Podcast appearances and mentions of David Bell

A classic movie bean pod. This time around David Bell joins the conversation where the beans discuss the legacy, maneuvers, and storytelling of the OG Alien. We decided to do this after we all had contentious thoughts on Alien:Romulus. So consider this round two! Facehug! Features: David Bell: https://bsky.app/profile/moviehooligan.bsky.social Michael Swaim: https://bsky.app/profile/michaelswaim.bsky.social Abe Epperson: https://bsky.app/profile/abeepp.bsky.social Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691

From war crimes and Terror to Napoleon and nationalism, unpack the fascinating dynamics of total war in the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. This interview with Dr David Avrom Bell explores the changing nature of warfare, the impact of the Enlightenment on total war, and the importance of rhetoric in this consequential struggle. We also examine controversial debates, including allegations of genocide in the Vendée and whether "the Terror" ever truly existed. The perfect conclusion to our deep dive on the War of the First Coalition in 1793 - this episode is unmissable! Learn More Davidavrombell.com Princeton Profile The Grey History Community Help keep Grey History on the air! Every revolution needs its supporters, and we need you! With an ad-free feed, a community discord, a reading club, and tonnes of exclusive bonus content, you're missing out! Do your part for as little as half a cup of coffee per episode! It's the best value on the internet, with the best people too! ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join Now And Support the Show⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Make a one-off donation⁠⁠⁠⁠ Contact Me Send your questions, praise, and scorn ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign Up⁠⁠⁠⁠ for Free Bonus Episode Follow on Social Media: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠ Advertising Please contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠sales@advertisecast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ if you would like to advertise on Grey History: The French Revolution and Napoleon. All members of the Grey History Community have an ad-free version of the show. Support the show ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠. About Grey History: The French Revolution and Napoleon is a podcast dedicated to exploring the complexities of our history. By examining both the experiences of contemporaries and the conclusions of historians, Grey History seeks to unpack the ambiguities and nuances of the past. Understanding the French Revolution and the age of Napoleon Bonaparte is critical to understanding the history of the world, so join us on a journey through a series of events that would be almost unbelievable if it weren't for the fact that it's true! If you're looking for a binge-worthy history podcast on the Revolution and Napoleon, you're in the right place! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Randall Bock – Once focused on clean water and disease control, public health now labels normal behaviors as pathologies. Dr. David Bell critiques bureaucracies that expand endlessly, from gun violence to autism spectrums. He warns that schools treat children like caged lambs, medicating fidgety boys and enforcing silent playgrounds. Labels become cages, redefining lives and sustaining broken...

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Randall Bock – Once focused on clean water and disease control, public health now labels normal behaviors as pathologies. Dr. David Bell critiques bureaucracies that expand endlessly, from gun violence to autism spectrums. He warns that schools treat children like caged lambs, medicating fidgety boys and enforcing silent playgrounds. Labels become cages, redefining lives and sustaining broken...

Bienvenue dans cette épopée se situant dans l'univers de STAR TREK. Il s'agit de sessions d'une campagne jeu de rôle transformé (autant que possible) en série audio. Située temporellement quelque part pendant la saison 2 de la série Star Trek : Deep Space 9, cette histoire conçue par Marutan se déclinera en 12 podcasts.Résumé de l'épisode précédent : Notre équipage a été fait prisonnier par les Klingons alors qu'il venait tout juste de mettre la main sur le cardassien responsable de la destruction de Deep Space 7 dans la ligne temporelle d'origine de nos héros. Mais Breel semble avoir réussi à échapper aux Klingons.Parmi les joueuses et joueur, vous pourrez retrouver Yasmine dans le rôle de la vulcaine Nirel, Marie-Paule dans le rôle de la bétazoid Ume, Ceel dans le rôle de Breele et Guigui dans son propre rôle.Musique : OST de Star Trek Deep Space 9 (Dennis McCarthy, Jay Chattaway, David Bell, Paul Baillargeoon & Gregory Smith)1-03 The Storyteller / Quaker Odo1-03 The Storyteller / The Big Wrap U1-08 The Circle / Orbosity1-11 Crossover / O'Brien Joins in Esc2-01 Main Title (Seasons 4-7)2-02 The Search, Part 1 / Recap2-11 By Inferno's Light / Armageddon3-02 Mysterious Visitor3-03 Progress / Yamok Sauce+ Klingon theme / First contact (Jerry Goldsmith)Bruitages officiels de STAR TREK (copyright Paramount), issus de la sonothèque.org et création de Guigui.Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

What will life be like on other planets? On this episode, Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice explore the origins of life on alien planets and extremophiles right here on Earth with astrobiologist Kennda Lynch. (Originally Aired February 22, 2022)NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/show/alien-worlds-and-extremophiles-with-kennda-lynch/Thanks to our Patrons Alex Chadwick, Eric Gross, Tamara Michael, Gerald Johnson, Jordan Shelley, Brendan Barbieri, David Bell, Costa Cad Creations, Tim Costella, and Adam Baker for supporting us this week.Photo Credit: Sharanbhurke, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of StarTalk Radio ad-free and a whole week early.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

Bienvenue dans cette épopée se situant dans l'univers de STAR TREK. Il s'agit de sessions d'une campagne jeu de rôle transformé (autant que possible) en série audio. Située temporellement quelque part pendant la saison 2 de la série Star Trek : Deep Space 9, cette histoire conçue par Marutan se déclinera en 12 podcasts.Résumé de l'épisode précédent : Nirel, Humme, Breel et le Lt. Guigui ont réussis à empêcher la destruction de Deep Space 7 et sont désormais à la recherche du dernier cardassien de la cellule terroriste responsable de l'explosion de la station spatiale, dans la ligne temporel de notre quator.Parmi les joueuses et joueur, vous pourrez retrouver Yasmine dans le rôle de la vulcaine Nirel, Marie-Paule dans le rôle de la bétazoid Ume, Ceel dans le rôle de Breele et Guigui dans son propre rôle.Musique : OST de Star Trek Deep Space 9 (Dennis McCarthy, Jay Chattaway, David Bell, Paul Baillargeoon & Gregory Smith)1-03 The Storyteller / Quaker Odo1-03 The Storyteller / The Big Wrap U1-08 The Circle / Orbosity1-11 Crossover / O'Brien Joins in Esc2-01 Main Title (Seasons 4-7)2-02 The Search, Part 1 / Recap2-11 By Inferno's Light / Armageddon3-02 Mysterious Visitor3-03 Progress / Yamok SauceBruitages officiels de STAR TREK (copyright Paramount), issus de la sonothèque.org et création de Guigui.Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Michael Smerconish urges listeners to hit pause before casting a reflexive "no" vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com, which asks: "Should U.S. colleges reduce foreign enrollment to better preserve American social mobility and promote national unity?" Drawing on a provocative New York Times essay by Princeton professor David Bell, he explores the complex trade-offs behind foreign student enrollment—from economic benefits and global prestige to issues of fairness, access, and national cohesion. Is it time to rebalance the system in favor of American students? Or is limiting foreign enrollment a mistake? Don't just vote—listen first. Then, head to Smerconish.com to cast your ballot.

Bienvenue dans cette épopée se situant dans l'univers de STAR TREK. Il s'agit de sessions d'une campagne jeu de rôle transformé (autant que possible) en série audio. Située temporellement quelque part pendant la saison 2 de la série Star Trek : Deep Space 9, cette histoire conçue par Marutan se déclinera en 12 podcasts.Résumé de l'épisode précédent : Le lt Guigui de Starfleet, le ferengi Breel et deux membres du maquis que sont la vulcaine Nirel et la Betazoide Ume, réussissent à échapper de justesse à la destruction de la station Deep Space 7. Ce groupe constitué par les évènements va se retrouver projeté dans le passé, quelques temps seulement avant l'explosion. Qui est derrière tout ça et surtout, que s'est-il passé ?Parmi les joueuses et joueur, vous pourrez retrouver Yasmine dans le rôle de la vulcaine Nirel, Marie-Paule dans le rôle de la bétazoid Ume, Ceel dans le rôle de Breele et Guigui dans son propre rôle.Musique : OST de Star Trek Deep Space 9 (Dennis McCarthy, Jay Chattaway, David Bell, Paul Baillargeoon & Gregory Smith)1-03 The Storyteller / Quaker Odo1-03 The Storyteller / The Big Wrap U1-08 The Circle / Orbosity1-11 Crossover / O'Brien Joins in Esc2-01 Main Title (Seasons 4-7)2-02 The Search, Part 1 / Recap2-11 By Inferno's Light / Armageddon3-02 Mysterious Visitor3-03 Progress / Yamok SauceBruitages officiels de STAR TREK (copyright Paramount), issus de la sonothèque.org et création de Guigui.Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Bienvenue dans cette épopée se situant dans l'univers de STAR TREK. Il s'agit de sessions d'une campagne jeu de rôle transformé (autant que possible) en série audio. Située temporellement quelque part pendant la saison 2 de la série Star Trek : Deep Space 9, cette histoire conçue par Marutan se déclinera en environ 10 podcasts. Parmi les joueuses et joueur, vous pourrez retrouver Yasmine dans le rôle de la vulcaine Nirel, Marie-Paule dans le rôle de la bétazoid Humme, Ceel dans le rôle de Breele et Guigui dans son propre rôle.Le système de ce jeu de rôle est basé sur celui d'Aria qui est basé sur celui de C'thulu. Les personnages des joueurs et joueuses ont des compétences allant de 1 à 99% et si le jet de dés est inférieur au chiffre de la capacité, l'action est validée. Entre 01 et 10 il s'agira d'un critique bénéfique et entre 91 et 100, c'est un critique négatif. Musique : OST de Star Trek Deep Space 9 (Dennis McCarthy, Jay Chattaway, David Bell, Paul Baillargeoon & Gregory Smith)1-03 The Storyteller / Quaker Odo1-03 The Storyteller / The Big Wrap U1-08 The Circle / Orbosity1-11 Crossover / O'Brien Joins in Esc2-01 Main Title (Seasons 4-7)2-02 The Search, Part 1 / Recap2-11 By Inferno's Light / Armageddon3-02 Mysterious Visitor3-03 Progress / Yamok SauceBruitages officiels de STAR TREK (copyright Paramount), issus de la sonothèque.org et création de Guigui.Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Our limited series with co-hosts Abe Epperson and David Bell digs deep into the internet meme of the “dad movie.” We can all probably name a dad movie, but can we isolate the tropes that really make this a bona fide film genre? Let's find out! Features: Abe Epperson: https://bsky.app/profile/abeepp.bsky.social David Bell: https://bsky.app/profile/moviehooligan.bsky.social Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691

Seems we can't go through an hour without hearing news about artificial intelligence these days. There are a lot of exciting developments, and some of the most exciting when thinking about space are coming from the USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS), which is on the cutting edge of the cutting edge. In this episode, we're speaking with the institute's director, Dr. David Bell, who will walk us through the differences between current AI, agentic AI, and--are you ready?--quantum-powered AI, and their current and future potential to revolutionize space exploration and development. Join us!Headlines Trump budget cuts: The Trump administration's fiscal 2026 "skinny" budget proposes slashing NASA's funding by $6 billion—24 % of its current $24.8 billion—threatening SLS, Orion, Gateway, and Mars Sample Return programs. Planet 9 revival: Scientists re-examining 1980s IRAS and 2006–2011 Akari infrared data have uncovered new gravitational signatures suggesting a hidden Planet 9 at ~700 AU, bringing the search closer to confirmation. Speed-round catch-up: NASA's Psyche asteroid mission is battling low fuel pressure; the decades-old Soviet Cosmos 42 Venus probe is slated to re-enter around May 10; and a recent poll finds over half of Gen Z and millennials believe in alien cover-ups. Main Topic – AI in Space with Dr. David Bell USRA & QuAIL overview: Dr. Bell outlines USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS) and its Quantum Artificial Intelligence Lab—a collaboration with Google and NASA Ames driving AI and quantum computing integration in space missions Career path & pivotal shifts: With 20+ years at USRA and a prior decade at Xerox PARC, Bell traces AI's journey from 1959's first neural nets to the 2017 transformer breakthrough that sparked today's LLM revolution. Early AI successes: AutoClass's unsupervised learning on the 1980s IRAS mission discovered a new class of infrared stars, and ExoMiner's deep-learning engine has since validated over 300 exoplanets from Kepler data. Agent-based autonomy: USRA deployed mobile agents on the ISS to automate file transfers and Deep Space One's Remote Agent performed onboard planning, execution, and anomaly recovery in deep space during the 1990s. Evolution of planning & scheduling: The Europa planning engine—used daily for Mars rovers—has evolved into SPIFe (Spiffy) and real-time collaborative "playbook" apps, optimizing workflows on both robotic and crewed missions. Natural language interfaces: Clarissa, a precursor to Siri deployed on the ISS five years before commercial voice assistants, let astronauts query and navigate complex procedures by voice. Robotic assistants: Projects like Astrobee free-flying robots on the ISS and analog-terrain rover simulations demonstrate how AI-driven machines can support astronauts in exploration and maintenance tasks. Foundation models for Earth & space: USRA's Generative AI Lab is building multipurpose foundation models on global satellite data that now outperform traditional numerical simulations—forecasting weather faster and more accurately. Workforce development: Through the Feynman Quantum Academy and NASA-integrated data science curricula, USRA immerses students These show notes have been truncated due to length. For the full show notes, visit https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space/episodes/159 Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik Guest: Dr. David Bell

Seems we can't go through an hour without hearing news about artificial intelligence these days. There are a lot of exciting developments, and some of the most exciting when thinking about space are coming from the USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS), which is on the cutting edge of the cutting edge. In this episode, we're speaking with the institute's director, Dr. David Bell, who will walk us through the differences between current AI, agentic AI, and--are you ready?--quantum-powered AI, and their current and future potential to revolutionize space exploration and development. Join us!Headlines Trump budget cuts: The Trump administration's fiscal 2026 "skinny" budget proposes slashing NASA's funding by $6 billion—24 % of its current $24.8 billion—threatening SLS, Orion, Gateway, and Mars Sample Return programs. Planet 9 revival: Scientists re-examining 1980s IRAS and 2006–2011 Akari infrared data have uncovered new gravitational signatures suggesting a hidden Planet 9 at ~700 AU, bringing the search closer to confirmation. Speed-round catch-up: NASA's Psyche asteroid mission is battling low fuel pressure; the decades-old Soviet Cosmos 42 Venus probe is slated to re-enter around May 10; and a recent poll finds over half of Gen Z and millennials believe in alien cover-ups. Main Topic – AI in Space with Dr. David Bell USRA & QuAIL overview: Dr. Bell outlines USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS) and its Quantum Artificial Intelligence Lab—a collaboration with Google and NASA Ames driving AI and quantum computing integration in space missions Career path & pivotal shifts: With 20+ years at USRA and a prior decade at Xerox PARC, Bell traces AI's journey from 1959's first neural nets to the 2017 transformer breakthrough that sparked today's LLM revolution. Early AI successes: AutoClass's unsupervised learning on the 1980s IRAS mission discovered a new class of infrared stars, and ExoMiner's deep-learning engine has since validated over 300 exoplanets from Kepler data. Agent-based autonomy: USRA deployed mobile agents on the ISS to automate file transfers and Deep Space One's Remote Agent performed onboard planning, execution, and anomaly recovery in deep space during the 1990s. Evolution of planning & scheduling: The Europa planning engine—used daily for Mars rovers—has evolved into SPIFe (Spiffy) and real-time collaborative "playbook" apps, optimizing workflows on both robotic and crewed missions. Natural language interfaces: Clarissa, a precursor to Siri deployed on the ISS five years before commercial voice assistants, let astronauts query and navigate complex procedures by voice. Robotic assistants: Projects like Astrobee free-flying robots on the ISS and analog-terrain rover simulations demonstrate how AI-driven machines can support astronauts in exploration and maintenance tasks. Foundation models for Earth & space: USRA's Generative AI Lab is building multipurpose foundation models on global satellite data that now outperform traditional numerical simulations—forecasting weather faster and more accurately. Workforce development: Through the Feynman Quantum Academy and NASA-integrated data science curricula, USRA immerses students These show notes have been truncated due to length. For the full show notes, visit https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space/episodes/159 Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik Guest: Dr. David Bell

Seems we can't go through an hour without hearing news about artificial intelligence these days. There are a lot of exciting developments, and some of the most exciting when thinking about space are coming from the USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS), which is on the cutting edge of the cutting edge. In this episode, we're speaking with the institute's director, Dr. David Bell, who will walk us through the differences between current AI, agentic AI, and--are you ready?--quantum-powered AI, and their current and future potential to revolutionize space exploration and development. Join us!Headlines Trump budget cuts: The Trump administration's fiscal 2026 "skinny" budget proposes slashing NASA's funding by $6 billion—24 % of its current $24.8 billion—threatening SLS, Orion, Gateway, and Mars Sample Return programs. Planet 9 revival: Scientists re-examining 1980s IRAS and 2006–2011 Akari infrared data have uncovered new gravitational signatures suggesting a hidden Planet 9 at ~700 AU, bringing the search closer to confirmation. Speed-round catch-up: NASA's Psyche asteroid mission is battling low fuel pressure; the decades-old Soviet Cosmos 42 Venus probe is slated to re-enter around May 10; and a recent poll finds over half of Gen Z and millennials believe in alien cover-ups. Main Topic – AI in Space with Dr. David Bell USRA & QuAIL overview: Dr. Bell outlines USRA's Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS) and its Quantum Artificial Intelligence Lab—a collaboration with Google and NASA Ames driving AI and quantum computing integration in space missions Career path & pivotal shifts: With 20+ years at USRA and a prior decade at Xerox PARC, Bell traces AI's journey from 1959's first neural nets to the 2017 transformer breakthrough that sparked today's LLM revolution. Early AI successes: AutoClass's unsupervised learning on the 1980s IRAS mission discovered a new class of infrared stars, and ExoMiner's deep-learning engine has since validated over 300 exoplanets from Kepler data. Agent-based autonomy: USRA deployed mobile agents on the ISS to automate file transfers and Deep Space One's Remote Agent performed onboard planning, execution, and anomaly recovery in deep space during the 1990s. Evolution of planning & scheduling: The Europa planning engine—used daily for Mars rovers—has evolved into SPIFe (Spiffy) and real-time collaborative "playbook" apps, optimizing workflows on both robotic and crewed missions. Natural language interfaces: Clarissa, a precursor to Siri deployed on the ISS five years before commercial voice assistants, let astronauts query and navigate complex procedures by voice. Robotic assistants: Projects like Astrobee free-flying robots on the ISS and analog-terrain rover simulations demonstrate how AI-driven machines can support astronauts in exploration and maintenance tasks. Foundation models for Earth & space: USRA's Generative AI Lab is building multipurpose foundation models on global satellite data that now outperform traditional numerical simulations—forecasting weather faster and more accurately. Workforce development: Through the Feynman Quantum Academy and NASA-integrated data science curricula, USRA immerses students These show notes have been truncated due to length. For the full show notes, visit https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-space/episodes/159 Hosts: Rod Pyle and Tariq Malik Guest: Dr. David Bell

The DOGGZZONE welcomes back David Bell! After "Child of Peach" back in episode 223, the DOGGZZONE was undoubtedly put on MOST federal watch lists. Not good enough. We aim to be on ALL watch lists, so we dug up David Bell to join us as we recap, "The Milky Life" featuring everyone's favorite infant elder, Micky Rooney! Make no mistake, these podcasts are crimes and you're implicit... not to worry, there's plenty of commissary to go around on our tab... and it's allll MILK. Strap on your diaper, we're going to hell.

