Podcast appearances and mentions of kevin now

Kevin and Aislinn talk about Wanderstop, the new game from the creator of The Stanley Parable Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:23: What Have We Been Up To 00:11:58: Game News 00:29:07: New Games 00:31:44: Wanderstop 01:15:33: Outro Links Pixelshire Release Date Honeymancer Early Access Release Date Space Sprouts Release Date Dave the Diver “Ichiban’s Holiday” DLC Another Harvest Moon G-Mode Game Cattle Country Optional Combat Funguys Swarm Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Kevin: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. My name is Kevin (0:00:34) Aislinn: And my name is Aislinn. (0:00:35) Kevin: And we are here to talk about cottagecore games supposedly that’s a little box. It’s whoo (0:00:40) Aislinn: Woo! (0:00:42) Kevin: I forget about that. Well, I always try to be a bit of a smart alec and adding nonsense there, but whoo (0:00:49) Kevin: Although I’m although I don’t know how much I like wooing at this game. I’m very hesitant about whoo (0:00:50) Aislinn: Woo! It’s cute, I like it. (0:00:56) Aislinn: That’s true, that’s true, you make a good point. (0:00:57) Kevin: I’m kidding. I love I love (0:00:58) Aislinn: Spoilers! (0:01:00) Kevin: We’re here to talk about wander stop the tea shop game by the I forget the actual dead team name the Stanley parable people (0:01:09) Kevin: Brace yourself because anyone who’s familiar Stanley parable knows that means things (0:01:16) Aislinn: I wholeheartedly agree. (0:01:17) Kevin: But (0:01:18) Kevin: Okay, but before we get to those things let’s talk about other things (0:01:23) Kevin: Aisling what’s what’s up? What’s been going on tell me about your sky high life? (0:01:26) Aislinn: Um, I think you already know what’s been going on. (0:01:30) Kevin: You (0:01:31) Aislinn: We’ve been very busy with work and when not working, (0:01:36) Aislinn: I’ve been very busy trying to make as much progress as humanly possible in Wandershop. (0:01:42) Kevin: Yeah (0:01:42) Aislinn: And when I’m not doing that, then I’m doing the usual like dailies on my phone of like (0:01:48) Aislinn: Pokémon Sleep, TCG Pocket. I’m hard into Neko Atsume right now. (0:01:50) Kevin: Uh-huh (0:01:52) Kevin: Okay (0:01:56) Aislinn: It’s just the original, and I want to try and get everything in Neko Atsume as much as possible. (0:01:57) Kevin: Okay, wait, what is that one do tell the name escapes me (0:02:03) Aislinn: It’s a cat collecting game. It’s a cat collecting mobile game, (0:02:07) Aislinn: and it’s literally just cat collection, and it’s so cute. It’s so cute. And there’s a new Neko Atsume (0:02:08) Kevin: oh yes okay i’m familiar with this one yes it is (0:02:14) Aislinn: that came out somewhat recently, so I’m like, I’m not gonna play that until I finish the original. (0:02:20) Aislinn: So that’s what I’ve been doing. And then if I’m not doing any of those, (0:02:22) Kevin: Sure. (0:02:25) Aislinn: that I’m doing a lot of wedding planning. (0:02:26) Aislinn: So that’s pretty much what I’ve been up to, yeah. (0:02:27) Kevin: Ahhh! (0:02:29) Kevin: Has that been on the show? Wait, has that been discussed on the show at all? (0:02:32) Kevin: I don’t, I don’t know if it… (0:02:32) Aislinn: No, it has not been discussed in the show, so. (0:02:34) Kevin: Ahh, okay, how far are we? What’s, uh, what’s our target date here? (0:02:39) Aislinn: Our tar- actually, I have not announced to, like, everyone the target date. (0:02:43) Kevin: Oh! (0:02:45) Aislinn: I’ve been keeping that, like, more on a personal note, but I can tell you June. (0:02:47) Kevin: Okay, well you got a range? (0:02:49) Kevin: Sure. (0:02:50) Kevin: Okay. Okay. Well, sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. (0:02:52) Aislinn: Yeah, so we’re almost there. (0:02:52) Kevin: Yes. That’s correct. That’s correct. Very, um, very, very, uh, impressive dedicated you to to playing your wedding during the, the, the Go Fest this year, or whatever the thing’s called. (0:02:56) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:02:57) Aislinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:03:00) Aislinn: Literally, we’re not quite there yet. (0:03:06) Aislinn: It’s, yeah, no, each month that progresses closer and closer. (0:03:08) Kevin: Yes. That’s correct. That’s correct. Very, um, very, very, uh, impressive dedicated you to, to playing your wedding during the, the, the, the Go Fest this year, or whatever the thing’s called. (0:03:09) Aislinn: I’m like more and more just panic, panic, panic. (0:03:22) Aislinn: Well, that wasn’t that wasn’t in the works (0:03:22) Kevin: The, um, all right, but, uh, good stuff. Okay. So let’s see here. Okay. Just, just a side note on that. Have you, uh, I’d play a different kind of cat collecting game. Have you ever heard of the battle cats? (0:03:25) Aislinn: That wasn’t that wasn’t supposed to happen, but it just happened to happen and I was like well (0:03:29) Aislinn: We’re gonna see what happens with that (0:03:46) Aislinn: Um, no, what is that? I’m looking that up right now. (0:03:46) Kevin: Oh, I think I’ve talked to that on the show, but, um, (0:03:52) Kevin: you know, I’m going to tag you an image on the slack. I’m creating the, the live slack thread of me. (0:03:58) Aislinn: Wait, this looks so cute. (0:04:04) Kevin: What are you, you googled it. (0:04:04) Aislinn: I’m looking at it right now. (0:04:05) Aislinn: Yeah, of course I googled it. (0:04:08) Kevin: Okay. Because I was going to show all, but did you see the freaky ones yet? Um, yes, those are legs. Did you see the one with the buff one? That’s the last four legs. (0:04:10) Aislinn: Oh, those are legs. (0:04:19) Aislinn: I have not seen that yet. (0:04:22) Kevin: Yes. They’re kind of cute, but also terrifying. Like it’s, it’s a very cheek cheeky, like comical tone. Um, yeah. Yeah. There you go. There’s good old fish cat. And those are just the basics, right? Like this, it’s a gotcha game. (0:04:30) Aislinn: It’s a it’s a good aesthetic. I like, oh, I found the buff one. I found the buff one. (0:04:40) Kevin: So, and it’s, I think 10 years old now and they actually get a lot of crossovers. They’ve crossed over, they cross over like Hatsune Miku every six years. Um, Street Fighter was one. (0:04:50) Aislinn: Ooh. (0:04:54) Kevin: Um, Konosuba, I think lots of animes. I don’t know. Um, but it’s yeah. And on the best part, the best part about their crossover is you get both ways. You get Hatsune Miku as a playable character and then you get a cat that looks like Hatsune Miku. (0:05:00) Aislinn: You got me with Miku, that’s it. That’s the end-all for me. Miku or boss? That’s it. (0:05:13) Aislinn: Oh my god. That is wonderful. (0:05:14) Kevin: Here, I’ll see if I can find it. Um, I play that one on and off. My brother is a big, um, is a big, uh, (0:05:22) Kevin: battle cats fan more than ISO. Um, uh, but, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s a great one there. I posted a pic. You want to see it. Um, there’s your Hatsune Miku cat. Um, they literally just used the standard cat and put the costume on it. It’s, it’s hilarious. Oh, one of my favorite ones. They did Evangelion. (0:05:34) Aislinn: Oh my god! It’s so cute! It’s so good! (0:05:40) Aislinn: That’s wonderful! (0:05:46) Aislinn: Ooh, that’s sick. That’s really cool. (0:05:50) Kevin: That was a good one, that was a good one. (0:05:54) Kevin: Anyways, so anything else, I’m sorry? (0:05:55) Aislinn: Well, I will be checking out this game. (0:05:58) Aislinn: I will be checking out this game. (0:05:58) Kevin: Oh, it’s free, be warned. (0:06:02) Aislinn: Oh, perfect! That’s all I need. Free is for me. That’s it. (0:06:04) Kevin: There you go. (0:06:04) Aislinn: um that’s pretty much been it I guess actually one one little thing that I can kind of announce (0:06:06) Kevin: Aw, sick, I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on Battle Cats. (0:06:08) Kevin: It’s pretty fun. (0:06:10) Kevin: Anything else you’ve been up to? (0:06:19) Aislinn: and we’re really really hoping the best so like you know how I kept saying for today like oh i (0:06:21) Kevin: Yes, to be fair, you’re always busy so that wasn’t out of the ordinary. (0:06:23) Aislinn: have i’m busy earlier in the day and that’s we’re recording at 9 p.m eastern um yeah but it’s more (0:06:33) Aislinn: fun news so hope (0:06:34) Aislinn: we will have a new kitty or two in the household here so that’s what we were doing earlier today so i’m like I i’ve been holding that like i’ve been withholding that just for like a I wanted to get your genuine reaction like first reaction to it so (0:06:42) Kevin: Oh, oh hot off the press (0:06:54) Kevin: Oh (0:06:55) Aislinn: pause cast exclusive (0:06:57) Kevin: Podcast exclusive you heard it first here. Oh, that’s okay. Okay. You said possibly multiple. Well, yeah (0:07:05) Aislinn: yeah we’re just waiting on what I i’m not saying too much just because there’s a lot of logistics which I can tell you about later there’s a lot of logistics that we’re currently figuring out but it should hopefully work out tomorrow question mark. (0:07:11) Kevin: Sure (0:07:14) Kevin: Okay (0:07:15) Kevin: Yeah as (0:07:18) Kevin: You know, well, that’s that’s exciting. I can’t wait to hear and see them and so on but but that’s good (0:07:22) Aislinn: yeah. (0:07:24) Kevin: There should be logistics involved unlike us who a guy just kind of said. Hey, you want a free cat and handed us two kittens? (0:07:26) Aislinn: absolutely. (0:07:33) Kevin: Okay, oh they they are very love yes (0:07:33) Aislinn: but they are loved and that’s all that (0:07:34) Aislinn: matters but otherwise that’s it no not by any means (0:07:40) Kevin: Yeah that and let’s be honest cats are not the hardest to take care of (0:07:44) Kevin: You know that the hard part is cat. No, no such thing as catproofing but bracing for the uncommon storm, but (0:07:52) Aislinn: Yeah, we are definitely bracing here. (0:07:54) Kevin: Oh (0:07:55) Kevin: That’s exciting. I can’t wait to hear more. Um, congratulations. Very very excited about that (0:07:57) Aislinn: Yeah! Thank you! (0:08:00) Aislinn: What about for you? (0:08:01) Kevin: Okay, um (0:08:02) Kevin: so I will (0:08:02) Aislinn: I like your just Chicago man. (0:08:04) Kevin: Yeah, so I I don’t know if I mentioned it on this show, but I started a new job (0:08:12) Kevin: About a month and a half ago started February (0:08:15) Kevin: and (0:08:18) Kevin: I’m hit the ground running. They sent me to a trade show to man a booth (0:08:22) Kevin: and that was (0:08:24) Kevin: I was there all week this past week (0:08:26) Kevin: my feet are dead (0:08:28) Kevin: I’m ready to be chopped off (0:08:30) Kevin: not my first time in Chicago (0:08:32) Kevin: I actually went to that same event (0:08:34) Kevin: two years ago but (0:08:36) Kevin: as an attendee, not an exhibitor (0:08:38) Kevin: so yeah (0:08:38) Aislinn: Uh-huh. (0:08:40) Kevin: my role is partially sales now (0:08:42) Kevin: so I actually have to go up (0:08:44) Kevin: and pitch and talk to people and so on (0:08:46) Kevin: and so forth and try to get leads (0:08:48) Kevin: so that was (0:08:50) Kevin: busy, excited, it was good work (0:08:52) Kevin: Um, yeah. (0:08:52) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:08:54) Kevin: Um, I, I, I learned a lot trial by fire, absolutely, but good times. (0:08:58) Kevin: Um, and, and there was other enjoy it. (0:09:00) Kevin: Well, it was, it was like 90% work, but there were some nice dinners. (0:09:05) Kevin: One night we hit a piano bar. (0:09:07) Kevin: That was quite fun. (0:09:08) Aislinn: Ooooh, that’s really cool. (0:09:09) Kevin: Uh, it wasn’t, it wasn’t even, it wasn’t a super classy one. (0:09:12) Kevin: Um, it was very more bar than piano, if that makes sense. (0:09:15) Kevin: But you had the guy up there playing the songs and, and, and you can make requests (0:09:19) Kevin: and there was enough space to dance, which I did. (0:09:21) Kevin: I am a dancing machine. (0:09:22) Aislinn: Bye! (0:09:22) Kevin: fun fact. (0:09:24) Kevin: so yeah so which after a full day of standing and exhibiting wasn’t the best (0:09:30) Kevin: idea of my I pre bled my feet for the next day but but so worth it yeah yeah (0:09:34) Aislinn: Eh, it’s all in good fun. It’s all in good fun! (0:09:37) Kevin: um yeah that was uh that was fun I tried the deep dish that was good weather (0:09:44) Kevin: weather was insane it was it was snowing when I landed and like the next day we (0:09:50) Kevin: We hit 70 degrees and then two days later it hailed. (0:09:50) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:54) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:54) Kevin: It was a roller coaster. (0:09:56) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:56) Kevin: Oh, a life first. I had a hailstone land directly into my mouth. (0:10:02) Kevin: As I said, was that hail and the duke just right in there? (0:10:06) Aislinn: Why do I feel like that’s like such a you thing? (0:10:10) Aislinn: That feels like such a you thing. (0:10:10) Kevin: Yeah, that’s… that’s correct. (0:10:12) Kevin: That is 100% correct. (0:10:16) Aislinn: I’ve never heard that before. That’s amazing. (0:10:18) Kevin: Yeah. (0:10:20) Kevin: Yup. (0:10:20) Aislinn: So it sounds like you had a great time in Chicago. (0:10:24) Kevin: Yeah, it was a lot of work, but it was a legendary time. (0:10:28) Kevin: We’ll be back in two years. Next year there’s a different trade. (0:10:30) Kevin: So actually here, right here in Atlanta, home turf. (0:10:34) Kevin: So at least I don’t have to do the major travel bit, but I’m sure it will be just as busy. (0:10:40) Kevin: But yes, good times were had, success was had by kind of me. (0:10:46) Kevin: Baby salesmen on his training wheels did little salesmen. (0:10:46) Aislinn: I’m sure you did great. (0:10:52) Kevin: Aside from that, obviously (0:10:54) Kevin: not a lot of time for games. I snuck in a few of the regulars. Marvel, Snap, Rivals, Unite, here and there on different occasions and so on. (0:11:00) Kevin: That’s all fine and all. (0:11:04) Kevin: Wander Stop, like you said, trying to squeeze in as much time humanly possible. (0:11:08) Kevin: And not even just because I want to play for the show, because I just want to play more Wander Stop. (0:11:08) Aislinn: No, me too I feel that, which we’ll definitely get into. (0:11:16) Kevin: And also, for the Mario-verse over there on the other show of Rainbow Road Radio, (0:11:22) Kevin: I play (0:11:24) Kevin: I did the same Kingdom. That’s not the little Mexican (0:11:27) Kevin: Kingdom in Super Mario Odyssey good times (0:11:30) Aislinn: Oh, sick. (0:11:31) Kevin: Yes, good. I love you mate. It’s all a replay (0:11:35) Kevin: But super enjoyable. I’m Mexican. What can I say? I’m super biased. They did I did Mario, Mexico (0:11:38) Aislinn: that game in general was just fantastic so i’m glad to hear that too that that section is like (0:11:40) Kevin: I have no complaints. They got him into sombrero (0:11:45) Kevin: It is yeah like (0:11:47) Kevin: What can I say what? (0:11:48) Aislinn: enjoyable for you (0:11:49) Kevin: She’s shocking this revisit to Super Mario Odyssey. Yeah, I’ve determined. It’s a good game (0:11:57) Kevin: Alright. (0:11:58) Kevin: Speaking of good games, I say that with an asterisk, or you have no idea. (0:12:02) Kevin: laughs Let’s talk about some game news. laughs Let’s talk about some announcements and such. (0:12:05) Aislinn: yeah (0:12:07) Kevin: Alright, take us away Ace with our first one. (0:12:09) Aislinn: all right so in game news the first game that I am looking at is pixel shire that’s going to be (0:12:16) Aislinn: releasing on the 8th of may and from what i’m looking at on the steam page it says that it is (0:12:22) Aislinn: an adventure farming sim 2d single player game from the developer capibits and it it really does (0:12:30) Aislinn: seem like a adventure farming sim 2d single player 2d single player game it also has notes about unique (0:12:37) Aislinn: RPG sandbox. (0:12:38) Aislinn: Which mixes Lifesim elements with town building, exploration, and combat. (0:12:46) Aislinn: And you can trade, you can do all the things that are normally in most farming sim games. (0:12:53) Kevin: that’s correct (0:12:55) Kevin: uh… I would (0:12:55) Aislinn: But it looks really cute! (0:12:56) Kevin: okay cs the first of all okay up (0:12:59) Kevin: the name I would imply it’s to be pixel art and it is cute (0:13:02) Kevin: uh… it is a a bit more chibi ask or or eight-bit than say uh… (0:13:05) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:13:08) Kevin: uh… stardew valley (0:13:09) Aislinn: It’s more round. (0:13:09) Kevin: uh… so you know (0:13:11) Kevin: uh… it’s a it’s different flavor (0:13:13) Kevin: uh… but there are some actually notable elements I think in here that (0:13:16) Kevin: they were talking about on first of all like you mentioned (0:13:18) Kevin: uh… sandbox as in (0:13:20) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:23) Aislinn: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s really, really cool. (0:13:24) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:32) Aislinn: Yeah. Mm-hmm. (0:13:53) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:53) Aislinn: Oh, I didn’t realize that about this game too! That’s awesome! (0:14:08) Aislinn: I agree. Yeah, I like the art style. I like the kind of, I guess you could say animal (0:14:14) Aislinn: crossing aspect, but more so, more generally, the sandbox aspect of being able to, as it (0:14:20) Aislinn: says, re-sculpt the world through terraforming. I think that’s really, really cool. And honestly, (0:14:23) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they they emphasize on the yeah, yeah, so. (0:14:25) Aislinn: any game that has animals that you can raise to, they are so cute in this game. I love (0:14:31) Aislinn: it. So, but it looks, it looks great. Like as someone, as someone has been in a stance (0:14:36) Aislinn: of like being overwhelmed constantly by (0:14:38) Aislinn: farming games. This is this is a farming game. I know. This (0:14:40) Kevin: Welcome, welcome to the show, Eastland. (0:14:45) Aislinn: is one farming game that actually does peak more (0:14:47) Aislinn: interest versus other farming games. So yeah, big props to (0:14:48) Kevin: Yeah. (0:14:51) Aislinn: them. Looks really, really cool. (0:14:53) Kevin: I have not facepalmed the one watching the trailer. (0:14:56) Kevin: So good on you. (0:14:58) Kevin: That’s a thumbs up. (0:15:00) Kevin: No, and you know what? (0:15:02) Kevin: I’m, I may jinx it, but I didn’t see any romance in there. (0:15:06) Aislinn: I’m sure there’s romance. There’s no way there’s not. There’s no way there’s not. (0:15:06) Kevin: Free free from the shackles. (0:15:08) Kevin: No, well, either way. (0:15:13) Kevin: Oh, oh, okay. (0:15:15) Kevin: Wait, hold on one second. (0:15:16) Kevin: I just want to say, okay, sorry about that. (0:15:16) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:15:18) Kevin: The jaws theme played as my puppy entered the room. (0:15:21) Aislinn: Oh, no. (0:15:21) Kevin: Um… [laughs] (0:15:23) Kevin: Um… [laughs] (0:15:25) Kevin: Okay. Alright, what’s up next? Do tell me. (0:15:28) Aislinn: All right, so the next game that I’m looking at here is Honeymancer, and it’s coming soon to Early Access. (0:15:36) Aislinn: It’s currently on March 27th. (0:15:38) Aislinn: So, yeah, or actually, yeah, that’s what it seems to look like. March 27th, Early Access, coming soon, and also another Pixel 2D-looking situation, but this is more so the tags are Indie, RPG, Pixel Graphics, Tower Defense 2D, and it looks like this is not really a farming game at all. (0:16:01) Aislinn: And when I first looked at it with the just because of the art style alone, I was like, oh, it’s another far (0:16:06) Aislinn: I’m again, I’m like, oh, wait, no, it’s not. Wait, that’s really cool. And it’s got bees and we love bees here. So (0:16:09) Kevin: Yeah (0:16:12) Kevin: Yeah, all right, so there’s a few few things going on here right first of all the premise of bear wizard (0:16:19) Kevin: That’s pretty strong already right you’re you’re setting its own bear witch excuse me (0:16:25) Kevin: You have a one you’re shooting things in combat (0:16:28) Kevin: You’re fighting off robots invading the forest with other cute neighbor animals (0:16:33) Aislinn: which the robots look so cute by the way I just again the art style I’m just like gosh I love (0:16:35) Kevin: They do (0:16:38) Aislinn: this art style it’s so cute I’m such a sucker for good art styles yeah they do it’s so cute (0:16:40) Kevin: I (0:16:41) Kevin: Yup, it is a it is a very strong art style. Absolutely. I’m again 2d pixel, but it’s a very strong one (0:16:47) Kevin: I like how even the trees kind of look like beehives. It’s a very cute little touch (0:16:53) Kevin: yep (0:16:54) Kevin: there looks like there’s (0:16:57) Kevin: Management of some kind you’re growing flowers for bees making potions. So, you know, there’s elements of cottagecore stuff (0:17:03) Kevin: But it’s not your standard you have grandpa’s farm or whatever on which is fun (0:17:09) Kevin: Special shoutouts to the as they describe it the bee dog. There’s a large bumblebee flying you around. It’s more bee than dog (0:17:17) Kevin: we the the big question which (0:17:20) Kevin: You know, we’ll have to wait is where does it land on the Cody scale of acceptability? (0:17:25) Aislinn: I know, we’ll have to stay tuned to find out, right? (0:17:28) Kevin: Is it is it is it Cheeba fight is it cartoonified enough? (0:17:34) Kevin: But I mean, it’s a pretty big bee. So I think she’s gonna be on (0:17:36) Aislinn: It is a very big B. (0:17:39) Kevin: Bigger than you. So I think I think she’s gonna be on board with this one (0:17:40) Aislinn: It really is. (0:17:44) Kevin: But there are other non giant bees that you are helping raise. So that’s fun (0:17:49) Kevin: You know, it’s hard to tell how deep they’re going into it and unexpected to be (0:17:53) Kevin: You know for on be sim but but it looks good enough. It goes into the bear honey (0:17:59) Aislinn: Yeah, no, it looks it looks really cute. It’s hard to get much information based off of just (0:17:59) Kevin: So yeah (0:18:03) Aislinn: the Steam page, but like it looks generally really cute. We’ll see you soon in early access. (0:18:04) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:06) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:09) Aislinn: If this is your type of gameplay, I think it’s worth checking out because it just the (0:18:09) Kevin: March 27th (0:18:13) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:13) Aislinn: colors alone are like really pretty too. Yeah, I love that. Uh-huh. Yeah, they feel very anime. (0:18:15) Kevin: The colors are very well done (0:18:16) Kevin: I like the expressions on the characters and the little portraits when they’re speaking they get exaggerated in cartoonish. That’s that’s (0:18:24) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s fantastic (0:18:26) Kevin: I’m right because I think that’s probably a big criticism (0:18:30) Kevin: You have a lot of these cottage cores like the this character portraits are somewhat muted a lot of times (0:18:35) Kevin: I would say this one’s going for the anime eyes and everything (0:18:39) Aislinn: Yeah, I like it. I really do like it (0:18:39) Kevin: It’s great. I have one big criticism against it though (0:18:45) Kevin: And it’s nothing the game itself done, but unfortunately the title of honeymancer actually (0:18:45) Aislinn: Oh, okay (0:18:52) Kevin: I think it’s honey wizard has already been claimed by Winnie the Pooh in the Lorkana (0:18:57) Kevin: Card game have you okay? I posted it in the thread if you’ll take a look Aislin (0:19:01) Aislinn: Let me see. (0:19:02) Kevin: Lorkana the Disney TCG came out with a card called Winnie the Pooh honey wizard and (0:19:03) Aislinn: Oh my gosh, I’ve never, (0:19:07) Aislinn: I’ve never seen Winnie the Pooh look so magical. (0:19:09) Kevin: It’s pretty amazing. It’s (0:19:12) Kevin: Possibly the best card. They’ve ever come out with and so (0:19:15) Kevin: you know you do a lot of great things honeyman sir, but (0:19:16) Aislinn: Was that a pun? (0:19:20) Kevin: You got a tall tall bar or tall bear. I guess to cross to overcome there (0:19:24) Aislinn: What was that a pun though? Is that possibly you get it the pun because you said possibly possibly (0:19:28) Kevin: Do what oh (0:19:31) Kevin: Yes, yes (0:19:35) Kevin: Okay, I guess all right there all right beautiful (0:19:37) Aislinn: We got it we got we got there one way or another we got there (0:19:39) Kevin: I like this shot of the raccoon screaming in the trailer just eyes fisheyes in different directions with full vertical mouth. It’s great (0:19:52) Kevin: Yeah, all right (0:19:55) Kevin: What a speaking of moods. What do we actually I do have a mood. I don’t know what’s next. What’s next? (0:19:58) Aislinn: The next game is the next game is Space Sprouts, an exploration puzzle physics simulation 2D (0:20:01) Kevin: No, it’s (0:20:09) Aislinn: game are the tags, and it does primarily look like it’s a puzzle game where you bend the (0:20:17) Aislinn: rule of physics, experiment with unusual gadgets, and toss everything around. (0:20:23) Aislinn: I think out of the three games that we discussed so far, I think this game feels mostly up (0:20:28) Aislinn: because I’m always down for a good puzzle game, and the fact that there is physics in this too (0:20:31) Kevin: Uh huh. Yeah, in a good way. Yeah, that that that is a very specific alliterative title (0:20:33) Aislinn: really also intrigues me. It looks like it also kind of infuriates me, but I’m kind of, (0:20:38) Aislinn: oh perfect, cozy cosmic chaos feels like the perfect description for this game. (0:20:47) Kevin: and it works. Right, so space is the key thing right here, right? We’re not we’re managing (0:20:52) Kevin: a space station. And so you’re going to have gravity physics and light bending and all (0:20:56) Kevin: sorts of nonsense. There’s all in the trailer, you see the water floating around, you have (0:21:01) Kevin: a push it or whatever. So expect space shenanigans. Um, that sounds kind of cute. Like a very muted (0:21:09) Kevin: storybook looking design for these characters. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it is a very nice looking (0:21:12) Aislinn: Yeah, I like the colors. (0:21:15) Aislinn: I’m all about the colors of all of these games so far. (0:21:18) Aislinn: All of these games look really, really nice. (0:21:21) Kevin: game. Demo out now if you are curious and full release date in just a little over a (0:21:28) Kevin: for a week on March 31st. (0:21:30) Aislinn: Almost there! (0:21:32) Kevin: Yup, so, uh, good on you space sprouts. (0:21:35) Kevin: Um, yeah, I’m sure some people hint, hint on the show. (0:21:39) Kevin: Might like, I don’t, I, I have no idea who, but I feel like somebody (0:21:42) Aislinn: I mean, I like it, I’m interested in it. (0:21:43) Kevin: on the show will want to play. (0:21:48) Kevin: Well, oh, there we, okay. (0:21:49) Kevin: That’s one down. (0:21:50) Kevin: Let’s, let’s get another, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see. (0:21:53) Aislinn: I might be infuriated, I don’t know, but I’m also like, it’s a good type of infuriating (0:21:57) Kevin: Well, yeah, and that’s fine. (0:21:57) Aislinn: and that’s what this game looks like, so I’m into it. (0:22:01) Kevin: I’ve had the bad period on the show many, many times, possibly more than not. (0:22:07) Aislinn: It’d really be that way. (0:22:11) Kevin: All right, next up. (0:22:12) Kevin: Ooh, this is a good one. (0:22:14) Aislinn: You take the floor. (0:22:14) Kevin: I think they’d announced it. (0:22:16) Kevin: Yeah, I think they announced it during the game awards or no. (0:22:20) Kevin: Was that the jungle DLC? (0:22:21) Kevin: I feel like this was announced at some point, but if not, we got a full, (0:22:25) Kevin: uh, a more proper breakdown of Dave, the diver DLC can’t. (0:22:31) Kevin: Stop won’t stop. (0:22:32) Kevin: I mean, I mean, they’re made by the maple story desk, so they have (0:22:35) Kevin: the money to actually never stop. (0:22:37) Aislinn: Just keep going. (0:22:37) Kevin: Um, yeah, basically. (0:22:41) Kevin: Um, and so it is a, not that it is the second, um, crossover DLC this time (0:22:46) Kevin: with the like a dragon series, AKA previously known as the Yakuza series. (0:22:51) Kevin: Um, you are teaming up with itchy bond, um, and doing all sorts of shenanigans. (0:22:57) Kevin: Are you familiar with like a dragon at all? (0:22:59) Aislinn: I am like not I’ve never played the games, but like I am familiar and I remember when I heard about this (0:23:05) Aislinn: Because I heard about this like a while ago. I don’t remember how long it was long ago. It was but I was like, what? (0:23:10) Kevin: Yeah (0:23:10) Aislinn: I was like, how did the two these two worlds collide? I need to know how these two worlds collided. This is so cool (0:23:15) Kevin: Well (0:23:19) Kevin: It is and at the same time that feels appropriate for both franchises how on earth did this happen (0:23:25) Kevin: Um, I have never played one myself, but I am also familiar very familiar with the series (0:23:30) Kevin: so introduced we have (0:23:33) Kevin: Included in all these features. We have a genuine 2d beat ’em up side scroller where you can play as Ichiban and (0:23:41) Kevin: Cobra yeah, I think it plays Cobra Wow Oh Cobra’s playable. I didn’t catch that. That’s so cool (0:23:47) Kevin: There is a karaoke minigame because if nothing else what if that was included how could this be called like a dragon? (0:23:56) Kevin: We have let’s see what else here (0:23:59) Kevin: We’ve got we got several characters from the like a dragon series as staff members for your restaurant. It’s fun (0:24:07) Aislinn: I like that there seems to be the karaoke minigame. I feel like that fear feels very, like, Yakuza-esque. (0:24:08) Kevin: Ah, junk. (0:24:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:24:15) Kevin: Oh, yeah, it is. (0:24:17) Kevin: Um, yeah, that land that launches, uh, April 10th, not terribly far away, about two weeks away. (0:24:26) Kevin: Um, so there, there will probably be a return to David diver sometime in the future. (0:24:32) Kevin: Uh, because I’m playing this. (0:24:34) Kevin: Absolutely. (0:24:36) Kevin: Um, that looks great. (0:24:36) Aislinn: It looks great, it really does look great. (0:24:40) Kevin: So I keep an eye out and then the jungle DLC is still being worked on and coming in the future. (0:24:45) Kevin: So again, can’t stop, won’t stop. (0:24:49) Kevin: Um, Dave keeps diving and doing everyone’s work. (0:24:52) Kevin: Um, all right, let’s see next up. (0:24:55) Kevin: Another series that has not yet stopped as of now. (0:24:58) Kevin: Uh, we’ve got story of seasons or I guess this one is like harvest moon proper because it’s, it’s in Japanese as of now, um, a harvest moon G mode game. (0:25:10) Kevin: Um, it, it is a port of a phone game from, what was it like 2008, I think on the harvest moon series. (0:25:16) Aislinn: Yes, it says 2008 on the Steam page, and yeah, it’s a port coming to Steam, but… (0:25:21) Kevin: Yup. (0:25:22) Kevin: Yup. (0:25:23) Kevin: So it’s a early mobile farming game and you know, that’s, that’s cool. (0:25:27) Kevin: You can see it, you can feel it kind of GBA S graphics, um, which is fun and cute. (0:25:34) Kevin: Um, you know, too bad it’s all in Japanese. (0:25:36) Aislinn: I, you know, cause I’ve been telling myself for the past like couple weeks, like I really (0:25:36) Kevin: So, this one I won’t be playing, probably. (0:25:45) Aislinn: should actively get back into learning Japanese. Cause I was learning Japanese at one point (0:25:50) Aislinn: when I was in like first grade and then I fell off cause I was a stubborn kid, long (0:25:54) Kevin: Hmm. Okay. (laughs) (0:25:55) Aislinn: story short, but like, I don’t know. Maybe if I get back into actually learning properly, (0:26:00) Aislinn: maybe I’ll pick up this game. It looks cute, but I don’t know anything about it because (0:26:02) Kevin: yeah it does (0:26:06) Kevin: yeah we can’t read a thing on it we just (0:26:10) Kevin: it’s all I can do is point and says that looks like a harvest moon game for a (0:26:14) Aislinn: I was like, “That’s a cow! That’s chicken! That’s all I’ve got!” (0:26:14) Kevin: phone (0:26:18) Kevin: there are anime pretty people that you can probably romance (0:26:22) Kevin: yeah uh… (0:26:24) Kevin: but uh… (0:26:26) Kevin: yeah uh… releasing on steam do we have a date for that (0:26:29) Kevin: And it’s coming soon. Yeah. (0:26:30) Aislinn: As of now, we do not have a date, but regardless, if you are interested in this and you can (0:26:33) Kevin: But yeah, we, yeah. (0:26:36) Aislinn: read Japanese, even if you can’t read Japanese and you are interested in it, it is coming soon! (0:26:41) Kevin: Oh man, go back to those early 2000s when you have the fan translation from GameFacts. (0:26:47) Kevin: Good times. (0:26:50) Kevin: But but yeah, you know, one thing to note, this is a second port that they’ve done in the series, (0:26:55) Kevin: which is interesting to me, suggesting that the first one was successful enough to warrant it. (0:27:00) Aislinn: I guess so. (0:27:01) Kevin: That’s pretty cool. (0:27:02) Aislinn: I’m glad. (0:27:02) Kevin: Yeah, I know nothing either. I should’ve picked up Japanese. I’m too big of a weeb not to. (0:27:03) Aislinn: I’m glad for the people that do care about this. (0:27:05) Aislinn: I know nothing about it, but I am happy for those that care about it. (0:27:12) Kevin: I mean, I know some Japanese words. I want to make them echo the journey one day, but in due time I guess. (0:27:20) Kevin: Alright, let’s see here. Next up we’ve got info on cattle country. Yes, not Kent County. Country bigger than that. (0:27:30) Kevin: We have got (0:27:33) Kevin: They say so what interesting thing (0:27:37) Kevin: The thing probably the biggest note is, you know, they’re talking about some features and whatnot, but combat is totally optional (0:27:44) Kevin: Which is kind of wild to see in these games right cuz (0:27:48) Kevin: You know most cottagecore games following the stardew template (0:27:53) Kevin: How you know have some kind of? (0:27:56) Kevin: combat stuck in there, right (0:27:58) Kevin: And it’s you know, just because it’s optional. It’s not bad here. I’m looking that you got bows and arrows (0:28:02) Kevin: And guns and all sorts of stuff (0:28:05) Kevin: But the fact that it’s optional and they’re advertising that that’s uh, that’s pretty fun (0:28:10) Aislinn: I think it’s great yeah I i don’t know why that would put that would it’s a great it’s (0:28:15) Aislinn: it’s a great thing honestly like I have nothing else to say besides like this is something that (0:28:19) Aislinn: is a great feature because if you want to do it you can do it if you don’t want to (0:28:22) Aislinn: you just ignore it’s a win-win (0:28:24) Kevin: Yup. Yup. This is another game where it looks like you can partner up with some of your neighbors or villagers and whatnot, so that’s, that’s fun. (0:28:32) Kevin: There’s, yeah, I think we’ve talked about it before, but there’s, if you look at the trailer, there’s square dancing. They’re playing a nice Western medley song. (0:28:40) Kevin: Um, you’re, it’s very, how, it’s, it’s HANU. Um, that’s what it is. We got state coaches, we got trains, all the good stuff. (0:28:40) Aislinn: Very, it’s definitely very howdy partner. (0:28:52) Kevin: Um, they’re good at ge– (0:28:54) Kevin: Hey, howdy, hey, get your snake in your boot and keep an eye out for cattle count–country. (0:28:57) Aislinn: I mean, there’s even a character named Bandit, so take that as you will. (0:29:00) Kevin: Um, again, I don’t– (0:29:02) Kevin: Yeah, there you go! Eyes required. (0:29:07) Kevin: Alright, next up, a new game, we’ve got, uh, okay. (0:29:10) Kevin: So I started looking at this, and, you know, pre-recording, you know, going over, preparing, whatnot. (0:29:15) Kevin: And I stopped because I just kept saying, “What is this?” I needed to– (0:29:20) Kevin: to put some of that energy into the recording. (0:29:24) Kevin: We are looking at a game called “Fungi’s Swarm.” (0:29:24) Aislinn: It’s so silly. (0:29:28) Kevin: Um, so, you know, G-U-Y-S, “Sworn.” (0:29:32) Kevin: Um, it is a bullet hell game. (0:29:36) Kevin: Um, it is their first dev, uh, like, dev blog. (0:29:41) Kevin: Um, and they are showing it’s– (0:29:44) Kevin: Kinda what the whole thing, right? It is a cartoony, survivor bullet hell, where you become a fungi, (0:29:49) Kevin: wield forest-crafted weapons and unleash bonkers powers against the fire killer. (0:29:54) Kevin: So you there’s a lot going on here. There’s a mushroom guy running around. There’s pumpkin vegetable monsters and bears and like vegetables. I don’t an apple bear and an apple. (0:30:08) Aislinn: There’s a there’s an easter egg for from Coral Island of a waterfowl and it’s the cutest thing I’ve ever seen (0:30:14) Kevin: What I didn’t see that’s incredible. That’s incredible. (0:30:20) Kevin: incredible you’re running around is your little fungus guy with (0:30:24) Kevin: giant watermelon acts like the waterman slice is bigger than you are (0:30:27) Kevin: it’s enormous there’s a great blaster gun thing you’ve got the powers like oh (0:30:34) Kevin: oh yeah that’s uh this is some good stuff there’s what is going on with this (0:30:40) Kevin: apple teeny it’s a half-eaten apple with a warm a very buff warm popping out of (0:30:45) Kevin: it you know there’s runs it’s oh it’s colorful it’s wacky it’s cartoony it’s (0:30:54) Kevin: magnificent I don’t what are these little for sanctuary pals you got like (0:30:58) Kevin: buzz balls with fruit stems there’s all block (0:31:00) Aislinn: I have no, not a single clue, but it looks like, it looks cute and fun, cozy and fun. (0:31:08) Kevin: yep yep (0:31:08) Aislinn: It looks like it’s a good balance of that, I feel like. (0:31:11) Aislinn: I feel like it does somehow fit into the Cottagecore game. (0:31:14) Aislinn: It just, it just somehow does fit, yes it is like a bullet hell game, but it still feels, (0:31:20) Aislinn: it feels like it’s going to be accessible enough to fall into the category of Cottagecore. (0:31:20) Kevin: Oh, yeah for sure. Um, it’s certainly caught my eye (0:31:27) Kevin: Obviously, we’re gonna be a ways off from this bad boy coming out, but I’m definitely keeping my out that is again fun guys swarm (0:31:35) Kevin: They’re good on you a lot of good news stories this week. Nothing. Nothing. Give me any heartache or anything (0:31:38) Aislinn: Honestly, yeah. (0:31:42) Kevin: That’s exciting stuff. Oh (0:31:45) Kevin: All right, and with that let’s talk about some let’s move on to something else exciting. Let’s talk about (0:31:50) Aislinn: Yeah. Oh my gosh. (0:31:50) Kevin: Wonder stuff, huh? (0:31:53) Kevin: Okay, so again, this is the tea shop simulator created by the Stanley parable dev team (0:32:01) Kevin: If you haven’t played Stanley parable (0:32:04) Kevin: You might want to pause go listen because I think we need to talk about it because that’s important for context (0:32:09) Kevin: and (0:32:10) Kevin: So important that acelin has actually played Stanley parable prior to the gay wonder stuff in preparation (0:32:17) Kevin: So let’s hear some thoughts (0:32:17) Aislinn: I did. Yeah, so I, yeah, once I found out that this game was being created by the people (0:32:25) Aislinn: that made Stanley Parable, I very much was like, I’ve always wanted to play Stanley Parable, (0:32:31) Aislinn: but I put that way up on my, I moved that way up for my backlog, because I knew and (0:32:35) Kevin: Uh-huh (0:32:37) Aislinn: I’ve heard great things about this game, which I think everyone knows about. If you haven’t (0:32:41) Aislinn: played the game, you still know the premise of the game and what the game is all about. (0:32:43) Kevin: John (0:32:44) Kevin: Yep for for (0:32:45) Aislinn: And I was very curious to check it out. (0:32:46) Kevin: Yeah for clarity. I have not played it myself, but as you said, I am very familiar (0:32:50) Kevin: I know all the secrets. I don’t feel free to let out whatever you want. Um, you just listener assume we’re spoiling whatever. Okay, it’s (0:32:53) Aislinn: Yeah, I played as many, spoiler warning for Stanley Parable, a very long time. (0:32:59) Kevin: Yes game that’s been out how long now (0:33:04) Aislinn: But the thing is, before I played Stanley Parable, I knew it was a strange game or a (0:33:08) Aislinn: very interesting game that a lot of people liked, but I didn’t know what the premise (0:33:11) Aislinn: of the game was. (0:33:12) Aislinn: So I went in pretty blind and it was an experience for sure. (0:33:17) Aislinn: It took me a while to get into because I was like, “What is happening?” (0:33:21) Kevin: Ha ha ha ha! (0:33:23) Aislinn: As I continued, I was like, “Okay, I’m starting to get it. (0:33:26) Aislinn: I’m starting to understand.” (0:33:27) Aislinn: And it was a very, very fun and fascinating and silly game. (0:33:33) Aislinn: And I did pretty much almost all of the endings except the ones like the, what was it, like (0:33:40) Aislinn: the baby one with like the dog and like the, you have to like stand up. (0:33:42) Kevin: Yeah, that’s correct. (0:33:44) Aislinn: You know that one, that one ending, we have to like be in the game for like three hours (0:33:47) Aislinn: or something. (0:33:49) Aislinn: I refused to do that one. (0:33:49) Kevin: Yeah, that’s correct. (0:33:50) Aislinn: I just watched it on YouTube. (0:33:51) Aislinn: I was like, “There’s no way I’m doing this.” (0:33:54) Aislinn: But just like that absurdity and like that confusion, I’m just like, “Yeah, no. (0:33:59) Aislinn: Okay. (0:33:59) Aislinn: I understand why people like this game now. (0:34:01) Aislinn: Like I have not experienced this in a game in a very, very, very long time.” (0:34:05) Aislinn: And it just took twists and turns and I was like, “Huh.” (0:34:09) Aislinn: And I was happy that I got to experience that before playing this game. (0:34:13) Aislinn: Cause I was curious if they were going to do things in this game that also (0:34:16) Aislinn: kind of caught me off guard and surprised me and that definitely did happen. (0:34:18) Kevin: All right, yep. (0:34:23) Aislinn: As a general notice, we’re not going to spoil like main plots of the game. (0:34:30) Aislinn: We may talk about a little bit of hint towards a little couple of things here (0:34:33) Aislinn: and there, but we’ll try our best to not spoil the game because both of us are (0:34:37) Aislinn: just about at the same point in the story and we both kind of share the sentiment (0:34:40) Aislinn: that we want y’all to check out the game and experience the not absurdity, but (0:34:47) Aislinn: just like the twists and turns of the game that also surprised me. (0:34:49) Kevin: Yep. (0:34:53) Aislinn: I was playing Wanderstop as I continued into it. (0:34:55) Kevin: Uh-huh. (0:34:56) Aislinn: Like it took me a while to get into Stanley Parable. (0:34:57) Aislinn: It took me a while to get into Wanderstop. (0:34:59) Aislinn: And as I continue, I was like start, I felt the same feeling that I felt when I (0:34:59) Kevin: Yeah. (0:35:03) Aislinn: was playing Wanderstop versus when I was playing Stanley Parable, but in just (0:35:04) Kevin: So. (0:35:07) Kevin: Mm-hmm. (0:35:08) Kevin: Right. (0:35:09) Kevin: Okay, so. (0:35:11) Kevin: Again, if someone who- so, that’s all great. (0:35:13) Kevin: And I appreciate you played it, ‘cause at least one of us can speak to it, but, um… (0:35:15) Aislinn: Well, you know about it too, you know. (0:35:19) Kevin: And so. (0:35:21) Kevin: Like. (0:35:22) Kevin: Maybe I don’t fully have heard everything, but the tone of Stanley Parable is almost… (0:35:29) Kevin: It’s very absurdist, very- almost adversarial in times, right? (0:35:32) Kevin: Like the narrator is constantly fighting against you, or you’re being sent down roads that are unpleasant, or so on and so forth, right? (0:35:39) Kevin: Like, it’s an enjoyable experience and a lot of fun, don’t get me, like, clearly, but… (0:35:45) Kevin: It is a very different vibe from a Cottagecore game, right? (0:35:49) Aislinn: Yes, very much so. (0:35:49) Kevin: So, when you- (0:35:51) Kevin: Right? (0:35:52) Kevin: And so when you hear they’re doing this- a tea shop simil- and they’re, you know, outright saying it’s gonna be a cozy game, like… (0:36:00) Kevin: What am I- what am I gonna do? I’m- I’m on guard, like, you’re the Stanley Parable people. (0:36:02) Aislinn: I know! (0:36:04) Kevin: I don’t believe a word you say, I am- (0:36:06) Aislinn: It literally says on the Steam page, “From the creator of the Stanley Parable.” (0:36:11) Aislinn: It’s the first line! (0:36:11) Kevin: Yep, so. (0:36:12) Kevin: Yup. (0:36:13) Kevin: So, I’m, you know, I’m coming into Wanderstop armed with a knife, just ready to fight back whatever this game’s- (0:36:19) Kevin: he’s gonna throw at me, right? (0:36:21) Kevin: Um… (0:36:22) Kevin: And, um… (0:36:24) Kevin: Well, I mean, shocker, it’s not the Stanley Parable, right? Like, some things carry over, like, it’s quality-quality writing. (0:36:31) Kevin: Excellent writing throughout, absolutely. (0:36:33) Kevin: There are some twists and turns, but it’s- it’s not in the insane, zany Stanley Parable way, it’s- it’s all, you know, in a narrative structure that- that fits it and whatnot. (0:36:46) Kevin: Um… (0:36:47) Kevin: I can confirm. (0:36:49) Kevin: I would call this a cozy game, but it’s a cozy game that sometimes pulls out a knife on you because sometimes I’m not ready for it. (0:36:54) Aislinn: Yes. (0:36:59) Aislinn: Yes. (0:37:00) Aislinn: Yes. (0:37:02) Kevin: I’ll get to that in a second, but the point being, there’s no secret endings, there’s no crazy insane tasks. (0:37:13) Kevin: And I tried, like one of the first things I did, like when you start the game you can run back into the force. I ran into the force like ten times. (0:37:19) Kevin: I was expecting something and nothing happened. I looked it up and there’s nothing, no insane hidden things like Stanley Parable, right? (0:37:30) Kevin: There’s some stuff, but nothing just completely insane. (0:37:36) Kevin: So yeah, it’s wild to see that they’re actually playing it straight. We’re getting a “cozy game”. (0:37:44) Kevin: So with that in mind, let’s talk about the premise, because I say (0:37:49) Kevin: “cozy” but there’s a big asterisk here because it is possibly one of the most “uncozy” openings to any game ever. (0:37:52) Aislinn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:37:57) Aislinn: But I loved it. I genuinely loved it. (0:37:57) Kevin: And yes, yep. So this is, and you’re not an avatar, you’re not a Stanley, a blankly avatar more or less, you are playing a character named Alta. (0:38:09) Kevin: She is a fighter, a warrior, goes into tournaments. The story starts with her description of her wanting to be the best. (0:38:18) Kevin: she’s undefeated for like three. (0:38:19) Kevin: and she just totally off her game so what does she do she seeks out help she (0:38:21) Aislinn: Very, very long time, but yeah. (0:38:45) Kevin: He seeks out Master Winters, a legendary warrior. (0:38:49) Kevin: Who she thinks can help her get a groove back. (0:38:52) Kevin: So, Alta runs through the forest, but then at some point, her body starts to fail her. (0:38:59) Kevin: She collapses, and she wakes up in this clearing in the forest, in front of a tea shop called “Wanderstup”. (0:39:06) Kevin: She meets the proprietor, a man named Boro, who is a fantastic… (0:39:10) Aislinn: Oh, he’s wonderful. I love him. (0:39:13) Kevin: He is the complete, I would say foil, like opposite foil to Alta. (0:39:16) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:39:17) Kevin: She is the most chills (0:39:19) Kevin: Zen just goes with the flow kind of guy. He’s happy. Good luck. He always cracking jokes and whatnot. Um (0:39:24) Aislinn: So sweet (0:39:26) Kevin: He’s a wonderful man. Um, he is the one who rescued Alta (0:39:30) Kevin: explains where she is and (0:39:33) Kevin: and basically suggests for her to take a break because (0:39:38) Kevin: One of the first thing she does is try to pick her her sword and she can’t (0:39:41) Kevin: Why meanwhile borrow can pick it up. No problem. And it’s just something (0:39:46) Kevin: Something going on with Arthur. She can’t fight. She can’t… (0:39:49) Kevin: She can’t lift her. (0:39:50) Kevin: if you run back into the forest like I did you just collapse and are sent back to the clearing so (0:39:54) Aislinn: I did too for context. I also did the same thing as you, because I was like, I just need to know. (0:39:57) Kevin: Yeah (0:39:59) Kevin: Yeah, it’s though it would be that (0:40:00) Aislinn: Especially again, coming off of Stanley Parable, I was like, I just need to know. (0:40:02) Kevin: it (0:40:04) Kevin: It would be the most Stanley peril thing in the world right the run out you get it ending (0:40:08) Kevin: like absolutely, so (0:40:10) Kevin: So yeah, so that um so with you know after repeated attempts if you do or you just give up (0:40:17) Kevin: Boro suggests to Ulta to just stay there (0:40:20) Kevin: and the tea shop to help out to try to rest and recover (0:40:23) Kevin: because she’s clearly suffering from over exhaustion. (0:40:27) Kevin: And and so that and already at this very 10 minute initial premise, (0:40:33) Kevin: the game is is is going at me like directly targeting me bullseye because. (0:40:39) Kevin: So, OK, you are a hard worker. (0:40:42) Kevin: You probably relate to this. (0:40:44) Kevin: I think a lot of people from our generation, how we were raised, like, (0:40:48) Kevin: you know, we a lot of people, (0:40:50) Kevin: we’re raising the very drive, like driven generation, right? (0:40:54) Kevin: Work hard, work hard, succeed, go to the next thing, right? (0:40:56) Aislinn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (0:40:57) Kevin: Be the top, be first in class, right? (0:40:59) Kevin: And and I personally like my I was in the warrior, (0:41:02) Kevin: but like I graduated salutatorian in high school. (0:41:05) Kevin: Like my academic pursuits were like everything to me. (0:41:08) Aislinn: Mm-hmm. (0:41:10) Kevin: So I can relate to that very much so. (0:41:13) Kevin: And then there comes a point when life just punches you in the face (0:41:17) Kevin: And you, you know, you just, you’re, you’re knocked out a few. (0:41:20) Kevin: Notches. So I get this and I’m already very not comfortable with how personal this story has gotten. (0:41:26) Aislinn: Yeah, yeah, I really felt the anger that Alta was feeling in the beginning, not to the fullest extent, because I’m just generally not a very like angry person. But like, what, like the underlying emotions of that anger, I genuinely felt because I definitely also feel that in the sense that as a person that considers myself very hardworking as well, to be working so hard, and then to be knocked down like that, it really, really, really sucks. I get that. (0:41:34) Kevin: Yeah. Right. (0:41:54) Kevin: Yep (0:41:56) Aislinn: I definitely really felt for her right off the bat. Like immediately, I was like, Oh, this is one of those games. Oh, no, my heart. I was like, Oh, no, they really did. (0:42:00) Kevin: Yeah (0:42:04) Kevin: Yup (0:42:10) Kevin: Yup, yup. Yup. They have set the stage (0:42:15) Kevin: and and and again in right there in contrast with Boro a wonderful truly cozy character and then also the most (0:42:24) Kevin: I have possibly seen in a cottage core game (0:42:28) Kevin: But (0:42:30) Kevin: Like for me that one of the bits that really resonated is just running through the forest right getting back up going back (0:42:36) Kevin: Like I relate to that very much so to to maybe not on well (0:42:42) Kevin: Okay, I’ll say someone on the healthy levels, but or it’s let’s say it’s affected me right like I’ve definitely (0:42:47) Aislinn: We all go through it. We’re human. We all go through it. (0:42:48) Kevin: Right, right. Yeah (0:42:51) Kevin: Um, and so being forced to stop. (0:42:54) Kevin: That out of your control, that’s something I wouldn’t handle. (0:42:57) Kevin: Well, I&am

Summary In this short episode, Kevin guides you through a relaxing journey to an imaginary beach. Engage your senses by imagining the warm sand, blue sky, gentle waves, and refreshing ocean breeze. Immerse yourself as you create a place of tranquility that you can return to anytime you need. Kevin Now that the summer season is upon us, we could all use a vacation. Join me now in a meditation vacation. Before we begin, find a comfortable position, either sitting or lying down. I invite you to close your eyes and take a deep breath in through your nose, feeling your lungs completely. Hold it for a moment and then slowly exhale through your mouth. Let's repeat this a few times. Breathe in through your nose, hold it, exhale through your mouth. Breathing in, hold, exhale. Continue breathing now in a comfortable rhythm. And let's go to the oceanside. Imagine yourself standing at the shore of a beautiful beach. Feel the warmth of the golden sand beneath your feet. Notice how the grains of sand move gently between your toes and around your heels. The sand is warm, comforting, and grounding. As you stand here, take in your surroundings. The sky above is a brilliant shade of blue, with gentle white clouds drifting by. The sun is shining brightly on your skin. Its warmth envelops your body, making you feel at ease. Take a moment to listen to the rhythmic sounds of the waves as they gently lap against the shore. The ocean stretches out before you as a deep blue and turquoise. The sound of the waves are soothing; a natural symphony that calms your mind. Feel that gentle breeze blowing in from the ocean, carrying with it the faint scent of salt and sea. This breeze cools your skin, bringing refreshment as it rustles the leaves of nearby palm trees. Now, begin to walk slowly along the shoreline. With each step, feel the cool, damp sand beneath your feet. As you walk, notice how every so often a gentle wave makes its way to the shore, washing your feet up to your ankles. The water is pleasant and cool, a perfect contrast to the warmth of the sun and sand. As you walk, turn your gaze to the horizon, where the sea meets the sky. Notice the subtle changes in color, the way the blues blend into a beautiful gradient green. A few seagulls soar overhead, their calls echoing softly in the distance, enhancing the peaceful soundscape. Now, arrive to a spot where you feel comfortable to sit down. Feel the sand mold to your body, supporting you as you relax. Take a deep breath in and exhale. Let go of any remaining tension in your body. Allow yourself to fully embrace this moment of tranquility. Imagine yourself lying back on the sand, looking up at the sky. Watch as the clouds drift by, slowly changing shapes and sizes. Feel the warmth of the sun on your skin, and let it soothe any lingering stress or worry. Stay here for a while. Let the sights, sounds, and sensations fill you with a sense of calm and relaxation. Know that you can return to this place anytime you need to find peace. When you're ready, slowly bring your awareness back to your physical surroundings. Start by moving your fingers and toes and gently stretch your body. And let's take one last deep breath in and as you exhale, open your eyes. Notice the physical space around you and what's changed inside of you. I hope you're feeling refreshed and rejuvenated. May you carry this sense of calm wherever you go.

