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I have never had the pleasure of having a guest quite like Michele Blood. While still living in Australia Michele was an extremely successful rock singer. One day she was involved in a serious accident while being driven to a gig. Her body was, as she says, quite battered and damaged. What is fascinating about Michele's story is how she discovered the value of positive affirmations that she used to heal everything. As she will tell us, it is not just saying affirmations, but rather it is truly believing what you affirm. Her music became an integral of what healed her.   Since her recovery Michele has traveled the world singing and speaking on stage with many well-known motivational and thought leaders. I leave it to her to tell the story.   During our episode Michele will sing one of her affirmation songs. I hope you are as moved by the song in specific and by Michele's attitude and mindset in general. She teaches us a lot that can have nothing but positives effects on your life.   I look forward to hearing what you have to say about my time with Michele. Don't forget to get her free gifts available only to listeners of the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Is that cool or what?       About the Guest:   Michele Blood is a successful, multi-talented lady. Michele was a successful songwriter and rock singer in Australia and after a near-fatal car accident, while in the hospital with many serious injuries, she created positive Affirmation Songs which not only healed her body but also took her to worldwide success. These Affirmation songs affect the left and right hemispheres of the brain. Lyrics, the left hemisphere, and melody and music, the right hemisphere so the new, positive messages go straight to the subconscious mind. This is why millions of people worldwide have downloaded her Affirmation Power songs. These songs cover healing, success, money, joy, confidence and they uplift the person immediately.   In addition to creating Magnet To Success™ products and seminars worldwide, her public Mystical Success Events have been held in over 26 countries. Michele has co-written and created over 80 books, music CDs, audio programs, TV shows, and videos on positive thought, mind transformation, and meditation.   Michele has appeared in many hundreds of podcasts, radio/tv shows, and magazines globally. After many years of meditation, Michele's Kundalini awakened and transformed her consciousness. Michele now teaches others how to live a Successful Life and experience Divine Oneness. Her Mystical Experience webinars and live streams have assisted people globally to transform their lives to the positive. Through her Teachings and Light Transmissions, people awaken and experience what they say is the impossible. They awaken to their true purpose and begin their path to Enlightenment. She has shared the stage and worked with Bob Proctor, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Jack Canfield, and many other transformational Authors and Teachers. Her latest book is The Magic Of Affirmation Power and her latest album is Create Miracles: Positive Affirmation Songs To Harmonize your Mind and Life. And her new Magnet To Money App will uplift millions worldwide.   Ways to connect with Michele:   https://www.MicheleBlood.com and https://www.YouTube.com/MicheleBlood   Michele would also love to gift your viewers and listeners her audiobook, "The Magic Of Affirmation Power" Your audience can download this free gift by going to: https://www.MicheleBlood.com/UnstoppableMindset   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected, which is really the most fun part, meet today. We are getting close to winter, and I was just telling our guest Michele Blood that here in Victorville, we had a temperature this morning of 28 degrees. Ah, lovely weather, and all the weather people complain about now it's getting cold in the summer, they complained it was getting hot. You know, you can't please them. I don't know what to say. But anyway, one of these days they'll, they'll decide that whatever happens is is not a bad thing, and they'll stop complaining, I guess. But any Yeah. But anyway, Michele, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thank you.   Michele Blood ** 02:06 Michael, I've been so looking forward to this. After reading thunder dog, I'm going to be reading the second book, which is live like a guide dog. I'm going to be reading that after that, I absolutely adore this book, which I'm showing right now, Thunder dog. It's the most inspirational you can't put down. I mean, the lot not just getting down 78 floors of the Twin Towers, 78 stairs. I mean, oh my gosh. But then everything that you've done in between working with you know Ray Kurzweil, who's done a lot of things in the music industry as well. I mean, I mean, I recognized his name straight away. I'm like, all the all the things you've done. I'm just so impressed by and by your life and how inspiring you are. And I just wanted to say that to everybody, he's just, you gotta get his thunder dog book if you haven't yet, and his new book, live like a guide dog, for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 03:02 I I don't know. I haven't totally kept up, but I haven't heard that anybody has yet come out with a music synthesizer that is better than the Kurzweil synthesizer. Now, a lot has happened, and maybe technology has advanced, but I hadn't heard about anything that still beats it.   Michele Blood ** 03:20 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fair light was pretty amazing when that first came out, but the Kurzweil, I mean, all any rock musician knows about, yeah, when, when that was first put out, we were just like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, you know, because you could sample sounds and, you know, it was just   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 incredible, and it had a choir built into it. Yeah? Daylight though   Michele Blood ** 03:43 that was, I don't know, think back back in the day, it was like 100 grand, so that's probably why it wasn't as popular. Yeah,   03:51 a little more   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 expensive than the Kurzweil one. Yeah, yeah, our organist at our church where my wife and I went in Irvine and where we got married, our organist had a Kurzweil synthesizer and used it a lot, which was, which was kind of fun, and it was, it was very and it is very impressive all the way around, yeah, but   Michele Blood ** 04:13 just the innovative things that have been done, and you're helping ray with all of the things for the blind as well. Working with Stevie Wonder. I mean, it's just, you're very impressive. You're an inspiration. You are, you are absolutely amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 Well, thank you. But now let's talk about you a little bit. And you know, you can, you can.   04:35 I didn't show them the cover yet. You can   Michael Hingson ** 04:38 spread any rusty live like a guide dog. Live   04:42 like a guide dog. Needs to cover everybody   Michael Hingson ** 04:45 well, I hope people will get it. I'm we're excited about it. It's been out now a few months. It seems to be selling. We're excited. So hopefully people will read it, and it inspires people a little bit, because it's all about. Are trying to get people to learn to control fear and not let it overwhelm or, as I put it, blind you. But anyway, tell us a little bit about you. Why don't you start with the the early Michele, growing up, and some of those kinds of things, just kind of introduce us to you a little bit.   Michele Blood ** 05:16 Well, I'm an Aussie G'day, everyone. G'day, and, in Australia, I started in the entertainment industry at the age of five, on TV. What   Michael Hingson ** 05:27 did you do? Singing? Oh, okay,   Michele Blood ** 05:31 you know. And then eventually got my, you know, had lots and lots of rock bands I sang in, until eventually I got my own rock band that became very successful. I was the lead singer, one of the main songwriters and the manager of the band. We got a great record label. We had 1000s of people coming to our gigs, and it took years to get there, but I loved it so much, even though it's very, very tough at one stage, we toured for seven years, non stop. I mean, no Christmases, no New Year's eves, because when you're in a rock band, you get paid triple on New Year's Eves and Christmases and stuff like that. Yeah, and you can't really say no until you're really huge. You can't really say no to any gig, because you need the money road crew and sound equipment trucks and all the rest of it so but I feel that my life went on a whole new trajectory after a near fatal truck accident, actually, where I was a passenger with the truck, with all the equipment, and my body was so badly broken, I was In the hospital for months and months and months and and that was the best thing that ever happened to me. I know that sounds crazy everybody, but truly, when you have something so terrible happen to you, and it gets turned around by the Divine, whatever you choose to call God, it gets your life gets turned around and it makes all the difference in the world. So that's the first quarter.   Michael Hingson ** 07:08 Well, you know, I'm really curious. You said something that just strikes a question. I know that a lot of people try to go into entertainment, and most probably aren't overly successful. But why do you think that you were so successful? What what made the rock group and and what you did so successful? Do you have a notion? Well,   Michele Blood ** 07:30 I loved what I did. I was very, very good at it. And not everyone that's good at it's probably other singers in the world that are better than me. But the reason, I think because, I mean, I had some backing vocals on some records, and these female singers were incredible. And one of them said, I know you've got a good voice, Michelle, but I don't know why it's you and not me. And I said, I think it's just that I never gave up, and I was really disciplined. And I, you know, I wasn't on the road of sex, drugs and rock and roll. I was on the road of discipline, making sure that all my band members were disciplined. We worked really, really hard. We rehearsed a lot. We never blew out a gig, not once. So you get a good reputation. And so I started as a cover band, and we would sound just like the records at the time of the 80s. You know, people said that was a band. It sounded like a record. And so then we, we eventually started putting all our originals in and, I mean, I did crazy things, Michael, I went into Time Warner to the A and R people, because I wasn't getting any feedback. It's really hard. You can't just send them a tape to get you know for them to listen to your demos. So I went in as a tap dancing singing telegram. And so the secretary let me go straight into the office, and it was a board meeting, and because she thought, you know, their family had so I was there with flowers and a cake and my ghetto blaster, and I said, Then I did a tap dance, and I made up this song about, you know, this is, this is the band called clapping hands. You're going to sign them, you're going to want them. And this is a singing telegram saying, Listen to this. And that's how I got my first record deal.   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 Creativity counts for something. It   Michele Blood ** 09:25 sure does. You've gotta have guts. And I mean, I by the time I walked out of that office, though I was sweating, I was shaking, but you have to do something to be noticed. And and I think because I love people so much, and because I'd been singing professionally since I was five, which means I was singing for family members and everyone since I was two, apparently getting being put on the kitchen table. And I loved people being happy, and I love loved entertaining. I just loved it. So I think, you know, it's in the stars as. Well, I know that, but I think discipline, hard work eventually never giving up. Yeah, what can I say? Never giving up.   Michael Hingson ** 10:08 Did you so you were a cover band for for a while, which meant you were the the opening band for other groups,   Michele Blood ** 10:17 not as a cover band, well, with the opening act for the pretenders and in excess and a few other bands, when we were an original band and when we had a record label, right, when we had videos on TV, but before that, now we do five to 645, minute sets a night, and we would stay at one big venue, because in back in the day in Australia, the venues were huge for cover bands. You know, four to 6000 people could come in, and we got, we got very, very popular as a cover band, and then we went original. But it took a few years to do that, for sure, but   Michael Hingson ** 10:55 I remember, I remember bands back in the 50s and 60s, like the platters, who actually were the opening band, or they were the band that were the background for other singers. And then somebody discovered these guys really are better than that, and then they became their own group, right?   Michele Blood ** 11:14 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting how, how it all works out. But in Australia, it's, it's a tough way to tour when you're a female singer, because the Aussies are pretty tough. If they don't like you, you can get B canes thrown at you.   Michael Hingson ** 11:32 Yeah, well, those kinds of things do happen. Yes, they did in Boston for for sports teams. I've heard of fans really being very brutal to like the the Patriots. I think when Steve Grogan was the quarterback, they actually booed him off the field once. It was pretty amazing. I don't know. You know that's people take some of these things way too seriously. They   Michele Blood ** 12:00 certainly do. I like what Oscar Wilde said, Life is too serious to be taken seriously. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:09 yeah, absolutely, and, but people still do it way too much. Which is, which is, which is a problem. Yes, you know, we need people to take life more like Mark Twain and Will Rogers, by all means, but I can co so you, you had a serious car accident, and as you said, It really broke your body. Tell us what you'd like to about that and and then how you dealt with it, because that, that was quite a, I won't say miraculous. That was quite a marvel. You. You certainly took a leap along the way with that.   Michele Blood ** 12:50 Yeah, it's such a unique story. Um, after you know the truck driver we've been driving for 12 hours from Brisbane to Sydney, from gig to keep and he fell asleep at the wheel just as we reached Sydney, which happened to be right across the road from the best orthopedic specialist hospital in Sydney. So thank you, God, you know. Yeah, there's no coincidences. There's no accidents. So they got me over there really fast, and they had me straight into the operating theater straight away. So, I mean, I had tons of different operations, but what happened was, when you're in physics, that much physical agony, you pass out every few minutes. Mm, hmm, and, but I had people and fans and family putting on audio programs of things I'd never heard of before, Affirmations, Visualization, positive stuff, audio books by motivational speakers, inspirational speakers who I'd never heard of, but one of them got to me, and that was a book by a man called Napoleon Hill who wrote a book called Think and Grow Rich. Grow Rich, right? And I didn't care about hearing about all the millionaires in the 1920s in America, male men. Why would a female, young Australian rock singer care about that? But one chapter in there, he talks about how his infant son was born deaf, and he would go into his infant son's room every single night and do affirmations, auto suggestion, you hear perfectly. You are so loved, and you are so loving, etc, etc. And by the time a little boy was nearly four, he had 30% of his hearing. And you know when you hear something, I've never heard of this before, Michael, but you know when you hear something for the first time and you can feel it that it's true. You've just heard something that you know in the marrow of your bones that that what you've just heard is true. So I said, Okay, I can, I can run. Relate to that, because I know that I've used my willpower and my positive thinking, My I've never said I can't do something, I can't have that drama that I want. I've never said that. I've always said it's all possible. Everything is possible. You just go for it. Michelle, and I'd always just go for it. And I was brought up a Catholic, and I wasn't brought up. I wasn't one of those people that hated the church. I loved it. So I always had a belief in God, because I used to go to mass as a little girl every morning with the nuns, because I was in love with Jesus, and I just felt so I had that spirituality in me, and I think that is what is the backbone. You know, in the Bible, it says you do not need to be strong, because Christ is my strength. Christ is your strength. And so now I know that there is so much more to spirituality than just Jesus, but it was a great start for my faith in my life, and it gave me happiness. And so I just had faith that this would work, so I started doing affirmations, but they didn't work. Michael, do you want to know why? Sure, yeah, we've got nothing else to do today, right? May as well. Hear about it well, because neuroscience has proven now that affirmations do work and they do positive thinking actually does make a difference in the brain, in the neural pathways. It does make a difference. It ignites something in different parts of the brain. But back then, in the 80s, there was no way to prove that, you know, let alone Napoleon Hill in the 1920s but the thing that he said was most important is, you have to believe it. You have to emotionalize it. But I couldn't, Michael, I couldn't emotionalize it because I would. I started an affirmation, I am healed. I know I am. I love myself. I am my friend. Now, none of those things were true, so I thought, but I did want them to be true, so I thought, great, I've got the perfect affirmation. But when you are feeling like you're feeling and the world around you is presenting the opposite of what you're saying. Your doubting mind spits it out and does not believe it. So about two, three weeks after stopping the affirmations, because I realized that didn't work, I literally had a spiritual epiphany, and it was, you know, as a songwriter, Michelle, you can't get a song out of your head, even if it's songs you don't like or jingles from advertising agencies. So sing your affirmations. Because I got my brother to look around for affirmation songs, and he said, there isn't any such thing. And so I started singing,   Speaker 1 ** 17:58 I am healed. I know I am I love myself. I am my friend. And   Michele Blood ** 18:05 I recorded it onto a cassette player, just a cappella over and over again. And that was the beginning. As I listened to that all day, every day I would I started feeling better. I started getting back to my attitude, that I can, I can heal it just I realized. And when I was working with Bob Proctor, he said, you know why that works so well? He said, It's because the left side of the brain is where the lyrics are, the affirmation, the right side the melody. And this is even before I started recording it with music, and so you have a whole brain experience. And the song, the doubting mind doesn't have a chance to reject it. It goes straight into your subconscious mind. So that's how my positive affirmation pop music began. I didn't stop doing my other music, but I did have what they said, even the doctors, even though they're not supposed to say it, they said my healing was miraculous, and I ended up on TV shows and in the press and everything about what I'd been through for inspiration. And that's how it all began.   Michael Hingson ** 19:16 It. It really is all about believing it. It's it is so easy just to say something, but without truly accepting it, without truly making it a part of your psyche. However you do that it, it doesn't mean a thing. Don't   Michele Blood ** 19:32 mean a thing if it ain't something. Yeah, you do have to laugh. Do up, do up, do   Michele Blood ** 19:43 Yeah, music makes the world go around. It does,   Michael Hingson ** 19:48 and it's so important to take it seriously enough that you truly do believe it, and that's what's so important. And clearly. What you did? So what happened you you got healed completely, I would assume from all that had happened,   Michele Blood ** 20:10 yeah, I mean, it's still it still took quite a while, but I was determined. I put my high shoes back on, even though they said, don't wear high shoes. And I never intended for the affirmation music to go out to the public. My one of the band members that I work with and wrote songs with John Beatty, Hi John. He he's in person now in Australia with millions of kids, but anyway, we won't help me. Listens, yeah, we went into the recording studio and we, we just started recording. I was writing a lot of songs, and we started recording tons of different affirmation songs in all different styles of you know, from R and B to just rock to ballads to depending on what the song was about, whether it was about, you know, divine love, more of a ballad, more of a some of them just more rock and roll about being successful. And when the press found out that I was actually doing that, then promoters that were bringing out American very, very big, best selling authors asked me to come and do my singing affirmations in between these people. And I said, No, I don't want to do that. I'm not doing it for the public. Was just for me, my band, to have these positive thoughts. And they said, No, we love it. We love it. We want you to do it. And so my very first gig, I'm in Adelaide, Australia, and there's three and a half 1000 people on a Wednesday that came to this gig that paid over $300 each for a ticket, which I thought was absolutely insane. I didn't know what was going on. And I sang, and got all the people up on stage singing the affirmation songs with me made it into like a mini rock concert. And then Deepak Chopra, this, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Wayne Dyer, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Tony Alessandra, Stuart, wild, they were the speakers, and they couldn't believe it when we went out to dinner that night that I've never heard of any of them. And I said, I'm in rock and roll. I'm not in the motivational world. You know, I've, I've never heard of you, because I've not in that world. And so they were interested in how it all began, and they all said, You've got to tour this around the world. You've got to you've got to release these that we love. What you're doing. The audience is so different. Bob Proctor, though he was the one, when I ended up working with him, the promoters said, you know, we've got this female Australian singer, and you're going to be touring with her? And he said, No, I don't want a female singer. I'm Bob Proctor. I don't need that anyway. The first gig I did with him in Sydney, he came out after, and he said, I didn't want to work with a singer. And I said, good to meet you too, mate. I Yes, how are you? And he said, but no, all kidding aside. He said, My wife and I, Linda, we loved it so much, and I want you to work with me all over the world, doing events. So eventually I end up working with Bob for seven years straight. We wrote books together. We wrote music together. We put on huge events. I took over his business, looked after it, and from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where I lived, and then, and it was just very, very interesting. I've worked in over 26 countries, huge, huge audiences. The biggest one I had was 50,000 people. So to say it was successful is an understatement, but I didn't plan it. I didn't visualize it, but I had always planned on being very well known singer, but it but not to be a positive affirmation or singer. I'd never thought of that, but eventually I went off the grid and started really getting into deep meditation practice and getting off the that whole circuit, because I wanted to find God within me. So that was what happened. And it was fascinating, because it's like working with all these, you know, rock musicians, male rock musicians, and then working with all these male best selling authors. I'm like, I'm always surrounded by the boys.   Michael Hingson ** 24:46 Hey, whatever works, it's, it's interesting though, that that you, you did so much of this, I gather that the audience is reacted very positively, though. Um. Have you heard from anyone that it really changed their life to have encountered you and heard you when you performed? Oh,   Michele Blood ** 25:10 yeah, we've had millions. I mean, we've got a lot of our video video testimonials and testimonials from not just best selling authors that I've worked with, but also from people from all over the world. I work with people in over 32 countries now, and some of them don't even speak English, but they still feel the vibration. And a lot of different people have started singing my songs in different languages, which I allow anyone to do. They don't have to pay me a royalty. They can just do it whatever brings positivity to the world and change within someone, so that they can get out of that rabbit hole. Because you're, you know, your whole podcast about unstoppable mindset. Well, this is such a a great new beginning is to just have to listen to a song. Yeah? And, you know, there's so I've got hundreds of songs to choose from, so it's a good it's a good way to start, because music, you know, like I always say to people, if you have the blues, even though I like blues and I think it's brilliant, but if you have the blues, probably best not to listen to the blues. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 26:21 definitely, definitely true. Well, of course, one has to ask if, if you have one, not necessarily long, but that you want to sing for us all.   Michele Blood ** 26:38 Yeah, I can. I didn't have anything set up. But if you'd like to chat for a minute, I'll just get something set up for you. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 26:45 okay, we can, we can do that. I do. I do agree with you that if you've got the blues, you don't want to listen to the blues. I I personally like happy stuff. I like musicals, especially when they're they're happy musicals. I've always enjoyed that. I do listen and read science fiction and sometimes read some some pretty horrific things. But I've noticed later in my life I'm doing less of that because I, although I like mysteries, I don't like nowadays really graphical or very graphic murder mysteries and things like that, and so people call the kinds of things that I probably typically like cozy mysteries. I wouldn't say that Rex Stout books about neural wolf the private detective are necessarily cozy, but by the same token, they're not the most graphic things, and I've always enjoyed them because they're puzzles. And I love mysteries that are really puzzles that I can become engaged in and try to solve, and musicals I like just because they're fun and and they're they're very happy for the most part. And so again, they're, they're very relevant to to want to listen to. So I, I tend to do that. So it's a lot of fun to keep in the the spirit of reasonably happy and stay away from the blues. Okay,   Michele Blood ** 28:17 I've got something set up now, alright, saying low battery, but oh, sorry. What happened there? There it is. There it is. This song is called synergy. I wrote it with Bob Proctor. Can you hear the music?   Michael Hingson ** 28:35 It's a little low, but yes, go ahead. Better. Yep,   Speaker 1 ** 28:40 there's a way to get it moving, to make it happen, to get high. Can barely flooded in the clouds, join thoughts and let them fly. When your mind joins in with others and all your thoughts to one a US. Energy begins to sizzle and it's energy positive energy synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy turn into synergy. Together, creative power will start to flow. Things begin to happen. You're a church with Synergy. Red Hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy.   Michele Blood ** 29:55 You shine and become magnetic, you'll draw the good. People out the world will be a better place, and everyone will start to shout, face to face, building   Speaker 2 ** 30:12 energy. Taste. The taste is this energy, thoughts, launching into one, a new boss have become this is synergy.   Speaker 1 ** 30:23 It's synergy, red hot energy, positive energy, delta, synergy, it's synergy.   Michael Hingson ** 30:34 There you go. Now   30:36 that's Bob Proctor. Wrote the lyrics for that.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 But, um, who was the male voice near the end? Oh, the   Michele Blood ** 30:44 male voice was a American guy in who was singing covers in Kuala Lumpur when I lived there, Ah, okay, and I just hired him to come and and do that in the studio in Kuala Lumpur, yeah. But the other affirmation songs are more simple, but they're still got, you know, like a good dance beat, some of them are ballads greeting the day with love in your heart. It just depends on where you want to take your mind that day. Do you want to open your heart? Do you want to be like listen to the persistent song. Do you want to feel more successful? You listen to the success song, which is like 50s, rock and roll. So they're all different. They're all different product, production. So it was a lot of fun changing the different styles for each song depending on the lyrics.   Michael Hingson ** 31:34 Well, if people want to get those affirmation songs and so on, are they available for people to get? Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 31:41 all my albums are sold all over the world, and iTunes, of course, Amazon. My own website is magnet to success. Com. My YouTube channel is Michelle blood.com forward slash YouTube. But I've got lovely giveaways for your for your audience, if you'd like me to share that. Well, we will   Michael Hingson ** 32:03 do that a little bit, okay, but I really appreciate you seeing synergy. I will be, I will be saying that to myself the rest of the day, which is fine, but you know, you mentioned the blues and so on. So here's a question, if somebody is really down and really frustrated, how can they change their life to the positive?   Michele Blood ** 32:31 Well, first of all, even if they are really down, you've got to know, no matter what is going on in your life, that everything is possible for you, and that you can get out of that rabbit hole, and that you are you might feel alone, but you're never alone. Whether you believe in God or you don't believe in God, there is a God and you are looked after. You can pray without begging just giving. One of the most wonderful things you can do is just to start to write down what you're thankful for immediately. If you can say thank you divine, or just thank you for my beautiful life, and if then you can begin to write down what a beautiful life would look like for you, just start writing it down, even though it's not true yet. Like, let's start thinking about what can be done. What do you what sort of friends do you want? What sort of lifestyle do you want? You know, start thinking of others as well. Whenever we can do something, if we can do something every single day that makes somebody else happy, whether it's feeding the homeless or sending funny kitten videos to your friends. You if you can do something every day that brings happiness to somebody else or takes them out of suffering, well, then it'll take you out of yourself. Because if, if it's something emotional that you're going through, that means that you're going to sometimes we do need to go through the emotion, particularly if we're mourning the loss of something or someone that's important and healthy. But it is also important to stop thinking about ourselves so much and look at what can be done for the world. I love I love Saint Vincent de Paul. I love the Salvation Army so much, so you can tithe to them anonymously. If you want to do something you don't know what to do, even if it's just a buck, five bucks, it's really good to tithe to charities that are doing good in the world. And I'm sure there's a charity that you could recommend to us, Michael, that will help with the blind. If you got one, you can recommend?   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Well, I think there, there really are a number of of places to donate. One of my favorites is the National Federation of the Blind, nfb.org, because it's, it's a consumer organization that fights for the rights of. Of blind people around the United States and actually around the world. And it's the NFB is the largest consumer organization of blind people in this country and, in fact, in the world. But it has made such a difference in the lives of blind people. For example, through the National Federation of blind we completely changed the life insurance industry that refused to provide life insurance for any blind person up until the mid 1980s and when it was finally discovered that they were denying us, not because they had any evidence and actual mathematical models that proved that we were a risk, which is what they're supposed to do. They were doing it strictly out of prejudice. And so now every state in the union, because of the Federation, has actually passed legislation that says you can't discriminate unless you've got real evidence. Well, it's been 40 years, and nobody's come up with evidence that we're a higher risk simply because we're blind or other persons with disabilities, their disabilities directly make them a higher risk. So, you know, that's that's definitely one of my favorite organizations to support. And   Michele Blood ** 36:13 nfb.org everybody. Nfb.org I've written it down for me to start tithing there as well. And,   Michael Hingson ** 36:20 you know, and there, there are so many others. Another organization that I tend to like, it's a very small organization, is advocates for service animal partners asap.org, and and it fights for the rights of people with a variety of disabilities who use service animals, service dogs, to be able to take their dogs with them, where wherever they go, because we're denied. So awesome. So I like asap.org as well.   Michele Blood ** 36:51 I love what you did. I think it was you and Ray and his wife. You were going to a particular restaurant and a a suity maitre d snotty, snooty, wouldn't let you in with your blind dog, with your with your guide dog, right? And and she was really upset the wife. And so you end up gathering quite a few of your friends that are blind, that have guide dogs, and you went in, and he had to oblige and let you all in. And everyone was very nice to you. So that was really good, because that it, it's, it's illegal for them to say you can't come in with your guide dog. It is   Michael Hingson ** 37:28 illegal, and it has been illegal for a long time. One of my favorite stories, which really wasn't a bad story at all, there used to be a restaurant in Boston in Quincy Market called Durgan Park. And Durgan Park was was basically family style, although around the outside of the room they had tables for four but you couldn't sit at one of those tables unless you had four people. Well, we came in one night and there were only three of us and my dog, Holland, and the the host has said, You know what, I'm going to make an exception and let you sit at this table for four so Holland was under the table, and there were three of us, and the waitress came up, and the waitresses at Durgan Park are known as snots. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're supposed to be really rough and all that. It's just part of the schtick. But she came up and she said, What are you people doing sitting here? And he said, well, the host has put us here. No, she didn't. You're just sitting here. No, she did. It's because of the dog under the table. No, there's no dog under the table. You're not going to make me fall for that. And she walks away, and then she comes back and she said, you're not supposed to be sitting here and all that. I said, Look, there's a dog under the table. Take a look. And it took a while, but I finally got her to look, and there's Holland staring at her with these big brown eyes when she lifts up the the tablecloth, and the next thing I know, she comes back with a big plate. Jurgen Park has very good sized portions of frying rib and says, Can I give this to the dog, oh, and, and normally, I would never do that, but in the for to promote goodwill, I said, Okay, which Hall of love? And, you know, I knew the food there was good, but, you know, it was, it was just one of those great stories. But, yeah, all too often that isn't the way it goes. We see so many challenges with Uber, for example, so many drivers refuse to take blind people or other people with disabilities who have service dogs. It's against the rules, and they say, but it's our car. No, you signed a contract that said that you are going to transport the public, so it is illegal for you to deny us. But they do, and that's one of the things that ASAP, for example, is really working on to address, to get Uber, to recognize that it has to enforce the law like everyone else. But it's a challenge. People come from all sorts of different points of view. You know, with   Michele Blood ** 39:59 the name like. Uber. How could they do that? They're not being very Uber.   40:04 Well, there you go.   Michele Blood ** 40:07 Wow. That's interesting in this day and age. Absolutely, it continues all too often. So many people have slipped into something more comfortable, like a coma. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 40:18 Now you and your team have created an app. I think it's called what magnet to money. Tell us about that. Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 40:24 it was interesting. Thanks, Michael. I wanted to do because sometimes people like you were talking earlier, how do they get out of their you know, their depression, or whatever they're going through that they're feeling, how do they get out of that rabbit hole? So if you're feeling that way, and your mindset is in a negative state of mind, and you're emotionally not feeling well, well, then it's very, very challenging for you to want to put on some positive, you know, affirmation music. Because I know when I was in the hospital, if people came in and they were too chirpy. I would couldn't wait for them to go because I wasn't oscillating at that frequency. Yeah, you know. So they're all Oh, hi. And so I thought, wouldn't it be great if we had an app and it would just play? As you know, they can choose the notifications how often it will play. And so Polly fella, Trevor Rogers and Johnny and Dara and myself, we worked really hard, especially Holly fella, to develop this app. And it took about two and a half years to develop it. And it's got morning meditations. It's got tons of affirmations with music underneath. It's got a sleep program to help. As they're sleeping, people are sleeping, I'm very softly saying affirmations and positive you know, feed, feed to their minds. And it's also got notifications, so the magnet to money song will play whatever they want to, so they don't have to even remember to and eventually, like someone the other day, said she was in a bank and she had the magnet to Money App, and she had it as her ringtone as well. And she's in this big bank that was hardly anybody in there, but it was quite chamber ish, Echo ish, and she said, and her phone was on pretty loud. It started, I'm a magnet to money came on really loud, and everyone started laughing. They're like, well, that's sort of, I guess, you know, a good thing to play in a bank. Yeah, works. So, yeah, the magnet to Money App is fantastic. App. It's got so much on it, and it's got an audio book you get for free from myself and Bob Proctor called magnet to money through the sea of unlimited consciousness, one one of our books that we did as an audio book, and we thought we've also got a free app, because that magnet to Money App is only about, I think it's $4 or something A month, but the affirmation power app is free, and on that tons of affirmations, plus my affirmation music videos is on there as well. So that's free, if anybody wants that.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 So yeah, so is that available with Android and Apple and iPhone? No,   Michele Blood ** 43:17 just, just apple at the moment, because to develop for an Android is much more complicated because there are so many different companies, yeah, yes, whereas Apple, it's just the iPhone, but we do intend to, but it's, you know, we've got the manifestation video app as well, and we've got a New App coming out, which is all my audio books. And I'm doing a new audio book every month, not just my books on audio, but other people's books on audio as well. And then the next step after that, is a prayer app, talking about prayer, how to pray, and for me, teaching people the power of prayer. So it's really lovely to be able to do apps that have got positive, you know, the very, very, you know, if they were to buy all those individual products from me to cost hundreds dollars, and this way it's just a few dollars a month all free for them to get all my positive songs and books and all that sort of thing.   Michael Hingson ** 44:17 How do people search for these apps that in the in the app store. I think   Michele Blood ** 44:22 that if they just go under, look under Michelle blood, okay, under my name, yeah, okay, they'll just come up. I   Michael Hingson ** 44:29 will, I will be doing that this afternoon. I think that's that's pretty cool. You know, in in our world today, we become so materialistic in so many ways, but at the same time, a lot of people have really become students of your affirmations and so on. How did they really become students? And I think even more important, one of the questions that I would ask is. How does it really transform, or did it really transform people's consciousness and set them on a road toward a more spiritual path? Because I think in so many ways, we don't see people doing that, and at the same time, I know there are a lot of people who do, but by the same token, there's so many people who go, oh, this is just all pokem. It doesn't really mean anything, but that's just not true.   Michele Blood ** 45:24 Well, I think it's, it's an interesting question to answer, because there are so many different types of people in the world, and we can't expect to change people. They have to, you know, I don't want anyone to suffer. Michael, first of all, so I think having positive thoughts in their head is going to actually make them think less of themselves, believe it or not, these the way the lyrics are done, and more of joy and sharing and caring about other people, because it is so important to to do that, because people, if they get too much into themselves, Like I say to people, don't buy anything if you're buying it. For someone else to be to compliment you, that's a really good way of deciding what you're going to purchase in your life. If you're doing it to you know, to say, Oh, I've got this really nice car. Look how great I am. But get it if you want a good car. Get it because you want a nice, safe car that's good for the environment, but don't get it so that you will impress other people. Unless you're a real estate agent, they do need good cars, apparently, to drive people around, yeah, I guess so. Drive people around,   Michael Hingson ** 46:35 but, or drive people crazy, yeah,   Michele Blood ** 46:37 but. But I also think it's important that that if you want to, you can't tell someone to be more spiritual. They have to get into a positive frame of mindset first. Because when you're in a positive frame of mindset, you start feeling more of a heart blow, more love. And even if you don't believe in God, you believe in love everybody, I know you do, so whether it's your animal that you love, because every animal is an angel, whether it's nature, smelling the remembering to stop and smell the flowers, remembering to not let yourself complain. Complaining will take you down a rabbit hole of absolute negativity and please. People remember, the only reason you're complaining is because you're feeling fear about losing something or not getting something that you want. And so if you can stop complaining for 28 days straight, you will change your life. And I know that sounds impossible, but many people can do it, because I've seen my students do it. So if you can stop complaining and stop half if you're halfway through a complaint about something or someone or politics or Trump or whatever in the hell it is, stop yourself halfway through and just say, Why am I complaining? And people are complaining because they're in fear. If you can stop and be mindful enough to say, I'm complaining because I'm afraid of something, and I don't want to face it and find out what you're afraid of, the thing that you're afraid of will dissipate. Yeah, it really will. So I think that's a really good place to start listening to the positive songs, for sure, going to every single unstoppable mindset podcast you possibly can go to reading Michael's books, and also, just knowing that you can get out of that rabbit hole, it is totally possible, and I've seen it in people from all different cultures and religious backgrounds all over the world. I've traveled to so many different countries, and have so many different audiences, and everybody wants to be loved and be loved in return. And everybody wants to see other people happy at their core. They really do. We don't want to make people unhappy, do you? So stop complaining.   Michael Hingson ** 49:07 You know, it's, it's interesting that you, you talk about all this, one of the things that we talk a lot about, and you'll see it and live like the guide dog, is that we need to become more introspective. Because if we do and we really look at ourselves daily, and, for example, look at what worked today, what didn't work. Why didn't it work? You eventually get to what was I really afraid of? And if you really stop to think about that and go, I didn't need to be afraid of that, your life will change, which is really, as you're pointing out, what it's all about.   Michele Blood ** 49:44 Excellent, excellent. I'm looking forward to reading that as well, and then I've already told everyone to get thunder dog on all my lists. But now I'll be, after I read the next one, I'll be telling them to read that as well, because we're on the same page. Michael.   Michael Hingson ** 49:59 Tell me a little bit about something I've read in your bio, how you went from affirmations to a full kundalini awakening.   Michele Blood ** 50:09 Well, when I was working with Bob Proctor in Asia, I was saying to him one day, I feel this heart blow like I feel like my heart is out of my chest, and I feel such deep love. And it's not for any person, place or thing. It's for everything, actually, but it's beyond that. It's divine. And he said, you're looking for an enlightened teacher. That's what you need. And I said, Well, where do you find an enlightened teacher, and what exactly is that? And he got me to read Autobiography of a Yogi by Hara mahansa Yogananda. And I'd read it before, but I didn't really get it like I did this time when I read it, and I realized that enlightenment wasn't just one person. People can actually meditate and go into higher states of consciousness, but I wasn't thinking of how is an enlightened being around in this modern world? That can't be right? Because I it must be like unless it's Asia maybe. He said, I don't know. He said, I did have a Canadian man who was enlightened, who taught me for three years before he died, left the body. And he said, you just have to pray for it and know that the teacher and the student will find each other. It took me 14 years of searching all over the world, and eventually I found an enlightened teacher in all places America, and I decided to go off the grid, and I really had to to study with her as a student, because she didn't like us to be on Facebook or social media. She said, you don't want attention on yourself when you're studying with me, because you want to be able to go in deeply. Yeah. So I went off. I studied with her for 12 years, but after the first few years, I went into a full awakening myself, never expecting that. Didn't expect it to happen to me. I thought, how could a rock singer in Australia, have a kundalini awakening, but I did, and now I love to teach mysticism and spirituality and meditation practice to students from all over the world. And I love to do it. I think there's so many tools in the toolbox of life, whatever sort of personality you have, whether you're extremely religious or you just want to have more positive outcome. You want to become healthier. I think meditation practice is good for everybody. You do not have to be religious or think of spirituality to enjoy a quiet mind. It'll slow down your blood pressure. It will give you pump your blood, it'll stop your mind from going down a million rabbit holes where your senses take you. I just think meditation practice is a miraculous, privileged thing to do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:53 I agree. And you know, one of the things that it's a little bit off topic for what you just said, but we were talking earlier about people praying and looking for so many things. I'm amazed at how many people pray to God, telling God what they want and what they think they need. And I'm sitting there whenever I hear about that today, especially, I think, Wait a minute, God already knows that what you need to do is to listen to get the response, and thank God for the response, but people just don't do that. I'm just so amazed at at that. But it's it is so true that we spend too much time not doing the thing that we really need to do, which is listening and talking with God, not talking to God.   Michele Blood ** 53:46 Yeah, that's why I I'm loving recording the new prayer app, because I explain to people what prayer actually is. It's not If you do this for me, God, I'll start, stop eating pizza, yeah? Or maybe trade off. So I teach people what prayer actually is, and it's, it's really the most sacred thing and beautiful thing, and it will uplift you, even if you just, I've got a section where they I'm praying for others, so they can just listen to any different topic of what type of prayer, but the main thing for me was explaining, doing the introduction of what prayer is and how to pray, because so many people have no idea what prayer really is, that communion with your higher self, and once you get to understand what that is, then you can hear that still, small voice you can literally hear through. Ah, your intuition becomes stronger you can and intuition is you being in tune with your higher self. And your higher self is omniscient wisdom. It created everything so it knows what. To tell you to do, and it will bring into your experience everything when you accept, when you can be open and receptive to receive and to give, just sort of let yourself go, just surrender to that divine Higher Self, when you can learn how to do that. That's another thing that I do on this prayer app is teach you what surrender really means and how you can do it. It's not taking your willpower away from you, because everyone that's a gift that we've been given. So we can make good choices in life, sometimes bad choices, but we can use our willpower to get ourselves out of that rabbit hole. So thank you for asking that. Michael, it's   Michael Hingson ** 55:41 extremely important to be able to do that. Well, you mentioned earlier that you had gifts for people listening to this podcast. Love it if you tell us about that,   Michele Blood ** 55:52 yes, yummy gifts. If you go to Michelle. Blood com, it's spelled M, I, C, H, E, L, E, B, L, O, O, O, d.com, forward slash unstoppable mindset. We've called that. We've made that link especially for Michael's podcast. Just for your people, they will get the audio version of one of my favorite books I've written called the magic of affirmation power audio book. They will get that for free, but in that audio book has tons of affirmations you can repeat after me, links to some of my music for free. You'll also get a six week mysticism course, and there are other things as well. I can't remember what they are right now, but they're all on that link.   Michael Hingson ** 56:37 But Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset. I thank you for the otter. Appreciate that. Well now if people want to come hear you, I know you do live events and you do zoom events and so on. How can we learn about that? How can people do that?   Michele Blood ** 56:57 Well, they can go to request Divine light.com to find out what is my next event, because I have free events, a lot a lot of free zoom events people can come to, and you'll just get to meet so many happy, lovely people from so many different countries. And we just have a blast together. And you'll be very, very uplifted after everyone, because everyone that comes on are just, we seem to be attracting, over the years, just people that are really, sincerely wanting a better life and to do it, to do good in the world. And I just love them all so much. So if they go to request Divine Light com, they can see where my next free event will be. I mean, it's on Zoom, but I mean when it will be   Michael Hingson ** 57:46 right? Request, divine light. Com, cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on. And obviously people can go to Michelle blood, com, and there's a lot there, I would assume as well. So hopefully people will go, go check out everything that's there, and we'll take this seriously, because I think there is so much that you have offered. We've had a number of people on unstoppable mindset who talk about everything from reg a to Eastern medicine, meditation and and so many things. They all can't be totally wrong. So from my perspective, they are not wrong. But by the same token, it's fun to be able to get a chance to to have you on. We'll have to do this again, and I'm going to certainly go download the apps and put them on my nice little iPhone and start taking advantage of them. But I really appreciate you coming on and and being with us for an hour today. Well,   Michele Blood ** 58:51 Michael, thank you for the books that you've written and everything that you've done in the world. I just think you're just an inspiration and just a lovely, lovely man. So thank you. It's, it's lovely getting to know you. And I'm just going to tell everyone about these books, because they're amazing, well written as well. Just really, really good.   Michael Hingson ** 59:13 Well, thank you. So, when are you going to do a podcast? I'm going   Michele Blood ** 59:17 to do a podcast with a man called just I just had a brain fart. Thomas Miller, uh, at the moment, his podcast is called subconscious mind mastery, and he's interviewed me quite a few times. We met in person, and I love his outlook on life, about really not saying no to anything that's mystical. And so we're going to start one next year together. He's already got his own, but this will be a different one where we'll go a little deeper, a deeper dive into mysticism. I think we're going to call it well,   Michael Hingson ** 59:55 if he needs a guess for his existing podcast, if he has guests or. You guys have your podcast together. If you ever want a guest, I volunteer. So I'll just, Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:05 I'll tell him today. Goodness, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:10 I'm, I'm always, I'm always open for that. Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:13 I'll tell him today. Yeah, because you, I love you.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:18 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this at least half as much as I did, hopefully as much as I did. This has been a lot of fun and educational, I think, in so many ways, to help us deal with our outlooks on life. I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Please feel free to email me. Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast website, w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We really value your reviews. But of course, love the five star ones, so if we can, we would really appreciate it if you give us a five star review and and say, say good things about us and and go off and definitely visit Michelle's pages. And, of course, being very prejudiced, go to Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset and get some free gifts from her. And if you know of anyone who you think would be a good guest, and Michelle you as well. I'm always looking for podcast guests, so okay, don't hesitate to to refer people to us. We appreciate that a whole lot. So once again, I want to thank you for being here. Michelle, this has been a lot of fun. Thank   Michele Blood ** 1:01:45 you. Michael, God bless you. More love everyone. More Love   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:54   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Send us a textDaisy makes a sacrifice for Renee. Renee's Dad starts to decline and chaos ensues in Victorville!Visit our website: www.VanillawithaSideofKink.comInstagram: VanillawithaSideofKinkAlso, you can learn more about our Shibari Rope Bondage business at www.AllTiedUpSanDiego.comAnd our new operation, the All Good Things Center for Inclusivity and Acceptance. Fetlife.com Group: Vanilla with a Side of Kink - The Podcast

We return to Bear Country with another Life in the Fast Lane and another minute driving through Shangri-La in Tokyo Drift, where Joe talks about Victorville, Calif. and Arizona oil. We watch (twice, accidentally) the Haagen-Dazs Super Bowl commercial and talk about a live Fast & Furious-related event in NYC. We Run the VIN and continue to learn who Vin Diesel is -- and what he most cares about. We reflect more on the future of BDWHAPFY, hear Jerry's recap of 2 Fast 2 Furious, and talk about Heart Eyes and more Best Picture nominees. Email us: family@cageclub.me Visit our Patreon page at patreon.com/2fast2forever.  Show your support at the 2 Fast 2 Forever shop! Extra special shout-out to Alex Elonen, Nick Burris, Brian Rodriguez (High School Slumber Party), Michael McGahon, Lane Middleton, Jason Rainey, Wes Hampton, Mike Gallier, Josh Buckley (Whole Lotta Wolves), Michael Moser, Christian Larson, Terra New One, Aaron Woloszyn, and Randy Carter for joining at the “Interpol's Most Wanted” level or above! Intro music by Nico Vasilo. Interlude and outro music by Wes Hampton.

Holy mother of all fucks, what a goddamn shitstorm of an episode! The Kid A.G., Red Eye, and Blood Siren yank you by the balls through a fucking insane rollercoaster of strip club filth. We opened with some fucking throwback memories of strip club dives, recounting horror stories of ancient whores with more wrinkles than a shar-pei on acid, to the divine fucking moments with dancers who could make the Pope whip out his rosary beads. Blood Siren blew the fucking roof off with her first strip club adventure in Victorville, where she got more hands-on experience with human anatomy in one night than during her entire fucking education. They dug into the bullshit debate about whether strip clubs are about to get snuffed out by the woke-ass, virtue-signaling pricks, or if they'll just burrow back into the glorious, sleazy underworld where all the real, unfiltered action goes down. But let's not forget, it wasn't just about the titties, we got into some pee-fest, discussing the weird, twisted, but fucking brilliant moments of bonding over piss, and how sharing a piss bucket can either make you soulmates or give you stories so wild they're perfect for your next drunken confession. And just when you thought your brain couldn't handle any more, they slam dunked you with some batshit insane Michigan laws about pets, which could land Red Eye in the slammer for loving pussy - and I mean cat pussy - too damn much. Tune in, laugh your ass cheeks off, and remember - the best fucking moments are the ones that would make your mom disown you. Catch you next time, and go deep, you glorious, depraved fuckers.

Robert Moment was born in Virginia and basically has spent his entire life there except for college which took him to Maryland. Robert received a degree in Business and, after college, he went to work in corporate America. He worked for a number of large corporations including Xerox in the 1990s. He tells us some of his experiences in the corporate world and how they eventually caused him to shift gears and start his own coaching and consulting business.   Today he is a recognized authority and he has authored several books. His newest one coming out shortly is "Believe in Yourself You Got This".   What I like about talking with Robert is his down to earth direct manner of presenting ideas. As he says fairly early in our discussion, his parents taught he and his brother to believe in themselves. Robert discusses with us this concept of self belief and how it differs from ego. As he says, his father taught him that “ego” stands for “edging God out”. Pretty clever. Robert gives us a number of practical tips and lots of advice we can put to use in our daily lives. I hope you will like what Robert Moment has to say.       About the Guest:   As a sought-after authority in leadership development, Robert Moment draws upon a wealth of Fortune 500 experience and certified coaching expertise to unlock the extraordinary in leaders and organizations. 1. Leadership Development Authority: Robert Moment is a leading authority in executive coaching and leadership development. Leveraging over 15 years of experience and deep insights from Fortune 500 environments, he empowers individuals and organizations to reach new heights. As an ICF Certified Executive, Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, Career, and Peak Performance Coach, his expertise spans diverse leadership domains. 2. Startup Success Catalyst: Robert holds unique expertise in nurturing cybersecurity, healthcare, fintech, and critical infrastructure startups, guiding them through scaling challenges to achieve revenue growth. His tailored approach fosters sustainable success for these firms within competitive markets. 3. Peak Performance and Emotional Intelligence Focus: Specializing in peak performance coaching, Robert works with CEOs, executives, and high performers, empowering them to lead empathetically with high emotional intelligence. This creates collaborative and thriving work environments. As a certified practitioner, he utilizes the Social + Emotional Intelligence Profile-Self (SEIP) ® Assessment to facilitate targeted development plans. 4. Author and Comprehensive Coaching Methodology: Robert's books, including "CEO Coaching for Cybersecurity Growth" and "Believe in Yourself You Got This," offer practical strategies for professional growth. His comprehensive coaching methodology uniquely blends experience with modern assessment tools for results-driven, transformative experiences. 5. Executive Development and Career Coaching: Robert collaborates with executives and rising leaders to refine leadership skills and drive organizational success. He assists individuals at various career stages through fulfilling transitions. By identifying strengths, clarifying goals, and aligning values, he ensures informed decisions for long-term career satisfaction.   If you're ready to unlock your potential, achieve peak performance, and create the leadership legacy you envision, Robert Moment is the coach to guide you there.   Ways to connect with Robert:   Robert@LeadershipCoachingandDevelopment.com The Moment Leadership Coaching Group 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102, #158 Arlington, VA 22201 LinkedIn  https"//www.linkedin.com/in/robertmomentleadershipcoach      About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello to you all, wherever you happen to be, I am your host, Michael Hingson, and this is unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you joined us today. Our guest is Robert moment, and Robert is a sought after authority and leadership development he's written a number of books. He's a coach, and all sorts of other kinds of things. Talking to coaches are is always really kind of fun. I learn a lot. I got all this free coaching. What can I say? It's It's always interesting and relevant to hear different points of view and get to put everything in perspective. So I'm really glad to have the opportunity this time to talk to Robert, and he does a lot of leadership development, and interested in getting into that and talking about him as well. So enough of that, Robert, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Robert Moment ** 02:15 Well, thank you, Michael for the opportunity. I'm excited.   Michael Hingson ** 02:20 Well, we're really looking forward to talking with you and learning a lot. I hope Tell me a little bit about the early Robert, kind of growing up. And let's start with that just kind of where you came from and all that stuff. Well,   Robert Moment ** 02:33 the early Robert, I grew up about 30 minutes outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, and I graduated, really, I would say I'm a country boy at heart humble beginnings. And my father, he was ex military, and one of the things he taught my brother and I, I'm two years younger than my brother, was self disciplined, and to always believe in yourself. That's something that my parents ingrained in us, you know, early on, and that's something, you know, it's like, it's in my DNA, and that's what I communicate to my clients. And even when I was in corporate America, I was in corporate America for over 20 years working for Fortune 500 companies, like your Xeroxes of the world, Citigroup, manpower. And then then I transitioned into leadership and executive   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 coaching. So where did you go to college? I   Robert Moment ** 03:24 went to college. Now it's called Washington at Venice University. It's about, I would say, 20 minutes outside of Washington, DC, in a place called Takoma Park, Maryland. And my degree is in business administration. But   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 you're mostly stuck in a rut, aren't you? You've lived in Virginia basically all your life.   Robert Moment ** 03:43 Yes, I have now. I've traveled globally, but yes, my, my my home base is, yes, Virginia. Now   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 I have to tell all of you listening that before we started this, Robert was saying that he loves the spring and summer and is not a winter person. So I'm not quite sure I totally understand the paradox, but there you are. But no, it's it's fine. You could be further north in Massachusetts and Maine and New Hampshire, and get a whole lot more snow than you get in Virginia. You   Robert Moment ** 04:16 know what, Michael, when I see when I watch TV, whether it's, you know the weather channel, or CNN, and I see the snow in Boston, upstate New York and Rochester and Syracuse. I am glad I'm in Northern Virginia.   Michael Hingson ** 04:31 Boy, it was interesting, if you remember from the Weather Channel, last year here out in Southern California, we had crazy, crazy weather in Mammoth and some of the areas around here, they had, you know, overall, more than, like, 50 feet of snow, and it eventually went away. But we had incredible amounts of snow in Tehachapi and Wrightwood, the snow was so high that a. Cover the roofs, and some roofs collapsed because they couldn't take all of the snow, and the roads were blocked so people couldn't get in and out, which also made it very interesting. And we here in Victorville, were down in a little valley. We're about 20 850 feet above sea level. We had two or three inches of snow one Saturday afternoon, and that   Robert Moment ** 05:23 was it. Wow, I did see that. I saw that. And I said, you know, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, it was, it was dangerous, treacherous. Yeah, it really paralyzed a lot of people, because they couldn't leave the house, homes.   Michael Hingson ** 05:38 Yeah, they couldn't at all. And the the thing is, like mammoth, I think it was mammoth didn't even close their ski season until last August. Well, this year, it's different. They're closing Sunday. Still, it's a while. Well, it is, it is, yes, so you said you worked for a lot of corporations for quite a while. So you started that, I assume, right out of college, because you had the business background, and what did you do for them?   Robert Moment ** 06:07 Well, I was like, for instance, corporate executive, sales, business development, account manager, a lot of titles, but I learned a lot, especially back then, like Xerox Corporation, you went through a lot of training, yeah, and that training that really, I was able to leverage it and, you know, transfer to other corporations. And one of the things I learned, it really wasn't so much that when I transferred to other organizations, because that was in telecommunications. I was in insurance. Manpower is more about human development. It was really about building people skills. Yeah, people skills, and then business acumen, because you can learn the products and the services, but to be able to build relationships. That was really my, one of my strongest suits.   Michael Hingson ** 07:04 Well, Xerox information systems, back a long time ago, in part, began because they acquired a company. I worked for Kurzweil Computer Products. So I I was sort of assimilated into Xerox, because I worked for Kurzweil, and then Xerox bought Kurzweil. They wanted the technology, though, they didn't really have as much interest in the people as demonstrated by the fact that within a couple of years, all the salespeople who worked for Kurzweil pre Xerox takeover were all invited to leave. And you know those those things happen, and I think it's a serious mistake when companies do that, because they lose all the tribal knowledge and all the information and the background that people have. And like you talk about the fact that you learned so much about people skills and interpersonal dynamics as you went along. And I think the companies really lose a lot of that when they buy a company and they assimilate it, and then they get rid of the people,   Robert Moment ** 08:10 you know, I'm glad you wanted you touched on that, because I'm working with a potential client and they want to buy the smaller cybersecurity startup. And when you do that, a lot of times, you know, you gotta look at the culture, and when you mention that, they let people go, you know, a lot of times good people who've been there, whether it's, you know, five years, 10 years, you know, that's a lot of intellectual property that's walking out the door, and a lot of times, for instance, they know that customer is better than the person who's acquiring them. Why do companies do that? You know, sometimes you know they want to cut costs, but cutting costs sometimes is not good business sense, because usually the company who takes over is the one who's going to let the existing employees go in, right? Because they want to bring down people. But when I want to talk to the CEO, you know, if he becomes they become a client. That's something I want to warn and caution, caution him, you know, don't go into, oh, I want to clean house and want to bring all of my people in, because this company does have some major business with several major hospitals, and you know, that's relationship building. And that relationship building took years for them to when I say years, maybe about, I think they said five or six years. So, yeah, go ahead. So that's important. You know that relationship, the existing company has that relationship, and I told him, I would tell him, you want to make a smooth transition.   Michael Hingson ** 09:57 Well, and the reality is, it's. Some point, you can bring your own people in, but you're going to have to hire people to replace the people you you move and other things. At some point, it would make a lot of sense to really evaluate people and their skills and look at what they bring to the company before you just let them go. I was the last sales guy to be let go from Kurzweil and I had been relocated, actually, in late 1981 from Boston. Well, I lived in Winthrop and we worked in Cambridge. Then I was relocated back out to California because I knew that area better and and it was pre Xerox takeover, but the discussions had begun. But in 19 late, 1983 into 1984 was clear that Xerox had had taken the company, and some people were leaving. I was the last of the sales guys to be let go. I don't know whether that had to do with blindness or whether I was just so far remote because I was cross country, but they did it nevertheless. And I think that they made a serious mistake by losing, if you will, so many people, it just isn't a bright idea to do.   Robert Moment ** 11:25 You know, it isn't, because even when I was there, Michael Xerox was losing a lot of market share. Yeah, yeah. When I was there, they was losing when I went, when were you there? I was there like in in 1992 and they was losing a lot of market share to,   Michael Hingson ** 11:46 it's canon, yeah, and IBM.   Robert Moment ** 11:49 IBM, yes, they was losing a lot of market share. And, you know, they got became complacent. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 11:58 they did and and didn't, and probably never really had a clue about why they were losing so much market share. But nevertheless, it happened, yeah,   Robert Moment ** 12:08 I mean, Xerox was, I mean, in terms of, I mean, too top heavy, in terms of, I mean, it seems like every quarter they was hiring people, but in terms of market share, yeah, they was losing market share. And then a company called OSE came in Rico, the Japanese, the Xerox almost went under, yeah, yeah, yeah. I   Michael Hingson ** 12:37 one of the reasons I was asked to relocate to California. And like I said, they just started the discussions, but because I had spent time on and lived on the west coast for most of my life, the other thing they wanted me to do was to interface with the more technical parts of Xerox. Namely, they had a facility called Park Palo Alto area Research Center. Yes, I wonder if that's still there. Do you know? Yeah, I don't know. You know, yeah, I don't either. But I, I did a lot of work to integrate some of the information from Kurzweil into Park, which is part of what I did. And it was, it was fun. Got to meet a lot of and know a lot of the people there, and I would have thought that they would have been a little bit smarter about how they how they dealt with me, but and other people, but it, you know, it goes the way that it goes. I hear it a lot in the broadcast industry. Somebody comes in and they buy a radio station or a television station, and they phase out all the people who are already working there, which is so crazy.   Robert Moment ** 13:46 Yeah, it, yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that too, and I've actually here, I can't think of what, what station, but yes, I've heard that, and that's consistent, I think across the board, yeah, it is   Michael Hingson ** 14:03 well, and I think it's a little bit different, not necessarily totally, but a little different, because what they're doing is they're probably changing formats and other things, and they want to bring in people who are familiar with but I also Do think that they don't look at the value that, if you will, tribal knowledge, even in a radio environment, can play. So what do you do? Well, you said something earlier, interesting. You said that your parents brought you up being very self assured, self confident, and so on. I think that's that's an important feature and skill that we ought to have. Do you? Do you ever find, though, that you're too self confident, and it go in a kind of transitions over into arrogance, as opposed to just self confidence?   Robert Moment ** 14:55 You know, one of the things my father, you. Taught us you have to be careful about ego. Because he said, ego, you know that can be blind, blind confidence and blind confidence. You know that's tied to external validation, you know. And he said, you know, really, self belief is about trusting, you know, trust in your inner knowing. And not only trusting your inner knowing, it's you know your instincts and and just know deep down, you know you are capable of overcoming challenges and achieving goals. And you know, he even taught us, even said this, and I don't know he didn't invent this, but he said, you know, ego is edging God out, and you want to focus on just trust and believe yourself. You're going to have challenges, but you really have it's a fine line, that ego confidence is great, but that ego that goes beyond confidence, that you know sometimes you don't even really look at reality like you feel like you're invincible. And I think when you think you become invincible, that's when arrogance and ego come in.   Michael Hingson ** 16:17 If you're really invincible, you don't have to show it. It is just the way it goes. Well. Have you ever had a time in your life when you experienced something that really caused you to face a major challenge and doubt yourself, and how did you deal with that?   Robert Moment ** 16:37 My first corporate executive position that inner critic came up. An inner critic is, do I have what it takes? Am I good enough? And how I acquired my inner critics? And it is still comes up, sometimes even now, with opportunity, but I have to say to myself, I have to take inventory. Look at your past successes, look at your past wins, and look at the skills that you bring to the table. And those skills are transferable, whether it's a client that I'm coaching now or a future client, bigger client, but just because sometimes you know, when the opportunity comes, we excited. We get excited about the opportunity, Michael, but then, like I said for me, that inner critic is like, Okay, are you ready for this? And I have to remind myself, Yes, you are you. You have more than enough. You are enough, and you can do this.   Michael Hingson ** 17:39 So what really happened that caused a lot of self doubt with that first job,   Robert Moment ** 17:45 the responsibilities, the revenue that I needed to generate, that I had never had that kind of revenue before, and and the people who I was going to manage, but at the end of the day, you know, I said, You know what? They would not have given you this position, and if they didn't think you could do it. And then look at your look at the skills that you have. And once again, I took audit in terms of the skills, my transferable skills, and I was able to succeed. But still, that inner critic, inner voice that happens even now as a coach, how do you   Michael Hingson ** 18:24 how do you get past that inner voice? Doing that,   Robert Moment ** 18:28 I created an acronym. An acronym is B, line, B, E, L, I, E, and it starts with I begin self awareness and I understand my strengths and I understand my weaknesses. And then E, I embrace my imperfections, and because everyone has them, but what makes me unique? And then L, I learned from my setbacks. I know there's obstacles and opportunities for growth. And then I invest in self care, I prioritize my physical and mental well being, and in E I empower that inner voice to silence any negative self talk, and I just focus on the positives,   Michael Hingson ** 19:11 one of the things that we talk about on unstoppable mindset. And I've said it a number of times, so I hope people don't get too bored, but I think it's important to say, I used to always say, I'm my own worst critic. I listen to speeches when I give them. I did it some when I was program director at the campus radio station at UC Irvine K UCI. I've done it a lot of times. I listen to myself, and I always used to say, you know, I'm really hard on myself. I'm going to be harder on myself than anyone else. Anyone else, because I'm my own worst critic. And actually, only the last over the last year have I realized wrong approach. I'm not my I'm not my own worst critic. I do believe in, and have always believed in the kinds of things that you're talking about, introspection on. Self analysis and so on. And what I realized is that, in reality, no one can teach me anything. They can provide the information, but I'm the only one who can teach me, and I've changed from saying I'm my own worst critic to saying I'm my own best teacher. And the reality is that just totally reshapes the attitude, and I will will tell you that it also helps in dealing with that inner voice. Because when I start to think about that, I think about, okay, how do I teach me? Well, it goes back to self analysis. It goes back to introspection. What worked today? Why didn't that go as well as I thought that it should, and it could be I was just too, too confident, and I've got to be open enough to acknowledge that, and okay, so what do you do to make sure that doesn't happen again? So I love the approach of I'm my own best teacher, because it's such a a positive and more constructive way of helping to guide you into introspection and real self analysis.   Robert Moment ** 21:06 You know, I love the concept, you know, I would say, Isn't that owning your power? Sure, yeah, I would say that's Michael, that's owning your power. It   Michael Hingson ** 21:17 is owning it's owning, well, it's owning your power, and it's owning your actions and what you do, and when you acknowledge that, then you can sit back and look at it and go, Okay, so let's discuss brain what happened. But that's exactly right, and I would rather look at things with something that will really move me forward. Rather than saying, let's criticize other people can criticize me, but then ultimately, I have to go back and listen to and look at what they say and decide, okay, where's the merit they're saying it, maybe there's something to it, but is there really, or how much? And take it to heart, but come to a decision and move forward. You   Robert Moment ** 22:11 know that, you know, I call it, I would, you know, reframe it, and that that was a, that's a major pivot shift in terms of your mindset and your thought process. Yeah, because, you know, a lot of times people, we can be our own worst enemy, and, like you said, our own worst critic. But how you're reframing it from a positive more so than a negative because most people want to, they start with the negative instead of the positive. Yeah, yeah. So I like how you're reframing that. Because just like this is that self talk, you know, you can say, you know, I'm not good enough. Well, say I am good enough, just that slightly framing, because I always words have power, and you continue to repeat something, you will believe it,   Michael Hingson ** 23:09 and you can also say, How can I get better? Yes, and take the time to really analyze it, because I believe that ultimately, when we look at ourselves, we can, if we practice it and develop that mind muscle, we really know the answers, but we have to listen to get them to come to the surface so we can deal with them. The fact of the matter is, we know a lot more than we think we do. We underestimate ourselves. And so often something comes up, and suddenly we think of an answer, but we go, oh, no, that's too easy. Or no, that can't be it. And we go back and, yeah, you see what I'm saying. And we go back and overthink it, and then come up with what turned out to be the wrong answer, because we wouldn't listen to ourselves with the right answer. You   Robert Moment ** 24:05 know, I feel as though the universe is always talking to us, and sometimes we have to be still. And for instance, you know, if I'm coming up with a book title, like you said, if it's too easy, it's like, well, that's too easy. Well, no, that's probably the book title that you need, yeah, or the article title. You know, a lot of times we think, if it's too easy, that's not the solution. But here's something that was, I learned in corporate America, we would, here's an example, a client had a problem. Let's say it could be any problem. And we, you know, meet with the client. The client, they have five people, you know, representing our company, and maybe we have three or four, and they said, you know, they've had this problem. Six. Months, and I'm listening to the client, and I said, you know, this is the solution. And I remember telling a VP, I wasn't at the VP level yet. We we had a debrief, you know, like in the lobby after the meeting, and I said, this is the this is a solution. This is the solution to the client problem, and this is what he said. He said, That's he said, No, that's to he said, not. The meeting lasted maybe almost almost two hours, and he said, No, that. He said, You know what a client, we can't go back to the client and say that's the solution because they had the problem. He said, for over six months, and what we want to charge the client, we got to drag this out. And I said, Why drag it up? They got a problem. And he said, they will not believe that we solve this problem within two hours. So I you know he was a VP, yeah, Michael, it we went through, I want to say this is years ago, five or six meetings and the solution, it was this, right solution, six meetings, and then finally, we tell the client, okay, we have come up with the solution. And that's when I think I said, you know, I don't think I'm going to be in corporate America too long after that,   Michael Hingson ** 26:35 you know? And I've, I've talked about it a few times after leaving Kurzweil because I was dismissed, as it were, or Xerox. Actually, at that point, I couldn't find a job because people wouldn't hire a blind person. And it's still way all too often the case, the unemployment rate is, you know, incredibly high. Depending on where you are. It could be 60 65% significantly higher, and I was looking for a job and wasn't finding one. And so what I eventually did was I started my own company selling computer aided design systems to architects, a blind guy selling cat systems. Why not? You know, I didn't need, I didn't need to work the system, but I did need to know how to work the system so that I could describe it to people. Well anyway, as we started working with architects and so on, they would say, well, we can't as much as this system works and all that we can't take on this system because we charge with our by our time, with our with our effort and our time, and if we use the CAD system, we'll get done in a fraction of the time, and so we'll not make as much money. Well, you know, my response was, you are looking at it all wrong. You're bringing in new technology. You're bringing in so much more capabilities, because you could bring a customer in, and you can do walk throughs and fly throughs and show them exactly what it looks like looking out a window from inside a building and all sorts of stuff. They can say they want to change something, and they can make the change, or you can make the change as they suggest it. You're not charging for your time anymore. You're charging for your expertise. You don't need to charge less, but you're charging for all the expertise and the skills and the added value that you bring to the sale. And the architects who got that, and there were some who did and some who didn't, but the architects who got it really began doing extremely well, because they could also then go off and look for more customers more quickly, quickly, yeah, and we, we really, we really need to remember that there are, on a regular basis, new and better solutions coming up, and it's hard to keep up with everything. But by the same token, if we can be aware of what we need to do to make everyone's lives better with whom we work, we're going to do better, because they're going to do better.   Robert Moment ** 29:20 I totally agree. Because, you know, when I'm working with clients, even if the first two sessions, I have a solution, I'm not going to say, okay, you know what? Hold on to this solution until coaching sessions. In six months into the coaching session, you know that? You know, yes, for me, it's integrity. That's one, but two, I want all my clients to succeed as fast as quick as possible. And you know, I remember, gosh, when I started out this client, he's I said, one of the questions I was asked, have you. Ever had a coach before? And he said, Yes, I had a coach before. And I said, Well, how did it work out? And he says, I felt as though he had solutions or could help me, but he dragged out the process. And I said, Okay, that's not gonna happen with me. Because then I thought, you know, I thought back in my experience when I was in corporate America, yeah, when you have the solution, but, you know, I think I really want to coach him for another six months, not for two days, or, you know, two weeks. So, yeah, well, you   Michael Hingson ** 30:35 could coach him for another six months. It's just that you're going to evolve and go in different directions, if that makes sense to do, yes, yes. And if it doesn't, you're going to have a very happy customer who's going to tell other people about you. Absolutely   30:51 yes. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 30:54 I want to get to your transition, but first, just following up on something we talked a little bit about, how do you really tell the difference between overconfidence, or what you call our inner critic and or whatever, and the whole real issue of healthy self evaluation? How do we really make those differentiations?   Robert Moment ** 31:16 I would say, in terms of, like I said, ego is self validation. I'm sorry, self validation, or external validation, when you're talking about self belief, that's trusting, that's a inner knowing, that's your inner being, your core. And I think that's the difference, and because when you're talking about self belief, you begin with self awareness. I don't know anybody who has a huge ego focuses on self awareness. They don't understand. They not want to talk about understanding our strengths, understanding our weaknesses, ego. They just don't but when you talk about self belief, self awareness, and then they embrace their imperfections, to me, that's, that's, that's very, very important. And then I can say, when you talk about investing in self care, you do prioritize your mental well being and also your physical well being. You take, really, you take inventory of self   Michael Hingson ** 32:21 as you should, and it's something that you, if you're doing it right, probably do on a regular basis. Yes,   Robert Moment ** 32:29 that's one thing I tell clients weekly. There's five questions I might give them depending on the individual to do what I call a mental coaching, self, self, mental coaching each and every week, because mental health, you know, it's, it's prevalent, and especially the higher you are as an executive, the pressure and self audit. Because even myself, I, you know, yes, I'm a coach, but coaching people, they said, well, that mental health, that's yeah, I have to still go out my mental health as well. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:10 well, and there's nothing wrong with asking yourself, did I really do that? Right? What can I learn? How do I move forward? But even just the whole concept of, did I do it right? Did I do what I really should do? Asking yourself that helps so much to assist you in becoming more self aware, because if you ask that with an open, curious attitude, you're going to get the right answers, and then you can use it to move forward.   Robert Moment ** 33:45 You know, you're right about one of the things coaching. As a coach, you I always say to myself after every session, did I asked the right questions, was I curious enough? And did I go deeper? Because sometimes a client might give me a response, and I try to make sure I don't gloss over that response. And I want to say, you know, what? Can we go deeper? And then sometimes, you know, I ask for permission. Can we go deeper? Because Francis, our client, a couple weeks ago, he's had some leadership challenges. And I said, How does transparency, how does empathy and how does trust show up in your leadership style? And he said he gave me some examples. And I said, Well, can we go deeper? And he said, Well, I just gave you some examples. And he said, Well, why do you want to go deeper? I said, I'm here to help you, because with the examples he gave me wasn't it didn't have a lot of substance. And you know, after the session. You, he did say this, and you know, I don't need someone to pat me on the back. But he said, You know what? Now, I appreciate you as a coach, because he said, You know what, these three things. So I said, journal this week, how does those three things show up in your leadership style? And I want to see examples on next session, and that's what I want to be curious. But also want to go deeper,   Michael Hingson ** 35:22 do you record your sessions?   Robert Moment ** 35:24 Yes, I do. Yes, yes, and, and. So   Michael Hingson ** 35:27 the reason for asking that question is, then, do you go back and listen to them as a learning experience for you as well? Yes, I do. Okay, yes, which is, which is the which is the point, yeah, because you're your own best teacher, yes, but it sounds like that that person had some definite trust issues and probably needed to show a little bit more empathy and vulnerability than than they were showing.   Robert Moment ** 36:00 Yeah, you know, one of the things I did tell him, I said, you know, vulnerability, it's not a weakness. And and then, you know, one of the things when I said, when I have to dig deep, a lot of times when clients, it's not just about coaching them on how to become the best executive, but a lot of times it's about the story that the story that personalized, because a lot of times, for instance, here's an example about this. Is after COVID, this company called me and they said, Well, this executive we bought on board. He's a high performer on paper, but he is creating a toxic environment here. And I said, Well, you know, I was talking to the Chief Human Resource Officer. I said, I'm not understanding this. You said he interviewed. Well, he was a high performer. He has a great track record, but why is he calls it a toxic environment in your organization. And she said, Well, we gotta one or two things that's gonna happen. One, if he doesn't turn things around, we don't want to put him on any kind of corrective action, but we will have to, because two people have threatened to leave, and they've been here longer than him. So long story short, they said we're going to offer him coaching. If he doesn't accept coaching and doesn't turn things around, then yes, we're going to put him on corrective action and we'll terminate him. And he accepted coaching. And the one thing the second session that we had, and that's why I always said, Yeah, I have to go deep. And I said, they said, you know, when you are in meetings that you are not able to accept constructive criticism and and he says, that's that perception. So I said, well, but these are some examples that they gave me, and he said, and I said, Well, what kind and I don't know, Michael, something said to me, and sometimes, like I said, it's your intuition, yeah, instinct. I said, What kind of relationship did you have with your father? And this is what he blurted out. All of my life, he's been critical, criticized. I could never do anything right in his eyes. And I said, Can we go deeper? And I said, right now today, what kind of relationship do you have with your father? He said, I haven't spoken to my father in over seven years. And I said, would you what? Could you tell me why? So he told me why. And I said, Well, would you believe this statement that I'm about to make. And I said, you've had this all in your life, not just at this company. And he said, Yes, he has. And I said, not able to be able to take constructive criticism. And I said, here's things. I said, I can help you on two levels. I can help you on a professional level and I can help you on a personal level. So you said, Well, I told him how I could help him on this professional level. But I said the personal level, that's optional, because the company is paying for the professional the personal, I want to help you on a personal level. And I said, one of the things are you willing to take this major step that I'm about to ask you to take, and that's to forgive your father? Mm, hmm. And he said, first he he resisted. And I said, you're going to have this problem you're in. Entire life. And long story short, he forgave his father. I walked him through the process. I spoke to his father. Actually, we all and his father had never seen his granddaughter. And his granddaughter, I think, was four or five, and he saw for the first time that year, that Thanksgiving, and   Michael Hingson ** 40:22 I assume that the client ended up hopefully doing okay, and stayed with the company.   Robert Moment ** 40:30 He stayed with the company. He turned things around. Now this is what I'd say to not just the listeners, even myself. That's why, that's one of the reasons why coaching is my calling. It's not just the results the business results. I want them. I want every client to be the best version of themselves, not just in a professional but also that personalized. And you know that to me? You know that probably made my coaching year, not how many clients I coach, but just that made my coaching year for for a grandfather to see his grand. Now his his wife have seen her granddaughter, but his father had never seen only, only pictures.   Michael Hingson ** 41:25 Well, I'm glad that the the father and son made peace, and that that is so important. I think there is a whole lot of of connection between the professional parts and the personal parts. One of the reactions I had when you started the story was that, in reality, the professional part isn't going to really improve unless the personal part does.   Robert Moment ** 41:48 Yes, you're absolutely right. And I like i i tell my client, you're going to have this your entire life until you resolve it and forgive your father and you know, when I talked to the Father, Michael, his father was like that, so the cycle was never broken. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:11 it so often happens in so many different ways, doesn't   Robert Moment ** 42:14 it? Yeah? And, you know, and you're talking about a father, you know, life is short, and you're talking those many years without speaking to your father, not seeing him. And you know, you know the worst thing, it didn't happen. But if he would have lost his father, yeah, I was just   Michael Hingson ** 42:33 thinking that, yeah, if he would have lost his father, man, what a blessing. That didn't happen. Yeah, yes,   Robert Moment ** 42:38 absolutely. And then, not only that, your granddaughter would have never saw her grandfather, grandfather, right? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 42:47 Well, now let's, let's talk about you again a little bit. So you talked earlier. You told the story of what happened in corporate America, and you said that was kind of one of the things that started you to transition what, what finally was the the last straw, if you will, that led you to decide to leave corporate America, and how did you decide to go in and transition to just being a coach and, well, not just being but being a coach and starting your own business,   Robert Moment ** 43:15 we went, I can't think of, Wow, gosh, it was the year. It was a year where we was having, there was a lot of recession, was a recession and a lot of layoffs, and I had gotten tired of the politics, and I said, you know, I want something new, different, but I don't know what, but I want to become an entrepreneur. Because I was selling Christmas cards when I was like, in the fifth grade, you could get engraved personalized. I had a lawn a landscaping business sold T shirts. So I've always been an entrepreneur at heart, but I just didn't know what I needed to do to make that transition. So what happened was a lot of people colleagues were getting laid off, and they said, Well, can you help me find a job? I'm like, Well, I don't know if I can help you find a job. I don't have any connections like that, because the companies that I know they are laying off to Yeah. And they said, Well, you know, maybe you can help me interview. I'm like, okay, I can help you interview. Because I interview very well. I think because I got the copies I've worked for, I went through three or four interviews. So I started helping people get hired for jobs I wasn't charging. It was just, you know, pro bono. And I said, well, they said, you to get hired expert. And I said, not to get hired. They said, Yeah, because you I started getting referrals, and I wasn't. And I said, well, they said, Yeah. Know such and such. Said, you can help so and they said, you know, you're coaching us. I'm like coaching. Okay, I don't see myself as a coach. But then I realized I was coaching, I would mentor when I was in corporate America. So this is how, this is how I started to get paid, though, as a coach, a colleague referred this executive to me, and he said he had been with this company like for 15 years, and he said he doesn't know he really needs to help on job search interview, and he said he's going to give you a call. And I said, he said, Because I told him, You can help me, because you helped me get a job. So, long story short, he calls me up, and this is what he said. He said, I need your help, and I want to hire you as a coach. How much do you charge for years of coaching? I want you to help me find a job. Help me to interview. I need your help. And when he said, charge, I didn't know what this I said, Well, charge. I almost said, I've been doing this for free.   Robert Moment ** 46:27 Yes, Michael, and you're absolutely right, my friend. So I said, I threw out Michael. I threw out a number man for one year. I just, I don't know where that number came from. So I threw out the number, and this is what he said. He said, Well, how do how do I pay you? Do I pay you my check credit card? I didn't have no business account set up or anything, my personal checking accounts or money market. And I said, check. And he says, Well, how do you want me to mail you to check? And he's then he said this. He said, I am going to the bank because I'm getting my severance I gotta work things out. I'm getting my severance package, and I wire you the money. I said, Sure, you can borrow the money. So I gave him my account, long story short, and then when the money, I couldn't believe it. I said, you know, what did I charge? Did I overcharge it?   Michael Hingson ** 47:26 Yeah, you always ask that, or under charge, right, under   Robert Moment ** 47:29 charge. I said, because that was that. That was that transaction was too quick, too fast. And then I realized, after I did some research, I didn't overcharge and but then, you know what happened? When we came close to the first session, I said, Oh, my God, can I do this? Because this man has given me X number of dollars, and this is my first paying client, and that's when the inner voice came like, you know, this man may be asking you for a refund, so don't spend this money, you know, just put it aside in this account. And even I open a bit, and then I did open a business account, don't even touch this money. And you know what? Two months go back, and then, you know, I got past that point because I was telling my father. I said, Dad, I feel like the sessions are going great. And he got me, actually got hired, probably within four months, he had two offers. And then he said, I want you to coach me throughout for the year, of course. And I did not touch that money, Michael until I felt comfortable, maybe about six months. I moved it into, I think, I bought some stocks, and I said, you know, okay, but I, you know, I had some limiting beliefs that I had to get past. Yeah, I did.   Michael Hingson ** 49:06 Well, it was a new adventure. It was new all the way around for you. You had to discover that the Earth really is round and not flat, so it's fair.   Robert Moment ** 49:18 Yeah, you know, when you, you I tell even new coaches, when we all going to have, you know, limiting beliefs, and you have to, you have to fight through it. Yeah, you have to fight through it, because that, you know, like I said, my biggest fear was, don't spend the money, because he might ask for a refund. And, you know, I've had clients. No one has ever asked me for a refund. But that first client, I was kind of like, like I said not. I was confident in coaching him. But then I was that in a critic saying the. Spend that money because, you know what? Not that I needed to spend it. But then after that, I started to get more clients because referrals. And I said, You know what? Now is the time to make the leap. There you go. And I made the leap, yeah, and,   Michael Hingson ** 50:19 and and you've been doing it now. What about 20 years? Yeah, about 20 years. You know, I, I find it interesting. As a speaker, I was approached by someone who has an event coming up in June, and I quoted a number that I thought was high. But I also say I work with people in their budgets, which I'm I'm willing to do because the World Trade Center happened for me. And excuse me, in reality, while I do earn my living largely with it and speaking, I also want to be out there, inspiring and helping and educating so we negotiate. But I had this one customer, literally just this week, and they I quoted a number, and I figured it was high, and they came back and they said, Well, we really looked and that's a lot higher than we expected. We've actually had some comedians that we've been looking at possibly hiring, and they're quoting, like, maybe 20% of what you're quoting. And I said, I will work with you, but let me point out that I have the visibility, and you're hiring me for the inspiration that I bring in the expertise that I bring, as opposed to local comedians, and we'll see what happens, you know, and what's interesting is it's, it's a company that deals with the law. Lawyers don't negotiate a whole lot. Most of the time. They charge an hourly rate. You know, it's just interesting how people work at things.   Robert Moment ** 51:58 You know, one thing always feel as though my father said this. He said, communicate the value. If you communicate the value and they can see it, price does not become an issue. Yeah. And he said, you know, communicate the value up front as much as you can, and then price doesn't become an issue is when you don't, they don't see the value, then all of a sudden, you know, I gotta think about it. Let me talk to you know is this, but when they can see the value, and then, you know what? My coach told me this. One of my first coaches told me this. He said, you know, a lot of coaches want to charge just, just to get a client, they want to charge low fees. And he said, those will be your worst clients.   Michael Hingson ** 52:48 Yeah, absolutely, always will be your worst.   Robert Moment ** 52:52 He said they will probably. He said they will be, I've wanted you don't do it. They're   Michael Hingson ** 52:58 going to suck up your energy. They're going to do so much, many things, and they don't pay you for it, which is one of the reasons I'm resisting. We'll see what happens with this one. It isn't settled yet, and it'll work out. Yes, I have had other customers that I know didn't have big budgets. They're nonprofits and things like that. But again, we come to an agreement, both in terms of time and what's expected, as well as the money, and that's okay, but, but yeah, it is, you know, because not everybody is going to be able to pay what some bigger corporations will pay. That's okay, yeah, yeah. But the other thing that I actually always ask in my speaker contract is, if you like the speech, I want a letter of recommendation, and I want you to refer me to at least two other people. And   Robert Moment ** 53:59 that works, yeah. I love that. I love that strategy. It works pretty   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 well. Well, tell me, what are some practical techniques do you use to boost your self esteem and self belief, especially in difficult times? How do you psych yourself up in a good way? Well,   Robert Moment ** 54:19 one of the things self talk. It's, you know, to me, self talk is, you know, you can do this. I believe in you, you know, I look at and also, not only that, I look at my whether it's a big win or small wins. I look back over my life too. And I said, you know, 10 years, five years, even two days, you was able to do this and and then I surround myself with very supportive people. Mm, hmm, that's, that's key, because I believe, you know, they believe, not only do they believe in me, but self. Belief in self is contagious.   Michael Hingson ** 55:01 Yes, it absolutely is. Yeah, it's contagious   Robert Moment ** 55:03 and and how I challenge, like I said that inner critic is, I love how you reframe things. Is self talk, positive self talk, and focus on your accomplishment and celebrate small wins. It don't have to be big wins. It'll be small wins. But celebrate and then remember this too. I tell whether it's clients, colleagues, self belief, it's a journey. It's not a destination. It's like you. Every year you're building, like building muscles, your self belief muscles, whether it's five years, six years, but every year, you're building through life, lessons, failures, setbacks, but you're still building that muscle. Yep,   Michael Hingson ** 55:50 and when you understand that, that also will help give you the insight to continue to do it.   Robert Moment ** 55:56 Yes, because you know when you learn from setbacks, even obstacles or opportunities for growth. And you know, when you have a growth mindset, you realize through self awareness, you give a chance to learn and continue to grow. And then you know one of the things to you know, your dreams deserve a chance. It doesn't matter how big or small, but all of our dreams deserve a chance, and we all have unique talents, and just, you know, focus on your strengths and let them shine. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:39 what would you tell listeners who believe their self belief is at all time low. Where do they start?   Robert Moment ** 56:46 Well, first of all, you want to take inventory of the skills that you currently have and be grateful for what you have, because we all have unique talents, skills, abilities and gifts. And a lot of times I think what happens people underestimate what they already have, and start to take inventory of, like I said, the skills, the talents that you have, and embrace your own uniqueness and also your own imperfections. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:19 because if you don't recognize them, then you're never going to be able to deal with them. If you do recognize them, then you can deal with them   Robert Moment ** 57:26 absolutely and like I said, once again, give yourself credit for your small victories. You don't have to be big victories, but give yourself credit, because, see, when you give yourself credit for your small victories. Michael, that continues to build momentum.   Michael Hingson ** 57:43 Yep. Can you give me an example of someone who you believe has unwavering self belief and what we can learn from them? Yes,   Robert Moment ** 57:52 I do. I want to share this story. My name is Barbara Corcoran. She's the real estate for the Shark Tank. Yes, you know her boyfriend and business partner. She was in real estate. He left her for her secretary, right? And but you know what that split, what it did for her, I know it was devastating, but it was a catalyst for her success, because what it did, it fueled her determination to form her own company, which was a corporate group. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, she sold it for about $66 million so that, to me, resilience in her situation was key. She embraced a new beginning, and she looked at failure as a stepping stone, which   Michael Hingson ** 58:46 makes a lot of sense. I believe that we should get rid of the word failure from our vocabulary anyway. Failures are not failures. They are simply things that didn't work out as they should. And what are you going to do about it, right? It's we gotta get the negativity out of so much of it. Yeah, you   Robert Moment ** 59:05 know we do. We do because, you know also what I and her. She believed in herself fiercely, man, because she feel as though, you know, she had something to prove. I get that. And guess what she did.   Michael Hingson ** 59:22 You have a new book coming out entitled believe in yourself. You got this. Tell me about that.   Robert Moment ** 59:27 This is about I want the reader to really take inventory in themselves. This book is a coaching book. It's going to be real. It's real simple, but it's going to have questions where they take inventory and really focus on believing in themselves, and not only just believing But accepting themselves. You know you can believe in yourself, but I want them to really accept who they are and and know that worth, know that value. You and know that they have something to bring and add to this world.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04 Well, if you could leave our listeners with one final thought about self beliefs, what would that be?   Robert Moment ** 1:00:10 Own Your Power. Own Your Power, and don't let any one hold you back and take control. Take control of your destiny. And then also remember that self belief is a journey and not a destination.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:27 I love that. If people would like to reach out to you and maybe talk to you about hiring you as their coach, or just learning more about you and your books and all that, because you've written several books actually, how do they do that?   Robert Moment ** 1:00:39 They can reach me at Robert at leadership coaching and development.com or they can connect with me on LinkedIn.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:48 And what's the LinkedIn? Do you know your LinkedIn? Uh, yes, it'll be Robert moment leadership coach, okay, and what was the website? Again, website   Robert Moment ** 1:00:57 is leadership coaching and development.com.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:01 Leadership, coaching and development.com. Great. Well, I hope people will reach out. This has been insightful in a lot of ways, I will say, validating for some of my beliefs, but also very educational. And I said at the beginning, I always love speaking to people who coach, I learn a lot, and I've always believed that that I'm not doing my job unless I'm learning at least as much as anybody else who listens to the podcast. So I really appreciate your time today. So Robert moment, thank you, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope that you have found this helpful if you want to really become a better leader. Robert has lots of ways clearly that he probably can help you, and it's worth exploring with him. So I hope you'll reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Please give me an email. You can reach me at speaker at Michael hingson.com Michael hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, N, just like it sounds actually speaker at Michael hingson.com love it. If you'd go to our podcast page, if you would, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast can listen to all of our episodes there, but wherever you're listening or watching, I would really value it greatly. If you would give us a five star rating and review us. We really appreciate people who do that. So any of that that you can do, I would really appreciate it. And as I've said many times on these podcasts, if you need to find a speaker to come and inspire and motivate. I'd love to talk with you about that. Email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com love to talk with you about that. And Robert, for you and everyone listening and watching. If you know of anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. We'd love to meet people who want to be guests. So Robert, thank you again. I really appreciate you being here. This has been a lot of fun and definitely continued great success. Michael,   Robert Moment ** 1:03:08 thank you. I'm truly grateful and continued success to you as well.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

