Podcast appearances and mentions of Barry Weiss

It's a small world. The great David Rieff came to my San Francisco studio today for in person interview about his new anti-woke polemic Desire and Fate. And half way through our conversation, he brought up Daniel Bessner's This Is America piece which Bessner discussed on yesterday's show. I'm not sure what that tells us about wokeness, a subject which Rieff and I aren't in agreement. For him, it's the thing-in-itself which make sense of our current cultural malaise. Thus Desire and Fate, his attempt (with a great intro from John Banville) to wake us up from Wokeness. For me, it's a distraction. I've included the full transcript below. Lots of good stuff to chew on. Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS * Rieff views "woke" ideology as primarily American and post-Protestant in nature, rather than stemming solely from French philosophy, emphasizing its connections to self-invention and subjective identity.* He argues that woke culture threatens high culture but not capitalism, noting that corporations have readily embraced a "baudlerized" version of identity politics that avoids class discussions.* Rieff sees woke culture as connected to the wellness movement, with both sharing a preoccupation with "psychic safety" and the metaphorical transformation of experience in which "words” become a form of “violence."* He suggests young people's material insecurity contributes to their focus on identity, as those facing bleak economic prospects turn inward when they "can't make their way in the world."* Rieff characterizes woke ideology as "apocalyptic but not pessimistic," contrasting it with his own genuine pessimism which he considers more realistic about human nature and more cheerful in its acceptance of life's limitations. FULL TRANSCRIPTAndrew Keen: Hello everybody, as we digest Trump 2.0, we don't talk that much these days about woke and woke ideology. There was a civil war amongst progressives, I think, on the woke front in 2023 and 2024, but with Donald Trump 2.0 and his various escapades, let's just talk these days about woke. We have a new book, however, on the threat of woke by my guest, David Rieff. It's called Desire and Fate. He wrote it in 2023, came out in late 2024. David's visiting the Bay Area. He's an itinerant man traveling from the East Coast to Latin America and Europe. David, welcome to Keen on America. Do you regret writing this book given what's happened in the last few months in the United States?David Rieff: No, not at all, because I think that the road to moral and intellectual hell is trying to censor yourself according to what you think is useful. There's a famous story of Jean Paul Sartre that he said to the stupefaction of a journalist late in his life that he'd always known about the gulag, and the journalist pretty surprised said, well, why didn't you say anything? And Sartre said so as not to demoralize the French working class. And my own view is, you know, you say what you have to say about this and if I give some aid and comfort to people I don't like, well, so be it. Having said that, I also think a lot of these woke ideas have their, for all of Trump's and Trump's people's fierce opposition to woke, some of the identity politics, particularly around Jewish identity seems to me not that very different from woke. Strangely they seem to have taken, for example, there's a lot of the talk about anti-semitism on college campuses involves student safety which is a great woke trope that you feel unsafe and what people mean by that is not literally they're going to get shot or beaten up, they mean that they feel psychically unsafe. It's part of the kind of metaphorization of experience that unfortunately the United States is now completely in the grips of. But the same thing on the other side, people like Barry Weiss, for example, at the Free Press there, they talk in the same language of psychic safety. So I'm not sure there's, I think there are more similarities than either side is comfortable with.Andrew Keen: You describe Woke, David, as a cultural revolution and you associated in the beginning of the book with something called Lumpen-Rousseauism. As we joked before we went live, I'm not sure if there's anything in Rousseau which isn't Lumpen. But what exactly is this cultural revolution? And can we blame it on bad French philosophy or Swiss French?David Rieff: Well, Swiss-French philosophy, you know exactly. There is a funny anecdote, as I'm sure you know, that Rousseau made a visit to Edinburgh to see Hume and there's something in Hume's diaries where he talks about Rousseau pacing up and down in front of the fire and suddenly exclaiming, but David Hume is not a bad man. And Hume notes in his acerbic way, Rousseau was like walking around without his skin on. And I think some of the woke sensitivity stuff is very much people walking around without their skin on. They can't stand the idea of being offended. I don't see it as much - of course, the influence of that version of cultural relativism that the French like Deleuze and Guattari and other people put forward is part of the story, but I actually see it as much more of a post-Protestant thing. This idea, in that sense, some kind of strange combination of maybe some French philosophy, but also of the wellness movement, of this notion that health, including psychic health, was the ultimate good in a secular society. And then the other part, which again, it seems to be more American than French, which is this idea, and this is particularly true in the trans movement, that you can be anything you want to be. And so that if you feel yourself to be a different gender, well, that's who you are. And what matters is your own subjective sense of these things, and it's up to you. The outside world has no say in it, it's what you feel. And that in a sense, what I mean by post-Protestant is that, I mean, what's the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism? The fundamental difference is, it seems to me, that in Roman Catholic tradition, you need the priest to intercede with God, whereas in Protestant tradition, it is, except for the Anglicans, but for most of Protestantism, it's you and God. And in that sense it seems to me there are more of what I see in woke than this notion that some of the right-wing people like Chris Rufo and others have that this is cultural French cultural Marxism making its insidious way through the institutions.Andrew Keen: It's interesting you talk about the Protestant ethic and you mentioned Hume's remark about Rousseau not having his skin on. Do you think that Protestantism enabled people to grow thick skins?David Rieff: I mean, the Calvinist idea certainly did. In fact, there were all these ideas in Protestant culture, at least that's the classical interpretation of deferred gratification. Capitalism was supposed to be the work ethic, all of that stuff that Weber talks about. But I think it got in the modern version. It became something else. It stopped being about those forms of disciplines and started to be about self-invention. And in a sense, there's something very American about that because after all you know it's the Great Gatsby. It's what's the famous sentence of F. Scott Fitzgerald's: there are no second acts in American lives.Andrew Keen: This is the most incorrect thing anyone's ever said about America. I'm not sure if he meant it to be incorrect, did he? I don't know.David Rieff: I think what's true is that you get the American idea, you get to reinvent yourself. And this notion of the dream, the dream become reality. And many years ago when I was spending a lot of time in LA in the late 80s, early 90s, at LAX, there was a sign from the then mayor, Tom Bradley, about how, you know, if you can dream it, it can be true. And I think there's a lot in identitarian woke idea which is that we can - we're not constricted by history or reality. In fact, it's all the present and the future. And so to me again, woke seems to me much more recognizable as something American and by extension post-Protestant in the sense that you see the places where woke is most powerful are in the other, what the encampment kids would call settler colonies, Australia and Canada. And now in the UK of course, where it seems to me by DI or EDI as they call it over there is in many ways stronger in Britain even than it was in the US before Trump.Andrew Keen: Does it really matter though, David? I mean, that's my question. Does it matter? I mean it might matter if you have the good or the bad fortune to teach at a small, expensive liberal arts college. It might matter with some of your dinner parties in Tribeca or here in San Francisco, but for most people, who cares?David Rieff: It doesn't matter. I think it matters to culture and so what you think culture is worth, because a lot of the point of this book was to say there's nothing about woke that threatens capitalism, that threatens the neo-liberal order. I mean it's turning out that Donald Trump is a great deal bigger threat to the neoliberal order. Woke was to the contrary - woke is about talking about everything but class. And so a kind of baudlerized, de-radicalized version of woke became perfectly fine with corporate America. That's why this wonderful old line hard lefty Adolph Reed Jr. says somewhere that woke is about diversifying the ruling class. But I do think it's a threat to high culture because it's about equity. It's about representation. And so elite culture, which I have no shame in proclaiming my loyalty to, can't survive the woke onslaught. And it hasn't, in my view. If you look at just the kinds of books that are being written, the kinds of plays that are been put on, even the opera, the new operas that are being commissioned, they're all about representing the marginalized. They're about speaking for your group, whatever that group is, and doing away with various forms of cultural hierarchy. And I'm with Schoenberg: if it's for everybody, if it's art, Schoenberg said it's not for everybody, and if it's for everybody it's not art. And I think woke destroys that. Woke can live with schlock. I'm sorry, high culture can live with schlock, it always has, it always will. What it can't live with is kitsch. And by which I mean kitsch in Milan Kundera's definition, which is to have opinions that you feel better about yourself for holding. And that I think is inimical to culture. And I think woke is very destructive of those traditions. I mean, in the most obvious sense, it's destructive of the Western tradition, but you know, the high arts in places like Japan or Bengal, I don't think it's any more sympathetic to those things than it is to Shakespeare or John Donne or whatever. So yeah, I think it's a danger in that sense. Is it a danger to the peace of the world? No, of course not.Andrew Keen: Even in cultural terms, as you explain, it is an orthodoxy. If you want to work with the dominant cultural institutions, the newspapers, the universities, the publishing houses, you have to play by those rules, but the great artists, poets, filmmakers, musicians have never done that, so all it provides, I mean you brought up Kundera, all it provides is something that independent artists, creative people will sneer at, will make fun of, as you have in this new book.David Rieff: Well, I hope they'll make fun of it. But on the other hand, I'm an old guy who has the means to sneer. I don't have to please an editor. Someone will publish my books one way or another, whatever ones I have left to write. But if you're 25 years old, maybe you're going to sneer with your pals in the pub, but you're gonna have to toe the line if you want to be published in whatever the obvious mainstream place is and you're going to be attacked on social media. I think a lot of people who are very, young people who are skeptical of this are just so afraid of being attacked by their peers on various social media that they keep quiet. I don't know that it's true that, I'd sort of push back on that. I think non-conformists will out. I hope it's true. But I wonder, I mean, these traditions, once they die, they're very hard to rebuild. And, without going full T.S. Eliot on you, once you don't think you're part of the past, once the idea is that basically, pretty much anything that came before our modern contemporary sense of morality and fairness and right opinion is to be rejected and that, for example, the moral character of the artist should determine whether or not the art should be paid attention to - I don't know how you come back from that or if you come back from that. I'm not convinced you do. No, other arts will be around. And I mean, if I were writing a critical review of my own book, I'd say, look, this culture, this high culture that you, David Rieff, are writing an elegy for, eulogizing or memorializing was going to die anyway, and we're at the beginning of another Gutenbergian epoch, just as Gutenberg, we're sort of 20 years into Marshall McLuhan's Gutenberg galaxy, and these other art forms will come, and they won't be like anything else. And that may be true.Andrew Keen: True, it may be true. In a sense then, to extend that critique, are you going full T.S. Eliot in this book?David Rieff: Yeah, I think Eliot was right. But it's not just Eliot, there are people who would be for the wokesters more acceptable like Mandelstam, for example, who said you're part of a conversation that's been going on long before you were born, that's going to be going on after you are, and I think that's what art is. I think the idea that we make some completely new thing is a childish fantasy. I think you belong to a tradition. There are periods - look, this is, I don't find much writing in English in prose fiction very interesting. I have to say I read the books that people talk about because I'm trying to understand what's going on but it doesn't interest me very much, but again, there have been periods of great mediocrity. Think of a period in the late 17th century in England when probably the best poet was this completely, rightly, justifiably forgotten figure, Colley Cibber. You had the great restoration period and then it all collapsed, so maybe it'll be that way. And also, as I say, maybe it's just as with the print revolution, that this new culture of social media will produce completely different forms. I mean, everything is mortal, not just us, but cultures and civilizations and all the rest of it. So I can imagine that, but this is the time I live in and the tradition I come from and I'm sorry it's gone, and I think what's replacing it is for the most part worse.Andrew Keen: You're critical in the book of what you, I'm quoting here, you talk about going from the grand inquisitor to the grand therapist. But you're very critical of the broader American therapeutic culture of acute sensitivity, the thin skin nature of, I guess, the Rousseau in this, whatever, it's lumpen Rousseauanism. So how do you interpret that without psychologizing, or are you psychologizing in the book? How are you making sense of our condition? In other words, can one critique criticize therapeutic culture without becoming oneself therapeutic?David Rieff: You mean the sort of Pogo line, we've met the enemy and it is us. Well, I suppose there's some truth to that. I don't know how much. I think that woke is in some important sense a subset of the wellness movement. And the wellness movement after all has tens and tens of millions of people who are in one sense or another influenced by it. And I think health, including psychic health, and we've moved from wellness as corporal health to wellness as being both soma and psyche. So, I mean, if that's psychologizing, I certainly think it's drawing the parallel or seeing woke in some ways as one of the children of the god of wellness. And that to me, I don't know how therapeutic that is. I think it's just that once you feel, I'm interested in what people feel. I'm not necessarily so interested in, I mean, I've got lots of opinions, but what I think I'm better at than having opinions is trying to understand why people think what they think. And I do think that once health becomes the ultimate good in a secular society and once death becomes the absolutely unacceptable other, and once you have the idea that there's no real distinction of any great validity between psychic and physical wellness, well then of course sensitivity to everything becomes almost an inevitable reaction.Andrew Keen: I was reading the book and I've been thinking about a lot of movements in America which are trying to bring people together, dealing with America, this divided America, as if it's a marriage in crisis. So some of the most effective or interesting, I think, thinkers on this, like Arlie Hochschild in Berkeley, use the language of therapy to bring or to try to bring America back together, even groups like the Braver Angels. Can therapy have any value or that therapeutic culture in a place like America where people are so bitterly divided, so hateful towards one another?David Rieff: Well, it's always been a country where, on the one hand, people have been, as you say, incredibly good at hatred and also a country of people who often construe themselves as misfits and heretics from the Puritans forward. And on the other hand, you have that small-town American idea, which sometimes I think is as important to woke and DI as as anything else which is that famous saying of small town America of all those years ago which was if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all. And to some extent that is, I think, a very powerful ancestor of these movements. Whether they're making any headway - of course I hope they are, but Hochschild is a very interesting figure, but I don't, it seems to me it's going all the other way, that people are increasingly only talking to each other.Andrew Keen: What this movement seems to want to do is get beyond - I use this word carefully, I'm not sure if they use it but I'm going to use it - ideology and that we're all prisoners of ideology. Is woke ideology or is it a kind of post-ideology?David Rieff: Well, it's a redemptive idea, a restorative idea. It's an idea that in that sense, there's a notion that it's time for the victims, for the first to be last and the last to be first. I mean, on some level, it is as simple as that. On another level, as I say, I do think it has a lot to do with metaphorization of experience, that people say silence is violence and words are violence and at that point what's violence? I mean there is a kind of level to me where people have gotten trapped in the kind of web of their own metaphors and now are living by them or living shackled to them or whatever image you're hoping for. But I don't know what it means to get beyond ideology. What, all men will be brothers, as in the Beethoven-Schiller symphony? I mean, it doesn't seem like that's the way things are going.Andrew Keen: Is the problem then, and I'm thinking out loud here, is the problem politics or not enough politics?David Rieff: Oh, I think the problem is that now we don't know, we've decided that everything is part, the personal is the political, as the feminists said, 50, 60 years ago. So the personal's political, so the political is the personal. So you have to live the exemplary moral life, or at least the life that doesn't offend anybody or that conforms to whatever the dominant views of what good opinions are, right opinions are. I think what we're in right now is much more the realm of kind of a new set of moral codes, much more than ideology in the kind of discrete sense of politics.Andrew Keen: Now let's come back to this idea of being thin-skinned. Why are people so thin-skinned?David Rieff: Because, I mean, there are lots of things to say about that. One thing, of course, that might be worth saying, is that the young generations, people who are between, let's say, 15 and 30, they're in real material trouble. It's gonna be very hard for them to own a house. It's hard for them to be independent and unless the baby boomers like myself will just transfer every penny to them, which doesn't seem very likely frankly, they're going to live considerably worse than generations before. So if you can't make your way in the world then maybe you make your way yourself or you work on yourself in that sort of therapeutic sense. You worry about your own identity because the only place you have in the world in some way is yourself, is that work, that obsession. I do think some of these material questions are important. There's a guy you may know who's not at all woke, a guy who teaches at the University