Podcasts about Reinventing Organizations

In this episode: Tax Changes Coming: New tax legislation is expected, though details remain unclear. Income vs. Consumption Tax: Some Republicans propose replacing income tax with a national sales tax—unlikely to gain traction. IRS Under Pressure: Talk of abolishing the IRS is unrealistic. Staffing cuts and layoffs have worsened service, especially for notice resolution. Startup Deductions: A proposed bill would raise the startup cost deduction from $5K to $20K, easing the burden on new businesses. Contractor vs. Employee Crackdown: IRS is stepping up enforcement. Misclassification risks penalties—accurate documentation is key. Section 530 Relief: Offers protection if contractors were treated consistently and proper forms were filed. Americans Abroad: U.S. citizens must pay tax on worldwide income but can exclude up to $130K if they meet certain residency tests. We are joined by, Brett Emmons, founder of the BE LIFE Institute, who shares his journey from youth empowerment to launching a movement that bridges personal and professional growth. Inspired by a chance encounter and the book Reinventing Organizations, Brett helps business and nonprofit leaders evolve their organizations using systems that mirror living ecosystems—emphasizing shared leadership, intention, and adaptability. Through retreats, masterminds, and coaching, BE LIFE empowers leaders to harmonize life and work, unlocking what Brett calls “whole life wealth.”

The secret to better leadership in the future of work isn't knowing everything, but mastering the right things. This episode brings together three leadership visionaries—Diego Barreto, CEO of iFood; Jeff Kindler, former CEO of Pfizer; and Frederic Laloux, author of Reinventing Organizations—to share the tools you need to lead smarter in the new world of work. You'll learn why mastering one skill at a time, encouraging constructive disagreement, and embracing self-management are the keys to navigating uncertainty, driving better decisions, and building agile teams.   ________________ Start your day with the world's top leaders by joining thousands of others at Great Leadership on Substack. Just enter your email: ⁠⁠https://greatleadership.substack.com/

Episode SummaryIn this episode of Maintainable, Robby sits down with Carola Lilienthal, Software Architect and Managing Director at WPS. Together, they explore the intersection of cognitive science and software architecture, strategies for tackling technical debt, and why simplicity, modularity, and domain knowledge are crucial for maintainability.Carola shares her approach to improving legacy systems, fostering domain-driven development, and introducing sustainable patterns into software design. She also discusses the Modularity Maturity Index (MMI), a tool her team has used to assess and improve over 300 systems.Topics Covered[00:00:43] What makes software maintainable?[00:01:24] The importance of clear structure, modularity, and simplicity in software.[00:02:38] How patterns help reduce complexity and onboard developers faster.[00:04:42] Addressing the challenges of systems with mixed architectural patterns.[00:06:20] Strategies for fostering creativity while maintaining simplicity.[00:07:05] How to guide teams to balance technical experimentation and maintainability.[00:14:03] Practical techniques for documenting architecture and decisions.[00:16:17] What is the Modularity Maturity Index (MMI), and how does it measure system health?[00:18:02] Common mistakes in managing technical debt and how to avoid them.[00:21:20] Why domain knowledge is essential for innovation and problem-solving.[00:33:03] Evolving legacy systems with domain-driven design and transformation.Key TakeawaysModularity matters: Simplified, modular systems with high cohesion and loose coupling reduce cognitive load and technical debt.Patterns as a shared language: Establishing a pattern language within your team creates consistency and eases onboarding.Cognitive science in software: Architecture aligned with how our brains process complexity results in more maintainable systems.Domain knowledge drives innovation: Teams should focus their creativity on solving domain-specific problems, not over-complicating the architecture.The value of architecture documentation: Keeping clear decision records helps teams navigate legacy code and onboard new developers.Resources MentionedCarola's LinkedInWPS WebsiteCarola's books:Sustainable Software ArchitectureDomain-Driven Transformation (English version coming soon)Modularity Maturity Index OverviewBooks Carola recommends:Reinventing Organizations by Frédéric LalouxTeam Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel PaisBe sure to follow Carola on LinkedIn and X.Thanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Send us a textIn this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Vinisha Rathod, founder of P3 Studios (People, Partnerships, Purpose), shares her expertise on organizational scaling and leadership development. She introduces her framework of "Five Hindrances to Scaling" which includes focus, family, financials, feedback receptiveness, and funnel efficiency. Vinisha emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between people and positions, particularly as organizations grow and evolve.A key highlight is her discussion on creating healthy organizational cultures, drawing parallels between high-performing sports teams and effective workplace dynamics. She addresses crucial topics such as leadership transition, the challenges of title inflation, and the importance of having difficult conversations about organizational structure. Vinisha shares valuable insights from her experience working with companies across Australia and the Middle East.The conversation also explores innovative approaches to organizational design, referencing examples from "Reinventing Organizations" and discussing practical methods for improving workplace communication and decision-making. Vinisha offers fascinating perspectives on humanizing the workplace, including the impact of bringing children and pets into office spaces, and how COVID-19 has transformed our view of leadership.Support the show

Lors de mon voyage au Québec pour explorer le futur du travail, j'ai eu la chance de rencontrer Michel Bundock.Michel est un leader visionnaire qui a passé 35 ans au sein d'un Groupement de chefs d'entreprise, aujourd'hui connu sous le nom d'Entre chefs PME, dont il a dirigé les 15 dernières années.Dans cet épisode, Michel nous partage son parcours unique, depuis ses débuts comme explorateur et guide dans les parcs nationaux jusqu'à son engagement dans l'exploration de nouvelles formes de gouvernance.On aborde ensemble des questions clés sur l'évolution du rapport au travail et les besoins des collaborateurs dans un monde en mutation.Que cherchent vraiment les individus au travail ?Et comment les entreprises peuvent-elles devenir des lieux d'épanouissement durable ?Michel nous parle aussi de ce qu'il appelle les "6 évolutions stratégiques", des principes essentiels pour transformer une organisation en un modèle d'inspiration.Et bien sûr, il nous éclaire sur l'holacratie, ce modèle qu'il a adopté et expérimenté dans son organisation, partageant les défis, les succès, et les leçons tirées en chemin.Vous y trouverez d'ailleurs, quelques exemples concrets à tester dans votre propre entreprise.Sans plus attendre, plongeons dans cette exploration inspirante avec Michel Bundock. Bonne écoute !------- Contacter Michel : https://bundockaccompagnement.com/Évoqué pendant l'épisode : Reinventing Organizations, de Frederic Laloux------_____

Veja este episódio também no Youtube. Diana Grilo Silva é “Head of Interactions” na Critical Techworks (CTW), uma empresa software que resulta de uma ‘joint-venture' entre a portuguesa Critical Software e a BMW, e que se distingue por várias práticas de gestão radical, que dão forma a uma nova forma de trabalhar, disruptiva, horizontal e autónoma. A Diana é formada em Engenharia Informática pela Universidade de Évora, e antes da CTW passou pela Nokia e pela Talkdesk, entre outras empresas.    -> Apoie este podcast e faça parte da comunidade de mecenas do 45 Graus em: 45grauspodcast.com -> Registe-se para ser avisado(a) de futuras edições dos workshops de Pensamento Crítico: https://forms.sendpulse.com/7e62c1e4f5 _______________ Índice: (0:00) Introdução (5:44) Como pode uma empresa crescer sem ficar mais vertical, com mais níveis hierárquicos? | Seguir o exemplo das células e da mitose (14:58) Equipas em autogestão e separar responsabilidade de gestão entre delivery e gestão de pessoas | O que faz um(a) SCRUM master? (34:16) Gestão e a armadilha do Princípio de Peter (40:59) Um método radical para a avaliação de desempenho e feedback. | Avaliação na CT, baseada em 4 atributos principais. | É a própria pessoa que decide! (49:18) Aprender a dar feedback | No inicio é sempre estranho. Começar com perguntas. (1:08:33) Metodologia Scrum. Usar Scrum para fazer obras em casa? |  (1:12:02) Importância de incentivar a experimentação. “Falhar depressa” | Sandboxing | Post-mortem (1:17:40) O que nos motiva no trabalho? TED Talk Dan Pink | Lei de Goodhart (1:35:05) Desafios de ser mulher na área tecnológica (artigo da convidada) Livros recomendados: Reinventing Organizations, Frederic Laloux | The Connected Company, Dave Gray | Holacracy: The New Management System for a Rapidly Changing World, Brian J. Robertson ______________ Esta conversa foi editada por: DBF Estúdio  

Quand on parle de milieux de travail plus progressistes, c'est immanquable : quelqu'un finit toujours par demander si on connaît "Reinventing Organizations", par Frédéric Laloux. Et il y a de quoi. Ce livre représente est toute une révélation, et remet en question bien des principes fondamentaux du monde du travail. Spécialement le Taylorisme.Alors, aujourd'hui, nous allons passer à travers les 5 types d'organisations selon Frédéric Laloux. Pour ceux qui ne connaissent pas encore ça on expère vraiment que votre monde s'ébranle aussi un peu :)Alors, votre environnement de travail à vous, il a quelle teinte?Les épisodes de Go Pyrate! sont rendus possibles grâce à l'implication de nos membres Patreon. Nos membres ont un accès privilégié à Olivier, à la communauté Pyrate sur Discord, un accès anticipé aux épisodes, un accès à un épisode exclusif aux membres par mois. Pour en savoir plus, visitez Go Pyrate! sur Patreon.

Johann Botha: The Pitfalls of Traditional Project Management in Software Development Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Project management struggles to deliver successful software projects because customers often don't know what they want upfront, and the world around us changes too quickly. Johann reflects on the outdated thinking rooted in the Industrial Age that hampers modern software development. How can an iterative approach help teams deliver projects on time and within budget? Johann shares insights on why traditional project management often fails in dynamic environments and discusses how concepts from books like Reinventing Organizations and The Machine That Changed the World can transform management practices.   [IMAGE HERE] Recovering from failure, or difficult moments is a critical skill for Scrum Masters. Not only because of us, but also because the teams, and stakeholders we work with will also face these moments! We need inspiring stories to help them, and ourselves! The Bungsu Story, is an inspiring story by Marcus Hammarberg which shows how a Coach can help organizations recover even from the most disastrous situations! Learn how Marcus helped The Bungsu, a hospital in Indonesia, recover from near-bankruptcy, twice! Using Lean and Agile methods to rebuild an organization and a team! An inspiring story you need to know about! Buy the book on Amazon: The Bungsu Story - How Lean and Kanban Saved a Small Hospital in Indonesia. Twice. and Can Help You Reshape Work in Your Company.   About Johann Botha Johann joins us from South Africa, helping build digital-age capabilities by developing practical skills to solve problems, grow people, and facilitate difficult change. A long-time proponent of Lean and Agile, Johann consults, coaches, speaks, and writes on the topic. He is also the chief examiner for the EXIN Agile Scrum product. You can link with Johann on LinkedIn and connect with Johann on Twitter.

In this episode, Lyssa joined Shahin to delve into the evolving landscape of leadership and Agile coaching, offering valuable insights and resources. She highlights the skills essential for thriving in an increasingly uncertain world and discusses her efforts to elevate leadership consciousness to address complex global challenges. Topics Covered: Importance of Adaptive Skills: Lyssa emphasizes the need for professionals to develop the ability to adapt to change, work creatively, and collaborate effectively, rather than focusing solely on technical skills. Leadership and Mental Complexity: The conversation explores how leaders can enhance their mental complexity to better navigate the complexities of today's world, making decisions that benefit their organizations and the broader ecosystem. Elevate Change: Lyssa shares her thoughts on the concept of "elevating change," emphasizing that change should not be feared but embraced as an opportunity for growth and innovation. Planetary Challenges: Lyssa discusses the critical role of conscious leadership in addressing global issues such as climate change, mass migration, and societal instability. Collaboration with Frederic Laloux: She introduces "The Week," a program developed by Frederic Laloux that brings people together to confront the realities of our species' challenges and inspires action towards positive change. Agile Community's Potential Impact: Lyssa highlights the potential for the Agile community to be a force for good by applying Agile principles to global challenges and collaborating with others to create meaningful change. Recommended Books: The Age of Thrivability by Michelle Holliday Regenerative Leadership by Laura Storm and Giles Hutchins Personal and Professional Growth: Lyssa reflects on her journey of continuously evolving her mindset and learning from others, particularly in how to apply natural world principles to business and leadership. Contact and Resources: Lyssa can be reached through her website, LyssaAdkins.com, where listeners can find more information about her work and initiatives. People Mentioned: Frederic Laloux: Author of Reinventing Organizations and creator of "The Week," a program that encourages deep reflection and action on global challenges. Michelle Holliday: Author of The Age of Thrivability, a book focused on aligning business practices with natural world principles. Laura Storm: Co-author of Regenerative Leadership, a book that explores how to lead organizations by drawing inspiration from the natural world. Giles Hutchins: Co-author of Regenerative Leadership, who collaborates with Laura Storm in exploring sustainable and regenerative practices in leadership. Check out Elevate Change Training & Events Follow us: Visit us at http://www.leanonagile.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/Elevate_Change LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ElevateChange

The modern workplace is a source of so much pain in so many peoples' lives. And with the extreme challenges facing humanity, it's easy to understand the gloom-and-doom perspective that has become prevalent today. Frederic Laloux sees things differently. "I look at it from a place of adventure," he tells us. "If we don't have a lens of 'these are times that are confusing and difficult' we can see them instead as extraordinary times for us to learn and to grow as individuals." In this podcast, Tami Simon speaks with the renowned author of Reinventing Organizations about his life's mission to transform our approach to business. Give a listen as Tami and Frederic discuss: becoming change makers at the systemic level; applying Ken Wilber's Integral Model to the way we organize businesses; the "inner angle," or the mindset and beliefs that we bring to any problem; societal leaps and the people who drive them; a polycrisis or a great adventure: how do you see it?; three cornerstones for the future of business: self-management, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose; creating fluid hierarchies at work; leadership that inspires and connects; the fundamental shift from predict and control to sense and respond (especially in these uncertain times); to budget or not to budget…; finding support and community during a "dark night of the soul"; bringing joy, pride, and courage to our social change activism; climate change and the concept of pluralistic ignorance; and more. Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

Frédéric Laloux est l'auteur du célèbre best-seller ressorti en poche cette année, « Reinventing Organizations ». Une bible du management vendu à des centaines de milliers d'exemplaires, un ouvrage devenu une référence pour toutes les entreprises qui veulent associer sens, intelligence collective et efficacité. Avec sa femme Hélène, ils sont entrés dans le sujet de l'urgence écologique un peu par hasard, mais ils y sont entrés avec passion et de leurs discussions avec des amis, du partage d'expériences, est né ce projet : « The Week ». Et si en une semaine, 3 films, 3 échanges entre amis, dans la famille ou entre collègues, on arrivait à sensibiliser à l'urgence écologie ? En s'appuyant sur la science et des exemples concrets ? Et si on montrait aussi les solutions déjà existantes pour atténuer et s'adapter ? Enfin, et si grâce à ces films et ces échanges, les participants avaient envie aussi d'agir à leur échelle ? « The Week », c'est tout cela ensemble. Plusieurs dizaines de milliers personnes ont déjà vécu l'expérience, mais il faut grossir encore pour avoir plus d'impact. Le couple a voulu reproduire le processus transformatif qu'il a vécu dans son parcours, un processus en forme de U : un épisode dans le sens de la chute, un arrêt, et une remontée. Le premier épisode propose de regarder la réalité en face, le 2ème d'identifier les sources d'espoir, le 3ème d'agir à partir de ce que nous sommes. Surtout, ils voulaient un récit positif et montrer qu'autour d'eux, « les gens qui se sont mis en action ont vu leur vie devenir plus riche, ils y ont gagné bien plus que ce qu'ils ont perdu ! » Le processus est simple : en quelques clics, on planifie ses séances, on prévient ses amis et/ou ses collègues. Avec un seul objectif pour « The Week » : ne pas laisser les participants sur le carreau, les emmener dans l'action et poser des questions simples, sans juger. En plus de celles proposées dans les films, toute une série d'activités sont listées sur le site de « The week » au niveau de l'individu, la collectivité, du politique. Lui qui connait si bien les entreprises, l'urgence climatique est-elle de nature à changer les organisations ? On voit de plus en plus d'entreprises libérées, entreprises contributives, entreprises régénératrices ? « Personne ne sait encore comment faire et du coup, on vit de vraies aventures », avance Frédéric Laloux. Et de citer Ray Anderson, le patron d'Interface qui avait dit ceci à ses salariés : « Il faut être prêt à rêver grand sans avoir de réponses ». Bonne écoute avec Impact Positif. https://www.theweek.ooo/ Frédéric Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, Diateino, 2015. Aussi en poche et en édition illustrée.

In unserer heutigen Folge sprechen wir über das Thema stärkenorientiertes Arbeiten. Michael liebt Geschichten und so fängt er mit einer an, die ins Thema einführt. Spoiler: Es geht um ein junges Mädchen, das als kleines Kind in der Schule immer gestört hat und die dank eines umsichtigen Arztes in den 1930er-Jahren in ihren Talenten erkannt wurde. Wie oft gibt es am Anfang auch ein bisschen Theorie und Michael erklärt den Unterschied zwischen dem konventionellen und dem stärkenorientierten Ansatz zur Persönlichkeitsentwicklung. Oskar spricht über seine Schulzeit, in der nur sehr wenige Lehrerinnen und Lehrer irgendeine Art von Stärke gefördert oder auch nur erkannt hätten. Als frisch ausgebildeter Stärken-Coach erklärt Michael im Schnelldurchgang den CliftonStrength34 Test. Dieser Test ist im Kern ein Online-Assessment, das seine Wurzeln in der positiven Psychologie hat und das mit Hilfe von 177 Aussagpaaren 34 Stärken in eine individuelle Reihenfolge bringt. Oskar hat den Test unmittelbare vor der Aufnahme gemacht und die beiden vergleichen ihre Ergebnisse. Gegen Ende gibt es wieder gesammelte Tipps zum Thema Stärken: 1. Wer Lust hat macht den CliftonStrength Test, er kostet aber 65 EURO (https://shorturl.at/c5GFE) 2. Feedback einholen und auch geben (Oskar schreibt Feedbacks im Sommer, wenn etwas weniger los ist) 3. Nach jedem Projekt bietet sich die Chance, zum Beispiel mit einer Retro 4. ChatGPT nutzen: “Stell mir mal 20 Fragen und tue so als wärest Du mein Mental Coach” 5. Bittet 10 Freunde: “Sprecht mir mal eine Sprachnachricht, was ihr an mir schätzt (und was nicht so)”. Die Auswertung kann dann wieder ChatGPT machen. 6. Ragnhild Struss, Karrierecoach und Autorin (Job Crafting) empfiehlt: “Setz Dich hin und schreibe 50 Sachen auf, die Du gut kannst” (Michaels Frau und Oskars Mutter musste in einem Seminar sogar 100 Sachen aufschreiben) 7. In Teams und Gruppen die warme Dusche/ Shower of Appreciation nutzen: Wofür seid Ihr Euch dankbar? 8. Frederic Laloux erzählt in Reinventing Organizations die Geschichte von Teams, die zur Vorbereitung auf ihre Jahresgespräche für jedes Teammitglied jeweils per Flipchart Antworten auf zwei Fragen gesucht haben: - Was mag ich an der Zusammenarbeit mit XY? - Was wünsche ich Oskar für die XY? 9. Michael erzählt von seiner Unternehmer-Organisation EO und der Übung “Heißer Stuhl”, bei der jeder einen Loveletter an alle Mitglieder einer Gruppe schreibt und dann vorliest. 10. Martin Seligman, der Begründer der positiven Psychologie, hat auch einen Test entwickelt, den sogenannten 24 Character Strengths, den es auf der Webpage Penn State University ohne Gebühr gibt (https://shorturl.at/fpDDv) Auch nach 20 Folgen können wir unser Glück nicht fassen, solche Gespräche führen zu können. Wir stellen weiter fest, wie wichtig es für uns ist, dass wir uns immer wieder zu wichtigen Themen austauschen und reflektieren. Wir hoffen, dass wir Euch mit unserem Gespräch nicht langweilen, sondern Euch inspirieren, selbst immer wieder auch in den Dialog mit Vertretern aller Generationen zu gehen. LinkedIn: michaeltrautmann64 Oskar-trautmann96 #ZoomerMeetsBoomer #GenZ #BabyBoomer

Is your company still stuck in the same old top-down management approach? It's time to ditch that old playbook. In this episode, Frederic Laloux, Author of “Reinventing Organizations” and Co-founder of The Week, discusses why organizations need to reinvent traditional management approaches in today's fast-paced world. He breaks down why outdated hierarchical structures often fail to engage employees and the flawed mentality of working solely for a paycheck. We also dig into the evolution of management models and how we've moved from rigid structures to more dynamic, people-first approaches. Frederic also discusses real-world examples of self-managing companies where teams thrive without the usual layers of management. He also shares stories from companies like Bayer and Zappos about the challenges and successes in adopting new management styles like “holacracy.” ________________ Start your day with the world's top leaders by joining thousands of others at Great Leadership on Substack. Just enter your email: ⁠⁠https://greatleadership.substack.com/