She has dedicated her life to her spiritual path, and learning the healing arts and mystical wisdom of many world cultures. She is a holistic energy healer: Reiki Master; Crystal energy healer (certified, International Practitioners of Holistic Medicine); Sound Therapy & Sound Healing practitioner (certified, Complementary Therapists Accredited Association); and shamanic practitioner. Kathy walks the path of an ancient lineage of women frame drummers. An award-winning artist, photographer, and poet, Kathy's fine art photography can be found at her online gallery at KathyHarmonLuber.com, her shop at fineartamerica.com/profiles/kathy-harmon-luber/shop, and on Facebook at facebook.com/Kathy-Harmon-Luber-Suffering-to-Thriving-103160192354485. Kathy's compelling writing and marketing prowess have helped nonprofit organizations advocating the arts, education, and environment, as well as helping foster children and youth, helping homeless youth get off the streets, and empowering people with developmental disabilities. She's an articulate spokesperson, having appeared on CNN, in The New York Times, LA Times, The Washington Post, and more. She has taught at professional conferences, university, high school, and middle school levels. She earned her Graduate degree in Publishing from The George Washington University and BS in Marine Biology from University of NC, Wilmington. This time we get to visit with Kathy Harmon-Luber, a Sound Therapy & Sound Healing practitioner, Reiki Master. In her twenties Kathy was diagnosed with serious autoimmune diseases. Also, she was told that she had the spine of someone in their eighties. Kathy had grown up in Pennsylvania and then moved during her high school years to North Carolina. She will describe how she went to college and obtained a degree in Marine Biology, but after leaving college she went in a slightly different direction and began working for various nonprofit agencies including spending 12 years working for these organizations in Washington D.C.   As Kathy describes, she slowly began looking for ways to help her conditions and learned about and started to work with sound healing. In a sense, much came to a head in 2016 when she experienced a worse than usual ruptured disk in her back and became bed ridden for five years.   The unstoppable Kathy after coming to grips with her situation began to work on becoming aware of her own body and what it would need to heal. Clearly what she did worked as now, as she will tell us, walks two or more miles at a time. She still monitors her body, but that is the real crux of the issue; she is aware of her body and has learned what it needs to stay healthy. She reminds us that we all can be more aware of our physical and mental needs if we will but take the time to gain awareness and insights.   At the end of our time Kathy tells us of a free gift for all. You can find this gift on her website, www.sufferingtothriving.com.       About the Guest:   Kathy is an inspiring, compassionate, and empowering author and wellness guide whose passion is helping people navigate the challenging terrain of the healing journey. With insight and enthusiasm, she opens people's eyes to the potential of becoming more physically, emotionally, and spiritually healthy by offering a toolkit of practical solutions. Her book, “Suffering to Thriving: Your Toolkit for Navigating Your Healing Journey ~ How to Live a More Healthy, Peaceful, Joyful Life,” is full of wisdom gleaned from decades of healing from health crises. Kathy went from suffering to thriving, reversing the progression of asthma, chronic bronchitis, and autoimmune disorders, and recovered (without surgery) from several debilitating, inoperable spinal diseases and disc ruptures which left her bed-ridden for five years. Kathy's passion is helping others find their compass and chart a course for navigating illness, injury, and loss – learning how to not only cope, but to become more resilient, joyful, and thriving.   Photo by Lynne Eodice     Ways to connect with Gail:   https://www.facebook.com/SufferingToThriving https://www.instagram.com/kathyluber/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathy-harmon-luber-4b38158/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, thanks for listening. Wherever you happen to be today you are listening to unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael hingson, and today we get to chat with Kathy Harmon Luber, who is a Reiki Master, a healer, and she comes by it very honestly. Why do I say that? Because for many years, like others I've had the opportunity to chat with on the podcast, she actually went through some very serious, debilitating and unhealthy issues. But also, like a number of people, as you will see, Cathy is very unstoppable. She went through it, and it is kind of helped shape what she does today and where she is in her life. And I'm going to leave it at that, because I think it'll be a whole lot more fun if you get to hear from her. So Kathy, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 02:16 Hi, Michael. I'm so happy to be here with you today.   Michael Hingson ** 02:19 And the other thing about Kathy is we don't live all that far apart from each other, because I live in a town called Victorville, and she lives in Idlewild, and so we're, as I said, I could she's below us, although a little ways away, but I could probably, if I had a really good, strong arm and a well built paper airplane, I could throw a plane that would go into her window and land on her desk, but I think that's going to be a little tough to do under normal conditions, but you never know what'll happen. But I'm really glad that you're here with us. Why don't we start? If we could by you telling us a little bit about kind of the early Kathy growing up and so on. That's always a fun place to start. Yeah,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 02:59 always a good place to start. Thanks. You know, Michael, I grew up in Pennsylvania, even though we live in California now, I grew up in Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, in a lovely small town. Our our home was on a property that my dad planted quite a lot of trees. He was a forestry major, so he planted lots of trees. We had this beautiful wooded yard, and I spent a lot of time outdoors and with our with our dog, our colleague, Taffy, and exploring the woods and nature. And so nature has always been such a big part of my, life as a result of that early upbringing, but I was also very, very creative back then and now i i played piano. I got started really young. When I was when I was three years old, my mom started giving me piano lessons because I had just sat down beside her one day and started to play and wanted to play. Then I moved on to flute. So I've, my dad played a lot of classical music, and so I was, I was always very inspired with that, and I also did a lot of art. And so young Kathy was, was was very creative. And I've, I've carried that through my life. It's been something that's given me a lot of strength through adversity. And as I like to say, you know, we all need to find our medicine to get us through life and the challenges that we face and creativity is my medicine, along with nature, is my medicine as well. So yeah, it's a little bit about my early days. So   Michael Hingson ** 04:44 you went to school and all those usual things that us kids did back in the day as it worked. I did. You went to college.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 04:52 I did. I went   Michael Hingson ** 04:54 to college. Where did you go and what did you do?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 04:57 Okay, well, interesting. I. We moved when I was 14 from this idyllic life in Pennsylvania to North Carolina. My dad got a great job offer in Charlotte, and he moved our family there. So I went to high school there for a couple of years, and then I went to college. He wanted me to stay in state, and so I went to University of North Carolina at Wilmington on the coast. I majored in marine biology. My dad did not want me to major in the creative arts. He was adamant about it. He wanted me to be a business major. And, you know, I subsequently have had a lot of experience in in business, but I I also just had this, you know, this, this love for nature that was, that was kindled in my my childhood. We also took trips to the beach once we moved to North Carolina, and so I, I decided to be a marine biology major. You know, I was very inspired by Rachel Carson and her, her books and, and other writings and and so that is, is what I majored in, and loved it. I used to, you know, snorkel and scuba dive and all of that, and just found the ocean to be another home. Yeah, cool.   Michael Hingson ** 06:17 So you went in and got a degree in marine biology, but what did you then do with it?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 06:24 Yeah, isn't that interesting? Yeah. So   Michael Hingson ** 06:27 I, I know the feeling well.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 06:32 So I moved with my soon to be now ex husband to to Washington, DC, after college, and I just had the fire in the belly to to work with advocacy organizations that make the world a better place. And that's been my entire career, prior to to career change into sound healing, and the the other healing arts and Reiki and all of that, which we'll talk about. But, but, yeah, I I was very inspired by my grandfather, who, you know, he was one of those people who was always volunteering, always making a difference in the world. Believed that we could make a difference no matter what was going on in the world and in the power of every person to make that difference. And so I was really inspired by that. And so I went to work in nonprofit organizations, and I worked in environmental organizations. I worked with a couple of organizations that that worked at the grassroots level to empower environmental organizations to to, you know, fight a lot of the big battles with with corporate polluters and super fun sites and things of that nature. I went on to work with a lot of of different, varied nonprofit organizations over the years, including when, when I was in DC, the Smithsonian Norman Lear's People for the American Way, a constitutional rights organization. So, so I've had a lot of varied experience in in the nonprofit world, but it was working. You know, in environmental causes that really lit me up. And later, you know, moving to California as a consultant, I also work for environmental organizations. So it's, it's been a passion of mine, yeah, so it   Michael Hingson ** 08:35 sounds though, like marine biology, in a sense, had a little bit of an influence. Did you find that there were ways and places where you were able to use some of that knowledge or some of the experience you gained along the way with marine biology? Yeah,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 08:49 for sure, within the environmental work that I did, I did fundraising and grant writing, and certainly the marine biology, you know, I took ecology classes and animal physiology classes and all kinds of things that weren't specifically marine biology related, but biology and nature related. So so that well rounded education has served me very, very well over the years. And I might also say that at the time that we moved to DC and I went to work in these environmental nonprofits, I really wanted to get an advanced degree in marine biology. There were hiring freezes in the government. They were doing a lot of the hiring of young Marine Biology majors. And so I kind of hit a roadblock there, which required me to pivot a little bit. And that's kind of been the story of my career. As I've gone through many different kinds of nonprofits. You know, as opportunities opened that that seemed interesting to me and and worthwhile causes, I have had these pivots into slight. The, you know, different fields and away from the marine biology, but it to the state, you know, I've still done, like, a lot of snorkeling, and put that information to use as well. So it's been both professionally as well as in my personal life. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:17 well, so you, you were in DC for how long? 12 years, wow. And then, what did you do? Then   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 10:26 I had a great opportunity. I I worked. The last job I had in in DC was working with the Democratic National Campaign Committee to to raise what was then, like a record breaking amount of money, and I was offered a job doing some some consulting in LA, and I, I, I really love DC. I have so many great memories and lots of friends still to this day, but I had the opportunity in working in DC to travel to California a lot, and I loved it here. And so when that job opportunity came, I decided to move to California. I've worked with a lot of different varied I got out of politics at that point and into other kinds of nonprofits that make the world a better place. And that includes, you know, the arts, Health and Human Services, helping traumatized children mental health issues. So quite a lot of of organizations that that help people. Yeah, so what did you   Michael Hingson ** 11:44 What did your father think about you going into all this nonprofit work, even though he wanted you to get and you got your degree in marine biology, or did he approve?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 11:56 Uh, you know, he wasn't crazy about it, I have to say, because he didn't feel that that nonprofits are business, because people think, if you work for a nonprofit, there's no money, there's no profit, and in in the the strict sense of the word nonprofit, nonprofits cannot make profit that is then shared with board members and stakeholders and all of that. But you know, many nonprofit organizations raise millions upon millions of dollars to put into their work. It's just that they have a a mandate from the government to spend it on the programs, on the on the programmatic work. So he wasn't crazy about that, but by that point, he realized his daughter was going to do what she wanted to do in life, and I've never looked back. It has been deeply fulfilling, and I do feel like a lot of nonprofit organizations are real change makers in the world, right? And so, so so it's been deeply fulfilling to me at that level. And you know, the the fundraising part I kind of fell into when I was in DC, people took me under their wings and taught me how to fundraise and and I became development director and VP of development and advancement and all those things, and that's what powers the nonprofit work. So, so I always felt really good about that, yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 the reality is, of course, that people who really are committed to their nonprofit work into whatever nonprofit organization they are a part of will tell you that it's all about trying to make a difference in the world. It's all about trying to improve the world, whether they specifically are the ones to make a difference, they want to be part of the process that will make the world a better place. And they they do recognize there is money, but they also recognize that the more important thing are maybe the tangibles and possibly the intangibles that go along with making a real difference, right?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 14:11 Exactly? And it's such a wonderful opportunity to you know, in the in the fundraising part, you know, money comes from individuals, it comes from private foundations, and it also comes from corporate philanthropy. So it was an opportunity to work in partnership with corporations to also make good things happen. Yeah, did   Michael Hingson ** 14:31 all of your work, both in marine biology and just the things that your your dad wanted you to do, in terms of business and so on. Did all of that experience and the terminology that you got to learn, did all that help you? Yes,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 14:47 absolutely. You know, it's been fascinating to me, Michael, how at every step along my career path, how I've been able to take what I've learned in Marie. In biology in and just, you know, nature studies in general as part of that, getting that degree, not strictly marine environment, but, but, but you know, the natural environment in general, and and everything I've learned in working in nonprofits and in fundraising and all of my varied interests, like even in the arts, I've worked as a as a development consultant with lots of arts organizations, so I've been able to sort of marry all of These what seem like disparate skills and bring them into almost every job I've well, not almost every job I've ever had. So that part has been fascinating to see how interconnected all of those things have been in making it a rich experience and making it a career. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 16:01 well, along the way, your life changed because of some some physical things that happened to you. Why tell us a little bit about that? Because I know that that leads to a lot of the choices that you've made since, and a lot of the things that you've learned   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 16:15 absolutely, you know, I think it's like so many of us in life, disruptions can happen in our lives that set us on a different course or or maybe just we course correct a little bit, or maybe it's dramatic, and in my life, it's been just a little bit of both. I when I was in my 20s, I was diagnosed with autoimmune diseases and severe hereditary spinal diseases. I was always really interested in pursuing complementary medicine, right along with Western medicine, both have helped me enormously, and I was doing just great. I had doctors when I was in my 20s tell me I had the spine of an 80 year old at that point, and that I also would probably end up in a wheelchair by my mid 30s. And I'm thrilled to say that, that I am, that I am not currently, and I'm I'm many   17:12 decades older. I was gonna say you're a lot older than in your 30s. Yes, I am. And so   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 17:17 I've been able to to, to really find a healing path that has helped me to really thrive physically. So that was one part of it, but then I was doing just great. You know, I had had some minor setbacks over the years, especially with my spine disc ruptures and things of that nature that would take, you know, two or three months of being down for the count, and then I'm back, you know, strong and right back at my very, very active life. I've always been, you know, I when I was younger, I was a runner. I've always been a hiker. I love to swim, like, like, an hour at a time, at the at the pool, you know, not just playful swimming, but but serious swimming. And, you know, I played a lot of high impact sports and things, from basketball when I was young to tennis and volleyball and all the things so super active life, and I managed until 2016 when I had, I had gone to visit a client. It was an overnight trip, and it involved several hours in a car each way, and all year long. In 2016 it was a very, very big year. We had had, I had, you know, traveled internationally, my husband and I did a drive all the way up the coast to from Southern California to Oregon. You know, I was serving on three boards of directors. Yes, I was still working more than full time. I had quite a lot going on in my life, and I was getting these subtle, intuitive hits that I really needed to rest my back more. It was very, very painful. And I, I, I practice good self care, you know, I'd rest for a while, and then I'd be right back to my really busy life, right? So the day after this, this trip to the client, I was very excited. I'm standing in the kitchen, telling my husband, as the coffee is brewing, all about the trip, and I get this extraordinarily severe like I've had never had before in my back to the point that I barely made it to the bedroom without falling he had to help me, and I'd had ruptured discs before. This was really different in terms of the intensity of the pain. If the others were a 10, this was like a 20, and I could not move. Once I got laying down flat on my back in bed, I could not move at all, like without just incredible searing pain. And I thought, well. Well, here we are. It's going to take another couple months, maybe three, for this to, you know, resolve. I know I have to really be down for the count now and really rest and you know. So I started just making changes, you know, I knew I had to resign some boards temporarily, I thought. And I talked with doctors and all of that. And come to, you know, fast forward, I was bedridden like that for five years, five years. I wasn't prepared for that, you know, I really thought it was going to be a more or less speedy recovery and and it wasn't like other recoveries, where I could even prop myself up in bed and work from my laptop. I was completely down for the count. Um, it was inoperable. Doctors said it could take anywhere from six months to three years to heal. Maybe you'll be better, and maybe you won't. So I went through that those moments of it may be always like this. It may not get better. I mean, one, one neurosurgeon said you, you may not be able to ever really walk much again. And in the early years of that, I couldn't walk to the bedroom door. So, you know, it was, it was that was depressing. It was, you know, you go down the downward spiral of feelings like and asking all the wrong questions. You know, I was in that place of asking, Why me? Why did this happen to me. You know? What? What Will it always be this way? What if it's never better? What if? What if I am completely reliant on my husband and friends for the rest of my life? You go to that place. It's human nature. And we can't beat ourselves up when these kinds of things happen, and we we tend to, you know, either blame ourselves or go down the dark rabbit hole. But the important thing, as you have talked about so much, and that you and I both know, is that when great challenges happen in our lives, just like when they don't, but magnified when they do. Every moment is a choice. And I realized one day that, you know, I could prop my laptop on my stomach and look for inspiring quotes. And one day I got up, woke up, and I thought, that's what I'm going to do this morning. I'm in a bad place. I started looking for inspiring quotes of people who went through bad stuff, who got through it. And I realized in that moment, it was like a lightning bolt. Every moment I have a choice, I could I could go and just forever live in that dark place, or I can try to find hope and a new purpose in my life. I could choose to be a bitter old, unhappy woman one day. Or I could take a different path, and I start thinking, Well, how would I take that different path? Here I am lying in bed. I can't do anything for myself. What can I do? I began looking at it from the standpoint of not disability, but ability. What is my ability? What can I do? And I actually, with my computer, made a list of everything I couldn't do right? I couldn't I couldn't go for walks. I couldn't swim. I couldn't walk to the kitchen at that point, you know, like I said, I couldn't even get to the bedroom door. I could no longer ride horses, which, which was something I love to do. I, up until that point, had been playing classical flute in our town at least once or twice a weekend. Professionally, I could not even lift up my flute because it twisted my back in a way that was just completely unbearable. So in one column, I made that list of everything, and I said, you know, I can't be on boards of directors anymore, because at that point, you know, that was 2016 2017 we weren't using zoom and other platforms to connect virtually, as we began to do during the pandemic. And so So I made a list of the things that had to go What did I have to completely get rid of? I resigned boards. I cut back on client writing work. And then I looked at all the things I love to do, my flute playing, my art, my photography, and I said, All right, what is a work around here? I can't I can't ride horses. I can sketch horses. I love to sketch. So maybe I'll just lean into that. Something I never did before, that I wasn't sketching or painting horses. I couldn't stand at my easel, but I could. I could sketch. I couldn't play my classical flute. I could play my Native American flute because it didn't twist my spine. I had, you know, Tibetan and Crystal singing bowls, which, which I loved. I had gotten into sound healing years, decade, a couple of decades ago now, for anxiety and relaxation from stress, right? And, and I thought, well, there's something I can do. I'll have my husband bring those things to me, and I'll, I'll do those things. And, what I'm saying is I found new and different things that lit me up, that that gave me joy. And there's a very good reason for doing this first. First what got me to that point unbeknownst to the reason why it's important, which I'll get to in a second. But the what got me to that point, is asking the right questions instead of poor me. Why did this happen to me? It was what if this is an opportunity for me to turn inward more? I've always been a very spiritual person, not necessarily in a religious way, but, but, but spiritual. What if this is an opportunity for me to really lean into that? What if it's an opportunity for me to learn new things and get certified in sound healing and become a Reiki Master? Uh, what if it's an opportunity for me to find a new path in life. What if this is a portal to something new and different, a new and different life purpose? And when I was telling you about all the nonprofit work I did and still do that, I thought that was my ultimate life purpose and and because of of of this massive health challenge, on this healing journey, I've discovered there's more to it than that, sound, healing, energy, healing, um, all of that is, is part of my new   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 27:17 um, expanded Life Purpose, and what I the gifts that I bring to the world. So, so what I'm saying is, you know, when we look at it as our healing journey, as embedded in our life's journey, of course, if we live long enough, we're all going to face health challenges, be they physical, mental, emotional, even spiritual, right? So our healing journey embedded in our life's journey, embedded in our soul's journey, or what we came here to do in the world. And so healing journey becomes a portal. The reason why this is so important, I just finished Michael reading a really fabulous book by a doctor, Dr Jeffrey rediger, I believe his name is. It's called cured, and it is about the medical science behind people who have really rather miraculous feelings. They don't. They don't just the cancers don't go into remission, only they are cured of cancer. He's been following some of these people for decades, and he decided, from from the medical perspective, why do some people have amazing healings and others don't? And many of these people were given two months to live from their particular cancer or other diseases, and decades later, they're still alive and they're thriving. Why is that? And it seems the common denominator throughout his book is not owning the label of your disease as the be all and end all. In other words, I am not my spinal diseases. I am not my autoimmune diseases. I have a purpose in life, and then finding that purpose, living that purpose, living an intentional life that brings you great joy. He told the story of a woman who had two months to live from an extremely aggressive pancreatic cancer, one of the worst cancers, and she spent the weekend with her, with her girlfriends. They went to the beach. They all you know, gave her lots of love and encouragement for what she thought was the final couple of months of her life. Then she decided I am not my cancer, and I am going to just live every day of my life, however short it remains. I'm going to live it full of joy, full of passion. And full of love, and that's what she did. Fast forward over a decade, like close to 15 years later, she ends up in the hospital, same hospital that that, that you know, did all the the testing for the pancreatic cancer and she had appendicitis. She saw the doctors, and they looked at her chart and said, We didn't think you were alive, right? She was. She only had two months to live here. She is nearly 15 years later, alive, and then she began working with the doctor who wrote this book to even explore further why she's still alive. Turns out, living a life of purpose and full of love and support, following your passions is is for many people, what helps them to transcend and have these rather, rather amazing feelings. And so I have, I have been, I was doing that then without knowing that I only read the book a couple months ago. So it's a relatively new, new book out. I, I, I began just sort of following that, and now I'm leaning into it even more, as you can imagine, knowing that's kind of a recipe for thriving, right,   Michael Hingson ** 31:23 right? And well, and I think it's, it's been known in some quarters for quite a while that your mental attitude and your perceptions can dramatically and can totally, I think, actually control how you are, how healthy you are, and so on. Disease is a is really dis ease, but it is as much, if not more, in most cases, mental, than anything else. That doesn't mean that some people aren't going to get a broken arm or something like that, or in your case, you had some very bad back problems. But it also doesn't mean that your mind doesn't have the ability to help you move beyond that, which is what you did   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 32:15 exactly. And you know, in my book, I I dedicate a lot of my book suffering to thriving, to this concept of suffering is a choice, unnecessary suffering. Okay, I'm not, I want to say right up front, I'm not talking about people who are in war torn countries or or in countries where there are terrible, you know, injustices to people. That's a different kind of suffering. I'm talking about the kind of suffering that is in our mind, that we perpetuate with our minds. Suffering is a choice. Unnecessary suffering is a choice. Thriving is a choice. And I write a lot about this in my book, about how we need to make our mind our medicine. And that's not false positivity. You know? It's about training your mind not to go down the negative rabbit hole of the terrible questions of perseverating about all the bad things that can happen. Because, look, life is complicated in our world, bad things happen every day. It's important to find a place within us, that place of stillness where we can live in the moment. And when we sit here like I'm sitting here right now with you, this is a beautiful moment. There are lots of terrible things going on in the world. There are lots of terrible things happening to our planet environmentally. And we can choose to find moments of peace in our lives, that peace, that stillness within that is healing and so, so harnessing the power of that in our lives, every day, every moment, is a choice. We can do something healing or not, and and you and I have talked about this before. You know the Buddhist nun Pema Chodron, who I'm a big fan of, because she is just so plain, speaking about the challenges of daily life. And you know, how do we how do we thrive through, through what's going on in our in our world, even she talks about every moment is a choice between fear versus love. What would fear decide? Fear? Fear goes down that rabbit hole and doesn't come out and just lives in that dark place and we feel sorry for ourselves. It's human to do that. It's human nature to do that in to some degree. But what would love do if we're being loving towards ourselves and the people we're in community with, right people in our lives who we love, I will decide   Michael Hingson ** 34:50 right I would submit that fear isn't necessarily a rabbit hole that we have to go down. That is to say fear is in part physiological and in part mental. That's right, but, but fear is also something where, again, like with most things, we have the choice of how to deal with it. And you know, we've talked about my new book, and I've talked about it here on the podcast, live like a guide dog, which is all about discussing the idea of learning to control fear. Fear can be a very powerful tool in our arsenals. It doesn't necessarily need to be something that overwhelms us, or, as I put it blinds us. The reality is that fear is something that if we learn to use it properly, can make us more aware, more perceptive. It can help our visualizations, and that's what we need to deal with. You said it in a very interesting way a few moments ago, when you talked about living in the moment. The problem with fear is that what we usually learn on this earth, many of us anyway, is that we have to what if everything? What if this happens? Oh, my God, that's horrible. What if that happens? And as several people have written over the years, the problem with most all of our fears is they never come to pass, but we spend so much time dwelling on them that we don't look at what caused them, where they come from, and what good is it going to do for us to continue to dwell on things when all we're doing is making stuff up as we go, but rather to say, Okay, I'm aware of this, and when you go back and study it, ah, that's What caused me to think that way? Okay, I understand that now, and I'm aware of that, and I don't need to worry about that, because I recognize that's just a myth that I'm trying to create when I don't need to do it. Oh,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 37:16 I love that so much. Michael, that's exactly it. Exactly it. You know, fear, like you said, is it is a an important, an important feeling, because as human beings, you know, think of our, think of our long ago ancestors and and saber tooth tigers like you couldn't be curious about that big cat. You had to be fearful of it, or you could lose your life, right? The problem is today, we're not being chased by by crazy wild animals. Most of us, and we are, we're, we're, we're fearful of things that happen in everyday life, to the point that a lot of people just have this running emotion of fear all the time, what I have found, and I've read a lot about this, and I'm very excited to read your book and learn even more about it from you. I think it's really important to face our fears and to be curious about them. For example, you know, I would be very, very fearful about about certain things. And when I really sat down and faced them and said, What is behind this fear, and then what's behind that?   Michael Hingson ** 38:29 Well, let's go back to the saber tooth. Let's go back to the saber tooth tiger a minute. Um, were we just afraid of the cat, or did we observe and learn and become respectful of it and gave it its space while it may not have cared about our space so much, but we we learned to recognize it and to respect it more than to fear it. Because the problem with fear as such when we let it run rampant, is that we lose our ability to put things in perspective. And I expect that those cave people realized I don't want to tangle with this cat, because now that doesn't mean that there wasn't a level of fear, but again, fear used in the right way leads to better awareness, better observation, being aware of when that cat's around, looking for it, learning more about how to recognize when the cat's there, so that you can avoid it, which doesn't mean that you're not afraid of it, in a sense, but more you're aware of it, and you learn to respect and deal with it. Yeah. On the other hand, I wonder if there are any cave people that ever got to make friends with the saber tooth tiger. You never know.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 39:48 We never know. Yeah, it could well be. But in regular, you know everyday life now, like often, we'll be afraid, and I can remember this very well in the first couple of years of being. Bedridden. I was afraid of my spine. I was afraid my spine was going to get worse. I was afraid that if I started walking, I might make it worse. And then I sat down one day and I thought, I can't live in fear of my own body. You know, our bodies are so wise. They everything pain, allergies, lives, anxiety, it all tells us something. It's a teacher. And so is fear. Like in the case of a saber tooth tiger, you know it's it teaches us something. So if we can approach fear from the perspective of, okay, why am I afraid of again years ago, walking for fear that my spine would collapse further. Why am i i turning this into a fear of my own body, and then I would be okay? Well, if it happens again, I'm afraid that I'm really going to be a burden on my family. And you go down, you know, that line of inquiry, okay, well, what's behind that, and what's behind that, and that, and, and is that a worthwhile fear to live your life? There you go. And I came to the point where it's like, uh, no, I have to take calculated risks. I'm not going to do anything crazy, but, but let's set small goals for myself and and sure enough, you know now I'm, I'm walking, I'm, I'm I'm able to walk. I'm able to walk a couple of miles, but it began with those baby steps that were full of fear. We have to face that and dig underneath it and and I like anything you know, when you confront it, it takes a lot of the scariness out of it. Actually, can just face the fear, right? Absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 41:50 What is it that eventually happened to you or because of you, that healed essentially, as much as possible that your spine so that you are able to walk and so on. Now,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 42:06 yeah, that's a great question. I would love to say it was one thing, but like most things in life, it wasn't. I was. I was doing quite a lot of things. I was I was doing a lot of visualization of walking, I was doing a lot of visualization of going about my regular life. There was a time I couldn't stand in the kitchen and make dinner. I visualized standing in the kitchen and making a cup of coffee, a cup of tea, a dinner. And so I did a lot of work in my mind to and this comes from athletes. You know, elite athletes use visualization to win their games or to win their gold medal, right? So I learned a lot from that. Right visualization really helped. I really did a deep dive of research into supplements that help the body to fight inflammation. I was, you know, my whole life I have, I have been either vegetarian or pescetarian, you know, eating fish and shellfish. I I began to introduce things like, like, like chicken into my diet at one point when I recognized the need for more protein. But it's about listening to your body and what it needs in order to heal, supplementation, Ayurvedic medicine. I saw a naturopath. I just began to explore every single thing. Then after about three years, I was cleared to go to physical therapy. Physical therapy has saved me so many times. You know, from sports injuries. I've had torn menisci in my knees, and, you know, doctors would say, I think you're going to need surgery. And physical therapy helped so much that I've avoided that surgery my entire life. So so when the doctor said it was inoperable because of the way the disc ruptured and glommed onto the sciatic nerve and other disease, spinal disease, problems that were hereditary, they could not operate. I began to look at everything else. I began to look at things like magnet therapy, just Reiki healing energy Reiki is energy healing, sound healing. I had been doing music and sound I had been going to sound baths, mostly for stress, relaxation, mindfulness, all the all the good stuff. But then I began to realize that that sound healing is so much more powerful than even that. I got certified as a sound healer and began just expanding my repertoire of sound healing and energy healing work. And now I mean this, this, this, I think you find fascinating. You know, doctors are incorporating. Sound healing and Reiki energy medicine into their hospitals across the United States and Europe, into hospitals departments of integrative therapies. And last year, when my mom was in the hospital for cancer, that that that major hospital in Charlotte, North Carolina, had a department of integrative therapy that worked with the hospital and with hospice to to help people. The science behind it is is being proven by by major major universities all over the country. There's some fascinating work coming out of UCLA here in California, by a researcher who works with medical doctors. The researcher's name is James jimzewski, and he, in collaboration with doctors, have found that the different types of cells in the body, the heart cells, the brain cells, they have their own frequency of hertz, which is simply the measure of vibration of sound. They each have their their own unique vibration. And when cells, if they look in a petri dish of heart cells, to become atrophied or brain cells, they realize that those atrophied cells can be brought back to their normal cellular function by applying those frequencies to the cells so sound reinvigorates them. It holds great promise for the future of medicine. And lots of medical doctors are writing about this. There's a well known oncologist by the name of Dr Mitchell Gaynor, who wrote a wonderful book called The Power of sound healing. And he uses sound therapy himself. He conducts a sound bath for his cancer patients. He believes in it that much right along in compliment with Western medicine, of course, and so I that was one of the things. I really, really, I got certified in sound healing, like I said, I became a Reiki Master, and I began applying those things in my own life when I began doing the sound treatments, in other words, when I was better enough to be out of my completely bedridden state, about three, four years in, I got a gong, and the gong has the widest range, the lowest lows, the highest highs that we can't hear. Many dogs and other animals can hear these sounds, but human ears cannot detect them, but our sound, our cells at the cellular level, pick up on that sound, and I began noticing I'd have really accelerated healing again. It's now been, you know, it's now been, uh, going on. It's been, uh, you know, over seven years, going on eight years that that all of this has been has been healing, but over time, I believe everything is incremental. It's like anything in life. Everything is incremental. You can't go to the gym and lift weights once and have a fit body. You know, you got to keep at it. So applying all of these things. Over the years, I have noticed big changes. So again, to answer your question, it wasn't just one thing. It was a lot of complimentary therapies put together, and then what I call in the book, stick with itness. You know, sticking with it, not just trying it for a short time, really, really incorporating it into my daily self care regimen, right? That's what has made the difference for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 48:49 So here's a question, little bit of a quick question, but you talk about thriving a lot, if you were to and you've talked about unstoppable thriving, how would you distill or what would you say are three major points that lead to being able to be an unstoppable thriver, if you will?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 49:06 Oh, I love this question so much. Michael, okay, so my book is a toolkit of, like, 36 tools that get us to answer this question. But I'm going to give you my top three, and I think the very first one is, is really deep self care and self compassion. When things like this happen, we tend to think, Okay, I'll take better care of myself. I'll eat right, or I will exercise more, whatever it happens to be in your own situation, there is something called robust self care and robust self compassion that's really about giving your body everything it needs to heal. If you need to sleep 12 hours a night, that's what you've got to do. And and we all say, Oh, I don't have time for that. You know, I got a busy life. I've got a. These other responsibilities and commitments. I don't have time for that, but that's what your body often needs, is that level of of really deep self care and and when things happen to us again, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritual, dark, Night of the Soul, whatever it happens to be, we tend to think of our bodies and ourselves as betraying us, as being the enemy. I hear my clients say this all the time, and there was a point early on when I was like that. It's like my body has betrayed me. How could this happen? I'm young, I've I'm active, you know, I'm doing all the right stuff. From every standpoint, doctors would say you're doing everything exactly right, and yet I had all this stuff going on. We think our bodies betrayed us, but our bodies and this is a wonderful book by Dr Gabor Mate, who writes, When the body says no, our bodies are sending us loving signals of pain. They're telling us when we need to stop doing stuff or cut back or rest. You know, allergies, anxiety, pick, pick anything you know, arrhythmia, pick anything your body is sending you a signal, we have to say. And this has been hard for me, because recently, I've had some a resurgence of some knee problems, and they were pretty debilitating, and we thought I was going to need knee surgery, you know, that I've been avoiding since I was, like, 14 years old. We thought I was really close to it, and it was really hard to say to my knee, oh my goodness, my beautiful hard working me. You have helped me so much in my life. I'm listening to you and doing deep inquiry. What are you trying to tell me? What am I doing wrong here? Right? I needed more rest. I simply needed more rest. I'm thrilled to say that problem over a few months, and with physical therapy and with doing all the right things, I'm back to walking again. I'm walking as much as I did before. So, so it's about, you know, at one point last year, when my mom had multiple myeloma and was in hospital and then hospice, and incredibly stressful time, I started having arrhythmia. I've never had arrhythmia before. I had to, you know, practice what I've been saying in my book and take a deeper dive and say my wonderful, hard working heart. What is up? Why is this happening to me? Right? So, so it's that is, that is self care and self compassion. So that's that's one big piece, and to be able to get into that dialog with ourselves in our very busy, highly interrupted, device driven world, it's hard to slow down and listen. But that brings me to my second point, and that is really listening to what I call our inner healer. Our inner healer is our intuition. It is our gut instinct, if you will, our bodies. And we knew this when we were children, right? We had instincts. We listen to our instincts. If you walk into a room and there's a person and you don't like that person, you don't hang around that person, you try to get away. It could be, you know, a certain food that you didn't like as a kid, you just didn't want to eat it. Right? As we become adults, you know, whether it's societal conditioning or or we have very busy lives, and we just fall into patterns, or whatever. We stop listening so much, and when we get still, hard to find the time, I know, but even 10 minutes of quiet time where we go out in nature, we go for a walk, we just sit quietly in meditation. I've been meditating since my early 20s. I I love meditation. I know. I recognize it's not for everyone. My clients tell me it's not you know for them necessarily. And we find other ways, but, but, but finding something that connects you with yourself, where you can listen to your dreams, where you can listen to your intuition, follow your gut instincts about what feels right for you, if, if something doesn't feel right, don't push yourself to do it and and that is something that I think it can be very, very hard for us in our in our modern age, to slow down enough and do. And I alluded to this the third one earlier, finding our medicine. Nature is medicine, creativity is medicine, as I found sound healing, Reiki, energy, their medicine. What is your medicine to all of our listeners out there? What is your medicine? Do you know what your medicine is? What brings you joy? What makes time fly, where you just don't even realize how much time has has transpired? Those things really, really help us to to find that joyful, happy place where we're in the flow and and, as I mentioned by the book I I referenced cured, that is healing, but also what we what we've been talking about so much, which is your mind is your medicine? How can you harness the power of your mind to heal, whether it's visualizing, telling yourself affirmations, just stopping yourself when you get to the point where you're going down the dark rabbit hole, just saying, Oh, there I go again. Yeah, going to that place. Let me. Let me just stop that and choose something different. Like we said, everything's a choice. Choose something different is making your mind your medicine. Those are my top big three. I mean, the whole the science behind this is, you know, everything in the universe, as Albert Einstein and Tesla Nikola, Tesla told us, and lots of other scientists, everything is energy. Everything vibrates. If everything is energy, our thoughts, our our words, our actions, our feelings, our energy. So choose the good stuff, right? You know, catch yourself when you're when you're, when you're and we look, we all have days, I have them regularly where I find myself getting in a bit of a snarky mood or something, and, you know, things just aren't going quite right, or I'm not feeling quite right, and I go to that bad place, but I quickly say, ah, Kathy, there you go. You're going to that place. What can we choose that would be more positive. That is a choice of energy, and energy is healing? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:06 well, we only have a few minutes, but I have a couple of quick questions for you. Hopefully they're quick. You've talked about sound healing and a sound bath, but not everybody can make it to a place to get a sound bath. How can they deal with sound healing at home?   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 57:23 I love that question, and I can make it brief. Okay, so, so we don't necessarily have to go to a sound bath or a yoga studio to get sound healing. Many things in our lives, our voice. We don't need special equipment. We've got a voice. Right coming singing have been found. DR. DR, Jonathan Goldman has been writing about this for decades, the power of the humble hum. It connects our ear to our vagus nerve, the wandering nerve through our bodies that touches all the organs that controls heartbeat, blood pressure, all the things we never think about, coming and singing are hugely stimulating. That's one thing, percussive tapping on our body. I happen to be a drummer, so I tend to drum. Drum is rhythmic. It's the sound of our mother's heartbeat when when we were in the womb and and it it helps us to settle into a place of of coherence. And so those are just two small things that have very, very big benefit. We can just tap on our, on our, on our, our chest bone, or there's a thing called Emotional Freedom tapping EFT, where you tap on different parts of the body. I have written to make this really brief, Michael, I've written an article about sound healing. I also have another article about your mind is your medicine, and another one about the power of intuition. Three articles in yoga magazine, the people can find for free on my website. And we'll, we'll get later. Yeah, so   Michael Hingson ** 59:04 an observation, and then two quick questions. It's, you know, there's an advantage of having lived on the earth a while and having a memory. I remember when the United States started interacting with China during the Nixon administration. And somewhere on the line, we started to hear about this thing called acupuncture that we had never really heard of before, and a lot of people poo pooted and so on. And now it is a much more common mechanism that is used. It was even used on Roselle, my guide dog who was with me in the World Trade Center when she developed some back problems, and it and it helped. But the reality is, just because it isn't something that goes along with the traditional Western medicine approach, and even my doctor at Kaiser will say this, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Work and that it is invaluable, because it is and we really need to to look at all options. Having said that, let me ask you this. You said that you have a free gift for anybody listening. Can you tell us about that? I   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:00:17 do? I do. Oh, good. Oh, good. Acupuncture, I would just add, it's much like sound healing. You know, it's been around for 1000s of years.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:26 It's been around a long time. It's just that we haven't had exposure to it,   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:00:30 that's right. And acupuncture was one of the things on my when I said I use very many modalities. I did, I've done a lot of acupuncture over decades. So yes, I'm a big believer in acupuncture, part of why it works is because the same as the chakra system in Indian Ayurvedic medicine, right? These are the energy centers of the body, and they can get blocked. So here's the free gift, Michael, I'm thrilled to be able to offer this to to our listeners today at my website, and we'll link the Earl at the at the very top, you can you can access this for free. Dr Charlize Davis, a doctor of functional medicine, and fellow Reiki master and I, have put together a few modules called Healing the heart chakra. And she comes from the medical perspective of saying, when your heart chakra is blocked, what does that turn up with? As in your, in your, in your health, you know, sure, the heart, of course, the lungs, yeah. But shoulders, shoulder issues, all kinds of things. And she goes into this in great detail. And then I come at it from the perspective of what we were just talking about, the chakra, what a blocked heart chakra feels like. What is happening in your life that that would tell you that your heart chakra is is blocked. It's more than just, I don't feel love. I mean, that's a common thing, but there's, it's way more than that. And then the best part of the free gift you'll learn about all of these things. And then the best part, I think, is that I do a sound bath geared toward balancing and opening the heart chakra, and I also give Reiki energy during that. And Dr Charlize, as a as a Reiki Master, also gives Reiki energy throughout the sound bath as well. So it's really powerful.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:26 There's a link to all of that on there's a link to that all on the website.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:02:29 It's at the very top of the website. So tell us   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:33 your tell us what your website is and how people can reach out to you. Because I'm assuming that you you do interact with people all over   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:02:41 I do. I do sound baths. I do individualized sound baths, which target to your very specific issues. So how do people reach out to you? My website is suffering to thriving.com. And there they can. They can reach out to me. They can learn more about my work. They can look at my book, suffering to thriving. They also can connect with all of my social media, and they can access how to work with me and email me from that place as well. So it's all right there at the website, on the home page, at the bottom, there are more podcasts and articles, lots of free article content too, if anyone's interested in exploring this at a deeper level, so suffering   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:25 to thriving.com. Well, that's right, Kathy, I want to thank you for being here and giving us so much information. There's a lot of very invaluable stuff here, and I hope people will listen and have an open mind, because the reality is, the more we explore, the more we learn, and the more we learn, the more we can put into practice, and the more we do, especially for ourselves, the better we'll be. So I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening today. This has been fun, and I hope that you have found it fun. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what you think. About our episodes and this one today, in specific, feel free to email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or you can email me at speaker. At Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S o, n.com, I would also invite you to wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star rating. We value your reviews, your input, and especially your your five star ratings whenever you feel inclined to do so. So please give us a five star rating. If you know of anyone who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, let us know. Email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com introduce us, and we'll go from there. And of course, Kathy, same for you. If you know anyone, we'd love to hear from you. But one more time, I'd like to thank you for being here and for taking the time. To be with us today.   Kathy Harmon-Luber ** 1:05:01 Thank you, Michael, it has been just a delight, and thank you for the beautiful work that you do.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:11 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Welcome to CHNR Eps. 260 Today we are handing over 2 full hours to freind of the show Harvey Wallbanger with a Live set recorded in Victorville, CA Listen to this mixshow live with any of our Syndicated online radio partners in Club Sabroso Radio Network in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic or listen on demand. 

A contrails study by GE Aviation and NASA, an F-15E Strike Eagle downs drones, Iberia's new A321XLR in service, the Phillippine Mars moves to its final destination, an airliner and a UAP come close together, Spirit Airlines files for bankruptcy, and the environmental impact of private jets. Also, AvGeeks flock to Bluesky, a STEM author at the NASM, and F-35B trials on a Japanese flattop. The contrails of an Airbus A340 jet, over London, England. Photographed by Adrian Pingstone in March 2007. Aviation News GE and NASA to accelerate understanding of contrails The "Contrail Optical Depth Experiment" (CODEX) is a research project conducted through a NASA and GE Aerospace partnership to study the formation and behavior of contrails. Contrails are clouds of ice particles that airplanes can create when they fly through cold and humid air. Persistent contrails are thought to contribute to climate warming. The primary goal of CODEX is to accurately measure the optical depth of contrails, which indicates how much light is blocked by the contrail. In the project, a GE Boeing 747-400 creates the contrails and NASA's G-III research aircraft (a modified Gulfstream III business jet) follows and scans the 747's wake with Advanced LiDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) technology to analyze the contrails produced by different engine configurations. This will hopefully lead to the development of engine technologies that reduce contrail formation. NASA Gulfstream G-III NASA's Armstrong Flight Research Center in Edwards, California, operates the Gulfstream G-III aircraft, NASA tail number 804, as an aerodynamics research test bed. Work with the aircraft is funded through NASA's Aeronautics Research Mission Directorate (ARMD) as part of the Environmentally Responsible Aviation (ERA) project under the agency's Integrated Systems Research Program. GE 747-400 Flying Test Bed Since 2010, this former Japan Airlines plane has been used by GE to test new jet engines, such as the GE90, GEnx, LEAP, and the GE9X. The plane is based at Flight Test Operations (FTO) in Victorville. F-15E Pilot Recounts Having To Switch To Guns After Missiles Ran Dry During Iranian Drone Barrage An F-15E Strike Eagle shot down so many Iranian drones aimed at Israel that they ran out of air-to-air missiles. The crew was ordered to continue and use any weapon available, which left the Strike Eagle's 20mm Gatling Gun, capable of firing around 6,000 rounds per minute. Operating this gun is said to be risky with small, low, slow-moving targets. In this instance, the F-15 did not stop the drone. Feel Sorry For the Flight Attendants: Iberia's New A321XLR Long-Haul Jet Features Tiny Galleys That Even Contortionists Would Struggle to Work in Iberia is the launch customer of the Airbus A321XLR (extra long range) single-aisle jet. The airline is flying the plane on a Madrid and Boston route. According to Saffran, the Airbus SpaceFlex V2 galley and lavatory allows for 6 more seats in the A321. The Airbus Space-Flex galley and lavatory concept. Airbus says the A321XLR features a 4,700 nm range, 180-220 seats, and 30% lower fuel burn per seat than previous generation aircraft. The plane was launched in 2019 at the Paris Air Show. Compared to other A320 family aircraft, the A321XLR carries more fuel, has strengthened landing gear, and includes a revised wing trailing-edge flap for takeoff performance. Airbus offers two engine options: the CFM LEAP-1A and the Pratt & Whitney PW1100G. The first A321XLR was delivered to Iberia on 30 October 2024 and conducted its first revenue flight on 6 November 2024. The first long-haul flight with passengers was on 14 November 2024, from Madrid to Boston. Martin Mars To Visit San Francisco, San Diego On Final Flight The Philippine Mars is destined for the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tucson, Arizona. In preparation, the plane is undergoing taxi tests in Port Alberni, British Columbia.

The Lincoln Lawyer season 3 episode 5 brings peril. Tracey, Pete and Mike discuss episode 5 of The Lincoln Lawyer season 3 ‘What Happens in Victorville'. Haller and Associates lose one of their own after Mickey digs deeper into the resume of DEA Agent James De Marco. Mickey receives repeated warnings about his plan to […] The post The Lincoln Lawyer: Podcast for season 3 episode 5 appeared first on So Many Shows!.

As Unstoppable Mindset regular listeners know I have been a keynote public speaker for 22 and a half years. I love it when I get to have a conversation with coaches and experts whose specialty is to help all of us communicate and converse better. Tina Bakehouse, our guest this time, takes communication coaching to a whole new level. As she says, her process is a holistic one.   Even as a child in rural Iowa Tina liked to perform and tell stories. As she grew she sharpened her skills. She has received two bachelors degrees and a Master's degree as well. All are in one way or another concerned with communications and performing.   Tina brings her knowledge of the theater and on-stage performing to her work helping leaders and others to learn how better to connect with their colleagues and others around them. We talk a great deal about good and effective communications. Lots of good advice and many good suggestions and ideas will be found in our episode this time. Tina offers concepts that can help anyone wishing to communicate and connect better with those around them.   About the Guest:   Protecting audiences from boring speakers and speeches, Tina Bakehouse has started her own company, Tina B LLC, to provide holistic communication consulting and coaching to help heart-centered leaders and organizations internationally and nationally to communicate more effectively. Tina is a published author of the book Discovering Our Magnetic Speaker Within.  With more than 20 years of teaching communication and theatre (10 years as an instructor at Creighton University), a former Walt Disney Cast Member, Leadership Iowa participant, and TEDx speaker and coach, Tina is passionate about educating others to become more self-aware and enhance their authentic speaker style through transformational workshops in improvisation, storytelling, temperament, and communication.  After earning two BAs from the University of Northern Iowa, one in communication studies and psychology, and the second in theatre and English teaching, she completed a master's degree in communication studies from the University of Nebraska-Omaha along with certificates in Advanced Professional Writing, Keirsey's Temperament theory, Holistic Coaching, and four levels of improvisation training.  Her past positions have included Malvern Bank's Chief Creative Officer, assisting with community development and coordinating financial literacy and educational opportunities for Mills County and Golden Hills RC & D as Outreach & Communication Coordinator, promoting the arts and local foods in southwest Iowa. Tina has performed and coordinated multiple storytelling shows in southwest Iowa, including two teen shows.  She continues to use her creativity, leadership, and passion for the arts to help people communicate effectively and solve problems. Tina lives at Maple Edge Farm, a 150-year old family farm in southwest Iowa, with her husband Jon and son Anderson and her beloved dog Shyla.    Protecting audiences from boring speakers and speeches, Tina B. has more than 20 years of teaching communication and theatre (10 years at Creighton University), a former Disney Cast Member, Leadership Iowa participant, and TEDx speaker and coach, Tina is passionate about others becoming more self-aware and enhancing their speaker style through transformational workshops in improvisation, storytelling, temperament, and communication including clients Practical Farmers of Iowa, First National Bank, FEDx, Children's Hospital, and many more. She's earned 2 BAs from the UNI in communication studies and psychology and theatre and English teaching and a master's degree in communication studies from the UNOmaha. Certificates include: Advanced Professional Writing, Keirsey's Temperament theory, Holistic Coaching, 4 Levels of Improvisation. Tina has published a book with Manuscripts Publishing: Discovering Our Magnetic Speaker Within with Manuscripts Publishing. Her past positions have included Malvern Bank's Chief Creative Officer, Golden Hills RC&D, and Omaha Steaks.   Ways to connect with Tina:   Website: https://www.tinabakehouse.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinabakehouse/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TinaB.LLC Youtube channel: https://www.facebook.com/TinaB.LLC     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset, where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet. You've heard that before, but the unexpected is what's the most fun about this podcast, because it has everything to do with anything except inclusion and diversity. So we get to do that today. Anyway. I'm really glad you're here, and really appreciate you taking the time. Tina Bakehouse is our guest today, and Tina, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Tina Bakehouse ** 01:49 Well, Michael, thank you so much for having me here.   Michael Hingson ** 01:51 Now, I was reading Tina's bio, and I don't want to give too much away, because it'll be fun to talk about all of it, but one of the things that she starts her bio by saying is that she's involved in protecting audiences from boring speakers and speeches. And I'm really anxious to talk about that. I have heard some very boring speeches in my time. Oh, I don't even dare mention names, but I've heard some speeches that were really boring, which is which is no fun. But let's start this way. I love to begin by asking if you could tell us kind of about the early Tina growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Tina Bakehouse ** 02:31 Sure, Michael, I was this little farm kid who grew up in southwest Iowa, and my front porch of this farmhouse became my proscenium stage, and I loved to rope my younger brother and sister into a wide range of performances. We would do little radio talk shows on my Fisher Price, you know, tape recorder, old fashioned style with those little tapes, as well as create scripted performances for my parents' anniversary every year, do dinner theaters and things like that. And I just found this love for the spoken word and for performance. And as I evolved and grew into a young teen, I was part of speech competitions as well as community theater, did the high school musicals and all kinds of experiences of that nature, and went to college and pursued a communication studies and psychology degree. And during that time, I really became fascinated with the idea of, how do we talk to each other, listen to each other, show up in various contexts to connect with each other, because communication is about connection. And I really found love with tapping into learning more about how people work, non verbally, as well as verbally and what really hooks people, because as a child, I loved a great story. I was a humongous fan of Jim Henson and the Muppets, and I always was fascinated how they created story on The Muppet Show and entertain in such a fun, creative way. And that's the power of our voices, is that we can draw people in, and we can bring them to their feet and inspire, motivate action, or we can connect with one another, and in a way, that's a beautiful dance of conversation, and that's that's what I really love doing, and what I found in my journey is guiding people on that, that path of tapping into their inner magnetism, because we all have that ability to communicate with confidence and clarity. So I love the teaching piece. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 05:00 wow, you have said stuff that opens up so many questions, but we'll, we'll try to get to a bunch of them, but I agree with you, and communication is really all about connection, and unfortunately, it cuts both ways, where people connect and and just go by, whatever they go by, and they don't analyze, or sometimes they analyze. But, you know, how do we how do we deal in our world today? You know, I don't like to talk about politics, but leaving out the politics of it, how do we deal with our world today? And I guess it goes back to the beginning of elections ever you've got politicians who say, trust me, and so many people do, and they just look at what the person or listen to what the person says, but never really analyze, and that's a dangerous thing to do. But the people are the politicians are communicating well enough that they just get people to connect. How do we deal with that? Well,   Tina Bakehouse ** 06:05 I think it goes way, way back to Aristotle's logos, pathos and ethos. In every communication context, there's an a target audience, there's an occasion for what people expect to happen, and the context affects and impacts the content. And so asking yourself in terms of logos, that's tapping into the logic of content and researching, getting that background information and being aware if you're speaking at a conference, or if you're going into a networking event. Or, if you are a politician, it's acknowledging speaking to that given geographic area, that demographic, and doing your research ahead of time. That's the logos piece. That ethos is the credibility of really getting the ethical of showing up in truth. And you mentioned, you know, saying, trust me, trust me. Well, that's on you as the speaker, to be full of integrity and to say what you mean and mean what you say, and you do so with consistency of showing up and being in your being. And the final piece is the pathos. It's that emotional appeal of really speaking from the heart. It's that balance we can get very heady. And I think in today's world, it's maybe even a challenge to tap into the heart, because we we can argue with each other, not meet each other in the middle. And I think if, if we can find, and I've found this in my experience, is do what intuitive abraham hicks talks about, and that is segment intending, and you set an intention prior to the communication and be with yourself Like have self awareness, because communication intelligence, or even conversational intelligence, comes from self awareness of Do you regulate your emotions appropriately? How do you think about the upcoming audience, the event, the content of your message? Because if you don't sit with that prior, you're going to influence and impact how the message lands, it may not land at all. And so I would say really being self aware first, because that will ground you. And once you get grounded into your own energy and awareness of the situation, then you can meet the other where they are. But you're right. We're in challenging times where we tend to have conversations with people that have the same belief system, and I've really been of a mindset in the last while, just to get curious and ask questions. I remember years ago when I was traveling in the Serengeti and had the opportunity to meet this beautiful doctor who had been practicing medicine for many, many years, and he was in his 80s and still practicing medicine, and he was from South Africa, and he would, just as this year, adite, he would share and bestow upon me so much knowledge, information and expertise. And as we were saying our goodbyes, he I asked him for advice. At the time, I was a professor at a university, I said, What should I tell my students in this communication class? What advice do you have? And he said, Tina, always be curious and always ask good questions for that's never failed me in 50 years plus of practicing medicine. So if we get compassionately curious about the other and know that they have their own experiences in story that's going to influence how our influence with how we communicate. And   Michael Hingson ** 09:48 I absolutely buy that, and I subscribe to it. It just seems to me, and I read about it often today, we have so many people who. Just seem to have lost or never had the art of conversation, and they don't want to converse. How do we deal with that?   Tina Bakehouse ** 10:09 That is a challenge, absolutely. You know, obviously we don't have control over someone else's choices, right, their behavior, and so it's meeting the audience or the other where they are. And so that could be a person who's more of a closed communicator, where they might be more focused on systems and working with things and being with things, not people, or they may have they're blocked because of some negative experience we simply don't know. Yeah, and again, it's meeting them where they are. So for example, I've encountered closed communicators before, and so I really just observe first, instead of just coming into their little bubble, non verbally, and break through that bubble. The theater person in me has learned very quickly the the pandemic gave us that six feet bubble, which I think is actually important before you break through. That is approach with compassion, because some people are not comfortable with that, and just observe and be with that person first, and maybe just ask a question and see where it lands. Tune into their nonverbal cues. Tune into their paralanguage as as their tone of voice. And if they're terse with you, it which can happen, I think it's, it's acknowledging, you know, thank you for even this time, and being you know, full of appreciation for who they are and be okay with maybe it's not the right time, and you're capitalizing on a hard time for that person. Maybe make a request, like, Hey, I'd be interested in having a conversation. Maybe it's the wrong channel, a phone call would be better. Or maybe it's just a direct exchange via email, which they would be more comfortable with in terms of they just have severe social anxiety. So it's first, observe, listen, notice more, and meet them where they are, and get and get into being okay with that they may not want to have a conversation, and you simply can't control because all communication has a sender and receiver, and it's a two way street. And so sometimes you have to, if you're going the wrong way on a one way, you got to turn around and say, you know, thank you, and be of good peace, centered energy, and move move forward.   Michael Hingson ** 12:35 Yeah, it is. It is so difficult. I think a lot of the whole issue with the art of conversation today, especially when you're dealing with the political world and so on, is that so many of us are locked into attitudes and our own positions to the point where there's no room To discuss or to even consider giving an inch, and we really need to get away from that. It doesn't mean that we need to change our opinion, but it's really more about listening than it is about conversing absolutely   Tina Bakehouse ** 13:14 and just from from communication theory, converting someone and their belief system takes multiple multiple multiple communications, and generally that may not even their belief system. So absolutely, I think that's a great point. Michael is meeting them where they are, and being open to engaging in discourse with someone who has a very different perspective and ask those questions and listen and really listen, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 13:46 and I think that's really the issue for me personally, going back to being curious, I love to talk to people who have different viewpoints than mine, and I would hope at least when I'm conversing and talking, my goal isn't to convert. I don't think that should be my job. If, if I say something that causes somebody to think differently, that's fine, but my goal is to listen and learn and understand. And I think that's what we really need to see more in the world. And you know, some people really don't care about the facts, and it's, it's amazing, but that's not my choice.   Tina Bakehouse ** 14:28 Well, right there, there are high elaborators and low elaborators. It's the elaboration likelihood model that was created, I believe, in the 80s. And so you're high elaborators Are those individuals that really extract content and message, and they focus on content more so than the delivery style. Low elaborators Focus on delivery style. So we have more low elaborators in the United States and world, I would say that get impact. Very much tuned into how the person delivers with their tone of voice, with their charisma that draws people in. And with that being said, I think it's really crucial to be aware that, because we have this distinct way in which we choose to listen that everybody. It's so empowering if they, if we, people just want to be seen, they just want to be heard. They want to have a voice and be comprehended in a way that they are authentically who they are, not trying to be anybody else. And that could be different than you, and that's okay, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:37 and it, and it should be, I think it's so much fun to have conversations. As I said, I love to learn, and very frankly, that's what I get to do on all of these podcasts. And as I tell people, if I'm not learning at least as much as anybody else, I'm not doing my job very well, because I want to really learn a lot of things you you talked about the you talked about the Muppets before, and I can't help it. I'm gonna have to spring one thing, and that is, I remember the original Muppet Movie. And there was at one point when somebody, and I can't remember which Muppet it was, said something like, I am just beside myself. And this real quick. And it took me several times at watching the movie to hear the response, which was, yeah, and how did the two of you live with each other? It was just something that happened so fast that they're just so they were so and, you know, those who do it still are so creative,   Tina Bakehouse ** 16:30 absolutely and witty and timely and really just good natured, which it's refreshing,   Michael Hingson ** 16:39 and it's just so much fun,   Tina Bakehouse ** 16:41 absolutely, I mean, I was grateful, because that was my era of my childhood, to have updated movies in their in 2011 and I believe even a year or two past that, where they had actors with the Muppets again. And it was just playful and fun and delightful and physical comedy, fun, self deprecating comedy that was not, you know, hateful or mean, which was very, very refreshing.   Michael Hingson ** 17:12 No, Miss piggy's mean.   Tina Bakehouse ** 17:17 No, she's not, she's   Michael Hingson ** 17:19 not mean, she's not. Mean, do you ever watch 60 minutes?   Tina Bakehouse ** 17:24 I don't. I have not. I mean, I did years ago, every once while with my parents, but I haven't for years and years,   Michael Hingson ** 17:32 one my favorite 60 minutes of all time, and I'd love to get a copy of it. Had morally safer interviewing Miss Piggy. Oh, funny. Well, yeah, let's just say the interview really went the other way. She was just on him. It was so funny. She got him speechless. She kept calling him Morty instead of Morley, and just all sorts of it was absolutely the most hilarious Muppet, or well, our Miss Piggy thing I've ever seen, she was great. I was she   Tina Bakehouse ** 18:04 should be on 60 minutes. Yeah? They just play with language, they have fun, and they're just in the moment. They're in that improvised, fully present moment. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 18:14 well, tell me a little bit about your your thoughts about being a speaker and rescuing audiences from boring speakers and so on. What are some of the big mistakes you think that most speakers make, or that a lot of speakers may? I don't want to say most speakers. I won't be a stereotype soul, but what do you what do you think are the mistakes that speakers make that make them so boring to people?   Tina Bakehouse ** 18:41 Well, I think more times than not, we're very egocentric. We think the speech is about ourselves. And I think that that is a false, false mindset. And in the process of writing and publishing my book, discovering our magnetic speaker within I worked with and communicated with a wide range of speakers whom I actually witnessed magnetism. One keynote speaker and an actual Communication Coach mentioned, it's about serving your audience. If you show up, all about them, it's a we thing. And I, even with the title of my book, I did get some critique on Well, why don't you have discovering your magnetic speaker within as the title? Well, it's not a your thing. It's an our thing. If you, if you give a speech and no one's choosing to listen, did it ever really happen? And it depends on an audience. So I would say that that's the number one faux pas in I've been guilty occasionally This too is and I've had to shake myself out of it is okay. It's doing that audience analysis and really focusing in on what does this audience need to. Know, want to know, and what did they know already, and start with what they know and build into the new information and that foundationally assist in your preparation for a given presentation. So I would say some mistakes. The first one is that the speaker makes it about them and not a service or serving the audience. So being audience centered is essential. It's the foundation to be magnetic and to be engaging. A second mistake is that, and I'm going to go back to the self, that we tend to have an inflated view of how good we are as speakers. So that comes from lack of preparation. Some people just show up. And there are gifted speakers that have a heart centered space, and they can maybe do very light to little preparation. But by and large, people have a warped perception of how good they are. It's sort of like, how, if I were to ask you, how fast can you run a mile? It's very measurable. You can say, you know, whether or not you could do it in 10 minutes or less. But if I said, Are you an effective magnetic speaker? Well, that's very abstract. So we we really and I even think audiences, they know it when they feel it, and feelings are so abstract. And think of all the different energies that are within and composed in an audience that, you know, everybody has different experiences, different perceptions, etc. So that's the other piece, another mistake. And finally, I would say, in addition to, you know, the audience centeredness and the the Warped perception, or unclear perception of our abilities, is, again, a big mistake, is not being flexible in the moment and being aware of, well, if, especially when you're facilitating a workshop, I really tune into what does the audience need in this moment? And so I have a foundational, prepared, two hour workshop, but it looks feels differently for each given audience because of what I get from them. It's it's like a tennis match, it's a back and forth dance, and so being flexible and even being able to refer to a previous speaker, if you're a keynote speaker in a given conference and you've heard the other speakers, I think that that can really impact and it's engaging with story and balancing that with data. So that's the biggest one, is think about the audience. Think about the self, and think about the content that you embed, the story,   Michael Hingson ** 22:49 one of the well, when I, when I give a speech and and I've done certainly, bunches of them, and I can tell the same story. People always want to hear about the World Trade Center. But what happens is I believe that I don't talk to an audience ever. I believe I talk with an audience. I think that's extremely important, and when I am giving a speech, I do know that there are certain things that I can say that I've learned to believe should probably get specific kinds of reactions from the audience, and when I say a particular thing, I can tell whether I'm connecting with the audience or Not, and I have absolutely changed on the fly. But again, I can tell the same story, but the intonations and other aspects of it may be totally different for one audience from another or over another, and I think that's extremely important, because my job is to connect with the audience. And you're right. I want to really understand them, know what they want, know what they need. I love whenever I'm going to speak somewhere is to go and hear other speakers who speak before me. I don't mind doing the opening speech, and I've done that before, but I love to speak later, because I get to learn more about the audiences and learn so much from them. But I do believe that it's all about talking with the audience. They have to be part of it.   Tina Bakehouse ** 24:30 Oh, absolutely, I love that you bring that up. In fact, I've, I've said that to so many clients. Do you want to be a presenter or a communicator so you can either present at your audience, which is very performative to your audience, which is more presentation, or with them, which is what much more of a conversation. And honestly, I think when you frame it that way, it does take the load off your shoulders of that anxiety and apprehension that we tend. To put on public speaking, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:02 and, and you're absolutely right, when, when I discovered doing it that way did so much more to connect with the audiences. You're right. It absolutely took a lot of the pressure off, and it made the speech more fun for me, and making it more fun for me made it more fun for the audience as well. Oh,   Tina Bakehouse ** 25:27 they love seeing you have fun. In fact, they're they're having fun right right alongside you.   Michael Hingson ** 25:32 Yeah. And sometimes, in the middle of a speech where I'm supposed to be doing a speech, I'll ask questions.   Tina Bakehouse ** 25:38 Oh, yes, rhetorical question. That's a great not   Michael Hingson ** 25:42 even rhetorical. I want them to answer. Wait to get answers, which is a lot of fun, and then I incorporate that into what I'm doing. And it's so much fun to do. But again, it's it's involving them. I don't necessarily do a lot of that, but I do some of that, and it depends on the audience. Sometimes I will try to draw them out more than at other times. I learned when I was doing professional sales that the best salespeople are really teachers, and they're also the best learners, and what they should do is never ask a closed ended like yes or no question, but always ask open ended questions in order to learn more about what the audience or the the customer needs, and that is so important to be able to do, and it is just as true when you're dealing with speaking to an audience,   Tina Bakehouse ** 26:35 absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that's   Michael Hingson ** 26:39 so much and it's so much fun.   Tina Bakehouse ** 26:41 Yes, it is. When   Michael Hingson ** 26:43 did you publish your book?   Tina Bakehouse ** 26:45 Well, I just published October of 2023, with manuscript publishing. So it's pretty fresh, hot off the press. And I, prior to that, worked with Georgetown University in their book creators group and got accepted into their publishing program with their manuscript publishing, and then this just yesterday, I did my rerecords for my audiobook with my producer and updated the manuscript. So that's on its way to be potentially up and running late spring, early summer. So that's exciting.   Michael Hingson ** 27:17 That will be great. Yes, I will. I will want to read that when it comes out in in a readable form.   Tina Bakehouse ** 27:25 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, the the hard I have a hardcover, I have an ebook, I have a paperback, and then I'll have audio, so four different styles and trying to meet all those different learners in the way they prefer to download information. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 27:43 So how does your temperament impact your communication with other people?   Tina Bakehouse ** 27:50 Temperament is essential. It's part of the journey of awareness. I'm certified in Keirsey Temperament, and what I found in that journey of learning more and more about his work. And Kirsi David kirsiza was a social psychologist that did a lot of work, building off of what we know as Myers Briggs psychological insight of the self, and he did more listening and observing and noted that who we are is about 50 ish percent, just in our DNA makeup, that it just That's who we are, and the other part is the environment. So our personality is built with this equation of temperament, which is your natural born in inclinations, your DNA, to use words, behave, work, communicate and lead in a certain way, and then the environment or character in terms of what you are nurtured, the type of people you were around, the experiences that you've had that definitely impact who you are, temperament, I have found has been a beautiful insight and tool, not just for myself as a communicator, but to draw out of my clients the best, most magnetic communicator that they can be. So it's first acknowledging what is their core value, because they speak to that and when you are aware that you're more of a random communicator than a sequential one, that is helpful in team meetings, because as a random and I'm very much a random creative, I can drive a very logical, sequential meeting facilitator or person, frankly frustrated, and I found that I have to really negotiate and navigate those situations, and being flexible with my style. Sequential takes me extra work, but it makes sense when you speak, you need a sequence, a beginning, a middle and an. End, and I have to work extra hard because I have these random squirrel, squirrel, squirrel thoughts and acknowledge that moments of that are okay, but if I did that all the time, people would struggle being able to follow the message, particularly when people Yeah, yes. So that's an important piece, the other part of your temperament that I believe is very helpful to be aware of, is your propensity to use abstract and have a preference for abstract words or concrete, and we use both as human beings. But if I'm much more, love philosophies, love the abstracts and using metaphor and analogy. But I know if I sat in that space all the time, and I wouldn't reach 90% of the audience, which are much more preference preference to concrete and so it's it's having the sensory details and all of that as well. So that self awareness is huge. It also helps them. Once you're aware of your own core value and how that impacts how you communicate. It's then seeing the other three with clarity, and when you are able to be aware of, oh, that some people really have a various core value, I need to there's some people in the audience that really value just having fun, whereas others want to have more of the knowledge and the credibility, and they value that much more. So you want to balance those out. If you have too much knowledge and data, that's going to be heavy on the scale and and go over the audience's heads, but if you're all about the fun and have no depth, that, again, lacks balance. So temperament, really, I think, supports your influence as a persuasive communicator, because your audience has two choices, to tune you out or choose to listen. Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 31:57 and as, as I said earlier, one of the things that that I work hard at is knowing how my audience is accepting what I say by different phrases that I might use, that I've learned get a specific kind of reaction, and if I don't get it, then I'm clearly not doing something right, and I have to work on it. But I also agree that it it really varies from audience to audience. What's the audience looking for, and how does the audience feel? And on one day, an audience may go one way and and the same group of people may react differently. Another time,   Tina Bakehouse ** 32:36 Oh, absolutely. I mean, it could be time of day you're presenting. It could be something that's going on the morale of the organization, if you're doing a corporate presentation and they just got some bad news or something, didn't you know land Well, absolutely, that's a great point.   Michael Hingson ** 32:51 Well, I also think that there, there are different kinds of techniques that speakers can use. One of the things that frustrates me is going into a speech, listening to a speech, where really what they're doing is projecting a PowerPoint on a screen and just reading the PowerPoint, yeah, where? Where is the real value in that?   Tina Bakehouse ** 33:18 Right? And death by PowerPoint, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:22 and I see it way too often. Oh, absolutely.   Tina Bakehouse ** 33:26 And I think what's really important is using the different learning styles and embedding that throughout your talk, if you're doing a formal keynote workshop, etc, and being aware that you tend to favor your own learning style. I'm very much an audible learner. That includes stories. I love listening to podcasts. I love analogies. I love puns and alliteration, all of that that's beautiful, but if I only do that, I'm really missing out on the visual learners who do appreciate a picture, a quick video clip, maybe a prop, etc. And the kinesthetic learners who love movement like buy a show of hands or what word comes to mind and you have them yell something out or talk to your partner about that's really helpful, of balancing those different styles as well as the written form to reflect on the content of your message. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 34:25 I think one of the advantages potentially I have as a speaker is compared to most people, I'm different. How often do they hear a blind speaker? And the advantage of that is that I do get to study audiences, and I've been to a couple of places where, as it turns out, they were very uncomfortable with a person who was blind speaking, and my job was to work to get a more favorable reaction by the end. And there's one. Time that I didn't, and it turns out it was a very elderly group, and most of them, for whatever reason, weren't even really hearing what I had to say. But I didn't find that out till later. Oh,   Tina Bakehouse ** 35:10 sure, which is no fun. You add, yeah, that would be a challenge. I I would say, I'd be curious, Michael, if you can really tune into energy, because you don't, you don't get to see nonverbal cues. I would love to hear your perspective on the how do you read an audience in your world?   Michael Hingson ** 35:30 So I think that when when dealing with an audience, a cue may not be verbal, but there are a lot of other ways to tell what's going on. How fidgety is the audience, what kinds of background noises Do I hear or don't hear at one point, usually when I'm telling the world trade center story, I talk about the fact that we were on the 30th floor and firefighters were coming up the stairs, and the first one stops right in front of me, and he and he says, you know, are you? What are you? Okay? And I say, Sure. And he says, we're going to send somebody down the stairs with you to make sure you get out. Of course, I have to imitate his New York accent. So it's, we're going to send somebody down the stairs which you to make sure you get out. And I go, which, W, i t y, a witcha and and I say, Look, I don't need any assistance. I'm okay. I came down from the 78th floor. I really can. Can do just fine. And we go over it a little bit. And finally, I say, Look, I got my guide dog here. And he goes, Oh, what a nice dog. And he pets the dog without asking, and I say to the audience, so let me tell you, unlike what the firefighter did, don't ever pet a dog without asking, because the dog is in harness. They're working. So I got to sneak that lesson in. But anyway, then i i finally say, I've got a colleague here who can see and so the guy lets me go without needing to escort me down the stairs. And I explained why I didn't want his assistance, or anyone's assistance, for a lot of reasons. They don't know how to walkside a guy with a blind person, which is a problem. But also, I didn't need them to take someone out of their position, because they're all a big team, and they're going up to fight whatever's going on, and they didn't need to help me go down the stairs. So we finally get beyond that, and this is what I'm leading up to. And the last thing that the firefighter does as he's leaving is he pets Rozelle, my guide dog, and Roselle gives him some kisses, and then I say to the audience, and that may very well have been the last unconditional love that he ever got in his life. And that reaction is what I'm waiting to see, whether it's an intake of breath, whether people just are fidgeting, or whether the audience goes silent. And so there are a lot of ways to get a reaction at various times when I am speaking, or any blind person is speaking, if they learn how to listen for them and learn how to work at it where there is a lot more audio or auditory information available, if you know what to Listen for. So yeah, there are times that it could be a problem, or I'm doing a speech, and I hear every so often, people getting up and leaving and maybe going to the restroom and maybe coming back or not. And again, there are just so many different kinds of aspects that I can use in terms of my delivery and so on to gage how the audience is reacting to what I say and don't say, yeah.   Tina Bakehouse ** 38:46 So I'd be curious. I mean, obviously that's feedback when you're hearing their behavior. So what? When you hear the fidgeting or people leaving? Now, clearly, biological, you know, physiological function, yeah, biology, you know those, there's those moments. But how do you alter what is it that you consider or do in that moment when you're acknowledging, oh, they're fidgeting, this is clearly not landing as I thought, as it did last time in a different group.   Michael Hingson ** 39:18 So one thing I might do is immediately ask a question, like, you know, we're talking about the World Trade Center. Are you okay with me telling this story? Or I might say, you know, tell me a little bit briefly about your own experiences and observations, assuming that they're old enough to remember the World Trade Center. So there are a lot of ways then to re engage them, and I've had to do it occasionally, but when I do, it draws them right back in and again. Yeah, there are bio things that come up and so on. But when I hear a lot of it, then it means that. Different thing than if it's just like one or two people that get up and go out. The other thing that's fun to do, and I love to absorb, observe this, if a room isn't totally crowded, is looking to see if people are sitting in the front of the room, and if there are, I know, empty tables in the front of a room or empty seats. In the course of discussion, I may choose a time to say, you know, I know that the front row seats are really pretty empty. Let's take a break. Why doesn't some Why don't some of you move up to the front of the room? I might see you better, probably not. But the dog will love it. But the dog will love it. You know, again, it's all about engaging the audience, and most of the time, very frankly, I've been fortunate and don't have to do a lot of that.   Tina Bakehouse ** 40:47 Well, I love, I love the tools you you have strategies too, that when that maybe that moment happens, but I appreciate you sharing that.   Michael Hingson ** 40:55 Yeah, and it's, but it's, it's part of what needs to happen as a speaker. There are a lot of ways to get the same information and the assumption that most people have as well non verbal communications, you'll never see it. Don't think so for a minute. There are a lot of ways to get information and see how well the audience is engaged. And again, I've been really blessed that, pretty much for the most part, it works out really well.   Tina Bakehouse ** 41:24 That's wonderful. Now I have   Michael Hingson ** 41:26 given PowerPoint presentations too. When I did sales presentations, I would do PowerPoint shows. But again, what I didn't like to do, although I had a complete Braille script, my Braille script was, was pretty unique, because it had all the words that were on the slides. It also had a description, because we put it in there of what the pictures showed. But for me, it also we, we created the script that also said where on the screen the pictures would show up. So I so I could, for example, point over my shoulder and say, on the left side of your screen you'll see, or on the right side of the screen you'll see, and the value of that is, I never looked away from the audience. I didn't need to turn around to see where things were on the screen. And as I changed slides my laptop, although the lion was loud enough for me to hear, wasn't loud enough for other people to hear. I knew that the slide changed, but I could continue to, if you will, make eye contact with the audience and keep them engaged. And one day, I did one of those, and a guy comes up to me afterward. He said, I'm mad at you. We're all mad at you. And I said, why? He said, Because you gave a very good presentation. It was not boring because I don't read the script. I verbalize what's on the script and add to it. But he said, you your presentation was absolutely not boring. But the big problem was we forgot you were blind because you you never looked away from us. You kept looking at us. And so we didn't dare fall asleep like we do with most presentations. That's wonderful. And of course, my immediate reaction was, well, it was okay if you had fallen asleep because the dogs down here taking notes, and we would have got you anyway, but, but it's, it's all about I think you're absolutely right. It's okay to do PowerPoint presentations, PowerPoint shows, but you don't read what's on the screen. You really need to continue to be a speaker.   Tina Bakehouse ** 43:32 Well, it's called a visual aid for a reason. It's to aid the speaker, support the speaker, be secondary to the speaker. And frankly, I've when I do my TEDx Talk later this year, I have one slide I'm using, and I have a prop, and I'm just sharing information and connecting with my audience, because I feel like you have to really be intentional with how you use those slides, and they need to support your information and not be a crutch like some speakers make them be, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 44:04 usually I'll be talking with whoever's planning the show when they'll ask if they can put a prop up, a picture of the World Trade Center or a picture of my book, Thunder dog or whatever. And I'm fine for them to do that, because they'll show it on screens and all that and that, that works out perfectly well. So, you know, I'm fine with it. And I think there's there again, there's a place for props. And occasionally I will have something else, if I'm doing a talk that is going to involve technology, and a lot of times, people are curious about how I do different things, I will have something up there that I can show so that they can really see how I do the things that they do, although I do them in a different way, and that's fun, too.   Tina Bakehouse ** 44:51 It's that individualized means of being that you are owning your your your style, your authentic speaker style. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 44:59 Yeah, so I understand you lost your voice once. That must have been fun. Fun   Tina Bakehouse ** 45:05 is probably not the adjective it was. It was a unique experience. It was a surprise. I mean, imagine teaching, of all things, public speaking, and I opened my mouth in a sophomore speech class. This was years ago, and nothing comes out, not even squeak. I mean, I've had some hoarseness in the past, but this was I opened my mouth, and nothing came out. And immediately, a student assisted me, got the principal in, and I had to go home because I couldn't teach. I mean, I I finished that class and wrote things on the board, but you can't do that for eight periods in a day. Wow. And what I found during that time, when I came home and it didn't return and it didn't return, I started to panic, yeah, what is happening here? Because this is really, it's like, it's part of my business, it's part of what I do. I'm an educator. If I can't speak, that's that's going to really put a put a wrinkle in what I'm doing with my career. So I decided that I needed support and sought out a speech pathologist, and we went through breathing exercises, and she and she analyzed that I had gone through some anxiety, and it was the anxiety that really tightened up my vocal cords, because I had a very couple tough classes that were challenging And in terms of behavior. And so anxiety was really impacting. The stress was impacting that those vocal cords. So I from her, she then connected me to a larnacologist who specialized in opera singers, and he assessed my vocal cords. And looked at me and went, Uh, you have Vocal cord nodules. And I was like, Oh, no. Julie Andrews, from Sound of Music, had this very thing, and she had the surgery that permanently changed her pitch, made it lower. And he did give me two options. He said you could do the surgery and your voice could change and be lower, or it could remain the same and be more hoarse. Or you can do six weeks of silence and that's no laughing, because that's very hard on your vocal cords, which is hard for me. I'm a gut wrench like the I have a big, hearty laugh. No talking, absolutely no cheating on any of this and whispering is the worst as well. So yeah, it's the worst. So I did the six weeks of silence, and what I found during that time as I had a myriad of one sided conversations, a lot of people popped by, wanted to visit, and I would just listen. People want to be seen, heard, and share their voice, their ideas, their opinions, their stories. And I became very clear that it's all about being fully present, about letting go of what's going on in my head, noticing more of what's being said, not said, and using everything like what's going on in their world, and being impacted potentially by what the other says. Don't not coming in with my own agenda. And that was a powerful experience. And I found, as I was working on this audiobook in January of this past year that my voice was doing the same. I started to squeak a little bit because I was coming, I've been experiencing burnout from nearly a two year stint of running a business and doing this book and having intense deadlines with my publisher, and I found, oh my gosh, I need to meditate. I need to relax. No amount of warm tea, food. It's a myth. Food does not impact your vocal cords, and so it's the warm beverage, the temperature can help soothe but it's being very cognizant of your stress has a bigger impact. And I just learned so much from that experience, and then the weirdness of it happening again years later, it was like a weird parallel experience of okay, lesson learned, take care of thyself, to put forth a voice that you want people to hear for this book.   Michael Hingson ** 49:31 Years and years ago, I attended a training program. It was a one day thing by Ken Blanchard, you know, the One Minute Manager guy and several of us from my company went and he made a comment that good speakers often will drink something warm, like water with lemon and honey before doing a speech, not. Ever milk, because that's the mucus thing. But over, over the years, I developed a taste for tea, and so I have tea in the morning. I'll have a few mugs of tea in the morning, and generally not later in the day. But the warm, the warm liquid, as you say, is very soothing. It does make a difference food, nah, but the tea does help, and it's mainly that it's a warm beverage. I've never been a coffee drinker, but I've grown to like tea, so that works well,   Tina Bakehouse ** 50:33 and especially it's the temperature and the liquid to keep it moist that is helpful, more than anything. But the breathing piece is really, really influential as well, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 50:44 and it's important to do that. Well, you are a communications consultant and coach. How are you different than other people who are communications consultants and coaches? Well,   Tina Bakehouse ** 50:55 I'm a Holistic Communication Consultant coach, where I have that foundation of the more than 20 years of teaching, researching, engaging in the content area from not only the high school level, but the the as a professor at a college or institution. But then also, I come from a spiritual background, and when I work with my clients, I look at them as a soul and and really understanding the mind message mechanics and that it's really tapping into our heart, getting out of those conditioned beliefs and being the loving, wise adults that we're called to be, because that impacts the kind of message you create and then The way you impart it out into the world, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 51:43 and I think that's important. And my impression just in talking with you all this time, is that, although I think there are a lot of people who will do their best to analyze and think about a client, you approach it probably a little bit more unique way from a communication standpoint, so that there's a connection that's probably stronger or more vibrant than a lot of people would have with clients.   Tina Bakehouse ** 52:12 Well, everything is energy, and that people feel your magnetism or lack thereof, and that's why it's coming from the heart, and that will definitely be a stronger, stronger, more influential presentation.   Michael Hingson ** 52:27 So what is your business called? You said you have a business I   Tina Bakehouse ** 52:31 do. It's called Tina B LLC, and I just at the time in 2020 during the pandemic, when I'd been doing this consulting and coaching work on the side for more than a decade. I struggled with the name, and I just thought, well, use my own. And when I say, Hey, Tina, B LLC, yeah, you know me, and people have found it to be very easy to find me and in terms of what I do and how I facilitate the work that I do. It's not only through my magnetic leadership blueprint series, but also my magnetic speaking blueprint series. They're six month programs, and I love doing those individual programs to support people, guide them on their journey, and facilitate virtual and in person workshops and finally, keynotes, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 53:28 which is, which is cool, yeah,   Tina Bakehouse ** 53:30 ranging from yes and leadership within my background in improv to temperament to storytelling and magnetic communication, tell   Michael Hingson ** 53:38 me a little about improv that That must have been fun to learn to do, or how, how did all that come about?   Tina Bakehouse ** 53:45 Well, I have a theater degree, and actually, naturally, it's, it's one of the things that they throw you into to get that experience. And then as I got into my world of the adult hood, I decided my play yard is improv. It's high risk, high reward, and in terms of community theater, I just didn't have the time commitment that that requires. So I still take improv classes. It's my beautiful way of laughing and learning, and it's all about Yes, and which means accept the other in the moment, as it occurs, and add something to it. And I found that this has made such a huge impact, not only on my life, personally, with my relationships, but also in my work life as well.   Michael Hingson ** 54:34 Good to be flexible.   Tina Bakehouse ** 54:35 It is absolutely it's making your partner look good. It's all about that creative piece, the innovation working the brain in such a way that you align with your heart, being in the moment and and tapping into that is just a beautiful experience.   Michael Hingson ** 54:55 Well, you know, one of the things that I'm a little curious about, going back to your business a little bit, is you're. In rural Iowa. How is it doing a business from rural Iowa, Iowa, especially when you have to travel and all that. Where's the nearest airport?   Tina Bakehouse ** 55:07 The nearest airport is Omaha, Nebraska, about 45 minutes away. And really, I'm lucky that we have this thing called technology, because this is how we're connecting zoom, Google meets all of that has been amazing to expand my business nationally and internationally and to feel connected during the pandemic. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 55:25 Well, Omaha is only 45 minutes away, and that's a fairly good sized airport, so that's pretty convenient when you have to travel   Tina Bakehouse ** 55:32 absolutely, absolutely so.   Michael Hingson ** 55:37 And I agree with you. I'm not in a rural area, definitely a suburban area. Victorville is about 8085, miles northeast of Los Angeles, and we're about 40 miles or so from the nearest airport, about 45 to 50 minutes from ontario california airport. But again, figured that out early, and it's a lot easier to go to Ontario airport than going all the way down to Los Angeles to LAX. So   Tina Bakehouse ** 56:06 that works. It absolutely works. Yeah, and,   Michael Hingson ** 56:10 and there's a shuttle service up here so I can travel. But also, zoom works well. Now doing keynotes for me with Zoom isn't as easy, because I don't always get the same kind of ability to distinguish audience reactions, because it's a lot quieter, of course, so that's a little bit more of a challenge.   Tina Bakehouse ** 56:32 Oh, absolutely, you don't get that feedback,   Michael Hingson ** 56:37 no. So it is something to, you know, to deal with.   Tina Bakehouse ** 56:43 Yes, it is. And so I think it's great that you challenge yourself and put yourself out there in that way. Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 56:48 yeah. And I have no problem doing zoom and all that as well. Well, you clearly like to storytell, and I know you get a lot of that from doing theater and so on. Tell me a little bit about telling stories.   Tina Bakehouse ** 57:03 Well, telling stories is just been a part of my my day to day. Being as an oldest of three, I supported my sister learning how to read because I loved a good book like Nancy, Drew books and loved to embody characters by creating, and I found that in my experience, that stories really connect our our ways of being within ourselves and making sense of the world, but with others, because they have high stakes, it's a shared experience that really draws people in, whether you're entertaining at a party or you are presenting formally and everything in between, even facilitating a meeting with your team. And so I've I love anything from a fun story of watching TED lasso, which talk about rich, great characters, and then having that shared experience with my family, to talk about it afterwards, to when I sit down with a great book, whether it's a children's book, or a non fiction or fiction text, and really put myself into the story and learn from that main character, the protagonist to embodying that practice in how I market my business naturally, and how I connect with other people. So it's, it's imperative. I feel like it's, it's part of human nature, because our brains are wired for story, and when we hear a great story, it literally that oxytocin, that that hormone that really supports us wanting to help other people, increases when they tell when we tell stories, which to me, that makes it such a powerful, persuasive tool   Michael Hingson ** 58:56 and nothing like a good story To make life a lot more fun.   Tina Bakehouse ** 58:59 Totally, absolutely, well.   Michael Hingson ** 59:03 As we wrap up, I'd love your thoughts on what you might say to somebody who wants to be a speaker, what are some basic kinds of advice that you would give someone who's looking to speak or to to to involve themselves with other people like that,   Tina Bakehouse ** 59:22 I would say three tips. The first is to analyze, with authenticity, step back and be aware of where does speaking play in your business, in your personal and professional and life in general, and where are you? Where do you want to go, and what is your speaker style? Are you at a level that you're happy with, or do you want to expand and grow? So be be in that analysis phase of, where am I? Where do I want to go? And analyze that very honestly. Second, it's craft your content. In a clear, powerful, purposeful way. Every single speech that I've seen that I've been moved, it's clear that the it moved and mattered to the speaker. So your passion leads your communication. Don't talk about something you don't care about, and put yourself out there in a way that is meaningful and true. My spouse is a farmer. He cares about soil health. That's his mantra, his it's his North Star. So he goes on panels and speaks at conferences about his practices to add diversity the soil. Speak the truth and take the time to prepare. The last is you can perfect your performance or get it to a way that you feel you're anchoring in your confidence by practicing frequently, having a speaker ritual, tapping into those vocal and physical mechanics and eliciting the support of a guide, whether it's a style that you need Real help in terms of crafting the message, which I do that kind of work, or it's getting out of your head because you're in your own way, which is more mindset and heart centered means of being I do that work, or it's just, I know that I've got a great speech, I just can't deliver it. My voice is shaking, or my body gets stiff. That's the mechanics. So eliciting that help from someone who knows what they're talking about can really make an impact and get you there faster. So when you put in the reps, just like if you the Super Bowl was not too long ago, coaches make a difference. They readjust at that, at that, you know, halftime spot, and coaches get you there faster, but it's finding the right support if you are wanting to expand and up level your speaker style, right?   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:48 There's never anything wrong with having a coach and someone to advise and help you and look at what you do objectively, and who's going to be honest back with you,   Tina Bakehouse ** 1:01:57 well, right? And I, I've elicited the help of coaches for my business and for and feedback and support with my presentations as well, because I know I don't know all and I never will. I'm always like you, Michael, learning, growing, stretching, it's a lot more fun. It is a lot more fun. Totally agree. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:17 if people want to reach out to you and maybe talk about you being their coach and all that. How do they do that?   Tina Bakehouse ** 1:02:22 They can reach out to me on my website@tinabakehouse.com, that's Tina T, I n, a, bakehouse B, as in boy, a, k, e, house as in casa.com. And you can certainly find my book. Is there? Resources, videos, my blog, I write a couple of months to support you and guide you in the power of magnetic communications, storytelling strategies and more.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:52 Well, Tina, thank you for being here on unstoppable mindset. Clearly, you have one, an unstoppable mindset that is. And I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to spend a bunch of time and talk about speaking. It's one of my favorite subjects, because I learn every time I get to talk about it, which is, of course, for me, the whole point,   Tina Bakehouse ** 1:03:14 and I learned from you as well. It's a beautiful connection in that regard. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18 we'll have to do more of this absolutely. Well. I want to thank you again, and I want to thank all of you, wherever you are, for listening to us and I guess watching us today, please give us a five star rating wherever you're encountering our podcast. We really appreciate the ratings, especially those five star ones. But if you have any thoughts I'd love to hear from you, feel free to email me. You can reach me at Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or go to our podcast page. That's always a great place to go. He said, with a very prejudiced idea, you can go to www.michaelhingson.com/podcast Michael Hinkson is, m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n, so Michael hinkson.com/podcast love again to hear your thoughts and for all of you and Tina, if you know of anyone else who ought to come on unstoppable mindset, or you think they ought to, I buy it. I'd love to hear from you with any recommendations and introductions that anybody wants to provide. So again, I want to thank you, Tina, for being here and making this happen. This was a lot of fun, and I really appreciate your time.   Tina Bakehouse ** 1:04:32 I appreciate you as well. Thank you for the invitation. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:40 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Firebrand speaker and author of “Killing Sacred Cows”, Garrett Gunderson, joins us to discuss wealth mindset and value creation. Also, Keith touches on the impact of falling interest rates on various loans and the economy noting that lower rates can benefit savers and investors. Historical data shows that home prices have only fallen 6 times in the last 83 years, signaling the rarity of significant price declines.  Learn about the Rockefeller method, which involves using trusts and whole life insurance to preserve and grow wealth. Garrett advocates for investing in real estate, businesses, and intellectual property rather than mutual funds or ETFs. DM Garrett on Instagram to receive a free copy of his book on the Rockefeller method. Resources: GarrettGunderson.com or  Alon Instagram @garrettbgunderson Join our upcoming GRE live event right here! - ‘New Turnkey Properties with ZERO Money Down' on Thursday 10/24. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/522 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai     Keith Weinhold  00:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about what falling interest rates really mean to you. 10 years of the GRE podcast, politics are overrated. How often do home prices fall? The latest in AI generated podcasting and then wealth mindset and wealth preservation all today on get rich education.   00:27 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  01:12 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  01:28 Welcome to GRE from Evansville, Indiana to Victorville, California and across 488 nations worldwide for an entire decade of your life now, this is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what does it mean that we're in an era of falling interest rates from the recent peaks, rates of all types have fallen. Mortgage rates have fallen. The Fed funds rate has fallen, and that prime rate has fallen too. I mean the prime rate that you pay, that's basically the Fed funds rate plus 3% and why the prime rate matters to you is that can affect credit cards, home equity loans, automobile loans and small business loans, every one of them down, down, down. So to any savvy investor that knows what's going on in the 21st century? This can mean celebration for your wallet, for your finances. And look in old days, lower rates, that would be bad news, not good news. And why is this? Well, in olden days, and some people still have an outdated mindset, lower rates are bad because savings accounts used to make sense back in the day, and lower interest rates means lower rates for savers on their bank, savings accounts. Yeah, those 5% online only savings accounts are going to four and a half with the Fed's half point rate cut last month. Well, 100 years ago, you could be a saver. That made some sense, because their interest rates could reliably beat inflation over time, but not today. Today, since inflation transfers wealth from lenders to borrowers and inflation redistributes wealth from savers to debtors. For those like us that understand this and act accordingly, we are indeed the beneficiaries of lower interest rates. Now, there are other effects out there in the economy. Cheaper loans could lead to more m&a activity, more mergers and acquisitions that can benefit investment banks like your Goldman Sachs that facilitates those transactions. Well, what happens to real estate prices amidst lower interest rates? What happens is that they tend to rise now here on the show, you remember that since 2022 I have discussed what has surprised a lot of people. Amidst rising interest rates, the environment that we used to have, home prices tend to rise. And it has happened again. When mortgage rates tripled, prices kept right on rising. So you might wonder, well, wait a second, which is it or I'm confused, amidst rising interest rates, home prices rise and amidst falling interest rates, home prices rise too. And the answer is yes, look at history over hunches. To our newsletter readers, I recently sent you that great chart, a table, I guess it showed the national home price, rate of appreciation or depreciation for every single year, going back to World War Two and from 1942 until today, those 83 years, how many times do you think that home prices fell over the last 83 years? There were exactly six, six of the last 83 years, only six where home prices fell. Paradoxically, interest rates don't have much to do with home prices, and this is all per Case Shiller statistics. Over the last 83 years, there were only six down years. 72 were up. Five were even. And of those six down years in the last 83 five of the six down years were tied up in a once. I mean, it took a once in several generations confluence, a cataclysm of events to occur during the global financial crisis, 2007 to 2011 all at once. Back then, it was a housing supply, surplus, disgustingly lawless mortgage market, cheap credit and a preponderance of debt in the banking system since World War 2, 83 years ago, there was only one other year when home prices fell, that was 1990 when they fell by 1%. If you're waiting for Home prices to fall substantially, it is super unlikely that that is going to happen. Just look at history, and today's market has more than the housing shortage in loads of protective homeowner equity, which means low delinquency rates, and we have permanently inflated higher prices baked into replacement costs of all kinds, land, architecture, engineering, permitting, regulation, labor, building, equipment, construction materials all over the place, but us, you know, as real estate investors, we might be more interested in rent appreciation than prices just four years ago, you know, just then to pay $2,000 to rent a single family home. I mean, that was quite a nice place in the Midwest and South. And today I have modest single family rentals built 50 years ago that are about 1200 square feet, and now they rent for $2,000 $2,000 a month's rent that is common today, and we are rooting for rents to appreciate faster than home prices. And if you want to get our newsletter, you're probably on that list by now, and reading it, I just send some of the best charts in real estate maps to you. You can sign up free right now. Just do it while it's on your mind. Text GRE to 66866, that's text GRE to 66866, for our Don't quit your Daydream Letter. Political season is heating up. We are at a time where we are one month from a general election, and that means we're electing a new president, vice president, 1/3 of the Senate, the entire house of representatives and various state and local officials. Yes, politics matter. Politics affect real estate. So why don't I discuss this more here on the show. Well, I explained that to you a while ago. It gets divisive, and it rarely affects people as much as they think. And as you know, I avoid even using words like Democrat, Republican, left, right, conservative and liberal. And why do I do that? Because they are divisive terms. The problem isn't so much politics. It's when people get infected with the partisan mind virus. Yes, they put party over country. For example, a partisan political instigator will swear to god that the economy is great now, but as soon as, say, a different party wins an election, even if the economy is the same, although now say that that same economy is awful. In fact, a couple years ago, I quit my job as a writer for a publication that you've heard of before. I no longer contribute to them. They put party before country, in my opinion, I wrote an article for them about two years ago, and my article made it sound like an eminent recession was a question, not a foregone conclusion. Well, the editor let me know that their consensus of writers feels like a recession is eminent and that I need to change my article to reflect that that's because they don't like the administration that's in power, so I quit rather than edit my article. I mean, if you just ask an American the question, this question, do you wish that America were less divided? Well. Any sane person would answer that question, yes. Well, then why would you go attach divisive labels to the other side and attack them? It makes no sense. That's where the division comes from. So really, it ought to be about solutions and ideologies and not political parties. So this is another reason why, during political season, I don't play those games, and we stick to investing the economy and wealth mindset. I mean, virtually no other country in the world drags out their presidential election cycle this long. I mean, it's like a year and a half. Remember all those debates last year and names like Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy that were in the news all the time. I mean, other countries get this entire process over with in six weeks. Let's take a page from them, and that way we can have more constructive things in our news cycle.  Well, I am coming to you from the makeshift mobile GRE studio today, like I do some weeks, because this morning, I woke up in reading Pennsylvania. Reading is, in fact, my birthplace, and besides being the pretzel capital of the United States, one way that you know about reading is from the Reading Railroad property in the board game Monopoly. Yeah, it's one of the properties that you can buy and, I guess, collect rent on. And, you know, here we are a real estate show. So maybe it's appropriate that the namesake of my birthplace is immortalized as a property on America's best known real estate game. And it also might be appropriate that I'm back here because the 10th anniversary of the launch of this show is nigh this coming Thursday, on October 10, 1010, it will be 10 years since episode one of this show. And yes, the math, I suppose, checks out, because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and you are listening to episode 522, right now. Well, listen to this. This could blow your mind. Have you heard an AI generated podcast? And I don't just mean sort of where a robot reads a blog in monotone and then you listen to that audio file that's embedded in the article. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Here's what I mean. A few weeks ago, I learned that macroeconomist Richard Duncan, who was the first ever guest on this show back in 2014 Gosh, all these tie ins to GRE 's origins today? Well, Richard published some PDF charts, and he uploaded them to notebooklm.google.com, that's how you find this. And he clicked generate audio overview, and within three minutes, it had created a podcast with two virtual people having this pretty intelligent, engaging and even humorous conversation about his presentation on interest rates. I mean, wow, just listen to the first minute or minute and a half of this AI generated podcast here. And again, this is from about a month ago. So they're talking about the upcoming Fed rate cut that did indeed happen.   13:23 All right, ready to dive in. Today, we're tackling the big question everyone wants to know, will the Fed actually cut rates on September 18? It's the question on everyone's mind, for sure, and more importantly, for our listeners, what's it going to mean for them to help us unpack this whole thing. We're looking at this report. It's by economist Richard Duncan, called why the Fed will cut September 12, 2024. Duncan always brings unique perspective. He cuts right to the chase, which I appreciate. right! So let's jump right in. Duncan starts by talking about inflation, which, let's face it, we've all been feeling the heat from this past year. Yeah, it's been a wild ride. Inflation hit a pretty brutal 9% last year. I think my grocery bills are still recovering. Oh yeah, tell me about it. But the latest number shows down to 2.5% that's both by the CPI and importantly, the PCE Price Index, right? And that PCE is the one the Fed really keeps their eye on, exactly, which is why I wanted to ask you about that. Why is the PCE like the golden child for the Fed, why not just stick with the CPI? Everyone knows that one. well, It's all about getting the most accurate picture of inflation. Think of it like this. The CPI is like taking a quick glance at prices. You know, just a snapshot in time. Okay with you, but the PCE, that's more like a movie. It captures how our spending habits change as prices change, and that gives the fed a better look at those underlying trends driving inflation. So it's like the CPI with a little bit of a crystal ball. It's trying to anticipate what's going to happen. It's got it okay? So inflation seems to be cooling down, which is good news, right?   Keith Weinhold  14:56 Gosh, that's just really good, a totally realistic sounding AI generated podcast just from some PDF files. The macro economist Richard Duncan uploaded remarkable and you know that the quality of that is only going to get better. That's probably about as bad as it's ever going to be right there. And in fact, in another 10 years, listeners could find it rather cute or quaint that we find this remarkable today. A big thanks to Richard Duncan for allowing us to play that and also expect Richard to be back here with us on the show again before the year ends, and here on the 10th anniversary week of the GRE podcast, you know, it makes me wonder how expendable my job as podcast host is going to be. I hope that I'm here with you in another 10 years, and I completely plan to be.  Well  episode number one of the get rich education podcast back from 2014 is called your abundance mindset. So it's apropos to visit a mindset topic today I'm going to do that with firebrand Speaker This week's guest, Garrett Gunderson. Here shortly, do you want to live a life that is small and safe and sheltered? I doubt that you really do, but you know, safe decision after safe decision, that's what most people end up doing. Do you want your kids to live a small, safe, sheltered life? I mean, most parents want safety for their children, but they're going to have an outsized impact on others when they study and then take the right risks. We're discussing those types of wealth creation mindsets with Garrett. He's a really talented guy. He was last with us six years ago. He's done some stand up comedy. Many have remarked that Garrett looks like Jesus Christ. He's the author of some popular books, including killing sacred cows. Let's talk to Garrett. This week's guest is a pretty well known author and speaker. He helps you make, keep and grow your money to help you live your best life. He's an especially dynamic speaker, public speaker, and I'm confident that you'll be able to hear that on the show today, because he has a great knowledge base, and he speaks with this conviction on topics that make him so compelling. Hey, it's been a few years. Welcome back to GRE Garrett Gunderson.   Garrett Gunderson  17:38 good to be back. I thought that was a very honest, like, pretty well known, like, I'm not really well known pretty well. That's just enough to annoy my wife. Like, I'll be going through an airport and someone come over and talk to me, and she's like, ah, but I love it, dude. I love conversations with people that I don't know, and I just get to meet because if they engage in my work, it gives us a chance to connect. And sometimes it makes me look cool to my kids, which is always a good thing. You know what I'm saying, like my son will be with me and someone say, hey, love killing sacred cows, or, Hey, are you that guy on YouTube? I'm like, it could be me, or you might be thinking, I'm Jesus. You know what I'm saying. I look familiar, though.   Keith Weinhold  18:14 Yeah. Now you can tell your kids that I said you are pretty well known. And you know, Garrett, you're also a really keen and perceptive person. You can tell if somebody's poor within 60 seconds of what they say. Tell us about that.   Garrett Gunderson  18:31 Oh, man, that video has so much hate. Man. I put that out like it was my son's filming, and I'm just sitting in our kitchen, and I was just thinking about a conversation I had earlier that day, and in the conversation, it was like, more about complaining about the world, saying that they couldn't afford things, saying they didn't have the time, blaming everyone for their situation. And I was like, man, it's pretty easy to tell. And 60 seconds, I mean, I guess maybe is a rash statement, because maybe it takes three minutes or 300 seconds, like five minutes, and get deep enough, but you just find that there's a certain language to poverty, and whether that's just poor in spirit, whether it's poor in mind, or whether it's poor in the bank account, typically it's devoid of personal responsibility. It's leading the levels of inspiration. And this isn't to say that if you're wealthy, that you only speak inspiring conversations. I mean, I complain sometimes that happens. I get frustrated. I get disappointed in myself for not being nicer to a customer service person and like, have to really manage that sometimes. But ultimately, it's this language that is almost like a Marxist type of language, you know, that comes from a place of like, I want this. I'm owed that we deserve this. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, like, who's going to produce that? And so it's something that's a fairly easy thing to detect with just a few questions. Like, if I'm given one question, I can tell in 60 seconds for sure.   Keith Weinhold  19:57 Yeah. I think a lot of times people start complaining. About something. People find money a scarce resource when they start, you know, complaining about gas prices or something like that, I think that's just really a classic one. It tells me where they're coming from. I mean, it tells me what their mind is occupying.   Garrett Gunderson  20:12 Right.  And if we're not excited about our future, if we're not developing our skill sets, if we're not really engaged in the world of value creation, it's easy to get frustrated about tax it's easier to get frustrated about inflation. It's easier to get complaining about interest rates or loan rates and all those kind of things. But what I find is the best way to outpace inflation is through skill set, and if we truly invest in ourselves and invest in other people so that we increase our quality of life and our enjoyment of it along the way, we increase all the skill sets that matter. You've mentioned that I'm a decent public speaker and that I'm articulate. That comes from going through writing courses and hiring speaking coaches and just getting the reps and doing comedy and the things that will help me to become a more effective communicator. And then it's really about becoming a better cash flow investor. I know that you teach people a lot around, you know, real estate and investing, and that's one of the big three assets in my mind, that helps people generate and create cash flow. But most people are trapped in this indoctrination where they set money aside and forget it. They wait for 30 years and hope for the best. They're very one dimensional of just paying off a loan and then hoping the retirement plan is going to get them there. And that's why they end up in this mindset where they're like, oh, I don't feel in control, because the outcome of my income is something that's dictated by the economy and not my own willpower, not my own skill set, not my own value creation. And I think that's why retirement is such a bad and faulty notion. My main statement in life is create the life you don't want to retire from. Now, I get it. In the industrial age, people need to retire because they were being worked to death and they weren't living for very long. It was an immensely valuable concept back then, a blue to collar world back then? Yeah, right. But in today's world, what if people just invested more time in selecting your career that mattered or had enough faith and took a leap on themselves to start becoming a better investor or start a business or be an entrepreneur where they get upside potential, instead of just begging for safety and security, instead of just wanting the entitlement of benefits, instead of just trading time for money, like that's an industrial age concept that we watched, whether it's our parents or grandparents, go through trading time for money, but we're in a world where that's not required any longer, because we do have technology, we do have artificial intelligence, we do have these things that are starting to displace The jobs that no one really wants to do because it beats down the body, and there's a lot of opportunity for those that are willing to grasp it and go for it, but it comes down to one key thing, value creation. And if we're going to be devoid of value creation, it's easy to tell in 60 seconds whether someone's poor because value creation was not part of their concept or their purview.   Keith Weinhold  22:40 And value creation is about expanding that upside. And a lot of poverty mindsets just complain about the downside their expenses. And you can't really do that much about your expenses. You can only lower them so much. Anytime you do, you're probably diminishing your quality of life anyway. And really, I think a lot of this mindset of lack Garrett comes back to the fact that, simply, most believe that money itself is a scarce resource. I probably believe that at one time, when I was younger, maybe you did too. And as I like to say, although I wasn't the first person that said it, the only place that you get money is from other people. So most people, which tend to be employees, think their way to increase their income is only if their employer gives them a raise, or maybe if they find a new employer that pays them maybe 10% more, or something like that. So they're limiting their upside over there because they think money's a scarce resource, because it's got to come from an employer. Somehow they're not thinking about, why don't you really expand your upside and start an Amazon business, or rent cars through Turo or Airbnb rentals, or what we do here at get risk education, help people with long term housing rentals. So it just kind of comes back to the fact that, you know, people's mind is closed off, and they just simply want to believe that money is a scarce resource.   Garrett Gunderson  23:57 They're adding to computer screens as we talk about this, you know, I mean, there's never been more money in the world than there is today. It's the most money there's ever been. We keep adding it. There's, you know, so much of it out there. But even if they stopped printing it, or they stopped adding it to balance sheets, there's an infinite number of times they can exchange hands. So if we use it to buy computers and clothes or food and shelter or entertainment like comedy and concerts, the more times money exchanges hands, the more values created. It's exchange that facilitates and creates wealth in the way that we create exchanges, serving others, solving problems and adding value. And here's the deal, we can have two parties do exchange with one another and both end up wealthier. It doesn't need to be a win, lose transaction. As a matter of fact, when people transact, they agree that what they bought was worth more than their money, or if they sold it, they agree that the money was more than what they sold. Otherwise they would have kept it. We don't do equal exchange. I wouldn't give you $1 for $1 right? There's no reason to exchange. It's unequal, which means, if you can provide something more efficiently than. I can for myself. I can pay you, which frees up my time to do what I most efficiently and effectively can do. I did triathlons because I was an idiot back in the day. Sorry for those triathletes, which is like a lot of work, man. And I don't love swimming, but I remember going to buy a triathlon bike. I just bought, like, a road bike. It was a big upgrade from having a huffy from Walmart, you know, like, oh, this $4,700 this is a while back, but it was carbon fiber. It was, like, amazing. And I thought, you know, I could never build this. So this $4,700 is actually really cheap, because I'm giving him $4,700 to build something that I can then go build something like write a book or do some consulting or do a speech that can inspire someone. And so that exchange was valuable. It's like if you bought killing cigarette cows. For me, you're saying that it was worth more than $20 I'm saying it was worth less because I already have the knowledge in my head, and so we both can end up wealthier. Unequal exchange is what facilitates wealth. What it lets us do is tap into our best abilities and tap into other people's best abilities. And that exchange ends up growing over time, and the more times money circulates because of Good Services and experiences, the more output there is. So look at today. Hundreds of years ago, if you wanted to listen to music, you had to hire a quartet. Now it's free for almost anyone, if you have any device of any sort, if you're willing to listen to a commercial here or there, you can listen to anything that you want. For the most part, you don't even have to pay for it. So think about that advancement. If you want to be anywhere in the world, you could be there in almost 24 hours or less, back in the day, that would have taken, you know, years for that matter. I mean, we have so much more wealth because we keep building upon previous wealth, previous ideas, and those blueprints we continue to grow from with new innovation and ingenuity. Therefore, the quality of life for someone that's middle class today is infinitely more than the middle class of hundreds of years ago, the amount of people that are hungry today versus years ago, even though we have more than 8 billion people on the planet, has gone down as a percentage, not up as a percentage. That's because of velocity and exchange. It's because of this notion that money's not scarce and resources have the way to be replenished, as long as we're stewards. Now, if the bison, if we kill too many of them, then they can't replenish, right? But if we manage that properly, you could actually eat the bison, use the skins, do all that kind of stuff, and still have that exist in the future. These people that don't believe in that believe that there's like a finite pie, that if one thing's gone, it's gone forever, not understanding value exchange, reproduction, apparently, and basic science either. And again, we can overdo those things and damage an ecosystem. So there is a balance.   Keith Weinhold  27:36 Yeah, that's right, when you talk about value creation, then you're really not talking about a person going out and trying to get their piece of the pie. Really more accurately what you're talking about. Here are ideas for expanding the entire pie.   Garrett Gunderson  27:51 Spam the pie. Expand your means you can budget and reduce. You said it eloquently. You said, Hey, there's only so much you can do in reduction of expenses before it just starts infringing and taking away from things that you value in life. There's a finite game there, but the expansion gain through co creation, through collaboration, instead of through competition, is absolutely an infinite pie that continues to grow as we add more value, as we serve more people, as we solve bigger problems, as we more deeply impact the people that we impact as we reach more people, these are things that can lead to more dollars. So I have this thing called the value equation. It's our mental capital, ideas, knowledge, wisdom, insights, strategies and tools multiplied by our relationship capital, people, networks, organizations, communities, friends, family, mentors, equals our financial capital. So financial capital is a byproduct of our stewardship of our mental and relationship capital. And the bridge between mental relationship capital is what we call business, or we call investing. So ultimately, Money Follows value. How do we add more value? Have a better idea. Impact more people. More more deeply. Impact the people you currently serve. Collaborate and offer more like it's an infinite pie and an infinite game. If we play it that way.  We're talking with speaker and author Garrett Gunderson, about the mindset of wealth creation. More. We come back with Garrett. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  29:01 hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they've provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at ridgelendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com. Your bank is getting rich off of you. The national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings if your money isn't making 4% Percent, you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work. With minimum risk, your cash generates up to an 8% return with compound interest, year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% sitting in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And I would know, because I'm an investor too. Earn 8% hundreds of others are text family 266, 866, learn more about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund, on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text, family 266, 866,   Hal Elrod  30:54 this is Hal Elrod author of The Miracle Morning and listen to get it rich. Education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.     Keith Weinhold  31:10 welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with firebrand speaker and author Garrett Gunderson. You can learn more about him at Garrettgunderson.com. Garrett before the break, we were talking about the mindset in opening up one in order to create more wealth over time. Here, a lot of times, one way we talk about that is, don't just get your money to work for you. Get other people's money to work for you. You could actually use other people's money ethically three ways at the same time, in real estate, using the tenant's money for the income stream the government's money for generous tax incentives, and then the bank's money for the leverage, which is actually a greater wealth building force than compound interest. That's one example of how we do that here. But when one has become successful, oftentimes they want to make sure that that's lasting. They want to build a legacy, something that they can carry on. And I know you articulate that through the Rockefeller method. So do you want to tell us more about that?   Garrett Gunderson  32:05 I wrote this book. What would the Rockefellers do back in 2016 this study between really wealthy families versus their wealth lasted, versus wealthy families that decimated it, and the best study was really the Vanderbilt because they had more money than the US Treasury. One the railroad family, yeah, transportation. And you know what? They destroyed that Cornelius died, and then his eldest son doubled the estate nine years and then he died, and that was the last time their estate grew. It started to decrease after that. And 54 years later, the first Vanderbilt died broke, and so the last Vanderbilt family union didn't have any millionaires at it. I know everybody knows about like Vanderbilt University. They donated like, a million dollars to get that started. But, you know, that was pretty inconsequential compared to their overall net worth. But they didn't have a formula or format to create sustainable wealth. They own 10 mansions in in Manhattan. They don't own those anymore. They own the breakers in Rhode Island. The state of Rhode Island owns that now. So they lost this massive amount of wealth where the Rockefellers are just entering their seventh generation of passing on, well, seven generations, wow. And people that worked for the rock bellers, like the executives, they're still passing on, well, for this generation after generation. And most people don't make it past the third generation. And we could look at, you know, people like Walt Disney. We could look at people like JCPenney. We could look at people, you know, like the the Kennedy family and so many others that have used these two things to really create sustainable wealth. Number one is they use trust. The Rockefellers coined the term own nothing and control everything, whether that's a revocable living trust for people who are just starting out and don't have a substantial amount of wealth, or a domestic asset protection trust for those that have a decent amount of wealth, those are the two main popular ones. There are some offshore trusts. It gets onerous and complicated once you go offshore, but it does protect your assets. The second piece is using whole life insurance, so they have this death benefit that's on the insured, and they put that on their heirs, so that every time an heir dies, it replenishes the trust, and potentially even grows it, because there's these threats to the family wealth, there's taxes, there's inflation, there's interest rate fluctuations or market, you know, economic turmoil. So what they're doing is they're creating that level of stability, and they give them preferred interest rates to borrow from the trust versus a bank. So now your family can actually earn interest instead of paying interest. And yes, if your family is paying interest, they're paying it back to their future generation at Preferred rates. And so you could be one generation away from never needing a bank again and actually being able to capitalize on deals a whole lot faster. Specifically, we use whole life, because it transfers the risk to the insurance company. There's six or seven companies that are participating, mutual companies that have been around for over 150 years, always paid dividends. It protects your cash value from taxes. It protects it from liability and bankruptcy in over 40 states, fully and partially in every state. So what happens is, for an asset allocation decision. You can start moving some of your fixed income portfolio to this and have a better, more robust benefits type of situation, and then actually start to implement this Rockefeller method so that you can create generational wealth.   Keith Weinhold  35:12 All right, so the Rockefeller method using trusts and whole life insurance to preserve and grow your wealth, so as one's building their portfolio, amassing wealth, increasing income streams as they go along in their investor journey. Is there anything that they should keep in mind as they try to integrate some of these things from the Rockefellers?   Garrett Gunderson  35:12 Yeah, a lot of other insurance people try to sell these index universal life policies, but those won't work because they have too many levers of risk, and especially when you're building cash value, you might use that cash value to buy real estate. Then you might use the rental income to put the money back into the policy so you can buy more real estate in the future. So it becomes like a medium storage shed or unit for your cash that's protected, but now it comes with the death benefit, which, here's one example, for a real estate investor, instead of just, you know, rolling it over to the next property and rolling it over to the next property when you eventually sell, you can use a charitable trust. And a charitable trust, you can donate that highly appreciated piece of real estate, get a partial tax deduction, sell it and fund the trust and pay zero tax on your gains. No matter what your basis is, there's no tax on the gains. You're the first beneficiary of the trust, meaning you can take an income between 5% and 50% from the trust while you're alive, depending on the underlying assets, and then when you die, the charity keeps whatever's left over. But if you have a life insurance policy that will replenish what that donation was, therefore giving you 20 30% or more increased cash flow with an asset by making a synergistic allocation. Now, that's a lot of information in a short period of time, but it's more about planting seeds. And don't worry, I'll give everybody a copy of the book at no charge, so they can kind of read it at their own pace, or you can listen to it at their own pace, versus me condensing it into just a couple minutes.   Keith Weinhold  36:56 Oh, thanks. All right, well, we'll learn more about that resource at the end that sounds like that can be really helpful to a lot of people. And I guess Garrett, even though you're not as real estate ish as me, as we wind down here, you know, I think the place that you and I find the most common ground is we often say and help people with the things that sort of fly in the face of conventional guidance. I mean, you really just don't have to think about it that much more than if you just do normal stuff, average, mediocre stuff, you're only going to have a normal, average, mediocre outcome. So can you tell us about any last things that can help get people thinking differently and debunk some of this conventional guidance that really will never help get you much above lower middle class?   Garrett Gunderson  37:40 Yeah, if you're putting your money in mutual funds and ETFs, you're making a bunch of other people money. I mean, the big three is you want to focus on generating cash flow so you can create financial independence. Because if you have enough cash flow from assets to cover your expenses, every active dollar can build more assets. That's an exponential benefit to you. So now that you don't have to be forced to work, you've got a lot more freedom. And the big three for me are real estate businesses or intellectual property, which is kind of, you know, something that is part of business to a degree, but I consider a different asset class. Those are the big three. I have no money in the stock market. I have money in my businesses. I invest in myself. I invest in my vision. I invest in a team, instead of investing in things that I have no control over and I don't get cash flow from and that the economy can change, or that Wall Street's making money on whether I make money or not. So that's just one notion that I think we could probably, you know, agree, flies in the face of what everybody's teaching. That's the masses. But when you look at the wealthiest people, it's how they're implementing and what they're doing.   Keith Weinhold  38:39 And I think another place that conventional guidance really tells people to prioritize is paying down debt or paying off debt. I mean, making your debt free scream at age 34 you know, maybe that's not so bad, but maybe not. I mean, did paying down low to moderate interest rate debt and making that priority sacrifice your lifestyle and your family's lifestyle the entire time while you were doing it, and did it have a steeper opportunity cost, because you were not investing those dollars in things that can earn a greater return than their interest rates were they're using some of the vehicles that you talked about. So, you know, I guess what I'm getting at Garrett philosophically, one way I said it, is that the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification?   Garrett Gunderson  39:23 Yeah, I mean, if we become sacrifice, how do we ever overcome that habit? I'm I'm scrimping, I'm sacrificing, yeah, I'm deferring. And then one day, what you're supposed to flip the switch be like, Okay, now I'm abundant. I'm gonna enjoy this money that doesn't happen. So that habitual notion of reduce, cut, eliminate, no one shrinks their way to wealth. It's a game of expansion and production. Yes, be efficient, be intelligent, be a steward, but don't become a miser, because misers, no matter how much money they have, never get to feel what it's like to live their richest life. It's always about elimination. Instead of enjoyment and utilization.   Keith Weinhold  40:02 Oh, that is just beautifully stated. I really can't say it any better than that, and that really brings it back full circle as to the best personal finance is probably growing your means rather than practicing living below your means for decades, and then you'll never get that time back. Well, Garrett, you've generated so many good educational resources. Why you've been the successful author and speaker. Tell us more about that.   Garrett Gunderson  40:26 Garrettgunderson.com is where a lot of those resources are. I write a blog like it's 2006 because I love to write and just get information out there. I've created a money persona quiz. So if you go forward slash tools on Garrettgunderson.com you can figure out what's the success or sabotage that happens subconsciously with how you deal with money. It's very informative and useful. I've written 10 books. I offered that if people DM me on Instagram, Garrett B, Gunderson, two R's, two T's, middle initial B and just say, Keith, get rich. Keith get rich. So I know it was on this program, I'll hook you up with the audio and a PDF of the book on me, so that you can hopefully just understand this Rockefeller method and improve your life and start building a legacy right now. Because if you're already doing real estate, that's great, let's make sure to preserve, protect and even perpetuate that wealth with some of the structures that could be integrated.   Keith Weinhold  41:17 Well Garrett, yeah, you have a lot of great resources and just a really wide spectrum of understanding of concepts all across a personal finance field. Is there any last thing you'd like to let our audience know about?   Garrett Gunderson  41:28 Just create the life you don't want to retire from. Design a life that you love. Create enough cash flow from assets to have that economic independence so you have choice and freedom daily of what you do and swing for the fences in that purpose, you know, that's probably the best advice that I could give.   Keith Weinhold  41:43 Why would you want to live your life any other way? Garrett Gunderson, it's been valuable as expected. Thanks so much for coming on to the show.   Garrett Gunderson  41:51 Thanks for having me.   Keith Weinhold  41:58 Yeah, a lot on both mindset and long term wealth preservation with Garrett Gunderson today, now, 15 weeks ago, on episode 507 you'll remember that episode called compound interest is weak, where I made a takedown about how compound Interest actually is not serving people. Leverage does serve people. Garrett also makes a takedown and critiques this myth about how people think compound interest builds wealth. A little review. There some comprehension from 15 weeks ago, compound interest has most people counting on the average annual return when they should be focused on the compound annual growth rate. A little review. Remember the average annual return means if you're up 10% one year and then down 10% next year that you broke even. That's the arithmetic thing. But that is a lie. The reality is in this CAGR, the compound annual growth rate, it reflects, if you're up 10% one year and then down 10% the next year, you're at minus 1% the geometric thing. And that's the reality, and that makes a retirement lifestyles worth of difference, and a retirement ages worth of difference like I thoroughly broke down for you in episode 507 coming up on the show here in future weeks, a familiar name like Tom wheelwright returns, and then new guests, like a former NFL player here on the show, if you want to reach out to Garrett Gunderson on Instagram for his best free resources, even the audio and pdf of his Rockefeller method of generational wealth preservation, again on Instagram, you can DM him at Garrett B Gunderson, he let me know later, all you have to do is send him my first name, Keith, and he will hook you up there. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I am supremely grateful and even in awe of your devoted listenership for an entire decade of your life and mine, here's to another 10 years. Don't quit your Daydream.   44:21 Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively,   Keith Weinhold  44:49 The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth. Building, get rich, education.com, you.

