Podcasts about voboss

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and George the Tech unveil a powerful collaboration designed to equip voiceover professionals with essential technical prowess. Their discussion highlights the evolution of VO BOSS to include comprehensive tech support, recognizing that pristine audio and a smoothly running studio are fundamental pillars of your voiceover business success. They introduce the new VIP + Tech membership tiers, which offer direct access to George's expertise through monthly meetups, personalized sound checks, and an innovative AI-powered knowledge base, the "George the Tech Bot." By democratizing access to top-tier technical guidance, Anne and George empower voice actors to overcome studio hurdles, optimize their sound, and ultimately elevate their professional presence, ensuring they can confidently navigate the technical landscape of the voiceover industry.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VOBOSS here. 00:06 - George (Guest) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VOBOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits. 00:13 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. Enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 00:27 - George (Guest) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 00:35 - Anne (Host) Join us, guys, at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit VOBOSS.com/VIP-membership to sign up today. 00:46 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent1 today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now2 let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:10 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited today to have one of my favorite human beings on the planet here with me, and that is George the Tech, George Whittam. George, thank you so much for being with us today. 01:23 - George (Guest) Oh, it's great to be here. It must be the East Coast vibes or something, you know. We're from the same sort of corner of the country. 01:30 - Anne (Host) I think so. I think so. Gosh, bosses, if you are not familiar with George, you should be, number one. I'm so excited to talk to George today because we have come together in a collaborative effort, so to speak, and we're excited to kind of talk about that and talk about how you can boss up your tech and your audio in your studio and in your business. So, for those people that don't know George, gosh, since 2005, George has dedicated, and in George's bio it says that you've dedicated your career to serving the technical needs of voice actors, podcasters, and recording studio owners. 02:08 Guys, actually, George has dedicated probably his life, not just his career. I mean, since I've been in voiceover, George has helped me umpteen billion times, and he has been the audio engineer technician to the stars, to all of my voiceover heroes. And literally, if you've got a tech issue, George can solve it. And so I'm just excited that he's here to talk to us about things that we can do to boss up our studios and boss up our audio. And in 2017, you launched georgethetech.com, which expanded your business like a boss, from just yourself to an entire team of people which can assist anybody with training, studio design, audio processing, stacks—anything you can think about it. You're a '97 graduate from Virginia Tech, woo-hoo, East Coast, with a bachelor's degree in music and audio technology and a minor in communications, and that's pretty darn awesome, because not only are you a geek, but you can talk to people about it. 03:15 - George (Guest) I can communicate, that's right, that's right. 03:18 - Anne (Host) And gosh, if you haven't ever heard of... well, it was E-Webs and then it was VOBS, the voiceover body shop, George and Dan Leonard. For 13 years now, I've had a podcast for gosh, going on nine now, but 13 years they ran their podcast and video. Actually, what did we call it back then? 03:39 - George (Guest) It was a podcast, but it was a vlog, podcast, live stream, live stream. Yeah, it was all of it. 03:45 - Anne (Host) But all of that amazing content is still on YouTube. And now you are the co-host and producer of the Pro Audio Suite, which is wherever your favorite podcasts are located, right next to VO Boss. So after that long-winded introduction, George, I am so glad to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. 04:10 - George (Guest) Absolutely, and believe it or don't, that was definitely the abridged version. There are very, very long-winded versions of that that I've described on many podcasts if you want to hear more about all of the background. 04:24 - Anne (Host) But yeah, it's just so much. 04:26 - George (Guest) I mean, yeah, you're my people. Voice actors are my people. I love working with creative talent, and I have found that, through a test that I took not so long ago, that I'm exactly split left and right brain. 04:37 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I'm right down the center. That's why we get along, I'm quite sure, because I feel that I'm left and right brain too, 50-50. 04:44 - George (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so there's this ability to balance those two worlds, and you know, we brand ourselves as performer-friendly techs because we feel we get actors and performers and that we're not here to talk directly to tech engineers. We have helped engineers solve problems, but that's not our main tribe. Our main tribe are creatives, actors, podcasters—well, creators, people that have to deal with technology to do what they do, and we just enjoy working with folks like that. You are our people. 05:18 - Anne (Host) Well, I like being your people. So, George, let's talk a little bit about your business right now, George the Tech, and what it is that you do. And I mean, obviously you serve the voice acting community, but you also serve anybody that has an audio need or a tech need. Tell us a little bit about your business. 05:38 - George (Guest) Yeah, George the Tech is framed around supporting voice actors, and now we've added into that tribe. We've brought in the tent to now really include content creators and podcasters, because we've been dealing with more and more podcast-specific studios. But how we do that is in many different ways, from one-on-one consulting time with me, which is really kind of like—I wouldn't say the first place to start, because it's the most expensive to work with me one-on-one, but because it's going to be always the most expensive to work with the CEO—we have a tremendous number of services at much more friendly price points, down to the most popular and, I would say, best value bang for your buck service, which is called a soundcheck. And so soundchecks are where we listen to the audio. Oh, really, me? I'm still hoarding all the soundchecks. 06:29 I don't let anybody else do the soundchecks. I personally listen to every sample that comes in and I give notes. I'll look at your pictures of your studio. I'll even look at a video of how your room is set up. I want to see you at your microphone. I want a selfie of you at the mic so I know exactly what you're doing with your mic, and I evaluate all of that stuff with you. There we go. Selfies! Need a selfie on the mic, it's really important. Selfie on the mic. 06:53 And I don't mean a selfie like cheesing at the camera like this. I mean, I want you to be on mic and I want you to send me a picture of you at the mic in the position you read your scripts. It's so critical, and I'll look at all that. I'll listen to the audio, and I'll even listen to your processed audio if you do that in the production workflow as well. I'll take all of that and give back my notes about how you're doing and what could be improved, and if everything's great, I'll tell you everything's great, and all that under one price. Great, I'll tell you everything is great, and all that under one price. So that is now something that our members that we're going to talk about are going to get access to, among many other things. So we provide sound checks, and then from there we have more technical services like processing presets. So when you're doing an audition and you want that audio to sound a little more polished, it's the perfect nail polish, it's the French tip, it's just the right smoky eyes. 07:48 - Anne (Host) Now you're talking my language there, George, I love it. Oh my gosh, I must have it now. 07:56 - George (Guest) It's having just the right touch of all those things for the kind of work that you're doing. That's appropriate for the kind of work you're doing. I like to say you don't want to show up in theater makeup for your first date unless you're dating another theater actor. 08:10 But otherwise, you want to show up appropriately, and so these processing settings are very much custom to your voice. They're not cookie cutter, they're not templates. They become a template you can use, but of those templates to your voice, the sound of your room and your studio, and the style and genre of voiceover that you're actually working. So the kind of processing I'll do in an audiobook is going to be very different from the processing I'm going to do on a commercial. So that's what the processing presets are all about. 08:44 - Anne (Host) I love that. I'm going to add to your story here. So back in, I'm going to say 2010, maybe it was, maybe it was 2009. George, my father had built me a studio. I had moved to the West Coast and my father had built me a studio, and at the time we didn't really know anything about what was required in building a good sound studio. So we did what we could and it was passable. But I needed to upgrade and I needed it to sound better, and so I found George, and George paid a visit to me back in Irvine, California, and really helped me to level up my studio with a lot of things. And I ended up after your assessment, and we took your advice and we put everything together, literally. I had engineers that were like, they were like, "Oh my God, your studio sound is just amazing," and I had so many compliments on that studio, which basically was my father's studio. But then it was blessed by George and enhanced by George, it was juiced. 09:47 - George (Guest) It was juiced. 09:48 - Anne (Host) With, like you did, the French tip. So it's like we added acoustic panels, we added a bunch of things. We had, I remember, the studio clouds, and so all those things made my sound so good that I for years after that would have people complimenting me, asking me if I had like a studio brick studio or—because this was before—asking me if I had like a Studio Bricks studio or because this was before. 10:07 - George (Guest) Some fancy brand name. 10:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, this was actually before those were even a thing. 10:12 And not only did you help me with my physical studio, but you helped me with stacks, and I remember I think I wrote you a testimonial back in the day, like you saved me like 50% of my editing time just by those stacks that you created for me, because I was able to take those and process my audio that I was sending to my clients and literally half of my work was done for me already, like a little bit of EQ, some compression, getting rid of some of the breaths, and that was back in 2010. 10:41 And so literally, George, I still have—like, I have a new studio and I got one more set from you, but literally I used those for years. I was in the same studio, had the same mic, and honestly, like they just worked amazingly well for years. And so they're very, very valuable, those sound checks and the stacks that you created and any sort of help. And it amazed me because, even though you came to see me in Irvine, when I then moved and then created a new studio, you could do everything remotely. I mean, what you can do remotely is really wonderful, like you can listen to somebody's audio and then you can make recommendations based on that. And you said you want selfies of "where's your mic, what does your studio look like," and so, based upon all that, you can actually just do consulting from remote. 11:28 You don't have to actually be on site, although you could be if it was local, right? And I guess, if the client wanted you to just come and do a full-scale like build of studios... yeah, once in a while we do that. 11:39 - George (Guest) Yeah, once in a while it happens. 11:40 - Anne (Host) So I mean, I firsthand have had George for the longest time helping me with my audio, and also back in the day, and this goes into what we're going to be collaborating with. When I started VOPeeps, bosses, I don't know if you've heard of VOPeeps—hopefully you have—but I've run VOPeeps since 2010. And in 2010, I created a networking group that was physical, like people came to my house. 12:03 - George (Guest) Can you imagine? 12:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, people came to my house for meetups, for meetups, and ultimately first it was just a bunch of voiceover actors and, you know, it was a get-together and we kind of like—we either had a little potluck and then it turned into something a little more extravagant where my husband would start making food and kind of catered it for us, and ultimately it was like-minded people getting together. And then I decided that I wanted to branch out and make it even bigger, and so I started inviting all my heroes, all my VO heroes, and I would interview them in my living room. I would interview mine in the living room, and ultimately people would come to the house and it would be a really cool local networking meetup. 12:44 - George (Guest) I remember helping to figure out some of the tech and stuff to make that work. It was quite an adventure. 12:50 - Anne (Host) I started streaming back in... 12:52 I want to say 2010 for sure, when streaming technology was just beginning, and I had had some experience working in technology from my previous job, and so I first started streaming those meetups live on the internet from my laptop computer on my coffee table with a blue snowball microphone and a little, I think it was a Logitech webcam. But the cool thing was is that I now went from a local meetup to a global meetup. And then, as we grew and I did these gosh, once a month for almost six years, and as we grew, I said, "Who's the person that can help me to really make this stand out and have great audio and stream my networking meetups over the internet?" Well, who better than George? So I hired George to come stream my meetups on the internet and take care of all the video recording and the audio. And it was great because you came with all your equipment and I had equipment. You helped set it up, and gosh, we had a good time, didn't we? We did. 14:00 - George (Guest) We did. It was such great memories. 14:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, they grew and grew, and so that's pretty much my VO peeps. I have lots of great memories of it being physically in my house, and I think in 2017—was it 2016 or 2017—was when, finally, once a month, it became a lot because they grew. I had up to 55 people in my home that my husband was making themed meals. It was packed. 14:23 - George (Guest) It was sold out all the time. Themed drinks. 14:25 - Anne (Host) We started selling tickets to it, and gosh, we would definitely stream it live. We would have Zoom. We would have people working out via Zoom, and so we would actually have them piped in, piped in. We have Zoom piped in to my TV. 14:40 - George (Guest) It was sophisticated, it really was back in the day. I mean, you know, it was the closest to like having hybrid training where you've got people in the room and you've got people online, all at the same time. Yeah, it was very, very ahead of its time. 14:53 - Anne (Host) All across the globe. And so George was that tech geek that was there to like, put it together and help me. And I'd be like, "I want to do this." And George would be like, "Okay, let's—we can do this, we can do this." And so if you guys need outside of just audio—I mean George, the tech, right—any kind of tech, and I know bosses, as

Anne Ganguzza welcomes live-action Dubbing Casting Director Jessica Blue this week! Jessica Blue shares her captivating journey from a cartoon-loving kid in the San Francisco Bay Area to becoming a sought-after talent and director in Los Angeles. The BOSSES take you behind the scenes of voice dubbing, where Jessica reveals the art of directing and casting for this unique form of acting. She explains how directors play a crucial role in ensuring performances are authentic and compelling. The conversation touches on the challenges of adapting scripts for different languages, the essential role of adapters, and the dynamic, fast-paced nature of dubbing. The BOSSES expertise and experiences provide a valuable roadmap for aspiring voice actors navigating this exciting field. Anne and Jessica also preview the upcoming VO Peeps class where participants can experience a live-action dubbing session. 00:01 - Joe (Ad) Hi, this is Joe and I just wanted to say that, in addition to being a marketing guru in her own right, Anne Ganguzza goes deep and she has a vast knowledge and a huge breadth of experience in all and everything VO voice, acting, online communication and she offers a plethora of valuable information and golden nuggets, a fountain of first-hand knowledge, which is VOBoss. I myself had the privilege of participating in a super fun bilingual contest and one of the treats I won, alongside my colleagues, was to be interviewed by Anne and Pilar Uribe A chance to share, learn and get inspired on so many different fronts. I promise you Y, si quieres, te lo cuento en español, pero mientras tanto, búscate un episodio en VO Boss. You might easily find an amazing podcast to get instantly inspired in your work. Whatever that is.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, what's up bosses? Join our VIPs today and gain access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops designed to enhance your voiceover skills. From industry insights to practical techniques, our workshops cover a wide range of topics. As a VIPs member, you'll also receive a 15% discount on current workshops and free monthly workshops to keep your skills sharp. Don't miss out on this opportunity. Sign up for VIP's membership now at vopeepscom.  01:36 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so very excited to have special guest Jessica Blue with us this morning. Yay, hello.  02:06 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Thank you for having me.  02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi, jessica, hi For those bosses who don't know Jessica. Jessica has been a voice actress for 20 years and is an English dubbing voice and casting director on oh, some small projects like Netflix, disney+, hbo, hulu, amazon and more and of course, that was sarcastic. I want you to be able to read that acting Jessica. You can give me some tips if I have to dub over it. Okay, but as a VO talent, some of her clients include small names like Google, microsoft, macy's, wells Fargo, and the list goes on and on and on. She's also provided voices for several dubbed films and series, and some of her dubbing projects that she's directed include no Gain, no Love on Amazon, crooks from Netflix, moving, hulu and Burning Betrayal Netflix. Jessica, it is a pleasure to have you here this morning. Thanks for having me.  02:58 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I'm super excited to talk with you.  03:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, yeah. So I want to say it's just been so wonderful like knowing you for the past few years and I wish I had known you like 10, 20 years ago. Same yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've had you as a guest director for our VO Peeps a couple of times and I'm going to have you coming up this year as well for dubbing. And I guess I want to start with the bosses that are not necessarily familiar with who you are. Let's talk about your voice acting career first and how it all got started. Cool.  03:28 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Well, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay Area and I grew up watching cartoons like a lot of kids. Bugs Bunny was my favorite and I just loved being in that world of imagination and where anything could happen. And I thought wouldn't it be cool to be a cartoon someday, Not knowing that that was voiceover. And it wasn't until many, many years later. When my ex-husband, of all things, heard this woman talking on the radio about voiceover, I'm like what is that? And he thought I would like that.  03:56 And so I went, took a intro class and I completely fell in love, dove headfirst and took all the classes, learned as much as I could and then eventually got an agent up there and started working in video games and commercials a little bit of animation for games and stuff, a lot of narration as well and then slowly migrated down to LA, because there was a collective of us in that group that really wanted to do animation and so we created our own show and pitched it around and down here in LA and I'd come back and everybody had kind of already migrated and moved down here, and I was the last one because I still had a whole life up there. I had a full time job. Up there I was taking care of my parents and one day my dad just said sounds like you need to be down there. Why don't you just go? I'm like I have to take care of you. I have to do all this stuff.  04:43 There's no way Best day of my life because he basically gave me the permission. It's like you need to live your life. Stop doing this for us. Do what you need to do, follow your passion. I'm like I love you, dad. So it took me a couple more years to get my ducks in a row and finally leave the corporate life which was the best decision of my life ever and made the move down to Los Angeles in 2013 and didn't have a plan B, didn't have a job, didn't have an agent down here, nothing, but I was all focused on voiceover and I had already come down here, like the year prior, to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of immerse myself in the LA culture, in the LA VO community.  05:30 And then it just kind of took off and got an agent, started working, getting more jobs and met awesome people like you and Jeff Howell and all these other amazing folks, and just been doing it ever since. And then Jeff Howell is actually the one who got me into dubbing because he had a project come up and he says I need your help, I need you to help me organize all this stuff.  05:50 I'm like, okay, and we kind of started doing dubbing together and did about six movies together. I want to say and he says, okay, you should be directing, you need to be directing. And I had expressed an interest in directing and so it just kind of shifted into I was still doing acting. I love that, but I love directing so much and it was so great. And so.  06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've sort of shifted.  06:15 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Now I still do a little bit of acting here and there, Super picky and choosy about what auditions I do, who I read for all that good stuff, because I really have a focus more on directing and stuff. So that's where my passion now lies and that's kind of it.  06:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that because you kind of follow your passion and it all just followed you Do, you know what. I mean, you've manifested it for yourself, which is something that I absolutely love, and I love directing myself, but not necessarily dubbing, but in terms of demos and that whole creative process of being able to take it from the ground up to something beautiful. And so let me ask you. So 20 years has passed or so, and so how has the industry evolved and changed since you first?  07:02 - Jessica Blue (Guest) were in it. Oh my God, night and day Back in the day when I was first started and first of all, I felt like I was coming into this super late because I was already in my 30s, I want to say when I started getting into this. And most people you know get in their 20s. They're doing this or even earlier, so I felt like a super late bird, but that's been the story of my life. I'm a late bloomer and everything.  07:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's funny. I was actually in my thirties too. Well, I was in corporate. I was actually in education. I came from corporate to education and before you go on, I did want to say what did you do in corporate, Because that's always interesting to me You're going to laugh.  07:37 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I was a paralegal manager for the electric company in their law department.  07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, my gosh Okay.  07:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah.  07:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, no, nothing surprises me actually.  07:46 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, like legal jargon, medical jargon, I've got that locked, unlocked yeah.  07:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's crazy.  07:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) It's always interesting to find out what corporate places people come from you know it's such a different world, but it's definitely helped my business as far as you know. Knowing how to communicate, being responsive and just general email etiquette, that kind of thing. It goes a long way. But back when I first started you needed to be where your agent was. You had to go in person to audition and it started to slowly switch to where you could record at home and then send it in an MP3.  08:26 But for the most part, like it was super hard to get an LA agent if you were not in LA or even in New York or wherever you had to be there, locally, physically, because they had so many other talent that was right there, hop, skip and a jump that they could grab. So that has completely changed, especially since COVID, because now everything's remote or phoned in or whatever. That's probably the biggest thing. Also, because of that, it's exploded the amount of voiceovers, because there's been such a spotlight on it, especially with all the new animated movies. I mean, back in the day, you know, I had Cinderella and Bambi, you know those movies which were classics, snow White. But now we have a new one coming out, several coming out every year, and they've got these celebrities attached to it.  09:13 So people, the general audience, are seeing these celebs do these voices and they're like, oh, I want to do that voice or I could do that voice, and they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun.  09:22 And they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun, let me go do some voiceover, not realizing it's a process you have to learn, you have to know how to act first of all. It's not just about your voice and take the training, learn the craft. So I think that has sort of opened the door for way more people. So it's super competitive now, and you're not just competing with people in your local area or in your state or now even in your country, right In other countries now, because everybody can now just kind of send stuff in electronically. So technology has definitely improved, as well as having a booth Again, it used to be like I just have a crappy little setup in my closet and now people have these amazing beautiful booths with lighting and all this stuff, and I mean, technology has come so far, so that's a whole nother thing too. So a lot has changed.  10:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot has changed, but you have evolved along with that. And now you mentioned something about acting.  10:17 I always like to talk about acting, when you kind of made the shift, kind of also in parallel working with dubbing. You're talking about acting on the fly, I mean. I think that that becomes like front and center in terms of what are the qualifications that you need as an actor or as a voice actor to really get into this industry. And maybe I can just have you explain dubbing kind of from the beginning for the bosses who are not necessarily as familiar with the dubbing industry.  10:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So basically for if you don't know what dubbing is, it's essentially taking a movie or a TV show from another language and putting it into English so you don't have to watch with subtitles. You can actually hear the English spoken while you're watching the video, and our goal is to make sure that the lip flaps match as close as possible so that it doesn't take you out of that and you forget that you're watching a dub. It's a long process, a lot goes into it, it's very detailed, which I'm not going to go into all the gory details of it. But the main thing that I'm looking for when I'm hiring and casting someone to do a dub is that they can act, that I believe that their voice is coming out of the face that I'm seeing on screen and that they're able to give all the nuances of that performance. And it's actually really cool, in my opinion, because it's so much closer to being on stage or being on set and diving into a character and get all that juicy goodness, versus reading a three second tag or a 30 second copy for medical whatever. So there's a lot more that goes into it and it's definitely a skill that has to be learned by doing it.  11:54 It rinse and repeat kind of thing. It does take practice because it can be very challenging and overwhelming at first because there's a lot going on. Because not only are you walking in blind, you have no idea when are you walking in blind, you have no idea when you book a job. You have no idea if you're the lead, if you're an incidental, how many characters you're doing, what the show's about, how long you know all this stuff. You have no clue. So it's the director's job to fill that in for you explain the show who your character is, what they're about, what's going on in the scene, and then you watch the scene and you're seeing this rhythm of band go by with the dialogues screaming by like karaoke and you're trying to read, you're trying to watch the video, you're kind of your eyes are sort of doing this back and forth to try and understand everything and you're seeing it for the first time.  12:38 I've seen it maybe two or three times at this point, right but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of like you're watching it for the first time just to know what the heck is going on and who are these people and what's happening. And then we'll watch it a second time. So now you understand the scene, you understand what's going on, and now you can start maybe looking closer at the faces on screen and see what their reaction is, the projection of how loud they are soft and then we'll do a take, and then we'll do another take and put it all together and review it. And I'm looking at the dialogue to make sure that you're saying all the right words and you're not mispronouncing anything.  13:15 And all of that good stuff and it's a lot and it takes about, I'd say, for a newbie about 15 to 20 minutes to get into the groove of it, if it's like their first time. But even experienced debbers you know they'll come in and they'll watch it and takes them a little bit of time to get warmed up too, and that's just the nature of it. But it's like everything's firing all at once. It can be very overwhelming, but it's so much fun once you get the hang of it and you get in the groove and you're just. Then you're just like, oh, all right, we're going, and it's so much fun.  13:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, in terms of directing, let's say, if you were directing just a script that was not on the screen and you're just directing a commercial for someone, versus directing a dub scene, it seems like you have to know, I don't know, the directing is different. I mean, I feel like you have to know so much more quicker when you're doing the dubbing, because, because you have to also impart, like the actual scene, what's happening to the actor, and if the actor's not getting it or just not embodying the character in the right way, then you've got to figure out, well, how am I going to get them so that it makes a believable scene? And then, if not, what do you do? I mean, have you had actors that just didn't work out and then you had to essentially say I'm sorry and then recast I can't imagine so explain some of the differences because, like my, directing for a demo is completely different, because we're taking the words and we're creating the scene.  14:34 We're making it up, this. You have the scene already and you've got to try to communicate that to the actor.  14:39 - Jessica Blue (Guest) More, I would imagine yeah, I mean, on the one side it's kind of nice because you already have this template of what you need to do. You basically have to try to match that, match their energy, match their tone, match it. So it looks like what you're doing out of here is coming out of what you see. So in that sense it's a little bit simpler, because you can see what's happening with a commercial or even when you're auditioning for a dub.  15:07 You don't have the luxury of the video to see what's going on or see what's happening in the scene. So you have to make that up in your mind and you have to find those nuggets in the script, in the dialogue, that might clue you into where are they, what's happening, why did they say this line? What does that mean? What is the intention behind that, what might be happening? And you have to somehow create that in your head, make a choice and go with it. Very much like when you're doing a commercial script. It's a lot of script analysis when you're looking at that stuff and so it's kind of cool.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Actually, you don't ever get the scene, you don't ever get the video, do you Very, very rarely?  15:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) You might if we are doing in-person auditions, do you when you're auditioning? Very, very rarely you might. If we are doing in-person auditions, we do VTKs, which is a video test kit and that will have the actor come in. They'll do an audition in person, to the video, to the scene, so they'll see what's happening, they'll see the actors and everything and they'll get directed. So it's a directed audition. That's about the only time Very rarely will we send out a clip.  16:06 It'll just be the sides and they'll just have that to go on and wing it a prayer and figure it out and make a strong choice. Read through that analysis, look through everything, pick out whatever you can. Make a strong choice, go with it, because again, I'm listening for your acting chops as well as, if I believe, the voice coming out of the face. But even if I'm hearing someone do a commercial, I'm still in that visual sense of who are you talking to? Are you connected? Are you just phoning this in? Are you just reading this? It's very similar because there's a lot of times, too, where I'll have clients like they sound like they're reading. It's like, well, they kind of are because they're reading this girl going by, but you have to make it sound like you're not reading, just like you would a commercial or a video game or anything. You have to make it conversational. That's the name of the game in dubbing is conversational. We want real, grounded, authentic voices, authentic acting. Not, hi, how are you? I am Jessica Mm-hmm.  17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  17:05 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah absolutely.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what tips would you say then? Could you give a voice actor that wants to get into dubbing, like, what can they do to prepare themselves? Maybe, and maybe practice or coach with you? Yeah, absolutely, I do do coaching, yeah, besides coaching with you, but I'm just so, yeah, what can they do if they're interested in dubbing? What's your best tips? Watch some dubs.  17:27 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Go on Netflix, go on Hulu, Disney, Amazon, whatever. Watch some dubs that are good and watch how their acting is, or listen to how their acting is in relation to what's happening in the scene. A way to practice is kind of cool, Not exact, but it will help you with that sight reading of looking up to the video and looking down to the dialogue is put on subtitles. Grab your favorite show or movie, put on the subtitles, watch it with the sound on with the subtitles.  17:57 read the subtitles and get used to switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles, switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles and then rewind it, mute it and then say it with the subtitles and see how close you can match to their mouths, or whatever. I mean. It's not going to be exact, but that will help you with that skill of sight reading, of going back and forth from the video to the dialogue.  18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I should be amazing Jessica, because I'm old and I have the subtitles on all the time because I can't hear, so I've got the eyesight going and I don't necessarily practice along with that. But yeah, no, that's a great tip. And to actually watch dubs, I think is great, and I myself have watched dubs and I've watched people do it because I've watched you direct people. Do you think it's something that all voice actors would love to do? Or do you feel like it's a niche where I feel, like people that do audiobooks, they love their audiobooks, people that dub love dubbing, like? Or do you think it's just something like oh, it's another genre, it's just oh, I can. What's your experience with talent? I think it's a little of both.  18:57 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think it is sort of a niche. I have my core group of actors that you know. It's like the standard dubbers or whatever, but I'm always finding new talent, always bringing new people into the fold. And so and I've never really had someone go, oh, I don't like this or this isn't for me Maybe they did and I didn't know about it.  19:18 But usually, even though they might be scared and nervous getting into it because they're not sure about anything new, any change, once they do it they're like oh my God, this is kind of fun, I really like this. So then they like tell me more, how do I get into it? How do I do what? How do I need to get more of this type of work? And so it kind of fuels their fire to do it or be more interested in it. So I think it's definitely grown a lot in the last couple of years, for sure, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon because there's so much content. There's so much content out there from other countries that are being brought into the United States and getting dubbed into English. So I don't think the work is going anywhere anytime soon. So I think we're okay.  19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So here's the elephant in the room right Synthetic voices AI. How does that work into dubbing, or does it not? Or what are your thoughts? Is it a threat?  20:07 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I don't think it's a threat now, and if it is, it's going to be minor. I don't think it's going to take over lead voices because, it cannot reproduce these performances, the nuances that humans can, and I think we've got that covered and okay. And also I've heard stories about companies trying to use AI to dub a lead character and the audience isn't buying it.  20:31 They're like that looks weird, that sounds weird, it doesn't match or whatever, and so I think for the main characters, lead characters and everything, we're good, we're okay. It's not going to go the AI route. It might change to where they might end up using some type of AI situation that is ethically sourced. Ai.  20:50 voices for Walla for the background noise, like you know, in airports and restaurants and things like that, because that's just this murmur, this hum bed of voices that you hear in the background, and not necessarily actual dialogue that you can make out and hear what they're saying, but they already have a lot of those like sound beds. You know that we've recorded over many years and they can just plop that in. So it's kind of already done, so I don't know why they would actually need an AI for that.  21:16 So I don't necessarily see I mean, if anything, I think AI might come in on more of the production side, the backside of it, not the performance side, you know, more of the organization of files and management and things like that, or QCing stuff like that I don't know that it's going to really impact the performance side of things for dubbing yet, and I mean who knows Anything's possible but also to get all of these companies on the same page. You know, if somehow this fantastic software came out that you know is able to match the voice to the original actor or change whatever to get everybody on board with that, I mean that's a huge feat in and of itself and I don't see that happening anytime soon. So I think we're okay.  21:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you talk about when we dub, we're dubbing from one language to another. Typically for us we would be the English, and so how much of a disconnect is there because of the language differences, you know, in terms of like lip flap and believability is there from certain languages, and are some languages easier to dub than others? Oh yeah, two things.  22:17 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Some languages their lips barely move, so they're talking like this and it's like what do you say? There's no labial movements, oh my God. And then there's some like Spanish and French, where they are motor mouths and they're like and what takes in Spanish? It takes them 10 words to say what we can say in five in English. But there's like all these, like you know, like happy birthday hon. You know, it's like so different, but yet we would then have to add on extra words stretch it out, add on words, because there's still all that mouth flap that we have to cover, so we would have to add on words.  22:57 Or, in the opposite of French, they can say something very short, like two words, and it takes us seven words to say. So how do we? Ah, like they say nothing?  23:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So who does that editing? That's interesting. Who does that editing? Is that you, or it sometimes is me. It's the adapter.  23:13 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, which I also do Adaptation is probably the most important and critical step in the whole dubbing process. That's basically where the studio will send it to a translator. They'll translate the Spanish into English. Then that goes to the adapter. The adapter then takes that English translation, rewrites it to make it sound conversational, make it match the lip flaps, adding words, subtracting words, making jokes work that might not make sense to us it does in their language but it doesn't jive with us and then also syncing it all up.  23:46 So the lines are matched up to start, of the mouth opening to the mouth closing, as well as adding in all of the vocal efforts. So laughs, sneezes, coughing, crying, breathing, fight scenes, getting punched, coughing, throat clearing, anything like that is always going to be in brackets so that we have those vocal efforts, because it's going to look funny if you're just talking and all of a sudden you do this and like you don't hear anything. Yeah, yeah, what was that? Right, right, it was a sigh. Ok, got it. So we had to put sighs in brackets so that the actor knows that they have to sigh when they see that chest movement.  24:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a lot OK. So business wise it seems like a lot of work right. So I have a film right. And where does the money come from? The distribution, the licensing of the film in different languages?  24:33 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think so, yeah, because it'll be like a Netflix will go out and they'll buy the property, the distribution rights for a show from the original person, which is probably yeah, where the money comes from and then that pays for it, because it seems like an awful lot of work, sometimes right, it is a huge  24:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) amount of work If you want a huge amount of work to get to a product that you don't know if it's going to. I mean it's like any movie that comes out right. I mean you put a lot of investment into it, so I imagine that, yeah, it's just got to be the purchase of the rights to the movie. That is where the money is, because is is because is the money. Does the voice actor get money? I mean, I'm sure they get paid. Do you know what I mean? But I mean, let's talk about how well does the voice actor get paid or the dubber get paid for this. Is this an industry that is lucrative? It can be.  25:19 - Jessica Blue (Guest) If you book a lead role, it can be very lucrative because that means multiple sessions, especially if it's a TV show, because that's multiple episodes. So you could be a six episode show, a 12 episode show, a 20 episode show. So if you're a lead character, you're in all those episodes. You're getting paid for every single time. You go into the booth for a session and we cover as much as we possibly can in a session until we exhaust all of the lines for that character.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you get paid per session right.  25:48 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Per session.  25:48 - Intro (Announcement) You don't get paid per airing of you know like a nice national commercial.  25:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's no royalties, there's no kickbacks.  25:55 - Jessica Blue (Guest) There's no nothing it would be so nice.  25:57 Especially if it like took off or whatever, oh my God. But no, it's per session. If it's a union project, it's under the union contract, the dubbing union contract, which I think now it's like $190 something per hour with a two-hour minimum, and so if you're hired for a four-hour session, that's $195 times four, and if we finish with you in three hours, you still get paid for the four hours. If we have a pickup, you still get paid for that two-hour minimum. Even if you're in there for 15 minutes, you still get paid. So pickups are kind of nice too.  26:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, do you now negotiate in contracts like the AI writer, because, let's say, you need a pickup and the actor isn't available? Right, can they utilize the voice to create an AI voice to then maybe do a pickup?  26:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've not had that come up yet, and I think myself I don't deal with the contracts with the actors. That's the studio that handles all of that. So I think some of them might have an AI writer, some of them might not. So if you're an actor into dubbing and you want to check that out, make sure you read your contracts and see if it's in there and if it's not ask them and see if they'll do it, because a lot of them will, but at this point I don't think we've had that issue.  27:09 We always find workarounds honestly like even if we missed a line, maybe we have a backup or we can frankenstein something together, or if we missed a breath or a laugh here, I'll just steal it from somewhere else and plug it in there so I don't have to have anything to save that money for the client, so that we don't have to worry about that pickup. And even for incidental. Sometimes I'll jump in the booth and if I just need a line or something to cover whatever, I'll just jump in there. I'm like, let me just do it, it'll be really fast, it's fine, I'll just do it.  27:37 So, but yeah, it can be lucrative if you're a lead, because that means multiple sessions. If you're an incidental, it's just fun practice and maybe it's one session, one and done and you're in and out and that's still fun. But also, I think, when actors do get on the radar of these studios and directors then and they do it one time, two times, and they do well, we like working with cool people, good people, good actors, so we're gonna have you back and you'll get in that roster, in that pool of people, and you just kind of start working, working, work and it's kind of cool that way.  28:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah. Well, that's nice. So then, the first thing, if voice actors want to get into dubbing is, I would say bump up your acting skills, yeah absolutely. Do you have good recommendations for acting classes, like in-person acting classes, online acting classes or working with a coach? Perhaps All of it?  28:30 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Honestly, I feel like if you can do in-person, that's great because obviously you're feeding off the energy of everybody. I prefer being in person with people versus Zoom, but Zoom is obviously much more efficient and effective, especially if you aren't able to travel to do in-person. One-on-ones are also great if you're working with a coach or a teacher, because all the focus is on you and you can really hone in on what needs you need to work on and improve on.  28:59 But also the group session is great because you can learn from others and what I like to say, steal with love and take a little bit of that and that and put it in my pocket I'm going to use that, yeah, I mean it's life, isn't it?  29:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's how we do it. I think all of us, when we teach voice acting, we want to get to the same end result. We want authentic, believable performances, and so, however we say it to get the actor to get there, we're all trying to get to the same end result. So, yeah, absolutely, and that, I believe, also is going to translate well to they can do dubbing and they can do voice acting, because acting is just going to help you all the way around, and acting will even help you in medical and corporate. And I say that just because you know that's me, and that's my geeky that's my geeky place.  29:41 I think it can help you even more because that stuff is typically very dry and boring and you've got to make that. You've got to make that come alive in some way to make it interesting to people so that they want to listen to it. I mean, right now I'm going through some online courses and I'm telling you like it is tough. I know I need to know this information and I am just like, oh God, I got to do four more hours of this, and so it really helps when you've got the skills to be engaging and to like connect with the listener on the other end. Yeah, absolutely so, if I am hearing you correctly. Of course, acting would be number one. Acting would be number one to help get you into dubbing, and then, of course, watching dubbed TV shows and really getting in on that. And then what about networking? How can they network with the places that might hire them?  30:23 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Absolutely Research. Google is your best friend. Look up and search dubbing houses, dubbing recording studios in your neck of the woods, See who's out there. And also I will say another trick is when you're watching these shows and movies online that are dubs, at the very end sometimes they'll have the credits for the dubs of who the actors are, who the studio is, who the director and the casting, the producer are, so you can actually see what studios are doing the dubs that way.  30:54 And then you can look those up and see. If you can't find an, email. And a lot of those studios have their own rosters that they're actively looking for talent. So you could reach out to one of them and like, hey, are you open for taking on new talent? I'm interested in dubbing, or I have. I've done a dub here and there. I'd love to be considered for a future dub and just throw whatever you can at the wall and see what sticks.  31:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Would you say that the majority of it is done in LA and in the big cities where, yeah, a chunk of it is.  31:20 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But I know Dallas I want to say Dallas, but one of the big cities in Texas they do a lot of anime with Crunchyroll I think. But there's other dub houses. There's one in Florida called the Kitchen in Miami. There's obviously several overseas, in Europe and elsewhere. So again, it's just you know Google, google is your best friend. Find where they are and search them out and do some research on that to figure out who's doing what and where, and you'll find it. And yeah, I would say networking is to find those people and seek them out and hit them up. But be human and personal about it. Don't just be like needy, like hi, I'm so, and so here's my demo. Listen to me.  31:59 No, make it make a connection yeah, make a connection to be memorable. So that because I, I get. Sometimes I'll get those emails that just say here, here's my demo. I'd love to work with you sometime Like great. I don't know you. From who are you next? You?  32:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) know, yeah, so I've been dying to ask you this because, of course, this goes along with. I feel like we're networking and there's a lot of talk about when you're running your business, because you can be the best actor in the world, but if nobody knows about it, it's hard for you, kind of. Over the years, have established a brand for myself, and a lot of people that know me for the VO Boss brand know that I have the red headphones, or I have the red lipstick because I talk about it all the time, and my Anne Ganguzza brand is blue and guess what? Jessica Blue. If anybody doesn't know Jessica or has never met Jessica, you can find her easily because she's got very signature branding.  32:50 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So let's talk about that for a little bit, if you don't mind, of course you can't really see it well in this lighting, but I do have blue hair and I have really blue eyes. You do, yes, you do Pops when the blue starts to fade and get lighter, and my logo is blue. I always have blue nails.  33:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm wearing blue nails. My car is my favorite color.  33:12 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've loved it since I was a kid when I actually, when I was a kid and I was sharing a room with my sister, we had bunk beds and everything, and then my mom cleaned out this other room and we got to switch and I got my own room, finally, and I got to decorate it however I wanted I had it was blue carpet. Blue paint on one wall, blue wallpaper everywhere.  33:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had blue stripes. I mean, blue is one of my absolute favorites. I had blue stripes, I painted on one. I had an accent wall in my bedroom. I'm an 80s girl, right 70s, 80s. It was literally like two different shades of blue and it was like a big, like V. It was hysterical. That's awesome and I loved it, but I will say that your branding works so well for you. Did you do that because not only your favorite color is blue, but because you wanted to become memorable in your business? Is that another angle?  33:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) that that part never even hit. I'll tell you how so. Loose flash blue is not my real name, it's my stage name. What? Um? Yeah, I know secrets galore. No, it actually came up. So I've been rocking the blue hair since 2001. Okay, and I think it was around 2000.  34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before it was a thing, right, I mean really. I mean I would say, when I grew up it was only if you were a punk. And then you had you know, what I mean. I feel like I started, like yeah, I feel like I sort of started this trend like it was acceptable, because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair.  34:32 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yes, exactly, and acceptable because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair yes, exactly, and I'm like, if they don't like it, they can go pound sand because I know how to do my job.  34:37 I'm doing my job and this has nothing to do with what I can do. So but I was in a workout group with some fellow actors and one of my friends, I think I had come in with a blue stripe in my hair. I was testing the waters out to see if I liked it or not and I had just one little blue strand. And she says, oh, you should change your name to Jessica Blue. And I'm like, oh, I like that. I think I'm going to do that. From that point on, I became Jessica Blue in all things voiceover and acting and I've never looked back.  35:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is so attached to you and I think it's brilliant.  35:12 I mean, whether you intended that to be or not, like I will always know how to spot you in a crowd number one, but I also remember your name and so I'm always telling my students that until people know who you are, I mean you have to establish a brand. I mean, and so I'm like, well, make yourself a great actor and associate yourself with maybe another brand in your demo that people can say oh, I love that Ford spot that you did, or I love that movie you did, or whatever. If you can make yourself memorable in that kind of a way where you're attaching yourself to a brand or a show, right, then I think that that starts to get the ball rolling, because I think success begets success. Ball rolling because I think success begets success. And, like you said, once you start and you get into kind of the circles where you're dubbing and people like you, then it's nice because you get that kind of repeat work and I think that's important in terms of if you want to build your business.  36:04 So thank you for the explanation of your brand. I love it Absolutely.  36:08 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But it also it's not. It's not who you know, it's who knows you, because that's how you're going to become memorable and hired over and over again. So it is very important. I agree with you, but thank you.  36:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, I appreciate that. So if you make it easy, if you make it easy to stand out and be unique and you've done it brilliantly. So, Jessica, this is so much fun yes, it has. Thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, my pleasure, and so I do know that you did say that a random listener is going to receive something special with you. Did you say a one-hour coaching?  36:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) session One-hour free coaching session for dubbing, yes.  36:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what I'm going to do is I'm going to randomly choose one listener, and so, in order for me to randomly choose a listener, you guys have to submit a testimonial, maybe on this episode, saying that you like this episode, and so I absolutely. On the VO Boss website, at vobosscom, you can submit your testimonial. If you do that for this episode with Jessica and you mention Jessica, we will then randomly select a winner within a week of the episode release to get a free one-hour dubbing coaching session. Yay, that's awesome. Thank you, jessica.  37:17 - Intro (Announcement) Of course that's so generous.  37:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My pleasure, all right. Well, again, thanks so much. This has been wonderful and bosses, keep a lookout for the VO Peeps workout. Which gosh, is it May, june? I'm trying to think.  37:28 - Intro (Announcement) I think it's February. When do we have? When do we have? Oh my gosh February.  37:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, next month. Oh, that's right, it is next month. Next month we have you for VOP. So guys go get that ticket, because Jessica sells out very, very quickly. Thanks again, thank you, I really, really appreciate it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, find out more at IPDTLcom Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  37:56 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we dive into Anne's enlightening experience at the Podcast Movement conference in Washington, DC. Discover the critical lessons Anne learned by stepping out of the voiceover industry bubble and mingling with top podcasters and corporate reps. The BOSSES tackle the complexities of measuring podcast success, the evolving role of advertisements, and the innovative strategies that can set your podcast apart. Passion and authenticity are at the heart of this episode as we explore how genuine storytelling can elevate both podcasting and voice acting careers. Learn why being relatable and embracing video content is more important than ever for voice actors. Consistency and authenticity are key, and we provide practical tips for maintaining a successful show. Finally, we wrap up with advice on continuous personal and professional development, reminding you to stay proactive and always seek growth opportunities. 00:02 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) Hi, this is Bonnie Marie Williams, and I was listening to VOBoss for years before I began working on the show. It was actually the first voiceover podcast I ever heard and I absolutely fell in love with it the energy, the humor and how much information it provides to the voiceover community. But what I love most about VOBoss is how it takes on the current topics in the industry, how it discusses things we really should be talking about, all of the positivity and how much time and energy Ann devotes to the show to make it so valuable for all of us. I mean, we just want to rock our businesses like a boss, right? So, ann, thank you for bringing me into the boss family and for all you do for bosses everywhere.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, Through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com.  01:17 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am delighted to be here and it seems like it's been forever with my bestie, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you?  01:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, it has been forever. It's been, I don't know, two months or whatever. It's been, but two months for us is like two years.  02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So much happens. It's been too long. I mean, a lot of things have been happening. I just got back from podcast movement in DC and I had a really good experience there that I wanted to share some takeaways if you didn't mind.  02:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Actually, that's cool. I was going to ask you about that because so many of us and certainly us as talent as well are doing podcasts or want to do podcasts, and that kind of a movement is something we want to know about. So, please, sharing is caring.  02:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a lot of takeaways. Number one was, first and foremost, it was so nice for me to get outside of my bubble, outside of my studio bubble, my dealing with voice talent, voice actors and people in the industry. Not that I don't love dealing with people in the industry, but actually going to a conference and immersing myself into a marketplace where I want to sell to right, because there are podcasters here, which, yeah, of course, I have some podcast consulting services, of course, but I mean that wasn't my primary purpose. My primary purpose was to mingle with the corporates, because, guess what, everything I do voiceover right, corporate narration, commercial all of this really directs itself to that market. And it's so nice to be able to immerse yourself in that market and just, hey guys, this might be a novel idea, but just listen, right, listen to what your potential clients need, what are their problems, what sort of frustrations are they experiencing and how can you, with your voice or your voiceover product, help them?  03:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) them. Annie, can you give us the infrastructure of it, because I don't know about that particular world in terms of what a trade show or a convention would look like for podcasters. What did it look like? How many folks were there? How long was it? Did you meet any like top level podcasters who we need to know about? Oh, yeah, I did.  04:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I met celebrities. There's like celebrity podcasters the Diary of a CEO those of you that listen to podcasts. I met the scrappy podcaster. I met the guy who actually, you know, is in all the videos for Riverside too. So the conference was four days long and it was in DC, and this one in particular, it was a little bit more corporate centric. I go to two of them every year.  04:23 The other one is PodFest, which is very much creatives like ourselves, independent creatives, a lot of hey, I've got this show and how can I make money with this show? That's really like the question on everybody's mind and I know that anybody who's ever asked me about podcasting is like, well, how can I make money? And I'm always like, well, don't bank on that right away or don't depend on that, because it is a passion project for the most part. But this show had a little more of a corporate audience, a lot of those people that are really looking to try to get an ROI, not just from the podcast but about advertising, advertisements on podcasts and those of you that listen to the VO Boss podcast know that very recently I've been actually adding some advertisements on for my own business. Now we've been doing the VO Boss podcast for about eight years and I thought well gosh, maybe it's time that I do one or two. One or two, I mean you know you guys listen to my podcast.  05:17 I can tell you, hey, look, I also offer these things, but it's all about how do you measure success of a podcast. How do you measure if you have ads running in your podcast? Are they effective? Are people listening to the ads or are they fast forwarding through the ads? And so the overall feel that I got from the conference is that there's so many different platforms right now there's. You know how do you listen to your podcast? Is it on Apple podcast, is it on Spotify, is it on YouTube?  05:43 And they all have their own measurements, their own stats, and so what advertisers want to know is how many people are listening to your podcast, and sometimes that's really difficult to tell unless you have the statistics. And then these statistics don't all come together so that you can say, overall I have 1 million downloads, or I know from my service provider, my RSS feed provider, how many downloads I have, and that can give you a fairly decent number. But again, they've changed the way that they've measured those stats as well. So a lot of times the corporations or the people that are advertising want to know how can I get ROI on this investment if I'm going to spend money for ads and the other thing which is really important is that there's a lot of people that do ads on podcasts and they sound very different from the podcast, right, because we've got you and me just bantering back and forth and then all of a sudden they've got hey, it's allergy season.  06:38 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) What happens?  06:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is, the podcast host doesn't necessarily do voiceover for a living, so what they might read might sound a little stilted, so that was really interesting to understand that. Okay, I understand how I might be able to serve them by doing ads or by helping them do their ads better, that kind of a thing, but it was really wonderful to just sit and listen and learn oh my gosh for four days all about the things that I've been doing for eight years on this podcast, and a lot of it was very validating.  07:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And now the one you went to was in DC. Right, that sounds like a really large a really big one. Did you find that there were people that you could meet? That really helped you understand the road to sponsorship? And the understanding of, like, how you sell ads and how you get into that place because I think that's where a lot of early entry podcasters fall down is like they can create a great program and they can get it launched and it sounds terrific, but what happens next?  07:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the thing is is that you really need listenership, you really need people who follow. I mean, everybody refers to Joe Rogan, right? Of course, if you're an advertiser, you want to advertise on Joe Rogan's, but when you're first starting out, you need to first of all make sure that your content if you have a podcast and I think every voice talent should have a podcast, because, gosh, we're equipped for it, we have like really great sound already, and so it just makes sense that if you are a voice actor, it doesn't cost you anything necessarily except for your time right now. If you have a passion, talk about that. I mean, over and over and over again, what I heard as the theme is that podcasters are storytellers and guess what, so are voice actors. Yes, so if you have a topic that you're passionate about, I think you can start a podcast on.  08:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean it doesn't have to be about voiceover. Now, when you go into podcasting because I've been doing podcasting for a number of years as well the question is you go into it because you love it, you have a passion for it, you want to educate, you want to tell a story, mm-hmm. But how do people know when and if they're ready to monetize? That's a big question. I think in the podcast world, absolutely, you've been doing it for eight years.  08:46 That's a long time to do a podcast while you're running a business and while you're doing everything in your life yeah. So when and if you should monetize how that happens.  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, that's a really great question and that is, like I swear it's the question on everybody's mind, even at this conference, like how do you monetize? I mean, what are the questions that get answered right in podcast? What are the big questions of the day? The big question is how do I know who's listening? Right? How do I track my downloads? How do I grow my podcast? That's the other question, asking the same questions, right, because it is such a popular medium.  09:23 When you get somebody like I'm going to say, joe Rogan or any of the more celebrity podcasts where you get a lot of people's ears right, listening, that is an opportunity to sell and so, while the logistics aren't necessarily quite there yet, you have to showcase that number one. You've got listenership. You've got listenership, you've got a following. Now VO Boss has a following, and it's a very faithful following, because, for me, when I was telling people about my podcast, I would say, okay, I have been a podcast for eight years and while my numbers may not be, I do have close to a million downloads. I mean very close to it.  09:57 Actually, I haven't looked in the last few months, so I probably have a million downloads, but it's over a course of time, right, and so what advertisers want to know is how many downloads per episode are you getting, and that kind of gives them an idea of how many ears they have listening to their potential ads. And then, of course, it has to be on the effectiveness of the ad, and I had an interview with Steve Pogac, who is with SiriusXM and Pandora, talking about podcast ads. It's kind of the new area where advertisers are really interested because they've got potential ears to do the selling. Again, it's just you've got to be able to prove to those advertisers that you have downloads, and so right now you have to use the methods that are with you. I mean, there are separate methods. Apple has their own stats, spotify has their own stats, youtube- has their own stats.  10:46 And what's interesting is that while we're doing this now on video right, whereas before we were strictly audio we're now also on video. So it's kind of like, well, let's use YouTube and put shorts out there, which is it was good, that was validation for me I heard that again and again was to use YouTube for shorts to kind of draw your audience into the audio podcast.  11:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that when you think about like discussion about synthetic voices.  11:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, we're in the wild wild west. Well, guess what? We're in the wild wild west of advertising and podcasting. Right, and seeing if podcasting is a popular medium, we know about that. We know that as voice actors we are primed to be great podcasters, because we've got the technical worked out already for the most part. Right, we've got the technical. And if you've studied enough, you know how to storytell. You know how to storytell, you can certainly transition to any kind of ads really well. And of course, there's the other thing. Law and I know you'll like this is that there's a lot of ads that are done with improv. Celebrity endorsements do a ton of improv while they're doing the advertisements.  11:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Isn't that cool.  11:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's another skill that voice actors have, so it really translates well and, if nothing else, right. It costs you your time and, as you and I have discovered, right and I've discovered, after eight years of having this podcast and you since you've come on with me, people now say oh my gosh, I love listening to you guys.  12:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right.  12:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like they met you by listening to you on the podcast. That's absolutely a way to reach out to potential clients or potential people, no question.  12:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Fantastic and I can say personally that you know, in the last two years, or however long we've been working together on the podcast, god, how long has it been? Almost two years, I think.  12:23 It might be longer when I'm flying around and people come up to me and say I love your podcast. For a second I'm like, oh, the VO boss. They're like, yeah, you girls are great. It's a weird thing if you're not used to it, because there's that disconnect, there's that sense of disconnect from your audience that you know the audience is there, you see them, they're there, but if you're not meeting them, yeah and you don't know them, you may not hear back from them, the feedback you may not hear back from them.  12:53 It's really incredible.  12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the engagement. A lot of it was talking about engagement and again, so many parallels to voice so many parallels so many parallels. You have to engage your audience and I'm going to tell you. One of the things about podcasting is that we engage people through audio right and or video, if people are watching us, if they like to see the two of us talk to each other. It's all about engaging and being interesting, and it's either educational or it's entertaining, right? No?  13:20 - Intro (Announcement) question Whenever.  13:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was watching a presentation on the stage with any well-known podcaster when they were speaking about that podcast, it was all about their storytelling and it was all about how it was their passion to talk about a particular subject, something that they loved, they were passionate about, and that's what caused and everybody's like.  13:40 Well, how do you go viral? Right, I mean, there is no magic solution to going viral. I think a lot of it is being engaging right with your audience, and then you got to get it in front of your audience's eyes, very similar to our own businesses, right? So how do you grow your podcast audience the same way you grow your business and voice acting? Right, you've got to get yourself in front of the eyes of your potential clients or your potential listeners. So it was really so wonderful to be validated in so many different areas, because a lot of times, like you said, we're podcasting out into the air and I don't always hear anything about it unless I speak to someone and they say, oh my God, I love your podcast or I love what you said about this.  14:19 And what's really cool is then you get the benefit, you reap the rewards of being an instrument and being able to hopefully motivate and inspire somebody.  14:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's incredible and you and I we get letters like all the time, literally every single month, that says I just want to let you know that I can't get in my booth on a Saturday morning without listening to the podcast and hearing your motivation and hearing what you have to say and on the most literal basis, you don't realize what kind of impact you can make on someone's life by just speaking and speaking a truth and speaking an experience that is maybe common to their experience, or maybe the next level to their experience, when they're stuck and they don't know where to go.  15:04 It's incredibly powerful and I'm just honored to be a part of that. But I think you scared a lot of people when you said, or reminded us because this is not a new thing that we're also on video too. We're also on camera as well, because a lot of voiceover talent traditionally went into voiceover so that they wouldn't be on camera. They say, with all due respect, I don't want to put makeup on, I don't want to look good, I've got the face for radio.  15:28 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) I don't want to look good, right.  15:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And I said no, no, you can't look at it that way any longer, because you've got to market your business, your podcast, your voice, and you have to do that on video now.  15:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you think about it and this is the trend, right, also, like on camera work, right, it's not about you don't have to be beautiful and young and pretty and handsome anymore.  15:47 It's all about authenticity, it's all about being able to engage with your audience, and so we invite right the perfectly imperfect, perfectly imperfect I want to hear and see like imperfections, because I know that I'm not alone, right, when that happens, and that's for on camera, that's for audio, that's all of that Just being able to be authentic and really communicate and reach out to your audience, just like we have to do being voice actors. It's becoming more and more and more prevalent every day. That that's really what we have to do, I mean, and that's what we like, I mean as humans, like, why do you think reality shows became so popular? I mean, it wasn't about the perfection of people on a sitcom or a drama or you know, it was real people and we're real people and we can talk about real things, and so if you guys are thinking about a podcast, please gosh don't.  16:41 We don't need another voiceover podcast, I don't know Exactly.  16:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Talk about something that you're passionate about, that you can engage with other people, and it shouldn't be any surprise that, you know, when we're auditioning as voiceover talent and we see that breakdown of relatable and real and conversational. Well, that's what we want to see as well.  17:02 If we're seeing the visual of you. We don't want to see you on as the 70s announcer, nor do we want to see you on as the supermodel of the 80s or 90s. Really, the real person works more often as an actor and talent than the aesthetically beautiful person according to the industry, and gets cast more often because it really represents the demographic of the people.  17:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure Right. It cuts through the chaos of something being like anticipated or expected or stereotypical right.  17:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's an empathy factor too. I mean, I want to see someone who kind of is me. There's a deeply psychological aspect to everything we see and hear in entertainment. I would gather that a lot of folks and I ask them. When they talk to me about your podcast, I say why do you like it? Why do you follow it? What is it doing for you? They say I feel like you are me, I feel like you understand me, I feel like you're almost in my head, Right Like the voice in my head, and I think, oh, that's a lot of responsibility. I better be careful what I say. Isn't that true? It is true when you talk about influencers.  18:13 I always think of the influencer as like the young Gen Z or the young, young millennial who's on social media, but that's really not true. The influencer is anyone right who is out there in the public square and really is connecting to their audience. They can have very powerful influence, positive and negative. So be careful what you say, be careful how you present yourself, be careful and just be thoughtful about it, because you can impact a lot of people. Now, from a marketing perspective, that's great, because for the people that don't know anything about marketing or are a little scared of it, you know you can have a huge influence on people just by being visible.  18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it just amazed me the amount of parallels. You think I would have figured this out by now, but it was good reinforcement as I went to this conference. So I highly highly encourage you, if you can get out there, listen, find the people that you're trying to sell to, if you can get to a conference. Conferences are great because I had presentations to go to and I also had vendor booths that I could visit, right, and so the interaction. I really listened to the interactions in both instances and I noticed that when people were on stage talking about something they were passionate about, you know, I have this little pet peeve about millennials have a potential to upspeak and I'm always telling people when we're doing corporate please don't upspeak, because it makes you sound a little less confident, and I want you to be confident about your product. So, when there was the occasion for me to go to a booth and speak to someone about their product, right, and I encountered a millennial, yes, upspeak is alive and well. However, when that same millennial was up on stage and this happened on more than one occasion, right, no matter who was up on stage talking, discussing, interviewing, interacting and speaking about their passion there was absolutely no up speak. Maybe once in a while there was one word or two, but nothing that was consistent, Because I think it presented a different kind of situation and I think that as actors we need to always read those situations, like, perhaps for a commercial, you're going to have that kind of casual engagement where upspeak is absolutely desired, but maybe in another instance you need to sound more authoritative about that product or confident that you're sure that it's going to help someone and therefore maybe upspeak isn't as appropriate.  20:35 So that was just an interesting little tidbit and, trust me, I listen really hard because, you know, I'm a coach, I want to be a better coach and so I want to be able to communicate with my potential client better. So first and foremost is listen. And you guys, even if you can't get to a conference, you can do this online, right, you can join groups that are not necessarily just voiceover groups. You can join e-learning groups, you can join a company newsletter, look at how the company talks to their potential clients, and then you can just really learn about in what situation and how you might talk, the tone of voice that you might use, the emotion that goes along with it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a brand that's a little more serious and a little more formal, a little more suit and tie kind of thing, and you adjust your performance accordingly.  21:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Now, you were talking earlier to me, before we started recording about at the podcast forum. They were talking about memberships and I thought that was very fascinating, thinking about creating content and how you can get your subscription base or membership base going with supplying that content. What did you learn from that one? What did you take away on that?  21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) one. So that was advertisers, who again were looking to monetize, right, and so until they felt that people have the capability of fast-forwarding through an ad that might be on the podcast, However, if they need to subscribe or have a membership in order to get to that content, if let's say the content is valuable and it's something I've thought about doing for VIA Boss having a certain amount of episodes that are bonus content, which then help fund the cost, because, as we know, and as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our and, as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our time. And then I literally have a team of people that help me to distribute this podcast and put show notes up there, to advertise it on social media. There's just lots and lots of components to the spokes in the wheel, whatever you might call it, but there's a lot of things at play here and it's not free.  22:34 So it's helpful to be able to recoup some of those costs and even monetize the living, make a little bit of money, because I mean, this is our time and we do talk about all the time. Law right, we need to charge what we're worth. If somebody said to me well, do you feel bad charging for a podcast when most people can listen for free? Well, you know, honestly, I've been doing it for eight years. I've given over 400 episodes for free. To be quite honest, if somebody wanted to donate three to five dollars, maybe a month.  23:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I don't think that's unreasonable, I think it's fantastic. I think it's a great idea and makes total, total sense. I have a feeling that's something that a lot of podcasters are going to be doing. They're going to be interested in doing that, mm hmm, because no one really realizes except for you, annie, how much goes into it until they start doing it.  23:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Until they do it.  23:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh, I'll just talk. You know it's the old voiceover, read a paper and talk, but they don't really realize to produce something, yeah, something of value, something specific, something that has guests, something that has planning. Producing engineering it costs, it's an investment. Yeah, engineering it costs, it's an investment?  23:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And getting yourself out of your bubble and going out and really researching the market in which you want to sell, I think is so, so, very helpful for our businesses so that we can grow and serve those businesses and voice acting. This whole industry is evolving, like as we speak, minute by minute. Things are happening on the AI and synthetic end of things in the market. The economy has a lot to do with it and we really need to understand what's happening out there and evolve along with what our clients are asking for so that we can serve them better, because we can have a great voice. But if we don't know how to serve somebody with that voice or how to help them solve their problems, then we kind of sit here just having a great voice, exactly.  24:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Which is great.  24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you know, then you and I can just talk with our great voices, but it may not get us anywhere. It may not pay the bills Very true, In which case? By the way, even if you don't get advertisers right away in your podcast, the fact remains that you are putting yourself out there, you're putting your brand out there, and that is a form of marketing all in of itself.  24:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do you have tips, annie, for people who want to either start a podcast or who are early like within the first year of doing their podcast of what they should be thinking about or be planning for, so that they don't fall into any holes along the way?  24:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a great question. The one thing that you absolutely have to be concrete on right now is kind of like your why, like why do you want a podcast and what is your topic and is it something that you can sustain? Because consistency once you get people who start listening, they expect consistency. It's like look on my run every morning I want to be able to turn on the latest podcast of right, or I want to be able to. It becomes a thing. So content creators, like everywhere, know how it's difficult to create content. It takes a lot of time.  25:29 So figure out what it is that you want to talk about, what it is that you can consistently deliver on a regular basis to an audience. And one thing I definitely found out is that these kind of serial podcasts that only have like six to eight episodes they don't do well. They don't do well with advertisers. Advertisers don't want to invest in that because they can't expect a great return on investment. It's got to be something where your audience can grow, where you can continue to get the ear of the listener, and so really try to find your why. Try to find whatever it is that you want to talk about and then be consistent about it Now. You don't have to hire out like I do right now for my podcast. I mean, I did everything on my own to begin with, and so you can start simple and commit to what you can do and make it a priority that you deliver consistently, consistently, consistently.  26:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that. So it doesn't have to be constant, it's just consistent, yeah, absolutely, which makes a lot of sense. And being authentic, yeah, and really caring about what your audience cares, about the pain points they have, what problems they have to solve and connect to Right. And also I would add into that that like what style you want that podcast to be in Do you?  26:43 want to have a lot of humor. Is it very serious? Is it meditative, is it calming, like, think about the kind of style that you want to have, and are you having guests on, or is it really you speaking from your point of view? I mean, these are just kind of basic things that we have to be thinking about it from the beginning. Also, how long Like you and I are really consistent about our time, we typically go about 25 minutes per episode.  27:08 Like how long can you talk? How long do you want to speak about your?  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) topic. I mean, gosh, some are hours long. You know what I mean. Some of the best video ones are hours long where there's something visual to look at, and I think Joe Rogan's is, I don't know, an hour or two hours. I have not listened recently, but really I mean we try to keep ours. I think the stats say anywhere from about this time 30 minutes, but honestly, I think it depends on the content and what you're talking about and just really feel that out and try to make that consistent as well.  27:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, you know, thanks for bringing this to our attention, because this is a world. It's not a new world, but it's an ever-growing world. Yes, absolutely, and it's becoming complex and very nuanced. And it's something that a lot of talent of all different backgrounds really want to know about and want to be doing and be plugged into it.  27:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So this is kind of exciting news and I'm excited because I got another podcast that's formulating on the back end. So stay tuned, guys. Something new is coming along for me and I'm very excited. Probably be launching that sometime I don't know later this year, so look for that and I'm very excited.  28:10 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Keep growing, keep expanding, keep creating and keep developing that's really the name of the game, isn't it? Absolutely? Throughout your lifetime, Fabulous.  28:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thanks, law, good conversation. Thanks for asking me about it. I had a great experience and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  28:39 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

This episode is all about maximizing your business potential, whether you're just starting out or already established in the market.  Learn how to leverage casting platforms for direct bookings and master direct marketing strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights to increase your return on investment. Implementing mid-year performance reviews can be a game-changer for your business, using powerful tools like cash flow spreadsheets and client churn reports to meticulously track your financials and client engagement. Discover the added value of integrating financial data to set and achieve your financial goals, ensuring sustained success. Explore how to turn one-off projects into recurring gigs and the crucial role of tracking booking sources. Learn how to use social media, direct emails, and client referrals to build a solid client base. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, who says marketing can't be as creative as voice acting? With a VO Boss Blast, we're proving it can be. Let us create a marketing campaign that helps get you hired. Our master list of over 90,000 creative contacts can get your message in front of your potential buyers. Find out more at vobosscom. That's the VO Boss Blast at voboss.com. That's the Voboss Blast at Voboss.com.  00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a Voboss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the illustrious Mr Tom Dheere.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello, hello, oh, I'm illustrious now this is very exciting.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You are illustrious, you are illustrious. Oh my gosh Tom, how's your week been?  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) My week's been. It's been pretty good. It's been pretty busy. It's one of those weird times of year this is early summer when we're recording this and people are at schools getting out and people are starting to figure out. You know they get their lighting up their vacations and all that stuff.  01:25 So you know, I'm using this time to capitalize on how I'm going to figure out what I'm going to be doing with the second half of my year, because I always, at the end of the halfway point of the year, I take a look at my voiceover business, see how it's doing, what's working and what isn't, and if I need to make any adjustments for the second half of the year.  01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's an excellent idea because, as a matter of fact, I was just this week. I got an email from my email service provider who notified me that they were going to increase the cost of my yearly fee almost like one and a half times as much, and so I was like, oh, I've got to really sit back and take a look at my return on investment, and so I think that is something that bosses need to do absolutely to make sure that their businesses are on track and make sure that their growth is happening. And if it doesn't appear that it is happening, maybe how do you evaluate growth that can happen in the future?  02:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So, yeah, Okay, so, oh, there's so much to talk about with this one. But, bosses, if there's one thing I want you to walk away with, is that the industry changes constantly. What used to work may not work as well as it used to, or it may not work at all anymore. In my 25 years of being in the voiceover industry, effectiveness is really the key to be a voice actor, and learning what it takes to become effective early in your journey as opposed to what's effective later on in your voiceover journey.  02:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like mailing CDs to potential clients. I just had to say that which I did, which I did.  02:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So did I. Let me tell you, my post office hated me so much because I'd come in with a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like oh.  03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I used to have to walk to my voiceover studio for 10 miles in the snow.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sorry, Uphill both ways.  03:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Uphill Anyways. So yeah, how do we determine how effective our businesses are and how do we strategize moving forward?  03:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. The ultimate determiner is like how much money am I making? And it's like, okay, did I make more money than I did last year or week or quarter? So that's obviously an indicator. But that's a very broad brushstroke because, like I've noticed over the years, because I track my voiceover revenue meticulously, gig to gig, Doesn't surprise me, Tom. I know right. Not surprising that the VO strategist meticulously tracks his voiceover revenue.  03:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Well, me too, but I have my accountant that has probably more of a hand in it than me, and then she'll report to me if I need to know things.  03:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So one thing I do like to do what's called a client churn report. So basically I look at the end of every quarter, I look at how many gigs did I have, how much money did I make, how many of them were from new clients, how many of them were from return clients, and then I look at the same quarter from the previous year to see if the amount of money new clients and old clients went up, went down or stayed the same.  04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you what are you recording that data into? Do you have?  04:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) a CRM Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a?  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) CRM. Do you have a CRM? Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a CRM or do you have a spreadsheet?  04:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) That I do in a spreadsheet because I have a cash flow spreadsheet which tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny, that goes out of my voiceover business. It's a free download at voestrategistcom. You can just type in free in the search bar and you can find it and download it. It and you can find it and download it. It also helps you run reports. It's got little auto sums and I've got little formulas in there so it can help track your stuff.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's awesome, tom, and can that be integrated? Like would I be able to export reports from my QuickBooks and be able to import, do you think into that's a?  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) great question. It may require some reformatting.  04:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Finagling.  05:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) And a little finagling, but actually I'm so glad this came up. When it comes to analyzing your voiceover business, that cash flow spreadsheet does so many things. It tracks all the money that I make. I also list all of my revenue and expense goals for the month, the quarter and the year. But here's the other fun thing that it does I have little columns where I have little codes. So, for example, there are three what I call portals in the voiceover industry. I'm sure I've talked about this before Representation, online casting sites and self-marketing which includes inbound and outbound marketing.  05:34 So every time I book a voiceover gig, in that column I write down whether it was RE, which it was a gig I booked through my representation, if it's OC, through an online casting site, either free or pay-to-play, like Voice123. And then the last one is S-M, or self-marketing, which means did it happen as a result of a cold call or a cold email, or indirect? Is it a result of someone finding me on Google?  05:59 Or was I referred to that client by a fellow voice actor or a fellow client, because I have clients who refer me to clients all the time and so whenever I type that in, there's a little section to the side of the spreadsheet that has, by revenue and by percentage, how much money I'm making based on the portal that I'm doing. It also does it for genre. I have a column for genres e-learning, commercial, industrial.  06:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's awesome. I love this. And you say that this is a free download.  06:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a free download, that's awesome, that's a great tracker. Yeah, because it lets me know just how I'm doing with the genre of voiceover, because you can break it down by genre and you can also break it down by portal. But I'm not getting all my e-learning through one portal and I'm not getting all my explainers through one portal.  06:44 Because sometimes I'll get an explainer through one of my reps. It's rare but it happens. But I'll get a lot of e-learning through online casting sites and self-marketing, so to be able to really look and see how my voiceover business is doing and be able to go to last year's spreadsheet and see how it's doing I love that, tom.  07:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you have a free resource. I have to. I'm sorry I didn't have to exclaim that and interrupt you and say that, because I will tell you that I created a spreadsheet myself when I started to track auditions, to track jobs that I booked. It is a thing you do have to remember to put the information in, but it was very, very valuable to find out and I'll tell you, I love a person who can really work a spreadsheet, because you've got it all figured out already, yeah, and you've got the columns there. I mean, bosses, take advantage of this. We're going to put a link in the show notes. Okay, continue, tom. I'm sorry.  07:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) I got so excited.  07:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had to interrupt you.  07:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, yeah, I've been building this spreadsheet for 20 years.  07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I think 2004,.  07:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) 2005 is when I first built this spreadsheet first built this spreadsheet, so I'm looking at it right now.  07:43 So yeah, genre so like. For example, so far this year, 23.8% of my voiceover revenue has come from e-learning. But also I do it as the VO strategist. So it also tells me how many 15 minute consults I've booked, how many one-on-one coaching sessions I've done, how many conference appearances, how many mentorship sessions, how many people bought my videos at the VO strategist. So I use it for both as a voice actor and both as the VO Strategist, because this is tracking all the money.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good, I'm going to download it to track and ganguza business. However, I will say that there's reports that are generated off of QuickBooks or whatever your accounting software is, but I like that you have the added columns. Like I can't add a column in QuickBooks that says where did you book the job?  08:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I probably could, but I haven't done that that's why I stopped using all the accounting software in most of the CRMs, because it wasn't giving me the data that I need. Also this is a running total that I can see on my screen all at the same time. Here's another one no-transcript.  08:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody talks about that.  08:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) I believe it's one of the most useless data points there is, and here's the reason, and you know this.  09:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to agree with you, but I want to hear your reason.  09:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) The reason why is because the casting process is so random and arbitrary.  09:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because the best voice actor does not always get the gig, get the gig.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Host) And the best audition doesn't always get the gig. Like there's a great documentary called that Guy who was in that thing? And it's about 12 character actors in Hollywood and you know all their faces but you don't know any of their names and they talk about what it's like being a character actor on TV and film in Hollywood and one of them talks about the absurdity of the casting process and he says something like one week I'll get a gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  09:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then two weeks later, I won't get the gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely so.  09:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) we have no earthly idea what the thought process is behind a voice seeker. There's another story of how a woman cast a male voice actor and she was asked why did you cast that person? And she said he sounds like my father.  10:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then, upon further conversation, she said I trust my father.  10:10 So, that means A I trust my father. B I want a trusting sound, for this voiceover equals C. I want someone to do this voiceover who sounds like my father Absolutely. But what if her father sounds like Gilbert Gottfried or Bobcat Goldthwait and they probably have kids? I know Gilbert Gottfried had kids, I don't know about Bobcat but and I'm sure if their children hear their voice it's a trusting I'm going to be okay, I'm safe. But that doesn't work for the rest of the universe.  10:40 Absolutely so, that's why that's kind of an absurd thing to analyze.  10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I just want to tailgate off of that really quickly. I don't want to get off the track of what's my ROI. However, that's why you don't self-sabotage yourself if you thought, well, I did a great audition and I didn't book the gig, or I'm not good enough, don't let that feed into. I mean, of course, you want to be a great performer and a great actor. That always gives you, I think, the most competitive advantage. However, the casting process is wild and crazy, and anybody that's taken an audition demolition class with Law and myself we've done, I believe, six of them so far. By the way, you can check them out on the VO Boss YouTube channel if you want to watch one.  11:20 Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you receive a job, and so I agree with you there that tracking that is not always going to give you the most useful information. However, I know people will be like, well, my booking ratio on Voice123 or my booking ratio on Voicescom. Again, in reality, all you can do, I think, is validate that you have ample opportunities, right, right, right. And within those opportunities, it would be nice if you, on average, booked a certain percentage, but again, I wouldn't let that dictate whether that is a good return on investment, would you agree?  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) It doesn't necessarily dictate your worth as a voice actor.  11:57 What it can dictate for the pay-to-play sites in particular, anne, is how effectively are you feeding the algorithms to give you the casting opportunities that you want, that you're right for, and are you effectively auditioning for the casting notices that those algorithms served up? So, with that in mind, I do track my booking ratio on Voice123. I have the $2,200 tier, so I have the second highest tier. So obviously I want to make sure there's a return on my investment. However, the number is skewed because I I'll give you a perfect example Two years ago on Voice123, I booked a gig.  12:34 I did an audition. It was for a grocery store chain doing an internal video about produce. I think it was about bananas. You know, like, if you work in their produce department, here's how to make sure the bananas, how not to bruise them, how to check them for quality, how to display them properly, how to rotate out bananas that are going to expire or whatever. And it was one gig $550 for like a three-minute in-house thing, directed session took all of 15 minutes. It's like okay, perfect. A month later they needed one on shrimp. A month later they needed one on avocados.  13:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did not audition for those. You didn't have to audition, but you got the job. Yes, right, the recurring client.  13:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) But if I wasn't on Voice123, I would not have gotten that casting opportunity.  13:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The majority of my work, too, is a lot of referral clients. Referrals and or clients that I got because I'm on pay-to-plays but not on a certain subscription level just because of my schedule, and so therefore I can't really count that. But I still get, believe it or not, if my profile is up there, every once in a while I will get a direct job, and then that client will come back.  13:35 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, right. So, with that in mind, on the spreadsheet, the cash flow spreadsheet, I do have a new column where I track audition bookings versus direct bookings.  13:45 Oh, okay, so audition bookings versus direct bookings. Oh okay. So how much did I get? Was this an audition and pray gig or was this a legacy client gig? So, just as an example as of this conversation, my direct booking percentage is 79% and my audition booking is 21%, which means roughly 80-20. Four out of every five bookings that I get, I didn't have to audition for them. Now, that is something that a lot of voice actors.  14:10 Yeah, that tells me something about my business model and it tells me about my effectiveness in marketing, about my effectiveness in auditioning and my effectiveness in client retention, because it's one thing to book a client once, it's another thing to book a client twice, and it's another thing to book a client a few times a year for years and I have a couple clients.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I have some clients I've worked with for decades, myself too, and I don't audition for them.  14:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Some of them I never auditioned for in the first place, I just sent them the demo and then they're like, okay, great, and they here's your first gig work, which is right, that's the best kind of client, isn't it? That's a regular client, the one that you don't have to market to or audition for. However, audition and pray, I think, should be part of a balanced breakfast of all voice actors, whether it's through their agents, or through a casting site, or whether it's through their marketing strategy.  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Agreed Because auditioning and pray I mean. First of all, it gets you exposed to potential new clients in a multitude of ways. Because, first of all, if the agent hears you continually submitting good auditions, they might refer you to someone or they might shortlist you. Even if the client doesn't pick you, or if the client hears the audition and they may not cast you this time, they may save you for a future casting or come back to you for a different casting.  15:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Here's another example. So for you VO bosses who have or are considering working with Anne, you decide you want to work with Anne. You want to get e-learning coaching. You may have been in the business for a little while. You may have gotten a smattering of e-learning gigs here and there, but now you want to really hunker down, get some quality training, get a quality demo, come up with a quality marketing strategy. So you work with Ann, you get your e-learning coaching, you produce a spectacular e-learning demo and then, of course, then we say Ann, what do I do now? And then she talks to you about marketing strategies. So you start to market that demo. The other thing you do is you put that demo on your website. So you come up with a marketing campaign. I'm going to put this demo on my website. I'm going to build a list of potential e-learning clients and if you have already done some e-learning work, it's supplemented by the work you've already gotten from existing e-learning clients and then you put it out there. Direct email.  16:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Direct email through a boss blast. Put it out there.  16:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Direct email, direct email through a boss blast or direct email for cold calling, exactly, posting it on social media, talking to people on LinkedIn, so on and so forth. That's where this spreadsheet and your analytics can be an extremely powerful tool, because you can decide all right, this e-learning marketing campaign is going to take one month, so the first of the month the page the e-learning landing page goes live, and then you start through the VO Boss Blast. You start scheduling and sending emails to potential current and past e-learning clients. You post content on social media, you do things on LinkedIn. Maybe you record a video on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube talking about the demo or your experience with Ann or any part of your journey which is a part of helping people see your humanity.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, with any good coach right, I will if you provide a testimonial page. I also put demos on my YouTube channel, so there's the marketing that happens through that as well. So you're getting potential opportunities as well as my own referrals to you.  17:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so you do all of that stuff and then at the end of the month, now you can figure out.  17:32 These are the analytics, so you can obviously go to your website, regardless of where the website was built. You should have some form of dashboard where you can look at how many times did people visit your e-learning landing page, how many times did they listen to your e-learning demo, how many times did they download? Because remember, that's the most important part of a campaign like this is to get downloads. You want people to download your e-learning demo and have it on file for when a project comes up that you would be right for. They have that demo on hand because they're not going to remember you and they're not going to remember your website. It may not be bookmarked. That's why most voice seekers and Anne may agree that most of them have a folder, a file of digital shoebox of some sort that has a pile of demos. Absolutely, and when a project comes along, because the odds of you emailing somebody your demo and the odds that they have a project that you're perfect for.  18:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At that time Extremely slim. It's all about timing.  18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, it's all about timing.  18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I just did a teachable moment all about timing. Like you just don't know when people are going to need or require your service and you can't expect that just because you got the demo yesterday that there are all these people that need something today.  18:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So you have to manage your expectations by the analytics. So should it be e-learning bookings in that one month? I don't think that would be fair to you because it's extremely unlikely. What you can look at is how many times did they go to your website, how many times did they listen to that demo? How many times did they download that demo? How many emails were opened and clicked on?  18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You brought up a really good point. Is that? Okay? So a boss blast. You can go to the VO boss page to find out more about the Boss Blast. But the Boss Blast is simply allowing to cast the net out into a potential audience that could have a need, and you don't know exactly at what time that need is. So there's that direct marketing from the Boss Blast. But also I love the point that you brought up about the website.  19:23 Bosses, you have a website, it is a tool, it is your storefront. It is your responsibility to have enough knowledge about that tool so that you can go find out, like did somebody download my demo? How many times has the page been visited? Right? Because, just as there is with the Boss Blast, we have statistics. I can work with you, like when we send out a campaign, we have all the stats, we know who it was sent to, we know who opened it and we know who clicked. Now, once they get to your website right, they can click either the demo that's there or they can click on your website, and so once they do that, that's it. I just know that they've gone to your website.  20:00 Now, on your website, you need to be responsible for how many times has that been downloaded, how many times has that page been visited? And that can really help to see who's listening to your demo and what your booking ratio could be after that. And so those stats are important to know. So if you do not know how to access the back end of your website and we will have a podcast probably very shortly on just websites you must make it a point to educate yourself, and if you've had a website designer that did that for you, then you must either ask them how do you find out these stats right? Can they set up Google to actually allow you to see those stats, so when people visit your website, that you can find those stats and just know that, even if you may not be technically minded, you should really educate yourself on how to find that information out. That's important stuff to know. Sorry, I'm on my soapbox there, but gosh, it's so important.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Host) No, that's amazing advice, Anne. Now here's the next part about this is here's some real life, practical real life experience that I have had this year is that one of the genres that I've been focusing on in 2024 is political. Over $10 billion is being spent on political marketing and advertising this year, so I updated my political demo. I've already had a list of political contacts because I've been marketing myself as a political voice actor since 2022.  21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you direct marketing yourself, or are you on a roster as well?  21:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Both, I'm on rosters, but I'm also direct marketing. I did a direct marketing, I did a direct marketing email blast, updated my political landing page and I sent out, I'd say over the past month and a half, roughly 150 emails to production companies that are dedicated to and specialize in creating political content radio, tv, digital streaming that require a voice actor. And do you want to guess how many replies I got to this?  21:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) email of 150?. Oh, I can imagine.  21:54 - Tom Dheere (Host) I can imagine the answer is zero, zero Now. At first I freaked out.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But did you get hired?  22:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) No.  22:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, okay, not yet.  22:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay. So the question is what's going on? So, after some reflection and talking to other political voice actor friends, is they are so busy. These political production companies are so busy they do not have the time to open, much less read, any of my emails, much less click on the link download the demo or reply.  22:26 They don't have the time because everything has gone bananas this year, so because the debates have started the conventions are starting soon and then everybody's going to go crazy, from the presidential election all the way down to dog catcher and everything in between. However, I do have some existing clients who just send me work. They're like hey, here's another one, Can you do it today? Hey, I've got these five spots. I need them by first thing in the morning.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is that going to stop you from sending a direct email in the?  22:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) future? No, not at all.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wanted you to make that point.  22:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because this particular genre at this particular time of year. I have now, through experience, learned to manage my expectations about what's going to happen Because, like nowadays, if you're doing a direct marketing email, if you're getting one, to 2% of people replying to you, you're doing good, that's awesome.  23:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's what I tell my boss blast people yes, if you're getting one to 2% click or open you used to look for. If you get a 10% open rate and then 1% click rate.  23:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Those days are over.  23:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Well, 1% is good. So, yeah, it's absolutely good. But there's still again if you know your audience and you know what to write to them, it's still effective. I would still say there are still people that open their emails and there's always that chance.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so the point is just because they didn't reply to your email. I guarantee there's a folder in their Gmail or their inbox where they just took that email and just dragged it into that folder.  23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, which is why when I go through stats with people because we will go through who opened it and who clicked on it but then after that you don't know what they're going to do with it and, honestly, unless you're hacking into their systems, you really don't know if they've put it into a folder or not. I love the fact that you also are mentioning that you have to manage your expectations. Again, it's about timing and managing expectations as well, but that initial data can really help you to find out is it worth your investment?  24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So the aforementioned e-learning direct marketing campaign that you do from the Boss Blast yeah, looking at how many people opened it, how many people clicked on the demo, how many people downloaded the demo, which, if you're using a good CRM like there's a bunch of great CRMs out there which we could talk about in another conversation it can give you a good idea of what's going on.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't have to download the demo either. They could just play it. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing too. And they keep the email without downloading the demo.  24:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) So again, it's like everybody has different habits. Some people will save the email, not open it. Some people will save the email, open it. Some people save the email, open it. Click on the demo, listen to it, but not download it.  24:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Some people save the email and then forget about it right so that you need to consistently right every once in a while.  25:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, do a follow-up every few months. Do a follow-up in that top-of-mind email, right, Right. So the lesson here, bosses, is that analytics don't always tell the story. You can't live or die by your analytics, but at the end of a year I can look and go, okay. Here's a trend Right. Here's an example 2023, looking at the three portals. So last year, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from my representation, 49% came from online casting sites, 23% came through direct marketing strategies, 16% came through indirect marketing strategies.  25:38 Now, if you look at five years ago 2019, I had my representation percentage was one or 2%.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and I would say your pay to play your roster was high pay-to-play was non-existent because I wasn't a paid member of oh, that's right. At that time I took a long break because in the beginning I had a high percentage rate right, but my direct and indirect marketing strategy was like 81, but I also made 20% less in 2019 than I do in 2024.  26:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) So how did me going from focusing on direct and direct marketing to focusing on online casting sites, increase my representative percentage? What happened? What are the analytics? This is my theory. In 2019, I auditioned 450 times. The whole year 2023, I auditioned 1,854 times. I got better at auditioning. Voice123 made me a better auditioner because I got reps in. Also, it helped me keep a better idea on casting trends. What are people?  26:40 - Intro (Announcement) looking for.  26:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) How can I read a casting notice and match it up with who I am and what I can provide as a problem solver, as a voice actor? That fed into increasing the quality of my representation auditions. I got better auditioning on online casting sites and, by extension, I got better at auditioning for my reps. So that's why I went from like 1% or 2% in 2019 to, five years later, booking 12% of my revenue.  27:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I think it's kind of like goal setting right If you don't write it down. It's kind of like in your head you're like but I've auditioned, but I've sent my direct marketing email, or I've sent my emails and I've done my marketing, but in reality if you're not writing it down or recording it, it's really hard to track what you've done. I mean, it wasn't until I started tracking my auditions and where I was booking and it helped me to determine a genre. Oh, I should pursue more work in this area. There's so many things you can learn from it, from just recording it. So consider it like a goal right. Consider that document recording and gosh, it doesn't get any easier than downloading a free template from Tom.  27:42 - Intro (Announcement) Dheere's website.  27:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's for darn sure. I mean really. This has been such an enlightening conversation, tom. I mean the amount of information you can find out just by tracking your return on investment where are you auditioning, where are you spending your money, where are things happening can really inform you to make great decisions about how to evolve and how to move your business forward. So do it, guys. Download that document and understand that, yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll probably say that for every podcast that I work with with you, tom. I mean, I say that all the time, but you guys it is. Tom, thanks so much for your invaluable wisdom on this. I love that you're such a geek about all of this, and if anybody can produce a really cool spreadsheet, I'm sure it's Tom Dheere.  28:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am a happy mutant, so yeah.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network, connect and download documents like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, tom Bye.  28:40 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Val Kelly, the brains behind the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, joins Anne Ganguzza in a special BOSS preview of MAVO. The BOSSES discuss Val's journey into voiceover, the challenges and lessons learned from organizing the conference, and the evolution of MAVO over the years. Her passion for the craft is evident as she discusses creating her own company to champion voice actors, offering a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of hosting a successful conference. The BOSSES shares insights on adapting to online events, the importance of providing educational resources for voice actors, and the exciting lineup of speakers and sessions planned for the upcoming conference. With a diverse lineup of guests, this year's conference is a great event for anyone looking to elevate their skills and overcome the industry's evolving challenges. VO BOSSES can save $75 by using the code VOBOSS at checkout when purchasing your MAVO tickets 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketing, coaching and demo production. That gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and happy to be here with a very special guest voice actor and owner, president and very boss CEO of the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, Val Kelly. Yay, hey, hi, val, it's so wonderful to have you here today.  01:08 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh, thanks so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate it.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I'll tell you what I am so excited to talk to you today. Number one, first of all. So what does it take to be boss and CEO, not only just being a voice actor I know a lot of people that listen to the Boss podcast for us to be successful voice actors, but you're also an educator, which I love, and also to run a conference. Now my husband I'll just say my husband works, he's an event manager for multiple companies for many years and I know what it takes to run an event and it's no small task. So I'm excited to talk to you about yourself and what it took for you to become such a CEO of such a great event, and I'm excited. I'm going to let you talk, I swear I'm excited because it's my first year presenting with Amevo. So I'm very excited to do that this year and I'm already planning my wardrobe.  02:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh my gosh, same same.  02:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, what am I going to wear? So I'm very excited how many outfit switches.  02:09 - Val Kelly (Guest) Am I going to have Right?  02:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) exactly what are my costume changes. So let's first talk about you and how you got started in voiceover, because I know that you still are teaching, correct, yeah?  02:23 - Val Kelly (Guest) So I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, nothing wrong with that, I'll tell you are teaching, correct?  02:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. I'll tell you Nothing wrong with that, and especially if you're teaching, because that's just near and dear to my heart.  02:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. So I got started in voiceover in. About 1999 was when I first kind of stuck my foot in it a little bit and I didn't really know what I was doing of course, because back then there were only a handful of people that were really booking work. So basically, I just took a class and you know they were like oh, you have a lot of talent. Of course, like that's. You know, the typical thing when you take a class. They're like, oh, you should definitely do this with your life, you know.  03:06 And you're like, oh great, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for telling me what I wanted to hear. And then I took a class with these people for six weeks and then I recorded my first demo after six weeks, which was totally crazy. I had no idea what I was doing and it was a commercial demo, so I also really just had no concept of the technique or anything about what I was supposed to be doing.  03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And probably even the industry, right? I mean being educators. Right, we know Like six weeks is really nothing. It may not have been every day for six weeks. Right that you were training. You were probably training once a week yeah.  03:40 - Val Kelly (Guest) No, it was like once a week yeah exactly Exactly.  03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, being educators, we know it takes a while to acquire skills.  03:57 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah for sure. But I mean fast forward to basically 2011, when I just had my second daughter and I never stopped thinking about voiceover and I just said to my husband you know, I really want to get back into this, like I feel like I have a lot of talent to offer to this industry and I just really want to try and make something of it. You know, not give up teaching because I had been teaching French for such a long time and that's a big part of who I am as a person.  04:19 But I wanted to add this creative side that I have. I wanted to offer that as well. So I started training with a studio in New York and then just kept training with them for a couple of years with multiple coaches and things like that, and then it was probably 2010. 12 or 13 that I went to Voice Over Atlanta for the first time and I met so many people I think that's actually the first time that I met you and I was just so impressed by that whole event and everything like that, and so that really opened a lot of doors for me in the Voice Over world. I started booking more stuff after I went to that event and then a few more years passed and I just thought there's something here, like in this mid-Atlantic region, that's missing, you know, and I want to give back to the community in a way that's going to be helpful for other voice actors.  05:16 So I was flying to France actually on a trip, and I said to my best friend on the flight I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like, okay, he's like maybe you should get some best friend on the flight. I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like okay, he's like maybe you should get some more sleep on this flight. And I was like, no, but seriously. And he's like, oh, can we talk about this when we get to France? So the whole trip I was, you know, working and everything like that. It was for work, but I was also thinking, like, you know, I have a lot of ideas, like maybe I could really pull this together. So in 2014, I started Minute Landing VoiceOver and it was a real eye-opener, that first event with 28 people showed up for it.  05:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you know Was your initial idea with your company? Was it to do specifically just the event, or was it just to start a company of your own to do voiceover? And it evolved.  06:06 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think my idea was to do this event but also to see where else I could take it you know what else could be offered through this company and then also to like expand it and kind of umbrella my own voiceover work underneath it, which ultimately it's separate from who I am as a voice actor. But that was something I kind of had to figure out a little bit later. But the first event was really great, even though it was tiny. It was absolutely tiny and I just I remember like calling you up and being like and what am I going to do? Like there's only 20 people signed up for my event, and you're like okay, val, okay, okay, let's send some email blasts.  06:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean honestly, I think sometimes smaller is better. I have been at VO Atlanta since pretty much gosh every year, except for the first year, and there's something to be said. That's a big event and it got even bigger. But there's really something to be said for a small, intimate event and people can be overwhelmed by going to an event that is so large, especially those people starting out in the industry. So I think that your conference really serves a niche where it can make people feel more comfortable. It can be a first conference or it could be a 10th conference for them. There are just lots of people who feel comfortable in a smaller conference, a smaller environment. They feel that they get much more out of it. And so, yeah, with that first year being smaller, what did you learn?  07:28 I guess my question would be is and having organized my own smaller events not huge events, but, and also having a husband who works in the event industry, I know how much work it takes, especially when you want it to be a great conference and you want people to get something out of it. It's a lot of work behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. What they see is a ticket price. And they say, oh, all they do is multiply that ticket price by the amount of attendees. And they say, well, you're making a ton of money. I mean, I don't understand, why is it so expensive? And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, there are so many, so many things.  08:00 So let's talk about the evolution of this conference and things that you learned along the way. And had you planned an event before? I mean, did you love planning an event? Was it your first time? I mean, I liked planning my wedding and I thought, oh, I could do event planning. And then I'm like, well, you know what, it does take an awful lot of time. So what was going through your head when you're like, oh, it was fun to manage event, this is my first event. Was it your fifth event?  08:26 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, that was my first, I mean, as you said, planning a wedding, which I did plan, my own wedding and that was a big. I loved it, it was great and I was very, very good at planning my wedding which I felt like was a good preparation for the first event, you know, I said to my husband I was like it's like planning a wedding every single year, except no one ever gets married. You know. And he was like yeah, okay.  08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except you to the event. You get married to your event. Yeah, yeah.  08:56 - Val Kelly (Guest) So yeah, I mean, I learned so much after that first year. I just learned so much about the business side of everything that I didn't know. You know, that was one thing. I wish that I had had more business training before I decided to start, because I had to learn everything. I mean, I had my friend help me figure out how to build a website. And that took. I mean just the countless hours of work that go into just trying to do everything yourself because you're starting out and you can't afford to hire anyone.  09:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right.  09:30 - Val Kelly (Guest) And so those are the biggest lessons I've learned, I would say from the beginning until now is just every year I learn something new about the business and how to manage the money side of things. And you know, like you said, people look at the price and they go oh, she's making a billion dollars.  09:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's like actually actually no.  09:51 - Val Kelly (Guest) Actually no because I have to pay for the venue, I have to pay for all the guest speakers, I have to pay for the marketing and all the stuff that goes into it.  09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And.  09:59 - Val Kelly (Guest) I do a lot of it myself, just simply for the fact that I am a small company. It's a boutique you know sized company and we kind of evolved into that whole boutique world where I had this idea Maybe this happened about five years ago where I said someone said to me, why don't you call it a boutique event?  10:19 And I was like, oh, that's cute you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started and I was like, oh, that's cute, you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started. And then I took it and really had to explain to people what does that even mean, you know? And just being a French teacher, it's like, well, when you think of a boutique, what do you think of? You think of like a high-end, smaller place where you're going shopping and you're buying super high-quality items and everything is planned down to to like every tiny detail you know, and that's kind of what I wanted to transfer to my event without being snobby about it, obviously, like you know.  10:54 So that's kind of how I delivered that message to people is just like think of it as a high-end boutique. You know you're coming in.  11:01 I'm hiring only the top tier talents that are in the industry, people that are not appearing at every single event every year because I want to offer something different, and once we had that, we kind of ran with in the conference as far as the number of people and just the organizational part of it and just understanding how things work. And then after that, 2018 was really great too. We skipped to 2017. And then in 2020, covid hit. So then we had to go from being what was supposed to be in-person event, switching it to an online event at the last minute, and that was totally crazy.  11:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was so nuts, I'm sure that was a whole new learning curve for you, because online events are so much different than in-person events and, plus, I don't know if you had already like secured a venue. At that point I mean because typically the planning for events like this it runs all year. That point I mean because typically the planning for events like this, it runs all year. Right, I mean, you're planning for this event, you're planning the next year before the one is even done, basically.  12:12 - Val Kelly (Guest) So when we had to take it online, luckily because it was COVID and out of your control type of scenario I was able to figure it out in enough time to say to the venue we're canceling. And then I took it to a virtual studio in Baltimore and I had someone do like the live streaming for me because. I had no idea what I was doing.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I can vouch for that because myself doing mostly I mean after 2015, I stopped doing in-person events at my home and I started doing everything online and that live streaming. Back in the day, it hadn't really evolved or developed, and so there were lots of live streaming technologies that were just coming out, and so I literally yeah, I had to learn it myself, and then I also hired somebody to help me live stream it, and then I also wanted to do a hybrid event. So it was crazy having people at my house plus live streaming it online, and so that alone and especially if you want it to be a quality event right, that live stream you have to have good cameras, you have to have the ability for people to be able to switch between people that are presenting to the audience and just to make it engaging. Otherwise, one of the biggest complaints about COVID right and online teaching I'm sure you taught online as well was the fact that it was hard to engage, and I know that even today, people like they're fatigued by Zoom.  13:37 I still love it because I feel like Zoom filled a void for, let's say, just people that couldn't physically be together. I mean it was the next best thing. However, when you're trying to educate over an online platform, it really does become difficult or harder to engage people, and so running an online event you've got to be that much more paying attention to detail so that you can put on a great online event, and that is not a cheap thing to do either. To hire somebody for the cameras and that knows the technical backend to do the live streaming, to make the recordings right, you probably offer the recordings to be available for people who couldn't attend every session, and all that backend work on the website is crazy. It's crazy.  14:22 So I have a lot of respect for the fact that you were able to turn that around. And so, what year is it this year for Mavo? How many years has it been that you've been running?  14:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) So we've been in business since 2014. So, this is 10 years in business and it's actually our ninth conference this year, wow.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's a lot to be said for that as well, for the longevity of it. I mean the fact that you know you didn't give up after the first year and you weren't frustrated, right, because it's tough, I mean, and you learn as you go. So you must have a passion for this conference and a passion for putting together something great, educationally resourceful for the community, which I, as a teacher with a teacher heart, I can totally appreciate and respect. That because it's one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss podcast. It's one of the reasons why I did the VO Peeps networking groups, because I wanted to be able to provide a resource. And I believe that that's where your heart is in terms of wanting to provide a resource for the community.  15:18 Because I know it's not about the money and I always try to strive to remind people that venue costs are not cheap. I mean my gosh especially when you're talking about wanting to host someplace. Decent rentals of ballrooms and just sites are so expensive it's along the lines of like tens of thousands of dollars, I would imagine to do that and especially when you're doing it over multiple days and then you're trying to provide reasonably priced rooms for people, and especially when you're keeping it on a smaller scale. It must be harder to find a venue that wants to work on a smaller scale with you. Is that correct? Or they get more expensive.  16:00 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think it's not so much the venue that is not willing to work with you on a smaller scale, it's just the difficult balance, I think is, if you're saying, okay, we're only going to have 120 to 150 people, well, the venue isn't going to lower its price because of how many people you have, because they its price because of how many people you have, because they don't actually care how many people you have.  16:24 What you end up paying for is the meals that you provide. So that's where the big, big expense comes in with any type of food that you offer, because it's based on how many people, and so it's really a difficult challenge of saying like, okay, if we're going to keep it this small, then we actually have to raise the price, so that I can cover all of my costs and at first people were like whoa, what the heck.  16:50 And I was like guys, like you have to understand, like if you want me to hire good people to come in, like great people to come in and speak at this event, they won't do it for free and nor would I want them to, you know. So it's like that's the biggest. Biggest expense beyond the venue is the guest speakers.  17:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know Sure sure, I know how hard it is to sell to this industry because I mean, I sell events myself, I sell coaching services and demos, and so you're selling to an industry where I think we all wish we had more money to spend.  17:23 I mean, I think that's just human nature, I wish we had more money to spend. But especially when you're talking about a creative industry where it is their own business, they're all their own CEOs, they're all entrepreneurs and everybody's kind of just as they go learning the ropes of the business, of it all, it astounds me how much people are willing to spend for, let's say, performance classes, but yet business classes, which I think is imperative for us as voice actors and businesses to be able to make a profit right in order to support, support your habit, support your business, to pay the mortgage, to feed the family, that kind of thing. And so business skills are essential. And I know that your conference in the beginning it was very much geared towards, I would say, more animation and character, but you've evolved it now, especially because I'm involved, you've evolved it to really include many more genres. So let's talk a little bit about what you're offering this year and maybe last year, what you've done to kind of broaden the offerings of the conference.  18:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I think what we had to do was really gauge over the years what the level of interest was with. You know, everybody loves a good animation guest speaker because they're so interesting and everybody wants to work for well, maybe not everybody wants to work for Disney Channel but you know you know, and so that's kind of always where my creative mind went and like where do my interests lie?  18:58 a little bit selfishly, but not really, because it's like I know a lot of people are also interested in that. So I would always try to go with a keynote that was somehow involved with animation, just so.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's a big seller. I know that, even A big seller. Yeah, it's a big seller.  19:15 - Val Kelly (Guest) So then last year we had Serena Irwin who is a casting director and she casts freelance for a lot of different studios and has been on Spongebob and she's amazing like, and I really tried to find somebody that was kind of off the grid a little bit for last year because I wanted to find a less mainstream type of person kind of, I guess I would say. And so it was really successful to have somebody who is a casting director, because getting that viewpoint for people like in the animation world, what are you actually looking for? You?  19:52 know, so for me that was very interesting, for a lot of people was very interesting. And then there have been certain years when we've offered a lot of you know know audio book stuff and it's not to say that we're not ever going to offer audio book guest speakers again. But I felt like for this year I wanted to kind of go in a different direction completely and I feel like having Tim Friedlander as the keynote is such an important thing because Tim is doing such amazing work for NAVA and the National.  20:23 Association of Voice Actors and I just have so much respect for him as a person and as an actor that I just felt like it was like the natural. That's what my creative mind was telling me to go in that direction for this year.  20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's very relevant to the times in our industry. He's done a lot of work with NAava, along with Karin and the board, and they've done a lot of really wonderful work and so they're going to bring a lot of value, I believe, to your conference, absolutely. So let's talk about who else you have this year that might be different besides me, I mean, but we'll talk about me in a minute. I mean, we can talk about you.  20:58 Well, I'm just super excited to kind of bring what I consider my specialties all of the genres, the long format narration, all the stuff that I think right now is really it's important to be an actor, no matter what genre we're talking, whether it's animation, whether it's promo. I mean it's important to be an actor, and even more so now, with all of the synthetic voice, the AI stuff that's out there. It's more important than ever that we hone our skills as actors, and so I want to bring that aspect to the conference to help attendees that are looking to really up their game in the narration, which is a large part of the non-broadcast market out there, and so I'm happy to be there doing. Do you call it a breakout session or a session?  21:45 - Val Kelly (Guest) A mastery session.  21:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A mastery session.  21:47 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, the three-hour sessions are mastery ones and I'm so excited about especially about your e-learning one, because that's a genre for me that I've always wanted to explore and I haven't enough, and you should.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you should because you're a teacher.  22:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it seems like a natural thing to kind of dive into that world a little bit. So I'm very excited, I'm very honored to have you this year and I think it's going to be really great. It's been a long time coming to actually be able to invite you and everything like that, and so I'm very very excited.  22:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm going to be doing two mastery sessions one on acting for narration, and that's all types of narration corporate, medical, all of the geeky narrations explainer and then also the other aspect of the narration genres, which would be e-learning or training. So I'm very excited to have one of each of those to address all those topics. And so, guys, in order to do this, you need to sign up for MAVO, and so hopefully you'll sign up and then you'll look for my mastery classes, but you've got a lot of amazing offerings this year for MAVO, so you want to talk about who else you have for mastery sessions.  23:02 - Val Kelly (Guest) I mean, we have so many great people on board. I'll just highlight a few of them because there's just so many. But Jessica Blue is coming and she's doing some sessions on dubbing live action dubbing and I'm so excited about that because I've never had the chance to meet her in person and we've never offered sessions on dubbing before at Mavo.  23:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great.  23:22 - Val Kelly (Guest) So it's something brand new and very exciting for people. So she's amazing, so that will be really great. Ever Oliver is coming and offering a special teen program on Saturday only of the event, so that's for teens from ages 13 to 17.  23:37 Great and he's doing like animation, video game and commercial voice acting with them, so it'll be a great opportunity for kids to experience working with Everett, which is amazing and so much fun. Also, luanne Regis is coming and she's a casting director and she used to be a talent agent, and so she's going to be offering some great sessions at the conference as well. Just giving her from a casting director's perspective of what are we really looking for and I think that's what everybody really wants to know- is like what do I?  24:12 need to do to actually book this. And then, also really exciting, we have Daniel Ross, who is Donald Duck. He's an Emmy Award winning actor and it's so exciting to have him offering a mastery session on animation and making bold choices, which is so, so important in the character world of trying to book those roles when you have so much competition with everybody trying to also audition for them.  24:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, there's so many people.  24:43 - Val Kelly (Guest) It's a long list.  24:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how can bosses sign up for MAVO this year? Where do they go? What's the website? All that stuff.  24:52 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so wwwmidatlanticvocom, and they're going to click on MAVO events at the top tab and it will bring up all the events that we have going on. We have some like happy hours that go on virtually beforehand, so it 'll mostly be like every other week from now until the actual conference takes place and people can come to those happy hours online for free or they can like make a donation to Mabo if they want to. That's always an option like just to help support the company, but they can also certainly come for free and we're happy to have everybody there to just like network and chat. But yeah, everything is on the website the schedule and all about all the guest speakers and yeah, Fantastic, and you're going to be offering a special discount just for bosses.  25:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For boss listeners out there, talk a little bit about that and how they can achieve that discount.  25:49 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So for the VO boss listeners, we're going to offer a $75 discount and you can just go to the website and click on Get Tickets and when you go to checkout you're going to just enter the code VOBOSS and it will take that $75 off for you on full weekend tickets.  26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, that is so helpful, and guys don't forget to sign up for my mastery sessions and I'm also doing is it an hour long session too, which is for everybody at the conference. Oh yeah, there's a general session too, so that would be really great as well. Great Well, val, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you about Mayvo. I'm so excited and of course I'll just continue to plan my wardrobe.  26:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Same same but.  26:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so excited because you do have a wonderful lineup and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again. Wonderful lineup, and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again and I'm excited to work with the amazing talent that I know is going to be there in this boutique, wonderful, intimate setting for Mavo. So thanks again for joining me and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Val. Thanks again, bosses. You guys have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. All right, take care, bye-bye.  27:12 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vo boss comm and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at VOBoss.com.  00:27 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne. My name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week. I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping me to get better in my craft, even as an Nigerian and an African. There are many tips that are so useful for me and, guess what? You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you.  01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a vo boss.  01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) ! hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the boss superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza and I'm here with the very lovely Lau Lapides today. Hey, annie, so happy to be here. As always, law, you look lovely.  01:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Thank you gorgeous today. You do too. We're getting ready for summer that's right.  01:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's right. You know it's funny because I just celebrated my eighth year for VO Boss. Woohoo, woohoo, yeah, eighth year and things have changed. I'll tell you what in podcasting and, of course, in our own industry, but I used to only do this audio. But the way technology has evolved I mean, everything is video content and on camera and it just has changed. So we have to be prepared not just for doing the voice, but I had to do my hair this morning and do the color coordination and the outfit, so wait are you trying to tell me that you may have to be on camera?  02:16 yes, we may have to be on camera as voice actors, and that's like remember everybody in the beginning I got into voiceover so that I didn't have to show my face. But guess what, guys? There's an entire world of opportunities that law firsthand can talk about in terms of casting right and on-camera work.  02:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and you can talk about it too, because you're always webcasting. This is true Podcasting and on-camera social media.  02:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Content Casting with.  02:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Zoom, I mean it's endless. On-camera social media on-casting with Zoom, I mean it's endless. We are on, on, on camera and we were just talking about this before and I think it's really important for voiceover talent at all levels to be thinking about potentially nabbing some on-camera work. Yeah, Really, the opportunities are there, they're vast. Yes, it gets slow and there's ebbs and flows, just like there are in voiceover.  03:04 But if you are going to reach out, say, for instance, to an agency, and you say, well, I want to get some more reps or I need a rep.  03:10 I don't even have a rep, how do I do it? One of your checkboxes, if you can, is the fact that you are able, capable and willing and wanting to do on-camera work, because a lot of the agencies, especially the boutique agencies, will sign you what they call across the board, meaning they're interested in you as a voiceover talent, but they also want to know you can do on-camera commercial work or print work or anything that has to do with, maybe, a non-broadcast industrial. So I would say I mean one of the things I always say to our coaching clients is think about it. If you absolutely do not want to be doing it, be honest and don't do it, because there's a huge line behind you of actors that want to do it. Yeah, absolutely. And we convert many voiceover talent to also do on camera and have that combo on their resume and they love it. And oftentimes they say, oh, I had no idea how fun this was, I thought I had a face for radio. And I say you have to retire that old, stupid phrase.  04:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, it is old and stupid.  04:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're absolutely right, and let me tell you the stranger, you look the odder, you look the more real, you look the more work you get. You're going to get more work than a supermodel.  04:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, the more desirable you are. Absolutely Flaws and everything, guys. I mean I actually love that the camera is embracing these things now, because real people, right, real people.  04:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Real people. There's an agency in New York, Annie, that's pretty hip. It's called Funny Faces and they represent only real people. Now, those are actors still. They're trained actors. But they're actors that specifically do not look like model types, which is most actors and they're getting most of the work because they want just like in voiceover today they want real people. They want real people who look like real people and who sound like real people.  05:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I love that. So I would have my students say to me oh gosh, I thought I was just training for voiceover. I just spent all this money training for voiceover. What do I have to do for on-camera?  05:21 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) law. One thing I would say is and I hear this a lot, I've heard this for years and years is oh, that's an interesting idea, I wouldn't mind doing that. I mean, if they asked me, I'd say I wouldn't mind it. I'd say listen, don't ever come into it that way, Because I wouldn't mind. It is like saying yeah is like saying you know, yeah, would you clean up the table? I don't mind cleaning up the table. No, you have to have some passion for it. You have to have some real wanting to do it Because, just like in voiceover, you're up against trained actors. You're up against people who really are dying for jobs and want the job.  05:55 So you really want to have. Find that in you. Test it, train Coach number one, just like in everything we say. Coach for acting for on camera. Take some improv classes. Make sure you're in a few acting classes, that you're having fun. You must have fun. If it's against your grain, if it's like taking medicine when you're sick, don't do it. You really have to do it. If you're saying, oh, this is kind of enjoyable, it's kind of sassy, I'm having a good time with that, or all right, you have to come into it with the right spirit and the right positive mindset, otherwise it's like don't do us any favors because you're not doing us any favors. We can find and work with trained actors very, very easily. So come in with a good attitude, coach, and take your classes. Start thinking right away about getting involved with films, student films, independent films. It's not about money at that point.  06:50 It's about building an actor real and building your resume and getting some experience in front of the camera.  06:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Certainly, theater if you're interested in theater, great, but that's a different path and how simple is it now, with social media and our iPhones, that we can get comfortable in front of the camera. And it is a thing, guys, because I know when I first started getting out there, okay, you've got to look at the camera, like right now I'm looking at the camera and I want to look at law on the screen in front of me, but no, I have to look at my camera because that's where my eyes go and so, like little things like that, and then just being able to be yourself, being able to go off script, being able to be on script and sound natural, and to just have that again, that authentic, you come out, gosh. We have all the time in the world and all the resources at our fingertips to start to see if maybe that's something we're comfortable with.  07:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So true and one of the things that people don't realize is 90% of your casting for on camera is the way you look. Maybe 95% is the way you look. It doesn't mean you don't have to have talent you do. It just means they're going to cast you first on your physical type and then they're going to see what you're bringing to the table. So working on memorization is a big deal. That's really part of your job. To memorize scripts, learning how to use a teleprompter on their laptop, which is a wonderful skill to learn. If anything, it focuses your brain and keeps you very calm. There's just some interesting skills that are going to help you in your voiceover, your character building, your analysis of a script of a character.  08:26 You're thinking fast on your feet in improv. How do I create off other people and really acutely listen to what they're saying to me and really be able to create? I'll tell you, I know firsthand that when you're in a film, set or TV— Listen without interrupting.  08:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Written on my shirt Listen, Listen to my breast without interrupting. I know, and I just interrupted you while I said that. So See how I took my own advice yeah, there we go, that's great, that's great.  08:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But I mean, I'll tell you, especially with the younger generation coming up, annie, the directors are different nowadays, like they are really wanting actors to come in and be prepared and give them ideas, give them characters, give them stuff that they can have fun with, steal and run away with and enjoy with you. Hasn't that always been?  09:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the way I feel like that's always been.  09:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I feel like in voiceover.  09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People are always like well, why do they write the script like that when they want us to be real? Well, because I think they want to hear your interpretation of it, and so I think half the time those scripts are written with an intensive purpose yes, to make you get creative and really figure out how you're going to tell that story, even though you have no idea what those words mean. That's really what it is, and a lot of those directors.  09:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) No commentary on them, in particular, on that generation in particular. They're not trained to train you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you, they're doing adjustments with you. They don't want to give you the character, they don't want to build you from the ground up. They don't want to give you an acting class. They want you to make yeah, it is like voiceover. They want you to make life easy for them, fast. For them, time is money. They're renting equipment from houses. They don't want to have that extra day of shooting and oftentimes you won't even meet the actors until the day of the shoot.  10:19 That's your husband, that's your child, that's your—so you have to learn. That's why we always say take improv, take improv. Because you have to learn to say oh, annie is now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover, now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover. Whatever, you have to learn to buy into it very quick and say yes and yes and yes and and for the voiceover on a script. I think it's invaluable because it really allows you to walk into the world of the copy very fast.  10:47 Oh, absolutely, and not second guess it quite as much as we would, as us but to say, okay, well, you know, mcdonald's could be in a fairy tale land. Sure, why not, you know?  10:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I talk to people all the time and my voiceover students all the time about the script and I'm like how many times do you run into your studio and you simply recite the words in a melody that you hear in your head without understanding the story behind it? And when there are words that come up and you're like I have no idea what that means, you just say them, and when you say them with no point of view, you haven't been able to tell a story, you haven't shown that you've done the work. And that's why, when you audition and you can come in with that story and that point of view and you've got that improv, that subtextual understanding, that character backstory, you've got that all figured out, even for an e-learning module I'm just saying Even for corporate then they know that you're an actor and they know that they can cast you and direct you to just about anything and that is the work that we actors must do and if we do that work in voiceover, it's absolutely plausible and possible for you to do it on camera, no question.  11:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And there is that spirit that actors talk about, that takes them over, where it goes from words on a page I'm comprehending it, I'm analyzing it, I'm trying to understand it and profile it to oh, this interpretation that comes over you, that starts to personalize from your reservoir, your emotional reservoir. Well, we're always asking for that in voiceover too. Like, how do I personalize the script, how do I get to my reservoir of tone and emotion so that I don't get sing-songy and I don't fall into cadence and rhythm? It's what a lot of our agents in casting say after they audition talent. That person is not connected.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, you need to be connected. You need to be connected. I kind of keep bringing this back to voiceover, sorry, because there's so many parallels where so many people will complain the way the script is written. I'm like that's not your job to complain about how the script is written. I mean, it's your job as an actor to interpret that script and to interpret that script in a way that makes it authentic and believable.  12:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, and the reality is, if you really don't like it and you have a right to disagree with it, not like it or just not want to do it then don't do it, rather than coming into the job and saying, well, why is it written this way and why?  13:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is it?  13:10 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) this way. Well then, already I'm not open to the job, I'm really not open to the job. So we always say when you're coming into a role, don't judge it, don't adjudicate it, don't make commentary on it, as you, as the actor, just try to engage, try to communicate with it, try to personalize it in every way you can, as quickly as possible.  13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, yes, and that takes practice and we had another podcast that we talked about the amount of work that it takes. Right, that takes practice to do that, to understand that, to do the analysis, to get the acting to understand the subtext and to really do the preparation needed to execute voiceover or on camera, that acting, so that it is something successful for you.  13:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I hear voiceover talent all the time say things like well, this is hard. I would never, say this.  14:02 I would never say this. I said because this isn't you saying this, this is someone else saying this. You're embodying the spirit of someone else. You really are. I mean, we're not asking you to say this or feel this in your kitchen. We're asking you to do this as part of your job. So if you say, well, as part of my job, I'm capable of doing this and this could possibly happen, Well then you open the door Psychologically. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. Yeah, absolutely, Because you've already bought into the idea that this could happen. This way.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, you have to buy into the idea. I love that.  14:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You have to buy into it.  14:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have to buy into the idea.  14:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's why acting is so fun. Even if you never do anything on camera related or theater related, still do acting class, do improv, do everything you can because it shifts your mindset into a more playful fun place.  15:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. And so what advice would you give people that are in voiceover that want to expand into on-camera? First and foremost, what do they need to do? Who do they need to contact? What classes would they take right? Do they need a reel? What are the essentials?  15:17 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right, well, our studio does these. I mean, many studios do classes. Now we do our online, of course. I would say one thing, though if you can take an in-studio class in your city, in your town, in your state, definitely do it, because it's a different experience when you're physically in a room with people as an actor versus online. And I would say, do both, because being online is great too. We get to see you on camera, you get to see what it's like just dealing with all the technical elements on camera, but I would also say, be in a room with people as well, see how you like it.  15:50 You have to feel it out, and I would also coach in it as well, so that you can understand audition material. You can see what your type is Similar to voiceover, right, like what is a realistic type for me to go after? What are the different genres I might be interested in? And then, what is an actor reel? How do I build an actor reel? That's all video-based. How do I put that together? What does actors access and casting networks have to do with it? This is before you seek representation. Do not seek representation until you get your trade down, like voiceover. You really have to have the background of understanding an actor's vocabulary. Once you get that actor's vocabulary and you know that, oh, if I go after a commercial, they're going to expect me to memorize the script, I know that. So this is the vocabulary that we speak of. And then you've got to have practice time, practice rehearsal, coaching, classwork. Now.  16:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) La, let's distinguish. I want to hear from you. I know how to distinguish. In my words, how do you distinguish on camera from, let's say, on stage, oh, it's a totally different world in the sense that they're both highly technical worlds.  17:14 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But it's a different kind of commitment when you do theater, because theater oftentimes is longer, it takes a longer time to rehearse, oftentimes, the performance runs are longer and you have to physically be somewhere in person for a length of time. That can be difficult for theater. That's what they do. They're artists oftentimes, so you should experience that too. Like again go take a stand-up class, go take an improv class, go take something that's short-term, where you're live and you get to be on a stage or you get to be in a studio.  17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you are a theater actor, is it easy to transition to on camera? That's a question I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover.  17:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover. You know what? I don't know. I don't overthink that. I think that there's too much chat about that when really excellent actors, like all the Hollywood actors we know and love, all started out in theater. Almost all of them started out in theater and they found ways, as they worked, as they auditioned, to transition, to internalize emotion, to not allow as many physical gyration and physical largeness to happen, but I wouldn't overanalyze it because I think it's a very interesting craft.  18:11 It's a craft and it's one that you learn as you do it. You have to do it to really learn how to do it. You have to work with different directors, different crews, different folks to see how do they see you Similar to voiceover how do they hear you, how do they see you and really start buying into the archetypes that they're seeing you as Like. If I get called out for a role, I'm almost always being called out for some sort of mother role yeah, almost always. So I'm seen as that archetype of that, whatever that is, and then there's all sorts of variations on that theme.  18:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So really have fun with that you know, it's so interesting because a lot of my theater actor students will come to me and then they'll find it somewhat difficult to transition because now that they're behind a microphone they don't have another physical presence to play off of, but they have to bring that imaginary physical presence into the booth with them.  19:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's exactly right. That's exactly right and that's the thing. I think that's hard for theater actors Some transition well and some do not transition well because they're used to ensemble style rehearsal, so they're used to showing up. There are other people there. You've got a director and they've got energy back and forth.  19:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, that's something you've got to create in the booth, and same thing with on camera. Even on camera, I mean, there's energy of people maybe behind the camera or maybe energy of people within the scene that you're working with, but a lot of times if you're just being a a one person on camera talent, you've got to play to that camera. So you do and you have to show up prepared.  19:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So when you go in, you have to assume OK, they have X amount of time, they're renting equipment, they're renting location, they're doing all these things so that they can help me shine. I have to know my lines, I have to know what playing a mother is, and then I meet the other actors. So I have to do all that work before I even get on the set, and that's very different than theater, whereas theater is much more organic. You come in and you do your table, read, you discuss it, you grow the characters together. It's a very different kind of process and that's why people love theater and they get addicted to theater.  20:20 Sure, absolutely, because they want that energy back and forth, that energy give and take.  20:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's so interesting because in all of the voiceover theater on camera there are all the similarities in the acting. It's just physically and mentally what you need to do slightly different to get to a place in either one. It's all incredible. All being said, you got to be an actor. So what a great, interesting conversation today, law. Thank you so much for your input and your wisdom on that.  20:47 I love it. Bosses, think about this as a way to maybe expand in your business, and, of course, it's always great to expand your actor skills. It will all help you in the booth in the end. So, absolutely so. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and communicate like pros like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week. Love you guys.  21:16 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL coast connectivity via ipdtl.  21:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, I'm so excited to announce our third audition demolition coming up live september 27th, and our uh diet. Ugh, oh shit, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. That was good too, I know, fucking shit. Audition deadline the 20th Okay, september 27th. All right, that's my problem. I have it written here, but I just don't have it in front of my face, so That'll end up in bloopers next time, ugh.   