Listen in as we team up with e-commerce maestro Kevin King to uncover some of his most closely guarded Amazon strategies and hacks, designed to both save you money and significantly boost your profits. In this first installment of a two-part series, Kevin generously shares insights from our new and latest version of the Freedom Ticket course, revealing the fundamentals of branding, product selection, and customer service—essential knowledge for any serious Amazon seller. Not only do we cover these basics, but we also tease some of Kevin's 'ninja' strategies, giving you a taste of the powerful tactics he discusses in the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind Program. Our conversation with Kevin continues as we tackle the world of Amazon PPC, emphasizing the crucial role of conversion rates in successful campaigns. We delve into the importance of understanding and optimizing your brand entity score and the innovative ways you can leverage tools like Amazon Comprehend within your Q&A sections to boost product rankings. The dialogue shifts to the evolving landscape of AI, examining its transformative effects on e-commerce. Kevin and I discuss how savvy sellers are utilizing AI tools to generate everything from compelling images to high-quality video content, and even crafting targeted ads with platforms like AdGen AI. Wrapping up this content-rich session, we focus on strategies to maximize conversions and enhance the overall customer experience on Amazon. Kevin shares practical tips on pricing strategies for attracting product reviews, the psychological impact of using an 'index image' to display product benefits, and the importance of establishing a unique guarantee that resonates with your audience. Moreover, Kevin illuminates the potential goldmine of including optional insurance charges in direct-to-consumer sales and the art of presentation in online retail. Tune in to hear how these tactics, along with high-quality visuals, can revolutionize your approach to online sales in the era of AI-driven e-commerce. Stay tuned for part 2! In episode 548 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Kevin discuss: 00:00 - Secret Amazon Hacks With Kevin King 04:41 - Helium 10 Elite Training Webinar Hacks 06:06 - Improving Amazon PPC and Brand Entity 09:41 - Maximizing Q&A for Keyword Ranking 13:53 - Answering Questions on Amazon for Ranking 17:03 - Maximizing Rewards With Business Credit Cards 21:38 - AI Tools for Amazon Sellers 26:05 - Maximizing Conversions With Product Indexing 26:49 - Maximizing Reviews With Dummy Listings 31:15 - Testing Guarantee Names With Helium 10 31:25 - Direct to Consumer $4 Insurance Strategy Transcript Bradley Sutton: Today is part one in a two-part series with Kevin King, who's gonna open up some of his top Amazon hacks and strategies with you guys for the first time in a while. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Bradley Sutton: Are you looking to learn how to sell on Amazon? The Freedom Ticket course made by Kevin King is one of the most popular courses ever created for Amazon sellers. It's got over 90 modules and 40 hours of detailed, step-by-step training to help get you started on your entrepreneurial journey. Now this course costs $997 but Helium 10 actually covers that cost of the course for any Helium 10 member. Find out why tens of thousands of students love this program by going to h10.me/freedom ticket. Don't forget that if you do sign up for a Helium 10 account, don't pay full price. Use our podcast discount code SSP10 to save 10% off for life. Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And every year, every two years, Kevin King comes on and opens up with our audience some of our best hacks. And now, for the first time ever, we're actually opening that up right here on the podcast. So we are going to go ahead and have a recap of some of Kevin's top strategies that he opened up with a live audience and let's see what you guys think. There are some killer ones here. This was supposed to only be an hour, so I thought I could fit into one episode, but hey, Kevin had too much fire, so we're actually splitting this up into two different episodes. Here's part one. Hope you guys enjoy it. Bradley Sutton: We're going to be revealing some things that a lot of Amazon sellers maybe have never even heard of, and these are things that are designed to help you save money and make money. Two of the things that maybe is the reason why you're even in this Amazon game in the first place right. Now, something that's important, though we're going to be talking about hacks, if you want to call them that, or kind of ninja strategies you see that little ninja logo on the bottom right there but selling on Amazon is not just about knowing the latest hacks and tricks. These definitely can help but remember, we are not trying to take away from the very valid point that you have to know about branding, how to pick products, how to do keyword research, how to do your accounting, advertising, customer service. The fundamentals are still very important and so we've got the Freedom Ticket Program if you guys are interested in that. So some of you might, after watching this, be like, wow, you know what? I am not of this level yet. And don't worry, you're still going to be able to get value out of this regardless of the level you are. But if you're like man, a lot of this stuff is over my head. He's using terminology I haven't heard of. Freedom Ticket Program might be for you. That is something that beginners all the way to advanced sellers can take as a refresher course on the fundamentals of Amazon and we have a brand new one - brand new version first time in over two years. The fourth version of Freedom Ticket is coming out imminently, just in a couple of weeks. So make sure to stay tuned for that. Anybody who is already a Helium 10 member, you guys will be able to get access to that. Bradley Sutton: Now, I mentioned that Kevin is one of the main trainers of our Helium 10 Elite Mastermind Program-that's the one that I've been a part of since, way before I even worked at Helium 10 and probably the most popular thing that's part of this mastermind is every month, Kevin gives his ninja hacks. He gives like usually seven ninja hacks, and these are quick, actionable nuggets of knowledge that can help you immensely in your Amazon business. I think a lot of these hacks that he gives every month are valuable to the majority of Amazon sellers, and with those hacks, two guest speakers join him on these trainings and they share the latest strategies that's working right now. And so that is the basis of what Kevin is going to be talking about today. Today, instead of this being behind the closed doors of the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind, which most of the year is closed, he's opening up some of his favorite ones from the past doors of the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind, which most of the year is closed. He's opening up some of his favorite ones from the past couple of months with you, so you're going to get a sneak peek, without actually being Helium 10 Elite members, on the kind of level of knowledge that being part of this mastermind can help you. Kevin King: Welcome everybody to this webinar. Like Bradley said, we do this every single month, usually on a Thursday. It varies on the exact Thursday, sometimes around the middle of the month, but we do a Helium 10 Elite training and what I want to do today is basically, like Bradley says, open up the doors and share some of this with you. So I've gone through from the last few months, some of my favorite stuff. Then I'm going to share that with you today, absolutely free. So some of it will be the ninja hacks, the first six or so things that I have seven ninja hacks. That's what I do every single month. So I have seven of them here for you today as well. I'm going to share six of them with you, and then the seventh one, which is the one Bradley just talked about, where someone made a million dollars selling over a five-day weekend. I'm going to show you that hack. You've got Easter coming up, Mother's Day coming up. It could make a huge difference for some of you. So that'll be at the very end, so make sure you stay to that. If you leave earlier, you're going to miss the number one hack that could make you a lot of money and I've taken a few slides from some of the presenters that have been in the Helium 10, the guests and a couple. Just a little section of some of what they presented, and you know, when they presented it, they presented it their way and in their voice. I'm just going to give you a quick little summary of those, just so you can get a taste of the kind of stuff that you find in Helium 10 Elite and share that with you. And you're going to find some actionable, good stuff today. Kevin: Number one this is something that you're going to fail at. You know, everybody's always like PPC. I hate PPC. It just drives me crazy. You know, and you're going to actually fail at PPC unless you fix this metric. This is something that nobody really talks about. Aaron Cordova is actually the one that shared this, and I think Destaney Wishon has talked about it and a few other people have talked about it. But if you don't actually take a look at this metric, your PPC is just going to drive you crazy and cost you through the nose. Kevin: What you want to do is you want to check the benchmark conversion rate for your brand. Now you're going to need brand registry. So if you don't have a trademark filed and you're not brand registered, you won't be able. What you want to be checking for is, if you're not at the bare minimum median conversion rate for your category, you're most likely going to be spinning through the nose on your PPC and it's just not going to work like you want it to be. Your ACOS is going to go and your TACOS are going to go through the roof. This video here is about a minute video. I'm going to play it. I'm going to have to hold up a little speaker next to my microphone because for some reason the Zoom is not letting the sound, but Aaron is going to explain this to you on this video. Here we go. Aaron: Basically, you find your conversion rate compared to everybody else. You go to campaign manager okay, campaigns. If you know how to get the campaign manager that you have other problems, campaign manager, you go here. Then you go to the side it's called insights and reporting. You're going to get a brand metrics okay, the brand metrics are awesome. Okay, in here you're going to pick your brand. You're going to get brand metrics, okay, the brand metrics are awesome. Aaron: In here, you're going to pick your brand. You're going to pick a category. In this case, I'm going to pick sports water bottles. Okay, select that guy and continue. Okay, then you're going to go in here and you're going to press this little view detailed metrics for your brand in this category. This is going to be horrible. I apologize, this is something we haven't really worked on very well. Check out this. Customer conversion rates your brand 4.9%, category median 10 and sometimes a lot of them, they show the category top okay. This is an embarrassment. This listing is an embarrassment. Okay, it is half as less than half as good as the median, which, when you're just at the medium, your product probably will not even be profitable because you're literally average, essentially horrible. But this is how you open the door to see if you're going to have a best seller at the very, very, very, very minimum. You got to be at the category median. Kevin: If you're not, at that category median then you need to adjust your listing. You need to fix your product page. You need to fix your product page. You need to fix your listing so that you can convert higher. Otherwise you're going to be fighting an uphill battle on everything. All right, that's number one. Number two this is how you can boost your brand entity score. How many of you ever heard of a brand entity score? I bet there's hardly any of you out there. There might be a couple of you have heard of a brand entity score. Does anybody know what the brand entity score is? Everybody has one on Amazon. Kevin: If you're a seller on Amazon and this affects your rank, it's a score that Amazon does. There's a lot of factors in the A9 that affect your rank. There's a ton of factors but the brand entity score plays a major role in how do you rank and you can affect this with your Q&A section. Amazon doesn't just look at your keywords. They don't just look at your title and your bullet points and your back-end keywords. They're reading everything. They're reading the Q&A section. They're now using AI to analyze your images. They're taking a lot of stuff into account when they're going to rank you and the Q&A section plays a major role. So if your Q&A section is fairly empty, that's a problem. You section is fairly empty, that's a problem. You need to get that full. That's one of the ways that some people, when they first start out and they have no reviews, they fill their Q&A section and you watch what you can do. You can rank a lot quicker. But this brand entity score is something you want to pay attention to. Kevin: How do you find it? There's something called Amazon Comprehend. Now this was shared by Matt over at ClearAds, originally on LinkedIn, and then he presented it in detail at my recent Billion Dollar Seller Summit and then we've shared it here as a hack. He's allowed me to share part of it, so I can't show the whole thing, but he allowed me to share part of it in my newsletter and here. Kevin: But it's called Amazon Comprehend and what you want to do, you can access this. There's a link there at the bottom. It's on AWS, on Amazon AWS, and it's an API. So it takes a little bit of programming know-how or how to get into this thing. It's not too bad but it's not like straightforward. Kevin: But with this Amazon Comprehend, once you get access to the API, what you can do is you can maximize your Q&As for keyword ranking. So the Q&A section on Amazon on your product. You want to maximize that for keyword ranking. So what you want to do is you want to remove the bias from search. So your description and all the content on your listing, they have a bias towards the seller of the product. So Amazon knows that you're optimizing your listing like you're making this the best and you're like saying that my product is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But Amazon's like how do we know that Kevin can say his product's the best, but maybe it's actually not so good despite what he says or whatever claims he's making? So we want to know from the customer what do they actually think? And let's take what they actually think and factor that into how we're going to rank this product. So they use the Q&A section and reviews both of those to do this. So if you don't have reviews and Q&A, you have a bias. Kevin: So what you want to do is you want to come in and gather questions that people might be asking about your product. So how do you do that? If you don't know, if you don't have legitimate questions and people haven't asked real questions yet, you can go out to tools like Ahrefs or Semrush. Those are big SEO tools so they have a free aspect and there's a paid aspect. Or you can go to answerthepublic.com. That's Neil Patel's company. Neil spoke at the Sell and Scale Summit Helium 10 did about a year and a half ago. But answer the public and you can just type in a keyword. You can type in you know, if you're selling dog bowls, slow-feed dog bowls, you can type slow-feed dog bowl into answerthepublic.com and it'll spit back. It goes out and reads Reddit and all these different forums and says these are the questions people are asking about slow-feed dog bowls. So you can take those as a seed and you can then use those and have someone ask those on your Amazon listing and then you, as the seller, answer them just to get some in there. But you're going to answer them in such a way that you want to make sure that you answer yes or no. Amazon is looking for yes or no answers. Big answers are great, but if you can start, if someone says, does this slow feed dog bowl keep my dog from having diarrhea, you want to try to phrase your answer in the form that you say yes or no and then you can say other stuff and put additional keywords in there for ranking and all this. Kevin: But they're looking for yes and no answers to questions and that's how they can guide. Like, if someone types in slow-feed dog bowl stomach problems or something they're going to know, yes, this one actually helps it. So you want to get multiple questions in there and then what you're going to do is you're going to use Amazon Comprehend. Before you put these questions in, you're going to actually and the answers, you're going to use it to actually get a score. So it's going to return the sentiment. So you're going to ask the question, show that, upload that into Comprehend, put the answer and then make sure you're getting a high percentage of confidence. Amazon Comprehend will give you a score back. It's on like a zero to one scale and it will give you a score back and you want a high level of confidence towards Amazon interpreting your response as positive or negative. Kevin: Now you can also do this and go look at your competition's reviews. You can gather it from there. You don't have to go to answer the public. You can get what people are asking on other people's products and use those and once you find the ones that have the high confidence. Then what you want to do, uh, which one? Like I said, is zero to one, but one is the highest. Those are the ones that you want to get onto your listing and those are the ones you want to put onto your listing. Kevin: So what you're going to do is you're going to these newly found questions that score high on the confidence, using Amazon Comprehend. You're going to go and actually, either maybe you have a buyer account that you buy stuff from Amazon you can ask the question or you can get your friends or family or someone to ask a question. Remember, this is not review, so it's okay. You can get someone to ask a question. Or, if you're on a Facebook group, say, can you ask this question? And then you go in there as the seller this is important, it gives you a little bit more weight and answer the questions. Whenever someone asks a question, Amazon pings. I don't know what the number is now three to five, ten people says, hey, do you know the answer to this question? But one of them is always the seller. You want to be the first to try to get in there and answer before someone else does and messes it up. They may answer too but you want to get yours in there as quick as you can, so you go in and answer it with that yes or no or whatever. When you ran it through Amazon Comprehend whatever it gave you as the highest score and this is going to help you rank on Amazon. It's a pretty cool little technique. Kevin: Here's another way. Everybody's always got cash flow problems. Money, money, money, money, money. How do I pay for this? How do I pay for that? Not everybody has a rich uncle or deep pockets. If you have decent credit, this is a way that you can actually extend your supplier payments for 60 days with zero interest. It's pretty cool. It's called the Amazon Plum Card, so if you have decent credit I don't know if this is available to people in other countries. I'm not sure what their exact rules are on what countries you have to live in to get this. Obviously, US citizens can get it, but Amazon has a whole bunch of, I mean sorry, American Express has a whole bunch of different cards. The Plum Card actually gives you discounts for paying early. So if you charge all your PPC or you charge whatever you want to charge suppliers. Whatever you want to charge, if you pay it early they'll give you a 1.5% discount. Or they have an option where you can extend it for 60 days and don't have to pay any interest as long as you pay the minimum due. You got to make a minimum payment. As long as you pay the minimum due, they'll give you 60 days to pay that. So this can be a great way. If you're trying to juggle some cash is to use this card. Kevin: A lot of you are saying, Kevin, that's all great, but my supplier doesn't take credit cards. How am I supposed to pay my supplier with credit cards? I always have to wire money or use Alibaba Escrow or something or whatever. Actually, there's a service called Melio. This one right here, Melio Payments that allows you to actually pay by credit card anybody, so you can pay suppliers. They do charge a fee, so it costs you about 2.5% to 3% roughly. So they do charge a fee because they get hit with processing fees but that fee is often less than what you would pay in interest or to get a loan, or origination fees or something else, and so that is an option, especially if you combine this. Kevin: If you're really cash flowing, you can go to bankrate.com and you can do a search for 0% interest credit cards and there's a lot of credit cards that have 12, 15, 18 months of 0% interest. So if you go there and actually apply for one of those credit cards, you have decent credit. You can get a 0% interest credit card that you can ride out for a while, while you're growing your business and use Melio payments to pay it. You're basically paying a 3% fee, which is basically a 3% interest, which is dirt-cheap in today's world. Now another credit card you might want to consider, if you're already selling and you're running a lot of PPC especially, is the Amex Business Gold Card. This is not the regular gold card, not the consumer gold card. It has to be the business gold card but it gives you 4x points on all your PPC spend up to $150,000 per card. So you can get 600,000 points on one single card in a year. Kevin: And I know one of the guys that comes to one of my events, the Billion Dollar Seller Summit. He actually, and I'm not sure if he's in Helium 10 Elite or not, but he has like 10 of these cards. He lives in Brazil and he cycles through them, so as soon as one hits that $150,000 on his PPC spin, he just swaps out the card. He says he's flown first class everywhere in the world and hasn't paid for a plane ticket in years and flying first class with him, his wife, his family, that this card is an amazing card for that. So there's different credit cards for different purposes but those are two that you might want to consider and you can transfer these to different airlines. You can transfer them to hotels. Kevin: You know Bradley is always going out to the, he's always doing the Maldives honeymoon strategy. He's been out to the Maldives three or four times. A lot of you may not realize that's not Helium 10 sending him out there. They're not saying man Bradley, good job, dude, here's a free trip to the Maldives. No, he's using his miles and his points to go out there on his own and do this stuff for you. But this is one of the ways he knows how to do this. There's another site called points.me where you can see what's the best place to transfer stuff. Kevin: There's a ton of stuff around this but I just want to show you this. Really cool. We could talk about this for hours of all kinds of cool stuff you can do, but I just want to show you these really quick. Now here's some AI. AI is the hot thing right now. Everybody's AI, this AI, that. There's some stuff that everybody's just sticking AI on the end of everything, even if it's not really AI. But I want to show you 11 really cool tools. There's a lot more but these are just 11 tools that you may find useful in selling e-commerce, that may come in useful in helping you with your images or helping you with research, or helping you with a few different things. Before I do that, if you have not seen this, this is from Sora, S-O-R-A, and this is video. It's not publicly available yet, but karavideo.ai has a wait list right now and they're gonna be the first to offer this. Kevin: This is studio level quality imagery on by video by prompting. So you type in a text prompt, you type in a paragraph, say I want a video like this and it will make the video up to I think it's 30 or 45 seconds right now, maybe up to. It's going to get to where it can do much longer videos and entire movies, but it's amazing. I'm going to play this for you. There's no sound on this, so I'm going to play this for you. Kevin: But this video here of these mammoths walking and these people walking through a Tokyo with the cherry blossoms, this little animation here. This was all done in minutes by typing in a prompt. So, like those mammoths, this was the prompt that was used. That's the exact prompt. Several giant woolly mammoths this was the prompt that was used. That's the exact prompt. Several giant woolly mammoths approached, treading through a snowy meadow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what made that video. Kevin: In fact, there's movie producers now that are saying this is going to change everything. We're going to be able to do entire movies without movie studios. It's crazy. You're going to be able to do product videos and lifestyle stuff and all kinds of crazy stuff with it. So keep your eyes on this, and I would recommend you get on the list at karavideo.ai so when this opens up, you get some of the first access to it. They're a little bit worried about how authentic this is right now, so they're putting in some safeguards, but it's really cool technology. Kevin: Now, notice there was no sound on this one, because this doesn't make the sound, it just makes the video. So you need sound. So what has happened is ElevenLabs has a tool that will take a quiet video for example, that mammoth and it will analyze what's in the video and it will make the sound of, like the mammoths crunching the snow or making their horns their sound, you know. Whatever. This is an example of a video I'm about to play here. It may be a little bit hard to hear I'm going to hold the speaker up to it of a video I'm about to play here. It's maybe a little bit hard to hear, I'm going to hold the speaker up to it, but this video was made with a prompt, silent. And then this ElevenLabs went in, analyzed the video, what's in the video, and added all the sound effects using AI in a matter of minutes. So let me. AI audio: In a place beyond imagination, where the horizon kisses the heavens. One man dares to journey where few have ventured. Armed with nothing but his wit and an unyielding spirit, he seeks the answers to mysteries that lie beyond the stars. Kevin: This is pretty cool stuff. You're going to be able to do some amazing stuff with your products, with your advertising, with everything. This is coming and it's important to stay on the cutting edge of this, because if you're first mover in a lot of this stuff, you're going to have major, major advantages over your competition. Now there's more to this, though. It even gets cooler. You can actually now do ads with AI. These ads will go out and this adgen.ai will actually go to your Shopify site. It will go to your Amazon listing. You can put in the URL of your Amazon listing and it will create ads formatted perfectly for Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, everywhere, automatically based on that. Then you can do some modifications, but it's really cool. So you can give it a brand name, you can give it a URL, you can give it a subject and it will automatically create the ads for you. This is another one Pika Art which will take a still photo and add animation to it, and then you can automatically change it. You can just type in the background and it automatically changes. It's called pika.art. You can change your top. Here you have a monkey. Let's put some sunglasses on him. You can do this. You can just drop in a still image that doesn't move and you can add movement to it. It's really cool where this stuff is going. This is a prompt. You can take a screenshot of this. I'm not going to go through the whole thing or you'll get this in the replay. They'll show you actually how to use peak art to add movement, which can actually dramatically increase your engagement rate on social media or any kind of advertising you do. It's amazing stuff. There's crazy stuff that's out there. Kevin: Now some additional tools, Chad Rubin went through a bunch of AI tools and he said these are some of the ones that he considers to be the god mode of AI frameworks. I'm just going to buzz through them really quick. You can take notes and go check them out later. One is called booth.ai. It generates studio-quality product photos in minutes, so you don't even need a photographer anymore. Another one called CopyMonkey. This optimizes your Amazon listing. There's others like Shoelix, and there's quite a few out there that will do this, but CopyMonkey is one you might want to check out. There's ReviewScout, which, if you're a reseller or a wholesaler, it'll give you deep insights into the competition and buyer box trends for wholesalers or resellers. There's one called MContent, which also helps you do all kinds of great imagery change out backgrounds, put your product in special scenes. They just introduced some new cool tools just this week, so MContent is really good. He's presented on the Helium 10 Elite as well. Kevin: DoMyShoot's another one that will help you do all your visual content. So basically it's AI as your photographer. Instead of spending $5,000 to take everybody to the beach, you can upload your product and put it in any kind of scene that you want. frequently.ai is another one that's really, really good. Another that has all kinds of answers to all kinds of questions. Another one is the valky.ai, or some people know it as Shoelix. That one's another one that's really popular. So these are all some cool Amazon or AI tools for Amazon sellers. Another one is iphoto.ai will help you create your listing images where you can upload your product and drop it into all kinds of scenes, modify it, do testing on different images and different backgrounds. It's really really cool. So those are some of the AI tools that are out there. Kevin: The number five here. This is from Ayana at YLT Translations. She presented on the Helium 10 Elite and she said you know, this is a cool little trick on how you can get more reviews. So you have to be selling in additional marketplaces. If you're just selling in the US marketplace, this won't work. But if you're set up to sell in other marketplaces, you know Amazon combines the listings. When you don't have a lot of combines the reviews, I'm sorry. When you don't have a lot of combines the reviews, I'm sorry when you don't have a lot of listings from other marketplaces. So what she's saying is you can create dummy ASINs and of your target products and then list them in all the different marketplaces. Now someone buys it, that's okay, but you can also create dummy ASINs and then what you do is you and each one of those make sure they're in all the same browse mode. She has the steps here make sure that the localized listing is live, at least the tile and some bullet points, so you put a legitimate you know it's localized and it's in the right language and it's written right and put a really low price so that viners don't get hit, because most people don't realize that sometimes, when your price is high, vine reviewers don't take your product even though they might want it, because once they hit $600, they have to pay taxes on it. Kevin: So a lot of people don't realize that in the United States that anything over $600 in gifts, they get a 1099 from Amazon at the end of the year. So if they got $10,000 worth of products at retail price and they then have to pay, Amazon says this is what we gave you in gifts. It's just like winning. If you went to the Price is Right or a game show or Jeopardy or something, you have to pay taxes on those winnings. Or if you went in Vegas over $10,000, you got to pay taxes. So this is a lot of times, they won't take your product if it's a $49 product because they're like ah, that's just going to add to my taxes. But if it's temporarily $9.95 while you're getting the vine reviews and then you put it back at $49.95 later, they might take it. So you want local low pricing and then you go out and you get. Kevin: You do vine reviews everywhere and then they'll all combine together. If you do them in multiple marketplaces and if you really get do this right, you can get up to 2,400 different ones. And some of the ways you can do these. You know these quote-unquote dummy listings that she's got on the right-hand side there. You just do different colors of a product. That's kind of like a dummy listing. It's like, okay, I have azure, I have a cobalt, I have a navy, a sapphire sky teal, and then you could have your supplier make just a couple of each of these colors and then you send those out. This is a really cool way to actually get your reviews up and then, once you get enough reviews in a marketplace, it wants to keep sharing these. It'll just share that marketplace usually, but this is a way that you can get a running start. It's a pretty cool little technique. Kevin: This is from Matt Koston. He presented a couple months ago on Helium 10 Elite and this is one of his tricks. That he showed is this is how you can convert like crazy with what he called an index image. This he calls it the. It's the image in your listing that will be the top reasons why your product is the best. This is not your main photo. This is not your photo number one. This is what he calls this photo number two, and it's an index of your products. Is why I think it's why he calls it the index damage, and what he says is you need to number the benefits. A lot of people are using call-outs, they use infographics but they don't number them. He runs a company that does testing and split testing and all kinds of stuff and he says that they've tested this to the end of the earth and back and this is what works. So you want to actually have numbers like this. So something like this should be your second image the five reasons you love, or the seven reasons, or the three reasons. Kevin: Odd numbers are always better than even numbers. Three, five or seven or nine always work the best. Why do I do seven ninja hacks every month for Helium 10 Elite? Seven is a magic number when it comes to psychology. But here he's got the five and look, there's numbers. That's important. He just doesn't list them. People like order and when they see numbers, their mind can sort it and they can read it quickly and it makes sense to them. So the numbering system here is critical, not just the fact that he put the main point, the main benefit and capital, and then explained it in bold and a little bit larger and then explained everything else below it in light blue. But he's got these numbers. That's the critical thing is numbering it. Kevin: And then you notice here. On the third one, there's a US flag. US flags for Americans can up your conversion rate dramatically. You don't have to have a product that was made in the USA. You can say you're a USA company. Now, if you're going to say it's made in the USA and put a flag, it needs to be made in the USA, don't lie. You can say we're a small US company and you can have a flag. Kevin: Now, I see people sometimes make mistakes where they put a flag and they put it inside their graphics or their photos and they don't put it in red, white and blue. They put it in green or they put it in some other color. Never, ever, do that. The flag always needs to be in red, white and blue and look like an American flag. Don't change the colors on it to make it fit the graphic it needs to look because that instantly says a message. But these little things can convert really really well for you. Kevin: It also says add a golden guarantee. Amazon automatically guarantees if they don't like the product they can return it. But you want a golden guarantee. You almost want to name it. Give it some sort of crazy name the PX22G guarantee or something. Don't just say it's money back guarantee or 100% money back or satisfaction guarantee. That's all just common. Give it some sort of crazy name - the dog barker, the tail wagging guarantee or something like that. The outlandish almost ridiculous in your guarantee name. So here's some examples 100%, no mosquito bites guarantee. Bottom of the bottle guarantee, lifetime never lost guarantee. Give it some sort of name like that, not just money back or your satisfaction guarantee or some general thing. Give it a name. It resonates with people and will help your conversions. Like I said here, the generic like 30 money-back guarantee gets just lost in the noise. Test your guarantee names too. You can use Helium 10 to do that. There's other tools out there, but Helium 10 has it built in. Where you can, actually they have a relationship with PickFu but you can do it through Helium 10 and test the guarantee names as well. The number of sales you make is far higher than the people who will take advantage of the guarantee. So don't worry about a guarantee. Kevin: I have something in one of my things I do direct to consumer and I have a $4 insurance charge. It's optional but it's automatically on the order form. They have to cross it out. If they don't want it, it fills it in, but then they cross it out and about 30% or 40% of the people pay that $4. And every year, if I send out 5,000 orders, I might have three people take me up on it. And so, out of 5,000 orders, if 40% take it, that's 2,000 people that pay me $4. That's eight grand and I had to replace three orders. There's big money in this. So don't worry about a lot of people taking advantage of it. Some will. Kevin: There's also something called the squeezed benefit test. You take a look on the left. This is the original graphic that someone had. Has all the bullet points. This is what you normally see and what most of you're probably doing. But look at the one on the right same type of stuff but much easier to read, numbered, organized with icons. This converts people on Amazon buy photos, they don't buy products. I think Perry Belcher originally said that they buy photos, they don't buy products. So your photos are crucial to your conversion and they're going to become even more crucial with AI. This is the test. And look at the difference, even of people, it's 76%. That's 100% certainty that this is a much better option. So this is a cool little tactic that you can do.

Kev and Jonnie talk about a number of demos they have tried recently. Timings 00:00:12: Theme Tune 00:00:43: Intro 00:02:46: Feedback 00:07:29: What Have We Been Up To 00:25:41: News 00:33:12: Demo Bonanza 00:33:21: Lightyear Frontier 00:43:04: Southfield 00:50:19: Rusty’s Retirement 00:57:36: Mika And The Witch’s Mountain 01:04:11: Outro Links Rusty’s Retirement Vertical Moment Ikonei Island Info Update Kynseed Big Build Update Farming Simulator 23 Content Update #23 Outbound Steam Page Outbound Kickstarter Page Lightyear Frontier Southfield Rusty’s Retirement Mika and the Witch’s Mountain Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:00) Al: Just before we get into this week’s episode, I need to apologize. We had a few audio issues in this episode, so yeah, sorry for that. We’ll get them sorted for next time. (0:00:44) Kevin: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season my name is Kevin, and I’m joined by our beautiful co-host (0:00:55) Kevin: There you go and today we’re here to talk about the cottagecore games whoo and all that (0:01:03) Kevin: More specifically actually we have a sampling platter of (0:01:08) Kevin: cottagecore games today because we (0:01:11) Kevin: Went out and tried some demos (0:01:14) Kevin: You know we’re gonna have I think we played with two each (0:01:20) Kevin: So there’s gonna be a yeah a good just good amount of discussion on different games (0:01:26) Kevin: But before we get into all of that (0:01:30) Kevin: Transcripts are available in the show notes and on the website as per the always (0:01:35) Kevin: And of course we’re going to get to the news and all that stuff as usual (0:01:43) Kevin: Also, oh, we should note… (0:01:44) Kevin: that Al is here in America, where I am, so, you know, I’m looking forward to hearing his misadventures. (0:01:52) Kevin: I’m just assuming he’s just smothered in burgers right now, as is the tradition. (0:02:01) Jonnie: I assume he’s smothered in tipping eggs. (0:02:05) Kevin: Oh man, yeah that’d be good, he’s just not gonna go to any restaurants, he’s gonna stick (0:02:14) Jonnie: Honestly, it would so put me off of having to travel to America is like, ‘cause A, tipping is stupid, and B, the anxiety of it, I’m just like, “Nah.” (0:02:22) Jonnie: I don’t need to deal with that. (0:02:22) Kevin: See, look, the easiest way to do it, a pro tip for all, but, well, okay, sure. (0:02:26) Jonnie: It’s not Visit America. (0:02:30) Kevin: If you are, somehow, find yourself visiting America, the pro tip is just do the credit card if you can, because then you just write it in, and nobody has to see, nobody has to know, and it’s all there. (0:02:44) Kevin: And you’ll never see them again, so, you know, it’s fine. (0:02:46) Kevin: Okay. (0:02:47) Kevin: Let’s see. (0:02:48) Kevin: stuff though, um, we actually have some feedback? (0:02:53) Jonnie: - Yeah, some feedback from, or I guess a correction from, (0:02:56) Jonnie: or corrections were the wrong thing. (0:02:57) Jonnie: Something that Al and I missed last week when we covered “Turn Up the Boy Robs a Bank” (0:03:03) Jonnie: is that there are actually accessibility options. (0:03:07) Jonnie: Neither of us picked up that those were in there and it changes quite significantly, (0:03:13) Jonnie: I think some of my criticism of the game. (0:03:17) Jonnie: So I can’t remember all of the accessibility options off the top of my head, (0:03:20) Jonnie: but I talked a lot about how I really hated the way (0:03:24) Jonnie: that gaming works in the game. (0:03:25) Jonnie: And one of the accessibility options is automatic aiming, (0:03:28) Jonnie: which I think is a really good accessibility option for this game. (0:03:29) Kevin: Yeah, oh that is a good (0:03:32) Jonnie: If you’re into the “Turn Up the Boy” sort of law, I guess, (0:03:37) Jonnie: and want to experience it, (0:03:38) Jonnie: like it feels like a good option for that. (0:03:41) Jonnie: So just want to highlight that that’s something that we missed and it’s a cool thing that they have. (0:03:42) Kevin: Yeah (0:03:47) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely cuz like you mentioned the calm I I’m the claim I didn’t play turn of boy myself, but my brother played and I witnessed most of it (0:03:56) Kevin: the combat is the weaker portion, right the the highlights the humor and the (0:04:03) Kevin: You know the chaoticness going on so kind of sidestepping that that was a good call (0:04:09) Kevin: Yeah, so good good stuff turn it boy good on you first (0:04:14) Jonnie: Yeah, and the other thing that we’ve got to talk about, so Elle and I talked about this last week, Kiv, but it would be sacrilegious to not get your take on what you think about wildflowers being on the April 1st. (0:04:27) Kevin: Well, first, my reaction, and I think I put it in the slash, is 3 and a half grand! (0:04:35) Kevin: Oh my goodness, I had no idea, like, oh my gosh, I know Apple products are pricey/overpriced, but holy moly. (0:04:44) Kevin: Now, I didn’t, I have to see the, what the farming looked like. (0:04:50) Kevin: Looks like it’s an interesting way of doing it, but I think all in all that sounds good. (0:04:55) Kevin: It’s, it’s so weird though because like, Wildflowers is very narrative/character driven, right? (0:05:05) Kevin: Which isn’t generally speaking the focus in a first-person/VR type game, but like you guys said, it, (0:05:12) Jonnie: So have you seen have you seen how the implementation? (0:05:16) Kevin: here, let me look, I’m gonna look it up right now, but I mean, overall though, I think it’s (0:05:20) Kevin: good to do it. I do think VR/augmented reality is a good idea overall. I think we’ll get there eventually, and so, you know, each baby step like this in different formats or different ways is, (0:05:42) Jonnie: Yeah, because I guess how it works is it’s less first person and it’s more like having it up on a screen, you know, kind of like one of the many screens that you can place around with the (0:05:50) Kevin: Right. Okay. That’s what the farming looks like. Okay. All right. Yeah, that’s what it is. Okay, that is (0:05:51) Jonnie: Apple Vision Pro and you can… (0:06:01) Kevin: It looks pretty cool. Um, I (0:06:05) Kevin: like the (0:06:07) Kevin: Yeah, no the farming bit look yeah, obviously like putting it in a (0:06:13) Kevin: On a screen like that is the way to go (0:06:16) Kevin: And the farming having the plots because it’s very the (0:06:21) Kevin: simple and very square slash grid like right so I think this is a good one for that (0:06:28) Kevin: because it’d be so easy to control you like it there’s not a lot of (0:06:34) Kevin: difficulties in in managing the farming aspect so that’s cool um and on top of that eventually you can automate some of that stuff so you can just skip it out right um but yeah now that looks uh Looks great. It’s I’m so happy (0:06:51) Kevin: Wildflowers is getting a second third win whatever whatever win we’re at (0:06:56) Kevin: With the the small DLC update and now this vision pro stuff (0:07:01) Kevin: I’m curious how much longer they’re gonna keep up the development (0:07:05) Kevin: But I’m here (0:07:08) Kevin: You know, I’m here for the long haul. I haven’t fired it up in a while immediately But I’ll wait till they announce maybe they’re done with everything and then see what’s going on (0:07:18) Kevin: All right (0:07:20) Kevin: Okay, so that’s that some of the (0:07:23) Kevin: House cleaning with the tend to from last episode, but now let’s talk about what we’ve been up to more recently Johnny I’ll let you go first. What have you been up to? (0:07:31) Jonnie: What have I been up to? (0:07:34) Jonnie: Because there’s been a lot of demos and trying out a lot of stuff, I feel like I’ve sort of reverted back to some comfy kind of nostalgia games in the past week. (0:07:43) Jonnie: I’ve been playing Diablo 4, partly because it’s something that I can play with friends and I moved countries recently, so it’s a nice game to do that. (0:07:54) Jonnie: But maybe more funnily, the reason we started playing Diablo 4 is because Diablo 4 has been the news a lot in the last week because they’ve been doing (0:08:01) Jonnie: very expensive cosmetic items that has generated a lot of media attention and I keep seeing headlines like Diablo 4 enters microtransaction hell and it’s silly things right like your town portal can change colour and I think it’s like you know 50 bucks or whatever for that cosmetic and it’s not entirely fair framing because I believe it comes with some of their (0:08:27) Jonnie: Premium or quite a bit of their premium currency as well (0:08:31) Jonnie: So you can can purchase other things but the thing that’s really kind of striking to me is the (0:08:38) Jonnie: The narrative around this is kind of describing it like it’s a bad thing look, if there are people out there that want to pay $50 for a (0:08:48) Jonnie: Cosmetic item that has like it’s not even on your character as you’re running around playing the game It’s literally the thing that you use to get to and from (0:08:56) Jonnie: locations. It’s not that significant in the game. And if people want to spend that amount… (0:09:01) Jonnie: for that cosmetic and that enables the developer. And I’m putting aside who the developer is and all of those sorts of things because I don’t really want to get into that discussion. But if this extends the life of the game and they’re doing seasonal gameplay and… (0:09:13) Kevin: What’s there to discuss about Activision Blizzard? (0:09:17) Jonnie: Yeah, let’s just avoid that one altogether. But if people want to pay a lot for those sort of things, and it means I as a casual player jumping in feel no need to spend money on any of that and it means I can keep investing in (0:09:31) Jonnie: developing new content for these games then great like I feel as a just for the campaign portion of the game it is fully justified as a full press game I had a lot of fun playing the campaign and if this is how they want to monetize the long life of the game go for it like the game is still very fun I have a good time of the I have a good time playing with friends I just find a lot of the narrative around ongoing monetization if we accept that that is part of the reality of games now this is (0:10:01) Jonnie: probably the least predatory way to do (0:10:04) Kevin: Oh absolutely. My two questions are, one, all the news I heard about what little I did was about the cosmetic stuff, but is there any stuff that boosts gameplay or effects mechanics or anything like that? Okay. Okay. Yeah. (0:10:22) Jonnie: no no so so it’s all yeah it’s all purchasable cosmetics yeah none of it really affects gameplay (0:10:34) Kevin: Okay, well then that’s yeah, all right who cares then also can you earn premium currency by playing or do you just have? (0:10:44) Jonnie: uh I feel like you can but I also feel like you earn even and I might be wrong um but I feel like even if you do earn premium currency it’s at a rate that’s so slow that you might as well not earn it at all because you would have to like I don’t know how you would actually save up enough of it to purchase anything uh but I can’t remember if that premium currency is actually locked behind um like a paid season pass thing so I can’t remember if it’s locked behind (0:11:04) Kevin: It’s a word. (0:11:14) Jonnie: a slightly different version of a paywall or if those are some of the the free tiers (0:11:22) Kevin: Right. Okay. Well, they, uh, like you said, who cares, right? It’s cosmetic. (0:11:26) Kevin: So whatever. (0:11:27) Jonnie: Exactly (0:11:29) Jonnie: And maybe i’m just like slightly biased, you know, because you and I both play marvel snap and that’s their approach as well Right you you generally you don’t pay to unlock cards Well, you cannot do like spending money on the game does increase the rate that you unlock cards somewhat, but not (0:11:34) Kevin: Yeah. (0:11:44) Kevin: Right, but it’s not explicitly you don’t pay money for a card exactly. It’s generally speaking just a (0:11:53) Kevin: cosmetic that happens to get you resources that can help you generate new parts, but (0:11:59) Kevin: But yeah, no, no. Yeah, I understand (0:12:04) Kevin: I guess like I think about you know Marvel snap is actually a very apt comparison because there’s (0:12:10) Kevin: Explicitly the price tag a hundred dollar bundles. I think there’s one going (0:12:13) Jonnie: Mm-hmm, yep. (0:12:14) Kevin: on right now. And yeah it doesn’t bother me like sometimes it’s a really cool one that I kind of wish I had but it’s not the end of the world there’s plenty the game is still fun doesn’t affect it and there’s plenty of other cool cosmetics I can earn but yeah no I get you um good yeah all right good way of doing it I (0:12:39) Jonnie: Yeah, and and like so to kind of come back to the actual game you know, I’m having a lot of fun with Diablo as just a thing to jump on with friends and kill a bunch of stuff and (0:12:48) Jonnie: You know have a good time. And I think the thing that I really appreciate about Diablo 4 is level scaling So the they have level scaling so it doesn’t matter what level you are. You can play with your friends and it’s a really nice version (0:13:03) Jonnie: Yeah, so you can play with your friends like when we’re playing, you know, one of our friends was level 90 I think I was the lowest level, I was like. (0:13:09) Jonnie: At level 90, he was significantly more powerful than I was even though the mobs were sort of scaled for us, as you would expect. (0:13:21) Jonnie: But I think that’s kind of fine, right? (0:13:23) Jonnie: We were able to sort of play together and not have it be where I wasn’t doing anything, but he was also able to enjoy the fact that he had put a lot more time and effort into building a more powerful character. (0:13:37) Jonnie: I thought it’s it’s a really nice (0:13:42) Kevin: That’s that’s pretty impressive because that’s a very difficult balancing act to do (0:13:47) Jonnie: Yeah. (0:13:51) Jonnie: Yeah, and then the other thing I’ve been dipping my toe back into is Old School RuneScape. (0:13:56) Jonnie: I played Old School RuneScape when it was just RuneScape, and I love dipping my toe back into it every once in a while. (0:14:00) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:14:05) Jonnie: It’s such a goofy game. I love it. (0:14:06) Kevin: Oh man. (0:14:10) Kevin: It’s such a very distinct flavor. (0:14:13) Kevin: I was actually thinking about dipping back in just last week. (0:14:17) Kevin: I don’t remember why, but I might do that then. (0:14:20) Jonnie: Do it, Kiv. (0:14:22) Jonnie: Send me your username and I will add you and we can see each other online and oh my god, okay. (0:14:26) Kevin: Yeah. (0:14:27) Jonnie: I don’t know that you were an old-school RuneScape person, but please, please. (0:14:30) Kevin: Yeah, the middle, that was definitive middle school gaming. (0:14:37) Kevin: Yeah, what’d you do in the computer lab when you had the time or nobody caught you or whatever? (0:14:37) Jonnie: Exactly, yep, that was that was the A draw. (0:14:46) Jonnie: Oh, well maybe at some point we should do a greenhouse episode on Old School. (0:14:47) Kevin: Yeah, good stuff. (0:14:50) Kevin: I was thinking that I was about to say that stay tuned for Stay tuned for our RuneScape greenhouse! (0:14:56) Jonnie: Oh, yes. (0:14:58) Jonnie: Great. (0:14:59) Jonnie: Cool, alright, we’ll leave that one there then. (0:15:02) Kevin: I have a few things to talk about in the next episode of the M1C, but the M1C will be in the next episode of the M1C, but the M1C will be in the next episode of the M1C. (0:15:04) Jonnie: Kip, what have you been playing? (0:15:08) Kevin: Okay, it’s been a minute since I’ve been on, so I’ve got a few things. Actually, all the stuff kind of was in the last week. (0:15:16) Kevin: I’ve been playing a lot of games, I guess. (0:15:18) Kevin: First, shout out to Rainbow Road Radio, the Mario podcast host with mutual friend Alex. (0:15:24) Kevin: We covered Mario vs Donkey Kong, which came out just yesterday, well, from the time of M1C. (0:15:30) Kevin: I did not purchase the game myself, Alex did, but I played the demo. (0:15:36) Kevin: Have you played any of the Mario vs Donkey Kong games at all, Jonny? (0:15:40) Jonnie: I don’t even think I’ve ever heard of a Mario vs Donkey Kong game. (0:15:46) Kevin: Okay. So, it is, so right, the original Donkey Kong arcade game, right? The debut of both Mario and Donkey Kong. (0:15:56) Kevin: If they reinvented re-imag- I won’t even say that. (0:16:00) Kevin: This game was originally on the Game Boy Advance. They did a remake for the Switch, that’s what we discussed. (0:16:09) Kevin: It is a puzzle kind of platformer game. Essentially, you’re presented with a level with platforms and obstacles like spike pits, jumps you have to make, switches, things like that. (0:16:30) Kevin: It’s not a horizontal scrolling type level like standard mario’s, it’s just one screen. (0:16:38) Kevin: And you have to figure out the puzzle of how do I get to the key, what order do I have to clear these obstacles or flip these switches, and then you get the key to the door. (0:16:50) Kevin: And that’s kind of the gist of the gameplay. It’s fairly straightforward, but they add a lot of depth, they add a lot of obstacles and stuff like that. (0:16:58) Kevin: Um, the Switch Remake specifically… (0:17:00) Kevin: It’s very nice presentation (0:17:04) Kevin: The the game is the premise is centered around these little toys called mini marios (0:17:11) Kevin: So a lot of the games (0:17:13) Kevin: Enemies and things like that are toy versions of Mario enemies very cute very reminiscent of Link’s Awakening remake art style (0:17:22) Kevin: very colorful and fun I enjoyed the demo Alex enjoyed the game that he played thus far (0:17:30) Kevin: Yeah, check that out. That was that’s a fun one (0:17:34) Jonnie: Nice. I might have to check that out. I love a puzzle. (0:17:34) Kevin: aside from that (0:17:38) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s great and they added new stuff for the remake right so it’s got a substantial amount (0:17:45) Kevin: It’s not just a short GBA (0:17:49) Kevin: Venture Yeah, I definitely recommend at least people should check out the the trailers and stuff just to see how the cute little mini marios are (0:17:59) Jonnie: or people should check out rich road radio rainbow road radio (0:18:00) Kevin: And (0:18:04) Kevin: That your rainbow Road radio, that’s correct. No, don’t worry. I’ll be plugging that later (0:18:12) Kevin: Aside from that Disney speedstorm have you heard of this one Johnny? (0:18:16) Jonnie: I have not heard of this. (0:18:19) Kevin: Okay, it is a (0:18:22) Kevin: Just came out last year. I believe it is Disney’s version of Mario Kart. Um, it’s part racing game with Disney (0:18:30) Kevin: here’s okay, so (0:18:33) Kevin: it’s (0:18:35) Kevin: It I’m two ways about it because on the one hand the actual racing is fantastic It’s a strong Mario Kart type game the if you’re a big fan of Disney, you’ll get even more enjoyment out of it (0:18:49) Kevin: With the music tracks the characters pretty wide variety of characters. They have Pixar and Disney, but here’s the kicker (0:18:57) Kevin: It’s free to play which do hey, that’s cool. You don’t spend money (0:19:00) Kevin: But it is slathered with loot boxes, season pass, microtransactions, just filled to the brim with it. (0:19:13) Kevin: And it’s not prohibitive, but you do have to know how to invest your resources. (0:19:23) Kevin: Because you get plenty of resources, basically the kicker is you have to level up your characters, (0:19:28) Kevin: racers that affects their stats and that actually (0:19:31) Kevin: does affect your performance in races, including the single player. (0:19:35) Kevin: In fact, I would say primarily the single player, which is what I’ve been playing. (0:19:41) Kevin: And so getting the resources is the challenge. (0:19:44) Kevin: You have to win certain races, do certain objectives, get from boxes, yada, yada. (0:19:51) Kevin: So it is a limited amount you get, at least like daily, but if you just invest them smartly, you can get through the races. (0:19:58) Kevin: Okay, but so you know (0:20:01) Kevin: That’s kind of a bummer how grindy you can feel at times But the grind is fun because the game itself is really fun They it as you can expect from disney money. The presentation is pretty stellar like I said the (0:20:15) Kevin: All the visuals the audio is good. They got (0:20:19) Kevin: Not every voice actor but a good majority of them. They didn’t get you know, john goodman for sully, but uh (0:20:27) Kevin: They got ariel’s voice actress, which is pretty cool. Um (0:20:31) Kevin: And i’m a big disney fan. So i’m uh, i’m thoroughly enjoying the game. Um (0:20:37) Kevin: and it’s like on every console or Platform whatever and you can move your account and all that good stuff. Um (0:20:46) Kevin: so I uh I I I enjoy I kind of recommend it if you’re a big disney fan in particular (0:20:56) Jonnie: This sounds like the sort of game that in a different stage of my life I would have got very into and it’s more that I just don’t have space for another like daily check-in game in my life at the moment. (0:21:06) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, now that’s understandable um I (0:21:10) Jonnie: And how would you say the racing compares to like a Mario? (0:21:12) Kevin: I think (0:21:14) Kevin: Overall the the pacing is faster in general. There’s a big emphasis on boosting and has a boosting mechanic (0:21:24) Kevin: The number of power-ups are (0:21:29) Kevin: They’re general. I don’t know if they’re smaller the actual amount, but they’re less impactful. Let’s say right (0:21:34) Kevin: There’s no blue (0:21:36) Kevin: Shell or lightning. There’s nothing super chaotic like the most (0:21:40) Kevin: There’s a shield you can get there. You can fire like a homing disc (0:21:46) Kevin: They do put some fun twists on it because the power-ups you can actually (0:21:52) Kevin: Have variations some you can charge up (0:21:55) Kevin: You can hold the button down and charge up the power-up to do something different some you can throw backwards others. You can’t (0:22:02) Kevin: uh… and most interestingly uh… every character (0:22:06) Kevin: has a unique uh… power-up uh… that matches their character right um… so for instance uh… ariel has a really fun one when you use her special skill she uh… (0:22:19) Kevin: these little uh… (0:22:21) Kevin: the trinkets and artifacts uh… just uh… spawn on the racetrack and if you collect them you get a higher top speed which is cute uh… there’s other ones like stitch he’ll just start blasting all her crazy like with his ray gun. (0:22:36) Kevin: Sully will roar at people and it’s just cute to see the ones that they do and how they match each character. (0:22:46) Kevin: But yeah, overall it feels less chaotic than a Mario Kart because Mario Kart is just utter chaos with everything flying around. (0:22:58) Kevin: It is a bit more straightforward racing but still enjoyable. (0:23:06) Kevin: And one more I’ve got to talk about, Moonstone Island. (0:23:10) Kevin: Funnily enough, you guys talked about the update last week. (0:23:16) Kevin: I was playing before the update dropped, I didn’t even know it was coming. (0:23:20) Kevin: You can see there was an update on Steam. (0:23:22) Kevin: I have actually not hit credits, I don’t know if you can hit credits in the game, but I completed a full year and defeated the final boss. (0:23:30) Kevin: I did a whole episode on that and I think my feelings are more or less… (0:23:36) Kevin: They added the marriage and that was fine, but it’s not enough to change the entirety of the game. (0:23:44) Kevin: There’s still a lot I like about the game, but there’s also a lot that it feels lacking. (0:23:50) Kevin: But hopefully they’ll keep updating it and we’ll see it get to a better place. (0:23:54) Kevin: The one thing I will definitely give them props for is the monster design. (0:24:00) Kevin: The hands down winner, the new ones they added, is called… (0:24:06) Kevin: …the bread mouse. It is a toaster with a piece of toast in it with a little face on it and the toast will pop out. (0:24:16) Kevin: But yeah, I still kinda recommend it. I went back to it, right? (0:24:22) Kevin: There’s enough for me to actually go through the whole year. (0:24:24) Kevin: Yeah. (0:24:26) Jonnie: And that’s a big thing, I guess, you know, in this year or, you know, in modern time. (0:24:32) Jonnie: Going back to a game is a really good sign, because there’s so many games that we get to play, (0:24:40) Jonnie: and you can try something and be like, “Oh, that was fun,” but you never really feel the need to go back to it, and you’ll be scrolling through your library, and you’ll be like, “Oh, (0:24:46) Jonnie: I never went back to that.” And you kind of realize, like, while it was fun, there wasn’t that hook to pull you back. So anything that can do that, I think, is a solution. (0:24:50) Kevin: Yeah, yep, yep, there’s something almost like I keep going back because I want it to be good right like I had fun going through the bosses and everything the last fight is actually very challenging but I just I still wish there was like a story giving me a reason that I’m hiding this thing. Oh, you know, I’m just gonna spoil (0:24:56) Jonnie: It’s kind of a pretty good game. (0:25:20) Kevin: it for anyone who cares the boss’s name is missing no actually just straight up missing no like Pokemon’s missing number but but yeah so that and hey I did I can pat myself on the back and close it for now unless something update comes. Ah, but yeah, that’s what I’ve been up to a lot of stuff and speaking of a lot of stuff we got news actually I don’t think it’s that much news but we got some items here so let’s let’s get into it first up. (0:25:50) Kevin: Alpone Island, yeah, console releases are still coming, but we don’t have any date yet, (0:25:57) Kevin: and they’re doing improvements to the UI, which is always good. (0:26:02) Kevin: I feel like, oh man, UI design, it’s so critical, but it feels so underappreciated, even just from the dev side, but you know, so I do appreciate them putting some effort on that. (0:26:20) Jonnie: Yeah, so I guess the key to this one is that they kind of recognize that their launch on Steam was a little bit rocky. (0:26:25) Jonnie: They got kind of hit with a few bugs that were probably unexpected. (0:26:29) Jonnie: And so they’re just calling out that they’re still fully intending to do their console launches, (0:26:34) Jonnie: but also recognizing that it’s probably going to take a bit more work than they initially intended. (0:26:38) Jonnie: So no official date as of yet, but I really appreciate this sort of communication. (0:26:45) Jonnie: and probably unsurprising that when you have a launch on Steam. (0:26:50) Jonnie: And you get hit with some bugs that you didn’t expect like, it’s not only that it can be disappointing sort of, you know, that that happens and disappointing commercially, but it could also be like it’s just hard right when you put a lot of time, effort and love into into a game like this. (0:27:05) Jonnie: And, you know, it’s very hard to predict we all know that building games is difficult. (0:27:11) Jonnie: So, I think it’s a good sign that they’re taking the time and not putting the additional pressure on to, to get the, to get those things done. (0:27:12) Kevin: Oh yeah, absolutely. (0:27:18) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely yeah, and even just in this (0:27:24) Kevin: Cottage cord subspace there’s plenty of games, so there’s definitely no need to rush (0:27:30) Kevin: I agree, it’s good for them to be clear for one to folk it to (0:27:36) Kevin: Plan things out like this right like they’re gonna delay it and to be clear about it (0:27:41) Kevin: So I (0:27:42) Kevin: Think that’s a sign of a good developer. So, you know, I hoped for that console release eventually (0:27:49) Kevin: Kinseed has a what they call the big build update Great. (0:27:58) Jonnie: Yeah, so the the big build update is hot now and I guess the key to this one is it introduces farm customization (0:28:06) Kevin: Yeah, uh (0:28:08) Kevin: So I have not honestly I have not seen that much about (0:28:13) Kevin: But boy that art is beautiful. It is wow that’s some lovely lovely pixel art (0:28:19) Kevin: Yeah farm customization is the big one. They have actually they have a big list of stuff on Steam you can see (0:28:27) Kevin: They even adjusted some of the story pacing (0:28:31) Kevin: Let me see. Oh, that’s cool NPC a talent system for NPC That’s really cool improvements to their progress screen (0:28:41) Kevin: You can (0:28:44) Kevin: Not just customize it not just not visual customization for the farm, but actual structures that can improve (0:28:52) Kevin: like your shelters for your animals and (0:28:57) Kevin: Things to make travel and commerce easier. Um, if this is a pretty hearty update. Oh batch crafting. There’s the (0:29:04) Kevin: That’s the one everyone loves (0:29:06) Kevin: That’s a lot of that’s a lot of that’s a big update. I appreciate that. I’m gonna have to check this out This is some really pretty art. I totally forgotten about this one I don’t like and like I said, that is out now already on Steam. Is it anywhere else? (0:29:18) Kevin: I don’t remember but at there at least on Steam, okay (0:29:22) Kevin: Let’s see next up. We have oh, this is fun one a game called outbound (0:29:31) Kevin: Let’s read the blurb shall we (0:29:35) Kevin: Build your own home (0:29:36) Kevin: Come on wheels and live sustainably off-grid Craft workstations and power supplies Source energy from the sun, wind, or water Upgrade and customize your vehicle Grow crops, automate your production, and explore a colorful world That’s a lot of stuff to do from a vehicle (0:29:54) Jonnie: look this game looks incredible so so I guess the the shorter summary we’ll keep just read out is you’re driving around in a in a minivan that you live in and you can customize I’ll put a note down here that I well I was on board before this but the moment that got Al was they built an insane structure on top of the campervan which I think is amazing from what they’ve shown you know being able drive around the world, dick out. (0:30:24) Jonnie: The game is a bit of a game, but it’s a bit of a game. (0:30:32) Kevin: Yeah, it’s a very pleasant visual style too, it’s full 3D cell shaded, I think is probably the best way, or closest approximation, I would say. (0:30:47) Kevin: This is very interesting, right? Because so many farm games, they’re centered around the farm or the base, right? (0:30:56) Kevin: But this one’s mobile, so, like, how, that will make sense. (0:31:02) Kevin: This will make, I assume, traversing between different little mini bases, because they show you can build structures on the ground and stuff, so I assume you can build little buildings and things like that. (0:31:13) Kevin: I wonder how big the map will be if you have a car, like, there’s a lot of potential there. (0:31:18) Kevin: It looks like wind turbines on the top of this thing. Oh, that’s great. I hope you can go really high, I want it to look absurdly ridiculous. (0:31:30) Jonnie: And it’s I guess in terms of like this game is being announced. They have a (0:31:35) Jonnie: Kickstarter page like but no no campaign launch or launch date. So probably just want to keep our eyes on (0:31:46) Kevin: Um, all right, so that is, again, Outbound, that’s a fun looking one. (0:31:52) Kevin: Um, and actually, that’s it. (0:31:55) Kevin: I think we’ve covered most of the news. (0:31:55) Jonnie: Oh we got one more one more (0:31:58) Kevin: Well, one more by yes, but I’ll let you take this one. (0:31:59) Jonnie: We’ve got farming some farming simulator farming simulator 23. Yeah, you scroll past it (0:32:02) Kevin: Wait, what? (0:32:04) Kevin: Oh, oh, I missed it. (0:32:04) Kevin: You’re right. (0:32:05) Kevin: I skipped it. (0:32:05) Kevin: Yeah, I did. (0:32:08) Kevin: Wait, they do content updates for these guys. (0:32:10) Jonnie: Yes, they do lots of content updates for farming simulator they’ve got all the farming freaks and (0:32:14) Kevin: I thought each year was the con- (0:32:16) Kevin: content of the- laughs (0:32:17) Jonnie: No, there are there are updates within the content updates (0:32:22) Jonnie: So this one introduces a new to. (0:32:25) Jonnie: a new video. (0:32:36) Kevin: And no (0:32:40) Kevin: I do enjoy seeing the reactions from the people who are fans, right like (0:32:46) Kevin: the I remember years back when they finally brought John Deere into farming simulator just the (0:32:54) Kevin: the (0:32:56) Kevin: The height was (0:32:58) Kevin: Through roof from the farm simulator community (0:33:03) Kevin: That’s that’s pretty fun (0:33:05) Kevin: All right, yeah, the boat (0:33:07) Kevin: I’ll put an exclamation point. I wonder if he knows who that is. I don’t know that company (0:33:13) Kevin: Alright, let’s just get into the demos Johnny. I’ll let you take the first one. That’s I chair to the class what what demos you’ve been (0:33:22) Jonnie: So I guess the first one that I’ll kick off with is Lightyear Frontier. (0:33:26) Jonnie: And as I wrote that down, I’m actually questioning, is that the name of the game? (0:33:29) Jonnie: Because we’re in the classic word salad of games where you start looking at things, (0:33:38) Jonnie: and then you wonder, is that right? Or is it something else? (0:33:42) Jonnie: It is… Yeah. Right. (0:33:42) Kevin: This is not one lonely outpost or whatever that one’s called. That’s the other space future one [laughs] (0:33:52) Jonnie: So yeah, so Lightyear Frontier is the mech space farming game. (0:34:00) Jonnie: And actually, having played the demo, I feel like farming or cottagecore game (0:34:05) Jonnie: is maybe not quite the right description. To me, it feels maybe more similar to (0:34:17) Jonnie: like a survival game. So the premise is you are dropped on a planet with (0:34:22) Jonnie: your mech and you are the only thing on there. I think part of it is the intent is maybe more for like do it with friends, right? So there might be three or four of you and you explore the planet and sort of build and establish a base more so than a farm. Like farming is definitely an element of it, but I guess that’s kind of the core base of the (0:34:42) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it definitely feels more, as you said, survival as great like no man’s sky or perhaps power. (0:35:00) Kevin: But okay, tell me how is the mech though, right? Because that’s that’s the differential to the star of the show How does it feel oh? (0:35:08) Jonnie: the mech is unfortunately disappointing and there’s one very clear reason for it and I get where they’re going I just don’t think it works in execution so what happens with the mech is you know it can jump higher you can get in and out of the mech so you’re not always in the mech and there are elements where you need to be outside of it but what happens I think in order to sort of limit traversal around the world as the mech is not great. (0:35:12) Kevin: No (0:35:39) Jonnie: If you are on unstable ground, it is highly likely to fall over and then you need to get out and you need to right the mech. (0:35:40) Kevin: Oh, no. (0:35:47) Jonnie: I get why they want to limit some of the traversal. (0:35:52) Jonnie: I assume it might be that you can get a higher jump or a longer boost later in the game, but it just doesn’t feel great. (0:36:04) Jonnie: You know to me part of what I want to feel when I’m in a mix is like I am like (0:36:08) Jonnie: Human plus and in many ways it feels like you’re a human - we (0:36:12) Kevin: Right, absolutely, like, I’m looking at the trailer and one thing I’m seeing is that the actions you do from the map feel very similar to what you could do in any other sort of survival game, right, collecting resources, planting, etc, etc. (0:36:36) Kevin: And, I mean, obviously the visuals match the Mac you’re using tools and gadgets. (0:36:42) Kevin: And what not to do it. But like you say, when you’re when I’m in a mech, I’d want to be more than human plus I want to be outrageously absurdly powerful and doing nonsense right like I just want to low, if I’m going to clear a lane, I want to do it just in till a field I want to do it in just one button push, you know, something like that, something absurd and over the top. (0:37:06) Kevin: And I’m not really seeing that, which is unfortunate. (0:37:08) Jonnie: Yeah, and I didn’t really feel that in the gameplay, so that was unfortunate. (0:37:14) Kevin: Yeah, what about the the rest of it right? (0:37:18) Jonnie: So I think the rest of it… So I think it’s well known that I’m not a particularly big fan of survival games, (0:37:24) Jonnie: but I even feel that in the realm of survival games, this one suffers from not really having a clear identity of what it is. (0:37:36) Jonnie: So if I think about something like you know the classic Minecraft, Minecraft is all built around the creativity aspect of what can you build and what can you do in this world. There’s no narrative element, it’s just come up with whatever narrative you want but this is the game which is great for what they’re doing. Something like Pylia is like hey go out into the world and beat these bosses right so there’s there is more of a here’s an objective of a thing to do. Now you can talk about how good it is at doing that but it’s (0:38:08) Jonnie: very clearly there. In Lightyear Frontier there is a narrative aspect that is so you’ve got an AI (0:38:22) Jonnie: counterpart that’s like watching over you and giving you guidance I guess is is probably the way to describe it and you’re landed on a planet there’s some allusions to you know like why didn’t humanity come here and you know explore this planet and you know you’re gonna clean up some of it (0:38:38) Jonnie: but it doesn’t feel particularly like the narrative doesn’t feel particularly compelling or strong like there was a few quests that kind of were meant to introduce it to you but they kind of just feel like they appeared and I didn’t really feel like I had a compelling reason to go and do those I didn’t care about completing the quests right like it was more just like here’s a task to complete and then on the other side I didn’t get that like the building side of it (0:39:08) Jonnie: and I didn’t feel strong enough that I was like oh but like that I could see how I want to build out this planet it more felt like kind of just standard base building stuff so to me it felt stuck between all of the different aspects of what a survival game could be and just wasn’t really (0:39:28) Kevin: Yeah, I again, looking at the trailer, I can I can get that like, I think a concern just from looking at it, the house you can build is like a little wood cottage type ranch home and in a mech game, you know, I’d hope for a big hulking metal robot base. (0:39:50) Kevin: So I can see that it feels like they’re trying to go in two different directions. They’re going through all the usual trappings of these survival. (0:39:58) Kevin: Type games, but they’re trying to do this next stuff, but not enough. So that’s that’s a tad unfortunate, like, honestly, just looks like a more colorful no man’s sky again. (0:40:11) Jonnie: Yeah. I don’t know that I have a huge amount else to say on this game, and I guess my takeaway is, (0:40:19) Jonnie: you know, sometimes you play a game and you’re like, “I didn’t enjoy that, but I know the sorts of people that would enjoy it, right? I know who I would recommend the game to.” Unfortunately, (0:40:28) Jonnie: with my time with Lightyear Frontier, I kind of left it thinking, “I don’t know who this game is for.” It feels too much like we built a thing where, you know, it’s sort of like Mad Libs. (0:40:41) Jonnie: And I guess that’s probably something we should say maybe not right up front, because now that we’re a little bit into the conversation, but there’s a huge possibility that these things could change, (0:41:09) Jonnie: All right, um (0:41:11) Jonnie: And I think for me the thing that would need to change with lightyear frontier (0:41:14) Jonnie: In order for me to go back in is I would want to hear about this game having a clear direction in terms of what it is whether that’s adding a lot more narratively or you know really going into what it means to clean up the planet and to (0:41:30) Jonnie: Build a base or do whatever the thing is that you’re aiming to do on this planet (0:41:34) Jonnie: Uh, I would just like to see more of a direct (0:41:40) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s unfortunate and they have the big hook they have the mech right like if they got in all in on that right like (0:41:50) Kevin: customize it to be just (0:41:52) Kevin: Ridiculously different builds or whatever right like I think of you know armor court six I don’t know if you’re familiar with that that was the big mech game from from software (0:42:01) Kevin: Like that’s the sort of thing. I want to see from Mecca’s (0:42:04) Jonnie: And I think that’s a really good sort of like point to raise is that, you know, and I think we talked about this a few weeks ago, the tools just kind of feel like the tools that you would have anywhere else like it doesn’t feel like they’re really taking advantage of the of the mech and some of the cool things that it could do, you know, you’ve got this big open game, give us a, you know, a super fast boost. (0:42:26) Jonnie: Like, I’ve not played Armoured Core 6, but I’ve seen the gameplay of Armoured Core 6, and you kind of take all of the aspects of that game. (0:42:31) Kevin: right like yep (0:42:35) Jonnie: And you delete them. And that’s what playing a mech in this game feels like. (0:42:39) Kevin: yep yep oh man that’s that’s disappointing but uh it is still technically early access so you know who knows maybe one day we’ll we’ll see improvements maybe they’ll hear this episode down the ground grapevine and then then then then they’ll go all day but um all right there you go Well, that’s lightyear frontier. (0:43:00) Jonnie: - Yes, that’s my first tempo. (0:43:01) Kevin: All right, I want to talk about Southfield. (0:43:02) Jonnie: Kip, what’s your… (0:43:08) Kevin: So we covered this relatively recently on the podcast last time I was on with Al. (0:43:14) Kevin: They’re hook, they’re premise. (0:43:16) Kevin: It is a physics-based farming, your cottagecore type game. (0:43:21) Kevin: It is, so if you watch the trailer, see the images. (0:43:25) Kevin: You can see just from the visual style what they’re going for. (0:43:28) Kevin: You’re playing as this very (0:43:31) Kevin: round colorful I call it gun gumdrop creature um with goofy cartoony eyes and and just like no fingers or whatever just brown ball hands and this demo is fascinating because (0:43:48) Kevin: unlike other demos it’s not a they’re up clear about it up they’re clear and upfront about it it’s not a like example of a level or whatever this is kind of a (0:44:01) Kevin: proof of concept they want to uh show what they want to go for that’s how they describe it now that said the it is a fairly robust and complete uh demo uh it is very large and the kicker is you can’t save but it yeah yeah it’s rough so like if you want to if you think you’d enjoy this you’ve got to clear a couple hours because it is a it is a very amply sized uh demo (0:44:17) Jonnie: Oh no! (0:44:31) Kevin: both in terms of like the area you can cover and the amount of things you can do it uh so going to the main hook of the the physics space portion so for instance right in your standard farming game when you want to harvest a crop you you just push the button and you collect the resource right maybe you put it down with a sickle or whatever right in this game you have to grab the fruit Whatever it is, and you actually have to pull that sucker out like it (0:45:01) Kevin: will stretch cartoon style and you have to yank it off in a very sort of satisfying way of doing it. It’s not all completely fixed space, for instance when you’re plowing the the ground it’s still a grid based sort of system as is the usual, but for instance when you’re watering it’s not just water square by square it’s like you’re you actually just can run around and just rush all and spray water everywhere as you’re doing it. (0:45:31) Jonnie: This game just looks incredible. I love this. I have like- I love the- (0:45:31) Kevin: The Legend of Zelda Series is a very bright, bouncy, colorful cartoon. It’s a dedicated combo button. You can just roll around and roll around. (0:45:38) Kevin: Everything about it, even as you’re playing the mechanics, all feel like how it looks. For instance, there is a dedicated combo button where you just kind of roll up into a ball and then you can just start rolling around like a Goron from The Legend of Zelda Series. (0:46:02) Kevin: It’s very fun, it’s very cute. There is a huge, like, 30 or something crops that you can grow in the demo. (0:46:14) Kevin: And they do get into some of the other aspects, like building and crafting and whatnot. (0:46:20) Kevin: In particular, the automation stuff where you can construct conveyor belts and things like that. You can see in some of the trailer, like, you can have these wacky… (0:46:31) Kevin: bouncing fruits on the conveyor belts as they’re moving along. So it can… the possibilities are… they’re vast. Like, I can’t even imagine the nonsense that will come out of this game. (0:46:44) Kevin: And overall, like I said, it’s a real… it sucks that you can’t say it because I want to play this more and more, but having to restart every time is a real bummer. (0:46:57) Kevin: bummer but yeah the whole demo as a whole is very sandbox (0:47:01) Kevin: like here’s the island go here’s basically all the things you can do and just go do whatever right I don’t know what the if they’re gonna try to go with a narrative thing because they have some other NPCs and characters which are fun in design and have personality so maybe they’ll lean into that I don’t know but it is still overall I think a great demo I’m excited for the game I’m glad the demo didn’t disappoint because just what looking at the. (0:47:31) Kevin: very excited by the visual style and I’m definitely keeping my eye out for this and you know, (0:47:40) Kevin: whenever how long it will take to get a big game actually done. (0:47:43) Kevin: So definitely a thumbs up. (0:47:45) Jonnie: I loved the look of some of the automation in the game where they set up the conveyor belts and like fans and was that in the demo? (0:47:53) Kevin: Yes, yes it was. I can’t remember fans, but I think it was. I didn’t fiddle around with the animation too, too much, but they definitely had a lot of different components that you could mess around with to basically achieve the sort of stuff you see in the trailer with fans pushing them and bouncing and things like that. (0:48:11) Kevin: Yeah, I’m definitely a thumbs up from me on Southfield. (0:48:16) Jonnie: game looks, it looks incredible. My feeling looking at this game is it kind of gives me the silliness that I feel like an Ooblets was going for and Ooblets massively failed to deliver on because it just tried to be absurd. This feels like absurd with a purpose, right? That’s, to me, that’s the appeal is like the ragdoll physics style element and what you’ve said about like it’s not everywhere, (0:48:27) Kevin: Yes. (0:48:42) Jonnie: right like the the hoeing being more grid-based as well. (0:48:46) Kevin: Yeah, it’s it’s still grounded. Yes, right (0:48:47) Jonnie: That to me says a lot because yeah it’s grounded there’s still intention behind it and doing that those things where it makes sense right here like Ublitz was just like we’re gonna make everything silly because that’s the thing we do we’re silly look at how silly we are and it’s like hey you kind of just cringe in lane right like whereas this looks just amazing. (0:49:06) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. I I fully agree with that because (0:49:11) Kevin: Yeah, nothing felt nothing felt bad like for better lack of way of putting oh my gosh I think I’m looking at the trailer again I forgot there’s this fruit that will just start growing if you don’t harvest it quickly enough. It’s it’s pretty fun (0:49:25) Kevin: Yeah, they have the cannons. Yeah, all this stuff is in the demo looking at it. There’s not like your dog I don’t remember that but oh, yeah, I think the vehicle was in there, too (0:49:33) Kevin: But I agree like it’s very thoughtful (0:49:36) Kevin: in its design. It’s goofy as much as it can be but still absolutely grounds it with working systems. And honestly I had the same feeling of like this is kind of what I want Ooblets to be like because it’s bright and colorful but not ridiculously like I don’t I don’t know what it is about Ooblets something about the names that always throw me off about Ooblets but but here it’s just so much fun. I mean just looking at the (0:50:07) Kevin: It’s it’s great. Yeah, so I don’t think we have a any date or anything like that for Southfield yet, but (0:50:15) Kevin: Keep your keep your eye out for it because I think it’s gonna be a great one (0:50:20) Jonnie: Alright, so Rusty’s Retirement is a game I’m very excited about, I’ve been very excited about, (0:50:28) Jonnie: and I was very excited to try the demo. I feel like the idea of an idol-ish farming game that kind of just sits at the bottom of your screen is genius and something that I had (0:50:42) Jonnie: not considered and something I didn’t know that I wanted until I saw the trailer. (0:50:46) Jonnie: And I was like, yeah, I really want to play this. (0:50:50) Jonnie: Good. (0:50:51) Jonnie: And having played the demo, it seems like it’s exactly what I wanted it to be. (0:50:57) Jonnie: So you have your farming plots that sit at the bottom of the screen. (0:51:01) Jonnie: You select a crop, you plant it. (0:51:04) Jonnie: Rusty, he goes out and he’ll plant the crops, (0:51:07) Jonnie: or he’ll order them, he’ll harvest them. (0:51:10) Jonnie: You can purchase robots that will help with the automation, (0:51:14) Jonnie: effectively just increasing the number of tasks that you can complete. (0:51:20) Jonnie: The first crops you grow, then maybe they take a minute or two. (0:51:24) Jonnie: And then as time goes on, the crops take longer and longer to grow. (0:51:27) Jonnie: And you just need to grow more of them to unlock future stuff. (0:51:32) Kevin: You’re right. Okay (0:51:33) Jonnie: The demo has some pretty obvious blockers on it. (0:51:39) Jonnie: I assume you’ll be able to purchase more land. (0:51:41) Jonnie: There are some big bits on the screen that we just grade out with the words demo across them. (0:51:46) Jonnie: I’m sure there’ll be more buildings and stuff like you could buy. (0:51:50) Jonnie: a few buildings in this one, but nothing significant. (0:51:56) Jonnie: It was just kind of everything. I was hoping it was going to be. (0:52:01) Kevin: okay so the prison like the visual is very cute I actually like the style a lot um my question is (0:52:09) Kevin: how intrusive do you find it right like because it’s running at the bottom of your screen (0:52:16) Kevin: like how frequently are you checking in or how much is it distracting you (0:52:22) Jonnie: Yes, I don’t know if it’s fair to say, Chris, this is probably the thing that I hope changes the most as the game goes from demo to full implementation. (0:52:33) Jonnie: And I should call out that they’re very explicit that the demo is a work in progress and that a lot of things will change. (0:52:42) Jonnie: So in terms of how intrusive it is, I’m playing on a laptop with, you know, like a 15 inch screen and a monitor. It’s a textual monitor that’s like. (0:52:52) Jonnie: Maybe 27 inches and it does feel quite intrusive. They do have options where you can keep it up permanently or have it minimize, which is which is handy. (0:53:02) Jonnie: It did feel quite intrusive, but they’re one of the good things that I guess has come out of the demos. (0:53:10) Jonnie: They’ve announced that vertical mode is coming and I think the vertical mode would change it quite significantly. (0:53:15) Jonnie: I think there’s quite a difference to it being on the right of a screen versus. (0:53:22) Jonnie: It being sort of on the bottom in terms of the amount of screen real estate it will take up. (0:53:27) Jonnie: So I really like that change. I think that makes a lot of sense and it’s something that I’m very excited for because I think I would I would be much more likely to have it up permanently if I was playing in vertical mode versus horizontal. (0:53:40) Kevin: Okay. (0:53:41) Kevin: Yeah. (0:53:42) Kevin: I, I guess I can see that. (0:53:44) Kevin: I guess also like just how much like in terms of attention, does it, (0:53:50) Kevin: does it track from you, right? (0:53:52) Kevin: Like, is this something you would run while doing something? (0:53:56) Kevin: I don’t know, a work type task or, or is this something just while you’re watching videos or like, how, yeah, how much of your attention? (0:54:06) Jonnie: Yeah, so I think this is the other thing that I kind of hope changes in the full implementation is that it slows down a bit. (0:54:13) Jonnie: So I felt like it was requiring too much attention for what it was. (0:54:20) Jonnie: But again, that’s sort of a pass I’m willing to give it because it’s a demo. (0:54:23) Jonnie: And I think it felt like, you know, to me, it felt like that was intended because you kind of progress to purchasing some of the buildings and getting a lot of the resources. (0:54:34) Jonnie: what felt like very quick for a game of (0:54:36) Jonnie: this sort and I wouldn’t be surprised if in the in the full implementation everything else was slowed down so I feel like I did everything within the demo you know which which goes from starting with not a lot to generating you know thousands of gold within t