of Washington called Danny Bessner. And I just did a show with him this morning. He's a smart guy and we have a kind of ironic correspondence over email and DM. And I once said to him, why are you so bitter about everything? And he said, you want to know why? Because I have two children and the likelihood is I'll never get a teaching job that won't require a three hour commute in order for me to live anywhere that I can afford to live. And I thought, and he couldn't be further from woke, he's a kind of Jacobin guy, Jacobin Magazine guy, and if he's left at all, it's kind of old left, but I think a lot of people feel that, that they feel their practical future, it looks pretty grim.Andrew Keen: But David, coming back to the idea of art, they're all suited to the world of art. They don't have to buy a big house and live in the suburbs. They can become poets. They can become filmmakers. They can put their stuff up on YouTube. They can record their music online. There are so many possibilities.David Rieff: It's hard to monetize that. Maybe now you're beginning to sound like the people you don't like. Now you're getting to sound like a capitalist.Andrew Keen: So what? Well, I don't care if I sound like a capitalist. You're not going to starve to death.David Rieff: Well, you might not like, I mean, it's fine to be a barista at 24. It's not so fine at 44. And are these people going to ever get out of this thing? I don't know. I wonder. Look, when I was starting as a writer, as long as you were incredibly diligent, and worked really hard, you could cobble together at least a basic living by accepting every assignment and people paid you bits and bobs of money, but put together, you could make a living. Now, the only way to make money, unless you're lucky enough to be on staff of a few remaining media outlets that remain, is you have to become an impresario, you have become an entrepreneur of your own stuff. And again, sure, do lots of people manage that? Yeah, but not as many as could have worked in that other system, and look at the fate of most newspapers, all folding. Look at the universities. We can talk about woke and how woke destroyed, in my view anyway, a lot of the humanities. But there's also a level in which people didn't want to study these things. So we're looking at the last generation in a lot places of a lot of these humanities departments and not just the ones that are associated with, I don't know, white supremacy or the white male past or whatever, but just the humanities full stop. So I know if that sounds like, maybe it sounds like a capitalist, but maybe it also sounds like you know there was a time when the poets - you know very well, poets never made a living, poets taught in universities. That's the way American poets made their money, including pretty famous poets like Eric Wolcott or Joseph Brodsky or writers, Toni Morrison taught at Princeton all those years, Joyce Carol Oates still alive, she still does. Most of these people couldn't make a living of their work and so the university provided that living.Andrew Keen: You mentioned Barry Weiss earlier. She's making a fortune as an anti-woke journalist. And Free Press seems to be thriving. Yascha Mounk's Persuasion is doing pretty well. Andrew Sullivan, another good example, making a fortune off of Substack. It seems as if the people willing to take risks, Barry Weiss leaving the New York Times, Andrew Sullivan leaving everything he's ever joined - that's...David Rieff: Look, are there going to be people who thrive in this new environment? Sure. And Barry Weiss turns out to be this kind of genius entrepreneur. She deserves full credit for that. Although even Barry Weiss, the paradox for me of Barry Weiss is, a lot of her early activism was saying that she felt unsafe with these anti-Israeli teachers at Columbia. So in a sense, she was using some of the same language as the woke use, psychic safety, because she didn't mean Joseph Massad was gonna come out from the blackboard and shoot her in the eye. She meant that she was offended and used the language of safety to describe that. And so in that sense, again, as I was saying to you earlier, I think there are more similarities here. And Trump, I think this is a genuine counterrevolution that Trump is trying to mount. I'm not very interested in the fascism, non-fascism debate. I'm rather skeptical of it.Andrew Keen: As Danny Bessner is. Yeah, I thought Danny's piece about that was brilliant.David Rieff: We just did a show about it today, that piece about why that's all rubbish. I was tempted, I wrote to a friend that guy you may know David Bell teaches French history -Andrew Keen: He's coming on the show next week. Well, you see, it's just a little community of like-minded people.David Rieff: There you go. Well, I wrote to David.Andrew Keen: And you mentioned his father in the book, Daniel.David Rieff: Yeah, well, his father is sort of one of the tutelary idols of the book. I had his father and I read his father and I learned an enormous amount. I think that book about the cultural contradictions of capitalism is one of the great prescient books about our times. But I wrote to David, I said, I actually sent him the Bessner piece which he was quite ambivalent about. But I said well, I'm not really convinced by the fascism of Trump, maybe just because Hitler read books, unlike Donald Trump. But it's a genuine counterrevolution. And what element will change the landscape in terms of DI and woke and identitarianism is not clear. These people are incredibly ambitious. They really mean to change this country, transform it.Andrew Keen: But from the book, David, Trump's attempts to cleanse, if that's the right word, the university, I would have thought you'd have rather admired that, all these-David Rieff: I agree with some of it.Andrew Keen: All these idiots writing the same article for 30 years about something that no one has any interest in.David Rieff: I look, my problem with Trump is that I do support a lot of that. I think some of the stuff that Christopher Rufo, one of the leading ideologues of this administration has uncovered about university programs and all of this crap, I think it's great that they're not paying for it anymore. The trouble is - you asked me before, is it that important? Is culture important compared to destroying the NATO alliance, blowing up the global trade regime? No. I don't think. So yeah, I like a lot of what they're doing about the university, I don't like, and I am very fiercely opposed to this crackdown on speech. That seems to be grotesque and revolting, but are they canceling supporting transgender theater in Galway? Yeah, I think it's great that they're canceling all that stuff. And so I'm not, that's my problem with Trump, is that some of that stuff I'm quite unashamedly happy about, but it's not nearly worth all the damage he's doing to this country and the world.Andrew Keen: Being very generous with your time, David. Finally, in the book you describe woke as, and I thought this was a very sharp way of describing it, describe it as being apocalyptic but not pessimistic. What did you mean by that? And then what is the opposite of woke? Would it be not apocalyptic, but cheerful?David Rieff: Well, I think genuine pessimists are cheerful, I would put myself among those. The model is Samuel Beckett, who just thinks things are so horrible that why not be cheerful about them, and even express one's pessimism in a relatively cheerful way. You remember the famous story that Thomas McCarthy used to tell about walking in the Luxembourg Gardens with Beckett and McCarthy says to him, great day, it's such a beautiful day, Sam. Beckett says, yeah, beautiful day. McCarthy says, makes you glad to be alive. And Beckett said, oh, I wouldn't go that far. And so, the genuine pessimist is quite cheerful. But coming back to woke, it's apocalyptic in the sense that everything is always at stake. But somehow it's also got this reformist idea that cultural revolution will cleanse away the sins of the supremacist patriarchal past and we'll head for the sunny uplands. I think I'm much too much of a pessimist to think that's possible in any regime, let alone this rather primitive cultural revolution called woke.Andrew Keen: But what would the opposite be?David Rieff: The opposite would be probably some sense that the best we're going to do is make our peace with the trash nature of existence, that life is finite in contrast with the wellness people who probably have a tendency towards the apocalyptic because death is an insult to them. So everything is staving off the bad news and that's where you get this idea that you can, like a lot of revolutions, you can change the nature of people. Look, the communist, Che Guevara talked about the new man. Well, I wonder if he thought it was so new when he was in Bolivia. I think these are - people need utopias, this is one of them, MAGA is another utopia by the way, and people don't seem to be able to do without them and that's - I wish it were otherwise but it isn't.Andrew Keen: I'm guessing the woke people would be offended by the idea of death, are they?David Rieff: Well, I think the woke people, in this synchronicity, people and a lot of people, they're insulted - how can this happen to me, wonderful me? And this is those jokes in the old days when the British could still be savage before they had to have, you know, Henry the Fifth be played by a black actor - why me? Well, why not you? That's just so alien to and it's probably alien to the American idea. You're supposed to - it's supposed to work out and the truth is it doesn't work out. But La Rochefoucauld says somewhere no one can stare for too long at death or the sun and maybe I'm asking too much.Andrew Keen: Maybe only Americans can find death unacceptable to use one of your words.David Rieff: Yes, perhaps.Andrew Keen: Well, David Rieff, congratulations on the new book. Fascinating, troubling, controversial as always. Desire and Fate. I know you're writing a book about Oppenheimer, very different kind of subject. We'll get you back on the show to talk Oppenheimer, where I guess there's not going to be a lot of Lumpen-Rousseauism.David Rieff: Very little, very little love and Rousseau in the quantum mechanics world, but thanks for having me.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Have you ever stood at a crossroads, principles in one hand, the easy path in the other? In this episode, we tackle the silent crisis afflicting today's society: a dire need for courage among leaders. Courage that demands we stand grounded in our convictions, regardless of the tremors that threaten our professional and personal worlds.Through our journey, the spotlight falls on Dr. Roland Fryer, the brilliant mind whose empirical research on police use of force overturned widely accepted narratives. Withstanding immense pressure and the looming threat to his career, Fryer's resolve to publish his findings remains a testament to integrity. His story, woven from the threads of a challenging upbringing to the academic peaks of Harvard, underscores the monumental impact that one individual's adherence to truth can provide. Our discussion is not just a chronicle of Fryer's work, but a rallying cry for the kind of leadership that can genuinely reform and inspire change within the community.This episode is a tribute to those who prioritize unwavering principles over the luring call of comfort and a reminder that it is these rare acts of bravery that carve paths for progress. Listen in for an urgent, heartfelt charge towards cultivating a society that values integrity and the powerful influence of courageous leadership.A special thanks to The Free Press and Barry Weiss for the audio portions of this podcast.You can view Dr. Fryer's research here. An article dedicated to Dr. Fryer is here that contains the full 77 minute interview. Join Our Tribe of Courageous Leaders: Get The BookGet Weekly Articles by Travis YatesJoin Us At Our WebsiteGet Our 'Courageous Leadership' TrainingJoin The Courageous Police Leadership Alliance

In this episode of the Big Chew Podcast, Noah and Zach discuss a conversation between Barry Weiss and Tim Urban. They cover topics such as the history of humanity, the lizard brain vs the higher brain, politics and echo chambers, universities and ideological supremacy, liberal social justice vs social justice fundamentalism, procrastination and happiness, and social media and comparison. The conversation explores the impact of these themes on society and offers insights into how individuals can navigate these challenges. Takeaways Universities have shifted from being idea laboratories to idea supremacists, limiting the diversity of ideas and stifling intellectual growth. There are two distinct forms of social justice: liberal social justice, which seeks to improve the nation, and social justice fundamentalism, which seeks to tear down and rebuild the entire system. Procrastination is a result of our evolutionary programming and the struggle between our lizard brain and higher brain. Social media promotes comparison and image crafting, leading to feelings of inadequacy and unhappiness. To combat these challenges, individuals can prioritize their time, seek out diverse perspectives, and be present in the real world. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Overview 03:00 - The History of Humanity 06:00 - Lizard Brain vs Higher Brain 08:00 - Politics and Echo Chambers 10:00 - Universities and Ideological Supremacy 13:00 - Liberal Social Justice vs Social Justice Fundamentalism 16:00 - Procrastination and Happiness 19:00 - Social Media and Comparison 20:00 - Conclusion Support this show and show some love to our sponsor, Burly Brandz, by using the code 'fast15' for 15% off at ⁠⁠⁠www.burlybrandz.com.⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Zach: Twitter | ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/z_nix_?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠⁠⁠ Instagram | ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/zachnx/⁠⁠⁠ Facebook | ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/zach.nx⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Noah: Twitter | ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/noahreeves315?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠⁠⁠ Instagram | ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/noah.reeves96/⁠⁠⁠ Facebook |⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/noah.reeves⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to The Big Chew Podcast Twitter | ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/thebigchewpod?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠⁠⁠ Instagram Meme Page | the_big_chew_memes ⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/the_big_chew_memes?igshid=Y2I2MzMwZWM3ZA==⁠⁠⁠ Instagram | the.big.chew.podcast ⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/the.big.chew.podcast?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==⁠⁠⁠ Popular ways to listen: Apple Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-big-chew/id1608218162⁠⁠⁠ Spotify | ⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4hsYkpfaJdBCYa8qmTmNq3?si=8d2922dc71ba4cdc⁠⁠⁠ Send in a voice message: ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bigchew/message⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bigchew/message

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In this episode, Jon opens with a few thoughts on the FIBA World Cup games that occurred over Labor Day weekend & what potential matchups Knicks fans could be looking forward to in the Semifinals & Finals. Then he is joined by the founder & director of Steady Buckets, Coach Macky AND friend (and sponsor) of the pod Barry Weiss of Weiss & Rosenbloom to learn all about this programs & how they use leadership development as a way to return ownership of youth sports back to children. Watch the video version of this podcast on our YouTube channel! FOLLOW MACRI - @JCMacriNBA FOLLOW GMAC - @AndrewJClaudio_ CHECK OUT STEADY BUCKETS - https://www.steadybuckets.org CHECK OUT WEISS & ROSENBLOOM - https://www.weissandrosenbloom.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/jewish-studies

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literature

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/israel-studies

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

n this episode (originally aired by our partner Novel Dialogue) John and his Brandeis colleague Eugene Sheppard speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism–and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of the Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy‘s bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion… Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us." Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book." Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics. Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business") Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat. Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Read transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/historical-fiction

It's an EmMajority Report Thursday! She talks to Bradford Vivian, Professor of Communication Arts and Sciences at Penn State University, to discuss his recent book Campus Misinformation: The Real Threat to Free Speech in American Higher Education. Then, she is joined by Marco Fonseca, instructor in Latin American and International Studies at the York University Glendon campus, to developments surrounding Guatemala's elections. First, Emma runs through updates on Biden's visit to Ukraine, a potential return to the ERA, labor action with SAG, the EPA, and Ray Epps' lawsuit against Fox News (and how it might have played into Tucker's departure). Bradford Vivian then joins as he parses through the evolution of conservative attacks on higher education over the last few decades, with entire organizations, like TPUSA and YAF, and individuals, like Brett Weinstein and Barry Weiss, who have built up an entire industry of reactionaries who go to colleges to talk about how they can't say anything at colleges. Professor Vivian parses through this blueprint as, largely, a pretext for state-control of higher education, and a way to undermine social justice movements, and the communities that form around and within academia. Stepping back, Bradford walks Emma through some parallels between this era of anti-intellectual attacks, and the similar conservative battle we saw in the mid-20th century, particularly in how it can serve to undermine social justice movements, before parsing through how the recent attacks have pervaded through all levels of education, K-12, as we see with attacks on CRT and the Don't Say Gay bill. Marco Fonseca tackles the most recent round of Guatemalan elections and the surprise success of the Semilla party, a left, anti-corruption party that won enough to advance to a runoff, before stepping back to discuss the roots of the “Seed” party in the Guatemalan spring, with son of first President Arévalo helping to found the party. After walking through the CIA-backed Coup that violently halted the Guatemalan spring, and the decades of growing corruption that followed, Fonseca dives into the recent backlash to said corruption and parses through why the Elite interference in the 2023 election seemingly ignored the threat of Semilla, before they wrap up the show by assessing the future of Guatemalan election integrity as a Semilla ban becomes more and more likely. And in the Fun Half: Emma is joined by Brandon Sutton and Matt Binder as Alex from New York proposes some hypothetical bouts between reactionaries, Josh from Chicago discusses how his role as a teacher has been affected by Republican attacks on teachers as “groomers,” and Maria Bartiromo hosts a wild blood-libel round table. Margaret from PA makes the fun half a little more fun, as does covering SAG's labor action, and the MR Crew covers a few extra strains of absurd Right-Wing conspiracy brain, plus, your calls and IMs! Check out Bradford's book here: https://www.campusmisinformationbook.net/ Follow Marco on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/MarcoVFonseca Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com: https://fans.fm/majority/join Subscribe to the ESVN YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/esvnshow Subscribe to the AMQuickie newsletter here: https://am-quickie.ghost.io/ Join the Majority Report Discord! http://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store: https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ Get the free Majority Report App!: http://majority.fm/app Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @MattBinder @MattLech @BF1nn @BradKAlsop Check out Matt's show, Left Reckoning, on Youtube, and subscribe on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/leftreckoning Subscribe to Brandon's show The Discourse on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/ExpandTheDiscourse Subscribe to Discourse Blog, a newsletter and website for progressive essays and related fun partly run by AM Quickie writer Jack Crosbie. https://discourseblog.com/ Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mattbinder Check out Ava Raiza's music here! https://avaraiza.bandcamp.com/ The Majority Report with Sam Seder - https://majorityreportradio.com/  