On Episode 832 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!?, Dooner is sharing the trucking industry's reaction to Trump's executive order requiring truck drivers to speak and understand English. The order rescinds a 2016 FMCSA memo that effectively eliminated roadside enforcement of English proficiency.  Adil Ashiq is a former U.S. Merchant Marine captain-turned-supply chain and maritime industry nerd. We'll find out how to navigate tumultuous trade waters. We'll look at maritime employment and the Jones Act.  CloneOps' David Bell talks about who the winners and losers will be in AI lead communication for logistics service providers. Plus, some auto tariffs hit reverse; rate the strap work; 100 truckers vs 1 gorilla, and more.  3:27 Trucking leaders applaud English language Executive Order 12:25 Auto tariffs in reverse? (Craig Video 15:00) 16:14 FreightTech adoption | David Bell 24:51 100 truckers vs 1 gorilla  26:37 Rate the strap work 27:37 Show me the tariffs | Capt. Adil Ashiq 39:57 Maritime policy | Capt. Adil Ashiq 43:25 100 seamen vs 1 gorilla Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Visit our sponsor Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Episode 832 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!?, Dooner is sharing the trucking industry's reaction to Trump's executive order requiring truck drivers to speak and understand English. The order rescinds a 2016 FMCSA memo that effectively eliminated roadside enforcement of English proficiency.  Adil Ashiq is a former U.S. Merchant Marine captain-turned-supply chain and maritime industry nerd. We'll find out how to navigate tumultuous trade waters. We'll look at maritime employment and the Jones Act.  CloneOps' David Bell talks about who the winners and losers will be in AI lead communication for logistics service providers. Plus, some auto tariffs hit reverse; rate the strap work; 100 truckers vs 1 gorilla, and more.  3:27 Trucking leaders applaud English language Executive Order 12:25 Auto tariffs in reverse? (Craig Video 15:00) 16:14 FreightTech adoption | David Bell 24:51 100 truckers vs 1 gorilla  26:37 Rate the strap work 27:37 Show me the tariffs | Capt. Adil Ashiq 39:57 Maritime policy | Capt. Adil Ashiq 43:25 100 seamen vs 1 gorilla Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Visit our sponsor Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Few analysts are more familiar with the politics of both contemporary Turkey and the United States than my old friend , the distinguished Turkish political scientist Soli Ozel. Drawing on his decades of experience in both countries, Ozel, currently a senior fellow at the Institut Montaigne, explains how democratic institutions are similarly being challenged in Trump's America and Erdogan's Turkey. He discusses the imprisonment of Istanbul's popular mayor Ekrem Imamoglu, restrictive speech in American universities, and how economic decline eventually undermines authoritarian regimes. Ozel emphasizes that effective opposition requires both public discontent and compelling leadership alternatives, which Turkey has developed but America currently sorely lacks. Most intriguingly, he suggests that Harvard's legal battle against Trump could be as significant as the 1925 Scopes trial which marked the end of another bout of anti-scientific hysteria in America. 5 Key Takeaways* Populist authoritarianism follows a similar pattern regardless of left/right ideology - controlling judiciary, media, and institutions while claiming to represent "the people" against elites.* Academic freedom in America has declined significantly, with Ozel noting he experienced more classroom freedom in Turkey than at Yale in 2019.* Economic pain combined with a crisis of legitimacy is crucial for challenging authoritarian regimes, but requires credible opposition leadership to succeed.* Istanbul mayor Imamoglu has emerged as a powerful opposition figure in Turkey by appealing across political divides and demonstrating practical governance skills.* Turkey's strategic importance has increased due to its position between war zones (Syria and Ukraine) and Europe's growing need for security partners as American support becomes less certain. Full TranscriptAndrew Keen: Hello, everybody. It's not great news these days that the U.S. Brand has been, so to speak, tarnished as a headline today on CNN. I'm quoting them. CNN, of course, is not Donald Trump's biggest fan. Trump tarnishes the U S brand as a rock of stability in the global economy. I'm not sure if the US was ever really a rock of stability for anything except itself. But we on the show as. As loyal viewers and listeners know, we've been going around the world, taking stock of the US brand, how it's viewed around the word. We did a show last week with Simon Cooper, the Dutch-based Paris writer of the Financial Times, who believes it's time for all Americans to come and live in Europe. And then with Jemima Kelly, another London-based correspondent. And I thought we would broaden. I asked european perspective by visiting my old friend very old friend Soli Ozel. iVve known him for almost forty years he's a. Senior fellow of international relations and turkey at the montane institute he's talking to us from vienna but he is a man who is born and spends a lot of his time thinking about. Turkey, he has an interesting new piece out in the Institute Montaigne. Turkey, a crisis of legitimacy and massive social mobilization in a regional power. I want to talk to Soli later in this conversation about his take on what's happening in Turkey. But first of all, Soli, before we went live, you noted that you first came to America in September 1977. You were educated here, undergraduate, graduate, both at uh, sized in Washington DC and then at UC Berkeley, where you and I studied together at the graduate program. Um, how do you feel almost 50 years, sorry, we're dating ourselves, but how did you feel taking off your political science cap, your analyst cap, how did you feel about what's happening in America as, as a man who invested your life in some ways in the promise of America, and particularly American education universities.Soli Ozel: Yeah, I mean, I, yes, I came to the States or I went to the States in September of 1977. It was a very different America, post Vietnam. And I went through an avant garde college liberal arts college.Andrew Keen: Bennington wasn'tSoli Ozel: Bennington College, and I've spent about 11 years there. And you and I met in 1983 in Berkeley. And then I also taught at American universities. I taught at UC Santa Cruz, Northwestern, SAIS itself, University of Washington, Yale, and had fellowships in different parts. Now, of course, in those years, a lot has changed in the US. The US has changed. In fact, I'm writing a piece now on Christopher Lash. And reading Christopher Lasch work from the 60s and the 1970s, in a way, you wonder why Trumpism has not really emerged a bit earlier than when it did. So, a lot of the... Dynamics that have brought Donald Trump to power, not once, but twice, and in spite of the fact that, you know, he was tried and found guilty and all that. Many of those elements have been there definitely since the 1980s, but Lascch identified especially this divergence between educated people and less educated people between brainies and or the managerial class and the working class in the United States. So, in a way, it looks like the Trumpism's triumph came even a bit late, although there were a couple of attempts perhaps in the early 1990s. One was Pat Buchanan and the other one, Ross Perot, which we forget that Ross Perot got 19% of the vote against in the contest when Bill Clinton. Won the election against George H.W. Bush. So underground, if you will, a lot was happening in the United States.Andrew Keen: All right. And it's interesting you bring up Lash, there's that sort of whole school Lasch Daniel Bell, of course, we had Daniel Bell's son, David Bell, on the show recently. And there's a lot of discussion, as I'm sure you know, about the nativism of Trump, whether it's uniquely American, whether it was somehow inevitable. We've done last week, we did a show about comparing what's happening now in America to what happened after the First World War. Being less analytical, Solé, my question was more an emotional one to you as someone who has built their life around freedom of expression in American universities. You were at Bennington, you were at SICE, you're at UC Berkeley, as you know, you taught at UC Santa Cruz and Yale and many other places. You come in and out of this country giving lectures. How do you personally feel about what's happening?Soli Ozel: Yeah, okay. I mean, in that sense, again, the United States, by the way, I mean the United States has been changing independently of Mr. Trump's presidency. It was much more difficult to be, I mean when I went to college in Bennington College, you really did not bite your tongue when you were going to speak either as a student or a professor. And increasingly, and especially in my last bout at Yale in 2019, I felt that, you know, there were a lot of constraints on what you could say or how you could say it, whether you would call it walkism, political correctness, whatever it was. It was a much, the atmosphere at the university was much more constrained in terms of what transpired in the classroom and that I mean, in Turkey, I had more freedom in terms of how we debated things in class that I felt that...Andrew Keen: That is astonishing. So you had more freedom in...Soli Ozel: As well, you did in Yale in 1990. I'm talking about not the political aspect of things, but how you debate something, okay, whether or not, I mean, there would be lots of views and you could you could present them without insulting anyone, however you presented them was fine, and this is how what the dynamics of the classroom had been when I was a student. So, in that sense, I guess it wasn't just the right that constrained speech, but also the left that constrained the speech, because new values were added or new norms were invented to define what can and cannot be said. And of course, that goes against the grain of what a university education ought to be. I mean, I had colleagues. In major universities who told me that they really were biting their tongue when they were giving their lectures. And that is not my understanding of education or college education and that certainly has not been my experience when I came to the States and for my long education here for 11 years.Andrew Keen: Solit, you and I have a long history of thinking about the Middle East, where back in the early 80s, we TA'd a class on the Arab-Israeli conflict with Yaya Sadowski, who at that time was a very independent thinker. I know he was a close friend of yours. I was always very influenced by his thinking. You're from Izmir, from a Jewish family in Turkey. So you're all too familiar with the complexity of anti-Semitism, Israel, the Middle East, Turkey. What do you personally make of this hysteria now on campus about anti-semitism and throwing out anyone, it seems, at least from the Trump point of view, who are pro-Palestinian? Is this again, I mean, you went back to Christopher Lasch and his thinking on populism and the dangers of populism in America. Or is this something that... Comes out of the peculiarities of American history. We have predicted this 40 years ago when you and I were TAing Sadowski's class on Arab-Israeli conflict at Berkeley.Soli Ozel: The Arab-Israeli conflict always raises passions, if you will. And it's no different. To put it mildly, Salvador, I think. Yeah, it is a bit different now. I mean, of course, my hunch is that anti-Semitism is always present. There is no doubt. And although I followed the developments very closely after October 7. I was not in there physically present. I had some friends, daughters and sons who were students who have reported to me because I'm supposed to know something about those matters. So yeah, antisemitism is there. On the other hand, there is also some exaggeration. We know that a lot of the protesters, for instance, were Jews themselves. But my hunch is that the Trump administration, especially in their attack against elite universities, are using this for political purposes. I'm sure there were other ways of handling this. I don't find it very sincere. And a real problem is being dealt with in a very manipulative political way, I think. Other and moreover So long as there was no violence and I know there were instances of violence that should be punished that I don't have any complaints about, but partially if this is only related to what you say, I'm not sure that this is how a university or relations between students at the university ought to be conducted. If you're not going to be able to say what you think at the university, then what else are you going to say? Are you going be able say it? So this is a much more complicated matter than it is being presented. And as I said, my view or based on what I follow that is happening at colleges, this is being used as an excuse. As somebody I think Peter Beinhart wrote today in the New York Times. He says, No, no, no. It is not really about protecting Jewish students, but it is protecting a certain... Type of Jewish students, and that means it's a political decision, the complaints, legitimate complaints, perhaps, of some students to use those against university administrations or universities themselves that the Trump administration seems to be targeting.Andrew Keen: Yeah, it's interesting you bring up Beinart. He was on the show a year or two ago. I think he notes that, I mean, I don't want to put words into his mouth, but he seems to be suggesting that Jews now have a responsibility almost to speak out, not just obviously about what's happening in the U.S., but certainly about what is happening in Gaza. I'm not sure what you think on.Soli Ozel: He just published a book, he just published the book being Jewish in the US after Gaza or something along those lines. He represents a certain way of thinking about what had happened in Gaza, I mean what had happened to Israel with the attack of Hamas and what had happened afterwards, whether or not he represents the majority. Do you agree with him? I happen to be. I happen to be sympathetic to his views. And especially when you read the book at the beginning, it says, look, he's a believer. Believer meaning he is a practicing Jew. So this is not really a question about his own Jewishness, but how he understands what being a Jew actually means. And from that perspective, putting a lot of accent to the moral aspects of Jewish history and Jewish theological and secular thinking, He is rebelling, if you will, against this way of manipulative use. On the part of some Jewish organizations as well of what had gone on and this is this he sees as a along with others actually he also sees this as a threat to Jewish presence in the United States. You know there is a simultaneous increase in in anti-semitism. And some people argue that this has begun even before October 7. Let us not forget Charlottesville when the crowds that were deemed to be nice people were chanting, Jews will not replace us, and those people are still around. Yeah, a lot of them went to jail.Andrew Keen: Yeah, I mean Trump seemed to have pardoned some of them. And Solly, what do you make of quote-unquote the resistance to Trump in the U.S.? You're a longtime observer of authoritarianism, both personally and in political science terms. One of the headlines the last few days is about the elite universities forming a private collective to resist the Trump administration. Is this for real and is it new? Should we admire the universities or have they been forced into this position?Soli Ozel: Well, I mean, look, you started your talk with the CNN title. Yeah, about the brand, the tarnishing of the U.S. Whatever the CNN stands for. The thing is, there is no question that what is happening today and what has been happening in my judgment over the last two years, particularly on the issue of Gaza, I would not... Exonerate the Biden administration and the way it actually managed its policy vis-a-vis that conflict. There is, of course, a reflection on American policy vis a vis that particular problem and with the Trump administration and 100 days of storm, if you will, around the world, there is a shift in the way people look at the United States. I think it is not a very favorable shift in terms of how people view and understand the United States. Now, that particular thing, the colleges coming together, institutions in the United States where the Americans are very proud of their Madisonian institutions, they believe that that was there. Uh, if you will, insurance policy against an authoritarian drift in their system. Those institutions, both public institutions and private institutions actually proved to be paper tigers. I mean, look at corporations that caved in, look at law firms that arcade that have caved in, Look at Columbia university being, if you will the most egregious example of caving in and plus still not getting the money or not actually stopping the demands that are made on it. So Harvard after equivocating on this finally came up with a response and decided to take the risk of losing massive sums of grants from the federal government. And in fact, it's even suing. The Trump administration for withholding the money that was supposed to go to them. And I guess there is an awakening and the other colleges in order to protect freedom of expression, in order, to protect the independence of higher education in this country, which has been sacrosanct, which is why a lot of people from all around the world, students... Including you and I, right? I mean, that's why we... Yeah, exactly. By the way, it's anywhere between $44 and $50 billion worth of business as well. Then it is there finally coming together, because if you don't hang together, you'll hang separately, is a good American expression that I like. And then trying to defend themselves. And I think this Harvard slope suit, the case of Harvard, is going to be like the Stokes trial of the 1920s on evolution. It's going to be a very similar case, I believe, and it may determine how American democracy goes from now.Andrew Keen: Interesting. You introduced me to Ece Temelkuren, another of your friends from someone who no longer lives in Turkey. She's a very influential Turkish columnist, polemicist. She wrote a famous book, How to Lose a Country. She and you have often compared Turkey. With the rest of the world suggesting that what you're going through in Turkey is the kind of canary in the coal mine for the rest the world. You just came out with a piece, Turkey, a crisis of legitimacy, a massive social mobilization and regional power. I want to get to the details of what's happening in Turkey first. But like Ece, do you see Turkey as the kind of canary and the coalmine that you got into this first? You're kind of leading the narrative of how to address authoritarianism in the 25th century.Soli Ozel: I don't think Turkey was the first one. I think the first one was Hugo Chavez. And then others followed. Turkey certainly is a prominent one. But you know, you and I did other programs and in an earlier era, about 15 years ago. Turkey was actually doing fine. I mean, it was a candidate for membership, still presumably, formally, a candidate for membership in the European Union, but at the time when that thing was alive. Turkey did, I mean, the AKP government or Erdogan as prime minister did a lot of things that were going in the right direction. They certainly demilitarized Turkish politics, but increasingly as they consolidated themselves in power, they moved in a more authoritarian path. And of course, after the coup attempt in 2016 on the 15th of July, that trend towards authoritarianism had been exacerbated and but with the help of a very sui generis if you will unaccountable presidential system we are we find ourselves where we are but The thing is what has been missed out by many abroad was that there was also a very strong resistance that had remained actually unbowing for a long time. And Istanbul, which is, of course, almost a fifth of Turkey's population, 32 percent of its economy, and that's where the pulse of the country actually beats, since 2017 did not vote for Mr Erdogan. I mean, referendum, general election, municipal election. It hasn't, it hasn't. And that is that really, it really represents the future. And today, the disenchantment or discontent has now become much broader, much more broadly based because conservative Anatolia is also now feeling the biting of the economy. And this sense of justice in the country has been severely damaged. And That's what I think explains. The kinds of reaction we had throughout the country to the first arrest and then incarceration of the very popular mayor of Istanbul who is a national figure and who was seen as the main contender for the presidency in the elections that are scheduled to take place in.Andrew Keen: Yeah, and I want to talk more about Turkey's opposition and an interesting New York Times editorial. But before we get there, Soli, you mentioned that the original model was Chavez in Venezuela, of course, who's always considered a leftist populist, whereas Erdogan, Trump, etc., and maybe Netanyahu are considered populists of the right. Is that a useful? Bifurcation in ideological terms or a populist populism that the idea of Chavez being different from Trump because one's on the left and right is really a 20th century mistake or a way of thinking about the 21st century using 20th-century terms.Soli Ozel: Okay, I mean the ideological proclivities do make a difference perhaps, but at the end of the day, what all these populist movements represent is the coming of age or is the coming to power of country elites. Suggests claiming to represent the popular classes whom they say and who are deprived of. Uh, benefits of holding power economically or politically, but once they get established in power and with the authoritarian tilt doesn't really make a distinction in terms of right or wrong. I mean, is Maduro the successor to Chavez a rightist or a leftist? I mean does it really make a difference whether he calls himself a leftists or a rightists? I is unaccountable, is authoritarian. He loses elections and then he claims that he wins these elections and so the ideology that purportedly brought them to power becomes a fig leaf, if you will, justification and maybe the language that they use in order to justify the existing authoritarianism. In that sense, I don't think it makes a difference. Maybe initially it could have made a difference, We have seen populist leaders. Different type of populism perhaps in Latin America. For instance, the Peruvian military was supposed to be very leftist, whereas the Chilean or the Brazilian or the Argentinian or the Uruguayan militaries were very right-wing supported by the church itself. Nicaragua was supposed to be very Leftist, right? They had a revolution, the Sandinista revolution. And look at Daniel Ortega today, does it really matter that he claims himself to be a man of the left? I mean, He runs a family business in Nicaragua. And so all those people who were so very excited about the Nicaraguan Revolution some 45 years ago must be extraordinarily disappointed. I mean, of course, I was also there as a student and wondering what was going to happen in Nicaragua, feeling good about it and all that. And that turned out to be an awful dictatorship itself.Andrew Keen: Yeah, and on this sense, I think you're on the same page as our mutual friend, Moises Naim, who wrote a very influential book a couple of years ago. He's been on the show many times about learning all this from the Latin American playbook because of his experience in Venezuela. He has a front row on this. Solly, is there one? On this, I mean, as I said, you just come out with a piece on the current situation in Turkey and talk a little bit more detail, but is America a few stops behind Turkey? I mean you mentioned that in Turkey now everyone, not just the urban elites in Istanbul, but everyone in the country is beginning to experience the economic decline and consequences of failed policies. A lot of people are predicting the same of Trump's America in the next year or two. Is there just one route in this journey? Is there's just one rail line?Soli Ozel: Like by what the root of established wow a root in the sense of youAndrew Keen: Erdogan or Trump, they come in, they tell lots of lies, they promise a lot of stuff, and then ultimately they can't deliver. Whatever they're promising, the reverse often happens. The people they're supposed to be representing are actually victims of their policies. We're seeing it in America with the consequences of the tariff stuff, of inflation and rise of unemployment and the consequences higher prices. It has something similar. I think of it as the Liz Truss effect, in the sense that the markets ultimately are the truth. And Erdogan, I know, fought the markets and lost a few years ago in Turkey too.Soli Ozel: There was an article last week in Financial Times Weekend Edition, Mr. Trump versus Mr. Market. Trump versus, Mr. Market. Look, first of all, I mean, in establishing a system, the Orban's or Modi's, they all follow, and it's all in Ece's book, of course. You have to control the judiciary, you have to control the media, and then all the institutions. Gradually become under your thumb. And then the way out of it is for first of all, of course, economic problems, economic pain, obviously makes people uncomfortable, but it will have to be combined with the lack of legitimacy, if you will. And that is, I don't think it's right, it's there for in the United States as of yet, but the shock has been so. Robust, if you will, that the reaction to Trump is also rising in a very short period, in a lot shorter period of time than it did in other parts of the world. But economic conditions, the fact that they worsen, is an important matter. But there are other conditions that need to be fulfilled. One of those I would think is absolutely the presence of a political leader that defies the ones in power. And I think when I look at the American scene today, one of the problems that may, one of problems that the political system seems to have, which of course, no matter how economically damaging the Trump administration may be, may not lead to an objection to it. To a loss of power in the midterms to begin with, is lack of leadership in the Democratic Party and lack of a clear perspective that they can share or program that they present to the public at large. Without that, the ones that are in power hold a lot of cards. I mean, it took Turkey about... 18 years after the AKP came to power to finally have potential leaders, and only in 2024 did it become very apparent that now Turkey had more than one leader that could actually challenge Erdogan, and that they also had, if not to support the belief in the public, that they could also run the country. Because if the public does not believe that you are competent enough to manage the affairs of the state or to run the country, they will not vote for you. And leadership truly is an extraordinarily important factor in having democratic change in such systems, what we call electoral authoritarian.Andrew Keen: So what's happened in Turkey in terms of the opposition? The mayor of Istanbul has emerged as a leader. There's an attempt to put him in jail. You talk about the need for an opposition. Is he an ideological figure or just simply younger, more charismatic? More attractive on the media. What do you need and what is missing in the US and what do you have in Turkey? Why are you a couple of chapters ahead on this?Soli Ozel: Well, it was a couple of chapters ahead because we have had the same government or the same ruler for 22 years now.Andrew Keen: And Imamo, I wanted you to pronounce it, Sali, because my Turkish is dreadful. It's worse than most of the other.Soli Ozel: He is the mayor of Istanbul who is now in jail and whose diploma was annulled by the university which actually gave him the diploma and the reason why that is important is if you want to run for president in Turkey, you've got to have a college degree. So that's how it all started. And then he was charged with corruption and terrorism. And he's put in zero. Oh, it's terrorism. There was.Andrew Keen: It's terrorism, they always throw the terrorist bit in, don't they, Simon?Soli Ozel: Yeah, but that dossier is, for the moment, pending. It has not been closed, but it is pending. Anyway, he is young, but his major power is that he can touch all segments of society, conservative, nationalist, leftist. And that's what makes people compare him also with Erdogan who also had a touch of appealing to different segments of the population. But of course, he's secular. He's not ideological, he's a practical man. And Istanbul's population is about anywhere between 16 and 18 million people. It's larger than many countries in Europe. And to manage a city like Istanbul requires really good managerial skills. And Imamoglu managed this in spite of the fact that central government cut its resources, made sure that there was obstruction in every step that he wanted to take, and did not help him a bit. And that still was continuing. Still, he won once. Then there was a repeat election. He won again. And this time around, he one with a landslide, 54% against 44% of his opponent, which had all theAndrew Keen: So the way you're presenting him, is he running as a technocrat or is he running as a celebrity?Soli Ozel: No, he's running as a politician. He's running a politician, he is a popular politician. Maybe you can see tinges of populism in him as well, but... He is what, again, what I think his incarceration having prompted such a wide ranging segments of population really kind of rebelling against this incarceration has to do with the fact that he has resonance in Anatolia. Because he does not scare conservative people. He aspires the youth because he speaks to them directly and he actually made promises to them in Istanbul that he kept, he made their lives easier. And he's been very creative in helping the poorer segments of Istanbul with a variety of programs. And he has done this without really being terribly pushing. So, I mean, I think I sense that the country sees him as its next ruler. And so to attack him was basically tampering with the verdict of the ballot box. That's, I, think how the Turkish public interpreted it. And for good historical reasons, the ballot box is really pretty sacred in Turkey. We usually have upwards of 80% of participation in the election.Andrew Keen: And they're relatively, I mean, not just free, but the results are relatively honest. Yeah, there was an interesting New York Times editorial a couple of days ago. I sent it over. I'm sure you'd read it anyway. Turkey's people are resisting autocracy. They deserve more than silence. I mean from Trump, who has very peculiar relations, he has peculiar relations with everyone, but particularly it seems with Turkey does, in your view, does Turkey needs or the resistance or the mayor of Istanbul this issue, need more support from the US? Would it make any difference?Soli Ozel: Well, first of all, the current American administration didn't seem to particularly care that the arrest and incarceration of the mayor of Istanbul was a bit, to say the least, was awkward and certainly not very legal. I mean, Mario Rubio said, Marco Rubio said that he had concerns. But Mr. Witkoff, in the middle of demonstrations that were shaking the country, Mr. Witkof said it to Tucker Carlson's show that there were very wonderful news coming out of Turkey. And of course, President Trump praised Erdogan several times. They've been on the phone, I think, five times. And he praised Erdogan in front of Bibi Netanyahu, which obviously Bibi Netanyah did not particularly appreciate either. So obviously the American administration likes Mr. Erdogans and will support him. And whatever the Turkish public may or may not want, I don't think is of great interest toAndrew Keen: What about the international dimension, sorry, Putin, the Ukrainian war? How does that play out in terms of the narrative unfolding in Turkey?Soli Ozel: Well, first of all, of course, when the Assad regime fell,Andrew Keen: Right, and as that of course. And Syria of course as well posts that.Soli Ozel: Yeah, I mean, look, Turkey is in the middle of two. War zones, no? Syria was one and the Ukraine is the other. And so when the regime fell and it was brought down by groups that were protected by Turkey in Idlib province of Syria. Everybody argued, and I think not wrongly, that Turkey would have a lot of say over the future of Syria. And I think it will. First of all, Turkey has about 600 miles or 911 kilometer border with Syria and the historical relations.Andrew Keen: And lots of Syrian refugees, of course.Soli Ozel: At the peak, there were about 4 million, I think it's now going down. President Erdogan said that about 200,000 already went back since the overthrow of the regime. And then of course, to the north, there is Ukraine, Russia. And of course this elevates Turkey's strategic importance or geopolitical importance. Another issue that raises Turkish geopolitical importance is, of course, the gradual withdrawal of the United States from providing security to Europe under the umbrella of NATO, North Atlantic Alliance. And as the Europeans are being forced to fetch for themselves for their security, non-EU members of NATO such as Britain, Norway, Turkey, their importance becomes more accentuated as well. And so Turkey and the European Union were in the process of at least somewhat normalizing their relations and their dialog. So what happened domestically, therefore, did not get much of a reaction from the EU, which is supposed to be this paragon of rights and liberties and all that. But But it also left Turkey in a game in an awkward situation, I would think, because things could have gone much, much better. The rapprochement with the European Union could have moved a lot more rapidly, I will think. But geopolitical advantages are there. Obviously, the Americans care a lot for it. And whatever it is that they're negotiating with the Turkish government, we will soon find out. It is a... It is a country that would help stabilize Syria. And that's what President Trump also said, that he would adjudicate between Israel and Turkey over Syria, because these two countries which have been politically at odds, but strategically usually in very good terms. Whether or not the, so to avoid a clash between the two in Syria was important for him. So Turkey's international situation will continue to be important, but I think without the developments domestically, Turkey's position and profile would have been much more solid.Andrew Keen: Comparing US and Turkey, the US military has never participated, at least overtly, in politics, whereas the Turkish military, of course, has historically. Where's the Turkish Military on this? What are they thinking about these imprisonments and the increasing unpopularity of the current regime?Soli Ozel: I think the demilitarization of the Turkish political system was accomplished by the end of the 2000s, so I don't think anybody knows what the military thinks and I'm not sure that anybody really wonders what the army thinks. I think Erdogan has certainly on the top echelons of the military, it has full control. Whether or not the cadets in the Turkish military are lower echelons. Do have political views at odds with that of the government that is not visible. And I don't think the Turkish military should be designing or defining our political system. We have an electorate. We do have a fairly, how shall I say, a public that is fairly attuned to its own rights. And believes certainly in the sanctity of the ballot box, it's been resisting for quite some time and it is defying the authorities and we should let that take its course. I don't think we need the military to do it.Andrew Keen: Finally, Soli, you've been very generous with your time from Vienna. It's late afternoon there. Let's end where we began with this supposed tarnishing of the U.S. Brand. As we noted earlier, you and I have invested our lives, if for better or worse, in the U S brand. We've always been critical, but we've also been believers in this. It's also important in this brand.Soli Ozel: It is an important grant.Andrew Keen: So how do we, and I don't like this term, maybe there is a better term, brands suggest marketing, something not real, but there is something real about the US. How do we re-establish, or I don't know what the word is, a polish rather than tarnish the US brand? What needs to happen in the U.S.Soli Ozel: Well, I think we will first have to see the reinvigoration of institutions in the United States that have been assaulted. That's why I think the Harvard case... Yeah, and I love you.Andrew Keen: Yeah, and I love your idea of comparing it to the Scopes trial of 1926. We probably should do a whole show on that, it's fascinating idea.Soli Ozel: Okay, and then the Democratic Party will have to get its act together. I don't know how long it will take for them to get their act together, they have not been very...Andrew Keen: Clever. But some Democrats will say, well, there's more than one party. The Sanders AOC wing has done its job. People like Gavin Newsom are trying to do their job. I mean, you can't have an official party. There's gonna be a debate. There already is a debate within the party between the left and the right.Soli Ozel: The thing is, debates can be endless, and I don't think there is time for that. First of all, I think the decentralized nature of American governance is also an advantage. And I think that the assault has been so forceful that everybody has woken up to it. It could have been the frog method, you know, that is... Yeah, the boiling in the hot water. So, already people have begun to jump and that is good, that's a sign of vitality. And therefore, I think in due time, things will be evolving in a different direction. But, for populist or authoritarian inclined populist regimes, control of the institutions is very important, so you've got to be alert. And what I discovered, studying these things and looking at the practice. Executive power is a lot of power. So separation of powers is fine and good, but the thing is executive power is really very... Prominent and the legislature, especially in this particular case with the Republican party that has become the instrument of President Trump, and the judiciary which resists but its power is limited. I mean, what do you do when a court decision is not abided by the administration? You cannot send the police to the White House.Andrew Keen: Well, you might have to, that's why I asked the military question.Soli Ozel: Well, it's not up to the military to do this, somehow it will have to be resolved within the civilian democratic system, no matter where. Yes, the decks are stacked against the opposition in most of these cases, but then you'll have to fight. And I think a lot hinges on how corporations are going to react from now on. They have bet on Trump, and I suppose that many of them are regretting because of the tariffs. I just was at a conference, and there was a German business person who said that he has a factory in Germany and a factory in Ohio. And he told me that within three months there would not be any of the goods that he produces on the shelves because of tariffs. Once this begins to hit, then you may see a different dynamic in the country as well, unless the administration takes a U-turn. But if it does take a U turn, it will also have weakened itself, both domestically and internationally.Andrew Keen: Yeah, certainly, to put it mildly. Well, as we noted, Soli, what's real is economics. The rest is perhaps froth or lies or propaganda. Soli Ozel: It's a necessary condition. Without that deteriorating, you really cannot get things on values done.Andrew Keen: In other words, Marx was right, but perhaps in a slightly different context. We're not going to get into Marx today, Soli, we're going to get you back on the show. Cause I love that comparison with the current, the Harvard Trump legal thing, comparing it to Scopes. I think I hadn't thought of that. It's a very interesting idea. Keep well, keep safe, keep telling the truth from Central Europe and Turkey. As always, Solia, it's an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much.Soli Ozel: Thank you, Andrew, for having me.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

