Podcasts about m365

Hosted by David Cowen | Careers and the Business of Law David Cowen sits down with Bobby Malhotra, litigation partner and chair of Winston's eDiscovery and Information Governance practice, member of the firm's AI strategy group, and founding member of Legal Data Intelligence. Bobby sits at the intersection of eDiscovery, digital forensics, cross-border data, privacy, cybersecurity, information governance, and AI governance, bringing a rare combination of legal judgment, technical fluency, and hands-on curiosity. This conversation covers why AI governance has arrived, why information governance is making a comeback, and why the next generation of legal professionals will need to become tech-and-data lawyers.   WHY THIS MATTERS? AI governance is no longer a future issue. It is already here. Companies are dealing with employee use of public AI tools, data exposure, privacy risk, cybersecurity concerns, regulatory pressure, AI policies, privilege questions, AI transcription, and AI-related incidents. For lawyers and legal professionals, this is one of the clearest career white spaces in the market. KEY TAKEAWAYS AI governance has arrived. It is already one of the hottest and busiest areas in the legal industry. AI governance is about vision, guardrails, policies, ethical obligations, legal obligations, regulatory compliance, and business risk. Information governance is the backbone of AI governance. You cannot govern AI if you do not know where your data lives. Data governance sits inside AI governance, and may be the most important part of the whole program. The legal role is expanding, not shrinking. AI governance and data governance are creating new career lanes across law firms, corporate legal departments, privacy, cybersecurity, eDiscovery, and legal operations. You do not need 20 years of AI governance experience. No one really has that. Curiosity, teachability, issue-spotting, and legal judgment matter more. The best professionals in this space combine legal thinking with technical literacy. It is not just about knowing the tools. It is about applying the law to the facts, the technology, and the risk. AI governance is not just about models anymore. It now includes privilege protection, AI transcription, employee AI usage, public AI tools, data exposure, and AI-related breach scenarios. Outside counsel and in-house teams both have a role. Some companies rely heavily on outside counsel, while others use outside counsel for strategy, policy review, sanity checks, regulatory guidance, and high-risk questions. If you want to build a career in this space, get comfortable being uncomfortable. Follow the law. Follow the technology. Find mentors. Set up news alerts. Stay close to communities like LDI and IAPP. PEOPLE MENTIONED David Cowen - Host Bobby Malhotra - Litigation Partner; Chair of eDiscovery and Information Governance; AI Strategy Group Member; Founding Member of Legal Data Intelligence Melanie Prevost - Referenced in connection with career creation and emerging opportunities Malcolm Gladwell - Referenced in connection with the 10,000-hour rule COMPANIES & ORGANIZATIONS MENTIONED Winston - Bobby's firm Legal Data Intelligence / LDI - Community and framework for legal data professionals IAPP - AI governance and privacy education resource CLOC, ILTA, SOLID - Legal operations, innovation, and business of law communities M365, SharePoint, cloud platforms, data lakes, and metadata - Referenced as examples of where organizational data lives Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, California, and Texas - Referenced in connection with emerging AI legislation EU AI Act - Referenced in connection with AI regulatory obligations NAIC - Referenced in connection with AI guidance in the insurance industry New York DFS - Referenced in connection with regulated financial institutions

Microsoft Build 2026 announced an end-to-end agentic AI stack. COMPUTEX Taipei confirmed heterogeneous AI infrastructure across ARM, Marvell, Intel, Qualcomm, and NVIDIA. Alphabet raised $80 billion. Cisco Live repositioned the network as the AI platform. Patrick Moorhead and Daniel Newman break it all down alongside earnings from Broadcom, HPE, Palo Alto Networks, and CrowdStrike, plus the token cost conversation, the edge AI push, and what Palantir and Oracle are saying about proprietary data as the real AI moat. The handpicked topics for this week are: Microsoft Build 2026 Announced an End-to-End Agentic AI Stack: Microsoft shipped MAI-Thinking-1, its first homegrown thinking model, alongside Scout, Microsoft IQ, Project Solara, and a Majorana 2 quantum update targeting a 2029 commercial timeline with claims of a 1,000x reliability gain. Pat describes MAI-Thinking-1 as likely better than Sonnet 4.6 in blind testing and delivering close to GPT 5.5 quality at a far lower cost. Scout is Microsoft's first autopilot agent, anchoring the M365 Agent Suite with Office Pilot Agent Mode and Agent 365. Microsoft IQ serves as the context layer, integrating M365, business data, boundary IQ, and web IQ with GitHub Copilot, Foundry, and Copilot Studio. Project Solara is a new Android-based platform built for agent-first devices across transportation, retail, and hospital settings. Microsoft also added 83 Unix commands to the Windows stack. Dan frames Microsoft's real play as distribution, not frontier model development, noting that the open model ecosystem being pulled into the platform will matter more to CFOs managing token costs at scale. (The Decode) The AI Stack Goes Multi-Silicon — COMPUTEX Taipei 2026 Confirms Heterogeneous AI Infrastructure: ARM's AGI CPU is in production with Google moving its TPU head node to ARM, and adding Oracle and ByteDance as new customers. ARM also introduced a new switch, the TT100, and put the 51T CPO switch on stage. Marvell received a trillion-dollar company endorsement from Jensen Huang, adding $90 billion in market cap on the comment alone. Intel announced disaggregated inference details and Xeon 6+ Clearwater Forest, its first 18A data center processor. Vista Equity and Cambium Capital announced a NeoCloud called Vector Core Compute, with Xeon 6 handling orchestration, Salmonova RUs handling decode, and Blackwell GPUs handling pre-fill. Qualcomm's Cristiano Amon announced the Dragonfly data center brand with Snapdragon C details coming at their June investor day. The WSTS raised the 2026 semiconductor TAM forecast by 90% to $1.51 trillion, with Pat noting the market could hit a trillion dollars if memory is excluded entirely. (The Decode) NVIDIA RTX Spark and the Edge AI Push: NVIDIA coordinated with ARM and Microsoft around the RTX Spark at COMPUTEX, with the shared message being that the future of Windows is here. Signal65's Ryan Shrout asked Jensen directly why NVIDIA wants to be in the PC business, given low margins and diminishing returns. Dan frames the answer in the context of devices increasingly becoming mobile data centers, capable of running models at much greater efficiency than cloud delivery. The edge AI conversation is also directly tied to token cost economics: as intelligence delivery moves closer to the device, the cost per token drops significantly. The jury is still out on whether NVIDIA will meaningfully disrupt the PC market, but its influence over OEMs like Lenovo and Dell that depend on it for data center gives it real leverage over SKUs. (The Decode) Token Economics and Frontier Model Cost Pressure: Dan and Pat discuss a substantive shift in how enterprises are thinking about AI consumption costs. Dan argues that "token maxing," the practice of defaulting to the most powerful frontier model for every task, has now effectively peaked, as bills have come due at scale. Companies paying for tokens in volume are starting to question whether they can afford the prices that frontier models actually cost to deliver. Pat pushes back, saying the dynamic is still present, but both analysts agree that the market is moving toward a model where token selection is matched to the job, with Microsoft's MOE approach and thinking models positioned to help CFOs manage that economics story. (The Decode) Continuum Goes Public at Highest Valuation for an AI Platform: Dan notes that Continuum, the Honeywell-spawned quantum company, went public this week at what he calls the highest valuation for an AI platform to date. He flags that IonQ will likely contest that characterization. The broader context is Microsoft entering the quantum conversation with Majorana 2 at Build, a name that has largely been absent from the quantum race, while IBM has received most of the attention. (The Decode) AI CapEx Has Outgrown Cash Flow — Alphabet's $80 Billion Equity Raise: On June 1, Alphabet announced an $80 billion equity capital raise, upsized to $85 billion, structured as $40 billion ATM, $30 billion underwritten, and a $10 billion private placement with Berkshire Hathaway anchoring. Pat frames the questions over CapEx returns as entirely dependent on whether you are an AI boomer or a doomer: if the payback comes, the raise is the right move. If it does not, the math doesn't close. Dan argues the investment is existential, drawing parallels to how infrastructure-first companies have always spent ahead of monetization, and notes that Google's equity is being used as a capital engine that may be more efficient than the debt markets right now. Both analysts flag the downstream implications for Broadcom, MediaTek, and Marvell given the TPU connection. (The Decode) The Network Becomes the AI Platform: Cisco Live 2026: Cisco launched Silicon One P200, the Secure AI Factory with NVIDIA and Spectrum X, AgenticOps, MCP-native automation, Cisco IQ, LiveProtect, and folded Astrix Security and Galileo into Splunk under one control plane. Pat identifies Cisco Cloud Control as the biggest announcement of the entire show, pulling together Catalyst, Meraki, Nexus, Firewall, and WebEx under agentic ops that run natively through MCP, with code running directly on smart switches that have x86 processors. Pat also credits Cisco for establishing Silicon One as a credible chip alternative for hyperscalers capable of taking on Tomahawk and Jericho. Dan frames the long-term opportunity as campus and branch enablement when industrial AI and robotics deployments accelerate, arguing that the numerator of AI's economic impact has barely started, as edge deployment spending has not yet begun. (The Decode) The Flip: Did Microsoft Build 2026 Effectively End the OpenAI Partnership? Pat argues the divorce decree has been filed. MAI-Thinking-1 was built with zero distillation from third-party models offering clean enterprise data lineage, with Maia 200 in production plus Anthropic chip supply, which signals vendor hedging. OpenAI is going all-in on AWS, which means you cannot be married to two people, and the full Build stack covering model, OS containment via MXC, agents via Scout and Agent 365, and context via Microsoft IQ removes every architectural dependency on OpenAI. Dan counters that Microsoft is hedging rather than leaving and predicts the partnership will run through the decade. Enterprise Copilot customers are explicitly showing in data that they demand GPT 5.5, internal benchmarks have not been independently validated, and Microsoft stands to make meaningful money from the OpenAI IPO. (The Flip) Broadcom Q2 FY26 Earnings: Broadcom posted revenue of $22.19 billion, a narrow miss depending on which consensus data set is used, with EPS of $2.44 beating estimates and AI semis at $10.8 billion. Hock Tan declined to raise the $100 billion full-year AI chip target, and the stock dropped 13% in premarket trading. Q3 guide came in at $29.4 billion. Pat calls the miss a timing issue driven by Google's multi-sourcing across Marvell, MediaTek, and Broadcom rather than a fundamental problem. Dan flags that Hock Tan opened the earnings call by accidentally reading from the 2025 print, calling it "not the best moment." Sell-side re-ratings held in the 500s across Jefferies, Mizuho, and Deutsche Bank despite the drop, with Futurum Equities having it at 600. (Bulls and Bears) Hewlett Packard Enterprise Q2 FY26 Earnings: HPE delivered revenue of $10.68 billion, up 40% year over year, and EPS of $0.79, up 100%. Juniper integration and AI servers both outperformed, and all FY26 guides were raised. The stock jumped 19% after hours before settling into a roughly 15% gain, with HPE up 68% over the last month. Pat frames HPE as a value play rather than a volume play, methodically targeting enterprise and sovereign cloud deals where it can maintain profitability, rather than competing for massive NeoCloud volume. Antonio Neri was clear on the call that the profitability pull-forward is a one-shot deal. Pat and Dan will both be at HPE Discover the week after next to interview Neri and the C-suite. (Bulls and Bears) Palo Alto Networks Q3 FY26 Earnings: Palo Alto posted revenue of $3.0 billion, up 31% year over year, beating the $2.94 billion estimate, with non-GAAP EPS of $0.85, beating the $0.79 to $0.81 range. NGS ARR reached $8.1 billion, up 60% year over year, including $1.6 billion from CyberArk and Chronosphere. RPO hit $18.4 billion, up 36%. Both FY26 revenue and EPS guides were raised. Adjusted FCF margin came in at 38.5% TTM, up 430 basis points. The stock jumped 11% immediately after hours, then drifted lower. Pat points to 2,200 platformized customers and 120% net retention as the most important metrics. Dan notes the SaaSpocalypse thesis continues to be wrong. (Bulls and Bears) CrowdStrike Q1 FY27 Earnings and the Proprietary Data Moat Argument: CrowdStrike posted revenue of $1.39 billion with EPS of $1.10 and ARR of $5.51 billion. Net new ARR of $255.8 million set a Q1 record, up 32% year over year. FY27 net new ARR guide was raised by $52 million to a $1.29 billion midpoint, and FY27 revenue was raised to $5.915 to $5.959 billion. A 4-for-1 stock split was announced effective July 2nd. The stock dropped 11% despite the beat after a 64% year-to-date run into earnings. Dan uses the results to make a broader argument against the software disruption thesis, referencing Palantir CEO Alex Karp daring customers to build without him using Anthropic or OpenAI, and Larry Ellison's argument that the real AI value unlock sits in proprietary enterprise data that is not accessible to frontier models. Enterprises with governed, secure, proprietary data will continue to need platforms like CrowdStrike regardless of what frontier models can do. (Bulls and Bears) Six Five Summit is coming. Salesforce CEO Mark Benioff will kick off the event. Register and stay current at sixfivemedia.com/summit. Watch the full video at sixfivemedia.com, and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode.   The Decode Microsoft Declares Independence — Build 2026 Ships an End-to-End Agentic AI Stack (MAI-Thinking-1 + Scout + Microsoft IQ + Project Solara + Majorana 2) https://www.theverge.com/tech/941738/microsoft-build-2026-biggest-announcements The AI Stack Goes Multi-Silicon — Computex 2026 Confirms a Heterogeneous AI Infrastructure (ARM + Marvell + Intel ASIC + Qualcomm + RTX Spark); WSTS Raises 2026 Semi TAM Forecast 90% to $1.51T https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/computex AI Capex Has Outgrown Cash Flow — Alphabet's $80B Equity Raise Is the Largest in U.S. Corporate History; Berkshire Anchors $10B https://abc.xyz/investor/news/news-details/2026/Alphabet-Announces-Proposed-80-Billion-Equity-Capital-Raise-to-Expand-AI-Infrastructure-and-Compute-2026-b0myAMewCa/default.aspx The Network Becomes the AI Platform — Cisco Live 2026 Launches Silicon One P200, Secure AI Factory (with NVIDIA), AgenticOps, Astrix Security + Galileo https://www.cisco.com/site/us/en/about/whats-new/index.html The Flip Did Microsoft Build 2026 Effectively End the OpenAI Partnership? MAI-Thinking-1 Beats Sonnet 4.6 in Blind Testing, Microsoft Claims GPT-5.5 Parity at 10x Cost Efficiency — Will MS Quietly Wind Down OpenAI Exclusivity by FY28, or Is OpenAI Still the Frontier Anchor Microsoft Needs?   FOR:  MAI-Thinking-1 beating Sonnet 4.6 in blind preference + GPT-5.5 parity at 10x cost efficiency is a frontier-model independence proof point https://www.latent.space/p/ainews-microsoft-build-mai-thinking Build 2026: Accumulating Evidence of Microsoft's AI Independence — EDN (June 4) — https://www.edn.com/build-2026-accumulating-evidence-of-microsofts-ai-independence/ Maia 200 in production + Anthropic-Maia chip talks signal Microsoft is hedging its inference vendor stack https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2026/01/26/maia-200-the-ai-accelerator-built-for-inference/ Microsoft canceled Anthropic's internal software licenses + pivoted to chip-supply pursuit — customer-not-competitor positioning https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/21/anthropic-microsoft-maia-200-ai-chip.html   AGAINST:  Enterprise Copilot customers explicitly demand GPT-5.5 — internal benchmarks don't replace the brand https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/copilot/release-notes?tabs=all MAI-Thinking-1 benchmarks haven't been third-party verified — Microsoft is the only source https://www.latent.space/p/ainews-microsoft-build-mai-thinking The MS-OpenAI partnership is contractual through 2030+ — unwinding it is impractical and expensive https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2026/04/27/the-next-phase-of-the-microsoft-openai-partnership/ Microsoft's actual strategic risk is OpenAI leaving, not MS leaving — Anthropic + OpenAI IPOs make OpenAI exit risk the real concern https://www.anthropic.com/news/confidential-draft-s1-sec Bulls & Bears Broadcom (AVGO) Q2 FY26 ACTUALS — Rev $22.19B (Narrow Miss) + EPS $2.44 (Beat); AI Semis $10.8B; Hock Tan Refuses to Raise the $100B Full-Year AI Chip Target — Stock −13% Premarket; Q3 Guide $29.4B https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/03/broadcom-avgo-earnings-report-q2-2026.html Hewlett Packard Enterprise (HPE) Q2 FY26 ACTUALS — Blowout: Rev $10.68B (+40%), EPS $0.79 (+100%); Juniper Integration + AI Servers Both Outperform; FY26 Guides All Raised; Stock +19% AH https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260601866494/en/HPE-Reports-Fiscal-2026-Second-Quarter-Results Palo Alto Networks (PANW) Q3 FY26 ACTUALS — Beat-and-Raise: Rev $3.0B (+31% YoY, Beat $2.94B), Non-GAAP EPS $0.85 (Beat $0.79-0.81); NGS ARR $8.1B (+60% YoY, $1.6B from CyberArk + Chronosphere); RPO $18.4B (+36%); FY26 Revenue + EPS Guides BOTH RAISED; Adj FCF Margin 38.5% TTM (+430 bps); Stock +11% Immediate AH, Then Drifted Lower https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/company/press/2026/palo-alto-networks-reports-fiscal-third-quarter-2026-financial-results CrowdStrike narrowly beats estimates on AI tailwinds, but stock falls 9% — CNBC (June 3) — https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/03/crowdstrike-crwd-q1-2027-earnings.html  

Join me as I unpack the most impactful Microsoft Build 2026 announcements for SMBs, including Work IQ's general availability, new autopilot and Scout agent features, enhanced agent security with Microsoft Execution Containers, and the latest MAI models for code, image, and voice. Discover how upcoming Work IQ APIs, OpenClaw integration with Windows, and the shift toward hybrid AI solutions are shaping the future of business technology, with practical insights on cost control, disaster recovery, and agentic security. Don't miss this episode for actionable takeaways and expert analysis on the evolving AI landscape. Resources CIAOPS Need to Know podcast - CIAOPS - Need to Know podcasts | CIAOPS X - https://www.twitter.com/directorcia director@ciaops.com CIAOPS Blog Join my Teams Shared Channel – CIAOPS CIAOPS Merch store - CIAOPS Become a CIAOPS Patron CIAOPS AI Dojo  CIAOPS weekly news update - CIA Brief – CIAOPS CIAOPS Labs – The Special Activities Division of the CIAOPS Support CIAOPS Get your M365 questions answered via email Join my email list A special thanks to the CIAOPS Patron community for making this podcast possible. You can find the benefits of a subscription to the community and become a member at https://www.ciaopspatron.com   Microsoft Build 2026 blog – Be yourself at work Developer-Tech – AI agents, Copilot, Windows developer tools VentureBeat – AI agents and enterprise use cases Thurrott – Scout personal work agent and AI models VentureBeat – Data silos and Microsoft IQ Windows Report – Securing code agents and AI models Engadget – Build 2026 live blog Microsoft Learn – Work IQ in Azure Foundry Firstpost – MXC, OpenClaw, and OpenShell