Ever find yourself wondering how a thick Boston accent might play out in the voiceover world? This week is about speech impediments and regional accents in the voiceover industry. It's not just the hurdles; the BOSSES cover strategies and encouragement for those voice talents looking to make their mark while staying true to their sound. From the importance of clear articulation to embracing the quirks that make your voice distinctive, they cover the gamut of what it means to stay authentic. It's not about mimicking a character; it's about bringing them to life with your unique vocal fingerprint. And for those thinking about their own twang or drawl, we discuss whether it's a hindrance or a hot commodity. This episode isn't just a discussion; it's a roadmap for voice actors striving to find their niche and shine in the competitive voiceover landscape. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss super power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my very special, wonderful friend, special best boss guest co-host. Well, that was a big old mouthful.  00:35 - Lau (Guest) Well, I'll see you next time. Thank you, Anneie. It's awesome to be here. What a great introduction, oh.  00:40 - Anne (Host) Lord, you know how I was like. That was such a mouthful to say and literally I try to talk for a living, and it's a great segue into the topic that I'd like to chat about today, and I know we've discussed this briefly before, but you and I have both had either people on your roster or people that submit to you, and I have students that ask me. They come to me, they have a heavy accent or they might have a little bit of a list or a speech impediment and they will say to me so is this going to affect my voiceover career? Will I still be able to do this Lau? I'm going to ask you, how do you approach that?  01:21 - Lau (Guest) It's a lot, Anneie. Well, truth to tell, the agency does get quite a few submissions. We just got a couple today that clearly, if anyone has a pretty decent ear can pick up some sort of speech issue going on, whether it's an impediment, a slur, a sibilant sound, whatever it is, and it's common. It's actually quite common and I'm careful not to tell people oh, forget it, count yourself out, can't be in this game, forget it, forget it. I always like to say let me offer some.  01:52 If I'm going to do it, let me offer some strategies based on what I'm hearing and what you could be doing as the talent to see is it accurate what I'm hearing.  02:02 So the first thing I would suggest with talent is cross check it and pull it with six or eight of your closest peeps connected to the industry, if you can, whether it's an audio engineer or a coach, a couple of VO talent, and say, hey, listen to my recording. Do you hear any kind of an articulation issue? Do you hear a slurring issue? Do you hear anything? And be honest with me and get kind of like an informal poll on that first, because I never just take one person's opinion on it. So that's the first thing I would do. If they are hearing issues, if they are hearing problems, I would actually say, okay, let me see who is around that I can be getting on a consultation with, who is maybe a therapist, a speech therapist in figuring out how do I diagnose where I'm at right now with my speech and who can help me get to a cleaner, clearer sound. That's really the first thing you have to figure out.  02:57 - Anne (Host) Yes, my prerequisite is that I need to be able to understand you. So I like to say there's a lot more acceptance for, let's say, minor speech impediments and dialects and regionalisms. I mean. It's more accepted than ever before. However, I need to be able to understand what you're saying. So if it gets in the way of me understanding what you're saying in a normal conversational speed, then I feel as though you might want to either talk to a speech therapist or a dialect coach to see if it's something that can be cleaned up.  03:28 Sometimes it's a physical impediment, like it's placement of your teeth, or I've had people that come to me with braces and they're like I want to do voiceover, and so they have a big mouthful of lists and saliva and sometimes that's not going to be hireable and I'll just say well, at some point you'll want to make sure that you're going to be getting those off and whatever it takes for you to be able to speak a little bit clearly. Now, I'm the big fan Lau and I don't know about you, but I don't want people to be too articulate.  03:56 I need to be able to understand you, but too articulate creates a persona which is maybe not forgiving enough for the copy. A lot of times it might sound too proper, it might sound too robotic, it might sound too perfect, and I don't want that.  04:11 - Lau (Guest) But I certainly want to be able to understand you Right and I think it's the old rule of thumb, like if it's something that is pulling focus away from the messaging and people will tell you. A listener should be able to tell you. Even just a layman listener should be able to say am I focused on what you're talking about or am I focused on the particular speech or the particular dialect issue that you may be having?  04:33 - Anne (Host) Sure.  04:34 - Lau (Guest) And I would even talk to voiceover coaches that deal with speech, articulation and breathing, as many of us do. Many of us are trained in that and oftentimes that unto itself can help Learning breathing. Are you breathing properly? If you did have those braces and you had them taken off 10 years ago, did you ever learn to speak with proper placement, based on now where your teeth are and where your tongue is going and all your major articulators? Did you ever acclimate to the speech? Of that, I think it's a really good question to ask. And also we can't discount any mental acuity when it comes to our habitual patterns that we're doing. Are we even aware of them? Do we even hear them? Do you mumble? Do you mumble? People will say, oh, I know, I do that Lau, oh, I know, I've been told.  05:22 - Anne (Host) And I said well, do something Exactly. Yeah, right, right. It can't just be all. I have knowledge of it. Right, I have knowledge.  05:30 - Lau (Guest) Right, exactly, and it gets me into accents and dialects a little too, in the sense that we just had met with a potential client today and talked about that, where he came from. I said where's your background and where do you come from? You have such an ethnically amorphous dialect and it's so fascinating. And he said here's what one of my coaches told me Don't bother trying to eliminate that sound, it's going to be really hard, really impossible. You get to a certain age. You know you don't want to be spending tons and tons of cash on dialect coaches. It's immense to do the training to really flatten out that sound, to get what's called a North American dialect, which you probably can't get after a certain age. It's very difficult. So I said no, you have to celebrate what you have. You have to celebrate, celebrate your diversity.  06:17 - Anne (Host) Celebrate your uniqueness, yes, but Absolutely.  06:19 - Lau (Guest) But yes, but instead of yes and yes, but you have to be real about what placement that's going to give you. Sure, I'm a commercial agent. If I got a bunch of North American clients coming through, they're probably not going to want your particular sound just because the target market you don't represent that and basically tacking on the end of that Lau.  06:41 - Anne (Host) I get a lot of people British accents right that want to do commercial and I'm like, well, your market is probably not the United States right now. The wonderful thing about voiceover is that it's global, but probably in a commercial market in the US you don't hear a lot of commercials that have British accents right. However, you'll hear a lot of e-learning that has British accent, because, hey, who isn't a sucker for a really lovely British accent and it's pleasant to listen to you, for sure. But I think you have to talk to someone, and your coach or your agent should be very real and very honest with you to understand that there can be limitations to your market, for sure, and they should advise you as such.  07:21 I would welcome the diversity, I would welcome your uniqueness and your sound. If you have an accent or a regionalism, and I think that it's wonderful. I mean, I am so happy because, god, how many dollars did I spend trying to get rid of my? First? I had an upstate New York accent and then I moved to New Jersey and then I had a Jersey accent and then I moved to.  07:39 California. So I've got a mishmash of all of them and over the years when it was important to people to have that very neutral whatever a neutral accent is these days right, and I beat it out of myself and so in reality it's not uncommon for people who've been in the industry for a while, they're used to that. But I think today I welcome, I welcome people that sound unique, that sound like themselves. I think it's wonderful. But again, you have to understand your market may be limited, but also embrace what it is. And if it is an impediment or it's a problem physically with how you're speaking or you're physical in your mouth, I think it's something to maybe take a look at if you truly want to be in this business.  08:22 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I couldn't agree more. And the vocal patterns that we create over time. I'll get a lot of submissions of people that again, they have a beautiful voice and they're articulate, they're fine. But they're in these patterns and what we call them as mono patterns, where they're not one tone specifically they change their tonality. But it's patterned, it's like rhythmic or rhyming, or there's a certain cadence to what they're doing, so that it's formula, it's expected, it's a rhythm. And I say, take your acting classes, work in your coaching sessions to break that.  08:53 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, that's absolutely where acting comes into play, because you're basically just trying to do voice acting by mimicking what you think you hear, or what you hear in your head is to what you think people want to hear, and in reality, just wipe that out and just act, because we don't ever think about what we sound like when we talk to one another. We just, you know, I'm not, oh, do I inflict up? How do I, how do I sound?  09:17 - Lau (Guest) You know I'm talking to you right now, laura, I'm not concerned with how I sound, to be honest with you.  09:22 - Anne (Host) I mean, I just we're talking, we're having that conversation, but yeah, you're right. There are patterns and anything that is repeated or consistent can become very white noise, very robotic, very reedy sounding, which does not engage your listener, and the whole purpose of what we do is to be able to connect with our listener.  09:44 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and I think that just the basic rule of thumb is and again you can ask around to get this feedback is is there anything that's getting in the way of my messaging? Like, whatever it is, just tell me what it is, and it may even be something beautiful like oh I have a sexy seductive sound and I turn that on. I turn that on all the time. Well, sometimes it's not appropriate to do that.  10:04 Yeah, stop that Sometimes it's, yeah, sometimes it's coming out on a product that they're not looking for. That Exactly so it's getting in the way. The mechanics of that are getting in the way of the product itself.  10:16 - Anne (Host) And I have a big issue, and I know that you brought that up. I have a big issue with females trying to sound that way and people expecting that female sound that way. Because, number one, that's a horrible stereotype and that's the chocolate commercial or the alcohol commercial you know what I mean.  10:29 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I can't take another job commercial. I just can't. I just can't.  10:32 - Anne (Host) As a matter of fact, there's so many ways to be sexy with your own voice and not trying to put on any kind of sound. So, yeah, ladies, please leave that one, or even men, too, that have that please. And women who have that voice, that can be yes, hello, it's my elegant. Well, elegant is different than sexy. And then there's the male voice that you get a lot of Anneouncers right and they just wAnnea hear themselves land the word right, and then we'll land it like this and they like to hear the end of that and that becomes a pattern, it becomes repetitious, it becomes something that is expected and certainly does not engage your listener. It just becomes something that becomes boring after a while.  11:11 - Lau (Guest) No, and credibility in any kind of style that you're doing is a sort of unintentional kind of delivery that it really is about connecting with the other person that you're connecting with, rather than sounding like you're connecting with the other person you're connecting with Right, and so that sameness whatever that is that sameness oftentimes comes from let me manufacture, let me create, or I hear a lot of clients say Lau, you want me to sound like this. I say no, I don't really want you to sound like this, I want you to be this.  11:43 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want you to be it.  11:45 - Lau (Guest) I want you to be it. I don't want you to sound like it, because it would be like in our terms, like can you just sound like a mother? Well, I'm a mother and I can tell you there's many different sounds to being a mother. It isn't just a mother sound Right, or I want you to sound sexy. Well, there's many different intonations of what that could be like, so I would caution people to be careful of sounding the mechanics of sound and getting too much into that versus the landscape of intrinsic emotional value and authentic connection?  12:17 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely. And especially when you get, when you're auditioning, too right and it'll say you might have a sound delay. So what you do when you have a sound delay, you're trying to just sound like them. And then what you forget to do is you're trying so hard to sound like them that you forget to tell the story.  12:31 As a matter of fact, I always say when casting specs come out and they say think Jennifer Garner or think whoever they might have, whoever the voice of the day is Chris Pratt, don't think that way, but just chAnnel their personality and that's where the acting will come in. And then, because nobody wants you to necessarily, well, sometimes there will be special occasions where they really do want a sound alike, and in that case I think there are people out there that have very, very, it's unmistakable, and you're like, oh my gosh, you sound just like, and that, I think, is a separate marketing tactic. However, for the most part, when casting is asking for a particular sound, I always say, well, don't try to reproduce the sound or mimic the sound, just chAnnel the actor.  13:16 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I love that. ChAnnel the actor. And you'll notice, with actors, especially those that are mimicking, say, a political figure or something, because they're comedians, they're going to throw their whole body into their whole, their mind, their body, their content, their whatever. They won't just sound like that person, they'll start becoming that person.  13:36 - Anne (Host) They have to embody that person.  13:38 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, they have to embody that person really, to do it authentically and to do it well. And so we do the same thing. We're mimicking as well in terms of we're mimicking a real person in this industry, but in order to do it, we have to embody.  13:50 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, so you know you don't sound but embody the sound.  13:54 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, it's like oh, can I mimic an executive? Let me mimic an executive. Sound, don't sound B. It's hard because I have to know, like, well, where are they and what's the situation and what industry are they in and how old are they, and that's going to give me a lot of cues as to the authentic connection versus just the pattern of a sound that they're creating. This is a great conversation. I love this.  14:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so if you have somebody who is Latino and has a very heavy right Spanish accent, what would you say to them?  14:20 - Lau (Guest) Well, in regards to there's a market, there's certainly a market, I think. In regards to Latino, you've got a lot of different dialects. I'd say. First thing that comes to my mind is Are you accent free in your native language? You would know that, or you could ask to find out if you're accent free and if not, what is your dialect? What is the particular dialect, so that we know for the particular castings, if they're looking for certain dialects, that you've fallen to that, and a lot of them are not. A lot of them are saying we would like native, authentic Spanish, latino, but not particular dialect. So that's interesting. That opens up the playing field for you.  14:56 - Anne (Host) I think it's great yeah.  14:58 - Lau (Guest) I think being able to speak Spanish is just like a gold card.  15:01 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely, to a ton more work, right, absolutely. And understanding that and understanding where the markets are for that. And so I might have somebody that says to me, well, will this work for e-learning or will this work for corporate? And I'll say, well, you have to understand that your market is going to be more of a global market or your market will be those companies that are looking to be able to expand in that region. So I'm not going to say no and I'm not going to say that you necessarily need to go spend thousands of dollars on dialect coaching, right, and it's also difficult.  15:32 That's not like oh here let me sound like somebody from Minnesota, but yet I I'm.  15:37 - Lau (Guest) And also Anneie. It's not fun. It's not fun work.  15:40 - Anne (Host) No, it isn't. It's very hard, it's very boot camp.  15:43 - Lau (Guest) It's very drill. It's very hardcore, Like in conservatory actor training. Oftentimes they'll do a training system where they'll learn a particular dialect or they'll have to get a particular accent. It's hard. It's a regimentation that you have to go into and really prescribe to and you have to have a reason to do that. Most people don't have a reason to do that.  16:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so that's a good question, laugh. Now, is there a reason? I mean, there used to be a thing we have dialect coaches, but we also have coaches that teach dialects, right? So I have a role and I need to have an Irish accent. So is it something these days that you believe voice actors should pursue, and what type of genres could be looking for that these days, or are they all looking for authentic? That's a?  16:26 - Lau (Guest) good question. Right, it's a good question. I think, years gone by, when I was training, yes, you'd have more reason to do it Now. No, you don't have as much reason to do it, because even in animation, oftentimes we're looking for more authentic native sounds and accents of people, talent that really come from the place that they are voicing, and so I'd be very careful of spending too much time and energy and money and resources learning accents when really oftentimes you're going to see those auditions calling for indigenous speakers to these particular areas, absolutely.  17:01 And if it's something that they're asking you for and they're interested in working with you, then it's really a pointed reality of why you would do it Like there's an end game to it. You know what I mean. Otherwise I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it so quickly.  17:14 - Anne (Host) All right. So we've discussed people who have, let's say, accents, dialects, regionalisms let's just say a Boston accent that are not necessarily a different language but definitely a regionalism, and what would you say to them in terms of their marketability, let's say in commercial or their marketability, right, okay, so I have a strong Boston accent and I want to get into voiceovers and do commercials, and what do you do when you get a demo where you hear that everywhere?  17:47 - Lau (Guest) Right, I mean. I personally love it because I know there are a lot of gigs out there that look for authentic New England dialects, and there's many of them. There is no such thing as the Boston accent. Massachusetts has like over a hundred dialects. So, it really is specific. But the first thing I ask is can you drop your accent and do North American? Many Bostonians can, actually, if they're actors, they can and many cAnneot. They just know the difference whether you can do it or whether you can't do it.  18:14 - Anne (Host) Is it worth it for someone to invest in doing it, would you say, if they wanted to get into voiceover as a career?  18:20 - Lau (Guest) No, I do not think it is. I honestly don't think it is, because it only takes one or two slips on a vowel sound yeah.  18:28 And you know it and you know it. I think it would be very, very highly stressful to do that kind of thing, especially like as an adult. If you're a kid, that's different. You can pick it up young, but if you're an adult, I don't think it's worth your time. I think you should just go for the gold, just like, go for every single thing that that Boston dialect will offer to you. Yeah, absolutely, and just claim it. Say I'm the Boston gal, I'm the Boston guy. This is what I do.  18:54 - Anne (Host) And I'll tell you what I've created many a demo, many a corporate demo and an e-learning demo for people in New York and people in New England and people who have a bit of a regionalism Now, Southern, even Southern, like South Carolina, North Carolina and Texas I've definitely done Texas, so anybody that has somewhat of a Southern accent, as long as it's not, like I said, as long as it's not impeding my understanding of what it is that you're trying to convey, and I don't think that it's so full of the regionalism that other people can't understand either. But I always, always make sure that my students know that there may be a slightly limited market because of it.  19:32 - Lau (Guest) That's all, oh but listen, you know what, Anneie. Here's the truth. If you're in the larger market of, say, the commercial world in North American sound, it's highly competitive, Absolutely. Just because you're in the majority of what the sound is what they're looking for. It does not mean it's easier to book, oh gosh, it's harder.  19:49 - Anne (Host) In fact, oftentimes it's harder to book. It's harder.  19:51 - Lau (Guest) I'll give you a quick example, because you were talking about British earlier we just had a casting for British, authentically British, and we had in our roster we have about 500 talent.  20:00 - Anne (Host) Authentically British. I say, that's another topic.  20:03 - Lau (Guest) Native, native British. We had four people audition four and out of the four we had to drop one who we know was not Native British, and why she submitted, I don't know, but we ditched it, we dropped it right out. The others are natively. They live in the UK, right, and there you go, so they have much more chance of booking their job.  20:24 - Anne (Host) Oh, gosh, yeah, well, that's it.  20:26 - Lau (Guest) Then the 85 who just auditioned for our North American bank commercial.  20:31 - Anne (Host) That's just my thought and that's understanding your market and understanding. So, like I'm a big fan of target market specific demos right. So if you have a regionalism, if you're bilingual, if you have that capability, I always say let's showcase that in a demo right, so that the people who are hiring or want to hire you or potentially hire you, understand those are what I consider to be unique specialties and also understand for yourself that those are markets you will seek because it's great to be we always talk about. Well, you need to be versatile, but also knowing what your niche is and knowing where your market is is amazing because you can be the go-to for that market.  21:11 - Lau (Guest) Right, like I can't name all the talent in my North American roster, but I know my British talent. Wow, they're memorable, yeah. Well, it's not because the North American talent are not as important, it's because there's many more of them. Sure.  21:27 And a lot of them are very similar in traits, in terms of how they sound. So that's just me. But I say listen, if you're in a minority, I would boast that, I would brand that, I would have a ball with that, I would not hide that and I would never. Here's the thing don't try to be something you're not. Yeah, be the best version of you that you can be. If you want to work on the side, let's say you have some extra income and you say, oh, but I want to work on it I say, well, then go work on it. But don't have unrealistic expectations of being able to compete in a market with people who have those native sides, absolutely.  22:03 - Anne (Host) Wow yet another really amazing conversation, wow, I love it. Bosses, so embrace, embrace that individuality. If it happens to be something that might be a physical impediment speech impediment you might want to take a look at maybe how can you take steps to correct that if you truly want to be in voiceover to do that. And also, yeah, get the opinions of trusted coaches, trusted colleagues and friends, just to see. And if somebody tries to sell you a demo right away without addressing those things, I want you to just literally just run, run the other way. You should absolutely. If you're looking to get into this industry and you do have a regional dialect, if you do have a speech impediment, if it's your most cherished dream, I still don't want you to go ahead and get a demo right away. I would absolutely, absolutely speak to a few coaches about it, speak to trusted colleagues, trusted friends and family and absolutely get their opinions on it. So, la, thank you for great code as always Wonderful chat, as usual.  23:09 And, of course, bosses. We want you to create a world in which your voice can absolutely make a difference and you can by giving and finding out more at 100 voices who care to learn more, all right, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, bye.  23:39 - Intro (Anneouncement) Join us next week for another edition of VOBoss with your host and Genguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  24:07 - Anne (Host) Hey, la, do you know what time of year it is? What time is it? It is the audition demolition holiday, holiday Audition. Oh my gosh, la, I am so excited for this audition demolition. It is, of course, holiday themed. Guys, it is on December 14th. Get those auditions in and of course, you're going to have so much fun with the themed scripts and what. I don't even know what I'm saying. Oh, I can't say A blooper. Yeah, there we go One more time.   

Get set to embark on a riveting journey into the world of visual branding, specifically tailored for voice actors. In this enlightening discussion, the BOSSES will empower you with a comprehensive understanding of the critical role visuals play in effectively communicating your brand. We unravel the nuances of building a robust visual presence, which extends beyond just your attire and accessories and dives right into the realm of headshots and text titles for demos. Throughout the episode, we impart our own experiences and valuable insights, showing you how to leverage visuals to connect more deeply with your clientele. 00:01 - Introduction (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely boss co-host, Lau Lapides. Oh, hey, Annie.  00:31 So good to see you, how are you Fabulous, how are you? I'm great, I have to tell you. All right. So I apologize for being late to our little recording this morning because I was trying to coordinate the outfit law. Now that we are a visual kind of a brand and we've got video, I'm like all right, so now am I going to wear silver jewelry? Which glasses shall I wear? I'm trying to get that visual brand out there and I've got a set of headshots coming up, oh gosh, in a couple of days. And so I have been literally making a list and coordinating outfits because it is such a big part of my brand and I thought, wow, we should really talk about this for voice actors out there. How important are visuals, how important is that branding and those visuals to your brand and your business?  01:19 - Lau (Co-host) I love that topic and I'm so glad we're going to talk about that today, but I have to bring up the fact that you're on the West Coast. I'm in the East Coast, 3,000 miles away, and yet the mental telepathy of like what you chose to wear today and the fact that it's kind of color coordinated with what I chose to wear is like same way.  01:39 They go great, same wave. Like I'm all over the visuals, I do do do think it's important these days, and you and I do remember the days when the voiceover would hide ourselves, we would not be seen we would never have a photo of us out there ever, because we would be worried about a potential client looking at us and saying, wow, they look like this, but they sound like this.  02:02 - Anne (Host) I'm not going to cast them, right, right it was a thing I mean I remember distinctly when I got into voice herers like you know what I don't want to be in a career that's based on what I look like, okay, and I want to be able to be creative, I want to be able to act, but I don't want it to be dependent on me being young looking or beautiful or anything like that or how I look, and so I was very much into the voice acting.  02:25 However, as I've evolved my business throughout the years, I've really kind of settled into the fact that, as people, we need to connect with other people, and so the visual I've changed my mindset so that I don't have to feel like I look perfect or a particular way. However, for my business and for my brand, I take a lot of care and I take a lot of pride in that, and so I actually strategize. I mean gosh if I tell you I literally been making a list, a list of the outfits, the colors, the props that I'm going to use for my headshots, because I'm envisioning my website right, representing me, who I am, knowing that my clients want to connect with the person. Yes, and I want to stress that it's not about necessarily what you look like. It's about conveying who you are as a person, who you are as a brand, who you are as a business Right.  03:20 - Lau (Co-host) Listen, we can't get out of the fact that we live in a world. A lot of it is visual, it's what we see. Most people are visual learners, so when they pick you up, they're picking you up in 10 seconds less than that visually. So when we're meeting a client, when we're meeting a talent, when we're meeting a prospect, they're going to look at you. If they see you, sure, if they visually see you, okay, what's the first thing we see? It may be a website, it may be a social media post. It may be something that is not physically you. So thinking about what that visual brand is from the start, I think is wise and necessary and important in a visual society.  03:57 - Anne (Host) And when you do have those photos right that are showcasing you in action in your studio and again mine aren't just gonna be your typical headshot, like I mean I will have those, but typical, like from here up they're gonna be like lifestyle shots, they're gonna be shots of me, literally law. I am bringing a desktop boom arm with my microphone, with the headphones, with the laptops and the cables by the way, and the cables.  04:23 And I am dragging that all to the studio where I'm going to get my headshots, because I want those shots to represent who I am in my business and how I interact right with clients in my business and showcasing that so that ultimately people get a sense, a visual sense, because if they do come to my website first, right before they connect with me either on the phone or on a video call or even just hear me, they're seeing me in action and they're seeing my business in action and I think it's so very important for voice talent to really understand that. And again, it's not all about like that typical, like headshot, which it can be, but I really want that to show more about who you are. How is that headshot going to reveal your personality, your business? Because, again, our voices are product right, but our visual brand can also showcase that product.  05:17 I always talk to people about their websites and make sure your demos are above the fold. But, like, when you're placing your demos above the fold, put a text title by the spots that you have in that demo, because otherwise they don't know what's in that demo, they can't see it right, they just see that. Oh, there's an audio file that I can click on and listen to, but three quarters of the way into that audio file I don't know that. You have a Toyota spot right, and so if you're listing those spots out visually right, really it's just text that also helps with your SEO, but that can really, at a glance, somebody seeing oh, she's done work for Toyota right, that can make an impression.  05:54 - Lau (Co-host) Now here's my question of the day. I'm seeing a lot more demos that are video-based demos, so I know the people that that's their real jobs. They have a right to show it. That's their actual jobs and they're utilizing that because it's been aired. Others are creating these visual elements to their demo. I wanted to run that by you and see how are you feeling about that these days. Do you like that trend that's happening? Is it fun and exciting, or do you feel like it's a little edgy showing those visuals that they haven't really been a part of? How?  06:27 - Anne (Host) do you look at that? I'm a big fan. I mean, I've read in the forums. Some people are like, well, are they really giving you a return on your investment? I'm here to say, look, our demo is a marketing product, right? And it's kind of the same question Do we put produced spots or do we put sound effects and music behind an e-learning spot? Because typically there isn't. I'm like, well, this is a showcase, this is a marketing piece, this is a demonstration. Yes, there are times that you'll have music behind your e-learning. You may or may not know that. You don't know what the client is doing with it, necessarily afterwards, and so they're very well-could be, and I've actually seen a lot of e-learning modules where it could be character-based, it could be storytelling, video-based, it can be a lot of different ways to get the interactivity or the engagement with the listener. So, yeah, why not? I mean, it is a marketing piece, and so I feel like a video demo is yet another way to showcase your product. It's not the only way, I feel the same way.  07:26 - Lau (Co-host) Yeah, I feel the same way. I think we're living in a day right now where your visuals mean a lot. I oftentimes say to talent listen your voice actors. So don't be surprised if you have people at a showcase that are a producer or an agent type or even just some corporate prospect, say hey, are you an on-camera actor? I would like to use you in a print ad along with your voice. I would like to use you in this and that, and be prepared for that answer whether you welcome doing on-camera commercial work on-camera TV, film work, print work.  07:58 I think that throws a lot of talent off who only identify as a voice over talent. And don't get me wrong, that's fine, you can just do voiceover and specialize that and don't do anything else. But there's a whole bunch of people that are really open to that idea of doing more. Like, if I get signed by an agency and they want to sign me across the board and they say, hey, we're going to submit you for everything theater, tv, film, voice over, whatever I say, why not if you're interested in pursuing that, yeah, I agree, I agree.  08:30 - Anne (Host) Now let me ask you what sort of tips would you give to people who are really trying to figure out their visual brand? Do you have any tips?  08:40 - Lau (Co-host) I love that and I'm so glad we're talking about that today. I just got out of a coaching session looking at a Vio Talent's first headshot shoot and we were talking about what happens in the face, what happens in the eyes, what people are reading very, very quickly out of that.  08:58 So I think that it's very important to talk to people that are specialists in particular areas. So, for instance, a stylist that's really good may wanna provide for you a look book before you go and take your photos of some fashion looks, some professional looks, some business looks, some whatever looks, so that you can start to mimic those looks that would be right for your styling and your branding. It's hard to come up with that yourself.  09:28 - Anne (Host) I don't think I could even come up with it myself. It's so funny that you mentioned that because literally I just spent a weekend with my very good friend. She's always been a style icon. I've always considered her a style icon. In the last year she's gone into the business and I'm gonna give her a plug. Styled by Gianni yes, gianni, g-i-a-n-a-i yes, styled by Gianni. She's amazing. She's got all different types of packages, but she's sustainably conscious. I mean, she's located in LA. She can work with you remotely. She can work with you in any capacity. She's got all sorts of cool things. If you're just open to a consult, she can chat with you and then discuss colors. If nothing else, right, what colors, what color palettes? What's your body type? She'll take your measurements into consideration. I love it. What type of clothing would be best suited for you? And again, it doesn't necessarily just have to be about you and your clothing and your look, but it can also be about colors, colors that reflect who you are.  10:23 Colors that reflect who you want to be or what you want your business to be. And again, I've got multiple colors. We all know that red and black is the color for VO Boss. However, ink and guza is blue, and I've got a different color for VO Peeps, which is a teal blue, and I love those colors and it's one way that the brand is separated. So think of me. Now I'm gonna go to my photographer, my head shot artist. I'm gonna call her and I'm gonna go over there with I've got three different brands to represent. Literally, if I could ever come to my house, you could just like take photos in my closet, because I've got all these options of clothing and all these options of colors.  10:59 And some of the colors may or may not even have to go with my brand, but they go with my personality, right, I also think too, people are not thinking about the fit of things, so your stylist needs to help you with.  11:11 - Lau (Co-host) I might love this color, but how does it fit my body? Is it showing my body off? I know women, especially younger women, have a tough time with this and oftentimes we'll have things that are too big and baggy or have things that are too tight or showing a mid drift or whatever. Whatever the case may be, that may not be appropriate for your particular branding. So you need someone who understands style but also understands the brand that you want in terms of your fit, your color. Are you trending? Are you moving forward? Do you want to do retro?  11:41 A lot of VO's are very retro. They like doing fifties, forties, voguing stuff. Absolutely, I would say you know what, annie, and this is something you do really well. I would have fun. So many people. It's such a drudgery to go through this kind of thing and I'd say wait a second, especially the talent who are animation artists who are having fun. They're being outrageous a little bit. What if you had one shot on your website under your cartoons where you have little bunny ears or you're doing cosplay, anything, right, right? Who am I thinking of?  12:14 - Anne (Host) Jessica Rabbit.  12:15 - Lau (Co-host) No, no, no, the famous singer piano man. He started out wearing costumes Elton John, Elton John.  12:22 - Anne (Host) Elton.  12:23 - Lau (Co-host) John. Who could be more prolific and serious now? Yeah, really serious about everything. Started out wearing bunny suits, oh my gosh.  12:31 - Anne (Host) And now, if you're going to talk about that, you can talk about Lady Gaga and all of her outfits, cher.  12:37 - Introduction (Announcement) It's endless. And all of her I just saw Cher who looks amazing.  12:40 - Anne (Host) By the way, Awesome she does not age, she does not age, she doesn't age at all, barry. Manilow. I just watched the.  12:45 - Lau (Co-host) Holiday Special of the Dream Lighting.  12:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah, all the icons.  12:50 - Lau (Co-host) I'm getting the clem to it that one, barry Manilow, but I was just thinking about, like an Elvis Costello. If anyone knows Elvis Costello, he was very forward thinking by retching back oh, david Bowie, in his cool black and white suits. You know, david Bowie. So the point is, you don't have to be a pop star, you just have to be authentic to you, your personality, the kind of work you do Absolutely, absolutely, and they work that into their brand.  13:15 - Anne (Host) I mean the way they dress, the way they style. I mean even rock bands, if you remember back in I'm showing them age, but you know, like Kiss, right Makeup and platforms, that kind of thing Anyhow, aren't they doing?  13:26 - Lau (Co-host) I just saw them on TV. They're doing their last. What is it? Madison Square Garden, their last concert? Yeah, their last tour and retiring. It's just pretty amazing. But the point yeah, they were in mask for how many years you never saw their real faces. So the point is is like get yourself to start out, wean yourself into it. Get a good headshot. Just start with a good headshot so that for your PR, if someone says hey, mike, susan, jay, I need you to send me a good photo, you have something and you're not going, let me go through my photo camera roll let's see if I have anything Like have something, and I also would have. You and I were talking about props earlier too. I love that idea. It could be your pet it could be your mic, absolutely.  14:07 - Anne (Host) What is it you're passionate about? Whatever, if, I could bring my cats. If I could put them in a car and drive them, I would bring my cats because yeah, Obviously, yeah.  14:16 - Lau (Co-host) So things that define you in your work day, but also in your personal life, that you love, you care about. Remember one of our favorites, betty White, who I love so much. She was known for the animals. Every time you thought of Betty White, you thought of the animals she was. I remember the PSA she did, annie, where she was surrounded by all the animals because she was helping save the animals. That was something she always had in her PR. Where she could was an animal, absolutely, absolutely.  14:43 - Anne (Host) So these are all visuals for you to be thinking about and not only can they go on your website but they can go in your social media campaigns and promotions. Youtube channel, I mean, again, if you are out there creating something visual, like if you are out there doing a podcast, right, I think today if you're doing a podcast and you don't have a video element to it and I'm not saying maybe the whole podcast has to be video, but honestly I mean everybody's kind of going that way, even though I also have an audio version, you and I have an audio version, but we have a YouTube channel right where we have videos, we do shorts, and so if you want to promote your business and you're doing any type of video or YouTube shorts, obviously you're on camera and there is branding to think about. I mean, if you've gone to all the trouble to create a logo, right, and figure out well what colors, what font, why not just extend it to your personal body, your personal self?  15:37 Because, again, our product is so very personal and I'm going to give a tip that gosh I got a long, long time ago when I worked with my business mentor, who was helping to brand me at the time, was that we created a private Pinterest board and she said to me I want you to just create a board and I want you to put everything on that board that's your favorite thing, like favorite places, favorite colors, favorite things, hobbies, activities, and when you put that board together, when you have your favorite since, she said, I'll include your favorite fonts, right? Well, that was a big mistake.  16:12 - Introduction (Announcement) Cause I have like a thousand favorite fonts.  16:14 - Anne (Host) But anyway, I put that board together and shared it with her and it was a great visual representation of who I am and from there she was able to create a website she was able to help me with branding and help me with marketing campaigns and that really came up with my Angangusa brand, because when I was doing it myself, it's so hard to brand yourself. I think we've had episodes where we've talked about branding. It is hard to brand yourself.  16:39 And even now I have ideas because I help people so much with it. But it's always nice to get that second set of eyes, that second set of ears. That is saying you know what I see you in this light, where you think maybe here's what I'm projecting out. But I need to know how do you see me, how do you see my business and what demographic am I speaking to and what does my look? Or what are the colors? What do the images on my website have to do? What feelings? I think you got to go so far as to what feelings are evoked when somebody looks at your website.  17:13 - Lau (Co-host) That's great Very pathos, very visceral. You got to revisit it too. I think that a lot of talent it evolves.  17:20 I don't know why they think, oh, I've done this, I made a demo, I'm done. I said you made a demo. Honey, you're starting, you're not done, you're going to make another thousand demos over your lifetime. Like, this is just the process. So if you choose a logo that may change in a year or two or three, if you've evolved, all companies rebrand. Yeah, I was just going to say I like to think of it. You've got an interior designer for your home, potentially.  17:44 - Anne (Host) Well, this is an exterior designer for the world and VO Boss has already rebranded once and it is a thing I mean. Rebranding is a thing you need to evolve. I know that my husband's company is going through a large rebranding right now and they're a well established company. So you need to evolve your brand. And we've all seen it with products that we buy, like Coca-Cola rebrand you know it's just people rebrand. When it's time to refresh, rebrand, yes, it's time for you to always revisit these things and I always say come at it from a perspective of where's your heart, where are your passions for where your company is going. And I'm evolving. My Anganguza brand will be evolving and broadening out to a larger audience. And even this podcast.  18:28 I've been always wanting to evolve this podcast to a larger audience so that it's not just voiceover artists. However, it's been voiceover for a good seven years. Now I've got a thought do I start a new podcast if I want to venture out of not that I'm venturing out of voice acting, but if I want to also explore right other avenues, like just podcasting in general, entrepreneurship? Like, do I keep this podcast and then add a new one, or do I rebrand this podcast and evolve? It's not something you do by tomorrow. It's something that takes some thought and sometimes the idea just has to sit with you for a while.  19:05 I remember a few years back, law, I went to rebrand and I was trying to consolidate VioPeeps and VioBoss and I had new designs. I actually had my VioPeeps bird and I made him edgy. So I changed the colors from the VioPeeps bird, from the blue, and I put him in black and red and he's like edgy. I had like a leather jacket, he had like some sunglasses and he was very cool and I got some really cool graphics out of that for a complete consolidation of a brand.  19:34 - Introduction (Announcement) And I decided not to do it after that, but it was something like I said.  19:38 - Anne (Host) It doesn't always have to happen. I mean, I decided against it only because my little bird was just too cute to give up and I loved him, and you know what I said. That's it. I'm going to keep a separate brand, but I think it's something that every year, and especially since we're in the beginning of the year now, right, it's something that people can think about. Right, what are you doing for this next year? What are you doing? Are you evolving? Are you growing? How are you doing that and how are you changing things up? I mean, gosh knows that if you change up your website, it can actually put your SEO into high gear, right? Especially?  20:12 - Introduction (Announcement) if you update content.  20:13 - Anne (Host) If you update pages, update looks, maybe update capabilities.  20:17 - Lau (Co-host) Yeah, and there's a functuary in that it's such a refreshment in doing that.  20:21 You know just when you think you know your favorite company's tagline or slogan. Just look it up. You're going to see sometimes hundreds of slogans that they've used over the years because they're reaching out to different demographics of people and they need to have different visuals right that appeal to those demographics. So I love that. I think you should stay really you know you don't want to change things every two seconds because then people get confused as to who you are but keep it fresh and trendy so that you give yourself flexibility and fluidity to say, um, that color scheme isn't me anymore, or it doesn't really represent the people I work with anymore, or the thing itself, the website itself or whatever, just doesn't look like me anymore. Here's one of the things that I discovered, annie, I know you already know this, but I discovered it only about a year ago and that is why was I in the box of thinking I just needed one website.  21:11 Oh yeah, right so people are having the discussion should I get a website? I'm having the discussion how many websites should I have? So now, for every event I have, I want to do? I'm driving my web people crazy because I'm like it's so inexpensive to get it. People don't have to fight through your website to find the thing you're looking for right.  21:33 To me, that's been my personal playground of visual branding and also ease of navigation for the client to say, oh, it's this particular project, it's a big one, I want to represent it visually aside from everything else we're doing. So when you talk about your different brands, in case people don't understand what that means, it could be something as simple yet sophisticated as having separate websites, absolutely, absolutely.  21:58 - Anne (Host) I mean, for years I've had medicalnarrationcom, I've had phonevoicecom and I've had, for each genre that I specialize in, of course, vopeaps and VOBOSS. I mean, I think at one point I owned like 13 domains and I still have domains. I have domains right now because I have ideas. How many sites do you have now? Though I probably have, I've got VOPEAPS, voboss in Gangusa, automotive, annie medical-narration phone-voicecom, e-learning-voicecom. Gosh, I've got a bunch.  22:31 - Lau (Co-host) And those are all actual websites right. Those are landing page websites that you can get to see what it is.  22:38 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I'm going to revisit and see what my SEO value is for those right now. But if you definitely are pointing people towards your website for promotions or for purchasing, it definitely can help to have it just go to a website. And of course I always, always, always recommend people say, and Gangusa or yournamecom, because you are a personal brand and that's the first and foremost domain I think anybody should get. But it's not expensive to purchase domains these days, unless of course you have a very common name or you want, like voiceactingcom, which that's already taken, but your first and lastnamecom. If not, then your first lastname, voicecom or voice acting or voice actor, those things all are viable.  23:22 - Lau (Co-host) I love it, I love it. And one more thing, Annie, I want to bring up. That's what my dad always called ATD attention to detail, which really makes a difference.  23:31 Now maybe more viable in a time where we were meeting people in person more than we are now, but I'm going to say it anyway because I personally like to get out and go to physical events. If you go anywhere to meet someone outside of your office, in your studio, not only worry about the way you look, but be concerned about if you drive watch your car. That's something that we always said oh, do I want to do the deal with this person? Their car is filthy. I just got inside of it. It's a mess, right?  24:02 Real estate agents used to talk about that a lot because they'd get inside other people's car to go look at properties or they'd get in the real estate agents car. So I know it may or may not like pertain to some of the listeners right now, but some that are going out physically to meetings, to networking, to this, to that like how you show up physically to the parking lot, come into the room, whatever, just it all kind of matters, it all matters. Don't think, oh, I'm offstage right now, no one sees me, no one cares. Until I enter the room, they do care, they look at you and they say is this the kind of person that I want to know Is it the person that I want to work with?  24:40 - Anne (Host) potentially, it's just never thought about that. Never thought about that.  24:44 - Lau (Co-host) Right, If you're meeting for a Zoom coffee or a real coffee, you're going to Starbucks or whatever. Like, just think about. Right, Bring your notebook, take notes. That's a visual right, good advice. Wow.  24:57 - Anne (Host) Well, this was a fun topic. I love it. Fun. We could go on and on, we could Bosses. As individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, together we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL because I love talking to law and I love connecting with other bosses. You can find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Awesome Bye.  25:34 - Lau (Co-host) See you next time. Bye.  25:37 - Introduction (Announcement) Yay. Join us next week for another edition of Vo Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  26:08 - Anne (Host) Law you just had, like a series of fireworks.  26:15 - Lau (Co-host) I know what happened there. I should keep that in there. I don't know, I have no idea. Oh my goodness, I thought it might be something on your end. I don't know, I've never, but you and I, we are making fireworks together.  26:28 - Anne (Host) There you go, we are making fireworks.   

Prepare yourself to delve into the beautiful dance of giving and receiving - a balance, when maintained, that can have profound impacts on both your work and personal life. We'll explore the joy of giving and the ripple effects it carries for both the giver and recipient, as well as the importance of receiving recognition in the business world. As we navigate this conversation, we'll also challenge the constant need for validation and discuss how rewarding achievements can foster healthier self-esteem. Join us as we explore the complexities of acknowledging one's worth and the importance of fair compensation. Essential listening for anyone who struggles with receiving, this episode promises to enlighten and inspire. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:19 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing, awesome, most wonderful boss, co -host Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, hi, hi, Annie. Happy Saturday, yes, happy Saturday, Lau. You know, Lau, it's a new year and I am full of promise and full of motivation and inspiration and we've just come off the season of. I like to call it the season of giving, because I love to give gifts and I love to donate to my favorite charities. And you know what? I also like to receive gifts, but we don't always talk about that. We talk about giving, but what about receiving? And sometimes Lau those gifts, they're not in a box. So let's talk about the gift of receiving, shall we?  01:14 - Lau (Host) It's so interesting to me. I love this topic and because there's so many cultural differences of how we receive. There's gender differences, there's age and generational differences and I don't hear anyone really talking about how do we get something, receive something, take something, and how do we behaviorally deal with that. Yeah, like something is simple. I'll tell you what's in my brain right now. When someone comes into my home or my studio, the first thing I do and this was in my training was to offer them something. I offer them a hot drink.  01:51 - Anne (Host) I offer them a warm beverage.  01:52 - Lau (Host) I offer them a warm beverage of their choice, right, and that is definitely generational, but it's also cultural because that's the background Eastern European background. We are gift givers. We give a lot to others, right, and there's different schools of thought business-wise as to how you receive that, and how I train my clients is take it, take it. You don't have to drink it, you don't have to want it, but take it because it's giving a message to the person who's giving it to you that you are cordially receiving something that they're offering to you.  02:29 That's part of their protocol and they're etiquette right.  02:32 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you one thing that's always been hard for me to receive and I think a lot of maybe women, maybe a lot of people share. This is a compliment I'm just saying that is so difficult for me, without downplaying it, and honestly, the best thing you can do to receive that compliment is to receive it with gratitude even if you don't feel it right.  02:55 I mean, how many times do people send a compliment your way and you're like, oh no, it was nothing. Or, and especially, though, when it comes to our businesses too though, isn't it funny. When it comes to our businesses, I am more than happy to take a compliment from a client. Do you know what I mean? If a client's like, oh my God, great job, right, I'm very happy about that. Inside, I'm bursting with pride and joy and hopefully that's every boss out there when they get a compliment or good feedback from their client, and I think that you must receive that. And if you receive that, that really speaks volumes to professionalism, right and courtesy, and understanding what it means to the other person when they're giving you something such as a compliment doesn't have to have monetary value, of course.  03:37 Well, like to have gifts of gold but in addition to that, gift of a kind word is really something I think that is truly like giving of the other person, and if you reject it, then that's a little insulting and hurtful.  03:53 - Lau (Host) I think you hit the nail on the head too when you said, especially with women, how we're not always in the mood to receive that or expecting that or even deserving of that. In our mindset, it's a little bit of that imposter syndrome that comes in when someone gives you that compliment and that moment of like oh, how do I take that? Do I deserve that? Oftentimes we'll say, oh no, I just got this dumb outfit.  04:19 - Anne (Host) You know it was on sale. Anyway, you look terrific, you look great and I throw it.  04:22 - Lau (Host) This old thing, yeah, this old thing, it's been hanging in my closet Doesn't mean but you look terrific, you look amazing. We'll throw it right back at the other person, which they don't realize oftentimes. That is a passive aggressive non accepting value, because it's not just a compliment, it's showcasing your value.  04:43 - Anne (Host) It's almost like when you throw it back and it's not that you don't mean it, but sometimes when you throw it back immediately, it's almost like you don't accept what they're giving to you and you're like, oh no, you look great. And so then it becomes that kind of a battle of maybe, well, who's giving here and who's the gracious receiver right?  05:00 - Intro (Announcement) There's gracious giving and there's gracious receiving.  05:03 - Anne (Host) And I truly believe that it needs to be within our boss superpowers to be able to receive and something that's we're talking a little more on maybe a loftier level in terms of nothing that has monetary value, but definitely has value like a compliment right, an act of kindness, that sort of thing. What about money Lau? I mean, how hard is it sometimes for us to accept for a job Well done, I'm happy to accept money, but thinking about, am I worth the money, am I asking for enough money? And what if I get more money? And is that hard for me to receive? Because, again, we have some of these mental issues sometimes with accepting money and that really kind of, I think, goes back to our value or our feelings of self worth.  05:47 - Lau (Host) Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know what that money may be in money form and it may go towards an actual gift right. And I recently received. One of the gifts in the mail I literally just got within a week ago was from a client of mine who sent me one of those beautiful boxes for a holiday for. Thanksgiving that was chock full of coffee, beans and caramel and just everything under the sun.  06:09 - Anne (Host) And.  06:09 - Lau (Host) I was so surprised when I opened it up. I was so amazed that someone was thinking of me in that way, but how I reacted to it now, on retrospect, when I look at that, what did I do immediately? I thanked her, I loved it, and then I immediately started to give it away. I immediately started to offering to my clients coming through that.  06:29 - Anne (Host) I see to my family.  06:30 - Lau (Host) Oh, here, let me share, let me, here, let me give this to you. Let me share this to you. And I oftentimes wonder is a gift really meant for you when it's given to you, or is it meant for you to do what you see fit with that gift? So, if you get the monetary cash and you want to give it to charity, how would that person, how would the giver actually feel about that if they really wanted to give it to you? That's an interesting question.  06:56 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that is an interesting question. Well, you know what I think? That if a gift is given, it is because or at least for me, the person that is giving it wants to extend a gift for the other person to experience joy, I would think, and appreciation, and I feel like for me, whatever they choose to do with it, I mean, unless I feel like they secretly hate it and they gave it away and they're like, oh gosh, this is like what is it called?  07:21 - Intro (Announcement) An elephant gift. An elephant gift yes exactly.  07:24 - Anne (Host) And so then I would be a little hurt if I knew. But I think my intentions are to provide a token of appreciation, a token of here's how I feel about you. And if the other person doesn't accept it for themselves graciously at first, and then I realize, oh, maybe they've immediately given it away or something, then I would be hurt. I would be hurt by that Feeling like they've rejected my gift.  07:45 - Lau (Host) But, annie, let's be honest, we've all done that. Haven't we all gotten that scarf? Or those gloves that are just the ugliest thing in the world, do you think? Oh, they're itchy, they don't really fit me. Well, let me, elephant, gift that to someone who will appreciate it. And if not, you notice people are starting to say if you don't want it, it's okay, pass it on. I'm like a donate.  08:05 - Anne (Host) The other thing would be like here's one things that people have made for me. Now, this could be homemade food. This could be homemade gifts. This could be my grandmother knitting me a sweater, or my mother knitted me.  08:18 I'm gonna get me all teary, but my mother, she knitted me afghans and blankets, and my aunt used to so close for me, and it reminds me of the bunny suit on a Christmas story with Ralphie, and so you accept that and you're grateful for it, because there was thought and love put into the gift and so receiving that means that you're receiving that love. You're receiving that gift.  08:41 - Lau (Host) You're receiving it, you're suck it up. You do you do. You're totally, because it's not the color of your bedroom and it just is not the feel that you wanna put on your body, but you love it. You put it on display somewhere. You just have to appreciate that, right. What about this one? What about from a philosophical point of view? As we live our lives every day around the holiday season, how are we viewing gifts that are given by others or by the universe? Are we recognizing any gifts, gifts?  09:09 - Anne (Host) from the universe Locke. Let's delve deeper into that. So what gifts from the universe? What would be some examples? I like that.  09:16 - Lau (Host) Well, I'm a New Englander, so on the New England track. I think all of us can relate that come from cold weather climates and when I have more, temperate weather or. I have a winter where we're not like snowed in and killing ourselves with the slush. To me, I recognize that as an immense gift.  09:35 - Anne (Host) Nice and Californians are very grateful for rain.  09:38 - Lau (Host) Yes, oh yes, yes, yes, yes. How about the gift of looking in the mirror and seeing yourself for what you actually see, not for what you want to see? So that is, as you age, seeing the wrinkles, seeing the imperfections, seeing the scars, but then feeling like, wow, there's a gift in there for me of understanding.  10:02 - Anne (Host) That represents my life, my heart. Here I have to tell you because my own personal experience. I have lost a little bit of weight and so I look at my body, which is now kind of a wrinkly because I got some skin, and I look at that and I'm like, ok, that could be considered by some to not be attractive, but for me it's almost like it's a battle scar. It's like you know what I'm proud of?  10:23 my body I am proud, I am grateful. I am actually so grateful for my body, for being resilient and for the things that my body has been through, and I think that we can apply this to our businesses as well right, our journey as our businesses. But, like my body has been through a journey, my mentality, my entrepreneurship has been through a journey, and I'm grateful for all of it because I've survived it and I've been able to come out the other side more joyful and educated and more motivated to do even more. And so I really try to take a look at that and be grateful for that gift from the universe right that I have received. And I love that we kind of brought the gifts from the universe into this discussion, because I think we have them every day and we don't always recognize them for what they are and we aren't always receiving them or acknowledging them with the amount of gratitude or thought that I think we should.  11:23 - Lau (Host) Right, or even just mindfulness, conscientiousness of seeing it and observing. We talk about it from an actor's point of view, but from a human point of view, are you really seeing what is in front of you? What are you uncovering? And since we're diving deep, I'll go one deeper, because you're not only surviving and you're thriving in the gratefulness and recognition, in the gift of that, and that's what makes you so beautiful, both aesthetically but also inside. There's a beauty and a light that happens in you. To me that's very recognizable and I'm going to dive even deeper. I'm going to say I have someone very close to my family suffering from a very deadly illness and eating it and I watch it every day go into remission and I watch it turn around and I watch it Now, from the outside, this person is somewhat suffering and all of that. From the inside, I see that little soul, that little spirit winning and I'm like a gift a gift, a gift, a gift every day.  12:28 - Anne (Host) It's so true.  12:29 - Lau (Host) If I lose the job, if I don't look good one day, whatever, this is the gift that I'm going to keep coming back to, of course, and I totally identify with that.  12:38 - Anne (Host) I mean it is, and we've talked about this before.  12:41 I mean, yeah, when someone that you love or someone you're close to is going through a challenge mental challenge, health challenge, whatever that might be I mean, in reality, it really points us towards knowing and understanding what those gifts are. And I've said it before, when I was going through my own health challenge, I mean, once I got back in the studio, I was like gosh, what was I ever worried about? You know, here I was thinking, oh, my voice doesn't sound in a particular way or I'd worry about those things, and I'm like my gosh, I have just been given this immense gift and I'm here to be able to experience and here to be able to just do what I love in this booth and just be, just be and be grateful. And well, I'll tell you what that comes through in our voices, doesn't it? It emanates from us and, as performers, I think that it behooves us to be good receivers, right Of the gifts that are being given to us, because it just absorbs into our energy and just radiates out from our performances.  13:39 - Lau (Host) It so does, and I mean the gift of knowledge of how to give as well, so like, for instance, when it comes to philanthropy and charity. I love that. I'm big in that. I'll give a quick plug to our 100 voices who care.  13:54 - Intro (Announcement) We love.  13:54 - Lau (Host) Claire and the gang we love so much. I'm a member and to me it's such a relief, it's such a relief gift to me to figure out how to give in a very safe and impactful and thought away. And as long as I make money, I'm going to give forever because I don't have to think about it. It's one less thing I have to think about because I know it's vetted, I know it's legit and I know the people come from their heart and soul. Wow, to me that's a gift.  14:23 - Anne (Host) Exactly, and you know, the cool thing about 100 Voices who Care is, honestly, it does not take a lot of money, and that's really what the big thing is, and it's literally $100, four times a year, and that's it. And ultimately that, combined with the community, the togetherness that is also in kind, donating that, that is $10,000 that can be given to people in need or organizations in need, and I think that that's absolutely wonderful and I think, really, whatever giving charity that you want, again giving that and then expecting that the people who are in need are receiving that and they're grateful for it right, that's what makes the world go round and that's what I think really giving is so easy to talk about, because I love to give myself and I mean I consider the VoBoss we're giving of ourselves joyfully, because it's something that we both love to do, we love to share, we love to be a resource, we love to help if we can, and that's what we're here for.  15:19 But I really really also want bosses out there to understand the importance of being able to see and acknowledge and receive in kind and be okay, it is for you, it doesn't have to be for anybody else, you don't have to feel compelled to turn around and give it somewhere else.  15:36 I fully believe that if a gift is meant for you and you love it and you keep it for yourself, you give in other ways, right? I mean it doesn't have to be that you have to turn around and feel like, oh, I either need to give that gift or give a portion of that gift, or you can keep it. I mean it's okay, it was meant for you and love, and that is something that I think is really wonderful. And, of course, I mean let's make it more from a business perspective, right, being able to ask for the money that you deserve for a job that has been well done is, first of all, when you do that yes, do that but when you get that actual money and you receive that money, then you'll notice that I feel like the cycle or the circle has been completed.  16:18 - Lau (Host) Yes, absolutely. And here's another one that is amazing but can be tricky in how it's received. You and I, I know I'm grateful and fortunate that we're nominated.  16:27 You and I and our companies for SOVA's nominations, which I'm thrilled I'm over the moon. So when I learned that now you've been nominated for years now that was my first time around being nominated when I learned that it challenged me a little I'll be honest with you. It challenged me. I had to sit there and go, well, okay, do I deserve that? Is that okay, do I deserve that? Was there anyone that deserves it more than me? Or, like it challenged me in a way, I was over the moon, thrilled. I love to be a part of it, the community be recognized. But at the end of the day, you have to sit alone with yourself and say I did this, we did this, I did this and I accept the good things coming my way, along with the challenging things as well.  17:14 It's like you have to have a little conversation with yourself about that and I'm very careful, like I don't want my head to be big. I don't want to be gloaty about it, I don't want to hold it over anyone else. I want to be very humane about the recognition that I slash we as the company get because I feel so grateful for it. I don't feel like, oh, of course I deserved it, I'm the best. I feel like that's going in a direction of morality that is not of high integrity. The highest integrity people are people who are humble and they're modest and they have humility about themselves and their work. Those are the people that I always have admiration for yeah, absolutely, I love that.  17:54 - Anne (Host) And receiving acknowledgement right Receiving acknowledgement is absolutely another important, very important, I think, factor in really having fulfilling and successful entrepreneurial journeys and businesses right.  18:08 I think a lot of times what happens? We get a lot of people coming into this industry that are so unhappy and there are jobs, because I always tell people in the corporate world all we really want is love. All we want is love and acknowledgement right Like validation. It helps to make money right so you can pay the bills. Absolutely, I mean that's first and foremost.  18:26 But I think a lot of times when people are dissatisfied with their work, it's because they've really put their heart and soul into it and nobody's acknowledged that and nobody has really recognized that or given them a compliment or credited them for that, and so that, I think, is one source of people really wanting to come into business for themselves. And so now when we're entrepreneurs feedback that we get and it's rare that we get feedback from clients right, unless we go out and ask for it, which I'm the biggest fan of, going out and getting testimonials right Get yourself that acknowledgement. But also, when it comes unexpectedly, it's something that I think we need to be prepared to just receive it and be grateful for it and really know that you're worth it, because there's something to be said about people who are constantly degrading or downplaying or shunning those compliments or acknowledgments or awards, and we did a podcast on awards. There's just there's lots of different opinions about awards. Do people need an award to do their business? Not necessarily.  19:26 But I'll tell you sometimes that recognition very similar to being in a corporate job or whatever it might be getting a little bit of recognition can really help emotionally. Mental I mean. I feel like everything in life it all stems mentally and then it kind of I'm going to say, pushes out physically, right. Like I feel like everything is in our head, like that's what is controlling the earth, right? Our thoughts, right, I feel it's our thoughts and how we feel about ourselves and how we feel about others and how we treat it. It just directly affects the physical everything and I think that it's so important.  19:59 - Lau (Host) I just rambled off on this kind of tangent, but I think it's all related, right, it's all related because if think of any relationship we have, like I love acknowledging, I love validating, I love giving compliments, I love that it doesn't only make me feel good, it's necessary, it's like, okay, we're going to be tough on someone, we're going to give honest feedback, we're going to say no to someone, we're going to be harsh at times, but it's really important to have those moments where you go you know what, I'm really proud of you. Or hey, you did it, Nicely done. I'm so excited for you.  20:34 Because otherwise I find people in general get really down on themselves very fast and then lose steam, lose energy, lose motivation, because they ultimately start to want to please or be liked by the casting, producer, coach, whatever, and it becomes personalized in that way. So it's like a fine line. I of course, want to have that no-like and trust factor. Of course I want to have that in the business world. But there's a fine line Like we don't want to be motivated to only be liked and only be validated, right.  21:11 Otherwise you're seeking to receive things all the time which are not earned they're not always well earned. They're just that little honor, that little star, for no reason. I want to live in a meritocracy. Still, I want to be rewarded when I'm earned.  21:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that you brought that up because you're right, Seeking to receive all the time is not good either. Being able to receive is one thing, but seeking to always have likes or stuff like that is also not healthy and doesn't create for a healthy business either. Right, when you're constantly seeking approval and I think that really kind of stems from other issues, like when you're seeking approval all the time, and that could be a whole other podcast Lau.  21:51 - Lau (Host) That is a whole other podcast approval. Yeah, how do we respond to all of the things that happen in our world that are not what we want or not what we're expecting to come back to us? How do we respond to those things Like not being nominated, not getting the award, not getting? How do we respond to that?  22:13 - Anne (Host) That always is a little pain, oh, always a pain, even when you know better, like myself, and we know we've been on both sides right when we want that acknowledgement, we want that award, we want that feedback, and sometimes it just doesn't come back to us the way that we want. And so how do we deal with that right? Again, that's not necessarily a rejection right of something that you're receiving, it's that you haven't received it. And so now, what? Now, what do you do with that longing, that desire, that hope? How do you get yourself back in balance?  22:44 - Lau (Host) That's right. That's right. Balance is really the key because the more balanced we are, the more we can easily give and offer and receive and take. And not do it from an ego point of view, not do it from this heavy ego centric, really do it from a place that's very balanced and very open and very like. It's like a give and take of Feng Shui. You know what I mean. Like you're cleansing Every time you give something away. I find when I Feng Shui my office or my studio and I give things away, if it's received well, I feel cleansed right, and if I'm receiving something, well, I feel cleansed.  23:19 There's like a cathartic thing that happens, a purification that happens if it's not coming from pure ego which. I love. I think it's fabulous.  23:27 - Anne (Host) I can talk Clear the clutter, clear the clutter, clear the clutter, physically clear the clutter in your brain. I mean it can really do a lot to propel you and your business forward. Absolutely, absolutely. What a really cool conversation Lau. I love it, I love it Beautiful I love it, guys.  23:43 And, as we spoke about before, 100 Voices who Care, simple Mission, big Impact 100 Voices, 1 hour, $10,000,. Guys, you can really make an impact. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Gosh, I love IPDTL, I just love IPDTL. They give us the opportunity to give and receive Lau at UNI back and forth for this podcast, and I absolutely love the fact that we can connect and do so. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  24:19 - Lau (Host) See you next time.  24:21 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VoBoss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Get set for an enlightening journey into the world of voice acting as we promise to help you crush confusion and self-doubt. Prepare to discover the significance of being in the present, letting your improvisation skills shine, and understanding how overthinking can interfere with your ability to take instructions and deliver exceptional performances for your clients. We also delve into the realm of imposter syndrome and how script comprehension can drastically boost your confidence. Listen closely as we walk you through techniques on warming up, shattering negative thought patterns, and building the courage to ask those essential questions that could transform your voice-acting career. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss Podcast and the business superpower series. I am here with my wonderful, awesome bossy co-host, law Lapidus. Hey Lau, how are you?  00:33 - Lau (Host) Hey Annie, how are you?  00:35 - Anne (Host) I'm great, it's so good to be back chatting with you. I mean, I feel like it's been forever. It's been forever.  00:41 - Lau (Host) I know, before we start, I have to give you just a quick direction. I hope you don't mind. We're on Riverside right now Okay. I just need you to hit button one so I can hear you a little clearly which button.  00:53 - Anne (Host) I'm sorry, which button?  00:54 - Lau (Host) There's a button there and it says one. Could you just hit it One?  00:58 - Anne (Host) But wait, there's multiple buttons, there's like three buttons.  01:03 - Lau (Host) Okay, your sound confused, I know, but I'm asking for one. Okay, but why not?  01:07 - Anne (Host) So if you could find the one and hit it, that would be great. Okay, but two, isn't two supposed to be the one that starts it, are you sure?  01:13 - Lau (Host) you don't want two. What If you do two? You're going to find that it's not the right button.  01:18 - Anne (Host) So if you could hit one, that would be great, okay, so should I press it now? Anne, you sound really confused, I am.  01:27 - Lau (Host) Law. I know it sounds like you need to be a member of our new Confucius Club.  01:33 - Anne (Host) The Confucius Club. I love it. Oh Law, you know, I'll tell you what we should talk about the Confucius Club. And when, let's say, your clients or students kind of challenge your direction and ask you and are very confused and are not necessarily listening, I would say to direction from.  01:56 - Lau (Host) It's frustrating. It is, I'll tell you, it's very frustrating for the onlooker, the listener, the audience, the director, whoever you're working with is very frustrating process and I want to talk to you today about maybe some of the reasons behind why that is happening and how to troubleshoot that, and why some people seem confused all the time about everything.  02:17 - Anne (Host) Yes, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. First of all, I want to talk about the confusion, and I'll also talk. Part of the confusion is when you've got somebody that you're directing and they'll say but that's not the way I hear it in the commercials, or I don't hear it that way online, and so therefore it turns into almost like a challenge to the director. And I think number one we are artists, we are actors and we are paid to do a job that essentially is for our client right, and the client is giving us direction, so why would we not follow direction?  02:55 - Lau (Host) Well, it brings us back to the old skill that we talk about incessantly, and that is the skill of improv, which is really the skill of living life moment to moment and being able to accept suggestion of stimuli around you that we don't always understand. Like we go into the natural world, we go into the technical world, we go into the human world. Do we always know what's happening around us?  03:21 - Anne (Host) No, of course not.  03:22 - Lau (Host) Right, but there's that element of moment to moment problem solving it, figuring it out, trying things, taking risks. So I think one of these areas that we're really hitting head on is, if you find you're that person that is confused constantly and just doesn't get it, are you stuck in your head? Analysis is paralysis zone.  03:46 - Anne (Host) That's a great point. Are you stuck in your head? Are you stuck with the sound that you hear in your head that you think it should sound like really, and not able to get that out of your ears so that you can be in the story and immersed in the story? And I will say that for a director or for a coach it's almost like but why? It's like those questions, but why? But I don't hear it that way and I think there's a whole scientific reason as to why we hear things differently.  04:17 When we're voicing something, then, let's say, the person that's directing us. Right, because we have to develop an ear. And what does that mean? To develop an ear for knowing when you're sounding the same or sounding like, you know, a commercial, or sounding not when you're immersed in a story. I think if you have the time to evaluate whether you sound a particular way, then you've spent way too much time thinking about your sound and not enough time thinking about the story that you're in or the character you're playing, or how you're going to be immersed in that, to story, tell or educate the listener.  04:50 - Lau (Host) Right and just basic biz 101 that we've covered a million times is who is this all about? Anyway, it's about your client, it's about your audience, it's about your target demographic, it's about the person you're speaking to. Thank you, the scenario that you're in is really about helping solve a problem, fill a need from an actor's point of view, but also from a business owner's point of view. If I'm stuck in my head and I'm in that confusion state, I'm literally not problem-solving for that client because I'm not actively listening, I'm not picking up cues and I'm not asking really important questions that need to be asked in order to serve them. It's really about who am I serving. Am I serving me? Am I serving my intellect, my ego, so I can understand what's going on, or am I serving you by clarifying it and giving you exactly what you?  05:45 - Anne (Host) want. And I think there comes a time too, when actors are in the moment they're being directed, live directed where they become so in their head determined to give a sound right that they can't get out of their head. How is it? Because I know my students have been like well, how do you get out of your head? How do you step outside of your head and get into the story? And I'm going to say, I'm going to ask you that question, but I'm going to preempt it with saying, from my point of view, you've got to do your research before. If you can research that script, analyze that copy, figure out who you are, who you're talking to, I think that's a good start. What sort of tips do you have? Law, when you're in the middle of a live session, how do you get out of the way? How do you get out of your head?  06:28 - Lau (Host) Yeah, it's so funny. It's reminding me about actor technique and having either an inside, locked in, psychological approach to the work or having more externalized, outside, communicative and oftentimes physicalized approach to the work. I find that both can work hand in hand. I don't think one is right or wrong, but I do think American actors it is a North American thing that we have been trained in the methodology of method for generations now to lock inside from here up and so all the stress, all the tension, all the worry, all the Confucius concern is here and really just not trusting the rest of your sphere that your brain is in your whole body, your heart is in your whole body, everything is flowing and connected. So if I'm locked in here then I'm shutting you out, but I'm also shutting out the lower hemisphere of my being.  07:25 - Anne (Host) Oh, I love that Law. That's wonderful. Your being is all a part of telling that story and being the actor and immersing yourself in that character I love that.  07:35 You're right, getting locked in your head. So are there some techniques that you have to? When you're in the middle of a session and I think you're right you're locked in your head and you get frantic. You're like, okay, this is not working, I'm not able to provide what the director is asking for. And then I think what happens is it just escalates, right, and then it just becomes worse. Until you can get yourself out of that. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Okay, that didn't work. Okay, so now what do I do? And so tips, techniques.  08:03 - Lau (Host) Law. Yes, one tip I have is a very old and dear broadcasting friend of mine, who did very well in the broadcasting field, who's a major newscaster, actually suffered from anxiety and depression for many years, especially after she retired, before she started her company. And one of the tips she talked about that seems so simple and yet to do it is magic is, she would say, when I wake up in the morning and I get out of bed and I'm a busy person, I always have things cooking and lined up I get up and I move and I physically do tasks. I don't stay in my head, I don't think about things, I don't sit in a chair, I get up and, whether it's making my bed or making my breakfast or showering, whatever, I physically move, and then somewhere in there I reach out to someone else. When I reach out to someone else, it breaks the negative energy that I have already recorded in my head, patterned after years and years and years of getting locked in my head, my brain. It breaks that energy and it forces me to think about the other person.  09:10 So one of the tips I have is get up and do tasks and then go connect to another person. It could be your mom or your best friend or your child or whoever it is, or your cat, and find out if they have. Or your cat, your dog? I was going to say that Do they have what they need? Do they have what they want? Are they happy? Did they have a walk? Did they get their bone? Has their water changed? Right, because it breaks that negative cycle of being locked in and getting confused, because then, all of a sudden, a lot of people talk about imposter syndrome and feeling like I don't know if I should be doing this. I'm all confused because you're locked in the negative recording pattern in your brain that is tricking you into thinking this is wrong, this is incorrect, You're not doing it right, you're not doing it right.  09:56 - Anne (Host) You're not good enough and all of that. Yeah, I love that.  09:59 Those are two tips I love that because that gives me a good excuse. I mean, lately I've been really working on it, but I've been working on getting up and as soon as I get up and just have oh, I have to have a couple of sips of coffee, but I try to get out and exercise for just 30 minutes to kind of just blow off the steam and to just get everything going and warmed up. And I think not only does that help me warm up my voice, because I think it's not just about your vocal cords, it's warming up your entire body, I mean every your head, your neck, your body, as you said, your whole being to allow that to flow. And I think, if you are just getting up and running into your studio and locking yourself into your head and then trying to deliver what you think the director wants and this is not easy bosses I mean we understand this that it's not easy to get out of your head sometimes it really really isn't, and it's just something that I think takes practice.  10:52 And again, it's one of those things that I think that sometimes we are just so impatient with ourselves and we think that it should just be easy, and it should, we should just be able to do it, and then, if we can't, we get frustrated and then we just keep that vicious cycle in our head, and so I think you just have to give yourself some grace as well to know that you're not going to be able to accomplish this by tomorrow.  11:14 I mean, if you're just starting out today, it is one of those things that evolves.  11:18 I mean, as humans, we are constantly growing, evolving and being, and I think that this is again one of those things where we have to allow ourselves to evolve, allow ourselves to really become the character, understand the scene and really just try to. If you're in the middle of a session, let's say, after you've gone out and I love the tips that you gave law got your body moving and then connected with somebody else and then came into the studio, and I think almost always well, I shouldn't say that, but a lot of times we do have the script a little bit in advance I think there's a lot you can do in five minutes with a script to really familiarize yourself and try to create a scene. Or even if you're not creating a scene, you're there and you're being live directed. You can certainly ask about the scene right, and that can help you to be in the scene versus to be in the sound. Like be in the scene, don't be in the sound. I love that.  12:16 - Lau (Host) I also would say too, when you're in those moments, give yourself one necessary question to ask If there's one necessary question that you cannot answer on your own. Your coach, your husband, whatever, cannot answer it for you. Give yourself the necessary question and write down the answer. When you hear what that answer is, but don't allow it to go into a slippery slope of questions. Allow it to sink in and, just like you would try any risk taking, move, like you would step off a cliff to go hair-sailing right. Well, you jump off the cliff and you float and you fly. Just understand. There is going to be that nuanced period for you of literally not understanding fully what someone is saying to you, but trying hard to problem solve it on your own. Yeah, yeah, because they're hiring you. They're hiring you to figure it out. They're not hiring you to have them figure it out for you. Yeah, absolutely, they really are, and I also think to.  13:15 - Anne (Host) I've had a few students that have said this. Where I'll be directing them. I'll say but I don't hear it that way. On TV when I watch the commercial, it doesn't sound like that. A lot of times I'll give references to, let's say, youtube videos of like real world, let's say corporate narration or real world commercials. And my student will say to me but I don't hear it that way.  13:37 And I always say to them well, that doesn't necessarily mean that I think it's well done or I think it's telling a story, or it really is how the director at the time wanted the piece to sound or to come out. And so it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to compare sounds and then say, well, because my sound doesn't equal that. Therefore, I don't understand what you're asking me to do. Why do I have to be in a scene I don't understand? Why do I have to ask questions? Why do I have to react? Well, essentially, because that's what's going to be giving your unique point of view, is going to be your interpretation on behalf of the company or the product. And again, as you mentioned before a lot, it's not about you or your sound, it's about how you're serving the listener and the client that you're also performing for.  14:22 - Lau (Host) Right, you're not an automaton, you're not an inanimate object. People want to work with you because they like you or you, they like your voice or they like what you're delivering. So they are running on assumption, a professional assumption that you know what you're doing. So the more you give it away that you are absolutely clueless yes, you're in the Confucius Club, you have no idea what you're doing the more they doubt your product and your value. You have to be careful. There's like a fine line there between investigating really smart questions to get the answers and then applying them and then just asking questions for attention or because you feel insecure, because you're unsure. You have to be really careful of that. They're hiring you for an expertise, of knowledge that they themselves oftentimes don't have. They don't have that craft. They're not an actor, they're not a voice talent, they're not oftentimes right.  15:16 - Anne (Host) You have to know what you're doing, and you certainly don't want those questions to be challenges to them. I mean, you're there to make their lives easier and to hopefully give them the performance that they're looking for, and maybe something that they don't even know that they want, right, exactly.  15:33 I think, if we start to really think that we're not being hired because of our voice and our sound and I keep going back to that, I feel like I'm harping on it but in reality they didn't hire us necessarily for the fact that we can sound a particular way, but mostly interpret the script and bring it to life yes, and that is really what we're being hired to do. So don't go in a session thinking that I want to make it sound a particular way. They're looking for a particular sound. No, you need to be immersed in the acting, to deliver the performance that makes it believable, authentic, and that is what you're being paid to do.  16:11 - Lau (Host) You took the words Annie out of my mouth, because how many times throughout the years that we've been in a session and we heard someone say something like I want you to sound like a rhinoceros, okay. And the talent says or maybe we're the talent, you and I were talent for many years and I'm thinking I have no idea what a rhinoceros sounds like. But instead of saying what does a rhinoceros sound like, I rely on my expertise and my vocabulary to say I don't know what that sounds like, but I know what they look like. I get a sense of them. So I'm gonna go with a really big animal. I'm gonna do my best elephant. See how they feel about that and they go. That's awesome, I love that great rhinoceros.  16:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah right, but you didn't tell them it was an elephant.  16:53 - Lau (Host) No, because right because they don't care about your process. They're not asking you for that. They're asking you for what you're outputting to them and they're gonna decide on that. But if I brought them in to my confusion, process of problem solving the difference between an elephant and rhinoceros, they'd be very irked by that. They'd be very annoyed by that. To say we're hiring you, we're paying you 500 bucks or 1,000 bucks or 2,000 bucks. You can't make it up, you can't figure it out right. So I mean, I'm using a simple example. But that could be a medical textbook, that could be an educational portal question that I've never heard before. That could be any kind of esoteric language that is not in my sphere. That I now have to quickly do my research, of course, do my research. But I'm not gonna learn a whole industry. I'm just gonna get some cues and clues and then I'm gonna create it, because that's what we do we create.  17:50 - Anne (Host) That's what they call us creatives.  17:52 - Lau (Host) We have to be creative in nature, right, In order to make people feel like that's what we're doing. And then one more tip I wanna give, and this is a toughie because it's a very non-PC tip. Sometimes you have to give in the old razzle dazzle. And that is you're an actor Act Exactly, act like you know what you're doing.  18:11 - Anne (Host) You may not know at all, but just try, just try.  18:15 What's the worst? That happens Absolutely. Now we've just spoken about okay, this is during a live session, right? And you're feeling like challenged and maybe panicked and not being able to deliver what they're asking for, and so how are you getting out of your own way? Now let's talk about you're in your studio and you're by yourself and nobody's live directing you and you are self-directing.  18:36 How do you get out of your own way when you're self-directing? Right, I have a lot of experience with that. I do a lot of non-broadcast, I do a lot of stuff that isn't directed and it's self-directed, and a lot of times I'll give my students homework, right, that is not live directed. So how are you, in your studio, all by yourself, getting out of your own way? That, I think, can sometimes be tougher. You're not necessarily under the gun, so much to do it under a certain amount of time, but now you might have all the time in the world and then you'll second guess yourself to death, right? So tips for when you are self-directing how to get out of your head and allow yourself your being to be.  19:14 - Lau (Host) Well, I got two right off the top of my head. The first one is like you, annie, are to me. I have a professional network of very close people that I love, adore, trust and work with. I don't want to drive them crazy and I don't want to call them every day because they don't want to hear from me every day, but when I get in that mode I can pick up the phone or jump on Zoom. I will have one of those people there who go Law. What are you talking about?  19:40 Just get out of your head try this, do this and I'm like thank you, that's all I needed. Thank you, that's all I needed. I also will jump on Google or Bing or DuckDuckGo whatever you're using and have some visual and soundscape inspiration. I like that, again, to get me out of what I think it is. I'm going to go to the library, go to the museum, go to the reservoir so that I can start choosing images visual, vocal that I can pull from. That'll help me get out of the paralysis that I'm in.  20:12 - Anne (Host) Absolutely Visual and audio. I love that Law because visual and audio external references are going to get you out of your head, because you'll be focused on something else other than just sitting there looking at your microphone and your head going oh my god, okay, I got it. Oh, that didn't sound good. And the soundscape, too, is very interesting, because a lot of times people can play music softly in their headphones and really get a different read depending on the type of music that's being played underneath, and so that, I think, is some really good hints. Go to Google research, research, research that product, that company, and you can get a lot of hints and clues from understanding what their brand is like and getting a visual look at their brand, because that might evoke oh, I'm a busy mom, or it's bright and happy, or maybe it's more serious, or whatever that is. It can get you into a different mood and that mood can affect your performance.  21:05 Right, going to be channeling a different character. I'm going to say I don't want to say voice. You're going to be channeling a different character, and as long as that character makes sense, right for the product and for the company, I think that that will give you that rather than let's make it a different sounding take. Let's make it a different take where you're in a different scene, you're in a different emotion, you're not busy and harried and hectic. You are now thoughtful and reflective. That can give you a couple of really different reads.  21:33 And then, ultimately, when you can showcase that to any casting director or talent agent that understands oh, there's an actor, that's what's going to get you hired. And then law I say this all the time you don't need me to teach you how to read pretty or to sound a particular way, because we all have that in our head. It's funny because I always say let me read it to you the way that everybody pretty much hears it in their head. And whenever I do that, my student will be like oh yeah, that's exactly how I recorded it. And I'm like good, I want you to give me something different, right? So how?  22:01 - Intro (Announcement) are you going to give me something different, right? I don't want it to be predictable.  22:05 - Anne (Host) I want you to bring your eating spin on it. And how is that going to happen? Change your scene, channel a different character. I love the whole getting out of your head and that was such a visual thing, law, that you did getting out of your head and allowing the whole being, because that just brings into play your whole body, getting into the character right, and that will have so much to do with a good performance.  22:27 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and what you're doing should be in a three dimensional sphere in your world. Unfortunately, it's all one dimensional if you're in a box and you're on a piece of paper. Hopefully, gone are not the days but when you had like actors, like Johnny Depp, who is trained in method technique, would go into the culture, into the scenario, into the environment, to live in the environment for a little while in order to figure out who the character is. Well, you may or may not have time to do it, but if you do have time to do it, go to the store and look at Play-Doh again. Get Play-Doh.  23:00 Go to the movies and remember what AMC is. Go to the company and see what the company culture is Like. It could only take you 30 minutes or an hour to enrich your whole reservoir to pull from when you're doing this kind of work and say, oh, I know what that is, I know what their attitude is, I know how they dress, I know how they talk to each other. I'm going to start to feel that and embody that so I can connect with you in a slightly more authentic way. Versus how do I sound.  23:29 Do I sound good? Do I sound like? One more thing, annie, I wanted to point out. This drives me crazy. This is one of my pet peeves that I've heard several clients say over and over and over again over the course of a long period of time Say I don't know what you're saying to me. I don't understand your feedback law. I'm not an actor. You're treating me as if I know what you're talking about in regards to acting or being a voiceover talent. I'm not really that and I said well, why are you standing here with a credit card asking me or others to work with you and become that? So this comes from my dear friend, joanne Yarrow. One of the great tips that she gives and exercises she does which I love is, even if you're just starting out, like just starting out, you're listening to this and you're going I haven't done anything. Call yourself what you envision yourself to be yes amen.  24:22 Today, say I am a business owner. Today, I am a voice over talent.  24:25 - Anne (Host) today, I am an actor. I am an actor, I am an entrepreneur and I run a voice over business.  24:31 - Lau (Host) Right, because it's not about making money or how many jobs you've had or who you know, yet it's about embodying the psychology of belief systems and manifesting you have limiting belief values. Yeah, if you're not manifesting an abundant belief system in yourself, then you're not playing in the sandbox yet. You're just not in the sandbox. You've got to get in there and play with the dolls and the trucks and the sand and figure out what it all is. But if you say, oh, I don't get dirty, I don't play in sand, I don't like trucks, I don't know why you're asking me about dolls. And I'll say, well then, why do you want to be a talent? Because talent loves getting dirty. Talent loves playing.  25:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that and I'm not even interested in that. I want to bring up a point that, no matter what genre you're studying these days so, so important these days no matter what genre, you need to be a voice actor. I don't care if you're doing e-learning, if you're doing like everybody that thinks well for corporate narration, you don't need to be an actor. I mean, oh my gosh, yes, even more so I think.  25:34 Because, corporate narration. You've got to hold somebody's attention for longer than a minute and so, literally no matter what you're doing, you need to be the actor and you need to study how you can be an actor in all different scenarios, all different pieces of copy. How can you bring those words, whether it's an e-learning module, a corporate manifesto or a medical pharmaceutical? How can you make those words sound authentic and believable and be in a world that can engage your listener? You have to, no matter what. So when you're studying with any coach, that's what you should be focusing on on the acting part of it, not just okay, I just want to get my demo and I want it to sound great so I can get work and that's it. In reality, no matter what genre you're studying, you should be studying to be an actor, and then those acting skills will carry over into every genre. Then you just have to the differences between the genres, understand the market, understand the nuances between the genres, but the acting is still acting, no matter what genre you're in.  26:40 - Lau (Host) And understanding that nothing you do is real, nothing. It's like I remember years ago when I was in the theater and the director would say you guys realize that you're standing in a box and people are paying a ticket to see you on a lifted stage and there's nothing that's real here and just that acknowledgement that, oh yeah, nothing in media is real. Nothing is real. It's the facsimile of life, but it is not actual real life. So what I'm doing is the old truth under imaginary circumstances it really is. I have to bring the authentic reservoir from my heart, my head, my body, my soul, my spirit, my history to a very artificial place. I can't mistake this artificial place as saying oh well, this is real, it's a real thing, I'm, I'm being. No, it's not a real thing. Right, the audience thinks it's real because they're suspending their disbelief. You're setting a really profound convention for them where they can believe it. But you know, it's technical, it's all technical, right, If you don't do that groundwork and you're confused all the time about it.  27:51 Then how can you bring any kind of truth into a technical, artificial, imaginary circumstance? Well said.  27:58 - Anne (Host) Well said, woo Woo, my bossy co -host. I love it, I'll tell you Good stuff.  28:04 - Lau (Host) I think we said it all and after all that, I'm still confused. Are you confused? Which button did you want me? To push, I think, a one. Can you press one? Yeah, you know what Law.  28:14 - Anne (Host) I'm going to push one now. After that, all right, awesome, yeah, just push one. Oh goodness, bosses, as individuals it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group and together, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Get 100 VoicesWhoCareorg to find out more. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. I love IPDTL and the fact that I get to connect up with bosses like my awesome, amazing friend, law Lapitas, and all my clients. You guys can find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys, bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, enjoy, bye.  28:59 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VoBoss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Pre-distribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  29:48 - Lau (Host) That was interesting.   

What fuels your entrepreneurial spirit? The key lies in having a robust support system. This week, Anne & Lau talk about the indispensable role of support in the journey of entrepreneurship. They explore how the encouragement from our loved ones serves as a pillar of strength during challenging times, and discuss ways to navigate situations where support is shaky or absent. They also dive into the essence of financial independence and the peace it can infuse into relationships. Unraveling the secret to keeping your business finances organized and the wonders of a dedicated workspace, they guide you on a path of entrepreneurial success. Entrepreneurship can often feel like a lonely journey, but remember Bosses, you're not alone!   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I am here with the one and only, most beautiful, Lau Lapides.   Lau Lapides: Oh, thank you Anne. Hey   Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau.   Lau Lapides: everyone. Wonderful to see ya.   Anne Ganguzza: Law, I've been very reflective this week.   Lau Lapides: Oh,   Anne Ganguzza: Yes.   Lau Lapides: I love that chair.   Anne Ganguzza: Very reflective because I was thinking about, oh gosh, I've just been reading. There's so much chaos out there in social media and stuff, and I was thinking to myself, I feel so lucky to have my supportive group that supports me in my business. I know that not everybody has that.   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I thought we should talk about your VO support group, people that support you, and especially people close to you and your family. I don't know where I would be if my husband did not support this endeavor of mine, because it really does, it really takes, I think it takes courage because... Being an entrepreneur, running your own business, it's so much different than the corporate life that I used to lead where   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I just got paid every other week and I could depend on that paycheck. And I know that the way that this industry just kind of is up and down and crazy, it takes a lot for   Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: someone to support that.   Lau Lapides: And gratitude is great. And   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: we really have to have, honestly, we have to have gratitude. It's so important to just celebrate the moments that we do share with our loved ones, our family, our friends, our colleagues, our really our circle, you know, our inner circle, our   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: outer circle that really helps support us. And like reflect as you said, where would we be? without these people would we be where we are? And I'm going to be even non-PC for a moment and say, where would we be without these people simply tolerating us? Like think about that. Like what person slash woman you know would even say such a thing. But the truth is it's hard. It's a hard life in a lot of ways.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, so   Lau Lapides: And   Anne Ganguzza: many   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: ways.   Lau Lapides: difficult. And we show the stress of it at times.   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: We show the impatience, we show the fast moving, we show the exhaustion. And to have that group, that circle, not only support it, but tolerate it,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: when they may not be experiencing that, they may not live that kind of lifestyle, they may not even understand it, but yet they're tolerating it, they're welcoming it, and then they're building you up. That is unbelievable when you have that on your   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: side.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah. And I think there's so much that as bosses, right, that we don't anticipate having to experience or know or, I guess, go through when you own your own company. There's just so many things that I think, I don't know if you can prepare yourself. Do you know what I mean? You can prepare yourself for, you know, I guess technically, right? You   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: know, oh, it takes, these are the steps that you need to, you know, create a business entity. These are the steps you need to market your business. These are the steps. So there's these technical steps that we follow, but then if things don't go the way that we hope them to go, right,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that can just throw a whole wrench into... the business and in your mental outlook. And that is something that I think I was unprepared for, the uncertainties of it and handling the uncertainties of that. And then of course, anybody that supports me   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: has to go through all these emotions with me. And that is asking a lot. So again, I'm very, very grateful that I do have that support. And bosses, I mean, I know this is difficult, and you may not even know, right? Down the road, what sort of things could happen that might, I don't know, change the way that your support system feels about voiceover or being a voiceover entrepreneur, and especially these days with the disruptive technologies that are out there. I can't imagine, I do know that there's a lot of people that are... uncertain about what's happening in the future. And so I think their support system is also like seeing that, reading that. How do you, what would you say for people that aren't experiencing support from their family? What can they do?   Lau Lapides: Gosh, I was just about to ask you, this is the rhetorical question of the day is like, what do we do when we don't have the support or when we feel completely alone or when we have a partner or a spouse   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or even a child or even a best friend that is sabotaging your dreams   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: getting in the way, maybe they're sucking all the time. the energy from you. Maybe they're dragging you down in the   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: mud with their own problems, maybe, right? And you think,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah?   Lau Lapides: wow, who is there with me to go on this journey and really help me through, support me through this? I don't really have that many   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: people to do that. And I think there are a couple things that we can do to sort of band-aid that situation. I'm not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm.   Lau Lapides: so sure you can ever totally fix it, but the one thing I would like to suggest, and I have a few clients like this too, sneaking around the bushes so that their husband doesn't find out   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: that they're spending the little bit of tertiary income on   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: on lessons.   Anne Ganguzza: coaching or yeah.   Lau Lapides: I say listen you know um it's easy for me to say listen just be brave and just tell them and just   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you know stand up to it but I'm not in that relationship and   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: I don't know the the dynamics of what's going on so in essence I don't really have the right to say that one thing I can say that has worked for me in many times of my life is If there is someone that is not working out, they're not positive minded, they don't have the forward thinking, upward mobility energy   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: I crave and that I want in my connections, I simply cut them loose. Not in a bad way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: in a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: toxic   Anne Ganguzza: a toxic   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not in   Anne Ganguzza: not in   Lau Lapides: an   Anne Ganguzza: an   Lau Lapides: angry   Anne Ganguzza: angry   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: but in   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: way   Anne Ganguzza: a way   Lau Lapides: where   Anne Ganguzza: where   Lau Lapides: I sort   Anne Ganguzza: I sort   Lau Lapides: of prioritize   Anne Ganguzza: of prioritize that   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: they're   Lau Lapides: they're not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: going   Anne Ganguzza: going   Lau Lapides: to   Anne Ganguzza: to   Lau Lapides: be   Anne Ganguzza: be   Lau Lapides: taking   Anne Ganguzza: taking   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a lot   Lau Lapides: of my   Anne Ganguzza: of my   Lau Lapides: time.   Anne Ganguzza: time.   Lau Lapides: They're not going to be. forefront in my life because I have to keep my goals alive. And finding those, we talked about this once before, those growth people. Where are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: those growth people   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that can help me through that I can soundboard to, that I can vent to, that I can learn from, that can help me grow and also validate me? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: really validate the choices. So finding whether it's an accountability group or self-help group   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or just a friend that is also working on a career where they're   Anne Ganguzza: where they're   Lau Lapides: moving   Anne Ganguzza: moving   Lau Lapides: up,   Anne Ganguzza: up   Lau Lapides: but   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: others   Anne Ganguzza: others   Lau Lapides: are   Anne Ganguzza: are. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: holding them down, is to help each other grow and get to the next step.   Anne Ganguzza: Right, right.   Lau Lapides: Get a buddy.   Anne Ganguzza: And I, well, I'll tell you what, and I think that that's absolutely something that if you are not getting support, let's say from your spouse or significant other, that I think is almost critical for you to, you know, to survive in the industry. Because I know I've had a few people that I know where their spouses were not in support and consistently   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: were dragging them down.   Lau Lapides: I have two.   Anne Ganguzza: consistently demanding, you know, where's the money going? Why are you not making any money? You know, you need to help support the family, get a real income, or whatever it is, right? It's hard enough to run your own business and to deal with the uncertainties that you face with your own, maybe, insecurities, in maybe, I'm not familiar with this territory, and I need to learn more, and I need to, you know, what do I need to do to make it? to make it successful, let alone having the people around you, right, trying to bring you down or sabotage you, as you mentioned. So   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: very difficult. So it's super important to have that support somewhere to keep you lifted up and to keep your momentum going forward   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in that situation.   Lau Lapides: And you know what I've seen too, more often than not, that the family or the close people to this   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: person, it's not that they're unsupportive or they're against them. It's just they're not actively or proactively doing things to make their path easier. So   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: I'll give you an example. A mom who's got children, whether they're young children or whether they're teenage children, whatever. I've heard this from several of my clients, like it took forever. And like, don't you have a setup? Where's your studio? Where's your   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: desk? Are you setting up a mic? Months and months and months and months would go by. I'd say, what's going on? It's not a money issue. No, it's just, you know, I can't find space in my house. You know, my   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: kid needs the space for football and my other kid needs the space for this. Then my husband wants the space for his disc. And then   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and I said, well, wait a second. Where's your space? Where's your studio?   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Where's   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your identity? So it's that idea of that liberation and that freedom and that courage to say, I count too, I matter too. This is not the only role I play   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: as mom   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or dad,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mom or,   Lau Lapides: since   Anne Ganguzza: do   Lau Lapides: we have   Anne Ganguzza: you have   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a spouse?   Lau Lapides: of dads   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: at   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: home too.   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: Dad, I'm not only dad, I'm not only a breadwinner. I'm someone who's a creative, I'm an   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: artist, and I wanna be a talent, and I'm moving towards this. So I have to have the respect zone   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: of   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: my   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: space and really claim that. That's actually, I've seen that a lot, Ann.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I've seen   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: that more often than not.   Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. And it makes it doubly hard or triple difficult for, I think, these people to gain traction in the industry because it's almost like they have to prove themselves before they'll get any support.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: You know, well, when are you going to get a voice-over job? I mean, when are you going to book something? That kind of a thing. And so it's always an uphill climb to get that space, that recording space, to get that that, you know, they have to either go out and get a part-time job so they can make money so they can pay for coaching, so they can get a demo. But I'll tell you what, I would say that the majority of my clients who I have found that have done that and have persevered. through that have been some of the most successful   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: voiceover businesses that I know now because they have the resilience   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and they had the commitment and through it all they persevered. and were   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: able to finally, you know, and not only prove to themselves, but end up proving to any of the members of the family that we're not necessarily as supportive as they could have been, that this is a viable career. It is a viable, you know, it is a viable thing for me to do and to make money at it.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And you just said it earlier, you know, don't just ask, ask. You got to give too. So don't just ask for space and what you need. Be willing to work a little harder. Be willing to work   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: extra.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: One suggestion I'd like to make too that seems kind of like, oh, but isn't that like a 1952 thing? No, it's not. I'm not suggesting to separate all of your finances in your life. That's how   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: whatever you're gonna do with your spouse, with your partner is what you're gonna do. But I'm just talking about our career, your career, your space as a talent, have separate finances. And that way, not only can   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you track for your tax purposes and your studio expenses, and it keeps it really clean for your bookkeeper and your accountants at the   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: end of   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: the year, but it also keeps this anonymity or privacy about not having to ask permission of the other all the time   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: to get what you need or what you want for your career. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that should be your choice and your independent choice and if it comes down to money, well maybe you do need to get another   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: side job or another   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: hustle or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: another whatever so that you can have that privacy ready to go when you need it rather than depending on allowances   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: from others.   Anne Ganguzza: And I love that you said that. And I think honestly, if you want to talk about the single biggest thing that I think that is lacking from the clients who don't get the support from their significant other spouse, it is the financial aspect of it. And so yeah, and I always look before there was even voiceover.   Lau Lapides: Hmm?   Anne Ganguzza: I don't know what it was, but personally when I got married, I always had my own account. I had my account, you know, I was on my own before I met my husband. We met each other late in life. And so I, you know, I had my own account. I owned a house and that kind of thing. And what I love about that is it made me financially independent.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I was able to, when my husband and I got married, I just said, well, I'm keeping my account and you keep your account and we'll just have a joint account that we both will   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: put   Lau Lapides: yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: in.   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: But nothing has to go into the main account unless we decide to put it in. We both kept separate accounts. And I was able to keep track. And first of all, it makes it super easy when you are creating a business, right, to keep your   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: business finances separate.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: And that's kind of cool because any of you that might have trouble explaining, Why do you need a separate account? Well, it's a business, right? So therefore   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: you have a separate account. You can do whatever you need to do to put money in that account so that you can make investments, take the money out of that account for coaching, demos, studio space, whatever it is that you need to grow your business. And I think that that has really been something that for me, I mean... They say that a lot of couples argue, and money is the number one thing that they might argue about. I can't say that I've ever argued about money   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: since having an independent account. And   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: having the respect that I have one, my spouse has one, and we also have a joint account that we throw money in, if we want to take a vacation, or we want to landscape the backyard, or whatever it might be,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: we... put into that account, but there's   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: no expectations.   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: And I think   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: such a great suggestion law for anybody that might be experiencing difficulties or lack of support from a significant other, is just go and open that business account, right? Because you need one anyways, in order to incorporate or run that business efficiently and effectively.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And then this was a running joke between one of my colleagues and myself at my studio. It was like, well, I literally, law, literally could not find any space in my house for my studio. I   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: couldn't, it either had a technical issue or my kids were there or the   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: TV was on or the dogs were there. I said, great. Now you need to get a she shed.   Anne Ganguzza: Yes, absolutely, as   Lau Lapides: Or   Anne Ganguzza: she   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: said.   Lau Lapides: he shed   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: or a they   Anne Ganguzza: Uh,   Lau Lapides: shed. I   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: don't care what pronoun   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: you use, but you need   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: a shed.   Anne Ganguzza: You need a pronoun shed.   Lau Lapides: Yes, you need a pronoun shed that is an independent structure that stands on its own separate from your dwelling   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Because I am a person of no excuses. I just don't think there's an excuse for not being able to work I think   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: like if you   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: have a problem fix it like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: make it into this well, but it's expensive Well, it's an investment. It's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: a write-off.   Anne Ganguzza: right.   Lau Lapides: It's not a cost, it's a write-off. And it's your private space.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: You can decorate   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: it. You can put up whatever you need to put up. You can scream. You can do   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: yourself tapes. You can do your MP3s. And it's freedom for you. And I think that if you can't find anything in your apartment or anything anywhere, they say, wait a second, I don't own the land law. I'm in an apartment. What do I do there? Well,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: think about that. Where can you go? that you can either build something   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or you can rent something by the hour. Now   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: people are dying to get you into their podcast spaces and their audio spaces to rent by the hour because so many people are at home that   Anne Ganguzza: that   Lau Lapides: they   Anne Ganguzza: they   Lau Lapides: can't even   Anne Ganguzza: can't   Lau Lapides: rent.   Anne Ganguzza: even rent.   Lau Lapides: You can   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: go to places like workspaces and staples   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: all sorts of places really cheaply. and rent by the hour. I mean, is   Anne Ganguzza: Is   Lau Lapides: it a fix forever? No, but   Anne Ganguzza: it a fix forever?   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: No. Yeah.   Lau Lapides: in the interim,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: it's good   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: now until you figure out your next move. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: there's always an answer to   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, there's always a solution. I truly believe there is always a solution, if you want it bad enough, right? I mean,   Lau Lapides: Hehe,   Anne Ganguzza: gosh,   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: we travel and we record in hotels. So   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: pillow forts. I mean, there is a solution, pillow forts. Uh. and the right mic and the right interface will get you, you know, a place, your car.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: If you can go to the car, that can be a studio. So I think where there's a will, there's a way. And I will say that, you know, having that, definitely having that independent financial account that allows you to, you know. draw upon that for investment into your she shed, into your renting of a studio, or your rig that allows you to go to the car to record and do your auditions. Whatever that might be, I think that there is a solution for it. And in the interim, I think it just, the tenacity and just keeping through it, making sure that you have support somewhere. that can keep you lifted up, going towards, heading towards your goal. I think that's just very, very important. There's a lot of wonderful supportive communities here. At VOBoss here, we're here to support you. Accountability groups are amazing.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: Community groups are amazing. Lots of great Facebook groups out there. I've got my VOP's group and Law, you've got your group   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: as well. And, you know... And Bev Stani has the water cooler group, which is just kind of fun if you want to get together with other voice of artists. I know there's so many wonderful accountability groups that can really help in that situation. And yeah, I mean, I   Lau Lapides: I   Anne Ganguzza: think   Lau Lapides: think   Anne Ganguzza: there's...   Lau Lapides: too, Ann, along with that, like hand in hand, depending on what your belief system is, sometimes you need spiritual groups as well.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Sometimes you need people that are going to lift your spirit, whether you're religious or not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: religious, whether you wanna talk mystical or not, but you find the right match for yourself that helps you build the courage up, that if you are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: alone and on your own and you're   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: isolated and you're not accepted in the family, your friends circle, that there are groups out there that are going to help lift you up as a person, not   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: just as a talent, but as a human being in the world to give you courage. And one more tip I got for you too is, and we will all want to do this, we have to be really guarded about it, like don't overshare. Be careful.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: Don't overshare with people   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that you know are going to tear you down.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: They're going to put up the walls as to why you can't, shouldn't.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: not supposed to do things,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: don't share too much with those people. Let the sharing go to the people who are like-minded, people who are going   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: to raise your spirit,   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: raise your vibration, and get you excited about it versus   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: the people who are going to give you every reason in the book why not to do it.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and why you can't and why you won't succeed. Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: So, yeah, absolutely. What's the wonderful advice law?   Lau Lapides: So exciting, right? Like where there's a will, there's a way, but it's really true, there   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: is. There's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: always a way to do things that you love to and want to and deserve to do. And just having the knowledge of like, write down your mantras, write down   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your affirmations every morning, stick them on your fridge or wherever you stick them and say, I deserve this. I need this. I want this. I matter. And just believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: And then you'll get it if you believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: And guys, I'm going to say, like, this just transcends even just voiceover industry. This is for anything that you want to do,   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: right? As entrepreneurs, as bosses, I mean, whether it's voiceover or something else that is aligned with voiceover or acting or whatever it may be, I truly believe that you can... you can get the support where there's a will, there's a way. And I love that you brought up the spiritual aspect of it too, because it is so personal, right? It does affect us being an entrepreneur, and not just a voiceover actor, not just an actor, but being an entrepreneur and running your own business and having a dream and pursuing that dream. It is something so personal to us that, you know, it- It transcends just voiceover groups or voiceover, you know, accountability groups or Facebook groups. It really, you just need to have the people that can help lift you up no matter where.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: No matter where you get that. And, you know, spiritually is amazing, is an amazing source   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: of being able to have a group of people that can lift you up and support you when you need.   Lau Lapides: Yeah, and give yourself that little bit of extra self-care   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that you may need, that you may   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: be missing in your life, whether it's a massage treatment or   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: an extra whatever, so that you've got that extra bit of health, of mindset, of balance that you need to get stronger and find the right people to get on your side. And you'll absolutely do it. People have come from really, really challenging backgrounds   Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah.   Lau Lapides: with nothing and have become everything.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: So it really is mind over matter for sure.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah. What a great discussion, Law.   Lau Lapides: Beautiful.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I loved   Anne Ganguzza: we have   Lau Lapides: it.   Anne Ganguzza: the faith in you, bosses. We definitely,   Lau Lapides: We do.   Anne Ganguzza: we have faith in you. And again, VOBoss, we're here for you guys. And, you know, go out there and believe in yourself. Find people that will help support and lift you up. And yeah, I love it. I love it. And   Lau Lapides: You can do it.   Anne Ganguzza: guys, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, We can certainly contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. Also a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses using amazing technology. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau Lapides: See you next week.