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In a small town near Victorville, California, experience a true horror story filled with eerie encounters and paranormal activity. We will explore Melissa's chilling events with her grandmother in Juarez, Mexico, to unsettling experiences in her own home. In this series of stories, she'll tell us about her experiences where the line between the living and the supernatural blurs, although for her, it's just the way things have always been.You can get these ad-free through ScaryPlus.com free for 14 days, then 4.99 per month. Cancel anytime. You can find Edwin social media as @edwincov Get in touch to share your story through TrueScaryStory.com Join our community:Facebook.com/truescarystorypodcastInstagram.com/truescarypodtiktok.com/@truescarypod

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Dr. Alessandra Wal spent her first seven years of life living in the Middle East. She then spent ten years in France. All of these experiences gave her a rich view of different peoples and cultures which still serve her well today.   At the age of 18, she came to the United States where she attended undergraduate school at Duke University. She will tell us how “different” life was for her in a major college sports town, at least different from the kind of environments she had experienced up to that time. She attended graduate school at the University of Texas Medical center in Dallas where she eventually earned her PHD in Psychology. From an early age she loved to read, learn about people and wanted to understand them. For her, Psychology was the natural route to take.   Fairly recently Dr. Wal decided to shift from being a practicing psychologist to being a leadership coach for women. She has fascinating stories of the kinds of efforts her coaching practice has undertaken. She specializes in helping smart, ambitious executive women in male-dominated industries build wildly successful AND deeply fulfilling careers. When asked, she is quick to point out that men are very much a part of the equation. I leave it to Alessandra to explain and teach.   Dr. Wal and I had a wonderful and natural conversation. I came away blessed for the opportunity to speak with her and to better understand how all of us need to work harder and better at communicating and supporting each other.   About the Guest:   Dr. Alessandra Wall made a major career switch from a busy psychologist to successful founder & high-impact executive coach at Noteworthy. She specializes in helping smart, ambitious executive women in male-dominated industries build wildly successful AND deeply fulfilling careers.  Dr. Wall is on a mission to build a world where seeing women access the highest levels of leadership and success is so common, it's no longer noteworthy. She's confident that she can move the needle for women both through her 1:1 work with women and through her training, consulting, and partnership with companies that understand and value the impact of women leaders. You can find out more and access free resources at noteworthyinc.co.   When she's not busy helping executive women balance ambition, corporate dynamics, and personal well-being you will find her curled up in an armchair with a good book and an a piping hot cup of coffee.   Ways to connect with Dr.Alessandra: Website:Noteworthyinc.co LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dralessandrawall/   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset we get to meet every so often and chat and we get to have a number of people come on the podcast to have interesting stories to tell. And it is no different today we get to talk with Dr. Alessandra Wall. And she is a psychologist. Am I saying that right? Yes. Yeah. Are you psychologists to the founder and CEO of noteworthy and we'll get to that. But Alessandra and do you go by Alessandra or anything else?   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 01:59 Now? Full name. I forgot, Alessandra. Oh, no, it is. Yep.   Michael Hingson ** 02:02 Perfect. So welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:07 I am very glad to be here. Thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:10 Well, thank you for taking the time to be here. Well, let's start talking about maybe a little bit of the earlier Alessandra growing up and all that sort of stuff. That's always fun to do that.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:22 Who doesn't love waxing poetic about their childhood? There   Michael Hingson ** 02:26 you go. So wax poetic as long and as much as you wish.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:29 Let's see. Most important things about my job most interesting things   Michael Hingson ** 02:34 are unimportant either way. So   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 02:37 things you can't hear when I speak anymore. Although somebody the other day at the airport said I had an accent and I'm like an accent. I have an accent. I don't hear it. But if you say so, I grew up. I grew up in I was born in Iran, moved to Kuwait, moved to Saudi Arabia, moved from there to France, which is where my mom was born and raised, and lived there until I was 18. And I didn't move to the States until I was 18. My father is from Kansas. A lot less traveling for him. But apparently I still have an accent. But the person in the airport was adamant it was not a European accent. He said maybe Midwestern. And I'm like, there's really just no chance of that, based, at least geographically on where I've lived in the world.   Michael Hingson ** 03:27 Interesting. Well, how long were you in Iran and Kuwait and the first   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 03:33 seven years of my life, my parents spend a total of 10 years in the Middle East, okay. I got to I got to spend the first seven years of my life and then move to France in what was at the time right outside of Paris, which is in one of the coldest winters they've ever had. That was a that was quite a shock making the move, but not not not too uncommon. We'd spent a few Christmases in Goodland, Kansas, and it snows a good deal there.   Michael Hingson ** 04:02 Yeah. So what what are what were your parents doing in the Middle East? What was work or whatever I assume? Go?   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 04:10 For my dad. Yes, my mom didn't work put into in some of the places we live. But she my father was an engineer. Also all the things that engineer, engineer and electronics. So all the things that engineers and electronics do, or did at the time, this is the late 70s, early 80s in the Middle East and then just made interesting choices. He's a man who was very bold with his choices from life, given that he was born in 1928 in the Dust Bowl, and those weren't necessarily typical choices for his background.   Michael Hingson ** 04:49 I had friends they've, he's passed away now. And my wife actually knew them first and introduced me but he worked for us. And they spent several years in the late 70s In Iran, and actually were there when the Shah was overthrown. And it was a major challenge to get her and their cats out. And then he got out as well. But they, they made it happen. But it was a definite tense time all the way around. It was   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 05:27 my father worked for us too, but not by the time he moved to Iran. And we left right before the Scheifele. Yeah, both my parents learned Farsi. I had siblings who spoke, my brother spoke four languages. By the time he was five from traveling, French and English, Italian because they were living in Rome before and my mom is a first generation French of Italian descent. And then Farsi, they all spoke Farsi.   Michael Hingson ** 05:56 So what do you remember about living in the Middle East? And what was it like as a child kind of growing up there?   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 06:02 I have very fond memories. And I mean, for a variety of reasons. I remember I remember the kindness of people, and how welcoming most people were. I remember, I mean, depending on what years there were times where we lived in compounds, which with all expats and all foreigners, right. And those those experiences were fun, but very different, very Western. But I also remember sitting outside a house in Kuwait, with the neighbors right around Ramadan and watching them, you know, butcher chickens to cook I. I tell people in the states we don't think about late, but I when I hear the call to prayer, the Muslim call to prayer, I have very fond memories in the same way that when I hear church bells, and that was that was my recollection for moving in France, right is hearing church bells and doves on a regular basis. Like they, they're fond memories, like some people might, you know, have a smell that brings them back to childhood. And I had a brother who would wear navy blue corduroy pants in the desert, which is also very interesting to me. So it speaks you know, we talk about being adaptable. And it speaks to human adaptability.   Michael Hingson ** 07:23 Yeah, it must have been wearing corduroy pants and so on, it must have been pretty hot over there. It   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 07:31 was pretty hot. I'm not strange one Strangely, I didn't I didn't start talking in Fahrenheit until I moved to the States. And then there's never got that bad, but my understanding is, so at least 40 degrees Celsius Celsius, if not more and humid, apparently very humid, certain times of years. But again, like for my brother, he was in the middle east from the time he was two or three until 13. He spent the full 10 years of his life there. So really, it's bouncing around from country to country bouncing around from culture to culture, will having to learn having to integrate having to getting not having to in this case, like getting this opportunity to develop richness in your practices from living in so many places and meeting so many different people. That for me, those are part of the reasons why all of that is so fond, and yeah, moved later on both to like my first friends in France where they were mixes right there were like my best friend was his mom was British and his dad was French. And then my other best friend her. She her parents were on the dad's side he was a first generation French of Italian. Parents mom was all French but same thing in college when I moved my first friends were all people who had multicultural backgrounds because there was an ease of fitting in.   Michael Hingson ** 09:01 It certainly must seem a lot different. Now over there, as opposed to what it was when you were living there.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 09:10 I am told it is very different. I know that for the Middle East, my for Iran, specifically my mother, my mother loved it. She loved she loved the language. She loved the culture. had wanted to go back but every time we spoken to people who who stayed or who let who had to leave and who came back. They talked about how jarring the differences. As for the Middle East. I am still looking for opportunities. I'm crossing my fingers for opportunities actually to go speak in the Middle East. So if anybody's listening and he's a speaker, I'm just gonna throw that out there. They keep on telling my mom the second I get an opportunity. I'll invite her to come with me. I   Michael Hingson ** 09:54 spend time this past August August 2023 I add excessively in Tel Aviv, this first time I'd been to Israel. And we also then went to Jerusalem. So we went through the West Bank and into Jerusalem. I very much enjoyed it. It is so sad as to what's occurring there now. And it's the usual thing that so often politicians and others just don't tend to listen to others. And it certainly makes it a lot more difficult to try to create some sort of meaningful and peaceful relationships, doesn't it? Definitely.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 10:32 Right. I mean, that's the challenge of leadership, ultimately, actually, can you? Can you rise to a position where you have the privilege, and therefore the responsibility of leading well, and still stay in touch with the people you're supposed to be? Leading, I was thinking about the word the other day, actually, just this weekend talking to my husband about a civil servant, which is, which is ultimately, what politicians are supposed to be their civil servants. Hello, hello,   11:06 people.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 11:10 And whether it's politics, or the corporate world, they just think that it's very easy to forget that. To quote Uncle Ben, in Spider Man, you know, with great power comes great responsibility.   Michael Hingson ** 11:26 It is very true. And the and the problem is it's so easy to and we seem to easily forget all of that. And we forget that leaders really are supposed to be servants. They're supposed to guide and they're supposed to help people vision and make the vision happen but not dictate. And that's just not what goes on isn't? Nope,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 11:50 not anymore. Well, realistically, I say not anymore. I think not mostly many points in history where that wasn't the case, either. We had a brief period where things look that way. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 12:05 So when you came to the US, at 18, that must have been a major culture shock compared to what you had experienced in Europe in the Middle East. It   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 12:18 was I wasn't expecting it. My father, as I said, was actually born in Nebraska, I grew up in Kansas, we would come back to the States to visit my cousins and aunts and uncles who had, for the most part, migrated to California and Los Angeles and like the golden age of Los Angeles. So my assumption was that I would walk in and I would fit in because in France, I was, you know, here's my friend, she's American. Right? That's that's how I was introduced very often. But coming to the states, it was there was a massive culture shock and one that I don't think a lot of people realize, because if people look at me, I, I look the part of you know, white, I'm white, I speak with no accent I do sometimes, especially when I get tired to say weird things because my brain literally translates from one language to another. So I when he would come here, and I would say to offer a gift, because in French you offer gifts, give a gift. And I use some British expressions, such as to q where a booth or to talk about the trunk of a car. They, I as my mom would point out to me, I articulated far more before I moved to the States and was easier to understand, apparently, but the big thing was just habits I remember, you know, there going I went to Duke University for undergraduate and I remember being handed a a leaflet about things that that were okay to discuss in America and things that weren't okay to discuss, or the notion of small talk and how important it is to the social interactions in the US. I remember being asked my very, very first night feeling very homesick and alone. If it's true that French people were really rude and they didn't shave and they smell bad. And my response to the young woman who asked me that question was, well, far less rude than you're being right now. The women wax and yeah, sometimes a second shower would work well. So getting in the habit of kind of figuring out simple things that make sense to people in America like in dorm room experiences. One thing that makes sense in America is you leave your dorm room open. And so as people walk down the hallway, they might walk in pop their head I didn't understand those things. I close my it was my bedroom door I closed bid, which also meant that I was harder to make friends, because they didn't understand the social patterns. Interestingly enough, nowadays and the work I do I spend a lot of time teaching people how to build relationships, make connections relate to other people in the in the American culture, and sometimes I get to work with with people who are working for large American corporations or have moved to branches of their corporations in the US and are really struggling with that disconnect between the way things are done in their cultures or their enter their country and the way things are done here.   Michael Hingson ** 15:39 Well, when you went to Duke, did you learn to play basketball? Because that's a rule in North Carolina, of course,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 15:45 well, here's the thing, I had no idea what Duke basketball was about. None. I didn't get why it was a big deal. I also remember walking around and telling my Mother, why are these people walking around wearing shirts and baseball caps that say, Duke we know you're here, like, it's good. You're okay. Like, all those things that seem so again, commonplace things we do not think about because they're part of our lived experience. To me, were so awkward. So now I did not learn how to play basketball. I too, went to the UNC campus. I think on my second weekend, totally made friends with a bunch of Tar Heels. They broke all the rules. There was a massive failure in some ways.   Michael Hingson ** 16:30 There is relevance in communicating, though I've went to speak in North Carolina. And I will also say if anybody needs a speaker, I'd love to talk with you about speaking. Having been in the World Trade Center, and all the things that I've done, it's it's fun. And I'd love to travel abroad again, as well. But I went to Carolina to North Carolina to do a speech several years ago. And Duke, UNC and NC State were all poised to make it into March Madness, except that NC State and UNC had a game of the Thursday night I arrived. And I expected just to be able to watch some television and turn on the TV only to hear the announcer say shows are not going to be on tonight because of the game went okay. And I was in Kentucky when the Wildcats were actually not only in March Madness, but it was the final game. And they were one of the two teams in the final game. And I was doing a speech somewhere and was told, we have to end this entire event at 630. If you go beyond by one minute you will speaking to an empty gym. And we ended it on time. And sure enough, by 631, there were only about two or three people in the gym. And one of them was me and the other person was the person who was going to take me back to my hotel. Amazing. It is   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 18:00 really really you know, if we bring it back to like this larger concept that for people who don't, maybe listening who don't get it or understand it, it really comes down to when you walk into a space, do you understand what the people around you are about? What's important to them? Like what defines that our culture? And can you adapt to it? And I could absolutely and totally see what you're talking about happening. Like there's going to be nobody here.   Michael Hingson ** 18:30 And there wasn't, it was, I have never seen a gym clear out like that. And it wasn't even an emergency. But they were they were all gone. But it is interesting that as you point out and around this country, there are a lot of different cultures living in and I've been in Massachusetts and live there for three years, and I've lived in other places as well in New Jersey. And the cultures are so different in a lot of ways than here in California. And at the same time, unless you experience a number of those different cultures, you don't tend to get a flavor for or get some sort of depth of knowledge to be able to understand how to adapt. I, for example, met a person in New Jersey, who lived within 20 miles of New York City. This was a grown woman in her 50s and had never been to New York City. She had never really been out of Springfield, New Jersey and then the surrounding areas but it never been to New York City just wasn't even a priority to travel 20 miles   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 19:39 that that I cannot that does not compute for me. I mean, I know people like that I've very good friends in San Diego who have been born and raised here and we talked about the love for travel that like if they travel they traveled to go see friends in Oregon. And that's about it and there's no curiosity and Don't judge them for that it just does not compute. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 20:02 it's not, it's not a judgment issue at all. Whereas my wife, who was married to me for 40 years, she passed away last year, which is sad. But I've got 40 years of marriage, and I know she's monitoring. So if I'm ever not a good kid, I'm going to hear about it. So it works out. But the thing is that she had no fear of driving, when we were in New Jersey, into New York, and she drove all around California, when, when we needed to go and do different things, and all that and, and loved to see different places. And so I always grew up with that kind of attitude. And so it helped me when I went to different places, and went to places like West Virginia and an experience the foods that they have there, which are significantly different than in California. And just all the different things. It's I think, important that we find ways to broaden our horizons and at least learn to respect those and those environments that are different than ours. I   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 21:07 agree that I mean, on so many levels, right, to go back to some of the things we're talking about. I was reading articles this week about the risk of loss of the ability for people to have civil discourse, and a reading call about that very specifically in the workplace, that it's this huge potential risk for workplace initiatives for innovation for companies to be able to work together also for companies to be able to access like a broad spectrum of talent, because if people now only start working in companies where there's a one to one alignment on culture and values, and then then we lose, we lose that diversity of that creation. So the it's a, it's a big kind of space that people need to start thinking about in 2021. But part of what it takes to be able to move the way I did as a child or even in the state, so I moved to North Carolina, very different from Paris, France, in so many ways, but took the time to travel up and down the coast many times then left North Carolina moved to Texas to Dallas for graduate school. And as I was reminded day three in Texas when I asked for a sweet tea, I was like they told me Honey, this is not the South is the southwest. I'm like, okay, very different set of cultural norms, very different set of habits. For people who aren't, who haven't lived in both of those places. They might just put lump everything together in Boston. I've spent enough time in New York City I've been now in Southern California moving to Southern California. I don't know how things are in Victorville. But in San Diego, there's this thing that I later learned was called the SoCal flake. Buddy moving to Southern California. So let's take LA County all the way south, if you have plans with somebody, and they cancel on you about 10 minutes before your due to me because they're tired, and they just decide they'd stay home. It's not you. It's them. Yeah, but that is a typical, that is a typical culturally acceptable thing to do here. And I would, first of all, when I moved, I found it very difficult. But when I was still practicing, as a psychologist, and I would talk to people who moved here and felt very isolated very alone, I often brought that up and the sense of relief, they just didn't understand why it was so difficult to meet people why people were so inconsistent or flaky, thus the name so Catholic, and to just explain like that is just that you, your plans need to always be very agile and ready to switch. You know, this is these are just habits. So that ability to adapt, and the ability to have distress tolerance. Right, which is really what we're supposed to learn when we're toddlers distress tolerance. Yeah. becomes essential.   Michael Hingson ** 23:59 My inlaws spent most well a significant amount of their lives in California. My father in law was born in Canada, but moved here fairly young, my mother in law grew up in Arizona, but they really spent most of their time from maybe late 20s on in California. So they also went the other way. They would decide on a Saturday or a Sunday or whatever, let's have a party and they had a whole bunch of people who were friends, what they call the instant party group, and all they had to do is call and everybody show up. Love it. No plans just showed up. And people would bring things or not, and it didn't matter. But yeah, but the whole, the whole environment is definitely different than the structured environment of, say the east coast, where things are expected to be a certain way and That's just the way it is. And it's okay. But we need to learn to tolerate it and understand it. And as you pointed out this whole concept of social discourse and in the workplace and elsewhere, we're losing the art of conversing. Because there are so many people who don't necessarily think the way we do. And unfortunately, there are some people who have led so many people down that path of saying, Well, if you don't think the way I do, then you can't be good.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 25:33 It's, you know, my opinion is that there's a tendency to take a lot of it very personally, that if somebody doesn't agree with you on something, that it's that it's personal, it's about you, and it isn't. And a lot of the work, a lot of I do a lot of work around, mastering difficult conversations, I work with people in high stakes situations, right. So they're, they're often big personalities. And because I work with women, sometimes they know how to stand and tall and big in front of those personalities. And other times, it feels very unfamiliar to counterculture. And a lot of it is learning how to calm yourself down how to recognize what you are thinking, recognize what you what's triggering you. And making sense of whether the things that are triggering you pertain to the situation that's in front of you, or it's like your own history, it's your own baggage. That's where there's a massive crossover between what I used to do as a clinical psychologist, and then the work I do now,   Michael Hingson ** 26:41 one of the one of the things that people just don't do nearly enough, though, is to end in an in a nice way, in a curious way, ask questions, we are afraid. And I think we're taught that, you know, I see it all the time is I am somewhere and a child will want to know about my dog and they'll say to their parents, I want to go pet the dog or they'll compensate something to me in the parents will go don't talk to that man, he may not want to talk to you don't talk to that dog, it might bite. And I will stop no matter what I'm doing when some of that happens. especially dealing with the dog. And I'll take the dogs harness off and say absolutely, the dog won't bite come on over and visit. And the reality is the dog loves it even more than the child no matter what child it is, because they love the chance to take a break and get attention. But people are just taught how not to ask questions and how not to be curious. Which is so sad. Yeah,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 27:42 because they don't get practice on how to frame a question. And I understand the the impulse of the parents, I think a lot of time the impulse is we don't want to make somebody feel different or feel bad. Certainly having done a lot of work in di there's that idea of you're you think you're the first person to ask the question. That's the 20th time this person has had to feel this question that day. The same time? If if the questions are never asked if the answers are never given, then things don't nothing gets normalized. Then people stand out as outliers because I have to stare at them and try to make a story in my head. Now I'm staring at somebody instead of asking them living in living in San Diego, we have a lot of wounded warriors, right. I would always tell my kids, when they would ask what do you think happened to that person's legs or their arms or whatever? I said, Listen, if you really, really, really want to know, you can respectfully ask them, Would it be okay? If I asked you a question? And they're not idiots? They know exactly what the question is, pertaining to. And then they have the right to say, No, I'm tired. I'm sorry, I'm busy, whatever blow you off, or you can simply ask. But what I don't want you doing is that like whispering pointing can sound like either you're truly curious asking with children, you get away with that a lot more, especially if they're cute and polite. Or you're not curious enough to ask in which case, then walk on by and go on and go, like live your life and do your day. But don't sit and stare at somebody and like whisper behind their back that's humanly evolutionarily, that's an incredibly uncomfortable position to be placed in as a human.   Michael Hingson ** 29:23 The media is what the media is, but I have to say, for me, and I've said it before on this podcast, after September 11, I made the choice to allow the media to come and interview me and I've been literally brought before cameras and had hundreds of interviews and I've been asked the dumbest questions in the world up to the most intelligent and smartest questions in the world. And I will not say even today, there is not a question that hasn't been asked because every so often, I'm surprised Somebody will come up with a new question that that makes me think. But I made the choice to do that. And it has been such a blessing to have all of that because it actually was great therapy for me because it made me talk about September 11. And all that was involved with that. But at the same time, it was a way to really get into discussions, and then learn how to frame responses. And the more times people wanted to interview me, the more I had to learn to deal with it, and did learn to deal with it to the point where it got to No, I wouldn't say be automatic to answer questions. But I was always open to answering questions, because the other part about it for me was being blind and different than 99.95% of the population. I figured that I needed to be a teacher. So I very rarely would refuse to answer a question. Because if I didn't, the odds are they wouldn't get the question answered. And usually, questions came as I understood them from misconceptions about what blind people could and couldn't do. And what I say wasn't what I say wasn't. So it was important to answer questions, and I really enjoyed and enjoy doing it.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 31:26 So I'm really curious, I have two questions for you. Do you? Yeah. If you feel free not to answer them if you don't want to. So I'll give them both. And you can answer them both, or in any order. So one of the questions is I have to ask, I mean, you said, I've been asked some of the stupidest questions. So I'm really curious what the stupidest question you've ever been asked is. And then the other question I have, because again, this is something I've worked on myself. This is something I've worked with other people, it's, there's an art to being able to answer things on the fly or process information on the fly, especially high stress or demanding environments. And so I'm wondering if you have any tips on how to do that?   Michael Hingson ** 32:12 Well, I'll answer that one first, just because you asked it. Second, we're talking about it. It's just practice. For me, a lot of times I had to when people asked questions in interviews, sometimes had to stop and think about how to answer and what to answer, because I hadn't been asked a particular question before, but the more I practiced at it, and the more I answered, the easier it became to think of doing things on the fly. And I'll and I'll tell you another on the fly story in a moment. But to go back to your first question. So the reason that I got very exposed in the media was that Guide Dogs for the Blind after a while on the 12th. I called and told them what had happened, Guide Dogs for the Blind up in Santa fell, because that's where I've gotten all of my guide dogs. And some of the people from there had visited me in the World Trade Center. So my wife reminded me that somebody was going to remember that at some point, so I called and anyway, they put out a story. And it was clear what happened, right? I was in the World Trade Center, I got out I worked in the World Trade Center was reported, I was the Mid Atlantic region sales manager for a computer company, a fortune 500 company and other things. You can't imagine the number of times that people would still say to me, what were you doing in the World Trade Center anyway? Hello, don't you read? And, and of course, the other thing was, they would say, Well, did you know what happened? And I said, No, not until later. Well, of course you didn't you couldn't see it. And so Mike, stock response to that is the last time I checked, Superman and X ray vision, were fiction. And the reality is, I was on the south side of Tower One, when it was struck. On the north side. 18 floors above be no one going down the stairs where I was had any clue what happened, eyesight had nothing to do with it. Yeah. And it is so difficult to get people to recognize that because they really don't understand that disability is not a lack of ability. And I know you mentioned Dei, earlier, but if you ask the average expert in diversity and so on about what diversity means they'll talk to you about race, gender, sexual orientation, so on and will not mention disabilities, which is so unfortunate. We're not part of the conversation. And that just bleeds over into almost everything. But the fact of the matter is, is I love to tell people, sighted people have disabilities to your biggest disability is your light dependent, and you can't do a lick if suddenly the power goes out. you'll lose all your lights until you can find a light source. Thomas Edison fix that for you guys originally, but the reality is that light dependence is just as much a disability as light independence. The only difference is that we are so technologically advanced in terms of providing light sources, that your disability gets covered up so often because you can turn on us flashlight or a smartphone or we have lights everywhere, it doesn't change the fact that the disability is there. And, and I don't mean any of that in a sarcastic or negative way. But I'm using that tool to try to start to get people to understand that disability isn't what you think it is, of course, some diversity. People say, Well, disability doesn't mean a lack of belief, because it starts with this. And I say, yeah, and tell me what it is about the word discrete, that makes it negative. You know, there's a dis indiscreet. Tell me about that, you know, and they can't, because the reality is that it has nothing to do with this disability is a characteristic. And it manifests itself in so many different ways. And very frankly, I've learned a lot of that by articulating it on various episodes of unstoppable mindset. So some people are probably getting bored with me saying it all the time. But it is still true, that we need to recognize that everyone has differences. It doesn't make any of us less than anyone else. Think   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 36:27 about this, you You're right, the majority of conversations that take place around D I have to do with race and gender. Let's just start there. Right. The majority of my conversations have to do with those, those two things are the intersection of those two things. And there's a lot of conversation that is starting to take place around like neurocognitive since right and when I when I talk with people who for example have pretty bad ADHD often present it like it's just really bad thing I'm like hold on because there's somebody who has a DD ADHD what I will say is, is it a disadvantage when I have to remember numbers absolutely terrible person cannot argue with my husband and win an argument the man can watch a movie quote the whole movie. Remember? Literally he will. He will say you remember we met at college, they'll say you remember that night we were playing spades. And so you played this card this person played and he'll go through the whole thing. Like everybody's hands on like, no, yeah, what was on TV and was I eating pickles like that might help me place the night who was there? Right? I'm a good person. I remember like broad strokes themes. But where it becomes an incredible advantage is and coming up with solutions. Because the brain constantly like I call it. I said, I say you know, it's the star blasts like a thought comes and you have 10 Other thoughts that spring from it. And then 10 others in 10 others and 10 others. If you can rein that in. If you can gain some control over that. It's a huge advantage. You talked about sidedness right and, and the advantage of being able to work in spaces with low light is somebody who's entering middle age or who's fully middle aged and whose eyesight went from perfect. To me wondering why people ever thought that six point font was a reasonable font, for any kind of label, and being very dependent suddenly on readers, especially in low light, right, looking at having to figure out the world in different ways becomes interestingly challenging. So there is this advantage. It's about looking at and this growth mindset, among other things, right. It's about being able to look at where where's there an opportunity here, as opposed to just thinking different equals bad? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 38:54 It is, it is something that we need to do and it can I submit, it still all goes back to curiosity, the more curious we are, and the more curious we allow ourselves to be, the more we will open ourselves to being able to learn and it is just the thing that we're not taught to do from an early age. So when you went to Duke, what did you major in psychology?   Michael Hingson ** 39:21 Of course you did.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 39:22 I started off I so I was an avid reader of as Pat Conroy, and ever read any Pat Conroy his stories are all about people being incredibly twisted and broken and in one way or another family dynamics. One of the books I read was The Prince of Tides. Now, I'm going to add to this contextual story. I was born because my older sister too at the time drowned and died. It was not planned. My mother neither my parents were not planning on having a kid actually. They would have been empowered. First of all, if not for the fact that my mother's an obstetrician told her when she went to get her tubes tied the year before, wait a year, and if in a year you still want this will do it. And in that year my sister died. So I came into a family with a lot of psychological trauma from all of that. So sometime in as a young teenager, I decided I want to be a psychologist. Right, that was the decision. I am going to be a psychologist and I had it all planned out what my career was going to be like. So I, I majored in psychology I specialize in as a child psychologist, I went directly to graduate school for clinical psychology specialize in child psychology. Where did you go? The University of Texas, Texas Medical Center in Dallas. It's a mouthful, but it is. And then came to came to here to San Diego because my husband got matched for residency with UCSD and same thing went directly got a postdoc, and as a child psychologist, open a practice as a child psychologist had my kids. And then I thought, who all the stuff that was fun about interacting with kids all day long, every day suddenly was not as much fun when I had to come back home and interact with his all day. So move to working with adults very specifically in anxiety, stress, what would be called burnout nowadays, yeah. Name back then. You perfectionism and, and then I did that for a few years and fell out of love with it. And then looked at what I did love about being a therapist, and the people I really enjoyed working with and fast forward a decade. I am where I am now.   Michael Hingson ** 41:49 So how did you come up with the name noteworthy.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 41:53 My mission for my company for what I do professionally, was to build a world where women could access the highest levels of leadership and empower at such a regular level that it was no longer noteworthy. Right now is very noteworthy, right, we'll say so and so the first the second CEO, female CEO of Pepsi, the first whatever, we haven't had our first female president, I don't think we'll have one for a very long time, right, those those kinds of things. They just want to get to a place where we can do see so and so CEO of Yeah, president of Yeah. And when I rebuilt my website, I showed it to two friends who are part of my, my board of advisors, personal board of advisors, and I said maybe maybe I should come up with a new name. The company's name is life and focus coaching, right? Because that I started as a life coaching business was my first transition. And one said, why don't you do noteworthy? Just like it is in your mission? That is where you're trying to women right now. We're still very noteworthy. So that's, that's, that's the story. I just need to get some of my clients for, say not worthy. And I'm like, no, no, no, not not worthy. No, worthy. You are worthy.   Michael Hingson ** 43:14 Yeah. So no, worthy certainly is, I think, a cool title. And I'm glad that you're doing it. So tell me a little bit more about exactly what you do. And why you do it.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 43:30 These days, I spend my time I'm really lucky. We just had a holiday dinner with my San Diego clients I have, I've worked with women all around the world. But because I'm San Diego base, I have a large contingency of current and former San Diego clients. And towards the end of dinner when most of them are gone. Because I cannot do a speech about something that moves me without tearing up and I'm like, I did still want to cry again. I looked down at the table, there were about five women left. And I said I just I just need you all to know that you are my dream come true. Right, which is true. I am very privileged to get to work with women who I genuinely believe are extraordinary. I do believe they're no worthy in their own right, whether they feel that way or not. And they tend to be by design for what I'm trying to achieve for them women who are executives, usually VP to the C suite. And these are women who have a track record of excellence. They're at the top of their game. But the cost, the price to pay, the effort that they've had to put forth in order to reach where they are in their careers tends, historically to have been much higher than their male counterparts. That's just the fact it's not a judgment. It's just a fact. And so when they show up in these situations, there are some habits that need to be broken. The habit of raising your hand to do all the things you can do versus positioning yourself to do what you do best and building your brand and your reputation around your top value. Knowing how to set boundaries without feeling guilty, the a lot of women I work with have fantastic titles, but they don't always feel or sometimes it's not about feeling it is the reality, they don't always have the authority that they need, with those titles to be able to lead very effectively or with impacts. That's, that's the work we do with these women and I, I get to leverage all the things I love about being a psychologist, so building trust, getting deep, understanding what what holds people back internally, and breaking down those barriers, plus all the behavioral, like everything I learned about being a psychologist working with children, and teaching parents how to parent effectively conditioned behavior, all of that gets applied to the these workplace interactions. So I do that with individual women. And then more and more, we're getting an opportunities to also work with companies and come into companies and either help them support and elevate individual women or build programs that will allow the woman that they have on staff to show up much more effectively to be really successful, which is great for the company and tends to drive retention. It is it is it is a dream come true. Because I'm one of the few privileged people that I know of who when she was really miserable with her job just got to rewrite kind of how she wanted to work and what she wanted to do. So that is that is what I do.   Michael Hingson ** 46:43 So in working with women, and so on, where can or do men get involved in the equation at all,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 46:49 they get involved in a couple places, a lot of the work I do around actually I'm on a, I had a committee I co founded a committee is around male ally ship. So simply teaching, helping good men understand why the experience is different for women, and helping them understand how to position themselves actively. So that they can be the men they think they are when it comes to supporting folks, in this case, women but I but I often make the case I'm like whatever I'm talking about that has to do with gender, it has to do with anybody and everybody this is human dynamics. So men have this like really great opportunity to kind of take off blinders and see situations for what they are and intervene and a couple of capacities. One capacity is simply sometimes to call out things that they see that have been normalized. Because as women when we call them out, or label this hysterical or emotional or too sensitive, or bra burners, whatever, just you know, another great way for men to step in is by using sponsorship really sitting there and opening doors. That's literally what sponsorship is, it's what we all do. You know somebody you know, you like them, you know that they do a good job like you recommend them to other people. That's what sponsorship is all about. So being able to do that having conversations with other men about stuff, right these are these are this is where men can really play an incredibly powerful role. So I we run trainings for male allies, which are fun. i It's a five part training and we don't start talking to them about techniques until we talk to them about constantly talk to a bunch of women and get their perspective. And then we'll come back then they'll say I didn't realize like, I never thought about the fact that when I leave on a business trip, I just need to like, take one pair of shoes plus my comfortable tennis shoes and think about this, but she needs an extra 30 minutes to get ready because there's an expectation that she's going to look a certain way. We talk about roadblocks all the reason why men despite having the best of intentions, despite like morally really being like solid human beings might not take action. And again, these are human patterns. They don't just pertain to gender, but things like being afraid of screwing up. What if I say what if I'm trying to help and I say or do something that's wrong and I make things worse, or being afraid to step in and do something nice for somebody who doesn't want your help? And I'm my guess is that comes up a lot when we talk about ABLE like ableism right? People somebody who might try to open the door for somebody or help somebody or give their seat another person I don't need you to do this. I don't need your help. Right and so that's another fear and of course the third one is what if I stand up and speak up and because of that I lose my status that I get I get told them all these things too sensitive to whoa too. And and then I start losing opportunities and to men and Generally, I'll say, those are all good things to be afraid of, they will all happen. Like every single one of them, you will put your foot in your mouth, you will make a mistake and trying to do something helpful, you will screw it up, you will one day try to help somebody who's going to look at you and be pissed off that you tried to help them because they didn't need your help. And you will get called out by somebody somewhere and at the end of the day, you'll survive, like you will just be fine. It's uncomfortable. And that's just the price of showing up for people. It's uncomfortable sometimes.   Michael Hingson ** 50:36 It gets back to what we talked about earlier. How much of that? And the answer is, I'm sure a lot how much of that is learned behavior?   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 50:46 I mean, I think most of it is learned. Yeah. I you know, and I actually will say this, I think most of the non action is learned behavior. If you ever watched a little kids, I mean, children, by definition are humans, by definition are egocentric, and children are like the, the the ultimate egocentric, like stage of human beings are completely focused on their world. And what's happening with kids are, we talked about this, like, relatively curious. When you teach them basic manners, it comes kind of naturally to them to open up doors to help to do things. We teach people to be afraid, we teach people to worry about making mistakes, we teach people to like stay in your lane, just stay in your lane, right. And then that gets carried like, to our adult selves and our adult behaviors.   Michael Hingson ** 51:38 Yeah, and that's, of course, the issue, we, we don't learn to be more open, we don't learn to be more curious. And we don't learn to be willing to step out or step, step back, and then step out and explore.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 51:57 And the same things that I teach men, by the way, I teach women to do for other women, and I teach women to do for other people, period, I am very selective. And one thing about all my clients is, they have to be the kind of women who will lift while lift others while climbing, they cannot be women who are going to get to the top, and we're going to guard their place. And we're going to put other people through the same hazing through the same, like, hurdles that they face just because well, I had to. Mm hmm. So this is a skill set to teach. And he's just about being a good human. I really like ultimately, it's what it comes down to.   Michael Hingson ** 52:40 What's the most important skill you think that a woman should learn as, as they're working in advancing and integrating in society,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 52:49 I will say that data shows that the most important skill a woman needs to learn for advancement is visibility, and how to build visibility. But what it comes down to, if we tap into like my, my experience, as a psychologist, what it comes down to is the ability to recognize and own what your true value is. Right. And that's such a gift. Once you do that for yourself as a as a woman in the workplace. First of all, yes, you can build visibility. So you can you can speak about what you bring to the table, you can articulate how that skill set can really drive impact in certain spaces, you can start building like your reputation as an expert, or your expertise in a field, like all of those things are really good. But the back end of that is also it's about owning it. It's about walking into the world and being clear about what you have to add to the conversation into the space. And to do that without false humility, or a sense of shame. And for a lot of women and a lot of girls, we're taught to not do that little girls from the time from the time they're in, like they're in sandboxes, I would say are taught to be collaborative and be helpful and share and give it to to their own detriment. So I've worked with women all around the world. And on every single continent, every single basic, general culture, larger culture, every woman tells me Well, in my culture, in my family, it's not acceptable to speak about myself, it's not acceptable to say I'm really good at this. It's not acceptable to say, well, you know, part of the reason we won that game, part of the reason we moved the needle forward on this project was because I was able to dot dot, dot. But if as women we learned to do this, not only will it benefit us, but it actually benefits the people we work with and for because by being very clear about what our top skills are and how best to leverage them, what we're actually communicating to people is how we can help them And the best way to help them.   Michael Hingson ** 55:03 And the reality is sometimes to break in as being a part of a team is to really be willing to say not in an egotistical way, but to say, what skills you bring and why you're a valuable part of the team. Yep,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 55:17 I was just having a conversation with a client of mine, who's a returning client. And she recently got a promotion, which is why she came back. And she has she's suddenly working on we talked about, like, her team is all pros, meaning they're like the top of the top. And initially, she's like, well, I don't even know what I bring to the conversation. They're all so autonomous, in some degree need to go back to the basics. What is it that you do really well? How can that skill set support? You support them? And how can you position that and rethink about what your value is to this team and communicate it to them so that you can support them what she's done very well in six months. And she's just onboarding a new, a new team member. She said, What should I do to help him integrate better? And I said, ask him the same questions. What does he love doing that he's really good at? How does he? How does he want those skills? Leverage? Where can you make the greatest impact? How does that fit in your team communicate that we build? The sense of togetherness? Those   Michael Hingson ** 56:16 kinds of questions will tell her more about the person she's talking with than most anything else she could do.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 56:24 And time and time again, it pays off.   Michael Hingson ** 56:27 Of course it does. It has as it should. So is there a book in you? Have you written a book? Are you thinking about it? Yes,   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 56:34 I have co authored chapters in many books. There is a book in me, I want to write a book that will be called. Now you see me about this idea of visibility and everything that goes into it. I don't know when I'm going to have the time to do this isn't that every would be one of the author's excuse. If you talk to my very first coach who I hired in 2018. He would he would tell you all summer has been saying I've been telling her to write a book since 2018 24. I don't know No,   Michael Hingson ** 57:08 you just have to decide that that's the priority and take the time to do it. That is true, then it will happen at the right time. If it matters enough, it will for matters to you or to whoever you'll you'll make it happen. Well, this has been fun. And I really have enjoyed doing it. I know you've got children to go pick up so I don't want to make you too late for that. So I want to thank you again for being with us and doing this episode with us. I appreciate it.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 57:38 And Michael, thank you. It's a delightful way to end the year. So I really, I have very, very much enjoyed our conversation.   Michael Hingson ** 57:46 Well, this has been fun. We'll have to do another one. We don't even need to wait till you you have a book but I want to thank you. I want to thank you all for listening to us on unstoppable mindset please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. And please transmit your opinions, your views your thoughts Melisandre would like to know and I would love to know what you think so feel free to do that. If people want to reach out to you and possibly work with you or usually as a coach, how do they do that?   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 58:11 There are two way places to find me one is the website which is noteworthy inc.co So noteworthy i n c.co. And then the other one is LinkedIn. So I'm there under D at whatever Dr. Alessandra Wall, but those are best places to reach me   Michael Hingson ** 58:30 and Alessandra A l e s s a n d r a Yep.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 58:34 And while is like the Pink Floyd album, W a l l, W   Michael Hingson ** 58:38 L. Well, thanks again all of you for listening. I'd love to hear from you. Please email me email, email me at MichaelHi at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n i love to hear from you really appreciate your thoughts. And Alessandra, for you and for everyone listening if you know of anyone who might be a good podcast guest or you'd like to suggest anyone, please reach out. I'm always looking for folks. And since we've both mentioned it Alessandra and I are speakers, we are always looking for speaking opportunities. She wants to go to the Middle East, I'll go there, but I want to make sure it's a little bit more peaceful when I go but I'd love to speak so if anybody knows of any speaking opportunities, let us both know, right? Yep, please. Are we speaking? We appreciate it. So again, Alessandra, for you one more time. Thank you very much. This has been fun.   Dr. Alessandra Wall ** 59:39 Thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of your day.   Michael Hingson ** 59:48 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Meet our guest this episode, Aimee Bernstein. Aimee has worked to help people become better persons for 40 years. She grew up in the New York City area. She will tell you of some of her challenges as a youth and how she grew out of them. Aimee spent several years as a dancer and then decided to secure a college degree in Music.   Her life has definitely been one of self-exploration and discovery. After obtaining her music degree she sang as part of the front act for several famous people. One day, however, her father told her that she needed to get a career. She did. She chose to adopt a counseling career and has never looked back.   Aimee used all her knowledge of psychology and counseling to eventually start her own company and coaching program. During the pandemic she also created a course which is available to anyone today who wants to begin to create within themselves their own art of discovery and self-awareness. She also has written a book which is available as you will see in our notes.   About the Guest:   Aimee's passion and purpose is to help individuals, teams and organizations unleash their potential_.  She is an executive and life coach, psychotherapist, organizational consultant, trainer, and keynote speaker with over forty years experience. Her work liberates people from limited mindsets, behaviors and energy habits in order to successfully navigate disruptive times. She helps them decrease resistance to change, build their dream team, and generate a resilient culture based on shared ownership which supports high performance and well-being.   Aimee is a thought leader in stress reduction and wellness cultures. Her book Stress Less Achieve More: Simple Ways to Turn Pressure into a Positive Force in Your Life (AMACOM) guides leaders and their teams in using pressure- the energy of change, to develop self-mastery , high performance and creativity while raising consciousness. The book is available in English, Arabic and Mandarin. It was voted one of 17 inspiring books to read by Thrive Global.   As President of Open Mind Adventures, Aimee's clients have included such companies as Chanel, The Port of Singapore, Colgate Palmolive, The Ritz Carlton, and Microsoft as well as numerous nonprofit organizations, and municipalities.   Aimee is the creator of The Roar of the MORE, a virtual interactive mind/body/energy training and coaching series. The program helps you clarify who you are becoming, identify the limited beliefs, behaviors and energetic habits that hold you back, and using energy mastery skills, guides you to _embody the upgraded, more conscious version of who you really are. Her approach is a blend of the energy principles and practices of aikido, which she has trained in for forty years, psychology and meditation,   Aimee received her Master's degree in counseling from Boston University and interned at Mass. General Hospital under the auspices of Harvard Medical School. While there she trained under Dr Matt Dumont, then Commissioner of Mental Health for the State of Massachusetts. Aimee has been listed in Who's Who in American Women.   Ways to connect with Aimee:   Facebook:   www.facebook.com/aimee.bernstein9 **                        www.facebook.com/OpenMindAdventures   LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/aimee-bernstein-289597/   Tik tok: aimeebernstein637   Instagram: instagram.com/aimeebernstein/   Twitter: twitter.com/aimeebernstein   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes:** Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Greetings once again and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Today we get to interview Aimme Bernstein, Aimme has a passion to help people, among other things unleash their full potential. And Amy is an organizational consultant trainer and a keynote speaker with over 40 years of experience in all of this and oh my gosh, that sounds almost like me. I won't ask you how old you are. But Aimme, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Aimee Bernstein ** 01:52 Thank you so much. And I'm not telling you how old I am.   Michael Hingson ** 01:58 So there you go, well, that's okay. 40 years is a lot of experience. And some people would say, well, that means you're old enough that you're getting more in toward the senior world. And it's interesting, it just popped into my head to ask about this, that, unfortunately, I see so many times that people think that as people getting are getting older, they really don't have as much value in the corporate and the whole structure of things. And they tend to be ignored a lot more than probably they should because people don't recognize the incredible vast amount of experience that C seniors bring that other people haven't figured out yet or gotten to yet, don't you think? Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 02:41 I actually agree. I think that what we know as seniors is that what worked yesterday doesn't necessarily work tomorrow. And because we've been through transitions in life, and we've seen how we've grown and change and how the organization's have grown and change to I mean, when I came in organizations were just autocratic, you know, then they started talking about, oh, we'll be authentic and transparent and stewardship and stuff like that, you know, well, they haven't achieved it. 100%, you know, we see is, we see the road a little clearer, because we've been down and, and the other thing is, I think that I am in, I am better than I've ever been in my life. I think I'm wiser, I think I am. I have more to offer. I'm more connected to my soul than my ego and my ego like I was when I was very young. So yeah, I do think that organizations sometimes pass us by. And what I've discovered is what comes to me is mine, what doesn't come to me is not mine. So   Michael Hingson ** 04:00 well. And the the other thing about it is that what we bring, especially if we work at it is a significant historical perspective to whatever, so that when we work at a company, and if we've worked at other companies throughout our lives and so on, we bring a lot of historical perspective that can help companies and younger leaders, if they would, but listen, but they think well, but your tool, so you really don't have any value anymore, which is so untrue.   Aimee Bernstein ** 04:33 Yeah, well, so far. I haven't. I haven't really dealt with a lot of that yet. We'll see what happens over time. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 04:46 Well, that's of course, something that just remains to be seen well as a consultant and as a coach. People seek you out. So that helps a lot also, of course,   Aimee Bernstein ** 04:57 yeah, it's been very much for me, it's spin very much word of mouth. So, you know, I worked with Sports Authority, the Vice President of HR for Sports Authority liked my work and when she went to Dolce and Gabbana, she took me with her. Then she went and Intel to lunch with a girlfriend who was the vice president of HR for Chanel. So all of a sudden, I'm working for Chanel. You know, it's always been like that for me. So we'll see what the future brings. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 05:26 well, it's, that's a good thing. And it's a good reputation to have that people seek you out and common, will invite you to come and be a part of what they do.   Aimee Bernstein ** 05:38 Yes, I think the other thing is that when I was 30, I was very interested in it was the woman's movement I was very interested in or what is power. And in this country, you learn about power in corporations or in politics. So I went into corporations and started working with them. At this point in my life, it's not that I know 100%, but I know pretty well, power. You know, I've, I've studied it experientially, and informationally for years. So I'm pretty comfortable there. Now my real interest is in helping people evolve their consciousness, because I see that the world's consciousness is changing. And consciousness is energy, energy has a frequency, the frequency has has sped up in order to unravel the old for the new to be born. And in the process, it's breaking down the old, right, so you see it all around us, whether it's, you know, systems, cultures, conflicts, wars, you know, whatever. And I want to be there for the leaders of tomorrow, who want to make a better world.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Well, how overall, do you think it is changing?   Aimee Bernstein ** 07:01 I see that I mean, I, I, I sense that as the consciousness increases, that there'll be more of a sense of the greater good, I don't mean, that is 100%. You know, but you know, we're in a system where politicians oftentimes are ego driven, where people are ego driven in the sense of, I have to get mine before you could have yours. I think that I think that it's going to be a little more compassionate, I see women 35 to 55, you know, that age, that group of women as because they have some experience, as they step into more of their power, I believe that they're going to be some of the leaders that lead us into the new world, because they're more willing to be compassionate to, to work with others to, you know, they see things in a in a different way. It's not just my way or the highway. If I'm right or not, who knows, you know?   Michael Hingson ** 08:15 Well, we will see, it's, it's interesting right now, it's still very much in a lot of ways, men controlling a lot of things. And there are some challenges there. Do you see men in any way, becoming more compassionate, becoming more open to what we have to look out for the other person? As much as we do ourselves? Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 08:35 you know, I have a new friend, a guy named Shaun Harvey, that is actually doing that work with men. He has a company called warrior compassion. And he's helping men become more compassionate, you know, so they, it's, you know, what I see is that we all have male and female in us. So obviously, I'm a woman, you know, I'm more female. But I have a male quality. And me, I think that, you know, as little boys, men, oftentimes were told not to show their feelings don't look weak, don't be vulnerable, that kind of stuff. And I think men are beginning to recognize that it's okay, that in fact, that's part of their strength. And someone like Shawn is helping them do that. So I do think that change is going to happen in both women and men.   Michael Hingson ** 09:26 Yeah, we'll, we'll see how it goes. I hope it does lead to more of a trusting environment than we're used to. And I think, I would think probably to some degree, both men and women, but certainly a lot with men that we don't trust. And we're taught not to trust even though we we do mostly like to be in a pack with other other people and so on. It isn't that we like to be an island ourselves, although I think there are any number of us who think that we did it all and we didn't know don't need anyone else. And that just isn't true. But I would hope that we're leading the way to establishing a little bit more of a trusting environment and interesting world. Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 10:12 I hope so, too. I hope so, too. It takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable. Yeah. You know, I'm not talking about vulnerability in terms of stupidity, you know, so you don't want to be vulnerable to someone who has harm wants to harm you. But to be vulnerable, particularly like with your employees who work for you, you know, that's a strength, you know, they you you model that, or to be vulnerable with your family? Or your friends? Yeah. Well, so,   Michael Hingson ** 10:46 yeah, we will? Well, it certainly sounds like the voice of experience. I'm talking to hear. Back to that. Tell us a little bit about the early AMI growing up and all that stuff that kind of got you started on the road where you are? Yeah.   Aimee Bernstein ** 11:05 I would say that the experience that I had as a little young girl was that I couldn't handle pressure. When I would hear my parents yell or be on the tennis court, and I'm dealing with too much physical pressure. I would have an epileptic seizure I had at all. I grew out of Petit mall when I was like 13 or so. But in those years, I just couldn't handle the pressure. My parents recognizing that I had dance talent ended up sending me to Marjorie Marshall School of Dance in the Bronx. Marjorie Marshall was the mother of Penny and Gary Marshall, seers and directors. And Marjorie was a stage Mother, you know, she at least it was the time of the Rockettes, you know, and she wanted these little girls to be mini rock rock hats. So she put a lot of pressure on us. But instead of having a seizure, I would just open and align and merge with this energy of pressure. And I was free, it was like I was a ball of motion, a ball of energy in motion it I was so happy, joyous, I didn't understand why in one situation, pressure was an enemy. And while another situation pressure was my ally, until I was in my 20s. And I met a teacher named Robert Nadeau, who's in eighth done Aikido master. Aikido is a martial art, and they call it the martial art of love or peace. It's about the resolution of the harmonious resolution of conflict. Well, I didn't give a squat about Aikido martial art. But I had experiences with this guy, I had met him through friends of mine, and I had experiences with him that I couldn't, I couldn't understand why I was having these experiences. You know, I've always to my imagination, but I kept having them with him. So I ended up going to study with him. And what I learned in the process was that pressure was the energy of change. And then there was a universal law, which says, Whenever there's a job or task to do energy comes into your system in the amount needed to do the job. Now, I understood that because, you know, I had been a dancer, I was a singer I used to perform for like 1000s of people, you know, and you feel that rush of energy before you went on stage. Similarly, when I give a speech in a corporation, you feel that energy, right, your legs get shaky. Okay, you run away, same thing. Well, what he taught was instead of resisting it, or forcing your will, instead of collapsing, Oh, I'm such a victim, Why is life treating me so bad? Instead of staying in your head and making bleep nothing was happening, you know, oh, you're cool. You're going with the flow. You know, he taught you how to open and align and merge with this energy. And when you did, what happened, what it would enhance your performance, your creativity, and raise your states of consciousness, your level of consciousness. So, learning how to deal with pressure has been life changing for me? Because it taught me how to open up to finer versions of myself. In other words, we all have different versions of ourselves, even in the course of the day. You know, there's the usual Michael Right, you know, let me say it this way, as usual, Amy   Michael Hingson ** 14:53 Michaels fine, too. It's okay. There's the usual Michael. Okay,   Aimee Bernstein ** 14:57 so usual Amy. Let's go Okay, and she gets along pretty well. And she gets her work done and all of that stuff, you know. And then there's every once in a while, Amy shifts, she reacts or something happens. And she shifts to a smaller version of herself where she can react and say things or do things that she wishes she could take back, then there is this version of AB that is just amazing. She's open, she's big things come out of my mouth, that I don't even know that I know. You know, it's like I'm channeling it by performance is extraordinary. You know, I'm intuitive, like you can't imagine I'm creative. Like you can't imagine, you know? Yeah, well, the same is true with all of us, all of us. We all have those places of being extraordinary. You know, my friend Felice, when she gives us a presentation, she owns the room, my friend, Jeff, when you sit in the car, doesn't matter who is trying to, you know, get in front of him or cut him off, or whatever, he just is king of the road, you so calm, my mother used to pick up a crying baby, and the kid would immediately stop crying. We all have those places in us. The thing is, we don't know how we got there. So they remain extraordinary moments. What nado taught was how to shift to a upgraded version of yourself so that the extraordinary became more ordinary, you know how to call it in? That was life changing? You know?   Michael Hingson ** 16:27 Do you think that speaking of pressure, a lot of the pressure that we feel, is really self imposed, and that there are reasons for that   Aimee Bernstein ** 16:41 there is the pressure of the situation. So if it's a small little situation, you know, there's a little bit of pressure, if it's a huge situation, big situation, there's a whole bunch of pressure. So there's that. And then we can either, then there is our reaction to that pressure. So some people, what they do is they go in their heads, and they start analyzing and telling stories, that's, that adds more pressure to it, you know, it doesn't help the situation harms it. So we end up if you close down to it, or you start telling stories, or stay in your head with it, you're going to feel discomfort, distress, and overtime, if you keep doing that disease,   Michael Hingson ** 17:25 I am in the process of finishing a book, actually, it's written and it's in the hands of the publishers, and they're doing what publishers do. But it's a lot about controlling fear and learning to control fear. And one of the things that I read a lot as I prepared and began writing this book is that oftentimes fear exists in our lives, because we really don't know how to control it. And we, in fact, become just afraid of so many things, or because it's uncertain, we're afraid of it, or for any number of reasons. And we fear so many things that really are irrelevant. There's nothing and no reason to be afraid. But we become afraid until we really can stop and analyze what is going on in our lives. And recognize a Why am I afraid of that? Because it has nothing to do with me. I   Aimee Bernstein ** 18:24 will I agree with you that we certainly make it worse by all the stories that we tell, let's see, my trading was different. My training was, instead of just being aware or trying to be rational, you know, I learned that insights don't necessitate change. If they did, everybody would get their their New Year's Eve resolution Smit, you know, what I learned is to get out of my head and into my mind body learns that control begins when you give it up. Because control is the ego trying to protect itself. And as soon as you shift into your mind body, you can open to that flow. And when you open to the flow, that becomes an easy journey. You know, it moves you in the right directions. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 19:24 and I'm not at all saying that. Controlling fear is about just being rational. I don't expect people to become Mr. Spock. But rather, that you learn to use as you would call it your mind body, that you learn to look at yourself and spend time interest. Well, practicing introspection, practicing, understanding yourself and raising that awareness that helps you recognize that you don't need To be so afraid, what you can do is use what we call fear as a very powerful tool to help you function better and it can help steer you.   Aimee Bernstein ** 20:09 Yes, yes. I mean, I agree with you my formula is self awareness plus presence or mind, body and body, you know, embodiment stuff, creates the skillful action or the transformation. So, um, yeah, I agree with you, I see fear as energy coming into the system. And what we do is we close down to it, then I experienced so on my solar plexus gets tight, right, that's the place of fear most you know, and I lose my grounding, I lose my center, I lose. So I just go in my head, and I get, you know, more stories more. I make it worse. So yeah, I agree with a view that self awareness is important to aspect to understand, you know, the patterns and no, I don't need to do that, and all that kind of stuff. And then you get to make the true shift, you need to go back into your mind body. So, I mean, I, I've seen it both ways. I used to live with the Grammy Award winning pianist, and you put the man in front of the piano, and he was just extraordinary. You take him away from the piano, and he was needy, and had a lot of issues in life, kind of very tough time. On the other hand, I've seen people who were so brilliant in awareness, self awareness, but it's all ideas. It's all information. They don't know how to actually live in that. So, you know, Facebook pages, you see all this wisdom, the spiritual wisdom, but you know, I don't believe that everybody is actually there's nothing and you know, so you need both. You do.   Michael Hingson ** 21:54 Talk is cheap. And I remember hearing once I'm a fan of old radio shows, and one of the best comedians, that ventriloquist was Edgar Bergen and his, his sidekick, Charlie McCarthy. And oftentimes, I heard people say, Edgar Bergen really just didn't know how to, to talk to people. And so he did it through Charlie. And when in a workout, I guess I'll write for him. But I hear exactly what you're saying he had to do it through Charlie, as opposed to just doing it himself. Yeah. On the other hand, he made a good career out of it. So quite a quite abiding sense of humor and, and a really great sense of humor. So So where did you go to college?   Aimee Bernstein ** 22:47 I went to Hunter College in New York, part of the New York City chain of college in New York. And I went I was I was 16 when I went to college, and my manager found me. He used to sing with his son. And he was he was a clarinetist for the Tommy Dorsey band. So he found me singing, he liked me. So he had my parents sign a contract where he would pay my manager. So when I went off to college, he insisted that I was going to go in for politics. He insisted that I get my degree in music, which I did. You know, and then I went, and I got my masters later, but not in music, in counseling psychology. So,   Michael Hingson ** 23:40 what do you think about having gotten a bachelor's in music? Was that okay? Do you? Are you happy with that? Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 23:47 uh, you know, my first job was working as a music teacher in the Bronx in a ghetto. And what I discovered was that I cared more about the kids and what they were going through, and when they knew who Beethoven was. So that ended up moving me to, you know, going into psychology.   Michael Hingson ** 24:13 So well, and that's, that's fine. Um, you, you sent that and you sensed that you obviously had something to contribute to, to helping other kids, which is, of course, part of your goal that we talked about at the beginning that you'd like to help others.   Aimee Bernstein ** 24:31 Yeah. Yeah, I believe that everything that happens in life is for your higher good. So all of that music stuff was great. You know, I had wonderful when I went off to when I left that job, I went off to college. I, I I ended up going to California and I ended up being in a rock gospel band with 20 singers and five backup singers, backup players and two tap dancers. And we did Ron, Jack, Crosby, Stills and Nash and the Grateful Dead and ROM das and Krishna Das. It was a great time of life. Just fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, you know, until my father sat me down with his big cigar and said to me, you're either gonna get married or get a career. I said, Okay. So I went, and I got my masters. You know, it all worked out fine.   Michael Hingson ** 25:22 So how long ago was that? Oh,   Aimee Bernstein ** 25:25 too long ago.   Michael Hingson ** 25:30 Did you move back to New York? Um,   Aimee Bernstein ** 25:32 no, I didn't. I stayed in California for 18 years. And then I moved back to there. When I moved to Florida. My parents were getting older. And I felt like I needed to be there, which was a good thing a year and a half later, my father feel so it was all worked out.   Michael Hingson ** 25:49 Well, it did. And has he passed now or?   Aimee Bernstein ** 25:53 Yeah, my father passed a long time ago. And my mother did too. So your   Michael Hingson ** 25:57 mom did too. Yeah, both of my parents did in the 1980s. And I miss them a lot. And my wife of 40 years just passed last November. But I as I tell people, you know, I gotta be a good kid and behave, because I'm sure that she's monitoring. And if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it. No doubt in my mind. Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 26:20 I believe that too.   Michael Hingson ** 26:24 I always thought that Karen was was smarter than I was. So sometimes things would pop out. That just little nuggets of wisdom that that I never thought of, and I'm not surprised at that. So I'm sure she's monitoring. And you know, I'll just do my best to be a good kid. Yeah, keep the cat happy, which is the biggest goal in life just as well. So you. So you got a degree in counseling. And what did you do with that? Exactly.   Aimee Bernstein ** 26:54 I was actually, you know, again, things worked out great. I wanted to go into, they had different groups in master's degree, were, like, interned in different groups. So one group was the existential group, which was very big at that time. Existential counseling, I knew they were climbing mountains and doing all kinds of things. And I wanted to get into that group, and they were all filled. So I got into the behavioral group. And it was a blessing. I got my training from Ed MassGeneral hospital, under the auspices of Harvard Medical School, studied under Matt Dumont, Dr. Mike Dumont, who was the commissioner of Mental Health for the state of Massachusetts at that time. So I had a fabulous education. When I was done, and I was you know, as, as the intern, I what I was doing was addictions counseling. So I learned a lot about how to deal with people with addictions. And one of my first clients was manic depressive. You know, I learned a lot on the job that way, came back once I was done there, I ended up going out to California. And again, and I worked as an addiction counselor for a number of years, until I got done with that. And then went into employee assistance, programming. And then started my own school, which was the living art school, teaching people about this energy work that dealing with stress and pressure and all that. And then changed once again in when I became interested in empowerment, and I started the Women's Development Company, which was the first mentoring company for women out in California. It's all it's been all arrived, you know, one thing led to another. Now, where   Michael Hingson ** 28:50 are you now?   Aimee Bernstein ** 28:52 Now? I am.   Michael Hingson ** 28:55 Where do you where do you live now?   Aimee Bernstein ** 28:58 Where do I live now? I live in South Florida. Okay, so you're in Florida. Yeah. You know, until I get a clue about where I need to move. Next unit. I've been here a long time. I'm ready to go. But yeah, I'm not sure where that would be. Somebody   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 sent me a video last week commercial for Antarctica, but   Aimee Bernstein ** 29:18 no, no.   Michael Hingson ** 29:19 I pointed out that I'm not gonna go there. There's no Costco. There's no target. It's a little bit colder than I like, so I'm sticking where I am. I'm fine in Victorville. California gets cold enough here. Yeah, too, too cold and too many other things that don't exist in Antarctica. So we're not going there. Yep. Yeah. Well, so today, it seems to me. We have a lot of stuff going on. We have a spike in mental illness divisiveness, of lack of trust, and we talked about even the weather What the heck is going on?   Aimee Bernstein ** 29:59 Well, I kind of mentioned at the beginning, I believe that the consciousness of the world is changing. And I think people can't handle that kind of frequency that increased frequency. They don't recognize that it's an increased frequency. They just feel pressure. So, you know, there's more fentanyl deaths and, and shootings, mass shootings. I mean, you know, I don't have to tell you, you watch the news, you know, but yeah, we are. But the good part is, this is an opportunity for each one of us to evolve our consciousness, you know, so it's I am, I've been going through this myself over the last few years. And I had a dream, where I'm looking at my computer, and there's a red curtain opens. And there are people inboxes, and they're singing. And I call my mother over who is deceased, you know, in this life, I call her over in the dream. And I said, Mom, I can't believe that I created this is it amazing. And in the morning, I heard part of the song. When the message from your core tells you, you owe more, don't shrink, don't think, believe it, when the message from your soul tells you who you are home, don't shrink, don't think the LI they did. And that's when I created the roar of the more mind body energy training and coaching series. It was all the work that I've been showing executives over all these years. And I put it together in a package and wanted to give it to the public. So that was a huge shift for me. And it was my way of helping those who are ready to evolve who go yeah, this is an opportunity for me, I'm done with the old, it's not that the old was bad. I'm just done with it. I want more those who sent the more than worth, the more   Michael Hingson ** 32:09 well, it is an evolutionary process. And it gets back to introspection and, and everything else. And the more we think about what we do each day, what worked, what didn't work. And I don't like to use the word failure, because it's got a negative connotation that it doesn't need to have. But what worked, what didn't work, the stuff that worked? Could we make it work better? The stuff that didn't work? What's the deal with it? And what do we do about it? It's all about what we choose to do about learning about how to move forward. And we seem to not like to teach that I know that we just don't seem to do too much teaching of introspection and self analysis at all, which is extremely unfortunate, because we're our own best teachers, and we just don't tend to want to do that.   Aimee Bernstein ** 33:04 Yeah, I agree. I mean, we you know, it's, it's certainly not something people learn in school, counseling for it or whatever. But, yeah, there's a lot of life skills that we just don't teach. You know, I mean, being introspective is one of them that certainly, well, being in general, you know, what I eat and how I move and all of that, how I talk, how to deal with conflict, you know, how do we do? How to what is self care? You know, all that stuff. We don't talk about no school?   Michael Hingson ** 33:41 Well, or anywhere, really. We are we   Aimee Bernstein ** 33:44 I'm teaching that nonprofit organizations why? And I'm teaching at a couple of corporations. But it's all new. Nobody talks about self care 10 years ago, this is all new stuff that self care is on everybody's lips. Yeah. But it's not institutionalized. That's the thing. It's, you know, like, during the pandemic, a good boss will call you up and say, How you doing, you know, oh, and you tell him a little bit, but you're not going to tell them the whole deal. Because if you tell a man I'm really stressed out, he's gonna think, Oh, she can't handle the pressure. So she's not promotable, right? Yeah. And it's like, I had one vice president of HR got a new job for a big company that was you know, real into productivity, performance, all this kind of stuff, major corporation. And he said to me, and I liked this guy, he's smart, he's good with people. He's great at his job. Six months in or so nine months, and he said to me, Amy, I'm really stressed. I said, Look, why don't you create a self care plan? And, you know, do it for a few months till you see some results and you're feeling better, and then announce it to your staff and I You know, maybe make a video or have a call with them or whatever, tell them about your plan and ask everyone to make a plan for themselves. You know, then you're modeling it. He said no. And I understood because he didn't want people to think that he couldn't handle it tough enough that he wasn't. So until we can, leaders can institutionalize it by modeling. You know, yeah, we do a little bit of it, certainly not enough. We   Michael Hingson ** 35:30 just can't seem to be able to get past this idea that we have to be tough and macho. And I think it's more men than women. But it happens all the way around. And we just seem to not want to be able to recognize that there are a whole lot more aspects to our lives than we'd like to admit.   Aimee Bernstein ** 35:53 Yeah, I agree. I mean, there I saw some research a few months ago, where they said that women who have the same success Records as the men in corporations, and maybe even a little better, will not get promoted as fast because they don't have that top kind of edge to them, that that the man has, and that's considered leadership.   Michael Hingson ** 36:18 And it's not, but it is considered leadership. Yes, that's right. That's right. And the reality is, it's different characteristics and different abilities and different capabilities. Yeah, and that's just as much leadership and we don't tend to, to to deal with it. People have asked me actually, somebody asked me last week, what do I get out of doing all these podcasts? And I thought it was a fair question nobody's ever asked me before. But I had made up my mind a long time ago, that, for me, if I'm learning at least as much as anybody else who listens to the podcast, that I'm getting something out of it. And one of the biggest things that I have learned, and I've mentioned it a few times, although not quite in this context, is that for many years, I would talk about listening to speeches, as as I, as a public speaker would travel and speak. And I always record and listen to speeches later. And as I said, I'm my own worst critic, because no one's going to be tougher on me than I am. But I learned along the way that actually, I'm the only one who can teach me anything. And teachers can provide information, but I'm the only one who can teach me and I have to want to learn it and teach it to myself. And what I have started saying literally this year, which is I think, probably the biggest thing that I've learned, doing two and a half years of podcast is I my own best teacher, forget my own worst critic. That's negative I my own best teacher. And that's really what I think, is a major paradigm shift that a lot of people ought to do is not worrying about being tough on themselves. How do I learn? And how do I connect respect and respect and in respects, introspection, but how do I learn and grow? And that's what we just tend not to do. But we all are our own best teachers.   Aimee Bernstein ** 38:13 Yeah, I, I agree that the only one that can ultimately teach me is me, you know, it's me that's going through the experience. It's me that's allowing things. And yet I see that I am blinded. At times, I am blinded. I, I just all I don't know it also, I respective you know, and when I meet people who can show me things, point out things that I hadn't seen or hadn't recognized or hadn't experienced, that's even better experience. Wow, that's just like that just, that just opens the door for me that, you know, takes me to a whole other place. So I think it's both, you know, it's me, I have to, I have to go through it myself. I have to want it. And yeah, and I need people to show me the way sometimes.   Michael Hingson ** 39:09 At the same time, the reason you're able to do that, though, is that you've taught yourself to be open to looking for new experiences and looking for new ideas and concepts and attitudes. And yeah, there can be some times that you can be close to that, but I would bet more often than not, you've chosen to learn to be open. Yes.   Aimee Bernstein ** 39:32 That's my company is called to open minded ventures.   Michael Hingson ** 39:35 There you go see exactly.   Aimee Bernstein ** 39:39 Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, I recognize that I mean, you get the spiritual leaders who give you these absolute truths. We are all one. We are all love. You know, I am God and you are God. Now, I mean, I agree. The man you live in there 24/7 I don't think so. You know, we're still human beings and human bodies and, you know, so you have these experiences, and then you shift back to a more material, physical plane, you know, I, I, I'm curious, my teacher said something to me, that shifted my shifted me in a way that was huge. I've always believed that my main purpose in life was to help others, you know, to, in whatever way help people them evolve, help them get off drugs, help them whatever it was, you know. And what he said to me was your main purpose in life is for yourself to return to self. You know, and for those who might not understand it's we all have different versions of ourselves that operate at different dimensions. And then there is the true self or soul, right? And over the course of your lifetimes, you're learning things, you're just you know, you're getting rid of certain karma, you're having certain experiences, right? You're growing, evolving, okay? And the next life, hopefully, you do a little bit better or whatever. And overtime, you know, that's the, that's the game. He said, That's the journey. He said, When he said that, to me, it was like, it was so clarifying to me, you know, to be able to align my perceptions, my energy to that, that self, that true self. So then when I'm making a decision, you know, that's my that's, that's how I make it you know, I asked myself, is that is that for my is that Will that get me to my true self more? Does that align me to my true self? Or is that my ego? Because I got an ego. We all got egos. Right. So yeah, anyhow, that was, I'm not sure why I'm sharing this with you. But it was very life changing for me.   Michael Hingson ** 42:06 We've been talking about this shift in consciousness that's going on, what do we need to know, in our lives, for this shift in consciousness to help us,   Aimee Bernstein ** 42:16 you need to know how to how to open align and merge with pressure, the energy of change, because the pressure is only gonna get greater. And if you open and align to it, what happens is your human energy system, okay, so we all have an energy system, right? guy goes to war, he cut his arm off, it gets amputated, right? He still feels pain in the arm. Initially, we all have an energy body. Okay, what we need to do is align the energy body, your energy, human system, to the universal system. Einstein said, That's where all creative ideas. So we know that for example, when you you know, where did the best idea when do you have the best ideas? Oh, when you're when you're in the shower? Oh, when you're when you just wake up? Oh, after sex? Oh, you know, when you're very relaxed, that's when the great ideas come? Well, what we need to learn is how to open and welcome this energy of change this pressure so that we can align our human systems with the universal so that we begin to pick up these creative ideas, this energy flow that will lead us into a better world.   Michael Hingson ** 43:40 It all still gets back to us being open to doing that. But that's exactly what we need to do. Yes.   Aimee Bernstein ** 43:49 We're finding more people or I mean, it is no, it's no big surprise to me that, you know, I don't know how many years ago, 10 years, 20 years ago, mindfulness comes in. When I was 20 years old, nobody talked about my nobody talked about mindfulness, the only people I mean, I was in a group of people studying Aikido. Yeah, we were meditating. We were doing all that we were studying energy work. You know, we call it energy training at that time. But we were a very small group of people doing that, you know, mindfulness is just like getting, it's every day kind of stuff.   Michael Hingson ** 44:26 We call it it is, but I think a lot of people don't really understand that they use the word they throw it around. But I do agree that more and more people are learning about what mindfulness really means and how to become more mindful in their own lives. Yeah, it's it's a process.   Aimee Bernstein ** 44:45 It is a process, the product The problem is that you know, I was talking to a guy who is a mindfulness teacher, and he's, he's a big hoo ha in in South Florida. He's very good at what he does. Now And he was saying that what he finds is people will take a mindfulness class. And maybe they'll even you know, but then then they're done. It's like I've done it. Yeah, that's what I learned is you don't get to Carnegie Hall without practice, practice, practice, right? You need to keep doing I have, I have 10 years on the mat. In Aikido, I have 40 years studying with the same energy teacher, you know, practice, practice, practice. So yeah, these people who they do it, and then they're, they're ready to do another something else. It's It's Lady Gaga, shallow, shallow.   Michael Hingson ** 45:36 Well, again, it's all about I'm my own best teacher, and just taking the class is only the door that opens to give you access to the information. It's a question of what you do with it. Yes, yes. You wrote a book called Stress Less achieve more, which is great. And you distinguish between stress and pressure? Tell me about that, if you would,   Aimee Bernstein ** 45:59 yeah, pressure, as I said, was the energy of change coming into your system to help you deal with the situation? Stress is the resistance to that energy. Now, there have been, there's one woman who speaks about how you deal with it, and she has you strike a pose to be able to handle it. And yes, that works. But that's something that is imposed. You know, rather than me tapping into me becoming so expert, at sense feeling that I can move with the flow easily. Am Am I being Am I making sense? You are? Yeah, it's like I had this, I had this experience when I was younger, I was at the eye, every year, they'd have an aikido retreat. And they have a talent show at the end of the aikido retreat. So you know, you're practicing Aikido for seven days, day and night, blah, blah, okay, now they have the talent show. So I sang the rose. And I practiced and practiced and practiced, I had it down, and I had a woman who was the pianist, and, okay, I go to sing the song, I start singing it. And I remember the words, I remember the tune, but it's coming out differently than how I practiced it. Like, the phrasing is different, and I get really scared, I can't call a do over, you know, I gotta keep going. So I just kind of go with it. At the end of the song, my teacher runs over to me, picks me up, and like, hugs me. And I realized what that was about was, the pressure was so big, the energy was so big in that performance, that I couldn't control it in the way that I had practiced it, I just had to let it go. And in letting it go, it went with there was a flow that was even better than what I had practiced. And my teacher saw that he's he, he saw and experienced that flow in me. And that's why he came over to, you know, hug me congratulate me. I think that we need to learn how to opening to I mean, I keep repeating myself, I don't I don't mean to, but opening to that flow is enormous, enormous it is to learn how to do that to let go to to let go of the control to soften and surrender with it, to move with it, to analyze to see, you know, the idle, the analysis of it, is to recognize when you make a decision, and you're doing action, what is the ripple effects of that action? We don't usually consider it. So for example, I used to live on a lake, bunch of houses on a lake, and one of the homeowners complained that there was weeds growing. So with the Association and all its wisdom came and chopped down the weeds. Problem solved, right? No, until the snakes that were so used to being in the weeds came on the land. So then the homeowners association had to go get someone to catch the snakes problem solved, right? No, because now the rats had nothing to eat. So they came they came back on the land. You know, what I learned and what I teach and stress less achieved more, is an inner map for aligning with that energy of change, so that when you making a decision, right, you are moving with the flow, you're not just going off on your great ideas about things. It   Michael Hingson ** 50:13 all comes from dealing or from a standpoint of dealing with change, and doing your best to recognize or not, which is what happened it with what you're describing, people didn't anticipate very far ahead at all. No,   Aimee Bernstein ** 50:28 no, they know. And most people don't they do it action. Oh, that's a great decision, but they don't see how it affects people. Yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 50:38 You know, you talk a lot about the whole issue of the way to relieve stress is to eat sleep, ate at least eight hours a day, have a good support network and so on. But in your book, you say that often, that's not really enough. Can you kind of explain a little bit more about that? Yeah,   Aimee Bernstein ** 50:59 the way that we have it down is we have to do something more in order to relieve stress. Now, I'm all for meditation, yoga, all that kind of stuff, you know. So yes, keep doing it. However, what I've learned is, you need to let go of that, which is creating the stress. So you need to learn to settle your energy down. You know, when three guys are coming to attack you, all right. You can't go meditate, you can't go to yoga, you can't do anything, you got to be there, immediately. You're gonna get a huge rush three guys that come in to attack you. Yeah. You know, if you everything in the universe is to beat, the waves come in, the waves go out the sunrises, sunsets, if you're on the highway, someone cuts you off you go. Right, the energy comes out. What we don't teach people is how to settle it down. Once you settle it out, see people want to be happy, they want to be high. You know, oh, I want awareness. I want to be happy joy. But that's all great. Except that's only half of it. You need a foundation of grounding. The tree with the biggest, deepest roots is the tree that's going to still stand with the hurricane force winds. We need it's the same thing for us. We need to settle that energy down and grounded lead ground so that we can under stand another person under stand we sent under them. Right not it's not an MMA, it's not a mental process, understanding. It's sensing under them so that we sense what they're feeling what what's going on with them. Right. As you learn to ground and settle your energy down, which comes through practice, there is a new confidence that begins to happen just like you throw a stone into the into the water and it spreads out ripples out. When you ground your energy. It's going to it's going to, you gotta get a spread that happens, it spreads out. So what you'll start feeling is more spacious, you know, you'll feel more empowered, you'll feel more confidence, which is what people want. It's not a mind game. It's a experience of grounding and opening and spreading, radiating like the sun.   Michael Hingson ** 53:40 And you have to feel it and you have to let it in. Yes. That's why I know when I started speaking, and occasionally people still ask, but when I started speaking, people said, Aren't you afraid to get up and speak in public? You know, we, you don't know what the audience is doing? You got to be afraid, aren't you? And I never have been afraid of speaking in public. But when people started to ask me that, I remember a few times thinking, gee, am I supposed to really be nervous when I got to get up and speak? And when I got up and spoke after some of those things started to to to enter my mind. I went Wait a minute, this this is not what you do. You have been enjoying it the audience's have been enjoying you don't get nervous about something. There's not some need to be nervous about. What I did learn, though, was more techniques about how to analyze how the audience was reacting to what I said. So I thank people for asking me the question, but not for the reason that they thought but I have never, and it was a volitional decision. I've never felt fear of public speaking because I I also realized early on, I don't talk to an audience, I talk with an audience. And that's what I should be doing.   Aimee Bernstein ** 55:06 Yes, yeah. So just and   Michael Hingson ** 55:10 and, you know, that's, that's really kind of the way it ought to be.   55:13 Hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 55:15 Well, what's your formula for personal transformation? How do we get people to move toward what you're describing?   Aimee Bernstein ** 55:27 You have first you have to, you know, the formula is the self awareness plus the embodiment creates the transformation, all that, but in order to do that, you have to meet them where they are, you know, you need to make a blend with them and see the world from their perspective, which means that you need to take off your own shoes in order to stand in theirs. And when you can see the seat of truth, then you can begin to lead them in another direction, because now you're, you're in harmony with them, you know, now, they have the choice and the right to say no, right? I had, I was working with this, the senior vice president of a world class business, a cosmetic company. The first day I worked with him, I, I did some energy, work with him. And he was a guy that was a very good man had a couple of daughters. So when he worked with the women of his team, he ended up being a benevolent patriarch. So instead of them solving problems among themselves, Daddy would come in and help them solve the problem. Alright, so I did this energy stuff with him. And he saw his pattern. And I said to him, in order to create your dream, Team change has to happen. Change begins with you. You have to you have to change first. He left, and he told me later, he was pissed off. How dare I say that to him? You know, because most consultants will tell you what you want to hear. They want the job. But I don't do that. So, you know, but then he went home. And he thought about it. And he said, you know, she's right. And I worked with this guy for six years. Until he retired. I, I think that by making the blend and telling them the truth, and then they make the decision, just like you said, you know, do I open to it? Do I want to change? Is there more for me? Do I have the strength? The the willingness to go through it? You know, if they say yep, okay, now you're on a roll.   Michael Hingson ** 57:50 So, you you've been coaching people for quite a while. And during the pandemic, you created a new series, right?   Aimee Bernstein ** 57:59 Yeah, I did during that. Yeah. Because I, I saw, you know, people weren't getting together and people going through this transformation. And you know, at that time, when I created there wasn't too much going on in terms of transformation. Now more people are talking about it and offering classes and stuff. But yeah, I, I am interested in you know, I did it with I did a, I did a speech for visa pieces mindfulness group. And one of the executives from visa, heard me speak, and she ended up going into the world of the more training. And she told me was life changing. Now when I hear that, I go, that's it. You know, I mean, I did my, that was worth everything that's happened. You know, just to just to get that kind of feedback. Yeah. Yeah. That means a lot to me.   Michael Hingson ** 59:05 I know exactly what you're saying. And when somebody comes along with one of those unexpected compliments or spectacular things, it makes everything worthwhile, doesn't it?   Aimee Bernstein ** 59:20 Yeah, it really does. It really does. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 59:24 tell me if people want to reach out to you learn more about roar of the more or your company and maybe see coaching and so on. How do they do that?   Aimee Bernstein ** 59:35 Yeah, they can go to www dot open mind adventures with an s.com Open mind adventures.com And on the menu bar, you'll see the word the more and there's a video and information and testimonials and you know, it's for people who are not just interested. It's for people who are have committed to themselves who have that self love that say that says, there's another chapter for me, you know, I can sense there's more in me more potential more, whatever it is confidence, love, whatever, you know, and they want it, they are ready for it. Those are the people that I'm looking for that are. And in terms of the coaching and the, I do something called shared ownership for success with corporations where we get people together, and we have conversations that matter. And I did this was one organization that was the Tax Division of a world wide, international accounting firm. And two years later, I just got an email a letter from them, rather, saying that their revenue went up 35%. And people are getting together more and working as an engaged team. So you know, that's on my website to the shared ownership for success crosses. And you know, all you got to do is just, you know, can't fill out the contact form. And therefore you or email me at Aimee at open minded adventures, I spell my name A i m e e  its, French A I, M E. E, at open minded adventures, and I'm very accessible.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:22 There you go, Well, I hope people will reach out, you've offered, I think, a lot of good insights that I hope people will take advantage of, we need to bring more sanity into our world anyway. So I hope that people listen to what you have to say, and that they will take advantage of the many opportunities that you bring, I assume you coach people all over the world.   Aimee Bernstein ** 1:01:45 Yeah, I do. You know, I, I was I did a speech for edge walkers International. I don't know if you know them. But they're an international organization of people who walk the edge between the spiritual and material world, and they tend to be very intelligent people who are doing good things in the world. Someone heard me speak and all of a sudden, I had a coaching client from Dubai. So you know, and I've worked at the Port of Singapore. And so yes, I'm available to whoever you know, is ready for me.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:17 Well, I hope people will reach out. And I want to thank you for being here with us today. And I want to thank you for listening out there. We really appreciate you taking the time to hear what Amy has to say and hearing all of the various parts of our conversation. So thanks very much. We would appreciate you giving us a five star rating wherever you're listening to unstoppable mindset. We value your ratings. And of course, needless to say, Love the five star ratings whenever you can. So please do it. If you want to reach out to me to learn more about some of the what we're doing with the podcasts and also, as I've mentioned, I am a public speaker. So you're welcome to reach out to me at Michaelhi at accessibe.com. That's Michaelhi at accessibe A c c e s s i b e .com. If you want to learn more about our podcast, you can certainly go to www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast and love again to hear from you. Appreciate your ratings. Appreciate all that you have to say. And most important of all, Aimee, we really appreciate you being here with us today and taking the time to give us so many great insights and thoughts.   Aimee Bernstein ** 1:03:34 Thank you, Michael, thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:43 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

In today's true crime documentary episode of Love and Murder: Heartbreak to Homicide, Ky delves into the case of a SoCal pastor accused of paying $40,000 to have his daughter's boyfriend killed. On October 21, 2022, Riverside police responded to a hospital where a 20-year-old man had been shot multiple times. The investigation revealed that this was a murder-for-hire plot orchestrated by Samuel Pasillas, a 47-year-old pastor from Victorville. Pasillas allegedly paid the hitmen to carry out the shooting because he disapproved of his daughter's relationship. The victim survived and provided crucial information to the police, leading to the arrest of Pasillas and his accomplice, Juan Manuel Cebreros. Both men were charged with multiple offenses, including attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder. The case remains under investigation, and authorities are seeking additional information from the public.Anyone with additional information should contact Detective Nic Cantino at (951) 353-7104 or NCantino@RiversideCA.gov. Those wishing to remain anonymous can email RPDTips@RiversideCA.gov Poll Question:Do you know of any situation where parents tried to stop a child from dating someone for their own selfish reasons?Share your thoughts in the comments below, join the discussion on our WhatsApp group, or participate in our Facebook community.