Eugene Sheppard joins his Brandeis colleague John Plotz to speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism--and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy's bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion.... Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us."  Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book."  Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics.  Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business")  Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat.  Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

This week, I'm running back an interview with one of the most popular episodes we ever did with Matt Pincus from 2022. Matt Pincus is without question one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the music industry. He sold his independent music publishing company, SONGS, for $160 million five years ago. And now, the music holdings company he co-founded, MUSIC, just raised $200 million to invest in music and music-adjacent companies. Though, Matt doesn't see MUSIC as an investment fund, but rather a holding company. That's because he's taking an operator role in the companies he funds. And unlike the splashy catalog acquisitions that've dominated the space over the past few years, Matt is looking forward with his investments and targeting brand-new growth opportunities instead.In particular, Matt sees big opportunities in the technology sector, web3, and even record labels and publishing. At SONGS, Matt was able to spot and develop up-and-coming songwriters, inking early deals with the likes of Diplo, Lorde, and The Weeknd. He'll be tasked with finding similar success at MUSIC.  Matt and I dove deep into a wide-range of topics during our conversation. Here's a few highlights of what we covered:[2:47] Why Matt created MUSIC[7:19] MUSIC's investment thesis?[13:22] What Matt doesn't like about the music business [19:36] Recent inflow of capital into the music business[20:54] Two lanes to entering music business[24:08] Finding left-of-center opportunities among musical talent [27:30] The structural problem of the music business[30:44] Continuity was key to SONGS success[35:59] The Weeknd as a business blueprint for other artists[36:53] Sync business opportunities [43:46] Have streaming subscriptions peaked?[48:12] Tiktok brought back music frequency[51:13] Matt's five-year predictionsListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Matt Pincus, @mpincSponsors:MoonPay is the leader in web3 infrastructure. They have partnered with Timbaland, Snoop Dogg, and many more. To learn more, visit moonpay.com/trapitalNewsly is your all-in-one audio super app to hear the trending topics on the entire web. Download newsly.me for free and use the promo code ‘TRAP' to receive a 1-month free subscription.Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop's biggest players by reading Trapital's free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Matt Pincus: Defensibility in the music business is not a patent or a technology or some special recipe you have someplace. It's your understanding of music, the people that make it, and then your ability to develop relationships with people around the business and to keep your reputation such that people want to be with you. But the real key in, at least in the music technology side of it is you need to be able to spin the technology yourself and understand really how it works. [00:00:37] Dan Runcie: Hey, welcome to The Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip-hop culture to the next level. [00:00:56] Dan Runcie: Today's episode is with one of the most successful music entrepreneurs of the past few decades. His name is Matt Pincus and he is the founder and CEO of MUSIC, which is a holding company that invests in music tech and music-adjacent companies. MUSIC just launched a 200 million fund to invest in this space, so Matt and I talked all about it. He's looking for companies that still have a clear understanding for how music gets made and understand the art behind it. He's also looking for startups that have a true defensible moat that is something unique that they can do. And he's also looking for the companies that have a huge total addressable market that can clearly grow and expand as we're seeing things continue to grow in this space. Our conversation covered a bunch of topics in this space. We talked about sync and the impact of that. We also talked about how much further streaming can go. And we talked about a bunch of insightful music trends. Really fascinating conversation. I feel like every few months we have one of those conversations where people reach out to me and say, Hey, I took a bunch of notes in that conversation. Thank you for this. And I have a good feeling, I have a good feeling that this is going to be one of those conversations. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here's my chat with Matt Pincus. [00:02:16] Dan Runcie: All right. Today, we're joined by Matt Pincus, who is the founder of MUSIC, which is a holding company that invested music and music-adjacent companies. Matt, I'm really excited to have this conversation because you have had a very impressive career with what you did with Songs and everything that you had done in publishing specifically. And what always stuck out to me about you in this space is how you've identified opportunities where others didn't see them. So I know when I saw the announcement for MUSIC and the $200 million fund you launched, I said, okay, he's seeing something and he's seeing an opportunity to dive in. So what did you see? What made you want to get involved with this?[00:02:58] Matt Pincus: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm a big admirer of Trapital and your work in general. And I'm really happy to be with you here today. So, you know, I started music, it was sort of an organic process. I sold Songs after running it for about 13 years. And it was a fairly abrupt end. So we decided to sell the company and neither me nor my two partners really wanted to run it for somebody else. So we decided that once we sold it, it was time to step away and it was fairly quick. So, you know, I ran the company for 12-plus years. And then 90 days after the sale, I was out in the street, like, what am I going to do with my life? So it was a bit of an organic process. It started with meeting a lot of really interesting founders of music businesses and companies that were around the music business. It's obviously an interesting time in our business in a number of different ways. The streaming market has matured. There are a lot of music tech businesses with interesting founders cropping up over the past four or five years. The web three crypto business has, you know, started the early days of really coming online. And the way that labels, publishing companies, management companies reach audiences is really different than it was like, you know, six, seven years ago. So I met a lot of really interesting people. The first one was Steve Martocci, who was the founder of Splice. He and I hit it off particularly well. And I sort of said, listen, I've been, you know, doing talent deals with young people, you know, in the early twenties for the past 12 years, I think maybe the next chapter is working with founders of companies that are more like 10 years younger than me, as opposed to, you know, 20, early 20s. And taking the experience that I had in the last, like, four or five years of songs when we were trying to figure out how to really realize returns on the business and build on that to try to help people do the same thing. So I was out looking for, you know, are there interesting companies that I might be able to work with in some way or another? And the answer to that quickly became kind of yes, on the music tech side originally, in growth companies, when online music and music technology was shifting to a subscription-based backbone as opposed to a packet software business. And then also on the music side of it, you know, interesting independent labels, music companies operating in a different way. And so the first thing was, are there interesting companies out there? The second is, do they need capital and where would they get it from? And the third was, how am I going to get the money to invest in these businesses? So it was kind of a bit of a bootstrapping exercise where I would go find an opportunity to invest in a company, put some of my own money in LionTree, which sold songs for me and has been a partner and champion of mine since I sold the company, would invest some money too, and then we'd find some other people to round out the investment. We did that first with Splice, put about 20 million into the company over a period of time. We also did in the same way, made an investment in a company called HIFI, which is a FinTech platform benefiting artists in a bunch of different ways, and also with DICE, the ticketing business. And you know, they started, a couple of them did well and actually, they all did well. And so I decided that I wanted to raise some capital and have my own sort of, it's not really a fund. It's more of a holding company 'cause I'm less of an investor and more of an operator. And so the question became, how are we going to raise the money? Now Aryeh Bourkoff who runs LionTree is somewhat of a magic maker, and he took me on and introduced me to two families, the Schusterman Family and JS Capital, which is Jonathan Soros's capital vehicle. And they agreed to invest in a four-way partnership. So it's between me, LionTree, Schusterman Family, and JS Capital. And we formed MUSIC, which is a $200 million holding company. We do deals in a couple of different areas, music tech, which is sort of where I spent most of my time after Songs. We also invest in independent music companies like Songs. So labels publishing companies, management companies. Increasingly, a few of those functions are in one company, as opposed to when I was running Songs, it was like you were either a publisher or a label or a management company. And then we partner sometimes with a larger private equity firm if we are interested in acquiring something that's, you know, of a larger size. And so we're in the middle of one of those right now. And so we were able to find a bunch of interesting opportunity, a bunch of interesting ways, and it seems to me to be, you know, a really good time to be putting money to work in the music business. [00:07:32] Dan Runcie: Yeah. It's an exciting time to be investing in these companies and to be acquiring them too. And you mentioned something there about the types of companies you're looking at and whether they are modern music companies or whether they are doing something that's unique in the space. Can you talk a little bit more about your investment thesis and what you're looking for, and specifically, because, as you mentioned, you're not a fund, you're a holding company, so you're not necessarily just doing, you know, angel investments or early stage. You're trying to make investments for the long haul. So how does that shape your strategy?[00:08:07] Matt Pincus: Very good question. And I think the answer to that depends somewhat on the different areas of investment. So the first is in the technology side of the business, which is kind of where I started as an investor. So, you look for a couple of things there. So first of all, you need to invest in companies, not products. So some of the music startups can be sort of, it's an interesting widget, but can it be a scalable business? So you need to make sure that you have a couple of things in order to know that you're investing in a company that has the ability to grow. So the first thing is you need your own tech stack and it needs to be built to suit whatever market you want to be in. So for example, with Splice, one of the reasons, and there were several, but one of the reasons I invested in the company was because Steve had built this subscription stack from day one of the company. So it was a native SaaS company in a world where the rest of the market needed to move from the old way of doing business to the new way of doing business. Splice was always in the new way of doing business, so it was going to be ahead of the curve. And so you need to make sure that your technical capabilities and your technical assets are going to, you know, be where you want to go. The second is that you need to make sure you're in a part of the market that has a big enough user base to make a real company out of it. You know, it's great to make a widget that, you know, 1500 people love, love, love, but 1500 people is not a lot of people. So you need to make sure that the addressable market around the business has a lot of users. And again, in Splice's case, you know, they are the content business in music tech. So they can be used in an infinite amount of applications across the business, which gives them, you know, a really solid user base. And so, you know, that's kind of the second thing. And the third thing is that you need to kind of own where you live or have the ability to own where you live. So, you know, it's great if you get into a category in the technology side of the business, that, you know, breaks some ground and shows everybody what can be done. But if then, you know, Apple or Google just says, thank you very much and does it instead of you, it's not so great. So you need to have a defensible business that you can build and scale. And again, back to Splice, you know, they are the content leader and I'm a music publisher by trade, so content is the water supply in the music business. You know, in publishing, it's the song that starts the whole conversation. Splice owns music. And so no matter where the market is going to grow, no matter where it ends up going, they have the supply that feeds the music tech business. And so it's inherently defensible when it gets up to a certain level. You know, at this point they have 3 million works in their database. To catch up to them is, you know, difficult, if not impossible. And so you need to be defensible now on the music side of what I do, which is investing in music companies, there's a couple of things I look for. So first of all, I don't do catalog acquisitions. I invest in people. So the first thing is that you need to have really talented executives that understand music and know how to find repertoire and make it bigger. I tend to like businesses that give advances to artists. There's a certain way, like at Songs, we built a catalog over a long period of time, but we built it through signing young writers and giving them advances. So I call it a mattress out of sheets. If you do that one after another, over many, many years and you do it well, all of a sudden you wake up, you know, 7 to 10, 12 years later, and you're like, holy shit, it's a big catalog. And so I tend to like businesses that advance money to artists and build catalog that way or manage catalog that way. There's a certain magic to understanding how to compensate artists and doing it fairly. So I tend to look at that. You know, the music business has changed a lot. It used to be that if you wanted to be an independent, you needed to own your own vertical. And you know, at Songs, we had our global administration business that we owned and built. We had our own technology. So we were self-contained, standalone competitor. Now I think, you know, solutions have become available everywhere. There's a lot of good publishing administration, a lot of good record distribution solutions. There's a lot of off-the-shelf stuff you can get. It's really about music. It's really about understanding artists and the music that they make and connecting them with an audience. So I look for people who uniquely understand that. Now that can be, you know, somebody who has a geographical lock on a particular kind of music. It can be somebody that has a particularly unique understanding of how the studio works because I think if there's one big change in the music publishing business lately, it's that it's gone really back to the studio. And the interesting companies are actually making songs in real-time in a studio environment. So it can be that. It can be that you have another business that you do and music is associated with it. So why not, you know, get into the music business while you're doing whatever else you do, but you need to have some reason why you have access to a particular group of artists in a particular kind of repertoire, and you're helpful to that in some way or another. And so it's quite a different set of things that I look for on that side than on the technology side. [00:13:34] Dan Runcie: And with the way that your firm is structured, too, I see parallels with the types of companies you're looking at, right? You're not just focused on one particular type of investment area. You have the music tech companies that you're looking at. Splice is an example. You also have the companies that are working more directly in music itself, whether that is giving advances or companies that have a unique edge on who they're reaching. And I think that translates as well when you're talking about the types of companies you're looking at because a lot of times, especially 10, 15 years ago, as you mentioned, there were more silos and now you're starting to see companies have different types of roles that they do or different divisions to try to be this nebulous term that I've heard several times as broader entertainment company. And while I think that that's effective, I could also see how that could challenge some of the challenges of being able to have a business that is defensible or having a moat and the focus that comes with that. So how do you balance that and what are the things that you look for when evaluating companies that are both trying to do it all, but also are trying to have something that they can be defensible with? [00:14:40] Matt Pincus: Well, so on the music side of it, you know, it's about relationships. You know, the good companies, their equity is their relationships with different people around the business. And it's really a human-centric business. So, you know, defensibility often is correlated with reputation in the independent music business, at least. That was certainly true of Songs. One of the big success factors of the company and in fact, like, kind of our asset was that me and Ron and Carianne had really good relationships around the business that we built over many years, and that allowed us to punch above our weight class. You know, when we were a very small business, you know, we acted as a bigger business because we were able to get champions that helped us along the way, both in terms of the artists that were willing to sign with us, but also in terms of, you know, other people around the business that took us on and helped us out. Oddly enough defensibility in the music business is not a patent or a technology or some special recipe you have someplace. It's your understanding of music, the people that make it, and then your ability to develop relationships with people around the business and to keep your reputation such that people want to be with you. You know, on the tech side of it, it's a little bit different. You have to make sure that your innovation curve is constantly there. You have to make sure, like, I would not invest in a business that did not have a technical co-founder. You know, ideas are great. Everybody's got ideas. You know, there's an app for anything. But the real key in, at least in the music technology side of it is you need to be able to spin the technology yourself and understand really how it works, which when you get into the crypto side of it's really interesting 'cause a lot of people understand the implications of it, but they have no idea how the shit works. They don't actually use it. And they get kind of confused thinking that it's much more complicated than in fact it really is. Or, you know, they get so fascinated with the technology that they don't make a product that stands on its own bottom and has value to the end user. So it's a little bit different in the different areas of the market that you look at. And one of the reasons why I like the field that I play on and I feel very lucky to be able to do the different things that I can do with music is because some of it is about sort of analytical, scalable technology-oriented investments. And some of it is just about people in tunes. And so you're kind of mixing a lot of different things together. You know, the one thing that I don't like so much about the recent music business is somehow we all slipped into talking about music as assets and fractional finance and cash flows and securitization. And I'm like, listen, if I wanted to do all that shit, I do it not here. You know, the music business is not assets and finance and cash flows and, you know, securitization. The music business is moving people, motivating people, creating an audience, assembling humans to want what you make, and distributing that and delivering it and all the rest of that stuff. You know, the fact like, listen, what I'm doing is either really smart or really dumb because either you can make a real investment business just out of the music business. And I think you can because there's lots of different types of investments in music and there's lots of growth and lots of possibility. But also, you know, it's a pretty small business. And I live in, play, you know, a neighborhood, the size of a postage stamp. We'll see if they can be done, but I think originally, you know, it starts with the creative and it starts with the means of delivering the creative to the people that want it. And then all of the rest of this stuff, you know, yield, debt payments, multiples on equity, bonds, all the rest of this stuff just is a happy accident that comes from doing your job well.