Anne & Gillian continue their discussion on Boss Equipment Necessities, providing even more valuable insights on what essential audio equipment you need in your booth. They discuss the importance of selecting studio headphones that offer both comfort and accuracy. They also delve into the convenience and limitations of USB microphones, as well as providing a comparison of costs and quality of audio interfaces. Additionally, they share tips on where to get tech support and test gear in person. You definitely don't want to miss this conversation...   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show today creative freelancer, audio engineer, musician Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series.    Gillian: Hello (laughs).    Anne: Hey, Gillian.    Gillian: How's it going?    Anne: It's going great. So we've had some really intense conversations about our home studios. First of all, talking about where to locate your home studio in your home, where good place is, a little bit about sound absorption. Then we had a really cool, interesting episode, I think, on all the equipment that people don't think about that's required to run our voiceover business. Now we're gonna talk about all the obvious ones that I think people always, they love to talk about these, and --   Gillian: This is the exciting stuff.    Anne: I think the other stuff is exciting. I think actually people don't get excited enough about the other kind of technologies. So --   Gillian: I mean, (laughs), we know you're gonna marry the internet.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: I have a spiritual connection to unboxing Apple products.    Anne: Yes, there you go.    Gillian: But the air quotes exciting stuff that everyone loves to harp on. Yes.    Anne: I dare say that I have a spiritual connection to my headphones, (laughs) to my headphones, and, and I know that people are always asking me, what are your headphones that you wear? Because I love wearing colorful headphones because it's part of my brand. And I actually have like all different colors of headphones right here with me.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: I've got a lovely deeper blue here.    Gillian: You guys, if you're not watching, go to YouTube right now and you gotta see this.    Anne: Then we've got the royal blue here, which I love, and then of course I've got black. I actually have an alternate pair of the red ones and okay. So I think, can we talk about headphones (laughs)?    Gilliann: Yeah. I mean, let's start.   Anne: I've already started.    Gillian: So we talked computer, you have your computer, you have your internet connection, you have your isolated space, and it's soundproofed to whatever fits your budget and what you need right now to be isolated.    Anne: And your internet connection and website.    Gillian: Oh yes.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: Yes. Oh, and website. Yes.    Anne: And website.    Gillian: That is definitely important. Headphones. So important because you can't, you can't be playing out loud while you're recording (laughs).    Anne: Now here's the thing, there's reasons why we wear headphones. Okay? So what are the primary reasons you wear headphones, Gillian?    Gillian: Well, just in my everyday life, there's the convenience of being able to listen to whatever I want and to be able to hear that. But for recording, when you're recording voice, if you are playing out loud what you are recording, you will get feedback. And I don't think you will on the scale of a small computer, but there are a few studios that I've worked in, and when I was very new and prone to making mistakes -- obviously continue to make mistakes and learn from them — but when we had big speakers and we were recording in the same room, you definitely get a nice ear cleaning with that high pitch feedback. Because having an open source, you're DAW, armed and ready to record, and that -- it just creates a loop of sound, if you think about it, what's going into the mic, coming outta the speaker, into the mic, outta the speaker, and that just ruins it.    Anne: So well, okay. So there's a big debate in the voiceover world about, do you need headphones while recording? Because there's a lot of people that say you do not. It helps you to sound more natural. Okay? And of course you don't wanna have your speakers on either or your monitors.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's what I'm thinking of. But this is interesting.    Anne: Yeah. So do you have your headphones on while you're recording? Because a lot of times, it's distracting listening to yourself, what you sound like in your headphones. So for me, okay — some people adopt the whole, I'm not gonna wear my headphones at all because it makes me sound more natural. I'm not listening to what I sound like in my ears. Some people do one ear on, one ear off to help that as well while they're recording. And some people wear them. Now I, years ago, started wearing them because I had a lot of sound outside of my studio. And I needed to be able to put my headphones on to hear if it was going to come through in the recording. And some things like my naked ears couldn't hear like the vibration of the truck that was a mile away coming down the road, and somehow vibrationally it came up through my studio. And the jackhammer that was maybe not right outside my door, but down the road because they were constructing new homes.    So for a long time I got used to wearing my headphones just to make sure I could step in the studio to make sure that I couldn't hear those sounds coming through my microphone. And then I just continued to wear them. Now I've done both, take them off when I'm recording or keep them on. A lot of times, if you think of it this way, (laughs), and this is not a popular opinion, I will have my headphones on while I'm recording because I feel that whatever you hear in your headphones is just you amplified. And if you are an accomplished actor that can act like you, without paying attention to what you sound like in your headphones, you can wear headphones.    And for me it's something that, it's kind of on a day-to-day basis. I'll probably wear my headphones more often than not, just because I've been doing this for a very long time, and all I do every day when I coach is tell people not to listen to what they sound like and to just be themselves. And so I wear my headphones. Plus I do a ton of editing, I do a ton of coaching, and so I need to, and I don't have monitors, number one for the very technical reason is honestly I just don't have space. I don't have space to put a nice pair of monitors on my desk. So I wear my headphones when I edit.    And so headphones to me have to be comfortable. And they have to be studio headphones of course. And that should be a given. Anybody, any BOSSes out there that are just starting in the industry, make sure they're studio headphones, and they're not any other type of headphones that's gonna add more base or more treble or that adds prettiness to it. You just need studio headphones so you can hear the raw output.    Gillian: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation. I think my advice is gonna be the same as always. My advice is just try 'em all and see what works. I personally, when I am singing, I do one ear on, one ear off, mostly for pitch, because how you sound in your head, it's all relative and different. I think that there are some things to be concerned about. Obviously if there is extraneous noise coming on your recording, you wanna be aware of that. But if you're connecting to a client, really if there's an engineer on the session, they should catch that. Like, that's my job when I'm working with talent. Another issue, sometimes I hear the movement of headphones, but I've never really asked talents what they're doing. And maybe it's putting them on and off, but there are a lot of moments functionally during a session when a director is gonna wanna get your attention. And so if you're just rocking without headphones, that's something to just consider.    Anne: Yeah. You'll have to hear them. And you just said something, I don't mean to interrupt, but you just said something that made me think the physical sound of your headphones. Believe it or not, if like -- these headphones, the exterior is, there's some plastic components here. As they get older, believe it or not, if I move my head, because we're very physical as voice actors behind on the mic, as I move my head, they make noise. And that noise comes in through my recording. And I, I remember for the longest time there was this tiny little click, and I was like, I don't have a mouth click. Where's that coming from? It was coming from my headphones. And so for me, I found a way to, I actually had bought a new pair of headphones so that they didn't -- they weren't really squeaking, but they were making plasticy noises. And I know that's not a technical term, but it's a noise where like if I do this (clacking nails on headphones) --   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne: — you can hear that. It wouldn't be that loud, but it would be something similar to that. And so --   Gillian: Interesting.    Anne: Yeah. For those of you guys listening to that, I was simply just squeezing the headphone earpiece with the headpiece together --   Gillian: To get that plasticy --   Anne: To get that plasticy sound.   Gillian: — noise sound. Well, there's another thing that I've noticed with headphones that's important to note -- just this is more function than which headphones to get. But, and it could be 'cause people are taking them off. But a lot of times I'll be working with the talent's audio from a session we just did, and through their recording I can hear everyone else talking. And this doesn't really happen during the recording, but I can hear myself slating things not recorded. So I don't know, if you're taking your headphones off and you're putting them down, you gotta think about, okay, if someone starts talking or if there's other noises, those are gonna get directly into the mic. Or if your headphones are too loud, there's gonna be too much bleed. So just things to think about when we're talking about headphones.    Anne: Two good points. I wanna actually go back on that, right? If you put your headphones down and obviously you're not hearing (laughs) other things, right, other noises can come through them. And also you mentioned bleed. Bleed is important because right now I'm really, really close to my microphone. And depending on the volume that you have your headphones turned up to, and I'm a little older so I might need a little higher volume. And so sometimes you have to be careful that the sound coming through your headphones doesn't bleed back through your mic. And for that reason I have closed headphones. And that's why I recommend closed headphones for most voice actors, if that's the case. If you're gonna be sitting out just doing editing all the time, I don't think they need to be closed backed. If you're just gonna use 'emfor editing.    Gillian: If you're watching us, I have open back headphones. But I just got these recently, these are like the Sennheisers, I think the HD 600s. That's what I thought. And I have these mostly for mixing and I I listen through them 'cause they're really comfortable. But my closed headphones, I also have AudioTechnicas. They were my first headphones, like pro headphones; they're amazing. The pair that I had was under a $100. I've had 'em for years. They're amazing. So whoever is saying that you need really expensive headphones for amazing sound, you don't. There's lower models that are great and then you can upgrade. There's a whole range of AudioTechnicas that get more precise or, or just have different features that you can invest in if you wanna spend more. But there should be no barrier to getting, I think they're $70 or something like that, which --   Anne: Well, I'll have to tell you about mine that have the color. because people are always asking me. And I do have, I do have a studio gear page off of AnneGanguzza.com and as well as the VO BOSS page studio gear that I recommend. And by the way, I don't put anything on this page that I don't use or have not owned. And I will say that I love AudioTechnica headphones as well. And of course before this turns into an AudioTechnica podcast -- which it's amazing, there's lots of great headphones out there. The one thing that I love about AudioTechnicas is for me they're super comfortable. I literally wear my headphones when I'm on coaching days and I'm coaching eight hours at a shot. I have them on my head eight hours. Because again, like I said, I don't have monitors in my room and plus my husband works upstairs, and so I wanna be able to keep things at a minimum. And so they have to be super comfortable. I have to be able to hear the talent, right, to be able to direct them.    So for me, they are amazing. They're a little more than $100 because of the color, the special additions they are the MX 50s and in whatever color -- I don't believe they make the red anymore, but if you're lucky you can find them somewhere, somewhere out there. There'll be an extra pair that somebody has that's still new in the package. I've bought three pairs of red 'cause red is discontinued. My royal blue has been discontinued. Every year they come out with a new color. And so every year I find it necessary to buy another color just because I'm on the camera a lot and I love -- and they make me happy. Right? If you're gonna have on your head for a long time, they should make you happy.   Gillian: And comfortable, most important.   Anne: Yeah, and they should be comfortable.   Gillian: -- don't need a headache.    Anne: — be accurate as well. Right? So for that reason, the AudioTechnics are my faves, and I do own a pair of Paradynamics. I've owned the Sony, oh gosh, I think it was the 7507s, I believe. And the one thing that I didn't love about the Sonys, although I love the sound, was the actual cable that connects was a twisted cable. And what happened is they never traveled well. They became entangled within themselves. And if you've ever had a coiled wire get tangled in itself, and you try to pull it apart, it's horrible. It just gets twisted onto itself. And so I love the AudioTechnicas 'cause they always have the straight cable that you can use and it doesn't get twisty. And that may seem like a very silly reason to love the AudioTechnicas, but that's one of many reasons why I love that. But it's a viable reason because the twisty turn coiled cables, they're not fun to get them untangled when they get tangled, especially when you travel with them and you're trying to wrap them around --   Gillian: No.   Anne: — the headphones.   Gillian: Definitely not. And something to think about when we're talking, all of these things are essentials. And I'll just tell a brief, brief story, but the other day I was doing a session with a voice talent, and we were having all of these issues. I still don't know -- I was on the session, but I wasn't the head engineer of it. So I don't know exactly what happened. But we think that between when we were testing with the talent to when we pulled the client in, their headphones broke because they magically could not hear us.    Anne: Oh wow.    Gillian: And you need to have an extra pair because you can't be on a session without having an extra pair of headphones. It's super — and I'm sure we'll say, and I know, Anne, you've said before in the past, you need backups of your backups. But definitely even if you have your splurge pair and you have a less expensive pair just to use in case of an emergency, there could be a chance that you're on a session, and in the middle it breaks, and you can't continue the session without the pair of headphones. So just don't forget about having some, a little insurance on your sound.    Anne: Yeah. And you know that, it's interesting that you mentioned that, and I talk about headphones so much because when I'm connecting with students through ipDTL -- and this would be just like me, I would be the studio and they would be connecting through Source Connect or ipDTL — you have to have headphones to avoid that feedback. when you're connecting via those methods. And simply earbuds are not the best because sometimes they don't fit your ear properly. There's bleedthrough and honestly closed back headphones are probably the best for any kind of studio session you're going to have.    And I just say yes, I totally agree with you, Gillian, about the backup. Because I have had people who like all of a sudden they're like, oh, I can't hear you. And I'll be like, do you have another pair of headphones? And at that point if you even have a backup like set of EarPods works but in a pinch. But really have an extra set of headphones in case that happens. Because the last thing you want is for you to lose connectivity with your client to be able to hear what they're saying and to do your job. I mean it is part of your job. So have a backup, and honestly most headphones are not expensive. I, I'm going to tell you the AudioTechnicnas, even these, the new versions that they come out with are about 160 some-odd-dollars. The navy blue ones I just bought were like $169. So they're not tremendously expensive at all. And I know you can get some fabulous head phones for less than $100 for $99. I think that's what my Sonys were that I bought. So well worth the investment.    So in terms of headphones, make sure that they're studio headphones. Make sure -- I like to say close back if you're gonna be using them for any kind of recording at all 'cause you don't want the bleedthrough. If you're gonna sit there and edit all day, yeah, maybe open back or others will work fine for you. Make sure they're comfortable for your head. And especially if you wear glasses 'cause you don't want them to push in on the glasses and then have the glasses give you a headache. That's the last thing.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: All right.    Gillian: Okay. Should we lightning round a little bit the rest of some of the other things that we might need?    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: Because I know, I know what I'm thinking.    Anne: Microphone.    Gillian: Microphone. Yes. And we'll do a whole episode on microphones about the different types and and what kind you might need. I personally always say large diaphragm condensers for voice actors. There are amazing -- you know, everyone knows the TLM 103 that's upwards of $1000. There's also amazing mics that if you're a beginner, and you're not ready to invest that much money, that will not sound exactly the same but will be a large diaphragm condenser mic and will do the job, will make you sound great.    Anne: Absolutely. I used an NT1, a Rode NT1 for at least six years of my career full-time before I bought a 416. Actually I bought the TLM 103 and then I bought a 416 as well. So now I have both of those in my studio. But guess what? Also sitting on my desk here, I have a USB AudioTechnica AT 2020, and that works for some of my other connections. Believe it or not, that works for my Clubhouse connections because my Club Deck software doesn't like my audio interface so I have to use a USB mic and it makes me sound a whole lot better. And so those USB mics, they come in handy for lots of applications. Maybe not for your professional recording but for other applications that help enhance the sound of your voice.    Gillian: Yeah. And here's the -- I'm not going to say that people shouldn't use USB mics. I mean the audio engineer and me, always, I love an interface and a mic just because. It's so funny, I wrote a whole blog post on this so if you're interested you can go read my blog about the core differences between like the functionality of what a USB mic or like a USB and interface does, and the pros and cons of both, 'cause there's pros and cons of both. When you have the interface, there's more things to know, there's more things that can go wrong. There's just —   Anne: One more thing in the chain    Gillian: — sensitivity. Yeah, exactly. But if you are interested and you want a USB mic, there's definitely options that will make you sound as good as you need to sound to start out. And I don't wanna get on here and say that you can't book a job or get started in voiceover using a USB mic, because there's so many uses for it. And once you upgrade, if you choose to upgrade to an interfacing mic, then you have that other option to use for things like, like --   Anne: Any mic.   Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: That's what I love about. I think really if you've got, I say for any voice talent in a pinch if you have to, you can use a USB, if you've got a good recording environment, in a pinch, but it's not recommended. I would say even if you're traveling, I've tried it all. I do have, I've got a great Tula mic, which is a USB mic and it's amazing. So if I have a good space, you know, my little Tula can hook up USB, and I can get a decent audition. I wouldn't necessarily use it for any type of work that you wanna send to your client, broadcast type work, but in a pinch, like absolutely.    But for every day kind of voiceover I recommend condenser with an audio interface. And again, you don't have to have the $1000 mic. There's lots of great mics and there's so many discussion rooms and forums on what mic should I get? But I also have recommendations that I think work. It really depends on your voice and your comfort level, and work with a vendor that you can send it back if you don't love it.    Gillian: So important that you can either -- I mean I know in big cities -- I'm not entirely sure ‘cause I haven't done this in a while, but I know I'm in Guitar Center, I went there all the time growing up to play the instruments, and I know that they have a mic room where you can try stuff. I know that -- I'm pretty sure it'd B and H in New York City, you can try mics there, but I love Sweetwater. You can chat with agents there, you can talk to them. I'm pretty sure they have a great return policy because if you get the mic and you're investing all this money and you don't love it for your voice, even though everyone on the forums is saying it's top VO mic, don't keep it. Find something that makes you sound great because no one in the end is gonna know what mic you're using. They're just gonna know how you sound.    Anne: Well, exactly. And I also think though it's worth mentioning that if you get a mic and you want an assessment of what you sound like, Gillian, my goodness, like what you do all the time, the sound assessments, right?    Gillian: Yes.    Anne: Gillian can absolutely give you an assessment of how your voice sounds with that particular mic in your environment. I think there's a lot of things at play here. It's your environment and also the mic, and there will be a difference. So for me, I can say, you know what, I like the way this mic makes me sound, but I haven't recorded a file with it and sent it to somebody. Because again, sometimes if you're just starting, it's very difficult. You don't necessarily have an ear yet. Sending it to someone like Gillian is very important, who is, you know, this is what Gillian does; she's an audio engineer. She listens to sounds all the time and every day so she can make an accurate assessment and also tell you if this suits your voice or this doesn't suit your voice.    And I really believe that you also have to be happy with it. And don't forget, there's some people who mistakenly think that, well, I can use this mic and then I can process my voice to make it sound even better. And in reality as a voice actor, that's not what we wanna do. I mean, we simply wanna be able to give the cleanest recording that we can, and maybe our mic should, like what sorts of things should mics do for our voice? You know what I mean? They shouldn't change our voice, but they should enhance our voice.    Gillian: Yeah, they should -- I think I said this in the first episode we did together, but microphones are microscopes picking up your voice. And so every mic has a different capsule in it. It has a different way of processing, whether you're using dynamic mic or ribbon mic, all the different types of mics, they all react differently to sound. And so some people love singing on ribbon mics because it's quieter, it's more sensitive. I have a super cardioid condenser microphone that I, I love using on my voice and I tried the U87, all these other things. So it's really about, and this is a difficult answer because it's like you need to find what works for you because the mic that makes Anne sound great might not make me sound great. And all the processing in the world — obviously you can EQ it and change it a little bit, but really it's like finding a pair of jeans. Like you gotta find one that fits you and makes you look and feel your best. Maybe not look but jean analogy sound like you.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You know?    Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I don't think that there's any mic that will make you sound better than you. I mean your whole goal is really to make you sound the best that you can sound. And there's lots of mics -- and again, you could have a really like inexpensive mic in a great environment and sound amazing. You can also have a very expensive mic in a poor environment and sound horrible. I remember back in the day before I really had secured my environment sounding as best as it could, I purchased a shotgun mic, and it wasn't a 416, but I purchased one of the knockoffs and I actually hated it. I hated the way it made my voice sound. But I found that once I got the 416 and I had my environment, I love the way it sounds now.    And it's really interesting because before I was like, well I held off getting a -- it's why I got the TLM 103. And for me now I realize for my voice, the TLM 103 is a little bit of a brighter sound. And the 416 will pick up a little more of the bass sound, and that's typically true for most voices. But again, until you try it, you're not gonna really know, and it really has to be up to you. And again I think sending sound audio files to engineers who have the ear, who this is what they do, like Gillian, is really worth an investment to get the overall assessment on yes, this mic is good for you. Or also it will help you to determine if maybe (laughs) like how many times, I think we talked about this, Gillian, somebody might have had the installation of their mic backwards, and they were speaking into the back of the mic versus the front of the mic.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: A lot of times people don't sidedress their mic, right? They're speaking right into it. So there's a lot of plosive. So there's a lot of things that, Gillian, you can help talent to assess with their sound. And most people think it might be a mic problem, it may not be a mic problem.    Gillian: Yeah. Sometimes it's really simple stuff. Your room sounds really loud because your gain is up too high and you're not close enough to the mic. So it's picking up everything. Or it's on omni when it should be on cardioid, or you're facing the wrong way. There's so many things that someone listening could hear if you have a trained ear. Before we go, I know we have to go very soon, but don't forget your pop filter for your plosives.    Anne: Ah yes.    Gillian: So important.    Anne: Oh my gosh.    Gillian: I know you have like the pop filter shield sort of thing. That's what it looks like. Looks like you have, if you're using an interfacing mic, you need an XLR cable to connect the two. So important 'cause how are you gonna get from mic to interface from point to the other? So you get your mic, you get your interface, you don't have an XLR cable, you can't work. A mic stand. So important. What are you gonna do do without a mic stand? (laughs) You can't hold it.    Anne: Well, exactly. You really can't. And I think that again, more equipment besides your mic stand, I actually prefer --and this is just me, I always tell my students for me and my studio, I like the boom arms that can be mounted on the wall. Because a mic stand to me, I can't tell you how many times I've heard talent like trip over the tripod-like feet.    Gillian: Oh my gosh. Lemme show you my cute little stand.    Anne: With their mic. Yeah.    Gillian: I have this like, everyone watching, this like cute little baby stand that I just put on my desk. I think that those are really smart, the ones that clip right on. This little guy just sits on my desk and I can take 'em wherever.    Anne: Okay. Well, that's if you're sitting at a desk. But if you're standing and you have one of those tripod-like standing mic stands…    Gillian: They're hard to maneuver. Yeah.    Anne: They're hard. They're hard to fit in a lot of studios. I used to trip over mine all the time, so I basically have boom arms that I mount on the wall in my studio. They save a lot of space at my feet when you don't have a ton of space. And also, like you said, you can't hold it. And then we do need to mention the most important thing from the mic, right, that goes into your audio interface, your audio interfaces, and then everybody has questions. What's the best audio interface? Now I have been through the gamut of audio interfaces, but the main job of your audio interface is to translate the analog signal that comes from your microphone into a digital signal before it goes into the computer. Correct, Gillian?    Gillian: That's what it does. And typically it does both. It does the analog to digital conversion and then most audio interfaces have a headphone jack. So really we monitor off our computers, but you can monitor off of there where it goes digital right back to analog for you to listen to.    Anne: Oh right. Absolutely. I wasn't even thinking of that. You're right, because that's where my headphones are plugged in all the time. I started, gosh, I started with the Personas. And I'm trying to remember, I think I probably at one time had a Scarlet Focusrite, which I don't love those interfaces -- and I know we had a conversation in one of our podcasts about interfaces. I then, when I bought my studio here, I have a Mackey because I was intending to be able to do talk back to people in this booth to rent this booth. And ended up having a technical issue with that, which I sent it, it got fixed, it was under warranty that is now my backup interface.    And then I purchased an Apollo. And my Apollo, I have a mostly love relationship with my Apollo because of the plug-ins that work with it, which I absolutely love. But however, when we talked in our last episode about computer and keeping your computer up to date, well the (laughs) latest version of Mac OS is not up to date with the latest version of the Apollo. So you just have to make sure that you are aware of what's happening. The one that I recommend in terms of like a really great price, and I think works for the majority of people is the Steinberg UR22. And that is like about a hundred and — I wanna say $170. And I had one that I used for years, and it was just a workhorse and I love it. And that does all of the conversion, versus Gillian, if I'm correct, in saying with a USB mic, the conversion happens at the base of the microphone, right? So converting analog to digital. So there's a chip there that's doing that conversion.    Gillian: The biggest difference between the two is that when you use an interface, the mic just gets to be a mic, but within the USB mic it's all happening. And usually you'll see a little headphone jack too. It does A to D and then D back to A conversion.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You pay less and you get everything is gonna be slightly lower quality because you're paying for --   Anne: You gotta fit into a tiny, little --   Gillian: — a microphone — all of the conversion, all of those things in one small device versus, you know, separating them out. So that's kind of where don't use USB mic comes from just because you can get higher quality with the separate.   Anne: You have so many more choices. Right? Because you can have a Focusrite or a Steinberg or an Apollo.   Gillian: You get to mix and match.   Anne: And you can have whatever microphone you want (laughs) connecting up to it.    Gillian: The other thing that I love about that is that there's room to upgrade. So let's say you wanna splurge on a really expensive mic and you're, just, you know, oh, I wanna start with this interface. Or vice versa. You wanna splurge on an Apollo for $1000, but you wanna use a $200 microphone and then say I'm gonna wait a couple years and then upgrade. Personally I've used Apollos, I've used UAD. I kind of struggle with the software issue even though I've used the plugins. They're awesome. I like Focusrite stuff. I like the Scarlets. I think it's great. I think voice actors really only need one input, possibly two. If you wanna have two mics set up just to switch between, you know, a shotgun and a large diaphragm condenser, if you want 'em at the same time. I like Apogee as well. The Apogee Solo and the Duet, those are great too. Those work really well. So those are my faves.    Anne: I'll just disagree with you on the Scarlet only because I've just had a lot of voice talent that have had bad luck, and I think mostly it's -- and I myself have thrown away two of them. And I think mostly a few years back, I think they used a bad chip set. I'm not sure what it was. Or they created these bundles where you got headphones, microphone, and interface all in the same package. And I think they used lower quality parts. And what would happen is voice actors would find, all of a sudden they'd get some sort of a noise or hissing, and nobody knew what it was, and it ended up being the interface. So for me that just kind of, I tossed that one to the side and said, I'm not gonna recommend that one anymore. But Scarlet, typically Focusrite had an impeccable reputation there for a while until I ran into bad luck with it past few years.    I think if you buy a bundled package, (laughs) meaning from a manufacturer or something, especially at Costco, as much as I love Costco, right, there are packages made, packages that are made for Costco. Sometimes they use cheaper parts in those, and sometimes you'll find that the quality won't last as long. Sometimes though you'll buy stuff at Costco, not necessary technical equipment, but you'll find things at Costco that's better (laughs) than you would find at other stores. But that's just my personal experience.    Gillian: I see. I've never had any bad experiences with Focusrite. I've used the larger hardware as well, the professional studio models of stuff. And those sound amazing. I think I've had a lot of friends and myself who've used the Scarlet interfaces and haven't had issues. So, that's my experience. And it's so funny, I've been wondering why people don't recommend bundles because I wouldn't buy audio gear from Costco (laughs). But there's a few places, like Sweetwater is my favorite place to buy gear.   Anne: Yeah, but they'll bundle individual pieces together. Now, I'm talking about manufacturers that create whole bundled sets of things together.    Gillian: Well, Sweetwater is awesome. And B and H, they also have some great bundles. And with Sweetwater specifically, if there's a bundle you like, but there's a piece of gear you don't like, you can reach out to them personally and swap it around and get a discount from sort of buying in bulk. And they have some pre-made stuff so that if someone was trying to set up their home studio, didn't know where to start, it gives you a little place to get started.    Anne: And one thing I will say before we go, one thing that I love about Sweetwater is you get tech support. Oh my God, that is like unheard of these days. Like if you don't know, if you're having a problem installing the interface, you can call them up and get help. And that to me is invaluable.    Gillian: They're amazing,    Anne: They're wonderful to work with. So.   Gillian: Yeah. Very knowledgeable. I love Sweetwater. It's my favorite place to put my money. I have a few friends that work there as well, and all of their employees are highly trained and they know --   Anne: Very educated --   Gillian: — about the gear. It's like a prerequisite to work there.    Anne: Wow. We could go on forever, but, uh…   Gillian: We could.    Anne: Good stuff, Gillian, thank you so much.    Gillian: Thank you. And for anybody who is interested to get your audio assessed by me, I know we did a few episodes about it, but if you missed them, you can just head to my website, GillwiththeG.com. It'll, I'll be linked down here and I have some audio assessments. I have a little free course on, on setting up your home studio and a few blog posts or a bunch of blog posts just talking about different audio things if you're interested in learning more.    Anne: Awesome guys.    Gillian: So hungry for knowledge, (laughs).   Anne: And Gillian is a BOSS. Otherwise, she wouldn't be on the BOSS — she wouldn't be, she wouldn't be on the BOSS podcast. Anyways guys, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys -- oh, and a big shout-out, before I forget, to ipDTL, who is our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Join Anne & Lau as they provide expert insights on overcoming self-sabotage and building powerful connections in the voice over industry. Learn to bring your authentic self to every performance, acknowledge negative self-talk, and rise above self-doubt. Discover strategies to take control of your negative self-talk and move past excuses to help you excel in your voice over career. Anne & Lau will also guide you on how trying new things and getting used to small failures can help you break out of a perfectionist rut and take your voice over business to the next level.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hello, BOSSes. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS superpower series with my ever so special guest,(laughs), Lau Lapides.    Lau: Thank you, Anne. Hello. How are you?    Anne: How are you? Oh, awesome. Look at us. How are you?   Lau: Jinx.    Anne: What is that punch? What is that? Punch Bug. Punch Bug?   Lau: (laughs). Wait, what is that show? Uh, Wonder Twin powers, activate.    Anne: Activate.   Lau: Form of --   Anne: Right? Business superpowers. Activate.    Lau: Activate.    Anne: Activate.    Lau: (laughs) Ooh, I love that. (laughs)    Anne: Speaking of superpowers, activating, sometimes I find that my students have a hard time activating their superpowers, and I'm a firm believer that everybody has superpowers in the booth. However, it takes a lot to get past things so that they can activate those superpowers. It's like they get in their own way. Right? Get out of your own way.    Lau: Yes. Get out of your -- if there were a place, if there were a waiting room that we could leave ourselves in when we go into the booth, or a camera, or an interview, or wherever you're going to do your work, we could leave ourselves there and not worry about it until we come out and get ourselves again — that would be a good thing to do.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so tough. I think I always go back to what we do is so personal, right? Our voice is such a personal extension of ourselves, and we're being asked to bring ourselves to a performance constantly. But yet, there are times when we cannot do that, right? In reality, we think we're trying to bring the performer, right, to the performance, but in reality, we want you to bring yourself to the performance. And I think that is what most people have the hardest time doing, getting out of their own way so that they can bring themselves to that audition, to the booth, to the read, whatever that is. And so how do we get out of our own way, Lau? I mean, I think it's a struggle that everyone that gets into voiceover encounters at one point or another.    Lau: I mean, I think that this is a struggle that we encounter throughout our lifetime, whether we're a voiceover talent or not, but certainly actors of all kinds are always going through identity crisis, always going through, who am I now, and am I good enough? That old imposter syndrome?    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.    Lau: And one thing that I always do, and I do this for myself, and I recommend this as a coach as well, is self-talk scripting. I think self-talk scripting is really important to do. And you guys, you can do this, and you can do this all day long, and you can even do it in your head. But I recommend you start out by doing it on paper and write down your negative script. That is the thing that you are saying to yourself in the moment that is really negative. And then I want you to convert that into something that's positive and probably closer to the truth.    Anne: I like that.    Lau: Yeah. It just gives you a step.    Anne: And hang that in your studio. Hang it in your studio.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So you see it. Yes. Absolutely.    Lau: Yes. And so it can be revolutionary in the sense of saying, wow, if I'm moving towards some sort of enlightenment in my personhood and in my career, I have to be authentically who I am, which means I'm flawed. I'm not perfect by any means, and I'm not even close to it. I'm a real person who's interesting and diverse and complex and sophisticated. So when I have something that comes in my way to self-sabotage my success, I have to stop and recognize it. I have to take accountability for it, and then I have to change it.    Anne: And I think number one, for people really just starting off -- I think people that have been doing this for a while, they understand the process. But the first thing that people will do is judge how they sound. And we've talked about this so many times, right? They're like, oh, I don't like the way that audition sounds. And I don't think it sounds like what they want it to sound like. And that right there is your self-sabotage. The fact that you're saying, okay, it needs to sound a certain way, and you're not in any way thinking, how can I bring myself to this read? Or how can I bring my person to this read to make it unique, to make it something that will really perk up the ears of the casting director and really tell the story. That's what gets in the way, I think, a lot of times.    Lau: And even as part of that, like if you're having a piece of copy in front of you, a script in front of you, anything written in front of you, that gymnastics that a lot of times you may go through in saying, I don't know if I wanna do this. I'm not ready for this. I don't really know what this means. And I've never seen — all the stuff, all the excuses we start to come up with --   Anne: Oh, so many excuses.   Lau: -- to procrastinate from getting to the job.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? I'd love to come up with that first before we even open our mouth. (laughs). Like, what do we say to stop us from getting to the point of doing the job?    Anne: Well, I'm gonna say, stop like talking to yourself and beating yourself up about how you sound and spend that time instead getting out of your way. How can you get out of your way constructively? Well, there's a little thing called Google(laughs). Anne GanGoogle says, Google. Right? Especially if you've got a script and you've got some clues in that script that can help you find out more about what that script, that content is about. Because to bring yourself to that party, you've gotta involve yourself in the story of the script. And the more you know about the story of the script, the more you know about the brand that's involved in that script, the more you know about these little clues that are in the script, these little sayings or nuances, the more you can educate yourself on that, the easier it's gonna be for you to bring your point of view to it.    Lau: Hmm. I love that. And add on to that, have your circle ready to go. Who's your circle? Your coaches, your family, your friends, whatever. Just have people there that you can call upon to remind you about your greatness and your fabulosity.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Now, make sure they're not gonna rip you down. Make sure they're not gonna rip you apart and make you self-doubt. Because if they do that, then it's counterproductive. You want people who are going to keep building you up, building you up, building you up, so that you have the confidence to face what you need to face. It doesn't mean they're lying to you. They may not even be in the industry. They may not even have the industry knowledge, but you wanna have that circle of people there for you to call upon to say, you know what? I don't feel great today, or I don't think I sound great. What do you think? And they say, I don't hear anything wrong with your voice. Your voice sounds great. So what's your deal? And it makes you just stop and get out of your head. I would say get out of your head and get into the world.    Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Definitely you need your network, your VO family. And honestly, as we were discussing before, in a weird sense, I'm gonna say you are more than VO. If you just take a look at the words voiceover, right, there's really not much substance to voiceover in words. It's like a voice, but in reality, you are so much more than just that voice. I mean, you really have to start establishing yourself or thinking of yourself as much more than just the voice. You are the actor, you are the entrepreneur, you are the business person.    And with that, I think, comes a sense of something that you can bring to that read or that script that is more than just thinking, oh, it's just about the voice and then stressing yourself out over and over and over again and beating yourself up about how it's not -- what am I doing wrong? Or why is nobody listening to it? What is the feedback? And absolutely reach out to that network, network of coaches, network of accountability buddies that you have to get you out of that funk. Because sometimes it is a funk.    Lau: It is. And much of the time, that's all it is. I would even say, do something. Okay? And what I mean by that is, be active and be in action. The moment you're inside your head oftentimes will be inactive, right? Now if you're thinking you're active, but I want you to be interactive. So meaning the moment you have that thought, you need to cut it off by physically doing something. Whether you move to another room, whether you call someone up, whether you go out and take a walk, whether -- whatever you do, you need to break that also with physical energy. It's really important. Because that heady stuff weighs us down and we actually get cut off from the rest of our body.    Anne: Yeah. What a great piece of -- we can go home now, Lau. That was a wonderful piece of advice. (Lau laughs) Absolutely. Sometimes just getting up, taking a breath and deep breathing, getting out of the studio. I always like to pet my fur babies. Go see my hubby. Or just do something that gets you out of that, out of that funk, out of that mental -- and you're right, physical can really be a wonderful way to get yourself out of that funk. And when you get out of that funk, and you can actually start to get into the story, get into whatever it is, the dialogue, whatever it is that you are working on in your booth, magic will happen.    Lau: I love it.    Anne: I always say to people, when it's right, you feel it. You don't hear it, but you feel it. And that's where I think, every once in a while, when you get that script and you just feel it. And it's like, oh, damn. You don't know quite how it happened, but you felt that it was right. And I wanna say that's what we should always strive for, right? Just that feeling that, yeah, I hit that, that worked. And then even if you, let's say, don't get that audition or don't get that gig, be proud of the fact that you have evolved. That's such a beautiful, wonderful feeling, when you're like, oh yeah, that was good. That was really good. And you can feel proud of yourself for that.    Lau: Yes. And do a little VO feng shui, meaning do two things. I want you to think up a new idea and learn a new technique that is the implementation of the idea. So it could be something very simple like, oh, today I'm going to, oh, I wanna reach out to this company or these people. I'm gonna reach out to these people in this way. And then I have a new technique for doing that, because I'm gonna do a drip campaign. So that to me is a little feng shui of the spirit of you and your business. You don't have to do exactly the same way every day and get into a rut. You can really say, this week I wanna try something new. And I sat with Anne, I sat with another coach or whatever, and I learned a new idea, a new technique, and now I'm gonna try it.    Anne: Well, I love that you just brought it out of the booth and into your business, which is great. So getting out of your own way doesn't just mean performance-wise in your booth and acting wise; it also means in your business. So getting out of your own way in your business. And I cannot tell you, there's so many things, Lau, that a lot of people in their business don't like to do because, number one, maybe they're not familiar or they're not educated, they don't know how to do it, and so therefore they don't do anything. Or they will simply just say, oh, I can't, I just can't possibly do that. I don't either have the money or I don't have whatever the excuses are. And I've heard them all, right? And money is a big one, and I get it right, as BOSSes running a business.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: I totally get the money thing. And we've had multiple episodes about money. But I will say is that you have to open your mind for abundance and open your mind for the fact that you need to invest that money and also save that money so you have money to reinvest in your business. And that can help you. Just that alone, money, get out of your own way. Right? Get out of your own way with money. Get out of your own way with marketing. Get out of your own way with all the things, maybe cold calling or whatever it is that can help to grow your business.    Lau: I'm feeling an Eleanor Roosevelt quote coming on (Anne laughs), and I have to release it --    Anne: I love it.    Lau: — so I don't explode.    Anne: Release it, please.    Lau: Here it is. Here it is. I just have to do it. Okay? It's like, do one thing every day that scares you.    Anne: Oh God, yes. Oh, I love that quote.    Lau: Okay. And I'm not saying, God forbid, don't jump off a building. I'm not saying that. I'm saying within the framework of who we are as talent and as business, do one thing that kicks you a little bit, to do something that's a little uncomfortable that may even really scare you and see what happens on the other end of it.    Anne: I'll tell you, that's hard. That's not an easy thing to do. And especially if you've been doing this for a long time. And there's so many, and I'm sure, Lau, you get this a lot too. I hear from a lot of students how they're, they're stuck in a rut. Or I'll do consult calls. So people will say, I, gosh, I've been in voiceover for years and I'm in this rut. I need help. And this is great because you're reaching out. Right? But when you reach out for that help, you then cannot say to me, okay, I can't do this because of this, or I can't do this because of that. Or can you give me the quick 15-minute answer? No, that's the other thing. In a 15-minute, 20-minute consult call, I can't give you the answer to all of life's issues. Or how to run your VO business. However, I can say, here's what I suggest to help you to get out of your own way.    Lau: And if anything, grab a buddy. Grab accountability buddy. Preferably someone in your business because they get what's going on. They feel it too. They're living it too.    Anne: Oh yeah.    Lau: And move through the tougher experiences together.    Anne: So powerful.    Lau: Like hold each other accountable.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: You know, have that coffee together weekly or biweekly. and say, you are gonna do this and it's a lot of money. And it's kind of scary. Well, did you do it? So let's do it together.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Sometimes we need that collab. We need that ensemble thing to get us going. I know I'm a creative, I love ensemble. I need that team oftentimes.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: I don't think you have to apologize for that. We're not an isolated being; we don't have to just work alone. We have wonderful people. Like you're on another whole coast, 3000 miles away, and we hold each other accountable to showing up, to giving our all, to caring about our audience, to being awake, to throwing on our lipstick. I mean, that's all hard work. It doesn't look like it is, but it is, because so many would rather lay in bed. They'd rather watch TV. They'd rather go the easy route. Go the difficult route.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: You know, challenge yourself; there's a lot better stuff waiting on the other side of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna come back to, again, what you said about writing things down. I'm a big believer -- I love that you said to write down the negative thoughts and then cross it out and write, like write the absolute opposite of that.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: Turn that around. And I love that because I'm the person that likes to write and cross things out as I accomplish them and get them done. So if you have those negative thoughts, write them down, cross it out, and turn that thought around. And also with anything that you've done in terms of not just negative thoughts, but in terms of accomplishments, I think writing down your accomplishments can really work wonders for helping you to gain confidence and to get out of your own way. 'Cause I think a lot of times when you get in your way, it stems from fear and it stems from a lack of confidence. And reading something that is solidly written down, an affirmation, or even like meditation every day, right, can really help to beat that negativity out of your brain.    Lau: Hmm. Oh, these are great. And I do, one thing I love that I learned from a wonderful coach that I worked with, do a brain dump. Try to do it every day if you can. It's just a five-minute sitting at your table, your desk, in your car, and I want you to write, write, write, write for five minutes, time yourself, five minutes. Don't pick the pen off the paper. Write, write, write, don't edit, don't critique. Get everything in your head out on paper. And that's gonna feng shui your head, that's gonna empty your head and leave room for focus.    Anne: I love that. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.    Anne: That's a quote, Lau. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.   Anne: And get out of your own way. (laughs).    Lau: Because you don't ,believe it or not, you don't have to believe everything that comes into your head. You know? We get backed up. (laughs)    Anne: And the biggest -- ‘cause I took a feng shui course, by the way, back in the day and it was one of the best things I'd ever done, is that clutter? Right? If you have clutter in your house, you have clutter in your brain. And if you have clutter in your brain, I love that. Do a brain dump so that you can then start to think clearly.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: And then start to really focus on what you need to do to get out of your own way, to make that marketing effort, to create that website, to go ahead and get that additional coaching, to audition for that job that you're scared about and out of your comfort zone. Wow. All that good stuff.    Lau: Yeah, 'cause we don't wanna hold so much in our head and be balancing all of that and then try to give output that is like high productivity. It's very hard for us to do that. We have to release certain things and get them out there that are not priority for us or that are sabotaging us. We gotta get it out. Sometimes you even just like clean your desk or rearrange something. You know?    Anne: Absolutely. Or when you come into your studio, clean your studio, or do the brain dump before you do your auditions for the day. I love that.    Lau: It's awesome, it's awesome.    Anne: A lot of times when we're in the middle of an audition, if we're stressed out about other things that are happening, that's coming out in our voice, right? And so we really just need to (breathes), you know, do a brain dump, do a few breathing exercises to relax, and really focus on the story at hand, which is not gonna be like, I don't know, what you need to finish up or when you have to start dinner or what you have to do at home, or what's stressing you out.    Lau: Yeah. And how the things in front of you, whether they're affirmations or mantras, or you just write a little sticky note to yourself to remind yourself -- like one of my famous sticky notes that I love is that I'll just look just for a second and it'll say, you're enough.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Stop trying to be perfect. Stop trying to be too much. Stop trying to be everything to everyone. You're enough, you're enough. And it's just a quick reminder. Like we need those quick reminders when we're busy and all of that, to not overload ourselves with stressors that are not necessary. They're really concocted stressors that ultimately tear us down and get in the way of our productivity. It stops us.    Anne: And I think also when we meet people, new people, right, I feel as though, I mean, hopefully anyways, I'm a fairly good judge of people, I think. I use a lot of gut instinct and intuition, and I feel as though that personality that I meet when we meet for the first time, if I initially connect to that, that is what I think you need to get to that level in your booth or in your business. Right? That this is who you are, this is your personality. This is, and I always like to say that if your personality comes from a place of service from the heart, I really feel as though that can benefit your performance, that can benefit your business.    If you are coming from a place that doesn't have a bunch of stressors from here and there. And it's really just coming from a place of, let me service this copy. Let me be the best business, let me be the best voice that I can be, and let me network with my client to see how can I help? Instead of coming from a place of what is my talent? I'm not talented enough, or my voice isn't good enough, it needs to come, like, how can I best service my client? How can I best serve my business by bringing myself and my heart of service to it?    Lau: Hmm. Oh gosh. I just love that. That gave me tingles. I love that. That's great. I would even push that even farther. And I would say, find a moment that you can sacrifice or give of yourself in a selfless way, because we wanna be selfish. We wanna be self-centered. We wanna get, get, get. Find a moment where you can authentically give. And that is a moment that when you start doing that, it's kind of painful. But then you get used to it and you say, wow, I got so much in return. So like for instance, when I was a working talent all the time, before I became an agent and a coach, I was working talent, I would talk to people and create all sorts of relationships with casting, and they'd say, you're just not right for this, Lau. I mean, you're just… I'd say, well, right, okay.    Anne: Yeah. And then worry about it ever again.   Lau: Guess what I'd come back with? I had so much chutzpah now that I think about it. (Anne laughs) I'd come back and I'd say, you know what? That's okay. I'm gonna get you the right person. Who do you need? And they couldn't believe I said that to them. They'd be like, well we're, we're looking for this. We'll send you the breakdowns, and maybe you can find some -- I, I always, always would put in referrals.    Anne: And then when they need you, you're the first person at the top of their mind.    Lau: And the funniest part about for me was it became much more satisfaction than getting it for myself. So (laughs)   Anne: Isn't that so telling now that you're an agent?   Lau: It's telling.   Anne: And that's what you do. Right?    Lau: Yeah. It literally built a whole career for me because I started that habit.    Anne: That is so interesting because before my career in voiceover, I used to place students in internships and teach, of course. So everything for me is very telling. I coach now. And I also, I love to place my students on rosters. I love to recommend jobs to them. I love to do referrals, I love to cast. And so I feel like there's that match, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: When we know our students or we know our clients and we can put those two together.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And sometimes, and this is where you and I have spoken about, be interactive, don't be passive about it. Sometimes they're not coming to you. Like sometimes you're just observing that there are people around you that they need to know they need to meet. You know, something about your friends or your talent. Because remember in business, anytime you make a referral or recommendation, and it works out, it makes you look great.    Anne: Oh, absolutely.    Lau: Like you become --   Anne: Oh my gosh, yes.    Lau: — someone that they can't live without. Right?    Anne: Absolutely. So they trust you.   Lau: They trust you.    Anne: People buy from people they know, like, and trust.    Lau: Yes. So don't be afraid and think, oh, but I'm --   Anne: I'm giving a job away.   Lau: — myself.    Anne: I'm giving a job away.    Lau: No, no, no. Because you know what? If they really wanna work with you, they'll work with you.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. But that doesn't mean you're out of the picture. There are many times, especially in live circumstances, where you can do introductions, you can do referrals.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: You can do this and that and just plant the seed. And they may not go for it, but a lot of times they do.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And they go, oh my gosh, Lau, you introduced me to this person. This person's amazing. We signed a contract the other day. Do you take a percentage of that? I don't.    Anne: But Lau, you don't. But then sometimes you can.    Lau: So that's a whole job unto itself. (laughs)    Anne: Well, there you go. So look, I'm not gonna say I try to get a dollar for everything, but honestly like that when, when we're talking about the referral and the agenting and then getting other people work, when it turns out to be something profitable, it can also mean profit for you and your business. Now, I'm not saying everything should turn into that, but I mean I've had instances where I've referred clients or I've referred — and I've been offered and I'm like, no, no, no. But it has been insisted by the client that I get some sort of a fee for that. And so, and I think I am worthy. Right? That was a good referral. And both client and talent are now making money off of that or they're being fairly compensated. So I don't entirely dismiss the idea saying, oh no, no, no, no. If somebody's gonna say here, no, I am going to pay, I'm a business short. That's awesome.    Lau: Absolutely.    Anne: And how else can I help you (laughs)?    Lau: Well listen, if you get really good at that and you start doing that a lot, there's all different ways to frame that, whether you do management, whether you do fee for service, whether you do — there's all sorts a way to frame that matchmaking thing that some of us are really good at.,my point is, is like, like just give, just give. Don't worry about giving. You'll get enough back in return.    Anne: Well Karma.    Lau: Karma.    Anne: It's karma. I mean, VO BOSS was started from giving. Literally, if you remember, I tell my story over and over again. I was trying to give up my VO Peeps brand and I was gonna roll it into VO BOSS, 'cause I wanted to continue educating. I wanted this to be a resource, an educational resource for the community. And it turned out to be so much in addition to that, really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Look, I got to meet you. And I mean there's just so many wonderful things that have come from the place of giving, and I really feel that every business needs to have that aspect to — which is a very popular trend these days with businesses too.    Lau: You just brought up a mouthful. The BOSSes would love to know about, without naming any names or titles of anything, you and I met doing an online panel together.    Anne: Oh, yes, we did.    Lau: But here's the thing I want the BOSSes to know. I can't speak for you, Anne, but I didn't make a penny on that.    Anne: No, I didn't. Yeah.    Lau: And that was A-Okay by me because that was education to that company and that community. And I love that. I love that. But look what came out of this.    Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.    Lau: Look at this relationship that was built out of that.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: And this is the example of what we're saying, like karma.   Anne: A place of service, a place from heart.    Lau: Look at this. If we hadn't done that, if we said, look, I'm at a place in our careers, we do make money for everything we do, whatever, we wouldn't have met, we may not met.    Anne: That's true. Very true.    Lau: Isn't that amazing when you think about that.    Anne: There you go. And what a great story. What a great story to end on.    Lau: Very heartwarming.    Anne: Good stuff. BOSSes, get outta your own way. You can do it. Get rid of the clutter that stops you from being the very best you that we know you are. And we know you are the BOSSes. So, all right. Lau, thank you. It's been great.   Lau: Do your thing, thing.   Anne: Yes. It's been great. And so speaking of giving back, right? As individuals, it can be difficult to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities and give back in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to my favorite sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like Lau and myself like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  Are past mistakes holding you back from achieving voice over success? Join Anne & Lau on this episode of VO BOSS, where they discuss how to turn missteps into valuable learning experiences. From investing in a voiceover demo to navigating social media mishaps, discover the importance of apologies, accountability, and self-compassion in personal and professional relationships. Learn how admitting to our mistakes can elevate connections with others and avoid the pitfalls of impulsive responses on social media. Tune in to embrace growth, mindfulness, and self-compassion on the journey towards success. Bosses, don't let past mistakes hold you back.   Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. (audio blip) VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my BOSS co-host, Lau Lapiedes. Hey, Lau.    Lau: Hey everyone.    Anne: Yay!    Lau: So good to see you, An Happy Saturday.    Anne: Yes, Lau, happy S-- (audio blip) Lau, guess what happened to me this week?    Lau: What happened, Anne?   Anne: Lau, I made a mistake.    Lau: Oh no. You never make mistakes.    Anne: Well, no Lau, actually, I make mistakes all the time. (laughs)    Lau: Don't believe her --   Anne: (audio blip) Do. And you know what? Of course, nobody wants to make mistakes, but I'm glad I made this mistake because I learned a whole lot, Lau about how I can maybe not make that mistake again, or take (audio blip) when I was making the mistake and make it better and improve it. And I get students that come to me, new students that come to me quite a bit, that say, gosh, I wish I knew then what I know now. And I would never have done that.    I'd like to address that because let's take one example. One example is students that come to me and say, I never should have made that demo. And I had somebody listen to it and they said, no, no, you were not ready to make that demo. And they just come to me with all (audio blip) shame and remorse, and I get that, but I don't think it's worth anyone beating themselves up over, because honestly, we learn, you know, if we always take a look at what we do in life, and we learn and we made a mistake, (audio blip) so you know, so much better (laughs). And you can then progress and move forward.    And so I want all of those students who ever, ever came to me or ever came to Lau and said, oh God, I wish I hadn't have done that. I spent all this money and it was just a waste of my time. And (audio blip) don't beat yourself up over it. Because honestly, I think that there is such a value of information, just such a value in it. And consider it, like we were talking before, Lau, consider it an investment in the real grand scheme of things. (audio blip) been a few thousand dollars. But if I were to sit back and look at where have I spent a few thousand dollars in my lifetime, house, car, those kinds of things, I mean, honestly, consider an investment. Lau, what are your thoughts?    Lau: I couldn't agree (audio blip). I would even argue is there such a thing as a mistake? Because when you really think about that, we give a name and label to something that happens from us, to us, with us that is superbly uncomfortable and then (audio blip) toward us in our perception, it punishes us. But was that thing an actual mistake?    Anne: Sure.    Lau: I don't know how to answer that because I do feel there's lessons to be learned in the process of the, I'll give it air quotes, the mistake (audio blip) more painful than others, but really, really necessary as we journey through life. Like if we didn't do that, we wouldn't know what rewards really are.    Anne: Right.    Lau: We wouldn't know how to really build our business. We wouldn't really know that. Right? So comparatively speaking, (audio blip) and oftentimes as you know, when you make those mistakes, they're fantastic. Like you're hired for them, you're celebrated for them. It's like, whoops, I did that in my business. How could I have thought that? Oh my, wow. People love that. They want that. Right? (audio blip) I would venture to say, take a step back and really say what is a mistake and what are the mistakes in the mistake that make it a mistake? That's really important. But getting back to your investment on demo, I'm with you all the way. I do not (audio blip) corner and cry over a demo.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Process, process, process. Your first demo, your first demos --    Anne: Yes. We all started somewhere.    Lau: They're never gonna be super, super high level pro because guess what? You don't have the experience yet. You're moving towards getting that experience. (audio blip) Like if you went to college or grad school or trade school or you were an apprentice, you are working on working. So the working to get the working is never a waste of time. It's always, what are you putting into it? What are you getting out of it? How has that (audio blip) work for you? Rather than saying, oh, everything's got to be about that one demo. It just isn't. It's like a work in progress. Your whole life, your whole business is a work in progress.    Anne: Right? And it's very much like you don't know what you don't know. And so you cannot (audio blip) blame yourself for something that you didn't know. Now, maybe if you're just starting out and you're lucky and you're listening to our podcast, the BOSS podcast, you'll hear this discussion and you'll say, oh, okay, so maybe I'll wait a little bit before I make that demo. (audio blip) truly believe that sometimes when you make an expensive mistake, it's a mistake that you are not apt to repeat ever again or quickly. That is for sure.    I know sometimes, like I used to pay money to a personal trainer, right? Because it was the only way I knew (audio blip) go and work out right and do the things that I really needed to do to move forward and to progress forward and to really improve myself. So in a way I was like, yes, I'm gonna pay to kind of get a little beaten up. So, it's okay. It's okay. And I just don't (audio blip) into this to, to ever feel regret about anything because there's always those lessons as you mentioned that you learned. Maybe you learned about a process that did not work for you. Right?    And so now you'll move forward and you will (audio blip) to work with longer so that you can improve upon your performance before you go ahead and record another demo. And again, like I said, when it comes to demos on our performances, we're always improving. We're like those continuous students, like the never-ending student (audio blip) learning our craft and enhancing and improving it. And so at any point, you're never quite as good as you'll be today. So unless you're gonna make a demo every single day to keep yourself refreshed on that, I would say take it with a grain of salt. Take it as a lesson. And (audio blip) also maybe it was a demo that did not represent the genre very well, or it was maybe a, a demo that didn't have today's standards or current relevant scripts. Or it just might have been something (audioblip) done it and had somebody listen to it and they commented on it. Guess what? That's another learning experience. So.    Lau: And guess what? Doing a demo as one example is like a little work of art. It's a vocal portfolio.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: So there is artistic vision. There's (audio blip) no matter who you're working with, whoever your team is of engineers and coaches, some care, some don't care. Some are experts, some are not experts, and there's everything in between. It's like working with an expert painter or working with an expert dancer. There's all (audio blip) that go into unlocking your potential, unlocking your talent. Maybe they're great at that, maybe they're not great at it.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Maybe they're mediocre. Whatever the case may be, it really is on us you meaning you to put (audio blip) to your process. Because when you walk away, it's your process. It's not really theirs.    Anne: Right.    Lau: They're not gonna claim it anymore. It's your process to say, what did I do? Did I put it in time?    Anne: Sure.    Lau: Did I rehearse? Did I practice? Did I take it serious (audio blip)? Did I do all the due diligence boxes and check that off to bring out the best outcome? Or was I learning how to do that? I wasn't quite there yet. As a lot of people in school, in college, in grad school; sometimes they don't show up. Sometimes they fail tests. Some (audio blip) and they're learning how to discipline themselves, how to commit to a process and who they're identifying as a talent. What is a talent, what is a business person, what is a VO? I mean, they're learning all of that. So you gotta give your (audio blip) to learn.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: You can't be perfect. You can't know everything. There's gotta be space. And as you said, we're students over a lifetime.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: We're not just students for a first demo. We're students. And if those of us who own a business, and I know many listeners own a business, you are always learn (audio blip) that one. Just when you think you know as much as you need to know, then the whole script flips on you.    Anne: Yeah. And you know, I don't mean to make light of people's investments, so I don't want any of the BOSSes out there to think that I'm making light of a few (audio blip). But I will say that when you compare that to, you've beaten yourself up over and over and over again. And maybe it even deters you from getting into what it is that you've always wanted to do in your lifetime (audio blip) that's a higher price in a lot of ways. And I think that of course, before you make any investment in anything, not just voiceover, I think that you have to come at it with an educated point of view. You have to educate yourself as much as possible before you make that inve- (audio blip). Just, I think if we all kind of take that lesson, right, with anything, I think it at least helps us, so that we know that we've investigated what other common mistakes in voiceover.    Maybe people buy the wrong equipment, right? Or they (audio blip) doesn't suit their voice. Well, this is why you can return a lot of things. So if you made the smart investment, if you've educated yourself and purchased with a vendor that allows you to return within a certain amount of time, then you have that option. If it does not work (audio blip) that you can then return it to get your money back.    And there's always selling. I mean, I made many mistakes with my equipment, especially my travel equipment. I tell this story over and over again. I bought every new gadget that there was that was tiny and small so that (audio blip) I could have a convenient, tiny little mic. And whenever I would go, I could never get it to sound worth anything. I could not do that. And I spent so much money. But here's the deal. I spent the money, but then I was able to sell the equipment that if you (audio blip) I was then able to sell it or donate it. And so lesson learned.   Lau: Lesson learned. And there are even much more sophisticated mistakes that we think we're making. And that is in human communication. Now, I won't even say the business of it. I'll say the com- (audio blip), that's in the emails you're sending and receiving.    Anne: Oh yes.    Lau: That's in your invoicing, that's in your sales, you're building of rapport when you're live at a conference. All of that stuff has layers of nuance and layers of sophistication to it. (audio blip) if you are present and focused, when you've said something that just doesn't land right on someone. Doesn't mean you're offending them. It doesn't mean it's inappropriate. It just means you're not tracking, you're not on the same track. And how do I fix that? How do I --   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: — turn around and pivot from that. I don't believe it's a mistake, but in your perception, it feels uncomfortable. Like, why did I say that? Or why did I respond in that way? Or how come I didn't get back to them in seven days when they wanted me to get back to them in a day?    Anne: Right.    Lau: You know what I like to do, Anne? Very uncomfortable. And then I learned how to do it. Just fix it right away.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Just like you're gonna gimme a shot at the doctor's, you're gonna do whatever that's uncom- — just do it. Just do it. Don't hold off and think about it. Right?   Anne: And when you do it, be human about it. Something you said didn't land right. Say, for me, I'm always like, you're human. Right? I'm sorry.   Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Maybe I should have said it this way.    Lau: Yeah. And you know what? When I apologize like that, which I do a lot because I perceive that I did something wrong --   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Oftentimes the response is, please (audio blip) sorry, Lau. You were busy and rightly so, and I'm not first on the list. And sometimes it brings out the humanity in other people, when you're, you're not lowering yourself. You're actually hiring your vibration by saying, I am a (audio blip) I'm a person that is far from perfect.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: But I'm a person that wants to connect with you authentically. So if you can understand and forgive that perception of something that wasn't done that was comfortable for you, then we can continue on. And nine times outta 10, they're not(audio blip) of it. They love you for it because if you're being real with them. You're not saying, well, I didn't know, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm taking accountability. I'm not a -- no. I want them to feel like I'm like you. I'm not better than you. I'm like you in a lot of ways. And that means (audio blip) oh.   Anne: Right.    Lau: Like what the right thing is right now. Could that be a mistake? I don't know. That's all in the perception, I think, is that a mistake or am I learning from that? Are they learning from that?    Anne Right, right.    Lau: Are we deepening the relationship and communication? I'd like to think we (audio blip) really a mistake. It's more of a mishap.    Anne: Yeah. And if there is a mistake that has been made like that, and you have offered an apology or an explanation, or your attempts to fix it did not fix it, then I think sitting back and then just trying to take a deep breath, and (audio blip) maybe that wasn't meant to be in this particular timeframe, or maybe it just wasn't meant to be. I mean, I've had relationships where I don't know what happened. I've tried to go and be human and apologize and just work (audio blip) just didn't work out.    Lau: And that's okay.    Anne: And that's okay. I mean, that's going to happen. And I think what we need to really focus on is not necessarily the fact that it happened, but how can we move forward? How can we grow? How can we feel okay? I think (audio blip) oh, I either feel bad or I feel ashamed, or I feel stupid for a lot of that type of emotional baggage and beating up, that's where I want to feel better about myself. What do we do then?    Lau: Well, I'm a big fan of express. I think expression is so, so important. It sounds a little silly to say that because our whole field is about expression, but so much of the time, especially as performers, will mask up who we really (audioblip) official thing versus say, let me quickly get in touch with how I'm really feeling, and maybe have a sounding board. So if I have a few safe people that I can talk to about it, that can sound me out quickly. Like, get me in my right mind again, so to speak. (audio blip) move on from it quickly rather than holding onto it and letting it fester. And I find solving it relieves the stress. It relieves the heaviness. Like, why did that go wrong? I was terrible. It was a -- no, let's just fix it and let me talk about it and express it to the right (audio blip) who can offer me sound advice, no pun intended. Sound advice.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. And I think also, when we're talking about perceived mistakes in either face-to-face networking or relationships, but also on social media, did I post something? Oh my gosh, that was (audio blip). I can't erase it. I can't take it back. I, I can't delete it.    Lau: Yep.    Anne: How do I backpedal, or how do I recover from that? I think that the written word, we've all been using it long enough that we have to approach that type of communication with a little bit (audio blip) forethought. Right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: A little more thoughtfulness before we type, before we press that enter key, just stop, take a breath. I've had to really learn to do that in the last 10 years, I would say. Because there have been times on social media where I've been triggered (audio blip) to like type something is a fast response and, and I literally have to just get up and walk away. And I find that that is the best cure for me is to get up and walk away. Take a big deep breath. And a lot of people, as you know, have chosen, they, they get off the platform for (audio blip), and I think sometimes that's a very smart thing to do in terms of before you type something that you might not feel good about later on.    Lau: Agreed.   Anne: And there are ways though too, if you have to try to type your way back into good graces, I (audio blip) ways that you can do that. But you have to be careful. And sometimes it's best to just get up and walk away. And then give it a few hours, a few days, whatever, take a breath and then go from there. Really.    Lau: I agree. I think the time that we spend beating ourselves up (audio blip) mistakes is time not well spent. It's really, if you wanna reflect, if you wanna say, I'm gonna journal about this, I'm gonna express this, and work it through, and come to something that's meaningful, something that's useful, and something that is potentially fixable, that's (audio blip) versus sitting there and stewing in, oh, I'm upset, I'm uncomfortable. It was awful. And they don't feel -- and oftentimes, here's the funny thing, you and I spoke about this recently.    Oftentimes that thing, that circumstance is turned around quicker than you think (audio blip) together again. All of a sudden they're asking you about whatever is, if it never happened, and you think, wow, did we have that conflict? Wow. Were they upset about this? Because all of a sudden they're coming to me for something else. So sometimes our perception as creatives is (audio blip) proportion. It's very histrionic, it's dramatic. It's larger than life. And someone on the other end does not perceive it that way oftentimes.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Lau: It's much lighter and less to them. Now if they go over the top, and they're crazy in histri- (audio blip), you're noticing that you're saying, okay, there's a lesson in that this may not be the right client relationship, colleague or friend.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: Because this circumstance does not warrant that response.    Anne: And I think you bring up such a good point, especially when we are dealing with (audio blip) to us in our voiceover bubble, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: We have certain things that are very important to us, right? Things that like I need to hear back. When will I get paid? All of those. There's lots of those things. When in fact, a lot of times your client (audio blip) things on their plate. And so if you're not hearing back any feedback, if you're not getting paid within a certain amount of time, there are usually things that are going on that we are very unaware of. And I know that a lot of times, I'll have to even sit back and just (audio blip) -- there are some clients, believe it or not, that you think you didn't get paid and that was a mistake, and you wanna make sure that that is made right. But in reality, they have a 90-day net terms. And so really I think that it's one of those things that if you can (audio blip) and communicative, that will absolutely help anything that might lead to a mistake, or you just saying something that, or accusing that they haven't paid you and it's unjust. I think that that is something that we all need to just sit back, take a break (audio blip) and communicate.    Lau: Thank you for saying that one, Anne. That's brilliant. Don't assume the worst in people.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Assume the best in people.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And even if it is the worst, live in that great river that in Egypt we all love. And that's “de Nile,” a little bit in denial. Willie Wonka land and Wizard of Oz teaches us something. It's like, assume people are good. They're not evil, they're not out to get you. They're busy, they're crazy, they're forgetting, they're this or that. Now what if they are pulling something into (audio blip) what? It's okay. Forgive them, move on. It taught you something. It taught you don't work with them. That's what it taught you.    It taught you to look for signs in others that they taught you what those signs are of danger, of unsafety (audio blip) ever. God forbid, nothing serious happens to your person, if they're cheating you outta money or whatever. It's a bad thing. It's not to lessen or lighten that. And it's a terrible feeling to feel victimized in that way. But move ahead of it and say, okay, that made me feel bad (audio blip) and unethical, but what did I learn in that, that I can then install in my business, in my tactics, in my profession, and teach others so that that doesn't happen as much as possible? It happens once in a while, but we can alleviate it (audio blip) in the signs of it.    Anne: And you know what, Lau, in my over 15 years of working in voiceover, I have never not gotten paid. And so always trusting the good in people. And also, when I vet my clients, I do have a, a certain set of standards that I (audioblip) make sure that there is somebody at the other end that I'm communicating with. And it's not just a person through email that is inquired, how much will this job cost? Or can you do this job by tomorrow? Here it is. I have policies that I have in place where I demand payment upfront (audio blip) clients that are new.    And what's so interesting is when I have that in my terms of services, that I demand full payment upfront, I get it. (laughs)I've gotten paid within the first five minutes of securing a job before I've even recorded it. (audio blip) I've been very fortunate, I would say, but I also have been what I consider to be, well, I've taught myself to be savvy in terms of who my clients are, in making sure that I'm gonna be working with someone that is going to reciprocate. If I provide (audio blip) they will reciprocate and give me payment. And so thankfully and gratefully, I can say that I've not encountered any mistakes because I think I've always been open with my communication, and I think that's an important thing. And had I not been open (audio blip) communication, I would've found out right away things might be different.    Lau: And that's experience. That's time. It's being seasoned, it's experience. And it takes most people, including myself, time to work through that, learn that, (audio blip), see what the best practices are for you. See if you can be a psychologist and really listen to people, watch people, watch for cues. Focus in on it. Don't just get lost in your own head or your own services, your (audio blip). Listen, because oftentimes you can pick up these cues before something bad actually happens.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: And oftentimes the mistake is simply like, I'm just not paying attention.    Anne: Paying attention.    Lau: Yeah. Let me be honest. I could have caught that if I was really in (audio blip) with what they were saying and doing. But what I was doing was, and women are notorious for this, I was lying to myself. I was saying, oh, it'll be okay. Oh, that didn't happen. Oh, they mean this. Oh -- I was interpreting it in a whole way that it (audio blip) way, and then when the boom hit, and I said, wow, that really happened, I look back and I say, well, could I have caught that earlier? Most of the time it's yes. Most of the time it's me sugarcoating the situation. So there's that. There's that in that mis- (audioblip) to happen because I need to learn that lesson. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Be good to them, but also don't sugarcoat things too much and see them for what they are when they reveal themselves to you.    Anne: Exactly. Exactly.    Lau: Right? Oh, fantastic. We're turning into psychologists. (laughs)   Anne: Mistakes are good. Mistakes can be very good. Mistakes are learning experiences. And I think really, BOSSes out there, I think to become even better BOSSes, right, we need to make mistakes. We need to learn and we need to grow and move forward. (audio blip) else do we want for our businesses? Right?   Lau: There it is.    Anne: There it is.   Lau: You wanna learn and grow and thrive. And we have to go through that process in order to do it.   Anne: Good talk, Lau.   Lau: The best, as always.    Anne: Ah, you know, BOSS (audio blip) mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. What is Anne even talking about? Oh, four times a year. By the way. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. All right. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You (audio blip) can connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and go ahead and make those mistakes, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau: See you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne is joined by special guest, Ian Russell, a multi-award-winning voice actor. They discuss his career in the voice over industry, including his journey to success. They talk about the importance of social media and authenticity in character creation. He advises aspiring voiceover actors to be careful not to violate non-disclosure agreements and to use social media to support their profiles. Anne and Ian also discuss the importance of respecting specified ethnicities and the limitations of casting notices. They highlight that authenticity and believability are essential in video game casting, and that having an acting background is a serious advantage. Tune in to hear the full conversation.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring very special guest Ian Russell to the podcast. Hey Ian. Yay.   Ian: Hey, Anne.   Anne: welcome. For those of you BOSSes out there, we'll tell you a little bit about Ian, and then he's gonna continue on telling us about his journey, he is a, a multi-award winning, seasoned voice actor working in commercial, corporate, video games, audiobooks. His voice can be heard for companies including Coca-Cola, MasterCard, Nestle, Heineken, Club Med, Phillips, and a bunch more. He was the recipient of the One Voice Male Voice of the Year 2020 award. And also in that year, he was also best character performance. Is that correct?   Ian: Animation, yeah.   Anne: And then continuing in 2021, he won Gaming Best Performance for One Voice Awards. And in 2022, the SOVAS Outstanding International Audio Description, Museums and Cultural Sites. Wow. That is fantastic. Ian, so honored to have you here on the show to talk about your journey and your wisdom. So , let's start.   Ian: Well, good luck with that.   Anne: Well, let's start telling people about your journey. How did you get into voiceover, a little bit about yourself and how you got into voiceover.   Ian: It's a long and winding road, which is a Beatles reference, but the first ever voiceover I ever, ever did was for a radio station in Liverpool. And it was a friend of mine worked at the radio station, and they had a pre-recorded interview for Paul McCartney when he bought and set up the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts in Liverpool. It was his old school. And rather than having a boring interview where it was just Paul McCartney and some radio guy , he asked me. I was, we were in a local acting thing together, and he asked me to be the voice of Paul McCartney's teacher.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: When Paul McCartney was a kid. So we linked the questions, you know, and it  was like, oh yes, that McCartney he was always playing around with a guitar. He'll never amount anything. So it was that kind of -- we made it funny. I didn't even know what voiceover was, but I did it anyway. And it was fun. I didn't get paid or anything. I was doing it for a mate, but I still have the magnetic cassette tape, shows how long ago it was.   Anne: Yep. There you go. .   Ian: And then 30 years go by, and I get married, and my wife's stumbling around for what she can buy me. And we, because you know --   Anne: What happened 30 years though? That was a long time.   Ian: Oh, sorry. I, I went off and got a real job. I was, I was working in sales and sales management in the northwest of England and in Belgium and Holland and in and around Oxford.   Anne: So International for sure. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. That's a whole other story, which we could get into another time. But that would use up our 30 minutes, would be nothing left . So anyway, so my wife's like, oh, well what do I buy him for Christmas this year? And I had done a bit of sort of community theater stuff as a young man, just explained with the Paul McCartney thing. And so she found a one day introduction to voiceover.   Anne: Uh-huh.   Ian: In London. It's a place called the Show Reel. And she bought me that for Christmas 2012. It's 10 years almost to the day.   Anne: Wow. Yeah.   Ian: And then two years later, we've had the credit crunch and the bank -- I was working for a bank at the time and they were trying to offload people, and I had to reapply for my own job multiple times. And in the end I'm like, I volunteer as tribute . Let me go, you know, I'm done here. I'm older than all these young guys. I don't want to be rushing around half of the UK seeing multimillionaires coming home at night, barely seeing my kids, writing reports 'til midnight, and then doing the same rinse and repeat tomorrow. I'll have a heart attack and die. Let me go. And two years later, they eventually let me go. And so my wife's American and we said, well, what are we gonna do now? ? Well, let's sell everything and move to America. Be near my dad, says my wife. So that's what we did.   Anne: I love that. Let's do it.   Ian: And I said, well, what am I, what am I gonna do?   Anne: Let's sell everything and move.   Ian: I'll give that voiceover thing a go. And I went to the guy in London and I said, does anybody get hired for this? And he went, yeah. And I said, would anybody hire me? And he went, I don't see why not. And that was the ringing endorsement that I had to come off and start. So 2014 I started properly, I would say.   Anne: Wow. Wow. And so when you started, what was it that -- I assume you, you got coaching, you got a demo, and then you started working, and so you started working and were successful in which genres?   Ian: I think I'm a product of the internet age. You know, I live in the metaphorical middle of nowhere. And everything I do is via the internet, pretty much. So I started probably the way a lot of people start. I didn't know anybody and I didn't know anything. I had some experience, life experience that helps for sure, the sales and having done a bit of community theater and all that. But I knew no one and I knew nothing. So I started searching on the internet, and I paid money down to online casting and, and started throwing mud at the wall. And I think in that market you do a lot of explainers. You do a lot of corporate. You do a lot of e-learning, e-sort of things that, that sort of thing.   Anne: And of course in the States now, you know, that accent of yours doesn't hurt you. I had a very good friend when I started and she was hired all the time for e-learning. Because I think for us listening, and you gotta have some sort of interesting -- like an American accent is, we hear it all the time. But a British accent might be something that, oh, that makes it more interesting. And so she was high in demand for e-learning and, and those explainers and corporate things. And she was always so wonderfully like natural and conversational about it. And it was just a pleasure to listen to her all the time. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanna aspire to be that relaxed and that friendly in my voiceovers. And so I can totally see where that just, it lends it. It's also a very large market. And so everybody kind of gets there, and it's a good, good place to start off. And I know a lot of students that I work with, they start off in corporate or e-learning.   Ian: Yeah. There's masses of it. And it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Exactly.   Ian: You might not get the best rate, but it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Now, you won these awards, but these awards were not for corporate or e-learning. It was for gaming and character performance. And so let's talk about, 'cause I know when people start out, they're very concerned about you know, what's my niche? Like, where do I start and how do I know what I'm good at? You evolved into becoming an award-winning voice talent in gaming and characters.   Ian: Yeah, I know.   Anne: So let's talk about that.   Ian: How does that happen?   Anne: Yeah. How does that happen?   Ian: I'm gonna say I got lucky, but we all know that that's hard work meets preparation and all of that. But in 2015, so a year after I'd started, I booked a role in a significant video game called Payday 2. And the role is utterly -- it's this South African mercenary. He speaks like that, he's Locke, his name is Locke. And I have been performing Locke for Starbury Studios for seven years now.   Anne: Oh wow.   Ian: And it was the performance of Locke that won me the video game award last year. And we're still making content. And at the end of this year, we have Payday 3 coming up.   Anne: Ooh. Get ready, BOSSes.   Ian: And so there's a lot of chatter around who's gonna be in Payday 3. You know what it's like with a lot of --   Anne: NDAs.   Ian: -- casting for voiceover. It's --   Anne: You can't tell --   Ian: -- NDAs -- Well, well, if I knew something, I'd be able to tell you, but voice over casting often happens right at the end. So nothing, I can't say anything. I don't know anything. So.   Anne: So seven years.   Ian: I'm like a mushroom.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: Yeah. So, so that was my first video game thing. And I think a lot of younger folk, they're growing up now with video games and animation and it's a very aspirational genre for people to get into. And I think I got one, and I'll keep the story very short, but Locke, the character, has his own Twitter account, which now has almost 12,000 followers.   Anne: Do you have input into that account?   Ian: It's mine.   Anne: Okay. Okay.   Ian: It's all mine.   Anne: Now, was that something that maybe was requested of you through an agent or the company or --   Ian: No.   Anne: -- you just created it? That's a very interesting marketing um   Ian: Well, it was suggested to me because I went on a charity stream as Locke for Payday, and the guys that were running it said, you might want to set up a separate account because you don't want your personal account flooded with teenage boys --   Anne: Yeah, that makes sense.   Ian: -- swearing at you. Frankly.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Ian: Asking you about Locke, you know, what's your favorite color, that kind of thing. So I set up a separate Twitter account for him then; that was 2017-ish. And that, that's kind of just grown from there. And I don't just use it for Locke. I use it for Locke. But I, all my video game stuff I promote on there because they're all video game players. So they're interested.   Anne: I love that I'm talking to you about this right now because I wanna know, is the content monitored at all by the game company or the people that hire you at all? Or if you were to say something that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for your character, I would imagine that that's kind of a line that you walk.   Ian: For sure, it is. I'm pretty sure there have been several occasions where I've written something, and I've had the wherewithal to go, no, don't do that. Don't say that. That would be silly . The only thing that Starbury said is, because they own the character, they own the IP of the character, that I can't monetize it for myself. I have run charity fundraisers and things like that, but if I'm gonna do anything out of the ordinary, I go through them and say, hey, I'm thinking about about this; what do you think? I don't think they've ever said, no.   Anne: That's something that's so interesting for those BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into video games or character animation. I mean, there really becomes -- it can have a celebrity attached to it, and that becomes more than just voicing. Right? That is voicing. And then also it becomes a marketing effort. It becomes something that is outside of your voiceover persona that is of concern, I would think, for you to make sure that you're not gonna say the wrong thing or make sure you're not gonna do something that spoils any new things coming out or disturbs any NDAs.   Ian: Yeah. I just basically assume that everything I've ever done is under NDA until it's public.   Anne: That's very wise, very wise.   Ian: I really don't, you know. It's just, it's easier to do that than to go, oh, I've been cast, I can't...   Anne: I think no matter what we do, we should consider that, even doing a lot of corporate work and e-learning, it really all should be considered.   Ian: It is one of the challenges with video games, because whilst we get cast often towards the end of the process, it can be months before the game is actually shipped. And I have got the list, but I've got games coming out this year with my voice in them, and I am burning, burning up with desire to tell people because I am so excited about it. And I just can't. And it's just really, really one of the hard things, you know, that you have to bury that.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So you got hired for this one game, it became something --   Ian: Yes. So the thing about the Twitter was, so a little while after that I had auditioned for a role in a Warhammer game called Inquisitor Martyr for one of the -- there were only gonna be three player characters. It was one of the player characters. And I got shortlisted, and they asked me for a second audition and I did that. And then they came back and they said, okay, it's down to two people, so can you do a third audition? I'm like, I almost didn't want to know. You know, me or the other guy. And if I don't get it, I know the other guy got it. And I'm like, I was so close. But , what I did say was, look, you must make the right casting choice for your game. But please know that I have a Twitter account with 10,000 followers who are all game players. And I promote any game I'm in on that Twitter account. So I just want you to know that.   Anne: I like that.   Ian: Don't let that influence your casting decision in any way at all, but know that I've got it.   Anne: Hey, that 27 years in sales, I think it served you well. I think it served you well. That's fantastic. I love that.   Ian: So I booked that. I don't know that, that's why I would like to think it was just because of my awesome acting talent. But it taught me a lesson that you can use these things to help support your profile, particularly in a high profile thing like animation or like games. You see like the anime guys that are doing that; they're always at cons promoting themselves. And you know that the anime companies are loving that. Because that sells more anime. And the video games is the same. So.   Anne: Now would you say that your award also was something you were able to use as a marketing for more characters and more work?   Ian: I'm gonna put it the other way around. I can't draw a direct line to -- I won this award in August last year in video games, and then suddenly I get cast in a lot of games. What I think happens, this is what I think happens, a lot of casters in video games are younger people. I mean, there are older ones as well, but they're very tech savvy. And I think that you --they get their auditions in, and if you get shortlisted, and you may not know you've been shortlisted, but they're gonna create a shortlist, and I think they pop over onto Instagram or onto Twitter --   Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.   Ian: Right?   Anne: And look at your profiles and --   Ian: They wanna, who's, who is this guy? Is he an umpti or whatever. And they see the awards and they see the interaction with a game community from my case. And they go, oh, he knows what he's doing. He's obviously done it before. You know, and you can say that til you're blue in the face in a pitch proposal, but nobody reads them, I don't think. But when they see it on Instagram or they see it on Twitter, it makes a difference.   Anne: Yeah. It's validation for them.   Ian: Yeah. It's that whole trust.   Anne: Right? That maybe they're picking somebody that has that little bit of trust. Yep. That you've got these experience.   Ian: Well, and you think how many -- as, as the game studios get bigger, how many multimillions of pounds they've got invested in a game. And it has to ship successfully, otherwise the company goes pop.   Anne: Absolutely.   Ian: That narrative story to a two or three talent generally telling the story is a big decision for them. So I do think they check. I have no evidence directly for it, but I absolutely think they check.   Anne: Especially I think as a lead character. Right? I mean, there's more responsibility than just the voicing of it, because like I said, there's a persona attached to it, that can be attached to it, and the potential for that character to be able to sell more game, new releases of games.   Ian: I kind of figure if I can help sell 10 or 20 or 30 copies of the game, I'm getting out someway towards paying my own fee.   Anne: Now -- right? Now, lemme ask you though, in terms of, let's say compensation for games, right? What are your thoughts about that? I mean, do voices for big games get paid better? There's really no royalties, residuals, like that kinda sucks.   Ian: No. It does. Yeah. If I was being paid union royalties for Payday 2, I'd be a wealthier man.   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: It's just the, that's the way it is, Anne. I don't have any control over it. So all I can do is negotiate the best fee I think I can for each individual one. But that's the other thing you've got, if you like AAA games at the top of the feeding frenzy, and they can afford to pay a great deal more. And at the bottom, you've got one guy with a 40-watt light bulb who's making a game, and he wants to get a voice in it, and he just doesn't have the budget. So you have to ask yourself then, is this a game that will further my profile? Do I want my -- you almost, you talk about the celebrity element of it. Do I want my name attached to this game?   Anne: Absolutely. Yeah.   Ian: And there are games I want attached. There are a lot of games out there that the content is marginal, should we say? Not safe for work is the phrase. . And there is no value to me as a talent in attaching my name to a game like that, because it would impact -- if I wanna be in a big AAA adventure game, I think it taints a little bit, my profile. So I, there are games that I will avoid and I will ask. There's one game I'm in and they have a safe for work version and they have a non-safe work version. And I said, uh, nothing to -- if you want this character in both versions, count me out. But they said, no, we can just write you into this one. So, they did that.   Anne: That's great. Look at that. That, you know, and that's interesting that you bring up these things that I never would've thought of, because obviously I'm not doing video games, but I love that you brought that up.   Ian: But you could, Anne.   Anne: Well, I could if I wanted to. I mean, you did it. So what made you, I'm gonna say, what made you audition for that first game? Did somebody suggest it to you? Did they say, oh, we're looking --   Ian: The Payday one? No, it was an open audition. It said South African mercenary.   Anne: And you said, oh, I can do that. Right?   Ian: Yeah, absolutely. I was so naive that I thought I could do everything.   Anne: So you said, I could do that.   Ian: Yeah, I can do that.   Anne: Okay. So I have to tell you my little story.   Ian: They cast me so great.   Anne: That's fantastic. I have to tell you my story. My story was a long time ago, like when I first started, I was on one of the pay-to-plays and they had a audition out, and they said it was for a phone system and it was for a British accent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I was naive , and I got it. And literally I worked for that company for 10 years. And it wasn't until like I actually spoke to somebody on the phone, because we had communicated, got jobs from them all the time onto this. And then it became not a cool thing to do because what accent am I doing? And it started to become that sort of a thing. Well, you're not a native. They didn't know. They said, oh my God, we thought you were native --   Ian: Oh, really?   Anne: -- British. And, and it was because I just, I didn't know any better, and I made the mistake. I didn't read that where it said they wanted native. And I said, oh, I can do that. I'll give it a shot. I'll throw my audition in. And I got it. And they employed me for a good 10 years before it was like, oh, now Anne, we just need your English. You know? Not, not your British. So, but it's so interesting that you kind of on a whim just did it. And I think that really speaks to having the confidence to kind of just put yourself out there, and even for things that you don't think you're good at, because they think when people get into this industry in the beginning, they're so concerned about, oh my God, I think I should do this, and I'm no good at character, or I'm no good at -- and I think that really, you don't really know until you try.   Ian: Well, let me share another quick story for you.   Anne: Sure.   Ian: So I auditioned for another game called Road Redemption, which is a motorcycle game. And you drive along the road and you have an iron stick and you're trying to hit other people off their motorbikes. And I auditioned with a sort of a Ray Wins, yeah. Come over, we all gonna hit you with a steel bat, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought, yeah, that'll work. And they decided that they liked my take on the character. So we got together on Skype . Who remembers Skype? And we are chatting, there's three of them, and there's me here. And they're like, what's your Australian accent like? Alright, where's that, right out of left field.   Anne: Where'd that come from?   Ian: Where'd that come from? And he said, because it's this sort of Mad Max kind of feel to the game. And they said, you know, what's your, and I said, very bad. I said, any Australian will immediately notice. You know, I can put another prawn on a barbie kind of thing. But everybody will, they will know, he's not from Australia anyway. So then we're on Skype and you hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And they've sent me a line on the, in the chat. Read that in your Australian accent, whatever it was. Hey, I'm gonna hit you in me iron bar, mate, you know, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Read that one in your Australian -- yeah, this shrimp's gonna really get you, you know, anyway. And at the end of it, they said, yeah, okay, we're gonna use you for the game. And I said, okay, do you want the Ray Winston thing or do you want this? Oh, we want the Australian thing. Okay. Well, I, like I said, they went, yeah, but Australia's such a small market for us. We're not worried about that.   Anne: We're not worried that people in Australia are gonna complain . Well, it's true.   Ian: Right. And Locke's the same thing with his South African. And where it led me to in my head was video games, even if they're sort of set in an earth-like environment, are fiction. And I think a lot of game makers now particularly, but certainly back then as well, the acting performance of the character outweighs --   Anne: Is more important.   Ian: -- the absolute accuracy of a given accent.   Anne: Very interesting. Especially now because now it's a casting thing. Are they casting a native UK or a native Australian? And I think that we are all in a spot, like are we going to audition for that? Ian: Well, with that rider of there are accent issues and there are ethnicity issues.   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Ian: You know, I absolutely would not put myself forward for a British SWANA or MENA or -- I can't say African American because that's American.   Anne: Yeah, no, I get, I get that.   Ian: British Black, I think.   Anne: I think if they're, if they're specifying -- yes. If they're specifying ethnicity, then I think, yeah, absolutely. It's something that we respect.   Ian: PGM, person of global majority.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Ian: That's, that, that works well for me. So there are things that I just will walk past now that maybe 10 years ago would've been acceptable.   Anne: Sure. Yeah. Things have definitely changed over the past just a few years.   Ian: This could be quite controversial, but I've seen casters ask for a minority ethnicity, and then in the sides it makes reference to, I don't know, America or Great Britain or whatever. And you're like, the ethnicity of of this character does not match the character in the script that you are portraying. And I fear a little bit, what's been the motivation for that?   Anne: You know what, interestingly enough, I know that you say that that's a very inter -- I had that with an e-learning, believe it or not, they had the characters, it was a character based e-learning, and they were all different ethnicities. And mine was a mixed ethnicity, but then they said, don't perform it in any kind of accent. And so I thought, well what is that there for then? You know what I mean? And that was a few years back now. I would kind of hope that if they're specifying ethnicity, that they try really hard to get that so that there can be authentic and genuine. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. And at the top end, some casting directors at the top of the market will challenge that sort of thing. They'll go back to the studio, they're in a strong enough position to go back to the studio and go, really? Does that work? Are you sure? And they will challenge that if you like the mass market, often the person hiring the voice and directing the voice is a part of the studio itself. So. Johnny at the back, go and get a voice actor, will you, for this character. I think a lot of that is kind of left to the voice actor to work out for themselves. If you have an any kind of an acting background, and you are auditioning for particularly indie video games, you are already streets ahead because the guys in the studios have never hired anyone before. They don't know who to hire really. It's kind of like, we'll know it when we hear it kind of thing. So if you can make a performance, if you can create a character that's believable within the universe of the game, you are already streets ahead.   Anne: It's very interesting that you bring up the casting directors for video games. And you know, it's not necessarily, I think, the talent agents of today that you think of for commercial and broadcast. For video games, you do have to make it authentic and believable. And these people may only be casting for their game, and maybe they've never cast for another game, or they don't have a lot of experience . But that's a great point. And so I think that even more so now, the marketing that you employed, having followers on Twitter, maybe putting your awards on your website so that it's out there and it's known, that definitely has an impact. Because your casting directors may or may not be as experienced as somebody who's casting like 10 commercials a day. Right? That's all they do. That they listen for voices and they cast, whereas games, they're so into their game that they know their characters, and they're listening for just that character to come alive, what they believe the character is like.   Ian: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I had a beautiful testimonial from an indie guy, he put on Twitter, it was on Twitter, his casting notice. And he said, the character is 60 and British from the southwest of England, and he's got early signs of dementia. And he said, but there aren't many older British actors. You know, I've always found it a struggle to cast older actors. So when I wrote to him, I said, , I am 60.   Anne: I'm old. .   Ian: So anyway, so I got cast of that surprising, surprise me though. He actually cast me as a second character that he was struggling. I said to him, you said you were struggling to cast this. Have you've got anything else that you're struggling to cast? So he sent me, said, yes, I'm struggling to cast this. And he sent it to me, and I thought, I can have a go at that. So I sent it back and I said, do you mean something like this? So I didn't put it as though I was auditioning. I just said, do you mean something like this? And he went, oh great. Was that you? And I went, yes. He went, okay, yeah, you are hired.   Anne: I love it. I love it.   Ian: I booked two characters. But he said, you might just, it's a real kind of bigging myself up, but you might be, he said, the best actor I've ever auditioned.   Anne: Awesome.   Ian: And I'm like, aww.   Anne: What a wonderful, what a wonderful compliment.   Ian: Oh. That is on my Instagram. If you check -- care to go.   Anne: Yeah. There you go. . So I love that.   Ian: Oh, and I know, what did I wanted to say about, you talked about casting directors. So Bianca Shuttling, who's one of the big casting directors in LA, she goes looking on Instagram. She's very open about that. If she's not got someone in her little pool of people where she goes, she gets -- she doesn't go to agents, she goes to Instagram.   Anne: Wow, there you go.   Ian: That's where she goes.   Anne: There you go. I love that.   Ian: There, you learnt it -- you heard it third or fourth here. .   Anne: So let me say, because I really think that there's that business savvy that you have, which, BOSSes out there, do not discount the value of being business savvy and marketing savvy. Because I think that that's gonna get you opportunities that otherwise you would not already have. But I do wanna address the acting part of it because you don't just get these roles over and over again if you're not a great actor. So what do you attribute your acting prowess? Have you, just because you've been doing it for years, have you been working with coaches or what do you attribute it to?   Ian: I owe it all to my mum.   Anne: Ah, okay. Well, there you go. , I'd like to thank my mom and my .   Ian: Well, yeah. But in this case, my mom was a very prolific community actress herself.   Anne: Got it.   Ian: So my first living memory is a smell, and it's not the smell of the grease pain. It's that kind of musty damp wood smell that you get backstage in an old theater. And I have the image that follows it, but -- and I must have been maybe around two or three years old. There's no words involved in this memory. So I basically grew up --   Anne: In the theater.   Ian: -- in the backstage. Yeah. One of those things. So it was happening all around me all the time. And I did try and become a proper professional actor as a young man, but I couldn't figure out how to earn money doing it . So.   Anne: Same thing when you start off doing voice acting, right? It's kind of hard sometimes. How do I even get money? How do I even get started? Yeah.   Ian: Yeah, yeah. It took me another 27 years of sales and management --   Anne: Well, there's your overnight success. Right? And I love telling that to people. They're like, you're so successful. Like, how did you do it? And people think it's overnight, but I think obviously you've evolved so nicely into your success, and it well, well deserved.   Ian: And now it pays two -- pays me and I hired -- my wife works for me now.   Anne: There you go.   Ian: So that Christmas present 10 years ago has employed both of us now.   Anne: Yeah. So that 10 year overnight success in voiceover, I mean actually, actually it was a little less than that.   Ian: Yeah, that's interesting. Because I got my first nomination, and I was --   Anne: In 2020, right?   Ian: -- 2019, I got nominated. I didn't win anything that year, but I thought I was ahead of the curve at that point. You know, and then it all went a bit quieter after that. But the last two years, so years nine and ten, or if you count it from 2014, years seven and eight, really have my career, iIt just looks entirely different now. And it is for the people out there, the BOSSes out there, you know, if you are three, four, and five years in and you're making your way, keep going. Because it is my view that in another two or three years, if you are booking regularly, suddenly something will click, something will change, and bam, away you go.   Anne: I was just gonna ask you what's your best advice? But I'll tell you what, that was a golden nugget of wisdom right there . I think so many people, they give up so quickly, and they get their demos, and they're like, well, why am I not working? And they get so frustrated and down and yeah.   Ian: Took me three months to get my first booking. I worked for three months for nothing.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ian, it has been such a wonderful pleasure having you in here.   Ian: Are we done?   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: Already?   Anne: Well, I, I can probably talk to you for another three hours, for sure. But I appreciate you coming and sharing your journey. I think ,BOSSes out there, you can learn a lot from this wonderful gentleman. And thank you so much for being here with us today.   Ian: You're very welcome, Anne. Anytime.   Anne: I'm gonna give a great big shout out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And then also I'd like to talk to you about 100 Voices Who Care. It's your chance to make a difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. All right, you guys, have an amazing week. Ian, thanks again, and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.   Ian: Bye-Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in!    Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya?    Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne?    Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios.    Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit.   Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right?   Gillian: Yeah, definitely.    Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs).   Gillian: I'm just a voice actor.    Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)?    Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room --   Anne: I know where you're going with this.    Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out --   Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes.   Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on.    Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer.    Gillian: I love to know.    Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no.    Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important.   Anne: I agree.    Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by --   Anne: Oh, fantastic.    Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice.    Anne: Absolutely.    Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet --   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body.    Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown.    I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole ‘nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it.  And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different.    So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible.    Gillian: Uncomfortable.    Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So (laughs) in terms of --   Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room.    Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to.    Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that --   Anne: On top of it.    Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what --   Anne: Oh, I was gonna say --   Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing.   Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in.    Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere.    Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. ‘Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole ‘nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't.    And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels.    And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording --   Gillian: Once we're in the studio that you've built and whatever says…   Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection.    Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody.   Anne: So true.    Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt.   Anne: It's an investment.   Gillian: It hurt a little bit.   Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested --   Gillian: Emotional pain.    Anne: — but it's an investment.    Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work?   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that's a worthy investment.    Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection.    And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more.   Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs)   Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here.    You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So.   Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like --   Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs)    Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree.    Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember?    Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy --   Anne: A microphone.   Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean --   Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that.   Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course.    Anne: I love it. I love it.    Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move.   Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am.   Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will.    Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun.    Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be?   And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products?   Gillian: I do. Yeah.    Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again…   Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough --   Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck.    Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but --   Anne: But it's an investment.    Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things.    Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right?    Gillian: No.    Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up.    Gillian: They're completely different.   Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that…   Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all.    Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there.    Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out.    But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important.    Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want.    And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make.    And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry.    Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way.    But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do.   Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional?    And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed.    Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business.    Anne: There you go.    Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were --   Anne: It made a difference, right?    Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world.    Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you?    Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it.    Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us.    Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely --   Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes.    Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not.    Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello.    For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really.    Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more --   Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next --   Gillian: Sorry, guys.   Anne: That's for our next episode.   Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's --   Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true.    Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing --   Anne: Anything you're doing.    Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice --   Anne: Who you are and your brand.    Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of.   Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about.   Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the --   Anne: It's not the microphone --   Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say.    Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones?   Gillian: I know.    Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.    Gillian: Bye.    Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Lau answer a question many have about the voice over industry: "how long will it take?" The truth is, becoming a successful voiceover artist takes time, discipline, and dedication. There is no set timeline for success, and it is important to have realistic expectations. Investing in coaching and training is essential, but it is equally important to be selective about where and how to invest. Building a recognizable brand identity and having a viable business is important. Respecting the voiceover industry as a business is crucial. Hard work, commitment, and effort increase the chances of success, but there are no shortcuts. Success is not only measured financially but also in time and commitment to your voice over business.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here today with the lovely and most wonderful BOSS, co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey BOSS.    Lau: Hey BOSS. How are you?    Anne: I'm doing great. How about yourself?    Lau: I'm doing good. Feeling BOSSy today.    Anne: Today I think we should answer a very common question that is asked, I think, both of myself and you, I can imagine. And that is for people just starting out in this industry, how long will it take for me to become a voiceover artist? Or how long will I have to spend coaching or training so that I can do voiceover?    Lau: Hmm. Gotta get my calculator out for that one. So I can just do different variables, different scenarios, right?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Variations on the theme. That's a biggie.    Anne: Is it gonna take me, okay, in three months I wanna be able to make $10,000 a month, and I want to be able to secure 20 new clients, right? So it's very hard for people when they're first starting out. Again, we had another podcast all about this, like, you don't know what you don't know yet. So how long will it take? Well, let's see. Where's my crystal ball?    Lau: (laughs) Where do you start? Where do you start?   Anne: Where's my crystal ball? How do even I start?    Lau: Where do you start?    Anne: Boy, it depends on so many things, Lau.    Lau: Mm. There's tons of variables involved with that. That's not even possible to answer that question. One could Google and look up, okay, voiceover talent, 2023, North America, what's the average? But it's really not going to tell you what is going on in individual scenarios and situations that can cause a tremendous amount of loss and a tremendous amount of gain.    Anne: Yeah. Well, maybe let's start with how long will it take if somebody's just starting out in the industry, right?    Lau: Wait, can I do my theater moment? Can I do my like, wait, give me six months. I gotta do jazz hands. I will give you a VO career.    Anne: Woohoo!   Lau: Did you like that? Did that sound credible to anyone?    Anne: Wait, I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I was running fast and far away from that.   Lau: (laughs)    Anne: From that claim.    Lau: You know, I had a colleague one time, he told the greatest stories, and he said, listen, would you go to a dentist who did a weekend workshop? Or who even did a one-year certificate program to become a dentist? Would you do that? And everyone laughs at that.    Anne: Would you get your tooth drilled from that dentist? Mm.    Lau: Probably not. Probably not.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Because not just about the physical pain of it, but the idea that, how could they become a dentist in six months or one year? There's a lot to learn. There's a lot to delve into, right?    Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Absolutely. Such a great point. And I think that's like one of the first things that I'm always saying. My gosh, we go to school for years to learn a craft. Like doctors go for eight years minimum, I think, right? Dentists as well. And maybe not even doctors and dentists. I mean, just back in the day, okay, now I'm starting to sound my age, but I had a four-year program in college that I went to for a bachelor's or a two-year program for an associate, whatever it is, right? We go to elementary school for so many years to learn all of these things.    So why is voiceover any different? Like, I'm not saying we need to spend 12 years, but in reality, we probably are continually honing our craft and spending our entire lives being a student. But why would you think it would only take two months or three months even, or even a couple of sessions before you're ready to make that demo? You have to just sit back and does that make logical sense?    Lau: I think it could only make logical sense if I am really invested in the media blitz of our society and having very quick images and sounds about being in entertainment, being in the entertainment industry, which looks to us on the outside as very fast and very polished and very rich and very quick. When we know on the inside, on the other side of it, it takes years and years oftentimes to get to that place of what you're seeing in that media image.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So I mean, that's kind of like the collateral damage of being in this whole entertainment industry under that umbrella is that you have whole generations now that think and feel like, if I jump on TikTok or if I jump on this social media channel, I'm instantly this, I'm instantly that. It's like stir and mix, you know? Pull it off the shelf, stir and mix, and you're instantly a star.    Anne: Yeah, yeah.    Lau: We have to combat that because we know for longevity in careers, it's just never that. It's always a, an investment, a creating, a recreating, a re-envisioning throughout your life. This is a craft.    Anne: Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight, for sure. Does not happen. If it looks easy, well, yeah, it probably took us, what if that overnight success was 40 years in the making?    Lau: Yes. We were a 40-year overnight success. You like it? (laughs)    Anne: And everybody is different. Now, of course, you might have a different story. Maybe you've been an actor all your life, and you've turned to voiceover, and you got hired because maybe you're a little bit of a celebrity, right? And people know you and they know your brand, and so you were able to lock in a big video game right away, or a national campaign. And so that is where I think people, they look at it and go, oh my gosh, I should be be able to do this. You know, if I set my goals, I should be able to do this in three months or six months. But honestly, BOSSes out there, I mean, to really be a BOSS, I think that there has to be some longevity. There has to be some due diligence. There has to be some hard work, some sweat, blood, tears, mistakes. We just had a whole podcast on mistakes -- that really make that career a possibility. And it does not typically happen in two to three months.    So with that being said, the other question is, how much is this going to cost? Well, it's going to cost, right, whatever you're going to invest in your coaching and training. And I don't mean to be impatient, but it's so many times I get people who come to me thinking that it'll cost them much less to get that demo so that they can get working and be successful as a voiceover actor. And somehow they're thinking, well, just a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand, and I'll be good to go, and I'll be able to make some money. Lau?   Lau: I almost don't know what to say to that though. We always have to have something to say to that.   Anne: Right? We do. We do.    Lau: One of the first things I always say is, what you put into it, what you invest is exactly what you're going to get out of it. So be careful how you invest. And how much you invest and what you invest. You have to really sit down with a master plan and think, okay, maybe I don't know much. I'm in my first year. Now I'm in my third year. I know a lot more. And you have to invest and reinvest in, what are my goals per quarter? What do I want to achieve? What is achievable? What is realistic? I always joke with my clients and say, I may want to be a 22-year-old Scandinavian supermodel, but that ain't happening.    Anne: (laughs)   Lau: Can I just say? And I'm glad it's not happening, ‘cause that leaves me room to be what I can be, what I want to be, and what is possible for me.    Anne: Love it. Sure.   Lau: So I don't look at that as a limitation. I look at that as opening the door to spending the energy and time and everything that I should be investing in.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Just because I have money and I can invest doesn't mean I should invest in that. I have to be very specific. I have to be very goal-oriented, and I have to be reasonable. I have to be realistic and pragmatic in my goal. There's a difference between a dream and a goal, right? Who is the famous person who said this? I have to look this up. A goal is just a dream with a deadline. But it's more than that. It's something that is realistic for my talent, for my skillset, for my time, for my money. It's like a whole portfolio. You sat down with a financial advisor, they're not just gonna say, hey, how much money do you have? No. They're gonna look at you and build a portfolio on who you are, what your background is, what you're capable of, what you want, and really come up with scenarios and variables that are reasonable in terms of it not being a gamble, but being an investment, a calculated risk.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like we say this so much, but I feel like we, we need to say it. There is an investment here. There is an investment here. It's not going to come — can you learn voiceover on YouTube? Can you learn voiceover from reading books? Can you learn voiceover from Googling? There's a lot that you can take from that. But then there's also so much more that you can garner by investing some money into a good coach. This is all about you and your voice and your acting. And so it really helps to work with someone who specializes in taking your voice and teaching you techniques and principles of acting so that you can showcase the very best for your potential clients. And so that's going to cost money.    And I always think, if you are invested enough to want to create a business selling your voice, well, you have to also understand that as a business, you respect other businesses, right? Other businesses, coaches are out there. They have to charge for their services. It's not like I can exist just on my good heart, which I do have a wonderful heart, and Lau, you too.    Lau: You do. You do.    Anne: I can't just spend my hours every day giving away voice lessons. And so there has to be some semblance of a business there. And I always have to say to myself that I need to present a good example of a voiceover business. I've got policies. If they can't make their lesson, if they don't notify me in a certain amount of time, I can't fill that spot again. So that costs me money. So there are things that need to be enforced in business, which I think as a student, right, or as somebody entering into this industry, wanting to be a business, that you also have to learn about and also respect and understand.    Lau: You said a total mouthful too, when you said, you know, respecting the businesses that are in your business. I mean, we wanna respect everyone in the world, but when we're talking about our industry, like be respectful of others' businesses that are working alongside you, with you, and for you to help you create and grow a business. Their time is valuable. Their time is money, in essence, right? We don't like to think of it that way, but we never wanna apologize for having value monetarily. You have to have value.    Sure, you can do pro bono work. Sure, you can do projects without getting paid. Sure, you can do all of that. But it has to live alongside a paradigm of career and really building something that is viable, meaning I'm getting my return, and I'm also investing, and I'm also having some luxury of profit. And that is called building a business. And so when we come out to people, we say, oh, well, how much is this gonna be? Well, that's expensive. Well, I can't afford that. You're automatically unintentionally disrespecting that person's not just time and effort, but their education. You're paying for their history, their value --    Anne: Their experience.   Lau: -- their schooling, all the connections they have and know, their studio. I mean, on and on it goes. You are paying for that. It's not just about a product; it's about a a process. And so really just making sure people understand that. If you feel like someone is charging you too much money, that's fine. Then walk away from it and don't spend it. But just know they're basing their value off what they think their value is based in all those areas. It isn't just, oh, I'm slapping on a price tag of this. It's like I'm bringing this to the table and guess what? I'm not 20 or 30, I'm 50, I'm 60. So I'm bringing you all those years of knowledge and wisdom.   Anne: Experience. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, respect the business. Respect the people that are in the business that are helping you get into the business. And also expecting things to be easy or cheap, I would say educate yourself enough about the industry to know that with anything, right, you're going to have to make an investment. I wish that there weren't people out there selling the dream, but I think you're gonna have that for just about anything, not just voiceover, right? There's gonna be, I'm gonna sell you the dream. Gosh, there were so many and there probably still are infomercials on, come to my seminar. You too can flip a house and make thousands of dollars, and you can make thousands of dollars in, in a short amount of time. So that whole selling the dream, if it seems too good to be true, typically it is.   Lau: (laughs)   Anne: And so that's something to be aware of. So how long will it take me? This is the other question, how long will it take me to get a return on my investment?    Lau: That's a really tough question to answer. It really is. And I, I just have to say to your point for people to remember --I had a colleague that gave me this really adorable sign one time from my birthday. It was like a mechanic with this old fashioned truck, and he was fixing the truck, and it said on it, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And I never forgot.    Anne: Yep. I love that love.    Lau: I don't know if I have the signs still, but I never forgot that. I thought it was funny and kitchy, but it's so true. Like you get what you pay for oftentimes. You really, really do. Not always, but much of the time, that principle is really true. And to be perfectly honest with everyone and all your peeps, I'm gonna be honest with, I don't feel I can give you an answer to that question of what am I gonna make and how much time I'm gonna make it in, and when am I gonna be successful? That really is an individual's journey and choice as to how much time, effort, investment, heart, soul, blood, tears, whatever you're gonna put into this. The harder you run at it, the more you put into it, the more you focus and intensify, the more opportunities tend to come because there's that work breeds work kind of energy that you're putting into the world. Like, I'm working, I know you're this way, Anne. If someone says, are you busy? Are you bored?  Say there's no such thing. Bored is not in your vocabulary.    Anne: Never, never.    Lau: Because you're always working, you're working. Whether you're being paid or not, you're always working. And that energy, that mystical energy goes into the world, and people are attracted to that. There's an attraction to that. It's not just being busy, it's being engaged, it's being excited. It's being enthralled by things. People want to magnetically latch onto that. So I would say in order to get that success, whatever that is that you're looking for, get busy. Get busy on being busy and get engaged. And the more you're engaged, the more potential outcomes that are pleasing you are gonna happen.    Anne: Well, I think return on your investment, okay. So investment, usually when people say that to you, or they're asking you that question, when will I get a return on my investment? They're talking about their money. And in reality, what you've just wrapped all into, besides the money, is your effort. Right? And your time and what you put into it. So in reality, when you're asking me, when will I get a return on my investment? Well, I will come right back to you and say, well, how committed are you to investing your time, your energy into making this a success? And a lot of it does depend on you.    Now, if you're gonna sink a few thousand dollars into some coaching and a demo, then you expect to get a job how long after? A lot of times two people will say, all right, now that I got my demo, how long will it take for me to get my first voiceover job? And again, that really shows up into your effort in terms of how are you going to go out and get that job? Because you can have the best voice in the world, you have the best demo in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and they can't pay you for it.    Lau: And aren't you and I constantly breaking down the map biology of, okay, I will answer that question with a question, which no one likes, but okay, let's break down your day. Can we break down your week? Can we look at actually what you're investing day to day and week to week? And then all of a sudden, the door opens of knowledge, and sometimes it's like what you don't wanna see of Pandora's box coming out. Like, oh, I'm only doing this. I don't have time to do this. Or this is harder for me.   Anne: Or I don't have time to do the homework. I give my students homework. And I'll be like, okay, so I saw that you were able to record a couple of pieces of copy , and I'll just say it like that. Okay. So they'll be like, well, okay, so am I ready for my demo? And I'll say, well, I noticed that you only recorded two out of your 20 pieces of copy. And so if I'm giving you too much homework, you just let me know. But I will say that you need to invest the time in doing this, and I give you homework not to make you cry or not to overwhelm you. It's to kind of get you in a discipline where you can be working.    This is what it's going to be like to be working every day. This is what it's going to take for you to record this, edit it, prep it as if you were doing an audition, and just store it in that Dropbox and name it appropriately. Right? So all of these things that I'm giving for homework are really lessons in, here's what a voiceover artist does in their day. I'm submitting an audition, I'm naming it correctly, I'm uploading it on time. And so, most of the time I'll come back and say, I really need you to put in this time. Or they'll reschedule lesson after lesson after lesson, and then it will be like six months before I see them again. And I'm like, we've lost the momentum.    Lau: That's right. And it's like, can you see the forest through the trees?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Like is there logic to your line of, is there reasoning even to your line of thinking?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Like one of my coaches recently, an anecdote, one of my coaches said to me, I'm frustrated because this person wants to get on the demo track and wants to do the demo and is quickly, doesn't have money, da, da, da, but is not doing the homework and is coming to the table and just using a lot of excuses as to why they could not prepare for the session.    Anne: Yeah, exactly.   Lau: And he said, said simply, he was frustrated, but he said, do they realize they're going into voiceover? Do they even know what that profession is? And I said, no, they haven't made that connection yet. It's for us to do the teaching moments and making the connection that what you're going into is extremely demanding, and very fast, and crazy hours and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. But a lot of our clients, Anne, I think you could say the same thing, right? They're not seeing the forest through the trees where they're seeing this overview of what they think the industry is, but the weeds, getting really into the weeds of what it is the coaching is simulating, trying to simulate what a work experience might be like. So if it's hard for you to do your homework, then it'll be near impossible for you to do the auditions and jobs.    Anne: Yeah. Oh, I teach a lot of long format narration, right? So when I give homework, they are the full spots. They'll be two to four minutes, sometimes even longer if it's e-learning. And they'll say, okay, but that was a really long spot. And I'm like, well, that's the reality of it, right? And so I need to make sure that you as an actor are completely committed to that script three quarters of the way through. Three minutes in, are you still as committed as you were in the beginning? And I want you to edit that entire thing as if it were an audition. So they're like, well, do I have to edit? And I'm like, I'm kind of giving it to you all at once so that you can understand what it takes, right, to put out a job that is a four-minute job. How long will it take you to edit that? And I want you to get better at it. I want you to get faster at it.    Lau: It's a simulated journey of --   Anne: Exactly.    Lau: It's a journey that you pay for to invest so that you can go with very little to no stakes. Right? To go into a high stake situation.    Anne: Yeah. And if you're working with me, right? And you wanna know how long it will take before you can do voiceover -- I mean, if you're just gonna meet with me once a week, then that's an hour out of your week that you've spent doing voiceover. You're gonna progress an hour at a time. And if you're gonna ask me 10 weeks later, I'm like, well, you've spent exactly 10 hours with me. And in a given workday, we might work eight hours a day or 10 hours a day, or we work a 40-hour work week. You've only worked with me for 10 hours total of your lifetime, and you wanna know if you're ready for a demo. Now, does that make sense? Does that make sense?    Lau: There's no sense to it. But then again, there's no understanding of the logic of what actually goes into it. Right? Like they literally may not get just yet what goes into building a career and building voiceover. And if someone is coming to me, which I get a lot; a client saying, I'm frustrated Lau because I'm already doing an hour or two a week of this. I can't put any more time into it, this is where I have to be kind and say, um, I get that. And you're busy and you work full-time, you have — I get that. But just continually regroup. And is your vision clear, understandable, and realistic about what you're going into?    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Lau: Because what you're going into is going to demand that you give as much as you can to it.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. It is the hardest thing. And I will be the first to admit, because when I worked part-time and voiceover when I was working a full-time job, a family, a full-time job, and voiceover is tough. There's so much focus that has to go into voiceover. Because remember, people, this is our business. It is. We are entrepreneurs. And unless your full-time job is your other full-time business, and it's yours, you are typically also navigating an unfamiliar world of, oh, I have my own business. I have to generate my own business. I have to market myself. I have to put on a trillion different hats. And so there's more than just getting in the studio and recording and editing. Now there is all the marketing, there's all the --I've gotta have a website. I've gotta be able to do auditions so that I can present myself with opportunities so that I can get work. So there's a lot, in addition to just doing voiceover in your booth.   Lau: We're like one man bands. One woman bands. We really are. It's like putting on hats, hats, hats, hats. You have to own a lot of hats to be in this profession, because you're always gonna be shifting your hat. Any kind of business owner, if you're a solopreneur and you work alone, you're always shifting the hats. I think also too, Anne, we're fighting against the new mantra of teaching business leaders or teaching people who wanna be BOSSes that you can work for two or three hours a week and then sit on a beach for the rest of that time. That's like this new mantra that's out there in marketing. Like make six figures, make even seven figures. Lay on that beach with your children and just work a couple hours a week.    Anne: Couple hours a day. Yeah. If that, yeah.    Lau: I'm not gonna say it's a lie. I'm not gonna say that, but I am going to say there's a slight fabrication, maybe even an embellishment in that, because I know for a fact that even the tech billionaires are working all the time. And why are they working all the time? Because people who own stuff, run stuff, and lead stuff are innovators. They're inquisitive, they're interested. Whether you like what they do or agree with it is another thing. I'm just saying, they're invested in it. Their whole life is that. Even after they sell it sometimes.    Anne: Entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, that is the definition.    Lau: Entrepreneurs.   Anne: Of an entrepreneur, Lau.    Lau: Yeah. We have a very, very well-known furniture company in New England that has been around for ages like 40 years. And they were run by two brothers, and they were constantly on TV together, constantly. The face --   Anne: Oh, who? Do I remember them?    Lau: Jordan's Furniture.    Anne: Oh yeah. Okay.    Lau: One of the brothers sold his piece years ago. Well, guess what? We never see the brother that owns it. We only see that brother on tv. And he's constantly there. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he's the one who still has the shares. I mean, they sold the whole company now. They've been in business for a long time. But the point is, I still see him. He's on all the time because he's the face of the company. He's the feel of the company. He's much older now. He still does all the commercial campaigns. He could say, hey, I'll be on the beach. Good luck. Good luck. He made his money, he made millions.    Anne: That's true.    Lau: Doesn't matter. His heart and his feel as a human being is to wanna stay connected to the company, to wanna stay connected to where it's going. So my point is, is like, are we ever laying back doing nothing to build a company? No. That's false.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. My return on investment, I mean, honestly, right? Investment is so much more than money. So I want you guys to really think in terms outside of money -- blood, sweat, tears, effort, practice, and of course money when you're investing money too. But that investment falls not just in your wallet, but in your time and in your commitment. And how long will it take? I think that that really is entirely up to you, (laughs). How long will it take to get a return on investment? And will you get a return on your investment?    I wish I could guarantee people things. And I always say, honestly, if you put the work in and you're committed, and as long as I can understand what you're saying, right? There's so much out there. Do I have the voice for voiceover? We all do. We all have our own unique voice, and it's beautiful, and it's beautiful to people in different ways. And so yeah, sure. It's not about the voice, to be honest with you. It's not really about the voice.   Lau: And sometimes there's just no real rhyme or reason. You could call it fate, you could call it mystical, you could call it whatever you want, as to what jobs are coming to you. In the same day, I mean, when I do my agent work, I'll get a $400 job in perpetuity with nothing residual or whatever, and okay. And then in the same day, I'll get a $15,000 job, which doesn't take a whole lot more time to record or a whole lot more effort. It's just the nature of it is very, very different. And the usage is very different, and the client is very different. And how they came to me and us, sometimes it's just fate. And other times it's the hard work of your branding, your marketing, your staying with it year after year that your name just floats into the universe and they get it.   Anne: Sure. And it just becomes a known brand. Yeah. So how much will I make (laughs)? Will I get a return on my investment and how long? BOSSes, it's up to you. It's up to you. So, and we have all the faith that you can absolutely do it. So, ah, good conversation. Good conversation.    Lau: I love that. I love that. So empowering.    Anne: So BOSSes, here's a chance, not only to be a BOSS at your own business, but here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. And a big shout-out to our favorite ipDTL sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week.    Lau: See you next week, bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To create a successful voiceover performance, authenticity is key. This can involve using props, physicalizing the script, and infusing in personal experiences to deliver a realistic & engaging read. Anne & Lau emphasize the importance of intention, nuance, and understanding the corporate story & mission. Just as a chef must gather and prepare ingredients before cooking a delicious meal, hard work and effort are necessary before reaping the rewards.Want to improve your performance? Try taking notes, emphasizing key words, and using aids like pictures & videos, and of course, tune into VO Boss! We'll guide you through it.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing special guest co-host, BOSS lady Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey, hey. Hey, Anne.    Anne: So Lau, I am very excited that it's early morning, and I have my coffee.    Lau: Me too. What would we do without it?    Anne: I know. So many people have contacted me and said, it sounds like you and I in the booth in our podcast are just sharing a cup of coffee and shooting, shooting the breeze, having a conversation,    Lau: High balling the water, which you gotta do in between the coffee.    Anne: That's right. That's right.    Lau: Just to wash the vocal folds out.    Anne: Let me share — there's my big old water bottle with the coffee.    Lau: And then I'm gonna show everyone, I think everyone already knows this about us. Watch this. We're gonna do this as well.    Anne: (laughs). I love your lipstick. Oh, so here's mine.    Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate!   Anne: Right? Wonder powers activate. So, yeah, my red. But you know what, guys? Maybe one of these days I'm gonna switch it up.    Lau: Hmm. Ooh, you should. You should.    Anne: Oh gosh.    Lau: Naked lips. Let's see what naked lips look like without the red. That would be fun.    Anne: I feel like I'm so pale. (laughs), but I feel like I'm so pale.    Lau: You are pale. But that's your beauty.    Anne: Pale without my lips. Well.   Lau: But you know what I just noticed, Anne? You know what I just noticed? Literally, I just observed this, that we just used like three props. Three props.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: In our world.    Anne: We totally did.    Lau: And we were talking all the way through that, as we always do. And we had no problem using the props, talking and connecting, getting our points across. And that suddenly just dawned on me, like, that's a part of our world in finding connection --    Anne: That's what we do.   Lau: — and authenticity with each other.    Anne: That's what we do in the booth. Interesting. So let's chat about this. Let's take this apart, because you know, I do this a lot when I'm trying to talk to students about being authentic and believable with the script. And I think what just throws the whole wrench into it is that we've got these words in front of us, and all of a sudden we don't know how to make them a part of us. And interestingly enough, like we just demonstrated, and BOSSes out there, you just heard it, even if you're not looking at us on YouTube, we were able to pick up objects and share ideas, and have a conversation, engage with one another, and not miss a beat. And we weren't even thinking about it. But what I want you guys to do is let's take a look at, a more in-depth look at this to kind of figure out how we can take what we do in real life and translate it into the booth to be believable and authentic. Right? Bring that real life into the booth.    Now, one thing, I think that was first and foremost, we talked about props, right? Ah, I always have my trusty lipstick or my cup of coffee, or probably most of you have one of these, a phone or even just a mouse (laughs). Like you must have something in your booth.    Lau: I mean, it's endless what we have really with us. And doesn't that make us feel comforted and taken care of? And we identify with that brush in a lot of ways. It's part of our life.    Anne: I'm bringing all my makeup out. I've even got jewelry in here, but (Lau laughs), in case I --   Lau: I think a man's gonna pop up all of a sudden. (laughs),    Anne: Gosh only knows I have tons of these, the headphones in there. So now, if you're trying to sound authentic and believable, one thing that we've covered multiple times in our podcast is there's not a perfect voice. Right? There's all sorts of imperfection in our voices, and a lot of that can translate -- I mean, not that — everybody has a beautiful, wonderful voice all on their own. You don't have to perform behind the mic, right? It just is beautiful when we're engaging. And so props can help us to bring that scene to life, right? I know I just had a really wonderful workshop with the amazing Ellen Dubin, and she was talking about video game acting, and all of it was about blocking, get up, move around, change your position. Do that, because that's gonna add that reality.    And I'm always telling people physicate behind the mic, because that's gonna make our vocals not perfect for some reason. If we sit silent and straight behind the booth, and we just read these words, hello everyone, and welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, and the BOSS Superpower series, right? So I'm just reading, but I'm not moving, that physical part of having a prop, having somebody to talk to 00 expressing, expressing with our bodies.    Lau: I love this. You know, you had me physicate. Like I have never heard anyone use that word. So I'm stuck on physicate. But yeah, I would love voice actors to take it a step farther and just Johnny Depp it out. Like take their script and go somewhere. Go to a store, go to a Starbucks, go to a library, go be in your car, and I want you to deliver that. Deliver the line as part of your universe.    Anne: What a great idea.    Lau: Yeah!   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? Doesn't the booth at times sort of pen us and it becomes boxy to us in our minds where we can literally move it outside, move it, and see how it flows and works, and physicate in that environment. Like, if I'm ordering a drink or I'm getting food, or I'm sitting at a table, or I'm da da -- how would that line live within that universe versus only within the universe of the booth? I mean, ultimately, we can't do that on every script, but as part of your actor's work, it's well worth the time to do that so that you can bring that imagination back into the reality of your beliefs.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: And relive that, you know, relive those moments.    Anne: What I like is, even if, alright, let's say you've got a very dry corporate narration script, right? Maybe a company talking about their corporate responsibility, which may not be the most exciting stuff that you'll ever hear in the world. So for me, I'm always telling people, in order to kind of make it sound conversational, and it may not be written conversational at all, or authentically, or it's basically like here, this is stuff that you would typically read. You wouldn't necessarily say it out loud. You would typically just read it and then understand it as information that the company has provided to you. Take that script and put it into your own words. So you might have this long run-on line that's talking about corporate responsibility and all of these things about what we are doing to promote corporate responsibility in the workplace. And so take that, those words, and just put it into your own words.    And when you can take that sentence, which sometimes most of the time is a run-on sentence and formulate your own speech about it, or your own personal conversation about it to someone else, explain it to someone else, that's gonna give you the idea behind the melody and the point of view that you wanna take. And then all you do is, when you get in the booth, replace it with the words. But you have the intent, you have the point of view, you have the thought of, here, it's this idea, and then this idea, and then I'm gonna combine it with this idea. And then that's the finished sentence. So it's kind of allowing you to regroup the information that's presented in the sentence in a very structured way and creating it in your own authentic way.    Lau: That's right. And you have to think of your work like you're layering a cake. You have the cake; to some degree, you have the cake. Even if you're at the beginning of your career, you still have some sort of cake. It might be a demo, it might be a beginner level studio, whatever it is. But I have to layer that over time and make it more interesting. So for instance, if I were to take my pen, my trusty prop, and talk about my corporate responsibility script, I might take a note on that. Because if I'm working in corporate, I'd be writing down minutes, I'd be taking notes as I went. And that puts me in a mindset, a frame. It gives me a framework to work by that when I'm corporate -- and this is just my choice, it's not the right choice, it's just my choice — when I'm corporate, I always tend to write a few notes. I tend to take a moment to write things down. That changes my sound, it changes my pace, it changes everything.    Anne: So that physical action of writing something down — also, the fact is, is what would you write down? Right? If you had that big, long run on sentence, right? What are the notes that you would take? Right? Typically, those notes are the most important parts of the sentence, right? Those are the notes that you as an actor want to probably linger on a little longer. So when we talk about being authentic, and Lau, and I, when we're speaking, our pacing isn't the same. Sometimes I, I pause, like I just did, and sometimes my words are longer. And usually the ones that are are longer the ones I want her to hear more. And so when you're creating those notes, right, you're creating, this is an important point that I wanna express to someone. So that word can be a little bit longer than maybe the word the (laughs) or the word at the beginning. At the, at the, or just tiny little words that connect. Beginning is an important word. So at the beginning, notice how at the becomes almost like a, I don't know, a 16th note in melody if I was speaking vocally, but in the beginning, beginning is an important word, so I'm gonna linger on that.    Lau: We can emphasize, you need to linger on that, right? If every word is the same, and every word is important, nothing's important. (laughs).   Anne: Right? It sounds monotonous and robotic.    Lau: Like what's important if every word is important, right?    Anne: Right.    Lau: But if I take that pen -- and to me this is a corporate moment or a business moment, or whatever you wanna call it-- I think maybe I'm gonna do bullets, how I would do in my life. I'd take a sentence, I'd take a thought, and I'd pull a word or two out of it that are my emphasis words, my bullets, and do like little bullets. and say, wow, out of that sentence, I got coffee. That was the word of the day for me, coffee as a bullet. So that when I go back and I review that for my speaking, I can remember, I can mark that coffee, that the word coffee or the name of the coffee is really an emphasis for me.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Lau: This helps me with that. Like, because then I'm gonna say coffee, like Starbucks coffee.    Anne: Right.    Lau: And I'm gonna use this.    Anne: And the other thing too that I think is super important to remember is that we talked about you taking the script and going out into the real world with it, right, and start practicing with it and playing off of maybe someone else. Notice how you said, well, let's play off of someone else. I mean, when we started this podcast, you and I were talking to one another. We were engaging with one another.    Lau: Yep.    Anne: Well, when we're sitting here in our studios behind the mic with a script, you cannot be alone (laughs) just saying. In your head, you must be the person that is speaking. And you must also have your imaginary friend that you are speaking to. And so you want to make sure that you are engaging with that audience member or that listener. And so you must talk to them, and they will have reactions for you or questions or comments. Right? And you cannot just start talking to them like, oh gosh, have you ever had a friend, Lau, that you can't get a word on edgewise? Like, and it's basically all about yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, ya. It's all about them. Right? All about their monologue.    And so when you're behind the mic, don't let it be all about your monologue. Let it be about you engaging with your listener and allowing that listener a beat to acknowledge, to respond, to have a question, whatever that is. And I'm not talking about you have to time things, but that's an imaginary beat where I've said something, and now Lau, I'm looking for you to respond, right? You just shook your head, right? You just went, mm-hmm. So that's where I think we need to also invite that into our script, right? And invite that real life into our script.    Lau: You have to do it. It's so important. And have cheaters if you have trouble reaching that at times. Like in our daily life, we're not always great conversationalists, or we're not always in the mood for a talk or whatever. So you have to have those cheaters, whether you're talking to your kid or your dog, or a photo or a video or something that stimulates you into thinking, this is part of my daily experience. This is part of a reality of my life that I can connect to right now, that I can make real. Because I may not be in the mood or in the mindset every single day to connect to that particular audition or to connect to that particular product.    Anne: What I love is like literally like now that I've sat here, and I'm taking notice and, and BOSSes out there, really, let's watch the YouTube video on this, because I was just watching you, Lau, and everything you said, you had your hands, everything you said, and I was responding. I was shaking my head, I was going, mm-hmm. So that's the parts that you have to play in your script. And believe it or not, even in a mundane medical narration script or in a telephone prompt, believe it or not -- I'm always imagining, here I am and I'm talking to the listener and they've got their thoughts about me (laughs). Because maybe they don't wanna listen to an automated attendant. Maybe they're angry, maybe they're frustrated. But yet I will still talk to them with a tone where I'm like, I know you're frustrated. I know that you don't wanna listen to my voice, but let me help you. Okay? And so that point of view, that intention — all of a sudden, I'm speaking about intentions so much lately -- I think that intention, before you even approach voicing or opening your mouth, I think your intention is so very important.    Lau: So very important. And you know, in the script, in this context, it would be an actor's intention because you're in a false reality. You're not in your real reality; you're in this technical reality.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: But then you have intentions or purpose, or whatever you call it in your daily life and thinking about, wow, how much do I care about things? How much do I connect? How much do I try to make action happen and go well? Well, I have to bring that intention into the booth. I have to bring that into the booth. And I think if we were honest, we would say, in our daily life, half the stuff we do is crap. It's like chores. It's like, I have to go to the dump because I have --   Anne: I don't want to go to the dump.   Lau: -- bring my trash. Right? (Anne laughs). But how do I have a joyous life still being able to go to the dump? Well, I keep the intention alive that it's not about me hating to go to the dump. It's about me wanting to have a clean and wonderful household.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Lau: That's really what it is. So it's the same with the script. if I have a disdain or I have a dislike for the delivery or for the language, or for the content --   Anne: Or the message, maybe. Right? Yeah.    Lau: — then I'm skirting the intent. What's the intent? Oh, the intent is to get you to understand how this new product worked, or, or how the new program is gonna help your lifestyle. That's really what it is. It's like a, in acting, we call this the super intention, the super objective.    Anne: Maybe this is the wrong way to phrase it, but I think intention can change throughout the script. So you don't come at the script in the first couple of sentences with a particular intention and it stays that same intention. Because a lot of times, right, we're there to tell a story. And so intention point of view changes along with the storyline. And if you're not necessarily reading that, right, or understanding that, then you're not doing a good job at telling the story. Lau, at the beginning when we were talking about coffee, I was like, oh, thank God, coffee. I was, was that sense of relief. And then we started talking about, well, my lipstick, I get excited, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So I have a different, and it may not be an extreme change in my emotion, but I talked about my lipstick. I'm like, it made me smile. Right? And so that was a different intention. And as we flowed with the conversation, our point of view changed. Our intention changed to help us to go along and flow with the storyline.    Lau: Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you BOSSes listening in can have fun, you know, treat it like a board game, have fun with your actor friend, or your accountability buddy, or even with your husband — have fun and take a few minutes and say, okay, what are all the things I'm using in my world here that can be helpful to the delivery of the read? But, oh, wait a second. What's the intention? What's the intention of this? Why do I take a moment and put this on? There's a reason for it, there's a purpose for it, whatever that is. Why do I pick up my water bottle and drink it? Sure, it makes me feel good and it's delicious. But the intention is what, to hydrate.    Anne: To be healthy.    Lau: To to be healthy, right? Why do I drink my coffee cup if I'm delivering a script, right? It's not just for Anne to see that I'm drinking coffee. It's for me to feel energized, to feel warm, to feel connected. Coffee's a big psychological connector for a lot of people. Right?    Anne: And notice all of the emotions that go along with that. I mean, that is something to really think about. I think that, you know, I'm always telling my students that there's a purpose for every word. Even if you don't agree with all of the words that are there, there's a purpose for them being on the paper. Somebody somewhere at some point thought about what they wanted to communicate, and all of those words have meaning. So to just read through them as if they didn't have meaning or any point of view, I think is a disservice. It's a disservice to the copy. It's a disservice to the story that you're telling. And so, no matter how nuanced it is, right? You don't have to be like, oh my God, I'm so happy! And then, oh, I'm very, very -- you know, it doesn't have to be that to be dramatic. Nothing has to be dramatic. As a matter of fact, the more nuanced you are, I think, the more you, you can really connect. And the people that are listening, they'll get that. And sometimes I feel like nuances mean more. I really believe that.   Lau: Nuances are life.    Anne: Yeah, exactly.    Lau: Right?   Anne: And it can really, really have meaning. And so I say look for the meaning in the point of view. And the point of view to me is synonymous with bringing yourself to the copy. Bringing an emotion to the copy that is reflective of how you feel the company would like to bring that emotion out to the potential client.    Lau: Anne, hold on one second. Hold on. I'm coughing. (laughs).    Anne: All right, no problem.    Lau: I love nuances though. I wanna say something about that. My intention (laughs).    Anne: Now see, there's a real world moment there where Lau is actually having a little bit of a coughing spell and(laughs), see, and I've reacted to it. Show a little bit of concern.   Lau: I don't mind if you show that too, Anne; I don't mind if you keep that in, because the intention sometimes changes with the same item. So we don't have to stay static on our intentions, is exactly what you saying. The nuance of being hydrated is important. We do it and we know it's important. But see how my intention changed? I had to get myself out of the coughing fit by dealing with the vocal folds quickly so that I could continue the conversation. So it deepened, the stakes got higher. It became much more important that I drank the water.    Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So the prop in itself changes. It changes, the intention gets deeper. You change it. You have the power, you have the superpower to take your environment and have it utilize it in your favor to solve your problem or to fill your need.    Anne: And I think also -- so it goes beyond just like a surface — here are some words on a piece of paper. Let me read them and let me try to figure out what this company is saying. Like what we've done is we've actually brought in so many components of our real world experiences to help us to tell this story better. And I think it warrants, BOSSes, it warrants a little bit of time from you before you run in your studio and do your audition. I say this all the time, I feel like there's this, I don't know, a long time ago, there was like, somebody said, you must do this many auditions in a day. And all of a sudden we become like, I must get 60 auditions out a day in order to be successful in voiceover.    And in reality, like getting 60 auditions out a day probably does nothing for your performance in terms of, if you're just so intent on rushing through them, and you're not thinking about what's the story? How am I going to bring this to life? And I believe it takes a few minutes of your time -- not a ton. You don't have to spend hours breaking apart a script. But you do need to spend a few minutes really kind of reading, rereading, trying to find out what is the true message. And again, I'm always saying, sometimes we will get auditions, and I'll be like, I have no idea what this is even talking about. Now when that happens, that means that Anne has to look at the script again and again, and really try to read those words. Do my Google, Anne GanGoogle, do my Google to find out what I can, if the product is listed or the company is listed, or even any phrase that seems like it might be a tagline, Google it. God, we are so lucky, right, to have that?   Lau: So lucky.    Anne: And to just try to understand what is the story? Because again, somebody was paid probably a good deal of money to sit down and write that story. And you just may not be privy to what product it is or what company it is. But you have to understand what that story is. And I think a lot of times, it's probably purposely vague because they wanna see who the actors are. (laughs). They wanna see who can bring those words alive and tell the story. And that requires our imagination. And every time I ask somebody to think about corporate and what's your moment before when you're gonna do this corporate responsibility -- everybody's like, what? Like, what do you mean? What's my moment before? Why would I ever say this?    And you really must, because to somebody at that company, it's their heart. Like they're responsible, like their corporate responsibility is, this is their purpose. This is something probably that came very deep within, or I wanna say this, I mean, unless you're an evil company, right? I mean, but (laughs) for most companies, like my company mission, my company purpose, come from a very deep, deep within my soul because I formed that company because I believe that I had a product that would help someone. And that's what I like to believe about all corporate scripts. And that helps me, by the way, to get into a purposeful and positive mind frame, to be able to voice just about any corporate script. Because that's how I, I assume every founder or owner of a company must feel at some point like, I'm gonna form this company 'cause I have this great idea. This is gonna help people. And yeah, of course, maybe I can make some money too off of it. But I like to always consider the heart mission of a company or a product that.   Lau: Love that. Because it's so easy to flatten out and just perfunctory-ize -- I think I just made up a new word. Perfunctory-ize, meaning just not come with any sense of joy, energy or imagination to something that you don't care about or you don't know about. But to understand, and this is to me the true empathy factor of nuance. Like to me, the more nuanced person -- like you're a tremendously nuanced person because you have a depth of understanding and knowledge and empathy --   Anne: Empathy is huge.    Lau: — and what someone else is going through and living through.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And you don't have to necessarily know or have experienced it yourself. You just have the knowledge and the history behind you to know it is a truth. It is their truth. And so I have to take a little bit of time to find intention to represent their truth. And that's nuance right there.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. If somebody asked me what's the most important component as a voice actor that you can have? Or what's the most important thing to think about as a voice actor to be authentic and believable and real when you're voicing a script? I would say empathy. And empathy toward your listener. Who is your listener? What are their joys? What are their pains? How can you help them? And how can what you're saying make them feel better, look better, I don't know, make more money, make them healthier — whatever it is, come from a place of service?I just really believe that empathy is the one word that everybody should just have in their back pocket for a great read.    Lau: Well, the more you give the more you do get. And sometimes the get is really like this inner true feeling, whatever that feeling is, that you then connect to the experience. And so you can bring that back to the experience. And so that's why I believe, you know, as actors and as vocal actors, we get addicted to the work, because we get addicted to the feeling of that authentic getting back. So the more we give, the more we potentially can get back. But we have to give true and authentic intention. And if we don't, then it's flat and it's kind of boring, and we fizzle out quickly; we get exhausted.    Anne: Sure, sure.    Lau: It's actually depleting.    Anne: And I think, you know how I can always tell I have, I have a really great read is when I feel it. When I feel it.   Lau: When you feel it. Right.    Anne: But I feel it.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Because sometimes things just happen and it's just like, I don't know how that happened, but it just did.    Lau: It just did.    Anne: It was amazing. Right?   Lau: That's the magic.    Anne: That's the magic. And I wish that I had that for every single read that I do. And I think that as an actor is what I try to achieve, right --   Lau: Yeah.    Anne: — is the feel it felt right. It felt good, it felt authentic and it felt believable. So I always try to tell people to just feel and not listen. And it's so hard to not listen because I think from a very young age, when I got behind the mic and all of a sudden my voice was amplified from that mic, right? Then I felt like, ooh, now I have to sound even better. And interestingly enough, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for just the you that is amplified louder by a device that sits in front of you on a day-to-day basis. We're really just looking to connect with you.    Lau: That's right. And I, I would say be careful of chasing the high. 'Cause a lot of people come in and whether it's the money or the feeling of excitement or whatever — don't get addicted to chasing the high or the dopamine kick. Just know it will be there at times for you. But you gotta like -- think of my analogy of like, you gotta take the trash to the dump. There's a lot of work, there's a lot of groundwork that happens in order for you to come back to the clean home and go, ooh, smells fresh. And I'm feeling good. So you can't get one without the other. You can't get the reward without the real work put in.    Anne: Absolutely. What a great analogy, Lau. Like honestly, like we could just, just all go home now. Like take it to the dump (Lau laughs). BOSSes, take it to the dump, then come back.   Lau: Take it to the dump.   Anne: Take it to the dump and come back refreshed. I love it. Lau, what a really cool discussion. Thank you so much.    Lau: My pleasure.    Anne: BOSSes as individuals, you know, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but of course we've been talking with Lau today and how we can make an impact. Well, if you ever wished that you could make more of an impact with your communities in ways that you never before thought possible, find out at 100voiceswhocare.org. And thank you so much to ipDTL that allows Lau and I to connect and have these amazing conversations. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this new episode I bring to you the main VO Boss lady herself, Miss Anne Ganguzza. Among other things, Anne will talk about what makes a successful VO boss, how to connect with the listener and be engaging, and a few ways to find eLearning and telephony work.Anne invites us to rethink the reason for wanting to get into a particular genre, because if in the end it's all about connecting, she maintains it has to come from a place of wanting to help or wanting to educate others.Anne is a top voice actor, coach, producer, and host of the VOBoss podcast. As a coach, she helps students boost their VO career to the next level, using target-marketed demos and customized marketing strategies. Anne's credits include United Healthcare, Delta, Pearson, Mercedes Benz, PayPal, Wells Fargo, and many more.She has received multiple nominations at the Voice Arts awards including best narration demo, best commercial demo and best podcast. And she won the award for Outstanding Narration Demo in 2017.Throughout the interview we talk about the purpose of motivating and inspiring people, the feeling of being able to help someone as a voiceover artist and what the whole challenge and the entrepreneurship of being a voiceover artist is all about. We also discuss the impact of technology in our jobs, the need of establishing a two-way conversation with our listener and even specific recommendations to read medical terms.You can find more about Anne Ganguzza, including coaching, and demo production on her website www.anneganguzza.com/  I recommend you listen to her VO Boss Podcast, find it on social media as @vo_boss and last but not least, she has her own VO Peeps group, www.vopeeps.com, where she does monthly guest director workouts, and where you can sign up for a membership to receive educational materials and discounts. **Visit www.nickymondellini.com/podcast and download the ebook “Learn to handle the NOs of the industry” for free, and subscribe to receive La Pizarra's monthly newsletter with news about new episodes and various resources for the best development of your artistic career*Squadcast is the best platform to record your podcast or virtual meetings with up to nine guests with professional sound quality. You can download your audio files already mastered with Dolby sound.Choose your membership level after trying it free for seven days at: https://squadcast.fm/?ref=lapizarra*Canva Pro has thousands of templates and images to bring your creations to life, now you can use the calendar to plan the posts you want for the entire month, plus all the tools to create any type of project. Try it free for 30 days at: https://partner.com/canva/lapizarraDon't forget to subscribe to La Pizarra to have access to all the episodes, download them and share them on social networks, your comments are well received too!** Visit https://www.nickymondellini.com to learn about the work of actress, host and broadcaster Nicky Mondellini.Nicky Mondellini is an artist of international stature with more than thirty years of artistic career, her voice is heard in commercials on television, radio and digital platforms worldwide. She is the host and producer of La Pizarra with Nicky Mondellini since 2020.Her work as an actress includes more than twelve telenovelas, several classical and contemporary Spanish plays, short and feature films, and the hosting of morning shows in Mexico and the United States, as well as image commercials, and advertising and corporate videos.Follow Nicky on:Instagram @nickymondelliniTwitter @nicky3ch_nickyFacebook https://www.facebook.com/nickymondellinivoiceoverLinkedIn https://linkedin.com/nickymondellinivoiceover