Dr. Rebekah Wanic is all that and more. She grew up in Chicagoland and decided to major in Psychology during her undergraduate work. She continued her studies after moving to San Diego where she still resides today. Rebekah and I talk about a number of topics from making and being responsible for your choices to reading Braille. Really, reading Braille as you will see turns out to be a quite fascinating and thought-provoking topic. Dr. Wanic offers many thoughtful insights and absolutely wonderful life lessons we all can use. She is the epitome of unstoppable as you will see. She has faced challenges, and she has chosen to work through and overcome them. About the Guest: Dr. Rebekah Wanic is a dynamic motivator who thrives on pushing her boundaries and those of others. Fueled with a passion for hard work and building relationships, she has worked with students, entrepreneurs and individual clients in the U.S. and abroad as a university lecturer and mindset psychologist. Originally from the Chicagoland area, she graduated with a B.S. in Psychology with University Honors from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign before moving to Southern California. There, she earned her Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of California, San Diego with an emphasis in applied social psychology studying the role of power in relationship health and the influence of mindset on social comparison outcomes. Passionate about inspiring the success of others, she has worked as a professional development trainer and adjunct faculty advocate and the internal mindset coach for a company supporting emerging entrepreneurs. Currently, she is a university lecturer, conference speaker, and blogger in addition to working with individual clients on mindset mastery. Dr. Wanic has taught over 16 different psychology courses, ranging from introductory to graduate level. She has taught courses at several different colleges and universities, including National University of Singapore, Nevada State University, Columbia College South Carolina and several community colleges in the San Diego area. Dr. Wanic's home university now is University of San Diego and she also teaches courses at San Diego State University and Nova Southeastern University. Dr. Wanic is also an avid writer. Her work has appeared in academic journals and online publications, including Times Higher Education, Minding the Campus, and Spiked Online. She maintains two blogs, PsychSkeptics and Optimization Notes, aimed at social critique through a psychological lens and self-development. She has a novella set to be released early next year and is working on the manuscript for her next book. She and her twin sister recently created a podcast, Unwarp Reality, designed to help uncover the bias and manipulation in the mainstream media. In addition to her work, she enjoys being active with a healthy balance of reading, watching sports, and just relaxing. Ways to connect with Dr. Rebekah: https://linktr.ee/rebekahwanic https://www.venttoreinvent.com https://venttoreinvent.substack.com/ https://unwarpreality.substack.com/ https://psychskeptics.substack.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi there, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're back again. Yep, you haven't lost us yet. Thanks for being here to listen, we really appreciate it. And if you're on YouTube, thanks for being here to watch. Yes, we are on YouTube, as well as all the places where podcasts go. And you are listening to unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion, diversity in the unexpected meet. And it's that way, because inclusion goes a lot further than diversity does. And sometimes we talk about that. And sometimes we don't. And we'll see with our guest today, whether we get to that or not. I don't know whether it'll even come up but it did. And so now it's here. Anyway, I'd like you to meet Rebekah Wanic. Rebekah is a very dynamic individual in a lot of different ways. She's a dynamic motivator, she pushes boundaries. She's an author. She's done a lot in the world of psychology and most important of all, she lives in San Diego, California, which makes me extremely jealous. So Rebekah, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:19 Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's so great to be here to have this conversation.   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 Well, I lived in Vista for six years, so I know what it's like, which is why I'm jealous. Yes.   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:29 And I appreciate San Diego so much coming from Chicago originally. Every day, especially in the winter is a nice one.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 When did you leave Chicago?   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:39 I moved to Southern California in 2003. So right when I finished my undergraduate degree.   Michael Hingson ** 02:48 Well, I was born in Chicago, but we moved out when I was five. So I grew up in Palmdale, California, so about 55 miles west of here. So the weather was relatively similar to what we have in Victorville. Not totally similar to what we have in San Diego, but we cope.   Rebekah Wanic ** 03:08 You get more of the extremes than we do. We're pretty insulated here on the coast. Oh, I   Michael Hingson ** 03:13 know. I think it's still the best climate certainly in the whole US if not the whole world. We we didn't get the extremes in San Diego that we get here. And in the winter. We don't get the snow because we're down in the valley. But all the ski resorts around us get the snow. We had two inches of snow one Saturday during this last year. And it was gone by the next day. So as I love to say the kids didn't get even get a snow day.   Rebekah Wanic ** 03:39 But then you also didn't have to shovel Right? Right.   Michael Hingson ** 03:42 When I'm not concerned about needing to have snow. I'm perfectly happy not to have snow here. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to do that. I mean, if we get that much snow here, it must really be bad around us. Although, earlier this year, I heard that mammoth ski resort actually didn't close their doors for the winter. Until August 6 of this year. Like a six they're skiing. Wow. Holy Jamali, as Colombo would say, you know, that's that's kind of crazy. Well, why don't we start? I love to do this with maybe you telling us a little bit about kind of the earlier Rebecca growing up and in Chicago, what life was like and all that sort of stuff?   Rebekah Wanic ** 04:30 Sure. Yeah. So the early Rebecca I think was a malformed version of the Rebecca that exists today. I was really lucky because I have a twin sister. So growing up I always had a companion to kind of play around with and she's super fun interesting person so we it's kind of a built in friends to go explore places with him and I also have an older brother, but you know, because he was a boy and a little bit older wasn't as close with us. But we did a lot of the traditional Midwest growing up things. So most of our vacations were to go visit our grandparents up north in various parts of Michigan, which was quite fun. But I growing up, I had really bad asthma. And so as a consequence of that, I had to be careful being outdoors, I had to be careful going over to friends houses that had dogs, I had to be careful with exercising and everything. So I was kind of the sick one in the family. And my sister to her credit, had to put up with a lot of we need to leave the sleepover, we need to leave this event because she'd be dragged along with me whenever we had to go. And so I don't like the cold as we were just talking about the weather. And as soon as I was able to sort of break out of the Midwest, which was after college, I don't think I was mature enough to move away from home for undergrad. So as soon as I finished my undergrad degree, though, a roommate of mine got a job in Torrance, California, and she said she was going to go out to SoCal. And so I just was like, Well, you know what, I think I'll move out with you. Because I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. And California has a lot of really good graduate programs. And at the time, when I was looking at psychology, some of the top programs were out here. So I just moved out with her lived and worked as a waitress for a year in Redondo Beach. And then, luckily was accepted to UCSD for graduate school. So that's when I moved down to San Diego. And I've been here ever since, with the exception of a small trip to Singapore for a couple of years during COVID.   Michael Hingson ** 06:33 Wow, that's interesting going to Singapore, what took you to Singapore, a   Rebekah Wanic ** 06:39 job, I got a really great opportunity to teach at their National University of Singapore, which is consistently one of the top schools in Asia. So it was really fortunate to be offered the position there. If the unfortunate thing was just the timing, because I went in November of 2020. And so I was mostly there during COVID. And there was a lot of restrictions. And so it was really difficult to kind of integrate and develop, you know, a social life when you don't know anybody. And you're in a totally new place. But it was still a great experience, I would say,   Michael Hingson ** 07:09 what's your sister's name, by the way, Liz, Liz. So you're not identical twins.   Rebekah Wanic ** 07:14 We are identical for you. But   Michael Hingson ** 07:16 you didn't have names that began with the same letter? No,   Rebekah Wanic ** 07:19 we are not saddled with that. But all of our names are biblical names. So my grandpa was a Lutheran pastor. So my sister and I have names from the Bible, and then most of our cousins do as well. What's your older brother's name? My brother's name is Andrew. So he's, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:38 that's fair. Okay. My late wife's relatives, a lot of the girls had middle names of Lynn. Oh, Tracy, Lynn, Vicki Lynn and so on. So on. Chelsea Lynn and Chelsea is Tracy's daughter Vicki was Karen sister, and Tracy's mom. But Chelsea when she started having her two kids decided she did not want Lynn for their names. And she has one name Scarlet. And the other is Charlie. Charlie is Charlie Rose. And I forget what Scarlett who's a year older as her middle name is, but not Lynne.   Rebekah Wanic ** 08:18 That Lynn Excellent.   Michael Hingson ** 08:21 But yeah, I you know, I remember Chicago a little bit. I don't remember a lot of snow. But I remember school. I remember walking to the local candy store and doing some things around Chicago. And I was was blind back then as well. I was blind from birth due to being born prematurely and being given too much oxygen, which is something that happens. But, but nevertheless, you know, we survived. And it all worked out pretty well. So, and I had a lot of fun in Chicago. I was back there a few years ago. And it was in March. I was visiting cousins who still live there. I think they were in DeKalb. Okay. And it was a Sunday and it was the day I was going to be leaving to fly back out to California. But that morning, it was the morning of the polar plunge into Lake Michigan. Oh, okay. So Jimmy Fallon and Rahm Emanuel were to two of the people who were there. Rahm was the mayor at that time. And of course, Jimmy Fallon. And they were going to do the polar plunge and the reporters after they did it had a lot of not nice things to say about them because they said, these guys were dumb. They went into the lake dressed in their full business suits. And right around the same time they went in there was this woman near them who went in in her skimpy bathing suit so when she came out, they all went into the warming tent. You can imagine how long it took Fallon's and the manuals clothes to dry and she was drying Oh time. I agree Sir Porter was not well planned was fun. But it was pretty cold. I think we were down. The temperature was I think minus, no, I guess it was like three degrees. So it wasn't quite zero, but it was close.   Rebekah Wanic ** 10:16 Yeah, I was there last winter. It wasn't really that bad of a winter, we didn't have some of the extreme stuff. I remember one time growing up, it had rained, and then it froze overnight. So when we got to walk to school, everything was coated in ice. And on the trees, it looks really, really cool because it was kind of like crystals all over, you know, it was left to the branches and stuff. But walking on the sidewalk was not pleasant, because you just sort of slipped as you walked up a hill, you were slipping back down as   Michael Hingson ** 10:51 well, in May of 2001. So September 11, hadn't happened yet. They had a late snowstorm. Now our house was on what we call a pie shape, lots of the driveway, went out to the street, and then came in 65 feet, and then the lat spread out so we could build so we could have a house. But it was I guess sort of terrorist. Our basement was a walkout basement. And then on the first floor, there was a deck that was built in it was over the place where you could walk out on the basement side to go outside. But as soon as you walk outside from the basement, you got to go down a hill. And that's where I would take the dogs to do their business. There was not a fenced yard. But right at the end of what our property would be, it was kind of a small forest. And on one side on the other side was route 22, which was really noisy, but the snow came, which was no big deal. But the next day, the sun came out and melted some of the snow. So that night, the ice was as slick as glass, oh man, and I put on my boots and took the dogs out and went down that hill. Somehow I made it down. And I even made it back up. But then I decided after that I am not going to do that anymore. So I have a long leash, a flex leash. And I stood at the top of the hill and I let the dogs go down. And I didn't do it.   Rebekah Wanic ** 12:19 Very smart.   Michael Hingson ** 12:20 It was I'd never experienced anything like that in the rest of the time that we had been in New Jersey. But that's what what happened that day. It was crazy. And it was that way for a couple of days.   Rebekah Wanic ** 12:31 Wow. And that can be really dangerous. Because you don't you don't necessarily even recognize that all the ice is there. I did. Luckily for you.   Michael Hingson ** 12:41 Yeah, well, it was pretty treacherous. But I'm you know, the dogs didn't seem to have any problem with it. Bless them. That was great. Yeah. Not i I'm glad I didn't go go out anymore. But then I'm warmed up. And now all went well. But you know, it's it's it's interesting, I love the United States, because we do get to talk about the weather and, and the fact that it's so different throughout various parts of the country. I visited excessively in Israel in August. And they kind of can kind of can talk about the weather there because in the south or near the ocean or near the ocean, there's a lot more humidity and less than the North. It gets as hot as it does here. I don't know that they really believe that. But it does. We get at least as hot as Israel. But we don't get the humidity here. But they talk about the weather from a standpoint in part of humidity, but they don't have to worry about as much snow.   Rebekah Wanic ** 13:40 That's true. Yes, Singapore is this. It's pretty much hot there. Every day it rains somewhere every day. Not really a lot of seasonal variation, except in terms of the amount of rain that you're getting. But for me, it's I don't like cold. I was happy to be in 95 degrees every day. Most people wouldn't like it, but I loved it.   Michael Hingson ** 14:03 Well, you're not doing too bad in San Diego. And as you said, at least you don't have the extreme so on on any given day, you can go out to do cafe and have dinner. Yeah. Not suffer too much. So Halloween won't be probably as cold for you as it usually is for us. It gets it gets cold at night and I'm afraid it's going to do it again. The temperature was warm last week, but it's cooling off. And I'm afraid by next Tuesday it will be cold.   Rebekah Wanic ** 14:30 Yes. Are you gonna dress up for Halloween?   Michael Hingson ** 14:33 No. The lady who helps me here doing paperwork and stuff my my assistant, my office worker, if you will, or my sidekick has five children, one of whom doesn't like to go out and Trick or treat. He broke his ankle a couple of years ago so it really hurts to walk a lot. So he wants to stay with me if I'm not going to go out and do anything on Halloween. So I'm going to stay home we're not even going to give out candy we're going to close the door. Watch and turn off the light. Well, I don't know whether we're showing off all the lights, but we're not gonna give out candy and we'll watch a movie because that's what he wants to do.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:06 Oh, fun, that'll be nice.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 And he can play with the dog and the cat.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:12 Awesome. I love Halloween. It's my favorite holiday because my birthday is the day afterwards. So we would always when we were kids, my sister and I, you know, since we're twins, we would have our, obviously a joint party together, but it'll always be a costume party. So I just because I love getting dressed up and stuff. So Halloween is definitely a fun day for me. That's   Michael Hingson ** 15:32 pretty cool. Well, that'll be fun. Sorry, you're going to dress up this year.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:38 So this I mean, I'm teaching you know, I teach psychology classes. So I have to come up with something that doesn't look too wacky in front of the classroom. So I will wear a wig of some sort, since I will take any excuse to wear a wig and then figure out what I'm going to tell the students I am probably I've probably figured out Monday nights. But this weekend, when I go out with some friends, I'm going to be Sandra Bullock's character from the movie Speed. Okay, see how many people recognize it? Because I know it's getting dated now. But obviously, people my age or older ones still understand it? Well, you   Michael Hingson ** 16:12 mentioned where you could always try to dress up like Hermione Granger from Harry Potter.   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:18 I don't need that my hair looks like her.   Michael Hingson ** 16:24 There you go, Well, that is going well then just walk in with a wand and see if they figured out I actually   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:31 do have a Dumbledore one that I got from Universal Studio. Oh, I've all set.   Michael Hingson ** 16:39 So it's an elder one, does it? Yes. Oh, good.   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:43 Well, as a professor, you know, you have to have the professor one.   Michael Hingson ** 16:46 You certainly do. Well, so you mentioned that you have a neuromuscular condition?   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:55 Yes, I do. And it's one of those fun things where there's no actual answers for me. So I would say probably now about five years ago, I used to work out quite a bit. And I noticed I just couldn't run every time I ran, I felt like I ran a marathon, I'd have to take like hour long naps to try to recover from it. And my fingers and my toes started hurting and tingling. And until you know, when I first went to the doctor, they were I was really scared because they were like, Oh, it sounds like it might be Ms. But I had all the tests and screening for that. And nothing showed up. And then I had a bunch of other tests and nothing showed up. And then because you know, I'm used to doing research, I was researching online. And I thought I have a lot of evidence that suggests this might be small fiber neuropathy. So I had a fight with a bunch of doctors because you know, you're middle aged women, you go into the doctor, they tell you everything stress, oh, it's stress. And I was like, I have a PhD in psychology, I'm fairly certain if this was stressed, I would be able to diagnose that. So I had to fight a quite a bit. I probably saw like eight different doctors before I finally got to a doctor, I said, this is what I think I have, I need you to give me this test. And he didn't want to give me the test because it's kind of invasive. But lo and behold, after I got the test, it showed I had small fiber neuropathy. But that's not a super helpful diagnosis. Because it's sort of like you have a blue crown that's blue. You're just labeling something that you already know exists. Why do I have it? What do I do about it, all of that still unknown. And then when I was in Singapore, I went to the hospital there because I the whole bottom part of my leg was just numb. And so I was having trouble walking because I couldn't feel when my foot was hitting the ground effectively. And so there went through a whole nother round of tests. And he told me I have my atonia which again, is not that helpful, because it's just like your muscles are overactive, they're always tight. And I'm like, I know what I was telling you when I first came in. So it's kind of been at first it was really a struggle of you know, this fear of the unknown is it going to keep getting worse now I think I'm fortunate I've gotten to a place of acceptance, where I just accept this stuff will hurt me all the time. I have to regulate the amount of physical activity I do. So I don't get you know, overly exhausted. And I'm kind of getting myself to the place where I can have a bunch of extra energy so I can go back and interface with the medical community to try to see if there's new answers or a new doctor I could talk to you about what might be able to be done about it now.   19:27 Does lose have any of this? She doesn't she   Rebekah Wanic ** 19:30 doesn't. It's funny because I always say like I'm the twin that got stuck with all two of us because like when we were growing up we went to get contacts I couldn't really get contacts I'd really bad a stigmatism I was allergic to the contact lens. I was allergic to the context solution had really bad asthma. She has asthma but it wasn't to the extent that mine was I was hospitalized for it multiple times. And then when I started getting the this muscle stuff, I told her I was like you know we're twins You better watch jailed for this. And she was like, I think I'll be fine. Like, you're the one that takes all of it.   Michael Hingson ** 20:06 Just you're just the troublesome kid. Hmm, exactly.   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:11 Through no fault of my own, I would say but yeah. So   Michael Hingson ** 20:14 when you were in college, what did you study as an undergrad?   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:17 I studied psychology. And then I also spent a lot of time taking philosophy courses and comparative literature courses. And that my major was psychology. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 20:28 And so you just stuck with that all the way through the PhD world coming out here? Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:33 yeah. I mean, to me, it's, it's one of those fascinating topics where the more you learn the I mean, if you're motivated, I don't think everybody does this. But for me, everything I learned, I'm like, how does this relate to my own experience? And how can I use it to try to make my own experience better and more functional. So my focus was on social psychology in particular, because the way that people interact with each other was really fascinating to me, you know, growing up with a twin and seeing some of the ways that it was really helpful for me in terms of overcoming stuff dealing with life, but also some of the ways that it made me a little bit, I think, more timid than I otherwise would have been, because my sister is really dominant. And she really great, but it took it took us kind of separating for me to sort of grow more into my own and develop some of the self confidence that she had more so when we were growing up, but that that interplay between self and situation has always been something that's really been part of my focus of attention.   Michael Hingson ** 21:33 So what does she do since you're in psychology? Oh, my   Rebekah Wanic ** 21:36 sister is awesome. She's done everything. She when we, her undergraduate degree was in anthropology and I think maybe international business. When she finished, she went to Japan for three years to teach English. Then she came back and she lived in New York City. And she got she was teaching in an inner city school. And she got through City College, a teaching credential, a master's in education, too. And then when she finished that, she started working for the UN. And then she got placements in several countries in Africa, working for the UN, eventually came back to the States after getting sick, went to Naval Postgraduate School up in Monterey, California, and got her degree in cybersecurity. And this is a woman who never took a computer science class her entire life, graduated the top student in her class. And so now she went back to New York City, and she's working in a big financial institution right now. Wow. Yeah, she my sister is like one of those people who she is. She's one of the smartest people I know, hands down.   Michael Hingson ** 22:43 Well, that's a neat story. She's certainly gotten around and done lots of stuff. And the two of you sound like you complement each other very well.   22:51 I hope so. I   Michael Hingson ** 22:52 hope so. So, you went to Singapore, which certainly had to be extremely fascinating, especially when you intellectually look back on it, because it happened during COVID. You mentioned something earlier? Well, when we were chatting, and then you sent me some information about it that you had a big challenge getting over to Singapore in the first place. Yes.   Rebekah Wanic ** 23:14 Okay. So first of all, I got I went over there in January 2020, for my interview, and then I found out that I got the job, the beginning slash middle of March. So I found that I got the job right before everything kind of hit the fan in terms of, you know, lock downs and stuff. And so I had sent my acceptance for the position was and said, I was going to go over there in July of 2020. The day after I sent them my acceptance, I got a message from them that was like, yeah, there's no way you're coming over here in July. No one's coming in every everything shut down. We don't know exactly when you're going to be able to come. So then I had to like, you know, re assess. Because, you know, I had started making plans, like giving up my job here in the States moving all that stuff. So I had to like reevaluate, got my job back to teach classes in the fall semester, 2020 here in the US, but I was basically on standby. Because Singapore said, you know, we'll let you know when you can come we'll give you maybe like a two week notice in terms of the window of time that you can arrive. And then at the time they approved you to enter the country during a three day window to 72 hours to get there. Wow, you had to have a COVID test that was done within that 72 hour window. So I was getting ready to go and then because it was COVID the flight I normally would have taken which was from San Diego to San Francisco, San Francisco over to Singapore. That wasn't operational. So I had to fly San Diego to Seattle, Seattle to Narita in Japan, and then Rita to Singapore. So when I checked in to the airport in San Diego I had my paperwork my you know, if the letter from the government saying I can enter see pour my COVID tests, all this stuff checked off. When I get to the transfer window up in Seattle, they call me up to the counter or my passport check COVID test, check paperwork, check, check me off, I'm good to go all the way to Singapore, I get to Japan, Japan wants to look at my paperwork and says my paperwork is not correct. Because I didn't have my passport number on top of the COVID test. And they would not let me through. So So basically, I'm in Japan, and you know, I'm trying not to, like freak out, but I'm freaking out. But you know, I was like, Rebecca, you're an international airport, you can't create an incident you're gonna live in prison, right? So I had to kind of, you know, like, stifle things. And then basically, they they walked me from this, this counter to a plane to go back to the United States. And I said, I can't go back to San Diego, I have no apartment. I have no staff. I have no job. I have no family. Can you at least send me to New York City, because my sister at the time was living in New York City. So they put me on this plane to go back to New York City. And I've wasted about a day's worth of travel through all this iteration. It's about 1214 hours for me to get from Japan to New York City. So the first couple of hours, I'm on the plane, and I'm the only person on this plane. I was like, Rebecca, this is it, your life is over. Just get off the plane, don't even tell your sister landing in New York go be you know, like a homeless person, whatever, like, you know, like your life is over. But then of course, you know, after I let myself wallow for a few minutes, I was like, No, like rally, okay, you're going to New York, if there's any place that you need to be to get to Singapore in time, it's New York, it's going to have the most options in terms of flights. But my COVID test at this point would have expired. So I had to figure out to how to get a COVID test within less than four hours. Because I figured out there was one flight that I could take from New York, that would get me to Singapore within the window of time that I needed to get in during the 72 hour approval time. One flight. And so in order for me to get there, I needed to leave my sister's house at a certain time. So I had four hours from when I landed in a at JFK to get to the airport in Newark in order to get out to fly to get to Singapore in time. So I googled, there was a place in New York that would do this, because New York is the place where you can get everything for money. So six hours later, $5,000 later, I was on a plane to Singapore, and I made it within the window of time, but it was basically about 72 hours worth of traveling. So when I got to Singapore, they had a COVID a COVID quarantine so I had to stay in a hotel for two weeks. They basically met you at baggage claim, took your stuff and you put you on a bus and sent you to a hotel. So I was so drained at this point and stressed that the first three days, I didn't care that I was stuck in a hotel room, I just slept and recuperated and stuff. And then I always think you know, it's like, you can be in the midst of stuff that's really not going well for you. But that there's there's gems of hope. So I was so lucky because the hotel that I got put up in for my quarantine was the Swiss hotel, really nice hotel, and I was on like the 36th floor, my room had a balcony overlooking the bay. So I had fresh air I had a great view. So overall, my quarantine experience was not nearly as bad as it could have been. But I think the contrast of the horror of it probably made it really good.   28:30 And it was warm. And   Rebekah Wanic ** 28:31 it was warm. Yes.   Michael Hingson ** 28:33 I, I understand a lot of those sentiments, my inlaws and Karen and I and two other people, two other relatives, went to Spain in 1992. And Karen and I had been working at the company we worked for putting in long hours and like even the night before we left, we work till 10 o'clock just to get everything done. And literally when we got to Spain, we were in Tenerife for the first week, okay. And mostly, we'd go to sleep, and we slept till three in the afternoon, both of us Wow. And then we would get up and we would be with people. And we did that for most of the first week until we finally caught up on sleep. Yeah, and we didn't mind a bit. We enjoyed it. It was great. It was amazing. But then we got up and we had a late breakfast, which was usually a burger or something else because it was three in the afternoon. It was fun, but we really enjoyed going over but we didn't have the kind of airline challenges that you did. I had a little bit because they insisted that being blind I had to sit in a specific place in the airport until the next flight, even though I was with a family all of whom could see and they didn't even restrict Karen Being in a wheelchair her whole life. But they, they insisted that I had to be somewhere and they separated me from everyone, which did not make me very happy at all. Needless to say, it was crazy. It was ridiculous to do. But you know, so what's the lesson you learn from all the traveling and all the challenges that you had going to Singapore? And all that happened? What do you learn from that? What do you take away?   Rebekah Wanic ** 30:23 So the first thing that I learned was to, like, double up on everything, because I think if I had had like, an extra piece of paper with my COVID test, I would have just written my, my password number on it and been like, oh, wait a minute, do you think it was this piece of paper that you wanted me to have? But I think the other thing, I mean, honestly, this is what I always tell people about challenges. And like, I am one of those people who like if stuffs gonna go wrong, it's gonna go horribly wrong. But the older I get, the more I appreciate it. Because now, you know, I can I can laugh at it doesn't mean it doesn't bother you when it's happening. But I get over stuff so much more quickly. I'm just kind of like, alright, you know, come at me life right here. Here's a new challenge that you've thrown my way. And let's see how I'm gonna go and get over it. So it just teaches you that you're way more resilient than you oftentimes give yourself credit for. And you don't know your resilience unless you're presented with the challenge that you have to overcome. So I think that's that's the biggest takeaway for me and my sister a lot of times, what has she, you know, big international traveler, and I think I had told her before I was moving to Singapore, like, I'm a little bit nervous. And she's like, you just figure it out. Because you have to, you know, and I think that the more that you go through those kinds of experiences, the more that you realize that that is true, right, you have to rise to the challenge. So you figure out a way to do it, and you just move on.   Michael Hingson ** 31:44 Were you afraid at all, when the whole stuff was happening with Singapore.   Rebekah Wanic ** 31:50 I was like, for that short period of time, when when I got on that plane to leave Japan to go to New York, I was afraid that everything that I had planned for was completely crashing to the ground. But then I thought to myself, even if it is, you have two options. Option one is you let it happen, right, you let it crumble, but option two is you fight against it, you fight for what you want. And so that's what gave me you know, the strength to like rally and investigate. And of course, I mean, you know, when I talk about how amazing my sister is, because she's she's always there when you need her. She's like one of those great people to have and, and I knew that if I asked her for help, she was going to be able to help me. And you know, she didn't just help him with the logistical things. But like, you know, she's just like a good person to have in your corner. So the other thing is like, Don't ever be afraid to use your network and keep the people in your life who are going to be the ones that are there for you. You know, a lot of times we encounter people who are takers, not not givers, and you obviously, you want to be a giver yourself. But keep keeping good relationships with the people who are the ones that our stand up, and we'll be there to help you is really important than then be appreciative to them. You know, I tell my sister all the time, how awesome she is. And I think that she really knows that I'm so appreciative of everything she's done to help me in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 33:13 But that goes both ways, though.   Rebekah Wanic ** 33:16 I hope so. I mean, I feel you know, how you You never feel like you're good enough to give somebody who's awesome held, like, I hope that I helped my sister, but I, I feel like the nature of the relationship. And that one, I think, unfortunately, I'm a little bit more of a taker than a giver. But I hope that you know, I can give her what she needs when she needs it. Well, something   Michael Hingson ** 33:35 must be going right, because the two of you get along very well. Where is she these days? Where does she live now in New York. She   Rebekah Wanic ** 33:41 was living in Long Island City for a long time, and that she just just bought a house in New Jersey. So it's super, super exciting. So her and her husband, it's our first home. So that's really, really exciting. She's like, we've got space. We're not you know, living in our cramped New York, one bedroom apartment on top of each other anymore. So it's super, super exciting.   Michael Hingson ** 34:01 We're in New Jersey   Rebekah Wanic ** 34:03 in Bernardsville. I think that it is yeah. We   Michael Hingson ** 34:08 lived in Westfield for six years. And we built our home so that it was wheelchair accessible. And that was a lot of fun. And we had an elevator and I know for a week after September 11. I use the elevator a whole lot more than Karen did. We had to have a two storey home because that was the only kind of home that would allow you to build there was no room for ranch homes. So we had to have an elevator. And I was so stiff and sore for the week after September 11. And I use that elevator all the time. Wow. I couldn't walk up or down the stairs at all it was it was pretty bad. But you know it happens. But it's it's interesting to to hear what you're saying though, because we we all have the ability to help each other. And one of the things that strikes me is we all want to be independent. We all think that we want to do stuff ourselves. It's just me. I'm independent. I don't don't need any help. But yet, we want to stay connected, or we mostly want to stay connected except for people who don't understand the wisdom of it. How do you? How do you do both be independent and stay connected?   Rebekah Wanic ** 35:12 Yeah, that's a great question. I think I think about that a lot, right? Because, you know, I live, none of my family lives in San Diego, I decided, you know, I just I need to go out and be on my own. But what I, what I sometimes have to do, to be honest with you, is put little reminders in my phone, like if I, something's happening with someone in my family, like they have a job interview or an important doctor's appointment, as soon as I hear about it, I put it in my phone, so that I can make a note to like, call them or text them to follow up on it. And it's as a way of showing that, like, I'm keeping them in what's going on with them as a priority in their mind. But I think it helps, at least for me with balancing sort of, you know, the connection and independence is, a lot of times when we seek connection, it's just because we need something. And so I try really hard to make sure that when I'm reaching out to people, it's not because I need something, it's when I'm coming at it from a position of strength so that you don't feel like you're always you know, taking, taking taking that you can feel like you're being a giver, you want to share some things that are fun, share some good news with people. But I think the other thing that I always keep in mind is, every time you ask for help, you're taking some limited amount of resources from someone else. So it doesn't mean that you should ever feel bad asking for help, or that you shouldn't ask for help. But by recognizing that when you do, it puts you in a mindset to make sure that you're not going to take more than what you need. And that you're going to position yourself to be oriented towards figuring out how to give something back. And I'm not saying this as it's like a tit for tat, it's just being cognizant of that really helps you to sort of manage recognizing, okay, this is something that I can do on my own, I don't need to ask for assistance on this. So that you can free yourself up to take advantage of assistance when you need it the most, when it's going to be the most beneficial for you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:10 At the same time be prepared to offer when the opportunities arise. I. So I mentioned my wife passed away last November, we had been married 40 years, and her caregivers, Josie and Dolores and Janette, who was actually our in is our housekeeping lady who comes in keeps us honest, by keeping the house clean once a week and I work on it the rest of the time. I even bought a Roomba lately. It works pretty well, you know, the cat's not impressed with it. We haven't been able to get the cat to watch the TV commercials where another cat writes a Roomba. But one of the things that that almost immediately happened is that Josie said, you know, let me help you in doing things. And I was reluctant because I didn't want her to feel obligated. But I realized pretty quickly, she wanted to help me get back to continuing to be able to move on. So Josie now works for me. She's here for five days, four or five hours a day. And we do paperwork, and she helps looking for speaking opportunities and all the other things that that I do. Yeah. And Dolores is doing a bunch of other stuff. So we don't see each other quite as often. And Jeanette comes once a week. And one of the things that she said early on after Karen passed was, I'm going to come over on Tuesday nights and bring you dinner. Well, we've modified that slightly. So sometimes she brings in her and sometimes I take her out for dinner because I think that it's good to get out. And frankly, it's good for me to get out a little bit. She's cleaning houses all week. So she's out and then she doesn't have to cook all the time. But I do believe that it's symbiotic is probably the wrong word. But it is a mutually beneficial kind of a relationship with both of them. And actually all three, and it should be that way. It's we do need to connect, and we do need to help each other. So I do like to think that I help some too. Yeah, absolutely.   Rebekah Wanic ** 39:17 You're reminding me of, um, I write a blog about, you know, self improvement, self motivation. I call it self optimization. But I was thinking about, you know, I'm a professor and I know just from conversations with students that a lot of times students, look, look up to me, but when I start doubting myself, and I wrote this article about it, where it's like you have to give yourself credit for being the helper to other people, but also for being in a position to let other people help you because in doing that you're kind of empowering them to to get a lot of the gratification that comes from being connected. And it sounds like these people are we be wonderful individuals. So it sounds it's great that you're able to kind of keep them in your life. And it sounds exactly like you're saying that you're both benefiting from the nature of the relationship, which is huge. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:10 it is it helps a lot. One of the things that I did, we we had a wheelchair accessible van, which we sold back to the company that sold it to us so that they could get it to someone else who could use it once Karen passed, because I didn't need it. But I also didn't want to impose on Josie and Jeanette and Dolores to use their car when I needed to go somewhere. So we did, I bought me another car. And it's smaller than the van. So it does fit in the garage a lot better. And now I can walk all the way around it and things like that, because the minivan took up most of the garage. But again, I felt that that was something that was important to do so that I'm not using up their car. And that works out pretty well. Yeah.   Rebekah Wanic ** 40:55 Do you like your new car? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:59 it was a little hard to find one. Because, well, the reason it was hard was because being a passenger, I want to be able to do what other passengers could do, we had looked at a new 2023 Hyundai Tucson, the problem is the radio was all touchscreen. And for that reason alone went on not doing that. And so we ended up with a 2021 Pre Owned Tucson, but the radio has buttons and I can do with most of it. And all the other parts about the car are much more physical buttons so I can do the things that I need to do, rather than relying on a touchscreen that I'm never going to be able to to navigate and negotiate. All   Rebekah Wanic ** 41:43 right. And most of those touchscreens too, even if they have like an audio interface, you have to touch it to activate the audio interface. Right. So they're not particularly friendly to people that are visually impaired, correct? Well,   Michael Hingson ** 41:57 they're not, they're not at all friendly to people who are blind and, or low vision. And you know, and it seems to me, drivers would probably disagree, but I don't think they're friendly for drivers, you still have to take your eyes off the road to see where to touch on the screen. And there ought to be more of a code word that you can just say like with an echo device or whatever, to activate it rather than using the touchscreen. But even then, it isn't just that it is also that the audio interface doesn't give you the same level of control that you get with a touchscreen. Now, there in reality are ways to have a touchscreen that I could use. iPhones and Android phones on smartphones, which are all touchscreens, do have technology that has been created to allow me to use it. So instead of like clicking a button, just tapping a button and it executes it, when it's in the mode that I have to use. And I suppose to what you have to use, I double tap and that activates it. So they could put all that smarts in that technology and the touchscreens on cars, which would then make it usable for me, but they don't. So it's very unfortunate that they they still continue to exclude a lot, which is very unfortunate, then really continues to say we just don't think that you're as valuable as we are.   Rebekah Wanic ** 43:31 Yeah, I think I had heard you talking about the the touchscreen thing on cars. And I it's it's one of those things I think a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't even come to their mind. Because when when we have the privilege of being sighted for example, then we don't we don't recognize, you know, all of the things that may potentially be an issue. But when it's brought up and like you're saying there's some relatively simple fixes that can be made, but people aren't doing it, it does definitely send a certain kind of message. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 43:58 what it gets back down to is that diversity doesn't tend to be very inclusive, we don't deal with disabilities. And as I've said, and I don't know whether you've heard any of the podcasts where I've said it is I believe everyone has a disability and the disability for most of you is your light dependent. You have to have light in order to function. And as soon as there's a power failure, or something like that you're in a world of hurt unless you can grab a flashlight or a smartphone and activate it and turn the flashlight on. And the fact of the matter is, disability doesn't mean a lack of ability. Disability should really be recognized as a characteristic that manifests itself differently, but still manifests itself in every single person in the world.   Rebekah Wanic ** 44:37 And yes, you're talking Michael, you're reminding me I think the movie is called wait until dark with Audrey Hepburn Audrey Hepburn, right. You know what I'm talking about me? You were just reminding me of that where she's like it shows to me that was really impactful because it showed you know, in a very creative way like yeah, there. We all have different skill sets basically as a function of what we've been born with and given?   Michael Hingson ** 45:00 Well, even though today in our world, we still keep hearing people talk about people who are visually impaired, which is a disgusting, horrible way to describe us.   Rebekah Wanic ** 45:13 I said that I'm sorry, no, no, but no, no, but it   Michael Hingson ** 45:16 comes up all the time, I was just reading another book where it came up. And the reason it is, is because visually, we're not different simply because we're blind, and impaired equates us to eyesight. So blind and low vision within something that deaf people realized a long time ago, that you don't say deaf or hearing impaired is deaf or hard of hearing. And that's, that hasn't progressed that way in the in the blindness world. And I think, in large part because blind people haven't collectively created the same level of community that deaf people have. And so that level of understanding hasn't gotten to blind people to the point where they're willing to take that stand and push back a lot more about the concept of visually impaired. Interesting. Yeah, I   Rebekah Wanic ** 46:07 think there's a difference in the cultivation of community. Do you ever hypothesis on it?   Michael Hingson ** 46:12 Deaf people have worked very hard to, to rally around each other. They know they need to do that they have been very standardized on mostly on signing and some on lip lip reading and so on. But they've just developed a stronger sense of community, overall their death, they're a culture. And you don't see that same level in the blindness world. Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 46:39 that's, it's interesting. So one of the things I would love to hear your opinion on this, one of the things that we sometimes talk about in psychology classes is that people oftentimes report that one of the things that you lose from with the experience of deafness is social connection. Yeah. And that tends to be sort of lost less for people that are blind, because we can still Converse, which is one of the primary sources of social connections. I'm just wondering if maybe the deaf community cultivates community more, because that's something that's so noticeably lost without the extra effort,   Michael Hingson ** 47:18 I think it's an interesting concept, and it could very well be the case. But for whatever reason they've done it. And I, I've been around a number of deaf people, and I've actually talked to them about this discussion of hearing impaired or hard of hearing. And they're very adamant that hard of hearing is much more appropriate than because they don't want to be compared to a person who can hear in terms of how much you can hear or you're impaired in terms of hearing. And it's, it makes a lot of sense. words do matter. And we need to recognize that a lot more than we do.   Rebekah Wanic ** 47:51 Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I apologize. Well, no, don't   Michael Hingson ** 47:54 it's fine. You know, I understand. But But yeah, that's something to grow on. So when we need to get more people to understand it. Tell me about making choices. So since we're talking about about this, and we're making a choice to, to do that, and I appreciate it. But you know, in our world today, so many people blame people for so much stuff, it seems to me and they'll make a choice, and then they blame somebody else when it doesn't go the way they saw it. How do we deal with that? Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 48:25 I think that's a great thing to kind of talk about. So I am a firm believer, and I talk about this with my clients a lot that if you make a choice, even if the outcome is not what you wanted, you own that choice, because that's the most empowering way for you to move forward. blaming other people puts you in a position where you're outsourcing control. If I say I didn't get what I wanted, because the world is against me, this person doesn't like me, whatever external reason, then there's really not much that you can do about it. But if you recognize that, first of all, you're not always going to get what you want. Sometimes the choices that we make don't lead to the outcomes that we desire, recognizing that is the first important step. But then above and beyond that, if you if you own the consequences of your actions, you're much more motivated to change so that you don't get the same consequences the next time around. If we don't take ownership of the consequences of our choices, then we're not putting ourselves in a position to learn right, basic psychology tells us that the consequence will alter the action. If the consequence is not something that you desire to have happen again, then you're less likely to engage in that same behavior. But when we remove the consequences when we tell people that they're not responsible for the outcomes of the choices that they make, we're actually hampering them in their ability to make adjustments that will help them move forward in a more positive direction to get more of the things that they want.   Michael Hingson ** 49:51 We also focus so much on trying to control everything in our world and everything around us when in reality, we don't have control over everything. We don't learn to focus on things that we do have control over. We worry about everything else. It drives people crazy, I'm sure.   Rebekah Wanic ** 50:06 Yeah, that is absolutely true. So a lot of what we can work on just in terms of helping ourselves to be more functional, less worrying, you know, less angry all the time when things don't work out is to recognize the sphere of control that you have. And I've written about this, too, that this idea of circle of control is not unique to me, other people have originated like Dale Carnegie talks about your social control. But realistically, what you want to do is thinking about within every domain, what are the things that I can control? And what are the things that I can't, and you have to work to control the things you can to get more of what you value. And at minimum, what you can control is, where you are, and how you emotionally respond. So it's not the case that people make you feel happy or sad, or whatever events can have a tendency to push you in one direction or another. But you ultimately have control over how you're choosing to respond. This is why I think mindset is so important. And I work with clients to work on mindset adjustments, because your mindset is key to controlling your emotional reaction. When I have something negative happened to me, I'm perfectly within my right to feel bad about it. But if I can adjust my mindset, so I can see what I have control over. And I'm a big fan of humor, I always try to see what's funny in a situation. Because the minute you can laugh at it, you take a step back, you're less, you're less directly connected, and it puts you in a new position to see all of the actions that you can take to help yourself move forward in a more positive direction.   Michael Hingson ** 51:42 I absolutely agree. And I think it's it's very important that we understand that, you know, it's all about making choices, we can choose to deal with things or not, we had no control over I don't think the World Trade Center incident happening. I'm not convinced we would have figured it out, even if all the government agencies really did talk to each other, which they certainly seem to not know how to do. But the bottom line is that it happened. And that is something that we certainly didn't have control over. I didn't have control over it happening. But I do have control over how I deal with it. And I think that's the important part about it.   Rebekah Wanic ** 52:20 Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. I mean, even you know, when I mentioned earlier, I said I'm one of those people that if things are gonna go wrong, they're gonna go really wrong. But now it's like, when I say it, I'm not saying it because I am in a woe is me mindset, or I feel like, you know, the world is treating me poorly. It also is something I always tell people, I'm like, you know, I have some really great stories because of the stuff that I've gone through. And because I like to find the humor in them, like when I retell the story, I will, like accentuate the parts of it that are humorous. And that helps me get get over it as well. So the the thing that you have maximum control over is how you respond to every situation. And the thing that makes you powerful is when you own the outcome of the choices you made. And you own your reactions in situations where you don't have a lot of control.   Michael Hingson ** 53:08 When things happen where I know, in my case, something occurred and it wasn't funny at the time. But I always work to go back and think about it and like you I love to find humor in it and and recognize what a dingdong, I got lost or this happened that happened? And what do I learn from it? And that's the real adventure. What do I learn from and how do I move forward?   Rebekah Wanic ** 53:31 Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I agree with you, I think in the moment to tell to tell everybody, when bad things are happening, like find, find the humor in it, that's not appropriate. It takes a little bit of time and distance. But the best way to help to make sure that things don't linger and continue to be problems for you, like you're saying is to reflect on it. Think about the lesson and think about what's funny about it moving forward for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 53:55 Yeah, I think, you know, it all gets back to preparation. And I know, today that I function well in the time of the World Trade Center, because I prepared I learned what to do. And although I didn't really think about it, or if I understood it, I didn't know how to verbalize it at the time. But I've since learned, I developed a mindset that said, Something's happening. You can deal with it because you know what to do. And yeah, the building could have collapsed all around us. And in that case, wouldn't have to worry about it actually. But never nevertheless. I knew what to do. And that mindset that preparation created that mindset and that mindset and learning to control fear helped a lot.   Rebekah Wanic ** 54:40 Yeah, absolutely. I was, you know, reading more about you sharing about the story. And I think that that's so true. And like you were just saying it's like you control what you can you didn't have control over what ultimately was going to happen to the building or when but given that you can control something you have a choice again, you have a choice to choose to do something or to choose To do nothing, and most of the time, the choice to choose to do something is going to help you get closer to what you want. But we don't ultimately have control over how things are going to turn out. But I always think, at the end of the day, do I want to look back and say that I gave up on my opportunities? Or do I want to look back and say, I tried as hard as I could. And some things just didn't work out. For me. That's the option I would rather sit with at the end of the day. And   Michael Hingson ** 55:23 I don't know intellectually, whether my parents understood it, but they worked really hard to allow me to explore and do things. And as a result, as I say, they took risks. And they allowed me to, by societal standards, take risks, that would not be risk for anybody who could see, but they, they let me learn things. And they, they allowed me to explore. And I find it really interesting. I know any number of blind people, but any number of parents today that just shelter their kids, and they don't let them really explore, they don't learn how to make choices. And they'll never if they don't get that opportunity, learn how to create a mindset that allows them to be more unstoppable and less fearful.   Rebekah Wanic ** 56:07 Yeah, Michael, that's absolutely correct. I mean, we're seeing the consequences of this culture of safety is a manifesting itself in all of this teen anxiety. Because if if parents, of course, parents want to protect their kids, but there has to be a balance of letting them go out and do things, make choices, not have parents around all the time to tell them what they should and should not be doing. That's how you you learn. That's how you develop, that's how you grow your resilience. Also, if you're not making choices, you don't have consequences of those choices, because you didn't make them you can't learn and you can't grow from that. So of course, there needs to be a balance, but we're seeing lots of negative consequences from the inability to allow children to take risks. And part of that is just not letting kids play by themselves. I hear so many stories from my friends who are parents that like, when I was a kid, if there was a birthday party, your parent was like so weak, they would drop you off at the party and run away and do stuff on their own. Now, parents hang out collectively at the birthday party where the kids are, that is insane. To me, it's like give them some space to just be on their own and do what they need to do. I   Michael Hingson ** 57:17 understand that we live in a society where there are a number of crazy people who take advantage of kids and so on. So I'm all in favor of having some way to observe. And I don't know necessarily what that is, but I can appreciate the concern. But you've got to let kids play you got to let kids explore you got to let kids be kids. That doesn't mean and I'm sure with me, for example, my parents probably monitored a lot of what I did, from a distance. Yeah, exactly.   Rebekah Wanic ** 57:49 But I mean, in my birthday party scenario, there are adults there, there are people to monitor, you, as the parent don't need to be the one monitoring all the time, you know, like, you wouldn't just send, you know, a group of eight year olds to a house by themselves. But if there's a responsible adult there, you could safely assume that they're probably going to be okay. You know, I mean, there's all that really startling data about like, kids are not having sex, kids are not driving, kids are not dating. They're not doing any of the normal things that kids are supposed to be doing as they move into adulthood, in large part because of all of this pressure of safety as them that they've grown up in so that they're not being put in a position to sort of move effectively, Trent and take that transition from childhood to adulthood in any kind of effective way.   Michael Hingson ** 58:33 Recently, I read a New York Tim

Gustavo Rodriguez is all the episode title says. His family moved to La Puente California from Guatemala when he was just five years of age. As he tells me, his family wanted a better life especially for children. Gus says he had a normal childhood and eventually enrolled at the University of California at Riverside. He graduated with a business degree in 2019 and immediately went to work. Today he serves as a team leader and feels he is well suited for the job. While he is young and has lots of experience years ahead of him, our conversation shows that he has knowledge that does go beyond his years. He credits this to the fact that he spent and still spends much time observing people and activities around him. He believes this comes in large part from his parents influence. Gus and I talk a great deal about his leadership style and how he successfully serves as a team leader. He rightly points out that one of the most important aspects of what he does is to, as he puts it, “shut up and listen” to his team. He takes a personal and supporting interest in everyone on his team. He has been a leader of a team containing people younger than him up to people who he says could be his grandparents. Listening is one of the things that helps him relate to everyone. I think Gus Rodriguez has good advice and observations for us all. I hope you agree as you listen to our conversation. About the Guest: Gus grew up in La Puente CA after his family moved here from Guatemala. Gus enjoys spending time with his dog Shadow whenever he is not at the gym or enjoying a drink with friends. Gus graduated from UCR in 2019 where he was also the president for LBSA ( Latino Business Student Association) for 2 years. His 4 year career so far has been spent in the roles of Operation supervisor, Sort manager, Inventory control manager and 2 Operation manager roles. Throughout his career and life, Gus continues to apply the principles of taking care of his people and trying to make their lives better. In all his roles Gus has developed his team as he understands that it is not about him but rather it is all about the team. Gus contributes his success and his own development in each of his roles to the team that trusts him to lead them and get them where they need to be as well. A big difference in Gus as a leader than most leaders today is that he finds ways to ensure that his team doesn't feel like a number to him but rather a group of individuals making an impact bigger than themselves. The trust that he creates with his team starts with ensuring they are open about their mental health to him. Gus knows what it's like to not be ok mentally but still have to work and carry on with his life. Gus is an advocate for mental health as he knows everyone goes through battles they may not speak of. Throughout college and his career he puts himself out there to let others also find their voice and feel more comfortable with not being ok. His goal is to continue to provide that comfortable environment for those around him so that they can also feel supported and be ready to take on whatever else life has for them. Ways to connect with Gus: Grodr025@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustavo-e-rodriguez-96ab5010a/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Welcome to unstoppable mindset. Thanks for being here and listening to us. Today we get to interview and chat with well I shouldn't say interview because I really feel these are conversations but we get to talk with Gustavo or Gus Rodriguez. And Gus has a has a really interesting this I think story to tell. He is not too far out of college. And I especially like the fact that he lives about 45 minutes to an hour south of me down the hill, as we say here in California and Riverside. And we'll we'll get into more of his story and all that sort of stuff later. But Gus, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Gus Rodriguez ** 02:05 Thank you so much for having me.   Michael Hingson ** 02:09 So here we are. November 1 is when we're recording this. Did you go out trick or treating last night Gus?   Gus Rodriguez ** 02:15 Actually not just stay Oh, Ma. That's not some candy. And then Scotch just enjoyed a drink. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 02:21 I stayed home too. I, we, there's a person who works with me, Josie and her family came over and trick or treated in our area, but one of the kids doesn't really like to go out. So he and I stayed and watched movies and a popcorn and candy and stuff like that. So we had a good time. Well, yeah, so anyway, I'm really glad you're here. So I know I'm looking at your bio. It said that you grew up in La Fuente. After coming here from Guatemala, when did you move here? How old were you when you moved from Guatemala? Oh, I   Gus Rodriguez ** 02:58 want to say I was about five years old when I say you have   Michael Hingson ** 03:01 a little bit of a memory of Guatemala. Yeah,   Gus Rodriguez ** 03:04 a little vague, but I gotta get him out.   Michael Hingson ** 03:06 So what what brought you to the US what brought the family here as opposed to staying down there?   Gus Rodriguez ** 03:13 Oh, just like many other parents, they just wanted a better education or thing for their kids. So you know, started off going to school. Last let elementary and middle school and then just kind of went from there.   Michael Hingson ** 03:25 Have you been back at all to visit Guatemala since moving up here?   Gus Rodriguez ** 03:30 No, not yet. I plan to one day. Take a little vacation over there. But for now, since you're in California.   Michael Hingson ** 03:37 Yeah. Well, you have some pretty good weather. You probably have warmer weather than we do up here in Victorville.   Gus Rodriguez ** 03:44 Right now it's about like the low 80s. I prefer it during the summer. So one thing I don't like about Riverside is the heat.   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 Well, we get that in the summer, too. We right now at 64 outside so yeah, definitely a little colder here. And then then down the hill, as they say, but we are on the high desert as it's called. So we are we're a little bit colder. Well, so tell me about growing up what it was like and that sort of stuff.   Gus Rodriguez ** 04:16 I mean, growing up just like many other other kids in there, your loved one thing you know, you're very heavy Latino culture. My parents did a good job of even though they didn't end up together, raising me my sister. So growing up was just kind of seen mature conversations early on and just kind of seeing where I fit in the world so to speak. I always tell people that. I believe I'm a I'm an old soul, my young body just because I've seen a lot of mature conversations and how to do a lot of mature things at early age. Usually because of finances or just seeing some similar things that my friends went through as well.   Michael Hingson ** 05:00 So it's a little bit tough from a financial standpoint. A lot of you're growing up. Uh huh. Yeah, just kind of what kind of conversations or what kind of things did you have to deal with?   Gus Rodriguez ** 05:13 Oh, go first back to my family and my parents at one point, you know, there are definitely issues such as like eviction possibilities and things like that. So kind of seeing that and, like, come upon it. But finally, on my first job, truly valuing the most simple dollar, the value of money, so to speak, understanding the work, it is so nice to get that. And that's kind of helped shaped a lot of even back in high school, my mindset of, you know, I don't want to go to college, where am I going to get this money from? So I definitely didn't sure I had good grades. I was involved heavily with extracurriculars, sports, anything I could do, organization on campus, that way I could stand out more, and then possibly get more scholarships, so I could go to college. And you know, thankfully, that's exactly how it worked out. Would you go to college? Oh, newly about three minutes more liberal now, at UC Riverside, UC   Michael Hingson ** 06:11 Riverside, my wife did her undergraduate work at UC Riverside a long time ago. So I'm sorry, I fell Highlander. Yeah. Yep. She was very involved back in the well, early 1970s and late 1960s in accessibility, and helped bring a lot of wheelchair access to the University of California at Riverside and had some, some challenges. And during the International Year of the disabled, she was involved from a local chapter standpoint. So she, she's very familiar with Riverside, I went to UC Irvine. So I was a little bit further down the road from you.   Gus Rodriguez ** 06:55 I guess. That's that.   Michael Hingson ** 06:59 Yeah. So when you went to UCR, what did you major in? Or what did you decide to major in?   Gus Rodriguez ** 07:06 Oh, so I was like, most people my age, I'm like, I don't know what I want to do exactly yet. But let's play it safe. I was like, I'm gonna go into business. I started his administration, just because businesses everywhere. So did that. And then the concentration was general management, just because I didn't want to limit myself to just marketing to just supply chain or finance, I wanted to be able to dip my feet to everything, so to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 07:35 So you just didn't want to be a specialist such pretty   Gus Rodriguez ** 07:38 much I like to be in a spot where I have options.   Michael Hingson ** 07:43 So how did that work out?   Gus Rodriguez ** 07:46 So far, so good, believe it or not, throughout the few jobs, I worked in college, and also, again, the classes I took, I began to realize more of what I wanted to do, so to speak, where, when a when environment I want to be in and a lot of that came from when it comes to customer service, you know, I my patient is good even it's like my direct team, but my patients only go so far. So I remember doing like for example, I've been working in supply chain or logistics after college, and all my teams really don't want to have to deal with for the most part. And when I say that, it's like I only got to worry about developing them, coaching them up making sure they're happy. I don't want to worry about anybody else. So those those jobs really my career and like I said those classes helped me realize that this is exactly more my cup of tea so to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 08:38 So you when did you graduate? I think what 2019 Was it? Yes, sir. Uh huh. So what did you do when you graduated? Thank   Gus Rodriguez ** 08:49 God I had a job lined up to be an operation supervisor for DHL supply chain pretty much like a week off after I graduated and then just straight into work.   Michael Hingson ** 08:59 So DHL the big shipping organization   Gus Rodriguez ** 09:04 Yes, it's one DHL supply chain is a third party they deal with a lot of customers. products so to speak. So a lot of people confuse DHL. DHL Express that's different   Michael Hingson ** 09:17 organization. Okay. Yeah,   Gus Rodriguez ** 09:19 they're not related. They're related to just different branches,   Michael Hingson ** 09:23 different Yeah, different branches, but it's all the same sort of large company. So what does it mean DHL supply chain and what you do and what you did.   Gus Rodriguez ** 09:32 So DHL, though, it was, I believe is an acronym for the founding brothers. I can't remember the names. I'm being honest. But I know it was. That's where the DHL came from. And then what I did as an operation supervisor was basically you have a team of between 20 Plus team members, getting them to help us get the work done, whether it's receiving, picking, putting away product or loading the product. in an efficient and safe manner. So we worked in a warehouse and we do that the customer Campbell's. So we had to deal with a lot of what Campbell Soup, any smaller companies that they bought like, V eight, Prego sauce and many more.   Michael Hingson ** 10:17 So as a as a supervisor in the process, so what did you do? And is it? Is it still what you do? What did what did you do? And do you do?   Gus Rodriguez ** 10:28 So my job is to make sure, well, the way I explained my job, because I didn't want to just follow like the standard stuff that I was who I should do, I like to go above and beyond. So my job was first and foremost, at the team was safe, whatever they did, because we worked with heavy, you know, 5000 pieces of equipment, making sure that they're happy. And if not happy, at least content, because as much as I want to make sure everyone's happy. I know, you can't make everybody happy. But they won't get along, they respect each other. I used to look at our performance metrics, whether it was individually by team member or as a team as a whole, and find ways to coach up team members, take away barriers, make sure they need the proper training, they got it, be able to explain the business, you know, top to bottom, so that we were possibly losing money. And at the same time, taking the feedback of team members like Hey, I think this process is better, and doing the deep dive to continuously improve processes.   Michael Hingson ** 11:26 So clearly, teamwork is a very important concept to you.   Gus Rodriguez ** 11:29 Yes, yeah, without teamwork, a lot of my success from Hobby Lobby here.   Michael Hingson ** 11:35 So what do you do specifically to create a team or build the team and keep the team kind of not only focused from a business standpoint, but also motivated to continue to do their work? Well, first   Gus Rodriguez ** 11:51 and foremost, at least with me, it starts with getting to know all my team members. Again, the operations manager was my first role right out of college. Since then I've done Inventory Control Manager, Operations Manager, multiple settings, store manager, area manager. And all those rules are fairly similar in the sense of again, making sure there's camaraderie. Big thing for me is as I get to know, team members, it's not just like a checkmark, like, okay, you know, I talk to you, that's it. It's like getting to know, little little things about themselves, whatever they feel comfortable sharing, what drives them, what motivates them, what they don't want to do long term short term, in the most simple thing of how to like to be recognized. And as team members prefer, like a public setting, private setting, just so that way, they're comfortable. And then as I follow up with many possible coaching conversations, or recognizing for achievements, you know, having those little plugins where I want every conversation to feel like they think their number, I want them to feel like they're valued their actual people. The other day, I know, they probably have 1000 plus things going on in life, things could be going wrong, and they still find a way to get together and come up with him. So   Michael Hingson ** 13:02 how do you get people to really value opening up and then coalescing, because teamwork is really hard? You know, one of the things that we talked about, at various times, and I talked about on the podcast is the whole concept of trust. And in our world today, we find so many people not overly open to trust, and they're not trusting, but the biggest thing is they're not open to trust. How do you deal with that and get people to to change? Because obviously, if you're going to have a good team, the members have to trust?   13:44 Oh, well, a lot of it comes from development conversations where even when I had a team of 150 plus team members, again, I took the time to know every single one. And with those conversations, moreover, again, like it could be a simple follow up, it's like very next morning, instead of you know, saying, hey, you know, can you help me do this? They'll say good morning. I was last night. I know, you said you went to do so and so. And then from there. Other follow up conversation that goes back to again, the development, they're doing all the hard work realistically, in the sense of all the heavy lifting. The least I could do is like, Okay, this guy wants to be a lead supervisor, he was an inventory. I find ways to help develop them, set them up. So that way, they see that I do care, because though at the end of the day, you're part of my team. I care about you, I care for you to an extent so that we understand that I'm here to help you. It's not just oh, you know, there's always more people. There's always going to be report to me or if you're part of my team, I want you to know that I haven't back and then that goes back down to, again, kind of how you mentioned. Sometimes people are less willing to be trust, trusted or don't want to share as much and I picked up on body language over the years. That's a big thing for me. You know, someone could tell me one thing but their body says another I'm just being straight up with them as respectful as I can, of course saying, hey, like, I know you're saying this, but I can tell like you're not comfortable. Tell me what, you can pull out this conversation later. Or at least try this out. What can we hear and if you really don't like it's not for you, we can stop, but at least try it out. And then just overtime to begin to see like, I'm actually there to help or like, interesting to me. The here's the positive outcome that came out of it. So that way, it's not just me saying things to tickle the ears. It's also like, you know, I'm following up, I'm being consistent. If you need something, hey, can you look into this for me? Sure. Because I have so many people asking that I write things down from them. And the other day, I looked at my sticky notes, am I right? Did I do this? Do that? Let me get back to so and so. So that way, they see that they're doing all this? All these things? For me? The least I could do is have this follow up and just be as consistent as I can. Yeah. How did you   Michael Hingson ** 15:51 learn all that? I mean, I would say you've not been in the workforce very long. And that's okay. But the bottom line is that you clearly have learned a lot as you have been in the workforce. And probably I would think some of that has come from earlier kinds of things as well. How did you how did you pick up all those concepts and start to put them to use? Oh, that's   Gus Rodriguez ** 16:15 a mixture of things. So even going back to, there was a summer I spent with my dad when I was much younger, and he was a supervisor. And I would just pick up on things that you that, you know, he would tell me like, you know, here's what made me successful, or even if he didn't say, I could visually see things again, like the follow ups, checking in with his people, even though it's like, Hey, can you get this done? You know, while on the way he will say hey, by the way, you know how the kids know things like that, that starts to pick up. And even when I used to be a picker, working as a, as a temporary team member in a warehouse when I was in college, talking to fellow team members, you know, what they liked or disliked about their supervisors managers even experienced it firsthand where I had a supervisor that didn't even say good morning, they like, remember my name is point say, Hey, can you do this? And lo things about where I would pick them up? Like, you know what, if I'm ever in that position, that's something I definitely want to do. Or in the most simple thing of when I was back in college, you know, BSA business organization, and I was the president, little things again, where I would assign my fellow board members tasks, but I would follow up, because I want them to feel supported, I wouldn't give someone a task, if I didn't feel confident that I could do it myself or find the resource to get it done. So little things like that over time, and then obviously been in the workforce situations are very similar, but that little details, that little detail that makes a different kind of key mental notes. So that way, it happens again, it's like a trigger and okay, and react to that, so to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 17:51 So when you've got a team member who's maybe not necessarily contributing, like they should, or maybe that you think should be contributing, and they're not, what do you do about that? Oh,   Gus Rodriguez ** 18:01 well, first and foremost, it starts with simple conversation of what's going on. But at the same time I, I bounced that conversation with, how can I help you, because I like to give the benefit of the doubt, nine times out of 10, where I believe people don't wake up and say, I'm gonna start today work, or I'm not gonna do anything in the benefit of a doubt, like they come in, Hey, I see that you're not being as productive. What barriers are you facing? What can I do to help? Is everything okay? And no, things like that. We're just gonna have that simple conversation. And sometimes they brush it off at first, like, oh, you know, fine, everything's good. Now, I'll pick it up. Later, I'll tell you what, follow up later, just to make sure that you do look at the follow up happens, they're either about the same performance or just a slightly better, again, just that follow up where I've had team members open up in the past that, hey, I got this actually going on in my life, you know, divorce issues, the kids, etc. And just taking the time to get on time, listen, because, as I mentioned before, so much goes on in everyone's lives that people often forget that, you know, other people are going through things too. And I think that's also what contributes to my success early on is recognizing that at the end of day, yes, there's a job to do. But I'm working with people. I'm leaving people hanging, understand that I need to have empathy and sympathy at the same time. So even if I don't have kids at the moment, but if someone tells me that they should have kids, or, again, the list goes on, if I haven't experienced that listing, then I'm saying, Hey, I haven't gone through that. I appreciate you open up and tell me about that. But I think these suits my hope, or I'll tell you what, I'm gonna follow up later. I want to make sure that I'm doing everything in my hands or my power to make sure you're heard that you're valued. And then again, those things usually help pick it up. Or sometimes they're not as receptive and they still you know, they're very closed off with those. I'm gonna start from my open door policy. But I still fall to the part of my job where I go to retraining work instructions, etc, making sure that do an observation so that way they know even if they don't want to open up or they don't want to see what's going on, I'm still there to follow through the process to ensure that at least everything by the standard is being done correctly.   Michael Hingson ** 20:18 Yeah. Well, and that's, that's kind of important. It's a matter of understanding all the way around. And as the leader, and I think there is a big difference between being a leader and being a boss. So that's why I put it that way. But as the leader, you are the person who is needing to coalesce the team? Well, how would you define the difference between say, a leader and a boss, a   Gus Rodriguez ** 20:45 boss takes credit points, the fingers just tells people what to do and gets mad when results are out there. A leader takes the time to develop this people, listen to his people, lead by example, get his hands dirty, making sure that everyone understands and respects and as well as just overall making sure that when the results are not their leaders, reflecting on what he could have done better to not just be with one person specifically MSW. Okay, what could I have done to help that scenario?   Michael Hingson ** 21:15 Yeah, one of the things that I've always felt when I've been tasked with leading teams is I say to my colleagues on the team, I'm not here to boss you around your knee, the assumption is, you know what you're doing. On the other hand, my job is to add value to what you do. So we need to figure out with each individual, how do I add value to you. And I think that's really important. Because if you're able to, to enhance and add value, you're gonna make everyone obviously more successful, which makes you successful as well. But it's about adding value. And I think that's really pretty important to really be able to make that happen. So, you, you, you learn to somewhat connect fairly early on in life, didn't you were doing that by being a good observer. And I think that's probably the best way to describe it, you observe, and all the things that you did, and you chose to put it into practice, didn't you? Which is always a really helpful thing. So what's the really hard part for you in terms of connecting with others?   Gus Rodriguez ** 22:33 I think the hard part is, again, as a leader, as a person, I believe people should know, their leadership style, and not just leadership style, but even just what they're like, you know, when I just like, What do I like in terms of my crowd of people. So I, for example, I tell people all the time, I'm an omni vert extrovert introvert, I love my longtime I, you know, my small crowd of friends that I like to spend time with, I really honestly like to spend time with people that I enjoy with, you know, I don't have time for wasting, wasting time, so to speak. So understanding that, and then, when I come across a brand new team member or situation where it's the most to me, like the total opposite of me, well, this person is the opposite of me, and drains my social battery very quickly. And the hard part is, you know, maybe it's a long day for everyone, maybe mentally, I'm just right there, like my borderline. So just trying to bring together you know, to have the interaction so that way, even when those long and tough days, I get being consistent as possible with having a simple interaction. What do you think about it might not be that simple. But again, my interactions taking place. And then, at the end of the day, all my team members can say, even if they don't like my leadership style, or they're like me, specifically, they respected because again, consistency was there. And they see that I was feeling terribly across the board, I tried to help every across the board. And the other thing, too, is not just with necessarily that personality, so to speak. But certain key factors, of course, like when I first started, it was a little harder to connect with the older crowd, so to speak, because I was fresh out of college. Some of my team members could have been my parents could have been my grandparents. And it comes down to finding that in that respect, without demanding it. So I think that's the issue that a lot of younger leaders or new leaders face is they demand respect, but they have shown little too early. So again, taking the time to find common common things to talk about. And even though there's nothing finding ways to still see what they like, and go on from there. Because I guarantee at least there's one thing that can always be discussed that you have that little small connection with that other team member and then you can you get to build that rapport with them. So eventually, they respect you, but it wasn't enforced. It was also very transparent across the board.   Michael Hingson ** 24:59 Yeah, bye bosses demand respect rather than commanding respect by what they do, which is I think, again, that's another maybe way to distinguish between the two do you have? You talked about two things I'm gonna ask you about both of those. You talked about it with some people, it's easy to train your social battery. And I can appreciate that. How do you deal with that? What do you do?   Gus Rodriguez ** 25:20 Oh, man, work setting, private setting, they're all very different. But we're talking about the work setting it when it comes down to before and after, as I call it, I had just talked with a fella, one of my friends the other day, too, when you're a leader of people, or even in my other roles, leader of leaders, you need time to walk away from the business not talking about like a whole day necessarily, but you know, like 510 15 minutes, whatever it may be to yourself, recharge, do something you enjoy, listen to a song, maybe lunch, maybe get a quick snack, just closed a laptop, step away, and being able to find that little piece in the middle of the day. So being able to do that before and after, especially most when you know, you go into one more that's going to drain you really quickly, being able to recharge because it's not fair, or the way I see it. It's not fair to both parties. It's not fair to myself, that I'm not taking care of myself. But it's also not fair to my other team members, my other people that report to me if I'm not in the best, or in one of the best conditions to take care of them, if that makes sense.   Michael Hingson ** 26:26 Yeah, well, and I think that does make a lot of sense. It's all about the fact that you have to be on your game. And no matter what others might say, it's your own internal pressure that requires you to be on your game as much as anything. So the very fact that you address that issue and recognize that issue is pretty important to be able to go into situations that can be very draining, you do prepare, and it's all about preparation, which makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and the other question that comes to mind is you mentioned that you've had situations where you as a young person, almost out of college, and were, were tasked with leading teams that had people who were significantly older, as you said, it could be your parents or your grandparents. Do you have a story of how you turned one of those around and made it work?   Gus Rodriguez ** 27:26 Oh, yes, I do, actually. So even going into like previous things we're discussing, a lot of it comes from, which I'm sure we're discussing today is the mental health, mental health portion. So one way that I was able to turn around was, again, very connectivity, and interacting with all my team members on a one on one basis, getting to know them. But this specific respect, I won't say the name, but I don't   Michael Hingson ** 27:46 know what I remember, I don't need that domain names.   Gus Rodriguez ** 27:51 Having conversation with him. And everyone was always telling me like prior to like, you know, he's always been a hot, he's always been kind of to himself. And I'm just like, to take that time to see why he's like that. So as I was conversations, besides the simple introduction, you know, Hello, my name is Simon. So I'd be your new supervisor, etc, etc. Just finding down and just being as blunt but as respectful as I, because I like it's like a bad way to get out of the way. And just straight up, say, Hey, man, I noticed that you literally, you're in unpleasant mode. And the reason why I'm following up is to make sure that you're okay. If you're comfortable sharing what's going on with you can be a big mental health advocate, it can be the most simple thing that maybe is recent, or some has been around for a while. Here, you're talking about it, you're not inclined to but just know you have the option in case someone has ever offered that to you. And you don't want talk to me, I can provide resources, I can point you in HR, that they can spread resources that maybe they connect to you as well, that will make you feel more comfortable. And it was like a little pause. And he he said some of the you're the first one to actually ask me anything around that realm. And who knows how long. So what what in my office at the time, and you know, told me, everything was going on with him. We spent I guess, almost 3540 minutes. And the whole time, I was actively listening, making mental notes. And to make sure that he was heard. And we were done. I thanked him and said I appreciate that you were comfortable and open up to explain everything going on with you and why you were in an unpleasant mood or why he was been that way. And he ticked him off spec me for you to actually listen. And I would always have my follow ups with him as well. Okay, you know, just one follow up. I was going with this. Some days are good. Some days not so good. But I'm teaching other people my my better workers. If I needed something, the most simple thing I could be like, Hey, can you get this done? When you're done? I'll follow up with us. We'll make sure that everything back home is still doing okay. You said yes sir. Whatever you need You know, as attention will take care of it. And Tuesday No, I don't talk to him anymore because I'm no longer at that facility. But I hope he's doing well. Tom about   Michael Hingson ** 30:08 communications, isn't it? Nine   Gus Rodriguez ** 30:11 times out said, yeah, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 30:13 people just don't work at communicating. And and it's scary in our world in general today, we, we have gotten to a point where it is so very hard to have any kind of conversations with people, people just don't want to converse. And I realized that there are subjects that can be sensitive, you know, like politics is a perfect example, that we have gotten to the point where no one can have discussions about it. My opinion is right, yours is wrong. And that's all there is to it. And we, we don't, we don't communicate, we have lost the art of conversation.   Gus Rodriguez ** 30:49 I agree. How do we fix that? Oh, man, I can't speak for everybody like, but for me, like me and my friends. Because I have some friends that have different, like, for example, political views, religious views. I don't like to put down anybody and say, like, You're wrong, I'm right. To me, it's just like, look, it's your opinion, it's valid, because it's yours. As long as it's not bring anybody down, by all means, you know, listen to it. I might, I won't debate unnecessarily, as long as you don't come from mine either. Or, like if you actually listen and understand why I have my point of view, and I will do my best to do for yours as well.   Michael Hingson ** 31:29 And that's really the issue, it shouldn't be debated should be discussed if you're going to do it. And that's that's the big problem that people think you have to debate and my ways the right way and your way isn't the right way. And we don't get anywhere when we do that. The reality is that when we really sit down and listen, and have meaningful discussions, we may or may not change someone else's opinion. But at least we hopefully communicate to the point where they at least have some respect for someone else's opinion other than their own. Which is, of course, the big problem. All too often, that just doesn't really go that way.   Gus Rodriguez ** 32:17 So, unfortunately, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 32:19 So you, you clearly look out for others, who are what helped you really get into that mindset. And I think that's a good way of expressing it. That it is a mindset that you look out for others and you help others.   Gus Rodriguez ** 32:31 Oh, first of all, most of my parents, like, I'll start with my dad, again, going back to spending that summer with him. Just you know, he took care of his people, they need something he was basically like, Okay, I'll get there as soon as I can. And he would. And then I would just again, observing how, how easily they followed him, because he was their boss. But because of those little things that I could tell his team, I was actually happy to be working for him. Another one is my mother. Growing up with a lot of things we went through, I could tell that some days, my mom would just appreciate somebody besides like a myself heard her out, things that she was going through. And that made me again, put myself in the shoes of, you know, my rabbits team and report to me, if their mothers fathers, whatever the case may be, again, they're going through real life situations. And again, just hearing our providing an ear and possible solutions would go such a long way. But then there was also this went back to when I was a banker as a temp. Finishing my last year of college before I became a supervisor, I started off again, brand new, didn't know anybody. No one really talked to me besides people that worked near me. Supervisor named a good morning just like get to work. But there was this one guy and to get under respect, I won't say his name. But he older gentleman, he was the only one that actually went out of his way to Good Morning. How are you doing? I see you're new here. Give me any help, please let me know. I'll be over here. And it wasn't just that one time again. He continued to follow up. He didn't have to do this. But the fact that you did, it made me feel really good that knowing that you know, somebody noticed, I'm not just getting like another number, just another nobody. And even the days that I missed because you know at classes or things wildlife. The next thing I did show up to work, he's a MC yesterday. Again, the fact that somebody notices, those are the things that really stuck with me and it made me realize like he's not even like the supervisor or the boss, but that's something that would want from my supervisor, boss. So those are things I started to pick up on and he's no longer with us at rest in peace. But the fact that he took the time is what I'm trying to say and that's something that whether it was supervisor me is a one of my many manager roles with game that it's my team members. It's the supervisor reportedly just taking the time to pull him to the side and say, Hey, work aside all all this BS that we can deal with to the side, what's going on? Anything? How's your mental health? And those are the things that just this little simple check in was, that went a long way not just myself, but went a long way for other people that came along for the ride.   Michael Hingson ** 35:25 So you did a lot of work in Business and Business Administration so on, do you think that college helped really prepare you for the kinds of things you're doing now, when you're talking about teamwork and all those sorts of things? And not the theory behind what you do? But real preparation and building teams? And, and the kinds of things that we've been talking about for gosh, now over a half hour? did? Did college help really prepare you for that? Or did that really come from other kinds of environmental issues?   Gus Rodriguez ** 35:58 It's a mixture, you know, I'm a big fan of the education system if Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But at the same time, I think it comes down to obviously, whatever your your major your field is, like, for example, you've been in business is not just going to classes, because that's the textbook only teach you so much, right? The textbook might be outdated with math might be there, you're doing finance, that's pretty much gonna always be the same, right. But like, in my case, when I'm dealing with when I'm dealing, but I'm working with people, my people were really helped bring that together was join organizations in college where you have to work together, where you become like an officer, like, for example, again, Latino Business Student Association, there'll be a say, I started as a general member, my freshman year, and throughout the years made my way to be the president, being in that role was so crucial for my leadership development early on, because, again, I was able to apply, as you mentioned, observe and apply previous experiences that I already had, and seeing them how they play out with my peers, so to speak. So people move closer to my age, and then being able to get into the workforce and apply it but then adjust or tweak little portions because now it's no longer people. My age now, it's very different. It's more diverse. It's very different work that has to get done, so to speak. But still, again, the education system that your job when it came down to, since I was general management, I had my head and everything had given me insight to it. But then also getting involved with organizations on campus was the cherry on top, so to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 37:38 If you could change something in the whole education system, and when what you learned or what you did learn, what would you change? From a college standpoint, a curriculum standpoint,   Gus Rodriguez ** 37:50 oh, probably more like towards the first two years just because like, it wasn't really towards the last two years that I got to focus more on what I wanted to do. So like the first two years was kind of like when I had like, extra electives that I really like, Okay, I've got these classes that I enjoy taking, okay, now I got these other two, you know, what I want to take with like what's left? That's not already like taken up by the the higher up, juniors and seniors so to speak. So being able to just have a little more control in the sense of, this is truly what I want to do. Let me expand my horizons in this area, compared to now it's like, oh, well, I guess I'll take oceanography because I have this free elective that any credits, but it's like everything else I want to do is is taken up?   Michael Hingson ** 38:31 Well, how would you change the whole curriculum to make it more practical? Or would you   Gus Rodriguez ** 38:41 not the whole critical village has changed in the part, were truly just taking the classes that were going to benefit you the most, because again, you know, full respect to you to UCR, who respect to the professor, everything, oceanography, I went to that's like one example. I only took that because, again, I had an elective, I need the credits to graduate and also, everything else is taken up. But we're kind of forced to take that class. So now, if I could just change that and actually take a class that would have been more beneficial. Again, maybe like people organization skills, or you know, as it became a manager, and now looking back, like a lot more of the debit and credit, the finance portions, things like that, that would actually benefit more in the long term.   Michael Hingson ** 39:25 Do you plan on going back to school and doing any more studies going for more advanced degree?   Gus Rodriguez ** 39:31 Oh, the NBA is always in the back of my mind, but uh, it's expensive. So with all the companies I've worked for, they all do provide tuition reimbursement to an extent, but it's also trying to find the time right now. As mentioned earlier, on being on time, you know, it's not just the trade off of the money but also the trade off of on my days off, do I really want to be spending more time even though it's an investment in me that we want Spend time taken away from you enjoying the little thing is relaxing. So it's always like a back and forth where maybe maybe who knows? I'll go, I'll go back. But if not, you know, I'm not gonna I like to say my experience for itself speaks so far for getting to those higher positions that I can go for.   Michael Hingson ** 40:17 Do you do much reading about different subjects relating to what you do management theory team building and any of that sort of stuff? Do you? Do you still study that in some way? Yeah, I   Gus Rodriguez ** 40:31 read a couple books here and there. A lot of my previous jobs, and even though I'm one of them, I provide books on leadership, like, actually, I'm on this on my phone, but it's been balanced by a book right now, the question behind the question. So basically, you know, what, to really ask yourself, to eliminate victim thinking, complaining and procrastination. So little things like that, that I follow up with just so that way. It's not just for myself, but then how can I get that concept and possibly use it on a team member that might need it one day, one of my leads, one of my supervisors, etc.   Michael Hingson ** 41:05 You've talked about mental health in various ways, and during our time, and and when we talked before, what prompts your great interest in the whole idea of mental health? Oh,   Gus Rodriguez ** 41:17 I mean, like many other, I won't even say meters, this point, people. I've had my fair share of struggles with mental health, stepping back from college, and not necessarily from the stress college, but just life in general, you know, so, you know, things like that, that, you know, there was times when I wasn't in the best headspace didn't want to be closed off, just getting just a lot, a lot of like, 1000s of things going through my head. And just being able to, thankfully, now I'm in a much better, better headspace. But getting the help that I needed. And that goes into kind of what we've been talking about, as I get to know, my, my people, so to speak, letting them know that yes, you know, we got a job to do, we got things to take care of, it's a business, but I want to make sure I'm also taking care of you. If you're in a good mental health space right now. Great, fantastic. And I'm here to discuss it, you know, I know, maybe my had been a little different compared to the mental health issue they're going through, but at least I know what it's like to, to not be okay. And just remember, that's fine, too. But it's a matter of speaking, okay, in the hope, and ensuring that they always have an outlet for it. So   Michael Hingson ** 42:31 a lot of your mental health discussions are really arranged around stress.   Gus Rodriguez ** 42:39 I mean, stress of the things, it's, it's funny, it's like the things that I can't handle. And then once I do, it's a great, that's gone. But it's also like the things that are out of my control to where, like many people I'm sure, like, you know, involves us, we try to kind of like, forget about it, because like, look, it's out of my hands, how much I can do, it is what it is, but at the same time, it's always lingering there, you know. So being able to, again, you know, make sure I'm still okay, taking the time, I need to make sure I can take care of others as well. But being able to find ways to limit that, that stress that lingers in the back of somebody's mind.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 So what would you advise to someone who's maybe going through some sort of stress or mental health issue? And and that's a such a general question, because there's so many different kinds of mental health issues. But what what kind of advice would you give to someone or maybe someone who's listening who may be having a hard time with something?   Gus Rodriguez ** 43:36 Easier said than done, but definitely figuring out two things. First one, maybe what, what triggers the most most of it, or what's the main thing that you're thinking of, and again, divide it to kind of what I said, which control you can control, and the other just gain an outlet. Again, if it's my team at some time, if you're comfortable, romantic at the time, you want to speak to me about it, I can have that conversation you about it, or the most simple thing is I can just shut up and listen, sometimes it's what's the one month just for someone to know what's going on, to let them know that, you know, the world might not come crashing down right away, but at least someone heard him out. And then the other thing is ultimately, when you gain that lesson mentioned, or to gain help is once you figured out what it is, again, whether it's a friend or family member, even just therapy, ensuring that someone is there for you. Because a lot of times I feel we have that mindset of it is what it is which you know, I'm guilty of it too. And we just kind of like let things ride out, things build up and eventually it comes out very nasty, or it continues to get built up and then you know, you're in a much worse state than you would have ever been able to just talk to somebody about it.   Michael Hingson ** 44:48 You know, you said something that really is so important. It more often than not makes perfect sense to as you put it shut up and listen. We spent so much time Talking, and not listening and observing. And I love the fact that you are very much an observer. And you're willing to listen, because a lot of times, really not a lot, you can say, it really is going to be best if somebody can just talk something through. I've talked to a lot of people who are coaches and talk to some people who are therapists. And of course, what, what, what most people would say is that it's all about self discovery, or it very well can be that you have to figure out what is really bothering you. And good listeners can ask questions. But we really have to figure out most things for ourselves. And all we can do is be guided down the right path. Yep.   Gus Rodriguez ** 45:48 I'm big believer that, again, I don't have all the answers. Even if I tell you, like, you know, let me get the right resources. But sometimes the most simple thing with working with others is just being an active listener, or just like being an active listener, but being able to understand that the situation that someone's providing, or speaking to you about is something that you've never gone through, or you know, God will never go through. But the fact that you can be sympathetic and empathetic, relate as much as possible, at the same time, be as quiet as possible, so that when they just have their moment to be as vulnerable as they can with you. It's such a such a huge thing that not many people I feel, see the value and until they've gone through it, or they see someone else go through it.   Michael Hingson ** 46:38 Have you ever had any examples where what you do as a team leader, and and an observer hasn't worked, and that something just didn't work out in terms of dealing with someone.   Gus Rodriguez ** 46:54 One of my roles, I would probably say there was like a, because what I observe is not just people's actions by body language, or what they do. But it's also like,   Gus Rodriguez ** 47:06 when they say certain things, I think about certain cues that the body does, again, kind of makes your body language too. But there was one time called a teammate with my office. It's okay to let out whatever was going on. They were just, for a moment just quiet, trying to try and get the words because sometimes, and I've gone through this where it's it's hard to put into words, right? And it's a little hard for me to listen or help if they themselves can explain it. So in that situation, that sounds like look, I understand. So I'm not forcing you, I'm not expecting you to be able to put in words, either. It's like that sometimes. And get just a moment of silence where, at least for myself, I don't judge, I don't question it. To me, it's like, you know, maybe this moment of silence, still them just trying to get everything together in there. And then ultimately, I cannot directly right away. But what I was able to do, I was like, Look, I kind of put you on the spot by asking that. So I apologize, that's only, but at the same time, I also don't want you to beat yourself up for not being able to explain how you feel because that's valid. Sometimes you can't, sometimes it's it's a mixture of so many things that we just don't do it justice, right. So I was able to at least partner them with HR and they get to go to therapy. And unfortunately, at least with me, they they stop working after like a month after just because they need to take care of themselves and do what they had to do. But at least for me, it was it was a winning loss. It was a it was one because I would love to keep them on to let them know that you're there. And I would have been nice or to feel that I could have done more. But it's also a loss because again, I didn't I can only do so much. And that goes back to being sympathetic, empathetic. Knowing where your where your life is. Also, don't worry, like, as much as I would love to, here's where I can't. So I haven't heard from them ever again. I hope they're doing well. That's what they do look back on and I'm just like, little guilty, but at the same time, it's like, again, it's only so much I could do you know, because I wish it was it would be more but sometimes it's just out of out of my expertise, so to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 49:15 Well, you know, and you can't teach people things and they really have to teach themselves all you can do is guide the way and there's only so much you can do. Yeah. So do you spend much time like at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day doing any kind of self analysis or introspection? What worked yesterday or earlier today? What didn't work? Even something that worked what could I do to improve it or what could I do to have addressed the situation differently? You know, may come pretty natural to you but do you do you do much self analysis?   Gus Rodriguez ** 49:53 Oh every day. I love my positions are the ones I worked in. ask the President now just because I know I tell people I know when I won, and I know when I lost, so to speak that day. And when I say that, it's like I can kind of like you mentioned, go back and say, Hey, this didn't work. What could I have done? What? At what point in the day should I have done this or being able to kind of, it's like a, like a, like a football game or basketball? Look at the highlights. Okay, this was good. This is good. Okay, who's where this went wrong? What could I have done there? So being able to replay that in my head, but also what I took the what's on his head in that short term memory, we're like, Okay, once you know, I figured it out. It's done. Days, done, stop linger on it. Because I can change anything we look at tomorrow. Remember what I'm gonna do, or what's gonna be done different. But in terms of the failure, so to speak, now, it's like, forget it, it's a new day, all you can do is get better, right? So, you know, the day I do that, in comparison to a previous state, what I went wrong, what went good. And even the days where everything, let's say, you know, market already went perfectly smooth, can ask more. I still think back and look back. Right? I did this for the team with the this facility, the operation looks good. What could I have done for myself, though? Because at the end of the day, I think that's the balance to where it's not just a servant leader, and I just take care of my team and the business, but it's also making sure that if I'm wanting to repeat that same performance, possibly, am I still in a position to take care of myself to take care of others and go from there? As   Michael Hingson ** 51:30 part of your leadership style? Do you regard yourself more of a servant than anything else? Many   Gus Rodriguez ** 51:38 times, yes. Because, as mentioned before, you know, a lot of the positions I've worked in, whether it's supervisor or manager, the people that report to me, bless their souls, you know, they they do all the heavy lifting, I'm just blessed to be in a position where they trust my thinking, they trust my direction, the big picture that I want to go towards, and they follow Me, and they see that I want to step and get my hands dirty, too. But ultimately, I'm there to put them in positions to also succeed. Because, you know, a lot of my success, probably 90% of my success, even though I can look back and say no, well, I did this way. So why did this to set people up? Yes. But if no one is there to help steer the ship with me or help help move the ship. It's just me by myself, and I'm gonna get you nowhere.   Michael Hingson ** 52:26 Yeah. Yeah, it's still all about the team. And should be about the team. Yeah. So if you could, is there anything that you would change about your journey, your personal journey and your journey as a leader as well?   Gus Rodriguez ** 52:47 Oh, looking back.   Michael Hingson ** 52:50 Yeah, retrospective, a little here. Yeah.   Gus Rodriguez ** 52:55 personal journey, probably, my, it's always weird to say this, because, you know, I'm only 26. I, my career's only been about like, four to five years already, but I'm probably like, in my much younger port, or my mature started my career is looking back in, again, as a man advocate for mental health. Now, being a bigger advocate back then for myself to feel would have spoken up sooner or didn't try and brush it off. So you know, I got this just, it's whenever it is, what it is the other day, but I would have done that sooner, I would have probably avoided a lot more mental health damage or stress to myself. And I would have put myself in position for even earlier success, or just earlier moments of peace, so to speak. But in terms of professional, I would probably keep everything the same, you know, I've learned a lot. failures, pains, losses, it's it's all part of growing, then one thing I probably will change is going back to, again that you know, blessed so that when I was an attempt picker, they looked after me and he checked on me. I wish I had more conversation with them. Because I feel like those are the kind of people that we need in this world. And I feel like as much as he was checking up on me, I could have done better to also you check up on him and make sure he was good. Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 54:19 you'll have I'm sure other opportunities with people to do that very same thing. And you know, more than you did before. Yeah. One of the biggest things that I talk about a lot on the podcast, and you've alluded to it, and I think it's extremely important is we really need to not worry about the things that we don't have control over because as you've pointed out, really stresses us out. And we really should focus on the things we can control because the rest will have to take care of itself and it will take care of itself. But we're not going to be able to do anything to address it directly. And   Gus Rodriguez ** 54:55 you know, that's something that even now I still it's an ongoing battle because there's you know, because it's always gonna be a thing. There's always things that come up where it's out of my hands. But it's like, oh, you know, you tend to just think so much about it. And I tell people that's like one of the main killers or joys, just worrying about things that are out of control, which can easier said than done. But taking the time to just find those little things in life. Get your mind off of that, so that we can just enjoy yourself. Yeah, there   Michael Hingson ** 55:24 are too many forces that try to make us think about all the things that we don't have control over. And it's a tough discipline to just focus on the things over which we really have control, and to not stress and bother so much about everything else. But it's a it's a tough lesson to learn, but one that hopefully more of us will catch on to as we go forward, what's the biggest thing you would take away from everything that you've done or has happened to you so far? Oh,   Gus Rodriguez ** 55:54 let me know. Thanks. Thankfully, I can say I'm applying it. But the biggest thing I could take away, not just for myself, but as I spoken to multiple student orgs and classes without going back being a guest speaker. And even just in telling my leads, and my supervisors that I'm trying to develop, the biggest thing I can always take away is, is a mixture of two things is one, take care of people, and they'll take care of you. I believe that all aspects of life, you know, your family, your friends, your team members, take care of them, make sure they're good, their mental health is good. You're developing them, you're helping them in any way, shape, or form to get better. So that way, they understand the impact that they're doing impact that you're doing in life, and even doing direct impact, because I believe that, you know, I might help this person, they eventually help somebody else the same way I help them. It's a domino effect. And then the other mixture is just the end of the day. You know, life is life, things are gonna happen. Just make sure you're taking care of not just your body physically, but mentally because I feel the mental points overlooked so many times. And that's usually what leads to our, our own demise. So to speak.   Michael Hingson ** 57:07 You Yeah, certainly good sage advice to, to give to other people take care of yourself and watch out for others. Yep. Well, this has been fun, enjoyable, and I really appreciate your time. Can people reach out to you and talk with you in any way? How would they do that?   Gus Rodriguez ** 57:29 Oh, yeah, by all means, I believe you have my LinkedIn, you also my email, I think you reach out either one.   Michael Hingson ** 57:36 Once you go ahead and say why don't you go ahead and say those if he wouldn't and spill, anything that's relevant to spell?   Gus Rodriguez ** 57:43 Well, the email is g r o d r 025@gmail.com. I'll say that one more time. Gmail is g r o d r 025@gmail.com. As far as the LinkedIn and so it's very long to say but just look up, Gustavoe. with a period, Rodriguez. And you should be able to find me the title of my position that was operations leader, that was a little easier. Sort of trying to find like operations manager, supervisor, etc.   Michael Hingson ** 58:14 And people can call you Gus. I would prefer it   Gus Rodriguez ** 58:17 just because it's so cliche becoming unstoppable. It's like it's talking to my dad. There   Michael Hingson ** 58:21 you go. And it gets you to the point quicker also. Well, I want to really thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening to us. Hopefully you found our conversation useful and relevant in some way. I'd love to hear from you and would really appreciate you emailing me You can reach me at Michaelhi , m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson  m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast. And wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. We really value those ratings and your reviews. Hopefully, you really liked what you're hearing. And if you you do we want to know it. And if you have any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas of other people who want to come on unstoppable mindset as guests and guests the same for you love to hear any ideas. We are always looking for people to come on unstoppable mindset. So one last time though, Gus, I want to thank you for being here. And we really appreciate your time and value all the things that y

Jordan Howlett just needs a minute. Give him that, and he's liable to have you hooked. Thanks to his highly recognizable, signature mirror-selfie videos, Howlett (San Diego Magazine's cover star for our 2024 Best Restaurants issue) has amassed upwards of 30 million followers across his social channels by sharing fast food hacks and wisdom with deadpan delivery and a genuine love of food. Some 70 million people see his videos every month on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. He's a one-minute, one-man daily Netflix special. But it hasn't been easy. Growing up financially strapped meant that Howlett's opportunities were often limited. Stress has been a theme. He's been belittled and bullied. He slept in his car while chasing a dream. It took a maniacal work ethic and healthy amount of delusion to propel him to the social media stratosphere. “I didn't realize how creative my parents were until I realized just how much we were really struggling,” Howlett tells us in this episode of Happy Half Hour. Born in LA County, Howlett moved to Oceanside in the fourth grade after spending his early life in the desert town of Victorville. Howlett began attending Oceanside High as a sophomore, where he joined the baseball team. “Originally, I was thinking maybe football,” Howlett says. “I'm on my way to the football field and the baseball coach sees me, and he points me right at the baseball field and says, ‘Why don't you go over there?'” That interception changed the course of Howlett's life. At 16, with no sports experience, Howlett became hooked on baseball. Before long, he started dreaming of playing Division 1 ball. He wanted to go pro. But his teammates had been playing since preschool. Howlett had some catching up to do and 100 people—teammates, coaches, everyone—telling him he had no chance. But Howlett didn't care. He just got to work, training every spare minute, working three times harder than everyone else. It paid off. Howlett found himself on fields he was never supposed to see… at least until Covid killed his baseball career. Then it was back to low-wage fast food jobs—until that work ethic came in handy for growing a social media audience. In this episode of HHH, Howlett joins us in the studio to recount his childhood in Oceanside, his path from awkward high school baseball wannabe to Division 1 athlete, and his road to internet superstardom. Along the way he recalls how his Fast Food Secrets Club came to be, recoils from pickle pizza, and tells us about one of his absolute favorite local spots to eat. Want to see his videos? Follow him at @jordan_the_stallion8.