Al and Kev talk about Moonstone Island Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:05: What Have We Been Up To 00:14:27: News 00:54:26: Moonstone Island 01:47:58: Outro Links Spells and Secrest Update One Lonely Outpost New UI Sneak Peek Orange Season 0.11 Wylde Flowers Eury’s Salon Update Re:Legend News My Time at Sandrock Plushies Paleo Pines Plushie Tchia Soul Meter Update Spirittea News Stardew 1.6 News Southfield Sugardew Island Sugardew Island Kickstarter Sunkissed City Abyss: New Dawn Abyss: New Dawn Kickstarter Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al. (0:00:36) Kevin: I’m, well it says “blank” in the show now. (0:00:40) Kevin: That just reminds me of Pokemon Gold and Silver. (0:00:43) Kevin: I was one of those guys who named my rival question my question word question word. (0:00:47) Kevin: Hello everyone, my name is Kevin. (0:00:49) Al: And we’re here today to talk about cottagecore games. (0:00:53) Kevin: Whoo! (0:00:54) Al: So the behind the scenes on that is, was it last episode? (0:00:59) Al: Neither Johnny nor Bev knew how I traditionally introduce. (0:01:02) Kevin: Yeah, there you go, yeah, you know me, I’m going to. (0:01:03) Al: So I wrote it down. (0:01:05) Al: I wrote it down in the show notes so that people always have it now. (0:01:10) Al: And the first episode we have it in, Kevin comments on it. (0:01:14) Al: So, great. (0:01:19) Al: Well, as usual, transcripts for the podcast are available in the show notes and on the website. (0:01:26) Al: This podcast, this episode, this episode, we are going to talk about Moonstone Island, (0:01:33) Al: the creature collection farming, like there’s only one, one of the creature collecting farming games. (0:01:36) Kevin: Yeah… (0:01:42) Kevin: You don’t talk about religion? (0:01:44) Kevin: Is religion one of them? I don’t remember. (0:01:46) Al: I can’t even remember if that’s one other thing. (0:01:48) Kevin: I don’t know. I still- I don’t think religion exists. (0:01:52) Al: That game smashed together so many buzzwords. (0:01:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:01:58) Al: Before that, we’re going to cover news. It has been a busy news week, (0:02:03) Al: so we’re going to cover all of that. But first of all, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:02:08) Kevin: Alright, so, uh, first of all, Tears of the Kingdom, I’m still- I’ve- (0:02:14) Kevin: I don’t remember the last time I talked about it here, but I’ve played it in the background kind of… (0:02:20) Kevin: …uh, on and off, um, I’m not a- I’m not going for completion, but I am trying to hit every shrine. (0:02:29) Kevin: Every light route, and all that stuff. (0:02:32) Kevin: Um, I’ve already finished the deaths, I finished all the main story beats except for beating Ganon, (0:02:37) Kevin: and I’m over 100, uh… (0:02:38) Kevin: Shrines at this point, so I’m nearing the finish line. I might finish by next week. (0:02:43) Al: You’re doing the sensible completionist, not the full completionist. (0:02:44) Kevin: You know… (0:02:48) Kevin: Exactly. That’s correct! (0:02:51) Kevin: And that game is a blast. You know, of course, needless to say. (0:02:58) Kevin: Small stories, spoilers for people who don’t want to listen. The Fifth Sage (0:03:03) Kevin: was a real surprise. I think that’s a giant robot, and (0:03:07) Kevin: Monero is a fun to- (0:03:08) Kevin: to- a blast to run around with, um, and I’m so glad I got her early on, her relative. (0:03:15) Al: Yeah, my fun fact about her is that I got her before any of the other sages, because I just happened across her and did it. (0:03:22) Kevin: Yeah. (0:03:24) Kevin: That’s… (0:03:26) Kevin: That’s so wild, that’s so cool. (0:03:29) Kevin: Um, my brother Calvin, he didn’t do her until like after he beat all the shrines, so… (0:03:35) Kevin: He just like, “Well, I got this cool run and I don’t have anything to do with it!” (0:03:40) Kevin: Um… (0:03:42) Kevin: But yeah, no, uh, Tears of the Kingdom, great game, needless to say. (0:03:45) Kevin: Um, I’m just, haven’t been having a blast at that. (0:03:47) Kevin: Um, I’ve picked up Smash again this week, uh, (0:03:50) Kevin: They are releasing some new spirit. (0:03:52) Kevin: It’s like the fifth anniversary, something like that. (0:03:55) Kevin: Sakurai refuses, cannot be stopped from working on that game. (0:04:01) Kevin: But a good reason to pick up again and smash a smash, always fun. (0:04:06) Kevin: Aside from that, the Rainbow Road obligatory shout out here. (0:04:13) Kevin: Rainbow Road Radio, some of the stuff I’ve been talking about on that show recently. (0:04:18) Kevin: Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga the game (0:04:22) Kevin: Boy Advance RPG. We did an episode on that and boy that game is amazing! I played it when I was younger, it was amazing back then and I’m glad that it is still fantastic now. (0:04:38) Kevin: Have you played any of the Mario and Luigi games? Al? (0:04:40) Al: I have not. That was the one you covered last week, in the last episode, right? Yeah. I enjoyed listening to that. It was good fun, but it did confirm to me that I probably don’t want to play it. So I’ve played a couple of the Paper Mario games, and I’ve played what was the Mario RPG last year, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t think I like turn-based battles anymore. And that’s fine. (0:04:41) Kevin: Yes. (0:04:52) Kevin: Yes. Mmhmm. Yep. Mmhmm. Sure. (0:05:10) Al: For that reason, I suspect I wouldn’t like this game, because that’s a huge part of the game, right? (0:05:16) Kevin: It is. Right, but like one of the joys in my opinion where it succeeds is it’s very dynamic even for turn based game because of the (0:05:28) Kevin: The counters and the the timing and jumping these it’s still repetitive (0:05:34) Kevin: actions (0:05:34) Al: So I understand that, but actually I think that makes it worse for me because it’s not turn-based battling then, right? (0:05:40) Al: Like it’s turn-based with a little bit of real time. (0:05:44) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:05:45) Al: So because I had that in Mario RPG as well, they did that. (0:05:46) Kevin: - Yeah? (0:05:47) Al: It’s like, oh, if you, if you, if you press the button at the right time, it increases your attack, or if you press it at the right time, you get, you take zero damage. (0:05:48) Kevin: They did that? (0:05:56) Al: And it’s like, okay, well, I need to do that then. (0:05:58) Al: And there are so many battles where you basically can’t win it unless you do, or you obviously (0:06:04) Al: have a ridiculous degree, unless you do those things. (0:06:07) Al: And to me, it just turns for, it just makes it annoying because it’s like, I can’t just do a turn-based battle. (0:06:13) Al: It’s turn-based battle, but I also have to have the right timing, which to me takes away the advantage of the turn-based battles. (0:06:14) Kevin: Yeah. (0:06:18) Kevin: Mm-hmm. (0:06:20) Al: So I understand why people would like that, but for me, it doesn’t, it actually makes (0:06:21) Kevin: Okay. (0:06:25) Kevin: Yeah. (0:06:25) Kevin: I- I get that, right? (0:06:27) Kevin: Because, yeah, one of the advantages of turn-based battles is definitely turn your brain off, sort of thing. (0:06:32) Kevin: Um. (0:06:33) Kevin: Yeah, no, I- I- I can see that. (0:06:35) Kevin: Um. (0:06:36) Kevin: But, uh, regardless, the game’s fantastic. (0:06:38) Kevin: It’s hilarious. (0:06:38) Kevin: It’s amazing. (0:06:39) Kevin: Uh. (0:06:40) Kevin: Go listen to that episode of Rainbow Road Radio if you guys haven’t heard it. (0:06:44) Kevin: And check out that game if you guys haven’t played it, it’s still a- or 20, whatever, however many years it’s been. (0:06:47) Al: It’s 20, 21. (0:06:49) Kevin: Um. (0:06:50) Kevin: No, I know. (0:06:51) Kevin: I don’t- I don’t know what it should be. (0:06:52) Al: No, it was definitely a fun listen to hear you two talk about it, even if I know I’m not going to play. (0:06:54) Kevin: Um. (0:06:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:06:58) Kevin: Thank you. (0:06:59) Kevin: I appreciate it. (0:06:59) Kevin: Um. (0:07:00) Kevin: And, uh, well, now talking about the episode that will be released out at the- when this episode is- of Harvest Season’s out. (0:07:08) Kevin: Um, I watched something called The King of Kong. (0:07:11) Kevin: Have you heard of this at all, Al? (0:07:12) Al: No, I thought you were just saying King Kong in a funny way. This is like an actual “I have not, what is this?” (0:07:18) Kevin: Nope. (0:07:19) Kevin: Yep. (0:07:20) Kevin: Okay. (0:07:20) Kevin: So, The King of Kong is a documentary from like, 2007, I believe it is. (0:07:26) Kevin: Um. (0:07:27) Kevin: It was- it’s- it- it’s not super high production. (0:07:32) Kevin: It’s not like a big m- Hollywood movie release. (0:07:35) Kevin: It was directed by, uh, Seth Gordon, who ended up becoming a successful big Hollywood director because of this documentary, actually. (0:07:44) Kevin: Um, but it is a smaller, uh, project, it is a documentary about, uh, a- I should describe this- a competition of sorts between- a rivalry, let’s say, between a man named Billy Mitchell and a man named Steve We- Weebie, uh, over getting the world record in Donkey Kong, the arca- original arcade game, um, right? (0:08:11) Kevin: And so the way– (0:08:14) Kevin: The way this documentary is filmed and presented, it’s a very underdog story because Billy Mitchell is a world champ and record holder in like 10 different games like Pac-Man, Mrs. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong Jr., etc., etc., right? (0:08:28) Kevin: And then Steve Weebie’s just like this teacher with just a dad and all of a sudden he comes and gets this record and there’s a lot of drama involved because Billy Mitchell is closely associated with the– (0:08:44) Kevin: It’s called Twin Galaxies, the group that essentially is the authority on the records at that time of these types of arcade games. (0:08:54) Kevin: So like, for instance, one of Weebie’s early record attempts, he sent in a tape and they didn’t accept it because they said they needed to see it in person, yada yada. (0:09:06) Kevin: And so he goes in person and creates a new record, but then Billy Mitchell sends in a different tape and that one gets accepted because– (0:09:14) Kevin: And so there’s a lot of back and forth and drama. (0:09:18) Kevin: And it’s a good watch. I recommend it to people who haven’t seen it. (0:09:22) Kevin: But it’s interesting because the story does not end there. (0:09:28) Kevin: We watched some follow-up documentary and actually there’s been some court cases in the news. That’s why we kind of brought it up now. (0:09:36) Kevin: So I won’t go too much into detail of whether you guys can listen to the episode over at Rainbow Road Radio if you want to hear it. (0:09:44) Kevin: But long story short, Billy Mitchell is an awful, awful person who wants to be number one and will stop at nothing and step on everyone and backstab and control the narrative to do so. (0:09:49) Al: Oh. (0:10:00) Kevin: That much you can easily see in the original King of Kong documentary, so that’s not a shocker. But seeing the extent of how that goes, it’s a wild story. (0:10:14) Kevin: So again, that is called King of Kong. That’s the original documentary, but there is even follow-up documentaries made by more amateurs and stuff investigating more about the story. (0:10:26) Kevin: So it is a wild tale over several decades. (0:10:30) Kevin: But yeah, that’s what I’ve been up to. What about you? What’s going on with you? (0:10:30) Al: interesting. Yeah just before that I noticed that the Seth Gordon the director he did he did the 2017 Baywatch film as well this is like yes yeah so like yeah when you say he’s done Hollywood stuff he’s at he’s done proper big Hollywood stuff as well (0:10:44) Kevin: Yeah, and he did Horrible Bosses, that comedy with, I don’t know what it’s called, but yeah. (0:10:52) Kevin: Yeah, yep, yep. And King of Kong was kind of his breakthrough. Everyone took notice. (0:10:59) Al: Well, what have I been up to? I have obviously been playing Moonstone Island quite a bit for the last couple of weeks. Yeah, the behind-the-scenes stuff is we were meant to do this episode two weeks ago and I messaged Kevin on this Friday and said, “Can we delay the episode because I’ve played like 10 minutes of the game?” I just had not… We’ll get into that with stuff but I just had not. (0:11:06) Kevin: Yeah, I played a good bit too. I didn’t play it the last week. (0:11:29) Al: Managed to push myself to properly play the game. (0:11:31) Al: So I have now played a decent chunk of the game. (0:11:34) Al: So, um, yeah, we’ll, we’ll actually talk about it. (0:11:37) Kevin: Now we can talk about it, yay! (0:11:39) Al: Um, I’ve also been, uh, trying to finish up Hollow Knight as well. (0:11:44) Al: So I managed to get back into it and I’ve defeated a big chunk of the bosses. (0:11:49) Al: And I think I’ve got two bosses left to go. (0:11:52) Al: Um, so I’m, I’m getting there, but, uh, yeah, we’re getting, we’re getting pretty difficult, getting pretty difficult. (0:11:57) Kevin: Okay, oh, I bet oh my gosh. I’ve seen some of those later bosses Jesus wheez that’s some nutty stuff That’s off to you Hollow Knight people (0:12:06) Al: Yeah, it’s interesting because the one I’m currently on is like, it’s not the actual individual boss isn’t difficult, but the difficulty of it is there are six of them. And you have to defeat like all of them before, yeah. And they’re all, and they can do up to two at a time. So like doing one of them at a time would probably be reasonably easy. I probably would have done it by now. But the problem is then they suddenly go, “Oh, and here’s There’s a second one you have to deal with at the same time. (0:12:18) Kevin: Oh! It’s a gauntlet. (0:12:36) Al: You’re like dodging one, but as you dodge one, the other one gets you. (0:12:39) Al: You’re like, no, so it’s like there’s so many times where it’s like, I would have definitely beaten it if it weren’t for the fact that I had two at a time and stuff (0:12:46) Al: like that. So, yeah, it’s it’s pretty it’s it’s interesting how you can have that. (0:12:51) Al: Right. Like it’s not it’s not a very difficult. (0:12:52) Kevin: Oh my gosh, yeah that sounds gnarly. (0:12:53) Al: They’re not difficult bosses, but putting them all together like that makes it very (0:12:58) Al: difficult. (0:13:00) Al: So, yeah, but it’s been good fun. (0:13:02) Al: I think I’ve managed to get, uh, like four of. (0:13:06) Al: Um, so I got pretty close that time, frustratingly close, but we’ll get, we’ll get there soon, we’ll get there soon. (0:13:11) Kevin: Dang oh my god (0:13:15) Al: Um, so yeah, no, that’s really, it’s really good fun. (0:13:17) Al: Um, I’m definitely at the point in that game though, where I do not want to explore anymore, I do not want to backtrack anymore. (0:13:23) Al: Like I have done all of that. (0:13:25) Al: I just want to get to the last boss and kill him and be done with it and get onto the next game when it comes out. (0:13:30) Al: Right. (0:13:30) Al: I, the becomes a point with those games where you’re like, I’m done exploring. (0:13:34) Al: Thanks. And the problem is… (0:13:36) Al: Obviously, Medtrivenia is the whole point of them is exploring and backtracking. (0:13:39) Al: So they don’t have a lot of fast travel. (0:13:42) Al: There is some, but it’s not a lot of it. (0:13:44) Al: So you still have to do a lot of traversal of the map to get from boss to boss. (0:13:48) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, I get that. And Hollow Knight’s a special case because the DLC is just stuck in there, like, you can’t tell where the DLC is at a glance, right? (0:14:00) Kevin: There’s no DLC menu option, like, you’re doing over a hundred percent. (0:14:06) Al: Yeah, I haven’t, I haven’t even paid attention to what I’m doing there. (0:14:10) Al: I suspect at this point, I’m just, I’m going for the like final main boss. (0:14:15) Al: And if I’ve done any of the DLC stuff, then fine. (0:14:19) Al: But I don’t think I’m going to like focus on any of that. (0:14:22) Kevin: Yeah, no, no, yeah, that makes sense, it’s a wide one, it’s a big game. (0:14:26) Al: Super fun. (0:14:28) Al: All right. (0:14:28) Al: Awesome. (0:14:29) Al: Well, that’s what we’ve been up to. (0:14:30) Al: Let’s talk about some news. (0:14:32) Al: So first of all, we have just a couple of small things about spells and secrets. (0:14:36) Al: So their Xbox version is out now, and they have also said that they are not happy with the Switch version and they’ve fired their porting team and they’ve got a new porting team for the Switch version. (0:14:46) Kevin: Oh snap! (0:14:48) Al: The actual wording is we ourselves are incredibly unhappy with the Nintendo Switch (0:14:52) Al: version. This situation is incredibly frustrating for us to achieve the best possible results. (0:14:57) Al: We’ve decided to bring a new porting team on board. (0:15:01) Al: We would like to reevaluate the source code and are currently waiting for feedback on the current status of the source code. (0:15:06) Al: Well, we can’t make any current problems concrete promises at this moment. (0:15:09) Al: We remain optimistic about making positive progress. (0:15:13) Kevin: Well, I mean, hey, I salute them for wanting to improve the quality of the Switch ports aren’t always the best, so you know [laughs] (0:15:20) Al: One lonely outposts have posted a… post. They have updated us on what they’re working on and they have teased a UI overhaul. So the whole UI is getting an overhaul. (0:15:40) Kevin: That’s a big one. Probably respectable. (0:15:43) Kevin: And played it obviously. (0:15:44) Kevin: UI is a very critical… (0:15:46) Al: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I’ve not played the game. So looking at the two, I’m like, I don’t have an opinion on which I prefer because I’ve not experienced them properly. But they definitely it feels like it’s of the same style. So it doesn’t feel completely different, but it looks like they’re exactly it’s all functional stuff. Yeah. So they’re making it look I suspect it’s like UX based stuff and and things like their newest update. They’ve got the patch as far there as well. (0:16:02) Kevin: Right, it’s not like visually aesthetically. It’s more functional. (0:16:16) Al: It’s all bug fixes and small changes. (0:16:19) Al: So the link to that will be in the show notes as well. (0:16:23) Al: Orange season. (0:16:25) Al: Now, this is an incredible patch note. (0:16:28) Al: So this is version 0.11, 0.11. (0:16:32) Al: And the patch note starts off with narrative, (0:16:36) Al: added a main story. (0:16:42) Al: And I am absolutely fascinated by this. (0:16:42) Kevin: Uhh… (0:16:44) Al: Like, does this mean there was no main story? (0:16:46) Al: Or is this additional main story? (0:16:50) Al: I mean, it says, “After settling in Orange Town, your new life seems to be going fine. (0:16:55) Al: However, the previous owner of your farm returns, and he wants it back on this journey to guarantee your future. (0:17:00) Al: Your new life will mingle with a cast of strange, friendly, and conflicting personalities. (0:17:05) Al: What kind of people will you and them be at the end?” (0:17:09) Al: So this sounds to me like the game up till this point was like the daily farming aspect of things, (0:17:15) Al: but without like an overall. (0:17:16) Al: Marking story, which is an interesting way to go about it. (0:17:19) Kevin: Umm… yeah. (0:17:22) Kevin: Umm… (0:17:24) Kevin: Spoilers, Moonstone Island could use an update like this! (0:17:26) Al: Yeah, it’s interesting. Neither of us have played it, so I don’t think we have, but there you go. If you’ve been playing the game and you’re like, “This game could do with story.” (0:17:28) Kevin: That’s all I wanted to say. (0:17:32) Kevin: But it is funny to read, just added a story. (0:17:48) Al: Well, have I got good news for you? (0:17:52) Al: Speaking of having good news for you, specifically Kevin, I’ve got good news for you. (0:17:53) Kevin: Oh! (0:17:56) Kevin: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHH! (0:17:57) Kevin: I just saw the news! (0:17:58) Al: Wildflowers, the Yuri’s Salon, I think it’s Yuri, we just think it’s Yuri. (0:17:58) Kevin: AHHHHHH! (0:18:07) Kevin: Yep, I think so. Hold on, I’m listening right now. It’s in the trailer. (0:18:11) Kevin: Yeah, it’s Yuri. Okay. (0:18:12) Al: Yuri’s Salon update is out today, if you’re listening to this on the release date, so 31st of January. (0:18:20) Al: And it brings a whole new, romanceable character, and the salon that she… (0:18:30) Al: I haven’t seen anything about pronouns, but I’m assuming she… (0:18:30) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t think so (0:18:35) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:38) Kevin: So that’s (0:18:40) Kevin: RAVERS! (0:18:40) Al: This is how you do updates, right? You go, “Hey, by the way, there was a tease, right? (0:18:47) Al: So they showed a tease of the outline of the character and said someone new is moving to Fairhaven, and then posted that yes, they are romanceable. And then the next day they were like, “Oh yeah, so the release is coming next Wednesday. Cheers.” (0:19:05) Al: Yep, good, good, good, good release in full. (0:19:06) Kevin: Umm… (0:19:10) Kevin: Yep, good reveal. (0:19:12) Al: Reveal, that’s the word I’m looking for. (0:19:12) Kevin: Like, it’s… (0:19:14) Kevin: First of all, adding a new character, that’s a big deal in any farming game. (0:19:18) Al: Yeah, especially Wildflowers, because it’s very character-based. (0:19:20) Kevin: Umm… Right… (0:19:26) Kevin: Yep, very character driven, right? (0:19:28) Kevin: Like, the setting is pretty small, so they compensated that by doing a lot of interactions with the characters. (0:19:34) Kevin: Um, so that’s… (0:19:36) Kevin: That is interesting to see, also like interesting to see added at this point, right? (0:19:44) Kevin: Because like it might say if I’m already married to Ray, I’m not gonna end that for Yuri. (0:19:46) Al: Yeah, I love how you’re not even saying Wesley, you’re just saying Ray. (0:19:48) Kevin: Sorry Yuri, I’m sure you’re fine, but you know. (0:19:50) Kevin: But that said, it will be interesting to see… (0:19:56) Kevin: It’s the reason I played the game! I’ll be honest! (0:20:04) Kevin: But… (0:20:06) Kevin: But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I’m hopeful there will be other stuff sneaked in. I can’t wait to play it. (0:20:13) Kevin: I’ll fire up wildflowers again. Great, good excuse to do that again. (0:20:18) Kevin: One thing… Oh gosh, so it’s a salon, right? So you can redo… (0:20:26) Kevin: Yeah, Terry. Her name is Terry. Terry’s hair. It’s about to say Valerie. I’m mixing those two up now. (0:20:28) Al: Yeah. (0:20:32) Al: Quite a large selection of hairstyles, it looks like, and hair colors. (0:20:33) Kevin: But it’s I feel almost uncomfortable (0:20:36) Kevin: I feel so almost uncomfortable because I’m so used to that hairstyle it’s so iconic for the character whatever like you know it’s the look (0:20:44) Al: Yeah. (0:20:45) Al: Yes. (0:20:45) Al: It’s not like, it’s not like a game where you have a character customizer. (0:20:49) Al: Cause the whole point is it’s Tara’s story and you’re playing as Tara. (0:20:53) Kevin: Right. (0:20:54) Al: So like, this is the, I mean, can you change clothes? (0:20:55) Kevin: Yup. (0:20:57) Kevin: You can? Yes. (0:20:58) Al: Right. (0:20:58) Al: So there is at least some level of customization there. (0:21:00) Al: So, and it’s not like it doesn’t make sense to be able to change your hair. (0:21:01) Kevin: Yeah. (0:21:01) Kevin: Yeah. (0:21:05) Al: Like people change their hair. (0:21:06) Kevin: Yeah! (0:21:06) Al: That’s a thing that happens. (0:21:07) Kevin: Yeah! (0:21:08) Al: Uh, but I understand, I understand your concern. (0:21:08) Kevin: Yeah, you know, I… (0:21:11) Kevin: Yeah, I… (0:21:12) Kevin: Yeah, no, it makes sense. (0:21:13) Kevin: I… (0:21:14) Kevin: It’s… (0:21:15) Kevin: There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. (0:21:16) Kevin: I’m just uncomfortable with the change! (0:21:20) Kevin: I tear his blood, I don’t like it! (0:21:23) Kevin: But that said, hey, wildflowers in the news again, I’m very happy, happy day. (0:21:26) Kevin: Um, and boy, that r- that’s dropping soon, I like shadow drop like that. Good stuff, wildflowers. (0:21:32) Al: Yeah, good thing we’re doing this episode before it comes out. (0:21:37) Al: Awesome detail, we don’t have any like more details, but if we get them, we’ll put them in if there’s anything else coming in and it does, I actually didn’t check does it say, (0:21:47) Kevin: Heh heh. (0:21:48) Al: I think it’s a free update. I haven’t seen anything but it being DLC. Yeah, they’re called. (0:21:51) Kevin: I would assume so. They have not done anything paid as- (0:21:54) Al: Yeah, and they’re calling it an update. They’re saying the Wildflowers fourth update Yuri salon is coming next. I think that implies that it’s free. (0:22:02) Al: Hey, look, Re-legend. This is just a really small thing to say that they have said that they’re going to do more updates. That’s it. They’ve said that, oh, they got some money to work on the game more, so they’re going to do that. That’s it. That’s literally it. (0:22:09) Kevin: They’re going to add more buzzwords into the game. (0:22:28) Al: There was a bug fix update recently as well. (0:22:31) Kevin: I guess. (0:22:32) Al: I love some of these, I love some of these bugs in games. (0:22:36) Al: “Ensure the player’s character does not pass through the map when jumping off their magnus near the chest in the goblins resort in the desert biome.” (0:22:46) Al: That is so specific. (0:22:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:22:50) Kevin: Oh my gosh, that’s funny. (0:22:53) Kevin: Okay, what a, what a re-legend. (0:23:00) Al: The interesting thing is, I looked at the comments on Steam and they’re all positive. (0:23:08) Al: It’s like unexpected but not unwelcomed. (0:23:08) Kevin: Well, look, hold on. (0:23:10) Al: Surprising but fantastic news. (0:23:12) Al: Great news! (0:23:13) Kevin: Now hold on. (0:23:14) Al: Like there’s loads of like actual- and this is the first time I’ve seen like positive comments on anything for League of Legends for like five years! (0:23:24) Kevin: Well, I mean, you know, coming out was a good first step, right, in making positive comments, finally. (0:23:24) Al: Yes, that’s true. (0:23:32) Kevin: But, like, uh, look, alright, this is anecdotal, this is just my experience, I don’t know who anyone who’s played the game, so, you know, is it all just, uh, uh, uh, you know, fake town, and, uh, just the fake comment section by, populated by the devs, I don’t know, it’s possible, I’m just putting it out there. (0:23:40) Al: Does anyone? (0:23:54) Kevin: Did the game come out? I don’t have confirmation yet. (0:23:59) Al: And they do, there is one comment on it, which is just give them guns. (0:24:05) Al: So I think I know where that person’s, I think I know where that person’s mind is (0:24:08) Kevin: I wonder where… (0:24:10) Kevin: You know, did I tell you, or do you know why they added guns in Power World? (0:24:16) Al: That was that they’d said that they’d added it because they wanted it to be big in America basically, right? (0:24:22) Kevin: Yep, yep (0:24:23) Al: Which is like one of those things where it’s like, oh no, but also yeah (0:24:30) Kevin: They’re not wrong great like that’s the reaction like oh, but they’re not wrong (0:24:36) Al: Yeah My time at Sandrock They’ve got some plushies. So if you are really if you really love them my time at Sandrock characters (0:24:39) Kevin: Boy (0:24:46) Al: They have (0:24:46) Kevin: Wait that the characters they’re not creatures or animals (0:24:49) Al: They’re they’re the characters Logan and Fang just of course you don’t you’ve not played the game (0:24:57) Al: They’ve also got some figurines (0:25:02) Kevin: Terrawiobush, where’s that? (0:25:04) Al: Not on the my time at Sandrock page (0:25:09) Al: Speaking of plushies paleopines (0:25:12) Al: teasing some plushies Not out yet, but they teased our little foot (0:25:12) Kevin: What? What? (0:25:16) Al: of a plushie, a little foot and a back covered in spikes. (0:25:25) Kevin: I’m so excited. I wonder what dinos can’t tell based based off. Oh, I’m excited The dinosaurs are very well very likely get one (0:25:34) Al: Apparently, if you go on the on their link tree, they’ve already leaked what it is. (0:25:40) Al: It’s a carrot Anki. (0:25:42) Kevin: WHAT?! (0:25:42) Al: Anki, is it an Ankiosaurus? (0:25:44) Al: Sorry, Ankiosaurus. (0:25:45) Kevin: Oh yeah, probably ink. (0:25:46) Al: Anki-lo-saurus. (0:25:48) Kevin: Yeah, okay, yeah, oh, that’s a- (0:25:48) Al: Coming soon. (0:25:50) Al: I love that. (0:25:52) Al: It’s like they’ve got the link basically with the image, not the image of the actual plush, but the image of the what it is. (0:25:52) Kevin: Let’s make ship. (0:25:58) Al: And you click through it and it’s like, oh, campaign launches in four days and 19 hours. (0:26:10) Al: Thursday. Chia the game based on New Caledonia have released a cool new update or are going to release a cool new update in March which gives you well I guess let’s go let’s go the context of this game so this game is an explorationy type game but one of the big features of the game is you can jump into nature items so animals. (0:26:40) Al: animals and plants and stuff like that you can it’s called soul jumping and you have like a certain as you play the game you like build up your soul meter and you can use that to jump into animals and stuff like that. (0:26:53) Al: They are adding in the infinite soul meter so they say this comfort setting allows you to soul jump to your heart’s content without worrying about your meter depleting be a bird forever or a coconut or anything for that matter we’re happy. (0:27:07) Al: or if you like, it feels like a great. (0:27:10) Al: I mean, they say it’s not suggested for your first playthrough of the game, but. (0:27:16) Al: Do what you want. (0:27:17) Al: They’ve not stopped it. (0:27:18) Al: Like you can do it straight away. (0:27:19) Al: And if you just want to grab the jump in a bird and fly around this map forever, (0:27:24) Al: you can do that. (0:27:24) Al: And I think it’s pretty cool. (0:27:27) Al: Yeah, yeah. (0:27:30) Al: Spirit tea, spirit tea, spirit tea have added item stacking. (0:27:36) Kevin: That feels like that should have been addressed a while ago. (0:27:42) Kevin: Don’t have that at the feet. (0:27:44) Al: really wanted to like this. And it’s good in some ways, but yeah, like there’s a lot of quality of life things that it doesn’t have that a lot of games have that makes me struggle, struggle to enjoy it as much. This was one of them, so they have removed it now, but I don’t know if I’m going to go back to it or not. They’ve also listed a bunch of stuff that they’re going to add. If you are enjoying the game. There you go. You can go. (0:28:05) Kevin: Whatever that means. (0:28:14) Al: Oh, look at the list of things they’re adding. (0:28:16) Al: Oh (0:28:16) Kevin: Speaking of enjoying games, uh, you know, Bev and, uh, Johnny enjoyed Stardew in last week’s episode. (0:28:25) Kevin: It was a great listen, good episode. (0:28:27) Kevin: And you know, I think some guy out there named Concerned Date saw that, I was like, “Oh, (0:28:33) Kevin: well if they harvest season reach 1.5, we can’t have them staying current!” (0:28:38) Kevin: So he drops the news! (0:28:40) Kevin: 1.6 is on its way, baby! (0:28:43) Al: Yeah, I mean, so like there’s not actually much news in this because we already knew it was coming. (0:28:48) Al: We already knew there was stuff in it. But he says 1.6 ended up being a little larger in scope than originally planned. Yeah, who knows what earth is happening here? He says this is the key bit here. (0:28:55) Kevin: little larger with concern to (0:29:05) Al: I’m done adding major new content to it now and it’s in a bug fixing and polishing phase until is ready for release. Thanks for your patience. (0:29:13) Al: It’ll be fun to see everyone play. He does say in the comments that it should come out, (0:29:18) Al: he says absolutely will come out in 2024. It will come to PC first. There shouldn’t be a big delay between PC and console/mobile. I think with the 1.5 update, it was a two-month delay between Steam and Switch, which is not too bad. The mobile one was the one that I think it was like three years to get for it to come to mobile. So hopefully that will be faster. (0:29:43) Al: He does say it will be fine to play this on an old save, but I’d probably recommend a new save just to experience everything in context, otherwise you’ll unlock a bunch of stuff right away when you load up your save. And I read that and went, great, that’s much quicker to cover all the new content for the episode! [LAUGHTER] (0:30:02) Kevin: Yeah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (0:30:05) Al: So there has been a bunch of things that he listed on, where is it? A new festival. (0:30:13) Al: Which I think we’re pretty convinced now that’s the New Year festival. Two new mini festivals. (0:30:19) Al: New late game content which expands on each of the skill areas. New items and crafting recipes. There’s a totem there, so presumably another warp totem of some kind or something like that. And what looks like a quiver, as in for archery. Georgia alternatives to some of the end game quests. 100 plus new lines of dialogue. Winter outfits for the villagers. (0:30:43) Al: New type of reward for completing billboard requests. Support for eight player multiplayer on PC. And I love right at the end he puts new farm type. Just casually adding that at the end of this massive list. Oh yeah, there’s going to be a new farm as well. I wouldn’t be concerned about him. He’s fine. He’s got a lot of money. (0:31:08) Kevin: I mean… (0:31:10) Kevin: No, I know he’s fine. I’m just concerned what he’s doing to him. Geez. (0:31:15) Kevin: Um, I can’t uh… (0:31:17) Kevin: But hey, 8-player farm. We can get all- we can finally have the all the harvest season hosts on one episode. (0:31:20) Al: Oh dear, yeah, so anyway, it’s coming this year and it’s feature complete, so hopefully it’s going to end up coming, releasing like when, during the month and the summer when I’m away, isn’t it? (0:31:24) Kevin: Live commentary as he started far. (0:31:43) Al: All right, so you might think that’s all the news. (0:31:46) Al: That’s not all the news. (0:31:47) Al: four new games as well to talk about. (0:31:51) Al: Oh yes! So, first of all we have Southfield. The little blurb for this one is ‘Weird farming meets silly physics in Southfield. Combine chaotic crops with unpredictable effects, (0:32:07) Al: build your dream farmstead and experiment with playful machinery. Wobble your way around an ever-changing island solo or with up to three friends and unearth its secrets.’ Now, we quite (0:32:21) Al: too many farming games and they don’t do interesting things. (0:32:24) Kevin: That’s true. Southfield said, “What if we do the exact opposite?” (0:32:25) Al: This game here does say that. So, this is this I love. I need to play this game. (0:32:33) Kevin: Alright, I do too. Okay, I’m gonna start with the big hook, and that’s the main character. It’s a (0:32:40) Kevin: big blue (0:32:43) Kevin: gumdrop head looking blob man with big eyes, and that’s kind of it. (0:32:49) Kevin: He’s humanoid he has arms and legs (0:32:51) Kevin: and a head with eyes and a little (0:32:54) Kevin: Pikmin type leaf on top just a little one little sprout (0:32:58) Al: Pretty generic. (0:32:58) Kevin: and he’s big (0:33:00) Kevin: Yeah, but he’s big and cartoony and the way he runs around his dynamic proportions and style fitting very much with the quote-unquote Weird there’s silly physics. It’s great. He does like big bounces spins, or he does like full-on tornado (0:33:16) Kevin: He rolls around in a ball at one- (0:33:19) Al: Yep, he rides on a quad bike you got quad bikes in this game (0:33:19) Kevin: Armadillo style. (0:33:21) Kevin: He does. (0:33:23) Kevin: Yep, he’s chopping down trees. (0:33:25) Kevin: The trees are actually falling. (0:33:27) Kevin: Not just poof, here’s your logs. (0:33:29) Kevin: They’re timbering over. (0:33:31) Kevin: Um… (0:33:32) Al: There’s an electric chicken that you’re carrying, you’re chasing and you get electrocuted by. (0:33:33) Kevin: logs you there they’re timbering over (0:33:40) Al: You can throw an axe to cut down fruit. (0:33:42) Kevin: You can get frozen into ice cubes. (0:33:45) Kevin: You can throw one of your fellow blob people full on hurricane spins rocks. (0:33:51) Kevin: There’s a fruit growing to gigantic proportions. (0:33:54) Kevin: I don’t know why. (0:33:56) Al: The machinery looks fun. (0:33:58) Kevin: So this is interesting because there’s conveyor belts and things presumably for automatizing things and whatnot. (0:34:05) Kevin: But because of the weird effects, they’re just this physics that like fruits and crops are just bouncing on the conveyors. (0:34:12) Al: And it’s a bunch of the machinery that seems to be like cannons as well So it’s like leaning into I just I love everything about this. This is fantastic. I need this game (0:34:12) Kevin: so, are you… (0:34:16) Kevin: yup (0:34:20) Kevin: it’s so good right and and like even and there’s crafting there’s you can build a house and other stuff um there’s you know your plots and your farms but like every crop I don’t think i’ve (0:34:40) Kevin: It’s big, it’s cartoony, it’s colorful, it’s fun. (0:34:44) Kevin: Southfield looks amazing! (0:34:46) Kevin: Um… (0:34:47) Al: There’s also some some buildings so you can like kind of, I guess, Fortnite-esque type building, right. You’ve got your your your wall, you put up your wall and you put up your roof properly designing your house how you want. (0:35:05) Al: Yep, this one is coming soon. And as of now, I only see information about it coming to Steam on Windows. (0:35:13) Al: Yep, this one’s going on the list, I’m definitely, I’m definitely playing this one. (0:35:17) Al: Next, we have, Sugar Dew Island, now, so, before, yeah, so the name, the name is terrible, (0:35:19) Kevin: Yup. (0:35:24) Kevin: Oh boy, oh boy, just they’re coming out swinging with that name. Oh boy. (0:35:32) Al: right? (0:35:33) Al: Let’s just get out of the way. (0:35:35) Al: It’s Stardew Valley versus Coral Island, right? (0:35:38) Al: Like it’s just, like where is all they, what’s, what’s with the name? (0:35:40) Kevin: No… (0:35:41) Al: It’s bad. (0:35:43) Kevin: I- (0:35:44) Kevin: Island’s overdone, but at least it’s an actual thing, right? (0:35:48) Kevin: I’m gonna put my foot down, draw the line in the sand. (0:35:51) Kevin: I don’t think any farming game should ever have the “do” in its name. Ever. Again. (0:35:54) Al: Whatever it is, is a bad name, right? Just whatever. One of the comments on YouTube is, (0:35:57) Kevin: Just… (0:35:58) Kevin: Just don’t try. (0:36:06) Al: “One might consider there’s a copy of Stardew, shut up.” So, one interesting thing just before we actually talk about the game is, I feel like this has been shared, it’s been advertised on every single Kickstarter game update. (0:36:24) Al: I have seen in the last one exactly every single one of them they seem to be talking about this. (0:36:26) Kevin: I saw it on a link on one of the earlier news article links I put and clicked on. (0:36:33) Al: I am fascinated about by this like what is the deal behind this game? (0:36:38) Kevin: Raid Shadow Legends. (0:36:39) Al: So let’s do the usual blurb in this cozy farming game you have to run your own farm shop take care of your animals and your farm sell your goods to the cute forest folk (0:36:51) Al: upgrade the island and fulfill smart. (0:36:54) Al: No, fulfill small orders from the Harmony Tree to fill the island with life again. (0:37:00) Al: Nothing about this seems unique. (0:37:03) Al: Comparing to the previous one, this just looks like it’s a farming game. (0:37:04) Kevin: nope I yep the the one oh gosh even the four quote-unquote force folk just look like harvest sprites the one thing I will say I I have one thing I’ve wanted is to run the shop the shipping bin that’s it I don’t know if (0:37:08) Al: Hey look, it’s a harvest moon. (0:37:30) Al: Yeah, this is the thing about those is, so Ooblets had a way to do that, and there’s been a couple of other games where there’s been a little bit of it, and it always just feels to me like it’s just a really inefficient way of selling things, right? Because you have to go in and you put a few things out in the shop, and then you have to like, you either, they either implement like a haggling thing, in which case I always feel like I’m not getting as much as I could, or it just ends up being why can’t I just throw these in the shipping box, right? (0:38:00) Al: I don’t feel like any of them have ever done it well, (0:38:04) Al: and I’m not sure I trust this. (0:38:06) Kevin: I I don’t think not off not what I’m looking because like you know thinking farms like you’re growing (0:38:13) Kevin: Huge amounts of crops rolling bulk and so like I don’t know but (0:38:16) Kevin: Yeah, the shop doesn’t need that’s the add more to that because otherwise boy This much like its name takes after a lot of other games a boy am I look (0:38:28) Kevin: Studio Ghibli has amazing art stuff, but boy. I’m I tired of seeing that (0:38:34) Kevin: aesthetic in these games. (0:38:36) Al: Yeah, it’s not like it looks bad or anything, but it’s not and and the game doesn’t actually look like the trailer Right the trailer is completely like just random animated stuff (0:38:36) Kevin: Um… (0:38:38) Kevin: No! (0:38:46) Al: Well, I know it does have some of the gameplay, but like it starts off with that style (0:38:48) Kevin: Well, presumably we’re not 100% sure, but (0:38:51) Al: It’s a completely different style than the I suspect actually (0:38:54) Kevin: Yeah, true true (0:38:56) Al: It looks fine. It’s not like it looks bad (0:38:59) Kevin: Yeah, it just (0:38:59) Al: But nothing about it can especially comparing it to what we just talked about nothing about this excites (0:39:05) Kevin: Yeah, no, it’s it’s it looks fine, but not bringing anything new to the table. It’s a tough market (0:39:13) Kevin: Gotta do a bit more to (0:39:14) Al: Anyway, the Kickstarter is launching soon. (0:39:19) Al: Apparently, Steam says its planned release is Q2 this year, presumably that’s Early Access, (0:39:26) Al: but it doesn’t say on Steam that it’s going to be Early Access. (0:39:29) Al: I’m assuming they aren’t doing a Kickstarter to then release the full version in a matter of months. (0:39:37) Al: You would think not, but who knows. (0:39:41) Al: I noticed is Roca play. (0:39:43) Al: Uh, they. (0:39:44) Al: Are they a publisher or are they a developer? (0:39:48) Al: I’m not actually sure. (0:39:49) Al: They look to be both, but they did spells and secrets. (0:39:54) Al: They’ve done solar punk and they did, um, Oh, what was that one? (0:40:01) Al: There was another one that was like a, an island based one where you were like a pirate and you crashed into the island. (0:40:08) Al: And no, I don’t mean, and I realized that sounds exactly like the start of Dragon Quest Builders 2. (0:40:17) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t, um… (0:40:19) Kevin: Lose Lagoon? (0:40:21) Kevin: Castaway Paradise? (0:40:22) Al: Castaway Paradise. No, that’s not the one I was meaning, but that is another one that they’ve done. (0:40:25) Kevin: Stranded Sales. (0:40:27) Al: Stranded Sales. Yes, there we go. They did Strand- (0:40:29) Kevin: Oh my gosh, they… (0:40:31) Kevin: They actually have a game called Harvest Life. (0:40:34) Kevin: Oh my goodness. (0:40:36) Al: So, yeah, they did Beasties as well, which was the one that went on Kickstarter and then they cancelled the Kickstarter. (0:40:43) Al: And I don’t know, it’s a weird company. (0:40:46) Al: They have such an interesting mix of things that become really popular and things that are just really weird. (0:40:52) Al: Like Spells and Secrets has very positive reviews. (0:40:54) Al: It’s like 80% positive reviews on. (0:40:57) Al: And then Beasties has 50% rating. (0:41:00) Al: And she’s just like, that is such a big difference. (0:41:03) Al: They also have Super Dungeon Maker, which is like a… (0:41:06) Al: Zelda-style dungeon Mario Maker type thing, which has very positive reviews, it’s 84% positive. (0:41:17) Al: And Stranded Sales was… (0:41:19) Al: It was a game. (0:41:24) Kevin: That was a game. That feels like a few of these you could- (0:41:27) Al: Yeah, so like, you never quite know what you’re getting at Rokka Play. (0:41:31) Al: So, yeah, I guess we’ll see what happens. (0:41:36) Al: The punk hasn’t even come out yet, although it looks like they’re just publishing it, they aren’t… (0:41:40) Al: So I don’t… Yeah. (0:41:42) Al: There’s a lot of stuff. I’m not particularly excited about this one. (0:41:47) Al: But it is coming to Steam on Windows, Switch, PlayStation, and maybe Xbox. (0:41:53) Al: I don’t know whether that will be as a stretch goal, but it says Xbox question mark. (0:42:00) Al: So… (0:42:02) Al: Next, we have Sunkist City. (0:42:06) Al: life sim set in an upbeat sun-kissed seaside metropolis full of funky vibes and quirky characters. Stake out your new life in the city, tending to DIY gardens, learning new skills and making lifelong friends and help bring life back to its once vibrant streets.” (0:42:26) Kevin: I don’t know. (0:42:28) Kevin: I can’t tell if this game looks good or bad. (0:42:31) Al: So, well, let’s just put it, it is almost exactly this. (0:42:36) Al: Stardew style. Imagine Stardew, it’s that. It looks like that, but it’s based in a city, (0:42:47) Al: not a small village. Every single thing I see, it just looks, you could tell me this was a Stardew and I’d go, “Oh, they changed the UI at some point.” That’s what I would do. The keg looks almost identical and the cheese press looks very similar and like these things (0:43:06) Al: and that’s not necessarily a bad thing right like stardew did very well uh but I feel like (0:43:14) Al: what is this doing that would make me play it rather than stardew and i (0:43:19) Kevin: quirky character whatever they don’t seem particular one has blue hair they (0:43:22) Al: look characters are hard to do well and I the problem is that I i don’t think you can do i don’t think I don’t think many people could do stardew and I think many people could make stardew (0:43:36) Al: but not as well and that’s what this strikes me at it doesn’t look bad but I i’m really fascinated as to why I would want to play this rather than stardew is the story really good are the characters really good that’s what i’d probably be looking for (0:43:40) Kevin: Yeah, that’s a very good way. (0:43:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:43:54) Kevin: Mmm. (0:43:54) Kevin: Yeah, because you’re right, like, I… (0:43:57) Kevin: I see absolutely nothing… (0:44:06) Kevin: Asphalt in this setting like there’s (0:44:06) Al: Yeah, yeah. And some buildings that look run down. There’s a ramen place. Okay. (0:44:11) Kevin: Yep, it’s (0:44:13) Kevin: Yep, that’s that’s kind of it. I don’t mechanically. I don’t see anything. I see fishing There’s no some type of gardening slash farming you even carry the items over your head all a stardew [laughs] (0:44:26) Al: Yeah, like the last game someone said it looks like a copy of Stardew, now this looks like a copy of Stardew, right? I don’t, again, I don’t want to like harp on it too much because like I’m sure it would be fun to play and I don’t want to put people down and I hope that, (0:44:42) Kevin: Yeah, again, it doesn’t look bad, but just… (0:44:43) Al: I hope that they’re successful but I just, (0:44:47) Kevin: It’s not standing out, right? (0:44:48) Kevin: And again, this is very… (0:44:50) Kevin: The cottagecore farming space, getting all buzzwordy here. (0:44:54) Kevin: Like it’s, it’s flooded with starting. (0:44:56) Kevin: It’s bad. (0:44:58) Kevin: So you’re going to put one out. (0:44:59) Kevin: You really need roots of Pacha. (0:45:01) Kevin: Do it in the Stone Age. (0:45:02) Kevin: Okay. (0:45:02) Kevin: And that’s something different. (0:45:04) Kevin: And it mechanically affects it, right? (0:45:07) Kevin: You have mam and stuff like it’s appropriate, but here in the city, (0:45:12) Kevin: you’re really just not seeing anything, uh, and again, this is just based off a handful of, uh, screenshots. (0:45:18) Kevin: So, you know, I could be speaking a bit too early, but I’m just not… (0:45:23) Al: So the interesting thing is, this is this developer’s second game, their first game came out in 2016, with its last update coming out in 2018. (0:45:32) Al: So I feel like they finished off that game, they saw Stardew Valley, and they’ve been working on that since then. (0:45:38) Al: Because Stardew got really popular in 2017, so just as they were finishing off. (0:45:44) Kevin: yeah that looks that’s exactly what it looks like ‘cause this is and their first game is wildly different called wasted it’s a post-apocalyptic pub crawler it’s in 3d and it’s a very wild looking game it does absolutely one thousand percent not cottagecore at all but uh… (0:45:58) Al: That looks more interesting to me. (0:46:05) Kevin: different game [laughter] (0:46:08) Al: Yeah, I don’t. Anyway, it’s there. It’s coming to Steam on all the platforms. So we’ll see, (0:46:18) Al: I guess. And the final one is Abyss New Dawn. Names, really? Names again, right? Like, is this a… Abyss New… It’s just games in general. But this is the thing. Why is it abyss new dawn. This makes it sound like it’s a second (0:46:28) Kevin: Why did it have to be so bad in this space? Why? (0:46:38) Al: abyss game, right? But also secondly, this describes i