If you're new to the voice over industry, there's a lot to learn. Luckily there are plenty of resources out there that can help you get your bearings and start building your career. Anne is joined by special guest Tracy Lindley, a voice actor & expert on utilizing LinkedIn as a marketing tool for voice actors. On LinkedIn, it's all about relationships—and not just with other actors. Remember to focus on fostering genuine connections and optimizing your online presence to attract potential clients. With persistence and the right strategies, you'll be well on your way to establishing a thriving career in voice acting. Stay engaged, keep learning, and watch your network—and opportunities—grow.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring very special guest, Tracy Lindley to the podcast. Hey Tracy.   Tracy: Hey Ann. How's it going?   Anne: It's going great. So a little bit about Tracy. Tracy's been a full-time voice actor since 2014 -- we are kind of twinsies on that one -- and regularly voices projects for clients like Hewitt Packard, Realtor.com, iHeartRadio, Health.com, and many others. She is a well known expert in the field of LinkedIn and finding clients and is also a mom to four kids, ages 7 to 13, who also do voiceover. And she lives in the Midwest area where it's very cold right now.   Tracy: Yes, I'm bundled up in a sweater.   Anne: Well, Tracy, I am so excited to finally have you here on the show. I feel like we're like ships that pass in the night because I've been following you for such a long time, and I've seen you at conferences, but we've just kind of like passed each other by.   Tracy: I bet I've been following you for longer because I remember when I was first starting out, you had a great interview on VO Buzz Weekly that I watched.   Anne: Oh, I remember that. Yeah.   Tracy: Yes. It was a wonderful two-part interview and I learned so much, and I was like, man, she is just dropping truth bombs on here.   Anne: Well, thank you that I'm very honored about that. My goodness. But you, I mean, my gosh, you are just blazing this path to the stars with your career, and really in the last couple of years, you are absolutely the known person outside of being great in voiceover and talented, but also all about marketing and LinkedIn. And so I'm excited to talk to you about that today, because I was much more involved in LinkedIn a few years back. And then my business kind of, I have separate paths. Now, I'm not as able to keep up as much as I'd like on LinkedIn, so I'm getting ready to learn a whole lot, and BOSSes, I think you're gonna learn a whole lot from this wonderful, wonderful talent here. So let's get going. Before we talk about LinkedIn, tell us a little bit about your journey into voiceover.   Tracy: Well, it started out with me just hanging out, washing dishes in my kitchen, listening to VO Buzz Weekly and other great podcasts like VO BOSS, which is on the resource page that I have on my website to recommend to other talent that are learning.   Anne: Thank you.   Tracy: Because you are always giving us value and you have since the very beginning, and I've learned so much from you. You are a wiz at marketing yourself and a great person just relationally. You know how to connect the dots and how to communicate very well.   Anne: Well, thank you for that.   Tracy: Oh, well you're welcome. I mean, part of the fun of being on podcasts is getting to tell people how much I enjoy them personally because I'm very relational myself, and I think think that if someone was just starting out in the industry, I feel like the best way to get started is to research. And that's what I tell everybody. Research, research, research. Read the articles, listen to the podcasts, watch the vlogs. Do all of those things. And there are some great paid courses too. I recommend all of that stuff because you can't just learn in bits and pieces so much. Sometimes you need to kind of put it all together, and we all connect those dots as we're going along in our journey. But I can't remember now what your original question is. Oh my. My journey.   Anne: Your journey. Yes. Your journey. Because you've been doing this a long time. I think we started around the same time actually, and I was working part-time for a little bit before I went into it full-time. Were you always in it full-time or did you?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay. So you started part-time.   Tracy: I was a claims adjuster for an auto insurance company. And I know you were, from your story, you were working on installing telephone systems, right?   Anne: Yep, absolutely.   Tracy: And that's how you got your start was hey, they needed a voice to be on the systems. And for me, I have a communication degree, and when I was in college, I had an internship at a cable company and one day the producer just handed me a piece of paper and was like, hey, you have a nice voice. Will you read this? I'm like, okay, sure. . So I read it, I get in there, it's no more than a small closet with foam in it in a microphone, right? So it's nothing fancy. So I go in there and I read it, and I just found that I have this natural sense of timing. I knew what 30 seconds should be. And that goes back even further to me just reading out loud to kids at the library when I was like 12, 13, 14.   I just volunteered my time, and I was always like the babysitter that everybody wanted to come and hang out with their kids. So I have read to kids out loud several years of my life and still love reading out loud to my own kids. Reading out loud is such a skill that we don't realize we need to develop. Because when we're reading a book, you know, we're not gonna typically read out loud to ourselves. So sometimes it feels weird and it feels strange, but that's one of the best skills that we can learn when we're getting into into the industry.   Anne: Oh yeah. That's like cold reading skills right there. And I remember myself as a youngster, I would always be that person that would raise the hand -- who wants to read out loud for the class?   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: Me. And I wrote books too when I was really young. When I was in kindergarten, I learned to write, and I started to write books and I read them to the first graders, and it was all about Nibbles the Bunny. But I think that maybe that was so long ago though.   Tracy: Okay. I feel like --   Anne: That was like my start .   Tracy: -- we have got to publish these books. The world needs to see Nibbles the Bunny.   Anne: I'm telling you --   Tracy: Have you considered that?   Anne: ? I wish. I wish that I had a picture of it or a record of what it was that I wrote, but I vividly remember drawing the bunny. I illustrated too. And then I wrote the books, and I was so proud to read them, and all of my career, and I know yours too, I think a lot of voice actors when they get into it, they're good cold readers, or they've always been like excited to read or perform in front of an audience. And it's wonderful for your cold reading skills. And then I think what happens is, as we really get into the acting of voiceover, then it becomes something where you don't wanna use that as a crutch. You wanna use it to get yourself to quickly get into the story, but then you need to act. And then if you're reading too much and then it's gonna sound like you're reading too much, but I digress. But I think it's a wonderful skill that everybody needs in order to just, you know, be quick on their feet. Once you get those script changes that come in like at the last minute, you've gotta be able to do a quick cold read and understand and comprehend that story so that you can then tell it back while you're voicing it.   Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to have that -- that child doesn't have those inhibitions that we do as adults. So I feel like if we could just tap into our inner child, we wouldn't be scared of it, you know, because we can all get performance anxiety, especially the more and more and more people come into the room to listen to us perform, it just becomes so scary. So it really all comes down to just reading out loud, having fun with it, telling a story. That's what we're here for.   Anne: Absolutely. Now this is a little earlier than I was gonna get into it, but you're a mom of four kids, so big family. I'm also one of four in the family. Actually through the pandemic I became one of six and that's just a whole 'notherpodcast where I found out I had a brother and a sister, which is a wonderful thing. But I loved being a family where we're close in age. Tell me about your family, 'cause they're also doing voiceover, and I love how you just talked about how we need to be kids, we need to feel uninhibited. And so do you work with your kids and then also learn from them as well or be reminded of that as well?   Tracy: Oh gosh, I'm always learning lessons from them. And a lot of those lessons involve being patient and being a good communicator, breaking down what I need from you and saying it nicely. .   Anne: Oh yeah. And hey, that works in marketing too, right? .   Tracy: Yeah, that's true. I mean direct communication, but doing it kindly is I think a big key to marketing effectively.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: But my kids are always teaching me stuff. Like last night, my daughter, she's nine, she's the middle daughter'cause I have a son and then three girls.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: So the middle daughter is right in that sweet spot. You see a lot of auditions that come through 8 to 10, 8 to 10. So she's right there. She's also recently started taking vocal lessons. They do coach as well. Martha Khan is an excellent teacher for kids. Love her, my kids love her. But my daughters, all four of the kids actually take piano lessons, so --   Anne: I did too.   Tracy: Oh yes. It's great. We need that musicality.   Anne: It's so wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And I use that musicality when I coach as well because there's a melody to conversation. There's a melody in which most people are trying to achieve that natural, conversational, authentic, and there's a melody to it, believe it or not, if you break it down, so.   Tracy: Were you a vocalist as well? Or are you still?   Anne: Yeah, I mean I don't sing professionally, but you know, I sing in the shower, but for the longest time I was in choir for all four years of high school and went to the all-states and the all-counties and absolutely. I still love, love to sing. And it is something that, and playing piano, understanding where your notes are and being able to read music, it greatly helped breaking down the performance of a conversation. And so yeah. It's the basis of how I teach a lot actually. 'cause there's a lot of people who are musical that come into this industry. So piano's wonderful.   Tracy: Yeah, they really have an advantage. I took lessons, uh, piano lessons for seven years as well. And I definitely see a lot of legato, staccato.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: Those are pretty big themes in what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: And also understanding how to translate what the client is saying. I actually see sort of musically in my head.   Anne: Oh yeah, there's a rhythm. There's definitely a rhythm to it and a beat. And also the emotional part of it too, right, the emotion that gets put into it and the passion that gets put into it. Words are notes and really it's phrasing is very similar, right? We don't breathe in the middle of our phrases when we talk. It's not like I'm going to talk to you like this. You know, , it's, yeah. There's just a whole composition to it and, and I believe in my demo production too, it's a storyline from beginning to end. So it's amazing how much music plays into, at least how I identify and can work within voiceover and also coach it.   Tracy: Yes. Imagination too. We've got to again tap into that inner child where we're able to let ourselves go into the story and become the character.   Anne: Oh yes.   Tracy: My daughter and I both have -- my older daughter, my 11-year-old, she loves like fairy tales, princess stories, anything that involves, you know, that kind of fantasy world. And right now I cannot get her nose out of this book that she's reading. It's the Ella Enchanted author. I can't remember -- her last name is Levine. Anyway, caught her reading by the light of the nightlight last night when she's supposed to be sleeping. But that kind of joy for the story Yeah. Is what we need as adults. And that's another thing that I was talking to my daughter last night with the auditions is that --'cause they needed her to do some giggles. And sometimes it's hard to get kids to laugh on command, and I'll tickle 'emand I'll do whatever I need to, but I'm just like, pretend you're having fun with your friends. I want you to think about the best day. I want you to think about when you do your gymnastics and you just, you love life and let it bubble up and come out of you. So she's still working on that. She's a little nervous in front of the mic still. But it's all part of the journey. So I do learn a ton from my kids. That's a great question that I don't think everyone's ever really asked me before.   Anne: Oh, and you know what's so funny is that when I was teaching, of course I worked in high school, I learned so much, probably more from the kids than they might've learned from me. I mean, my hope was to inspire and motivate them, but boy did I learn a whole lot from them. It's why I coach today because I really feel that give and take, and I can completely understand when you're working with your children. Like it's such a wonderful give and take when you're experiencing that together, and you're learning together and you're guiding her and hopefully getting her super excited to just excel at voiceover, and so great for you. Now how do you find the time? There's the, the question probably everybody asks you, because I was part of a four child family and I know how busy my mom was. She was constantly carting me everywhere to my piano lessons or whatever that was. I also rode horses, but it was a crazy busy time for my mom. So how do you do it all?   Tracy: I just really think time management's important, but also just understanding boundaries. I have worked for many years without my kids being away and with having really limited childcare hours. Because I love my kids and I want to spend time with them. So everything I teach, I say do it in the cracks of life. There's always little windows and bits, and if you can take that, you can actually concentrate it and do more in that time. I've found that since my kids, all four of them, are in school full-time, I have to really reign myself in and plan my day more consecutively to where I'm using it more effectively. Because when I just had two hours and a day to work during nap time, boy, I really hustled. And I really focused on marketing on LinkedIn. That was the thing that I needed to do. I have not enjoyed endless auditioning. That's not something that really floats my boat. I don't love it.   Anne: I don't either.   Tracy: I do auditions. Yeah. And actually, actually I joined Bodalgo.   Anne: Did I say that? Yeah. Don't either.   Tracy: We have to do what we have to do.   Anne: I know.   Tracy: But I don't hardly audition on Voice123 because there's just so many and there's so many people. But I do love of course agents, I will audition everything that I feel is appropriate --   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Tracy: -- for my -- absolutely. So agents, current clients that maybe they need three choices to send to their end person. Yeah. Or some of the different production houses that I'm part of, they'll need auditions and Bodalgo. But really that's it. Most of the time it's directly communicating with the client 'cause that is where I really enjoy.   Anne: Yeah, I love that. And you know, that's so interesting 'cause I feel that we're kind of like soul sisters in that area because right now, the way that I have -- I'm doing a lot of things. I mean, I'm doing this podcast, I'm doing a VO Peeps group and I also coach and I do voiceover, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to auditioning. And so for me it was more about the direct marketing. One of the things that I developed because I didn't have a ton of time, was the BOSS Blast, which was a direct marketing to a list. And that makes total sense that for you, you would go and use LinkedIn or use whatever social platform that worked for you to get those jobs directly because that kind of bypasses a lot of times the need for an audition.   And also I, I would imagine, I'm gonna talk to you about that, like what search engine optimization has to do in LinkedIn that helps you get found, and people maybe reach out to you, and then if they hear your demo or you've got samples up there, I would imagine that then they just say, have an inquiry and say how much would it cost to do this? And for me that's the time saver where I don't have to audition. And it's not that I won't audition, but it's just that I don't have a ton of time. So I had to get more efficient at my marketing. So then let's talk about LinkedIn. Now, why LinkedIn, first of all for you and not some other social platform?   Tracy: Well, I mean the other ones are fun, but when people think about business, they think about LinkedIn. It is the number one most widely used business social media platform. So naturally that's where I was gonna go because I'm not interested in getting followers and being popular online. I'm just here to build those business relationships and grow my business. And I did it. I mean, I would market to as many people as I could. My goal was 20 people per day, new people that I would reach out to. As a young person in my career as a young mom of little kids, I knew my time was limited, so that's where I focused. I said I'm gonna market to 20 people per day. And I kept like a little, just a paper, like a written, handwritten notebook where I would write down names and dates, and then I would, you know, make a note back if someone contacted me back.   But it was just a visual tool to show me that I had actually accomplished something that day. And now I have a resource in my LinkedIn marketing course, the VO Edge, that's called Five Daily Reach Outs. Because 20 is a lot, and I realize that's a lot. So, but five, anybody can do five. And that's why over the years I've learned from people like you, people like Natasha Marcheska, people that know how to break a big task into little tasks. If you do that, you can accomplish so much more because you're not gonna get discouraged. And to have a plan. I guarantee that you don't wake up wondering, I wonder what I'm gonna do today. You know what you're doing because you are super organized.   Anne: Well, I think you have to be, right? And especially for us to be successful and to continue to grow in our businesses. I mean we have to be, because we've got a lot of things that we're doing. I mean, you're a mom of four, you're a voice talent, you're running a online -- is it an online course and is it live as well?   Tracy: No, it's just online.   Anne: That's a lot -- okay.   Tracy: It's online only. And I did that to save myself time. I really put a lot of thought into planning out the different modules and lessons and I tightly edited them so there's no wasted time because I don't like my time to be wasted. And I didn't wanna do that to anybody else. So it's about two hours of content overall. And I also do like a little introductory pump up video to kind of get people excited and motivated to do that module and that lesson. But yeah, it's totally, anybody can do it in their own time. It's on demand, and you can go revisit it anytime. It's all videos and there's some downloads too.   Anne: And I imagine 'cause creating curriculum, of course being an educator, right, for the longest time, I mean, it takes time to create good content. So for you to keep that up to date and keep that as a successful online course, congratulations. First of all, I know how much time that takes and how much effort it takes to get really good content and a really good course online that people can really get value out of. Now do you do any special coaching? I'm sure people are coming up to you and go, please, can you just help me with my profile, or do you do any type of individual coaching as well?   Tracy: Yeah. I'll do one-on-one and so I'll do like a private consulting session for an hour, and we'll go over, typically we'll start with the profile. And I always ask, Hey, please send me any questions in advance, the things you really wanna know because I'm not gonna waste your time and we're gonna go quickly during this hour.   Anne: Good.   Tracy: But I don't do a ton of that because the course is so comprehensive that most people get their questions answered through that.   Anne: Awesome.   Tracy: And I really do direct them towards the course because then it doesn't take up my time.   Anne: Right.   Tracy: But I love working with people as you know, it's so much more fun to get to know people individually during that hour. So I mean, I made a friend by the end of the hour and I love that.   Anne: Yeah. It is. The only thing is, is that as you keep trying to -- and for me, I'm, I'm very business minded, right? And for me, if I'm not growing then I'm stagnating and that's not necessarily where I wanna be. And so personally in my business, I'm always looking to grow in one way or another. And so every week, every month, every year, I'm looking at how can I grow my business? And so your personal time is probably the most precious time that you have. And so for example, I can't coach any more people. I cannot do any more one-on-ones because I'm one person, and I simply don't have the hours in the day to do everything that I wanna do. So it is important to be efficient. So let's talk a little bit more about the LinkedIn. You're using the free version of LinkedIn, right?   Tracy: Right. I've never done the premium.   Anne: Okay. You've never even tried it?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: It's just so robust, I don't need it.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: You do get limited on the number of connections, but what I've taught people is that you can put your searches in and then bookmark it. And that way you can just keep going back to that page, and it doesn't keep ding you for additional searches.   Anne: Oh, got it.   Tracy: So that's a big secret that a lot of people.   Anne: We can go home now. That's it. That's a . That's it. That's the nugget.   Tracy: But I mean, what you mentioned earlier about optimizing the SEO, so let's talk about that.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: That is one of the key things. And you're great at that on your website. I know that.   Anne: Oh, thank you.   Tracy: Well, you come from a tech --   Anne: It's lot of work. Yeah.   Tracy: -- background. Yes. Yes. And it's additional content.   Anne: But it's worthy.   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: It's definitely worth it to spend the time on the content because it brings people to your site. And I imagine people on LinkedIn searching for voiceover talent, like you want them to reach your profile.   Tracy: Right.   Anne: So yeah, let's talk about what do you do to enhance your SEO for that?   Tracy: Well, so there are three steps in what I teach with LinkedIn. And the first step is optimizing your profile. So that's where you must start. Do not start reaching out to people if you haven't completely shined up your profile and made it the best it can be. So obviously that would be the base step in step one. So step one involves just putting yourself forward authentically. One of the things that I really harp on is how there's so much inauthentic, spammy marketing, and you can stand out by being authentic.   I consider my life messy. People know that I have four kids and I don't hide it. I put all over my Instagram, I just posted one recently about going Christmas shopping with the kids, and it was just, I did not wanna go. It starts off with me making a face, you know, like I don't wanna do this. And I used like the circus theme because sometimes that's how I feel like I live in a circus. So I allow people to get a glimpse into my messiness. And I feel like that's actually been a boost to my brand, because I'm relatable and we all have messes. So why pretend to be perfect? So when you create your profile, though, you are your most businessy self on LinkedIn. So I'm not nearly as messy there. I will be all kinds of messy on Instagram and Facebook. But here on LinkedIn we're a little bit more put together. We wanna make sure that people know we can handle the work. We're not gonna flake, we're dependable. So key words that emphasize those kinds of business ethics are key.   And also speaking from a one-on-one perspective, don't make it sound like, Tracy Lindley is a full-time voice actor, that kind of thing. You wanna say I am. So you're speaking to the first person. I tell people to look at it as if you were at a networking event and you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, what do you do? So you've got a big picture back here where you're giving an overall view of who you are, 'cause they asked, and if they're visiting your profile, that's kind of like asking what do you do? Let me get to know you a bit. And then when you get down to the experience section about being a voice talent, then that's when you get into more of the nitty gritty like clients, agents, those kinds of things.   Anne: Do you put examples and demos on there as well in your profile?   Tracy: Oh yeah. That's key.   Anne: Media?   Tracy: I mean, why would you wanna hire somebody that doesn't have any examples at all of their work?   Anne: Right.   Tracy: And don't make 'em go looking on your website. That wastes their time. Everything that we do needs to be client-centered, and it wastes the client's time to take them to your website or some other source. You should put it right there on LinkedIn. Put all your best examples. And a lot of times people are starting out brand new. Like if you've coached someone and they've just created a demo, and they have no body of work, they can take that demo that you've created with them and turn it into a video and display that on LinkedIn.   Anne: Videos are effective.   Tracy: Yes. And you can't really do an MP3 on LinkedIn. You have to do some sort of video. So sometimes people do SoundCloud, but I don't find that very effective 'cause it's just a static picture. And I think even a very simple video is fine. Some people do make it look like all these clips of commercials, which is really cool, but it's also costly. And if people are bootstrapping their business at the beginning, it's really easy to create a very simple video with your picture and just a few things, contact information on the back. Contact information is huge because that's our call to action is contact me.   Anne: What about your feed on LinkedIn? Are you posting to the feed on LinkedIn? Are you creating content? Because I know a big thing, gosh, a couple years ago when I was looking back into it was creating content and posts like short blog posts in LinkedIn. Is that still, is that effective? Is that, what are your thoughts on that?   Tracy: You know, video's really taken over. Blogs are still fantastic and also they can link back to your website, which boosts your SEO, but really video is king right now, and those are the things that are gonna get the most engagement. But you can't just get on camera and talk about nothing. You have to give people something of value. And you have to to keep it short. So when I post videos, I try to keep 'em less than two minutes, 90 seconds if I can. You know, it just depends. I'll do it in one, two, no more than three takes. And if I can't get it in three takes, just forget it. I'll come back later. Because mm-hmm. I want it fresh, I want it off the cuff.   Anne: Yeah. I agree.   Tracy: I want it to be as authentic as possible.   Anne: Yeah, I agree. And so the big question is, and I know most of, a lot of students will, well what do I post? Or what do I talk about? Like what do you talk about? Do you talk about voiceover? I don't think the intent is to do a hard sell on hire me, I do voiceover. What are your thoughts on creative videos that would bring value?   Tracy: Well, I'd say touch on things that make us human, touch on things that make us a business person. So one of the best videos I ever did was talking about how I am extra, and at my kids's school I was doing the announcing for the volleyball game, and I was told after that, hey, you know, you don't need to commentate so much about the volleyball game, you know, just do the sponsors and say something at the end of the match. Okay. But I didn't, I just would say something after like every point. I think it did get a little annoying. I did learn from that, but my point was I just couldn't sit there with this microphone and not say things. So I just realized I am extra and I made a little video out of that and about rejoicing in being extra. And so --   Anne: I love that.   Tracy: Yes. So many people relate to that. And that kind of thing that brings us together as humans. it makes us who we are. And I was the kind of girl that went door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood and asking if I could rake your leaves and things. I've always been a go-getter and I know you are too, Anne. And when you're a go-getter in this industry, you can't just sit back and do the minimum.   Anne: Yeah. Agreed.   Tracy: That was my video.   Anne: Agreed. Well, I love that. So now outside of LinkedIn, right, and of course BOSSes out there, I totally encourage all of you just go take the course, just do it. LinkedIn is just one of the best resources for getting work that I can think of. I guess my last question before I ask you, the big question, which is I will get to that, is let's talk about templates or how do you reach out to somebody in a cold contact? I feel like cold contacting people is difficult. That I know. And so how do you wrangle that in reaching out and not being considered spammy? Is there a tip or two or three that you have in reaching out to people?   Tracy: Sure. My biggest tip is to look for anything that you can use to find common ground. So when people are just starting out using LinkedIn, one of the best ways to reach out is by geographic area. So you could reach out to folks in LA, I can reach out to folks in Kansas City, and that way we have that in common already and we know that. And that's an easy thing to put into the search terms when we're using the search features of LinkedIn is geographical area. So that's one thing. But another thing, I encourage people to look through their profile and find something that they can relate to. Maybe they mention a cat or a dog or kids, or I like to watch the Chiefs, whatever. Find something. If they've written any kind of personal about section, usually you can find something interesting there to comment about. But as far as templates, I am pro templates within reason, I do think that it's good -- if you're gonna kind of write similar things each time, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So I do encourage people to write templates, but personalize like the first sentence and always say that person's correctly spelled name.   Anne: Oh yeah. . Absolutely.   Tracy: Like I bet people spell your name A-N-N. And you're like, uh...   Anne: Yes. All the time. All the time. They do.   Tracy: And I always get, yes, T-R-A-C-E-Y is how people end up spelling my name. I'm like, there's no E. . We don't like that.   Anne: There's no E. Absolutely. Well, what wonderful advice. Now in addition to LinkedIn, what would be your best business tip for people just getting into the industry on how to establish their business or get work and be successful?   Tracy: I would say the best thing is to start local. Start with who you know. I think I'm hearing from your story that people who were your first clients were people you actually knew in your life, and they were in mind too. So when you are truly ready to hang out your open for business sign, which means you've got a great website, you've got a great professionally produced demo, you have enough training to where if someone says, I need this, you can give it to them-- your sound quality has to be top notch, you have to have a low sound floor, no buzzing, no echo, all that stuff, and you know how to use your equipment, including source connect. If you say that you have source connect -- okay. If you have all that stuff, then you are ready to start hanging out your sign and telling people on Facebook and Instagram and whatever that you're doing voiceover. And chances are there's someone in your life who needs voiceover, especially if you have a decent personal social network. And that's kind of how it happened for me was I was personally connected to someone that owned a marketing firm, and he was one of my first clients. My alma mater hired me to do a short documentary. There were some little IVR things that I did, and it just kind of snowballs.   Anne: Absolutely.   Tracy: Yeah. And then I felt confident. I'm like, okay, I have a little bit of work here that I can showcase. It may not be any brand names that are super sexy, but it's work, and it sounds good and it looks good, so let's put it out there. So that's what I started doing. It builds on each other.   Anne: It's amazing how important local can be in establishing relationships. Also, relationships that keep coming back as you nurture it. I have so many repeat clients that I've had for years because like you say, communication is key, and nurturing those relationships are key. And a lot of them started off locally. And I think that that is something people don't think of. And that also locally helps when you're advertising like where you are voicing from, like voicing from Southern California or Orange County, California or Los Angeles area. Even just putting those words on your website help for people to find you because most of the times when people are searching using Google, it's automatically got localization turned on. And so if they're searching for voice talent, it's gonna search locally first. And so you wanna be up at the top of that search. So, great advice, Tracy. I wanna thank you so very much for joining me today. Yay. My bucket list checked off.   Tracy: Oh, me too. This is so fun. And I'll see you at VO Atlanta in March.   Anne: I know, I'm very excited. How can people get in touch with you and where can they go to get that course again?   Tracy: Okay, so my website, if people wanna check out me or my work or whatever, that's tracylindley.com. And the course is @thelinkedinedge.com. Or if you wanna just look at the one for voice actors, it's thevoedge.com and it'll take you right there.   Anne: Perfect.   Tracy: And I'm happy to answer questions. Contact me on Instagram. My handle is @TracyLindleyVO, pretty much everywhere.   Anne: Awesome. Tracy, thank you so much again for joining me. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to understand about your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit and find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. Tracy, thank you again, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Tracy: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian.    Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today?    Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound.    Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or --   Anne: Yeah. (laughs).   Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there.   Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here.    Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me.    Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio.    So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it.    Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like?    Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology.    So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field.    So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional.    But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor.    Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio.   Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury.    Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go.    'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client?    Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.    Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing.    Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio.    But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone.    So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable.    It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian?    Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important.    But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one.    Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then.    Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast.    Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes --   Anne: To support the equipment, right?   Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer.    Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say --   Gillian: No, no, tell me.    Anne: Update. Update.    Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs)    Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that.    I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment.    Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world.    Anne: Right.    Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you.    Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right?    Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Which is sucky.    Anne: Exactly.    Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive.    Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time.    Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers.    Anne: That's a long time. Yeah.    Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice.    Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times.    So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use?    Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great.    Anne: Sure.    Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation --   Anne: Reflection.    Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that?    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little --   Anne: Panels.    Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them?    Anne: Does that go on a mic?    Gillian: It goes on a mic stand.    Anne: Yes, I have. I have.   Gillian: Have you seen I them?    Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion.    Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious.    Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me.    Gillian: Great.    Anne: A room in a room is great.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well.    Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is.    But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think?    Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right?    Gillian: The investment is forever.    Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs).    Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too.    Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.    Gillian: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn't reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you'd like it to be written, great! But if it isn't written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They're gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There are very few things in life that are black and white. The world is full of nuances, nuances that can be challenging when they come up in business. Anne & Lau dive into the emotions & decision making process that happens when you make a decision to protect the ethics of your business. Most people don't want to talk about ethics in business. They are uncomfortable with the topic and don't know how to approach it, but discussion is one of the only ways to bring awkward subjects into the light. No decision is without trade-offs. It usually means losing something, whether that's time, money or energy. When faced with a tough decision, ask yourself how this feels in your gut? Is it the right thing for you? For the future of your business? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers. Only decisions that feel right or wrong for you at this moment in time.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited today to bring back to the show Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey.   Anne: Yay. Hey Lau. Here we are. The BOSS Superpower series. I'm so excited.    Lau: Me too. I feel like it's been a long time since I saw you.    Anne: I know, right?    Lau: I just came back from vacation.    Anne: Well, and I, of course I'm working over here like a dog (laughs), and I need a vacation now. But I have to say I encountered something that was difficult for me and my business while you were having fun in the sun there. And I thought we could talk about it today. And it's all about ethics, and ethics in your business, and what you can do to get through a situation that is not easy to deal with, especially when it comes to your moral ethics in terms of will you work with a client. So I had a client. And they asked me for something that did not sit well with me, Lau. And it made me feel icky. (laughs).    Lau: Gotcha. Oh my gosh.    Anne: Yeah. And it was one of those things where the opportunity was great. There was gonna be opportunities for more work, and this was a very well-known brand. And I really struggled, and it was one of those things, and I thought, well, is it worth it, right, to align myself with this brand when I'm kind of feeling icky about what they're asking me to do, because it could mean more work if I maybe choose not to work with this client? Will I be seen as somebody that's not easy to work with or difficult to work with and will they tell other people? And so it just became, ugh, such a difficult decision, Lau. And I know that in our businesses, I like to think that everything's easy, and all the clients are easy and I get to choose what clients I wanna work with.    But every once in a while, a client can also kind of flip on you (laughs). So typically I think I'm a good judge of character, and I can say this is gonna be a great work relationship, and I'm gonna be able to work with this client. But sometimes those clients, maybe the company changes hands or you're working with somebody else from the company, or the rules change or the policy change or whatever it is. Or the script changes. This actually didn't really have to do with the script, Lau, but I also think this applies to any potential job that talent have the opportunity to voice that maybe they don't agree with the copy, with the script.    Lau: Right. I'm telling you, as long as I've been alive on this earth, I can tell you that the longer you're in business, the more often you're going to experience this kind of thing. And, and it is to be expected. And as uncomfortable as it is, and it is really uncomfortable, and I, you know, I'm trying to put on my empathy face right now, I also have that feeling that yeah, it's to be anticipated, it's to be expected. And I always like to think of it as like a magic carpet ride. You've got this beautiful carpet, you created it, you're floating, you're flying, you're moving in the direction you wanna be moving in. You're going fast, you're high.    Anne: I was flying high, Lau.   Lau: Flying high. You feel really secure. You got your seatbelt on. Then all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you and then you fall. And you feel like you're falling, you feel like your credibility's falling, your hopes are falling. The perception of your audience is falling. You feel like you're losing something. And it's scary 'cause you don't know how it's gonna land. You don't know, am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna get out the other way and get up and run? And you always do. You always do. You're most resilient person I know. Like you're gonna get up and run after it. But to go through it is really like, what would you call it? Like the milestone of moving through life and moving through your business and saying when difficult things happen, that's when I build my character. That's really how I react to that and how I stand my ground, and how I build my character is really, I'd like to say what it's all about at the end of the day. And I think you're amazing in the choices that you're making. And so you're making choices about this, right?    Anne: Yeah. Oh yeah.    Lau: The path, which way you went.    Anne: I have to say I made the tough choice, and I chose not to work with the client. And after that, Lau, I had days, I had days where I was second guessing that decision, thinking what would be the ramifications and how would it affect my business, in all aspects. Because I thought, well, this might become something that other clients will know 'causethis client knew a lot of other potential clients that I've worked with. And so it became a thing where I had to sit back in a quiet space and just ask myself how does my gut feel? And I, I know we've talked about this is I, I like to run my business by my gut, and I usually listen to my gut, 'cause for me it's usually the right thing. But I'll tell you, I was back and forth with this and once I made my decision, then I second guessed myself again for days.    I mean there was no way, once I had made the decision to cut the relationship; I mean, I couldn't really go back. And so then I just sat there and worried and I thought, oh no. And again, you think that being in business all these years, maybe it would be easier. Or I would be able to get through it quicker. But I think maybe sharing my experience with the BOSSes out there, I can at least share my experience and, and talk to people about here, it happened to me. This is how I felt. Like how did I feel? I felt like once I was given the opportunity, and it was presented with a job, I was initially like taken aback and was so surprised. And then I thought, oh, that doesn't seem right. (laughs) That just doesn't seem right. And so I asked a couple of close friends and colleagues of mine what they thought if maybe I was misreading something. ‘Cause I wanted to kind of have another set of eyes on it.    And of course this was with people that I trusted and of course I wouldn't wanna shout this on social media or on the rooftops because again, it was a private connection between me and my client. And so I kind of got other people's first initial reactions, which were similar to mine from a lot of people that I spoke to. I then sat with it for a while, and I couldn't get it outta my brain. It was one of those things that, until I said something, we were gonna be working together. It was just gonna be a wonderful thing and a great relationship that was gonna continue on, and I was just gonna continue to work with this client, and things were gonna be lovely, and my business was gonna be accelerated by this. But I kept thinking and feeling in the back of my brain and in my heart that something just didn't sit well.    And so then I made that tough decision to cut ties with the client, and then there's the ramifications of the back and forth because I cut the ties with the client through an official email. Right? I had to do that. I would've liked to have actually maybe had some, I don't know, some Zoom time or maybe a phone call. But I had to cut the ties via email. And that was tough. I mean, because trying to go back and forth on something that it's a little more than a, than a negotiation on a job, it's tough to do through email, through text or email. And I was hoping that I would have an opportunity to further, I don't know, either talk to the client and maybe -- I didn't burn any bridges. I didn't wanna burn any bridges. And that was important. So I think that when that happens, BOSSes, you have to really consider, I don't wanna burn bridges. That's just kind of who I am. Although you may not be able to do it without burning a bridge. What are your thoughts, Lau, with all of your years and and experience in the businesses that you've built? It's happened to you.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Yes. That's the thing. And you and I talk about this all the time, Anne, you can't get through life completely unscathed, as much as we would like to because we're positive minded people. We wanna think the best of our connections. We wanna give the best, we have the best intentions. You're dealing with human communication. You're dealing with behaviors of human beings that have this whole frame of reference that has nothing to do with you. They're coming to the table with a whole life, a whole mindset, a whole viewpoint that has nothing to do with you.    So in my mind that slides into every single exchange that happens, their ethics, their behavior, their morality, their persona. That kind of goes into the mix. And we have to understand that, that when we're doing the recipe, it's not always gonna taste good. The cake's not always gonna come out the way we think it's gonna come out. And that's okay. So I think as women, we make a couple mistakes. One is we do take the brunt, we take the emotional brunt of having to make important decisions or what we perceive to be important decisions and stand that ground and feel uncomfortable with that, and take on the other's trauma, the other's mistakes, the other's whatever. We take that on and we emotionalize that. And I think that's a big issue for us as women because we're high pathos. We're very visceral beings. That's what makes us good at our jobs. But it also is a double-edged sword because that's what makes us take on a lot of things that are not our problem. They're just not our problem.    So being able to objectify it just enough, sort of like an audition. So for those of you who are listening in who audition for a living, right, you have to care about it. You have to emotionalize it enough. You have to connect to it so it's authentic. But then when it's done, you have to walk away from it, and you have to disconnect, and you have to not make it the most important thing in your world. And that's the skill that you have, that all successful people have to cultivate is not saying, oh, I don't want things to go wrong. I don't want things to happen where the rug is pulled out from under me. No. But saying --   Anne: I don't wanna disrupt things. I don't wanna disrupt things.    Lau: Yes. It's like, are you a gentle disruptor? Are you an eloquent disruptor? Are you an intelligent disruptor? But the disruption will happen. It's just the nature of dealing with human beings, and it's the nature of business. Business is just difficult (laughs) on so many levels. It's tough. It's not easy. And I think if we could learn to objectify enough and walk away, that would be really important to do. Another thing we do too is we exaggerate situations. I noticed this in myself for many years, 'cause I was an actor. I was a professional actor for many years. And I would say, am I a drama queen? I mean, am I, what is wrong with me? Oh ah, I'm an artist. I see things in a certain way, typically emotionally first. And then it becomes larger and larger and larger and larger until it's like massive.    But to the outside world, they don't see it that way. To them, it's small, it's simple, it's almost non-existent at times. So I found that for me as a technique to save myself and sort of objectify and say, I think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think I'm exaggerating this into something really huge when I don't think it's viable as a huge thing. I think it's just my perception in the moment of the massiveness of it. The truth is we're not a golden calf. We can be replaced; they can move on. And then sometimes it's almost as if it never happened.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned the over dramatization and, and that I think in terms of feeling the way that I was feeling, right? Oh my gosh, is this going to bring down my business? What are people going to think of me? What if other people find out what happened, and that kind of thing. And I, and you're right, I think it became like for me, emotionally bigger than it should have because I beat myself up over it for a good few days and spent a lot of energy thinking about what if, what if, what if, or oh my gosh, and being stressed out about it that I feel that I probably wasted a lot of energy on that. And I think at that point, when you're going through something like that, having the support of colleagues and friends that can remind you of things like, hey look, this is okay. Do what you feel is right. We'll support you no matter what -- I think that's so important to help you through the tough times for that.    And also I think being able to talk about it with a trusted colleague is going to be very, very helpful. And just to remember those things. I mean that's something you said to me, look, why is it that you feel bad for something that has nothing to do with you? And you're right, to the outside world, like it's insignificant, right? And a lot of times we build those issues up in our brain to be larger than life, when in fact nobody's really necessarily even thinking about them or concerned about them. But for me, in my business, I was in such a dilemma. And so I think that for me, after I went through the days of second guessing myself, stress, thinking about what if, what if, what if, I now have come out the other side, and I am proud that I stood my ground and did what I believed in, and I feel stronger for the experience. And again, this is not the first time it's happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to you as well multiple times in your business. It's happened to me before and I've come out the other side fine. And I should remind myself of those things. But I think every situation is different. And in the moment, it may seem like it's, oh my gosh, it's the worst thing in the world that could happen.    Lau: It's the worst thing in the world.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And also just for you to note, and I love doing this as a coach but also as a person in the world -- I love passing on what someone says about someone else that they would never know that could be like super amazing and life changing. So I passed on the generality of the situation to a dear female coach and family member of mine of many, many years, just generally speaking. And you know what she said about you, Anne, and you, you don't know her at all. She's not in the industry. She's actually a therapist. Not my therapist. But she's a therapist in the world and we have a lot of crossovers 'cause we're both coaches; she's a life coach. And she said, isn't it nice to know, Lau, that you're not only working with someone of that caliber, but there are people still left in the world that character and morality really means something to them?   Anne: Wow.    Lau: And are willing to stand their ground for it? And I thought, oh, it's so uncomfortable and upsetting to Anne, but it's so amazing. And like, I don't know what the word is, but it's so like revolutionary to the people who witness it around you, who say — it's almost like you can take a breath and say, wow, there are people in our industry that feel something real about injustice when it happens and actually do something about it, but do something in a very professional, kind, diplomatic, and thoughtful way, not a hostile, angry, violent way. Oh, I love that civility. That level of civility and diplomacy I think is to really be rewarded. And again, you don't know it, and you don't feel it in the situation, and you feel quite oppositional to that. But those around you, your circle that circles you, that witnesses that is really inspired and in awe of that. It sort of gives other people courage. It gives other people strength to say, yeah, if something comes at me, and my rug gets pulled out from under me, people like Anne, people like — are doing things to help build themselves up without getting destroyed by it. I can do that too.    Anne: Well, I appreciate you telling me that. Thank you so much. And now I feel even better about my decision and I appreciate you saying that to me. And I think it was very important and worth mentioning again, when you are handling something like this and taking a stand, especially when it's in regards to your business -- and this could just be me. I'm always like trying to be the professional, always trying to not burn my bridges. Because again, you never know where your relationship will go, how the client will react, maybe something wonderful can happen out of it. So I never choose to burn my bridges. And so I did break ties with the client as professionally and as diplomatically as I could and thank them for the opportunity to work with them and appreciated everything that we had worked on together. And yeah, I think that's an important thing to consider when you are faced with ethical decisions.    And again, this doesn't just have to be about scripts, because I know we've spoken about that before. I mean it could be like, well, what if you get a script and you have to voice something that you don't believe in? I'm strong on that one. I'm like, I don't have to voice that. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. But when it came to my business and working with a client that I thought maybe didn't align to the same goals as I did and making that tough decision, I think that the ethics, it's all around. We have to address ethics all around in our business. Not just on what script we voice. And again, BOSSes out there, I entirely encourage people that if you don't feel comfortable voicing a script, you can take that stand and turn that down.    Lau: Or even you are not comfortable working with someone. Like you don't have to justify it. It's okay. You don't have to tell everyone. But you can certainly internalize and say, why am I feeling uncomfortable? I just had this recently with a new partnership with an agent out in LA who was interviewing one of our people and said, you know, I have to be honest with you, I wasn't comfortable with him. This was on Zoom; this wasn't — I wasn't comfortable. I just didn't, I didn't like his personality. He made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't feel like I would be able to do dealings with him, and I didn't offer him a contract. And I said, well good for you. I didn't take any offense to that at all. I said if I were in your position, I probably would do the same. Because you wanna be able to have that free flow of ideas and conversation in that somewhat level of trust that you're on the same page, you're tracking kind of thing.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. That you align.   Lau: You're tracking. I'm gonna make a prediction for everyone in the audience. Here's my prediction. My prediction is this client, Anne, is gonna come back to you for future things, whatever that is. Whether it's a recording job or whether it's uh, something else. And you're gonna have another decision to make. And that is, do I want to work with them? Because somehow how we feel like, oh, the coffin shut, the nails are in. And that's often not the case because guess what? The time goes by. They realize who their friends are, they realize who they can trust. They realize and they say, you know, that wasn't a comfortable thing that happened, but a year has gone by. Two years have gone by. I miss her. Where is she? Let me got in contact with her again. Don't be surprised if it's not the end of the relationship.    Anne: Yeah. Very interesting. Hmm. Wow. Well, it certainly was something that threw me for a loop this past week, and I'm glad I'm out the other side. But I did wanna share my experiences 'cause I thought maybe if I can help anybody — and it's funny because I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to showcase my business as being together. And every time, Lau, you and I get together on this show, I'm always going, oh my God, Lau. I've sabotaged myself. I'm feeling insecure, but I'm sharing because I'm hoping it will help people that they're not alone. This happens even if you've been in the industry for a long time, and it looks to everybody like -- I mean I like to think that I have it together, but ultimately the experiences that I go through have helped me to build my character, build my business stronger and hopefully continue to do that. I think the last thing I want, because I put so much of myself into it, is for my business to not survive something like a client relationship that I have decided not to pursue any further.    Lau: I also think too, unless you run the kind of business where you're really relying on one or two or three clients to keep you alive -- I think you're so diversified and you working with so many people, I don't think that's actually possible when you have so many irons in the fire. But I think it's that, again, it's that sort of blown out of proportion perception, that six months down the line or a year when we are talking, you'll be like, how did I take that so hard? Or why was that so important to me?    Anne: Why was that so hard for me? Yeah.   Lau: Why did I go through that? I did the right thing. But why did I, like we, we have a Yiddish word called grizsha. Grizsha. It means to sit for a week and just worry and up, grizsha and upset. Make friction for yourself because you're going through the process of it. It's like grief. It's a loss. You're going through a loss.    Anne: Yeah, that's exactly right. That it was a loss. And I always think, well, the reason why I went into business for myself is so that I didn't have to go through the stresses that I went through when I was working for people. Right? When I was working in the corporate world. And I was like, I'm not gonna be beaten by the man. And literally I'm like, this is what I love about working for myself is that I get to choose. Right? I get to choose who I work with. I get to choose the projects. And again, I think that is such a wonderful blessing, and it's such a wonderful thing to be able to build a business for yourself. ‘Cause you do have the options to make all these choices.    And I think that if you do end up going through an ethical dilemma, I think it's good for the soul, even though it wasn't pleasant going through it. And I second guessed myself and stressed out, and -- but I do think that it is one of the reasons that I think being employed or self-employed and having your own business is such an advantage. I mean, we have those choices in front of us to decide upon who we work with. And again, I don't think you get to that point in your business until you're confident and you have -- for me, it always comes back to, and this is a sad thing to say, but it's a reality is, if you have the financial stability in your business to be able to really make those decisions. And I am grateful, and I'm also proud of the fact that I've built my business to the point where I'm okay, I can say no to a client. And I think any BOSS out there that has been able to do that, wow. I mean how wonderful is that? It's just an amazing thing and you should all be so proud that you are able to make those decisions and able to decide whether or not you want to work with a client or not. That's a luxury.    Lau: It's a huge luxury. And you have to have that awareness of not being such a people pleaser, such a yes person that you're doing that at the demise of you, your business, your model, your time, whatever. Like that's an ethical dilemma for a lot of people. I went through it for many years 'cause I'm a natural-born people pleaser.   Anne: Yeah, me too.    Lau: I was brought up that way actually. And I love having that quality still. A lot of people call me Mama Lau, 'causeit has like sort of caring --   Anne: Oh yeah. That's great.   Lau: — essence to it. But at the same token, you have to be very careful because there are things you must say no to. There are things you must decline, you must whatever. And those are the hard moments, whether they're ethically driven or financially driven or whatever, that you just know in your heart, I really shouldn't be doing this. Or I really don't wanna do this or what — and you're still saying yes, that's your own ethical dilemma. That's your own saying, what is my value system? What are my principles? What do I stand for? And sometimes there's nothing wrong on the other side. It's just you shouldn't be doing it for whatever reason. You know what I mean? So I think you're awakening us all to really having a good hard heart to heart talk with ourselves and saying, yeah, what do we believe in? What do we wanna be doing? What do we wanna spend our time with? When is it okay to say no? And just set that up. Just be okay with that. Don't kill yourself because you're saying no for whatever reason.    Anne: Yeah. Good talk. Thank you, Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: Mama Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: I love Mama Lau. (both laugh) That's pretty awesome. Oh man, great discussion. Thank you so much as always. Words of wisdom, golden nuggets from Mama Lau (laughs). BOSSes out there, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ever wanted to know what it takes to create a TV pilot? In this special episode, Anne is joined by Scott & Miranda Parkin to discuss Comet Casino. Comet Casino is a story centered around found family. It talks about those relationships & friendships that grow so near and dear that they feel like family. Scott & Miranda voice two of the characters, but were heavily involved in the creation of the show. From planning out the story to animating, Miranda was in charge and excited about this mid-century modern tale. After two year, the pilot episode is ready & shipped out to all the right people. So what's next for the duo? There may be more planning, creating, and meeting taking in their future…but you have to listen up to hear the whole story.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and pumped to have the Comet Casino team here with us, special guests Scott and Miranda Parkin. You guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yay!   Scott: Thank you so much for having me. You were an early supporter of this. (inaudible) merch on your show, you donated money, and now we're in the pitch phase. So we really owe a great debt of gratitude to the VO BOSS.   Miranda: Yeah, seriously.    Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's not hard to support and love what you guys are doing. So for those BOSSes out there who may not be familiar with the famous Comet Casino team, I thought we would start with a little bit of an introduction of each of you so that the BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with Scott,‘cause he's older. (laughs) So Scott, I mean actor, amazing improv instructor, voice actor, I mean everything. Tell us how you got started in the industry and where it's going (laughs) and your life.    Miranda: And your social security number.    Anne: Yes.    Scott: No, that's horrible. That's horrible advice.  I'm from Sacramento, California, and I started in radio when I was in college. I interned at KCAP, the home of rock. When I was around 20, 18, 19 in that sort of range, I was able to weasel my way onto the air with a guy named Kevin Anderson. He got fired, but he made a tape of the time we were together, sent it to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had us come out for an audition. They asked me if I'd ever been to Oklahoma. And at the time I said, uh, the furthest east I've been is the Nevada side of Heavenly Valley, dude. And that is literally how we all spoke in Northern California. You were more like this, like, are you gonna put change on your car before you go to Tahoe?    Went out there to Oklahoma and did that. And then I got fired again. Came back to Sacramento, got a gig in Dallas, was there for 11 years, got married, got — moved to Los Angeles in, I wanna say ‘98. Had a kid in 2000, got divorced in 2003, done voiceover and writing for television and acting, and I always say you gotta hit it from every angle possible, so I'll do most of the stuff that they'll pay creative wise. So Miranda's been raised on TV sets and in voiceover lobbies and all that. And she started in the business when she was about five.    Miranda: Pretty crazy.    Anne: So, yeah. So Miranda, let's talk about that because you did grow up in the business. Yeah. I'm so excited again to actually see you and talk with you. And so tell us how you kind of got started, and was this something that, because you were around it for all the time when you were small, is it something that you loved right away, or did you kind of grow into it?    Miranda: Well, I mean, I feel like I loved it first because I was like, oh, I just really love reading. Like I love reading out loud. Like that very much fun.    Scott: Nerd!   Miranda: Shut up.    Anne: That was me too. That was me too.    Scott: Yeah.    Miranda: I liked reading out loud. So when they were like, “hey, do you wanna read this thing out loud,” a little five year old? And I was like, yeah, of course I wanna read that thing out loud. So I did. And then I was like, oh, oh, they like it when I do that. That's cool. I like that. You know, I was five, so I didn't really know, but it just made me feel happy, you know? Like I've always loved reading out loud. And then I got paid to talk about SeaWorld, and I'm like, I love animals and I love talking about whales, like of course I, I'm gonna do that.    Anne: Was this when you were five or a little bit later on?    Miranda: A little bit later on because I started when I was five, and then it was kind of went until eight or nine I think. I think nine was when I, I got the --    Scott: When the hammer got dropped.    Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I got the job of, uh, Lucy in a direct to DVD Peanuts movie. And my mom was like, no, you can't do that. So I was like, oh, alright. I really like reading out loud. I really like the Peanuts.    Scott: But her dad was a voiceover actor, and anything that had something to do with me was --   Anne: Ah.   Scott: Yeah.   Anne: Okay. So there's the six degrees here I think because you said Lucy, right? You read for the —    Miranda: Right.   Anne: Okay. So my maiden name is Lucy. Okay?   Scott: Excellent. Is that true?    Anne: Yes, it's very true. It's very, because people called me Miss Lucy when I was a teacher, and then they would sing, Miss Lucy had a steamboat. The steamboat had a bell. Exactly.    Scott: I forgot you were a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. I have I have so many teachers throughout our family.    Anne: Well, so that's number one. And number two is that when I was young, when I was about six, when I was in kindergarten, I love to read out loud as well. And here's where my claim to fame, my creative claim to fame is that I wrote books. I wrote books about Nibbles the Rabbit. And as a kindergartner, I read them to the first graders. So that's my claim to fame. I mean, I --   Miranda: Kind of a power move.    Anne: I mean, so Miranda, if I could only be half as good of, and I illustrated and wrote, and you know what I mean? Which is, that's incredible.    Miranda: That's, that's amazing.    Anne: You do everything. And so I just feel like the apple doesn't far fall from the tree there, I think; the writer, artist, voice actor, actor.   Scott: I can't draw a stick figure without uh, without help. So.   Miranda: That's true. He can draw a palm tree and a lightning bolt.    Anne: There you go. Very good.    Scott: And I can draw an oak tree too though.    Miranda: And an oak tree. Oak tree. Sorry, forgot about that. One of the three.    Scott: Yeah.   Anne: I got good at drawing a rabbit as a kindergarten. But other than that --    Miranda: Nibbles the rabbit.    Anne: — that's kind of where it stopped. Although I always was in awe of people who could draw. And so I want to actually talk about Comet Casino because that's really why I wanted to bring you here so that we can talk about the whole process. Because BOSSes out there, if you're listening, the whole concept of Comet Casino is BOSS from start to as it evolves. Because you have encompassed all areas of the creative arts, all areas of funding, of marketing, of starting something and seeing it grow and seeing it evolve. So I love the evolution of Comet Casino. So before we do that, let me show the BOSSes a little preview of what we have here. So let's do this first.    Scott: Can we set it up real quick?    Anne: Yeah. Let, we're gonna set it up right now.    Scott: This is not a trailer. There's no voiceover or anything like that. This is the first 90 seconds of the pilot, and the shuttle attendant is the lovely great Delisle Griffin. And we love it. And so you get an idea of where our story takes place, who are the principals, and what's going on in the first 90 seconds. The whole thing, the whole pilot presentation is just over 10 minutes. There you go.    Miranda: Yeah, there we go.    Anne: All right. We're gonna give you guys the first 90 seconds. All right. Here we go.    >> Attention passengers. We will be landing shortly on Luparif Omari, please return to your seats. If you've morphed during the flight, please regenerate and buckle up. Okay? And remember, as long as you look like you're gambling, they gotta keep bringing you drinks. Good luck.    >> Luparif Omari. Everybody knows it as the loop. Number one adult playground in the galaxy and the armpit of the fucking universe. Everyone is thrilled when they get here and broken, disillusioned when they leave. That's just after a weekend. I spent the first 18 years of my life here. On the loop, after high school, you pretty much have three choices: bartending school, dealer school or alcoholic gambler. I wanted something more. So I went to law school on the nearest planet. After graduation I took a really good job as a defense attorney. It's difficult and none of it comes easy, but okay, it's somewhere else, and that's all that matters.    So what am I doing back here? My dad, owner of the formerly luxurious Comet Casino passed away. How? Uh, he just stopped breathing while a guy was choking him to death, which on the loop is considered natural causes. The loop is 100 miles of casinos, clubs, and general debauchery crammed into a thin band of oxygen. Everything else is toxic. My dad used to drop off associates in the desert when it was time for them to die of natural causes.    >> Hurry. Hurry, everyone.    Anne: Haha, awesome. I love it. And can I tell you that honestly, when I first heard it, I love the beginning, right, with the introduction. But Miranda, when you start telling the story, I teach like storytelling to students for years. And you have such a beautiful, wonderful presentation of storytelling in that, like it is so damn impressive.    Miranda: Hey, I used to love reading stories out loud. Now I do it all the time.    Anne: If Scott knows me, I don't say that lightly. I love, love the performance.    Scott: That's not — this whole thing, this has been two years in the making, and we directed all these legends who are friends of ours and have always supported Miranda. And if Miranda wasn't able to hold their own with these legends, it doesn't work. All of what we've done, it just doesn't work. So.   Miranda: That was one thing that I got scared about. Like I know literally like after we like got all these people to do it, and they were like, all right, now it's time to record your part. And I'm like, oh, I have to actually, I have to go up against these — oh my God. Not, not go up against, but like work with, like be in the same cartoon as, and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a dream come true regardless of where this thing goes.    Scott: Yes. And frightening as hell. And same for me. ‘Cause Miranda actually does video games and animation. I don't do so much of either of those. So after asking these people and then having to, you know, what was really cool was that we recorded our parts at SoundBox LA with Tim Friedlander. So first Miranda and Tim directed me, and then we switched, and Tim and I directed Miranda. So that was really, it was really cool. And he's been so supportive and known Miranda for a very long time. So it was, it was just really cool to do our parts at Tim's with Tim directing.    Miranda: Yeah. ‘Cause he's such a good friend and such a great dude. And he supported it all the way through. It just seemed like a natural fit.    Anne: So let's talk about, how did it all start?    Miranda: Ooh, ooh, ooh. I've got this one.    Anne: Okay.    Scott: Keep it tight and bright.    Miranda: So essentially it started as an FBI agent gets teleported into space and works off her debt at a space casino. So that was like our initial idea. And I wanted to do something    Scott: That was all Miranda's --   Miranda: Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well the FBI thing is kind of silly, stupid. Let's just go with a mother-daughter story about a girl that actually lives in the casino and went to the casino and like lived at the casino, and her mom was the boss and she had to come back. And then we were just like, okay, let's cut the mom. Because I don't know how to tell a mother daughter story. I know how to tell a father-daughter story. So let's make a father-daughter story about a dysfunctional --   Scott: Well Miranda, you have to be honest, Ed Jager, our head writer and 23 year veteran television writer came in and said, I'm killing the mom. There's no story there. It's a father-daughter story. It's all about the daughter. Going away. Wanting to get the hell outta home, and then having to come back and then finding out that, ah, you know what? I hate this place, but I work here. It works. I have a connection here, and I'm really good at all the jobs I'm doing. It's the Joan Didian. You can't go home but you, maybe you can kind of thing.  Does that make sense?    Miranda: See the thing is like at the beginning of it, it morphed and switched. But I always wanted to make it a space casino. Always, always, always.    Anne: But then, let me backtrack here. So you're telling me the beginnings of the story, but what's the beginnings of the idea, Miranda? Was it something that you said, I wanna create? So not many people in this industry, and I know BOSSes out there, this is the whole enchilada, this is the writing, the artistry, the production, the casting. So did you just one day say, I wanna make a show like (laughs)?    Scott: We pitch ideas back and forth and have written a bunch of stuff, but Miranda always said that whenever they go animated shows, they have an episode at a casino. But I forget how you said it, M, I'm sorry.    Miranda: So like in a lot of sci-fi media, there's always like a one-off episode with a casino. Like in Cowboy Bebop, there's a one-off episode with a space casino. In Star Wars, they go to a space casino in one of the newest Star Wars movies. In like Rick and Morty, they go to a Dave and Busters type thing called Blips and Shits. And I'm just like, why don't you stay there? There's so much potential. You have beings from all over the galaxy. You know, you have people that go to Vegas for conventions. You've got people that go to Vegas in sororities. You have gangsters and mobsters and bachelor parties    Anne: I love it.   Scott: Corporate convention. Always bringing different people. And if you put it out in space, 200 years in the future, the hell knows what --   Anne: Right. So many stories. I mean, I think so many stories can evolve from that. So yeah, there's longevity there. Yeah.    Scott: The other thing we really liked was the found family because Miranda's been, was at my house from age 16 on solo and moved out two years ago. So big on found family. At my house growing up there was always an extra person. Somebody that just got divorced or some teenager had been kicked out of their house. So we're big on found family. A found family is such a lovely story. You can take in so many different directions, and in Miranda's situation, it's right here, found family.   Miranda: But also it's relatable to everyone. Whether you have a good relationship with your parents or not, you always have friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. I know it's cheesy, but everyone can relate to it. Everyone has a friend that you feel like you're a sibling.    Anne: So then you had this idea that you wanted to do this. The two of you were bouncing ideas and then you said, yes, this sounds amazing. Let's get a writer. Like what happened after that? Just get a writer involved.    Scott: Like I said, we've had multiple ideas, and I think they're very solid ideas, but Miranda is a voracious performer and artist. They like to keep going and going and going. So if we didn't get something with legs on it early, it got set aside and fan art and something else, or voiceover or her life just got in. But this was much more substantial. And it has something that Miranda really likes is retro futurism and 50's --    Miranda: Like mid-century modern atomic age type stuff, Jetsons style.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: They really enjoyed drawing. So it was very inspirational. And then I showed it to my buddy Ed. We had made a little video presentation and it's 1000 degrees different than that, than the thing that we first made. But he goes, this is great. We showed it to Swampy Marsh, the creator of Phineas and Ferb, who's sort of Miranda's mentor and my good friend. And then we all got together with a couple of the writers from Gary Unmarried, that show my buddy Ed wrote about my life that was on CBS, and other writers that I'd worked with on their pilots. And we all got a room and sort of hammered out a thing.    And then the found family thing, or how each of the casino employees used to work at the casino as a crooner or a fighter or something like that. And now the old man me has hired him to work on the, on the thing because they're no longer viable as performers. So we had that, and then Ed just took it off and built this great daughter goes away and comes back to save the found family sort of thing.    Miranda: And it was so well done and well-written. And we pitched on jokes, and I would be like, oh, this character probably wouldn't say that, or this and that. But most of it was Ed really. He just brought this huge heart to it.    Scott: Ed started on Roseanne and worked on Darma and Greg and so many great shows. And I was a joke guy, so you know, we were able to make the jokes crackle, and then you just crank it, crank it down, crank it down until it's tight. And then we hired Swampy Marsh and Bernie Patterson at Surfer Jack to do the staging animatics. So each time they go through, it's single line, really rudimentary, but it gives you a good idea of where everyone's going and what it will look like. I think they did four passes there. They hired Miranda to work on small projects. So Miranda got to work on her own pilot there.    And then I think after we had our thank you party last summer at Tim's, Miranda said, I want it all to be -- I have so many ideas. I want more characters, I want some different backgrounds. This would be funnier if a chop from above. And so Miranda said, I wanna do all of this. So she redid everything. And so every frame you see in the thing is her character's shirt background, a couple backgrounds. We hired her roommate Lauren to do, really wonderful stuff. But almost all of it is Miranda's vision. So there you go. And then laid in all the sound. Tim West at Rebel Alliances donated hours and hours and hours of time. So the sound design is really good. Adam Gutman, Miranda, you can talk about.    Miranda: Yeah. He's like a, he's a Disney composer. He does like all the music for these Star Wars land rides, and Amphibia, and he's worked on Greatest Showman and all these things. And I did a lot of work with him during the lockdown, and he had this like musical project, and I was able to do some animatics for him. And then after that, you know, we kept in contact and then he was like, if you don't let me do the music for Comet Casino, I will be very sad if you don't let me just do it. You know. And I was like --   Scott: Of course, of course.   Miranda: He had all these like great kind of almost hotel lobby tracks from like a Star Wars thing that he worked on. And he's just like, I can tweak this and do this. I'm like, that is so cool. It was crazy.    Anne: So a few things that I wanna point out to the BOSSes out there, because again, I think a lot of people that listen to the VO BOSS podcast they're thinking very much in just voiceover. And again, the scope of this project is so amazing, and I'm hearing a couple of things that just keep coming back to me. Number one is having a great network, right? And having a wonderful team to help put this together. And so I think that networking is such an important thing to have a successful --   Scott: Without, without it, this wouldn't exist.    Anne: Yeah.    Scott: I called in and asked every favor I had to get us at this point.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: Listen, I don't constantly work for free, but I work with friends and things I like mm-hmm and everyone liked all these people that are in this, Maurice Lamar, Billy West, Tara Strong, Luray, Newman, Mindy Sterling — all of them have known Miranda since about three years old because I was asked to be divorced when Miranda was three. So I had her with me, and they all sort of watched her grow up and watched her. So when I said, hey you guys, this is what we're doing, would you be willing? And they all said the same, some version of yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tara Strong's like, just tell me where to talk. They didn't owe me anything, but I, we asked favors.    Miranda: And one thing that I was so happy about is they've always been, ‘cause we're, you know, a lot of us are at the same agency. So like from being a kid, like not not a kid, but like, you know, in my 20s, early, early teenage years, they were always like, if you make something, if you make something, you know, put me in it. Please. So, you know, and then we finally followed through with an idea, and now it was like, I can do that. I can ask these people and they'll say yes. And that's just a such a great feeling to have, to have such a great support network of all these incredible talented people. I'm really honored.    Scott: And Miranda designed each of the characters for each of those actors. Aunt Maisie was designed for Tara Strong. Gary Anthony Williams is Hendrix. So that's kind of a cool thing too. But you definitely have to be willing to work with -- I mean I've worked on so many pilots that got shot and didn't get to air. I don't get any money from that. I just get the experience providing and supporting. So when I have something, I call those guys and they're like, yeah, let's get together and write this.    Anne: So then yet another thing that I wanna talk about that I think is so important in the development of this is you're still pursuing this, you're still getting funding for this. And so --   Scott: We've just started this phase.    Anne: Right.   Scott: We, it's taken two years to get up to that.   Anne: Yeah. And I think that there's something to be said for the level of commitment obviously, that you have to have for this. I mean in my brain, there's no way that it can't not be successful for you guys. I mean that's the way I feel. I don't know.    Miranda: I honestly think it's successful already. I am just, I am happy to be involved with these incredible people. I'm happy to have this part of my portfolio, and I'm ready to get this, this art in front of people who work in amazing studios. Like all these studio people are going to be seeing my art. So that was like the goal from early on was to get my art in front of studios, and whether it gets made or not, it's just a step in the right direction regardless.    Anne: I love that.    Scott: The beginning premise was to get experience at storyboarding character design and backgrounds. So when we hired Surfer Jack, the idea was that Miranda would sit on Bernie's shoulder and watch him staging storyboard. But then Swampy screwed that up by hiring Miranda before they even started on the pilot to be head of small projects there. So the idea was to get all of her stuff in front of as many people as possible. And because of Ed -- his theatrical representation is APA — they saw that 90-second trailer and called us in for a strategy meeting. So now we're actually represented by APA.    Anne: Love it. That's huge.   Scott: They're not only showbiz adjacent, but they represent people like 50 Cent, Mark Ruffalo, you know, that kinda people. So now, next week the pilot goes out to every animation studio and every streaming service, full support of the head of animation at APA. And they'll bug them to watch it and then hopefully take a meeting. So we already won because all of that stuff is in front of them. And Miranda -- by the way, she's like, in my early twenties — these are your early 20's; you're 28 (?) until next week, you know.   Anne: That's phenomenal. Miranda, I love that you said that it's already a success because it truly is in my eyes, and that's why I feel like it can't be anything but a success already. I've seen it evolve, I've seen it progress, and to me I'm in awe. I think it's amazing. I love the evolution, I love the whole creative process. And I think that it would help BOSSes to maybe wrap their heads around the whole production process of a creative project because I think it will help us to become better actors, become better business people, understanding the networking that you guys are going through and the process to get this produced and and get this out and see if — it's like a big huge audition. Right?    Scott: It is. The other thing is, I told you I don't book animation. So what we did was build a pilot and write ourselves into the pilot. So if I book animation, it'd likely be something that we wrote then Miranda drew. So I think that's a really important thing for anybody getting into it. Don't wait to be asked to the dance. Get out there and start dancing.    Miranda: I also think like the thing about networking that you said like Swampy, a friend of ours, you never know who you are going to meet or who's gonna hire you or who's gonna be your friend and let you work on their project or whatever. ‘Cause like, you know, I hired my roommate to work on some of the backgrounds for Comet. And the networking is so important in this industry, especially with animation, the way that it is right now. ‘Cause animation is very weird and not an incredible industry to get into right now. ‘Cause everything is very up in the air.    Scott: What do you mean, not a great industry? Do you mean it's uncertain?    Miranda: Yeah, it's very uncertain and there's lots of things.    Scott: Voiceover and acting --   Miranda: No, no, but like animation in particular, a lot of animated projects are getting canned. Like they took so much off of HBO Max and Netflix. Like all these animated projects on Netflix.   Scott: That happens in every facet of the entertainment --   Miranda: Right. That's true.   Anne: Ebb and flow.    Scott: It's building your house on mud and hoping for the best.    Miranda: Yeah.    Anne: Yeah.    Miranda: But you know, like you just never know who is gonna hire you. You never know who's gonna be part of your story next. So.   Scott: It's also a good reason to be nice to everybody.    Miranda: Exactly. It costs some money.    Scott: ‘Cause you never know. And that's why I always say, hey people, I know we have, we're represented by an agency, but please if I sent you the pilot and said, hey, send it to creators that you know, it's always great when something comes to the same point from different connections.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Scott: Oh, this is the pilot. Oh this is the guy that Apple, the Apple guy sent me this. So I believe you gotta get as many lines in the water as you can.    Anne: Absolutely. And that networking completely helps that. And I think that it's just something that's so important for us to know as we progress in this industry because this industry's uncertain, voice acting. Oh, oh my gosh. You know?   Scott: Also the other thing is Miranda's not stopping. She's doing Comet art for the pitch deck. Should we get the meeting, I feel confident people are gonna say, hey come in. We like it. We'd like to chat, doing that. But she's also prepping a bunch of stuff to submit for Smiling Friends. She just had a meeting with the storyboard director from Mitchells and the Machines. So you know, you can't just go, well, we've got our pilot. Let's just sit back and let the money roll in.   Miranda: Not over until it's over.    Anne: That's not over.    Miranda: It doesn't start till it starts.    Scott: Ah, I like that one.    Anne: Yeah. Now lemme ask you, Comet Casino, what's next? What's the next step?    Scott: Next week. Well, Miranda's doing art for the pitch deck. Hopefully it goes out to all the stupid buddies, the the titmouses, the --   Miranda: Bento boxes, the tornates, the 20th Century Fox.    Scott: It's gonna go out to every relevant animation company and every streamer, Amazon, Apple, all of those. And then we clear our schedule because we'll be just meeting so many people and having a bidding war on the Comet scene.    Anne: There you go.    Miranda: One would hope. One would hope.    Scott: We still, did you get one of these, Anne?    Anne: I did not get a bag.    Scott: We wanna send you a bag as a gift from the Comet Casino.    Anne: Oh, I love it.    Scott: And we'll put one of the lucky chips in there too.    Anne: Oh, I love that.    Scott: I always keep 'em in my pocket when I audition and I booked three commercials with one ofthese in my pocket.    Anne: Well, thank you. So let me ask you guys, before we go, first of all, how can somebody buy Comic Casino merch? Where do they go?    Miranda: They go to the Comet Casino gift shop, and it's the first thing that comes up on Google. I'll also send you the link so you can put it in the description of whatever podcast.    Anne: The Comet Casino gift shop. And guys, I have a few things. I have a few things from the Comet Casino, but I do not have a bag, so I would love that.    Scott: We'll send you the retro airline bag.    Anne: Thank you.    Scott: Cool thing where you put the cardboard on the bottom, and they put hard glasses in the bottom.    Anne: I love it.    Scott: And then we still have a bunch of shirts. We don't have a lot of stuff. We got hit pretty hard. Oh, we do have some of these handmade pendants that are really, really cool. We only have a -- I think there's only five of those left. They're really, really, really stunning.    Anne: That's very cool.    Scott: Our friend Lori Magna is this artisan in Boston, and she made, she does all the little -- I mean --   Anne: Oh, I love it.    Miranda: Aren't they so cool?   Anne: I love it. So Comet Casino gift shop.    Miranda: Yes, indeed.    Anne: And how can someone follow you, Miranda?    Miranda: Oh, well my Instagram is Parkinart, Parkinart. No spaces, no caps, no nothing. No, no underscores or dots or dits or numbers.    Anne: Perfect.    Scott: You can see me on a Tide commercial    Anne: Ah yes.    Miranda: And his Instagram. His Instagram --   Scott: Hang on, I forgot to say we just got these, the premade --   Miranda: The booklets.   Scott: Big comic books with all the concept art. They're 22 pages, and we just got these. There was a misprint. We got to help with the pitch and they did a misprint --   Anne: Will you be signing?    Scott: We're signing. Miranda will sign. I'll sign it. It doesn't really matter if I sign it, but Miranda's gonna sign it, and then if you get other cast members to sign it, you got something there.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: That'll be up on here very quickly as well.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: Anne, thank you so much. So sweet of you to have us on.    Anne: Thank you, guys. It was amazing. So much fun. And I'm looking forward to interviewing you again after it gets picked up and you guys --   Scott: Absolutely. And remember, we're voice first, and we have a very long memory and we remember everybody that was so supportive and helpful. And believe me, we'll be working hard. We don't know who's gonna buy it or what the situation will be. They may buy it outright, tell us to go away, you know what I mean? So we have no idea what that looks like. But if we have any say in it, we're gonna bring people to audition. Everybody gets up to bat, we're gonna write your names as a character, spread the wealth.    Anne: Love it. And your cat wants to say hello. I love it. You know, I have three cats, so I'm all about that. Well fantastic, guys. Thank you so much again. It was amazing. So much fun. Love, love, love what you're doing.    Miranda: Thank you so much for having us on.    Anne: Absolutely.    Scott: You've been so supportive, Anne. You jumped on the bandwagon and gave away merch very early on. This was an expensive proposal, right? Hiring an animation company to do four passes, and then I was sending random money to not take any other work while they worked on this thing. So it's really, really helpful to have such support. The main thing is, it's just really fun to see the cool logo and all the great art on it. It's very nice.    Anne: Absolutely. All right, well BOSSes, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Besides giving to Comet Casino, you can go to 100Voiceswhocare.org to find out more and commit. And also big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Great sound is an important factor in booking voice over work. In this episode, Anne is joined by audio engineer & musician Gillian Pelkonen to discuss the basics of audio for voice. Sound engineers listen for clean, crisp vocal sound. This is the kind of sound that helps you book more jobs, and it's the kind of sound that makes you stand out from the crowd. In order to get great voice over work, it's important that you have great sound. But what exactly is “great sound”? Is it the same as “high-quality audio”? The best way to solve audio issues is to address them before recording. Incorrect recording levels, too much room tone & improper mic technique are common audio issues. Feeling lost & overwhelmed with your sound? Anne & Gillian tell you all you need to know...   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring a very special guest to the show today, Gillian Pelkonen. Gillian is an audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer living and working in upstate New York, which is where I am from. Woohoo.   Gillian: Woo.   Anne: Uh, Gillian received her masters in audio arts from Syracuse University and has been working in audio engineering ever since. Gillian, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to talk to you.   Gillian: Anne, thank you so much for having me. It is so exciting to be on the show. Obviously I've listened to it a lot in the past few years, so --   Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you   Gillian: -- definitely trippy to be on this side of it. But yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat about audio.   Anne: Yeah, so I'm excited number one because you are from like practically my hometown. My family's still up there and I also love female engineers because that's kind of where I started as well. When I graduated from college, I went to school for engineering, not audio engineering, but engineering. And so I have uh, a soft spot in my heart for female engineers. So tell the BOSSes how you got started and what got you interested in audio engineering.   Gillian: Well, we are few and far between, unfortunately. I am a musician as well. I don't really say that, it's a weird word for me to say, but I've been playing guitar and singing and writing songs for as long as I could talk. It's been my outlet for everything. And I was working on a lot of my music in college and at recording studios on campus, and I couldn't find women to work with. I did have one female audio engineer that I worked with and that was the best experience I had, and I found her a bit later in the experience. But up until then I just didn't understand. And obviously gender is a construct. It's not really about that. But I found that I worked really well with women and people who were good listeners and who felt like they were as passionate about what I was trying to create as I was. And eventually I found that nobody was, so I just wanted to go learn it myself and just know how to do it and make music, and that's what got me into audio and now kind of in the voiceover AI sphere 'cause they're super connected.   Anne: Fantastic. So now you also sing as well?   Gillian: Yes. Yeah.   Anne: Oh wow. You are multifaceted. I love it. So let's talk a little bit about audio because for people just entering into the industry, it is I think one of the most scariest things because a lot of people are not necessarily technically adept at creating or editing audio. And so it really becomes a thing to enter in the voiceover industry. It's like, like not only do they have to learn how to perform and be authentic and real, and now all of a sudden they've gotta figure out, well, how am I going to prepare this audio to send to my client? And that just becomes a whole different thing, especially with technology.   And I've always said that to be successful in this industry, not only is it great to have that creative artistic talent in your performance, but you do have to be adept at technology because you're going to have to be able to handle that audio, edit that audio, deliver that audio to your client. And if that is not something that you're comfortable with, you need to actually get comfortable with it. So what would you say is the most important thing for people starting out in terms of their audio?   Gillian: That is a big question.   Anne: Yeah, I know, with probably an hour's worth of answers, I'm sure.   Gillian: Many hours worth of answers. I think for people starting out, the best thing you can do is, I hate to say work with a professional, but that might be a starting point just to understand what you might need because the hard part is not the audio. Everyone makes it like that's the daunting task because it's not what you're comfortable with, but I know that the acting is really difficult and the mic is just the thing that picks that up. And so if you're gonna go to a coach to work with your acting and develop that, why would you not go to an audio professional to get the right mic for you to get the right setup and get started with that? Because with audio, obviously the editing and that's a learning curve and process, which you will get comfortable with, the more you work on it, same way you get better at auditioning. But getting started with a professional will stop all those stumbles that you might find along the way with just trying to figure it out yourself. Because it's not complicated. But there's definitely a lot of ways to get lost on the path if you're not with the proper information.   Anne: Yeah. And I think too, the thing for me when I started it was all about the room, the studio. And I think you don't know what you don't know. And that's why I love that you said, you know, why wouldn't you work with a professional? Because we go to coaches for performance? Why wouldn't you go to an audio professional to get help with your studio? And I think that's fantastic advice. And it's something that I ended up doing because for me it was, oh my gosh, I have to say it was so frustrating. I remember at one point I didn't have it, and I sent some audio to a client, and they're like, Anne, it sounds like you're talking into a tube. And I was mortified, and I was like, oh my gosh, maybe I shouldn't be in this industry. And I was so frustrated, I remember like physically crying, and I don't like to admit that, but I was so frustrated.   And at the time it was hard to know because I started so long ago, the internet wasn't quite a thing where we were in community groups yet. And so I didn't even know how to reach out or who to reach out to. So I think it's wonderful now that there are lots of people that we can reach out to. And I, for one, when I have a new student, I always recommend that they talk to an audio engineer to get their environment set first, and then it becomes like, oh my, my gosh. Well, what mic? And I think you're probably gonna tell us that the environment might be a little more important than that. So let's talk about what's important in a good environment for us to record in?   Gillian: Well, there's so many things to say, and just going back one second, there is no shame in crying over figuring out audio issues.   Anne: Thank you. I feel better.   Gillian: I have to say that I have at some point because they're very frustrating. It's so easy to get your wires crossed, and I'm sure we'll have longer conversations about this, but it's definitely very frustrating 'cause your voice is coming out of your mouth. Like it's like I hear it, I hear it. Why is it not in my computer? So the frustration is real, I understand that. And the reason that I do say higher professionals is because so much of your valuable time will be wasted troubleshooting these things that someone like me or any of the other pros doing this will be able to diagnose and fix in a couple seconds.   Anne: Yeah. You have the ear. You have the ear for it, which I think most people starting out in voiceover, if you don't even know the industry, how can you expect to have an ear for it?   Gillian: Exactly. And it's funny, when I was in school, I felt that there was not a lot of sound representation. I was initially in school for TV and film. And one of the first sound classes I took, the professor on the syllabus said, sound is 50% of a picture and nobody cares about it. Like picture being a movie, and for voiceover it's a hundred percent. So it's even more essential to have it, you know, that's your introduction to a client. And like you were saying, if your audio comes in not sounding right, you don't sound as professional. Doesn't matter how your read is. So that's something.   Anne: And especially since the pandemic, right? Because we can't go to professional studios anymore. So it's more important than ever that our home studios are set up properly. And even just like, again, starting out, you don't really know. And I will say that there's a ton of information on the internet. But again, there's a ton of information on the internet. So how do newcomers to the industry discern what's the good information and what's not good information? Because I certainly didn't go to school for audio engineering and I know that that's an entire field, obviously. So again, so for our environment then, what's important, what's important for us to set that up?   Gillian: Well, I think the most important thing is, within a voice, something that I listen for is crisp, clean, natural sound. I want it to sound like we're sitting together talking, but maybe a little bit better, because you know, with all the equipment you have the ability to boost some frequencies in your voice. We're basically, with audio, we're trying to mimic what our ear hears, but there's this whole other, I'm not going to get into it, but there's something called psychoacoustics, which is how panning works and stereo. And it's basically using the computer and things we can do with audio and stereo field to trick your ear into hearing things that are not exactly as they are. So we're using plugins, EQ, all of those things to make you sound your best. But some issues that I see happen a lot is, you know, incorrect recording levels, too much room tone, too much stuff going on in your environment, improper mic placement, just not speaking into the right part of the mic or having it placed the wrong way. And then there's just textural issues of needing plug-ins or other things to manipulate your voice to get it sounding its best.   Anne: Got it. So in terms of recording levels, right, I'm still thinking about the room and, and you said things are happening -- is there such a thing -- some students have mentioned this to me -- as being soundproof so that, oh gosh, I live next to an airport or the landscapers out there -- is there a way that you can create a studio that is soundproof that you won't hear those things?   Gillian: Yes. I think that it's going to be wildly out of a regular person's budget because like when you go into a recording studio, the way that they do that is they have floating floors, and basically you build a room inside of a room, and there's a bunch of ways to do it. But when you're in an isolation booth, you know there's the building and then there's the studio which is within it. So there's gonna be acoustic paneling and other things in there that help with the reflections of the sound. But realistically you'd need to build something. But that's not the only way to get really good isolated sound. You can do DIY things. I mean people go into closets to record for a reason. They're really good. I mean, I don't know if it's sustainable, you know; you need a booth if you're gonna be doing it full-time or something. But that tiny confined space that stops any reflections of sound, which would make echoes in the background, the padding of clothing that would kind of dampen everything, and that just makes it really clear for the mic to be picking up your voice.   Anne: Got it. So then if you've got a decent environment, right, that doesn't have a lot of hard surfaces and you've got the absorption so that you're not getting echo or reflection back, what then is the next thing that we wanna look at in terms of getting great sound from our studios?   Gillian: Well, I think a really important thing is recording level. I think making sure that you're coming in at the right volume, and it's kind of like, you know, Goldilocks situation. You don't wanna be too loud, you don't wanna be too quiet, you wanna kind of be just right. And a way that I gauge this, I don't really like giving numbers as like, if you are at this number, you're perfect. You're at the, you know, that's really hard. I want everyone to learn to trust your ears. But there are a few ways to measure it. So within your DAW, there's usually gonna be like a colorful meter that's going. And when you're checking that out, I like to say to be three quarters of the way up. So you don't wanna be lower than half, you don't wanna be towards the top. And I know I work primarily in Pro Tools. I know most people don't and most voice actors shouldn't. There's no need. But it's really green at the three quarters away mark, and then it starts to go orange and red and you never wanna be in the red. That audio will become unusable. But that's how I like to look at it. And I think it's simple enough for someone to look at within their DAW and see.   Anne: Now you mentioned something that, and I don't wanna get too off track 'cause I got a couple other questions I'd love for you to answer, but you mentioned that Pro Tools wasn't necessarily something that a voice actor needed. And I remember, oh gosh, back in the day, Pro Tools Lite used to come with the audio interface and so I started using Pro Tools Lite, and it was a bear. to learn. And I think that was also another thing that scared me in terms of how am I gonna be able to succeed in this industry if I cannot figure out how to use this audio editor? So if I can just kind of divert just for a minute, tell us what kind of an audio editor or your DAW, right, it's also known as a DAW, is good for today's voice talent when they first start out?   Gillian: Yeah. So DAW is, I just throw the terms around 'cause sometimes I forget like this is my language, but it's a digital audio workstation. So that's really anything you're gonna be working in. I use Pro Tools because it's a great multi-track recorder. A lot of times when I'm working in music, we usually sit around 50 to 100 tracks going on. Maybe not at at one time eventually, but you know when you're doing voiceover you have one, it's a mono recording for the most part. So I know a lot of people use Twisted Wave. I've used Twisted Wave. I think that it's great.   Anne: I love Twisted Wave.   Gillan: I know people use Audition. Audition is great. I think that really, especially starting out, you don't need anything more than Twisted Wave. I think it's affordable, I think it's great. I spend most of my time in Pro Tools. I dabble in Logic and Audition and even Audition is a little bit complicated. I can imagine being overwhelmed by it for the functionality. I don't know if it's necessary really, but I don't wanna knock it. I know people love it. Anne: Shh. Don't tell anybody, but I totally agree with you. And the reason why is because I think I started with Pro Tools Lite and I was like, oh my God, this is too much. I don't think I need it. And I think to reiterate what you're saying, we are voice actors. Unless we're producers or audio engineers, we don't need multi-tracks. I mean unless I'm putting sound effects or music under, I don't need that capacity.   Gillian: Which you can do in Twisted Wave.   Anne: And Twisted Wave for me is so simple in terms of, it's like Audacity on crack, I always say that , because Audacity is free. You get what you pay for and it's wonderful and I think a lot of people do that. But I think if you have a Mac, Twisted Wave is the way to go. What about a PC though for your DAW? What do you think? I mean 'causeTwisted Wave doesn't run natively on PC. They have an online version if I remember correctly. Or they're coming out with, I think.   Gillian: They do have an online version and from what I know they are working on it for PC. I have not had a PC since the early 2000s, my first computer. So really, I don't know, I think maybe trying the web browser version for that would work. And you know, I'd have to get a better answer for that 'cause honestly I live in the Mac universe. That's where I work.   Anne: Well, and if we wanted to get into arguments with people that listen to this about which is better Mac or PC for audio editing, I will say my own personal story is when I started outta college, I worked on systems that were Unix based. And so I was a Unix girl, and then Windows kind of came up the ranks. And when I was working in education we started using Windows servers, and so I became a PC girl. And then ultimately when I started to go into voiceover part-time and then full-time of course, I bought a really kicked up version of a Dell laptop with the most memory and everything that I thought was gonna be my computer for audio. And my audio didn't work; it wasn't compatible. And I was so upset 'cause I spent a lot of money upgrading the RAM and upgrading the space and doing everything to have a really great computer. And it didn't work.   And so for many years people said Mac, it just works for audio and creative endeavors. And I just said, well let me try it and I'll tell you what, I haven't looked back. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. BOSSes out there, I'm not saying that one's better than the other. However, my personal experience is that the Mac just, things just work audio wise. You hook up any particular microphone or audio interface, boom. It recognizes it. I've not had issues.   Gillian: Yeah. I mean, I lived my entire life in the Mac ecosystem. Like that's how I organize my life. Obviously I've had friends and people I know -- my boyfriend has a PC, I don't know how to work it. . I mean I'm learning, but it's just, yeah. Apples and oranges, literally it is. But I think that there's a way to do it if you have a pc, don't go out and buy a Mac because we said we like them. There's a way to to work around it. But realistically, even going back to the Audition versus Twisted Wave, it's all about the interface. And really as a voice actor, from my understanding and as I work as an engineer, speed is so important. And so if you're gonna simplify your DAW for you to be able to work in it faster, like it's basically up to you where you're the most comfortable. So that's really the moral of the story.   Anne: That's a great point. It's a great point because, guys, unless you're outsourcing people to do your audio editing, you do spend a considerable amount of time, once you've recorded something, editing that. For me, I think I started off it was like a 1:5 ratio where if I did an hours worth of recording, it would take me five hours to edit it, and then as you get better -- you know, I'm about at a one to three ratio. I can't get any quicker than that. But if you're going to be spending a, a majority of your time editing, and again, like I said, unless you're outsourcing, I mean you might as well be comfortable and really consider the speed of which you can work and things that can help you to be more efficient. Let's talk a little bit about -- I see in the forums there's always, what's your noise floor? And so what's the importance of having a low noise floor?   Gillian: So noise floor is basically the sound that your gear makes because if you think about it, voice goes into a microphone, goes through an XLR cable or maybe directly into the computer, through the interface, back into the computer. That process makes a little bit of electronic noise.   Anne: And so I didn't know that actually.   Gillian: The term noise floor describes that noise. And usually they're related to room tone because, the sound around you, those are just things that end up needing to be taken out and they're kind of like white noisy or they're not, you know, the sound of a door slamming, but they are noise that end up on your audio file. So it's really important to make sure that your gain is set properly on your interface because if my gain is really quiet and I do a recording, and I need it to be loud enough to listen to, then you're gonna be stuck boosting your clip gain. And then the noise floor, everything, like all the sound that your electronics make, are gonna be super loud and proportion to the recorded sound. So that's where it all gets related. Same with room tone. Like if there's too much going on in your room, and it's picking that up more than your voice, then there's gonna be a lot more of it to take out, if that makes sense.   Anne: And I can always tell like a beginner, because they don't have their levels set. And so what'll happen is they'll set their gain like really low and then they can play their recording and they won't hear any noise. But yet when you, let's say, normalize it or you bring the the levels up, then all of a sudden it's like got some sort of shh sound and, and then that's when people are like, well no, I didn't normalize it because it makes this noise. And I'm like, well that's the stuff that you have to get rid of. So how do you get rid of the noise? I mean, what's the effective way of getting rid of that?   Gillian: Well, there's two ways to get rid of noise. There's before, you know, fixing the problems before you hit record, which is the best way to do it. And then there's post-production stuff that you can do later. And I've had people come to me with audio issues, and sometimes they are unfixable. We are not magicians. There are some things that are just, if you record so quiet and your noise floor is so loud, there's no way to take that off and have your voice not sound distorted or wrong. So the best way is isolate yourself, make sure you're in a good environment, make sure you sound okay in your booth, your DIY booth, and make sure that your gain is set properly so you're not set up for failure later. And then in post-production, there are plug-ins that you can use to kind of remove those frequencies.   So if you're getting rid of room tone, something that I use is Spectral DeNoise by Izotope RX. I think I have 8 or 9, I'm not sure what number they're up to, but really the one that I have is great. And that just you take a little, it takes like a little audio picture of the room tone and then goes throughout the audio file and just removes that frequency and tone, which is great. That's incredible. The only thing you need to have with that is a little bit of room tone noise with no speaking before or after the clips so that you know, the generator can grab it. But that's my favorite thing to use. And it works really well for slight room tone or little wind in the background if you're outside, whatever it might be. But that's like the pro plugin.   Anne: So then there's the DAW, right? And that is really based on what you're comfortable with. And depending on your platform, you can have various DAWs. We've already established that we like Twisted Wave. You use Pro Tools because of course you're an audio engineer and, and then that makes sense. You need to have that functionality. Now we've added into the mix something called Izotope to help remove certain noises. And so is that typically what most voice actors will have to buy, Izotope? Will it work within their DAW or is that when it becomes complicated?   Gillian: It's a whole thing. We could do a whole episode about plug-ins and all of that. But for the simple answer is that Izotope, they have a bunch of plug-ins, all voice related. The two that I use the most -- I have the whole suite because, you know, I work with voices all the time, and realistically you can meet with an audio engineer like me and I would say, hey, you probably need this and you need this. You don't need to buy all of them. But I use spectral de-noise the most that gets rid of the noise. And then there's also mouth de-click, which gets rid of all the little clicky -- those noises. I use that often, but I use that for music, for everything for my singing voice. I hate hearing those, um, myself. So those are the two that I use. But you can get any variation. I haven't used them within Twisted Wave just because I haven't, but I think that you can, because --   Anne: I have.   Gillian: Oh. Yes, you can integrate them into DAWs. I've used them in Pro Tools, I've used them in Logic, I've used them in Audition, and Izotope as well has its own little audio editor. So you can import a file, render it with the effect, and then import it into your DAW if you like to work that way.   Anne: So then let's talk about, okay, if you're new to the industry and you're kind of overwhelmed with all of this, you are available. Like an audio engineer can be available to help you with all of those choices. Right? You can help in terms of, let's say, somebody doesn't know what to do to make their sound better in their booth. So they can consult with you, maybe send you a sound file, and you can evaluate and then offer suggestions on how they might be able to improve their sound, right, and get rid of some of the noise. And so that also includes, right, what microphone should I get? I mean that's the other thing, right? So we've talked about how important the environment is. We've talked about DAWs and how we can do things after, you know, we record to get rid of noise. Now, how important is a microphone in terms of the quality of your sound?   Gillian: I think having a good quality microphone is very important. I personally don't think that there is a, a voiceover microphone. I think that, I know a lot of people use 416s. Those are tricky in a lot of ways. I think any large diaphragm condenser mic works really well because it's very sensitive and it picks up your voice. I have on my website a list of gear recommendations at three different price points, low to high that I recommend. But really more important than having the most expensive mic is knowing how to use that mic. And so that has to do with placement, understanding --   Anne: What do you mean by placement?   Gillian: So for mic placement, it's really about where you're positioning yourself with the mic, and knowing a mic is circular, you gotta make sure that you're singing or talking into the right part of it.   Anne: That's what I was just gonna say. Yeah. I remember once I had purchased my TLM 103 and I had it installed backwards, and so I was not speaking into the right part of the mic and I couldn't figure out why it didn't sound awesome like everybody else. And literally I had just put it upside down in my mount and then didn't realize that I was speaking into the back of it. And so that is a very important thing. Again, that's something that you can help as well with talent. So I don't want, BOSSes, if you're just new to this, I don't want you to feel overwhelmed because an audio engineer can do amazing things from remote. They don't have to be in your studio. They can really help you to set up a great environment. They can help you with selection or I guess I would say recommendations on a mic that might be good for your voice, right? Also placement, right? And where you should be speaking into that mic. And also maybe with your editing or creating what I like to call -- I have a stack that is basically something that I apply to all of my audio after I record. And that takes out the highs, the lows, does a little bit of compression. Let's talk a little bit about stacks and how they can help in the editing process.   Gillian: Can we go back to microphones for one second?   Anne: Oh yes, I'm sorry. Yeah.   Gillian: No, it's okay. Just, it's so hysterical that you say that about the microphone because --   Anne: Being backwards?   Gillian: I mean it's hard to know. It's hard to know. And something when I was in school that I was taught very early on and I never forget, and it -- I was in school, you know, for music recording, but they're all the same. So my professor would always say sing to the bling. And that means basically when you have a microphone, wherever the logo is, that's where you should be facing. A lot of people, you know, make the mistake of going, oh, I want my Telefunken logo facing out. You would think maybe that's the way it goes. And that's how it ends up backwards. But really, and it doesn't work a 100% of the time 'cause there are a few mics that the capsule doesn't work that way. But most of the time if you see a logo, talk towards that logo. And another thing for just very simple, little explanation for voice actors, if you have an option to pick a polar pattern on your mic, which will come in the instructions, it'll be on the front. You wanna do cardioid, 'cause kind of what you were talking about. Your TLM 103 was set in cardioid and you were facing the back. So all the sound was being rejected, but I know some mics come set in omni, which will increase your room noise because that means that everything around the mic is getting picked up instead of sense, just your voice. So if there's an option for cardioid, just pick cardioid. We can talk about it later, but just pick it.   Anne: Fantastic. So then let's talk again about how we can make our editing a little bit easier on us by using what -- I call them stacks. I don't know if you call them something different, but these are processes that can be applied to your audio to help take out noises. And I would say when I first got my stack, it saved me like 50% of my editing time. Otherwise I kept going in and out of my waves and removing noise, and it just was so tedious.   Gillian: Yeah. So stacks, whatever you wanna call them, it's really just a plug-in sequence, and it's stuff that every time you open it up, you have these settings, and they will save you time. And I think that everyone should have a light one that's just, you know, fixing up a few things, and then obviously the audition one because you send an audition, you wanna sound like the final job that should be a bit more processed. But that usually comes with EQ, compression, and all of those things. You know, if, if your mouth clicks are very present with your mic or with your voice, that would be on there, which would help with removing all those noises, and yeah, those things, having them set ahead of time, those can be issues that people have with audio that are just taken care of right away. But I do think that if you feel comfortable doing them yourself and you think that you can EQ yourself, then good luck, go at it . But I do think that maybe, you know, working with someone who can help you would be helpful.   Anne: I agree. I agree. And, and I will say that just because again, I did not go to school for audio engineering, so I always highly recommend working with a professional. What is it like to work with you in terms of -- let's say, a student wanted to hire you to help them with their sound. What do you do? How do you assess that?   Gillian: So my current offering that I have, which is kind of just starting point and sort of a pipeline into us working together further is I offer an audio assessment. Because there are a lot of people that are selling and selling and selling, and sometimes they sell things that people don't really need. So the audio assessment is sort of a checkpoint. We meet, it's not together, but this is, you know, our interaction. I have some pre-written copy that you'll get. You send me an audio sample, I listen, and I either say, hey, you know, you're really set, you're great, you actually don't need anything. You sound like a pro. Or hey, here are a few things that I would fix, and I address all the things that we talked about today. You know, I think that maybe your mic placement is a little bit off. I think that maybe your gain, you know , all the things I'm hearing. I would EQ it this way. I think maybe a little compression would help your voice. Just the things that I'm hearing to kind of get an engineer's ear on what you're sending to clients and how you sound. And from there we can go on and potentially, you know, build a stack together, and I'm working on building out some courses for people to learn a bit more. But that's what I have kind of right now going.   Anne: Fantastic. So now did you say is there a cost associated with the audio assessment or?   Gillian: Yes.   Anne: Okay. Yes. Okay. So BOSSes, I do believe that we have a special offering from Gillian.   Gillian: We do, we do.   Anne: Yeah. For her to assess your audio. Tell us about that.   Gillian: So for BOSSes and everyone getting involved for the next month or so, I'm gonna be running, you know, $20 off my audio assessments. For the early bird BOSSes, we are going to, for the first five people to get on my site and purchase an audio assessment using the promo code BOSSTOP5, you'll get a free audio assessment. I will kind of go over it, and Anne and I will actually be going over them on our next episode together. So you know, proceed with caution. If you don't wanna be on the show, don't do it. But the first five people will get a free audio assessment and anonymous we will go through and just kind of talk about the issues so that you can hear what I would do, what I'm hearing, just to have it as a further explanation for educational purposes, and for anyone who's not in the first five $20 off for that.   Anne: Well fantastic. I love, love, love that because first of all, as you know, I am all about education, and so I love that we're gonna actually do this stuff in our next episodes. So yeah, bosses, the first five to purchase an audio assessment using the word BOSS Top 5, BOSSTOP5 are going to get a free audio assessment, and we're gonna be on the show. So you're gonna hear Gillian live, assessing your audio, making the suggestions, and we're gonna just be learning as we go. And I love that. So Gillian, thank you so much for that. I think that's a wonderful offer, and thanks so much for being on the show. I feel like we just --   Gillian: Just scratched surface, I know.   Anne: Yes. We have so much more to come, and so BOSSes, I'm proud to announce that Gillian and I are gonna be getting together for more episodes so that we can have an entire audio themed series. And so I'm really excited. Gillian, thank you so much for today's episode and for the BOSS top five, guys, we're gonna be sending out an email. It's also gonna be on our show notes page, so make sure that you check out our VO BOSS show notes page for that offer. And wow, Gillian, thanks so much.   Gillian: Thank you so much for having me, and everybody who's listening, if you have audio questions, get in contact, reach out via Instagram, whatever you do to get a hold of BOSS Queen, Ms. Anne, and let her know 'cause we will cover everything that you wanna know. And I'm just really excited to also, you know, educate people and teach them what they need to know, what they should be hiring people for, and just get everybody sounding their best.   Anne: Okay. And that website is?   Gillian: For me, it's gillwitheg.com. Gill with the G.com. It'll, I'll be linked in the show notes. And same with social media, that's, that's where I am everywhere.   Anne: Fantastic. All right, guys, I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The voice over industry is always changing. Pivoting for success is about preparing for that change and learning how to adapt. Anne & Lau are very experienced with pivoting professionally. How else could they keep their businesses thriving for 15 years? Pivoting is not just about immediately making changes to your process, but exploring your options. It's about taking a step back, looking at what you are doing and asking yourself “Is this working? Is this the right thing?” There's an incredible amount of pressure to stay ahead of the curve and keep up with the latest trends & tech. If you're not learning new things, you're falling behind. Don't sweat it, Bosses. Anne & Lau are here to help you embrace these shifts + take advantage of bigger & better opportunities...   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along here with my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you today?    Lau: I'm, I'm doing great.    Anne: Awesome. So Lau, last night -- (laughs) -- Late at night, I had the television on, and there was an episode of Friends that came on. It's one of my favorite episodes because I don't know if you watch Friends. Oh, okay.    Lau: Back in the day, are you kidding me? We were all Friends.   Anne: So, do you remember the episode where they're trying to get the mattress up the staircase, and they're having a hard time making the turn? And Ross, Ross kept saying, pivot (laughs). Pivot. Pivot. And it totally made me think of my business, and I thought we could talk about pivoting. So question BOSSes, how good are you at pivoting and making quick changes, doing things in the moment, evolving along and changing direction? Good question. And I think we are at a point in our industry where things are changing, Lau, more than ever before.    I mean, I think things are always changing. We always have to be on the lookout for trends. But I do feel as though we are at a pivotal point, (laughs), no pun intended, a critical point too in the industry where things just may change. And if we wanna survive, Lau, as a business — and I sat back and really thought about this the other day, we have to be able to evolve and change along with that if we want to survive. And I thought, alright, let's ask myself the toughest question. What would happen? ‘'Cause this has been on the forums for good long time now — the threat of synthetic voices, right? Well, what would happen to your business? Right? Ask yourself the question, BOSSes, what would happen if you did not have voiceover anymore? How would you be able to maintain a business or stay in business? How would you pivot?    Lau: That's an excellent question. It's sort of a human question too. We never wanna think about this, but what happens if our career goes down? What happens if our house is gone? What happens if we can't walk anymore? I mean, these are things we don't wanna think about but that do happen in life to people every moment of the day. And it's not unrealistic to say, let me think of three possible scenarios that I could do if my business starts to crash and burn. Or if the pipeline for my business that I so rely upon, those 2, 3, 4 clients are gone? I actually saw one business, Anne, where there was four biggies in the pipeline for a talent, and they all went down. This was at the beginning of a earlier recession, and he had to close his business. He had to close, not because he didn't have the business, because he didn't know how to pivot.    Anne: Well, you bring up such a good point. And you know, the pandemic was a big jolt to everyone's minds in saying, oh gosh, all of a sudden things have changed. Right? And this became like, well, we better make sure our studios are up to snuff and because we're gonna now be working from our home studios. And it became a thing that if you were a talent and you didn't have the proper requirements for your studio, if it didn't sound good, if you didn't have Source Connect or ipDTL or another way to connect to your client, your business might be suffering. And so those that were able to pivot and quickly recognize this and implement that, if they didn't have it implemented already, we're able to pivot. That was, I think, one of the first jolts to, I think a lot of us in the industry, that, oops, something changed and we need to be able to pivot with it in order to be successful or remain successful.    Lau: Now, did you have one, at least one big pivot and during covid that you can recall and say, wow, that was a big shift? I changed, whatever that was? Do you have one in mind that you did during that Covid period right at the beginning?    Anne: That's a good question. Well, first of all, I know that right before lockdown, I was super excited because I was able to complete this studio before that happened. And so when that happened, the great thing was, is that I was prepared. And I know that I already had been active with my ipDTL, so I was thankful for that, right, and Source Connect. And so I technically knew how to use them, I had used them. I was able to then make sure that I had those advertised on my page to make sure I could handle new work coming in, or if people had questions, because it was becoming a requirement now in casting specs.    And so for me, it was literally making a pivot. I also had a lot of people reaching out for coaching, right? So I needed to make sure that I was able to handle the influx, which to me was a wonderful thing, right? I didn't have to necessarily worry so much about not working or losing business because more and more was coming in. So for me, it was an adjustment in terms of my scheduling and how I could fit everything in and do that. But what about you, Lau? Because you had a physical studio. Talk about that.    Lau: Yeah, I did. And I did what every other voiceover talent. I was building my own voiceover studio from home. But the big pivot for me that I didn't even recognize I was doing, besides going online with the business, which was huge — that to me was huge, like, being able to go into the global zone and reach clients that way was terrifying, but incredibly exciting. The other big pivot for me was becoming an agent. So I never, ever dreamed or thought of that or envisioned that as part of my business at all. And then all of a sudden, I was on lockdown with everyone else, and I said, I,  I --   Anne: Yeah, maybe we'll do that.    Lau: And yeah. And my husband said, do you know anything about that? Do you know how to do that? I said, uh, no. I've had agents as a talent, but I've, I've never worked in an agency. I've never worked in an office. I'll figure it out.(laughs)    Anne: I love that. I'll figure it out.    Lau: So it's that sense of — the way I was trained. Yeah. The way I was trained, my mentors were like, listen, in business, Lau, in business, you have to set up your service. And then you have to figure out how to do it. Because believe it or not, (laughs), right? Miss control factor here, you are not gonna know how to do most things before you sell it. And that to me was outta my mind with that. Like, I had to know exactly how to do everything before I could put it on the market. And I learned that's actually not the way business really runs. Like you're upgrading your product, you're offering new services, and you're kind of piloting it and pulling it to figure out what it is through your client base. And I figured out how to do that. But the big pivot for me was going online.    Anne: That's amazing. So you created another segment of your business, or you grew another segment of your business. And I'm gonna say for me, during the pandemic, it was growing my business for coaching and demo production and producing demos online. Now, I am gonna say, for me, I am so grateful that I came from a background of technology because I was very used to having new things thrown at me and then being able to learn them and adjust and pivot. And I cannot tell you how much that experience helped me through the pandemic and pretty much anything else that as the industry grows here, being able to adjust it.    You know, in the beginning, the fact that I understood technology or I could work with technology helped me when home studios weren't a thing, and then they were a thing. So I understood that it was something I needed to do. Being online, that has always been an inherent part of my experience, and I'm very grateful for that. It's how I brought VO Peeps into light. When I decided to quit my job and then just do full-time VO, I had to really start implementing things quickly so that I could bring in some revenue. And because I had experience in technology, I thought I would say, well, I thought, well, I can create a networking group that's global and that's online. And thus began VO Peeps.    As, you know, things started to evolve. I started to offer classes using streaming technologies and then hybrid classes so that people didn't have to be physically near me to take a class or in person. They could do it online, in Zoom. And so I was able to evolve with that. And so I'm very, very fortunate and I cannot stress enough for those of you out there that maybe are afraid of technology or afraid of your computer or learning new things, I think it's fundamental, number one, to be able to take advantage of the technologies, to help you pivot (laughs) and help you grow. And I think that that's number one, that I feel so lucky that I'm — was able to pivot with the help of technology, and the fact that I knew it — and if I didn't know it, I would learn it. Right Lau, just like you, if you don't know, you're going to have to learn in order to kind of stay afloat and survive.    Lau: I think also along with that, there's this sense of who I thought I'd be or where I thought I'd be by a certain age or a stage of life. And I know a lot of people go through this like, oh, I think I'd be this, or I'd be married by this day, whatever. Believe it or not, I always thought from a young age, I would be like, a talent, full-time, professional talent, because that's what I was trained to do for the first half of my life. And then that was a massive pivot. And very difficult too, because anyone who's a talent who pivots in another direction, whether they become a producer or a director or they own an agency or whatever, there's that loss. There's a little bit of mourning in that. There's that loss of understanding that, sure, I can do a gig or whatever, but my real focus for my business is in this direction.    So that was a massive pivot for me when I opened my studio to really say, I can still do a gig if I wanna do a gig, but it's no longer my focus, it's not my focus point. My focus point is this. And to be able to concentrate and discipline myself to, to pivot in that direction is tough. It's wonderful that we're capable of doing that. But every, like, I'd say, every year, maybe once a year or so, like I just wanna cry my eyes out because I think, oh, what could have happened if I used this in my performance track? You know what I mean?   Anne: First of all, I love that you mentioned that. I wanna say that I've always been of the philosophy that I love performing, right? I love being a voice actor, and nothing beats it. Right? But I give so much credit to my ability and what I've learned over the years to build a business in regard to keeping me safe and able to pivot, right? So again, if I ask the really hard question, okay, synthetic voices are getting good, right? There will be a market for them. There will be people who will pay for them. It will be okay at some point it'll probably evolve because I've gotten used to talking to Alexa. I always use Alexa as my example, but what am I going to do when parts of my business are taken away, right, by the technology? What can I do?    And so asking the really tough question, if there was no voiceover, if the synthetic voice got so good that maybe the market just collapsed, and that could happen, what would I do? And I am thankful, so very thankful that I have the business skills, right? I've built a business and I've maintained that business for 15, longer than 15 years. And so what can I bring with those skills, right, to maybe not perform and do voiceover? What else could I do?    And so I really started to think about, okay, there's lots of kind of things on the side. I have the VO Peeps group. I call it the tendrils of my business, like it's got arms. But really I could do something more with that. Or with the podcast, maybe I could be a podcast host or I could help other people develop their podcast. There's so many things that I am grateful for, again, because I have built my business up. But I think, BOSSes out there, you've got to really, really sit down and think, what will happen if this industry changes in a way that it's not what I intended right now? And am I preparing myself? Am I training myself to be able to evolve and pivot with it?    But I think the whole business skills thing, if you guys are bored, (laughs) BOSSes out there, if you're bored, like, what should I train on next? Right? What should I do? Yes, of course, performance. But don't forget, gosh, about business, marketing -- those things, those skills will be invaluable for you as a business in order to survive whatever pivot you decide or whatever pivot you do.    Lau: Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that. I think you gotta be in the business of being in business. My dad always said, I'm in the business of staying in business, right? So I'm not gonna do something completely unrelated, because it's not within my skillset. Like I'm not gonna go all of a sudden be a nurse. I'm probably not gonna be a firefighter. Could I actually have the skills to apply? Yeah. I really could, 'cause I feel like I've been taking care of people for a lot of years, but I'm not gonna do that. That's out of my realm, but within my realm — you're building hardcore skills, these BOSSes that are listening now. You're really, you may not know it, but you're building skills so that if one area of your business goes down, you don't wanna become obsolete.    It reminds me of the services that were doing, you know, VHS movies, you know what I mean? And you'd go in and you'd rent a movie and take — you and I remember those days, you'd take that movie, you'd rewind it and bring it back. Well, they went out of business, they became obsolete and went out of business when then we went to DVDs, and now we're streaming, and now we're this. So I always wondered, why didn't they go into that area of innovation? Why did they just close down? Why didn't they pivot and shift? Why didn't they go into DVDs? Why didn't they --   Anne: Great example, Netflix.   Lau: I don't know why.   Anne: Right? Netflix, it was videos, right? It was videos that you rented and they mailed them to you. Right? Do you remember that? I feel old now. They mailed them to you for $.99 when you joined, right? And you could just keep getting videos and look at their pivot. Wow. I mean, that's an amazing pivot. Now they're one of the largest online streaming services, and I'm gonna say Microsoft, IBM. Look at these big companies that have been around for a very long time, right, and how they have pivoted and evolved. Look at, I think I was mentioning this to you before, but I had just seen something with Gary Vaynerchuk, who I absolutely love. He just was talking about the tractor. So farmers, when the tractor was invented, they were like, oh, it's gonna take away my job, it's gonna take away my job. And they would scream, and guess what? We evolved, right? So now tractors are being used to help farmers do their job. And so then we can, as humans, do more wonderful things.    So I always think — when people have a thought that, oh my God, this is gonna take my job away. My business is gonna fall out from under me -- I think we need to really think about tractors or that concept that like, okay, how can we use whatever it is that's disrupting our business? And I'm gonna use technology as an example, right, synthetic voices. How can we use that to enhance our business or expand our business? How can we use it to help us do our jobs better? And I'm telling you, BOSSes out there, if you use Positron mm, okay, you cannot be hypocritical, right? Positron uses AI to help you do your job better, right?    And yes, there's a lot of discussion about rights and and licensing and yes, that needs to be addressed. Right? Which is what I've always been talking about. If you're on the ground floor with this stuff, you have a voice to be able to make sure that that will happen. Okay? So I think really, it's going to expand us as human beings. Right? And it's not gonna take over ,because human beings invented it. Right? And I like to believe that not everybody in the world is evil, and that we will ultimately use the technology to help us to build better things and to be greater human beings. Because nothing will take away the fact that we are humans, and we humans like to engage with each other. Yeah, yeah.    Lau: And we also like to innovate. And I think once you sit back and you stop innovating, then you're stopping the whole nature of what business is. I mean, building a business needs to be built from the ground up. Even if someone is handing you a business or selling you a business, you still have to put your stamp on that. And you have to figure out from an integral source about like, how do we do things? Like the best people who run businesses know how to do a lot of the jobs. It doesn't mean they're going to, but they're gonna delegate them. But it, they know how to do a lot of what their business runs on.   Anne: They're educated. Right? Educate yourself.    Lau: They're educated. So yeah, so the peeps listening now have to think, okay, what are three things right now that are related, directly related to my business that are my skillset that I'm learning and I'm doing that I could literally offer -- I could extend my business if this area goes down, if this area? Like I'm a really great writer. Okay. If you're a great writer, you should be able to write copy, you should be able to write particular scripts in certain genres that you love or that you're really good at. You should be able to sell those potentially.    Anne: But what if AI takes that away from you, Lau, then what? Then where's your pivot? There you go. Mm.    Lau: Well, there it is. You have to continue to -- it's like a tree. I always feel like, I know you feel this way too, Anne, in my business, my life isn't long enough to do everything I wanna do. Like I'm an idea a minute. I, I'm like an advertising agency idea minute kind of person. I'm like, oh my God, yes, I could create a library of this, and then I could do this and then I could offer this. Do I do it all? No, because you can't do it all. You have to make selections and prioritize along the way. But if three things went down, I'd take three other things and build them up. Because I feel like we are expansive. We're expansive of possibilities. There's so much realm we can do.   Anne: Yes, always think of the abundance, right, rather than what's being taken away. People who are stomping their foot and saying no, no to this technology, no to this evolution of what's happening in the industry. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna stop AI. I'm just not as a single human being. I can have a voice and determine how I use it. Right? And how it will affect me and how it will affect my business. And for me, I am steadfastly committed to not having my business be in any sort of detriment because of it. I will use what I use to enhance my business, and that's it.    But I think we have to always be of the mindset that we need to educate ourselves in order to really think about how are we going to pivot and educate yourself continually think about what it is that you bring to the table that can be another avenue for you or another tendril of your business to start developing now. And it doesn't have to be all voiceover related, although I like to be in parallel. I mean, like you said, you're a good writer. You could write. I mean I organized events. I can organize events. We do a podcast together. How much fun to help other people do podcasts together? There's just a lot of things that I think that can happen if you really just put your mind to it.    Lau: I would love to see people really challenge themselves to take the time — if they're taking a lot of time -- they're fighting the good fight, they're fighting the battles, or they're upset or they're engaging in conversation, they're trying to work out the problems of having these innovations taking over their work, I get that. And to some degree it's necessary to do that, to process through what you're going through. But I'd also like to see people take the time that they're taking to do that to also innovate new ideas and really start to execute and implement those new ideas to see if they can be a viable source of joy and income for them. Because I guarantee you so many people are taking so much time to get angry or gossip or downtalk this or that. Number one, as you said, it's inevitable. We're not gonna stop it. Nor would we wanna stop it --   Anne: So much energy.   Lau: — necessarily, but the — yes. So much energy is going in the wrong direction.    Anne: Fighting (laughs) and trying to stop. And I think honestly -- like, I love that you said the word innovate. And I think that there are too few people that think about themselves as being innovative. Right? And we are, I mean, gosh, we are probably some of the most innovative, creative -- if you're a creative, you're innovative. That's the way I feel. Or you can be innovative if you're creative. Right? And that's where I think we need to stretch ourselves to grow ourselves as BOSSes. Think beyond the booth, think beyond the booth. How can you build your business? How can you grow your business? Doesn't necessarily have to always be within the confines of the booth. And innovate, I love that word. I think that should be like your challenge word for the rest of the year. Innovate. How can I innovate? Yeah.    Lau: How can I innovate? And there's a beautiful little piece of artwork that's in my office that I bought in my travels, and it says create the things you wish existed. And I love that. That's like one of the mottos or affirmations that I have found in my travels that really, every time I look at it, it inspires me to say, okay, I'm not gonna sit and dish(?) day and night about what I don't like and what's going wrong and why did I lose this, and how come I'm not making money at that? I'm gonna say, woo, hold on. Whoa Nellie, let's go to here and say I'm gonna do this. How can I make this work? How can I make this happen?    And that opens up the portal to a whole world inevitably that that door closes, that door opens, it opens up that whole world that if I didn't ask that question, if I didn't go down that path, none of that would've happened. If I stayed in this sort of negative vibe zone of just being really irritated that it didn't go the way I wanted it to go or I feel like something's been taken from me, or I've been violated in some way — I'm gonna empower myself to say, but wait a second, I've got all of these powerhouse sources within me that I can now grow that can take the place of that. That's how entrepreneurs really think in order to survive. Because not everything thrives and not everything lasts forever. And how they do the comeback. People like Cher and Madonna, how do they do the comeback every time?    Anne: Can I just say this? I know Madonna gets a lot of criticism. But look at a woman who knows how to pivot(laughs). She has lasted in the industry, right, for, 40 years. Right?    Lau: Right. And then great actors like Tom Hanks or whatever, how did they, how did they pivot when they physically change? They emotionally changed. How did they shift?    Anne: Meryl Streep, I'm just saying.   Lau: They're not gonna get the same roles.    Anne: Every new role, pivoting, evolving, still remaining relevant. I mean it's inspirational really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So, yeah. Yeah.    Lau: It's totally inspirational because I could sit there and I could say, I'm really upset though, Anne. I'm very sad and angry that I don't look 25 anymore. I'm gonna try like heck to look 25, and I can do that. But wouldn't it be better to say, but wait a second, I'm 40 or I'm 60, and I'm gonna bring out the intense beauty and wisdom I have now that I didn't absolutely have when I was 25.   Anne: Sarah Jessica Parker. Right? I'm going gray. I'm just --   Lau: That's what it is.    Anne: Right. Like just to continue to evolve and continue to innovate, be relevant. And really, I think BOSSes, it's something to just sit back and think when you're on vacation next time maybe, and you've got some downtime, and really think about how you may pivot as times change. And sometimes you just don't know what's gonna happen. But I like to present myself, well, if this happens, I will do this. Or maybe I'll start pursuing educating myself here, because I see things happening this way. And I think it's hard to be a visionary, but I always try to be. I do know that after working 20 some odd years in technologies, that I cannot stop it.    And I say it's over and over again. You might think I'm a broken record, but I cannot alone stop technology from happening ever. And it just became a thing. And I think once you realize and you kind of accept that, it helps you to pivot, it helps you to to be innovative. It helps you to think about how can I utilize what I've got in front of me, not just technology, but utilize what I have, who I am and what I have in front of me to grow and to become better and to maintain a successful business.   Lau: And be okay with change. Be okay with things not being the way you know them to be. That's tough. I always found that difficult ‘cause I loved things that were familiar to me and things I knew. Just be okay with the shift and change of the pivot. It's like you're going to something new. It's not going to be replicating what you did before. And if you're okay with that --   Anne: Roll with the bumps.    Lau: — you're a little bit bravery, you're more courageous. Roll with the bumps, 'cause innovation is not always success. Innovation is trying, you know what I mean? It's taking chances. It's taking calculated risks. It does not say that you're going to be successful because you're pivoting. It means you have the opportunity to be successful.    Anne: If you are riding bucking bronco -- I always say this 'cause I rode horses as a young girl, right? And as a young girl, this was the sitting trot. Okay? And any of you horse lovers out there that rode, being able to sit a trot and be able to let go of your hips and roll — because a horse's movements are not always perfectly smooth. It's hard to anticipate sometimes. Or if a horse spooks, you have to literally be able to roll, roll with the changes so that you don't get thrown off that horse. Right? So, I don't know, maybe --   Lau: Is that where we get roll with the punches?   Anne: — the punches aren't as hard. Right? Is if you resist against those punches, right, it's gonna hurt a whole lot more. Wow. Good stuff.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: Right, right. I love it. It's so true.    Anne: Now we know you can do it. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to imagine the world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals like we all are. As BOSSes giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that you want to see, a lot of what we just discussed today. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  When you're an voice actor, growing your business is not just about booking another job. It's a whole process of making your business work. That process is full of potential risks, big investments...and even bigger successes. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss making money, investing money back in your business, and fears surrounding money. In today's world, it's not enough to just be a great voice over talent. You also need to be a savvy businessperson. And that means understanding the basics of finance, including how to invest in your own business & make sure you're doing it intelligently. Money can be a scary topic to think about, and even scarier to talk about. You're not alone if you feel scared. It means that you care!   Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely and most wonderful VO BOSS co-host (laugh) Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne.   Anne: How are you this week?   Lau: Oh, fabulous.   Anne: Awesome.   Lau: As always. How are you? How are you?   Anne: I'm good, but you know what? I think it's time that we had a talk about money, and I know we spoke about raising rates before, but I think maybe it's because -- okay, so I admission, I downloaded Rocket Money for my iPhone, and I started to see like, where are my expenses going? What income's coming in? What am I paying on a monthly basis? And I'm just gonna start by saying that when you're trying to either cut your expenses -- and I wanted to start at least on that, if you find that you need to cut your expenses so that you can make a profit, right? Because, I mean, this is why we do VO, right? We are a business, we'd like to make a profit. It's good to find out the areas in which you're spending money. And it surprised me -- it, well, it didn't surprise me a whole lot because I've always said that a podcast is a labor of love. But I'm going to tell you that my discovery was that this podcast, with all the different things that I have going on and paying people to help me transcribe, edit, put out videos, do some social media stuff, cost me on average per year, just about $15,000 and that is not a small amount of money. (laugh) It's something, when you have a business, that's something you've gotta keep your eyes open and really look at and decide, is this worth my investment?   Lau: Yes. Absolutely. And that's, look, is that true of any business, not just our business? You really should be having some sort of a business model at the start, even if it's a skeletal one, having an idea of what's my growth? Where is my growth in the first three years, three to five years of my business? That's really the time, I mean, according to statistics, that most businesses do fail is within the first five years. So it is really important to say, okay, here's my basic model and here are the first year projects. Here are my second year projects. What do I think I'm going to gross? Like, where is my gross coming from? Where is my net? And just like basic financial language so that when you get to that powerhouse podcast, like what you have, you're not outta your mind going, what? How is that possible to invest that kind of money? Right?   Anne: Well, and I think it's something too though, and I spoke about this earlier this week on another webinar, how being an entrepreneur and having a, a voiceover business, it takes courage. It really does. It takes courage to get out there. And I know there's so many people that tend to get into this industry thinking, oh, I can work from home. All I have to do is go in my studio and record and I'll make my money. But nobody really thinks about the cycle of money. Right? Because there's an investment that has to happen. And I think our brains kind of shut that off when we first get started, because all we're thinking about is, oh, I just have to go in my studio and record, and I'll just make that money. But for every business to, I think, function successfully, there is money that you need to invest.   And it takes courage to invest money really takes courage to, especially if, let's say you're doing this full-time and you're just starting, and we're in that time period where maybe you're not comfortable yet or feel like you're making any kind of headway or profits (laugh) in the first few years. So Lau, I mean, you went even further than just a voice talent. I mean, you have a studio (laugh) like... and that is a considerable investment. And so what was it like when you were first investing in this like a physical studio, right? I mean, there's rent, there's (laugh), you know, there's equipment. What was it like for you when you first got involved in that in terms of was it scary?   Lau: Well, I'll be honest, as I try to be all the time, I was shitting bricks. I mean, it was terrifying. (laugh) I'm sorry, your engineer might have to take that one out, but listen, I think our audience can deal with that.   Anne: I think so too.   Lau: Yeah. I'll be honest with you, I was 40, I was not a young kid. I was already, you know, getting to middle-age, and I was offered a space -- this is how it happened for me. I was offered a space through my dad who was a big real estate owner, and he was an amazing entrepreneur unto himself in his own right. And he looked at me one day and he said, I have a space that's opening up, Lau. It's in a prime location. Location is everything, when you're looking at space, whether you're looking to live or own a business, I wanna give it to you, not give it to you, but I wanna offer it to you. And how do you feel about that?   And I remember exactly where I was. I was in a Dunkin Donuts, I know the exactly where it was, how I felt, and I could feel my heart, Anne, drop into my stomach as if you're on the edge of a cliff, like I could feel it like you're gonna jump out of a plane. And all I could say is in the most important times of my life with the biggest decisions, all I could say was yes. That doesn't mean I was like, knew what the hell I was doing. It just meant more of me wanted to do it than not wanna do it. And I knew, I knew in my heart it was now or never, that that was the window of time to do it. So taking on that level of financial investment, taking on prime territory space, all these things that we do need to think about is a leap of faith. A tremendous leap of faith.   Anne: Yes. I was just gonna say that, it's a tremendous leap of faith, and something that I think that -- you know, it's great to have a leap of faith and belief and a passion and a dream to follow it. But I think you also have to have the street smarts to do that in an intelligent way. Right? Because we're not gonna make investments if we don't have some money to back that up, of course. And before we can get to that place to where we might have money to invest, right, there might be places in our career where we can start to save a little money and put that away. And I've said this multiple times, that the most confident I was ever in my business was when I had a savings account, that I had enough money in there that I could make sure that I could pay the mortgage for the next three months, six months -- actually it was six months -- and I would feel okay if the work didn't come in, or if I needed to make an investment. That confidence led me to take the leap of faith and take the risks that was required for me to actually grow beyond where I was.   Because otherwise, I think we just sit here in our studio, and we sit there, and we try to get job after job and we audition, we audition, we audition. But where is the growth? I mean, you could audition your life away, right? But if you're not taking a leap of faith or a risk somewhere and making an investment -- and investment doesn't always have to be money. But I'm gonna say that for most of us, right, the money is like in your face, (laugh), you know what I mean? It's like, that's the kind of risky, scary stuff that it's like, oh no, I've gotta pay what? (laugh) And even if you're talking about a demo, right, or something, you're just getting started or a new microphone, it can be overwhelming, the investment, the money. And I think we're both here to say that, look, you're not alone if you're scared. Right? You're not-- or if you're nervous about that.   Lau: No, no. And you have to be, it's important to me because that level of fear, apprehension, that level of anxiety is also telling yourself that you care. You really care about what happens to you, what happens to the business, what happens to your money, what happens with safety and security. Like you're connected to that ,you care. You're not just saying, oh yeah, it'll be easy and fun. Let me just throw a hundred grand at it and let's see what happens. You're really connected to the outcomes in understanding that sacrifice is happening. You have to be ready to sacrifice to have a business, especially a brick and mortar business.   Anne: Oh gosh, yes.   Lau: Yeah. Like all of our wonderful restaurant friends during Covid really sacrificed and suffered. Well, so did we to some degree. Like we can have a home studio, which is amazing. But if you have any kind of brick and mortar, you have to be ready to sacrifice to keep that shingle up every single month. Every every month it has to be up. You can't just take six months off from it or a year off from paying your rent or your mortgage, or the heat, or I always say, you know, there's toilet paper, there's all sorts of ancillary services that you are providing if you have any kind of a brick and mortar that the public comes into. You have to have insurance. You have to make sure if God forbid, someone gets hurt, you're covered. You have to make sure that, you know, on and on it goes. Taxes are paid, property taxes, on and on it goes. So not to scare anyone, but to sort of keep it real, that even if you're in a home studio, someone is taking care of that home. Someone is paying that rental on that apartment. Someone is, and it's probably you. Right? So it is a level of sacrifice and understanding that I need to continue doing this in order to build this into a viable business, a real business that makes profit.   Anne: Yeah. And I think too, something that's very key is in terms of having the courage, right, to make investments, we're investing in a business that is very much a business about us. Right? It's very much a personal brand. This is about our voice. This is about us being able to perform a service with our voice, which is such a personal part of us. And if we see failure, I think it compounds it. It's not like, oh, I have a product here, a new formula. Right? But when it's our voice, and it's when it's all about us, and we're talking about making an investment in us and giving that money up to invest in us -- if it does not work, right, it affects us personally. And I think that is where a lot of the fear comes in for people coming into this industry.   And I'll tell you what, it doesn't go away. And I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but the bigger you get, right, the more you grow and the more you invest. And so I'm gonna say from the beginning it was just about, well, let me invest in my coaching, let me invest in my demos. Then it became, I've got to invest in, create an S Corp or an LLC or let me invest into a better studio now. And then also I have to invest in other things. Now I've gotten to the point where if I haven't grown every year, I'm looking at my growth. And if I'm not growing, I have to figure out, well what do I need to do to continue that growth? And we can talk about outsourcing, right? I pay people, gosh, for at least 10 years, I've been paying people to help me do things. And the team, I have a team and and that team again is another investment in my business and in my growth.   Lau: Yes. I mean, we can flower this out for hours, this program because we can't even get into the level of detail as you grow. Like we both have a business, roughly both of us are at like the 15 year mark. So can you stay static? Sure. Can you stay in a comfort zone? Absolutely. And I totally am okay with that and respect people who say, I'm capped, I'm at my ceiling, I'm happy with what I'm doing. I'm happy with my services, but I'm not. Like, I'm insatiable in the sense of wanting to provide more value, to educate more, to lift the level of income, to go from, as they say now in the ether, it's very big. Go from six figure to seven figure. How do you do that? Well, you do that through scaling. So everything that you're talking about, Anne, that we built our our businesses on, which is the person, the personality, the personalization, which is what we try to bring to our copy as talent. Right? How do we personalize a real person.   Also, there's a sacrifice in that too. And it's a very hard gray zone. How do I keep the personalization and keep the boutiqueness of my product and scale? Which is automization, which is about, you know, you're in the whole AI world. It's about like, how do I get into a place where things are being funneled and things are being structured in a system? It's no longer high touch. Like I don't have to be a part of every transaction. And then at the end of the day, it's not about me anymore; it's about the process or the product. And that's like to wrap your brain around that, when you start a business that's so personal and so high touch, is just a jump. It's a jump. It's a transition that a lot of us are working towards making. Keeping it personal. Keeping it real for us. Keeping it something we love and care about, but allowing our control to get out of the way so that other systems and controls can come in. And keep providing value at a much larger level.   Anne: Absolutely. And I think in terms of money, (laugh) I say money, and I don't want people to think --   Lau: I like how you said that.   Anne: -- that Anne, money, she's obsessed with money, that Anne. But here's the deal for me, like again, I always talk about wanting to grow my business. And so for me, it becomes a challenge. And I've always been a girl that takes on challenges. And so you have to feel comfortable with money, number one. And you have to feel comfortable investing money to make money. Right? And then to be accepting of that money. And again, that goes back to like, know you're worth, charge an appropriate fee so that you can make that money, so that you can reinvest in parts of your business to continue to grow, and take that opportunity to just embrace the thought of money (laugh) in abundance. Right? You're always talking about abundance, Lau. And again, I'm not gonna get too woo woo here, but I think manifesting that worth, you need to manifest that worth out to your potential clients so that they say, oh yeah, absolutely. My goodness, can I pay you more money to do what you're doing, (laugh)?   Lau: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.   Anne: That's what I want. And really that's how it comes. And I think that as entrepreneurs, you have to not just think of yourself as a voiceover artist. That's why I'm always saying, I'm not just a, a voiceover actor, a voiceover artist. I am an entrepreneur, and I am as much in tune with growing my business as I am with getting the next gig.   