I have had the honor to talk with a number of career coaches, mindfulness advocates and experts as well as others who promote, in one way or another, introspection and self evaluation. Getting the opportunity on this episode to speak with Alicia Ramsdell who had considerable knowledge about all these subjects really puts many concepts into perspective. Alicia thought she wanted to be a veterinarian , but fairly quickly realized that, for her, animals was not a way to earn an income. She was, however, good in math and chose to begin a career in the executive recruiting industry where she worked for fifteen years. In 2019 she left that field after deciding to take the leap to start her own business helping people to better understand themselves and their career choices. Her last four years of work not only have been personally and financially rewarding, but she found that working for herself in the Covid era worked well. We talk about a number of topics including meditation, life choices, self analysis and introspection and what success really means. We discuss other things, but I will leave it to you to listen to hear everything. Near the end of our conversation we even learn why Alicia felt it was time to leave the executive career field and how difficult it was for her to really take the step to move on. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Lots of good snippets and lessons in life to hear. About the Guest: Alicia Ramsdell, a powerhouse career and mindfulness expert, TEDx speaker, and CEO of Mindful Career Path, LLC. With over 15 years of experience in Corporate America, Alicia has cultivated a life by design in Career Development roles, and is a Certified Career Services Provider, Global Career Development Facilitator, and certified in Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction and Organizational Mindfulness. Alicia provides invaluable insight into career development strategies, leveraging stress as a tool to elevate your life's work. She has three main priorities: captivating audiences as a keynote speaker, revolutionizing career development as a corporate partner for employees, and empowering individuals to achieve career fulfillment as a career coach. Her TEDx talk in York Beach, Maine, "Don't be afraid to fail in the career of your dreams. Be afraid to succeed in the career of your nightmares," is an inspiring reminder to pursue your passions fearlessly. As a Certified Career Services Provider (CCSP) and Global Career Development Facilitator (GCDF), Alicia provides a unique perspective on career development. Her focus on mindfulness, stress reduction, and career fulfillment sets her apart as an expert in the field. Join Alicia on her mission to design fulfilling and mindful careers for all. Her experience in Corporate America and as a mindfulness expert gives her a unique perspective on career development. Whether you're an individual looking to achieve career fulfillment or a corporation looking to revolutionize your approach to career development, Alicia has the expertise to help you reach your goals. Ways to connect with Jann: TEDx Talk: https://youtu.be/bWCaTE0d2ww?si=EiJ77c2jjZtvwD0Z Mindful Career Path's Website: www.mindfulcareerpath.com Alicia's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliciaramsdell/ Mindful Career Path's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mindful-career-path/ YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/@mindfulcareerpath Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Mindful.Career.Path Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mindful_Careers Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Mindful.Career.Path/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Welcome once again to an episode of unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here with us today. Thanks for joining us, we get to talk with today a mindfulness mindfulness expert. If I could talk I'd be in good shape, a TEDx speaker, and a person who I've really come to enjoy and get to know she also has a company mindfulness career path. We're gonna get to all of that as we go forward. But I'd like you to meet Alicia Ramsdell. Alicia, how are you?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 01:51 Mike? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 01:54 thanks for being here. And Alicia lives in North of Boston. And as we were talking earlier, I lived in Winthrop, Massachusetts, and was there for three years and worked with a company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Kurzweil Computer Products for a number of years in and around that. But I was in Boston in New York during the big blizzard of 78, which a lot of people don't remember, but it was quite the snowstorm and quite the time.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 02:24 I believe in I'm not going to tell you if I was born then or not, but that's okay. parents. My parents tell me about it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:30 Well, as I was mentioning, just before we came on, I used to frequent Durgan Park and Quincy Market, and I've heard that it closed down and Durgan Park was a restaurant that was very famous for family style, food and service. And they would not let you sit at one of the tables on the side for four people. Unless there were four of you. They made people sit in family style, and that was fine. But we went in one night there were several of us. Actually, I think there were only three of us. But I had my guide dog with me. At that time. It was Holland, my second guide, who was a wonderful, beautiful male golden retriever. And the hostess said, you know, just to make it easy. We're going to put you at one of the tables for four. And I said, Well, we're gonna get in trouble for that. And she said, No, you won't. Well, sure enough, the waitress came over and they're all trained to be real snots. And she said, You can't sit here. There are only three of you and you can't sit here and I said, well, the hostess said that we could sit here. No, she didn't. Yeah, she did. Because I have a guide dog. Oh, I'm not gonna fall for that. You don't have a dog. I don't see a dog. Well, Holland was well under the table. And the tablecloth came down, so she wouldn't have seen him. And she kept saying, No, you can't be here. And she walked away. And then she came back. She's there, you're gonna have to move. And I said, Look, there is a guide dog under the table. We were told we could sit here. She finally at least lift up the tablecloth. And there are these brown eyes looking out at her from under the table. And she goes, Oh, what a cute dog and she walks away and she comes back with a plate. Now Durgan Park was known for its prime rib and the prime rib was so large that it would hang over the sides of the plate sometimes anyway, she had this and she said a customer didn't finish it. Can I give it to the dog? For customer relations? I would normally say no. But I said Oh sure. So we made a friend for life. It was so funny because the nastiness went away.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 04:23 Nobody can be in a foul mood when they see a golden retriever. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 04:27 staring back at him. And Hollan was quite happy with prime rib. Well, that's our that's our Boston's that our busing story for the woman anyway, but I'm really glad that we have a chance to be here. So tell us a little about you. Maybe growing up in the earlier Alicia and all that stuff.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 04:45 Certainly. So as you mentioned, I grew up in and still live north of Boston, Massachusetts. And for a long time as a child I wanted to be a veterinarian, and I realized that myself actually I have a golden retriever. I've had three golden retrievers throughout my lifetime. So I've always really enjoyed having a pet. But as soon as I realized that veterinarians had to, you know, handle the surgery side of things, I knew that I couldn't stomach it. So I had to switch my thinking about where I would go, you know, Beyonds my childhood dreams of being a veterinarian. And as I moved on, I became really good at math. And my future took me to accounting and tax, and not as exciting as being a veterinarian, but there was a lot of job security around there. And the business program that I went through the school that I went to, had an excellent reputation. I made a lot of lifelong friends from there. And my career was 15 plus years in the accounting and tax industry. And although I really never loved what I was doing, I got to meet a lot of wonderful people along the way. And like I said, Before, I have the job security that comes along naturally with the tax and accounting, yes. But fast forward to the present day, I left the accounting and tax, accounting and tax industry in 2019. And I started my business mindful career path. And really what that stemmed from was, I saw a gap in the industry, or I should say, within corporate America, in general, of lacking career development conversations where people could feel that they could be vulnerable without any sort of backlash to it. A lot of people want to talk about developing in their careers, but sometimes with the internal resources, they were shy or hesitant to speak freely about where they were in their career, where they see things weren't working, or what was working. So I wanted to create a career development coaching business, where I would come in as the external consultant and have one on one confidential conversations with employees to help with their career development, allow them to be vulnerable in their conversations, and also add into that understanding their stress levels and helping them through mindfulness based stress reduction techniques. So that started in the beginning of 2020. And now towards the end of 2023. I really haven't looked   Michael Hingson ** 07:34 back since. Is your business at home?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 07:38 Yeah, remotely. Yeah. So which COVID was not a good thing? Yeah, the world. Yeah. But it worked out that the remote style of professionalism allows me now to work out of the comfort of my home. But at the same time, globally, so I have clients that are, you know, in Europe and the United States, and Asia, and sofa, and there's so much power and benefit to be able to work with people globally and understand the various cultures as well.   Michael Hingson ** 08:12 And that's why I ask the question, because you certainly were a lot more easily able to lock down then people since in the sense you are already working, where you live, so it was kind of easier probably to address that issue.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 08:28 Absolutely. And beyond COVID. If you think about it, a lot of individuals were experiencing overwhelming stress just because of the change in their regular lifestyle. So the combination of career development coaching, but with that mindfulness based stress reduction approach was extremely beneficial to any individual. And it didn't matter which industry they were in.   Michael Hingson ** 08:56 Yeah. Which, which makes a lot of sense. And you were certainly able to do that we locked down my wife had rheumatoid arthritis. So we really were very sensitive to it. But I mostly worked virtually and remotely. So I worked from home and continue to work from home. Except for when I'm traveling, obviously, but it makes a lot of sense. And the reality is, we can make working virtually or working from home as easy or as hard as we want. And it really is a choice. And the fact of the matter is it does work pretty well if we want it to to be able to work from home rather than always having to go into an office somewhere.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 09:38 Absolutely. And to add to that point, I certainly see the benefit of building relationships in person and the difference between you know, a virtual setting and an in person setting. But the flexibility like you said, that remote capability really allows us to grow leaps and bounds runs in our businesses as well as professionally when we want to connect with, you know, people halfway across the world.   Michael Hingson ** 10:08 You indicated that you're certified in mindfulness based stress reduction and organizational mindfulness. How do you get certified in that?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 10:20 Sure. So there, I don't know if you've heard of Jon Kabat Zinn, but he's kind of the godfather of mindfulness. And he started this program out of the UMass Medical School MBSR program, so Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction Program, and I started this program. And I think it was 2019. Now I'm forgetting this specific year, but through a recommendation of a friend of mine, who was going through previously, he had went through his own really overwhelming stressful moments in his world. And I was explaining to him, you know, this business, I was considering creating, and my own stressors in my life. And he recommended this program, and he said, it was life changing. So it was a pretty incredible program that I went through, it was a remote opportunity, but we learned, you know, various forms of meditation and mindfulness and so forth. So body scan meditation, we learned, you know, mindful eating, mindful walking, you know, you know, think it was chair yoga, and so forth. So there were a lot of opportunities there. And then this organizational mindfulness program really stemmed from it was sort of an extension of this MBSR program. And it had more of a focus around professionals in their, you know, corporate settings, and how you could apply these techniques within the corporate setting, or as a leader.   Michael Hingson ** 11:50 So what is mindfulness? If you were to define it,   Alicia Ramsdell ** 11:55 certainly, so not really my own definition, or something that I've learned through the teachings of Jon Kabat Zinn. But it's really being present in the current moment, non judgmentally. So you're aware of what's happening without judgment. And that's the a pretty basic definition. But it allows you to be in a moment, in a neutral state, if you can think of it that way. So whether there's highs or lows, whatever the environment calls for, you can be in that state, non judgmentally. Be in this neutral state, and be able to better reflect on it moving forward, then getting really high about it, or really low about it, and kind of making as you would call it, like a rash decision in the given moment in the heat of the moment. So that's the way that Jon Kabat Zinn explains it. And that's something that has resonated with me, thinking back to my own stressors. And I'll pause there for a moment. That's okay.   Michael Hingson ** 13:00 It, it seems to me that one of the things that is really important for people to think about is, especially in our world today, mindfulness relating to fear. How does mindfulness help one deal with fear and not as I would call it being blinded or overwhelmed by fear when something unexpected happens, or just with everything going on in the world.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 13:23 So I've, throughout my journey, if you're if you're thinking about fear, or like failures or setbacks, I developed this consistent mindfulness practice. And it's been instrumental in how I handle situations of fear, it really taught me the importance of being non judgmental, and fully present in those moments of, of setback of fear. And instead of pushing it away, or trying to avoid the emotions altogether, I've learned to sit with the emotions and allow myself to fully experience it. And what this does is it really creates a space for reflection and self awareness. And it enables you to gain some insights into what's the best way to move forward. And that's kind of a general theme. But that wasn't always the way I did things in my previous life, as I like to call it. I didn't have a meditation practice. So I used to rely on this notion that that failures or fear would eventually subside on its own. But as time went on, I realized that this approach only added more pressure to that situation. And it became so overwhelming in my life, that I started experiencing physical manifestations of this stress, you know, to the point where I felt like walls are closing in around me. So that that those points in my life is when I consciously made the decision to integrate mindfulness and meditation into my daily routine. And this shift really allows you a sense, allows you a way To cultivate a sense of calm and resilience, and when you do face these challenges when you do face these fears, and it can help you, throughout those fears, have a greater sense of clarity and not to become overwhelmed by those emotions,   Michael Hingson ** 15:18 this being mindful help you or would it help us to address the issue of, we're always trying to control everything. And the reality is we don't have control over everything in the world, and that we really need to focus on the things that we have control over as opposed to all the other stuff that we don't, that we let stress us out.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 15:41 Does that make sense? To repeat the question one more time.   Michael Hingson ** 15:45 When you talk about being mindful, and one of the things that comes to mind for me is that people are always trying are always stressed out because things are happening. And most of it is stuff they have no control over. Does mindfulness help. One focus on dealing with just the things that you do have control over and lessening the worry or eliminating the worry about all the things you can't control?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 16:11 So mindfulness from from that perspective, right, there are things you're right, that we can control. And there are things that we can control? Well, what mindfulness does is it allows you to be aware of what you can control and what you can't control. Because sometimes in life, we think we can control everything. And you exactly, we want to control everything. So it becomes overwhelming to think, why is this situation going this way? And why can't I control it. But what mindfulness lets you do is sit in that moment, and be able to reflect. And then once you get outside of being in the present moment, non judgmentally, you can say, What can I do about this is this out of my control is this in my control, if it's out of my control, then you can move on in a different direction. Or if it's in your control, you can build a strategy around, you know how to make this go differently moving forward. But it just really what it does, it's really doesn't set up for control or lack of control, right just allows you to be aware of where that control lies and where it doesn't, and be able to move forward with that realization. This,   Michael Hingson ** 17:24 the fact that you are if you practice mindful techniques regularly, does all of that become easier.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 17:32 For me, it personally has some people fear when they start their mindfulness practice or meditation practice that, oh, I can't, I can't shut off my my mind, it's always running. And that's a myth. Meditation is not for shutting your mind off or clearing your mind. Again, it's somebody once said, this example, and it really stuck with me. So I'm going to share it again, knowing that it's not my own. But it's imagine you were sitting on the side of a busy road, and cars are going in every direction, and you try to walk out onto that road. And, you know, stick your hands up and tell everybody to stop, there will be chaos and confusion there. There'll be cars crashing into each other. Why is your personnel in the middle of the road. So that's as if you were trying to control the practice, meditation is more think about yourself staying on that side of the road, having a lounge chair chair sitting down on that lounge chair, and just watching the traffic go by not trying to stop anything, but realize it's happening. Hey, this is a busy road. Yeah. And so as you have that mindset, going into starting a meditation practice, or starting a mindfulness practice, that's where you start to grow, rather than assuming you have to clear your mind, or, or anything like that.   Michael Hingson ** 18:55 Yeah, I started doing transcendental meditation in college and have appreciated not only that, but just the whole concept of meditation ever since. And I've maintained for a number of years that we don't do nearly as much introspection and looking at ourselves and what we do and why we do it, and how we can fix it as we should. I used to say all the time, when I listen to speeches I've given I'm my own worst critic, and I realized in the last couple of years, wrong thing to say, I'm not my own worst critic. I read somewhere that, in reality, the only one who can teach me anything is me. Other people can give me all the information, but I have to be the one to teach me to do it. And what I realized is I'm not my own worst critic. I'm my own best teacher, which is also a lot more positive anyway, and we, we don't say nearly enough positive things. So it seems to be that's a very powerful thought to have.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 19:52 Certainly, and you've hit on two really great points that the self talk that we give each other our brain doesn't know if it's Reality, or if it's just something we're thinking. So if it can't decipher between reality and just thoughts in your head, why not give positive self talk not to give fake self talk, but positive self talk to say, like you said, I'm my best my own best teacher, and you flipped it and gave it a different perspective. And that's what you suck to believe. And then the other thing I wanted to touch on, you talked about Transcendental Meditation. That's actually where I started as well. And I read a book called strengthen stillness by Bob Roth. And that was the start of my, you know, meditation. In my mindfulness, education really was self taught, talking about being your own best teacher.   Michael Hingson ** 20:43 Have you ever read 10%, happier by Dan Abrams, I have not Daniel's from on Good Morning America, and so on. And he wrote this book several years ago. And it's his journey in meditation. And he I don't think primarily does Transcendental Meditation, but he does meditate. And it's made a significant difference in his connection on the air, and just in him in general. And so he describes it as being 10%. Happier.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 21:18 Yeah, I love it. I put it on my, my list of books to read.   Michael Hingson ** 21:24 It's well worth reading. Well, you have you have been dealing with, obviously, like all of us different habits and so on, what's a habit that you had to change? Or that you decided to change? As you were going down your journey? And why did you change that in order to achieve your goals?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 21:44 So let's start when I was younger, I used to believe that there were specific paths that you had to follow in order to be successful in life and wherever that part of your life was, was, was was what it was. So this belief stayed with me as I grew up, and even into my adult years. So when I was younger, I thought that maintaining friendships meant always being agreeable, agreeable, like borderline submissive. However, as I got older, I realized the importance of being confident in who I was, and staying true to myself. And it was through this authenticity, that I started to form deeper friendships, deeper relationships with people who truly accepted and loved me for who I was. And similarly that I use that same mindset. When it came to careers later on in life, I believe that there were a certain set of rules, and a specific formula for achieving a successful career. And in the earlier days of my career, I play by those rules, right, Simon Sinek has the book out, I think it's called the infinite game, he talks about, you know, finite game and infinite game and finite game has, you know, a certain set of rules in the same number of players or certain players within it. But I realized that I was playing by these rules, and I didn't really advocate for myself or trust my own instincts. But as time went on, I learned that the value, I learned the value of trusting my intuition, and also standing up for myself in my career, and I discovered that success really isn't found with a predetermined path. I needed to embrace my unique strengths. And then from there, pursue the opportunities that align with those strengths, right, that made sense in the values that I held in the professional passions that I wanted to pursue. And   Michael Hingson ** 23:38 of course, it's important to keep in mind that success is different for each of us. And success. doesn't even necessarily need to be material. But we we're always talking about, we need to be successful. And we really need to define what that means for us, and not how everybody else wants it to find it for us. I   Alicia Ramsdell ** 23:59 couldn't agree more. And, like you said, not only is success different for different people, there's also different timelines. I used to think that Okay, once you graduate college, you need to have a job right away, you can't take any time off. Or same with high school. Once you graduate high school, you can take any time off before you go to college, I had these just all these predetermined paths that I had to stay on, for me to be successful. But honestly, some of the most successful people I know, that Uber uber successful, didn't graduate college, or they graduated college, and they never went to grad school, or, you know, they didn't have a family started at the age of 35. Or, you know, whatever, whatever the rules were. There are a lot of successful people and it's different timelines and different setups as well. If   Michael Hingson ** 24:53 we talk about success in a materialistic sort of way. It seems to me that If you're really going to look at why are you successful, whoever you are, it really comes down to the choices that you make, and that you made. And can you really go back and look at those choices and see what you learned along the way?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 25:15 Absolutely, I created this four quadrant strategy to career fulfillment. And it's a reflection exercise. And we can go through it later. But it's a reflection exercise that really dives into where are your successes? Where are you thriving? Where do you want to learn more? And then on the flip side, kind of where are you successful, don't care to pursue more? And where do you just have responsibilities and don't care to pursue more, but it really allows you that time to bring awareness to what's working, what's not working, again, be non judgmental about it, but then build a strategy moving forward on what to pursue? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:52 it still all comes back to you choosing to be self analytical, and then introspective in order to really look at what you're doing and what works and what isn't working. And I stay away from using the word failure because it has such a negative connotation. But I do believe, as some have said that failure is really just an opportunity to learn. And so I don't regard failure as a negative thing, but rather, is a way to have something that comes along and says, Okay, what are you going to learn from this? Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. And we really need to look at a lot of things in different ways than we do. Do you think that we're changing our attitudes collectively on some of these things, and that we're learning some of the concepts that we're talking about here?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 26:52 I think there's, I think since COVID, I think people are really trying to implement the more, you know, taking more time for self reflection, taking more time for our mental health. You know, whether you use, you know, mindfulness as a whole, or specifically meditation. But I think, you know, from a career perspective, organizations are trying to implement this. Not just idea, but you know, actionable items that people can use, to really make sure that we're going in a direction, that's not just beneficial to the organization, but also to us as individuals. And I don't think we're 100% there yet. But I think there's more awareness around everything that we're talking about today. And I'm hopeful, as you know, younger generations who kind of lived through COVID, and maybe high school days, or even their college days. And this is all they've known since they came into the professional world. And as they become the leaders, right, there are future leaders within organizations and so forth. I think that we're only going to get better from here, given the perspective of pursuing professional interests, that really speak to yourself and really benefit an organization's mission, vision values, and then also being aware of our mental health and our, you know, overall well being.   Michael Hingson ** 28:37 Well, for me, I know, just in talking about what you're describing here, it seems to me that we really need to learn from history more than in the past, we have and that we need to recognize that history is is history, the end, it can be a valuable tool for us. For me. Somewhere along the line. As I was speaking, I suddenly realized as I went to schools, I'm talking to students who never had any direct personal knowledge of September 11. And that now, it's history to them. And I need to recognize that if I want to really communicate with them, and my job as someone who was there is to draw them in. And so I love to people say, are you really bothered about telling your story? Well, I love to tell the story if I can get people to be drawn in and really see what happened that day, and internalize it so that they make it part of their history as well, rather than it just being something that happened. And I think that's true for most anything that we do. So I think you're right, the more we can talk about it, the more we can make conversations about things like mindfulness, what the significance is, and really tell stories to Help people understand that, the better it will be because as we have people growing up, they're hearing more about it. And by really drawing them in, they'll internalize it more, it seems to me.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 30:13 Yeah. And you're right. It's it with the example of September 11. It's a part of the history books. And for those younger individuals who didn't live through, whether you were there or just live through watching it on TV, while it was happening, the stories that people share, really bring it to life. And you know, just a say aloud, I recently read your book, Thunder dog. And it was a side of September 11, that I had never experienced. And of course, I've seen the footage I've heard as many stories as I possibly can. But every time you hear somebody else's account of the day, it brings it all back, like it was happening all over again. So it was an incredible book that you wrote, well,   Michael Hingson ** 31:06 my wife is one of the people who said, Remember, for so many people, September 11th, was only as large as their television screen, or the pictures they saw in the newspaper inch. And she absolutely was right about that. But the other, but the other part about it is that even on that day, so after a while, on September 11, I eventually was able to get up toward Midtown Manhattan, and get on to a train to go back over to New Jersey. And people even on that train said, you're all dirty and dusty. Were you there? Well, what happened, you know, even then I Mike began to hear and start to recognize these people were only a couple of miles away. But to them, they didn't see it, it really wasn't the same as being there. And, you know, the only thing I think that I can do to help history and to help people is to, in a sense, and not in a negative way, but make September 11 alive, so that people understand the choices that got us there the choices that got me there the choices that got me out, and why remembering it is so important. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And it's, you know, it is one of those things. Well, so, you know, we we talked about you changing beliefs, and so on, if you could go back and talk to a younger Alisha, and give her one piece of advice, what would that be? And and then as she grew up, how would that have impacted her life, which means it would have impacted your life.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 32:52 So I'd love to pick just one thing, but I might I know it's hard. You can go ahead. So first of all, I would tell my younger self to start practicing meditation earlier. In my life, it's really amazing how much clarity and peace of mind can come from taking a few moments a day, to focus in on the present moment, non judgmentally, right, I go through anywhere from 20 minutes to 45 minutes a day of meditation. And, and I do it at the very beginning of my day, right after, right after I wake up. So it sets me up for obviously a positive start, but a clearer start, which is nice, too. And then second, I really encourage myself to trust my gut trust my intuition more. I won't say all the time. But most of the time, our gut feelings can really, really guide us in the right direction, even when logic and reason can suggest otherwise. But learning to listen to my inner voice and trusting it, I believe really could have led to some incredible opportunities and personal growth. Now, I don't regret things that I did you know, previously, you know, because it got me to where I am today. But if I could go back, that's when I would share with my younger self. And then one maybe silly thing, but then but I think it could really benefit myself and a lot of other people is I think I would urge myself to practice Brazilian jujitsu. It's a great physical activity, of course, but I've heard the benefits and I haven't done it yet. Right? The mental health benefits. It's consistently challenging yourself in that regard is on a map. But what it's doing, it's improving your mental focus. It's improving your problem solving abilities, right, you're on this mat, and you have this unique opportunity to test out solutions and then receive immediate impact or immediate feedback and say, do this work know, how can I get out of this situation, but you're not allowed to panic on the mat. And I think that we were talking before about fear. A lot of what comes with fear is, is panic, right? That initial moment of panic. And I think Brazilian jujitsu can really help with the problem solving could really help with critical thinking in its physical form. So it's good exercise. But I, I've heard, and I want to put it into practice. And I feel like as I get older, I've become more fearful of starting it. So that's why I would have told my younger self to start early.   Michael Hingson ** 35:43 Well, time to jump in and try it. And then you're gonna have to come back and talk with us about it so we can hear how it goes.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 35:51 i Well, I'm hoping it goes, well.   Michael Hingson ** 35:54 What are you going to start?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 35:57 I don't know. I have to set it up. But that's, that's my, that's, that's my goal. I'm not.   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 I'm not familiar with Brazilian jujitsu. And I must admit, I don't exercise probably as much as I should. One of the things that I've done, I've started doing a lot more walking. And in the winter, it gets cold here in Victorville. So I discovered that I can still walk around the house, we have a Long Island, it's probably bout a 10 foot long island. And so I've started doing laps around the island, and I'll read a book or sometimes just think while I'm doing it, but I can get well over 10,000 steps just walking around that bar. Now it's level, it's not a hill, or around that island. It's not a it's not hills. But my Apple Watch says great you got in 10,000 steps today. So I can't argue totally with that. So it's a great way to get exercise. And I can do it even in the house. And what I'm really saying is, we can always find ways to accomplish things like that, if we choose to, yeah,   Alicia Ramsdell ** 37:04 walking around an island 10,000 steps or walking 10,000 steps outside and your brain doesn't know the difference. It just knows that you're walking.   Michael Hingson ** 37:12 Yeah. And it doesn't care. And, and so I can do it. And it goes really well. So my my brain and my Apple watch, like the idea. So I get the information. And it's really kind of cool. So I basically tried to do that every day. And it's a way that I also can, while I'm doing that think and sometimes meditate, although best meditations are when you can sit and relax in it, it is enough, Faker, a hokey thing to do that. But if you're really gonna meditate, then you need to allow yourself to drift and not try to make choices or do anything while you're meditating. But you've got to let your brain relax as well. And look at the day.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 38:00 And that's the beauty of meditation, you don't have to do anything. You just sit there in that present moment with your thoughts. And you can have a focus point, right? Whether that be your breath, or anything else. But every time your mind shifts to a thought or a worry or concern, acknowledge it, and then bring it back to that focus point. So like I said, with your breath, think of like a flashlight, leaving the spot that you was originally on just bringing that flashlight back to that spot?   Michael Hingson ** 38:32 And looking at why it's there. And what what, if anything, could you really do about it anyway? Right? And it's fair to think about what can you do about it, if anything, anyway, again, it gets back to not trying to control every little thing that comes along. Exactly. So with all the things that you're doing regarding mindset, which I find fascinating and absolutely relevant, how do you handle failure? And when you're dealing with setbacks, how do you handle those? And what strategies have you adopted to deal with that?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 39:07 Yeah, so I alluded to this earlier, but really, my mindfulness practice has helped me throughout my life and failures or when I started this process. So it was, in my days of corporate America, I really started my mindfulness practice. So specifically for me, like I mentioned before, it's 20 to 45 minutes every morning when I first wake up. And what this allows me to do is that I know that failures and setbacks are going to happen throughout my days. This gives me a chance to just sit with those feelings, sit with those emotions, in a sense, peacefully. And then I feel like when I do, get out of the meditation practice, I then workout and exercise. I then focus on you know, getting my kids After school, from there, I go outside and I take my dog for a walk. So I'm getting that sunlight. I'm getting that extra exercise with walking outside with a fresh year. And by the time I come back and have a healthy breakfast, whatever failures and setbacks I was worried about from the day before, starting my day, the way I do between a meditation practice and exercise practice, you know, getting a walk in outside getting that sunlight having a healthy breakfast, I feel like almost like Superwoman, I can kind of handle anything, because I've empowered myself physically and mentally, for the day. And I almost accept the fact that I shouldn't even say almost, I do accept the fact that failures and setbacks are going to come along the way. So I think it's a part of being realistic, and not kind of putting your head in the sand like, Oh, I'm not gonna have any failures or setbacks. This is gonna go swimmingly. I prep myself to say, when something does go wrong, this is what I want you to do, Alicia, right, I want you to sit with the emotions of it not going right. Kind of journaling. What happens specifically, without emotion involved? What specifically happened, it's like, oh, I'm really upset because this person didn't call when they were supposed to, or this person didn't show up to a meeting, or I was late because of a traffic situation, or whatever it was, without emotion. It's this happened, this happened. This happened, very matter of fact, and then coming back to it and saying, Okay, moving forward, what if that didn't happen? How would that have set me up for success? And kind of going backwards, working from what did happen? Working our way backwards, and then trying to go back forward? I know that sounds a little convoluted, but I'm trying to figure out what were the specific actions that didn't allow it to happen? And then say, Okay, well, if that didn't happen, what would have been more successful? Or what would have been better about the situation? Have you ever had strategy? You ever   Michael Hingson ** 42:13 had any real major setback in your life that just completely threw you off your game? And how did you deal with that?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 42:21 Well, being in corporate America for 15 years, I faced a pivotal moment after the end of that when I had to make a decision to leave and start my own business. Now, no, I didn't have to start my own business, I could have stayed in corporate America. But it was a challenging decision for me, because I was I had to let go of job security. For me, that's a significant step, considering my backgrounds in accounting, and tax with an undergraduate degree, a graduate degree and extensive experience that I gained in the industry. But I discovered that in my days in corporate America that like I said, Before, there was a gap in career development landscape within corporate America. There were a lot of internal resources that provided employee support. But I noticed again, like I said, there was a need for confidential one on one conversations, career development conversations. And many individuals were hesitant to openly discuss their career aspirations and their challenges with internal resources. So what I do with mindful career path is I set this framework up, where we combine career development, one on one coaching in a confident confidential setting, think of like, you know, the doctor patient confidentiality, and then while also addressing individual stress levels. So for me, the difficult piece came when, at the end of corporate, my corporate America is I was going through a toxic work situation. And I was trying to handle it internally and stay there internally, because of the fear of leaving job security. I never really imagined myself as someone who would take the risk to be, you know, a business owner, but I had a lot of self dealt in leaving, right, that whole imposter syndrome, can I really do this? Can I really start my own business? But after dealing with some toxic work environment factors, I realized I only have this one life to live. Do I choose to stay in toxicity? For another 15 years, just because I felt there was job security? Or do I take those next 15 years, even five years, even one year and try to make a difference for anybody else not to experience the same thing I was experiencing in that moment. Right offer up this car You're developing conversation offer up stress, mindfulness, stress, mindfulness based stress reduction techniques to individuals. So that was a really difficult decision for me. And I think what I learned, again, I talked about this before, is trusting my intuition trusting my gut. And I'm glad I did. Because as I said, Before, I started this in 2020. And I haven't looked back   Michael Hingson ** 45:22 since. Yeah, we often just choose not to listen to that inner voice. And I'm glad that you do it is an important thing. I love to use the example of Trivial Pursuit. How many times does somebody play Trivial Pursuit? And the question comes up whatever it is, and an answer flashes in their mind. But then they go, No, that can't be it. And so that's not the answer they give it invariably was the right answer. Yeah, it's, it's so true. happens all too often. On the other hand, it's a great teaching tool to try to teach us to use our inner voice more. And I know that when I do that, and I listen. More often than not, it is the right answer. And people say, How can you know so much? And you know, how do you tell them, You got to listen to your inner voice, you can tell them that they don't listen. But nevertheless, that's what it is. Because oftentimes, it's about something I've never heard of before, or I just don't know anything about. Yeah. That inner voice picks up on so many things that we don't. Yes, yeah. And   Alicia Ramsdell ** 46:27 it's something that I think comes with time, it comes with experience that comes with age to say, remember that time they did listen to my gut, or my intuition and see how it went, why not give it a shot. So I think it's more about building up that confidence level, to trust your gut to trust your intuition. But   Michael Hingson ** 46:46 it is something that you have to practice doing and you have to make a conscious decision to do it. And sometimes when it just doesn't seem like you should do it, you still have to decide that's what I've got to do. Because it will give you the better answer whatever that is. Absolutely. Well, so what do you do so so by the way, you got two kids, how old are the children?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 47:13 11 and 10. Oh boy, boys, one boy and one girl one   Michael Hingson ** 47:19 of each. Like is future bride is there is there a mister in the in the scene and the picture here? Yes.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 47:25 Yep. My husband Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 47:27 What does he do?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 47:29 He works at in the investment management industry. Does   Michael Hingson ** 47:34 he trust his gut?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 47:38 Yes, he does. Good thing for the most part. If not If not I help them with that. But yes, for the most part, any trust is good. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 47:46 that's a good thing. Well, you've got you know, a cool family. I have a dog and a cat and I haven't mentioned stitch so this is the first time that stitch the cat has been involved in listening and watching a podcast so I've talked about stitch the kitty many times but here she is there a stitch the cat, and we welcome stitch to unstoppable mindset to she's actually she's been very quiet. She hasn't yelled or anything. So she's been very comfy up here on the chair, which is great.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 48:17 What do you do? Guest   Michael Hingson ** 48:19 Oh, she's she's a great guest. Yeah. And then Alamo. The guide dog is over here. He's here's here. Most of the time. He says I'll just lay down and listen, I don't need to do anything. What do you do when, when outside of work to relax and so on? I know we talked about medication but then since I'm not sure that's totally outside work. What else do you do for playtime?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 48:40 Yeah, so,   Michael Hingson ** 48:42 this besides thinking about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but that's,   Alicia Ramsdell ** 48:47 yeah, so one area that there's really two things that I guess kind of like light me up when I'm outside of work. So one area I'm really passionate about is living. And this might not sound fun to other people, but really living an overall healthy lifestyle. So I really like to learn more about how can I optimize my sleep? How can I engage more mindfulness activities, as we've talked about, how can I get regular exercise? How can I, you know, nourish my body with with healthy food choices, but even beyond that, it's become more of like a family affair, where my husband does a lot of research on this. And we've gotten our kids involved in in really understanding the background of this, but things like you know, grounding, right, bare feet on the ground, outside, getting that much needed sunlight, you know, be mindful of the skincare products we put on our skin. And we're as a family, we're really trying to embrace this more like a holistic approach to health and wellness. So that's something that we talk about often. And I think just the excitement of living a healthy lifestyle, the excitement of longevity moving forward, but then another area that really lights me up is working with Youth, right. And that could be in two different dimensions really. But it all relates to building youth confidence. So for me, it's coaching youth sports is getting involved in programs at the high school level, like the business, DECA chapter, which inspires high school students, you know, into their professional or business pursuits. And I teach also at the college level. And again, I do this because I really enjoy seeing the positive impact on on the lives of these of these, whether young individuals as kids or young adults in college, and it fills me with a deep sense of fulfillment, that I could have a positive influence and watch their confidence levels grow, no matter what capacity that's in, right, again, sports, you know, professional pursuits at when they're thinking about it in high school, or even in college classroom. And so those are two different things. But coincidentally, they're very much related kind of to my professional passions.   Michael Hingson ** 51:06 What do you teach in college?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 51:09 I teach that in Beverly at Endicott College. Okay. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 51:13 that's, that is pretty cool and exciting. We haven't talked about the fact that you've written a book.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 51:19 Yes, well, a children's book, I wrote a children's book, and it's called The One and Only incredible me.   Michael Hingson ** 51:24 Well, tell us about that, if you would, please.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 51:28 Sure, it stems from, again, the work that I do professionally. And then I get so excited to talk about it to really anybody. But I even talk about my work to my kids, which I never did before when I was in accounting and tax, as you can imagine, but I would talk to my kids about, hey, you can grow up to be, you know, whatever it is that you would like to be, you know, as long as you put in the effort, and you have the knowledge base, and so forth. And I said a lot of people along the way, are going to make suggestions to you, oh, you should be this. So you should do this, you should do that. And I said, and you don't have to do that, if it doesn't make sense for you. But again, it's kind of reflecting on on what do you want, rather than what does everyone else expect of you. So the book, the one and only incredible me is kind of a fun way to explore, hey, well, when I was younger, my preschool teacher said, Oh, he's going to be an architect one day. And then my high school teacher saw I was good at math. And they said, Oh, he's going to be an engineer one day, and it kind of keeps going on. And it's an interactive book to say, you know, all these wonderful people in my life suggests that I was this, this and this. But I wasn't that in the end, guess what I was, I do this, and I really love what I do. So it's not to, you know, lessen the impact of well intentioned adults in our lives, but it's just to promote our own self awareness, and, you know, excitement to engage in whatever pursuits that we want professionally moving forward.   Michael Hingson ** 53:02 Mr. Campbell was my freshman in high school geography teacher. And I don't know why I am, as I am, but I was brought up to value what my teachers tell me. And, and I remember lots of different things and lots of different kinds of concepts that my teachers brought to my attention. And a lot of times, they were not necessarily in the subjects that the teachers were teaching, for example, Mr. Campbell, once said, he did all sorts of tests, when he was younger to decide what he wanted to do. And everything pointed to the fact that he should be a plumber. But yet, he ended up being a geography teacher, and I would still to this day, say, a good one.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 53:53 Yeah. And imagine this world without him because of the impact that he had on you if he had went down, you know? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 54:02 And, you know, I remember things about geography, although I don't remember what exactly to attribute to Him. But I remembered that lesson from him. And I've had others like that from from teachers. And when they're speaking from the heart like that, it it really does tend to stick with you. And I think it is, as you point out really important for us to really recognize that we are our own selves. And it is our choices. And the earlier we can learn about making good choices or making choices and valuing those choices. Even if they don't turn out right, using that information to grow is very important to do.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 54:43 And the impact that they have can be profound on you know, future generations. The fact that you're still talking about him today is you know, speaks volumes. And   Michael Hingson ** 54:54 the the choice can be good or bad depending on how you decide to deal with it. Whatever it is, right? Yeah. Which is, which is really so cool. Well, let me ask one last question, what's the unique challenge or unique way that you overcome challenges? What's something that you use to overcome challenges and how can others apply it.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 55:18 So when it comes to navigating this, the complexities of today's modern world, I believe, like I've mentioned a number of times that intuition, and self reflection are two of the most powerful tools that can guide us, you know, and specifically, when I when I talk about a lot is career fulfillment, but you can talk about life fulfillment in general, we're living in this world that's referred to as the VUCA world. And this is a world characterized or characterized by volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And because this world is rapidly changing it, it's essential to have a strategy that helps us make sense of our past, write our past experiences, and then use those to chart a course for our future. So this is why I developed and I referenced before, but a framework that I refer to as the four quadrant strategy to career fulfillment, again, you can, you know, change your career life. But what this framework combines is the wisdom of trusting your intuition, and the valuable insights that you've gained from your past experiences. So as I mentioned, the four quadrant strategy, they think of a piece of paper, drawing a line down the middle, and then a line across the center, it's now four quadrants. And in the first top left quadrant, think of things where you have been successful, and where you are thriving and write them down. And the bottom left quadrant, you want to write down areas where you're not yet successful, but you want to learn more about it. So think of those as your learning opportunities. Now switching over to the right side, in the top right corner, you want to write areas where you are successful, but don't really care to pursue more of it. And then in the bottom right quadrant, you want to write down areas where you have responsibilities, you're not necessarily you know, the go to person for them, and you don't care to pursue moving forward. So again, with this overall framework and engaging with it, you don't want to overthink your answers, right? We want to trust our gut instincts, we want to trust our intuition. And this allows our initial thoughts to be exactly as they are no judgment, just writing down our responses. And after we've completed, we take time to reflect on these answers. And then we evaluate, hey, how do these answers align with where I'm currently at, in my career in my life? And how can they be used towards my future aspirations. And then again, you embrace that intuition. You embrace the self reflection process, and you gain clarity, for what you value as well as a professional, what you value is just a human being, and you can use it for areas of growth moving forward.   Michael Hingson ** 58:23 And that is a pretty cool set of techniques that I think anyone can use. And clearly, it's a way where you can discover and learn and grow. Right? Exactly.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 58:34 And it doesn't, you know, sometimes you might hear a framework and might say, Wow, that sounds pretty simple and easy. But at the same time, sometimes it's so simple and easy things that we need to do that can really propel us and can be have a profound impact on our futures. Yeah. It   Michael Hingson ** 58:55 doesn't need to be as I would say, magical to be something that's valuable to do. Well, Alicia, I really want to thank you for being with us on unstoppable mindset. And clearly you demonstrate that kind of a mindset. If people want to reach out to you and maybe talk to you about being a coach or helping them how do they do that?   Alicia Ramsdell ** 59:15 Certainly, they can go to my full career path.com And all my social media links are there, or they can find me on LinkedIn. I think I'm the only Alicia Ramsdell on there. So it's going to be hard to find me spell   Michael Hingson ** 59:30 that for me though, if you would, Alicia.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 59:33 Sure. A l i c i a. Last name R a m s d e l l   Michael Hingson ** 59:43 So reach out to Alicia. Clearly lots of good information. And I think she's a very thoughtful individual that can add value to all of us. And one of the things that I love to do and having these conversations is I get to learn. And I figure if I'm not learning as least as much as other people that I'm not doing my job for me and for anyone else well, so I really value the time that you have taken. And I really value the lessons that you've taught me and hopefully others today. So I really appreciate that. So thank you for being here. And I want to thank you all for listening out there. We really appreciate you, commenting on Alicia's conversation with us today. Please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to unstoppable mindset. Please give us your comments and your thoughts. We'd love them. If you'd like to reach out to me directly. I would invite you to do that please reach out you can email me at Michaelhi m i c h a e l h i at accessibe  A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And then Michael Hinkgon is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast. So I hope that you enjoyed today that you learned something from it reach out to Alicia and I have to say once again, Alicia, thank you for your review about thunder dog. Absolutely.   Alicia Ramsdell ** 1:01:11 Thank you, Michael. And while you're at it, everyone go out on Amazon and pick up the underdog.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:17 Wow. Well thank you again for being here. We really appreciate it.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:01:24 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

I want to introduce you to Jann Weeratunga from South Africa who is our guest on this episode. Jann was born and grew up in Lundon. After working as a highway maintenance engineer for 10 years she moved to Sri Lanka where she married and lived for several years. Her husband passed away after they were married for four and a half years, but Jann continued to work and live there until she got the moving urge and ended up living in South Africa.   Jann has always had a deep interest in the para-Olympics. In 2012, while watching the closing ceremony of the London Paralympic Games, Jann was deeply moved by Sir Philip Craven's speech which included The tale of a young boy reading a book and recognizing a man with an eye patch, a hook for a hand, a parrot on his shoulder, and a wooden leg as an Olympian. This imagery sparked a transformative idea within her. Anyone recognize the man as a pirate? Jann did and began to write what is now a series of 10 children's books about Polly the Parrot or Pirate. Jann will tell us Polly's story and how this bird helped to create the Piralympics. This series is all about pirates, all of whom have disabilities and who compete in the “piralympics”.   To date, Jann has written over 40 books for children, some poetry and even books for adults. As she says, writing is a muscle that needs to be developed and exercised daily. This conversation to me is certainly quite inspirational and insightful for all. I hope you enjoy it.   About the Guest:   Jann Weeratunga is an author who firmly believes in the importance of representation and diversity, particularly for the 15% of the population who are often overlooked— the disabled community. In 2012, while watching the closing ceremony of the London Paralympic Games, Jann was deeply moved by Sir Philip Craven's speech. The tale of a young boy reading a book and recognizing a man with an eye patch, a hook for a hand, a parrot on his shoulder, and a wooden leg as an Olympian sparked a transformative idea within her. This powerful moment gave birth to the unique concept and content of the Polly's Piralympics Series (Paralympics for Pirates). Through these books, Jann tackles important themes like disabilities, bullying, and cheating.   However, plagued by self-doubt, Jann's journey faced a roadblock until 2016, when a friend who pushed her to take a leap of faith, reminding her that she would never know unless she published her work. This encouragement marked the beginning of her real journey as an author and Polly's Piralympics was launched in South Africa.   Jann's flagship series, Polly's Piralympics, has garnered tremendous success and continues to thrive, with the tenth book currently in the works. In March 2018, she established the Schools Reading Road Show, a non-profit organization aimed at enhancing literacy among primary school students in South Africa. Alongside her fellow authors, she embarked on a mission to visit schools in various regions, sharing inspiring stories, delivering motivational talks on important topics like "anti-bullying" and "it's okay to be different," and encouraging young learners to explore their own storytelling abilities.   Beyond her writing, Jann founded the Schools Reading Road Show, an organization that promotes literacy and encourages young learners to embrace diversity. She has visited schools, delivered motivational talks, and empowered children to tell their own stories.   Jann's impactful work extends to addressing conferences, conducting workshops, and participating in panels, all aimed at emphasizing the importance of representation and inclusivity. She continues to write Best Seller stories for children, while exploring different creative avenues for adults under her pen name, JE Gallery.   Her works have received several awards and nominations across Africa.   Recognized for her invaluable contributions to the literary landscape, Jann has spoken at the prestigious Embrace Head Teachers Conference in 2018 and 2019. She has also conducted workshops on the significance of reading for young adult pupils, participated in panels at esteemed events such as the JBBF (Jozi Books and Blogs Festival), South African Children's Book Fair, and Kingsmead Book Fair.   In 2020 on the eve of Lockdown, she organised and ran the Bennies Book Fayre for Children. The largest Children's Book fair for children in South Africa. To Date in 2023 she has attended the Zintzomi Storytelling Book Fair and The Johannesburg Festival of Women Writers.   Even amidst the challenges posed by the Covid-19 pandemic, Jann found solace in her writing during the period of isolation. This time allowed her to focus on her craft, resulting in the release of her latest series, Patch's Pirate Pals. The first two books in the series, "Bluebird's New Ship" and "Redhair's Snot Cannonballs," achieved the remarkable feat of becoming Amazon Best Sellers in June and July 2022. ** ** Ways to connect with Jann:   https://www.facebook.com/JannWeeratunga    www.linkedin.com/in/jann-weeratunga-4aa852137   https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jann-Weeratunga/author/B07RPGCF61       About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, thanks for listening here on unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion diversity in the unexpected meet. Today, we get to travel to South Africa to talk with Jann Weeratunga. I hope I pronounced that reasonably right. And absolutely perfectly. Oh, great. I like to I like to try. Jann is an author. She's created a series around what she calls the piralympics. And we're going to talk about that. But she has a lot of other things to bring into the discussion as well. So I think we're going to have a lot of fun today. So Jann, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here with us.   Jann Weeratunga ** 02:05 Thank you, Michael. We're really glad to join you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:07 Well, why don't we start at I love to do with kind of learning a little bit about the earlier Jann growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Jann Weeratunga ** 02:16 Okay. I was born in London. I grew up in London, schooled in London. I eventually got married and moved out to Sri Lanka, hence my very peculiar surname. And I was out there for about 10 years, my husband passed away. And from there, I moved into the Middle East. I taught for a year there and then came over to South Africa, and I've been here for 17 years now.   Michael Hingson ** 02:49 Wow. What? What made you decide to go to South Africa? Well,   Jann Weeratunga ** 02:55 I was hoping it seemed like a good idea at the time. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it was after the tsunami I had. I'd spent two years working on the east coast of Sri Lanka, I set up my own NGO. And I met people from all over the world. And on one occasion, we'd actually been down the coast this way and driving back and the army stopped us and sort of said, Did you know that there's a tsunami warning? Why are you driving around and of course, where we had been, it had just been water and monkeys and us and that was about it. And in the car, there was myself, British, a friend who was from South Africa and another friend who was from Australia, and another friend who was from America. And it dawned on us, literally, as we were explaining who we were and where we were from, that we were four ladies from four different countries from four different continents. So yeah, it was it was a very different sort of thing. And from there I I made friends with them. And then one of them sort of said, Look, you know, would you like to come and visit South Africa? You know, I've I'm just finishing off here and my time is in Sri Lanka is finishing would you like to come visit? So I thought, Okay, why not? I've never been South Africa. And that's what brought me here.   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 Pretty, pretty interesting scenario all the way around on but you never thought that was going to happen. Did you   Jann Weeratunga ** 04:36 know I didn't. But, you know, life has a habit of sort of just taking you where it wants to. So yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 04:44 was good. So we're in South Africa, are you?   Jann Weeratunga ** 04:48 I'm actually in Johannesburg. So yeah, so inland about 1000 kilometers from the in gold country as they call it. eaglet and So yeah, I live up in Johannesburg.   Michael Hingson ** 05:03 So you, you have definitely moved around in the world. Have you been to America before?   Jann Weeratunga ** 05:10 I actually haven't. I sort of came out of Britain and turned left instead of turning right. And I never got to the States or Canada is actually one country I would love to go to. It's on my bucket list, along with Iceland and a few others. But yeah, I sort of got as far as as far east as Sri Lanka and as far as South and South Africa. So you know, all the bits in between there?   Michael Hingson ** 05:39 Well, I hope you do get to come to America. It's a it's a large country. fairly large physically, but certainly a lot of different cultures and different kinds of ways of life, depending on what state you're in, and, and so on everything from relatively new in California, which became a state in 1850, compared to some of the other states like Massachusetts, in the other colonies much earlier. And I love to travel around America to see the various different kinds of pupils, the different cultures that have all assimilated into this one really great country, which is, which is a lot of fun to do. And it's really enjoyable to to see the different states and everyone's a little bit different.   Jann Weeratunga ** 06:25 Okay, okay. Yeah, no, it's very big. I sort of looked at Washington State and thought that was a place I'd really like to go to, because it looks very green, and lots and lots of trees. So, you know, I'd like to travel around America if I get the opportunity. So you never know, hey, hey,   Michael Hingson ** 06:42 you never know. Well, I'm actually going to be in Washington State next month. So it'll be it'll be kind of find I've been there before and love going up to Washington. I love California as well. But I've enjoyed going to all 50 states now and just found a lot of wonderful stuff to see and do in all of those various states. So I can't complain a bit. I find it to be rich and, and exciting. But I've been to a number of countries. I have not been to England, I've been to Ireland, and I've been to New Zealand. And of course, I've been to Canada, and to the Netherlands. And in Japan and Korea, but I haven't really been to South Africa. I'd love to come and speak there some time. If the opportunity ever arises. I think it would be fun to do. And I've been to Israel. I went to Israel in August because I was there to be with accessibly for a week. And so again, I love going to a variety of different countries and experiencing and getting the chance to be a part of other cultures. So it's great. Well, so you went to college in England?   Jann Weeratunga ** 07:57 I sort of Yeah, I was a bit of a dropout. Yeah, it some. I passed with straight A's. My first two years and then I just decided, I don't know, I don't know what I decided. But I got a job. And I moved up very, very quickly, and I got paid way too much money. So I just decided that I wasn't going to go back to college.   Michael Hingson ** 08:24 What was your job?   Jann Weeratunga ** 08:27 I was actually a highway maintenance engineer. I actually built roads.   Michael Hingson ** 08:31 Wow. That's an interesting and different job. No, you enjoyed it.   Jann Weeratunga ** 08:39 I did actually it was your same thing. Two days on the trot, which was lovely. And I like sort of variation. I don't like sort of being stuck in an office. That's not really me. So yeah, I really I actually did, I really enjoyed it. And I worked with a great bunch of people. All men, I was the only woman I was the first woman into the department. So that was a little challenging to begin with. But they got used to me and yeah, and then eventually I left there to get married and go out to Sri Lanka.   Michael Hingson ** 09:13 So how long did you have that job? 10 years. Wow. So you you obviously did enjoy it?   Jann Weeratunga ** 09:20 Yeah, no, it was good.   Michael Hingson ** 09:22 So what do you do as a highway maintenance engineer?   Jann Weeratunga ** 09:25 Well, you basically dig up the road and relay it in in sort of very much layman's terms. I actually was responsible for a section of the a 40 which is the sort of London to Oxford road. I was responsible for a section of that. And yeah, just making sure that everything on it was working well. It was supposed to it was kept clean. The lights were on. The Galley pots were cleaned out, there were no potholes. At one point we even managed to put a new footbridge across it which was They're different. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:02 that's definitely a different thing to do. But certainly I can understand why that would be part of your job. Yeah, yeah. Then what took you to Sri Lanka.   Jann Weeratunga ** 10:14 Um, my best friend from school was actually Sri Lankan. And we'd gone there when I was when I literally just finished my A levels. And we went out there for a trip. She came over to Ireland to see what Ireland was like. And I went over to Sri Lanka with her, you know, the parents thought it was good, sort of cultural exchanges for us. And I really liked the country. And then sort of 1010 odd years later, I hadn't taken any holiday, I still run a scout troop. So every weekend that I had free and my suppose it holidays, whereas he spent scouting. And I just I got to the point, I was very, very tired. And I needed a break. And her dad actually said, Well, why don't you go back to Sri Lanka? You know, lots of people out there still. You kept in touch go out there. And I did. And then I met my husband and six months of chewing and froing. And eventually, we he popped the question, and we got married, and I moved out there.   Michael Hingson ** 11:21 I'm assuming your parents were okay with that.   Jann Weeratunga ** 11:24 The Not really. She was the other side of the world as far as they were. Yeah. And it was way too far away. But he made sure that every year I actually went back to the UK for, you know, I actually chose your Christmas. Because that's a very family orientated time for us. And unfortunately, he passed away after we'd been married about four and a half years. But I continue to stay out there for another six. The tsunami hit during that time. I also worked as the club secretary for what was at the time, the only the third golf course in the country rated in the top 10 in Southeast Asia, which was the Victoria golf club sat on struggling. So for Duncan golf union, which is actually where I was in 911. Yeah, I was actually at a golf meeting. And somebody said, Excuse me, I think you should all come and see the television. And we watched the plane. The second plane hit. So yeah, it's for those ones. We know exactly where you were in what you were doing. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:41 most, most people do. Most people do remember that. And I've heard so many fascinating and interesting stories about where people were or why they ended up not being in the tower that day, although they were scheduled to be and even up on higher floors. It is one of those amazing things and there's so many different stories. And a lot of people have stories to tell about it, which is pretty interesting.   Jann Weeratunga ** 13:08 Yeah. So the world stop moments a little bit like, I suppose, the shooting of JFK and, and of course, COVID More recently, you know, I think everybody knows where they were and what they were doing during COVID. Yeah, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 13:26 we stayed home. My wife had rheumatoid arthritis. And so her immune system was suppressed and she took medication for it that helped the pain, but it did keep the immune system down. So we chose without any qualms at all to stay home, and basically locked down. We were blessed. We could could get things brought in through things like GrubHub and other things like that. And I did my shopping or an our shopping through a service called Instacart. That would bring things and it worked out really well. And we live very close to a country club here in Spring Valley lake in Victorville. And we joined a social members of the club. And although they didn't deliver food, they had food available that you could go down and get, but we were friends with the general manager. And he said, anytime you want food, just call him we'll bring it and they were. So we were we were blessed. That   Jann Weeratunga ** 14:21 sounds really, really good. It's actually something it changed shopping, and how we shop in South Africa. Prior to COVID, everybody used to just go to the supermarket or go to the shops. And we didn't have any delivery services. It didn't exist in South Africa. And it's actually created a whole industry of young men on motorbikes that deliver and I know in the UK, they had deliveries, but it sort of, after about a year it fizzled out and people got back to going shopping, you know, whereas here It is carried on, and people still get their shopping delivered from the local supermarket with these little guys. It's good dude outside your house. And there they are. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:11 we have their word delivery services prior to prior to COVID. But it certainly did pick up a lot in COVID. And after COVID. And you're right, it's changed a lot of things. And we can view that as a positive thing or not. But I think overall, people are starting to discover, even with working that there's no need to be in the office five days a week, eight or more hours a day that it's healthier, to let people do some work at home, and do some of their work outside of the office.   Jann Weeratunga ** 15:49 Absolutely, absolutely. But I must admit, I think I saw more dogs being walked around my blog than I had ever seen. People tend not to take the dogs out too much. Yeah. They were very, very big plots, and the dogs run around on those. But of course, that was the only excuse we had initially to actually be able to leave our properties. So all the dogs had their little walkies on a regular basis every day. So that was quite interesting as well.   Michael Hingson ** 16:18 I've been to places in Europe and also talk to to other people who live there. And I guess it was fairly common, even well before COVID, to walk dogs and even see dogs go into stores or restaurants and so on. And it was a common thing. But the difference between there and here and correct me if I'm wrong. But the difference is that most all of those dogs were well behaved and they were controlled by their people.   Michael Hingson ** 16:51 Generally, yes, generally. And   Michael Hingson ** 16:54 unfortunately, here, people just think they should be able to take their dogs, whether they're well behaved or not. And all too often, we see that dogs are not as well behaved as they should be. That creates a problem for those of us who use dogs like guide, like I use our my guide dog Alamo as a guide dog who's trained. And then they tried to put restrictions and has put some restrictions on us, because of those other people that they wouldn't really just deal with them appropriately. So it is it is a challenge. Yeah,   Jann Weeratunga ** 17:25 no, I know, from obviously the UK and Ireland, because my mum's from Ireland, that, you know, taking the dogs out for a walk is commonplace. I mean, dad would always take the dog for a walk around the block at night, just you know, before we went to bed. And it was my brother and my job to sort of walk the dog down to the park and give them a good run during the day. So I think you know, so walking dogs, it was it was it was good, actually, because it's a good form of exercise as well. And, you know, I mean, I would often sort of pop the dog into the car, drive up to the forest and go for a walk for two to three hours, you know, and then come back with a very tired dog. So yeah, well, that's   Michael Hingson ** 18:07 that's a good thing. Yeah. And sometimes attire, Jann, but but still, that's probably.   Jann Weeratunga ** 18:14 Yeah, I wasn't bad. In those days. It was bit younger. But the Yeah. Well, I   Michael Hingson ** 18:20 know one of the things about you is that you, you write you're an author, when did you start writing?   Jann Weeratunga ** 18:25 I think I've always had an interest in poetry, and sort of wrote little details here and that sort of thing. But it was more or less when I came to South Africa, we owned a restaurant down in Nisa, which is on the coast, in very beautiful part of the country is just above the sort of Jitsi, karma, forest area. And I actually lived in a wooden cabin in the forest, where I didn't spend much time there because I actually spent sort of like, six and a half days at the restaurant running it. But when I had spare time, I would actually just sort of sit on the deck. And just let my mind wander. And I started with the poetry. And then I started writing in seriously children's stories in 2012, which was the start of the Paralympics.   Michael Hingson ** 19:27 So love to hear more about that. What got you started doing that? And well, let me ask first, did you publish any of your poetry?   Jann Weeratunga ** 19:38 Would you believe I actually only published my poetry last year? And that was because some friends had basically seen some of the poems and sort of said, Why haven't you published the and I think it's the difference between being judged by your peers and being judged by children. So so most of them My writing is actually for children. But my poetry is obviously for adults. And funnily enough, I actually took a couple of books with me, I went back to the UK in May to see my family. And I took a couple of books, and gave them as gifts to friends. And they actually sort of said, well, would you read a couple of poems for us, and so I read a couple of them, and they were in tears. And I didn't think my poetry would have that much of an effect on people. So it was quite an eye opener for me. The other adult work I've done is I actually write adult short stories, dark stories, unfortunately. I know a couple of other authors that do the same. They write poetry, children's books, and dark, short stories. And I think it's a release from writing children's stuff all the time is to write sort of the dark adult stuff. But I've actually not that I'm not public, I've got two books ready to go. They've been sitting there for a couple of years. And, and yeah, and there's just a block there that the   Michael Hingson ** 21:10 public, are they going to be dark?   Jann Weeratunga ** 21:14 They are dark, all the short stories are very dark. And yes, but they're there. I mean, one of one of them is actually a monologue, for example of a character who has schizophrenia. And so they're obviously talking to themselves. And they're on a plane. They I say they because it was it's one person is on a plane, and the quieter voice of the two has actually arranged to be euthanized in Switzerland, which is legal. Without the other one, knowing what the other side of the venue knowing. And it's this, this monologue, and that's all it is, is this conversation the whole way through the story. And a few people that have read it have been, I think, quite shocked, because it's not the sort of usual happy clappy stuff that I wrote for kids. Yeah. And they were saying, Okay, well, when is it publishing? Have you got any more? And can we read it? So sorry about that thing? I can't stop that.   Michael Hingson ** 22:26 Look at JK Rowling. You know, she wrote the Harry Potter series, and now she's writing the Cormoran Strike series. And I don't know that I would say they're, they're darker, although I think the last Harry Potter book that she wrote was, was darker than the others. But she clearly throughout both series is a mystery writer. Because in one real sense, Harry Potter is all about mystery is being a mystery. Just the various things that go through it.   Jann Weeratunga ** 22:58 Yeah, I think the interesting thing with her work is the fact that it sort of it crossed genres. Yeah. And it was the first of all really strong, young adult series that came out really strong. And I think it defined it defined that that genre completely, you know, all those that don't know, young adult is basically stories that don't contain sex, or explicit violence as in blood, guts and gore type of thing. So So, and it's actually turned out to be a very popular genre, because a lot of people, they don't necessarily want that. But they want a good story, they will, you know, they don't want to read children's stories. They want to read adult stories, but they don't want that side of it. So it's quite interesting how it's developed.   Michael Hingson ** 23:58 Well, I will say any number of adults like them, too. I would love to, I would love to see more Harry Potter books. But there is a new series that's written by an American about one of his sons, James Potter, and five books have come out in that series, and they're pretty good. And again, there's some good mysteries in them. Well, so what got you started writing children's books and the pirate Olympics and so on. I'd love to hear that story.   Jann Weeratunga ** 24:30 Okay, I have always loved watching the Paralympics more than the Olympics. Right from a very young child. I was glued to the TV for the Paralympics. And 12 was the London Olympics, which I personally feel changed people's views towards disabilities in general. I think was a big leap forward for the disabled community at that particular point. But for me personally, it was, so Philip Craven, who's paraplegic himself was giving the closing speech. And he was chatting away and sort of saying, you know, there was this mother with her son, and they were reading a book. And in the book, there was a character and he had a patch over one eye, a hook for a hand, and a wooden leg. And the mother turned around and she said to the boy, my boy, who's this? And he said, Well, he's got one eye, one arm, one leg, he must be a Paralympian. And it was like one of those light bulb moments you get you know, you you don't think they exist. But it but actually it really did exist for me. And I suddenly thought, hang on a minute. Because he was talking about the pirates in Treasure Island. I thought pirates, Paralympics. Hang on a minute. There's something here. So I googled, and I Googled, and there was nothing, nobody had written anything. There was no parallel drawn between pirates and Paralympics. So I started. I spoke to a friend and they and I said, Well, there's nothing out there. Why is nobody written this story, you know? And they said, Well, why don't you write that story? So I did. And then I sat on it. Again, I think fear of failure as much as anything else fear of judgment. Being a bit dyslexic, it's sort of, I got really knocked by my English teacher at school. And so I lacked the confidence to actually pump in a publicize something. So or publish something. So I sat on it until 2016. And of course, the Olympics was round again. And the Paralympics were around again. And I found her and said, Come on your book. Enough now it's got to go out. And so I did I put the first one out and it was very well received and I had a couple of very very young readers that read it me young eight year old turned around to me and said, is Polly real? A Poly is a parrot that was born with one I stolen from her nest in Africa, ends up in Scotland where she's rescued by Captain hiker pirate and she learns to become a pirate. And and so I turned around, and it's a little bit like those sort of questions about you know, is Father Christmas or Santa Claus real. And you never burst a child's bubble. You never ever, in my, that's my rules. You never destroy childhood. You allow a child to be a child for as long as they need to be. And so I chatted to him and I said, How many parents are there in the world? And he said, Ah, auntie, there must be millions. I said yes, because over here they everyday call everybody Auntie's. If you go into a school, they'll call you and your listing they call your auntie, or uncle. And then I said, and do you think any of them are called Polly? He sat down for a moment, he said, I reckon there must be I said, Well, there you go. You've answered your own question, haven't you? So that was how Polly was created. And Polly creates the the Paralympics and they get up to all sorts of things, but they like made me realize Hang on. I mean, I need to actually do a little bit of a backstory here as to the story about Polly is the first one I wrote was just all about the sort of the actual games themselves you know, there's a master chef competition and there's a walk the plank and this time, the rigging gymnastics and what have you. And then I wrote the backstory, which was how they discovered the prosthetics. So my parents have blades and racing wheelchairs and prosthetic hands. And yeah, they they get up to all sorts of antics and lots of fun. So   Michael Hingson ** 29:26 you do you publish your own books, or do you have a publisher?   Jann Weeratunga ** 29:33 For these this set, I published my own books. I had a publisher for a book I wrote. I actually headed up during lockdown. I had it up nosology called locked down behind the mask. So I had a publisher that because for me, when everybody was wearing masks, it reminded me of when I lived in the Middle East and the burqa, and all you would see is the lady's eyes. So I had a publisher for that one. But otherwise I self published. So they all went up on Amazon. I'm on the 10th. One at the moment. The Halloween Paralympics is finished, but that won't be out until next year. So there'll be two others come out before that one, so, but there's seven on Amazon at the moment.   Michael Hingson ** 30:27 So you'll have a ghost pack, you'll have a ghost pirate.   Jann Weeratunga ** 30:31 There is a ghost pirates. Yes, they actually meet, they meet Captain Blackbeard and his ghostly crew. And they have to fight their way off his ship with the map, which is the map that takes them to the treasure, which, of course treasure is in the eye of the beholder. And that is their prosthetics.   Michael Hingson ** 30:50 That sounds like fun. Have you? Have you made sure that or have you done anything to make sure that the books are accessible? Like for blind people to be able to read? Are they? Are they put out in an accessible form like that at all? Do you know? At   Jann Weeratunga ** 31:09 the moment? No. I did have a gentleman that was with the Braille organization in Australia that wanted to actually have them, I suppose you call it translated it into Braille? And unfortunately, he never came back to me. So at the moment, no, I don't I don't have them on audio, audio is very expensive to do. And when I have so many books, because I'm actually up, I think I've been I've got over 40 children's books. So you know, when you're sort of producing a lot of books, it's sort of keeping up with them. And when you don't have a publisher, you have to do everything yourself. So you have to pay for the illustrations, you have to pay for the editing, you have to pay for the proofreading that cover everything that goes into a book, and it's quite costly. So the additional cost of an audiobook is not not something I've yet been able to manage. But I'm still hopeful. So yeah, I'll see what happens with that.   Michael Hingson ** 32:19 You might explore something like in this country, there's the National Library Service for   Michael Hingson ** 32:27 blinding and well print handicapped, essentially, Vegas, originally National Library Service of the blind, physically handicapped, but it goes beyond that. Anyway, they oftentimes will take books that they think people will read or that are popular, and they will produce them. And the reason they will do that is that they are protected under copyright law. So they are only available for people who have some sort of print disability. But still, that's a pretty good circulation. And what prompted me to ask the question was that I would think that people with disabilities could benefit from what you have to say as much as others do.   Jann Weeratunga ** 33:13 Yeah, I mean, for me, it's especially children. I went into a school here, recall, and they have, it's very, it's a mixed school. So they have children with physical disabilities. Unfortunately, not blind children simply because the layout of the school is too dangerous for the kids to be able to navigate. But juggle, there was one young girl, for example, had a prosthetic leg. And I remember going in, and I gave a number of books into the school, and I did a whole day chatting to the kids about disabilities. Because I believe very much about educating young people. And I think, I mean, chatting to you, for me is a real privilege. Because I think very often, by the time we're adults, we're too embarrassed or nervous to ask questions. And because we don't ask questions, we tend to avoid talking to somebody with a disability. And the children don't have that same barrier. You know, that they don't see color. They don't see disability. When I describe it a little bit like you know, being inside the box looking out as opposed to adults who are outside the box looking in. And I very much believe that if we can have young people able bodied as well as disabled reading books were characters have disabilities and I mean, as you my books are a complete flip in in many ways. So the norm because most of my characters have disabilities As Of course, they're pirates. So they've got something missing or they're blind, or they're deaf or whatever. So I've probably got about 80% of my characters that are actually disabled. Whereas most books may be, you might get 10% If you're lucky. So for me, it's important because young people, then able bodied and disabled can can read these books. And this particular young young lady I was talking to you about, I was invited back to the school about six weeks later. And she saw me across the car at the car park, and she came for flying over. And she flow her arms around me. And she said, auntie, auntie, thank you for writing that book for me. And I had this most enormous lump in my throat, that seems to be there for five minutes, I'm sure it was just only there for maybe five or 10 seconds before I could get, you know, regain my composure, because it had meant so much for her to be able to identify with other characters in the book, you know. So I think it's very important that these stories are available to young people, as I say, both able bodied and disabled, because I think it gives an understanding, I think it gives an empathy and an education to both.   Michael Hingson ** 36:29 You not only does it I absolutely agree it, it does. And that's again, one of the reasons I asked about audio or more another accessible version, I would, would think that   Michael Hingson ** 36:47 some people may shoot me for it. But with AI today, the so called artificial intelligence and the number of voices that are out there, that there ought to be some ways to convert the books relatively easily by comparison to even five years ago to audio, and then publish them. And   Jann Weeratunga ** 37:09 I did actually purchase a program that I can't remember the name of it now, because I'm not techie minded, but I was advised that that was the best fit at the time. But it's it sounds so mechanical. Yeah. It still didn't, it didn't flow and the emphasis wasn't on the words. Right, what I felt the emphasis should be if you know what I mean. So I do, I have actually recorded I'm very lucky, I do some work with a local school here, I actually scribe for for some of the boys. And they allow me to use their music rooms, which are all sort of, you know, soundproof. So I've actually recorded some myself, I've got one of the books is actually up on YouTube. That's the first of the poly books, and it's up in four sections. But the whole book is actually actually up there. And that's how Polly became a pirate. So I have actually sort of started this myself. And I've done it sort of through the YouTube roots. But yeah, there have   Michael Hingson ** 38:18 been so many great strides in voice technology. And so on that that even in six months, it might be a lot better. I don't know, I've seen some some discussions where I think there might be some some good voice, artificial voice things that are a lot better. But certainly if you can do it, that would make a lot more sense to do by any standard.   Jann Weeratunga ** 38:44 Yeah, yeah. Let's say and I quite enjoy reading my own stories as well to two kids. So it's, it's something I enjoy doing as well.   Michael Hingson ** 38:54 There are now some programs that can take your voice and create unlimited vocabulary speech. If it has enough of your voice to learn from how do we find your books? While you're one book on YouTube? Let me ask that.   Jann Weeratunga ** 39:14 Row. I think basically, you just go January Tonga, YouTube, and it will come up. Okay. How Polycom virus Yeah, I think I   Michael Hingson ** 39:23 look for it. I have to go look for it. I want to read about Polly   Jann Weeratunga ** 39:29 Okey doke. Good. So   Michael Hingson ** 39:31 is writing kind of full time job for you? Or do you have other work that you do to help income or what?   Jann Weeratunga ** 39:38 No writing is my full time job. That is what I do. I love writing for kids. It's a real I think it's a passion. You know, you either love it or you just don't go near it. And prior to COVID I used to be in schools two, three times a week. I was always is in a school somewhere up here. I even did a tour down on the Eastern Cape and took a couple of other authors with me. So, yeah, it's, it's become literally full time. And at the moment I'm putting out a book roughly one book a month? Well, I   Michael Hingson ** 40:19 think I think it's really important that your books, get out there and get visible. And so since it is your full time job, I'm assuming that you do write every day.   Jann Weeratunga ** 40:33 I pretty well write five days a week, I tried to just have a bit of time off at the weekends, sort of family time, but Monday to Friday. The house is quiet by six o'clock, everybody else's. So I actually sit then, and I write usually to that too. And then whatever sort of household bits and pieces need to be sorted out or shopping or whatever, whatever gets done in the afternoon, so but yeah, I put a good six hours in and it's a bit like people that do physical exercise, you know, you build up your muscles, and is a sort of, I believe it's like building up your mental muscles. You know, the more you write. I mean, I picked up, Polly, I haven't written Polly for quite a long time actually. I wrote a younger series, because a lot of people came to me and said, can't Can't you write a pirate series for younger children as well. So I had the patches pirate pals. And for a year, we literally put out a book a month, or 12 books out there on that series No, like on? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 41:44 Are those books, oh,   Jann Weeratunga ** 41:46 they're all short little 32, page eight by 10 inches by 10. But those ones, I've actually left the illustrations to be colored in by the kids because I feel, especially with boys, they tend to be a bit more than sort of reluctant readers and you hear coloring in it sort of attaches them to the book, and they gain a bit more of an interest in the book. And from that you gain an interest in the words and the story, etc, etc. So that whole series was like that. I've just produced one from my niece. She's three in two weeks time. And she actually was my my illustrating editor, he saw the pictures and either like them or didn't, which was quite interesting. So my poor illustrator had to redo a couple. And I'd given her a toy dinosaur Bronwyn, the dinosaur. And my sister said to me at one point, you can't see anything except purple because Bronwyn eating the phone. And that was because I've sent the picture of Bronwyn, for my niece to approve. And so she was actually using the dinosaur to kiss the phone to those he liked it. So yeah. So but that one's a mixture of color, color and drawing. And so there is a color picture. And an opposite is the same picture just as an outline. And the kids can either use the same colors or their own imaginations. And I believe very much in that as well. I think it's very important that young people use their imaginations, you know, things have changed from from when we were children. You know, when we were kids, we would play outside, we would, you know, almost have fights with brothers or sisters or mock fights or, you know, we played cowboys and Indians or whatever it was we were doing, we do it. And we maybe would watch television for an hour in the evening, sort of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. Weekends was always sports. So that was dad's time type of thing. But today, it's changed. And we didn't have computers, we didn't have smart telephones, we didn't have any of those things. You know, we used to sit there and do this huge Jigsaw which was four foot by four foot square, on our dining room table, you know, every evening was in pieces in type of thing. But today, it's changed. And I think young kids are in a way missing out and missing out on the opportunity to expand their imaginations because so much is spoon fed to them. So much as you know, Google is wonderful. I fall down the rabbit hole with Google all the time when I'm researching my books. And some of the stuff I come I find is just absolutely mind blowing. But it gives you everything. And I think with young people, if they're given too much, they don't use their imaginations that so that's one of the reasons why I like to. I've, I've created I've actually created two journals. which a guided journal is for very young children to start journaling, you know, so it sort of helps them guide them through. And that's actually part of the practice part ELS series, which is really aimed at sort of four to seven year olds, they're very young ones, maybe up to nine, depending on, you know, ability levels. But it's getting them to use their imagination, to write their story, their poem, draw their drawing, or coloring with the colors that they want to use. And if they want to give somebody green hair, that's fine. They know what color hair is. But let them use their imagination. Let them be creative.   Michael Hingson ** 45:42 We don't do nearly enough of that. And I absolutely agree with you. The the problem with so much television is that everything is just for store, everything is there, there's no imagination. It didn't used to be that way. Even in television, of course, early in televisions era, there was, it was an issue where you had both television and radio. And so people were were used to helping individuals use their imagination. But the longer television has gone on, the more we just put everything out there and there's nothing left for a person's imagination. I collect old radio shows as a hobby, and I love listening to old shows, because they still make you use your imagination. And even now, there are new series. And again, people have to use their imagination and fill in a lot of blanks that are deliberately left and can't be there because there are no pictures to look at. So you've got to do it. And I think television should do more of that.   Jann Weeratunga ** 46:52 Yeah. And books as well. I mean, I think books are wonderful. You know, when I go into in schools, and I open the book, and I say to the children, right, what am I doing? And I'm literally I'm standing there and I'm opening a book, okay? And they say you're opening a book? And I say, Yes, but what else am I doing? And they look puzzled. And I said, I'm opening up the pages to your imagination. And then what is imagination? What is it? And I remember one youngster gave a wonderful definition that it's like dreaming, but your eyes are open. But the story is in your head, and you can see it like a film, attitude. And I thought that is exactly it. Because I know, when I write my books, when I'm writing about Polly, especially Polly, Polly has a very she's very special. Polly and my parents are very special. They, that's my comfortable place. Whenever I go back to Holly. And I can see her, I can hear she's almost talking in my ear. When I'm writing her. It's a weird sort of relationship that I think a writer has with their characters. But she's so real for me. It's almost like she's speaking. And I'm just using my hands to write the words if that makes any sense. Yeah. So it's, it's wonderful. From my point of view, because I can just let my imagination go all over the place, you know. And then when you actually are reading the story, and you watch the kids faces, it is so special. Because you can see, they can see it in their heads. They can take their imagination, they can see the pictures, like a little film, you know? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 49:05 Well and and that's the way imagination should be now, here's a question does skip and where Polly ended up does Polly have a Scottish accent? Sort of   Jann Weeratunga ** 49:17 weird actually. And he definitely has a Scottish accent. And all of his crew do. He has a cruiser quite there's nine crews and they each have quite definitive accent so the the Caribbean Jamaican crew has very Caribbean the turbaned Indians very much the cowboy Americans very much with an American lil. So each each crew I've actually given their own voice, which is important because it also brings diversity for the kids to understand the world is quite a big place that we live in. So we've got tattooed Maori And we've got Scandinavians, we've got Scots, we've got Zulus, we've got Greek goddesses, we, you know, we've got the the Japanese ninjas, you know, there's all these different crews that are very different. But they all belong to the fellowship of pirates, right?   Michael Hingson ** 50:21 That's really the issue, isn't it?   Jann Weeratunga ** 50:24 Yeah. Yeah. You know, what am I realize we're actually all the same, we all want the same things.   Michael Hingson ** 50:31 One of the things that I talked about, on the podcast, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it today, because people hear it enough. But you talked about able bodied and disabled people, I work to try to get people to understand that disability doesn't mean and I know you're saying somewhat the same thing. disability does not mean a lack of ability. Disability is a characteristic. And I would submit that everyone has a disability, everyone in the world. And for most of you, as I tell people, it's like dependents, you know, when the lights go out, and you don't have an iPhone, or a smartphone of any sort, or a flashlight nearby, you're in a world of hurt, because you can't see what you're doing. So I submit that we need to get away from making a distinction between so called Able bodied and persons with disabilities, because everyone has one. And what we really need to do is to recognize that disability is a characteristic, and it manifests itself in different ways. Yeah,   Jann Weeratunga ** 51:32 yeah. 100% 100%. I mean, it's even down to one, you might disagree with me on this. But if all you've ever wanted to do is ride a bicycle, and you have no sense of balance, and you cannot ride a bicycle, you are effectively disabled. You are disabled from being able to ride a bicycle. Now, people argument they know that that's not really a proper disability. Sure,   Michael Hingson ** 52:03 it is. It's a it's a characteristic.   Jann Weeratunga ** 52:06 Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's, I think you and I are very much on the same page for this. And I know we had a little chat for a few months about that back end. Back   Michael Hingson ** 52:17 in the day. Yeah, it's been a while.   Jann Weeratunga ** 52:21 Yeah, we touched on it. But But But I agree 100% I think we all have a disability. But one of the things I do say is disability does not mean inability, correct.   Michael Hingson ** 52:33 It does not mean a lack of ability, it just means you have something.   Jann Weeratunga ** 52:39 Yes. And I think each each gift is different. And it makes us see the world in a different way. So for example, because I have dyslexia, I have to work a little bit harder. With my writing. There's nothing wrong with my grammar, there's nothing wrong with the my my word order, or the words I use, until I try and type them and then very often they can come out backwards, or I mean to this day, if I type the word, the, I can guarantee guarantee 90% of the time, it comes out HTTP II. Okay, and that's, and my fingers know what they should be doing. To this date, they know what they should be doing. But   Michael Hingson ** 53:29 they know what you want them to do, but they have their mind of their own.   Jann Weeratunga ** 53:33 They do return. So bit of what I'm trying to say there is that, you know, disability, if you if you look at the figures as such, they say that between 20 and 25% of the world is disabled. Those are the disabilities that can be measured. The other 75% they also have disabilities, they just don't admit to it. Right, exactly right. And now the stigmas that are attached to disability. And again, that's why inside the box looking out outside the box looking in, which starts for me with children, because if you are a child inside the box with others use you just as I said earlier, kids don't see disability, they're just friends, right? They all get on with each other. And if somebody can't do something, they'll help them or if they won't help them, they'll believe them or whatever. But the kids will learn to stand up for themselves. And they will get through that   Michael Hingson ** 54:30 until adults until adults get in the way.   Jann Weeratunga ** 54:33 And so the adults get in the way Exactly. But But what I'm saying is when that group of children become adults, and that's where we haven't got that that's why I believe we haven't got to yet. We're getting there but it's not got there yet. When that group of children become adults, because they've grown up with a whole range of people, different races, different colors, different abilities. It's just normal, it's what's around them. Whereas at the moment, we're having to constantly play catch up. And we're having to put into companies and businesses, the the structures for people with disabilities to be able to go to work.   Michael Hingson ** 55:23 As long as those,   Jann Weeratunga ** 55:25 it will just automatically be there. Because those are going to be the new bosses,   Michael Hingson ** 55:30 as long as they don't forget. As long as they don't forget.   Jann Weeratunga ** 55:35 But that's if we don't interfere. Right.   Michael Hingson ** 55:41 So when is Polly going to be in a movie?   Jann Weeratunga ** 55:46 Oh, my goodness, the big question. Yes, I've actually finally sorted out my pitch. And that's taken a long time. And I've actually a gentleman called Steve Longley. He has been my fairy godfather. He produced Hacksaw Ridge, which is a slightly different type of movie to what we're probably going to be. But he's been a real mentor. And that's why I'm giving you a little bit of a shout out to him, because he doesn't have to help me. He doesn't know me from a bar. So I introduced myself on LinkedIn to him one day, which is, of course, how I met met Sheldon and through Sheldon, you. And he, he's given me so much confidence. So my pictures ready. I'm helping a friend launch their book tomorrow, which has taken up most of the last two weeks. And once that's done, I'm actually going to be going out to producers and directors to see if I will hook somebody that will actually produce it. Because to me, it's important. And I think whether it becomes a TV series or a movie, I don't mind, it probably lends itself more to animation, simply because so many of the characters have disabilities. And I think the insurance for that, in real life would would go through the roof on a movie set? I don't know, but I think so. But it leads me on also to something again, that we touched on before. And that was basically when we were talking about actors, disabled actors. And at the moment most most actors sort of literally have a wheel on reel off for a walk on walk off part. There are no real central characters based around disability or very, very few very emerge now. There's one or two sort of characters that are, you know, building up or what have you. But one of the things I've been advocating for is, why can't disabled actors do voiceovers and dubbing there's nothing stopping them to do those doing those things. We need   Michael Hingson ** 57:56 to we need to talk offline about some of that because there's an organization called Radio enthusiast of Puget Sound and a whole group of people who are blind. And the president of that organization also is the lead in a radio Well, internet radio stations called yesterday usa.net. And there's a red network in a blue network, like there is on a piece on NBC in the golden days of radio. And there actually is some work being done to try to create some programs to encourage blind people to go into doing more audio type stuff. So we should talk about that offline.   Jann Weeratunga ** 58:39 I think so. I think so. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 58:43 Speaking of Washington, that's what we're going to do next month is go up and do for radio show recreations. And I and some other blind people and non blind people are all going to be parts of the show. Now   Jann Weeratunga ** 58:54 that's so cool. It's so cool. I've got a friend here, Lois. And she's just done an art exhibition. And I found it. It was a concept that I found quite difficult to get my mind around, obviously. You know, how can somebody who's blind do an art exhibition, but she's actually working with a group of people down in Cape Town, a group of blind students found in Cape Town, and some have maybe 10% site up to they have just a little bit but not very much, you know, and they're doing amazing, amazing work and I and I think just bringing more of this it needs to be funded, it needs to be supported. I mean, South Africa there's no funding for anything. We don't have electricity most of the time internet sometimes and water when they feel like it. But, but but, you know, in Western countries where there is a little bit more money, I think these things need to be fun. Need more supported a lot more than they are? And I suppose, unless we started up and start shouting, it won't happen. And so that's one of the reasons why I want to see my pirates and poly made into either a film or set of films or a TV series. Again, because it's something that everybody can enjoy. Maybe   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:23 well, Todd, what can I do? Sorry? Maybe we also want to explore making it into an audio series. Hmm,   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:00:34 I think so. I think so. Yeah, definitely.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:37 How do we increase the conversation around disabilities and get people? I know, you've talked about one way as children grow up, but what else can we do as adults to break through some of those barriers and get the conversation? more a part of the mainstream?   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:00:59 Oh, gosh. Well, I think number one, we have to identify the problems. And I think the main problems are and I'm going to talk about disability disabled and able bodied, if you will, just sort of entertain me on that. The more able bodied, shall we say? folk out there feel awkward talking to people with disabilities, they will shun away from speaking to somebody with a disability, they will avoid going to help somebody with a disability. And I think it's just such a stigma. And it's not the disabled person. I don't think it's the individual. It's just the whole sphere of disabilities. And I, I've watched LinkedIn recently, and there's a lot more out there and a lot more stories coming out. And I think I think that's a really good thing. And I think things like I know, the Paralympics does focus on the physical, and the Disabilities is a lot more than that. I mean, people in wheelchairs are only 8% of those with disabilities. Yeah, what is the symbol that we use for the disabled? It's, it's a word character in a wheelchair. Right. Yeah. You know, so. And I know there is a movement towards possibly changing that. I don't know how why is that is, in the sense that I understand why, but at least is recognized as a symbol for disabled. You know, there's pros and cons around everything. Yeah. And I think I think we just have to talk more, I think there needs to be, I think, all right, I think people are frightened. It's like when I first spoke with Lois, because I think she was the first blind person I spoke with. And I said, Louis, can I ask you a question? Should you ask me anything? But I thought I had actually say, may I ask you the question? Because I felt awkward. I didn't want to cause offence. I didn't want to be rude. I didn't want to say something that will upset. And I think that's part of it. With a lot of people. And we have to get over it. We have and I think that's what Sheldon did that for me. Actually, he was wonderful. We had an hour long chit chat. And I was chatting to him about how to use some of the analytics in LinkedIn and stuff as well, you know, stuff he had, and been able to do, and what have you. And it was so nice, because I felt so much more comfortable at the end of the conversation than obviously, I had at the start of the conversation. And I think just the more able bodied people, a person is, they just need to get over it. They just need to start talking to people. But it's our and it's hard. And that's why I go back to kids because I think, you know, to a degree we have to start with young people and educate them and bring them through the system. But then what do we do with all of us old is sitting at the top end.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:20 But the awkwardness is more of a learned behavior than anything else. We we don't like to think that just because someone is different than us. They're necessarily at the same level we are. And we we grow up learning that which is in part why I said I hoped that children today don't forget as they grow up, because it's a learned behavior. And you're right. It's great to start with children, and the more children get to be involved in the conversation and carry on the conversation. and don't have the fear, the better it is, oh,   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:05:03 well, I'll give you an example on something. My niece, as I mentioned earlier is going to be three. One of the things my sister did with her, when for about six months on, she taught her how to sign. Now my niece isn't there. But there's a movement in the UK to teach babies to sign. Because they can sign I'm hungry, I'm full. I would like more. And, you know, I mean, there's obviously a lot more signs than those, I've just taken three, the very basic ones, they can do that six to eight months before they can speak up. So they can communicate on a level to express themselves, which also reduces frustration, and anger. And I'm actually trying to learn there's a guy called the Deaf chef on Instagram, and I'm following him. And every day, he comes out with a new sign. And I've been trying to learn some of those number one, so I can keep up with my knees and get better at styling than I am. But also, sign language actually just became 12 official language in South Africa. And I went to a restaurant one day, and there was a lady there. And I asked her a question, and then she sort of put her hand to it yet and said, you know, yeah, basically, you know, was was telling me she was deaf. So I wrote it down, because I couldn't sign. But the only thing I had looked say was, thank you. So at the end of the conversation, I actually just gave the sign of Thank you. And her face just lit up. It was the only thing I knew how to do. But have it made her day. You know? And and I just think that we we need to all make more of an effort, I suppose. And I think things like, Why can't say why can't we have sign language in schools? You know, over here, we have 11 languages, and they're all taught in school. So why can't we have some language taught and useful? The more we communicate, the more we talk to each other. The more I think barriers will come down. And we've got to get over this stigma of disability. And again, it's that word, isn't it? disability?   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:25 And only YouTube anytime we need to learn it doesn't mean Yeah, because it's not a lack of ability.   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:07:30 Exactly.   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:33 If people want to reach out to you and learn more about you, how do they do that?   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:07:38 Okay, so they can they can email me. And I've actually, I think I've given you some of my links. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:48 we'll go ahead and spell out email if you want to or whatever. Go ahead and say it here as well, please. Okay,   Jann Weeratunga ** 1:07:54 what is quite a complicated kind of fortunately, but it's, it's, well, I'll give you my easy one. I've got one which is Jann Weeratunga, which is? No, maybe that's not the easier one. I think they'll probably is. It's J a n S Jans, Pics P i C S. SA for South africa@gmail.com. Jan's pics SA for South Africa,   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:21 at Gmail. com. That's pretty easy. Great. Well, I want to thank you for being here. And we will be putting the book covers and all the other things up in the cover notes. And I hope people will reach out this has clearly been fun and fascinating. And I want to continue our discussions later offline. We got to do some

A shocking revelation has rocked Riverside, California, as a local pastor stands accused of orchestrating a murder-for-hire plot against his daughter's boyfriend. Samuel Pasillas, 47, from Victorville, was arrested last week on a slew of charges, including solicitation for murder and attempted murder, after reportedly paying $40,000 to have the boyfriend killed, according to a press release from the Riverside city government. Pasillas' arrest follows a meticulous investigation launched by authorities in October, triggered by a chilling incident where the boyfriend arrived at a local hospital with gunshot wounds. Recounting the harrowing ordeal, the victim claimed he had been ambushed while driving, with a vehicle pulling up alongside and opening fire. However, as detectives delved deeper into the case, they unraveled a disturbing truth—a sinister "murder-for-hire" scheme masterminded by Pasillas. According to the city's press release, Pasillas had enlisted multiple individuals in the plot, providing them with detailed information about the victim's whereabouts and activities, including the night of the shooting. Surveillance conducted on the boyfriend in the weeks preceding the attack further corroborated the chilling plan's existence. Despite Pasillas' alleged involvement, Riverside police revealed to the media states that the victim, fortunately, survived the assault and has since been discharged from the hospital, although he continues to recover from his injuries. Shedding light on the possible motive behind the heinous act, authorities hinted at Pasillas' religious ideology as a potential factor, speculating that it may have spurred the pastor to seek harm against his daughter's partner. Alongside Pasillas, another individual implicated in the scheme, Juan Manuel Cebreros, 55, from Long Beach, was also arrested on charges of conspiracy to commit murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Both Pasillas and Cebreros pleaded not guilty during a joint arraignment held on Monday and are slated to appear at a felony settlement conference in the coming week. The case has sent shockwaves throughout the community, prompting reflection on the complexities of human nature and the lengths to which individuals may go in pursuit of their objectives. As legal proceedings unfold, Riverside residents grapple with the unsettling reality of a trusted religious figure allegedly entangled in a web of violence and deceit, underscoring the importance of vigilance and accountability in safeguarding against such atrocities. As the investigation progresses, authorities remain committed to uncovering the truth and ensuring that justice is served for the victim and all those affected by this disturbing episode. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com 