We've informally heard that Satya is a listener to LS for a couple years now, but it was still absolutely surreal to meet him and do a live pod at Build, together with our friends at No Priors, the leading VC AI Podcast that we also greatly admire!We covered the MAI model technical takeaways on yesterday's AINews, so I will focus our recap of Satya's main messages around three elements:* Satya's adaptation of the Bill Gates Line for positioning Microsoft as the Frontier Intelligence Platform — customers must gain much more value from the Microsoft ecosystem than Microsoft itself, by building on multi-model harnesses like OpenClaw and Scout, drawing on the full enterprise context exposed by context layers like Work IQ (heavily dogfooded by his C-suite), and building up private evals and traces as a new form of Token IP* AI ROI: On one hand, enterprises are having difficult conversations around Tokenmaxxing and Layoffs, and on the other hand, there are serious re-evaluations of the End of SaaS since the Build vs Buy equation has changed so much. Our previous SemiAnalysis guest had… interesting comments on Microsoft's position on this as the ur-SaaS titan, and Satya had great answers* Making the Impossible Possible: Kevin Scott's inspiring framing around what the most ambitious version of applying AI and technology at large to business and social problems, like education and social impact.Enjoy!Full VideoTranscriptVoiceover: Welcome swyx, Sarah Guo, Elad Gil,, and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Microsoft, Satya NadellaSarah Guo: Welcome to a crossover episode of No Priors and Lane Space with Satya Nadella. Um, congratulations on an amazing build. No, thank you so much, and it's great to be with both of you. I listen to both of you or b- both the podcasts all the time. It's great to be on it.Thank you so much. [00:01:00] So you're just talking about, um, these amazing, uh, announcements from across the Microsoft estate all morning for, I think, three hours. What is the, uh, what's the most important reflection or takeaway you have?AI as an Ecosystem PlatformSarah Guo: I, I'd say there are, uh, perhaps the, the biggest one for me is let's sort of conceptualize this more as an ecosystem play as opposed to a single model or even a single platform, right?Satya Nadella: I mean, you know, whatever I... At least for me, having grown up at Microsoft, having seen, whatever, four major platform shifts, uh, I sort of fall into that, um, uh, camp where a platform is defined by fundamentally its ability to create more value about the platform versus what's captured in the platform. And so if you, you view what's happening right now, I think this morning's keynote was how can any company, whether it's an AI native company or a traditional enterprise company, participate as a first-class participant where they can point to AI they created, [00:02:00] right?It's not that they don't use other people's AI. Of course they will. But to me, what's the path? What's the recipe? How do I do it? What does a stack look like? What does the tooling look like? What is valuable? How do you do that? That's it. That's sort of our job to do. Yeah. Ecosystem strategy is, uh, very complicated, right?Sarah Guo: Because you end up building certain components, partnering for certain components, supporting them. You just announced this big suite of models. Like, tell us a little bit about the, uh, training strategy for Microsoft now. Yeah.MAI Models & Training StrategySarah Guo: So, so the thing that we wanted to do with the MAI models was to build, and as Mustafa talked about, first of all, a great lineage, right?Satya Nadella: Starting with pre-training, uh, with very good data quality, uh, doing all the ablations, making sure because in, in some sense it's becoming even harder to build a clean lineage model just because there's so much stuff out there, uh, that you truly need to ablate out to be able to have a fantastic [00:03:00] pre-trained model.In fact, that's one of the challenges of a lot of the open weight models is they look great on one benchmark or two, but they're not great on practice. So that's why, in fact, even in the RFDEs are, they, they are pretty gone really excited about these MAI models because how the heck can a small five B model hill climb?Uh, and it goes back a little bit to what I think is ultimately the key thing to do, which is try to pursue finding that cognitive core. Uh, so to me, starting with a clean lineage- Then creating that ability for companies to be able to use this, right? Not just as a generalist, but to create their own specialist by building this hill climbing scaffold around it, right?So it's not just the model, but you have a hill climb scaffold around it, then you will start building your RLE. You will start collecting the traces. Most importantly, you'll have private evals because we know all the evals out there are good, interesting, [00:04:00] but they're not really that critical- They're work, yeahSwyx: at this point because they all can be maxed. And so the point is each company will have its own private eval. And so that end-to-end platform story around our models is sort of, uh, what I think is interesting. And then the one other thing, Sarah, since you brought that up, is I do feel there's a new frontier.Satya Nadella: Like people talk about the frontier and are you operating at the frontier. Um, interestingly enough, if you add a little temporality to it, you can use, let's say, in, in, in fact, the, the Lando Lakes demo we showed was pretty cool. We used, whatever, GPT-55, right? Then you collected a bunch of traces, and then you took a 5B reasoning model and achieved higher.Sarah Guo: Uh, so that is another aspect of what it means to appear... uh, you know, operate at the frontier Yeah. I, I think, uh, I first of all have to congratulate you on basically building a frontier neo lab inside of Microsoft in two years. Um, I'm wondering, you know, you have all this AI strategy that you're rolling out.Lessons from Two Years of AI DevelopmentSwyx: I'm wondering, what do you know now that you wish you would tell yourself two years ago where- or two or [00:05:00] three years ago? Three years for the Jensen partnership, two years for, uh, MEI. Yeah, I mean, I think the, the thing when, that I reflect quite a bit, right, which is sort of obviously I got into all this when I got excited by the, the scaling laws paper and, you know, when, you know, even the OpenAI partnership came about when those folks said, “Hey, we're gonna really throw a lot of computer transformers.”Satya Nadella: Uh, and they've helped. I- the thing that I always look back and say, “Wow, these things, uh, do have capability that they're climbing up.” W- I mean, this, you know, this crude way of saying it is intelligence is log of compute kind of works. Now what I think we underestimated perhaps is the real-world complexity of deploying these so that they actually deliver the value in the real world, right?So the outcomes as measured by any benchmark is interestingly important, but the true eval is when people out there are able to do unique things that they only can value, and it's very [00:06:00] measurable, right? That I wish we had sort of even, like, had more in our consciousness, right? Which is as an industry.Sarah Guo: Because right now I think when people say, “Wow, I don't want a token max,” it's an artifact of us not having thought ourselves as an industry that we are using tokens to create value every step of the way. So I think that's kind of what I wish we had gotten there, but I'm glad we are here.Real-World Value & Use CasesSarah Guo: What are some of the use cases that you've seen that have created the most value for your customers?Because I know that people talk a lot about code, and I think it's pretty clear that that's something that's having very large scale impact. Are there other areas that you find in common that your customers are really benefiting from? Yeah. I think, yeah, to your point, obviously coding is now got... But it's interesting, by the way, Elijah, to even talk about the coding, right?Satya Nadella: Which is coding has worked so well that we now have to rebuild the IDE, right? I mean, it's kind of nuts to see what we sh- launched is like, oh my God, I have these hundred agent sessions. I... The cognitive load it transfers back to me as a human is so [00:07:00] excessive that now I need a new UI. Uh, oh, by the way, I, like the, the chat as the only artifact was also impossible, so that's why we need a canvas.So it's kind of interesting for all the things about where is software needed or where is UI needed, uh, you kind of need that even for code, right? In a fully agentic world. But that said, one of the things that we are starting to see, we started seeing with co-work, but even some of the work we, we showed with auto com- uh, um, autopilot Right on what you see with claws is a good one because if you sort of think about a lot of human capital is doing the glue work, right?If you now can augment that with tokens/agents that are long-running, durable, right, then your ability to scale even what is still judgment and glue work gets amplified like coding does. Uh, so you can... Like, I'm positive that six months from now we'll all be saying, “Oh, wow,” like, all through ni- the night there was a bunch of stuff that [00:08:00] all these autopilots that I have working on my behalf with my delegated authority, so to speak, right?I can... Sort of given even my identity, did a bunch of work, then of course I'll need my new ADE to say, “Well, what did you do?” Like, I might... “Did I do this work?” And so on. So I think that that's where compressing of workflows, uh, completing of tasks, uh, that's where I think a lot of the value gets created. I think you raised a really interesting point, which is there's the actual agent that's doing the code, and then there's a harness around it, and that's the environment, that's the context, that's everything you're setting up as a developer around actually a coding agent.The Harness Concept for Enterprise AISarah Guo: What is the harness for the enterprise? Is there an equivalent concept for broader productivity work, or how do you think about that concept sort of generalized? That's right. So, so in some sense you kind of want the harness to define the models, the, the data, uh, and the tools, and so that you have a loop across those three.Satya Nadella: And so what we are trying to, first of all, make sure is each of our products that we build, right, whether it's GitHub Copilot or the security copi- the, the [00:09:00] stuff we showed with MDASH or even the discovery for science, it doesn't matter, all of them are multi-model harnesses, um, with tools access so that you can do this progressive, uh, disclosure of tools even so that they're token efficient.Uh, and then you're feeding it with very rich context because that's sort of the other hard lesson we have learned in the last two years is, oh my God, the amount of work you need to do to prep the context layer, uh, such that your plan can execute in the most efficient way is where the magic is. So we have, in our case, we have the GitHub harness, which essentially we're using across all our products.It's available in Foundry, and we are open, like you can use your Llama harness, whatever. Or you can use the, um, uh, you know, any open harness or any harness of yours and train with your tools and multiple models and your context. And so that's the pitch. Because right now a lot of dialogue is, um, “Hey, if I train the harness plus tools and the model together, you get [00:10:00] evals.”Elad Gil: And what we are proving out is... And the best example of that is what we did with MDASH, right? Because when it launched, uh, it found bugs or vulnerabilities that were not found by Mythos Uh, and so there is existence proof, I would claim, that you can have a multimodal harness, uh, that can in fact be more, uh, performant in the real world So a premise behind the, uh, training at the independent frontier labs is really, you know, we're gonna have these models, and we'll have an API business, and we'll support enterprises and startups.Sarah Guo: ButPlatform Strategy & Developer EcosystemSarah Guo: a first-party product, be it productivity or code or search, drives the majority of revenue. That's a different value equation than you're describing, I think, with the Microsoft ecosystem. Uh, if, if that's the case, tell me if it's the case, uh, ‘cause obviously you have first-party products and you have enablement products.Satya Nadella: Um, what is the role of the develop- Like what is gonna be hard and the set of skills and the value capture the developer has in that world? Yeah. So I think that there's always [00:11:00] gonna be the case that someone who is super successful in- as a platform builder can also have first-party products. It was true with Windows.It is true, uh, with, uh, the, the SaaS side and the cloud side as well with us and others and so on. But the thing that is, is it should not be a limiter to other people achieving that same success, right? That I think is the core difference, which is the, the network effects this time around, around intelligence are such because they learn from data, and not really lots of data.It's just a few samples that you have to see to understand what's novel about something. So that's why the game becomes how to protect. So that's why I would say every company, having private evals may be the biggest IP, right? Think about it, like what's that private eval that you can then use even a frontier model to hill climb on and not leak the traces may be one of the biggest [00:12:00] drivers, uh, of IP.Like, so in other words, another te- acid test is you have an eval that's private. You're using, uh, a g- a Model A. Can you switch it to Model B and e- you know, climb up? If you can, then you're in control. If you can't, you're not in control, and that's where even the harness decision becomes super important, right?swyx So therefore, having an open harness, letting all models come in, having your evals, your context, your tools help you hill climb, I think is the skills that an AI native startup needs, a SaaS company needs, or every enterprise needs. Yeah, I think in, in a very real way you are ... Microsoft historically is an operating systems company and th- then become a cloud company.Maybe like the third act is that you're a harness or evals company. Whatever w- ... whatever the, the sort of conglomerate of concepts that you wanna put together. Um, and, and I think like enabling every company to have like frontier intelligence or what- what- Yeah ... I forget the, the [00:13:00] exact term that you used, um, is the, is the mission, right?Satya Nadella: That's it. Like that is, that is the platform promise, that you build with us, you will get your intelligence, uh, for your data. That's it. That ... To, to me, that is the ... Like if there was one tagline, uh, for this entire developer conference is- Can everybody operate at the frontier with their frontier intelligence, right?To me, that is so important because otherwise it, I, I don't know how you achieve stable equilibrium, right? Which is how do I then go and say, “Well, my company is gonna have a terminal value because I now know how to continuously compound-” Yeah ... on top of what's a platform that gets better,” right? So when, like Windows obviously came out, Adobe built, Autodesk built, uh, or even like take what Jensen said.We built DX and he built, you know, CUDA on top of it. Um, right? I mean, I always say to Jensen, “God, I got the short end of that,” right? “I wish, uh, we had recognized it.” But nevertheless, but that, that idea that you can build a platform layer [00:14:00] that someone else can then extend out, um, and build their own intelligence layer in this case, I think is everything, right?Without it, why have a developer conference? I can just come and have you all sort of just worship at the altar of one model. Yeah. But that's not a developer conference. Uh,IP, Evals & Company Valueswyx: backstage we, we had a discussion about what is IP or what is the, the value in a company. It used to be the length of, uh, human experience at a company, and now it's this other thing which is the evals, the, uh, experience in sort of applying agents to the company. Can you... I just want you to like flesh that out a bit more ‘cause- Yeah ... it was very insightful.Satya Nadella: It's a great way to frame it, right? Because yeah, at the end of the day, every company is gonna have both the human capital that is still gonna be super valuable, uh, because humans, uh, and their ability to find the gaps that exist at all times is going to be the way we all will create value, right?I mean, so I'm definitely in the camp that this is going to be about expressing new forms of human agency and ambition even as token capital goes up, right? So let's say a cor- any corporation [00:15:00] has lots of tokens and lot of human capital. The question is how do you compound the two? So if you have a... Like if you take in Teams I have a bunch of agents doing work and a bunch of humans doing work, and the traces between those, that is really important context of how that enterprise is creating value.Then that goes back to train not a generalist model, but to train the company veteran agent, uh, right? That is super valuable again, right? Which is when a company goes says, “It should in fact go onto the balance sheet,” is how I think about it, right? That's so... In fact, there may be... Like human capital was never possible to go put on a balance sheet, uh, because you didn't know how to capture the tacit knowledge.swyx: Whereas now I think you can with the agents that have learned through the h- through, through time, through all the traces. Uh, so that's what at least we think will happen. I, I think the SEC is gonna have to have accounting standards- ... for token, uh, expertise Uh, y- y- you're talking about the equilibrium [00:16:00] state, um, and a stable equilibrium where companies have this compounding value and can see terminal value for themselves.Future of SaaS & Business ModelsSarah Guo: Another challenge to, you know, the considered equilibrium of, okay, there are applications and workflows that are sort of common to a vertical or a horizontal. Um, and this was, like, the generation of SaaS companies and, you know, Microsoft has lots of SaaS properties as well. And then there are things that are very specific to every enterprise that they're differentiated against.Elad Gil: Um, I'm sure you have heard much and participate in much of the debate about the end of software because all these workflows are, are cheap to generate now. Um, do you think the equilibrium looks different between what agents get built- Yeah ... in enterprises versus in their vendors in the future? Yeah. So I think what's happening there is, see, we, we had a particular way we captured, um, I would say workflow in apps, right?Satya Nadella: Because we built a, a data model, right? We schematized some part of some business process. Mm-hmm. We then built a bunch of business logic. Yep. And then we put a bunch of UI [00:17:00] on top of it, right? So that's kind of what every SaaS company- And a little configuration. For, like, 20, 20 years that was the plan.Right, that- Yeah ... and that was it. So interestingly enough, now you kind of get to re-litigate that vertical stacking, right? So I still think, for example, that data model that you built underneath every SaaS application is super good, right? Like, why reinvent it? Like, I, I, my general ledger better be a general ledger.I don't need new schema creation. No. Uh, in fact, that entity relationship, uh, is actually pretty good, robust thing that I want to feed. And you want it to be stable. That's right. Yeah. Then same thing with business logic, right? If, if you look at, uh... We have this product called Power BI, right? It is like dashboards galore people created.The beauty underneath that dashboard is a very rich semantic model, right? Someone took the pain to create a dashboard and do all the measures, and you want that. That's business logic, right? I want that to be available to me. So I think the [00:18:00] challenge of the SaaS business model is we packaged one way. We now have to learn how to unbundle these things and rebundle in new ways and discover new business models, right?I mean, if you look at it, d- what's happening today with Microsoft 365 is a great example, right? We have this thing called Work IQ. In fact, like, what we are realizing is, oh my God, like, you know, if you look at... In fact, there's a pa- historical parallel too, right? We sold first Exchange and SharePoint and, uh, you know, before Teams, we had a thing called Lync Server and what have you, and we thought, “Oh, that's all gonna move to the cloud.”But little did we realize that, um, the number of people who will use servers in the cloud is 10X, 100X, right? Because people were not buying servers, they were just buying a subscription. Mm-hmm. The same thing is now happening with M365 because with Work IQ, we have exposed what is perhaps the most important database in a company that never got used as a database because it was only captive to our apps.Mm-hmm. Right? It, it was all email operated on it, Teams operated [00:19:00] on it, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, SharePoint. But now, like this is one of the coo- coolest things I get to do with Work IQ. I go to a GitHub repo and I say, “Hey, I attended a bunch of design meetings last week related to this repo. Can you capture all that and tell me what changes I should make?”I mean, think about that, right? It literally can go look at all those transcripts, come back with a plan to change a code base, right? Previously, you could never have thought of using M365 for something like that. So the value creation opportunity now in the agent world is in fact 10X more, but it does require us to have...Sarah Guo: For example, there's going to be usage around M365, right? Which is going to be perhaps more than even the e- end users and we have to even re-architect. Like, in fact, like what I use to serve an inbox or a mailbox cannot be used to serve an agent. Uh, and so that's sort of what we are doing.Pricing Models: Per-User, Consumption & OutcomesSarah Guo: I don't believe in, like, permanent business models for any of these domains, but in the [00:20:00] near term, do you have a prediction between, uh, you know, outcomes-based pricing, token-based pricing?Elad Gil: Enterprise bundles Yeah. The way I- I think about this is always we've had... Like, let's even take the per-user pricing. Mm-hmm. The per-user pricing is really an artifact of someone creating a budget needing certainty, right? Because it's the most important thing. Like, somebody wants a budget- Mm-hmm ... they need a per user.Satya Nadella: And, and per user is just a set of entitlements to usage, right? That's kind of what it is. And so the way is, if the first bundling will be take some usage, bundle it into per user stacks and, you know, then sell subscriptions. So subscriptions I think are gonna be there, per user is gonna be there. Then the next big thing will be consumption.So people will say, “I want consumption.” And it's also possible that people will say, “I don't even want to pay for any of the subscriptions or the consumption's outcome.” Mm. But remember, most people love outcomes until they have an outcome, because once you have an outcome, it's like giving away royalty, [00:21:00] right?Mm. I mean, like I, I've talked to customers who love, you know, outcome-based pricing, and I say, “I'm all in,” until they, “Oh my God,” like, “what are you talking about? You're sharing in my outcome? No, no, no. I want you to go back to per-user pricing, and I want you to consumption price,” right? So I think that debate will go on.Uh, but and all, all, all of these business models have a particular time and a place versus one to rule them all. And if anything, if you're a SaaS vendor or you're a platform vendor, having that flexibility... And quite frankly, we face this with GitHub, right? We just recently announced a per-user pricing on GitHub because little, you know, we- GitHub Copilot was constructed at a per-user level before we understood even, uh, the intensity of usage of agents, right?It was an interactive way for a developer to use code complete, maybe tasks. It was not like, oh, I launched 10,000, you know, agents that are going on all day, right? So that is what the adjustment is about. So now that we really want, there will [00:22:00] always be a per user, but there will have to be a consumption meter.Durability of SaaS & Build vs BuySarah Guo: How do you think about the durability of SaaS more generally? One thing I've observed is in a lot of enterprises internally, there will be teams that almost have agent euphoria. They're so excited about the explosion of things they can build that they're trying to rebuild a lot of applications or going to their SaaS vendors and saying, “We're not gonna work with you anymore,” or, “We're considering an internal project.”And it seems like in six to nine months, maybe some of those people will come back and say, “Actually, we, we can't rebuild everything.” How do you think about what's durable in this world and what isn't? Yeah, it's a... It... I think we have to go through one full budget cycle on this to really see the, um- Uh, the sort of the emergence of the equilibrium, because at the end of the day, there's marginal cost to even generating the app, right?Elad Gil: In, in fact, there can be even a, a simple way to say it, like if you should always acquire something if the marginal cost of building and maintaining, uh, something on your own is higher. Uh, right? That should be like it's a quantifiable- Yeah. Right? A quantifiable thing. And [00:23:00] the maintenance part is important, right?Even, like you got to remember like, hey, you know, all the security stuff that now AI will find, you better fix them too fast. Uh, of course, there's a coding agent to help you with, but then that burns tokens, right? So whose responsibility is it? It's kind of like a, a cycle that you've got to think through.And I think we have gone through the excitement that I can generate a lot of software. I think the next thing would be what software do I really want to generate? Mm-hmm. What software do I want to use from others? How do I compose these two into some agentic workflow that I have agency over, right?Sarah Guo: Because I think there'll be very little tolerance for anybody who's inflexible, uh, at the vendor level. Uh, but at the same time, I think that anyone who has got that flexibility shows up, delivers the value, will be back at again, right? We're selling software, uh, but with just different business models, in fact Uh, speaking about building software, um, one of my favorite moments from, I think, a previous build maybe one or two years ago was they had a b- they, they...Swyx: There was a section of you building your [00:24:00] own software. I'm curious if you're building anything now. Yeah. So I, I think the... You know, first of all, let's face it, right? Building software has made it possible for even the incompetence of a CEO of a company- ... like ours, uh, you can build, so thank God. But that said, I, I, I, I do feel that, you know, something like, um, GitHub Copilot to me, and especially the new Sessions app or the new app, has just made it so much more possible for you to have agency over artifacts that you felt you couldn't touch before, right?Satya Nadella: So to, for me as a CEO, even to go to a code base, uh, to be able to learn about it, like I remember joining Microsoft long back, you know, first and then you say, man, everybody had to go in and look at, you know, whatever, Cutler's, Malik, or what have you to learn how to do good C, uh, C++ code. Um, so now that ability to be more full stack up and down is so good, but that doesn't mean every one of us should be doing the same thing.The question is: [00:25:00] how do you then have the ability to inspect things, learn things, see things, um, I think is just so much more. And so to me, what I'm building a lot of is these long-running Foundry agents. Uh, right? So there's autopilots. So the easiest thing is, to me, I think I just built one, uh, even last week, where the idea was, hey, can I have an agent that is continuously monitoring essentially my own chief of staff autopilot, right?We're gonna have that obviously in, uh, Scout. That's what, uh, uh, we showed. But it is so easy and trivial to build. I took Work IQ. I said, “Take Work IQ, go, uh, and build a Foundry long-running agent.” Uh, store all the memory in, um, uh, using Ray Fin, right? Basically at my backend as a service. And lo and behold, it built it, and not only built it, I could say publish to Teams, and it published the damn thing to Teams.Sarah Guo: So the ability, uh, to have a, you know, some end-to-end project like this complete is just pretty [00:26:00] miraculous. How do you think, uh,Future Engineering RolesSarah Guo: that impacts the different types of engineering roles that exist in the future? Because right now I think there's, you know, a dozen different types of engineers that you can be, from QA, front end, et cetera.You know, there's a big swath. I've heard some people argue that in four or five years we'll basically end up with four engineering roles. It'll be people who are managing agents, it'll be four deployed engineers or FDEs, it'll be security engineers, and then people working on large scale infrastructure for a small number of services, and then everything else just collapses into the agentic world.Satya Nadella: Yeah, I- Do you think that's a correct view of the world? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we'll have to experiment our way through it. But what you said is what... There are some very at scale things. At LinkedIn, they did structurally change- Mm-hmm ... uh, and it, you know, basically built up a new discipline called full stack builder, right?So they went and said, “Hey, let's bring, uh, people from design and product management, front end engineering, all put them together.” Uh, but also have an edge, right? It's not like the design person still doesn't have the design edge, or the front end [00:27:00] person doesn't have the front end edge, but you can give yourself bigger scope in roles so that you're not confined to one role.Um, and then r- equally, infrastructure has become very critical, right? So in other words, like, I mean, RLEs, I mean, one thing we've realized is even for the Excel team, for example. Mm-hmm. Building the RLE in which a reward can be learned is actually one of the hardest sort of infrastructure problems.Mm-hmm. Uh, and so you kind of need even new talent, right? Distributed systems people even in what was considered an end user app team, uh, because it's a different skill set. So yes, infrastructure, science is the other one, obviously. Um, so I think we'll see how these evolve, right? Where's the s- real... I mean, always the world will have a bunch of specialists.Okay. Um, you know, I think the generalist role is going to be the most exciting, right? Because the leverage of a generalist- Mm-hmm ... um, is where we are going to see the maximum returns, right? When, when you said, “Hey, are you coding?” I'm now a gen- Like, what... I've basically translated [00:28:00] knowledge work Right?Which I did, where I created a Word document or a spreadsheet, or even, uh... And now I can build an app, right? It's in the same sentence. Uh, right? That idea that, “Oh, wow, my generalist skills have gotten higher leverage,” I think is what we're gonna see across the board. Music to the ears of CEOs and VCs that are, like, a little dangerous and a lot of- Golden age for idea peopleSarah Guo: idea people. Yeah. Uh- With a lot of agency. I- if you take that idea of personal agency and you just zoom it out to the organizational context, um, uh, my partner Mike Renall, who, uh, actually started his career at Microsoft, just wrote an essay where one of the big takeaways is i- it's an age where you can be much more ambitious, and you need to be, given the pace of the environment and how quickly, actually, users and companies are open to adopting new technologies.Satya Nadella: Um, how do you think about... I, I feel silly asking this of somebody running a, you know, trillion-dollar-plus company already, butAmbition & Making the Impossible PossibleSatya Nadella: how do you think about how Microsoft can be more ambitious now? It's a great question. Um, I [00:29:00] think, um- I think the, the thing in these type of transitions is to have a conceptual model of how work can change to go after outcomes that you could hardly imagine previously, right?In fact, Kevin Scott has this nice line, right, which is, um, when you can make the impossible... Like, when you're making hard things easier, that's sort of one point of leverage. But true ambition is about making the impossible possible. So now the thing that is missing a little bit in all of our organizations is what is that new conceptual model of what can we build?What was impossible and what can we build? And I'll give you one example of this, right, which is I take great inspiration from sort of the people who were managing the Azure net- network. And they came to the... This was from even last year. You know, we were scaling. You saw that I, I [00:30:00] talked about sort of how we built in the last 15 months more Azure capacity than we built in the first 15 years.I mean, it's crazy. Wild. Yeah. Right? It's pretty wild. And it's the same team. So they saw that and they said, “Bob, this just ain't gonna work if we don't reconceptualize our work.” So they built... Essentially they said, “Our job is not to do Azure networking. Our job is to build the agentic system does, that, that does Azure networking,” right?These are the folks managing the 500-plus fiber operators managing the VAN, right, all over. And fiber operations ultimately is a physical operation. Things get cut, things get, uh, you know, have to be repaired. You know, we have fancy words called DevOps and so on. Basically, emails are coming in and you gotta go respond to them, take care of it.So they built this agentic system. They even have a character for it. It's called Miles, and it sort of does all this stuff, right? They started sort of screaming for more tokens and so on. And so they were saying, “Look, uh, we don't need a headcount. We need tokens in order to be able to [00:31:00] manage, uh, our operation.”That reconceptualization- Mm-hmm ... of what their work is, right? They, they basically took their work and made it meta, right? That meta work is now their new work. Mm-hmm. Right? In the ‘80s, if somebody had come to us and said, “4 billion people are gonna get up in the morning and start typing,” my model would've been, we need 4 billion typists?But we're not doing typing, we're doing knowledge work. So that, to me, I think is it, right, which is whether it's Microsoft or whether it's any organization, is to give ourselves permission to do new types of metacognition, meta work, using these new tools to change the outputs that matter, uh, and then really make the impossible possible.Sarah Guo: So completing that dot or the, the connective tissue across those, I think, is where a lot of the enterprise value will get created.Data Center Build-Out & Community ImpactSarah Guo: Should we talk about data centers? Yeah, please ask. Oh, okay. Well, uh, uh, w- we-- this leads nicely into the data center build-up. I always think, I- I just-- I'm just impressed at the sheer scale of the [00:32:00] build-out from Microsoft, but also everyone else, that this is redefining what it means to be a hyperscaler.And I just feel like that, that, that is at unprecedented scale on finances, uh, on the way you run the company, but also the communities that are, that are impacted. Um, yeah, just talk a bit more about what you're seeing on the ground, like when you visit your- Yeah, I think there are two aspects of it.Satya Nadella: Obviously, the, the build-out is, uh, extraordinary. Um, you know, nothing like this has happened, and it's great to be, uh, one of the participants in it. Uh, but you brought up the other part, right? I think at this point it's clear that unless we as an industry, uh, are very principled about ensuring that the benefits of all the stuff we're talking about are felt in real ways, uh, at the community level, right?Because this is not just a, a campaign, um, right? It has to be real, where people are saying, “Look, this is not ch- changing the prices on energy for me.” In fact, if anything, it's bringing down prices because long term there's going to be a better [00:33:00] grid, there is going to be more energy. Water consumption is, in fact, not sort of, uh...In fact, water is being replenished, right? You gotta really, you know, educate folks on truly what's happening, the cl- uh, the closed loop systems we are building. We have to invest in the training, the jobs, the tax base. In fact, the least talked about stuff is the amount of jobs that get created during construction, after construction.What's the tax base that's there in the community? And, and all this has to be real. Um, and, and if that is the case, then we will have permission. If it is not, we won't have permission. It's as simple as that, right? Which is, uh, we, we... I think we have to take it as an industry pretty seriously. Uh, I think it's good for communities to be skeptical, ask the hard questions, for us to do the hard work, earn that.Um, but at the end of the day, if there's-- if we can really be the produ-- Wait. I've always felt like in human history, if you use a lot of energy but also create a lot of value for society- The story has been fantastic. If you don't [00:34:00] do that, it's not been that great. And this time around, I'm a firm believer that ultimately if you do have a token economy that drives productivity, that drives economic growth, that drives broad spread, um, you know, participation, better health outcomes, um, then I think we'll be in a great place.Sarah Guo: Uh, and that's at least what we all have to be focused on. Yeah. It, it makes me think actually that with all these initiatives that you're doing, might be e- easier to see ROI in the communities first before in enterprise. Yeah. I, I mean, I think both sides. Yeah. In fact, it comes back together. It has to be the people in the communities are going to be employed, are going to be participants, uh, in the real economy, right?Satya Nadella: That's I think the question is. Like, if we- if the broad economy is doing well and the communities are doing well, the dots get connected. It's sort of the market forces are such that we will connect the dots. And that I think is it. Like, you ought to be able to see the evidence. You can't be about o- any one company, uh, but it has to be broad economic growth and broad [00:35:00] ec- you know, community permission.Elad Gil: Yeah. I guess I wanna talk aboutSocietal Impact & Optimism About AIElad Gil: what you're most optimistic about currently or what have you most updated your personal models on regarding societal impact of AI? So you're saying what's the, the, the- What have you updated most on in terms of societal impact of AI? Yeah. I think the, um, the p- the most, um- Critical thing is the first question we even started with, which is we need to tell the story and make it real that everybody has a real shot to participate as a first-class participant in this new economy.Satya Nadella: Right? That's kind of, I think we- in the next 12 months, 18 months, we need a way for people to say, “Oh, wow, I get it.” Right? There's going to be tremendous capability, tremendous amount of infrastructure, but I can see what is going to happen, whether it's the benefits like health outcomes or my ability to create a startup or my ability to run my [00:36:00] local sort of, uh, store more efficiently.It's just happening, and I see that, uh, benefit myself, right? That to me, you know, earning that permission in a path-dependent way, we can't wait. See, the one thing, Eli, that I've now learned is I think the world is gonna be very skeptical of tech and tech companies that say, “Trust us, we've got it. The g- future is gonna be glorious.”Sarah Guo: Uh, you kind of have to deliver tangible benefits. Um, and quite frankly, politicians winning elections, uh, because they have advocated for that. That will be at least my adjustment because without it, um, thinking that somehow... Because it's too important this time around. It's too much of the economy for it not to be the case So one very simple framework I have for, you know, what are, what is gonna be the broad benefit of AI, um, beyond the communities just working in technology, are, are sort of wealth creation- Yepit's [00:37:00] gonna happen in a ton of different companies, startups and large companies. Then you have healthcare. Uh, you, you had amazing demos today. There are companies like Open Evidence. I think that is happening. Um,Education & Future of LearningSarah Guo: education seems like another one that's an- Yep ... obvious good where we haven't seen as much impact as I'd expect.Swyx: Do you have a hypothesis on why that might be, or if it'll come? Yeah, I mean, I think this is where, again, how we think about education, how... You know, recently I met with, uh, the founders of Alpha School and learnt a lot about what they were going and going about, and it's fascinating to listen, uh, to how to even rethink- MmSatya Nadella: uh, what does education really look like. Because I think it's actually very important. Mm. Uh, and I'm not saying anything traditionally being done is less important, right? I was even looking at the, uh... It's fascinating to see. I, I, I forget the which Stanford class it was, uh, the, the Asian guidelines for CS something.Mm. Uh, because you still need people to learn. Uh, like it was an interesting AI class that they were making sure people were learning how to apply softmax appropriately versus saying, “Hey, fix my training run.” Mm-hmm. Uh, so I think learning concepts is important. It's going to [00:38:00] be, uh, critical. But the way we create the incentives, what are the credentials, how we value those credentials, what is the employment opportunity for those credentials?So I think that there's a complete change that has to happen, uh, given the way to get to information, way to educate yourself, way to continuously keep yourself updated has changed so much. So I think interestingly enough, maybe the next big startup and success story could be someone who builds a new university, um, or a new, um, pedagogy even of how to get someone to go through a curriculum and find economic opportunity, uh, that's highly valuable.Well, that has felt, uh, perhaps impossible for a long time, but it's a great note to end on and something that might be possible. It's still possible. Yeah. Thank you, Satya. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you all. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe

Got a question or comment? Message us here!The FBI is warning about Kali365, a new phishing‑as‑a‑service tool designed to steal Microsoft 365 credentials and enable account takeovers at scale. In this episode, we break down how it works, why it's so effective, and what your SOC can do right now to detect and defend against it. 

I'm excited to work with Microsoft once again as the presenting sponsors of the AI Engineer World's Fair! We'll streaming live from MS Build today for a special crossover pod with our friends at No Priors and the one and only Satya Nadella. However we did not hold back with this interview - we asked all the burning questions about uptime and Copilot that we know you have in your minds. Lets go!For almost two decades, GitHub has been the home of software, where both open source and closed flow, through commits, pull requests, reviews, actions, etc.This ecosystem flourished as open-source maintainers and contributors would continue shipping code for the benefit of the community. However as coding agents began to ship mass quantities of code - growing 1400% in 2026, it marked a new era that was both extremely exciting and challenging for GitHub.While these agents help more people ship more projects, they also significantly increase the floor of how much code is shipped, how often it is shipped, how many people commit code, and basically orders of magnitude multiples in every dimension of GitHub infrastructure:Now GitHub inevitably experiences more pressure on their infrastructure which was originally designed around human developers moving at human speed. This has resulted in a very publicly notable uptime story:So it begs the question of whether current systems around code can absorb what AI produces. Can CI/CD keep up when every idea becomes a build? Can open source maintainers survive floods of AI-generated slop contributions? Can GitHub preserve the human social contract of software while becoming the operating layer for agents?Which brings us to the perfect person to answer these questions: GitHub COO Kyle Daigle. In this episode, he joins swyx to unpack what happens when AI doesn't just autocomplete code, but starts changing how companies operate, how open source works, how pull requests get reviewed, and how GitHub itself has to scale. We go deep on GitHub's internal AI workflows: micro-skills, WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, email, Copilot workflows, the new Copilot desktop app, CLI, cloud agents, and how Kyle uses agents to look backwards across company context before deciding what to do next. Kyle also reflects on GitHub's history building webhooks, APIs, Actions, npm, Dependabot, and Semmle, why the AI era is breaking GitHub in new ways, how Actions became a general-purpose compute layer, and what Copilot becomes after code completion.Full Video PodWe discuss:* Kyle's expanded role across GitHub* How AI got Kyle coding again after years in leadership* Why GitHub rolls out AI through existing workflows instead of forcing new tools* WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, email, and GitHub as company context* Why massive “mega-skills” are giving way to small, atomic micro-skills* How AI changes summarization, communications, marketing, and analyst work* Why former developers in leadership may have a unique advantage in the AI era* Kyle's “15 agents on Saturday” workflow* How Kyle built an AI-generated executive presentation for CRO/CFO teams* Why AI changes the chief of staff role without removing the human work* GitHub Actions, webhooks, arbitrary code execution, and secure agent compute* The npm acquisition, supply-chain security, 2FA, and token invalidation* Slop forks, vendoring, and whether AI agents change dependency management* What pull requests become when most PRs come from agents* Prompt requests, vouching, AI review, and trust in open source* What counts as a “developer” when AI lowers the barrier to building* GitHub Spark, low-code, and why GitHub refuses to hide the code* 14x commit growth, Actions load, databases, monorepos, and availability* Copilot's evolution from completion to CLI, desktop app, cloud agents, and SDK* Context, memory, rules, and making GitHub “act like Kyle wants it to act”* Ambient AI, OpenClaw, enterprise security, and the new operating system for agents* What swyx should ask Satya Nadella about Microsoft's AI futureKyle Daigle* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyledaigle* X: https://x.com/kdaigleTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:03:36 Why AI Got Kyle Coding Again00:07:04 Running GitHub with AI: WorkIQ, MCP, Slack, Teams, and Skills00:15:39 The Golden Age for Former Developers in Leadership00:17:31 15 Agents on Saturday and AI-Generated Executive Work00:20:20 How AI Changes the Chief of Staff Role00:21:45 GitHub's History: Actions, npm, Webhooks, and Open Source00:28:45 Slop Forks, Vendoring, and AI Dependency Management00:33:57 Pull Requests, Prompt Requests, and Trust in Agent-Generated Code00:41:21 GitHub Stars, 200M+ Developers, and the New AI Builder Wave00:45:15 GitHub Spark, Low-Code, and Why GitHub Still Shows the Code00:47:38 GitHub's Hardest Era: 14x Growth, Reliability, and Scale00:59:21 Actions as the Compute Layer for CI/CD and Automation01:02:04 The State and Future of GitHub Copilot01:08:24 Ambient AI, Background Agents, and the Future of the SDLC01:13:09 OpenClaw, Enterprise Security, and the New OS for Agents01:18:03 Build Announcements, WorkIQ, FoundryIQ, and Microsoft Context01:21:41 What Should swyx Ask Satya?TranscriptIntroduction: Kyle Daigle's Expanded Role at GitHub and MicrosoftSwyx [00:00:00]: We're here with Kyle Daigle, COO of GitHub. Welcome.Kyle [00:00:07]: Hey, thanks for having me.Swyx [00:00:08]: You're not just CEO of GitHub. People know you as that. You have a new role.Kyle [00:00:11]: So I have an expanded role now. I've been working at GitHub for thirteen years and doing all things developer. Joined as a developer myself. And now, I'm also responsible as the CMO of Developer for Microsoft. And so all the kind of learnings and passion for developers and how we work with them and how we communicate and how we bring our products to market, we're also bringing that expertise to the broader Microsoft ecosystem and helping every developer that uses a Microsoft product or would like to have a sort of similar experience that they've had with GitHub over the years. So it's a different role in some ways, but it's also just building on the experience that I've had at GitHub of just sort of tell the truth, be authentic, show people how to use it and then let the products speak for themselves. Now just doing that with, all of Microsoft.Swyx [00:01:09]: We'll be releasing this in conjunction with Build. You got lots of stuff planned, and we can sort of touch on that whenever it's appropriate. I think one of the interesting things is I rarely meet a COO who's also a CMO. I think you're a very outward facing and you're very confident publicly. That's rare. Do you actually view yourself as COO? What's What is your thing?From GitHub Developer to COO/CMO: Building the Platform and Operating GitHubKyle [00:01:33]: I think for me, it's been funny. The titles have always been, a— have always felt a little strange to me. I joined GitHub as a developer? I wrote so much of theSwyx [00:01:46]: Let's bring that up. You wrote the back ends?Kyle [00:01:48]: I was going through, I was going through, some old photos, when folks were talking about how things were being built or how there was a build GitHub. I built, webhooks and worked with teams building the API, built the platform layer. Anything that integrated with GitHub, up until really twenty eighteen, I built or ran the engineering teams. And that's kind of where my the beginning of my passion always was helping people build things, deliver them to, their customers. And so being a developer, building for developers was always super unique. In a— I think as my role expanded, it became my ability to talk to not just developers, but also enterprise customers or business leaders and have this translation layer. And then through all those years, GitHub has always operated pretty uniquely. Post-pandemic, working remotely was not as novel as it was when GitHub started in two thousand and eight. But all that expertise of running remote teams, doing it well, became this sort of bigger role, ultimately turning into the COO role of how do we operate GitHub in the way that GitHub's always operated after the Microsoft acquisition. And kind of so on from there. So like for me, I think the— I've, I still code. I love coding but the problem has always been, people. It's a much harder problem to both support our own employees, a harder problem to communicate to developers and enterprise buyers what we're building why it matters, ‘cause those are two very different messages. And so getting to work in the mix of COO, CMO, also just being a dev, I think is what's kept me at GitHub for so long.AI Workflows for Leadership: Commits, Retrospectives, and ContextSwyx [00:03:40]: Apparently, you have— your commits have gone up. What's this? What's going on?Kyle [00:03:45]: Rui's called me out pretty aggressively. So I think— as you can imagine, right, you can see my normal era of being a dev In the twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen era, and then moving into management, and then ultimately the COO role. I think what you see there is me, really getting back to coding thanks to AI. I— similar to, attaching problems between how to market and how to operate a business and how to code, I find, building agents and workflows that are connecting very disparate problems to be what's driving this. So that's, some of it's writing software. A lot of it is, connecting a ton of a different data sources to, help me out. But that is completely me really diving in on the AI side in trying out our tools, trying out everyone's tools, But building for me, building for the non-technical leader, though I'm technical and how we're, able to use these tools more than just the simple, call and response that I think a lot of the non-technical, your employers, you have to get— you have to use AI, and so everyone uses, ChatGPT or Copilot or Claude or whatever. To really get into, how is this going to help me out, it— I find that it's not the I need to write a blog post, I need to those simple examples. Helping people find the workflows of, “Okay, I need you to go through all the PRs today. I need you to go through everything that we've posted online. I need you to go through what we did the last three months. Go through all of my Obsidian notes for any mentions of this then go through my transcripts at work.” We use, Teams, so, using WorkIQ, go call that MCP server, grab all the transcripts, go through all the Slack, and then build me out the plan of, what this week's messaging actually was. That's something that was, impossible because for me, I find AI in a what most of this launch here is actually, less building forward. It's actually, a recursive loop backwards. I'm always looking at what had happened first. Go back through the week and tell me what we did, what worked, what didn't work? And then tell me in the next three or four days-What would you tweak based on this sort of like looking backwards and then looking ahead a little bit? I find that to be so much more valuable, especially for like non-technical, because that retrospection is actually LLMs are very good at that. Like finding all the patterns, pulling them out, and then applying that retrospection to just a couple of days or just like a short period of time. Is all a bunch of apps that I've built and launched a bunch of, internal tools. I use the new, GitHub Copilot app, the desktop app with workflows. Every time I crack open my laptop, it's running workflows for me. It's just a ton of different stuff and of course, it all ends up on, it all ends up on GitHub.Swyx [00:06:47]: Of course. That's where, that's where, stuff is hosted. Man, there's so much to ask you. I was going to leave the how do you run a company with AI thing at the end. I have to ask one— double click one thing. You said, you are looking back at the week. You're, you're understanding what happens. When you say we That's three thousand people. How?Rolling Out AI Internally: Skills, CLIs, and Company ContextKyle [00:07:09]: I think when we started rolling out AI internally beyond engineering, right? One of the things that I was really, passionate about is like we have to do this in a way where no one has to change how they work. I don't want to have to teach you a tool. I don't want to have to teach you something new. And so for us, we tried out a few tools. Most of them don't work because I got to get you on board? I got to teach you how to use it. What we've actually ended up doing is we've built like a set of skills internally. We have we each have our set of skills, and we've just been distributing even to the non-technical folks, the CLI. And then effectively, we're just giving it access to like read about everything that we're writing. So that's for us, that's usually GitHub, Teams, Email, and Slack. So Teams for, video chat, generally speaking.Swyx [00:08:03]: Teams and Slack?Kyle [00:08:04]: so we use Teams for video communication, but we don't use it for chat. W-we— GitHub for a long history, right? We're alwaysSwyx [00:08:13]: Also SlackKyle [00:08:14]: Talking about ChatOps and like everything is built into Slack. Like every command, every flow.Swyx [00:08:18]: So even though you have been acquired for I don't know, eight years nowKyle [00:08:22]: we stillSwyx [00:08:23]: You still use Slack?Kyle [00:08:23]: it's a purpose-built tool for us, and I think the reality is that moving off of it would be so bluntly expensive? Simply because all the tooling is, baked in with that paradigm. And they both have their pros and cons but they don't work the same way at all. We still use a bunch of different tools Because it's the purpose-built tools that We need. And thenSwyx [00:08:47]: Well, the same doesn't go for the rest of Microsoft, presumably.Kyle [00:08:50]: like the like various teams like operateSwyx [00:08:53]: They make their own decisionsKyle [00:08:54]: Various ways. I think it just matters what you're trying to what you're trying to do. But we do we do work across kind of every tool that we use, and then by giving everyone access to all of that context and the new WorkIQ MCP server, which is quite cool if you do live in the M365 like world. I can ask it all these backwards-facing questions, and it's incredibly important for our teams that are working remotely. There's a lot of stuff you miss when you're not in an office, and we are spread out all over the world. So most of that is looking back. And then we post, we post either auto-automatically into GitHub issues or discussions, these sorts of like findings or like our industry reports. Like what's happening this morning, today, yesterday. A little automation gets run. We'll use the app. We might use GitHub Actions like with, our agentic workflows just to go do that run, and then we push it into GitHub, and w-we keep having a conversation. So usually for us, it's about that sort of like looking back, looking forward on the non-technical side. And then of course for a lot of those folks, it's also building an app, pushing it to GitHub pages or pushing it somewhere to host it et cetera. But it's just like enabling everyone with that power of it's going to take me a week to figure this out. Instead, we're going “Okay I built a skill. Let's put it into a repo. We'll all share that skill together, and then we'll use the CLI or now the app-” “just to run it.”Micro Skills vs. Mega Skills: How GitHub Uses AI at WorkSwyx [00:10:26]: All right. I think, I think we're going straight into like the team management and productivity thing. I think a lot of people are getting various levels of LLM psychosis. How do you manage the bloat of skills? Like everyone Has their thing, and they're Like trying to promote it to the rest of their peers in their org, right? And obviously, whoever becomes a skill influencer internally becomes like an AI leader, right? Of sorts. I assume you have those.Kyle [00:10:50]: like I think we haveSwyx [00:10:52]: And I assume it's a mess a Yeah.Kyle [00:10:54]: there's like I— like I think the reality is there's two pieces. Like first is I think that we're ending the era of these like massive, beautiful, perfect skills that are just like not any of those things. ‘cause for a while, right every tweet every day is like go download the skills, the perfectly managed thing to do this entire workflow. And I think that like what we've found and what— I was just with my team, this week, and we were talking about the skill side, and we're really talking about these like incredibly micro skills that are just doing one thing for us very well Versus a skill that's going to do I said, that full report. That doesn't really exist on our side anymore. It's usually how do— like a single skill that's going to identify the most important marketing information given any MCP server. Like this is the most important thing. Less about stitch a bunch of tools together and have it produce this mega output because then weeks go by, months go by, things change, and you want to tweakSwyx [00:11:58]: It's brittleKyle [00:11:58]: Your mega skill and you're screwed? You can't do that. And so now we're really just talking about the Legos we're using and just letting the instruction book be something we're all putting together. Whereas I think a lot of AI skills for a while have been that mega instruction book style.Swyx [00:12:15]: I've, thought a lot about Postel's law. I don't know if that's a term that is, means things to folks. It's the idea that you should be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you output, right? And I think that's like a good framing principle for skills. This is my skills, obviously on GitHub. I feel like everyone should have like how like some repos In GitHub are special repos? I feel like we should sort of reify the slash skills and everyone like give it some kind of special presentation. Anyway, so, yeah, this is one of those like download Download anything, transcribe anything, and then you can string together the atomic skills that do one thing well Into like some kind of orchestration skill that calls other skills. I assume, does that match?Kyle [00:12:56]: I like I think so. I think that theSwyx [00:13:00]: Summarize anything.Kyle [00:13:01]: Like I think the- For me, summarizing something for I do communications and PR and analyst relations and marketing and customer activities, and so my summarize everything is very different for each one of those like Contexts. What ‘Cause if I'm summarizing something for an analyst, that's a very different thing than, probably how I'm going to summarize something for like a customer meeting or an engagement. So that's I think like the difference when we're talking about the like the tools I might use on Saturday or the skills I might use on a Saturday when it's just for Kyle. Yeah, those are kind of like they have an atomic actual tool underneath or maybe skill, and then Kyle cares about X. But I think when we're talking about work and enabling the the marketers, communicators there, it's the atomic, this is what good summarization is, and then this is what I care about as for marketing for communications For whatever. And that I think is like the interesting matrix problem when we go from like a developer set of concerns to all kinds of different professions, is that what that word means to me is different than it means to you is different than it means to the analyst or the salesperson, and that's where I think the matrix mess is that we're starting to like still starting to find. It's about these mega skills but they're all just slight permutations, but those permutations are really important. It's the difference between someone reading this and going “Did AI make this?” what Or “This makes total sense, and I would expect this when I'm giving a briefing to Gartner,” or like whatever else.Swyx [00:14:37]: I think the beauty of it maybe is that you don't have to be that careful about what goes in there. It doesn't have to exactly fit as long as it like roughly is contained in there. I used to complain about plugin hell, basically. Like when you have a framework and then you have a hundred things that you need to integrate, everyone does like the GitHub used to be bloated full of these things. And now we don't need them anymore ‘cause now you just use skills.Former Developers in Leadership: AI as a Creation MultiplierKyle [00:15:00]: And like I think the most magical thing is the just that like I can just also crack it open. Like Like yes, I could go like change the how the plugin is coded, or like I could go do that now with AI, but I think there's just something more magical about getting a response back and being “That's not right,” and then you just crack the skill open, you just type English words and it's different. That building block is just, I think very unique. Once I get everyone to kind of understand how to best how to best make those changes to get the most power out of them.Swyx [00:15:36]: Is there a— you have a your peer group that Of people like you. Is there a common framing for Something I'm feeling is, which is true, is that is this a golden age for former developers who are now in leadership? Because you can wield the tools, you would know the right words, you're maybe not too close to the details. Doesn't matter. But like you're more effective than someone who doesn't come from that background.Kyle [00:15:59]: I think that like the secret has always been your ability to identify patterns and solve problems, and I think that for folks that like myself that don't code day to day anymore, that has made me successful as a developer, made me successful as a COO and now CMO. And so now that I have access to get and write code, I'm now applying that sort of like pattern finding and problem solving, and I know enough still about how to then go and say, “Oh, I want to make an app, but I don't want to break into jail or create something that's not going to be able to work or to be deployed scale or whatever.” that ability to apply all that additional business knowledge and still code I think is what makes that so interesting to me. Slightly different than I think some of the other like technical leaders that became business leaders and now are going back to their apps and updating them. Good for them? But I think the more, much more interesting thing is, well, now I have this whole new set of expertise over ten plus years. Why not take that and use that as a developer with these AI tools? So I definitely think that makes me more powerful, but I think that's true for like every dev as well. Most of the dev friends I still have also have some other underlying skill and passion. There's really talented, very kind of linear computer science software devs, absolutely. I just find that the folks that came from a different career, went to school for something else, went off and did this random thing, and then became a software dev, or were a dev, did a random thing, came back. Learning that extra set of information, learning those extra skills, and now having the power of an AI where I can crank up fifteen agents on Saturday while my kids are doing lacrosse, That's like really powerful. And I think it gets me back to that feeling of like creation, and it's very hard to replicate that in most other senses? That first time you build an app and you click it and you show someone that's magical. And so being able to do that not just in code, but across all kinds of different assets that's, that's huge. We were doing we're doing our every year we do our revenue planning. We talk about okay, what is it going to look like for next year? And of course as you imagine, there's, slideshows everywhere talking about what are we going to talk about, what's the narrative, et cetera. And so as you said I'm “Okay, well, I could probably just like build something to build this and then that way I don't have to go build the whole spreadsheet or I have to pass it to my team.” So we went through this process, and I got all the information and used the skills I mentioned. I built like a little app just to make it so I could look at some of the information in a SQLite database, more easily. And I ultimately built this entire presentation without touching any of it and I was “Okay, I'm just going to present this to our CRO, the CFO, their teams,” without mentioning I'd built it with AI. I like built a skill to make it look very much not AI driven. Just not pretty.AI-Generated Presentations, Human Taste, and the Changing Chief of Staff RoleSwyx [00:19:03]: Like a design. Yeah.Kyle [00:19:03]: Not pretty. But just like very clearly not AI. Kind of like don't do anything interesting.Swyx [00:19:08]: That's, yeah, that is valuable.Kyle [00:19:08]: Just go Exactly. We did the whole thing through. It used my notes from Obsidian, it used all the context I mentioned before, the plans, and Never came up once that it was AI generated.Swyx [00:19:20]: It didn't matter.Kyle [00:19:20]: Never once. D It didn't matter. And so now I takeSwyx [00:19:23]: This is a toolKyle [00:19:23]: I can take that tool and go, “Look, I don't want you to go build slideshows.” They're just helping us share information with each other. If this thing can do it With a little bit of crafting from you and then we can look at it together, awesome. There's no value in all that extra work. I think that the ability to, make it look humanly bad and and build a little app to, manipulate the data I think is part of, that upside for devs that are now in leadership roles. Because, the thing that I feel like I said before, this that's all a people, that's all a people problem. I know if you've used a coworker or not to build a slide deck, unless you spent a bunch of time to not do it.Swyx [00:20:07]: I know, but like it was so, I think there's a certain charm to just being blatantly AI. ‘Cause I think that you're well, you're just honest about There may be mistakes here that I cannot vouch for. So how much value is there? But anyway I think, actually the real question I want to ask is, there's a— You were a chief of staff To Thomas. And in the pre-AI world, the that job would've been a chief of staff job of like Can you prep me these slides and all that? And now you do it yourself.Kyle [00:20:35]: I still, I still have a chief of staff. Because, the difference is it's sort of the discussion every time we have some sort of technology evolution is it's not that the jobs the roles don't all go away, they just change? And so yeah, I don't have someone spending all their time building out slides for me and presentations ‘cause I don't need that anymore. But now I need that person that is able to go and find all the different connections between humans in those discussions to help me find out, okay, I should be meeting with this group and this team, and they have an opportunity, and I'm going to be in San Francisco today, I'm going to be in Seattle tomorrow. Those sorts of human connection aspects are still incredibly valuable and has always been a big part of that chief of staff role. But now just like chiefs of staff are not opening up, letters to process, they're doing emails. What It's the same thing. And now they're, they're not building out as many of these presentations because they have the the ability to have a AI take it on for, and share that with me and great. Let's keep moving ‘cause it's allowing us to go faster and make better decisions more quickly.Swyx [00:21:45]: Awesome. Well, so we can dive into more sort of, Productivity insights as you go. I did want to do a little bit of a brief history of colleague and hub. Because, we started here. And then you also involved the NPM acquisition. I did, I do want to touch upon that. And then more recently, I just want to bring up to present day where we're having uptime issues Which transparently we've already Addressed publicly, but we'll, we'll discuss in the pod. Did I miss anything? Like what, any other major highlights? Obviously, it's, it's a lot of years to cover.A Brief History of GitHub: Webhooks, Actions, Acquisitions, and Platform EvolutionKyle [00:22:15]: No the I think one of one highlight was right before the acquisition closed in twenty eighteen, I got to launch the first version of ActionsSwyx [00:22:27]: OhKyle [00:22:27]: At GitHub Universe. So it was OSwyx [00:22:29]: They're that young?Kyle [00:22:30]: It was October of twenty eighteen, I think. Yeah. Yeah.Swyx [00:22:33]: Gee, Jesus.Kyle [00:22:34]: I got to I was the engineering leader on that project and got to launch that. And then, yeah, we did acquisitions of NPM you said, Semmle, Dependabot Pul Panda a whole bunch of things. That was a bigSwyx [00:22:47]: Pul Panda.Kyle [00:22:48]: Abi is doing well.Swyx [00:22:51]: DX. Holy crap.Kyle [00:22:52]: Did well on DX. I and like that was a that was the big shift, after the acquisition. I had to join the sort of business side.Swyx [00:23:00]: So I need to hit you on some of these things ‘cause you were there. Right? And how often do I get to talk to someone who was there? But yeah, Actions. Is that the number one source of security issues on GitHub?Kyle [00:23:11]: Oh, sh I think that the number one source of, security issues is probably like all, the literal code in everyone's like underlying repositories. I would say back further than that is, if you remember I had to show in this graph was this is, I'm, didn't say this before, this is ultimately webhooks.Swyx [00:23:30]: You yeah.Kyle [00:23:31]: Like circa whatever it was.Swyx [00:23:32]: It says Hookshot in there.Kyle [00:23:32]: I forget. Yeah. Yeah, Hookshot's in there. And so like back then, it says GitHub Services. Do you see, it says Hookshot FE for front end, and then it says GitHub Services. GitHub Services back in the old days, right? You we had a repository that was Ruby code, and you could write any Ruby code in there, and then we would execute that On your behalf As a service, and then that way if an if you were trying to integrate with something, it didn't we would run it for you.Swyx [00:23:57]: And of course no containers ‘causeKyle [00:23:58]: No, ‘cause it wasSwyx [00:23:59]: Well, no containersKyle [00:24:00]: Twenty fourteen. And so there was some isolation obviously, but it was mostly the separations on the server level. That's like an example as long as the very old version of Pages, which ran on its own containerization infrastructure, not on Actions.Swyx [00:24:15]: Which like all-time great product.Kyle [00:24:16]: Pages powers the internet at this point to some degree. Those were places where like clearly there were no like issues like to my knowledge. But it was those things where I'm looking at and going “Okay, well we can't be running arbitrary Ruby code,” like on everyone's behalf. Then containerizing all of that up intoUh into actions now where yeah the containerization, is r-really good. The pinning most folks aren't pinning it the like to a particularSwyx [00:24:48]: ImagesKyle [00:24:48]: Sha, et cetera like their workflows, and so that's a big that's a big place Of pain for folks if they're just doing similar to any dependency management, just V1 or newest or latest, I think. But, that journey from that day to “Okay, we're just going to run all this arbitrary code, and, it'll basically be okay,” to now, no, we have, really good containerization. We have a new, underlying, ag-agent, containerization, service. It's like we're using it under the hood. It's through Azure. They recently announced it. The Azure, Dev Compute, but it's, very fast, very fast compute to be able to, spin up your own cloud agents, or whatnot. We're using it under the hood for some parts of the new,Swyx [00:25:36]: Microsoft Dev Box?Kyle [00:25:37]: No. Dev Compute, yeah.Swyx [00:25:41]: Hmm. Not finding it just yet.Kyle [00:25:44]: Oh, it's, it's in there somewhere.Swyx [00:25:46]: All right. Well, we'll cut that out.Kyle [00:25:47]: Sorry. But with, Dev Compute, you can, run, really fast, spin up really, small VMs really quickly, so you're doing a tool callSwyx [00:25:58]: Same conceptKyle [00:25:58]: Just do it containerize exact-exactly. So we're using that so definitely moving that direction to protect us from every every piece of code that we're ultimately running.Swyx [00:26:07]: look, that grows into the full SDLC? Code hosting was