Lau: Yeah. No question about it. And you have to figure that out over time. You know, I became someone who became most comfortable -- here was talk about being in a discomfort zone. I was in a discomfort zone opening a business and putting everything on the line. But I figured out about myself, which ultimately became my brand, was I was much happier giving value to someone else and growing their career and seeing them flourish than for myself. And that's a pure irony 'cause I was an actor for many years. I was a voice talent for many years. But that was a level of sacrifice that I was willing to make because I had to really honestly identify what is your niche? What is your niche? What do you offer the best? What do you do the best? You can do 10 million things, but what do you do the best? And I figured out it was, I like leading I like creation. I'm the idea creator. And I like executing those more than I like doing the talent piece for myself. And that took me years to figure that out. That was a revelation. I almost felt guilty about that because I was in such an actor's mindset for so many years.   Anne: Very interesting.   Lau: And I thought, why would you give that up? Why would you stop doing that? I've had clients that say, why aren't you doing it? I'd say, okay. Because I was building a business that was giving this value to other people and that satisfied me. That satisfied me tremendously. And I figured out that that's okay. Like that's enough. And it, not only is it enough, but you've got a lot more to build.   Anne: That's like coaching and teaching for me. Right? I mean, again, it's something that -- and performing as well --but I think that inherent, I like to mentor, to inspire, to help people grow their businesses, to grow their skills. And that to me gives the joy a lot of the joy in my business. And yes, money. (laugh), again money. And I say that unabashedly and unashamedly because I need to pay the bills. I do, I need to pay the bills. But it's not the top game. It's, I've gotta have joy first and then that money will come. I believe that. Because if I'm following my business, if I'm following my gut and my intuition to how I wanna grow that business, I'm always chasing the joy and the passion. And if that happens to be in my business, then yes, I'm going to yield a profit.   Lau: Yeah. And I think it comes down to too is women in our industry and in the world at large, we're always figuring out, you know, what does value mean? What is our value in the world and in this industry? Value is many things. It's monetary, it's actual process related. It's sacrifice and charity. It's, it's a lot of things. But at the bottom line, we can't be afraid of the money, and contracts, and negotiation, and saying -- one of the more famous campaigns of L'Oreal that I always loved was get this, and I'm worth it. You know what I mean? That was a L'Oreal campaign, I thought as a kid, I was like, ooh, that makes me cringe. It's like so arrogant to say that, whatever. But as you get older and you've build your business, you have to say, here's what I provide. This is a value to you. And it's worth it. Right? There's a worth to it.   Anne: Absolutely. And it's also, there's purpose beyond profit. Right? And I think that if some people might take a look at things like with big businesses and today, the big companies out there and say that greed is at the base of all of it. But I'm going to say that for me, it's not greed, but I wanna say that as I prosper, right, again, I want to give back even more. It comes from a place of, well I personally like think that wealth is more than just money. It can be mindset, it can be time, it can be a lot of things. But as my business grows and my financial wealth grows, I am willing to donate. I'm willing to share that, be philanthropic. And so I think a lot of times when people criticize billionaires and millionaires and say it's an uneven system -- but I'll tell you, there's a lot of billionaires that do good as well as make a lot of money.   Lau: Sure. Absolutely. And I can tell you the stats now is that 99% of companies in our nation, all companies in our nation are considered small business. And I started to research what is small business? Small business is defined as 500 or less employees. So I felt so satisfied knowing I was a small business. But I was in the company of most businesses.   Anne: Yes, absolutely.   Lau: Most businesses are small. And so there's layers of this sacrifice that you're looking at to say, okay, well if I need to make money in order to survive, make it a viable business, in our industry would say tag, what's our tag -- one of the best financial advisors who I love so much, Susie Orman, used to say it's people first, then money, then things. And I love that. And I sort of live by that in my own right, because it's, for me, relationships. It's about value, it's about -- but right behind it is money because I can't keep doing that and sustaining that without financial benefit, nor can anyone. And when we go back to the origins of our businesses, Anne, and when we're starting our businesses, and you have --take your pot of gold, you take your savings.   I like you, was a really good saver. I'm very frugal. I'm not a super materialistic person. So I would tend to save the money. I would take that pot of gold, take that savings and say, I'm not spending anything. Even though it's scary, I'm not. I'm investing in something that I know is viable. And that to me is the first step of having a real business and saying, I have the belief system. I have the belief system based on research, homework, relationships, and knowledge of what my skillset is that this can work and this will work. And as they say, failure is not an option. It's not an option. Don't give yourself an out. Like keep yourself accountable. I oftentimes say I am the toughest, toughest BOSS I've ever worked for.   Anne: Oh my God. Me too. I'm a real witch.   Lau: Tough.   Anne: Yeah. (laugh). Yeah. I said, oh my God, that I do that. I'm a real -itch.   Lau: (laugh) that big. Right. What is she making me do today? Right. But that's that accountability, it's the internal accountability that I know creates sustainability. That's what it does.   Anne: And I think -- one thing I always like to bring up is I keep this in mind. Mind your own business, your own business. And that means don't let others influence you on what your business should look like, how much money you should be making, that kind of a thing. Because in reality it is your business. And honestly, nobody needs to know. And as a matter of fact, I'm always really quiet. Number one, I work a lot in the area of the market that has NDAs. And so I'm very low profile on any work that I'm doing or any gigs that I'm getting. And I don't even like to necessarily report.   Some people put money, oh, I made so much money this week and clients. And, and that for me is not the way to really talk about my business because I think in that way, some people think maybe it inspires some people, but I also think there's a lot of people who aren't talking about that, that it makes feel bad. They feel bad about that. And I don't want any of you BOSSes out there to feel bad about your business because it is your business. And that the same goes for, I'm gonna say this, whatever money you're making, I mean, yes, there are concerns I have with certain online casting sites, but I will never judge someone for running their business the way they see fit because it is your business.   Lau: Me too. And that's, of course, we all know that's the biggest, one of the bigger sources of conversation especially in the early to mid-range market of people who are in the market. It's like, should I do this? Should I be on a pay-to-play? Should I do that? And here's what I say, I simply say this as a coach, I'm putting my coaching hat on, saying Listen, you have a business that you are running, and you have to sit down with pen and paper, and you have to say, what am I reaching for this year? What are my goals and how am I going to get them? And you need to leave everyone out of that. The circle you've created are there for you to come back to, to connect to, to befriend, to help. But that's not the time. The time is your inner search. My inner search is, I want to do this. I need to do this. How am I going to do this? When you start listening to too many voices and too many points of view, you get really confused. And at the end of the day, you have to cook your dinner, you have to eat it, and you have to live with what it tasted like.   Anne: And there's nothing wrong with supplemental income while you're building your business. I mean, in any industry, we've all got our talents. And so especially for me coming from the corporate educational world into an entrepreneurship with my own business, that's night and day in terms of (laugh). Oh my gosh. Before I didn't have to worry about who's doing the accounting. I just show up, I show up to my job, but do my job. I get paid every two weeks. Now all of a sudden, that is so not what I'm doing with an entrepreneur business.   Lau: A lot of folks are coming in and they're under this delusion of like, how do I get what you have? How do I come in at the rate that you're at? I say, I said, okay, well you have to do like 30 years and you have to do this, this, and this. Like side hustle was my middle name when I -- before I opened. Before I opened my studio, I literally was what they call in in California, you know this term, a highway flyer. What I would do is I'd get in my car and I'd go to six different colleges. This was after graduate school. Six, count it, guys, six, 'cause I was adjunct. I was not a full-time. And I would teach two to three classes per college per semester. Count it. I was up to 15 classes one semester. Right?   Because I was adopting children. I had to have cash for that. I was starting a business. I had to have cash for that. And you have to have cash flow. It can't be tied up. You have to have flow ready to go. I like to say right now I loved it'cause I'm like a type A personality. So I loved all that stuff. But to the average person, that's crazy. They'd say, wait a second, how did you do all of that? And you were a performer and you were a director, and, and, and? I said, because I loved it and I had passion for it and I was working my way up the ladder.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Lau: So to speak. Do I wanna do that now? No, I don't because I'm at a different place now. But I can't come in saying, oh, how do I walk into this, Lau, and how do I get all the clients I want and be at six figures? And I said, well you gotta pay some dues. You have to pay some dues and it's not bad either. I had fun doing that. I loved it. I had a ball. I was like always testing. How much can I do? Where can I go?   Anne: Yeah. I'm right there with you. And I'm gonna say the challenge to me --   Lau: I miss it. (laugh)   Anne: -- that floors me. I mean that just makes me so excited. The challenge. Right? Rising up to the challenge. But it's not that I didn't curl up in a fetal ball (laugh) every once in a while and cry, just saying, guys. There have been times when it's frustrating and it's hard, and there's nobody there. Sometimes I'm like, why? Why do I do this? I can't even talk to anybody about it. Like I could be running into these issues. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've never experienced this before. How do I do this? And then there's no answers. And I'm like, (laugh), why is it so hard? It's so hard. But guys, most days I like to say I rise to the challenge, but I'm also gonna completely admit to you that yeah, sometimes I'll curl up in the fetal position and cry, but it's worth it.   Lau: But you know what? You know how you get out of that position? You know how you get out? 'Cause we all do that. When you email me and you say, Lau, what we just did made a difference.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And then I keep that. I keep every single one of those. I put 'em in my little e folder, I'll print a few out. And just when I'm like sobbing my eyes out thinking none of this is worth it, I look at that and I go, oh my God. But for this person, it literally changed their life. It literally changed the trajectory of how they think. To me, there's no better work than that.   Anne: I agree.   Lau: And, and I get to make money. And I get to make my own hours and my own structure, and yes, it'll drive you crazy 'cause most of us need structure and usually expect it from someone else. But it's so wonderful to have that level of creative and artistic freedom.   Anne: Agreed. Totally agree.   Lau: I'd rather work my butt off for myself. (laugh).   Anne: I can't ever work for somebody again. Pretty much. That's the way it works.   Lau: I can't either.   Anne: Except for voiceover 'cause it's one. And you know, get in, get out real quick. I mean I have some great clients that I keep coming back to, but yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Of course, of course. That doesn't mean you can't job in for an agency or job in for this. But that's not the same as running your own biz. When you run your own shop, you don't mind working really, really, really hard. 'cause you know you're building something that's a legacy for you.   Anne: Absolutely. Woo, what a great conversation. I'll tell you. So BOSSes, money, money, money, (laugh). Don't be afraid of it. Use it wisely. Invest it wisely so that you can grow your business. Lau and I certainly have the faith, we have the faith in all of you out there that this can be done. You can be successful. So don't be afraid of money. And also I'm gonna say that when you, BOSSes, you are BOSSes out there. And if you have a little bit of extra money, maybe you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart. If you know a nonprofit that you would like to do more to help them and to give back, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week, bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Video game acting is a unique art form that requires strong acting skills & an imaginative approach to storytelling. Anne is joined by special guests Dave Fennoy & Randall Ryan to discuss all things Game VO. Voice actors must bring their characters to life in a way that's authentic & impactful for players. Believe it or not, the average age for video game players is 40 years old, and these people have been playing games for 15+ years. These players are seeking a high level of story sophistication & depth of character when playing games. For a voice actor, Game VO recording is often a solitary and non-linear process due to logistics, but it still requires a deep understanding of the character you're playing, the world they inhabit, and their relationship to other characters. Invent as you go. Know your character, the world, and how your character would react in the moment. As with any genre, it's best not to overthink things too much before recording, but instead trust yourself as an actor and allow yourself to get creative during the session itself. And if you want to work with the pros, stay tuned for a unique opportunity to relax, recharge, and level up your game VO skills with Dave & Randall…   Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am pumped to level up my BOSS knowledge about Game VO, and I am so excited and honored to have the best in the industry, Dave Fennoy and Randall Ryan. Dave is a renowned voice actor and instructor based in LA with a vast portfolio of work in commercials, narration, TV promo, animation, and of course video games. He's best known for his character, Lee Everett in the Walking Dead Game, and has voiced characters for more than 500 games on some of the industry's biggest titles. And IMDB has named him one of the 20 best male game voices of all time.   Randall Ryan began his career as a musician in touring rock bands, and today is an award-winning composer and producer of gaming and commercial music scores. He co-founded Hamster Ball Studios back in 1995, where he's been directing talent and producing game audio for more than 20 years and has since contributed to numerous high profile video game titles. Also, co-host of Let's Talk Voiceover podcast and still performs the occasional live gig and thinks dogs make the best people. And I of course, think cats, but maybe that's for another podcast discussion, Randall, I'm not sure.   Randall: Who's your animal spirit podcast?   Anne: There you go. Guys, thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited to talk to you today,   Dave: Oh, it's our pleasure. Happy to be here.   Randall: Absolutely.   Anne: So what I love, BOSSes, is that I have both sides of the glass here today so that we can get a really comprehensive view of game VO as it exists today. So I'd like to start off with Randall and ask you as a casting director, can you give the BOSSes an idea of the game VO market as it stands today, let's say, compared to 20 years ago when you first started?   Randall: Well, yeah, that's almost an unfair comparison. I think what I would say is 20 years ago, games were just kind of coming into their own as even an art form. And now as I think a lot of people know, it is the gorilla of the industry. I mean, last year games sold more than film and music combined.   Anne: Wow.   Randall: Which is just amazing. And the other thing that I see that's very different from 20 years ago is 20 years ago, it was certainly the wild west when it came to voice acting. It was often like the person of the cubicle next to the developer, and they were just throwing some voices in. And if they hired actors, there was not a lot of, I don't know if I would use the word respect. It just wasn't really truly a real part of -- VO was an afterthought. And I think the difference is, is now is not only has gaming VO reached a really high place as art form, but the thing that I really see and, and it's the reason that I think you don't pay attention to game voice as your own peril if you're a voice actor, is it is changing every other genre.   Commercials are different because of gaming acting, and even for the people that don't know it that are writing copy, they've been growing up with games. They've been playing games, and they, and they also see other commercials that have been going to more gaming acting principles. And so even if they don't know that, that's where that creative is driving from -- bottom line is that is where that creative is driving from. So even if you're not going to be in games, I think it's really important as an actor to understand what it takes to be a VO game actor. It's kind of like, even if you're gonna be on film, you really need to understand theater. You need to understand all the principles of it. It's very much the same kind of thing. You may not wanna be a Broadway actor, but you don't study theater kind of at your own peril. I think it's kind of the same idea.   Anne: Well, probably if I had to count the amount of times you said acting --   Randall: Yeah. Well   Anne: Right, in that response? So acting is so very important. Not just I think to game view, but just to voiceover in general, especially now. And I'd like to ask you, Dave, let's talk a little bit about acting and your thoughts on why it's so important that voice talent today really have that acting prowess. Dave: You know, when we talk in the general world of voiceover, acting is important, but it's more important when you are looking at video games. We become a good actor in voiceover to be able to be ourselves or a character similar to ourselves for commercials and narration, or even TV promos. But we're looking for something wider range, a much wider range of who these characters are and with a different purpose. If you're doing TV promos or commercials, your job is to get people to buy a product, watch a TV show.   As an actor in a video game, your character drives the story forward. Whoever your character is, whatever it is they are doing, they are part of a story, not part of trying to sell you something or get you to do a particular act. And what the audience for video games is now, one, they're averaging about 40 years old, and they've been playing video games for 15 to 20 years. And they want an adult experience, and they don't mean adult like chicka chicka wow wow.   Dave: But they're looking for cinematic performances, which means more subtle, more real. Your performance has to fit into the world that these games are in. It's not about your voice, no matter what your voice sounds like. It's about can you let this character inhabit you and bring this character to life with just words on a page and a microphone? And there are various techniques that really are founded in acting principles that'll help you get there.   Randall: And, Anne, I'm gonna add one thing to what you said too. You are right that your primary job in a commercial is to, I guess you could say, is to sell a product. But really in essence, even as an actor, is that really your job? Your job is still to inhabit that scripts, and, and this is where I think some of the changes are coming from. And so in the same way that there are certain people who are spokespeople that the whole celebrity thing has happened, but a lot of times you're putting the celebrity in because people like them. They aren't really selling --   Dave: Because people like them and believe them.   Randall: And believe them. Absolutely. And so people are putting him in there not to actually sell. You know, did Matthew McConaughey sell Lincoln? He didn't. He drove around and said some talking. But he's playing in essence, even though it's him, he's playing this character. And I think even in commercial, to understand what that character is supposed to be that the writing is, you still have to be that character more now than you ever did before.   Dave: Which brings us back to your point, Randall, that learning to be a good video game actor or good actor will help you across the board in voiceover.   Anne: Yeah. I'm just gonna say, with my experience working with students for not just commercial, but a lot of the long format narration, like corporate narration and explainers and, and medical, I mean, even then there is a role. It may not be as dynamic or as long played out as, let's say, a video game, but there is still that acting that has to come into play. And I'm gonna talk about how important I think it is, especially now with the advancements in technology. But I wanted to ask you about the story. Okay, so the story for a video game is a lot different than, let's say, a story that's laid out in front of you.   So like a story, if you're assuming that you're gonna be in a commercial, you're gonna be selling a product, there's a character backstory you can develop. Like you want it to end up that the person agrees with you and says, yes, this is a great product for me. If it's corporate narration, it's kind of a nicely wrapped up little story about a corporate story about their brand. But with video games, it's ever changing, and it's not necessarily all laid out in front of you. And I was gonna also do the example of an audiobook where you've got the entire book and the story's laid out in front of you. But yet with a video game, do you know the entire story right away? Or is it something that develops?   Dave: Chances are you will never ever see the entire script. The video game industry is very secretive. We have all in the video game industry signed hundreds of NDAs, non-disclosure agreements, because they're very secretive. They don't want anybody to know or share what's going on in their game. So even when you audition, sometimes you have to sign an NDA before you can even do the audition or send it in with your audition. And you're gonna get a few lines of whoever this character is, maybe a little bit about the game itself, but never "this is what the entire storyline is and this is what happens." You will never see that script. If you're an actor in a movie, in a play, in a television show, you'll see the whole script. You'll know your character's arc. Being a character in a video game is much more like being who you are. You have certain tendencies, a world, a belief system. But when you walk out the door every day, you don't know what's gonna happen to you.   Anne: That's a very different skillset, I would think. Because each and every time you are getting that script or that little tiny portion of it, you're either developing the scene, the backstory, and the emotion. And so that's like constant, like I would think acting requirement for that just is through the roof .   Dave: Well, you developed the character in that audition. But when you get there, say you did five, maybe ten lines, now you've got 100, maybe 500 lines. And some of them may be paragraphs or monologues. And it's a matter of being in character and going with what is this character thinking, feeling, doing, being, who are they talking to in this particular moment in time?   Randall: Yep. God, there's so many things that that just brings to mind, but, well, what is Mark Dale's quote, a mutual friend of ours, he's a director in London. Yeah.   Dave: This is the exhaust of the acting engine.   Randall: That's one. And then he is got that little spy thing, which I think when you're talking about how do you deal with a video game character, that to me is like, yes, that's actually it.   Dave: One of the things Mark likes to talk about is the spy who is in another city, another country, another place using a different name, dressing different, pretending to be this other person. And his life or her life depends on how well they roll with the punches, roll with a different situation, somebody else asking them particular questions, and it's constant improvising in character.   Randall: Yes.   Anne: I love that. That's such a different way to look at that. Okay, so when you're talking about how to, I guess, evolve that character is sometimes the story -- well, I imagine you would know this -- developed as you also developed the character and then the story might change?   Dave: Well, you know, it's interesting. Uh, during the Walking Dead game, sometimes I would arrive at the studio, and the script got there 20 minutes before me. So yes, actually sometimes the writing is right there with you. So sometimes they wouldn't have been able to tell you anyway because certain things hadn't been written yet. Especially in something that's ongoing, episodic like that, but whether they know it or not, you as an actor are not going to see the entire script. You are gonna live this character moment by moment. So you are living in the world of, what am I reacting to? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I doing? Who am I talking to? And what's that relationship? Which we do as actors anyway, but now it's moment by moment.   Anne: Now Randall. So then in terms of directing a talent, right? What is that like for you? Because you also probably don't get the script right away either, and so you're directing and so what's that process like?   Randall: Well, I usually get it a little bit sooner than the actors, but you're right. It's not like I've been sitting there with it for months or weeks or anything like that. So everybody has got a different philosophy. I guess I'll tell you mine, but I think most directors I talk to will probably tell you something very similar to this. I think this is true of other genres, but video games, it almost has to be true. You cannot go in with this voice in your head or character in your head. Like, this person is going to be like this. It has to be a collaborative process, because you haven't, as a director, haven't had time to absorb all the stuff. But even if you did, even those occasions where you do, writers write, and there has to be a translation, and that actor is coming in with sometimes, you know, you're looking at Dave says 500, sometimes you're looking at maybe 500 lines for that character. You're looking at thousands of lines of script, and we're not gonna put people together, ensemble. And there are a lot of reasons for that. I, you know, I know that's a sticking point for a lot of people, but there are a lot of reasons that's probably not gonna happen anytime soon.   Long and the short of it is I have to trust the actor. So the actor and I both have to be working together to come up with this character. They come in with an idea, I come in with an idea, the writer comes with an idea. At some level check your ego at the door. We're gonna work this out as we go. And that's a lovely process when it works well because once it starts clicking, everybody's discovering, and that's where you get this magical performance that you couldn't have scripted it like that. But that also really derives more than anything else from actors who are comfortable with this, who aren't thrown by change, who are able to invent as they go.   And I think so much of that invention is that understanding what Dave said, where are you? What happened before you got here? What are you reacting to? How do you feel the other person? These are acting principles, but I think they're also just mindset principles that you have to get into as you're observing humanity and everything else. And some people do that extraordinarily well.   Dave: You know, one of the things I find working with students is generally they don't realize how much time and effort they need to spend in discovering everything about this character and everything about a particular scene that they're gonna do. I like to tell people, well, look, we've got words on a page or screen and a microphone, and we have to stay on mic and we have to read the words. An actor on stage, an actor on set has memorized their script. They are in costume. They have another actor that they're bouncing energy off of. There is blocking, they're gonna move from this place to this place. They know what the action is that they're going to do and they can do it. Once again, we're reading words on a page in front of a microphone.   But we have to bring the same level of acting to those words that are on a page through that microphone. And the only way to do that is to put yourself in the place of that actor, say on set, on scene.what am I wearing? You know, what does it look like around me? Am I sitting, am I standing? Am I walking? This person I'm talking to, what's my relationship with this person? Where are they in relationship to me? Or where are they when there's more of them in relationship to me? What just happened, I mean, in the last couple of seconds, that I'm saying or doing what I'm doing, what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling? It's that type of preparation and using your imagination that brings you to believable performances.   Anne: So Dave, when you're creating your character, before you're going into record -- and that might evolve, right, as you do that -- what sort of steps are you taking to envelop that character in a believable way for the script that you have?   Dave: Well, just the things I was talking about, you wanna take in the whole script. Too many people I think wanna start, oh, what are my lines? Oh, is my line, my line. Bullshit. Bullshit. My line, my line.   Dave: And we wanna start with the big picture. If there is a description of what the game is, take that in. Video games are very much like movies. As a matter of fact, they're like 70-hour movies. And whatever genre you can think of, including romcom, for a movie, there is an analogous one in video game. So where does this game live? What kind of world does it live in? Then who is your character? And as much information as they give you, take that all in. Now I realize sometimes it's three paragraphs of information about your character and then five lines. You can't fit everything about that character into those lines. But you can find how this character would react in this situation. What is their worldview? Create that. One of the things I suggest to people from time to time is before you read the lines, read the character description, and then ad lib the character, talking about himself based on those descriptions. He was born here, his parents died, he was kidnapped, he was made a slave, he met a wizard. Tell your story, but without reading it; just off the cuff, improvise it based on the few things that are said there before you get into the script. And once you're in the script, you gotta pay attention to all the alternate lines besides your own and the stage direction. I'm amazed how often actors will -- they'll get their lines, but the alternate lines and stage directions they ignore. All of those are clues that you've, you've gotta take in.   Anne: Yeah. I say actually to my students that even for like something that may seem dry or boring like a corporate narration, the words are there for a reason. Somebody was paid to write those words, and every word has to have a meaning. And I think that there's so many people that just rush in to their studios, and like you were saying, just line by line, and they don't take in the whole story or try to imagine the story, that moment before. There's a moment before even I think in every piece of voiceover copy, there's a moment before. And I think if you can take the time, right, to develop that story, it will help. Let's talk a little bit about -- because I know you've got something happening, Dave, at Voiceover Atlanta, an efforts class, I think, or an X-session.   Dave: Yeah.   Anne: Let's talk about maybe not necessarily efforts, but body and how important your body is to be able to, I guess, express better acting.   Dave: Your body informs your voice. Once again, it doesn't start here. It starts with all of this. It starts with the look on your face. It starts with your honest reaction, your honest thinking, and those thoughts, those feelings will trigger a physicality that makes what you're saying come out in a certain way. Randall had mentioned something, we are translating the written word into the spoken word. They are not the same thing. I actually go so far as to tell myself, look, I'm not that into the words. They're not the most important thing. If you're crying or screaming, and there's a dialogue that's going on through it, and I can't quite understand what you're saying, for me, that's okay. Because what I really wanna understand is what this character's going through in this particular time. Now, if it's something very vital that has to be said, that leads to something else, yeah, we'll want to hear.   But voiceover 101, you wanna sound like you're smiling. What do you do? Put a smile on your face. You wanna sound like you're a little more important? Stand up just a little bit straighter and suddenly there it is. You wanna seem like you're a little bit more tired or something? Let your body relax, and there it is. How a character with a limp, or with a hunchback, or with a injury to their face, how they're gonna express themselves, or they're of a certain age and, and the voice has gotten tired from smoking and drinking alcohol -- these are what we're trying to find.   A lot of people will say, well, I'm putting on this voice, but why? There's nothing wrong with creating a voice, but why? How does this voice serve the character? What is it about this character that that voice is there? So your physicality, if you're somebody, maybe your head's off a little side from an old injury, or maybe you're that guy that's really tough and you're always got your chest out and ready for action. That's what changes your voice. Not something that you're putting on, but something that you allow to happen based on so many other things: your thought, your feeling, your action, your relationship and who you are, what your natural physicality or the natural physicality of that character is.   Randall: When you're talking about the body and you're talking about the voice -- I'll pull all three of these together, what I think at least is kind of simply -- you are acting in your emotions have nothing to do with your character voice. That voice that you put on is a filter. And where people get confused -- because historically this would happen. That voice that you're doing is somehow your character, and then that becomes caricature. That's not true. That voice is a filter. And when you talk about body parts, all the things that Dave just talked about, you could be the age you're at, and if you've got a hip injury, or you've got a limp, or you've got a lung issue, it's gonna sound a certain way.   So all you're doing after that with that voice is, it's a filter. If it's a guitar, it's, you're just turning the overdrive up a little bit on the distortion. But what you play is still gonna be what you play. It might make you play a little bit differently,'cause you got a little more sustain if we're gonna use the guitar thing. But ultimately you're gonna play what you play. And that's, I think the mental process it has to be. You are acting that emotion, you are acting that injury, you're acting that malady, you're acting that physical trait that you have. And then if it calls for it, change your voice placement, change your register, change your nasality, you know, all of that stuff.   Anne: Now Randall, you mentioned something earlier that I wanted to ask you, about when you're recording the characters, they're not typically done in ensemble format, right?   Randall: Right.   Anne: And typically the talent is recording from their studio or in a studio with you. Right?   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Why is that? Why is there not -- because I would think if you're bouncing off other characters it might --   Randall: Yes, there would be. And sometimes you get that opportunity, but there are two reasons really. One, you have non-linear stories. In a movie and a TV and something of that nature, you have a beginning and an end. So it actually becomes very easy to say, well, we'll put these actors together -- we'll say a movie more than a tv. 'cause I think for TV set, you know, everybody shows up the same time. But we know we're gonna need you on these days 'cause you get at all your scenes that these people and they're gonna need you on these other days. When you have 50 characters that are all speaking. And when you have interactions with any and all of them, the time to actually do that, the logistic issue to do that is almost impossible. And that's one of your absolute biggest reasons right there. When it really comes down to logistics, if I'm going to have Dave come in and do 500 lines, do 1000 lines, and in those lines he's got soliloquy lines, he's got 20 that are interacting with this one person, you just can't really pull that together in the same way. And the other thing in a movie that's different than, than a video game is there's all this back end -- of course movies are more than just about filming, about having the actors there. But that is so much of a focus, where in the game there's all this other stuff you have to construct. You know, think about a movie. If you actually had to construct the world in which you live, now make it non-linear, now make it so that there're branching storylines, or that if you go this way this happens, it actually becomes logistically almost impossible to do.   Anne: That makes a lot of sense. Now, in terms of, let's say the flow of what you do as a director, once you cast something, is it mostly just when the actors available they record their lines? I mean there's gotta be so many things, I would think that the story's gotta be there, right? The game writers have to have the story written. and then you have to get all of the characters to record their lines. And then -- so tell me a little bit about that process.   Randall: Well, that's a big thing. I'll try to make it kind of short. So one of the things you really have to do is at some point you gotta lock the script down. And trust me, that can sometimes be an issue. But you just do, you have to lock the script down, and you have to get everything that you're going to get. Of course there has to be some when the actor's available, if I, if an actor not available for a week 'cause they're on set doing something else, of course you can't use 'emthen. But really that becomes the puzzle piece that comes on this end of scheduling everybody. Dave, I've got this time on Monday and Tuesday. I don't have anything till Thursday. Do any of those fit with you? Bam. You lock it down, you, you do that.   The other thing that is also different about games that -- I mean as budgets go up, maybe this will change, but at least for now, again, some of it is logistics and some of it is budget -- I cast Dave to do a role. By the way, when Dave shows up, sometimes he knows ahead of time, but a lot of times it's like, hey, there're probably gonna be a couple more, just letting you know. And he shows up and because you've got soldier numbers 1 through 10 and townsperson number 1 through 20, it's like, Dave, can you pick up a townsperson? Can you pick up a soldier? By the way, they can't sound like the character that you're actually in here to do. You know? So that's another thing that happens all the time.   Anne: Yeah. And I always like for talent to understand what happens like outside of their little bubble of just voicing something. And so that's why I think it's wonderful to have the two of you there, 'cause it can kind of see how you really have to work together in order to produce and do something successfully together. So it's good to know like what you have to do as a producer or director. And of course the talent has to really, I think, be able to perform pretty much on demand, is what I'm thinking. That's what it's sounding like to me.   Dave: Exactly pretty much on demand. . And it's interesting from my perspective, whether I'm in my home studio or I go into another studio, there will be a producer there, the writer might be there, the director might be there. And I, I think the director's job is, the director's the person who knows how to communicate with actors. The writer may be able to tell you, well this is what's going on and so forth. But they have a tendency to keep talking too much, and they're more invested than they need to be to get the performance you want, whereas the director is your guide. When you are at home doing your audition, you are your own director. You have to make choices. But when you arrive on your gig or the gig arrives at your house, and you're on camera there, now you have somebody to take some of that weight off. And maybe they've listened to your audition and said, well you know, you made a good acting here, but that was the wrong choice. What actually is happening is this, and our job as actors is to be able to create the thought, feeling, attitude, movement of a character, and if it's something different, it's up to us to just make it different.   Anne: I love that you said that cause there's so many people I know that seem to be afraid of making that decision whether it's right or wrong and committing to the acting, because they don't necessarily know what's happening and so therefore they just play it safe.   Dave: And beyond playing it safe, they don't really know. They haven't made a definite decision. And the person who is listening to that audition come in, it doesn't say anything to them. You're probably going to do better making wrong strong choices than no choices.   Randall: Absolutely. Or safe choices. Absolutely.   Anne: I love that. I love that. I got so excited that you said, 'cause I was just like totally connecting with that. Let's talk a little bit about talent that might wanna get into video game voiceover and maybe the demo, which I think is probably an important part of helping them maybe get their foot in the door. Let's talk about what's important in a game demo.   Dave: It's interesting. We were talking about this with each other just the other day. I always liken video game acting --I always tell my students, look, I want you to think of yourself as a character actor. When we think about character actors, and even movie stars who started as character actors, there's something about them, the way they speak, the rhythm of it, their look that we have a reaction to, an emotional reaction to. And every one of us has some of that. You may not feel like you are ABC to yourself, but people who encounter you, that's what they see. So we wanna find out who you are, and now we wanna display that character, that you, the truth of you in a variety of characters from a variety of times in a variety of places with a variety of points of view. So we might be in space, we might be medieval, we might be futuristic, we might be post-apocalyptic, we may be a doctor, a lawyer, a soldier, a wizard, a swordsman, a thief. We wanna bring all these characters with dissimilar energies, dissimilar worlds together to demonstrate all the things that you can do.   Randall: Yeah. Be authentic first. I mean, I like to listen to a demo. I have a 1 and a 1A. 1 is be authentic. That has to be it. I have to stop listening to you as an actor 'cause there's time for that after the demo's done. When I hear a snippet, whatever your 12 seconds or whatever the time is with that character, ideally, and I know you, you can't always do this, but ideally when that clip stops, you're like, no, wait, what happens? 'Cause you got invested in it, you know? And then the second thing is a certain amount of versatility. Now, I think unfortunately to most people, versatility they think means different voices. And it is true that that is part of it. There's no question that you have to be able to demonst --'cause if there're gonna be three characters in a game, I can't hear the same voice. So yes, you do have to be able to learn to change your register, to change your voice placement, to change accents, to do all this other kind of stuff.   But ultimately it really comes out of your attitude difference and your emotional difference. And being -- if you're hyped, if you are just in this manic place, your voice is just gonna sound different than if you are at the bottom of the well depressed, even being the same person. So find those things, not just the emotions of them, but what does your voice do when it does that? How are you delivering things in a different way when you find that? And that's where you get all this variance and you hear different people out of it. So that is definitely 1A. If you, if you're a one trick pony, if it's a good trick, you might get booked a lot, but you're just gonna up your game and up your bookings the more legitimate tricks you can show. I probably shouldn't use the word trick. The more legitimate shades of yourself that you can show, the more legitimate shades of what you do, the better it's gonna play for you.   Dave: And let me just say this, there are people who can do lots and lots of accents, lots and lots of different voices, and sometimes that can kind of hurt you on your demo. If you've done so many different things that they don't come away with a sense of who you are.   Randall: Right.   Dave: You might not remember the name of so-and-so who did all these voices. None of them were the same. They may have all been really good, but you don't remember who this person is.   Randall: Right.   Dave: So I always say, look, start with who you are and keep coming back to who you are. You may have some in different accents and different voices, but start with you and keep coming back to you.   Randall: Yep. I agree.   Anne: So is there a time period -- I know that I work with so many students that are new, and they always wanna know, well, how long will I have to study? Or how long will I have to do this before I can create a demo? If you had to give your experience, how long would it take for someone to -- I don't even wanna think that it's all about the demo because really it's about the acting. Right? And it's about who you are as a voice actor. How long should a student expect to study acting in video game VO? Is it the same for everybody? Is there a length of time that you think, oh, after five years, this will be great? Or after one year, what do you guys think?   Randall: Absolutely depends on the person. I think mentally, if you're talking to people who are getting into the business or are wanting to get into, even just, I've been doing commercial, I wanna do video games. Even if it's that, so somebody who has been working. I think if you mentally think two years of hard work, that's a good baseline. Now there are gonna be people who have all the tools that they need, and in six months they're just rocking and rolling. There are gonna be people that after two years, they're just now starting to figure it out. And it's gonna take 'em five. How do you know? But I think you need to be mentally prepared. Kinda like if you start a business up, I think this is gonna take me a $100,000 in a year. Double it or triple it and then you're probably safe. I think it's the same thing.   Dave: And in so many ways, I think people getting into voiceover and not just for video games or animation, but for the various genre, each of the genres calls for something a little different. There are some rules of the road for all of them. I just think when you get to video games especially, from the smallest whisper to the loudest shout, from characters who very much might be like the disc jockey you used to be, or to the used car salesman that maybe you remember -- you're gonna see all those kinds of characters. If you come with some characters, with some idea of playing like you were when you were a kid, when you were playing cops or robbers or spaceman and aliens -- whatever it was, you weren't judging yourself. You were having a good time. And you put yourself completely into it.   One of the big things I see with a lot of grown up people who now suddenly wanna do this, or maybe they've wanted to do it for a long time, but there's a timidity. Oh, I'm a little, I'm a little scared. I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't want anybody to think this is silly or -- you gotta give yourself to it and that holds people back. Your ability to read can hold you back. Because especially in video games and voiceover in general, we are reading in the moment. We've gotta take the words off the page and connect them to somebody. So I have run into people who've come to me, not often, but a couple people, I've said, look, you don't need me. You've got this. Get your demo done, you can do it with me or somebody else. But you're ready. There's some other people I've worked with for a long time, and I see improvement, but it's slow. But if that's where you really want to go, and you are getting better and getting better, stay on the road.   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Yeah. It's a journey. It's a journey. So you guys have an exciting event coming up at the end of April I saw for Game VO. Tell us a little bit about that.   Randall: Well, this really came out of an outgrowth of Dave and I; we talk a lot. We've known each other for a long time. And one of the things that we have not seen along the way is what I would call a throughput. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact, there's some wonderful things to do this, but you go to most conferences or retreats or whatever you want to call them, and there's not a real throughput. You get the promo person, you got the commercial person. And there's, there's some real value to that, you know, especially if you're working in multiple genres. But what we don't see anybody doing is, okay, we're gonna strip this down to the basics and take you through -- you know, you don't get to cherry pick. We're gonna take you through this whole thing. Okay. You went to drama school and you're like, and you wanna roll your eyes? I don't know about going back to drama school.   I had a student, I shouldn't even call him a student, an extremely well known voice actor who took one of my recent two-day workshops. And when I saw his name on there, I was like, really? Well, that's interesting. I wonder why he's doing this. And you know, the thing that was really interesting is there was a technique that really truly went back to original acting. And this is a guy who's a drama school, totally trained, accredited, all this other kind of stuff. He's done so much other stuff that he literally had -- now it was easy to getting back in there, but he had forgotten to some degree like, no, you have to start here. He's got all these voices that he can do. He's a wonderful actor. You know, if you had mentioned your name, maybe he'd be like, really? Well that's the point. Somebody like that even didn't have that beginning. So all this throughput we have not seen. And so the idea that we wanna do is take people all the way through what it takes to really truly be a video game voice actor, from let's start with basics of acting all the way up to we're gonna do sessions, and you can't skip the steps along the way. You've gotta do this to this, to this, to this.   Dave: I have to echo the same thing, that I've worked with students who have been on camera, on stage. And for them, the world of voice acting is completely different. And because they're used to memorization, and being in costume, and having another actor that they're working with, they are lost all too often when it's words on a page and a microphone. And sometimes it's just coming from this genre to that genre. If you're doing promos, TV promos, you can have a style. If you're a narrator, you can have a style. If you're doing commercials, you can have a style and work and do very well. With video games, style isn't gonna carry you but so far. You have to be an actor.   Randall: It's a bigger thing. You know, it's, it's actually a bigger thing. You can't have a style.   Dave: Style can be this big, but if you're gonna be an actor --   Randall: No, that's true. It's a range. It's not just a style, it's a range.   Dave: Yeah. And learning how to connect to that, to your range.   Anne: And now, so when is this event and how long is this event?   Dave: Well, it's called Game VO Mexico 2023. It is happening in Akamal, Mexico. That's on the Yucatan Peninsula. And it's the 27th through the 30th of April.   Anne: Okay. Three days.   Randall: Three days.   Dave: Three days.   Anne: All right. Three days of intensive classes, sessions?   Dave: Intensive classes, sessions, and it's gonna be fun. And in one of the most beautiful places in the world. We were doing some location scouting a couple of months ago. I was down there with Randall, and we went to a restaurant, and that night they said, oh, come back and watch the sea turtles make their little baby walk to the sea. It's those kinds of --there's iguanas around and toucans. You'll hear the monkeys in the tree. I mean, it's, it's an amazing place and it's very much outside of your norm. I don't know about you, but have you ever been someplace, you got outside of your house, outside of your city, a different place, and suddenly you could think differently?   Anne: Oh yeah. It'll change your life.   Dave: This is gonna be one of those places, one of those events that you'll be able to shed some things that have been holding you back and embrace some things that are gonna carry you forward.   Anne: I love it. So end of April, where can people find out more information and sign up for this?   Randall: Well, it's the website. It's gamevomexico.com. So just like it sounds.   Dave: Gamevomexico.com.   Anne: All right. Awesome. And for the BOSSes out there, you guys are going to give us a special coupon?   Randall: That is correct.   Anne: Just for the BOSSes. So if you guys want to, you are definitely getting a discount.   Randall: It's a $500 discount. So it's, it's basically 10%. It's a sizable discount.   Anne: That's awesome. Woo. So a $500 discount, you guys can go to that website and enter a coupon code, VO BOSS, to get that discount. That's amazing. So gamevomexico.com. Coupon code VO BOSS to get that discount. And how can BOSSes get in touch with either one of you? Let's say Dave, if they wanna get training?   Dave: Oh, I'm so easy to find, they can email me at davefennoy@mac.com. They can go to my website, davefennoy.com and get in touch with me, and they can check me out every Wednesday at 6:00 PM Pacific for Ask Dave Fennoy anything. I promise I will talk about this.   Randall: This is true.   Anne: Yay. And Randall, what about you? How can people get in touch with you?   Randall: The two easiest places, and I say easy because I've got the long email addresses. My company, what I do the direction through, is Hamster Ball Studios. So it's Randall, randall@hamsterballstudios.com. But on the other side, the stuff that I do as far as teaching and coaching and consulting, I probably shouldn't say coaching 'cause I don't, you know, Dave's the one on one guy. I'm more big macro, big picture, hey, wow, dude. But it's randall@thevoicedirector.world.   Anne: Awesome. Thank you, guys, so very much. This was so informative, so wonderful, and we so appreciate that discount. BOSSes, check that out. Gamevomexico.com. Use that code of VO BOSS, get yourself a discount. BOSSes, I want to ask you a question. Do you have a local nonprofit that is close to your heart? Did you ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can. And visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like us three today. Thank you, guys ,so much again, find out more at ipdtl.com. Everyone, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Randall: Take care, Anne.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Your vocal brand is the key to getting noticed in this world of noise. It's much more than just the sound of your voice. It's who you are, what you believe in and what matters to you. Anne & Lau discuss what goes into a vocal brand & what you can do to develop yours. Vocal branding is all about uncovering your uniqueness in order to let it shine through in every project you take on. Take time to get to know yourself. What matters to you? Why are you a voice actor? A voice is like a fingerprint: no two are exactly alike. Once you've figured out what makes your vocal brand stand out, it's time to learn how to harness it. The key here is authenticity. And it's not just what you say—it's how you say it. Figuring out how to combine all these elements into one cohesive brand can seem overwhelming, but don't worry! Anne & Lau are here to show you how it's done.    Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to the VO BOSS superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Yay.   Lau: Yay. Hey Anne.   Anne: Hey, Lau.   Lau: Love being back as always. Love it.   Anne: Superpowers, superpowers. I love that we named our series Superpowers.   Lau: Because we have so many of them.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: Like we can't even uncover, identify all of them.   Anne: Business superpowers. And I think that our superpowers, it's in all aspects of our business, right? So including our superpowers to be able to stand out from the crowd. And to be unique. All businesses have competition. And I know that people talk about VO -- VO is so cool because there's competition like technically speaking, but not really, because every single one of us has such a unique product. And I think it's important that we know how to bring out that unique product and not just know how to bring that out. Also, to be able to market that. And that goes right into our brand. And so a lot of what I do with students is I will tell them that I am going to not only brand them in terms of what genre should I be in, but vocally brand them, right? And that really is something that's not just a visual brand on a website, but something that it is absolutely related to their product. Right? A vocal branding.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: So what does vocal branding mean to you, Lau?   Lau: Oh gosh. It's such a big umbrella. It really is. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind, Anne, is just having the knowledge of knowing as a coach, that no one in the world has the voice you have. Everyone has a unique sound, distinctively unique sound. Okay? They may have similar qualities, but they're distinctively unique. So number one, uncovering that uniqueness in your voice through specific qualities that you could maybe even poll, like pull your group, poll your team, poll your family and say, give me qualities that describe my voice. Because when I'm gonna look at specs of a breakdown for an audition, the client's gonna break it down for you. they're gonna give you vocal qualities. So that's one of the big ones I feel that really distinguishes your vocal branding from someone else's and says, oh, I know that. That's Deb. That's Susan.   Anne: Oh, I know that voice.   Lau: Yeah, I know that voice.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting to me is I find that there's a lot of people who come to me who will try to perform and sound like they think everybody wants them to sound like, and not enough about sounding like themselves. Because I truly believe, and I say this all the time, I truly believe that we are human. We wanna connect. We want to understand who you are. And that comes through, that shines through in your voice, that very unique voice. So unless you're doing a soundalike for someone, or even a character where you're trying to sound a particular way, I think that your vocal brand needs to be brought right up there, front and center, because I think that's what truly makes you unique. And it brings the acting out.   So it's not about the sound, right? It's about how do I bring the acting out? And that becomes a vocal brand for you because the personality is intermixed. I think personality has a lot to do with creating a unique vocal sound. Right? Your personality, your, your heart, your essence. I don't know, Lau, you always have great words for this. What would you say your ethos, I dunno, the ethos of your vocal branding?   Lau: The ethos of your vocal branding.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: It's like the height. Like what is the apex of what someone is thinking about when they think about you? It's like they think about you with this word, with this adjective, with this action verb. Your name comes up. That's like, to me, that's the zenith of it all, is like, when they think of this, Anne Ganguzza comes up. When they think of that, this one comes up. And that to me is amazing. And in no way should that feel limiting to people. Like, oh, does that mean that's all I can do? Or that's all they think of me as. Well, they think of you as, as a product, as an incredible product that has this vocal branding. And that's the first and foremost that you want them to think about. You don't want them to be confused. You never want your audience to be confused. You always want them to think of you for doing the best thing. And with your vocal quality as a vocal talent, they wanna know you as something, whatever that something is.   Anne: And then whatever that something is, learn how to define that also in words because that words can translate to words on a page or words in an email that you are submitting with a demo to an agent, something that sets you apart. And it can also be different unique aspects of your voice. Like let's say an accent, right? A tone, if you have that really beautiful bass, baritone or that bright mom sound or whatever that might be. Bilingual, right? Can you sing? Like, those are all vocal qualities that can really help distinguish you from the competition. And so know what those vocal qualities are and be ready to be able to explain them to a potential client. Also showcase them. I think it's so important that these vocal brandings are basically shown or in a demo, right? So that people can hear that vocal quality. And if you have a good producer, they're going to know that and they're gonna know how to bring those vocal qualities out.   Lau: And you know, it's having a visual now of like a performer, a theater actor, a professional speaker who's in front of a crowd live, they're in front of a crowd. What's the first and foremost thing we see visually is their visual branding. So that might be a costume or wardrobe or particular visuals that we're getting on camera or on a stage. Right? Well, that's a big part of the kinds of roles they play, but that's not everything. We have to know what's underneath it. We have to know what's the internal process that they're using to bring out their personality, their persona, their humanity, the thing that we connect to. But that covering, so to speak, that like coming in and saying, I can sound like this. I can put this on, is great to have, it's just not the whole job. It's not the whole thing. You have to be able to do the internal work to really have the authentic connections to the process and then put the wardrobe on it, and then put the schmaltz as we say on it, the frosting on it. Right? But you have to have the cake first. You can't just have the frosting, even though we'd like to, you gotta build a cake first.   Anne: I'm always astounded when I work with different voices. Now, there are some voices who tonally, right, will have varying degrees of range tonally. But sometimes I think when students are just beginning, they think that that's what range is all about. And I beg to differ because range is not just a tone or I have a high pitch, I have a low pitch. I think really range for an artist an artist really comprises the tone mixed with the personality, mixed with the performance, mixed with the acting.   And so whenever people say, I want range in my demo, right, I will actually focus more on the acting first, rather than, oh, can you pitch your voice up? Can you pitch your voice down? It's so hard for people to do that because then they get so consumed with, I'm going to sound very low, or maybe I'm just gonna sound very high and I'll just do this for the rest of the copy. And so Lau, I know you've had lots of experience working with students do that.   Lau: Oh, oh my goodness, ton. And it's that what I call the over management, the maneuvering, every M word you can think of, the manipulation of sound, which of course, technically if you're a singer, if you're a rapper, if you're a speaker, if you're a vocalist of any kind, we do have to learn mechanics. We have to have a vocabulary that we can rely upon that helps with repeatability so that we can repeat deliveries for sure. But that still does not do that internalized work of understanding the language, the syntax, the cadence, the rhythm, all of that, which I believe is --   Anne: The story.   Lau: Yes. The story.   Anne: The story.   Lau: And whether you are religious or not, religious is irrelevant. There's a spirituality, there's something that we can't quite put our finger on that is larger than us. It's bigger than us that we can connect to, which creates a universal internal connection to your audience that they can't put their finger on either. It's just, it's real, it's authentic. Our friend Jim from Lotas talks about that all the time, authenticity. What is authenticity? What is that honest connectedness that we have? I'd like to think it's partly psychological, but it's also partly from the heart and the soul and the gut.   Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.   Lau: Right?   Anne: And that's where people, if they're nervous about synthetic voices, this is where we've got them .   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: If you can really stand true to your authenticity and bring that out in your acting and in your voice, then that is what is going to surpass any synthetic voice out there. And know that your connection and your vocal brand has very much a place in voiceover now and for the future, absolutely. And I say this after, gosh, close to 40 episodes, talking to people in synthetic voices, knowing that there is a place for that. But there's very much a place for our unique vocal brand and our unique, authentic brand, authentic voice.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And it's hard, if not impossible, to decipher exactly what it is. It's like when we see a brilliant performance, we hear a brilliant dissertation, we hear something rhetorical that moves us -- it's hard to completely put into words why we are moved to a call to action. Why we are changed, why we are cathartically shifted in a way. It's that beautiful recipe and combination of the visuals, the vocals, the internals, the connectedness to the audience that create that concoction that is so unique, that becomes persona. I mean, that's persona personified , as they say. It's, it's, that's your brand. Like your brand is how do I move you? How do I shift you?   Anne: Yeah. And I think it's one of the hardest things for people first entering into the industry to really accept and recognize. I know, I can't tell you the amount of people who don't really like the sound of their voice. They're true voice--   Lau: But yet they wanna make a living at it .   Anne: And they wanna make a living at it. And yet they're in voiceover and they wanna pursue voiceover because they think what everybody wants to buy is this performed sound that they have heard. I think we're such a product of our experience in listening for years. Right? When voiceover first came onto the scene, it was very much an announcer style. It was very much a, a unique style. And so hearing that, depending on your age, really, this does depend on your age. Kim Herdon actually in one of my workshops mentioned it too. And I thought, yeah, when you are being directed, a lot of times it is a factor how old the person is that is directing you. Because what they hear in their ears as a conversational or authentic read might differ from let's say, somebody that is a millennial that might be directing you.   And so I think no matter who's directing you, if you can bring forth the authenticity and your own unique style, I think that that is the place to absolutely start. And if you can bring that out, I feel like that's, you're at the height of your acting. It's kind of like, how many times have we watched a B movie? And it's so obvious, right, that the actors are maybe not as sincere or maybe they're not connecting with the audience. And so for those of you that are trying to figure out what your sound is, stop because it's not a sound. It's not a sound.   Lau: No, no, it's not. It's the land, what I call the land like how it lands on someone. How is it received? How is it thought of that's the most important? And the second is like great acting like Meisner exercises, like the second I'm thinking about myself -- which is natural. A lot of us will lose focus at times, think about ourself. But that's a really good gauge for us as business owners, as BOSSes, as delivery folks doing vocal delivery. The second I'm thinking about myself is the second I've lost contact with the other, the other.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: Whoever that is. It just be an admin. It could be an executive assistant, it could be whatever. But if I lose that level of focus, not only did I lose the information of what they're giving to me, but I also lost the authentic response of how what I'm saying and doing is landing on them.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: And then I don't have authentic queuing anymore. I lost my queuing ability. Anne: Yeah. And I think even when we're talking about niches -- again, I always talk about people starting out here and you're trying to figure out where you belong in the industry. Like, where do I fit? I think no matter what niche you're pursuing, commercial, corporate, explainer, promo, there is absolutely in every niche, there is a unique you in that. Even if, let's say promos, right? And they sound announcery. right? And oh, great, I get to be an announcer. Sure. But you've still got a whole lot of personality that's put into that announcer, and you're bringing a whole lot of you to that. Like, I'm just, makes me think of Joe Cipriano, like I could pick out his voice in a second because he brings his personality to it. It really is something that you have to be comfortable with. And I think that's a journey for a lot of students to become self-accepting and to allow -- and vulnerability, right -- that to come out in a performance.   Lau: Absolutely. And I think you have to be okay, okay, sometimes more than okay with whatever you're saying and doing, when it does land, and it's being accepted and it's being rewarded, being okay with that being enough. In other words, if I get into that mindset, yeah. But I, they haven't seen me do this and I don't love that as much as I love this da da -- take that out of the situation and say, look, they're seeing one potential within me of value. And they're loving that and they're valuing that. Let that be okay. Let that be enough. Go other places to show other sides of your voice and other sides of what you can do. But if that's okay, if that's what a big part of your branding is, because sometimes it's enough; people don't wanna know you as everything.   They don't want -- I'm sure we've all had that experience where we see a movie star that we know and love, and we are tracking them, and all of a sudden they're doing a role that they love. That's challenging to them. but we don't wanna see 'em in that role. It's like, it's almost uncomfortable to see them in that role because we don't know them as that. It doesn't seem authentic to us. It seems pushed or it seems weird to us. Does that mean they're not capable of doing the role? ? No, of course not. It just means we've compartmentalized in our brain their branding to us.   Anne: Sure, sure.   Lau: And that means something to us. I think that branding, for some weird reason can have a negative connotation like it's simplistic or superficial when it's not. It has a real lifestyle meaning to people of how they place you Sure. And compartmentalize you within their life, in their lifestyle.   Anne: I wanted to kind of tap into what you're talking about in terms of is there just one brand? Do you just have one brand and maybe not, maybe you can have mult -- I mean, I have multiple brands actually. And so each one of those brands though has a piece of me, has a piece of authentic me in that. And again, I think that that's one of the most important things that we want to emphasize here. And that vocal brand should be something that people can remember you by and then easily come back.   And that's the whole thing, right? Because we're talking about the physical properties of your voice and the physicalities of how we sound and what we can offer as a unique value proposition to our potential clients. Now, how are we going to market that? In my corporate narration world, I have a particular demo that really has my sound, my unique value pro -- I call it my unique value proposition for corporate. And I may sound different when I am doing e-learning, and in reality I am because I'm a different person, right? I am teaching when I'm an e-learning versus corporate, I'm selling, or even commercial, I'm a little bit selling. I'm trying to convince people. So because the context is different, you get a different part of me. And that part of me is still very much me, but it is also a different brand. So I think that for each of your vocal brands, you need to have demonstrations, demos that really showcase yourself in those particular niche  markets.   Lau: Right. You have to have that. That's a necessity. And from my experience, Anne, in my business, people come in, potential clients come in, prospects for a particular specific branding. Once they work with you in that, they start trusting you that yeah, you do that, you do it well. They're getting their value, they're getting what they need. They will open up to cross branding, which I call cross pollination, which means --   Anne: I love that, cross branding.   Lau: I offer, you offer three, four, five, six different services, whatever.   Anne: Hey, could you do this?   Lau: Yes. But they're not unrelated. Like, I'm not gonna clean your curtains, and I'm not gonna babysit your kids. Right? So they're not unrelated, they're all within this sphere. But they're much more open, and rightly so as I would be too, moving into those services once they are educated to understand what they need and what they want, versus coming in off the street for those services because they already came in for a particular brand.   Anne: Sure. And once they do that, I think it's important that you remain consistent in that brand.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: I think branding is just all about consistency, right? I mean, we've spoken about branding before. I mean, obviously look, I've got my headphones, I've got my glasses, I've got the whole red thing for VO BOSS. Visually there's a brand, but also there is that vocal consistency that comes to the show that you and I, we're giving of ourselves. We have our authentic selves. And that is a very important part of the VO BOSS brand. People don't listen to the podcast to look at my headphones. It's about my delivery, our conversation, our heart, our authenticity between the two of us. And that is, again, something that works in conjunction with marketing, maybe a visual. Right? And that has to be consistent for people, to make it memorable for people.   Lau: Yes. I would say it has to be consistent, but not necessarily constant.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Like we oftentimes think, oh, I have to be online all the time. I have to be posting on social all the time. I have to -- well, to some degree, yes. But do you need to be constantly doing that? Probably not. But you do have to be consistent in what you're doing so that it's gonna cause the attention that you want. Anne: I'm glad that you said that, because there's absolutely a thing of being too much into, right?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: I actually, myself, even when we're talking about marketing and advertising, and I offer workshops, obviously the VO BOSS podcast -- how much am I going to be marketing that brand? And so you don't want it to be so much --   Lau: You're overdoing it.   Anne: -- that it becomes an annoyance.   Lau: Right.   Anne: But what's so interesting is -- I listen to Gary Vaynerchuk. I don't know if you do, but Gary is everywhere on social media. And his philosophy is that not everybody's on social media all the time. So therefore, the fact that he pushes it out so consistently and so constantly and everywhere means that at any given moment, somebody's going to be able to know his brand and understand who he is. I think you just need to be consistent in that, but not pushing on any one particular. Right? I think that can be something that's tiresome. It's like performance. Right? Anything that repeats really becomes like white noise and people will not pay attention to it anymore.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: So whatever it is that you are giving vocally in your brand or marketing in your brand, give it authentically, and make sure it's not the same thing every single time. Because then it will become an annoyance.   Lau: Yes. And I would say too, like check your ego at the door. Check it at the door. Because none of us are so big and brash and bold that we can't be learning every moment how to make our branding better, make our value better. Here's a quick example. I do my news blast that I send out, and I'm listening to my people. Am I doing it too much? Am I doing it not enough? Da da da da. I just had someone email me, someone who I've known for a while, and he said, listen, Lau, if you don't mind my saying, he emailed me -- if you don't mind saying there's too much animation in this, things are moving, I'm nauseous. I can't read what you wrote.   Anne: I'm nauseous from your email.   Lau: Right? Like, welcome to the inside of my head. I'm thinking, you know what I'm saying? That's like the inside of my head. And I had to stop and I had to say, right, right. I didn't catch it. I didn't think about it. Da da. By Monday I'm gonna fix it. So that doesn't mean that you're always gonna agree with everything that everyone says. You're not. But if you see it's sound advice, no pun intended, sound advice, you see, it makes sense. And you see it's making someone's world harder to get to know you and get the value --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Take out the firewalls.   Anne: Take out the homework. I always say, don't give --   Lau: Get rid of it.   Anne: -- people homework. Yeah.   Lau: Yeah. Don't be egotistical and say, well why? How could he say that to me? He doesn't like my pet -- I don't care about that. I care about him getting value from what I'm sending out.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And if he cared enough to say that to me, I'm gonna care enough to take it under consideration.   Anne: Sure. Absolutely.   Lau: And in this case, case taking action on it.   Anne: Absolutely. I think that that's so important. And I also think it's important to not just be consistent, but also keep the market trends in your back pocket. Research them, understand what they are, and update accordingly. Really vocal trends change over the years, in a grand scheme sort of way. It's gone from announcery to authentic and conversational, mostly. And a lot of that, by the way, is driven by advertising. Right? What sells, right? Again, we don't like being told we're smart consumers. We don't like being told what to do. We like to be able to make our own decisions, and we often ask our peers.   And so that I think is the biggest reason why advertising and the vocal trends changed to a more natural talking like your friend, like, hey, I'd use this product because we don't wanna be told by some loudmouth announcer that we need to buy this product. I mean, we're offended by that. And again, it becomes how can you and this vocal brand service your potential client or your client? It's not about what you sound like. It's not about distributing the vocal noise out there. It's about distributing something that can connect with a listener and move them, inspire them, motivate them.   Lau: Inspire them.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Yes. And I would even add in technical, technique-wise over time, add a little hook for yourself in there. Something you may not always do, but you find you're doing consistently that works -- it might be a little glitch in the voice, it might be be a moment of pre-life. it might be a pick up swing on something you do.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Add something that's yours, that's part of your signature, whatever that is. And just do it consistently. If it works, if it annoys people, they'll let you know. If it doesn't work over time, you'll know.   Anne: Right.   Lau: But do something that's unique to you, authentic to your persona, authentic to your process. And that's something that people will start thinking of you for as well. So many people don't even think, Anne, when they're doing an audition, they want it to be so clean that they don't even think a little, -- is good. Just like a little exclamation, a little moment of vocalization. You know what I mean? Anne: It's too perfect. It's too voice talent. It's too voice actors, too perfect. Yeah.   Lau: It's too edity.   Anne: I can't tell you the amount of times I would have a student, a lot of times this will happen with a male student who has a beautiful, like lower baritone, and at the end of their sentences they'll land it. And I'm like, you need to only give me that gift once in a while, and when I don't expect it. Because if you give me that gift every single word or every single sentence, it's gonna not be a gift anymore. And so you need to give that to me in an unexpected way that's going to capture my attention and not become the same repetitive. That's really what happens when people try to sound or mimic or imitate, unless of course you're doing an impression. But that's a different thing too. Like a lot of times people will be confused when I say that, but when you're a character, I find sometimes when people like character and they're character actors, they are able to bring authenticity to their characters more than they can bring to their own voice.   Lau: Yeah. No doubt about that. And sometimes their alter ego, if they consider it an alter ego, they're doing it all the time. They do it like a tic, it's great, they love it, whatever. Sometimes it can have more authentic appeal than their daily sound can, because their heart and soul is in it. They're so connected to the success of it.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing, their heart and soul is connected to it. And so I'm always trying to convince people that like, you may not be a cartoon or a very dynamically changing character, but for everything that you do in voiceover, you are. You are a character. It's a version of you. It's an excited you, it's a passionate you, it's a somewhat confused you or whatever is called for in the copy. Right? It becomes that -- or I always say, you own the company. Right? If you're trying to talk about your product and sell for a company, then you own that company. So you're always a character.   Lau: It's like the argument we have in the acting world for actors who are not vocal actors, they're actors who are, you know, on camera or stage actors. They're saying, am I becoming someone else? Or am I opening the door within myself to other experiences that connect to my real history? Now I'd like to think it's the latter because I think that most people who are in this field, who are successful, can bring that connection, whether they do it through a sense memory, whether they do it through an extreme empathy exercises, they don't have to have experienced it. They have to connect to the experience. And that's a totally different thing. And ironically, a lot of folks who go through the actual experience can't emotionally connect the way you can as a vocal actor.   Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Right? But you have to have that conduit, whatever that conduit is, to the authentic connection, you have to have it and find it.   Anne: That is what I think so many people, they just, they're coming in to do their auditions, they run into their studio and they're good readers, right? And they read it and then they apply a melody to it that makes it sound like they're in a scene, but they're not really in a scene or acting, reacting, that kind of thing. And so I think for every piece of copy, you've gotta be so in the scene that you're not even thinking about what you sound like.   Lau: Yeah. And then it becomes mono patterned.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: And we're thinking, why am I feeling sing songy? Why am I feeling in the pattern of this?   Anne: Exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Yeah. Right.   Anne: So vocal branding, it is absolutely a thing. It is absolutely something that I think all BOSSes out there, you need to know. Understand your vocal brand, understand who you are within that vocal brand, and then be able to market that vocal brand. So make sure that it's defined, and it can evolve, by the way. It doesn't have to always be one way. You can evolve that, evolve multiple brands. Make sure that you are able to bring that front and center proudly. And that will help to, I think, get you those gigs. Good discussion.   Lau: And dirty it up. Like, don't be so perfect.   Anne: Don't be perfect.   Lau: You don't need to be so polished and perfect. Because emulating real life is like we do make mistakes, and we do have rough starts. And sometimes that will get you a job. Love it. Great discussion.   Anne: Ah, yeah.   Lau: So good.   Anne: All right. So BOSSes, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. You can find out more. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And also great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too, connect and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys. We'll see you next week.   Lau: Bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The advertising landscape is changing. People want to connect with real people, not just faceless brands. Anne & Lau share their tips for putting yourself out there visually. What matters is that you are enhancing your natural essence, not turning into some inauthentic version of you. Share yourself on social media & your website. When clients see who you are, they feel like they really know you. It also makes them more likely to remember you and recommend you to others. If all else fails, present yourself in any way that makes you feel comfortable & shows those around you that you care about what you're doing.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business superpower series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my bestie, favorite special guest, co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey, Anne.   Anne: You know, Lau, since I started with you, I made that decision to have all of our podcasts also be on video. And I have to do my hair, I gotta do my makeup . And I found myself increasingly out there on camera and in front of people. And remember back in the day, when you made that decision -- or maybe you didn't, but I did. It was always like, well, I don't wanna have to be in front of a camera. I just wanna be an actor behind a mic and nobody needs to see my face. Well, I think that's changed.   Lau: Mm-Hmm.   Anne: And I think it would be a good thing to talk about is it necessary for us to have a visual image as well as our voice?   Lau: And I remember actually, like it was yesterday, I remember the day where it was fairly detrimental to be seen because you would be pigeonholed. You'd be stereotyped. Like let's say I, I'm able to do a 10-year-old boy's voice for animation. Then all of a sudden you see me, and I look completely different than that. And now it's stuck in a producer's mind. That was the mindset back then of like, keep yourself hidden enough so that you're branding could go all over the map. And now it's like completely changed in so many ways.   Anne: Has it? See, 'cause that's the question I get these days, especially from character actors, or let's say actors that don't look like they sound. And so they're concerned about being pigeonholed if they show their face. But I am like, these days, especially with video being right up in the forefront right up and everybody's faces, it's so popular. And especially after coming out of the pandemic where people weren't in contact anymore, I do believe that people wanna connect with people. It's a human need to connect with people, to connect with faces. And I, for one, I cannot stand it when I cannot, let's say, call up a business to ask a question to get a real person on the phone. And I know this is weird. Where are my millennials? I'm sorry. My millennials are like, but I can text.   Anne: But even so, I like to call to make sure I can hear a voice on the other end. Or I like to meet on Zoom, a lot of times with new clients, kind of I validate them to make sure they're human. For me, it's a thing. I need to connect with humans. And I am always telling my business students that people wanna connect with a person and not necessarily a logo.   Lau: Yes. Yes. And here's pure irony. You and I come from a generation where we need to do that. Like I, I remember the days where when I needed to get a phone number, I'd call something called Information. Information was 411. And then I'd hear someone, usually the same woman, and she'd be like, hello, Information, how may I help you? And I loved talking to people. I still, I don't trust online booking for hotels. I don't trust online booking for air fare. I, I still have that in me to wanna talk to people, wanna make that connection, wanna have that trust. But here's the irony. In voiceover of those days, that's where we had a lot of announcer reads. That's where we had a lot of caricature style reads, especially in the commercial market. Today, today, no one wants to talk to each other. You'll always get a machine, you'll always be online filling out those fields online, right? You'll never be able to get customer service. But stylistically we want naturalism. We want to have naturalism.   Anne: We want authenticity. Mm-hmm. Authenticity, that's the biggest trend. Isn't that funny? And especially from the younger generation, right? They want that authenticity. So I believe that a visual image, an in-person or an on-camera or a, that kind of a thing really helps to bring the authenticity to the business.   Lau: It does. Like I wanna see you. I wanna see that you're a real person. You're not a bot, you're not an avatar. You're not a cartoon drawing. That's okay. Like I love seeing those, but that doesn't take the place of the person. I still wanna see the person. If I'm gonna work with you, hire you, cast you, whatever, I still wanna see that you're a person and get a sense of that.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting? It's gotten to the point where I am putting myself out there so much visually that I have a brand ,and you know what my brand consists of? Headphones, that might be red or blue or purple. Or I just got a really beautiful pair of navy blue, and I got a pair of blue glasses, . And I just ordered, do you know what I just ordered? A pair of red glasses. And I also ordered a wind sock that is red . Uh, so maybe when I'm gonna be in the BOSS booth recording an episode, I might have a red headphone with red lipstick with red glasses, with a red -- but it becomes a visual part of my brand and it becomes something that people recognize for me. And it becomes consistent. I believe that consistency brands recognition and brands, something being more memorable. And I think that in addition to your voice being memorable, connecting that with a human, authentic being on the other side and also adding some visual branding can really help to make you a memorable brand.   Lau: Yes. And anyone who has been an actor either on tv, done film, done theater, knows the power of wardrobe, the power of makeup, the power of a mask. You know, we'll call it a mask right now because it could be be for men as well, or whatever you identify as. You have something that you may utilize to initiate your branding visually, whatever that is. It could be a hat, it could be, as you said, glasses, lipstick, it could be even a pen that you use, even a prop that you use. You know what I mean?   Anne: Nails.   Lau: Yeah. Nails. Right. So that it sort of gives you a little bit of superpower. It gives you a little bit of dynamic to fall into that role, whatever that role is for you, that if you don't do it, and you don't have it, it's a tougher way to reach the role that you're trying to play.   Anne: And that includes websites too, because that's one of the biggest questions I get is, do I put my photo on my website? Because that has always been the biggest bone of contention, right? Because I'm a voice actor, they don't need to see my face, but again, online people, before they even know you, you want to make yourself as memorable as possible. Yes, it's wonderful to think that my voice alone could do it, but why not your voice combined with your authentic headshot? And I'm gonna say, even if you don't sound how you look, I can say there's value in having, on your about page, a photo of yourself.   I don't think that that is going to misrepresent you at all. And especially if we're talking about authenticity, right? Who is it behind the voice? I think that that really warrants a lot to showcase a photo of yourself. Now, for me, I've always been about visual branding, and so on my website, I've always had a photo of myself, my voiceover website. And I feel as though it doesn't hurt me at all. I think it probably helps me. I think that I probably look like I sound. I don't know, Lau, what do you think? Do I?   Lau: Yes. I think your visual branding matches everything else that you're doing. Not always the case with voiceover talent, but that's okay. For you, I think it's perfect. Perfect. Your visual matches your vocal. It's wonderful.   Anne: So then again, let's talk more in depth about if your visual doesn't match your vocal. Can it hurt you if you put your photo on your website or -- I mean, I feel like you're gonna have to interact with your clients at some point.   Lau: Well, that's it.   Anne: In some way. Right?   Lau: That's it. I think he, you can't avoid the unavoidable and you know, you may not always meet everyone in person, but you are going to be -- now that we're in post COVID, we're having many more in-person events come back.   Anne: Or video meetings.   Lau: Or Zoom. Yes. Mm-hmm. Video meetings. And do you always wanna have your video off? Do you always wanna look a little bit MIA, like you're not fully present? No. You wanna have the ability to have confidence and say, I like the way I look. I'm proud of the way I look. It's part of who I am as a business person. And if they misconstrued my sound with the way I look, you know, hey, what can I do about it? That's called living in the world. I would rather see someone than not for sure.   Anne: Exactly. Yeah. As a client, absolutely. I would much rather deal with someone that I can see visually. Now have I seen all of my clients visually? No. No. But I have usually contacted them via email or at one time or another, my repeat clients, right, I've seen them. I've been in a video meeting with them to discuss a project or I've contacted them for some reason one way or they've live directed me. Some people can put the camera off during one of those sessions. But I like to have it on just to say hi. Just to let people know, hi, I'm a real person. And now during my performance, I don't necessarily have to have it on me as long as I've introduced myself as a part of my business with my visual face.   Now let's talk about, is there any sort of code of how should I look? Remember a long time ago there used to be restrictions, I know, for in the workplace about hair, right? And about beards and about that sort of a thing where it wasn't considered corporate to have a beard or long hair or something like that. So what are your thoughts about today and, and for a voice talent, is there a code of anything really?   Lau: I think it's the best time, Anne, to be able to show your face because the playing field is so open now with what's acceptable, what's welcome. Everything's diversity. Everything is age, everything is background, everything is, you know -- when you go into, like even in Manhattan, when I go into some of the more corporatey kind of firms, they're very business casual. The younger generation is much more casual --   Anne: I love that.   Lau: -- than they were years ago. I love it too. So I think a lot more is acceptable. But that being said, I don't think it gives people a free pass of saying, oh, I'll just look like whatever. I'll just stick on whatever. I'll just do whatever. I would take the time to work with a coach, your coach, whoever is great with styling, great with image, great with fashion, great with branding, and say, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. I don't wanna go too far away from my authentic, neutral self, but I wanna look really great for who I am. I wanna look put together, I wanna be fresh, I wanna have great colors, great fits.   Anne: Or you wanna look like you care.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: Look, there's a lot of casual people in California. I get that. I've lived here for enough years to know. But coming from the east coast to the west coast is, in terms of clothing and ideals about looks and how you would dress for a corporate job, it's actually quite a bit different. But the cool thing is like, I wear black, I wear leather. Everything I wore on the east coast, I wear on the West Coast. And I haven't changed because I've changed where I've lived. And the cool thing is, is that it allows me to be me. I mean California, for all their casualness, you don't have to put on fancy clothes. But I think also you don't wanna look like that you don't care about your appearance.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: And so I think that no matter what you have, like, and I remember, gosh, I remember tattoos weren't a thing either. This is my corporate background coming in. Tattoos weren't a thing, nose piercings that -- I've always wanted to get a nose piercing, by the way. This is, this is is Anne's admission. And I think I'm going to get one.   Lau: The truth comes out.   Anne: At this age, I am going to get one, a very small delicate, 'cause I'm a, I'm a bling girl. Right? And I feel like a small bling right here would look awesome.   Lau: Do it, do it.   Anne: But, so now people are gonna hold me to it. So maybe at one point, everybody, BOSSes out there, you'll see me with a little bit of a nose, a nose pierce.   Lau: A little diamond bling right there.   Anne: Little diamond bling. 'Cause it's --   Lau: I love it.   Anne: I like the bling.   Lau: I love it.   Anne: But yeah, I do think that as long as you're showing your authentic you and it's something that your authentic you is something you care about, I think that presents -- because again, it's personal, but don't forget that our personal brand is a business brand. And so we're representing ourselves to people who might want to hire us or maybe not hire us based upon our looks. Is that a thing? True. I mean, I think if we're gonna be brave and show our face and show who we are, we have to also accept the fact that maybe people won't hire us based upon our looks. Lau, thoughts?   Lau: Yeah. If you're meeting people too, which you and I are meeting people all the time, whether we're on Zoom or we're in person, we're meeting people, you know, how do we come across? How do we look them in the eye? Do we smile, all this stuff? So I don't want it to seem like you have to put on armor to meet people. But you wanna enhance your natural beauty, your natural essence, your natural energy. It's sort of like the rule of thumb for a really great actor headshot is I don't want it to be glamorous. I don't want it to be overdone. I want it to be super natural and look like you on a really great day.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: So that's sort of the rule of thumb. And ask yourself this question, look at all the businesses out there that now have the owners or the people working in the business show their visual faces. Real estate agents, they all have their faces on cards, right. We have a lot of branding in advertising for everything from furniture to cars to on and on it goes of people who own the dealership, people who run the furniture stores, and, and you're thinking, well why? Why are they on there? Why don't they have, you know, beautiful looking talent on there that are gorgeous? No. Because people wanna see real people. They wanna see who they're creating relationship with to buy these products, but they just wanna make sure that they look good on a good day. They don't wanna roll outta bed. You know?   Anne: Do you remember Don LaFontaine for many years? We heard his voice, heard his voice, heard his voice, and then he started doing the commercials where he, he was in person? I love that. And also because you're on the east coast, oh Lau, please let me know if you -- Men's Warehouse, do you remember his voice? Oh my gosh, for years --   Lau: Oh yes!   Anne: The guy who owned Men's Warehouse had the most beautiful voice and I thought, wow, he should be doing more voiceover instead of his commercials. And then they showed him on the commercial. And so he brought his visual brand, and I loved it. I absolutely loved finding out who the person was behind the voice. And --   Lau: And now they all do it. Now they all do it. And sometimes you're looking and you're going, I'd rather they stayed behind the camera. . Like, you know, they have these deep, you know, Boston accents, you know, come on in and buy a sofah.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: You know, what I mean? But the point is, that's what the largest demographic in the commercial market really wants. They want approachable, natural, authentic, real authentic.   Anne: And you know, just like, okay, so just like being an announcer has gone off trend, right? And whenever we get behind that mic, we feel like we have to put on that voice. Here is my voiceover voice. Hello, I'm Anne and this is my voiceover voice. Like that's a put on kind of a -- like people want more authentic. Now character, we're talking something completely different, right? Because you become that character, but you're becoming an authentic character, right? So just as, we don't necessarily like inauthentic sounding or inauthentic in social media where everything's always perfect, we like the authentic person, and that visual brand helps to bring out that authenticity. And I think that is something that can truly help elevate your business as scared as you are.   And for all of the people out there who have gotten into voiceover, because, well I got into voiceover so they didn't have to see my face. Well, I think it's time guys for you to appear and show up to your businesses and show up because we wanna connect with you. And I'm always talking in terms of performance, when I'm trying to get that conversational read, even for narration, right? I'm trying to get that engagement. It's that back and forth. That visual can help you. I'm always talking about, I want that authenticity, I want that engagement. Your visual brand can help you. And that visual brand is in person, when you meet people, your website, it can be a great indicator for your visual brand as well. Even if it's just a picture of you on the about page. I think that it's something that can bring a lot of value, a lot of value.   Lau: I agree. And I think you feel differently. You internalize your external. So you know, it's a fine line. Like we're not all about what we look like. We're not all about what externally comes out. But there is a deep connection between what I'm internally emotionalizing and feeling and what I'm externally giving out to the world. And so I think we can learn a lot from actors who are going for visual roles that they don't dress in costume, and they shouldn't dress in costume for an audition, but they should give a flavor, give a hint of the character in how they're gonna present themselves when they walk in the room.   Anne: And it's always bringing themselves to the character. Right? That really is the winning --   Lau: Yeah, you're gonna do --   Anne: It's the winning. Right? Your twist. Your unique, authentic twist to the story no matter what. Whether you're performing behind the mic, performing in front of the camera, your online storefront, whatever that is, it's helping you to bring that organic, authentic part of you to the role. And even yeah, as you say, character acting.   Lau: If you're gonna do a narration, a corporate narration gig, don't come in wearing your old t-shirt and shorts and flip flops because there's gonna be a little bit of a psychological jump for you to do to that particular job. Come in, you know, come into your booth in your home.   Anne: You're coming into it as an employee, right? In reality, if they've hired you to be the voice of their brand, you are now an employee of that company. So now, dress visually and I think emote as if you were a part of their brand, which you are. If they've hired you and they're going to pay you, you are now an employee, quote unquote, of that company. So.   Lau: Yeah, there's a culture. So there's always this culture to every gig, every client, every happening that shifts and changes. It really doesn't and shouldn't stay the same. To have the mindset of like, well they'll just accept me the way I am -- okay. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes they want to have a visual mirror as to who they are, how they're coming in, how they feel about the work. Same with your clients that are your coaching clients or demo clients.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: They wanna feel comfortable that you understand where they're coming from. And sometimes that's visual cues.   Anne: It's very interesting because I coach without visual, I do not coach through Zoom. I coach through ipDTL. Yay, love ip -- why do I coach through ipDTL? Because it's a high quality audio connection, and I need to hear those nuances, especially when I'm doing long format coaching for narration, medical, nuance is everything -- actually nuance is everything for every part of voiceover I think. But that's me. And so I need to be able to hear really well. I need to be able to hear that coming through. And it's interesting 'cause I'll coach a student 10, 20 sessions, and then I'll talk to them over Zoom when I reveal their demo. I always do a Zoom reveal so I can finally meet them. And most of the time I'm not necessarily surprised at how they look 'cause they have a presence on social media or they look like they sound. But sometimes I am completely surprised and pleasantly so. I've never been unpleasantly surprised. But absolutely when I've seen someone, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.   And so I think a lot of times when I'm coaching for voiceover, right, that is primary is voiceover is your voice and hearing the nuances in your voice. But I always wanna hear your authentic self come through in the voice. But always, especially when you're representing a company, you are the employee of that company. But I need your unique, authentic self to come through. And a lot of times that authentic self is your personality. Right? A lot of times your voiceover, I think, is made better by your personality, your unique personality that you bring to it. Because I'm here to help you, I'm here to serve you, I'm here to tell you about this great product that you're -- it's always positive. I don't think we're ever, unless we're doing character work, right? I don't think we're ever emoting things that are negative. Right? Typically we're not hired for negative sounding voiceovers or angry voiceovers, again, unless we're a character. It's mostly a positive, comes from the heart, from a helpful situation. What are your thoughts on that, Lau?   Lau: Oh, I agree. I agree. And I, I mean when you consider how many people out there that are visual learners, they literally take in information, process information and create quick output based on what they're taking in visually. Like I have to give them something to work with if I have the ability to. If they don't see me, they see nothing visual that I do, well, okay. But oftentimes they will, they'll go to my website. They'll go to your social, they'll go to something that has you on it, whatever that is, . And they'll say quickly, do I feel comfortable with this person? Happens in like two seconds.   Anne: Excellent point. And I'm glad you brought that up because whether people decide to put their picture on their website, which is the biggest question I get, or not, right, there's social media somewhere, somewhere out there, there's going to be a photo of you that someone might discover. And maybe that's not the photo that you want them to discover first. Maybe it could be a photo from years ago when you weren't in voiceover or maybe you're being crazy and you know, having fun at a party. Maybe that's not the first photo that you want your potential client to see.   So I figure if you're going to put out a photo, put out that photo that is authentic you now and not you maybe 20 years ago when you weren't doing voiceover. And that's what a lot of my argument is. They're like, yeah, but I, you know, they're not hiring me for my face. And I'm like, true. But they wanna connect with a human being. And by the way, if they really wanted to, they probably could find a picture of you somewhere out there on the internet.   Lau: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting too. Like it's, this is on topic, off topic. It's like when we were at the conference out in LA, you and I were at that conference out in LA, which we had a fab time, and I pay attention 'cause I listen, listen, listen for cues -- this is all face-to-face in person -- when I'm going through the steps of speaking at that conference, I'm listening to comments to me and comments about me, about who I am and about my brand. And a number of times I heard sometimes from men, sometimes from women, like, oh, I'm standing next to this beautiful woman right here. Or oh, this pretty lady, whatever. Or isn't she just sweet whatever, making initial comment on my visual in the way I look.   And I take it all in because I say, well, that's what they're getting in the first 5, 10, 15 seconds of not really knowing me, just kind of knowing my brand or knowing my name, whatever, I'll take it. I'm not offended by any of it because I feel like people wanna find the quick way to make themselves feel comfortable with you.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Whatever it is. Maybe I look like their mom, maybe I look like their wife, maybe I look like their daughter. Maybe I have an elegant presence to them in some way. Great. I'll take it. Rather than them saying, oh, you know, she could have switched out that sweatshirt. You know what I mean? She could have put some nice --   Anne: She could have put some nice clothes. Not dirty. That would be my mother talking.   Lau: Yeah. She could've put some, you know, taken off the dirty tennis shoes to come here. You know what I mean? It's--   Anne: My mother who always, you know what I'm saying? My mother, my mother did. Your mother, my mother used to say this all the, all the time she could like if I was going on, she goes, now make sure you put clean underwear on in case you get into an accident.   Lau: Yeah. In case you're an accident.   Anne: Yes. Oh my gosh. . So, but Lau, you know what's so interesting that you mentioned that when I first met you, I think one thing that was instantly drawn to was your smile and your laugh. And that I feel is like an inherent part of who you are and your personality. And again, I feel like that was a visual before I even heard you. Because remember we met during that webinar, we met on video.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And I just remember your smile and your laugh and I thought instantly it was an instant connection. And I feel like that's what you want to be to your clients. You want to have an instant connection with your clients.   Lau: You do. And to the point where it's so deeply psychological, they feel they know you. They feel they know you already. Like they really know you and you're thinking, I don't think you know me or they don't know me, but that's okay. That's okay. I want to know you. I'm going to know you. And if this is just a first step, then this is just a first step.   Anne: And I feel if you're on social media at all, right? Social media is so visual these days. Right? I mean if you are on social media, you're probably throwing out a picture, a picture, maybe not of you, but it could be of your family, could be of your fur babies, could be of -- you're throwing out images of your authentic self. We hope. Right? Because sometimes, as we know is the issue with social media is it becomes the fake presence. But I think if any of you are on social media at all and you've got potential clients everywhere, and they could be seeing your presence socially before they even consider hiring you, and that social impression that they get from you could be from comments that you're making or pictures that you're sharing. Everything's video now. TikTok, Instagram reels. Facebook reels. And I feel like it's almost impossible for you to not showcase your visual on social media these days.   Lau: Yeah. It is. Like you can't get away from it at all. Even if people are taking photos at an event that you attended, you're gonna show up somewhere in the photo. And they may not always be a great photo, but the point is you gotta stay at home and never leave and be super careful to not be caught in some sort of visual. And even in your branding, you have to put out some sort of visual for your branding.   Anne: And I think if your fear is being pigeonholed, I think your vocal type might be pigeonholed anyways if you have a very unique voice. Right? I think when you're talking like a very young voice for your age or any type of voice that is different than you look like, whether you put your picture out there or not, I feel like you're going to be cast in a certain role.   For example, if you have a very high pitched voice right now, although now it's becoming more commonplace, maybe you wouldn't be cast for an older personality that's buying, I don't know, bifocals. So whether your photo is out there or not, your voice is gonna be cast in that way or not based upon the sound or the perceived sound that the client is looking for. So I don't think it matters if you post a photo of yourself on your website that doesn't represent your voice because they're hiring you for the voice, and the voice is then being cast in a role as they see fit. But your authenticity comes through in that voice.   Lau: Yes. And everything's subjective at the end of the day, like you can't get away from subjectivity. That's human nature. We're based on our own frame of reference, how we are perceiving you and how we're taking you in. So I don't think we can fully control that. But there is something, I think, especially with someone who doesn't know you, there is a psychological bond that happens quickly when they perceive that you care.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: They perceive you care enough to put yourself together, to do that little extra whatever it is you are doing, whether it's your hair, or your materials -- or as a woman, Anne, we talk about this all the time, I get so many people who say, Hey Lau, I love what you're wearing. What's that necklace you're wearing? Or where'd you get that ring? Or da da da. Sounds kind of materialistic, but it's something that they can connect to you on. Something that they care about, something that makes them feel comfortable. And then you'll make that chitchat based exactly on, oh, where I got this or what is that? Or, and then that always leads to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And so that, that's valuable.   Anne: And people who know you because of what you've put out there, like visually and/or audibly, right, becomes a point of connection that you can then use to be memorable in your brand. So great discussion. So guys, if you're afraid to put your pho -- don't be afraid to put your photo out there. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there on video. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there in person, in front of your potential clients, in front of your clients. It is a piece of who you are, it is a piece of your brand, and it's a piece of your business.   Lau: I'm with you all the way.   Anne: Well, thank you, Lau, for another thrilling discussion. I love, I love, love, love talking to you every week.   Lau: I love it too. And may I say we look fabulous today.   Anne: Yes. We thank you , because we're our authentic selves. So with that, I'd like to give a great shout out to ipDTL. You too can network, communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.   Lau: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Raising your rates as a voice actor can be a daunting task, but it doesn't have to be. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss tips for approaching money conversations with clients, moving past the fear around charging what you're worth and deciding when to raise your rates. It's important that you know what your time is worth and what kind of value your clients are getting from working with you. Your voice is an asset. By taking charge of these conversations & setting your rates accordingly, you can make sure that your business is running smoothly. Your clients want to work with someone who knows their own value and isn't afraid of asking for it. And if you need someone to talk you through the process, keep on listening…   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Woo-hoo! Always so wonderful to see you.   Lau: Always great to be back. .   Anne: Well, Lau it's a change of seasons and so I'm feeling like I've gone back and reflected upon my business, and it is the time of year where I make the consideration, do I want to raise my prices or not? And what a great discussion Lau, because it is so difficult. How do you raise your prices? How do you raise your rates? And how do you go about doing that with clients that you've had for years or new clients for fear of, oh my gosh, your rates are too high, or rates are too low. I thought it would be a wonderful thing to discuss today on how we can raise our rates, because as businesses, we need to be profitable, right? For the majority of us in this industry, we would like it to be a business and not a hobby. And so to be a business, we need to yield a profit and to yield a profit, that includes pricing yourself. So let's start with you. Talk to me about, first of all, how do you set your prices for your particular voiceover jobs, acting jobs? What do you do first in order to set a fair rate for yourself or a fair price to yourself?   Lau: The question of the year, I say --   Anne: Isn't it though?   Lau: Not even of the day, but of the year. I can hear all of your listeners. The BOSSes are moving a little bit closer, and listening closer. Now, it's a great conversation to have. So I really am thrilled that we're having it today. In my opinion, there's a lot of fear around this conversation. There's a lot of apprehension, a lot of almost terror, I'd say, in really giving yourself as a person and also your brand, as a business, a price tag. That's very difficult for people's brains to get around, especially creatives who are artists and women can have a tough time with that as well.   Anne: Oh yeah.   Lau: And I think everyone can have a tough time as they move through their business, not just in early stages either. Like, people that are at 10, 15, 20 years into the biz having challenges with this topic. I myself have had many challenges through the years. I think one of the first things that, when we take a step back and we look at the whole fee structure of what we are doing, we have to ask ourself what is our worth? What is our value?   And it's not, not a simple, oh, this is what I'm worth and this is my value. It's really something to journal about, something to think deeply on, to converse with people you know and trust, and to do some market research, to really go into the market, say, this is our industry, this is my space. The more I niche down in my space, the more I can research the industry going rates, and really just document that. I would take a little bit of time and document that and update that like every six months to a year, just update.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Every six months to a year, get knowledgeable.   Anne: So starting what the industry rates are. And so I totally agree with you there. In order for you to raise your rates, you have to set your rates. And so that's the question, number one is before you can raise them, how do you set them? And I think a great reference point is, and we've mentioned this multiple times on the podcast, is the rate guides. GVAA has a fantastic rate guide, Gravy for the Brain has one, SAG-AFTRA has their rates posted. So that's a great benchmark to start to set your rates.   And I think we've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again, whether you are new to the industry or you've been in the industry for 20 years, you can price yourself at the standard rate. Just because you're new doesn't mean that you have to price yourself at a lower rate than somebody who's been in the business for 15, 20 years. Because in essence, it actually helps the industry if you are pricing yourself at a fair going rate according to the rate guides.   Lau: I would agree with that. Totally agree with that. You took the words out, right outta my head. I was about to say, you almost do the industry in injustice when you go too far low and too far below what the industry rates are. Even though there may be times where you do that and you choose to do that, you need to do that and that's okay. But as a running rule, you wanna stay at the industry rates or above because you wanna drive the market up. You don't wanna drive the market down.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: We oftentimes hear the sayings like it's a race to the bottom. What that really means is like we're all excited about working. We wanna get as much work as we can, charge them anything and just get anything for the business. And I think that there's a time and place for that. But for sustainability and longevity of a business, it just doesn't work. It does not work in any way. And you are devalued. You're immediately devalued in the eyes of that prospect client. So to really sit down and say, okay, whether I'm starting out or whether I'm running my business, you and I have been running our businesses for 15-plus years, is to say, what is my value today? How has that changed from a year ago? How have we grown? What are my products? How have I niched my products? And what are those products valued at in the market today?   I would start there. That's a good start right there. And then to start thinking about time. What does time mean to you? How much value is your time? How valuable is your time? What's your worth? Your knowledge, your ethos, your education --   Anne: Your experience.   Lau: Your experience, right? It's, that's where the subjective force comes in. What makes me unique? What's my value proposition different from others in the space doing similar work, helps establish that value.   Anne: Well, I think also one thing that helps us as freelancers is that I like to break it into different categories. You have the new clients, the ever evolving, I guess, cycle of new clients that come along. And for that, it's easy to set a rate or raise your rate. Okay? Because they've not had previous experience with you. So in a way that makes it easier for us to either celebrate or raise our rates. And it is up to us though, to take that step to do that.   I mean, I myself was guilty for back in the beginning, keeping my rates, keeping my rates, keeping my rates until I felt that I had built my business up enough to warrant raising my rates. But I do feel that every year is a great time to reevaluate your rates, and the economy too. You've gotta take a look at the economy. Now, we've got so many different things happening at this point in our industry.   We have the evolving economy, which is not doing great right now. So is it a good time to raise my rates? Right? We've got that to consider. What is the market willing to pay? What is the market willing to bear for a price of voiceover, especially now with synthetic voices looming on the horizon. So there's a lot of other factors that need to be taken into place, and if it wants to play into our fear, well, that's what does it for sure. Right? A lot of times the economy and other factors including competition from not only voice actors but now synthetic voices -- and so that just builds upon the fear.   If you weren't scared before raising your rates, now we've got a couple, a couple extra things that are being thrown into the mix, but I will say that because we are freelancers and because we continually acquire new clients, this is a good time to be able to set or raise your rate for the new clients that come aboard. And you know what? Here's the deal. If you decide to set your rate higher than you normally do or raise your rate, what's gonna happen is you will see if the market will bear it, right? If people are gonna say, yeah, sure, that's great. And not question the rate. And so when that happens, there's nothing better than that, because that gives you the confidence to really go forth and raise your rates for all clients.   So it's a great test bed when you get a new client to either set your rate higher or actually change your rate for the new clients. Now I like the whole grandfather clause where I've had a client for many years, and because they are a good client that continues to give me business, I will make a decision on an independent basis whether or not I will raise my rates for them. And then that becomes a different conversation, right? Because now that's where you've gotta like own up to saying, look, I appreciate you as a client, and I'm so thankful for the business and thankful for our relationship together. How do I say I'm going to raise my rights now?   Lau: Ooh.   Anne: Oh, there's the tough one.   Lau: Ooh, snap. There's what she did. Well, everyone has a different thought process. And again, you took the words out of my head because the way I tend to run my business is I tend to show loyalty and allegiance to current clients and typically stay at the rates that they're at. You certainly don't have to. And there are many businesses that will go up in rates on current clients. I just haven't done that quite as much. I keep them at the rate, grandfather them in, have the blank slate on new people with a new pricing coming in. And typically there just isn't any conflict of interest with that.   Oftentimes they don't even know the difference. They just see you coming in, and here's the interesting psychological value to that. All of a sudden you give a new pricing, and they may not flinch at all and say, oh, okay, great. And then you think, oh my gosh, I could have done that years ago.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: I could have done that years ago instead of playing all these psychological games with myself. To this person, the value is there. You are worth it. They're ready to go, and why wouldn't they pay that price? So I think to find good quality clients, the kind of clients that fit you, fit your business is so important. And to know that there are going to be clients that are not good for you; they're not good for you any longer, or they don't fit what your value is because they see it as a cost.   Anne: Right. Right. Exactly.   Lau: They don't see it as an investment. So I tend to use very strategic language when I speak to people. Is this your investment or is this a cost for you? And then educate them on what the difference is. And once they figure out that this is an investment, oh yeah, I'm glad you put it that way, then it is worth it to me. So sometimes it takes the little bit of education in there for them to shift their mindset to, well, you spent how much on a college education? You spent how much on your graduate degree? You spent how much on your online courses, what have you. Was that cost or was that investment? So this is the same thing. This is the same thing.   Anne: I love that you say cost or investment, because I think that clients who look at it as an investment are absolutely going to see your worth much more readily than a client that sees it as a cost. And it's also important, I think, for us as actors and creatives to understand that our voice is an asset. And I know I say it, yes, your voice is an asset, but what does that really mean? Right? Your voice contributes to potential millions of dollars in sales , right, for a client. And sometimes I think we forget that. We become so far removed from the product, the end product that we are providing the voice for that we forget our worth in terms of that.   So don't forget that your voice as an asset -- and this, I'll tell you what, I've learned this in my dealings with trying to talk to, let's say, synthetic voice producers or directors or companies that are producing synthetic voices -- to say that the voice is an asset, that it is worthy of compensation. It is worthy of fair compensation because that asset is what contributes to a company's brand. And don't forget that, BOSSes. Your voice contributes to a company's brand, which is no different than a marketing material or an on-air camera talent that gets paid a good amount of money to represent the brand of a company. So I think because we're in our studios, and we're like alone, we forget that somehow, that our voice really does contribute to a brand's value and a brand's ability to sell.   Lau: That's right. Absolutely. And quick anecdote on that one, just this past week I have a, a new agent colleague from LA who opened an agency and she was calling me to check in on a contract that she's working on for voiceover, and she doesn't currently represent voiceover. And she was going through what would be a fair rate for this talent, and she kept saying over and over and over again, I mean, these people are making millions off of this. They're making millions off of this. And we're talking about the difference between like, they offered $350, $350, she went up to $1100. I said, why don't you offer at lea -- oh my god, 1500 is like still so incredibly -- and her, there was a fear factor in there. I could hear the fear slip in. I said, what's the worst that happens?   Anne: They say, no.   Lau: You slide, you do whatever you want to do and feel is right. But my goodness, the truth is it should be actually so, so, so much higher than that. She just didn't wanna start at such a high rate compared to what the original rate they were giving her. She didn't wanna slide so high. But the truth is, it's so outta whack, it's so outta bounds in terms of what a company may be doing with that brand and creating gross versus what the talent is being paid, which is nothing, pennies, literally less than pennies.   Anne: There's something to be said for pricing yourself in such a way that it is value because you've priced yourself higher versus if you price yourself too low, then it's a perception of, well, okay, so that's a cheap price, right, for a cheap talent maybe. And that may or may not be the way that you want your brand to be perceived. So I always have said that I'm Tiffany's, right? I don't go on sale. This is my rate. And if a client chooses to accept that rate, then they are also accepting obviously that that is my worth and that I'm worth the value of that.   And I think that if they don't, it's okay. You have time to go and find the people that will pay you the rate that you're worth and value that charge or your increase in price. And it's a difficult, difficult thing, especially when you attack it from, well, if I raise my prices, am I going to raise my prices for everyone? And I don't think you have to. I think as we've discussed it, I've got people that are grandfathered in, and each one of those clients that I've been working with for a certain amount of time, each gets a special consideration.   Now, I might have worked with people for 10 years already at the same rate. And I think it makes it a whole lot easier when you propose to them that your rates, due to increased costs in running your business, your rates have to change. And this, for anybody that uses, let's say an audio editor for their work, and they're paying them as well, if they go up in price, and you're still charging the same, well, you've gotta recoup those costs somehow as a business.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: I've got that. I've got people that I pay for services that are raising their prices on me. And as a business, I've gotta somehow figure out how am I going to accommodate that cost? Because as a business, I don't wanna lose profit on that because I wanna maintain or elevate my business.   Lau: Right. And there is a huge credence to the philosophy that I wanna price myself above the market rate.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: Not to get into like scamming or anything like that. Nothing negative. Like, oh, I just wanna make as much money as I can. No, no. You wanna say, listen, here's my price, here's my value, here's my investment, and I'm giving you, as you said, the Tiffany's approach. I'm giving you that Tiffany's approach. So you're investing in that, and that, that actually psychologically tells people that your worth is so high, it's so much higher. So it must be worth the cost of admission. So I'm going down that road, I've been going down that road for a number of years now, saying, yes, we are a slightly higher than the average studio. Yes, we are slightly higher, whatever, because here's the value prop X, Y, Z. That's what we do. That's what we give. You don't want that, then we're not the place for you.   Anne: Right. Right.   Lau: So yes, being able to walk away, being able to say, this business isn't gonna work, this client isn't gonna be good. They don't see the value, that's okay. I think that's fine. You know, you don't have to sort of tear for every single person who comes your way. They're not always gonna be the right ones for you.   Anne: You bring up a good point there, and I've seen this as some discussion on the forums as well lately about some talent feeling that they have a need to school their clients on a fair price. And there's a way to do that that is respectful of a client. I think, again, you have to really put yourself in the client's shoes. Not all clients are in direct control of the money that can be paid for your services. Not all clients really do have the budget, and if they don't, I think it's well worth it for us to say or advise that you're not rude about it. Because not every company has the budget to pay voice services for whatever you might be commanding at the moment. So I think be careful when you are renegotiating with your clients back and forth for a rate.   I think for me, when it's a new client and I'm negotiating a rate, I always start on the higher end, which makes it easy to negotiate down. I always leave an open space in my quote, and a lot of times that's in an email that says, please let me know if this fits within your budget. And that sentence alone pretty much just opens the door for negotiation. And so then a client can come back to me and say, well, I've only been allocated this much for the budget, and then I can work with that. So I always kind of shoot higher anyway. And so that kind of works within my, let's raise the rates this year.   I think it's a conscious decision that you as a business person, right -- put the creative aside for a moment -- well, keep the creative to know what you're worth, but also put on your business hat and really put yourself in the position. Here's what I'm going to do, and stick with it and try to just get past that fear. I think that's the biggest thing that stops the majority of us from raising our rates or charging what we're worth in the first place.   Lau: Yeah. I think you just have to do it. Like you have to go ahead and do it. Look, what's the worst that happens? It doesn't work.   Anne: They say no.   Lau: You can go back. You can go back, you can change your rates, make it lower. Like no one's holding you against a wall. You can do it, but you've gotta try it. I, this gets into negotiation, Anne, a little bit, but I would say it's very important to, once you give that number, once you give that fee, to stop talking. It's very important to give it, to have a sense of just like you would deliver copy and say, this is what we do for this investment company or for this healthcare. We help you, we give you health. This is what our fee is.   Anne: Mm-hmm. And then wait.   Lau: And then stop.   Anne: Then wait. Say nothing.   Lau: What do they say in sales? Like the first person who speaks loses.   Anne: Exactly, that's true.   Lau: Because our nature as caring people, many are artists I wanna say, but you know, we're the lowest, we're kind of cheap, and we're not gonna take, and to sort of justify and give excuses and tell you why we selected that fee -- don't do it. Don't succumb to that seductive force of wanting to explain or self-deprecate.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Or say, I shouldn't be doing this and I don't know why I'm doing this, but hopefully it works for you, and I hope you can do this. Don't do it. Don't do it.   Anne: Yeah basically --   Lau: Don't do it.   Anne: Here's my price. Let me know if it fits within your budget. And then I wait.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: If you start to pursue it or act desperate in any way, then that's negotiation skills. And I'm so glad in a way that I had to develop those early on because when I first got into the business, I waited a long time before I pursued an agent. And so, so until then I was negotiating for narration, you know, non-broadcast work. And so that gave me a lot of confidence. I could try things out, I tried rates out. And it's funny because people will ask me, well, what do you charge for this? And I'll be like, I pulled that right outta my butt. I pulled that number right outta my butt. But honestly, this's where it comes half the time because I've got a basis. But I don't necessarily know this client.   I try to validate the client first and see what other work they have and educate myself as much as possible and then give a number. And sometimes that number, there's no basis for that number other than it's just I took a benchmark and I priced it up a certain amount based upon my last experience. And basically it's all trial and error, and I've always left myself that window open for negotiation. And that experience has really, I think, educated me more than just about anything else in this industry, was the education of being able to negotiate.   And so for that you play a lot of games and you fight a lot of fear. And it takes just a few times for things to work in your favor. Always ask the client if they have a budget in mind, because that budget can also help you to gauge pricing. I asked a client once what their budget was, and they're like, oh, I can't spend more than $3,000 for this. And I'm like, whoa. That was like three times what I was gonna quote.   Lau: So much higher.   Anne: That was three times higher than I was gonna quote. And I said, I think I can work with that . So that sort of thing can really give you confidence to understand where your worth is and then also where you might price and where you might start to raise your rates. So every year I say, take a look at what you're charging people, 'cause I have a base guideline, and by the way, I don't advertise it at all. I think that it used to be a thing where some people advertised their rates, and I think in that kind of a tactic, it's almost like if you're gonna advertise your rates, you're looking to get people who are trying to get the lowest cost. Here's my rates, I'll do a commercial for $100, or you know, a 60-second commercial for $100. And I think if you're gonna do that, then you're playing the wrong game there. You're playing the lowest bid wins, and you've kind of limited yourself in terms of profit that you can make by publishing your rates. So it's more of a custom boutique service if you say, contact me or if you're interested, here are my demos. If you're interested, contact me and then start the conversation.   Lau: And that's exactly why it's important to stay quiet as much as you speak, because you're gonna pick up the cues of what that client is saying to you and you're gonna make your quick notes so that in your brain you can say, oh I can go hide her. I didn't realize that. Or I'm way too high. Am I willing to lose this client? Like you can start that conversation, that inner monologue going, if you're listening to the cues that are coming in.   And there was one more point I wanted to make 'cause you said something so cool and that was about control yourself. Like control your emotions, control how you react to things. Here's the psychology of selling. Is that like nothing should get me upset is the truth. Everything should be objectified just enough so that whatever comes out of them is not really about me. They're talking about my business. So they're not -- so I'm not just like an actor. It's like if I don't get the job, it's not really about me, it's about what I'm offering is not really right for that role. Well, it's the same in business. They're not really talking about me. 'Cause guess what? They don't know me and they don't know me at all. I'm a stranger. They're talking about their perception of this whole business that they may not know anything about. Or they may have had a, a big history, they may have been burned, who knows?   Like we don't know when they come in the room, what they've been through. They may have been through a lot. So you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that if they get irritated or angry or if they treat you inappropriately, you have to understand that they're coming in with a history. But don't fall into it yourself. Like we used to say in training, leave your trash at the door. You know what I mean? Like you, well you can pick it up on your way out, but don't put it in someone else's court. Because you lose your power when you do that. You talk about superpowers, it renders you incapable of diplomacy and neutralization, when you start to say, how could he say that about me? Or how could he downgrade me like that or whatever, you know?   Anne: That's what it is. I think part of it is the emotional aspect of it and keep the emotions out of the business. Take it out.   Lau: Take it out, take it out.   Anne: It's so hard for us because our product is so personal to us. It is our voice. It is who we are. It is our brand. And so when we get treated by a potential client and them, I guess, diminishing our worth in terms of no, I can't pay that. Or no, that's not in our budget, we have to not take that personally because it's not about us; it's about business.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And some clients literally don't have the budget and we have to just accept that and not be offended, not be angry.   Lau: Mm-Hmm. And isn't it okay, Anne, that they don't want it, they don't like it, they don't agree with it? It's still a free country. You know what I mean? It's like they have a right to not think that's fair or to not wanna put the money into it. They have a right to do anything they wanna do. One technique that I use that I found just for my own sake, that preserves me in the process is whatever happens in terms of the fee structure and the negotiation and the chit chat, I always immediately redirect. If I hear something negative coming out, I immediately affirm it. I hear it, I hear you. And then I redirect it onto something positive, and nine times outta ten, it works really well.   So like for instance, I say, oh, my fee is this for whatever, for a demo. And they go, oh my God, that's expensive. And I'll say, well, you know, it's an investment. You're, you're investing in your future, whatever. And they'll say, well, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Let me think about that. I'll say, great, think about it. I'm here for you when you come back. And in the meantime, I appreciate you sharing your story with me. That was valuable to me. And they go, well, thank you. That's sweet of you to say that. And then the conversation is redirected. And I mean that, I'm not just saying it as a sales tactic. I mean it from Lau that I'm gonna walk away saying I may or may not close a client. But I heard a really interesting story and I learned something from that conversation, and now I know something about what I can't do or what I can't do.   And so you have to have your takeaways too from the selling process. It's not just about the number, it's about I'm constantly reevaluating my own worth, reevaluating my own value, reevaluating how I view the business and perceive the human contact. And that's worth its weight and gold. Right? .   Anne: Well, it's so funny that you say that. And I have multiple aspects of my business where I, I, I mean, it's not just about voiceover clients. I have coaching clients, I have demo clients, I have VO Peeps memberships, I have VO BOSS marketing that I sell to people. And I'm constantly having to, if people are like, well, they're on a subscription, and they decide that -- end of year, it's always the time when people reevaluate their expenses and they're saying, well, was it worth it or was it not? And so whenever I get those emails saying, well, I'm looking to cancel because you know, I'm not seeing the value, I will always have, thank you so much for your feedback. I'm grateful for it. Here's my thought. Here's my thought. Think of this, think of that. And here's the value that we're providing, and we appreciate you and the value, and let us try to work something out. And I'll usually do that once.   And it's amazing how many times I can recoup someone by pointing out the value that they might have missed over the years or the month, or this is how we're bringing value to your brand. And so I think it's worth a shot rather than just saying, well, okay. I mean, I could just say okay and not care about it. But I'm always responding back with, thank you for your feedback. Thank you for your input. I appreciate that. I completely understand. It's hard at the end of the year for everyone. Here are some thoughts to consider.   Lau: Perfect.   Anne: And that is something that you can do for a client if you raise your rates with them. If they say no or they push back, you can say, thank you, I appreciate your feedback. And that's how you respond. Really, you have to just respond with grace. There's no other way really, and gratefulness for them being your client. But I say, yeah, stay firm with, here's my new rates. And I don't think that your rates should again, be outside of, you don't wanna go crazy and price yourself out of the market. I think that there's an acceptable range where you can raise your rates and it's not ridiculous. So I have vendors for me right now that are raising their rates and I have to figure out how I'm going to absorb that cost or raise my rates in return.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: But as voice talent, voice artist, voice actors, absolutely. I think it's worth at this point, or at whatever time, once a year to evaluate what you're charging and then consider whether it's time to raise your rates. Because we all need to progress. We all need to continue the profit, the economy, other things happen around us and we need to accommodate for that.   Lau: Yes. If you work on your plan, you work on your action plan for the year or for the quarter, you'll know what you wanna be grossing, you'll know what you wanna be taking in, and you'll know how close or how far away I am from that based on the rates that I'm charging right now and the volume that I deal with.   Anne: Look at the numbers, BOSSes. I know it's scary, but I think the first thing is look at the numbers. And I think that's probably the most scary thing for most of us, probably scarier than an audition or a gig that we really want. It's scarier to look at the numbers. What's your incoming, what's your outgoing, what are your rates now? And have the courage to step back, look at it, and raise those rates if you need to. So great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Anne, can I throw in one more thing for the road?   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Because. I just thought of this and I know you're like this and I know I'm like this. I think we care so much and that's why we get scared. If we didn't care --   Anne: Makes sense.   Lau: -- at all, we couldn't give a two hoots about what they think, whatever, we'll raise it sky high -- no, it's because we care and the good people deeply care about the people first. And so we're always regarding their feelings and how they view things and what, what makes life easier for them. And that's a wonderful trait to have. We just have to balance that with taking care of our selves as well.   Anne: Absolutely. Great point. Thank you, Lau. Oh, great topic. Absolutely great topic. And I think we all need to address it at one point during the year in our careers. So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect network and talk about money and rates like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want you to know about a chance where you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye!   Lau: See you then! Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  Fear is a powerful force, and one that can hold you back from reaching your full potential. But fear doesn't have to be a bad thing. If you let fear in and learn from it, you'll be able to overcome the obstacles that keep you from achieving success as a voice actor. This may seem counterintuitive, but when you're afraid of something, whether it's a new genre, emerging technology, or a difficult conversation, you can use that fear as motivation to push yourself beyond your comfort zone. Bosses, you can't grow without fear. Listen up to learn how you can turn what you're most afraid of into positive actions that will transform your voice over career…   Transcript    >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey hey, everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy to bring back to the show, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey, how are you, Anne? Anne: I'm doing good, actually. oh, wait, I should start that over because I need like, ooh, . Lau: Ooh. Are you doing sound effects or no? Anne: I'm doing sound effects, Lau. I needed sound effects for today's -- Lau: I got one for you. Ready?  Anne: All right. (breathing sound) What's that? Lau: You know, that's the serial killer. That's Mike Meyers and all of that. Friday the 13th. Anne: Oh my God. See, so I don't watch horror films or scary movies. Lau: Gotcha. Anne: But what, that actually brings us to a great topic for today since it is near the holiday, the scary, spooky holiday. What scares you? What scares you, BOSSes, and how do you deal with fear? I think that's a really great topic. Lau, I mean, we've talked about fear prior to this, but we haven't really concentrated on it. I am a firm believer that you need to do something scary every single day, in order to grow.  Lau: I love that.  Anne: In order to grow. Lau: That's what the great Eleanor Roosevelt said, right? I do something every day that scares you. I would agree with that. I would definitely agree with that. And if it means just simply stepping outside your box, getting uncomfortable, we have these conversations every day, right, Anne, with the clients and each other, like how do we get uncomfortable to stretch ourselves and to learn? And yeah, to get a little scared, to get a little frightened, like get the dopamine kick going so that you can push yourself and really stretch yourself? Yeah. I think it's important to get scared. Anne: So what's frightening, do you think, for most new talent when they come into this industry and try to be a success? Maybe that's the scariest thing, right?  Lau: Yeah. Yeah. I think fear is the number one factor for failure.  Anne: I do too, fear of failure, right? Lau: Yeah. It can mean your ultimate success or your ultimate demise, and how you respect fear, how you treat fear, how you accept fear into your life, and then how you overcome it. I really think that you have to just grab a hold of fear and understand it's healthy to feel fear. Your survival fight or flight technique does kick in, right, when you're doing new things.  But to answer your question, I think a lot of things scare newbies. And one is, you know how the market can be saturated. It can be lots and lots of people that are working, that you may perceive to be ahead of you or professionals, and you're coming in and you don't know exactly what you're doing just yet. And feeling like that fish out of water can be a very scary experience. Anne: Yeah. Well, let's start with that, right? Not necessarily knowing what you're doing. I think that was in the very beginning for me, coming out of the corporate world or wherever you're coming from to get into this industry is maybe, number one, not knowing everything there is to know about the industry. And by the way, we all don't know everything, but , you gain experience over the years. Fear of navigating a business when if you have never done that before, I think that probably surpasses all of my fears. I mean, first you've got the fear, am I good enough to make it and to be successful? But then it's like, oh gosh, well, what do I do? How do I create a business? What do I even do to start? Do I need to have a DBA? Do I need to incorporate? What sort of things do I need to do to run this business and accounting? Like I've never done accounting, I've never negotiated a job. All of those things. And it all seems to just kind of happen at once in the beginning of your career. And I think that that can be overwhelming to some people. Lau: You know, when you said accounting, your eyes got really, really big. It was like a 1920s talkie. It was like accounting? Anne: Accounting. Oh my gosh. Lau: No!  Anne: Right?  Lau: But, but see, the physiological reaction you do have to ideas and concepts that really do cause this physical distress. And I would say failure overall, like the fear of failure. What if this doesn't go well? What if I am terrible? What if I don't make money? What if I can't get a job? What if, what if, what if? That's really scary to a lot of people. Anne: Right? And I'll tell you, when I first started full-time and we moved from the east coast to the west coast, I had said to my husband, Jerry, until I get on my feet, hopefully you'll get a job that can pay you a little bit better. And so it can kind of compensate, and we'll be able to afford the cost of living. And once he got here, literally, I think it was nine months, they laid him off. And that became very scary because I still was getting my wheels turning and spinning and making money full-time for the business. But once that second source of finance kind of fell , it was like, whoa. Now I was really scared because I felt like I had a lot of pressure to do well and contribute to the household because he was kind of taking care of things until I was getting my business set up. So that really put a lot of fear. But what was cool about it in a way, is that it motivated me. So fear really worked as a motivation for me to get my butt in gear. And if I was afraid of anything, like how do I market, how do I -- certainly took a step towards educating myself. And I think that is one way to really combat your fears, is to educate yourself on the thing that you are most afraid of, like accounting or running a business. Do I need to register my business? How do I register my business? How can I get voiceover jobs? How can I market myself? Well, I think a good thing to start with is education. And I love the internet. I love Google. Like people have called me Anne GanGoogle because yes, I use it for everything. Right? Lau: That's catchy. Anne: Yeah. I mean, you don't have to go to the library anymore, and all the young people are gonna go, what? What you used to have to go to the library? Yeah. We used to have to go -- Lau: What is a library? Anne: -- the library and check out books. But now at our fingertips, really, we have so much information, so much information that we can use to educate ourselves. And I think that's the first step to helping you to challenge that fear and get over that fear. Education, knowledge is power. Lau: Mm. Education is key. Yeah, I'm right over there because knowledge is power. And you do feel, we're talking about superheros, right? We're talking about how we get empowered and powerful in the industry, especially when you're new. This is true of anything. When you're new at something, you're learning, you're, you're trying to get experiential and it takes time. It's not an overnight success.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: It really does take time. And just kind of understanding that, having the knowledge, having the education. Totally, totally good. And the fear, I mean, when I think about fear, I think of how does community, my family, my friends, my colleagues, how do they view me? What are they saying to me? I might be a little fearful. Are they gonna judge me? Are they gonna think this is for real? Are they gonna support me? Are they going to try to stop me or put a boundary in my way? I've met a lot of clients, and I know you have as well, unfortunately, that didn't have the support, and in fact had sort of axes thrown at them all the way through and dodging people just to get to where they want to be. They just didn't have the support system. So that is scary. That is scary, not having a tribe, not having that community surrounding you that supports you. Anne: Yeah, exactly. I think that in addition to education, having the support group around you, and it just brings me to the episode that we did about your VO tribe. So very important to have that support, especially because we work by ourselves. We're typically in our booths and coworkers are not around us. And so having that verbal support where if you've got a question or you're nervous, you can reach out to someone and get some support there. And family is very important, I think, because uh, , I think maybe all of us have had at least one member of the family that has said, what do you do? Like, what is this? ? What is that?  Lau: What is, why would you -- Anne: What is is voiceover? Yeah. I don't understand. So, I do think that the support of your family, first and foremost, is wonderful. And if you don't have that, the VO community is a wonderful community. I'd say be very careful and social media can be wonderful, but it can also be, oh gosh, it can also not be so wonderful. So , I think that if you have accountability groups or support groups on Facebook, people that you can write to, ask questions to, that's gonna be very helpful for you as well. I think that there's something to be said for, yes, it's great to have that support, but I think it's also something that if you can challenge yourself on a daily basis, like I said, try to do something every day that scares you a little bit. Like if you've never gotten out there to market or sent an email to an agent, I think that writing those kind of tasks down, things that scare you, and then attempting to maybe backtrack the steps that it takes to get you to that point and just try to attack one of those every day. Lau: Absolutely. And that is scary because again, it's new. It's something you're not accustomed to. You don't know, am I doing this the right way? What are they expecting of me? I think that is one of the areas that people stop. They just get stopped in their track. And I thought of another one, Anne, for you, this is very common, I see this, the fear of technology. And many of us fall into it at different levels, right? Like how technology driven you are, how knowledgeable you are about equipment. Are you good at setting up your studio? How do you upgrade and level up? I mean, these are all areas that terrify people. Really. Anne: I agree. I agree. And you know, technology, see, you hit my soft spot there. And BOSSes that don't know -- I mean, I think a lot of BOSSes know me, but if you don't, I am very, very much technology oriented. I worked in technology, I still work in technology, and I like to be on the bleeding edge of it, speaking of things that are scary. And one of the reasons I like that is because I feel like for me, I always take the stance that technology is there to help us progress, to help us advance in society. And it's not evil. You can certainly take that stance if you'd like, that technology is evil. But I don't think that either way you're going to stop the advancement of technology. I think technology would be, oh gosh, so much further if we didn't put a stop to it. If humans didn't say, no, no, no, no, no all the time, I think we would be further along in our technological advancements.  And I like to believe in the good of technology. And that includes, I speak the words of synthetic voices. We're not stopping them. They're coming. And I think we just need to know about them and know all that we can about them in order for us to really be able to manage our business. We have to be able to manage our business 'cause they're going to be alongside us; whether we partake in them or not, we're going to need to learn how to deal with them. So if they happen to take parts of the industry away, or people prefer the synthetic voices for maybe shorter news blasts or telephony prompts, whatever it may be, we need to evolve in our industry to kind of work alongside that. And maybe what we need to do is hone our performance skills in another genre. The first thing that I always tell my students is make sure that you are acting, and you are acting as human as possible. Because that's exactly the opposite of what the synthetic voices are at this moment. So we can offer a product that is unique to us. So work on your performance skills so that you can be more human than ever. And I think that that's one way to face the challenge. And also for any technological piece of this business that you're scared of or not familiar with, take a class. Lau: Yes.  Anne: I mean, educate yourself or outsource that. Just make sure that you understand enough about the technology so that when you outsource that you can manage the person that is taking care of your technology. And I'll say one thing probably most people like to outsource is their website. I know what a website is capable of. I know what I want in a website, but I don't make websites. And so for that reason, I hire someone to help me. But I know enough about that website that I can log into the website, I can go and make tiny changes on the content. Or if I don't know how to do that specifically, I have a methodology to make those changes. Right? I have somebody who can make those changes, and then I have a backup to somebody that can make those changes, so that I am never going to be at a loss for controlling that technology. Lau: Hmm. I love that. And at the end of the day, if you wanna be a voiceover talent, just the bottom line is, like you have to create a home studio. You don't -- Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: -- have a choice anymore. The industry standard. The best practices that you're gonna have. Even minimal, but some sort of recording system at home that you can feel good about, you can feel strong about, you can troubleshoot, you can upgrade. I think the days of relying on going to other studios and having engineers do everything for you is passed, is passé. So as a VO talent, it's really a necessary evil, so to speak that, you know, enough base knowledge that you could cut an audition for yourself and feel good about it.  Anne: Yeah. Well, and just not worry that you don't have good sound. I had a wonderful series on BOSS audio with Tim Tippetts, and just the simple fact -- now he built this studio, custom built this studio for me. And I walk into it every day understanding that this is solid. I am not going to have any type of environment acoustic issues in this studio. The only thing that might go wrong at this point, 'cause the structure is solid and the structure is built. And that is a major level of fear, I think, for most talent when they get into the industry, is getting that space, right, acoustically sound and ready to produce broadcast audio. And so really, I can walk into the studio every day, and I don't have the fear that my environment is not working for me. And that is a huge relief. That's a huge relief. And that was something, again, I outsourced someone to do for me. And it took care of that fear. It alleviates the fear of that now. Now my fear is that, I don't know, maybe my cable is bad or my microphone for whatever reason. But again, that's another technological part that I understand that if something happens to that technology, I know how to fix it. Or if I don't know how to fix it, I can replace it with the backup. And I go back to -- I know I've had an episode prior to this with Erikka J about backups and technology and back up your backups. And that's always a good thing so that you're never in a spot where you cannot complete the job. And that causes fear. That causes stress. Lau: It does. And having people on your team, whether they're contractors that you can call in  people that you can delegate to help fix things. Oh yeah. Uh, folks, you know, that are reps that can call in for technical advice. Like you have to have that ready to go.  Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: You can't wait until something goes wrong.  Anne: Absolutely.  Lau: Right? So, and it to alleviate the stress, alleviate the fear. I got another one for you. How about the fear of your voice, your vocal apparatus not working well? Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: Not being able to have longevity  health or having health issues, related issues like allergies or asthma or anything coming into play. Because after all, we're just, and there's so many things in the world -- yeah. Acid reflux. We're human beings in the world. So we have to live every day and figure out, okay, how do I live as clean as I can? How do I take care of my body and my mind? How do I do all that? But when something goes wrong, see, this is where professional actors and singers really have it over the average person, like if sick with the flu or God forbid Covid, or they have a terrible allergy attack, they know how to overcome it. They have techniques. They have herbal remedies, they know what vocal rest means. They know how to work through the sickness. Whereas the average person doesn't. So I think that there's a fear in folks at all ages that, oh, am I gonna be able to get through a two or three hour session? Am I gonna be able to have quality sound from morning 'til night? Anne: Well, I think in terms of voice, am I going to be able to make a two hour session or a three -- depending on what you're doing, right, that's definitely a concern. If you're doing video games, you're doing efforts and you're really working that, that instrument hard, then there are, you know, exercises of course, that you can do to build those muscles up. And of course there are sometimes that you absolutely cannot help it if you are sick. Right? And you have a cold. And so in those cases, I think to alleviate any kind of fear that you're, you're gonna lose work, then work on those relationships with your clients. Right? So that if you are sick, we are all human. I mean, it's very understandable. And we did just say we're still going through a pandemic or we're, you know -- that's, that's very understandable. And I think that clients will be understanding if you've got a good relationship with that. And so I think to alleviate the fear there is, have good relationships with your clients and be authentic. Be human. Lau: Be human. And Anne, I actually had something happen not too long ago with one of our talents in our roster that is a wonderful talent, but he didn't make the right choice. And what was the choice? He was sick. He was sick one day. And he chose to go through a session with a client and the client listened to it. They knew he was sick, he was at his home studio so he could do this easily. And they said, we have to tell you, Lau, we're a little annoyed because he only has half of his voice. It's not what we hired and we don't know why he didn't cancel and reschedule the session. Now we got to go through it again. And he was fine. We didn't charge them more money. The talent was like apologetic. He said, I should have told you. I didn't wanna be a nonprofessional by not showing up. I said, It's not about not showing up. It's about communicating what is actually happening and allowing your client to make that choice. Let them make the choice. Anne: Oh, absolutely, your voice is your product. And so, it really becomes, at that point, I think professionally, remember that our voice is our product. And if our voice is not in good shape, you wouldn't deliver a product that is tattered and torn and worn and raspy. If you were a client, you certainly wouldn't want that. So you always have to be conscious of that fact. And that is, your voice should be in tiptop shape because that is your product. And the more professional thing is to, yeah, when it's not in tiptop shape, have that relationship with the client to say, look, I'm not feeling well and I just wanna give you a heads up. And I do that all the time with my clients, and they're very, very understanding. I've had clients wait like weeks, like a good couple of, if they have the time. I mean, if it's not a thing where you have to do a live session and it has to be done yesterday, but I've had some clients that have been able to wait a couple weeks, push things out because they value the product. They value the product that I give to them. And so, again, I think that that's something that to alleviate any kind of fear, work on those relationships, nurture those relationships, and yeah. You're gonna be fine. What other things, Lau, do you think voice talent are afraid of these days? Lau: Uh, well, I would say, uh, many voice talent create a healthy fear of doing jobs or taking copy that they would consider to be outside of their wheelhouse. They would consider to be not as comfortable for them. If they're like, let's say they're commercial talent, and they're typically doing commercial work and that's what they do. Sometimes they're not as open to the idea of doing, say character work or animation. 'Cause they say, I don't really do that. That's not in my wheelhouse. Or, I don't really do a lot of narration work. I'm not that kind of actor. I'm not that kind of person. Or they'll even say, I'm not an actor at all. I'm just a voiceover talent.  Anne: Yeah. Yeah.  Lau: Right.  It's so funny to me to say that because I consider every voice of talent an actor to some degree. Anne: Absolutely. Me too. Lau: But there is a fear of auditioning or submitting for jobs that are not within your branding or not within the kinds of jobs that you're typically getting. Like something bad will happen. They'll, they won't hire me and they'll call, call me a bad talent. I get, I won't get work in other areas as well. That's a fear. Anne: Yeah. I think absolutely, to stretch yourself outside of your comfort zone. And there's lots of great coaches out there that can help you if you want to explore a different genre and get good at that genre. And even with auditions, I always try to go with my gut when I see auditions and I say, okay, that feels like it's my wheelhouse. But yeah, every once in a while I'll look at an audition, I'll say, well, what the heck? Let's give it a shot. And it's so funny because a lot of times the ones that I just say, well, let me give me a shot, surprisingly, I'll do well or I'll get the gig. And so I think, you know, stretching outside of your comfort and you click that send and you're like, oh my God, I hope again, if you ever had one of those turn around on you, I think that would give you the confidence to stretch yourself outside of your comfort zone. I'm gonna name something else that I'm pretty sure a lot of talent, even talent that have been around for a while and have done this for a while, is negotiating a job if they don't have an agent on their behalf. Right? Or raising their rates. Right? Or sticking to their rates.  Lau: Wait a second, that's the best ever.  Anne: Right, right?  Lau: Especially for women, but yes. Yes for everyone.  Anne: And people always say to me, well, I don't know what to charge. Okay. First of all, we are entrepreneurs, right? I mean, in reality it is our business. And so it is up to us, unless we've got an agent working on our behalf, but for any other jobs, let's say I do a lot of non-broadcast, e-learning, corporate, you know, explainer, that style where I work directly with the client, and half the time, of course I have guidelines, right? There's always the GVAA rate guide, there's my own guidelines that I've been working with since I started. But if this is something new or it's slightly different and there's nothing, there's no standard written, I'm pretty much pulling that price out of the air, out of the air. Lau: Out of the hat. Anne: Out of the hat. And I'm always kind of verging on more than I think because I wanna start the negotiation high so that I can come down to the price where I feel like would be fair. And so, just so you know, we can be in this business for, I've been in the business for like, gosh, oh my God, 16 years already. And sometimes I'll have a price that I'll just have to pull out a thin air. And I'm guessing at it. And so know that, guys. I don't want you to think that all the pricing is all secure and within a chart. Sometimes I am just winging it. And once you get the client that says, okay, great, that sounds, when can you have it by then? That gives you the confidence to just continue on the negotiation battle. So always, always know that you are worth money. Please do not negotiate a low rate because you feel that you're new or that you feel that you don't have the experience because you have invested in your business and therefore you are worth the money. And so, yeah.  Lau: And you said the magic word, invest. I was thinking there's a fear of investment.  Anne: Mm. Oh gosh, yes. Yes. Lau: I'm terrified.  Not me, really. I'm just saying I'm terrified of spending money on coaching or scared of spending too much money on my studio, or I'm afraid of how much a microphone will cost. And there's a lot of fear around, how much do I need to invest? And you have to think of it like, is it a cost or is it an investment? Is there an ROI in this? Am I really expecting money to come back? Or is this just a sinkhole of just like throwing money in where I don't know what's gonna happen at the end of the day? So having vision about my investment and my return, and really being very mindful that that's what I want to have happen. Does it mean it will happen? No. But what it means is you're focusing your brain and you're focusing your intentional energy on that execution. So it's more likely that you'll have a positive outcome than going, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid I don't have the money, and I'm afraid, I'm afraid. So that was one thing. You know, the other thing too that came to my mind, Anne, was success. Anne: Oh my gosh.  Lau: A lot of people are afraid of success. Anne: Totally agree with you there. And I, and I wanna just say like for myself personally, right? There comes a time --you cannot grow -- I can attest to this, you cannot grow without investment and you cannot grow without a little bit of fear. And so the investment for me has come to the point where I am one person. I can only physically do so many things within the 24 hours of the day. Right? And so when I want to grow beyond that, then I have to think about outsourcing. I have to think about that as an investment in my business so that somebody can help free up some time for me so that I can do more voiceover jobs. I can coach, or I can do whatever it is that I wanna do to grow my business.  And then I have to be at the point where I say, all right, I have this level of success that I'm at now. I feel comfortable. I'm able to support my household. I'm feeling good. And just when it hits that point, I say, all right, what's next? Right? How am I going to grow? How am I going to expand? And I'm always get to these levels, right? And I always try to address it. I'm gonna say on an average quarterly, right? Within the year, what's next for me? And I right now am at this point right now where, what's next? And so I know what has to come next for me in order to continue to grow. I think about it, I'm like, okay, I have to go through a series of steps to get there and it's gonna be a lot of work. And I just go, oh God, I had so much work, but I have to get through it.  Once I get through it, I can then bump myself up another level. Right? So I just consider myself going up that stairway to more success. And so I know it's coming up the road for me ahead, and I know that it's going to be a lot of work, and it makes me tired right now. But I do know that if I don't do it, I will not grow, and I will not succeed further. And to me, I always love a good challenge, I think, I think the one thing for me, why I love entrepreneurship and why I love this business so much is that it allows us to just go as high as we absolutely can. There's no limit, right? Lau: Yeah.  Anne: There's no limit. I mean, and, and that's the thing. You have to allow yourself to think big and to think, wow, there really isn't a limit to how much I can grow. And to me's a game. It becomes a game. You know, a challenge. And I love a good challenge. For me, that's how I get through it, instead of the fear, right? I consider it to be a challenge and a game. And it's a game that I play with myself. So I'm not in any sort of danger of necessarily hurting other people because it's me. It's a game I play against myself. I mean, that's out of myself and working myself to craziness. But that's my whole goal, is to not have to work so much. And so that is going to help me to grow.  Lau: Right. And who's keeping score? I mean, at the end of the day, it's really about, you. You're keeping score. You're the one who's setting your goals, how you wanna achieve throughout the year and throughout your quarters. You're really the one who's paying attention to that because it's skin in the game. You have the most vested interest in the success of your business. And I always say, be careful what you wish for. You may get. Because if you get it, meaning if you get that job that you're auditioning for, you get that creative studio that you always wanted, well, now what's next? It doesn't mean you can lay back and chill and bask. It means like you have to push a little more. You have to move a little faster. You have to intensify your goals. In a sense that ceiling is just not even there. It doesn't even exist.  Anne: Exactly. Exactly. It just keeps moving up. So. Lau: Keeps moving up, right? Keeps moving up. Anne: Yeah. Love it. Great conversation. So BOSSes out there, face those fears. Fear is good. I believe fear, it leads to growth. Education, knowledge is power. And know that you're not alone.  Lau: I love that. You're never alone. Even when you're in your booth, you're never alone. Like who are you connecting to? You're always connected to someone who also has your vested interest in mind because they wanna have a successful product, they wanna have a successful process, and they want to have a relationship with you. So always consider the positive versus the negative, and that's gonna help you alleviate those fears along the way.  Anne: Yeah. Well, great discussion. BOSSes. Fear, you can conquer. We have the faith in you. So I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS and conquer those fears. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also from our other sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care, here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. All right, guys. BOSSes, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Nothing in this industry happens fast. You have to trust that things will happen when they're supposed to. In this episode, Anne & Lau share how trust can help you build your business and a strong, reliable network. Don't sabotage relationships before they even begin—if someone shows interest in working with you, take their word at face value and don't let fear of failure keep them at arm's length! Give yourself permission to learn and make mistakes along the way so that you can grow as an artist and a person. We all want our business to succeed, but sometimes things don't go as planned. That's ok! Negative experiences should teach you something and give you an opportunity for growth. Bosses, don't worry. You can trust Anne & Lau to lead you in the right direction. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me Lau Lapides. Woo! Lau: Hey everyone. Good to see you, Anne. Anne: Special guest, co-host. Oh my gosh, Lau, I have had the best time having you as co-host. Lau: I love it. I think you and I are like sisters from another mother. I love it. I think we got so much to talk about. So much to say. We have a great rapport. Anne: We do. We do. And you know what? I really have a lot of trust in you, and that is something that I feel, when people are starting off in the industry, they need to find someone to trust, a tribe, a coach, a mentor, in order to help them get through the process. And I think trust is a huge ask for the talent, but I think it's absolutely necessary for success. Lau: It is. I mean, you have to trust someone at some point in order to further your education and further your career. And really be able to also kind of ignite personalized relationships where you're forecasting to people, the right people, well-selected people, that you're gonna share thoughts that are authentic. You're gonna be helpful in their journey. You're gonna share things that are uncomfortable. I mean, that's really how we gain trust. And it doesn't happen overnight. It really is time. It takes time to gather trust. Anne: Yeah. And I think a big factor in trust is obviously the fear that seems to be very prevalent when people start off in this industry. The fear that they're not good enough, they're not gonna be successful. And I think it leads them to just not trust in themselves, not trust in other people they might have worked with or people on the internet. And I understand that in a lot of ways where you've gotta be careful, but I feel as though if you have a member of the tribe, you've got to just invest in that trust, to hope that they're guiding you in the right direction. Now, that is not to say that you should not educate yourself, right, so that you know who you can trust. Right? And kind of feel your way around that. And if you do not trust, I feel that it's going to inhibit you from being successful in the industry, because otherwise you're not gonna have someone that's gonna help build you back up or build your confidence up when you're feeling low, when maybe you're not getting the jobs that you're expecting. And I think a lot of times people make a big investment, let's say, in coaching or in a demo, or workshops, whatever they do. And immediately if they don't get a job, because they're not familiar enough with the industry, they immediately question themselves. They question the capabilities for anything and immediately feel like they need to get a return on their investment in the next week. Which I wish I had gotten a return on my investment in the following week after I did my training. But this is a process. And not only do you have to trust in yourself, you've gotta trust in the process. And that means researching coaches, researching talent out there in the industry that seem to have had some level of success. Reading -- I'm all about reading, reading, reading -- reading books, joining web forums, and finding out who are the respected people in the industry. And doing that education first. I mean, I know in the beginning when you first start coaching and creating a demo, and there's lots of people that talk about, oh, there's scammers out there that are gonna take all your money and create a demo, and then it's not gonna be a good demo, or it's not gonna be a professional demo. And I think that a lot of people are scared about that. But I also think that you can take the matters into your own hands. And again, research, research, research, research, join groups, read books, find the people that are well respected in the industry. Lau: Absolutely. I do think there's a level of trust that you have to have in yourself that is a leap of faith.  Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: Okay. So let's say you're starting out, Let's say you're doing your research, you're reading, you're in the industry mags, and you know what's going on with conferences and you know what the best practices are, so to speak. But you need time to have that reveal itself, right? What we see and what we read and what we know and what we hear isn't always our truth through our own experiences. So you have to trust that you are smart enough, you're motivated and thoughtful enough. You're focused enough that you're gonna start to put your trust, engage who that tribe is as you put it together, and not get upset when you put your trust into something or someone and it doesn't work out, because that is called experience. And experience is not always happy and fun and positive. Sometimes it's making a mistake. And we have to learn from those mistakes. We have to work through those and not make those again and say, wow, I'm glad I made that mistake, because now I know it doesn't work and what I shouldn't be trusting in the industry, and really move through it. But if we never give our trust anything, if we're never 100% all in and know that we've got skin in the game, then we never really tested our theories, our methodologies, and our teachings. We never really tested it because we weren't willing to give it over 100% to see what great things can come of it. Now, I don't know about you, but like you're super successful. I'm successful. A big part of that success is testing, hit or miss experimentation. And what happened to the joy of trying things, of experimenting?  Anne: Absolutely.  Lau: It's like so many people need to have this guarantee from the start. What I'll save. Anne: The safety net. It's like the trophy. They need the trophy. Right? They need the trophy right away. And the thing of it is, is, and Lau, you and I have spoken about this, my overnight success took me many, many, many years. Right? And if you're just getting into the industry and you're upset because you're not booking a week after you submitted your demo or started auditioning, trust in the process, give it time. When I talk with my students, I try to tell them that it is not an overnight process, that it does take time. But I still feel as though some people just have to live that or experience that. There's a lot of people who never get past the making a demo stage, because I believe they do not trust in the process. They don't give themselves enough of a chance to grow and to grow into the industry and start to see that success, which is not gonna happen tomorrow. I'm sorry, you're not gonna get that prize gig tomorrow.  And it's okay. It is okay. You just need to again, have trust, have faith in yourself. I'll tell you what, Lau, I am a big believer, and anybody's listening to this podcast knows that I trust my gut. I live my life by my gut. And I run my business by my gut too, believe it or not. If it doesn't feel right, then I'm taking more steps to educating myself on to maybe why it doesn't feel right or what I might do to change it. As you mentioned before, just kind of take those little steps and change direction if you need to. Lau: That's right. That's exactly right. And just be okay with that. Be okay with not knowing. Be okay with sometimes trusting the wrong person or the wrong process or whatever, because that's how we grow, that's how we learn, that's how we shape it up. The problem comes in where you trust something, it doesn't work your way, and then you keep trusting it, and you keep trusting it. And you never learn from that pro -- You don't redirect and pivot.    Anne: Or -- yeah, exactly. You don't redirect or pivot or you simply let it scare you away. Right? Because you've been burned once. Lau: Yeah, or shut you down. Anne: I will have students that have come to me that have not had positive experiences with coaches or their demo production or whatever it might be, and it will make them very shy and very wary to continue moving on. And I always say, use those experiences, like it's okay, like you said, it's okay to maybe the person that you thought you trusted didn't turn out to be what you thought. Right? It's okay, learn from it. Turn that into a positive experience and learn from that and grow from that. And so I'm always trying to tell people don't beat yourself up over it. I mean, honestly now you know. And so boom, that was a wonderful lesson.  I'm always trying to learn lessons from things that didn't go quite right or what people might perceive to be failures. And I don't even like to think of the word failure. I just say, oh, okay, well that didn't work out. So what can I learn from that's, and how can I grow from that? And that will turn most of those experiences into a positive one for me so that I can continue to grow and progress forward. Lau: That's right. And be smart about how you trust. It's not about just, I trust this. I'm putting my trust in this. It's like, how do I trust? That famous presidential, you know, trust, but verify. Verify. Meaning do the due diligence, do the homework, make sure as best as you can, is this person who they say they really are? Is this process what it really represents? Is there testimonial? Are there accolades? Are there honors that I should be aware of that build the ethos, build the credibility so I can trust even more? I wanna do some verification. It doesn't mean that I'm putting them in the hot seat under a light bulb, duct taping them to a chair and grilling them. It just -- right? You and I've both been through that a lot. Right?  Anne: Exactly. Lau: You know, like a whole FBI scene. It's not that, but there is an intelligence in saying, let me do some background check. Let me just Google, like everyone has Google. Why can't you just go on Google and see, is this person have bad reviews or seem dangerous or I don't know. But the point is, do that little bit of homework to verify, to make you feel that much more comfortable in who you're starting to put your trust into.  Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And if you cannot take that little tiny leap of faith and then see where that goes, right, and grow from it, you're gonna be stagnant and you're gonna sit there with demo in hand and never really progress any further.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: But I will say over and over again, and you as -- Lau, with an agency in, in casting for so long, you must know how long it can take when somebody's first getting out into the industry to actually start being consistent in booking jobs. And even when you are consistent in booking jobs, every one of us has a time where there might be a lull in our business and really that is the place when you feel, oh my gosh, why am I not getting any work? I must suck. You know what I mean? Or that's it. I've gotta get out of the industry and they panic. Right? So many people panic and just trust the process. Again, find those people that you do trust that can help you through those times where you are starting to mentally -- I think the mental panic here can really be something that inhibits successful voiceover actors. And sometimes they'll say, well, alright, that's cool because more work for me. Lau: Yeah. . Absolutely. There's an ebb and flow to everything. You know? There's ebbs and flows, highs and lows to every single business out there. It's not possible to be super successful in making tons of money every single day or getting jobs every single day. That would be an unrealistic expectation. Anne: Lau, let me stop you right there. I love that you brought that up lot. Do you think that the majority of talent book something every single day? Lau: , I don't know anyone that books something every single day.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: I just don't know anyone. And I know a lot of really busy VO talent that are recording all the time, but are they booking every single day? No, they're not.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: They're editing, they're catching up, they're marketing, they're doing retakes, they're visiting their mom and dad, you know, but they're not booking every single day. That would be -- Anne: Right? Lau: I won't say impossible, but I'll say it's highly improbable.  Anne: Even people that are working every day, let's say you're, you know, in the promo genre or that kind of thing, where they say there's the golden handcuffs. Right? You are probably working, right, that same network job that just comes in every single day. I'm on a lot of telephone rosters, so I work every single day doing telephony, but it's because I'm on a roster that I expect that work, and I know that work's coming.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: But acquiring new work and getting new clients every single day, I agree with you. I don't know many people -- I think it's highly unlikely. And so that's one, I think misconception that people new to this industry might have. Like, oh, well, okay, I need to make so much. I remember constructing it like this, I would like to make so much money per month. Right? $10,000 a month. So what would it take to make $10,000 a month? Right? For 12 months, that's your six figures salary. So what will it take to book $10,000 a month? Well, if I could book 10 corporate jobs in the month, right, and do that consistently, then yeah, I'll have no problem.  Now that may or may not happen for a while. Right? That could happen very sporadically. You could get a few corporate jobs. You could get 10 jobs, 20 jobs in one month, but maybe the following month you may get one. And so because of that difference, right, in terms of consistency, that is where I think most people start to panic and lose their trust in the process of what this industry is all about. And again, it's kind of life as a freelancer, I like to say entrepreneur, right? But freelancer is the same thing. Right? So we don't know where our next job is coming from. And that really has to be where your trust in the process lies, or trust in a mentor, trust in your people that you talk to in your accountability group. Trust that the process will work out and that it will be okay. Lau: And the truth is, we don't see what's happening in the background of anyone's world. So those folks that you're perceiving are booking every day have tons of work in the pipeline. So they're lining up the pipeline of work like last year, like five years ago. Like it's not the booking of today that they're reaching out today; it's the reach out oftentimes from months, if not years ago, that are just landing through and coming through on their pipeline. So in essence, they've done the footwork -- Anne: They've planted the seeds. Lau: -- done the preliminary work, they planted those seeds to keep that pipeline full so that it looks to the outside world like they're booking every day. And you know, the other thing I want to say too, Anne, was that the trust of everything -- when I think about how many of our systems in our world are on trust systems, like even just going into a restaurant, you're ordering food and drink and all this stuff, and they are trusting you that you have money to pay for that. They're giving you the product first and saying, devour this, you're never gonna give this back to us. We know it and we're gonna trust that you're gonna pay for that. Right?  So we live in this trust system where we're providing a product, we're providing a service and we haven't been paid for anything. We're just trusting that if I have an agent, they're gonna work for me to get that money. If I don't, I'm gonna work with that client, and I'm gonna have that professional faith that they're gonna send me a check. Anne: And you have to have faith, yes, that your agent's gonna be doing that work for you. And let's say if you did not book through an agent, right -- I negotiate a lot of work myself -- I actually will have stated in my quote, prepayment is preferred, especially if they're a new client, an electronic payment, by the way. But if I am working with a big client and I issue an invoice, I am trusting that they're going to pay me within the the 30, 60, sometimes 90 days.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: And that is a trust in the process. Lau: That's right. And it's scary.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: It's really scary because once in a while it doesn't happen.  Anne: Yep. Lau: Once in a while we get burned. And I'm just here to tell you guys, if you get nothing out of this podcast, just know that in your lifetime there will be times that you will get burned, and not to let that jade or make it simple (?) or scare you. You just know that sometimes you run into a bad situation. And what do you learn from that? What did you take away from that? Anne: Exactly.  Lau: What do you know now? Rather than getting angry and bitter, I'm gonna get better from that situation. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But most situations are just not gonna be that. They're just not. They're gonna be trustworthy. Anne: And I think there's just the trust in so many things that you don't even think about. Right? I had trust in the technology, Lau, on that last podcast that it was gonna record us and it didn't. But that's okay. I'm not bitter. I am not bitter. We learned from that, didn't we? Right? So now we know what to do. Yeah. Now we know what to do. You know, it happens all the time. So I know that just seemed like a silly little example, but it was a true example of us turning that into a learning lesson. And I'm actually grateful that it happened because now I know what to do to alleviate it from happening again. And I'm grateful for that. Lau: And watch this, Anne. I'm actually gonna demo what the listener can do when they're in a situation where they're ethos -- I love using the word ethos. It's like a character building trust that we build as people and as professionals. When they feel it lowering, it's going down just a little bit. Because something wrong happens, something bad happened. So in the moment you could make a decision by saying something, and I'm really gonna say this to Anne, but demo it in front of the listening audience.  I'm gonna say, Anne, that happened because that was my fault on our side. We didn't realize we weren't going through Chrome as we typically do. We somehow lost our Chrome app, and we just logged right into the link without remembering that we have to go through Chrome to record on Riverside. So what does that cause? There's a cause and effect to that whole trust system. Anne now has to go to her engineer and pay them a little extra to fix that and save that problem. So how do we restore trust? Anne: There you go.  Lau: Because the morality, the morality is I am going to offer to pay that engineer to do that because that shouldn't be on you. Because that was on our end. That was our fault. It wasn't intentional; it was just a mistake. But see, this is how you wanna treat your peeps, your friends, your colleagues, your fellows. Whether they accept it, that's up to them. But to have the due diligence that saying, oh, too bad, I made a mistake. Go figure it out. It's like, well no, let me sort of rectify that. Let me see if I can offer something to make that better, to repair that. Is it life or death? Not life or death, but in the course of your relationships, attention to detail is really, really important. And when things go wrong and you make a mistake, 'cause we're just human beings, try to rectify it. Try to fix it, try to offer. Anne: Well, that's a wonderful example. And I like that. And I'll see you that offer because I appreciate the offer. Right? Our relationship, I value our relationship and I appreciate that offer. But I have already put that into my learning bin, right, where I've learned where I need to make sure that my guests on the podcast need to make sure they're going through Chrome in order to record the video and the audio. So that's great. So I politely decline and say thank you for the offer. But yeah, it's, it's a thing. And so I feel good about it. And so I want BOSSes who are just getting out into the industry and feeling scared or having expectations that may or may not correspond with what's actually happening to understand that, number one, just put that trust in it. If it doesn't turn out the way you expect, make sure that you think about what it is that you can do to learn from that. Lau: Absolutely. There's a learning curve in everything. Even if it's highly uncomfortable, something really bad occurs, whatever, just take the learning lesson and walk away and say, good. Now I'm gonna take this into my future relationships. I'm gonna know who I can work with and who's not appropriate to work with. And just move on from it. And that will ensure your level of trust in the next person. In other words, you won't be carrying your garbage, you won't be carry your trash from what went wrong here into the future. Anne, I think we're doing therapy. I think this is gonna save a lot of marriages to be honest with you. Right? 'Cause you wanna carry your last boyfriend's garbage into the new boyfriend's garbage.  Anne: That's right. That's right. Lau: Yeah? You wanna -- Anne: That's right. Lau: -- have a clear slate. That person, that client if you will, or that colleague, they have a right to earn your trust fully. It's not fair to them to place all the stuff -- because you were telling me earlier that you had a client that was having some trust issues about your services and this and that. And I'm thinking, oh, this reminds me so much of people who come in, you don't know where they're coming in from, and they just came in from all these bad relationships and experiences and they're putting it right onto you. Anne: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Lau: How do you handle that, Anne, when that happens? Anne: That's a great question. There's only so much -- I like to say, well, you know what, it's their movie, right? And so I can't let that affect me in any kind of a way or inhibit my growth. And so I will just say, well, it's their movie. They're directing it and I can help as much as I can. Just reinforce that things do not necessarily happen a day after you start in this industry and that you need to trust in the process. And other than that, other than giving that advice, I don't know of much else that I can do except to say, you know what? I'm here if you need me in the future, that's absolutely fine. I'm happy to help you through that. But I feel like if you want help and then you step back 'cause you got scared, right, then there's no other way I can really help you anymore at that point. It's gotta be your decision. Lau: That's right. And maybe that's the time, Anne, when you, and I would say to that client, you know, it's okay if this is not a good fit for you, if you need to go somewhere else. Anne: Yep. Absolutely.  Lau: Right? IE you should go somewhere else.  Anne: Right.  Lau: To work with someone that perhaps you have more trust in or whatever -- Anne: Or not. Lau: It's okay to give them permission to go.  Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Like not every client's a good client. Not every contract's a good contract. Not every job should be kept. Anne: Absolutely. And I think understanding and trusting in that gut feeling or that process again can help you to clear your mind. I like to have all positivity in my business and in my transactions and negotiations and so that will help me to clear that.  Lau: Absolutely. I got one more from the road.  Anne: Okay.  Lau: And the one I just thought of in terms of like fear and trust, 'cause they're entwined, they're they're entangled together is like the fear of not being able to trust because it's going to go bad. So in other words, it's like the Murphy's Law thing. Like I'm projecting it's not gonna go well, I'm projecting problems will happen. Manifesting. Projecting. And then it does. And then it inevitably does because you're sabotaging it. Anne: And that's the energy that you are focusing on. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. 'Cause you're not wanting to trust or not capable of it yet or whatever. So you're gonna give it a purpose and a justification for why you can't trust it. Be careful of that. Self-sabotage kills a lot of relationships. Anne: Absolutely. Wow. Well guys, BOSSes out there, learn to trust. Take those bitty, bitty steps. Trust and learn. That's the moral I have of the story today. . Lau: Learning is good.  Anne: All right. All right. So BOSSes, I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Also, if you want to make a big impact and have a very simple mission, you can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. All right, guys. BOSSes, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, it's callback time! After a set of fiercely talented auditions last week, Anne & Lau narrowed it down to the 5 talents they felt had something special. Manny, Aria, Josh, Nicole, and Kelly are back and ready to read. After being thrown custom directions from your hosts, these voice actors rose to the occasion, making the final decision a difficult one. Although there can only be one winner, every experience in front of an agent, producer, and casting director is valuable. You never know what kind of impression you'll leave on them, so give it your all. The final decision came down to matching Anne & Lau's preferences with the client's needs, but you'll have to tune in to find out who that is… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Welcome everyone to the VO BOSS podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring my special guest co-host Lau Lapides to the program. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Glad to be here. Anne: Lau, we had an amazing live audition podcast. I am so excited for how that turned out. Lau: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see it. And oh, what a, what a great time that was. Yeah, great group. Anne: And, and our appreciation, you guys, BOSSes out there, if you've not heard it, go, make sure that you check it out. It was our first ever live audition podcast where we had, uh, gosh, 12 people live auditioning for, uh, a particular for Expedia and, uh, with feedback and everything. And today, this episode is all about the live audition callback. So we had five people calling back, and we are going to have them come back for another round of reads, and Lau and I will pick the winner. So get ready, BOSSes. And so without further ado, hopefully people are there in the audience, uh, in the chat. Um, we have the roster, which will be Nicole Fikes, Aria Lapides, Manny Cabo, Josh Wells, uh, and Kelly White. Okay. So if you guys are ready, the first one up to audition for us again is Nicole. And Nicole, we are asking you to do the same script, which is the script for Expedia, starting with, uh, our colors. And, uh, we would like you to give us your unique second take. Lau, any particular hints, casting directions, specs? Lau: Uh, I would love to see the most coziest warmest, most relaxed read you can do, Nicole. Nicole: Coziest. Warmest, most relaxed. Okay. All right. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Very nice. Lau: All right. Nicole: Thank you. Anne: Yeah. I'm gonna offer one little bit of redirection. Um, can I hear the end? Um, give me a little more, I, I'm gonna say a little more punch on in even more places, in more places. Um, and, and I really wanna hear finding the colors, come, bring that home to me. Um, a little bit of a, of a smile. More of a smile at the end, 'cause you got a great deal. Nicole: Yeah. Okay. And so still warm and fuzzy but just kind of a little bit more emphasis on the colors and even more places kind of line? Anne: Yeah. And you can just pick it up at so we can go find our colors. So you don't need to do the whole thing. Yeah. Nicole: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. All right. Lau: Super nice. Nicely done. Thank you, Nicole. Nicole: Thanks. Lau: Love it. Anne: Now, in a real audition, Lau, how -- now in terms of if people are late or they're not connecting or, you know, there's -- I'm sure there's a grace period, I mean, everybody's human. So if there are tech issues or if somebody didn't hear that they're being called back at the precise time, how much time typically would you say casting directors will wait? Lau: Um, you know, I don't know. It's not like -- I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. I think it depends on the relationship they have with whoever's sending them in, whoever's submitting them, and if they know the talent themselves. The rule of thumb, generally speaking, is like, the less they know you and then, and the less rapport they have, the less they're gonna have patience for you and the less they're gonna wait. But here's the interesting thing, and I, I wanna share this with the folks in the background, 'cause again, they're not seeing any of the tech stuff that's going on. I just received a text right now from Aria who said, hey, could you please give me a second? I need to reset it and reboot. I would say in general, people don't like waiting, so they'll skip to the next person. And you know, as a courtesy, they will come back to you most of the time because they wanna find a good person. They don't wanna -- Anne: And that's, and that's fine. And I will look, I'll make the call here if Manny is available. Uh, you know, if Aria can't get back, Okay. Um, we can certainly take Manny and wait, you know, for later to, to get Aria on, which is fine with me. Lau: That's how, that's how it would be because if we were in a paid studio space by the hour. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: We don't wait, wait for anyone. We just go on to the next person. Anne: Right. Uh, because yeah, this studio's expensive, darn it. . Lau: And you know, as, as we're, as we're saying this, the talent is emailing me because I have a direct rapport with the talent and she's saying, could you please have someone else go while I'm doing the tech setup? Anne: There you go. Lau: So I don't hold you up? See, that's exactly pro stuff. Anne: Perfect. All right, Manny, welcome back. So we're looking for your unique second read. Manny: My unique second read. Anne: You were super warm the first time. Manny: Okay. Anne: So let's, uh, let's hear something different. Manny: Okay. Let's do something fun. Anne: Okay. Manny: here we go. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau, any redirection there? Lau: I have a quick redirect just because I, I'm getting to know Manny and loving your sound. Now I would love to hear you deliver this as a standup comedian. . Manny: Standup comedian. All right, that sounds good. That's fun. Here we go. Our colors have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you could save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. . Anne: Nicely done. Lau: So good. Anne: Yeah, Lau: So good. Anne: Nicely done for, for doing that without a real joke in the script. So that was good. You channeled. And what I liked about that is that you channeled, uh, the comedic into the read even though there was nothing comedic necessarily in the script. So yeah, nicely done. Thank you. Manny: Mom, I'm an artist. I'm doing artist stuff, Mom, come on. . Anne: See? There you go. Manny: Killing me. Thanks, ladies. Anne: Thank you, Manny. Anne: And, and even that little like, improv bit at the end there, nicely done. Lau: So good, so good. Anne: That's a way to leave a nice, uh, remembrance, you know, in my brain. So love that. Lau: Anne, could I make a quick point that I meant to say before, but I didn't say before? Um, I wanted to make the point to everyone who's coming in, but also anyone who's listening in that even though this is a mock audition under educational umbrella, you are actually auditioning every single time you're in front of an agent, a producer, casting, or even coaches. And it's because we're all so connected to work all the time. So case in point, I'm already thinking of work for Manny right now. I'm already thinking of potential representation for him right now because it doesn't matter that it's a, a podcast or a class or a course or a coaching. What matters is we're actually having the real connection and the real stuff. So never like mark through like a dancer might mark -- do it full out 'cause whoever you're with, may be the next person to help you work. Anne: You've planted the seed, right? Lau: Yes. Yeah. Anne: You've planted the seed, so, excellent. Yes. Aria, so wonderful to have you here. We are ready for you. Now we, so I know last time we had thrown that wrench in the, in the loop there for you. Aria: Hey, that's okay. Anne: A completely new script. Aria: Yeah. I enjoy that. Anne: And so and so now because you, you know, were really a cold read there -- Aria: Yeah. Anne: Let's give us the most to spec read, warm, non-announcery, not deliver -- uh, you know, nothing, nothing performy, and tell us that story. Lau, any additional direction? Lau: Um, yes. I would like you to do two things at once. I'd like you to care immensely about what you're talking about. And I also want you to not give a shit about it at all. . There you go. Aria: . Oh, you sort of a birch tree. Anne: That's exactly what I was looking for too, Lau, perfect. Aria: I love that. I love that. That's like my whole thing, right? I care so deeply, but I also don't care at all. Okay. Our colors. See, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel or flight, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Bravo. Nicely done. Uh, way to take direction. I heard both care and not care in there at the same time. Aria: I'm good at that. Anne: Really nicely done now. Aria: Thank you. Anne: . That was the, Okay, so now that you can care and not care, uh, let's just give us uh, something completely different. A wild take from you. One more. Yeah, I got you. A wild take from you. Aria: Okay. Lau: I loved it. And also one more thing, be very careful of, I know you're not in a soundproof space right now. Be very careful of excess noise 'cause you actually clapped at the end. You did something to make noise. So just be careful of, you know, hitting something or any excess noise. Aria: Be careful of using your body, hitting something, excess noise. Got you. Echo. Our colors. They have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with the Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel and a flight, and even more places, you know, knowing you got a great deal. Expedia, ah, made to travel. Anne: Perfect. Let's hear that again. You missed a line. Aria: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So let's hear that again. Aria: Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing that we have a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau? Lau: Yeah. I wanna make a comment about this. And again, it's like that oxymoron kind of thing. On one hand I love that choice and I loved how you, how quickly you did it. You didn't care. You just, you just, it was that improv in you. You just did it. You went 100% and I loved that. And actually you had a sort of European amorphous kind of non-real, real thing going on, which I like. Aria: Yeah. Lau: But just from an educational perspective for everyone, you wouldn't be able to do it for the most part, right? Because we are so much about particular appropriation that that authentic sound would be from somewhere and we would have to do the casting. Aria: And that's so funny that you say that 'cause I was actually originally gonna do like a Valley girl. 'Cause I was like, I feel like that would be a little bit more appropriate, at least for my age group than. Lau: No, but I think your choice was really right on in terms of the actor spirit. Anne: I think so too, in terms of making it more international. Lau: It was cool. Anne: And especially for the subject, but you're absolutely right, Lau. That's one thing that I was going to say, that maybe, you know unless you knew specifically that there was something in the specs that they were looking, and that it wasn't critical that it was, you know, from a, you know, a native speaker. Um, but I like the actor party knew that that gave that the shot for sure. Aria: Yeah. 'Cause you guys are so right, like, especially these days, like they want the authentic thing. Like I've -- even in acting, they're like, if you aren't this specific thing, I'm sorry, you can't play the role. And I'm like, it's okay, it's okay. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that, so I loved it, but I wouldn't be able to cast it. Right. Just like, you know. Aria: I just got that noted. Yeah. I appreciate it. All right. Awesome, guys, thank you. Lau: Thank you. Anne: Thank you. All right. That was fun. Yeah, absolutely. Um, Josh. Hi Josh. Josh: Hi. How's it going? Anne: Fantastic. Thank you. Josh: Cool. Anne: Um, Lau, any, uh, direction that you wanna give before he reads? Lau: Yeah, sure. Sure. Josh, I love what you're doing. Just give me a little bit more professor that is mixed with surfboard. So let's say he's like a, a UC, you know, LA professor that goes surfing during his lunch break. Josh: Sure. Dig it. Okay. Cool. All right. Uh, Josh Wells. Lau: I think you're a little low too. Is that me? Josh: Am I little low? Lau: I feel like your volume -- Josh: Well, I'm, I'm away from the mic, but how about here? Is this better? Lau: That's better. Josh: Okay, cool. Cool. All right. Excellent. Uh, Josh Wells, non-union. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: So I, I I mean, I felt like you're moving there, you're not there yet. You're sort of holding on. There's a held feeling to it. Like, I would want you to let it go. Let it go. Let it move forward. Ride the wave. Ride the wave. And be careful of the pausing too much. It has an unnatural feel to it. Josh: Dig it. Lau: So, you know what I'm saying? Anne: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I missed the surfer, kind of channeling of the surfer. I wanted to, I felt like I needed a little more, more relaxed. Um, and then also I, I, I just, I have a personal issue with the word a because in a conversation it's usually you're adding a hotel and not A hotel. But that's, you know, that's just my ears here. Josh: Um, I've got the note before, I'll -- Anne: Yeah. So yeah, if you can give me a little more of the relaxed, you know, kind of like mm, you know, the half smile. Um, I'd like to hear that again. Josh: Okay. You got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. I liked your ending. I like the different end on the tag there. Josh: Thank you. I appreciate it. Lau: Thanks Josh. You have a great cat that ate the canary sound. You had that really sort of wise cracking wise guy sound, which I really like a lot. I'd wanna play with that even more. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And I would say, I would say for the, I still, you know, I'm in California, so it's the surfer, you know, I guess it's that me, I felt like you were almost leaning towards a little more like, uh, you know, Midwest sort of, Sam Elliott kind of relaxed. So work on the surfer. I think you've got it in you, for sure. Josh: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that note. Anne: Yeah. Nice. I, I really like your tone. Thank you. Josh: Awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Anne: Okay. Kelly White. Kelly: Hello, hello. Anne: Hi, Kelly. Lau: Hey Kelly. Kelly: Hey, how are you? Anne: Nice to see you back. Kelly: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Anne: Awesome. So, uh, Lau, do you have any, any specific direction you'd like? Lau: Yeah, so Kelly, keep in mind that we're going for a slightly younger demographic. So as we love the richness and texture and heaviness of your sound, we really feel like you might be able to go in that direction of the 30s to even early 40s sound of like something that is the fast moving person, multitasking person, young, professional person raising young children. I know you know nothing about that. I'm joking 'cause I know Kelly well. Kelly has small, young children, so target that on a busy day. Kelly: Okay. Anne: But remember that your colors, I, I wanna feel the, I wanna feel the colors, uh, being, bringing you home. Kelly: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of binding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: Can I ask a question? If this is a busy mom, a young busy mom, what does colors mean to you? To her? What does that actually mean literally? Kelly: Um, just different aspects of probably her life. Just different things that she's doing, different things she has going on. Lau: Yeah. And the idea that she also wants to escape from it. Kelly: Gotcha. Anne: And find. Lau: And the colors of the ocean. The colors of the mountains, the greenery, the islands, the -- Anne: And find herself in more places than just her home. Kelly: Got it. That's right. Lau: Explore her, her inner world. Right? Her fantasy. Welcome to Fantasy Is -- give me more Fantasy Island, I think. Kelly: Got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. I'd like to have -- I really like the way you slowed that down and, and emphasize the colors and you brought that home. Um, and I think knowing we've got a great -- knowing we got a great deal. I'd like to hear just that last part again so we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. That's like your, that's like your mom, like that's your mom's secret. Like you just got a deal, you just had a coupon, and you know what, you're excited about it. And so you're sharing that with us. Okay? And, uh, let's just, just hear that one more, one more time please. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. Can I ask for one more? Can I ask for an alternate on just, just the, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal -- can I get an ABC read of that? That would be three different ways. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Anne: Thank you, Kelly. Kelly: You're welcome. Thank you so much. Anne: Nicely done. Kelly: Thank you. Lau: Thank you hun. Appreciate it. Kelly: All right. Lau: All right. That's everyone. Yeah? Anne: That is everyone. Wow. You guys all did an amazing job. This is gonna be tough. Lau: Actually, I think it's gonna be easier than we think only because we kind of get and know what that client wants. And that's gonna help us deduce down who we need to be picking along who we want to be picking. So what, what, what are your top thoughts on top, top people? Who are your top, top two? Anne: Uh, my top people I am going to say, uh, is going to be Manny, Aria and Kelly . Lau: Okay. And my top people are Manny and Nicole. Okay. So we've got Manny in common there, which is a strong choice. And, and what's even stronger about Manny is, and it's genderless. Like they don't care what gender, that's fine. But they want diversity talent. And Manny is, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Manny, I believe Latina and is bilingual and so can offer a Spanish read of this. So there's a, there's a super compelling reason why he may book this. Anne: And, and, and let's also talk about, you know, as we, as we mentioned before with our feedback, the fact that he was able to, uh, you know, take good direction, that's so, so very important, right, change up his read, which he did, uh, when asked. Also when leaving, when we asked him for the comedic read and I said, nice job, even though there's no comedic in there, he was actually able to leave us without sounding like too, like, you know, trying too desperate or trying to impress us. He did a line that was comedic that impressed me. And so I really liked the nuance of that and for me, that stood out and made him very memorable. Lau: Yeah. I mean, when he did that last mom thing, and I was like, wow, this guy is like really ready. He is ready Freddy. He is, There's no fooling around with Manny. Like, he's a super pro. And again, I'm saying this like, I don't know Manny at all. He was referred over to me last night for, uh, a VO Spanish audition that we got in from Miami. Unfortunately, he did not make that call because it was a time sensitive. So I said, and this happens all the time, I said, hey, I would love for you to come on our podcast. We're doing mock auditions today. He came on today in good spirit that he missed the actual audition, but not, not any fault of his. He just didn't, you know, he came in late and then came in today, and now I'm thinking, how can I work with Manny? Anne: Sure, sure. Absolutely. Lau: See, that's the way life is. So, Okay. So he's my top choice then. Anne: Yeah. He's my top choice too. And, and I'm gonna say, you know, my other picks, you know, again, I had for demographic, uh, you know, Aria, I love the voice, I love the demographic. I think that she's, she's, uh, great with that. She did give a complete different read um, you know, on either one. I liked her acting instincts there. Um, and so again, that sometimes, guys, it, it, it can turn out to be like just these tiny little things that can separate, you know, who we decide and not. And Kelly I liked because we asked her to do a lot there at the end too, and she came through with her three different reads, which I liked, uh, a whole lot. Uh, in terms of demographic too, I thought that she was appropriate. Um, I wanted, I wanted a little younger sound though that. Lau: I did too. Wonderful. I felt -- that felt just a little square, a little boxy for me. Like I, it had, again, she's got a good corporate feel. She's got a good businessy feel. Um, I wanted a-- I wanted more, it was a very staccato type of reads. I wanted more flowy-ness to it. I wanted more, more hangout energy. And also Aria was terrific, no question. I felt she's got age and room to grow. I thought she was a little too young for this one somehow. Anne: Okay. No, I would totally agree with you on that. Lau: But again, we're splitting hairs, you know? We're like going, okay, we're looking at union and non-union status, we're looking at diversity, we're looking at age, we're looking at all these different factors that separate people when really all of these people could be booked on this. Anne: Yeah. And just, you know, other words, you know, like for Nicole, Nicole really has that warm read down. I'll tell you. She really does. You know, I don't wanna leave this without feedback for all of, all of you. Um, because Nicole, you have that, that warm read. And that's something I think when you've got it, you know, go for it. When there are auditions that call for that warmth, go for them, because that seems to be a signature style for you. And then I'll, I'll say a little bit about let's see, who else was it that -- Josh. Right? Lau: And can I just say about Nicole before you leave that? See, okay. Again, listeners, you don't know what's in our head and how it's shifting so fast. Nicole was actually my first pick for this. But the, but the age, the diversity, diversity factor came in and this factor and that. See, and it shifted the game. It has nothing to do with, can Nicole do this job? Is she great and right for it? Of course she is. But there were other factors. Anne: I think everyone, every one of you could have done this job, No question. Um, and now we just talk about different factors in terms of demographic. So keep that in mind, guys, when you, when you let things get you down and you think that, oh, they didn't pick me, um, it has a lot to do with things other than just your voice or your performance. And also it could be like, well, I've worked with, uh, you know, I've worked with Manny before, and I just know he's gonna come through and give us whatever we want. Or, you know, I've worked with Nicole before, and you know, or my cousin knows Nicole and, and, and really recommends her or whatever it is, guys, don't let the fact that you don't get the gig, you know, you know, gets you down because there's so many things, so many, many factors here. Um, and like I say, all five of you I think could have done this job well. And what has shifted us, I think, is again, going back to what the, what the client wants, what we think is best for the brand. And always guys, I think if you can, can look up the brand. At this point, you've had some time with the script. Um, if you don't know the brand, go look at the brand. Look them up, Google's your friend, uh, find out who they're, who are they marketing to, What does their brand look like on the web? And try to really learn as much as you can about that brand because you're speaking on behalf of the brand. Not only are you telling the story of the script, but you're also speaking on behalf of the brand. So knowing -- the more you know, right, the more you know, uh, I think the more educated you are, the better, the better you're going to be. And sometimes, you know, it just, it comes down to, you know, splitting hairs like Lau said before. Lau: Yeah. And if you, even if you go, like, I just used this example the other day. Even if you go into like an Apple store and you're looking for a new Mac, and you go on the Mac, and you sort of test it out, you're going, okay, what's the capability of all this, all these programs? What is the this, what is the that? What does it look like? Is it easy to use? Do I like this pro -- da da da? What am I willing to pay for it? It's not that the Mac itself is not something that you could buy and love and enjoy and could work well. It's just the difference between this $1000 Mac and this $2,000 Mac, and what are the differences? So don't discount yourself or devalue yourself like, they don't like me, I'm not good enough. Whatever. No, you just may not have a quality or a program, if you will, that someone else has that we need for the job. Anne: And, and as we mentioned before, you know, there's a lot of, you know, can you sound younger? Right? That kind of thing. Like people, there's no way it, you know -- I may have a younger sounding voice given my age, but there's no way I'm going to sound millennial. Um, you know what I mean? And so like sometimes it's beyond your control also. Um, if they're looking for a gravitas, if they're looking for a texture and you don't -- I have a very clear voice. Right? If they want something that has more texture in it or rasp in it, that wouldn't be me. Um, but just knowing that can help you to just continue, I think always maintaining -- you know, be the best actor you can be because the things that you can control sometimes, like your voice, like the tone and the texture, and you know, there's lots of things you can do with vocal placement, with characters, but when it comes to this type of a read, where we're looking for authenticity, you know, it's, it's, we don't need you to go into character mode necessarily. Um, but we need authenticity. And that, that is, I think the, the, the thing that you can really concentrate on and practice and get better at as an actor. I think that's so important. Lau: And know knowing that, that self knowing of, of who you are and your brand, what your best qualities are, what your niche is, what is your niche market -- that honesty, that truthfulness will only set you free over time because it will free up a lot of your time so that you're not focusing on jobs that you're simply not gonna get because they can get the authentic read when that, you may not fall into that category. Just focus in those areas that are really your strong suits. Anne: Absolutely. Well then I think we've declared our winner, Lau. Lau: Woo. Anne: So congratulations to Manny. Lau: Yay, Manny. Anne: Um, you are our, you are our voice for Expedia. So congratulations, and thanks to all of you that came in and auditioned in our first podcast. Thanks to you guys who came back for the callbacks. I hope that you've gotten some value out of these, uh, two podcasts, and, uh, we hope to keep them coming your way. I think this could wrap up our episode. Lau: I love it. I mean, I love it. I mean, look at this, in less -- in just about two hours, little over two hours, we went through all the tech glitches, all the directions, all the preliminaries of auditions, the breakdown into the short list, then all the way up to the person who's gonna book the role. Anne: And you heard our brains, you heard us thinking and speaking out loud and casting. And so hopefully you all have a better understanding of what it takes to get cast and what's behind the casting, the casting glass. And, uh, yeah, you guys were all amazing. I really, really appreciate it. So with that being said, guys, I'm gonna give a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. Lau, you're amazing. BOSSes out there, you're amazing. Thank you so much. Have a -- an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau: Kudos to everyone. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend. Bye. Anne: Bye. Congrats. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Get in the hot seat! Anne & Lau put on their casting director hats as they host live auditions with members of the BOSS community. There is something magical about a live audition…especially when the casting directors switch up the script at the last minute. These auditionees were on their toes, reading cold & nailing it. Anne & Lau share their favorite tips for before the audition & reflect on all that went right (and wrong). Stay tuned to hear who got a callback + will be featured in next week's episode. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Woohoo!. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Vo BOSS podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Woohoo. Lau: Hey everyone. Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Happy Saturday. Anne: Lau, we have a extra special podcast edition today. We are doing live auditions for the very first time, and I am so excited. Lau: I love it. I love it. It's my specialty. I can't wait, Anne, can't wait. Anne: And we are going to be having people come on doing live auditions as well as people in the audience and will be joining us later on for a Q and A. So I am so very excited. Now, live auditions. Remember back when before the pandemic, when we would go into studios and audition for direct -- casting directors? Ugh. Lau: And that required us to actually see other human beings and talk to them and maybe even shake their hand? Anne: I know. And you know what? And you know what? One of the most important things about that is, is that we would not see the script until we walked into that studio. And there was always the possibility when we actually got into the room, they would change the script on us. Lau: Yes. Anne: So guess what, Lau? Lau: What, Anne? Anne: The client has changed the script. Lau: Ooh. Anne: So for our auditioners out there, and everybody in the audience, I'm sorry, but we had to throw the wrench into the, the loop of things. And we now have a different script that we will be sending to you to live audition with. So I know that Carol is out there waiting to send that new script out with new specs, and we will continue on with the auditions. And I have to say, I just love, I love the Internet and I love technology because it allows us to really do something really cool like this. Lau: Yeah. It's totally amazing. Completely amazing. And you know, just a moment on that real cold impromptu, last minute script, because I know so many voice actors are like, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Meanwhile, you have to calm down and take a breath because so many of us are either on a pay-to-play site, or we're on hold with our agent, or we're working with casting on a project, and it's happening fast. It's coming and going really fast, and you guys are really getting used to turning things around fast. So the idea of a cold script should not put you out at all. It should be kind of like a fun challenge for you and really in your wheelhouse as a pro VO of something that really you need to be able to do. Anne: Yeah. And I can't tell you the countless number of times I've been on a live session where, you know, in the moment they're changing the script. And so you really have to be able to have those muscles to be able to quickly adapt and give the client what they're looking for. So I will say that this was a, a kind of a, a completely different script , but you know, remember we are here for educational purposes, and we hope all of you are going to really enjoy and reap the benefits of this exercise that we're going to be doing. I will go through the specs. Because this is for educational purposes, the specs for this script, uh, are open to all genders and ethnicities. And I will read the specs out loud here. Our FVO is a great actor, there we go, who can effortlessly imbue meaning and nuance into the story. They have lived a rich full life, having seen the world with all its wonders and is able to speak about their experiences with confidence and authority while their delivery has a poetic cadence . And by the way, you guys are all getting this. Um, this is done subtly and with a light touch. They never come across as dramatic, performative or as if they are laying on the gravitas. They are natural and have an air of lightness to the read that balances out their connection to the emotion perfectly. And as always, nothing smooth, nothing polished or announcery at all. . So we've got, that's a big paragraph of specs, Lau. What do you, what's your thought about specifications and when talent, you know, read the specs? Are they, you know, are they trying to match those specs exactly? Or what's important, uh, when it comes time to actually doing this audition? Lau: Great question. And I'll tell you, there's a lot of theories and philosophies about your descriptions, your breakdowns, and how to handle them. One of my favorites as a coach that I use all the time is to ask the talent to not read the specs up front. Now, this -- I'm not talking about today, because today's session is a live session, and so time is of the essence. But if you were at home and you had a day or two days to turn around an audition, it's a really interesting and telling exercise to not read the specs at all and give your takes and give a whole bunch of takes. And then go back and read the specs and see what did I bring from my point of view, from my interpretation and what kind of matches what the vision of the producer is? Am I in that realm? Am I not in that realm? Anne: Excellent points. Yeah. Let's have Michelle come on in. Hey, Michelle. Lau: Hey Michelle. Michelle: Hi. Can you guys hear me okay? Anne: We can, we can. Thank you for being the first one. I'm excited. Michelle: Oh my goodness. Okay. I just I'm excited to be here as well. Anne: Okay. So would you like a second, because you just got it? I mean, Lau and I can just discuss one other thing quickly about once you're in front of the mic and you're doing a live cold read, Lau, what is your best advice? Oh, for talent? Lau: Oh, wow. That's, that's a great question. First of all, have fun. Enjoy it. You're gonna get very few of those, right, Michelle? I mean, it's just like an exciting, energized, kind of dopamine experience. And for those of us who live on high octane junkies, we love that stuff. It's real time interaction, which I love. And so I would say make sure you're breathing. Make sure you're nice and warmed up, and you take breaks when you need to take breaks. Well, you'd be given a break after you read -- and make specific clear, active acting choices, Michelle, like, don't, don't, uh, generalize it. Don't just fly through it for the sake of time. Really make specific choices that you can change. And you should always have a good two to three really unique interpretations that you could do if they said, yeah, that's good, but can you change it out? You can change it out. Michelle: Got it. Thank you. Lau: Awesome. Anne: So when you're ready, feel free to slate and audition please. Michelle: Michelle Dillard. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you very much. Michelle: Thank you. Anne: Okay. Onto our next auditioner. Uh, on my list. I have Ryan, I hope it's Geiser. Lau: Hello. Anne: Hello, Ryan. Ryan: Oh, cool. I'm in. Lau: Hey Ryan. Ryan: Hi. Lau: Welcome. Ryan: Thank you. Uh, so I'm Ryan Geiser, non-union, MCVO. Um, our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. I was, uh, taking notes, just so you know that if I'm not responding right away, I'm taking notes. So thank you very much. Our next contestant , our next auditioner, I have, uh, Rosie, uh, Roberson? Lau: Yes. Anne: All right. Rosie. Rosie: Hello, everyone. Anne: Hello, Rosie. Nice to see you. Rosie: Well, I'm glad I got in . It's a little tricky there. Just let me know when to start. Anne: Okay. Well, we're ready. Rosie: Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with Expedia membership, you, you can save up at 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Awesome. Thank you very much. Okay. Our next, I have Manny Cabo. Manny: Hey ladies, how are you? Anne: Welcome. Manny: Welcome. Anne: Thanks for, thanks for joining us. Manny: Oh, thanks for having me. This was a last minute thing. I was, I just got off Covid for like two weeks, so believe me, this is a breath of fresh air. Anne: Oh, lovely. Well, I'm glad you're feeling better. Manny: Yeah, me too. Anne: All right, well, we are ready when you are. Manny: All right, let's do this. Here we go. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you so much, Manny. Awesome. Next on my list, I have, uh, Josh Wells. Josh. Josh: Hi. How's it going, Anne? Nice to meet you. Hi Lau. Anne: Hi. Nice to meet you too. Welcome. Thanks for joining us. Josh: Yeah. Super excited. Anne: We are ready when -- we are ready when you are. Josh: Heck yeah. Cool. All right. Josh Wells, non-union, Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Um, up next, we should have Kelly White. Kelly White. You are next for the live auditions on VO BOSS. Kelly: Hello. Anne: Hi, Kelly. Kelly: Hi there. Nice to meet you Anne. Hi, Lau. Anne: Yes. Wonderful to see you. Kelly: Thank you. Anne: All right, well, we are ready when you are. Kelly: Okay. Kelly White. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Fantastic. All right. Who do I have next? I have Alicia Hiller. Alicia: Hello. . Anne: Hello. Welcome. Alicia: Good -- good to meet you. Hi, Lau. Anne: Yes. Thanks for joining us today. All right, we're ready when you are. Alicia: Alicia Hiller. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Fantastic. Thank you so much. Ah, Aria. Fantastic. Real cold read. All right. So we are ready when you are. Aria: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with a new Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a new hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places when we know a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. All right, cool. Thank you, guys.wor Anne: Thank you. All right. Um, and now Carole. Carole, we're ready when you are. Carole: All righty. Thank you. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got great deal -- knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Carol. Just remember a lot of times we have auditions with instructions, right? It's important to just go through those instructions too. And I know like you know, there's a lot of people who like, you know, and the forms we'll talk about, well, you know, should I get SourceConnect and then, you know, or should I wait until I get my first client? And this would be one of the reasons why , why you wanna make sure you test out all those tech things first. I am proud to be able to to give you this technical -- these technical issues to help you to learn because you know, it's all our mission, right, Lau -- our mission is to educate. Lau: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm like, you know, I'm not a negative Nelly at all. But I'm very much a realist and I say to folks, even if you've used your program, even if you've used your booth a million times, get in there early. Because anything that can go wrong probably will. And you wanna be able to have time to troubleshoot that and not miss out. So it is a good lesson. It is. Anne: Nicole. Nicole: Hi. Anne: Hi. Welcome. Nicole: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Well, we are ready when you are. Nicole: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. There you go. Anne: Thank you so much. Nicole: Thank you. Anne: I remember being in the LA area, and of course, Lau, I mean, maybe if you ever had to run into the city to do a live audition, right, traffic, traffic. And so when the audition time was slotted right, you would I -- you would pray that there was no traffic jam that would be holding you up. And if you did hit a traffic jam and you got there late, sometimes you missed the audition. Sometimes you got there way early and that therefore you had the script. So I kind of like how we're really mimicking this. You would, you know, you'd be able to practice with the script a little bit longer if they had a, if you had a line in front of you. So, you know, I feel that there's all these -- this tech issues are kind of mimicking the traffic that we would hit when we would be, you know, in the car on the way to the studio. And thankfully now, we can, you know? Lau: The, the one, the one element of this that I think is really different and unique to the circumstance, that is sometimes we can't help tech glitches when they happen, and sometimes we can. And so just kind of knowing the difference. Like I'll give you an example. For instance, if someone knows that they have to be on a laptop and have to go through Chrome in order to do the audition, it's really on that person to go on a laptop and go through Chrome. That's something that could be avoided, but all of a sudden my transmission is bad because the hurricane, all of a sudden, you know, my lights go out. You know, that's something I can't help. So I think being able to determine what I sort of have control over and I sort of don't have control over -- and then the other thing too, and this is just me, you and I are exactly alike in this way, Anne, I will leave four hours early to get to an appointment, knowing that if I'm three hours early, I can do my work, I can have coffee, I can shop, I can do whatever. I don't wanna do the last minute thing ever. Like that really stresses me out. And so just for everyone coming in, like leave yourself plenty of time. Anne: Oh, fantastic. Stephanie. Stephanie: Hi. Anne: Welcome. Stephanie: Thank you. Shall I? Anne: Thanks for being here. Yes, we are ready when you are. Stephanie: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors even in more places, knowing we got a deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you so much. So Lau, I have my notes ready and you have your notes ready. Let's talk. Lau: I do. And I am wondering whether it's now or maybe later, if we could also go over some of our top kind of rules of the road in this kind of an audition. We talked a little bit about it throughout, but like, what are our top, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8 things that we wanna see people be prepared to do or not do that happened today? Like, because here's the thing, from the talent's point of view, they see nothing. Like they know nothing and see nothing. You, I ,and Sean we're doing this whole massive thing -- and Carol -- this whole massive thing to make this session run. Anne: Right, behind the scenes. Lau: I would love to share a little bit of that so that again, we can go back to what is in my power to change and control and prepare for and what is really not. Anne: Fantastic. Lau: Are you okay with that? If we like just throw a few rules of the road in? Anne: Yeah, absolutely. So let's go ahead and start, Lau. Lau: Okay. I'm gonna start. So one of the things that is -- and again, I'm sharing this educationally, I don't want anyone to feel like we're chiding you or, or, or, you know, cussing you out or anything. It's not about that. This is about education. So that when you're on the real deal in the real scene, a lot of this will sort of dissipate, and you'll be able to work streamlined like a pro. So this entire time, and you'll see my head was down a lot when you see the video of this -- why? Not because I was falling asleep, because I was constantly texting, constantly emailing and helping people troubleshoot all along the way. Now I'm not the tech person to help you troubleshoot. I was expediting those emails and texts over to Anne, over to Sean, over to Carol where they needed to go. In the real world, you won't be able to do that. This is not the real world. This is our educational fun forum. But in the real world, there will be no one to text, no one to email, and no one to help you tech troubleshoot. So, simple things to avoid, I really want y'all to avoid is knowing the device you have to be on, knowing the, uh, uh, application or the program you need to be on, testing it through, preferably the day before rather than the day of. And also being in a solid space where you've got some audio integrity. You're not in the middle of a huge room or in a car or in a big living room to get the best quality that you can get. So those are all, in my mind, things you can somewhat control so that you can get to the next step, which is your talent, your work, your audition. Many of you couldn't get to it fully, 'cause I know most of you. You just couldn't get to it fully because you were so concerned about the tech, about all the tech stuff that was going on. Anne: And, and also, I do wanna say that those instructions were sent out a couple of days in advance, even though our, we changed the script on you. The instructions were sent out. And, and look, most people, if it's going to be a technical, you know, if it's going to be something technical like this where you're joining, uh, remotely via, you know, SourceConnect, ipDTL or some other form like Riverside, it is definitely advantageous to, uh, to test that technology out. You know, it's always wonderful to have a group of, you know, of, of colleagues that you can work with at any given time and say, hey, look, can you help me test? I mean, there's a lot of you know, forums and groups out there that say, hey, I need to do a SourceConnect test right now. Can you help me somebody test with me? So make sure that if this is something that you need to, to do, to do it in advance. And especially if, you know, a lot of times we're asked to record as well, and this could just be something maybe we're recording in, you know, through, uh, SourceConnect Now, or we're recording locally or whatever it is, Make sure that you hit that button and test it in advance. And so not having the technology throw your performance, which I'm sure it probably did for some of us a little bit, and I feel like, I feel like I might have heard that in some of your reads. Um, and as well as, you know, everything that you can possibly do to make that session go smooth. And also, you know, trying not to let that show when you get in the room to actually do the audition. Right? It's in and out and no excess. Nothing necessarily in terms of like, not too much small chat because -- Lau: Anne, you took it outta my head. You took it right outta my mouth. That was my next point, was like, there used to be an ad campaign many years ago for a deodorant, never let 'em see you sweat. That's where like, we're an actor. We're an actor, we're an actor. And what do actors do? They have to act. And that doesn't mean in the role all the time, that means as a business person, like you have to make your client feel like everything's okay. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Lau: Don't worry about it. The sky isn't falling, even though it may not be okay. And you may not be able to audition and they may be disappointed. Don't let them feel like you are disappointed, you're upset, you're worried, you're scared, because that, that mirrors onto them. And then that, that becomes a, like a, you know, a, a slippery slope as they say. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: You know? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But then being said, Anne, I do wanna congratulate everyone for the ones that -- actually most people were able to get in and show up and do -- almost all. And I just wanna give you a huge round of applause in kudos for doing that, despite your issues and your tech glitches and your confusion and your craziness. Look, you did it. You showed up. You went through it. That's the pro that we wanna build onto. Anne: Yeah. And I, and I wanna say thank you, really. I mean, this is, this was the first time that we've done this. And I think that it's, I like to believe that it's educationally valuable to, you know, the community. And I thank you for being a part of that, uh, from the bottom of my heart, really. Um, I'm really proud of all of you. Number one, it's a Saturday. So thank you for coming out and doing that and then dealing with tech frustrations. And so let's talk a little bit, Lau, about selections. Do you, do you -- Lau: Let's. Do you want to create our shortlists? Anne: I think we should create our shortlists. So first of all, I'm gonna say uh, you know, for, for a lot of the people, I feel that because it was a cold read, there were a lot of reads that sounded a little bit cold read. Um. And so if you had time, right, if you were not the first person, literally, or even if you were the first person, like the, I think my suggestion would be out of the mouth immediately once you get that script. Um, you know what I mean? Get that, get those words out of your mouth because that becomes muscle memory. That's gonna help you make it not sound like a cold read. It's gonna help you get the context of the script quickly. And remember, we are storytellers. We need to tell the story. Even though this was a short script, there was a definite story there. And I needed to feel, above the words coming out correctly, I needed to feel the warmth, the emotion, the point of view. Lau: Mm. I love all that. And as an actor, I mean, I think, you know, we have to choose very specific, very quick actor choices. We don't know if they're gonna work. We don't know how they're gonna land, but we have to be connected to something that's real. We have to know who am I speaking to and what am I connecting to. I like to use props. I mean, I'm a big prop -- like even if I'm, you know, if I'm doing a, a makeup ad, I might have my lipstick ready to go. You may never see it, right, 'cause I'm a voiceover. So you may never see it, but I feel it. I smell it. It's in my hand. There's something, you know, visceral about stuff that is real, that I can hold, I can use, I can feel. I like that. And engaging the body as well. So whether I'm sitting, I'm standing, whatever I'm doing is like, how does this translate within my body? Where's the energy coming from? You know, some of you came in with really warm, rich, textured sound, and that felt right to me. It felt like a way to go. It felt like a path. And as I watched you, I could sort of see where that vibration was coming from. I could sort of see where that was coming from today. So I think not disconnecting your head and your voice from the rest of your body and your spirit is super important. Anne: Now I'm also gonna point out that, you know, part of the specs and, and I think part of what I think innately most people are looking for in this style of, of script is something, you know, uh, not, uh, nothing smooth, polished, or announcery at all. Okay? So that's hard when you're doing a cold read. So the sooner I said, the sooner you can get that script outta your mouth -- and by the way, if you weren't one of the first few that came on board, you know, maybe that's something you were doing in the background right? Until we called you, because we definitely had enough time now through this whole process where people towards the end had a good, ample amount of time to kind of get a feel for that script, you know, and, and really, and do and, and just really feel the copy, understand the copy, know what story you're telling. Natural, and again, I'm looking at some of the specs that we were looking for, you know, natural, not performative, not laying on the gravitas, um, an air of lightness to the reed, which I liked. Um, there was some really nice light reads in there that I liked. Um, what else can I say about, you know -- and I think following the specs is one thing, but then adding something different, right? In addition to making it that non-announcery, telling the story, there, there, I think trying to incorporate something that's a little bit different, a little bit unique, uh, something that you think no other talent is going to give, right? That might surprise us. So I had a couple of, you know, as I was typing madly my notes, a couple of melodies that I heard in there that were really nice, There was like a, a, a lilt on one of the words or maybe a little point of view that was different than I was anticipating, which made me stand up and take notice. And guess what I did, Lau? I actually starred those, uh, those reads. And those are the people that I am, I have on my list to call back. So. Lau: They got Anne's gold star. That means something. Anne: They got my stars. Lau: That means something, right? I love that. That's great. I love that. Oh, there's a point I was just gonna make and I forgot what I was gonna say, but, but I'm hearing you on what you're saying, Anne, because I think that the, that that disappointment, if you will that word disappointment of, I'm ready, I'm prepared, I'm doing this -- wait a second, I'm not doing that. I'm doing something else. Whatever that is, that disappointment, that surprise, that let down that, that confusion, like, it's really important to feel that and be in that space. Certainly as casting as you are, as agent as I am, we're constantly dealing with that. Just when I think it's one thing and I know it, it turns into something else and I don't know it. And typically it's because of priority. So if someone switches a script or someone switches an audition, it's typically, typically because another audition came in that's much more time sensitive. So we have to, I might love say Manny or Kelly or Stephanie, but I also kind of love them for this new one that came in. So I want them to put that on hold just for a second and take this script and do it. So being able to improvise, impromptu, shift fast, interpret fast, I think is really important. Anne: Yeah. And, and before we actually I think reveal, because you and I, I mean, I have my list and you have your list, so we need to agree upon five people that we're gonna be calling back. Uh, I, I really just wanna say that, that it's something, that's something different, right? Uh, the more that you can practice reading your scripts, I mean, I can't say enough how, how important it is to just find different scripts, read, practice all the time, audition -- it, it just helps you to be stronger. And get feedback from, you know, from coaches and, and people that you trust that have been in the industry, that can really help you to, to, you know, uh, perform better and make those bold moves, and workout groups I think are so important. Um, like I have my VO Peeps group and every month, you know, we are working out, and, and, and I know that Lau, you have the same thing. Uh, those are so important to help you get that practice under your belt so that you can -- you need to experience all the different styles, all the different reads in order to make mistakes and grow from them. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Think it's all about growth, all about growth as an actor. And, and if you're not doing something every day that is voiceover, that is, uh, you know, looking at different scripts, scenarios, practicing, working, uh, I, I think you're, you're missing the boat on growing as an actor. Lau: Right, right. And I think it's also the how we deal with stress. How do we balance, how do we manage time? How do we manage our crazy lives when this stuff comes in? Because you -- you know, I always say be careful what you wish for. You might get it . And when it comes in, it always comes in at the most in inopportune times. It always comes in at the time when you're the busiest, and you're working, and you have events, and you have kids. It always does 100% of the time. So you kind of always have to set your life up that I can go in the space, I can do this quickly, I can make it happen even though I've got a whole bunch of layers going on around me. They don't need to know about it. As we always say, uh, leave your trash at the door. You can come get it on your way out. Don't bring it into the studio. Um, and, and being able to really practice that, really practice that skill along with your actual delivery skill. 'Cause it's a whole other skill, that's an executive functioning skill. That's like, how do I manage 25 things at once and how do I make those 25 things all feel important and all feel like I'm not getting crazy? Like, that's, that's a functioning skill that we have to practice and we have to really work on every day along with the actual acting skills. Anne: Yeah. Right. Lau: That is, we work -- Anne: On, Oh, I'm sorry. I, I was just, I was thinking, I was thinking, uh, while you were talking. Now as we reveal -- Lau, I'm gonna have you read, you know, maybe a list or a couple of people that you, that you kind of have selected and we'll see if we agree. Lau: Yeah. Actually, can I ask you, Anne, just to crosscheck, how many out of our list do we have that actually auditioned? Or maybe I should say how many did not audition? 'Cause it seemed like most auditioned. Anne: Three, uh, three did not. Um. Lau: Okay, great. Yeah. So we had 12 -- Anne: Well, actually, actually two out of the list did not, and then you added, uh, Brit, so. Lau: Okay. So we actually had 12 or 13? Anne: Yep. We actually had 12. Lau: Fantastic turnout. Anne: Out of the original list we had 13. Yeah. Lau: Don't you think that's -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: That's a fantastic turnout because we always have, in any audition, a percentage of people who do not audition. There are no shows where they just don't audition for many reasons. So that's actually very high, that level of -- Anne: And they didn't even know their script. Well, they -- Lau: And they didn't know anything and they still showed up. Anne: Yeah. That's good. So. Lau: But see, I think that's a testament. I wanna, I wanna make mention, I think it's a testament to Anne, to myself, and to the nature of this whole group, this whole community of how much we trust each other, we care for each other. And you're just getting to know Anne, many of you, and, and she's part of our community now. And like, like-minded people hold each other up, motivate each other, inspire each other, and through the difficult moments, get each other through it. And that's exactly what happened today. Exactly. And so I just wanna call attention to that from a, a, a social and, and professional friend network, but also a community, sort of inspirational, motivational, holding each other through this. You guys did that, even though you may not have talked to each other. You may not have met with each other. You did that in the space, you did that in the online space. And that's -- Anne: And in the chat. Lau: -- so important to do. Absolutely. The chat. That was great. Okay. So how many, Anne, you think are we gonna shortlist here? Would you say six? Anne: I've, I've got five marked. Lau: Okay. Anne: I've got five marked. Lau: Okay. Anne: Um, so that I'd like to hear, and I, and I just wanna say one other word. Not only was it how I wanted to hear that script in terms of the specs, because consider I am the client or I'm, I'm with the client or I'm representing the client, how I wanted it to be that non-announcery warm feeling with all the, with all the feels, uh, in that description. It's also water. I feel like the voice also, if it hadthe sound that I was looking for. And so there are some that I feel out of the five, I feel some did one better than you know, the other. Um, but they all had something that made me put them on the short list. Lau: So, Okay. So, uh, uh, first of all, everyone had something that I could potentially work with. I would just wanna say that I'm not just saying that to butter people up. I'm saying everyone has a unique quality that I could really direct and work with, but based on what we were looking for and what our vision is, here's some of my top peeps. Okay? I'm just looking my list. Okay. So Manny is one of my tops. Okay? Anne: Agreed. Lau: And I have Kelly, who's one of my tops. Anne: Okay. Lau: And I have Nicole. Anne: Yes. Lau: And I have Aria, and I have, uh, Josh. I wasn't sure how many we're looking for. So -- Anne: Five. Lau: So that's, that's five. I have more. But we'll stop at that. We, we'll stop at that. Anne: Okay. So I have -- I agreed with you on Nicole, Manny, uh, Josh, and then I also had, uh, marked Alicia and uh, Carole. Lau: Good. Three outta five ain't bad. . Anne: Yeah. So, uh, we definitely have the three. Now let's just discuss. Let's just discuss because I think, uh, for me, Nicole had a nice hush that says some of the, the notes that I wrote about Nicole that I really liked. And, and Nicole was also second, so she didn't have a ton of time to prepare. Um, and she came through even with that. Now -- Lau: And you know what I loved about Nicole is when she delivers, there is something that is transfor -- transports me when she speaks that I'm in a different world. I'm in a different mode, I'm in a different world. There's something a little bit magical about her sound that I caught right away. And about her essence, because we were meeting her and seeing her on camera, there's very calm, sort of meditative, logical head on the ground feel to her. And I, that all kind of went together as this really lovely package of someone who I felt really safe with, I felt really good with. Anne: Awesome. Uh, uh, Manny, like from the first few words, I kind of had him marked already. He started off, he started off with a real warm, nice, friendly, uh, not announcery style. And that's what I really, you know, I immediately wrote, you know, stars there. Lau: Yeah, he's super pro. He has a pro sound. There is a polish there without sounding overly announcery. Um, there's a clarity there, and there's also this kind of like sexiness to it that I didn't expect, uh, because I wasn't looking for that. So there was this, uh, appeal to it that, that I really liked. It was almost essential appeal without asking for that, which I liked. Um. Anne: Uh, fantastic. Lau: And he seemed very sure of himself. 'Cause I had not met Manny at all. Anne: Very confident. Lau: He was brought over by a dear friend. And we literally met today when he came in, and I just, I just loved his presence. I just loved his confidence, and I just loved his kind of chill, laidback, but professional guy persona. He had a persona that was very strong that I heard his sound. Anne: Yeah, I agree. I completely agree. Um, Josh, now I have Josh. Um, there was a word of course I was typing so furiously that I couldn't type the word correctly, but he had a word in there that caught my attention, and it was the timbre and the lilt of the word. So as I was mentioning before, sometimes it's just something a little bit different that captures your attention. Um, and so that's one of the reasons why I marked him. Uh, and then, so there's where our three agree upon, and so now we just have to talk a little bit about our ex, our next two. Lau: And I wanted to make mention about Josh too Because Josh, and I don't know, I don't know if this is age related or, or what, but there's, he's right in the middle. There's an interesting gray zone that he's in between that cool -- Anne: Yes, I agree. Lau: -- surfer dude, laidback guy. And someone who's a little bit more professional and on it, someone who's a little bit more with it, the guy in the know. So he has that standup comedy, funny, fun appeal to him, but he has the serious enough that he can land it and have some ethos there. Anne: Agreed. Agreed. Lau: That's why I love Josh. Okay. Um, okay. The two outside of that, yours was Carol and Alicia. Anne: Carol and Alicia. Yes. Lau: You know, close second, this is what people spend fighting behind closed doors about for like hours or days is like you're kind of fighting over people who are all talented. Anne: And that's it. I think, you know, and, and here's the deal, here's where it comes in. So Lau and I are gonna discuss who those other two are gonna be. And, uh, this is probably what happens in most casting , right, offices or whoever's fighting you for the client. And we'll just go back and forth, uh, on the reasons why, you know, we either want this for the callback, right? And, and even what during the callback we'll be figuring out, well, you know, what is the reasoning for any one particular voice? And sometimes you just don't know what that is, and it's not always based on performance sometimes. Lau: No. It's just sometimes it's just like an instinct, a feeling, an impulse. And, and in my mind I'm thinking some of these people are like, oh, okay, so if this person can't do it, they're booked, or they get sick or whatever, then this person could easily go in. Totally. So it isn't the case where I really love this person and I really don't love this -- It's not always that case. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: There's a lot of like, gray zones of people that kind of fall in the same grouping, but that just don't make it to the booking, you know? Um, so Carol's voice is fantastic. I mean, it's very, to me, very corporate sounding. It has very businessy, corporatey, flight attendant-ish, finding the exit kind of sound. I like it. I love it. It's, I felt it was a little bit too objectified, a little bit too removed for the level of warmth that I was, was looking for this 'cause it is travel. When I think about travel now, and I think about number one, trying to reach the younger people, the younger generation, I think about a slightly, you know, not younger -- younger is a mythical word. It's just like a slightly more, more energized or more youthful kind of thing. Anne: Sure. I get that. I get that. Lau: And then also a, a, a little bit of like boxy or squareness in terms of it. Anne: But now when I, of course, Carole, as you said, more corporate and of course, you know, I'm very attuned to the corporate ear because I do a lot of that myself. Now, I'm also gonna say for Carole and thinking of travel, I was thinking, oh, she would make me feel comfortable on a plane, like if she were the flight attendant and so Expedia. So that was one of the reasons I thought it fit. But I'm going actually, and I'll cede you Aria because I love Aria. Lau: You'll raise me Aria. Anne: I'll raise you Aria because even though I didn't check her, I do love that voice. She's got that youthful, that youthful style if that's the market we're looking for. Um, she, you know, we did give her a different script immediately. Like she literally had no time to even voice it and have it come out of her mouth. So I have to take that with, you know, a little bit, uh, you know, a grain of salt because she really didn't even get it out of her mouth, except that was the first time. So for me, I had written that it was a little fast, but I understand why, because it was the first time coming out of her mouth. Now if I'm going on my gut and saying, you know, could you convince me, Aria, um, yeah, you could because of, because I like the timbre, the tone of her voice, the demographic is there for the script. And, uh, so yeah, that's my, that's my thoughts. Lau: And, and you know, I just wanna point out that, you know, if we don't forget about who are really, who's our target demographic for this, and is like both of these women could absolutely deliver this script. But when we get back to, you know, who the client really wants us to be looking at, it's really that, you know, 18 to 35 demographic. Because let's be honest, that's most of the people that are on like Travelocity, Kayak, Expedia, and going up-up-up -- not to say the 40 and up are not doing it, but for this particular one, one of the goals is to kind of find someone who has a bit more energized or youthful presence. Anne: All right. You've convinced me. Lau: So anyway, so that's one issue there too as well. Okay. Anne: Yep. You've convinced me. Lau: Okay, so Alicia kind of fits that. Anne: Okay. Lau: Alicia kind of fits that. Anne: Oh yes. Lau: Um, and I love her quality. She's got a rocky, dirty sort of like textured young sound. So I do like it. I, I felt like it was a little slow, like it wasn't as energized. Anne: Yes, I agree with you there. Um, and I wasn't, I wasn't thinking slow in terms of the read, but more contemplative and thoughtful. And she was another one who had a really nice different sound on the word -- she interpreted the word color toward the end of the script a little bit differently than most other people too, so we can find our colors. And I feel like that the, the operative word obviously in, in any story that we're telling, right, there's some operative words in there that really need to kind of hit the, the listener. Color is one of those words. And she really had a different, a slightly different pitch on the word color, which is why I I marked her. So. Lau: Right. Now, here's the thing that you and I both skipped over. And you guys listening in, this happens all the time. Um, you guys both, ironically we both skipped over the fact that the client does want diversity for these roles. And I don't know how I could skip that over, but I got excited with the switch out of script, but -- Anne: Well, we did change, we did change it for this purpose to all genders and ethnicities. But you're right. I mean, diversity is something that has to be a consideration and -- Lau: Right, authentically, right, diverse. So whereas like someone like Kelly, who I know very well and is a total pro, and can do this in her sleep fits that bill in so many ways and the voice is so layered and rich and textured -- Anne: Oh, I agree with that. Lau: -- and seasoned -- Anne: I agree with that. Lau: You know, it's, we're gonna have to go back and forth on, you know, the age thing and the youthful-ness thing because she's much more of a mature sound in my mind. Anne: My only, my only comments, I mean I did, I did like Kelly, I, my only comments was that she was a little too fast on the read I thought on that. And so, but you know what I'm -- Lau: But we can direct her. Anne: I could -- okay. Lau: Where she's directable. Anne: I feel that she -- all right then, then. Alright, so then I think we have our five then. Lau: And you know how I know she's directable, for those listening in? Because we know her personally. We have a relationship with her. Anne: Okay. Now -- Lau: Normally I couldn't say that if I don't know her. Anne: That's what I'm gonna say. So, and only, and only in this instant, right, if, if you know a casting director, here's an advantage, right? Um, if a casting director has heard you before or hired you before or has worked with you before, you know, it's, it behooves you to have, you know, a, a, an excellent relationship. Or when you work with them, make it as smooth as possible. Make it easy for the casting director. Make it easy for them to work with you, and they'll remember and have you coming back. So. Lau: And quite oftentimes, the casting, we see this all the time at the agency, we'll come back to the agents and go, love it. Great. Good. Need some retakes. It's too slow, I need it, da da da da. Right? And then we can go back to those people and we know that they can do it. They're capable of it. They're willing to. Anne: Yep. All right, So then we have our list, our callbacks. We're gonna call these five people back. Nicole Fikes, Aria Lapides, Manny Cabo, Josh Wells, and Kelly White. Congratulations. I would like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys were amazing. I can't wait for the next episode. Lau, love you. Thank you so much, guys, and we'll see you soon. Lau: Great job. Anne: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

It's time to build some rapport. Anne & Lau share their tips for making quick connections + how to turn it into a meaningful relationship. The truth is, relationships are what drive our careers—and they can do more for us than just pay our bills. They can provide emotional support, professional connections, and even opportunities that we may not have otherwise had access to. In a world where the internet opens us up to millions of potential connections, building rapport is more important than ever. You share yourself online for a reason: to further connection! We're all so busy, and we know that it's hard to find the time for things like cultivating relationships. But trust me: if you're not building rapport with people, you're missing out on a huge opportunity…and we're here to show you how it's done. Listen up! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring back to the show Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau. Lau: Hey. Hey Anne. Anne: How are you? Lau: I'm fab. How are you? Anne: I am amazing. And I just wanna say again, thank you so much for doing this series with me. I really am loving all of the conversations that we're having. I mean, such amazing conversations. Lau: I love it. Anne: I feel like our relationship is just growing and we're nurturing it, and I just love it. And it makes me think about how important it is to network and to grow relationships in our businesses. And I thought it'd be a great topic to talk about today. Lau: Beautiful. And I'm always ready to talk about the superhero in everyone. Like, I love finding those superpowers, I know you do too, those hidden superpowers that are in all the VO talent that we meet work with. Anne: Absolutely. So there's a lot of ways I think, to network with potential clients or your clients and build relationships. What are your thoughts about when you're new to the industry? How do you start to even build a relationship with your potential client or reaching out to clients to develop a relationship? Or even let's say your agent, there's so many things we can talk about. Lau: That is the question of the day, isn't it? And that's a biggie that we all get, and it's hard to answer only in the sense that it's so large. It's so overwhelming. It's such a universal question. I always sort of break it down from the get-go, 'cause I feel like in my brain, if it's in small nuggets and little chunks, it's much easier to digest. So the first step for me is really defining what is the difference between building a rapport with a potential client or a producer or casting, and the difference between that and already having an established relationship. I think that many have to kind of go back to the drawing board with that and know what the difference is. I simply define it by saying, listen, building rapport is your instant connection. It's your instant impact. What is the effect that you're having on your listener, your audience, your potential client? And it happens really fast. It's like 10, 15 seconds. It's really starting to happen. And the evaluation process in our business is very quick, is that everyone well knows. It doesn't take forever to sort of sum someone up when I'm building rapport. So we have to consider that warm up period, that prep period of like, how do I wanna go into this meeting? How do I want to set a tone when I go to the conference? How do I want to prep and present when I'm walking into a space, even if it's an online space? Anne: Sure. Well, I was gonna say it can even be digitally as well, right? How you present yourself or have an initial outreach. Let's say even an email, so to speak, you're starting to try to reach out and build rapport with a potential client. And so it's really like an introduction of yourself and a reflection of who you are as a business. And so I think it's important to really maybe have a strategy on maybe how to do that, depending on who it is you're reaching out to. I would think that building rapport with, I think somebody new that you've never met before, let's say an agent or a potential client, would require some sort of a strategy that within, I would say 10 or 15 seconds, you can make an impression on someone in a positive way obviously. We've talked a little bit about, and I know on other podcasts, I've talked a little bit about cold emails, which it's really important how you introduce yourself so that you're not off putting to someone else or appearing to be, I think, to self-centered or too much about me, me, me or I, I, I, and I really believe to really start to develop a rapport with just about anyone, I think you have to come from a centered heart of service. You know what I mean? How can I help you? What can I do for you? If you wanna build, I think a positive rapport with a client and be authentic. What do you think? Lau: I think that's perfect. And, and our business is a business. It's like any other business out there. You know, I would say we never know who we're next to in the airplane or in the elevator, in the restroom or we're in life; we're living life. And so anyone we're near that is in our sphere could be a potential client. We have to always be thinking about that. Like, woo, how could I make an effect, an impact, impression on this stranger, so to speak, someone I don't know at all, and in a minute or two, all of a sudden we have an instant connection. So there is sort of like a magic there. There's a mystical piece in there that you have to make happen. Like you have to take agency for saying, I am going to assert that I'm not going to wait. Anne: I love that you said that. I think honestly, if I wanna think about our relationship, right, I met you for the first time when we were on a judging panel together. It's like literally we were in a professional environment on a panel, and I was so impressed with you. And I was like, immediately, I'm like, oh, I have to meet this woman. I mean, and I just felt, I did feel like an instant connection. And I think a lot of that has to do with maybe similar personalities. But the first thing I did was reach out to you, and I'm not just saying, oh my God, this was, you know, oh, I saved the day or I did, you know -- no I reached out with, because I was so impressed and I genuinely said, oh my gosh, I really wanna meet you. And let's talk because I just think you're amazing. And I think that's something that you can think about as a business if you wanna reach out to someone like a potential client. Oh my gosh, I love your product. Or I've seen the work that you've done, and I think it's amazing. That's like kind of a good way to build, I think, strong rapport with someone. Lau: Absolutely. You know, what's amazing too, is that we were online, like many are online. We were online. Here's the fascinating thing. We didn't know each other at all and we hadn't met and we didn't even speak to each other. And yet I think we could feel something, that energy shift, and you and I couldn't move fast enough. I don't remember if I emailed you or you may emailed me, but we literally were on that same wavelength -- oh, have to connect, have to connect, and, and within a day or so we were connected. And then I feel like I have known you for years. Like I literally -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- we haven't met in person. You're in San Diego area and I'm, I'm in the Boston area, and we're 3000 miles apart. And yet we can still have that mysterious energy through building rapport together. So it really is quite impactful. And it shouldn't be underestimated at all, how you can build -- it could be a one time exchange or it could be a lifetime of moving into the relationship space together. Anne: And then developing and nurturing that relationship as you go on. And it's interesting 'cause it made me think, I started off by saying even digitally, right, we can create rapport with someone that could be a potential client of our business. Also the way you present yourself online in public. Right? And we can talk about in person as well, but online, if you are putting out content, which so many people, you know, in this business, we say, you gotta get out there on social media. You gotta put out content. Let people understand who you are and your brand. When you are doing that, when you are putting content out, you are theoretically, I'm gonna say building the blocks for building a relationship with a potential client. So things that you're saying online or putting out there, I think you have to also be a little bit careful about because potential eyeballs are on that content. And so if you're going to be saying, I don't know, things that may be negative or combative or maybe very controversial, remember that there are other people that you may not even be aware that have their eyeballs on that. And that could build maybe a negative rapport. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: If you're not careful. I think that assuming, I guess I'm gonna go in the digital realm, assuming that what you say is only seen by the people you think. I mean, I think it goes a lot further than most of us even realize. Lau: Right. And I, I think you identified something so pivotal in the, the differentiation between a rapport and already establishing relationship. Which I like to think of simply as it's based on time and based on trust. We may have a very strong rapport together, very, very connected, but we don't have time on our side. I'm not talking about you and I. I'm talking about in the general business world, we don't really know each other well enough. It's only through action over time do we get to know what our value system is, what our principles are, how we work, how we function -- that takes time to unfold. So the stronger your rapport, I'd like to believe the quicker you can start building a relationship together because -- Anne: I like that. Lau: -- the masks start coming down, you start to reveal more. There aren't as many filters on because you're slowly developing some trust together, and that's incredible, but we can't always expect that. It just isn't always going to happen. Anne: Right. And a client that you've developed that, you've got a good rapport and that over time you've developed that trust -- I think when a client trusts you, that's when they come back to you again and again and again, and that is what can help to really grow our businesses. And I think each one of these relationships is something that you have to consciously really think about and nurture and work at it. I don't think it's something that you can take for granted at all. I know that I don't take any of my clients, my jobs for granted. I'm grateful for all of them. And I think coming at it with an attitude of gratitude also helps to nurture that relationship and, and build trust. I think trust is so very important to establish over the long haul with your potential clients or, or people that you're working with in the industry. For sure. Lau: Right. And I like to say too, it's a feel good kind of thing to create because not only is it important to have over time to retain a client and to make money and have a viable career and get your ROI, but also it feels good. It should feel good to know that I am delivering something that someone needs and is satisfied within their timeline. And that they are going to come back to me. And there is that reciprocal kind of energy that is a part of the reason why we're in this industry, is that we want to know we're satisfying. We want to know we're pleasing. We want to know filling, filling the need, solving that problem -- Anne: That we're loved. Lau: -- so to speak Well kinda. Anne: Right? Don't we all just wanna be loved? I used to say that all the time in the corporate world, right? Part of the reason why I think so many people, at least when I was going through the corporate world, were so stuck in your jobs and you feel like, ugh, I'm stagnant at moving. I think it's, we just wanna be loved. We just wanna be appreciated for what we do and for us to have some acknowledgement of that. And then when that happens, then it becomes a very reciprocal, mutual give, take, give, take relationship. And so it's really not any different in our own businesses. Lau: It really isn't. And if someone does for you, Anne, a live testimonial or they record it for you, they say, Anne is great. She gave me this and I'll never forget her. And I love her -- It's obviously marketing power to do that, to have your case study, to have your testimonial. But when you look at that, when you play that for yourself a year later -- and I can't speak for you, I'm speaking for myself -- there's this innate, deep sense of satisfaction that I may or may not remember what they paid me, but I absolutely remember the experience of working with them. Anne: Yes. Lau: And that, that is their outcome. And that we made something that is immaterial, so to speak, real. We made it real. I think there's a surreal nature to what we do, 'cause it's not always time, a physical product. A demo is a physical product. But other than that, it's more exchange and process and craft and acting. It's hard to come down to qualify what that is exactly. And then when you hear it from that client or that talent, I mean, I'm getting a little verklempt right now. I'm telling you, like I kind of wanna cry right now because it is life changing. You've helped them find their sound, their voice, their identity -- Anne: Oh, absolutely. Lau: It's just awesome. It's awesome. Anne: It brings me back to my teaching days as well, you know, with my students. I mean, I got to help shape some of their lives as they were being educated and going through school and I've watched them grow up. And it becomes one of those things where it's like, ah, it's just such a feel good heart situation. And I think that that really means a whole lot when it comes to doing something that brings us joy. And so, you know, developing, nurturing those relationships that can really give back in a way that's more than just money. Right? We talked about in our, one of our last episodes, businesses with purpose. Well, I think that feeds into it really well. And part of the purpose is to, I think, develop a good rapport, those good relationships. Now online -- I started off by kind of talking about it online -- I think in person just accentuates the relationship building or accelerates the relationship building because then you've got that, you know, we're looking at each other in -- on a video right now and, and we're hearing each other, but when we actually get to physically meet each other, then there's that other energy. And so I think when you're trying to develop a rapport with someone that maybe you're just meeting at a conference -- there's so many of the voiceover conferences these days now -- it's important to also have that physical rapport, developing a physical rapport with people that is, I think, open and embracing opportunity to meet and really share with other people. Lau: Absolutely. I do think the brilliance of being online now, if you never get to meet your other party in person in a room, which many of us just can't. You know, we live too far from each other. We're never gonna unfortunately see each other in a room. It's incredible to think, my gosh, I am developing a whole relationship with this person online, and we've never been in a room together. And it reminds me of how some of us feel about some of our A-list movie stars or some of our A-list pop stars. Am I really gonna be in a room with Tom Hanks in this lifetime? Probably not. I hope so, but probably not. Can I feel like I have a strong relationship with him over the years of supporting his work? Anne: Sure. Lau: Of connecting with his characters, of loving what he has to say? Yes. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And so sometimes that just has to be enough and it's the, the digital relationship, the online relationship that we can connect with that has to go as far as it can go, because we're just never gonna see those clients in person. Anne: And that becomes some of my wonderful colleagues who are in animated series or in video games that are beloved and have fans that are out there that the same kind of thing that have developed a, a relationship. I just watched the movie Elvis last night. So that whole thing just kind of, it makes a difference what you're putting out there. Now here's the question, because sometimes I feel that what you're putting out there digitally and/or even online with, through video or even in person, can there be too much, can you share too much? Can there be a place where maybe in a professional business, we've gone too far and overshared? What are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. That's the question of the day, honestly. I really do think the more I learn about online media, the more I'm learning that that can be personal, but it can also be generational. Because we have millennials and up and coming Gen-Zers who are digital natives who grow up with that in their hands and share every and everyone else, every single moment of their day and will contextually mix that in with their businesses. And that heightened level of personalization is not only accepted, but expected. For me, I find it jarring, to be honest with you. Like, I don't necessarily wanna report what kind of eggs I'm having in the morning. I just don't but I've had some of my audiences, including like my own children go, okay. But just so you know, like we care about that. We kind of wanna know. It's not irrelevant to us. That's like part of you, and if we're gonna work with you, then we kind of wanna know that. So it, to me, that's a lot of generational gap in there. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you, so I guess personality-wise, I've always been kind of an open book. I was always the talker, and I think a lot of voice artists, maybe those people, the talkers in the family. But I've never necessarily had an issue sharing with people. But I also think that I'm strategic when I share and where I share. And I think that when I'm looking online, when I see a share that might be a little, I don't know, maybe a little TMI or a little -- Lau: Little provocative. Anne: And I wonder how does that fare with your potential client? And again, because you might have a millennial that hires you, and I get that. And they wanna see or feel, or hear an authentic you. So when I put myself out there, I mean, I try to be as authentic as possible. I mean, and when I'm talking on the VO BOSS podcast, I'm pretty darn authentic, but it doesn't mean that I always have to be like every single minute of the day overly authentic, because I think that I have certain clients that may not want to know certain things about me. Because it would affect whether they would hire me or not. And I think that's the biggest question, right? If I share too much or if I have, let's say I'm distressed and I'm sharing that I'm distressed on a day that maybe I'm supposed to be doing a live session with one of my potential clients, right? And now they understand maybe that was why the session didn't go so well. Or maybe because they already know so much about me that maybe they won't hire me again, right? Because it affected me to the point where my performance was affected. I don't know if I had a bad day and you know, I'm sharing it and I share a lot, and I have that potential client, maybe they're not gonna wanna work with me after that. Lau: That's the risk we take. I mean, can't please everyone all the time, you know? I mean -- Anne: Yeah, that's true. Lau: -- the truth is what pleases one audience is just going to maybe repulse another audience. And I think the more we can pivot and shift and switch up to different audiences is just about the best that we can do. But I'd rather be pliable a little bit. Like I don't wanna be that person that says, oh, I'm 40, I'm 50, I'm 60. And this is the way I do things. And I'm not open to anything else because this is my people and this is -- I kind of wanna be able to relate to different generations. I wanna be able to meet people where they're at, even if I'm not great at their level of -- their mode communication, I want, I wanna be perceived as someone who is trying and who cares about it and who wants to reach them and what they need, which is gonna be very different needs than what someone who's 20 or 30 years their senior is going to be. So I like that flexibility. That's what I'm trying to say. I think in networking and in building rapport and deepening relationships, the more flexible you are -- I would say, think of your relationships as like an architect. If you had a beautiful building, it was a very tall skyscraper type of building, how does that fare in a city like Tokyo or San Francisco, that's getting earthquakes all the time? We're getting conflict all -- in problems all the time. We have to have a super concrete, strong foundation. And then the higher up we go, we have to be able to flex in the winds. We have to be able to literally blow back and forth. And I like to think of us as business people and as networkers, as people that have very sturdy foundations, but that can flex with our clients and, and mold and different directions, you know? Anne: I love that. Yeah, I love that analogy. That's just a wonderful analogy. So let's talk about a lot of conferences are popping up, and especially now I'm noticing a lot of them. And we were talking about it earlier. I think everybody's ready to get out there after the pandemic -- I say after the pandemic, I mean, I don't even know how to define it anymore. I just know that everybody, I think after two and a half years of this is ready to just get out and hug people or see people and get that physical connection, which I can completely understand. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna be going out a couple times this year to conferences. And so in terms of, let's say building a rapport or even nurturing a relationship, maybe you're gonna meet somebody finally -- I'm gonna meet somebody at one of these conferences that I've been working with for two and a half years -- what kind of tips do you have for building rapport? Or what would you do in terms of in-person networking tips that we can give the BOSSes out there? Lau: All right. Let's talk. I mean, there's some of them that are fairly simple that you and I have seen over and over and over again, mishaps. Like for instance, how many times have we gone to a conference or a networking event and we're meeting people and they have no business cards? They just, oh, I'm sorry. I have nothing to give you. I ran out. I forgot them. I -- whatever it sounds so insanely simple. And yet having something on you that is hard copy, that is old school hard copy like a business card still is pro, still is a professional rapport building tool rather than just writing it down on a notebook or piece of paper. Anne: I wanna make a point, 'cause I am gonna go to this conference coming up in, in October. And I said to my husband, I said, 'cause my husband does events at shows. And I said, so do people still use business cards? He goes, oh my God, yes. 'Cause I was like, or do I use like here scan my QR code? You know, digital? Now I wanna say that usually there's an app that goes in a conference that you join the app and then you can put all your contact information in the app and then share it with other people. I think being able to have both, I love the touch feel. It's again, like why do we still have books? Because I love to touch and feel the books. And I think we are gonna be appeasing anybody that we might meet again, like you said, we, we're gonna be flexible. I think have both. Make sure you're logged on to that app, have your contact information. You can share it that way, or have that touchy feel business card. And I think that that really would be a great way to, to be prepared. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get business cards and refresh my business cards now. And I do like the touchy feel. Lau: I do too. Anne: Take it outta my wallet. Lau: I do too. Anne: I remember, gosh, back before it used to be like scan my QR code or here's an app for the conference, It used to be a thing. You must have cards. And we would all be like, oh my God, you don't have your business cards at this conference? You really need to have a business card if you wanna be considered a professional. So now I think if you can kind of be flexible and have both available, I think that's a good way to prepare. Lau: Yeah, I agree totally. And I also don't wanna alienate a potential friend, client, contact because they're just not techy. Like they don't do the scanning thing. They don't know much about it. They're not into it, but they're brilliant. And they like run a great business. You know what I mean? So I don't wanna be the one that makes them feel out of it, out of the scene because they don't know how to do that for instance, that would be one reason to have plan for sure. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I also wanted to point out like prepare how you want to enter the space. I think a lot of folks just kind of run in, and they're stressed out, and they're running late and they're, they're just there. Think about, you know, I always like to say, visualize the room, visualize the room. Who will be in there? You should be able to see many people who will be in there before the event actually happens to have an idea of the caliber of folks that are coming in, what the presentations are, so forth and so on. But think about the traffic. What kind of traffic may be coming in? Who are the people that you want to target in terms of your, your perfect client, your perfect connection? And really make a list, like jot it down, you know, make notes in your phone, however you do it, so that you walk in and you have a strategy in mind -- Anne: And you're prepared. Lau: You said that earlier, you're prepared. You're not just kind of floating around and seeing who comes to you and who -- you are really kind of assertive, 'cause you only have a certain amount of time. Even if it's a two or three day conference, you're gonna wanna sit in on shows and webinars, seminars. And you're gonna -- time gets eaten up very fast at those events. And there's oftentimes a lot to seen a lot to do. So map it out, have a strategy in mind, say, I wanna meet these three people? Who are they, and really have that ready to go. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Now here's a question which I know a bunch of people, if they are at a conference, and there are agents or casting directors there, what do you consider appropriate for people that come up to you and introduce themselves because they might wanna be represented by you? 'Cause that's a tough one. Sometimes people will not go up because they're timid or people will go up and be overbearing. So what is your advice for that as an agent or a casting director in terms of what do you consider to be professional? Lau: That's an interesting question. I honestly have not to been to many conferences in person since COVID to really -- when you're on online, you know, you're sort of protected. The automatic digital boundaries already there. So you're kind of protected by that. Whereas in person, I haven't really experienced that, but I'm gonna imagine there's a groupie thing that goes on. There's a groupie mentality. Like if I were to see some of my favorite people like Rob Paulson or Debbie Derryberry -- I mean, I have relationships with them, but if I didn't, I wouldn't wanna run up and like crowd them and be in their space. I'd wanna pay attention to protocol, pay attention to structure. So there are very specific protocols and structures when you go to those events where you're gonna see them on a panel or you're gonna see them where they stand in a line and you're gonna take a photo with them or whatever. Okay, agents are very similar in that. Oftentimes they're in a workshop or a panel or they're invited guests. And if they're not in a structured setting where you're gonna ask them questions, there's a Q and A, you can talk to them, I wouldn't recommend running up to agents or casting and like smothering them. Anne: Right. And giving them a demo or giving them your contact. And I think again, you have to kind of go like, well, approach them as to like, what do you know about them? And I always say approach was not the I, I, I, me, me, me, but about, oh my goodness. I have another voice actor that I'm friends with. And they've talked to me about how wonderful you are and I really appreciate meeting you. And that's it, nothing like, I don't don't think pressing like, are you accepting new -- I feel like that's just almost too much sometimes. Unless you've got the indication from the agent that they're looking for more people to put on their roster. Lau: Right. Anne: I don't know. It's read the room. Lau: Read the room, read the room. And oftentimes they're there for a reason. Like they're there not just to educate you, but to find people. They're there to field new talent for their roster. Oftentimes it's like innate, that's the reason why they're there. So don't crowd them. What you wanna do is you wanna listen to what they have to say, take notes on what they have to say, refer to what they have to say and follow their contact information that they provide to you, and that day, like I wouldn't wait -- we talked about windows of time -- that day, while you're at the conference, go to a spot -- Anne: I really enjoyed your presentation. I really, yeah. Lau: Boy. Yeah. Yeah. I just sat in. And when you talked about this, I was really impressed. Anne: I love it. Lau: I'm a talent I'm seeking representation. It's wonderful to hear you. That's it. I wouldn't do more than that because you don't need need to. Right? You, remember you don't have a relationship. You're building rapport. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. Great discussion today. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. So I am going to say thank you so much, Lau, for today's conversation, and BOSSes out there, you can have a simple mission, but yet a big impact: 100 voices, one hour, $10,000, four times a year. If you wanna find out more, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to join. Also big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network and build rapport like BOSSes. Find out more at iptdl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Lau: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you feeling the energy of newness & hope that we do? Anne & Lau are getting ready for the new year and all that comes with it. Before you jump to goal setting, take a minute to think about what has happened this year & what you want to create next. Reflecting on your accomplishments is an empowering exercise that can help you feel successful & inspired. It is also essential to take a look at the industry as it is now & research any predictions about the near future. Understanding the demands of the industry will help you build your goals and business plans around what will serve the current market. Now BOSSES, it is time to goal set. Think big, but not unrealistic…and if you need help, listen up because Anne & Lau have your back. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so happy to have back to the show the one and only Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey, I love how you took a breath before you said my name. Yay. Anne: I did . You deserve that extra drama, that extra drama pause. So. Lau: Thank you. I love that. Anne: Awesome. Well, you know Lau, it is coming to a close, the year of 2022. Lau: Unbelievable. Anne: Yeah. And of course 2023, with that comes the new year, resolutions, goals, all those good things. And I think I wanna kind of take a step back and not just talk about 2023, but I wanna reimagine what your business and what the BOSSes out there, reimagine what your businesses could look like in 2023, maybe in a little different light this year. Because I think, I feel like people are feeling more comfortable now. They're getting out, they're seeing each other. I think there's a lot of hope and renewal in the air. I mean, I'm feeling it. And for me, I've taken a look at what's going on this past year and the industry and how it's shifting. And I think we really need to take a good look at our businesses to see how we can maybe shift and evolve and reimagine our businesses in the new year. Lau: Mm. No question about it. And this is the best time. I'm always saying, you're winding down. You're tying up loose ends. You're excited about any holidays that are happening. And even if you don't celebrate holidays, it gives you permission that everyone else is to just relax, be with family, take it easy, but then also to plan. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: To think about quarter one in the new year, where do you wanna be? Who do you wanna be? And what does your vision look like of your business? Anne: Yeah. Lau: That's exciting. I love that time. Anne: It's so exciting. I mean, and I really like to have that time to reflect. And I'll tell you what, you and I, we are soul sisters, right? We work, work, work, work, work. And the other day I literally, I had to go to a doctor's appointment. Maybe not the most fun thing in the world, but it got me into the car. And it got me on a long ride 'cause there was traffic. And I actually really like that. And I miss that in a way because whenever I would drive, I was able to think, right? Because I can't be typing at my computer. I have to just sit there and think. And I came to the realization, Lau, that I have been in business for myself for 15 years. Lau: Wow. Anne: And you think I would've thought about that before. I mean, I kind of knew it, but I just, it hit me all of a sudden. Lau: Awesome, awesome. Anne: Wow. That is something to be proud of. And I know you have been in business just about as long as I have. Lau: Mm-hmm. Anne: Full-time, your own business. And I think that number one, before any BOSSes start to think about what they are going to do next year, right, and create goals, I think you should stop, reflect, and give yourself credit and realize your accomplishments that you have so far. Because that, I think gives you a great baseline to jumpstart a new year. Lau: Absolutely. And you know, I was thinking about you saying that you were in the car, and that's that autonomic thing in your brain that you know how to drive the car. You don't have to think about it. So you can go into your imagination, you can go into processing things, and you've got the privacy. You're alone. And here's the thing, we're moving forward. Most of the time, unless we're sitting at a light or backing up, we're moving forward. So if you drive, if you bike, if you walk and you're moving forward, and you're thinking about your life, think about your business as moving forward. You've got this kinesthetic energy that's happening as you're thinking about what's to come. Anne: Mm-hmm. Lau: And we're meant to be in action. I know I'm one of those people, Anne, and I know you are as well, that I am better about working and getting things done when I'm in action. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Lau: I'm not as good on the outside of it. I'm better on the inside of it. Anne: Well, you know what else too, when I am though, in that moment where I can be quiet and reflect, I also like to watch or listen to other creative things so that I can learn and be inspired. And so, believe it or not, I was listening to another podcast, and it wasn't anything to do with voiceover, and it didn't even have to do with business, but it was people in the creative arts. And when I listen to them banter back and forth about what they do on a day-to-day basis, or that maybe they're interviewing somebody that's in television or the movies, and it always gets me thinking outside of my bubble. I really think that most of us voice talent. We stay in this bubble, this safe, comfortable bubble of, this is my industry, this is what I know, and this is how I need to go forward. These are the steps that other people in my industry have told me. And I think that you really need to step outside of that once in a while to get creative inspiration. Like I love watching good movies. I love listening to new music. I love listening to anybody in the creative arts talking about their career or what they do to inspire themselves or to get ahead or to grow themselves or their business. That inspires me and gives my business new ideas. Lau: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm right there with you. And just last night I was watching a program on PBS about the American Musical Theater. Anne: Mm-hmm. Lau: And the Jewish influence on that thematically, like the Jewish people that are coming in and influencing that. And they talked to Mel Brooks, and they talked to Stephen Sondheim and they talked, and here's the theme. They came up with. The great musicals were all revolving around hope and joy and happiness, you know, "Put on a happy face" and "Singing in the rain" and all. And I'm telling you, I was crying my eyes out with joy. I was crying my eyes out because I wanted to remember that what we do in our industry should be around joy rather than around negative. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You know, we can still have agendas, we can still have purposes that are serious, that we really care about. We wanna uplift and we want to support, but overall, I know I wanna have a joyous outlook about myself, my business, my clients. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: My world. I want, I wanna go in with the upward mobility rather than downward. Anne: Yeah. Upward. And along those same lines is really understanding what it is that you do and how you contribute to the world and society and within your business. And I think that we talk about this all the time, know your worth, know your worth. But I think we, we talk about it in terms of just knowing your worth in terms of what do I charge? Right? What do I charge for this voiceover job? I want you to think broader and grander than that. Like, how does my voice fit into the very small piece of the pie that can affect people on grand levels? Do you know what I mean? My voice that fits into a documentary or something that's uplifting, or a meditation or, or however that works in a creative, entertaining spot. How does that fit in? And how does it overall affect not just you and your business, but society and the world? And when I think you start to realize where that sits, you start to value yourself and your business even more. And that helps you to create even grander goals that can be achievable, not grand goals that are not achievable. It gives you inspiration that you can achieve this. Lau: Yes. And that there is an outcome that you are responsible for. And the outcome is surrounded by impact. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: Like what kind of impact and outcome does your audience, your client base, the people who surround you, what are they going to feel? What's the affect? What are they going to learn? What's your logos and education around what you bring to them? And how will they be persuaded? You know, like how will they move in a direction or a new direction based on what you're giving to them and offering them, which is you're offering them value. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You're really giving value. So it's not just about setting your rates and setting your pricing. Anne: Sure. Lau: It's about saying, take a step back. What value am I really giving to them? And how long lasting is that value? Anne: I totally agree with you. And so in looking, I think, BOSSes, before you start to make those goals for 2023, and you start reimagining, start taking a look at what you do now and start looking beyond just the surface of -- for me, for example, I don't necessarily do documentaries every day of my life or impactful commercials every day of my life, but I do voiceover every day of my life. And every single piece that I do voiceover for every single piece of copy has a meaning and has an impact to someone out there. And I think we don't often look beyond the words. Right? And the end of the job and the paycheck. I think we really have to say, what is it that we are contributing? And also, I think if you are really thinking about the overall impact, it's gonna help you with your performance as well. Your performance is gonna mean more artistically. And also, again, I think everything just falls into place because again, as I was mentioning before, if we look at the evolution of this industry and how things are changing and evolving, technology, it keeps coming. Right? It keeps coming. There is the potential for a large amount of disruption in our industry because of technology. If you remember, I think the first was home studios and then ISDN, right? Or ISDN, that was a technology that led to home studios. And then home studios led to more and more people in the industry. And then after that, I'm thinking, what else is changing in the industry? Online casting sites, right? Pay to plays. That was technology that, it disrupted our industry. And technology, by the way, doesn't just disrupt our industry. Technology disrupts every industry. And again, there's another movement for, I'm gonna say it, synthetic voices. And I know that people don't wanna hear that, but yet it is coming. And so as businesses and when we are trying to imagine our business moving forward, we need to be aware. We need to keep our eyes open. And we also need to think that if synthetic voices are coming, we need to be even more human in our craft. Right? Even more human, to make the impact to differentiate ourselves from the other product that may be coming. And also possibly consider having an additional product in your service. Right? Maybe a human voice. Well, obviously a human voice, right? But maybe think about how a synthetic voice might play into your business. I'm not gonna say that I am out there taking away jobs, but I'll tell you what, they're not gonna stop for me. . Lau: Exactly. Anne: And so for me, I wanna hone my craft so that I can give as much human Anne to my performance and make an impact with that as I can. And so that gives me lots of goals for next year, lots of goals. Lau: Tons of goals. It's never ending goals. And I think there's the nature of human beings, not just in our industry, but to sort of have resistance against change. Anne: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lau: Like anything that looks scary, unknown, change -- will that take my job? Will that take my value away? Will that take my worth away? Well, our job, I think as human beings is to say, no, I have to re-envision what my value and what my place is, and then I have to offer that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: If I sit back and I put up the resistance wall and I become super toxic, and start low talking everything and downgrading everything -- listen, as you said, it's not gonna change because I'm upset about it. Trust me on that. Anne: Exactly. Yeah. Lau: So when in Rome -- like you have to figure out, how do I carve out my business and rearrange that to fit the new waves that are happening in the industry? And if you really look closely, there's going to be positives. There's going to be pros, there's going to be great stuff. And then there, there will be cons too. Anne: Yeah. Lau: So I always found like you, I need to stay positive about it and really do the due diligence of figuring out how do I swim in this market? What do I have to offer? And what do I need to change and re-envision in order to still fit into the industry? Anne: Right. And I think it's important, again, just to reiterate with some different words, but saying the same thing, it is the market. We are a business who provides a product to a market, and we need to pay attention to that market. I can't just be a voice actor and say, but I have an amazing voice. Hire me. Lau: Right. Anne: It doesn't matter how great my voice is if the market is not demanding it. Right? And that's just business 101. You have to understand what the market is looking for, and then as a business, offer something that will serve that market. Lau: Yeah. I mean, if it's any consolation and you view it all as a commodity, and that we are a product, in essence, go out and look at every single product on the market from an Apple computer to Tide soap to your car, to your house, whatever. It doesn't stay the same. It's all new. It's improved. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You've got new ingredients, you've got new packaging, you've got environmentally friendly, you've got da, da da, da, da. It just doesn't stay the same. Like, I'm this laundry detergent and it's good. And take it or leave it. It doesn't stay that way. It has to change with the mindset, the vision, and also the generational influences. It has to shift and change to appeal to those target demographics. And it doesn't mean that it's not good anymore. It means that it needs to move in the direction where that audience figures out what the value is. Anne: We can't, "get off my lawn!" We can't do that. Lau: No, no. Anne: We just, we just can't -- we may be getting older. And it's interesting because as I -- Lau: What are you doing on my lawn? Anne: Get off my lawn. Lau: Get off. Anne: As I mentioned, I've been in the industry for 15 years. I have seen a lot of change. Lau: Anne: Again, when I mentioned when I started home studio was just a thought. Lau: Yeah. Anne: It wasn't a requirement. Online casting sites hadn't begun yet. And really, if you're not, again, watching and looking and educating yourself, you're not gonna be able to move forward. Your business is not gonna be able to move forward. So if you're a voice artist and you love what you do, and you wanna remain a voice artist, then I think you definitely need to take some time. And this time of the year is a great time to do it. If you haven't been writing down your accomplishments -- So I'm gonna say before you write down goals, I have a wonderful planner that I write down weekly, daily accomplishments, things that I've done. And it's something that, a place that I can go to look back at. And it gives me a nice benchmark to say, oh yeah, you know what? If I'm feeling down and I feel like, oh, it's a slow week and what's going on, I don't feel like I'm making any progress -- I can go look at things that I've written down and say, wow, you know what? Like the epiphany that 15 years, wow. That's something to be proud of. Lau: Look how much you did. It's very easy to forget about it and brush it aside when you're busy and stressed about the up and coming projects. But when you really take the time to look back on everything, oh my goodness, you go, did I do that? Oh, . It's incredible. And you should be proud of that. Like you should take the time to celebrate it. Take the time to really go, oh my God, that's me. I did that. Like I always say, we're the alchemists thinking about creating a business out of nothing. Anne: Right. Lau: There's nothing there. It's air. And then you fill it with a thought and you conceive it, and then you start to plan it, and then you start to execute it. And then when you do it, you go, oh yeah, I just did it. It wasn't a big deal. Yeah. I got to do -- well, you forgot about the whole process -- Anne: It was a big deal. Lau: -- leading up to it. Anne: Exactly. Mm-Hmm. Lau: A huge deal getting there. Anne: It's interesting, as I was thinking about that, I'm also writing like, what are the biggest myths about starting a business in the voiceover industry? And one of the biggest myths is that you're born to be a business person or born to be an entrepreneur. And I think I'm the first one to negate that because I wasn't born to be an entrepreneur. I learned everything as I was going along. And so in reality, that's an accomplishment. Lau: Oh yeah. I don't even know anyone who, even if they're born into families of entrepreneurs and they're studying in an entrepreneurial, you know, MBA track, they're not naturals at it oftentimes. They have to learn, they have to absorb, they have to be in the surrounding, they have to be in the mindset, the thought process. And that's not even to say, are they brave? Like, do they, they have that risk taking, that calculated risk taking thing. Are they willing to work really hard? Are they creative? Do they have a creative brain? I mean, that's all stuff that is part of your makeup, part of your chemistry. But you have to have the exposure, the teachings, the environment to help cultivate all that. Anne: BOSSes out there, if you haven't already gotten a pen and paper and started writing down these accomplishments -- because if you are here, if you are in the industry, if you've started your business, that is an accomplishment. And that is something to jumpstart, springboard off that for reimagining your next year. And I've got some, you know, hefty plans for myself, more so than I think I did this past year. I mean, I always like to think big, but this year I'm really starting to evolve and change, and I think get off my lawn kind of talk. I have been planning for my retirement for the last five years. The wheels have been turning. I wanna make passive income so that when I retire, I can travel and I don't have to be taking my mic everywhere with me and enjoy my retirement. So I've always been planning year after year after year, what can I do? How can I evolve my business? How can I grow it? And part of that is sitting down and looking at my accomplishments and then figuring out what new things do I wanna do for this next year? And I think because I've seen a bigger change in the industry this year, more things out in the industry that are affecting the industry and trends and where they're going -- and I think next year I want to be able to offer more to my clients. And so I'm going to have to really dig deep and figure out what parts of my business do I wanna change? Do I want to upgrade? Do I want to, I can't be Anne Ganguzza more than 24 hours a day. I just don't have the time. And so now I've gotta really figure out a new way to rework the business so it's more efficient. And I can put more of my, I guess I wanna say my genuine self into it and not have to spend hours doing things that maybe I can outsource or have another method of getting them done or maybe go a different direction. Lau: Hmm. No question about it. I think that that's the way to go. And when your BOSSes are ready to do that, delegating, growing your team, going from solopreneur to really businesspreneur, entrepreneur, whatever is important when you're ready for that step. And that's a courage step. You have to have a lot of courage and faith that you've reached that certain benchmark, but you need to get to the next level up. And in order to do it, you can't be everywhere all the time. You have to have others helping you. That was hard for me, honestly, Anne, because I'm the type of person, I don't know, maybe I'm a control freak and I'll say -- Anne: No, I hear you. Lau: Maybe I'm a control freak, but I like to touch everything. You know what I mean? Anne: Yeah. Lau: I'm like a toddler. I like to touch that and touch that email and touch that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I'm learning that I don't always have to do that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And sometimes, and this was like a huge ego thing, and BOSSes, you might be able to relate to this, the idea that it won't go well or it won't be of high value if I'm not involved with it, is really not true. It's just not true. It's your insecurity potentially. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Lau: Being worried about things going wrong versus that client really getting their value, enjoying themselves fully with another coach or with another engineer, or with another whatever you do like all the millions of jobs. I always say job number 82, you know what I mean? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's something to be said when you do outsource. I mean, I've had, gosh, I wanna say I've had my second hired employee is still with me. Wow. She's been with me for, I'm gonna say nine years now. Lau: Wow. Anne: Think about that. Nine years. Right? Lau: Nine years. Anne: I have been employing, I mean, I have at least nine people on my team now, but they've stayed with me. And that's yet another thing to think about. If you're outsourcing, you have to manage, right? You have to manage employees, you have to delegate, you still have to delegate so you have a little bit of your piece of the pie. You have your hand, your fingers in the pie there. And it's something of an accomplishment to have an employee that is loyal, that wants to stay with you for that long, that you can hopefully motivate and inspire. And it's, it's not just about the money for them. Because I realize that if I want quality work and the type of work that I'm so control freakish myself, right? It's gotta be at a level that's way up here -- if you want your employees to perform at that level, then you have to respect them. You have to treat them well, you have to pay them well. And that also is a big challenge because we are our own business and to invest money, right, again into ourselves for performance training, for demos, for marketing, for outsourcing, it's always, I think, a scary thing for us to spend our money. Right? Our well-earned money. And so again, that's another thing that I can have on my accomplishment list to say I have been a good boss to my employees. And they have not left me in the dust. They've stayed with me. We have a wonderfully respectful, productive relationship. And I'm very proud of that. Lau: And you should be proud of that. That's amazing. And in a world where most bosses just don't care, like workers are dispensable, oftentimes they're not even recognized. It's like you're a number in a lecture classroom kind of thing -- you have built a core business built on value and warmth and a family friendly environment and really nurturing, really just nurturing your talent and your clients, and really making sure you've got a caring, watchful eye. Hard to find that. That is invaluable. Like that is priceless. You know what I mean? To be able to do something like that. We pride ourselves on that too. And I recently said what you said. I said, oh, I've been an amazing boss. Like, I'm incredible. But here's the double-edged sword. I have been the toughest boss that I have ever worked for. I'm much tougher on these than I am on the people that work with me and for me. And that's an issue. Like it's good that you're able to drive yourself. It's not good that you drive yourself crazy. Anne: Oh, I completely agree. I completely agree. And you know what's so interesting? I think that because our product is really a very personal, part of our personal brand, right? It represents our personal brand, whether we are hiring somebody to help market, for us to help engineer, for us to help communicate to potential clients for us, they are representing our brand. And so by default, I like to say, of course, I'm the most caring, warm boss out there. But part of it is also because they're representing my brand, right? And I wanna make sure that I get tip top work, right? Top-notch work. I know myself, I'm not gonna get top-notch work from workers who aren't paid enough. Right? How can I preach the value of knowing your worth if I don't pay my employees what they're worth? Right? How do I get them to care about me and my brand? Because if they write an email and say the wrong thing or come off on a different level or a different way, that is impacting me and affecting my business. And so I have to make sure that my employees are on the ball all the time. And, and I think that's part of the motivation too, for treating your employees well. And I always think you should treat your employees well anyways. Happy employees are gonna be ones that really serve your company and will stay with you for the long term. Lau: That's right. That's part of your envisioning and re-envisioning of your business, that I'm working with the best crew that I can work with. I'm inspiring them. I'm offering them the resources they need. I'm educating them. I'm taking care of them well financially and emotionally, but I'm also motivating myself in a new way and getting courageous about that. Like what's the next step? Let me be honest. How do I level up personally and professionally? How do I get to that next place? And I'm telling you, it can be a leap. I'm going through it myself. It can be, after 14 years, it is really crazy to like take a leap to go from whatever it is, whether it's the six figure to the seven figure mark. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Or to go from this level of client to that level of client, or it's very, very unsettling to do that. Anne: And I'll tell you another thing. I always think about at this time of the year, right? Next year, am I going to raise my prices? Right? Lau: Hmm. We were just talking about that. Yeah. Anne: And I think that, Lau, that's a whole 'nother episode, but it's something, BOSSes, I want you to think about, right? Are you going to be raising your prices? And in economic times such as these, right? When there's a recession or the looming recession, how much are you going to, are you going to change your prices for new clients? Maybe your existing clients, you'll give them a grandfather clause where they get the same rate. But I do think that every time I change my prices, I have a little mini heart attack because it's scary even for us, right Lau, when we -- Lau: Oh, yes. Anne: It takes courage to do things like that, to raise your prices, to hire someone, to fire someone, anything when it comes to your business for growth, it takes courage to grow. Lau: It does. Anne: And I'll tell you what though, I have all the faith in the world for 2023 and the BOSSes that listen to this podcast, that you guys are gonna go write down those accomplishments so that you can have a springboard to really, really reimagine what your business will be like in 2023. And think big. I like to think big, but don't think unrealistic because I'm ever hopeful that I really do believe that when I do reimagine my 2023, I will always make it so it works for me. Because I certainly don't like, I don't like to fail. I mean, I do fail all the time, but I don't like it to look like a failure. So I just say, oh, I changed my mind. So . Lau: Yeah, exactly. Anne: But again, it's all about growth. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And I think that if you have done this for any amount of time, or if you're just getting into it, taking risks and having courage to grow your business -- you don't have to say, oh, I'm gonna go from $1000 a year to $100,000 a year. You don't have to make some crazy grand goal. As a matter of fact, most of my growth has come from goals that I kind of worked backwards from. And so they were step by step by step. And so each one was incremental in a realistic way, so that I never felt like I was losing or a failure or I couldn't make it. Lau: Exactly. And and you know, we have fancy terms that we use now that really justify those moves. Like changing your mind is now called pivoting. We pivot. Anne: Yeah. There you go. Lau: Because it either doesn't work or it's not what we thought it is, or it's just not panning out for whatever reason, or we no longer wanna do it. It doesn't satisfy our overall goal. So we pivot in a new direction. So as you're able to transition and pivot and move, I would say, stay in action, move forward. Keep envisioning and re-envisioning, and don't be apologetic if you need to change course, if you need to pivot like you do, Anne, like I do every single day. That's really part of the game. And if you're gonna be in it, you need to keep that action moving forward. And just go for it. Like don't hold back. Go for it. Anne: Well, I am Inspired, Lau, by you and I thank you, Lau. This is our last podcast episode of this year. We are continuing next year, which I'm so excited for. Lau: Yay. Anne: But yeah, so I have to say I am truly grateful and appreciative of having you these past few months as my co-host and absolutely love growing my business with you and growing VO BOSS. And for the BOSSes out there, I wanna say it's been an amazing year. Thank you so much for supporting us. One last thing, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes and reimagine your 2023 with ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. I have all the good feels for next year for all of you. Keep listening, we love you, and we'll see you next year. Lau: Thanks everyone. See you next year. Anne: Thanks, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What's the deal with representation? In this episode, Anne & Lau break down the basics. They share what agents do, how they can help with your career, & why you should (or shouldn't) sign with one. Lau shares her experience as an agent & what she does on a day-to-day basis while Anne gets answers to common questions voice actors have about having an agent. Agencies are businesses, but they have the power to help you find work, making them a potentially valuable part of your career. Unfortunately, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to the "do I need an agent" question. It depends on the kind of work you are looking to do & what your goals are. We know there are many ways to BOSS with and without an agent, but if you want to learn more, we've got you covered. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. It's a good day, Lau. Lau: It's a great day. It's always a great day to talk voiceover. It's like we could, I was just saying we could talk forever. This podcast should be like day and night. It should never stop ever. 'Cause we could talk so much about it and life and being a human being and all the things we care about. There you go alongside that. Anne: So I do wanna say that we recently just met and really clicked and of course I'm super excited that you are now representing me. And I thought about it because I love the fact that I think you get almost as excited, if not more excited about providing me with opportunities than I do about being repped by you. Lau: Totally. Anne: And I thought it would be a great time to talk about, should we get representation? What's the deal with representation or should we not? Because I get that question all the time from my students. Lau: Oh my gosh. I do too. It's an ongoing conversation. It's a great discussion to have; all questions are good questions. There's no answer to it. I don't think there's a specific answer to it, but the discussion's really important to have, and you're right. I do get really off on getting the work for others. I love you do the feeling. And I was trying to think back when I was a performer full time. I dunno if I felt that way about even myself. Like I was always kind of that agent manager type, you know what I mean? I was just kind of like that Jewishy producer myself, you know, kind of thing, New Yorky thing, whatever that is. I love it. I love it. Not just for the work itself, but for the process of being able to get someone inside of something that they're on the outside of. It's almost like a secret. To me, it's like a safe, like I get to help someone find the combination to the safe. Anne: Oh, I love that. Lau: And get inside of it and discover what the treasures are. Sometimes it's money and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just a whole bunch of like a portal of a world that you weren't in before. It's Narnia's closet. That's what it is. Anne: I love it. Well, I have to say I've done casting myself, and I always love that let's fit this voice talent to this job. And it's wonderful when it comes together like that. Lau: It is, it is. Anne: And so I think that it is having agents is a wonderful thing. However, agents solely represent a portion of where I get my opportunities from. And I always try to explain that to anybody who like, when they first start getting into the business, they're like, when do I get an agent? I need an agent. I'm like, well, I literally was working in the industry for about four years full time before I got my first agent. I think it's helpful to really understand the role that agents play in helping to get work for voice talent. So let's start with you, Lau. Tell me a little bit about your role as an agent and what types of are specific genres that you specialize in. Lau: So I have now been in an agent capacity for about two and a half years. So I'm still relatively young in the agent world. I was a coach and for many years, still am, and a performer myself, still am. But I mean, that happened well, we were right in the middle of the COVID and you know, as a business thinker immediately, I start thinking, what problem can I solve? Who needs, what, who needs what, what's missing, what's missing. So we're Boston based in the new England market. I said, oh, I don't know of any voiceover divisions. We don't have a department in an agency that's voiceover. We have some great studios that will do casting, but we just don't have that like a New York, like an LA has that. And I sort of aspired to be like the big guys. I always said, well, now we're in a global market, right? We're in the middle of COVID, we're locked in our houses, everyone's still doing voiceover. And I said, what can we do? So I wanted to open this division, and I ended up pioneering the MCVO and opening it under the umbrella of Model Club. That's my colleague, Tim Ayers who owns and operates Model Club. So it was a really interesting, unorthodox way of working where this company, my company Lau Lapides started to become a contractor to a licensed agency to start a division that we had the knowledge of how to do that. So we went ahead and did that, started stocking the roster. And I sort of have been around agents for most of my life. Anne: That was stocking the roster, not stalking, right? Okay. Lau: Stocking, like adding people in, adding voices in like -- Anne: Stock. Lau: Yeah, stock. Anne: Not stalk. Lau: No, not stalk. All right. I have to articulate that one really well. Right? . Anne: I think that was that New York accent Lau: It was that New York accent. And I had to learn as I went, to be honest with you. I think this is the kind of trade that people who go into casting or go into agency work are working with agencies and working with casting. And they're apprenticing and they're learning how to do it as they go. You can't learn it in a classroom. It's not that type of thing. And so I was learning through the years how to do these things by kind of doing it. And this was a fit and this was kismet. And then I launched it when we launched it. You can imagine we had immediate response from talent all over the place -- Anne: Oh, I bet. Yeah. Lau: -- who wanted to submit because it's exciting simply to have a voiceover agency or voiceover division. And so that was kind of cool and exciting, and then figuring out how do we connect to breakdowns and how do we get some of the best auditions, and how do we connect the dots with current clients, whether they're regional clients or national clients, and just sort of spend time figuring that out and doing that. But we were lucky in in the sense that we started getting great auditions almost immediately, like -- Anne: That's great. Lau: -- between the clients that we already had, Tim already had, and my connections nationally, we started getting a lot of stuff in, and it was almost overwhelming to, to find talent for that. Anne: I wanna just kind of interject here because I think most talent don't think about what is a talent agency, right? And I just wanna kind of bring it home and say, we need to understand that a talent agency or an agent, they are a business. And their business is to match clients up with voice talent. And so they have their own work to do in terms of securing clients that and advertising to clients, that they have a great roster that they can help fulfill that need. So I think sometimes voice talent forget that agents, they aren't magic. They don't have magical clients. They have to do a ton of work to get those clients and to keep those clients. So understanding that an agent is also a business will help you to understand that once you have an agent, when you get an agent, there needs to be a relationship there, where we both can benefit each other. And that agents are also in a business and need to make money. And part of that is by matching clients to talent. And if there is a profit margin there, then obviously the agent is going to work that deal. And the reason I bring that up, Lau, is because I think that a lot of agents work specifically in broadcast media, because there's opportunity for more profit there versus let's say a one0off non-broadcast sort of a deal. So maybe you can expand upon that a little bit. Lau: Yeah. I mean, I think just a baseline for people who are learning about agencies, or maybe wanting to tier up to the next level of a better quality agency, just simply put agencies are the middle people. They're the middle women, middle men. They're in the middle. So they're the contract dealers, the negotiation people, the people who find the talent, connect the talent to the job, help with casting. The -- we're not casting directors per se. We don't take the place of a casting director, but we do help in all sorts of capacities. And we do get clients that say, hey, what are your thoughts? Like, can you help narrow this down? Anne: You do shortlist, right? You do shortlist? Lau: You do shortlist. Anne: I was gonna say, yep. Lau: You do recommendations. You do shortlist. And because sometimes they happen very fast, they will rely on you to make quick recommendations and have very quick answers to questions, questions on availability, questions on rate structure, questions on union status. Anne: Sure. Lau: Questions on what their setup is in their home studio. So there's a lot of stuff that has to happen that goes through the agent that has to happen fast. And the reason they'll go to an agent, many reasons, but one is for speed, so that they know that they're gonna have their stuff when they need it as quickly as possible. They don't have to chase the talent. Anne: That makes sense. And they don't have to cast the net wide and make their own decisions. So, yeah. And I think, so, let me ask you a question. Do, do the majority of agencies, or is this really dependent, do they shortlist themselves or it depends on the client if the client is looking for -- Lau: Yeah, it depends on the client. And once in a while you will have a private client that is with other agencies as well. So like if it's something that's on a national platform or even a regional, if you're going through a casting office, they'll have other agencies. They'll be submitting their top talent from other agencies. They'll whittle that down fairly quickly. And then they'll, you know, reach out to you. As an agency, you're never the only fish in the ocean. Anne: Right. Lau: I think the, what agents try to get is private clients. Like we love private clients. Because we know like when I get a company, that's, let's say they're a regional company, and they're gonna cast and they reach out to us, I know that like eight times out of ten, we're gonna book that job. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We're gonna book that job because they're privatized. We have a relationship them. We can provide the same talent over and over and over again. Whereas sometimes it's a hit or miss if you're going through casting -- Anne: And you're reliable. Exactly. Lau: Right. Anne: Just as we need to be as voice talent. Right? Just as we need to be to our clients. Right? Agents need to be that to their clients. Absolutely. Lau: Exactly. So the relational factor's really, really important. And then of course they are assuming and rightly so that we're doing a screening process that they don't have to do. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to audition. They don't have to find the talent. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to do any of that. We're doing that. Anne: Right. They rely on you because they know that you have a roster of professional talents that their studios have already been vetted. You already are familiar with the roster and their specialties and availability, that's another big thing. Right? Lau: That's right. Anne: Who's available? And so that I think really takes care a lot of the tedious details that they don't wanna have to deal with. And so. Lau: Oh no, they don't wanna deal with any of that. Anne: They reach out and oh gosh. Do I even begin in saying like the naming of files, of audition files? Lau: Oh, it's endless. Anne: Who takes care of that? Lau: It's endless. That's right. I always joke. It's like they don't wanna have Jim in cubicle C handling that because Jim doesn't know how to do that, if you know what I mean? Like they don't get any of that. And so it would be overwhelming to them to go into a big pocket of say, thousands of voices to try to find what they're looking for. That would be way too overwhelming and time consuming to do. So that's another reason why they still go to agencies because they know it's not gonna be thousands and thousands of voices. It's gonna be the top 500 voices for critique. And then out of that, the specific submission for their criteria of their breakdown. And then they've got their top 15, 20, 25 people, which is more than enough for them, 'cause they know again, they're screened in their top to find who they need. And it's funny because at the beginning Tim went from, oh, it's okay. I mean, if they have an iPhone, and they can can record in their iPhone they don't need a home studio, different -- to, okay. You need a studio, a source connect. And I was like, no, we want the best talent nationwide if not international, because we are now competing against very large agencies in the hub. So we don't wanna shorter ourselves by saying, oh, as long as they can jump on a phone and do something. No, no, we wanna have the industry standards in place so that if we book a McDonald's or we book a Dunkin Donuts, so we're really ready for that because they're auditioning your studio as much as they're auditioning you now. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Lau: Everyone knows. Anne: That is the truth. Lau: So the agent depends on that. . Anne: I love that we're learning about agencies from the agency's business side because it really can help us as voice talent to understand like your day-to-day kind of activities. Like let's talk about your day when you are throwing out an audition to people. So tell me, what do you do as an agent when you are casting? Lau: Well, I'm a little bit unorthodox in the sense that I now run two businesses. So I run my studio , which is separate, very separate, then the agency side from MC Inc. So when I run the agency side, we're constantly getting in auditions, which we've been filtered by the different relationships we have, the services we work with, but so they're coming in sometimes daily. They're coming in throughout the day. We're looking at them, making sure that they're legit, they're coming from where they need to come from, and then getting them out as quickly as possible. And that can be a challenge too, because if we're working on other work or we're recording or we're coaching or we're whatever, we have to really multitask or stop what we're doing to do that. Because I know once that audition comes to me, there's a chance it's gone out to X amount of other agencies. Anne: Sure. Right. Lau: So I gotta get my sneakers on and get that out really fast before some of my talent may get that from another agency. Anne: Sure. Now question. Yeah. In terms of like audition deadlines, so this is the bane of my existence, right, with my agents. Right? Because I don't have a lot of time during my day however, so when my auditions come in from my agents, I wanna turn that around quickly, as quickly as I possibly can. So when you understand, let's say, okay, here's your audition. Deadline is this date, are you determining that date for your agency? Or is that the client that's determining that date? Lau: Well, the client gives us the truest date that they have. I don't know how accurate it is to their inside process. Anne: Right, right. Lau: But they'll give us the hard deadline of what they need. Then we'll move the deadline in so that we have time to process it. Anne: Sure, sure. Lau: And we also have time for retake. So let's say there's someone that we have to have in on this audition, but he's on vacation and he is in the mountains and he has no reception, but he can do it tonight or tomorrow, we'll hold that for him so he can do that if possible. So we always time it. So let's say it's due Thursday at 5:00 PM Eastern. We'll time it so that we're getting it in by like Wednesday, if possible, so that we can process it and leave time for problems as they arrive. Anne: And so when you say process it, you are downloading the audition file. You are doing shortlisting if you have to, if your client has asked you to. Correct? Lau: Yeah. Anne: And so is that you personally, or do you have a team that helps you to do that? Lau: We have a team. I have a team that helps me do that. And the industry standard now is Dropbox. So we're all using Dropbox to transfer our files, and even going out now, I'm watching slates go out. So slates are slowly going out where we're sending in a zip or we're sending in a pack and they know where it's coming from. So we don't actually need a slate. So some of the private clients and some of the companies we work with say no slate. We don't wanna hear it. We don't need it. Great. Anne: Okay. Nice. Lau: One less thing to do. That's good. Anne: Sure. Lau: And then we try hard to establish our own protocols if they don't give us direction on labeling and they don't give us direction on this or that. We try to say, listen, we're just not always getting that from the client because they don't care about it. They don't know about it. And it's not relevant. So just do this when you don't hear about it, just do this. Anne: Whoever has to download the files, this is the way I feel, whoever has to download the files needs to be the one that determines how the file is named. Lau: Yeah, exactly. And sometimes agents will send it out and you just won't get that direction, and people are confused. They'll say, wait a second. Am I missing something? I'll say, no, they didn't give us that direction. We're not giving it to you. So just go to your default of, we always label like this, label like this. Anne: I would say name, project, Anne Ganguzza dash and then name of the job. That's my default. That's it. Lau: I do say, Anne, one of the biggest things you can have as a benefit for yourself is speed. Because ours are not that speedy. We're not like a pay-to-play site where you have to get in in 10, 15 minutes. We'll give you a day. We'll give you two, even three days, sometimes like a really long time. But if people are gonna wait until the third day, what'll happen is like, I already know there's a natural bell curve in every roster. I know like the top voices we have, unless they're already on another gig or they're on vacation, they're gonna submit within about an hour or two. And I just know they're gonna be the first ones up for it because A, they're great like you, but B, they may cut that audition off because they may get enough in the first day. And then they don't need to listen to day two or day three. Anne: Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Lau: So I just say to people, you know, don't, don't put yourself under a terrible rush, but don't wait until the last minute either. You know, get it in as soon as you possibly can, move it out the way because those, as I notice our booking ratios, those people tend to be booking more than folks who are waiting longer. Anne: The ones that get it in first, yep. That makes sense. Lau: They are. Anne: That makes sense because at some point too, I think that we have to realize that when you're listening to so many auditions at one time, at some point it starts to become like white noise. . Lau: I would imagine it's overwhelming. Anne: I's overwhelming. Lau: Even it's hard for us to listen to demo submissions sometimes so if we get 10 or 15 at a time, it's time consuming, and we wanna give it what it needs, the attention that it needs. But we have to be careful with the time. Anne: It just brings me back to like, this is what we're always saying is that you need to differentiate yourself from the pack when you're sending in that audition. And it doesn't mean that you're different is like -- a lot of times I'll look at the spec and I'll be like, okay, I get it. But I still wanna add my own unique spin on it because everybody else is gonna look at those specs and try to do it exactly like those specs or what we think they want to hear. And so I think making it more unique in that audition, I mean, for me, it's what have I got to lose in making it unique? I mean, if I can make it unique, they're gonna know that I have the capability of making it sound just like in my head it says it should sound like. Lau: Sure, sure. Anne: So I'm not gonna give them that. I don't wanna give 'em what I think it should sound like. I wanna give 'em that unique take so that it, it makes them wake up. Lau: That's right. Anne: It makes them get me the gig and then they can direct me to whatever they want afterwards. Lau: And, and do it up front because you don't know if they're gonna listen to your entire demo. Anne: Exactly. Lau: And some of the demos we get are not even industry standard. They'll go on for two or three minutes. Very rarely will we listen to a three-minute demo just because we get it, like the first two reads or three reads, like we get it, we get what you can do. So put something up front that's your strong suit, something you get hired for all the time, and then put something that's incredibly diverse and varied from that right next to it. Anne: Are you talking audition or are you talking demo? So like -- Lau: I'm talking demo. Anne: Okay. Lau: I'm talking demo, but also audition. I would say audition as well, because let's say they don't say how many takes they want. I'd say, okay, if you can do three unique takes, do three unique takes, right? What's the worst? They don't listen to them all. But if they do and they really love your voice, make them super diverse, super unique, and very pinpointed as to where you live and where your voice lives. Because there wouldn't be any reason as send in more than one take that sound the same. Anne: Right, right, exactly. Lau: That's a very, a common mistake that people make, you know, otherwise you send one great take, just do your best. Take one great take and call it a day. But if you can do diverse or -- Anne: A completely different. Lau: -- do it. Yeah, do it. Anne: Absolutely. So now let me ask you a question. So when should voice talent search for an agent? Is there a time? Lau: Again, I'm really unorthodox about that. I know a lot of agent friends I have say, don't talk to me until you get like five years under your belt. You've already been with an agency. I got some good credits and I love your demo, and I trust you because that's what I represent. And I get that. I don't feel that way actually. I feel like people should be up for it when they feel ready. And then it's very quick to tell if we think that they're ready. Even if they haven't worked yet, even if they have no resume, we've taken in some people that are amazing, that are new. They're just new. They're coming in. They did a beautiful demo. They're clearly professional in the way in which they write to us. I just instantly like them. I said, why would I hold them back on the basis of like that they haven't worked? They have to get work to work. So if we love their voice and we feel like, oh, we've got a market for their sound, bring them in. Right? But the bread and butter voice is always gonna go first because we have a lot of fans of animation and video game and all of that great stuff. It's just, for us, it's not gonna be the big market for us. And it isn't for a lot of agencies. I think agencies more and more are bringing in slowly animation opportunities, but much of their stuff is just real person stuff. Anne: I'm glad you said that. So I'm gonna say some agencies specialize in just animation or that's their thing. And I would say that those would be located more in the places like LA and those markets where animation is there, but in terms of other agencies, I'm gonna say, yeah, your bread and butter is commercial for the most part, right? Lau: Yeah. Yeah. It is. For the most part. It is. Yeah. Once in a while, we'll see an animation come through, we'll see a narration come through. We'll see a couple different things, but yes. And I have found that with friends that run agencies too. Once in a while, they'll get a great industrial or a really nice nice eLearning piece. But much of the time they're just doing as many nationals as they can get in and as many of their regional market and their local folks, as they can get in to really, really pay the bills. Anne: Good. I'm so glad you said that. And I just wanna kind of make that point to the BOSSes out there. It becomes, where can you make a profit? And I don't mean to make all agents to be all like hungry, profit driven people, but you are a business. And so for the most part, those nationals and those regionals, those are the ones that are bringing in the money in, the consistent money, right, that will be able to make a profit so that you can survive as an agency. So then I wanna also point out that if you are a voice talent, and the majority of your business is e-learning or corporate and that sort of thing, I have a ton of, and I know a lot of voice actors where they have a lot of work in that area -- that happens to be where I do a lot of my work as well. So in terms of, for me, when I was getting agents, I have like 10 agents all scattered around. It doesn't mean that I get auditions from all 10 agents all the time. And I have certain agents that I work closely with because I book with them and we have a relationship. And so that's where my auditions come from, my agents. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I will take the time to do that. But those jobs that they're offering, they're almost all broadcast commercial genre. And I do get a couple of industrials once in a while from one of my agents. And so if you BOSSes are out there, if you are not necessarily booking in commercial yet, or you're not interested in commercial, then maybe an agent, you don't need one right away. I think everybody should have an agent. I think everyone, at some point should have a commercial demo. But if that is not in your future, that you don't like commercials. You don't think you'd ever wanna do one. And you just wanna spend your career doing eLearning, then that's absolutely fine. Lau: Absolutely. By no means do you have to have an agent in order to work because the world is filled with so many different, wonderful genres of voiceover. You just need to be inventive and clever about doing your homework and doing your research in these different genres. Like for instance, I recently brought into our studio, one of the big romance and erotica voiceover instructors, and she did a wonderful workshop for us. Anne, I knew nothing about that. I did, I just didn't know about--and she talked a long time, a good hour about the business of it, like where to find work. How to list your name, how to do this, how to charge your rates, how to -- and I think, wow, this is great. So do I need an agent for that? No, I really don't. Could I get an agent later in the right market? Probably, but you don't need it. So, so you have to determine, gee okay. If this is my bread and butter market, I probably wanna get an agent to get the upper level auditions, but in these other areas, I can probably make my own inroads and my own connections. Get some great clients into a combination of the two. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. BOSSes, it's not necessary to have an agent to get work. You can get work in multiple genres without necessarily have an agent, but I'm the type of person that I like to have opportunities, as many opportunities as I can. Thus, I think it's wonderful that I have these amazing agents, like Lau, that are on my team. They're on my side. They wanna see me work. They wanna get me work, and it becomes a relationship just like you have a relationship. And I love that we talked so much about your business of the agency because a lot of times, voice talent don't, they don't think about it and they don't realize it. And I think if they understood the perspective from your side as a business, it helps us to form, I think, a better relationship with you, because we understand where things come from, and why do I get that audition at 8:00 at night? Well, because all day long, they've been fielding emails and dealing with clients and you are getting it out as quick as you can to us. Lau: Yeah. And maybe it's coming from a different time zone. Anne: There you go. Exactly. So there's lots of things that we may not think about when we get an audition in for our agent. And also in terms of like, well, is my agent listening to me and shortlisting me or not? Or is it the client? Or how do I know that this audition wasn't sent out to hundreds of other people? And I think the really good agents understand the opportunity and will send it to the group of people that would be great for the opportunity. Sometimes I have agents that it seems like maybe they didn't do that. Maybe I just got like the generic send out all auditions to all the roster, and therefore I make my own decision. Lau: Yeah. I know, people hate that. They're not filtering . Anne: I know, but I'm thankful for the opportunity. And so, I mean, come on, we can all handle looking at audition and looking at the specs. If you don't fit the specs, don't respond. Lau: I was always the same way too. I was like, okay, it's not for me. Anne: Yeah. I would never complain about that. It actually kind of bothers me that I see some people complaining about that, the cattle call auditions. I'm like my gosh, it's, it's an opportunity. And it takes me a minute to look at those specs and read them and say, do I fit those specs? Am I male? No. So guess what? I, thanks. I'm fine. Just waiting for the next one. So -- Lau: It'd be like clients just from different businesses calling you or emailing you, be like, do you know, we don't do that? That's not what we do. And I'm surprised you would call me. We'd say, oh, how interesting, let me refer you to someone or let me find out more about you, what have you. Anne: I like that. Right. And that goes back like, look, if I got a castings spec, and I've done this before, where it didn't fit me, but I said, oh man, I know a perfect voice for that, I actually would write back to that agent and say, I have a great recommendation. Can I send this audition? Would you be open for me to send this audition? Lau: I love you. I love you. I love people like you and I have a number of people in MCVO that do just that. They say, Lau, you know, it's not me, but I've got friends who are actually this. May I forward them. And I'm like, yes. I love that. Anne: That's why I'm just grateful. I'm grateful to get the opportunity. And, and I just look at it as like, look at another, I get tons of email. It's okay. I can filter. It's not that big of a deal. Takes me a minute. Lau: You think like. I think it's just another job and why don't I wanna see a job? I'm gonna keep the script. I'm gonna have it as a reference. It's interesting to see who the producer is. I love it. Anne: Yeah. You learn a lot. Like, so what if that audition wasn't for me? Oh, that's kind of cool. I like that script. Right? You can just choose to learn. It's like one of the things, just an off topic, but when people say, well, how do I get work in corporate? Right? And I say, well, I go to company websites and I sign up for their mailing list because I wanna see who their audience is and how they're marketing to it. And so if I get the job with that company, I have a background information where I understand who that company is, who their audience is, what their brand stands for. I have all that knowledge that I can then use in a audition for them or in, in correspondence with them. And so the same thing. You can learn a lot. So. Lau: I'm exactly like that. As business people, as BOSSes, you wanna be inquisitive. You wanna be curious. You wanna know like, ooh, what's happening in that world? Oh my goodness. Who are they talking to and what are they concerned about here? And who are they looking for? I always say like, when you get an audition, get used to hopping on your smartphone, just like really fast. Look up an advertising campaign. See the kinds of actors they're bringing in. What does the company visually look like? What does it sound like right now? Just get a flavor of that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: You may not have time to do massive research, but just to hop on for five minutes. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like we need to be able to do that as business people. If we're gonna work with a new client. Oh, sorry. So don't you hate, Anne, oh, sorry, I didn't have time to go to your website. Sorry. I don't know exactly what you do. Anne: No, my God. Lau: It's at your fingertips. Just jump on for five minutes to have a little bit of language. Anne: If you're a student of mine, and you didn't check out the website, like that is just no. Lau: Or go on YouTube. Anne: That is not acceptable. Lau: What are they doing, you know? Anne: That is not acceptable, not acceptable that you did not research the company, but like it takes a minute. Takes a minute. Lau: Yeah. What about this one? I don't, I don't know how to pronounce this. How do you pronounce it? Anne: Oh my gosh. Lau: I said, well, go online, go find -- have an actor say it so that you hear what it sounds like. Don't just guess at it or not worry about it. Anne: We need to act like BOSSes, the BOSSes that we are. So what a great conversation. I love -- this was such a unique perspective. Thank you, Lau, for sharing that with us and sharing with the BOSSes. I think that's amazing. I would like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and learn like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you wanna make a difference with your voice and give back to those communities that give to you, check out 100voiceswhocare.org to find out how you can give back and have a sense of purpose. All right, guys. Amazing talk. Thanks again, Lau. We will see you next week. Bye. Lau: Thank you, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in doing what we love that we forget that our work is still just work (even if it's the most fun job in the world). This week, Anne & Lau are joined by special guests Aria Lapides, Carol Alpert & Daniel Marion to discuss how & why community support is so important. Building a creative family includes building support systems outside of your professional circle. This may include your family, friends, and even other voice actors who you can count on for help. The voice-over industry is a small world, and it's important to build relationships with fellow actors and creatives. They will help you grow, learn, and encourage you when things get tough. It can be hard to separate our egos from our projects but being able to do this allows us to accept criticism more easily. Tune in to join this VO Family… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Vo BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to bring back my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey, I'm great, Anne. How you doing? Anne: I'm doing amazing. We have a VO Family with us today. I am very excited. . Anne: Well you know, I think having people that support us in our businesses is so very important to our success. And I don't know honestly where I would be if my husband in the beginning had not given me his full support in launching our business. For an entrepreneur, launching a business, especially coming from a corporate background, I was used to getting that check every other week. And I had a very stable, I was gonna make this amount of money, and I was dependent on that to pay the bills. And going into the entrepreneurship of my VO business, all of a sudden things became very woo, I don't know what's happening today. I don't know what's happening tomorrow. When's my next job coming? And I'll tell you, the support of my husband was just invaluable and the support of my family too. I mean, I know there's so many of my students who will tell me stories about their families don't support them or -- I myself had my mother, God bless her. But she would say to me every once in a while 'cause she didn't understand exactly what I was doing. And she would say, you know, honey , when you get a real job, I think it's gonna help. You know? And I would be like . I would be like, It's okay. Mom, I'm an entrepreneur. And it was funny because it was hard to explain to people who don't understand the entrepreneurship lifestyle. Thoughts? Lau: Uh yes. And it's almost unexplainable. I mean you cannot -- it's truly a lifestyle business. It's one that you live and you experience and you have to be suited for it. Not everyone is suited for it. Many people want a nine to five job. They want Benny's, they want pension, and God bless them, and I'm happy that they know that. Like I'm one of those people that knows I don't want that. So you have to be okay with not being okay a lot. It's really important. Remember that famous book from the 70s, "I'm Okay, You're Okay," that famous psychology book? Well, we're not always okay. And so that's the little edginess, that's the little on the edge of the cliff that a lot of us love the dopamine kick and get excited by the risk taking of it all. So yeah, you have to be cut out for it, right Anne? Anne: Absolutely have to be cut out for it. Or if you're not cut out for it, you gotta get used to it pretty darn quick. It's always one of of those things. There's a lot of highs. There's a lot of lows. For me getting used to the lows and kind of driving through them, and we've talked about this on previous podcasts, really is a mental exercise in pushing good energy out there so that you can survive. So let's introduce the VO Family that we have here today. Now Lau, these are part of your VO Family, so let's have you introduce them. Lau: Oh, I would love to. So I have Carol Alpert, who we were talking about on another podcast. I don't think Carol was here. So I love talking about her when she's not here because then I can kvell, which is Yiddish for like just give her honors and awards and accolades and kudos, because everyone needs a Carol. Like if you could buy a Carol, you would buy it, put it on layaway. It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's so worth it, because she is my friend, my family, my support system. She's a sister I never had, so I can't say enough about Carol. Carol: Thank you. Lau: Professional actress and VO talent herself in her own right. And I'm thrilled to have her as part of our Family going in our 14th year. And we have Dan Marion with us from Texas who is just the bestest of the best, fantastic person. And you know, we haven't actually known Dan too, too long. I don't know, maybe a year, year and a half. But yet there's always this feeling with people that come into your non-blood related family that you've known them forever. And he's like one of those people that even across the Zoom waves and even across the states, we feel like he's part of us and one of our family, and that we support 100% in every way. Pro VO, part of our MCVO division family as Carol is as well. So that's thrilling, and he's a wonderful coach as well as has technical prowess as well. And then Aria Lapides, who is in the house and she is my everything. Anne: She's in the real house. Lau: She's in the real house 'cause she's like, I call her my better half. She is my daughter but has turned into my business partner and my best friend and really just a spiritual little fairy cohort for me to keep me floating, and to keep me imagining, and to keep me together in this whole crazy business we've created. And in her own right is now a professional actress and filmmaker and photographer and is really incredible visual and performance artist. And so she's a big part of our Family. Anne: Fantastic. So you have coworkers, you have two coworkers and a family member. So first of all, let's talk -- Aria. Being a member of the family, what's it like for you being a part of the business and being part of the support for your mom and in this voiceover industry? Aria: Oh wow. That's a big question, especially 'cause it's not just voiceover, it's so many things. It's all in acting and everything that you guys said is so true, the importance of having people to support you. Because in this industry, it's so blind. Like when you're sending a voiceover audition or a casting audition or a acting audition, it's blind. So all you have is your support team and how much they're pushing you and how much they're being truthful with you. And I could say that, you know, even though it's like I'm supporting my mom, which I do, of course, it's like she's supporting me just as much if not even more. Like she supports me in everything. And it's so important because there's so many different aspects from technical to the actual acting values that have to be there to, well what happens when I do get the job? Like what do I do? Yeah, I would say that it's a really amazing because I've been able to grow up in an industry that's very creative, very cool. Like really, really cool. Um, I know some people have family businesses that are a supermarket. So it's really cool to be in one that's very creative. Things are very open, you can coach, you -- I mean I've dived into filmmaking and producing acting reels and working with actors and, and I gotta say, it, it is really so cool to see like my mom every single day like have new ideas and new things that she's doing all the time. Like she's always so active and she's, she's right. It's a lifestyle business. She's almost never not working, which is wild. Lau: And you know, Anne, what's really amazing here is that both of my children, my son's Sage, who's incredible -- he's not in the industry, he's in a totally different industry -- were homeschooled. And so I was bringing them up as I was starting the business and running the business, which was crazy. Like it was crazy town. You can't imagine. So who knew this crazy little girl who was like throwing legos at me one day, it would kick in that she would be coaching clients and she would be directing a film shoot and she would be voiceover auditioning for Pixar. And it feels like that happened overnight. Like that just happened overnight. It's like how you and I feel about our clients. Anne, it's like you see the grooming of that throughout the years of the rapport, the relationship, the trust, the back and forth. And then all of a sudden it kicks into something in high gear that you see all of your hard work and investment in your business come alive. And I've seen that in Aria literally since a little tiny girl to now like the business has just created this whole human being that knows so much for someone who's only 19. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Incredible. Anne: Now, I'm gonna ask do you two disagree at times? I mean -- Lau: Yes. Anne: -- family wise or work wise? Lau: Yes. Anne: And how does that play out? How does that interact with your businesses? Aria: Can I start on this one? Anne: Of course. Aria: 'Cause it's so funny that you say that because, yeah, because like especially in like let's take filming for instance, it's so hard. And that's so interesting that you asked that 'cause me and my mom were having this conversation last night of like being able to let go of control and knowing that you are not your work. Like even my mom's business is not her. I mean me and my house is separate from me filming, me acting, me doing anything that's a separate entity from who I am. And there's like this level of separation that you have to do to be able to give over the control to a director or to your mom or to a casting agent to be like, that's a beautiful image. That's a beautiful take on this, but it's completely different, and we need you to do that. And it's like separating your ego from your work. And it's a really, really tough thing to do, especially from a young age, 'cause you're like, wait a second, I thought my ego was the thing that was driving these creative things that are happening. But it's like, no, no, no, no. It's just an idea. It's constantly shifting and changing. So the more that you are flexible with it, the more you can get better at it really. Yeah. Lau: Anne, I wanna jump in on that one 'cause that's a fantastic question. I'm actually gonna answer that super straightforward because Aria recently secured new agency representation, really big out of LA. And one of the meetings they had with me because I'm her momager, and for those people who don't know what a momager is, it's a manager, a legit manager who's also a mom. Or it could be a dad, like a dadager. But I'm a momager. One of the first questions they asked of me in private was, do you guys fight? And he comes from the, literally the school that I come from where we're in the same program together. And I looked at him and I said, yep, 'cause I'm also her coach for all of of her auditions. And he said, how does that play itself out? How do you guys remedy that, whatever. And are you honest with her? See this is good for the VOs to be listening to because if they deal with the manager or if they're dealing with a family member, they have to like start having these lines of demarcation. Like what works for their personal relationship and what works for their professional relationship. And I leaned over and I said, yep. Because I tell her the truth, because I want her to be the best. If, if she sucks, I'm gonna be the one to tell her before anyone else does. And he said, great, I'm glad to hear that. So we'll probably take her on then. Now if I had said no, she's the best thing since sliced bread, I would never fight with her. In fact, she needs to be a star. In fact you -- they wouldn't have taken her. They would not have taken her. And this is like the deal for all VOs when you're dealing with agents and and managers and the like. It's like be honest. Like be honest. You don't wanna be the person who's a difficult person, who is always causing conflict. And we're certainly not that. But you wanna be honest and transparent about, yeah. When you're working hard on your craft, there's a lot of rocky road, there's obstacles, there's just agreements, there's arguments. Yeah. There is, and how do you work through it? How do you problem solve it? That's what we're hiring you for. That's why we wanna work with you. Not because you're sitting in a place where you're angry or you're not talking to each other, it's not working out. But a place where you go through that wall and you get to the other side of it. And I believe that's what Aria and I has done through the years to be successful. Anne: I just wanna say congratulations and kudos on that. And what you said I thought was so important was getting to the other side, right? Because you're friends, you're work partners, you're family, there's going to be times where there's probably going to be arguments, there's going to be anger, there's gonna be hurt. And you have to be able to get to the other side of that so that you can move forward. And I think that was such an important point that you bring up, Lau. Absolutely. Lau: Yes. And there have been many times, and I'm sure parents who are listening to this right now with their children who may be in the industry, or they're in the industry, or they're both in the industry, sort of swimming through those very muddy waters thinking what do I do? What do I do? And I've been advised many times by pro saying, Lau, you need to not work with her. It's really important. Don't work with her. Don't bring her into the business. Don't manage her because you wanna have a good relationship with her. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. If all the families through all the generations could work together, we can work together. It's just going to be a little bit more challenging, but we gotta be able to problem solve that. 'Cause your family and your Family should be the most trustworthy people that you surround yourself with. Not that you can't get awesome friends in the world, but they're the people you come back to and home to and confide to. And so you don't wanna lose that. You don't wanna cut that off just because we are blood-related. Anne: So let me just direct a question back at you, Lau. How has Aria helped you grow? Lau: In every way. I mean like it's immeasurable. I can't even tell you just from the idea of being, or the fact of being her mother has opened up so many doors in me as a person, as an actor, as a woman that I would not have experienced if I had not experienced her. Not easy, very difficult road, but very, very, very spiritual. The path less taken in a lot of ways, in how we melded this whole thing together, and adjust my stroke of luck I think that I had a daughter who had such immense talent in these fields. Because just because someone grows up in the industry and on a Hollywood set or wherever doesn't mean they have talent for it. It means they're connected. So she has immense talent, and much of which has nothing to do with me. Like she's a visual artist. I'm not a visual artist. She's an amazing visual artist. Aria: Even if you are talented, that's just such a small part of it. Because if we were all just talented, then you know, we would all be in Hollywood. But it really takes that group of support. I mean, you know, Carol came to the studio for me to help shoot one of her tapes, and then I'll ask someone to help you reader. And it's because we've got such a tightknit -- I mean even the new talent inner circle membership that's created a completely new community of people, of voiceovers and people who are actors and stuff. To have a community of people, to reach out, to ask what do you think about this, And ask different questions, it's so important. Because I'll say this, when my mom's not coaching me, my agency can tell. Anne: Mm, okay. Aria: They can tell. Lau: That is true. I do wanna say though, based on Anne's question, which I think is a brilliant question and a hard one to answer, is that she echoes back to me what I have taught her and given to her through the years. So I know that it actually happened. So there's a documentation that happened, and she teaches me all sorts of things that I didn't teach her that I need to learn. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So it's now an -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- reciprocal relationship professionally and personally that she authentically knows so much more than I do in so many ways, that I'm growing constantly as a person, as an artist, as a business person, just learning. 'Cause I think it's a myth that we're not, not learning from our kids or not learning from youth. It's really we're learning so, so much from them, we're just maybe not aware of it or we're not acknowledging it. Right? So I'm very aware of it, that there's so much that she and others in that generation as well are giving back and teaching that -- Anne: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: -- going back. So it's measurable, it really is. I would say she's singlehandedly brought the business to a whole other level that it may not have gone to without her. Anne: That's fantastic. So now, Carol. Carol: Yeah. Anne: You have a professional and a personal relationship with Lau. I'm not sure which happened first. So let's talk about your story. What about prior to meeting Lau and prior to working with Lau, how was your support system? Did you have a support system? And then what happened when you connected with Lau and how has that helped you? Carol: Sure. Sure. And it's funny, I was thinking about that before. So I had a very long career in the airline industry. I worked for about 22 years, and then I had left, I took an early retirement. They were offering that -- it was Continental Airlines, they were offering at the time. I was a sandwich. My sisters and I are sandwiched. So there was a little bit of taking care of the parents. My, my kids were younger, the whole thing. And you know what, you just went and had and did it. And I'd always thought about voice over work. And so I did a little bit of that, did some dog care too because it was easy enough. I'm like, Oh good now at least there's that cushion. And then I, I met Lau. We live one town apart and there was a different location of the studio. It's still in the same town. She was offering a Meisner class. Now when I first started voiceover work, now mind you, I don't have an acting background. And so I'd learned all the technical stuff. I had done a demo, but I wish I knew Lau then and learned what I learned then of what I know now. 'Cause it's just leaps and bounds. So I had gone in, done the master, then I really realized how, gosh, there is just a universe of things that I need to know. And so from then on I had joined the studio, and you know, like they say the rest is history. This is what, 14 years now, Lau, 13? Lau: A long time. Carol: The studio was about a year old. The studio was about a year old when I came. And so it's been a long time. And then -- Lau: How old was Aria, Carol, when you came in? Aria and Sage, how old were they? Carol: So you know what, 'cause she's the same age as my daughters Juliana -- they're friends. So I don't know. She was what? Six maybe? Lau: Six. Six. Carol: Something like that. Six, yeah. Lau: Wow. Carol: So that was kind of the same thing too. So my, I was still involved with school too. You know, you were doing everything with that. And my husband's freelance too. He's a strength coach in fitness. So we were both doing freelance things, but it worked out. You make it work. Like you said, you have your family support. You have your expectations. Anne: I was gonna say, so you had good family support. That's fantastic. I just know it makes it dif -- my husband has a corporate job and I left my corporate job to go into my own business. And so that was a different kind of support relationship. But that's fantastic. I mean your husband kind of already knew what it was like to work freelance. And so I think you had a good support system there because if you were going into just from the beginning trying to build up your business, it takes some time. I mean, right, there may not be work right away. And I think that that is the critical moments in those low points, right? When you're, did I get the gig? Am I good enough? I mean all those questions I think we ask ourselves in the beginning of our careers, is this really for me? I know that's what I asked myself all the time. Had, had I not had the support of my husband kind of saying, it's okay, I believe in you. Just keep plugging away at it, I think I might have quit early on. Carol: Yeah. And that's why I said to myself, let me just get something else on the side too. 'Cause I needed to know that I was doing that as well. But it was the opposite. I was the one with the corporate job before and everybody in my family, we were independent. They're like, oh, how could you go in? You know, wasn't nine to five. 'Cause it's the airlines and there's no set hours -- you know, the hours are everywhere, but you just knew that you wanna do it. And it's just, the timing was good with that as well. And so all these years. But one thing that Lau had said too, you know, you're right. You go to the audition, what do I do? There is a huge vacuum of like, oh yeah, you can learn how to do voiceover work. That's such a surface thing. There isn't a lot, except from people like you, people like Lau who say, look, when you get in, well before Covid, when you go to the recording studio and you're asked to do the audition or if you're at home and you're doing this, what is the etiquette? What do I do? What are my expectations? One of the first times -- 'cause I did on camera as well, and I was getting work with on camera more than voiceover. So I didn't do as much. I always used to say, I said, gee, I wonder how I did? I was craving feedback. And I'm like, you know, where's Simon Cowell when you need him ? I was like, if I don't, if I stink, I stink. I didn't have that. And now when I first got it with Lau, I'm kind of like, am, am I in the right business? Because I wasn't used to it, but I was craving it. And then I realized I really needed it. And you may not wanna hear it, but let me tell you something. You grow and you grow and you grow. And so you really need that. And I think there's a little bit of a, of a misstep or a failure out there right now. 'Cause you know, everybody's so internet, you go on YouTube , you know, Yeah. YouTube's great for a lot of things, but you know what? You really need that guide and the trust. The trust that someone's gonna say to you, no, don't submit that audition. Yeah. That is not a good audition. Anne: Lau's not gonna pull any punches. That I know. Carol: Exactly. Anne: That I know about her. I don't know her as long as you do, but I know she's not gonna pull any punches. Carol: . No. Anne: She's gonna be truthful and honest, which I think that's so important, you know, coming from a source within the industry that can give you reliable feedback. And your family members, they might be trying to say it's okay, you know, I thought it was great. That kind of support. That's a different kind of support, right? At least you know they're on your side and they're not saying, well we gotta pay the bills or I thought you were gonna make all this money. Or there's lots of different family support out there. . Carol: But you know Anne, it's funny you said with the support. So my husband would like, sometimes I'd have to have him just hold the camera. I'm like, just record. Or how does this sound? No, it sounds fine. Not my daughter though. She'd be like, what was that? You know? She's the same age as Aria, and they're kind of the same on that too. But thank God. But I wanted to also say it's also finding people that you can trust. See, I may not be having a good gig or I may not be having a whatever, but I'm trusting the people that are giving me the feedback because they're not doing it. They're not making it about them; they're making it about me. And that's the crucial point. Like they're not gonna say, like Lau's not gonna say, Oh you're just starting voiceover. Let me give you five lessons. And you don't do this either, Anne, but how many are out there where it's the snake oil, and it's just like, no, you are not ready. You need to do this. Your breathing's off or whatever the thing is. So the trust is crucial. Lau: I wanna jump in Carol. I wanna say something about Carol ,again talking about her as if she's not here. I love doing that. . So the thing about Carol that made her very unique, first of all, she was very recognizable to me because we had a similar background in the way in which we grew up, and we were at the similar stage of raising children as well. So we had a lot in common. So it went from a client-coach relationship fairly quickly into a friendship, which much of the time doesn't happen for many reasons. And I wanted that. I accepted it, I wanted it, I welcomed it. But what I noticed about her work ethic, which I had not seen in most people I had met, where she has a conservatory style work ethic. And even some in conservatory don't have it. That is, she works like just a horse. Like, and that's part of our background. We both come from a Jewish background, grandparents who had nothing, came from the old country with nothing in their pockets, didn't expect a thing, and worked their tootsies off. So she came in with this work ethic that she did not want anything. She did not deserve anything. And if she didn't earn it, she's not gonna take it. And she was that everything person that would do anything at any time for anyone. And I'm telling you, even to this day, I can count on one hand the people that I know like that. Because most are very self-centered, self-driven and think about themselves first. Carol is very selfless and comes from a high work ethic of let me put someone else before me and let me fix it and get it done. And if I don't know how to do it, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it for you and I don't care. And I'm telling you, that is priceless. It's worth more than any diamond that you could find in your lifetime because that's the person you trust, you love, but also the person who comes straight from the heart, and that's something we're missing in our world. I'll be honest with, we're missing a lot of that in our world. That's self-centered, lack of narcissistic kind of, let me think about my community around me and do as much as I can for them before I do for myself. Anne: Well, I think honestly that just creates the good karma. It just comes back around. And I think that that can be very much a part of your success in your career, in life. This VO BOSS podcast was part of a giving back. And I hope that, you know what I mean, it becomes that sort of a thing that it becomes support. It can become a Family, so to speak, for the community. And it can just be something that can just continue to give back. And I get so much from it myself, from people that I've met that have listened to the podcast, and I've gained some wonderful relationships and some wonderful members of my Family. So. Lau: And that's why we adore you, Anne, and we completely support you in this. We're all working right now together. We're not getting paid. It's a Saturday. It's -- Anne: I know. Lau: Because we love what we do. We love each other. Carol: I'm so excited -- Lau: We love what we do. Yeah. Carol: You were one of the bigger names I first heard about. I'm like, Anne Ganguzza! Anne: Aw you guys. Thank you. Lau: So great. We gotta get Dan in here. I wanna hear from Dan. Anne: Yes. Lau: Dan. Anne: Let's talk to Dan. Dan, tell us your Family story and then how you got involved with Lau. Dan: Well, this is interesting because if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be involved with Lau. When I first started, I contacted you, and you listened to my demo. And the biggest thing that I had was whether or not I was good enough, whether or not I had the right sound, whether or not I had any talent whatsoever. And especially considering, and I know this is taboo in many circles, so slap me around now -- but I produced my own demo. And you were shocked at the quality of that home produced demo. But you gave me so much positive feedback, it encouraged me to submit to a few agents, and Lau was one of the first ones I submitted. Anne: There you go. Wow. Dan: So if it wasn't for you, this is karma coming around as far as trial. Okay? Anne: I did not know this story. Aria: This is literally full circle. Dan: You're welcome. Anne: Wow. Yeah. Dan: And part of that apprehension, you know, I know what you and I had discussed during our consultations that we had, and you were very patient with me. Thank you very much. But it came into a fear on top of that, when you're first starting out, it's a money issue. Am I to the point where I consider anything I do an investment or an expense? And that's a big thing when you're an entrepreneur. Right? Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Dan: I was so petrified that everything was going to be an expense and not an investment, and I wasn't smart enough then. So being with Lau, one of the nice things is she gives me that kick in the ass when I need it. And I do, 'cause I was always the one giving the ass kickings in everything that I did. Everything. I ran construction crews, on the shop floor, airport security, Lau enforcement, I was a training officer to running large scale global projects for a defense contractor. So I was always the alpha male. When you worked for yourself and you're unsure, that alpha male gets diminished. I don't care who you are. Anne: What a good point. Yeah. Dan: It gets diminished. Anne: Yeah. Dan: So it's not necessarily validation, but you need a shoulder and a support system to help you. And sometimes we get stuck on high center, so when you get stuck on high center, you need somebody to push you over that ridge and get you the rest of the way. Right? And that's what it was. And you've talked about it on your podcast too, where diversification is huge, especially during the down times. Like right now I'm going through a downtime now for me. So I took it upon to get marketing coaching. So that's prompted me to open things up. Video and and audio production. That's something else I can offer when VO is lagging behind. So all those things I get encouragement from, from the entire VO community, but especially the ladies here, 'cause I know I can be open and honest with them. And I'm gonna get open and honest feedback. But they expect the same outta me as well. Anybody who's coached with me knows that I'm gonna tell you how it is. I won't sugar coat it, because there's no point -- to me that does more damage. Anne: Sure. I agree. Dan: But Lau also opened that door for me for coaching. She let me sit in, offer opinions on, on several things, and once you get me going, I don't shut up . So I think that was part of it too. But now I coach regularly for her. And I also continue to coach because it should be a cradle to grave learning experience. I should never stop learning until I'm dead. Anne: Yep. Lau: That's right. Dan: But the most rewarding thing about the coaching is watching somebody else flourish in what you have helped them do. Anne: Sure. Dan: And I don't know if you've read lately, but there's a lot of back and forth about some of the coaching posts, and one of the things is you have to be able to have that fulfillment. It can't just be the snake oil salesman where it's just I want, I want, I want. It has to be a total giving experience, completely because we lose money when we coach. Coaching gigs pay a lot less than VO gigs. Anne: Yes. this is true. Dan: So, it has to be a passion. So yeah. But being a part of the Family -- and that's why it was so great when Lau told me about today. I said, Oh, this is a unique opportunity because for me today it has come full circle. It really has in in that aspect of it as far as Family goes. So thank you all. Lau: And Dan is a really gifted coach. I mean like talk about having talent, like talent does play a part in our success. Everyone has different levels of talent. It's incredibly subjective. And it's in the ear or the eye of the beholder. But there's no question he's a very gifted person in this industry, both technically and emotionally. And we love having him with us. And I wanna share one moment, Anne, of the personalization that you and I have spoken about for the past weeks and how important it is in building the relationships with each other. And that is my son, who's a US Marine, is going into law enforcement. And I'm constantly trying to find mentors for him, which isn't always an easy thing. And early on when I first met Dan and I had learned about his background in law enforcement, I said, oh, I'll ask Dan, maybe he could meet with him on Zoom for a few minutes just to give him a little bit of wisdom. He was just right there. He had no problem doing it. He was excited to do it. He was looking forward to that. And you know, this is a teenage kid he doesn't even know. And when he did that, when he was connecting in that way, I said, this is a father, this is a grandfather, this is what we say in Yiddish -- a really good, full-hearted human being. And those are the people that we always wanna be connected with in our universe. Because those are the people, whether you're working or not working, whether you're coaching or not coaching, whether you're making a lot of money or not, they're the people that build you up in your heart and in your spirit. And that goes a long way, much farther than money oftentimes. It goes a long way into why we live this life and why we stay together and connect. And he's just one of those people . Anne: And when I talk about success in your business, we're not just talking monetary success. It's success all around. And I do believe that having that support, having that love, having that openness and overwhelming, what I've heard today is honesty and willing to give -- I think that is one of the most important characteristics we can have, and be for someone to fully support them in this industry, and help them reach success in so many ways. So BOSSes out there, if you are struggling right now, find your Family. We're here at VO BOSS to help, and I'm here to help. I can connect -- I know a few people, I know a few good people that are sitting right here that I can help connect and anything that I can do, and I know you guys, it has just been a wonderful conversation. I thank you so very much for everything that you guys have contributed to today's discussion. I think it's so valuable. I love this Family. I love this Family. All: We love you. We love you. Anne: Thank you. Lau: And I should say one more thing before we go, and that is, just remember everyone you help, everyone you work with, everyone you connect with in these ways, a little tiny piece of you lives inside of them and goes where they go. And so we think, how do we fix the world? How do we help people? How do we do it? Just do it one person at a time. Because that person is gonna hold you inside of them if you're meaningful to them. And boy, will that explode over the universe, and it's one person at a time. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of making an impact, guys, if you would like to contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible, take a look at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. I'd love to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. Here we are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, everyone. Carol: Thanks, everyone. Aria: Thank you, adios. Lau: Thanks, Dan. Carol: Good week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Self-sabotage. We are all guilty of it. You can either fight it or embrace it. If you're not sure what sabotaging behaviors look like, Anne & Lau are here to call you out for everything from minimizing your accomplishments to chronic procrastination. When you're a small business, entrepreneur or creative, your inner voice can often get in the way. The good news is once you recognize the signs of self-sabotage, you can catch yourself & change the outcome. It is easy to feel imposter syndrome. It is easy to push tasks off. But nothing about success comes easy. Having a plan in place to overcome self-sabotage is what will help you beat it, and BOSSES, Anne & Lau have the tips to get every BOSS there. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series, with my guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, hey, how are you today? Lau: I'm fabulous. Ready to rock. Anne: Ah, Lau. I love recording our sessions. The thing about it is, BOSSes out there, of course we don't do this live. A lot of times Lau and I are doing this on Saturday. So we are working beyond the five day work week. And for me, I'm kind of a self-professed workaholic. Now there's sometimes where I feel that's a good thing. And sometimes where maybe it's not such a good thing because I really need to get out and refresh and get my creative spirit back. But I thought it would be a good time to talk about growing your business work ethic and how some people -- I know there's a lot of, a lot of my students are like, I don't know what's going on. I'm not getting any work. So what can I do? It's almost like they sabotage themselves before they've even begun. So that whole self-sabotage thing, Lau, what do you think about that? Lau: It's a big deal. I'm telling you, it's a big deal. It's a culprit. And I see it in every other person I work with that's self-sabo -- we'll call it the SS, the self-sabotage. It's so common. And unfortunately, many a time, the person is innocent. They really don't know they're doing it. They're not aware. Anne: I agree. Lau: They need to have an outside source, help them identify like, what is going wrong? What's going off? What are they doing? And what are they not doing that's getting in the way of really achieving their goals. Anne: Sure. And I'll have to say that a majority of let's say students that come to me and say, I hate marketing, or how do I get work now? And so I'll be like, well, you know, you, your marketing has to be an effort, a concentrated, strategized effort by you. And I find that there's an awful lot of people that don't necessarily either know that they have to put as much effort into it as they might in the beginning to get some traction in this industry, or they hate it so much. And they're like, well, I'm gonna take another classroom. I'm gonna get another demo produced. But in the meantime, the other work that needs to get done to really grow their business kind of sits. And it's almost as if they wait and they're like, well, why isn't work coming to me? I've been taking all these classes. I've got my demos. What do I do? And so I think part of it is an education for here's what it takes to really grow your business. And I mentioned earlier that we are here on a Saturday. We're here on a Saturday. And unfortunately, you know, I work six days a week. The one thing that I love about this business is if I need to take time to do something on a Saturday, then we know we'll record at a different time. But the fact is is that I know what has to go into it in order to get results. And unfortunately, sometimes it's a whole lot more than I want to think that goes into this. Yeah. To be successful. There's a lot more work. Lau: And unfortunately, I think the mindset that you just brought up earlier about I'm in school and I'm training and I'm doing demos. Why aren't I getting work? Well ask yourself this question. Am I going to hire a dentist who's in school to pull my teeth? Am I gonna hire a carpenter who's in school to build my $2 million home? Anne: Right. Right. Lau: Not to say, I don't want a mistake for the listeners you shouldn't be taking classes or training. We're always in professional development. Literally. I'm in professional -- you're in professional. Anne: Yep. Always. Lau: But it does not take the place of the exposure energy that you have to put into the world from a marketing standpoint to let people know who you are, what you do, what you provide, and do that on a consistent basis. It's not either, or it's both simultaneously. Anne: People can't hire you if they don't know you exist, you can't just expect to sit in your studio and wait for work to come to you. When I got into it, in the beginning, I mean, I did not judge the fact that I would have to market as much as I did, and sometimes to really get a good traction and get some consistent clients coming back, it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a week. It may take years, just being real. And I really truly believe that the people that stick it out -- there's so many people that get their demos, and they're beautiful demos, but then they don't realize everything else that's required. Lau: Yeah, what you have to do with it. Anne: Right. And then if somebody will mention to them, you know, you need be concentrated effort in marketing. They'll make maybe a halfhearted attempt, and they don't go far enough to realize how much it really does take. And in that respect, they are sabotaging themselves. They're sabotaging what they invested all that money into to get the coaching, the demos, and then all of a sudden to not get any work like they're expecting, that is a version of self-sabotage. If you are not willing to put in the effort as much effort as you possibly can to make this a success. And I don't wanna make people think that it's not something that just happens overnight. It's not easy. There is somewhat of a work ethic you have to have to put into it. You get what you put into it, right? You get out of it. What you put into it. Lau: I say that all the time, you just took the words outta my mouth. I mean, it really is your investment of your time, your energy, your mindset, your work, everything has to be in it. Another one, another very popular one is the time management piece of really not understanding what your schedule is. Like I said, let's go to a chart, go to a chart, make a chart, make a block chart. Do something that makes it very tangible what I do Monday through Sunday. Like make it very real, like go to your studio, go to your office space, go and make sure you work X amount of time in your day. Because that habit, that consistency, that commitment that you make is gonna help obstacles move out of the way. Because it's very easy to say, but I gotta be with my kids and I gotta go to the birthday party and I have to get this, and I have to -- there's tons of stuff that we can let get in the way and really justify it and say, well, I have to get this done. I have to do this. This has to be a top priority if this is going to be a career for you. Anne: Absolutely. I think there has to be a commitment, a commitment to all pieces of the business. And again, we talk about this so much. It's not just about the performance. It's not just about doing auditions. It's really about the entire, the entire business. And even if -- I feel like I've become a queen of outsourcing only because I keep wanting to grow my business, and I feel like I cannot grow my business until I can offload some of the tasks that I have to do on a day to day basis to other people. And right now, literally, I mean, I'm not bragging about that, but I have nine people. I have nine people that specialize in what they do, helping me with my business. And I outsource that so that I can do all the things that I wanna do in my business and grow. If I do not hire these people, I will not be able to grow because I physically don't have more of myself to give. So thankfully for this podcast, just as an example, the time that I spend with you in here in our booth recording, the episode is what I put into that. Everything else gets outsourced. I have an editor who edits the episodes afterwards. I have someone who transcribes it. I have two people that do social media. I have a person who works on video clips. So there's literally so many people that are involved in this. I would not be able to put this together or be successful if I did not put the effort into it. And I feel like there's so many people that say, well, I started a podcast, but I don't really have any listeners. So how do I grow the podcast. Again, it's one of those things where you sit down and you say, okay, this is what it's going to take to be successful. And you also have to not sabotage it by understanding that yes, there are these many pieces and components that it will take to be successful. You can't just exist on being a great voice actor. There has to be the other parts of the business that come into play. And so in terms of sabotaging, there's also, I'm gonna say, let's talk about people who are new to the industry and then are afraid to charge a fair amount for their services. Right? And they're like, well, I don't have the experience. So therefore I'll accept this job for $50. Or I'm only gonna charge $50 because I'm new. Let's talk about that. That is a form of self-sabotage. Lau: Yes. And you know what? I just wanna recap what you just said, which was brilliant that the negating of delegating, like the importance of delegating and being unafraid to delegate and being unafraid to pay for that delegation in saying that's an investment -- I'm not spending money. I'm investing in my business and I can't do it all. Like, yeah, we wanna be superheroes. And to some degree we are, but there's only so much time in the day we have to function and then to grow our businesses. So having that realization that if I wanna grow to the next level, I do need to delegate. I do need to have help. And I do -- Anne: I need help. Lau: I do need to pay for it. Anne: I need help! Lau: I need to pay for it. Anne: Oh my God. Such a wonderful point that you brought up, and I'm gonna say myself even in the beginning, I'm a control freak. Is that a surprise? No. Lau: No. And I'm a control freak. Anne: I'm a control freak. Lau: Surprise. Anne: You don't know what it took for me to hire somebody. Lau: Anne, you were in the syndrome that we were all in that's just like, oh, I'll just do it myself. Anne: Yes, Lau: No, I'll just do it myself. I'll do -- Anne: You want it right -- Lau: -- I'll do it myself. Anne: Yeah. If you want it done right, you do it yourself. Well, guess what? That is a form of self-sabotage as well. Right? Not being able to let go of control and outsource those things. Right? Lau: Oo I love that, I love that. Anne: Right? So that was a form of sabotage that I, myself early on in my career, when I was like, no, I can do it. I can make my own webpage. I can do this. It was, I used to work in technology. I can do it. And honestly, it was not serving me to be the control freak. And it took a lot. And I love the fact that you brought up the money. Money is a huge self-sabotage for a lot of people. Number one, not charging enough or not feeling that you're worthy of charging what somebody who's been in the industry for, you know, 15 years -- you are worthy of that. You've made an investment in your coaching and your demos. People want to pay you for your voice. You are worthy of what I charge, 'cause I've been in the business for 15 years. So you're worthy to charge what I charge. And also feeling worthy to make an investment and spend the money, that really is a form of self-sabotage as well, that whole money thing. Right? Oh, I didn't wanna invest. I don't have the money. Right?Well, so many people, I don't have the finances. What can I do to get a professional demo? I don't have the money. Well, okay. Here's what you gotta do. You've gotta strategize. Sit back, take a look at it. Understand that you're gonna have to invest in your coaching, in your demos in your business for you to get something out of your business. You're gonna have to invest. And that is, if you do not admit that or put into action, something that will maybe put savings away. Right? So that you can afford to get a professionally produced demo. Lau: Beautiful. Beautiful. Anne: No, I'm gonna do it myself. And again, that is a form of sabotage. I've just like rambled on. Lau -- Lau: I love it. This is like, listen, honey, this is therapy for both of us because the truth is we practice what we preach and we've experienced everything we talk about. Anne: Yeah. It's true. Lau: I'm not that godlike. I am a human being and I've experienced all of what Anne is talking about here. And that's how we learn. Okay. But if we don't learn, if we don't take the lesson -- as one of my business advisors to me said Lau, if you don't stop your resistance, I can't help you get to that place you wanna go. Anne: Oh yeah. Lau: And that's the humility. I don't know if you call it therapy or just revelation, whatever you call that, of saying, I'm not a god, I'm not a deity. I'm not, not anything other than a person in the world who is learning and working hard and reaching higher levels. But that doesn't mean that I am not resisting getting to the next level of things, whether it's -- oh, let's talk about fear. How about fear? Anne: Oh my God. Fear is so here. Fear of success too. I don't mean to say fear of being rejected. Fear of not being good enough, but fear of success. Lau: Fear, fear of failure. Anne: And fear of failure. All of that is a form of self-sabotage. And gosh, I think you just go on all day, but I know for me, I've always been that person. I'm like, I'm just gonna work, work, work, work. I mean, I've always had that kind of a, a work ethic. You know, if I work hard enough, it will come. And that's just my personality. Lau: Mine too. Anne: But some of that was also self-sabotage. If I didn't, I said, well, I could just do my own website or I can just, then all of a sudden it became like, well, I'm the only one that can do it right. And so again, that was, I want it done this way. And so nobody else will be able to do it, and giving up that control, which was a big self-sabotage for me. Lau: Big. Anne: Huge. Lau: It's a humility factor too because we all have to have a sense of pride and ego in what we do just to pull us through the really tough moments where we feel or perceive we're getting knocked down, or it's not that easy, or we're not making -- we have to have that sense of humility that says that's okay. That's part of your process. You're not gonna be above that. That's something you have to go through and you have to experience. And I get another one for you. How about procrastination? Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. Lau: I promise I'll get to it tomorrow. I will. I absolutely will. Yeah. Then I don't. Anne: And that is a form of self-sabotage. I'll tell you what. I am not immune to procrastination myself. Lau: No one is. Anne: In certain parts of my business, yeah, I'll procrastinate. Let's talk about taxes. If you wanna talk about procrastination, right? Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: I know for a fact that I would procrastinate until the very last minute. And then it became like, this stress-induced hell for my business because I, I hadn't experienced it. You know, when you're first running your own business, you have never done your taxes. You've never -- somebody else did that. You know? And so it was like, oh my God, I have a business now. Now what do I need to learn? And it just became overwhelming. So that also, the fact that it was overwhelming, it was scary, the fear, right, of not knowing what to do or how to do it. So then I procrastinated, which then was also sabotaging, right, my success. And then at the end I just was a, a stress ball of anxiety. And yeah. So I would never say to you BOSSes that, oh, I knew it all coming out of the gate. God no. I learn, I'm scared every single day I learn. I try not to sabotage myself by being scared and we fail a little bit. We learn, we try to just get up, move that, bump it up higher. Right? And just keep growing. Lau: Yep. How about this one, Anne? How about sitting with all the stress, the fear, the anxiety, the whatever, and not knowing how or not allowing yourself to release that? So whether that's going into play mode, whether that's actually just getting things done, whether that's getting your latte, whatever that is, establishing daily and weekly what I need to do to be in my mindset of success. And if I don't do it, then I'm sabotaging myself. Anne: Well, yeah. And that sabotage can take many forms, by the way. I'm just gonna say. Physical illness is one of them. If you're gonna sit there as like a stress ball and not relieve it or not try to do something right to rectify that or whatever that is, self-care, meditation, exercise, eating healthy, taking a few hours off, again, that stress can be sabotaging as well. So many things. Lau: It's like endless, right? Like we could go on forever, unfortunately in this category. It's so vast how much we -- and then of course you had mentioned it earlier that imposter syndrome, that feeling, that deep, deep, deep feeling. A lot of women suffer from this just in general of like, I really don't know if I'm worth everything that I'm doing in my life. And you know, Harvard did a lot of studies on that through the years 'cause Joan Rivers, the comedian, was the first one to uncover that publicly and found that ironically the people through the years who have suffered mostly from imposter syndrome being women who are high achievers. Anne: Oh how interesting. Yeah. That would make a whole lot of sense. Yeah. Imposter syndrome. I still get it. Do you know what I mean? I admit it, it still happens once in a while. I find that I try to just work it off. . Work off the imposter syndrome. Lau: Take a run. Anne: And again, if I'm not scared, right, I don't think I'm growing. It's just one of those things. Right? And yeah. Am I good enough? You know, can I do I think a lot of it, it's not so much, am I good enough at this point? But it's a different question I ask, is it okay? Am I ready to make this next move? Like, am I at the point where I should be making this next move? I think I question like, okay, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna grow even bigger? Right? That's my question every day. How do I grow even bigger? Is there a point where I'll be satisfied ever? And I don't think I ever will be. And maybe that's, maybe that's a form of it or not or -- Lau: Isn't that okay though? Like, isn't that a good driving force? Anne: Well, that's what I like to think. Lau: What are -- Anne: -- really goes through. Lau: Yeah. Like what keeps you going? What keeps you waking up every morning and doing what you do. You have to have a sense of that. You have to have some sense of doing that and saying, oh, I need more. I wanna build more. I wanna envision more. I wanna concoct more ideas. I think that, I think there's a fine line between a visionary, a pioneer, and someone who's like insane. Someone who just drives themselves crazy to the point where they break down and they can't function. I think that there's a very fine line that we have to find, you know, between those two and that fear factor, which can get in our way is also a driving factor too in what you're doing in your level of success as well. And how about this one? I got one more for you. Anne: Okay. Lau: How about ignoring, and sometimes intentionally ignoring, your celebrations, like really saying I'm not gonna celebrate anything. it's not necessary. It's not that good. I'm gonna move on to the next thing, and really ignoring your credits, your credentials, your accolades, as they happen? Your people that are -- Anne: That's a great one. Lau: -- being successful? Yeah. And so I'm really guilty of that. I'm like, oh, that's great. I love that. Okay. So what's next? And I'll have people stop me and go, you need to stop doing that because a lot of what you do, Lau, is for that moment and you're just passing it over. Anne: Right, right, right. Don't want to acknowledge -- Lau: -- pass it over. Anne: Right. Lau: And celebrate it, really actively celebrate it. You can't celebrate every single thing 'cause as a success, you've got a lot of things going on. Anne: Sure. Lau: But take a moment every day where you stop and you breathe, you take 10 or 15 minutes. You go -- Anne: I love it. Lau: Oh my gosh. That person that I directly worked with landed this gig. And I am just loving this moment. Anne: So here's my Panda planner. . And my Panda planner is a place, it's this hard copy, is a place where I can write down. I love that. You said that I can write down accomplishments and I got this beautiful one, the BOSS lady right here in my studio. Right? Lau: That's gorgeous actually on -- that looks beautiful. That's from your east coast sister. Anne: Thank you. Thank you, Lau. This beautiful, beautiful piece is from Lau. And I have a journal where I can write down my accomplishments. Because I remember I did a study like way back when I first got into the voiceover industry, and I, well, I was a scrapbooker. Okay. And as a scrapbooker I said, why don't I document my year of VO? And so I had pictures of like meetups I had been to and all of that stuff. And, and I had documented all of the jobs that I auditioned for and then the ones that I had booked, and I made a little scrapbook out of it. But in that scrapbook also was accomplishments. And I wrote the accomplishments down as they happened throughout the year. I realized that once I started writing them down, I was like, wow, I have come so far. And it was a wonderful benchmark, and it was a wonderful, like motivator for me to say, wow, I have really grown. And I have really improved and I'm proud of myself. And it motivated me to want to grow even more. So -- Lau: What a powerhouse, so smart. Anne: -- huge, huge fan of writing, writing down those accomplishments and reading them, writing them down to cement them and then read them. So. I love it. Lau: And how about speaking them? Anne: Yes. Lau: We're always afraid of like boasting and being too full of ourselves and being rude. But to your people that you have real relationships with, they wanna know what are you celebrating. What did you do? You're working so hard. They wanna know what you've accomplished. And to say, you know, three of my people today, and they got awards, and they got national gigs and they -- isn't that cool? I'm so excited for them. There's no shame in that game. I think we need to do that. We need to take the time to do that, to reward them, but also to reward ourselves -- Anne: Yeah. Lau: -- as well. Anne: And we need to acknowledge, I think acknowledge people celebrating their victories because I really believe that we can celebrate each other and really drive inspiration, motivation for all of us to do better. And again, there is a crowd out there that feels that that's not necessarily like awards. I mean, we could have a whole 'nother podcast on awards. Are awards necessary? And you know what? I tend to really love that they can help to validate us from somebody outside of ourselves. Because again, we can sabotage ourselves like the whole imposter syndrome, which is that fear that you're not good enough. It can really inhibit you from doing more from even continuing in the industry. And I feel that awards can be really good if you can look at them in the fact that we're celebrating other people's victories. We can even celebrate our own victories. And it's a way for validation outside of ourselves and outside of our friends, who I know people who will be like, I know, but you're just saying that because we're friends, and you really need that. You need that external validation to make you feel good. Again, like in the corporate world, we just wanna be loved. That's what I tell everybody, I just wanted to be loved when I worked in the corporate world. I wanted to be acknowledged. I wanted to be thanked for the work that I did and told that I did a good job. Lau: Yeah. I think since we're little kids, we want recognition. We want, you know, an award, a sticker, a rank or recognition, a pat on the back. Like as human beings -- Anne: I worked for those stickers in school. You know? Lau: I did too. Anne: Those like stars and the smileys. Lau: Yes. On the head. Remember they used to put it right on your forehead, the little goals? Remember that? Anne: I used to get -- Lau: They used to put it right on your head. Oh, oh my God. Anne: Award papers. I loved it. I loved it. I don't know. They don't do that. Lau: Oh my God. Anne: Is there paper anymore in schools? I don't. Lau: I don't know. I don't know. That's terrifying. I go to Apple. They go, what's paper? I don't know. Go on your -- did we talk about money at all? I honestly can't remember. Did we bring up the money factor? Anne: Well, I think we talked about the worth factor. Like, are you charging what you're worth? Lau: Okay. I got another angle. There's another angle of that. The other angle is, are you spending and investing what you need? Anne: Yes, the investment. Absolutely. Lau: Because I always find if it's not ignorance or just the fact that you're not educated, and that's fine, that's okay. We all have to educate, but once you're educated, and you wanna be cheap and not spend dime on your career and what you're doing, I just think of that as self-sabotage. Because there is no career that I can think of that you're not investing a lot of money in to get the future out of that, to get the return out of that. So. Anne: And that's not just investment in coaching, it's in, in all aspects of your business. And of course I would say yes, investing in your demos and in your coaching, I'm all for that, 'cause I'm coach. Right? And I produce demos, but also investing in those things like me, the queen of outsourcing, like you can really give up that control and don't be afraid to invest. And I, I will say, I said this multiple times, I put money away specifically into my business savings account. I have a business credit card. I have a business banking account, and I have a business savings account. So I was able to put money a little bit away each week or whatever it was, I put money away. And I finally got to the point where I had a substantial amount in savings. And boy did that help me to really grow. The fact that I didn't have the money in savings or I didn't concentrate on putting money in save -- doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be a ton of money. Just put a little bit of money away each day, each week, whatever it is. When you get to that little nest egg, that makes you feel secure and confident, it's gonna be an amazing thing because it's gonna allow you to invest in your business, to help you to grow so that you can spend the time getting those customers, making more money, growing your business. Lau: And a lot of people, Anne, they really don't realize once they do realize if they start to reach a level where they realize, oh wow, I have to spend money on this. And then I have to spend money on that. And they refuse to. They're resistant to do that. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: That's the sabotage because the truth is -- Anne: I don't have the money or I can do it myself. And -- Lau: That's an investment that they have to have the belief system that that will come back to them. They have to have that leap of faith. That's where a little bit of your magic, your imagination has to be in there. You know what I mean? Like... Anne: Yes, thank you. Lau: I had someone say to me yesterday, like literally Lau, I need to know, I need you to tell me, when will it come back? When will it happen? I said, I can't tell you. I can't tell you when you'll meet the man of your dreams. I can't tell you if your kid is gonna love you or hate you. And I can't tell you if your car is gonna start this morning. Why would I be able to tell you when that's gonna come back to you? You have to take a leap of faith. Anne: Leap of faith. What a wonderful note to kind of end this podcast. Because I think when it comes down to that, like really what else do you have? Right? If you're based on fear and you're not feeling good enough for all of this self-sabotaging, you're not growing your business, take a leap of faith. My mother said to me once -- you know, I remember when I was, I had moved out of the house and was on my own living in a different state. And I was renting my first apartment and all on my own. And I said to my mom, I don't know, I've been working the budget and what if I don't have enough money? Or what if I, I, I don't know if I can do this. And she said, you know, honey, sometimes it all just works out. Just have a little bit of faith. And I took that to heart. It was, she said it so long ago. It was so simple. It's like something that everybody seems to say, have a little bit of faith, but yeah. Guys, BOSSes have a little bit of faith. I think that honestly, when you've lost all your other avenues of being brave, take a leap of faith and it will work out, but take a smart leap of faith, but definitely have to have that leap of faith. Lau: Yeah, yeah. You definitely do. And you have to just know the only thing that's constant is change, and you have to welcome change and like literally money change, but also change in the universe. And if you can welcome both in, you're gonna move that self sabotaging tactic out. You're you're just gonna be by the laws of attraction. You're gonna be much more successful. Anne: How wonderful. Well, thank you, Lau, as always for you had another amazing discussion. Lau: Yay. Anne: BOSSes, you guys, as individuals, you know, sometimes we don't know if we can make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference. Also big shout-out to ipDTL. You too can network and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

It's the holidays! The time of year when we all get to relax, catch up on our tasks, and spend time with friends and family. But what if you've been so busy working that you didn't even realize it was the holidays? Or what if you're stuck in the booth and can't take a break? If you're going to take time for the holidays, be sure to book out with agents & clients. This way you don't have to worry about missing out on new business opportunities. For all the workaholics out there, the holidays can be a peaceful time to catch up on work. And don't be afraid to take time away! You'll come back from this little vacation refreshed & ready to tackle anything the new year brings. And don't forget that this is a great time for planting seeds for 2023. Send out thank-you cards, small gifts, and mementos to those who have helped make 2022 amazing for you! Still feel like the holidays are a stressful time filled with family obligations, work commitments, and personal commitments that all need to be balanced? Don't worry: we've got some tips for how to BOSS through the season… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my very, very special guest, cohost Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne. Good to see ya. Anne: Here we are for our business superpower series, which is one of my favorite series, The Business Superpowers. And speaking of business superpowers, the holiday season is upon us and there's a lot of things that go on during the holidays. And so I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about how we can still be the biggest, best BOSSes throughout the holiday season because there are changes that happen. Sometimes things slow down, and we get nervous. Sometimes we have a lot of work and it's tough when you're trying to celebrate the holidays with your family. So let's talk about how we can have BOSSness for the holidays. Lau: I love BOSSness through the holidays, and everyone has their own ebb and flow. Some people, as you said, get super busy. They can't even think straight, and others are dead in the water and they don't know where the work is and everything in between. I do think one of the things you just mentioned, Anne, which is so important, is the celebration factor. So whether it's within the work itself that you're celebrating -- it could be the copy itself is holiday copy. It could be your clients that maybe your handpicking particular clients that you wanna send gifts of gratitude to -- whatever the case may be, you are celebrating. There's a celebratory tone and feel and mood. So you wanna make sure that you balance that to some degree, that you not only have time to celebrate with yourself and your family, but you also celebrate that you have a business, you're running a business. And how do you pay attention to all the many celebrations that are happening around you? Right? Anne: That's an excellent point. I think that it almost comes to like, what's the balance, right? That family, friends, holiday balance with work. If you're crazy busy doing a bunch of work -- now, the one thing that's good about the holidays is I find advertising agencies like to, to get ahead. Right? So, I mean, I'm already like towards the end of the summer starting to record things for the holidays, and so it starts early. Kinda like when they put the Christmas or the holiday, Hanukkah stuff out when it's like August or September in the stores. Lau: Yeah. Retail is like retail two, three seasons ahead. Anne: They are way ahead. So I think that with some planning, right, with strategic planning, BOSSes can really, I think, continue to do wonderful things throughout the holiday season and get the opportunity to spend a good amount of time with their friends and family. I mean, I like to book myself out between, for me, it's Christmas and New Year's. I like, I book myself out and I, I find that to be a relatively safe time for what I end up doing in my genres of work that I typically work in. Usually works well for me. What about you, Lau? Lau: Actually, it's so funny you say that. I don't know if I've ever really formally booked myself out. I feel like I've always, and this is my choice, I have a lot of colleagues that don't do this at all. I'm always kind of available for clients. Partly because, and I'll be honest with you, Anne, I'm like a workaholic. Okay, let me just get that out there right now. So I, I love what I do and I'm sort of addicted to it, and I always do it, you know, so it's like -- Anne: I'm right there with you. Lau: Yeah. I mean arguably so yes, a lot of folks are taking their vacations and booking out and doing all of that, but I always find there's work to do. There's catch-up work, there's my planning for the new year, what I wanna get done in quarter one, quarter two. So always find tons of stuff that I wanna be working on. And I have a different mindset during the holiday season. It actually for me isn't as stressful as when we're outside of holiday season. Because I know everyone's off and running and doing their thing. I get to catch up. So that's really exciting for me. But yeah, to steal some time and make sure that you're relaxing and getting enough rest and taking care of yourself and exercising, you know, all of that is great during the holiday season. Anne: I love that. And I identify, I identify with you, and I don't know if this is something to be proud of, but I mean I am a workaholic and I have been for a long time. And I think one of the reasons why I make it a pact with myself to try and book out as much as possible -- right, it's not that I won't read my email right during those days. However, I try to make sure that I'm not doing any necessary recordings for my clients, but my brain, my brain is never off, right? So there are times though, because I work so hard during the year that when I decide to say I'm off, thankfully I can shut the majority of that off. The good thing about me is that I not only work hard, but I play hard. And so when I decide that I'm going to take that time for reflection and refreshing my energy, I make it work for me because I know that after I take that break, I'm going to be better for it. Lau: Yes, I agree. I think just from the health and wellbeing of your mindset, you do need to have downtime that's scheduled in. Holidays are easy because most people are taking some sort of downtime. So you almost get permission to do it because so many people are doing it as well. I also find too, it's a great time for me to think about how I wanna connect, reconnect, and confirm and thank all the folks that I've worked with throughout the year. So it's a time where I'm sending out maybe gifts or letters or emails or e-cards or whatever it is, saying this has been amazing, love the experience. Let's do this next quarter. So I'm planting seeds. I find I'm planting seeds with people that I've either worked with or haven't worked with of what I'd like to do for next year. And they may not get to it for a month. They may not get to it right away, but it's there. It's like sitting there, it's like a little seed that I know is gonna sprout in a couple months. Anne: Mm-Hmm. For me, yeah, people would always say, well what do you send out gifts? What do you do for your clients over the holidays? And I like to send out e-cards, uh, notes, especially wishing a new year of happiness and prosperity and health and that kind of thing so it doesn't land during the holidays, which I think is a very busy part of the holidays for a lot of my clients. They're probably getting a lot of notes, a lot of gifts. And so I always like to say, well, let me stand out a little bit and I'll send something for the new year. And that way it'll come at a time that maybe they'll be able to spend more time and and see it and not be inundated with other emails, cards, gifts, that sort of thing. So I like the whole celebrate the new year, looking forward to working with you again in the new year, and that sort of a thing. So for me, my attention towards my clients is from a new year perspective and a happy holidays because that would encompass all of the holidays, we hope, that people celebrate 'cause there's just so many of them. Lau: So true. And actually we would think you and I would think 'cause we're from that timeframe where everyone would get gifts, the casting, the agents, whatever -- but you know what I've noticed in the last five or 10 years, Anne, many of them don't get as many as we think. And I know this because they'll write back to me, they'll say, oh my goodness, that was so thoughtful of you. That was incredible. If I send, let's say I send an edible arrangement. And they say, our office is gonna love this, Lau. It's just so thoughtful. You know, we don't see many of these, you know, whatever. Anne: Not like it used to be. Lau: Not like it used to be. No. It's very different now. You know? Anne: And in the corporate world too. I mean it used to be very, very different. And I think the pandemic might have had a lot to do with that as well and the economy. And so I think for me it turned into what can I do that's more meaningful? Right? I think before it used to be like, let's send a gift, let's send this and then what would you send? And is it a personal gift? Does it showcase thought or is it just -- for me, I really try to think about the relationship that I have with my clients and make it something special, something personal. And again, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. I think that even just a personalized note, or a lot of times I'm a decent baker. Lau: Ooh. Anne: I can bake. I know everybody knows Jerry can cook, but I can bake. And I did when we were first dating, by the way, I did bake him something to impress him, and little did I know at that time he was like a gourmet chef. But I was like, here, I need you a carrot cake muffin for Valentine's Day. I mean carrot cake muffins in a basket. And, and I was like, ooh. I think 'cause it's a really great recipe. And little did I know that he's like a gourmet chef, but I'm like, here have a muffin that I baked. Lau: Oh my God. So you are actually like Kristin Wiig in Bridesmaids, remember that? Where she baked her boyfriend that carrot cake, and it was in the shape of a carrot and then the raccoon ate it? Remember that? Anne: I did, I, I baked a carrot cake. Lau: I was gonna ask you what your favorite gifts are. Like what's your favorite gift that you've either received or that you've sent out? Any come to mind? Anne: So for me it's handmade. It's gotta be handmade because so much of my life with my husband is revolved around his gourmet foodiness. There's lots of things, like every year we give out handmade this or that. And like last year it was handmade salad dressing. And that's really cool. I mean, I buy the bottle, I designed the label. My husband, we make Sicilian lemon olive of oil and that kind of thing, dressing. And we give that out. And that's something that I don't hesitate sending to my clients and that it's handmade, because if they know me at all, which I try to make sure that they do, they know that I come from that background, and that my husband is pretty much a, a gourmet anything. So I find that that makes a really nice gift. And it's something that is not gonna cost a ton for me. And I do, I have to say, I do love Amazon gift certificates. Lau: Oh, totally. Anne: Because yeah, that just takes care of everything for let's say, I have a lot of people that I hire, my assistants, and I feel like I wanna give them something as a gift and not something that's just, of course money is always appreciated, right, a bonus, that kind of thing? So I do that. Or if they do something that's special, and this is at any time, I might give them a gift certificate to Amazon. Lau: That's a good thing. Anne: That really tends to be my favorite thing or anything that's special. So for example, another one of my clients who I share love of animals, you know, my cats or my dogs -- it will be a gift for their cat and it's so funny -- or a gift for their dog because they almost appreciate it more, right, because it shows like a deeper connection. Lau: Yes. Anne: If I get a gift for their dog. Like wouldn't it be cute to get matching sweaters, like, oh, dog sweater and sweater? But again, it has to be specific to the client. What about you? I'm excited to hear your, your favorites. Lau: Yeah. Well, I mean there's standard stuff that whether you know this or not know this -- I mean, most people would know about Edible Arrangements. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I really like Sherry's Berries too. So if you don't know about Sherry's Berries, that's really fun. Like hand dipped berries and fruit. That's awesome stuff. Anne: Yep. Lau: But we've done some interesting things in the past. I mean, my daughter is a visual artist, so she could draw like nobody's business. Anne: Oh, that's nice. Lau: Through the years, there were times -- I didn't wanna impose on her because it can take time to create art -- but there were times where we would have a, a special relationship with a casting or an agent, what have you, she would either draw them or she would draw something in the industry and send it to them. And that was like an incredible gift. Anne: Sure. Lau: You can also do promotional items that represent you or your company. And then give it a little personal twist. Like for instance, you know, we have some books that we published and then we'll, you know, add some photos to it or sign them or what have you. So you've got your promotional in there, and then you've got the personalized twist, and you've got a little note in there, a little gift card in there, a little something in there. Those have been some of my favorites. Another regular thing that I used to do with in studio events, when I hold events, I would do gifts, like literal gifts, not as much for the men. If I did anything for the men, it would be a gift card. But for women, I would literally get them jewelry. And I almost never went wrong with jewelry. Almost never. They loved it. And you don't have to spend a lot of money on it either. Like you can get beautiful jewelry, and sometimes they would be thoughtful for what that person is. Like for instance, if I knew their birthdate or if I knew something about what they were celebrating, I would take the color of the stone or I would take their name or something like that and I would put it right into the jewelry. Right into the gift. They love that. They love that stuff. Anne: Personalization. Lau: Yeah, personalization. Anne: Absolutely. And I was actually noticing your earrings earlier, and I was like, I really like those earrings . See, you can't go wrong with jewelry, I don't think for a lot of women, but that's me, of course. But yeah, I think that however you can personalize, it really makes just like any gift that you give to someone, right? However you can personalize it makes it really nice. And I also think in terms of promotional gifts, I try not to do just a promotional gift. You know what I mean? Even if I'm sending a card. Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: It's not gonna be like -- I'll say, I'm grateful, thank you so much. I loved working with you this year. But it's not gonna be all about like a big branded gift. It's really just gonna be thanks so much. And even if I got them a present for their dog, I'm not gonna brand it. Lau: Right. Anne: Because I think that it's similar to like the VO BOSS podcast where I'm always telling people, it doesn't have to be -- like, for me it is about voiceover. But my primary purpose with this podcast was to, I wanted to educate. I wanted to give back, right? And if people get value from it, then it's a gift, right? It's a gift that I wanna give from me to the community. And I feel like that's the way it should be for your gifts, really. And that's why it doesn't have to be like, oh, it's all about my voiceover business, when you're trying to connect with a client and give them a gift for the holidays. It really, I know just the simple fact that you're showing a personalized, something that's deeper than just a, oh, here, I did this job for you and you paid me for it -- I think if you show thoughtfulness behind that, you do not have to brand that thoughtfulness. Lau: Not at all. Anne: In order to be effective at all. Lau: No, because remember, you're a person first. You're a human being first. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: And it doesn't always have to be around the business. Anne: And I think it's more memorable, to be honest with you. Right? It's gonna be more memorable if I get somebody a present for their cat than a branded pen. And I could throw that branded pen with the the cat gift as well. Lau: That would be funny. Anne: It wouldn't be be all about the branded gift, because I know before it used to be like, oh, what should I get? I'm gonna brand it with my logo. I don't think it's about that anymore. I mean, it used to be a thing where people, that's what they did. But I think these days, it's gotta be more meaningful. And I kinda like that trend. I really like that trend. I think the last few years that have been a little tough on us as a society, I'm hoping that things get back to more meaningful, simpler, thoughtful gifts for celebrating. Lau: Yeah. I think the days of extreme swag are kind of gone where you gotta have a t-shirt, you gotta have a pen, you gotta have a -- Anne: Right. Lau: I think that's passé now. But you know, I have to tell you one time -- Anne: I do like a pen. I do like a good pen though. Lau: I like a good pen and I like a good pencil. I actually have a bunch of branded pencils, but I have a talent who's in MCVO and he's a working guy and he's wonderful. One year around Christmas time, he sent me his cup, his travel cup. And it had his business on it. Right? So it was clearly promotional. Right? But the thing when I, I looked at it, and it was so heavy and so well made and so intense, like the metal was so thick. Yes. And it came from one of the nicer stores in New York City. Right? I was like so impressed by that, that he would send that to me. I'm sure he is sending out a bunch of those to other people as well. I was like, my God, he probably spent 25, $30 on this cup. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So I'm not telling people to do that. You don't need to do that. I'm just saying, it took me aback that he valued our relationship so much. Anne: Right, to give you one of those. Yes. Lau: And at that time, I hadn't even booked him. I hadn't booked him on anything. It was just he was valuing and faithful about, you know, what was to come and excited about the future and this and that, and I thought gee, that was a lot to invest in a gift for someone, you know, who's new. I never forgot it. . Anne: I'm a big proponent about swag in not making it cheap swag. I think that no swag is better than cheap swag that is not useful. And so for me, like I say, I like a good pen right. Now, recently I had, and I don't have one in here to showcase, but I recently got, you know, the multicolor pens that have the green, the blue, the black -- Lau: Oh yeah, I love those. Anne: -- and the red? Okay. Yeah. So I just got pens, multicolor pens with Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions on it. So I send it to everybody that orders from me, that orders like my vocal spray. And I'll take it to every conference. And more than likely when I send out gifts, they're gonna get a pen just because they're fun. I mean, who doesn't love writing with different colors? Lau: Right, I'm with you. Anne: That kind of thing. But I think if you make a substantial investment, and I'm a big one about cups too, right? This was actually, so this Miir cup, when my husband went to a conference, he got one that was white and it was from one of the companies, and it was made from Miir. And we love that cup so much that I went and bought another one because it was such a good quality cup, like you said. So I feel like if you're going to create swag, make sure it's a good quality swag. And I always like to really think about, is it going to be useful? Lau: Yes. Anne: Not just trendy, but is it going to be useful for the person that you're going to give it to? Otherwise, I don't know if it's worth the investment. Lau: That's exactly it, Anne, and I actually thought I thought of one more that I used to love and give out. I don't know where they are these days, but I'm sure you can find them. I love these. They were the pens, thick pens that light up. And I love them because I was a director for many years. And so I would be in a dark room, a dark theater or a dark studio, and I just love the fact that I could write and light it up. Anne: Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau: Oh my goodness. That was like, I gave that out for years. I gave those pens out for years. So things that are utilitarian and very useful I think are so important if you can find them. Anne: So yeah, I think BOSSes, when it comes to gift giving and the holidays, I think the more thoughtful, right, the more personal, the better. Obviously you don't have to spend a ton of money, but if you're gonna make it swag, I say make an investment into decent swag. And then also let's talk about, are you busy? Are you not busy during the holidays? Should BOSSes worry if they're not busy during the holidays, Lau? Lau: No. No, not at all. I would never worry about that. I always say, you know, if you work in advertising agencies, if you work with talent agencies, if you work in casting, you would know this, that there are really down times. There are dead times, there are down times. You know, it's like a ghost town. And you have to just accept that. That's true in every single business, in every industry. You're just not gonna be making money every day. You're not gonna be making profit every day. You're not gonna be booking in closing every day. You just have to accept that. That was hard on me, you and I as addicted people to our work, it was really hard to be like, is something wrong? I went four days and I haven't booked anything. Oh yeah, because there's an ebb and flow. And each quarter is different and every year is different. So you just have to pay attention to that. Anne: That little piece of valuable, like that was just so valuable, Lau, that you said that as well. I say that a lot to my students and just, there is an ebb and flow. And as freelancers, this is something that is probably one of the hardest things to get used to when you come from, let's say, a corporate background and you're used to getting that paycheck on a consistent basis. Now all of a sudden there could be days that go by when you don't have a job. And it's okay, even for the veterans in this industry, right? Even for those people that are posting on social media where they booked 20 jobs this week, I want you guys to know that it's , it's an ebb and a flow. And so the times that you might see somebody post that they got a ton of jobs that week, well, maybe the following week, they aren't getting as many jobs. I don't know one person, unless you're on a roster or you're on a consistent basis or contract with someone that gets work every single day, it's very tough being that consistent, unless maybe you're doing promos and you know, you're under contract for doing -- you're on a roster, you're doing these specific jobs on a daily basis, but getting new jobs every single day, mm, I don't know anybody. . Lau: No, it's not a realistic. No, no, no. Anne: It's not realistic. Lau: You just have to pay attention to your, your stats. You just have to pay attention to those long ways. I mean, that's not to say you may not be working every day. Anne: Exactly. Lau: You may be working with clients every day catching up, do this, adding on, upselling, whatever you're doing. But when you're talking about closing or booking -- Anne: Yeah, right, booking, that's a different job every single -- Yeah. Yeah. That's just, yeah. And during the holidays is no exception really I would say a lot of times. I think it becomes even more unpredictable during the holidays, unless you're very used to doing particular jobs for the holidays and then in between the holidays. So yeah. BOSSes, it's okay. I think that we should all take the time to enjoy your holidays with your families and friends. On that downtime, if you want to work, well, maybe just take some time to reflect on what are the great new things that are gonna happen in the new year? How -- strategize what you're going to be doing in the new year, and take that time to re-energize. Lau: Mm. Absolutely. If you can, re-energize, rejuvenate, and re-envision everything that you're doing and just enjoy, like enjoy that time of year. Enjoy the weather, enjoy the family, enjoy, and inspire your business in a new way as you go into the new year. Inspire yourself. Anne: Love that. Love that. So yeah, BOSSes, happy holidays, BOSSes. Go and refresh and get inspired, and hope you have the most wonderful holiday season, from the BOSSes to the BOSSes. Great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also 100voiceswhocare.org, you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have a great week and we'll see you next year. Bye! Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this extended episode, Anne chats with Landon Beach, the author of Narrator, and Scott Brick, the narrator of the novel, to find out what makes a great narrator-author relationship. If you're a writer, you know your characters, you understand their motivations and their goals. Creating a standout audiobook means trusting an actor to take the story to new heights. That's why we love audiobook narrators! They bring our characters to life with their voices, and they do it so well that we feel like we're coming along for the ride. Landon spent months learning everything he could about Sean Frost, the protagonist in "Narrator" He researched Sean's hobbies, his interests, his personality—even his favorite color! Many details of Sean that didn't make it into the novel became essential for developing his character in Scott's voice. We discuss how Landon's deep research into the character of Sean Frost led him to fully embody the role, and how Scott's experience as a voice actor informed his understanding of the subtleties that make this story great. We also talk about how you might be able to use your skills, interests, and background to add new textures & experience to your work as a voice actor. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I am so excited to have two very special guests on the show. Welcome Landon Beach, author of the psychological thriller Narrator, which is available now wherever fine books are sold. Landon previously served as a naval officer and was an educator for 15 years before becoming a full-time writer with six titles, the latest being Narrator. Welcome Landon. Landon: Hey, Anne, thanks for having me on. Anne: We also have the actual narrator of the book Narrator and award-winning narrator who has more than 800 books to his name -- maybe there's more by now -- 600 Earphone Awards, a Voice Arts Legacy Award, a Grammy nomination. Welcome Scott Brick to the show. Scott: Hey, hey. It's so good to see you all. Anne: I know! You guys, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today about this book, which is amazing, BOSSes. So if you don't mind, I'd like to start with just a little bit of a preview, if you don't mind. I'm gonna play this and hopefully you guys will be able to hear it. Here we go. >> Why do authors have to kill off characters we love? I, Sean Frost, sit in my darkened recording booth and stare at the final paragraph of the novel I am narrating. Almost there. Finish it. Finish it right, finish it with a flourish. But I can't, not right now for I am crying. The main character, Nehemiah Stone, died two pages ago in a self-sacrifice that I had not seen coming. The book, The Paris Sanction, is author M. Scott Sal's fourth Nehemiah Stone thriller, which I have waited patiently for two years for the chance to narrate. Five years ago, Simon and Schuster thought I was the perfect narrator for the job when they contacted my agent, David Killian, whom I affectionately refer to as Killy. Anne: . I would love to play all of that, but I'm gonna leave the BOSSes in suspense . Wow. So you guys, for me, I mean, having read the book and listened to the audio book as well, it's amazing. And so I'd love to talk to you about the process. So let's start with you, Landon, after being an educator -- thank you very much for your service, thank you -- what was your thought process in becoming a writer? Landon: Well, I've always written ever since I was young, and I had a wonderful English teacher in high school who really encouraged me. And then it kind of went away for a while. As you said, I went off and served, but I don't think I ever lost the passion for reading or the itch. And so fast forward many years later, and Scott and I started working together and developed a friendship. And I had an idea that I had been tossing around in my mind for 20 years because I've always loved the entertainment industry. I love to watch movies and study film. And finally it came to me one day after Scott and I had finished I think three books together. I thought, I think I have a way to tell an entertainment comeback story that has never been done before with an audiobook narrator as the main character set within the framework of a psychological thriller. So that's where the idea came together. It wasn't until I started working with Scott and got to know a little bit about the audiobook world before I saw the opportunity that was in front of me. And then I shoved all other books to the side and just immersed myself in that world. And here we are today, . Anne: So I guess I should ask you then, how did you find Scott? So then Scott kind of contributed to the idea of the book for Narrator after you'd worked with him? Landon: He did not contribute to the idea at all. I shocked the heck out of him when I presented it to him. Anne: Oh, awesome! Landon: Yes. Now after that, yes, he was very helpful and had so much, you know, generous feedback. And the book, whatever success it may have, is in large part, of course, not only to his narration, but just his extreme kindness and professionalism, talking about the industry and seeing what worked and what wouldn't work in the book. And if we were gonna break some rules, to knowingly break them, so that it would be authentic and that the research would be impeccable. So that not only the common fan for 99% of them would not know where we're bending the rules or not. But it was important to us for maybe the 1%, the people that are in the industry that Scott and I both love, would appreciate the nods and winks and the Easter eggs. Anne: Oh, yeah. Landon: And just the fun of it that it hadn't been done before. So in terms of how I found Scott, I had placed in a few writing competitions for my first two novels, and I had written a third novel, and I was discussing with my wife how we might expand the business. And audiobooks were exploding back then and continue to explode now. But this is around 2019. And to make a long story short, I had been a fan of Scott's for years. Didn't know him at all. But I thought, well, if there's one person that I would love to narrate all of my books from now until eternity, it would be Scott. And I saw that he was an entrepreneur, and his ahead of the game, was already working with some indie authors at that point. And so I contacted his amazing production manager, Gina Smith, and reached out and asked if, you know, he'd be interested. And through a process that we went through, we ended up doing a three-book deal. And then it led to later books. So that's sort of how we got together on this. Anne: Well, I love the fact that you've continued to have Scott in your books. And so Scott, I imagine you had some collaboration after the surprise of finding out that he wrote a book about an audio book narrator. Talk about the process of collaboration with Landon. Scott: I will. I'll be happy to. But Landon, I just want you to know, thank you for the kind words, but you've only got 45, 50 minutes. I'll give you 50 more minutes to say good things about me. . It's very kind. Thank you. This was a marvelous surprise. Landon I got to know one another through letters, through emails, cards that we would exchange, and found out that we're both huge fans of Old Hollywood. I probably can't tell that I love old Hollywood, 'cause the books behind me. And at one point, I guess when he had this idea, he asked if he could maybe get some feedback. You know, essentially it was like an interview. He wanted to interview me about how audiobooks are made. And I remember him saying that he had this idea and very broad terms. Now, I wasn't really privy to what was going on in the story. I just told him about the process. And about six months later, he goes, oh, by the way, here you go. And I went, holy shit. Okay. Well, I guess he did. People say they're gonna do things all the time; it doesn't always happen. And then he asked me to read it ahead of time and just give him feedback. I mean, he was talking about like the rules that we break. You know, there's one thing about the audio book industry. It's very gender and ethnicity centric, right? If a black man writes a book, they're gonna hire a black man to narrate it. Same thing. People ask me why I work so much. I'm like, well, there's a lot of old white guys writing books. Right? And in the book at the very beginning is the Audie Awards. And Billy D. Williams has his memoir come out, and there's a woman who is nominated for best narrator of the year for having done that book. And I was like, hey, Landon, I'm sorry to tell you. But you know, they would hire a guy to do that. And , I just love the fact that the way that he addressed it was just talking about the elephant in the room. He said, you know, at one point Billy D. Williams says, you tell me that woman can't read my book? Are you kidding me? You know, and again, it just, address the issue and then move on. The collaboration, for lack of a better word, I was just primarily giving feedback like that as well. It's just that first interview. I remember days before the book was coming out, he emailed real quick and said, is it appropriate to say, I hit the record button? Is there an actual button that you hit in the studio? And I said, Well, no, not really. I mean, I'm not using hardware, I'm using software. So I have a shortcut. I hit the number 3 button on my keyboard. And he goes, But do you use that terminology? "I hit the record button." I said, No, I typically say I hit record. Okay, great. And that's what came about. And you know, they're small things, but Dan Musselman, who's one of my favorite people of all time, he gave me my career, basically. And he always said, you know, most books are a 100,000 words long. You could get 99,999 of them right. But if you pronounce one of them wrong, it will ruin the experience for the listener. And this is a similar thing, if you get the terminology wrong, it would take some of us right out of the experience. Anne: Absolutely. Well, absolutely. And I was just mentioning before when I was speaking in to Landon, how at home I felt with everything, everything was like, it was familiar to me. It was at home. Like, you grabbed a cup of tea for your throat, and you're at the award ceremony, and all of it just was so comfortable and just so wonderful and amazing. And I can't say enough good words about it, but I imagine that this was a little more collaborative than most audio books. Like Scott, talk a little bit about the process when you're hired to narrate an audio book, and how much interaction are you having with the author, or what does that look like? Scott: You know, it all depends on whether you're working directly with the author or through a publisher. Um, publishers really like to curate the relationship, for lack of a better word. They like to limit the amount that you really get to interact with the author. Then again, I have authors I've worked with for 20 years, and it's like, there's no way we're not gonna talk about it. You know, I'm like, okay, he's coming over to my house for a dinner. Am I not supposed to talk to him about his book? And if it's a Dune book, I've done all of those, I think 25 of them now. I call the author , and we go over all the pronunciations for the made up names, phrases, and whatnot. That's typically what will happen. I'll reach out to, you know, Nelson Demille. He puts in real people's names in the books that he writes. Because they've made charitable donations. Well, I wanna make sure that I'm, is it Carns or is it Kerns? They deserve to have their name said right. That's typically the way it works with an author. But when you work directly with an author like I've been blessed to do with Landon, he'll tell me, this thriller was inspired by this movie. He even sent me a copy of it on DVD. I'm blanking on it now. The Gene Hackman film. Why am I blanking? Landon: Night Moves. Scott: That's it. Exactly. So I watched that the night before, and it just helps get you into the mood. If anything else, the relationship that I've had, this working relationship with Landon, which is thankfully for me, become a true friendship, has informed my work on his books. It's nice to know when he sends me an email saying, you know, I got this character. I was inspired by this film, by this actress, by this actor -- it's really nice to know that kind of thing. Nobody listening will realize, oh yeah, that was Gene Hackman who inspired that character. Anne: Sure, sure. Scott: And yet, I know, and it makes it different for me and hopefully more layered and textured for the listener. Anne: So I guess my question would be is when you take on a character, right, you fully envelop that character. How do you prepare for that? And also, I'd like like to ask Landon, was it a surprise when Scott interpreted the character in the way that he did? Landon: So for this one, Anne, you read it ahead of time, Anne, which was wonderful of you to do that, because I wrote this in first person present tense. I felt that I had to know Sean Frost better than any character that I've ever written before. And I am not exaggerating here. I spent months working on Sean. I have 60 or so handwritten, two-sided loose leaf pieces of paper with notes about Sean Frost, his backstory, where he was raised, the toys that he played with when he was young. You know, millions of things that will never get into the book. And a lot of that was inspired by a book that had come out just recently, Character by Robert McKee. And it can be really intimidating to go through his books, but they're so worth it because the journey he takes you through in the -- he asks the hard questions. And so I told Scott this beforehand, I said, my biggest fear when the book was to come out was that someone would get to a place -- like you said, you know, if you get one word wrong, like he's talking about with Dan, is that someone would say, Sean Frost would never say that. Or Sean Frost would never do that. And that's scary and intimidating because you don't want something to take the reader or listener out of the experience. And so I felt comfortable after putting all that work in that I knew who he was, at least to start writing about him. And to add into the research before I say about, you know, Scott's interpretation of Sean, one thing that our relationship has developed far enough along where we're comfortable sending each other things and suggestions. And so this has a lot of pop cultural references, but it also has, I always have a soundtrack for all of my books, and it's, you know, songs that inspired me while I was writing. And if someone listened to all of those that say, how in the heck did you get Narrator out of all of those or the nonfiction books that I read? But there's something about it that I know as Scott, as a performer, as an actor, they're hungry for information. And let me see what I can do with this. And it's always on, you know, I always kinda say a volunteer basis -- he could use nothing that I give him, and we'd be completely fine. But because we're friends and we've had exchange of ideas, and in a lot of points in Narrator that made it better, it was the, let's let the best idea win here, no matter who came up with it. And so I was happy to, to go along with that. But I sent him an email for Narrator that was just massive, but it had every single pop cultural reference in Narrator. And there are points where, as you know, Sean acts them out in his mind and he's thinking about them. And so I thought, well, what if I sent those to Scott ahead of time? And so when he got to that part of the book, he could, he could look at that and work into the scene. And like, like he said, no one else would know that he watched Michael Douglas yelling to Sean Penn in The Game before he actually acted that out. But it keeps things fresh and, you know, energetic. And so that's what I would say about his performance is that, oh my gosh. I mean, just delighted. And I don't know a ton about the industry, but the respect that I gained in the year to year and a half of research before I approached him, I'm surprised I kept it a secret that long, but I was so intimidated before going because I wanted to make sure that I had done my job. But what I did realize is that there are interpretations and decisions -- he's making creative choices of taking that character on sometimes in every line or every word with what you're gonna stress and whatnot that I never noticed before. I always say that Scott and other wonderful performers, they make it seem easy where, oh, I'm just listening to this great audio book. I'm completely in there. But the decisions that you have to make to have that come alive. So yeah, absolutely. To see that hard work pay off, and to see the directions that Scott took it as an artist and creator in his own right, I couldn't be happier. . Anne: That's awesome. So Scott, tell us a little bit about the process, about how you got yourself into character. Scott: So funny, because in acting circles, you're either method or you're not, right? Maybe you're more of a technique actor. God, what's that grape line by Spencer Tracy? He's, you know, his approach to acting was memorize his lines. Don't bump into the furniture. I'm not a method actor, and yet I really like to prepare my mood. We have to prepare the text, make sure everything is pronounced correctly. I have a researcher who handles that for me, but I want to make sure that my head is in the right space. So, yeah. I will watch Night Moves, the Gene Hackman film. Before Narrator, I watched Misery because they're similarities, you know? Somebody who's being held against their will and forced to create basically. What I find really interesting is, I'm going through all the pop culture references that Landon sends me, is sometimes I find some that really work elsewhere. For instance, he was talking about this, and as you heard in the preview, this character, Nehemiah Stone. Well, that's a character who was very much, I think in the same vein as Jack Reacher. And I'm all also blessed to work on that series. I got 'em all right up there, just right behind me. And Landon emailed me and said, you know, while writing this part of the book, I was listening to the theme from The Incredible Hulk in the 1970s, The Lonely Man that marvelous piano music at the end. It's heartbreaking. That actually used to be my ring tone on my phone, but it was so silent that I couldn't hear my phone ring. So I had . But now a month or two after I did Narrator, I did the most recent Jack Reacher novel, which was called No Plan B. And I watched that video. I listened to that music every day before getting started. And nobody who's listening to either Narrator or a Jack Reacher novel is gonna go, wow. Sounds like he was listening to this, to the Incredible Hulk theme. But audiobooks is a type of storytelling where subtlety plays, and if it affects my performance just in a little way, then wonderful. Anne: Yeah. And I felt that absolutely while listening to it, so many subtle, tiny things. I felt close from the beginning, really to the character, which I thought was just phenomenal. So I imagine that because you guys had so much correspondence back and forth, Scott, this is different for you in other books, sometimes. You don't have as much collaboration with the author, right? And so then what other things do you have to do to prepare? As you mentioned, some of your publishers don't necessarily want you to collaborate so much. So what do you do to prepare for those characters and for those books? Scott: I have a real keen sense for genre. Look, I love certain genres that I work in simply because I'm a book fan. That's the reason I got into this industry. I'll give you an example. We just, I was working with Penguin Random House and the estate of Raymond Chandler, and his family wanted the whole Philip Marlow Omnibus rerecorded. And they wanted to add music. And so they were looking for a new voice for Philip Marlow. And they hired me. Now, sadly, Chandler passed away, and I want to say it was the late 50s, early 60s. There was no way I was gonna be able to have any interaction with him other than reading books that he wrote about writing. So what I did is, every single night -- there were eight books, seven novels, and one book of short stories. We recorded them over the course of a year, and every single night, the night before I would record, I would watch, maybe it was The Big Sleep, an actual Philip Marlow story. Maybe it was Double Indemnity. But I was watching film noir constantly, just to put myself in that mood, in that mindset, that hard boiled detective meeting the, you know, the femme fatale. Sometimes that's all you got. I've done that while doing the horror novels. I've watched Shining the night before, or The Ring. Yeah. I've done the same thing when I was recording Somewhere in Time. I watched time travel romances just to put myself in the right mood. Landon: Anne, if I could add something about the character and what Scott was able to bring to the table, I was asked in a recent interview, how did you pick Scott to do this? And, and I said that even if I would've had five different narrators before writing Narrator, I said, of course I would've gone after Scott because I knew it was first person present tense. But also it's so much in the mind of Sean Frost. And when I listened to Scott's work where he does first person -- one, if you identify with that character, at some point you're listening and you think, I'm that character. I'm going through this. Which is a wonder of fiction. But also two, you become immediately immersed in the narrative and the novel. Anne: Oh yeah. Landon: And Scott is great at that. It's kind of what they said about Tom Hanks when they picked him for Robert Langdon, is that they thought that without speaking, he is a fantastic actor of someone who's thinking, and less is more. And I like to think of Scott in those terms of when someone is speaking inside of their head and that internal monologue was a natural choice. And the caveat that we joke about is that, you know, Scott is not Sean Frost , but I thought he was perfectly suited to play that role. Like, and some people have asked me, they're like, they're like, Scott is Sean. I'm like, no, he's not. Anne: I was gonna say, can you identify -- Landon: But he was perfect for it because he's a conglomeration of all the narrators that I researched. All their methods and stuff are kind of melded into this one character. So yes, there is some of Scott that is in there, definitely. But some of the routines that Sean have are completely different than what Scott does. . Anne: Well, that's kind of good in a way. . Scott: All of my colleagues, all the narrators who've gotten back to me and said, I love this book. They don't ask about like abuse issues. They don't -- but anything like that, what they wanna know is, do you really make as much money as Sean Frost does? And I of course say, yes, I do, even though I don't . Anne: Landon, I wanted to say like the first person writing a novel in the first person I thought was really for this novel, I just thought it was really wonderful. Again, like you said, you picked Scott because you thought for him to do it in the character in first person was just, I think a phenomenal choice. Landon: Oh, thank you, Anne. That means a lot. Anne: But is that a choice as an author? Like, okay, when you sit down, you've got an idea to start writing. Like what makes you decide whether it's first person or how you're going to present that? Landon: Well, for this particular case, this is the first time that I've ever written first person. Scott knows from my other books, they've been the third person closed, third person omniscient. But coming up in getting ready to write this book, it really, a lot of it had to do with the fact that I'm trying to dramatize and make a psychological thriller about someone who stays in a really confined space, in a booth. And I empathize with that in terms of an author. I mean, I'm in my office right now, Anne, for 12 hours a day. It's really, really boring and lonely and hard work. And that's why I look forward to these calls, one, to see my buddy here because, you know, we need this as, as creators to touch base with each other every once in a while. And I always leave energized and enthused. But I thought it's gotta be a psychological thriller that's the route to go with making this so that there, I can bring in suspense and reliable narration, unreliable narration. And it opens up a different menu of things to play with the audience's mind and wonder what's real and get as many reversals, authentic reversals, not just cursory ones as we can throughout the entire book to keep people on, on the edge of their seats. So I thought for this one, I had to go all in on this one character. And I say this a bit tongue in cheek, but not, I miss him. I, I, I'm miss writing Sean. I really do. For that one intense period, and I think Scott would agree that when we got to the actual recording, I mean, it was like we were living in the same house next door to each other, and then it breaks away, and you go months without talking to someone. But that was so intense and we had to collaborate and work on a few issues that it was, I don't know, it's, it's like nothing I've never experienced before. Scott: Also, just from my perspective, what it allowed me to do was -- I don't wanna use the word improvisation, because this is a book. It's written, it is scripted. And yet there are those moments where you can improvise in terms of your performance. Not change the words, but like, he asked me about my own particular method of recording it. And for many years I've used a tally clicker. And I can demonstrate to you, you know, it's one of those things that click when you're going in and out of a venue, you see the guy who's counting heads. You know, how many people do we have inside now? Okay. It's technically called it tally clicker. But when I just use the words tally clicker, people always say to me, what? And I'm like, well, so I have to explain. Anne: Got one right here. Scott: Anything that makes the noise. Landon: There it is. There it is. Scott: Anything that will spike the wave form the waveform. Okay, well it's one thing to hear about it and then it's another thing to actually hear it. So I reached out to Landon, and I was like, how about -- 'cause this happens at the very beginning as I'm talking about the tally clicker -- how about I leave one of them in? And I had to call my, my edit my post house to say, I want all of them taken out except that one because it's the one that illustrates. As I'm talking about the tally clicker, I just went up to the microphone and just hit it four or five times. Oh, okay. Great. It'll help the listener. There was four or five things like that that, and I would always email Landon and say, is it okay if I put this in? At one point, I'm literally dabbing my lip balm on. He talks, you know, Sean, he's swishing his mouth with water. I left it in , you -- why not? Anne: I was at home, I'm telling you. Landon: It was so perfect. It was like special effects for a few parts. But it was those kinda layers that I think made this special in my opinion. Especially the time that he goes through Sean's routine, 'cause he goes through it a few times. But Scott picked the perfect moment because it's right at the climax, and here he is, you know, triumphant from let's just say some obstacles that he's had to climb over. And he's like, I dab this and you can hear it. And then I take a swig of water, and you can hear it. And I'm like, that is so perfect. I never even would've thought of that. Anne: I am in the booth. I am in the booth. Landon: I was there. Right there. Scott: The shape of your lips, it changes the sound coming out of it. And I was like, darn right. You know, and people were asking, my buddies were asking me, were you just like dabbing it with your finger? Hell no, I'm using -- Anne: Oh my gosh. Landon: Michelle Cobb was texting Scott back and forth and who is emailing me. And she was talking about it on the podcast, and she's just, you know, having a blast with the whole concept of Sean Frost. She's like, Scott, he's in a tuxedo. But I said, you know, the character that he was narrating in this book listened to me was -- and so I said, well, let's let Sean as a professional get into a little bit of method and do that. And so, yeah, I'm glad that some people like those moments and found them -- Anne: Loved them. Landon: -- entertaining and humorous. Anne: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Landon: It was fun. Anne: Absolutely. So is there a movie in the future? I don't know, I just Landon: I tell you what, I, I would absolutely love to see this made, and I was a screen writer before I was a novelist, and that's where my degree is in, my master's is in screenwriting. And so a lot of this, when I got to the end of it, I said, gosh, I can just, I can see it. So fingers crossed. Hey, anybody listening to this podcast, please reach out to Scott and myself . Anne: Yeah. Fantastic. So I asked that, but what's in the future for you next, Landon? Another book? What's happening? Landon: Yep. So I'm in the final editing stages of a murder mystery, and that's going to come out a month from now, right around Christmas. And I just found this out the other day that the first book in the series, Huron Breeze for thebestthrillerbooks.com won mystery of the year for 2022. Anne: Congrats. Landon: So I'm just excited, humbled, surprised, but it's gonna be neat to release a sequel when all of that gets shared. And so what Scott and I have talked about is that at some point, we'll do our pre-recording conference for Huron Nights, because we're gonna take the main character into a complicated place, because it's part of a trilogy. So usually this is kind of the Empire Strikes Back episode of a trilogy where everything goes to hell, and then they've gotta come back in the third one. So I look forward to that, and I have some, some interesting ideas of some things that might inspire him as he gets ready for his performance. And then I'm collaborating too with Susanne Elise Freeman on a novella, which is gonna take place in between books two and three, and it's going to be an assassination, spy, espionage short. And so we've already talked over Zoom, and I'm thrilled to be working with her. She's gonna of course play the main character in this one. And then we'll wrap up this trilogy with Huron Sunrise. And then finally I'm gonna get to the end of the Great Lake Saga, which is book five in that saga. I have a book on every Great Lake, and so I have four of them, but the last one has taken a backseat just because once Narrator got into my mind, I mean, the seas parted and it was all I had to get that out. And then of course the mystery, that's kind of taken on its own life. It was only planned as a standalone, but so many fans liked it and wanted more, I was like, well, I, I'll have to think about it. I did not plan to write anymore about that. Anne: Yeah. Well count me as one of those. Landon: Busy year coming up. Anne: Yeah. Well, it sounds like so much fun, all your projects coming up. Scott: You know what I, what I love about it is that when we were doing the first book in that series Huron Breeze, and there's this moment where there's a book within a book, right? There's a, a woman writer at the center of it, and she has written this wildly successful book, and they talk about how the audio book was narrated by Susanne Elise Freeman, my girlfriend. And I, and there was like a line or two in it that she actually says, and I said to Landon, you want me to have her come down to the booth and just have her say that? And so we had her do the, the opening credits too, so you -- her voice wouldn't come as a surprise. And then Landon gets this idea that like, oh, maybe I'll write the book within the book. And so he's having Suzanne narrate it; I just love it. It's become a cliche to, to talk about thinking outside the box, but that's where growth comes from. That's where industry norms become, you know, stretched and we expand and grow. And I just love the fact that he is open to, great, let's do something a little different. Anne: Well, I have to tell you, I'm not an audiobook narrator. I've, I've narrated one a long time ago, but I'll tell you what, you guys just make it sound so wonderful and delightful that, BOSSes out there, I'll tell ya, you guys are inspirational. And I really, really appreciate you talking to us today. And I had all these questions, but the whole conversation, I just love the direction it took and I appreciate. Scott: No, I was, and I was gonna have to cut you off from saying nice things. Anyway, that another 15 minutes. That's it. Anne: Well Scott, tell us, outside of working with Landon, is there anything else going on in your future that you'd like to let the BOSSes know about? Any other exciting projects? Scott: Yeah, I've got some wonderful books I've been working on recently. Just finished a historical thriller. It's non-fiction, but it was about the plot to kill Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin at the conference in Tehran, the first of the two times that the three of them met during World War II. The Nazi, it's called The Nazi Conspiracy. And that was really just a brilliant book. I'm also working on a couple of podcasting projects, scripted podcasts about the history of LA, the history of the entertainment industry. You can tell from books behind me, I love the silent film era, and I have an idea that I would love to just share with anybody who's like-minded and fascinated. Anne: Yeah. I'm already intrigued by that. I think that sounds like a fabulous idea. Scott: Awesome. Anne: Absolutely. So tell the BOSSes how they can get Narrator and any other book. Landon, where is it available, at Amazon, on your website? Where can they go to find out more? Landon: So there's links to all of my books on my website, LandonBeachBooks.com. But the Kindle version is exclusively on Amazon, but the paperback, you can get at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, anywhere pretty much. And the audio books are wide, so anywhere that audiobooks are sold, you can get a copy of Narrator in 30 seconds. Anne: Fantastic. Yes. So any last, I'm gonna say tips for the BOSSes out there for them to be BOSSes and be successful in their voiceover endeavors or their writing endeavors? Scott: I would say, from my perspective, don't be afraid to reach out to the author because you never know what can happen because of it. Be willing to do something that you might not ordinarily do in the booth. Years ago, there was a book I was doing where one character had an entire package of chewing gum we wanted in his cheek, and it actually spoke about how it changed the sound of his voice. And I knew it wouldn't sound right if I was just doing this. So I reached out and I said, would it be okay if I record all those lines separate and they get edited in later? I checked with the editor, with the publisher and I recorded the whole freaking thing with a, a wad of chewing gum in my mouth. And never in my life before or since have I brought chewing gum into a booth . But that was the time it seemed appropriate. So dare to think differently. Anne: Yeah. That makes the difference. Landon? Landon: Yeah, so I would say an idea that you might want to consider, I know that a lot of audiobook narrators, they will put some of their background and their history of what they did before they became an audiobook narrator. But I would encourage them to list as many things as they were involved in before because you never know if an author is writing about a specific subject -- we can use Narrator as an example. But of course I was looking for someone who had not only audiobook narrating experience, but performing arts experience, which was another reason it worked out perfectly to go with Scott on this. But maybe there is an opportunity of, I don't know, if you were a trucker or something else before you became a narrator, that you might be able to lend a unique experience and voice to that project in a realm that you're already really well versed in with audio books. So I would say, you know, not to run away from your previous background. It might lead to an interesting book that you're a part of. And the other part is just that, yes, there are some authors, and I can say this, they don't really wanna have a relationship. You know, they're like, I did this, you know. The narrator doesn't exist without me because I wrote the book. And you know, obviously those are not gonna be the kind of relationships that would work out like Scott. But with us, there might be an opportunity to really have a unique kind of collaborative environment, not like a total collaboration, which we've said, which is, you know, I have my turf and he has his. But yeah, there could be something that you did not know or expect. I never saw this coming until we became friends, and I, I really can't see Narrator without it now, if that makes sense. So. Yeah. Anne: Absolutely does. Well, gentlemen, it has been such a joy talking to both of you. Thank you so, so much for your words of wisdom and inspiration. And BOSSes, go get Narrator. I'm telling you, go out and get it now. In less than 10 seconds you can click and have this experience for yourselves. Gentlemen, thank you so much. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. You guys, have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Gratitude is not just a feeling. It's a practice, and it can change your life. This week, Anne & Lau discuss bringing gratitude into your life and biz. They dive into what gratitude can add to your life - a sense of purpose, community, & fulfillment. Take a moment to think about how grateful you are for your life, your family, and the people around you. What if you added just one more thing to that list? What if you took stock of what you're grateful for every day? A grateful mindset makes you easier to work with. It helps people feel good around you + attracts people & opportunities your way. So if you're ready to start crafting gratitude into your life, tune in! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited as always to have with me my special guest co-host Lau Lapides for Business superpowers. Woohoo! Lau: Hey! Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. So great to be back. Anne: It is wonderful, wonderful to have you. So I was noticing, Lau, lately, it's the holiday season or the holiday season is upcoming. And I have been seeing a lot of talk about gratitude and thanks and people have 30 days of thanks. And I think it's a wonderful thing. I love being able to express gratitude. I think it's healthy for us personally, and I also think it's healthy professionally, but I also think we should be practicing gratitude year round . And I think that gratitude can be a wonderful springboard for growth for not only yourself personally, but for your business. What are your thoughts? Lau: I could not have said that any better. And actually you took the words right out of my head. Anne: I did? Lau: Yes. I was just working with -- Anne: Great minds, Lau. Lau: Yes. I was working with some clients and we were saying, you know, this particular talent, whatever, they should be thankful for having this particular opportunity because it's so interesting, it's so unique and it's so hard to get. And I thought, oh my goodness, it's so true; having gratitude, being thankful every single day, like writing it down, speaking it to someone. Not just thinking it. Right, Anne, 'cause when it's in our head, it's not always as real as when we're doing something actively. Right? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: So if I'm thankful, I'm gonna show an action based on that. If I'm really grateful for something, I might tell someone that I'm grateful, and that action is so important to do every single day of the year. Anne: I consider it a springboard for so many good things that can happen from the start of just thinking of being grateful. It turns your mindset around from, let's say, complaining about something . Like for example, it's been cooler now in Southern California. I for one, love the cooler weather, but sometimes that means, well now I gotta turn the heat on. And so therefore now my heating bill is gonna go up. Whatever it is, I'm just gonna be thankful that I have a change of seasons here in California. And I don't have to turn my air conditioning on. So I think it's a mindset switch from the thinking part of it. And then I think like as you were saying, I think putting things into action, telling people about what you're grateful for or telling people, like I'm grateful, Lau, that you are here today with me doing this podcast. And I'm grateful for all of the episodes that we've done so far. And I'm grateful for all the ones that are going to be coming up because I think it's just done wonders for me personally to get to know you. And I have gratitude for you as a friend, but also as a professional partner. Really. Lau: Well, I am so grateful that you thought to even ask me to be on the program. In fact, I'm gonna go back before that. I'm grateful that we were on a panel together, right? The gods of the panel conferencing universe put us together. I'm grateful that we're assertive business women. And we're unashamed and not frightened to reach out to each other, even though we didn't know each other at all. And say, hey, let me celebrate you. Let me work with you and bada bing, bada boom, as they say, I mean, it's like, wow. All of a sudden project, you thought to invite me to your podcast, which has been an incredible experience. And it's just that journey. I'm thankful for the journey of going on the process. Anne: That is what is so cool about -- you're right. It's not just a one time thought of gratitude. It becomes this journey which can evolve into so much more. So one single thought of gratitude can evolve into much more. And that thought of, wow, we were on that panel together. Wow, this is great. This woman is amazing. Like I really like, let me reach out to her and let's see if we can form a partnership and see if we can work together in some way. We worked together. We now have this wonderful series of podcast episodes, and I have grown personally and professionally. So many opportunities have now opened up for our relationship that we've developed. Right? Opportunities to meet other casting directors, to meet other people, to meet wonderful VO family. And it makes me connect to my East Coast roots. I mean, there's just so many good things that have happened from the one thought of grateful in my brain. So I love the action where you can not only think about what you're grateful for, but put it down on paper. I love the whole people putting what they're grateful for on Facebook or on Instagram, whatever your social media platform of choice. I think if everybody could just put what they're grateful for, like every single day, wouldn't that just be a cool thing? Lau: That's a great action to do. It's what I call making sparks. If you can make sparks, then you can make fire. And making fire is really about -- they used to say in business, you know, I'm setting the world on fire. not in any negative way, but like I'm awakening territory that I want to inspire new relationships, new fertile grounds for business, for not only business, but also for friendships, also for social relationships. Like you have to have that action inside of you so that you can do the spark, so that you can catch fire a little. You can't always rely on other people to do that for you. Right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: And that one little spark, that one little thing you make could do a whole lifetime, could open up a whole lifetime of a trajectory of business and friendship and joy and health for you. And you go, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done that, all of this other stuff would not have happened. Anne: I just saw that happen with a client that I had worked with, and I had the opportunity while I was at a conference to meet in person with them. And I remember -- you wouldn't think that I'm a nervous type , but sometimes, right, especially if this client -- this client was very well known, CEO, president of the company, that kind of thing. So when it comes time for me to just meet face to face for the first time, I'm a little bit like, oh my goodness. You know, I've done some work and I've had some association, but not direct all the time. Lau: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And meeting this person and expressing my gratitude, being able to work with them and how much I enjoyed it, how much I admired and respected their work really led to this relationship where I felt great about it. But not only that, but I just got another invitation to do some more work for this client. So I believe that it truly led to other work. And it doesn't mean -- now look, I think there's so many things that go into creating a good relationship with a client. It's not always about, oh, Anne Ganguzza has the best voice. Right? It really becomes, oh, she's got an amazing voice. But also she is wonderful to work with, she's easy to work with, she's reliable. And so those things all come into play. And when you're paying gratitude or respect to your clients, I truly believe that it will come back to you like threefold. Lau: That's exactly it. And there's a, you know, doing the checkbox is like, it just makes their life so easy then you are a great package. You do know what you're doing, you're well prepped, you're professional. They don't have to worry about the trust factor. But there's so much more in all of that. There's almost like a mystique, like a mysticism of how people come together, how gigs get done, how process takes place. There's -- is something very mystical about that. You can't always explain every single step. Like how were we in particular invited to that panel? How did we notice each other and then reach out to each other? I don't know. There's kind of like an unspoken truth that we may not know what that is and it's okay to not know. But then is that makes it exciting a little bit. It's not completely predictable. All we know is we have the ability to assert ourselves and to put our best foot forward. That's like all we know. And then if it doesn't work out, we're eloquent about saying, okay, it's not gonna work out now. Hopefully in the future it'll work out. But being the fire starter, making that spark is really important and not waiting for someone else to do it. Anne: You know what else is interesting? And this is making me think now in terms of, I said, well, it's not always about your voice. Right? It could be the whole package. I truly believe, especially in these times where we want authenticity, we want believability. I truly believe that you, that you bring to the party, that unique part of you, if gratitude is a part of that, I think it's an attraction, right, for other people. And so, even though you might be reading somebody else's words from a script, that gratitude is part of your personal makeup. And that personal makeup is part of that you that you're bringing to the party. And I believe that the positivity, I think there's a lot of positivity around gratitude, that comes with just you being authentic and then bringing that authentic you to the script -- even if it's like behind, let's say, a character that's an evil villain or whatnot, there's still a part of you that you're bringing to it that cares that you're entertaining or cares that you're connecting. And I think that, like you said, that kind of part that you can't touch or feel it, that part is an important part of your voice and the package that you bring to the table. So I think that gratitude is one of those personality traits or one of those emotions that I think can really come out and affect your physical voice as well. Lau: No question. I think it affects everything, not just your mindset and your voice. It affects your body and how you move in space and how you make people feel. I always feel like, whether you're at home in your home studio, or whether you're at an office or going to someone else's rehearsal place or place of business, how do you make people feel at home? How do you host them in your space? And I, I always feel like if I come from a place of acceptance and gratitude, and thankfulness, and joy, and appreciation, they feel that. There's a pathos in that, there's an emotional pathos that they just pick up immediately that is not a self-centered, narcissistic kind of overly focused on myself kind of thing. But it's like, how are you feeling? Are you warm in this place? Are you comfortable? Do you have what you need? What have you. That I always feel comes out of knowing what to be grateful for. I don't think it's enough just to be grateful. I have to be specific. Just like my vocal delivery. I have to be specific on what am I thankful for? What am I grateful for? Let me write that down. Let me talk that to someone. Let me tell them. I mean, I don't know, it's kind of spiritual, isn't it? If I tell you, like you just told me, I'm so thankful for you, Anne, to have you as my new friend, my colleague, someone who's an inspiration in my life. Oh, I just got goosebumps. My eyes got a little watery on that because -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- it's emotional. It kicks up those muscles in you as an actor that go right into your muscles that are holding emotion, right? You see my eyes got a little watery when I said that. I'm not upset or sad. Anne: So it can make you a better actor. Look at that. I love that. I love that. Right? Some of the good things that come from feeling that emotion, and so much more moving forward energy than, let's just say, there's a lot of complaining going on in some of these social media circles. Right? And I feel like it's one thing to, if you have something that you're unhappy about, maybe, I don't know, either getting it out, writing it down, whatever it is. But I think a constant rehashing and circling and it's like some ball of negative energy. I don't think that that's necessarily healthy. So I think that the more positive things that you can spin and then encircle yourself with and discuss and tell and talk with and -- I think the more forward we can move. I'm always about moving forward and not like staying in a pool of negativity. . Lau: I agree. I agree. Anne: Right? Lau: And you know, now that I think about it, you know, I'm in the commercial market as an agent, I'm thinking that probably 80'% to 90% of the copy that we see for talent is copy that you would describe as warm, friendly, healing, paternal or maternal, inclusive -- all these terms that you think, okay, I'm an actor. How do I get that out? How do I do it on the spot? How about this, one tactic is to do exactly what we're saying and be grateful. Write down what you're thankful for. Really pay attention to it in detail, emotionalize it and feel it. So you can call upon that when you're doing that next healthcare read. You can call upon that when you're doing that next parental read to say, wow, okay, I remember, I can recall -- actors recall. I can recall what that actually feels like as me a person. Then I can put that into my read. And now it becomes much more authentic and realistic to me as a person. 'Cause that conversational thing throws us all the time. Anne: It does. Lau: What is conversational, you know? Anne: And you know what's so interesting? So I'm gonna see that commercial and I'm gonna -- corporate copy, which honestly, if you think about it, it's the same end goal, right? Commercial, selling a product or selling a brand, same thing with corporate copy. Even though you might be delivering information like, here's our corporate governance, or this is who we are as a company, or this is a product that we're talking about as a company -- it's just a longer format, but still the same end result, right? Companies want you to be on board with their product and with their brand so that ultimately you'll buy from them. But I always like to go all the way back and say, look, when I worked in the corporate world, I remember, and I think I mentioned this to you, I was employee number 246 , um, at the company that I worked with out of school. And I loved the product, I loved the company, I loved what we did. I was passionate about it. I felt like we were helping people. I want everybody that's voicing a piece of commercial copy or corporate copy or whatever it is that has a product to think about that company. Ultimately, I wanna look at the good and say that, well, whoever formed this company, let's say, I'm speaking on behalf of, I don't know, Hope Hospital or whoever that is, there was a good inherent in the formation of that company or that product because they wanted that product to help someone. And that's what I like to think in terms of when I'm going into a piece of copy that there's always a good for this product that's going to help people. And when I think that way, that brings out that positive, that gratefulness, that thankfulness, and that becomes the real and the authentic part of me voicing copy from that. So it goes beyond just, well, let's say I remember that feeling from being grateful here, but here, let's put ourselves in the scene. Let's be an employee of the company, and let's be grateful that we are offering something that can help others to do their jobs better, to be faster, whatever. Lau: And that's that deep dive empathy factor that we're all kind of going for. We may not use it all the time, but we wanna have access to that when we need to have access to that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And yes, it's not enough to say, oh, I understand it intellectually. I get it. I'm thankful intellectually that's the beginning. But I think the deeper dive is I can feel that I can live that with you. I can go through the hardship of it. I can understand the problem solving, the need filling, the care taking of that. I can get there and because I can get there, there is that true authenticity to that kind of read, whatever that read is, I would venture to say you could put that into anything, whether it was corporate or audio book -- Anne: Character. Lau: -- eLearning, right, character. There's gotta be a little nugget of something that, you know, what reminds me of Anne? Remember in all the famous sitcoms, like all of our favorite sitcoms from the past, they always yak-yak-yak-yak-yak. They had their studio laugh traps. Funny, funny, funny, funny. And then there was this one moment would land the entire episode where everyone would get quiet in the studio and you'd find yourself crying and you're like, why am I crying? It's like The Brady Bunch. Why we crying? It's like MASH. Why? Why did I feel that? Because they knew that. The writers were so smart, they knew how to take humor. And all of a sudden landed in such a way where we started to feel like, ooh, this is a real person and this is a real problem that we have to solve. And we're using humor to solve it in this case. And in the case of a sitcom, well, we're using all different kinds of tactics to solve our client's problems. Not just humor. We're using a lot of tactics. But the baseline is I have to land it. I have to feel what you feel. I have to move through it with you and I have to solve it. Anne: That's so interesting. And you said a word that I use a lot. And that's empathy. So empathy, when you are connecting with the copy and you are speaking to the person, right? You're speaking to a person who you wanna empathize with. What are their pains? What are their joys? What are their frustrations? And I think that there's so many emotions that play into the grateful, thankful part of it that we tap into. And I think what came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first? Empathy or thankful like . Do you know what I mean? I think they all can lead into a whole series of emotions. I think you can be thankful for just about everything in your life. I mean, I've always been that person that has tried to take what most people would consider a negative event and turn it into something that I'm grateful and thankful for. And one of those, and I've said it multiple times and I'll delve a little bit into it, is my cancer diagnosis. Right? I always, always had a passion for living and being grateful, but actually being diagnosed with cancer and then facing my mortality really made me a billion times more grateful for everything that I had and everything that I have now. And it's funny because I'm continually reminded in a way, because sometimes they say your journey is continual. Right? I still go to the doctor, I still get checked up, and every time I go to get checked up, you don't think I check, what am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? I'm thankful that I got through another test. I'm thankful that so many things. And in a way that's a blessing for me . And I can only see it as that because it helps me to always remind myself of what is wonderful in my life. What am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? And being in the booth, doing what I love, of course I was always thankful for it. But boy, am I thankful for it now because it's something that I was able to do literally two weeks after a major operation, I was be able to get in my booth and do something that I loved, which I was thankful for, thankful that I was able to do that and thankful that I was still there to do it. Lau: And you are not just a survivor now you're a thriver. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: Right? Because you're really utilizing this journey as one big tool of knowledge to understand how do I unlock, how do I unlock that chest of deep emotion? Like deep feeling, deep empathy. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And that to me is like, that's the ultimate truth. And even for the listeners who say, oh, I can't do any of this, I don't get the, any of this. Even from your business standpoint, just from your business standpoint, it allows you to come outside of yourself so you're not just self reflecting all the time. Anne: Right. Lau: And open up the gestalt of your world. Really just see the full map of what's around you when you have that moment of thankfulness. It just makes you remember that, oh my gosh, I have a mother, or I have a a husband, or I have a child, or I have a dog that I love so much. What would I do? What would I do without that dog? Anne: And that all contributes to not only your personal, but even your professional because of what we do, which is so I think part of our person, it's so personal, and it's so gauged on how we can be real and authentic. And that is, that's a privilege to be able to get paid for that. You know, to be able to get paid, you know, as an actor, right? To get paid for being able to bring those emotions to life and feel and express. And I think when it comes to being thankful and grateful that the action, again, I love the action, write it down what it is that we're thankful for. But also let's express it. Let's take it one step further, right? So how can BOSSes benefit from being thankful and grateful? Well, I'm gonna say outside of your own personal growth and your business growth, extend that to your clients, right? Extend your gratefulness to your clients to really secure -- I mean Lau, you and I have talked about securing relationships and nurturing relationships. I'll tell you that's one thing that will nurture your relationship with your clients, express to your gratefulness, to your clients. And don't just do it once a year, you know, at the holidays or twice a year. At any given point, just a simple note. It makes you feel good too, right? It does. But email or you, you pick up that phone and you're just like, Thank you. I am so thankful for the opportunity to work with you. I really appreciate it. And I think that that just extends goodwill. And it can help you grow your business. Lau: Anne, I had a new colleague, a co-producer in New York that I'm working with now, who said to me when we, not when we very first met, but within the first few months, he had come to one of my events, and he wrote back to me, I'll never forget this, he wrote back to me, he said, I'm so grateful to be a part of your life and your studio family. Thank you for including me in that. Just the way he said that, and that was on email, just the way he said that. I kept it. And I never forgot. I just thought that was the sweetest, kindest, most beautiful moment. As someone that I didn't know really a stranger, at all, who felt like he was so included. And I knew in that moment, you know in that moment when someone says that to you, Anne, not only are you doing your job, but you're also being a really progressive and thoughtful human being. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: You know what I mean? Anne: I love that. Mm-hmm. Lau: 'Cause it can't just be about business, right? It's gotta be about human, human people and what we're doing and giving to one another. That's really what it is. No matter what holiday you celebrate, if you don't celebrate any holidays at all, every day is kind of a holiday. Remember Madonna, Holiday, celebrate. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Every day should be a little bit of a holiday for you to celebrate life and what life is offering to you. Anne: Mm-Hmm. I totally agree. And I think extending that gratefulness and that thankfulness to your clients, I think that is the epitome of maybe not every single day, but absolutely that email. And I think also because we are so isolated in our studios -- I keep going back to like when I was in the corporate world and I would go into the office every day, and I would be surrounded by people or you know, when I first started in voiceover and I would go to an audition, I would be in a room full of people who are auditioning. I mean, it's kind of like being at the water cooler. And I feel like the gratefulness and thankfulness needs to be even more so because we are so isolated these days from the pandemic -- well now, we're getting more back into face to face where I think that makes an even more meaningful contribution when you're thankful and grateful and you're there. 'Cause you can see it, you can feel it. But if we are in our studios a lot of the time, I think we need to go an extra mile to showcase thankfulness and gratefulness to our clients. Because it's not so palpable for not like with them physically. Lau: Mm-Hmm. And on top of that, I mean, I think we would be off track if we didn't mention that every day you're gonna get something that gets boomerang; it's going be thrown in your path, a little obstacle, a little problem, a little something that doesn't go well. Be thankful for that. Anne: Yes. Lau: Be thankful because those are opportunities for you to learn and grow and feel hardship and feel fear and feel insecurity because that's what your client is feeling. That's what your colleagues are feeling. That's what people around you are feeling like -- Anne: That brings the empathy. Lau: -- understand that. Yeah. I wanna be able to live that a little, not all day long, but I wanna be able to be in that and understand it so that I don't think, oh, everything's gonna be smooth sail. Everything's gonna be easy going. No, I have to be thankful for the moments that teach me things that I didn't know, that I wasn't willing to look at or learn and now I see it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And being grateful for those moments, the moments when they're not all shining and rosy just again turns that into a positive moment. And, and of course positivity is a springboard for so many wonderful things. So, I love this conversation. I talk about gratefulness like every year right around this time because everybody's grateful and I talk about it, but I love the way that we deep dove into gratefulness and thankfulness and how it can positively affect you BOSSes out there by practicing it every single day. So Lau, thank you so much. Really. Yeah. I am grateful for this conversation. I loved it. Loved it. Lau: I'm grateful for you and how we unpacked this today. Anne: Right? Lau: It was really quite amazing. So thank you for that. And I'm grateful that this has recorded so that we can reflect on it over and over again. Anne: Well yes. Absolutely. So I am going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and show gratefulness and thankfulness with other BOSSes and clients and colleagues. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also guys, if you want to give back and have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We are grateful for you. We love you and we'll see you next week. Take care. Lau: Take care. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What gets you through the hard days? Purpose. It's what keeps you going when things are tough and when life seems overwhelming. Purpose is your why. Your VO biz is not just a job, it's an expression of who you are and what matters most to you. This week, Anne & Lau talk about what purpose is, why it matters (and why it doesn't have to be all about profits), + how you can identify your business' purpose. They also discuss ways to make sure that your clients, agents, and peers can feel your passion in your presence + hear it in your voice. Finally, they talk about how clear communication of your purpose can help align you with other people who share similar visions and goals. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm excited to bring back very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey! I'm awesome. I'm loving being back as always. Anne: I love this series, speaking of the business superpower series. So as business owners, we are superpowers, and one of our superpowers, Lau, has to be our purpose, right? Why did we get into this whole voiceover thing in the first place? And I think it's really important for us to understand what our purpose is and bring it to our business. I've been in this business for a long time, and sometimes that gets thrown by the wayside during the busy days. And sometimes we can maybe forget what our purpose is in the business, but I think we need to realign ourselves with who we are and who we are as a business and what is our purpose. Because people and potential clients align with that. And I think it's important these days. Lau: Yes, well said, Anne. We were just saying before that we start out with purpose when we're starting a business, but the purpose may change. It doesn't always stay the same through the years. If you're have luck and fate and love and passion, and you have a lot of longevity in your business, you become more and more purposeful and more and more subdivided in the reenvisioning and repurposing your purpose. And that, you know, that's something that all of our superheroes that we know and love have in common. They all have purpose. It's like to save the world, right, from certain destruction. Anne: Right. Lau: One of my purposes is to offer the world something specific that helps solve their pain point. What's their problem? What's their need? What is it? Anne: Exactly, what's their problem. And I'm going to say that it's important these days to have purpose beyond profit, right? There should be some element of your purpose that not only are you in business to make money, but you are also wanting to bring value to society or value to a cause that you might believe in, and something that I think your potential clients can hear clearly stemming from your business and get on board with, because I think you'll really end up with a lot of customer loyalty if you get people on board with your purpose. So it's not just to, I wanna voice a national commercial. I know that when we first start in the industry, we start with something very close to us. Well, it's a passion, you know, a lot of people getting into it. I love to create character voices, or I read to my children a lot. And so -- I've been told I have a good voice. And so I wanna be able to bring something to my career with my voice. I wanna be able to use it. So I think we need to look further and deeper into ourselves beyond that sole purpose of, yes, I'm passionate about voicing, but what else is it that you wanna bring to, let's say your business, to society that can help to, I think, elevate you and motivate you forward? And especially as you said over the years, like we kind of conquer and divide or divide and conquer and, and create more aspects of our business. And yeah, sometimes we start to really lose where that purpose -- where did that go? What am I doing this for? Lau: Hmm, yes. It's like losing an inner compass for a lot of us that start out extremely strong. I think it would be fair to say as a sweeping generalization, that many entrepreneurs, many solopreneurs start out with a high level of zest, of passion, of what used to be inserts that none of us ever knew; that was the Retzin. Like what's the Retzin in our purpose? So you gotta have that because that passion, that purpose really inspires you through the difficult days, through the tough times. You're right. It can't just be profit driven because there are gonna be many days where you're simply not gonna make a profit. And it's unrealistic to think that it's my business -- yeah, my business should be making profit all the time. I actually thought that at one point. Anne: News flash! News flash. . You may not make a profit every day. Lau: It sounds ridiculous. But it's like one of my actors, literally, literally this morning, I was talking to her and she said, I'm concerned -- she had switched agencies. And she said, I'm very concerned. I said, why are you concerned? She said, I'm not getting that many auditions. I'm getting like, whatever a week. I said, well, wait a second here. First of all, you have to examine -- I use the word intention, but purpose is great, fits right in right here -- like, what do you realistically want here? And what is your purpose in doing this? Surely it can't be that you're gonna get auditions all day long and book gigs all day long. Anne: Right. Lau: And make a profit all day long. Right? A lot of people actually do think that way. They think, well, I'm here. I'm talented. I love what I do. I'm ready. so why aren't I getting the outcomes that I'm expecting? Well, life isn't like that and business isn't like that. Business is really about relational management. How are you paying attention to the details of the client and what is their purpose and identifying it, like determining do they have purpose? And is it specific enough? Anne: Yeah. And I think that purpose probably starts when people get into the voice industry. I have so many people that I do consults with and there are people like, well, you know what, it's the pandemic, I'm at home. And I wanna be able to work from home and make money. I need to make money. And I'm like, well, okay. So that purpose is not as developed as somebody that I would necessarily wanna work with. So because their whole purpose is to simply survive probably or make money. And that's not necessarily the best purpose to come into the voiceover industry just simply because it's freelancer, and, and yeah, news flash we don't make profits every single day or maybe we do. But in order to get to that point of making a profit every single day, I think there's a lot more steps that need to be taken in terms of evolving your business and growing your business. But in the beginning, it's almost like a self-centered, I have a passion for voiceover. I enjoy it. I'm passionate about it, but I think it needs to go further than that. So it's a passion for you that you love to do, but what can it bring to your business? What can it bring to your potential clients? So for me, for example, some of my background, I worked for a short bit of time in orthopedic industry and in medicine. And so my voiceover genres have evolved into medical narration. And so I really take heart in wanting to voice something that will help people. And so my purpose, when I'm reading the back of that pharmaceutical label, it's not so that I can make money. It's my gig. I'm making, you know, $1000 or whatever I'm making. I'm imagining that I am helping someone who is frantically reading that label to make sure that they're taking the right dosage and to make sure that they're not gonna have crazy side effects and what to do in case they are, and where do they contact? What number do I call? And so I'm really thinking about that purpose, going beyond just me getting paid for the job. I wanna make sure that I'm able to bring my voice and my help and my service to people, to society. And that is just one small example. It's another reason also why I do eLearning gigs, because I feel that my purpose in life is to educate and to be -- I feel like that's really where my sole purpose is, is to really educate and bring education to other people, to help them grow their businesses or grow their voice over careers. And so for me, that love of teaching extends to my business, to my client. And so I take pride in the fact that there's purpose in that. There's purpose in this podcast. You know, this podcast stemmed from my wanting to give back to the community and have an educational resource for people that wanted to find out more about the voiceover industry. Lau: Mm that's great. I love that. What a great soliloquy and you know what? I just had a visual, speaking of branding and everything we talk about with business, I had a visual of like cleaner, like Windex cleaner or one of those cleaners. Why? Because on the front label, you almost always see the word multipurpose, on the front label. Okay, so that's the claim that they're making is that I can use it on my stove and my sink and I can use it on the windows. Right? It makes me think we need to have multipurpose as well. I think its a misnomer to think well, I just have one purpose. What's my purpose? Anne: Yeah. Lau: We're multidimensional human beings. And I can have the purpose that I honestly wanna help someone. I wanna guide them. I wanna sherpa them, if you will, but I also want them to create a viable return based business. And then I also want to lift the ethos of the company or what have you. So it's a multidimensional, multi-purpose framework that I think we can create versus this idea of, oh, I just have one thing in mind. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I was thinking about this this past week and I wanted to tell you, Lau, the one thing that I love about you, I honestly feel and I get the vibe that you are more excited even than I am to get work for me as an, as an agent. I really feel that because you reach out and you're asking me questions and then I can feel and hear the excitement. You're like, oh, I've got an opportunity. And I really believe that you get so excited about bringing opportunities and bringing job fulfillment to your roster. But I think it's more than just job fulfillment. It's about helping us to grow. And I really feel that from you. And so it's like practice what we're talking about, that makes me want to align with you even more. And so it really does my heart good to feel that from someone that I'm working with, because that makes me wanna work with you more. And I really believe that if we have a purpose that is to serve our clients, right, in the very best way, that's gonna be very obvious to them that that is what we are there. We are there to help them, to help them grow, to help them sell that campaign, whatever it is. If you are admitting that through your job, through your voice, through your interactions with them, it's very much a feel and something that makes them want to work with you again. Lau: Oh, thank you for saying that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I deeply appreciate that. And it's all true. Anne: It's true. It's very true. Lau: And I feel like you can feel that from an email, you can feel that from a text, at least I can and you can. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I can feel the level of connectivity. Anne: In three words. 'Cause you're busy, and you send me three words and I'm like, oh God, she's excited. She's gonna get me an opportunity. I can tell -- Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: -- from that short sentence and it's so amazing that you can do that. And it's like a magnet. And I think that that is something that we all can learn for our own selves in understanding our purpose and understanding us wanting to be more than just the profit making business. that's out there doing voiceovers. Lau: I would venture to say purpose is addictive. It's addictive. It's catchy. It's something when you're around, it influences you. You know, we talked about influencers all the time, but how do we influence our peeps, your VO Peeps and our audiences to move in a purposeful, mindful, specific and honest way is how we demo what we do, how we role play, what we do. It's hard to tell, but, but you guys should do this and you should do that. And then, then they don't see it in you. They're watching, they're mirroring psychologically. They're saying, Anne, I wanna see that in you. And when I see that in you, all of a sudden, I feel like I wanna do more. I feel like I wanna commit more. In fact, I wanna try, I wanna take more risks. Anne: It's motivational. It's inspirational. And again, if I go back to this podcast, I specifically remember, gosh, the podcast is now I'm gonna say close to six years old. Lau: Woo! Anne: That's a commitment by the way. This podcast is, is a free resource for people, my heart wanting to give something back to the community. And interestingly enough, I feel like for myself, when I got to a point in my career where I was not so frantic, but about, oh my God, am I going to make it? Am I going to be okay? And I started to feel the success, I wanted to share that and give back. And that became the sole mission of the VO BOSS podcast was to give back and to provide an educational resource. And even more so like these series, the superpower series, my AI series, you know, that's something that, again, I wanted to be kind of up front and educate myself and help educate the community on what's coming up in the industry. And what do we need to be on the lookout for? And that all comes from a place of wanting to help and wanting to provide resources so that people can use those resources to intelligently make decisions about their own businesses. And hopefully people that listen to the podcast feel that. And they, they can feel that from me as I continue to bring phenomenal guests like yourself onto the show so that we can help to be a resource. Lau: No doubt. No doubt. I do agree with you. I think even if you're not thinking in a philanthropic mindset, there is this essence, this circular, however you believe, a karmic essence, a circular that what you put out into the world -- and I teach this to my children and I try very hard to live it -- is put out exactly what you would want to get back. If it were a boomerang and I said this to someone, I did this to or for someone, would I want that for myself? Anne: Yeah. Lau: That old do unto others. But it really is true because there is a circular effect in our industry of what I'm putting out. And sometimes it's not profit driven, as we know. And sometimes we don't get paid as we know. There's always this karma effect of wonderful things that come back to you, and it could be in the form of just like a quick one liner. Someone says you change the way I think. You change the trajectory of maybe my life and you think, whoa, I love paychecks, but no paycheck can make me feel that way. Anne: It reminds me exactly why I loved education. And that's why I was in the education industry for 20 years. The fact that I had an opportunity to make a difference. And the funny thing is, is that it wasn't even about like, was I a good teacher? It was the fact that I had the opportunity to help and shape and hopefully motivate, hopefully inspire a mind that can grow and be successful, and I can be happy. And there is nothing, nothing better than that feeling of watching a student of yours go on to be successful. And I I'm gonna say I'm so, I'm so blessed, I really am, to have experienced that for so long and continue to experience. And I, I think that's why I think I was born to be an educator, which is why so much of my business is about education. Now, of course it's about voiceover as well. But like you said, there can be multiple purposes. So is there just one purpose? No, not necessarily. Right? I have that purpose of, I wanna be that voice that helps people when they're reading the back of the pharmaceutical label. I wanna be a voice that can educate others through an e-learning module. I also want to actually have something that can, you know, like my podcast or my VO Peeps group that can help the education. And again, VO Peeps was also stemmed from that same reasoning when I moved from the east coast to the west coast, I wanted to meet people who were in the industry. And I thought, well, what better way than let's create a group of people who are voiceover artists and VO Peeps began. And then I wanted to provide resources because I missed teaching. So it's funny because of course I love voiceover, but it turned into like multiple compartments of my business. And I think that anybody today in the voiceover industry, I don't know if I'd be so bold just to say this, but I think there are times as we grow, we do need to have multiple paths of income, right, in this industry. So I might not just be doing voiceover for all of my money. A lot of people it's just starting out have to have a part-time job or multiple revenue streams until they get to a point where voiceover becomes their full-time income. And that's where your purposes come in. Lau: Absolutely, Anne. I mean, that's, to me, it's a given, to you it's a given, but we do have to educate people that that is the nature of being a contractor. That is the nature of being a trades person, that you are going from job to job. And you kind of have to remember that throughout your life, but also it's okay. Like give yourself permission that whatever you call yourself, you're a creative, you're an artist. You are, whatever you call that thing in you that drives you, that gives you purpose also multitasks in different creative directions that you have to realize. A lot of times you can't be satisfied in just one direction. You have to be multi-directional -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- multi-purposeful, right, to feel like -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- yeah, excited and revived, a little splash in the face, 'cause you got a new project. I'm taking on a few new things right now that scare me to death, which I love. Because I haven't done them before. You do that throughout your whole life. Anne: I think as creatives, right, that's part of the whole creative mindset, is that I've always said I can't be bored, which is probably why I love to learn. Right? It's probably why I loved technology. I was in technology 'cause things change, things evolve. I liked fixing things. I was in technology. I would fix broken computers, all of those things that required me to do different creative things every single day. And thus, yes, I think as a creative entrepreneur, that's why multiple purposes can be beneficial. And for me it's so much about what can I give, and even in our performances, I'm always telling my students, it's not about your voice. It's about your connection to your listener, and what is it that you're going to do for your listener as you are servicing that piece of copy, right, for a company that's selling a product? What is that product going to do for the person that's listening? How is it going to help them? And that is where the glue is. That's where the connection is. That's where sales become successful. When you are able to help people, right, with a product that will make them feel better, look better, whatever, help them in some way. And that's what becomes the attraction, that force. Right? Lau: So, Anne, would it be fair to say that no matter where you're at in this game, that you've gotta think multi-purposeful and multidimensional that, on one hand, okay. It's a truism, I'd like to work. I'd like to be trained well. I'd like to have great equipment. Okay. We get that. But what is the higher purpose? What is the more multidimensional purpose of how -- let's say you're doing educational reads, eLearning -- how am I affecting a generation of middle schoolers as I do do this? Anne: Sure. Lau: How is my messaging? My voice, but my messaging here really taking effect? And is that an honest purpose that I have? Anne: Sure. And it can go beyond just the purpose of the effect of your voice having on let's say certain campaigns or people, but it can go on to say, well maybe I decide to take a percentage of my earnings. And I donate it or whatever that is. Or as part of my day to day business, I have a certain set amount of time where I mentor people, and it doesn't even have to be in voiceover. It could be in any sort of thing. Right? So a lot of companies have that philanthropic part to their business, because again, it's that what is a higher purpose for your company, for your business? And it's funny because a lot of people will relate it to like the creative aspect of it. What is my purpose? But in reality, defining your purpose in your business, right, it goes beyond just what is my purpose? But how does this purpose affect your business? And how is it that you are communicating that purpose? Is it clear? Do potential clients understand this about you and your brand? How are you communicating that purpose out to the world? Lau: And is it in alignment with the population or the clients that you're working with or out of you? Or are you out of alignment? I think identifying that and being honest about that -- sometimes you're just not in alignment with the people that you're working with or clients that you're working with. And then it's not a good thing that. Anne: Yeah, usually that doesn't end up working out. Lau: Yeah. I mean, you might have an organization that's highly philanthropic, and they want you to have an honest connection to the work you're doing. And you're coming in and saying, well, it's good gig. I'll add it to my resume. I'll get some money on it. It'll be good. People will hear my voice, but their vision is a lot deeper than that. And they need a lot more emotional commitment. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: You have to kind of be honest about that and say, is this a good fit? Are we spiritually aligned? Sometimes you have to think that way. Because sometimes you're not. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And we can hear that. Like we get that. We can hear that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: I can hear that in a demo even. I can hear it demo when someone is just not aligned, not present. They're not aligned. They're not present, they're doing it. And it's more of a perfunctory exercise than having joy. Some of my closer friends in the industry talk a lot about having honest, happiness and joy in what you're doing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And I think that's okay to have. It doesn't have to be this heavy, serious thing all the time. Anne: Right, right. Lau: There's okay to have humor. It's okay. To have joy. It's okay. To have that level of cookiness and quirkiness 'cause you're creative. That's what creatives do. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? We get paid to be quirky. Anne: Yes. There you go. Lau: In a way, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't sound that I shouldn't. Well, but sometimes you get hired for that stuff. Sometimes you have long term relationships 'cause they know how quirky you are. Right? And we're both quirky. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And sometimes that becomes kind of part of the purpose is like one of my purposes is I'm gonna stay true to my persona and my personality while I service the client in the most honest way that I can, but I don't wanna lose myself. In other words, I don't wanna lose my identity. I don't wanna lose who I am. That's a toughie. Anne: Sure. Yeah. A lot of times when we think about, okay, do you align with certain ideals? Right? Do you align with diversity, inclusivity in casting? That's a big one today, right, that all around in corporations, it's all about inclusion, diversity and that sort of thing. So is that something that you align with in casting? Are you willing to pass on opportunities if you feel that it's not the right job for you. Are you gonna pass on an audition or are you gonna recommend somebody that you feel would be better? So that goes beyond, well, I'm gonna do every single job, and it's not just about like the political genre, right? Because the political genre, that's very obvious. Right? So are you on one side or the other? And so this really just goes beyond just a political genre kind of thing in terms of like your purpose and aligning yourself with ideals and making them known to your client. It's about everything that you do. It's about how you communicate it to your client. It's embedded in your performance. That's what I love that you, you brought that back into the performance aspect. We can hear it if you are not aligned in that way. And so I think for the BOSSes out there, if you haven't sat down and just, in a quiet area and just thought about your purpose, maybe jot it down or your purposes, right, what is it that you really are trying to do with your business that can be more than just creating profit? Lau: Yes. I'll leave you on this note. My dad who recently passed away, not too long ago, he was a great businessman, great entrepreneur. And he would give me loads of wisdom, loads of gems of wisdom. And one of the ones I will never forget, way before I even started a business, he would say about starting businesses, he'd say you need to do what your plan is, what your plan of action is, do it for free, and do it for a long time to make sure that you wanna do it because once you start a business on it, don't expect to make money for a good five to seven years. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Right? And the Eastern philosophy is like 10 years. Like don't expect to really make a profit. Okay. So I always kept that in the back of my head. Don't mistake that for devaluing what you do. Oh, I'm only gonna do it for free and work for free. It's to say like, if you take that as an example, don't take it too literally. Take that as an example and say for a period of time, whether it's philanthropic or whether it's just for my own sense of knowing what my purpose is, I'm not gonna collect money on this. And these situations are appropriate for me not to collect money on this, and see how I feel about the work that I'm doing. Am I really willing to put in X amount of hours without billing X amount of hours? I found that very telling, and certainly actors who come from actor backgrounds spend years not getting paid or getting paid very low wages, and still do it, still wanna do it, still wanna continue it. Anne: And that's so interesting because if you've ever read any of Bob Bergen's posts, he's all about, I didn't start doing it for the money, and he had a purpose. Lau: Right, right. Anne: And so he's very adamant about that to the point where I think some people kind of look at him and go, okay, okay. Okay. But I've gotta, you know, pay the mortgage. Lau: Exactly. Anne: That kind of a thing, but it's the thought, right? So this is -- Lau: It's the thought. Anne: -- purpose driven beyond profit, but it doesn't mean that if you're a good business, you cannot create wealth, right? Not just, you cannot make money, wealth in so many ways, right, is that you are contributing to society in a positive manner, as well as making money doing it. And so therein lies the question. So what is my purpose? And have I stayed true to that? Or my purposes, right? And have I stayed true to that? Lau: Yes. To piggyback onto what you just said, one testament to that may be that you are working, you are having a viable business -- take on some charity projects, take on some philanthropic, take on some projects where you're mentoring or maybe you are doing something for visually impaired or what have you so that you can balance it out in your heart and your soul and say, not everything is a paycheck, not everything is an invoice, not everything is how much I can get -- but really get you off that just for a moment to say, oh, this may be another purpose for me that is a slightly higher purpose at times. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: That can feed me in a way that the other jobs may not be able to feed me. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: And kind of balance it that way versus all or nothing. I either work for free or I work for as much as I can get. Anne: Or if it is for a profit redistributing that, right, maybe giving back in some other way. Right? Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: So sharing the wealth, so to speak. But yeah, what a great conversation. Lau: What a great conversation. Anne: I really had some time to think about it. I really enjoyed writing that blog article. It just really led me to think about, what am I here today doing, and how did I start off, and how have I evolved over the years? And I can say, I'm grateful that I'm still true to my original purpose and also my evolved purposes. So I feel like I'm staying on track. It's something that I, I don't take for granted either. So I think we should all take some time and to kind of check deep within and see if we have that purpose and if we're following that purpose. Lau: I love it. And now we can all be like the cleaners. Like we can all be like Windex and 409 and say we're multi-purpose. Anne: Multi-purpose. Lau: We're gonna clean up. But we're multi-purpose. Anne: I love it. All right. Wow. Great stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Great stuff. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to my sponsor, 100voiceswhocare.org. If you wanna find out how you can make a difference, and this can be part of your purpose, go to 100voiceswhocare.org and find out ways that you can give back. Also big shout-out to sponsor ipDTL. I love, love, love ipDTL and networking with BOSSes like Lau. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Everyone's got Imposter Syndrome. But it doesn't mean you're a fraud. In this episode, Anne & Lau dive into why we are so attached to the sound of our voice and how fixating on that can be a barrier to success. Voice is an essential part of how we are perceived, which affects our personal and professional lives. When you listen to yourself critically, it's easy to get lost in technical details. Your voice is your greatest tool, so stop doubting it. It is an instrument and the vehicle for your craft. So Bosses, love your voice. Embrace it. And if you still need some extra pointers to overcome your inner critic and use your voice to the fullest, listen up… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm Anne Ganguzza, your host, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau, hello. Lau: Hello. Hello. Glad to be back as always. Anne: How's your week been, Lau? Lau: Amazing. Busy, amazing, wonderful. Went on vacation. We were talking about this earlier. Went on vacation up to the Berkshires 'cause I'm in New England. Anne: Of course. Lovely. Lau: It was a workcation. Anne: Ah. Lau: Right? I never leave. I never really leave work. Anne: Yes. I try to, but you're right. I don't leave either. Although I will say that I do notify my clients ahead of time that I'm going to be on vacation and may not be as responsive, so we have that. But then there are other opportunities that I make sure that I have my travel gear set and ready to go, so. Lau: Well, you're much better than I am. I don't let anyone know. I pretend as if I'm like still -- Anne: As if you're still working? Lau: -- in my studio. And then I'm in some bathroom somewhere in Lennox, Mass during intermission turning my phone on going, yeah. Okay. So you've got a call back and you've gotta get there, and like I have to turn my phone off. I don't know. I'm not getting reception. I'll talk to you in like an hour and a half. Anne: Oh my God. I love it. Lau: . Anne: So funny. Lau: But you know what? It's our lifestyle businesses, right? Anne: It is. Lau: BOSSes know that's the lifestyle that we live. It's not just a nine to five. It's really what we love, what we do, all the time. Anne: Yeah, yeah. As long as there's a balance. Now speaking of superpowers, I wanted to bring up something this week because as you know, I coach my students, and frequently, and I know that you also are dealing with multiple students as well and people on your roster -- I wanna know if you get this as much as I do. I don't like my voice. I just don't like my voice. And I thought to myself, you know, that's so common actually. I hear that a lot from my students, especially my female students actually that they don't like their voice. And I thought it would be a really interesting discussion to talk about the psychology behind that. And why do you think it is that people don't like their voice? Lau: Gosh, I don't think your podcast is even close to long enough to even answer that. I mean, it could take centuries to answer that. I don't know. I think there's a lot of reasons why. I think first that always comes to my mind is that thing of which got really hot, really, really hot, I'd say in the last couple years, the imposter syndrome became hot and known. It was this unknown thing that really women suffered from, primarily women suffered from. And it was, I think the first one that brought it, believe it or not, that brought it out was Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers put it in her routine. And then Harvard university said, wait a second. Is that a real thing? Let's do studies on it. And then they spent 10 or 15 years doing studies on people who get hit with it. Right? Anne: Well, I think it's absolutely always been a real thing. It just hasn't been talked about, right? Lau: Yes. Oh, very real. Anne: I'm the first person to admit that imposter syndrome hits me still every day. And I always try to turn it around into a good thing where if you have imposter syndrome, it's motivating you to continually grow and excel. But this thing about voices, I'm gonna say, myself, I even went through it myself so that I can identify when a student comes to me and says, ugh, I just don't like my voice. But I always say, remember in the first place, a lot of times, the reason people get into this industry is because someone has said to them that they have a nice voice and that maybe they should consider voiceover as a career. And I've had people that told me that in the beginning, but after I started studying and started really pursuing it as a career and getting work and then falling into the, oh my gosh, am I ever gonna get hired, that kind of a confidence -- oh my God, I must not be good enough, and that imposter syndrome that really kind of hit me, I started to really criticize my voice. And I used to listen to my voice and say, what doesn't sound -- I wanna sound like this person. I want that rasp. My voice does not have a rasp. It just doesn't. And no matter how hard I try to physically create a rasp, it's difficult and it could hurt my vocal cords. So I gave up doing that, but I gave up kind of coveting other people's voices and really started to understand that my voice needed to be embraced, number one, because how would I ever sell my voice if I couldn't embrace it? And the other thing is I think that maybe people spend too much time listening to the sound of their voice, and that I feel might be the biggest barrier to acceptance because, should we really be listening to our voices in terms of technically, how does it sound? I think really as voice actors, right, Lau, you know what I'm gonna say? Right? As actors, we need to be acting and the concentration should not be on how we sound. Lau: That's right. And I know when I record myself, I can't appreciate hearing myself as I'm recording. I oftentimes will not even wear the cans. I won't even wear the headphones because I want to concentrate on the true connection of what I'm doing here. And if I'm hearing myself -- and I was never an air prompter person anyway, so I, I was never in that realm of having to be proficient at hearing myself as I'm delivering language. So I always deliver with headphones off, and I, I suggest to clients, at least for the beginning phase, don't put 'em on because I want you to make an authentic connection in what you're saying and who you're saying it to, who you're speaking to. And that's, you know, acting basics, right? 101. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: But I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of, Anne, talking about I'm not good enough. I won't be accepted. I'm not reaching it. Anne: I don't sound good enough. There's always that. Lau: I think that that's so primal. Anne: Does my voice have what it takes to deliver? No, it's not about your voice. It's about you. Lau: It's about, you. Anne: It's about you. You know what I mean? It's about you and your personality and what it brings to that voice. And I'm, I'm just gonna say about the headphones. Now, when I first began, I was in a construction zone, and I had to wear headphones in my booth to make sure that there were no low vibratory sounds that were coming through. So I totally understand what you're saying about taking the headphones off. But I feel that in all honesty, right, if we have the headphones off, we can still sometimes listen to ourselves. You know what I mean? We're still like, these are amplifying everything that we're saying. So for headphones I'm of the nature that yes, whatever works for people to not be distracted by their own sound. I think that if you're a true actor, you can act with headphones on and with headphones off, so. Lau: Of course, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's really how you train. Anne: It's helpful. Lau: Yeah. How you train yourself, what technique you build, that's repeatable for you that doesn't distract you away from what you're trying to do. And I always say to a client, I say it's ridiculous in the sense that if you went to Kraft macaroni, or you went to Nike shoes or you went to Toyota, would they honestly be thinking -- they meaning the advertising company, the people who are creating and producing scripts -- would they honestly be thinking right now as I deliver this to you, this sucks? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: They may talk about it at their wine party, up in Aspen over the weekend that they don't like the product, but in the moment of pitching it, in the moment of selling it in the moment of connecting to the end user, it is the best thing in the world. Not only is it the best, you can't live without it. You really can't. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And there's some sort of disconnect between the product, that physical inanimate object, that and us, our identity, our physical person, our vocal sound. There's a disconnect that we then become part of that product. We become part of that branding. And so for us to say, I don't know if I'm doing this well, I don't know if I'm good enough. I don't know if, what is in essence saying the product isn't good enough. Anne: Isn't good enough. Lau: The product is subpar, and that's a danger zone for us. We have to be very careful of that because we sell value. We don't wanna sell devalue. We don't wanna devalue our value, and whatever you do privately is something else. Anne: Sure. No, I love how you brought it to the product. Because in reality, remember we are the voice of the product. We are the voice of the company. And no matter what you're doing, even if you're doing, I'm just saying, if you're doing corporate narration, if you're doing explainers, again, you're still working with a product. And if you're not doing that, let's say if you're doing anything else, if you're teaching, right, you're teaching more than likely, right, you become a teacher. And you are teaching either about some product or maybe a concept. And so again, you don't wanna devalue the content that you are speaking of. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And that's such a wonderful example that you brought up. I'm so glad you said that. Lau: Thank you. And you it's interesting, Anne, it seems to be unique to us and our profession, us meaning talent. It seems to be unique quality that we see in many, many people that we don't see quite as much in other industries and other professions. It would be like, ask yourself this, if you do this, if you do this, ask yourself this. Would you appreciate going to a doctor's office? And the doctor comes in and says, I don't know if I know how to listen to your heart. I mean, I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna do it well enough. I mean, what do you think? And you'd be freaked out. You'd go running outta that office. You'd go, I don't want this woman or guy touching me. I -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? If you went to a dentist, and you had to have your tooth drill, like, I don't know if I can, I don't know if you'll like what I do. I'm not sure. I mean, it sounds funny to us, right? Anne: I might make you hurt . Lau: Right? Anne: But you're right. It's so true. Lau: And it doesn't mean either that they're qualified, and it doesn't mean either they're the best at what they do. It just means it is innate within their training, within their experience, within their identity, that this is what they do. This is the product they offer, the value they offer. You're gonna pay for that service and it's as simple as that. Hopefully you won't complain about it. . Right? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But it's so unique unto us is to take it so personalized and to say, but do you approve of me, but do you like me? So going back to your original question a half an hour ago, like what is the psychology of this whole thing? I think it does really start with us as a human being, as a person. Like where is our self-esteem? Where is our level of confidence? Do we feel good in our own skin? Do we feel ashamed or humiliated in honest connection? I mean, ask yourself these questions as a human being in the world and then try to work with it. If the answer is yes, I have a struggle with this, I have a problem with this, then work with it. Don't work against it. Don't shove it under the rug because it's gonna come out out in your next audition. It's gonna come out in your next reach out. Anne: And I think, honestly, it's again, I love how you just brought it down to that level, but it's also remember you're honoring the copy. The copy has been crafted by someone who has put a lot of thought into it, for the most part we think, right? And that there is a message that needs to be delivered. And you need to communicate that message effectively. Now Lau, when we talk back and forth, I'm certainly not thinking to myself, do I sound okay when I talk to Lau? Lau: It's funny to think that, isn't it? Anne: Right? Does my voice sound -- maybe I should talk to Lau like this. And no, because that just, it's not bringing ourselves. It's not bringing who we are, and you know, we say it over and over again. Bring yourself to the party. Right? Well, your voice and yourself, your voice is not mutually exclusive from yourself. The way you're treating it, if you're listening to it saying it does not sound good enough, then that's what you are essentially doing. You are splitting apart the voice from who you are. And I think ultimately, yeah, you have to be the one that can bring yourself to the party. When we connect as human beings, that's what I care about. I don't care, Lau, when you talk to me, what you sound like, I care about what you're saying to me and what it means to me. And I think by trying to just bring it back onto ourselves where most people might think it's an insecurity thing -- in reality, when you think too much about how you sound, it becomes more of a vanity thing or an egotistical thing, where you're not thinking about the client. You're not thinking about the product or the copy that you should be honoring. You are thinking more about what you sound like on top of that copy. And that's not where your voice needs to be. Your voice needs to be in the act, in the action of delivering that copy to the best of your ability and the most effectively on behalf of that client. Lau: I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about the messaging. We use the fancy schmancy term story and storytelling, but storytelling is about the messenger. What message is being delivered? And what is that stake here? What is the value to the audience of that message? Is it gonna fix their life, fix their health? You know, help them find a pet, and, and help them educate their child, or have a better quality health regimen? It's always something in there for the end user that will potentially better their life. Now I'm not saying that that is, that's not a truism. It doesn't actually do it all the time. I'm saying that that's the claim that is being made in the message. And if you lose the message, you lose the claim. And that is a problem. That can be a real problem. Anne: You say the word value, and that is so important. The value to the client. It's not your value. It's the value that you are bringing to the client. So it goes from a place of how can I help you, the client, not how can I sound beautiful when I say these words? It's how can I help you? And the place has to come from within you and not from just the lips and outward because sometimes when we're listening to what we sound like, that's all we can concentrate on. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And there's no story, there's no message. There's no emotion. There's no point of view. Lau: Exactly. And you brought up a great point there. You know, a number of the roles -- I call it roles, theatrical roles -- but a number of the, the voicing parts that we see in scripts now are not always clean, what we call clean or polished. Sometimes they're dirty sounding. Sometimes they're heavy sounding. Sometimes they're sad. There's a lot of doleful scripts. We see a lot of heavily poetic and weighted scripts about things that are thoughtful or lugubrious, or, you know, you've gotta hit a lot of different kinds of feelings and tones now in scripts that are not always pretty. They're not always perfect. And they're not always lovely sounding. Sometimes they're gritty and gravely and that kind of thing. So that to me reflects life as well. We don't always sound good in life. We don't always -- Anne: Imperfect. Lau: -- say the right thing. Yeah. We're not always PC or whatever. We're just not always right. So the idea of wanting to fix myself all the time, I need to be right. I can't be wrong. Did I get it right, is wrong because there is no right. It's really just according to the vision of the listener, who the listener is and what the messaging is that gives them the value that they're looking for. Anne: Yeah. Imperfect is actually perfect. Lau: It is. Anne: I really believe that. And I think because that connects to people on a very raw and real level, and that's where you get a lot of the casting specs say, make it conversational, make it natural as if you're talking to your friends, make it real. And that is probably the hardest thing for us to do as voice actors. And I think we spend our careers honing that skill of being a better actor and being more real and authentic. And like you said, their scripts are all over the place. Sometimes they're sad and doleful, and we need to be able to be in that moment and create those scenes and react to those scenes. And that is not always a pretty sound. I think one of my favorite corporate narrations that I always play from when I'm presenting corporate narration is a voice actress who, her voice cracks. And it's not a perfect sound. And I think a lot of my students, they feel like they have to be articulate, and I'm like, we're not articulate in the real world. As long as you can understand what I'm saying, contrary to popular belief, you do not need to be articulate because when you're too articulate, then it becomes something that is difficult to listen to. Lau: That's exactly right. And this idea of perfection and this idea of polished is just not where we wanna go oftentimes. It just, in fact, it's the anti that now, it's the opposite of that now. It's like, what's our largest generation now? Our largest generation is millennials in the United States. And so we wanna emulate the demographic to get an empathy factor that, oh, this is me. This sounds like me. This person feels the way I feel. They understand me. Well, I can't sound like that in order to get that feeling, right? It's a more colloquial, more chill, more like laid back, kind of feel to it. And that's hard. I think for the over 40 crowd, like my generation generation Xeer, it's really hard to say, wait a second. What happened to all of our theater acting background? What happened to all of our speech and rhetoric? What happened to, well, it's there, you have to trust it's there, but it's not always applicable to what we're doing in the script. You know what I like to do? Anne, I like to say, change the word conversational and natural, which is throws people oftentimes -- change it to environmental, change it to contextual, because we wanna hear you being somewhere. We wanna hear you involved in something. Anne: Oh I agree with that. Lau: It's not like sound this way. . Anne: Sure. And besides that, I'm always adding in, I wanna hear movement. I wanna hear movement in the scene. It's not you in a monologue. There's so many people that will do the work and say, okay, I'm Anne, I'm talking to my friend Lau, and we're in the kitchen. And they do all that setup work. And then all they do is read the words. And it becomes a monologue to them. Even if they start off talking to Lau, right, they tend to go off, and then they're speaking into the air. And I'm like, if you were on a stage and you were interacting with someone, like you should be with the listener, right, interacting, you would not be necessarily going off on a monologue, 'cause that would be impolite, right? You know, you need to let them in on the conversation. You need to check in on them once in a while. And also when you do that, if you can move in the scene, that makes your audition or your read a whole lot more impactful, I think, than just standing in the same place. Because on a stage you wouldn't stand in the same place typically for too long, right? You'd have some movement. And so that translates to so many things. Right? In the middle of the script, stop and take a look. And where are you? What happened in the scene? Did it change? Did you stand up? Did you walk across the room? Did you look at Lau and see if Lau is shaking her head in agreement or does she have a question? And so I think if you can really set those scenes up, even in something that is written very like dry, and I see this all the time in, in narration scripts, you wanna make sure that that's a more engaging script. You wanna bring that script to life. Well, how are you gonna do that when you're just standing there in the same spot and the energy is only coming out of your lips? Lau: Exactly. It's unnatural. Anne: It's unnatural. We need energy in our hands and our body movement in the scene changes. That I think is just, is so important to bring that to life. Lau: It's, it's so important. And for those folks who are listening in, who have actor training and have trained under the discipline of Sanford Meisner, Meisner's work was based in the concept that all we're asking you to do is act natural under purely unnatural circumstances. So it's, it's really okay. I'm tricking my brain into thinking this is real, even though I know it's not real, whether you're in a theater or a vocal booth or in front of a camera, it couldn't be further from real. Right? But there has to be a piece of you psychologically that stays alive that says I am doing the kind of work that I'm trained to do, that I want to be doing, that I'm enjoying doing. And I give myself permission to fall, to jump, to fail, to make mistakes, to do what real people do in real time. This idea of like, oh, I shouldn't mess up, I shouldn't make a mistake, I should get it right the first or second time -- it's not a natural way to think because natural terms in nature is real time for us. And in real time, we make tons of mistakes and stammer and we stutter and we forget information. Right? Anyone who loves SNL, love that show loved it because of all the mistakes they made. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were the funniest. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were hilarious. Right? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: It's like, you know, we always say, how do you determine the difference between an amateur and a professional? And it's easy. They both make mistakes and quite oftentimes a lot, but the amateur will fall apart. They'll melt down. They won't be able to function. The professional will do a little this and a little of that. Sorry about that. And then move on and use it, use it. Anne: People are so forgiving. They really are. And again, like I said, if all you're thinking about is what you're sounding like and having that perfect voice, and then scrutinizing and, and hating yourself because you don't sound a particular way, think again. Because I was on stage too a long time ago, but also when I used to teach in front of students, right, I would get so excited -- like I was always told that I was a great teacher because I was so excited about the stuff that I was saying. Right? I was passionate. I was enthusiastic. I wanted to share. And that was what made me a good teacher. And I oftentimes would stand up in front of the class. My brain would be going 100 miles an hour, but what came outta my mouth would be gobbledygook sometimes. But they forgave me. I did not speak perfectly. Sometimes I like, oh, wait a minute. I forgot something. So imperfect. I had students who were so much more aligned with me and who really listened to me because I was imperfect. And I was able to admit that and be honest with them. And I never once tried to say, oh, I know more than you. I just wanted to inspire and motivate. Lau: Right. Right. Anne: And that is something I take behind the mic with me. No matter what genre I'm doing specifically though, e-learning, absolutely. I give my heart. Because that is, that is what people connect with. Lau: Yes, absolutely. Anne: But I cannot afford to listen to what I sound like. Or even if I go there a little bit when I'm editing -- so sometimes when I edit, yeah. I get a little tired of my voice. But then again, that's listening to myself and being nitpicking to get rid of breaths and stuff like that. And then it's just becomes tiring because I've been doing it for three hours. So that's different than not liking the way your voice sounds. And so I think you have to just have faith in the fact that you are in this industry, people are hiring you and paying you money for your voice. And that is giving you the validation that, you know what, you're probably doing a pretty good job. Otherwise you may not make any money. You not be able to do that. So. Lau: If you're not being invited back, and you have no bookings, and no one's working with you, then you'll say, oh, I have to evaluate this, what's going on. But you know, you have to psychologically be okay with living in the world of imperfection. You have to live -- certainly in the technical world. It's a tech glitch a minute. You have to be okay with living in the world of mistakes and the mar, the scar. Like the scar makes us interesting. Like, I don't want you to cover it up. I don't want you to laser it off. I don't want you to Photoshop it. I wanna see it. It's interesting to me. It's like your experience, you know? Anne: It's that whole filter thing that's going on now, right? In social media, like are you prettier with the filter or without the filter? Guess what? You're pretty without the filter, you're pretty just as you are. Lau: And you have to measure, you have to see, how am I measuring pretty? Like, what is my measurement for that? How deep do I go with that layer? And I'd like to think as we age and we get a little older and more experienced, we go deeper, deeper, deeper below the surface of the skin. We go like really deep and say, wow. There's a lot of beauty in there that I can bring out that is not aesthetically beautiful. But that, like, I go back to Shakespeare, 'cause I think Shakespeare is everything, and the characters, especially the female characters, but the male characters as well, some of them are really dirty and gritty and ugly and -- but you can't play them until like you're 40 and you understand a little bit about life. You understand a little bit about the grit of experience. Maybe God forbid, you've lost a child. Maybe you've gotten divorced. Maybe you've lost money and then gotten money back. Like these things really can become beautiful lessons and stories in our life that we can share and message versus hide and cover. And I like to think of scripts and copy in that way. It's like, if you're a mom or you took time off, let's say you took 20 years off and you're coming back, don't hide who you are. Don't hide your history. Bring your history to the table 'cause psychologically that's gonna give you a more authentic read in what you're doing potentially. Anne: Yeah. And I'm also gonna say not to give the read that you think people expect of you. Again, what makes us interesting is our imperfections and our flaws. And so I highly, highly encourage and, and recommend BOSSes that you look beyond, like you were saying, beyond the surface, hashtag no filter. Right guys? Like we want those reads. We want those reads that are real and raw and don't have the pretty sound filter put on there. We should have a, a hashtag for that in social media for voiceover, hashtag no pretty voice or -- Lau: That's -- I love that. Anne: You know what I mean? Lau: I love that. And check, we do checks all the time. Check your psychology at the door. Check it. Like not over-analyze. You know, analysis can be paralysis, but, but really check it like, am I okay with not being perfect? And am I also okay with -- oh, here's another one, Anne. Not thinking I'm perfect. Because we don't wanna work with people that are so vain and so arrogant. And so like I did my takes. I'm all done. And if you don't like it, it's too bad. I wanna work with someone who they're 50, 60, 70, 80 years old. And they're like, I'm learning still. I'm exploring. I wanna develop. Can you share something with me? I'm not like done. I'm not finished. I'm not like a final product myself. You know, I'm a work in progress. Anne: Yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us really should think that way anyway. No matter what stage we're at. Right? Always something to learn. Lau: Well, I think it always stops you. It stops your progress and what you could potentially learn and become when you just think that you have it all. You got it all down pat and it's polished and you know it. And that's a big question I get too in coaching, Anne, is like, should I go after this, Lau? Should I go after that? And I said, well, I don't know if you should go after it. Ask yourself the question authentically. How do you feel about it? How are you connecting with it? Where is your voice right now? I mean, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the questions are really, how do I wanna develop my vocabulary right of knowledge? Anne: How should I go after this? Or let's make a plan to go after this. And I think if the desire is there, hey, it's all part of the journey too. I'm a firm believer that, you know what? I would say to myself, well, I've never gone after animation because I don't know, for me right now, the passion is not necessarily in characters. But I'll tell you what, I'm a character in everything that I do. And I'm a character in medical narration. I am a character in corporate narration. I'm a character in commercial, and it just may not be as animated or cartoon-like, but absolutely we are all actors. We are all characters. Lau: And these days, you know in character work a lot of times, you know, in some of the largest scripts that we see coming through for Pixar and Disney -- Anne: It's real. Lau: They just want real sounds. They want real VO. They don't even want character voices. They make a big note in bold, no character voices. And they said like the leads, these are the leads because we had, you know, A-List Hollywood actors playing these leads. So we wanted to hear who Ray Romano really is, who Tom Cruz really is, who Queen Latifah really is. So that's kind of trickled down, I think in a nice way to the larger population where character now means like, well, who are you? What's the authentic sound you make? That we -- we'll consider that a character. Anne: Absolutely. I love this conversation. Lau: It's inspiring. It really is. Anne: So BOSSes out there, love your voice. Embrace it. Be real. Absolutely. All right. So Lau, I am so excited we had this conversation. I can't wait to have another conversation with you next week. So BOSSes out there, if you would like to make an impact and contribute to the communities that give back to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. It allows me and Lau to connect with you. BOSSes out there, find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions can be as nerve wracking as a performance, but the best way to come out on top is to be prepared. Anne & Lau are audition experts. When you break it down, an audition is a sample of your performance, and bosses, we know you know how to perform! The best way to start an audition is with copy you feel confident reading and that showcases your acting chops. Making genuine connections with the other actors in the space and casting directors is what keeps you on their mind long after the read ends. Confidence goes a long way in audition settings. Do not shy away from live auditions, and having your 10 favorite scripts on hand will make the impromptu auditions feel more manageable. Want to learn more? Tune in for the full scoop… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back the one and only Lau Lapides to the show. Thank you, Lau, for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Lau: I'm thrilled to be here as always, thrilled to be here, Anne. Anne: Well, Lau, it's been a week. Lau: And I feel like it's been a month with how much our -- how busy our lives are, right, Anne? Anne: I know, right? Lau: I mean, it's like so much. Anne: But this week you were a part of me besides the podcast, besides the podcast. So I'm very excited to be working with you as an agent. And so you did something that I have never experienced before. You called me into a last minute audition. And I said, oh, okay. I didn't have any script. You called me into a Zoom room. And I was like, okay, is that gonna just be me and the casting director? Oh, that's so lovely for Lau to think of me like that. I'm really excited. Okay. Sure. So I joined the Zoom session and there were like, whoa, quite a few people on there. And I didn't have a script. I didn't know what was gonna go on, what was happening. Let's talk about this audition that you called me into and your process for these things. Lau: You were such a good sport. 'Cause you could have said no, I know it's not in your vocabulary to say no, but -- Anne: It's so true. Lau: -- you could have. It would've been totally fine if you said no, but I was really pleasantly surprised to see that not only you, but everyone in that room said yes to coming in the room. Now I'll set it up for you since today we're talking about auditions. This was a little bit, I would call it unorthodox. It was a little bit unorthodox the way we set this up, but that's kind of my middle name and I'm alright with that. I go with that 'cause I like to have a little fire, a little fire in life. So the premise of this audition was that our friend and producer coming in from Switzerland, Lamar Hawkings -- amazing man, amazing, who is very, very close friends with my colleague Joanne Yarrow that I work with at my studio -- invited him in to say, hey, you are doing amazing projects. I mean my friend, Joanne -- who I have to introduce you to, she's fabulous -- she's the voice now the American voice, of La Occitane campaign that he handles. And so I'll send you that. It's awesome. So I'm like, Ooh, we have a wonderful agency, MCVO. We have a wonderful membership base at the studio, talent inner circle. Why don't I invite some of our really great people with great voices to come in and do a private audition for Lamar? And he was completely up for it. He said, I would love that, Lau. I'm looking for new talent. I'm doing a new animation soon. I'm doing commercial campaigns. I'm doing this. And that. He's very, very busy. He's in Switzerland, but he's actually from the states, originally from Texas. And I said, great, let's do it. So we set it up for yesterday. Now here's the thing. A bunch of the people knew that the audition were coming because they were in the studio base, the talent inner circle studio base and had RSVPed that, yes, I want to attend this. I'm able to, I've been screened. I'm accepted in, and I'm coming in. Great. But then I had a number of open slots that I said, I've got to get more MCVO people knowing about this and coming in because this is a legit audition, and it's a live audition. It's something I really love to do and love to host. Anne: That was so different for me. I mean, I felt like I traveled into LA and went to an in-person audition again almost. Lau: Exactly. That's exactly what happened. And fun fact from the background, 'cause no one ever sees what's going on in the background, I was on vacation. I was up in the Berkshires. Like literally I'm at lunch with my husband, and I'm texting like a wild woman. He said, what are you doing? I said, you know, I'm working. It's always a work vacation for me, a workcation. I said, I'm getting more talent to come in and know about this audition, who don't know, from MCVO, and I'm texting you, and I'm texting Jay Michael Collins, and I'm texting Terrell, and I'm texting Carol, and I'm texting this one, and I'm texting Mike Pollock. And all of a sudden, all these people are saying yes and jumping in, and I didn't even have time to tell them what it was. I didn't even have time to say anything. Anne: That was absolutely the thing. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. And I'll admit to you, BOSSes out there, I got in the room and I didn't have copy. And I thought, am I missing something? And thank goodness that Lau, you gave me a little bit of information and said grab some commercial copy or we have some. When I got in there, I didn't see it. Maybe it was there and I just didn't know where to look. So I got off and I thought, oh, well that must look horrible. . Lau: No, not at all. Anne: I went to go grab copy. And then I came back in and then it was like, what two people left to go? So I made it just in time. Lau: And then Carol Alfred, who is facilitating, right, one of our coaches, she's texting me, ah, Anne Ganguzza is on. And then she goes, she left. What she left? Where'd she go? And I'm like, Anne, where are you? I thought maybe you were having a technical issue or you had to go and do something. Anne: I went to go find some copy because I didn't wanna be called on and then say, I don't have copy. You know what I mean? So I went to go grab some. Lau: Right. And now, you know, very rarely when we do this kind of audition, we always have copy on hand for cold reads. I know some talent don't prefer to do a cold read. So we say, we'll bring something you wanna bring that shows you off, but. Anne: I was ice cold I was ice cold, but I said to myself, okay -- and BOSSes, listen, when your agent asks you to come in and audition, it's a sign that they believe in you, number one. And that they would not have asked you to come into an audition if they did not feel that you were worthy of doing an audition. And there was no way that I was going to disappoint my agent. Lau: Oh, and I appreciated that so much. And some of the others that came in, it was hilarious. I'm gonna save some of the texts that were like, hey Lau. Uh, that was great. What was that? Where was it? Anne: Yeah, exactly. What just happened? Lau: What happened? It was, you were like, you were in some matrix. There was, there was some vortex that came through like a storm, but I gotta tell you, and this is good for your listeners to hear, every single person who came in that thought they were unprepared or didn't have copy or weren't sure what they were doing did a fantastic job. And it just reminded me what pros we all are when we get in a room. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We have passion. We love what we're doing. There's this super connected quality of being in a room with other talent, 'cause that's unexpected as well to be in a room with other talent like that. Anne: I was gonna say absolutely. One of the other things was, oh my God. And everybody else is listening to me. It's not just the agent, the casting director. It is like 50 people in the room. I don't know how many people were in the room, but there were more than one. There was quite a few people listening. And I happened to just come in really quickly with J. Michael Collins who was reading. And then that's when I said, I don't have that copy. And so I skedaddled outta there. And fortunately you had said, just grab any copy. And I said, okay. So I went and I grabbed some copy and it was, my read was ice cold. But again, like I said, BOSSe so important to know that when your agent gives you an audition, it's because they have the faith in you that you're gonna be able to execute. And I think that that is the one thing that really saved me. And I will admit to you, BOSSes, when you're thrown into a situation like that and you're not quite sure what's happening, you're kind of running on adrenaline, and it's a little scary, I'm just gonna say, not knowing what's happening. But I think it was a wonderful lesson for me, even as long as I've been in this industry, just to trust in your agent, trust in yourself, have faith in the process and just go forth and execute. And what's the worst that can happen? I mean, well, I thought of a billion things like, I was like, when I was done, I was like, I'm not quite sure how that went, but he said, nice job. So I'm okay with that. Lau: Yeah. And I gotta tell you, Anne, that enabled me to what I debrief with him -- we're debriefing on Tuesday -- I can now go down the list and say, do you remember this person? You remember this? You had a visual, not only in sound, you had a visual. You had more than one read on a lot of people as well. you had a character read, you had a commercial read, this, that. And to be able to really discuss the performances for particular projects that he's working on -- so it's never just like this one hit wonder and go. It's always like, Ooh, I like the quality of this person, that person. Can I call them back? And I see, hear their demo? Can I, whatever; it's just like an introduction to you. Anne: And that I think is brilliant in reality, because like you have introduced your roster to a potential client and the visual, yes. Now, you know, of course I'm sure there's a bunch of people in their studios going, well, this is an audition over Zoom. And then the engineers in there will be going, I don't know if Zoom is the best quality, but honestly I think that any good casting director is gonna know from your performance, whether it's in your studio or through Zoom or whatever, they're gonna understand. And they're gonna know a good performance when they see one. Lau: Absolutely. And this particular producer, from what I know of his background, well, he has a very rich history of live performance and theater and media. Anne: And that aligns with it. Lau: He gets it. He gets that, because I had people who were in cars and bathrooms, in their workstation. They were, I mean they were coming in from everywhere. So his business brain, I'm sure was saying, oh, they're busy people. They're not just sitting in a spot waiting for me. They're working, they're running, they're traveling, they're on vacation. They're this or that. I'm thankful that they took the time to come in so I could see their work for projects. Anne: And that means a lot too, I'm quite sure. And especially again, like we're always trying to make in auditions -- and I love this episode because this is becoming so much more than just a normal audition type of episode, where we give you the tips and the tricks -- because the experience of this one was so different, and it really, I think can teach us how to make ourselves memorable in a multitude of ways, not just knowing the conditions, right, of the audition. Number one, you called us in cold or you called certain people in cold, and that can resonate well with whoever's listening for that potential client. And also again, there's that visual, and it is like the in person auditions that -- God, I used to go in and it was great. I'd see everybody in the lobby. Now the difference is that I would audition in front of just, you know, it was just me. And it wouldn't be everybody else listening to my auditions. So that added a whole other level to -- it was almost like a workshop. But in reality, if you tend to get nervous in these experiences that could even potentially make you more nervous. So again, having the ability and the privilege to be able to make that kind of impression on a potential client, I think is wonderful. And Lau, you're one of the few people I know that do this. And so I think it's a wonderful thing, even though I had no idea what it was when I was doing it, but , but now I know. Lau: Do we ever, right? Anne: But now I know. Lau: Therein lies the educational value when we talk about professional development is it really one audition or is it as you called it, Anne, an opportunity to build a relationship with a wonderful producer, who's gonna have a lifetime of stuff. That's I think it's the latter, really. It's never just one audition for one thing. It's always like, hey, you're cool. You're a cool, dude. You're a cool dudette. I like you. Right? I like your vibe. And that's where if I were to say to your listeners and also to my audience that came in, many of which were coming in from the studio membership, we're at different stages of the game. I would say one of the things I want you to really consider and remember is that when a producer meets you live, they wanna see a little bit of who you are. They wanna catch your personality and your energy and your persona a little bit. So especially him, especially Lamar. So don't be afraid -- you don't wanna take up a ton of time, but don't be afraid to just chill a little bit and have a little bit of that conversational feel to what you're doing, because you're really meeting a real person in real time. It's a great opportunity for them to know a little piece of your actual personality versus I'm just a voiceover talent and here's my read. No, I'm Anne, I'm Lau. I'm J, and this is what I'm doing and I'm, I'm traveling and I'm whatever, that's cool. People like that. It's the goal of how do I make you feel? Am I gonna make you feel comfortable or am I gonna make you feel uncomfortable? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like the fact that you had the ability for everyone to kind of listen to everybody else's auditions. I, at the time though, because I was hunting down copy, and then I literally had another session that was coming up like after five minutes, I couldn't stay for a long time, but what I did stay for, I really enjoyed. And I heard people doing all different types of copy, and I thought, wow, this is really kind of cool. It felt to me like a combination of a showcase and an audition, an in-person audition. Lau: That's what it turned into that's and if you want to, I'm happy to send you the replay because we record those sessions and we hold those for archival purposes. If you want it -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- you could do the whole thing. It lasted about, I wanna say two hours, like a solid two hours. Anne: Wow. Lau: And we had a rotation of people coming in and out, which was amazing. I think we landed on about 30 people with the folks -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: -- who couldn't come, couldn't make it, no showed, new people jumping in, 30, like yourself, some of the country's top talent were there. And I was like, oh my God. We were like representing the country's top talent. I was so proud, so proud of everyone and not just the talent for what they delivered, but the kind of people that came in the room and were kind to him. No one pulled a fit. No one was a diva. No one was making excuses. That's all stuff, when we talk about auditioning, that you wanna steer clear of is like rule number one, I didn't wanna land my problems onto you. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Anyone who's had theater training knows that they teach you in conservatory, leave your trash at the door, right? Don't take it into the workspace. Don't worry. It'll be there when you leave; you can take it with you when you go out, you know, but try not to bring your stuff in with you because you wanna come in as an open slate, a pallet of possibilities. You know, we had talked about solving a problem, filling a need, but it's more than that. It's like, does this person have likability factor? Anne: Sure, sure, absolutely. Lau: You know, would I wanna hang out with them? Anne: And you know, what's so interesting is one of the reasons a lot of people get into voiceover is because they wanna almost like hide behind the microphone and not necessarily show who they are or show their face. And so this kind of just threw that on its side. Lau: And that was great. Anne: Yeah. And that again gives such a good impression, I think, just gives it a whole different dimension to the audition so it's not just the voice, but also the, the person and the personality. And I'm the biggest fan of -- look, people wanna connect with people and not just a logo or a voice. And I really feel that that is, is effective in our profession, that if we can connect with our clients as people, that really, really does a lot to, I think, really secure and, and enhance and, and make us memorable to one another. Lau: It's huge, Anne. I'm so glad you brought that up, the visibility factor, because I could have easily said, hey, take your visuals out. All I need to see is your name or your picture, whatever. Just voiceover's fine. Get people off the hook so they don't have to put on the makeup and the lipstick, but I didn't want that. I wanted them to have the ability, and many of them wanted to come on to be seen as people, and also to see the diversity of our crowd, like our people were coming in literally from all over the world, and everyone had a different look, a different age, a different feel, a different background. I think that's important in terms of having cultivating a community that is both educational and professional level. I just think it enriched everyone else to see the level of talent that was there, that the bar was very high. Age range ranged from like teens to probably 70, and every kind of background. And I think that's very inspirational for people to feel like I'm included. This is inclusive. Like I don't have to sound or look or be someone else. I'm me. And that's who I am. Anne: Right. Correct. Lau: And I think everyone did a fairly accurate job as to their brand, their quality because they felt as comfortable as they could feel in a room full of great people. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well that was it too. I mean, the fact is, is that I think it was a wonderful experience. Even if let's say I never get cast, the fact that I had the experience for just introducing myself to a potential client in this way has given me more, I'm gonna say confidence and really more confidence in terms of, well, auditions can be anything. Right? Be prepared. It's almost like, oh, I did a quick improv session there. So, you know? Lau: Exactly. And I think, I think COVID changed it to some degree where you don't have to be in an office. You don't have to be in someone else's studio. Your studio is the world now. It's really the world. You could be in your car. You could be in a bathroom. You could be anywhere potentially meeting someone, recording, whatever, the possibilities are endless. It takes me back to even before COVID, Anne, when, when we saw interviews like corporate interviews start to happen in Starbucks. That was one of the big coffee shops that I hear someone behind me, oh, they're having an interview. I'm gonna be quiet. That was a new thing. I don't know when that started. I wanna say maybe 10 years ago or something, that was a new industry standard that you didn't need to be in an office to have an interview. You could have an interview at Starbucks, and it's now kind of the same for us. Like we could do an audition anywhere. We could be in the mountains and do an audition, which is exciting to me. Anne: Yeah. I really love the additional opportunity to connect. So let me ask you a question then. So this is not the first one that you've done or is it the first one that you've done, first audition like this? Lau: Live? Anne: Yeah, live. Lau: In this way? Anne: Yes. Lau: I have done a number of these before. Not recently. This is the first one I've done recently with someone of this caliber in terms of a producer coming in from Europe, someone that I have the inside scoop on who's producing particular campaigns that I'm interested in and animations that I'm interested in for the agency, getting into that genre, that field. And I like it. I mean, I just personally, as Lau, just as a person, I yearn for that improv energy. I yearn for that feeling of like, yeah, let's just meet. All right, a number of people know, they're RSVPing, they're coming in. But then others may not know; they're coming in now. It's like real life. It's like a party, right? You invite your guest list. but then the guests may bring someone, the guests may invite someone else, da, da, da. It's like an authentic experience of what happens in real life when people are coming together, and they're meeting, and they're showcasing their work. So when we talk about showcases, it's not all premeditated ABC. It's like life networking is life. You don't know who you're gonna sit next to on the plane. You don't know who you're gonna be next to in the elevator. You don't -- and I would say, be careful, ladies and gentlemen, when you go in the restrooms, like be careful what you say, be careful what you do because your whole world is your oyster now for meeting producers and producers can also be mom and pop shops, people who are producing their own podcasts, what have you. You wanna always treat everyone respectfully and equally as the stars that they are in their own world, because you may be collaborating and working with them. Anne: Yeah. Good advice. What other tips would you have then in terms of not just this type of audition, but auditions in general that you've seen? Because you certainly are outside the box I think when it comes to the opportunities that you're affording people, which is a wonderful thing. Lau: Thank you so much, thank you. I would say, and, and just thinking back on that experience, some of the things that I would want to change and shift for some of the talent coming through. One is, and this is like an actor's rule, always have material that is great for you, that you love and feel comfortable with ready to go. It's like, whatever you wanna call it, your demo material, your portfolio material, whatever. Have your strong suits ready to go. And it might even be an audition or two that came in last week that you did a great job. It might be a recent booking. You just have to make sure of course you either have permission to use the script or it's in house. It's not gonna be used for commercial purposes. Or just re-craft it enough so that it becomes your own and you know, it's yours. It's good. It's something you feel comfortable doing. It's where your suit lies. I would have that ready to go. And I would have at least a half, a dozen, 30-second pieces ready to go for something live when it happens. It may happen rarely. But when it happens, it happens. Anne: Yeah. That's such good advice because I literally, like I mentioned, I didn't have it. I went and grabbed something that I -- thankfully I have a large pool of copy that, you know, because I work with, with people with copy. So thankfully, and I found something that I was comfortable with. So that's really wonderful advice. Now I'm gonna make sure that I have a few pieces set aside for if that were to happen again, absolutely. Any other tips? Lau: Yeah. And I have another tip too, and this is like the actor in you. So when we talk to VOs, we say, do you consider yourself an actor? Surprisingly many VOs will say, I'm not really an actor. It's not really what I do. I voiced this. That's what I do. I always like to use the word actor because I don't necessarily mean just acting values in the character. I mean, in your life. So like all the world's a stage, right? You're acting like a pro, you're acting like a coach. You're acting like a producer. You're acting in those role like just like an acting chair of a department or, you know, an acting politician, how we would use that term. So you're acting, so don't forget your actor values. What I mean is like some of the folks that came into the room, I noticed they had to let you know that they were in a rush, or they just stole a break, or they barely made it because they couldn't get outta work, whatever. Let that go, like play the role. The role is I'm coming into this session, and I'm totally ready for this session. And I don't know what's going on in the background. There's a bunch of chaos in the background. I don't know what's going on in the background. I'm acting as the professional in this moment, knowing I'm only gonna be here for how however long I'm here. And then I go back to -- remember, I said, leave your stuff at the door? I'm gonna go back to that. That's hard for people to do, Anne. I think that there's this confessional thing in people that they feel the need to tell you the truth about everything. They wanna tell you how difficult their day was or that their tire has gone down. And I barely made it here, and oh my God, my kid and the baby sitter didn't show up. And I always say, leave it at the door because it's not pertinent to the people that are bringing you in. It's just a waste of time, really, for them. You and I talk about energy a lot, karma, like stars aligning. I really do believe in that. I think things happen for a reason. And I don't want you meaning, not you, but the listener, I don't want you guys to ruin your karma by sticking wrenches in it of things that are happening, whether they're your choice or whether they're just happening to you -- don't bring it into the space because it can't do anything positive for your audition or for your exchange in the rapport building. It just can't. It's like an obstacle that you're putting in the way, and you're qualifying something and using it as an excuse. And you don't wanna fall into the victimization compartment. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: You never wanna fall into that. You wanna fall into the place where it's like, hey, I'm gonna bring you what you need. In fact, I could hire you. In fact, I could hire people for you. In fact, I could do this for you. You wanna be that person that they come to to fix the problem. They don't wanna be the person who creates problems that they don't have, If that makes sense. Anne: Oh, that's wonderful advice. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. So I would leave that. I would leave that outside of the room, and then one more thing. as the tech queens that we are, tech meaning coaching tech, I want that warm up. Some of the folks didn't warm up, and I could tell exactly who they were, who just did not do the vocal warmup because I know the quality of the reads that they could typically do, and they were rushing into it. Whereas others came in, they were already in a session. They were already recording. They were already vocally warmed up. They were ready to go. I could tell the difference. I don't know if you could tell the difference. I could tell the difference. Anne: I could tell the people who were absolutely ready. You know what I mean? And were like, bam, they had their material and they just -- Lau: They were right there. Anne: -- they just executed. Yep. yep. So yep. I could tell. Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that readiness that's like being on the bench, you know, as a sports player in the game -- Anne: You're ready to go. Lau: -- you're not in the game yet. You're really not there, but you're visible to the crowd. You're on TV. You're getting ready to get selected. And there's that state of readiness that you have to have so when they look at you, it's like, boom, I'm in the game. I'm ready. There is no transition time that you should need to go through. It really should just be there, present, and delivered. And that's hard. It's -- I make it sound easy. It's not it's transitions like executive functioning skill transitions a lot of people find difficult in life, is how do I pivot from this, to this? To this, to this, without any clutter in the middle of it? Anne: Yeah. I do have a question. Something that I thought, just because again, I wasn't there for the entire time, but I did hear people slating, which I think is fine, but people were slating with other talent agencies as well. And I wasn't quite sure about that. I thought why -- you invited me in, so I wasn't gonna necessarily say what other talent agencies were representing me. Oh, okay. So I was really thrown by that one and I thought should I say other talent agencies that represent me when you invited me in so generously and I just said my name? For me, it didn't seem right. But what are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. And, and now, you know, in retrospect, yeah, for this one, there was no right or wrong. It was totally clean, totally open and that would be the protocol, you're right. That would be the actual protocol because there was an educational value to this workshop, I allowed and wanted to people to slate what they have on their plate to have a high ethos, to show a high ethos for themselves. And because we're not exclusive anyway. We're freelance. But I hear you. Anne: Well, because of the invite, it was just, for me, it was like, well, I could say other, and to be honest with you, I just, that threw me. And so I just said my name, 'cause I wanted to be respectful of you who invited me in as an agent. So. Lau: And actually just post, just for listeners to know behind the scenes, 'cause they would never know this or see this, when we have a meeting and we debrief, and we talk about talent behind their backs, in a nice way, I'll make it clear that if he wants to move forward with anyone, he would do it through MCVO. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Lau: He would. It would be only in the case of like they're not with MCVO. They're exclusive with someone else. I handpick them to come in. Okay. That's fine. Other than that, everyone's with MCVO or in the tick membership. And so I'm like, so we're kind of representing everyone here. So he would use us as the agent and as the liaison to help with the step by step of everything, if he wanted to really call someone back. Anne: Yeah. Then I would say, just my contribution to this episode would be if you are in that position and your live slating and, and auditioning, I would say respectfully with the agent that invited you to that, you should at least have that agency unless it's been otherwise disclosed that you can mention other agencies that you are represented by. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Just my thoughts on that. Wow. Well, I wanna say thank you, Lau, for that experience. It's always a pleasure learning from you and talking with you every week. So I really appreciate it. It's been a wonderful conversation. Lau: Oh my pleasure. All the time. I can't wait for the next one. Anne: All right. So guys, BOSSes, I want you to take a moment and imagine yourself being a part of making a difference in our world and giving back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like BOSSes, like Lau and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Branding is a form of self-discovery. Your brand is how the world perceives you, but more importantly, how potential voice seekers will perceive you. Anne & Lau want you to put your best foot forward, and that starts with using your name and likeness to let the world know who you really are. Type casting, client feedback, and peer advice can all be tools to build your understanding of how others perceive your brand. But it doesn't stop there! Look inside yourself to learn your core beliefs. What is it that makes you tick? Externalizing this will strengthen your brand and make it authentic, like you. Sounds challenging? Listen up Bosses, Anne & Lau are here to help… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to our business superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: How's it going today? Lau: Oh, it's beyond awesome. I'm always thrilled to be on with you. I mean it's, it's -- Anne: Beyond awesome, I love it. Lau: -- can't wait to see what's gonna happen. Anne: I love it. Well, then I've got a question for you. Okay? Lau: Okay. All right. Anne: So this is a question I get asked a lot. So if you had to give three words to describe me, what would those three words be? Either my voice or something that would help to brand me. What would those three words be? Lau: Now, are you talking about let's qualify that, is that within the profession or is that just in general as a person from the short time that we've known each other? Anne: Well, you know what, since it's such a personal brand, like we are personal brands, I think it could be a mix of both if it needs to be. Because I think people wanna connect to the human side of Anne as well as the business side of Anne. Lau: Okay. And by no means is it just these three words, 'cause we could probably come up with you 50 words for you, but we, we only have so much time. So we'll say three for now. Anne: And hopefully they're good words. Lau: Oh. Of course. Okay. So the first one that comes to my mind that I can't dismiss is feisty. Anne: Oh, feisty! Lau: Feisty. Anne: I like feisty. Lau: Feisty always goes with like fun in my mind too, but feisty -- Anne: That's a good word. Thank you. Lau: The second one would be, I wanna say intelligent. I feel it's a little bit bland of a word. I was almost gonna say sophisticated. Anne: Oh, so feisty, intelligent or sophisticated. I'll take those. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: Ooh, seasoned. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: That's awesome. Wow. Lau: And those are three that come to my mind. If you gimme another five minutes, I'll come up with more. But. Anne: I love that. Wow. Lau: And to be perfectly transparent with our listeners, even though I feel like I've known you forever, we really have only been working together like a week. And we only met, when did we meet, a month or two ago? Right? But see, already I got so much perception of your vibe and the way you work and how you're thinking about things. And it's, it's a lot in a very short amount of time. Anne: I love that. So if I have three words for you, and this is funny, cause look, I have not thought about this, BOSSes. I sprung this on Lau like just as you heard it. So she was kind of not anticipating either. So I'm going to say brilliant. That's one for you. And I mean brilliant in not just a sense of like intelligence, but I mean like brilliant, like sparkly. Lau: Oh. Anne: Like in a sparkly way. Lau: Like how you would say about a diamond or something. Anne: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like brilliant. Lau: Oh thank you. That's really sweet. Anne: And honestly this is something maybe you're not gonna put it on your, your webpage, but we could think of a different word for it. I mean, I think you could, but beautiful really is another, and I don't mean beautiful like visually I do mean visually, but I really mean beautiful spirit. Like a beautiful spirit. Lau: Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: That means so much more to me. . Anne: So a beautiful spirit and gosh, you know, you said feisty and I love that word. That's a great word, but I -- Lau: Isn't that a great word? Anne: -- also feel like, like a version of feisty, a version of feisty because gosh, I'm thinking of the word, something that would resonate with -- like, no one's gonna pull the wool over your eyes. Lau: Ooh. Anne: Like you're not gonna stand for any kind of nonsense. You are forthright. Lau: Oh, I like that. Thank you. Anne: So those, brilliant, beautiful and forthright. So those would be my three words. And so BOSSes, we get these questions -- Lau and I get these questions all the time, right? What is my brand? How would you describe my voice? And I think it would be a great time to talk about branding, because branding is so difficult to do on your own because -- this is why I asked Lau, what do you think? So I was able to get an assessment from eyes that were not my own or ears that were not my own. And I think it really helps to have someone brand you, but also to have you be a part of that decision in terms of what type of a brand do you wanna be? How do you wanna be perceived out in the business world for your voiceover business? So I know that for my students, there are two different forms of branding. One is a visual branding, which could be your website, right, and how you wanna represent visually. But also vocally. I make it a point to tell students, as we go through our sessions together, I will be vocally branding them. And that really means to assess their tone, their style, and where I feel they fit within the industry in terms of what brands do you think you would represent well, and what styles and what industries your voice would resonate in. Lau: Hmm. I think that's brilliant. I mean, that's so important and that's the very thing that everyone needs, everyone's looking for. Everyone needs it. Sometimes I would imagine it doesn't always like match or it's not always on the level of what someone is self-perceiving, and that's why it's so imperative that you have great coach, great people surrounding you to sort of keep you in line and keep you realizing what is realistic in your perception of whatever your branding is. So I think that that's fantastic that you do that. It's so important, and to do it upfront versus a lot later on, so hearts are not broken you know what I mean? Anne: Well, I think that branding is a process and I think that you can also evolve your brand. You don't have to be one specific brand or three specific adjectives. As a matter of fact, like Lau, you said before, there could be multiple words that describe you. And it's not something that -- you know, it took me a minute to kind of formulate my three words for you, 'cause I was making a decision. There's so many words that came to mind, but as making a decision, how do I best feel that your brand is assessed? And so I think it's important for BOSSes to know out there that branding is not something you can do just over a night or maybe by asking a few questions. I think it's something that happens over time, and it's something that can actually really evolve along with you. I know that my brand, especially my business brand, when I first got out there, I was Anne Speak. And you know, that was like, Anne Speak. What, you know, what is that? What is Anne Speak? And Anne Speak was a very different logo and a very different look on my website. And I've evolved into something that I feel is more authentically me over the years in terms of who I am. And I, I love that you said intelligent because that was one thing that I really wanted for people to perceive about me. It could just be that a female that worked in engineering, that is one of those things that I always wanted people to see me as intelligent and not necessarily, oh, there's a female. I want just here's somebody who knows what they're doing. And some people think that that's why I wear glasses, but honestly I just need them to see . Um, but glasses have always been a big part of my brand. Lau: The truth comes out. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Anne: Well, what about you Lau? 'Cause you've been in the business for some time. And how has your brand evolved over the years? Lau: Well, you know, it's funny. When I started this business, Lau Lapides Company, the studio, I ended up keeping the name throughout. I've never really changed the name itself. I think when I first started though, I always had the mindset of an agent in my head, though it was funny. I wasn't really starting an agency per se. I was starting a studio. Right? So I had this idea of actors work, voice actors work. And so that was one of the running titles in my mind of naming a business, 'cause I wanted talent to work, and I wanted to help them get to work. That was one of -- so that was one of the original working title ideas I had. But then it went to Lau Lapides Company fairly fast and then I stuck with it. Here's the interesting thing I found, Anne, is that despite me or despite what I was thinking, it had a very large appeal. It had a large presence. That's what I'm looking for, a large presence to people on the outside that were saying, wow, you have a big company. And so I would start listening, I think in branding, how do I learn who I am? I have to listen to my audience. And so I spent a lot of time listening to how I was perceived by the audience. And I was astounded at how I was being perceived. And one was this big, large presence. And I think because the name was Lau Lapides Company, it sounded big. It had a largess. So people would come and say, wow, you have an enterprise. Wow you have this, Wow, you have that. And I was very small at the start, as most businesses are. Anne: Sure. Well, one person sometimes. And I love that you talked about your personal name because again, I'm always of the thought that we are our own personal brand. We're selling a product that is very personal to us. It's our voice. Right? It's our essence. And so I always think, well, what better name for your product or your company than your name? And it's funny because people might say, well, I have a long name that's difficult to spell or I have Anne with an E that people always forget. But honestly I'm always like, well look when I need a tissue, I ask for a Kleenex, right? So when I need a voiceover, I should ask for a Lau Lapides or an Anne Ganguzza. Lau: That's right. Anne: And so I've come from the place of abundance as you like to say. And I manifested, right? I am just putting it out there. I'm Anne Ganguzza and lo and behold, at some point people are gonna be asking for an Anne Ganguzza and it, and it will work. And so that was part of my branding, my personal branding for my name was my name. And so my legal company name is Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. And so it's interesting 'cause you're Lau Lapides Company and I'm Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I settled on that after many years of trying to figure out what should I name my company? What domain should I buy? Because I thought Anne Speaks was so cute, but we know that nobody really knows what an Anne Speak is. Um, it's not really searchable, but Anne Ganguzza is, right? Lau: Right. Anne: So I love that. And I think you wanted to see what people thought of you, right? Lau: I did. Anne: And that was the basis for the beginning of a brand. So I think any of you BOSSes that are out there and you're starting the branding journey, I think it first has to start with you and the basis of who you are as a person. because it is such a personal brand. Now maybe you're not gonna put those words out beautiful, but maybe beautiful voiceover, who knows. I mean -- Lau: Who knows? Anne: -- whatever comes to you that you wanna be perceived as. Lau: The funny part about it was, Anne, to me it was clunky. It wasn't a smooth transition or polished thing because my name was hard to say it's hard to pronounce. It's hard to spell. I got a lot of people who legitimately thought I was an Asian man. Like literally they had no idea I was a Caucasian white woman, and everyone mispronounced my name, everyone. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And so a few of the folks that are close to me said, are you sure you wanna keep the name? Because no one's gonna get it right. and they're gonna mispronounce it. And I said, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Oh my God. Lau: That's what makes it memorable. Anne: I am so in agreement with you, so in agreement with you about that, and that's like, well, don't you think people are gonna spell your name wrong? Well, yeah. I mean, but no. People will learn it and Ganguzza, which to a lot of people think is really a difficult name to spell -- it's not, spelled the way it sounds -- Lau: It's different. Anne: But a lot of people were like, yeah. And so why would you do that? I'm like, hey, no, keep it. It's kind of one of the reasons why I kept my unique New Jersey phone number for my cell phone, because people would know if it was coming from that area code, it was Anne Ganguzza. Lau: So that's right. and as they stumble over the name and still stumble over the name and mispronounce it, it never bothers me. I love it because I know as they learn how to pronounce it or catch something, they're thinking about -- Anne: They're gonna remember it. Lau: Yes. Mm-hmm, they're thinking about, they're gonna remember -- Anne: They're thinking about you. Lau: Yeah. So I think that's a hook for a lot of folks to think about it. It doesn't have to be easy and it doesn't have to be common. It could be something a little bit unique that people remember that they have a tough time with too. Anne: Right. Now, and so let's talk a little bit about visual branding. So for visual branding, I'm assuming like visual branding would be your logo, your website. And so things that represent your store front, that would be the visual branding. It can also be the visual branding of your person. If you're a person that goes to conferences or you're a person that goes out and speaks, go to the chamber of commerce and you're representing your business. So visually branding, so it's a little bit different than vocally branding. So what are some steps that you take, Lau, to visually help brand yourself or others? Like what steps can the BOSSes take to start with the visual branding? Lau: Gosh, that's a great question, Anne, and it's like asking someone to think like a graphic designer. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Or a web designer, right, or do something that I personally am not. I am not a visual designer. I'm not a graphic designer. And yet when I was starting out with a website, I had to kind of become that in the sense of the designer would need to know, what was I going for? What was the visual I was seeing. So I had to -- Anne: Colors. I think starting with them -- Lau: -- work with them. Colors. Anne: Colors. Lau: Colors, colors. Anne: I think colors are a good start. Right? Lau: Huge. So what I did was, and I remember doing this years ago before I actually started the studio, I started asking some of my students at that time, I would say, what color do you think of when you think of me? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: And I remember, I remember some of their responses that it was so memorable to me. One of the women that I worked with was amazing. And she said, oh, red. Anne: Yeah. Lau: It just like came right out. Just like that. I said, you don't have to think about that for a second. She said, no, no, you're blunt. You're vibrant, you're specific you're out there and unapologetic, and you're red. . Anne: Yep. I agree with that. I totally -- Lau: 'Cause I love all colors, Anne. I don't have a favorite color. Like any color you give me, I would like. Anne: Oh really? Lau: Yeah. Anne: So my favorite color is blue, right? Yes. Believe it or not, blue -- and blue is actually my brand. If you go to annganguzza.com, blue is -- but I also love red. Okay? Lau: I can see that. Yes. Anne: And so red -- yes -- red is part of my VO BOSS brand. So I got to have the best of both worlds and my favorite colors. And it's not necessarily a vibrant, bright red, but it is more of a deeper red. That is one of my very favorite colors. And so I got to have both for both of my brands. And so I think it starts, colorwise also, I think it can really describe you in a lot of ways, colors. You know, Blue's very professional calming, but for me, blue is also the color of my eyes. And it was always been my favorite color. I mean, when I was a kid blue everything, and I had blue stripes painted in my room on my walls because I love the color blue. And so that's really an integral part of who I am. And I think starting with those colors and it was something within that color palette can be a great visual representation. And I'll tell you what I do with a lot of my students, if I were helping them brand themselves is we, we actually create a, a private Pinterest board, and I have them just like a vision board, right, I have them pin everything that they love on one of a board that they call Sarah's branding board. Right? And they pin their favorite colors. And then maybe they'll go to like Behr paints and get a color palette, right? Pick their favorite colors, pick their favorite fonts, pick their favorite things, and flowers and whatever that might be and put that on a board. And what's really cool is that -- I'm not saying you have to design the website, but you give that to the person who's doing your website design. And that is a great representation of who you visually are as a brand. Lau: Oh, I love that. That's fab. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: That's fab. And you know, the other thing that comes to my mind is shape. So when I think about shape, right? I think about the first thing that comes to my mind was the documentary on coffee, the great coffee kings entrepreneurs around the world. And Starbucks had done years and years of studies about their furniture. Like what shape should their furniture be in their stores? And they went from square to rectangle to oval, to round, whatever. Bottom line they landed on more -- at that time, it may have changed -- more round than square and the reasoning being, they want the community to be connected in the circular sense than in a square sense with sharp corners and sharp edges. That's, I mean, they were really going to town with the details. Anne: That's, that's really interesting. Lau: And I learned a lot from that and I thought, gee, what shape am I? What shape am I? And my logo was very square. It was actually very rectangular. And I analyzed why I did that. At the time I was coming out of an executive speech firm that was pretty square. I mean, they were pretty corporate in the sense. Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lau: I thought it was, was the right thing, the right thing to have a logo that had subliminally, I thought that had sharp, sharp, structured edges to it. Anne: That makes sense. Lau: I since created a new logo, and it's always in a, a work in progress, like everything we're always work in progress, and I didn't even think about this. I just did it, Anne. It became circular. It became circular. I like the image, but I also love the sense of just roundness and the world and the -- Anne: Softening. Lau: -- connections. Softening. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: Yeah. So I think shape plays a big part in your branding. Anne: That is so interesting. And I, I interesting that 'cause shape can define your website. You can have a curved logo or even curved edges on your website or represented in circles for me. I'm very clean. I'm gonna say clean lines, clean circles. And I'm gonna say -- that's so funny because your furniture decor can say a lot about your taste as well, right? I used it for many, many years. It was more of like a, a Tuscan Italian dark wood. And then literally just moved to this new house, which became the interpretive farmhouse. Right? And now I became all clean lines, and my backyard landscaping, believe it or not is not circular. And it's funny because I would go to my neighbors' yards as they were getting them landscaped. And I'd be like, I love the circular curved paths, but in retrospect, my backyard is very square and asymmetrical, rectangular and asymmetrical. And there's something to that as well. So I think that BOSSes think about those things in terms of visual branding, put them on a Pinterest board that you can either give to your website designer or use it yourself in terms of colors and shapes really say a lot. And fonts, I love clean fonts. I don't like fonts with curly anything. I don't like fonts that are Times New Roman like that kind of like that. I like fonts that are plain like Arial, you know, that kind of a Sans Serif, those types of things. So clean and readable and clear. And I feel that that also describes my voice, believe it or not clear and professional. And so those are my font choices. Then comes the part of the visual branding is also how you write about yourself, how you describe yourself. Do you write in the first person, do you write in the third person? You know, how is it that you're describing yourself on your webpage for your bio or for your business? But that really is a visual branding thing. And I think it can absolutely help if you start doing that and work with someone to help you to develop your visual brand. It's sometimes really difficult and know that it can evolve. I mean, absolutely. My colors when I first started were dark green. So who knew, right? I evolved my brand into blue and deep red. And now maybe it'll turn into something else. But brands do evolve. They do refresh. And I literally just had a refresh of the VO BOSS website. And so, so the colors that I had before were more brighter red and more of a royal blue. Now I've got maybe just a deep red and black. So the look is different. The website design, the logo is clearer and so things can evolve. And I think it's good for you to refresh your brand once in a while. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Now let's talk about vocal branding. So it's something that I say that I do. And I, there's not a lot of people who they're like, oh, I love that you vocally brand me. What do you do? But I think a lot of people are vocally branded, right? When we try to describe what are the traits of my voice that you hear? I think that's definitely one, but also I think not just what are the traits of my voice, whether it's friendly, warm, whatever could be -- Lau: The qualities. Anne: The qualities of voice. But I think it's also more of a style as well. What do you think, Lau? Lau: Oh, oh my goodness. Absolutely. I feel like your personality, your persona, your inners, so to speak, do come out in the sound of your voice. Like when we're working with a client to find their voice, it's not just for voiceover delivery. It's for authentication of your identity, of your strength, of your inner soul, if you will. It goes that deep. So I think a branding is an offshoot of that. It doesn't have to expose everything about you personally, but there is that element there of how do you come across? How are you perceived on a daily basis outside of copy, outside of a booth, outside of work? And melting that into your professional life so it's not a totally separate thing. It's really a hybrid of your persona, your personality, the personification of personalization with your professional chosen life and choices that you've made. It's kind of a combination of those two. I don't believe it's one or the other. So I think your vocal branding is really every possible range of motion movement that your voice is capable of doing and really landing on what do I do most? What do I do best? What do I like doing? Anne: Right, and a lot of that has to do with like, you know, when I talk about vocal branding, you're right, it doesn't stop at the actual technicality of a vocal. It really, it becomes what styles, what do you love? What are you passionate about? Because again, that personality, that authenticity, that you, that unique you is a part of your vocal. So it's so interesting when people try to just categorize it as just being friendly, warm, compassionate, gravelly. It's so much more than that, your vocal branding. And again -- Lau: It is. Anne: -- that's something that I think with a lot of times, if a demo producer they're creating a demo for you, they'll ask you what brands do you align with? What things are you passionate about? Because it really makes sense that if you're talking about things that you're passionate about, it comes through in your voice and that becomes a style. I know that there are people, let's say if there's a male that comes to me, that has a very deep gravelly voice, what sorts of things do you think of when you think of a deep gravelly voice? I don't know, Ford trucks or , you know, maybe at Cracker Barrel, I don't know. Or, or it could be John Deere construction equipment, that sort of thing. So what sort of things with a higher pitched, young youthful voice? Well, believe it or not, a lot of times I think of finance. There's a lot of finance lately that is using young millennial youthful voices, because that's the audience they're trying to attract, not just the young voice for that, but just, it could be college spots or anything that that style or that age would be passionate about or thinking about. And a lot of the style and the content that we are shooting for is where they want to advertise to. Are they advertising to a younger audience? Are they advertising to a more mature audience? And so wherever your voice follows suit the best, I think helps to vocally brand your voice as well. You know, even though I have a younger sounding voice, I certainly cannot sound millennial. It's just not necessarily in my authenticity, right, to sound millennial. Even if I try to mimic a millennial, I think ingrained in my voice is too many years of, I don't know, just too many years. Right? So I could try to sound millennial, but will I feel authentic doing it? So for vocal branding, I'm always very much about the authentic part of you. Now, if you get into character, that's something different, right? That's a different voice. And again, that's also a different passion. I know so many people vocally that can bring out so much more personality behind a character than they can with their own voice. It's hard for them to assess their own voice and to be authentic with their own voice or realistic, I should say, because I truly believe there's a lot of people that are exceptional character actors, that they're really good at -- and I don't maybe hiding behind the voice is not a good word for it, but I wanna say they're very good at putting on another character. And sometimes when you say, well, let me just hear you because you are good enough. Your voice is good enough. That's a little more difficult for them. Lau: Oh, no question about it. And I think a lot of folks get really disappointed and let down when they are prototyped quickly or when they are thought of as, oh, you're the grandmother. Oh, you're the -- Anne: You're the mother type. Lau: -- middle-aged mother. Oh, you are the, this you're the that. Well, that's what our industry does. I mean, our industry has to do that for time sake, for expediency, for ease, you know. I can do Shakespeare. I can do a lot of things, but what do I do most of, what do I do best? What do I do easiest? What's the easiest thing for me to deliver? That's important for you to really identify that and recognize that and understand that you get -- it's not the only thing you'll get. You may get something outside of that, for sure. But if you can make the job of the producer, casting a lot easier, then you wanna do that. And you wanna listen to your audience, how they're seeing you or in this case, how they're hearing you. How do they hear you? I remember too, I got a number of times through the years, even when I was much younger, Anne, even when I was in my 20's, I was starting to get audiences say to me, oh yeah, you're like the nanny. You're like the Jewish, you know, mom, you're the Jewish mom, aren't you? And I was offended. Here I was a conservatory actress. I wasn't married. I had no children. I, I was like, all right, I guess so. I thought it was almost like a slight to me. It was almost like a backwards insult of saying, is that all you hear me as? Is that really what is all has come down to? Well, since then, I've learned that that level of familiarity, that level of maternal, maternalistic quality, that level of ethnic appeal is very gratifying for a lot of people, very gratifying, and very gratifying for me too, as an actor. And so I adopted that. I love that. I, I embrace that. But then I know I could do something totally different at another time. It doesn't really limit me, not really. It just expands the level of work that I can get, because that's what I get known for. See? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that. And I think that there are people who hear your vocal brand as a type. I mean, I just had a student who had a really deep gravelly voice and I said, oh, we're gonna do a Kubota spot, 'cause I had -- construction equipment. He goes that's so funny because I work in it and I have no idea about construction equipment. I said, yeah. But it's something that it's associated with that type of work, and you sound great at it. And as long as you're okay with it, you know, and you can be authentic about it, and it doesn't mean you have to go out and run a piece of equipment to be authentic about it. You just have to be authentic about the message and what you're saying. And so, yeah. I'm so glad that you said that because there are perceived, you know, you sound like this type. And for me I've like, okay, you've got the professional educator because you've got that clear articulate voice. Well, I can't help -- I -- it's a clear articulate voice. And I would love to have that raspy kind of a demure kind of other voice, but it doesn't physically happen for me. So I said, okay, I'm going to accept that. And you know, if I get hired for that, of course, that's fantastic, right? But it doesn't stop me from learning other genres. It doesn't stop me from trying to vocally place my voice and do different things to increase my acting ability and my vocal ability. So it's just something, if you embrace it and then just move forward, continuing to broaden and expand your styles. I think that's, that's a wonderful thing. Lau: Yeah, it reminds me of when someone says, oh my God, you, you look like my best friend. You look like my aunt, you look like this one I know. That used to annoy me. That used to say, oh, it's like, I'm not my own identity. I'm not my own person. I look like someone everyone knows. And then I realized that's a really great thing because they already feel close to me. They feel familiar to me. They feel like they know me. Anne: What a great way to analyze that because that's the same thing with your voice. Right? So somebody is kind of saying, oh you are that voice. Well then that's great. Because they're familiar with it. They feel comfortable with it. That's a wonderful way to look at it. Lau: That's exactly it, exactly it. So don't look at is anything is limiting you. Look at it as expansion, your brand, your vocal, your visual, your inner, your outer. I think the sky is the limit, but do understand how in audience, there's like a truism, a community truism that you get in a film when you're watching a great film or when you're listening to great music. There's a community understanding of familiarity or greatness or fitting in a particular role. And it's important to just pay attention to that. So you're red, you're red. Anne: Yeah, there you go. And I can also be blue. So there you go. Lau: And you can be blue. Anne: So branding, guys, it's not something you can do overnight. Remember, it definitely helps when you have someone else, a trusted coach, a trusted circle of friends and community that can help you to understand how you are perceived. And also I think it takes a lot on your part to project what it is that you want to be perceived in an authentic manner, of course. That's gonna be your start to branding. Just know that it doesn't typically happen overnight and that you can evolve and change with it. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Lau: And it can be a load of fun. And you can learn an awful lot through the years of shifting your brand, and changing your brand, and what your perceived brand is, and really kind of just opening up and accepting the flow of what the audience and the universe is giving to you. Anne: Yeah. I would never disagree to being able to discover more about myself and learn more about myself in order to help put out a brand. So it's all good. It's all good, BOSSes. Well, thank you, Lau. What a great conversation. Lau: My pleasure, as always. Anne: Always a pleasure to have you. I'm going to give a big shout out to ipDTL, our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Also for your voices out there, 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. BOSSes, it's been amazing, and Lau, it's been amazing having you again. And we will all see you next week. Lau: See you next week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Build a circle that will support, motivate, and promote your inner joy, strength & courage. Anne & Lau are breaking down fear to build up your confidence. Your confidence level can make or break your biz, but it all starts from within. Do you really want success? Are you ready to put in the work to achieve your dreams? Instead of asking coaches, peers, and friends, you have to ask yourself and answer with honesty. Creating goals that feel insurmountable is what will end your business before you begin. But with the right tools & wisdom from your favorite business superheroes, we know you can tackle any task! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast in the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, how are you today? Lau: Fabulous. Fabulous. Thank you, Anne. It's great to be back. Anne: Yeah, I am excited about our series, so excited. Lau: Me too. Anne: And the last couple of series we've were learning more and more about you. And I wanted to kind of bring into the mold a little bit about when I first started back in, oh God, this is so long ago, but not quite as long -- I think you've been in the business longer than me but -- Lau: I have. Anne: I remember distinctly, I remember distinctly when I started, I didn't come from a creative background. You know, I didn't have a job and a creative background. Well, everything can be a creative field I think if you make it a creative field, but it wasn't distinctly a creative field of voiceover. So I remember when I gave up my cushy job, my cushy corporate job or cushy corporate job in education, I was scared. I was really scared about starting a full time job in voiceover. And I was really a little bit timid and lacked a little bit of confidence because I had never embarked on something. I had never been an entrepreneur and started my own business. So, and I know that a lot of people, this is somewhat intimidating to them. So I thought we could talk about the topic of confidence, because I truly believe that the evolution of my confidence and how I manifested it helped me to really get through the first stumbling blocks and hard times. And not that there aren't hard times now, but I feel like confidence really plays a big part in how well we get through events that may or may not be everyday roses. Lau: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think it's the bedrock of what we do as performers. I mean, if you put aside right now, the idea that you're an entrepreneur, you're a BOSS, you, you head up your own company, whether you're a DBA, an LLC, or whatever those letters are after your name, it's your own deal. It's your own shindig. But put that aside for a second, just as a person, as a human being -- we're performers and our job is to, to some degree become vulnerable, to open up to a world, something inside of us and reveal something. And how do we do that? Right? How do we get to that? How do we have that confidence to be able to expose ourself in that way and then be able to reel it in? So I think, think, yes, I think confidence is really, really just a foundation of where we start from and where we're working from and what helps define us as the, the superheroes that we are asked to become every day. Anne: And I was even talking just business-wise, like, how do I even do this thing? And you brought in the whole other aspect of performance that, yeah, we do have to show ourselves to be vulnerable. We have to really be able to bring ourselves to the copy. And a lot of times that means exposing ourselves and that is sometimes very uncomfortable for people, especially if they're not used to doing it. And so I just remember so many self-doubts flooding my brain. And I didn't have anybody to talk to 'cause I didn't know anybody that had really done what I was doing in my immediate circle. As a matter of fact, most people, sometimes my parents too, would be like -- well, my mother would be like, honey, when are you gonna get a real job? And bless her, I love her. But she would say, well, you know, when are you gonna get? And, and I'm like, but Mom, I. Lau: . Right. Right. Anne: I'm an entrepreneur, Mom. And it was funny because it took her a while before she finally, you know, understood what it was that I was doing. And so I think first of all, we have to assess the current situation that we're in, and we have to actually acknowledge that I think fear could be something that is contributing to our lack of confidence. I think that's step number one. What are your thoughts? Lau: I'm with you all the way. I think that fear is, is a huge factor. And I often talk to my clients about this, is that there's two really big obstacles that can get in our way. One is fear and one is focus, and the two of them together can be powerhouse if used wisely because the truth is we're never gonna not feel fear. That's like a double negative. But that's just, you know, we're human beings. We're, we're animalistic in a survivalist kind of way. We're built to have instinct about things, which is important. We have to listen to our inner voice as well as our outer voice. We have to pay attention when we feel there's danger or something that's not going to work for us. Right? So don't put that inner fear factor voice away, but it's really like feeling the fear, but then doing it anyway, if that's a calculated risk, if that's a risk worth taking for you, how do I manage that? I always feel like I can never really control anything as much as I would love to. I can't. I have to be able to manage the difficulties and the conflicts and the obstructions and all that stuff that gets thrown in our path. But if we think about it as oh, but I have to control my fear, I shouldn't be feeling fear -- that's wrong. I think then we're already off on the wrong path. We have to accept the fact that we're built to feel fear. You know, even our breathing as speakers, we understand what fight or flight breathing is. You know, if we go into our upper thoracic chest cavity, if we go into the clavicular area of our throat, we know we're in more of a stress fight or flight mode. Right? And it's not great for speaking, but it's meant for other occasions that will kind of save us and save our lives. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: So you are right, Anne. I think fear is important. It's necessary, but a lot of people have a negative connotation of fear and how to manage the fear. Anne: I think if you don't feel fear, then you are not growing. Lau: Yeah, and, and like, do we even care about it? Anne: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I think if you're not feeling fear, then you're not maybe pushing yourself to where I think you could be. And I think that that is something that if you can take that fear and not fear the fear but yet figure out a way to push through the fear and roll with the fear and know that it's normal and know that it's normal even for veterans like us I think that have been in the business for a long time. I still feel fear as a matter of fact, quite a bit. And I've grown to the point where I know that if I don't feel fear, that I'm not pushing myself. And I just, for me, I think to be the best entrepreneur and the best that I can be, I need to be able to feel that and push through it. But it doesn't mean that it makes it any easier sometimes. Lau: No, it doesn't, but fear can be fun. Remember the show that used to be on, Fear Factor. Anne: Yeah. Right, right. Lau: That a huge, massive audience. Like why are we so fascinated with seeing people in fear? Why is the horror genre in film or in audiobooks so massive, a billion dollar industry? Because there's a catharsis that we need as human beings that we live through that we learn, at least have the potential to learn about morality about what to do, what not to do, about how to protect ourselves, about how to build a better situation for ourselves. It's fun. And it's exciting. And there's a little, you know, frisson that comes in the back of the neck. But at the end of the day, we wanna walk out and we wanna say, hey, I kind of discovered something here. I learned something about myself or about my surroundings. And the fear was like a little bit of a, a sign saying, pay, pay attention. You know, just, just look at the details of what's happening here. And fear in a way is care. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. Lau: Like I care when I feel fear. Right? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: So we have to be kind of fearless about fear. Anne: And so, you know, let's talk about what are the things that are, I think common fears when we become entrepreneurs. I'll, I'll start with, I fear that I'm not going to be able to make it or make any money and I will be, I will fail. So therefore it becomes that thought that I won't be good enough. I won't be able to make money and I'll have to go back to the corporate world and I'll fail. And that was my biggest fear in the beginning. And it was a very like blanket, like thought. And it was a very big thought that like, oh no, it will never work. I will fail. And then I'll have to go back. And that was looking at it at a, on a very large scale. I think one of the things that helped me to kind of get through that is to start to look at things in a smaller light and have little steps that maybe I could feel that I wouldn't fail, but that was number one, the fear that the whole thing wouldn't work, and it wasn't just, oh, I won't be good enough. It'll just be like the whole thing won't work. I don't know anything about starting a business. I haven't researched it really. I've never done it before. And I don't have anybody in my immediate circle that has started a business. So where do I go for help? So there was all these unknown questions. That was my -- what about you when you first started? Lau: That's a good one. Actually. That's a hard one to top; that fear of failure in is like big. I think your engineer needs to do a, some, some like good trivia music right now. Just like some Jeopardy music right now. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: See if I could top that one. Okay. Here's one. The fear of spending money, IE the fear of losing money. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right. Without an ROI that's secure, if there is such a thing without knowing what my return really will be, without knowing if I'll ever get work, I'm scared to spend money. I'm scared to go broke. I'm scared to waste money. That's a big one, right? Anne: That's a very common fear I think for a lot of people just getting into the industry, it's their, they like, I don't have money to invest, but I need to get work. And it's that which came first. Right? Lau: Right. Anne: And so thankfully I think anybody that goes into this full or, or even part-time needs to, first of all, make sure they have a little bit of a financial cushion so that they can invest the money. Just knowing I didn't quit my corporate job completely blind. I did understand that I would need to invest money. And so I think that securing that knowledge that you have money to invest in your career is one thing. And that's a big thing. And that even now, as I have been in the industry for more than 15 years to continually invest in my company, because now that I have seven to eight people right now that work for me, that was a big thing, right? To be able to like, oh my God, I'm gonna pay someone, and do I have the extra money to pay someone? And so BOSSes, what's really cool about that comparison is that going from an independent, I work for myself, I'm going out to make money, and to grow to a point where you're now gonna hire an assistant that can help you because you're grown to the point so that you can continue to do what it is that you love and have other people that can do the things that maybe you don't love so much, or that you're not as good at. And so that whole first decision like, oh my gosh, do I have the money to hire someone and to spend and to invest? That's a big fear as well. And I think what gave me confidence was I did it small steps at a time. And I think that's one thing for you, BOSSes, is to think about it. What are the small steps they're gonna take you to get you to your goal and what are the achievable steps that will then give you confidence, right, to continue moving forward? Lau; Right. And, Anne, I wanna piggyback on that point , which is so necessary. It's like bottom line again, bedrock principle what you're talking about here is mindset, mindset, mindset over your matter. You really have to power up that mindset when it comes to investment and say, am I coming from a mindset of poverty or am I coming from a mindset of wealth? And I'm not only talking about physical money. I'm also talking about abundance, surplus, glass half full. Am I a hopeful positive, I'm gonna take that lemon and make it into lemonade? That to me is wealth, wealth of knowledge, wealth of spirit, wealth of fun and risk taking. So you have to be honest with yourself I think, Anne, and say, am I really in a position to do this? Because my mindset needs to be able to open up to the possibilities of success. Like I, I always say to my clients be careful what you wish for. You may get it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? Because success is difficult. It's hard. It holds you to a very high level of responsibility and industry standard and timeline and everything. Success isn't easy. Success is a challenge. Right? Anne: And there's a fear of success as well. That is absolutely a thing. Lau: Ooh, that's your number three, I think, right? Anne: Yeah. Fear of success. That's number -- and then wanting to continue and continue to grow. And I think it's a cycle. Every step, as you move up really becomes, I'm afraid. like acknowledging the fear, and then breaking it up maybe into smaller chunks. How can I get from this level to this level? And then breaking that up into small steps and then being able to manifest come from that place of abundance, and just push through until that small step is achieved. That will give you the conference to move up to the next step. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: And help you to manifest the next step. And I think that that might be a, a great process for people to work through the fear and build their confidence in order to grow their business. Lau: Yeah. And yeah, I do think you have to be as honest with yourself as possible and your crew around you, your coaches, your directors, whoever you're working with, even your professional accountability buddies in saying, do I really want success? Or do I like the idea of success? Because the reality is a job, it's work, it's time. It's wonderful, but it's work. So do I really want to put in what I need to put in to work or do I have self sabotaging patterns where every time I start getting close to something that's progressive and good, I put something in the way of it to wall it off? Which I see an awful lot of people doing, whether it's, I can't make that timeframe. Anne: I see that on social media. Lau: I'm busy with something else. Yeah. yeah. And you think, well, wait a second, isn't this your goal? Isn't this what you wanna be doing? Yes. As long as it's within my timeframe, within my structure, my context and not really realizing that you're really have to be more client centered, more audience centered, more producer centered. It's not about you in your world. It's really about what you're doing for the client. And so the self sabotage can start to take over. That's common. Anne: Yeah. That's I think a, a big thing. And I do see that on social media where there'll be forums and people will be talking about, well, how do I get work? Or how do you find success in this? And you know, well, I just can't because of this. I can't because of that. I can't because of, and so, you know, again, it's that sort of thing where you're, you're kind of putting all the things that you can't do in front of things that you can do to grow and to move up. And I think, again, it's got to start with you being honest and taking a real honest look at yourself and finding out if you're willing to do the work. You know, there's so many people, and I know you've run into this as well, Lau, that say, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes to make it? Lau: Right. Anne: So there's a good question, Lau. What is your answer to the people who will ask you that? Do I have what it takes? Lau: I always say, you know, when that type of question comes up, I always feel immediately, my knee jerk reaction is I think you're asking the wrong question, to be honest with you. I think a more effective question to ask would be, am I willing to set up a realistic work structure for myself, then I can adhere to on a time management basis and really hold myself accountable to that. Am I willing to do that? Because I always feel like when I went to grad school, I was in a accepted to a three year conservatory full program. And I was nervous about it, nervous, fearful, a little scared. I asked one of my dear friends who had come out of a program. I said, what do I expect? What should I be looking for? He said, listen, simple as this, what you put into it is what you're gonna get out of it. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I said, what a brilliant answer. I've used that for years and years, because it's an individual journey. It's an individual's path. I can't predict your level of success. I can't predict who's going to perceive you as a incredible talent. I can't even predict what kind of genre you're gonna go into, honestly. I can give you my, my advice and that's what I can do. but you have to be honest with yourself and say, do I want this? Am I willing to set up a work schedule for myself? Can I invest in this? Am I willing to not be an ego and set up professionals who know a lot more than I do surrounding me to teach me? I mean, am I willing to do this? And then I can get closer to the answer to that question. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so many people that think it takes like, well, do I have the voice for it? And honestly, I always try to tell people it's about so much more than just your voice. It's really about your connection and the ability to bring yourself to the words and be able to connect. And I believe that if you have the ability to connect with people on a day to day basis, you have the basis for what it takes to do voiceover, because everybody's looking for authenticity. And I think if you're not at the point in your journey where you can bring authenticity to your craft, then that might be the question to ask. It's not, do I have the voice, but do I have the courage to expose myself and be authentic through the art? And once I am, then does that bring me the joy that will bring the passion, the emotion to the craft, which I think is what is truly the connection with people and what people respond to. I'm gonna say the physical aspects of the voice in this whole career, like, will you be successful, I think there's a very small percentage of us -- and again, it's very subjective, right? That have a voice that has the physical characteristics that are like, oh my goodness, like the majority of people will find that beautiful. Very few. There's a lot of us out here though that have a great ability to connect with people. And that almost means more because if you have a beautiful voice and you're not able to connect with authenticity, that is only gonna buy you a certain level of success, I believe. Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I think we just came up with your next episode, and that is like all the wrong questions to ask. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: When you start voiceover, there's really a lot -- I don't even like to use the word wrong. It's not that it's wrong. It's that it's not appropriate at the time to ask that kind of question. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Until you've really been in it for a while. Like a question like coming into it, how much money can I make doing this? It's not an appropriate or effective question to answer at the beginning stages of a career. It just, it just isn't. So that's your next episode, I think, that's the next one. Anne: Well, I, what I was hoping with that explanation was to also give people a boost of confidence so that it does help. I mean, this whole episode is about how to build your confidence up and how to overcome the fear. And I, I really believe that if you understand that about this industry and understand that about this career, again, it's so much more than just that voice, then it becomes, do you have the courage to build a business? Do you have the courage to do the work? And again, that I think if you break it down into the small steps and that's about my only solution for it is to really maybe write your goals down, which I think is a phenomenal way to really help you break down this fear, right, and give yourself confidence. And I also think, and, and I believe that we talked about this before, or I must have talked about it 100 times before writing down those small accomplishments can really mean the world to giving yourself more confidence to continue forward. And as well as the fact that you wrote it down, right, gives you a benchmark. So again, you have to grow step by step moving forward and moving more forward. How do you know if you don't compare it to where you've been? Right? You don't have a benchmark. Lau: So exactly. There's just no context for it in time, in your timeline of your life and also of your career that you're in the middle of. I, I'm also gonna add to that and say, build your circle. I won't even say network. I'll just say circle because it could be family. It could be friends. It could be whoever it could be pets. It could be anyone or anything that helps promote your inner strength, your inner joy and your courage, the word you used earlier. I think is a really smart and frightening word to a lot of people. Like, how do I get courageous? How do I get brave? How, how do I become the superhero? Well, it's just like little moments, little detailed steps you take every day. It isn't these big, massive moves of saving the world. It's like, if you're helping the environment, how do I save the world? I can't save the world. Well, just pick up the can. Anne: Well, exactly. Lau: You know, just pick up a bottle. Put it in here. Anne: Exactly. Take the small step. . Lau: That's all you have to do. Anne: That's such a wonderful example because honestly, if it becomes this all encompassing, overwhelming thing, you've quit before you've even started. Lau: Right, I can't do that. Anne: If you make it so large and so big, and it's like, oh my God, I can't possibly like, if you're beginning, you're beginning to say, well, I didn't make any money this week. And that is what deters you from, you know, the entire career, then -- Lau: Then you quit. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: You've already quit. Anne: You've already quit. Lau: I got one more to throw in the mix, 'cause I hear this a lot. Especially from my crowd that's over 40, fear of technology. Very scary to a lot of people who are not digital natives. They didn't grow up on computers. They didn't grow up using a microphone. They didn't grow up on a video screen. They just didn't, right? I'm in that generation. I'm generation X. We didn't grow up that way. We learned, I mean, I didn't learn it. It was till I was in my 30's, like how to even be on a computer, you know, we didn't have cell phones. So that fear of technology I think can stop a lot of people's progress, and it's important that if you recognize you have the fear, again, it's okay to have the fear it's, it's natural. It's normal. Just how do I manage the fear? Well, one way I could manage the fear, I could delegate some tasks to some of my circle that's around me that I find overwhelming or I find scary. It could be something like, help me choose a microphone or help me, help me learn some new apps on my computer or help me whatever. And also delegating actual tasks to someone else. Like you have an engineer you hire, I have an engineer I hire, I mean that's okay once you have enough money in the pot to hire people and have them do a job that you're not proficient at, you don't have the time for, you don't want to be doing whatever. It's like give yourself permission to delegate. Anne: One of the biggest confidence builders I've found myself as I've grown through the years. Is that money in the pot thing right? So if you can put together a savings account and as you make money, right? Put some in. I mean, that sounds like my mom and dad, like from just, we save a penny. Right? But having money in the pot will help you have confidence so that when there is a low period or maybe you don't get a job for a week or two or a month, that will give you the confidence to still continue on and move forward, and also give you the confidence to help reinvest that money someplace else. The bigger that savings account is, I'll tell you once I got my savings account to a certain level, I was bold as yeah. Anything good. Lau: Yes, yes, yes. Anne: Because I was like, okay, this is okay. I was bold in everything bold in how I was gonna grow my business, bold in, you know, oh, maybe I'll try this now. Right? I was bold to make different steps. And it really changed the way that I ran my business, and it was exhilarating to me. And that gave me confidence like nothing else. I'm not gonna say money is the only thing that gives you confidence, but in this kind of an industry where you have a lot of highs and a lot of lows and a lot of fears, and a lot of the fear I think is fear of failure. And for me, because I went full time, I wanted to contribute to the household expenses, right? This was not just something that I could just enjoy for the rest of my life. I wasn't retiring. I needed to make money to pay the mortgage. And so money for me there gave me a lot of confidence. So I think BOSSes, take tiny steps to understand that there is fear. Take those tiny steps, write down those goals, celebrate those milestones, generate that confidence, and continue to grow and be BOSSes. Right? Lau: I love it. We'll call that VO bucks. Put away your VO bucks, right? Anne: Your VO bucks. I love it. Lau: VO bucks. And when someone says to you, Anne, but honestly I'm telling you honestly, Anne, I don't have the money. I can't buy a new microphone. You say, well, wait a second, wait a second. This is where the financial advisor and you start popping out and you say, wait a second. Didn't you go to the movies last weekend? Did you eat out a couple times this week? Anne: Did you buy that Starbucks? Lau: yes. Just, just be willing to sacrifice that. Do the math on, on that. Put it towards the microphone or whatever you need. And then tell me later, wow. I was able to reprioritize, redirect my VO bucks, and I somehow magically found the money. I found it. Anne: Yeah, hey, I got a part-time job as a office assistant and my mother was like, here, I came out of my six figure, you know, corporate job. And then I'm like, well I'm an office assistant, and I would never downplay any of that. But it was one of those things I did part-time while I was building up the business so that I could have the money and not feel horribly guilty. Right? That I wasn't contributing. And I was building up the business. So giving me confidence, giving me the money to reinvest. BOSSes, you can do it. We've got the faith in you. so. Lau: Everyone is the superhero at the end of the day, Anne, everyone has those powers. Anne: Business superpowers. So awesome episode. Thank you so much, Lau. It's been so much fun. Lau: So much fun. Anne: And, and I am going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want to let you know about 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Casting is global, digital, and massive. This week, Anne & Lau lead Bosses through the complicated world of casting. Resiliency & timing are key for booking that dream gig. Lau teaches us that not all rejections mean no. They often mean not right now. Anne shows us that we are every aspect of our business and that marketing well enough to get in front of voice seekers is part of your job, whether you like it or not! If you're feeling overwhelmed and defeated during the casting process, tune in for some (super) powerful advice… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides and Business Superpowers. Yay. Hey Lau. How's it going today? Lau: Awesome, Anne. So good to be with you. Love being with you. Anne: I'm so excited for this new series and actually, because you do a lot of casting, and I also do casting as well. I thought it would be a great episode to talk about casting because casting over the years, I'm sure, has evolved and changed. And a lot of times my students wanna know, well, what does it take to get in front of a casting director and impress them so that they get hired? Lau: Sure, it's a biggie. Anne: Who better to ask, Lau than someone that's been doing it for many, many years. Right? So let's talk about like, how has casting changed over the years? Lau: Mm that's a loaded question. I love the theme. I have to tell you, I love the superpower theme because innately, I think for actors, voice actors, there's this feeling of helplessness, of powerlessness, of waiting for a job or waiting for someone to like me. Right? You know, what did I do wrong? Why didn't they cast me? Why didn't they like me? And I love the theme of this show that you chose, because it's all about finding your inner power. Like what ignites us, what empowers us when we get to the casting, when we get to the agency, when we get to the hiring power, hiring people, how do we ignite our own power inside of us? So I love that. I love that. Okay. So it's a hard question to answer in the sense that it's so unique to each person. Every individual is a very, very unique experience throughout their performance life. But you know, I can give you a few tips along the way, in terms of, let's say you're starting out and you're early to market, and you're coming in, you're saying, huh, how do I get people knowing my name and hearing my voice? Well, for casting, I'll tell you one of the things that we're always looking for are people that are submitting a lot. They're really marketing themselves well, and they're submitting a lot, and they're unafraid to submit and resubmit because I think it's a truism in the industry that you're not gonna book the first job. You may not even book the second or third job or the 50th job. So what do we do? We have to have that tenacity, that inner power within us to say, it's okay. I can submit until the cows come home. And maybe, maybe they just don't need my value right now. So I'm not looking at this as a rejection. I'm looking at this as not a no, but a not now. Anne: Right? I love that. You know what, you're the first person that I've ever heard say that, the tenacity, submit, submit, submit, because I think for a lot of talent, they get discouraged, right? They're either like, oh my gosh, I've submitted. I haven't booked anything. And then they get down on themselves. And you're the first casting director that I've heard actually say be tenacious, submit, submit, submit. And actually, you know, I totally agree, because I feel like your name will become known as well to the casting directors. And at some point, I would imagine if you're continually submitting, either at some point, somebody's going to stop and give you feedback, if they feel it's necessary. And also it's just kind of a way to keep yourself top of mind, which is like any good marketing, is to keep yourself top of mind with a casting director. So I wanted to stop and say, thank you for saying that, because I'm sure that you just gave these BOSSes a whole lot more reason to just continue on, and be positive, and just submit, submit. So thank you for that. Love it. Yeah. Lau: Of course. That was my pleasure. And BOSSes listening in, I'm telling you, there are not enough places in the world and your lifetime isn't long enough to submit to every place you could be submitting to. So it's not about waiting for 5, 10, 15, 20 sources. It's about pasting. Like it's global, we're in a global industry now. You wanna cover the globe. So you don't wanna go from local. You don't wanna do regional. You don't even wanna keep it national. You wanna go international. So you wanna think about as you work with your coaches, as you work with your trainers, as you work with Anne, you wanna think about, boy, here's where I am in this market, but how am I viewed in that market? And then how am I viewed in this market? And it becomes an endless journey of how can I get in front of casting and representation that can represent me for that particular genre and that particular brand, which may change, which very well may change. Anne: Now, let me play devil's advocate here from the voice talent perspective and say, how do I find different casting directors that cast in different genres or different places? Is that something that's easily researched? Lau: Well, yes and no. In the sense that nothing is easy But everything's at our fingertips now. Anne: Right, right. Lau: We know this, everything is at our fingertips. So what you need, and I'm like preaching to the choir on this one, but what the BOSSes need is they need a great time management schedule. They need to be honest about what are they committing? I always say what you put in is what you're going to get out of it for your career. Am I putting in an hour, a day, am I putting in 15 hours a day? I'm most likely gonna get more out of it if I'm putting in more time. And the time needs to be very focused time, very incisive time. I need to know exactly, like how does an actor think I need to have purpose. I need to have an objective. I can't just generically go in and hope for work. I have to really, really target in. So let's say, say, I'm looking for casting directors. I know, based on my studio, I know one of the ways you can be seen live and virtually, virtually and live is to do showcases. And showcases are a fascinating event. We produce them and a lot of others produce them as well. And you get to go live in person, whether you're walking into a room or whether you're walking into a Zoom room, you get to meet people. There's nothing better than being in front of a casting director or an agent or a producer and saying, hi, I'm live. This is who I am. This is what I do. I'm gonna do it for you right now. This is a great option to get in front of as many casting people and reps, if you're looking for reps, as possible. A lot of people are afraid of it and they shouldn't be. Anne: Well, and I'm gonna just kind of plug my VO Peeps group. I mean, we do have workouts with casting directors and talent agents. And if you are afraid thinking that you're not ready to be seen or to be showcased, do the work to get yourself performance-wise where you feel confident. Because it's never a guarantee if you're performing in front of a casting director. And I always have to say that. Like, there is no guarantee you'll get work if you come to my workshop that is hosted by me and I have a talent agent or a casting director, but what a great opportunity to kind of showcase your talents. And so again, there's never any guarantee that you'll get work, but it's an opportunity for you to get in front of these people live in a Zoom room for the VO Peeps cases anyways, and then live also with -- Lau has showcases. And I know there's other casting directors as well that do those showcases, and that's a great opportunity to get seen and heard. Lau: It is. And it also will satisfy you. Like if you're doing the Peeps, you're doing the workout, it satisfies that live actor forum in you, where you wanna get some feedback. You wanna meet someone, you wanna talk about what you do. You wanna have the interaction of the room. I mean, that's something we just can't get alone in our studio or alone in our booth. We just can't capture it the way we can live. So I, I do think that's one, really important way where you're in a, either a workout or a casting workshop or a showcase, whatever that is. I would put that right into your time management. I also would work with either Anne, your coach, your trainer to really get together the marketing list you wanna get together of casting directors and of agencies that you can be target marketing. I think that's very important and a lot of talent miss that. I think gone are the days of opening up the phone book. We don't really use the phone book that often anymore. Anne: Well, wait, but wait, the Voiceover Resource Guide is coming back. I have to just do a plug for that because if you -- do you remember -- you've been casting direct for a while. You remember the Voiceover Resource Guide, the printed book? Lau: Yes. Anne: That used to be the only thing that basically gave you information for area coaches, area studios and casting directors, and that is making a comeback. And so it, it is in print and also online. So that's a great resource, and BOSSes, I'll be put in that link in our show notes and also any resources, Lau, that are online that you can share with BOSSes, I'll put that as well in the show notes. So you guys can check that out, but continue on Lau about how talent can get in front of first of all, find them, get in front of, and then how can we make a good impression? Like I think that's really what everybody wants to know. Lau: It is. It is, it is. And, and one more I wanna throw in the mix, Anne, and that is, I want you -- not you I want everyone listening in to think about every person that you meet or get in front of or have email contact with is a prospect. So they are a potential casting director. Anne: Yeah. Lau: They don't call themselves that that's not their title and they wouldn't even know what it is if you ask them, but they're the hiring person. They're the decision maker. They're the person who maybe owns their own business and needs vocal talent, doesn't know that they need them. So as you have your business, you have to think, wow, I am gonna look at my suspects and I'm gonna prospect them. And how do I prospect them? I'm gonna go after every organization, every group that I possibly can, that fits my interest of where my voice is. So for instance, I may go after the women's groups. There's a lot of professional women's groups out there that are wonderful, that would love to know, women and men, that would love to know your voices there, to promote their companies, to promote their products and services, to promote their organizations. A lot of them don't even have voiceovers to do that, right? Why not hit them up? They could be your casting director. What about your local chamber of commerce? What about your BNIs? Right? All of those, those are international professional clubs that you can go into and be in front of 10, 20, 50, 100 people at a time that are great prospects for you to then create what I call the rapport before the relationship. The two R's you have to remember when you're trying to get in front of anyone who's doing casting or hiring is, hey, I have to connect with you. I have to have some sort of authentic connection that you're interested in me and I'm interested in you. And then we have to build a relationship together over time. So it's really working in that sphere of understanding that casting is now global. It's now massive. And yes, you have casting directors proper in each city, in each state, but then you have all these businesses that may very well hire you once they know that you're there. Anne: Sure, sure, sure. And you know, I love that you've brought the term casting agent global now. It's really anybody that has a need for your services and that can hire you. And yes, there are traditional casting agents title only that belong to in studios typically. Right? And their job is to cast voice talent all day. And I like that you created a global job for anybody that hires you for your voice. And that's very true. The one thing I think that, BOSSes, you need to take into consideration is the amount of education necessary to connect and find the need for the job. Right? Because a lot of times we're auditioning, we're auditioning, we're auditioning. We're not getting any feedback. We're not getting any gigs. And we turn it all on our own performance. And I speak on this all the time, because I know that mentality. I have many students that talk about it all the time, and they're like, I don't think I belong in this industry anymore because I'm not getting any work. A lot of time, that work depends on the market. It depends on if there is a need at the time for your voice. And that is something that I think we forget as voice talent. We forget that a lot of it is timing based, right? A company may absolutely love your voice for their product, but if they don't have a campaign or they don't have something ready yet to release, they can't hire somebody. And so you just may be like, I'm submitting, submitting, submitting. And maybe just at that point, right, you might be marketing to them, they just don't need your voice yet. And that's when you're doing that kind of marketing and people are like, well, nobody's responding to me. I'm not getting any feedback to my marketing. Well, that may just be a timing issue. That's all it is. So don't always go to the place where, oh no, they didn't like my voice. Lau: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's a business where we have to personalize everything but we can't take anything personal. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Lau: We just have to understand the difference between personalizing your work and me, Lau, feeling like you hit me, you hit me. Well, I have to be careful of that because then I'll be hit all day long, and it won't be about my value. It'll be about me personally, as you gotta keep it to your value. And I do think, Anne, that there's two factors as I look at the years and years of working with talent and connecting them and auditioning them and all that, two very big areas that are common that are the obstacles, the walls that people have a tough time getting through; identified them as focus and fear. Those are typically the two game stoppers for you that I'm scared. I'm terrified. I don't wanna be rejected. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not good enough. That's the fear factor. And then the focus of like, okay, do I understand my schedule? Do I know what I can authentically commit? Am I really putting in the time and energy I need to, to get the ROI that I'm looking for? And oftentimes folks are not doing it. If they're gonna be really honest and transparent, they're not putting in the time and effort that an entrepreneur that owns their own business really needs to put in, right? Anne: So are you talking now? Are they not doing enough auditions or are they not doing enough work to prepare their performance so that they can get hired or both? Lau: It could be all of the above. When we started the conversation, we were talking about casting. And so for looking at finding and prospecting my own casting opportunities, well, how do I do that? I have to put X amount of time into my work week in order to do that. And there was one more I wanted to hit too, Anne, and that was getting my lists together. And if you're connected to great people like Anne, who may be able to help you with, who are the casting directors, and the casting departments, and the agencies proper in the nation that you can then be going, okay, I gotta send, send, send, send, send, I'm gonna Google. I'm gonna get online. I'm gonna look at doing all of that. And it is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Anne: It is, it is. Lau: But it's work we have to do in marketing efforts to understand who is hiring, who is submitting, and who is gone now because after COVID, a lot of businesses unfortunately went down or merged and changed. Anne: Yeah. And one thing I wanna point out BOSSes is that we have had a couple of different episodes on email marketing and just make sure if you are submitting or sending information out that you're abiding by rules and regulations so that you're not considered as spamming. And so be careful with that. It's one of the reasons -- and shameless plug, one of the reasons that I created the VO BOSS Blast is that we can market to a list that has already given us permission of casting directors and production companies that have said, yes, it's okay for us to market to. So that is something you guys can take a look at as well as doing your own research. And then it becomes a marketing challenge, right? How are you going to get in front of these people? And again, then it becomes that timing issue. But as Lau stated, you really do have to put in the effort. And I know how many people, they got into this industry thinking it's gonna be all fun and performance in the studio. Well, believe it or not, a lot of the time really isn't until you get that job, right? You've got to get the job. And then once you've got the job, you can't anticipate that that job will be there forever. You have to continually mine for new prospects and getting in front of new people that can cast you and hire you. So Lau, are there differences over the years in terms of what people are looking for today versus maybe 20 years ago? Let's talk about the difference in the types of voices they're looking for. Lau: Yeah. Well, there's been, I know, you know, this Anna huge swing in diversity casting and rightly so. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: That's been a long time coming. And so we've seen that both on camera and voiceover. Anne: Yeah. And I'm so thankful for that honestly. It's just really brought, I mean, these past years, and it's not to where we need it yet, but I'll tell you what. I've really been enjoying hearing and watching and seeing all the diversity. It's just been amazing. And I just wanted to keep continuing, so. Lau: Absolutely. I'm right there with you and it's been happening now -- Anne: It's been wonderful. Lau: -- solidly -- yeah -- for about three years or so, maybe a little bit longer, which is exciting. And now we have to look at, okay, vocal actors, if you're not in that diversity casting pool, that's okay. You have your value and now you have to do the work to say, how do I prospect the right clients, the right customers, the right casting who's going to be interested in what I'm doing and what my sound is? And, you know, be honest, like, are you a proactive person or are you more of a reactive person? And both are just fine. But one of the common denominators of successful entrepreneurs is that they're proactive, in that we're willing to go out and take action and take a lot of action and do it consistently for a long time, whether we get a return on it or not. I mean, that's just kind of the reality. We can't always depend on someone else doing it for us, and we can't always allow someone else to do it for us. There are certain things we just have to take agency of. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? And our career, our career, our business, VO BOSS, the name of what we do, the branding is ours. And we have to take 100% commitment in that. Anne: Yeah. And you are the marketing department, , you know, you are the accounting department. You are the performance department. You are everything. And just to remind people, and again, I think we forget, we say, I am going to be a voice actor. And so you envision this life where you're gonna be in the studio, auditioning, doing gigs, and the other parts of that business, you kind of say, oh shoot, I have to do those too? And so yeah, you do. And as a matter of fact, that's kind of why there's entire marketing departments in companies that encompass people, like more than one people. And they're full time, as well as accounting people, people full time. So if you wanna run your business successfully, you've got to really remember that this marketing, you may hate it. You can decide to maybe outsource it, but you do have to have control over it being done and/or delegating it to someone. And it is a necessary evil, accounting is a necessary evil. But getting in front of casting directors, people who can hire you, that is a marketing effort and sales really. But if you're doing great marketing, the sales hopefully come automatically. Right? And you don't have to call people up and say, yeah, you know, sell your voice. But if you're doing marketing properly, hopefully it comes your way. And this stems back to a lot of conversations, and I'm sure we can talk about it as well in terms of, is your storefront ready? Do you have your website? Do you have your demos? Are you prepared to market in that respect? It's all encompassing. Lau: And you took the words literally right outta my mouth. That's how I know we're sister sisters. I know this because I was just about to say, I just coached a young man this morning and, and the concern was, ugh, I wanna get to the right agency. I need to be at a big agency. I need to get these kinds of roles. I need to do this. And then when we were actually coaching, there were a lot of issues in his delivery. So always be in coaching, always be training, always have that on your side because casting and agents and producers, you know, really isn't their job to give you feedback. I mean, you're lucky if you get some good feedback from them. A lot of casting were actors before and will just give you feedback, but many won't. And so to have that level of expectation is unrealistic. It's really not their job. Their job is to deal with placement, like recruiters. You're dealing with placement. It's the job of your coach, your trainer, or being in your class. That is really the feedback source that you need to have that piece before you're overly concerned about the business end of it. You don't wanna be marketing something that's not quite ready yet. That's not there or not competitive. Anne: Yeah. I think lifelong learners, I think as performers, whether you are acting on camera, whatever it is, theater and voiceover, I think we continually have to be lifelong learners. I mean, that's, as an educator, that's what I love so much. That's why I was in education I think because I love to learn and I am a lifelong learner. And so that includes your performance and everything that you do and your business to be continually learning. And you have to consider investment. Not everything is free. Sometimes you can train for free. There's a lot of great resources out there, but sometimes you do have to make an investment in it and you can't be surprised by that. And you can't complain. They complain about the cost of coaching, the cost of demos, the cost of marketing. But guys, that's just a reality. That is an investment in your business. And yes, maybe there are some things that cost more than you anticipated, but it is something that I think as a good business BOSS, right, you have to anticipate and you have to put that money away for that coaching. That always helps. So to get yourself in front of that casting director, now you're in front of them. You wanna be able to impress them with your performance and you wanna have something that's relevant and current. And so studying also I think trends, right? Go to iSpot, listen to current commercials, go to YouTube and listen to current voiceover. Now I'm the first person to say that not everything you hear is gonna be the right or great voiceover, but I think you can develop an ear for great voiceover. Lau: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, having that training piece on your side like having it in, in your back pocket, the professional development, the education you're right, Anne, it's just a lifelong thing. And I often tell my clients, we're not off the hook. They somehow look at us and think, you guys are the BOSS. You own the world, you know, everything you're done. Anne: You're getting, you're getting that work for me. . Lau: And I'm telling you, they don't understand that we're always growing businesses. We're always leveling up. We're always investing and reinvesting, and fixing problems, and doing things better. It's never done. There isn't the sense of, oh, I did it. I got my demos. I'm done. No, you're just starting. You're really just beginning. You're not done. You're only at the beginning. And that's what business is like, a general sense. It's like, you always feel like you're starting and restarting based off what your new objectives and your purpose is. Quarter one, I have a new purpose. Now, quarter two comes, I repurpose that. And now I got a new objective. So I have to be able to understand that and know that the truth is our profession is a drop in the bucket, not to minimize the way people feel. 'Cause I totally empathize. Especially in the middle of inflation, believe me, I get you. I get you. But I'm telling you it's a drop in the bucket compared to going to medical school. It is a drop in the bucket compared to my friends who went for an MBA to be a financial advisor. And even actors that are friends of mine that went through three year conservatory degrees come out owing $200,000, $300,000 that they may never be able to pay off. What we are investing, Anne, is incremental. It's not overnight. It's really significantly lower than a lot of other industries out there and what they call upon just to get to the point of an interview for a job. Anne: Right. Now you did mention, and I just was asking like how things have evolved and changed over the years in terms of what casting directors are looking for. And diversity was absolutely number one out of your mouth there. And I agree with that. What else is there? I'm gonna say that natural, believable, authentic style of delivery for sure, which is 90% of casting specs when they come through. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Lau: Mm-hmm. I know that's true. That's the thing everyone gets annoyed with is like, ugh, the natural, the conversational, the connected. Anne: That's the hardest, Lau: it's the hardest. Whether you're a voiceover or an on camera, they just don't wanna hear you act. Anne: Yep, yep. Lau: They just don't want you exaggerated. They don't want you to call attention to your style. They just want to connect to you as a very, very authentic real person. So yeah. It's super important. It's the thing. It represents a whole, actually the largest generation in the United States, which is millennials right now represents them. Right? So that's something we'd absolutely have to pay attention to. Anne: Even promo by the way, even promo is going more conversational by the way. I thought that was so interesting because I hosted Rick Wasserman the other night for VO Peeps. And he said, yeah, they're looking for conversational promo. No more of the announcer style. So. Lau: That amazes me. That really does. That's so true. That amazes me. I wanted to say in casting, now we look for people who have their own built-in audience. Anne: Yes. Lau: That was not a thing. like, I'm not a digital native. I didn't grow up with a computer. Right? Like I literally learned how to turn a computer on at 32 years old. All right. So I'm off the hook a little bit, but the younger generation is not off the hook. They have to come in with their own built-in audience. What I mean by that is a lot of casting will ask you, okay, for your social media, what's your fan base like? What are your numbers like? Who's on your Insta channel? Who's this? Who's that and you're taken aback going, what, why are they asking me this? Because oftentimes they wanna ride. They wanna ride on their coattails of your current audience. Right? So they wanna take people in that already have this built in fan club. So the persona, yeah, the personality really weighs heavily even for voiceover. Anne: And I think that's gonna be that's gonna be another episode, all about social media and social media etiquette, which has become just chaotic. And I think that it's important that as companies and BOSSes, we understand how to represent those companies and our products online. And that's very important, I think, to casting directors these days. So. Lau: Yeah. It's the wild west for sure. And, and dealing with protocol and etiquette but, and again, for listeners who are going, oh no, I'm 55, and I don't know anything about that. It doesn't make you or break you. This is not like, if you don't have it, you're not gonna work. It's just, what are the waves? What are the trends? What are things that we're paying attention to that we find people are really looking for? And that's one of those. Anne: Yeah. Oh good stuff, Lau. Good stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Thank you so much again for being here and dropping those nuggets of wisdom to the BOSS listeners. I'm very excited for our future episodes. BOSSes, by the way, if you are looking to have your voice make an impact, you absolutely can. And you can give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And also as always, we love our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Lau, thank you so much. And we'll see you next week, BOSSes. Bye! Lau: My pleasure. Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The hardest boss you'll ever work for is yourself. In this episode, Anne & Lau jump into Business Superpowers by recounting Lau's many interesting jobs and career shifts. She has been an actor, a voice talent, a manager, a professor, but most importantly, she is fierce in the face of fear. If you feel nervous, excited, or scared about a new opportunity, run towards it. What's the worst that could happen? Failures and mistakes teach you more than success ever will, and with every overnight success comes years of unnoticed hard work. If that's not enough motivation for you, tune in for the full career deep dive with your favorite self-employed Bosses! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to start another brand new series, Business Superpowers with special guest Lau Lapides. Lau is founder and president of Lau Lapides Company, a boutique coaching, training, and production company for voice talent and actors headquartered in Boston with satellites in New York City, Miami, and LA. Her programs include hybrid online and in-person workshops, seminars, and one-on-one personalized coaching as well as showcases in New York City, LA, and online. Lau's media and broadcasting career coaches all currently work in television, film, radio, and theater, and their voices can be heard around the world. Lau, it is so much fun to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Lau: I'm so excited to be here. Like I can't believe it. We finally met each other, got together, east meets west. Anne: Here we go. Lau: Here we go. . Anne: I'm just so excited that you agreed to do this. And I'm so excited about our series, the Business Superpowers, because we've got a lot to talk about. So let's start with you so that our BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. Let's talk a little bit about your history, how you got started, and how you became such a BOSS in this industry. Lau: Wow. Thank you for that introduction. I appreciate it. I always feel like BOSS term in regards to me and personally has been like the overnight success. You know, when someone comes to you, Anne, and says, I wanna have it overnight, I wanna get that dream. Let's go. And I say, yeah, you can be an overnight success. Absolutely. A 40-year overnight success. Anne: Yeah, I always say my overnight success happened 12 years later. Sorry. Or at least you've gotta start with that. Lau: That's right. Anne: It's true. Lau: I always feel that way that it, it really has been such a lifelong process, such an amazing journey. The path splits off in so many directions. It's hard to even think about what the origins really were, but I'll tell you I was a dancer. Believe it or not. I was a dancer. Anne: And I was an engineer, so, wow. That's pretty cool. There you go. Lau: There you go. Same thing in a lot of ways, right? Walking, choreography. Anne: Right. But you don't always think, well, you'd end up with your own company in voice acting and, and acting, so. Lau: No, no. If someone were to tell me that I would do this 30, 40 years later, I would've laughed. I would've fell off my chair. I would not have believed it. So I started off as a dancer who really didn't speak at all. And then I went into an acting career. I had a whole acting career for a good 20 years, went through top level graduate program at UC Irvine in California. And that really changed my life, your neck of the woods. Anne: East and west. Here we go. So . Lau: East and west, east and west. And so after having this extensive theater background, I did a lot of repertory, a lot of regional, a lot of stock, became Equity, became an Equity actor, yada yada, so on and so forth. I ended up at grad school in California. That was really a turn for me. I started getting into a lot of media driven entertainment, started doing more TV/film, started my voiceover as a voiceover talent as a performer, really mid to late 20s. It was kind of later for me and then just kind of launched in that direction. And once I got my master's degree, I became a professor. I became a college and university professor and one of my specialties was to create curriculum . So I made my way back to New York. I lived in New York and I started creating curriculum all while I was acting and directing, 'cause I had also become a director and producer. Anne: I was gonna say, acting curriculum? Lau: Acting curriculum but it was interesting, Anne. The twist is, and this is where the whole BOSS in business situation starts to enter my world, is I was approached by top business colleges, and this was really out of my realm. Honestly, I'll be quite transparent with you. I knew nothing about that. I think I had business savvy, but I had the mind of a creative. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: I was actor, voice talent, director. You know, I was on the other side of it, and all of a sudden I got approached by Harvard. I got approached by Babson. I got approached by Bentley. These were all the top business colleges at that time, now universities, Boston University saying all kind of like the similar theme. What is the problem and how can I fix it? So I knew right away, they all had a problem or a need. And it was, we want programming for our business students that is creative and teaches them how to speak. Anne: Mm yes. Right? Important. Lau: It's very important. Anne: To be, to speak and present. I know that for sure. We have so many parallels, you and I, because I was 20 years in education and started up as an engineer, and I was on the east coast and then started my voiceover career a little bit later. So I had what I consider the creative in the engineering aspect, in the technology aspect and then in education, because I got so geeky and excited about it, I wanted to share it. So then I taught and, and then it just, it became all these passions and loves of mine. And then ultimately I started a full time voiceover career after that and moved west. So we have so many parallels. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And you're absolutely right. The business aspect of things is so important in the creative. I think a lot of students that come to me, and I'm sure you're familiar with this, they feel stuck in their jobs. And they need the creativity, and that's exactly like, what's that problem? Like where's the creativity in your job and where is that outlet? And a lot of times people turn to the creative arts, which is fantastic that you had that left brain, right brain 50-50, which is something that I was always told I was very good at, that you could relate on both sides of the thing. And so fantastic. So now bring us up to date now. You're currently still on the east coast? Lau: Yes I am. And skip 10 years, got an offer to open a studio. It was the right time. I got a brick and mortar. I was very excited about it. Always wanted to have a studio, had been now teaching for a good decade, had been now directing. While I was still performing, I was acting and doing voiceover all the way through. There was something in me, Anne, that wanted to be a leader. And here's the interesting thing I wanted to bring out about being in business programs. I got an education by default. So I started to learn that I could be educated by the students I was teaching. Anne: Oh gosh, yes mm-hmm. Lau: Right? So these were students from all over the world. They were undergrad, graduate, MBA, fast track people, every country in the world. And I started to learn what I needed to know as a business woman to then open a studio. So when I was 40, I opened a studio and I opened first an actor division. First I opened an actor division, and then about two years later came my voiceover division. And this was in the first recession. One of the worst recessions we had in the country was the first five years of my business. And so I knew I was either gonna sink or swim this was it. And somehow we made it through. It started to explode. What I thought was a luxury based business or a dream based business really turned into a reality and something very pragmatic that people were looking for to solve that problem, to fill that need in them. You know, what do I do next in my life? Or how do I restart a career? Or how do I live my dream? And we were learning, we meaning myself and then I hired a staff of like six to eight really amazing coaches from all over the place, to help me realize this team leadership, client centered kind of philosophy that I had in my head after teaching for 10 years all these amazing up and coming entrepreneurs. And so that was an amalgamation of all those years. I had no business model. I should have. I didn't. My business model was hardcore. It was like, my dad always taught me. He was a great entrepreneur. And he said, put the key in the door, show up early and just go to work. Anne: Well, I was just gonna say to you, you talk about, well, I just opened up a studio. Like, oh, it was like literally a split second of our conversation. But in reality, like, I need to know like that is a BOSS move. Like there's a lot of things that go into saying, oh, I'm going to open up a studio. And I'm sure that you probably went through, oh my gosh, like, how am I gonna get the money and will I make money? And you didn't have a business plan, but I love how you just said put the key in the ignition and just go. I think that says a lot for just foraging ahead and manifesting success for yourself because I can only imagine how difficult that is. And BOSSes out there, I mean, as entrepreneurs, this is something that you really need to do when it comes time to taking that leap of faith and going for it and making this a business that you can support yourself with, I mean, and make money. I mean, it's the reason why we create businesses is so that we can make money. And that's just such an important factor. So this is the same studio right now that you're working out of, the one that you've opened? Lau: This is another one. We've moved since, and of course COVID had changed everything for everyone. So, you know, everyone has home studios now. Everyone has condensed down. Everyone has compressed. We are just getting back to live in studio again and traveling. We just came back from a showcase that we produce, our company produces in New York City and then a week-long competitive convention that we are a part of. So we're just literally now getting back to physically getting on a train, going to New York, going back into studios. And that's also part of our mainstay is to connect voice talent to people live if possible in an industry. Anne: So let's talk about the pandemic because as a studio, how did you survive during the pandemic? I mean, you've gotta pivot. So not only are you just opening brick and mortar studios, which have become with the progression of home studios, being something that everybody's got, that's a tough biz anyway, right? So, and then the pandemic, which pretty much just cut off all in person, in studio gigs. How did you survive and how did you pivot during that time? Lau: Yeah, I mean, so I'll take it to a moment 'cause you know how it is about life, Anne. There's so much you can talk about, but you gotta get down to the nugget of what you really wanna say. There was a moment for me in COVID, and to get back to your comments about the putting the key in the door, how does it feel, the terror that you have inside of you, the fear of failure, the how do I make the rental? This is all internal life that I had inside of me, as many BOSSes have inside of the, of saying I have to feel the fear and then I have to do it anyway. So if I feel the fear, I acknowledge it. I affirm it. It's natural. Now I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna take that calculated risk. So to answer your question, there was a moment in COVID where I thought, okay, all production has gone down for actors. Voiceover is still great, viable and running. What do I film now? Like I'm a good, good problem solver. What's the need that we need right now? And at the time I was sitting in Boston thinking, what does New England need? And I came to me, we needed a voiceover division. We have no voiceover divisions that run out of agencies in New England. Like I know out of the major hubs. And I said, huh, how do I create that? So I immediately started reaching out to agency friends and colleagues, 'cause we work with everyone everywhere, and certainly in new England, we know the handful that are out there. And the bite that I got was a, a friend and colleague of mine, Tim Ayers, who's amazing and has Run Model Club Inc out of Boston for many years. He's owned it for about 10, 12 years. And it's been existence for a good 30 years. A lot of us are repped by them in the New England market. And I reached out to him, and he just had that progressive moment of saying, listening to his meshugene crazy friend Lau, just spout on, in the middle of COVID and all he said was yeah, yeah. Do it. I don't know anything about voiceover, so you're gonna have to do that. And I said, great! Not knowing anything, anything about being an agent or becoming an agent. So I had done casting. I had done producing, I was an actor, certainly a voiceover talent, but I had never been an agent. Anne: But you had all the knowledge and all of the industries surrounding it and the things that you would need to know to be a good agent actually. So I think all of you -- this had prepared you for the moment to become an agent. Lau: Right. But going back to your question earlier, which was brilliant is you are in that moment, you feel excited. And then when you realize the reality you go, ooh, that's a little scary. That's a little terrifying. Now I have to know stuff. Now I have to like now I have to lead. Anne: Not just a little terrifying. It's pretty much terrifying. Just saying. Lau: It's terrifying. And then when I felt it, I knew I was on the right track because that was the challenge that -- Anne: When you're scared. Lau: When you're scared, yeah, you need to jump out of the plane. You need to jump off the cliff. You really do. And I always think to myself, and I pass this on to clients and talent. I say, what's the worst that's gonna happen, really? I wasn't sinking a lot of capital or a lot of money into that, you know? No one really knew I was doing it. I said the worst is it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And that's okay. I will learn a lot from the not working if it doesn't work. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's a learning opportunity. Lau: it is. It really is. I think everything is to be honest with you. And I think once we make mistakes and once we do the wrong thing, we learn even more oftentimes than when we do the right thing. Anne: Absolutely. So then you developed your voiceover division. And that is now running strong and now you're starting to come back in studio as well? Lau: Yes. Yes. Anne: Fantastic. Lau: Yes. So, you know, the agency of course is mostly online nowadays, you know. Tim works online. I work online. Very rarely are we seeing actors or voice talent in person. It's just not necessary. It's expensive to do that. It's time consuming. And so we had to learn how to be a hybrid business model. We had to learn that. Anne: Sure, sure. Now what sorts of things are you doing in studio these days? Lau: Well, we have a handful of folks that come to us. And the interesting part about it, Anne, is we have a really unique model. Our model now runs as the studio, which is Lau Lapides Company. That's our training production base. That's totally separate than the agency. The agency is under Tim. He's the owner-operator. I'm his lead agent that launched the voiceover division, MCVO. Anne: Got it. Lau: And they run parallel to each other. And it's fascinating. It's really interesting to see where are the crossovers and where's the distinctive separation, because in essence I'm a, for lack of a better term, a hired consultant to launch a division, but yet we're the ones who know how to run it. We're the ones who know the world. We're the ones who are bringing in all of the talent in the roster. So it's a very interesting kind of parallel that we walk. The people that we see in person, mainly coaching, mainly studio clients that will come in. Maybe they'll need to do a recording or they'll need a coaching session, or they just wanna come in and talk about their career. And there's always a group of people that are geographically local enough to do that and wanna have that in person experience. Then everyone else is online. Anne: Yeah. Technology is a beautiful thing, but also in person is something I think through that pandemic, I mean, people are just desperate to get out for face to face, an in person meetings, sessions. And I think that hybrid is really a wonderful thing. I remember myself when I moved from the east coast to the west coast -- it's funny because you said you wanted to be a leader, and I missed teaching. I missed leading a group, and that's what created my desire to start the VO Peeps. And that was a group that I wanted to lead and bring educational initiatives to. And it's just something that was wonderful at the time. And because I started in Southern California, there was only a certain amount of people that I could reach out to locally. And because I had such a background in technology, I was one of the first meetup groups to both stream meetings personally, as well as onto the Internet. So I had a very hybrid group. And so I could actually at that point become a global networking group. And that became something that I did long time ago, back in 2000 and, I think 2010 I started to do that at the time. Not many people were doing it. And so it became a really wonderful way to just reach out to a much broader audience. So you have such a, a wonderfully wide audience. So even though you're located on the east coast, you have a widespread reach that is global, which is something that, as voice talent today, it's something that we need to address and understand the market in that way. Because gosh, when I started doing voiceover, a home studio wasn't even a thought. It was a luxury. Some people, oh, they dabbled in it. And other than that, you just have to go to the studio and, and audition and do the jobs and getting the work was -- that was before pay to plays. And really the agent was the person who served you. Let's get a little bit more in depth with, let's say the casting processes. I feel like if you had to sum up like, what one thing do you do the most of right now? Or is it all things? Is it casting? Is it performance? Is it managing? What is it that you do that consumes your day? Or what's a day like for Lau? Lau: I would say managing. You brought it up. That's the word managing and management as you know, Anne, is hard. It's challenging. It's about how you deal with temperament, balance, time, energy, you know, it's all those things. How do you have longevity to keep going? How do you maintain stamina? How do you hold grace and not lose your patience? There's so much that goes into an education about how do you run a business? How do you manage people? How do you manage yourself? How do you keep yourself in line? I always joke with my people. I say really, honestly, I work for the hardest boss I've ever worked for. Anne: Yourself. Lau: She's tough. And that's me. Anne: I love that. That's I get. Yeah, I get that. Lau: Like I can stand outside and be honest about that and say, wow, she's a bitch. Sometimes I have to be really tough. And sometimes I have to be really strong, and sometimes I have to be really vulnerable and empathize with situations that I myself may or may not, or I myself may or may not think is a big deal. So I think the management factor of making an eclectic, diverse program run along with the agency division is a lot of the circus plates in the air. It's really a lot of that. And I realize I'm gonna drop plates at times. I realize I'm gonna set myself on fire at times. And I always have some sort of extinguisher waiting, you know what I mean? Like you're gonna get burned. That's just the reality of it. But yeah, so we're coaching all the time. We are working on jobs and gigs all the time. This was a great week for us. We hooked a lot of our agency MCVOs up with some great gigs this week, three big jobs we landed this week. So it's a lot of balancing act, and it's a lot about getting to people quickly, right? People want responses, being responsive quickly. Anne: I have to completely agree with that. And as a manager, right, as a boss, we expect those things of ourselves, of people we're dealing with. And I wanna kind of just bring what you've said in perspective for, let's say, people just coming into the industry. You may not have people to manage yet, but you absolutely have to manage yourself. And also part of the growing and part of growth, even as a small business entrepreneur -- you don't have to open up a studio to be managing things and managing people. Because I've talked about this on previous episodes and I'm sure Lau and I will talk about this as outsourcing. You will have to manage people, manage your business, and to do so successfully requires some skills that you can learn as you go. I mean, I think it's a wonderful thing. Once you become an entrepreneur and you're not necessarily -- you know, I worked in corporate for many years and I worked in education, which is another form of working for someone else. When it comes time to working for yourself, you're probably the hardest boss. And that includes not just the aspects of the business, but you're also hard on yourself personally, because what you're selling is part of a brand of yourself. You are a personal brand. And so not only is it doubly hard, I think, because you don't have a physical product necessarily to offset. Right now, if you're hard on someone, you're also hard on yourself because now you're gonna be hard on your product, which is your voice and your performance. And it's a very personal thing, which makes I think being an entrepreneur in our industry very difficult. You have to try to separate yourself so that you're not affecting your product by being hard on your performance or hard on your growth or lack of growth. Lau: That is beautiful, Anne, just perfect. And you have to play paradoxes every single day of your life. You have to play these opposites, which feel really weird and uncomfortable. Like on one hand, you have to be super hard on yourself so that you can perform, you can produce, and you can do it in a timely manner. And then on the other hand, you have to go easy on yourself. You have to forgive yourself. You have to not hold yourself to standards that are insanely ridiculous. You know what I mean? And you have to treat yourself as a human being because if you beat yourself up too much, you're just not gonna last long. You're not gonna have the esteem and the confidence to really last long in the industry. So you have to play these kind of opposites, this antithetical effect all the time, and go back and forth from it, and kind of say, hey, I need to do this. I need to get this done. It's important, but hey, wait a second. Where's the flexibility in it? How can I do it again better? What did I learn from it? And really kind of fluidly go back and forth from that mindset. Anne: Right. And it's not something, as we both mentioned in the beginning of this podcast, it's not something that happens a few times like a day or week. I mean, we're talking to really be successful in this industry in a marathon, not a sprint, right? Our overnight success took 12 years or 40 years, whatever that is, that is continue -- and I don't know if the fear factor for me got easier or I just dealt with it better because if I'm not doing something every day that scares me, then I'm not growing. And if I'm stagnating, that is the death of me. That is where I felt I was when I worked in the corporate world. I felt like it just wasn't growing. And that is something to me and my psyche and my development is really important. Lau: It's super important. I love that quote too. That's I think a famous Eleanor Roosevelt quote is do something every day that scares you. You know, and never, never, never give up. So there's that element of, yeah. I need to be afraid, but not so terrified that I'm paralyzed. You know, I like to say now analysis can be paralysis. Like don't overthink it too much. Don't overanalyze it too much because you can find a reason why not to do things all the time. Anne: Oh, gosh. Lau: Right? Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. There's ways -- I'm a good procrastinator on certain things. Lau: I think most people are. Anne: Those are the things I wanna outsource. I wanna outsource those things, but. Lau: But you know what you said earlier, which was so true is like the delegation effect, learning how to delegate, learning how to -- Anne: Let go control. Lau: Yes. Anne: That's me. I'm a control freak. Did you notice that about me yet? Lau: Listen, you and me are gonna start that club because I am a self-professed control freak too. And part of that is a beautiful gift because you wanna have that sense of like, I can fully 100% manage what's going on, but we have to know that, you know, at the end of the day, we don't really have control over anything. It's like an illusion, you know? Anne: You're right. And I'm learning as I grow that it's impossible for me to grow without delegating and letting go control because I'm only one person with only so many hours in a day. And so I cannot grow my business without letting go of some of that control and trusting. And then it becomes a whole 'nother lesson I think in growing your business is trusting your team and getting people on board with you that believe in you, believe in your process, believe in the company and that you have a mutual respect for each other. And I always say that, you know, I treat my employees like gold because they really are gold to me, and I make sure they're paid well. I make sure all those things that scare me and say, oh my God, can I afford to do this? Do I have a budget? I make the budget. Right? And so again, you have to throw out a lot of faith, a lot of faith that things will come to you if you put it out there and that you are putting your faith in your employees and they have a sense of loyalty and pride and want to work with you for success of the company. And that's a really hard thing if you're not used to doing that, if you've worked for someone else for all your life and that's scary thing. Lau: And it's a skill. You're right, it's a soft skill. But ironically, it's a hard skill. It really is. And you need to cultivate it to some degree because you want to have your team, your village, your tribe, whatever you call them, no person is an island. I'm telling you, I could not build the studio myself. I had my family, my husband, my own children who now work in the business with me. I mean, it's immense, the help that and assistance that you need as you grow. And just like identifying, you have to be able to identify who are my people that are really great, and they're supportive, and they're helpful? And then who are the people who are the growth people? Those are the people who can really help you grow and level up in your business to the next tier and really not mixing up. Yeah, not mixing up the two, 'cause they're very different people, equally valuable and equally loved. I'll use that word love. I think you need to love people. Anne: And -- I agree -- and of course, even harder I think is if the people are not necessarily a fit for you and in letting go and in making that decision. There's that whole boss-employee kind of relationship. Are they friends as well? And there's a lot of delicate things in there, which, oh gosh, we could spend a whole 'nother podcast probably talking about that. Lau: We could, we could spend forever talking about that. . Anne: And actually I think we will, but I'm gonna say for today, Lau, thank you so much. It's been a wonderful privilege to have you coming on the show. I'm excited for our future episodes of BOSS Superpowers, of Business Superpowers. And so thank you so much for your wisdom today and telling us a little bit about yourself. And BOSSes out there, I want you to know that as individuals, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, you can help contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible. And you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Also a great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, Lau. Bye. Lau: Thank you, Anne. Loved it. Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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