A shocking revelation has rocked Riverside, California, as a local pastor stands accused of orchestrating a murder-for-hire plot against his daughter's boyfriend. Samuel Pasillas, 47, from Victorville, was arrested last week on a slew of charges, including solicitation for murder and attempted murder, after reportedly paying $40,000 to have the boyfriend killed, according to a press release from the Riverside city government. Pasillas' arrest follows a meticulous investigation launched by authorities in October, triggered by a chilling incident where the boyfriend arrived at a local hospital with gunshot wounds. Recounting the harrowing ordeal, the victim claimed he had been ambushed while driving, with a vehicle pulling up alongside and opening fire. However, as detectives delved deeper into the case, they unraveled a disturbing truth—a sinister "murder-for-hire" scheme masterminded by Pasillas. According to the city's press release, Pasillas had enlisted multiple individuals in the plot, providing them with detailed information about the victim's whereabouts and activities, including the night of the shooting. Surveillance conducted on the boyfriend in the weeks preceding the attack further corroborated the chilling plan's existence. Despite Pasillas' alleged involvement, Riverside police revealed to the media states that the victim, fortunately, survived the assault and has since been discharged from the hospital, although he continues to recover from his injuries. Shedding light on the possible motive behind the heinous act, authorities hinted at Pasillas' religious ideology as a potential factor, speculating that it may have spurred the pastor to seek harm against his daughter's partner. Alongside Pasillas, another individual implicated in the scheme, Juan Manuel Cebreros, 55, from Long Beach, was also arrested on charges of conspiracy to commit murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Both Pasillas and Cebreros pleaded not guilty during a joint arraignment held on Monday and are slated to appear at a felony settlement conference in the coming week. The case has sent shockwaves throughout the community, prompting reflection on the complexities of human nature and the lengths to which individuals may go in pursuit of their objectives. As legal proceedings unfold, Riverside residents grapple with the unsettling reality of a trusted religious figure allegedly entangled in a web of violence and deceit, underscoring the importance of vigilance and accountability in safeguarding against such atrocities. As the investigation progresses, authorities remain committed to uncovering the truth and ensuring that justice is served for the victim and all those affected by this disturbing episode. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com 

A shocking revelation has rocked Riverside, California, as a local pastor stands accused of orchestrating a murder-for-hire plot against his daughter's boyfriend. Samuel Pasillas, 47, from Victorville, was arrested last week on a slew of charges, including solicitation for murder and attempted murder, after reportedly paying $40,000 to have the boyfriend killed, according to a press release from the Riverside city government. Pasillas' arrest follows a meticulous investigation launched by authorities in October, triggered by a chilling incident where the boyfriend arrived at a local hospital with gunshot wounds. Recounting the harrowing ordeal, the victim claimed he had been ambushed while driving, with a vehicle pulling up alongside and opening fire. However, as detectives delved deeper into the case, they unraveled a disturbing truth—a sinister "murder-for-hire" scheme masterminded by Pasillas. According to the city's press release, Pasillas had enlisted multiple individuals in the plot, providing them with detailed information about the victim's whereabouts and activities, including the night of the shooting. Surveillance conducted on the boyfriend in the weeks preceding the attack further corroborated the chilling plan's existence. Despite Pasillas' alleged involvement, Riverside police revealed to the media states that the victim, fortunately, survived the assault and has since been discharged from the hospital, although he continues to recover from his injuries. Shedding light on the possible motive behind the heinous act, authorities hinted at Pasillas' religious ideology as a potential factor, speculating that it may have spurred the pastor to seek harm against his daughter's partner. Alongside Pasillas, another individual implicated in the scheme, Juan Manuel Cebreros, 55, from Long Beach, was also arrested on charges of conspiracy to commit murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Both Pasillas and Cebreros pleaded not guilty during a joint arraignment held on Monday and are slated to appear at a felony settlement conference in the coming week. The case has sent shockwaves throughout the community, prompting reflection on the complexities of human nature and the lengths to which individuals may go in pursuit of their objectives. As legal proceedings unfold, Riverside residents grapple with the unsettling reality of a trusted religious figure allegedly entangled in a web of violence and deceit, underscoring the importance of vigilance and accountability in safeguarding against such atrocities. As the investigation progresses, authorities remain committed to uncovering the truth and ensuring that justice is served for the victim and all those affected by this disturbing episode. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

E ae!Welcome to Deep Space Podcast! Many thanks for listening. Much thanks to my new good friend, Spatial Listener and Twitch subscriber GranGoddessa from Victorville, California!Thank you so much as well to all the other Twitch subscribers Ed Muschamp, MioMayatee, Qixtand, Holger Witt, Zeb, Dealernine, Njabulo, Vic Correa, Hershaba, Lance, Pull My Fingah, BS Creative Life, Darnella, Felippe Barreto! Please check many ways to support my podcast at:https://deepspacepodcast.com/subscribe Enjoy the week447! Playlist:Artist – Track Name – [Label] 1) Goose - Ambient Studies 022) kvrskpx - Morning Beat3) Hooksie - Square Break - [Palate]4) Boo Williams feat. Jamiel Patton - Chicago The Place - [Chiwax]5) Genius of Time - 909 Day - [Aniara]6) Glo Phase - We Hardly Speak - [Whiskey Pickle]7) Genius of Time - Stream - [Aniara]8) Tako Mizutani - Haze - [Slope Point]9) Benedek - Lost Groove - [Hotmix]10) Scott Grooves feat. Salaka Star - She Dances Her Story - [Modified Suede]11) Glo Phase - First Light - [Whiskey Pickle]12) T-Polar - Saturn Sisters13) Cristobal Paz & Franco Cinelli - Encuentro 1 - [caramba]

I am not sure the term “unstoppable” is good enough for our guest Denise Meridith. Denise was born in Brooklyn NY and, in part, attributes her “get things done” attitude to her upbringing in New York. As a child she wanted to be a veterinarian, but such was not to be. Denise explains that colleges back then didn't consider women capable of assuming veterinarian positions. So, Denise got a BS degree in Wildlife Biology.   She then joined the U.S. Bureau of Land Management where, for 29 years, assumed a number of position including serving as the deputy director. We get to hear stories of her time with the bureau and how she moved around, something that was fairly common for government employees for awhile.   After serving with the bureau for more than 20 years Denise was offered “early retirement” due to the long time she served there. After retiring she became the CEO of Denise Meridith Consultants Inc (DMCI), a public and community relations firm. In 2019 she also became the CEO of The World's Best Connectors LLC, a virtual community for C-suite executives that helps other executives enhance their connections with family, employees, clients, government & the media. If running two companies weren't enough Denise also has formed a 501C3 nonprofit organization, Read to Kids US Inc to promote literacy and family bonding.   See what I mean about being unstoppable? Denise is quite engaging and I am sure you will discover that the time listening to our conversation goes by quickly and you may even wish to give this episode a second listen.   About the Guest:   Denise Meridith is a highly accomplished senior executive, entrepreneur and thought leader, with more than 40 years of success in government, technology, sports, and entertainment. When sexism denied her access to her childhood dream of becoming a veterinarian, she earned a BS in Wildlife Biology from Cornell University and became the first professional woman hired by the Federal Bureau of Land Management. During her 29 years with the Bureau, Meridith served in multiple states and, while Deputy Director in Washington, DC, she oversaw 200 offices, 10,000 employees and a $1.1 billion budget.   After early retirement from the Federal government and for the past 20 years, she has been CEO of Denise Meridith Consultants Inc (DMCI), a public and community relations firm. Since 2019, Meridith has also been CEO of The World's Best Connectors LLC, a virtual community for C-suite executives that helps other executives enhance their connections with family, employees, clients, government & the media. Recently she created a 501(c)3 non-profit Read to Kids US Inc to promote literacy and family bonding.   During the past 25 years in Arizona, Denise founded the Phoenix Black Chamber of Commerce, Linking Sports & Communities (a youth sports non-profit for 14 years), and was a Governor-appointed member of the original Arizona Sports & Tourism Board. She helped win approval for State Farm Stadium for the Arizona Cardinals.  In academia, she taught sports marketing for undergraduates at Arizona State University and business operations for executives at eCornell. As a freelance reporter, she has even written 1000 articles about small businesses. Denise Meridith has won many awards for business and community development in Arizona.   ** ** Ways to connect with Denise:   FREE OFFERS:   JOIN DENISE MERIDITH'S MAILING LIST   http://tinyurl.com/3ttt5rsu   Make your first New Year's Resolution Now: Schedule a 15-min call to see if Denise Meridith's Gen X & Baby Boomer Executives Regaining Your Mojo  counseling or masterminds starting in January are right for you https://calendly.com/dmci2021/mastering-the-metaverse   LEARN MORE ABOUT Denise Meridith:   By reading her self-biographies published on Amazon: o   Thoughts While Chillin'  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1791662323 o   The Day a Roof Rat Ate My Dishwasher https://www.amazon.com/dp/1729211127   Social Media:   Facebook:    http://www.facebook.com/denise.meridith.7 LinkedIn:     http://www.linkedin.com/in/denisemeridtih Twitter:  @MeridithDP2023       About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, a pleasant hello to you wherever you happen to be. I am your host, Michael Hingson. And you are listening to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're with us. And today we get to talk to Denise Meridith, who has a really interesting story, a few factoids, and then we will just go from there. She as a child wanted to be a veterinarian, but had some sexist issues. And they wouldn't let her do it. I want to know about that. I think the world has changed in that regard. Some but nevertheless, when she was wanting to do it, it was different. She is the first female professional hired by the Bureau of Land Management. And that's fascinating. And she's got a lot of other things to talk about. So I don't think we're going to have any problem filling up an hour Denise. So I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. And thanks for being here.   Denise Meridith ** 02:13 Well, thank you, Michael. I appreciate being invited. Looking forward to it. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:18 why don't we start then, with you talking a little bit about the the early Denise the child and all that, you know, what, where you grew up and some of that kind of stuff. And what made you interested in being a veterinarian and you know, we can take it from there? Sure.   Denise Meridith ** 02:34 Well, I am born in Brooklyn, like so many people in New York City, a lot of people born in Brooklyn, and then they migrate different boroughs.   Michael Hingson ** 02:43 Where are the best bagels in Brooklyn? Well, I   Denise Meridith ** 02:47 didn't stay there long enough to find okay. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 02:53 Well, okay, we're the best bagels and Queens.   Denise Meridith ** 02:55 We had so many people grew up in New York City. Every block will have a good bagel. So yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 03:03 I know. That's why I asked the question, trying to be cute. It's just like I lived in Chicago for five years. I was born in Chicago moved out when I was five. And so I don't know when things like Garrett Popcorn started. But I know that whenever I go through Chicago, I do need to go to get popcorn in O'Hare. Or if I'm in the city that I'll go to one of the places downtown. We do. We do tend to do some of the things in the world buy our food. What can I say?   Denise Meridith ** 03:29 Yes. All right. If that's hotdogs, yeah, that would be asking you where to get their best hotdog in Chicago. Sure.   Michael Hingson ** 03:34 When they're in Chicago pizza, which is different than New York pizza, but that's okay, too. Yeah, they're both great. Ah, what a world anyway.   Denise Meridith ** 03:44 Yeah, so I sort of grew up in knots, whatever I did grew up in Queens, and I had what I call a Norman Rockwell childhood. If you seen his paintings and pictures, that's pretty much my childhood, but some Boxster ovaries, three houses, that type of thing. My dad had grown up on a ranch in Texas. So that's why he moved to Queens. You want more land around his house there. And so we had a big lot in our house became the center of attention in the neighborhood. We had the barbecues parties. We had a finished basement with a pool table and ping pong table and all that stuff. So we were at the center of things. My dad was a renaissance man, he believe it I didn't ride horses when he grew up. He thought horses would work. He couldn't understand why people rode horses for fun once he became an adult, so instead, he hears the musician. Big bands, he played in big bands,   Michael Hingson ** 04:41 what did he play   Denise Meridith ** 04:43 any horn and also the drums and also the guitar. Anything he can get his hands on? He was an Army and Army veteran. So I played an Army band as well. He was Avature tennis player, a poet, professional photographer, you name it. You did it. And then my mom was a community organizer. So church, PTA, anything that needed somebody in charge she was it. So when you merge those two together, you get me. So I liked a lot of pay for things. My mom, she belonged to the animal association or now Humane Society. So I had all kinds of pets growing up. So it's logical that I would want to be a vet. Because there's not too many professions in New York. It could be go to Broadway and I did take dancing lessons most of my life. But you could go to Broadway, you could be a doctor, you gotta be a lawyer or bid. That was pretty much it. So I picked the vet, because Cornell was in New York one. Yeah. Got vet schools and world. Yes. When I got up there, I found out that they weren't too keen on women being vets, they were just letting like one woman a year and into vet school. And pretty much to be that woman. I knew it was gonna be me, because there'll be somebody who pretty much grew up on a farm or something, or whose parent wasn't? Preferably who went to Cornell.   Michael Hingson ** 06:08 What was what was their logic? I mean, of course, I'm looking at it from today's standpoint, and today's point of view, but what was there was   Denise Meridith ** 06:19 physical physical, that went on weren't capable being that's the women, the few that I let them know, you had to be a small animal that they work with horses or anything like that. So which I thought was pretty ironic. Could you pick up all the women, cow girls and stuff? Yeah. Why? Why they would think women in fact, why went to Cornell, I had a lot of offers when I went to Cornell, was because I had the best equine contract program in the country. And I do like horses. So anyway, I got to do a lot of horse stuff there without being a vet, my roommate, actually was from a town, she just wanted to live in a dorm. So no breaks, all the kids go, you know, I guess what I do now biking, or vaping, or something. We would go horseback riding during breaks. So during lunch, or any kind of break, after school, we would go horseback riding. So it was pretty ideal setting for me growing up. And going to that point, the ideal part of it, of course, was what a lot of people don't know about the North. isn't that different from the south in a lot of ways and that I integrated junior high school, all white, you're in high school, I integrate it in a whole white high school. Cornell there were, like 75 African Americans in my entering class of 3000. So I had a lot of experience, being in the first study only our breaking glass ceilings. So that was my growing up. And my bed story how I got not to be a bit of what happened with that was, which was fortuitous, or actually more beneficial was that I wound up majoring in wildlife biology. Have any women but they didn't say they didn't want any women. So it was a lot different atmosphere there. So three women, three women graduated with degrees in wildlife biology.   Michael Hingson ** 08:23 What did you do with it? Then when you got that degree? My   Denise Meridith ** 08:27 first job was as a wildlife biologist, believe it or not? The Bureau of Land Management. So that was I got to be the first woman in that agency.   Michael Hingson ** 08:37 Were there a lot of challenges in getting that job? Or were you pretty well accepted? Right from the outset? Or what?   Denise Meridith ** 08:44 There was always going to be challenges. Yeah. Dave, and but essentially, and that was I interviewed earlier today. And it reminded me when you're a senior in college, now, you don't just go online, put in entries, but you would have to write write letters. So people remember that you had to write letters to them and agency companies asking to be considered. And I as a wildlife biologist, there are not a lot of options are state government. Maybe that's not likely because people die in place and the state government openings there.   Michael Hingson ** 09:21 So what was what year was it that you graduated?   Denise Meridith ** 09:25 I was graduated 73.   Michael Hingson ** 09:27 Okay. All right. All right. Yeah. Because I'm thinking of of things like it was much later than that was like 23 years later. Well, it was actually more than that. It was like 26 years. It was like 1999 my fourth guy Doug Linney became ill with glomerular nephritis and the, the emergency vet or actually the specialists that we took her to was a woman in in a veterinarian facility that was mostly women. So, clearly there was a lot of change. But anyway, that   Denise Meridith ** 10:03 Yeah, well, it's I would say it's all women. Now you've made pretty   Michael Hingson ** 10:07 hard, but very much a lot. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's   Denise Meridith ** 10:11 timing is everything. Yeah, that's hardly very few men anymore. I don't sure exactly why. But there are very few men anymore in that field. So I wrote my letters to places that would harm wildlife people. So Fish and Wildlife Service in a Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management. The Park Service and Forest Service both told me they didn't hire women. That was pretty plain. And what's interesting now and I talked to younger people, sort of horrified. People could say that then it wasn't. It wasn't uncommon. It wasn't thought to be different, or rude or discriminatory or anything. They. And so now, you know, I wish I kept the letters. You didn't keep going wasn't anything different. Before, right, and forest service offered me a job as a secretary, they liked my degree from Cornell. They thought I'd make a pretty good secretary. So the Bureau of Land Management is the only one that said, okay, and probably I said, it's a perfect storm. Why I got that particular job. That job had been vacant for two years. They couldn't find anybody   Michael Hingson ** 11:21 to take it. So they figured what the heck, we'll give her a try.   Denise Meridith ** 11:24 Yeah, all right. Gotta have somebody in here sooner or later. So I took that job and which was in Las Vegas, of all things of all places. And it was turned out great with an office, small office 25 people or so in office, the average age was 27. Because nobody wanted to live in Vegas at that time. We had a if you can imagine. People that age in Vegas, we had a great time. We had a great time to that office. And it's a lot of fun. I was one of six wildlife biologists in the state. Because now people have seen all the movies and the shows and everything. But at that time, while kingdom was it, the only show it mentioned, you know, that wildlife Marlon Perkins. Yep. So he was an inspiration to me and everybody who went into the field and at that time, but there weren't many of us. So I had 10 million acres to play with by myself.   Michael Hingson ** 12:26 With a lot of fun and what was it you were to do with those 10 million acres?   Denise Meridith ** 12:30 Wildlife Biology it pretty much studying patterns and populations, identifying ingredient species, we need to do the preserve them. What the big change for me was I went to school in upstate New York. And my first job was in the desert of Nevada. Yes. Completely different wildlife. So I got to learn a lot about a lot of different wildlife. In fact, the main wildlife there was desert tortoises, and my favorite, yeah, they're nice. And pup fish and the old era. That's about it.   Michael Hingson ** 13:09 That's about it. Well, I had desert tortoises as pets growing up. And then we lived in Mission Viejo and California in 1982 through 1989. And my in laws lived, but 2025 miles away in San Clemente. And one day they were outside and a tortoise came walking up their driveway. And they advertise because they wanted to find it. They figured it was so Taurus that belonged to someone and nobody ever claimed it. And I said I would love it. So we named him et turtle because his face was like ET. And he lived with us for for a number of years. And then the gardener left the gate open and he got out but it was fun. He loved cantaloupe. He loved rose petals.   Denise Meridith ** 14:02 Yeah, yeah, they're interested in pets. I had one one time that also got out. And it's something you don't think about, you know, think about you know, you think of dogs running away. You don't think your Taurus is gonna run away but   Michael Hingson ** 14:17 curious. Yeah. Well, it happens Mukunda What do you do, but by the same token, it was fun when he was around with us. And he figured out that we had a screen door in the backyard that went into the house and wouldn't latch but he figured out he could use his front feet and open the door and come in. That's great. And what he liked to do is go live right in front of the refrigerator because the refrigerator was nice and warm and and that caused great consternation with our cat who couldn't figure out what he was so   Denise Meridith ** 14:55 that's good. Well, they're smarter than we think. They are. Yeah, Well, people are asking me today Well, earlier as if you will have a master's degree in public administration, and I said, Yeah, I have a people degree and an animal degree. Yeah. And believe me, the people agree as a lot harder. Oh, yeah. Animals wildlife would do fine on its own. Okay. The reason why we have wildlife biologists is to actually figure out what to do with about the people, much   Michael Hingson ** 15:28 more than the animals. You're right. Exactly. So you became a wildlife biologist? And how long did she do that?   Denise Meridith ** 15:36 I did that for a couple of years there in Vegas. And then what I figured out was that while being from New York, you know, I'm very decisive, or aggressive or assertive, is that biologists don't make decisions. They make recommendations, I figured that out. It was like, I could do a lot more for wildlife being in more decision making capacity. So I switched from wildlife biology to environmental science, because the environmental scientists are the ones that wrote the environmental assessments, and the rules and regs and all of that type of thing. And so I was able to do a lot more for wildlife, from that position than I did from being a bog biologist.   Michael Hingson ** 16:25 Was that also in Las Vegas? Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 16:27 so I did that for two years. And then after that I was on the road I moved at that time, which is different now. Because I assumed government can't afford it. They wanted you to move every three or four years, just like the military. So you did. So that was four years time ago. Again, because still a bit. Some people think the good old days or the bad old days, depending on what side you're on. couldn't really get another job as a first woman. And most of the western areas, they're back east where I was hired in and our job was in Silver Spring, Maryland. So I hopped back after that, I hopped back and forth across the country. Guess where the best opportunities?   Michael Hingson ** 17:18 Were you've been in a number of positions where you're kind of the first or first woman to do it. What were what were some of the others? Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 17:28 every job in the bureau after that pretty much was the first. No, I was the first the somebody but I was deputy for resources and New Mexico, Santa Fe, New Mexico. I was associate state director lesson number two person in California. That was great. I was the head person and eastern region, which covered 31 states, West that bordered on that nice for the Mississippi. And then I was the first in only woman. Personnel call a deputy director in the United States, for the Bureau of Land Management. And Washington, DC during the Clinton Administration. That's pretty much in charge. It's a political visit the directors political position. So the deputy is sort of the one that sort of runs things as us almost a CEO type of Ryan. Oh, and that I had 10,000 employees and billion dollar budget and 200 offices. So that was very exciting.   Michael Hingson ** 18:34 A little bit more expensive to live in DC than in Vegas. And but but I don't know, today, Vegas is getting pretty expensive.   Denise Meridith ** 18:41 Yeah, I guess it's funny because Vegas even then was relatively expensive to other parts of the Southwest. Luckily, I moved to DC, you know, so long ago, and then I kept my house and move away and don't move back. I was in DC a couple of times, luckily kept my house. So it was that the thing with the government. The other reason that government doesn't move you all over the place now is that they will buy your house. And I'm sure they can't afford to do that type of thing anymore. Yeah. If you? Yeah, if you didn't want to sell it, or you couldn't sell it, the government would buy it   Michael Hingson ** 19:16 and move you. Do you still have your house in DC now. Now? Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 19:20 I kept it I'd be very well off. But oh, yeah, I left it. So I moved to LA. Well, it's interesting selling my house in DC I could afford two houses. In Phoenix. I didn't buy two houses. Probably should have done that too. But I how low the price of the housing was here. Yeah. And now since pass COVID Since everybody knows that figured out. It's a wonderful place to live. I think it had the highest rise in prices in the country. Well, Phoenix. This past year   Michael Hingson ** 19:54 gets pretty hot in the summer. Now I live in Victorville. So we're on the high desert weekend. had over 100 in the summer, but you get a lot more hot for longer periods of time than we do. We'll be in the high 90s Low hundreds or so. But Phoenix tends to get hotter.   Denise Meridith ** 20:12 Yeah. Why about saves that has no humidity whatsoever.   Michael Hingson ** 20:15 Right? Most cases where I am pretty much the same thing. Yeah.   Denise Meridith ** 20:20 So here are the ideal temperature is probably 100 100. And Summertime is fine. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:27 That's when it gets to 110 115. It's a little bit a little bit different.   Denise Meridith ** 20:32 And we haven't been having much of that. So I guess climate change. We haven't been having as much of that. lately.   Michael Hingson ** 20:38 You did this summer, though, right? This past summer.   Denise Meridith ** 20:41 This summer. Yeah. But it was like one stretch. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:47 It did make national news. You're right. But still,   Denise Meridith ** 20:49 it was just like, a week or two. And I will trade that for 11 months and perfect. Navi   Michael Hingson ** 20:56 I hear you.   Denise Meridith ** 20:59 So but yeah, Victorville that was in my my area, you know, and I was I had a California here. So high desert was pretty interesting. It's like two different countries. In Northern California and Southern California.   Michael Hingson ** 21:15 Well, in Southern California, the high desert is different than the Inland Empire somewhat and both different than right on the coast. So So what do you do? It's, it's, it's the way it is, but it was 26 this morning when I woke up. Yeah. Oh, not too bad. And it was high was 59. I was pretty impressed with it. It went up by 33 degrees. So that's pretty cool. Oh,   Denise Meridith ** 21:43 neat sense of the word. Yeah. And we were having a fit here. Because it was a high was like 59 or 68. We're ready to jump out windows here. It was. I don't know. And nothing is here. We complain about it being cold. But we don't have jackets. You know what I mean? We don't have Cokes? We don't have anything that would make it not fairly that bad, right.   Michael Hingson ** 22:12 For a while I lived in the Bay Area. And there were times up in Novato where we could get over 100. But typically, it wasn't too bad. So we didn't have an air conditioner in the summer.   Denise Meridith ** 22:22 Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I lived in Sacramento. The class difference. Yeah. Yeah, that was hot. But I would tell people, you know, they come visit. And of course, you have to take them to San Francisco. They're coming to visit you. They're really not coming to visit you. So I need to always forewarn them. Okay, San Francisco, it's got to be cool. The same? And still, everybody's surprised and they get the air for Cisco. And freeze.   Michael Hingson ** 22:48 Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like Mark Twain said, he said this. I spent a what a winter there one week in the summer or something like that. But yeah, well, so how long did you stay with the Bureau of Land Management in   Denise Meridith ** 23:02 29 years, I was with them. Oh, my gosh, yeah. And I left. After I left the DC current administration, when I was had the 200 offices. And even a 200 officers didn't bother me as much as the issue is in DC. I'm a very, like I said, sort of decisive kind of person, I like results. And DC is not designed for that. You know, it's not nobody's fault. It's just not designed to make decisions. So I wanted to go back where you could actually do things, have projects that are finished, etc. So after a couple of years, I moved to Arizona, where I am now. So I've been here for 28 years. And it was great when I moved back here as the state director, and I wound up designating for national monuments. So helping get the Arizona Trail doesn't made it I upgraded all the RV parks, a lot of campgrounds, etc, etc, etc. So I was able to do things. And I love that.   Michael Hingson ** 24:14 And then what did you do? And   Denise Meridith ** 24:16 so when I left Oh, they had an early out, which they don't do that anymore, you but they used to say, Okay, have they like every so many years they would say okay, you can leave if you have based on yours, not your age. So guess what, since I started two weeks out of college, I had a lot of years and no age, so I got to retire super super early in life. And what I did is Denise married a consultant Incorporated, which is a public and community relations firm. It's actually wound up doing a lot of the same things, tourism recreation. Thanks for the outdoors I helped. Also well thanks like I Have the get the stadium built the NFL stadium built here. Several other spring training stadiums designated not just a lot of parks and star help get them designated a lot of things like that. So I did, yeah, pretty similar types of work. Except I'm from the private industry president.   Michael Hingson ** 25:22 So what made you leave BLM and start your own company? Just because of the out the years? Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 25:30 yeah. Hard to pass that up. Or retire at that age. So yeah, got that. And and you know, it's can make up what I used to preach to people, they didn't believe me, because people go, Oh, government, so boring, and bla bla bla bla bla bla, well, it ceases to be boring when you have a pension and health care. Right. So well,   Michael Hingson ** 25:55 I can make it as fun as you want at all. It's all about mental attitude to   Denise Meridith ** 26:00 Yeah. And I was less than working for the Bureau of Land Management, because what you had, it's all scientists. Right? So this geologists, it's science, people doing science, happiest people in the world, you know, so I really enjoyed. I enjoyed them, they were enjoying their work, I enjoyed them. It was just, to me a wonderful opportunity to work with people for that long, who enjoy their work. And it's not too many people who can say that anymore. But it was unusual that why in government with our agency.   Michael Hingson ** 26:38 So you what, what made you start the company, you just wanted to continue doing the same sorts of things. And that was the easiest way to do it. Or, yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 26:47 I probably should have stayed retired now. Now, I've enjoyed what I've done. But essentially, two weeks after retirement, the story was, well, two weeks after retirement. And I'm thinking boy, gee, I can do anything. How does this you know, it's sort of a shock when you're working all the time. And like, when I was in DC, I was on the road 75% of the time, so And Arizona, I travel a lot. Oh, I could do anything. So a friend of mine called and said, Well, why don't we go to the movies, and it was like the middle of the day. And I thought, oh my god, this is good. Go to the movies. So we went to see a movie very bad. Well, I know I shouldn't but and I came back and water was coming out my front door. I've sunburst blah, blah, blah. I spent the next five weeks in a hotel. And so the only thing I can think is that I was lost my mind. Because it had happy hour every night. When I invited somebody else to join, join me and happy hour, and they go, Oh, nice. What is great opening job opened up and I think I had too much wine. This great opening open up but heading up this nonprofit. You should take a look at that. And so I did. Some I retirement didn't last very long. So I ended up that nonprofit. And I've been doing something ever since.   Michael Hingson ** 28:15 Just what was that nonprofit?   Denise Meridith ** 28:19 It was the Arizona Trail Association. You know, they were one of the longest trails in the United States. And it goes from border to border from the northern border, Arizona, New Mexico. And spectacular trail. Because Arizona is beautiful. So it's a very beautiful trail. But they were having problems getting it designated. Because yes, politics and I understand politics. I help them. Actually it was me and John McCain got together and helped get that trail designated. But I'm sort of a restless person. Sorry, I was only there for a year with them. I had my own Disney spirit consultants started anyway. So then I just did a variety of things. I like projects start finished start finish. Until about, you know pretty much on my own. until five years ago, I decided, well, why don't you get a whole group of people who like to do that. And that's when world's best connectors was started. So the current organization that I manage, and what it just made up of a bunch of folks like myself, they all have their own businesses. But we get together and people throw out ideas and we jump on them or not. We're consulting firm. If n were CEO, the CEO, we're not B to B or C it'd be all those things. We're CEO, the CEO, that what we do is help other executives what problems they come in, they need a tech person, they need a HR person, they need whatever come to us. We either have a person like that, or we can get them a person like that. So that's what we've done in the past five years   Michael Hingson ** 30:03 is disease murders consultants still functioning? So you have two companies? Yeah.   Denise Meridith ** 30:10 Well, I actually three, but we want if it gets too complicated, but no, I have a nonprofit to read to kids, us. I'm trying to get parents to read to the kids again, like they did in the old days. But the days for consultants where that comes in is, and really the reason that I met you really, at do a lot of conferencing and whatever. But I do coaching, professional coaching, or people, and particularly for Baby Boomers and Gen X, what I do is help them rediscover their mojo. That's what I call it. And so I think both of those groups pretty much had it made in the beginning of 2020. Yeah, they had figured it out. They were doing well, economy's doing well, it's all kinds of opportunities going. Everything looks fantastic. I as an example, was that in Miami for Super Bowl week with my group, a group from world's best connectors, and we were networking and going to a lot of special events, thinking of future partnerships, future contracts. And two weeks later, I come back COVID Close everything down. So and that happened to a lot of what happened, everybody but baby, I think Baby Boomers and Gen X is crooked, because it was more of a disappointment. He thought you had it figured out you could actually had everything made. And then when President says COVID stuff and pandemics over those people ran back to work. And guess what? Nobody only wants to came back. Nobody else was in the office. Yeah. Nobody else wanted to be in the office   Michael Hingson ** 31:57 and a bunch of them got COVID.   Denise Meridith ** 31:58 Yeah, so it was just, to me devastating for a lot of people in my age group. So what I do is, work with them. You can't go backwards, it's not going to change. It's not going to go back to what it was. What can we do to find your happiness? Again? A place in a position and a life that can make you happy again? Yeah, a lot of people don't notice that. Really? COVID gave them a second chance. Yes. Okay, you're gonna have another opportunity. Maybe they didn't even like that job. You know that they're complaining about low job anyway. So what can we do? They get you something that you do like or no job at all. That's delicate, and people have a hard time transitioning sometimes to retirement. And so I help people over those humps. That's what I tried to help you. So   Michael Hingson ** 32:55 you do a lot of coaching and helping people and so when I should explain to the folks listening out there that Denise and I met through PATA Palooza that people know what PATA Palooza is, we've talked about it a number of times on on unstoppable mindset. And for those who don't know PATA Palooza is a program that meets four times a year and the people who come are either podcasters interested in being podcasters, or want to be interviewed by podcasters. Pretty much. Those are the people that usually come. And Denise and I met there. And here we are.   Denise Meridith ** 33:29 Yeah, we had a, you know, I think a lot in common as far as the way we look at the world, and achieving things and being happy. So I yeah, I was very impressed with what you do what you've overcome. I do a lot of speeches. Well, now it's coming up on Black History Month. So for that Women's History Month back, but I get request, obviously. Because people want to know how, yeah, obviously, all these all these things could have been obstacles, not being a vet, that not, you know, getting certain jobs, they not getting promotions, all of that. You can look at that as an obstacle that it is, or you can figure out a way to overcome that. But   Michael Hingson ** 34:20 you But you made a choice, somewhere in your psyche, that you weren't going to let those kinds of things stop you and that you were going to continue to   Denise Meridith ** 34:28 move on. Exactly. And that's that's the only way to do it. Thanks for not gonna be equal, you know, and that's one thing that's sort of hard to take those true. Baby bonus. Well, what we see is what we see, what we see is what we get. So I if you think about I was a kid when Civil Rights Act was passed, and everybody thought everything was going to change. And it hasn't been something strange, but women can be better Now, you know, overall, they're still allowed to obstacle. So I worked with people, well, I not work with people, I hope to be a role model for people, and how not to give up. And, and I say, essentially, wonder closes, God opens another one to take it.   Michael Hingson ** 35:20 What's hot? What's ironic is so the same thing in a sense with the Americans with Disabilities Act, everybody thought everything was going to change, and it hasn't. Unemployment rates have dropped a little bit. But they're still incredibly high. Internet websites aren't accessible, for the most part. And we're not included in a lot of the conversations when you talk about diversity that doesn't generally include disabilities. So some of us like, like I and I've talked about it on the podcast here talk about inclusion, you either are inclusive, or you're not, there's no middle ground, you either are gonna be or you're not. But at the same time, the thing that we have, and continue to face is not included in a lot of the conversations. So I don't hear anybody talking about a disability history Awareness Month or anything like that, although there is a month dealing with disabilities, but it is not nearly as well discussed and mentioned and talked about, or included as other minorities, even though we're a larger minority than all of them.   Denise Meridith ** 36:24 Wow. And everybody has the potential to be in that group. And   Michael Hingson ** 36:29 everybody has the potential to be in that group. Every well. Well, of course, actually, in, in a technical sense, everybody is a member of that group, I believe that we've misinterpreted the definition of disability, and that disability is a characteristic that everyone has, it manifests in different ways like you can see, and your disability, at least one of your disabilities, is your light dependent, you know, the power goes out, what are you going to do, you gotta go off and try to find a light source. Thomas Edison fixed it mostly, but not totally. And so it still creeps in. So the bottom line is, everybody has a disability. You know, it's something that we, we we really should think more about, but there's a lot of fear. And people know that they can become a person with a physical disability or whatever. And so the fear keeps us from being really included, like we ought to be.   Denise Meridith ** 37:21 And I've always had empathy along those lines, whatever reason why parents whatever reason was, but I, when I became the director, the deputy director of the Bureau, Ada, just pretty much passed. Right. And so I hired a person to, you know, interpret that legislation for us and help people with that legislation. Or did that set off a firestorm? How couldn't you be wasting a position on that? Nobody cares about that, and nobody needs to know that. Anyway, so but I do what I do. Right. So So I went ahead. And in this case, she was a hearing impaired, but as soon as she got there, things changed people. Oh, I have a question. Oh, I don't understand this, oh, how can I do this better? And   Michael Hingson ** 38:19 of course, today, and of course, today, most people rightfully so would not be caught dead saying hearing impaired because people who are deaf or hard of hearing recognize impaired is, is a negative thing. And we're not even cared, you know, the, and that hasn't really translated into blindness, because so many people continue to say visually impaired, and it shouldn't be blind or low vision. Because why are we Why do you equate how much sight you have with whether you're impaired or not? And that's the issue that we're Why do you equate, whether you how much you hear is to whether you're impaired or not. That's the whole thing we have to change and it's just so hard to do, because it's so ingrained in society.   Denise Meridith ** 39:01 Yeah, that'll be GQ. T I A plus. As an example, you know, the it's just the getting across what we need to get credit. It's getting harder, not easier to talk to people about anything. All right. Unfortunately, it's getting harder. So but she went on to be pretty popular pretty, pretty much in demand. But I I'm doing right now, one of the projects that we're working on, and world's best connectors is business education for college athletes. So again, it sort of comes up. Most people when they think about the NCAA is ruling on name image and likeness, nio that kid's gonna get paid for playing. Like a football, man and men and footballs. That's the whole thing. And if you look at this statistic, that's where the money is. That's where it nio money is going, blah, blah, blah, man and football and so my group, we're looking at students overall. And our program is open to any student in any sport in any school. And I want people that want to go to the Olympics, I want Paralympic people, I want LGBTQ T people, I want any athlete. But again, that's different. People aren't saying that they're not thinking that at all. So we're going to be a little different that way. But I always have been different. But I think if anything, those other groups all need it more. Because right now 2% of NCAA athletes in college, become professional athletes. 2% Okay, 98% What are they gonna do afterwards? And, you know, college is not really prepared for them for that. It's no, but just they have different goals. Okay. And I don't begrudge them that they have different goals, different objectives. But what we're doing is teaching them how to create a business run a business. So they have something when they leave college, they leave our program with a business license. So they have something when they leave college, what they do with it after that, we up to them, but at least it gives them a chance and opportunity to be I say something besides a pitcher in a yearbook? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 41:25 Which is something that certainly makes sense to do.   Denise Meridith ** 41:30 So where it's called Project Nylo. And so I encourage people to look into it. It's pretty simple. It's www dot project. Nylo. And I l.com Pretty simple, but the O is for ownership. And what we do is want to put ownership in the NFL, on the side of the good. Oh, that's just something different. Okay, now, I was gonna say, but you know, the things why I like liked you when I met you. And why I like your program, is there's such a need for educating the public about things. And it's getting harder and harder to do that. On paper. You know, to me, that's the anti intellectual approach that's being taken to so many things. It makes it more difficult. So I appreciate what you're doing.   Michael Hingson ** 42:27 You have you have in your life I'm sure had. Well, you talk a lot about mentoring, and you've been mentored a number of people who are some of the people who have been your mentors?   Denise Meridith ** 42:40 Um, yeah, it's interesting. Obviously, I didn't have many women. I didn't have any women mentors in Bureau, I was it so I became the permanent woman, mentor, and the Bureau of Land Management. But I did have a lot of male mentors. And that's one thing I try to get across to people know not to make stereotypes of people judgments about people you never know. My first mentor and Bureau of Land Management was older Anglo guy, and I say older, we thought he was really old, because he was 55. He's like, 2020 to 21, and whatever. So and he was a sagebrush specialist, right? That was his site. So you wouldn't think, and it was Republican conservative, you could go down the line. And we hit it off perfectly, which you wouldn't think so you can't make judgments about people. And he really helped me in the beginning, because like I said, I dealt with wildlife in New York. And we were in Nevada, though, he taught me a lot of desert, survival skills that I needed the half, and really helped me understand the bureau and it's what it did and how it did. It sounds like that. So Jim Bruner was my first mentor there. But then I had others while I'm away at hasty was the director of California for like, 30 years. He was the bureau director in California. He was awesome. Oh, God said and he would say, I like women better they work harder. Here's a big guy, Marine veteran, you know, tough guy and buzz cut until he died, you know? And so to have someone like that, except you Yeah, you know, promote you as like Kevin a year on pet Pitbull. Right. But it was very helpful. So I've had people like that. JOHN MCCAIN, ARIZONA. So I had mainly just because of the nature of the work I was said, mainly male mentors, mainly Anglo male mentors. So I do Estelle people keep an open mind about things you can learn from everyone. And I've had great support.   Michael Hingson ** 45:05 Was your mom, a mentor to you? Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 45:09 yeah, I talked about that your parents if you're lucky. I'd be the first mentor. So I described my dad and everything that he did. And my mom was community organizer, a very strong, liberated woman, so to speak. And so for both of them, I got a little bit from both of them that helped shape me. And I, and really, they're the ones said, you could do anything? Honestly, you bet. They didn't say that, you know, they were very supportive. The track the track to get to Cornell is no easy track. In New York, it starts my mother figured it out. It pretty much started when I graduated from elementary school. I was valedictorian there. And she knew you had to get into the right Junior High School to get into the right high school to get to Cornell. Okay, she was that far ahead. So I'm thinking, so that's why I integrated the junior high school. And it was all white. I think there was 20 people of color in that whole school. And then I integrated the high school that I went to as well. And yeah, that was no easy thing. But I keep your eye on the prize and what you want out of it, what you got, and then that high school was sort of a feeder type of high school for for now.   Michael Hingson ** 46:40 Here's an off the wall question. Going back to mentors for a second. You mentioned John McCain. How about Cindy McCain?   Denise Meridith ** 46:46 Cindy is wonderful. Yeah, people I don't know, maybe most people outside of Arizona don't realize or the southwest. It was a it was a couple. Yeah. He was very important. And his decision making. And just being an I love them both. There was such a strong couple. And she's carried on she's so she has   Michael Hingson ** 47:17 you know, he was the visible one. Pretty much in the news and all that but she is clearly continue to move. Move forward in is a vibrant force in her own right, which is great.   Denise Meridith ** 47:30 Yeah, and she has I'm gonna approach her about my program, too. But hey, you know, it's Yeah, yeah. And politics in general. You know, I just don't have many I care right now, are Republican and Democrat. I've been independent all my life. So it hasn't mattered, obviously. But, but the just, we need people that have conviction, you know, and make honest decisions, not based on, you know, contributions or anything like that.   Michael Hingson ** 48:05 Yeah, that's really the issue is having true convictions. And we just don't see that much of it. In the world in general, like we should know.   Denise Meridith ** 48:13 And, you know, who knows when we'll get there again. But it's very price people. He people never really knew what he was gonna vote, you know, how he's gonna vote, even though he was a conservative Republican. So you could guess some of it. But he did a lot of environmental work this Yeah, I know, as I was working with him on it, right. So that would shock people. They would not think that would happen. But there were   Michael Hingson ** 48:37 a few decisions he made. I thought were a little bit strange, but you know, but that's okay. You You do what you can, but clearly, he was a man of convictions and, and was was one of the good ones. Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 48:53 he was also effective. And that's one thing. There you go. You know, well, I don't know if we have to leave effective politicians anymore. But he brought a lot of money to the state. He was very obviously supportive of the military. So veterans, he did a lot to help veterans. He did a lot of, to me. Very important things that involve getting money, you have to get money to do good things. And he did. had, you know, did a good job of doing that. But, you know, so a lot of politicians now you don't see them getting money for anyone but themselves in a lot of cases. Yeah. It's pretty sad.   Michael Hingson ** 49:32 Yeah, we don't have the role models that we used to have them true models that you can look up to in terms of ethics and everything else. Yeah.   Denise Meridith ** 49:42 Sandra Day O'Connor, another person we lost. I said another wonderful person. I met her obviously through my stuff with the Bureau of Land Management. But again, you know, people couldn't predict. Yeah, she voted accordingly, you could not predict or assume, you know that she was going to do this or do that. He evaluated every issue that came up and, and, you know, stuck to her guns with it. She was very important. She also what I liked about her is that she rarely promoted education. Right now, Arizona, I don't know, I didn't look this past year are pretty much been number 49 out of 50. States and education. And she was did a lot to try to rectify that by really pushing education. She thought that people choose, right. Don't know enough about government. Yeah, it's not taught anymore. People don't know how government works. How, what is public service? Now that is, I know, Bureau and other federal agencies have a hard time getting anyone anymore. And believe me, we need civil servants. We need public servants. So who are honest, and they're just to do a good job. We need   Michael Hingson ** 51:09 to get leaders and it isn't just civil servants. They need to, to understand and other civil servants we need to grow leaders to write.   Denise Meridith ** 51:21 And I just really, a lot of people been discouraged. Like, even aside, even the science, they can't do science anymore. Right. So scientists are not happy campers as there used to be. Yeah, it's gotten very politicized. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. But I, my, what I've decided from here on I have a few years left, maybe just a few. But anyway, is to legacy, my legacy, hopefully, would be developing future leaders. So that's what I'm doing. That's why I'm doing like this education program. We're gonna create a whole new generation of business leaders, which will be nice people that in the past, or qualities have been overlooked athletes, people don't think about them, except how fast I can run or how high they can jump. Yeah. And when you think about it, that discipline there that they had to go through to be to where they are charismatic, a lot of them are charismatic leader type people. And, you know, we're missing all of that, by just, you know, throwing them out if they can't run out in the field anymore. Yeah. I'm hoping to give them some alternatives. In turn, they can take that business degree, go back home, hire people in their area, and their community back home with a business degree and have a family business. You know, it's it's multiple, as the effects multiply dramatically, I hope, what they were doing with this program,   Michael Hingson ** 53:00 you mentioned earlier, read to kids tell me a little bit more about that.   Denise Meridith ** 53:04 Yeah, that's, that's my fun project. But I feel one I've been writing since I was 10 years. Well, probably before, but since I wrote my first book when I was 10 years old, right, dreading it, too. I was pretty good artists. But I'm concerned that people aren't. I think reading is the crux of a lot of things. Decision making, you know, rationality, everything, but my angle on it is in the past, parents rented our kids, it was one moment, you know, bedtime stories. One moment, bedtime alone, if your child quietly do something together. Now, it's pretty much an ima ComiCon fan, so not knocking marvel in particular, but now it's, you know, syndicated on another TV, watch Marvel until this time because parents are very busy. I got a lot of different jobs. It's just, to me, that's something that's been lost. And when I read the kids, us the mascot is my dog, my miniature poodle, airy, and he has five books on Amazon. And the adventures of airy are about what he's doing as he grows up so to speak. So   Michael Hingson ** 54:30 every right Harry writes his own books. Yeah,   Denise Meridith ** 54:33 he does a good job. This book sell more than my Yes. So his first haircut our first target went to the doctor right those types of issues, though he helps kids overcome those fears that they might have. But to be the key is there. I'm what I might our model is to read to a kid three to six years old 15 minutes a day. So you take that 15 minutes read in 15 Min. So we have a lot of authors in our group, you can read those books, 15 minutes. And that's just 15 minutes, which doesn't seem long, but it's, you know, face to face. Total attention, working on something together, and it just doesn't happen much anymore. Know what to say. And when we go to book shows or whatever, and type of thing, and so all the people that go to these giant, you know, now they still have a few, I was glad to find out a few giant book fairs going on. And one in Tucson, I guess. 100,000 people go to that one. It's pretty incredible. But everybody that will come up to our booth say, oh, yeah, my mom used to read to me. It's passed along. Yeah, passed along. And these people that are coming up to you are very educated, erudite people, right. So that's what I hope to do. And luckily, I had a RT O'Hagan and I'll give a shout out to him. He, during pandemic, he bought Aires books, and distributed them to nurses and hospitals. So that they could go home and read to their kids. And so you get nice letters. Oh, it's first time. My kid read out loud. Or it's the first time that ghost I hope that nice books that people would get some lessons from them dedicate my talk about? Oh, you didn't know that your kid was afraid of such and such? Yeah. You didn't know the kid was being bullied at school? Or you didn't know these things? It? Yeah. So it could open up a lot of discussions. So it's the region kids got us is that site. And it's just a little thing I do on the side. But I'm hoping it has some impact on parents, grandparents in particular, I thought grandparents were really sort of left out during COVID. You know, they couldn't even see anybody and got separated from their grandkids. My books are various books, obviously, you can get them on Kindle. You can get them on online. And so it's something that you can do now what technology you can do over what we're doing zoom, right. You can read to hear grant kid on the other side of the country through zoom. So that's what I'm hoping. Right now. I appreciate your asking about it. So the little thing I do on the side but reallocates us that's as my heart. It's something that I really like to see happen.   Michael Hingson ** 57:36 So how does the program work? What do you do?   Denise Meridith ** 57:39 What we do is just write books there online. And what we had breach over it, or we'll have starting again this year, is go to schools, you know, go to school, go to libraries. You know, Eric goes, I take Gary. And he goes, and we have, you know, the books there. And parents. Yeah, by the books we read. We have readings for our office from our, you know, our group COMM And I read some of the kids there, and whatever. So it's just getting kids excited about reading again. And parents like it too.   Michael Hingson ** 58:16 Alright, so I get to that is that is really cool. What books have you written?   Denise Meridith ** 58:20 I just have to have my own. But anyway, so he has five, but I have   Michael Hingson ** 58:26 He's got four paws though. So he's got a porter, right?   58:30 That's true thoughts, while chillin and a C h i l l i n what no G is really covers my career from being born in Brooklyn, I guess, up into my career through the Bureau of Land Management. So it's funny when you write something like that, and you call it an autobiography, because when you're young, you don't think you're gonna live that long. And then it was like, Gee, wow, I guess I had some more living to do I should write something else. So the other book is the sequel to that and it's called the year roof rat ate my dishwasher. Which people go I'd say what Okay. Roof rats are I don't know that their I guess their data. Arizona. I don't know. Anyway, we have roof rats here. A lot of people have different kinds of pests than their areas but we have roof rats, and they eat there. They have big teeth. And not like normal rats. They have big teeth. They climb trees and they eat through pipes. They eat through all kinds of things. So literally, the story opens so that book the first story is about the My dishwasher stopped working. And I had the guy come to repair it and he opened stuff up but he like jumps back and scrapes I go whoa. And he goes look at a pipe. So the rat should eaten through the PCV pipe. And that's why my dishwasher what's not working. And so what I wanted to do with this book is it's very much about Arizona. So it's an Arizona Survival Guide is what I call it. Arizona is a very particular place with very unique problems like roof rats. And so I talk about as a business person, how to survive here in Arizona, what kinds of things to consider and look out for. And I tried to tell people, it's a great place to live. People know that already. But there are some things that are different here that you have to look out for Scorpio, roof rats, rattle steaks, black nose, yeah, 115 degree temperatures now one ban. But I tried to keep it very upbeat. And I also tried to acknowledge people here in Arizona that are doing very positive things like McCain, I mentioned in there, people who, because Arizona doesn't get any recognition really has a very strange reputation outside of Arizona. And I wanted to get across that is very normal place. With it's a purple state that much into that, but it's we have people all kinds and all religions and all people think there are people of color hair for some reason, because it sort of looks that way if you walk through parts of Scottsdale, but it's gonna be majority minority state a couple of years. So there are plenty of people of color here. And it's just a wonderful place to live. So my second book while it's out, it's about me and people. I never hear what they've accomplished. It's also i My love you but who? Arizona.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:51 So do you see desert tortoises these days?   1:01:56 I hear are Phoenix not anymore? Because it's so built up? Yeah. But the thing is, Phoenix is also spread out, believe it or not, it's the biggest city now geographically in the country. surpassed LA. So now it's the biggest Yeah. And so around the edges, people live around the edges. So they see tortoises, but they also see coyotes and rattlesnakes. So I, you know, I had my years as a wildlife biologist, I don't need that anymore.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:29 Well, if people want to reach out and contact you, how do they do that? Okay.   1:02:34 Pretty simple. You could get my website that's about me is Denise. Meridith.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:41 Can you spell that, please? Yeah, I   Denise Meridith ** 1:02:43 was about to do that. Oh, great. Yeah, that's people fill it in correctly. So thats D e n i s e m e r i d i t h.com. Meridith is normally spelt with two E's, so I don't get much junk mail. But it's denisemeridith.com is my website. And you can sort of go from there links you to all things, world's best connectors is the wbcs.com. Again, and my ComiCon routine, but we're the WBCs that's what we pretend to be. But it's t h e w b c s.com. And that's the other site they can go to. And I really welcome people to go in and read to kids.us if you want to see airy, and hear about airy, and get some kids books, but I really want to encourage people to read to their children and read to their grandchildren. It's like a lot of stars, Michael. It's getting to be a lost art. And if   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:43 people go to our our show notes, and so on. You have some gifts that you're giving away. Yes,   Denise Meridith ** 1:03:49 yes, I have. It's called the we're talking about mentors, right. So it's called a mentors almanac. One of the gifts that I'm giving away in which you can, and what it is is 365 tips on how to be a great leader. And so I have a sort of a mantra every day that you can use, that you can use in helping you mentor other people, and also hopefully help yourself at the same time. And then people can call me and when they go to my site, they can get the phone number there too. And set up a call with me about coaching. Again, I have masterminds. I'm starting a mastermind here, probably the end of the month, so call me about that. And I also do personal coaching private coaching. And while I emphasize Gen X and baby boomers I you know, really executive coach for anyone. It's just those groups are pretty in need. Right now of that. I get it kids through my events, like world's best connectors through my events with the educational program. So I'm going to be helping kids. I'm not discriminating against younger people. I'm going to be helping them. But I coach, Baby Boomers and Gen X primarily. Cool.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:10 Well, again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun. Can you believe it? We've been doing it over an hour now, which   Denise Meridith ** 1:05:18 I appreciate it. It's, well, I went I'm once I met you, I know this is gonna be great. I think we're gonna stay in touch and do a   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:26 lot of good things. Well, I sincerely hope so and definitely want to do that. So I want to thank you again. And thanks for listening wherever you are, we really appreciate it. Whether you're listening or watching on YouTube or some other podcast source would really appreciate it. If you give us a five star rating we value your ratings very highly. And of course, needless to say, Love five star rating. So please do that. Love your opinions, any thoughts that you have about what we did today and we appreciate your opinions. If you know of anyone who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. Denise, you as well. Please let us know we're always looking for additional guests, people who we can have on to tell their stories and talk about what they'd like to talk about. If you wish to reach out to me you can do so by emailing me at Michael m i c h a e l h i, at accessiBe A C C E S S I B e.com. You can also go to our podcast webpage, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n So www dot Michael hingson.com/podcasts. And again, love those ratings really appreciate it. And we definitely want to hear from you and get your thoughts. So, one last time, Denise, I want to thank you for being here and taking so much time to be with us.   Denise Meridith ** 1:06:57 Thank you, Michael and I wish you continued success.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:07:03 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I

I had the privilege to have a sit-down, face-to-face conversation about Biblical Law and Teaching ("Torah") versus American Jurisprudence with California Attorney Iver Bye. Attorney Iver Bye has specialized in courtroom criminal law since graduating from law school in the late 1970s. If you perhaps find an interest in learning about Divine Wisdom, Teaching (Torah), and Law and how it relates to American and Common Law, then stay with us for this hour-long program. Attorney Iver Bye grew up in Spokane, Washington. After some 45 years in the legal profession, Attorney Iver Bye continues with his law practice in the area of Victorville, which is located in the high desert of Southern California in the USA. Join us for this Part One episode in addressing Biblical Law and Teaching (Torah) and American Jurisprudence. This is Real Israel Talk Radio Episode 145.

I had the privilege to have a sit-down, face-to-face conversation about Biblical Law and Teaching ("Torah") versus American Jurisprudence with California Attorney Iver Bye. Attorney Iver Bye has specialized in courtroom criminal law since graduating from law school in the late 1970s. If you perhaps find an interest in learning about Divine Wisdom, Teaching (Torah), and Law and how it relates to American and Common Law, then stay with us for this hour-long program.Attorney Iver Bye grew up in Spokane, Washington. After some 45 years in the legal profession, Attorney Iver Bye continues with his law practice in the area of Victorville, which is located in the high desert of Southern California in the USA. Join us for this Part One episode in addressing Biblical Law and Teaching (Torah) and American Jurisprudence. This is Real Israel Talk Radio Episode 145.Support the show

Yes, a long title but absolutely appropriate and worth it for this guest. Meet Joe Sherman. Joe grew up in a family being the youngest of seven siblings. His parents who had not gone to college wanted their children to do better than they in part by getting a college education. Joe pretty much always wanted to go into medicine, but first obtained a bachelor's degree in Engineering. As he said, in case what he really wanted to do didn't pan out he had something to fall back on. Joe, however, did go on and obtain his MD and chose Pediatrics. Wait until you hear his reasoning of why he wanted to help child patients over adults. Much of my time with Joe revolves around discussing the current status and future of medicine. Spoiler alert! I already invited Joe back for a second episode. He had a lot of good and interesting material to share and there was simply no way to get it all into one episode. I hope you will find my discussion with Joe Sherman beneficial, productive and helpful to you, especially if you are a doctor. About the Guest: Dr. Joe Sherman helps health professionals transform their relationship with the unrelenting demands of their jobs and discover a path toward meaning, professional fulfillment, and career longevity. He believes the key to personal and professional success lies in bringing “soul to role” in your medical practice. Dr. Sherman is a paediatrician, coach and consultant to physicians and healthcare organizations in the areas of cross-cultural medicine, leadership, and provider well-being. He is a facilitator with the Center for Courage & Renewal and a Master Certified Physician Development Coach with the Physician Coaching Institute. Dr. Sherman has been in pediatric practice for over 35 years concentrating on healthcare delivery to underserved and medically complex children in the District of Columbia, Tacoma, Seattle, Uganda, and Bolivia. He has held numerous faculty positions and is currently Clinical Associate Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Washington. Learn more at skyeteam.com Ways to connect with Dr.Joe: My website is: https://joeshermanmd.com/ LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/joeshermanmd Direct email connection: joe@joeshermanmd.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, everyone. Thanks for being here with us. We're glad that you're here. Wherever you happen to be in the world. I am your host, Michael Hingson. And you are now listening to or watching unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion, diversity in the unexpected meet. And unexpected is what we do most of the time. Anyway. So that's what we're going to do today, we get to chat with Dr. Joe Sherman, who is a board certified pediatrician. And he is also a certified master coach. And specifically, he is a master certified physician development coach, which is even more impressive sounding. We're gonna learn about that as we go forward. But I want to again, thank you all for being here. And Joe, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Thanks for being here with us.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 02:13 Thanks for having me, Michael. I really appreciate the invitation.   Michael Hingson ** 02:17 Now you're up in the Washington area, right?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 02:20 I am. I'm in Seattle, Washington, the land of cold freezing rain and clouds right now.   Michael Hingson ** 02:27 Ie up well, it got up to 64 today here where I am down in Victorville. And so I have little space heaters that are keeping the house warm enough that I don't have to turn on the gas furnace. And so that saves a bunch of money since everything here is in this new house is solar. We like that.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 02:48 That sounds very cozy compared to the rest of the country. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:53 at least it's it's cozy here. My cat likes it and Alamo, my guide dog like it so I can't, can't complain too much. Good for you. Well, why don't we start? Why don't you tell us a little bit about the earlier Joe Sherman growing up and some of that stuff?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 03:11 Sure, I'd love to. So I am originally from the east coast, from Washington, DC, and I'm the youngest of seven kids. And when I grew up in my family, it was all about get the education get the most education you can and achieve as much as you can academically to go as far as you can. Neither of my parents went to college. And so it was a big deal, especially for my father to make sure we we all went to college and and it really I think the message I got was find a profession and a job that you actually want to go into work every day to do.   Michael Hingson ** 03:54 How many of you were there? How many sores seven of us, oh my god and   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 04:00 and he worked for the post office and he had tough work tougher out there. But he was able to put five of seven of us through college and through our work and his work. But there definitely was a message that I went into college with which was at being the youngest of seven, wanting to do something different from the rest wanting to be better than the rest often because competition was big. And no one was in healthcare. And I really enjoyed this idea of trying to be of service to people. I enjoyed coaching sports, I enjoyed tutoring and, and being doing community service things. And I thought since I did well academically, Madison was a great route to go. So that's the route I took. studied engineering in college because my parents, and I decided you always want to have a backup in case you don't make it into medical school and engineering was a good, good way to get a job. And most of this stuff really is a preface to how much we follow the messages we were given by other people and the messages which have been kind of, programmed into us for better or for worse by people who really wanted the best for us. And for me, that was to go to medical school. And I thought that that would be a great profession, social status, income, helping people and giving me a certain amount of autonomy as far as where I would work and, and kind of what I would do. If those were the reasons I went in that direction.   Michael Hingson ** 06:00 It's interesting. I've heard so many times on unstoppable mindset and just other times in my life about how parents didn't go to college, and they wanted their children to go to college, and they were really committed to doing it. But I love the other part, which parents sometimes did, and sometimes didn't necessarily do, which in your case was find a job that you like and that you want. And I think that's really great. They were not only really committed to helping you go to college, but they wanted you to do what you found enjoyable to do, which is cool.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 06:38 Exactly. And they were very supportive. I have to say, since I was the youngest of seven, by the time I made it into college and was making my way through, they were getting older, and they were getting sick with different ailments to the point that my senior year of college, they both died. What year was separate incidences that was in 1980 1880, and 1981. So   Michael Hingson ** 07:12 did they're getting older and having illnesses in any way influenced you to being interested in medicine.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 07:20 My experience, I would say, with interacting with their doctors and the medical system, as they became ill and eventually died, definitely influenced the kind of doctor I became. And my approach to medicine.   Michael Hingson ** 07:40 Will Tell me more about that, if you would what?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 07:42 Well is almost a contrast of two extremes. My mother died of heart disease, and she was diagnosed with heart disease after I was born, and was in the hospital for months. And then the rest of her life, she struggled with congestive heart failure. She had a cardiologist to doctor who was actually a friend of the families. He was there with her every step of the way. The night before she died, I was in the hospital there, having then called back from school to be there because she was so sick. And he brought his wife to the hospital that night, to say goodbye to be with her, and, and to be able to talk to the family. And so shot was an example of a very supportive, compassionate physician accompanying someone at a tough time,   Michael Hingson ** 08:44 that had to have an impact on you. That was   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 08:47 a big impact. The other extreme was a couple of months after my mother died, my father had gone in for a procedure for finding blood in his urine. And eventually, he didn't know what was going on. And what the reason was. His doctor never told him but instead told me a 21 year old kid that he had metastatic bladder cancer and was going to die. There was no treatment for that.   Michael Hingson ** 09:22 I didn't why didn't he tell his patient?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 09:25 Well, I asked him that question. And I said, Well, I don't think my father knows the diagnosis, or that there's no treatment. Is there are you going to tell him? And he said, Well, I was a little worried that he might get too depressed since his wife just died. And I was not in medicine. I didn't know what I was listening to. But that doctor after two follow up visits after his procedure and diagnosis and Ever Told him and my oldest brother eventually had to tell him. And that was a very, very difficult time in my life when I was home over Christmas break, and I knew my father was going to die. And he didn't know. That really was the negative example for the kind of doctor I wanted to be. I want did not want to be someone that was dishonest with my patients that wasn't supportive of my patients that wasn't there to answer their questions and to accompany them at any point in time. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 10:45 In 2014, my wife became ill started with bronchitis and it kept getting worse. And we both had colds. And mine didn't last long. But she had been in a wheelchair her whole life, and tended to when she got when she got a cold or the flu or anything, she really got it. And so she ended up going into the hospital on a Saturday and the next day, they had to put her on a ventilator because it went into double pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome. And her lungs. And they told me it happened, like literally just in a few hours because they thought she had the flu. And she kept saying she didn't. And I knew she didn't. But anyway, her note lungs were more than 90% occluded. By the time they got her on a ventilator, and they put her in an induced coma. And the ventilator to start to try to clear out the lungs. They had to use a peeps level of 39 just to get air into her lungs. Yeah. You understand that? Because I guess normally peeps is the I forget what peep stands for. But it's basically the pressure that it takes to put air into your lungs. And it's normally between two and five.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 12:04 Exactly. Positive and inspiratory pressure.   Michael Hingson ** 12:09 Yeah. And she had 39 Everybody from around the hospital came just to see the gauges because no one believed it. But she survived. Wow. And the so the doctors were honest with me. And when they finally brought her out of the coma they had, they had given her propofol. So this was now with night it was 2014. So as long after Michael Jackson, but when she did come out of it, I asked her if she remembered singing thriller, or any of those kinds of things says she had propofol. But she, they also were very forthright with her. They knew that she understood her body. And we were very pleased at the fact that people were direct with her in a good way. But they they did not try to keep things from her.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 13:08 I think that's very important I, in my situation, it was as I started to go through medical school, especially in my clinical years, I used to go back as a medical student and sit with my patients and talk to them get to know them better. It was not just a matter of carrying out all of the duties that a medical student was supposed to do. But it was truly getting to know my patients as people. Yeah, not just diagnoses. And that was influenced a lot by what I experienced with my parents.   Michael Hingson ** 13:50 When I was going down the stairs getting out of the World Trade Senator, we had firefighters passing us and so on. And we asked what was going on. And they didn't tell us. And there were a couple of other times along the way that I asked people what was happening. And they said, there's just no time to really tell you, this is what you got to do. I also know that they probably did that with me and others because they didn't want to cause panic by saying terrorists and attack the towers. On the other hand for me, and they didn't know b Of course, I love information. And it would have been invaluable for me to know, because it would have actually made a difference in the decisions that we made and where we walked, which ended up putting us in more danger because we were very close to tower to when it collapsed rather than going a different way. And but you know, they didn't know me and I appreciate people not doing that. But I also think that we as a people can learn to accept information. But it is a problem that we have often that we we let unexpected things overwhelm us and Fear blindness as I describe it, as opposed to learning to control it, and it is, it is a problem. So, I would think that the doctors really should have understood or your doctor should have understood about your father, and it would have been appropriate and honest. But sometimes they're afraid to I guess. Exactly,   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 15:20 exactly. I think that was the situation that was, you know, as physicians, we are given a lot of power we are. And we are built up during our medical training to believe that we have the answers to always expect to have the answers. And when we don't have an answer, when we don't have a treatment or cure, then sometimes we feel like we failed in some way. And so being present to patients in that moment, can be very difficult for some physicians. For me, it's just a change in plan. It's a plan that doesn't involve an operation or chemotherapy, or whatever the treatments that would be futile otherwise, might be. But instead, the plan going ahead is to comfort patients and to be present to family members and answer as many questions as possible. And I think that that also is delivering medical care and to be compassionate to patients and families. I   Michael Hingson ** 16:46 have heard so many times when someone who has eye problems goes to see their ophthalmologist, and the ophthalmologist after doing whatever work they do, knows that this person is going to lose their eyesight. And they just say, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do. And they leave the room. And they're taught, I'm told oftentimes in the schools where they go, that if they can't save a person's eyesight, then it's really a failure. And we've got to somehow get away from those kinds of attitudes and ideas.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 17:29 Yes, I think this is something that everybody is different, you know, every physician is different. And I think a lot. I think something that's forgotten is that we all come into medical training, already with our demeanors our personalities, our belief systems, as well as our values. And we're taught to fit in a certain way, and behave a certain way in order to get to our destination, which is graduating from medical school, finishing a residency and getting a specialty. And during that process, many of us lose sight of who we are, what our values are. Because we've been given things to take on such as death as a failure, or you should always know the correct treatment. Otherwise, you failed certain amount of perfectionism a certain amount of European never, you're never going to know it at all. So you always are have to keep working, working, working and striving. It's Yes, it's a recipe for burnout easily. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 18:48 And nowadays, of course, in our sort of fractured chaotic society, on so many things in the medical environment in the medical world have become politicized, which has to really make it even harder for doctors.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 19:06 Yes, I would say I think for most physicians that I encounter, the the politics that that they wrestle with more than anything is the business of health care. How they can fit into the increasing corporatization of health care. Yeah. Coming from coming from a profession that is really meant to be human centered, and relationship based. But functioning within an environment of business and corporate gain is a cultural collision that many physicians are wrestling with now.   Michael Hingson ** 19:56 Yeah, I'm the in the insurance industry in the corporate business industry just seems to want to dominate and forget what medicine and the philosophy of medicine and being a doctor is really all about.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 20:16 Yes, I think it's, you know, it's it's a challenge, because in our country and the United States, healthcare is really a commodity that we purchase, just like everything else. It's not, it's not considered to be a right like a social, like a social benefit that government is responsible for. There are only select groups of the population that that is considered to be a responsibility of government. And even that is extremely politicized and charged. But because it is a commodity, to be bought and sold, right now we have medical groups, hospitals, health systems that are being bought and sold by corporations, venture capitalists, private equity firms, every kind of businesses that you can imagine. How   Michael Hingson ** 21:18 do you deal with the issue, though, and I've heard people argue this that, yeah, the whole idea of socialized medicine, and as in other countries, and so on, but we're more advanced, we've done more to contribute to medical progress here than anywhere else. And that has happened in part, because of the capitalistic way we do things and the business and competitive way we do things.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 21:44 Yes, I would say, for our situation in United States, as far as medical technology, advances in research, for the most technical specialized care, we have made amazing strides. Even since I finished medical school, I can't keep up with the amount of medical information that there is, and, and everything that's been discovered, and, and, and all the technology available in hospitals. However, if you look at primary care, and access to quality care, across the board for the entire population, we really have not made such great progress. And as far as developing countries around the world, we are decreasing in our progress as far as access and quality primary care for everyone.   Michael Hingson ** 22:48 Yeah, it is really strange. To see what's happened in the world of medicine, and so on, and I go every year for a physical and the physical is no more than a half hour, and then you're you're pushed out because the next person has to come in. And I know that it's not nearly as thorough as it used to be. But that's kind of the way it is. So I've had to spend time learning a little bit more about my own body and bringing any questions and so on to the doctor during the examination, or I do have email access. But still, we you're right, we were not. We're not progressing in that arena, like we really ought to, given the kind of country that we are.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 23:45 Yes, I think that's true. And I think because the technology of medicine has advanced so much and because communication as advanced so much has become so instantaneous. That that demands on all health professionals, not only doctors but nurses and, and technicians and, and everyone that encounters patients. The pressure and the amount of work that's now on our laps, has increased dramatically, especially in the last 20 to 30 years. And I think with the advent of the electronic health record, which is a wonderful resource as far as sharing information, but it's really designed for coding and billing and being able to document whatever you need to document in order to build correctly. It is not really designed to convey information about what you have found medically with a patient from one person to another. And this amount of information that is now coming to each physician, through the computer or through The patient portal, through messages through phone calls through referral demands through prior authorizations for medications and treatments, all of that comes to one place. And it's really hard for each physician to be able to attend to patients that are coming through the office, or the hospital throughout the course of the day, and also take care of all of this other administrative burden that's heaped upon them right now.   Michael Hingson ** 25:30 Yeah, and, and the other, of course, challenges as we have a society that is getting older with baby boomers and so on, the number of patients that doctors are going to have see is just going to increase.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 25:43 Yes, so there is there has been a movement in our country for what's called population based health management, which is not so much being paid fee for service meaning doctors traditionally have seen a patient of a certain complexity or a certain time, and is billed a certain amount of money for that visit, we started to move toward trying to keep people healthy, and not so much trying to get people in the office to see them again and again and again and again and Bill each time, but instead to get their overall health in line. So trying to look at the whole patient and try to prevent illness and also manage chronic illness well, whether they come into the doctor's office or not. And that's really what we've been trying to move toward. But again, like you mentioned, the politics of trying to get there has been a challenge. So we find ourselves stuck in between two different systems of healthcare.   Michael Hingson ** 26:55 What do you think about this evolving concept of telemedicine?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 27:00 I think telemedicine is amazing. I think that it has improved access tremendously. I think there are limitations to telemedicine. And I think that those things are, again, when you look at trying to get through the course of a day one medical provider, whether it be a physician, a physio, physician's assistant, nurse practitioner, trying to get all the work done for the course of a day. If you have to be attentive to who comes in the office, who then appears on the computer and then go back and forth and do all of these different things. It's just one more thing to be concerned about and worry about. However, I do know several physicians who have increased their flexibility, their amount of time they can spend with patients and are very pleased with the way telemedicine has opened those gates. So again, I think technology used appropriately and constant vigilance about how many people and what talents of people and skills are needed to handle all the information and work is that's something that we really need to keep an eye on and do a better job at managing   Michael Hingson ** 28:27 and a physician get as much information from a telemedicine visit or a tele visit as you can from having a person actually coming into the office?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 28:42 Well, it depends on what you're looking for. But I would say my experience being a doctor of going to doctors. I've been amazed at how little of a physical exam has actually done the course of visit. So I would say short of the physical exam. I think that a lot of information for certain complaints can be handled through telehealth. So I do think that that it's made tremendous strides. Mental Health, I would say has been revolutionized by telehealth. My wife is a psychologist, clinical psychologist therapist. And ever since the pandemic and the lockdown she does predominantly teletherapy now it's challenging. It's challenging to look at a computer should I much prefer the old fashioned way of adding a three dimensional being in front of me. But But still I do think that it has improved access for several people.   Michael Hingson ** 29:51 I guess I'm a little bit of an oddity compared to some because I'm I'm so used to working some in a virtual world but also not looking at people that talking to people on a computer never bothers me. Now I do a lot of traveling and speaking today. Or I'm, I have been, and we're ramping it up again after my wife passed in 2022. But I like in person visits for doing speeches because I can actually hear more of the audience reactions, as I'm speaking, which helps me fine tune a talk as I go along. And I don't get any of that, with being able to communicate on Zoom, because I don't get to hear audience reactions. What's fascinating in from the reason I said it, in part is, I've actually talked to a couple people this week, who can see, and who said the same thing, we really don't get to see the same level of interaction from doing speeches on Zoom, as we do from actually doing in person presentations. But I can see where the whole idea of telehealth and interacting over a computer can make life in some senses, perhaps a little bit better for physicians and certainly transmit the same or more information in the same period of time.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 31:17 Yeah, I think I'm all for improving access for patients, no matter what the modality is, again, as long as you have the correct and appropriate amount of people on the other end the handling the information and handling all of the requests that are being made.   Michael Hingson ** 31:41 Well, we've been kind of deviating from some of the stuff that I know we you and I had originally talked about. So I like to get back to you a little bit you went through and you got your degrees? And then what got you into pediatrics? Or what did you go from there? Well,   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 31:56 I think when I entered medical school, I was really drawn to a few different professions. One was medicine, one was teaching. And the other was counseling. I really enjoyed all of those types of interactions and relationship based professions. And as I went through medical school, I always loved kids, I always loved working with kids. And so I had my eyes on pediatrics the whole time. And I remember going through medical school looking for role models, looking for somebody who was a teacher and attending physician, someone who's in practice in the community, where I could look at that person and say, I can see myself doing what they're doing. I can see myself in them. And that happened finally with pediatrics. And I realized that I could do counseling, teaching medicine, all through pediatrics, I can counsel parents, I can teach students and residents. And I can use the knowledge and skills that I've learned in order to care for patients. And so that's what drew me toward pediatrics. That and that I can be funny, and I don't have to be serious all the time. When I see patients throughout the course of the day, that always helps.   Michael Hingson ** 33:27 Yeah, I mean, it is just no fun to have to be serious all the time. People don't always get that about me. But I think there's a lot to be said for having a sense of humor in a positive way. And as I tell people when we talk about them coming on the podcast, the only rule is we got to both have fun. So if you're not having fun, you got to say so so we can fix it. But we have to have fun otherwise what good is life? Absolutely.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 33:56 And what other medical specialty allows you to dress up on Halloween with whatever else you want to dress out and and go in and take care of patients. And so as a resident in pediatrics, we always came into the hospital dressed in costumes. And so that's that was always good time.   Michael Hingson ** 34:17 What was your favorite costume?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 34:19 Oh, I think one of my favorite costumes was one of the residents dress as a baby and complete with just a sheet on as the diaper as in the baby bottle and baby bonnet and the whole deal. So that was one of my favorites.   Michael Hingson ** 34:38 Did he talk baby or she talked baby? Just checking.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 34:44 Yeah, a little bit of everything. But it was just it's nice to be able to accommodate kids and parents at the same time. Parents reacted well to that too. They usually do because they want the bad As for their kids, yeah. And I think that anything that makes their child feel more comfortable, then they're in favor of,   Michael Hingson ** 35:09 will you have, you've traveled to various places, and practice still all over the world? Have you ever gotten tired or had real burnout from doing a lot of the medicine stuff or just dealing with people all day?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 35:27 You know, I have to say that I've been fortunate in my career to have had a variety of activities through the course of my jobs. Each job that I have had, I've been able to see patients teach residents and medical students participate in community activities and child advocacy activities. So that having that type of variety of activities has really sustained me in my career. And part of that has been experiences internationally. I was fortunate enough during my residency to spend a month in Bally's. This was in 1988, on the border of Guatemala, and Belize. And that's when I started to realize that medicine, healthcare in other countries is just not the same. And it's just fascinating to see how culture culture influences health care, and, and trying to learn from living in another country, especially a low to middle income country that were, you have to use more of your creativity, and more of your people skills to try to, to try to help as many people as you can. So ever since that first trip to Belize, I was hooked on international health. And so throughout my career here in the United States, mostly combining teaching residents in pediatrics with bringing them to the community and seeing where their patients and families live. I've always combined my work in the US with trips abroad, whether they be short term, one month at a time, or long term, we, my wife and I moved to Uganda for two years and work there doing HIV prevention from mothers to infants. And later, after we had our own children, we moved to Bolivia. And we lived there for four years, working with a mission organization, and getting to do a variety of activities, as well as living within the community that we were serving. So that's always been a major part of my medical career.   Michael Hingson ** 38:10 Have you ever experienced any kind of burnout or just being overwhelmed?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 38:14 Absolutely, absolutely. I would say I changed jobs, as some people would say fairly frequently, I never had one job the same job more than five years. Some of those moves, most of them were for other opportunities, or because of a plan that our family decided to, to move to another country, something like that. But I have to say that I have also had jobs, where the amount of work and the amount of responsibility I took on for myself became overwhelming. And I have the kind of personality that wants to fix everything for everybody, and try to make everything right for everybody. And that is a prescription for burnout. We don't learn in medical school or medical training, how to take care of ourselves, we learn how to take care of other people. And so when we don't do that, and we don't do it, well, then we lose the ability to take care of other people because we have no fuel in our own engines. So I learned the hard way I burned out, became very anxious ventually depressed, had to step away completely from medicine for a while until I was able to rediscover all of those values, all those things that brought me to healthcare and and really drew me in which was predominantly the relationships and we're Working with other people on a medical team and sharing the load. And I discovered that for myself, and now, I try to help other physicians to discover where they are really passionate in healthcare, where it is that they can bring who they are to what they do bring their soul to their role as physicians, is that kind of why you're most of my time to do now?   Michael Hingson ** 40:26 Is that kind of why you went into the whole idea of coaching? Absolutely,   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 40:29 absolutely. Facilitating retreats for physicians so that they can get away and spend the time reflecting on why they even went into medicine to begin with, as well as working one on one with career discernment. And trying to decide if where you are is the best place for you. And if it's not, then what you need to change externally and internally, in the way that you approach your job and your work.   Michael Hingson ** 41:03 Of course, that also has to be something that's done in a non judgmental way, because so often, we just always like to try to fix blame or blame someone or something for something. And that just doesn't help.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 41:19 No, I think that one of the greatest challenges for me, shifting from being the physician and treating patients, to being a coach is to let go of having all the answers to let go of having that prescription that of knowing exactly what's needed in the situation. Instead, I spend more time, inquiring, questioning, challenging, but realizing that the true creativity and wisdom comes from within the client I'm working with. So that is a challenge for me. And I work on it and continue to grow myself in that ability to attend to people without wanting to have the magic answer all the time.   Michael Hingson ** 42:10 Yeah. Well, and you're right. And my understanding of coaching has always been that you're asking questions, and you're trying to guide the client to discover the answers, because it's not your job to have the answers but to help people find the answers for themselves.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 42:31 Exactly, exactly. And I think this is a challenge when I coach physicians, because many of them come to me wanting answers. And the temptation is to say, just do what I did. But I know that when it comes to medicine and a career in healthcare, I was the exception. I was the strange, odd ball. I so I don't expect anybody to follow in my footsteps, I think that would be a wrong choice. I think. Instead, it's important for me to help people discover their own path. And to do that, in a humble and open minded way, way that is open to self awareness and personal growth.   Michael Hingson ** 43:23 How has COVID changed all of this and how you deal with people, what physicians are facing and so on. I mean, I'm I know, it's been very stressful. And during the height of COVID, thusfar. Physicians had to be incredibly overwhelmed. And the ones who especially were the caring, most caring ones, it had to hurt a lot. But I also suspect that it just numbed a lot of people who cared. And they just kind of had to go through the motions and do what they could.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 43:58 I think our experience of the COVID pandemic is very complex. And I think in some ways, all of the ills that our healthcare system was suffering. were revealed the curtain was pulled back, and people could see wow, you know, we weren't prepared for this. We already have a a staff of health professionals that were already burned out, we're already kind of operating on fumes and we push them even farther. And, for me, I still hold out hope that we're still examining that experience and realizing that we need to change things that we need to attend to the health and well being of our health care providers as much as we do our general population of patients. But I feel like so many people are traumatized that they feel like, let me just get back to something I called normal before. But what we're really looking for as a new normal, what we're looking for is post traumatic growth, not post traumatic stress, or just returning to the same old ways, really need to learn from our experiences, on a micro level, on a personal level, and on the systemic level.   Michael Hingson ** 45:32 I know, after September 11, I kept hearing people say we got to get back to normal. And I never liked that. And I realized and then started including it in speeches, normal will never be the same again, we can't get back to the same normal or the same thing will happen again. Normal will never be the same again. And it's just as true with COVID. You can't go back to normal, what's normal?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 46:01 Yeah, I mean, that's, I think, I think forever, people want to forget, they want to put that out of their minds and out of their out of their thoughts. But it's there, that experience is there. We were traumatized. I know, my kids were in school, throughout that entire time. They were traumatized. They, they had to change their entire way of going to school. And it was it was challenging as parents is for kids and for everyone involved. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 46:38 And the reality is change is something that happens all the time. We we, we don't like change. But we keep saying it's all around us, but we still don't like it. And the reality is, it's I think that the COVID offered us a lot of opportunities if we learned how to take them.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 47:02 Yes, they did. And I think I think we advanced in a lot of areas. But I feel like there are still several areas that we really, really need to take a hard look, I think right now, what's happened as a result of COVID is the acceleration of fuzziness, physicians and other health care providers leaving their professions. And we're going to go through and have are currently going through a severe health care provider shortage. And I know that people are starting to realize more and more when they try to call their doctor's offices and there's no one picking up the phone. It's because there's nobody home people have left. And it's hard to find people to replace physician, the nurse practitioner, Pa who has built up a practice and really has become skilled at what they do. It's better to try to provide the support they need to sustain them to keep them there. So that patients do have somebody to call somebody to see them when they're sick.   Michael Hingson ** 48:17 What do you see is what we should do to better help and deal with the health of physicians? And I'm, I guess, as part of that, I would also ask, What can we as patients do to help that process?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 48:34 I think that this is a great question, because my belief is now that until there's a patient uprising, and that patients, including those in government, start to realize that their own health care is being compromised, that we're not really going to make significant changes. I would say that there's changes that need to be made on a systemic structural level, organizational level, as well as personal changes that need to be made with each physician with each health care professional. I think personally, we need to take better care of ourselves. We need to be able to advocate for ourselves and to really be self compassionate, to let ourselves be less than perfect to let ourselves walk away from situations when we are exhausted and not try to overdo it. And to come up with methods of balance of choice for ourselves, set boundaries that we haven't set before structurally and organizationally. There is too much work to be handled by one person or the few people that do it. If you are in an in a corporation in technology, and you had developed and invented some new technology then You would have a whole crew of people around to try to take care of all aspects of that new product. Because now you do things a different way you've invented something different. So you need people who are specialized in those areas. Instead, in healthcare, we have the same kind of people handling so much more work. And it cannot all be done. For each physician seeing patients throughout the course of the day, there needs to be a person completely dedicated to handling all messages that come in all requests for referrals, for consultations, for prescription refills, and all of that, because the physician needs to be attending to patients that are there during the day. We also need people that are able to be experts and billing and coding and all of the things that the electronic health record is calling us to do. And we need to have flexibility and the amount of time that we have to spend with patients, it can't be this cookie cutter schedule, that gives the same amount of time for somebody with multiple complex illnesses, as we do with someone that has a very straightforward respiratory infection. So these are some of the changes that I feel we really need to make to catch up to where we are in the business of healthcare right now.   Michael Hingson ** 51:26 Are we making those changes? Are we making progress? You   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 51:31 know, very, very slowly and in small ways. When it comes to health care, now the business of health care, it's still the bottom line. It's still how much are you taking in compared to how much you're spending. And I would say, when you think about programs that make the experience for physicians and other health care providers, more tolerable, or even fulfilling, it ends up being last on the list. So I feel like there needs to be more pressure in this area. And that's where patients can help they can become advocates for their physicians for their providers, and try to ask, on a personal level, when next time you go in for health care, how are you doing? How are you holding up? How are you dealing with all the pressures that are on physicians these days, just inquiring, and knowing somebody cares about us is helpful. So I think that that's one small step people can do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:42 And I think it makes sense. You know, the personal relationship is a two way one. And so we need to care about our doctors, as much as we want them to care about us. It has to be a two way street. And again, hopefully we can do things to help make life more fun for them. I know for me, I have the advantage. When I do go visit my doctor even heard the fiscal physical every year, I take a guide dog with me, so he gets a dog fixing anybody in the office gets a dog fix. So we're, we're very popular when we go in.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 53:19 That's great. That's great.   Michael Hingson ** 53:20 We're gonna have   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 53:23 little dog fixes in every office.   Michael Hingson ** 53:25 Well, and and the director of medicine, where we go discover this and so there's a mandate that we need to let him know whenever we're going to come in so that he can can also come in and he'll stand in the doorway and won't let us out until he has enough of a dog fix. So it's really kind of fun. You know, and who can complain about that? I'm certainly not going to sites that's the dog loves it.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 53:56 That's fantastic. Personal Touch. That's great. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 54:00 I think it's it's something that you know, we need to do more of their people to and it I'm I'm of the opinion that there are so many people who do thankless jobs, I love to tease TSA people when I go through airports, and work to make them smile, because they don't get nearly enough of that. And mostly, I'm pretty successful. There are a few people who take themselves too seriously. But mostly we can do pretty well at it. And I can make people laugh like they'll they'll ask me for my ID and I say things like Well, why do you need mine? Did you lose yours? Or might have if I were a kid, I'll wear a mask usually and they'll say I need to see your ID and I said What good is that gonna be I got a mask on. You know? We have fun with it.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 54:46 That's good. It's good. It's always good to keep up the spirits. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 54:51 well, I got I love to laugh at it too. So it works out well. You know, in in this New Post COVID world I guess there are a lot of things are changing, I guess it's really fair to say maybe the real, really maybe the question to ask is, do we have a post COVID world? Is there ever going to be a post COVID world,   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 55:15 I think, in talking to my physician clients who are in hospitals, right now, they say that, across the United States, the wards are packed with COVID patients. And it's back, it's here, it's never left. There are different variants of COVID that are present. Immunization helps decrease the complications tremendously. The hope is that COVID will become another respiratory virus, like RSV, valenza, that we just deal with each year. As long as we keep vaccinated and keep up with those boosters, then I believe that that will decrease the amount of death and serious illness that we see from COVID.   Michael Hingson ** 56:09 Do you think that we're at some point, going to have a, I don't know, I guess it would be a live vaccine or a more traditional type vaccine that may help to do more to actually cure it, as opposed to just cutting down symptoms? And I'm man, I will say right off, I make sure I get vaccinated every chance I get.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 56:32 Yeah, I think each, each bacteria or virus that we have immunizations for are different. And so these respiratory viruses, such as influenza, COVID, they change so much, and they, they have so many variants, so many different mutations, variants, whatever you want to call it. So unfortunately, there's not one shot fits all certain bacteria that's different, or with other viruses like varicella, or herpes, or other things, other viruses that don't tend to have as many variances of a wide variety. But as we are right now with, with COVID changes so much that we're most likely going to have to have a different vaccine every year. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 57:34 I think it is absolutely amazing that we got the mRNA vaccine so quickly. And I know artificial intelligence, as they call it had something to do with helping with that. But it does say something about what we can do that we did get some backs on the vaccine so quickly. And I really wish some people who keep spreading conspiracies about oh, it's not really a vaccine, they're putting little radio monitoring devices in us, you know, and things like that would just stop that. It's it's doing such a disservice to everyone.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 58:12 Yeah, I agree. I think, unfortunately, there's a lot of mistrust within the healthcare system. And people have reasons to not trust. But I do think that that people who do spread false information that can be very dangerous.   Michael Hingson ** 58:31 Talk about having fun every time I go in for a vaccine. As soon as they give me the vaccine, I'll reach over if I have it in my right arm, I'll reach over with my left arm and slap my hand over the bandit and said, Oh, wait a minute, there's one that's trying to get away. Let me get it. And, you know, again, they think they get it in they laugh. Actually, one person wasn't sure what I meant and said there is no conspiracy. I said no, you missed the point. But, you know, I have had and my wife had no problems in dealing with the lockdown. She had rheumatoid arthritis. So it was an autoimmune thing that also made her more susceptible to such things and we were blessed at not getting COVID and and very glad to keep it that way. And you know, she passed just because she was in a wheelchair her whole life and her body just slow down and we lost her in 2022 so it's me and a dog and a cat. And none of us get COVID and we we don't mind being in the house so we're good. But I do I do get to travel now when I can find speaking engagements and I'm we're doing more of that. And I also travel on airplanes with masks. I don't see a problem with it.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 59:46 Yeah, I think seeing more and more people doing that routine.   Michael Hingson ** 59:49 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it works. Yeah, so it makes perfect sense to do. Well, how do you see Um, the whole evaluation process of what's happening in medicine, you know, going forward, what what are the major improvements that you think we will be seeing that will help mental health and everything else?   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 1:00:16 Well, wow, mental health, you just opened up a whole nother? Yeah, I know. But I would say, you know, we destigmatize mental illness as a huge goal that we need to do. And it the way life presents itself now is extremely stressful, and we all need support and help. Our brains were not, were not created to deal with such a flood of information constantly, and trying to sort all that out and it can become overwhelming. So I'm hoping that we can approach things from a compassionate, open minded point of view, to try to take care of everyone, both the health care providers, as well as the people that need treatment, and across the board the entire population. And that's really the direction that I'm hoping we all move toward.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:23 I think we have to, we have to do something. And you know, because the flow of information isn't going to slow down. Exactly. You know, we have been doing this for more than an hour. And we could go forever. But I would like to ask if we went ahead and stopped. But could we do another one and continue this discussion? Would you want to do that? I'd be willing to do that. Sure. Yeah,   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 1:01:51 I'd be happy to,   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:52 then I suggest let's go ahead. And I want to thank you for being on unstoppable mindset, I think it will be absolutely fun to do more of this. And I'm always fascinated to, to be involved in these discussions. And, and I think it's, it's great to learn, I learned a lot and want to continue to do that. So I think it'd be fun to have another one. And I believe that people listening will agree. So I want to thank you for coming on. And I want to also just thank everyone for listening. If people want to reach out to you, how can they do that?   1:02:24 Yes, they can check out my website, which is Joe Sherman md.com. That's my name, Joe Sherman, m d.com. And if you want to reach me directly, you can email me at Joe J o e at Joe Sherman md.com. And you can also schedule if you are a physician health professional, seeking help or support through coaching. You can schedule a consultation with me for free directly from my website. So I welcome any inquiries, or anyone out there that believes that they are struggling as a health care provider and needs support. I   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:13 don't know whether my cat would acknowledge that she could probably use some help in doing one thing or another. But she she thinks she's the boss. So I guess we have to contend herself with that.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 1:03:24 One, too. Yeah. Well, boss got   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:26 Yep. Oh, yeah. Oh, this one's acuity. She yells at me when she's hungry, and I have to go pet her while she eats. So she's pretty funny. But I do want to thank you for being here. And I want to thank you all for listening. Reach out to Joe. I'm sure that he has a lot of other kinds of things he can talk with you about. And if you are a physician or related in any way to that business, I have no doubt that Joe is a person who can assist a lot in dealing with questions and issues and everything else under the sun regarding all of this. So thanks for for doing it. I want to say again, thank you all for monitoring us and listening to us today. I'd like to hear from you. If you would be willing to feel free to email me with any thoughts or questions or comments, you can email me at Michaelhi, m i c h a e I h i at accessiBe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our website www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast. Most of all, we'd love it and really appreciate it if you give us a five star rating here on unstoppable mindset. So give us a rating and we'd love your reviews. And I've mentioned it a few times and I'll say it now at the end. I do travel and speak talking about teamwork and trust and inclusion and diversity and of course telling my story of escaping from the World Trade Center on September 11. And if you're looking for a speaker, please reach out love to hear from you. But once again, Joe, I want to thank you for being here and we will definitely set this up and do another one.   Dr. Joe Sherman ** 1:05:06 Thank you so much, my god enjoy   **Michael Hingson ** 1:05:13 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

     Marriage is a sacred bond. It requires trust, mutual respect, teamwork and intimacy.... just to name a few.  It's never perfect and it can be hard at times.  The story we are going to tell is about a couple who portrayed the image of the “perfect marriage”.  They seemed to “have it all”.  They were the “it” couple. However, behind closed doors they had a secret, one in which they didn't want anyone to know.  Despite this outward image of perfection, simmering seeds of resentment were growing.  This led to one having an affair that would take a tragic and dark turn....and ultimately the murder of one spouse.    Maybe you can say that this is a cautionary tale....one that unveils the contrast between what we see and the hidden chaos that unfolded in a seemingly perfect marriage.  This is Episode 38:  Unsacred Bond: The Murder of Robert Limon.Sources:ABC 20/20- “Unholy Matrimony” Season 45/Episode 26ROBERT LIMON Obituary (2014) - Victorville, CA - Daily Press (legacy.com)Robert Mendoza “Rob” Limon Jr. (1976-2014) - Find a Grave MemorialHow can you support us?Leave us a 5-star rating and review us! Tell others about our podcast.  We appreciate your word of mouth!Support the show