Traditional corporate hierarchies are being replaced by dynamic, self-managing organizations that embrace wholeness and evolutionary purpose, as explained by Frederic Laloux in this week's episode of The Conscious Entrepreneur. Frederic, the author of Reinventing Organizations, joins Alex Raymond to mark the 10th anniversary of his influential book and discuss its impact on modern organizational management.   With an MBA from INSEAD and a successful career at McKinsey, Frederic was well-acquainted with conventional business paradigms. However, personal experiences and a transformative coaching session led him to question traditional corporate structures. Influenced by Ken Wilber's developmental theories, Frederic introduced a color-coded framework showing the evolution from rigid hierarchies to adaptive, purpose-driven “teal” organizations.   Frederic outlines three key principles of teal organizations: self-management, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose. Self-management eliminates traditional hierarchies, replacing them with flexible systems where decision-making is distributed based on competence and interest. Wholeness encourages individuals to bring their full selves to work, fostering creativity and authenticity. Evolutionary purpose shifts focus from profit maximization to a mission that aligns with stakeholders' values and aspirations.   This episode offers valuable insights for entrepreneurs and leaders on the future of work. Frederic's perspectives provide a compelling vision of how businesses can evolve to meet modern complexities while creating humane and fulfilling work environments, urging entrepreneurs to embrace these innovative paradigms.   Quotes “When we redesign the organization, we create a blueprint. It's all of that engineering language because fundamentally we view an organization as a machine. This was a very successful model… But now we're reaching the limits of that model. The world has become so much more complex, but we're still trying to run it in that way with the good old pyramid structure.” (13:20 | Frederic Laloux)  “If I was really honest with myself, behind closed doors with leaders, I had these amazing conversations... The structures were so unhealthy that, once I left, the same thing happened during sessions with executive committees. We would finally discuss the taboos, the power relations, the politics, the lack of trust, and everyone would feel relieved that these issues were being addressed. However, once I left the room, the same behaviors would resurface. What I realized was that it wasn't a lack of capacity on their part. It was the system, the structures, and the pyramid—how we've set up things—that naturally pushed people to behave in those ways.” (26:01 | Frederic Laloux)  “The term self-management is both great and frustrating. As soon as you mention it, people often imagine it means no structure, that everyone can do whatever they want, and that decision-making is done by consensus, requiring everyone's input on every decision. But it's actually the opposite of that.” (35:51 | Frederic Laloux)   Links Connect with Frederic Laloux: Book: https://www.reinventingorganizations.com/ Video Series: https://thejourney.reinventingorganizations.com/ The Week: https://www.theweek.ooo/   Connect with Alex Raymond: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afraymond/ Website: https://consciousentrepreneur.us/ HiveCast.fm is a proud sponsor of The Conscious Entrepreneur Podcast. Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Im Podcast mit dem Ex-Geschäftsführer und Laloux-Kenner Lucas Müller haben wir spannende Einblicke in die Herausforderungen und Chancen einer selbstorganisierten Unternehmensführung erhalten. Hier sind die fünf wichtigsten Highlights, die du nicht verpassen solltest:   1. Neue Wege nach der Sinnkrise:  Wie die Auseinandersetzung mit Frederic Laloux' "Reinventing Organizations" den Weg für einen neuen Führungsstil frei macht.   2. Selbstorganisation statt starrer Hierarchien: Traditionelle Hierarchien werden abgeschafft. Das Team organisiert sich selbst, was zu mehr Zufriedenheit und Effizienz führt.   3. Gemeinsame Entscheidungsfindung: Wie das Team lernt, Verantwortung zu übernehmen und gemeinsam tragfähige Entscheidungen zu treffen.   4. Persönliches Wachstum im Team: Mitarbeiter blühen in ihren neuen Rollen auf, übernehmen mehr Verantwortung und stärken die Zusammenarbeit. Dies fördert die Agilität des Unternehmens erheblich.   5. Freiheit und Vertrauen: Lucas gibt seinen Mitarbeitern die Freiheit, sich selbst zu organisieren, unterstützt von einem externen Facilitator. Das Ergebnis: Ein engagiertes Team, das eigene Entscheidungen trifft und Verantwortung übernimmt.   Diese Folge bietet viele Impulse für mittelständische Unternehmen, die auf der Suche nach mehr Agilität und Mitarbeiterzufriedenheit sind.   Lucas Hintergrund: Als Dipl.-Mathematiker war er zunächst im IT-Bereich tätig (SW-Entwicklung, QA, Produktmanagement, Projektmanagement) und hat Management „der alten Schule“ gelernt. 12 Jahre war er Geschäftsführer eines mittelständischen Unternehmens mit 25 Kolleginnen und Kollegen. 2018 änderte ein Buch von Frederic Laloux seine Art der Unternehmensführung … es war ein großes Experiment und am Ende wurde es ein großer Erfolg: Zuletzt dreht sich alles um Verantwortung und Selbstwirksamkeit. Und darum geht es auch, wenn es um das Thema „Nachhaltigkeit“ geht, weswegen er sein Berufsleben komplett umgekrempelt und seit Anfang 2024 Inhaber von Wirk4tomorrow ist.   ------------------------ Noch mehr zu Lucas: www.wirk4tomorrow.de   Buchempfehlung: Frederic Laloux „Re-Inventing Organizations“: https://amzn.to/3WHd2qa   Hinweis: Der Link zum Buch ist ein Affiliatelink. Damit entstehen dir keine Kosten und Nachteile. Es honoriert lediglich unsere Empfehlung.   ------------------------   Mehr zu Silvia:Zukunftsentwickler-Seite: https://www.silvia-ziolkowski.de Führungskräfte-Zirkel: www.fuehrungszirkel-bayern.de Bücher: https://www.silvia-ziolkowski.de/autorin/   Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/die_zukunftsentwicklerin/?hl=de https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY5OMzBUbiPutcYPTsu2WtA https://www.linkedin.com/in/silviaziolkowski/?trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile_pic   ------------------------   Wenn dir mein Podcast gefällt, und du hast weiterhin Lust auf interessante Interviews mit spannenden Experten und zukunftsrelevanten Content, dann freue ich mich sehr, wenn du mir auf iTunes eine Rezension hinterlässt. Vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und für deine Unterstützung! Hier kannst du den Podcast bewerten! https://itunes.apple.com/de/podcast/bau-dir-deine-zukunft/id1343157951?l=de  

Im Podcast mit dem Ex-Geschäftsführer und Laloux-Kenner Lucas Müller haben wir spannende Einblicke in die Herausforderungen und Chancen einer selbstorganisierten Unternehmensführung erhalten. Hier sind die fünf wichtigsten Highlights, die du nicht verpassen solltest:   1. Neue Wege nach der Sinnkrise:  Wie die Auseinandersetzung mit Frederic Laloux' "Reinventing Organizations" den Weg für einen neuen Führungsstil frei macht.   2. Selbstorganisation statt starrer Hierarchien: Traditionelle Hierarchien werden abgeschafft. Das Team organisiert sich selbst, was zu mehr Zufriedenheit und Effizienz führt.   3. Gemeinsame Entscheidungsfindung: Wie das Team lernt, Verantwortung zu übernehmen und gemeinsam tragfähige Entscheidungen zu treffen.   4. Persönliches Wachstum im Team: Mitarbeiter blühen in ihren neuen Rollen auf, übernehmen mehr Verantwortung und stärken die Zusammenarbeit. Dies fördert die Agilität des Unternehmens erheblich.   5. Freiheit und Vertrauen: Lucas gibt seinen Mitarbeitern die Freiheit, sich selbst zu organisieren, unterstützt von einem externen Facilitator. Das Ergebnis: Ein engagiertes Team, das eigene Entscheidungen trifft und Verantwortung übernimmt.   Diese Folge bietet viele Impulse für mittelständische Unternehmen, die auf der Suche nach mehr Agilität und Mitarbeiterzufriedenheit sind.   Lucas Hintergrund: Als Dipl.-Mathematiker war er zunächst im IT-Bereich tätig (SW-Entwicklung, QA, Produktmanagement, Projektmanagement) und hat Management „der alten Schule“ gelernt. 12 Jahre war er Geschäftsführer eines mittelständischen Unternehmens mit 25 Kolleginnen und Kollegen. 2018 änderte ein Buch von Frederic Laloux seine Art der Unternehmensführung … es war ein großes Experiment und am Ende wurde es ein großer Erfolg: Zuletzt dreht sich alles um Verantwortung und Selbstwirksamkeit. Und darum geht es auch, wenn es um das Thema „Nachhaltigkeit“ geht, weswegen er sein Berufsleben komplett umgekrempelt und seit Anfang 2024 Inhaber von Wirk4tomorrow ist.   ------------------------ Noch mehr zu Lucas: www.wirk4tomorrow.de   Buchempfehlung: Frederic Laloux „Re-Inventing Organizations“: https://amzn.to/3WHd2qa   Hinweis: Der Link zum Buch ist ein Affiliatelink. Damit entstehen dir keine Kosten und Nachteile. Es honoriert lediglich unsere Empfehlung.   ------------------------   Mehr zu...

Im Podcast mit dem Ex-Geschäftsführer und Laloux-Kenner Lucas Müller haben wir spannende Einblicke in die Herausforderungen und Chancen einer selbstorganisierten Unternehmensführung erhalten. Hier sind die fünf wichtigsten Highlights, die du nicht verpassen solltest:   1. Neue Wege nach der Sinnkrise:  Wie die Auseinandersetzung mit Frederic Laloux' "Reinventing Organizations" den Weg für einen neuen Führungsstil frei macht.   2. Selbstorganisation statt starrer Hierarchien: Traditionelle Hierarchien werden abgeschafft. Das Team organisiert sich selbst, was zu mehr Zufriedenheit und Effizienz führt.   3. Gemeinsame Entscheidungsfindung: Wie das Team lernt, Verantwortung zu übernehmen und gemeinsam tragfähige Entscheidungen zu treffen.   4. Persönliches Wachstum im Team: Mitarbeiter blühen in ihren neuen Rollen auf, übernehmen mehr Verantwortung und stärken die Zusammenarbeit. Dies fördert die Agilität des Unternehmens erheblich.   5. Freiheit und Vertrauen: Lucas gibt seinen Mitarbeitern die Freiheit, sich selbst zu organisieren, unterstützt von einem externen Facilitator. Das Ergebnis: Ein engagiertes Team, das eigene Entscheidungen trifft und Verantwortung übernimmt.   Diese Folge bietet viele Impulse für mittelständische Unternehmen, die auf der Suche nach mehr Agilität und Mitarbeiterzufriedenheit sind.   Lucas Hintergrund: Als Dipl.-Mathematiker war er zunächst im IT-Bereich tätig (SW-Entwicklung, QA, Produktmanagement, Projektmanagement) und hat Management „der alten Schule“ gelernt. 12 Jahre war er Geschäftsführer eines mittelständischen Unternehmens mit 25 Kolleginnen und Kollegen. 2018 änderte ein Buch von Frederic Laloux seine Art der Unternehmensführung … es war ein großes Experiment und am Ende wurde es ein großer Erfolg: Zuletzt dreht sich alles um Verantwortung und Selbstwirksamkeit. Und darum geht es auch, wenn es um das Thema „Nachhaltigkeit“ geht, weswegen er sein Berufsleben komplett umgekrempelt und seit Anfang 2024 Inhaber von Wirk4tomorrow ist.   ------------------------ Noch mehr zu Lucas: www.wirk4tomorrow.de   Buchempfehlung: Frederic Laloux „Re-Inventing Organizations“: https://amzn.to/3WHd2qa   Hinweis: Der Link zum Buch ist ein Affiliatelink. Damit entstehen dir keine Kosten und Nachteile. Es honoriert lediglich unsere Empfehlung.   ------------------------   Mehr zu...

Huuurrraaaaa! Bogen 'Reinventing Organizations' af Frederic Laloux har fødselsdag. Det er 10 år siden bogen udkom.I episoden snakker vi om hvad bogen kan og ikke kan - og hvorfor vi dedikerer en episode til at fejre og hylde bogen.Hvis du ikke kender bogen, så anbefaler vi, at du går tilbage og lytter til episode 65 som handler om Teal. Vi må jo nok indrømme, at samtlige episoder i den her podcast har begreber fra 'Reinventing Organizations' og at bogen har været med til at forme fremtidens ledelse helt generelt.Vi  håber du vil være med til at fejre med os.

Bengi is the co-CEO of ATÖLYE, a strategic design and innovation consultancy based in Istanbul and Dubai. They help organizations tackle complex challenges to create lasting impact using a unique community-centered approach.Before joining ATÖLYE, Bengi served as studio director and head of creative innovation and design at Deloitte Digital in Turkey, where she led service design, UX design, and innovation strategy. She has had tremendous influence in developing service design and UX design competences in Turkey and the broader Middle East.Bengi is a second-generation leader at ATÖLYE, founded a decade ago by Kerem Alper and Engin Ayaz. ATÖLYE operates a unique, international design practice, and among other achievements, they have their place as a member of the Kyu Collective alongside giants of the design industry like Ideo, Sid Lee, and Godfrey Dadich.VISIT OUR AFFILIATES & SPONSORS TO SUPPORT US- Framer – the best website builder: https://www.framer.com/?via=designdisciplin- ProtoPie – the best hi-fi prototyping tool: https://www.protopie.io/?ref=designdisciplin- LucidChart – the best way to create diagrams: https://try.lucid.co/ddPRODUCTS MENTIONED+ Designing Interactions by Bill Moggridge: https://geni.us/designing-interactions+ The Hacker Ethic by Pekka Himanen: https://geni.us/hacker-ethic+ Creative Confidence by Tom Kelley and David Kelley: https://geni.us/creative-confidence+ The Art of Innovation by Tom Kelley: https://geni.us/art-of-innovation+ The Ten Faces of Innovation by Tom Kelley: https://geni.us/ten-faces+ Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux: https://geni.us/reinventing-orgON OUR WEBSITEhttp://designdisciplin.com/bengi-turganSOCIALWebsite: http://designdisciplin.com​Twitter: http://twitter.com/designdisciplin/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@designdisciplinInstagram: http://instagram.com/designdisciplin/Main YouTube: http://youtube.com/@designdisciplinPodcast YouTube: http://youtube.com/@designdisciplin_podcastApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/design-disciplin/id1553829029Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6VqYFGscuM2UVgtdZfk1hrCHAPTERS00:00 Intro02:17 Bengi's story19:56 Service design success stories29:08 Bengi meets ATÖLYE33:50 What is ATÖLYE?48:50 ATÖLYE's clients54:39 Teaching and leadership59:49 ATÖLYE's design philosophy1:03:22 Bengi's influences1:04:39 Advice for young designers1:09:10 Book recommendations1:12:13 To be replaceable1:13:45 Closing

Brauchen wir neue Organisationsformen, um in Unternehmen und als Gesellschaft mehr purpose-driven zu agieren?

Frédéric Laloux est l'auteur du célèbre best-seller ressorti en poche cette année, « Reinventing Organizations ». Une bible du management vendu à des centaines de milliers d'exemplaires, un ouvrage devenu une référence pour toutes les entreprises qui veulent associer sens, intelligence collective et efficacité. Avec sa femme Hélène, ils sont entrés dans le sujet de l'urgence écologique un peu par hasard, mais ils y sont entrés avec passion et de leurs discussions avec des amis, du partage d'expériences, est né ce projet : « The Week ». Et si en une semaine, 3 films, 3 échanges entre amis, dans la famille ou entre collègues, on arrivait à sensibiliser à l'urgence écologie ? En s'appuyant sur la science et des exemples concrets ? Et si on montrait aussi les solutions déjà existantes pour atténuer et s'adapter ? Enfin, et si grâce à ces films et ces échanges, les participants avaient envie aussi d'agir à leur échelle ? « The Week », c'est tout cela ensemble. Plusieurs dizaines de milliers personnes ont déjà vécu l'expérience, mais il faut grossir encore pour avoir plus d'impact. Le couple a voulu reproduire le processus transformatif qu'il a vécu dans son parcours, un processus en forme de U : un épisode dans le sens de la chute, un arrêt, et une remontée. Le premier épisode propose de regarder la réalité en face, le 2ème d'identifier les sources d'espoir, le 3ème d'agir à partir de ce que nous sommes. Surtout, ils voulaient un récit positif et montrer qu'autour d'eux, « les gens qui se sont mis en action ont vu leur vie devenir plus riche, ils y ont gagné bien plus que ce qu'ils ont perdu ! » Le processus est simple : en quelques clics, on planifie ses séances, on prévient ses amis et/ou ses collègues. Avec un seul objectif pour « The Week » : ne pas laisser les participants sur le carreau, les emmener dans l'action et poser des questions simples, sans juger. En plus de celles proposées dans les films, toute une série d'activités sont listées sur le site de « The week » au niveau de l'individu, la collectivité, du politique. Lui qui connait si bien les entreprises, l'urgence climatique est-elle de nature à changer les organisations ? On voit de plus en plus d'entreprises libérées, entreprises contributives, entreprises régénératrices ? « Personne ne sait encore comment faire et du coup, on vit de vraies aventures », avance Frédéric Laloux. Et de citer Ray Anderson, le patron d'Interface qui avait dit ceci à ses salariés : « Il faut être prêt à rêver grand sans avoir de réponses ». Bonne écoute avec Impact Positif. https://www.theweek.ooo/ Frédéric Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, Diateino, 2015. Aussi en poche et en édition illustrée.

Frédéric Laloux est l'auteur du célèbre best-seller ressorti en poche cette année, « Reinventing Organizations ». Une bible du management vendu à des centaines de milliers d'exemplaires, un ouvrage devenu une référence pour toutes les entreprises qui veulent associer sens, intelligence collective et efficacité. Avec sa femme Hélène, ils sont entrés dans le sujet de l'urgence écologique un peu par hasard, mais ils y sont entrés avec passion et de leurs discussions avec des amis, du partage d'expériences, est né ce projet : « The Week ». Et si en une semaine, 3 films, 3 échanges entre amis, dans la famille ou entre collègues, on arrivait à sensibiliser à l'urgence écologie ? En s'appuyant sur la science et des exemples concrets ? Et si on montrait aussi les solutions déjà existantes pour atténuer et s'adapter ? Enfin, et si grâce à ces films et ces échanges, les participants avaient envie aussi d'agir à leur échelle ? « The Week », c'est tout cela ensemble. Plusieurs dizaines de milliers personnes ont déjà vécu l'expérience, mais il faut grossir encore pour avoir plus d'impact. Le couple a voulu reproduire le processus transformatif qu'il a vécu dans son parcours, un processus en forme de U : un épisode dans le sens de la chute, un arrêt, et une remontée. Le premier épisode propose de regarder la réalité en face, le 2ème d'identifier les sources d'espoir, le 3ème d'agir à partir de ce que nous sommes. Surtout, ils voulaient un récit positif et montrer qu'autour d'eux, « les gens qui se sont mis en action ont vu leur vie devenir plus riche, ils y ont gagné bien plus que ce qu'ils ont perdu ! » Le processus est simple : en quelques clics, on planifie ses séances, on prévient ses amis et/ou ses collègues. Avec un seul objectif pour « The Week » : ne pas laisser les participants sur le carreau, les emmener dans l'action et poser des questions simples, sans juger. En plus de celles proposées dans les films, toute une série d'activités sont listées sur le site de « The week » au niveau de l'individu, la collectivité, du politique. Lui qui connait si bien les entreprises, l'urgence climatique est-elle de nature à changer les organisations ? On voit de plus en plus d'entreprises libérées, entreprises contributives, entreprises régénératrices ? « Personne ne sait encore comment faire et du coup, on vit de vraies aventures », avance Frédéric Laloux. Et de citer Ray Anderson, le patron d'Interface qui avait dit ceci à ses salariés : « Il faut être prêt à rêver grand sans avoir de réponses ». Bonne écoute avec Impact Positif. https://www.theweek.ooo/ Frédéric Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, Diateino, 2015. Aussi en poche et en édition illustrée.

Thomas is joined by celebrated business thinker, social entrepreneur, Founder of "The Week", and author of Reinventing Organizations, Frederic Laloux. They discuss how hierarchy relies on certain people having power over others, and how this concept is antithetical to our true human nature, despite being deeply ingrained in society. They explore Frederic's work to help organizations shift to a “self-managing” model, and what it takes to get people on board. Frederic has learned that by bringing people together to surface their deepest assumptions about their way of operating, and examining what that implies about humanity, they can organically come to accept a non-hierarchical structure. He and Thomas discuss how our economic and educational systems reify a worldview of scarcity and distrust, and how we would all benefit from a more communal society. They also dive deep into Frederic's work on climate change, and how his organization “The Week” is creating spaces to process the harsh reality of environmental disaster so that we can discover new avenues to combat it without feeling alienated and alone. ✨ Thomas' Art of Attunement course is 50% off - for a limited time.   