[00:18:35] Dan Runcie: I'm glad you mentioned this because there's a version of what you do that could easily look more like a traditional private equity firm, where they are just going in and doing all of the things that you just mentioned and they're coming more from that perspective, but in many ways, your defense is having this laser focus on music, but you're going deep within all of the areas that it encompasses. And with that, I have to assume that this also maybe has a bit of a flavor on what your take is about the money that has come into the music industry and some of those other non-music companies or those that are purely looking at it for the financial opportunity or for the noncorrelated opportunities and how that in a lot of ways, even though on paper, someone that's fundraising may see the money they can get from you versus the money they get from others. But I'm hearing it from the record labels. And especially the independent ones they're getting reached out to all the time now about acquisitions. And a lot of those calls are coming from non-music related companies that are trying to make those moves. So it's been fascinating to see how that shapes, but I do feel like you are going about this in a much more unique way than a lot of them are.[00:19:49] Matt Pincus: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. I will say that the recent, like, huge inflow of capital into the music business has one very good byproduct, which is it's giving a lot of money to songwriters and artists. Some of these catalogs getting valued at 20 times, 30 times, you know, NPS where they would've been valued at 10, you know, four or five years ago, maybe 10 years ago. It just results in people that make great music, making a bunch of bucks. And there's nothing at all wrong with that. On the catalog side of it, it makes a little bit more sense that some of these like larger capital vehicles are coming into the market and, you know, bidding things up and structuring the leverage in a certain way that makes sense. There's a big difference between what's going on now and what was going on when this first happened, like in 2006, 2007 timeframe because the people that are doing it now can afford it. They've got lots and lots of money. They don't need big returns on that money. They have the ability to structure this stuff financially in ways that don't make no sense. And so it makes, you know, more sense that people are doing that with the IP catalog acquisition business. When it gets to new music, you know, I think it's still a human business. I think you got to know the people, you know, and you have to understand how it's really about managing what I refer to as the working capital of the business. So, you know, you need to advance money, you need to collect that money, you need to reinvest the money. And so a lot of that, you know, it's not a big enough business that you can structure it like a bunch of bonds. You need to kind of understand the market that you're in, how many deals you could possibly get, and what about you ought to pay for them, and what kind of infrastructure you need to address all of that to do a good job. And that's hard to know from outside of the business. It's even hard to know, like there's sort of two lanes in the music business. There's people who came up through the building where they started at majors and they kind of built their career, you know, up from coordinator to director to senior director to VPs, SVP, EVP. And then they end up running the company, a lot of great people who came up that way. And then there's people who kind of feed in the wild. Like, come outside of the building and need to figure out, like, what's available. And there's some real differences, you know. Sometimes they cross over like Ron Perry who was an instrumental person at Songs from, you know, the very beginning to through time we sold and now runs Columbia. So sometimes that happens. Or Carianne who, you know, also was my partner at Songs who now runs Warner Chappell with Guy Moot. It's like there, you know, it happens, but there are really two lanes. And I think in the independent side, it's a lot about systematic A&R so about looking at, listen, none of us are overfunded with tons of money. So, you know, everybody's stretching the dough. And it becomes about how can I build this system in the world that I live that can do deals inexpensively, and then find the ones that are working and invest and push them forward. And all the great independent music companies, you know, Chrysalis, Jive Zomba, A&M Rondor, all the great ones throughout history sort of did that really effectively or were usually like the other ones. So everybody goes to the majors to get their offer. And then there's these other cooler guys that are there, like, you know, kind of fucking with the majors by picking off all the left to center stuff that was us at Songs. You know, and all those other companies I just mentioned were kind of some version of that. But there's kind of, all of these mechanics that come both from history, so understanding the history of the business, but also understanding the people and how they sort of work 'cause as much as the world is changing and it's changing a lot, it's still kind of about A&R. It's still about creative in some way or another. I mean, Carianne's superpower, which she's got many, but the original superpower was understanding not only what works well to picture, but the people that choose music in film and television, advertisements, video games, she's particularly uniquely talented at that. And that's still a core skill that people need to understand. So, you know, I'm the guy that kind of pulls the pieces together. I don't do any of those things. I, you know, originally hired some great people and now I try to invest in great people that do all that stuff, but it's still about understanding it and if you're coming purely from the outside, I think it's challenging.[00:24:22] Dan Runcie: Yeah. And I think your career experience speaks a lot to this, right? You mentioned being able to find the left-of-center opportunities when you're at Songs, whether it was Lorde or The Weeknd. And you saw how those turned out. It worked out brilliantly. I'm curious to hear what you think about the way things are right now because, especially with the way that TikTok is and so many of the companies, whether it's the major labels or the independents, they all have access to the same information. So the cost of acquiring and being able to find and develop those same artists is much more expensive. So what do you think those left-of-center opportunities look like today in the current environment where it feels as if there are more and more outlets to find different types of people, but the way that people are going about it, it does seem like a lot of people are now playing a pretty similar game.[00:25:13] Matt Pincus: You mean like a moneyball...[00:25:15] Dan Runcie: Yeah. [00:25:15] Matt Pincus: ...type of, yeah. So, you know, again, I go back to like, there's sort of in the building and there's outside of the building way of thinking. So in the major system, it makes logical sense that they want to sort of hang back, see what reacts, and go and get it when it reacts, the more predictable something is the more you're willing to pay for it. That makes logical sense. There's nothing wrong with it. They're not idiots for doing that. It's just the way that they traditionally operate. And now it's about, like, seeing the shiny pennies and then grabbing them right away, whatever the cost, because music is much more efficient than it used to be. It used to be that you'd have to, like, release a whole album and sink a bunch of capital into seeing if something works. Now you can kind of tell pretty quickly if something's going to work. So it makes sense to pay a lot for something predictable, as opposed to, you know, paying a little bit for stuff that is wildly uncertain. So, you know, that makes total sense. I think on the independent side, and I really count in that like A&R mentality, like people who are finding artists and developing artists. So it's not just like, you know, independent labels, but it's also like, you know, Electric Feel is a really interesting company that does this, Hallwood. You know, APG is obviously the really great example of this, of finding artists really early and developing them into something or representing people who do that. A lot of, you know, that is about iteration and about understanding, you know, what makes a good story in a particular market. Now, part of that is the music itself. Part of that, most of it is the music itself, but part of that is also all the other stuff around it. You know, how you unfold the narrative, how you stage market entry for an artist. You know, all of those things, again, I come back to the stick to your knitting thing where it's like, as much as the world changes, it kind of remains the same to some degree. So, you know, the interesting and frustrating thing about the music business for people that run companies like I did at Songs is that there's just not that many good, really good, talented people, you know. If there's one structural problem in the music business is there's not enough, really good A&R people, promotion people, you know, creative people. [00:27:29] Dan Runcie: And why do you think that is?[00:27:30] Matt Pincus: I think it's hard, for one, I think it's hard. And as much as people try to play moneyball, now I'm a big believer in systematic A&R, which some people would consider, you know, moneyball. So in other words, like having a funnel that gives you a group of things that might work, that I'm a big believer in that as a starting point, but that only gets you like 51% confidence. That's not much more than a coin toss. The rest of it is really doing the work of developing the product itself, the music itself, and then the story around it. And it's just a hard business, plus you got to know everybody, you know. So it takes a while to develop those relationships and those skills. One of the things that's interesting when I look on the music tech side of it that I think is one of the great things is that the technological development in music production is allowing people to learn how to use the gear quicker. So you're going to have hit singles coming from 13-year-olds within no time at all. And that used to not be possible because it would take you four or five, six years just to learn how to twist the knobs on a board. Like, it was hard. Now with like, you know, presets, with things like Splice, with AI-assisted creation, you know, anything that makes it easier for an artist to get what's inside of them out, the learning curve is becoming less steep. And that's a good thing because talent shines in that environment. You know, it's one thing to be able to, you know, have a knowledge-base to tweak things. It's another thing to just be a talented and expressive artist with urgency. And so maybe some of that will happen. And on the executive side, like on the A&R side, as things like radio, you know, radio's been so monolithic and so hard to penetrate. And now maybe it's loosening up a little bit, but it still takes a while to figure out what's going to work. It's very hard. And it is one thing to be a fan and be like, this is good, this is not good. It's another thing to take a look at something that doesn't yet exist and be like, this is what it will look like if we can pull it off. I don't have that talent, you know. I'm not an A&R person, but I watch people do it and it's pretty miraculous. And it's not just A&R, it's also promotion, which is an undervalued piece of the equation and increasingly, marketing, digital marketing, like the first cut of it was just, you know, sort of advertising on Facebook. Now it's much more sophisticated than that. And so I feel like it's just hard and I wish there were, you know, there's also the part of the problem in the music business is nobody trains anybody. There's no HR infrastructure. You know, I went to Columbia Business School and I had been in the music business. I didn't have one single meeting about a job that came through the school. [00:30:14] Dan Runcie: I'm not surprised. That wasn't the case for me either. [00:30:17] Matt Pincus:  That's what I'm saying like, nobody trained you. I mean, I remember going on a job interview when I was like 21 coming right out of college or 23 coming right out of college with a guy at ICM. And he said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to be an A&R .He said, great, find a band. That was it. That was the interview. And so it's like, it's that kind of business, which is kind of wonderful in its own way, but it doesn't train people really. And so that's also part of the reason. We don't develop our talent, executive talent pipeline in a really great way.  And that's why people like, you know, Mike Caren at APG is so special. You know, the LVRN guys are so special because they bring along executives in a really concerted kind of way. And I wish there was more of that in the business in general. [00:30:58] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think that's a huge opportunity for it. And I think you see a lot of it play out when there are executive shake ups and who gets picked for certain things and why people get picked for certain things. And to some extent, you see this in other places too, whether there's a mix of internal hires versus external. But one thing that I have noticed is the units that do tend to stick together, or there is some continuity there. You do see a lot of success happen if they understand what works, everyone's into it. And I think some of these other places where it could be a bit of revolving doors with who's in leadership, who's trying to get where it's very tough to have that infrastructure. [00:31:35] Matt Pincus: And that was one of the great blessings for me at Songs, which is not, doesn't speak well for the industry, particularly, but, you know, Ron and Carianne were two of the most talented people of their generation for sure. And the business didn't know what to do with them. The fact that I could get the two of them and we could all stay together for 12 years and build a company is like a miracle. And that was a big part of the reason why it all worked is because we knew each other really well and people knew us as a unit. We had different things we did. It's a little bit like, you know, kind of what's going on with the professional sports a little bit too, is, you know, it's great that all these individual players are celebrities. And again, great that athletes are making more money, but great teams don't stay together in the same way that they did before. And I think that's changing a little bit now because you don't have to do a deal with a major and get your money the traditional way in order to build a company. And that's one of the reasons I exist as MUSIC, is because there's opportunities to bring outside capital into the business under terms that look a little bit more like sort of venture capital or private equity, which is in a way more fair than the traditional music business has been on a per transaction basis. There's natural reasons why the major music companies finance the music business for as many decades as they did, and it's not to rip people off, it's because nobody else would do it. But now it's a different world and so hopefully some of these things will change. You know, when you have really great entrepreneurs that own their own business, as opposed to, you know, in some JV with a major that's really a compensation agreement, then it's in their interest, like it was in mine when I was running Songs, to bring along really talented people and find new ones. And so that's one of the things that I've sort of hoped for in some way. [00:33:24] Dan Runcie: Are there any artists that stick out to you as examples of yes, they're building their business and they're doing this the way that could be a blueprint for what we'll see more frequently moving forward?[00:33:34] Matt Pincus: Ones that I talk about all the time is The Weeknd, which we were involved with, you know, from fairly early on. And Sal who's, you know, has been his manager for a very long time, and Cash. You know, I think you're going to see what they did with XO happening in a lot of different ways going forward, where you get a group of people that form a partner and distribute responsibilities between artist, manager. You know, there's people like La Mar Taylor involved with those guys that does all the visual. There's a lot of cooks that need to be in the kitchen to make something really successfully work. The label model of sign to a label, they'll do everything that existed in, like, the nineties is way long gone. Even management where you sort of have somebody who's a commission person that's just doing the business of an artist, that's not true of the good ones anymore. The good ones get in it with the artist and really help them build an entrepreneurial life. I mean, to be an artist now, you need to, like, be like a 140-character joke writer. You need to be an accountant. You need to have a corporate entity. You need to deal with all these different vendors. And you need to be like, you know, P. T. Barnum, like, step right up, step right up, check this out, you're going to love it. It's a complex skill set. And so I think one of the things that you're going to see in the talent representation business, like the management business is I think you're going to see more entity partnership formation, where people are going to go into partnership together. Managers and artists will be like Sal, Sal and Abel have been together for, how long now? Like, I mean...[00:35:08] Dan Runcie: It's at least a decade, right?[00:35:09] Matt Pincus: Yeah. And they've been able to scale and grow and make a lot of money and still be together. And that's because everyone provides value. I'm sure they adjust their relationship, however, over time, I don't know. But I think you're going to see that approach because it takes a village in a way to make really durable stuff. I mean, if you're talking about a viral hit that's here today, gone today. That's one thing. But if you're talking about really building a franchise over a period of time, it requires a lot of work from a lot of people. So I think you'll see sort of, you know, entity formation with partners that include business people and artists in with interest aligned. You know, Diplo's another one. I mean, you know, TMWRK and Diplo have been together for again, going back to since I started working with them. So that was 2011, you know? You look at firms like CRUSH, Jonathan, Daniel has built franchise after franchise of artists that stay with him forever. And he works with him as a partner and that's why it works. So I think you're going to see more of that going forward and and I think that's a good thing.