First, we explore the often-avoided topic of long-term care. While many of us prefer not to think about it, the reality is that we're living longer lives, and that means we need our retirement savings to stretch as far as we do. Unexpected medical expenses, especially those related to long-term care, can take a significant toll on your finances. We discuss a recent client case where an addition of $800,000 to their portfolio ensured they were prepared for long-term care expenses, granting them financial security. We also share a cautionary tale of someone who had a million-dollar portfolio but was unprepared for the financial strain of a prolonged illness. The lack of a comprehensive plan to address long-term care led to significant financial difficulties for the family. It's a stark reminder of why addressing long-term care in your retirement plan is crucial. The financial landscape is ever-changing, and there are new opportunities to optimize your retirement plan. It's essential to explore all options to ensure your financial security in your golden years.  If you're retired or nearing retirement, call Kevin NOW to schedule a Portfolio Review!   

Kev and Kelly do a second harvest of Graveyard Keeper Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:17: What Have We Been Up To 00:06:11: News 00:34:56: Graveyard Keeper 01:14:29: Outro Links Coral Island 1.0 Moonlight in Garland Early Access Sun Haven 1.3 Update Fabledom Fairytales & Community Update Moonstone Island Eerie Items DLC Lonesome Village Physical Edition Garden Story Translation Update Fantastic Haven Graveyard Keeper Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:32) Kevin: this is kelly ween this is kelly ween kelly ween kelly ween and in this show uh we talk about games that are filled with cottage gore yeah hi everyone welcome to the harvest season um with me today is kelly i’m kevin she’s actually gonna be here for well spoilers but then she’s gonna be on next week too she were on last week I bring it up because last year you were on for Halloween we did Cult of the Land. (0:00:47) Kelly: Hey. (0:00:57) Kelly: Oh, I forgot about that. (0:01:02) Kevin: And so, yeah, so, well, that’s exactly right. (0:01:03) Kelly: Is this just like my thing? (0:01:07) Kevin: Um, yeah, you’re Kelly our pumpkin queen. (0:01:10) Kevin: So here we are. (0:01:11) Kevin: Um, she’s all about this stuff. (0:01:14) Kevin: And so we are here today to talk about graveyard keeper, another, um, cottage gore game, um, technically this is a second harvest episode. (0:01:25) Kevin: Uh, Raschelle covered it way back. (0:01:28) Kevin: Like the first Halloween episode. (0:01:32) Kevin: And so I knew about it for years, but I didn’t get a chance to play it until recently. (0:01:37) Kevin: Um, and Kelly has played it significantly. (0:01:40) Kevin: Um, yeah. (0:01:40) Kelly: I only got out of it though last year. I was very new to it, so… (0:01:44) Kevin: Well, still more than I have. (0:01:49) Kevin: I’ve only played, uh, just a handful, relatively speaking. (0:01:51) Kevin: Um, but yeah, that’s, uh, we will get to that soon enough. (0:01:58) Kevin: Um, but before that, as always. (0:02:02) Kevin: Show notes and links and the transcripts are all available on the website for people to see and look at and on. (0:02:09) Kevin: Ooh, and whatnot. (0:02:11) Kevin: Um, and, uh, before the graveyard keeper will do news as always. (0:02:17) Kevin: And more importantly, what have you been up to Kelly? (0:02:19) Kevin: What have you been playing, watching, doing, yada, yada. (0:02:21) Kelly: Um, playing? I’ve really been slacking. I’ve been playing solitaire in Pokemon Go, which is not… It is, but I just… I get stuck playing it, and like, it’s fun, but I’m also like, I could be playing something better. (0:02:37) Kevin: Yeah, I mean it’s like comfort food sometimes it just it’s simple and I get it Exactly sometimes you just need a mindless game Okay, okay madman okay, I have not watched it. I’m familiar with it. That’s the one with That’s the one like 50s (0:02:37) Kelly: Um… [laughs] (0:02:39) Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s like, thoughtless. Um… (0:02:50) Kelly: But I just… (0:02:51) Kelly: I rewatched Mad Men, so that I think is more exciting. (0:03:05) Kelly: yeah like 60s advertising, yeah. (0:03:05) Kevin: add agency right (0:03:07) Kevin: 60s okay all right how how mm-hmm how long is it like the whole thing oh wow that’s longer than expected well that’s cool yeah sure (0:03:07) Kelly: uh I was a big fan when it came out. (0:03:12) Kelly: uh it’s like seven seasons I think? yeah seven seasons. (0:03:18) Kelly: yeah when I first ran I jumped ship like I think after season five. (0:03:25) Kelly: uh I mean it’s not the worst last two seasons but they’re not as good. (0:03:32) Kelly: Good. (0:03:34) Kevin: Um, let’s see, uh, well, I’ve last week we covered paleo pines actually kept up with it a good bit after There was a patch that dropped It’s been a big dinosaur for a week for me. I watched Jurassic Park this week again - (0:03:35) Kelly: What about you? What have you been up to? (0:03:52) Kevin: Boy, that movie’s real good good other than that Yesterday I cried that Super Mario wonder it just came out yesterday (0:04:04) Kevin: the newest one for this switch and It’s a good one Um, I’ll plug the rainbow road radio the other show I do with our mutual friend Alex We did our first look at it on that show. We just recorded and that’ll be dropping soon It’s fantastic it’s There’s I’m only a little bit in like on the second world but like every (0:04:23) Kelly: What do you think of it? (0:04:34) Kevin: level feels like it is introducing something new and different and I mean classic Mario is good you know 2d it’s your standard 2d Mario and whatnot so the gameplay is good and it’s just filled with all sorts of fun surprises and delights I’m going to spoil people on probably the best part that I’ve experienced so far there’s this level it’s like the second or third level you can do. (0:05:04) Kevin: There’s a bunch of piranha plants popping out of the pipes and you run and jump past them and whatnot. (0:05:09) Kevin: And then there’s the Wonder Flower which changes the level in different ways or whatnot. (0:05:15) Kevin: So when you touch the Wonder Flower, it starts this musical production and all the piranha plants just start singing. (0:05:23) Kevin: And it’s incredible, you entice everyone to at least look it up. (0:05:29) Kelly: I actually, I saw it on TikTok this morning and I was like, hmm, okay. (0:05:30) Kevin: It’s just so much fun. (0:05:34) Kevin: It’s so, because it just, right? (0:05:37) Kelly: Very much unexpected. (0:05:38) Kelly: I thought it was like somebody made it at first, like, you know, somebody edited it. (0:05:41) Kevin: Yep, it’s so out of the blue. (0:05:42) Kelly: But no, it was real. (0:05:45) Kevin: Yeah, no, it’s good. (0:05:48) Kevin: It’s really funny and yeah, the game just brings smiles to me every level with all sorts of unexpected twists and turns like that. (0:05:56) Kevin: So yeah, Mario Wonder, two thumbs up for me for sure. (0:05:59) Kevin: Like I said, people can go to Rainbow World Radio to hear more in-depth thoughts. (0:06:04) Kevin: But, yeah, that’s mostly what I’ve been up to. (0:06:08) Kevin: And now, with that, let’s hop on over to the news. (0:06:15) Kevin: We have, as always, a handful of, mostly game updates. (0:06:19) Kevin: Yeah, there’s a lot of game updates for some reason right now. (0:06:24) Kevin: So we’re going to start off talking about Coral Island. (0:06:30) Kevin: Okay, the one, okay, this is a big one. (0:06:34) Kevin: For people who may not remember, Coral Island is your standard Stardew-esque, well, I say standard. (0:06:40) Kevin: It’s got all your fixings, your farming, and it’s on an island, hence the name, right? (0:06:46) Kevin: So it has the tropical aesthetic and whatnot. (0:06:51) Kevin: But the big news is the 1.0 version is launching on November 14th, which is exciting. (0:06:58) Kevin: They have a trailer, and it looks expansive. (0:07:05) Kevin: There’s a lot going on. You have your farm, you can go underwater, you can meet mermaids, you can do your romancing, (0:07:12) Kevin: you can do, I think there’s even a race in there somewhere. All that good stuff. (0:07:18) Kevin: It looks very polished and like a 1.0 game. You can also… (0:07:22) Kelly: Yeah, I was going to say, it definitely looks like there’s, it looks a lot different than like the first, you know, clips I saw of it. (0:07:30) Kevin: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, it’s definitely a game now, for a better way of putting it. (0:07:36) Kelly: Yeah. (0:07:37) Kevin: And you can also dress up as a panda or dinosaur, so you know, there’s a lot going on there. You also get your little animal crossing, you can redecorate your house wherever you want. (0:07:49) Kevin: Oh, you can even have a baby in this, that’s wild. Yeah, that is dropping on November 14th, (0:07:58) Kevin: just a couple of weeks and it will be dropping on Steam, Xbox Series X/S, and PS5 they’re hoping for a 2024 release for a Switch version. Do you think you’ll try Coral Island or look in its general (0:08:12) Kelly: I think I might. I think it definitely looks really cute. I think it depends on if I’m playing anything, you know, when it comes out. I’m trying so hard not to, like, backlog myself. (0:08:22) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that’s the hard part right too many games Yeah, no, that’s that’s a good idea I definitely have bought back So I respect that I think you can romance a mermaid so, you know, I’m not that going free I wonder how that’s gonna work. How are they gonna move up the land or vice versa? (0:08:43) Kevin: It’s a two-story floor but the bottom floor is underwater [laugh] (0:08:44) Kelly: just uh living in a two separate homes kind of situation there you go (0:08:52) Kevin: I’m down for that, um, yeah, right now it’s only 25 bucks, oh that’s not bad for this, that’s, that looks like a lot of content for 25 bucks, so, um, get excited. (0:09:06) Kevin: Um, oh, oh yeah, okay, sure, yep, that makes sense, that’s fair. (0:09:07) Kelly: Oh, it does say it’s going to release, I think, at $30, though. (0:09:11) Kelly: There’s a note about the price adjustment. (0:09:14) Kelly: But the diving looks really cool. (0:09:16) Kelly: I played a lot of Dave the Diver over the summer, (0:09:19) Kelly: so I feel like I’m still looking for games where I can go exploring like that. (0:09:19) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good. (0:09:23) Kevin: Yeah, it does look good for like the animation stuff. (0:09:29) Kevin: I’m also a big fan of underwater type games and it looks very expansive down there. (0:09:35) Kevin: So yeah, there’s a post on Steam page with all the updates and everything. You guys can check it out. (0:09:44) Kevin: If you do have early access, it looks like there will be a save reset. (0:09:53) Kevin: So there is that. But, either way, November 14th, I look forward to it. I might actually check it out now. It looks pretty… (0:10:00) Kevin: So, next up we have Moonlight and Garland. (0:10:06) Kevin: I don’t know if this is a game announced, but it’s… (0:10:09) Kevin: Yeah, I guess it is, because they’re announcing their early access October 24th, which will probably already be out by the time people are listening to this. (0:10:18) Kevin: This is… here, let me read their, uh… (0:10:22) Kevin: The elevator pitch, where is it? (0:10:24) Kevin: A cozy open-ended life sim about finding your feet in the big city, decorate your apartment, make new friends, grow too many houseplants, and love your city life. (0:10:33) Kevin: Um, so it… yeah, it’s… it’s city-based, right? So you’re in an apartment, you’re not running a whole farm, but you can grow plants, you can have pets, um, make relationships and whatnot. (0:10:46) Kevin: The art style is… (0:10:48) Kelly: That’s the most realistic farming sim. (0:10:52) Kevin: » [LAUGH] (0:10:54) Kevin: » No, you’re right. (0:10:59) Kevin: » Yeah, yeah, Kelly can. (0:11:00) Kevin: Well, no, you’re in the house now, you’re not in an apartment anymore. (0:11:03) Kelly: No, but definitely, you know, went through that also, like, how do I keep my plans alive in my apartment when there’s no sun? (0:11:04) Kevin: But yeah, you know the feeling. (0:11:12) Kevin: Man, gosh, you’re super right. (0:11:16) Kevin: Boy, there’s a person showing an apartment with a lot of bunnies in their apartment, that seems difficult. (0:11:23) Kevin: You’re gonna have that many bunnies in an apartment. (0:11:26) Kevin: The art style is, it’s 2D pixelated, but it’s not Stardew-esque. (0:11:31) Kevin: It’s a little more cutesy than that, and I don’t know how to best describe it. (0:11:35) Kevin: And all the NPCs are kind of bobbing their head at the same time to some unknown beat, it is cute looking. (0:11:43) Kevin: And it’s only the early access, so I’m sure it’ll grow considerably more. (0:11:51) Kevin: That is, you know. (0:11:52) Kevin: October 23rd? 24th? I’m seeing two different days. (0:11:58) Kelly: I definitely want to follow up on it because just looking at the coming soon photo, it’s like why is there an iguana on the sidewalk? (0:12:06) Kevin: Hahaha! (0:12:06) Kelly: Can I have an iguana? (0:12:07) Kevin: Wait, you havin’ a guana? (0:12:08) Kelly: And then there’s also the bear man. (0:12:10) Kevin: Wait, wait, wait, wait, let me see, which one are you talkin’ about? (0:12:10) Kelly: I’m on the steam page, the early access release. (0:12:14) Kevin: What? (0:12:15) Kevin: Okay, okay, let me see… (0:12:17) Kelly: So in the coming soon photo that says steam early access, October 24th, whatever, wishlist now. (0:12:27) Kevin: Okay, okay. Oh, I’m looking at the wrong page. I would explain it wouldn’t it? Yup. There it is. Okay Yeah, I was looking the wrong page. There is a bear man. Why is there a bear man? (0:12:28) Kelly: There’s a bear man in the iguana, like do I get a pet iguana, do I get pet pigeons? (0:12:37) Kevin: Okay, I Okay, I want to mine a department full of pet iguanas that that I can do they’re pretty low-key There are pigeons. So, you know, definitely, you know, they’re hitting Oh, are they gonna have the the trash bags out on the sidewalk? (0:12:55) Kevin: Are they gonna go all in on the city? (0:12:57) Kevin: I don’t know if garland is a city name. It’s a city in texas. I know that much. (0:13:11) Kelly: Yeah. (laughs) (0:13:28) Kevin: But yeah, coming soon, early access. (0:13:31) Kevin: Next up, the clip side of early access, we got DLC patches, whatever you want to call it, for Sunhaven. (0:13:39) Kevin: This is the magical-esque farm where you do magic, there’s monsters, dragons, etc. (0:13:51) Kevin: It is patch 1.3, which includes new buildings. (0:13:58) Kevin: There are several that don’t look human, one is an angel, just straight up an angel. (0:14:04) Kevin: One guy is blue, he’s a moon attendant, whatever that means. (0:14:11) Kevin: You have to, they will be unlockable at some point, but that’s fascinating, dating non-humans like that. (0:14:20) Kevin: Oh, they will have a couple of other romancibles coming later this year. (0:14:28) Kevin: They will also have new farm structures and buildings. (0:14:32) Kevin: Greenhouses, silos, chicken coops, butterfly gardens, I like that. You don’t see that in farming games. (0:14:38) Kelly: That’s very unique, yeah. (0:14:40) Kevin: That’s cute, I love a butterfly garden. (0:14:44) Kevin: Monocyphoners, glorite siphoners, I don’t know what they are, workshops, and ticket counterfeiters. (0:14:54) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but you’re counterfeiting. (0:14:57) Kevin: They’re up to crimes. I like that. (0:14:59) Kevin: I want to know why you can do crimes. (0:15:01) Kevin: Tickets for what? (0:15:03) Kevin: I don’t think they’re concert tickets. (0:15:05) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:15:07) Kevin: But yeah, there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. (0:15:10) Kelly: A lot of stuff. There’s like a ghost shed kit? I want a ghost shed. (0:15:11) Kevin: What does that mean? (0:15:18) Kevin: Do you keep ghosts in there? (0:15:19) Kelly: You grow them in there, maybe? (0:15:21) Kevin: I don’t… (0:15:23) Kevin: Oh wait, there are variations. (0:15:25) Kevin: variations because there’s pumpkin and mushroom. (0:15:27) Kevin: It looks like a ghost, oh I see it. (0:15:29) Kevin: Yeah, it has the eyes, the windows look like eyes and the glow, okay. (0:15:29) Kelly: Oh! (0:15:31) Kelly: That makes so much more sense because I was like oh mushroom shed. That’s just a shed where you grow mushrooms, you know That’s and then I just took the rest of them like that [laughs] (0:15:33) Kevin: Um, sh*t skins, yeah it does. (0:15:36) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, okay. (0:15:44) Kevin: Um, oh that’s the butterfly, wow those are big butterflies. (0:15:47) Kevin: Um, oh those are fascinating buildings. (0:15:49) Kevin: Um, let’s see, player birthdays. (0:15:53) Kevin: There is the birthday, birthday celebration. (0:15:57) Kevin: There is a huge pinata that you can hit, so I’m already down for this. (0:16:01) Kevin: Um, geez that’s like a full sized lion looking pinata, that’s great. (0:16:06) Kevin: Um, that’s uh, so all that’s included in the patch. (0:16:10) Kevin: Aside from that there will be DLC available. (0:16:13) Kevin: Um, all six different packs, trick or treat, spirit battle, rock and roll, cyber pop, monkey monkey, and dreamy ram. (0:16:22) Kevin: They’re all, they contain different items, packs, outfits, items, whatever. (0:16:27) Kevin: You guys can check the Steam page for details. (0:16:30) Kevin: Uh, for, yeah, there’s more details out there than we talked about, but, uh, yeah, that seems like a hefty patch. That seems like fun. (0:16:38) Kelly: Yeah, there’s a lot in this. This page goes on. (0:16:38) Kevin: Um, uh, yeah, it does. Um… (0:16:41) Kelly: And there’s even a coming soon, so… (0:16:43) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they’re talking about future. (0:16:47) Kevin: Um, wow, new season of weather. Wow. (0:16:50) Kevin: Gloomy, what’s the difference between rainy and gloomy rain? I don’t know. (0:16:55) Kelly: Um, I think there’s I could I could understand that one (0:16:55) Kevin: But there you go All right, yeah, I guess. Okay, uh See like out here in Georgia. It’s a little more like rain. Not gloomy rain. Gloomy rains like hurricane force rain That’s what I think Wait no, yeah, okay. I get it (0:17:10) Kelly: No, I think gloomy rain is like when it’s kind of cold and like the sky is just dark and grey all day and it’s like just kind of constant. Like you could have nice rain, like you could have sunny rain, you could have like… (0:17:24) Kevin: Yeah, I do enjoy sun showers. (0:17:25) Kelly: It doesn’t have to be gloomy. (0:17:26) Kelly: Just like a normal rain shower isn’t always gloomy. (0:17:27) Kevin: You’re right. (0:17:28) Kevin: Yeah, no, you’re right, okay, um Yeah, so there’s all the whole bunch of stuff you guys can check that out Is that sorry? Yeah, when’s the release? I didn’t it’s it’s Oct they posted it October 20th It is oh, yeah, it’s already out on Steam. Yeah, so Now time this recording which means by the times you guys are listening. It is definitely available. That is again Sun haven (0:17:58) Kevin: Huh? Oh man, I’m just looking at the picture like a big tree man monster. I might have to check this out I like tree monsters. I I haven’t played a magic game in a minute. Well, I mean, well, maybe our keeper gentle notwithstanding Um, but it’s high, you know fantasy magic II I’m down for that. I could use that Yeah, uh, okay speaking of well, I don’t know more updates (0:18:04) Kelly: right? like i’m kind of like- i’m intrigued. i’m definitely very (0:18:17) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:18:18) Kelly: I feel like this is pretty different, yeah. (0:18:28) Kevin: We have so this is The what I refer to as not a city builder but a village builder because it’s medieval villagey themed But you’re helping build the whole village and run everything it is currently in early access and they are dropping a update for it I’m excited for this game myself. I’m gonna wait for the 1.0, but I love the art style. It’s cutesy and goofy (0:18:59) Kevin: and they are dropping all sorts of things in this update including a An encounter with a misunderstood Cyclops who’s very cute. His eye is just a dot His name is Eric one eye you can there will be a witch’s hut a red hooded girl Who’s looking for her grandma’s house? That that’s a speech. I don’t trust that at all. Oh, no, I don’t like that Hemisary gnomes (0:19:26) Kevin: It was seriously rare! (0:19:28) Kevin: And then a fawn with a really big nose and mustache. Oh, I like this guy. (0:19:33) Kevin: There’s a… and a few more. (0:19:36) Kevin: Well, those are fun characters that they’re adding. I love the art style and it looks really fun on these mythical, magical, whatever you want to call them. (0:19:46) Kevin: Cyclops and fawns. Gnomes. They’re fun looking characters. (0:19:48) Kelly: No, yeah, they look they look so cute. It looks very adorable (0:19:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:19:51) Kevin: Yep. (0:19:53) Kevin: There are, oh gosh, 50 new world events and 30 new objectives. (0:19:58) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but those are big numbers. (0:20:00) Kevin: Oh, there’s a magic bean. (0:20:03) Kevin: There’s monthly and yearly objectives. (0:20:06) Kevin: Hot weight. Positive and negative events. Oh, oh, they’re, they’re, they’re wild. Okay, I’m down for that. (0:20:15) Kevin: They have, let’s see, new buildings, a laborer guild. Oh, so you can hire better laborers. That’s fun. A bank. (0:20:24) Kevin: Oh, you can tax your villagers at different rates? (0:20:28) Kevin: Oh, that’s awesome. Grand theater? Oh, that’s a nice looking theater. (0:20:34) Kevin: Fisherman’s hut? Fish up stuff? All sorts of quality of life stuff? (0:20:40) Kevin: Well, there’s a lot of graphs in this game and things like that. I’m down for that. (0:20:45) Kevin: Yeah, that’s a lot of stuff coming. Like I said, I’m probably going to wait for 1.0 myself, but I’m glad that it’s coming along nicely. Yeah, that is again fabled. (0:20:57) Kelly: Is there any, is there any real estate or? (0:20:59) Kevin: Go. Oh, it is live. That update is already live as of this recording. (0:21:05) Kevin: So, yay. If anyone is playing the one point or the early access, first of all, (0:21:10) Kevin: somebody tell me if they are because I want to know about it. And it is out already. (0:21:15) Kevin: Um, yeah. All right. Good. Oh man. I’m just trying to fable them. It’s so goofy looking and the. (0:21:23) Kelly: Is there like an overall release date or no? (0:21:33) Kevin: uh not that i’m saying now um I have left here a quick glance um yeah so probably still a hot minute probably sometime in 2024 i’d hope but uh it’s not dead yet so i’ll take that let’s see next up we have uh moonstone island we have dlc for that this is which one’s this one okay all right we so we have dlc come (0:22:11) Kevin: Well, let me get to the details. Yeah, it’s the Halloween update right? That’s the key thing here. Um, (0:22:16) Kelly: I think so, ‘cause it’s for Halloween. (0:22:17) Kevin: We’ve got just a whole bunch of Spooky decors per their website gravestones skeletons a big old pumpkin house um Web’s five types of cobwebs. Oh Oh a rug. That’s just the tongue. That’s clever. I like that. Um, (0:22:38) Kevin: uh So yeah, there. (0:22:41) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:43) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:45) Kelly: I’m sorry, it’s actually not out yet. (0:22:45) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:47) Kelly: It’s not out, which I’m kinda… (0:22:47) Kevin: Um, there are n- some- the- so some of this stuff is DLC, which I’m assuming means purchasable separately, but there will be stuff included for free in the updates on the skeletons and things like that. (0:22:58) Kevin: Um, spirits are free- I don’t know what spirits are in the context of this game, but um, but they’re coming some out. (0:23:05) Kevin: Um, oh wow, I didn’t check- it’s got some good reviews. (0:23:09) Kevin: Um, I’ll have to check that out. (0:23:11) Kevin: Oh wow, what? Oh gosh, I forgot about- I’m remembering the game. (0:23:15) Kevin: There’s- you can fight like robots with a card battling system. (0:23:19) Kevin: They are… (0:23:21) Kevin: Yeah, oh man, oh gosh. (0:23:23) Kelly: These are really cute looking things, these creatures. (0:23:26) Kelly: I, yeah, like, I really like the style of it, yeah. (0:23:26) Kevin: This whole episode’s just me getting excited about games I forgot to get excited about. (0:23:31) Kevin: Um, as if I didn’t have enough already. (0:23:33) Kevin: There are really cute characters- there’s a fishbowl with legs. (0:23:36) Kevin: Um, I like that. (0:23:39) Kevin: that. And then at the end they just. (0:23:41) Kevin: Have a picture of a cat with like a sun hood. I don’t know but um, it’s very cute cat. (0:23:47) Kevin: That is Moonstone Island. That is already out, I believe. Why do we have a date for that? (0:23:52) Kelly: It is a very cute cat. (0:23:54) Kelly: The game is out, it says “NA” for them. (0:23:56) Kevin: Okay, thank you. But it says, while says it’s October 27th. I (0:24:06) Kevin: Couldn’t find that myself. Oh wait. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, October 27th. It’s only $4. (0:24:11) Kevin: Okay, that’s actually not bad at all and 10% off the first week. So there’s 46. (0:24:18) Kevin: Yeah, okay. Oh, it’s a new spirits must be a little monster buddies. That’s what it means. I’m excited. One looks like an apple with a worm through it. They’re just showing silhouettes. I’m just guessing. (0:24:23) Kelly: There you go. (0:24:29) Kevin: And yeah, I don’t know all that. Oh, I might check this out now. It’s a very cute game. (0:24:34) Kevin: Moonstone Island. Um Let’s see Next up we have oh, this isn’t an interesting (0:24:41) Kevin: one because boy, I never thought we’d see this this is Lonesome Village game that I notoriously advocate because the developers are from Mexico. It’s got the cute coyote as you saw puzzles in a tower. They’re coming out the fiscal edition. Pre-orders are live. You can check the show notes for the link. It is not from limited run games actually. A game a site called premium edition games. (0:25:11) Kevin: physical edition which includes all sorts of goodies including oh wow a full-color manual oh that’s exciting Wow a dog tag yeah they do um oh man a manual that’s exciting um yeah it’s great um yeah I I cover this game with Johnny, it was last year or year before, I don’t remember. (0:25:22) Kelly: Dude, the indie games always put so much into like what you get from… (0:25:32) Kelly: I love a manual. (0:25:33) Kelly: A full color manual too, that’s so nice. (0:25:41) Kevin: It’s a fun little game with lots of puzzles, and just very very cute little animal-closing-esque villagers. (0:25:47) Kelly: It looks really cute. The art style kind of reminds me of like Cult of the Lamb, but without the like paper feel. (0:25:47) Kevin: It’s actually funny because in the “story” of the game, so it’s called Lonesome Village because there’s a village and everyone’s kind of been turned to stone or disappeared. (0:26:03) Kevin: And the villains, they’re the people who did it very much look like Cult of the Lamb. (0:26:06) Kelly: Okay. (0:26:07) Kelly: Oh! Oh! It’s a cult! It’s a cult! What is happening here? (0:26:09) Kevin: Yeah. (0:26:12) Kevin: It came out around the time Cult of the Loom. (0:26:14) Kelly: I’m watching the trailer! Oh my god! (0:26:15) Kevin: It looks a lot like Cult of the Loom. (0:26:18) Kevin: The cult from Cult of the Loom. (0:26:20) Kevin: I think we made the joke in the episode. (0:26:22) Kevin: It came out around the same time too. (0:26:25) Kevin: Yep, yep, exactly. Yep. (0:26:26) Kelly: That’s so funny, ‘cause I was thinking it kinda like reminds me of the way they do the animals, like the style of the animals. (0:26:32) Kelly: But now that I’m watching this trailer, it’s like literally… (0:26:32) Kevin: It’s cult, it’s a lot like Cult of the Loom, Cult. (0:26:36) Kelly: That’s so funny. Oh, I gotta play this. (0:26:41) Kevin: Yeah, I have to check it out again. I still have it. (0:26:45) Kevin: It’s been a while. I’m sure they patched it up and done some stuff. (0:26:48) Kevin: ‘Cause I had a few rough edges back then, but I’m curious. (0:26:51) Kevin: I might do another look at it at some point. (0:26:54) Kevin: Because, yeah, props to–but, again, Mexican dev team, so I gotta shout them out. (0:26:59) Kevin: Ogre Pixel, that’s the name. (0:27:02) Kevin: But, yeah, that is a cute little logo of an Ogre–Pixillator Ogre. (0:27:07) Kevin: And again, this is the physical edition release. (0:27:11) Kevin: $40 for the premium edition, which seems to be their only version but includes all sorts of goodies. Um, I When do pre-orders end? I don’t know if I see that but the pre-orders are available now So you can check out the site and get it. Um Alright next up we have Not Garden Galaxy is perfect. We’re heading on the notes. That’s a different game that I was going to cover almost (0:27:42) Kevin: Garden story. That’s the one with the playable grape. That looks a lot like Stardew Valley a lot like It has It’s very cute though the grape that’s playable It is an update that has 11 new languages. Wow, that is a lot of languages I don’t know which ones they are. I just see the It’s out on Steam and switch already this update (0:28:09) Kevin: Very cool. Yeah, I actually don’t know what language is. I don’t know. (0:28:11) Kevin: Let’s see the details. But wow, that’s a big number. Good for them. (0:28:16) Kevin: Always props for making it more available for more people and whatnot. (0:28:19) Kevin: Yep. It is. The grape is very cute. (0:28:20) Kelly: Yeah, that’s always awesome. It really does look like stardew though. It’s cute though (0:28:25) Kevin: Next up, a new game announcement for as far as I can tell. (0:28:31) Kevin: This is called Fantastic Haven, which actually I find really intriguing. (0:28:36) Kevin: It’s the prime… (0:28:40) Kevin: Let me read the– (0:28:41) Kevin: The elevator pitch. (0:28:43) Kevin: So, this is a… (0:28:57) Kevin: Yeah, a Zook cheaper-esque type game, but they’re all magical creatures. (0:29:03) Kevin: Um, so you’re building big pens that look like circular homes more? (0:29:09) Kevin: Um, you alter the land and… (0:29:11) Kevin: It’s full 3D graphics, um, the… I think the actual designs of the creatures are actually quite nice, um… (0:29:18) Kevin: I like animals and critters and… (0:29:21) Kevin: …cheaping them and whatnot, so I’m already pretty interested, um, especially with the spin of… (0:29:26) Kevin: …like, they’re all magical creatures, I don’t see any other animals in here, I see like a griffin, uh… (0:29:31) Kelly: No, I’ve only seen, like, yeah, griffins and some weird frog with, like, horns and stuff. (0:29:31) Kevin: Yup, it’s a bullfrog, you get it? (0:29:36) Kelly: Ah, yes, yes, yes. (0:29:41) Kevin: The color shows a lot more, uh, it looks like you’re even busting some out of, like, cages and, like, carny… (0:29:46) Kevin: …you know, those carnival cages with the wheels, the cars, um… (0:29:51) Kevin: So that’s… that looks very fun, yeah, like I said, a lot of menus, probably, um… (0:29:57) Kevin: …very zookeeper tycoon-esque, um, but with the heavy, uh, magical fantasy paint over it, um… (0:30:06) Kevin: So that is right now the only release date planned is for Q2 of 2024 so it’ll probably be a minute but look forward to it I certainly am those are some fun designs yeah it’s it’s it’s charming enough for me I’m definitely interested um and then lastly okay this one I want to talk about in depth a little more because this one’s affecting me personally uh well actually there’s two me and my neck was night market once again got another patch that one. (0:30:41) Kevin: one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:48) Kevin: I’m not gonna go into the details because I don’t remember them but the other one I want to talk about because we just talked about last week is paleo pines. (0:30:53) Kevin: We just got yup okay so uh one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:54) Kelly: Which I still have to play, but I have not yet. (0:31:11) Kevin: We can change how quickly time passes in the game um oh gosh so one of the after I recorded last week with Spencer and we talked and played I was getting a lot of crashes. (0:31:23) Kevin: They had released a patch previously to fix some of that they said it was like a memory issue um but they were still experiencing it. (0:31:26) Kelly: Mmm. Okay. (0:31:31) Kevin: I felt like the more farther I got in the game the more I was crashed getting crashes uh they addressed some of that. (0:31:37) Kevin: that the game is still not free of crashes because (0:31:41) Kevin: we’ve been probably within an hour after downloading the update the game crashed on me again But it is better in general So they’re definitely aware and working on it at probably top of their list There is Also, there’s a whole list and you can check the show notes for them. I’m trying to look at which ones that are Stand out to me. Oh, there’s a cooking pot (0:31:46) Kelly: Oh, God. (0:32:07) Kevin: But it was weird because it was at some other guy’s house you have to go all the way to this other (0:32:12) Kevin: cook stuff but now you can buy one for your own ranch so that’s great oh here’s a fun one um so you can ride your dinosaurs because of course you can but the thing was whenever you got off of them they would just run away from you at max speed it was whole it was wild you could like try to stop them but um clearly not intended they have addressed that and and this definitely was an update needed and and it works um they will no longer run away from you when you get off of them (0:32:42) Kevin: um yes well luckily I think it was only in the ranch like your home base when it happened they wouldn’t leave you when you’re out in the wild oh my god that would be the worst yes but it’s still a pain because your character is a lot slower than the dinosaur so yeah yeah it’s just a pain having to go across the ranch to find them I mean it’s a pretty big ranch too um (0:32:44) Kelly: feeling it’s like okay nice I can I can get to the place I’m going to but once you’re there you’re stuck there now (0:32:56) Kelly: Oh, okay, okay, I was picturing like you, yeah, like you in the middle of like some field or something. (0:33:12) Kevin: uh there’s all sorts oh horse lock so there was a uh resource called forestwood that was needed for a lot of things it was pretty rare they increased the respawn on that that’s great um they did some ui improvements which were nice uh um lots of other things some oh there was a storage glitch spencer talked about think they fixed that um yeah just sort lots of little things (0:33:42) Kevin: because there were lots of little things that needed fixing um like I said still not 100 percent yeah yeah there is um where is it do they not have it um so there there is I read there is one glitch that they haven’t addressed yet um they know it’s an issue but for some reason at some point and it’s happened to me your game will reset to the first day of the game because there’s you know calendar like most farm. (0:34:12) Kevin: games and whatnot like you’ll keep all your stuff but somehow the calendar will just have reset to the very first game or very first day of the year which is wild um luckily I was able to get around that if you encounter it you can just reload an old save and it’s fine but um that was the wild glitch to see um but yeah that was I’m glad that came out because that addressed a lot of the little nitpicks Spencer and I had with the game and I’m sure (0:34:42) Kevin: they’re still working hard on that so good for you paleopines that update again is out already for switch and probably the other versions whatever versions it’s on all right so that was uh yeah the hearty helping of news and things but that’s now we’re doing that let’s talk about grave graveyard keeper yeah what’s what’s the tagline the most inaccurate medieval simulator isn’t that (0:35:09) Kelly: Something like that. I know inaccurate is involved of [laugh] (0:35:14) Kevin: Hold on let me look at it. Um the most inaccurate cemetery simulation game. Okay. Yeah, I think that’s what it is Okay Well Yeah, so again, um It and this game’s been up for years at this point. Um, I’ll covered it years ago Yeah. Yeah, there you go. That’s cute (0:35:24) Kelly: Oh, the most inaccurate medieval, yeah, cemetery sim of the year. (0:35:36) Kelly: Uh, they had their five year anniversary actually in August. (0:35:42) Kevin: There’s a bunch of DLC I bought the (0:35:44) Kevin: version with all the DLC I don’t know what the base game hazard does not have. (0:35:48) Kevin: I’ve only played it for an afternoon or two. I don’t think I’ve reached any of the DLC portions yet probably. (0:35:49) Kelly: Oh, did you? Okay. (0:35:57) Kevin: They’re all parody names there’s a stranger sins there’s breaking something (0:35:57) Kelly: Um, I’m trying to remember. I know the DLC… (0:35:59) Kelly: Yes, because there’s better save soul. (0:36:04) Kelly: Um, I did look into getting them, but I didn’t- I didn’t, because I think it was like- (0:36:11) Kelly: I feel like there’s- there’s so much going on in this game already. (0:36:14) Kevin: Even if it is, there’s a lot going on. (0:36:14) Kelly: Uh, that I was very happy to not have the added, um, things that like go along with the better save soul one. I heard that gets a lot of pretty tedious. (0:36:24) Kevin: Yeah, heh heh heh. (0:36:25) Kevin: Better save solo, that’s good. (0:36:29) Kevin: I don’t think that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:31) Kevin: That’s it? I don’t know if that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:32) Kelly: Oh, are you playing on Switch? I am not gonna lie. I have not. (0:36:36) Kelly: I’ve been so bad at playing my Switch this year. (0:36:44) Kevin: But, I mean, that’s fine, like, I know that the Switch port gets black for a good reason. (0:36:55) Kevin: There’s a Switch tax for sure, so I don’t blame you. (0:36:57) Kevin: But hey, at least we can compare notes on that. (0:37:00) Kevin: If you played on Steam, I would guess? (0:37:10) Kevin: Um, but okay, so let’s okay, let’s the elevator pitch Okay, first of all, I didn’t expect that this game’s an isekai That I didn’t expect at all so for people unfamiliar with isekai that is a genre of anime primarily where a character wakes up in a simulated often fantasy type world (0:37:38) Kevin: Sword Art Online and just… (0:37:40) Kevin: …other ones. It’s a whole trope now. (0:37:42) Kevin: Umm… (0:37:43) Kelly: I was gonna say it breaks the, you know, inherited your grandpa’s farm trope though. (0:37:44) Kevin: … (0:37:46) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. (0:37:48) Kevin: You’re just a guy who gets hit by a car cause he’s looking at his phone. (0:37:52) Kevin: Don’t look at your phone when crossing the streets. (0:37:54) Kevin: It’s dark in the rain, people. (0:37:56) Kevin: It’s not recommended. (0:37:58) Kevin: And he wakes… (0:37:59) Kelly: Poor dude’s just trying to give back to his girlfriend or whatever. (0:38:00) Kevin: …yeah, his love, as he says, and… (0:38:03) Kevin: …he wakes up in a graveyard area and… (0:38:08) Kevin: There’s a talking skull that talks to you. (0:38:10) Kevin: And he says, “Hey, welcome. You’re the graveyard keeper, I guess.” (0:38:13) Kevin: Um, more or less, and sure enough, you’re put in charge of this graveyard in this little medieval village area. (0:38:23) Kevin: And you’re trying to figure out how to get back home while managing the graveyard and all the stuff people are asking you. (0:38:32) Kevin: Because, of course, people are going to ask you to do everything around here. (0:38:35) Kevin: Uh… (0:38:36) Kelly: I mean, what would a game be without everybody asking you to do all these things? (0:38:40) Kevin: Right, right. (0:38:42) Kevin: Um, so, okay, hell, you beat the game, correct? What are your overall impressions? (0:38:50) Kelly: I really liked the game. I thought it was a lot of fun. I think there’s a lot of stuff to do, (0:38:57) Kelly: like it can get a bit overwhelming, but I think, you know, it definitely involves, you know, (0:38:59) Kevin: Boy does it. (0:39:01) Kevin: Oh. Yep. (0:39:04) Kelly: looking things up online. But I will say there is an issue with how intuitive it is. (0:39:08) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:10) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:12) Kelly: I think I could have been further along in my gameplay if I understood some of the (0:39:20) Kelly: panics. A lot better. And I will say on that note, it was not always easy to find the answers on the internet. So that made it even worse. And sometimes if you did find an answer, (0:39:21) Kevin: Yep. Okay, so yeah, so. Mm-hmm. (0:39:31) Kevin: Oh yeah, the double whammy, oh yeah. (0:39:35) Kevin: Yup, it’s wild. (0:39:38) Kelly: it was from like 2018, so something got patched or didn’t work like that anymore. (0:39:46) Kelly: So, that was my biggest issue. (0:39:48) Kelly: Did it stop me from putting in, you know, (0:39:50) Kelly: 90 hours, I think, or whatever into the game? (0:39:55) Kelly: No, but there were definitely moments where I was frustrated. (0:39:59) Kelly: Or, like, again, just like, I was playing the game, I was enjoying myself, (0:40:03) Kelly: but I could have been further along than what I was. (0:40:07) Kevin: Yeah, um, okay. Mm-hmm Okay, yeah for sure they’re just Yeah, absolutely. Um, so for comparison I got the game Thursday I think today’s like Saturday. So two days ago So I’ve only played for and Mario wonder so I didn’t play as much yesterday So I played the game for an afternoon and then some um, I like the game a lot. Um, (0:40:07) Kelly: And not even in, like, a micromanagy, like, you know, whatever kind of way. (0:40:13) Kelly: Like, in, like, a… (0:40:15) Kelly: It would have made more sense. (0:40:26) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:40:37) Kevin: I think it is Almost minecrafty and how open it is and crafting and everything But I fully agree like that’s my biggest criticism there’s a lot that is not intuitive Or explained well Yep, yep, yep, I’m sure (0:40:50) Kelly: you haven’t even gotten or opened a lot of the, you know, different aspects of the game yet at this point, I’m sure, because it really expands. It expands a lot. There is a lot to do. There is so (0:41:03) Kevin: But I can imagine… I mean I see the skill tree. (0:41:07) Kevin: So… I can… I can… she’s… I can… (0:41:12) Kevin: So there’s a skill tree in this game, right? You have to get points to unlock your skills. (0:41:18) Kevin: And you can see how far it goes. And yes, I can see there’s a lot to unlock and do and whatnot. (0:41:24) Kevin: But… I think the skill tree is probably where I can direct my first criticism. (0:41:32) Kevin: Because there’s three types of points, whatever you want to call them. (0:41:37) Kevin: Red, green, and blue, and you need different amounts of each for unlocking each new skill, which lets you craft new things or do new things, whatnot. (0:41:46) Kevin: Um, the red and green work hard to get, but the blue, the blue is killing me because I hit a point where I had like one blue point overall and couldn’t figure out how to get more. (0:41:56) Kelly: You run out of them. (0:41:58) Kevin: Yeah. (0:41:59) Kelly: There’s a certain point where the game just stops you from getting more for a bit. (0:42:02) Kevin: Really? Wow. (0:42:04) Kelly: Not like stops you. (0:42:06) Kelly: There’s definitely a roadblock, I would say. (0:42:11) Kevin: - Yeah, okay. (0:42:14) Kelly: I struggled with that for so long. (0:42:17) Kelly: And then, of course, at a certain point, it’s like, oh. (0:42:20) Kelly: Now, actually, you’re out of red. (0:42:23) Kelly: Or now you’re out of green or whatever. (0:42:25) Kelly: And it’s like, oh, something that I– (0:42:26) Kelly: so I think one of them is done from manual labor, red, I think. (0:42:27) Kevin: yep yep your manufacturing and things yeah red okay oh you don’t get read from them (0:42:34) Kelly: Yeah, so at a certain point, you get helper zombies that you can assign to do things. (0:42:42) Kelly: So you’re no longer getting the red from those things that you would be getting red from. (0:42:47) Kelly: So it definitely makes you have to stop and think and watch everything. (0:42:56) Kevin: Yup, absolutely, um, it’s a very resource-manage-y heavy game and that includes your skill points or whatever you want to call them. (0:43:07) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:43:09) Kevin: Like I can see the blue are going to be very scarce. (0:43:11) Kelly: But I think it’s interesting because it does… (0:43:13) Kelly: Sorry, I was gonna say it just it does impact, I feel like, (0:43:18) Kelly: what you’re trying to do in that day. Because if you’re trying to get blue points… (0:43:19) Kevin: Right. Yeah, exactly. (0:43:22) Kevin: The nice thing, one of the nicest things about the game, (0:43:26) Kevin: there’s no real pressure. (0:43:28) Kevin: There’s no seasons or years or whatever. (0:43:31) Kevin: There’s a week. (0:43:32) Kevin: So like in six, seven, I don’t remember how long, how many days, (0:43:36) Kevin: but that’s the worst that you have to wait. (0:43:37) Kelly: It’s seven days Which and I liked I like I really like the fact that there was no pressure on the seasons or When you finished the game even or anything like that. I also liked the Each day is a different person You have to make sure that you’re getting the things you need to have done before that day so you can go and deal with that person (0:43:38) Kevin: Yep. Which go by quickly. (0:43:42) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:44:03) Kevin: Yep, he just gotta wait until… (0:44:03) Kelly: Because there’s definitely some weeks where if you miss that person you’re screwed (0:44:07) Kelly: Yup. And there is something later on in the game, you know, when things have slowed down in certain areas and you’re just like waiting for that one day where you can fast forward. (0:44:10) Kevin: Until that point. (0:44:21) Kelly: Yes, but I do actually want to say on that point, I think this is very interesting because there is no pause button. There’s no space yet. (0:44:21) Kevin: Yeah, sure that makes sense. Yeah, you can fast-forward at any point you should go to sleep and (0:44:32) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, even if you’re in your menus, time goes on. (0:44:37) Kelly: Yeah, you have to literally like go to the exit screen or whatever. Like the main menu page. (0:44:41) Kevin: Yeah Yep Yep, so if you’re looking through your notes here You know hemming and hawing at a menu thinking about where you want to spend your points that happened to me just just today When I was playing I cuz I finally got some blue points today. And so I was just like agonizing over I wanted where I wanted to spend them and before when I got out of the menu Oh, it’s evening already. Cool. The whole day’s [laughter] (0:44:43) Kelly: There’s a certain page that stops time, but the rest of them don’t. (0:44:48) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:09) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:11) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:12) Kevin: But they’re the kind of I mean, I don’t know if it was their intent or not But the way to combat that it’s very easy to reroll your did your save like you own there’s no autosave It just saves when you go when you wake up So most of the time you can say you’re pretty much have a safe at the start of the date or start of the day, excuse me, and You can just reload to that and have a plan or save yourself (0:45:23) Kelly: Oh, yes. (0:45:25) Kelly: Yes. (0:45:29) Kelly: I would just quit the game. (0:45:32) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:40) Kelly: Oh yeah, no, there was many times where I would either just, you would see like the NPC walking away from their post, and I would have to go and reset the game and then do the day over and make sure I got there early enough. (0:45:47) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:50) Kevin: Yep. (0:45:52) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:54) Kevin: That happened to me twice already when I go down and Snake is running away and like, “No, I need to talk to you, Snake.” (0:46:02) Kelly: oh god he’s so annoying he’s so annoying for the skill points though I think it’s like kind of fun like there’s some weird ones you can choose from uh-huh (0:46:05) Kevin: He is. (0:46:08) Kevin: He is. (0:46:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:46:13) Kevin: Overall, I’m a big fan of the Skilled Trees, umm… (0:46:17) Kevin: Because you can very much pick and choose if you want to focus on certain areas and whatnot. (0:46:23) Kevin: Umm, obviously like… (0:46:25) Kevin: To get green points, that’s the farming stuff, so you do want to invest in some of that stuff. (0:46:30) Kevin: Umm, but like, early on you can really get through a lot of the wood and metalworking stuff. (0:46:37) Kevin: Umm, and again, with almost no pressure on when to do it, umm, it’s… (0:46:42) Kevin: It’s very open and you’re very free to pick and choose as you want. (0:46:46) Kevin: You know, (0:46:47) Kevin: the limitations of how many skill points you actually have notwithstanding. (0:46:52) Kevin: I think it is a clever system. (0:46:54) Kevin: And because you get to see what’s coming ahead, that helps you plan that too. (0:47:00) Kevin: I really like that. (0:47:01) Kelly: Yes, definitely. (0:47:01) Kevin: Um… (0:47:02) Kelly: There was definitely some areas in the skill tree though where I did not understand what, (0:47:09) Kelly: like if you unlocked something, (0:47:12) Kelly: I didn’t understand how to access it afterwards, (0:47:15) Kelly: which then led to me diving down a rabbit hole, (0:47:18) Kelly: trying to figure it out. (0:47:18) Kevin: Yeah, sometimes that’s a little unclear most of the time When you look at the skill tree thing it says okay, you can craft at this bench or that bench or whatever But some are not very clear. Yeah Some aren’t super clear. Yeah But I do agree (0:47:27) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it definitely is pretty good. (0:47:30) Kelly: It’s pretty good. (0:47:34) Kelly: Can we talk about the main premise of the game, which I think is the most weird and fun part is, you know, collecting your corpses? (0:47:41) Kevin: Yeah, the it’s definitely yeah the differentiator the the the graveyard itself. Yeah, let’s talk about that (0:47:43) Kelly: Because you are, you are quite literally the graveyard keeper. So you get a (0:47:54) Kelly: Annoyed little donkey that delivers corpses to you. (0:47:56) Kevin: I’m red donkey from a leftist stable [laughter] (0:47:57) Kelly: And oh my god, there was so many times where I would hear that bell and just be so far away from home. (0:48:06) Kelly: And just go running because it’s like the second you hear that bell that corpse starts, you know, deteriorating. (0:48:12) Kevin: Yep Yeah, that’s that’s an interesting aspect that the forps is deteriorate and it affects a lot of things And yeah, they’re kind of deliver just at random times. It feels like I didn’t detect any pattern Umm… (0:48:22) Kelly: Yeah. (0:48:23) Kelly: Yes. (0:48:27) Kelly: No, they can definitely be whenever. (0:48:31) Kelly: And they can pile up too. (0:48:34) Kevin: Oh my gosh, I don’t think I’ve had that happen yet, but I could see that happening. (0:48:35) Kelly: Yeah, no, they can definitely pile up. (0:48:43) Kelly: I mean, this game goes in depth. (0:48:48) Kelly: I have freezers for bodies. (0:48:53) Kelly: So, you know, it’s like you are literally treating it like a morgue, like… (0:48:57) Kelly: But I think one of the most fun parts is removing the organs, (0:49:03) Kelly: but also the most hard to understand initially. (0:49:06) Kevin: Right, so yeah, let’s talk about that because as very early on you’re introduced that you have options to do the corpse One you can bury them in your graveyard. It has a prettiness rating you how you decorate it Well, you bury them and whatnot You can even just throw it in the river or cremate them or You can take them into your morgan Do a little bisection, you know see what you can poke around and find in there pull out a skull some blood What? (0:49:36) Kevin: A bit of flesh. (0:49:38) Kevin: It’s fascinating that they gave you this option. (0:49:43) Kevin: There’s… (0:49:44) Kevin: I haven’t gotten too in-depth with the body parts. (0:49:47) Kelly: So, I’ll explain it. It’s a lot. (0:49:51) Kelly: Basically, your corpse, so when you bury a corpse, you want it to be as high rated as possible because it impacts your cemeteries overall like beauty rating, (0:50:05) Kelly: which is a whole different aspect. (0:50:07) Kelly: And that’s a big part of the game because it kind of roadblocks you if you don’t keep up with it. (0:50:11) Kelly: But so you want to make sure you’re removing. (0:50:14) Kelly: If you remove certain organs, it makes your corpses… (0:50:17) Kelly: …that’s how you can remove them. (0:50:19) Kelly: If you remove other organs, it decreases it, and they don’t really tell you at first. (0:50:23) Kelly: You have to unlock skills on the skill tree… (0:50:25) Kelly: …that tell you. (0:50:25) Kevin: Yeah, I mean they tell you like there’s bad organs, but you don’t you can’t tell which ones until you go get that later (0:50:29) Kelly: Yes. Yes. (0:50:34) Kelly: And so you can remove organs, and you can also try to put the organ back. (0:50:38) K

In this episode, hear Kevin explore the impact of inflation and the Federal Reserve's role in shaping the future. Will the 4% or even 4.8% rule withstand the test of time? The uncertain economic environment has everyone on edge. With over three decades of experience, Kevin explains the importance of creating a personalized retirement plan. He introduces the idea of a customized withdrawal strategy based on individual circumstances, such as risk tolerance and specific financial goals. This ensures a more secure financial future. As times change, so do the rules of retirement planning. But, as Kevin emphasizes, personalization and preparation are keys to securing your financial future, no matter how different the times may be. The number one fear of retirement is outliving your money. With Kevin's guidance, you can put a plan in place tailored to your unique circumstances. Call 724-488-7868 or visit the website at integrityretirementsolutions.com to begin planning your financial future today.   If you're retired or nearing retirement, call Kevin NOW to schedule a Portfolio Review!   

re you prepared for the journey into retirement? As the financial landscape evolves, it's essential to protect your retirement savings. The traditional solution? Bonds. However, in these volatile times, bonds might not be the best choice. Kevin expands on this notion, emphasizing the benefits of annuities as bond replacements. He explains how annuities can provide a safer and potentially more profitable alternative. Looking for consistent income? Annuities might be the answer. But retirement isn't just about financial security; it's about fulfilling your dreams. As you plan for retirement, Kevin sheds light on the importance of crafting a post-retirement lifestyle. What will you do with your newfound free time? Kevin's advice: don't retire into nothing. Fill your days with purpose, whether through part-time work, pursuing hobbies, or even starting your own business.  Are you ready to retire with confidence? Find out and call Kevin today- 724-488-7868! If you're retired or nearing retirement, call Kevin NOW to schedule a Portfolio Review!   