1 Corinthians 3 (David Bell)

We welcomed Dr. David Bell, Director of the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science which is an institute of the parent company, Universities Space Research Association (USRA). Our guest introduced us to USRA, then we discussed its history and some of the history associated with AI and machine learning for space as well as other industries. We talked about ways in which AI has been used in space and is now being used for space exploration, weather analysis with satellites, imaging and more. Quantum computing was an additional part of our discussion, along with the energy needed for AI and quantum. In fact one of our callers inquired about the market for He3 for fuel for quantum. At time Dr. Bell said that AI for space was now routine, going on to tell us what parts of space were routine. Don't miss his commentary. Lots of other topics came up including self-replicating machines, AI for settlement, AI on the Moon and for lunar development, AI to further human spaceflight. Toward the end of our program we talked about global competition and a race for leadership with AI and Quantum. Listen to what our guest had to say about China in this context. Also plasma 3D printing, partnerships and the commercial industry. Please read the full summary of this program when available at www.thespaceshow.com for this date, Friday, April 25, 2025.

So what, exactly, was “The Enlightenment”? According to the Princeton historian David A. Bell, it was an intellectual movement roughly spanning the early 18th century through to the French Revolution. In his Spring 2025 Liberties Quarterly piece “The Enlightenment, Then and Now”, Bell charts the Enlightenment as a complex intellectual movement centered in Paris but with hubs across Europe and America. He highlights key figures like Montesquieu, Voltaire, Kant, and Franklin, discussing their contributions to concepts of religious tolerance, free speech, and rationality. In our conversation, Bell addresses criticisms of the Enlightenment, including its complicated relationship with colonialism and slavery, while arguing that its principles of freedom and reason remain relevant today. 5 Key Takeaways* The Enlightenment emerged in the early 18th century (around 1720s) and was characterized by intellectual inquiry, skepticism toward religion, and a growing sense among thinkers that they were living in an "enlightened century."* While Paris was the central hub, the Enlightenment had multiple centers including Scotland, Germany, and America, with thinkers like Voltaire, Rousseau, Kant, Hume, and Franklin contributing to its development.* The Enlightenment introduced the concept of "society" as a sphere of human existence separate from religion and politics, forming the basis of modern social sciences.* The movement had a complex relationship with colonialism and slavery - many Enlightenment thinkers criticized slavery, but some of their ideas about human progress were later used to justify imperialism.* According to Bell, rather than trying to "return to the Enlightenment," modern society should selectively adopt and adapt its valuable principles of free speech, religious tolerance, and education to create our "own Enlightenment."David Avrom Bell is a historian of early modern and modern Europe at Princeton University. His most recent book, published in 2020 by Farrar, Straus and Giroux, is Men on Horseback: The Power of Charisma in the Age of Revolution. Described in the Journal of Modern History as an "instant classic," it is available in paperback from Picador, in French translation from Fayard, and in Italian translation from Viella. A study of how new forms of political charisma arose in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the book shows that charismatic authoritarianism is as modern a political form as liberal democracy, and shares many of the same origins. Based on exhaustive research in original sources, the book includes case studies of the careers of George Washington, Napoleon Bonaparte, Toussaint Louverture and Simon Bolivar. The book's Introduction can be read here. An online conversation about the book with Annette Gordon-Reed, hosted by the Cullman Center of the New York Public Library, can be viewed here. Links to material about the book, including reviews in The New York Review of Books, The Guardian, Harper's, The New Republic, The Nation, Le Monde, The Los Angeles Review of Books and other venues can be found here. Bell is also the author of six previous books. He has published academic articles in both English and French and contributes regularly to general interest publications on a variety of subjects, ranging from modern warfare, to contemporary French politics, to the impact of digital technology on learning and scholarship, and of course French history. A list of his publications from 2023 and 2024 can be found here. His Substack newsletter can be found here. His writings have been translated into French, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Hebrew, Swedish, Polish, Russian, German, Croatian, Italian, Turkish and Japanese. At the History Department at Princeton University, he holds the Sidney and Ruth Lapidus Chair in the Era of North Atlantic Revolutions, and offers courses on early modern Europe, on military history, and on the early modern French empire. Previously, he spent fourteen years at Johns Hopkins University, including three as Dean of Faculty in its School of Arts and Sciences. From 2020 to 2024 he served as Director of the Shelby Cullom Davis Center for Historical Studies at Princeton. He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a corresponding fellow of the British Academy. Bell's new project is a history of the Enlightenment. A preliminary article from the project was published in early 2022 by Modern Intellectual History. Another is now out in French History.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children. FULL TRANSCRIPTAndrew Keen: Hello everybody, in these supposedly dark times, the E word comes up a lot, the Enlightenment. Are we at the end of the Enlightenment or the beginning? Was there even an Enlightenment? My guest today, David Bell, a professor of history, very distinguished professor of history at Princeton University, has an interesting piece in the spring issue of It is One of our, our favorite quarterlies here on Keen on America, Bell's piece is The Enlightenment Then and Now, and David is joining us from the home of the Enlightenment, perhaps Paris in France, where he's on sabbatical hard life. David being an academic these days, isn't it?David Bell: Very difficult. I'm having to suffer the Parisian bread and croissant. It's terrible.Andrew Keen: Yeah. Well, I won't keep you too long. Is Paris then, or France? Is it the home of the Enlightenment? I know there are many Enlightenments, the French, the Scottish, maybe even the English, perhaps even the American.David Bell: It's certainly one of the homes of the Enlightenment, and it's probably the closest that the Enlightened had to a center, absolutely. But as you say, there were Edinburgh, Glasgow, plenty of places in Germany, Philadelphia, all those places have good claims to being centers of the enlightenment as well.Andrew Keen: All the same David, is it like one of those sports games in California where everyone gets a medal?David Bell: Well, they're different metals, right, but I think certainly Paris is where everybody went. I mean, if you look at the figures from the German Enlightenment, from the Scottish Enlightenment from the American Enlightenment they all tended to congregate in Paris and the Parisians didn't tend to go anywhere else unless they were forced to. So that gives you a pretty good sense of where the most important center was.Andrew Keen: So David, before we get to specifics, map out for us, because everyone is perhaps as familiar or comfortable with the history of the Enlightenment, and certainly as you are. When did it happen? What years? And who are the leaders of this thing called the Enlightenment?David Bell: Well, that's a big question. And I'm afraid, of course, that if you ask 10 historians, you'll get 10 different answers.Andrew Keen: Well, I'm only asking you, so I only want one answer.David Bell: So I would say that the Enlightenment really gets going around the first couple of decades of the 18th century. And that's when people really start to think that they are actually living in what they start to call an Enlightenment century. There are a lot of reasons for this. They are seeing what we now call the scientific revolution. They're looking at the progress that has been made with that. They are experiencing the changes in the religious sphere, including the end of religious wars, coming with a great deal of skepticism about religion. They are living in a relative period of peace where they're able to speculate much more broadly and daringly than before. But it's really in those first couple of decades that they start thinking of themselves as living in an enlightened century. They start defining themselves as something that would later be called the enlightenment. So I would say that it's, really, really there between maybe the end of the 17th century and 1720s that it really gets started.Andrew Keen: So let's have some names, David, of philosophers, I guess. I mean, if those are the right words. I know that there was a term in French. There is a term called philosoph. Were they the founders, the leaders of the Enlightenment?David Bell: Well, there is a... Again, I don't want to descend into academic quibbling here, but there were lots of leaders. Let me give an example, though. So the year 1721 is a remarkable year. So in the year, 1721, two amazing events happened within a couple of months of each other. So in May, Montesquieu, one of the great philosophers by any definition, publishes his novel called Persian Letters. And this is an incredible novel. Still, I think one of greatest novels ever written, and it's very daring. It is the account, it is supposedly a an account written by two Persian travelers to Europe who are writing back to people in Isfahan about what they're seeing. And it is very critical of French society. It is very of religion. It is, as I said, very daring philosophically. It is a product in part of the increasing contact between Europe and the rest of the world that is also very central to the Enlightenment. So that novel comes out. So it's immediately, you know, the police try to suppress it. But they don't have much success because it's incredibly popular and Montesquieu doesn't suffer any particular problems because...Andrew Keen: And the French police have never been the most efficient police force in the world, have they?David Bell: Oh, they could be, but not in this case. And then two months later, after Montesquieu published this novel, there's a German philosopher much less well-known than Montesqiu, than Christian Bolz, who is a professor at the Universität Haller in Prussia, and he gives an oration in Latin, a very typical university oration for the time, about Chinese philosophy, in which he says that the Chinese have sort of proved to the world, particularly through the writings of Confucius and others, that you can have a virtuous society without religion. Obviously very controversial. Statement for the time it actually gets him fired from his job, he has to leave the Kingdom of Prussia within 48 hours on penalty of death, starts an enormous controversy. But here are two events, both of which involving non-European people, involving the way in which Europeans are starting to look out at the rest of the world and starting to imagine Europe as just one part of a larger humanity, and at the same time they are starting to speculate very daringly about whether you can have. You know, what it means to have a society, do you need to have religion in order to have morality in society? Do you need the proper, what kind of government do you need to to have virtuous conduct and a proper society? So all of these things get, you know, really crystallize, I think, around these two incidents as much as anything. So if I had to pick a single date for when the enlightenment starts, I'd probably pick that 1721.Andrew Keen: And when was, David, I thought you were going to tell me about the earthquake in Lisbon, when was that earthquake?David Bell: That earthquake comes quite a bit later. That comes, and now historians should be better with dates than I am. It's in the 1750s, I think it's the late 1750's. Again, this historian is proving he's getting a very bad grade for forgetting the exact date, but it's in 1750. So that's a different kind of event, which sparks off a great deal of commentary, because it's a terrible earthquake. It destroys most of the city of Lisbon, it destroys other cities throughout Portugal, and it leads a lot of the philosophy to philosophers at the time to be speculating very daringly again on whether there is any kind of real purpose to the universe and whether there's any kind divine purpose. Why would such a terrible thing happen? Why would God do such a thing to his followers? And certainly VoltaireAndrew Keen: Yeah, Votav, of course, comes to mind of questioning.David Bell: And Condit, Voltaire's novel Condit gives a very good description of the earthquake in Lisbon and uses that as a centerpiece. Voltair also read other things about the earthquake, a poem about Lisbon earthquake. But in Condit he gives a lasting, very scathing portrait of the Catholic Church in general and then of what happens in Portugal. And so the Lisbon Earthquake is certainly another one of the events, but it happens considerably later. Really in the middle of the end of life.Andrew Keen: So, David, you believe in this idea of the Enlightenment. I take your point that there are more than one Enlightenment in more than one center, but in broad historical terms, the 18th century could be defined at least in Western and Northern Europe as the period of the Enlightenment, would that be a fair generalization?David Bell: I think it's perfectly fair generalization. Of course, there are historians who say that it never happened. There's a conservative British historian, J.C.D. Clark, who published a book last summer, saying that the Enlightenment is a kind of myth, that there was a lot of intellectual activity in Europe, obviously, but that the idea that it formed a coherent Enlightenment was really invented in the 20th century by a bunch of progressive reformers who wanted to claim a kind of venerable and august pedigree for their own reform, liberal reform plans. I think that's an exaggeration. People in the 18th century defined very clearly what was going on, both people who were in favor of it and people who are against it. And while you can, if you look very closely at it, of course it gets a bit fuzzy. Of course it's gets, there's no single, you can't define a single enlightenment project or a single enlightened ideology. But then, I think people would be hard pressed to define any intellectual movement. You know, in perfect, incoherent terms. So the enlightenment is, you know by compared with almost any other intellectual movement certainly existed.Andrew Keen: In terms of a philosophy of the Enlightenment, the German thinker, Immanuel Kant, seems to be often, and when you describe him as the conscience or the brain or a mixture of the conscience and brain of the enlightenment, why is Kant and Kantian thinking so important in the development of the Enlightenment.David Bell: Well, that's a really interesting question. And one reason is because most of the Enlightenment was not very rigorously philosophical. A lot of the major figures of the enlightenment before Kant tended to be writing for a general public. And they often were writing with a very specific agenda. We look at Voltaire, Diderot, Rousseau. Now you look at Adam Smith in Scotland. We look David Hume or Adam Ferguson. You look at Benjamin Franklin in the United States. These people wrote in all sorts of different genres. They wrote in, they wrote all sorts of different kinds of books. They have many different purposes and very few of them did a lot of what we would call rigorous academic philosophy. And Kant was different. Kant was very much an academic philosopher. Kant was nothing if not rigorous. He came at the end of the enlightenment by most people's measure. He wrote these very, very difficult, very rigorous, very brilliant works, such as The Creek of Pure Reason. And so, it's certainly been the case that people who wanted to describe the Enlightenment as a philosophy have tended to look to Kant. So for example, there's a great German philosopher and intellectual historian of the early 20th century named Ernst Kassirer, who had to leave Germany because of the Nazis. And he wrote a great book called The Philosophy of the Enlightened. And that leads directly to Immanuel Kant. And of course, Casir himself was a Kantian, identified with Kant. And so he wanted to make Kant, in a sense, the telos, the end point, the culmination, the fulfillment of the Enlightenment. But so I think that's why Kant has such a particularly important position. You're defining it both ways.Andrew Keen: I've always struggled to understand what Kant was trying to say. I'm certainly not alone there. Might it be fair to say that he was trying to transform the universe and certainly traditional Christian notions into the Enlightenment, so the entire universe, the world, God, whatever that means, that they were all somehow according to Kant enlightened.David Bell: Well, I think that I'm certainly no expert on Immanuel Kant. And I would say that he is trying to, I mean, his major philosophical works are trying to put together a system of philosophical thinking which will justify why people have to act morally, why people act rationally, without the need for Christian revelation to bolster them. That's a very, very crude and reductionist way of putting it, but that's essentially at the heart of it. At the same time, Kant was very much aware of his own place in history. So Kant didn't simply write these very difficult, thick, dense philosophical works. He also wrote things that were more like journalism or like tablets. He wrote a famous essay called What is Enlightenment? And in that, he said that the 18th century was the period in which humankind was simply beginning to. Reach a period of enlightenment. And he said, he starts the essay by saying, this is the period when humankind is being released from its self-imposed tutelage. And we are still, and he said we do not yet live in the midst of a completely enlightened century, but we are getting there. We are living in a century that is enlightening.Andrew Keen: So the seeds, the seeds of Hegel and maybe even Marx are incant in that German thinking, that historical thinking.David Bell: In some ways, in some ways of course Hegel very much reacts against Kant and so and then Marx reacts against Hegel. So it's not exactly.Andrew Keen: Well, that's the dialectic, isn't it, David?David Bell: A simple easy path from one to the other, no, but Hegel is unimaginable without Kant of course and Marx is unimagineable without Hegel.Andrew Keen: You note that Kant represents a shift in some ways into the university and the walls of the universities were going up, and that some of the other figures associated with the the Enlightenment and Scottish Enlightenment, human and Smith and the French Enlightenment Voltaire and the others, they were more generalist writers. Should we be nostalgic for the pre-university period in the Enlightenment, or? Did things start getting serious once the heavyweights, the academic heavyweighs like Emmanuel Kant got into this thing?David Bell: I think it depends on where we're talking about. I mean, Adam Smith was a professor at Glasgow in Edinburgh, so Smith, the Scottish Enlightenment was definitely at least partly in the universities. The German Enlightenment took place very heavily in universities. Christian Vodafoy I just mentioned was the most important German philosopher of the 18th century before Kant, and he had positions in university. Even the French university system, for a while, what's interesting about the French University system, particularly the Sorbonne, which was the theology faculty, It was that. Throughout the first half of the 18th century, there were very vigorous, very interesting philosophical debates going on there, in which the people there, particularly even Jesuits there, were very open to a lot of the ideas we now call enlightenment. They were reading John Locke, they were reading Mel Pench, they were read Dekalb. What happened though in the French universities was that as more daring stuff was getting published elsewhere. Church, the Catholic Church, started to say, all right, these philosophers, these philosophies, these are our enemies, these are people we have to get at. And so at that point, anybody who was in the university, who was still in dialog with these people was basically purged. And the universities became much less interesting after that. But to come back to your question, I do think that I am very nostalgic for that period. I think that the Enlightenment was an extraordinary period, because if you look between. In the 17th century, not all, but a great deal of the most interesting intellectual work is happening in the so-called Republic of Letters. It's happening in Latin language. It is happening on a very small circle of RUD, of scholars. By the 19th century following Kant and Hegel and then the birth of the research university in Germany, which is copied everywhere, philosophy and the most advanced thinking goes back into the university. And the 18th century, particularly in France, I will say, is a time when the most advanced thought is being written for a general public. It is being in the form of novels, of dialogs, of stories, of reference works, and it is very, very accessible. The most profound thought of the West has never been as accessible overall as in the 18 century.Andrew Keen: Again, excuse this question, it might seem a bit naive, but there's a lot of pre-Enlightenment work, books, thinking that we read now that's very accessible from Erasmus and Thomas More to Machiavelli. Why weren't characters like, or are characters like Erasmuus, More's Utopia, Machiavell's prints and discourses, why aren't they considered part of the Enlightenment? What's the difference between? Enlightened thinkers or the supposedly enlightened thinkers of the 18th century and thinkers and writers of the 16th and 17th centuries.David Bell: That's a good question, you know, I think you have to, you, you know, again, one has to draw a line somewhere. That's not a very good answer, of course. All these people that you just mentioned are, in one way or another, predecessors to the Enlightenment. And of course, there were lots of people. I don't mean to say that nobody wrote in an accessible way before 1700. Obviously, lots of the people you mentioned did. Although a lot of them originally wrote in Latin, Erasmus, also Thomas More. But I think what makes the Enlightened different is that you have, again, you have a sense. These people have have a sense that they are themselves engaged in a collective project, that it is a collective project of enlightenment, of enlightening the world. They believe that they live in a century of progress. And there are certain principles. They don't agree on everything by any means. The philosophy of enlightenment is like nothing more than ripping each other to shreds, like any decent group of intellectuals. But that said, they generally did believe That people needed to have freedom of speech. They believed that you needed to have toleration of different religions. They believed in education and the need for a broadly educated public that could be as broad as possible. They generally believed in keeping religion out of the public sphere as much as possible, so all those principles came together into a program that we can consider at least a kind of... You know, not that everybody read it at every moment by any means, but there is an identifiable enlightenment program there, and in this case an identifiable enlightenment mindset. One other thing, I think, which is crucial to the Enlightenment, is that it was the attention they started to pay to something