[00:36:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah, definitely. The Weeknd's a very good example because even from the origins of his career, you could see the mentality of where he saw things. Drake famously offered him the opportunity to come on OVO Sound. They had the whole Toronto connection, Drake put him onto that blog post and everything, but then he was like, no, I don't want to be under another artist when I think I can be just as big as that artist, even bigger and do my own thing and look what he's been able to do now. So I think a lot of it...[00:36:41] Matt Pincus: And by the way, the record deal is a distribution deal. [00:36:43] Dan Runcie: Right. [00:36:44] Matt Pincus: You know, I mean, there you go. And so in terms of distribution of value, you know, if you can do it, if you're smart enough to have a cool head and plan like those guys did, you know, you can have a much larger enterprise than you normally would. So I hold them up as an example of, you know, what I think is going to happen and is happening really in lots of different areas of the business now.[00:37:07] Dan Runcie: One of the other areas that has gotten a bunch of attention right now has been syncs, and this has been growing, I think, especially given what we've seen with people, especially from outside the music industry, trying to get more involved, but especially this past summer with Kate Bush being featured in Stranger Things. This conversation has been happening more and more. This is another example where it's a mix of that art and science of what does finding a good sync looks like and what happens with it. And I think so much of it, there's maybe a little bit of luck with just how the internet works and how things take off, but there's also a good amount of work that's put into finding the right type of placement for the right type of artists that could make all those things work to make it happen. So how do you view the opportunities for sync right now? [00:37:53] Matt Pincus: You know, it's interesting. I was sort of a student of Carianne. She taught me the sync business. I literally remember she had a binder where she kept every single interaction she ever had around a song and a placement. And she not only showed me how it all worked, but then we made a software platform out of her own process of how she did it. So I was trained by the best. One of the interesting things about sync is how it always comes back in cycles. You know, when we started Songs, it was like 2004, sync was the whole game. Like, between 2006 and sort of 2009 timeframe, it was the most important thing in a pitch. You know, it was responsible for a lot of our really early successes. And then when it became a largely pop business there in the early days of streaming, it was like sort of radio and super reactive and viral repertoire. It sort of stepped to the background for a minute. And now with the way that kids are bouncing around on a playlist from like, you know, Taylor to like a hip-hop track to, you know, Kate Bush back to Metallica and they don't care. It's become all of a sudden, perhaps one of the top, most important ways repertoire gets discovered now. It's amazing the enduring power of synchronization over time. The thing about sync that I think is interesting is part of it is selection. Like, is this song going to work to picture? But there's a lot that goes into making the deal happen. I mean, that Kate Bush deal as my understanding, I was not involved, but my understanding from, like, just hearing about it was that it took 'em forever to get the clearance done. So a lot of it is not only just is this going to work the picture? Is it the right BPM, the right mood, you know, the right tonality, the right cultural notes, which is a very special thing that music supervisors are particularly good at, but it's also the real politic of like getting the fucking thing cleared. And one of the things that I look at, I tend to have thesis sort of areas when I look at investing in the music business, and one of them is just how fuck the sync business is. That, you know, there should be a buy it now button in the music business if you want to use something for your film, buy it now. And if it was easy, people would pay more. But the problem is they have to roll around a glass to clear a copyright, getting the same deal with 13 songwriters and the master side and it's horribly inefficient. So I think part of the interesting thing with sync in the next generation is how do we do right by the music by making it more usable. Because there's also a couple of different ways this sync business cuts. So, you know, you have stuff that's used in a more traditional sense, and that has a real, like the standard pairing of like, it matter, it makes a huge creative difference and it's very hand selected. Front title and title, you know, big placement in a film television advertisement, but then you have this huge blanket sync business where a lot of the new promotion platform are AV platforms. It's technically synchronization, TikTok, YouTube, you know, Instagram it's technically sync. And I would argue that if there's one element of the business that gives radio a run for its money, it's AV platforms because what happens is people use it in so many videos that you end up hearing the song a thousand times, however many times it takes for you to be like, oh, my God, I have to hear it again. That's really the only place it happens and that's sync. There's a couple of different ways it cuts. You know, the great, like, placements of all time, and we had quite a few of them at Songs that sort of are like, you know, really make a song and make a film. Those are works of art. But also a lot of handling everything else is like maybe 50, 50 at best creative to handling. And so a lot of it is understanding, having those relationships, understanding how to price things, understanding how to clear repertoire, getting permission from the artist to do it. There's a lot of process that goes into it.[00:41:49] Dan Runcie: Is there a sync from your days that song that you look back on that you were like, yeah, that's the one. It took some work, but looking back that's the one. [00:41:56] Matt Pincus: Wow. That's really, that be would a really better question for Carianne than for me. In terms of like the stuff that really made a difference to us as a business, one of the things that I think was meaningful was when Lorde did the Hunger Games soundtrack in the follow-up movie. That gave us a really good look at how music can be a content element in overall entertainment. The Weeknd did a similar thing with Black Panther where, so it was those sort of tie-in, you know, big-ticket where our music was woven into the substance of the film or the ad in some cases. That I think are really the special moments. Those are two that pop out. There's always like the random one where you have a relatively smaller artist and you get them a sync and, you know, it changes their life. It gives 'em more money than they ever thought was possible. There's also the ones, we had an artist who had a very high level of ethic and I won't name the artist, but independent artist, good earnings, but not a pop artist. And we got a $90,000 ad and for very good ethical reasons, he said, fuck, no, it's not going to happen, not going to approve it. And as much as I was like, it was to do early days of the company, it would've made a huge difference to write 90 grand into my books in a quarter. There's some beauty in the level of control that artists have over their own work in the music business that they don't in a lot of other media that I was like, you know what good for him, I guess we're saying no. There's this artisanal component to it that's really special.[00:43:32] Dan Runcie: Yeah. Being able to have that power and knowing when it isn't right. I've heard similar things as well from other podcasters I'll talk to when they get pitched with certain deals and stuff, and they'll be like, you know what, that's just not a product I'm willing to do, or that's just not an endorsement I'm willing to have. And it could have been a game changer for them and their business and everything. But I think we're going to see more of this with creators as they just are leveraging their own independence and being able to make their own decisions. [00:43:59] Matt Pincus: Yeah, exactly. [00:44:00] Dan Runcie: Yeah.[00:44:00] Matt Pincus: Exactly. [00:44:01] Dan Runcie: I want to close this conversation out talking about streaming 'cause I know this is a topic that you've shared a number of insights on over the years. And one of the things that you've said before that has always stuck out to me and resonated is this path that streaming has been on where it has been growing year over year, but a lot of people, especially in recent months, have started to question how many more subscribers out there are willing to pay the full price for streaming services and even if there is growth in some of these other regions where the revenue coming in is only a fraction of what it currently is now, what does that growth necessarily look like? So I hear that there's two camps there. Some people are skeptical about the future, but others are looking at smartphone adoption and just the way that things are trending as an indicator of where things are going. But how do you view the opportunity and especially streaming's growth from here on out. [00:44:55] Matt Pincus: Okay. So I think there's a couple of different things there. You know, one is just on-demand streaming and what the growth curve looks like for on-demand stream. I think the broader question is what does overall growth look like for music consumption going forward? And I'm not sure those are totally the same thing. So, you know, listen, Spotify's done an epic job growing that business. It's a difficult business from just the word go, you know, you're relying on content licenses, you're inherently undifferentiated. Like on paper, it looks like this is impossible. And yet they build an unbelievable business out of it. And I really, you know, sort of think it's worth, you know, whatever opinions people have about streaming, to take a step back and realize that the people who did this originally, you know, Larry Jackson and Apple Music, the people who did it originally did a really fucking tremendous job of making it work. It will mature. There's some debate over whether it may have already started to mature in some distinct ways in Western, you know, sort of developed economies and even maybe in some of the larger sort of secondary territories. The really interesting places that we used to see at Songs in our own data are high population, low discretionary income countries, Indonesia, Philippines, a lot of the African continent. I'm not sure it's necessarily in all of those places going to be an on-demand streaming function that, you know, ultimately wins the day. There are people fucking with a model in a bunch of different ways over mobile. Boomplay in Africa is doing a buyout model. You know, it can be woven with other kinds of entertainment in a bundle in a bunch of different ways. So the question of where on-demand streaming goes, it is a little bit like anyone's guess, but there are different opinions between reasonable people about how the growth curve looks. You know, one of the things that I really love about the web three thing, and I think it's in the early days of really grinding the gears to figure out what actually works, 'cause like this sort of, you know, sucking on the laughing gas tank and you know, watching your crypto go up or over now. So it's entering into like a moment where people actually like have to figure out how it works. But the thing that I think is true is that it's unlocked a premium, that people are willing to pay over the cost of consuming music permanently. How big that premium is, we'll see. I think it was overinflated and inorganic in some of the early times of crypto, not a lot, humans are doing it and they're doing it for high ticket prices, you know, but if you look at some of the stuff, for example, that's going on in Asia, where people are throwing money at artists they like just because they want to you know, people paying sort of eye of the beholder price to be associated with an artist that they feel strongly about, that they love early in their career. Like, that's not going away. So whether, you know, the subscription fatigue is a reality, whether effective penny rates, times units of consumption are going up, flattening, going down. You know, we'll see. I mean, the Goldman Sachs people think they're going to go up forever. I'm not sure I totally agree with that. But what is true is that the willingness of people to invest in artists they love is increasing. And I don't think that's going back to zero, so it may not be, you know, that subgrowth continues on forever and on-demand streaming, but it may be that there are other ways that people can figure out how to engage with artists that keep the value, you know, exchange going up. Now, the one thing about streaming that's interesting is that, you know, the TikTok thing, in ways that people, like, talk shit about it all the time, whatever, but the thing that's interesting is that it did introduce frequency back into the equation. And one of the things about music that's unique is that you need to hear a song a number of times before you like it. Like at first you're like, I hate that. And then you hear it like five times and you're like, maybe I want to hear it again. And then by like, whatever end time you hear it, you're like, I can't get it out of my head. I got to hear it. It's like, Barry Weiss used to call it a record finding its bottom, where it would kind of come out and people would spin it, and then it would drop and then at some level would start to rise again. That's a function of promotion. That's a function of frequency. And in the early YouTube time and on-demand streaming time, you didn't really have that. Like, the people couldn't make something frequently play. And the AV platforms, not only TikTok, but also Snap and Instagram changed that equation and that music needs that. The thing that I'm wondering where it will happen, where it will come back into the equation though, is the music press, which has largely disappeared. And so I'm looking for who, on a consumer level there, people like yourself covering the business, part of it, that are doing an extraordinary job, but who sort of tells people what's good, gets it in front of them, filters it and what does that look like? It's probably not printed on a page. It's probably, it's sort of associated, I think in some way with what's going on with the NFT world, you know, with getting people to buy in, getting a community of people bought to projects, but it's still that same mechanism of filtering. And so I'm wondering where that's one of my thesis areas that I have my on. Where's the next one of those? [00:50:08] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think this is a role that, of course, MTV and so many other places own and were able to do so well decades ago. And now the commonality I've always referred back to is that TikTok in many ways is the new MTV, but it's more so in the broader sense of just the cultural appeal, but not in that solo aspect of yes, if you want to know what this group of people are pushing, or what is the thing that's in, this is the place to go to find that. And I think it's very tough, the way that things are right now, just with how fragmented things are. But people are always going to want to feel like they're part of what's in or feel like they know what's in that desire also isn't going away. So I think there were always be a space for this, no matter how fragmented.[00:50:53] Matt Pincus: And people don't always know what they like. I mean, who knew that all these people love Kate Bush? [00:50:58] Dan Runcie: Right. [00:50:58] Matt Pincus: We all understand why. She's amazing. Song's amazing, but people don't always know what they like until somebody shows it to them and repeats it. And then all of a sudden they can't get it out of their head. And that's the magic of music. So how that happens, you know, the cool kids like it up from the bottom, you know, like to be selective, know about the stuff first. The general audience likes to hear things multiple times and then, you know, be addicted to it. And I think that those things will reinvent themselves in a bunch of different ways going forward. [00:51:27] Dan Runcie: For sure, Matt, before we let you go, do you have one big prediction for us on where you may see things in the next five years or one thing that you think will change from where music is right now to where things will be come 2027?[00:51:40] Matt Pincus: Well, I think as I touched on before, I think younger and younger people are going to be making music that the world reacts. And that is going to be miraculous when it happens. And not necessarily in like a sort of criss-cross Whip / Nae Nae type of way, but in a real, like expressing the core thoughts and feelings they have and getting them out there in a way that sounds good to the world. I think that's going to happen in a bunch of different ways. I think the way that repertoire moves across the planet is going to be revolutionary in the next five years. If there's one thing that's really going to change, you know, it used to be that sort of music went west to east and technology went east to west. Now, I think that's all scrambled eggs right now. If you look at stuff, like, you know, some of the music that's coming out of West Africa right now and how it gets into the global culture. It's not like in a, you know, used to be like you had like a world music business. Like, that's ripped up and thrown away. And so I think, you know, the way that the in-country community relates to the diaspora community in around the globe is going to be really different. You know, I think if there's one thing I have my eye on, it's sort of how all that stuff travels. And obviously, there's some obvious examples like BTS. But I think this is going to happen anywhere and everywhere. And one of the things that I heard somebody say the other day that I felt was really interesting is that the music business thinks about countries in its marketing. You know, they've Europe and Asia and Australia, Canada, US. It should be cities because music is about scenes and it's going to travel that way. And so your Amsterdam strategy is going to be different from your Seoul strategy is going to be different from your São Paulo strategy. And so if there's one like broad thing, I think we're going to look at the way that music travels around the planet in a completely different way. [00:53:37] Dan Runcie: That's spot on. Look at the way we think about music here in the US. That should be an indication of how it should be looked at elsewhere, right? We know what Atlanta hip-hop sounds like compared to what you may hear in LA or even the New Orleans bounce sound. Like, it's so different place to place. So you look at a country like Nigeria, which is soon going to eclipse the US in population. What you may hear in Lagos would be completely different from other parts of the country. So that's a really great point. [00:54:05] Matt Pincus: Yeah. So that would be like, if I, you know, sort of, if I had to obsess about something, it would be that. [00:54:10] Dan Runcie: And I think a lot of people listening probably will too. This is a good one. I think that you got a bunch of notes for people to jot down. So Matt, thank you for making the time for this. This is fun. Thanks for coming on. [00:54:21] Matt Pincus: Thank you so much. I just really appreciate your thinking to me. And it's a pleasure to talk to you about all this stuff.[00:54:27] Dan Runcie: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat, post it in your Slack groups, wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how Trapital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple podcast, go ahead, rate the podcast. Give it a high rating and leave a review. Tell people why you liked the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.