Promotional Links: The Regenerative Brand Archetype Quiz - Gain greater clarity on how to present your brand's identity as a guide and leader for regenerative change. As you take this quiz you will learn your brand's archetype profile and how to best utilize it in your message and marketing. Description In this episode, we dive deep into the inspiring story of Hannah Temple, a regenerative entrepreneur who is dedicated to reinventing organizations and the way we do business. Hannah shares her journey of realizing the need for change at a young age and how she has been working towards building a more regenerative and socially responsible economy. We explore Hannah's work with Tealco, an organization that supports businesses in becoming regenerative forces in the world. She discusses the importance of shifting the behavior of organizations to create positive impacts on economies, cultures, and the environment. Hannah also explains Tealco's process for helping organizations make the transition to regenerative models, including systems mapping and regenerative landscape assessment. Throughout the conversation, Hannah emphasizes the need for genuine diversity, courage, and learning from nature as key elements in driving positive change. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply interested in creating a more sustainable future, this episode will leave you inspired and motivated to take action. Connect with Hannah Temple and learn more about her work with Tealco through the A Thriving Futures Podcast and Tealco website. Don't miss this thought-provoking conversation on reinventing organizations and the path to a regenerative economy. Guest Bio: Hannah Coleman Hannah Temple is a recognised expert in the field of human rights and business. She has worked with many of the world's largest organisations to practically implement human rights due diligence in line with the United Nations Guiding Principles across both their supply chains and their own operations. Her experience has led her to work with a vast diversity of stakeholders, sectors and topics, helping organisations to grapple with the full spectrum of social, environmental and governance issues. She has been invited to speak at and contribute to key forums in the sustainability, ethical business and human rights arenas, including the UN Global Compact Academy, Business Fights Poverty, Moodys Investors Services, Article 30 and the Ernst and Young Eco-Innovators Network. She is a skilled facilitator, nature facilitator, systems thinker, trainer, strategist and analyst. Visit our website for the full show notes here

Prendre conscience des enjeux, traverser les émotions et se mettre en mouvement. Un processus de transformation collective avec “the Week”Je discute avec Frédéric Laloux, auteur de "Reinventing Organizations". Il nous présente son nouvel outil, The Week, qui permet de sensibiliser aux enjeux écologiques à travers des films et des discussions émotionnelles.Quand on prend conscience de la gravité de la situation, on se sent souvent démunis, en décalage par rapport à notre entourage qui n'a pas forcément pris le temps de s'informer ou qui parfois même refuse de regarder la réalité en face.J'ai vécu ça personnellement, je continue de le vivre et cet écart dans l'information est souvent très dur à dépasser.Ça m'intéressait de parler de ça avec Frédéric, de son expérience de prise de conscience, et de sa réflexion sur comment faire avancer les débats malgré les angoisses, malgré le déni et dans un contexte où toute la réalité est perçue comme relative à chacun.Interview enregistrée le 7 novembre 2023Cet épisode est soutenu par Cyberghost VPN. Pour bénéficier de l'offre c'est ici :https://www.cyberghostvpn.com/SismiqueDe quoi parle-t-on ?0:00:00 Introduction0:04:00 Prise de conscience de la crise environnementale en 20190:07:10 Le U émotionnel et le sentiment de clarté0:11:29 La genèse du projet "The Week" et son objectif0:12:46 Un parcours pour se saisir du sujet du changement climatique0:14:46 Les messages anxiogènes de la presse et des documentaires.0:18:27 Réveiller les consciences individuelles0:25:23 Prise de conscience des souffrances et désensibilisation0:30:30 Malgré les alertes, rien ne change, besoin de changement d'histoire0:34:51 L'exemple du système alimentaire et l'émergence d'une nouvelle logique0:37:29 Une logique environnementale qui recrée du lien social0:42:18 Les causes de l'inaction face aux changements climatiques0:46:11 L'importance d'être soutenu par ses proches0:49:21 Les projections mentales sur 20500:52:23 Différences culturelles entre Européens et Américains sur le sujet0:58:59 L'influence d'une expérience partagée sur une entreprise1:01:48 Course entre destruction et éveil des consciences1:04:12 Réunion avec Tim Cook et ses collègues chez Apple1:07:42 La réinvention du business model et les enjeux actuels1:14:15 Un outsider propose un nouveau modèle de transition----Retrouvez tous les épisodes et les résumés sur www.sismique.frSismique est un podcast indépendant créé et animé par Julien Devaureix.

In this episode, Joe interviews Mike Margolies: community catalyst; conversation creator; Founder of Psychedelic Seminars; and Co-Founder and Co-Steward of the Global Psychedelic Society. The Global Psychedelic Society was created for all of the different psychedelic societies that have sprung up over the world to connect, share resources and information with each other, and be housed in a central hub so people can find them more easily. He talks about Frederic Laloux's book, "Reinventing Organizations," and modeling the GPS around the “Teal” concept of organization, where employees are encouraged to show up as their true, honest, and most powerful selves; where it's more about relationships than hierarchy; and more about embracing a mycelial – and psychedelic – way of thinking and interacting with each other. He breaks down how this way of thinking has progressed from the earliest ways of organizing, and discusses its three main principles of self-governance, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose. He then talks about the Boom Festival: its “Liminal Village,” its inventive Kosmicare harm reduction program, and how drugs are not as decriminalized as people think in Portugal; and Burning Man: how it all came together for him this year when he didn't even want to go, his experiences with the rain and a friend's dreams warning of floods, what he learned from the ghost of a lost friend, and how that resulted in the concept of Batman doing a striptease to Seal's “Kiss From a Rose.” Is the Joker simply a manifestation of Batman's shadow material and his desire to be a hero? Yea, this one gets weird… Click here to head to the show notes page. 

Il y a des pépites de la French tech qui restent toujours un peu secrètes, alors qu'elles relèvent des enjeux vitaux à la scalabilité de toute grosse entreprise. On pense notamment à : la formation, la transmission et le maintien des expertises, ou encore l'onboarding d'une nouvelle recrue. C'est le cas du fondateur de 360learning, Nick Hernandez. Une personnalité forte et assertive qui assume ses choix, alliés à un esprit créatif et analytique, capable de construire des ponts surprenants d'évidence entre 2 sujets aux allures pourtant mal assorties. Par exemple : les fondamentaux du philosophe Michel Foucault avec la meilleure manière de former ses collaborateurs. Une manière d'aborder la vie, les savoirs, qui reflète parfaitement la mission de son entreprise, 360Learning, un outil qui permet à n'importe quel expert de créer une formation et de la partager avec ses collaborateurs. Un sous-marin B2B de la tech française au succès pourtant éprouvé, avec 250M$ levés et des centaines de collaborateurs en Europe et aux États-Unis. Au cours de cet échange enthousiasmant, on apprend beaucoup à propos de La neurodiversité et de nos biais sociaux, L'importance de la diversité en entreprise, L'impact de l'intelligence artificielle sur nos compétences, Michel Foucault et Platon, L'art du feedback aux États-Unis et en France, Et bien plus. N'hésitez plus, cet épisode est rempli d'enseignements. TIMELINE : 00:00:00 Le modèle de fonctionnement de 360Learning 00:24:00 Petit cours de philosophie constructiviste 00:36:00 360Learning, de la 1ère levée de fonds au scaling 01:11:33 Les clés d'une formation qui cartonne 01:30:38 Comment mesurer la performance au travail ? 01:46:10 La neurodiversité c'est quoi ? Qu'en tirer pour bien manager ? 01:55:43 Pourquoi un français travaille plus comme un chinois qu'un américain ? 02:10:05 Intelligence Artificielle et transhumanisme leur impact sur l'économie 02:35:54 Les perspectives de 360Learning 02:37:50 Et si Nick avait dû ne choisir que la philosophie ou l'ingénierie ? 02:39:29 Où contacter Nick, les livres qu'il recommande On a cité avec Nick plusieurs anciens épisodes de GDIY : Jean-Claude Biver - Biver Watches - Leçons d'une légende de l'horlogerie de luxe Frédéric Laloux - Auteur - Libérer l'entreprise, comprendre la crise climatique, oser se réinventer Martin Solveig - Alma Studio - Faire danser les foules et émerveiller les enfants : la double vie d'un DJ superstar Thierry Marx - De la cité à la cuisine étoilée : l'extraction sociale d'un titan Laurent Alexandre - Auteur - ChatGPT & IA : “Dans 6 mois, il sera trop tard pour s'y intéresser” Georges Olivier Reymond - Pasqal - Est si le leader mondial du Quantum Computing était français ? Avec Nick, on a parlé de : Podcasts/ Vidéos L'entretien de Lex Friedman avec Sam Altman, le CEO d'OpenAI La vidéo de Steve Jobs “Process V.S. Product” Les cours au Collège de France de Michel Foucault Il faut défendre la société Les anormaux Nick vous recommande de lire : Reinventing Organizations de Frédéric Laloux L'hypothèse de la simulation de Nick Bostrom Le rivage des Syrtes de Julien Gracq Les ouvrages de Michel Foucault L'Ordre du discours La biopolitique Si vous avez apprécié cet épisode, laissez un commentaire sur nos posts LinkedIn ou Instagram. Si vous voulez faire découvrir cet épisode, taguez un ami. La musique du générique vous plaît ? C'est à Morgan Prudhomme que je la dois ! Contactez-le sur : https://studio-module.com. Vous souhaitez sponsoriser Génération Do It Yourself ou nous proposer un partenariat ? Contactez mon label Orso Media via ce formulaire. Vous pouvez contacter Nick Hernandez sur Linkedin

Deerns Spain, a team of around 60 engineers, has been on a transformation journey since March 2020. Inspired by K2K Emocionando, they now work without managers which means that everyone is “creating our company all the time”. I talked to Miquel Castellvi (General Coordinator), Blanca Capdevila (People & Culture) and Pau Riera (Commitment Coordinator) who shared stories about how they changed their organisational structure, their self-managing salary process, giving feedback and dealing with conflicts, and the role of the Values and Culture team. Resources: Deerns Spain website Article in El Pais about Deerns Spain and other ‘teal' organisations in Spain Miquel and Blanca on the Autogestión con Pancho Mora podcast (in Spanish) Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes: Ep. 55 with Frederic Laloux Ep. 53 with Jabi and Dunia from K2K Emocionando Ep. 78 with Sofia and Luís from Mindera  

“Si je fais 3 ans de recherche pour écrire un livre, ce n'est pas pour qu'il y ait 3 lecteurs.” Avec plus d'1 million d'exemplaires vendus dans le Monde, Frédéric Laloux est allé au-delà de ses ambitions. Ce livre, c'est Reinventing Organizations. Une référence mondiale dans le domaine du management et de la gestion d'entreprises. Frédéric a passé 3 années à étudier 12 organisations profondément différentes. Ce guide a participé à l'émergence de nouvelles organisations (entreprises, associations, hôpitaux) privilégiant l'autonomie, la confiance et l'humain, pour répondre aux défis complexes du monde moderne. Dans cet épisode, aussi dense qu'addictif, Frédéric m'explique son parcours. Avec une première carrière de consultant chez McKinsey, une transition vers le métier de coach en entreprise puis l'écriture d'un best-seller. Il me parle de l'importance d'écouter ses “stops intérieurs” et d'oser se réinventer pour aller de l'avant. Nous avons évidemment discuté de ses travaux sur les nouvelles formes d'organisations et ouvert le débat sur l'autogestion. Enfin, Frédéric m'a parlé de son dernier projet : The Week. Une formation à suivre en famille, entre amis ou en entreprise pour comprendre la crise environnementale et climatique que nous vivons. L'objectif est d'en prendre conscience pour vivre plus sereinement et pourquoi pas… choisir de mener sa vie autrement. Frédéric et sa femme ont décidé de partir vivre dans un écovillage aux Etats-Unis, tandis que d'autres se sont lancés dans l'apiculture ou ont simplement acheté un vélo électrique. L'avantage c'est que vos décisions ne regardent que vous. Un épisode qui incite à repenser l'environnement qui nous entoure : notre entreprise, notre famille et notre planète. TIMELINE : 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:06:25 - Présentation de Frédéric Laloux 00:12:00 - Le développement personnel 00:22:00 - Le métier de coach en entreprise 00:28:00 - Le changement d'identité 00:49:00 - As-tu réduit ton ambition ? 00:52:00 - L'origine de Reinventing Organizations 01:01:00 - L'éducation bienveillante 01:22:00 - Les nouvelles formes d'organisations 02:09:00 - The Week, la nouvelle aventure de Frédéric 02:37:00 - Pourquoi vivre aux Etats-Unis ? 02:47:00 - Les traditionnelles questions de fin d'épisode On a cité avec Frédéric plusieurs anciens épisodes de GDIY : #105 - Caroline Pailloux - Tout plaquer sans projet, finir par recruter les talents des startups #206 - Nicolas Hennion - Développement personnel radical ou comment vivre sans contraintes #311 - Pascal Meyer - Vendre un Picasso à sa communauté : quand l'e-commerce n'a plus de limite #327 - Laurent Alexandre - ChatGPT & IA : “Dans 6 mois, il sera trop tard pour s'y intéresser” Avec Frédéric, on a parlé de : The Week Le livre Reinventing Organizations Le podcast Tant qu'il y aura des hommes Anthony Robbins Caroline Goldman Le livre Team of Teams L'entreprise Adamantia L'entreprise Toscane Accompagnement Jean-François Zobrist Frédéric vous recommande de lire : Une brève histoire de tout, de Ken Wilbert Tresser les herbes sacrées, de Robin Wall Kimmerer La musique du générique vous plaît ? C'est à Morgan Prudhomme que je la dois ! Contactez-le sur : https://studio-module.com. Vous souhaitez sponsoriser Génération Do It Yourself ou nous proposer un partenariat ? Contactez mon label Orso Media via ce formulaire. Vous pouvez contacter Frédéric Laloux sur son adresse email frederic@reinventingorganizations.com ou via le formulaire sur le site www.theweek.ooo.

Frederic Laloux is a renowned author, speaker, and organizational transformation expert who has made significant contributions to the field of management and leadership. He is best known for his groundbreaking book Reinventing Organizations, which provides readers with a revolutionary concept that challenges conventional management paradigms. More recently, his work focuses on combating climate change and motivating people to take action. He achieves this through the non-profit organization The Week, which provides a transformative path from awareness to action through a compelling three-part documentary, fostering emotional resonance and community engagement for impactful change.For full show notes, visit: https://www.lifteconomy.com/blog/frederic-lalouxThe spring cohort of the Next Economy MBA is officially open! Save 20% when you register before 1/29 with our early-bird sale ➡️ https://lifteconomy.com/mba

Douglas Rauch was thinking of selling his construction business until he read Reinventing Organisations by Frederic Laloux. After that, Aquadec went on a transformation journey to becoming a self-managing company. Douglas and his daughter Jessica share the ups and downs of this process over the last five years, including why their initial approach was a spectacular failure, why it was an inner shift that ended up making the difference, and something called “S**t Day.” Resources: Jessica and Douglas on The Better Work Australia Podcast The Better Work Australia Podcast website Aquadec's website  

#032 - How safe do you feel failing, learning and growing in your organisation? In this episode, I had a chat with my good friends Sinem Erdemli and Callum Goodwilliam who're also the co-founders of Random Animal, a social impact company that's on a mission to improve work for everyone through better access to learning, design and community.Sinem and Callum emphasise the need to focus on the human aspect of work and creating conditions in organisations where teams and individuals thrive. They also talk about the importance of building safe spaces and communities where people can go to independent of their work, work on developing skills in a non-linear fashion, or get support from peers.ShownotesRandom Animalhttps://www.randomanimal.org/Join Random Animal's test with new ways of learning, organising and worknighttps://forms.gle/3ZsxzQYvgJVcUaPeARandom Animal's resources on Notionhttps://tinyurl.com/RandomAnimal-libraryThe Second Mountain by David Brookshttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40642458-the-second-mountainLeadermorphosis Podcasthttps://leadermorphosis.co/Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Lalouxhttps://www.reinventingorganizations.com/The Progress Principle by Teresa Amabilehttp://www.progressprinciple.com/The Range by David Epsteinhttps://davidepstein.com/the-range/Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Dan Pinkhttps://www.danpink.com/books/drive/What's Our Problem?: A Self-Help Book for Societies by Tim Urbanhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102146148-what-s-our-problemSeason 2 Episode 7: From Human-Centred Design to Life-Centred Design with Dr. Martin Tomitschhttps://www.designfeeling.co/s2e7Show creditsIllustrations by Isa Vicentehttps://www.instagram.com/isadezgz/Music by Brad Porterhttps://prtr.co/Follow Design Feeling on social! LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/designfeelingco Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/designfeelingco/ Twitterhttps://twitter.com/designfeelingco TikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@designfeelingco Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/designfeelingco

Jocelynn Pearl is a biotech scientist, podcaster, and company builder. She co-founded LabDAO, a web3 marketplace for life science research, and curates The DeSci Wiki, which tracks projects and DAOs in the web3 x science sector. She is also the host of the Lady Scientist Podcast and of the UltraRare The Podcast, a show featuring leaders in DeSci. DeSci or Decentralized Science (like the acronym DeFi for decentralized finance) expands some of the principles of blockchain technology and distributed ownership to science. The impact is potentially huge in many aspects: science communities' rules, funding and incentive structures, daily work habits, intellectual property rights, etc. Thanks to our conversation with Jocelynn, we discover the potential of DeSci by looking into the organizational aspects of decentralized communities and exploring which science branches may benefit most from its potential. Finally, Jocelynn also mentions how companies are evolving the DeSci vertical, probably providing one of the best use cases of Web3 so far.    Key highlights 

Unser heutiger Gast hat Betriebswirtschaft in Dresden studiert und danach seine Karriere im Verlagswesen gestartet. Er war zunächst Product-Manager bei Addison-Wesley und danach Akquisition-Redakteur Business & Economics bei Pearson. Von 2007 bis 2011 war er Editorial Director bei Vahlen, und es hätte immer so weitergehen können. Doch unser Gast entschied anders. Er macht seit dieser Zeit nur noch das, was er wirklich, wirklich will Seit über 11 Jahren ist er selbständiger Lektor und in dieser Funktion zählt er für uns zu den wichtigsten Menschen, die wir bis heute in unserem Podcast zu Gast hatten. Er ist nämlich der in Deutschland erfahrenste Lektor, wenn es um Bücher geht, die sich mit der Zukunft der Arbeit beschäftigen. Beispiele? Reinventing Organizations von Frederic Laloux, Die Angstfreie Organisation von Amy Edmondson, Working Out Loud von John Stepper, OKR von John Doerr, oder Das Metaverse von Mathew Ball. Neben diesen Weltbestsellern begleitet er bekannte und weniger bekannte Autorinnen und auch Autoren aus Deutschland auf ihrem Weg zum fertigen Buch. So auch uns! Seit mehr als 5 Jahren beschäftigen wir uns mit der Frage, wie Arbeit den Menschen stärkt - statt ihn zu schwächen. In über 340 Gesprächen haben wir mit mehr als 400 Menschen darüber gesprochen, was sich für sie geändert hat und was sich weiter ändern muss. Wir sind uns ganz sicher, dass es gerade jetzt wichtig ist, Arbeit qualitativ zu verbessern. Denn die Idee von “New Work” wurde während einer echten Krise entwickelt. Sie ist nicht für eine Bubble gedacht, sondern für uns alle. Zahlreiche Autor:innen beschäftigen sich so wie wir mit der Zukunft der Arbeit und wir freuen uns, einigen von Ihnen heute eine Bühne zu geben. Wir suchen nach Methoden, Vorbildern, Erfahrungen, Tools und Ideen, die uns dem Kern von New Work näher bringen! Darüber hinaus beschäftigt uns auch diese Woche immer noch die Frage, ob wirklich alle Menschen das finden und leben können, was sie im Innersten wirklich, wirklich wollen. Ihr seid bei On the Way to New Work - heute mit Dennis Brunotte Episode 349 gibt es auf allen gängigen Podcast-Plattformen, wie Spotify oder Apple Podcasts (oder direkt auf otwtnw.de). Einfach nach ‘On the Way to New Work' suchen und abonnieren, um keine Folge zu verpassen. Christoph und Michael veröffentlichen immer montags um 6:00 Uhr.

Veterinary care is often seen as inconvenient, with time and financial barriers. How can we make care more convenient? This week, Shawn & Ivan speak with Dr. Mike Mossop of Treatwell Pet Care about blending telemedicine and mobile veterinary care. Mike recommends Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux (amzn.to/3Dat7JK). Learn more about Mike at treatwellpetcare.ca.