that we now take almost entirely for granted, which is the idea of society. The word society is so entirely ubiquitous, we assume it's always been there, and in one sense it has, because the word societas is a Latin word. But until... The 18th century, the word society generally had a much narrower meaning. It referred to, you know, particular institution most often, like when we talk about the society of, you know, the American philosophical society or something like that. And the idea that there exists something called society, which is the general sphere of human existence that is separate from religion and is separate from the political sphere, that's actually something which only really emerged at the end of the 1600s. And it became really the focus of you know, much, if not most, of enlightenment thinking. When you look at someone like Montesquieu and you look something, somebody like Rousseau or Voltaire or Adam Smith, probably above all, they were concerned with understanding how society works, not how government works only, but how society, what social interactions are like beginning of what we would now call social science. So that's yet another thing that distinguishes the enlightened from people like Machiavelli, often people like Thomas More, and people like bonuses.Andrew Keen: You noted earlier that the idea of progress is somehow baked in, in part, and certainly when it comes to Kant, certainly the French Enlightenment, although, of course, Rousseau challenged that. I'm not sure whether Rousseaut, as always, is both in and out of the Enlightenment and he seems to be in and out of everything. How did the Enlightement, though, make sense of itself in the context of antiquity, as it was, of Terms, it was the Renaissance that supposedly discovered or rediscovered antiquity. How did many of the leading Enlightenment thinkers, writers, how did they think of their own society in the context of not just antiquity, but even the idea of a European or Western society?David Bell: Well, there was a great book, one of the great histories of the Enlightenment was written about more than 50 years ago by the Yale professor named Peter Gay, and the first part of that book was called The Modern Paganism. So it was about the, you know, it was very much about the relationship between the Enlightenment and the ancient Greek synonyms. And certainly the writers of the enlightenment felt a great deal of kinship with the ancient Greek synonymous. They felt a common bond, particularly in the posing. Christianity and opposing what they believed the Christian Church had wrought on Europe in suppressing freedom and suppressing free thought and suppassing free inquiry. And so they felt that they were both recovering but also going beyond antiquity at the same time. And of course they were all, I mean everybody at the time, every single major figure of the Enlightenment, their education consisted in large part of what we would now call classics, right? I mean, there was an educational reformer in France in the 1760s who said, you know, our educational system is great if the purpose is to train Roman centurions, if it's to train modern people who are not doing both so well. And it's true. I mean they would spend, certainly, you know in Germany, in much of Europe, in the Netherlands, even in France, I mean people were trained not simply to read Latin, but to write in Latin. In Germany, university courses took part in the Latin language. So there's an enormous, you know, so they're certainly very, very conversant with the Greek and Roman classics, and they identify with them to a very great extent. Someone like Rousseau, I mean, and many others, and what's his first reading? How did he learn to read by reading Plutarch? In translation, but he learns to read reading Plutach. He sees from the beginning by this enormous admiration for the ancients that we get from Bhutan.Andrew Keen: Was Socrates relevant here? Was the Enlightenment somehow replacing Aristotle with Socrates and making him and his spirit of Enlightenment, of asking questions rather than answering questions, the symbol of a new way of thinking?David Bell: I would say to a certain extent, so I mean, much of the Enlightenment criticizes scholasticism, medieval scholastic, very, very sharply, and medieval scholasticism is founded philosophically very heavily upon Aristotle, so to that extent. And the spirit of skepticism that Socrates embodied, the idea of taking nothing for granted and asking questions about everything, including questions of oneself, yes, absolutely. That said, while the great figures of the Red Plato, you know, Socrates was generally I mean, it was not all that present as they come. But certainly have people with people with red play-doh in the entire virus.Andrew Keen: You mentioned Benjamin Franklin earlier, David. Most of the Enlightenment, of course, seems to be centered in France and Scotland, Germany, England. But America, many Europeans went to America then as a, what some people would call a settler colonial society, or certainly an offshoot of the European world. Was the settling of America and the American Revolution Was it the quintessential Enlightenment project?David Bell: Another very good question, and again, it depends a bit on who you talk to. I just mentioned this book by Peter Gay, and the last part of his book is called The Science of Freedom, and it's all about the American Revolution. So certainly a lot of interpreters of the Enlightenment have said that, yes, the American revolution represents in a sense the best possible outcome of the American Revolution, it was the best, possible outcome of the enlightened. Certainly there you look at the founding fathers of the United States and there's a great deal that they took from me like Certainly, they took a great great number of political ideas from Obviously Madison was very much inspired and drafting the edifice of the Constitution by Montesquieu to see himself Was happy to admit in addition most of the founding Fathers of the united states were you know had kind of you know We still had we were still definitely Christians, but we're also but we were also very much influenced by deism were very much against the idea of making the United States a kind of confessional country where Christianity was dominant. They wanted to believe in the enlightenment principles of free speech, religious toleration and so on and so forth. So in all those senses and very much the gun was probably more inspired than Franklin was somebody who was very conversant with the European Enlightenment. He spent a large part of his life in London. Where he was in contact with figures of the Enlightenment. He also, during the American Revolution, of course, he was mostly in France, where he is vetted by some of the surviving fellows and were very much in contact for them as well. So yes, I would say the American revolution is certainly... And then the American revolutionary scene, of course by the Europeans, very much as a kind of offshoot of the enlightenment. So one of the great books of the late Enlightenment is by Condor Say, which he wrote while he was hiding actually in the future evolution of the chariot. It's called a historical sketch of the progress of the human spirit, or the human mind, and you know he writes about the American Revolution as being, basically owing its existence to being like...Andrew Keen: Franklin is of course an example of your pre-academic enlightenment, a generalist, inventor, scientist, entrepreneur, political thinker. What about the role of science and indeed economics in the Enlightenment? David, we're going to talk of course about the Marxist interpretation, perhaps the Marxist interpretation which sees The Enlightenment is just a euphemism, perhaps, for exploitative capitalism. How central was the growth and development of the market, of economics, and innovation, and capitalism in your reading of The Enlightened?David Bell: Well, in my reading, it was very important, but not in the way that the Marxists used to say. So Friedrich Engels once said that the Enlightenment was basically the idealized kingdom of the bourgeoisie, and there was whole strain of Marxist thinking that followed the assumption that, and then Karl Marx himself argued that the documents like the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, which obviously were inspired by the Enlightment, were simply kind of the near, or kind of. Way that the bourgeoisie was able to advance itself ideologically, and I don't think that holds much water, which is very little indication that any particular economic class motivated the Enlightenment or was using the Enlightment in any way. That said, I think it's very difficult to imagine the Enlightement without the social and economic changes that come in with the 18th century. To begin with globalization. If you read the great works of the Enlightenment, it's remarkable just how open they are to talking about humanity in general. So one of Voltaire's largest works, one of his most important works, is something called Essay on Customs and the Spirit of Nations, which is actually History of the World, where he talks learnedly not simply about Europe, but about the Americas, about China, about Africa, about India. Montesquieu writes Persian letters. Christian Volpe writes about Chinese philosophy. You know, Rousseau writes about... You know, the earliest days of humankind talks about Africa. All the great figures of the Enlightenment are writing about the rest of the world, and this is a period in which contacts between Europe and the rest the world are exploding along with international trade. So by the end of the 18th century, there are 4,000 to 5,000 ships a year crossing the Atlantic. It's an enormous number. And that's one context in which the enlightenment takes place. Another is what we call the consumer revolution. So in the 18th century, certainly in the major cities of Western Europe, people of a wide range of social classes, including even artisans, sort of somewhat wealthy artisians, shopkeepers, are suddenly able to buy a much larger range of products than they were before. They're able to choose how to basically furnish their own lives, if you will, how they're gonna dress, what they're going to eat, what they gonna put on the walls of their apartments and so on and so forth. And so they become accustomed to exercising a great deal more personal choice than their ancestors have done. And the Enlightenment really develops in tandem with this. Most of the great works of the Enlightment, they're not really written to, they're treatises, they're like Kant, they're written to persuade you to think in a single way. Really written to make you ask questions yourself, to force you to ponder things. They're written in the form of puzzles and riddles. Voltaire had a great line there, he wrote that the best kind of books are the books that readers write half of themselves as they read, and that's sort of the quintessence of the Enlightenment as far as I'm concerned.Andrew Keen: Yeah, Voltaire might have been comfortable on YouTube or Facebook. David, you mentioned all those ships going from Europe across the Atlantic. Of course, many of those ships were filled with African slaves. You mentioned this in your piece. I mean, this is no secret, of course. You also mentioned a couple of times Montesquieu's Persian letters. To what extent is... The enlightenment then perhaps the birth of Western power, of Western colonialism, of going to Africa, seizing people, selling them in North America, the French, the English, Dutch colonization of the rest of the world. Of course, later more sophisticated Marxist thinkers from the Frankfurt School, you mentioned these in your essay, Odorno and Horkheimer in particular, See the Enlightenment as... A project, if you like, of Western domination. I remember reading many years ago when I was in graduate school, Edward Said, his analysis of books like The Persian Letters, which is a form of cultural Western power. How much of this is simply bound up in the profound, perhaps, injustice of the Western achievement? And of course, some of the justice as well. We haven't talked about Jefferson, but perhaps in Jefferson's life and his thinking and his enlightened principles and his... Life as a slave owner, these contradictions are most self-evident.David Bell: Well, there are certainly contradictions, and there's certainly... I think what's remarkable, if you think about it, is that if you read through works of the Enlightenment, you would be hard-pressed to find a justification for slavery. You do find a lot of critiques of slavery, and I think that's something very important to keep in mind. Obviously, the chattel slavery of Africans in the Americas began well before the Enlightment, it began in 1500. The Enlightenment doesn't have the credit for being the first movement to oppose slavery. That really goes back to various religious groups, especially the Fakers. But that said, you have in France, you had in Britain, in America even, you'd have a lot of figures associated with the Enlightenment who were pretty sure of becoming very forceful opponents of slavery very early. Now, when it comes to imperialism, that's a tricky issue. What I think you'd find in these light bulbs, you'd different sorts of tendencies and different sorts of writings. So there are certainly a lot of writers of the Enlightenment who are deeply opposed to European authorities. One of the most popular works of the late Enlightenment was a collective work edited by the man named the Abbe Rinal, which is called The History of the Two Indies. And that is a book which is deeply, deeply critical of European imperialism. At the same time, at the same of the enlightenment, a lot the works of history written during the Enlightment. Tended, such as Voltaire's essay on customs, which I just mentioned, tend to give a kind of very linear version of history. They suggest that all societies follow the same path, from sort of primitive savagery, hunter-gatherers, through early agriculture, feudal stages, and on into sort of modern commercial society and civilization. And so they're basically saying, okay, we, the Europeans, are the most advanced. People like the Africans and the Native Americans are the least advanced, and so perhaps we're justified in going and quote, bringing our civilization to them, what later generations would call the civilizing missions, or possibly just, you know, going over and exploiting them because we are stronger and we are more, and again, we are the best. And then there's another thing that the Enlightenment did. The Enlightenment tended to destroy an older Christian view of humankind, which in some ways militated against modern racism. Christians believed, of course, that everyone was the same from Adam and Eve, which meant that there was an essential similarity in the world. And the Enlightenment challenged this by challenging the biblical kind of creation. The Enlightenment challenges this. Voltaire, for instance, believed that there had actually been several different human species that had different origins, and that can very easily become a justification for racism. Buffon, one of the most Figures of the French Enlightenment, one of the early naturalists, was crucial for trying to show that in fact nature is not static, that nature is always changing, that species are changing, including human beings. And so again, that allowed people to think in terms of human beings at different stages of evolution, and perhaps this would be a justification for privileging the more advanced humans over the less advanced. In the 18th century itself, most of these things remain potential, rather than really being acted upon. But in the 19th century, figures of writers who would draw upon these things certainly went much further, and these became justifications for slavery, imperialism, and other things. So again, the Enlightenment is the source of a great deal of stuff here, and you can't simply put it into one box or more.Andrew Keen: You mentioned earlier, David, that Concorda wrote one of the later classics of the... Condorcet? Sorry, Condorcets, excuse my French. Condorcès wrote one the later Classics of the Enlightenment when he was hiding from the French Revolution. In your mind, was the revolution itself the natural conclusion, climax? Perhaps anti-climax of the Enlightenment. Certainly, it seems as if a lot of the critiques of the French Revolution, particularly the more conservative ones, Burke comes to mind, suggested that perhaps the principles of in the Enlightment inevitably led to the guillotine, or is that an unfair way of thinking of it?David Bell: Well, there are a lot of people who have thought like that. Edmund Burke already, writing in 1790, in his reflections on the revolution in France, he said that everything which was great in the old regime is being dissolved and, quoting, dissolved by this new conquering empire of light and reason. And then he said about the French that in the groves of their academy at the end of every vista, you see nothing but the gallows. Nothing but the Gallows. So there, in 1780, he already seemed to be predicting the reign of terror and blaming it. A certain extent from the Enlightenment. That said, I think, you know, again, the French Revolution is incredibly complicated event. I mean, you certainly have, you know, an explosion of what we could call Enlightenment thinking all over the place. In France, it happened in France. What happened there was that you had a, you know, the collapse of an extraordinarily inefficient government and a very, you know, in a very antiquated, paralyzed system of government kind of collapsed, created a kind of political vacuum. Into that vacuum stepped a lot of figures who were definitely readers of the Enlightenment. Oh so um but again the Enlightment had I said I don't think you can call the Enlightement a single thing so to say that the Enlightiment inspired the French Revolution rather than the There you go.Andrew Keen: Although your essay on liberties is the Enlightenment then and now you probably didn't write is always these lazy editors who come up with inaccurate and inaccurate titles. So for you, there is no such thing as the Enlighten.David Bell: No, there is. There is. But still, it's a complex thing. It contains multitudes.Andrew Keen: So it's the Enlightenment rather than the United States.David Bell: Conflicting tendencies, it has contradictions within it. There's enough unity to refer to it as a singular noun, but it doesn't mean that it all went in one single direction.Andrew Keen: But in historical terms, did the failure of the French Revolution, its descent into Robespierre and then Bonaparte, did it mark the end in historical terms a kind of bookend of history? You began in 1720 by 1820. Was the age of the Enlightenment pretty much over?David Bell: I would say yes. I think that, again, one of the things about the French Revolution is that people who are reading these books and they're reading these ideas and they are discussing things really start to act on them in a very different way from what it did before the French revolution. You have a lot of absolute monarchs who are trying to bring certain enlightenment principles to bear in their form of government, but they're not. But it's difficult to talk about a full-fledged attempt to enact a kind of enlightenment program. Certainly a lot of the people in the French Revolution saw themselves as doing that. But as they did it, they ran into reality, I would say. I mean, now Tocqueville, when he writes his old regime in the revolution, talks about how the French philosophes were full of these abstract ideas that were divorced from reality. And while that's an exaggeration, there was a certain truth to them. And as soon as you start having the age of revolutions, as soon you start people having to devise systems of government that will actually last, and as you have people, democratic representative systems that will last, and as they start revising these systems under the pressure of actual events, then you're not simply talking about an intellectual movement anymore, you're talking about something very different. And so I would say that, well, obviously the ideas of the Enlightenment continue to inspire people, the books continue to be read, debated. They lead on to figures like Kant, and as we talked about earlier, Kant leads to Hegel, Hegel leads to Marx in a certain sense. Nonetheless, by the time you're getting into the 19th century, what you have, you know, has connections to the Enlightenment, but can we really still call it the Enlightment? I would sayAndrew Keen: And Tocqueville, of course, found democracy in America. Is democracy itself? I know it's a big question. But is it? Bound up in the Enlightenment. You've written extensively, David, both for liberties and elsewhere on liberalism. Is the promise of democracy, democratic systems, the one born in the American Revolution, promised in the French Revolution, not realized? Are they products of the Enlightment, or is the 19th century and the democratic systems that in the 19th century, is that just a separate historical track?David Bell: Again, I would say there are certain things in the Enlightenment that do lead in that direction. Certainly, I think most figures in the enlightenment in one general sense or another accepted the idea of a kind of general notion of popular sovereignty. It didn't mean that they always felt that this was going to be something that could necessarily be acted upon or implemented in their own day. And they didn't necessarily associate generalized popular sovereignty with what we would now call democracy with people being able to actually govern themselves. Would be certain figures, certainly Diderot and some of his essays, what we saw very much in the social contract, you know, were sketching out, you knows, models for possible democratic system. Condorcet, who actually lived into the French Revolution, wrote one of the most draft constitutions for France, that's one of most democratic documents ever proposed. But of course there were lots of figures in the Enlightenment, Voltaire, and others who actually believed much more in absolute monarchy, who believed that you just, you know, you should have. Freedom of speech and freedom of discussion, out of which the best ideas would emerge, but then you had to give those ideas to the prince who imposed them by poor sicknesses.Andrew Keen: And of course, Rousseau himself, his social contract, some historians have seen that as the foundations of totalitarian, modern totalitarianism. Finally, David, your wonderful essay in Liberties in the spring quarterly 2025 is The Enlightenment, Then and Now. What about now? You work at Princeton, your president has very bravely stood up to the new presidential regime in the United States, in defense of academic intellectual freedom. Does the word and the movement, does it have any relevance in the 2020s, particularly in an age of neo-authoritarianism around the world?David Bell: I think it does. I think we have to be careful about it. I always get a little nervous when people say, well, we should simply go back to the Enlightenment, because the Enlightenments is history. We don't go back the 18th century. I think what we need to do is to recover certain principles, certain ideals from the 18 century, the ones that matter to us, the ones we think are right, and make our own Enlightenment better. I don't think we need be governed by the 18 century. Thomas Paine once said that no generation should necessarily rule over every generation to come, and I think that's probably right. Unfortunately in the United States, we have a constitution which is now essentially unamendable, so we're doomed to live by a constitution largely from the 18th century. But are there many things in the Enlightenment that we should look back to, absolutely?Andrew Keen: Well, David, I am going to free you for your own French Enlightenment. You can go and have some croissant now in your local cafe in Paris. Thank you so much for a very, I excuse the pun, enlightening conversation on the Enlightenment then and now, Essential Essay in Liberties. I'd love to get you back on the show. Talk more history. Thank you. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