Eugene Sheppard joins his Brandeis colleague John Plotz to speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism--and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy's bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion.... Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us."  Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book."  Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics.  Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business")  Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat.  Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Eugene Sheppard joins his Brandeis colleague John Plotz to speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism--and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy's bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion.... Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us."  Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book."  Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics.  Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business")  Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat.  Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/jewish-studies

Eugene Sheppard joins his Brandeis colleague John Plotz to speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism--and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy's bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion.... Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us."  Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book."  Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics.  Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business")  Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat.  Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literature

Eugene Sheppard joins his Brandeis colleague John Plotz to speak with Joshua Cohen about The Netanyahus. Is the 2021 novel a Pulitzer-winning bravura story of the world's worst job interview? Or is it a searing indictment of ethno-nationalist Zionism--and the strange act of pretense whereby American Jewish writers and thinkers in postwar America pretended that Israel and its more extreme ethno-nationalist strains didn't concern them? Cohen dramatizes the return of that repressed by imagining the family of Benzion Netanyahu (actual medieval Spanish historian and father of Israel's past and present Prime Minister Bibi) landing itself on a would-be assimilated American Jewish family ripped straight from the pages of a Philip Roth or Bernard Malamud novel. With John and Eugene, Joshua dissects the legacy of earlier American Jewish writers like Cynthia Ozick, and offers finer details of how Ze'ev Jabotinksy's bellicose views would ultimately take hold in Israel, wisecracking his way to a literally jaw-dropping conclusion.... Mentioned in this episode: Zionist and ethnonationalist Ze'ev Jabotinksy (1880-1940): "We must eliminate the Diaspora or the Diaspora will eliminate us."  Novalis (the German Romantic writer Georg Von Hardenberg) says somewhere "Every book must contain its counter-book."  Slavoj Zizek makes the case that everything is political including the choice not to have a politics.  Joshua wants readers to think about why celebrated postwar American fiction by Jewish authors like Cynthia Ozick, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, Philip Roth (starting from his 1959 Goodbye Columbus) largely ignores both the Holocaust and Israel until the 1970s or 1980s. Joshua invokes Harold Bloom's 1973 Anxiety of Influence to explain his relationship to them. He is less interested in Hannah Arendt. "Shoah Religion" is the way in which the Holocaust came to not only function as a key element in post-war American Jewish identification but also to legitimate the state of Israel (cf Abba Eban's famous quip "There's no business like Shoah business")  Yekke: a German-Jew in Israel or American characterized by an ethos of industrial self-restraint and German culture, satirized in Israeli culture as a man who wears a three piece suit in the middle of summer heat.  Leon Feuchtwanger "There's hope but not for us" Joshua (subtly) quotes a line of Kafka's that Walter Benjamin (in "Franz Kafka: On the Tenth Anniversary of His Death‟ from Illuminations) apparently lifted from Max Brod ("Oh Hoffnung genug, unendlich viel Hoffnung, — nur nicht für uns.") Yitzhak La'or "you ever want a poem to become real" Netanyahu tells the story of the snowy drive to Ithaca (again) in an interview with Barry Weiss. Philip Roth, The Ghost Writer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/israel-studies

In this week's episode, we discuss Time's person of the year being awarded to President of Ukraine Zelenskyy; the ongoing twitter files release showing how the FBI had infiltrated Twitter, and all of the censorship issues during the election over the Hunter Biden Laptop. We also discuss how the Biden administration essentially gave the Saudi Crown Prince amnesty for the murder of Jamal Kashoggi.   Subscribe and leave a 5-star review! ----more---- Donate to support the show by going to https://givesendgo.com/redpillrevolution   Our website https://redpillrevolution.co/    Protect your family and support the Red Pill Revolution Podcast with Affordable Life Insurance. This is attached to my license and not a third-party ad!   Go to https://agents.ethoslife.com/invite/3504a now!   Currently available in AZ, MI, MO, LA, NC, OH, IN, TN, and WV. Email austin@redpillrevolution.co if you would like to sign up in a different state   FULL TRANSCRIPTION      Welcome to the Revolution. Hello and welcome to Red Pill Revolution. My name is Austin Adams, and what I got for you today is going to be a little bit of a mix of, uh, Zelensky the Ukrainian president, uh, apparently winning time person of the year, which I think is interesting. Uh, then we're also going to discuss how he allegedly has ties to one of the top Valencia designers coming on the backs of the controversy surrounding children and the pictures that, you know, we touched on that for a little bit last time. So we will talk about that correlation here. Then we are going to jump into how a judge dismissed the lawsuit over Jamal Khashoggi murder. After specifically the Biden administration backed his immunity, uh, for the Saudi Crown Prince. Uh, then we will go into all things Twitter gait. Now, if you have not heard, and you may not have at this point, uh, Twitter gate is the release of files from Elon Musk outlining kind of what happened during the election cycle with Hunter Biden's laptop. If you recall, there was tons of censorship, tons of warnings, a whole bunch of shenanigans going on during the elections, uh, between Donald Trump and President Biden. Uh, so we will jump into all that, see what they had to say, see what the implications of that are. Uh, we will also talk a bit about, uh, what Elon Musk has talked about recently. Uh, he's currently being investigated over some stuff, uh, as a result of this Twitter gate. Some people. As a kind of pushback from the federal government for doing so. And he also said that he wanted to rightfully punch Kanye West in the mouth, , which we will talk about also. And, and I don't disagree with him because he's just been, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that first. Alright, but , but . But before I forget, go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Leave a five star review. It would mean the world to me. It takes two seconds out of your day and it really does help out. So please, um, write something that you love about the show. Write your favorite episode, whatever that is. I would truly, truly appreciate it. It takes, again, two seconds. Hit that five star review and it would make me feel good. Yeah, that's what it would do. I'd do a lot of other things too, like help us in the ratings and all that stuff. Get us pushed out to more people. Get this message in front of. But I digress. Thank you for listening and let's jump into it. Welcome to Red Pill Revolution. My name is Austin Adams. Red Pill Revolution started out with me realizing everything that I knew, everything that I believed, everything I interpret about my life is through the lens of the information I was spoonfed as a child. Religion, politics, history, conspiracies, Hollywood medicine, money, food, all of it. Everything we know was tactfully written to influence your decisions and your view on reality by those in power. I'm on a mission, a mission to retrain and reeducate myself to find the true reality of what is behind that curtain. And I'm taking your ass with me. Welcome to the Revolution, Ry. Let's jump into it. And I did say that we would talk about this first. So , I will do it and I should probably get it out of the way. Uh, if you recall, I have put out some videos. I have talked in depth about what was going on with Kanye West. So let's address this situation. Kanye West has since gone off the rails. I have not listened to the full Alex Jones interview, but there was about 15 minutes of highlights that I will save you from. Uh, but I will go listen to the full thing to see and get my real thoughts on this. But from the clips that I listen to and the context, which again, I don't have the full context of the things that he said, but it sounds a lot like. What people were accusing Kanye West of is true. Now, originally, originally, what Kanye West did was if you were not up to date on this situation, Kanye West was calling out industry elites. He was calling out specifically the owners of entertainment companies that own all of the athletes contracts, all of the musicians contracts, all of the, uh, famous people that you know, models all of them. And, and he was calling them out for giving unfair business practices and doing shady business deals. Now he was also calling them out for making him look crazy and, and all of this stuff too. Now, if you have any background on this, you know that there's definitely some truth to these things, right? You understand that there are elite individuals and, and some people hate the word elite, but it's the word that we got, sorry guys. Elite individuals, billionaires, trillionaires around the world who are owners of these large companies and, and they pedal influence socially and make people look terrible. They, you know, potentially Epstein people, all of that type of crazy stuff. So Kanye West came out and, and made a, a big huge podcast interview rounds with all of the larger podcasts that are out there, and he just stopped with info war. With Alex Jones. Now, I, I don't know why he thought Infowars was the place to do this, but he went wild on Infowars. He literally, word for word, said that he loves Hitler. And you, you saw Alex Jones try to like, backpedal him and say like, well, you don't love Hitler. You love the, because I guess they were talking about, you know, the, uh, if you didn't know that the Nazi uniforms were created by Hugo Boss. Interesting. Right? Uh, They were talking about that and Alex Jones go, well, you didn't love that. You loved their fashion. Right? You don't love Adolph Hitler. You love, you know, what, what their fashion was. And he goes, no, there's a lot of things about Nazis that I like. . He, he, I think even at one point he said, I love Nazis. Like all of the wrong things that you say in his position when people were already calling you antisemitic for, specifically pointing to the Jewish Cerian mafia out there that is allegedly controlling news media, controlling entertainment industries and, and calling people to at least pointing it out and trying to raise awareness surrounding what's happening here. And you know, in the same way that you talk about the Italian mafia, and you're not talking about Italian people, there's something to be said that you can speak about a group as an organiz. Due to their ties to one another, and have it not be specifically in a negative connotation about whatever it is that ties to them together. Right? You can have an organization like the Italian Mafia and say, I hate the Italian Mafia. I don't like what they stand for. They kill people. They're terrible people. The Italian Mafia is just a horrible, horrible organization. And then people come in and start going, oh, you're racist against Italians. It's like, no, I'm talking about the ones who kill people. And they just so happen to have. Ties personally to each other. That is the result of Lineage. And in this case it's lineage slash religion as Judaism is, uh, so, and Jewish individuals. So, so that's kind of the differentiation that I find myself in when we're talking about these things. There are absolutely an overwhelming majority of people who own entertainment industries and, and are a part of that elitist class who, who just so happen to be Jewish now. That's nothing against the Jewish race or Jewish class or religion or, uh, lineage. Nothing at all against that. They're just so happens to be that tie and when you call on that tie, not on the things that are actually related to that religion or lineage. Right? That that should not be an issue. So if you talk about the Italian mafia, the Italian mafia is bad. You talk about Jewish, uh, the, the, the Jewish Cerian Mafia, whatever, that some people coin the term, right? All of the people who have, you know, passed down the, the, uh, conspiracy bloodline type things, the George Soros is the Rockefellers, the, you know, go, the list goes on and on. But they all have some sort of ties and the portion of them just so happened to be Jewish, and that was what it seemed to be that what Kanye West was alluding to originally. Now, he went off the rails and just started spewing what is actually antisemitism to say that you support Nazis to say that you like Adolph Hitler in, in any way, shape or form. And like I said in the original one, there's nothing you can do to defend that, right? There's absolutely nothing right now. You can, I, I, I feel like in the same way that you can call it the Italian mafia, Not because they're Italian, but because they're a mafia . It's like where it really comes into play. But that's my 2 cents now. We'll jump into that more when we talk about Elon Musk wanting to punch Kanye in the face. But I did just wanna get outta that. The way I don't support Kanye West in this sense, I don't agree with him on that at all. I think what he said was obviously horrible and terrible and shouldn't be repeated. And in a world where we're only what one and a half generations removed from World War ii, barely one generation removed from World War ii, this is not what we want to spread right now. We should absolutely call out people who are disproportionately negatively affecting culture in society and, you know, social engineering in the, in the worst ways, which is obviously a very real thing in these elitist individual trillion, billion. But once you start calling an entire group based on their religion, ethnicity, lineage, that's obviously not a good thing. Don't do that. Right. So not on the Kanye, Kanye Western, uh, I, I jumped off. Um, but I do still agree with some of the things that he was calling out as far as the, uh, you know, entertainment industry preying on, you know, and then specifically, you know, was what he was saying was black individuals and, and people who are minorities and putting them into terrible contractual relationships, controlling the media, calling people crazy and making it real because they own every outlet that you could do it on. Right. Anyways, I digress. Let's move on to the next topic here, which is going to be that the president of Ukraine, president Zelensky, was named Times person of the year. You heard that right? President Zelensky was named Person's Time. Person's time of the Year, times person of the year. And this is just, I mean, I don't even know what to say. So this article comes from Forbes, . There's probably a couple other people who maybe deserve it. Now, obviously, he's dealing with a tremendous amount of pressure, a tremendous amount of stress, and in the public eye has handled it fairly well. Now, there's been tons of propaganda surrounding zelensky and the things that he said like, I don't need a ride. I need ammo. It's like, you know that maybe that didn't happen. This according to some sources, but let's read on this right here. Ukrainian President Voir Zelensky, was named Times person of the year for 2022 on Wednesday in recognition of his time as Ukrainians leader during Russia's invasion, as Ukrainian forces doubt their deepest attack on Russian soil this week. It talks about the key facts are the magazine emphasizes Zelensky decision to stay in Kiev at the start of Russia's invasion in February, noting how the former comedian became an immediate rallying cry for his country, at least. They call him what he is.  A comedian, uh, Zelensky has held nightly speeches through social media and has continued to speak with the media, including his involvement during a recent New York Time summit, Aaron Judge who broke the single season American League record for home runs while winning the League's MVP award for the New York Yankees was named Athlete of the Year and timed named Black Pink, the Entertainer of the Year. Not even sure who that person is. Hmm. Right. Here's a quote that they call out here, which is that already the next generation of Ukrainians, like Zelensky own son, were learning about the tools of war. Instead of planning for prosperity, the magazine wrote about Zelensky wartime leadership. That is the pattern the president aims to disrupt, and his plans rely more than, relies more on weapons, relies on more than weapons, sorry. All right. Now, uh, this says key background talking about Adolph Hitler. Uh, the time person of the year categorically has historically been associated with people who have been most influential during this year, ranging from previous title holders like Greta Thornberg and Pope Francis, two, Vladimir Putin and Adolph Hitler. Thank you Forbes for calling it as it is. Just because you get Times person of the year does not mean that you are an incredible individual. As a reminder, a Dolf, Hitler and Vladimir Putin himself have both been called persons. F times person of the year. So both Putin and Hitler have been Times person of the year. So take this with a grain of salt is he Times person of the year. Again, he's dealt with tremendous amounts of stress and, and in the public eye he's dealt with it well. There is such a reminder that should be made as he's an actor comedian to begin with, who loves to dance in leather pants. But again, I can't, I can't imagine the amount of stress on these people. So, you know, take my commentary for what it is, but I just find it comical that a literal comedian and actor turned president turned puppet for NATO is Times person of the year. Like the, I really am not immediately coming up with answers as to who this should have been, , um, but maybe, maybe Elon Musk, if he's never been it, I, I would say he's probably had a tremendous impact, um, maybe even more so than Zelensky being a puppet for nato. And, uh, You know, coming up with comedic gold dancing videos in leather pants. Anyways, all right, so the next thing is going to be that we're gonna discuss here is going to be that Zelensky tapped top Valencia designer to oversee charity for Ukrainian refugees. So the same guy who got called Times person of the year was calling on a top Valencia designer to oversee the charity for Ukrainian refugees. You know, the Valencia that was actively engaging in endorsing pedophilia was the one that the president of Ukraine called on to head charities for Ukrainian refugees. You literally cannot make that up. That is a crazy correlation. Causation, who knows? But correlation nonetheless, that Zelensky is working with a top Balenciaga designer. Especially when we're talking about the recent news and all of the things that just came out about Valencia with their satanic pedophilia based ad campaigns all over. Right. And we're finding it that I'm, one thing I'm really happy about with the Valencia thing, and I guess happy isn't the right word, but it, but it, it's relieving to know that these things are still in the public conversation. They're still being, uh, pushed towards good. Right? Because the more people that wake up to this stuff, the more that it becomes a conspiracy theorist that, that these things are going on, uh, or a conspiracy theory that these things are going on, the more that it gets a negative light shut on it. But what the negative light should be shut on is Valencia not the people calling them out for doing, for endorsing pedophilia. The, the, the light should be shed on Zelensky for paying a topia designer to oversee a charity, which is very likely for children, refugees in Ukraine. Probably not the person that you would want to do that with. Uh, so let's read this real quick and see what it has to say. It says, UK Ukraine. Ukrainian President, Zelensky over the summer had recruited top fashion brand, Valencia's creative director to oversee a charity supporting Ukrainian refugees, United 24, which builds itself as a charity, aimed at rebuilding Ukraine and helping refugees claimed in July that Valencia's artistic director, DEMA, who only goes by his first name, would become the organization's ambassador, Demna