just the start and and then it's grown beyond that. Let's talk about NPM may-maybe ‘cause I think that's also, a very major point in the industry. I do think, it was looking for a home. It was, kind of struggling as a business, right? I don't know, I don't know how you would characterize that whole acquisition and how itNPM, Package Security, and Keeping the Internet RunningKyle [00:26:33]: like when we were talking to the team, I think the big thing for the both of us was to find a way to keep NPM, which was basically powering the internet then and way more so now to some degree running. Keep it going keep continuing to scale. It was having scaling problems, if I recall, back at that time. They were doing some rewrites. ItSwyx [00:27:00]: that's cute compared to now.Kyle [00:27:01]: Well, that's the thing is like when I'm talking to folks now, there's there's so many more underlying uses of NPM than there were back when we had them join in with GitHub. But that was ultimately the goal. It was really okay, we used to have pages. We have, the world's code. Let's make sure that we can keep NPM running well for the world. And we put a bunch of time and investment into fixing some of the underlying backend, changes, some of which we talked about some of the manifest work, et cetera. And then now, really trying to bring the the security posture of NPM up to speed. But, it is a unique challenge in that every move that we make to make it more secure will break a lot of people. And security is paramount. And also, we take it very seriously. We're, the any time that we have a problem with GitHub or we make a change that makes us more secure but hurts, there's, a snow day for developers or a really bad fire that they have to go put out. And so we've, have changed the 2FA policies. We've changed the way the tokens work. When we find tokens that have been exposed or potentially, exposed, we invalidate them, andSwyx [00:28:22]: I love that feature in GitHub. Yeah, it's greatKyle [00:28:23]: That creates issues, but, the but that's the thing is we're trying to push the community, forward without necessarily, doing something that is going to break the contract that's been for 15 years or close to it or some amount of years on NPM.Slop Forks, Vendoring, and the Future of Open Source Supply ChainsSwyx [00:28:43]: I think the— So now we're talking about, open source and publishing. And I think there's something here with what people are calling slop forks, which, I think Malta from Vercel is doing. And, part of me thinks, well, the way to get past any vulnerabilities, we just, let's just get rid of the concept of NPM. And we only publish source code. And anytime you want to import it you have your coding agent look at it and then adapt whatever subset you're going to use into your vendor it. But, the AI vendor it. Is that realistic? I don't know. Is it— Will that solve all our security issues? I don't know.Kyle [00:29:24]: I don't think it'll solve I so Mitchell was just talking Mitchell Hashimoto Was just talking about this today, and I think that I-in some ways, it's all all things, old or new again? Yeah, absolutely vendoring everything. Like I do I do remember twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen.Swyx [00:29:42]: This is Yeah. Let's, we must return toKyle [00:29:43]: That's what is We were vendoring everything. We were having actual discussions around, or at least I remember we were “Should we take this full thing?” “Why is this so big? We only need this one file.” And so I do think there's something true there where having either taking only what you need or the dependencies just getting incredibly small over time, I think will help to some degree, but it's not going to solve the fundamental problem, I don't think, because the vulnerabilities in an agent looking at them, there's time and time again, there's a million different ways in which we can convince an agent that this thing is, secure or not and pull it in. Or we can do static code analysis or runtime testing to say whether the code works or not. That is, I think, the step that needs to continue to be, invested in. The question is just on, how much scope. Should it be this enormous project that I'm pulling down, or should it be this piece? Either most companies are running some amount of security checking on the on the packages that they're bringing in or vendoring. That I think won't change. That's like what advanced security does to some degree, Socket does some degree. Like everyone is doing a piece of that. How we each do that like especially when we're talking to enterprise customers, is just like very different. No there's no one wants one single way to do it. And I think that's always been GitHub's, unique position in the world. I talk a lot to maintainers, I talk a lot to folks about this. It's we're— we rarely start like a process and a practice and like push it onto the community. We usually wait for the sort of like RFC process socially or literally, everyone agreeing, and then we'll cement something in. Because otherwise we'reMaintainers, RFCs, Vouching, and the Social Layer of TrustSwyx [00:31:35]: That fits your role in the ecosystem, yeahKyle [00:31:36]: We're GitHub. Yeah, we don't want to shape the whole thing. We want it to be figured out. But like how do you balance that like sort of Role in the industry to keep everything as secure as is possible and make sure that you're you're not going to be compromised as a human, ‘cause that's usually how it all happens. And Not not create a process or lock us into a flow that you're not going to or like Mitchell's not going to or other open source projects aren't going to like. That's always been a tricky balance for us, and I think that's something that we haven't talked about enough is we're not going to be able to fix everything for everyone in a way that everyone is going to like. So tell, help us, tell us what is working. When Mitchell was talking about, the Upvote, the upSwyx [00:32:22]: I was going to bring up his thing. Yeah.Kyle [00:32:23]: I forget what it Yeah. When he's talking to us, I was chatting with him and talking to him about this and I put it on Twitter and we talked to, also over DM, was “We're going to keep working.” but I think the important thing is I do actually want to hear what isn't working for you. And as, be as specific and clear for your project as is possible. And to every piece of credit over the many years that we've known each other through the industry, he's always done that and I appreciate that ‘cause there are places that we need to fix up, and we hear from him, and we'll fix up just like we do all other kinds of maintainers. But that that process between making those types of improvements and being more secure and like creating, I forget what he calls it's not the proof process, not the claims process. Do what I'm talking about? He has that he his projects have a way for you to kind of like,Swyx [00:33:13]: VouchKyle [00:33:13]: Vouch. Thank you. Yeah. He has like the vouch system for saying, “Hey, you should accept my PRs.” That's beenSwyx [00:33:20]: I just built this into GitHub. I don't know.Kyle [00:33:22]: Well, see, but that's the thing is that you say that and like he and his community really likes this and then I'll go talk to other maintainers and other maintainers, globally, and they're “No, this doesn't work for me.” And that is the tension, but also the kind of beauty of GitHub, depending on which way you look at it is we want to help maintainers, so we create all these tools to let you have more control over how much you take in from AI and PRs. But you can also use this. What You can go use this project, and if it takes off and becomes the kind of mostly standard, then yeah, we probably wouldn't enforce it but we would add it in because that's the flow that we tend to do?Swyx [00:34:02]: I hear a lot of people don't know the history of the pull request. And like like that's how, that's something that GitHub standardized basically.Kyle [00:34:08]: Yeah. It was a very messy process Like beforehand, and now the we have the benefit of it being the process? And now we have to go and Figure out the next best process or what adaptations change, or what does a pull request look like when eighty percent of your PRs are just coming from your agents and not From other devs?Swyx [00:34:31]: Do you like the prompt request idea from Peter?Kyle [00:34:34]: like I think that for each like each idea I think has its merits. I'm not, I'm not avoiding saying anything good or bad, but I feel like I've seen a version of we have that we have entire Thomas' store. Take all the assets of what you've built and put that in. I think that's got great ideas. There's all these various permutations of the PR flow, but I think the reason why there's not a single answer is ultimately we're trying to codify trust. We're trying to say “Okay, if Sean reviews this I'm going to trust it because you're Sean or you're the senior dev or you're the whatever.” And right now, when we are working in a flow where an agent writes code and another agent reviews code and then Kyle goes and looks at it the trust is kind of diffuse. And most of the tools that we're talking about are talking more about verification flows. We have more assets to look at, so I can probably say whether this is a good PR or not. But that still doesn't solve, I think, the human problem of I'm looking at a PR and I want to know if I can trust it. And we're still, we still tend to use human signals for that? Mitchell approving it or Kyle approving it or whatever. And so I think that's, I think that's why most of these options haven't really solved it is because, it's a social problem ultimately. It's a it's a human problem to review it and agree. Or you fully trust the tool and you're imbuing that tool with full trust Which I think in some cases that absolutely exists.AI-Generated PRs, Trust, and the Waymo AnalogySwyx [00:36:08]: And so like in the same way that there will be a tipping point in society when we don't allow humans to drive anymore Because machines are measurably better than Than humans. I'm looking for that tipping point, right? Like Mythos is ridiculously expensive. Someday we'll have Mythos on a desktop. I don't know. Will, does that change the equation?Kyle [00:36:30]: I think it's more I took a Waymo here, and I was on my phone and not looking around at all. There are other, self-driving, vehicles that I would not trust while, staring at the road. And I think that trust is something that isSwyx [00:36:48]: Is this a Zoox thing? What is itKyle [00:36:50]: I think that is both. I think that is both. LikeSwyx [00:36:53]: There's Zoox in this robo taxi. That's it. It'sKyle [00:36:56]: Well, depending on what level Of self-driving. But, my point is sort of that I think part of that is I strongly believe that's, a mixture of verifiable proof. Like how many accidents, how much data, and so on, and the human aspect of how I feel when I'm in this car, what it tells me, et cetera. And so that's why I think some of the like Some of these some of our AI tools tend to, imbue me with more of that feeling of trust, even if the data says this is 100% accurate. I feel like it takes more time for us to go, “Should I trust this or not?” And that's in the soft sense of, startups with high agency, weekend projects, and open source. And then there's enterprises and regulated industries and everything else, and that is an even harder problem to go solve because even when it is fully verified, not only do you have to have trust from the humans on the team, you probably have to have trust from multinational,Swyx [00:37:55]: Oh my GodKyle [00:37:55]: Multi governments around the world and regulating agencies. And so that's where I feel like until we tip over to your point on the sort of like human EQ side of it. I feel okay this feels okay I've been proven enough. Then the ball will start to roll a lot faster, where we'll end up getting to the “Okay, we can trust this,” and feel good about it in the Most difficult of cases.Reputation, Sponsors, Stars, and Bot Activity on GitHubSwyx [00:38:18]: If human trust is the thing that matters, I feel like GitHub as the developer social network could maybe do more there. Like vouchers are one system But, we have star counts, and then we have Contributor rights, and that's it. And I feel like there should be more in that space. I don't know if there's any other design decisions there.Kyle [00:38:37]: I think that one of the places that we don't really expose right now in this sort of way is, some degree of like hard trust and support, which would like for me is like sponsors is a good example of that.Swyx [00:38:49]: Ah.Kyle [00:38:49]: It like costs you something. To prove that I believe in your project and I trust you To some degree or I want to support you at the very least.Swyx [00:38:56]: Solve payments for open source. Why not?Kyle [00:38:58]: I think that I think that like as we keep moving forward, right, there's more and more projects where I'm, adding more and more dollars into sponsors personally because I want to like support them, but I also like know of I've probably never met them in person, but, I know of enough of their work that I want to support them. I think the thing that I don't love about stars or commit counts or anything else is ultimately, even with all of the various, abuse and de-spamming and deduplication work that we do or anti-abuse work that we do, these are all, not active social signals. They're passive ones that are ultimately gamifiable. And you may trust me, but another open source maintainer may not. And on what heuristic should you be, trusting me? That I think, is kind of where some of our thinking is right now. What signal from me is most important to you? You— If you can define that potentially, honestly in an agentic workflow that's what we see some of these open source projects do, where you have GitHub actions, and then you have like an agentic workflow that's calling AI, and you're setting these rules. Like if Kyle has submitted and gotten accepted PRs across any given project and has a social handle tied to his account in GitHub, and that social account's older than a certain amount. Really complex measures that matter to you ‘cause most open source projects have that heuristic built into their heads, if not written down in the contributing guidelines. You could take that and then go apply that and then just say, “Oh, we're not going to accept this PR.” Building something that is, I think, malleable to everyone's needs, is a little bit better, rather than going “Hmm, this account's too young.” Because what happens? The attackers just go and go and create a multitude of accounts, and they wait Until it ages up. Needs to have a certain amount of stars. That's how star inflation happens. Need to have a certain amount of reposSwyx [00:40:46]: Oh my God. YeahKyle [00:40:47]: With PRs. They all just create repos and submit PRs to each other, and then they come in and do something nefarious. And so, it's hard. It's hard to find the measure. So I think we're, we're looking more at how can we provide you tools so you can kind of choose what's best for you. And of course, we'll give you some standards. But the trust vector, gets down to I don't know, some version of like human digital ID like everyone's been talking about. Like how do I prove that it's meSwyx [00:41:13]: Give me your eyeballsKyle [00:41:14]: On the internet. Give me your eyeballs. Exactly.Swyx [00:41:18]: The I got to keep moving on Topics, but obviously I can go all day on this stuff because, I've been involved in GitHub and open source My entire professional career. Stars. Very superficial. Everyone knows it. But I think time to one hundred thousand stars is the fastest I've ever seen. Like people just reached that in I don't know, months. And then like at the same time I don't trust it right? Like how many of these are real or bot or like whatever. I don't know how to ask this but like what can we do about it? LikeKyle [00:41:49]: JustSwyx [00:41:49]: Is stars broken? Is stars fine?Kyle [00:41:51]: I think that there's kind of two, there's like two pieces. Obviously we're constantly like trying to find ways in which like your users are producing spam, which would, I would include like be like only doing star gamification. When we find them, we pluck ‘em out and we,Swyx [00:42:08]: But it's like a Whac-A-MoleKyle [00:42:10]: It's a hundred percent like a Whac-A-MoleSwyx [00:42:11]: There's no wayKyle [00:42:11]: Now, powered by AI to be helpful. But I think more so what I'm seeing is, a lot of the like fastest time to X tends to be because we're now inviting so many more people into like software development on GitHub That like the zeitgeist is just swarming? And it'sSwyx [00:42:32]: It's not just developers anymoreKyle [00:42:33]: And it's not you and I. Like like however you want to say like what a developer is it's not just folks who have been coding for a very long time. It's folks that have maybe started coding or only joined in since the AI era. And nowSwyx [00:42:44]: what's the latest Octoverse number? I know eighty million was my lastRem- member that a number of developers on GitHubKyle [00:42:50]: Oh, we're over 200 million now.Swyx [00:42:53]: Okay. Well, so you see?Kyle [00:42:55]: Like over 200 million developers now.Swyx [00:42:56]: But it's not developers, right? It's, it's people with a GitHub account.What Counts as a Developer in the AI Era?Kyle [00:43:00]: So, so this is, this is the biggest debate that I would say, everyone loves to have at GitHub at this point. From my perspective, right, I think that there's, there's clearly a difference between, professional enterprise developer and then developers. But I think that I think that the idea that we should be I don't know, splitting hairs or segmenting developers in the early era of software development is, not worth our not worth the time. SoSwyx [00:43:29]: When you get into gatekeepingKyle [00:43:31]: 100%Swyx [00:43:31]: What is a developer?Kyle [00:43:31]: 100%. ‘Cause I wasn't a developer when I started writing code? I was going toSwyx [00:43:36]: Oh, no. I made— I cloned a thing, seven years before I learned to code. And then I and then I wrote about my learning to code journey, and people Just called me a fraud ‘cause I had a GitHub account. And I'm “Well, no, I just use GitHub, but I don't know-” “I didn't know what I was doing.”Kyle [00:43:49]: I I remember that. I remember those sets of posts, and like that's, that's b******t. So I fight very clearly on the line of, if you create code, if you have an idea and you create it into some way of, I'm, I'm going to run it and use the app right now, you may still use AI in that moment, but that's okay. At some point you're going to do the next thing. You're going to create a big— You're going to have to learn about this database. You're going to fix a bug, whatever. We're all on some same journey, and those people are also hearing about the great new agent skill package or a new CLI tool or a new whatever. And those projects are going up because you want to be a part of this moment, just like I wanted to be a part of the Ruby community when Ruby was popping off when I started becoming a developer, and now I can just click the star button. And so I think that yes, there's clearly some amount of like spamming and game gamification that we're working against, but I really think we're just seeing this whole new cohort of folks that are moving from technology to technology because they're not working on a 20-year-old software application. They're working on a side app that they built on the weekend for their friends or for their new idea or whatever. And that's how you see these enormous charts going up and to the right with With stars.Swyx [00:44:59]: I think something that's remarkable is the persistence or, that GitHub extends to those folks. Usually when I see platforms go into a new audience, they usually have to, have like a second platform with a different name that wraps the main platform. But somehow GitHub has been able to sort of persist and extend, and it's friendly and whatever? So it's, it's nice.Spark, Low-Code, and Always Showing the CodeKyle [00:45:19]: I that's partially why I think as we've tried to move into I don't know, more like low-code-y things. We so we started working on Spark as like a way to, build an app and run it. I think that the reality is that we anytime we try to, kind of put even a veneer on top of it without when we put a veneer on top of something, we still always show you the code. That's kind of like a tenant. We're never going to, hide the code from you ever, because whatSwyx [00:45:52]: Why would you?Kyle [00:45:52]: That's, yeah, that's the whole point? However, I think that what we learned with things like Spark is that really the value of Spark for most devs is, easy runtime. And you may have a runtime or a host that you're going to use for that or you just build something and run it but, the package of making that even more simple isn't really needed for folks that are trying to build software and not just trying to build, an app, which is, slightly different, a slightly different goal. So I want to get you in, I want to get you comfortable. I think the best thing for me as, someone that did not traditionally come into software dev way back, I want anyone to be able to breach that chasm and not be in the I don't know, I feel like we're, we're still in an era of, STEM. I've got a 12-year-old and an eight-year-old, and it's “We got to get ‘em into STEM,”? Over and over. And I like I do, I do the things that good parents do. I was “Oh, you want to do coding?” “Yes, I want to do coding.” Do coding classes. But now they're just not afraid of doing software. And that's, I think, the thing that's honestly kept me at GitHub for so long. Anyone should be able to go and build a thing, just like I can go change a light switch in my house. I'm not going to go into the breaker box ‘cause I'll probably kill myself? But, I can go change that light switch. Everyone should be able to go and say, “This fricking app doesn't do what I want. I want it to work like this.” And that I think, is what's kind of kept us all connected with GitHub through the years and some and during the easiest of times or in the hard times because of that opportunity of, we're the home for all developers, and we want everyone to be able to have that feeling that we've had of, had an idea, I created it and holy s**t here it is.Swyx [00:47:37]: Here it is. All right, I'm going to try to do more spicy questions.GitHub's Hardest Scaling Moment: Growth, Agents, and UptimeKyle [00:47:42]: Great.Swyx [00:47:42]: Is it an easy time now or a hard time?Kyle [00:47:45]: Oh at GitHub? It's a hard time. Like, it's a hard time and also, I was just with my team and I said, “This is also, the best and most exciting time that I think I can remember at GitHub.” BecauseSwyx [00:47:57]: Best of times, worst of times. It's never oneKyle [00:47:59]: ‘cause we've we were talking about Octoverse reports and, usually we do an Octoverse report once a year, and we look at the numbers, and we say, “Oh my goodness.” I was at Universe in October saying, “This was the fastest year of growth that we've ever had,” right? And now we're doing more in a month than we did in a year last year.Swyx [00:48:20]: You're talking about PRs.Kyle [00:48:21]: Commits.Swyx [00:48:21]: Commits, yeah.Kyle [00:48:22]: PRs. Kind of like you name it by roughly every measure that we're looking at, there's some amount of sort of growth that is much bigger, and that is breaking our system in new ways, not old ways. Like webhooks were always notoriously, unreliable over the years?Swyx [00:48:38]: Whose fault is that?Kyle [00:48:39]: not anymore mine, but for a period of time, I'm sure you could pull up a tweet that was “It was me. I'm sorry.” but, now, that got rewritten at a scale level that is still working and is not having problems today. Now what we're finding isn't just the isn't the-The simple stuff that folks are on the sometimes on Twitter or on the internet are “Hey, why is this like this?” Sure. There's absolutely silly problems that we shouldn't exist. But now we're talking about, unique, novel permission problems that happen only at a scale across all different objects or whatever, that now we have to go rewrite this underlying system. And so it's, there are problems that yeah, caught us off guard, which I think I said. Like the growth is astronomical, but also we're making such material progress in that I'm excited once we're once we've kind of like reimagined the underlying foundation layer, or pieces of it at least, what's going to be possible when it's not just all of us and all the new people that are being developers and all of their agents and all the tools like working together. Because that'll still happen in that in that GitHub tool, that GitHub community. But it's a it's a hard day anytime we can't give you what you're looking for. We have the same problem internally. We operate through github. Com. Of course, we have backups when things go down and whatnot for our own operations but we feel it too. If it's not working it's not working for us, and that's kind of like the promise of dogfooding for GitHub. It's always been true. We're using the same tool you're using. We're not using a super secret version. We and so we also need it to be great for us for our customers of course for open source. And now an exponential growth of agents, Doing it too.Swyx [00:50:32]: I wanted to load for audio listeners who maybe haven't seen your tweets, whatever. So one billion commits in twenty-five. Now it's two hundred and seventy-five million per week on pace for fourteen billion this year, if growth remains linear. Is that still the pace? I don't know. It's been aKyle [00:50:48]: it's, it's speedingSwyx [00:50:50]: Roughly.Kyle [00:50:50]: It's still speeding up.Swyx [00:50:51]: It's, it's April, so yeah.Kyle [00:50:51]: Exactly. This was in April.Swyx [00:50:53]: All right. So basically you have fourteen x growth, right? Year on year on year. And I think that's a scaling issue. I think, I'm going to like try to really steel man this thing. People have experienced fourteen x growth. They haven't had your downtime. And that's like— C-can we go dig into that? Why? Like what's the— what broke? What are we doing to fix it? Like just anything for the community to reassure them.Why GitHub Reliability Is Breaking in New WaysKyle [00:51:18]: so there's a Like I was saying, there's a couple different places that we've seen the growth issues. Some of the growth issues, which is why we're t— I was talking about pushing hard on more CPUs is in actions in particular. More tools, more agents, more PRs mean more builds, more builds mean more CPUs. And so we are expanding through not just our data center, but obviously we were talking about moving to Azure and moving to, adding an additional cloud compute because we simply need more CPUs. Not as much GPUs. We definitely need GPUs too, but now CPUs are becoming a factor.Swyx [00:51:53]: It's very CPU heavy.Kyle [00:51:54]: Underneath the hood when it comes to some of the underlying services, we've been breaking up over the years our database infrastructure, so that way we have, more cognitive separation between our the various services. The place that we continue to have pain is in, permissioning. And so right now m-many of our permissioning layers sit into a database that we like internally call MySQL One, and old Hubbers will know what I'm talking about. And so we've been pulling things out of MySQL One for many years, because like and we use we use Vitess and we use other technologies to shard and we do it as one bigSwyx [00:52:31]: Famous thing, PlanetScale was born from this andKyle [00:52:32]: A hundred percent. Sam Old Hubber and friend. And so finding these opportunities to like break this out and then do that globally. The other thing that I think is interesting and both a unique opportunity and tricky is we also run everything I just talked about in a black box container with GitHub Enterprise Server for people that work on-prem. So we take everything I just said, and we also do it on-prem, and we also do all of that and we do it in a data residence setup for customers that need to have their data in a single location. Each of these has the unique characteristic around how we're sort of storing that data in MySQL or in a permissioning setup. That's where some of these outages have oc-occurred, where you're seeing it more like across the board rather than just like the one pieceSwyx [00:53:17]: Filling the databaseKyle [00:53:17]: Isn't quite working. Exactly. And so part of it is that. I think there's been some other places where agents are much more or more projects appear to be moving towards monorepo versus we were going the other direction for many years in the industry. Repos were smaller, but there were more of them, and now we're seeing the opposite. Repos are bigger, and there's, not fewer of them per se ‘cause there's new growth, but, we're just seeing many more big repos. Big repos, big monorepos have always had, a unique performance problem. Because each one, is slightly different if, particularly if the underlying blobs are incredibly big Inside the repos. And so we've done a ton of work that you pro— like most people haven't probably experienced, unless you're in this case of the monorepo. But that Git, infrastructure layer improvement does help the overall, system because, many of the improvements that make monorepos work better make all repo infrastructure work better. And so, I could kind of keep going down the line where it's another thing where we're moving out of, We're changing how we do j I'll just say job queuing for lack of a better, explanation changing the underlying technologies there.Swyx [00:54:32]: I spent two years being a job queuing guy, so.Kyle [00:54:34]: And so it's kind of a little bit of a little bit of piece by piece, and it's mostly because as we were— as it was built, we built everything in a way that assumed, I guess in some ways that the size of the pipe of work was going to remain the same. There's just going to be more people coming through each of those pipes. But instead now in places whereA git push was, generally a certain size for example, is now, no longer true.Swyx [00:55:03]: Oh, yeah.Kyle [00:55:03]: OrSwyx [00:55:05]: I push a thousandKyle [00:55:06]: On the average. 100%Swyx [00:55:06]: A thousand line commits like dailyKyle [00:55:07]: Same thing with PRs. Like PRs same thing. And like we've talked about optimizing that and making changes where, and there were technology choices that did not work there? And it got slow, and it didn't It was not fast. It did not do what the users wanted. And so we've been reeling that all out and going “Okay, that's just not right. Let's stop putting good money after bad and do it the do it the right way or the right way now.” So there's It's a it's a lot of things, not quite when I've experienced scale at GitHub historically, it's almost always two options that we've used. We go vertical scaling, particularly with databases, right? And we go horizontal scaling. Oh, we just have more people using this service. Great. We're going to add more servers, and we rack them in our data center, or we use it in a cloud. And now we're sort of in a like diagonal, where like vertical doesn't really work anymore. Horizontal isn't work either because we're all We all have some CPU or GPU constraints in the world now, and now we have to go in and like crack open services that have been running for 10 or 15 years and go, “Okay, the rules of this service have legitimately changed, and now we have to rewrite them.” None of this is an excuse. This is like we're We have to do the work. We have to make it better.Swyx [00:56:22]: actually as an infra guy, I'm “This is like one of the most fascinating scaling challenges I've ever seen.”Kyle [00:56:26]: That's that's, that's the thing that's the thing that it's hard for Like when we weren't talking about it publicly, and I was like I came out, and I was “Hey, I just want to explain what's going on.” Part of it comes from a very old GitHub ethos, which is it's our it's our uptime. It's down. W What I know you're a developer, so you're, you're inclined to want to understand more what's going on. But at the same time us going “Hey, this service didn't, perform the way we expected, and now we have to go change it,” we weren't We're not trying to hide anything from you i