After selling his freight company, David Bell didn't retire—he started building something bigger. In this interview, he shares why he walked away, what he learned from the grind, and how CloneOps AI could transform the future of logistics.This episode is sponsored by Epay Manager, Ctrl Chain, and Highway.Interested in sponsoring our podcast? Send us an email at pbj@freightcaviar.com.

AI is being hyped as the magic bullet for supply chains—but what happens when your infrastructure isn't ready to support it? In this episode, Blythe Brumleve chats with David Bell, CEO of Cloneops.ai, about the cold, hard realities of deploying AI in logistics. From unreliable data pipelines to the complexity of nearshoring, David breaks down what's broken, what's fixable, and what's still wildly misunderstood.Whether you're trying to optimize costs or just figure out how to prep your backend systems, this episode delivers the technical insights and strategy talk you didn't know you needed.Key takeaways:Most companies overestimate their AI readiness due to poor data infrastructure.Nearshoring challenges can be solved, but not without multi-tier supply visibility.AI needs structured, reliable, and real-time data to be effective.Cost optimization often breaks down without proper freight data standardization.Internal champions for AI projects must bridge both tech and ops.LINKS:David's LinkedInCloneOps WebsiteCloneOps LogisticsAndrew Silver Interview on The Freight PodWATCH THE FULL EPISODE HEREFeedback? Ideas for a future episode? Shoot us a text here to let us know. -----------------------------------------THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! Are you experienced in freight sales or already an independent freight agent? Listen to our Freight Agent Trenches interview series powered by SPI Logistics to hear from the company's agents on how they took the leap and found a home with SPI freight agent program. CloneOps AI-powered phone operations for inbound and outbound calls with speed, scale, and efficiency. Our virtual agents handle high-volume interactions, automate workflows, and deliver real-time insights, freeing your team to focus on growth. Designed for logistics, retail, and beyond—seamless communication, smarter conversations, faster resolutions. CargoRex – Your Logistics Hub. Explore, discover, and evolve with the all-in-one platform connecting you to the top logistics tools, services, and industry voices. Whether you're a leader, researcher, or creator, CargoRex helps you stay ahead. Explore Now Digital Dispatch maximizes your #1 sales tool with a website that establishes trust and builds rock-solid relationships with your leads and customers. Check out our website services her...