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Only 35% of Americans use a financial advisor, despite the monumental impact financial decisions can have on one's retirement. Kevin discusses what a financial advisor brings to the table, emphasizing the critical role of knowledge in retirement planning. The conversation unfolds with real-life examples of how expert advice can make an enormous difference in retirement outcomes. Kevin shares a case study where they transformed a potentially massive tax burden on highly appreciated assets into a $35 million tax-free legacy for a client's five children. Whether you're dealing with highly appreciated assets, company stock, or complex financial situations, this episode showcases how a knowledgeable financial advisor can help you make informed decisions that maximize your legacy and minimize taxes.  #retirement #financialplanner #financialliteracy #wealth #fyp #podcast   If you're retired or nearing retirement, call Kevin NOW to schedule a Portfolio Review! 

In this episode Kevin discusses the four worst mistakes people make in withdrawing from their accounts. He also talks about the importance of having a plan for retirement and how to make sure you're doing it the right way.  Here are the four worst mistakes people make in withdrawing from their accounts: Not having a plan. Withdrawing too much money too soon. Not taking into account taxes and healthcare costs. Not having a diversified portfolio. Kevin discusses the importance of having purpose in retirement and how to find it. He also talks about the different types of income streams available to retirees and how to create a plan that meets your individual needs.  If you're retired or nearing retirement, call Kevin NOW to schedule a Portfolio Review!   #retirement #financialplanner #financialliteracy #wealth #fyp #podcast   

In this episode, Andy chats with Kevin Williams an expert in ChatGPT and A.I. ========== References: www.SprinklerNerd.com/inkworks www.InkWorks.ai ========== Kevin: You know, it's not going to be AI that replaces you as the employee or, or supplants you, your company. It's going to be a company that knows how to use AI or a person who knows how to use AI that's going to disrupt things. Andy: Hello my friends. This is Andy. Welcome to episode 129. Of the Sprinkler Nerd Show, where it's my job to speak with world-class water and technology innovators from all walks of life so that it may inspire you and your business. My guest today is Kevin Williams. Who is Kevin Williams? Kevin has been featured in Inc.Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and even as a Shark Tank business. Before starting his current company, www.inkworks.ai, Kevin was the former operating partner and CEO of www.balls.co. And before that, Kevin was the founder and CEO of Brush Hero, which is the product you may have seen on shark tank. Our conversation today will be focused on AI tools like Chat GPT, and how you can implement these tools in your business. So with that, Kevin, welcome to the show.  Kevin: Thanks so much for having me, Andy.  Andy: I cannot wait to talk about AI and how service businesses, contractors, irrigators, and landscapers can learn a little bit from you, who has spent a lot of time, uh, really becoming an expert in this field. And I think that before we jump into that, I'd like to ask how you got your start in business and as an entrepreneur.  Kevin: It's, it's funny. I actually come from a family of entrepreneurs ever since I was about 10 or 12. My family was traveling all over the country with various business ideas and it was just part of the fabric of my life. Kevin: Sadly, that story doesn't actually end particularly well. So sometimes I, I, I glib about it that I come from a family of failed entrepreneurs because in a period in my adolescence, my parents lost their business, they lost their house. They lost their marriage, like all of this horrible stuff. So young Kevin decides that a good idea is to not be an entrepreneur and instead go be a chemist. Kevin: Well, fates have a way of, uh, of messing with plans like that. Um, I went on the straight and narrow path. I did a bunch of interesting stuff and I ended up at pretty good business school. And in business school, I entered a business plan competition just as a part of a, like an elective entrepreneurship class. Kevin: And I won. And I won a bunch of money that came along with it for seed funding. Um, so I ended up starting my first business having done everything in my power not to be an entrepreneur. I was like, oh heck, here's an opportunity. I'm just going to take a left turn in my life and chase this now. Um, that business didn't necessarily go anywhere, but it introduced me to the angel and venture community in my town in Washington DC and uh I ended up operating businesses for a high net worth, uh, individuals for a bunch of years and my own entrepreneurial journey kicked in again, where I saw that there was just so much waste in a lot of startup companies that people really didn't know how to demonstrate. Kevin: What we marketers would call product market fit, and instead they just dump bucket loads of money into things trying to prove a concept. Uh, and when I saw the rise of social media, I saw an opportunity to rapidly test concepts, um, without necessarily spending a lot of money. And that pivoted into a whole series of businesses where I would either license or buy intellectual property. Kevin: And my dirty little secret was that when a patent was pitched to me, I could go out onto social media and test some concept around that product. I could throw a bunch of traffic at it, see if anybody cared. If people cared about the idea, then I would license the patent and then I would already know that I could get on to first base with the product. Kevin: Was it going to be a home run? Who knows, but I could get on to first base. So that led to the Brush Hero product, which I had licensed. I'd licensed the underlying IP from a gentleman in the UK, um, and several other patents in homewares and kitchenwares. Uh, I sold, um, or I, yeah, I exited Brush Hero in about 2019. Kevin: And, um, then I ended up running, uh, a large international brand. Usually I don't say, but yes, it was Balls. co.  Andy: Fuck it, you can say it on this channel, on this show.  Kevin: Yes, I was a manscaper. Um, so Balls was the largest, uh, manscaping company in Europe. Uh, you can probably already tell I'm not the guy who tells Balls jokes all day. Kevin: So it was, it was pretty fun to dive into a brand like that. British sensibility, really cheeky humor. And, um, our goal was to drive it into, uh, the U S with that sort of humor. Um, the realities of running a UK European based business from the West coast of the U S not so great. A lot of early mornings, a lot of late nights. Kevin: So, mm-hmm. , in part when I saw just the I I, I, I like to think that I immediately saw the opportunities that generative AI would represent when G P T launched in November of last year, and I left and dove feet first into generative AI and practical applications of it. Um, And I've been rooting around for business models in my M. Kevin: O. You know, test some ideas, test a lot of different things, um, to see what might take root. And from there, ink works is one of several different products, projects that I'm working on, um, as well as doing executive coaching and executive coaching oriented around a I capacity development within organizations. Kevin: Because one challenge of all of this Is that coming up with a one size fits all solution just isn't practical. So business leaders need to develop a framework around the way that they think about AI and how they're going to safely lever it in their business. Um, as opposed to just looking for a magic bullet type. Kevin: Platform that they can just buy. That's going to solve all of their problems. Um, that's going to be very interesting to, to, to see how that develops. And it's been fun to, to, to work with other business leaders to try and identify how their particular business, be it, you know, in landscaping or direct consumer or. Kevin: Business to business SAS type stuff. Well, how can they actually deploy this stuff right away to make changes in their business? Because, you know, the, the adage has become. You know, it's not going to be AI that, that replaces you as the employee or, or supplants you, your company. It's going to be a company that knows how to use AI or a person who knows how to use AI that's going to disrupt things. Andy: I love that. So there's a couple takeaways. I'm going to start with the last thing you said, because it reminds me of a great expression that I can't remember who the author is, but I use it all the time. And that is the company that kills you will look nothing like you. So when you said AI may not replace the person, it's going to be a company that knows how to use AI that becomes your competitor. Andy: That's a great example of another company that It looks nothing like you, but could end up killing your business and you were running balls. co and this is not the right time to talk about balls. co, but we don't actually talk about a lot of balls in this industry. We do talk about a lot of nipples though. Andy: There are many different types of nipples in the irrigation industry, believe it or not. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to put that out there inside joke for those that are listening. We don't talk about balls, but we like to talk about nipples, talk about  Kevin: turf.  Andy: And turf. Yep. Totally. You can talk about turf. Andy: There's a lot to, a lot to play with there. Not last week. It's been probably three weeks now. Kevin and I both went to a conference. I would say that's just for shark tank companies, just for those who have. been on Shark Tank, whether it aired or whether it was just taped, because we know that most of the businesses that tape don't actually go to air. Andy: So we were both at the conference, and that's when I was learning about what you were doing in the AI space, because Kevin was actually presenting at the conference. And I thought this would be great, Kevin, to have you come and share some of your Uh, real practical world experience with AI, you know, and how you are coaching people to use it, some of the value that it has, and maybe even some of the best practices or things you should do first, second, third, or even how do you optimize the responses of, let's say, chat GPT versus a beginner that just goes in and asks it a basic question. Andy: So very, very excited, and especially because this industry is tends to lag behind.  Kevin: So first, just to back up, I we were sort of operating on the assumption that everybody knows what this is, and I'm pretty sure everybody has at least heard of it at this point. That is this magic machine that can that you can talk to, and it can it can come up with responses. Kevin: Um, but it is actually a success story. That's it's one of those overnight successes. That's eight years in the making that billions and billions of dollars has been poured into what are called neural networks that allow So Uh, highly abstract patterns to to interact with each other such that the magic machine can output based on a predictive model. Kevin: What might come next from a thought? So that's essentially what it's doing. It's predicting from the sum of the human Internet knowledge. What? The next likely thought can be, and it is absolutely amazing what it can do, but the underlying fundamentals of neural networks have been around for a long time. Kevin: The novelty and what was just completely mind blowing for most of us was the Interaction, the interactive effect. Like if you leave a bunch of wonky people together who are studying neural networks, they know how neural networks work. They don't need this chat functionality. What the chat functionality did is it made it much more accessible for we mere mortals to be able to lever these tools, um, on on even on a basic level, as opposed to going through a whole machine learning type process. Kevin: So These are predictive models. They're taking the sum of human knowledge and they are outputting the next likely. So the first thing to understand about them is that They don't necessarily know or care if anything is particularly accurate. So, this is what you hear about in terms of hallucinations. And hallucinations are just wrong facts. Kevin: Like, the AI is not particularly good with facts. It's very good at expressing A dubious fact in a very convincing way, which should be a giant red flag for most of us who produce any sort of content that particularly in a subject matter that's relatively technical like what you guys are talking about, um, it could easily. Kevin: It could easily just lie to you. So the first thing that I tell people from a, from a mindset perspective is that you need to calibrate what you're doing with the AI based on who you are and what you know, so picture like a Venn diagram, you've got this. One circle, that's the size of my house, that is the sum total of human knowledge. Kevin: And then you have this intersecting circle that's much smaller, which is the sum total of who you are and what you know and what you know about irrigation and, uh, and lawn care and everything else. Right? And the intersection of those two circles is where the power really lies. So If you, the farther you drift away from that, the more likely you are to get into dangerous territory. Kevin: So, I know a lot about digital marketing. I know a lot about business operations and such. That is a core of who I am. But, if I drift away and I start talking with the AI about neuropsychology, I might get interesting results, but I have no way of calibrating whether or not those results are actually useful or, or practical or not. Kevin: I'm just leaving it to the AI. So when you say  Andy: calibrate, what does, what does that mean? What does calibrate mean? So  Kevin: it's you know what you know. So imagine, you know, most of us have have businesses that are large enough that you have developing staff like there. There are other people that are involved in the business and you you take, let's just say a new sales guy and You, The way If you're the senior sales guy or you're the business owner, you might tell the sales guy to go off and do X, Y, and Z. Kevin: And then you're going to look at the output and you're going to, you're going to coach them, you're going to push them towards an output that you know is going to work in because you have this expertise in the knowledge. It's the same as true for the AI. The AI doesn't necessarily know what it's talking about, but if you were to look at the output. Kevin: Your art as a business person and just as an individual is being able to identify the value in that output. And if it's something you don't know anything about, that's going to be really hard to do. So if you're, if you're looking at, at creating something that's entirely new that you don't know anything about, there are ways to use AI that you can do that. Kevin: But it's not as effective as Amplifying things that you already do know. So in a lot of organizations, let's just take a lawyer, for example, like you could you could call a lawyer and say, Hey, I need to set up a trust document and whatever. And right now the M. O. would be that lawyer would probably record the call or take notes on the call. Kevin: They would go to their associate. Their associate would look through their templates about it. Trust. They'd adapt it to Wyoming. They put it back to the senior attorney who would then approve it, edit it, give it red lines, hand it back to the guy or gal and then process it and then finalize it and then send it out because that senior attorney really knows their stuff or you hope they really know their stuff. Kevin: They can do that. That is their art. That is their job. That is their profession. But now you can bypass all of that, that associates job. Not so good for the associate, right? But you could output that document and be able to read it and have it done in 15 seconds, but you can't abdicate your professionalism and your art. Kevin: You can't just trust it. You're going to get 80% of the way there in 15 seconds, but that last 20% of editing and clarifying and redlining, um, you still own that at least at the moment. So. The lawyer knows a lot about law. The business guy has actually read a ton of contracts, right? Like, I've probably read a thousand contracts in my career. Kevin: I'm not a lawyer. I happen to be married to one. But, I... Not a lawyer, but if I need to create a new contract I can actually get 90% of the way there So let's just say 70% of the way there Because I know how contracts are written right and I can read it and I can interpret Okay, this indemnification clause makes sense to me The smart move is to then send it on to the lawyer, but I didn't have to spend the 500 for him to draft the first version. Kevin: I just need to spend the 250 for him to take a pass at it at the other side, because I know enough to be dangerous. Now, if it were to get into case law, statutes, regulations, things like that, it could easily lie to you, and that's out of my realm. Like the lawyer might recognize that that case isn't a real case or that that statute isn't accurate, but dang, if the AI isn't going to be very, very compelling in its, it's sort of its defense of its own facts that it's putting forward, but that's the. Andy: So, so would it be. Would it be safe to say that an attorney who uses Chet GPT, if Chet GPT or the AI can do the 70% as you describe, but because they're the expert in that field, they can review that 30% and get it right. So that if it's lying, they can correct it because they have the expert knowledge in that core business. Kevin: Exactly, exactly. And this is where I like to focus when I'm talking to people about it. There's a lot of water is wet out there. Oh, you can just. Have it write a giant blog post for you. Okay. That's cool. You know, it's cool to watch it do its output. It's like, it's sort of mind blowing if you haven't seen it by all means, totally go sign up and see that because it's really cool, but that doesn't allow you to abdicate from your art and your expertise. Kevin: So, you know, your audience knows a lot about lawn care and it like, like you can have it create a blog post about certain patterns of irrigation and you're going to be able to decide whether or not those are accurate or not. But if you want to reach into topics that you don't know much about, even if they're close to you, you can. Kevin: But you have to have either some sort of validation mechanism such that you can determine whether it's accurate or not, um, or not care, so. Because  Andy: then if somebody who is an expert in that category reads it, they may think, Oh my gosh, what is Kevin talking about here? He doesn't know what he's talking about. Andy: This is not accurate.  Kevin: Exactly. Like imagine, you know, I, as I understand it, that, uh, you know, grass varietals change by different continents and there's expertise in South America and they're, you know, sprinkler nerds in South America and like you pontificating about, you know, Argentine varieties of. Kevin: Bermuda grass, like that person is going to be able to smell a rat because that's their, their expertise. And worse, this is sort of meta as there's an industrial scale opportunity for content production. If all of us. I'm not going to get noble about this, but like if all of us are out there producing bad content, the AIs will be trained on the bad content. Kevin: So there is going to be value. Is that the  Andy: garbage in garbage out analogy? Yes.  Kevin: Garbage in garbage out. And at some point it all reverts to the mean. So from the segment of your audience that is out there and doing direct to consumer type marketing, don't be, don't be tempted to do just. Industrial scale output. Kevin: Your art has to be producing new information from somewhere. But what AI can do is it can make some of that new information really accessible. Like there's a lot of geeky in this sort of field, right? And there's scholarly articles about soil density and all this other stuff. One really cool use of AI is to be able to contextualize something like a scholarly document and make it accessible to people who have expertise that can do something interesting to it. Kevin: So, you know, somebody comes out with a paper from the university of Florida, as far as water absorption rates, whatever it is, and you can then use the AI to simplify that overly complicated document to a way that it falls into that zone of expertise and art. And then you can actually. Add to the corpus of information that's out there on the web in an additive way because that paper was never really going to get found. Kevin: It was somebody's PhD thesis or whatever. But now you Andy can like actually make that accessible in a way that increases the store of human knowledge and from a Strategic perspective, I do suspect that, that, that brands, particularly in the internet who can truly add novel value are going to be rewarded by search engines, by advertising platforms, et cetera, and that those who simply put it out like high volume garbage are going to get severely punished. Kevin: And, and I'm  Andy: thinking that likely the level one knowledge. Which may address the most frequently asked questions about lawn care on the internet will probably be garbage in garbage out and stuff that everybody talks about. I love what you said about finding a scholarly article and what came to my mind is that there actually are scholarly articles from, I believe, University of Florida on, you know, lawn care and let's say soil moisture sensor technology. Andy: And my question would be, number one, Perhaps this would be a great training example for us to do live like, Hey, let's grab a couple articles and use that to produce some really awesome content using AI. And could we do that? You know, could we take an article of a research on soil moisture sensor, not right now about soil moisture sensor technology, real case studies and recreate it in a, in a, in a way that everybody could understand it simplified, but on a deep topic  Kevin: like that. Kevin: So this is, let's walk through the practical example. The example is yes, that would be really cool, right? So first you're going to find the article and then let's just be practical. First, if you're not paying for GPT, pay for it. It's 20 bucks a month and it gives you access to GPT 4, but more importantly, it gives you advanced access to advanced processing. Kevin: So the, the 3. 5 was the first model 4. 0 is where it is now. 4. 0 is roughly 10 times. It's more powerful as far as the level of connections. It's also slower, um, which can be a little bit agonizing in a demo because it writes really slowly. Um, but it allows you to contextualize. These are, these are all terms that are going to be so common in the next few years, but right now we're all kind of bending our heads around it that you have to set context. Kevin: Like, uh, I like this particular example, like you go, you stand at the top of a, of a building at, uh, you know, Times Square, you stand in the middle of Times Square and you say, what should I read? And people are going to have all kinds of opinions. They're going to have like, Oh, you should read the Bible. Kevin: You should read, you know, Tom Clancy. You should read, you know, the, the sprinkler digest of 2022. The Idiot's Guide to Landscaping. But that's because, yes, of course, you know, scintillating reading, right? But that's because nobody knows anything about you. So one of the first keys here is you have to set the context of the conversation such that you're narrowing, you're narrowing what you're after. Kevin: So from a practical perspective in GPT 4, you can start out a conversation by saying, I'm a landscaping expert. Um, I'm interested in expanding my knowledge of lawn care practices using scholarly articles. And it's going to say something like, yay. Next you set the context for the conversation because you could just. Kevin: Continue. And this is where it gets dangerous. Like, let's just chat about lawn care. And you're going to come up with all kinds of interesting stuff. In the back and forth that it's, it's, as you're, you're expanding. It knows who you are. It kind of knows what you're looking for. But now, you want to refine that context further. Kevin: And the way that you do that is by contextualizing something like a scholarly article. And there are tools, they're called plug ins within GPT 4, that allow you to do that. And that's simply by Letting it ingest the PDF, and now this is what we're talking about. We're not talking about the body of the knowledge, of world knowledge about lawn care. Kevin: We now have established minimal context that you have expertise in lawn care, and now specifically what we're going to talk about is this scholarly article. Like, use, oh mighty GPT, use your chat based functionality to make this easy, but this is what we're talking about. So now you've set the context for it. Kevin: And you're going to do something like, let's ask for a summary, um, that would be applicable and interesting information for an audience that is focused in on lawn care science. And it's going to come up with a bunch of ideas. Okay, cool. Now. Let's say, oh, okay, I like idea number three, that, um, you know, I don't know, relative humidity and the impact of, uh, water absorption rates on whatever it is. Kevin: Now let's dive into that, and let's put a marketing hat on. Okay, let's produce content, a blog post about this that, that, that incorporates interesting facts from the scholarly, the scholarly doc, document, and dresses it up with a little bit of marketing speak. Okay, cool. Now, because we're a marketer, we need to put headlines on it. Kevin: So let's come up with 10 possible headlines for this. So now you have 10 possible headlines for the article. Now let's get a little bit wonky because this is a scholarly article. Scholarly articles often come along with data sets. Okay. So you could actually ingest a dataset using the, the, the code interpreter function within GPT and say something completely simple, like some giant dataset, and just say, help me visualize the data in this dataset in a few different ways that would be interesting to my audience, my audience. Kevin: Like you've already defined who your audience is, right? It's another cool part. Like it has permanence. Um, So it's remembering  Andy: what you gave it earlier when you said, you know, my audience is homeowners, you know, interested in black, it, it,  Kevin: it, it stores that. So we've, we all, we all, I'm not going to say the name because it'll trigger, but the S device on a, on an Apple, if I were to say the name and I would say, Hey, what's, what's the weather in park city tomorrow? Kevin: It's going to have an answer. And if I simply said, what's the weather on Saturday? It's going to say, what are you talking about? Because it has no permanence to it at all. You have to start over in that conversation. Permanence in GPT is so cool. So just a practical tip. You have chats. that maintain that context. Kevin: And some of my chats are now hundreds of pages along because I'm chatting through specific business models and it knows that that's what we're talking about. It doesn't need to like remind itself. I can go back months later and bring something up and all that context is set and you get much better results once the context is set. Kevin: So what you've done with that. So if you, if you have a  Andy: thought. Or you have another question, but it's really related to some other things you've already asked that you'll instead of starting a new conversation, if that's what it's called, you'll go back to your other one and add it into the dialogue. Andy: Yep,  Kevin: exactly. Just write, don't even need to be like, do you remember what we're talking about? No, of course it remembers what it's talking about. It's a machine, right? Um, but imagine you've put out that blog post and, um, somebody now in the community has some insightful question and you're like, I don't know what the answer is. Kevin: Dump the question in and say, this was a community conversation. Can you, can, can you come up with some sort of, can you help me answer this question? And it's going to use the context of your chat. The conversation you have, it's going to use the document that's been set as context. And it's going to try and answer that question within that much narrower context, um, than just the wild west of the internet. Kevin: So taking it like just taking it to the logical conclusion again, as a marketer, you need visuals. So now we haven't talked about the visual tools at all. I've been very GPT focused and GPT is not the only language model out there. I just, it currently is the strongest, but. In my opinion, but there will be many, there's no real barriers to this except gazillions of dollars, which people like Mark Zuckerberg have. Kevin: So you're gonna see a lot of different models and this is just, it's going, they're all gonna be out there. So people will choose their poison. Do you know,  top  Andy: of mind what a couple other models are that we could share list in the,  Kevin: so Google Bard is quite powerful, and it's not like Google wasn't working on this. Kevin: They missed a tick. They have business model problems with this that are pretty obvious. You know, they make 160 billion a year off of advertising. And what does advertising mean if. Like you get the answer, it's not so great. So they  Andy: also not perusing the internet and clicking lots of times and visiting lots of pages and getting served. Andy: Lots of visuals. We're  Kevin: in that space, right? Yeah. So it's, it's, it's going to be an interesting existential crisis for them. They seem confident about it. So I think they have a plan, but they're constrained. My, my worry is big brands like that get more constrained by reputational impact. We all have heard the stories of the New York times, I think. Kevin: Kevin Roos, um, who like the AI tried to convince him to leave his wife and stuff. Um, like open AI, which is GPT can kind of get away with that with its. I'm a 10 billion startup thing, but Google has to worry about that. So naturally they've limited their model more. So there are all these instructions and there's a term that's, that's, that's. Kevin: It may be permanent, but at the moment, I'm not quite sure it's called a constitution. And it's this idea that there's, there's an operating, we call the, the, the, the, anytime you type something into a LLM, it's a prompt, but there are all these hidden prompts that are behind the scenes. And those hidden prompts are, let  Andy: me catch you right there. Andy: You, you, you mentioned a buzzword that I want to make sure everybody knows you said.  Kevin: Large language model. So a GPT is one of the large language models. Um, Lama from Meta and Facebook is another one. Um, Google has its own that, that underpins BARD. Um, these are all, they've all done the similar thing where they've subsumed. Kevin: The Internet and are making these connections. Um, and then, yeah, that's a GPT is not the generalized term term. It's that it has that has to do with technical language transformation. So GPT is actually a technical term. Yeah. So anytime you put a prompt into these things, that's a set of instructions that the AI is then trying to follow. Kevin: But there's a whole set of hidden prompts behind the scenes that are basically don't be psychotic, like Try not to say like racist stuff. Try not to like incite violence. Like, don't try, don't answer legal questions in a way that could be misleading. Like, it's, it's, it's like this whole giant set of things and, you know, building that constitution into the model, um, the, the, sort of the strength of that constitution ties into, this is slightly wonky, but it ties into the, the, the, how crazy the outputs can be. Kevin: And there's another term in there that's called temperature. So the higher the temperature, the more likely it is to go batshit. That it's going to start making And what does a high  Andy: temperature mean? What,  Kevin: what is that? So it's a, it's like a continuum, like low temperature is cold. Just the facts, man. And stick to the fact Right. Kevin: This is what Okay, I see. High temperature is, we're going to loosen up. That loose that that that neural network and you know, I'm being I'm trying to paraphrase a little bit But like it's gonna loosen up the neural network and allow the network to make kind of wilder connections between things  Andy: Okay, so it's called something that's extremely factual like one plus one is two would that be very very cold  Kevin: not factual So that you got to be super careful like it's pretty okay. Kevin: All right high level of probability that 1 plus 1 is 2, but, but some of these models are very bad at math. Um, because they don't, that's not what they do. They're, they're predicting that one thought follows the golden rule. Okay, we have a lot of information about the golden rule. We, we are really, really comfortable that the golden rule is due unto others, right? Kevin: So that low temperature, it's going to connect this extremely high temperature. It may come up with something like Hmm. Maybe that means something different. Hmm. Let's just like connect things. So it gets creative on its own? It's creative. Don't anthropomorphize, but it's, it's easy to do, but it is, um, it just gets looser in its neural connections and it can be very powerful in terms of being extremely creative. Kevin: There's an example that's, uh, I like that. So a high  Andy: temperature means more creative.  Kevin: Yes. And most of the models by default operate at a relatively low temperature because, That's where the you should leave your life wife and marry me stuff comes in where it starts like It's crazy. Like, don't get me wrong. Kevin: Like, researchers in this space, they anthropomorphize it because it's doing stuff that they don't understand.  Andy: Well, I'm just wondering, um, number one, I'll ask you, and you could answer it now or later, is this, is this regulated? Because if it's high temp and it's super creative, which means it may not be accurate, should there be a disclaimer in the response that must be included if you use the tool? Andy: Because the answer may or may not be correct because it's high temp and where, where do we draw the line? Or is there a line being drawn on telling someone disclosing the use of the tool?  Kevin: So this is where Europe is heading. Europe is heading to a disclosure of AI, and I think we may see something similar. Kevin: To this in the U S at some point, but it's a commons issue. Like that sort of disclosure is only as good as the compliance of the community and the enforcement mechanisms that make that happen. And I have doubts having lived in the digital marketing trends as long as I have that. If there's an edge to be had, people don't have to use these models. Kevin: So that's, we haven't really talked  Andy: about that. And right now I can write a blog post about whatever I want, factual or not. It's up to someone else to actually decide if it's right or not. I don't have to, there's no disclosure I have to put on it currently.  Kevin: And you bury it in your terms anyway, in the bottom of the fine print somewhere. Kevin: Yeah. It's like an affiliate disclosure that, um, it is possible that artificial intelligence was in some way used to construct this particular note, this particular route. Right. So maybe by  Andy: default, someone would have to trust the author, i. e. trust Kevin, trust Andy, trust the author. Then you'll trust the words, but don't trust the words. Andy: All by themselves, unless you trust the source, which is essentially where we're at today anyway.  Kevin: Yep, exactly. Do you trust the source? So authority, you have a lot of authority in this space, because you have such a great community, and you know, there's a lot of energy and output and such. That is why search engines reward you, or I assume reward you for that output. Kevin: Mm hmm. The same will be true in these models that, that, and that's the winners will be those who have a lot of authority and a lot of credibility and that will make it very hard for new entrants to, to batter through. In my opinion, there will always be shenanigans or tactics that are designed to like break through the model and try and get something that to get attention. Kevin: Um, but I think it's going to be a lot harder than it has been with a search engine optimization SEO over the years.  Andy: Let me ask you a quick question. Do you think a service business? Landscape contractor, landscape maintenance, service business, irrigation, you know, they could write an article about, let's say, turf grass management, and they could write that article with the audience being the world, yet that, with the audience being the world, that pool is extremely competitive, which makes me think that they should use That's AI to write something more hyperlocal so that they're found with somebody in their service area, and that's what matters. Andy: It's like lawn care maintenance in Peoria, Illinois, and being the expert there, but not Santa Fe, New Mexico.  Kevin: So I think, would that be the right way to think of it? I think it would. And you and I chatted briefly about Sunday. I mean, that might be a polarizing company in your world, but they do from a sales mechanism. Kevin: They're very, very good about using satellite imagery and sort of loose connections about soil density and soil construction in order to get you into their marketing funnel. And they can do that because they were extremely well funded. And, you know, they, they spent a lot of money trying to figure this out. Kevin: And the fact is there's really nothing right now preventing a Peoria, Illinois provider who knows about soil to be able to output like sort of micro geo content. Based on the information that they have to, to educate the Peoria, Illinois population about the very specific aspects of their soil on a level that someday can never touch because it's just microform. Kevin: They're too  Andy: big, right? Exactly. They're the authority in this particular area based on their experience just in this area, which someone who lives in that area, they would want to hire someone. That knows a thing or two about that specific location.  Kevin: So imagine you have your scholarly article, let's put a few of them in there that are about like how to manage, you know, pH, whatever it is, and then you can put a data set or even even sort of qualitative information. Kevin: Well, I happen to know that Be embarrassed to show you guys my lawn, but the, uh, like I happen to know I'm in a high clay area and like, I don't really know what that means, but like, you, if you feed all of this in, you could come up with a very practical micro guide that's very effective without necessarily having to do the whole lift of, of, of doing the brain dump. Kevin: Of everything, you know, about high clay environments. Um, you could use the AI as your assistant to relatively rapidly output that information. So, I mean, honestly, that's, that's very practical. Like anybody listening to this. If you're that hypothetical Peoria, Illinois, like provider, you should totally do this. Kevin: There's SEO value to that, like as far as having content that, that a local, like long care tips in Peoria, you know, right now you might actually find, if you were to type that in, there are all of the dynamically generated, like SEO articles about there that do that. But that's kind of crap content on the inside. Kevin: If you have authority as somebody who's in that community. Plus, you know, being a professional organization there, plus offering this micro content that's useful to people. You wouldn't have bothered before this. Now you can do it. You can do it this in like a half an hour. Like this is, it's, it's way easier than it, than it would have been. Kevin: And. Is it going to change your business, but is it going to, on the edges, allow you to build out just this, this corpus of credibility that, that in a very SEO sort of way can follow you over the years? Yeah, that's very plausible. Wow, this  Andy: is really hands on. I mean, I think we could, there could be a ton of value in actually doing a live workshop that could be recorded for people to see later, but take similar businesses, i. Andy: e. irrigation, contracting companies that number one, all have to have a website. I'll know exactly the type of work that they do and all know exactly their, who their best customer ideally is create some content, you know, copy pasted onto their blog, you know, know what the traffic is now. And then over. Andy: let's say three, six months, what happens after the end of six months? Could we get a cohort together that becomes like number one ranked in all of their local areas through a quick training demo seminar?  Kevin: There's value in that. I think that'd be  Andy: fun. Wow. Okay. Well, we can't show people actually how to use chat GPT today, but I love how you talked about some of the context because I feel like that's what I've had to learn the most about is not just asking it a simple question, but creating that frame. Andy: Um, and believe it or not, I learned it from my son, who was apparently was taught how to use this in college, and he's a computer science major, and you know, he uses it actually to correct some of his code when it doesn't work, uh, among other things, but he was the one that taught me you got to basically, you know, tell it who it is, what its job is, all those sorts of things to frame it. Andy: Which I had no idea about and I think that a lot of people may use again Just chat GPT and then say, you know, I tried it, but it didn't give me the results. So yeah,  Kevin: I'm done And so let's let's wrap a little bit of truth practical other practical ways that I think that everybody should be using it and cool, it's you know ranging from just dead simple to much more complicated but the Most simple bit is none of us have any excuse to have blank page syndrome again Like, some people are talented content creators. Kevin: A lot of people aren't. I am not. I, I actually can write, but it is an agonizing process for me. I'm not that guy who just can hammer something. And I have blank page syndrome. I sit there, I look at the page, and I kind of play with some words, and I'm like, eh. We  Andy: don't have that. Then your mind starts to hurt, and you'll go, eh, I'll, I'll try it again tomorrow. Andy: And then it's just repeat, repeat, repeat, and you never frickin do it.  Kevin: So now it's like I need to write a letter to X, Y, and Z client, and this is the sort of stuff that it can't contain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and bam, you've got a draft. And then my art and my effort is spent on revising that draft and personalizing it and putting the me into that draft. Kevin: But I'm already, I've gone from zero to eight, like in 15 seconds or, you know, it's spending a little bit of time. Going back and forth with it working on tone, you know, bringing that down a little bit. So that's one It's just you you don't need blank page syndrome again Like you just start with something and then work them in related is a brainstorming partner is like Trying to isolate good ideas. Kevin: What's a bad omnipotent Personal assistant, um, next to you who knows everything about everything and occasionally lies to you, but they're very enthusiastic about it. So pretty cool to have like this brilliant thing that you can like bounce ideas off of and none of it's perfect, but boy, does it come up with some just interesting things, particularly if you, if it's like come 10 actionable headlines for this topic, like, oh, that's kind of interesting. Kevin: Like, Oh, that's neat. Let's explore this a little bit more. Um, also related. Um, you know, I think a lot of small companies struggle with creative design and creative development and are frankly beholden to a lot of creative like people and agencies out there that charge a lot of money for it. Being able to use this as sort of a creative designer assistant, again, you're not going to get to eight or nine in this case, if you're not already creative, but being able to use it to get to, you know, six, seven, eight, and like maybe script out a video or a piece of content and have an idea of what that's going to take to get it done. Kevin: Oh, you know, what sort of camera angles might I use? And then you walk into the conversation. with that creative partner, and you're way more equipped. You have a good idea of what the storyboard looks like and what it feels like. And then their art is layered on top of that because they don't know your business. Kevin: Like as much as we all love the idea of having a creative agency that knows everything about us, they're busy and they might know something about your business, but you will always know your business better than they will. So if you can kind of skip that phase and get to the, the, the creative production part. Kevin: That can be super, super useful, um, correcting documents, um, or assessing documents rapidly. Just, just being able to absorb information like in your guy's world, like every time a new regulation comes out or if, uh, you know, scholarly articles, if you're a real geek, you know, whatever it is, being able to rapidly ingest that information in a way that, that you just, you have it in your to do list. Kevin: Okay. Like I have family members who love to send me Atlantic articles. Like they're always like. 15 pages long and like, I just can't, I like don't have the bandwidth to read it. So I'll put the article in GPT. I'll summarize it. I'll frame who I am, uh, and like be able to come up with a summary that, uh, that, that, that is appropriate for who I am, that, and then I can decide if I'm going to engage in whatever, wow. Kevin: The first thing  Andy: I think of when you say that is, could we take, let's say the national plumbing code and use it to help understand what the requirements are for irrigators as it relates to the national plumbing code on what you can and can't do and what the laws and regulations are.  Kevin: Theoretically. Yeah, you could. Kevin: Wow. Your art. Don't forget your art. Like, you know, there's a code inspectors, like even you guys probably don't totally know, like, Where that line is, and it would make me a little nervous, um, to do that, but I bet you'd get some pretty meaningful output from it. Um, it would be an interesting test actually. Kevin: And just maybe  Andy: a summary format, like, Hey, can you summarize the national plumbing code and what irrigation companies should know are responsible for, you know, in a  Kevin: summary. So I literally did something like this. It was an OSHA regulation for scissor lift safety. And, um, I put in the OSHA reg and I asked it questions about like, this is not something I was doing as a hobby. Kevin: There's, I have a client who is in this world, just to be clear that I, yeah. You  Andy: weren't just going to rent a, yeah,  Kevin: a lift and go out there. But I was, I was, I was. Clean your windows. About like, you know, I have this situation, like there's a two 20, um, junction right here. Like how far away does the scissor lift need to be? Kevin: And it did an ad, it did a very good job. And I think let's think ahead a little bit. Well, what, like this is all cool. Right. But. Man, this is going to be powerful. Like you imagine that you're an onsite contractor and you've run into X, Y, and Z scenario, like right on your phone, like, Hey, I've run into this. Kevin: You know, there's a T junction of whatever flow rate. And how does this apply to, um, you know, the code of. Peoria, Illinois and flow rates that will yeah, no doubt about it. Right.  Andy: Exactly. So today, uh, we've got something called friction loss, uh, friction loss charts. So those listening likely know what a friction loss chart is. Andy: It'll tell you what the PSI loss is per hundred feet based on a specific flow rate and a specific pipe. And if somebody were out in the field today, it's very hard to have all of those things memorized. It's actually. probably impossible to have them all recalled in your head, but just to be able to ask, ask it, Hey, what's the PSI loss on 2. Andy: 5 inch PVC pipe or a hundred feet. Cause you want to make a change to your design. You need some quick engineering facts.  Kevin: Sounds interesting. That's going to be a thing. It will, it may already be like, that's, this is changing. So, so fast. I mean, I literally was in the middle of the presentation and when Andy and I were in Vegas and a new feature was released in GPT. Kevin: As I refreshed my screen, and I was like, Oh, that's new. Yeah, it's, it's very hard to keep up with. Um, and the possibilities are virtually endless. So, yeah. So what other things? So business businesses, you all have a bunch of customers. You could dump your customer data into it and ask it to visualize it and visualize where the clusters, you know, you have sales staff that are out and they're, they're covering things. Kevin: Um, It's a bit of a lift to do some sort of geographic sales analysis of how effective you're being. But if you dump the data in and you can tell it to visualize, um, where all your customers are, like almost do like word cloud type type. Deals, it'll do that. You can see that, you know, 85022, like you're doing really well in that zip code. Kevin: So kudos to that salesperson. But these other zip codes, you know, they're not, or maybe they have a lot of customers, but revenue is lower. Identify  Andy: opportunities. That was my next thought is I think that. Contractors probably have revenue per customer because that's the account. They may not have profitability per customer because they may not job cost down to that level of detail. Andy: But could you, you know, do what you just said? Say, show me geographically where, you know, a majority of our revenue comes from or where our profit comes from.  Kevin: You absolutely could, and easily, easily you could. Major caveat. You're putting your data out there, and you've got to decide if you care. Um, I have a very practical, uh, attitude about this. Kevin: That... There. The, the LLMs are not in the business of yielding your data, but there is evidence that they are porous at the moment. So if you put highly sensitive data in there that you know, the formula for Coke or something like that, it is possible that the MO model. maybe training itself on that. So if somebody somewhere then asks for the formula for Coke, um, since you've put it in there, it can connect the dots, but we're not talking about,  Andy: so you might not want to disclose the name or the address, but maybe just the zip code. Andy: And that might be good enough. The first column was a zip code.  Kevin: So, but I'm, I'm not too stressed about it. You can turn some of these tracking features off and the training features off. But somebody would have to. Like the data would have to be meaningful, right? That, that, that somebody would be interested in it and like be able to put it together and whatnot. Kevin: So know that and you're going to start to see micro LLMs develop. Um, I don't think in this scale of business so much, but in medium sized businesses, you're going to start to see captive this is just Kevin pontificating, but you're going to start to see captive LLMs such that they are walled. Such that the organization can play with the LLM, but it's not necessarily getting out into the corpus of the world. Andy: I mean, I think it, uh, you're right, is we don't know how the data could be used now, but if, if the engine, if that's what you call it, the, the machine ends up with, if everybody uploads all of their sales data by zip code, then potentially the machine knows where people are spending money on outdoor, you know, services. Andy: So if we had a new, business we wanted to sell into a brand new greenfield market. It's a startup and we could ask it, show me the areas that spend the most on irrigation systems and it could provide that to us. Then we would have a target on how to go sell holiday lights or ponds or landscape lighting or something else, patios. Kevin: Yeah, we could. And it's pulling from all kinds of different data sources as well. So, um, so other practical things. So let's talk about images.  Andy: I was gonna say, um, that's what I wanted to get into next, just briefly, because we are kind of running out of time. But could we talk a little bit about images? Andy: Sure,  Kevin: uh, so In much the same way that the language models can predict what word comes next, image models do the same thing on a pixel level. So they're predicting, based on their neural network, what could actually come out next. And this can allow you to enter prompts, in a similar way as GPT, into a model like MidJourney. Kevin: is, uh, the one that I prefer, but there's also Dolly, uh, stable diffusion. There's a few, a few others that are out there that allow you to visualize things. So here you've done your blog. Um, now you need, uh, an image to go along with the blog. You could go to Getty or one of the other image provider things and find a dude squatting next to a sprinkler. Kevin: Or you could ask the The image generator to come up with, you know, middle aged guy working on a sprinkler in their yard mountains in the background and come up with a plausible image that you can use very, very quickly. That's adapted to what you need on a professional and you and I did  Andy: this. Briefly, like with a five, a five minute, you know, demo. Andy: And I'm, I'm curious, do you still have the copy of that image that we created with  Kevin: AI? Which one that does the discord image? Yeah, I do.  Andy: Yeah. Cause maybe what we could do is if you could email that to me, I will, you know what, I may use it as the cover of this article. I'm not article, but of this podcast, uh, on sprinkler nerds so that you guys can see an example of an AI generated image that Kevin made with me with a couple prompts. Andy: So if we still have it, let's, let's  Kevin: pull it up on my screen. So it's, uh, yeah, cool. Um, so it's, it's like a guy, I think, what's the, what's the prompt? Let me read the prompt. It was, uh, If you're  Andy: listening to this on Apple podcast or Spotify or something to see the cover art, I think you will need to go to this episode on sprinklernerd. Andy: com. That's where you'll see the actual graphic that Kevin's talking about.  Kevin: So the prompt is 30 year old energetic man checking a sprinkler in a deep green lawn. Nikon photorealistic and the trigger there is I'm trying to get it. It knows what a Nikon photorealistic image should look like, so it's not going to be some wild cartoon like, you know, psychedelic type thing. Kevin: It's trying to get it to be as real as possible. And sure enough, there's a guy squatting next to a sprinkler that is pretty well unusable. Now, from a processing perspective, you know, just let's just talk more work a day like you don't know what's going on. I, I've always advised, so I guest lecture on the stuff, um, entrepreneurship in general. Kevin: And I've always told my classes that, you know, you need to know basic Photoshop if you want to be a, a group by base level entrepreneur, because if you're not a creative person, you're going to be beholden to those agencies and it takes a long time, even if you're outsourced. So you're waiting for the student. Kevin: So things like practical things, like I need to remove a background. So, you know, I see Andy's logo behind him. I need, I need a transparency of this logo. Like there's an app for that, that, you know, for basically nothing. You can go to remove BG and it's going to pull out the background or image correction or image resizing. Kevin: And what you're going to see is a lot of these tools are going to be baked into the image processing software, like. Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, I highly recommend if you're graphically oriented that you check out Adobe Firefly, uh, because it is magic. Like. I want a picture of a deer. Okay, now let's put the deer in an alley. Kevin: Oh, let's make the alley dark and add a sign over this door. And it's just on the fly creating all of this stuff. Which should make any graphic design oriented person tremble in their boots because... The most graphic designers make their, most of their income off of the stupid little stuff. The image correction and things. Kevin: It's not the big creative projects. And you're going to see that's going to be an industry that's going to be highly disrupted as a result of this. But yeah, even  Andy: Canva today is really disruptive, but not nearly what you're talking about. But Canva  Kevin: will implement this stuff too. So you can also do video voiceover. Kevin: I mean, be very afraid about voiceover and deep fake potential. Like we're not going to get political, but the next few years in this country should be very, very interesting. That way it's an election cycle and we're going to see all kinds of crazy stuff. And just to get, you know, philosophical for a second, we're going to end up in a place where you can't trust things and that's not a good place to be at all. Kevin: But just know that you can replicate your own voice in 15 minutes. Like I do a lot of podcasts, my voice is out there. So I had this bit of an epiphany and I called my, you know, 83 year old mother and I said, look, it is entirely possible that somebody could call you with my voice and try and get access to your bank accounts. Kevin: Like. That is actually possible right now and I gave her a safe word, like, you know, if you ever feel weirded out, whether or not it's actually me, um, just ask and, um, you know, we can verify, right? Don't say your safe  Andy: word. Don't say it. Andy: That's a great tip, actually. I think I'll, I'll, uh, with my family, come up with a safe word for all of us in the event that somebody does this. I think that's a really good  Kevin: tip. And it's awful, but people, it's already happening where people will get calls from their kids. I've been kidnapped. You need to send, you know, 10 grand right now. Kevin: Like that is happening. Now the positive side is like you're very soon you're going to have the ability to have these virtual customer service agents that can actually talk to people. Um, it's also terrifying, but. Like that's, let's just stay on the positive, right? That these are, these are, these, we are going to be able to offer such a personalized experience to our customers that we are going to just be able to blow them away. Kevin: Like when you, right now you're busy, you're running around, you got all your crews, you maybe have one person answering your phone, maybe you have nobody answering your phone. The phone can be answered. Chats can be responded to like, this is an whole aspect of practical applications that you, you all should be thinking about that. Kevin: How can I, how can I create a better experience on a creepy experience, but a better experience for my customer using some of these tools to get them to what they need instead of the endless frustrating, like back and forth. So, so  Andy: this might be a good point. Two are a good time for me to mention. I would like to run an experiment. Andy: So if you've made it to the end of the episode here, I would like to run an experiment based on what Kevin just said about personalization. And I think I would like to I'm kind of just spitballing this as as I go. I'd like to put a form on my website. So let's just say I'm going to go with sprinkler. Andy: com forward slash Ink Works, I N K W O R K S. Ink Works. I'm gonna put a form there with a few questions, including your address and when you fill out the form, I'm gonna use one of Kevin's projects, ink works.ai to send you a personalized letter handwritten from me based on the input, personalized based on the inputs that you enter in the form. Andy: How's that  Kevin: sound? That sounds awesome. So, and that's, that's my, and  Andy: I'm going to pay for it. It comes with a fee and that's Kevin's project right now, inkworks. ai. So I'd like to actually test it in real time with you guys listening and, um, you know, give you, give you a taste of what Kevin's  Kevin: working on. So we do, we're using, uh, LLM technology to interpret messages. Kevin: And then we're using pen wielding robots to handwrite notes. So, let's imagine you did a big landscaping project for a customer. Like, you know you should send them a thank you note. Or a Christmas card, or whatever it is. But you never get around to it, because it's, it's, it's time consuming. Um, using Inkworks, you can produce that letter. Kevin: And it comes out handwritten, absolutely unique. Um, I of course have them piled around here. They look like they're written by... And, um, it's remarkable efficacy and very ironic that I'm using multiple layers of AI to create something that's so highly personalized specifically because people are craving that personalization that we're all bombarded by all of this information constantly with emails and SMS and all this stuff and people just ignore it and it's just going to get worse as AI continues to advance. Kevin: Um, so. Ironically that my, one of the first toeholds I have is doing something analog with something amazingly complex.  Andy: So great. So great. Can't wait to run this experiment. Uh, on that note, you know, Kevin does, uh, coach businesses in this field. If you would like to, uh, hire Kevin to, you know, help you with your business, coach your employees, give you tips. Andy: How can somebody reach out to you, Kevin?  Kevin: Yeah, the easiest is, uh, Kevin at www. inkworks. ai. Um. Or I'm relatively easy to find on, on LinkedIn. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm out there.  Andy: Very cool. Very cool. And hopefully we can maybe find a time to do a little online training as well. And again, visit sprinkler. com forward slash inkworks and let's test out Kevin's software. Andy: I'm really excited to do that. And. You know, Kevin, I think that from all the people who I have met that are into AI and use the tool, I don't think I've met someone as knowledgeable as yourself, and I really appreciate you sharing  Kevin: this with us today. Thank you. I'm clearly passionate about it. This is the future, guys. Kevin: Okay,  Andy: well, until our next AI conversation. Thanks so much, Kevin. Have a great one.  