Parce que… c'est l'épisode 0x303! Shameless plug 3 au 5 juin 2026 - SSTIC 2026 24 et 25 juin 2026 - Troopers 26 et 27 juin 2026 - leHACK 19 septembre 2026 - Bsides Montréal 1 au 3 décembre 2026 - Forum INCYBER - Canada 2026 24 et 25 février 2027 - SéQCure 2027 Description Dans cet épisode spécial Cybereco, Cédric Thibault partage un retour d'expérience sur le développement d'une plateforme d'automatisation de workflows de cybersécurité utilisant réellement l'IA générative. Sa motivation : il existe beaucoup de discours sur l'IA, mais peu de retours concrets de bâtisseurs qui ont fait des choix, commis des erreurs et obtenu des succès. Le problème : des analystes noyés Le constat de départ est partagé par toutes les entreprises qu'il côtoie. Face à la montée réelle des attaques — ce n'est pas qu'un argument marketing — les moyens humains restent très limités. Paradoxalement, ajouter des outils, même justifié, produit souvent l'effet inverse : cela noie davantage les équipes et réduit la capacité humaine en bout de chaîne. Son objectif est de redonner de la capacité aux clients et de remettre les analystes dans un véritable poste d'analyste. Un analyste devrait faire de l'analyse et exercer son esprit critique, pas exécuter des clics séquencés en suivant un playbook. Beaucoup de processus de sécurité existent d'ailleurs en dehors du SOC. L'exemple récurrent est le triage des courriels signalés comme hameçonnage par les utilisateurs : ces signalements s'accumulent dans une boîte cyber partagée, et les analystes valident les indicateurs, lisent les courriels et jugent leur caractère malicieux. Additionné, cet effort représente des heures, pour une tâche répétitive sans réelle valeur ajoutée — comparable à la roue d'un hamster, puisque le flux de courriels malicieux est infini. L'approche : déterminisme d'abord, IA aux points clés Cédric insiste sur le mot clé du déterminisme. Par nature, un agent IA ne sera jamais pleinement déterministe : on peut maximiser sa fiabilité sans jamais la garantir totalement. Face à la pression marketing qui promet de remplacer des équipes entières par un agent, son retour d'expérience est différent : il faut utiliser l'IA là où elle est réellement utile, et s'appuyer sur des bases solides et déterministes — du procode ou du low-code via des plateformes d'automatisation. Ces plateformes existent depuis des années, et la cybersécurité connaît bien les SOAR, mais ceux-ci sont restés cantonnés à l'univers du SOC. L'avantage de l'IA est qu'en mêlant les deux technologies — automatisation robuste et agents IA très ponctuels à des endroits clés — on obtient une valeur maximale : interaction intelligente avec les utilisateurs d'un côté, garantie que la prise d'action est exécutée par des scripts de l'autre. Bloquer le port 80 doit signifier exactement le port 80, pas une approximation. Cette fiabilité est indispensable, car aucune équipe cyber n'adoptera des processus qui ne sont pas fiables à 100 %. Cédric rappelle un constat partagé deux ou trois ans plus tôt par David Gérard : en cybersécurité, la tolérance à la déviation est nulle, et dès qu'un analyste constatait une hallucination, c'était l'abandon systématique de toute la solution. Ces abandons sont dommageables, car la technologie bien employée apporte beaucoup de valeur. Le mode « yolo » n'est pas recommandé : déployer des workflows IA en production exige une démarche très structurée et beaucoup d'ingénierie, un aspect trop peu évoqué face aux vidéos YouTube spectaculaires. L'ingénierie et l'équipe hybride Un conseil fort : ne jamais confier un projet d'ingénierie IA uniquement à des ingénieurs IA. Il faut des spécialistes de domaine. Pour un workflow anti-hameçonnage dans M365, un spécialiste M365 est nécessaire, car les API ne sont pas si simples. Cédric recommande une équipe hybride en binôme : un ingénieur IA qui maîtrise la plateforme d'automatisation et l'invocation optimale du LLM (tokens, coûts, garde-fous), et un spécialiste de contenu qui choisit le meilleur flow et la bonne façon de travailler avec les outils tiers. Concrètement, dans ce type de workflow, environ 90 % des nodes sont purement déterministes et seulement 10 % relèvent d'agents IA — mais placés au bon endroit, ils servent de « colle » permettant de finaliser le processus de bout en bout. Il déconseille d'utiliser des agents pour prendre des actions en console quand un simple script déterministe fait l'affaire, sans risque ni coût en tokens. Gestion du risque et amélioration continue Le niveau d'acceptation du risque varie selon les clients. Certains gardent un human in the loop — une alerte Teams avec un bouton « approve » ou « reject » avant toute action. D'autres, après une preuve de concept concluante, acceptent une automatisation complète, mais toujours avec des actions déterministes qui réduisent le risque sans le supprimer. Une fois les premiers résultats observés, l'effet est impressionnant : les clients veulent enrichir leurs workflows et améliorer des processus qu'ils n'optimisaient pas faute de temps. L'analyste passe alors en mode amélioration et critique. Mais il faut stabiliser des versions, car l'observabilité et l'évaluation de performance exigent des jeux de tests roulés en permanence pour garantir la stabilité, tout en développant les versions suivantes en parallèle. L'automatisation génère aussi de nombreux KPI, impossibles à obtenir dans des processus manuels, formant une boucle de rétroaction continue. Comme le reporting des plateformes low-code/no-code est souvent pauvre, son équipe exporte les logs des agents vers les SIEM des clients pour créer des tableaux de bord. Ce qu'on ne peut mesurer, on ne peut le faire évoluer. Une évolution nécessaire Cédric reprend une formule tirée d'un papier de la CSA lié à Mythos : ne pas faire évoluer ses processus de cybersécurité aujourd'hui revient à préparer ses équipes au burnout. Il ne s'agit pas que l'IA fasse tout, mais qu'elle améliore des points critiques pour décharger les analystes face à l'alert fatigue déjà bien présente. Les premiers retours clients sont très positifs. Il anticipe une adoption plus large et précise qu'il n'a pas abordé le sujet des agents personnels, un autre enjeu dont on parlera beaucoup en 2026. Collaborateurs Nicolas-Loïc Fortin Cédric Thibault Crédits Montage par Intrasecure inc Locaux réels par Cybereco

Episode 29 of Guardians of M365 Governance: Christian Buckley, Joy Apple, and Ragnar go off-script. No guest this month, just three MVPs working through a laundry list of the governance topics keeping them up at night, from Agent 365 and shadow AI to the real question underneath it all: what does it mean to be the human in the loop?In this episode we get into:00:59 The hottest news in the M365 governance space02:00 Lessons from Agent 365 customer workshops (delivered in Spanish!)03:25 What resonates: agent inventory and classification across Microsoft, third-party, and homegrown agents03:52 Shadow AI: OpenClaw, Cortex, Bedrock and why "observe or block" is the only lever today05:04 Don't be the department of "no": have the conversation first06:50 Coming soon to shadow AI discovery: Claude Code CLI, Codex CLI, Cursor, Llama and more07:19 Multi-model reality: Copilot, Grok, Claude and where each fits08:35 Mike Gennady's agent factory, nightly agent conferences, and #ClawPilot10:08 Microsoft Build preview and OpenClaw + Teams / Copilot integration11:05 New Agent 365 registry sync: Amazon Bedrock, Google Vertex AI, Databricks Genie, Salesforce Agentforce15:16 Cloud migration vs. AI: the governance parallels and the need for foundational cleanup18:00 The risk to Microsoft's strategy: enterprise vs. the developer space20:28 Licensing changes, Agent 365 pricing, and the true (unknown) cost of AI22:45 Why automating away junior roles handicaps your future talent pipeline24:01 Retrieval, semi-autonomous, and autonomous agents, and why nobody wants full autonomy yet25:33 Human in the loop on multiple levels: content cleanup, the publishing quality gate, and workflow escalation28:50 100 test cases for Power Platform alone: never underestimate the testing effort29:31 Productivity vs. effectiveness: redefining how humans work with AI31:17 AI-assisted writing done right: a 47-page doc drafted by AI, then days of human verification35:28 Handwriting vs. typing, stream-of-consciousness drafting, and thinking through the words36:36 Why the human mind can't be replicated, and Hegel on master and horse39:28 Finding your USP as a human in the loop, a daily new discoveryThe big takeaway: the discussion of the next two to three years won't be about productivity. It will be about effectiveness, and resetting the standard for what it means to keep humans meaningfully in the loop. Govern your agents as helpers, never the other way around.Guardians of M365 Governance is a monthly webcast dedicated to everything governance in the Microsoft 365 ecosystem. Got a topic you want us to cover, or want to join as a guest? Connect with Christian, Joy, or Ragnar on LinkedIn.Microsoft Build runs June 2-3, free online: https://build.microsoft.com

How can Microsoft Loop make your team more productive? Richard chats with Karinne Bessette about the role that Loop components can play in making meetings where the agenda is live, generating work items in Microsoft Planner, and keeping key information up to date. Karinne talks about how Loop components can be connected to any M365 document, including Outlook, Word, Excel, and OneNote, but only for members of the M365 tenant. Loop is a powerful tool for productivity within the organization! Links Microsoft Loop Microsoft Planner Microsoft OneNote Power Automate Loop Components in OneNote Teams Polls Polls in Loop Loop Admin Policies Recorded April 27, 2026

Explore Agent 365 with us as we break down Microsoft's new AI governance solution, covering capabilities, challenges, and why it matters for every M365 organization. DOWNLOAD THIS PODCAST

In this episode, we dig into Cowork Skills and why they represent a genuine shift from “AI as a novelty” to “AI as part of how work actually gets done.” Not more prompts. Not more tools. But fewer decisions, less friction, and more consistency across the business.  If you've ever thought “Copilot is interesting, but it's not really embedded yet”, this episode is for you. Resources CIAOPS Need to Know podcast - CIAOPS - Need to Know podcasts | CIAOPS X - https://www.twitter.com/directorcia director@ciaops.com CIAOPS Blog - CIAOPS – Information about SharePoint, Microsoft 365, Azure, Mobility and Productivity from the Computer Information Agency Join my Teams shared channel - Join my Teams Shared Channel – CIAOPS CIAOPS Merch store - CIAOPS Become a CIAOPS Patron - CIAOPS Patron CIAOPS Brief - CIA Brief – CIAOPS CIAOPS Labs - CIAOPS Labs – The Special Activities Division of the CIAOPS Support CIAOPS - Support CIAOPS Get your M365 questions answered via email Please fill out this form A special thanks to the CIAOPS Patron community for making this podcast possible. You can find the benefits of a subscription to the community and become a member at https://www.ciaopspatron.com CIAOPS MSP Skills Microsoft Build Choose how OneNote opens Microsoft 365 file links How Storm-2949 turned a compromised identity into a cloud-wide breach Disrupting Fox Tempest: A cybercrime service that turned “verified” software into a pathway for ransomware Exposing Fox Tempest: A malware-signing service operation A faster, more efficient Editor experience with Narrator in Word Launched: Microsoft 365 Copilot Adoption Hub Redesign

In today's Cloud Wars Minute, I unpack Microsoft's Work Trend Index and what it reveals about the rise of agentic AI in the workplace. Highlights 00:09 — Microsoft's 2026 Work Trend Index annual report is titled "Agents, Human Agency, and the Opportunity for Every Organization." Microsoft analyzed trillions of anonymized M365 productivity signals, surveyed upwards of 20,000 workers in 10 countries, and consulted with experts in AI, work, and organizational psychology. Here are some of the most revealing insights. 01:25 — An analysis of 100,000 Copilot chats found that 49% of conversations were focused on supporting cognitive tasks, ultimately enhancing the capabilities of these human participants. On top of that, 66% of surveyed AI users reported that AI has enabled them to dedicate more time to high-value work. 01:49 — Microsoft states that close to one in five workers are in what they call the frontier zone, which refers to what they describe as "the sweet spot where organizational capability and individual readiness reinforce each other." 02:14 — Microsoft says that the key to alignment is for companies to focus on AI absorption rather than simply AI adoption, and this involves redesigning how work is done and turning AI outputs into actionable insights. Visit Cloud Wars for more.

The most consequential development discussed is the rapid proliferation of Shadow IT in client environments, with emphasis on the unchecked adoption of cloud SaaS applications and artificial intelligence (AI) tools by end users. Speakers noted that this has led to a substantial loss of MSP control over client IT environments, eroding trusted advisor status and prompting clients to question the ongoing necessity of working with their MSP. The pervasive use of AI and SaaS products without guidance or oversight introduces governance and security risks, particularly relating to sensitive business data being accessible to third-party vendors and potentially incorporated into external data sets. The episode provided details on how Shadow IT emerges, highlighting the ease with which employees can adopt SaaS and AI tools through free trials, personal accounts, or non-business credit cards, often outside of IT's direct visibility. According to Amy and El, clients are increasingly self-serving their technology needs, shifting traditional MSP-client dynamics. The conversation outlined specific governance issues, such as most AI tools ingesting client data into the cloud, with limited assurance as to how it will be used or protected unless higher tiers of service are paid for—an unlikely scenario for most SMBs using free versions. Secondary discussion focused on broader industry fragmentation and the challenges it poses for knowledge-sharing, consensus-building, and vendor feedback. The speakers recalled a time when MSP best practices spread rapidly through tightly-knit peer groups or single platforms but observed current information channels are numerous and scattered, such as Discord, Reddit, LinkedIn, and Facebook. This dispersion hinders both MSPs and vendors from collaborating effectively and reduces the feedback loop necessary for responsive product development and operational improvement. The key implications for MSPs and IT leaders include the pressing need to shift operational models from rigid, tool-centric offerings to relationship- and advisory-focused services. There is heightened risk if MSPs fail to address governance and security concerns, especially as end users continue adopting technology independently. Speakers recommend implementing proactive client education, detailed risk analysis on SaaS and AI integrations, and establishing clear communication strategies to reclaim the advisory role. MSPs are encouraged to align compensation models to advisory activities, as future client value is projected to depend more on strategic guidance than product-resale or ticket-resolution metrics.Title: How are you managing Shadow IT? Topics: How are you managing Shadow IT? Is the MSP industry too fragmented in how we share knowledge? Why do MSPs exist? (blog posts from “Amy's Sayings”: https://www.thirdtier.net/?s=Amy%27s+sayings) What does it mean to be a M365-based MSP in 2026? Upcoming events: Zero Trust Workshop- 3 sessions starting May 28.  Register here: https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/04/27/arriving-in-may-zero-trust-workshop/ Mastermind Event with James (and Amy is a guest speaker!) in Omaha, NE Register here: https://kernanconsulting-mastermind.mykajabi.com/mastermind-event Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Are you being hit with Azure consumption constraints and/or skyrocketing M365 costs in your Azure bill? Directions' Advisory Services Director Lane Shelton shares with Mary Jo Foley his tips and advice on how to handle these issues.

Brian McGough, Principal Program Manager at Microsoft, gives a behind-the-scenes look at how change communications work across the Microsoft 365 ecosystem and what's coming next.• How Message Center has grown from 50 posts a month to over 225, and the operational complexity behind keeping hundreds of live posts up to date• The targeting system behind Message Center, from licensing-based filtering to tenant-specific notifications across multiple clouds including GCC, GCC High, and DoD• Microsoft's modernised approach to change management, introducing frontier, standard, and deferred release options that give admins more control over when changes reach their users• The new MCP servers for Message Center and Roadmap data, and how they unlock conversational, tenant-grounded insights• Why customer feedback on Message Center posts genuinely drives change, including stopping feature rollouts and reversing retirementsThanks to Landis, this episode's sponsor, for their continued support of Empowering.Cloud

SUMMARY: As AI agents become embedded in everyday work, Microsoft 365 governance is no longer a back-office compliance exercise. it's the “traction control” that lets enterprises innovate faster without losing control of their data, identities, and workflows.GUEST: Richard Harbridge, Principal Industry Advisor, Microsoft 365 at ShareGateSHOW: 1028SHOW TRANSCRIPT: The Enterprise AI Show #1028 TranscriptSHOW VIDEO: https://youtu.be/sgqg7uqErA0SHOW SPONSORS:ShareGate - ShareGate Protect. Microsoft 365 Governance. We got this.Nasuni - Activate your data for AI and request a demoSHOW NOTES:Nearly 1 in 3 Organizations Report AI-Driven Data Exposure IncidentsOther Resources:A complete checklist for Microsoft 365 governance https://sharegate.com/guides/checklist-for-microsoft-365-governance Request a demo of ShareGate: Get a 1:1 ShareGate demo tailored to your Microsoft 365 use case Article around that divide of confidence vs reality of data exposure sharegate.com/blog/93-of-it-leaders-are-confident-in-their-ai-governance-but-nearly-1-in-3-report-data-exposure-incidents The State of Microsoft 365 industry report with more stats and insights - State of Microsoft 365 2025 | Free survey report – ShareGate | Sharegate (new one coming SOON)Topic 1 - Welcome to the show. Tell us about your background, and what you focus on today. Tell us about Sharegate. Topic 2 - How has generative AI changed the definition of “governance” inside Microsoft 365 environments?Topic 3 - What are organizations underestimating about AI readiness in M365?Topic 4 - What do you think about “oversharing risk” in the era of AI assistants?Topic 5 - What patterns are you seeing around shadow AI and unsanctioned SaaS usage?Topic 6 - How should organizations rethink identity and access management for AI-driven workflows?Topic 7 - What does good AI governance look like operationally—not just as a policy document?FEEDBACK?Email: show @ the enterprise ai show dot comeBluesky: @EntAIShow.bsky.socialTwitter/X: @TheEntAIShowInstagram: @TheEntAIShow

A weekly roundup of Microsoft Cloud news with a focus on SMBs. Key topics include Microsoft's internal testing of an always-on AI assistant, major security threats such as Russian state-sponsored router hijacking and advanced phishing attacks, updates to Microsoft Teams, and a retrospective on SharePoint's evolution. Robert also discusses the challenges and strategies for adopting AI in business, emphasizing the need for a unified, collaborative approach to AI usage within organizations. Resources CIAOPS Need to Know podcast - CIAOPS - Need to Know podcasts | CIAOPS X - https://www.twitter.com/directorcia director@ciaops.com CIAOPS Blog - CIAOPS – Information about SharePoint, Microsoft 365, Azure, Mobility and Productivity from the Computer Information Agency Join my Teams shared channel - Join my Teams Shared Channel – CIAOPS CIAOPS Merch store - CIAOPS Become a CIAOPS Patron - CIAOPS Patron CIAOPS Brief - CIA Brief – CIAOPS CIAOPS Labs - CIAOPS Labs – The Special Activities Division of the CIAOPS Support CIAOPS - Support CIAOPS Get your M365 questions answered via email Please fill out this form A special thanks to the CIAOPS Patron community for making this podcast possible. You can find the benefits of a subscription to the community and become a member at https://www.ciaopspatron.com   Microsoft tests 'ClawPilot' AI agent for 3,000 staff SOHO router compromise leads to DNS hijacking and adversary-in-the-middle attacks What's New in Microsoft Teams | April 2026 ClickFix campaign uses fake macOS utilities lures to deliver infostealers The Future of SharePoint Breaking the code: Multi-stage ‘code of conduct' phishing campaign leads to AiTM token compromise