It's a small world. The great David Rieff came to my San Francisco studio today for in person interview about his new anti-woke polemic Desire and Fate. And half way through our conversation, he brought up Daniel Bessner's This Is America piece which Bessner discussed on yesterday's show. I'm not sure what that tells us about wokeness, a subject which Rieff and I aren't in agreement. For him, it's the thing-in-itself which make sense of our current cultural malaise. Thus Desire and Fate, his attempt (with a great intro from John Banville) to wake us up from Wokeness. For me, it's a distraction. I've included the full transcript below. Lots of good stuff to chew on. Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS * Rieff views "woke" ideology as primarily American and post-Protestant in nature, rather than stemming solely from French philosophy, emphasizing its connections to self-invention and subjective identity.* He argues that woke culture threatens high culture but not capitalism, noting that corporations have readily embraced a "baudlerized" version of identity politics that avoids class discussions.* Rieff sees woke culture as connected to the wellness movement, with both sharing a preoccupation with "psychic safety" and the metaphorical transformation of experience in which "words” become a form of “violence."* He suggests young people's material insecurity contributes to their focus on identity, as those facing bleak economic prospects turn inward when they "can't make their way in the world."* Rieff characterizes woke ideology as "apocalyptic but not pessimistic," contrasting it with his own genuine pessimism which he considers more realistic about human nature and more cheerful in its acceptance of life's limitations. FULL TRANSCRIPTAndrew Keen: Hello everybody, as we digest Trump 2.0, we don't talk that much these days about woke and woke ideology. There was a civil war amongst progressives, I think, on the woke front in 2023 and 2024, but with Donald Trump 2.0 and his various escapades, let's just talk these days about woke. We have a new book, however, on the threat of woke by my guest, David Rieff. It's called Desire and Fate. He wrote it in 2023, came out in late 2024. David's visiting the Bay Area. He's an itinerant man traveling from the East Coast to Latin America and Europe. David, welcome to Keen on America. Do you regret writing this book given what's happened in the last few months in the United States?David Rieff: No, not at all, because I think that the road to moral and intellectual hell is trying to censor yourself according to what you think is useful. There's a famous story of Jean Paul Sartre that he said to the stupefaction of a journalist late in his life that he'd always known about the gulag, and the journalist pretty surprised said, well, why didn't you say anything? And Sartre said so as not to demoralize the French working class. And my own view is, you know, you say what you have to say about this and if I give some aid and comfort to people I don't like, well, so be it. Having said that, I also think a lot of these woke ideas have their, for all of Trump's and Trump's people's fierce opposition to woke, some of the identity politics, particularly around Jewish identity seems to me not that very different from woke. Strangely they seem to have taken, for example, there's a lot of the talk about anti-semitism on college campuses involves student safety which is a great woke trope that you feel unsafe and what people mean by that is not literally they're going to get shot or beaten up, they mean that they feel psychically unsafe. It's part of the kind of metaphorization of experience that unfortunately the United States is now completely in the grips of. But the same thing on the other side, people like Barry Weiss, for example, at the Free Press there, they talk in the same language of psychic safety. So I'm not sure there's, I think there are more similarities than either side is comfortable with.Andrew Keen: You describe Woke, David, as a cultural revolution and you associated in the beginning of the book with something called Lumpen-Rousseauism. As we joked before we went live, I'm not sure if there's anything in Rousseau which isn't Lumpen. But what exactly is this cultural revolution? And can we blame it on bad French philosophy or Swiss French?David Rieff: Well, Swiss-French philosophy, you know exactly. There is a funny anecdote, as I'm sure you know, that Rousseau made a visit to Edinburgh to see Hume and there's something in Hume's diaries where he talks about Rousseau pacing up and down in front of the fire and suddenly exclaiming, but David Hume is not a bad man. And Hume notes in his acerbic way, Rousseau was like walking around without his skin on. And I think some of the woke sensitivity stuff is very much people walking around without their skin on. They can't stand the idea of being offended. I don't see it as much - of course, the influence of that version of cultural relativism that the French like Deleuze and Guattari and other people put forward is part of the story, but I actually see it as much more of a post-Protestant thing. This idea, in that sense, some kind of strange combination of maybe some French philosophy, but also of the wellness movement, of this notion that health, including psychic health, was the ultimate good in a secular society. And then the other part, which again, it seems to be more American than French, which is this idea, and this is particularly true in the trans movement, that you can be anything you want to be. And so that if you feel yourself to be a different gender, well, that's who you are. And what matters is your own subjective sense of these things, and it's up to you. The outside world has no say in it, it's what you feel. And that in a sense, what I mean by post-Protestant is that, I mean, what's the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism? The fundamental difference is, it seems to me, that in Roman Catholic tradition, you need the priest to intercede with God, whereas in Protestant tradition, it is, except for the Anglicans, but for most of Protestantism, it's you and God. And in that sense it seems to me there are more of what I see in woke than this notion that some of the right-wing people like Chris Rufo and others have that this is cultural French cultural Marxism making its insidious way through the institutions.Andrew Keen: It's interesting you talk about the Protestant ethic and you mentioned Hume's remark about Rousseau not having his skin on. Do you think that Protestantism enabled people to grow thick skins?David Rieff: I mean, the Calvinist idea certainly did. In fact, there were all these ideas in Protestant culture, at least that's the classical interpretation of deferred gratification. Capitalism was supposed to be the work ethic, all of that stuff that Weber talks about. But I think it got in the modern version. It became something else. It stopped being about those forms of disciplines and started to be about self-invention. And in a sense, there's something very American about that because after all you know it's the Great Gatsby. It's what's the famous sentence of F. Scott Fitzgerald's: there are no second acts in American lives.Andrew Keen: This is the most incorrect thing anyone's ever said about America. I'm not sure if he meant it to be incorrect, did he? I don't know.David Rieff: I think what's true is that you get the American idea, you get to reinvent yourself. And this notion of the dream, the dream become reality. And many years ago when I was spending a lot of time in LA in the late 80s, early 90s, at LAX, there was a sign from the then mayor, Tom Bradley, about how, you know, if you can dream it, it can be true. And I think there's a lot in identitarian woke idea which is that we can - we're not constricted by history or reality. In fact, it's all the present and the future. And so to me again, woke seems to me much more recognizable as something American and by extension post-Protestant in the sense that you see the places where woke is most powerful are in the other, what the encampment kids would call settler colonies, Australia and Canada. And now in the UK of course, where it seems to me by DI or EDI as they call it over there is in many ways stronger in Britain even than it was in the US before Trump.Andrew Keen: Does it really matter though, David? I mean, that's my question. Does it matter? I mean it might matter if you have the good or the bad fortune to teach at a small, expensive liberal arts college. It might matter with some of your dinner parties in Tribeca or here in San Francisco, but for most people, who cares?David Rieff: It doesn't matter. I think it matters to culture and so what you think culture is worth, because a lot of the point of this book was to say there's nothing about woke that threatens capitalism, that threatens the neo-liberal order. I mean it's turning out that Donald Trump is a great deal bigger threat to the neoliberal order. Woke was to the contrary - woke is about talking about everything but class. And so a kind of baudlerized, de-radicalized version of woke became perfectly fine with corporate America. That's why this wonderful old line hard lefty Adolph Reed Jr. says somewhere that woke is about diversifying the ruling class. But I do think it's a threat to high culture because it's about equity. It's about representation. And so elite culture, which I have no shame in proclaiming my loyalty to, can't survive the woke onslaught. And it hasn't, in my view. If you look at just the kinds of books that are being written, the kinds of plays that are been put on, even the opera, the new operas that are being commissioned, they're all about representing the marginalized. They're about speaking for your group, whatever that group is, and doing away with various forms of cultural hierarchy. And I'm with Schoenberg: if it's for everybody, if it's art, Schoenberg said it's not for everybody, and if it's for everybody it's not art. And I think woke destroys that. Woke can live with schlock. I'm sorry, high culture can live with schlock, it always has, it always will. What it can't live with is kitsch. And by which I mean kitsch in Milan Kundera's definition, which is to have opinions that you feel better about yourself for holding. And that I think is inimical to culture. And I think woke is very destructive of those traditions. I mean, in the most obvious sense, it's destructive of the Western tradition, but you know, the high arts in places like Japan or Bengal, I don't think it's any more sympathetic to those things than it is to Shakespeare or John Donne or whatever. So yeah, I think it's a danger in that sense. Is it a danger to the peace of the world? No, of course not.Andrew Keen: Even in cultural terms, as you explain, it is an orthodoxy. If you want to work with the dominant cultural institutions, the newspapers, the universities, the publishing houses, you have to play by those rules, but the great artists, poets, filmmakers, musicians have never done that, so all it provides, I mean you brought up Kundera, all it provides is something that independent artists, creative people will sneer at, will make fun of, as you have in this new book.David Rieff: Well, I hope they'll make fun of it. But on the other hand, I'm an old guy who has the means to sneer. I don't have to please an editor. Someone will publish my books one way or another, whatever ones I have left to write. But if you're 25 years old, maybe you're going to sneer with your pals in the pub, but you're gonna have to toe the line if you want to be published in whatever the obvious mainstream place is and you're going to be attacked on social media. I think a lot of people who are very, young people who are skeptical of this are just so afraid of being attacked by their peers on various social media that they keep quiet. I don't know that it's true that, I'd sort of push back on that. I think non-conformists will out. I hope it's true. But I wonder, I mean, these traditions, once they die, they're very hard to rebuild. And, without going full T.S. Eliot on you, once you don't think you're part of the past, once the idea is that basically, pretty much anything that came before our modern contemporary sense of morality and fairness and right opinion is to be rejected and that, for example, the moral character of the artist should determine whether or not the art should be paid attention to - I don't know how you come back from that or if you come back from that. I'm not convinced you do. No, other arts will be around. And I mean, if I were writing a critical review of my own book, I'd say, look, this culture, this high culture that you, David Rieff, are writing an elegy for, eulogizing or memorializing was going to die anyway, and we're at the beginning of another Gutenbergian epoch, just as Gutenberg, we're sort of 20 years into Marshall McLuhan's Gutenberg galaxy, and these other art forms will come, and they won't be like anything else. And that may be true.Andrew Keen: True, it may be true. In a sense then, to extend that critique, are you going full T.S. Eliot in this book?David Rieff: Yeah, I think Eliot was right. But it's not just Eliot, there are people who would be for the wokesters more acceptable like Mandelstam, for example, who said you're part of a conversation that's been going on long before you were born, that's going to be going on after you are, and I think that's what art is. I think the idea that we make some completely new thing is a childish fantasy. I think you belong to a tradition. There are periods - look, this is, I don't find much writing in English in prose fiction very interesting. I have to say I read the books that people talk about because I'm trying to understand what's going on but it doesn't interest me very much, but again, there have been periods of great mediocrity. Think of a period in the late 17th century in England when probably the best poet was this completely, rightly, justifiably forgotten figure, Colley Cibber. You had the great restoration period and then it all collapsed, so maybe it'll be that way. And also, as I say, maybe it's just as with the print revolution, that this new culture of social media will produce completely different forms. I mean, everything is mortal, not just us, but cultures and civilizations and all the rest of it. So I can imagine that, but this is the time I live in and the tradition I come from and I'm sorry it's gone, and I think what's replacing it is for the most part worse.Andrew Keen: You're critical in the book of what you, I'm quoting here, you talk about going from the grand inquisitor to the grand therapist. But you're very critical of the broader American therapeutic culture of acute sensitivity, the thin skin nature of, I guess, the Rousseau in this, whatever, it's lumpen Rousseauanism. So how do you interpret that without psychologizing, or are you psychologizing in the book? How are you making sense of our condition? In other words, can one critique criticize therapeutic culture without becoming oneself therapeutic?David Rieff: You mean the sort of Pogo line, we've met the enemy and it is us. Well, I suppose there's some truth to that. I don't know how much. I think that woke is in some important sense a subset of the wellness movement. And the wellness movement after all has tens and tens of millions of people who are in one sense or another influenced by it. And I think health, including psychic health, and we've moved from wellness as corporal health to wellness as being both soma and psyche. So, I mean, if that's psychologizing, I certainly think it's drawing the parallel or seeing woke in some ways as one of the children of the god of wellness. And that to me, I don't know how therapeutic that is. I think it's just that once you feel, I'm interested in what people feel. I'm not necessarily so interested in, I mean, I've got lots of opinions, but what I think I'm better at than having opinions is trying to understand why people think what they think. And I do think that once health becomes the ultimate good in a secular society and once death becomes the absolutely unacceptable other, and once you have the idea that there's no real distinction of any great validity between psychic and physical wellness, well then of course sensitivity to everything becomes almost an inevitable reaction.Andrew Keen: I was reading the book and I've been thinking about a lot of movements in America which are trying to bring people together, dealing with America, this divided America, as if it's a marriage in crisis. So some of the most effective or interesting, I think, thinkers on this, like Arlie Hochschild in Berkeley, use the language of therapy to bring or to try to bring America back together, even groups like the Braver Angels. Can therapy have any value or that therapeutic culture in a place like America where people are so bitterly divided, so hateful towards one another?David Rieff: Well, it's always been a country where, on the one hand, people have been, as you say, incredibly good at hatred and also a country of people who often construe themselves as misfits and heretics from the Puritans forward. And on the other hand, you have that small-town American idea, which sometimes I think is as important to woke and DI as as anything else which is that famous saying of small town America of all those years ago which was if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all. And to some extent that is, I think, a very powerful ancestor of these movements. Whether they're making any headway - of course I hope they are, but Hochschild is a very interesting figure, but I don't, it seems to me it's going all the other way, that people are increasingly only talking to each other.Andrew Keen: What this movement seems to want to do is get beyond - I use this word carefully, I'm not sure if they use it but I'm going to use it - ideology and that we're all prisoners of ideology. Is woke ideology or is it a kind of post-ideology?David Rieff: Well, it's a redemptive idea, a restorative idea. It's an idea that in that sense, there's a notion that it's time for the victims, for the first to be last and the last to be first. I mean, on some level, it is as simple as that. On another level, as I say, I do think it has a lot to do with metaphorization of experience, that people say silence is violence and words are violence and at that point what's violence? I mean there is a kind of level to me where people have gotten trapped in the kind of web of their own metaphors and now are living by them or living shackled to them or whatever image you're hoping for. But I don't know what it means to get beyond ideology. What, all men will be brothers, as in the Beethoven-Schiller symphony? I mean, it doesn't seem like that's the way things are going.Andrew Keen: Is the problem then, and I'm thinking out loud here, is the problem politics or not enough politics?David Rieff: Oh, I think the problem is that now we don't know, we've decided that everything is part, the personal is the political, as the feminists said, 50, 60 years ago. So the personal's political, so the political is the personal. So you have to live the exemplary moral life, or at least the life that doesn't offend anybody or that conforms to whatever the dominant views of what good opinions are, right opinions are. I think what we're in right now is much more the realm of kind of a new set of moral codes, much more than ideology in the kind of discrete sense of politics.Andrew Keen: Now let's come back to this idea of being thin-skinned. Why are people so thin-skinned?David Rieff: Because, I mean, there are lots of things to say about that. One thing, of course, that might be worth saying, is that the young generations, people who are between, let's say, 15 and 30, they're in real material trouble. It's gonna be very hard for them to own a house. It's hard for them to be independent and unless the baby boomers like myself will just transfer every penny to them, which doesn't seem very likely frankly, they're going to live considerably worse than generations before. So if you can't make your way in the world then maybe you make your way yourself or you work on yourself in that sort of therapeutic sense. You worry about your own identity because the only place you have in the world in some way is yourself, is that work, that obsession. I do think some of these material questions are important. There's a guy you may know who's not at all woke, a guy who teaches at the University of Washington called Danny Bessner. And I just did a show with him this morning. He's a smart guy and we have a kind of ironic correspondence over email and DM. And I once said to him, why are you so bitter about everything? And he said, you want to know why? Because I have two children and the likelihood is I'll never get a teaching job that won't require a three hour commute in order for me to live anywhere that I can afford to live. And I thought, and he couldn't be further from woke, he's a kind of Jacobin guy, Jacobin Magazine guy, and if he's left at all, it's kind of old left, but I think a lot of people feel that, that they feel their practical future, it looks pretty grim.Andrew Keen: But David, coming back to the idea of art, they're all suited to the world of art. They don't have to buy a big house and live in the suburbs. They can become poets. They can become filmmakers. They can put their stuff up on YouTube. They can record their music online. There are so many possibilities.David Rieff: It's hard to monetize that. Maybe now you're beginning to sound like the people you don't like. Now you're getting to sound like a capitalist.Andrew Keen: So what? Well, I don't care if I sound like a capitalist. You're not going to starve to death.David Rieff: Well, you might not like, I mean, it's fine to be a barista at 24. It's not so fine at 44. And are these people going to ever get out of this thing? I don't know. I wonder. Look, when I was starting as a writer, as long as you were incredibly diligent, and worked really hard, you could cobble together at least a basic living by accepting every assignment and people paid you bits and bobs of money, but put together, you could make a living. Now, the only way to make money, unless you're lucky enough to be on staff of a few remaining media outlets that remain, is you have to become an impresario, you have become an entrepreneur of your own stuff. And again, sure, do lots of people manage that? Yeah, but not as many as could have worked in that other system, and look at the fate of most newspapers, all folding. Look at the universities. We can talk about woke and how woke destroyed, in my view anyway, a lot of the humanities. But there's also a level in which people didn't want to study these things. So we're looking at the last generation in a lot places of a lot of these humanities departments and not just the ones that are associated with, I don't know, white supremacy or the white male past or whatever, but just the humanities full stop. So I know if that sounds like, maybe it sounds like a capitalist, but maybe it also sounds like you know there was a time when the poets - you know very well, poets never made a living, poets taught in universities. That's the way American poets made their money, including pretty famous poets like Eric Wolcott or Joseph Brodsky or writers, Toni Morrison taught at Princeton all those years, Joyce Carol Oates still alive, she still does. Most of these people couldn't make a living of their work and so the university provided that living.Andrew Keen: You mentioned Barry Weiss earlier. She's making a fortune as an anti-woke journalist. And Free Press seems to be thriving. Yascha Mounk's Persuasion is doing pretty well. Andrew Sullivan, another good example, making a fortune off of Substack. It seems as if the people willing to take risks, Barry Weiss leaving the New York Times, Andrew Sullivan leaving everything he's ever joined - that's...David Rieff: Look, are there going to be people who thrive in this new environment? Sure. And Barry Weiss turns out to be this kind of genius entrepreneur. She deserves full credit for that. Although even Barry Weiss, the paradox for me of Barry Weiss is, a lot of her early activism was saying that she felt unsafe with these anti-Israeli teachers at Columbia. So in a sense, she was using some of the same language as the woke use, psychic safety, because she didn't mean Joseph Massad was gonna come out from the blackboard and shoot her in the eye. She meant that she was offended and used the language of safety to describe that. And so in that sense, again, as I was saying to you earlier, I think there are more similarities here. And Trump, I think this is a genuine counterrevolution that Trump is trying to mount. I'm not very interested in the fascism, non-fascism debate. I'm rather skeptical of it.Andrew Keen: As Danny Bessner is. Yeah, I thought Danny's piece about that was brilliant.David Rieff: We just did a show about it today, that piece about why that's all rubbish. I was tempted, I wrote to a friend that guy you may know David Bell teaches French history -Andrew Keen: He's coming on the show next week. Well, you see, it's just a little community of like-minded people.David Rieff: There you go. Well, I wrote to David.Andrew Keen: And you mentioned his father in the book, Daniel.David Rieff: Yeah, well, his father is sort of one of the tutelary idols of the book. I had his father and I read his father and I learned an enormous amount. I think that book about the cultural contradictions of capitalism is one of the great prescient books about our times. But I wrote to David, I said, I actually sent him the Bessner piece which he was quite ambivalent about. But I said well, I'm not really convinced by the fascism of Trump, maybe just because Hitler read books, unlike Donald Trump. But it's a genuine counterrevolution. And what element will change the landscape in terms of DI and woke and identitarianism is not clear. These people are incredibly ambitious. They really mean to change this country, transform it.Andrew Keen: But from the book, David, Trump's attempts to cleanse, if that's the right word, the university, I would have thought you'd have rather admired that, all these-David Rieff: I agree with some of it.Andrew Keen: All these idiots writing the same article for 30 years about something that no one has any interest in.David Rieff: I look, my problem with Trump is that I do support a lot of that. I think some of the stuff that Christopher Rufo, one of the leading ideologues of this administration has uncovered about university programs and all of this crap, I think it's great that they're not paying for it anymore. The trouble is - you asked me before, is it that important? Is culture important compared to destroying the NATO alliance, blowing up the global trade regime? No. I don't think. So yeah, I like a lot of what they're doing about the university, I don't like, and I am very fiercely opposed to this crackdown on speech. That seems to be grotesque and revolting, but are they canceling supporting transgender theater in Galway? Yeah, I think it's great that they're canceling all that stuff. And so I'm not, that's my problem with Trump, is that some of that stuff I'm quite unashamedly happy about, but it's not nearly worth all the damage he's doing to this country and the world.Andrew Keen: Being very generous with your time, David. Finally, in the book you describe woke as, and I thought this was a very sharp way of describing it, describe it as being apocalyptic but not pessimistic. What did you mean by that? And then what is the opposite of woke? Would it be not apocalyptic, but cheerful?David Rieff: Well, I think genuine pessimists are cheerful, I would put myself among those. The model is Samuel Beckett, who just thinks things are so horrible that why not be cheerful about them, and even express one's pessimism in a relatively cheerful way. You remember the famous story that Thomas McCarthy used to tell about walking in the Luxembourg Gardens with Beckett and McCarthy says to him, great day, it's such a beautiful day, Sam. Beckett says, yeah, beautiful day. McCarthy says, makes you glad to be alive. And Beckett said, oh, I wouldn't go that far. And so, the genuine pessimist is quite cheerful. But coming back to woke, it's apocalyptic in the sense that everything is always at stake. But somehow it's also got this reformist idea that cultural revolution will cleanse away the sins of the supremacist patriarchal past and we'll head for the sunny uplands. I think I'm much too much of a pessimist to think that's possible in any regime, let alone this rather primitive cultural revolution called woke.Andrew Keen: But what would the opposite be?David Rieff: The opposite would be probably some sense that the best we're going to do is make our peace with the trash nature of existence, that life is finite in contrast with the wellness people who probably have a tendency towards the apocalyptic because death is an insult to them. So everything is staving off the bad news and that's where you get this idea that you can, like a lot of revolutions, you can change the nature of people. Look, the communist, Che Guevara talked about the new man. Well, I wonder if he thought it was so new when he was in Bolivia. I think these are - people need utopias, this is one of them, MAGA is another utopia by the way, and people don't seem to be able to do without them and that's - I wish it were otherwise but it isn't.Andrew Keen: I'm guessing the woke people would be offended by the idea of death, are they?David Rieff: Well, I think the woke people, in this synchronicity, people and a lot of people, they're insulted - how can this happen to me, wonderful me? And this is those jokes in the old days when the British could still be savage before they had to have, you know, Henry the Fifth be played by a black actor - why me? Well, why not you? That's just so alien to and it's probably alien to the American idea. You're supposed to - it's supposed to work out and the truth is it doesn't work out. But La Rochefoucauld says somewhere no one can stare for too long at death or the sun and maybe I'm asking too much.Andrew Keen: Maybe only Americans can find death unacceptable to use one of your words.David Rieff: Yes, perhaps.Andrew Keen: Well, David Rieff, congratulations on the new book. Fascinating, troubling, controversial as always. Desire and Fate. I know you're writing a book about Oppenheimer, very different kind of subject. We'll get you back on the show to talk Oppenheimer, where I guess there's not going to be a lot of Lumpen-Rousseauism.David Rieff: Very little, very little love and Rousseau in the quantum mechanics world, but thanks for having me.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

BSens head coach David Bell on their playoff push, Mads Sogaard on a one-way contract next season and texts.