Knappe, Karolinewww.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, LesartDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Par son expertise, le consultant apporte une aide précieuse aux dirigeants d'une entreprise et leurs équipes. Toutefois, il peut aller beaucoup plus loin en portant une attention à la présentation de son contenu. À travers un médium artistique comme le dessin, il a la possibilité de plonger davantage dans la complexité d'un message et d'inspirer en jouant sur les émotions suscitées. Ici, pas question de seulement décorer le message à la toute fin. Le Consultant Artiste prend une part active dans la réflexion. Dans cet épisode, à travers le livre Penser… Dessiner… Révéler!, j'aborde une approche combinant le savoir du consultant et le talent artistique. La communication demeure souvent un défi et le dessin peut devenir alors une solution à plusieurs objectifs (clarifier, inspirer, orienter, fluidifier, partager). Il existe un impressionnant nombre d'activités liées au dessin pour répondre aux besoins des entreprises. Étienne Appert, l'auteur du livre est mon invité et il représente un des meilleurs exemples d'un Consultant Artiste étant un consultant expérimenté et un dessinateur professionnel reconnu. Il a illustré des ouvrages comme Reinventing Organizations (épisode 80) et Bâtir une vision (épisode 117). Concernant ma propre carrière, je trouve cette approche très prometteuse. J'y vois des pistes pour mon propre alignement. En tant que conseiller d'orientation, je considère que cette avenue pourrait rejoindre une clientèle ayant un profil artistique et qui a envie d'être créatif sans toutefois se lancer directement dans les arts. Ordre du jour 0m23: Introduction 22m01: Présentation du livre 28m49: Les problématiques liées à la communication 35m06: Différents besoins / Différents outils 48m22: Le processus de conception 54m26: Étienne Appert nous donne des pistes 1h08m01: Réflexion personnelle Pour encore plus de détails, consulte la page web de l'épisode

Lina shares the story of her time at Finnish commercial real estate company Technopolis where she led the transformation of the Lithuania business unit. Inspired by Frederic Laloux's book Reinventing Organisations, she got the mandate from her boss to run her business unit of 20 people in a totally different way, with no managers. She shares the story of what her team learned, the challenges they faced, and the results they achieved. Highlights include some harsh but valuable feedback from her team about how decisions are made; a group learning to handle their own conflicts; and a chief accountant who went above and beyond to help the team exceed a seemingly impossible sales target. Resources: The Leadermorphosis episode with Dunia and Jabi from K2K Emocionando

A former Associate Partner with McKinsey & Company, Frédéric Laloux holds an MBA from INSEAD, and a degree in coaching from Newfield Network in Boulder, Colorado. He has traveled widely and speaks five languages fluently. Frédéric Laloux works as an adviser, coach, and facilitator for corporate leaders who feel called to explore fundamentally new ways of organizing. His research in the field of emerging organizational models, published in his book Reinventing Organizations, has been described as “groundbreaking” and “a leap in management thinking” by some of the most respected scholars in the field of human development and management.For the show notes, visit: https://www.lifteconomy.com/blog/fred-lalouxSubscribe to Next Economy Now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Google Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you find podcasts.---LIFT Economy NewsletterJoin 8,000+ subscribers and get our free 60-point business design checklist—plus monthly tips, advice, and resources to help you build the Next Economy: https://lifteconomy.com/newsletter---Next Economy MBAThis episode is brought to you by the Next Economy MBA.What would a business education look like if it was completely redesigned for the benefit of all life? This is why the team at LIFT Economy created the Next Economy MBA (https://lifteconomy.com/mba).The Next Economy MBA is a nine month online course for folks who want to learn key business fundamentals (e.g., vision, culture, strategy, and operations) from an equitable, inclusive, and regenerative perspective.Join the growing network of 350+ alumni who have been exposed to new solutions, learned essential business skills, and joined a lifelong peer group that is catalyzing a global shift towards an economy that works for all life.Learn more at https://lifteconomy.com/mba.---Show Notes + Other LinksFor detailed show notes and interviews with past guests, please visit https://lifteconomy.com/podcast. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It really helps expose these ideas to new listeners: https://bit.ly/nexteconomynowTwitter: https://twitter.com/LIFTEconomyInstagram: https://instagram.com/lifteconomy/Facebook: https://facebook.com/LIFTEconomy/YouTube: https://youtube.com/c/LifteconomyMusic by Chris Zabriskie:The spring cohort of the Next Economy MBA is officially open! Save 20% when you register before 1/29 with our early-bird sale ➡️ https://lifteconomy.com/mba

A change of opportunities calls for a change of expectations. How do we, as leaders, navigate our way to become effective throughout this shift? In this episode, Denis welcomes Heather Osgood, founder of True Native Media. Heather discusses the importance of adapting to change, dreaming a bigger dream, and being willing to take on challenges. Today's leaders must be able to listen well - both to their teams and the world - in order to be successful.  Heather Osgood is the founder of True Native Media, a boutique podcast representation agency specializing in podcast advertising. With an extensive background in radio advertising and love for podcasting, Heather was in a unique position to start an agency that could help both advertisers get better results and assist podcasters in finding sponsors. She is an influential voice in the podcast advertising space and has sold over 50K ads in the last five years. Heather is also the Podcast Moneymaker's creator, a course designed for podcasters who want the formula, tools, and tactics to get advertisers in 6 weeks.  Tune in as Denis and Heather discuss what it takes for team members to feel like they're part of something greater than themselves–if leaders cannot provide this motivation for their team, they may lose them.  In this episode: Heather Osgood shares her experience as the founder of True Native Media and host of her own show https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/podcast-advertising-playbook/id1473222248 (Podcast Advertising Playbook). There are differences between leading an independent contractor versus having an employee and one employee versus multiple employees. When doing business, it's easy to get lost in the details, but it's important to have a clear vision and focus on what's important. It is essential for leaders to respond well to different situations. Leadership is changing because of the fragmentation of the world. Listening is important for understanding what is happening around us and for building relationships with those close to us and with our team. Heather talks about one of her favorite leadership books, which is https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Organizations-Frederic-Laloux/dp/2960133501 (Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux). Leadership will increasingly be evident as individuals need to be able to lead themselves. Key Takeaways: Finding out your roles as a leader and entrepreneur can be difficult to figure out Push yourself beyond what you think you can accomplish The world is changing and leadership is changing with it The leaders who are successful today are those who are able to listen well It is also important to listen to the world in general, as changes happen constantly Leadership is not about a pyramid - it becomes about having individual leadership Change of opportunities calls for a change of expectations Leadership is about having a voice, having a say, and having an opinion Tweetable Quotes: “There are different levels, I think, of growth that's appropriate as you grow with a team. And really, it's about figuring out how you can structure what each of those people is doing and then I think most importantly, and most difficult is what exactly is your role as a leader.” - Heather Osgood “People want to feel like they're part of something that is greater than themselves. And if you, as a leader, can't provide that motivation for someone, I think that's when you lose them, right? You lose their attention.” - Heather Osgood Connect with Heather on https://www.instagram.com/truenativemedia (Instagram) and https://www.linkedin.com/in/podcastadvertising (LinkedIn), follow her on https://twitter.com/truenativemedia (Twitter), and check out her https://heatherosgood.com/ (website). You can also look into https://truenativemedia.com (True Native Media) and its https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLrMBeMSOIlMBSwEejbni2A (YouTube Channel). Email: denis@leadingchangepartners.com...

In this episode of Freedom Lovin, Kevin continues his exploration of Alfie Kohn's Punished by Rewards, commenting on the important difference between intrinsic motivation and external motivation and how the former can be encouraged, rather than snuffed out by the modern education system. O post FL 170: [FREEDOM READS] Reinventing Organizations Part 2/2 apareceu primeiro em Freedom Lovin.

In this episode of Freedom Lovin, Kevin continues his exploration of Alfie Kohn's Punished by Rewards, commenting on the important difference between intrinsic motivation and external motivation and how the former can be encouraged, rather than snuffed out by the modern education system. O post FL 169: [FREEDOM READS] Reinventing Organizations Part 1/2 apareceu primeiro em Freedom Lovin.

Stephen Ogburn is the Vice President of Ogburn Construction, a fast-growing family-owned concrete repair company in Central Virginia. We dissect Fredrick Laloux's Reinventing Organizations and talk about how companies can shift from success-focused into people-focused organizations.   Timestamps [00:35] Stephen's entrepreneurial journey  [02:29] Leaving formal employment to join the family business [03:21] Stephen's experience with management blueprints  [05:11] Business models from Fredrick Laloux's Reinventing Organizations [09:38] The demerits of being a success-focused business [11:31] How success-focused companies can transform into people-focused organizations   [14:12] What is self-management? [18:19] How wholeness impacts productivity within organizations [21:50] How to deal with difficult employees  [25:14] The link between core values and company success [27:40] How companies can create and scale a people-focused culture  [33:13] Key processes to running a people-focused company [36:10] Parting thoughts   Links and Resources Stephen's LinkedIn Ogburn Construction, Inc. Reinventing Organizations by Fredrick Laloux  Originals by Adam Grant Steve Preda's Book: Buyable Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business https://StevePreda.com

Welcher andere Tag als der Bundestagswahl-Sonntag ist der richtige, um sich über Führungsstile zu unterhalten. In angespannter Erwartung des Wahlergebnisses haben sich unsere beiden Protagonisten den Grundlagen von Führung und Führungsstilen gewidmet. Erfahrt mehr über Max Weber, Kurt Lewin und moderne Führungsansätze sowie über die Erfahrungen von Stephen und Friederike. Mit welchen Führungspersönlichkeiten seht ihr euch konfrontiert und welcher Theorie könnt ihr am meisten abgewinnen? _________ Hier gibt es mehr: - Instagram multiinteressiert: https://www.instagram.com/multiinteressiert/ - Instagram Stephen: http://www.instagram.com/stephen.schueller/ - Instagram Friederike: http://www.instagram.com/friederikehenz/ Quellen: - klassische Führungsstile und deren Auswirkungen: th-nuernberg.de/fileadmin/abteilungen/sll/Dokumente/Schlüsselkompetenzen/DownloadFührungsstilenachKurtLewin.pdf https://www.bgw-online.de/DE/Arbeitssicherheit-Gesundheitsschutz/Grundlagen-Forschung/GPR-Medientypen/Downloads/Fuehrung-Gesundheit-Gesundheitsreport_Download.pdf?__blob=publicationFile https://www.bzh.bayern.de/uploads/media/4-2009-schmidt-richter.pdf - Welche Führungsstile gibt es? Moderne Führungsstile in der Übersicht: https://www.akademie-herkert.de/neuigkeiten-fachwissen/53-fuehrung/2441-welche-fuehrungsstile-gibt-es-moderne-fuehrungsstile-in-der-uebersicht - 5 Führungsstile der Zukunft - im Wandel der Gesellschaft: https://www.lecturio.de/magazin/5-fuehrungsstile-zukunft-wandel/ - Vor- und Nachteile der Führungsstile: https://karrierebibel.de/fuehrungsstile/ - Mitarbeitermotivation von heute: https://www.cio.de/a/wie-ein-moderner-fuehrungsstil-aussieht,3260793 - Die Neuerfindung der Organisation? - "Reinventing Organizations": https://www.denkmodell.de/reinventing-organizations/ - Blog Digitalneuordnung: https://digitaleneuordnung.de/blog/reinventing-organizations/ __________ Grüße gehen raus! Euer Stephen, eure Friederike

https://youtu.be/ksQMpRkGYBE Stephen Ogburn is the Vice President of Ogburn Construction, a fast-growing family-owned concrete repair company in Central Virginia. We dissect Fredrick Laloux's Reinventing Organizations and talk about how companies can shift from success-focused into people-focused organizations.   --- Reinvent Your Organization with Stephen Ogburn Our guest is Stephen Ogburn, who is the Vice President of Ogburn Construction, where he runs the day-to-day operations of this fast-growing family-owned concrete repair company in central Virginia. Prior to joining the family business, Stephen worked as a beverage director and manager in the restaurant industry. Stephen, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Steve. Thanks for having me. Well, it's great to have you. Well, listen, my first question is always about the entrepreneurial journey. So what has been your journey from the restaurant industry to taking over running the day to day of your family construction business? Yeah, cut my teeth in the business world starting out as a bartender. And that was here in Richmond at the VMFA when it first reopened. And I kind of had a great experience there of getting to build a program, a beverage program, and had a great time with that. And as things progressed, I thought, you know, maybe I'll try my hand at some more of the managing side of the restaurant world and i ended up moving to Colorado and working in a fine dining restaurant there and started out as a bartender there and as things progressed I took on more responsibilities and really started to understand um the relationship of somebody who is passionate about their work learning how to not just do the work but being in the care and charge of customers and employees and making the best possible experience for both and that led me to want to do that in the construction industry and so I had the opportunity to work with my father here in Richmond again and i couldn't pass it up and we've been doing some really cool and fun things since. That's really interesting. You know, I see a lot of the more successful family businesses where they have this, I don't know if that was intentional on your and your father's side, but they intentionally don't have the family members come straight into the business, but they have them cut their teeth in other companies. And then when they have matured to some degree, they got experience, they proved their mettle, then they are allowed to come in and play a role in the family business. So I don't know if that was the case for you or some other consideration. Yeah, not very intentional. I think growing up with a contractor father, I found my way back and it really was important for me to have that time away and having somebody else be responsible for my development for a time really stretched me in ways that I needed to be stretched. I totally relate to this, this concept of not necessarily wanting to be in the shadow of your parents to prove yourself. So as you guys are, I mean, this is a fast growing company and you've got a great niche, concrete repair, which is kind of a blue ocean, as we call it, where you're kind of sailing forward, pretty rapidly growing. On your journey, have you used a management blueprint or business framework that have particularly inspired you and which you implemented in your business? I think like everyone, you kind of take bits and pieces of things that really resonate with you and you kind of hobble things together a bit, but there's a book, Reinventing Organizations by a Belgian, Frederic Laloux, and he kind of explains this evolutionary process of business models. And that really resonated with us when we were reading that book. He makes some strong arguments for why things have progressed in the business world the way they have and how every system has its deficiencies and how the next evolution of trying to solve those deficiencies, brings us into a new age of how we might conduct business...

Are you considering a new way of working? Is it possible to give people the freedom to lead projects they are great at and to collaborate regardless of hierarchy? It might be time to consider self-management. In this episode, Frederic Laloux, best-selling author and former Associate Partner with McKinsey & Company, discusses these ideas as well as his book Reinventing Organizations.Greg & Frederic discuss new models of self-management management, as well as myths and misconceptions surrounding teal organizations and self-management.Episode Quotes:Why management education has remained the same for the past 15 to 20 years15, 20 years ago, there was still faith in our management systems. Like at the time, it was G.E. and Jack Welch. That was the kind of hero we have, and G.E. had to figure out how management works. And I don't know anybody who says that management works today. Like all the business leaders I talk to —will behind closed doors —admit that everything is too slow. People aren't motivated, it's not innovative enough, and it's all too bureaucratic.What is a teal organization?This is not a model that I cooked up. This is not a theoretical thing. This is me observing stuff emerging everywhere and just studying organizations whose leaders were discontent with the existing model and who went out to create something entirely different— just an entirely different way of managing their organizations. Often by a lot of trial and error and stumbling upon something powerful, that worked extraordinarily well. And they often thought that they were the only crazy fools doing that. And, at some point, when I found 1, 2, 3, 4, or 12 of them, I noticed that there was this pattern.The biggest misconception about self-managementThe problem with self-management is that as soon as you say it, a lot of us, including me, got all these wrong ideas when I started researching this. “Oh, self-management means everybody is the same. Everybody's equal”. No, it's everybody is as powerful as they can be. We actually want hierarchy. We just want organic hierarchies. We don't want to be fixed in boxes, in reporting lines.Show LinksGuest ProfileFrederic Laloux: Official BioFrederic Laloux on LinkedInFrederic Laloux on Twitter His WorkOfficial Website of Reinventing OrganizationsReinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human ConsciousnessReinventing Organizations: An Illustrated Invitation to Join the Conversation on Next-Stage Organizations

The accumulation of power seems like a good idea at first. Then we see how deeply insecure some billionaires and leaders of countries can be. What if no amount of power could ever make you feel safe? What if it was just another thing that could be taken away from you? What if being empowered is the key to the only security that truly sets you free?"Power is control over other people and empowered means that you are not looking for control of others. You are just being you despite the consequences."The accumulation of power seems like a good idea at first. Then we see how deeply insecure some billionaires and leaders of countries can be. What if no amount of power could ever make you feel safe? What if it was just another thing that could be taken away from you? What if being empowered is the key to the only security that truly sets you free? Brett: Joe, what makes this distinction so important?Joe: The empowered overpower distinction. I think there's a deep confusion in us as a people and internally between the two and that confusion is what creates the subjugation that we feel both in the relationship to ourselves and the relationship with the outside world. To clarify that confusion, to actually see that we are always a choice and that choice is always empowered, whether we want to admit it or not is a way to set us free from that subjugation.Brett: Power is real. There are people who really do have power over us and there are situations in which we have limited control. That must be partially responsible for our situation.Joe: Yes and no. The thing is, that we're all interdependent, everything is interdependent. It's like a gigantic machine if you will or a gigantic ecosystem. Who has the power, the ants or the mountain lion or the rabbits? If any of them go, the whole system changes. The whole system is dependent on all the other parts of the system. In that way, yes, there are things that have power over us. If you're a deer, deer ticks have power over you and mountain lions have power over you, but if you're a mountain lion, deer have power over you because if the deer disappear, you're screwed, you're not eating. There's a way of looking at it that says, "Oh, wow, everything that I'm interdependent on has power over me." You can look at it that way and it's absolutely true. The other way to look at it is that, our choice is ours. We get to choose and we might not like the consequences. We don't always have control over the consequences. I think when we don't have control over the consequences, that's when the mind wants to say, "Oh, somebody has power over me." But there's nobody on this planet that isn't dependent on somebody else or something else.Take the most powerful person in the world, if people stop buying their product or if people rebel against them or if the price of oil goes to $20 a barrel and all of a sudden, their money to control their society goes away. Everybody has something like that. It's something that I think about oftentimes when I'm thinking about CEOs and my experience in working with them is that they have more bosses than anybody. They have their key employees who they need to keep happy, their customers they need to keep happy, their shareholders they need to keep happy. They have Board of Directors they need to keep happy. There are so many people who they are dependent on or they need their approval or they need them to buy into their vision in some way. There's nobody in this system that isn't dependent on other people. There's nobody in this system that isn't scared to change the system because of consequences. As one person is sitting there and saying, "Hey, if I stand up for myself, I'll lose my job." There's a CEO that says, "Hey, if I don't give my quarterly numbers, I'll lose my job. If I don't get to the quarterly numbers, I'll lose my job." There's a billionaire that's like, "Wow, if I don't keep on finding more oil, I'm going to lose my fortune." There's something everywhere, everybody's got something. In that aspect, absolutely, everybody has somebody who has power over them. I think we often think about the people who diversified, like lots of customers or lots of people as more powerful, meaning that they're not dependent on one person. They're not dependent on one customer. They feel more powerful on our system but, everybody's dependent.Brett: It sounds like what you're pointing at in terms of power, when something has power over us, it's setting the constraints of our environment. If we have power over someone else, we have the power to set the constraints for the system in some way, but that doesn't tell the whole story. There's what we do within the constraints and which constraints we buy into or don't.Joe: That's it. Inside of the constraints, you're completely empowered. The way that you show up inside the constraints, the constraints have to adjust. Meaning, if you are scared of losing your job and you say, "Forget it, I'm going to show up the way that feels right for me and if I get fired, I get fired." You will change the system. There's no way for it not to change, even if you get fired. There's no way for the system not to change. There's no way that the way you interact with the system doesn't affect it.Brett: Even the structure of a company or even the interpersonal relations in your team will change if you're not being the same cog in the ecosystem that was existing before.Joe: That's right. You see this. Working with CEOs and working with billionaires, you see this all the time, that there's a whole bunch of things that they want to affect change on that they can't. They don't know how to or that nobody knows how to or it's just beyond their control. It's not like anybody in any situation doesn't have something that they're not able to affect the change on. There're billionaires that I know that if they could control everything, they would have more billions and there're billionaires I know, that if they could control everything, everybody would have social and economic equality but they can't, just like we can't, you can't, I can't, nobody can. As long as you need to control a situation to feel empowered, then you are subjugated.Brett: That's not real empowerment.Joe: That's right.Brett: Where does this come from? Where does this yearning for power arise from if not empowerment?Joe: Fear. If we're making the distinction between power and empowered and I think that even in our language, oftentimes, when someone says, "I feel powerful," they mean empowered. As far as the semantics we're going to use, that means empowered. Then some people are like, "I feel powerful, meaning I have control over you." People who want to feel powerful control over situations just fear. They are scared. On some level, we all are scared when we are looking to find power. Now, power might come to us and just because I have power doesn't mean I'm scared, but if I'm looking for it, then I'm scared.Brett: How does achieving some sense of power actually satiate or affect that fear, or does it?Joe: It doesn't. It's like any addiction. There's a short-term high that you get and then it's over. I remember when I was in one of my poorest times in my life when I had the least amount of resources and my attitude towards money and power was changing. I was driving in my car and I was thinking, "Oh, I don't have enough." As it turned out at that time, I knew several billionaires and I went through the list and I'm like, "Oh, they're driving around right now thinking they don't have enough either." Like, "Oh my God, I'm a billionaire." My situation, their situation is no different. They can affect some change in a way that I can't, but I can affect some change in the way that they can't.Brett: I could imagine a situation where a billionaire even feels more powerless, because they realize they have all this money and they're actually not able to change the world. So they don't get to believe that money would solve that problem for them.Joe: That's right. That's the thing is, one of the best investors I ever met said that if you see somebody who thinks that money is going to solve their problems, don't invest. They're dead right. Capitalization doesn't solve problems. It makes them bigger often.Brett: You throw money at problems and you end up with bigger problems that require money to sustain.Joe: Yes, that's right. It's like this illusion, once you have the power, then you got to worry about holding on to it. Another billionaire guy told me at one point, he said, “Everybody works, Joe. Everybody works.” If you have a billion dollars, you got to work to maintain it. Everybody works.Brett: If you're going for social capital, you have the billion dollars. You still have to work to maintain social capital and connections.Joe: Yes, or you've got $54 billion and you can't affect an election. One guy with maybe a billion dollars can beat another guy with 54 billion. Both of them can be beaten with somebody with less than a million. Power isn't accumulated by more power. It makes it easier in some forms of power, but sometimes having large amounts of power actually make it harder to accumulate power.Brett: In the current election cycle, trying to get elected as a billionaire takes you down a whole bunch of notches already.Joe: Right, or being a really big shot investor with a lot of power. On some level, there's some benefits to it and on other levels, a lot of people follow you, which creates complications as far as liquidity and other things. It's the same thing with somebody who has the power of leadership in a small community. On one level, there's certain things that they can affect change around that other people can't and in another level, there are certain things they can't.There's a certain balance that is struck in any leadership position and some things can be taken away from you more readily and some things you can't affect change on. It's something that I realized when I was in Boards of Directors. Sometimes in certain Boards of Directors, I had more power being off the board than I did being on the board. Being on the board, I was part of the dynamic and I couldn't help the leadership see through the dynamic. My capacity to help people see through the dynamic was more powerful than having a vote.Brett: Everything unseen and behind the curtain kind of thing.Joe: The way that I define power is, that power is the thing that can be taken away from you. Empowerment can't be taken away from you. Power is control over other people and empowered means that you're not looking for control of others. You're just being you despite the consequences. Power is looking to find safety. It's an expression of fear. Empowered is standing in the face of that fear and being truthful to yourself.If you think about every story that we've ever heard, it's always the story of the person who goes against the consequences for their truth. This is what we long for in ourselves is that, “I'm going to be empowered in a way that I will do the right thing despite the consequences whether I'm saving somebody from a burning building or whether I'm risking my job to be authentic.” That's what empowered is.Brett: Yes, burning building was a good example because, running into a burning building to save somebody, the fire has power over you. There's nothing anybody's going to do to change that, but you are going into the burning building to do your truth, to try to save somebody regardless of the consequences. You're willing to experience and feel the consequences of coming up against something with much greater power than you.Joe: Yes, that's right. There's the material power, like money or gun or fire and then there's also just the power of influence over you or other people. What I noticed is that when people act empowered, eight times out of 10, maybe seven times out of 10, the consequence that they're scared of doesn't come to pass. Even though the moment before they take that action, they're pretty sure it's inevitable. If I'm saying I'm going to be true to my wife even though I might lose her, eight times out of 10, I'm not going to lose her. If I'm saying I'm going to be true to myself even if I might get fired, eight out of 10 times, I don't get fired.If you're actually going into a burning building, I don't know what the odds are. It is not something that I have enough experience with. I will say, the other part of that is that even when you act empowered and things don't go the way you want them to go, they end up going the way you want them to go eventually. Meaning, yes, maybe your wife leaves you but eventually, you get in a relationship that works for you. Meaning that as you act empowered, as you act in your truth, the world that can handle your truth surrounds you and that becomes your reality bubble. We're all in these echo chambers. If I believe one political thing, I'm going to be in an echo chamber of verification of that. If I believe something else, I'll be in an echo chamber that verifies that. It's how our consciousness works and if we're true to ourselves, we end up in an echo chamber that is true to ourselves.Brett: It seems there's a difference between the actual constraints that our environment places on us and then the predictive constraints that we are simulating, that we are actually acting on, which are not exactly the real constraints of the environment. If we start operating in a way that doesn't fit the constraints of our immediate environment, we may end up losing a partnership, we may end up losing a job. If we stick with operating as though the world had the constraints that we want, eventually, we will only end up fitting into a system that fits those constraints.Joe: That's right. You see this in great leadership. I would say that one of the ways that you know that you're empowered is that you're acting in a way as if your reality is already true, that your vision is already true. If you're a civil rights leader, you're acting as if you are already equal and free. You're being that example for everybody to follow and you're assuming that everybody will treat you that way. It starts bending the world into that way of treating you. If you feel like you're less than, then your civil rights movement by its nature will have more friction in it. More people will treat you as you're less than.It's the same with anything-- if you're acting as a leader of a CEO and you're like, “Of course, we're going to be successful,” and you're acting like you're successful. When you're in the negotiations, you're acting like you're successful, then the world wants to bend towards that. It doesn't mean it bends towards it all the time, but it wants to bend towards that. That's what being a visionary is and that is, if you're empowered, then that visionary nature starts becoming more and more obvious to you. It just becomes something that starts happening.Brett: That brings up an interesting subtlety, the idea of acting as though you're already successful. It seems like there could be ways of performing success that are not beneficial, but the actual belief that you are successful. How would you distinguish between those two things?Joe: The way I would distinguish between those two things is, that there's a great story. It was an admiral in the Navy who got into a POW camp in Vietnam and he was asked who made it, who didn't make it? He said, “Well, who didn't make it was easy. That was the optimist.” The interviewer is like, “What do you mean optimist?” He said, “It means that they thought they were going to get out by Christmas or by the next season or whatever it was. They didn't make it, because when that came, that timetable came and left, they became defeated and they didn't make it.” He said, “Well, who did make it?” He said, “Well, that's clear, it's the people who thought that they would get out. The people who maintained that vision of their own freedom.”Brett: In that sense, if we find ourselves performing successfulness and then, signs of failure come, then that can just completely break down and we'll actually just believe our failure and that'll be the end, whereas realizing that this business can entirely fail and I still feel empowered as the person who can be successful.Joe: Correct and will be. It might be the next business. You see this all the time when people are transforming. When they're changing, they have this massive breakthrough and then they go, “Oh!” then, they feel disempowered because of the power of the pattern and they're like, "How do I keep it? How do I keep this breakthrough?" As soon as you see that, as soon as you see somebody start wrestling with how do I keep it, you know that it's going to be in flux. You know that it's going to pendulate back and forth for a while.But when the person sees it so clearly that they're like, "Of course, this is what's happening," then it's over. Even if it comes back a little bit, it's over. The whole process is quicker. If somebody has been getting angry a ton in their world and then all of a sudden they have this breakthrough of like, "Oh my gosh, it's not that I'm angry. It's that I'm hurt." They start crying and they see this new reality.  They're like, "Yes." Of course, they don't need to hold on to it. Then you know that that change is going to be smooth and quick. If they are like, "Oh my God, I see it. How do I keep it?" Then you know that they're not fully empowered.Brett: That's a belief that's fragile then and that they don't really have it.Joe: Exactly. In that belief system, they still feel like this thing has power over them, this influence. What's interesting is, of course, it has power over you, of course and it's exactly that that you need to enter into. It's exactly that helplessness that helps us become empowered. What I mean by that specifically, because that can be incredibly confusing is, that going through the feeling of helplessness is what creates, oftentimes, that sense of empowerment.Brett: Yes, that's important, because what you were just saying earlier is that the power itself or the seeking of power as a deep expression of fear and it seems like that would be the fear of feeling the helplessness, the fear of being helpless. If you just move through that helplessness, then you end up on the other side feeling empowered.Joe: That's it. You just said it better than I could.Brett: Is there anything else you want to add to the definition of empowered?Joe: Yes. Empowered really is a feeling. It's a state. It's not a life condition. Meaning, you can be a billionaire and feel empowered and you can be in poverty and feel empowered. It's not really about how many resources you have. It's about your resourcefulness. It's knowing that you have the courage to do what's true for you. The other thing about empoweredness is that you can't really love without it. If you look at all the people who we see as beacons of love, there is a deep sense of empowerment to them. If you close your eyes and you go inside and you feel what it is to be unconditionally loving and then you feel what it is to be unconditionally empowered, you'll notice that they're two sides of the same mountain and you can't get to the peak without both sides of the mountain.Brett: I'm curious about what some of the different ways are that we allow ourselves to have power taking over us. What are some of the types of power? There can be economic power, there could be emotional power. I think a lot of this could allude to the victim-savior-bully stuff that we've discussed in some of the other episodes.Joe: When we're in fear, which is often when we're seeking power over another person, we're often in a victim, savior or a bully role. That is a good sign that you're in the power over. You can have power over somebody by being a bully. That role we know really well. Our society agrees with that one. They're like, "Oh yes, that person's a bully. They want power over." But you can get power over people as a victim too. I was watching a television show about magic and for whatever reason, they had this group of moms and they were all talking about guilt. They were all laughing and smiling over how guilt was a good way to control their kids. It's like, "Right, that is how people can control through the victim." Like, I'm so fragile that you can't tell me your truth. If there is somebody in your life that you can't tell your truth to because you're scared of hurting them, then you're being somebody who's controlling through victimhood. It's the same way with a savior. You can control people by saving them. You see this in very wealthy families all the time. They maintain control over their children by making sure that their money is there to save them. Or the Al-Anon saving the alcoholic. It happens all the time. There's all sorts of ways in which we are trying to have power over people. They mostly fit in the three categories, which is victim, savior and bully.Brett: The example with the rich people with the money doing the savior thing, I think there's many ways that that could apply to philanthropy as well.Joe: Yes, absolutely.Brett: Philanthropy can be done in a way that is entirely disempowering and that it can be done in a way that is empowering and I think a lot of that would come from the mindset of the people involved on all sides of it in the system.Joe: That's right. When I did a lot of philanthropy with schools and with kids, I would stay away from working with anybody who was coming from a place of guilt, that they were doing it because they felt guilty because their philanthropy just didn't work. If they were trying to help people, I would also stay away from it. If they were working with people so that both they and the people they were there to serve were being helped, then those were effective.Brett: What's an example of how that would work? Philanthropy failing, because it came from a place of guilt.Joe: I was in Nicaragua at one point and there was a group of Canadians there that had brought a whole bunch of clothing for this village. They all felt really great about themselves. When I asked them why they did it, they were all like, "Oh, I just feel bad that we have so much and I want to spread it." There's nothing wrong with it, but it just isn't successful. I remember sitting with them and saying, "Hey, there's all these turtles here that are going extinct." All these people could be saving the turtles. What if they earned their clothing by helping the turtles? How does that change this whole system?What it does change is, it makes people have an equal exchange and so they feel empowered. If somebody's just giving them stuff without an exchange, then it's actually quite disempowering because now you have power over them because they need you to give them stuff. In the '70s in Africa, you saw where food drops would happen. Then when the people who had the walkie talkies that helped the food drops happen went away, the native people tried to build fake walkie talkies and act like the person with the walkie talkies to get the food to drop.It's like you're not teaching that person how to fish. You're giving them fish. When people act out of guilt, that's usually how it works, because they feel like they have to give. Good philanthropy is an exchange. It's not a gift. It's a recognition that you're getting as much from it as you're giving.Brett: That segues to another interesting thing from earlier in the conversation about your empowerment is something that you have to give up. You choose to give up your empowerment. Let's talk a little more about that.Joe: There's a choice that you make and every time that you feel like you've been disempowered or that someone has power over you and you can't be true to yourself, then what's actually happening is that you are choosing to avoid a potential bad consequence. That's a choice that you're making. You have to choose that for it to be the case. Mandela had everything taken from him except his life. He was crushing rocks. He was beaten. It was not pretty for him and yet he stayed empowered. He continued to make choices and knew the choices that he was making despite the consequences.Brett: How does that work in daily life? Like with a job or perhaps with a receiver of philanthropy, trying to become empowered, but finding that the moment they become empowered, they stop receiving gifts and so, it's easier not to.Joe: Yes, it's really true. It's harder to raise money for something that's deeply empowered too, it's interesting that way. But then again, the people who truly feel empowered don't need to raise as much money. They have other ways of making things happen. Yes, it's a good question. How does it happen in daily life? One of the ways that I work with my clients on this often that makes it really acute is-- and I mentioned it a bit in the beginning, but I'll use a different example. It's like a husband that's deeply unhappy in his marriage. I'll ask the question, what if you act exactly how you want to act and see if they leave you, see if the divorce occurs. That's an empowered act. It's like, "Oh, I'm not going to compromise my authenticity, my truth to keep your love. I'm not going to compromise my authenticity and my truth to keep the job. I'm not going to compromise my authenticity and my truth to avoid the conflict and that's when people feel disempowered is, when they don't make that choice. That's when people complain about somebody having power over them.Brett: Right? Like believing that we're not going to be able to find another job, if we leave this job or believing we're never going to find another partner, if things don't work out with this one and we don't conform to this structure we're in.Joe: Yes. Then that becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly when you're dealing with one-on-one relationships, but then when it comes to being in a company or being in a country or being part of a geopolitical system, it becomes a little bit harder to see, because the change that you're creating is just less palpable. It's because it's a numbers game and so it becomes harder for people to see in that way.But that's an intellectual thing. On an emotional and a gut level, you feel it right away, you know it right away when you are acting empowered in those situations, say, "Oh, I'm going to be this way," and I see it all the time. It's like if you look at the people who are breaking the social norms in a way that is liberating for them, that are the front runners or the trailblazers, if you look at those folks, they are the ones who are not buying into the consequences.Brett: It's contagious then like, if you're looking for a social change, it requires empowerment on a population level. It might feel from a disempowered place that if you're the only person who becomes empowered, you're just going to get steamrolled by the system. Yet, you look at examples like MLK and it's, one person was empowered enough to have like a halo around them, creating more empowerment.Joe: Yes and he died. Right. There was somebody who had a gun and that's real power and it affected change. He had real power and it affected change. Both of the men who shot and the man who got shot in this particular case, both affected massive change in the world. The difference between the two is one felt empowered and one felt disempowered. The change that we affect when we feel disempowered usually doesn't serve ourselves or humanity.Brett: Yes, that reminds me of the archetype of the rebel, somebody who feeling what they think is power, ends up destroying their life and others in the name of their truth. Whoever shot MLK felt like they were following their truth and you see this all the time. Let's talk about that.Joe: Yes. It's really hard to see the difference sometimes, especially when you're in the middle of it and it's subtle until you see it and when you see it, it's clear. If you are in blame for another person or shame for yourself, then you are disempowered and you are trying to accumulate power. If you are not in blame or for others or shame for yourself, then that is empowered. That's the emotional way to know where you're at.Brett: Or guilt I guess, guilt and shame can be distinguished as well a little bit.Joe: Yes, guilt and shame. We'll put them together. Those are such-- semantically, that's a very interesting thing and it's very culturally based, but yes, guilt, shame, blame, all that stuff is a good indicator that you're disempowered.Brett: Earlier we were talking about the drama triangle with the bully and the victim and the savior and how that's based in fear. Can you relate that to blame and shame?Joe: Yes, so oftentimes, that fear is based on the sense of helplessness. That sense of helplessness is because we believe the story of blame and shame in our head. When you feel like someone else's making your life X, Y and Z way, then you're in blame and there's a helplessness and there's a fear that you will lose complete control and therefore, you need to have control over. Or, there's a shame, like, “I'm inherently bad.” There's no way out of that. It's a deep feeling of helplessness and we're scared of feeling that helplessness, so we then move into the drama triangle or the fear triangle. That's how it works. It's that helplessness is the feeling of that blame and shame felt all the way through, that we don't want to feel. That's the amazing thing about feeling helplessness. Feeling helplessness doesn't make you more helpless. Feeling helpless makes you more capable. It's so counterintuitive, but if you do it, you know it, right, because so much of our decision-making process is based on trying to avoid an emotional state. The emotional state of helplessness is one of the ones underlying most of our avoidance.Brett: What are some of the indicators for each of these particular roles? If all of them are fear state being set into place with blame and shame and we need to feel helplessness to get through them, what are some of the indicators for some of these particular roles of victim, bully and savior?Joe: The reason I don't call the drama triangle very often and I'm more prone to call it the fear triangle is because, the victim, bully and savior correspond with fight, flight or freeze, which are the states of fear. Fight is pretty obviously bully. Right? It's like, when I'm scared, I fight. When I'm scared, I freeze, that's more victim. When I'm scared, I fly, that's savior and that's the harder one to understand. But what happens is, I run away from myself in my own experience and I try to fix you, so that I can feel safe. If I can make it so you don't get drunk, I'll feel safe. If I can make it, that you're happy, then I'll feel safe.I'm running away from myself going into you to try to fix my issues and so, that's why I call it the fear triangle. There's a feeling for each one of them, right? It's kind of the indicator. The indicator is, if I am feeling all alone in it, that's the bully. If I feel obligation, that's the savior and if I feel stuck, that's the victim. In actuality, we'll feel all three of these things if you really slow it down for a minute and you'll notice that you'll feel all three of these things in a moment of fear. My wife comes home, she's in a horrible mood and I feel helpless that now my mood is going to be screwed up and the house is going to be screwed up and the kids are going to be screwed like, “I can't do anything.” I might feel alone, like, "Oh, God, I can't. I'm the only one who has to fix this thing." Then I feel, "Oh my God, I got to do something for her so that she feels better and then I'm stuck with this thing." It's like all three of them can happen slowly or quickly. But there's one that usually we dominate in situations that are dominating us in situations. Most people tend towards fight, flight or freeze most of the time.Brett: Yes, I personally tend towards the savior.Joe: Yes, I have tended towards both savior and bully. Those are the two places I'll go depending on the circumstance. Yes and often in quick succession.Brett: Let's talk a little bit more about how this works in companies and in teams.Joe: It works in a number of ways. The first is, you see this happening all the time in companies and teams, that somebody is acting like the victim or some group is acting like the victim. Some are acting as the savior. There's different ways that they're trying to create control. The less empowered the team feels, the more drama and that's a great-- as soon as you walk into a team, if it's super political, it's just like everybody feels disempowered. You just know it. Where everybody feels empowered and they feel like they can affect change, there's so little politics that are going on. It's a great litmus test.Brett: Right, because politics is a control mechanism.Joe: Correct. Yes, it's that fear. Drama. That's the thing that you see in politics everywhere. I don't mean politics as in people running countries. I mean politics. It might be people running countries.Brett: People being political. Joe: Being political, right. It's a deep expression of fear and people trying to capture power. Exactly. It's because everybody feels helpless and feels like they're not actually able to affect change in a way that's meaningful.Brett: How do you affect this kind of change in a company, whether you're leading the company or you're within the company or at the bottom of some ladder?Joe: Yes. Well, this is the tricky bit, because as a leader of a company, you want your people to be empowered. You also, often out of fear, want to limit their capacity to affect change. I don't want the new mail clerk to decide what my initial public offering price is going to be. It's this constant balance of people feeling empowered. You wanting people to feel empowered and at the same time, a fear of having that power runaway or this lack of control. This is the balance and the subtle war that's happening oftentimes with leaders.You'll hear it all the time because they'll say something like, "I wish everybody would act like the owner of the company." They mean that to a point, meaning they want everyone to take responsibility like that, but they don't want everybody to have all the benefits and they don't want everybody to have all the choice that they have. There's this very interesting balance that happens. What's happening in those companies is that the empowerment and the roles have gotten confused.If everybody can feel empowered in their role and their role is defined and how decisions are made is defined, then people feeling deeply empowered is incredibly good for a company. As soon as those roles aren't defined well, as soon as people don't know what they have to do to be successful, then a whole bunch of empowered people just creates a lot of mess. Brett: It sounds like there's a bit of a paradox here, where having well-defined roles and well-defined processes is structure and that could be something that people feel has power over them. Then also what you want is them to feel empowered to push back and change that structure or work fully within the structure and also perhaps challenge it. If you don't have structure like clear goals, criteria for success, loving accountability, transparency, then what happens there? There's a powerlessness in having no structure.Joe: That's right. Yes, if there's no way to affect change or make decisions, then what you'll have is this crazy politics with people trying to get power so that they can feel safe. Yes, you want to have some sort of structure that allows itself to change and a structure that doesn't change without very specific things happening, so that people can feel safe that they know what to do, that they know what success means. This doesn't matter if it's AA or Enron. In AA, there's a very particular structure that has to happen. There's 12 steps. There's the way that the meetings get run and that structure happens. It's important or people can't feel safe in those environments. In Uber, there's very particular structures in place. There's, "I'm going to rate you five stars or not," and there's another structure of making sure that drivers don't rip other people off by tracking them on maps. Those structures are really incredibly critical or people don't feel safe. Will those structures need to change over time? Absolutely. But, you need the structure for people to feel safe and know what their roles are. Then you need to be able to make room for people to grow and change their roles. The Constitution of the United States does a pretty good job of it, too.Brett: Yes, sets a structure. Joe: Yes. That's the balance that you're constantly looking for is, “How I create the amount of structure that makes people feel safe but also gives them autonomy and gives them the capacity to feel as empowered as possible.” Brett: Includes mechanisms for that structure itself to be updated to match reality.Joe: Absolutely. Right, that's it. That's how looking at company-- and what you see typically is, the more transparency and the less structure that creates safety, the more elegant the structure is that creates safety, then the more successful the company. Taxi cabs becoming Uber is an example of this, less structure, less infrastructure, but it creates actually more safety. It's the same thing that happened with GM and Toyota. Toyota became more decentralized than GM, which was at the time, the most centralized company. That decentralization, but still maintaining the structure, is what usually gives those companies a competitive advantage. The reason is, because it creates more empowerment with the employees.Brett: It seems like this would also promote scalability for a company, because if you have 100 empowered decision-makers instead of three, then more decisions can be made and more information can be processed.Joe: That's exactly right. Yes. You saw that there was a-- I can't remember, it was one of the Malcolm Gladwell books talked about, how in this war game that the Pentagon does, this small band of people beat the US Army, because their decision-making was happening at the bottom. There was some set of principles, some set of structure that they could all operate within. That's basically how you do it. It was in David and Goliath, was I think his book. You see that all the time and you see it in business books as well, like Reinventing Organizations, where the same principle is there. Brett: Yes, another war game example, just war example, would be when Rommel first encountered US troops in Northern Africa. He was like, "Oh, these guys are totally green and completely disorganized. It'll be a cinch." Then, not long after, he was writing letters back to Germany like, "Wait, don't underestimate these people. You can cut off an entire unit from their command and somehow, they'll still figure out how to fight."Joe: But this isn't just an external thing. This is an internal thing as well. When you become more empowered, you start operating on a set of principles and that set of principles, you're going to operate on whether it's comfortable or not. If I have a principle that basically says, "I am not going to work with assholes," and somebody says, "Here's a billion dollars to work with an asshole," I'm going to say, "No." It's a set of principles.  I'm not going to operate any differently than that. If I have a set of principles and it's like, I'm going to be transparent with people and tell them my truth despite the consequences, that's my set of principles. I'm going to do it no matter what. That's when all the drama in me starts disappearing. That's when I feel empowered is, I've given myself a structure that it doesn't change very readily. It takes some time to change that set of principles, but I'm going to operate in that way no matter what. That helps me feel deeply empowered, which is strange. It's like a set of criteria that I live by  that actually makes me feel empowered.Brett: Yes, as though this entire process of inquiry into values is to create a more and more consolidated, elegant structure by which we live our lives, so that we don't have to think about the complicated consequences and how the consequences are going to play out of, “What if I say this to my boss? Or speak my truth here or leave this job?” It's just, this is simply how I want to live and I'll accept the consequences if that's what it takes.Joe: That's exactly right. Yes, that set of principles is what frees us. If you look around at the people who you just saw like,  “Holy crap, they didn't have resources, but they were empowered and they changed the world.” That's something else they all have in common. They were living by a set of principles internally and externally. Not perfectly,  obviously. We're humans. We are not made perfect, but it's generally how one lives their life. When you see somebody who's living by a set of principles, you'll also notice that they never are blaming other folks. They're never worried about somebody's power over them. They're addressing it. Brett: That also will affect your opportunities as well. When I'm hiring, I'm much more interested in the resourcefulness and the ownership, the self-ownership of the person rather than the skills listed on their resume. People really detect that in any counterpart that they might work with.Joe: That's right, I'd rather pick the right mentality than the right skillset, for sure. I obviously like to pick both when I can, but yes, that's right. This is what happens internally, like I said, as well as externally, the drama internally goes away when we feel empowered internally, when we don't feel that we will make the choice even if it's uncomfortable. Even if I have to feel helpless, I'm going to make that choice. Even if I have to-- I'm not going to have power over somebody else or try to have power over myself. I will rather feel the discomfort of the fear and the helplessness. I'll rather enter into the shame. I would rather allow my own destruction as far as the destruction of my identity, my identity as one who's put upon or my identity as one who's valuable. I'd rather allow that to be destroyed, rather than move into fear and act from fear and try to have control over somebody. It's an internal and an external thing. When you figure it out internally, you have no choice but to act externally. If you feel like you are subjugated by something externally, then you also feel like you're subjugated by something internally.Brett: That sounds like a great point to wrap this up on. Thank you very much, Joe.Joe: Yes. Pleasure, Brett. Thank you very much.Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment podcast.  If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe. We would love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions and comments. To reach us, join our newsletter, learn more about VIEW, or to take a course, visit: artofaccomplishment.comResources:Frederic Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, https://www.reinventingorganizations.com/Malcolm Gladwell, David and Goliath: Underdogs, Misfits and the Art of Battling Giants

When we consider how we want life to be in the future we often create a list of things that we have to improve about ourselves. Yet we rarely consider that we could succeed in “improving” every aspect of our lives, and by doing so, completely lose touch with who we are and what we want. What if learning who we are creates a future far better than what we think we want? What if it creates a future better than we could imagine?"I will watch people and if they are just following their intuition, they will just pick the next thing. This is what we do, when we are just following our nature. My nature, my authenticity improved me in ways I didn't even know were happening."When we consider how we want life to be in the future, we often create a list of things that we have to improve about ourselves. Yet, we rarely consider that we can succeed in improving every aspect of our lives and by doing so, completely lose touch with who we are and what we want. What if learning who we are creates a future far better than what we think we want? What if it creates a future better than what we could imagine? Today's episode is about valuing authenticity over improvement. Brett: Joe, let's talk about authenticity. What is authenticity?Joe: Authenticity is an endless spiral in one way and the fact that it's evolutionary by nature. We think that there is an authentic self and it is the solid thing, but it's not. It's as we discover ourselves, there's always more to discover. As we discover ourselves, we transform. Authenticity is really a path more than a destination. The way that you can identify when you're on that path of authenticity is, it's always about the process. It's never about the reward. It's never like a means to an end. It's like a river. It's very much like a river in the fact that there's a way that a river wants to run and that's the natural flow of the river.Next year, you'll come back and that river will run a different way. Authenticity is constantly changing, but there's just this natural flow to it. In Daoism, they call it the way. It's a very natural course. They call it self-discovery. They don't call it self-building. We're not building ourselves, we're discovering ourselves. That's why ultimately the path of authenticity is a path of self-realization. It is finding out the truth of who you are. Somehow, for some reason, the more we discover who we are, the more that we evolve, the more that we change, the more that we show up in a way that is far more gentle, or loving, competent, capable and strong.Brett: Can you talk a little bit more about self-realization?Joe: Yes, self-realization. There's a story of, I think it's in the Upanishads. I can't remember which tradition. So many times traditions have really similar parables. There's another parable very much like this about a tiger, but this one's about a musk deer. This musk deer is moving along one day. There's a smell and it's like, "What is that smell?" It just feels like a memory. It feels like a calling. It's like something gets opened up in this musk deer. His impulse is like, "I need to follow this thing. I need to follow it."It goes searching for the place where the scent emerges. It wants to find the origin of that scent. It looks and looks and looks and looks and it's almost upon its death, still looking for the scent and falls off of a cliff and punctures its stomach. It realizes, at that moment of death that, "Oh, the thing that I've been searching for comes from me. That scent emanates from me." That is the movement of self-realization. The thing that we're looking for in all the self-improvement, what we're actually looking for, is ourselves.Brett: How can you relate the story of the deer following its own scent to our path of self-realization? Joe: The search of the deer looking for the scent is the self-improvement. It's like, "Once I eat the right diet, then I'll be good enough, or I'll be awake, or then I'll be loved. Once I look pretty, then I'll be good enough and then I'll be loved. Once I lose enough weight, once I meditate enough, once I have no more negative thoughts, once I stop thinking," whatever it is that you think you have to do, become rich enough. Then you'll have it and you'll find the scent that you're looking for. The scent you're actually looking for is you, it is to understand yourself.It's the only thing that really solves the issue. It's why you see so many executives and I've worked with so many executives who are at the top of their game. They've made a successful billion-dollar company and they're miserable. They did everything that they thought they needed to do to improve themselves, so that they will be loved or that they would accept themselves and nothing's really changed. As soon as they start on that path of self-realization, as soon as they are looking for their own authenticity and they no longer are willing to sell that authenticity or bargain that authenticity for a result, when it stops becoming a means to an end-- it just is like, "This is my authentic expression." Then their life starts unfolding in happiness and joy.Brett: Let's talk a little bit more about that scent trail then. How would you define improvement?Joe: Yes. Improvement is basically,  “If this, then this”, in terms of the self. It's like, "If I get sexy enough, then I will have the lover that I want. If I lose enough weight, then people will like me. If I have enough money, then I'll feel secure." Improvement is thinking that you're going to get a result from it. Authenticity is the opposite. It's, "This is what I'm going to do despite the consequences, because it's my authentic truth." That's basically what improvement comes. It comes from the idea of ways that we don't want to be who we are. The other way to look at all the ways we think we need to improve is all the ways that we don't love ourselves just as we are.Any point where you can't unconditionally love yourself, whether that is because you yell, because you don't work hard enough, because you're lazy, because you're a pessimist, whatever it is that you are telling yourself that you have to change, they're just ways that you're not loving yourself. They don't typically change. We just keep on telling ourselves that we don't love that about ourselves and we keep on telling ourselves that we have to improve it. When we actually accept our authenticity, those things just naturally move. They just shift.Brett: Reminds me of a quote that I've heard before, where somebody is speaking to somebody as though they were a child. They ask the question, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” Instead of thinking to ask, "How do you want to be when you grow up?"Joe: I have never heard that. That's beautiful. How do you want to be when you grow up? The other way to think about self-realization I think it's a Pema Chödrön quote. It's basically to constantly offer yourself up to annihilation, so you can find out what's the part of you that can't be annihilated.Brett: What are we annihilating, these built up ideas of who we are?Joe: That's exactly it. The things that we think we are that we have to defend, you can tell them because you're defending them. It's like when someone's like, "You didn't do that very well," and you go, "er." Then you are defining yourself as somebody who's competent. You're not able to love the incompetent part of yourself. Authenticity is, "This is how I'm competent. This is how I'm incompetent." Being able to own that. Then in the owning of the lack of competence becomes more competence. It's this thing where, oftentimes, with executives, helplessness is this big thing where they feel it. Authentically, they feel helpless, but to allow themselves to feel helpless is incredibly difficult because the fear is, "If I allow myself to feel helpless, then I will become more helpless." But if they authentically own their helplessness, then they become less helpless. Brett: I think there's also a fear of being seen.Joe: Yes. That's right.Brett: Fearing that there will be consequences to that.Joe: Yes. That's how you know that part of yourself that needs, wants, to be destroyed. It's the part of yourself that doesn't want to be seen in that way, whatever that way is. "I don't want to be seen as blank, a hypocrite. I don't want to be seen as helpless. I don't want to be seen as greedy." Whatever it is that you don't want to be seen. "I don't want to be seen as weak." Brett: How would you separate improvement from growth? Even in this process of finding your authenticity, you can get better at it. What is that if not improvement? Don't we need some form of improvement, whether we're tracking our growth in some way to see where the trajectory is going?Joe: The question is, what would make you need it? What will happen if you don't have it? I think that's where the key is. Does growth happen? Absolutely. I always use this metaphor of an oak tree because when I look out my window, there is an oak tree. The oak tree grows. The growth happens. Does it need to? No. Is it looking to improve itself? No. It's nature. Another way to think of our authenticity is our nature. Our nature is to grow, our nature is to improve, our nature is to learn. If you take a little kid when they're babies, they can't even walk. One of the things that they smile most at is when a face comes at them sideways, not when a face comes at them straight up and down. Straight up and down face is the face that they see right before they feed. That doesn't make them smile as much as a sideways face, which means, "Oh, we're here to play." Play for a kid is learning and we have this natural desire to learn. It is authentic in us. We have a natural desire to grow. It's authentic in us. This just all happens very, very naturally, but it's when you think you have to improve to be good enough or when it's not just the nature of your life. You look at a six-year old kid, they're constantly wanting to learn and grow and it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop unless someone has kicked the love of learning out of us, it just keeps going. I don't think we have a need to do it. I think the thing is, that improvement is just happening naturally and that's authenticity. But if you are looking to improve yourself, then you are putting the brakes on the process and you're often going in the opposite direction of the river.Brett: How do we address that fear of becoming stagnant if we don't improve or just to be measuring? Measuring where we're at and then measuring that according to some scale of value that we've created.Joe: That's a great question. First of all, question your scale. That's the ultimate thing. It's easy to play a game when you have a measurement. It's hard to play a game when you don't. If your measurement for life is how much money I have in the bank, then you can play. If the measurement is how kind I am to people, then you can play. Then you have something to measure to. If you start really questioning those measurements, what do you mean by kind? Do you mean having the most positive impact? How do you measure positive impact? What's the difference between kind and nice? What if I was deeply truthful, but I wasn't kind? Why is kind more important than truth? These questions, as soon as you start really looking at the end, if you really deeply look at the end, then it gets really scary. That's when the stagnation fear really shows up and you're like, "Oh, all the progress that I thought I was making might not have been to the right end. Maybe there's no end." This fear sets in and it's almost like this fear, like it's going to be nihilistic or something like that. Even the idea that it's nihilistic is just another way of trying to create meaning out of a situation, but the nature of life doesn't really require meaning. There's no other part of life that requires meaning except for humans. Life wants to evolve, it wants to grow, it wants to improve. It seems, as it turns out, most humans, when they understand themselves more and more, there's a deeper and deeper compassion that shows up. There is a deeper, deeper amount of empowerment that shows up. What you find is, the things that you think are opposite, such as love and being empowered, they turn out to be the same thing. That the pinnacle of loving is empowerment, that the pinnacle of empowerment is loving. You can feel this. If you just stop for a second and close your eyes and you feel what it would be like to unconditionally love the world. You just let that settle in your body for a moment. Your love is so big and so great that it expands everywhere. It's not weak love, it's not love like I'm going to let people abuse me. It is the kind of love that a mother has, that's a great mother. They have boundaries. Then you let that go for a second and then feel what it's like to be completely empowered. Feel what it would be like to not have to worry at all about the future, to not have to prepare, to not have to plan, to just know that you are capable of handling any situation, to be like Superman on a mountaintop with no Kryptonite in the world, or Superwoman on the mountaintop with no Kryptonite in the world. Nothing can touch you. That feeling of empowerment. Then just feel the two next to each other. How are they different, if at all, this full empowerment, this full love? That's how it moves. The fear of stagnation, the fear of, "Oh, there's no meaning. There's no place to go and therefore I'll stop moving," it hits the human psyche for sure. It's definitely a part of this human psyche, at least in the modern world, but life doesn't require any of that stuff. Life can't stop moving. Try to not improve for a week. Take two weeks and do your best to not improve. Don't learn anything, don't grow, don't have any realizations, don't have any recognitions. Try that for two weeks. [laughs] I told someone to do that once and they were like, "Oh my God, so many recognitions, so much realization," because they stopped trying. We feel this all the time when we're on holiday. You have two weeks off and then you come back and you perform better. It's smoother. The whole thing works better. You make better calls because you weren't actively trying to improve for two weeks. It's just the nature of life. We, by our nature, learn and want to grow.Brett: Something that came up for me in the exercise that we just did, was that both in the unconditional loving the world state and the feeling fully-empowered state, there wasn't any fear. But the concern of stagnating is just fear. The fear of stagnating is the thing that I know for me, in my life, I have spent a lot of time in the fear of stagnation. That has constricted me in those times and led to-Joe: Stagnation. Brett: -stagnation.Joe: Exactly. That's how it works. We invite the things that we're scared of, that's our nature. Our nature is to invite. If we have a fear of something, we're inviting it in, because we want to. We want to learn and grow from that experience, we want to face that fear. The fear of stagnation invites stagnation, the fear of loss invites loss, the fear of abandonment invites abandonment.Brett: Let's try to bring this back into more concrete examples to make this real.Joe: Yes. I'll do a couple of them. One way to look at it, is kids and their learning. Kids, we were just talking about, their nature is to learn, they're curious, that's what they're genetically programmed to do. All humans are. Somehow or another, we can put them into a school system, tell them that they have to improve and get A's and then they stop wanting to learn. It actually happens to something like 47% of highly intelligent kids fail high school.Brett: Yes, I did really great in school up until I got an IQ test that told me I was smart and then I got my first B+. This was like fourth grade. Then it was just like, "Screw it."Joe: Yes, you stopped trying.Brett: To hell with this whole thing.Joe: There's a great psychological test on this, that basically if you tell a kid they're smart and then they try and they don't succeed, they'll stop trying because then they will prove that they're not smart. They'll just stop trying, so they can maintain the identity of smart. It's some fascinating work. That's an example of it. Now if you take kids who've been unschooled, I think it's called non-schooling or unschooling or something like that, where kids have been somewhat traumatized in their school situation, so their parents pull them out. They say, "You can't watch television. You can't do things that are destructive, but you can not do any work until you're ready."They often times don't do any work for three months or six months. Then all of a sudden, they're like, "I want to work." Those kids, when they want to learn math, they can learn basically fractions to calculus in something insane, like three months or five months or something like that. You can read the studies on it, because they want to learn, because it is their desire to learn in that direction and they want to do it and they will do it. It's like one is moving with the authenticity of the situation and one is telling the kids that they have to improve to be good enough. It's like a punishment and reward situation, so that's one aspect.Another way is a personal story from my life. I was in high school and I started smoking cigarettes. I was socially awkward at the time. I had issues. My upbringing had some turmoil in it. I was constantly telling myself I should improve by not smoking. I was constantly telling something that I needed to improve in. Then just by nature, I got drawn into hacky sacking. I just started to hacky sack all the time and I just really enjoyed hacky sacking. It just became this thing. Then about 10 years ago, I was with one of my daughters. My daughter's having some problems in school and this occupational therapist came to us. Then said like, "Your daughter has something called sensory processing disorder." It just basically means that the neurology isn't really melding the way it would with other kids and it makes you very sensitive to stimulus through your senses. I said, "How do we solve this thing?" She was like, "The way you solve it is through doing exercises across the midline that require coordination," et cetera, et cetera. Hacky sacking would have been a perfect example of that. If you look at me, before hacky sacking and after hacky sacking, I became socially more fluid. I became less sensitive.When you have sensory processing, it's a bit of like a nerd's disease, more likely to wear glasses, you're awkward and clumsy, you don't do as well socially, that kind of stuff. All that changed with me hacky sacking. My nature knew what I needed, knew what was needed next and did it without anybody telling me to, without anything happening. I watched this happen all the time with clients. I watched clients all the time. I know basically the dance steps of transformation. Everybody does them a little bit differently.Sometimes chapter three comes before chapter one or whatever, but I will watch people. If they're just following their intuition, man, they will just pick the next thing and I would be like, "Oh my God, they picked it perfectly again." This is what we do when we're just following our nature. Then smoking, for me, on the other hand lasted until I was in my 30's, as a perpetual habit into my 30's and that was all the ways I was supposed to improve. My nature, my authenticity improved me in ways that I didn't even know were happening.Brett: That's fascinating. I can think of a lot of experiences in my life that are a lot like that. One of them being joining a 18-month course where I felt like an intuition. It felt like a lot of money at the time. In retrospect, it was very little. It was just like, "Man, this seems like my kind of thing." I don't even know what it is and I didn't. When I got there, I was like, "Wait, this isn't really all that."Joe: Yet, it transformed your business too, which is the insane part. That's the other thing.Brett: Yes, but more than that in my life.Joe: Exactly. That's the insane part. That's a great example of it as well. It's when people come, because they often come to me, because they want to transform their business and we transform their life by them taking their natural steps and their business naturally transforms. If they would have just focused on their improvement, their business may or may not have transformed. In this way, the reason I use this methodology of working on personal stuff is because that always transforms the business. It has a hundred percent success rate as the person transforms their attitude towards, their business will transform and so will their business. Brett: Let's relate all this back into the concept you were talking earlier about self-realization and self-discovery.Joe: That's good. If you look back to my journey, let's hear it from my journey for a second. For the early part, I got really deeply into awakening, enlightenment in the non-dual sense of the word, not like woke culture. I'm talking about like the Christ consciousness or enlightenment, whatever religious tradition you have, has a word for it. At the beginning of that journey, I thought it was improvement that would get me there. Once I ate the right diet, or once I did the right exercises, or meditated hard enough or blah, blah, I would become enlightened. That was the improvement side of things. It's a slow, arduous, painful process. It luckily moved enough for me to realize that it wasn't about improvement. It was just about the recognition of who I am. When that happened, this question appeared to me, it was, "What am I?" I asked that question for 10 years, maybe 10 times a day, I would ask that question. That is really what transformed everything for me. Just being in that question for that long with that level of wonder transformed everything. It was funny. I was seeing a guy at the time. I was reading every non-dual teacher I could find. The only guy that I had met personally, who I thought, "Wow, this is a person I would want to learn from," was a guy named Adia Shantay. I got up and asked him a question once in front of this big auditorium of people. I said, I keep on asking this question, "What am I?" All I get is silence. Some dude in the back just started laughing and I was like, "That's not funny?" Adia smiled and I can't remember what else happened. I remember about three years later, I was at a meditation retreat when that question, what am I, faded away. The question never gets answered. It just expires and then it expires like a firecracker, but it expires. I was in the back and somebody got up in the front and asked the question, "What am I and nothing." I just started laughing hysterically, as if that nothing wasn't the answer and that's what it turns into. That recognition of self is something that just unfolds into nothingness. That nothingness is incredibly free and incredibly potent and capable.Brett: So, who are you now?Joe: [laughs] Yes, that question has expired. There's an exercise on this, just to go back and forth and ask somebody, "What are you?" Over and over again, "What are you? What are you? What are you?" See what happens as all your answers expire. But if I had to put, what am I, in words right now, which is an exciting thought process, I would say, "What am I? I am infinitely you. I am everything and nothing in the silent vastness that everything arises in and so are you."Brett: Then what happens once that question expires? It sounds like there could be a trap here in thinking that, "This question of who I am has expired. Now I don't have to prove myself and there's just nothing to do." What am I going to do to just stay in that cave and meditate until-- ?Joe: Yes, there's a thought that says that that might be the case. In fact, some people go through that for a while. I think it's because they're like those kids, who needed to be unschooled for a while, when they have that recognition of their essential self in that way, that there is this need to just sit there for a while and do nothing. It becomes a bit dissociative. Eventually, it's no longer satisfying. We just become more and more human. We like to play. We like to learn. We like to grow. It's our nature. It's our authenticity. Once we have been let out of school, we realize there's nothing that we have to do to improve ourselves, because our essence is unbelievably beautiful, miraculous, a dream that we never thought even possible coming true, that we couldn't even have thought of coming true. There's this natural desire to rest for a while, potentially. But eventually, you want to move, you want to dance, you want to play, you want to be alive. Then the journey turns into, "How do I be alive? How does my authenticity really want to be alive? How fully can I embrace this life?" There's a book called The Unbearable Lightness of Being, which I don't even know what it's about, but the title is amazing. That's what it is. Life becomes, "How do I allow myself to be more and more vulnerable to the unbearable lightness of being?"Brett: I love that. Both of us are the kind of person who would recommend a book or reference a book that we haven't read just because of its title.Joe: [chuckles] The title. I highly recommend that title. Brett: [chuckles] The title.It seems like there could be another trap here where we have somewhere where we want to go and we're like, "Maybe improving myself along the particular metrics that I have in mind right now, maybe that's not the best way to get there, because authenticity is the best way to get there. If I just get more authentic, then I'll become this thing that I want to be and get to where I want to go."Joe: Yes, that's right. That is a real trap. It's like, you'll see this happen oftentime in tools. You get this tool that you start working with and in the realm of self discovery and you get this tool, it works really well for a while and then it stops working. Some of the times, it stops working, because you're using the tool to change yourself instead of loving yourself, so it stops working. Some of the time, that tool stops working, because you've co-opted it into improvement, instead of recognition. It's really the same thing, to improve yourself isn't to love yourself as you are. To find the authentic expression of you, is to love yourself as you are and to know that that authentic expression will naturally change you, just like the natural flow of a river changes the river.Brett: That could mean your goals will shift.Joe: Will shift. Yes. I've seen a lot of things not change as people go through this journey and I've seen a lot of things change, but I've never seen the goals of a person not change through the journey. That always changes. What's often interesting is, the goals that they used to have, just get met naturally without any effort or thought process, because they become just a step in what's necessary for them to evolve into their authenticity. I had a goal for years of having enough money to blah, blah blah. Somewhere along the line, I just didn't care at all about money. Then money just started rushing in. That's a really typical story. Not always, but it's a very, very typical story.Brett: We've talked about how wanting something is good. We just had a whole episode on what you want, how wanting itself is critical. Then we're just talking now about how wanting something from ourselves or wanting something in our future can lead towards this constant improvement process and away from our authenticity. What do you have to say about that?Joe: Wanting is critical, what you want is really inconsequential. What you want is directionally correct, but it is not the end all be all of anything. That wanting is what pulls you. That wanting is the natural pull of evolution, of authenticity. That's what it is. What you want is a strategy to get there. There's 10 or 20 strategies. What you want is inconsequential and there's no reason to attach to it. It is to follow your wanting and then to watch how you're wanting changes and watch how what you want changes. Brett: What happens if you're going through this process and the things that you want just change so rapidly that your life starts to feel disconnected or disorienting?Joe: You're very fortunate. You might feel disturbed depending on your personality type. Some folks will find that to be a beautiful free ride and some people will feel like-- there's that quote, that sometimes falling feels like flying for a little while. People will be like, "I'm flying, which means I must be falling." In actuality, as they say, the bad news is you're falling, the good news is there's no bottom. That is part of it. Rumi called it, a Sufi poet, he calls it a holy confusion, that not knowing. It's called the mystery for a reason.It's absolutely what happens and the goals shift and then the goals disappear. Then there's like no goals for a while. Then after there's no goals for a while, there's very specific goals and then there's just this movement that's like-- how did I describe it? The goal is to live principled, because you know, that living principled will make you happier than any goal that you could ever achieve. Brett: That's something that's entirely within your power too?Joe: Yes, it becomes choice-less at a point, it becomes outside of your power. At some point it's like, "I just can't not live with principled, because it's too damn painful."Brett: Give us another concrete example of how that works, when what you want is inconsequential, but the wanting itself isn't. Joe: I can give you a funny one. I'm sitting with my godson and his father and he has been a friend since high school. This story is going to be one of those stories that lets you know, maybe you don't want to have me as a friend. We're sitting there and we're having lunch together at this restaurant and my friend tells me about how his son stole $50 from him, bought a vape pen and was vaping in the classroom. I'm just listening. Son is in those teenage years. All of a sudden, five minutes later he's like, “The problem with my son is that he just doesn't have ambition. He just doesn't want to do anything.” I was like, “What? Of course he wants to do something. Do you know how hard it is to do what he did? Stealing $50, he planned that stuff out. That's ambition. Then he went and did it. Then with the knowledge that he could have gotten caught, which is totally ambition and then he figured out a way to go buy the vape pen. Then he had so much ambition to do it that he did it in a classroom and got caught. That is some CEO level ambition. What are you talking about?” [laughs]At this point my friend is just looking at me like, "Shut up, Joe, shut up." His son is looking at me like a smile, "Oh, wow, I didn't know. I should have visited my godfather more often." I was just saying, “There's clearly ambition, it's just that you want him to be ambitious in one way, but he's ambitious in another. Let's look at how he's ambitious.”  I started talking to him. "What is it that you want to do?" He wants to play this particular sport that requires some money and you got to get these guns or whatever. It's like a laser tag type thing, the next version of a laser tag. He's telling me about it and I'm getting into it with him.Then I'm like, “How are you going to afford this?” He's like, “Maybe I have to get a job.” “What kind of job do you want to get? This kind? You don't make a lot of money.” Then, “How are you going to get there?” We just went through this whole thing and he was clearly eager to do all this stuff, so that he could do the thing that he wanted to do. I was like, “How can your dad help?” He is telling his father what his father can do, to help him be ambitious and get things done. That's the difference between,  “You should improve”, to  “What is the authentic expression?”The thing is, that we do that internally as well as externally, meaning we're usually like the father in that story, rather than the godfather in that story to ourselves. We're telling ourselves what we have to improve, what we need to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, instead of just paying attention to what the natural thing is. If we follow that thread far enough down, it has far better results and moves much quicker.Brett: It's fascinating. By that measure, I was extremely ambitious and barely passing any of my high school.Joe: Exactly. It's because it couldn't hook on to your authentic-- most schooling doesn't hook on to a child's authentic desire to learn.Brett: In my case, that presented a lot of different tracks and opportunities all of which just didn't quite hook.Joe: It's really hard to hook, when you're grading people and say you need to improve. That's not hook-worthy.Brett: It's like a culture of constant improvement.Joe: We don't listen to songs that tell us that we need to improve. "Wow, a triple platinum song by Jay-Z called, “Boy, You Better Workout More." It just doesn't happen.Brett: Let's talk a little bit more about how this works in companies and in a more general sense, in cultures of self-improvement or just not even self improvement, just cultures of everybody needs to improve to get better.Joe: The constant improvement culture. It's not assuming that people want to improve by nature is what happens here. A great example of this is in that book, Reinventing Organizations, there's a nursing company in there called Herzog. Basically what happened, it was in Holland, what happened is, there's these community nurses and they got privatized. It just became all about efficiency. It all became: improve, improve, improve, improve and it was like, "This is how long it should take you to get there, this is how long it should take you to administer the shot. This is how long it should take you to get back. That's how much time you have. That's how much payment you're going to get."Everybody was going for the improved nursing efficiency. This company came along and it did a lot of really cool things. One of the things it did is it said, "You know what, our job isn't to be as quick as possible. Our job is not to improve our process in that way. It's to make it, so that we help people become self-reliant." Through figuring out how to get to that home and make the person self-reliant, instead of administering the shot, they became 60% more efficient than their competition or something like that. Maybe it's 40%. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but it was a tremendous amount more efficient.One had that natural hook, because we naturally want to help people. That is part of our nature. All mammals, that are community-based mammals, have altruism as part of us. They hooked on to that natural thing and then that led to natural improvement, but they weren't trying to improve in some unnatural way. The interesting thing is, as soon as I say, it's our nature to be altruistic, somebody will say something like, "It's our nature to be self-interested." I say, "I agree, it is." It's our nature to be altruistic and it's our nature to be self-interested and it's our nature to want to be rewarded and it's our nature to want our team to win and it's in our nature for us to win. Companies that are really becoming the most efficient companies, are hooking on to all of that. If you think about that nursing company, their team won and they had individual reward for the performance. As it turned out, people got to decide their own reward. Also, they got to help. They're hooking onto all of these natural things in us.If you look at the great products of our day and the great nonprofits of our day, they hook into a natural, authentic desire in people. Sometimes it's drug-like, like Facebook or coffee and sometimes it is not drug-like. Sometimes it is just our nature to want to communicate. That's what it means. Not only does your product-- but your culture needs to--if you want to be highly efficient, it needs to hook into that nature of people, our authenticity.Brett: Another one of our ESF group was recently telling me about a company that they're applying for. It's a debt collections agency that operates on transparency. Instead of trying to be as efficient as they can, milking the most money from people as possible and buying the debt for the cheapest possible whatever, they're optimizing for really being in connection with people. They purchase debt and then they're transparent. They're like, "Hey, we bought your debt for this much. We have this much of it. We expect to get a certain percentage of it paid back from various places. What can we do to get this paid off?" With that transparency and working closer to their customers, their debtors, they actually get across this sense of actually caring. They're able to come up with much more creative solutions which actually results in-- this is a new company, but it seems like it's resulting in getting much better results for them. Also they're getting just swathes of testimonials from customers that are like, "Wow, I wish all of my debt had been bought by this company. This is amazing. They're actually people and they talk to me like a human."Joe: You can see this in sales processes are more effective, when there's a real relationship, real connection going on and that authenticity is there. People think they have to compartmentalize themselves to do business and that compartmentalization, that inauthenticity, it absolutely makes you less efficient. It might make things easier to do in the short-term, but absolutely harder to do in the long-term. It makes you less efficient, because you're basically asking anybody you interact with to compartmentalize themselves that same way. A debt collector compartmentalizes their heart and they go in hard. Then their customer compartmentalizes their heart and they respond hard, or they respond like a victim or whatever it is, but they're going to match that more on average.Brett: If we focus on finding the authentic movement, then--Joe: How do I collect debt in a way that feels good in my system? How do I nurse in a way that feels good in my system? How do I produce a social media app that feels good in my system? All of those will be a more efficient product.Brett: Then with that continual asking, "What am I?" Like, "What am I? Am I an efficient debt collector or am I a human?"Joe: That's right. "If I am them and they are me, then how do I want to behave here? If I feel my natural authenticity and my desire to learn and my desire to be of service to people, how do I collect debt in a way that's of service to people?" It feels horrible to not pay your debt. To help people feel that they are standing on their own two feet and have achieved paying off debt, that can be a real deep service for humans.Brett: I wonder how many other industries can be rethought that way.Joe: Every one of them. It's endless. It's just like there's always more money to be made. There's always a way to become more authentic and each one is an efficiency.Brett: It sounds like there's a lot of faith in this process because with each layer of authenticity you find, you really have to let go of what you valued or what you thought was important, entirely to find what's beneath it.Joe: Yes, that's true. It feels like faith, until you get used to reading the river in some way. It's the same faith that maybe a basketball player would have that's going into a game. It's like you can't plan out the whole game. You can't plan out everything. You're basically choosing,  “I am going to plan out my entire basketball game”, or “I'm going to learn how to read a river” and “Learn how to read the field, learn how to read my opponents and so that I am competent in every situation where I'm in that basketball game.” Then you start having faith in your capacity to handle situations.You become excited, but you can't handle them, because it means you're getting to learn something and it makes you more capable next time. It's the same thing. It's like if you've learned to read a river to go down that river and get to the mouth of the river, it's not an act of faith anymore. It's just what you do. You're watching other people build canals and that makes them feel secure. Like, "I will just take a canal the whole way, but I have to build the whole canal." It's a lot more effort. It's very much like that. Once you start realizing, that your authenticity naturally brings you to the next level over and over again and that improving yourself is like building a canal. It's like this idea of safety, that it takes a tremendous amount of effort and is really not that safe, because lots of people die building canals. That's how it works. It feels constantly, like you're taking faith, that you're taking the risk. Then at some point, you're like, "Oh, no. It's more risky to do the other thing. It's more risky to be 60 years old and all my dreams have come true and I'm miserable," which is where that typically leads.Brett: I think we often over-index on the cost, the perceived cost of stopping doing things the way that we're doing them, but forget about the opportunity cost of continuing to do the same thing.Joe: What's interesting is, that's also part of our nature. It's also part of our nature to stay with something that feels safe.Brett: Predictable is safe.Joe: Yes, that's right. That's exactly right. Luckily, as authenticity matures us, as we evolve being authentic, we become more and more sensitive. That stuff becomes more and more painful, where we're naturally kicked out of those cycles because we just can't handle them anymore, because they're just too painful.Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment podcast.  If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe. We would love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions and comments. To reach us, join our newsletter, learn more about VIEW, or to take a course, visit: artofaccomplishment.comResources:Frederic Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, https://www.reinventingorganizations.com/