artistic director for Valencia, selected as ambassador for United 24. He will be exclusively dedicated to rebuild Ukraine, direction for helping refugees. The charity tweeted, which included a link to its website. Now, if I call re, if I recall correctly, Demna was in a big piece of this all, a big piece of it. Now it goes on to say that the humanitarian rebuild Ukrainian direction focuses exclusively on the renovation of critical infrastructure facilities such as roads, bridges, hospitals, and schools to enable refugees to come back to their homes and restart their lives. This came before Valencia was recently embroiled in a scandal over its disturbing ad campaigns, overseen by Denmark, specifically featuring children holding teddy bears in BDSM outfits in a hidden Supreme Court document over to turning a child pornography law. So Zelensky literally hired the person who is the head of directing the Valencia campaigns or surrounding pedophilia to run a refugee program out of Ukraine. There's no way that that's not in some way, shape, or form tied the fact that that comes up and immediately this becomes a conversation. There's no way these things don't have at least a, a, a thin string of yarn connecting them. Says Valencia has since scrubbed its social media presence before issuing numerous apologies after weeks of silence. Demos last, uh, week issued an apology for incorporating a child in BDSM and a cult themed Valencia, a campaign that erupted into a full fledged scandal that culminated with former fans burning Valencia merchandise in protests of its pedophilia. Themes. Themes. This was his response. I want to personally apologize for the wrong artistic choice of concept for the gifting campaign with the kids. And I take my responsibility. It was inappropriate to have kids promote objects that had nothing to do with them. The 41 year old wrote on Instagram, I apologize to anyone offended by the visuals in Balenciaga has guaranteed that adequate measures will be taken not only to avoid similar mistakes in the future. Geez, I hope so. But also to take accountability in protecting child welfare in every way we. Including likely abducting Ukrainian refugees? Oh, allegedly. Speaking of a cultism, in some bizarre new iteration of asymmetric warfare, Ukrainian's Ministry of Defense announced Monday I had recruited actual witches to cast hexes and curses on Russian soldiers. What, what , okay, let's read that one. That's interesting. It says, notably, Ukraine has also been leveraging the openly neo-Nazi as of battalion who's been captured on video conducting pagan blood and soil rituals. What's with Ukraine's ties to the ult? The creation of the charity is curious given, uh, Ukraine's already received tens of billions of dollars from US taxpayers to prop up its war against Russia and launder money Back to Democratic campaigns. Where did all that money go? Uh, and here's the Instagram post that's posted by the defense of Ukraine, which is defense you at on Twitter. It says, render unto God that which belongs to God, and unto the enemy that witches of the enemy beware enemy, you'll get what the witch wants. Volunteers dressed as witches, sending love to our soldiers in the opposite of our enemy, the opposite to our enemy. Wow. What a interesting choice to post on your website. Okay. That's pretty wild. Now, there is like all of the occultism that's going on, all of the, the, the subtweeting of Satanic rituals and, and all of the elitist propaganda that's coming out, trying to portray people who call this out conspiracy theorists and all of this stuff. It's so unbelievable because of how many times it's been rubbed in our face and how many times it's been proven correct. Right. You look at Epstein, you look at Valencia, you look at all of these situations, all of the, the, the Harvey Weinsteins, the, the Bill Clinton, uh, logs to the White House with Epstein there, all of the ties, all of them. And, and it's literally just shoved in your face. And if you deny that there's a, a theme amongst ultra billionaire, rich, elite social groups and sat. Rituals and pedophilia at this point. You are just so naive. It's unbelievable, and you should likely do a lot of research into it because this is something that, while it's easier not to pay attention to, it's easier to not have to formulate an opinion and talk about consistently. It's not helpful to ignore because what if that was your child, right? What? What if that was your child? Even just talk about the Balenciaga campaign. Even if that was just your child in that photograph, your child now for the rest of their life, the rest of their life is now going to at least personally identify with that being that person that was in that, or other people are gonna notice who they are, right? And I hope those parents of the children in the Balenciaga campaigns sue the absolute. Hell outta Valencia and get as much money as possible for positioning their children in the way that they're taken advantage of for these sexualized Satanic ad campaigns. So who would've thought that Zelensky would've hired the same person that was in charge of the Valencia ad campaigns to run a refugee charity, which involved children? That just seems like the literal, worst idea in the world. And, and again, it just talks about the strings that are tied between everything that is going on and these very high up societal, political things that are going on, and it should terrify you. So the next thing, now this, what we're about to discuss is about, uh, Jamal Khashoggi. Now, if you do not know about the situation, it is a atrocity. The man was a journalist. Um, Jamal Khashoggi was a journalist from, uh, I believe Saudi Arabia. Let me go ahead and read it through it here. Um, but I, but I watched this whole documentary on what happened here and what actually occurred. And the reality of it is, is, again, just, just horrifying. So let's, let's actually listen to this. Let's, there's a, a little trailer from the actual movie that I have up here that should explain some of this for you here. So here we. My name is Ha Genius. I am addressing you as a victim. A title forced on me After the brutal murder of my Jamal Jamal Khai, prominent Saudi journalist in Washington Post columnist, has gone missing. After visiting his country's consulate in Istan, he was last entering Saudi Arabia's consulate, taking paperwork to marry his fiance. His fiance saw him go in at 1:00 PM and was still waiting for him at 1:00 AM. Moha, tell me what happened to Mr. Khashoggi Saudi Arabia. Now suddenly there's admitting that Haggi did die. Die Inside that building, Jamal K he's saying that he was killed and, and greeted me. As if I shut the king. We knew that they would try to sweep the whole thing under direct. Is it true that Turkish intelligence obtained audio recordings to show he's murder? I know why Jamal was killed. It's because of me. And here, just so I can read it to you, it says someone may have easily watched everything that went on. So they're talking about there being cameras inside of the building in which he was the consulate in which he was murdered. We've been given orders. He saved some, particularly down in peace of the puzzle, like Saudi body. Double Jamal filled the whole country was against him of this another truth. I said, the best solution is create our own priority. The king firmly denied any knowledge of it. It could have been rogue killers. Who knows? I just received this. Be careful. Move from city to another one and there's a team is going to kill you soon. It's anonymous. He has to be killed in a way that will send message to everyone else because if you kill Jamal is Pepper. Who else you cannot kill? You can't kill everyone. All right, so there's the trailer coming from that movie I highly recommend. You should see it. It's called The Dissident, and I believe I watched it on one of the mainstreaming platforms. So it's called The Dissident, and you should absolutely watch it. It it gives you some really crazy insight to this situation. He was basically went into this consulate and he, he was a high, um, called out the government a lot, fairly consistently for what was going on. I believe I even did a bit of a podcast episode on it. Uh, so I would definitely recommend going back and seeing him when that it was, but The Dissident was a tremendous documentary that outlined this very well, and he went into the consulate and was basically from the evidence that they gathered in this documentary, was beheaded and murdered in front of some type of like webcam where the crown princes. Was allegedly giving orders on what to do and how to kill him. And so this is just to preempt what happened here, because what ended up happening this week, yesterday, I believe, yeah, yesterday, was that the Biden administration backed immunity for Muhammad bin Solomon, who's the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. So the president of the United States called on this man the Crown Prince of Mohamed bin Solomon to gain immunity for doing this. And it came true. A judge dismissed a suit against in connection to Jamal Khashoggi death. The suit was filed by Khashoggi fiance who accused MBS of ordering his death to silence him. Khashoggi was murdered after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in October of 2018. The US federal judge on Tuesday dismissed a lawsuit against, uh, Saudi Crown Prince, uh, Mohammad bin Solomon over the brutal murder of Washington Post journalist and Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi. The decision came just weeks after the Biden administration contended with the Saudi ruler, often referred to as MBS should be granted immunity. Judge John Bates, in opinion, said that despite the court's uneasiness and the credible allegations of his involvement in Khashoggi, killing the US has informed the court that he is immune. So MBS is therefore entitled to head of state immunity. Wow. So you can literally get immunity from murdering somebody on outside consulate territory for being a part of a political party in a different country. Ever heard of Crimes against You, man? I mean, this is just ho like what kind of precedence does this set for? And this was a New York, what was it? A New York, um, what was, where was he affiliation? I just said it. New York Times or, or, uh, New York Post. The New York Post journalist. So a, a very well known Washington Post journalist. Um, sorry. And he was murdered horrifically in a consulate and we're just gonna do nothing and even throw out the case based on the, a Biden administration saying that he should not be charged with this. Khashoggi disappeared after visiting the Saudi Consulate in this damn bull in 2018 to obtain documents related to his upcoming marriage. It was later revealed that a group of Saudi Abs agents ambushed him inside the consulate, strangling him before dismembering and disposing of his body. The following month, the CIA concluded that MBS ordered Khashoggi killing. So the CIA literally came out and said that he did this. And then the Biden administration came out and said, nah, we don't care. He's immune. You can literally be head and murder people in any consulate you want, as long as you have enough money in the bank or enough power. Says that a declassified intelligence report released that by the Biden administration last year explicitly implicated MBS and Khashoggi killing. We assessed that Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammad bin Solomon approved in operation in Istanbul Turkey to capture or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi MBS has denied that he ordered the, uh, Khashoggi killing. The lawsuit was filed two years after Khashoggi death by his fiance, Hadis Singes, and accused MBS of ordering the Saudi journalist's death in order to silence him. So imagine being her, you literally have a husband who speaks up and speaks out against these horrific acts by the Saudi princes, by, by the Saudi government. He goes into a consulate and is literally murdered, beheaded, horrifically, strangled to death. And then the CIA comes out and says that he, the mbs, the crown or the Saudi crown Prince was at fault for this. The CIA said that. And then Biden then grants him immunity. Imagine being that woman and imagine feeling like the whole world is against you. Cause what stops them from just murdering her? Now why would they not do that if they're immune from everything that can go on and every, uh, uh, outcome that, that can be? Why would you not just, you know, murder all of your, your political opponents? What, what type of precedent does this set? Cuz that, that's, that's a terrifying thought. Let's see if there's anything else in here. Um, she tweeted, we thought maybe there would be a light to justice from the usa. Jamal died again today. She said, wow. So, uh, president Biden has faced widespread backlash over his approach to US Saudi relations on the campaign trail. Biden pledged to make the oil rich kingdom a pariah over Khashoggi murder. When he came into office, Biden vowed to recalibrate the relationship between Washington and rta, including by ending US support for the Saudi Lake Coalition. The devastating Yemen war MBS is considered the architect of the war, which has for fostered what's been described as the world's worst humanitarian crisis. Hmm, interesting. Wow. It literally got away with murder in this case, and it was because of Biden's immunity. So now there's what we got on that front. Now we're going to move into the Twitter files, but before I do that, what I'm gonna do first is ask that you please. Hit that subscribe button. Takes two seconds, and then you can join us every single week for conversations like this, updates on current events, uh, things that are happening around the world, things that I wanna talk about, and then also upcoming interviews that we're gonna be doing, talking about, uh, questioning narratives that have been giving to us societal structures and, and all of those things that we've talked about before. So, get on the subscription list, go over to Red Pill revolution.co and sign up for the SubT stack. Uh, join us on YouTube on Rumble. All of the video podcasts are posted there. Uh, every single week. We have clips, Instagram, truth, social, uh, everywhere else. We got Bann off of TikTok recently, so I started another one. Um, so there's that, that one is RPR with Austin Adams. And, uh, go find me there. All right. Next thing, if you would like to donate, uh, and help this show continue, you can help fuel the Revolution by going to give send go.com/red pill revolution. Give send go.com/red pill revolution. And I would appreciate it so much. All right. Put a lot of work into this and I appreciate your support more than, you know. It really helps to keep me going, so, alright, let's move on. The next thing that we're going to be discussing here is going to be the Twitter files. So this is being, uh, being, this has been called Twitter gate and it is essentially, uh, Elon Musk has come out and released the files, all of the internal documents and communications surrounding Hunter Biden's laptop. Again, if you recall the Washington Post, speaking about the Washington Post released information and released all of the files surrounding Hunter Biden's laptop, calling on the corruption, calling on the weird sexual escapades drug conversations, the, uh, business dealings happening in Ukraine of all places. Who would've thought, uh, in all of these other things that were going on, and China and all of them. So they released that information. Twitter went ahead, and as soon as this started to spread like wildfire, Twitter, shut it down. They made sure that nobody was going to be able to see these, these types of, uh, conversations. They tried to, they literally, like, I'm pretty sure they, they suspended the Washington Post for posting it. It was all under the guise of hacked materials. Even though the laptop was legally obtained, nobody's ever been arrested. Nobody hacked it at all. It was owned by the computer repair shop that Hunter Biden dropped his laptop off that. And so there was all this internal dialogue, all of these internal, you know, emails and things that were going across, uh, different departments within Twitter and Elon released it all, released it all. And there were some really, really interesting things that happened within these conversations. Some things that we will go over and we'll go basically step by step, line by line on every single tweet, um, and just kind of see if there's anything that we see. So this was a released by Matt Taibi, which is at M T A I B B I on Twitter. And Matt Taibi is one of the favorite journalists of many, many people today. He's an independent journalist who has a sub stack, uh, that has a lot of good UpToDate materials, is one of the places where I like to get a lot of my news from. He's a tremendous journalist and was trusted by Elon Musk to release these in a way that was, uh, and he is probably one of the most trusted known journalists today, so it was very smart of them to do that. So it starts by saying thread. Number one, the Twitter files. And I'm going to go ahead and sip this. What is it? Um, French Toast, I forget. It's by founders, uh, French Toast Bastard by Founders. It's a vanilla cinnamon maple beer, which tastes like cinnamon Toast Crunch. It's delicious. So if you see it around you, it's pretty good. Try it out and, oh, I didn't even take a sip. Here we go. Cheers to you. All right, so number one, the thread says the Twitter files, and it just goes line by line. And he goes kind of like sentence by sentence on this. So he says, what you're about to read is the first installment in a series based upon thousands of internal documents obtained by sources at Twitter, the Twitter files tell an incredible story from inside one of the world's largest and most influential social media platforms. It is a Frankenstein tale of a human built mechanism grown out of the control of its designer. Twitter and its conception was a brilliant tool for enabling instant mass communication, making a true, real time global conversation possible for the first time. In an early conception, Twitter was more Twitter, more than lived up to its mission statement, giving people the power to create and share ideas and information instantly without barriers. As time progressed, however, the company was slowly forced to add these barriers. Some of the first tools for controlling speech were designed to combat the likes of spam and financial fraudsters. Slowly over time, Twitter staff and executives began to find more and more uses for these tools. Outsiders began petitioning the company to manipulate speech as well, first a little then more often than constantly. By 2020, requests from connected actors to delete tweets were routine. One executive would write to another. More to review from the Biden team. The reply would come back handled. So what this is showing here is an email coming from the Biden administration calling on spec, specific tweets, specific tweets for them to be taken down and not handled, not, we've looked into this, not we're gonna check it out and see if it violates our guidelines handled. Now, that's an important distinction in the way that we're looking at this, because handled means I did your bidding, not, I did what was under our guidelines. And I think that's an important call out to make here, is that it's not about them following their own guidelines. Now, I think that in almost every situation, besides maybe the one where Kanye is gonna get punched in the face by Elon. Elon, metaphorically for posting a swastika, which we'll talk about next. Almost all free speech should be allowed in almost all settings, right? And, and even at swastika, you just show that you're a piece of shit by posting it. So maybe people should know that you're a piece of shit, not that, you know, maybe we shouldn't hide your stupidity from everyone. Maybe we should show everybody how dumb you are by allowing it to be up there. But that's a separate conversation. So, um, handled is an important term, not we're gonna look into this, not we're gonna check it out, no handled. We did it, we did it for you because you sent it to us. Now it goes on to say the celebrities and unknowns alike could be removed or reviewed at the behest of a political party. Now this email is, uh, starts off by saying, I grabbed the first one under si deferred to safety on the high profile. Second one, the high profile, second one being real. James Woods, the first one being Stephan Luan. Um, but what that's saying is it wasn't just regular everyday people, it was celebrities too. It goes on to say that both parties had access to these tools. For instance, in 2020 requests from both the Trump White House and the Biden campaign were received and honored. However, the system wasn't balanced. It was based on contacts. Because Twitter was and is overwhelmingly staffed by people of one political orientation. There were more channels, more ways to complain open to the left than the right, and it shows that 99.7% of all contributions to political parties within this company went to the Democratic Party, which is no surprise with it being in Silicon Valley. Then it goes on to say the resulting slant in content moderation decisions is visible through the documents that you were about to read. However, it's also the assessment of multiple current and former high level executives. Now he goes on to say that the Twitter file is part one. How and why Twitter blocked the Hunter Biden laptop story. It says On October 14th, 2020, the New York Post published, gosh, I got it mixed up again. It was the, I thought it was the was. It was the New York Post, not the Washington Post that did it published Biden Secret emails and the expose based on the contents of Hunter Biden's abandoned laptop. Twitter took extraordinary steps to suppress the story, removing links and posting warnings that it may be unsafe. They then even blocked its transmission via direct message. A tool here to reserved for extreme cases such as child pornography, white House spokesperson, Kayley Mc McNay.  