Make no mistake Katya Davydova has her own times of not being joyful and dealing with challenges. However, as you will hear on this episode, Katya works to create and spread joy. How? Well, it starts with a smile. I am going to leave it to her to tell you more. Katya was born in Uzbekistan and emigrated to America at the age of five. She says she always has been a curious person and became quite fascinated with how people interacted with each other. After obtaining a MS degree with highest honors in organizational development and knowledge management from George Mason University she began to work in earnest to help improve company organizational structures. She relocated to the Los Angeles area just before the advent of Covid. She not only has her “day job” concerning organizational development, but she also is a coach who is ready to consult with high achieving clients to teach them how to have better strategic thinking and how to create better micro-habits. Katya offers many positive and thought provoking life lessons we all can find useful. Along the way in our episode she also turns the tables and asks me questions related to our discussions. This episode is quite fun. I hope you enjoy it. About the Guest: Katya Davydova's mission is to create a more joyful world. She is an organizational and leadership development expert, igniting workplaces like Google, Netflix, and Dropbox, where humans can flourish. As an expert facilitator, she teaches managers, executives, and individual contributors essential skills like strategic thinking, communication, and feedback. Katya is also a coach for high achievers, empowering them to bridge the gap between best practices and actual follow-through by sustainable, micro-habits. Her first book, Joy in Plain Sight, explores celebrating wonder in the ordinary against the backdrop of our always-on, always-busy world. A believer in big ideas that can make ours a kinder world, Katya has the honor (and sheer fun!) of speaking to audiences about organizational development, human flourishing, and habit-building (especially on joy!). She's presented at engagements like The Massachusetts Conference for Women, Chief Learning Officer Exchange, ODinLA, and is a TEDx speaker. Finally, she loves learning. Katya received her BA in cognitive science and psychology from the University of Virginia (Echols Scholar, Phi Beta Kappa), and her MS with highest honors in organizational development and knowledge management from George Mason University. Her prior expertise is in people operations, learning and development, higher education, and consulting. When she's not working, you can find her exploring both city streets and especially wild trails, adding to her collection of plants, and learning about people in their everyday moments. Ways to connect with Katya: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katyadavydova/ Contact: katya@katyadavydova.com Website: https://katyadavydova.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joyinplainsight/ Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZDPJ23L/ Newsletter sign-up: https://katyadavydova.us20.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=8a2e9cd879ce206da20e2fd22&id=401d3a17f7 Other Links/work: About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes **Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. **Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, and guess what? Yes, you're right. It is time for another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion diversity in the unexpected wheat, whatever that may be in whatever we may encounter. Today we get to chat with Katya Davydova. And I love something that Katya Katya has on her bio, which is that she wants to create a more joyful world. And it doesn't get better than that I like joyful worlds. And all that goes with it. I think we spend too much time grousing and complaining about all the things we don't have control over anyway. So for me, it's always don't worry about what you can't control focus on the things you can and the rest will take care of themselves, which I think is always true. However, we'll see what Katya has to say about that. Anyway, welcome to unstoppable mindset. **Katya Davydova ** 02:08 Thank you so much, Michael. It is truly a joy, a delight and a pleasure. All three of the trifecta to be here. Thanks so much for having me. **Michael Hingson ** 02:14 Well, I really appreciate you agreeing to do this. And coming on. Why don't we start with talking about kind of the early Catia growing up and all that stuff? **Katya Davydova ** 02:23 Sure. Sure. Shall we begin from 13 point 8 billion years ago, the Big Bang? **Michael Hingson ** 02:28 We can do that? A very long time. How sure are you it was only 13 point 8 billion years. And **Katya Davydova ** 02:35 now you're asking the real questions. And are there multiple universes? The Quantum? Right, let's go there could be definitely good. I think just to keep it like you said what's within our control? Control? Happy to start at the beginning. **Michael Hingson ** 02:50 time ago. **Katya Davydova ** 02:54 Exactly. So the words right out of my mouth, Michael. That's exactly right. But I'll give the overall executive summary. And it's so funny to hear myself say the word executives, I work with executives that just did yesterday and bled over but anyway, was born in Uzbekistan, which was at the time some people have called it a third world country, I think the term now is developing or developed, developing rather country. And it was a time of darkness. And then I came to the States. Happy to happy to carry the conversation, Michael, where you would like for it to go? How do you **Michael Hingson ** 03:30 go ahead. So tell us about you know, maybe what you remember a little bit about growing up in this Mecca, Stan? And then coming here and what it was like and all that. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So I framework is it were **Katya Davydova ** 03:41 a framework, I you know, I love a good framework, honestly, what we'll talk about frameworks and principles in a little bit. But as a kid, I was used to, I guess, I was gonna say I was used to like not having too much, because, you know, we grew up in a little bit of, I don't call poverty necessarily, but not not having as much abundance as a, quote unquote, traditional American childhood might offer. But we my family, and I were lucky enough to emigrate to the States when I was a kid. And came here not knowing a lick of English except for please, and thank you. And where's the bathroom? **Michael Hingson ** 04:18 There are three essential, that's important one, too. Yeah, of **Katya Davydova ** 04:21 course, of course, he got to know where the important places are. And there's a little bit of gratitude and asking for help. And so as a kid here in the States, I landed, McKinley landed in Virginia and just kind of started living. I remember, if you're talking about pivotal moments, I remember walking into a grocery store, and being absolutely astounded by the selection and the array of things available for purchase. Right. And as Becca Stan, we had to stand in line for food, because that was the reality. And in America, you could buy like 16 Different kinds of apple at your whim. It was incredible. **Michael Hingson ** 04:56 I was amazed when we moved to New Jersey and lived there for six years. yours went into the store the number of different kinds of loaves of bread, the different kinds of bread. Much different than here in California. **Katya Davydova ** 05:09 Yes, yes. Would you say that? It's more in New Jersey in California? Oh, lots more. Yeah. Really? Why do you think that is? **Michael Hingson ** 05:16 I don't know. I never could figure it out. But there was a lot more different kinds of bread. And they were all very tasty but different, a lot more different kinds of bread, I think. And maybe it's the Italian influence. Who knows? Maybe **Katya Davydova ** 05:27 Maybe New Jersey puts the new and new loaves of bread in New Jersey. Good be? Yes. So similar to that, right? Just the whole bushy tailed, bright eyed person looking at a grocery store store aisle. But as a kid, I just I love to play, you know, as any child would like to play, got good grades went on to do well in school, and was really driven by noticing how people interact and helping to facilitate those kinds of interactions, relationships. In fact, I've been a peer mediator since fifth grade. I think that really paved the way for being in the service of other people, right, wanting to help others thrive. **Michael Hingson ** 06:09 So why do you think that you develop that interest? **Katya Davydova ** 06:14 Yeah, it's a good question. I grew up as an older kid. And I think I was an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert. But I was definitely very social with a healthy dose of shyness, right? Because I was like, Oh, I don't want to make too much of a ruckus. And I remember as a kid, I would always interact really well with adults, like at a dinner party. If my parents were having friends over. At school, I would I remember in third grade, I was asked to facilitate a group of adults who were visiting from some Russian speaker Slavic speaking country, I was asked to like, facilitate their visit. I was like, okay, like I can get along with adults. This is easy. Sometimes getting along with fellow kids was sometimes a challenge don't always, you know, I got bullied just like any, any other kid or most kids, but was able to really dive into exploring conversations. And I think the why is that and not to sound self aggrandizing. But I I am a deeply curious person, and I love understanding how the world works. Which Michael, I know that it is something that you and I share. **Michael Hingson ** 07:20 We do. And it's It's always fascinating to learn more about how the world works and when to make new discoveries and just get more insights to isn't definitely **Katya Davydova ** 07:31 definitely for sure. That's overall synopsis of little little young Katya. **Michael Hingson ** 07:37 So you went through school, went through high school, cope with all that survived was all that in Virginia. **Katya Davydova ** 07:42 That was all in Virginia. Yes. Right outside of DC. **Michael Hingson ** 07:46 What did you do for college? **Katya Davydova ** 07:48 I went to UVA, go, who is love my bajos? Yeah, and I studied cognitive science, psychology and Russian there. So I had a double major and a minor. And did a thesis, you know, is on a lot of like, a lot of clubs, a lot of committees, a lot of leadership organization. And just really, I really think I maximize my college experience. Now people always ask the coffee, what do you regret most about your college experience? Or what do you what do you wish you'd done more of? And honestly, I wish I partied more like, I probably did enough as it was, especially my first year of college. But I took school very seriously. And, you know, to dwell on it. But I wish I had spent a little bit more time partying. I don't know, I don't know if people say that. Typically. I **Michael Hingson ** 08:33 don't know that they do. But I I appreciate it and understand what the reality is that that college and the whole social life is part of what we should do. Do you think that you know, I've had some people be guests on unstoppable mindset who said that? They didn't think that college really prepared them for life that it was way too theoretical? What do you think? Interesting concept? I mean, **Katya Davydova ** 09:00 it is, Michael, before we dive into that, do you have any theories? Or did they share any theories on why it was too theoretical? **Michael Hingson ** 09:09 They just felt that faculty and so on, we're not really from the working environment that they they came from a college environment, they didn't really have a lot of exposure to the rest of the world. Yeah, and I can see that in some kinds of colleges, maybe some of the more advanced theoretical universities, but community colleges, maybe to a little bit lesser degree, the state colleges probably had more people who did spend some time out in the world and maybe they would be different. That's kind of my perception. **Katya Davydova ** 09:43 Yeah, that's that's a great hypothesis. I can see how, you know, potentially on both sides of the spectrum, there's that sentiment. I think that UVA actually prepared me really well for school. I will say that the location of it right in Charlottesville, Virginia was very warm. Not very, it was insular to a degree, it felt like a bubble because it was beautiful, blissful place where, of course, you know, bad things, of course happened. But I felt very in community when I was both undergrad there. And also when I came back to Charlottesville as an adult, and I mean, my high school prepared me really well for college though, like I was used to the, to the, to the hard work aspect. But I also did a lot of things besides classes, like I had a bunch of internships, I volunteered, had this amazing volunteer experience with it was for specifically for men with comorbid, schizophrenia and substance use disorders. And it was Psychosocial Rehabilitation. So imagine this, like 21 year old girl who's just like, rash and really brimming with excitement, coming into the space where there was, there was a lot of pain, and there was a lot of struggles with, with substances with alcohol. And I was like, wow, we can really, we can really see these humans for the human aspect of it. Right, not, not the some of their past stories, necessarily. And it was just such a delightful and expansive time. I remember that as a very crucial part of my last year of college, **Michael Hingson ** 11:15 you kind of wonder, why is it that some people go that way? Why do they over indulge in alcohol, much less drugs and so on? It's, it's a fascinating question, that I've, I've never experienced any of that. I've never been drunk, I have no desire to be drunk. Although I'd love to say that. I feel sorry for people who don't drink because when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel for the rest of the day. But I don't listen to too much Dean Martin, what can I say? But, but seriously, I, I've never understood it. But I, I do appreciate that a lot of it has to do with covering up and just trying to hide from, from the world. Yeah. **Katya Davydova ** 11:58 Could be I mean, there's, there's, there's so many factors, right? There's the family history, there's genetics, there's nature versus nurture. My, my goal is to not not blame because I don't know, circumstances. And **Michael Hingson ** 12:15 more understand than blame, I think blaming doesn't help anyone. Exactly, **Katya Davydova ** 12:19 exactly. But I think that just opened my eyes to the different ways that people show up and the different kinds of lives that that people have. And it also made me I don't wanna say realize, because I've noticed before, but it also affirms how incredibly privileged I was, and am right to this day that I'm healthy, I'm generally happy. I've got a loving support network, a loving system. And I am lucky to have had the opportunities that I've had both in education in grad school and work and relationships and the things I do outside of work, like, there's so much to them, which to be grateful for really, **Michael Hingson ** 13:00 you know, I think a lot about being blind and not being blind. But one of the blessings that I feel I have is having never really dealt with different color skins. It's strange to me that people can be so antagonistic toward people who have different skin colors, simply because of the color of their skin for me, I don't care. I've never seen different skin colors. And I and you know, I don't know what it would have been like if I had been able to see. But I would like to think that I'm a little bit smarter than that, and really don't think that it really should matter. **Katya Davydova ** 13:38 Yeah, yeah. Michael, how do you think that's played out in your relationships? Because you're literally like, you cannot see color? Right? So like, how has that shown up for you? And what has been the benefit to you and your relationships? **Michael Hingson ** 13:50 Well, so first of all, intellectually, I understand colors being I have a, I have a master's degree in physics, so we could talk about wavelengths and all that all day long. And so I understand it. And I appreciate that there are different skin colors, intellectually, but it's the emotional part. So for me, it has never been an issue. And I've been able to walk around New York and places where people say, but you don't want to go there. Because different racism. And all that night and kind of my position is well, you know, I don't want to go where somebody's gonna hate me. But at the same time, I think that a lot of the way that we behave, determines how people behave toward us. And so I've just never really been bothered. **Katya Davydova ** 14:35 Yeah, I'm really struck by what you said, the way that we behave oftentimes reflects on how other people behave towards us. Can I tell you a quick story about that? very recent. Last night I got back from a very, very long day, I was facilitating an off site workshop on feedback scales for an executive team, and just had a whole whole bunch of things. I was out for like almost 12 hours, and then I had to come Hold it like actually start start the work right. So I booked my day job work and my other work. And I remember just sitting there as like I have so depleted I wanted a nap I wanted to eat. But okay, I won't take a nap. I'll eat of course. But let me just give give myself the gift of a walk before I dive into work. Because now it took, you know, several decades to know that you should always push your body and your brain to 100% of the time. Yeah, every single day. At the lesson that I still struggle with, we can definitely come back to that. But as I was taking this walk, I remember just being so radiantly happy, just ongoing and marveling at the world by it was golden. Our folks were out and about on their evening walks, I went to the dog park, there was so many puppies there. And it well, several came over and sat down next to me. And as just kind of walking through the streets like galavanting, right? with a huge grin plastered on my face is just genuinely happy to be here be alive in this world. And so many people, mild back waved from their cars, like honk just just like exchanging these little micro moments of connection, I got to talk to somebody from their car, we're like, looking at those little robot delivery robots are the food delivery robots, and just creating these pockets for micro interaction among strangers, right, that makes you feel or that made me feel a lot more rooted. Yeah, genuinely rooted. **Michael Hingson ** 16:27 In the very fact that you can do that and going around with a smile, this is always a much better way to to be anyway, and it does affect your outlook. And people will react to that. And they'll react typically in a positive way, which is so great. Yeah, **Katya Davydova ** 16:44 yeah, I think there's just true, I'm leaning more into this now more and more, especially the last couple of months and potentially years is, how do I reflect outward, the best of my experience of the world and the best of myself, so that other people can be, I'm not going to try to make anyone feel any sort of way, but maybe to inspire maybe to put a smile on somebody else's face. That's something that I have loved leaning a little bit more into. One of **Michael Hingson ** 17:14 the lessons that I've learned from working with a number of Guide Dogs is that they really take on or are affected by the, their handlers, they're humans. And if you tend to act very nervous and very stressed all the time, or if you suddenly are walking with them, and when you get lost, or you think you're lost, and you're stressed, they're going to react to that, because guiding is a very stressful job. And people who truly learn to understand the whole aspect of dealing with the dog. Know that, that for the most part, and there are exceptions when a dog is abused or whatever. But so for the most part, they want to please they know they want you to tell them the rules, and they want to be able to, to obey the rules and do the right thing. And if you act positive, if you don't act panicky and you don't act stressed, then they're going to be happier, and they're going to do better. And I have no better example of that than escaping from the World Trade Center. I could have been very stressed going down the stairs and been very nervous toward Roselle. But I knew that what I needed to do was just continue to tell them what a great job good job keeping what a good dog and, and that, in turn, as I did that, and she detected from me that I was okay. She was okay. So that if something were to suddenly happened in something affected her immediately, I wouldn't know okay, something's not right here. But it's not the dog. There's something else going on. But otherwise, interacting is such an important thing. And, and I think that's just as true with the people or person to person interaction. You react positively. And so once you actually Asli for the most part, unless somebody is just really not connected, then they're going to react possible. You can be too. Yeah, **Katya Davydova ** 19:04 yeah. Michael, I love that you share the story of you and Roselle. And I also know that your current guide dog is Alamo. Right, right. **Michael Hingson ** 19:11 Who is over here asleep on the floor? Oh, four. **Katya Davydova ** 19:14 Oh, my gosh. I'm very curious. Do you feel that? I mean, I think the answer is yes. I was gonna ask the question like, do all of your or have all your different guide dogs have had different personalities? Oh, yeah. And if so, like, how? How do you either build off of that? What did the interactions feel like to you to all your dogs? Can you tell us a little bit more about that I'm still **Michael Hingson ** 19:37 building a team, right? And working with a guide dog is creating a team. So in every case, it is still they want a team leader and I know that that has to be me. And what I need to learn are the gifts and the strengths of each dog hands and they figure out what works with me as well and the strengths that I have. But if if I am in consistent when I don't always behave in a good way toward them, then they're going to be frightened or they're going to develop a fear on that side a bit thing. Yeah. So So for you, you you prove that last night with your walk? **Katya Davydova ** 20:13 Yes, yes. proved it over and over again, right? Because the more goodness we put out into the world, the more I think we feel richer on it. Yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 20:21 So you you went to college down? Did you get an advanced degree or just naturally sort of, I **Katya Davydova ** 20:27 know, I went to grad school, I have a master's in organizational development and knowledge management, because to trace the story there, after undergrad. So for the first 22 years of my life, I was convinced I was going to do a PhD in Clinical Psychology and go be a clinical psychologist to help other people with their challenges. And then I did a thesis my last year of college, and I decided that shout out to all my PhD errs, I have a couple of friends who have either just finished or in the middle of PhD programs, I decided that I did not want to spend seven years six, seven years in a windowless basement like I had my last year of college collecting data that is ultimately such a deep dive, but not a broad dive, I saw that that the impact that one piece of research, aka my piece of research, the impact wasn't going to be as broad or expansive as I would have liked it for it to be. So I decided to xA going to get a PhD in clinical psych, and said sold my soul to consulting, which a lot of people did. I promised myself I wouldn't, but I did. But in that organization, and in that job, I learned what it means like to feel a cog in a machine and to feel as just a mechanistic part of an organization versus a valued human. Like, of course, I had amazing co workers and I had well, I had amazing co workers. Gonna say things about bosses, co workers. Yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 22:01 And some bosses can be good if they really understand what it means to be a boss. But that's a different story. **Katya Davydova ** 22:05 Yes, I think it is that and I also think it's the systemic structure of the organization. So the way that that organization was structured was not systemically designed to amplify the individual gifts of people. It was meant to squeeze out all of the labor that they could. But I don't think like I'm not not trying to badmouth them. I think that's the the design of a lot of organizations today. Right? Like truly, and I study organization, so I see it in real time. So what's **Michael Hingson ** 22:31 the other side of that? Is that that when that's all they do, they tend not to value nearly as much the human aspect of the companies go toward being a less human oriented and less person oriented organization. **Katya Davydova ** 22:47 Yes, yes, exactly. And that's not to say that, like, that experience didn't give me so many valuable experiences, like I got to be one of the only folks who got to travel internationally, right, I got to do really impactful projects, I gave you a lot of skills that I still use to this day. But what it also opened my mind to was the fact that if we work for the majority of our lives, we should be doing work that feels joyful, meaningful, purposeful, and ultimately, uplifting. Not a nowadays, of course, but for majority of the time, because that's our livelihood. And so I decided to switch jobs to get referred into a job in higher education. So I mosey back down from DC to Charlottesville, Virginia, but at the same time had applied for grad school in organizational development and knowledge management. So it's commuting back and forth on the weekends for in person classes while working full time and living full time in the middle of Virginia. So those two years were just two and a half years were an insane flurry of activity of full time work full time grad squads do Toastmasters, which is a public speaking organization with working out with managing like, or navigating a long distance relationship across the country. It was a lot. It was it was a lot and what a bountiful season that was. **Michael Hingson ** 23:59 Yeah, long distance relationships can be a big challenge. Definitely, **Katya Davydova ** 24:03 definitely. Yeah, we had started out as, like medium distance and then get moved across the country and was like, Okay, well, that was just okay. Yeah, good lesson. He's one of my best friends to this day. I love him with all my heart. He's an amazing human. **Michael Hingson ** 24:20 He's he's still across the country. No, no, we **Katya Davydova ** 24:23 live in the world. We used to live in the same city. Now he's in a different city, but we see each other occasionally. **Michael Hingson ** 24:29 Yeah. Did you ever develop a family or is it still just you? **Katya Davydova ** 24:34 It's still just me. I am very blessed by the people that I have in my life, the relationships that I have friendships, but I feel very I **Michael Hingson ** 24:41 kind of figured out because you talked about taking the walk yesterday and that was my impression, but still, having relationships and having good positive relationships and long term ones are still very important things to happen. And **Katya Davydova ** 24:55 I agree. I agree. So you **Michael Hingson ** 24:57 got your you got your masters do write them. What did you do? **Katya Davydova ** 25:02 Then I realized that, you know, I've got my master's, the work that I was doing in higher education, which was helping high school students and their families build up a good profile, a good set of activities, a good sort of pathway towards competitive college admissions. That was all fine at all, but I needed more impact. And I quit that job after finishing grad school. And I decided to kind of say, eff it. We're moving across the country because I had visited Los Angeles a couple of times when I was in grad school and working full time, and I just absolutely fell in love with the city. It was something that was so vibrant, so sunny, the people were nice, the mountains were so close by. And I remember I was on a run in Los Angeles in December 2018. And I remember looking at over the think was the five is one of the freeways I remember looking at it over the five is like, I am so darn happy. Like, this is just this moment of elation that this is where I needed to be. And then six months later, I drove across the country to land in LA and have not looked back for a number of years now. It's been a magical journey since I **Michael Hingson ** 26:15 wake up to the Hollywood sign every day. Yeah, **Katya Davydova ** 26:17 that's my window. No, truly, I really do. I wake up and like, there it is. Hello, Hollywood. Yeah. And I just the reason I'm sharing the story about moving across the country is because there was an ethos in me that was present and that had been building, which perhaps some listeners can resonate with. The ethos was this, she dreamed it. So she did it. Right. It's kind of like, if I was 111 years old, on my deathbed looking back at my life, what are the things that I wish I would have done? What are the things that I wish I would have said? And, you know, I read a lot about like books on studies on Regrets of the Dying or things that people wish they would have done. And, you know, I wish I worked less. I wish I spend more time with loved ones. I wish I took more risks. So I decided to really lean into that and just said kind of, let's do it. Let's just start a new adventure. **Michael Hingson ** 27:11 isn't nice and toasty down there today. **Katya Davydova ** 27:13 You know, today is the perfect day of its thinking that low 80s It's going to be a scorcher this weekend. Somewhere in the 80s. Yeah, I've got Yeah, friends in Sacramento. They're like, yeah, it's 108 Sounds like **Michael Hingson ** 27:24 oh, yeah, yeah, they Well, but they're hot air comes from the cabin. So it was a different story. But yeah, but I it's like 93 here in Victorville. Yeah, supposed to get hot too. So we'll see. Wow, **Katya Davydova ** 27:38 thank goodness for AC right. **Michael Hingson ** 27:41 You better believe it? Oh, my goodness, **Katya Davydova ** 27:43 my I live in a historic building. And it doesn't have AC in the living room, the dining room, which is where I work from. So lots of fans. So we're just we're circulating air here. But well, and fans help a lot. Yes, they do. I am their number one fan, a fan. I get it. Know You're a huge putter and a joker. So **Michael Hingson ** 28:05 I get it. So you move down here? And what did you start to do that when you started your own business, **Katya Davydova ** 28:10 right the systems, the processes to help people thrive at work, because that's, you know, my degree was very much into that. And I loved it, Michael, like it was such an incredible time to be able to build so I built out an onboarding program, a Learning Development Program, performance development, really helping folks thrive. And months and months later, the pandemic had just arrived in LA was just kind of getting settled, making, you know, friendships and relationships. And then we experienced this huge, like, blow out right of the world. And a month after that, a month after March 2020, my company merged with another company. And so there was layoffs, there was restructuring. It was a pretty dark time, to say the least a very, very dark time. **Michael Hingson ** 29:00 What did you do? **Katya Davydova ** 29:02 cried a lot. I think so I think a lot of people did felt the way to the world and realize that. Yes, the world absolutely feels exorbitantly heavy. Yes, I was pulling 15 hours a day working on my own work on side projects on just like trying to run on the wheel of productivity. I remember when we talked about briefly, how I kind of alluded to the fact that it was difficult for me to relax. Still very much the case but during that time, especially in the 2020s 2021 22 very, very difficult to do so because there was always more to do always wanted to be done. Yeah. But I realized that that's not sustainable. And I was extremely burnt out. So I couldn't go and we were some of the hiking trails were closed because I would let off steam by hiking running. They were closed. And I was like, Okay, I gotta do something within my locus of control. Again, going back to our initial conversation, and I just began taking walks around my neighborhood before work during work after work, and just noticing all of the ordinary things that were ever present, but really spending delivered a time and attention on them and seeing what I what meaning I could impart from those things. So just today I was thinking about this, I stepped on a really, really crunchy leaf, and it just like, Oh, it is so crunchy like, scent and tingles down my spine, things like that, right? Things that we just like, encounter in everyday life that are so plain so quotidian. What if we could really revel in their in their ordinariness? So **Michael Hingson ** 30:36 you? You put up with a lot with all of that, and how have you come out of the COVID environment than some of them? Yeah, **Katya Davydova ** 30:44 I think we came out of it pretty darn well, I, when my company merged with the other organization, that was also a lot of work, because again, went from being a team to being the sole person says, heading learning and development was also doing People Operations. Really good opportunity to develop rogram programmatic, I guess, scale to like, really build a program for a 400 person, international global company, of how to actually build systems, processes and micro habits in place so that people can learn, right, because I think we are nothing if we don't learn if we don't stay curious. And during that time, when I was exiting that job to go work elsewhere, I also decided to write a book, because I was approaching a milestone birthday. And I'd wanted to punctuate that period of my life with an exclamation point, versus just our standard ellipsis. Right, one year into the next I was like, No, I want to make this big go out with a bang. And decided to write a book, because that was a very, very hard thing. And never done before I you know, I have written for the majority of my life, but writing a book is different. It's different. It's very different. So yeah, and started my new job, started the book and moved in with my then partner all in the span of one month. And that was such a beautiful, expansive, wondrous season. I was very grateful for that time. **Michael Hingson ** 32:18 And so what exactly are you doing? Yeah. So **Katya Davydova ** 32:22 right now, I work as a leadership facilitator, where I teach managers and executive executives leadership skills, and I'm also a coach for high achievers to help them get from where they are to either a higher place or however they define that, or to a place of more calm, more peace, especially for my fellow high achievers can be very difficult for us to relax, but really helped them with building out those micro habits sustainably, so that they actually enact behavioural change that they would like **Michael Hingson ** 32:49 to see. So are you doing this for someone else? Or in your own business now? **Katya Davydova ** 32:52 For myself? Okay, so **Michael Hingson ** 32:55 you have now branched off and taken the leap into your own business. You paperwork in all the forms that the California Secretary of State requires? **Katya Davydova ** 33:06 Well, this is a it's a to be to be expanded type of deal, because I saw my day job. Yeah. Okay. A lot of effort there. **Michael Hingson ** 33:16 So what's your day job? **Katya Davydova ** 33:19 So I leadership, trader, learning experiences for managers and executives, I teach things like influential communication, feedback, strategic thinking, like yesterday, I taught a I don't want to say the name but a famous well being health company. And it was just really, really cool to be in a space with the executive team with, you know, the CEO at the helm. And it's like, wow, we get to talk so meaningfully about things that actually matter. How do you build a sustainable feedback culture at this young organization? How do you as leaders model these behaviors that repple down to the business down to the organization, that's a deeply deeply meaningful work? **Michael Hingson ** 34:01 So you you do a lot of different things relating to organization development, your speaker, you're an author and so on. What's your core motivator? **Katya Davydova ** 34:12 I think it goes back to your beautifully articulated beginning sentence Michael of creating a more joyful world. For folks who might be tuning in visually I'm wearing a yellow shirt yellow is my is my color just because it's the the color of lights, the color of expansion, the color possibility, and I'm some days I'm of sheer optimist. Some days, I'm a nihilistic optimist, happy to dive into what that means as well. But essentially, I really believe in the goodness of people, both as individuals and the collective power to be good and do good. And I think that we each of us, and I do I really say this with so much conviction and not like the try, like everyone's good, but just a true conviction. that people are so good. And we have the capacity to do amazing things and to affect others in positive ways. That does not mean that we're always going to be perfect. That does not mean that we're never going to hurt people's feelings, or or, you know, potentially even do unsavory things. But what if we could live in a world in which we want to see? Alright, I know that there's a, there's a famous quote in there. But I just I, I love the feeling of being able to connect people being able to make them feel like they matter. That's what it is, at the end of the day, I want people to feel like they matter. **Michael Hingson ** 35:38 And that helps you achieve. **Katya Davydova ** 35:40 Yeah, it gives me a deep sense of meaning a deep sense of purpose. Purpose. Yeah. Well, **Michael Hingson ** 35:50 and personally, from my perspective, I love what you what you're saying makes perfect sense. You know, I don't think that people are born bad. I think it's a learned behavior that oftentimes too many people ascribe to and it's something that really we we need to deal with and recognize that there's a lot more power in being good in loving than anything else. Yeah. **Katya Davydova ** 36:13 Yeah. I mean, Michael, let me let me ask you this question. I'm sure you've been asked to ask him before. But I'm curious what your response is, in this moment. What drives you to do the things that you do to spread your message to spread awareness to do you know, hundreds of speaking engagements a year? What motivates you? **Michael Hingson ** 36:30 Well, I think probably somewhat the same thing that you do, I want to inspire I want to educate people, I want people to learn more about blindness, and that, that our view of disability is totally wrong. disability does not mean a lack of ability, and that every person on this planet has a disability of one sort or another. We could delve into that. But the reality is, I think that anytime that we can contribute to making people have a better outlook is an important and a good thing to do. Yeah. **Katya Davydova ** 37:03 Is that something that you felt yourself cultivating as a child or something that you grew into, **Michael Hingson ** 37:09 I always wanted to be a teacher. And my first job out of college took me in a different direction, sort of. But I ultimately realized that being a teacher doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be hired into plant to teach in the classroom or whatever. And then, in fact, most of the jobs that I have had, including what I do today, is all about teaching. And that, that it's important to teach the right and important things. And that in reality, I can't teach anyone anything they have to teach themselves. All I can do is show the way. **Katya Davydova ** 37:49 Yes, yes. I love that. And what's what is it that keeps you going? Right, because sometimes being a teacher is difficult to continually have to exert some or a lot of ourselves to do so. What keeps you going? **Michael Hingson ** 38:04 Well, I That's a fair question. And I'm gonna turn it around in a second and ask you the same thing, but, but for me, look, I believe that that people are doing it. I love life, I love the fact that life is an adventure that we all should share him. I think that there is an absolute relevant world of morals and ethics and so on. And so it's always frustrating when I see people totally ignoring morals, totally ignoring ethics, doing some of the things that we're seeing people do in our in our world today. But I ultimately have seen too many examples of life is really composed mostly of good people. And we can be better for it. And we need to really emphasize the good and the love part. I'm with with Henry Drummond love is the most important thing in the world. And it is something that will transcend everything that we deal with. And if we don't do it, it will destroy anyone who really decides not to truly be a loving individual. So it keeps me going knowing that some of those things are true. Some of those things work. And I want to continue to help motivate people to to do better and be better than they are. And maybe it's like what you were thinking of the whole Gandhi quote of Be the change you want to see in the morning. Exactly. Yes. How about you? **Katya Davydova ** 39:33 Yeah, I think about this question as it is interlaced with the topic of burnout, where in today's as well. Yeah, and I would say in today's society that folks are more prone to an experience more burnout more than ever. The reason that I contrast that is because at the end of the day, while systems, organizational systems worldwide system, global citizens are like me not designed for necessarily human flourishing, because if you look at the eight hour workday, right, that is an archaic practice from the 50s. From the line of Dr. Work that some people are definitely not working eight hours, some people are working way more, but the human brain and body are not designed to sit in a chair for eight hours a day and look at a screen. Right? That is my soapbox. Wow, I love taking us down this. And I say this because it can get very exhausting to show up over and over and over again. But I think that what it boils down to is that, to your point about making a brighter world, if we have a choice to show up as loving, as kind as caring, why wouldn't we? Right? It almost seems like the me at least, I mean, I might be biased, but it almost feels like the natural choice. But I also think that this is not something that many of us consciously step into, like I had to get there. I had this really powerful lesson from my prior relationship, where my former partner and I, you know, we were living together had a great relationship. But he's, again, still one of my best friends different partner than the other one I mentioned. And he told me, he's like Katya, like, you nag me a lot, right? You like, tell me like, what what you wish I did more of what? What I'm not doing right. Like, you don't tell me as much the things that I am doing, right? It's like, Oh, my God, you're so right. Like, I wasn't giving him that positive reinforcement that we and research affirms is crucial, or strong relationships. Because according to adult learning theory, adults learn best by positive reinforcement by doubling down on things that they do well. And ever since he said that, to me, I like really took that to heart, because I asked him for feedback, after we broke up was like, Hey, give me some feedback on how I can be a better partner. And it was really, really valuable. And that's one of the lessons that I carry forth with me. If there's a way that I can positively amplify someone else's experience, someone else's work someone else's, you know, anything that they do, why wouldn't I? Yeah, it makes it better for everybody involved. And it feels so good for both **Michael Hingson ** 42:04 parties. And, and you're not doing it from the standpoint of arrogance. You're doing it from the standpoint of love, and because you want to really be a helpful part of humanity. **Katya Davydova ** 42:16 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's sometimes like, yeah, it can take effort, especially when we've had a day. It can be very easy to say like, well, the wild is dark, and I'm tired, right? So I'm gonna go like wallow. And of course, like, everyone does, I do that, too. But when we have the choice to show up as our best selves, **Michael Hingson ** 42:33 I wouldn't wait. Yeah. So tell me, what do you think having an unstoppable mindset means? **Katya Davydova ** 42:43 I love this question. You know, I was reflecting a lot about this in preparation for our conversation today, Michael. I think there's the tangible resilience, skills, the things that we can learn, right, all the coping mechanisms, being aware of how stress shows up in our brains and bodies, you know, employing techniques like deep breathing, or the 200 technique, or, you know, inviting cognitive offload. All of those terms, by the way, are terms that I teach for my day job, which I just love. But essentially, there's the hard skills, right, like, if you experienced this type of stressor, here's how you can cope. That's one way to be unstoppable, so that you have the systems, the mechanistic systems in place to get you through our times. But I think there's also the flip side of being unstoppable is having the belief that you are able to overcome any challenge that comes in your way. And if not overcome to your ideal, desired level, that there's lessons that you can take from it. So if you overcome it, amazing, great, you've made it through made it past, if it didn't go quite as planned that there's takeaways to help guide you on the next iteration, the next chapter. And I think that that sort of intangible that second flavor is the more intangible that limitless belief that instead of a limiting belief, that you are capable, that you are able and that in the end, things will turn out however they turn out. **Michael Hingson ** 44:17 So I'm sure that you've had in your life and you can point to times that you've had to face adversity, what's gotten you through it, how do you do them? **Katya Davydova ** 44:27 Yeah, I was actually just discussing coping styles, like there's different types of coping styles of stress. And my typical coping style is just robot mode. I'll share with you a story that about almost a decade ago, actually now, I was in a near fatal head on collision. And it was a really hard time everybody walked out it was it was all good. Well, all good. I put that in quotes, air quotes. I expected after that, that I would just go back to life and like, you know, maybe take some time to recover maybe like rest and I did not write I just continued pumping out at 100% 150% Just the way I had been before before the accident. And I tell the story, because when I tell my participants about the story, I'm like, you know, I should have learned to take better care of myself, I should have learned to slow down and actually rest. And I did it. But what got me through is that like, okay, like, this is going to be a hard season, I'm going to just go robot do the things that I need to do to stay afloat. But what I've been learning recently in the last couple of years is to actually listen to my body. If I'm tired, maybe that's an indication that I should take a break. Right? What did curiosity what did that though? Just knowing to answer your question more directly, Michael, to get through hard times, knowing that there is going to be a different time, a time that I feel 1% Less bad **Michael Hingson ** 45:51 tomorrow. So let's go back to let's go back to going robot. does that also mean you're just doing things, if you will, by rote or being a robot, that it gives you your brain time to think and to process? And then of course, you have to listen to what comes out or learn to listen to what comes out. But does that then by giving your brain a chance to process? If you think that is true, then that's it is it is truly a healing mechanism that that allows you to come out of it stronger and better for what you do. **Katya Davydova ** 46:30 Yeah, yeah, I really think it's a way of compartmentalization, where I know that there's things that quote unquote, have to get done, right in order for me to carry on the way that I've been living. But I also think it can be maladaptive because I sometimes may not take enough time to grieve, right or to process, I journal a lot. So that that is my sort of grieving mechanism. And lately, again, as I said, I went through a lot of heavy things this past year, actually allowing myself the time to just like, go on a mountaintop and cry, you know, as a sort of movie like as it sounds, it's really, really cathartic and healing to say, okay, Kati, like these are the things that are bubbling up, let them out, as opposed to squashing them down and dealing with them never so that they're unresolved. **Michael Hingson ** 47:16 Yeah, I think that's part of the the issue is that if you just push them down, and you don't pay attention to them, when you don't deal with issues that come up, then you're going to come up and get you in the end anyway. **Katya Davydova ** 47:28 And intensify potentially and intensify. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think having the sense of community around as well. I've I'm curious, Michael, how this shows up for you. But I haven't been really great at asking for help, especially in my younger years, because I'm like, I can do it on my own. You know, I grew up very independent talking to adults, as I mentioned. And so I was like, I can do everything myself, right. But now I'm like, leaning on my community. I'm like, Hey, friends, like I'm feeling really bad, like helped, you know, and are like, what would you do in this situation, and everyone has shown up and just such the most kind, loving way. And just remembering that there's people who want to be in your corner. **Michael Hingson ** 48:05 And people who care, people who care. I, I have learned, especially and talk about it since September 11, that when I think I've learned it a long before then especially working with guide dogs, it's all about teamwork and team development. But I think that there is a lot to always be said for having a team. And we may or may not necessarily recognize it. And sometimes we we may even just want to push the team away. But when we truly interact with the team, interact with the people around us and let them into our lives. It is such a wonderful, very powerful thing to do. **Katya Davydova ** 48:51 Is there a moment like that that stands out for you and your life? **Michael Hingson ** 48:54 Well, immediately what I'm thinking of is that that my wife of 40 years passed away last November. And so we we had been married literally 40 years. So suddenly, I was alone, in a sense, because now she wasn't here. I did have a few months to sort of prepare for it because we knew what was happening. This her body started slowing down. She's been in a wheelchair, her wife and her buddy just started slowing down and that happened for her. But suddenly, no matter what you think it was suddenly there and now she's no longer here. Although I'd love to tell people she's watching somewhere and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it. But But still, it's different now. And one of the things that we did was I decided to have a meeting, kind of a celebration of life, which we did in January the week the shoe We did a service for her in the middle of January where we spread her ashes. And then the next week, we did a celebration of life online. And people came from around the world literally, to participate in that for her. And I realized how much not only she but I had in such a blessing with so many people who wanted to continue to be part of our lives. And, and then it worked out really well. So I, I love to stay in touch with people, but I also now value even more times of flight. So I can I can go through a good period of time and not turn the TV on not turn the radio on or anything and just have a quiet or I'll just read a book. And that's okay. Yeah, yeah. **Katya Davydova ** 50:55 I really appreciate your sharing your story, Michael, that's, that's, **Michael Hingson ** 51:00 I think it is important that we all need to take time to collect our own thoughts, and that we need to value other people. But at the same time, we also need to recognize that we have to value ourselves and in our lives. And ultimately, again, we're our best teachers, and we have to teach ourselves. **Katya Davydova ** 51:22 Yes, and teach ourselves not once, not twice, but iteratively, right, like set up potentially even systems or habits to remind ourselves, to spend time with ourselves to check in to journal to write to do whatever it is that makes us feel centered. **Michael Hingson ** 51:34 I'm a firm believer that people should take some time every day to just think and as I was I talked about introspection. That is something that we we can do when people say I don't have the time to do that too much do yes, you do. Always have to. **Katya Davydova ** 51:54 I also used to be one of those people who's like, I don't have time I'm literally doing like I'm working 14 hour days. I'm moving from one thing to the next. And what I share people my schedule when I like, let them see my calendar. They're like, Kati, this is insane. Like, I know, it's insane. That's why I don't have time. But there is always time and micromoments right. Lately, I've been finding meditative moments on like, I bike to the gym, or I walk around the neighborhood or like, deliberately, if I can't sit still, which it's it is very difficult for me to still sit still. Then I'll find that stillness as I'm physically moving. Right? And like the mind just comes down. I'm a rock climber. So whenever like I'm on the wall, holding on for dear life. That is such a perfect opportunity to think about like, nothing else matters. Besides this moment. That is it. Right you're **Michael Hingson ** 52:37 holding on? And the reality is we always do have time, it's just that we make the choice not to. And that's the problem that each of us has to grow out. Mm **Katya Davydova ** 52:47 hmm. I wouldn't even view it as a problem, right? Because problem or a challenge? Challenge, somewhat, but it makes it feel like like, you are at fault for **Michael Hingson ** 52:59 not Yeah, no, no, I hear you. **Katya Davydova ** 53:02 Yeah, I just I and this is still an unresolved thing for myself, too. And I share this right, even though I coach people on this, it's, it's still something that is such a constant work in progress. And that's why like, I really like thinking about the micro habits, right? How can we design systems in a way that we don't have to, we don't have to think about implementing this every day, we've already designed the backbone of the system that can carry us **Michael Hingson ** 53:26 through? How do we get people to do that? **Katya Davydova ** 53:30 Well, we get to get them to think about their motivations. So starting with a why, like, what is it that ultimately matters to them? And it's kind of like asking a ladder of lies, right? And why does that matter to you? And why does that matter to you? And what's at the true core, or like, what is the core of your essence or your being, and then connecting behaviors back onto that. So mapping it to sort of like this giant tree trunk of why we're all the branches, or the possible behaviors and the possible habits that folks might build. So for example, when my clients wants to build a little bit more structure in their morning schedule, and, you know, schedules are great structure is great, but why does that matter? Right? What will that ultimately give to that person? And so we were able to unpack that a little bit deeply in a way that the outcome was a sustainable, you know, chunk of time every day to connect back with themselves, because that was something that they were truly wanting and desiring **Michael Hingson ** 54:25 in 30 years, how would you like people to remember you in your life, not that you've passed away or anything, but in 30 years, there's a lot more time for people to develop memories about you. Definitely, **Katya Davydova ** 54:35 definitely. I love that you asked that question I got I'm gonna marinate on it. But the answer that comes to mind is I would like to be remembered as a source of light, love, joy and liberty for others, and that's kind of vague and nebulous, but I leave it vague and nebulous to be able to land a To the interpretation of each person, right, so if I can be that person that is able to make someone feel at least 10% better, if I'm that person who can help them craft systems or I can help them craft an environment where they do feel their most powerful, empowered, joyful selves, then I will have lived a great life. **Michael Hingson ** 55:20 And we would have done something that's really great. Yes, yes. What advice do you have for for people who are listening to this? **Katya Davydova ** 55:31 In general, I love I love how to end the big the big hitters show like I love your style. **Michael Hingson ** 55:41 It's a sir questions that come to mind. It's not that they were planned. To be honest, it's that they're devotee. Right? Scott talking. But anyway, **Katya Davydova ** 55:50 I think it's to continually remind ourselves that we have a choice and how we see the world. And to choose to see it in a way that ultimately is serves us and serves other people best. So my specific personalized version of it is to see the joy in the everyday to find little little treasures, right little moments of joy and wonder in the everyday, that's my own ethos, yours might be that, you know, you leave the world feeling you leave each day, helping one person feel inspired. Right? Whatever the flavor of it is, the advice that I would impart upon folks, if I could have like a billboard that would shine across the entire universe. Or maybe let's just keep it to Earth, planet Earth, the universe, in this one is to remember that we have the choice to show up and to try to show up as fully ourselves, and it's probably our best authentic versions of ourselves. Because that's all we have. **Michael Hingson ** 56:47 And I liked the fact that you talk about it as a choice, because it is a choice. And we can choose to do that or not. I think that's the important part about whatever we do, we we have the choice as to how we want to live, we may not always be able to control some of the things that happen to us, we always have the choice as to how we deal with it. And that's what's really important. Yeah. **Katya Davydova ** 57:12 And also making the space that if we don't feel like or cannot show up as our best selves that day, to not like get overly hard on ourselves about it, right? Because of course, sometimes we're gonna have off days off weeks off seasons, and just keep coming back to it with love. As long as we get that word, **Michael Hingson ** 57:27 give it to ourselves, and don't get hard on others either. **Katya Davydova ** 57:30 Yes, yes, exactly. Don't let that spread. Well, **Michael Hingson ** 57:34 this has been fun. I know, you've got to go off to another meeting, because you're just so popular. So I do want to thank you again for being here. And I hope that all of you enjoyed this. Please let us know what you think I would appreciate it. If you would reach out to me, you can email me at Michaelhi at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. Love Of course, as I always say, but I do mean it. We really would appreciate five star ratings from you, wherever you're listening to this, but how do you how can people reach out to you and maybe take advantage of some of the things that you do and so on? **Katya Davydova ** 58:12 Yeah, thank you for asking that. And absolutely plus, plus a million to what you just shared about reaching out to Michael. But if you want to get in touch and honestly do truly mean this to please please reach out. It's just Katya at KatyaDavydova.com If you're an Instagram, it's at joy in plain sight, all one word. And if you want to find me on LinkedIn, it's Kaya Davydova. If you're someone who is interested in coaching and want to explore options for building more sustainable habits for life flourishing, I'm in your corner. I've got your back. Let's have a conversation. Again. Katya @KatyaDavydova.com. It'd be amazing to hear from you. Thank you might be on mute Michael **Michael Hingson ** 58:47 spell spell. Katya Davydova For us? **Katya Davydova ** 58:49 Sure. Katya is K a t y a. And Davydova is D a v y d o v a Davydova. **Michael Hingson ** 58:59 And you wrote a book? **Katya Davydova ** 59:00 I did. I did. Called joy in plain sight. And how can people get that? You're welcome to either find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, I believe target all your online retailers. If you want to personalize signed copy, I have a couple of those still left available. So I'm happy to mail you one. Feel free to just email me Katy@KatyaDavydova.com **Michael Hingson ** 59:22 Well, Katya, I want to thank you once again for being here and for doing this. It's been a joy, and it's been a pleasure and we need to do it again. Yes, **Katya Davydova ** 59:31 Michael, thank you so much for cultivating the space I just feel radiantly connected and extremely grateful for having this opportunity to chat with. **Michael Hingson ** 59:43 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our

Haley Cooper grew up in Orange County California. She clearly grew up loving life. After attending college she was deciding what to do with her life when an opportunity appeared to travel to Malawi, Africa as part of a Christian mission. Eight months after returning to California from this first mission she was approached and asked to return to Malawi to help start and grow a manufacturing program to create food to help improve the nutrition of people in villages who, up to that time, tended to be quite malnourished. The plant Haley started manufactured, ready, peanut butter. Actually, there was a bit more to the product, but peanut butter was the main ingredient. Haley will tell us the whole story and show us how what she did made an incredible difference to so many. After returning to the United States after two years Haley embarked on a career as a fundraising professional for various nonprofit companies. Along the way she married and now is the mom of three children. Her oldest son who is four years old is adopted. The adoption story for Haley is inspiring and worth hearing. Two years ago Haley began her own philanthropic fundraising consulting company, The Savvy Fundraiser. While we discuss the company and fundraising in general you get to hear a conversation about sales, selling and fundraising. Our discussion about the philosophy of these topics is fun and quite relevant. I leave it to you to listen and decide for yourself if Haley and I are on the right track. As always, I would love to hear your thoughts about our episode. Please feel free to email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com. And, of course, when you listen to this episode, please give us a 5* rating. Thanks. About the Guest: Haley is a passionate and accomplished professional with a diverse skill set in the nonprofit sector. As a Certified Fund Raising Executive (CFRE), Certified Stress Management Coach, and Certified EmC train the trainer, she brings a wealth of expertise to her work. Haley's journey began in 2012 when she founded PB+J in Malawi, Africa, establishing her commitment to making a positive impact for children and youth. Since then, she has honed her abilities while working with various small and large nonprofit teams, focusing on human services, homelessness, and youth sectors. Haley is the Founder and CEO of The Savvy Fundraiser and her specialties include the EmC process, nonprofit leadership, board development, and fundraising. Ways to connect with Haley: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haley-cooper-cfre/ Website: https://thesavvyfundraiser.com/ Subscribe: https://thesavvyfundraiser.ck.page/subscribe About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes **Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. **Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi there and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today we're going to have some fun we've got a really interesting person to chat with Haley Cooper, unless you talk to her mom and sometimes her mom pronounces it Haley Cooper but and my computer by the way with Jaw's pronounces at Halle, but I'm smart enough to know that it's really Haley. But Haley Halle tomato tomahto I couldn't resist this. Well anyway, welcome to unstoppable mindset, Haley, and we're really glad that you're here with us. **Haley Cooper ** 01:56 Well, thank you so much, Michael. It's so good to be here. And I'm so glad that we found a time that has worked for us. And I'm just delighted and honored to be able to chat with you. **Michael Hingson ** 02:06 And on top of everything else, sports fans. Haley lives in Lake Forest, California, which is only what would you say about oh, from Victorville? Probably about 60 miles. No more than **Haley Cooper ** 02:19 Yeah, maybe. Maybe I could throw you a football? Yeah, yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 02:24 Well are probably easier for me to throw something from here because we're up higher. **Haley Cooper ** 02:29 Oh, there you go. Yeah, you'd **Michael Hingson ** 02:30 have to throw away up hill. But Haley lives fairly close to where I attended college at University of California at Irvine. And then we live my wife and I in Mission Viejo for a while. So anyway, we're really glad you're here with us. And I want to thank you for for joining us. So why don't we start? The fun way to start? Tell us about kind of the early Halley growing up and all that sort of stuff? **Haley Cooper ** 02:55 Yeah, that's a good question. And I've been reflecting on that. And you know, as I've been listening to your podcasts episodes, I'm like, What is my story? Who who is Haley, who is family **Michael Hingson ** 03:05 anyway? Who has real power that really Haley Halle, stand up? **Haley Cooper ** 03:12 There you go. But you know, obviously, I grew up in Orange County, and I grew up and over really good family that, you know, my family was deeply committed to philanthropy and giving back to the community. It's been a part and ingrained in my life from as early as I can remember. You know, my grandparents would always invite us to ballet shows. They were a part of an organization called the St. Joseph ballet that is now the wooden floor at you know, reflecting back I'm like, now I'm a nonprofit leader, which we'll get to like, I didn't understand philanthropy, I just understood that it was a way of life. I also grew up in the Christian church. And so service is giving to others, and helping others it's just ingrained in in me. And, you know, aside from service with my family, I loved playing sports. I grew up running cross country and track played soccer was a very active child's love to play. I'm one of five children. And with my two parents, and I just, you know, remember as a child, volunteering, and aside from playing sports, volunteering with my family, and, you know, from a young age, I was exposed to the importance of that and making a positive impact on the world. **Michael Hingson ** 04:30 So where did you grow up? What Round Lake Forest or where I grew up in Laguna Niguel? Ah, so still right in the area? **Haley Cooper ** 04:39 Yeah. And I went to from preschool to 12th grade I went to the same school St. Margaret's in San Juan Capistrano. And it's funny because one of my one of my very best dear friends is my friend from preschool. So we've been friends for I mean, I won't date myself but 36 years. You That's okay. **Michael Hingson ** 05:03 Nothing wrong. Don't be ashamed. I mean, I was born in 1950. You can do the math. Yes. So so I'm not I'm not ashamed by it. It's okay. Well, that's that's pretty cool. I did student teaching when I took teacher training at UC Irvine from the teacher's college, their university high in Irvine. So that was kind of fun. Yeah, **Haley Cooper ** 05:28 we played them in soccer. Who won? We did. Okay. No, actually, I think it was pretty fair, pretty. I remember them being pretty competitive. But I, I would like to remember that we, we kicked their butts. **Michael Hingson ** 05:43 Now we need to get somebody on from University High from from back in those days. Yeah. And and see what we can do. So we need to get somebody from somewhere in the 1990s. And so on to come on and see if we can get a real story. So **Haley Cooper ** 06:03 that's two sides of the story. Right? Yeah. But **Michael Hingson ** 06:06 unless they say, Yeah, they really kicked our butts. **Haley Cooper ** 06:12 Well, I hope I hope they remember it the way I **Michael Hingson ** 06:15 so what did you major in in college? **Haley Cooper ** 06:17 Yeah, so I went to St. Mary's College of California in Moraga, California at the East Bay. And I studied Kinesiology, Health and Human Performance. That's what I graduated with my bachelor's degree in. And I love science, all things science, I love learning how the body works, and being able to help others implement that. Well. I don't necessarily do that now. **Michael Hingson ** 06:44 So what's the big? So what's the big bang theory, one of your favorite TV shows? **Haley Cooper ** 06:48 I guess I do like that show. Just checking the genus of that show. But yeah, I really, you know, like I said, I was always involved in sports, and it was a part of my lifestyle growing up. And, you know, somehow, my dad has five kids was able to make it to every single person's that soccer game or sports event, sometimes you're playing at the same time on the same field, but he was able to make it to all so being able to leverage that in college, and it was something that I was really excited about. And I really enjoyed, you know, it was one of the only colleges at the time that offer that major, specifically, there are different tracks that you could take, but I've chose Health and Human Performance and really enjoyed it. **Michael Hingson ** 07:34 How did you say health and human performance? **Haley Cooper ** 07:36 How helping human performance? **Michael Hingson ** 07:39 Okay, yeah. Okay, that's that was just making sure. That's that, though, is pretty interesting. Why did you choose that? **Haley Cooper ** 07:48 So like I said, you know, sports was heavily involved in my upbringing, my dad had also graduated with a degree in exercise physiology. And so it was just something that, you know, I was passionate about, and found interest in and was able to excel in. And so I really, yeah, I just like the aspect of learning how the body works, and being able to help that other people implement healthy lifestyles. **Michael Hingson ** 08:19 Cool. Well, and why did you? Well, what, what drove you to doing that? Like, was it just your upbringing that you just felt that that was kind of a way to give back a little bit, do you think? **Haley Cooper ** 08:34 I think so. So I actually entered college as a communications major, because that's what I thought I wanted to do. But looking back, I'm glad I did not go down that road, because that is just, it's, it was just not for me. And I found, you know, I found this and I think it was because of my upbringing, that really was instrumental in helping me choose, choose this major, and get interested in all and specifically, you know, I really liked physiology and Exercise Physiology and what we would do, as our final project, as a senior was developing, like, we had all the you could do the waterway, I forget what it's called, but like weigh yourself underwater, and that's the most accurate way to weigh yourself. And then we did different activities. And we were able to prescribe exercise and nutrition plans based on the measurements that we took. **Michael Hingson ** 09:29 So how do you weigh or how do you weigh yourself underwater? **Haley Cooper ** 09:33 You know, college was a long time ago, I have to remember Ah, there you go. But you sit on a chair and you go underwater, and I think it takes out everything. I wish I remembered what I now I'm gonna have to Google it. But yeah, I think it's the most accurate way because it takes out all the other like, fluid and build up that you can get on other scales. **Michael Hingson ** 09:57 Interesting. I'm gonna have to google that and learn about that. myself, that would be kind of fun to do. But it makes sense. As you say, it takes up a lot of other things. So **Haley Cooper ** 10:07 says it's the most accurate way to measure body fat. You're submerged in water while you sit on a scale and then you calculate your body fat percentage. **Michael Hingson ** 10:17 Got it? Okay. Yeah. Interesting. I'm gonna have to go see where I can do that. Yeah, **Haley Cooper ** 10:26 maybe at your local gym? Possibly. So **Michael Hingson ** 10:29 you graduated from college? And then what did you go off and do? **Haley Cooper ** 10:36 So I was sitting in my parents church in Aliso Viejo, California, right? When I graduated college, and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do and on stage. You know, someone was like, Hey, we're doing a missions trip to Malawi, Africa. Does anyone want to go? All we ask of you is to sponsor children through World Vision. And then, you know, obviously raised the money. I think it was about $2,500 to go on the trip. And that included the flight, the stay the food, everything. And like I said, my family was philanthropically. Locally, we had never really traveled outside of the country. I had been to England once when my older sister studied abroad there. But again, it was very local. And I was like, Hey, mom, and dad, guess where I'm going this summer? I was like, I'm going to Malawi, and they're like, Haley, what are you like, what's like, where did you get that idea from? And, you know, when I graduated from college, he more inclined to give me gifts or money was part of my family tradition. But I asked him to give me money to go towards this trip. And so in August of 2012, by August 2011, sorry, that's when I graduated college, I went to my first trip to Malawi, Africa. And honestly, before I went, I had to Google where the country was because it's a little sliver of Africa. And this little country, next to Tanzania and Mozambique, and Zambia. And I went there and my eyes were just opened, you know, someone who grew up in Orange County, just open up to a different way of living a different lifestyle. And it really changed. It changed my life. And I came back and you think after two weeks, or you know, you go on a retreat, you go on a missions trip, you get back into the daily life, and you kind of forget that invigorating feeling, and that joy that you experience, obviously, there was a lot of hardship. But on that trip, we did a lot of discipleship, we hosted games for kids. We went and did gospel outreach in the communities met with chiefs. And got to know got to know the community. And after that, I was I came back and I was living at my parents house working at a local coffee shop. It was right kind of in the middle of the recession. So finding jobs is hard. And I was applying to colleges to become a registered dietician. And I kept getting denial after denial, and it just was not working out. That's the path that I thought I wanted to go down. And I remember one night that I just broke down. And like I said, I'm a Christian. So I said, God, like give me an answer. I will submit to you like, show me something that you want me to do, because this is not working out. And what I want isn't working. And that literally that next day, the guy who led the missions trip called my dad, because they were good friends at the time. It was like, Hey, does Haley want to go make peanut butter and Malawi for a year? And I went to go, my dad was like, hey, like, do you want to do this? So I met with a guy that is he was a former lawyer, and I met in his office and he presented me the idea. And I was like, Yes, I will send me I will go. And this is about eight months after my initial trip. And he was like Haley literally go home and pray on it. Like you gotta think about this overnight. And I was like, nope, what are we doing? How are we doing this? And this really evolved out of this idea that, you know, with the original missions trip that we went on, they were trying to end malaria deaths for all children under five. But they found that these children were still passing away because they didn't have the nutrition table to fight disease. And the original founder had heard about this company on 60 minutes with Anderson Cooper about ready to use therapeutic food that was making tremendous difference in children experiencing malnutrition. So I got out my mom's KitchenAid mixers in her kitchen. And luckily, this company who had developed this product gave us the formula obviously with the agreement that if we ever sold it, they would get a royalty off of it. But we've I started making peanut butter in my parents kitchen, and in August of 2012. I moved to Malawi, for For about two years and then went back and forth for for two years leaning missions trips and checking on the mission. And then I literally started, I always like to say this is like a fun fact is I literally started a peanut butter factory from scratch, and learned how to make it UNICEF approved. So my last trip was to Copenhagen to a UNICEF conference that was on this product, to literally it's kind of like, they're kind of like the FDA, if you will, like of regulation for this product. And there's very specific tests you have to do. We had to send our product to London, to get it tested before we could give it out to people and get the test results back. And because some things in the peanut butter, because there is a milk powder in it, there could be bacteria, and also the way that people prepare the nuts. Could be there can be aflatoxin, if they get wet. And people generally put rocks in it. Or if they sell bags, they put they get them wet so that they way more way more. Yeah, yeah, so we actually started a co op of peanut farmers that would then sell it to a business and they would make the good price. And then they would blend in roast them for us. And then we had a whole factory that we developed that was next to a hospital. Meanwhile, while I'm building this, I'm also living in an apartment with three other Germans, German ladies, and we didn't have water, we now have water in our apartment. So we had someone who would come and clean our house daily, she also made the most amazing bread. And she would go to the well and get us water each day. And we would have to heat it up and heat it up in the water heater, and then you take a bath out of the bucket. And so that's how that's how I lived. And then we were finally able to get water. Yeah, that's a really amazing and hard experience. I think I learned a lot about, you know, I was 24 at the time, so a lot about myself and a lot about other people's cultures and how to really, really work with a diverse group of people. **Michael Hingson ** 17:17 How, how well, was the whole mission effort, especially at the beginning, how well was it accepted? Was there a lot of skepticism as you came in and wanted to start this whole manufacturing process? And all that? Or did people feel that it made perfect sense or what? Yeah, **Haley Cooper ** 17:37 that's a good question. So we had to get approval by a few people. So when was the so there's a hierarchical system in the villages. And I remember we had to go to the chief have to there's chiefs that run each village. And then there's like the chief of the chief, and we went to her house, and we had to bring her like six chickens and a goat or something. And we waited in her house. And we had to ask her for permission to start this, we weren't able to start it unless we had permission from her. And luckily, she granted, we we made the case that we were going to bring it out into villages, because a lot of people would travel at least 20 miles to go to the hospital. And we found that, you know, they're waiting till the last minute. And so we wanted to go out into the health care centers and deliver this product to the to the healthcare screening so that people didn't have to wait till the last minute, because if they're traveling, they're missing a day of getting water cooking for their family. And so we were able to bring it out and get their approval, and then we obviously had to get them allow government approval. And I think what else really helped was employing Malawian people to run the factory. So we wanted to get buy in from the local people and be able to empower them to have jobs. **Michael Hingson ** 19:06 So were you able to see a difference that you made in the time that you were there because you started providing the peanut butter and is it you've referred to it as peanut butter, but you've also said it's a food I guess there's a lot of other stuff in it isn't just peanut butter. **Haley Cooper ** 19:26 Yeah, so in the product, there's peanut butter. It literally tastes like the inside of a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. Because there is sugar, there's sugar in it milk, a protein powder. And I think that was all that was it. Okay. So it is very nutritious each it's like in a packet and each packet has 500 calories in it. So it was an enclosed package. So we had like this, we would put the peanut butter in it and then put it in the package and seal it and we did on an hour average of two weeks, like kids were making leaps and bounds, they were gaining weight, they were healthy. I mean, health, healthy as a relative term, getting healthier from things, we also use it to help. Mothers with, or individuals with HIV tend to be more mothers that are identified people with tuberculosis so that they could fight the disease. And also for that people who are taking HIV medicine, they need that protein to be able to digest the medicine. And so we are able, we're seeing that, you know, it really was working. And, you know, we also partnered with another organization that would provide supplemental food, called Luke Cooney, Paula, to help supplement the rest of the family, because we did find that, you know, if a kid is getting it, sometimes the family you know, everyone shares everything. And so we had to be able to supplement it so the kid can actually get the beneficial nutrients from that product. **Michael Hingson ** 21:03 Did they eat it straight? Or did they put it on bread? Or how was it generally taken in? **Haley Cooper ** 21:10 Both so gonna just cut out cut open the Sasha and eat it? Or they would mix it into their porridge? Or they call it in Sema, which is pretty much it's kind of like a mashed potato bow bun kind of consistency. It's made of corn powder. And that's what they would mix it with me. Okay. **Michael Hingson ** 21:33 But you certainly gained acceptance for, for providing this and people realize that it was doing good for them. **Haley Cooper ** 21:42 Yes, yes, I would, I would agree with that statement. **Michael Hingson ** 21:45 So you did this for a couple of years. And then why? Well, it doesn't continue today. Why did you leave? Or did you feel that it had grown that to the point where it could could go on without you or what? So **Haley Cooper ** 22:03 it still does exist today? I have, like I said, I'm been involved since 2016. And, you know, I moved back after two years, and I got involved with our local AFP Association of Fundraising Professionals chapter and really learned about fundraising and found that I really enjoyed it. And it just came to a time where I think like you said, like it had grown to a point where I felt comfortable leaving and letting other people there was a Malawian Country Director kind of run. And then there's another founder that from the US that kind of oversees it. Not the original founder, but one of the original founders does. And so, you know, I had joined this AFP Association really got involved in the local community. And really, that's really what started my fundraising journey over the last 1011 years, is getting involved in local community, mostly organizations serving people experiencing homelessness, and youth experiencing homelessness and hunger. **Michael Hingson ** 23:10 So you came back? And what what did you do first, when you came back? Or how did you evolve to what you're doing now? What did you start with? And what do you do? **Haley Cooper ** 23:22 So it was funny, because, as you know, I was a founder and executive director right at 2425 20 sites. And I had to start from the bottom again, I had to go back to being an entry level development person, which was actually really beneficial, because it helped me learn a lot about the ins and outs and intricacies of fundraising. So I was working for a local organization that was helping kids experiencing homelessness from kindergarten to 12th grade. And then I think they expanded to college because they found that the need was still great here locally. And since then, you know, I've just gained really valuable experiencing by working in these fundraising roles, like starting from the bottom. My last role was as Director of Development. I've worked at both large and small nonprofits. So I have seen it all. And I've seen that I really, you know, when I was in person really enjoyed the grassroots organizations that, you know, a lot of the ones that I had been hired at, had been around for 30 years, but never prioritized fundraising. They had been so focused on programs. And then they came to a point where they're like, well, we want to go our programs, but we need fundraising. And fundraising is always a board term that people scare away from and they're like, we don't we don't like fundraising. We, we don't want to I just did a board training last week and they were like, We don't know anyone. We don't want to fundraise and I was like you're my favorite person. I'm gonna get that mindset change. Yeah, and this is serious just working on all these levels. All of these different organizations just helped me understand like the challenges and opportunities and emotional whirlwind that it can be working in the nonprofit sector. **Michael Hingson ** 25:12 So let's talk about the whole idea of fundraising a little bit. I've been in professional sales, basically, all of my adult life. And I still think as a speaker, I'm in sales. Now I, as I love to tell people selling philosophy and life as opposed to computers, but still, the sales processes there. I've met a lot of fundraisers and I worked at Guide Dogs for the Blind, which is a pretty large charity up in Northern California and one of the largest in California, and certainly the largest guide dog school in the country. And in dealing with all of the development folks up there and meeting a lot of people at the association, fundraising professionals in San Francisco, they love to say fundraising isn't sales, it's totally different. And it's not the same. And you can't look at it the same. What do you think **Haley Cooper ** 26:05 about that? So I think there's aspects of fundraising that is salesy, and I think salespeople can come into fundraising roles and vice versa. I think the thing that is different is sales is based on a transaction. So it's based on getting a service in return and paying a price. I think in fundraising what, what it should be, obviously, some people still treat it as a transaction, exchanging informational, it should be helping people realize their greatest potential through your mission. And I had someone on my podcast last week, talking about like, helping people realize their generosity, helping people become their most generous selves, their most their highest potential, because we all know the benefits of generosity, we all know the benefits of giving. And my role is to help understand as a fundraiser, what that looks like for you. And then once you give, once you give, reporting back to you how that's making a difference. So I think that's that's the difference. It's not just me asking you for money. It's me, trying to figure out what your passions and interests are, how that aligns with our mission, and then helping you fulfill those passions and interests. By investing in the area that you're you're interested in. See, **Michael Hingson ** 27:22 I have a slightly different view of sales. And my career in sales began when I was called into an office and I was doing basically different kinds of human factors studies for Ray Kurzweil and computer Kurzweil Computer Products, dealing with reading machine for the blind and another technologies and finding out how to make them be better. I was called in one day and was told well, we're having to lay you off because you're not a revenue producer. And we need more revenue producers, unless you want to go into sales. And what I chose to do was to go into sales, I felt that God was leading me to do that. I had moved to Boston, and I didn't want to go off and try to find another job, especially when the unemployment rate among employable blind people back then, and still pretty much today is in the 65 to 70% range. But anyway, I took a 10 week, Dale Carnegie's sales course. And what I learned is that real sales, is, you can say that there's a transaction that takes place. But real sales is a lot more about being a teacher and a counselor, and learning what the customer needs. And seeing if what you say and what you can do, and if you can provide something to help meet those needs. And the reality is I've had situations where I've done demonstrations for customers, and even going into the demonstration and conversing with them learned that what we had wouldn't work for filling all of their needs. But I went ahead and did our product demonstrations for the purpose of saying, here's why what we have doesn't work. But the other side of that is by doing that. I was also building trust, and teaching people a lot about the technologies so that oftentimes we would get calls sometime later saying, we have another project and we understand what your product does, and it's perfect for what we want to do. So we're not even going to put it out for bid just give us a quote. But the reality is that the sales part is really more about teaching and developing and report, which is a lot of what happens in fundraising. Unfortunately, I think a lot of salespeople don't realize that. **Haley Cooper ** 29:52 Yeah, that I mean, that's valid. I like that. I like that reflection of what sales is, I think both in the comments All it is relationship building, and building that rapport, before you go to the transaction that is inevitable to happen if you've done your homework and you build that relationship. Yeah, you **Michael Hingson ** 30:11 got to do that otherwise, it doesn't work in the long run. And I've actually, as a public speaker, now, I've met people who I sold to many years before, and they would come up to me and say, Do you remember me, and sometimes I recognize their voices, but sometimes I didn't. But when they said who it was, we had all sorts of great conversations about it. But again, it was because of building the trust. And I think that's what real sales is all about. And the fact we're all if we're really cognizant of what we do in life, we're all selling in one way or another. And a lot of times, what we should be selling is being open to trust, and developing trusting relationships. And, you know, we are we are seeing in our society so much today, a lack of trust, or a lack of even being open to trust, because the people that we should be trusting aren't doing anything to earn our trust, which is also one unfortunate thing. **Haley Cooper ** 31:14 Yeah, and yeah, and I've seen that a lot in the nonprofit sector as well. Of, of that lack of trust, to giving, but I think, like you said, it is all about building that trust. And you know, on the board training I did last week, I was like, if you build that trust, if you build those relationships, because board members get there like we don't, we don't like asking, I'm not going to ask people for money. Now it's like, well, you don't have to ask for money, you can ask for advice. But the asking comes easy. If you have built that trust, if you have built that relationship, because it is so aligned, that it makes sense to ask that person if they're willing to give X amount of dollars, whatever, whatever it is, but it is all built on that trust and connection with the mission with the person who's facilitating that investment. Because otherwise, people don't want to give. Yeah, **Michael Hingson ** 32:08 so the people you were training last week, what were some of the backgrounds of the people who said they didn't like to ask for money. **Haley Cooper ** 32:16 And a lot of educational, higher ed professionals, like they did not have a network of people to ask. So or the financial ability to ask and to give. But we know that there's more than financial ability, what I coached them on was asking for advice. So if you ask for advice, I don't know the quote. But if you ask for advice, people give money. And so I think people in I don't remember the quote. But yeah, inviting people in and asking in a different way. And then also, you know, could you give $5 a month, instead of, you know, we've all heard that, like, give $5 instead of purchasing a Starbucks drink, which is now like $10, for one? Could you invite them to do like peer to peer fundraising? So is people who felt they didn't really have assets now to be more than network now to be able to give, but I kind of did the bubble chart with them. Or it was like, Where do you hang out? Like, what do you do identify one or two people of where you hang out? Whether that's like the gym or religious plays a chamber of commerce, your workplace, your family, friends? And then tell them about the mission? Like, yeah, people don't like my husband always has to remind me that I have a network of people that I can like, talk to you. Sometimes you just need that reminder that there are people out there. **Michael Hingson ** 33:41 Well, and another thing to look at is, what is teaching? Isn't that really a form of sales in a way because you're you're selling students on the idea of gaining knowledge. And the better teachers are the ones that can establish again that relationship and convey knowledge in a way that makes students want to pick it up. And if that isn't sales, I don't know what is. **Haley Cooper ** 34:09 Well, Annie, you know, this organization is serving at promise youth and it pairs college people, college students with kids K through eight, or I think that's what it is. But they understand, you know, what these youth experience. I mean, one in five students in California and the community college system are experiencing homelessness and hunger, so they understand it. So I'm like, Well, you understand it at a level of the students that have come across to you. So they have that level of passion and story that they can share. From that level of knowledge. **Michael Hingson ** 34:48 I really do believe that the best salespeople are teachers, first and foremost. And I think that's also true for fundraising, having been been very much involved in development work for six and a half years it Guide Dogs for the Blind. And it was fascinating to hear the development people say, this isn't a salesy thing at all. Well, they really need to maybe go back and look at things, but it's like so many things, people create their own mystique about what they do, rather than looking for the commonalities and ways to establish up a more synergistic relationship. **Haley Cooper ** 35:30 Yeah, I mean, I have to go back to them and say, like, you're a teacher, you make the perfect fundraiser? **Michael Hingson ** 35:35 Well, yeah, I mean, look what you're doing, you're, you're only trying to sell knowledge and convince people that they should learn this stuff, why should they learn it. And that's actually an interesting thing in society, we seeing all the stuff going on around the country, and whether it's book banning, or all the other things and people trying to talk about this whole concept of, we can't have critical race theory, or we have so many different things they, they're trying to, again, to, to sell stuff that makes no sense. Or there are a number of good teachers who are trying to sell things that do make good sense. And I think the biggest thing that we can teach people is to really evaluate for themselves, which is another whole story. Rather than just accepting, even from the best teachers, the best teachers would tell you go research it yourself and learn it. Because ultimately, teachers can't teach us all they can do is convey the knowledge we have to teach ourselves. That's good. You know, I used to say, I'm my own worst critic, and I realized earlier this year, actually, not the thing to say, I'm my own best teacher, because I am the one that's going to have to teach me to do whatever it is. And it's also a much more positive thing to say that. **Haley Cooper ** 36:52 Yeah, like that perspective, anything out of our own, it's always a learning opportunity, right? To teach us something. Yeah. And **Michael Hingson ** 37:00 that's just as much what fundraising is all about. Because you're, you're teaching people you want them to, to give, but you also want them to understand what's going on. And it is so hard, I think, for so many people here to realize what it must have been like in Malawi or, and other places, because we've not really as a society overall experienced a lot of that. I haven't experienced a lot of the poverty that that you have probably seen, and other people have seen, and I've been to a number of countries, but I've seen enough that I can understand it and relate to it. And I've also seen how blind people and people with physical disabilities are oftentimes treated here. Again, because people don't know how to relate. And we're not doing enough to really educate people about some of these things to get them to the point where they would be maybe much more apt to want to contribute to address the issues. **Haley Cooper ** 38:03 Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think the role is a fundraiser is to educate to educate people on the cause. Because, you know, like I said, I grew up in Orange County, and most people think of Newport Beach. But when it comes down to it, there's over, I don't know what the status is now. But when I was working with youth facing organizations are about 28,000 kids experiencing homelessness. And so you think of, you know, you think of Disneyland you think of Newport Beach, and so it was our role to explain what that looks like, like, what does homelessness look like for a family and also in inspire and inform? So I think those are the three areas that we have the privilege of fundraisers or nonprofit professionals. It's part of our responsibility is to educate, inform and inspire. **Michael Hingson ** 38:50 Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And maybe that's the most important part of the responsibility, because people have to start doing more thinking. And I certainly don't have any problem with somebody saying, Well, I hear what you're saying, but I'm going to check it out for myself. My response is go to it. But make sure you really check it out. And then let's talk about it. And you learn very quickly, who really checks things out and who doesn't, but it still is the way to do it. Yeah, I agree. So it's kind of fun. And I don't know, the world is an interesting place. And I think over time, we'll, we'll see that people will. I think, when they really think about it, we'll learn to investigate, but we've got to get back to encouraging people to do that. And one of the things I talk about a lot, and I mentioned it earlier is the whole issue of trust. We have so many environments where trust is under attack in our country. And that's the difference between us and dogs, right dogs don't trust arbitrarily. They love unconditionally but they don't trust unconditionally. but dogs are more open to trust, unless they've just been so abused. But typically, dogs are much more open to trust, and they want to establish a trusting relationship. We need to learn how to do more of that ourselves. **Haley Cooper ** 40:15 Yeah, I heard you say that on another podcast. I don't remember his name. But you had mentioned that and I was I was that that piqued my interest. And I think, you know, people have to do their due diligence because there's so much stuff, it readily access to things that you have to do you have to discern the truth for yourself and understand what is the truth and facilitate that trust? Yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 40:41 It's important to do that, when that will also tell you and teach you who you can trust or not trust. Yeah, that's true. So, anyway. So now do you work for yourself? Or do you work for a company or what? **Haley Cooper ** 40:59 So I had I in 2022, I embarked on my entrepreneurial journey to start my own business. I am a mom of now three kids under four. And working as a full time director development just wasn't realistic. When of my son, my oldest son is adopted, and he had some developmental delays. And so the all of 2022 was really dedicated to getting him services and working full time just wasn't realistic. Because as a fundraiser, you have to be available in mornings at all hours. And that just, you know, as becoming a mom, that just wasn't realistic. So I started my own business called the savvy fundraiser. And it's evolved in the last few years that it started. But you know, one thing that really, I found, and I'm trained in a process called the EMC process, it's about emotional connection. And that's, that's an area that, you know, I help facilitate psychological safety and trust within teams. You know, I've done the fundraising roles, I've done the fundraising trainings, but I truly believe that fundraise inside job, we have to take care of ourselves, we have to understand the language of emotions. And also, you know, it's, it's always a two fold thing, like it's an individual thing, but it's also a systemic thing. Because burnout is so pervasive in our culture, people are leaving, there's high turnover. And that that costs the sector a lot of money. And we're already limited resources. And so how can we better invest in our people and invest in ourselves to be able to do the work that we intend to do so my focus right now is group coaching and creating masterminds, but like I said, I also do trainings that help create emotional connection and buy in among staff members, so that they can actually focus on their fundraising efforts. And part of that is, you know, really understanding the language of emotions, because there's a lot of, you know, nonprofits, it's an emotional world. And like I said before, and we're seeing the hardest issues. And it can take us through, you know, the depths of sadness and anger to profound joy, where I saw a kid getting healthy, or a kid having access to food so that they can focus at school and getting good grades, and graduating college. And I think, you know, it's not just essential for our well being, but just building this idea of a culture of emotional connection. And facilitating that within ourselves, can actually increase your productivity. So that's where I'm at right now is really focusing on this process, and helping leaders understand the language of emotion and practice mindfulness practices, so that they can get back to that creative state of being. What **Michael Hingson ** 43:53 does EMC stand for? emotional connection, it is emotional connection. Yeah, so the EM is emotional and then connection. That's **Haley Cooper ** 44:02 right. And it was developed by Dr. Lola Gershenfeld, who is a mentor and coach of mine, and she developed it based on decades of experience. And you know, I found her in 2017 No, sorry, 2019 When I was in the midst of an organization that had a lot of burnout and stress, and I don't want to say toxicity, but that's probably too steep of a word, but there was there was just this, I should say disconnection between team members between me and the IDI and I'll totally on my part in that, but it was this lack of emotional disconnection, where we no longer felt in the team that we were safe. We didn't really trust each other we didn't feel seen or heard. And so you know, in those moments, productivity and effectiveness go down. So I thought out low let and I'm one of those people who likes to go all in so I was like, I want to become a trainer in this process. I See this in multiple organizations where people are really reactive. And when you know, we go into that flight or fight response, your amygdala is activated, and it takes over your prefrontal cortex and you're no longer able to communicate or collaborate. So my role is to really help, like calm your amygdala so you can get back to doing the work that you do. And that's by naming specific emotions. Because emotions are our high processing system, they tell us if we're in flight or fight mode, they help us go into that protection mode. And so they run fast. And so my job is to help you understand specific emotions, because from a science standpoint, it does help relax that amygdala and be able to turn on, like, be able to reconnect with each other. **Michael Hingson ** 45:50 Well, and unfortunately, we're living in a world today where fear is all around us. And people mark it with fear. And they're, they're doing things to stir up emotions. And again, people don't take the time to analyze, which is what really tends to drive people nuts after a while, because by not taking the time to slow down and be a little bit more mindful, they just become afraid or whatever. I'm actually writing a book called Live like a guide dog lessons I learned from a guide dogs in my life, by I forget the exact wording of the, the, the subtitle. But the whole point is that we're basing it around lessons I've learned from working with a guide dogs about how to control fear. And the reality is that we don't need to be as I would put it, blinded by fear, we can learn if we practice mindfulness, like you talked about. And if we really work at it, we can learn not to just go off the deep end, just because something unexpected happens like an airplane crashes into a building that we're in, or any number of other things that we can learn to let that fear be a strong motivator and a guide and an incentive to us. **Haley Cooper ** 47:16 Yeah, I'll be interested to read that book. Because I think fear is a huge thing in the nonprofit sector. I mean, especially as case managers or social workers, like if you're not on call, if you're not, you're working with the hardest issues, you're seeing the hardest issues, you're seeing people living on the street, you're seeing women being abused, you're seeing children being abused. And so if you're not working, like you're afraid that something bad is gonna happen. And so you have to you're in that flight and fight mode all the time. Because you're still focused on that fear, which is a valid fear, obviously, which is **Michael Hingson ** 47:54 a valid fear, but you can't be valid, but you have to get beyond it and not let it be the only thing that that drives you rather than being more strategic. **Haley Cooper ** 48:04 Yeah, definitely. **Michael Hingson ** 48:07 Now, my cat says she's abused all the time. So I, you know, I'm not sensitive to fear. But no, it's, but I hear what you're saying. And you're absolutely right. And people who are very committed to the the, the things that they do in the nonprofit world are, are very committed, because they, they appreciate it, they understand it, and they want to be successful and can't argue with that. **Haley Cooper ** 48:34 Yeah, and you think when, you know, part of this process, we go through different stages, and one of them is about fear. So, you know, we asked, like, how do you feel in your body emotions are stored in your body? And then, you know, I walked through this process with a family member because they were experiencing deep burnout. And I was like, What's your fear? Like, what are you fear about yourself about the organization, about the relationship, and it was that they were going to let that person down, or the organization was going to run out of money. And once we were able to really understand where that fear was from and the emotion surrounding that, because this person was stuck, like they were not able to move forward. And there was a clear path ahead. But they couldn't get to that because they were stuck in that fear. Just by naming it and understanding how they thought that fear impacted their relationships and themselves. They were able to make a decision. And that decision was to leave the organization. But it just helped them see that bigger picture and be able to be like, Oh, this makes sense. This is valid. But there's also another way. **Michael Hingson ** 49:44 We always think we have to be in control of everything. And the reality is there is so much that we don't directly have control over and one of the lessons that I talked about, and I'm sure you've heard it on another podcast where we've talked about it is don't worry about the things that you can't control focus Something that you can, because if you worry about everything else, you're just going to drive yourself crazy. **Haley Cooper ** 50:06 Yes, I'm a recovering control freak. So that that applies to be. **Michael Hingson ** 50:11 Well, we all have some of that, you know, and it is hard to let go. But it's important to learn to to let go. Now, you said your oldest son is adopted. Tell me about that. That must have been quite a challenge to go through. **Haley Cooper ** 50:26 Yeah, so you know, prior to 2019, my husband, I've been married for nine years now, I think eight and a half. I should, I should do the math. And either the first at least five years, we were like, we don't well, specifically me, I was like, I don't want kids, let's just live our life. But you know, working in shelters, and just seeing the heartbreak. Really. And then, you know, having a kid when I was in Malawi, he was 12. And I was 24 at the time was like, I'm going home with you, you're gonna adopt me. You know, I think, you know, if you are a believer, this is kind of God's call for me. He saved my life by going to Malawi, and then he really helped cultivate my heart for having children. And in 2018, I remember I was sitting in a shelter. And I heard a mom who, you know, had some mental health issues, say her five year old was too broken to be loved. And I was a fundraiser. So I wasn't really involved in the process. But I remember just breaking down and being so sad for that five year old and beat every single child, and I mean parent to deserves to be loved. And I went home, and you know, foster care. And adoption has been a story in my husband's side of the family. He has two adopted brothers. And I went home to him. And I was like, hey, guess what we're doing? We're gonna be some foster parents. And he was like, that just came out of left field. What like, Who are you is, are you my wife. And I, he was like, if you do the homework, I will go on this journey with you. So we decided to go through the county. And it took us about nine months, six to nine months to do all the training, you have to do a number of trainings. And, you know, he's broke my heart when you saw the, the movies or the show, like they had a number of videos of children who were like, Yeah, we were fostered. But every time the parents went on vacation, they would leave us home. We weren't allowed to go with them. And you know, as this process, we wanted to really take in a child and love them and give them the experiences that they deserved. And we became certified in March of 2020. When everything shut down, we literally got the notice like two days before everything shut down. And our social worker was like, there's no kids in the system. And whether that's because they were all fostered out. There's about 3000 children at any given day in the foster care system in Orange County. So or they weren't being identified because they weren't in school or after school activities. And that's where a lot of kids get identified. So we were just kind of sitting with a certification at home, trying to figure out what to do, and praying about it. And because you wanted a baby, and I get a call about a month later from my uncle, who was like, hey, a family member had her child taken away. And and he had seen that I had posted it on Facebook that I was a foster care parent. And so about in May of 2020, may 21 2020 is when we met our son, I will never forget it. He was so happy. We had to meet him in mass until we gotten to the car. We couldn't kiss him like in front of the social workers. We had to drive down to San Diego. And we picked him up and he's been in our family ever since. So we officially adopted him on my birthday two years ago. So I got engaged on my birthday and adopted a child on my birthday. No, I tell my husband adoption was a better gift. But don't tell him that. Wow, tough crowd. You're kidding. I'm just kidding. But they're wonderful guests. **Michael Hingson ** 54:08 Where is he anyway? Go ahead. **Haley Cooper ** 54:10 He's listening. He's rolling in the other room. And so yeah, I was so happy that we were able to and it was funny because we hadn't gotten any calls. And the day that I got him that next week, the next five days, I got a call each day saying hey, we have because we are emergency parents too. So we were we said like if there's someone who's just bored, we will take them out of the hospital like fresh baby. And you know, the challenge is that is you don't know what's going on. You don't know if they were on drugs, whatever. I literally got a call every single day that week, asking if we would take like a sibling pair or because we always said we would take somebody in Paris to so I had to put our foster care on pause because now I have three kids and it's funny last week actually got a call from our new social worker and I was like I'm not ready to open that door yet. I don't think it's closed. I think we probably will in the future. But yeah, it was. It's a really beautiful journey. And I'm so glad that he entered our life first and really feels like he's, I mean, he's my son. He's only called me mom. And every time I pick him up from school, and he runs with a big smile, saying, Mommy, I just don't take it for granted. And I'm just so grateful that I have the privilege of being his mom. But **Michael Hingson ** 55:24 the real burning question is, what about that now? 24 year old from Malawi? Is he going to come and knock at your door and say, hi, mom. **Haley Cooper ** 55:33 I don't know. His name is frm. And he was our first client in Malawi. And he was he was 16 Or no, how old was he? I think he was 12. But he had the body of like an eight year old, because he's so malnourished. Yeah. And he walked into her office, and he pointed me out. And he said, and then we followed up with him a couple months later, and he was happy and healthy. And yeah, I always remember that him telling me he wanted me to adopt him. And I was like, I'm just a child myself. **Michael Hingson ** 56:07 Do you ever hear from him seriously? Or any more I hear about **Haley Cooper ** 56:10 him? No, I haven't. But I **Michael Hingson ** 56:14 bet he'll never forget you. Because of all the things that you did. I've had as a as a student teacher, I've had students who I taught, and years later, and I never recognized her voice. It's changed so much. But they come up and say, Hey, Mr. Ensign, do you remember me, and this is a deep voice guy, you know when it is cool, but it's always nice to know that you make a difference. But you're not making the difference just to satisfy your own ego, you're doing it because you want to, to do good things. And it's always neat when you when you get to see the benefits of all that. **Haley Cooper ** 56:53 Well, and I think honestly, my life was changed more than maybe i i changed other people's lives unintentionally. So I think other people impacted me just as much. **Michael Hingson ** 57:05 Yeah, well, and that says it should be you, you get the chance to have other kinds of experiences and so on. And that's how we learn. **Haley Cooper ** 57:16 Yes, I definitely agree with that. **Michael Hingson ** 57:20 So what kind of advice would you give to young, aspiring fundraisers today that want to make a difference and are starting out just thinking they're gonna conquer the world? **Haley Cooper ** 57:31 I love this question. And I get asked it all the time **Michael Hingson ** 57:33  I bet you do. **Haley Cooper ** 57:37 Build a network and get a mentor. So I would say mentorship. First, when I first got into fundraising AFP, at least our local chapter offers a mentorship program. So I joined I mean, I'm one of those people if I joined something, I go all in. So I joined AFP. And I did their mentorship program, and out of that place, and now an organization that I'm a Board Chair of I just over the years, I've been able to build a network. So those relationships have helped me find clients now. But also, they're just people that help you navigate the ups and downs and help you brainstorm ideas. So mentorship, or coaching in a network of people that you can rely on. One **Michael Hingson ** 58:19 of the things that I have always done, and I always encourage people to do especially, but not only when they're starting out a new job, but even on the job is picture yourself as a student first, especially when you're starting out. You can be a student for a year. And you can, as you pointed out earlier, ask lots of questions. And people mostly love to relate to people, where they're asked questions, and they can convey knowledge, and help guide people, people love to do that. But I think that playing if you will, the student card for your first year on a new job is a reasonable thing to do. But I also think that even the most experienced person, other people are going to come along with experiences and different perspectives that are just as relevant and may show you something that you didn't even think of. And so we should always be interested in learning and never think that we know it all. **Haley Cooper ** 59:23 Anything sometimes you know, when you're like focusing on something so hard, like you need that outside perspective to take you out of the bubble and help you give that new perspective. And honestly, if you ask questions to people, like you said, people are like, I have people who don't, they're busy. They don't need to meet with me, but they do and I think that's the important part is if you're going to take time with either a mentor or a network of people. I mean obviously relationships are first and you want to make it authentic, but make it intentional. Like if you have quiet come with questions to your mentor come with goals that you Want to work on make it intentional. So it's a beneficial time for both you and the mentor. **Michael Hingson ** 1:00:06 And that's the real operative part about it. It's for both of you. And make no mistake, your mentor will be learning along the way as well. If they're any good at all. Yeah, I **Haley Cooper ** 1:00:19 would agree with that. **Michael Hingson ** 1:00:21 I love to try to make people laugh. I know when I go through airports, I always try to make the TSA people laugh, because they have such a thankless job. But even today, on the phone, I had to call someone, and then ask a question. And when they when they answered, they, of course, didn't know me. They didn't know who I was. But the first thing they said is, so how can I help you? And I said, Well, I'm looking for a million dollars, can you just shoot that right out? And that was the whole point is that they laughed. And you know, we kind of went from there. And I really think that we need to respect people more. People always ask me how much I will charge to, to give a speech. And I don't want to abuse anyone too much. But I always love to tell people. Well, in 2016, Hillary Clinton got $250,000 for speaking to Goldman Sachs. And I think I'm worth as least as much as she is. Nobody's taking me seriously with that. Yeah, nobody said no problem. We can give you that. Very disappointing, you know? **Haley Cooper ** 1:01:23 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Humor is an important part and treat treating people with respect. I always, you know, my big thing is like, if you're a minute grocery store, and it's taking a long time, you go to the cashier, you're next and they always apologize. And I'm like, hey, it's fine. Like, not I tried to go with Yeah, Grace, instead of being like, I've been waiting here for 10 minutes, you can just figure it out. Because you know, they're getting that all day by other people's have that one kind interaction? You never know what that'll do for their day? No. **Michael Hingson ** 1:01:57 And it doesn't, and you don't need to know, sometimes you will find out and and always will be a positive thing. But you don't need to know, it's still important to do it. **Haley Cooper ** 1:02:07 Definitely, yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:09 Well tell me if people want to reach out to you and learn more about what you do. Maybe explore using your services and so on. How do they do that? **Haley Cooper ** 1:02:18 So I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. It's Haley Cooper CFRE. And Haley is spelled H a l e y. And then Cooper's C o o p e r, that's my very name. And also the savvy fundraiser.com. My business is the savvy fundraiser. So mostly on LinkedIn is probably where I hang out. And you can always connect with me DM me, and I would love to chat. Well, **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:45 that is how we connected and I'm so glad that we did. I really appreciate you coming on and being with this and spending an hour chatting about all this, we'll have to do more of it. When are you going to write a book about fundraising and all the things that you do? **Haley Cooper ** 1:03:00 You know, maybe in a couple years when my kids are older, but someone did tell me that that is on my growth trajectory is to write a book. So are you going to? **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:10 Well, I believe everyone has stories to tell. And even if you need help writing it, it's worth doing. So I hope that that you will do it. That'll be fun that you'll have to come back and tell us all about it. **Haley Cooper ** 1:03:25 That sounds great. **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:26 And we'll let you know when live like a guide dog comes out. **Haley Cooper ** 1:03:30 Well, thank you so much, Michael, you've been such a gift to me, and I've really enjoyed talking to you. **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:36 Well, let's stay in touch. And I hope that all of you listening out there will stay in touch as well. We really appreciate you listening. Hayley and I both do. We'd love to hear from you. You know how to reach her and you can reach me as well. You can email me Michaelhi at accesibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And hingson is h i n g s o n. Love to hear your thoughts love to hear what you thought about our episode today. Hopefully it was positive and that you learned something and took something away from it. Wherever you are, and however you're listening, please give us a five star rating. We really appreciate your ratings and your comments. And of cour

It's a huge problem. And because of it, we're losing many of our best youth to the world, the flesh, and the devil. Too often, the young people in our churches run off to college or university and subsequently abandon the faith. Also, in our churches there often is a big chasm between what happens in youth or college groups, and what is going on in adult church. The younger generation isn't learning how to connect or get involved in service to Christ within the body. Many recognize these problems, and some pastors are actually doing something radical and visionary to rectify it. One such pastor is Gary Malkus, Jr. Gary is the senior pastor of Calvary Chapel in Victorville, California. Gary's story was told in SFTP episode 155. In epidode 156, Gary's vision to reach the next generation is told. What he has to say will get pastors and youth leaders thinking, and some will be moved to do something about their thoughts. For the sake of God's kingdom... --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bill-holdridge/support

(2:37) The $50,000,000,000,000 gift. From workers in the U.S. to the top 1%, “free of charge”(7:09) Speaking of numbers, the amount of homelessness in the U.S. broke records this year(10:04) 7 of the Victorville 8, better known as the Justice 8, are still being held without bail in San Bernardino County!!(13:10) Call the Victorville D.A.’sContinue reading THE RENT IS DUE. WHERE IS MY MONEY?? →