This episode is available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.In this episode of the Contrarian Marketing Podcast, we discuss Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels, and the future of Meta, formerly known as Facebook.With TikTok taking headlines at the Mobile Apps Unlocked conference and Meta nowhere to be found, what does this mean for the future of tech companies? Can we really count them out? As Kevin says, "I think you can never ever count a tech company out, especially a tech company with tons of cash."They also delve into* The psychology behind contrarian marketing strategies * How Apple's VR headset might change the game for communication and productivity* Whether WhatsApp channels disrupt conventional brand marketing* If AI can change the playing field in searchJoin Kevin and Eli as they dissect these questions and much more!Transcript[00:00:00] Contrarian Marketing Podcast: Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels, and TikTok at Mobile Apps Unlocked[00:00:00] Kevin: Stop.[00:00:05] Eli: Hi, welcome to another episode of the Contrarian Marketing podcast where we give you ideas you might not be thinking about today.[00:00:11] Eli: We're talking about Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels and other news.[00:00:16] Eli: Eli, you just went to an event that is not the Apple WWDC.[00:00:21] Eli: Tell us about it.[00:00:22] Kevin: So I went to an event in Vegas call the Mobile Apps Unlocked conference and they did an interesting thing where they allowed all marketers who are not at agencies to go for free.[00:00:33] Kevin: So I'm not a big fan of paying 1000 $502,500 to go and attend a conference because if anything we've learned from the Pandemic, you could do a lot of learning without going anywhere.[00:00:44] Kevin: I go for the network, but I don't know necessarily if a network is worthwhile.[00:00:48] Kevin: So I don't really want to invest 1000 $502,500 in that conference because I can't go to that many.[00:00:52] Kevin: Like I would certainly do that for most the most awesome conference, but for a conference I've never heard of before or vaguely knew about, not sure I'd do that.[00:01:00] Kevin: But this conference was free for marketers.[00:01:02] Kevin: Obviously I had to pay my own travels in Las Vegas.[00:01:05] Kevin: It's called mobile apps.[00:01:06] Kevin: Unlocked.[00:01:06] Kevin: I think it was 1000 2000.[00:01:08] Eli: People talks about mobile.[00:01:10] Kevin: Of course, a lot of growth marketers there met fascinating people.[00:01:13] Kevin: But TikTok was a headline sponsor and they had dozens of TikTok employees.[00:01:18] Kevin: And they talked about all the things that TikTok does gaming, creative partnerships, a lot of things that go well beyond influencers.[00:01:26] Kevin: Dancing to the latest pop on TikTok videos, but really like how they integrate and how they monetize and how they can partner with creators.[00:01:34] Kevin: But what I felt was thought was fascinating was TikTok was headline sponsor.[00:01:38] Kevin: Facebook was not there.[00:01:40] Kevin: Meta was not there at all as a sponsor, as a booth, as anything, and they didn't even have any employees there.[00:01:47] Kevin: Now I get there are austere times at Meta, they're doing layoffs, maybe they are not out there as much as they used to be, but to not be there at all seemed fascinating to me.[00:01:57] WhatsApp and the future of Meta[00:01:57] Kevin: So we're going to talk today about WhatsApp which is a Meta company.[00:02:02] Kevin: But I think it's interesting that where Facebook is going and how they're going to retrench and how they're going to pivot.[00:02:08] Kevin: I think you can never ever count a tech company out, especially a tech company with tons of cash.[00:02:13] Kevin: Like how many times has Microsoft been counted out or how many times has even IBM been counted out?[00:02:18] Kevin: And then they came out there with Watson and you're like, oh, IBM is cool again.[00:02:21] Kevin: And people are saying maybe Google is behind the times because of chat JBT, lots of cash.[00:02:27] Kevin: So Facebook, certainly the usage of Facebook has been declining.[00:02:32] Kevin: I just saw this quote.[00:02:33] Kevin: I don't know if you watch Ted.[00:02:34] Eli: Lasso, of course, I just watched the last season of the third sorry, the last episode of the third season.[00:02:40] Eli: Yesterday.[00:02:40] Eli: I'm not going to spoil it.[00:02:41] Kevin: No, don't spoil it because I watched it.[00:02:43] Kevin: But we don't want to spoil it for our listeners.[00:02:44] Kevin: But did you see the part where Keeley got in trouble because she had a it wasn't a sex tape but it was just like a tape leak.[00:02:51] Eli: It was pretty close to sex tape.[00:02:53] Kevin: Yeah, close enough.[00:02:54] Kevin: Whatever.[00:02:54] Kevin: It's not real anyways.[00:02:55] Kevin: It's a show.[00:02:56] Kevin: And they told her that she had to put out her apology on the socials and they said you don't need to put it on Facebook because that's just for old people and rapists or something like that.[00:03:04] Eli: Pretty harsh.[00:03:05] Eli: Pretty harsh.[00:03:06] Kevin: That was pretty harsh.[00:03:07] Eli: I'm always a shoestring away from deleting my Facebook account and yet at the same time I am going to say that Meta's total number of users has gone to all time highs and I.[00:03:17] Kevin: Feel like Instagram and WhatsApp, but not through the Blue Facebook.[00:03:22] Eli: Well, not for us.[00:03:23] Eli: And I think even in the US they actually edit more Blue Facebook users.[00:03:27] Eli: But it's not our generation.[00:03:29] Eli: We're not the target audience of Facebook anymore.[00:03:31] Eli: I think it's I don't know about.[00:03:32] Kevin: You, but I am.[00:03:33] Kevin: I'm old.[00:03:34] Eli: Not that old.[00:03:35] Eli: Come on, it's not that bad.[00:03:36] Eli: We're going to talk a bit more about Meta in just a second.[00:03:39] Eli: There is some exciting news, especially for creators and for brands.[00:03:44] Apple Launches $3,500 VR Headset[00:03:44] Eli: But first we got to talk of course about the news of the day, maybe for me and not for Eli, which of course is that Apple has launched a $3,500 VR headset.[00:03:56] Eli: Now I got my own opinion about this, but I know Eli, you are the biggest Apple fan out there, so I'm going to let you speak first.[00:04:03] Kevin: So I used to be very anti Apple.[00:04:06] Kevin: I never purchased an Apple product, ever.[00:04:09] Kevin: I used a MacBook when I had a full time job because it was easier, of course.[00:04:14] Kevin: But when it came to purchasing products, I was never part of the cult of Mac or the cult of Apple.[00:04:19] Kevin: I've always had Android devices.[00:04:21] Kevin: My wife had an Apple device for some time and I didn't provide tech support for it when things happened.[00:04:26] Kevin: But I said if she was on an Android, I was going to be able to help it because I understood it.[00:04:29] Kevin: But I wasn't going to go learn an Apple system.[00:04:31] Kevin: So I've never purchased any Apple products.[00:04:33] Kevin: But I did recently purchase an iPad and this is my first Apple product and it's sucker man.[00:04:39] Kevin: I think it is a slippery slope to an iPhone, which is a slippery slope to maybe a MacBook, which next thing you know we're going to be doing this on a VR headset.[00:04:47] Kevin: So I typically think that a lot of what Apple does is extremely high end tech.[00:04:53] Kevin: It's not necessarily mainstream.[00:04:55] Kevin: That's my first opinion of the VR headset.[00:04:58] Kevin: I think it surprises me how many Apple watches have been sold because again, it's an expensive high end tool that you don't necessarily need if you're just trying to tell the time or get notifications.[00:05:10] Apple VR headset and its future impact[00:05:10] Kevin: Love to hear your thoughts on Apple VR headset and how you think it'll be used, especially at that price tag.[00:05:15] Kevin: I mean that price tag, it almost needs to be used expensed by companies rather than individuals.[00:05:21] Eli: The first thought is who is going to buy that?[00:05:25] Eli: And I think this is fulfilling a couple of purposes.[00:05:30] Eli: One is for Apple to have something out there.[00:05:35] Eli: I do believe that in the future we'll use VR and AR.[00:05:39] Eli: I don't believe that future is that close yet.[00:05:42] Eli: This is a high end consumer product for the richest of the rich, for maybe a few hotels or experiences that might provide this.[00:05:51] Eli: But this is not a yeah, you know, and maybe people said this about the $1,000 iPhone as well, but I don't see this being something that millions of people will buy just yet.[00:06:01] Eli: Maybe in the future when the price comes down and the price will come down.[00:06:04] Eli: The second thought is what's the use case here?[00:06:08] Eli: And it's really only a few use cases.[00:06:10] Eli: One of them is games.[00:06:12] Eli: And I don't think there is a killer game out there yet that you need these glasses for.[00:06:17] Eli: I might be wrong, I'll stand corrected.[00:06:19] Eli: I haven't tried them out yet, but I don't see this killer game yet.[00:06:22] Eli: The other one is sports events where you might be in the middle of a baseball field and that's going to be very attractive to people.[00:06:28] Eli: And then the third one, and that to me is the one that has the most utility and value is the office.[00:06:35] Eli: I think VR and AR is the best way to foster connections when people work remotely and that's where meta ism, is innovating heavily and I think that's their best trot.[00:06:46] Eli: Right.[00:06:47] Eli: I think VR and AR glasses are going to come through a work setting.[00:06:51] Eli: They're going to be a productivity tool to foster connection and to improve the experience you have when you communicate with people.[00:06:57] Eli: So that's kind of the first thought.[00:06:59] Eli: Again, the last thought that I'm going to say, which I think is a bit more contrarian, is typically innovation comes from the bottom up.[00:07:08] Eli: It's cheap and affordable, it comes from startups.[00:07:11] Eli: But I don't think startups are yet at a place to build affordable and good enough VR AR headsets.[00:07:18] Eli: So it has to be Apple.[00:07:20] Eli: And I think Apple actually has the best trot at making this a truly broad customer or consumer success.[00:07:28] Eli: But that time is not yet.[00:07:30] Eli: So I don't think they're going to make money on this in the next five years, but I think they're going to might set themselves up to crush it over the next ten years.[00:07:38] Kevin: Yeah, I think it's fascinating that they're trying this after Google failed.[00:07:41] Kevin: I mean, Google Glass failed is useless.[00:07:43] Kevin: Have you ever tried the google Glass?[00:07:45] Eli: I have not.[00:07:46] Eli: But Google is not a good hardware company.[00:07:49] Eli: They're not a consumer hardware company.[00:07:50] Eli: So this was a mood shot, and Apple has tons of experience in selling to consumers.[00:07:56] Kevin: Okay.[00:07:57] Kevin: And now Facebook tried, but Oculus is not saving Facebook as a company.[00:08:01] Kevin: So it's just interesting that Apple is trying this when there have been some notable failures.[00:08:08] Kevin: Oculus was not driven towards the business market, so maybe, maybe that's different.[00:08:14] Kevin: But again, $3,500 for a remote work tool when all of a sudden apple included companies are requiring that their employees come back to the office.[00:08:24] Kevin: Kind of interesting.[00:08:25] Kevin: It is.[00:08:26] Eli: I heard that the quality must be amazing.[00:08:28] Eli: It must be absolutely outstanding.[00:08:30] Eli: Again, I haven't tried it out yet, so I'm going to reserve final judgment, but those are the early thoughts you already started.[00:08:35] WhatsApp Channels: A New Way for Brands and Creators to Connect with Users[00:08:35] Eli: We mentioned Meta twice in this conversation.[00:08:37] Eli: Once with the TikTok event you went to, and the other time the Metaverse and all the hardware that they built with Oculus.[00:08:45] Eli: Now there's a new interesting development from the Meta side, which is on WhatsApp, and that is WhatsApp channels.[00:08:53] Eli: So in essence, WhatsApp channels are simply channels you can follow.[00:08:57] Eli: They're going to be interesting for brands and creators to basically broadcast their content.[00:09:01] Eli: And I think that could be an interesting channel for brands moving forward.[00:09:06] Eli: First of all, because WhatsApp has very broad adoption, I have to fact check myself and look at the latest numbers, but I think they're not too far away from a billion people.[00:09:15] Eli: And there are not that many channels out there.[00:09:19] Eli: We recently spoke about innovative marketing channels.[00:09:21] Eli: You're going to find the episode in the show notes, but there aren't that many channels out there that aren't super crowded.[00:09:26] Eli: And this seems to be more of a channel where you can select the content you get, but it is similar to an email where you get the content straight to your inbox, or in this case, straight to your WhatsApp phone.[00:09:38] Eli: So I'm bullish while there's not a lot of information out there, got to keep an eye on this one.[00:09:44] Kevin: Yeah, I think.[00:09:45] Kevin: WhatsApp is an underutilized asset for Meta?[00:09:49] Kevin: For Facebook?[00:09:50] Kevin: They bought it for 19 billion.[00:09:51] Kevin: I think it was 19 billion and everyone thought it was insane, but it was an amazing purchase.[00:09:56] Kevin: And they've really grown that platform.[00:09:59] Kevin: But the reason I say it's underutilized is because they're not monetizing it at all.[00:10:05] Kevin: They've tried to put ads, I think in India, maybe they injected ads, but they're not monetizing it directly.[00:10:11] Kevin: And there are a lot of different uses of it where they could inject themselves more into some sort of monetization strategy, but they're not at all.[00:10:19] Kevin: And then one thing that is interesting about the one way they are using it, of course, is backlash.[00:10:24] Kevin: But again, people are using the people that use Blue, Facebook.[00:10:27] Kevin: So when they log into the regular Facebook app and they're people you may what do they call people you may know, or people you should know or people you should connect with or whatever it is you get freaked out by who shows up.[00:10:39] Kevin: They're like, oh, that's my ex boss, or that's my ex girlfriend, or that's the person that tried to kill me, or something like that.[00:10:45] Kevin: That's actually feeding off the context that you've uploaded through WhatsApp.[00:10:50] Kevin: That's the way they're using it.[00:10:51] Kevin: And it's helping, in theory, build that social graph in Facebook and maybe in Instagram too, but otherwise they're not directly monetizing.[00:10:59] Kevin: So it's great to see an innovation within WhatsApp that allows them to do it.[00:11:03] Kevin: There are things within WhatsApp, like there are businesses that post statuses.[00:11:06] Kevin: They post the sales and you follow our business, here's our sale.[00:11:10] Kevin: Facebook is not injecting themselves into that process at all and trying to help promote that status, helping to gather followers for that status.[00:11:18] Kevin: There's so many things they could do.[00:11:19] Kevin: So it's great to see Facebook investing in there.[00:11:22] Kevin: And like we said earlier, don't count them out.[00:11:25] Kevin: They've got lots of cash, they've got a huge network between all of their different platforms.[00:11:29] Kevin: They have many, many billions of users.[00:11:31] Kevin: So lots of potential there.[00:11:33] Eli: Yeah, thanks for fact checking me here.[00:11:35] Eli: I just want to correct myself.[00:11:37] Eli: I said they're close to a billion users.[00:11:39] Eli: Actually.[00:11:39] Eli: They actually have over 2 billion users.[00:11:41] Eli: So massive channel, I'll be the first one to start broadcasting there because I'm hungry for a new channel where I can be early and where I can establish a a presence.[00:11:52] Eli: The thing that I'm going to be most curious about is the discovery aspect.[00:11:56] Eli: So how are people going to find new creators and brands to follow?[00:11:59] Eli: Because that will be its own little optimization game.[00:12:02] Eli: Call it WhatsApp SEO or maybe don't.[00:12:04] Kevin: Well, one of the things I love about Facebook is the ability to market and to use interest targeting.[00:12:11] Kevin: So I would love if they could plug that into WhatsApp.[00:12:14] Kevin: And you can get more followers for your channel.[00:12:16] Kevin: You can get more people to see your channel, or more people to see your statuses or add to your groups and do all that with just Facebook marketing.[00:12:23] Kevin: And I think that's great.[00:12:25] Kevin: Facebook is the number one channel for doing interest targeting because they've got so much information, except with the usage declining, it's harder and harder to target people.[00:12:35] Kevin: Again, like we said earlier, I don't log into Facebook that often.[00:12:38] Kevin: I don't use instagram.[00:12:39] Kevin: So yes, Facebook has my data.[00:12:42] Kevin: You can in theory target me, but I'm not seeing those ads if I'm not on Facebook.[00:12:45] Kevin: Facebook does actually have other ad or other ways of showing ads, and they have partnerships with apps, but it's far more limited.[00:12:53] Kevin: If you don't have those apps, you don't have those gains.[00:12:55] Kevin: But again, if they can get you on Facebook, they have almost everyone on WhatsApp they can get you on Instagram, then they can target you and maybe they'll revive Oculus now that Apple showed them there's potential there.[00:13:06] Kevin: And they can inject ads into Oculus too.[00:13:09] Kevin: And then you can have an immersive experience with an advertiser speaking about ads and broadcasting.[00:13:15] Missing the boat: GameStop and CNN's failed attempts to adapt[00:13:15] Eli: CNN just fired their CEO and there is another company who also fired their CEO, and that is GameStop.[00:13:22] Eli: And there are interesting similarities between both of them.[00:13:25] Eli: They both kind of missed the boats, but from different ends of the spectrum.[00:13:29] Eli: So GameStop, they tried too much contrarian stuff.[00:13:35] Eli: They tried to save their fading or eroding business with a crypto platform or a blockchain platform that went up in smokes.[00:13:43] Eli: Business has been dying for years and nobody has really been able to turn it around.[00:13:47] Eli: And then CNN, on the other hand, they've been moving too slow.[00:13:51] Eli: They weren't able to really establish themselves as a streaming platform.[00:13:55] Eli: They wrote off a 300 million US dollar check where they tried CNN Plus as a streaming platform and then overnight pulled the plug from that.[00:14:03] Eli: And now the CEO has to kind of pay the price for not establishing themselves and CNN on the streaming horizon.[00:14:10] Eli: Eli, how have both of these brands missed a boat?[00:14:13] Eli: I mean, from your perspective, what is your opinion?[00:14:16] Kevin: I'm going to be super contrarian here.[00:14:18] Kevin: I think both of these businesses don't need to exist at all.[00:14:21] Kevin: I think they're hanging on to an old vestige of something else that we just don't need.[00:14:26] Kevin: I mean, GameStop is a retail store in a world where many people buy things online.[00:14:31] Kevin: Do you need a GameStop when you can even go to GameStop.com?[00:14:34] Kevin: A Sharper Image, like they went out of business, but sharperimage.com still exists.[00:14:38] Kevin: You can still buy Sharp brand, it still exists as a brand, but you just don't need Sharper Image stores.[00:14:41] Kevin: I think the same with CNN.[00:14:44] Kevin: There's a lot you can say around the politics of CNN.[00:14:47] Kevin: I think they thrived on Trump.[00:14:49] Kevin: You wanted that narrative of anti Trump a couple of years ago already, that Trump has not been president.[00:14:55] Kevin: Now, is there a need for media?[00:14:58] Kevin: Is there a need for 24 hours media that you're going to watch and that's profitable now?[00:15:03] Kevin: I won't argue against the need for media in general.[00:15:05] Kevin: You're not going to have TikTok influencers and Twitter thought leaders and LinkedIn influencers flying to the interesting places in the world and riding in tanks alongside the Ukrainian army.[00:15:16] Kevin: That's not going to happen.[00:15:18] Kevin: You need the media.[00:15:19] Kevin: You need a funded, official, accredited, organized media to do that.[00:15:25] Kevin: So media should exist.[00:15:26] Kevin: But do you need to watch it 24 hours?[00:15:28] Kevin: Do you need a talk show to digest the latest thing that maybe happened in politics, when you can sit on Twitter and digest it just the same while you're multitasking, while you're supposed to be at work, you don't need to watch that online or on TV.[00:15:41] Kevin: Even worse, do you even need to watch it streaming?[00:15:44] Kevin: Do you want to catch up on the latest argument between two talking heads, five talking heads, or however many talking heads they have, when again, you could just go on Twitter and participate in it.[00:15:54] Kevin: So I think that CNN is they've been around for a very long time.[00:15:58] Kevin: They popularized the idea of 24 hours media when there was no 24 hours media.[00:16:03] Kevin: And I think now do you really need 24 hours media?[00:16:06] Kevin: So maybe that's what CNN struggling with.[00:16:08] Kevin: Is it's an entertainment platform?[00:16:11] Kevin: We had an episode on streaming.[00:16:13] Kevin: Look at what HBO did.[00:16:14] Kevin: HBO merged into Max and I just got a notification.[00:16:18] Kevin: Do you have Xfinity or what do you have for Internet?[00:16:20] Eli: There xfinity.[00:16:21] Kevin: Yeah.[00:16:22] Kevin: Okay, so did you get an email from Xfinity saying they're pulling peacock out of Xfinity?[00:16:27] Eli: No, but what is peacock again?[00:16:29] Kevin: Exactly.[00:16:30] Kevin: So there's a million streaming platforms.[00:16:31] Kevin: I got an email this morning saying, sorry to tell you, but you no longer get peacock for free.[00:16:36] Kevin: There's a good reminder that I even had peacock for free from Xfinity because they're both owned by NBC, owned by GE.[00:16:41] Kevin: I think it's a struggle, like all these streaming platforms, netflix, crackdown on, password sharing.[00:16:46] Kevin: So do you need a CNN subscription?[00:16:48] Kevin: Is there even a reason that you need to watch or even pay for a CNN streaming subscription?[00:16:54] Kevin: So I think that bigger question is, should they exist?[00:16:57] Eli: It depends on the content.[00:16:58] Eli: They had.[00:16:59] Eli: For example, one show with Scott Galloway, and I would have loved to pay for that because the guy is genius.[00:17:06] Eli: However, I think there's going to be consolidation at some point where all these streaming networks are going to be facilitated by YouTube, TV or someone else.[00:17:14] Eli: I don't think all of these are going to survive and people are not going to pay for all of them, at least not constantly.[00:17:20] Eli: You might pay for a show for a while and then you got to cancel your subscription again.[00:17:24] Eli: So that's going to be challenging.[00:17:26] Breaking News and Dopamine Addiction[00:17:26] Eli: But what's interesting, and one thing that I want to highlight is how breaking news and this kind of news real where you constantly have news and then a few ads in between.[00:17:36] Eli: There was the original dopamine factory before Twitter came out, before these social platforms come out.[00:17:43] Eli: And I'm just tired, man.[00:17:46] Eli: I'm tired out of the constant dopamine cycles.[00:17:49] Eli: I'm tired of Twitter, I'm tired of endless scroll.[00:17:53] Eli: And breaking news to me is just endless scroll once the news broke their old news.[00:17:58] Eli: And so basically, people watching that, I see it, I know people who watch that stuff constantly.[00:18:04] Eli: And are they younger than 80?[00:18:07] Eli: Slightly, but not much.[00:18:09] Eli: That's exactly the point, right?[00:18:11] Eli: That's kind of the dopamine addiction of the older generation and much older generation.[00:18:15] Eli: And so they're going to die out of it.[00:18:18] Eli: They're missing addressing younger audiences and bringing new audiences on board.[00:18:22] Discussing AI-Powered Search and The Future of SEO[00:18:22] Eli: So let's wrap up, speaking about one company that is struggling with something very similar, and that is Google and Alphabet.[00:18:29] Eli: Now, YouTube, to be fair, is incredibly hot with the teens and the young generation.[00:18:34] Eli: But Google is increasingly replaced by other platforms like TikTok.[00:18:39] Eli: I see.[00:18:40] Eli: It my fiance's sister, she's in her early 20s.[00:18:43] Eli: She searches so much more stuff on TikTok.[00:18:45] Eli: And I'm not here to say that TikTok is the SEO killer or the Google killer.[00:18:49] Eli: This platform is struggling to address and keep young audiences as well.[00:18:54] Eli: And they recently launched their search Genera Experience, which is based on AI, which we just recorded a full episode about.[00:19:01] Eli: But Eli, a lot has changed since we recorded that episode a week ago.[00:19:06] Eli: What's your freshest take on this?[00:19:08] Kevin: So I actually think that Google is going to win.[00:19:11] Kevin: I think because they own the platform, they have all the users, they can keep getting people back onto the platform from all their other, from Android, from Gmail, from Sheets and Docs and all the other things that Google does.[00:19:24] Kevin: But I'm very bullish on Google's future.[00:19:26] Kevin: I think what they're doing with Generative AI, it's buggy right now, but it will improve.[00:19:31] Kevin: They launched an update to Bard, which is what's powering Generative Experiences to begin with, which you can now do logic.[00:19:38] Kevin: And in this blog post, which we'll link in the show notes, they explain System One thinking.[00:19:41] Kevin: System Two, which is based on Daniel Kahneman's Nobel Prize winning economics theory, which is System One is your initial emotional response, and System Two is more thought out.[00:19:52] Kevin: So system one, where system two is more logical.[00:19:56] Kevin: So system one is barred.[00:19:58] Kevin: It's just language like it gives you a response, it may or may not be correct.[00:20:01] Kevin: System Two can do logic and that's where Google thrives.[00:20:05] Kevin: So Chat GBT is competing on the system one.[00:20:07] Kevin: It's just a large language model, can give an answer.[00:20:10] Kevin: System Two is where Google's been great at this for the last two decades.[00:20:13] Kevin: And they're doing logic like you can ask it math questions, it's pulling from knowledge graph, it's using the massive superpowers of Google.[00:20:22] Kevin: So I think that's where they win.[00:20:24] Kevin: I think there's no competitor right now that's as good at both of those as Google.[00:20:28] Kevin: It as long as they don't lose market share.[00:20:30] Kevin: I do think Google wins, even with their buggy product.[00:20:33] Eli: I think nobody can be Google and Search.[00:20:36] Eli: I much more think that other companies are going to try to fragment search and kind of break it apart.[00:20:42] Eli: For example, Microsoft.[00:20:44] Eli: I've changed my opinion.[00:20:45] Eli: I don't think they're trying to win with Bing.[00:20:47] Eli: I think they might have a chance to win with Chat GPT, which is a completely different experience that now also features Bing search results, or they're just going to bring the whole damn thing into the taskbar at the bottom of your screen.[00:21:00] Eli: They might break it out of the browser and bring it to the operating system level.[00:21:04] Eli: So there's a whole lot of interesting stuff going on with AI search and SGE.[00:21:10] Eli: But I think one of the biggest trends that most people don't have on the radar is that you might just not need the browser anymore.[00:21:16] Eli: It might live natively in an app, or in Google Sheets, or again in your taskbar.[00:21:21] Eli: And so I think the biggest chance for other companies is to change the game.[00:21:25] Eli: Instead of trying to beat Google ad it.[00:21:26] Eli: Google has one search period.[00:21:28] Eli: But the question is now, how can you change the field?[00:21:31] Kevin: How can you change the playing field?[00:21:33] Kevin: Absolutely.[00:21:34] Kevin: And you're right.[00:21:35] Kevin: I don't think anybody's going to be Google.[00:21:37] Kevin: I think the playing field is changing underneath Google, and they're now catching up and changing with it.[00:21:43] Kevin: A recent newsletter, I talked about how this is what Google's always been doing.[00:21:47] Kevin: These are featured snippets.[00:21:48] Kevin: These are knowledge graph.[00:21:50] Kevin: They had LLM to begin with, but they didn't want to release it for two reasons.[00:21:53] Kevin: One, innovator's dilemma, because they would kill their business model, and they're definitely hurting their ads for the people that are in the beta.[00:22:00] Kevin: And the second reason is that it's risky.[00:22:02] Kevin: I mean, when it comes to Knowledge Graph, most of knowledge Graph is correct.[00:22:06] Kevin: I know, like, you search certain people, like one search, I think Rand Fishkin, there was a picture of Neil Patel that was based on knowledge Graph is broken.[00:22:13] Kevin: But for the most part, knowledge Graph is accurate.[00:22:15] Kevin: It pulls off a structured data.[00:22:17] Kevin: LLM is not LLM can say offensive, wrong things.[00:22:21] Kevin: Like it can give you the wrong advice and you can follow and do serious harm to yourself.[00:22:26] Kevin: So they can't control it because they don't know what's out there.[00:22:27] Kevin: So I get why they didn't release it, but now that they are releasing it and they are working with it, I think they will win.[00:22:34] Eli: We're green too much, Eli.[00:22:35] Eli: We got to change that.[00:22:36] Eli: But one area or kind of one place?[00:22:39] Kevin: You're wrong.[00:22:39] Kevin: You're just wrong.[00:22:42] Eli: Do better now.[00:22:43] Eli: So much better.[00:22:44] Dealing with disagreements and building strong business partnerships[00:22:44] Eli: One area where we're not agreeing all the time, or where we disagree more, is our new Slack Group.[00:22:48] Eli: Eli, you want to talk about that secretly?[00:22:51] Kevin: Not secretly.[00:22:52] Kevin: We quietly discussed this a couple of weeks ago in an episode.[00:22:56] Kevin: We want to launch a Slack Group that would help consultants become better consultants.[00:23:00] Kevin: We have the slack group.[00:23:01] Kevin: We're going to put up a link where you can apply to be a part of this.[00:23:04] Kevin: We want to make sure it adds as much value to everyone that is in the Slack Group, and of course ourselves too, that we just want to have a high caliber of the best consultants out there.[00:23:12] Kevin: We have not yet defined what the cutoff will be, but this will be for really, the best consultants.[00:23:19] Kevin: And just to give a sneak preview to an upcoming podcast, the greatest of all time, the Goat of consulting.[00:23:26] Kevin: Alan Weiss, who published, I think, six best selling books on consulting, the Million Dollar Consulting or Consultants book, which is the first one he came out with in the late eighty s I learned everything from and he's had six updates to that book.[00:23:38] Kevin: So we just interviewed him for a podcast.[00:23:41] Kevin: This is our very first interview ever.[00:23:43] Kevin: So if you're not subscribed and you're just listening to this podcast for the first time, this one's coming.[00:23:47] Kevin: This is going to be the best episode we have.[00:23:49] Eli: Man, I'm still on a high from that conversation.[00:23:52] Eli: There's going to be so much we have to record an episode about that episode, just digesting and commenting on all the nuggets that he got out.[00:23:59] Eli: So, yeah, everyone look forward to this.[00:24:01] Eli: That was an absolutely mind blowing conversation with many things he never mentioned before, many fun stories about tanks and trains and jeopardy.[00:24:13] Eli: It's going to be a wild one.[00:24:14] Eli: So, yeah, Eli, this is a wrap.[00:24:16] Eli: Looking forward to talk to you again next week.[00:24:17] Kevin: Thanks, John.[00:24:18] Kevin and Eli Discuss Contrarian Marketing Strategies[00:24:18] Eli: And now it's your turn.[00:24:19] Eli: Head over to Contrarianmarketingpodcast.com and subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to get a summary of today's episode, key takeaways and community content.[00:24:28] Eli: And while you're there, go to today's episode and leave your opinion in the comments.[00:24:32] Eli: We'll feature the best thoughts in the newsletter and on the podcast podcast.[00:24:35] Eli: Also, if you like today's episode, please feel free to leave five stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcast.[00:24:41] Eli: As always, thanks so much for tuning in and here next week. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.contrarianmarketingpodcast.com

Bob and Dina huddle with Kevin Goldberg, who also goes by “Krusher”, “Matchmaker” and now “Zombie Toddler” in case you happen to see him out on the trails and want to give him a shout out. Kevin is an ultra runner who has completed numerous 200+ mile races, including the Triple Crown of 200s, and recently placed 5th overall at the Cocodona 250. We chat about: · Kevin's introduction to running by way of his girlfriend (now wife) · How bilateral hip surgery at the age of 27 didn't set him back to delving into the 200-mile distance · The mental challenges of 200 mile races · His recent Cocodona 250 race (with barely 90 minutes of sleep!) · His “lucky level” of GI tolerance that enables him to eat pretty much anything · Sleeping logistics during a 200 · Tips for those who are crewing athletes at 200s · A few of the nuances between doing a 100 miler and a 200 miler · The fundraiser Kevin's wife, Melanie, is involved in as she prepares for the Bigfoot 200 in 2023 Quotes from Kevin: “Now my hips don't hurt, just everything else.” “Believing you can do it is 80% of the battle.” More about Kevin: He considers himself an “ultra distance adventure athlete” and is best known for running 200+ miles races for 'fun'. When he's not running or riding off-road, he's standing in a river fly fishing. He works at TrainingPeaks as the main matchmaker for coaches and athletes. You can find him on Instagram at @UltraFlyKev Melanie's fundraising for the Free to Run non-profit: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/melanie-white-bigfoot200/ Thanks for your continued support, listeners! Let us know what other guests you'd like for us to have on the show – email hello@insidesportsnutrition.com. Learn about the coaching and testing services we offer: Bob Seebohar at www.enrgperformance.com and Dina Griffin at www.nutritionmechanic.com

We’ve all been there. It’s late at night, you’re flipping through the channels and you stop on CNBC. Chances are there is an old episode of Shark Tank playing, and sitting in one of those leather chairs you might have seen Kevin Harrington, one of the original sharks. Now think back many years ago, you’re still flipping through the channels, but this time you stop on an infomercial for a George Foreman Grill or a Tony Little Gazelle. Did you know you were actually seeing Kevin there, too? Maybe not physically, but Kevin’s fingerprints and dollars were very much present in those “as-seen-on-TV” specials.  Kevin was the pioneer of the television infomercial, and, therefore, the direct-to-consumer industry. And when the internet emerged, Kevin was one of the first to move his sales online. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, we grabbed Kevin for a quick interview to discuss his latest book, Mentor To Millions, and asked him to take us through his transition from TV powerhouse to digital investor. Kevin explains some of the key areas he looks at when determining if a company is worth investing in, and he details some of the ways that eCommerce companies should be thinking about marketing and product strategy.    3 Takeaways:   If You Don’t Have Marketing Money, Get Marketing Money: It is impossible to have a successful business if no one knows you exist. No matter how small a company might be, marketing has to be a top priority and, when spent wisely, whatever you invest in marketing has the potential to lead to huge ROI. Follow the Customers: The move toward eCommerce began in the mid-1990s when TV infomercials started putting website addresses at the bottom of the screen. Suddenly, companies saw that customers were opting to bypass telephone operators and place the orders themselves, and from there, ecommerce as we know it emerged. By always testing new ways to capture customers, you create opportunities to discover and encourage new types of buying behavior. Exit This Way: What’s more valuable than a product? A brand. And with the marketing tools available today, the ability to create a brand that customers love and trust is easier than ever before. Big buyers everywhere are eager to tap into these niche, high-conversion networks, which in turn, creates exit opportunities for smaller companies that never would have existed in the past.    For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length. --- Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce --- Transcript: Stephaine: Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, and today I'm really excited. We have Kevin Harrington on the show, the OG original shark from Shark Tank and the CEO of Harrington Enterprises. Kevin, welcome. Kevin: Stephanie, thanks for having me. Looking forward to having some fun today. Stephaine: Oh, me too. Your background is so interesting. I feel like I can't even do it justice, going through how you started out in the world of e-commerce. So, I was hoping you could actually touch on that, of where did you start in Ecommerce? Because I see you listed as the original everything. The infomercial guy, the guy who created this stuff. So, I want you to put it in your words how you started out in this industry. Kevin: Okay. Yeah. So, I started... I was a young entrepreneur back in Cincinnati, Ohio, one of six kids, and I had started a... Getting, ordered cable television. And so, I remember I got a 30 channel package. This was, now, early eighties. And so, I'm going through my 30 channels, 24 hours of sports on ESPN and 24 hours of movies on HBO. I get to Channel 30 and there's nothing there. So, I call the cable company and I said, "Hey, look. I love this cable, all these channels, 29 of them. But I'm paying for 30. Nothing on channel, Discovery Channel." Kevin: And so, they said, "Oh, Discovery is our latest channel. It's brand new. They don't have a budget for 24 hours a day. They do an 18 hour a day schedule. Six hours is nothing." And so, that's when the light bulb went off. I'm thinking, "Wait." I said... I literally said to the person, "If I have something to put on that six hours, would you be interested?" "Hey, yeah. Come on down. Talk to us. We're definitely... Whatever you're thinking." Kevin: So, anyway, make a long story short, I started putting products on Discovery Channel back in the early eighties. I then tied up that six-hour block on the nationwide level at the parent, Discovery, which was in now tens of millions of homes. And so... And again, this is back in the early eighties and we were doing the Food Saver, the Jack LaLanne Juicer, the Tony Little Fitness, George Foreman, Billy Mays. We even started getting into mainstream celebrities like Paris Hilton and her lip plumpers and the Kardashians and their skin care and things like this. So, we got involved, and this was early on, the early eighties. Nobody else was doing this, so people call me the inventor of the modern day infomercial. Kevin: So, that's when it all started and we've, over the years, gone public with a few companies. Build them, sell them, build them, sell them. I like entrepreneurship and bringing in the right kind of team of people to help, but... So, as we were then selling products on TV, that was the beginning of my entry into the marketplace and I think as we started getting more sophisticated, things started happening down the road, where we started putting websites. Of course, in the early eighties, websites didn't exist, right? It wasn't until, I believe, around '94 that things started. I mean, Amazon started in '94. I was in business for a dozen years before Amazon ever started. So, selling products direct to the consumer. Kevin: And in the nineties, we started putting websites into our infomercials and wow. All of a sudden, we found a certain percentage of the people, they didn't want to call the operator. They wanted to go straight to that website, get all of the details, and now we found a whole new area business between websites and Amazon and digital and now when you look at Facebook, etc. etc., it's a whole new world. Stephaine: That's awesome. So, what does your role look like today? I read that you have launched more than 20 businesses that have grown to over 100 million in sales each, so I wanted to hear kind of what are you doing today and what kind of principles are you using that you've learned from the many years that you've been doing this? Kevin: So, that first company that I mentioned, we ended up being a public company in a little bit of a complicated transaction. But here we were, public on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock was sitting at a dollar a share and I started bringing the right kind of people on board and you give options and things to people. But make a long story short, a few years later, that stock went to $20, and so I was one of the co-founders and had millions of shares, so this was my first chance to be like... And take some chips off the table, as they say, right? So... Because I was building my business all those years, putting all my own personal cash back into building the business until we had a public company, then I could use other people's money. We had lines of credit and all kinds of amazing things. So, that was the first public company that I got involved with and we had great success with it. So, I thought to myself, look, yes. I can make money selling products, but I can also make money driving share prices in public companies. Kevin: So, since then, fast forward, I like to participate in public companies. I like to be on the board if that's important for me from their standpoint. Also, there's hardcore board of directors of public companies. There's also advisory boards. So, as I invest in companies and take board seats and things, I'm involved now in about north of 10 public companies in some significant fashion, meaning I own equity, shares, board position, advisory seats, whatever. I mean, for example, one of my companies I got involved with five years ago was a little company called CELSIUS and it's an energy drink that... I don't know. Have you ever heard of CELSIUS [crosstalk 00:06:14]? Stephaine: Yes, I've... Yes, I have. Kevin: Okay. So, I got involved at a start-up, CELSIUS. The stock was 22 cents a share and again, I got a nice package when I got involved with these guys. But the stock yesterday hit $19, okay? So, I mean, it's... So, when you think about... When you get in in the beginning and get a big block and that block goes to a big number, that is wealth creation. So, I can talk about national media. I can talk about another one As Seen On TV, another one [inaudible] Travel Biz. I'm involved in various of these pub-cos. Some of them have product, some of them... Most of them have some kind of relation to what I can bring to the table. But I will say this. Almost every single one of them needs the expertise of Ecom and selling and doing digital marketing to create, whether it's customer acquisition or investor acquisition or friendly participant in whatever it might be, the acquisition of names and value to the company. Kevin: So, generally, when I join the board of a public company or the advisory board of a public company, I'll be helping bring some of the things that I've been dealing with and learning about over the last 30-some years in the world of Ecom and internet and digital. So, it... I think my focus now, since I've had great success with helping small pub-cos grow and create value for their shareholders, that's something that's near and dear to me and I love participating in those kind of opportunities. Stephaine: That's awesome. So, how are you able to build buzz or advise your companies to build buzz in the way that you were when you were using traditional media streams like TV? How can you have that same experience online or through word of mouth and conversions online? How are you advising your companies to get that same kind of buzz that you had generated in your past life? Kevin: [inaudible] If we went through... If we take a look at CELSIUS, for example. Let's look at that industry. CELSIUS was a start-up five years ago going against Red Bull and Monster, two of the biggest companies out there that had tremendous shelf space already. So, they started down the path of getting shelf space and they were successful at getting some space here and there, but what we also created was a direct to the consumer side of the business where we started bringing on influencers, big ones like Flo Rida, Khloe Kardashian, etc. And then micro-influencers, fitness influencers. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fitness influencers, micro-influencers, out there on some arrangement that we've made with them to blast all of the information out about CELSIUS, why they love it, why they use it. And these are people... Many of them that approached us because they were users of our product. Kevin: So, now what's happened... So, for example, Flo Rida. He had 26 million followers. He created an amazing buzz to the point where one of his followers and friends was Khloe Kardashian. Well, she said, "Hey, Flo. I love this CELSIUS. Can you get me some cases of it?" So, we're shipping her cases, Flo cases, hundreds of fitness influencers, and now our Amazon business is just crushing it. So, I mean, this is... You can't just sit and wait for it to happen. You got to build the buzz. Kevin: And by the way, there's one thing that I did not say we did. The old days of as seen on TV... I used to spend, some years, as much as $100 million on television. ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, Discovery, Lifetime, all the cable networks, hundreds and hundreds of broadcast stations around the country. But it's very, very expensive and the brand, a product like CELSIUS, in the world of as seen on TV would cost millions, if not tens of millions. So, we chose to go in the newer and much more direct way by utilizing micro-influencers and we've had a great run. The product is now in 165,000 stores, but it's also being supported by the social media influence marketplace. Stephaine: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, really great story. So, someone does not have connections or even maybe a budget big enough to give them even a micro-influencer. What would you suggest to a new DTC startup who's trying to get in front of people? What kind of digital channel are you advising your companies to try out or marketing methods or anything? How would you tell a new person starting out, this is the things that you should look into that are working right now? Kevin: Well, if they don't have the budget, I'd recommend that they go raise some money and get a budget, okay? So... Because if you are in business and you say, "Well, I don't have a budget for the Facebook or Instagram." I mean, this is where you have to test, these outlets, because... I mean, I had a product that somebody brought me two years ago. They had attempted to sell it in stores and on QVC and different places and they got shut down because nobody had ever heard about it. There was no branding. And so, we started running some very inexpensive $5 ads on Facebook and then Instagram and for $5,000 in ads, we brought in $25,000 in credit card orders. Amazing, right? Stephaine: Yeah. That's great. Kevin: Now, these folks that owned the company, we had a partnership now where we're starting to run this and so we were spending 100,000 a week, bringing in 400,000 a week in sales. Making money, paying for itself, unbelievable. So, don't tell me as an entrepreneur, "I don't have the budget." Because for five grand, you can test and you're going to find out. You may be... That... What happens... If you bring in 25,000 in sales off a $5,000 spend, that's self-liquidates, makes money and you're in a big profit position. So, you have to figure out a way to test the digital forces out there. Kevin: The other thing you can do... I know some groups that represent a lot of influencers and there are some people taking aggressive positions, where maybe you could talk them into taking a little equity position in your company in exchange for exposure from groups of influencers, so... Because these big master influencing organizations that have... I know companies, they have 800 influencers that they work with. Well, they pay them, but there's nothing that says they couldn't dribble down some stock or some equity to some of them also, and I think... I'm aware of some companies that are now starting to do equity-based influence marketing and so, I think you're going to see something like that taking storm in the near future. Stephaine: That's really interesting. So, when you're picking companies to either go on their board or help them, what kind of metrics are you looking at for these Ecommerce companies that lets you know whether they're going to be a winner or not? What kind of things are you looking for to pick who you're going to support? Kevin: Well, I like to see that they're spending money on media or influencers or some form of getting distribution. And so, if a company is... They say, "Okay. We've got $100,000 a month budget and $25,000 a week, and we're going to go spend it in an area." I like to see returns on that investment. I like to see at least a one-to-one back, meaning you spend 100,000, you're bringing back 100-plus, at least 100 in sales. But I really prefer to see more like 200 minimum, because now that is now where you're getting to a self-liquidating situation. Kevin: So, the most ideal client or investment for me is when I come into a company that is spending money and actually making money on the spend, but they don't have the money for the media, they don't have the money for the inventory, so they need capital. That is a perfect thing for me because once we plug the capital in, the sales are going to start blossoming and there actually will be self-liquidation so the media, it won't be expensed. It's sort of like an investment to the future profit. So, I think that's... In an ideal scenario, somebody that has a business that has a media spend that's paying for itself. That is, first and foremost, the number one thing that I look for. Stephaine: Well, makes sense. So, for more start-up companies and public companies, do you see them struggling with a lot of the same problems or is it just completely different? And if so, what do you see them hung up on right now, in this environment? Kevin: So, I mean, I think start-ups are different, generally, than public companies. Usually, a public company is working off... The reason they've gone public is because they've figured out a model that generally works and so they want to tell the public, "Hey, look. We've figured this out. We've got the customer acquisition cost figured out and we've got long-term lifetime value of our customers figured out and we just need money to go... And when we go public, we sell stock, we raise money to build the business." Right? Now, that's generally the kind of pub-cos that I like to get involved with. They're kind of over that start-up phase. Kevin: The challenge with start-ups is getting to that point of proof of concept, knowing that you've got something and/or having... And I... Being an old DR guy, back to the old days of selling Ginsu knives and Food Savers and Tony Little Gazelles and Jack LaLanne juicers, I'm an old school guy that likes to see customer acquisition models that work. So, I highly recommend... If a start-up is trying to raise capital, if they can show me an economic model for customer acquisition, I'm in. I mean, it's then a much easier deal because I can see the money is going in and it's going to build the business. I don't like to sink money in that's going to be used for salaries and start-up costs and software and all these things. I like to see money that gets invested into marketing programs that focus on increasing sales and getting new customers. Kevin: So, if a start-up... I mean, if you look at a lot of these modern day start-ups, the Caspers, the Romans, the... I mean, even... There's one. What's the one called? Oh. I'll think of it in just a second, but it's BarkBox, okay? Where people get a box for their dog every month, right? Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: Well, what they were doing was using customer videos. People would open the box every month with their dog and show all the excitement and the fun they were having, and these customer videos were being sent out to millions of people, acquiring new customers. So, they've built a $250 million business with their customers sending out things on Instagram because they were excited about the product. So, they had... They had proof of concept, they had a business model that worked and a customer acquisition model that worked. Stephaine: Very cool. So, what are some... I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of different models of customer acquisition. What are some of the most creative ones or timeless ones that continue to work? Kevin: Well, I mean, I think... Let's start with the one I just mentioned because when... This is... BarkBox is a company that, they didn't start on TV like the "as seen on TV." No. That would have cost them millions. They went... They reached out to their customers and so... There's another girl that started a beauty company and she was an intern at Vogue and she went out and started blogging and getting all kinds of information out. She wanted to start her own brand, direct to the consumer, and this is now a billion dollar brand and for some reason, the name of it is escaping me. Kevin: The bottom line is, how did she build a billion dollar company from zero, right? I mean, it was... It's literally amazing. But how she did it was micro-influencers. She recruited 1.7 million micro-influencers and this just took off and built her company into a billion dollar brand. Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: But the bottom line is I had nothing to do with this company. I just watched her and followed her from intern to billion dollar business, and that's exciting for me as an entrepreneur, to see young entrepreneurs doing this. I think the folks that started the businesses Rent The Runway and the clothing companies that, you would get a box every month, those are companies that focused on really tight acquisition costs for their clientele, etc., etc. But I just... I love hearing about these stories, when somebody starts from zero, is an intern at a magazine and a couple years later, running a billion dollar brand. Stephaine: Yep. Yeah. I love that. That's awesome. We will look her up and put it in the show notes. Kevin: Okay. Stephaine: So, one last question before we dive also into your book. What big trend or patterns do you see coming to Ecommerce right now? Any disruptions or things that you see impacting Ecommerce in the next year? Kevin: Well, the big old Amazon is up there, kind of waving its big wand over the whole industry in the product side of the business, okay? And so, I will tell you, what's happening is I'm seeing entrepreneurs start a single product business, get it on Amazon and then somebody comes along, wants to buy them. This is pretty cool because you don't have to have a $100 million business, a $50 million business or even 10 million. You could be doing two, three million dollars a year and someone might be willing to pay you eight or 10 million for that. So, I mean, there is an amazing trend right now. I know people, they're doing roll-ups, as they call them. Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: They're buying companies that... They'll buy them on a multiple of sales or earnings and then, as a big company, they've got an attractive blended situation that allows for their multiples to work for them and then packaging these companies and selling them off. So, I think the difference today versus, let's say, me when I was starting close to 40 years ago, back in the early eighties and I'm running Tony Little and Jack LaLanne. We only thought about just selling a lot of product, building these sales and maybe go public. But we weren't selling these brands. We never thought about, "Oh, let me go sell Tony Little's Gazelle product. Let me go sell the Jack LaLanne Juicer as a company." Right? But it's... Kevin: Now, this is what's happening. People that start a product business realize it is a business and it might be worth... If you got a business that's doing 30 million in sales, it could be worth two or three times sales. It might be worth $60 or $90 million. I mean, these are things that people that are entrepreneurs need to explore because the key thing is there are exit strategies for entrepreneurs today, unlike the old days where it was a lot tougher to find somebody to buy an old asset that you had. Stephaine: Yep. I love that. Very inspiring. All right, so you have a new book out, Mentor to Millions. I want to hear a little bit about that. What is the book about? Tell us all the details. Kevin: [crosstalk] Mentor to Millions, it's myself and my co-author, Mark Timm. Now... And actually, it's very interesting. The foreword is buy Tom Ziglar, Zig Ziglar's son, so... Stephaine: Oh, I love Zig Ziglar. Kevin: Oh, yeah. Me too. And Zig was a mentor to me and he was also a mentor to Mark Timm, and the family, after Zig passed away, introduced Mark and I and said, "You guys should be doing business because you're two good guys that my father mentored." And so, make a long story short, this is a book about mentoring. It's a book... I mean, we turned this manuscript in in January, long before there was any real buzz about COVID crisis and the pandemic. But once the pandemic hit, March, April, and our book... It's just coming out now. It actually launches in September, so right now it's only pre-order and I'll tell folks about that. But the bottom line is it's about how to get a mentor, how to find a mentor, how to utilize the mentor in your world, because I have used many mentors in many ways, and what they did for me is they helped me take my business growth exponential. And not just added on business, but geometrically exponential is what happened for me when I got mentored by the right folks. Kevin: So, Mark and I... It's... I'm the mentor in the book and he's the mentee and it's a story of our relationship and the magical transformation that occurs in the process. So, it's a powerful book about mentoring and how and why and where and all of that. But we're pretty excited because Hay House is the publisher, launches next month. We've got a lot of effort going into it and if anybody would be interested in hearing more about it, they can go to kevinmentor.com and there's an explanation of the book and all about the chapters and the follow-through from me mentoring Mark along the way of building his business. So, thanks for asking. I appreciate that, Stephanie. Stephaine: Yep. That's awesome. We will definitely be checking that out. We will link it up and Kevin, thanks so much for joining the show. Kevin: Hey, it was great to be here. Stay safe and healthy. Take care. Stephaine: Thanks, Kevin.

Thought about selling on Amazon? Based on your capital (hint, you don't need any money to start) and the time that’s available to you, there are 5 paths to successfully selling on Amazon that is discussed in today’s episode. Join WTR and podcast guest Carlos Alvarez, an Amazon expert and the owner/founder of Bluebird Marketing Solutions, as we break down these 5 steps for our listeners. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. Carlos Alvarez Website: https://wizardsofamazon.com/ (https://wizardsofamazon.com/) Website 2: https://www.bluebirdmarketingsolutions.com/ (https://www.bluebirdmarketingsolutions.com/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wizardsofamazon/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/wizardsofamazon/) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WizardsofAmazonPodcast/ (https://www.facebook.com/WizardsofAmazonPodcast/) NOTES: [00:55] Kevin: Today we're joined by guest Carlos Alvarez. Our topic today is 5 Ways to Make Money on Amazon. Carlos is an Amazon expert and is the owner and founder of Bluebird Marketing Solutions [01:30] This is something that's going to be applicable for anyone out there that can do this on the side. Let us know in the comments what did you find in our discussion that helped you [01:52] Can you share with our listeners a little bit about where you came from and what inspired you to do what you do today? [03:10] Carlos: I started piling on more jobs to keep up financially with everyone else [05:35] The only thing that's really been validated in my life is selling online. I'm not having to work these insane hours that everyone else is doing. Why don't I just create a lot of different brands and figure out all the different ways that I can sell on Amazon? And here we are today [06:05] Kevin: Now that you have all of this experience behind you, you've developed ways that people can make money on Amazon [07:26] Carlos: There are really 5 paths to successfully selling on Amazon. Based on a combination of the capital you have that you wish to start one of these paths on, and the time you have available after work and other obligations will allow you to pick which one or combination of 2-3 works best for you [08:40] Private label (creating your own brand) [08:43] The riskiest of the brands, but my favorite [09:32] You're creating a brand from scratch [09:58] The one that's going to have the biggest investment to start ($12,000-$20,000 to start) [10:23] Need very little time to do it (2.5 hours per day until you get it rolling then it could be a maintenance of 1 hour-2 hours a day) [11:05] Has the most growth potential (you can exit from it, you can sell it, it's your asset) [15:48] Wholesale (buying from a wholesaler and reselling on Amazon platform) [15:47] You don't need to go to the store, you don't need to scrape websites [16:50] Reselling someone else's products but you have relationships (more consistent, a cleaner model) [18:43] A bare minimum to start with is $1,000 on a credit card [12:20] Arbitrage (retail and online arbitrage) [12:30] Retail arbitrage means going into a store to find products, whereas online arbitrage is using tools online to find products and scrape websites [13:40] Extremely time consuming [15:40] The replenishment is difficult, you're always looking for that next thing/item [18:35] You can start with a few hundred dollars [21:18] Merch [21:22] I don't believe in get rich quick and super easy money like that, but this is pretty darn close [12:45] You can drag and drop your designs on any item [25:03] There's no limit; the limit is the limit of your creativity [25:28] Self-publishing [25:55] A lot of people hire ghost writers [28:23] The main three that people talk about are Arbitrage, Wholesale, and Private label whereas Arbitrage has the easiest barrier of entry to get it and then as you gain...