BSens head coach David Bell on their playoff chase, offense drying up, pushing his group down the stretch, impact of Zack MacEwen and no help coming from the Junior level.

Ryan Schreiber and Joe Lynch discuss I don't know who needs to hear this but... Ryan is the Chief Growth Officer at Metafora, the leading business consulting and software development firm that exclusively serves the Transportation, Logistics and Supply Chain space. About Ryan Schreiber Ryan Schreiber is the Chief Growth Officer at Metafora. Ryan was born and raised in Tampa, Florida. Ryan earned a degree in History from the University of South Florida and then a Law degree from Michigan State University.  Prior to joining Metafora, Ryan worked at a variety of logistics companies and even started and exited a few tech-enabled freight brokerage start-ups. Ryan is a skilled technologist and strategist who has helped transform many leading transportation and logistics companies. In Ryan's experience, great technology is important, but finding and keeping the right people is the key to success in the 3PL business. About Metafora Metafora, previously “CarrierDirect”, is the leading business consulting and software development firm that exclusively serves the Transportation, Logistics and Supply Chain space. They partner with carriers, shippers, and freight tech vendors to help them optimize their business and build software to fuel their growth. Welcome to the new way forward. Welcome to Metafora. Key Takeaways: I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This But... "I Don't Know Who Needs to Hear This But...": Straight Talk on Logistics: Joe and Ryan discuss critical logistics topics, mirroring Ryan's popular LinkedIn posts that begin with "I don't know who needs to hear this but..." The discussion covers crucial insights on freight pricing, the realities of the current market, and how external factors can impact sales, delivering essential advice to those navigating the industry's challenges. Metafora is a management consulting and custom software development firm specializing in the logistics and transportation industries. Metafora offers different services: Technology Consulting: Assisting clients in selecting, developing, and adopting technology solutions that align with their business objectives. Tech-enabled Services: Providing turnkey, enterprise-level delivery solutions to minimize costs and enhance performance. M&A Support: Evaluating potential acquisition targets and supporting their integration and growth. Business Consulting: Aligning business processes and technology with data-driven strategies to transform supply chains into strategic assets. Metafora primarily serves third-party logistics providers (3PLs), carriers, shippers, and freight tech companies, aiming to drive efficiency and profitability in transportation and logistics operations. The company has collaborated with industry leaders such as FedEx Freight, Mitsubishi Corporation, and J.B. Hunt, providing expertise in technology strategy and implementation. Metafora is committed to empowering organizations to make data-driven decisions, fostering collaboration and innovation among professionals in the transportation and logistics sectors. Learn More About I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This But... Ryan Schreiber | Linkedin Metafora LinkedIn Metafora website Metafora Services The Metafora Story with Peter Rentschler The Competitive Advantage with David Bell and Peter Rentschler 3 Freight Trends to Watch with Ryan Schreiber Navigating the Roller Coaster Freight Market with Ryan Schreiber The Logistics of Logistics Podcast If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a positive review, subscribe, and share it with your friends and colleagues. The Logistics of Logistics Podcast: Google, Apple, Castbox, Spotify, Stitcher, PlayerFM, Tunein, Podbean, Owltail, Libsyn, Overcast Check out The Logistics of Logistics on Youtube

 ALPS CEO David Bell discusses navigating the 2020 pandemic, embracing change, fostering a resilient company culture, and exciting future initiatives in an insightful conversation with Rio Laine. This is the first in our new quarterly thought leadership series, ALPS In Brief: The Deep Think.   — Transcript:  Rio Laine:  Hello and welcome. I'm Rio Laine, the Bar Partnership Strategist at ALPS Insurance. And today I have a chance to sit down with our CEO and fearless leader, David Bell, and we'll be talking about what's happening at ALPS, how the last year has gone, our vision moving forward, and also talk about how far we've come since the 2020 pandemic. Hello, David. Welcome.  David Bell:  Thank you, Rio, for having me on.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, thanks for joining me. It's always a pleasure to get a chance to sit down and talk with you.  David Bell:  For me too. I look forward to the conversation.  Rio Laine:  100%. Fabulous. So do you want to take a minute, David, to just tell the audience a bit about yourself, how you came to be at ALPS, a little bit about your background.  David Bell:  Sure. Well, I've been in the insurance industry my entire career since college. I joined Chubb Insurance and was with Chubb for a number of years. And then in the wake of 9/11, Chubb AIG and Goldman Sachs Capital Partners formed a joint venture, and I went with Chubb's Capital to help start at an organization called Allied World, AWAC. And so over the course of a decade living in Bermuda, we built that business up, ultimately took it public.  And then skipping a few chapters of this book, ultimately, my wife and I decided to come back to Montana where we first met three decades ago, where she is originally from and where we both went to college. And coming back to Montana, I had the opportunity to take the helm at ALPS. And it has been a true blessing for a dozen years to work alongside the men and women at ALPS and doing what we're going to talk about today.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so you've been at the helm of ALPS for about 12 years now. And during that time it seems that you've steered the company through a lot of really exciting changes and transitions and also perhaps some uncertainty, probably most notably like the 2020 pandemic. I think we can all agree that was a very interesting time all around.  So I'd like to start with talking about the years since the pandemic and the last time we sat down with you, which was in 2020. Now, obviously ALPS is still here and thriving, but I'm curious to know what is something that you feel that you could point to that was the most important factor in helping us navigate that time and also what was something that helped our insureds navigate that time as well?  David Bell:  The pandemic time?  Rio Laine:  Yes.  David Bell:  Certainly just solidarity. I think as a country we came together, as a world, in a lot of cases, we came together. And at ALPS, that was particularly true. To be fair, ALPS has employees in a dozen states, but the nucleus of the organization is in the home office in Missoula, Montana. And Montana did not have a number of the challenges that the larger cities had, particularly with population density.  When you have a global pandemic and airborne transmittable viruses, not having the same type of population density did help us. But everybody at ALPS really rose to the occasion. Our technology was ready to allow people to be working remotely. We were also able to bring people back into the office much, much earlier than I think larger cities were able to do.  But most importantly, I think people rose to the occasion. They understood that they had the need to balance the challenges and the opportunities that they had confronted at home, and then also the responsibilities that we continued to have at the office. And I was so proud of everybody. It was week by week.  We were intensely communicative, always together, always talking about what our objectives were, people socializing what some of their challenges were, whether they were uniquely related to the pandemic or just in general. And I think we worked through those, and I think we taught ourselves a lot of valuable lessons during the time of the pandemic that have proven very useful in the months and years that have followed.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. What is a lesson that comes to mind that you feel was maybe an important one for you as CEO of ALPS? Was there something that you learned that maybe you didn't expect to learn or that really helped you guide the company through?  David Bell:  Sure. Well, I think one of the most critical ingredients for any organization is for it to evolve and improve. And that requires change. And people, humans are just change resistant. It's in our nature. We love what we're familiar with. And what the pandemic did was it forced all of us into a period of change. And so as we were able to adjust to those changes and in many cases, adopt new technologies and processes, I think it opened people's minds to doing things differently.  And we were able to leverage that in the years that have followed the pandemic to constantly revisit the way we do things, to bring more and more efficiencies, to make the customer experience better, easier, faster, to make the experience of being an employee better and the experience of being an employer from a managerial and overall organizational perspective better as well.  And so the pandemic was incredibly difficult. But like most tragedies, most challenges, there are silver linings. And I think there were a number of silver linings for us coming out of the pandemic that have allowed ALPS to succeed even more than we would have frankly, had we not all endured that challenging time together.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that time really inspired people to become very resilient and push themselves to do things and accept realities that maybe they couldn't have been able to before or were less willing to, particularly with adopting new technologies and things. So do you think that our ability to adjust and adopt that change supported our insureds through that time as well?  David Bell:  I do, yes. I think by committing ourselves to allowing our insureds to keep their policies and keep them timely and seamless, and also our insureds were having a lot of structural changes forced upon them from the pandemic. They were generally not working in the office. And so the exercise that they had historically gone through for years related to their malpractice and other insurance coverages was done in the office and through a certain process in the office.  That needed to be overnight and without warning changed to being done from home. Some of them relocated, some permanently, some of them went on the move and started to become a mobile lawyer. And so we needed to adopt our processes to accommodate all of the various iterations that our policyholders had to undertake. And I think by doing that, it also prepared us to just be more adaptable in general and things unrelated to COVID contingency plans.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like that's a really good thing for us to carry forward is that adaptability.  David Bell:  Yes. And as you said, I think resiliency was a critical ingredient. I think a lot of us, and this is probably a general observation as well, the pandemic acquainted us with fear in ways that I think a lot of people had not really been acquainted with before. And it taught us a lot about ourselves, some great and some not so great, but we all learned from the experiences no matter which side of the ledger it rests.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that was a very shared collective experience, feeling that fear and uncertainty. And despite there being a lot of maybe tension at times, I think we all came through that having experienced something that, I mean, arguably changed us, but also made us stronger as a result.  David Bell:  And when a team endures a challenge together, whether that team is a company or a country or humanity, we do come out the other end of it with a better sense of resiliency and camaraderie. And so there's a lot of things to worry about in the future, but there's also a lot of things to celebrate and take comfort in.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, I've been at ALPS now for about a year and a half, and I will say that the camaraderie and that kind of team element that I feel at the company, it's very obvious that everybody is really, I guess, happy to be working together and it has maybe come through a difficult thing and are stronger because of it. And so I feel like that really permeates and is very obvious too when I think about working at ALPS and also how our customers see our dynamic and how we approach things now.  David Bell:  Absolutely. I mean, in my role playing a part of the equation of trying to create and help foster a certain type of intentional company culture, making sure that people feel safe and heard is really the only path to give people that will allow them to unleash their own sense of creativity. If they don't feel valued and heard and they don't feel safe as though...  In some organizations, unfortunately, people are constantly not sharing their thoughts and their ideas for fear that they will be rejected or that it will put somebody off or whatever. I think one thing that we've really tried to do, and we're not perfect in this or anything else, but I think we have been largely successful is assuring people that as a company and that for the people around everyone else, we are for you and we want you to participate in helping make us better.  And you're heard. It doesn't mean that we adopt everybody's ideas. That's not realistic. But if people feel they've genuinely been heard and that their idea has been genuinely considered, there's a real sense of teamwork that goes into that.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that has certainly been my experience. It's quite refreshing actually to be able to be given the space to have an idea and also to be wrong and it's not the end of the world, right? It's like, yeah, because you tried and it could be great, and maybe it's not, but the fact is that there's space to try. It's an important part of culture, I think.  David Bell:  Absolutely. And culturally, we're a risk-taking organization. Any organization should be comfortable permitting people to experiment with ideas, spend time, spend money, and make mistakes. And what we do is try to make our mistakes original and not repetitive, but only through those iterative processes of trying, failing, trying again, improving do we come out with some of the great ideas.  Almost none of the cool things that we have going on at ALPS right now were top-down edicts. They were bottom-up, organically drawn ideas that started out with experiments. They were in the company of a bunch that ended up in the dustbin, but the good ones emerge. And that's I think how an organization thrives and I'm really proud to just be a part of that kind of ecosystem.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. So let's shift our focus and talk about some of those cool things that are happening at ALPS. So what are some of the initiatives that are going on that you are excited about personally for the next upcoming year or two?  David Bell:  Sure. Well, we've transitioned our positioning. It's less of a transition of what we do and more of a transition of how we are intentionally portraying ourselves to our customer base. Traditionally, ALPS has been known as the largest direct lawyers malpractice carrier in the country. And we were and are and will remain that. But what we also are is the largest retail broker for solo practitioners and one of the largest retail brokers for law firms in general in the country.  And that makes us a more holistic solution provider, both to place the lawyers malpractice policy many times very often with ALPS, sometimes for various reasons not with ALPS, but we have the capacity to place it with whatever carrier is the best fit for whatever reason, even if that's not ALPS.  And then there are also a lot of other coverages that law firms need, some of which they currently buy and are increasingly interested in buying through us, workers' compensation, general liability, non-owned auto, BOPs, business insurance policies. And so those are all coverage lines that we can help place for them, thereby becoming the holistic solution provider for all risk transfer products for a small firm.  It can seem subtle, but it's not really how we've branded ourselves externally for the more than three decades that we have been a direct carrier. So I think that is a really exciting evolution that makes us much more of a comprehensive partner for our firms. There's a lot of things that I'm excited about, but that's one of the most important structural evolutions that are occurring right now.  Rio Laine:  Right. And can you just tell me a little bit about how being able to be that holistic provider is a good thing for our insureds? How is that really supporting them in running their law firms?  David Bell:  Sure. Well, first and foremost, there are lots of great insurance agents and brokers all around the country. The vast majority of them, they do a whole bunch of different type of industries and a whole myriad of different types of coverages. And a lot of them are jack of all trades and master of none. And that's not a bad thing because they serve a lot of different industry verticals.  This is all we do. All we do is law firms and small ones in particular, but really firms in general. Nobody knows the needs, the challenges, what's on the horizon for law firms like ALPS does. One of the value propositions that we bring is a really deep understanding to what type of risk transfer, risk mitigation tactics and insurance policies they need.  What we find oftentimes is as we discuss with a firm, whether it's a solo practitioner or a five or 10 person firm, when we discuss with them what type of insurance needs they should consider based on the very specific profile of where they are, how large they are, the type of coverages, type of areas of practice that they're engaging in, it's oftentimes revealed that what they have is not ideally what they should have, and it's not what their peer group is generally buying.  And so that helps inform them to make the decision on whether or not or to what extent they want to expand it. And then we bring not just the institutional expertise of this profession, of this industry, but we bring a steadfast commitment to ease. Our mantra is easy. We want to take the unnecessary friction out of the insurance purchasing process.  The operational process of buying an insurance policy has been largely unchanged for a hundred years, save PDF emails that might be a little bit more recent, but those are all deeply in need of evolving. And we've brought some of the most technologically sophisticated processes to our customers that helps them appreciate that we understand that time is literally money for small firms. And any hour spent working on this is one less billable hour they can spend serving their own customers. So we are committed to that approach.  Rio Laine:  And it sounds like we're really well-placed to support particularly solo and small firms because they obviously have limited resources, but that we're really well-placed to be able to advise them on the type of coverage they need so then they can in fact just step away and it's covered. They don't have to worry. If there's an issue, it will be dealt with. But otherwise, they can focus on running their practice.  David Bell:  That's right. I think one mistake that many brokers and agents make is an overgeneralization of solo practitioners. They see a solo as a solo as a solo. And we see if we've met one solo, we've met one solo. They're very different. And with those differences really necessitates different types of approaches to a certain type of insurance and different types of insurance that they should consider.  It doesn't have to be a complicated process, but you really need a partner who understands and can simplify that for you. And that's the value that we bring, which is why we ensure so many thousands, so many tens of thousands of solos all across the country from coast to coast.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I suspect they all really appreciate that viewing them as unique individuals. I mean, I don't know, I like to say that law firms are kind of like snowflakes. They're all unique. And it's very nuanced. Their needs are all different. So yeah, I think that's a really excellent way that we're able to support them.  David Bell:  Absolutely. And there are profiles of solo practitioners and firms in general that inform the type of risk experiences that other firms from all around the country have had. And when you have a company like ALPS that only does law firms and focuses so steadfastly on solos, we can help a lot of firms see around the corner by sharing experiences that their contemporaries have had locally or in states far away that can help them mitigate the risk that they might have by learning from the experiences that other firms have had in other places. You can only do that if you have a pretty significant portfolio of the same type of risk that can arm us to share that information.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Again, I feel like any leg up is a good thing for a solo. Absolutely. Okay, we've talked about some of the exciting things that have been going on or shift to being more of an agency model. Let's switch it up and talk about some of the challenges that maybe we've had in the past year or so.  David Bell:  Sure. I'd say for us, the biggest challenge that we have is a byproduct of the biggest opportunity that we have. We are America's solo solution. We are America's solo insurance company. There is a other edge of the sword for an insurance company as it relates to solo practitioners, and it's really as follows. If you go to medical school, you're probably going to be a doctor.  And when you end that lengthy expensive experience, you're probably going to employ, probably, that medical degree to become a physician, and that will be your profession for your career. A law degree is much more versatile. It's highly portable into areas that are very different from the private practice of law. And so what we find, and this is particularly true in the solo practitioner community, nowhere else more true than the solo practitioner community, is what we label the leading private practice.  People who are solos and for one reason or another elect to no longer be a private practice solo practitioner. They join a school board. We have lots of our policyholders become judges, interestingly enough. There's a lot of different places that they go. None of them are bad. But for the broader insurance index, you can lose a piece of business because they retire or because a competitor has taken them. Just to put some data behind it, at least on a historical basis, our loss business for a policyholder having left private practice is two and a half times the rate of retirements.  Rio Laine:  Oh, wow!  David Bell:  Now, that has started to compress a little bit over the past year or two as the baby boomer generation moves further and further along. But the transient nature of solo practitioners is a significant operational challenge because these policies are low premium, and so they're very operationally intensive.  And our need to bring ease to the customer experience also is a need for us to bring operational efficiency into the approaches. So that is a significant challenge. We spent a lot of time, we spent a lot of money, we built a lot of technology to try to wrestle with that dynamic in this profession.  Rio Laine:  Yes, absolutely. That's a really interesting challenge because it seems like it's made up of a lot of different factors too that influence that and how much of a challenge it can be.  David Bell:  That's right. Being a solo practitioner is hard, and it's not for everyone. And it's not uncommon for folks to go into the profession and then go out. But what we can also do in having journeyed with so many different solos through that experience, we can help share best practices that will better empower a solo to be successful and to take some of the challenge and risk out of that experience. And if we can help tamp down the transient nature of people leaving the profession even just a little bit, then it's a win for us.  Rio Laine:  Well, absolutely. And if anything, it's also a win for not just the legal profession, but consumers, people needing legal services, because there is a major gap in access to justice and a lot of that has to do with people leaving private practice in rural communities, et cetera. So yeah, I do agree with you. I mean, being able to provide that kind of support, particularly to a solo who we know tend to be quite isolated, they tend to feel quite alone in their struggles and their challenges, I think that's a win for everybody really it seems like.  David Bell:  Absolutely.  Rio Laine:  So we've reflected on the past five years, we've talked about this year what our challenges were, what some of the things we're excited about. So is there anything else in this coming year that you are particularly looking forward to that you feel is going to be an interesting challenge for us to navigate? Tell me what your thoughts are for the next couple of years where you see things going, where you'd like them to go even.  David Bell:  Sure. Well, we have grown the business doing what we've done historically, but doing it better and better each year. It's really been satisfying to be a part of a team as you're refining your skill and you're trying to be better. And in the process of being better, you're becoming more successful. And being more successful, at least as I measure it, is in the terms of the role that I have in the organization and the success measurement for the organization overall.  There are external metrics for that. I mean, we have new endorsements that have come online that are exciting. Because when an endorsement comes, then those endorsements are leveraged for success in the future, whether it's the Federal Bar endorsement, whether it's GIRL ATTORNEY, a 37,000 strong network of female legal practitioners, and those aren't the only ones.  Those are just recent endorsements to add to the repertoire of so many state and regional endorsements that we enjoy from state bars all over the country, regional bars, affiliate bars. So I think those create an exciting environment. And they also double down on external validation of the ALPS value proposition because bars that endorse us generally don't unendorse us.  And they aren't endorsing us for the money, they're endorsing us for the partnership and because we're mutually aligned. Also, one of the external validations that I think is so critical is our Trustpilot reviews. Trustpilot as a disinterested third party that sends a survey inquiring about the experience and is trusted nationwide and not just in this industry, in certainly all industries. And we have at this point, thousands of Trustpilot reviews.  And one of the favorite parts of my job is to see the... It's not just the rating. So many of our policyholders take the time to specifically comment, call out the name of their account manager or their business development representative, and reflect on how easy they made this experience and how refreshing it is, particularly for our new customers to have moved from the experience that they had been having into the ease of the experience and the knowledge and the experience that they're having with us.  That's great. The other side is internal validation because we serve customers, prospects, and we especially serve policyholders, but we also serve employees because we are an employer. In 2024, we won again a statewide employer of choice, Employer of the Year Award, that is not industry specific. It's across all line. We've won those from an industry perspective nationally.  We've won them from a local community perspective, and now we've won it from a state process. Again, those are done through anonymous surveys of staff. They do really provide a pretty accurate metric of how your staff feels and how they feel valued and how much they trust and enjoy the experience that they have working for the company. I think that's validating and it helps prepare us to launch into the success for 2025 as well.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like it must feel good for you to see that feedback and know that you're on the right track because employees are happy and coming up with good solutions for customers. I feel like that would be a good thing to see.  David Bell:  Absolutely. I mean, culture building, culture maintenance is beyond just ensuring the financial health of the organization, and that we have the financial strength to fulfill the promises that we're making. I mean, that's one of certainly my core responsibilities, but a very... I don't know if I call it close second. It's probably an even because you can't do any of that well unless you have a vibrant, healthy culture.  People ask about corporate culture. It's almost kind of a cliche at this point because it's bantered about so much. And I say to a lot of people, you can have statements about the ethos or the company cultures, values, and those are great, and we have those. And it's important to have them, and it's important to constantly remind yourself and others what they are, but they can lull you into a false sense of security if they're not being practiced.  Rio Laine:  Absolutely.  David Bell:  And so what I tell folks is, if you want to really get a sense of the company culture at ALPS, just walk around the office, observe how people are engaging with one another. You can tell whether two people are talking purely business. You can tell in the inflection in their voice and their way that they're carrying themselves that there's trust between the two people.  You can tell whether they enjoy being around one another. I think you can have a better, more successful professional experience from your employees if you create an environment where they enjoy being around the people who they work with, they trust the people who they work with, and they trust the leadership who they work for and the messages that they're hearing.  If there's one key ingredient to how we've been as successful as we've been, it's that. Because all of the other stuff, including the financial success, flows downriver from that. That is, I think, the headwaters of our success and I think organization success in general.  Rio Laine:  Well said, David. I would agree with you. Well, this has been a fantastic chat. So is there anything as we wrap up that you would like to share you'd like our audience to know? Any parting words of advice you'd like to offer?  David Bell:  I think you asked about solos in particular, and we serve law firms of all shapes and sizes, but we are America's solo solution provider. And I think what's interesting is we really understand solos in what might broadly be called their three stages of life. The dawn of the solo. It's amazing how many calls we field from people who are in a multi-member firm and considering going out on their own or with somebody else to be a one or two person firm, and they just don't know.  They've had an office manager who is taking care of them out practice. They have no idea what it costs. They have no idea some of the basic elements of setting up a law firm, from law practice management software to renting space. We've become very consultative to that group of folks. Because if you don't know how to be a solo, even if you've been an incredibly successful member of a multi-attorney firm, we can help do that. That's kind of like the dawn of the solo.  And then when solo is in its prime, that's where we're providing that expertise and ease to make sure that you have not only your malpractice, but all of your other business insurance coverages in there. And then there is the twilight of a professional life, and we are seeing that more and more as the baby boomers increasingly transition towards retirement. I mean, the demographics of the legal profession is not unlike the broader labor force demographics.  And there are a lot of people who are at and approaching retirement age and how a small firm or solo practitioner winds down their practice is really important. And so we're here for the entire life cycle of a solo practitioner, and I think that's one of the things that makes us so uniquely focused as being America's choice for solo practitioners.  Rio Laine:  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Wonderful. Thanks so much, David. That was really great to sit down and chat with you and get to learn about all the great things we have going on at ALPS. And yeah, I hope that our audience enjoys the rest of their day and enjoyed our conversation.  David Bell:  Thank you, Rio. I appreciate the questions. I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation. Look forward to another one.  Rio Laine:  Yes, absolutely. Me too.   