September 4th, 2019 was a beautiful morning in the desert city of Victorville, California. For most residents in the neighborhood of the 13,000 block of Cabazon Court it was just another morning: quiet and uneventful. Inside one residence, however, chaos was brewing, and it would soon spill out onto the street, shattering the peace and quiet with screams and gunfire. By 8:35 that morning, 26-year-old Meagan McCarthy, a San Bernardino County Sheriff's Deputy, would be brutally beaten and shot at with her own gun. And the man who attacked her, 21-year-old Ari Young, would be shot six times by responding deputies. Surprisingly, Ari survived and went on to defend his actions in court. With much of the mayhem caught on video, the incident remained in headlines for years. The disturbing images scrutinized and reviewed on social media and television over and over, as tensions between law enforcement and the public rose across the nation. Four years later, the case came to a close with one of the most hotly debated verdicts in recent history. Was there a massive miscarriage of justice? Or, did the jury see something others didn't and get the verdict right? In what appeared to be an open and shut case, everyone involved would be reminded that what appears on video ..isn't always what it seems. Follow Jami on Instagram & TikTok @JamiOnAir and join the Serial Streamers true crime TV club! Subscribe to Jami's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@jamionair Sponsors: Green Chef: Visit greenchef.com/60murderish and use code 60murderish for 60% off + 20% off your next two months. Shopify: Visit shopify.com/murderish (all lowercase) to sign up for a $1/month trial period. Sideshow: Visit Sideshow.com and use code MURDERISH to get $50 off a $200 purchase. Lipstick & Lies - Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lipstick-lies/id1704189120?i=1000625570159 Dirty Money Moves: Women in White Collar Crime - Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dirty-money-moves-women-in-white-collar-crime/id1619521092. Want to advertise on this show? We've partnered with Cloud10 Media to handle our advertising requests. If you're interested in advertising on MURDERISH, send an email to Sahiba Krieger sahiba@cloud10.fm with a copy to jami@murderish.com. Research & Writing: Gina Mazzolini Visit Murderish.com for more info about the show and Creator/Host, Jami, as well as a list of sources for this episode. Ad-Free episodes: Visit https://www.patreon.com/Murderish to join MURDERISH | Behind the Mic and get access to bonus episodes, ad-free episodes, and other cool perks. Listening to this podcast doesn't make you a murderer, it just means you're murder..ish. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did you know that there are more than 10,000 rare diseases in the United States? So, what is a rare disease? Meet Rob Long who survived a very rare aggressive form of brain cancer, called anaplastic astrocytoma. When diagnosed, Rob was well on his way to securing a professional football career. He had been an All American punter for Syracuse University until he had to undergo brain surgery in his senior year. He was given a slim chance of surviving for more than a few months. 13 years later Rob and I got to meet and you get to hear our conversation. After a year of chemo and radiation therapy Rob recognized that he was not going to have a football career. However, as you will hear, football was an integral part of his healing. Today Rob is the executive director of Uplifting Athletes, an organization that combines sports with various projects to raise funding on research concerning rare diseases. This conversation is for me one of the most fascinating and, yes, uplifting ones I have had the pleasure to host. I hope you find it worth your time. About the Guest: Rob Long, Executive Director of Uplifting Athletes A suburban Philadelphia native, Rob is a former All-American punter at Syracuse and has lived the rare disease journey. In December of 2010, late in his senior season, Rob was diagnosed with anaplastic astrocytoma, a rare and aggressive form of brain cancer. His prognosis at the time was less than encouraging, and his surgery, recovery, and treatment took 16 months. Prior to his diagnosis, Rob was on a path to the NFL as a punter, but that opportunity was lost by the time he was healthy enough to train again. A graduate of Syracuse University, Rob pursued a Masters in New Media Management from the SI Newhouse School of Public Communications. He also received a BS from the Martin J. Whitman School of Management. Rob played football all four years for the Orange and was voted team captain by his teammates his final two seasons. He became the second Executive Director of Uplifting Athletes at the end of 2018. Prior to taking over as the Executive Director, Rob served as Uplifting Athletes' Director of Rare Disease Engagement for nearly two years. Rob has a steadfast commitment and connection to the rare disease community as a rare brain cancer survivor. As a former star college football student-athlete, his passion and drive to advance the mission of Uplifting Athletes is inspirational. Rob and his wife, Irie, reside in suburban Philadelphia with their dogs Winston and Rocket. Ways to connect with Rob: Twitter: https://twitter.com/roblong47 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roblong47/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roblong47/ Uplifting Athletes' Important Links: Website: https://upliftingathletes.org/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/UpliftingAth LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/3007008/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/upliftingathletes Instagram: https://instagram.com/upliftingathletes YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/upliftingathletes Donation: https://upliftingathletes.org/donate About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes **Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit  www.accessibe.com  to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. **Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, Hi, and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Mike Hingson. We are recording this in the summer of 2023. And we were just comparing notes. Our guest Rob Long is just outside Philadelphia. And one of the folks that he works with Valerie is up in Connecticut where it's over 90 today. And Rob and I probably are around the same temperature. It's about 82 or 83 here, but last week, it was over 100. And in fact for most of July, it was over 100 out here in Victorville. So go figure. But we all cope. And we all get along and do what we need to do. So Rob is the executive director of uplifting athletes, and he's going to tell us about that as we move forward. Rob, among other things, is a person who has had to deal with a rare disease. And again, I'm going to leave most of that for him to talk about, but he's an inspiration. And I'm really honored to have him on unstoppable mindset. He is another one of the folks who got introduced to us by our nonprofit partner manager, Sheldon Lewis, who got interviewed quite a while ago on this on this podcast. Well Rob, so welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. **Rob Long ** 02:39 Thank you so much for having me, Mike. I'm thrilled and honored to have the opportunity to to join. **Michael Hingson ** 02:46 Well, why don't we start kind of where I love to usually start in this hearing about the early Rob, you know, growing up and some of that kind of stuff. **Rob Long ** 02:55 Sounds good. So probably go back. Gosh, back about 15 years ago, I was graduating high school outside Philadelphia and was fortunate to have received a full scholarship to play football at Syracuse University. I was a punter and kicker and was thrilled at the opportunity to play division one sports and really just got up on campus and I fell in love with with the university and playing football I had so much fun and I met so many great teammates that I still keep in touch with today. As I ventured through my college career, I was fortunate to have a really good career at Syracuse and was a freshman all American my first year and started to really I think capture some some intention from NFL scouts. And so by the time my senior year was starting, I was a captain my junior year I was elected a captain by my teammates my senior year as well. And going into my senior year, I pretty much just was focused on putting the football and doing what I needed to do and I would end up playing in the NFL. And you know, my biggest concern was which of the 32 teams were going to draft me and went in senior year and pretty much from the jump. Things did not go quite as I had expected. By the time my senior year was wrapping up, I still was having a pretty good year by regular standards on the field, but I knew there was something that was not quite right and Thanksgiving morning of 2010 I woke up was extremely sick and just kept throwing up and couldn't figure out what was happening. And you really just don't know how to describe it other than, like, I couldn't stop vomiting for two hours, two plus hours. Finally had stopped and made it down to the football facility, talk to the doctors, and I said, Hey, like, something's wrong, I, you know, I don't feel well. And they tried to give me some Pepto Bismol and pretzel sticks. And I threw those up as well. And so they kind of just didn't know what to do. I kind of hung around the facility. And as time passed, I, you know, started to feel a little bit better as the day went on. And, you know, pretty much by the end of the day, I kind of was like, Alright, I don't know what that was all about. And that was a Thursday. Two days later, I played my final college game against Boston College at home against Syracuse. And it was during that game, where I really started to feel the physical effects of what was happening to me, I, by the time I was punting, I had no idea when I dropped the ball out of my hand if it was going to hit my foot. And so really started to show on the field that something wasn't going quite right. So went back to the doctor, the team trainers after the game. And they said, We're going to make an appointment with team doctor. So I met with the team doctor, and he said, we're just going to start to try and rule some things out, sent me for an MRI of my brain. And it was December 2 2010. And I remember kind of joking with my mom before going into the MRI filling out the paperwork was my first time ever filling out medical paperwork and all those kinds of things. And went in had the MRI and about five minutes into the MRI of my brain, the radiate, radiologist stopped the machine and she came out and choose white as a ghost. And she said, hey, everything's fine. And she's speaking very fast, he was very pale, and said, we just need to run some more tests. And so they ran some more tests had a longer MRI gave me contrast, I all these things that I would later come to find out, you know, things weren't fine. And that's not normal procedure for somebody that, you know, has a normal brain scan. And so I remember walking out of the MRI room, and, you know, she was kept talking to her telling me stories trying to comfort me, but the whole time, I had no idea what was wrong or what was happening. And so she sent me out and just said, you know, good luck with everything. And I got back to the football facility. And that evening, met with the team doctor to have the MRI read and walked into the training room and the entire training staff was there. All of the team doctors, a few of my coaches were there. And generally that meant that a player had a season ending injury. And so I walked in and made it kind of a joke at the time. I was like, Oh, this must not be good. And nobody thought that was funny. So kind of realized that I was probably in trouble at that point. And sat down and the team doctor said you have a large growth in your brain. And you can see a specialist first thing in the morning. And, yeah, so I had to, I called called home. I knew given my mom's family's history of cancer. You know, I didn't have the heart to tell her. So I call my dad and he was on his way into his, his job. He was working second shift at the time. And he said, You know, I told him I had a growth in my brain and you're gonna see a specialist and say, I can't believe this. He said, I just left your mom at your aunt's house. Your hand Chrissy my mom's younger sister had been diagnosed with breast cancer earlier that day. So in the span of about eight hours, my mom found out that her youngest sister had breast cancer and that her only son had a brain tumor. So it was a it was a tough one for us at that time. **Michael Hingson ** 09:26 Needless to say, yeah. So what did they finally diagnosed he was having. **Rob Long ** 09:33 So after I got I saw the specialist the next day, I walked in and on my on the screen was my MRI and I had never seen a brain MRI before and there was a large white mass that took up a quarter of my brain. And then neurologists that basically said that's not supposed to be there. So they flew me home to Philadelphia And that's four days later, I met with a team of surgeons at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia. I had spent my 22nd birthday getting prepped for brain surgery on December 13 of 2010. The next day I had brain surgery, and then six days later, I went back to the hospital to get the pathology report. They diagnosed me with a grade three anaplastic astrocytoma it is of the glioma family. So if you familiar with a glioblastoma, my type of tumor thigh my diagnosis, the five year survival rate was 15%. And the doctors told my parents at that point, probably had about 36 months to live. **Michael Hingson ** 10:48 Wow. And obviously, that didn't help the football career. And so that meant a lot of changes. But somewhere along the line, you obviously did something, right, because it's now been more than 36 months. It has. **Rob Long ** 11:08 Yeah, it's, we're over 12 and a half years now, believe it or not, I've been incredibly lucky. And so after I got my diagnosis, essentially went to went back to the doctors, and they gave him my options. And they said, there's a chemotherapy that you can take, it is the first first chemotherapy of its kind that has been FDA approved to penetrate the blood brain barrier. And along with that, I did 36 rounds of whole brain radiation. So they pretty much provided my life limit of radiation in about six and a half weeks, or about six weeks, and did chemotherapy every single day for for 30 days during that or for six weeks during that radiation period. And then took a month off and did another 12 months of chemotherapy, which are 28 day cycles. So go in the worst part of all of this was really the mental challenge that it presented, especially going through the 12 months of chemotherapy, because it was 28 day cycles. So I would spend 23 days preparing for five days of chemotherapy, and then I'd spend the next three weeks trying to gain all the weight back that I lost, trying to eat whatever I could to gain weight, knowing that I would lose about 15 pounds, going through my week of of chemo and be sick and not be able to eat certain things. And so think it was, you know, the definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting different results. Right. And it was that was my life for over a year. And it really took a mental and emotional toll over time. **Michael Hingson ** 13:17 Certainly that makes a lot of sense. I can kind of understand it. But at the same time, what were you thinking that got you through all of that? Or were were you just kind of maintaining at the time? Or did you have any other kinds of thoughts that that really helped drive you through it? Yeah, **Rob Long ** 13:34 though, one thing that got me going every single day was that I refuse to let this diagnosis be the thing that was the end of my life. I didn't want it to kill me. I didn't want my parents to have to deal with that. I wanted to play football. I wanted to end my football career on my terms, not because I was diagnosed with this, this disease and that's what I did every single day that I could I went to the gym, even days where I couldn't lift because my my blood cells weren't very Cooper ating fast enough, I would at least just go and show up and hang out and it was just a part of my routine every single day. You know, when I was going through chemo and radiation, I'd wake up I'd do my chemo first thing. I'd go to the hospital, I would do radiation. I'd come home from that. And pretty much go right to the gym and then take a nap eat dinner. And that was my life. And that was what I did. And it was the people that I saw every day. It was the the drive that I had that I wanted to. I wanted to get better. I wanted to play football in the NFL. That was my that was my dream and I wanted to do whatever it could take to make that happen. **Michael Hingson ** 15:00 So football really, in every sense of the word kept you going. And the fact that you had developed such a team spirit and working with a team and so on, were the people around you at the gym and all that pretty supportive, how to how did they all react to all of this? **Rob Long ** 15:15 They were unbelievable. I mean, I don't know. And they're just there. They're incredible. And I think the most important thing for me was that they saw me every day, they knew why I was there. And they just treated me like, I was anybody else that came to the gym and was just trying to work out and to get better. It wasn't about my cancer, we didn't talk about it every day, probably rarely talked about it. But talked about everything else that was happening in the world. And I think that sense of, of normalcy was what I was after, because I had no control over anything at that point. And so I was just trying to seek some level of consistency. And that's what I found. By working out by going to the field and putting footballs, that was the one thing that, you know, I knew I could put effort in and get reward out of and, you know, my health was, more or less not in my hands, or not as nearly as much in my hands as I would have wished it was. At the **Michael Hingson ** 16:29 same time, though. While you didn't have any real control over a lot of that, as we often talk about here on unstoppable mindset where you did have control over it was how you dealt with it. And you clearly did you develop the mindset and you stuck to it, and you developed an attitude. And you decided that you were gonna do everything you could to, to continue to grow and move forward, which had to be certainly a challenge. And a lot of things happen along the way that could try to topple that, but you did great. **Rob Long ** 17:01 Yeah, I, I don't know. Your where it all came from, I think there was a lot of lot of discipline and things that were instilled in me playing football at a high level, you know, that there's things that you need to take care of, in order to hold up your end of the bargain for your teammates and the people around you. And, you know, when I'm no longer on a team, and I'm going through treatment, like I still am going to do whatever I can to, to hold up my end of the bargain. And that means, you know, being there for my family and doing the things that I need to do. So that that I can be as helpful as I can. And I think for me, the the biggest piece is just knowing and I've learned this by going through what I've gone through is that at the end of the day, like you have to be the one that wants it and you need to be the one that is going to do it. And there is nobody there to tell me to go pump footballs, there's nobody there to tell me to go to the gym each day. In fact, there's probably a few people telling me not to go to the gym each day. But it was something that it provided me something to do and something to look forward to. That was not revolving around my medical diagnosis. **Michael Hingson ** 18:26 Yeah, there are just some things you do have to do for yourself. Nobody can do them for you, which is what you clearly discovered and realized. And so you you moved ahead, where your coaches supportive you weren't back at Syracuse, needless to say, you were down in Philadelphia. So did you hear from them or your teammates? In even now today? Do you still hear from them at all? **Rob Long ** 18:48 Yeah, they're, they're unbelievable. And I think it's, you know, a huge part of of why I you know, and I know we haven't talked about yet but of why the why we do the work that we do with uplifting athletes. It's there's an unbelievable power in in sports. And there's a camaraderie that is built there is a it's a it's another family. It's a non blood related family that you develop. And it's an incredible, incredible feeling to have the support of so many people I remember after surgery after my diagnosis. It was the first time in my football career in four years at Syracuse, we'd made it to a bowl game and I think the first time in probably seven or eight years that Syracuse had been to a bowl game. And my senior year we got to a bowl game. And you know, my my senior class had been a big part of why we were in a bowl game that year and I had surgery 17 days before our bowl game, and my goal was to get to that bowl game regard Are those of us anything else and it was quite an adventure to get there. But I did get there. Despite a New York City Blizzard trying to prevent that from happening, I got to the ballgame. And I saw my teammates. And to this day, one of the best days of my life, I just saw every single one of them, they gave me a hug. They were joking around with me messing around with me. And again, it was, it wasn't about me, or what I had been through, it was just about being back with my brothers, with my friends, and coaches and, and the staff that supported me and continued to to this day or are, you know, a huge reason of why I'm able to be where I am. **Michael Hingson ** 20:43 And I could go back and research but at Syracuse when we did all right now we're talking. Who did you play? Kansas State? Ah, there you go. Yep. **Rob Long ** 20:55 Yeah, point an old Yankee Stadium or new Yankee Stadium, Yankee Yankee Stadium. So, yeah, it was an awesome experience. So **Michael Hingson ** 21:03 do you think you've been there helps the team and contributed? Maybe, how but it did. **Rob Long ** 21:11 It was. It was just I think they were all and, you know, understandably, so concerned about me. It all happened very quickly, right? Sure. We played your final game, I think November 28. And within five days, I had been told that I had, you know, a tumor. And within three weeks, I was told that I had a rare and aggressive form of cancer. So it all went very quickly. So I think for them to see me after hearing all this, because I was, you know, away from them. And I think for them to see me, even without my hair was still you know, good to know that for them that was you know, still operating and doing what I love to do. And **Michael Hingson ** 22:00 you inspired I will bet anything that if you ask them, they would tell you, you inspired which is which is cool. So you went through a year of all of this, and then what did you do, because probably the Giants nor anyone else were going to hire you. **Rob Long ** 22:17 So I went through chemo, I actually, I worked out on my pro day, I probably shouldn't know. But I did. So I got to work out for a few of the NFL teams there. And, you know, over the next couple of years, I actually worked out for a handful of NFL teams. But once I kind of missed the draft, it becomes a very difficult league to break into there's jobs in the world, and every single one of them was filled the year before. So it's not only about being good enough, it's also about the opportunity that is presented. And so after about two years of of really trying to to make it work, I went back to school at Syracuse, I got my master's degree. And so I was trying to just keep things moving forward while still trying to fulfill this dream. And I went to a prospect camp in Arizona. And there was this sense of peace that I had, after going to that prospect camp that I had worked. For the last 24 months, I'd battled through 12 months of chemotherapy, I'd gone to the gym, I'd worked out, I'd done everything that I could do. And I pretty much went to that prospect camp and I said, I don't really care how this goes, go, I think I'm done. I think I'm done trying to play football. And I realized that I had you know, I was fortunate to be in a place that I didn't feel like I needed football to be successful. I felt like that I could go and do something else and and find a way to, to live my life that, you know, helped me be happy. And I didn't need football to do that. And I think that was a big turning point in my life that you know, I just had to walk away from from it on my terms. And I was super proud of myself for being able to get to that point. And I think that's something that you really allowed me to just close the book on that chapter of my life and be able to focus on the new hand of cards that I had been dealt. **Michael Hingson ** 24:31 You know, what's interesting, is that you clearly, were very committed to wanting to play football and it was what was driving you. But you were also able to take that leap and recognize, okay, things have changed. I know a lot of people don't seem to be able to do that when something else comes along. Why do you think that you were able to to actually go in a different direction and be comfortable about it because football had been said part of your life. **Rob Long ** 25:03 I think there was a lot that went into it, I think. I think I went through many, many mental health kind of struggles throughout the time since my diagnosis. And I think one of those, you know, there was this sense of anger that I had about my situation, that I felt that I kind of had been robbed of my dream. And I don't think I was able to process that in the most healthy of ways. And so, I got to a point for a while where I didn't really enjoy football, I didn't, I wouldn't watch it, I wouldn't, you know, be happy about going into practice, I would still do it. But I wasn't, I wasn't having fun, like, I lost that. Let fun. That was kind of what made football so amazing in the first place. And I think being able to kind of take a step back and just say, hey, like, you're, you're in a position that most kids dream about, you have the opportunity to play you played at Syracuse, you have the opportunity to try out in the NFL like, this is this is awesome like this, you should be happy for what you've done and where you've gotten to. And I think there was there's pieces of that where I was like, I want to be able to enjoy your my life and the things that come along with it. Knowing that I have absolutely no idea how much time I have left on this earth. You know, I just kind of felt like, I don't need to be seeking some other kind of form of validation of trying to figure out, you know, really where you're where my self worth was. And I wanted to be kind of in control of that, and to be able to move that forward. And I kind of realized that football was not going to be the path for me to be able to do that. **Michael Hingson ** 27:10 Well, what was your major when you were going through undergraduate? **Rob Long ** 27:16 So my undergrad was marketing and supply chain management. And then my master's was in New Media Management from the Newhouse School of Communications. So essentially, you know, a management degree from a communications school. **Michael Hingson ** 27:33 So a little different than undergraduate work, but still all about being in the management world, and you obviously made the leap and you, you then decided to do it. So how long ago did you get your Masters **Rob Long ** 27:48 2015 I, so about eight years, I finished my master's degree. And I got a job, I worked a couple jobs. And, you know, it was just doing sales at one point, and it just wasn't really feeling incredibly fulfilling. You know, it was work, it was okay. But I still having your left football and kind of that part of my life. It still hadn't, I didn't quite landed on where I was supposed to be. I had been working with opposing athletes as a kind of in a volunteer capacity. In 2012, my teammates at Syracuse started the Syracuse chapter of uplifting athletes in my honor. And it was, it was incredible. They got this, this thing started at Syracuse that had already existed, but started the Syracuse chapter, after my diagnosis. And I remained very involved with that. And it was something that I would talk to the team about, you know, each year and we would go and fundraise in the community and bring awareness to the rare disease community. And, for me, these little like, these little opportunities to kind of get a taste of of what this organization did, I was so drawn to it. And it's ultimately what led me to reach out to the founder of uplifting athletes in 2016. And I said, Hey, is there any chance that I could join this organization full time, and he was, you know, very receptive to having me on board. And so the timing worked out is such that, you know, our founder, had kind of built this organization for about seven years that he had really kind of built this grassroots movement to align sports with the rare disease community and I think it was just such a cool concept and I really loved that and I had experienced, you know, what benefits had been brought to me, you know, as an athlete. And so I think from that standpoint, it was something that I was like this this is it like this is this is something that I can I can do and I can be in Korea. really passionate about. So Scott brought me on up with the athletes in 2016. And he had started a for profit venture just about a year later. And so the timing worked out is such that I got to work it up with the athletes starting 2016. And then two years later in 2018, was promoted to the executive director role. And that is where it's just been an amazing opportunity for me to take my lived experiences, you know, as an athlete, as someone who was diagnosed with a rare disease, and take this awesome concept of an organization and kind of helped build it to what I believe it can become. **Michael Hingson ** 30:50 Well, you clearly found your niche, and you were open to looking, which is really probably at least half the battle anyway. But you, you did it, and you wanted to find something where you thought you could fit in, and it sounds like you have but tell us a little bit about what uplifting athletes is all about. **Rob Long ** 31:10 So one thing athletes, our mission is to build ours to harness the power of sport to build a community that invests in the lives of people impacted by Rare diseases. So what does this all mean is that we have the ability to take the platform that sports provides, and bring more awareness, attention and funding to the rare disease community. It's something that has been really incredible to be able to see the evolution of the organization, we kind of live at a cross section of, of sports and rare diseases. And so one of the things that was really fundamental to who we are at uplifting athletes when, when my colleague Brett and I took over leadership of the the organization was that you'll really want to focus on research. And so we knew that we needed to kind of develop a program that we really owned as an organization, we could get some sponsors for and we could celebrate, you know, the people doing amazing work in our community. And so, in 2018, we launched this this kind of crazy program at the time called the Young Investigator draft. It was modeled after the NFL Draft, but instead of drafting the top athletes in the country, we were drafting and funding the top researchers in the rare disease community. **Michael Hingson ** 32:35 So to deal with definitions, what are we classifying as a rare disease. **Rob Long ** 32:42 So a rare disease, there's over 10,000 Rare Diseases, rare disease in the United States is a condition that impacts less than 200,000 Americans in a given year. So of the 10,000 Rare Diseases, 95% of them do not have an FDA approved treatment. So we have over 30 million people in the United States living with a rare disease 27, over 27 million of them go to the doctors and do not have access to an FDA approved treatment. I realized pretty early on that I was one of the lucky few that had access to an FDA approved treatment. And that's why I'm sitting here having this conversation with you. And so really what our hope is through the Young Investigator draft is to invest in to fund and support the next generation of researchers. So that we can start to establish the pipeline of research that is required to bring a therapy to market. And so that's where the young investigator draft is born. We launched the program and 2018 and got to be honest, I didn't really know what I was doing at the time, but we seem to have figured it out along the way. And we've been able to partner with 33 different patient advocacy organizations in the rare disease space, and to fund 44 researchers and over $820,000 in research grants in the last four and a half years. **Michael Hingson ** 34:04 So how does sports get involved in all that? **Rob Long ** 34:08 So we kind of use the the concept, the excitement of sports to build up the draft specifically. So it's held at the eagle Stadium in Philadelphia. Everybody comes in, it's a draft environment. We have athletes that are making the picks. So we have our college student athletes that we work with, from our colleges and chapters across the country. They come and they're part of the event. And they get to call up the researchers who are going to be presented their research grants and so each researcher gets a jersey with their name on the back, just as if they were an athlete, but you importantly they get a research grant that allows them to move their research forward. **Michael Hingson ** 34:55 What are the sizes of some of the grants **Rob Long ** 34:59 so in Initially, we had our first year, we funded six researchers in $10,000. In grants. This past year, we funded 10, researchers and $20,000 $20,000 grants over $200,000 and research grants this year, and we're going to be doing at least that again in 2024. And that'll take us over a million dollars in research funded through our first six young investigator draft. So we've we've certainly made some headway. And we're really excited to see the progress that has been made with these research trends that we've been able to fund, have you been **Michael Hingson ** 35:35 able to reach out to people like any of the owners of sports teams, since there's usually some money there and talk with them about helping to fund some of the stuff? **Rob Long ** 35:47 Yeah, so it's part of kind of where we're at as an organization is trying to get more partners and supporters on board, we have a lot of the teams in the NFL specifically that we work with, we have a handful of Major League Baseball teams that we work with. And it's kind of one of the ways that we've been able to kind of take the next step as an organization. So we've talked about the research grant program, and we had kind of had the ability to reflect last year on, we've built kind of the first step in what we want to do as an organization invest in the next generation of research. Simultaneously, we had built this unbelievable network of athletes and professional sport teams that we were connected with. And so really in an effort to to leverage those relationships, we launched a new program late last fall, or I guess I should say, revitalized a program late last fall caught up with the experiences. And really what this does is provides people impacted by a rare diagnosis, the opportunity to connect with an athlete or a team, kind of similar to you know, make a wish type of situation, but being able to bring the entire family, the care partners, parents, siblings, and then we always try to bring, you know more than one family to our uplifting experiences events. Because as I said, there's a part of our mission is really to build that community. And so that's how we've been really able to leverage these sports partnerships and relationships is, is getting them to open their doors and roll at the red carpet for these families that otherwise would not have the opportunity to go to a baseball game or to go attend spring training in Florida or Arizona or go see behind the scenes of the Steelers stadium or in Kansas City at Arrowhead Stadium. And so we're providing these opportunities to not only get kind of a behind the scenes tour of, of these really unique venues, but also to go to the games, experience them and spend that time together. So **Michael Hingson ** 37:55 it's clearly not just dealing with the fundraising and dealing with the athletes, it's also dealing with the people who have rare diseases and trying to help motivate them to have some of the same successes that you've had. It sounds like, **Rob Long ** 38:11 correct, it's, it's really been about just providing opportunities for families to just feel included. And, you know, there's so much that you don't appreciate with what these families have to deal with, or that I didn't appreciate for what these families didn't have that have to deal with. It's, it's not just getting tickets and going to a game is, you know, what supplies do we need to bring with us? Where do we park? What entrance? Can we go through? How do we get to our seats, our seats together, as you know, their Ada, seating and all these other things that we as an organization, we take care of when we put together these events. Our goal is to make sure that the families that we work with have a truly positive experience. And I think, you know, big picture when we were talking about you know, how we build out this program and how it fits into what we do as an organization. It's really that, you know, we started and have continued and maintained the Young Investigator draft the research funding and even began to expand that a bit. And so we were doing this investment in the future we had, we're funding the next generation of researchers knowing that it's going to take those researchers a decade, two decades, three decades for them to take what they're doing today and for a treatment to be delivered. So what are we doing for the here and now what are we doing for the families that are going through this and this is what we want it up with experiences to be is an opportunity for us to engage with this community, the incredible incredible people that we have the honor to work with and to help facilitate these opportunities for you They're, they're unbelievably appreciative. And I think, you know, I think back to, you know, my time, when I was sick, you know, one of the best days of my life was being able to get back and just see my teammates and be around them. You know, and we weren't doing anything we, you know, we weren't even at practice, it was just like being there in the locker room with them together. And I think allowing these families the opportunity to go and do something that is so. So engaging and so fulfilling. You know, I think it really kind of fills them up, it provides them that hope. And shows them that there's, there's people out there that are working to to make their lives better. And I really believe that that's what the athletes that we work with are doing, the researchers that we work with are doing. And I know the staff that we have here and uplifting athletes is incredibly dedicated. And you're just driven by the mission that we have as an organization. **Michael Hingson ** 40:56 What exactly is the health equity initiative. **Rob Long ** 40:58 So for us, health equity has become something that we believe regardless, if you're in the rare disease community, we still want you to have the opportunity to have access to researchers and individuals that look like you. I think we we've come to learn how important diversity is in every facet of our life and medical research and medical care is no different. There have been studies out there that people adhere to treatment protocols. Better when they see a a doctor that looks like them. Research done in a more diverse lab can is as law has less biases implicated in it than traditional research. And so for us as an organization, we really wanted to not just have one thing that we did that is about health equity, it's really woven into the fabric of our organization. And so through the Young Investigator draft, you know, we ensure that we have one at least one researcher from an underrepresented background as defined by the NIH, included in every draft class, and that's been implemented over the last three years. For our research or travel program, we provide and reserve a portion of those stipends. For researchers from underrepresented backgrounds, there's so much that we're trying to kind of build out, especially when we're trying to engage with the next generation of researchers provide them the opportunities to pursue research in the rare disease community, through Young Investigator draft and just regardless of where you come from, or what you look like, we want you to feel welcomed and know that there's opportunities in the rare disease community. And so a big piece of what we're trying to do is meet researchers where they are doing speaking engagements all across the country. at colleges and universities that graduate, the highest percentage of researchers from underrepresented backgrounds are going to HBCUs and HSI guys that were able to connect and meet with these researchers where they are because ultimately, the rare disease community is, is as diverse as the general population. We have people from all walks of life, socio economic statuses, races, genders, and I think the community around them should should reflect that. And I think that's just something about, you know, who we want to be and and I believe in leading by example. And so we try to put this stuff these policies in place and and follow them and, and know that over time, you know, the good will come out of it. **Michael Hingson ** 43:52 Not that I have a question that comes up in my brain is, clearly you are an advocate and clearly uplifting athletes is advocating and a lot of different ways. Have you tried to do anything in the world of Washington to advocate and deal with legislation for more funding? Or is for creating more awareness for rare diseases and so on? **Rob Long ** 44:18 Yeah, so there are some great organizations that currently exist in the rare disease space that do a lot of policy work in Washington. So for us, we're trying to fill our, our niche, our kind of space in this, I believe, and part of my bigger vision for the organization of uplifting athletes is to get to a point where we can play a role both in policy at the state and national level. And so I kind of view your what we're doing as an organization as kind of baby steps kind of one step at a time and building that solid foundation. And it first started with kind of getting our own house in order or infrastructure in order and then you establishing the draft. And then once we've established the draft, we built some relationships. Now we can establish and build out up with experiences. And once that's been established, you know, what is next was the next opportunity for us. And I believe that as we grow, we have a growing number of colleges and universities that we work with, we have a growing number of professional sports teams that we work with, we're starting to have this reach that touches most of the continental United States. And I think that's a powerful mechanism by which we can leverage the relationships and the education that we've been able to provide to then take that next step into state and federal level advocacy. And I think, you know, there's, like I said, there's so many great organizations, like the everylife Foundation, and the National Organization for Rare disorder, rare disorders that do a lot currently on policy. And I think it's being able to amplify what what is already being done was already being said, opportunities to advocate for things like more funding for the NIH, newborn screening and genetic test, access to genetic testing, these are the things that really help us understand and and inform our decisions as we move forward as a community. And so those are the things that we're really want to get to. But I kind of have these two things that I believe have guided us to this point. And I always ask myself these these two questions. Before we really do anything, whether it's a new initiative or your whatever program. The first is, can we put everybody in a position to be successful? It is incredibly important to me that regardless of who you are, whether you're an employee, whether you're a family, part of our program, whether you're an athlete, whether you're a donor, can we fulfill our and of what we're asking? And if we can do that. Good. And then the second piece is, is everybody having an are we putting people in a position to have a quality experience with our organization, and as you're the leader of this organization, I believe it is my top my my responsibility to ensure that that is true for employees. It's true for the athletes, it's true for the families. And it's true for the donors and sponsors that support us. And those two questions are the things that can sometimes lead us to be more measured and methodical, and what we do. And there's a lot of potential for what we can do as an organization. But I add every step along the way, I want to ensure that people are having a quality experience, and that we're doing all that we can to hold up our end and ensure that we're putting people in a position to be successful. And that sometimes means that we have to sit on an idea or a plan until we're ready and able to execute it. And I think that's where you are, our growth has been a little bit measured and methodical, but really about focusing on quality and knowing that the community that we serve, often they have challenges when they go to the store, they have challenges when they go to school, they have challenges when they go to work. If they're going to interact with our organization, I do not want it to be a challenge. And so that's why we do what we do and kind of how we do it. And, you know, I've I've received a lot of feedback and criticism of why don't you do this? And why don't you do that? And why why is why are you doing this yet? And it's, it's understood, and I get it. And, you know, I just want to make sure that we're doing things the right way and building that strong foundation so that when whenever we take that next step, we're able to rely on everything that has come before it to make sure that we're successful. Yeah, **Michael Hingson ** 49:24 I hear you. And I know, I've been involved in advocacy for a long time. I'm a member of the largest consumer organization of blind people in the United States, the National Federation of the Blind, and back in the mid 70s. I think 1974 Maybe it was 73. But I think it was 74. The the organization started encouraging people to come at a particular time to Washington and started creating programs to advocate for particular legislation. And one of the things we learned early on is you know, You don't want to be a lobbyist, you don't want to hire a lobbyist. It's all about education, more than anything else, which is what I hear you doing. But it is a major effort to make it happen. On the other hand, there have been a lot, a lot of successes dealing with issues regarding blind people. And there's still some going on, and that have been going on now for a number of years, it's definitely more of a challenge to get some things through Congress these days, just because of the way things are. But still, it's it's possible, but but it has to be the right thing at the right time. So I hear exactly what you're saying, and you're really being very methodical about it, maybe starting at the state level, would be easier, because then you don't have to have such a huge process and undertaking to get something done. But those, again, are things that you clearly I think in listening to you study very well, and decide what to do at what time to make it the most effective thing it can be, which is, which is really good. **Rob Long ** 51:03 Thank you. Yeah, I, I, I'm really excited about the overall direction of the organization. And, you know, I haven't been doing it this long. But I believe we're just kind of scratching the surface of what we'll be able to accomplish in the future. And I believe that if we continue down this path, we continue to ensure that we're taking care of of the small things, we're taking care of ensuring that, you know, people have that quality experience that our employees are being given the tools and resources that they need to do their jobs. Well. You know, I believe that that will, we'll get where we're going in time. And it's just a matter of continuing to to make those right decisions and go down the right path and move things forward. **Michael Hingson ** 52:01 What do you find that athletes successful athletes today are getting out of associating with uplifting athletes and rare diseases. **Rob Long ** 52:13 We have the absolute privilege of working with some of the best people on this earth who also happen to be incredible athletes. I think thinking about the the specially the collegiate athletes that we work with, they have so much going on kind of in their lives, they're they're playing a high level of sport. They're at a high level academic institution. There's the social life that happens at college, and yet we have these these student athletes, and that, you know, that go on to sometimes be professional athletes that have the wherewithal at that age to say, how can I use the platform and the presence in the audience that I have, and make this world better. And for me, all the word trying to do is give them the tools that they need, understanding their limitations, your time limitations, their you know, financial limitations, what is it that you need from us in order to kind of help make this, this cause something that you're going to advocate for, and we have an awesome team here at uplifting athletes, that does a great job with that. And I think from the athletes, I think a lot of them, most of them do this out of the kindness of their heart, they want to give back they see that they can make the world a better place. But at the end of the day, I think what they get out of it is, is tremendous, because they might be somebody who doesn't get to play in the NFL or doesn't get to play professional soccer or whatever the sport is that we're working with. And what they can do is sit down in a job interview and say, Hey, I played football at Penn State. I graduated with a three six GPA. And I raised $50,000 for the rare disease community while I was in college, and that person is somebody that I want to hire and a lot of companies want to hire. And I think it's that that emotional intelligence that it shows and, you know, some of the athletes we work with have a connection to the community and some don't. And I think it's an incredibly inspirational to me to see how they all come about it from their own ways. You know, for me, I've experienced this right. I've been through a rare diagnosis. My family has been through through several and I get it and we have so many student athletes that we work with that they just want to help. They want to find a way to give back and I think that's just shows me there's there's a lot of good people in this world and the humanity and the humility that they have is, is exceptional. **Michael Hingson ** 55:15 Have you had any success at dealing with professional athletes after college? **Rob Long ** 55:19 We have. We've had a few that we've worked with that have been absolutely incredible. Two, two that I'll share with you is one. One is somebody who has literally came through our program. He was a leader of our Illinois chapter of uplifting athletes, and played on the offensive line at the University of Illinois had a great career there, ended up being drafted by the Kansas City Chiefs and won a Super Bowl his first year. His name is Nikki, Nick allegretti. And Nikki has been somebody that has just been incredibly loyal to us as an organization. He has done a tremendous amount in the Kansas City community for the families there that have been impacted by a rare diagnosis. He's hosted families at private tours of Arrowhead Stadium. He's come to Kansas City Royals games with us where we've been hosting families and doing meet and greets. He's hold holds camps at his high school. That benefit of both being athletes and for him to kind of come through this program as as a young college student, raise money at the college level, then use his platform as an NFL player to welcome in the Rosie's community has been fantastic. And then probably about three years ago, we were connected with a major league baseball player named Michael a tower. Michael, at the time, when we connected with him was a centerfielder for the Kansas City Royals. And we didn't know Michael's kind of whole story. But Michael was the sibling of somebody who lost their life to a rare diagnosis. Michael's sister died at the age of 21, from a very rare disease. And, you know, he came across our organization and just kind of loved the ease by which he could find a way to support and doing what he was already doing. And so Michael launched a hits campaign and raise money for every hit that he had during the MLB season. And this year, he is doing a home runs for rare diseases campaign and raising and donated himself $75,000 and getting the community to raise money for every home run that he hits this season. And so Michael's been centerfielder. Now with the Minnesota Twins, this is his second year with them. And it's been August, his first year with me he was traded last year from Kansas City, but he's been a fantastic ambassador and advocate. And just being able to use this platform. Every time he hits a homerun the twins talk about it, they do an in stadium announcement they do posts on social media. And I think it's it's that platform of sports where we're able to reach people that are in the rare disease community and be able to educate them and make them aware about the things that are happening, which is really special. **Michael Hingson ** 58:19 Yeah. No, no doubt about that. What? What kind of results can you point to that uplifting athletes has really brought through the years. **Rob Long ** 58:32 So I think for us the the the challenge with funding, the research that we fund is that it's very early stage. The amazing thing is that we have already had three researchers receive supplemental funding from the NIH. So this means that they've been taking those seed grants that we've provided, and being able to turn that into a larger sum of money to continue that research to move that research forward. So that for one is something that's really exciting. We've had over 800 people come through our equity experiences program since that was launched. Another thing that's just been incredible and providing hope and opportunity for families that that would not have them. And that's something that we're going to continue to do and continue to grow and invest. The one other story that I'll share with you on the research side, talking about impact. This year, I was preparing for our young investigator draft. And I previously mentioned that the chemotherapy that I took was the first ever chemotherapy approved to penetrate the blood brain barrier. It is still today the first line treatment for somebody diagnosed with a glioblastoma. I got curious about where that that medicine came from and who was essentially the inventor who was responsible for developing this therapy. And what I learned was that there was a gentleman named Dr. Mouth Um, Stevens and Dr. Malcolm Stevens. I looked him up, he is still alive. He's 85 years old. He's still doing research at the University of Nottingham in England. And so I reached out to him, I said, Dr. Stevens, it's a pleasure to meet you. My name is Rob, this is my story. This is the research that we fund and essentially, just wanted to thank you for for your work and, you know, developing the chemotherapy that saved my life. And about 10 days went by and I didn't hear anything and kind of figured that maybe email communication wasn't the best thing for somebody who is 85 years old, but I did eventually get an email back and Dr. Stevens wrote me, wrote me back and he said, Rob, it's so nice to hear from you. You know, I love the program that you've been, you've been running and I want to share with you a little story about how I developed Temodar, which is the chemotherapy and he said, back in the early, late 1970s, early 1980, he was trying to conduct research in in Birmingham. And at the time, in Birmingham, there was kind of like, general chaos, there was over 20% employment, there was strikes, there was riots, there was just kind of unrest in the streets. But all the while there was this, this Dr. Malcolm Stevens who was trying to do research, and he received a small seed grant from a nonprofit in England. And with that seed grant, he hired a research assistant. And him and his research assistant, whose name was also Rob first synthesized temozolomide in April of 1980. It took 27 years for temozolomide or Temodar to be FDA approved, but it was FDA approved in 2007. And 36 months later, I was diagnosed. And so it is that very research that was invested in in the 1980s. That is the reason that I'm here today. And so we've now funded 44 different researchers through our program, and my hope is that decades from now, each of them will have the opportunity to meet people that that they've impacted their lives with the work that they've done. **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:22 Now, as for you, have you played any more football at all? **Rob Long ** 1:02:27 No, I **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:30 was not going to do that. **Rob Long ** 1:02:32 I was I was done with that. I've moved on to other activities. I played hockey my whole life. But have recently well, for a while. I really love playing golf. So that **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:48 was gonna bring that up and ask him. **Rob Long ** 1:02:51 I told my wife, I needed some competitive outlet. So I've been doing golf, which I absolutely love. So I have not lost the competitive side of myself just trying to find different outlets for it. And **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:05 yeah, you just mentioned So you've now gotten yourself married, how long you've been married? **Rob Long ** 1:03:11 It is four years now. Well, not quite four and a half years. We my wife and I got married in May of 2019. And I aiming incredibly lucky, I often believe that I am the luckiest person in the world. You know, not only for what I've been through, but for the people that I have in my life and my wife is absolutely at the top of that list. **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:35 That is cool. And then you have two dogs and you're going to train them to go chase golf balls or what I do. **Rob Long ** 1:03:44 I don't know that training, training them to get golf balls, I might be a lost cause I just need to work on them not ruining the house first. There. Your first dog is a an Irish doodle. So he's an Irish setter. A standard poodle he was a COVID dog that we got at the beginning of the pandemic because my wife insisted that we had nothing else to do so my lava dog might as well have a dog. And then little over a year ago, we my wife was scouring the SPCA website and came across a rescue dog that was also an Irish doodle. And so we got our second dog his name's rocket and he's got half the size of Winston but has has firmly cemented himself as the alpha dog in the family. And so the two of them get along great and yeah, they're there. They're awesome. Yeah, **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:47 having animals is so much fun. We have a well I have my wife passed away last year we were married for two years and she she finally just the body wasn't keeping up with the spirit but I still have our are a cat that we rescued eight and a half years ago. And then also I have a guide dog Alamos. So it's me and the two critters and they keep me in line. And as I tell people, if I misbehave I'm sure I'm going to hear about it from Karen, somewhere along the line. Works out, **Rob Long ** 1:05:16 I'm sorry for your loss. But I'm glad that you have some unbelievable memories to hold on to. And the two creditors there to keep the company **Michael Hingson ** 1:05:27 40 years of marriages and memories is always a good thing. So I can't complain a bit. No regrets at all. But I'm really glad to hear your story. And I'm glad we had the chance to do this. I really appreciate your time. If people want to reach out to you and learn more about uplifting athletes and so on, how do they do that. **Rob Long ** 1:05:46 So they can find us at upliftingathletes.org. And across most social media platforms just by searching up within athletes. Personally, if you want to reach out to me, my social handles are almost all at rob R O B long, four, seven. So whether that's on Instagram or Twitter, or Gmail, wherever you need to get to me, you can and it'd be a pleasure to connect. But yeah, thank you so much for having me. I had the opportunity to listen to some of your previous shows and your your story is nothing short of amazing. And so I appreciate you taking your everything you've been through and turning it into a positive and, and talking to people like myself. So thank you for all that you. **Michael Hingson ** 1:06:41 If any thing comes up any way I can help, don't hesitate to reach out, you know how to get a hold of me and would love to be supportive in any way that I can. Awesome. Thank **Rob Long ** 1:06:52 you so much, Mike. Well, this **Michael Hingson ** 1:06:53 has been fun. And I hope all of you have enjoyed this and that you've learned some things please reach out to Rob, I'm sure that he would be glad to talk with you. Of course, I want to hear what you have to say. So I would really appreciate it. If you could reach out to me, let me know your thoughts, your comments or observations. You can reach me at Michaelhi at accessiBe  A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to www dot Michael hingson H i n g s o n.com/podcast. And wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. And I certainly asked you to please do all you can to support uplisting athletes. We all really appreciate it and value what Rob and the people are doing and we want to all help any way we can. So one last time. Rob, thank you very much. This has been a real joy to have you on. **Rob Long ** 1:07:46 Thanks so much for having me. **Michael Hingson ** 1:07:51 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit  www.accessibe.com. AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again

This week, Drewby and Yergy head to Victorville, California, to discuss the case of Samiah Downing. Samiah was a beautiful little girl born to Ronald Greer Jr and Monicka Downing on Valentine's Day of 2008. The couple later separated. But when Samiah went to live with her father and his new girlfriend, Bianca Stanch, the happy home that they portrayed on social media became a nightmare for little Samiah. Support Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Join Our Facebook Group: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast Discord: https://discord.gg/kCCzjZM #themiserymachine #podcast #truecrime Source Material: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-56-samiah-downing-part-1/id1499010711?i=1000515152477 https://www.spreaker.com/user/sufferthelittlechildrenpod/episode-57-samiah-downing-part-2 https://www.vvdailypress.com/story/news/2013/01/05/family-members-remember-their-little/37143132007/ https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/california-couple-sentenced-32-years-2012-torture-death-mans-4-year-old-daughter/B4FGXA24PFEJJDWPVAYKA6KVCM/ https://www.sbsun.com/2013/01/04/grandfather-remembers-4-year-old-adelanto-girl-samiah-allegedly-killed-by-father/ https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/samiah-downing-update-arrest/1945218/ https://sbcountyda.org/2021/03/13/bianca-stanch-and-ronald-greer-found-guilty-of-torture-and-murder-of-4-year-old-child-in-victorville/ https://people.com/crime/calif-couple-sentenced-32-years-prison-torturing-toddler-death/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O0ZoqALu3k https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156101891805553 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCuCR8K1xJ0 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/113178582/samiah-christine-cornell-downing/photo#view-photo=83516737 https://bigthink.com/health/gruesome-death-macabre-science-dehydration/#:~:text=With%20less%20and%20less%20water,and%20liver%20begin%20to%20fail. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-05-25/san-bernardino-county-children-family-services-federal-lawsuit-caseworkers-grand-jury https://www.facebook.com/SamiahChristinaCornellDowningMemorial/ https://www.facebook.com/christina.cornell.50 https://www.facebook.com/Monielov3 https://www.facebook.com/monicka.james.54

In this podcast episode, Heather discusses her journey from dreaming of opening an art studio in her younger years to eventually realizing her goal through her restaurant. She talks about her passion for teaching and creating spaces for others to be creative. Heather shares how her restaurant evolved over the years, from featuring public art spaces for muralists to hosting live music and creating a do-it-yourself art station. She also touches on her love for travel and the feeling of freedom it brings her. The conversation delves into the power of the mind, the impact of relationships, and the joy of spontaneous adventures. Heather's enthusiasm for life and creativity shines through as she shares her story and insights.   “Anything could happen, like, the world is out there, and I'm about to experience whatever is supposed to come my way.” – Heather    How Heather transitioned into owning a restaurant called Local Farm to Table in Victorville, California. Heather shares how she finds joy in travel and the excitement of exploring new places. A conversation that touches on how thoughts and beliefs can impact health and well-being. How hypnotherapy is used as a tool for exploring the unconscious and understanding past experiences.     Connect with me:   Email: annamarie@happywholeyou.com / info@HappyWholeYou.com Website: www.happywholeyou.com / https://linktr.ee/happywholeyou Instagram: @happywholeyou Facebook: Happy Whole You LinkedIn: Anna Marie Frank Venmo: @happywholeyou

Like many people we have heard on Unstoppable Mindset, Tessa Lynne Alburn had some challenges growing up. She frankly discusses them especially issues she had with her parents who, as she describes it, did not really understand how to give her the kind of love she wanted and needed. This is no criticism as she points out, but simply the way things were. She also talks about a near-drowning experience and how that affected her and her attitude for years.   With all her challenges she did finish high school and then went to college.   Tessa loves many sporting activities and, for a time, she was a musician. She learned to play the flute and to sing. She says she still uses singing today sometimes with clients.   Today Tessa lives in Steamboat Springs Colorado where she has a successful coaching business helping women to learn and gain confidence. She helps them to learn to discover themselves and to become better in the world. She will tell us some stories of how she has helped women to learn how to be better and more progressive leaders, especially in a world that doesn't always appreciate what white bright intelligent women can and do bring to the table.     About the Guest:   Tessa Lynne Alburn is a Feminine Energy Coach and Soul Connection Mentor for Women seeking to having their voice, living a lifestyle of freedom and joy, and reconnecting with the Divine.   Tessa's mission is to help women bring themselves and their ideas and their voice into the world and becoming personally powerful as a co-creator.   With a background in SCUBA instruction, energy healing and decades of experience leading live and virtual events, Tessa works with you to create the life you truly want as you maintain your important relationships, while also saying “yes” to your soul.   Tessa is intuitive, compassionate and unexpected. Her favorite past-times include hiking, solo SCUBA diving, and star-gazing. Her passions for life and learning, her interest in culture and adventures have taken her both abroad and to 38 US States.   Her top 4 values are beauty, variety, spirituality and compassion.     Ways to connect with Tessa:   Say YES to Your Soul podcast: https://www.sayyestoyoursoulpodcast.com/   https://www.facebook.com/TessaAlburn @tessaalburn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessaalburn   https://www.instagram.com/realizedsoulwithtessa/ and @realizedsoulwithtessa      Tessa's Free Gift If you want to be happier and more courageous in life, get your free info sheet here and Say Yes to Your Soul! http://www.tessafreegift.com/     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well welcome everyone to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I'm your host, Mike Hingson. And today we have Tessa Lynne Alburn. Tessa for short. And we're really glad to hear Tessa is in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, we are a little jealous. Not too because I don't mind being in Victorville, although it's still not on the water or anything like that, like, like other places get to be. But But nevertheless, we cope with what we have. So Tessa really glad that you're here on unstoppable mindset with us today.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 01:53 I'm really glad to be here, Michael. Thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 01:57 Well, thanks for for having us, in your home and with you. And I'm going to have to learn all about this idea that you describe yourself as a feminine energy coach and other things we'll get to that. But why don't you start by telling us a little bit about the earlier Tessa? And where, where you came from what you did, and all your deep, dark secrets that you think we ought to know. And we won't tell   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 02:19 us? Yes, I might have to filter a few. But where's the   Michael Hingson ** 02:23 fun in that? Typically,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 02:24 the early days, I would say, you know, I was most people wouldn't guess this knowing me now. But I was very shy and introverted. And I was in a dysfunctional home, where my dad chose to work night shifts and things like that, or in other states whenever possible. So he was, you know, just unavailable or had escaped us in some way. And my mother had some emotional issues, and she would be what I would call a rageaholic. From time to time, she was she had a number of borderline attributes. And so, growing up, I was very scared. And doing that thing that they call walking on eggshells, right, like, when is the volcano going to explode? That sort of thing will get ready to run, you know, you just didn't quite know what was going to happen. That's okay. Yeah, I did okay, in school, because I was able to focus all my attention there, and, and then keep myself safe by being the smartest I could be and as perfect as I could be and be a good girl. So that's how I coped with it.   Michael Hingson ** 03:32 Did you have siblings?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 03:34 I had one younger sibling, three years younger than I was. And at first, it started out great, you know, I was sort of like helping to take care of her and nurturing her. And then pretty soon it became a competitive thing. And so we had a rough patch from like, you know, one, two, when I was almost 20 years old. And she, she had gone overseas with a rotary exchange program. And when she came back, it was like talking with a different person entirely. It was so great. Yeah. Because she'd been out of the household, number one and live with a really loving family. And she'd been exposed to an entirely different culture. She lived in Sweden for a year. And so she gathered this worldly sense about her. And when she came back, she was like, Oh, I kind of get you now. You know, like, we can be compatible. And so we kissed and made up.   Michael Hingson ** 04:38 Wow. So you guys get along? Well, still.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 04:42 We do. She's a dear person, and we live many miles away from one another. But she has two amazing kids and a wonderful husband and and she's got his whole family over there. And so everybody's very supportive and loving. Where do they live? They're in Maryland.   Michael Hingson ** 05:01 That's a little. That's eastern Colorado,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 05:03 right? Not Colorado. Exactly. East of Colorado.   Michael Hingson ** 05:09 Maryland is just eastern Colorado, just like California is western Colorado. Right?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 05:14 Exactly. He's on a little place called the Magath the river. So she gets to be near water. And it's quite lovely over there.   Michael Hingson ** 05:23 So do you have husband children or any of those kinds of things?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 05:26 I do not. I am. happily single.   Michael Hingson ** 05:32 Someone has to keep the trend, right.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 05:34 Yes. Um, although I do entertain the idea of relationship   Michael Hingson ** 05:37 someday. Yeah, we'll see how that goes. That's right.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 05:41 I just have so many things on my plate. Like in terms of why I'm here, I feel like, you know, my sole purpose. And my sole mission is actually the number one thing in my life. So I'm happy about that.   Michael Hingson ** 05:53 My wife and I got married in our early 30s. And we just hadn't found the right persons for each other. And we didn't know each other. We met in January of 1982. And we were married in November of 1982. But we immediately hit it off. And we knew that we found soulmates and the right the right people. And so it clearly was sort of the right choice, because we live together until she passed away last November. So we were married for two years. And, you know, but you're right. It's got to be the right person. And you've got to, you got to know that and you'll know it when it happens if it happens.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 06:29 Exactly. And I feel like you know, spirit will definitely knock me on the shoulders tapped me on the shoulders. If If and when that person comes in, right.   Michael Hingson ** 06:40 Yeah. So, so you Where are you from originally?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 06:46 Originally? I am from the state of Florida. Okay, fine state.   Michael Hingson ** 06:52 Yeah. The humidity state?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 06:55 Yes, that's a little more accurate, isn't it?   Michael Hingson ** 06:59 I'm a fan of the old folk group, the Kingston Trio and they have a song called the Everglades and one of the lines is if the Gators don't get you than the Skeeters will.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 07:08 Oh, my goodness, that's hysterical. I don't remember that song. But I do remember the Kingston Trio. And yes, it's it is true. The gators or maybe the snakes?   Michael Hingson ** 07:19 Well, there's after the snakes as well. Yeah, the Gators snakes and Skeeters. They're all there. That's That's true. So did you go to school and stay in Florida? Or how long were you guys there?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 07:32 I did not. We, my dad worked for McDonnell Douglas. And so we had this lifestyle of moving around to different missile sites and things and always coming back for a number of years coming back to the Cape Canaveral area. And so my last year of school, I, I went to junior high and Florida and Mississippi, came back to Florida, went to high school for a year then went up to New York state for a year and then to Pennsylvania for a year so that my high school and junior high was just a real journey in adaptability.   Michael Hingson ** 08:09 What was that? Like?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 08:10 It was intense. Yeah. Now, I think one of the fun things that I remember is when I was younger, in Florida, I had a best friend that was from Georgia. So I had a real southern drawl, just kind of like her. And when I moved up to New York State, I was definitely kind of a standout person and people didn't know what to think of me. Maybe they thought I was dumb at first, but they figured out I wasn't and I learned to drop that accent most of the time. You don't hear it from me, but it I do think of that kind of fondly. Because some of my my teachers were like, oh, that's special. Let's hear that y'all. Y'all   Michael Hingson ** 08:49 know. All y'all and yes.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 08:53 So the moving moving was a kind of an intensity in our family.   Michael Hingson ** 08:57 That must have been fun. Do you have any analysis of how that affected you? Yes. made you a gypsy?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 09:12 Yes. Well, now I'm a nomadic Gypsy, digital nomad, a bohemian Gypsy, whatever you want to call it. And at first I was resisting that urge to wander and be in different places. And then I realized I had the skills so along with the heartache of being torn away from friends with no time to have closure or transition constantly, and my youth suddenly coming home and be like, pack up your room. We're moving next week. And you know, coming home from like summer camp, and it's just shocking, right? Especially at that age where we're one is developing the Um, hormones for boys and like relationships with older boys in the high school and that sort of thing. And I was just kind of getting a first year of popularity and then boom are gone again. And then I'm nobody. So it was like popular no one or no one too popular or now I gotta work my way back up. And then I've got to hang out with cool kids and I got to hang out in the girls room and smoke cigarettes to fit in or skip school and play hooky and be bad, you know. So there were a lot of influences that happened as a result of moving. And I think the one thing that it did help with at home was kept me kind of out of my mom's hair. So there was, I was able to feel a little more powerful when I started to rebel. But there was definitely a big rebellion that happened. When it was totally necessary for me to start to feel safe. And like I had any kind of purchase in this life.   Michael Hingson ** 10:57 Did you have any real major trauma traumatic kinds of things that happened to you as a child as so many, many kids do?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 11:04 Yes, yes. And so many do. And I think most of the time, we don't know that about the people all around us. And sometimes it's hard to hear those things. But yes, I had, I had a number of things, but I'll say the the main one, one of the big ones that I didn't realize how it was impacting me too much later in life was a near drowning event. And that was in Florida. And as you might well imagine, you know, it was very swampy, dark water grassy with alligators and and snapping turtles and you know, creepy, creepy, weird fish called Mud puppies, and things you just don't want to come in contact with. And I was sweeping the dock off. We used to go visit friends of ours who had this little cabin out in this underdeveloped area off of little a Kara's, it's probably super developed now, but back then it wasn't. And you took your boat and you went along the canals to go to the little fishing tackle store and get your milk. And that was it, you brought everything else with you. And there were just fields and fields of tall grasses, probably filled with all kinds of critters. And and the dock was just kind of basic, it didn't have a railing or anything. We used to just have the little skiff and we would go out fly fishing and things like that. And I was about nine years old then. And we went there in wintertime. So I had on all these sweaters this big, I'll never forget that I had this one huge hand knitted sweater that was probably a half inch thick. But just because of all the yarn that was used to make it, I was wearing that and sweeping off the dock. And I got vertigo, as I didn't realize at the time that I had a vertigo problem. And so I was there I was sweeping. And then I just my head just spun and spun. And I just tipped over and fell. And I was a good swimmer. So nobody had ever thought of, well, we have to keep the kids and life jackets or anything like that, because we were all really comfortable in the water. But when I hit the water, it was very, very cold. And I just dissociated, I'm pretty sure that would be a psychological term that happened. Where I, I had a consciousness that was like, Oh, I have to get out of here. But I was so cold, I could barely it felt like I could barely move. And then all the weight of the winter clothing on me was just dragging me down. And it was dragging me down to the bottom of the canal. And they're they're built deep. You know, they're like, I don't know, 12 to 15 feet deep, those canals. That's a lot for a little kid. And the only thing that kept me coming up that I felt like was really driving me on was the terror of the icky things down there.   Michael Hingson ** 14:16 I don't want to get to the bottom of that canal.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 14:18 Exactly like the month no. And I would kind of I felt like I was pushing up. I don't know if I really reached the bottom and I was not fully conscious. But I felt like I was just struggling to get to the top get to the top and then I get this little gasp of air and then I'd sink more and then I'd do the same thing over and over. And I could feel the every now and then I could feel the underneath of the top of the dock. There was nothing to hold on to Yeah. And I just kept going under fortunately, oh fortunately an angel a couple of angels were there. And one of them was my little play friend who was couple years younger than me in He saw that I was in the water and he plan to shock. And so it was like, ah you know Harry's My name is Terry at the time Terry's in the water, Terry Phelan Terry fell, and he's like whispering it. But fortunately, his dad was up on a ladder, about 30 feet away. And he finally got mad. And he's like, he was old salt, Donald. And he saw me splashing, I guess, and he just leapt off that ladder, and came down and yanked me out. And yeah, I was safe. Yeah. Although extremely stunned for at least 24 hours.   Michael Hingson ** 15:44 Yeah. What do you think you learn from that, um, as you as you developed? If you were to put a positive thing out, I mean, it was certainly traumatic. And there's, we could talk about that a lot, I'm sure. But what what positive? Did you learn from that? Do you think?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 16:02 Well, couple things. I mean, a couple of practical thing is, we all need love and comfort. And one of the things I didn't get at the time was that and so later in my life, I realized I was having kind of like this dread, that the creepy things were gonna get me and that I was gonna suffocate. And I needed to heal that. So I learned that one can heal that. And I think that's been really powerful for me, because growing up the way that I did, I had felt like a victim most of the time. But when I realized I could do something about it, I can actually heal the psychological scars, and take action and get, even if it was, however many years 3030 plus years later, I could still get the healing that I needed. And resolve that in myself, so that the psychological impact didn't have to keep moving forward with me. From then on.   Michael Hingson ** 17:09 How did she figure that out?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 17:11 Well, the hard way. Because I kind of hit rock bottom, what happened was I I went traveling, and I went to Costa Rica, and I was without enough friends. For too long when I was there. And I remember taking, I was asked to kind of look after this person's hostel while they went on vacation. And when they were gone, I was just so sad. And I felt like I was gonna die. And I was like, What is going on ma'am? And beautiful Costa Rica. You know, there's snorkeling here. It's like everything I wanted for this idea of this trip that I had taken. And then suddenly, I was depressed. And then I had this connection. In my mind, I just kind of saw this connection, that somehow the fear of death when I was underwater, was connected to my thought that I was gonna die or that I needed to die. And I was like, That is no good. Right?   Michael Hingson ** 18:19 And you hadn't let go?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 18:22 I did. Yeah. I hadn't been able to resolve the psychological trauma and the emotional trauma or the physical. And so I went about healing and a variety of ways. And I'll tell you one of the ones that cinched it for me, I did a number of things, and they were all good, and they all helped. But the thing that finally cleared it was something called ar e t, rapid eye therapy. And it's kind of like EMDR. So there's a stimulus to your eyes, as you recall certain parts of the story. And then basically you retell the story to yourself in a way that's empowering, that gives another meaning to the event. And the power for men comes in and kind of clears your cells and clears your memory and gives you a second memory. And it's a really can be a beautiful process. So I'm really, really grateful to all the practitioners who've helped me over the years. And that was a big, big turning point for me. And it also gave me the ability to hold that space for others when they're going through something really deep and dark.   Michael Hingson ** 19:40 I gather you didn't get a lot of support from your your parents after you fell in the water. Correct? Yeah, they saw unfortunate.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 19:51 Yes. It was unfortunate but you know, they really did do the best that they could. It just wasn't when I need it,   Michael Hingson ** 20:00 yeah, yeah. Well, and, and it's great that you are able to, to recognize that now. And it sounds like you're not angry at them, because they were who they were. And there's nothing we can do about other people like that. I mean, like that, not people like that, but rather people who have those characteristics and traits or any characteristics and traits, we all make our own choices.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 20:29 Absolutely. Part of me wants to laugh when you say like you never, you know, I don't get mad at them. Right. Because occasionally I do still, but not.   Michael Hingson ** 20:38 But but not for that. But yeah. But you're able to deal with things and move on. I understand Absolutely.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 20:44 Right, like accepting them that would, given who they were in the lives they had. And of course, I learned more and more about them as I grew up. I came to understand that they literally just didn't have the capacity wasn't that they didn't want to help me. Yeah. Yeah. They just short circuited. They didn't know how to do that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they yelled at me get in bed that was never talked about it again. And dry   Michael Hingson ** 21:11 off. Exactly. Are dry up. But anyway, either way. Well, so did you. Yeah. Well, anyway. So did you go off to college after high school?   21:24 I did   Michael Hingson ** 21:25 want to go do that.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 21:27 I was able to go to a music university in the state of Pennsylvania, where I studied flute and voice and I was a big fish in a little pond.   Michael Hingson ** 21:39 Wow, there you go. I've read. Have you ever read the book. It's called David and Goliath. It's written by the gentleman who wrote the tipping point. Gladstone, Gladstone. And one of the things he talks about in there are people who make the wrong choices of going to college. They think it's important to go to Harvard and all that. And when they get there to discover their or any of the big schools, they discovered their very little fish in a very huge pond. Whereas if they would go to other schools, and then he gave some examples of people who did that, although it wasn't necessarily their intent, they ended up being pretty big fish and much littler ponds and got a much better education, and college experience. As a result.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 22:29 I have no doubt that that's true for many, many people. Of course, there's going to be the the stars, the people who rise to the surface right away and get the attention and all the support that they need in this big schools. But in a smaller school, you can carve your way through like a little more stylized for yourself, or customize or get the attention that you need in certain areas. And I was able to do that in certain ways. I had the complete attention of my flute teacher who really taught me taught me amazing things about playing the flute. And I had the opportunity to solo a lot in all the ensembles and choirs and all all of that. So that gave me a lot of grounding and actual performance and musicianship,   Michael Hingson ** 23:19 do you still play the flute?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 23:21 Only on occasion, but I do still sing now. Yes, my style has now shifted to kind of a sound healing style. So I do use it sometimes with clients. And what I would call it I don't know if you're familiar with this. Sometimes I receive kind of like a channeling of light language. And so the words don't necessarily make any sense. But the tones and the sounds that come through are very healing for the people that they come through for.   Michael Hingson ** 23:55 I occasionally do karaoke. That's as close as I go. There   Michael Hingson ** 23:58 you go. That's pretty healing. I do a mean Mack the Knife. What can I say? The show? Yeah. And a few others like that. But Threepenny Opera. Wonderful.   Michael Hingson ** 24:13 There you go, but it's fun, you know, and then it's intended to be fun. I've also heard at a few karaoke places, people who really do need to keep their day jobs, but that's okay.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 24:26 I would tell you, I'm terrible at karaoke. I don't know what happens. I start to freeze up. It's so strange. I guess I'm so used to being a performer. Yeah, it's hard for me to just like, do something spontaneous and have to be relying on the words and the weird sound that's coming through the speakers at a bar, you know, with funny echoes and all of that, but that's cool that you do what's best for   Michael Hingson ** 24:51 me for me. I need to know the words in advance. So I press the screen so I did pretty well. With it, it's fun.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 25:02 So how do you so do you pick your songs ahead of time and then tell the DJ what you want?   Michael Hingson ** 25:06 Yeah, they usually give people a choice of, or at least the places I've been to, I can choose what I want to sing. So I'll tell them in advance, which works out well. Otherwise, I what I have never tried is standing up with a song that I don't really know. And having somebody whispering the words to me, and that might work. But we had to work out we'd have to really work out the timing of doing it. So it's an experiment worth trying some time.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 25:33 Yes, that could be interesting. I could sort of see you with an earpiece, right. And they're like, like, you're like a covert spy. Yeah. And they're whispering in your ear saying, This singing like this?   Michael Hingson ** 25:45 Or at least telling me the words, you know? Yes. And I do I do a good version of 16 tons by Tennessee, Ernie Ford. But the problem with me doing 16 tons is I cheat. I've also heard there's a duo Homer and Jethro, who used to really do play offs on Country and Western stuff. And they, they were they, they did parodies of everything. So their course to 16 tons goes, you load 16 tons. How do you feel too tired to work or too scared to steal St. Peter, don't you call on me today? Because I'm a dick in the other way. So I always have to put that in there somewhere. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. You know, there's no sense. Not having fun with it.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 26:31 Exactly. I find is, is an essential part of life. Like, if we're not going to have fun. What's the point?   Michael Hingson ** 26:39 Exactly. So what did you do after college? After   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 26:44 college?   Michael Hingson ** 26:45 I must have done something. Oh, yes,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 26:47 of course. My first wonder place was to go to New York City.   Michael Hingson ** 26:53 Ah, and what year was that? That would have been 1980. Okay, so you were well, prior to the World Trade Center not being there. So yeah, the skyline? Did you see King Kong up on the building or any of those things?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 27:07 Oh, oh, gosh, the days it was, you know, the full throttle, Big Apple just everything booming. And it was pre aids, also. Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, that was starting to happen. But no, the word wasn't out yet. And I was in the city when that hit. Note became a thing. And, of course, there were a lot of people in my circle, a lot of men who were, you know, very affected by that stare and work through it in some way. And then there was kind of a new age awakening in the city. And I was so grateful. I got to go to Lincoln Center when Eric and Olga Butterworth were there. And what a speaker he is, and then she led the guided meditations. Wow. And it was just phenomenal. You would just sit in your chair and be transported, you know, suddenly, all the whole rooms was like, filled with light I fought. And you know, I'm transported to some wonderful loving place, I had a huge impact on me, and my spiritual life. And then there was a singer. His name was Steven something. I'm gonna forget what his last name was. And he was a tenor. And he was amazing. And so he would say, you know, every, every week, he would do some solo that would just knock your socks off.   Michael Hingson ** 28:32 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing like New York. And I think that is still true. Although there's obviously been a lot of change, but there's nothing like New York. Nothing like it. That's true. We enjoyed going to Broadway, especially musicals. And of course, nothing like seeing a musical on Broadway. One of your favorites. Well, Phantom of the Opera was clearly one of the ones that we love. We my wife and I went to see it three times. Chicago was another one. I saw The Music Man, I think a couple times. That's one of my favorites of all times movie or musical. That's fabulous. Yeah, we actually saw Rebecca lucar as Marian in well, it was before we moved down here. So is it like 2000 or maybe early 2001. And I learned that she died from ALS in 2020. And I had seen her perform the year before just online somewhere. But that was pretty sad. Probably though one of my favorite all times is we got to see Matthew Broderick and Nathan Lane and the producers.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 29:44 Oh, no kidding. Oh, that would have been fun.   Michael Hingson ** 29:47 It was better than the movie even but, but it was a lot of fun. Yeah, as I said, there's nothing like New York.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 29:55 Nothing at all. And there's also nothing like your mom embarrassing you in the theater either when she asked the star for their signature or when you're stuck on an elevator with them. We got so embarrassed, but   Michael Hingson ** 30:12 I can't give her credit for her though she had the courage to do it. That's okay. Exactly. And did she get the signature? She did. There you go see? So what are you complaining about?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 30:21 Exactly? I just remember like, oh, no, you're not supposed to do that. Because New Yorkers were all uptight, you know? Yeah, cool.   Michael Hingson ** 30:29 We went to see the Lion King and my niece. Well, our Karen's brother and his wife. And our niece, who was three at the time went with us to see the Lion King. And we got in because there was a friend of Gary's Karen's brother, who knew some of the actors and got us tickets. And so we're in there, as it as it started, of course, the music and everything is wonderful. And then the hyenas came in and what they do to make their entrances, they come in from the top of the theater, walking down the aisles, growling as they go by. And one of them got right up to Karen course, Karen sitting there in a wheelchair accessible seat or space in her wheelchair. This hyena comes right up to her and goes, you never saw a woman who is a paraplegic suddenly jump and almost hit the ceiling was amazing. But afterward, we got to go behind the scenes. And Alana, our three year old niece, just had, as Karen describes the eyes as big as saucers, with all the animals and everything during the play. And then we went behind the scenes, and we got to beat Mustapha, and some of the other other people. And Karen even said, they did such a good job on the design that you forget that those are people who are working those puppets,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 31:48 which is magical, then when that happens? Yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 31:52 was. So you went to New York, and you had fun there. And you've you've wandered a bunch, you said, you have a wanderlust spirit. And I have   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 32:00 I left I left New York in the late 80s. And came out west to California and spent 15 years in LA and Santa Monica went up to northern California. And somewhere in between all of that I was also on tour in a band. And yeah, so I went to a bunch of different states and sang in Louisiana, at the no name saloon. And in Hobbs, New Mexico, all kinds of fun places, Missouri, and we had a an Elvis impersonator. And it was, you know, the time of my life, enjoying that, and just really getting to see a lot of different towns meet a lot of different people. And eventually   Michael Hingson ** 32:48 doing Oh, go ahead.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 32:49 Yeah, no, just eventually winding up following more of a soul path than a talent path.   Michael Hingson ** 32:56 Okay? Because I was gonna say you're not doing the band, essentially. Right. So what do you do now?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 33:04 Well, I am a feminine energy mastery coach for women. So I help them learn how to express their voices and their true selves in a feminine way, so that they're heard and understood. So they don't have to over masculine eyes, you know, to be heard or right or be the loudest voice in the room, or the smartest voice in the room, they can just be themselves. So I help them with that. And I do what I would call soul coaching, which is helping helping people to understand more the messages of their soul, and what their gifts are their innate gifts, not necessarily their talents, although a talent could be connected to it. But it's like something that comes from deep within, you know, like, behind their heart. It's like the spark that creates all of them. And so I help might help somebody say, find their purpose, or create greater abundance, but it's always going to be through that lens of the soul and the values, the high values that come with your soul.   Michael Hingson ** 34:17 Tell me if you would some examples of what that means. Some people may be who, whose gifts you help them discover and what kind of gifts you found and so on. I'm fascinated by it, and I absolutely respect what you do. Although, if if I have to say so not trying to be too bigoted women, I find her oftentimes a whole heck of a lot smarter than men. Anyway, my wife was always smarter than me. So you'll you'll always find me   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 34:48 that you are a very smart man for thinking that and saying that especially she   Michael Hingson ** 34:51 was always ahead of me on so many things. And I mean, there were times I was ahead, but it just was the way it was. and I respected that and loved it right from the outset. So it's one of the things that I miss and valued so much when when she was here, there's so many examples of that. But anyway, so what are some examples of gifts and so on that you've helped people discover?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 35:17 Well, people sometimes find themselves like in jobs, where they're like, Oh, I'm good at this thing. But then they start pushing at the edges of the job box. And they find themselves maybe in an uncomfortable position, because they have bigger ideas. They're like, Oh, this could happen with us. And this could happen with that. And usually, those are the kinds of people I work with, because they do have a brilliance beyond what is recognize, typically. And sometimes it causes ruffles. Like, say, for example, I had a client, who was a consultant and was ruffling feathers, because she was brilliant. And there was jealousy, and there's this and there's that. And then there's some people that just they don't know how to handle it. And they're like, We don't, we don't know what to do with all your ideas. So we're just gonna shut you down, right. So that person eventually like, either wears out or gets sick, or just starts to think there's something really wrong with them. And maybe they start, you know, escaping going on a lot of vacations, or drinking too much, or eating bad foods, or whatever it is. And if they come to me, and we work together, what what happens is they discover that they've got a bigger vision for humanity, than what that particular role was allowing them to express. Right, so they might learn that they're a visionary, they might suddenly realize that they're going to start a project, you know, for some fiber, one, three, C, that's going to change the world, you know, create water for villages in Africa, or whatever the idea is. But the problem was that they're just told that you don't fit in and you have to quiet down and etc. But when they really understand that it's coming from a much deeper, truer place, this this propensity, that they have to push against those boundaries. And instead of making themselves wrong, they realize and learn how to connect to the universe's calling to the greater cosmic forces that are actually there to support them, then they become freed up, to be themselves to express themselves to ask for what they need to get to the sport to get the financial support, whatever it is, and they they become empowered.   Michael Hingson ** 37:53 Sometimes, do you help them recognize that maybe rather than just trying to continue to say ideas, because they're very enthusiastic about what they do that strategically, being a little bit more patient may be helpful, or does that enter into it?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 38:09 Well, sometimes Absolutely, yeah. So they usually go through phases, they'll go through a phase first, where they've been super patient, not saying anything, they might not even believe their ideas are that great. And then they're like, wait a second, I see the solutions here. And then they try to speak up, but they don't know who to go to. And they don't understand how the corporation works. So that's where often where patients can pay off. But they also need to know that they're not just like in a waiting room somewhere. Right? Right. Right. Yeah, they need a plan. They need to know Yes, Patience is important. But there are also moves they could be making that would fit that would be acceptable. And to not give up when they're in the waiting room, but to keep going and taking steps toward their dream,   Michael Hingson ** 39:00 maybe being a little bit more strategic about part of the process. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think men and women, I think women probably tend to express emotions more and men think that they shouldn't, which is unfortunate, but I think people in general, so often never learned how to be strategic and what they do.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 39:25 That's true. I think so many of us women in particular, do seem to have a bent towards perfectionism, because that's what got them accepted, right in the family system and then in schools or wherever. And we still see it today. Like if you watch some of these reality shows, you'll see that like a man will do a certain behaviors say a certain thing. A women woman will do the exact same thing and get just like you're a bench or a witch. Yeah. Big bright judgments. And so there's a way that we can present that and communicate, you know, to connect with other people first, rather than just like showing up with all these big ideas, because we have to know are these people ready to hear it?   Michael Hingson ** 40:19 Yeah. And unfortunately, our society still says we're going to be much more ready to hear it from a man than a woman, even though oftentimes, women are going to give the smarter and more in depth idea. And it happens all too often. And it is unfortunate that women are so often shut down.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 40:43 Yes, and they can do something about it. And it's not beating a drum. And it's not making other people wrong. It's finding a better way to communicate, and a better way to connect first, to have your one's ideas heard. And may it may even involve presentational skills or leadership skills, right, that we don't necessarily learn. Nobody taught us. Right. Right, we have been in that position before. And they're doing pretty well, because they're figuring it out as they go. But sometimes we actually need those skills to take us to the next level. So the idea can be heard. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 41:20 And it's a matter of learning how to, to make that process work. And you know, I know that, that there are any number of people with disabilities blind and otherwise who are in the same boat, that we may have very good idea, though, but you're blind, how could you possibly know? And we see it way too often. Because we've got too many people who are just locked into stereotypes, which is so unfortunate.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 41:47 For a flip, then going to the other extreme, oh, they're blind, maybe they can help with this hearing project. Making assumptions, right. I know, I'm sure I've been guilty of something like that in my past, but I think more and more people are making an effort to do something and be more equitable. But yes, I mean, you've you've really been through it.   Michael Hingson ** 42:10 Yeah, it's it's a matter of really keeping it in perspective. And, you know, when something doesn't work out, right, it's important to step back and look at it. What's the problem? What can I do to make it better next time. And so often, we don't take time to analyze what we do right and wrong in the course of any given day. Oh, we don't have time for that. Well, it's always time. It's a matter of priority.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 42:37 I love that. Yes, absolutely. Just taking a few minutes at the end of every day, a few minutes in the morning, right? Yes, yeah, digest, reflect and be responsible for what we did.   Michael Hingson ** 42:53 You know, it gets back to meditation and slowing down and listening to what there is to be offered. We just don't do that nearly as much as we ought to.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 43:03 What kind of meditation Do you like to do, Michael?   Michael Hingson ** 43:07 Well, I've learned Transcendental Meditation. And I do that some, and sometimes I just slow down and stop at the end of the day. And I look inward. And don't try to make any decisions. Don't try to think about anything specific. But as thoughts come up, I'll look at them, especially if it's about what went on during the day. And what can I learn from it? I've learned over the years that one of the worst things that I used to say until literally fairly recently, as I'm my own worst critic, I always listen to speeches when I travel and speak and talk about September 11, or trust and teamwork, or the human animal bond or whatever. And I've been traveling and doing this for almost 22 years now since September 11. I always record my speeches, and I go back and listen to them. And I've said to people, I do it because I'm my own worst critic. And if I can decide something from that, then that's great. What I've learned is wrong thing to say, I'm my own best teacher, because the reality is, I'm the only one that can really teach me. Teachers can offer information, but I need to be the one to teach me and learn it. And so I've learned that the poor positive approach is the right one. I'm my own best teacher. And so I like to look at what goes on in the course of the day. And look at it from the standpoint of a teaching experience. I do agree there's no such thing as failure. It's all about being learning experiences.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 44:38 It absolutely is. And I love that you ask that question. So you're not saying Well, what did I do wrong today? Or what was bad about that? You're saying, Oh, can I learn from this? Yeah, right. That's that's what I would call a quality question.   Michael Hingson ** 44:52 What didn't work right, from my perspective, and did it really not work right or is it me? And if it didn't work, right, what do I do? Next time, I could end up in that same situation, and I think those are fair questions, and we can only really confront it for ourselves.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 45:08 Yes, I think that's great that so you're making me think of sort of like this. Sometimes I have clients do kind of this biofeedback program. No tests away. So it's not scientific at all. It's but it is that personal reflection method, where you're really, you need to know what you're listening for what you're looking for, right, in order to actually give yourself a valuable critique. Yeah, and not being picky, uni perfectionistic, that sort of thing. But actually, like looking at, well, what's really important here? And how might I do this better? Oh, okay, gee, I just got like, three ideas there. That's kind of cool. I'm going to try one out.   Michael Hingson ** 45:55 And it may be that you might not know upfront what you're looking for, but at least you ask the question, What am I looking for? What should I learn from this? And that will come?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 46:04 Yes, it does, doesn't it?   Michael Hingson ** 46:08 It always will come if we take the time to listen. Well, as you've learned and grown, what have you learned about faith?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 46:17 Faith? There's a big question, right?   Michael Hingson ** 46:20 Yes, yes. So,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 46:22 you know, I'm kind of thinking back to that time where I almost drowned. And I think the thing that was so hard about it was this idea that I was just going to die. And it would, that would just be it. And there would be nothing else except terror, somehow there was going to be this terror, terror involved. And I have come to, to learn that there's so much more to life. And there's so much more to us that that was just a child's way to process what was happening. Because my brain wasn't developed enough. And so now, thankfully, my brain is much more developed. And I have the ability to receive information and to know things without necessarily scientific facts. And I know that I know them because I know it. And you're gonna me, right. And I'm an also, I think there was a turning point for me and my consciousness around the idea that the universe is actually my friend. Yeah. And it's a loving kind universe. Right? And if anybody tells you anything different, like, you don't have to choose to believe that just because they do. Yeah. So when we create, right, we just create the world we want to live in. And then we connect in with that energy, because the energy is free, and it's everywhere. It's available. Yes.   Michael Hingson ** 48:02 And if they choose not to believe that the universe is a kind universe, we can't force them to change. All we can do is say things like, and how's your world really going for you? And think about that, and maybe they will, and maybe they won't, but at least you plant the seed and you see where it goes from there.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 48:24 Yes, plant the seed and be a role model.   Michael Hingson ** 48:27 Yes, always be a role model. And I there's nothing wrong with being a role model, as far as I'm concerned.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 48:35 No, and I think the more conscious we are about the role model, the roles that we play, the greater impact we can have. And just, you know, a moment with somebody in an elevator moment, just passing somebody on the sidewalk can change someone's life.   Michael Hingson ** 48:57 What's one thing you'd like people to know who are listening to us? There's a deep quest I,   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 49:03 yes. I'd like them to know that even if you feel alone, at times. You're actually not. And so it's okay to feel that way. But it's just a feeling. It's not the absolute truth. And so allow yourself to just explore oh, what would it be like if I had if I wasn't alone in this? Like, what if the universe is my friend? What if, like, the trees are my friend? Well, you can just choose whatever you want to you know, the air is my friend. What if I'm not really alone? I just feeling alone. Okay. Oh, that's interesting. And what might I need next? You know, maybe I need I do want to call a friend or maybe I do want to call somebody I haven't thought of in a long time or just go out and talk to another soul.   Michael Hingson ** 49:54 Yeah. It makes perfect sense to do that. Have you written any books or anything   50:01 I have not written in,   Michael Hingson ** 50:02 oh my goodness, there's a job for you. I have written   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 50:05 course material, I have so much course material. It's not even funny. But that's where most of my writing has gone into, like instructional trainings and things of that nature.   Michael Hingson ** 50:15 Do you have online courses available?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 50:17 I will have some I, I am in a transition right now. I'm shifting my brand to say yes to your soul. And so I'm creating materials for that right now. And those will be available soon. And in the meantime, I do have free gifts. So if somebody wants to go if if there's an entrepreneur out there, who wants a little support on a few topics, I've got some videos, I've got an audio right now available to anybody who wants it called to help you connect with your soul truth. Sounds like a guided experience. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 50:56 And so how can people Yeah, how can people reach out to you? How can they get those and learn more about you and maybe contact you to? To get some help?   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 51:04 Yes, they can go to Tessa. T E S S A freegift.com. Tessa free gift.com And there's a signup page. And they can sign up and they'll get a modest amount of emails from me. And I don't share information. I definitely want to respect that. And as soon as you receive an email from me, that's my email if you want to reach out from there you can   Michael Hingson ** 51:33 Well, there you go test a free gift. Calm. Yeah. And yeah, sorry.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 51:39 Go on. You know, I am on social Of course. Yeah. Facebook, my name.   51:46 Tessa Alburn. A L B U R N, right? Yeah.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 51:50 And I'm on Insta, it's realized soul with Tessa. And I'm on LinkedIn. Like, I'm the only Tessa Alburn, which is kind of cool. So you're gonna find me?   Michael Hingson ** 52:02 I have discovered there is more than one Michael hingson in the world, but I don't. We've never I've never run into them. But I know they're out there. So well.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 52:12 That's great. It's one of the things,   Michael Hingson ** 52:14 I want to thank you for being with us. I really greatly appreciate your time. And I know you've got things to go do. I would love it when you get course material or you get links to all that if you would pass it on, because we'll make sure it gets in the show notes. It's gonna be a couple of months or three months before this goes up. Something for you. Oh, get it to us, by all means when this comes up pastic. And the other thing is if you need this to go up sooner, because you want to promote the course stuff when they come out, let me know. But we'll help. Oh, that's so thoughtful. Thank   Michael Hingson ** 52:48 you I plan to help any   Michael Hingson ** 52:49 way that we can. And I hope that people will reach out to you, Tessa, free gifts, free gifts s or just gift singular for singular, says a free gift.com and that they will reach out to you. And I hope that you all will reach out to me. I'd love to hear what you think about the episode that we're just finishing. And also of course, we would appreciate it if you give us a five star rating and we value that very highly let us know with reviews. But those five star ratings we love. If you'd like to reach out to me I'm easy to find it's Michaelhi at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcasts. So please reach out. Tessa for you. And for anyone listening. If you know anyone who you think we ought to have as a guest on this unstoppable mindset podcast series, please let us know we're always looking for more people to meet and to get to know. Because I love to learn and I love to share. So please, if you know anyone let us know. But Tessa, delighted to please. And I want to thank you one last time for being here with us and for giving us your time. So thank you very much for all that you've been able to bring to us today. And we look forward to you being on again and hearing about more your adventures.   Tessa Lynne Alburn ** 54:17 Thank you Michael. It's really been a pleasure.   **Michael Hingson ** 54:25 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Someone in Victorville got a whole lot of love for Sister O'dell.  Steve has a huge fan from Dallas.  Big Dog wasn't being very nice this morning.  LMBAO!!!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sherri Papini, once known as the California 'super mom' who staged her own abduction, has now stepped into the spotlight again. This time, not for her previous staged vanishing act, but for a mounting credit card debt and a contentious bid over insurance money.    Recently released from federal prison, the 41-year-old Papini is drawing attention to herself once more, but now through the lens of the legal system. After serving just over ten months of an 18-month sentence, Papini emerged from a halfway house in Oakland, California, greeted by eager photographers. Sporting a black cardigan, jeans, and shearling boots, Papini confidently waved her release papers. Exclusive photographs captured by DailyMail.com depict her vibrant expression, leaving the Oakland facility, and soon after, making a bold gesture towards the building as she made her departure.    "Being a part of the media for so long, it's no surprise Sherri continues to be a person of interest. The circumstances surrounding her case have always been a point of contention," remarked a local resident. Sherri's past includes a deceiving narrative where she falsely claimed to have been abducted, only to be discovered later that it was a ploy to reunite with a former boyfriend, James Reyes. This revelation not only shocked the nation but turned her life upside down, leading to her incarceration.    Now residing in Red Bluff, a quaint town located 30 miles south of her former home in Redding, California, Sherri hopes to rebuild her life. But a looming court date suggests she might have to deal with past indiscretions first.    Keith Papini, Sherri's estranged husband, detailed in legal documents that she accrued a credit card debt amounting to $3,238.10 over a span of just 15 days in August 2022. This spending spree, he noted, was done without any intent or means of repayment. An examination of the expenses reveals varied purchases ranging from an Airbnb stay in Montague, California, to shopping stints at local Walmart and Kohl's stores. Notably, there were multiple charges made to Amazon, a considerable amount spent on legal fees, and an upscale grocery splurge at Northern California's Raley's store.    Keith's lawyers, highlighting Sherri's lack of responsibility in a statement, stated, "This is who Sherri Papini is – Sherri comes first, consideration of others second, if at all, and truth, integrity, and morality of no consequence."    The couple's relationship has visibly strained since Sherri's elaborate deception came to light. Keith, who once ardently defended his wife's alleged kidnapping story on national television, filed for divorce soon after her arrest. In a heartfelt revelation to the court, Keith labeled his wife as a "skilled liar" and "a manipulator of others without empathy for their pain and loss." The anguish of betrayal echoed as he recollected how he and their children, Tyler and Violet, were deceived by Sherri's act.    Furthermore, Keith has alleged various unsettling behaviors displayed by Sherri, such as isolating the children, inadequate homeschooling, and even wearing cloth drenched in rubbing alcohol around her neck, deceiving her kids that it was a remedy for injuries.    With these allegations, Keith secured legal victories in the divorce procedures. He not only had Sherri declared an 'unfit parent' but also gained sole legal and physical custody of their children. Currently, Sherri's interactions with Tyler and Violet are restricted to supervised visits and voice or video calls at Keith's discretion.    The legal battles don't end here. Earlier this year, from her cell at Victorville, Sherri contested a postnuptial agreement from 2012. She argued that she was "coerced" into signing it, alleging a "violent relationship" with Keith. However, without concrete evidence to back her claims, Judge Summer Ryan ruled against her, directing Sherri to handle her credit card bill.    As the month progresses, Sherri will challenge this ruling in court, putting her in the legal limelight once again. Only time will tell if she'll find a way to start fresh or if past shadows will continue to haunt her future.  Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

Sherri Papini, once known as the California 'super mom' who staged her own abduction, has now stepped into the spotlight again. This time, not for her previous staged vanishing act, but for a mounting credit card debt and a contentious bid over insurance money.    Recently released from federal prison, the 41-year-old Papini is drawing attention to herself once more, but now through the lens of the legal system. After serving just over ten months of an 18-month sentence, Papini emerged from a halfway house in Oakland, California, greeted by eager photographers. Sporting a black cardigan, jeans, and shearling boots, Papini confidently waved her release papers. Exclusive photographs captured by DailyMail.com depict her vibrant expression, leaving the Oakland facility, and soon after, making a bold gesture towards the building as she made her departure.    "Being a part of the media for so long, it's no surprise Sherri continues to be a person of interest. The circumstances surrounding her case have always been a point of contention," remarked a local resident. Sherri's past includes a deceiving narrative where she falsely claimed to have been abducted, only to be discovered later that it was a ploy to reunite with a former boyfriend, James Reyes. This revelation not only shocked the nation but turned her life upside down, leading to her incarceration.    Now residing in Red Bluff, a quaint town located 30 miles south of her former home in Redding, California, Sherri hopes to rebuild her life. But a looming court date suggests she might have to deal with past indiscretions first.    Keith Papini, Sherri's estranged husband, detailed in legal documents that she accrued a credit card debt amounting to $3,238.10 over a span of just 15 days in August 2022. This spending spree, he noted, was done without any intent or means of repayment. An examination of the expenses reveals varied purchases ranging from an Airbnb stay in Montague, California, to shopping stints at local Walmart and Kohl's stores. Notably, there were multiple charges made to Amazon, a considerable amount spent on legal fees, and an upscale grocery splurge at Northern California's Raley's store.    Keith's lawyers, highlighting Sherri's lack of responsibility in a statement, stated, "This is who Sherri Papini is – Sherri comes first, consideration of others second, if at all, and truth, integrity, and morality of no consequence."    The couple's relationship has visibly strained since Sherri's elaborate deception came to light. Keith, who once ardently defended his wife's alleged kidnapping story on national television, filed for divorce soon after her arrest. In a heartfelt revelation to the court, Keith labeled his wife as a "skilled liar" and "a manipulator of others without empathy for their pain and loss." The anguish of betrayal echoed as he recollected how he and their children, Tyler and Violet, were deceived by Sherri's act.    Furthermore, Keith has alleged various unsettling behaviors displayed by Sherri, such as isolating the children, inadequate homeschooling, and even wearing cloth drenched in rubbing alcohol around her neck, deceiving her kids that it was a remedy for injuries.    With these allegations, Keith secured legal victories in the divorce procedures. He not only had Sherri declared an 'unfit parent' but also gained sole legal and physical custody of their children. Currently, Sherri's interactions with Tyler and Violet are restricted to supervised visits and voice or video calls at Keith's discretion.    The legal battles don't end here. Earlier this year, from her cell at Victorville, Sherri contested a postnuptial agreement from 2012. She argued that she was "coerced" into signing it, alleging a "violent relationship" with Keith. However, without concrete evidence to back her claims, Judge Summer Ryan ruled against her, directing Sherri to handle her credit card bill.    As the month progresses, Sherri will challenge this ruling in court, putting her in the legal limelight once again. Only time will tell if she'll find a way to start fresh or if past shadows will continue to haunt her future.  Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

The curious case of Sherri Papini, a married mother-of-two, captivated the nation when she mysteriously disappeared in 2016, only to reappear weeks later, 'dazed, battered, and bruised,' claiming she was held captive by two fictional Latina women. The saga unfolded with more twists as investigators uncovered Papini's past and her involvement with an ex-lover, James Reyes, whom she convinced to help her escape her allegedly abusive husband. Ultimately, Papini was arrested in March 2022 and pleaded guilty to the allegations in April 2022. She was sentenced to probation for 36 months and served her sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Victorville before being moved to a halfway house run by Sacramento's Residential Reentry Management field office.    The bizarre case began in November 2016 when Papini's husband reported her missing after she failed to pick up their children from school. Her cell phone and earbuds were later found on the running track she used. Weeks later, she was found by the side of the road on Thanksgiving, allegedly tortured and starved by her captors, whose faces she claimed she never saw. However, police revealed that she made up the entire story for attention and was actually staying with her ex-boyfriend, James Reyes, during the 22 days she was missing. This revelation drew comparisons to the plot of Gillian Flynn's thriller novel, "Gone Girl."    Papini and Reyes reconnected in 2016 after dating in 2006. Papini convinced Reyes to help her escape her 'abusive' husband, Keith, by arranging for him to pick her up and drive her to his Southern California apartment. Reyes, who admitted to the plot after being identified by DNA found on Papini's clothes, confessed that he thought their relationship would become romantic again, but it never did. Instead, Papini locked herself in his bedroom, starved herself, cut off her hair, and inflicted injuries on herself, even convincing Reyes to brand her with a hot tool. Reyes drove her back to her home in Redding on November 24, unaware of the media storm that had erupted during her disappearance.    Keith Papini, who was duped by his wife, filed for divorce in April 2022, two days after she pleaded guilty to faking her own kidnapping. The couple, who married in 2009, share two children, Tyler, 10, and Violet, 12. Sherri Papini issued a statement last year apologizing for the pain she caused her family and friends and vowing to make amends for the rest of her life. She received over $30,000 worth of psychiatric care for anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder, billed to a state victim compensation fund, which is now part of her restitution.    In a shocking revelation, Mike Mangas, a Roman Catholic Deacon and news anchor, disclosed in the upcoming HLN investigation documentary, "Runaway Mom: The Sherri Papini Story," that investigators found a Bible verse, Exodus 21:16, branded onto Papini's shoulder. The verse reads, 'if anyone has kidnapped someone, they should be put to death.'    The Sherri Papini case highlights the complexities of deception, the impact of false allegations on the community, and the consequences faced by those who fabricate stories that captivate the public's attention. As Papini continues her journey of restitution and self-reflection, the case serves as a stark reminder of the importance of truth and the damaging repercussions of deceit. Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Justice for Harmony Montgomery, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

Kathryn Brooks is a singer-songwriter originally from Louisville, Kentucky and after being "raised all over the place", returned home to Louisville to embark on her music career. Growing her music straight from her Kentucky roots, the artist got her first guitar in 5th grade when retired bluegrass musicians living outside of Bakersfield in the high desert of California began teaching bluegrass classics at her school. Kathryn started songwriting, releasing music, and playing out seriously in New York City during college. She has since continued to write music inspired by the folk, country, and blues music of the region. Louisville, Kentucky to Victorville, California; then to Kutztown, Pennsylvania, New York, New York, and back to Louisville...…with occasional co-writes with a friend in Scotland. "The hope of all this moving around is that there's something from all these places that pours into the music no matter how subtle." --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tophillrecording/support

Hello and welcome to the Relatable Voice Podcast! Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with the incredible Michael Hingson, in Victorville, California. Michael is not only a highly accomplished individual with a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics but also a New York Times Best Selling Author, Keynote Speaker, and Podcaster. He is here to inspire us and tell us about his book " Running with Roselle". Find out more at: www.michaelhingson.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices