Podcasts about Mixtec

Mis entrevistados en este episodio son Anny Gabriela Ventura Puac y Jairo Chamalé Lemus. Anny es ajquij(guía espiritual), politóloga e investigadora, actual curadora en jefe de Espacio/C. Nacida en Chuwila, Chichicastenango, Quiché, Guatemala. Es mujer Maya Kiche con identidad diversa, sanadora y contadora del tiempo. Tiene estudios en Ciencias Políticas y Sociales, Relaciones Internacionales y una especialidad en ODS para Naciones Indígenas. Es confundadora de Espacio C, en dónde se ha desempeñado como gestora cultural desde 2013 y curadora en Jefe desde 2023.En Guatemala su trabajo está presente en diversos espacios sociales, políticos y culturales, como consultora independiente para organizaciones no gubernamentales, trabajando con niñas, mujeres y adolescentes mayas y no mayas a nivel nacional, en temas concretos como empoderamiento político, salud (diabetes / VIH) y sanación desde la Cosmovisión Maya.Jairo es persona disidente, del territorio Poqomam de Mixco, viajero e investigador se la religiosidad popular, las expresiones culturales y la espiritualidad de su contexto cercano. Es guía de turismo y estudiante de antropología.Notas del EpisodioAnny y Jairo y el Cristo NegroEl camino de peregrinacion entre Mixco y OaxacaQuirio Catano y las origines del cristo negroLas diversas formas de sacrificar y bailarLas colonizaciones de EquipulasEl base de cristo negro en el mundo maya/mexicaEl crisis climatico y la falta de ofrendasLas consecuencias de la perdida de hospitalidadLa memoria vivida del intercambio intercultural antiguaTarea Abisaí Navarro María Jacinta Xón / Proyecto Tux Cocina Gourmet de OrigenHoja de Pacaya - InstagramLos Cofrades Chichicastenango - Instagramespacio/C arte+memoria - InstagramTranscripcion en espanol (English Below)S6 - Anny Puac & Jairo - Peregrinacion a EsquipulasChris: [00:00:00] Bienvenida y bienvenido al podcast El Fin del Turismo Annie y Jairo. Gracias a ambos por acompañarme hoy. Me encantaría que pudieran contarles a nuestros oyentes desde dónde llaman y cómo aparece el mundo ahí para cada uno de ustedes.Anny: Muchas gracias, Chris y buenos días a quienes nos escuchen o buenas tardes o buenas noches, dependiendo su zona horaria.Mi nombre es Anny y yo le saludo desde el territorio maya K'iche' de Chuwila, K'iche' Guatemala específicamente.Jairo: Buenos días a ambos, para mi un gusto estar por acá. Sawe ta inteer winaq (Buenos días a todas y todos) mucho gusto desde el territorio pues Poqomam de Mixco y también desde las cercanías a la ciudad de Guatemala, pues gracias por esta [00:01:00] oportunidad para compartir conocimiento.Chris: Y gracias a ustedes dos. Yo estoy aquí en Oaxaca y el mundo parece obviamente un poco raro. Bueno, quizás no es obvio, pero parece más raro día por día. Estamos aquí hoy para hablar de Esquipulas en Guatemala. Y Esquipulas es el lugar de varias iglesias que han abergado al cristo negro de la ciudad, que es famosa por sus supuestos milagros durante los últimos cuatro siglos.De manera similar, la peregrinación al santuario es la más grande de América Central y la segunda más grande de las Américas, con lo que leí, 5 millones de personas que lo visitan cada año. Ahora, para empezar, ¿Estarían dispuestos a explicar que impulsó a cada uno [00:02:00] de sus intereses o relaciones con este lugar y la práctica de la peregrinación?Anny: Sí, por supuesto Chris. Pues, yo desde como mi relación, digamos personal o individual como familia, yo tengo, digamos, como clara la idea de cuando inician estas peregrinaciones, de pronto, cuando yo ya tenía unos siete u ocho años de edad, así, para decirte que yo tengo claridad, pero cuando yo retrocedo a los archivos de la familia, pues veo que el tema de peregrinar a Esquipulas, pues comienza con mis abuelas.Jairo: Entonces yo te podría decir que dentro de mi familia, la peregrinación a Esquipulas , así quizá llevará mínimamente unos 80 años presente en la familia, sobre todo del lado de [00:03:00] mi abuela materna. Que ella es de un territorio K'iche' de Quetzaltenango, en donde pues empezaban el viaje, en conjunto, allá fuera un viaje de barrio organizado por el barrio, o era un viaje familiar, entonces se iban uno o dos buses en aquel tiempo cuando no había tanto transporte, verdad? Era un lujo también irse por alguna ruta en donde hubiera paso para bus. Y pues, lo que no se pudiera transitar ya en bus, pues se hacía caminando, se hacían burros, pero, más o menos por ahí viene un poquito la historia de de cómo inician estas rutas de peregrinaje en mi familia, digamos. Con el caso de nosotros, yo no tengo conciencia de pequeño de haber, pues, llegado a Esquipulas. Bueno, hay un dato bien interesante, cuando yo cumplo 40 días de haber nacido, mi familia decide llevarme a [00:04:00] Esquipulas, eso pues está en el archivo fotográfico de la familia como agradecimiento, porque al final nací con... nací bien.Jairo: Y entonces la familia decide peregrinar es el dato más cercano que tengo de la personal de las idas a Esquipulas. Claro, esto siempre lo he tenido muy familiarizado dentro de mi contexto cercano, puesto que la gente pues de mi municipio suele ir justo organizada en excursiones de las diferentes organizaciones religiosas que hay en mi municipio.Estas, pues designan fechas y son buses llenos de aproximadamente 50 personas. Cada bus suelen llegar hasta tres, de acá de Mixco, pues que se van para para Esquipulas. Y ese es algo bien interesante porque es pues, parte de la modernidad, digámoslo ir en bus, pero hay muchas anécdotas de las personas de acá del pueblo que [00:05:00] cuentan cómo, pues iban de una forma más rústica, verdad? Que podía ser, pues en peregrinaje caminando, que no era la única peregrinación, de hecho la del cristo negro de Esquipulas. Hoy puntualmente, vamos a hablar de ella.Pero pues están también las peregrinaciones Antigua Guatemala que está aquí cerquita, aquí detrás de nosotros hay un cerro que es el cerro Alux. Este cerro se cruzaba, pues caminando, todavía lo hace la gente caminando porque detrás del cerro está, pues la bajada para llegar a la Antigua Guatemala.Chris: Gracias. Gracias a ustedes. Pues así, por conocer un poco más de sus historias, como de peregrinación, me gustaría saber un poco más si se podrían ofrecer algo de la larga historia de Esquipulas, del cristo negro y pues, ¿Cómo se originó la la peregrinación? ¿De donde viene esa historia?.Jairo: Bueno, como lo mencioné antes, diciendo algunas [00:06:00] palabras en el idioma poqomam. Es el idioma que se hablaba, pues en nuestro pueblo. Lo voy a decir nuevamente más despacio para, pues, describirles que es lo que dije, técnicamente es:Sawe' ta inteer winaq, kiroo wilkee' chipam ma' q 'oriik taqee, reh ma' ojeer winaq reh qatinimiit Mixko' buenos días a todos. Qué gusto pues poder compartir estas palabras y también un poco de la historia de la gente antigua de nuestro pueblo. Porque pues, la verdad es que el peregrinaje a Esquipulas está muy relacionado e intrínseco con la gente de Mixco y justamente también con el territorio oaxaqueño. Mi nombre, pues es Jairo, Jairo Andrés Chamale Lemus. Yo pues pertenezco a este territorio, a la gente maya poqomam. De acá es la mitad de mi familia de mis antepasados. Y , pues me dedico al turismo. Yo soy guía [00:07:00] de turistas de hace aproximadamente ocho años ya desde que me gradué muy joven. Y, pues me he dedicado justo a peregrinar para que las personas conozcan también el contexto histórico de Guatemala y de las diferentes expresiones culturales, religiosas y también de resistencia de la gente en el territorio de lo que ahora conocemos como Guatemala.Pues también, soy estudiante de la carrera de antropología, de la licenciatura específicamente en antropología, y pues me he dedicado también a estudiar el caso del idioma maya poqomam en Mixco, que es una comunidad muy cercana a la ciudad de Guatemala, que hemos tenido pues un impacto, demográfico y social, pues bastante fuerte, pues debido al crecimiento del área metropolitana de la ciudad de Guatemala. Es algo a lo que me he dedicado a estudiar durante los últimos años. Y también, pues, a [00:08:00] documentarlo, porque tenemos muchas prácticas culturales y espirituales en nuestro pueblo, que han ido desapareciendo conforme este avance demográfico de la ciudad, muchísimas gracias. Rontyoox aq'oo taAnny: Bueno Chris. En realidad hay un registro, digamos histórico, donde dice que el primer peregrinaje que se inicia a Esquipulas, fue en Marzo 1595, cuando la imagen sale del taller de este señor escultor Quirio Cataño, que sale hacia Esquipulas, hacia Chiquimula. Esto está al oriente de Guatemala. Nosotros lo conocemos como la zona caliente de de Guatemala. Pero es la zona, digamos, como caliente árida. Es un territorio en donde hay comunidad Xinca, Popti', si no estoy mal Chortí también. Y pues, la producción que se [00:09:00] tiene por las tierras de por allá, estamos hablando de frutas de algunas plantas, de algunos tubérculos más o menos, pero más que todos se dedican a la fruta, verdad.Esta primera peregrinación la documenta y la registra el cronista, que se llama Miguel Álvarez. Y él dice que, cuando cuando salióó del taller y se dirigió hacia Esquipulas la imagen iba haciendo diferentes milagros en todo el recorrido hasta llegar a la basílica. Entonces habían personas que le pedían justamente que, que por favor que la imagen pasara por lo menos una noche dentro de la casa de las personas para, bendecirlo. Y Y más o menos se calcula cada año, digamos en la actualidad, ahora en Guatemala y en alrededor de 300 mil personas de todo el mundo, más que todo entre México, Centroamérica, países del sur, por ejemplo de Perú [00:10:00] de Ecuador de Ecuador, Bolivia, si no estoy mal, es como mucha la cantidad de gente que llega, más o menos entre noviembre, que ahorita es como una fecha de noviembre y diciembre y todo enero, digamos, esas son como los tres meses de muchísima más afluencia de personas que llegan llegan a la basílica, verdad? Entonces se le puede llamar romerías, se le puede llamar una peregrinacion que peregrinación, usualmente, pues ahí si que las personas que visitan puede ser que hagan así como un día de visita nada más o puede ser que pueda prolongarse una visita hasta por 10, 15 días, verdad?De la ciudad de Guatemala, hasta Esquipulas hay una distancia más o menos como entre unos 220 a 250 kilómetros y se recorre, si vas como en romería, pasando por lugares como muy puntuales de toda la peregrinación, en promedio [00:11:00] cada día tú vas haciendo un tramo de 40 kilómetros, al día, digamos si tu intención es ir en peregrinaje así. Entonces eso es más o menos como más datos históricos y el relato, verdad?Chris: Y estoy un poco curioso, dentro de las estancias, al llegar a Esquipulas, si yo fuera peregrinando, por ejemplo, ¿ Qué haría? ¿Se van parando para hacer sus rezos? Me gustaría saber por alguien que nunca ha hecho una peregrinación, como aparecía esos días antes de venir.Anny: Bueno, yo te voy a contar un poquito el relato de de mi familia porque mi abuela materna, ella sí era una señora, pues muy católica, no? Entonces, pues ella, su peregrinaje, digamos para ella, era su sacrificio, verdad? En el año, decir bueno, por agradecimiento [00:12:00] a mi salud, a los milagros que me concedió, porque era como muy devota. Era el hecho de salir en ruta de peregrinaje. ¿Qué implicaba esto? Inclusive, preparar comida para no digamos como perder el tiempo, tú pensando en qué comer durante el camino, porque la idea para ellos y para ellas era, pues, ir en como en recogimiento, en rezo constante, en oración, digamos en petición, ir como parando cada cierto tiempo, verdad? Cada 40 kilómetros, porque que ya dentro de la comunidad, católica-cristiana, hay puntos que están como marcados dentro de la ruta en donde tú puedes ir parando con cada familia, porque puede ser que tengan una réplica de la imagen del cristo negro, porque de hecho, cuando fue la primera peregrinación, puede ser que esta familia haya sido una de las [00:13:00] familias que recibió por primera vez el cristo negro.Entonces se convierte como en ese punto de de parada, verdad? Entonces, cuando hacen ese punto de parada, pues ya bajan. Bajan a hacer oración, bajan a platicar y a convivir con las personas de pronto, a compartir un alimento. Ya sentir, pues, así que también como su fé, su devoción, pero al mismo tiempo su convivencia, su alegría en este, en este tramo de compartir no?.Entonces eso digamos, es lo que usualmente, pues se ve. Yo también he visto otras personas que, por ejemplo, ya cuando quedan unos, son los últimos 20 kilómetros de recorrido por ejemplo, descienden de sus vehículos y caminan de rodillas esos 20 kilómetros hasta llegar a la basílica. Entonces, pues, los ves, ya puede ser que sea solo el papá con con el hijo, o el papá y la mamá, o pues la diversidad de personas que puedan llegar, que van y que pues hacen su penitencia, y [00:14:00] entregan digamos, pues su sacrificio de esta forma. Así como hay personas que puede ser que, que durante toda su ruta de peregrinaje, hay un ejemplo de unos, de unas personas cercanas a nosotros que tienen un conjunto de marimba, de música, y pues lo que hacen es que van con un vehículo y van ejecutando música todo el trayecto hasta llegar a Esquipulas, y ya cuando llegan a la basílica, bajan con sus instrumentos y se dedican a cantar ya sea una canción, un tiempo, verdad?Ahí, entonces, pues yo creo que depende, varía mucho de lo que te puedas tú dedicar o el agradecimiento que tú quieras pues dar, o a lo que, pues, lo que tu corazón salga, no? En mi caso como muy puntual, pues nosotros hacemos el recorrido completo los 220 kilómetros en vehículo hasta llegar a Esquipulas. Y luego, pues ahí ya, o sea, nos establecemos [00:15:00] y como nuestras dinámicas son un tanto como diferentes porque yo no soy católica. Yo soy de la cosmovisión maya, y pues ahí he crecido buena parte de mi vida. Mi concepción como de ver esta ruta de peregrinaje es diferente, porque si bien es cierto el que el cristo negro, pues es una figura de un cristo crucificado cristiano, Jesús, nosotros aprendimos a ver cómo la historia del pueblo Poptí y Chorti y Chortí, en cuanto a que esta ruta de peregrinaje es bien interesante, porque durante toda tu ruta más, más o menos, me atrevería a decir que tal vez un 70 de la ruta, tú vas encontrando montañas de obsidiana, entonces es una ruta que en sí es una ruta de sanación y para nosotros, digamos dentro de la cosmovisión maya está muy relacionada con el Nahual Tijax, que es la obsidiana y para [00:16:00] quizá buena parte de Oaxaca o de su Istmo o de la cultura Náhuatl, por ejemplo, está relacionado con Tezcatlipoca que era justamente esta veneración de esta mujer que decían que era brillante y color de cobrizo y de nigriso verdad? Y por tanto, Y pues tú sabes que ambas piedras o estos relatos que nos cuentan, pues es justamente sanación y de ahí que nosotros creemos que por eso el cristo negro es tan milagroso cuando se trata de temas de salud.Jairo: Desde nuestro lado, por así decirlo, forma parte ya de un peregrinaje que no solamente se hace el 15 de enero. Claro, el 15 de enero es el día establecido para hacer el peregrinaje de cristo negro de Esquipulas. Pero pues, muchos de los grupos que les comentaba que son bastante diversos acá en Mixco, grupos religiosos principalmente católicos, o pues sincretizados de [00:17:00] alguna forma, establecen también estas visitas como parte de su organización dentro del grupo de personas que inciden.Y entonces si, justamente dentro del bus, también se suele, pues, ir rezando el rosario, que es esta práctica de ir rezando las novenas con un orden establecido con cantos y la gente, pues suele ir desde que salen de ciudad de Guatemala o desde que salen de acá desde Mixco, que hay que cruzar la ciudad y luego la ruta hacia el oriente de Guatemala, la gente va haciendo estas oraciones cada cierto tiempo, pero depende mucho del grupo y de qué tan católico sea de alguna forma, porque hay grupos que solamente lo hacen como una excursión claro. El fin principal es de la visita, pues a la basílica del cristo negro y la veneración de cristo negro como tal.Y, pues solamente llegan en en el bus hasta la basílica y algo que caracteriza mucho a la cultura de [00:18:00] Mixco, es el, la quema de pólvora. A nosotros nos fascina la pólvora y cuando llegamos a Esquipulas justamente esa es la premisa, no? Llegar a quemar bombas de sonido, de sonido estridente en aviso que la gente de Mixco ya llegó.Y también fuegos pirotécnicos de colores. Es bien curioso porque depende mucho del grupo y a lo que el grupo, pues aunque sea católico o sincretizado con lo maya, a lo que este grupo religiosamente se dedique, encaminado a eso va la actividad que se va a realizar allá.Tengo conocimiento de un grupo que, de hecho, ya se documentó a gracias al CECEG, al Centro de Estudios Culturales de la Universidad de San Carlos, de Guatemala, es el grupo El Baile de Moros de los Seis Toritos, que es básicamente un grupo de danza tradicional que nace en la aldea Lo De Bran que está acá en Mixco siempre dentro [00:19:00] del área metropolitana y ellos, pues se dedican a bailar El Torito. El Torito es básicamente la representación de una danza que se hace en alusión a dueños de una finca y el trato hacia los animales. Entonces los animales tienen una especie de de revelación contra este dueño de la finca, una historia bien, sutilmente contada desde lo maya también. Y entonces van a hacer esta representación de la danza a Esquipulas. Esto lo hacen justamente para la fiesta del cristo negro. Bailan todo el día, durante tres días seguidos frente al atrio de la iglesia de Esquipulas, mientras millones de personas visitan la basílica de cristo negro y en ese momento ellos están bailando ahí.Chris: Qué fascinante. Me encanta ese sentido, esa onda que, que hay tanta diversidad, en la forma, los caminos, las celebraciones que se niegue un poco [00:20:00] ese sentido occidental que es como de siempre asumir o buscar una sola respuesta, una sola historia, una sola manera, de actuar, de entender.Y así fue sorprendiente para mí por leer, por investigar las historias de Esquipulas y de las peregrinaciones porque encontré muchas historias diversas. Entonces voy a leer un poquito de lo que encontré y me gustaría escuchar de ustedes, si se podrían comentar un poco de si hay sentidos de "eso es como puro chisme o es un rumor" o si hay capas y capas dentro de las historias de Esquipulas y las peregrinaciones.Entonces, pues la primera va que "en la ciudad sagrada de Copán se celebraban grandes fiestas en honor [00:21:00] a dios maya Ek-Kampulá que significa: 'el que empuja las nubes', pues se le atribuía el poder de alejar las lluvias y permitir los días del sol necesarios para preparar la siembra.Ek-Kampulá que era de color negro, estaba rodeado con una antorcha en la mano izquierda. Su figura se puede apreciar en las graduadas de uno de los templos de Copán." Ahora, el segundo."Algunos relatos dicen que la figura del cristo negro fue ordenada por los conquistadores españoles en Guatemala en ese momento para facilitar la conversión de los pueblos locales al cristianismo."Ahora, el próximo. "Las leyendas piadosas afirman que la imagen se oscureció debido a los misioneros españoles que deseaban convertir a los [00:22:00] nativos que adoraban a la deidad nebulosa pagana Ek-Kampulá en el área que también era representada como una figura oscura." Entonces, supongo que mi pregunta es como, ¿Cuántas de estas historias han escuchado Y ¿Cuáles historias son las meras meras verdaderas según ustedes? O si hay capas y capas y capas de historias en qué todas merecen su lugar.Jairo: Yo creería que, Copán tiene un papel bien importante dentro de lo que estamos hablando. Ahora es un sitio arqueológico del área residencial o el castillo, por así decirlo, y los templos de la gente maya de ese tiempo, recordemos que es el clásico. Y pues esta ciudad fue colonizada por otra ciudad que se llama Quiriguá, que está siempre en las riberas del Río Motagua, un río muy [00:23:00] importante que comunica toda la parte de las montañas de Guatemala con el Caribe. Y en Copán si hay muchas expresiones espirituales. Seguro, Anny nos va a ampliar un poco más de esto. Pero lo que yo he visto son muchas expresiones, rituales espirituales y también, un centro de peregrinaje como tal ya fungía Copán. O sea, ya era una capital política, religiosa y cultural muy importante que está muy cerca de Esquipulas. Es increíblemente como un sitio maya tan importante del clásico está tan cerca a una ciudad, que es tan importante para todo el área mesoamericana. Es decir, desde México hasta Costa Rica, conocen al cristo negro de Esquipulas. Y pues también algo que a mi me llama la atención relacionado a lo que acabas de decir es como, Esquipulas, pues si es un referente para la gente pues católica, la gente católica que no es maya va [00:24:00] también a Esquipulas como una forma de peregrinaje, pero, a mi me llama mucho la atención, la práctica también de la espiritualidad maya y otras espiritualidades que se llevan a cabo en Esquipulas, no?quizás no es tan directamente relacionado con la figura que acabas de mencionar, que yo he escuchado como Ek-Chuah, sino que es esta figura de la piedra de los compadres, que es una leyenda, no? Una leyenda de adulterio, por así decirlo, en el cual hay dos piedras que están pegadas en alusión a dos amigos que llegan al peregrinaje de cristo negro de Esquipulas y en un acto sexual, estos compadres se quedan pegados como castigo por haber cometido el adulterio. Esa es la leyenda. Y en esa piedra, pues se practica la espiritualidad maya, es decir a pocos ni siquiera un kilómetro de la de la basílica del cristo negro de Esquipulas, puedes ver esta piedra donde la gente coloca, [00:25:00] pues, sus candelas, su incienso y hay altares dedicados completamente a la espiritualidad maya dentro del mismo pueblo.Entonces esto va un poco aunado a lo que nos decía Anny no? Como la figura de cristo negro, también es muy representativa y es la reminiscencia de algo que se practicó muy fuertemente durante la época prehispánica.Yo no descartaría del todo, pues el valor de Ek-Chuah dentro de estas prácticas espirituales y que sí, definitivamente los españoles, trataron de tomar elementos de la de la espiritualidad maya que ya eran importantes para imponer la religión católica. Pero la gente maya, yo siempre lo digo, fue muy estratega y lo es hasta la fecha para continuar resistiendo, practicando, pues la espiritualidad tamizado con elementos católicos y con este significado profundo.Anny: Sí, yo también voy a coincidir un poquito en el [00:26:00] tema de no descartaría la relación que se tiene con Ek-Chuah, porque está asociado con la deidad Chortí. El otro punto que tú hablabas del tema, un tanto político, sí hay algunos historiadores, políticos que justamente, enuncian este uso de figuras que está asociada con el trabajo y sobretodo, digamos a la carga y explotación laboral de los campesinos, y cómo también estas zonas fueron como fuertemente impactadas durante el tiempo de la colonia. Entonces eso, yo tampoco lo, lo descartaría y tampoco diría que es un mito. Por ejemplo, yo, sé que la antigua población de Esquipulas, fue una de las ciudades en este punto incendiadas por los españoles durante la invasión aquí a Guatemala el 1525 verdad?[00:27:00] En el centro de la plaza de Esquipulas, según cómo lo relatan, decía que habían, cuatro árboles de de pochotl que es la ceiba, que la ceiba pues ahí si que para nosotros es un árbol sagrado, verdad? Porque bajo sus sombras, siempre se han realizado ceremonias vinculadas con prácticas agrícolas, que duraban desde el solsticio de invierno hasta el equinoccio de primavera.Entonces se iniciaban más o menos también en esta zona por el 21 de diciembre, pero tenían ritualidades más unciosas, por ejemplo, como el 15 de enero. Y de ahí que parte que una de las fechas propicias para visitar Esquipulas sea 15 de enero. Entonces, las otras fechas de celebración que iban entre el equinoccio y el solsticio.Del 15 de enero al 25 de febrero, más o menos 40 días. Porque en 40 días estábamos viendo que se operaba el paso del sol por el cenit en la otra banda del [00:28:00] trópico, en un punto en donde estaba hasta cierto punto equidistante del círculo máximo de la tierra, donde según la posición del sol, se tomaba la medida del tiempo en que se produciría el fenómeno de la tierra que ya fuera el fenómeno del niño o de la niña, como se le nombra, verdad?Exactamente, se hacía esto dentro de los días comprendidos del 20 al 31 de enero, que es cuando se operan como los fenómenos en los hemisferios, y de ahí es como de donde viene esta creencia de las cabañuelas, de cuando muy va iniciando el año más o menos por ahí, entonces hay como una relación también ciclo-agrícola y por eso es que a mí no se me hace como un mito el hecho que está asociado con Ek-Chuah porque Ek-Chuah de hecho está asociado con en este, no me gusta llamarlo Dios, pero con la energía del trabajo, verdad? Porque me parece que esa es como la expresión correcta. En cuanto a lo del señor de Esquipulas, la [00:29:00] relación de las ceremonias con la natividad de cristo, digamos, así como el establecimiento de la festividad del señor de Esquipulas el 15 de enero, pues si siguen teniendo continuidad con las formas religiosas prehispánicas en el área maya guatemalteca, los antiguos habitantes de Esquipulas, si hay un relato, de Castañeda que lo mencionan en lo en el 55 que se dice que , "adoraban a un Dios que era el protector de las siembras de la cosecha y del trabajo."Esto lo dice, este historiador "que seguramente él dice no pertenecía a las deidades mesoamericanas, especialmente al panteón mexica, universado en momentos previos a la llegada de los españoles. La representación antropomorfa de las deidades no era desconocida en Mesoamérica, por el contrario, era abundante y generalizada desde Sinaloa hasta Honduras. [00:30:00] Además, 'del Dios principal,' el comenta fray Diego Durán, 'él hace como una alusión, con Tezcatlipoca, que él dice era una piedra muy relumbrante y negra como azabache obsidiano. Piedra de la que ellos hacen navajas y cuchillos para cortar.' Además, ciudades era de palo entallada en una figura de un hombre todo negro de las sienes para abajo con la frente, narices y boca blanca, de color de indio bestia" dice él, "de algunos atavíos galanos a su indiano modo a lo primero que tenía era unos ojeras de oro y otras de plata. En el labio bajo tenía un bezote de laverde cristalino en el que está metida una pluma verde y otras veces es azul, que después de afuera parece esmeralda o rubí. Era este bezote como un geme de largo encima de coleta de caballos que tenían la cabeza. Entonces, lo que se puede apreciar en esta descripción [00:31:00] de Tezcatlipoca corresponde casi literalmente a lo que se pudo percibir como la primera figura del cristo negro, especialmente en la representación de las imágenes talladas en madera que se veneraban en las ciudades periféricas del imperio mexica. La diferencia en el atuendo de ambas deidades radican las connotaciones religiosas de cada una de las culturas, materias, simbologías, espirituales y atributos, pero en esencial es parecido e indescutible indiscutible.Recordemos que la celebración principal, digamos de la obsidiana de Tezcatlipoca y de lo que tú mencionabas relacionado con el tema de las lluvias, pues era justamente esto, la petición para que lloviera, sobre todo por ser tierras en este punto, muy áridas, muy secas . Y bueno, yo me quedo por aquí.Chris: Bueno, muchas gracias Anny y Jairo, para explicar un poco de eso. Entonces, [00:32:00] así, me gustaría preguntar cómo dar los cambios en los objetos de los mayas a los cristianos y la naturaleza de la peregrinación, hacia el turismo. Es una pregunta rara, pero, ¿Ustedes creen que los viejos alimentos, o energías, o antepasados todavía se alimentan?Es decir, para vivir en un lugar ya una década que tiene una sequía, que también saqueo, que va empeorando y empeorando, poco a poco me voy pensando si hay una falta de rezos de conocimiento, de recuerdo, de memoria, de ofrendas. Anny: Bueno, yo es en realidad esta sequía saqueo, esta crisis climática y toda la crisis alrededor de la tierra, a mí, en lo [00:33:00] personal y tanto en lo comunitario, a mí me parece que es una crisis a nivel comunitaria, nacional, mundial en donde todos los territorios, se han visto afectados. Por ejemplo, así como aquí en Guatemala, que tenemos zonas como muy áridas, muy secas, que por su propia condición geográfica en donde han estado, sin duda se ha intensificado en estos últimos años, derivado del saqueo del recurso natural, sobre todo en estas zonas del oriente de Guatemala que son montañas que están, pues ahí si que dedicadas a la explotación de material para la construcción. Hablemos de piedra, hablemos de arena, hablemos de cal, por ejemplo, y de otros elementos que son para la explotación minera. Así como hay otros aquí en Guatemala, donde pues la zona es bastante húmeda, pero sus montañas son [00:34:00] propicias para el oro, para la plata, para el cobre, para el zinc y para otros elementos. Entonces, yo si siento que aparte de que falte de repente un toj, un pagamento, o un Xukulem, como nosotros decimos, dar la gratitud a la tierra que sin duda, pues es evidente cuando, y eso es evidencia no solo en la explotación de la tierra, sino que es evidencia en el sentir de las personas, porque usualmente, se piensa que un peregrinaje únicamente es ir a ver una figura, verdad? O una persona, una deidad, un cristo, ir a esa energía y sentir la energía para yo recargarme, sin considerar que yo al momento que también me voy a recargar de esa energía, estoy siendo un tanto extractivista muchas veces con mi práctica. Pero mi práctica también va más allá de enajenarme de qué está pasando, porque si bien es cierto, tengo ahí al cristo negro frente a mí y soy muy devota, pero entender que el cristo negro también puede estar [00:35:00] presente en las montañas, en los ríos, en los valles, en los lagos, en las cuencas y en todo eso que a mí me da de comer, en todo eso que a mí me permite vivir. Entonces, yo creo que más allá de que falta un rezo, yo sí creo que falta mucha conciencia, mucho trabajo espiritual de hacerle ver a las personas, a los peregrinos, a las peregrinas que mi ruta de peregrinaje, o sea, por donde yo paso, existe porque hay un territorio, un territorio que es ajeno a mi territorio, pero que aun así yo paso porque voy a ver algo en específico, pero que eso también tiene un impacto y que eso también tiene una responsabilidad. Preocuparme por todo lo común que pasa alrededor de de mi territorio, de mi país, del mundo, por ejemplo. Entonces, Mas allá de yo decirte si mira, Chris, falta que la gente reze, falta que la gente ofrende para que ya no haya sequía, que si bien es cierto, tiene una parte súper importante, es muy espiritual y que nosotros que [00:36:00] hemos visto que es verdad. O sea, no es un mito, no es una mentira, sino que es verdad, pero tiene que ir de la mano la ritualidad con mi práctica, tiene que ir de la mano mi discurso con lo que yo estoy haciendo y con los enunciados y los postulados que yo tengo en mi compromiso con la tierra, verdad? Osea, para mí ese es como, como el punto focal, verdad?Jairo: Sí, Chris y Anny pues, también he de añadir que, mucho de la modernidad y la facilidad para poder llegar a establecer una ruta de peregrinaje, también, pues influye dentro de las prácticas sociales y culturales, y pues si de tal vez, una ofrenda o un rezo, también estoy de acuerdo con Anny en ese sentido, es la conciencia de las personas, no? Y no se trata en el caso de la gente, pues católica de ser anticuados y de decir, bueno, vamos a irnos callados todo el [00:37:00] camino, aunque eso es una práctica que hacía la gente antes, verdad? Lo nombro como la gente antigua de Mixco lo dice. Ya no se tiene el respeto, dice la gente, por llegar y ir en una ruta de oración y de pedir o de agradecer. Y pues, por tanto, llevar una actitud de respeto, sino que ya se toma como un viaje de excursión y puede llegar a pasar, cualquier cosa dentro de ese viaje a excepción que se visita a la basílica y se visita a cristo negro. Pero dentro de ese viaje también de muchas personas ya no toman en cuenta el significado, o siquiera la ruta en la que están atravesando, verdad?Creo que es parte de la influencia occidental, de alguna forma de los medios también, que no han difundido pues, esta historia, porque esto que estamos hablando no te lo cuentan en los medios de comunicación. Ni siquiera dentro de la iglesia católica. La iglesia católica te dice que está cristo negro de Esquipulas, que es un día reconocido [00:38:00] dentro de la espiritualidad, por así decirlo, guatemalteca, religiosidad popular, como querramos llamarlo, pero no te hacen este trasfondo histórico que hay dentro de él, verdad?Pues la iglesia católica se encarga de lo litúrgico si vamos a llamarlo de esa forma, se hace una misa, se participa dentro de las misas. Pues hay frailes franciscanos que están constantemente bendiciendo lo que se compra como souvenir dentro del lugar. Pero que más que una oración que haga falta, creo que si hace falta entender un poco más que es lo que estamos haciendo, pero pues es parte del cambio socio cultural influido, como digo por lo occidental de alguna forma, que está permeando pues esta memoria histórica en cuanto a la visita del cristo negro. No digo que deje de ser fuerte porque esto tiene muchísima fuerza todavía dentro del contexto mesoamericano.Chris: Claro, claro, [00:39:00] gracias a ustedes dos. Pues la mayoría de las pláticas en el podcast, son críticas, de lo que falta, lo que no hay, en en el mundo, en la cuestión del movimiento de viaje de devoción también, y agradecimiento.Bueno es obvio como las dinámicas transaccionales o capitalistas, etc afectan los movimientos de la gente. Cómo se proceden, como llegan, como piensen en sus movimientos, también queremos pensar en otros mundos, y parte de eso, tiene que ver con lo que algunos llaman la hospitalidad radical. Es decir, como lo más básico, según yo, la hospitalidad local, enraizado, para el extraño o extranjero o extranjera, etc. Entonces, tengo curiosidad por saber ¿Qué tipo de hospitalidad [00:40:00] radical ustedes han encontrado en Esquipulas o en la peregrinación, si es que han encontrado algo.Anny: Bueno, no te voy a hablar como mucho de esto, porque no tengo como una experiencia, porque no ha sido mi búsqueda también, como encontrar esto. Siento que es como un paso como más personal individual, quizá de de soledad, pero de de sentirte bien en el, así que solo, en el buen sentido.Te puedo decir que hay gente que tiene como muchas experiencias, verdad? De de encontrarse con las personas que abren las puertas de su casa para que estén, para que visiten, para que entren. Claro, ahorita pues mucha situación ha cambiado. Siento que la seguridad ya no es la misma. La situación que atraviesa Guatemala. La conflictividad que se ha ido acrecentando en estos últimos años con estas [00:41:00] miradas fascistas también, con la división entre iglesias, por ejemplo, entre protestantes fascistas, radicales, y protestantes neopentecostales. Y todavía medio que la iglesia evangélica presbiteriana, que es la que intenta mediar entre ambas y la iglesia católica. Todo esto, además que el oriente de Guatemala está catalogado como zonas de bastante menudeo de narco, corredores de narcotráfico también. Entonces, todas estas situaciones políticas y geopolíticas han ido modificando mucho el hecho de que tú busques tu propia protección y que la gente también, cuando no son épocas de de peregrinaje, no tiendan a abrir sus casas, sino que quizás las abren más como para cuando hay un poquito más de afluencia, pero ya es como muy poco ver este tipo de dinámicas. Lo otro es que mucha gente mayor, digamos de la zona ya ha [00:42:00] fallecido. Y pues ha quedado como gente joven, inclusive gente que no es ya de Esquipulas, sino que por tema laboral ha migrado ahí, entonces ya va perdiendo como un sentido de pertenencia, verdad? De como ese sentido de comunidad. Pero si algo yo puedo rescatar de hace como mucho tiempo y que nos queda de repente el bonito recuerdo y la historia que quizá Jairo quiere hablar ahí un poquito, es de cómo se fueron tejiendo ciertas rutas comerciales entre por ejemplo, Oaxaca, Mixco y la gente de que aprovechaba para ir a Esquipulas. Y también como pensar cómo fueron cambiando también los productos de consumo, porque ahora, pues, vemos una invasión de productos plásticos, verdad? Provenientes de China, de estas grandes pirámides de estafa que y de explotación de mano de obra en Malasia, que te viene producto chino también de por allá o de la india, por ejemplo. Vemos como la entrada de mucho de este, [00:43:00] de este producto, verdad?Entonces tampoco es que podamos estar hablando como de esta comunidad, o de encontrar como redes de comunidad en cuanto a la economía o en cuanto a la producción, porque es ahí si que tú sabes que el capitalismo es voraz y la globalización y todos estos factores que están pasando en este momento son muy crueles con las dinámicas y las formas de vida de acuerparnos, de querernos, de apapacharnos y que se intensifica cada vez más.Creo que ahí si que lo importante es, nombrarlo para que si alguien quizá no se había dado cuenta de cómo se han ido afectando las dinámicas. Pues ahora lo, se se pueda ver, verdad? Y que a veces también es un poco como egoísta de mi parte, porque ves ahí vamos al hecho de que, como yo solo lo voy una vez allá, pues no me importa al final, como si tejo o no tejo, verdad? Puede ser que sea el pensamiento de alguien, verdad? Bueno, yo [00:44:00] solo voy una vez, yo voy a lo que voy y no me importa pues si hay alguien ahí que me pueda acuerpar, recibir o lo que sea.Entonces también como estas dinámicas, estos pensamientos frívolos que también por la misma dinámica de la vida, de la economía y demás, se intensifican no? Entonces, pues yo pues yo, eso te podría decir.Jairo: Si, dentro de como el capitalismo, el sistema capitalista, ha influido también dentro de estas dinámicas. Yo puedo nombrar puntualmente durante las últimas veces que he ido a Esquipulas, justo desde acá de Mixco, como pues lo económico ha afectado, o sea, el nivel socioeconómico también determina lo que vas a llegar a hacer verdad? Porque muchas personas de que vienen de acá, ni siquiera pues ya piensan en hospedarse, sino que van en la noche, madrugada de un día, y se quedan en [00:45:00] el bus o solo van y peregrinan, rezan, dejan sus candelas, no se paga hotel y regresan, verdad? Eso ha sido en un par de ocasiones. Si bien, pues hay ahora opciones de hospedaje digámoslo de diferentes tipos, que se suelen reservar con anticipación. También está esta otra situación, que también deja un poco de lado a lo que se solía hacer de preparar comida, de llevar ya huevos duros, como le decimos nosotros, huevos cocidos con salsa de tomate, eso es muy de viajar en este contexto de Mixco, los tamales de viaje que les llamaban también que es básicamente pasta de maíz cocida con la tusa, que es la cáscara del maíz. Estos tamales, pues servían para eso, para poder mermar el hambre mientras se llegaba a Esquipulas y que ahora esto ha sido poco a poco reemplazado justo lo que nombraba Anny, por productos pre-elaborados, frituras, que no tienen ningún [00:46:00] sustento, ni siquiera enlazan, con la memoria de la cocina, sino que técnicamente es algo que se desecha. Y claro, la basura, también otro papel importante, porque tenemos poca educación o ninguna en cuanto al ambiente y las empresas que nos hacen responsables de sus paquetes, de sus sobrecitos, de sus botellas y todo esto, resulta en los caminos y, pues sí, es una ruta de peregrinaje, pero también hay basura plástica, verdad? Dentro de esa ruta de peregrinaje. Y, pues, nombrar también, este era un poquito la cereza del del pastel que yo quería dejar para esta conversación, porque, como las dinámicas económicas han afectado rutas comerciales y de peregrinaje que puede que lleven alrededor de 2 mil años de existir, verdad? Tu que te desenvuelves en Oaxaca, puedes preguntar sobre cristo negro de Esquipulas y vas a encontrar a mucha gente que es devota al cristo negro de Esquipulas [00:47:00] y que probablemente tengan una réplica, pues en varios lugares de Oaxaca. Sobre todo el área, pues de el Istmo, verdad? En el, en el área también, zapoteca, vas a encontrar mucha gente que es devota y producto, pues de ello eso, ya lo tenemos, pues registrado antropológicamente. Ya no se da, pero gracias a las abuelas de mi pueblo esto sobrevive y es como nosotros, como Mixco estamos en medio de una ruta comercial entre básicamente, el centro de México y el oriente de Guatemala que está hacia allá. Entonces, pues Esquipulas está casi, en un punto distinto a esta ruta, verdad?Pues hay una memoria de de cómo nuestra gente antigua de Mixco interactuaba comercialmente con gente que venía del centro de México. Y esto lo tenemos evidente en el uso de la indumentaria maya del Poqomam de Mixco, que tiene muchísima influencia de la indumentaria que viene del pueblo [00:48:00] zapoteca, y del pueblo mixteca, en Oaxaca y producto de ello, sé que en el audio no saldrá, pero lo voy a describir. Tenemos acá estas fajas, estas fajas vienen de santo Tomás Jalieza en Oaxaca. Las famosas fajas de Jalieza, que se utilizan en Oaxaca y que formaban parte de la indumentaria antigua de Mixco. Esto cambió más o menos a mediados de los años 60s.Hay memoria, yo escuché de boca de muchas de las señoras antiguas de acá de mi pueblo que decían, venían las mexicanas a vendernos ropa, técnicamente, pero no es la ruta de Tapachula moderna, ahora que se va por la costa, sino que se refieren a textiles. Y esto encontramos fotos, inclusive fotografías del siglo 19, de finales del siglo 19, principios del siglo 20 en el que vemos el uso de estas fajas, y las reconocemos técnicamente por esta figura que seguro, pues ya la, la verás más representada en en Oaxaca. [00:49:00] La gente acá en Mixco le dice a esto los bailadores, en Oaxaca les tienen un nombre, ahora específicamente, no lo recuerdo, pero es gracias a este danzante o bailador que reconocemos las fajas que vienen de ese lugar porque en Guatemala no encuentras ninguna otra faja que sea de este material, porque es lana, o bien puede ser bastante grueso el tejido en telar de cintura con estos diseños.Entonces, gracias a Abisaí Navarro, que ojalá pueda escuchar este material, es un amigo que es de Oaxaca, quien conocí por las redes sociales, en quien básicamente se ha dedicado a documentar las expresiones culturales también de Oaxaca y de la espiritualidad en los pueblos mixteca y zapoteca. Y él me envió estas fajas desde Oaxaca. Osea, yo ya no puedo decir las compré con señoras oaxaqueñas. Yo como mixqueño, no las compré con ellas porque ahora vienen en bus, la dinámica comercial cambió y además en Mixco ya no se usa la [00:50:00] indumentaria maya, de uso diario. Este es por un lado, y por el otro lado, también tenemos a este otro lugar que se llama Yalalag, que es gente zapoteca también, en el cual usan esta prenda sobre la cabeza, ellos le llaman tlacoyales o rodetes, que consiste pues en lana cruda, de de oveja teñida, colocado sobre la cabeza, que es la emulación, pues a una serpiente. Esto, pues, tampoco esto no lo traje de Oaxaca, esto lo conseguí pues gracias a una historiadora justamente de Chichicastenango que Anny conoce, María Jacinta Xón, ella pues su papá se dedicó muchísimo tiempo, y ella también se ha dedicado, pues a la elaboración de hilos y a la obtención de la seda, y el papá de ella que ya descansa, pues fue con quien pudimos investigar un poco de dónde venía esta lana. Esta lana ya no se produce ni siquiera en Chichicastenango, en el contexto de Anny, sino [00:51:00] que básicamente esta es la última que él tuvo la oportunidad de teñir, pero es exactamente la misma lana que inclusive él desconocía su procedencia sin pintar, de dónde venía.Y ahora esto ni siquiera aquí en Guatemala se consigue, entonces es la evidencia de cómo Mixco en medio de una ruta comercial entre básicamente todo el área de el Istmo y la costa sur hacia el oriente de Guatemala, que es otro mundo que, de no haber llegado la invasión española y de no haber este sistema que de alguna forma ha ladinizado decimos nosotros, o sea despojado de su identidad a la gente maya. Y, pues, tendríamos una gran diversidad también de personas en aquel territorio. Y pues es un poco de las dos prendas que acá en Mixco se utilizan todavía por las mujeres que participan en las cofradías, pero los nos hace pensar en las mujeres de Oaxaca también. Es bien curioso. Tengo un video que lo describe, si gustan lo pueden ver allá en mis redes sociales, [00:52:00] aparezco como "hoja de pacaya" y hay un video donde hablo de esto del tecoyal justamente.Anny: Si, Chris y algo que yo, quería como agregar nada más a la conversación. Es el hecho de que, en medio de esta forma de turismo que muchas veces es gentrificador y que también como que estas dinámicas de ir y venir hace que justamente todo alrededor de lo que sucede en Esquipulas pues cambie su dinámica Si bien es cierto, ahora cuando vas tú a Esquipulas, ya hay hoteles de repente, tal vez no de cadena, pero si de cinco estrellas. La gente ha intentado mantener hoteles que sean como de su familia. Pero eso no quita, por ejemplo, que ya haya más lugares de recreación, de consumo, de compra y de intercambio comercial.Porque pues tú sabes que al final, la situación económica, creo que a nivel mundial no es del todo buena para ninguno, [00:53:00] verdad? Entonces, pues siempre se busca la manera como de irte agenciando de ciertos fondos. Pero, ahora que lo pienso mejor, digamos en esta conversación, yo si puedo ver algo muy especial. Por ejemplo, aquí en Guatemala, hay dos lugares más en donde hay peregrinación a ver a cristo negro, que no tienes que ir a Esquipulas y que lo encuentras, aquí, de de donde yo vivo más o menos es a una hora, se llama Chinique de Las Flores. Y luego de Chinique de Las Flores a más o menos como unas tres horas, puedes llegar a Cunén. Cunén, también aquí en K'iche', que son estas, rutas de peregrinación para ir a ver también, réplicas del cristo negro de Esquipulas, pero que entonces ahí si te puedo decir que estamos encontrando aquello que una vez encontramos en Esquipulas [00:54:00] hace más de 400 años por así decirlo, 300 años.Entonces, lo estamos volviendo a encontrar ahí porque, claro, son zonas todavía de pronto un poco más pequeñas, en donde todavía el ambiente es más, comunal, comunitario, en donde, pues todavía es de pueblo, le decimos nosotros, todavía sí que está la esencia conservada de un pueblo. Entonces no se convierte en un lugar para ir a quedarte y pasar ahí una semana, que sé yo, sino que se convierte en un lugar de visita, de recogimiento de sí, ir a hacer tu tu peregrinaje, tu oración, tu penitencia.Entonces, a mí me parece que ahí todavía es en donde, donde se encuentra una esencia muy, muy rica.Chris: Pues, gracias a las energías, a los dioses y dioses que todavía hay lugares y gente que honran esas, esas tradiciones y las de también como Jairo [00:55:00] mencionó, que pues la memoria también está pegado dentro del textil, de tejido, justo tambien he visto como una una bebida chocolatosa tradicional aquí en Oaxaca que, según algunas personas tiene su origen en en el K'iche'. Aunque, se dice que ese proceso, esa receta no existe en el K'iche' ahora, pero todavía la memoria existe dentro de esas prácticas no? Entonces la cuestión de la hiper movilidad y el sentido de guerra constante en muchos sentidos en el el mundo contemporáneo, ¿Cómo piensan que, la peregrinación o las posibilidades de peregrinar pueden ofrecernos una manera, o maneras, o caminos a [00:56:00] socobar, la hiper movilidad, a la guerra, la comida chatarra como mencionaron, estas dinámicas y estructuras económicas que, pues nos están matando poco a poco? ¿Qué clave puede tener la peregrinación en un mundo donde queremos vivir?Anny: Pues yo creo que la responsabilidad de cada uno de nosotros que, que vamos con llevar también mensajes de esperanza, o sea, siempre hay rutas no? Está la ruta migratoria, está la ruta de la mariposa monarca. Está que esa peregrinación que hacen, van y vienen, y estas peregrinaciones que nosotros también hacemos como personas humanas, independientemente de si seamos cristianos o no, pero siempre hay una ruta que tú buscas de peregrinaje para sanar tus [00:57:00] dolores, tus enfermedades, tus traumas, tus miedos, así sea que tú vayas a peregrinar a una montaña, un volcán, un cerro, a una iglesia, a una basílica a donde sea.A mí lo importante, y lo que me parece a mi súper esperanzador es que tú tengas como también ese compromiso de compartir una luz con quienes tú te vayas encontrando en el camino. Puede ser que también tu peregrinaje entonces no parta desde el hecho de, ah voy a ir pensando solo en rezos, no, sino que, ¿Qué también puedo yo compartir en el camino?O sea que otras rutas también puedo ir yo dejando, mencionando, creo que esto lo hemos logrado con bastante efectividad cuando pensamos en las rutas migratorias y como podemos echarle una mano a les compas migrantes verdad?, Entonces a mí me parecería que una estrategia pues muy parecida, podría ayudar bastante, a ver esto con otros ojos y a ver esto, pues más allá de, [00:58:00] o sea, que que siempre podemos hacer varias cosas, cuando tenemos de repente solo una finalidad, pero al final podemos ir haciendo como mucho, entonces yo creo que como mensaje yo, eso te dejaría, o sea que, pues al final en medio de toda esta hiper movilidad, pues que la aprovechemos, no solo para quemar codos, sino para ir dejando otros mensajes a la gente, verdad? De cómo también nos vamos moviendo, movilizando, qué vamos pensando y qué está pasando alrededor del mundo. Jairo: Sí, bueno, entender que nuestras dinámicas han cambiado con el tiempo, que somos una generación que nos tocó ver cambios abismales dentro de las dinámicas de como nos hemos relacionado con otras personas, cómo aprendemos incluso porque ahora pues gracias a la hiper movilidad también, inclusive, pues a la tecnología conocemos nuevas cosas, pero no dejar de lado el en el caso, pues de la gente que peregrina, verdad? Las [00:59:00] reflexiones que hacíamos, el por qué se hace, un poquito, y también el que hacer de nosotros cuando vamos a un lugar y cuando nos movemos, verdad? El hecho de verdad estoy comprando con las personas que son de allí o me estoy yendo a meter un supermercado, de verdad esto beneficia la comunidad o esto beneficia a una empresa, pues que al final explota personas y que les compra super barato y regateado el producto, verdad? Creo que se ha mantenido, pues al menos en Esquipulas esa dinámica de consumir, pues lo que es de allí, la gente, pues esfuerza mucho porque saben que hay, personas de muchos contextos que vienen a ese lugar, por lo menos una vez al año. Entonces, entender estas dinámicas, creo que es un reto también dentro de nuestro contexto y entender también que el humano siempre se ha movido. Gracias a las personas [01:00:00] antiguas que se movieron hace 3 mil años hacia acá es que nosotros tenemos estas evidencias históricas y aprender de esas movilidades también, cómo nosotros generamos un buen impacto cuando nos estamos moviendo, pienso.Chris: Que vamos aprendiendo y recordando a la vez, cómo movernos con respeto y agradecimiento y devoción a lo que nos da vida. Vamos a asegurar que las imágenes de esos textiles hermosas, van a salir con el episodio, en el sitio web web de El Fin del Turismo. Y también los nombres y contactos si quieren de los compas que mencionaste Jairo. Y pues ha sido como un gran conversación, y me dan muchas ganas de seguir con esa [01:01:00] cuestión de peregrinación.Y en el nombre de de nuestros oyentes, me gustaría ofrecerles mis a agradecimientos más sinceros a ambos ustedes por acompañarnos hoy, y estar dispuestos a enfrentar y luchar con algunas de las contradicciones y pues también las colonizaciones que han afectado al acto y al arte de la peregrinación en nuestros tiempos. Si los oyentes tienen ganas a conocer más de lo que ustedes hacen en la vida, ¿Hay una manera de comunicar o conectar?Anny: Sí, por supuesto, en nuestras redes personales, yo soy la curadora en jefe actual de Espacio C, en Chichicastenango, entonces pues por ahí pueden , encontrarme en Instagram, o en Facebook, se escribe [01:02:00] ESPACIO/C ARTE+MEMORIA. Y luego en mis redes personales, por si alguien pues también desea buscar. Yo me encuentro en Instagram como "Anny Puac," así me pueden encontrar a mí también en Instagram para que pues vean, de pronto un poquito también de, de mi trabajo y, luego en nuestras redes comerciales como Los Cofrades Chichicastenango, así me pueden, nos pueden ir encontrando y pues ahora Jairo.Jairo: Gracias. Yo he tratado de crear contenido no de lleno, tampoco tan comercial. He hecho reflexiones en cuanto a estos elementos, ahí sí que de ambos lados, verdad? De la espiritualidad en Guatemala en general, tanto de lo católico como de lo maya, y cómo esto tiene un punto medular, es un poquito lo que ha sido mi [01:03:00] premisa durante los últimos años, evidenciar que no es netamente todo católico, cristiano y que hay elementos pues de la espiritualidad maya que prevalecen como lo que hablamos hoy.Me pueden encontrar pues, como Hoja de Pacaya en las redes sociales. La hoja de pacaya es la que se usa para decorar en las puertas de las fiestas acá en el contexto pues de Guatemala. La pacaya es una palma. También se come la flor durante los viajes, justo durante los peregrinajes. La flor de la pacaya se envuelve con huevo y se le pone salsa de tomate encima y es algo muy para viajar. Y pues, a la hoja de pacaya le dicen dentro del contexto guatemalteco a las personas que les gusta la fiesta y que no se pierden ninguna.Entonces es un poco la premisa de mi usuario, porque pues sí, me gusta documentar las fiestas, pues que se llevan a cabo en Guatemala con trasfondo, quizá de análisis [01:04:00] y de reflexión. Y pues, gracias por el espacio. Estoy muy agradecido por ello, a ambos. Chris: De nuevo, muchísimas gracias a ustedes dos por sus tiempos hoy, por sus reflexiones y sus compromisos en el mundo, en la vida. Anny: Qué gusto conocerte también. Y pues ahí estamos siempre en comunicación. Yo te de con un fuerte abrazo y no haber un fuerte abrazo a tierra que de Oaxaca también.English TranscriptionChris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast The End of Tourism Annie and Jairo. Thank you both for joining me today. I would love for you to tell our listeners where you are calling from and what the world looks like there for each of you.Anny: Thank you very much, Chris, and good morning to everyone listening, or good afternoon or good evening, depending on your time zone.My name is Anny and I greet you from the K'iche' Mayan territory of Chuwila, K'iche' Guatemala specifically.Jairo: Good morning to both of you, it's a pleasure to be here. Sawe ta inteer winaq (Good morning to all of you) a pleasure from the Poqomam territory of Mixco and also from the outskirts of Guatemala City, thank you for this [00:01:00] opportunity to share knowledge.Chris: And thank you both. I'm here in Oaxaca and the world seems obviously a little weird. Well, maybe not obviously, but it seems weirder by the day. We're here today to talk about Esquipulas in Guatemala. And Esquipulas is the site of several churches that have housed the Black Christ of the town, which is famous for its supposed miracles for the past four centuries.Similarly, the pilgrimage to the shrine is the largest in Central America and the second largest in the Americas, with, from what I read, 5 million people visiting it every year. Now, to start, would you be willing to explain what prompted each of [00:02:00] your interests or relationships with this place and the practice of pilgrimage?Anny: Yes, of course Chris. Well, from my personal or individual relationship as a family, I have, let's say, a clear idea of when these pilgrimages began, suddenly, when I was about seven or eight years old, so, to tell you that I have clarity, but when I go back to the family archives, well, I see that the issue of going on pilgrimage to Esquipulas, well, it begins with my grandmothers.Jairo: So I could tell you that within my family, the pilgrimage to Esquipulas, well, maybe it has been present in the family for at least 80 years, especially on my maternal grandmother's side . She is from a K'iche' territory in Quetzaltenango , where they would begin the trip, together, there was a neighborhood trip organized by the neighborhood, or it was a family trip, so one or two buses would go at that time when there wasn't much transportation, right? It was also a luxury to go by some route where there was a bus stop. And well, what couldn't be traveled by bus, well, it was done on foot, they used donkeys, but, more or less that's where the story of how these pilgrimage routes began in my family, let's say.In our case, I was not aware of having arrived in Esquipulas when I was little. Well, there is a very interesting fact, when I was 40 days old, my family decided to take me to [00:04:00] Esquipulas, so that is in the family's photo archive as a thank you, because in the end I was born with... I was born well.Jairo: And then the family decides to go on a pilgrimage. This is the closest information I have about the person going to Esquipulas. Of course, I have always been very familiar with this within my immediate context, since people from my municipality tend to go organized in excursions from the different religious organizations that exist in my municipality.These, well, designate dates and are buses filled with approximately 50 people. Each bus usually arrives up to three, from here in Mixco, well, they go to Esquipulas. And that is something very interesting because it is, well, part of modernity, let's say going by bus, but there are many anecdotes from people from here in town who [00:05:00] tell how, well, they went in a more rustic way, right? It could be, well, on a walking pilgrimage, which was not the only pilgrimage, in fact that of the black Christ of Esquipulas. Today, specifically, we are going to talk about it.But there are also the pilgrimages to Antigua Guatemala, which is very close by. Here behind us there is a hill called Alux Hill. This hill was crossed on foot, and people still do so on foot, because behind the hill is the descent to get to Antigua Guatemala.Chris: Thank you. Thank you all. So, to learn a little more about your stories, like the pilgrimage, I would like to know a little more if you could offer something about the long history of Esquipulas, of the black Christ and well, how did the pilgrimage originate? Where does that story come from?Jairo: Well, as I mentioned before, saying some [00:06:00] words in the Poqomam language. It is the language that was spoken, well, in our town. I'm going to say it again more slowly to, well, describe to you what I said, technically it is:closely related and intrinsic to the people of Mixco and also to the Oaxacan territory.My name is Jairo, Jairo Andrés Chamale Lemus. I belong to this territory, to the Poqomam Mayan people. Half of my family and my ancestors are from here. And, well, I am dedicated to tourism. I have been a tourist guide for approximately eight years , since I graduated very young. And, well, I have dedicated myself to pilgrimages so that people also learn about the historical context of Guatemala and the different cultural, religious and also resistance expressions of the people in the territory of what we now know as Guatemala.Well, I am also a student of anthropology, specifically a bachelor's degree in anthropology, and I have also dedicated myself to studying the case of the Poqomam Mayan language in Mixco, which is a community very close to Guatemala City, which has had a very strong demographic and social impact, due to the growth of the metropolitan area of Guatemala City. It is something that I have dedicated myself to studying during the last few years. And also, well, to [00:08:00] documenting it, because we have many cultural and spiritual practices in our town, which have been disappearing as the city's demographic advances, thank you very much. Rontyoox aq'oo ta Anny: Well Chris . In fact there is a record, let's say historical , which says that the first pilgrimage to Esquipulas was in March 1595 , when the image left the workshop of this sculptor Quirio Cataño, heading towards Esquipulas, towards Chiquimula. This is in the east of Guatemala. We know it as the hot zone of Guatemala. But it is the zone, let's say, like hot arid . It is a territory where there is a Xinca, Popti' community, if I'm not mistaken, Chortí as well . And so, the production that is [00:09:00] They have in the lands over there, we are talking about fruits from some plants, some tubers more or less, but most of them are dedicated to fruit, right ?This first pilgrimage is documented and recorded by the chronicler, who is called Miguel Álvarez. And he says that, when he left from the workshop and headed towards Esquipulas, the image was performing different miracles along the way until reaching the basilica . Then there were people who asked him precisely that, please, that the image spend at least one night inside the house of people to bless it. And more or less it is estimated every year, let's say currently, now in Guatemala and around 300 thousand people from all over the world, mostly between Mexico, Central America, southern countries, for example from Peru [00:10:00] from Ecuador from Ecuador, Bolivia, if I'm not mistaken, it is like a lot of people who arrive, more or less between November, which right now is like a date from November to December and all of January, let's say, those are like the three months with the greatest influx of people who arrive at the basilica, right? So you can call it a pilgrimage , you can call it a pilgrimage, what pilgrimage, usually, well there if the people who visit can do like a day's visit only or it can be that a visit can be extended for up to 10, 15 days, right?From Guatemala City to Esquipulas there is a distance of approximately 220 to 250 kilometers and if you go on a pilgrimage, you go through very specific places along the entire pilgrimage, on average [00:11:00] Every day you are doing a stretch of 40 kilometers, a day, let's say if your intention is to go on a pilgrimage like that . So that's more or less like more historical data and the story, right?Chris: And I'm a little curious, inside the estancias, when I arrive at Esquipulas, if I were on a pilgrimage, for example, what would I do? Do they stop to say their prayers? I would like to know from someone who has never made a pilgrimage, how it looked those days before coming.Anny: Well, I'm going to tell you a little bit about my family's story because My maternal grandmother, she was a lady, very Catholic, right? So, for her, her pilgrimage, let's say, was her sacrifice, right? In the year, to say well, out of gratitude [00:12:00] to my health, to the miracles that she granted me, because she was very devout. It was the fact of going on a pilgrimage route. What did this imply? Even preparing food so as to not say waste time, thinking about what to eat along the way, because the idea for them was, well, to go in a kind of contemplation, in constant prayer, in prayer, let's say in petition, to stop every so often, right? Every 40 kilometers, because within the Catholic-Christian community, there are points that are marked within the route where you can stop with each family, because they may have a replica of the image of the black Christ, because in fact, when the first pilgrimage was, this family may have been one of the [00:13:00] families who first received the black Christ.So it becomes like that stopping point, right? So, when they make that stopping point, they go down. They go down to pray, they go down to talk and to socialize with people, maybe, to share a meal. And to feel, well, like thei

What makes a place feel like home? For Diego, it wasn't where he was born but where he felt most connected—Oaxaca. In this episode, he shares how his Mixtec heritage led him back to his family's origins, how a chance job offer introduced him to the world of beekeeping, and how working with rural communities shaped his understanding of purpose. Whether you're interested in cultural identity, unexpected career paths, or the fascinating traditions of Oaxaca, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration.Key Takeaways:The pull of ancestral roots and the meaning of cultural identityHow unexpected opportunities can lead to deep personal growthThe importance of community and responsibility in shaping one's pathRelevant Links And Additional Resources:131 – Cultura Y Chocolate Con Ervit De Chimalapa | Culture And Cacao With Ervit From ChimalapaBoost your confidence in real-life Spanish conversations with our Spanish Immersion RetreatsLevel up your Spanish with our Podcast MembershipGet the full transcript of each episode so you don't miss a wordListen to an extended breakdown section in English going over the most important words and phrasesTest your comprehension with a multiple choice quizIf you enjoy Learn Spanish and Go, please consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or Pandora. This helps us reach more listeners like Made in Spain Whether you're an expat chasing the dream, a traveller inspired by European elegance...Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show

Photographers have a magical ability to transport us to hidden worlds, giving us intimate access to facets of society that would otherwise go unnoticed. Above photograph © Marcela Taboada In today's podcast, we sit down with Mexican photographer Marcela Taboada, whose long-term documentary projects offer revealing glimpses into underrecognized communities, for Picturing World Cultures. Combining a passion for making pictures that let her “see backstage,” with a knack for “knocking doors” and the tenacity to win over resistant subjects, Marcela gained rare access to photograph the daily lives of Mexico's cloistered nuns. Follow her painstaking process and learn the secret to her acceptance as the nuns' photography godmother during our chat.     We also discuss her series “Women of Clay,” documenting the enterprising women of a Mixtec village, who singlehandedly rebuilt their homes after an earthquake using Adobe bricks and a process taught by a Mexican architect. Along the way, Marcela shares insights about the challenges of pursuing a photography career as a single mother with young children and reveals the lessons she learned from seeing aspects of her own story reflected in the lives of her subjects.  If you haven't already listened, check out all the episodes of our Picturing World Cultures podcast series here. Guest: Marcela Taboada Episode Timeline: 2:21: Marcela's process in making pictures that let her “see backstage.”  5:15: A childhood memory and her fascination with viewing the stars from an observatory built by her great uncle.  10:16: Marcela's introduction to cameras and the darkroom by photographing family trips. 13:24: University studies and a photo series inspired by her great aunt entering a Mexican nursing home.  18:13: Marcela's photo gear and juggling her early photo career while raising two children as a single mother. 22:52: Marcela's photo series Women of Clay, about a community of enterprising women who rebuilt their homes after an earthquake. 35:19: Episode Break 36:30: Marcela's project Consecrated, and some background on Catholic monasteries in Mexico. 43:46: The seven orders of Mexican cloistered nuns, Marcela's long process to gain access to photograph, and the miracle that finally convinced the nuns to let her in. 53:51: Marcela's role as photography godmother for the Conceptionist order, and her approach to photographing the lives of the nuns. 1:00:38: The decision to photograph in color with a lightweight Sony RX camera for quiet operation and a contemporary look.  1:02:31: The nuns' reaction to Marcela's pictures and the ways in which they've adapted to 21st century life. 1:08:09: Marcela Taboada answers our PWC Visual Questionnaire. Guest Bio: Marcela Taboada is a freelance photographer based in Oaxaca, Mexico since 1986. After initial studies in graphic design, she became drawn to photographing diverse communities for long-term stories that let her see backstage. Marcela has received both national and international accolades, including a Hasselblad Foundation scholarship, a National Geographic All Roads Photography Award, and Mexico's most prestigious art grant, the National System of Art Creators Award, which she received twice. Her photographs have been featured in solo and group exhibitions within Mexico and the United States, Europe, and Asia. Marcela has taught photography at universities, in high schools and in specialized workshops. Additionally, for 16 years she served as producer for American photographer Mary Ellen Mark's Annual Oaxaca Photo Workshops.  Stay Connected: Marcela Taboada Website: https://www.marcelataboada.com/ Marcela Taboada's National Geographic story: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/photo-story-consecrated-mexico-monasteries/ End Credits: Senior Creative Producer & Host: Jill Waterman Senior Technical Producer: Mike Weinstein Theme Music: Gabriel Richards Executive Producer: Richard Stevens

Send us a textFernando Laposse is not only a true inspiration but a great storyteller. His designs are constructed throughout deep levels of culture, challenges, heritage and his great love for his home country Mexico. During our interview we talked about the essential importance of provenance, material, natural pigment and showcasing the story of indigenous communities and their daily struggles through his design work. Fernando Laposse is a Mexican designer with a degree in product design from Central St. Martins. His practice is material driven and focuses on transforming humble materials into refined design pieces, promoting their regenerative possibilities and tackling environmental issues. For Fernando, the material source and cultural context is of extreme importance. This has led him to forge a long-standing collaboration with Tonahuixtla, a community of Mixtec farmers in the south of Mexico. Rather than working with existing craft, Fernando develops new techniques from scratch which are then taught to members of the community. This in turn creates new sources of employment that revitalise traditional agriculture. Fernando's projects also strive to communicate the complexity of issues like the loss of biodiversity, erosion, indigenous rights, migration, and the negative impacts of global trade on local agriculture. He does so by documenting the problems and announcing possible resolutions through the transformative power of craft and design. Fernando Laposse focuses on using lesser-known plant fibers like sisal, loofah, totomoxtle, and avocado in his work. He invests time in research to create pieces that not only showcase these materials but also highlight their connection to the culture and history of specific places and their people. Laposse works with indigenous communities in Mexico to help create jobs and bring attention to the challenges they face in today's world. His projects aim to educate and inform, addressing issues such as environmental decline, loss of biodiversity, community breakdown, migration, and the negative effects of global trade on local farming and food traditions. Laposse leads the way in documenting these problems and suggesting solutions through the power of design, showing how design can help make a difference.Thank you for listening! Follow us through our website or social media!https://www.thecolorauthority.com/podcasthttps://www.instagram.com/the_color_authority_/https://www.linkedin.com/company/78120219/admin/

In this week's episode of then & now, we present a recording of a recent event hosted by the UCLA History Department, "Why History Matters: Reproductive Rights and Justice." This event brought together experts to explore the far-reaching effects of the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization decision in June 2022. Hosted by Kevin Terraciano, the conversation delves into the historical misuse of legal doctrines to limit reproductive freedoms and calls for a comprehensive reproductive justice framework that extends beyond abortion to include the right to have or not have children and to raise children in safe environments. Professor Cary Franklin critiques the Supreme Court's "history and tradition" test in Dobbs, arguing it distorts historical perspectives on liberty and equality, while Dean Alexandra Minna Stern discusses the lasting impacts of eugenic sterilization on marginalized groups, emphasizing how patterns of reproductive oppression persist today. Professor Elizabeth O'Brien examines Mexico's recent Supreme Court rulings decriminalizing abortion and highlights grassroots activism's role in shaping a broader framework for reproductive rights in Latin America. In the U.S., maternal mortality and preventable deaths have risen sharply since the Dobbs decision, underscoring the panel's call for historical research to inform advocacy as surveillance and criminalization of reproductive health grow. Through these comparative perspectives, the discussion powerfully illustrates how understanding historical contexts can guide efforts to protect and expand reproductive rights in the U.S.Kevin Terraciano is a Professor and the Department Chair of History at UCLA. He specializes in Latin American history, especially Mexico and the Indigenous cultures and languages of central and southern Mexico. Among many books and translations, he is the author of The Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca: Ñudzahui History, Sixteenth through Eighteenth Centuries, a comprehensive study of Mixtec society and their adaptation to colonial rule.Cary Franklin is the McDonald/Wright Chair of Law at UCLA and serves as the faculty director of the Williams Institute at UCLA as well as the Center on Reproductive Health, Law, and Policy. Her work has appeared in numerous publications including the Harvard Law Review, the Michigan Law Review, the NYU Law Review, the Supreme Court Review, the Virginia Law Review, and the Yale Law Journal.Alexandra Minna Stern is a professor of English and history and the Dean of UCLA's Division of Humanities. She co-directs the Sterilization and Social Justice Lab, which studies eugenic sterilization practices in the U.S. and their impact on marginalized groups. She is the author of the award-winning Eugenic Nation: Faults and Frontiers of Better Breeding in Modern America, and the author of Telling Genes: The Story of Genetic Counseling in America, which was named a Choice 2013 Outstanding Academic Title in Health Sciences.Elizabeth O'Brien is an Assistant Professor in the UCLA Meyer and Renee Luskin Department of History, specializing in the history of reproductive health in Mexico. Professor O'Brien is also a member of the cross-field group in the History of Gender and Sexuality. Professor O'Brien's 2023 book on colonialism and reproductive healthcare in Mexico, Surgery and Salvation: The 

Lila Downs is one of the most influential artists in Latin America. She has one of the most unique voices in the world and is known for her charismatic performances. His own compositions combine genres and rhythms as diverse as Mexican rancheras and corridos, boleros, jazz standards, hip-hop, cumbia and popular American music. Frequently her lyrics focus on justice, immigration and women's problems.She grew up in both Minnesota and Oaxaca, Mexico, her mother is from the Mixtec indigenous group and her father was Scottish-American. Lila sings in Spanish, English and several native American languages ​​such as Zapotec, Mixtec, Nahuatl, Mayan and Purepecha.She has recorded duets with artists as diverse as Mercedes Sosa, Caetano Veloso, Juanes, Nora Jones, Juan Gabriel, Carla Morison, Natalia LaFourcade, Santana , The boss, Nina Pastori, Soledad, Diego La Cigala, Aida Cuevas, Toto La Momposina, and Bunbury. Chavela Vargas “named” Lila as her “successor.”She has been invited to sing with symphonies such as the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the San Francisco Symphony and the UNAM Symphony in Mexico, as well as with Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. He has given concerts at Carnegie Hall, the Lincoln Center, the Teatro Colón in Buenos Aires, the Hollywood Bowl and the National Auditorium in Mexico City. She was invited by Barack Obama to sing in the White House, and acted in the Oscars for her participation in the film Frida. Lila has recorded nine studio albums.She has been nominated for nine Grammy awards and has won six.Maggie & Lila discuss her first appearance at the infamous Monterey Jazz Festival and her amazing performance + members of her current band. Source: https://www.liladowns.com/language/en/Host Maggie LePique, a radio veteran since the 1980's at NPR in Kansas City Mo. She began her radio career in Los Angeles in the early 1990's and has worked for Pacifica station KPFK Radio in Los Angeles since 1994.Send us a textSupport the show@profileswithmaggielepique@maggielepique

Hugo Morales (Mixtec) rose from his Indigenous family farming roots in Oaxaca, Mexico to found Radio Bilingue, the largest Latino radio network in the United States. The network continues to offer a diverse array of programming in English, Spanish, Mixtec, and Triqui languages. Morales earned money while going to school by picking fruit in California. Among his many accomplishments and honors, he ultimately earned a law degree from Harvard University. He continues his strong commitment to educate others. We'll hear from Morales about his journey and where he's going next. Plus, we'll hear closing coverage of the 2024 Democratic National Convention with Native Vote 2024 contributor Shaun Griswold from Source NM.

Hugo Morales (Mixtec) rose from his Indigenous family farming roots in Oaxaca, Mexico to found Radio Bilingue, the largest Latino radio network in the United States. The network continues to offer a diverse array of programming in English, Spanish, Mixtec, and Triqui languages. Morales earned money while going to school by picking fruit in California. Among his many accomplishments and honors, he ultimately earned a law degree from Harvard University. He continues his strong commitment to educate others. We'll hear from Morales about his journey and where he's going next. Plus, we'll hear closing coverage of the 2024 Democratic National Convention with Native Vote 2024 contributor Shaun Griswold from Source NM.

In this episode, AAAS STPF fellow Jose Hurtado sits down with Dr. Omar Aguilar, a Mixtec archaeologist from Oaxaca, to discuss his innovative approach to science communication through the lens of his film "Sacred Skins." Dr. Aguilar shares his journey of reappropriating Mixtec heritage and language, the challenges of balancing academic research with community ownership, and the powerful impact of reclaiming indigenous knowledge systems. Join us as we explore how alternative methods can bridge cultural gaps and foster a deeper understanding of the rich history of the Ñuu Savi people. The co-founder of Colectivo Nchivi Ñuu Savi (People of the Community of the Rain), Dr. Aguilar is also the director of the digital project “Códices Mixtecos.” Additionally, he directs the Ñuu Savi Culture and Language project within The Americas Research Network (ARENET). Dr. Aguilar is also  a founding member of the Universidad Autónoma Comunal de Oaxaca (UACO) and has been a member of Mexico's National System of Researchers since 2022. He has received numerous accolades, including the 2016 INAH Award, the National Youth Award in 2019, and the 2021 INAH Award for his doctoral dissertation. He also conceptualized and co-created the app Códices Mixtecos.

On this episode, my guest is Manish Jain, a man deeply committed to regenerating our diverse local knowledge systems, cultural imaginations and inter-cultural dialogue. Inspired by MK Gandhi, Rabindranath Tagore,  Ivan Illich, his illiterate village grandmother, his unschooled daughter, indigenous communities and Jain spiritual philosophy, he is one of the leading planetary voices for deschooling our lives and reimagining education. He has served for the past 25 years as Chief Beaver (ecosystems builder) of Shikshantar: The Peoples' Institute for Rethinking Education and Development based in Udaipur, India and is co-founder of some of the most innovative educational experiments in the world - the Swaraj University, the Jail University, Complexity University, Tribal Farmversity, the Creativity Adda, the Learning Societies Unconference, the Walkouts-Walk-on network, Udaipur as a Learning City, the Families Learning Together network, Berkana Exchange.  He co-launched the global Ecoversities Alliance with 500+ members in 50 countries. Show Notes:Kidnapped by the American DreamGrandma's UniversityReclaiming our Cultural ImaginationCultural Imagination for the Culturally HomelessThe Radical and Exponential Power of TrustUnlearning Cultural Appropriation in the Oral TraditionJugard, or “playful improvisation”Being Reclaimed by AncestorsSwaraj University - Money, Love, and DeathAlivelihoods and DeadlihoodsTraditions of Hospitality in RajasthanEcoversitiesHomework:Swaraj University WebsiteEcoversities WebsiteJugaad (Wikipedia)Transcript:[00:00:00] Welcome, Manish, to the End of Tourism podcast. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you, Chris. Great to be here. Great to be with you. Speaking of here, I was wondering if you could share with our listeners where you find yourself today and maybe what the world looks like for you where you are. Yes, I live in a very magical place called Udaipur.It's in Rajasthan, India. I have been here for the last 25 years. Before that I was moving cities every year. I was living in the U. S. and Europe. And my village is about two hours from where I live, from the city. And I have lots of relatives here, lots of ancestors around. And this happens to be one of the major tourist destinations of India.So it's an interesting combination of very [00:01:00] cosmopolitan kind of global jet set coming in, but also lots of traditional culture, local knowledge, still alive. We were lucky to be called backwards and underdeveloped. And so many things have remained but again under, under continuous threat by kind of urbanization and global economy.But yeah, it's a very beautiful place, lots of palaces, lakes all kinds of animals on the street. On a good day you'll see an elephant walking down the street or a camel just in our neighborhoods and yeah, I love it here. So it's, I mean, it's found a place in my heart for sure. Hmm. What a gift. What a gift to, to live in a place that you love and, you know, it seems to be that question at the heart of the themes of the podcast and in that regard, I wanted to begin by asking you a little bit about your journey, Manish. So[00:02:00] from what I've read, from what I've heard, a lot of your work centers around de schooling and unlearning, specifically with Swaraj University and other educational endeavors, Ecoversities being one of them.And I'd like to return to those themes and projects in a little bit and start by asking you, among other things, about your earlier accolades as a Harvard graduate and someone with a degree from Brown University. One of your bios says that you worked for, among others the American multinational investment bank, Morgan Stanley, as well as UNESCO, UNICEF, World Bank, and USAID in South Asia, Africa, and the former Soviet Union.And so I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share what led to your initial involvement in these rather prominent institutions, and then subsequently, what led to leaving them behind thereafter? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, hearing that [00:03:00] always gives me the shivers a little bit. It's like such a long time ago now. But so I kind of actually grew up with a deep sense of wanting to serve, serve the world. And when I was growing up I actually, I tell people I was kidnapped when I was three years old, born in India, but then taken to the U. S. Kidnapped by the American dream, which I over time realized was a nightmare for most of the planet. So this deep sense of service has always been, been with me, maybe from my mother, from my father, from my grandparents, many, many sources from, inspired by also Gandhi and, and Tagore and many other Indian freedom fighters.But I kind of grew up with this narrative, if you want to serve, you should go to the big places, the places of big power, those institutions, that's where you can influence, that's where you can make the most impact. And so that kind of was a trajectory that I, I kind of [00:04:00] got put on I kind of was very good.I never liked being in these institutions, but I was very good at faking it I faked it through school all the way to Harvard and, and so I was pretty good at faking it and eventually it caught up with me and I started feeling like I was becoming a fake. So, but going to those places I thought there were, you know, those were the centers of power and that when I got there, I started feeling that these places, each of these places, one by one, I started realizing that they were actually quite powerless in many ways, surrounded by a sense of scarcity and fear and very limited imagination.And so one by one, I became disillusioned with each of each of those places. I was expecting that, you know, these would be the places which could help serve humanity, but I realized that they were built on, you know, this continuous model of extraction and colonization and exploitation of [00:05:00] life.And so even with education, I felt like, okay education will be the solution and I started realizing that education was a huge part of the problem. And so that's what led me started me on the de schooling path to try to see how we can find other ways besides relying on these institutions and the logic of capitalism and commodification to solve our problems. You know, over time I started really developing a severe mistrust of experts.I was one of them, like, although I'm fake and so are the rest of these guys. So by the time I was 28, I hit the wall. And I was like I don't have anywhere else to go, I've been to all these big places, and I don't really see, see any hope from them. I don't think they can be repaired either or that they can actually take the kinds of initiatives that are needed to change the game.So that's what led me back to India then[00:06:00] to be with my illiterate village grandmother. And I thought I'll take care of her. And then I, my wife and I realized that we had inadvertently become part of our grandmother's university and she was our unlearning guru. To both Get beyond I would say a lot of our own fears and anxieties, get beyond a lot of the, let's say Western liberal do gooder frameworks, get beyond our attachment to institutions just to solve things for us and start to understand and remember, I think remembering is a word that I have discussed many times with old common friend of ours, Gustavo Esteva, but start to remember that we have much more richness and wealth and creativity, possibility within us and our, and within our communities. So that's been a little bit of the journey to re remember and reclaim and reimagine things.I [00:07:00] remember seeing in one of your talks that you said that your work or to you, what you understood your work to be is, is a way of reclaiming our cultural imagination. I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on that. Yeah, I think basically I think the deepest form of colonization has happened is to our imaginations.And there is a phrase from the eighties from Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher called TINA. "There Is No Alternative." So, as there was an uprising that started happening around the world questioning the dominant development paradigm, the global economy, it was quickly suppressed, repressed by this phrase, TINA.This is the best system that we have, and you know, there's, there's nothing beyond it, so you should just try to improve what's there. And so I think what then [00:08:00] people are forced into is to try to fix or let's say work with what is the existing frameworks and definitions that we have been fed about things like progress or development or success or happiness and then we are all in a very deep endless losing race to try to catch up with something.And we're not even sure what happens when you win. Maybe that's where it hit me. You know, there's a saying, if you, if you beat them at their own game, you lose everything. And so I kind of started realizing that personally, and also when I was looking at the development paradigm more different more closely.So I think, you know, what else is possible first of beyond the kind of logic of the rational mind, what's possible beyond the anthropocentric perspectives that we have on life, what's possible beyond global corporations and institutions deciding what's best for us, what's [00:09:00] possible beyond markets and technologies as the solutions for all of the planet's woes.I think that's what we're trying to explore when I talk about cultural imagination. And I, I think that the first step is to open up the definitions again. This is another thing I think many of my elders, Gustavo, and, Ivan Illich and a person here in India who was a friend of Gustavo's, Claude Alvarez, many were urging us that we need to open up the definitions of things.So that's what usually I think in a lot of the decolonial movements, what didn't happen that we accepted their definitions of development of the good life, all of those things. And then we started pursuing that, but actually it's a very exciting time that we can actually crack that open. And see, okay, what is it?Little Bhutan, a country of 700, 000. People asking, you know, what is happiness? And saying that[00:10:00] you know, the West, you guys have all the money, you guys have all the technology, you have all the armies, but are your people happy? So I think, you know, this is happening in obviously in Latin America, "buen vivir," in India, Swaraj, so many movements, which I think are challenging the given definitions and creating a space for us to dream differently, to tap into a different worldview which recognizes a sense of the sacred and recognizes that we are not just, you know, cogs in the machine in terms of our purpose on this earth. So I think those are, that's a little bit of what I mean by reclaiming the cultural imagination. Hmm. And you mentioned Swaraj and I'm really excited to dive into that and see where this notion of reclaiming cultural imagination fits there in a place and not just in philosophies.But I wanted to ask you this kind of this little follow up question in regards to the cultural imagination. Because we've [00:11:00] had the great honor to befriend and learn from people like Gustavo. But I think of my family and friends and compañeros, colleagues in Toronto, major North American metropolis.And I wonder how reclaiming the cultural imagination looks like or could be for people who would consider themselves either cultural orphans or culturally homeless. You know I mean, you and I have distinct ties, it seems, and a lived memory to the places our people moved or migrated from or still live in.And so there's a bridge of sorts that already exists that on some level can still be crossed. What about the people who have no lived memory of where their people come from or who would admit, or at least can offer up the idea that they have no culture? Yeah, so, oh, that's a great question. So, [00:12:00] I think maybe the first thing I would kind of offer in that situation is that one is a question of how to reconnect to the land and the territory you live in the place, the water, the rivers, the mountains, the forests. There's a tremendous amount of memory that, that lives in the place which can help us recover parts of ourselves that have been lost. The other is, I think, in terms of reconnecting to our bodies again, there's a tremendous amount of wisdom. We can recover again from our own bodies, from our breath also reconnecting to our breath in a very profound way and help us recover things.And also when I talk about culture, I think the essence of culture without being an essentialist, is is what I call gift culture. Mm-Hmm. So this culture of, of connection, of care, of kindness, of trust, of hospitality, of [00:13:00] forgiveness. There's so many traditions like that, wherever we are, and we can also create new traditions around these things.And so, a lot of times we confuse culture for the food or for the clothes or for the music of a place. But I think the deeper level of all culture is a gift culture, which is a reminder of the interconnectedness of life, the thread that is woven through all of us, connects us to something very sacred and even divine in some sense.So, I think that reconnecting to the spirit of kindness and care is a huge step. We've been doing a lot of experiments over the years around gift culture and reconnecting to a field of trust again. I call it the radical and exponential power of trust.Much of our work and I would almost say in the miracles that I see every day in our work are because of this field of trust that we have been able to reconnect to and this is what my [00:14:00] grandmother, I think, was helping me to reconnect to in terms of culture is because I remember growing up in the U. S. this continuous thing of don't trust anyone, don't trust your neighbors, don't trust anyone, somebody, anybody is being kind to you because they may have an angle. They may steal from you or cheat from you or whatever, and I think it took me a lot of healing to come out of that and that has been a phenomenal journey in terms of opening up possibilities for how I connect, and one other thing I would say is that.A lot of, I know this has been a major unlearning area because I used to be very critical of all of this cultural appropriation that we see in the West, people picking up things in here, here and there. But as I've been in India and I've become more connected to the oral traditions, very different kind of ethics and philosophy and ways of, of living and doing things that lives in an oral tradition.Like [00:15:00] I grew up with this strong fear of, you know, plagiarism. You know, that was the one thing Harvard and Brown hammer you is about plagiarizing. Cite every word. Chris said this, or Gustavo said this, right? And I found in the oral tradition, there's a different kind of trickster level playfulness that you can take anything, play with anything.You don't have to cite, you can modify, you can change, you can adapt. And I think I've been trying to bring that more into these conversations around cultural appropriation, because I think people get so afraid nowadays of being bashed for exploring a different culture for taking things.Obviously, there is a level of depth and engagement and commitment, dedication to understanding something that I would invite in that. But being able to pick up things, I think has been part of our culture. People take things and spread them and appropriate them in ways that keep them alive and moving so it's something I've been exploring a [00:16:00] lot is that it seems very much more controlling and part of the old paradigm to say that we need to protect and there are certain cultural gatekeepers and certain kinds of people who who will tell you you're right or wrong in the culture.So I also would want to open up that conversation, exploration with people. Thank you. You know what I mean? You know what I mean with that? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It definitely points towards a notion of cultures being static and that there being a degree of authenticity, a kind of original foundation or culture for a people which seems to be a relic of 19th century anthropology and things like that.And, and a restriction that we are just these bodies in this present time. You know, in India, obviously we talk about reincarnation and so there, there may be other, other cultures within us and that we've lived that [00:17:00] want to express themselves and want to be opened in this life as well, which maybe our body and our place doesn't necessarily give us that opportunity, but the possibility exists, or the the desire even if is there so. I would want to invite us to all of that as well. Mm hmm, and you've been speaking a lot about how your time in India has really been an opportunity for you to unlearn, maybe disassociate a little bit from the taught worldview that you had in the United States.And this next question comes from a friend of ours dear friend Erin, and She wanted to ask about your move to India or move back depending on how you choose to understand it and how that experience has been for you as someone who grew up on the other side of the world and what do you think it means in the context of [00:18:00] your migration to be claimed or reclaimed by a place.Beautiful. Yeah. I think it's been quite a powerful and even I would say magical journey because as you said, the place and the people reclaim me. Part of it is that, you know, my relatives are here, my ancestors are here. And so at times when I felt, you know, a little bit out of place they reminded me that I belong here and I'm welcome here.And I think what I've made a very strong effort to do is to reground myself in different ways and maybe those ways have been made the transition more smooth or beautiful in one way. So one is like, you know, a lot of the ideas, for example, or work that I'm doing I've tried to find cultural reference points and stories that makes sense because initially when I came, a lot of the things I was talking about, [00:19:00] people were like, oh, that's another Western idea. That's something you're just bringing. It's not Indian, blah, blah, whatever. So I started to look for stories in the past. So when I talk about my university, Swaraj University, I tell people it's 5, 000 years old. Our first chancellor was from the Mahabharata, Ekalavya, the story of Ekalavya, the first documented, self-designed learner and so that all of a sudden something clicks differently for people of how they hear it, how they connect it. When I talk about, for example, when we used to talk a lot, Erin, since you brought her up, we explored a lot of zero waste and upcycling together.There's a word in Hindi, jugard, which means playful improvisation. So, using our own words to describe it rather than trying to take everything from English and translate it. But also I'd say, you know, like people would say, again, zero waste. This is a Western sustainability thing. I said, no no, wait a second.Our grandmothers are all zero waste masters. So, you [00:20:00] know, let us understand that all of these ideas are actually connected to many things that we have in our own culture. So that's made it a very beautiful thing because it's not only being welcoming, it's actually unleashing a lot of energy that had been pent up with people like fear and you know, self -limiting, self-belief, self -suppression in a sense.So all of a sudden hearing that, Oh, this is actually has roots in who we are, has opened up a lot for ways we engage in people to accept me and some of the ideas and experiments we've been sharing. So that's been good. And I think the other thing is really a kind of regrounding. So when I moved back, I was good at PowerPoint and Excel.My worldview was through Microsoft products, right? So what I learned again was to reconnect to farming and our food systems. And I think Aerin and Yeyo's journey is also, we've been together on this for many years, but [00:21:00] also to local language again, and you know, making our own clothes, building our own buildings, you know our own healing techniques and plants here. So, just reconnecting to a lot of those things have helped the place to welcome me in different ways and also me to be able to build different relationships with a lot of diverse people here as well. And I think the third thing is really that just to add was like this, one of the deschooling ideas was to core is to shed these labels of failures of looking, you know, at only educated people as intelligent.So there's so much wisdom and creativity and beauty and love that is with people who don't have degrees. And so being able to see that because I was able to let go of these labels and these frameworks has really helped me again, beautifully connecting with many people and many energies here.Wonderful. And [00:22:00] do you think that those, those points that you just mentioned, that they were causes or consequences of you and your people there opening Swaraj University? Or did it evolve into that? It happened, you know, like I said, we have more than a thousand faculty in Swaraj University, and they are grandmothers and farmers and artisans and mountains and lakes and, and trees, the human, the more than human. The one other thing that's really been very powerful is, you know, the place I live in, I would say about 80 percent of the people living here talk to their ancestors. Like without a shaman, they can, you know, like my cousins or my aunt can channel ancestors and we would have all night prayer rituals to talk, connect with them, invite them.And it's like people, and for me with my western trained scientific mind, I [00:23:00] couldn't understand this initially and then it started to open up once I kind of allowed myself to breathe with it opened up a whole different set of possibilities also in engagement to the place where the ancestors were welcoming me. As well to this place. So, that has been beautiful. And another thing that happened was I met, again, a lot of traditional healers. So 25 years ago when I was meeting them was a huge amount of skepticism. My mother's a doctor in the U. S. and she doesn't trust anything Ayurvedic or folk medicines or anything.So when I met them, I was skeptical, but as I spent time with them, and started seeing that they're, they actually have some very deep power. And when I asked them, you know, how did you learn all of this stuff? Because you think of this plant with this, you know, the bark of this and the, you have to boil that with the roots of this and mix it with this.I'm like, so many combinations and permutations, right? And I'm like, they didn't have supercomputers. [00:24:00] So I asked them, how did you guys learn this? And they said, what do you think? And I very proudly used to say trial and error, you know, that must be the scientific method. And they would laugh like crazy.And I'm like, what, what was it like that? That's so primitive trial and error. It's so primitive. I'm like, what? And they would, I said, how did they do it? They said, Oh, we could, our ancestors could talk to the plants. And so once I kind of started to allow that worldview to permeate me, it started to create a different sense of connection to the place, I think.And so it's been a very beautiful journey to in a sense, one can say rewild myself here. And are those, are those themes incorporated into swarajs, and I don't want to say curriculum, because we all know that's a four letter word for a lot of people, but but in terms of de schooling, in terms of unlearning, in terms of, these kinds of old time [00:25:00] learnings, what does a student maybe encounter at Swaraj?Yeah. So there's no curriculum per se, but we have, you know, a few different elements to it. It's all derived from living together, right? So, one is obviously, we call it learning from the gift of conflict. So as you're living together, there's conflicts that start to emerge all the time.So those conflicts are very beautiful entry points into kind of reflecting, if you, once you move beyond the blame narrative to reflect on yourself, what's triggering you, why do you feel disturbed about it? So very, very powerful opportunities to reflect on oneself. We have also what we call a lot of unlearning challenges.So those are optional, but we've created different challenges because we felt there's a lot of conditioning that people come into. Swaraj with and they're around many different areas, but I would say three of the common ones are around most [00:26:00] common around money unlearning our free fear, anxiety scarcity that's related to the money system.Even our self worth gets tied so much to the money system. So, we have a lot of different experiments around that. The second is around love. Both starting with self love, but then how we understand love, how we relate, notions of jealousy, inferiority, all kinds of things which are tied to love.And the third is then death. Death. And so are so these are places that we explore a bit. We have different experiments where people can, you know, for example, and imagine your death would be an invitation that we would invite people into a process. So there's a lot of unlearning experiments. And then the third is that people actually then have a lot of space to design their own personal programs of what they want to explore.And in that process, because you're living in a community, lots of informal learning is happening. Peer to peer, your friend is doing [00:27:00] something. Maybe you start, like, I'm not interested, but after a month of seeing your friend, or a few months, you start, it's just something starts, you know, entering into your system and you realize, Oh, maybe I do like this or this is interesting.And your friend leaves it. I've seen cases, a friend leaves it and the other person picks it up and you know, takes it forward also. So, all of this kind of cross pollination is happening all the time, which is very beautiful. So those are some of the things that happen in Swaraj. And I think where we would invite this is we are becoming more, I think we've become more and more bold over the years, like with this idea of ritual and the sacred. So, in India, there was a lot of, you know first from the left, a lot of bashing of ritual and sacred as these were Brahmanical tools to suppress and these are superstitious. And these tools are, you know, the Marxist idea that these are to [00:28:00] control the masses.And then also, it was bashed because these are ways to cement a kind of fascist Hindu paradigm which is against minorities and things. So, there was a lot of, lot of stories running in our heads around ritual. And then our own personal experiences that oftentimes meaningless, they become fractured, they become rigid and so what we've tried to do is really reclaim the space of ritual in Swaraj.And part of that is with our ancestors or with the more than human. And so inviting people to look at ritual in a very different way has been very interesting. And sometimes I'm involved in rituals and I'm like, what are you doing? The inner voice says, dude, what are you doing?You know, like, who are you at this? And, you know, so all of that old stuff that we kind of grew up with in terms of the scientific analytical mind, which sees everything that it can't understand as [00:29:00] superstition sometimes reappears in certain ways, but I think it's been part of the journey to really create a space at least to engage with this, and so in Swaraj very much it's, it's there as well, and, and maybe the, the way we explain it is there's a need to go beyond the kind of the rational, there's a, there's limits to the rational, logical fragmented mind of how it can see or what it can make sense of.We often even talk about, you know, the way we're trained to think about the crisis is part of the crisis. So, you know, so this space of entering into kind of a liminal energy, a different frequency together is maybe very powerful. And those can be through many different ways, right? Through music, through dance, through food, through fasting.In India, it's really through silence, you know, so it doesn't always have to be plant medicines, which you find more in Latin America and Africa, but in India, meditation and silence and fasting were and [00:30:00] breathing were really different ways that have been experimented over the centuries for people to enter into a different kind of consciousness together.Well, it sounds like an incredible place and an incredible project. I hope if the winds allow me to travel again in a way that maybe they once did that I'd be able to experience that myself. Yes, we have a long, we Udaipur and Oaxaca. So the chances for those winds appearing are pretty good.Amen. Amen. And speaking of Oaxaca our mutual friend, Yeyo had wanted me to ask you about this formulation of yours and all he wrote was livelihoods as opposed to deadlihoods. Oh yes, a alivelihoods, alivelihoods. We made a distinction because a lot of people are wondering what can I do today [00:31:00] in the world. And so the first thing is to help them see that most of what the university, the conventional university is preparing us for are what I call deadlihoods. The work, whether you're in law or in finance or in psychology or I.T., somehow or other, they're tied to a deadlihoods economy that is extractive, military, violent. So, how can we start to understand how we ourselves are implicated in that kind of economy. And so that's one part of it. But then to also think about, you know, the work that's needed today in the world is what I call alivelihoods. And that starts with, you know, what makes my spirit come alive?Because we've we've heard this, "lots of work is soul sucking." So, what is the work that actually nourishes our soul? And gives us meaning and purpose, you know? Lets us reconnect that, you know meaning, purpose, spirituality is not something you [00:32:00] just do on a Sunday or you do in a class, but it's actually tied to the work you're doing in the world and how do we integrate that?What is the kind of work that is helping my community come alive? That is actually shifting power from global corporations back into communities, which are kind of, what is the work that's building, weaving the bonds of trust? And care, kindness, compassion back into community life. And what is the work that is regenerating our ecosystems?So what I call our real wealth. So how do we compost the money system? And start to regenerate real wealth with it. Our health, our forests, our soils, our waters, which are all over the world are in massive, massive degradation stages right now. And how do we regenerate the social bonds again?The trust networks again, that can give us a sense of security, of care, of belonging, of respect, of [00:33:00] dignity. So that's kind of the loose framework we have for that. And I think one other element is that what is the work that will help us shift the worldviews that we have?So the worldview of the planet is being a dead entity and human beings being the only intelligent beings on this planet and the kind of fear that is driving much of the decision making. How do we start to shift to a different worldview that many indigenous communities had a sense of, much better sense of.So, what is the work that can help us shift the narratives of who we are? Why are we on this earth together? Why are we, you know, perpetuating these ideas of ownership or of borders of you know, so many things that we have kind of internalized, which are fundamental to the modernist project.Is there a way to start to unravel these or shift these? So what is the work that allows us that? So I call all of that, all of that a livelihoods, really, and the invitation is to help [00:34:00] people think about how they can be doing that. And I think the other element in that, which is really important is, how do we move beyond this like individual self help kind of narrative we've been fed. You know, like the problem is in you. You have to fix yourself. Whereas how, how do we shift it more to how do we want to understand the systems and the institutions and how they're operating, but also, you how do we focus more of our care and our energy and our healing around healthy community, rebuilding healthy community, because that's what will give us a different sense of power, a different sense of possibility and things.So that's a little bit about it. There's much more, many layers, but just to give you a sense.Yeah, thank you for that. You know, I'm reminded in this, in this context of deadlihoods and the kind of modern condition and the economies that prevail as a result. There is and has been, especially in the last two centuries, this kind of not only degradation of community, but of course, the dissolution[00:35:00] of community and in the sense of people moving to the big city or other countries for better lives.And sometimes necessarily. So like sometimes it's simply their only option, right? And, this is very, very much evident to me in the work that I do here in Oaxaca. And you know, I had come across this declaration from 2009 in a, a very rural village in the Mixtec region of Oaxaca, where a group of peasant families from different villages alongside their migrant kin or family spoke for days about the consequences of their movements, and at the end of that three day assembly, declared alongside the right to migrate, the right to stay home and the right to not migrate, and so I'm kind of curious what kind of dynamics you've seen in India In terms of that economic impulse to [00:36:00] move, to leave the village, to migrate and maybe what part Swaraj and endeavors like it might play in those dynamics.Yeah. So I think, part of it is you're saying is physically forced displacement due to development projects, massive development projects or war. But a lot of the displacement has been sold to people package as to people that the urban lifestyle or the American lifestyle is the lifestyle and what you're leading is impoverished, is insignificant, is backwards. You know, there's all kinds of ways. And so much of what education role was is to convince us that somehow the urban lifestyle is what is to be aspired for. So a lot of people move because of that. I have my experience with rural people and working with rural people is that a lot of them, they're like, "we're quite happy where we're at. But what happens is when our cousin comes from the city, they bring [00:37:00] fancy phones and motorcycles and money and they show off and that's what really makes us feel really bad." And then we have to, what we've tried to do is to counter that with, you know reminding people of what a shitty life urban life is.Most people are living in slums. Most people are, if you're not, you're living under continuous stress and tension to make ends meet in polluted environments these days and lots of traffic. And so I at least, you know, try to remind people that in their villages, they may not have that many material things but they're the Kings of the village.They have fresh air. They have clean places, good water to drink still. They have good food, fresh food they're eating. So that's been an interesting journey. Sometimes people understand, particularly the older people understand. This is the other thing that schooling played a major role is to try to kill the voices of wisdom.So, like my grandmother or other elders would be [00:38:00] told, "Oh, you're uneducated. What do you know about what is a good life or what is, you know, the way forward? And so those voices still are silenced quite a bit because young people go to school for some years and then they think they are much more knowledgeable about what life is all about or what's important in life.So, I think what's interesting is that what we're saying about the breakdown of what the urban success story was or the urban model, it's becoming more and more clear to people, like they're seeing that so there are people I know who are moving back. Udaipur is a very small city and a lot of people who have been connected with us have decided to stay in Udaipur rather than moving to Delhi or Bombay, which has been the trend.And so I think it's a very important thing to keep looking at. I think if people see if they have a good life in smaller places, a lot of people are ready to come [00:39:00] back. Because the stress, the continuous stress and speed of big city life is I feel is taking a toll on people and also the whole promise is there's jobs and everything.And so you see more and more unemployment also happening in big cities. So, I think there's an interesting question right now in people's minds of what, what to do and where to go.So you know, it very much seems that one of the ways that what I'll call, I guess, well, either modern people or cultural Americans seem impoverished by is in the realm of hospitality. The lack of hospitality towards not only their neighbors at home, but, but abroad among hosts, you know, most people stay in hotels or Airbnbs. Most tourists anyways, they eat at chain restaurants. They're taught a transactional worldview and all exchange tends to end up in a customer service evaluation. And I feel that this is very much what [00:40:00] tourism has done to that part of the culture, that we would otherwise refer to as hospitality.And so I'm curious in your opinion how would you define radical hospitality? And how have you seen it perhaps as an antidote for the industrial hospitality modern people so often encounter. Yeah. I would that's a great question. So I think I've had the experience in being in Rajasthan of many traditions of hospitality and I would even say radical in the sense that all over India we say that " treat our guests like gods." So that's probably as radical as you could get with hospitality, if I treat you like a god, right? And what it means to me is, not to God in the sense of the pedestal of God or somebody remote, but actually God in the sense of this is my way [00:41:00] to find another connection to the divine in all of us, the divine that connects all of us.And so when I am able to receive somebody with that spirit, I'm able to touch into something very deep within myself also. And we have so many traditions here which again, in our work, we're trying to recover and remind people, remember in different ways. I would just share a couple of things around that.So one is like, in the desert, when it gets really hot up to 50 degrees Celsius, probably the most hospitable and sacred thing you can do is offer somebody water. So with the industrial consumer tourism, we have a parallel underground system happening.So you can go to stores and you'll see bottled water, for example, where people are paying and they buy it. But if you kind of look closely, you'll see on almost every corner of the old city where, where [00:42:00] most of the tourists come, there are clay pots, which people fill up every day for which are called piaos.So the tradition was that to offer any passerby, any stranger, water, is one of the highest gifts you can honor with them because it's so hot and so I've seen women fill water and carry it from even very far away to offer it to strangers, which is so humbling and so powerful that people would actually be able to offer this.So you can see these pots, people are sitting there sometimes, sometimes the pots are just filled and left with a glass for people to fill themselves and drink. But this is a very powerful way to remind us that there is a different way to relate both to resources like water and how we see it, which is non commodified.And so my grandmother would never think of charging money for water. If I ever told her, she'd be like, what is wrong with those [00:43:00] people? There must be some real deep sickness in them. "Let's go charge money for water." And so I think that, you know, that's an example of an entry to a different understanding of what is water, what is our relationship with each other and I wouldn't say what is water, almost you could say who is water. That question gets opened up as well through this act.And so the other thing around radical hospitality and I care, I would say there's some traditions that are called guptan here, which is kind of the invisible giving tradition.So a lot of what do you find, hospitality these days, is around showing off or people should know who's serving you and who's giving you. And here, there's another sense of care that is given where nobody knows who is the giver and to try to remove that arrogance of the giver when care is offered.And so it's offered with a deep sense of service, but to try to remove the ego element that I am the giver, I'm the one who's [00:44:00] helping somebody or being hospitable to them in some way. So I think that's also been quite inspiring to me, how to enter into that real space of humility as part of a radical hospitality tradition.And I think that these things do have a very essential role to play in challenging what's happening in the world and, and building different kinds of models and systems, because if care and connection is not part of that I don't know what the, what the new models, what they would stand on.And so these are this has to be the foundation of something that can grow. And every time, you know, if you ask me every few years, it deepens and changes because of experiences here. When I first I heard about it from Gustavo. I was like, "Oh, this is so beautiful." But I had relatively little ideas of how it would actually look every day.I see more and more examples of it in living practice here where I live. So yeah, it gives me a lot of hope that [00:45:00] maybe that's one of the keys to finding our way forward.Well, thank you, Manish, for your time today and this wonderful, wonderful conversation. Before I let you go to sleep and probably tend to family, I'd like to ask, how might our listeners find out more about your work, about Swaraj University, and I know we didn't have time to speak about it, but the Ecoversities project.Yeah, it's been wonderful to, to talk with you, Chris. I do hope that we can welcome you someday to Udaipur as well. The one thing I would say is that Swaraj University is part of this alliance, translocal alliance around the world called Ecoversities, so a network of like 500 plus alternative universities in 50 countries. And the idea [00:46:00] was that, you know, these are, in a sense, kind of part of an underground railroad, if you would say for people who are walking out of the system or trying to figure out how they can live differently on the planet together. And the beautiful thing is that, you know, anyone can declare themselves an ecoversity, their community.And there's a huge diversity of things, ranging from the farmversities and the forestversities and the riverversities to, you know, like deathversities and travelersversities grandmothers' universities and jail universities and all kinds of spaces. So, this is really to reclaim different kinds of knowledge systems and different learning processes that have never been valued by conventional universities.And to maybe start to create a space, as I said, to live together, to reclaim our hands and our hearts and our bodies and [00:47:00] our homes as well as our holistic heads And to try to dream, to dream something together. So we have a website, we have gatherings, I would invite people to, to come and and visit us and connect with different eco overseas around the world.I have a 21 year old daughter. She's been unschooled. She never looked at a textbook or an exam or a classroom really in her life, except, you know, like we took her to see children in a classroom, like you take kids to see animals in the zoo so she could see what it was like for a couple of days.But so, you know, really wanted to create a model, not only, I mean, for myself, for her, for other young people to be able to learn and be in different kinds of communities and experiments around the world. So, we invite you all to help create the new models that the world needs with us.I'll make sure that all of those links and [00:48:00] resources that you mentioned, Manish, are there on the End of Tourism website when the episode launches. And on behalf of our listeners, blessings on your day, your path, your tongue, and thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks, Chris. Thanks for your wonderful work and good luck with the new projects that are emerging in your life.Thank you, Manish. Get full access to ⌘ Chris Christou ⌘ at chrischristou.substack.com/subscribe

The Mixtec of Oaxaca have a long and vibrant history. Their culture is full of legends. Here are 4.

Welcome to the audio digest of this week's issue of The Alabama Baptist and The Baptist Paper. Each episode features news headlines and feature stories read by TAB Media Group staff and volunteers. New episodes are released weekly on Wednesday mornings. Articles of Interest: Couple personally leads about 500 Chinese students and scholars to faith in Christ (4:17) Congregation in Montgomery becomes first known Mixtec Baptist church (8:27) Montgomery pastor catches vision for revitalization, encourages perspective shift (13:12) Visit TAB Media HERE Subscribe on iTunes HERE Visit Reliable Signs HERE

In this fascinating episode of the CanadianSME Small Business Podcast, we dive deep into the intersection of technology, art, and Indigenous empowerment with our distinguished guests, Alejandro Mayoral Banos and Tehatsistahawi (Tsista) Kennedy. Alejandro, a Mixtec and Totonac activist and the visionary behind the Indigenous Friends Association (IFA), has dedicated his career to promoting tech equity and digital sovereignty for Indigenous communities. Tsista Kennedy, an Anishinaabe own-yoh-da-ah-gah artist, brings his vibrant Woodland Style Art to the forefront of the IFA, enhancing its mission with his unique artistic vision. Together, they share their stories, challenges, and triumphs in leveraging technology and art to empower Indigenous Peoples.Key Highlight Points:Alejandro recounts the journey of establishing the Indigenous Friends Association, driven by a passion for creating sustainable career pathways for Indigenous peoples through technology.Tsista shares his path to becoming a self-taught digital illustrator and his role in giving the IFA a distinct visual identity through art that tells powerful stories.Success stories and initiatives from the IFA that have significantly impacted Indigenous youth by fostering technology education and digital literacy.Alejandro discusses the importance of advancing digital sovereignty among Indigenous communities and how the tech community can support this mission.Tsista reflects on how his art serves as a catalyst for community empowerment and the potential of digital platforms to amplify Indigenous voices.We extend our heartfelt gratitude to Alejandro Mayoral Banos and Tehatsistahawi (Tsista) Kennedy for sharing their groundbreaking work with the Indigenous Friends Association. Their commitment to blending technology and art with activism offers a compelling blueprint for how innovation can serve as a tool for cultural preservation and empowerment.This episode stands as a powerful reminder of the importance of supporting Indigenous-led initiatives that aim to bridge the digital divide and promote cultural representation in the tech and art worlds. Alejandro and Tsista's stories underscore the transformative potential of integrating Indigenous knowledge and creativity into our digital and cultural landscapes.Special thanks to our partners, Exclusive Banking partner RBC, Exclusive shipping partner UPS, exclusive accounting software partner Xero, and exclusive E-mail partner Constant Contact for their support.  

Ready to put your culinary curiosity to the test? Brace yourself as we journey through a world where fire and chili are more than just ingredients; they're centuries-old metaphors that have shaped cultural identities. We're joined by our distinguished guest, Victor Valle, the mind behind "The Poetics of Fire: Metaphors of Chili Eating in the Borderlands," to give you a taste of the aesthetics of Mexican cuisine, the metaphors that shape it, and its intriguing genesis.Join us as we go beyond the borderlands and into the heart of Mesoamerican medicine, the doctrine of discovery, chili domestication, and how all of these elements intertwine to create a beautiful and thought-provoking narrative. We peel back layers of history, revealing the transformative power of chili from its humble beginnings in the mountains of Mixtec and Zapotec to its place on your dinner table today. Tune in as we explore the complex relationship between land, culture, and violence and why chili, a simple ingredient, became a symbol of struggle and identity.But that's not all! We also tap into the world of journalism, activism, and immigration, as seen through the eyes of a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. We discuss the role of borders in shaping labor prices, the power of journalism in exposing societal issues, and the lasting impact of the Chicano movement. As we wrap things up, we'll take you behind the scenes of our podcast, providing you with a glimpse of the partnerships that make our conversations possible. So, buckle up for an enlightening journey that redefines how you see culture, cuisine, and chili.Support the showView the transcript and show notes at podcast.doctrineofdiscovery.org. Learn more about the Doctrine of Discovery on our site DoctrineofDiscovery.org.

The Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. has a fake crystal skull. And so does the British Museum in London, as does Paris's Quai Branly Museum. As of 2019, it was estimated there are more than a dozen crystal skulls known to exist. Long considered pre-Columbian relics, they've also inspired theories about the occult, aliens, and psychic abilities. But the reality is, none of it's true. Meet Eugène Boban, the real provenance of crystal skulls.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Attorneys representing people who reported being sexually assaulted during Uber rides are seeking safety improvements from the company, as part of a new consolidated lawsuit. Reporter: Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, KQED Governor Gavin Newsom has signed a bill extending a state law that makes it easier to build affordable housing in cities that have failed to meet state housing goals. Reporter: Guy Marzorati, KQED A bill passed in 2002 created a pilot program that allowed Mexican physicians to practice in disadvantaged communities across California. Now, legislators want to expand the program to more counties and include physicians who speak Mexican indigenous languages such as Mixtec and Zapotec.  Reporter: Esther Quintanilla, KVPR

Fossil fuels and other conventional energy sources release many greenhouse gases that harm the environment. For this reason, there is global talk of the need for a transition towards the use of cleaner energy sources and the development of technologies such as battery storage systems, and other cleaner sources of energy. However, for the creation of these energy sources, so-called “transition minerals” are necessary, the extraction of which increases the danger of new displacements and the dispossession of territories from Indigenous Peoples. The intention of this series is to inform and educate Indigenous Peoples about their right to free, prior and informed consent when it comes to minerals found on our lands and territories! Music "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission. “Whispers”, by Ziibiwan, used with permission. Image Mining in Bolivia Voices Diana Pastor, Maya K'iche', Cultural Survival Galina Angarova, Buryat, Cultural Survival Mariana Kiimi, Na Ñuu Sàvi/Mixtec, Cultural Survival Shaldon Ferris, Khoisan, Cultural Survival Jess Cherofsky, Cultural Survival

Fossil fuels and other conventional energy sources release many greenhouse gases that harm the environment. For this reason, there is global talk of the need for a transition towards the use of cleaner energy sources and the development of technologies such as battery storage systems, and other cleaner sources of energy. However, for the creation of these energy sources, so-called “transition minerals” are necessary, the extraction of which increases the danger of new displacements and the dispossession of territories from Indigenous Peoples. The intention of this series is to inform and educate Indigenous Peoples about their right to free, prior and informed consent when it comes to minerals found on our lands and territories! Music "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission. “Whispers”, by Ziibiwan, used with permission. Image Mining in Bolivia Voices Diana Pastor, Maya K'iche', Cultural Survival Galina Angarova, Buryat, Cultural Survival Mariana Kiimi, Na Ñuu Sàvi/Mixtec, Cultural Survival Shaldon Ferris, Khoisan, Cultural Survival Jess Cherofsky, Cultural Survival

Fossil fuels and other conventional energy sources release many greenhouse gases that harm the environment. For this reason, there is global talk of the need for a transition towards the use of cleaner energy sources and the development of technologies such as battery storage systems, and other cleaner sources of energy. However, for the creation of these energy sources, so-called “transition minerals” are necessary, the extraction of which increases the danger of new displacements and the dispossession of territories from Indigenous Peoples. The intention of this series is to inform and educate Indigenous Peoples about their right to free, prior and informed consent when it comes to minerals found on our lands and territories! Music "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission. “Whispers”, by Ziibiwan, used with permission. Image Mining in Bolivia Voices Diana Pastor, Maya K'iche', Cultural Survival Galina Angarova, Buryat, Cultural Survival Mariana Kiimi, Na Ñuu Sàvi/Mixtec, Cultural Survival Shaldon Ferris, Khoisan, Cultural Survival Jess Cherofsky, Cultural Survival

Fossil fuels and other conventional energy sources release many greenhouse gases that harm the environment. For this reason, there is global talk of the need for a transition towards the use of cleaner energy sources and the development of technologies such as battery storage systems, and other cleaner sources of energy. However, for the creation of these energy sources, so-called “transition minerals” are necessary, the extraction of which increases the danger of new displacements and the dispossession of territories from Indigenous Peoples. The intention of this series is to inform and educate Indigenous Peoples about their right to free, prior and informed consent when it comes to minerals found on our lands and territories! Music "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission. “Whispers”, by Ziibiwan, used with permission. Image Mining in Bolivia Voices Diana Pastor, Maya K'iche', Cultural Survival Galina Angarova, Buryat, Cultural Survival Mariana Kiimi, Na Ñuu Sàvi/Mixtec, Cultural Survival Shaldon Ferris, Khoisan, Cultural Survival Jess Cherofsky, Cultural Survival

Fossil fuels and other conventional energy sources release many greenhouse gases that harm the environment. For this reason, there is global talk of the need for a transition towards the use of cleaner energy sources and the development of technologies such as battery storage systems, and other cleaner sources of energy. However, for the creation of these energy sources, so-called “transition minerals” are necessary, the extraction of which increases the danger of new displacements and the dispossession of territories from Indigenous Peoples. The intention of this series is to inform and educate Indigenous Peoples about their right to free, prior and informed consent when it comes to minerals found on our lands and territories! Music "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission. “Whispers”, by Ziibiwan, used with permission. Image Mining in Bolivia Voices Diana Pastor, Maya K'iche', Cultural Survival Galina Angarova, Buryat, Cultural Survival Mariana Kiimi, Na Ñuu Sàvi/Mixtec, Cultural Survival Shaldon Ferris, Khoisan, Cultural Survival Jess Cherofsky, Cultural Survival

Julia Gaspar l Oaxaca, Mexico This dance is known today is of Mixtec and Spanish origin from the viceregal era; With the dance of the feather it was sought to represent the conquest of the valley of and the Mesoamerican dominions led by Moctezuma at the hands of Hernán Cortés, symbolizing the triumph of Catholicism over the native religions as the Spaniards called them upon their arrival on the continent. In addition to being considered the greatest jewel of Oaxacan traditions, it is called the highest dance in the state of Oaxaca.S See image and read story on Scopio's site. Link: Here --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/scopio/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/scopio/support

An immersive soundscape called ‘Saa Ñu'ú' (Birds Clay) is the result of a project inspired by the Tonindeye codex. It combines Mixtec instruments and landscape sounds. * Watch Jorge Martínez Valderrama's open studio at tinyurl.com/saanuuopenstudio

In this week's episode, Melissa and Desiree interview special guest Duncan Tonatiuh, an award-winning author-illustrator. Duncan is both Mexican and American. He grew up in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico and graduated from Parsons School of Design and Eugene Lang College in New York City. His artwork is inspired by Pre-Columbian art, particularly that of the Mixtec codices. His aim is to create images and stories that honor the past, but that are relevant to people, especially children, nowadays.

One of the powerful results of elevating Latin voices in the U.S. is discovering the artists and storytellers who are crossing traditional boundaries and making new kinds of art for the next generation to learn from.Duncan Tonatiuh is an award-winning author-illustrator. He is both Mexican and American. He grew up in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico and graduated from Parsons School of Design and Eugene Lang College in New York City. His artwork is inspired by Pre-Columbian art, particularly that of the Mixtec codices. His aim is to create images and stories that honor the past, but that are relevant to people, especially children, nowadays. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...What lead Duncan to writing and illustrating books like Pancho Rabbit and the Coyote (2:27)How the unique experiences of crossing the border help to teach empathy (8:41)Why his books help to maintain passion in children (16:28)How his book Separate is Never Equal has helped counter the message of segregation in the Latino community (25:10)Why the book banning movement has affected the reach of his book (29:25)How the structure of the Mexican family impacted migration (35:31)Why migrants participating in American culture helps them to survive (43:27)Connect with DuncanTheir websiteOn TwitterConnect With Peter O. Estévezwww.peteroestevezshow.com Follow on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/PeterOEstevezShow/Follow Peter O. Estevéz Show on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/peteroestevezshow/Follow Peter on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/peteroestevez/

This season explores the Tonindeye codex, one of the few surviving pre-Hispanic pictorial manuscripts, made more than 500 years ago in the Mixtec region in Mexico. In which language is it written? Why is its blue colour so unique? What stories does it tell?  

You're listening to From the Desk of Alicia Kennedy, a food and culture podcast. I'm Alicia Kennedy, a food writer based in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Every week on Wednesdays, I'll be talking to different people in food and culture, about their lives, careers, and how it all fits together and where food comes in.Today, I'm talking to Andrea Hernandez, the oracle behind the newsletter Snaxshot, which explores food and beverage trends with humor, broad insight, and gorgeous graphics. Nothing about the conversation went according to plan. I had to reschedule because of Puerto Rico's archipelago-wide blackout, my usual recording software wasn't loading, my laptop and Andrea's AirPods were dying, and we went totally off the prepared script to discuss the limits of tech that doesn't cross borders, having to be self-motivated as independent workers, adaptogens, commodification of culture, and much more. Alicia: Hi, Andrea. How are you?Andrea: I'm good. I'm actually doing good. [Laughter.] Thanks for asking me, how about you?Alicia: I'm good. I'm good. I know, you've had some power problems lately.Andrea: I was honestly, yesterday, I was like, Oh, God, because yesterday, I woke up with no electricity. And then at night, the power went out too. And I'm like, I don't know if we're gonna be able to do this. I was gonna have to— I don't know if tomorrow will be okay. But thank God, there's been no issues. I don’t wanna jinx myself. [Laughs.]Alicia: Right. Well, yeah, we rescheduled this because there was a blackout in Puerto Rico and then there have also been problems in a lot of other places as well. It's interesting, because someone messaged me in the Pacific Northwest, in Oregon, and was like, “We're having bad weather, I don't know if the power is going to hold.”And I feel like this is something that's underestimated and that's not as discussed, I think, because people in New York and LA don't have these problems right now, you know, and so I did want to talk to you about that, about how do you get your work done, and how do you keep your kind of resolve because also, as independent writers—as I know, of course—we are self-motivated completely with kind of, these unpredictable issues that happen. Andrea: Yeah, it really sucks at times when, at night, because it's like, well, I don't really have anywhere else to go. My phone has been sort of like what I default to, which is, like, so funny that you put yourselves in these positions, like I've literally, like, learned to do like, writing on Substack on my phone, which is like the most tedious thing—I wish they would like improve upon that experience. But I'm also, you know, before my laptop battery died, I will literally use my phone as a hotspot, for whatever, [how long] it can last. But yeah, I think—it's just so funny, because I talk to a lot of people from literally all over the world, people from Sydney and London and all these places. [And] they are always surprised. They're like, Wait, like, you're in Honduras? And I'm like, yeah, and they're just like, so shocked. They can't believe that someone from an unknown hub could be putting out work that's recognized in their places. So I think, to me, it's like, you mentioned something, like the self-motivation. It's so true. I talk to people, constantly, that there's no hack. You need to get the work done. Nobody else is doing it for us; we don't have a team so that we can default to—it's on you. So you have to figure it out, and I think growing up, my parents taught me that sort of resiliency of, you have to figure it out. Like, there's no backup. So, you have to…there's a saying, it's called the “the law of the wittiest,” “la ley del mas vivo” in Spanish, which is like you just have to be streetwise and figure out, Okay, this isn't working, let's try to figure out which angle to work at, whatever. And so I think that's my approach to everything. And I again, we’ve got no power—okay, cool, my phone. Like, there's no, Oh, you know what, let me just, I'll nap and see if something happens. [Laughter.] Especially growing up in countries where you don't have infrastructures to depend on. Like, you can’t depend on your government; you can’t depend on the infrastructures. Even growing up in a politically unstable country has taught me I can't even rely on there being peace. There's gonna be unsettling things that happen and you kind of just have to figure out how to work it out. And also the emotional toll that these things take on you. I think I addressed this last week. I feel like I've internalized these things, but the reality is, it f***s with you. It’s like s**t, you know, I am not really competing, because I don't see myself and I'm like competing with mass mediums, whatever, because I'm like, kind of the antithesis of that. But I'm like, yo, there's so many people with so many resources out and I have to figure out how to,  on top of all the s**t that I have going on, like, Oh, f**k, I don't have like electricity, so does that mean that I get to miss out on publishing this on time or whatever. And I think it's something that's not really talked about because a lot of the main publications or people who get clout or—it's so funny when people send me examples of like, Oh, look at how these people are using Substack and yo, I don't even have the ability to paywall Substack, a lot of people don't even know that: having Stripe is a privilege in itself. And I've been very vocal about how it's frustrating; it does take at times, an emotional toll, but it's not like I can be crying and just sitting down, being like, Oh, look at how unfair life is like no, it's like, you have to work with what you got. So, yeah, I mean, that was a long-winded answer to your question. But yeah.Alicia: And how do you deal with—because I mean, we'll get to obviously, my normal questions and everything—but how do you deal with people probably assuming you do have a team, right? And people assuming that you have all these resources? It's an interesting space to be in, because as you said, you can't even paywall your Substack because of their weird national borders that they maintain—Andrea: Yeah, I don't even get it. I'm like, Why the hell do you tie your platform to just one thing? It feels like excluding the majority of the people. It's a f*****g paradox: You're supposed to be an equalizing career, whatever, but it's not really true. But yeah, it's so crazy, that at the same time validating, I literally had people say, I thought you were a team of 20. Like, I thought you were an actual publication. Like, there's no way that you could be doing all this, like as a one-person team, like, I had people telling me like, I can't believe that—I refuse to believe that, because it's not possible. And the funniest thing that happened to me was at this conference Expo West that I got a free press pass to, and I was going to be a speaker at a panel there. So I was there and I was walking and I remember someone coming up to me like, Oh my god, you work for Snaxshot? What part of Snaxshot do you work at? And I was like, That's so funny. I even joked that I should have brought all these different changes, like clothing changes. And I could have dressed up like different people…When you have a fire lit up under your ass, you have to wear all these different hats because it's your default mode. And I think to me, it's just been extremely validating that you think, like that people think that this is, like the work is so—that I have value and that it’s got that much quality, that people assume that there's more people behind it.But at the same time, I want to highlight just how much respect I have for people who have to do everything themselves because they don't have the resources. And also they have to deal with, on top of being underresourced like that, they have to deal with like f*****g infrastructural problems. To me, those people are like: mad respect. Who gives a s**t, you know, if you're, like, in The New York Times, whatever…like that, to me is like, okay, cool. They are a f*****g corporation, whatever. But like, I'm more about mad respect for the people who have to be doing their work on top of all these other things that serve as obstacles. So I don't know, I feel like I love to tell people like, Yo, if I could do this with the bare minimum, and on top of that, f*****g things like not having electricity, what's stopping you from doing it, dude? Like, seriously, especially Americans—like just f*****g go and do it. And I talked to Gen Z a lot about that, because I'm like, Stop letting people tell you that you have to be struggling and working without pay to get yourself somewhere and that they have to give you permission to make your space in this world. And, I think that I have also been able to prove that as someone who's living outside of a usual hub of where like, you know, media is a thing. And to show people like, I've scratched my way in dude. Yeah, it's possible, so anyways—Alicia: But I love it because you're such a success story for—and like you're saying, there are so many limitations that I think we have to be talking about when we're talking about, to use that construction, these new ways of ‘supposedly’ equalizing the field. Because you know, Substack gives itself a lot of credit. We're on Substack platform; Substack is paying for this podcast to be edited. But, Substack is using a payment processor exclusively that isn't available to everyone.And you know, for me, of course, Substack has been such a great opportunity for me to make my career, basically. But at the same time, you know, I'm aware that because of that, I think more people should have access to that around the world, too, because also considering you're going to be able to make money from currencies that might be valued more highly, for whatever reason, than your local currency. And you'll be able to really like…do something, you know, for yourself in a way that—that's what this should be about. It shouldn't be about the same people in the same places being able to continue to make money.Angela: And I'm not gonna lie, I feel like Substack is lending itself to perpetuating that, more than the other way around. I love your story, I feel like to me, and I keep saying now, I feel like, you were also sort of an inspiration of, whoa, this person is literally breaking through from like, the established sort of ‘circle jerk’ of same things. It's true. And, you know, I feel like I love to be able to see that happening, and that I can see people that I want to sort of emulate sort of the same thing, where it's like, when I start, it's natural. And I remember, I don't want it to be the same, Oh, people are pitching to me. And they think that they can flood in and, you know, whatever. I have actively remained with that sense of like—I don't do sponsorships, I don't do advertising, because I'm like, How do I break this model? And how do I even, if it's hard, how do I test it to keep some sort of—how does it look like community validating a medium? How does it look like when I'm actually able to speak freely, without having some sort of conflict of interest, or whatever, or feeling that I have to censor myself? And I had publications come to me and ask me, like, Why don’t you pitch for us? We're talking like really big ones—I'm not gonna say names. But I've literally been like, after they've talked me through the process of pitching and the editing, by the time that you're done with it, that's not me. You literally trickled away the authenticity from me. So it's not valuable to me, and I have had some sort of—I don't know, for some reason, the younger generation, really loves to read Snaxshot. And I have literally 17-year-olds, coming to me, and college students, whatever. And I have had publications tell me, we want to bring you in, and we want you to pitch stories, whatever, because we want to see if we can draw that younger audience. And I'm like, Yo, you can't buy that s**t; it has to be like an authentic thing. And if you can't, if you have to continuously be extracting that and like, how do I keep getting more from you, without giving in return? You're not gonna make it with this new generation, because this new generation is all about more of, Let's level here. Yeah, you know, we call the b******t—Yeah, it's been very interesting to see how Substack emerged as a creator thing, but no hate, no disrespect. But all the people I mean, I subscribe to the emails and all the stuff that I get, it's like—this person was a New York Times food reporter and now it's like, Oh, the food coverage, whatever, this person is coming from, then it's the same people who already had the platforms in the first place. So you know, Substack, obviously, I'm on that platform. Because, you know, it's easy and convenient for me, unfortunately, you know, obviously I had to find loopholes around trying to find ways to monetize it. But yeah, I feel like I would love to see more people, more success stories from people who weren't already in this industry in the first place.Alicia: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, and it's really interesting to me how self-perpetuating those things are, and like you're saying, maybe we're gonna see a change in that from the younger generation. You know, what are you—because I love that you're very in tune with what people want, obviously, that's your whole job. And also seeing these patterns and these trends in a way that isn't tacky. Like that isn't like, it's not like these, you know, press releases I get where it's like, This is gonna be the flavor of the year because McCormick says so, but you really have your finger on the pulse in a real way. And what are you seeing? Are you seeing that, you're saying this—that people are getting back into maybe wanting to see that kind of homegrown authentic, maybe weird—And I was thinking about this because I was reading an interview with Hilton Als, the writer from The New Yorker, on Dirt, which is another great newsletter, and it was about his Instagram and how it's like very old school in that he'd kind of just post whatever—he doesn't think about the algorithm. He posts kind of any image he wants to, long caption, short captions, not thinking of it. And he said, you know, the culture was different at a different time. And when I was growing up, you know, I read magazines to find out about things I didn’t know yet. And I feel like now, a lot of the cultural tide and the coverage has turned to be about telling people what they already know. And like, you can't write about things that are an unknown quantity. And so how do you approach this?Andrea: Oh my god. You hit it like—this—just like, yes. Because I had this on my mind because Taylor Lorenz, I also love the way that she basically made her own beat. She wrote about that, she's like, Journalism should not be about telling people what they already know. It should be about the stories that don't want to get—like that people don't want you to know. And I was like, That's it, dude! Because I literally [wrote] about this. I'm like, Why are we regurgitating the same s**t? I think that's why the appeal of it: well, no one's saying this and I appreciate the ability to be able to do so because it is important. So one of the latest issues that I wrote was on how I believe that Expo West and all these fancy food conferences are actually a way of gatekeeping diverse founders, because they're so expensive. And you know, the majority of them, who the fuckcan afford $20,000 for the starting cost of a booth, you know? And so I wrote about this, and I just really let it out. And I was like, Dude, no one goes there to see—you cannot go predict what's coming up next there. Why? Because it's f*****g gatekeeping to like, people who already have the means for it. And I wrote about, and the title’s called, “This Could Be a Future,” because I'm like, our future should look diverse. Not the same f*****g people who just—the ex-CMO of Pepsi went and launched a f*****g snackbar, like, that's not the future. It shouldn't be. And so you know, I wrote this really just heartfelt, like my experiences. And I was like, no disrespect, you know, but to be honest, it felt like these conferences are losing the relevancy, whatever, especially amongst the younger generation. And one of the reasons why is because they don't see themselves reflected and represented, which makes sense. So, I wrote about that and every other Medium piece was “Five Trends That I Saw At Expo West!” [Laughter] Dude like, by the time that people can afford $20,000 worth of a booth, these companies already have venture money; they're already in Whole Foods—it's not a f*****g trend. You can't go and say… So I just got kind of pissed. That's just you regurgitating the f*****g obvious. And so like, yeah, I 100 percent think that you hit the nail on the head right now. It's like, we lost the ability, one, to think, the ability to say so like, these publications can't say s**t because they're so constricted with ad money, whatever. I do love how Dirt has used that web3 dynamic to improve upon, how do you go about financially sustaining media? Like, you know, a media that's different. That's not archaic [or] tied to engagement and views or whatever. So yeah, I think what you said is so f*****g important. I'm glad we brought this up. Because yeah…Alicia: Well, I mean, to get to Web3, too, because I wanted to talk to you about this, because of course, people are very, you know, make a mocker. I make fun of it too and I'm skeptical, of course. But there are people like Daisy Alioto from Dirt, like you, who are talking about Web3 in positive terms. And I'm like, I think I'm definitely missing something if smart people are saying this… But I want to hear from you about what's going on, basically.Andrea: Yeah, no, no, no, no. Skepticism is necessary in all things, by the way.  And when I wrote the piece about it, I was like, We do need necessary—it does have its necessary criticism. It does. 100 percent. I'm not your crypto bro about to shill you into some f*****g like, you know, like scam or whatever. So, literally, the thing is that you have to see this less about the hype. Web3 is not McDonald's putting outa f*****g NFT of their McRib. Like, who the f**k wants that, right? To me, Web3 is about, how does this dynamic improve upon, or even better, disrupt whatever it's trying to be used for? I'll give you—I guess I will say the rise of the DAO activism, like, why don't we take community and add economics into it in a way that's more transparent? And it's not tied to red tape, right? Because like, you go and try to open a bank account, like all the stuff that you have to give, whatever. So, to me that's one reason why this type of organization makes sense in the first place, right? Then second, I've seen people use this application in a way that's trying to go against, you know, the structures in place that continue to prey upon—I'll give you an example: Farmers Market-verse. At first your like, what the f**k is this? There's like farmers and whatever and you think like, just some sort of like, you know, another JPEG scam, whatever. But the reality is, like the thesis behind this, it's a bunch of small farmers who said, We'll use the capital we make from these NFTs that we're selling, and we have our own treasury, and they take some to mitigate the cost of running the organization. And the main idea behind it is to put a battle against ‘big agriculture.’ And so they are using that dynamic to empower themselves economic-wise. And, you know, really be more of like: Okay, we are aware of the collective and how do we help each other out? And it's not also tied to anything that's local.And so, you know, I spent some time in their Discord. And I really loved it, because you can tell that there's that intentionality of like, help thy neighbor, right? They have, they choose, they do voting, and they choose, I think, each month or I don't know what the dynamic is now, but they choose, who do we help? Like, whose farm needs help? Like what organizations that are really trying to help our mission, can we benefit… It's like, literally an online farmers’ market and like, they post about what they're doing or whatever. And to me when I see that I'm like, that's the beauty of it. Austin Robey, one of the founders of Dinner DAO, which is like this dinner club that's Web3, he wrote about how DAOs and co-ops have similarities and what they can learn from each other, it's an incredible piece—highly recommend it. And then even Dinner DAO, which is a supper club that meets like this sort of dynamic. I love the idea of like, dude, we’re taking something that's very simple, but we're making it, we're improving upon it. So like, they're launching their second season soon. And what it entails is that you buy sort of the membership as an NFT. And it comes with, you get assigned a table, a group of people, and you get an allocated amount, and you can use that in however you want. Whether your group wants to use it all in one f*****g fancy restaurant, or you guys want to have like multiple meetups, whatever—that's pretty cool. You know, and you don't have to be worrying about whose card is going to be used, whatever—it's more about, like we’re doing this, and we're exploring the concept of what it looks like to use this dynamic to have an experience of community around food. There's another example, Friends with Benefits, which is the most well-known crypto-community that has been profiled now by The New York Times and all these other publications—and I'm part of it. I was graciously donated a membership, because I obviously could not afford it. But the community came together, a couple of people from the community came together and they donated whatever was needed for me to be part of it, which I greatly appreciate. And I have experienced their events and stuff and so, firsthand. And the latest proposal that they have as a collective is to buy and restore this like Chinatown, LA restaurant, and they want to convert it to a venue, whatever, but they want to use all the funds, or the stuff that they gained from that, not just to use within the community, but to properly restore something that's a historical place in downtown LA. You know, like those kinds of things, to me, they serve as a—look what we can do without all the red tape of having to subscribe as an organization, and everything can be traceable through the blockchain, which is basically receipts that can be viewed by everybody that has access to the internet. And, you know, there's another one, a guy that works in the spirits industry in LA, who's coming up with a project that is going to help bartenders in general to be able to, like pursue their passion and whatever else or you know, they're wanting to develop, and it's going to be sort of its own fun, but it's going to be tied to a physical spirits bottle. I 100 percent agree that there's a lot of skeptics, like the fact that you are spending half a million dollars on a f*****g JPEG. Well, that's ridiculous. I'm more bullish on the things that are really being disrupted, that are giving me a better hope of—we don't have to be like, strapped again to Stripe; Web3, crypto helps that in so many more ways, where it's like, the regulation isn't as tight. So like, look at Dirt, they're exploring how to make a medium that is not dependent on advertising revenue, whatever, that's more in pro of whatever the community is wanting. Do I believe it's gonna be a solution to everything? No, but I think it's an improvement and an exploration of what does it look like when we don't subscribe to archaic structures? Right, that we know that they're decaying, right? And people think for example that Twitter is the one to blame for a horrible attention span or fear-mongering, whatever. Yeah, well, I studied communications; I can tell you the history of 24/7 news, like it was not about keeping people informed. It was about, How do we share more f*****g ads on TV? Oh, we keep the news going the entire f*****g day. I feel like we just have to be a lot more like, conscientious, it's not going to be like one day everything solved. But I am very in pro ‘if this is giving me the ability to see what lies beyond having to succumb to these structures that are so predatory, then f**k it, dude,’ what else are you gonna—what else can we do? You know, like—Alicia: Exactly, and that makes sense. And it's interesting, because I think this is a way I'm starting to think about things a little differently, too. Where it's like, just because the narrative tends to be that one thing is going to solve every problem that we have as a society doesn't mean that we have to think of it that way. You know, because I was on a panel last week with like, a grass-fed beef rancher, and lab meat—Isha Datar from New Harvest and other folks who are working, you know, to try and fix the way people eat meat in the United States, basically. And I, you know, I came away from it, thinking, you know, Why am I always taking such a hard line about these things, when maybe what we do need is to just stop pretending there's a silver bullet for climate change, and for our relationship to meat and say, let's use a combination of approaches to solve for this problem? It’s like, let's not just, you know, we don't have to say lab meat is the answer, because it's not because of scale, because of still using energy that's fossil fuel intensive, because of—maybe people aren't going to want to eat it, for all sorts of reasons. And also there’s still ethical issues in terms of how they even take cells from the animals. Like, they have to kill calves. And so and then, maybe, you know, protein cakes, like Impossible Burger and Beyond Meatm are part of a solution, and those SIMULATE chicken nuggets—maybe they're part of a solution, and maybe grass-fed beef as part of a solution. And maybe, you know, heritage pork and all of these things are part of a solution. Maybe these all work together to get us to a place where we stop killing the planet. And you know, and stop overconsuming.Andrea: I think it's very important, too, to say, why are we also punishing sustainable cultures, and cultures who have historically worked with using every ingredient in the animal, you know, even kosher, which is like, supposedly like a more ethical way of making sure the animal doesn't suffer. And like, why are we casting upon these people, and in the same way…God, you're gonna love this. There's a newsletter called Goula, which is a lot of Latin American writers that are chefs and all these different backgrounds in the food industry. And I read an issue where this guy who's a chef, is talking about his experience in Oaxaca, the mushroom festival. And why I'm bringing this up is because he talks about how the Mixtec is the culture there, they don't call it hallucinogenic. They're like, this does not cause hallucinogens. We don't believe that, we believe that it amplifies your vision. So he talks about like, how are we so [hypocritical] with drugs, we don't even understand, like, the relationship to psychedelics in the Mixtec culture, Aztec culture, stems I don’t know, like thousands of years. It's literally in the Códices, like the Aztec Códices, which is basically hieroglyphics or the codes that they used to use—he talks about that we are trying to frame something that we don't understand, with lack of understanding. And so I think that the same happens with meat, right? Where it's like, I'm blaming, and I'm punishing a collective when it's—the reality is the meat industry complex is, what, like four or five businesses? So it's like, the same way that the whole carbon footprint came about as an advertising campaign for Procter & Gamble, to sort of put the blame on the consumer and not really focus on the negative externalities of this f*****g corporation that owns what, hundreds, if not thousands of brands that contribute to that, that I think that dynamic, we don't explore it as much. And I try to bring attention to it just from my background, working in marketing, and having gone to school to study that and study communications and the history of it, and no one's talking about specifically in the U.S., like, how the deregulation of children's advertising in the mid—’80s affected millennials and our overconsumption culture. No one talks about these things as the core root. It's more about like, I have to adapt and you know, buy expensive s**t because I'm bettering the planet. And it’s like inaccessible to the majority of people, you know? Yeah, you're going to Erewhon and you're feeling good about yourself, but who the hell can f*****g buy like a $25 shake, right? Or like now you're going to like McDonald's and you're getting yourself like an Impossible, or Beyond Meat—what, so like, it's vegan, and it's ethical because it’s no animal harmed, but what about the exploitation of the worker? Like, does that make you feel good? Or is that like, do you know?So I feel like you said, there is no like black or white, it's very much about a gray area. And I think that we're, we're losing each other and fighting in trenches, when we should be bridging further and further toward the solution. And so I think what you said is 100%, where it's at, it's like, there's no one solution for it. Parts of the solution—yes. But at the same time, I would want for us to start sort of peeling back the b******t of these narratives. You know, like, what does it mean that Amazon's plant-based patty— it’s not going to save the world like, yeah, it also has to be like, very much like skeptical that that's going to be what solves our problem. Alicia: Yeah. No, absolutely. Well, to start the interview the way I usually do, now that we've talked for like half an hour, but [Laughs] can you tell me about where you grew up and what you ate? Andrea: Oh, yeah, well, I mean, I'm still in my city, Santa Pedro Sula, Honduras. I grew up eating beans, rice, plantains—lots of plantains, the sweet kind, more than the other though. As I grew older, I did [get] a knack more for the salty plantains. But I grew up very close to my grandmother, very close to her and seeing her cook. One of my favorite memories is watching her pick out the beans, big plants, and the little rocks. She would go to the market every Saturday, she would bring us crabs, fishes and stuff; she’d make crab soup. She's from Nicaragua originally, but she came after the Civil War. And she had a lot of connection with food; she was the sole provider. She was not really divorced, but she ended up after the war, like her husband left them, her and my mom and my aunt. And so they were in Honduras; she was a sole provider, so she was basically the one who did everything, so she did all the meals, etc. And she was living with us when I was growing up and I loved just sitting—it was a kind of a meditative thing. Like you're just sitting there, you're picking apart a little bean. And also undoing the kernels of the corn. And I love when she would bring the corn becauseI didn't know this but maize  has different colors and stuff like that. I was like, Wow, you look at all the movies and stuff, especially when you're growing up with only American channels because we don't even have, you know, TV shows of our own, and you grew up with the yellow one. Like you see that everywhere now we'd just be like, Wow, the corn is white and purple? And like all these different weird mashes of color. And so yeah, you're picking up these little things. And also, she would bring them to a molino—I don't know how to say it, like a mill? And I was like, That's so f*****g cool. Like, it would come in a powder. And she would also do, I don't know what it's called, but it's also like a corn-based drink, but the powder is made to use the drink. But she, yeah, so I grew up seeing the way that she prepared food and just taking a lot of like, even how to make the tortillas and stuff like that, and a lot of her, even remedies that she grew up with, for cramps, or tummy aches, whatever. Like, I don't know, I was very much, grew up close to that. So that's sort of how I came to be very interested in doing my own things. And, you know, I grew up with a lot of seafood for sure. Because my city is 30 minutes from the coast. We would go to the beach and have fish and—to me, it was never, because you're growing up and I would go to the market, too, on Sundays with my mom and she would be like, go, and I was the shyest person, she’d be like, here's money, go barter with the tortilla lady and make sure she doesn't charge us more than that. Because, you know, we didn't grow up rich; we were four kids. My mom was like, you know, always very much trying to save costs, whatever. And I love that she taught me how to barter when I was a kid. And I think that's one of the skills that I appreciate so much from her, but I remember going to the market and seeing these kids do tortillas, whatever, and then stuffing them here and there's people with half an avocado open, like trying to show you all their vegetables and fruits and stuff. And like all the fruits are laid out on newspapers, whatever, that's still here, that's still happening—No, I don’t know. I just feel like I was very lucky, in a sense, even though, you know, I grew up with a lot of different things in Honduras that weren't that nice, to be able to experience that sort of connection to the people who were making the food that I'm ingesting, that I'm putting into my body. And it's such a sacred experience that we don't really think about, that's literally the pillar of our lives—putting food in our bodies, without that process...And I think that to me, when I think about whether or not I subscribe to the idea of veganism—I get it, I understand it. It's horrible. It's horrific. The fact that you know that the mass industrial complex of this has created this monstrosity, but at the same time, when I grew up, it was more about, you knew the person that was giving you the crabs, and it was much more sustainable. But that was obviously when I was growing up. Yeah, I feel like I grew up very much experiencing sort of an array of flavors, obviously very acidic. Citric has always been where I gravitate towards. Spice. And yeah, I'm very thankful that I was able to come up with that, because I was never a sweets person. I was like, Oh, my God, we have a word for—it’s called empalagado, when you had too much sweet and you just feel super sick, you're like, Ah, I can't. And so I don't know. I think I was born in the perfect place. I have a theory that I used to be an iguana in a past life, because I thrive on sunlight. I have to have sun.And so I think I grew up where I was meant to, and it also gave me a really rounded experience of what it's like to live in two worlds, especially as a bilingual person, where it's like, one language gives you an access to a different dimension, you know. It's like, whoa, as a writer—I don’t consider myself a writer, I consider myself a professional s**t-poster—but that my voice has a lot more, hits a lot more in this language than, you know, if I were to speak in Spanish. Unfortunately, that's just the dynamic that we live in. And I have been [advocating] about, like, why do we do this in the first place as a person living in a country where this language isn't needed? But you know, it gives you access to see, and I think that it has given me—this is tying it back to Snaxshot, why I have been able to pick up on stuff. Whereas U.S. people are very myopic as in, we're centric to ourselves beyond anything else, that I'm like, Well, this is all happening in all these different places. Let's see, you know, how, if this is playing out in the UK, is this playing out in Australia, is this playing out in Latin [America]? And then that's sort of how that seer, oracle, premonition kind of thing. Well, it's just paying attention to what's happening around you. Yeah, so I guess, you know, I grew up with an array of, I guess, Latin American…Mesoamerican, I would say, inspired flavors. Coastal, too. Alicia: And so how did you get so into snacks? Where did the—where did the snacks start to come in for you?Andrea: Yeah, I would say that, since I do have friends that live in the U.S., I had been seeing—and again, because I can see two different sides of it. I’m like, Wait, like, why is ginger being made into this all-in salve—you know that you can just boil the ginger, right? All you have to do is like, peel it and put it in water and heat it up.And so yeah, so I feel like I don't know. I feel like after seeing things like “Meditiation in a Can” and stuff like that, I just—because of my background, again, marketing, knowing what goes behind building brands, that I was just like, it feels like we're going through something and I want to know where it's coming from. But at the same time, I wanted to see if it's happening somewhere else. And so I don't know, it just [became] all about—I remember doing Twitter threads at first and people would be like, Whoa, I would love to learn more about this. And s**t, I may have landed on something. But yeah, it was more about getting sort of like, am I being catfished by brands? And if so, who was writing about this? And so, I don't know, it started off of that. And it felt like we entered sort of like a parody state, where it's like, I have to label water again, like thank you for letting me know I'm not sucking on bone broth. F*****g marketing, right? I don't know, I just wanted to use sort of that parody. And that's where the persona the SnaxBoi comes to be, which is the Erewhon meets F**k Boy persona, where it's like, you know, that person that spends too much time in the beverage aisle, spending so much money deciding between CBD and Nootropic, or THC adaptogens, like, Bro, like, you should be doing the same, but in therapy. [Laughs.] These are not solutions for your problems... But so yeah, I just wanted to talk about what I was seeing and, you know, making space for us to talk about, what is an adaptogen? You know, what's the idea behind them? Is that a novel thing? Why is it being attributed to f*****g Gwenny ‘Goop’ Paltrow instead of talking about how it’s been used by so many different cultures for centuries and thousands of years. Why is it that we're white-washing all of [these things]? And we're not understanding that we're trying to get back to our roots, that we're doing it in a way where it's the commodification of knowledge that's inherently human and that's been used by so many different cultures across the history of the world. I don't know, it just felt like the conversation was very much skewing towards the ‘Gwenny Goops,’ instead of, let's figure out where this is coming from.Alicia: Yeah, there's so much, and I found this out, because when Eater gave me [an] assignment—I wrote about wellness drinks a couple of years ago, and they gave me this assignment; it wasn't really my idea. But I saw these new drinks, the new adaptogenic drinks as kind of a commodification of these older techniques, like you're saying. We used to love kombucha, and like fire cider and like these other things that anyone can make in their house. And then now we're like, No, you need this specific blend of adaptogens. And then I talked to an herbalist for that. And it's always stuck with me, I talked to an herbalist who is like, You can't willy nilly give people these things. They are powerful, and they will have an effect, but they might not have the right effect. You want to know what you're putting in your body when you're using, you know, herbs that have had real purpose and you want to work with someone who knows what they're doing and to get it to you. And so, I love that you do criticize this kind of vision of the world, but then you also come at it with such love and appreciation too.Andrea: Yeah, because you know what, I like to be bridging that there is a reason and validity behind this. Just because scientists told you that psychedelics were like—you know, because I think about that. I think about that a lot, Why is it—and I wrote about this in my psychedelic issue, I was very skeptical—I was like, I'm skeptical that they're pushing for deregulation while there are big silos, that I call it, like all these corporations now set to gain from the deregulation of psychedelics. So you're telling me that something, not for what, half a century now, you've been telling me that is bad. Now that it's convenient to you guys, where we have Peter Thiel trying to patent like guided trips, like, f**k off dude. Like no. And so to me, it's more about like, Guys, of course, there's validity around adaptogens. But when it's been thrown [around] like a marketing buzzword where it's like adaptogen this, adaptogen that, where I joke that it's not really functional that doesn't come from La Fonction in France then it’s BS, you know, and it's a detriment to the movement in the same way that cannabis has experienced that backlash with the term ‘CBD’ where it's become devoid of meaning. We did the same thing with ‘organic.' I think to me, it's more about like, how do I do this a service and pro, where it's like, I am trying to parse through the BS, but because there is validity. I think that we also have to mention about the appropriation of where this is coming from, like the fact that everybody's making Oaxaca like a f*****g Mezcal Sonoma—nobody's talking about that! Instead, you're seeing the brands be like, Ooh, come stay at this luxury $1,000 new hotel in Oaxaca, whatever. And it’s like, what the f**k, $1,000 a night in f*****g—I'm sorry, what?Seeing like brands be too comfortable using ethnic aesthetics, like, I got blocked by Kendall Jenner. I guess that's my claim to fame, because I called her out. I'm like, is she brownfacing? Why is she wearing braids? Why is she wearing a poncho? Why is she on a f*****g, like, horse through agave fields, you're not fooling me—I know exactly what you're doing. And, you know, playing upon these aesthetics in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable, that it's normalized, right? Like, that's not okay. And I think that there are some people like Yola Jimenez from YOLA Mezcal, who are doing it in ways where it’s like, she's not even having to hone in on like, Mexican aesthetics, that you know—that's where she's from. Instead, she's using this rise and popularity of mezcal to empower women in a region where women get screwed over. There's a lot of femicides that [are happening]—that to me is, that's how you do it. And if someone can do it, the same way that you know, Tony's Chocolate came out and said, like, Ooh, yes, it's only one percentage of child slavery—but it's good because then we can point it out, and it's like, F**k you, dude. Like, there's literally brands right now—there's a brand called Cuna de Piedra in Mexico, based in Monterrey. They work with Indigenous communities that have used the cacao practices that stem thousands of years. Like if they can be like intentional about forcing their s**t. There's another one based in the U.S. called Sonhab—she worked with the Bribri community in Costa Rica. If small brands with lesser resources than you can do it, then f**k you, dude, and your narrative that you’re trying to do some, like sort of service, you know, for the betterment of the world. So, I don't know. I feel like not just to be incendiary, but it's more about, can we just be having a conversation where it's like, I get it—PR dude, that's a huge thing, but just let me critical think like: Did we not make almond milk unsustainable and you're trying to tell them that 100,000 different plant-based brands are gonna be how we get ourselves out of f*****g extinction? I don't know, man, I would be a little skeptical. [Laughs.]Alicia: Well, thank you so much, Andrea, for taking the time today to chat. This has been great.Andrea: Thank you for thinking about me. And yeah, let me know when we can have a part two, I know we kind of like, went all over the place. But you know, it's a good time. You know, I love—I love when it flows. But thank you so much, Alicia. And thank you so much for the work that you do. You're also helping pave the way for people like me to also, you know, hone in on their own space. So, I appreciate you so much for that.  Alicia: Aw, thank you. Thanks so much to everyone for listening to this week's edition of From the Desk of Alicia Kennedy. Read more at www.aliciakennedy.news or follow me on Instagram, @aliciadkennedy, or on Twitter at @aliciakennedy. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.aliciakennedy.news/subscribe

"It's all about saying things al chile!" When it comes to Latinx musicians, there are few who are as talented and versatile as Lila Downs. From street-style rancheras to harmonizing ballads, Lila exemplifies the mastery of an artist who values storytelling above all else. Her work is infused with emotion and passion, drawing inspiration from her Mixtec roots and traditional mariachi music. But her style is far from conventional; she melds multiple genres into her compositions, blending styles and sounds in a way that feels effortlessly natural. Click play and listen to songs from her latest release, Al Chile, infused with the infectious rhythms of cumbia and themes of pleasure and pain, suffering and redemption, through the metaphor of Mexico's ubiquitous chili pepper. Not only is Lila's music deeply personal, but she also uses it as a political tool, drawing attention to important issues such as gender equality, immigration reform, and indigenous rights. She has been recognized with numerous awards throughout her career and was recently named one of Time Magazine's top 100 Latina powerhouses of 2021. Whether you are a longtime fan of Lila's music or have yet to experience her firsthand, tune in to listen to our chat with Lila Downs on topics ranging from her view on the overturn of abortion rights to not being Mexican enough. Global Ginga presenter, Carla Leininger, also spoke about the upcoming performance at University of California at Berkeley for Mother's Day Weekend, 2022 Don't miss out on this amazing chance to see one of the most influential figures right in our backyard! Buy your tickets at https://calperformances.org/events/2021-22/pop/lila-downs-2122/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/global-ginga/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/global-ginga/support

Jason gives you a quick overview of Aztec Warrior Culture .Read the essay here: https://historywiththeszilagyis.org/hwts035 Find us on Twitter:The Network: @UFPEarth. The Show: @SzilagyiHistory.Chrissie: @TheGoddessLivia. Jason: @JasonDarkElf.Join us in the Federation Council Chambers on Facebook. Send topic suggestions via Twitter or to hwts@ufp.earth. Support our historical work here: patreon.com/historywiththeszilagyisSuggested Reading Hernan Cortes. Letters from Mexico.Bernal Diaz de Castile. History of the Conquest of Mexico.James Lockhart. We People Here: Nahautl Accounts of the Conquest of Mexico.John Pohl. Aztec, Mixtec, and Zapotec Armies.John Pohl. Aztec Warriors: 1325-1521 AD.Si Sheppard. Tenochtitlan 1519-1521: Clash of Civilizations.Michael Wood. Conquistadors.United Federation of Podcasts is brought to you by our listeners. Special thanks to these patrons on Patreon whose generous contributions help to produce this podcast and the many others on our network! Vera BibleJosh BrewingtonTim CooperChrissie De Clerck-SzilagyiTom ElliotVictor GamboaAlexander GatesThad HaitJim McMahonAnn MarieGreg MolumbyJoe MignoneCasey PettittJustin OserMahendran RadhakrishnanFit RogersKevin ScharfTom Van ScotterJim StoffelDavid Willett You can join this illustrious list by becoming a patron here: https://www.patreon.com/ufpearth

Dating back more than 800 years, chocolate is deeply woven into the Indigenous history of Oaxaca, Mexico. TED Fellow Germán Santillán talks about his work reviving the Mixtec technique used to prepare this ancient delicacy by training a new generation of local farmers -- helping create economic opportunity and preserve a delicious legacy at the same time.

Dating back more than 800 years, chocolate is deeply woven into the Indigenous history of Oaxaca, Mexico. TED Fellow Germán Santillán talks about his work reviving the Mixtec technique used to prepare this ancient delicacy by training a new generation of local farmers -- helping create economic opportunity and preserve a delicious legacy at the same time.

Dating back more than 800 years, chocolate is deeply woven into the Indigenous history of Oaxaca, Mexico. TED Fellow Germán Santillán talks about his work reviving the Mixtec technique used to prepare this ancient delicacy by training a new generation of local farmers -- helping create economic opportunity and preserve a delicious legacy at the same time.

Dating back more than 800 years, chocolate is deeply woven into the Indigenous history of Oaxaca, Mexico. TED Fellow Germán Santillán talks about his work reviving the Mixtec technique used to prepare this ancient delicacy by training a new generation of local farmers -- helping create economic opportunity and preserve a delicious legacy at the same time.

Speaker: Freddy Saenz Music: What a Friend, Great Things, How Great Thou Art, There is a Name, How He Loves

Speaker: Freddy Saenz Music: What a Friend, Great Things, How Great Thou Art, There is a Name, How He Loves

The name "Mixteco" is a Nahuatl exonym, from mixtecatl, from mixtli [miʃ.t͡ɬi] ("cloud") + -catl [kat͡ɬ] ("inhabitant of place of"). Speakers of Mixtec use an expression (which varies by dialect) to refer to their own language, and this expression generally means "sound" or "word of the rain": dzaha dzavui in Classical Mixtec; or "word of the people of the rain", dzaha Ñudzahui (Dzaha Ñudzavui) in Classical Mixtec. The traditional range of the Mixtec languages is the region known as La Mixteca, which is shared by the states of Oaxaca, Puebla and Guerrero. Because of migration from this region, mostly as a result of extreme poverty, the Mixtec languages have expanded to Mexico's main urban areas, particularly the State of México and the Federal District, to certain agricultural areas such as the San Quintín valley in Baja California and parts of Morelos and Sonora, and into the United States. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/entre-hermanos/support

The traditional range of the Mixtec languages is the region known as La Mixteca, which is shared by the states of Oaxaca, Puebla and Guerrero. Because of migration from this region, mostly as a result of extreme poverty, the Mixtec languages have expanded to Mexico's main urban areas, particularly the State of México and the Federal District, to certain agricultural areas such as the San Quintín valley in Baja California and parts of Morelos and Sonora, and into the United States. In 2012, Natividad Medical Center of Salinas, California had trained medical interpreters bilingual in Mixtec as well as in Spanish;[8] in March 2014, Natividad Medical Foundation launched Indigenous Interpreting+, "a community and medical interpreting business specializing in indigenous languages from Mexico and Central and South America," including Mixtec, Trique, Zapotec, and Chatino.[9][10] --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/entre-hermanos/support

米斯特克人是谁呢？他们是如何在不利的地理环境下进行玉米种植的？他们用什么样的方法记载文本故事呢？在本集中介绍了米斯特克人的居住气候和环境，农耕方法，发展历史，古抄本，语言，以及现代的米斯特克人生活。更多有趣内容等待着你的收听！欢迎大家订阅点赞，并分享给身边喜欢历史和英语学习的朋友们吧！Mixtec king and warlord Eight Deer Jaguar Claw (right) Meeting with Four Jaguar, in a depiction from the pre-Columbian Codex Zouche-Nuttall.

Armando Celestino walks between rows of grapevines in a Madera County vineyard. He’s handing out small zip lock bags to farm workers filled with hand sanitizer, masks and information on the COVID-19 vaccine. Celestino works with Centro Binancional, a community organization that assists those who speak, indigenous languages like Mixtec and Zapotec. When Celestino hands a bag to Bernadino Cruz, Cruz stops trimming the vines and turns to speak with him. Celestino asks Cruz a series of questions: his name, his age, what languages he speaks, is work going well? Finally, he asks Cruz if he is interested in getting the vaccine. “Well I think yes because well thank god I haven’t gotten COVID, so yes,” Cruz says. Cruz says it’s his first time being approached about the vaccine so he’s not sure what the process entails. Celestino says many farm workers don’t know what to expect. “That’s why we also ask if they’re open to attending a meeting where we can have a specialist talk to them and give

In this episode of The Produce Industry Podcast with Patrick Kelly we chat with Alex Baloga, President & CEO of The Pennsylvania Food Merchant Association, Amanda Griffin of United Fresh Produce Association and Kristen Reid of Mixtec Group. We first chat with Amanda and Kristen leading up to January 2021, United Fresh's Re-Fresh Program. This program is going to be 10 individual days with TOP topics for the new year. Kristen talks about the importance of being involved and creating impact as Amanda reviews the Education sessions. Strategic Thinking and Planning for a New Reality Finding Balance: Managing Remote and in-Person Work Environments for Success Managing Food Safety Through Disruption and Crisis Next, we chat with our featured guest Alex Baloga regarding the PFMA, how their association has been thriving through the Pandemic, the PFMA's virtual conference in October and what to expect for 2021. FANCY SPONSORS: Terra Exports: https://terraexports.com, Ag Tools, Inc. : https://www.agtechtools.com, Flavor Wave, LLC.: https://flavorwavefresh.com, United Fresh Produce Association: https://www.unitedfresh.org Weekend Winners: Indianapolis Fruit Company: https://indyfruit.com

The organizational efforts by Indigenous Oaxacan communities in Los Angeles have had a ripple effect in the United States. One of the most visible and long-standing events organized by Indigenous Oaxacans is the Guelagetza. Miriam Lopez and Raul Cortez share their experience being at the precipice of the Oaxacan organizing movement that would change the face of Oaxacalifornia.

A Mixtec Bible translator explains the importance of cultural understanding with Bible translation.

Poet Jose Marti wrote “With the poor people of the earth I want to cast my lot.” 2020 National Heritage Fellow and Founder and Executive Director of Radio Bilingüe Hugo Morales could well write the same. A Mixtec, born in Oaxaca, he came to California with his mother and siblings when he was nine and joined his father working in the fields in the central valley. Growing up in a farm labor camp, Hugo quickly became aware of the dignity and poverty of the workers and of the sustenance provided by their traditional cultures, especially their music. Hugo's musician father would often talk about the pride he had in Mixtec traditions and frequently played with other indigenous musicians for farmworkers' fund-raisers, funerals or dances. Against most odds, Hugo went to Harvard College and Harvard Law School; but, he returned every summer to work in the fields and graduated with a determination to work for farmworkers and give voice to their culture. And so, in 1980, Radio Bilingüe was born. Based on “honest” culture by and for the people, Radio Bilingüe was the first Latino-controlled full-power FM radio station in the San Joaquín Valley. Now, 30 years later, Radio Bilingue is the leading Latino public radio network and content producer for the nation's public broadcasting system with 24 stations and over 75 affiliates. Listen to the podcast to learn about Hugo's and Radio Bilingüe's extraordinary journey.

Poet Jose Marti wrote “With the poor people of the earth I want to cast my lot.” 2020 National Heritage Fellow and Founder and Executive Director of Radio Bilingüe Hugo Morales could well write the same. A Mixtec, born in Oaxaca, he came to California with his mother and siblings when he was nine and joined his father working in the fields in the central valley. Growing up in a farm labor camp, Hugo quickly became aware of the dignity and poverty of the workers and of the sustenance provided by their traditional cultures, especially their music. Hugo’s musician father would often talk about the pride he had in Mixtec traditions and frequently played with other indigenous musicians for farmworkers’ fund-raisers, funerals or dances. Against most odds, Hugo went to Harvard College and Harvard Law School; but, he returned every summer to work in the fields and graduated with a determination to work for farmworkers and give voice to their culture. And so, in 1980, Radio Bilingüe was born. Based on “honest” culture by and for the people, Radio Bilingüe was the first Latino-controlled full-power FM radio station in the San Joaquín Valley. Now, 30 years later, Radio Bilingue is the leading Latino public radio network and content producer for the nation’s public broadcasting system with 24 stations and over 75 affiliates. Listen to the podcast to learn about Hugo’s and Radio Bilingüe’s extraordinary journey.

Poet Jose Marti wrote “With the poor people of the earth I want to cast my lot.” 2020 National Heritage Fellow and Founder and Executive Director of Radio Bilingüe Hugo Morales could well write the same. A Mixtec, born in Oaxaca, he came to California with his mother and siblings when he was nine and joined his father working in the fields in the central valley. Growing up in a farm labor camp, Hugo quickly became aware of the dignity and poverty of the workers and of the sustenance provided by their traditional cultures, especially their music. Hugo’s musician father would often talk about the pride he had in Mixtec traditions and frequently played with other indigenous musicians for farmworkers’ fund-raisers, funerals or dances. Against most odds, Hugo went to Harvard College and Harvard Law School; but, he returned every summer to work in the fields and graduated with a determination to work for farmworkers and give voice to their culture. And so, in 1980, Radio Bilingüe was born. Based on “honest” culture by and for the people, Radio Bilingüe was the first Latino-controlled full-power FM radio station in the San Joaquín Valley. Now, 30 years later, Radio Bilingue is the leading Latino public radio network and content producer for the nation’s public broadcasting system with 24 stations and over 75 affiliates. Listen to the podcast to learn about Hugo’s and Radio Bilingüe’s extraordinary journey.

Poet Jose Marti wrote “With the poor people of the earth I want to cast my lot.” 2020 National Heritage Fellow and Founder and Executive Director of Radio Bilingüe Hugo Morales could well write the same. A Mixtec, born in Oaxaca, he came to California with his mother and siblings when he was nine and joined his father working in the fields in the central valley. Growing up in a farm labor camp, Hugo quickly became aware of the dignity and poverty of the workers and of the sustenance provided by their traditional cultures, especially their music. Hugo’s musician father would often talk about the pride he had in Mixtec traditions and frequently played with other indigenous musicians for farmworkers’ fund-raisers, funerals or dances. Against most odds, Hugo went to Harvard College and Harvard Law School; but, he returned every summer to work in the fields and graduated with a determination to work for farmworkers and give voice to their culture. And so, in 1980, Radio Bilingüe was born. Based on “honest” culture by and for the people, Radio Bilingüe was the first Latino-controlled full-power FM radio station in the San Joaquín Valley. Now, 30 years later, Radio Bilingue is the leading Latino public radio network and content producer for the nation’s public broadcasting system with 24 stations and over 75 affiliates. Listen to the podcast to learn about Hugo’s and Radio Bilingüe’s extraordinary journey.

Welcome back to Conversation on Tap! In this episode, Joel and Jose were joined by Gloria Soto, a Santa Maria councilwoman, to discuss how the city is responding to the Coronavirus. Because of social distancing, this was our fourth episode to be recorded via Skype, so please bear with us as the sound quality wasn't especially at its finest.  As we started the episode, Joel said that he was out of beer, while Jose drank the last of the delicious Negra Modelo in his refrigerator.  For their FRED Talks, Jose talked about why Easter is celebrated on Sundays, and Joel shared a link (IHME) and his frustration that the media isn't comparing the predictions for Coronavirus and the actual numbers. In the main segment, Joel, Jose, and Gloria talked about her work on the City Council to confront the challenge of the Coronavirus in our community. Gloria was born and raised in Santa Maria to parents who immigrated to the United States in 1988. Now, after a year into her first term, she has been leading the fight to keep people in their homes and to keep businesses in their spaces. We also discuss how she has been working to help small businesses in our community and opportunities to make housing more affordable. One of the challenges that she has had to confront is a cultural insensitivity by some in City Hall who don't understand the immigrant or working class people in our city. So, she has made sure to get out Coronavirus information and practices out to Spanish speaking and Mixtec speaking residents. We also take time to thank our field workers and medical staff, who are working to feed our families and bring us healing, respectively. It was quite the discussion with a very charming and intelligent young woman! In the final segment, Joel talked about how he has been listening to Bill Withers' music and playing a game called JetPunk-- and now he knows where Angola is! Jose talked about playing the new Spider-Man game and the new Star Wars: Fallen Order game. That's all for this week, but keep up with the Podcast by following us on Facebook and Instagram.  Cheers!

Enjoy this bonus episode that is brought to you by the Cognate Collective with music from the Mixtec Region and the voices of migrant Mixtec women in Tijuana that share their stories of migration. Our work was featured in their exhibition and we are happy to share with you all!

In this episode you will get to hear from Jake & Dodie Glover who are living and working in Southern Mexico. They have been reaching the Mixtec people and we wonderful conversations about their work and ministry there.They will be with us for our Global Missions Celebration February 19-23, 2020.Please visit www.GlobalMissionsCelebration.com for more information.

Na Syika Nda’vi: Los que andan por tierras lejanas, en una conversacion con Laura Velasco tocamos el tema de los migrantes mixtecos en Baja California y California siguiendo la conversación sobre Oaxacalifornia y los procesos organizativos de las organizaciones migrantes indígenas. En este episodio tocamos temas sobre: migración indígena, trabajadores indígenas, la mujer, identidad y la lucha por la representación propia de los pueblos en ambos lados de la frontera.

Oaxacalifornia is a concept that Oaxacan communities are using to contextualize their stories of migration from Oaxaca, to Baja California and California as well as the political and cultural movements of revindication of who we are as indigenous peoples. Yet, the idea is taking multiple journeys which has created different conversation in various platforms. In this first episode of the second season of Tu’un Dali we are having a conversation of the idea of #Oaxacalifornia, the past, the present and our vision to the future. Join us!

This week on the podcast I am talking to Vera of Cosa Buena a carefully curated, intimate retreat exploring the vibrant culture and traditions of Oaxaca. They offer hands-on ancestral craft workshops as well as the opportunity for attendees to nourish their body, mind, and, spirit in connection with Zapotec and Mixtec communities and lands. Show notes: www.gistyarn.com/episode-82

Ilda Martinez was 3 years old when she arrived at a migrant Head Start center in Plant City, Florida. Her first language was Mixtec, an indigenous dialogue of Oaxaca, Mexico. She learned Spanish and then English in Head Start programs that serve the children of farmworkers. These migrant and seasonal programs are critical resources for families like Ilda’s that move several times a year to harvest crops, from blueberries in North Carolina to strawberries in Florida and asparagus in Michigan. The work is arduous, the weather can be brutal, and housing situations are often meager. Less noted is that farm work requires significant skill and commitment. And these are jobs which American workers have roundly rejected. As National Migrant and Seasonal Head Start Association executive director Cleo Rodriguez explains, without migrant farmworkers, the US agricultural sector would collapse. Ilda's childhood in Head Start led her to the NMSHSA Internship Program, which brings young women and men to Washington for eight weeks each year. They are placed with host families and work in federal agencies and nonprofit organizations, an opportunity that as Ilda describes, is game changing. In fact, Ilda, who was chosen as a Gates Millennium Scholar, completed college, and has returned to DC for graduate studies at George Washington University. As Ilda explains, the characteristic that best defines migrant families is resilience. Listen to Ilda and you cannot miss how well the word describes her as well. And remember her name because Ilda will be an influential voice for social justice well into the future.  

Hoy (Agosto 9) celebramos el día internacional de los pueblos indígenas y que mejor manera de celebrar este día que hacerlo escuchando una conversación entre mujeres indígenas. Celerina Sanchéz es poeta ñuu savi y nos habla sobre su caminar en la poesía y lo que ha logrado hacer. No olvides quedarte hasta el final de este episodio para escuchar algo de su nuevo CD.

© Sqwad, LO'99, Knife Party, FREAK ON, DJ S.K.T, GAWP, Keizer Jelle, Sonny Fodera, Biscits, Sarah Kellar, Fish Scale, DJ Snake, Malaa, Cazztek, Cloverdale, Jauz, i_o, Diplo, Valentino Khan, Dillon Nathaniel, Hooders, Jay Dunham, Mixtec, HROLEX, Martin Ikin, Yolanda Be Cool, Noizu, Marshmello, Bellecour, Martin Garrix, Macklemore, Patrick Stump, Botnek, Travis Scott, Drake, James Hype, Fisher, Steve Aoki, Alok, Thykier, Wuki, Roxanna, Dale Howard, KC Lights, Tube, Berger

In episode 89, Chuck talks over-the-phone with return guest Gabriella Van Leuven about Oaxaca! Oaxaca is a state in southwestern Mexico, and it’s the name of the state’s capital city. Gabriella and her family spent a month in Oaxaca in 2018! Indigenous cultures, the Zapotecs, the Mixtec, and others, have survived better than most others...

In this episode we have a conversation with Claudio Hernandez who identifies as a Na Savi (Mixtec) from San Juan Mixtepec that grew up in Santa Maria, California. He shares his experience as a Queer Na Savi in California’s Central Coast and how his identity was shaped in a predominantly Indigenous agriculture town. There is also an excerpt from the Ñuu Savi poet Celerina Sanchez from the FIOB’s Indigenous literature conference in LA. Along with music by the Institute intercultural Calmécac.

Een op de drie migranten uit Midden-Amerika die naar de Verenigde Staten trekt is inheems en spreekt geen Spaans. Dat zorgt voor problemen in immigratierechtbanken, want wie spreekt er Mixtec, K'iche' of Zapoteeks? Collega Niyireth Koelmans belde met tolk Odilia Romero en vroeg haar met welke problemen deze migranten en de rechtbanken te maken krijgen.

Een op de drie migranten uit Midden-Amerika die naar de Verenigde Staten trekt is inheems en spreekt geen Spaans. Dat zorgt voor problemen in immigratierechtbanken, want wie spreekt er Mixtec, K'iche' of Zapoteeks? Collega Niyireth Koelmans belde met tolk Odilia Romero en vroeg haar met welke problemen deze migranten en de rechtbanken te maken krijgen.

On the first episode of Radio Cachimbona, Yvette interviews Carmine and Eva-- her two #lawtina co-workers with Central American and Mixtec roots. They talk about the emotional heaviness of seeing folks detained who look like them, they vent about the frustration of being overlooked in courtroom settings, and share how their Latina identity motivated them to apply to law school.

A winter of discontent for the Academy Awards will culminate Sunday in an Oscar ceremony that may lack a host but isn't missing intrigue.The run-up to the 91st Academy Awards has been a series of missteps and backtracks by the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences. A new best "popular film" category was in, and then it was out. Kevin Hart was host and then he wasn't. Some categories were removed from the live broadcast, and then they were back.But if the script this Oscar season has been constantly rewritten, the film academy is hoping for a Hollywood ending (and much better ratings than the all-time low viewership last year.) ABC's telecast will begin at 8 p.m. EST following the usual red carpet festivities. The show is available for livestream via ABC in some cities to users with a participating TV provider.After some unlikely Los Angeles weather — to much local fanfare, it snowed in parts of the city on Thursday — sunny skies are expected for red carpet arrivals.Producers Donna Gigliotti and Glenn Weiss have pledged that the show will be speedier this year, even though its initial goal of a three-hour broadcast has faded. Kicking things off will be a performance by Queen, featuring Adam Lambert, to celebrate the best picture-nominee "Bohemian Rhapsody."In the academy's favor is a popular crop of nominees: "Bohemian Rhapsody," ''A Star Is Born" and, most of all, "Black Panther" have all amassed huge sums in ticket sales. Typically, when there are box-office hits (like "Titanic"), more people watch the Oscars.But just how many people have seen one of the top nominees and the film favored to win best picture — Alfonso Cuaron's "Roma" — remains unknown. Netflix has declined to give box-office results or steaming viewership. It remains a nominee unlike any other. Should "Roma" — a black-and-white, Spanish and Mixtec language film about a domestic worker in a Mexican family — win, it will be both the first Netflix movie to win best picture and the first foreign language film to do so.Yet this year's race has been maddeningly unpredictable, with the usual predictive awards being spread across contenders such as Peter Farrelly's "Green Book," a divisive period dramedy about a black pianist (Mahershala Ali) and his white chauffer (Viggo Mortensen); the royal romp "The Favourite; and Ryan Coogler's Marvel sensation "Black Panther," which could become the first superhero film ever to win Hollywood's top award.Other milestones are possible, too. Though Cuaron is favored for best director, a win for Spike Lee ("BlacKkKlansman") would make him the first black filmmaker to ever win the award. Lee has said he likes his film's underdog position as a "dark horse — pun intended." Lee and his fellow screenwriters are also up for best screenplay, which would give the 61-year-old Lee his first competitive Oscar.Many also expect Glenn Close, in her seventh nomination, to finally win one. She's the front-runner for best actress for her performance in "The Wife," a film about the overlooked and under-honored spouse of an acclaimed novelist. Though Lady Gaga began the season as the favorite, Close has won a string of awards leading up to the Oscars, including at Saturday's Independent Spirit Awards where she brought her dog, Pip, along as a date.One virtual lock: Marvel will win its first Oscar. Though "Black Panther," up for six awards and could win in a number of categories, "Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse" is considered the overwhelming favorite for best animated film.Last year's Oscars followed the rise of the #MeToo movement, the launch of the gender equality group Time's Up and the downfall of Harvey Weinstein. A year after best-actress winner Frances McDormand urged the adoption of an "inclusion rider" (a contractual stipulation for the diversity of a film's cast and crew), numerous production companies, stars and one studio (Warner Bros.) have made similar pledges.How much gender equality will be discussed at th...

Much to Mike's disdain - he throws tantrums about Netflix films - we settled in with a KFC to discuss Alfonso Cuarón's Roma, a semi-autobiographical film about the live-in housekeeper to an upper middle class Mexican family. Carefully composed and inflected with a neorealist aesthetic, it's been making countless year-end lists and is being touted as potentially Netflix's first Best Picture nominee at the Academy Awards, so Mike wasn't allowed to say no. The film is remarkable for depicting modern-day indigenous Mexicans, people to whose existence many outside the Americas might not have ever given any thought. Yalitza Aparicio, Roma's star, is a non-professional actor of Mixtec and Triqui origin, and simply her appearance is interesting, let alone the film's use of Mixtec language (Mike gets this name wrong at first but don't hold it against him) and its development of the indigenous population as lower class workers. We consider the use of black-and-white imagery - José questioning what it brings to the film - and the ways in which the sound design and long panning shots attempt to place the viewer within the film's environments. Mike explains a prejudice he holds against "personal" films, and José considers Roma's place alongside Cuarón's previous work, and the melodrama of the birth scene. Mediático, a film and media blog focused on Latin American, Latinx and Iberian media, took an immediate and deep interest in Roma and marshalled eight academics to each write a short essay on the film, and we refer to some of the points raised throughout the podcast. The dossier is well worth reading, will enrich your experience of the film, and can be found here: http://reframe.sussex.ac.uk/mediatico/2018/12/24/introduction-to-the-special-dossier-on-roma-alfonso-cuaron/ (The links to the essays are on the right hand side of the webpage.) In addition, the dossier refers on several occasions to Richard Brody's review of the film in The New Yorker, in which he is critical of the lack of a voice given to the main character and finds the film asks more questions of the world it depicts than it answers. We refer to this, too, and you can read it here: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/theres-a-voice-missing-in-alfonso-cuarons-roma As for us? We find areas of interest, things to both agree and disagree with, in all the articles we read. José was deeply riveted by Roma despite a reservation or two and continues to see Cuarón as a great director. Mike was less interested, admitting that had he been watching the film alone, he would likely have turned it off before the halfway point; an issue with watching things at home that isn't as pressing at the cinema (he wouldn't have walked out of a screening). But that's a tantrum for another day. Recorded on 1st January 2019.

Welcome watchers, to MoviEmotion. In which Jacob learns that Eric is Mario and Jake is Wilhelm and that anyone can drop out of college. Movie music snippets from Roma Teaser Trailer Related media: Jacob - Cambridge by Susanna Kaysen (Book) Jake - Ida (Film) Eric - City of God (Film) Additional Notes: Roma The Haunting of Hill House Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Children of Men Gravity Oklahoma Sooners Shavasana Boyhood Girl, Interrupted Wilhelm Scream Nerdwriter Youtube Paris, je t'aime Contact the podcast: Email moviemotionshow@gmail.com Twitter @moviemotionshow Instagram @moviemotionshow Web moviemotion.simplecast.fm Contact host Jacob Jarecki: Twitter @hexalspace Instagram @hexalspace Youtube JacobJarecki Web hexal.space Contact host Jake Kelly: Web jkelleyvideo.com Doggo Wilson's Instagram Contact host Eric Vue: Also known as Avatar's cabbage man

# AnthroAlert## Episode 07: EducationOriginally aired 7 July 2017 on bullsradio.orgIn this episode, guest Dr. Rebecca A. Campbell discusses the topic of education in an increasingly global climate.Dr. Rebecca A. Campbell is a researcher at the University of Connecticut working on a National Science Foundation project that aims to understand cultural models and social networks and how they relate to success for women and underrepresented minorities in diverse engineering undergraduate degree programs. She is in the process of disseminating her dissertation research, which looked at issues of equity for racial, ethnic, and linguistic groups in elementary schools in the Florida Heartland.As a result of globalization and modern society, people are moving to new places and their acceptance into new societies often engenders struggles. To look at how people are socialized into lifeways of more or less opportunity, I conducted research in the Florida Heartland during 2014-2015. I conducted a school ethnography of two elementary schools in a Florida county I refer to as Central, which has agricultural and religious roots that run deep. The agricultural heart of the county has been and currently draws people to the area for work, which can raise language and citizenship issues. The past incorporation (or lack of) of American Indians, blacks and African Americans, Latinos, and whites is also relevant to opportunities for people from various groups in the area today. Among my major findings are:1. There is rich linguistic diversity in Central County, Florida with 5% of mothers and 5% of fathers of the 1,330 students I surveyed in the schools speaking an indigenous Mexican language (including Mixtec, Zapotec, Bajo, Nahuatl, Trique, Huasteco, and Tarasco). This raises relevant issues of linguistic accessibility, given the Migrant Advocates working in the school system speak Spanish/English. This linguistic diversity is not found in school records, as registrars sometimes re-form the language of students and parents in records by recording “Spanish” when parents report speaking indigenous languages (such as Trique, Nahuatl, Mixtec, or Zapotec).2. Connected to the first point, the schools (and state of Florida) actively erase the racial (American Indian) and linguistic identity of their students through reporting processes and registration practices. For instance, at the middle school I observed, I found that according to school records, 10% of children were American Indian. However, the state reports and the school operates on that notion that around/less than 1% of students are American Indian (because according to the Florida Department of Education and Central Schools, you can only be Latino, not Latino and a member of a racial group).3. Migrant Advocates aid families, especially those who are mixed-status, Mexican American Indians, with access to healthcare by providing them with information on clinics that will accept undocumented people, take cash, and offer reasonable rates. Migrant Advocates also provide information to women suffering from domestic violence and mental health issues and also take children to eye appointments. This is important because current research is lacking on health information for Latino families that are mixed-status and indigenous.4. The schools do a good job at offering some programs that meet needs of minority students and enrich the education of all students; increased program accessibility would ensure that the benefits of these programs are maximized. School and District employees are unaware that there is a significant population of Mexican American Indians in their schools, and therefore miss out on opportunities to better serve their students through more culturally appropriate pedagogy. These realities, coupled with racial, ethnic, and linguistic difference in access to school resources, socialize children into differing futures in the local county. I offer specific applications on how the issues raised in my research can be addressed.## Podcast linkhttps://anthroalert.tumblr.com/post/166543296751/anthroalert-episode-07-education-originally## Video linkhttps://youtu.be/ioBTyUk8WKQ## Album art photo credit:Oliver Thompsonhttps://flic.kr/p/9zVPYBCC License: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/superscheelihttps://flic.kr/p/qMre86CC License: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/## Intro music credit:Awel by stefsax http://ccmixter.org/files/stefsax/7785CC License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

01. Malaa - Diamonds (Original Mix) 02. Platinum Doug - Noise Maker (Original Club Mix) 03. Camila Cabello feat. Young Thug - Havana (PROMI5E Remix) (WCM) 04. Cat Dealers   Galck - Pump It (Original Mix) 05. Clean Bandit feat. Zara Larsson - Symphony (Ducka Shan Remix) 06. Don Diablo feat. Maluca - My Window (Original Mix) 07. Ummet Ozcan feat. Ambush - Bombjack (feat. Ambush) 08. Katy Perry feat. Nicki Minaj - Swish Swish (Valentino Khan Remix) 09. Aylen - ZaZu (Original Mix) 10. Ishimaru & Gustavo Koch - This Bass (Original Mix) 11. Jauz, Route 94, Botnek, Savage Skullz - Feel The Volume Love (Mashup) 12. Ducka Shan - I Want U (Original Mix) 13. Antoine Delvig - Disciples (Extended Mix) 14. Jason Gewalt - Virtual (Original Mix) 15. Miss Tara feat Ashni - Heat (Ducka Shan Remix) 16. Martin Garrix x Brooks vs. David Guetta - Don't Let Me Byte (Mashup) 17. Vion Konger - Dat Beat (Extended Mix) 18. Mixtec x Peace Maker! - Kingpin 19. Mixtec x Peace Maker - Bootyshake 20. Chocolate Puma & Tommie Sunshine - Scrub The Ground ft. DJ Funk (Original Mix) 21. Ducka Shan - By My Side (Original Mix) 22. Toby Green - Lift Me Up (Original Mix) 23. La Fuente - Selecta (Original Mix) 24. Throttle vs. Major Lazer  - Bumaye Behaviour (Mashup) 25. Fox Stevenson & Mesto vs. Avicii - My Feelings For Bruh  (Mashup) 26. Third Dimension - California Dreaming (Max Shylo Remix) 27. Yeah Yeah Yeahs x A-Trak - Heads Will Roll [DiscoTech Remix] 28. Showtek vs Technoboy & Tuneboy - Mellow (Calvo Remix) 29. Sam Feldt x Lush & Simon ft. INNA - Fade Away (Calvo Remix) 30. Cash Cash feat. Conor Maynard - All My Love (Sagan Remix)

PUMP UP! Radioshow by Alex Hart #1390. INTRO1. ID - ID (Original Mix)2. Sick Individuals - Alive (Holl & Rush Extended Remix)3.David Guetta - Light My Body Up (feat. Nicki Minaj & Lil Wayne) [Tujamo Remix]4. Switch Off & JuicyTrax - POW (Original Mix)5. K-Billy - Axel F (Original Mix)6. Mixtec & Peace Maker! - Bootyshake (Original Mix)7. Bingo Players - Beat The Drum (Extended Mix)8. Afrojack & David Guetta feat. Ester Dean - Another Life (Tom and Jame Extended Remix)9. KSHMR & No Mondays - Divination (Extended Mix)10. Axwell _ Ingrosso - More Than You Know (Firebeatz Rework)11. Foxi - I AM (Original Mix)12. Garmiani feat. Julimar Santos - Fogo (Club Mix)13. Tank, Matt Lucker - Rising Up (Original Mix)14. Maddix & LoaX - Showdown (Extended Mix)15. Crystal Lake - Roots (Blasterjaxx Edit)16. Tommy Jayden - Lush (Extended Mix) 17. Tim Mason - Twelve Beats (Extended Mix)Subscribe to my channel now! → www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0NT…Join me on Facebook → www.facebook.com/djalexhart/Subscribe the Alex Hart PUMP UP! RadioShow on Apple Podcasts:  itunes.apple.com/ru/podcast/dj…For more info check:www.promodj.com/djalexhartwww.facebook.com/djalexhartwww.twitter.com/djalexhartwww.soundcloud.com/djalexhartwww.instagram.com/djalexhart

PUMP UP! Radioshow by Alex Hart #1390. INTRO1. ID - ID (Original Mix)2. Sick Individuals - Alive (Holl & Rush Extended Remix)3.David Guetta - Light My Body Up (feat. Nicki Minaj & Lil Wayne) [Tujamo Remix]4. Switch Off & JuicyTrax - POW (Original Mix)5. K-Billy - Axel F (Original Mix)6. Mixtec & Peace Maker! - Bootyshake (Original Mix)7. Bingo Players - Beat The Drum (Extended Mix)8. Afrojack & David Guetta feat. Ester Dean - Another Life (Tom and Jame Extended Remix)9. KSHMR & No Mondays - Divination (Extended Mix)10. Axwell _ Ingrosso - More Than You Know (Firebeatz Rework)11. Foxi - I AM (Original Mix)12. Garmiani feat. Julimar Santos - Fogo (Club Mix)13. Tank, Matt Lucker - Rising Up (Original Mix)14. Maddix & LoaX - Showdown (Extended Mix)15. Crystal Lake - Roots (Blasterjaxx Edit)16. Tommy Jayden - Lush (Extended Mix) 17. Tim Mason - Twelve Beats (Extended Mix)Subscribe to my channel now! → www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0NT…Join me on Facebook → www.facebook.com/djalexhart/Subscribe the Alex Hart PUMP UP! RadioShow on Apple Podcasts:  itunes.apple.com/ru/podcast/dj…For more info check:www.promodj.com/djalexhartwww.facebook.com/djalexhartwww.twitter.com/djalexhartwww.soundcloud.com/djalexhartwww.instagram.com/djalexhart

PUMP UP! Radioshow by Alex Hart #1380. INTRO1. Fox Stevenson - Arigatou (Extended Mix)2. HI-LO & Alok - Alien Technology (Extended Mix)3. MadShow - Prayer (Original Mix)4. Akade & Krimsonn feat. Bibiane Z - Life Goes On (Extended Mix)5. Erick Sparkz - El Carnaval (Original Mix)6. Kapkano - Madman (Original Mix)7. Sunstars - Ritual (Extended Mix)8. Arias - Elephant (Original Mix)9. FootriX - It's Back On (Extended Mix)10. Vicetone - Collide (Extended Mix) (feat. Rosi Golan)11. Galantis  - Hunter (David Puentez VIP Edit)12. Magost - Fearful (Original Mix)13. Mixtec & Peace Maker! - Kingpin (Original Mix)14. Maximals & Bout & Sovth - Fall In Line (ft. Nino Lucarelli) (Extended Mix)15. Firebeatz x Lucas & Steve - Show Me Your Love (Extended Mix)16. Gianluca Vacchi - Viento (Extended Mix)17. Will Sparks, Priyanka Chopra - Young and Free feat. Priyanka Chopra (Extended Mix)Subscribe to my channel now! → www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0NT…Join me on Facebook → www.facebook.com/djalexhart/Subscribe the Alex Hart PUMP UP! RadioShow on Apple Podcasts:  itunes.apple.com/ru/podcast/dj…For more info check:www.promodj.com/djalexhartwww.facebook.com/djalexhartwww.twitter.com/djalexhartwww.soundcloud.com/djalexhartwww.instagram.com/djalexhart

PUMP UP! Radioshow by Alex Hart #1380. INTRO1. Fox Stevenson - Arigatou (Extended Mix)2. HI-LO & Alok - Alien Technology (Extended Mix)3. MadShow - Prayer (Original Mix)4. Akade & Krimsonn feat. Bibiane Z - Life Goes On (Extended Mix)5. Erick Sparkz - El Carnaval (Original Mix)6. Kapkano - Madman (Original Mix)7. Sunstars - Ritual (Extended Mix)8. Arias - Elephant (Original Mix)9. FootriX - It's Back On (Extended Mix)10. Vicetone - Collide (Extended Mix) (feat. Rosi Golan)11. Galantis  - Hunter (David Puentez VIP Edit)12. Magost - Fearful (Original Mix)13. Mixtec & Peace Maker! - Kingpin (Original Mix)14. Maximals & Bout & Sovth - Fall In Line (ft. Nino Lucarelli) (Extended Mix)15. Firebeatz x Lucas & Steve - Show Me Your Love (Extended Mix)16. Gianluca Vacchi - Viento (Extended Mix)17. Will Sparks, Priyanka Chopra - Young and Free feat. Priyanka Chopra (Extended Mix)Subscribe to my channel now! → www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0NT…Join me on Facebook → www.facebook.com/djalexhart/Subscribe the Alex Hart PUMP UP! RadioShow on Apple Podcasts:  itunes.apple.com/ru/podcast/dj…For more info check:www.promodj.com/djalexhartwww.facebook.com/djalexhartwww.twitter.com/djalexhartwww.soundcloud.com/djalexhartwww.instagram.com/djalexhart

In this episode we continue our tour of Ancient Mesoamerica and move into the classical era. This was a time of larger and more technically advanced civilisations than those which had come before. We will look at Teotihuacan, El Tajin, and return to the Zapotec and Mixtec. The second half of the episode will look at the great collapse which affected almost all the peoples of the classical era, and which saw their great cities fall. We will discuss some of the theories that attempt to explain why this happened. Was it climate change? social unrest? or something else?

Mireya Loza's Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza's Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn.

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mireya Loza’s Defiant Braceros How Migrant Workers Fought for Racial, Sexual, and Political Freedom (University of North Carolina Press, 2016) sheds new light on the private lives of migrant men who participated in the Bracero Program (1942-1964), a binational agreement between the United States and Mexico that allowed hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers to enter the U.S. on temporary work permits. While this program and the issue of temporary workers has long been politicized on both sides of the border, Loza argues that the prevailing romanticized image of braceros as a family-oriented, productive, legal workforce has obscured the real, diverse experiences of the workers themselves. Focusing on underexplored aspects of workers lives–such as their transnational union-organizing efforts, the sexual economies of both hetero and queer workers, and the ethno-racial boundaries among Mexican indigenous braceros–Loza reveals how these men defied perceived political, sexual, and racial norms. Basing her work on an archive of more than 800 oral histories from the United States and Mexico, Loza is the first scholar to carefully differentiate between the experiences of mestizo guest workers and the many Mixtec, Zapotec, Purhepecha, and Mayan laborers. In doing so, she captures the myriad ways these defiant workers responded to the intense discrimination and exploitation of an unjust system that still persists today. Mireya Loza is a curator in the Division of Political History at the National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. Lori A. Flores is an Assistant Professor of History at Stony Brook University (SUNY) and the author of Grounds for Dreaming: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants, and the California Farmworker Movement (Yale, 2016). You can find her at http://www.loriaflores.com, lori.flores@stonybrook.edu, or hanging around Brooklyn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Omar Aguilar Sanchez discusses Mixtec colonial maps and land tenure.

Chris Gondek interviews Robert Williams