The show opens with Jeff talking about turning in the manuscript for new/revised edition of Hat Trick. The guys also talk about Captain Marvel. Will reviews Wanted-Bad Boyfriend by TA Moore and IRL: In Real Life by Lucy Lennox and Molly Maddox. Jeff reviews Diversion by Eden Winters. Jason T. Gaffney and Kevin Held join Jeff & Will to discuss their new movie project, the romantic comedy/paranormal themed Out of Body. They recorded the audiobook of the novelization, which was written by Suzanne Brockmann. We also find out about their history-based podcast, The Bright Side with Kevin and Jason. Complete shownotes for episode 180 are at BigGayFictionPodcast.com. Book Reviews Here’s the text of this week’s book reviews: Diversion by Eden Winters, narrated by Darcy Stark. Reviewed by Jeff Eden Winters Diversion series has been recommended to me for some time now and I finally took the leap. This first book was first published in 2012 but just came out in audio in October 2018 with narration from new to me voice artist Darcy Stark, who does a great job with both the suspense and romance. This enemies-to-lovers, workplace romantic suspense story centers on agents for the Southeastern Narcotics Bureau, Richmond “Lucky” Lucklighter and Bo Schollenberger. Lucky’s nearing the end of his forced stint on the job–forced as it was his way out of jail. Bo is new and eager, but is also at the job because of incidents in his past. They end up working together to bring down a ring of drug diversion and insurance fraud that involves a doctor, a drug manufacturer and a drug destruction company. I fell in love with gruff, no nonsense Lucky right away. He’s extremely good at his job, mostly because he used to be on the other side of the law. He exudes frustration and irritation at what he has to do and why and yet there’s a teddy bear in there too because he cares about getting the job done right. The friction that’s stirred up when Lucky’s saddled with mentoring Bo is sublime. Lucky’s looking to ride a desk during his last few weeks at the bureau, but his boss has other ideas. Bo’s very green in terms of what he has to do here–but he is ex-military so he’s no pushover either. He can take what Lucky dishes out and it pisses the senior agent off… and eventually Bo gives back as good as he gets. The friction gets explosive as Lucky battles with himself about the feelings he develops for Bo. The other thing the friction brings is a ton of humor. Lucky and Bo know how to push each other’s buttons–whether it’s blasting Billy Ray Cyrus, forcing healthy eating habits or being messy. It’s a wonderful odd couple pairing that morphs in a beautiful way as it becomes less about antagonizing and more about a sweet nudging of one another to just maybe move things to another level in their relationships. Both men have complicated backstories that make you feel for even more for them. Lucky ended up at the bureau after going to prison for the part he played in a large scale drug operation. He’d been in love with the guy behind that operation and when it all came crashing down Lucky was sure he wanted no part of loving anyone again. The pain Eden created for Lucky is devastating, which makes him all the more loveable when he’s able to come out of his shell. Bo did illegal things to help an ex and ended up taking illegal substances to the point that it’s very difficult for him to be around the drugs in a Pharmacy, which his job requires. There’s also abuse in his past and Lucky’s careful to keep Bo away from triggers as much as he can. The lengths he goes to keep Bo feeling safe are extremely sweet. Eden takes great care in how backstory is presented. Once the men get past their posturing and disdain for each other, they peel back they reveal themselves in a very natural way–as friends, coworkers and eventually lovers do. The good and bad are offered in equal measure and it’s perfect relationship development. The only thing I wanted in this story that I didn’t get was Bo’s point of view. I would’ve loved to know what was rattling around in his head. Not to take away from Lucky though as he was quite the good narrator and this one point doesn’t take away from my love of the book. The Diversion series is up to book seven as of January 2019–with the third book released in audio in February 2019–so I’ve got some catching up to do. I’m looking very forward to that. IRL: In Real Life by Lucy Lennox & Molly Maddox. Reviewed by Will In Real Life combines the classic alpha billionaire character trope with the time-honored scenario of two characters who are combative in real life, but are secretly corresponding with one another and falling in love. Which is the long-winded way of saying it’s a similar set up as the classic movies Shop Around the Corner, You’ve Got Mail, In the Good Old Summertime, and the musical She Loves Me. The way that the characters write to each other has changed and evolved, but the premise remains the same. There’s also hints of enemies to lovers and opposites attract. This book is ripe with tropey goodness. So what’s it all about you might ask? Nice guy geek Conor is in New York to sell his mother’s bio-med technology to a ruthless CEO. The evening before his big presentation he decides to live a little and begins sexting with who he thinks is the sexy hotel bartender. It’s not. The text exchange he ends up having with a stranger, who he calls Trace, is amazing, and through several flirtatious and super-hot online conversations, they begin a fling. At the meeting the next morning, Wells Grange recognizes Conor thanks to the Dalek tie he is wearing. Conor is the hot and horny guy he sexted with the night before. His first inclination is to use this information as leverage in their business negotiations. But Wells quickly begins to fall for Conor, both the sexy online version and the awkward real-life version. As they work through the contracts for the sale, Wells continues his deception. They spend several days together and get to know one another, Conor unaware that Wells and Trace are the same person. We follow our heroes, almost in real time, as they fall in love while working together, going out to dinner, and taking carriage rides in Central Park. Once the business deal is finalized, Wells and Conor finally give in to their attraction and sleep with each other. Needless to say, it’s amazing and life altering for both of them. But, as is the case in stories like these, Conor finally puts two and two together before Wells can come clean about his sexting alter ego. Conor is humiliated and justifiably furious. He packs his bags and returns to North Carolina, with zero intention of ever speaking to Wells again. And rightly so. I’m going to be super upfront with you guys, there are certain aspects of the billionaire trope that I personally find problematic. I was on board with Wells and Conor for most of the story, but there were moments when I had a hard time dealing with certain aspects of Wells’ alphahole personality. In my view, if the ending of this book was going to be believable, Wells was going to have to move mountains and pull off one of the biggest mea culpas in romance history. It may not have been the biggest, but Lucy Lennox and Molly Maddox crafted a finale that was truly heartfelt and genuinely appropriate for our two heroes. To make amends, Wells makes sure Conor’s sick mom is well taken care of and part of an experimental treatment program (her illness was the reason they needed the money from the business deal). Later, when Conor is unable to attend a Comic convention to unveil an important new development in his gaming business, Wells steps in, and personally gives a rousing presentation on Conor’s behalf. Wells proves he isn’t the billionaire alphahole he seems. Yea for true love and happily-ever-afters! Interview Transcript Jeff: Welcome back to the show, Jason and Kevin. Kevin: Thank you. Jason: Hello. Thank you. Kevin: Nice to be back. How you been? Jeff: Awesome. Jeff: Well, we had you on before, we were talking all about “Analysis Paralysis.” But you guys have a lot more going on besides that movie. You’re actually in pre-production right now on a film called “Out of Body.” Jason: Yeah. Jeff: Tell us what that one’s about. Jason: So “Out of Body” is basically a story where it’s a friends-to-lover rom-com. And basically, Malcolm, who’s Kevin’s character, has his body stolen from him and he kind of ends up as a spirit for a while. And he has to prove that he exists to me, Henry, and then when that finally happens, we do some magic, we fight some demons, we might get the body back, there’s definitely a happily ever after because it’s a rom-com. Kevin: You and your end happily-ever-afters. Jason: Yeah. Jeff: It’s important. Kevin: I know, I know. But I just want to the rom…just one time I want a rom-com to be…it’s mostly romantic and funny but everyone does die. Jason: Or they die hilariously. Kevin: It’s a rom-com drama. Jason: Death by rubber chicken. Jeff: And what was kind of the inspiration behind this movie this time? Jason: I don’t even know how this idea came in my head. But I was sleeping one day and I woke up and I was like, “Oh, that’d be really cool. A movie where someone’s dead but they wanted to be together but then they didn’t get to be together. And then they have to fight to get their body back and come back to life.” And so I wrote a kind of a similar but different kind of script. And we did a table read, and my mom was a part of the table read. And she was like, “I love the story you have here. Can I take it and can I change a lot of it and make it like super romance with the comedy?” And so this particular movie and book and audiobook is definitely heavier on the romance than the comedy, as opposed to “Analysis Paralysis.” But it’s, in my opinion, really, really good because the romance really makes…it’s gripping, it really gets you right in the heartstrings. And she basically saw what I was going for and was able to finesse it and really kind of mold it into what my kind of original vision was and then some. So I’m really psyched about it. It’s got a little bit of everything. Will: Yeah, not too long ago, I talked about the novelization of “Out of Body” here on the show. Jason, your mom, Suzanne Brockmann, of course, wrote that novelization, it was rather amusing. Like, I think in the forward she kind of does like a behind the scenes thing where she kind of tells that story where she says, “Jason, this is great. But do you mind if I take it and make it better?” Kevin: Yeah. Jason: Yeah. And here’s the thing, I am all about that. Like the filmmaking, it’s such a collaborative process and storytelling can be a really collaborative process. And I want to make good movies. And so I was really happy with the script that I had written, but when someone who’s as great of a writer as my mom is comes and says, “I want to have fun with this and let me just see what I can do with it,” I’m like, “Hell yeah. Take it. Have at it.” Yeah. Kevin: And the end result is really a script, a novel, and a script that really looks like if brilliant improviser and plot maker and gay comedy guy let his script be taken over by a bestselling romance novelist, what would happen, it would be this. You know. And so it’s really got great, great aspects of all of those elements. Will: Yeah, I really enjoyed the book and the audiobook as well. And I think it’s a really unique opportunity for people who are interested in “Out of Body,” the movie, to check out the audiobook and sort of, it’s essentially like a preview of what they’re going to be getting when the film comes out to the public. Can you give us a little bit of an idea about what it was like to kind of get into the material early before you even like were thinking about shooting by recording the audiobook? Kevin: I can tell you for my part, like, since I’m not one of the writers on this, which is, you know, traditional for me because I’m not usually the writer on a project that I’m acting in. But it’s completely unprecedented to have a novel that you get to perform about the thing before you even film the script. You know, so we get…like as an actor, it’s a freaking dream because I have…so you know how actors have to create subtext and everything, I just have to go to the book, you know, it’s like, “Don’t worry. I don’t have to make it.” It’s already been written down for me. So if I’m wondering, like, what’s happening for Malcolm now, what’s going on there? What’s the deep, deep part of it? It’s already written out for me now. So I would say, so the book is available. It’s on, it’s called “Out of Body.” It’s on Audible.com. And I would say, don’t deprive yourself of the opportunity to say the book was better. Jason: Yeah. And, you know, it was really cool to do the audiobook in general because it was our first audiobook for both of us as narrators. And when we were talking about doing it, we were talking with my mom about it and I was interested in the idea of recording it in a way where it was more like a radio show where we are our characters’ dialogue voices all the time, even if it’s in the other person’s point of view. Whoever’s point of view reads the descriptive stuff in the chapters. But if Malcolm’s speaking, even though I’m the narrator of that chapter, he still says his line, and he still says the lines of the other characters that he had been assigned and vice versa for me. And that was really kind of fun to do because, you know, how often do you get to do kind of a radio show acting gig? And it was also really fun for me as a director to get to do this with Kevin in advance, because, like, he now really knows the story and I know he knows the story. So I know that when he comes to set, that’s going to be really easy. And I got into the head of the other characters as well reading them, and that’ll help me be able to hold my other actors hands and kind of with them through their parts, and still allow them to bring what they want to bring to the role and have it blossom into how great it can be. Kevin: Yeah, and that’s like all separate and apart from the experience of actually recording the audiobook, which you might think was done him some and then me some on consecutive days or anything, but it was actually live together. So we actually recorded in a space that had two recording booths in it. We could both hear each other so that when I am narrating a section and it’s his line, I can hear him do it. And then I jump back in. So it was live editing, like, to take out any breaths or anything, or mess-ups or anything, so, but we got to…you know, it was amazing because I had him in my head the whole time doing it, too. So that was wonderful. It’s a great experience. Jeff: That’s amazing, especially how it connected to your even now pre-production process that you’re involved in because you’re getting ready to shoot in about a month from when we’re recording. In pre-production, give everybody kind of an idea of what that means. What’s going on as you get ready for your 12 days of shooting? Jason: So basically, what I just did was go through each of the scenes and break them up on a piece of paper so that now I have the page count number, like how many pages each scene is. Kevin: These are them. Jason: Oh, yeah. Little strip paper… Kevin: Each one of these is a scene. Jason: And basically, the page count, when it starts, who is in the scene, all that stuff. Because I need to…you know I don’t have every actor every day. I’m going to have Kevin every day because he’s one of the leads. But there’s other parts in it where they’re only going to film for one day…anywhere from one to three days. And so you have to plan their scenes on the same day. And this time, we’re going to actually be filming in two different locations because our neighbors next door sold their house to flippers and they’re doing construction and it’s been kind of never-ending. So we can’t film when there’s kind of heavy construction going on in this house. So we’re going to do a lot of stuff at my father in law’s house and then will come get the rest of it after they’re done here. And so I’ve been doing that with my dad and breaking it into those days while simultaneously working with my cinematographer Nacia to map out which shots are needed for each scene and what angles are we doing. So I put little maps on the other side of the table here. Basically, me drawing out the room layout and doing little circles with an M for Malcolm and an H or Henry, and the arrows pointing they go here and then they go here… Kevin: Oh my god. And this isn’t even talking about how to deal with SAG paperwork or any of the art direction that he’s doing, or any of the clearances that he’s getting for this or that kind of thing. Jason: We’ve got a, we’re going to have a… Kevin: He’s a bit of a doer. Jason: We got Andrew Christian giving us underwear… Kevin: Oh, yeah, we have Andrew Christian underwear over here. Jason: And I’m working with some other companies too. So Outfit is a gay like sports good wear, they’ve given me a patent to us for the movie. Kevin: He’s been stenciling t-shirts and… Jason: Hand design t-shirts specific to the characters. I’m going to be making him a specific shirt three times because he wears the same outfit the whole movie and so if anything spills on it, it’s got to be good and not spilled upon because he magically can’t get stains. And so it’s intense, there’s a lot going on. Like Pinterest is my best friend. I’ve been learning all about how to make DIY Halloween decorations. Because again, when you’re low budget, you can’t spend, you know, $3,000 on set design. You can spend like $200, and so you have to get a little crafty. You have to start thinking like, “Okay, I’ve got five pages of construction paper and a pair of scissors and some tape, how going to make this look like I spent a lot of money on it?” Kevin: He’s like MacGyver. So that’s his experience with pre-production, mine’s a little bit different because I’m not all the hyphenates. So I’m busy making no changes at all to my daily routine. Jeff: You do have a script to learn. Kevin: Sure, when I get it. Jason: It’s in the mail. Kevin: We’re at your house. Jeff: Oh my goodness. Jason: The creating part, like creating the artwork, it actually makes me feel calm. The paperwork stresses me out. And so Matt, thankfully, jumps on that grenade and deals with SAG-AFTRA and making sure that all the paperwork’s there and all the money is in the right place and all that stuff. So thank you, Matt. Jeff: Now, we should say Matt is your husband, so he’s in the production family. Jason: Yes. Kevin: Yeah. Will: So now that our listeners know how completely awesome and funny this project is going to be, can you give us a little bit of info about the Indiegogo campaign? Jason: We have an Indiegogo campaign, basically we crowd-funded “Out of Body” on Kickstarter first, a successful crowdfunding campaign last year. and Indiegogo came to us and said, “We’d like to do an in-demand campaign for you.” So we have an open-ended campaign on Indiegogo right now, where you can help sponsor the film help and get some fabulous rewards, such as DVDs of “Out of Body” when it finally is all finished, you can get DVDs of “Analysis Paralysis,” our last feature film. Kevin: I’m going to get these down from the thingy here. Jason: So you can show people. Kevin: You can actually, because now we’re in the second feature film that stars the two of us. Like we got other projects that I have to do with like if you’re your fans of “Analysis Paralysis,” or perhaps the audiobook of “Out of Body,” you can get these copies, you can get copies of all that stuff. And so as we are on the way to becoming things of all media. Jason: Yeah, exactly. And yeah, so if you go to indiegogo.com and you go, indiegogo.com/projects/out-of-body-a-feature-length-lgbtq-rom-com-movie/, it’s a very long title. Kevin: Really, why don’t you go to indiegogo.com and search “Out of Body.” Yes. Jeff: Or just come to our show notes, it’ll be much easier. Will: Yes, do that. Kevin: Exactly. Go to “Big Gay Podcast” website and it’s going to be in the show notes. Jason: Another place you can find out information about “Out of Body” in the future and any sort of campaigns we’re having, etc., is if you go to tinyletter.com/mypethippo and join our newsletter, you’ll be able to find out things about “Analysis Paralysis” or “Out of Body,” or our podcast, “The Bright Side with Kevin and Jason,” all sorts of fun stuff. And yeah, so and basically indie film, it’s low budget. So every dollar really does make a difference. Like if we get enough money to buy a better meal for the cast and crew, everybody’s spirits raised, it gets raised up a little higher, you know, or we can afford an extra day of filming, or we can afford…it really does matter. So thank you to everyone who has supported us so far. And thank you to everyone who comes and supports us after this. Kevin: Yes, indeed. Jeff: Now, Kevin had this wonderful term about you guys, you know, essentially taking over media. You mentioned the podcast, “The Bright Side with Kevin and Jason.” It’s a comedy podcast about history. How did this idea spark? Because this just adds to you, I imagine, having to research these historical things. Kevin: Now, Jason does all the research for this, you know, and that’s huge. Like, because basically, he doesn’t have enough to do. But the impetus for the podcast, which is “The Bright Side with Kevin and Jason” is, you know, there’s so much bad news all the time. And my mom taught me how to look on the bright side of stuff, you know. If I got one thing from my mom, it was to…I would always complain about this or that and she would constantly remind me of there’s something good here, you know, and you have to find that. And so that’s really the gem of this, it’s really the heart of that show is that, especially when you look around at the news right now, there’s so much bad stuff that is going on. But you have to also recognize that bad stuff creates the opposite reaction. And so who is making the good out of that? You know, who is looking at that and reacting to it in a way of love, or in a way of furthering acceptance, or you know, who’s looking at the transgender ban, for example, that was finally instituted by the Supreme Court? And who is saying, you know, I want to reach out and tell my trans brothers and sisters that you are people and you are valuable and your service is useful and we love you? You know, so who’s doing that? You know, and so that’s what the podcast really kind of focuses on. We do wallow in some tragedy on the podcast because every week we take a historical episode of some varying degree of tragic-ness and talk about it. But then we also, every episode, find out what good that led to. Jason: And it kind of came about a long time ago after “Analysis Paralysis,” like Kevin mentioned in the last episode, we talked a little bit about how we met on a student film and basically got along really well, really quickly, and then we started hanging out together with our husbands and going on double dates, and so it kind of formed this bond. And after “Analysis Paralysis,” which was so much fun, it was 10 days of basically seeing Kevin and laughing and having a good time, I was like, “I don’t want to wait a year-and-a-half for the next project. I want to do something now with you.” Kevin: The experience of just chatting about a topic on a set or something was so much fun and we thought, “We should bottle this.” And then we thought, “You can.” There’s a method for this that’s called a podcast, and that’s what started. Yeah, you know, so now I get to come over here every damn week. Jason: Yeah, come to the Valley. You’re welcome. Kevin: Yeah, when I moved to Westwood I was hoping that my second bedroom would be a good place to record. But it’s not, it’s not good. Too much noise there. The valley’s a lot of things, but it is quiet. Jason: It is quiet. Unless they’re doing construction next door. Kevin: Right. Jeff: You could just turn that second bedroom into a soundproof area. Kevin: No, actually, currently, we didn’t have any…we moved from a house that had a lot of storage into a house that had another bedroom, but no storage. So that second bedroom has just become basically the id of our house. You know, everything’s like ahhhhh, you know? Jason: It’s like in “Harry Potter,” what’s that closet? Kevin: The room of requirements? Jason: Yes. Kevin: It’s the room of please don’t go in there actually. Will: Now, guys, I’m curious. How do you choose which historical events to feature and how much research goes into each episode? Kevin: That’s 100% question for Jason because though I feel that the podcast is a 50/50 pursuit, because Jason does all of the research for the topics that we do, and I don’t ever know what we’re going to talk about until I get here, but then I do all the web mastering and editing and I put up the shownotes and I do all of that stuff. So I feel like we end up spending around the same amount of time on things. Jason: Yeah. So basically, generally about a day of work I kind of surf the web, I find a topic that…like I kind of search, you know, the rabbit hole as to like what kind of weird historical thing is this? And I’ll like Google really weird stuff so my search history… Kevin: Yeah, they’re coming for you. Jason: …completely messed at this point. But like, you know, I’ll look up like “wild strikes historical funny” to see what I get from it. But honestly, there’s been a ton of them I’ve gotten through recommendations of friends and family and listeners of the podcast, and we really encourage listeners to throw ideas at us because there’s some really obscure events in history that I don’t know about that I would love to know about and I could easily find it if I knew to search for it. And so if anyone out there listening has weird events, definitely tweet me or email me. Kevin: You can find him @jasontgaffney on Twitter, and tell him and I don’t want to know about it. Jeff: That’s right. Kevin has to stay in the dark. Kevin: Right. Jason: So what I look for also, I try to look for topics where there’s a lot of tragedy, but you can still make fun of it. Like, if it’s a natural disaster, I try to find one where people made bad decisions with the natural disaster, not that it’s just, like, everyone got screwed and they tried to do the right thing, but they still got screwed because you can’t really make fun of those people. That’s just sad. Kevin: And mean. And it’s really not. I mean, I know we’re talking about a lot of tragedy, and that’s kind of what we focus on. But it’s not a cruel show. It’s not a Schadenfreude, really, because the ultimate goal is to find out what the hopeful aspect of it, who turned that situation into something good, you know. Jason: And you’d be surprised, like, we generally can find it. I don’t think we found one yet where there’s really nothing, no bright side to it. Kevin: No. Because the arc of history is long and you never know what the end result of a pebble, you know, when a pebble goes into a puddle, you don’t know how farther in they’re going to go, you know, and so, like, we talked about that event but that could lead to something incredible later, you know. Jeff: For you, Kevin, since you come in cold to these, what’s been of the episode so far that you’re like, “What? What did I just hear?” Kevin: Oh, my God. Well, the “Empire” panic, for example, has been insane. Like, I have a feeling when I post the episodes, I have a feeling like I hope…My mom and I listened to the Christmas episode over Christmas. And at the end of it, she said, “That was funny and I learned some stuff.” So that’s what…it was like I was, “Oh, good. There we go.” That’s what I would like people to have from it. Is like, “Oh, I enjoyed that, you know, conversation. That was fun and stuff.” But also, “God, who knew?” Yeah, that’s amazing. Because he’s pretty good at this, every episode there’s gonna be some point where I’m like, “Are you kidding? Human beings did this,” you know? It’s always, “Yes, they did,” good Lord. Jason: It’s also it’s gotten way more fun to do the research than it initially was because I was really nervous the first couple episodes to like, “Oh, my God, is this going to be funny? How can I make this funny?” And I was trying a little like…we actually have a couple of episodes that just never aired because I was trying too hard as opposed to just seeing that, yeah, that was absurd. I don’t need to say anything except what they said. And now that I’ve kind of mastered that to a degree. I mean, I’ll keep getting better as time goes on. But now I can really see like as I’m reading stuff, I’ll be like, “Oh, I know that Kevin’s gonna hear that and go, ‘Stop it.'” And then he’s gonna call it out, call the absurdity of it. I don’t need to do anything except, say, like, you know, “And then she picked up the knife and stabbed her own foot.” And it’s like, “Why?” Kevin: Spoiler alert. Jeff: Did you have a knack for history before this, Jason? Or did this just kind of happen? Jason: So I’ve always loved history. I always love the idea of history. When I was actually a little kid, I used to play with blocks a lot. And it’s probably why I like being a producer and a storyteller. I used to have like this giant castle and a giant village and an army of bad guys and I acted out this soap opera for years with the royal family and all that. And I was fascinated with the Romanovs and stuff so I kind of like did a little spoof on them. And so I kind of created like my own worlds, and history and stuff. And so when I can find sites that tell historical stories like a story, which is what history should be told as because it essentially is our story, it’s really fun. It’s really exciting to read it and be like, “No, oh, my goodness, that person’s totally the villain.” And then you read a couple more paragraphs, and you’re like, “Oh, no, they’re misguided. They have a heart of gold. They didn’t know.” And then five pages later, you’re like, “No, they’re just a dick.” And it’s exciting, it’s riveting, it gets you on the of the edge of your seat constantly with how people just constantly mess up. And then occasionally, you have a hero who’s just like, actually a good person, you’re like, “What’s the catch?” So, yeah, you know, history is really fun, especially when it’s told with a fun storytelling lens because… Kevin: And I think that’s like the thrust of the podcast is also it’s about the topic, sure, but it’s also just about how Jason and I interact with each other. And we just have such a fun friendship. And I don’t mean that it’s fun from the inside. I hope it is, but it’s fun from the inside of it. So I have such a good time with him that whatever we’re talking about is going to be fun for me. Jeff: That’s awesome. So besides “Out of Body” and more podcast episodes, what else is coming up for you both? Kevin: I may never work again. Who knows? Jason: We’ve actually started writing the sequel to “Analysis Paralysis” with the hope of filming it at the end of the year, with the additional hope of trying to film it in Palm Springs. Kevin: First time hearing of that. Really? Jeff: Breaking news. Kevin: I love Palm Springs. Jason: We’re gonna do what we can to make it work. And it would require assistance from the Palm Springs community, sure, help house us and give us locations and stuff. Kevin: It’s gonna be all on the gondola. Only there. Jason: What gondola? Kevin: The gondola up to the mountain thing. Jason: Oh, yeah, that gondola. Kevin: The whole thing is set on the gondola. Jason: I was thinking like the gondola with a little stick… Kevin: Yeah, the canals in Palm Springs. Jason: But another thing that I’m actually working on is my dad and I wrote a couple of novellas that you can get on Amazon. Kevin: What are they called? Jeff: “California Comedy Series.” Jason: The “California Comedy Series.” Yes. And I wrote a version of “Fixing Frank” with the hopes to get that kind of ball rolling. And it’s definitely a film that requires a bigger budget than what we have right now. But I’m starting to get those wheels in motion for you know, movie four, five, six sometime in the near future. And so yeah, that’s kind of what I’m working on. Kevin: We keep cranking them out. If people will keep putting them on screens and things, we’ll keep making them. Jason: The goal is to make people laugh. I feel like that’s why I was put on Earth and I feel like that’s why you were put on Earth. Kevin: Well, yeah. I know am laughing whenever I see you so that’s probably true. Jeff: Do we get new “California Comedy” anytime soon? Jason: I have been talking about that with my dad, we actually have a couple that are in the works, it’s just trying to figure out when we have a good time to sit down and edit it. I think after “Out of Body,” I’ll be able to take a look back at one of them that we wrote a while ago and kind of tweak it because there were a couple of things that just never felt right. And so it’s just figuring out how to fix those kinds of plot holes. And then hopefully that’ll be on the market before the end of 2019. Jeff: Excellent. And Kevin, what about you, anything you want to throw out for people to keep an eye out for? Kevin: Super excited about the podcast, actually. You know, going into production on “Out of Body” is really, really exciting. I don’t have a lot of acting projects coming up after that, that I can think of right now. But that’s kind of the nature of acting projects. Jeff: Sure. Kevin: You know, and so the podcast is where you can find us weekly up until the end…and actually, we make announcements there about projects that do come up for us, you know, in the interim. So, you know, to be a loyal listener to the show would be the best way to find out about what’s new with us. You know. Jason: Oh, and I almost forgot. We’re going to try in some way whether it’s self-published or with some other company helping us, the goal is to turn the “California Comedy Series” into audiobooks as well, similar to “Out of Body.” Jeff: Oh, fantastic. So both of you voicing? Jason: Yeah, for two of them. One of them, the plan is to have my good friend David Singletary come in as the role of Mike since that role is African American. And my friend David Singletary is African American and I’m all about… Kevin: Kevin Held is very much not. Jason: I’m all about own voices reading parts and stuff like that. And he’s great. You’re going to love him. Kevin: He is great. I’m a little jealous, but I’m okay. Jeff: Well, guys, thank you so much for telling us about “Out of Body” and the podcast. We wish you much success with those. Jason: Well, thank you. Kevin: Well, much success with your own podcast, gentlemen. Jason: Thank you, yes.  

One of the mistakes people often make when starting their own e-commerce business is they try to make the business an extension of themselves. They don't build out enough within that extension and therefore don't build a real business. A real business that is going to be attractive to buyers. Some also make attempts to reject Amazon, feeling they can achieve success with Shopify, Walmart, and other E-commerce channels. Today we are talking with a true Amazon veteran and success story, getting to the truth behind building real e-commerce success, working to build a real and viable business, and why it pays to go to China. Kevin King is an e-commerce entrepreneur's advisement expert. He teaches to and works with seven to eight-figure companies and speaks at e-conferences all over the world – attending nearly twenty-six events in at least 10 countries in 2018 alone! He runs his own e-commerce site selling his Amazon products, and has developed and guided hundreds of products from inception to market. He's been in the Amazon Private Label space since 2015. He's here talking about the Amazon opportunity bubble and how he doesn't see it popping anytime soon. Episode Highlights: The skyrocket of the Amazon business model and how that model has changed. Kevin shares his tips for doing business right from the start and increasing chances for success. The different ways to approach the Amazon model. Kevin gives us a definition of Amazon Private Label. The number one crucial skill you need to succeed on Amazon. What you really need financially to start a real business. How to find out where the demand is on Amazon. Why being on top of your inventory is vital to your success and how often you should turn your inventory each year. What it really means to build a brand and if brands mean anything to potential buyers. Why Amazon is a great place to launch a product but not to build a brand. Why product choice is the backbone to business success. What to look at when choosing a product to sell. Selling cheap easy turnover items versus high ticket items. The most important thing to do to improve traffic on Amazon. Unless it garners at least 20% of your revenue, multichannel sales don't increase your chances of finding a buyer. The international factor and branching out to other marketplaces. Kevin's golden rules for moving a product. How many products are the right amount to have in your portfolio? Where the money is really made in the Amazon space and the importance of how and where to source products. Transcription: Mark: Okay Joe I want to start this off with a question for you. Back when you owned Puristat how long did it take before you realized this is going to be able to grow into something and how long did it take before you turn it into kind of like a real business that could be scaled? Joe: That's a great question. I wish I had a really good prepared answer for it. Mark: I got you completely unguarded with that. Joe: Yeah. I'm one of those guys that built a business without knowing I could actually sell it. And as you and a lot of folks that know my history I started out on doing radio and direct response and did a TV infomercial and then eventually took it 100% online. But early on in my entrepreneurial career, I did have a sit down with a good friend … a family friend that slapped me upside the head in terms of accounting and I did have my ducks in a row in that sense. And I always built what was a real business so that if I got hit by a bus one of my head people could take over, my wife could take over things of that nature. But it never actually occurred to me until I was emotionally tired that I could sell the business. And then I reached out to a guy named Mark Daoust back in … gosh, 2010 right? Mark: Way too long ago. I think one of the things … one of the problems I see and I've seen over the past 11 years with entrepreneurs is we make the business an extension of ourselves; an extension of our personality. And because of that sometimes we don't really build the business in a way that can be sold and we don't have intentionality of building something outside of ourselves. And I know you talked to Kevin King who had a lot of suggestions and tips as to how somebody should be building their business for that expansion and again for lack of a better term a real business. Joe: Kevin used the term real business probably 10 times in the first five minutes and he is such an honest straightforward tell it like it is kind of guy that he says you got to build a real business. Grow up build a real business. Don't be a … build a real business. And he just says it in a way that you just have to go okay he's right, I need to stop messing around, grow up, and build a real business that is going to be really attractive to buyers when I'm ready to sell. Kevin is one of the few guys that is out there teaching, helping, coaching entrepreneurs build ecommerce businesses with a focus on an eventual exit. He's got a four year plan in terms of … you know step 1, 2, 3, 4 in terms of year 1, 2, 3, 4 with an exit in mind not that you're going to exit but that you're in a position to exit in 48 months. Part of that is giving it enough time to mature and grow and gain value. And he's a believer as many folks in his position are that a majority of the revenue that an entrepreneur gets to put in their bank account comes upon an exit and that's a simple matter of math. We hear Scott Deetz talk about that a lot and he's an advocate of that as well. But I tell you there are … the gurus are a dime a dozen and Kevin has been around a long time. He walks the walk, he talks the talk, he's a guest podcast on lots of podcasts, AM PM Podcast co-host, and helps out a lot with Helium10. And now he is so sought after. He's being asked to go and present and speak around the country … around the world and he's being paid to do it. You and I have to … we have to say can we sponsor and by the way can we speak and we pay them to let us up on stage these people are actually paying Kevin to get up there and talk because the wisdom that he shares is so valuable. Mark: That's fantastic. I want to get to this, hear what he has to say. I was at a conference a few months ago and there's a speaker who said … and I'm going to keep this PG even though he wasn't PG but he said if you want to have a real business you have to do real business stuff. And it's one of those truisms that is just kind of basic but good to hear once in a while. So I'm interested to hear what Kevin has to say about it and for those listening, I think it would be a good idea to listen to some of the specifics that he gives here and just measure up against what you're doing right now. Are you doing these things? Have you been doing real business stuff within your business to actually build something that's real and external? Joe: Perfect let's go to it. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley with the Quiet Light Podcast and I have an amazing guest today. His name is Kevin King. Kevin, how are you today? Kevin: I'm doing good Joe. How are you doing? Joe: I'm good man. You're kind of a legend in this industry now. You're traveling all over the world speaking at events, getting paid to speak at events, helping 6, 7, 8 figure entrepreneurs build their Amazon businesses. That's kind of the intro, why don't you tell us who you are and what you're all about so the people will understand it directly from you? Kevin: Sure no problem. Yeah, I've been doing ecommerce since the 1990. So I go back about 20, 25 years or so since the days before there was even a Google. I've been selling ecommerce to my own websites. I started selling on Amazon on around the year 2000 or so and then I've been doing the FBA model which most people are familiar with now since 2015. I originally started out doing wholesaling, some arbitrage, and some other stuff on Amazon and still do that through another business. And then I'm also involved in a couple of different training things. So I teach advanced level sellers, 6, 7, 8 figure sellers in the Illuminati Mastermind which I'm mostly training. Like a 3 hour training [inaudible 00:05:54.2] these tactics and techniques for sellers and then we do a live event once a year. It's a pretty high level live event and then also I have a course called the Freedom Ticket which trains new people on how to sell on Amazon as well as how to have a 7 figure Amazon Business that I do myself and then I'm partners with a couple of other people and a couple of other Amazon businesses. And then I … like you said I speak at a lot of events all over the world for Amazon sellers and ecommerce. Joe: And why don't you tell us how many you went to so far this year? This is being recorded in late 2018. Kevin: Yeah in 2018 I'm at 26 events so far this year. Joe: And say how many different countries. Kevin: Oh man I haven't added that up. The number of countries would probably be at least 10. Joe: At least 10. Kevin: So I would actually … it's a … China, Hong Kong, let's see … several United States including Hawaii and it's not another country but Hawaii and then several and Germany, so Germany, London, Greece, Romania, Ukraine, man all over … all over the place. Joe: That's incredible. And you're attending and speaking at these as well right? Kevin: That's correct yeah. Some of them I'm just an attendee but over half of them, I'm actually speaking at. Joe: All right well let's help the people that are listening, those that have Amazon businesses and those that don't, those that want to get started. A lot of folks like you and me started off with our own websites and Google AdWords and content development and eventually morphed over to Amazon. I didn't, I sold my business before you were selling in Amazon but before I realized that Amazon was a tool I could sell on. I sold in 2010. I look back and think man I wish I knew a Kevin King back then. Kevin: Yeah the Amazon space is one of those that … it had a hot wave around 2012 or so. The guys over at Amazing.com kind of set this off where they turned it into a business model and started instead of getting rich in real estate let's get rich in selling on Amazon. And so they started doing courses and it took off and since then there's probably about 4 or 500 other people that came out with different courses. And to be frank, most of them suck. The guys at Amazing do a pretty good job and there's three or four others. I'd like to think that mine is one of the better ones but most of them are people that either isn't selling on Amazon or tried it and failed or they're just not very good. So you have to be very very careful out there. It's become a big industry that is … a lot of people realize they can make more money selling the show than they can selling the gold or whatever or that saying is you know. It's teaching people how to do it rather than doing it. But the opportunity … so as a result of that a lot of people say hey is this selling on Amazon saturated? Is it too late? Did I miss the boat? I say absolutely not. I think it's better than ever right now. The difference is it's no longer an easy game where when 2, 3, 4 years ago it's pretty easy to just go to Alibaba.com find a product slap your name and logo on it and sell it on Amazon and those days are pretty much gone. It's a real business now. So if you approach this as a real business and not a get rich quick scheme and not listen to a lot of these course guys that are saying you can quit your job tomorrow and sit on the beach drink margaritas and just check the app and watch the sales come in. But treat it like a real business and keep your job. Don't quit your job maybe for a year as long as you got money … unless you have a lot of money in the bank saved up that you can live on. But if you treat this like a real business that you can reinvest it there's no better business out there that has a better return right now. And Joe you know this, you guys broker a bunch of businesses so you see these numbers and you see the guys that do it wrong and the guys that do it right. And like I always say if you take $5,000 and you put that into the best mutual fund on Wall Street in about 3 years you'll have about 7500 bucks or so roughly on average. If you put $5,000 on an Amazon business and do it right that $5,000 in 3 years can pretty easily turn into about $52,000. So the ROI is tremendous but you got to do it right, you got to treat it like a business. And I always tell people if you're going to start in this business the thing that you need to do is … I say it's like a 4 year plan. Year one you're basically learning and you're earning. Year two … whether that's you taking a course from someone that you paid, you're watching some YouTube videos or whatever you may be doing, you have to be careful though if you're watching YouTube videos because some of that stuff is out of date or incorrect. So you're learning and you're earning. In the 2nd year, you're optimizing. So maybe you're adding additional products and additional variations. The 3rd year you're preparing to sell. You're getting all your ducks in a row. You're getting all your financials correct. Hopefully, you've been doing this all along but you're really optimizing your financials and in the 4th year you sell. The best opportunity in this business is not running the business; it's in selling the business. Because when you sell an Amazon business typically that's where you're going to take in over half of your profits. Sometimes as much as 70 or 80% of what you're going to walk away with from running the business. People would say why the heck would you sell a business if this is such a great opportunity Kevin why the heck would you even sell it? And I say well it's leverage. I mean there's no better … that's how you get ahead. You know in real estate that's how you get ahead and wherever it is leveraged. Even if you're making $200,000 a year off this business if you can walk away in one year with a million bucks let's say in your pocket, you can just turn around, pay off some bills, take a nice vacation, buy the wife a new car, whatever you want to do and then start over again. And I know a lot of people that are on their 3rd Amazon based business right now. I know a guy that sold his first one in a year for half a million. He sold his 2nd one for 7.5 million. Now it's the third one. I know another couple, a really nice husband and wife team that just recently sold one for 4 million, got a multiple of almost 4.2 and their next goal is 2021 to sell it for 10 … the next one for 10 million. So it's a great way to do that. Joe: [inaudible 00:11:38.6] them the skill set. You know the folks that I talk to they build these and then we sell them for them. Once they've got that skill set they can go back to the well. They can go back to the Amazon well and build another brand because they understand it. But let's throw some chips out there. You said you could turn 5,000 into 50 in 4 years. We've seen 5,000 turned into several million in 4 years. How much would you recommend to the newbies that are out there and what I want to do here is give some tips from you the expert. I get so much misinformation out there. I want you to talk about a few tips that newer folks should do so that it increases their success level. And then to those folks that are out there doing it now some of the things that you may be able to call from your travels and your experience that are new that are completely different than they were maybe even just 12 months ago. But how much money do you think somebody at a minimum should start off with and should they be focused on branding, wholesaling, arbitrage … what is your opinion on what they should do to get started and increase their chances of success so that they can have that big exit down the road? Kevin: Well I can say this 11 different ways to skin the Amazon cat. You can make money off affiliate market by doing wholesale, by doing retail, arbitrage, online arbitrage and there are several other ways. The best way, in my opinion, is private label. It has the most opportunity and the best margin. So if you're looking to maximize your return you should really look at the private label side. Joe: Let's define that if you would please? Kevin: Sure. Joe: Just for the new ones starting off. Kevin: The private label is where you're actually basically creating a brand … attempting to create a brand or you're actually taking products that already exist, maybe modifying them slightly and putting your name on it. It's kind of like if you go to the supermarket and you look at that ketchup, there's Heinz ketchup which everybody knows that do all the advertising and right next to it is the local store brand, Safeway, Kroger, whatever it may be brand of ketchup which often comes off the same factory. And it's often the exact same materials they just has a different name on it usually at a slightly lower price. Joe: Right. Kevin: So that's private label. So the idea behind the private label is to go onto Amazon use a lot of these tools, these 3rd party software tools, find the opportunities, and that could be either based on keywords or it could be based on complaints and customer reviews and you can fix the problem and you can come in and compete. The Amazon business itself is the number one most crucial skill you need to have is mass. This business is all about numbers and so if you're not a numbers person you need someone on your team that is a numbers person. It's not something where you get emotional and hey I built a better mousetrap or I've made a new invention. I mean there are opportunities there if you have a new invention or you have a new idea but there has to be the demand. And the beauty about Amazon and selling on Amazon is it's a huge laboratory. I mean with 550 million or so products on there most of them with a review someone with thousands of reviews. It's a great laboratory. I mean companies 10, 15 years ago used to have to do focused group marketing and all kinds of expensive research just to get this kind of feedback and it's publicly freely available right now to anybody that wants it. So you can go in there and if you know how to mine this data you can find major opportunities. And so you want to look … it's all about math. So back on how much should you start with you know that depends. I recommend you have at least 5 to $10,000. I mean you hear stories of people start with 100 bucks or 500 bucks but usually they may have started with 100 bucks but what they don't tell you is that a week later they borrowed 50,000 from their rich uncle. They have these rags to riches story where they get terms from their supplier, there's something else to it. You can't start with it, I mean you could start arbitrage with a 100 bucks if you're going to grow a real business you need money. You can start a business with a thousand or a hundred … hundred to a thousand but it's going to be a really slow build. So the more you have the faster you can go. So what I always say is if you going to start this business how much do you need? You need 2 ½ times your initial inventory investment. So if your first round of products is going to cost you let's say $4,000 to have made. So you're buying 1,000 units of something. That means you can basically spend about $4 per unit landed cost. Landed cost means the cost to manufacture the item whether that's in the United States or in China plus the cost to ship it and if you're importing it all the taxes and shipping cost that's basically landed in the Amazon warehouse. So you need 2 ½ times that. That means you need about $10,000 to start the business. If you don't have $10,000 you need to find a different type of product to sell. If you only have 5,000 good, do the math and you have to find some things you can buy for about $2,000; your initial inventory. Joe: So if you're buying 1000 pieces at 4,000 bucks what's the other 6,000 for? Kevin: The other 6,000 is because in this business it's a very cash intensive business. So if you're successful you're most likely going to have to be buying your 2nd round of inventory before you sold your 1st and probably before you've even paid for your 1st in full. So you're going to need … the worst thing you can do on Amazon is to run out of stocks. If you run out of stocks on Amazon for more than a few days you're basically starting over. That's the death. Now 90% of people that start selling on Amazon fail or they take a course either they don't launch or they fail because they don't do the math right. They don't plan it properly. They don't pick products that are within their budget that they can maintain, that they can sustain. And in the other … you know in this case of the 4,000 so you might need another 4,000 to place your 2nd order and then the other 2,000 is for advertising cost. You might need some software, some other miscellaneous things. That's the bare minimum. In my opinion, it's better to have a better cushion than that but that would be the bare minimum. And then it's all about math. It's all about looking at keyword demand. It's not trying to invent something new, that's kick starter or that's … you know there are other business models for if you have something that's brand new that you want to do. But the best opportunity is to look at the demand on Amazon. Use these keyword tools. See what people are searching for, what they're buying, what they're complaining about, and go in and either make a slightly different product of that or fix the problem that people are complaining about and then come out with something. And so that that's why I say it's all math. It's all about the financial side which most people are not good at and the forecasting and it's all about the keyword and the demand side. And there are some great tools out there … 3rd party tools that have come a long way in the last 3 years that can really help you with it. But most people that even are paying for these tools … you know they're paying 100 bucks for a tool like Helium 10 for example that's one of the better tools out there. A lot of people don't even know how to use the tools. It's kind of like they have a nice race car with all these gizmos and buttons and all these kinds of things that they can do to really race down the track at 200 miles per hour but they're just putting along at 40 miles an hour. So master these tools and learn these tools and you can do really well. Joe: Okay and that's the 1st year really the mastery of those types of tools and things of that nature. Kevin: Correct. Joe: Got you and we say a lot of the same things. I put myself on mute because I'm struggling because we're doing … one of the things I'm always saying is that and I'm actually doing a presentation next week and its, if you want to increase the value of your business in the year before you sell, don't run out of inventory. You know that it's going to kill maybe certain things in terms of momentum on Amazon. I know that when you run out of inventory it reduces your revenue and your profit and that times your multiple is going to be the loss on your business value. I just said a lot. It probably doesn't make sense to most but just don't run out of inventory. Do what you can; beg, borrow, steal, hillock, line of credit, credit cards, whatever it takes if you've got a good solid business. As far as the brand sell or the private label do you recommend and do you prefer seeing people picking a category, let's say they're going to … okay, I'm going to invent a new … I'm not going to invent, I'm going to build a better mousetrap and it's a swimming pool cover and then all of the additional products evolve around swimming pools or do you think you find that great product there and then you do this search for the next great product and it may not be related at all? Kevin: I think there are two different ways to do that. I mean one is if building a brand is difficult, building a brand it's not just sticking your name and your label on something. A lot of people think that's a brand. They think that if I create a logo and stick my name on my pool cover I, therefore, have a brand and I have a bunch of pool and that's not true. Brand is an identity. It's something that people relate to. It's like … you know think of Apple, people are lining up to get the new iPhone. It's a certain cool you know Apple came out with that thing differently you know that it's almost like a … it's hard to build a brand and I don't think Amazon is the place to build a brand in my opinion. I think Amazon is a great launching … if building a brand is your strategy that's awesome and Amazon can be a great place to launch because the marketplace is already there. The view about Amazon is they already have a huge audience and just all these cool tools that you can use to figure out how to reach them. If you go out and you build your own Shopify site or your own ecommerce store you've got to figure out how they bring the traffic there. You've got to start doing Facebook ads, email list, PR, whatever it may be to bring the traffic there versus on Amazon you don't have to do that it's already coming. You'll only use outside traffic … if you have to use outside traffic to drive sales on Amazon you're doing something wrong. In my opinion, the only time you should use outside traffic to drive sales on Amazon is when you're doing a launch. If you're launching a new product and you need it to kind of influence the algorithm, that makes perfect sense and you should do that. But if you're heavily weighted on driving outside traffic from Facebook and you're sending it to Amazon just to make sales on Amazon then you shouldn't be doing it. You should have sent that to your own store because when you send someone from Facebook to Amazon they're not … they don't become your customer. They're not identifying with your brand, they're identifying with the Amazon brand. They're buying because it's Amazon, they get it in a day or two. They trust Amazon. They know that it's easy to return blah blah blah. In most cases, they don't really care about your brand. So if you're trying to build a brand you need to drive it to your own store. But using Amazon as a launch pad because it has a built in traffic and then you could use the data you get from Amazon you can refine your product get it fixed get that good feedback and then take that data from Amazon even as a 3rd party seller you can create what's called [inaudible 00:21:36.9] and all kinds of stuff on Facebook and then go out and build a brand that would identify more with you. And I think the best opportunity to build brands using Amazon is on consumables … on people … maybe it's dog treats or supplements or something like that where people will come in over and over and over. But if you're selling pool covers … building a brand is difficult so what I tell people is still trying to really build a brand initially that may come and evolve into that is more build … go after an avatar. So rather than just trying to be the guy doing all the pool supplies, to give yourself the best opportunity on Amazon so you're not stuck in a niche. I mean if you go after the pool supplies and you're doing pool covers and pool chemicals and pool everything else you're kind of stuck there. You're like okay what else can I find in a pool category versus if you go after an avatar and you pick a person … let's say it's a runner. I'm going to go after an athlete, people who love to run outdoors, then you can actually go across multiple categories and you can do something like something in electronics category that's a fitness tracker or a band to hold your iPhone on your arm or whatever and you could do socks and you could do water bottles. You can get across over all these different categories and you open yourself up to more opportunity. Or you can just … you know some people they don't care; it's just the shotgun approach. It's like I just find opportunities I don't care it's just cash flow. Typically if you have a brand it depends on the buyer. Some buyers actually really value that and they'll pay a higher multiple for that if you're planning on selling. Others don't care they just want the cash flow. So it depends and so when you're 1st starting you might just … I don't know that you need to think about that because it's going to evolve. Most people their 1st or 2nd product doesn't succeed, it's more of a learn … some people get lucky and it does but you can ask most big sellers that are doing 7, 8, 9 figures a year and they'll say yeah my 1st one it just I don't sell it anymore it didn't work. So I would get too stuck at that in the beginning. I would just keep going and then it's going to come to you. You're going to start seeing the opportunities and you'll be able to drive off. Joe: I got you, great information. It totally makes sense, the avatar and being able to say okay I'll do a running … people that are running. And it could be men, women, it could be kids. Again the products breath and depth is really really broad and deep as opposed to limiting to grilling products or swimming pool products. Kevin: Not to say you can't do that, I mean you can do that but I think the opportunity is better if you go towards an avatar rather than just a niche. Joe: Yup, got it. I love it. Let's talk about for those that are listening to this podcast Kevin obviously they can tell you know what you're talking about. They probably already know your name and have seen your presentations. What things are you doing and are your 7 and 8 figure friends doing that is new and different and must be done to help take things to the next level? What kind of tidbits can you share there? Kevin: Well the number one thing is to me the thing I've learned in this business is it's not about profit; it's about ROI if you're trying to grow a business. When I 1st started I was looking at products that would have nice profit margins. You hear people sometimes on Facebook say I've got 40, 50, 60% profit margins and those cases do exist rarely but I used to say bullshit on most of those people. The average in a private label business is between about 20 and 30% if you're doing things right. Joe: Let's call that seller's discretionary earnings for everybody listening that's … it's you run a net profit and you run a profit loss in Quick Books you get net profit on the bottom then we're going to add back those owner benefits like your salary like your meals and entertainment like your travel and things that nature that are not business related. So your net income plus your add backs equals your seller's discretionary earnings that's what we're talking about. Kevin: Now once you do your add backs that could go a little bit higher. I'm talking about just on the books you know when you when you are factoring it all your cost is about 20 to 30% on private label. On wholesale, it's closer to the 10 to 15% range. Joe: Right. Kevin: And wholesale businesses are a little bit harder to sell because you don't have really a brand. You're just selling other people's products. You don't have anything proprietary so they're a little bit harder to sell that's why I also said private labels is one of the better ones. So let's say it's in that 20 to 30% that's average, some people are higher than that some people are lower. But if you're in that 20 or 30% net you're doing okay for the most part. But what I used to do is when I was … it's … this business is all about choosing products. The product is the backbone of it. That's where it has a stone in a walk for a lot of people is they're afraid to pull the trigger because they're like I only have 5 grand or 10 grand to start, did I pick the right product. And sometimes they get paralysis by analysis and they just don't move forward. But when you're choosing a product I used to look at the profit margins. I'd find a crate maker for example as one of my old products and you know it had about a 40% margin from what I could buy it from landed and from what I was selling it from and I was like okay this is great but the problem was I was ordering … I ordered 1,000 of them and it took me about 6 months to sell those 1,000. And then I ordered another 1,000 and it took me about 5 months to sell the next thousand. So that's a turnover a little over 2 times per year. So I had a great profit on it but it was tying up my cash tying up my money and so ROI to me is the most important by far number in this business as you want to look at when you're sourcing products is what kind of return on investment. And that's basically how fast can you get your money back. And so I looked for ROI's of at least 150% or greater on everything I do now. And that basically means how many times … if I have and maybe a lower profit margin. Instead of the 40% profit margin, I may have a 25% profit margin. But if I have 150% ROI I'm working and turning that money and that inventory much much faster. And I can grow a lot quicker without having additional outside capital, without having to go into my RA or whatever it may be, or take expensive loans that are out there and you can grow your business faster. So by picking high ROI products, you have a greater chance to success. For example, I recommend you at least turn your inventory 4 times a year in an Amazon business. So it's basically every 3 months you need to be turning your inventory. Ideally 6 to 8. Some people you know a supplements business are at 12 or more. Just by example Walmart stores, their average inventory turnover is 8.3. So 8.3 times per year they're selling through their entire inventory. That's a critical number when choosing products and when choosing things to do in my opinion. So one of the bigger opportunities right now in the space is in the high ticket expensive items because all these courses out there they teach you find something if it fits in a shoe box it's lightweight weighs less, it's cost less than $20, it's easy to source you can buy in for a buck or 2 in China and sell them for 20 bucks on Amazon and the problem is that everybody is there. That's where everybody goes, that's where all the courses … everybody finds the same products, the same weighted blankets, the same barbecue gloves, the same stuff and only a few of those people succeed. And so if you go outside the box and look at the more expensive stuff maybe you don't have to buy a thousand units of them, you only have to buy some things that sell 5 per day but they're selling for $300 versus things that sell 50 per day and they're selling it at $20. You could make a lot more money on these more expensive things. And some people shy away from that because sometimes it's a little bit more of an investment to get into it. But there's great great opportunity there. And the other problem right now is what's happened with all the low end stuff is the Chinese hackers … most of them are Chinese, there are some that are Russian and Eastern European but the vast majority are Chinese and it's crazy what's happening out there. There are leaks inside of Amazon where these guys over in China can get the actual data straight from Amazon, the actual conversion data, the actual … they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff; hardcore competition and its part of their culture to do this. And most people don't … aren't aware of what's happening and your chances of competing on that lower end are getting harder and harder and harder because of all this. Joe: So you recommend to start off that way or you're thinking in terms of larger people … larger account owners to move into that category where its a larger ticket item and a high ROI? Kevin: Both. Joe: Both? Kevin: Yeah, both. Joe: Okay, you mentioned that if you're sending traffic to your Amazon store from Facebook you're doing something wrong on your Amazon … inside your Amazon seller account. What tools can be done what … and maybe it's all basics, Kevin, maybe this isn't anything new but what are the most important things to do to make sure you're improving your traffic on Amazon as much as possible or is it a combination of a number of different things? Kevin: I mean if you're a brand that already exists up there Amazon should just be a channel for you. You already have your own store. You're already selling in retail Amazon is just a channel so that's a little bit different approach. But if Amazon … if you're starting this business and Amazon is your primary focus at the beginning which is what most people are doing now that they're doing FBA business, Amazon is their primary focus in the beginning and that's great and people always say you shouldn't be an Amazon only business. You should be off Amazon and I agree with that but … and you could probably tell me more about this but my experience Joe in the valuations people always say well I don't want to just sell on Amazon. What if Amazon shuts my account down? Amazon likes to shoot 1st and ask questions later and then I'm screwed. I need to be selling on Walmart. I need to be selling on Jet. I need to have my own Shopify site. But most people, the vast majority of people that's a very small percentage of their sales and from my experience, unless it's 20 or 30% between … you know most people say about 30 % maybe you have a better number of your sales it doesn't really add to your valuation. If you got a sale or a buyer coming in if you got 2% of your sales in Walmart or [inaudible 00:30:59.9] if you get shut down on Amazon so what you're still screwed you got to fire everybody. And so most people it's hard to make that adjustment so my advice is if you're going to be starting on Amazon take advantage of the platform. There's never been a better opportunity. It's one of the best business opportunities in the last 100 years of business to start selling on Amazon. And like I said earlier if you're trying to build a brand then use that data and there are ways to do that to then start going off Amazon especially if you're on the consumables side. But I think you're better off taking that same energy that you're trying to put into building a Shopify site or trying to launch on Walmart to go expand to Canada, go expand to Europe, or go expand to Japan. You're much better off. You're going to get a better valuation. Canada is like 5% of my sales compared to the US but that's 2 ½ times what my sales in Walmart are and it's easy. It's same format. I already know how to do it. It's natural and most people are afraid to do that. They're afraid of other countries or they're afraid of other tax systems or they're … whatever. And its ego based. I want to be saying I sold on Walmart or I had my own site … it's bad. Joe: Yeah a lot of the folks that you and I know that are buying up Amazon businesses; one of the 1st things they do is take them international. They buy them and take them overseas. Let's talk about that for a minute- Kevin: But a lot of people don't do that because it's … you're basically doubling your investment. Let's say you want to go to Europe- Joe: They don't have the capital. Kevin: Most people in this business are cash strapped and that's where the opportunity right now is it's like the people that you just said that you know and that I know that are buying these, they're coming in with money and they see the opportunity and they come into play. And at first most of these entrepreneurs they use their life savings or … and then some to try to build this and they're cash strapped so they can't … I mean to go over to Europe you're basically okay now I got to buy all new inventory and float it and they can't do it. Joe: Yeah the people that are buying businesses like this that are coming into the entrepreneurial world for the 1st time say it's great why in the world are they selling? And I always have to ask that question on what they need to understand and what they're learning by going through the process is that most of these businesses whether it's a Shopify store or an Amazon business even those that I've sold in the past that are a combination of both and have a utility patent. It's still bootstrapped and most of the money being made is going back into inventory to keep up with growth. And they're not able to pull a whole lot out and so they're bootstrapping. And they don't expand overseas because they don't have any more places to dip into to pull more money. So somebody coming in from the outside that has that extra working capital and a mindset to take it beyond the 4 hour workweek and run it as you said a dozen times already as a real business and grow it into the different countries and take it beyond a one channel platform and beyond Amazon. You can take it to different countries and it's going to increase your value; it is when you could take it beyond into building that brand off of Amazon into different platform it builds your value even more. But you're got to be challenged. You got to look at that and say okay what … how long am I going to be in this game and how much am I going to invest in terms of time, energy, resources, risk into building a Shopify store and generating traffic to it. If you're going to sell in 6 months for those that are listening and you hear Kevin's advice you know multichannel he's right but every story is different and unique. You don't want to build a Shopify store and start driving traffic to it and investing a lot of money in breaking even or losing for 3 years down the road if you're going to sell in 6 months. My advice is to do what you do and do it really well. Keep selling on Amazon and make that business strong and have some built in path to grow. Kevin: Another one too besides Europe I mean like … or expanding to other market … I mean Amazon's into what 13 marketplaces now? But besides expanding to other marketplaces the other opportunity that's out there is … it goes again back again that gets cash strapped is retail. I mean retail is not dead. I mean there are all these stories about retail is dead and tears is going out of business and Radio Shack went out of business and blah, blah, blah. They didn't adapt. Amazon is going into retail. They've bought whole foods. They're opening retail Amazon Go's. They're opening these 4 star stores out. They're going … retail is not dead. It's still 90% of all sales out there and it's going to probably remain at above 80% for the next several decades. I mean ecommerce is gaining on … it's going to take a bigger share but so going into retail using Amazon as a proven ground is a great way to get into retail too. Joe: How do you make that leap though in Amazon? How do you go okay I'm going to go into retail? Is there a Helium 10 for retail? Kevin: No there's not a Helium 10 for retail, it's a whole different animal. You're just saying about the opportunities outside of Amazon is I agree going to Amazon … other Amazon Marketplace is first should be your top priority if you can. But going into retail I know several people that have started on Amazon and now they're crushing it in retail. But that's … again that's another cash flow thing you know you've got to … it's a whole different animal. There's people that teach … like Karen Waksman stuff that teaches actually people how to go from Amazon to retail and how to get into retail and how to use your Amazon reviews and sales and demographics. And you have this data like look you know I have a lot of people in New York or these areas and you have 27 Target stores right here you know you should be tearing my products. There's a lot you can do there but it's it takes again it's another financial thing. You got to wait 60 days or more to get paid or you got to use factoring to factor invoices and brief purchase orders and so it's a whole different animal but there's great opportunity there too. Joe: But it's also as you're saying it's more cash but it's also math figuring that out and pulling that data out of Amazon. A lot of people have trouble just pulling the data out. Kevin: Yeah they can't that's why I said in the beginning, this is math. If you're not good at math or data analysis you need someone on your team that is. This business is not about … I see so many people go like I improved the product, I made it better, I know my product is good people should just buy it. If the demand is not there, if the data doesn't work, the analyst … there's too much competition you can't … you don't have the margins you've got to bail. To me, people get too emotionally tied to products and then it becomes their little baby and they don't want to abandon their child. Sometimes you've got to kick the kid out of the house. So many people won't do that. I have a rule that after 6 months … I get a product 6 months that I launch. When I launch a new product under my account if within 6 months it's not throwing off at least $2,000 a month in profit, I drop the product because I can deploy that capital in a better way. And so I have … you know some people their business models add, add, add products they got hundreds or thousands of products in their portfolio, mine is not that. I have about 15 to 20 and I do 7 figures so it's manageable. And I kick out once that I replace them with something that can give me a better … it's like stocks you know. I treat products like stocks. And I look at them like stocks, where can I get the best return? And get rid of the low performing ones and replace them, deploy that money into getting something that's higher return. Joe: Let's talk about that just for a minute. We're running a little short on time but I want to touch on new products and staying relevant. And it's going to different for each one. But we're talking now about again the people that are buying the Amazon businesses and one of the great things they can do if they've got capital is to expand to the other countries. What about launching new products is there any methodology to how often you should launch a new product? Or should you just adopt what you've talked about which is it needs to kick off this amount of profit or I get rid of it? And how many can you manage and the folks that you know that are doing … are they doing 10, 15, 20; what are they doing? Kevin: It depends on your … I know people that have 800 products doing 9 figures a year and I know people … typically the people that are doing 9 figures a year have a lot of products. The people that are doing 6 and 7 figures typically … I mean some of them have a lot of products some of them has 50, 60, 70 products. That seems to be kind of a ballpark range. For these guys there in the million dollar figures, they typically are in the probably at least 40, 50 products and then some thousands of products. But as far as launching new products it's all based on the more products you can launch the better you can grow, its cash flow and its opportunities. I see opportunities all the time when I'm doing keyword research and product research and I can't act on it I just don't have the money or I don't have the resources. I'm a small team you know. Some people have 20 people and they could deploy faster. They're sitting in their underwear in their house and it's just them and a couple of VA's. So you're limited by that as well. So it depends on your strategy and your resources how fast you could deploy but as you see opportunities and they still exist out there and there are still new ones coming up every day is taking advantage of those depends on your cash and your team size. And the more of them you can take advantage of the faster you could grow and the more you could sell for. But the money in this business too, one of the important point I want to make is I truly believe that money is made in the sourcing, not on the selling. A lot of people always go what can I sell the product for? It's not what you can sell it for it's what you can source it for. Because you have more price … you're more immune to price competition that way. If everybody is going to Alibaba or global sources or online Google and stuff and just by example you know I just went to China. I went to the Canton fair and there are some socks that a friend of mine sold last year and sold like six … $700,000 for these socks Christmas time and they were paying something like 2 bucks a pair for these socks. Well I found those exact same socks by just going to the Canton fair at 57 cents. You're not going to find that online so most people that are out there doing Amazon they're sourcing online. They're using Alibaba, they're using global sources, my saying is get on a freaking plane and go to China. Because going in face to face you can … it's a big deal in their culture and you could find a lot of stuff that just doesn't exist. I found one supplier of these like Christmas bags that I was like okay great you have a lot of bags I might want to sell these next year as a seasonal item. I said can I go to your website? He said no I don't have a website, oh if you have a catalog … no, I don't have a catalog. I said so how do I order from you? He said take pictures. He had 10,000 different types of bags. Take a picture of what you want here and I'll give you a price, that and the prices were ridiculously low from what I could find on Alibaba. Joe: Sounds like an awful and wonderful- Kevin: So I'm like this is the best opportunity ever because nobody else is going to find this guy. His quality is good, the prices are ridiculous. So that's what I mean the money is made in the sourcing. So if someone else … if I buy a box of socks for example if someone else … you know if I'm buying them at 57 cents and someone else comes in and I'm selling mine say for 10 bucks and all of a sudden someone comes in and starts selling them for 5 bucks. Well, I'm like shoot if I got to go to 4.99 to compete and I'm paying 2 bucks there what my margin maybe I'm going in the hole even after the Amazon fees and everything. Because typically it's about a 3rd a 3rd a 3rd … I mean just as a … if you're doing math, get math, ballpark math Amazon typically takes about a 3rd of the selling price, about a 3rd of the selling price is your cost of goods sold and other expenses, and about 3rd is your profit. So I don't [inaudible 00:41:52.6] 5 bucks there went all my profit but if I'm at 57 cents I can still compete. So that's what I mean the money is in the sourcing and so don't be afraid to get on a plane and go to one of these big fairs in China. Go visit factories that can make a huge difference. And people that are selling, you know the biggest thing that they're already successful the number one thing you can do is if you're sourcing from China especially is get on a plane and go meet your factory. Go eat strange bugs and weird stuff and monkey hearts and whatever the hell else they eat crazy stuff over there and get drunk with the supplier and watch what happens to your pricing. Watch what happens to your terms. All of a sudden 30% down 70% on delivery all of a sudden maybe you get a 60 day terms or you get some other things that can make a huge difference in your business and the pricing is lower. Now you're their buddy you get priority on the production line when it's Christmas time or before Chinese New Year your stuff goes out first. It's amazing what you can do on the sourcing side. Joe: Wow Kevin that's incredible stuff, a lot of tidbits there. Incredible; really, thank you. I understand why you're traveling all over the world speaking and presenting here. If people want to reach out to you and find you how do they go about doing that? Kevin: Yeah sure I mean the probably easiest way is to go to AMZmarketer.com That's A – M – Zed Marketer.com that just redirects to my Facebook page where you can … I don't sell you anything there. It's just where you can listen to all the different podcasts I've been on; a lot of free content. You might get some ideas or learn something. Or if you're already selling at IlluminatiMastermind.com or if you're new to the business and I always recommend this to people … if you're new to the business or even if you've been selling for a while go to FreedomTicket.com there's a webinar there. It's about a two hour webinar it's … you could choose a date on auto replay. It's not live right now but just watch that. You don't have to buy the course if you don't want to but just watch the first hour of that webinar and I think you'll walk away from that. It's not a sales pitch in the first hour. It's a lot of hard core data on how to choose the keywords, how to do things right in this business and just … it's hard core training and just watch that and that might help you understand some stuff. Joe: That sounds great. I hope a lot of people will do that. Those people that are currently running their Amazon businesses and plan to exit someday and the people that are buying we want them to be successful and grow their businesses and come back and sell them someday so that's awesome. Thanks so much, Kevin. I appreciate your time. I look forward to seeing you at the next event. Kevin: Cool, I appreciate it. Thanks. Links and Resources: AMZMarketer.comIlluminatiMastermind.comFreedomTicket.com  