Michael, Abe, and Dave sit down with the classic Airplane! (1980) to discuss the longevity, jokes per minute, and type of comedy you see in the film that was once voted “funniest movie of all time” by someone somewhere, I don't know. Features: David Bell: https://bsky.app/profile/moviehooligan.bsky.social Michael Swaim: https://bsky.app/profile/michaelswaim.bsky.social Abe Epperson: https://bsky.app/profile/abeepp.bsky.social Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691

BSens head coach David Bell on managing a 3-in-3 weekend, battling for a playoff spot, Stephen Halliday getting called up, Jan Jenik and Tyler Boucher back and healthy and Mads Sogaard back at practice today.

TGL, Dylan Cozens returns to Buffalo, Sens Dads trip and BSens head coach David Bell.

In this episode, we dive in the world of AI-powered phone operations. Our guest, David Bell, CEO and Founder of CloneOps breaks down how AI can be integrated into basic phone conversations and how to speed up some back office processes to improve efficiency and free up more time in the day. For more information subscribe to Check Call the newsletter or the podcast. Follow the Check Call Podcast Other FreightWaves Shows Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we dive in the world of AI-powered phone operations. Our guest, David Bell, CEO and Founder of CloneOps breaks down how AI can be integrated into basic phone conversations and how to speed up some back office processes to improve efficiency and free up more time in the day. For more information subscribe to Check Call the newsletter or the podcast. Follow the Check Call Podcast Other FreightWaves Shows Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

JR is joined by David Bell, he and Kenny recap the Sens game and wrap up the show for the day.

JR is joined by Belleville Senators head coach David Bell to discuss the week that was for the B-Sens following a road trip, they discuss the impact that the NHL trade deadline has on the AHL affiliate and what lays ahead for Belleville.

It's a toxic debate that has seen leading academics and feminists cancelled: how to treat children distressed about their gender.Retired psychiatrist Dr David Bell spent 25 years at the now-closed Tavistock and faced intense backlash for raising concerns about the trust's GIDS clinic prescribing puberty blockers to children.The drugs have since been banned for under-18s and the Cass Review concluded that the Tavistock was implementing "changes in care without a well considered evidence base".But now the NHS has announced plans to trial puberty blockers on children, something Dr Bell says would be unethical and risks causing major harm.In an exclusive interview with the Daily T, Dr Bell talks about how the now-closed Tavistock was “invaded” by gender ideology; the fear amongst colleagues who wanted to speak out; and why he is “frightened” at NHS puberty blocker trial being approved.Read: Why I'm sounding the alarm on the next puberty blockers scandalProducer: Lilian FawcettSenior Producer: John CadiganPlanning Editor: Venetia RaineyExecutive Producer: Louisa WellsSocial Media Producer: Rachel DuffyVideo Editor: Andy MackenzieEditor: Camilla TomineyOriginal music by Goss Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On episode 807 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is coming to you live from FreightWaves' 3PL Summit. He's talking to Truckstop's Sean Dehan about the state of the spot market. Did the freight recession recovery see its shadow? Is political uncertainty destabilizing or helping rates? We'll also look at how Truckstop is integrating AI into their platform. CloneOps' David Bell is fully on board with always-on AI agents. Can they fill the customer service and brokerage gaps where reps may be lacking? What happens when an AI agent calls another AI agent? And can tech solve the growing fraud problem in freight? It's about to be hot trucker summer so time to get in shape, drivers. 160 Driving Academy's Steve Gold talks about the importance of driver health to a functioning supply chain.  Plus, freight theft strikes again; truckers with goats as pets; and Trump reveals AI generated plan for Gaza. Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Thomas Wasson in a special edition of Truck Tech, live from the top of a truck!

On episode 807 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is coming to you live from FreightWaves' 3PL Summit. He's talking to Truckstop's Sean Dehan about the state of the spot market. Did the freight recession recovery see its shadow? Is political uncertainty destabilizing or helping rates? We'll also look at how Truckstop is integrating AI into their platform. CloneOps' David Bell is fully on board with always-on AI agents. Can they fill the customer service and brokerage gaps where reps may be lacking? What happens when an AI agent calls another AI agent? And can tech solve the growing fraud problem in freight? It's about to be hot trucker summer so time to get in shape, drivers. 160 Driving Academy's Steve Gold talks about the importance of driver health to a functioning supply chain.  Plus, freight theft strikes again; truckers with goats as pets; and Trump reveals AI generated plan for Gaza. Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Three media companies, in vaguely the same vicinity, in fair debt markets where we lay our scene — where ancient business models encounter new scrutiny, and AI generates images you can't unsee…Valentine's Day has been and gone, so why on earth are we besmirching Romeo and Juliet with terrible puns? You should listen to the episode for the full picture, but basically we're discussing three recent debt transactions from X/Twitter, Snap, and Getty Images.These deals might not seem immediately connected, but there's a thread running through all three. In an age of political upheaval and rapid technological advancement, what do they tell us about the future of media? William Hoffman, David Bell and Will Caiger-Smith are here to discuss, and to crowdsource ideas for sponsored 9fin Snapchat filters.Want to share feedback on this episode? Send us a note at podcast@9fin.com.

BSens head coach David Bell with an update on Leevi Merilianen, two big wins in Cleveland, Stephen Halliday getting a look at practice in Ottawa and how the NHL trade deadline affects the BSens.

BSens head coach David Bell with an update on Leevi Merilainen and their push to the playoffs and the Senators are back on the practice ice with hopeful updates on Tkachuk, Norris and Pinto.

This episode of the Oil & Gas Measurement Podcast explores the evolution of mass measurement using differential pressure devices, with guest David Bell of Bell Technologies.  David shares insights from his extensive experience in measurement, discusses the limitations of traditional orifice plate technology, and introduces advancements like the Center Tap Technology and the TORUSWEDGE. The conversation highlights how these innovations improve accuracy, stability, and reliability across various oil and gas measurement applications. Visit PipelinePodcastNetwork.com for a full episode transcript, as well as detailed show notes with relevant links and insider term definitions. 

David Bell and Joe Lynch discuss CloneOps.ai: AI phone operations always turned on. David is the Co-founder and CEO of CloneOps, a technology company that empowers teams by automating repetitive tasks, freeing them to focus on high-impact work and reach their full potential. About David Bell David Bell is the Co-founder and CEO of CloneOps, a technology company that empowers teams by automating repetitive tasks, freeing them to focus on high-impact work and reach their full potential. A seasoned leader with over 30 years of experience, David began his career in the transportation industry in 1995, rapidly progressing to leadership roles. As CEO of Smith-Cargo Transportation, he orchestrated a successful exit and sale to a private equity firm. He then co-founded Lean Solutions Group, where he spearheaded two successful liquidity events with private equity and scaled the company to over 10,000 employees across Latin America. Throughout his tenure, David was instrumental in developing go-to-market strategies, forging strategic partnerships, and defining the company's visionary roadmap. About CloneOps CloneOps.ai is transforming phone operations with AI-powered solutions engineered for speed, scale, and efficiency. Built by seasoned industry experts, CloneOps.ai handles high-volume inbound and outbound calls, streamlining workflows and delivering real-time insights that empower human teams to focus on strategic, high-impact initiatives. Its AI-driven virtual agents ensure seamless, 24/7 communication, enhancing customer interactions and automating outreach across diverse industries, from logistics and retail to beyond. A simple, plug-and-play integration minimizes disruption and unlocks immediate productivity gains, improved response times, and measurable growth. CloneOps.ai believes in AI that amplifies human potential, working alongside teams to achieve more. The future of phone operations is here—always turned on. Key Takeaways: CloneOps AI: AI Phone Operations Always Turned On AI-Driven Communication Solutions: CloneOps.ai offers a customizable, AI-powered software solution that revolutionizes how companies manage freight brokerage and logistics. Industry Applications: The platform is designed to handle tasks such as answering inquiries, managing customer interactions, and scheduling, thereby improving efficiency in sectors like logistics, debt collection, retail, medical insurance, and media publications. Scalability and Efficiency: By automating routine communications, CloneOps.ai enables businesses to manage high call volumes effectively, reducing wait times and enhancing customer experience. Real-Time Data Analysis: The platform analyzes call data to identify trends, monitor quality, and provide insights for continuous improvement in customer service and operations. Integration Capabilities: CloneOps.ai integrates seamlessly with existing software systems, including ERP, TMS, CRM, and custom applications, facilitating quick adoption without major disruptions. User-Friendly Interface: The platform offers an intuitive and easy-to-use interface, making it accessible for users without extensive technical knowledge. Learn More About CloneOps AI: AI Phone Operations Always Turned On David Bell | Linkedin CloneOps CloneOps | Linkedin How Can AI Solve Dispatch Inefficiencies CloneOps | Instagram Co-Founder David Bell was live with FreightWaves'  Timothy Dooner to discuss smarter phone operations using AI-driven solutions. The Logistics of Logistics Podcast If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a positive review, subscribe, and share it with your friends and colleagues. The Logistics of Logistics Podcast: Google, Apple, Castbox, Spotify, Stitcher, PlayerFM, Tunein, Podbean, Owltail, Libsyn, Overcast Check out The Logistics of Logistics on Youtube

On episode 798 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is joined by the special guest co-host Reed Loustalot from Truck Parking Club. They're covering headlines about Trump's 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada that start on Saturday; and the best fleets to drive for in ‘25. We'll also find out how Truck Parking Club has massively scaled available truck parking for drivers through great business acumen…and viral TikTok videos. Plus, we'll talk about our big plans together for the Mid-America Truck Trucking Show. David Bell built Lean Solutions Group, now he's making AI agents who are answering the call at CloneOps. We'll find out all about what's good in the supply chain AI landscape. Freight Essentials Dylan Admire shares the latest on his lawsuit against WWEX Group.  Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Visit our sponsor Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On episode 798 of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is joined by the special guest co-host Reed Loustalot from Truck Parking Club. They're covering headlines about Trump's 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada that start on Saturday; and the best fleets to drive for in ‘25. We'll also find out how Truck Parking Club has massively scaled available truck parking for drivers through great business acumen…and viral TikTok videos. Plus, we'll talk about our big plans together for the Mid-America Truck Trucking Show. David Bell built Lean Solutions Group, now he's making AI agents who are answering the call at CloneOps. We'll find out all about what's good in the supply chain AI landscape. Freight Essentials Dylan Admire shares the latest on his lawsuit against WWEX Group.  Catch new shows live at noon EDT Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on FreightWaves LinkedIn, Facebook, X or YouTube, or on demand by looking up WHAT THE TRUCK?!? on your favorite podcast player and at 5 p.m. Eastern on SiriusXM's Road Dog Trucking Channel 146. Watch on YouTube Check out the WTT merch store Visit our sponsor Subscribe to the WTT newsletter Apple Podcasts Spotify More FreightWaves Podcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi. Some More News head writer David Bell joins Katy, Cody, and Jonathan to go through the dizzying slurry of executive orders issued by Donald Trump on Day One. Also, we talk about Elon Musk definitely not giving a Nazi salute... how could you even suggest such a thing? Get the world's news at https://ground.news/SMN to compare coverage and see through biased coverage. Subscribe for 40% off unlimited access through our link. Chapters: 00:00 - Intro and Holidays 02:33 - The News is a lot 10:08 - Nazi Salute?? 11:55 - Birthright Citizenship 19:32 - Pardoning January 6ers 26:18 - Nazi Salute….. 28:00 - Back to the pardons 31:52 - DEI 36:43 - Anti-trans executive orders 43:49 - Lighting round of executive orders 48:48 - Nazi Salute 57:49 - We did it PATREON: https://patreon.com/somemorenews MERCH: https://shop.somemorenews.com

Andrew welcomes David Bell, CEO and founder of CloneOps.ai. David has been in the logistics industry for more than 30 years. He once had a vision to make Lean Solutions Group a 10,000-employee organization — he and his team accomplished that. Now, with his new voice AI business, CloneOps.ai, he plans to hit 1 billion talking minutes for his customers in three years.In this episode, David shares:How he founded his early LTL brokerage business and the challenges of LTL.How he and cofounder Roberto Cadena built Lean Solutions Group.His recipe for building long-term loyalty with the people who work for him. What inspired him to start CloneOps.ai and how he got it off the ground.How CloneOps.ai is solving the biggest challenges in brokerage.Follow The Freight Pod and host Andrew Silver on LinkedIn.***Episode brought to you by Rapido Solutions Group. I had the pleasure of working with Danny Frisco and Roberto Icaza at Coyote, as well as being a client of theirs more recently at MoLo. Their team does a great job supplying nearshore talent to brokers, carriers, and technology providers to handle any role necessary, be it customer or carrier support, back office, or tech services.***

Our limited series with co-hosts Abe Epperson and David Bell digs deep into the internet meme of the “dad movie.” We can all probably name a dad movie, but can we isolate the tropes that really make this a bona fide film genre? Let's find out! Features: Abe Epperson: https://twitter.com/abethemighty David Bell: https://twitter.com/MovieHooligan Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691

Michael Swaim wrote a short Dungeons & Dragons campaign for his buds Starline Hodge, Abe Epperson, and David Bell. They basically know as much as you do, so we recorded it and here it is. Features: Michael Swaim: https://twitter.com/SWAIM_CORP Starline Hodge: https://twitter.com/starlinex Abe Epperson: https://twitter.com/AbeTheMighty David Bell: https://twitter.com/MovieHooligan Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691