Den här veckan har Amanda, Ola och Simon helt snöat in på Copilot och AI. Det pratas Cowork, vibe coding och den nya uppdatering kring Copilot kom i början av april kring företag som är större eller mindre än 2000 användare.Länkar till det vi pratade om:GitHub Copilot - It's not just for Devs - Steven HoskingMicrosoft backtracks on Copilot Chat access in M365 apps – Computerworld---------------------------------------------Följ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vi jobbar med data på LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amanda | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BlueSky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Simon | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BlueSky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ola | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BlueSky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Today’s headline news for Canadian IT solution providers: Integris, a managed AI and IT services firm backed by OMERS Private Equity, has announced its intent to acquireFirst Focus, the largest managed service provider serving small and midsize businesses across Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines. The deal, subject to regulatory approval, is designed to extend Integris’ geographic reach while accelerating delivery of AI-enabled managed services across regions. For the channel, the transaction is a clear expression of the platform MSP consolidation trend playing out globally through private equity – and for Canadian observers, the OMERS connection is notable: the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System is the PE backer driving this international build-out. Cybersecurity vendor NeuShield has announced a partnership with Ontario-based MSP Data Guards to deliver instant ransomware recovery services to clients. In a documented real-world use case, the companies reported restoring more than 6.2 terabytes of encrypted data in just fifteen minutes – a recovery window NeuShield says would have taken more than five days using traditional backup methods. By integrating NeuShield Data Sentinel into its managed security stack, Data Guards can offer one-click recovery of corrupted data and storage-layer protection against ransomware and file tampering, reflecting a broader market shift as solution providers move beyond prevention and detection to guarantee client data remains continuously recoverable without system rebuilds. ThreatLabs Europe, the research arm of ThreatDown, has discovered threat actors weaponizing AI agent skills to deliver the GachiLoader infostealer. Attackers are using a fake OpenClaw AI agent skill as a lure to inject the Rhadamanthys infostealer directly into memory, leveraging the Polygon blockchain for command and control to bypass traditional perimeter defenses. The malware harvests cryptocurrency wallets, browser credentials, Telegram messages, and password manager contents. The discovery is a direct warning for the channel: as non-human identities proliferate in client environments, identity and access management practices must now account for the vulnerabilities introduced by AI agents – not just human users. In brief: Sublime Security has launched its first formal channel partner program and announced a move to a 100 percent channel sales model, with dedicated reseller and MSSP tracks. The agentic email security platform uses a rules-plus-AI approach it says catches attacks that signature-based tools and generic AI products miss. Konica Minolta has announced the spring 2026 launch of the AccurioPress C5080 Series, a new line of digital production presses designed for high-volume commercial printing environments. Forescout has launched Mission:Possible, the company’s biggest channel partner tour in 25 years, spanning more than 90 cities globally between May and September. The immersive events are built around hands-on IT, OT, IoT, and industrial security challenges, with the goal of sharpening partner positioning around zero trust and continuous threat exposure management. Microsoft 365 E7 goes generally available today at $99 per user per month, bundling Microsoft 365 Copilot, the Entra Suite, and advanced compliance capabilities in a single commercial tier. Microsoft’s Q3 earnings this week confirmed Copilot has crossed 20 million paid seats – E7’s launch signals the next phase of the AI licensing conversation for solution providers. Read Full Transcript Welcome to The Buzz from ChannelBuzz.ca, I’m Robert Dutt, today is Friday, May 1, 2026, and here’s what’s happening in the channel today. Integris, a managed AI and IT services firm backed by OMERS Private Equity, has announced its intent to acquire First Focus, the largest managed service provider serving small and midsize businesses across Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines. The deal is subject to regulatory approval and is designed to extend Integris’ geographic footprint while accelerating delivery of secure, scalable AI capabilities across regions. For the channel, it’s a clear example of the platform MSP consolidation trend playing out globally – and for Canadian observers specifically, it’s worth noting that OMERS, the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System, is the private equity backer driving this international build-out. Cybersecurity vendor NeuShield has announced a partnership with Canadian MSP Data Guards to deliver instant ransomware recovery services to clients. In a real-world use case that highlights the collaboration, the companies reported successfully restoring more than 6.2 terabytes of encrypted data in just fifteen minutes. According to NeuShield, this compares to more than five days that would have been required using traditional backup methods. By integrating NeuShield Data Sentinel into its managed security stack, Data Guards can offer one-click recovery of corrupted data and protection at the storage layer against ransomware and file tampering. The partnership underscores a broader trend in the market, as solution providers increasingly move beyond prevention and detection to ensure client data remains continuously recoverable without the need to rebuild systems from scratch. ThreatLabs Europe, the research arm of ThreatDown, has discovered that threat actors are now weaponizing AI agent skills to deliver the GachiLoader infostealer. According to the company, attackers are using a fake OpenClaw AI agent skill as a lure to inject the Rhadamanthys infostealer directly into memory. The attack utilizes the Polygon blockchain for command and control instructions, allowing it to bypass many traditional perimeter defenses to harvest cryptocurrency wallets, browser credentials, Telegram messages, and password managers. As malicious actors increasingly exploit the expanding footprint of non-human identities, the discovery serves as a clear warning to the channel. IT professionals must ensure comprehensive identity and access management practices account for the vulnerabilities introduced by AI agents operating within client environments. In Brief –  Sublime Security plans to go 100 percent channel Konica Minolta has announced the spring 2026 launch of its AccurioPress C5080 Series for digital production environments.  Forescout goes on Mission:Possible partner tour And finally, today's the day for the launch of Microsoft 365 E7  Full details and links in the show notes or the blog post. Later today on In The Channel, we continue our coverage from SAS Innovate 2026, as we talk to SAS global channel chief John Carey about four years building out the channel program for the analytics company, the increasing role of MSPs, and how his own goals for the partner portion of the company's revenues are evolving. And if you haven’t heard it yet, yesterday’s episode featured my chat with SAS Canada leader Ryan MacDonald on the state of the AI opportunity in Canada, the role of partners, and why the value of SAS may be hidden to some customers. That’s how we’re seeing the headlines today. I’m Robert Dutt for ChannelBuzz.ca, thanks for listening. Have a great day.

There's competition in the Office productivity space! Richard chats with Sharon Weaver about her experiences with M365 Copilot and Anthropic's Claude Cowork to improve information worker productivity. Sharon talks about the confusion around all the different copilots in the Microsoft space - including the chat tools, research agents, and more. But when it comes to helping with an Excel spreadsheet, M365 Copilot can't do what Claude Cowork can do. Sharon talks about describing the goals of a spreadsheet to Claude Cowork and having the tool generate the spreadsheet, make corrections, and add formatting. Cowork has similar capabilities for presentations, and with the Connector library, new functionality is being added routinely. There's some competition in the AI productivity space - things are getting interesting! Links Microsoft 365 Copilot Researcher in Microsoft 365 Copilot Claude Cowork Claude Cowork Connectors Copilot in PowerPoint Recorded February 24, 2026

One IT department expected 50 agents in their tenant. They found over 500. Welcome to agent sprawl — the SharePoint site sprawl story, just faster, more autonomous, and with a billing model nobody fully understands yet.In this episode, Christian Buckley and Ragnar Heil sit down with Timothy Boettcher, SVP Go-to-Market & Global Product Marketing at AvePoint and fellow Microsoft MVP, to talk about what governance actually looks like when agents start creating other agents.

I reflect on the significance of the day before diving into the week's major developments, including the arrival of the Microsoft AI Tour in Sydney. The episode covers both partner and public events, with a focus on enterprise-level AI advancements and networking opportunities. The podcast features a comprehensive weekly news roundup: The general availability of Copilot Agent capabilities in Microsoft 365 apps. New data security tools for AI in Microsoft Purview. Innovations in identity resilience and backup with Microsoft Entra. Microsoft's $25 billion investment in Australian AI infrastructure and training. Practical security playbooks for tenant protection and device analytics. Updates on decluttering promotional mail with Microsoft Defender. Guidance on preventing oversharing in Copilot, deploying Defender, and enforcing data security with Purview. I also share my workflow for automating podcast production using Copilot Cowork, including narration scripts and link management. I discuss experimenting with AI-driven voice narration and invites listener feedback on pacing and voice options. The episode concludes with reflections on the Microsoft AI Tour's enterprise focus, the importance of networking, and the challenges SMBs face in accessing relevant content. Listeners are encouraged to reach out with questions or feedback and to stay tuned for upcoming events like Microsoft Build and Ignite. Resources CIAOPS Need to Know podcast - CIAOPS - Need to Know podcasts | CIAOPS X - https://www.twitter.com/directorcia director@ciaops.com CIAOPS Blog - CIAOPS – Information about SharePoint, Microsoft 365, Azure, Mobility and Productivity from the Computer Information Agency Join my Teams shared channel - Join my Teams Shared Channel – CIAOPS CIAOPS Merch store - CIAOPS Become a CIAOPS Patron - CIAOPS Patron CIAOPS Brief - CIA Brief – CIAOPS CIAOPS Labs - CIAOPS Labs – The Special Activities Division of the CIAOPS Support CIAOPS - Support CIAOPS Get your M365 questions answered via email Please fill out this form A special thanks to the CIAOPS Patron community for making this podcast possible. You can find the benefits of a subscription to the community and become a member at https://www.ciaopspatron.com   Microsoft 365 Insider Round-Up — April 2026 Declutter and Defend: Reducing Promotional Mail Noise with Microsoft Defender Prevent Oversharing in Microsoft 365 Copilot Microsoft Defender Deployment Tool From Oversharing to Enforcement: A Practical Guide to AI Data Security with Microsoft Purview Investing in Australia's AI Future Copilot's Agentic Capabilities in Word, Excel and PowerPoint Are Generally Available Predictive Shielding: Just-in-Time Tamper Protection Threat Hunting Agent in Advanced Hunting Bringing Transparency to AI-Generated Content with Watermarks in Microsoft 365 Microsoft 365 Copilot Readiness and Resiliency with SharePoint and Microsoft 365 Backup Introducing the Microsoft Sentinel Training Lab A Practical Look at Device Analytics and Risk Signals with Microsoft Intune Innovations in OneDrive for Collaboration, Intelligence and Control Strengthening Identity Resilience: A Deep Dive Into Microsoft Entra Backup and Recovery Detection Strategies for Cloud Identities Against Infiltrating IT Workers (Jasper Sleet) Safeguarding Sensitive Data in Microsoft 365 Copilot Interactions: DLP for Microsoft 365 Copilot Detecting Plain-Text Password Exposure Using Custom Regex in Microsoft Purview Cross-Tenant Helpdesk Impersonation to Data Exfiltration: A Human-Operated Intrusion Playbook  

Welcome to Episode 426 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast.Ben and Scott are back together this week to talk through Microsoft 365 Copilot Cowork, including how it compares to Claude Cowork and where each one makes sense. The two products share a name but work pretty differently. Claude Cowork runs locally on your desktop and can access files on your machine, supports MCP server connections while M365 Copilot Cowork runs in the cloud, requires files to be in OneDrive, and does not support MCP connectors yet. On the flip side, the Microsoft version runs scheduled tasks without needing your machine to be on, has native access to all your M365 data through Graph, and fits inside your existing compliance and security controls through Purview, which matters a lot for regulated organizations. Your support makes this show possible! Please consider becoming a premium member for access to live shows and more. Check out our membership options. Show Notes Quentin Amaudry – As everyone knows, Cowork is coming within Copilot and it is extremely promising Copilot Cowork vs Claude Cowork: Same AI, Different Worlds Copilot Cowork: A new way of getting work done Cowork overview (Frontier) About the sponsors   TrustedTech is a leading Microsoft Cloud Solution Provider (CSP) specializing in Microsoft Cloud services, Microsoft perpetual licensing, and Microsoft Support Services for medium and enterprise-sized businesses. Our robust team of in-house, U.S-based Microsoft architects and engineers are certified in all 6/6 Microsoft Solutions Partner Designations in the Microsoft Cloud Partner Program. M365 Licensing Consultation M365 Tenant Assessment Copilot Readiness Assessment Your migration and governance solution for Microsoft 365. ShareGate helps your teams simplify tenant migrations, get Copilot-ready, and take control of Microsoft 365 governance. Nasuni is a leading unstructured data platform for enterprises where file data is mission-critical for both people and AI. We power the operational file layer where work happens — helping organizations manage, protect, and activate data so teams can work smarter, reduce costs, and operate securely without limits. Visit nasuni.com to learn more. Would you like to become the irreplaceable Microsoft 365 resource for your organization? Let us know!

AI Weekly: Claude 4.7, Token Costs, Open Models, Backlash, and Practical Ways to Use AI In this weekend "Project Synapse" episode, the hosts review major AI developments, including Anthropic's release of Claude Opus 4.7 (with rapid complaints about lying and token/cost issues) and discussion of the broader shift toward tighter token economics, enterprise budgeting pressure, and Microsoft's evolving M365 licensing that bundles Copilot and agents. They note growing AI backlash ranging from local resistance to data centers and concerns about profitability to reports of attacks on Sam Altman's home. The conversation covers open and Chinese models (agentic coding and multimodal image generation) and the strategic impact of open weights. They also highlight real-world uses: automating documentation, internal Q&A knowledge bases, customer service (including Starlink using Grok), research and editing workflows, book marketing, document drafting, email/search, and accounting/expense automation—while emphasizing hallucinations and verification. Hashtag Trending would like to thank Meter for their support in bringing you this podcast. Meter delivers a complete networking stack, wired, wireless and cellular in one integrated solution that's built for performance and scale. You can find them at Meter.com/htt 00:00 Sponsor and Welcome 01:18 Lightning Round Setup 02:34 Claude Opus 4.7 Reactions 08:22 Token Costs and Enterprise Pricing 12:45 Valuations Profit and UBI Debate 19:14 Backlash Data Centres and Supply Chain 31:29 Copilot Hallucination at Work 33:32 China Agentic Coding Model 37:43 Practical AI Wins and New Threats 44:18 AI Crime Scale 45:24 Everyday AI Wins 48:29 Lightning Round Demo 50:17 Open Source Shockwave 52:32 Deepfake Son Dilemma 58:20 AI Marketing Playbook 01:02:23 Editing and Fact Checks 01:05:09 Ethics and Authenticity 01:16:27 AI First Checklist 01:22:28 Tooling Gets Better 01:25:35 Wrap and Sponsor

Hey friends! After last week's heavy episode about my wife's health scare in Punta Cana, today's is a lighter one. (Quick update: she's doing better – still recovering, but appetite's back and she's got some pep again. Thanks so much to everyone who sent kind messages.) Today I'm gushing about how AI has been making my IT and security life way more efficient: Firewall migration: Had AI walk me through a WatchGuard T15W → T25W migration (no clean config export path). AI captured everything – screenshots, branch office VPN, VLANs, firewall rules, DHCP reservations – all organized and replayed step-by-step. The whole project took ~1 hr 15 min (plus 30 min hunting down a subnet typo that was 100% my fault). GOAD lab automation: Worked with AI to build a script that handles the full lifecycle of my Light Pentest GOAD student lab – tear it down, rebuild from latest, assign Tommy Boy-themed passwords and sync user accounts to the Apache Guacamole and lab connections. Speaking of which – Light Pentest GOAD class will be re-offered soon once the calendar firms up! External pentest wrapper scripts: Finally automated the boring auxiliary testing stuff – nmap, Shodan API, Nessus queuing, subdomain hijacking checks, metadata searches, cred spraying against M365, sysleaks lookups – all correlated and deduplicated into one push-button menu. SysReptor automation: If you're not using SysReptor for reporting, check it out. Piping JSON findings straight into reports via API as I test has been a game-changer. A webinar on this might be in 7MinSec's future. Got cool ways you're using AI for IT/security work? We'd love to hear them!

La directive est claire : les diplomates américains sont appelés à s'opposer activement aux lois étrangères qui encadrent les données des entreprises américaines. ⚔️Après le DSA et le DMA, c'est donc au tour du RGPD d'être dans le viseur des autorités américaines.Ce n'est plus seulement une guerre commerciale ou technologique. C'est une bataille réglementaire frontale, où la protection des données des Européens devient un enjeu de politique étrangère américaine.Pendant ce temps, les entreprises européennes continuent de s'appuyer massivement sur des outils américains pour traiter leurs données les plus sensibles. Et les décideurs IT se retrouvent coincés entre deux feux : la pression de la conformité d'un côté, et la peur de se passer d'outils ancrés dans leurs habitudes. Mais la bascule vers plus de souveraineté numérique semble inéluctable, tant les signaux d'un rééquilibrage s'accumulent. Et c'est précisément ce qu'analyse Alain et Benoît dans ce nouvel épisode de Au-delà du live, la revue d'actualité mensuelle dédiée au numérique.Au programme du 60ème épisode : ⚔️ Washington part en croisade contre le RGPD☁️ Agentique & cloud souverain : le duo clé pour déployer l'IA en entreprise ?

Mythos Sparks Urgent Bank Meetings, AI Shrinks Exploit Windows, CEO Phishing Beats MFA + Crypto Fraud Bust Cybersecurity Today  would like to thank Meter for their support in bringing you this podcast. Meter delivers a complete networking stack, wired, wireless and cellular in one integrated solution that's built for performance and scale.  You can find them at Meter.com/cst Host David Shipley covers urgent meetings among U.S., Canadian, and U.K. financial leaders after Anthropic's Mythos announcement, with regulators and major banks assessing potential systemic risk; Mythos is described as capable of finding and chaining zero-days and is limited to a preview program (Project Glasswing) with select critical infrastructure and tech firms. The episode highlights how fast vulnerabilities are now exploited, citing a critical Marimo flaw patched in 0.2.3.0 that attackers probed within 9 hours and research showing AI can generate exploits from CVEs in 10–15 minutes. It then details "Venom," an invitation-only phishing-as-a-service targeting executives via QR codes to hijack sessions and register new devices, and Microsoft's warning about Storm-2755 redirecting Canadian paychecks by stealing M365 session cookies and altering direct-deposit details. Finally, Operation Atlantic is summarized: authorities identified 20,000 crypto-fraud victims, froze $12M, and linked $45M in stolen crypto tied to approval phishing. 00:00 Headlines and Sponsor 00:57 Mythos Shakes Finance 04:58 AI Exploit Window Collapses 08:11 Venom Targets Executives 11:54 Payroll Redirect Scam 14:35 Crypto Fraud Takedown 16:47 Wrap Up and Thanks 18:04 Sponsor Outro

In this episode of the CIAOPS Need to Know podcast, we take an AI‑first look at what's happening across the Microsoft Cloud and what it really means for small and medium businesses. Episode 362 cuts through the noise to focus on the practical, real‑world impact of artificial intelligence as Microsoft continues to embed AI across Microsoft 365, Azure, and everyday productivity tools. We discuss how an AI‑first mindset is changing the way SMBs should think about security, productivity, and operational efficiency, along with what partners and IT professionals need to pay attention to right now. Expect clear explanations, informed opinions, and actionable insights designed to help you make sense of rapid change without the hype. Resources CIAOPS Need to Know podcast - CIAOPS - Need to Know podcasts | CIAOPS X - https://www.twitter.com/directorcia director@ciaops.com CIAOPS Blog - CIAOPS – Information about SharePoint, Microsoft 365, Azure, Mobility and Productivity from the Computer Information Agency Join my Teams shared channel - Join my Teams Shared Channel – CIAOPS CIAOPS Merch store - CIAOPS Become a CIAOPS Patron - CIAOPS Patron CIAOPS Brief - CIA Brief – CIAOPS CIAOPS Labs - CIAOPS Labs – The Special Activities Division of the CIAOPS Support CIAOPS - Support CIAOPS Get your M365 questions answered via email Please fill out this form A special thanks to the CIAOPS Patron community for making this podcast possible. You can find the benefits of a subscription to the community and become a member at https://www.ciaopspatron.com  

The episode centers on profit margins and service mix strategies for MSPs, emphasizing the importance of maintaining recurring revenue margins above 50%, preferably targeting 65–70% for long-term sustainability. Industry averages indicate recurring revenue margins as low as 35%, which Speaker B and Speaker C note presents a risk to driving profit down to the bottom line. The discussion identifies that margins tend to erode with organizational growth due to overhead but underscores the necessity of regular price adjustments built into client contracts and regular scrutiny of margin performance as core practices to avoid financial shortfalls. Supporting these observations, Speaker C advises MSPs to gradually move from lower margin brackets to achieve at least 50% in recurring services, acknowledging this transition typically requires sustained effort over several years. For professional services, a margin range of 40–60% is considered attainable, with 50% as the practical target. Regarding income mix, respondents suggest 70% of revenue should derive from recurring services and the remaining 30% from professional or project-based work. Both speakers highlight that smaller MSPs may achieve higher margins, while competitive pressure and organizational complexity often erode these numbers. Adjacent discussions address operational and security challenges. The show covers recent FBI public service announcements warning of increased cyber threats originating from Russian and Iranian actors, specifically targeting government, political, and journalist entities. Speaker C and Speaker B recommend that MSPs communicate only the most relevant advisories to clients to avoid information overload, framing updates as evidence of service diligence rather than sources of alarm. In addition, Microsoft's new AI security dashboard in Microsoft 365 is reviewed, which uses Defender sensors already present in Windows 11 devices to provide visibility into AI activity and configuration security at no extra cost, provided suitable licensing for Defender is in place. The operational implications for MSPs include the need for rigor in pricing models, clear partnership agreements, and transparent communications with clients about both technology changes and external threats. The recurring emphasis on risk management, margin preservation, and responsible client engagement reflects a harm-reduction mindset. Regular contract reviews, maintaining consultative relationships, and avoiding over-communication of security issues are presented as accountability measures that support stability and trust in MSP operations.Question of the week: What margins should I be targeting? And what is the mix that I should be shooting for? Recurring Professional services Product sales   Talking to clients about international affairs. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) are jointly issuing this public service announcement (PSA) to warn the public about ongoing phishing campaigns by cyber actors associated with the Russian Intelligence Services (RIS) targeting commercial messaging applications. The activity targets individuals of high intelligence value, such as current and former U.S. government officials, military personnel, political figures, and journalists. https://www.ic3.gov/PSA/2026/PSA260320   The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is releasing this FLASH to disseminate information on malicious cyber activity conducted by actors on behalf of the Government of Iran Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS). Specifically, MOIS cyber actors are responsible for using Telegram as a command-and-control (C2) infrastructure to push malware targeting Iranian dissidents, journalists opposed to Iran, and other opposition groups around the world. This malware resulted in intelligence collection, data leaks, and reputational harm against the targeted parties. https://www.ic3.gov/CSA/2026/260320.pdf   New AI Security Dashboard for M365. Requires Defender onboarding to be effective  Check it out: https://AI.security.microsoft.com Learn: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/microsoft-security-blog/security-dashboard-for-ai---now-generally-available/449463   Amy's class is now available for purchase at Coassemble.  This is her Create your AI Service Package.  The purpose of the course is to consider all of the things that you might want to include in your offering. https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/03/20/create-your-ai-management-package/  Coassemble: https://coassemble.com/c/0ZKD2Z Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Configuration drift is real - how do you control it in your Azure tenant? Richard talks to Nik Charlebois-Laprade about his ongoing work on desired state configuration DSC for Microsoft 365 tenants. Microsoft365DSC has been an open-source tool for managing configuration for some time, but today it has become a preview product called Unified Tenant Configuration in Microsoft Graph. Nik talks about managing multiple tenants, including a single tenant, using reference configurations that help you detect and correct configuration changes. It's early days for the product, but there's a ton of power here to keep your tenant working the way you expect!LinksMicrosoft365DSCUnified Tenant ConfigurationRecorded February 13, 2026

The Irish Tech News Podcast is now 10 years old ,and over the years we have covered a wide variety of tech topics over 1700 episodes. To celebrate this milestone I have a very special guest, Alexia Cambon appearing on the podcast. Alexia, is a senior director of research at Microsoft and I caught up with her at the recent Microsoft AI Summit in Dublin.Alexia talks about her background, AI in the work place, intelligence work, writing for AI, copilot, and more.More about Alexia Cambon:Alexia leads research for the Future of Work & M365 team as a Senior Director at Microsoft, working to identify emerging research opportunities and delving into customers' most pressing workforce challenges. She co-leads Microsoft's cross-company research initiative examining AI's impact on productivity and performance, and is a seasoned presenter and speaker with a passion for storytelling and creative thinking. Alexia's areas of focus include AI, hybrid work design, and organisational culture. She has written for HBR and The Guardian, and has been featured in NPR, Forbes and The Times (UK).