The problem with getting good at managing your life is that you end up with a life that has to be managed. What would happen if you found out that focusing on enjoying your life could make you more productive and happier than managing your life? We know most of the greats enjoyed what they did. What if enjoyment is an essential part of what makes us great?"Imagine that you are on a boat and you are going down a river. Management is when you are fighting against the river, but when you are in that effortless flow of the river, there's an enjoyment to it. What you have to do is,  you have to be listening to that river deeply. You have to be listening to that impulse."We're told all of our lives that if we want results, we have to manage ourselves and the world around us in order to get what we want. What if that isn't true? What if intention and determination are critical, but managing life gets in the way? What if the way to get the life we want is to focus on enjoying our life, not only by doing what we enjoy, but also by learning to enjoy whatever is happening? This is what Joe and I will be getting into today.Brett: Joe, what makes this an important topic for you?Joe: There's a personal story behind it. When I was really young in my career, I did international stock lending for a while. I was still sorting through so much of my personal issues at the time. I decided in my head what I really wanted was to have a creative career. That was something that I decided, which was far out there that I had to attain, instead of realizing that it was really available, if I had the right perspective. I quit this great job as far as money goes and as far as career path goes. I went for seven years trying to have a creative career. There was this place where I had basically reached it. I was working on this TV show and I had written something. I was being brought in to train, to direct the show. I did this two-week stint on the show and I realized it was the same thing that international stock lending was, meaning that everything that I had run away from in international stock lending, I was running to in this creative career. One person had all the power. Everybody was working long, hard hours. They were unhappy. I remember the actor of the TV show saying to me, "Every time I come into work, it's like having a piece of my soul ripped out." Everybody wanted to be doing something else and not the thing that they were doing. They had some dream of the next level of their career. Most people weren't leaving because of the money. I said, wow, that's exactly the thing I was running away from and running to. I had spent all these years of my life trying to manage this outcome. I had finally achieved it, but I didn't have any idea that it wasn't the thing that I wanted. At that moment, the revelation came on me and I said, "Wow, you know what I'm going to do instead, what I'm going to do is I'm just going to say yes to whatever shows up. If I enjoy it, I'll keep on saying yes. If I don't enjoy it, I'll say no."Then all of a sudden, there was more and more stuff to say yes to and so I got to keep on picking the things that were more enjoyable. As that happened, everything took off; my money, my happiness, my career, everything in ways that I couldn't even have expected. It was like I had surrendered and I allowed that surrender into my own enjoyment to lead my life. All of a sudden, I was surrounded by a life that I enjoyed.I neither enjoyed stock lending, nor did I enjoy trying to become an artist nor did I enjoy being the artist, but I ended up enjoying my life, not by managing it, but by focusing on the enjoyment. That's why it's important to me. I think why it's important to talk about in general is, because it's the biggest misconception that a lot of people have is they think that if they're going to manage their life, they're going to end up with a life that makes them happy. In actuality, if you learn to manage your life, you end up with a life that you need to manage and that is not happiness.Brett: What does it mean to manage your life in the way that you're describing?Joe: One way to think about it is, intellectually, you're trying to assure an outcome. When I was directing films, one of the things that I really realized in that process was that, if I had a very specific outcome in mind of how the actors were going to do their thing, it was horrible. The result was horrible. Everything was horrible. The process was horrible. If instead, I gave the actor's direction and then I just waited until it felt right and I just allowed that impulse to carry us and go, "That's it. That's going to work," without the idea specifically of how it was going to be, the results were far better.That's one way to think about the difference between management and non-management is that you're not holding really specific future outcomes. You're holding the intention of the scene is going to be great and it's going to be emotional. You're holding the intention. The actors are holding the intention of whatever it is for them, getting the person to say they love them and getting out of the room, whatever their intentions are. Everybody's holding their intentions, but the outcome is something that you are recognizing when it's right. It's not something that you're being specific and controlling about.There's this implicit feeling of trying that happens when you are doing management and trying is very different than doing. Doing is just the action. It's like in mental waves, you think about doing as alpha. There's this flow state that happens and it's just everything's happening and there's not a lot of tension in it. Managing life is when you feel like you have to bring tension into the process to get it your way.Another great example of this, I think, that's really palpable is I see this with clients all the time is they're thinking about a big conversation they have to have. Maybe it's with their husband, maybe it's with their boss, maybe it's with a good friend. They're trying to figure out how they're going to say it in such a way that they're going to get the outcome that they want, instead of thinking about, what's the authentic way for them to say, what's their deepest truth that they're trying to share and let the chips fall where they may. If they're in the first, then they're in management and if they're in the second, then they are not in management.Brett: I think that film example is actually a great one, because in filmmaking, in production, you often have an art department that's trying to make exactly the igloo that's in the treatment for the director, when maybe they could make any number of igloos that fit the theme and that would work great in the scene. Many other parts of the scene are likely to drift through the course of production from the treatment. There are ways to flow with that and there are ways to try to manage every single detail, which you just ended up having the entire crew fighting reality for a while.Joe: It's something that I've realized. When I'm running businesses and I want something a specific way where it's creative or someone's doing something creative, like copy editing or some visual aspect or building slides, I've realized that if I just give them three adjectives, just I want it to be reliable, grounded and empowering, then the results are far better than if I start thinking I know how to design something. I'm like, well, it should be a little more blue and turn this a little bit this way. That broad stroke thing. We know that people in general, in the management of people, respond a lot better and are a lot more motivated, if they feel like they have autonomy. That doesn't mean that they don't want direction. It means they don't want management in the way that I'm talking about management.Brett: Right. I see that a lot in design as well. Micromanagement of design is a great way to get terrible work from a good artist.Joe: Exactly. That's everything. There's a way of looking at every person's role as an artistry. You're going to get bad work out of everybody's artistry in that. The other way to look at it is to imagine that you're on a boat and you are going down a river. Management is when you're fighting against the river. When you are in the flow of the river, even if your paddle's in the water every once in a while and you're doing that stuff, but when you're in that effortless flow of the river, there's an enjoyment to it and there's a non-management. When you're fighting against the river, then you're in the management.For that to happen, you have to not be managing a river, which obviously never really works. What you have to do is, you have to be listening to that river deeply. You have to be listening to that impulse. When people are in management mode, they usually are not listening to their internal impulse, or the impulse of the people around them.Brett: It sounds like a distinction to be made here is, management is to try to fight reality to conform to your results and enjoyment in this concept is more combining your intention with the randomness of reality and seeing what happens.Joe: Yes, that's right. I work with a lot of executives and this is one of the hardest things for the executives to really catch on to because they have all made a living in being able to have this determination and drive to get the results. Many of them have used management to get there. That determination and drive, that utter unacceptance of a result that's different than the one that you want, is really critical, but you need to be very general about the result that you want. It can be general like I want a company that's super successful. I want a product that sells better than all the competition. That's great.When you start managing that process and want it to be this specific way. You want it to have this kind of sales technique. You want to have, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then that's when it goes south. You have to keep all that determination. You have to keep all that fortitude. You have to keep all that utter unacceptance of a reality that you don't envision and there is also reading the river and letting the river flow and paying attention to that river and following it to get there.Brett: A lot of this seems to happen by buying in the moment like, "Oh, no, this has to happen because if this doesn't happen this particular way, then the entire plan is ruined." Without this 30,000-foot view that we're discussing right now, how would you know in the moment, if you are managing rather than following your intention? What are some ways to mindfully recognize this in the process?Joe: One of the things that I see managers do, since we're on management, specifically, one of the things that I see managers do is they don't ask this question. They don't say, "What speaks against that?" Let's say I come into a room and I say I want to sell in question-based selling and then we're talking to the sales team. I'm like, "Let's do question-based selling." I might try to convince everybody and push everybody into it, motivate everybody and give a good speech. Everybody's like, "Yes, let's do question-based selling."What is usually far more effective and that tells you that you're not in the management of that experience is to say, "Let me give a good case for question-based selling. Here it is. Now, tell me what speaks against it?" People will tell you, "Here are the things that we don't think will work about it." That tells you the things that you have to address. Then you address them and then you're in the flow of the situation. Then you're like, "Okay." Most likely, you're going to get a much better solution because the things that they want you to address are important to address. If you can't address them, then you don't have real buy-in. Without real buy-in, they're not going to do as good of work. Without real buy-in, it probably means that there's a better solution out there. That's one of the ways to know is, if you're trying to push people into a result instead of being eager to find out what speaks against it. When you're listening to what speaks against it, your results are going to be far better. That's one way to know it.Brett: There's a delicious irony there, the idea of trying to sell a sales team on a sales process about question-based selling without asking any questions.Joe: I hadn't thought of that in my example. Yes, exactly. That would be incredibly ironic. Yes, exactly. It's why question-based selling works is, because you're not managing the customer. You're actually empathizing with, following the customer. You're following the river instead of trying to manage the river. That's one way to know it.Other ways are, when you're more listening to the outcome than you are to the impulse. Right now if you listen for the impulse, as to what to say next, that's a very particular somatic experience. You can still have determination in this experience. You can still be feeling like, "Oh, we're going to get to a resolution and I can be listening," and waiting for the impulse to speak. That's all a very possible situation. But when I want your next sentence to be something or I want my sentence to do something to you, to get to a particular place, then I'm in management.Brett: That adds another filter in the process of what you're going to say when you have to think about how you think it's going to be received.Joe: Exactly.Brett: Which then builds in all of your projections into the conversation.Joe: Yes, totally. It also builds a tremendous amount of inefficiency. When you're managing stuff, what you are always doing is not looking at the root cause. As an example, which is a more enjoyable car to own? Is it an MG or is it a Lexus? Most people who don't like fixing cars would say a Lexus is a far more enjoyable car to own than an MG, because you know with an MG, every 500 miles, you have the thing up on blocks and you have to do something.When you are in management, you're just constantly trying to figure out how to fix the MG with the least amount of money and as quickly as possible. When you're in enjoyment, you're looking at the core issue. If you are looking at the core issue, everything becomes far more efficient. You're not trying to patch the boat as it's sinking. Instead, you're thinking, "What's the right boat to build?"Brett: Getting out of context to the bigger question.Joe: Exactly.Brett: We have learned to manage things for a reason, many would propose. Don't you have to manage some level of things for anything to get done? If so, where is that line?Joe: It's not where you think it is, that's for sure. What I mean to say is, if you ask the people at Hyatt, "Hey, man, do you have to manage your properties?" They'd say, absolutely. If you ask the people at Airbnb, "Do you have to manage your properties?" They'd say no. If you ask SK Telecom and all those telecom companies that tried apps before Apple, "Did you have to manage your apps, the building of the apps?" They'd say, "Yes, absolutely. We need to manage it," but Apple said, "No, we don't. As long as they hit a minimum requirement, they can be on the App Store." If you think about all your great employees, how much management do they actually require? It's the people that you're managing that are not usually your great employees.Brett: Maybe because you're managing them so hard.Joe: Indeed. Do you have to manage and what's the boundary? The answer is that the better your system is in place, the better you have the mechanism working, the less management is necessary. Every place that you are managing is basically a way to look at an inefficiency that you have. If you build a really good machine, say like an iPhone, you don't have to manage the iPhone. You and I have never said the word, "Well, I really had to manage my iPhone yesterday." It's because it works.Brett: We might have to manage our iPhone use and that arises from inefficiencies in our attention.Joe: Exactly. That's right. Even that, that's the self-management part, which is you can say, "I need to manage my cell phone use," or you can turn off all your notifications. You can turn your phone into black and white and don't allow for color usage on your phone. Or you can turn on the sleep mode. There's all things that you can do, so that you don't actually even have to manage your cell phone usage, so that it's all done systematically.Brett: Or I can find out what it is in my emotions that makes me want to go to Instagram and start scrolling.Joe: Yes, exactly. All different levels of it. Even managing your own state is ineffective. In fact, that's the thing about meditation generally, is that most people call sitting still and trying to manage your state of mind meditation. It's not meditation. It's torture. Enjoyment of sitting there is meditation. Yes, management is going to happen. This isn't something that you get upset about. Is it something that you're going to never have to do in your whole life? No, but every time you're managing something, you can absolutely see it as a chance to become more efficient and the way that you find that efficiency is through enjoyment.Brett: That's great.Joe: The other thing that happens here, oftentimes when people are talking about they're like, "Yes, but I got to manage my company. I got to tell people what to do." Then you look at other companies. There's this company called Valve. There's this Valve Handbook, which is just amazing. The way they manage what they do, is they figured out how to choose really good people. They have a whole thing about that and then when you get to Valve, you have a desk that's on wheels. Where you push your desk is what projects they do. There's not even somebody saying, "Okay, these are the projects we're going to do. Here's our big initiatives." They literally just have people roll their desks to what they want to do and those are the initiatives that get done in the company.If you look at our entire economy. We have four tools to manage our economy and we don't do it very well. There's just interest rates and how constraining the laws are for businesses, et cetera. Our whole economy doesn't have a manager and yet, we're the biggest economy in the world. So far, we have been the most resilient economy in the world. Is there really a need for management? Is there really a need for that level of centralization? There may be in certain circumstances but guaranteed there is a more efficient system out there and when somebody finds it, they will be the winner of that business and their life will be more enjoyable.Brett: It sounds like, if somebody wants to start experimenting with loosening management and finding more enjoyment, there seems to be a requirement for a certain amount of slack in the system. If you're running a company that's just barely making payroll month after month after month and you imagine that if you just stopped managing people in the way that you're currently managing them and you even have one or two hiccups then everything is all over. Or imagine in a life, where somebody's like, "Well, I'm working three jobs right now to make ends meet. If I just started focusing on enjoyments, then if I left one of those jobs, then I'm not going to feed my family." How would you respond to there being a feeling for a need for slack or people's fear that they don't have enough slack to try an experiment in this way?Joe: I would say that they're looking at enjoyment in a backwards way, meaning there's one way to look at enjoyment, which is, "Here are the things that my head says that I will enjoy when I do it, like me having a creative career." Your head doesn't really know what you're going to enjoy. You can try to organize a life where everything you do is enjoyable, meaning that you've chosen things to do that you enjoy, that you think you enjoy, or you can learn to enjoy the things that you're doing.I'll give you an example of this. When I was 27 years old or something like that, I did this experiment where I said, "I'm not going to do anything I don't enjoy for a month and see how that goes." After the first three or four days, it was everything that I enjoyed. I took a nap when I wanted to take a nap, I did everything I wanted, then the trash started smelling. I was like, "Well, I'm not enjoying living with no trash and I don't enjoy taking out the trash. What the hell am I going to do?" I learned, "Wow, how do I take out the trash and enjoy myself? How do I write emails and enjoy myself? How do I pay bills and enjoy myself." I don't enjoy not having bills unpaid or having a bad credit rating. That's not enjoyable for me.The only way to really get to a life that you enjoy is to not avoid the intensity. It's not to run away from difficult things. It's finding the pleasure in whatever you're doing. It has to be a major part of the equation. If you have three jobs and you need the three jobs to get by, then learn to enjoy the jobs that you have. Learn how to do them with more enjoyment and watch, when you do your job with more enjoyment, your job changes pretty darn quickly. People want to be around people who are enjoying themselves. People want to work with people who are enjoying themselves and people will be attracted to you, people will give you more opportunities.It's the same thing in your business. Maybe you don't have the ability to reinvent your organization, where the management is so low that people are deciding their own payroll and people on the bottom line of a company like the manufacturing line of a company are deciding what $3 million pieces of equipment to buy. Those are companies that are run like that and maybe you can't get there tomorrow. Maybe it's not even smart for your company to get there, but the question that you can always ask is, "What's making this so unenjoyable and how do I enjoy this process?" That is going to build efficiency in your company.The thing is that there's somebody in mind right now when they're listening to me and they're saying, "This isn't necessary. I can be successful without enjoying myself." That is so true. You can be successful financially. You can accumulate a lot of power. You can have a good looking mate on your side. You can have all the toys that you want and not enjoy yourself. That's absolutely 100% the case. They're not actually being correlated-- that success and enjoyment. There's a lot of people that are successful who don't enjoy themselves and there's a lot of people that are successful who do enjoy themselves. What I am saying is that you can have both. If you are having both, you're finding efficiencies.Brett: Yes. Let's define enjoyment then. A lot of people think of enjoyment as there is a sense of control. People have the freedom to do what they want to do, but a lot of what it seems like you're describing with enjoyment is that it doesn't really require freedom. For example, you could be working three jobs and be micromanaged and potentially find enjoyment in what you're doing. Can you talk a little bit more about that?Joe: Yes, absolutely I can. There are people in jail right now enjoying themselves. There are people on this earth right now, who are sitting in three by three cells who haven't lied down in two years, two months and a day who are doing it to learn how to enjoy themselves. That's part of the Lama tradition. The enjoyment is available to you right now. Right now I can say to everybody who's listening to this, "Hey, enjoy yourself just a little bit more right now. Just a little. Just allow a little more enjoyment in this moment."Brett: My entire body just relaxed a little bit.Joe: Right. Exactly. What did that take? Your conditions did not change at all. You're in the same space. You have the same bank account. You have the same girlfriend. Nothing has changed and you just enjoyed yourself a little bit more. Enjoyment doesn't cost anything. Enjoyment is just a perspective. It's just an allowing. It's just a receiving. It's visceral. It requires us to be a little more present. That's it. It requires us, maybe to be a little bit more in our body, but it's not something that is ever inaccessible to us.Brett: It sounds like this is definitely an internal thing as well. We've been talking a lot about enjoyment in our environment, in our circumstances, in our businesses, in our organizations. How does this management and enjoyment dynamic work internally in the way that we just experienced?Joe: Yes, it's a bit of a mystery exactly how it works. What I've seen is that, internally, there is a capacity to feel pleasure that is almost like a muscle. It's a nervous system thing, but it feels like it's a muscle in the fact that you can build it. You can build the capacity for this feeling of enjoyment in your life and this feeling of pleasure. There's a certain amount of overwhelm that happens when you feel too much of it. Your level of too much is going to be different than my level of too much, which is going to be different than person C's level of too much.Brett: What makes it be too much?Joe: I'll tell you what I think it is. If you put your hands together, put your hands like your thumb and your fingers all together and then intertwine your fingers. Now, intertwine your fingers in the opposite way so that your hand looks the same but your pinkies have switched positions. You'll notice that one of those ways is comfortable. The first way is comfortable and the second way is uncomfortable.Brett: Yes, interesting.Joe: Pleasure being too much is very much like that. It's just what you're used to. It's very much a level of comfort based on what you're used to and based on what your nervous system feels safe handling. If your nervous system had to be on high alert to feel safe as a child, then there's a low level of pleasure that you are going to allow yourself an enjoyment that you're going to allow yourself because you're going to feel unsafe. If you were deeply nurtured as a child, then that level of pleasure and enjoyment is going to be much higher. We can train our nervous systems to start accepting higher and higher levels of pleasure.Brett: It seems like there's an inverse relationship between enjoyment and letting our guard down. The more enjoyment we're experiencing, the more down our guard must be and there's some baseline level of guard that we must viscerally believe is required to be safe. Does that make sense?Joe: Yes, that's right. That's exactly right. What you're basically saying there is, that you have to believe that a certain level of defense is necessary, to be able to protect yourself, which also means that you don't believe that you can respond in the moment, that you have to be prepared. That is one of the main things that creates us not listening to our impulse, not watching the river, is that idea that we have to be prepared so we're not in the present moment handling the thing that's in front of us. Or that we're in the future in a way that's very hard. We're not in the future in a soft way.You can be in the future and be like, "I'm dreaming the future and have intentions in the future," but most of the time when we're in the future, we're trying to control the future. That's like the perfect example of management. We do this internally all the time. We're literally having conversations in our heads to control the future. Have you noticed that the conversations that you've had about how you want the future to go, they have never worked out specifically as you planned? You think about how you're going to have the conversation 10 different ways and it never happens that way. It always happens differently.We're thinking about our thoughts. We're trying to manage our future. It never works out and it's definitely not enjoyable. That's called spin. We're just spinning. Now, I imagine that you're in that conversation with that person and you're just listening to the impulse and focused on enjoying the conversation.Brett: Which results in a lot more listening to what they're saying as well.Joe: Exactly and it helps them feel connected with you. You feel more heard and they feel more heard. The conversation goes better. It's the same thing internally. Internally, we're trying to manage ourselves all the time. "Hey, lose weight. Hey, get more in shape. Hey, you should listen more. Hey, you should stop managing." Whatever it is that your brain is constantly telling yourself you should manage and it doesn't work very well. It's not the most efficient way by any stretch.We do this in meditation and we do this in yoga. Now, what is it like to meditate and focus on enjoyment? Not just doing something that you enjoy, but also enjoying what you're doing. Now, what is it like to do yoga and focus on enjoyment or crossfit for that matter? What's the internal thing that you do when you're managing and how effective is it compared to enjoyment?The amazing thing is, I could say to somebody, "Hey, look, whatever internal exercise you do, just focus on enjoyment. Just enjoy that exercise. That's your number one thing to do." Most people won't, because they're like, "Enjoyment is scary," subconsciously, but if they do it, what they notice is that they do it a lot more, because it's more enjoyable. If meditation isn't enjoyable, you don't keep on meditating. If working out isn't enjoyable, you don't keep on working out.The enjoyment propels the practice. Telling yourself you should do it and you really have to do it and you have to do better and stronger da-da-da, it's not very enjoyable and so you stop doing it. The other thing that's important here to say is, that the reason you think you have to manage yourself is, because you don't see that you're inherently good. You don't believe in your inherent goodness. You believe that you're like some lazy gluttonous asshole, if you were left to your own devices and that you need to be whipped into shape.If you believe that about yourself, then that's who you're going to end up being. If you believe that you are inherently good, you want what's best for you and for the people around you and that you want to have an active, enjoyable, fulfilling life, then why on earth would you need to be managed for? If you want that stuff, what would make it, that you wouldn't just naturally do it?Brett: It seems that that would also show up in the way that you manage or treat your employees or expect to be managed or treated by a boss.Joe: Yes. Any boss you've ever had who is a micromanager, I guarantee you they micromanage themselves horribly. If they're not depressed now, they will be. If they don't have major anger issues, they will have. Any boss that you have, that is constantly in fear of how you are behaving is constantly in fear about how they're behaving. It's just the nature of it. The self-development-work works so well in companies, is because you are projecting your internal relationship externally.Brett: Yes, let's dig into more about how this management enjoyment dynamic shows up in relationships.Joe: Yes. Here's the story that I think freaks everybody out and it's very apropos. I have two girls. I don't think there's any time I punish them and I don't think my wife ever punished them. We got angry from time to time. That absolutely happened. I'm sure they felt ashamed from time to time, though we did our very best not to ever shame them. The thought process then is that, well, your kids must be spoiled and that your kids must not do what they're told and your kids must not behave well.If you get into my home, what you find out is that my kids are amazing kids. It's so palpable that when people come they're like, "Wow, you have amazing children. How did you raise them?" That question gets asked all the time. Even after they see our kids, most people are dumbfounded that that's how we did it. We trusted that they wanted to be connected with us. We trusted that they wanted to be connected with themselves. When they were connected with themselves, they would show up thoughtfully and lovingly and with care. That's what they did. That's how it worked out. We never said to them, "Hey you're a bad person. Hey, you're naughty and we need to control that naughtiness." That never happened. They never believed that they were naughty. They just saw that we saw them as good and they ended up as good.Obviously, some adults, that would take years and years and years of treating them that way for them to act that way. I'm not suggesting that you go around and go into a maximum security prison and treat all of them like they're amazing people who are inherently good, because unless they believe that, there's going to be friction to get to that point. In general, that's the way that you walk around in a relationship. The way you walk around is that you find out what's motivating them, find out what's moving them, find out what they want to do and follow that flow instead of saying, "This is what I want you to do and do that."You see this happen all the time. One person convinces another person to join a project. If I'm hiring somebody for a project, I basically say, "What's your dream job?" If they're not really close to the job that I have in mind, it's not a good fit. I'd rather have somebody whose dream job it is, to do the job that I have in mind than to convince someone to do something because, eventually, I'm going to have to manage them. It's something that I learned in making investments. What I realized was that the amount of management that it took to make a deal happen was the same amount of management that I would have to consistently provide to make the deal work. Then that's really inefficient investing. I've learned that if I had to manage to get a deal done, I just would not do the deal. It was the deals that happened with a certain amount of flow and ease that then continued with that same amount of flow and ease. Obviously, there's ups and downs with everything, but generally, that flow and ease was far more likely.Brett: There's also that disempowering factor of managing. If you invest in somebody's company and then you manage them, you're really saying that you don't trust their idea, unless it's done the way you think it should be done.Joe: Yes, that's right.Brett: That brings me back to that prison example, as well. You could go to a maximum-security prison and yes, on one hand, you can't just relax all the restrictions and behave as though everybody knows their inherent goodness, but we could actually stop doing a lot of the things that we do that reinforce the, "I am bad belief." There's a lot of talk about how the system reinforces itself.Joe: Absolutely. You can go in and treat every single person in a maximum-security prison like they are good people. That absolutely will help them. There's a great video documentary called Being Human. If you look it up online, Leonard, Being Human, you will see an example of somebody who has killed a woman and her child. The grandmother of that woman and the child showed him a certain amount of love that changed his life and you can see it. It's absolutely doable and that's how it works in relationships.The other thing is when you're trying to be managing a relationship, you don't want to be in the damn relationship. There's some part of you, whether it is you are getting sold a car and the person is trying to manage you into buying the car, you don't want to be in the relationship. That salesperson isn't as successful. They know that the best car salesmen are the ones who focus on having a good relationship and that don't try to sell the car and they outperform the ones trying to sell the car, usually, four or five to one.It's the same thing we see in our love life; our husbands, our wives, our girlfriends/boyfriends, that when we are trying to manage the other person's mood, there is less love. When we are trying to manage the other person's reaction, there is less love, there's less enjoyment in the relationship. If you are enjoying the person, there's a lot less management. If you're enjoying the moment, there's a lot less management.Brett: In the prison example, you can have boundaries.Joe: You can have boundaries without having to manage anything. A boundary is following an impulse. That's a great point. Having a boundary is basically the deepest act of non management on some level. The reason it is is because what you're saying is, "Here's what I'm going to do," and then you allow the other person to do what they are going to do, which is like, "Hey, what I know is that interacting in this kind of relationship isn't working for me. If I'm going to continue to act in this relationship, then what I want is to not have a lot of yelling and I want it to be respectful and kind." Now, that person can leave and they might leave you. It's really non management. It's just saying, "This is what I'm game for, this is what I'm willing to do in this world." That's what non management is to a large degree. That's what creates an enjoyable life even if it's scary to get there.Brett: It sounds like what you've been saying would be also if a partner is going to leave you and then you're going to have a lot of uncomfortable feelings, because of that and sadness, then that is also something to be enjoyed.Joe: Absolutely.Brett: Or we're going to be trapped by it.Joe: Right, that's another way. Most of what we are trying to manage in our life is an emotional reality. We're trying to manage emotions, trying to not feel heartbreak when our lover leaves us, trying to not feel like a failure if our boss gets angry at us. The non management of those emotional states and when I say non management, I don't mean that now you're like a puddle on the floor throwing temper tantrums and throwing tennis rackets around your house.I'm not saying non management in that way. I'm saying allowing yourself to feel the emotions fully, not act out on them, but allowing the non management of emotions so that you can actually feel them fully and you're not trying to push them down and repress them and hold your muscles to not feel them or judge other people not to feel them. That is a far more productive way of changing patterns in your life, than all the management of telling yourself you should do this or do that. You even mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast. You talked about, “...or I could just look at emotionally what's happening when I scroll on Instagram and what I'm trying to avoid.”Brett: How can we cultivate the enjoyment of those feelings that we are trying to avoid by managing?Joe: Well, stop resisting them. Half of the lack of enjoyment is the management itself. Stop trying to manage them and they'll all of a sudden become a lot more enjoyable. Stop resisting them.A lot of the things about emotional states that we find out is that it is the resistance to them that's painful, not the actual emotion itself. It's the fear of them that's painful, not the actual emotion itself. All of it is a physical sensation in your body. It has different intensities, but once it's unresisted they change rapidly, the sensation of them changes rapidly. No one's ever really been killed by an emotion or maimed by an emotion internally. Maybe an angry person maimed somebody else, but if you internally are feeling your emotions, you're not going to be wounded.Brett: Through the process of managing and suppressing our emotions, we can slowly kill ourselves with stress. That's true and depression.Joe: Yes, that's exactly it. Generally, that's the thing about management, we think we need it. What it actually is, is just a constant signal that we can find a more efficient way and a more enjoyable way. Just dropping the management itself can be enjoyment. Just to say, it's just about taking your hand of control away from it slowly.Some people, after listening to this, are like, "Okay, I'm just not going to manage any of my employees ever again." Then everything goes to shit and then they'll be like, "Yes that's right. I needed to manage it and I've proven that. I do need to manage it." What I'm saying is, see what the next level of enjoyment is, see what the next level is, because you have to find the new ways of being without management.An example that's really critical is, you're sitting with a bunch of employees or people that you work with and you need a job done. Let's say you need the car cleaned. One way to do it is to say, "I need the car cleaned." That would be maybe the least amount of management. The least amount of management is to see if anybody cleans the car, which may happen. If they have the right to defined roles and everything like that, reinventing organization style, somebody might just come and clean the car because they see it needs to get done.There's, "Hey, I need the car cleaned". Then there's like, "I need to get the car cleaned in this way, this way, this way and then make sure you detail this and do this and dah, dah, dah." Then there's car cleans just like, "Hey, I need the car cleaned and I need it to look like it looks when you get off of a new car lot. I need it to be done for less than $150 and I need you to enjoy yourself doing it." Where you give people the parameters of what a good job is but you don't tell them how to do it. You just tell them how to win.You don't see a lot of people doing it that way. You don't see that interim step, the interim step of letting people discover how to do it in a way that lets them win. Most people want to know how to win. If you keep determination and you keep intention and you keep boundaries and you keep maintaining and mandating the results that you want, then how necessary is management? The management is just the fear, that you're not going to get there. The management is just the fear, that people are going to hurt you, that people aren't going to show up.Brett: What you have been saying then in this entire episode is that in order to stop managing, we need to be willing to feel and enjoy feeling these emotions that we're trying to avoid like fear. That sounds like a really interesting topic to get into on another episode.Joe: Yes, indeed. That is a great way to think about that which is, we often try to figure stuff out before we actually allow the feeling of stuff. If we really let that feeling happen and learn how to enjoy that feeling, then most of what we're trying to figure out doesn't need to be figured out anymore.Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment podcast.  If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe. We would love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions and comments. To reach us, join our newsletter, learn more about VIEW, or to take a course, visit:  artofaccomplishment.comResources:Frederic Laloux, Reinventing Organizations, https://www.reinventingorganizations.com/Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Human, http://www.human-themovie.org/