Today with us is Kevin Kaufman. Kevin along with Fred Weaver are the leaders of the 46:10 Real Estate Network. Kevin shares his story of his journey in real estate and success in operating as an expansion team in multiple markets. He also talks about why he came to the decision to move from Keller Williams to EXP and how the EXP system has helped his business grow. He also touches on how other systems are now moving in to EXP alike systems and why they are still set back while EXP is already big. Kevin also gives advice to those who are thinking to make the move.   Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.   In this episode Expansion Bussiness EXP Validation How EXP is a win compared to franchise systems EXP tools for agents EXP is already where other systems want to be Equal opportunities for everybody Revenue Share Income streams Kevin’s those thinking to make the move to EXP   Take Away "EXP's virtual platform gives us the opportunity to explore the environment that helps us be the most conducive environment to us being productive.."   Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Tom to inquire or ask questions. Contact Kevin: Email: realestate@group4610.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KevinKauffman0 Facebook Group Next Level Agents https://www.facebook.com/groups/nextlevelagents/ Links: www.EXPCloud.com   Transcription Kevin : I am host Kevin Cottrell joining me today is Kevin Kaufmann. He is the leader along with Fred Weaver at the group 46:10 Real Estate Network. Previously with Keller Williams. Kevin's gonna share a story today not only of his journey in real estate and success in operating as an expansion team in multiple markets but why he came to the decision after looking very carefully about moving from Keller Williams over to EXP Realty. I'm sure you want to listen to this episode Kevin's got some great insight. Whether you're a team leader for a team, a solo practitioner or in actually another expansion team I think you'll find Kevin's insight into why he ultimately decided to move to EXP very very interesting. Welcome to the show. Kevin. Kaufmann: Hey thanks a lot I appreciate it. Kevin : Well I've been looking forward to this conversation. I know not only when you announced and we'll get into that a little bit you changing brokerages but I see all over social media but for anyone listening to this podcast episode that doesn't know what a rock star organization you run why don't you give a little of your background and information about your network as well as your business. Kaufmann: Yeah no problem so I'm based in Phoenix Arizona in Tempe actually as is where our office is and we.. I say "we" because I've got a business partner Fred Weaver him and I started working together in February of 2008. So I've been licensed for about six months at that time with him and I had done a few things some short sales actually because he had introduced me to them and we'd kind of teamed up on those early out of my career like literally a third transaction I ever did was a short sale listing of Fred's because he was leaving the country and going on his honeymoon. And so I sort of took over and handled a short sale is my first short sale and we ended up closing a couple you know probably good thousand or so 800 to 1000 short sales over the next few years and you know we started building our business around that and it was obviously like anything else very slow at first but in Phoenix short sales was it. So I can remember getting into the business and there being almost 60 thousand homes for sale at that time and put that in perspective here we are in late 2013 is about fifteen sixteen thousand homes on the market. So quite a bit more inventory right. Prices were dropping every day but that and we started building a team and we started taking some mentorship and learning as much as we could and built this real estate team. We ended up naming group 46:10 quite frankly because we didn't want our personal names on the team which didn't wanna have our names on the sign or our phone numbers on the signs and so we started working together and really out of just trying to help each other and it just became this thing we built this team named a group 46:10 and kind of evolved and shifted through the years and definitely have had our kind of that reincarnation where we had to shift from you know going from a short sale or distressed market to a more normal market shift in our models where we went you know kind of like a millionaire real estate agent model if you've ever read that book which I know you have and running that business model too. We actually had salaried buyers agents on our team for for about a year and a half and then to a newer model where we you know just blew it all up again and really started growing and then eventually started selling real estate more than one market more than one city and more than one state. And here we are 2018 and it's deftly been quite a ride. Kevin : Yeah you're in the parlance of that large franchise system before you made the broker change which we'll talk about over to EXP or an expansion business in multiple markets in multiple states were you not. Kaufmann: Yeah yeah. And we still are Phoenix like I said his home base we still operate in Denver Colorado which was our first expansion location and next expansion location was Nashville Tennessee where we still are to this day we also still sell real estate in San Luis Obispo California kind of central coast that we started there in the middle of 2017 started work in there and we still sell it in other parts and Arizona a little bit in Yuma and Tucson Arizona which is obviously outside of Phoenix and not quite the reach that we used to have. We've certainly had our growing pain lessons of opening up stuff too fast and too quick and then having to shut it down and things like that. But you know we still cover four different states and how about six or seven different markets. Kevin : Fantastic well gives everybody a good background and obviously you know I've seen your stats right you guys are a big producing operation you're in the top 250 way way up in the list. And so when you decide to do something with your business this mission critical like change brokerages it's a big deal right it's not an inconsequential decision and for people listening right because with what's going on we'll talk about virtual brokerage or expansion operations in the industry because there's a lot of news that's come out and I want to get your take on it but for you personally and your partner you and Fred sat down you said you know what we're going to consider EXP. What drove that. In other words you certainly couldn't miss it. Right. We've been on fire for I call with two friends. My business partner for the last thirty nine months since he's been here it's like the news started accelerating last October when was it that you said you know what we need to dig into this and figure it out. Kaufmann: Yeah. You know it's funny it's not what it's who. And that who is Curtis Johnson so I'm sure you know Curtis he's a dear friend of mine and has been for 10 plus years. And you know it's funny because you look at Curtis Carson always got a suit and tie on and I'm always in shorts and flip flops and can't even find a shirt with a collar. And so we're kind of the Odd Couple and yet at the same time you know I absolutely adore Curtis and look up to him and a lot of ways. But you know Curtis moved he came to Fred and I in December of last year so he had been strongly considering the EXP and at that point he was pretty sure he was going to make the moves. Curtis came to us because we'd had conversations in the past about trying to find a way to work together. I mean we've tossed around all sorts of ideas. We talked about merging our businesses. We talked about starting a title company together we just were always looking for a way to get into business together and couldn't quite find that thing. And so he comes to us in December he says hey I think I'm a go to EXP I want you guys to come. Truthfully we kinda laughed at him and said Man you know go for it. You know wish you well but that's not my gig. But I obviously want to root for your man. I love you. Come back and let us know what you think after you've been there for four or five months. And so he did. And thank God Curtis you know never gave up on us. And he came back and we had lunch like we do every few months. In May of this year and I'll never forget it was the first week of May and sat down for lunch with Curtis and he started telling us about his experience so far at EXP and it just literally blew my mind and I guess what's worth noting Kevin is that at that point Fred and I had been looking for a new opportunity we'd been looking to leave Callaway homes for quite a while and we'd been doing quite a bit of due diligence on a lot of other companies that actually hadn't done any on the EXP. You know Curtis he runs a massive business. You know they sell 300 plus transactions a year and have for 15 20 years now in the Phoenix area. And so it's not like him moving also. It wasn't inconsequential. We realized it was a big deal and he's someone who is close to us. We went OK what's going on over there. Like what are you seeing. And so he told us what he saw. He shared his experience with us and quite frankly it really grabbed our attention and we said we got to consider this and it wasn't even a six weeks later that we were moved and quite frankly we had a move center if we could but we couldn't. We had our number one guy the guy who runs our Colorado operations and has for four years now from day one. He happened to be out of the country for four weeks during that timeframe. And so we literally couldn't move any sooner. So we saw the opportunity we saw how great of a system it is how awesome expertise platform is that what it could do for our business and our sales business and we saw it as an opportunity to grow and something that could actually be sort of the model and system that we had been seeking out yet hadn't found anywhere yet. Kevin : It's interesting because for listeners what Kevin has shared is the most common response is mostly for something that has a significant business that Hey I'm gonna watch what you're going to do I'm interested. I love you you're a great person I'm going to mastermind with you etc.. It could be anything from an informal relationship to anything like that but it's pretty incredible in other words you listen to the interview with Jay Kinder in his line is what's been seen can't be unseen and that's the message that I think Kevin you would agree with me is there is so much misinformation out there there's so much noise it's getting less because it's getting invalidated right. It used to be. Well you know there on the pink sheet there over the counter then on May 21st we went up listed on the Nasdaq sets. You know and the financials I've been out there for forever and a day so you know the franchise systems try and put that fear out there that it's not going to happen and this is just a silly operation especially with the announcement that the number one franchise system is going to do their own state wide virtual brokerage in all the states. Right. You know that is something that will jump in to in a second but I love your message which is "don't give up on me" right? You know Curtis did a great job of having that conversation and you have to share his story and you're fairly new to the system. But I want to get your take coming out of that large franchise system from expansion right. There's lots of people right now is mostly what we can talk about in a minute with the announcement about the virtual brokerage operations they've got to figure out what they're going to do right. The industry is clearly changing my prediction and what you heard Jean and I talk about is we get 5, 7 years from now in bricks and mortar are going to be either the minority or all but virtually gone for brokerages. It's going to be hard to compete when so much of the industry goes to I don't have bricks and mortar on every corner. We're all over the place. So what would your advice be based on what you've learned from Curtis and what you know about the system now that you're in it for somebody that's maybe got a expansion plan they want to a multi market or they've already started another trying to figure out hey before I go roll this out and really complicate my life you know what would Kevin's advice be if we locked you know five or 10 of these people in a room and you say hey this is where my perspective is. Kaufmann: Yeah. You know my perspective is number one don't go that fast. And that's probably the advice that I got that I just didn't listen to quite frankly as I think like most of us out a victim of my own success right? We hit it out of the park in Denver and while Nashville at first was certainly not a glaring victory it over time it's really become a big one for us. And you start developing these systems you start to believe you can just kind of go everywhere. I'm just gonna say within the constraints of working in a Keller Williams which is a franchise system and KW is not right or wrong good or bad in my opinion. But you know what it is for sure that we can't say is the franchise system. And there is a lot of constraints for real estate because of the way real estate works the way things work with the Department of real estate advertising laws you name it. Like there are so many things that have to be factored in. What we found is we're putting these little bandaids over all these little things that we had to keep working and eventually we just got so big and we're paying so much money to be there that it just we couldn't avoid it. And the minute having the minute we looked at the EXP. We went oh my gosh this is what we've been asking for and what was we've been looking for for so long. In fact the thing I don't mind sharing with you is we were challenged early on in our search for a new home by a gentleman very good guy who was extremely intelligent. He's now the CEO of NRT. Ryan Gorman very smart guy. He said you know why I didn't know what perfect is for you. So that forced us to really think about perfect and there was two things that Fred and I were very clear on from that day forward we were never going to make a move. Number one it had to be one brokerage per state. And a lot of people don't realize how big of a benefit that is. But once you operate in more than one city and more than one MLS and more than one brokerage within the same state you quickly realize what a blessing that is. And then number two is it had to be a financial win for the folks on it in our business who are really on the ground for making things happen working with buyers and sellers. Those two things have to happen. And obviously when you know the EXP model you realize those two things are like that. It's kind of again no doubt. That's just part of it's built in right. That's baked into that because blindside too you know that's the thing I got when I talked to Glenn first time I talked to Glenn I realized oh my gosh this guy he's solving or solved all the same problems I've been trying to solve. That was my biggest takeaway within about five minutes of being on the phone with him the first time. And so when we look at EXP That's amazing. And the truth of the matter is I love Keller Williams. I'm extremely. Let me rephrase that I loved. I'm extremely grateful for what I got there and for my time there and for what I learned in the relationships and that just isn't possible inside of a franchise system. Kevin : And that's great wisdom. I come out of the same system right. I was a team leader there. I was with Andy Allan and Aaron Lancaster you go pull out your original first edition of MRA book. Those guys are in the mastermind groups right. You know Glenn was there too. So if you look at it and you listen to the interview with Brian Culhane he talks about Glenn's expansion teams and Brian helped run those right so that the predecessor to EXP even being formed was essentially expansion business in multiple states. So it's kind of an interesting history. And now here we are even though you know people like Gary Keller he's a visionary. I mean I sat in meetings with him and Dave Jenks and Andy and Aaron where he's like here's how we're gonna get you to go multi market. That was in like 2003. So he was way ahead of the time you know flash forward the complexity you describe in the franchise system and I want to get your take on it right the big announcement at maybe camp was statewide brokerage operations right virtual operations as an overlay on top of franchises. Now you know for people listen to this here's what happened. I'm not gonna make any judgment to this comment. I'll let people read between the lines. A franchise system makes the franchisee review and sign and an underlying review in sign the FTD it's a federal disclosure every year. Right it's a part of being a franchise operation. Do you think that most of the LPs actually read that thing. Kaufmann: Well listen man I was a regional director for KW for like 30 seconds. I couldn't get past the like the first four pages and a couple of hundred pages or whatever. Kevin : So I'm not gonna make judgments of this. We were approached by some of our good friends and like you I have lots and lots of contacts and love for Keller Williams. There's great people there. Well here's what happened. I was sent as it was Gene and a number of other people the FTD and specifically a page reference well somebody read it. They were able to do what they're doing and this is why a lot of the LPs are scratching their heads. Now they're like well wait a minute I got a franchise awarded and I had a territory. Where's the bad news for you go read your FTD. They took the Territory restriction out last September in the edition they put out last year. So most people don't even know that in and maybe that for a lot of people and the listeners for this podcast this is the first time you're going to realize if you're an LP at Keller Williams you probably want to go pull out your FTD if your scratching your head has to wait a minute. How do they do this. Well that was something was put in there and they did this the first time ever they did it. So this big announcement and all the noise and you know I like Adam I've known Adam a long time and he's talking you know he did his Facebook Live I'm sure you watched it too. Our was sent to you and you watched it and the message is they're very aware that this is going to be disruptive we're already disrupting it EXP right. So now you've got the franchise system doing it and you know God bless him. It's complete validation of the EXP right. They've been saying this doesn't make sense does make sense. It's not going to work but we're the number one franchise system on you know transactions et cetera et cetera et cetera age account and then they come out and make him they go statewide virtual operations you know. So what is your take on it right. You know you described something about operating in multiple markets let's just take it within one state right. You know you go into a big market let's say you were going to expand to Dallas. You know there's multiple owners and multiple offices. Each one's going to have a different ownership group or you know potentially overlapping and you're going to have to deal with that. And like you said in an EXP world that doesn't exist right it's state by state there's a brokerage operation that covers the entire state and multiple MLS is. So what is your take on it. Based on the virtual brokerage operation let's pretend hypothetically you were still at Keller Williams and now you can join the you know you qualify right because they've certainly made it clear you have to be at an elite level you qualify and you're going to be able to expand. It's going to be a win for expansion operations it simplifies your growth. Correct? Kaufmann: That's assuming that they can actually pull it off. So I think what's really important Kevin as we look at the fact the plan's not there yet. If you go back and listen to the CEO speech they'll have the details. The actual setting up of let's call it 50 brokerages because there's 50 states maybe they don't need 50 I don't know. But let's just call it 50 for sake of an argument setting up 50 brokerages higher shitty brokers doing all that stuff like first of all there's some logistical nightmares there that have to happen like you know EXP didn't get to thirteen thousand agents overnight it was launched in 2009. Here we are it's 2018 and it feels like they just burst on the scene over the last couple of years. But you and I both know it's been going on for you know since 2009 and it's not to say that this is going to Keller Williams nine years to get going. However there are quite a few things that have to happen. What I'm more concerned about is changing the FTD is one thing but in a franchise system you've got five and 10 year contracts for your franchise. And so changing terms and conditions on like page one hundred and thirty seven at four hundred and two in the third paragraph second sentence there can be some legal ramifications there. And so they've obviously got to be really careful in how they roll this out. My opinion is that was a statement to say hey please bear with us we're working on this we're trying to we're trying to fix it we realize it's a problem now they've known it's a problem for years it's been at least over two years since since they've been aware of this issue and it just now decided to come public with it which definitely was funny. Interesting timing but the reality is is it's going to be still really hard to execute and then when they do execute. My guess is there's probably going to be consequences from legal ramifications from the franchise owners. That's my guess and unfortunate that'll probably end up in court. And you have to choose you are Keller Williams international or any other franchise. Are you going to choose the group of agents that are running these and this expansion business or are you going to choose the people that you have a franchise agreement with. Kevin : Absolutely. I agree with you. I mean I think that it was definitely something that when you look at it it's definitely doesn't have the detail at this point but what was interesting that came out in Adam's video was they were already fielding calls of 40 or 50 LPs at a time and having people I would expect being concerned. So my take on it is the bigger concern I have. I mean Jean and I and you and others have a passion for agents. That's the culture and foundation of EXP Realty. And I worry about creating an environment of sort of the elite expansion businesses having preferential terms and the average agent in the market center right let's say that I don't ever want to be Kevin and Fred and have a gigantic multi market business. But now I'm competing with the let's say it let's us hypothetically flash forward and I figure out some of the details and they don't end up with a mess and they're able to execute let's say even if they take a state like Arizona and they roll this out. Now there is a dichotomy in the market right there's the haves and the have nots right? If I'm an expansion business and I'm able to do this I continually cut a deal in the way that they framed it out in the preferential terms in terms of how I do this. And now I'm an agent in the market center and unless I graduate to the elite level and qualify I don't get even on the playing field and I don't like how that feels from an agent standpoint right. Because there are great agents in the KW systems with a lot of them. You and I are friends with lots and not everybody wants to be the gigantic multistate operation to qualify for that elite level and I don't want your take on it is I heard from a lot of people. "I don't like how this feels. I don't want to have that business." "That's not me. I've got a great business. I've got a small team here but I'm really concerned that I'm going to be competing on a level field". Kaufmann: Not only that the other piece you got to look at here Kevin. And let's just say that the LPs overall are our quote unquote OK with it. So if you go look at these top expansion teams and I'm not going to name names there most of them are my friends and people are highly respect and in some cases really love So we're talking about they're gonna get to go to this extra brokerage this new brokerage this virtual brokerage and and those agents on their team will now get this you know call it a half cap if you will and special treatment. But the problem is is those teams are comprised of other capping KW agents. And so what's going to happen is. So if I am one of these you know mega team X expansion teams when I grow color wins doesn't grow like it stays the same because I'm just they're just recruiting other KW agents to their team. A lot of cases they're recruiting another Keller Williams team to their team and it's what I call their acquiring teams they're not even recruiting agents they're acquiring other teams. And I don't see how that win. So if I'm on the local market center owner and I've got no. 6 or 7 capping agents in my company. And now they've been recruited to these six or seven different mega expansion teams and now they're going to leave my brokerage. I can't go to the other brokerage. Not only are they going to pay a lot less money in company dollar but then that's going to get shared back. But I like am I going to get all of that back? and I get even if I got all of it it's still not even half of what I was getting. And so again you run into legal ramifications that I think clearly haven't been thought through and that's why it's not rolled out and why it won't be rolled out for some time because they will have problems like that. Kevin : I couldn't agree with you more. My personal story which we talked about before we started recording is the fact that you know even in a market center right let's forget about the statewide brokerage operation for a minute and you're highly successful right. I moved into a marketplace from out of state. I didn't know anybody and I went in less than three years from zero to 240 transactions a year. This was before the online stuff was dominated by real track common Zillow in most markets. We set up a real geek's Web site was one of the first ones we rolled out in a massive way. And I knew Jeff Manson pretty well and so I roll out this Web site. I hire a whole content team and we knock it out of the park. We're ranking for a gazillion things. We're starting to get everybody's leads right. We're doing what expansion teams do as well from the lead generation standpoint right. They start to dominate the markets right. You know the really big ones come in like you said they roll in teams and otherwise and they turn on massive Legion. So I run into a problem right. I'm brought in in the open and the team that are like you are causing so much chaos in our markets center. We've had 15 or twenty five agents complain about it that this person and that person are working with your buyer agent. This is going on and that's going on and we can't have that. And you know the bad news is the way they resolve that in a franchise is I was asked to leave and I was told I mean I have 57 active listings 30 paintings and I was brought in an hour before and a I'll see meeting and told you've got till Friday you move. I didn't right. I negotiated a more orderly transition out. But if we look at that now flash forward to statewide brokerage operations there is going to be no remedy for the agent market center because they're open to too are going to say well I don't know what to tell you. That's a state brokerage issue and we have nothing to do with them. If you're a franchise agent and you're worried about this just I can tell you from personal experience you know you've reach out to me if you want to have an offline conversation. But the net net on it was I wasn't given an option. I even talked with the regional director and his answer to me was I do not know what to tell you this is a franchise issue they can resolve things how they see fit. We have nothing to do with it. And the region can't help you. Well that's kind of going to be the dialogue with somebody complaining about a giant expansion business. It's going to be you know sorry. They're in a different brokerage and be like you complaining about a different franchise and that's my biggest concern. When I talk about the unlevel playing field is I've seen how this is resolved. And so my word of warning for people is you know Kevin's very very astute on this. It's potentially not going to be rolled out for a while but if you're looking at your business long term just realize that this is an issue you're going to have to cross and it may or may not be an issue for you but just know that you know potentially an unlevel playing field is being created and it doesn't feel good to me right. Because I know how they resolve the issues and the ability to get it resolved is going to be messy. Number one you know as far as execution but you know the good news is there is an environment in EXP where you know we've always allowed you know the rainmaker to come in on a team and they've got you know one cap nationwide and they can go build as they see fit. We don't have the complexity in the issues we've done the hard fight of opening offices you know in terms of a state brokerage operation in each state for 49 states. And that takes a while. Right. We've learned lots of lessons. You know when you see Glen message about this it's like Oh my God we've learned so much since we started in 2009 to do this and the reason we didn't open all 50 states immediately was that it would be virtually impossible to tackle all the complexities that are different in every state. So I share your view Kevin that this is not happening anytime soon. So if somebody were listening to this and obviously they're trying to get the you know two or three main drivers let's talk about a couple of different audiences. You are you know running a Facebook group and I will get all your information out here in a minute before we get done recording so people can find you on Facebook and you know some of the stuff you sharing your masterminds and some of the stuff you do. But if you were advising let's just talk about a couple of the different constituents out there right. Somebody in the franchise system there a capper and they're looking at this potential for a future unlevel playing field. What would be the two or three things you'd tell about what you know about EXP for why they would want to probably strongly at least take a good look at it. Kaufmann: The reality is EXP is an awesome company in what you look at it. You start to see that. So I'll speak for where I was like I just didn't look at it I didn't give it a fair shake and I just decided you know my brand better than your brand. Blah blah blah. And I fell in for that whole thing. Which is just dumb right. I mean when I look at like what all everything I have inside of enterprise which is the backend system everything from the marketing support to tech like Sky slope the ability to have the different Web sites through the technology agreement. There is a lot. Therefore it. Agent who quite frankly especially looking at the marketing platform you can build a bigger business for less money because of the tools that are already included. So this is not EXP talking about we're gonna have it one day. It's actually already here today it's been here for a while. Then you take a look at the fact that it's virtual which is awesome. And if you want to have a physical space you can do that. I'm a physical guy like I literally like to show up to the office every day. I bought an office building about a year ago long before I ever thought I'd be at EXP because I want to own commercial real estate and it's flexible. And so you can go to an office if you want. There's obviously the Regus agreement but there's also the opportunity to go buy your own building or go rent somewhere else and rent your own space whatever it is. The thing is is we're not all the same as real estate agents. We all want something a little bit different. We might be doing the same thing because we're told we're supposed to but we haven't really explored that and EXPs virtual platform gives us the opportunity to explore the environment that helps us be the most conducive environment to us being productive. One of the things I always loved about KW Was the ability to mastermind to share things with other agents and I just have never seen anything more collaborative than what happens here at the EXP and that is supported obviously because of things like the financial incentives to do so when you introduce somebody to the company whether that's through the stock plan or through the revenue share plan etc. This is like truly open book. Let's share let's help each other let's grow in a big way way beyond anything I've ever experienced my life and I've been in every circle there is to be an inside of the other company and it was great. Don't get me wrong but I like this a little bit better a lot better in fact and so I think no matter what your thing is whether that's the ability to create other income streams besides buying or listing another house or building another team or a bigger team or buy more leads etc. or the ability to leverage the technology that already exists that isn't just coming one day maybe. Or the ability to do business across multiple states and have the level playing field like just the simple fact that the split is the split no matter what state you're at. No matter how big of a producer whether you've sold 500 houses last year or five I think that's amazing. And I think that's great. And I think that it shows that there is an equal opportunity here for everybody. It's truly equal opportunity that everyone's here to take advantage of it the same way you look at those things and I just want you know I truly believe that this platform gives not just me but any agent who wants to be honest about it and really look at it and give it a fair shake it gives us the ability to grow a bigger business than we ever knew was possible. And it gives us the ability to create other income streams besides just selling more real estate and growing a bigger team. And it's kind of hard to not like that. Kevin : Absolutely. You know you and I have been in a franchise environment in growing teams and when we are on point we recruit talent. Right? And so that dynamic that you talked about that i'll just touch on for a minute is guest after guest on the podcast talks about the fact that in the previous franchise system or in their office some of them were in the same market center and they're like we never collaborated on one single thing right. We were number one and number two in this market center in the Dallas area and now we collaborate. Now we mastermind how we talk and so that sharing which is not necessarily very transparent outside is something that I love hearing you say because it is nothing short of incredible and the retention strategies around building wealth for the talent that we recruit. Even if they decide to go off on their own we're in a lot of the franchise systems that's something that creates strife sometimes people leave and they unfortunately go to other brokerages. I'm not seeing this develop at all at EXP. I mean you know there's these "let me help you grow and then if you decide you don't want to be in my operation my team anymore" you know because of the other streams of income the fact that we're all shareholders it's basically encouraged and you know I haven't found anybody that doesn't just get blown away with what they see once they're in the system. Kaufmann: It's pretty remarkable what it is when you actually look at it. Kevin : And I agree with you. And so your advice of digging in is absolutely spot on right. In other words you can't go by what's posted in the you know thousand comment streams in the large Facebook groups right where somebody says What about this versus this and I called the brokerage bashing that goes on in the comments or you know if you cut them off after a thousand comments you know some agents some poor agent reading that would have no idea. And it's so far from accurate because what you said which is everybody's got their version of their business and it's going to mean different things to different people. So my advice always is what yours is which is you owe it to yourself to dig in and at least look at it right even if you decide to stay at your brokerage wherever it is you can be an independent. You can be a killer Williams You could be at Remax no matter where you are. I think the biggest mistake somebody would make and only get your take on it. It would be to be close minded and look up and go. I'm not even looking at it. This is not for me because I've seen people come back around. I've had people basically start out with a "I'm not interested. Not going to work for me" and we're starting to see them stop doing that. And then when they do look at it they join. I mean one of the guests I have coming up on the podcast is John Sterling you know. And he was a big deal within KW right. He supported numerous team leaders. He had relationships with hundreds and hundreds of OPs and team leaders and agents across the country. And once he dug into it he's like Oh my God I can't believe that I didn't dig into this before. And you know he recently and when I interview and you'll see and you know this you saw his post on Facebook that you know he's joined in. You know he's you know Jean and I are supporting him and he's going to come in and you know he sees the value as well so I was glad to hear you say that. Let's talk a little about your social media stuff your masterminds because I want agents to be able to get plugged in. It doesn't matter what the flag they fly. Brokerage wise. Right? You know you give back to the community you create a lot of value. You got a large Facebook group. You do masterminds you do in person stuff. So wouldn't you detail a little bit that out so that people if they want to get plugged into your world can. Kaufmann: You know the truth is is that I'm a big fan of people and relationships and those always trump company to me. And so while I do love EXP I did love Keller Williams didn't love either one more than I care about my relationships with people and one of those relationships is obviously my business partner Fred but also our good buddy Kody Gibson who runs a large large team over at Keller Williams and almost two years ago we just decided to start a Facebook group. We just want to start a mastermind online you know brand agnostic for people to come and share ideas best practices do webinars things like that. So we started a group it's now called the Next Level Agents about twenty 23000 maybe 24000 members in there and we just do our best to bring really good content to the real estate community regardless of brand. We try to keep it very brand agnostic and try not to get these two entities brokerage wars conversations that break out unfortunately you can't stop some people from saying my team is better than your team but that's another subject. But for the most part it's high level conversations right. We started putting together some live events like we did one in May this past Las Vegas called NLA Live. You go to NLALive.com you can kind of see the promo from last year or the highlights from last year as well as the information for next year's event where we just brought in speakers from all different companies different subjects and just said hey let's get back to the community today. And that's really what that's the essence of the brand of that group is let's get back and let's share best practices and help each other. Check us out on Facebook if you haven't already it's Next Level Agents. You can go to Facebook.com/groups/NextLevelAgents I believe it's how you can find it easy or just search it. Yeah. That's just kind of a project. You know we've got a mastermind event coming up this October in Portland which we're really excited about. We're looking to do one or two live events a year and so this will be obviously a little bit smaller than the Vegas event where we had a couple hundred people show up and next year we're expecting more like four to five hundred people in person plus the all of the live streams. So we'll just see it as an education platform and a platform to be able to communicate with the real estate community because that matters. This is a relationship business at the end of the day no matter what. And quite frankly if I'm representing a buyer or seller I could care less what brand has the listing or the other side of the transaction. I've got to make sure that a good relationship with the other party and we can get this deal done together in a win win scenario. Kevin : Fantastic. Obviously I have every guest give their contact information so that if somebody listen to this and they want to basically get in touch with you and talk about it. This is another thing that's not very transparent from the outside of you. We're all shareholders. We all want to provide best information. So Kevin give your contact information and basically you can reach out. Does it matter who introduced you to the EXP. We're all here as a resource. This man is me Jean. Kevin does it matter who it is John Sterling we're all here to get you the best available information so you can make a good decision. Kevin. How would they reach you. What's the best way. Kaufmann: Yeah. Best way is by email realestate@group4610.com just comes right to me and my business partner Fred another really good way is Facebook. You know Facebook Messenger is always a great way. Easiest way to find me. I'm sure there's more than one Kevin Kaufmann on Facebook. So if you got our Next Level Agents it be pretty easy to see who the admins of that group is connect with me that way. Facebook Messenger is always a really good way too and by all means reach out. We love referrals too. So Phoenix San Luis Obispo Denver Tucson Yuma Nashville. We definitely love real estate referrals. We sell a lot of real estate. We want to sell a lot more. Kevin : Fantastic. I appreciate you coming on the show any final thoughts before we drop off today. Kevin : Now you know I'm just I'm so excited to meet this company and be in business with my partners like Curtis Johnson and Walker and so many of the other that we are in business with here and looking forward to a very very bright future. All right great. Thanks for coming on the show.

Today we have Dallas based agent and real estate investor Ian Flannigan. From an investment real estate agent to Ian has been in the real estate industry for over 15 years and has come a long way gaining a diverse background around investment property sales and distressed properties and has become an expert at it travelling around the country speaking on creative financing and topics.  Ian talks to us about what attracted him to EXP and his transition coming out of a franchise system and joining EXP. He touches on the things that led him to decide to move all of his businesses including his investment business his brokerage business etc. over to EXP Realty  He brings a business owners perspective not just a listing and selling agents perspective.  Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.     In this episode. The Investor & Business Owner's Perspective  Creating Cashflow and building assets Benefits the Cloud provides Equity and revenue share Being the exponential earner Getting awarded EXP shares and becoming an EXP icon The compound effect on my revenue share & referrals  Predicting your income   Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Ian to inquire or ask questions. Contact Ian: Text at  214 213 1737  Links: www.EXPCloud.com   Take away "you borrow capital you'll leverage it against a property and then you receive that cash flow. The reality is not too many people ever get to that point" Ian Flannigan   Podcast Transcription Kevin: Welcome back to another episode of In The Cloud the EXP realty explain podcast I am host Kevin Cottrell. Joining me today is Dallas based agent and real estate investor Ian Flannigan Ian is going to tell us about his transition coming out of a franchise system and then working for a transaction based brokerage to decide to move all of his businesses including his investment business his brokerage business etc. over to EXP Realty and why he did that. He brings a business owners perspective not just a listing and selling agents perspective. Ian and I are going to talk about things ranging from equity revenue share and the other things that attracted him to EXP realty. Please stay tuned for my interview with Ian Flannigan. Welcome to the show Ian. Ian: Hey how's it going. Kevin: It's going awesome. I'm looking forward to our conversation now for any of the listeners the podcast that may not be familiar with you once you take a minute and give your background and history as far as real estate. Ian: I've been in real estate for almost about 15 years and I was a young hairdresser in my past life. We all have that story right? So you know I read that book Rich Dad Poor Dad and made me realize that I was you know spinning my wheels as a self-employed business owner. I didn't own a business I owned a job and just like you know we have friends that are attorneys you know real estate agents. Well you know all that stuff that they had these commission businesses and stuff like that so I knew that I had to make a change so I started studying real estate and I started flying around the country go into seminars was like a lot of people I didn't come into the business through the licensing side I came through the investing side which I really cherish that information because I have a very intimate knowledge of how the legal process works with pre foreclosures. We know probate houses people losing their houses the tax liens. I mean I've bought fire damaged houses all kinds of very interesting distressed property situations. I've become an expert at it and I've traveled around the country speaking on creative financing and topics like that because I ran a big seller financed real estate model for quite a long time and like I said I wasn't licensed I leveraged to brokerage's one in Oklahoma City one here in Dallas and we used all of our marketing and we ran all of our leads through them. I learned the business on both sides so when I was drafting my own contracts two years before I ever got a license so you know the market changed and I felt like I left a lot of money on the table so I started. I realized that like look I'm going to get go ahead and get my license because I'm processing so many deals through my investment company. So I might as well do it so you know I got my licence I hung out with Keller. Keller was a great company at the time, for me it wasn't a good fit. When I moved my licence over to a 100 % shop and it was a much better fit for my needs at the time but I had a big exit out of my investment company and everything that I had built over the last nine years kind of came to an end and I knew that I needed to buy and sell houses I knew I needed to list and sell houses but I also knew that I had to build more cashflow and I needed to build more assets because I just made an exit out of a company and it was a very interesting time in my life because I went through a legal divorce. You know I went in business with these wealthy individuals that were coming out of it luckily everything the dust settles all right. I came out OK but you know I knew that I had to build something again and when I saw the model with the EXP I was like oh my gosh this is interesting because there have been nothing like it that I've ever seen. So that's how I got to be. Kevin: Great! So you have a diverse background especially around investment property sales and distressed properties. When you looked at EXP you mentioned like myself I was a team leader at Keller Williams for a long time great company but the EXP is.. You know especially and I want to chat about this for a minute. It's a different model. When you talked about Rich Dad Poor Dad in thinking like a business owner that I think the industry has seen so there's a lot of noise and information out there that is confusing for real estate agents. In other words I want you to take a few minutes and talk a little bit about how you process this as a investor slash business owner because for real estate agents listen to this a lot of them have a commissioned sales job and they need some help understanding how to think like a business owner. Ian: You know that that couldn't have been the more perfect way to explain that because you know being an investor we have to think about OK how are we going to get money out in the market. This is how our thought processes we have X amount of capital we can leverage capital and we're going to put that money out into the market either short term or long term and then we're going to get a return on it's going to be a four month timeline a six month timeline. So that's what we're doing when we're buying and selling houses right we're thinking of it as a business it's not on the other side of the track where when you're listing agent it's a different experience because you don't own the house you're not responsible for the repairs utilities all that other stuff it's just a different ball game but it's a great way for someone to be able to get into the market and that's what almost drives me crazy about getting a real estate licence. Was I did that in a couple of weeks it took me almost a year to get a licence to cut hair in the state of Texas as it was mindblowing how different it was but my point is you know getting into real estate is the barrier to entry isn't that you know it's not very difficult. So there's a lot of people coming in and they don't really think of it like a business. They don't know that they have to put themselves out into the marketplace and sell themselves as a business owner so they get stuck in just that hamster wheel of the commission side of the business still thinking of it from an investment standpoint is like like oh my gosh this company... Forget the name forget all of it just look at your balance sheet and what are you doing on your balance sheet. Right you've got income expense asset liability what are you doing to create income in your business that you only have a commission type of business you only have one source. So this is the way that I see it because I built a seller financed model by leveraging capital we would raise millions of dollars actually. We didn't raise millions of dollars until after we placed it because one of our limited partners was our lender. So we had in-house lines of credit and I was buying you know five to 10 houses a month that I was selling them on owner financing and carrying back a note and we were archiving basically building a big huge spreadsheet of notes right. So once my mind opened to that like I knew that there were so many different ways to make money in real estate but once you find one model that you can't replicate and duplicate... And that's what exactly what I was doing with seller financing I was buying a house. I was renovating that house and that I was selling it and carrying back a note. And the more notes that I could create the more money I could borrow because we had we were building. A balance sheet of. Assets. Yes we had debt on it but. Our cash flow was compounding. Our interest was compounding. So having that experience with selling houses in volume like that and then carrying back notes like a bank that's what expanded my mind into understanding how to create massive amounts of cash flow and that's traditionally how you do it you borrow capital you'll leverage it against a property and then you receive that cash flow. The reality is not too many people ever get to that point even when they've been in real estate 15 20 years especially if they're coming from the licensing side of the world unless they have some mentors and coaches that were great that helped them put money back in you know build assets outside of their license that would be great. But most people never experience that. So when I saw EXP I really understood like oh my gosh like I got it immediately. Not only could I you know sell houses I could get you know software and technology to plug into to sell more houses because the training in EXP is you know second to none which people don't realize is the support and the training in the cloud is 100 times more effective more efficient. I mean the words just go on and on and on that describe how well you know it is and how easy it is to plug into the cloud. It's... The support and training is you can access it from anywhere in the world any time. There are no restrictions on getting in your car driving down to the road like that is gone that is over we plug into the cloud. So. That's one of the biggest takeaways of you know. Jumping into that is the time right we're all trying to... Maximize our time. So you know not driving down to offices. I had a huge office on the eighth floor overlooking. Downtown Dallas and I hated it because I had to get my car. I had to drive down to the office. Much more efficient with the home based office than I'd take my laptops and I got my Wi-Fi. So when I travel. I'm connected so. That I was the one thing is offloading that big expense of an office so that's the biggest thing that the cloud provides. And you know. To grow business you've got to reduce your expenses and grow your cash flows. And grow your transactional cash flow too. Kevin: So let me ask you a question regarding the business small as a business guy. You know so when you're traditionally a commission based business you know like you said that's one stream of income. When you look at the two big plays that EXP let's talk about the one being equity and the other being revenue share. The market really doesn't get this from the standpoint of the way startups work in Silicon Valley that's where I come from. You know so they look at it. I'm a real estate agent. I'm at XYZ brokerage I'm at independent it could be a big franchise. I go through my business I sell own a bunch of houses every year and either take listings and so on will get buyers at the end of the year or if I run my business well like you said I make a little bit of money. Ian: Yeah. Kevin: Now meanwhile there are people like Sherry Elliott who you know because she's in your marketplace that come on the podcast and go Hey by the way I'm buying a EXP stock for 20 % below on the commission plan. I've also been awarded it as an Icon for several years. You know I look at my account and I've got seven hundred thousand dollars in equity and if you'll look around a big franchise market center or office I would challenge you and you know this because you're in the marketplace. This is where the market doesn't get it right. There are not people running around with 150000 like I met an agent here in Austin or 700000 like Sherry Elliott where this is just occurring on automatic investment because the average agent just at the end of there like oh how many units did I sell. Ian: Exactly. That's you know the biggest part of about the business model is. Having that that potential to be what we call the exponential earner right. How you can scale a business. And adding stock and equity to your balance sheet. You know it's like sitting down with a financial planner and saying hey we're going to take a little bit of your cash we're going to put it here again take a little bit more your cash. We're going to put it here and then over time we're going to let this grow. And that's what people don't understand is. EXP offer's.... It's almost like a 401k for real estate agents. So as they're closing transactions moving forward paying into the brokerage we're actually getting a return on the money we're paying in. Right. Especially with the stock program that we have you know there's actually you know there's six different ways to get stock. One is to buy over the counter. Another is when you close your first transaction with the EXP you'll get awarded I believe it's 50 shares right now that could be off because the numbers are changing so fast I can't keep track of them but you'll get awarded shares of stock when you close your first transaction and then when you cap once you sell you know two point six six or about three million depending on what commission structure you're on 2.5 or 3 % whenever you cap you'll get more shares of stock I believe around 100 shares right now and then here's the cool part is if you sell 20 houses after your cap which a lot of team leaders do and a lot of brokers do they do a lot of volume or if you're a commercial and you sell about half a million then you can qualify to become an Icon. And then there's a panel that vote you and once you get qualified. You can receive your entire cap backing company stock which is sixteen thousand dollars just awarded back to you in company stock and that is pretty darn amazing. Because think about that. All the other franchise models that are out there there are great companies. You know. Nothing has changed in real estate in the last hundred years. Now the Internet has finally caught up with the brick and mortar real estate model. And no longer are agents being you know paying every dime in you know into their brokerages and not seeing a return on it. So it's a completely different mindset from this day forward of technology and growth and all that it's just changing the game in you know the billion dollars in expenses that all the big companies have. What do you think they're going to be in five and 10 years. I mean the internet has completely changed everything. But but that's why it's so important to build a future. And we haven't even talked about the revenue share. I mean you know as you're closing transactions you can be accumulating stock just through production. So every transaction you close your laying stock you have to think about that is building assets on a balance sheet. So back the very first thing we first started talking about where is why is what attracted me was understanding that I could build and compound more and more line items of assets on my balance sheet like in a spreadsheet. When you see cash flow coming at you in a spreadsheet and you see a total at the bottom and that total gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger by adding more line items of assets to your balance sheet. When I saw the revenue share model my mind was blown. And I've been in the company two years in what I've seen happen in the last two years. I mean I just stopped telling people the numbers because they're so big it just It's not relevant to them right. How does anyone relate to the kid that won the 450 million dollar Powerball in Florida. Like how is that relevant to me right. That's a massive amount of cash. It's like you know it's just one of those things. What do you think about that. Kevin: It's exactly what people miss. I talked to somebody last weekend. She's in Southern California and I'm glad you brought up the Icon program because as I started to ask her questions I could see that because she comes from a big franchise system that she was confused by the noise and information and other words they're trying to basically make it not clear that you're getting an equity award if you qualify for the Icon program of 16000 and that that's highly highly difficult to actually obtain that. Well as you mentioned either based on GCI or 20 transactions above capping. Ian: That's right. Kevin: There are very clear terms on how you qualify for this. So in her case she's got a big presence right. So I asked her some questions and just to clarify for our listeners in her case I said well how many referral fees on top of capping right she does about four or five million dollars a year. So she easily qualifies based on capping and she's in a high priced market in Southern California. I said well how many referrals did you do. She said I did I think somewhere around eight or nine referral fees that I got paid back to me last year. I said do you do any leases you're in a pretty high price market you've got to have people that are looking to lease houses and she goes I did it at least 10 of those on top of my real estate transactions. I said well just the referral fees and the leases are 18 transactions. How many did you do above. Approximately three million in volume. She goes well I have like another six transactions on top of that based on her pricing. I'm like OK well in our model you would be an Icon. Ian: That's right. Kevin: She's like I have no idea. I'm like yeah that's exactly how this program works. And assuming that you want to participate you're going to get all of your money back after you basically qualify based on transactions and you know the other structure and then for anybody listening to this you can certainly reach out we'll have some more information about the Icon program in this and other episodes. But don't let the marketplace confuse you. This is a real program. We can refer you to plenty of icons within EXP to talk to them about qualifying. Some of them have qualified for more than one year. In other words this isn't some promo special like you'd have at the car dealer where they're doing it once right. We have icons that have been here for more than two years that have qualified. Every year their hair. So the whole purpose of this podcast and I'm glad you brought this up is to have people understand because as a business owner at most brokerages there is no way to qualify to get your company dollar back. Right they just don't offer programs like that specially around equity which is an appreciating asset in most entities like this. So you absolutely are in a position to create value. I mentioned two numbers and now I want to tie this down. There is a agent I met at one of the meet greets right one of the EXP explained meetings and when this came up about Sherry Elliott in the conversation she said well I don't have a big mega team right. I'm a Capper. I do business and I've been investing in EXP stock through the program that Ian talked about where you can divert 5 % of your commissions. She said I have a hundred and fifty five thousand dollars in less than two years in my equity account. I would challenge any listener here if you're in a franchise or even an independent brokerage. Go look at your equity account and go ahead and send me a message if you have a hundred and fifty five thousand of your company's stock in there. And I think you and I know the answer is not unless you're buying at the market and you happen to work for a company that's traded right there's companies like Real Ajee or Remax or others out there that you could buy stock but you're not buying it for 20 % below market. Ian: Now you've got to buy it at today's value which it's been going down. Kevin: Let's transition a little bit to revenue share I'm going to give you my perspective and then I want to hear yours as a real estate investor so Gene-Frederic and I come out of the team a role or the regional owner role if you will at a big franchise system Keller Williams in particular but they all work the same way right. So one of the big things that were trying to basically make sure that agents understand is in a franchise system and if you are lucky enough to be around Keller Williams in the early days and this would be in the 90s right Gene-Frederic and Susan joined in the early 90s. They along with others had the opportunity to invest and buy regions right Gene-Frederic in particular with a couple of partners own Northern California Hawaii. Ian: I actually hung my license at DPR and live right down the street from where they used to live in Plano Texas. Kevin: That's awesome. And so for anybody looking at this the way regional owners are paid in franchise system and I'll speak specifically for Keller Williams is the royalties are taken off the top and they are paid half to the regional owners and have to the regional operating company in Austin. Right. So half and half. So one of the interesting variants of information out there in the marketplace is taking money off the top. It's not sustainable. Well if Remax does it if Keller does it. If all of the real Ajee franchises do this and if they have a regional operating partners or owners they're all paid this way then I challenge anybody that has been told that to go back and ask the person that told you this is this not how our franchise system the regional owners get paid. And the answer I'll just give you the answer is yes. So don't let anybody tell you that paying money off the top out of the revenue stream is not sustainable. This is exactly what EXP is doing. They don't have regional owners. From the standpoint of anybody buying in and owning Northern California Hawaii like Gene and Susan did with their partners. You are paid as a regional owner any EXP so to speak and I'm using that term broadly and loosely but it's the same concept off the top. Based on agents that are attracted to the company they become like your regional owner group. So with that as a precursor so people understand the concept here. This is not any different than what the franchise are doing. Ian what's your perspective on this as a business opportunity. Ian: So the way I see it and then you can correct me if I'm wrong that you know this is a big referral type of based payment right. Everyone understands. Getting a referral you mentioned the referral a moment ago. I have someone in California. I have a lead in California. I'm in Texas. I contacted agent say hey I have a great lead for you. They're jumping up and down because it's a five million dollar acquisition. So they think I've hung the moon. And I come and I go back to that same age and I say Hey. Here's the business model. That I'm operating around the entire country if you're interested in it and you're attracted to it and you like it. I could sponsor you into this model and then I could show you how to expand that. Across the entire United States as well. So now I sponsor that age in California. Now every time they close the transaction I'm going to get paid a referral fee. How cool is that. Right. And then every time they attract somebody. Into the company underneath them they could be in Seattle they could be and. They could be in. WASHINGTON They could be in Florida. They could be down in Alabama taxes Arizona. Every time those agents close transactions not only is that agent that I sponsored in California are going to make a referral now I'm going to make a referral fee off of another 20 agents. And wow the crazy thing about this model is every single person is on the same plan and they all want to expand their business so now I get organic compound and kind of like compound interest. So I'm getting a compound effect on my revenue share because now I've gone from two agents to 4 agents to eight agents to 12 to 24. I've expanded my revenue share business into 14 states and Canada and I just hit 84 agents and almost 30 of them hit my team in the last 60 days. So I'm now getting the organic compound effect of the duplication of what makes this lucrative revenue sharing model so amazing. Kevin: I've interviewed several independent brokers because their business owners right? They get blown away with is all of a sudden like Mitch Ryback and Florida they wake up and they're in 32 states in two provinces in Canada and they're adding more people per month than they had in their brokerage when they converted to EXP. Now you started from scratch right. You didn't convert a brokerage but for any agent listening here it doesn't matter if you're a single solo or and an agent that operates by themselves. You're a team and you're the rainmaker. You have an opportunity just to have when people ask you and I'm sure this happens right. And they like Tell me about the EXP. Why are you with EXP. You know somebody is going to listen to this podcast or other episodes and get it right. You're going to be able to have people have an understanding of the reality of EXP and to tie this down. From the standpoint of my comment earlier in the down markets right there is a several franchise systems including a very large one that operates on profit share. The regional owners and I'll speak to Gene-Frederic and his partners in Northern California. We're making a enormous amount of money in that 0 8 0 9 downturn. Most of the market centers we're not profitable for obvious reasons right. People's production were down however... because it's paid off the top the regional owners were making money like they were printing money and they felt guilty frankly about it. If you ever hear Gene interviewed about it he talks about the fact that they felt fairly guilty about the fact that if you're out there and you're thinking that it's all about profit share that's your reality check. We are going to go through another business cycle correction and you're going to see that when something is paid off the bottom at a profit. There's nothing wrong with that. It works. I'm invested removed partner. I was at Kellems for more than three years so to speak. And so I'm vested. I get paid profit share every month. So does Gene-Frederic. So do plenty of people. Now the difference is we're now comparing revenue share the profit share and it's a completely different model revenue share. Just to make it really easy is paid off the top like original owner. Like. I described earlier. Ian: And it's 100 % transparent. Kevin: It's very predictable. In other words.. Ian: You know exactly how much it is you can calculate it on your own. Kevin: And you can build a business around it in other words you've got to look at it like Ian talked about if you've got 80 people you've got 100 people if you've got like Pat Hays you have 800 people. You can predict very accurately. But here's what I expect at a minimum I'm going to make. And usually the numbers end up higher than what people are estimating. So let me ask you this before we wrap up today if somebody is listening to this and they want to do some due diligence obviously they can listen to this or any of the other episodes they can click on the link and watch that seven minute intro video that's in the show notes. What would you advise them to do as far as due diligence to really understand what the EXP is about. Ian: I would just refer you to some Web sites like you can really learn about the company. Number one is we're a publicly traded company right. That's one of the big game changers about this and why Glenn Sanford created this because he wanted everyone that was contributing to the growth of the company to be an owner and to be rewarded with it. So EXP world Holdings Inc. Is the site that you can do your due diligence and you can see our balance sheet. You can see everything about the company we're very very transparent. That's number one and that's the myth that everybody that's listening maybe for the first time or have heard something negative from someone else about the company like just forget all that. Do your due diligence were a publicly traded company EXPworldholdings.com The next thing that I would say is maybe we could take him over to the cloud side so they can see the training schedule they can see the agent handbook at EXPCloud.com. That's what I like to refer people to you know if you scroll down on that site you can see the agent handbook and you can read this and you can see exactly what the financial model is. And you can read through it. There it is it's right there in PDF form you can download it you can read it all the contact information for everybody in the company not everybody as far as the agent count goes. But now it's got Vicki in there it's got Jason Guessing in there. It's got you know Glenn its got their e-mail addresses in there. Everybody in this company is 100 % transparent. That's the great thing that I love about it so EXPCloud.com that you can see the agent handbook there. Kevin: Excellent.. which are the two suggestions I would give. I also would like to state this and I know that we're going to get your contact information before we wrap up. And when you're introduced to EXP the person that introduces you to EXP can get you in touch with Ian or anybody else or any of the people you interviewed on this podcast ask for references if that's what you need as far as your due diligence. There may be somebody that's from the same franchise you are with that you can chat with maybe you've never met them maybe you admire them and you respect them completely. That is the culture. As owners of this business that's also not apparent from the outside. In other words he and I'm sure you've had this happen we're all of a sudden you have somebody that needs to chat with somebody that's in another part of the country you reach out and say Hey John this person is from the same franchise that you were with. They want to talk with you. The answer I found 100 % is yes sent them my way and I'll be happy. Yeah. And it's not that clear from the outside. And so now with that even if somebody listens to this and they want to chat with you a little bit more directly what's the best way to reach you. Ian: I mean best way to reach me is by text at 214 2131 737 and I'm in the Dallas market. This is my backyard and I've had a lot of fun. I still do tons of fix and flips I actually have some pretty huge renovations that I document put on Facebook and LinkedIn and stuff like that and I invite people to come out and check them out when I'm done. Kevin: Fantastic. Appreciate you coming on the show. Ian: Thanks buddy. Thank you.