It's going to be easier to identify bots joining your meetings with a dedicated section singling them out. SharePoint and OneDrive agents will soon allow a list to be a source for your chats. This week we also chat about two confusing messages that announced the removal of agent capabilities in M365 apps for people without an M365 license. 0:00 Introduction 2:26 New admin control for AI‑generated code previews in Microsoft 365 Copilot Pages - MC1254560 6:15 Copilot Notebooks: New features coming to Frontier Public - MC1254552 11:00 Designer tools in Copilot - MC1256040 15:34 Microsoft 365 Copilot Chat - Updates to Copilot in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote - MC1253858 18:40 Microsoft 365 Copilot Chat - Updates to Copilot in Word, Excel, and PowerPoint - MC1253863 22:12 Lists as a knowledge source for agents in SharePoint and OneDrive - MC1255409 24:53 Whiteboards created in Teams channels will now be stored in SharePoint - MC1253753 27:04 Microsoft Teams: Identify external bots joining your Teams meetings - MC1251206

Guest Host John Caviness joins us to explore the role of M365 license reselling services and discuss how the right partner can deliver more than just procurement. From optimizing license spend and simplifying billing to providing governance guidance, security alignment, and proactive support, resellers can become strategic advisors that help organizations get the most out of their Microsoft investment. Moser's own Matt Wren and Steven Frank break down common misconceptions, highlight real-world value-add scenarios, and discuss how businesses can evaluate whether a reseller partnership is the right move for their organization. 

Beyond the known price tag and release date, there are still a lot of E7 unknowns. Directions' Advisory Services Director Lane Shelton shares his E7 educated guesses and customer advice with Mary Jo Foley.

Anthropic is fighting the government in court. Microsoft is turning to Anthropic to get agentic in all its productivity products. A big new hyperscaler startup has raised a monster round. And could the war with Iran be something that could pop the AI bubble? Anthropic is suing the Department of Defense (The Verge) Microsoft announces Copilot Cowork with help from Anthropic — a cloud-powered AI agent that works across M365 apps (VentureBeat) Nscale Raises $2 Billion and Adds Sandberg, Clegg to Board (Bloomberg) Iran War Imperils $300 Billion in Gulf AI Spending (The Information) When Using AI Leads to “Brain Fry” (HBR) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Microsoft 365 etiquette matters more than you think.”In this episode, we share our experiences when communicating using different channels in M365. From ‘hello' messages with no context, to unmuted meetings and unreadable emails, small habits create big friction. Teams' messages, replies, and many more, we talk about few etiquettes we try to follow.Use clear messages, respect focus time, and let Copilot help with tone and timing—because good etiquette is really about respecting people's time. DOWNLOAD THIS PODCAST

199: Moderne Assistenz, smarte Tools und Microlearning, so sieht erfolgreiche Zusammenarbeit 2026 aus! In dieser Podcastfolge sprechen Florian Sandmann-Reetz und Dorothea Steinmetz über moderne Führung, Assistenz auf Augenhöhe und den strategischen Einsatz von Microsoft 365, Copilot und dem neuen Outlook. Du erfährst: - Warum Vertrauen wichtiger ist als Mikromanagement - Wie Aufgabenmanagement mit Outlook, Planner & To Do wirklich funktioniert - Warum das neue Outlook besser ist als sein Ruf - Wie Copilot und KI den Arbeitsalltag verändern - Weshalb Microlearning die Zukunft der Weiterbildung ist Außerdem geht es um Remote-Onboarding, Teamkultur, Delegation und die Rolle der Assistenz im digitalen Wandel. Wenn dich Themen wie Microsoft 365, Copilot, Outlook-Tipps, Assistenz 4.0, Microlearning, KI im Büro und modernes Leadership interessieren, ist diese Folge ein absolutes Muss.   Florian Sandmann-Reetz ... ... ist Gründer, Geschäftsführer und Lead-Trainer der ArtReich GmbH und spezialisiert auf Microsoft 365. Er hat in den letzten 30 Jahren über 2.500 Seminare mit über 4.000 Schulungstagen und mehr als 30.000 Teilnehmenden realisiert. Zudem ist er bekannt aus seinen diversen Social-Media-Kanälen, in denen er regelmäßig Tipps & Tricks zu den Tools von Microsoft liefert. Mit der „ArtReich Microlearning-Community" hat er einen Ort geschaffen, der Menschen vernetzt und kompakte Lerninhalte zu allen Themen rund um M365 bietet.   Dorothea Steinmetz ... ... hat nach ihrem geisteswissenschaftlichen Studium den Weg in die Assistenz gewählt. Von der persönlichen Assistenz auf Führungsebene bis zur Leitung administrativer Strukturen hat sie ein breites Aufgabenspektrum kennengelernt und schätzt es sehr, dabei ihr Organisationsgeschick, ihre schnelle Auffassungsgabe und ihr Gespür für Menschen einbringen zu können. Sie versteht Assistenz nicht als statische Rolle, sondern als Feld, das sie aktiv und auf Augenhöhe mit der Führungskraft gestaltet.   Links:

This episode of the M365 Voice podcast featured Deep Trivedi, talking to us about his journey from a non‑technical background into the M365 ecosystem, driven by curiosity, learning, and cybersecurity. He highlights how surprisingly welcoming, hospitable, and encouraging the community has been, helping him find confidence and a clear place to contribute. DOWNLOAD THIS PODCAST

In this episode I'm joined by Shervin Shaffie from Microsoft to do a deep dive into Copilot Studio. That's the service from Microsoft that allows you to create agents in a 'low-code' manner right inside the M365 environment. Shervin has some great Youtube content I highly recommend and provides some great insights and tips and tricks in this episode when working with agents in Microsoft 365. I'll also brin you up to date with the latest Microsoft Cloud news. Listen along. Resources Explore the tools, communities, and content mentioned in this episode: CIAOPS Need to Know Podcast: https://ciaops.podbean.com/  CIAOPS Blog: https://blog.ciaops.com/  CIAOPS Labs: https://blog.ciaopslabs.com/  CIAOPS Brief: https://blog.ciaops.com/tag/cia-brief/  Join the Teams Shared Channel: https://blog.ciaops.com/2022/07/29/join-my-teams-shared-channel/  CIAOPS Merch Store: https://my-store-c5d877-2.creator-spring.com/  CIAOPS Publications: https://directorcia.gumroad.com  Become a Patron: https://www.ciaopspatron.com/  Direct Support: https://ko-fi.com/ciaops  Get Your M365 Questions Answered: https://blog.ciaops.com/2025/06/11/get-your-m365-questions-answered-via-email-2/  Test Your Microsoft 365 Speed: https://blog.ciaops.com/2025/07/21/test-your-microsoft-365-speed-in-seconds-for-free/  CIAOPS Email list - https://bit.ly/cia-email   Show Notes Shervin Shaffie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherv/  Principal Copilot Engineer at Microsoft Collaboration Simplified YouTube: https://youtube.com/@collaborationsimplified   All About AI Podcast: https://cosi.pro/aipodcast  FY26 Q2 - Press Releases - Investor Relations - Microsoft   The Microsoft Copilot Data Connector for Microsoft Sentinel is Now in Public Preview | Microsoft Community Hub   Secure Boot playbook for certificates expiring in 2026   SharePoint Showcase highlights: Copilot and agents governance and security essentials for admins   What's New in Microsoft 365 Copilot | January 2026 | Microsoft Community Hub   Upcoming Conditional Access change: Improved enforcement for policies with resource exclusions  

Con el comienzo del nuevo año es importante repasar lo aprendido en 2025 para adelantarnos a las amenazas que se nos vienen en 2026 y justo eso es lo que vamos a hacer en este nuevo episodio de Tierra de Hackers, ⭐️ SPONSORS ⭐️ ️‍♂️ Flare Flare es una plataforma de inteligencia de amenazas y monitoreo de la Dark Web que te ayuda a estar un paso por delante de los ciber-delincuentes. Puedes solicitar una prueba gratuita como oyente de Tierra de Hackers aquí:  https://try.flare.io/martin-vigo/ ️ Prowler Audita y mejora tu seguridad en AWS, Azure, GCP, Kubernetes y M365 con visibilidad centralizada. Solicita una prueba gratuita en el siguiente link:  https://prowler.com/?utm_source=tierra_de_hackers REDES SOCIALES - Twitter: https://twitter.com/tierradehackers - Instagram: https://instagram.com/tierradehackers - TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@tierradehackers - LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/tierradehackers - Facebook: https://facebook.com/tierradehackers Únete al canal oficial de Discord para conectar con la comunidad de Tierra de Hackers: https://tierradehackers.com/discord Apóyanos en Patreon y obtén beneficios exclusivos y merchandising: https://patreon.com/tierradehackers CAPÍTULOS 03:07 Tendencias en Ciberseguridad para 2023 12:02 El Impacto del Phishing 20:09 La Identidad como Nuevo Perímetro 29:20 Intrusiones sin Malware 31:35 Hackeando servicios expuestos 33:52 Los cambios a la hora de atacar empresas 36:43 La evolución de Ransomware 39:21 Convergencia de las técnicas usadas entre grupos APT y cibercriminales 44:58 El aumento de la velocidad 49:35 Vulnerabilidades en infraestructura crítica 52:33 Ciber-operaciones y geopolítica 57:12 Amenazas en las nuevas tecnologías 01:00:38 Mis predicciones personales Notas, links y referencias del episodio: https://www.tierradehackers.com/episodio-141

News and Updates: California Data Privacy Law- California's new Delete Act lets residents demand mass deletion of personal data from brokers via one website, signaling the strongest U.S. pushback yet against covert data surveillance. iRobot Bankruptcy & Privacy Fears- iRobot's bankruptcy and acquisition by Chinese supplier Picea raise alarms over Roomba home-mapping data security, despite CEO assurances data stays U.S.-hosted and privacy practices remain unchanged. Prison Cell Phone Jamming Debate- Wireless carriers warn FCC prison phone jamming proposals would block all communications, including 911, arguing managed access systems already stop contraband phones without disrupting lawful wireless, Wi-Fi, or GPS signals. Microsoft 365 Copilot Branding Confusion- Microsoft did not rename Office to Copilot, but confusing app rebrands and Office.com messaging blurred lines between Microsoft 365 subscriptions and the Microsoft 365 Copilot hub app. Tesla Loses “Cybercab” Trademark- Tesla lost its Cybercab trademark after filing late, allowing a French company to claim it, another branding stumble following earlier failures to trademark “Robotaxi” for being overly generic.

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Notas y referencias en https://www.tierradehackers.com/episodio-140 Puedes apoyar este Podcast en Patreon y obtener beneficios exclusivos. Además, estarás ayudando a que siga publicándose muchos años más. https://www.tierradehackers.com/patreon/ ⭐️ SPONSORS ⭐️ ️‍♂️ Flare Flare es una plataforma de inteligencia de amenazas y monitoreo de la Dark Web que te ayuda a estar un paso por delante de los ciber-delincuentes. Puedes solicitar una prueba gratuita como oyente de Tierra de Hackers aquí:  https://try.flare.io/martin-vigo/ ️ Prowler Audita y mejora tu seguridad en AWS, Azure, GCP, Kubernetes y M365 con visibilidad centralizada. Solicita una prueba gratuita en el siguiente link:  https://prowler.com/?utm_source=tierra_de_hackers ️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/tierradehackers  Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/tierradehackers ➡️ Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/tierradehackers ➡️ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tierradehackers ➡️ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tierradehackers ➡️ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tierradehackers ➡️ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tierradehackers No olvides unirte a nuestra comunidad de Discord:  https://www.tierradehackers.com/discord

Podcast DescriptionIn Episode 189 of The Citrix Session, host Bill Sutton, Director of Modern Workspace at XenTegra, is joined by Solutions Architects Stuart Donaldson and Randy Price for a deep dive into one of the most significant updates in modern Citrix authentication.This episode unpacks Microsoft Entra ID Single Sign-On inside Citrix sessions and what it means for end users, admins, and the future of passwordless access. The team breaks down why FAS has become a layer of technical debt, how Entra ID SSO removes friction for users, and what prerequisites and limitations customers need to know before adopting it.Listeners will learn: • How Entra ID SSO eliminates duplicate authentication inside Citrix sessions • Why Primary Refresh Token support is a major win for M365 user experience • What environments are supported and where FAS is still required • Operational considerations like Windows 11 requirements, VDA versions, and the impact on Auto Client Reconnect • Known issues, performance implications, and what to expect in future iterationsIf you support Citrix DAS, modern authentication, or hybrid identity environments, this episode gives you a practical, expert-level overview of what Entra ID SSO unlocks and why it matters.Technical Details can be found at: https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-daas/install-configure/session-authentication/entra-sso.html

What does it take to be ready to deploy M365 Copilot in your organization? Richard talks to Nikki Chapple about her latest incarnation of the M365 Copilot Readiness Checklist, working step-by-step to bring M365 Copilot into the organization without causing data leak issues. Nikki discusses utilizing existing tools to accurately identify sensitive data, archiving outdated information, and monitoring data usage by both users and agents - allowing you to detect issues before they escalate. The conversation also delves into the process of identifying issues, discussing policy changes, and how to communicate those changes so that people can take advantage of the power of these new tools without feeling threatened. It's a journey!LinksMicrosoft PurviewSharePoint Advanced ManagementDefender for Cloud AppsRestricted SharePoint SearchMicrosoft 365 ArchiveSharePoint Restricted Content DiscoveryData Security Posture Management for AINikki's Readiness ChecklistM365 Copilot Oversharing BlueprintMicrosoft Purview Secure by Default BlueprintPrevent Data Leaks to Shadow AI BlueprintRecorded November 7, 2025

ShadyPanda plays the long game. India mandates tracking software on mobile devices. Korea weighs punitive damages after a massive breach. Qualcomm patches a critical boot flaw impacting millions. OpenAI patches a Codex CLI vulnerability. Google patches Android zero-days. Cybersecurity issues prompt an FDA permanent recall for an at-home ventilator system. Switzerland questions the security of hyperscale clouds and SaaS services. One of the world's largest cyber insurers pulls back from the market. On our Threat Vector segment, ⁠David Moulton⁠ sits down with ⁠Stav Setty to unpack the Jingle Thief campaign.  In Russia, Porsches take a holiday.  Remember to leave us a 5-star rating and review in your favorite podcast app. Miss an episode? Sign-up for our daily intelligence roundup, Daily Briefing, and you'll never miss a beat. And be sure to follow CyberWire Daily on LinkedIn. Threat Vector segment In today's Threat Vector segment, host ⁠David Moulton⁠, Senior Director of Thought Leadership for Unit 42, sits down with ⁠Stav Setty⁠, Principal Researcher at Palo Alto Networks, to unpack Jingle Thief a cloud-only, identity-driven campaign that turned Microsoft 365 into a gift card printing press. Stav explains how the Morocco-based group known as Atlas Lion lived off the land inside M365 for months at a time, using tailored phishing and smishing pages, URL tricks, and internal phishing to compromise one user and quietly pivot to dozens more. To listen to the full conversation on Threat Vector, listen here. You can catch new episodes of Threat Vector every Thursday on your favorite podcast app.  Selected Reading Browser extensions pushed malware to 4.3M Chrome, Edge users (The Register) India plans to verify and record every smartphone in circulation (TechCrunch) Apple to Resist India's Order to Preload Government App on iPhones (MacRumors) President orders probe into Coupang breach (The Korea Herald) Qualcomm Alerts Users to Critical Flaws That Compromise the Secure Boot Process (GB Hackers) Vulnerability in OpenAI Coding Agent Could Facilitate Attacks on Developers (SecurityWeek) Google Releases Patches for Android Zero-Day Flaws Exploited in the Wild (Infosecurity Magazine) 'Cyber Issue' Leads to FDA Recall of Baxter Respiratory Gear (GovInfoSecurity) Swiss government bans SaaS and cloud for sensitive info (The Register) Publication: Resolution on outsourcing data processing to the cloud (Privatim) Insurer Beazley Steps Back From Cyber Market as Attacks Surge (PYMNTS.com) Hundreds of Porsche Owners in Russia Unable to Start Cars After System Failure (The Moscow Times) Share your feedback. What do you think about CyberWire Daily? Please take a few minutes to share your thoughts with us by completing our brief listener survey. Thank you for helping us continue to improve our show.  Want to hear your company in the show? N2K CyberWire helps you reach the industry's most influential leaders and operators, while building visibility, authority, and connectivity across the cybersecurity community. Learn more at sponsor.thecyberwire.com. The CyberWire is a production of N2K Networks, your source for strategic workforce intelligence. © N2K Networks, Inc. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get featured on the show by leaving us a Voice Mail: https://bit.ly/MIPVM Practical insights on adopting Microsoft 365 Copilot and AI tools for real business impact. Learn how to identify quick wins, improve productivity, and master prompt engineering for better results.

In this special episode of Threat Vector, host David Moulton, Senior Director of Thought Leadership for Unit 42, sits down with Stav Setty, Principal Researcher at Palo Alto Networks, to unpack Jingle Thief a cloud-only, identity-driven campaign that turned Microsoft 365 into a gift card printing press. Stav explains how the Morocco based group known as Atlas Lion lived off the land inside M365 for months at a time, using tailored phishing and smishing pages, URL tricks, and internal phishing to compromise one user and quietly pivot to dozens more. Together, David and Stav walk through how the attackers abused legitimate identity features like device registration, MFA resets, inbox forwarding rules, and ServiceNow style access requests to blend into normal business workflows and monetize “digital cash” in the form of gift cards. They dig into why MFA alone is not safety, why identity is now the real perimeter, and how behavioral analytics, UEBA, and ITDR can piece together small signals into a clear story of compromise. You'll come away with practical steps to harden identity posture, spot early warning signs in cloud environments, and protect high value systems where trust can be turned directly into profit. To go deeper on this campaign and the Atlas Lion threat actor, read the Unit 42 article Jingle Thief Inside a Cloud-Based Gift Card Fraud Campaign at https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/cloud-based-gift-card-fraud-campaign/ Join the conversation on our social media channels: Website:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Threat Research:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/LifeatPaloAltoNetworks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/unit42/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@paloaltonetworks⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/PaloAltoNtwks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ About Threat Vector Threat Vector by Palo Alto Networks is your premier podcast for security thought leadership. Join us as we explore pressing cybersecurity threats, robust protection strategies, and the latest industry trends. The podcast features in-depth discussions with industry leaders, Palo Alto Networks experts, and customers, providing crucial insights for security decision-makers. Whether you're looking to stay ahead of the curve with innovative solutions or understand the evolving cybersecurity landscape, Threat Vector equips you with the knowledge needed to safeguard your organization. Palo Alto Networks Palo Alto Networks enables your team to prevent successful cyberattacks with an automated approach that delivers consistent security across the cloud, network, and mobile.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠http://paloaltonetworks.com.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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