Was locked out of her account for tweeting about the story. Prompting a furious letter from Trump campaign staffer Mike Hahn, who see it to at least pretend to care for the next 20. So this email is from one of the heads of the Trump campaign and says Kaylee McNaney has been locked out from her account for simply talking about the New York Post story. All she did was cite the story on firsthand reporting that has been reported by other outlets and not disputed by the Biden campaign. I didn't answer immediately on when and how she will be unblocked. I also don't appreciate how anybody on this team called me regarding the news, how nobody on the team called me regarding this news that you'll be censoring news articles. Like I said, at least pretend to care for the next 20 days. This led to public policy executive Carolyn Strom to send out a polite WTF query. Several employees noted that there was tension between the comms and policy teams who had little less control over moderation and the safety and trust teams. And the email there said, hi team. Are you able to take a look closer here? Thank you. STRs note returned the answer that the laptop story had been removed for violations of the company's hack materials policy. And that's kind of the thing that you see even in these. Emails that they, they knew it was bullshit. They knew the hacked material stuff was bullshit. They didn't, they knew it wasn't gonna stick. They even talked about it. And we'll look at that here in just a second. But they talked about how is this even something that we can legally stand by when? And if it comes to that, because they knew that it was bs. And so they said, oh, it's about the hack materials policy, even though they had no reason to believe that it was hacked materials at all. And here's the next one, says, although several sources recalling hearing about a general warning from federal law enforcement that summer about possible foreign hacks, there's no evidence that I've seen of any government involvement in the laptop story. In fact, that might have been the problem. Now, what is a, what a they're kind of, Matt is discussing here is the fact that CEO of mea, mark Zuckerberg went on Joe Rogan and said that the FBI specifically called on him to. Keep an eye out for Russian disinformation specifically about the Hunter Biden laptop story, if I'm recalling correctly. And so there was a lot of backlash surrounding that. Probably not nearly enough as there should be about the FBI weaponizing its political ties and corporate ties to help sway the election. But nonetheless, they did it. And so this goes on to say, although several sources were called hearing about a general warning, right? Then we just read that the decision was made by the highest levels of the company, but without the knowledge of CEO Jack Dorsey, but with former legal head of or former head of Legal Policy and trust, Vijaya Gad playing a key role. Now also, if you recall, Vijaya went onto Joe Rogan with. Or I'm with Jack Dorsey. Jack Dorsey went on Joe Rogan, but brought a, the head of legal of his team to discuss this all because she was the one that made these decisions. Right. And everybody's kind of pointed the finger at Jack Dorsey, but a lot of people have come to Jack Dorsey's defense. Apparently a lot of this Jack Dorsey didn't know anything about, which becomes a bigger issue when you're, you know, a large corporation controlling the flow of information and conversation surrounding the whole world, but specifically from the standpoint of one political ideology in one country. Right? That seems to be a big issue here, especially when it comes to the tech world. The tech world is overwhelmed by liberal ideology and not just like your buddy who is a supporter of, uh, democratic belief systems. Uh, the healthcare system and abortion, not just like your but but far left individuals in one of the most liberal places in the world. A an extremist ideology in many senses. Just as much as there is an extremist ideology on the very far. Right. Right. So it's like, I wouldn't want either of those sides to control the political conversations that are happening or even the regular conversations because they're going to want to skew it in the way that benefits their ideology. And that's not a good thing for humanity. There should always be checks and balances, right? There's literally nothing good about the two party system. But if I had to say something good about it is that it balances each other right there. There, there's a checks and balances in the way that half of the country agrees with this, and half of the country agrees with that. And so maybe decisions aren't made as hastily and as once it comes to extreme ideology, you're gonna have a lot of pushback from at least half of the. Right. So anyways, it goes on to say that, uh, quote, they just freelanced it is how one former employee characterized the decision hacking was this excuse. But within a few hours, pretty much everyone realized that that wasn't going to hold, but no one had the guts to reverse it. You can see the confusion in the following length, the exchange, which ends up including GAD and former Trust and Safety Chief UL Roth Comms Official. Trent Kennedy writes, I'm struggling to understand the policy basis for marking this as unsafe. So he goes into and is a little irritated by this. So let's read the whole thing and it says Trent and Kennedy. I'm struggling to understand the policy basis for marking this unsafe. And I think the best explainability argument for this externally would be that we're waiting to understand if the story is the result of hack materials. We'll face hard questions on this if we don't have some kind of solid reasoning for marking the link Unsafe. Yeah, as you should, right? So, Next, the one says, by this point, everyone knew that this was fucked, says one former employee, quote . But the response was essentially to air on the side of continuing to air. Um, so here it says, this is the email from UL Roth, the policy basis attack materials. Though as discussed, this is an emerging situation where the facts remained unclear. Given the severe risks here in lessons of 2016, we're airing on the side of including a warning in preventing this content from being amplified. Uh, VJA, what is the warning that will come up? You? Well, when you click the link, you'll see the generic unsafe URL message. Not ideal, but it's the one thing that we have. And then Ian said, whatever we do in the coms, this will become a bias claim for Jack pre-hearing immediately. Let's make it clear we're proactively be cautiously interpret, interpreting this through the lens of our hacked materials policy, and allowing the link with the warning and significant reduction of spread. Uh, then this is where the really big question comes up and it comes from the VP of Global Comms and he says to Ian's point, can we truthfully claim that this is a part of the policy as a part of our approach to addressing potentially hacked materials? We are limiting visibility of related stories on Twitter while our investigation is ongoing. Can we actually do this? Like, are we gonna get, is this legal grounds that we don't wanna find ourselves in? Right. And it goes on to say to which former Deputy general counsel, Jim Bak, again, seems to advise staying the, uh, non course because caution is warranted. If fundamental problem with the tech community in content moderation. Many people in charge of speech know care little about speech and have been told, or have been, have to be told the basics by outsiders. And that was coming from Matt Tay. Uh, yeah. It goes on to talk about the Bill of Rights. Somebody calls out, um, that they were worried about, that kind tries to reroute the conversation to the First Amendment mentioned, which is generally hard to find in the files. Uh, and they were concerned about Section two 30, right? Section two 30 was the, um, legislation that was to be passed that would make the companies liable for news that they're spreading or not spreading. Uh, so that starts to frame the conversation a little bit more from their concern. They're not actually concerned with doing something wrong. They're concerned about it coming back on them politically. So within a day, the head of policy lowering Culbertson receives a gly letter from Carl sbo, which had already pulled 12 members of Congress, nine and three, nine Republicans, and three Democrats from the House of Judiciary Committees. And basically none of them were happy about the fact that they curtailed this story. Uh, not choice. Lets Twitter know a blood bath awaits an upcoming hill hearings. Em, uh, with members saying it's a tipping point, complaining tech has grown so big that they can't even regulate themselves. So government may need to intervene. Yeah. You think, uh, it says that when asked just how bad the situation is, one staffer said it's text access Hollywood moment and it has no Hillary to hide behind. Others. Were more blunt tech is screwed and rightfully so. Yeah. So it's like interesting to see that there was actually some conversations going on by employees saying that this isn't right. Right. Um, and then they even literally said that the First Amendment isn't absolutely like Yes. Yes it is. That's how the constitution works. Uh, and this is from SAS's letter containing chilling messages, relaying democratic lawmaker's attitudes. They want more moderation. And as for the Bill of Rights, it's not absolute with said, Uh, so there are multiple instances in the files of Dorsey intervening to question suspensions and other moderation act actions for accounts across the political spectrum. So some people have called this whole thing like, kind of like a nothing situation that it's not gonna have any big, huge public crowd cries. But I think this, if this does nothing but instill trust in Elon Musk's Twitter, that's a good thing, right? If, if he's willing to open up their books and, and open source all of the conversations that were be being had within this company, I think that's a positive thing for Twitter overall. I think that's a powerful thing for, you know, free speech overall. Um, I truly do believe that he did the right thing here and, and, and he didn't have to do this honestly. He, like was the one that called on this to happen. Um, Matt Taibi goes on to say it's been a whirlwind of a 96 hours for me too. There's so much more to come, including answers to questions about issues like shadow banning, boosting follower accounts, the fate of various individual accounts and more. These issues are not limited to the political right, and he says goodnight. Um, so there is a part two to this, which came up yesterday, and this is supplemental Twitter files. It says on Friday the first installment of Twitter files was published. Here we expect to publish more over the weekend. Many wondered why there was a delay. We can now tell you part of the reason why on Tuesday, Twitter, deputy General Counsel and former FBI General counsel, Jim Baker, was fired. Wow. Among the reasons, fighting the first batch of Twitter files without knowledge of new. The process for producing the Twitter files involve delivery to two journalists, Barry Weiss and me, via a lawyer close to new management. However, after the initial batch, things came, became complicated over the way. Over the weekend while we both dealt with obstacles to new searches, it was Barry Weiss who discovered that the person in charge of releasing the files was someone named Jim. When she called to ask Jim's last name, the answer came back. Jim Baker, my jaw. Hit the floor. It says Weiss. The first batch of files both, uh, both, both reporters received was Mark Spectra Baker emails. Uh, and then it goes on to say that, let's see if we can go back. Bakker is a controversial figure. He was spend something of a zeek of FBI controversies dating back to 2006 from the Steele dossier to the Alpha Server mess. He resigned in 2018 after an investigation into the. To the press the news that B was reviewing the Twitter files surprised everyone involved to say the least. New Twitter Chief Elon Musk acted quickly to exit Baker Tuesday. Reporters assumed searches through the Twitter files material. Oh, reporters resumed searches through the Twitter file materials. A lot of it today, the next installment will appear, uh uh, through Barry Weiss. Stay tuned. Now let's see if Barry Weiss has posted it, but it does not seem to be, so, yeah. All right. So yeah, and then that's the, that's the thing with this is like some people are like, oh, why are we still care? Like, right. The rights obsession with Hunter Biden was an article that I saw in Weis, right, is like the weird obsession with Hunter Biden. You know, the son of the current president of the United States who did shady business deals, peddling his father's influence to foreign countries and adversaries for profit. Along with what seemed to be sexual or exploitation of prostitutes, an ungodly amount of crack cocaine being consumed through a meth pipe. , uh, what else? Um, underage girls in, in foreign countries allegedly, uh, tear, terrible, disgusting pictures of him naked. Uh, all of these things, like why wouldn't people, the fact that people still aren't talking about that is more wild than the fact that people are, and the fact that it was like completely shut down, like they. Achieved what they wanted to. They, they, they exceeded all expectations on this by going ahead and making sure that nobody got to really see this. It didn't become a public conversation that changed much of anything. Everybody knows about this, but nobody's talking about it. I've done multiple, multiple deep dives into the Hunger Biden laptop. Uh, one episode specifically was a deep, deep dive into it. The emails, the pictures, the, uh, drugs, the prostitution, his dad, all of this stuff, even the Diary of Ashley, all of that stuff. I've done a whole podcast on it. So go back and listen to that. It's so wild. If you need to refresh your memory on how fucking crazy that whole thing was, go back and listen to that podcast because it, it is just mind boggling that this is not a more consistent conversation and that people aren't still freaking out about it. And I'm glad, again, I'm glad this is a consistent, now bringing this back up, but. It's still concerning, right? That it, that it has not changed anything. Hunter Biden's still out there walking. He, he hasn't been charged with, with Ping his father's influence Hunter. But Joe Biden's still the president of the United States, even though he was doing shady business deals with Ukrainian energy companies, two years before they were inverted by Russia. Shady business deals with China, right? You remember the China Joe, China Joe, like, I need to work on my Donald Trump. But, uh, but you remember all that, right? But if you don't, and if you need a refresher, go back and listen to that podcast, uh, because it is, it, it, it's truly should be a far bigger conversation than it actually has been. All right. Um, let's see if there's anything else that are here for us. Okay. Let's move on to. Um, and this is going to be the, that Elon Musk. Since this happened, since releasing these articles and releasing all of the communications through Twitter, Elon Musk says that he is at risk of being assassinated, assassinated as a result of everything that's been going on. So, Twitter CEO Elon Musk has declared his risk of assassination is quite significant in a ranging, uh, new chat. So let's see if we can maybe get some audio on this and give you guys a little bit of this, this story here. And here we come on. It's loading. Go. The risk of something bad happening to me of even literally being shot is quite, uh, sign. I'm definitely not gonna be, you know, doing any open air car parades, any open air car parades. What is he alluding there to? Hmm. Right. Maybe the, the, the JFK assassination. Right. Uh, wow, that's, that's a cool, a good little, uh, sub sub conversation subtweet, if I may, surrounding that , uh, Elon Musk has claimed that his risk of assassination is quite significant and the ranging, uh, two hour q and a audio chat on Twitter spaces, the social media platform CEO told listeners he definitely would not be doing any open air car parades. Let me put it that way. Frankly, the risk of something bad happen to me, or even leg or even literally being shot is quite significant. It's not that hard to kill somebody if you wanted to. So hopefully they don't. And fate smiles upon the situation with me, and it does not happen. There's definitely some risk there. The Tesla CEO in world's richest man, they self-proclaimed free speech, absolute added that at the end of the day, we just want to have a future where we're not oppressed. Yeah, that's a good future. Um, our speech is not suppressed, and we can say that what we want to say without fear of appraisal, he declared, as long as you're not really causing harm to somebody, Then you should be able to say what you want. This attitude has been clear since Must take over of Twitter last month. He has reinstated previously suspended accounts, including former President Donald Trump, and announced he would grant a general amnesty that everyone who has been booted off that had not been broken a law or engaged in spam must also ended Twitter's policy against Covid 19 misinformation and dismantled the company's trust and safety teams amid mass layoffs. Much of must conversation on Twitter spaces, which took place on Saturday night. Local time was devoted to the so-called Twitter files, a selection of internal documents released by journalist Matt Taibbi on Friday. Taibbi threat included files that showed Joe Biden's team instructing Twitter employees to remove specific Twitter political content in October, 2020, just weeks before he was elected president. Wow. Goes on to say that if Twitter was doing one team's bidding before an election, shutting down dissenting voices on a pivotal election, that is the definition of election interference. Musk, who has been highly critical of the platforms prior management, said, frankly, Twitter was acting like an arm of the Democratic National Committee. It was absurd. Musk had give, uh, said he had given Taibi as well as journalist Barry Weiss, unfettered access to old internal documents. Teasing more would be released and dubbing them the Twitter files, episode two. Wow. So that's interesting and that, that's something to be sad about, that like, there's always this talk about like assassination and in rightfully so, right, you have situations like, you know, the whole Epstein thing being an actual term used for the government wanting to, I don't know, kill you. Uh, And, and, you know, being in the space that I'm in, I've had some funny little messages before surrounding this type of thing for speaking about the things I speak about even. And I'm just a little guy here, not doing anything wrong, just giving my opinion on stuff, , but don't kill me. Um, but, uh, it is interesting and I like the way that he puts it, right? It, it is fairly easy to have somebody killed, he says. But I hope fate smiles upon me. . I love, I like that quote a lot. I almost should make a t-shirt out of that one. Uh, so the next part of the Elon Musk files is that after, uh, after this whole release of the Twitter files, Musk's neural link is under investigation. Over potential animal welfare violations, and this happened immediately after the Twitter files. Twitter files were released. Who would've thought the probe comes amid staff complaints about the company's animal testing being rushed. Elon Musk medical device company, Neurolink, is facing a federal probe in employee backlash and make claims of rushed animal testing causing needless suffering in deaths. Neurolink Corp is working on developing a brain implant. Hopes will curate range of neurological conditions including paralysis and Alzheimer's. According to the document seen by Reuters and interviews with staff, Neurolink employees have complained that pressure from CEO to speed up research has led to botch tests in unnecessary animal deaths. The recently launched federal investigation is focused on violations of the Animal Welfare Act, which governs how people or how animals are treated in research facilities. Now, what is the likelihood that two days after Elon Musk releases all of the files showing that Twitter was literally an extension of the Democratic National Party? To stifle dissenting voices. What are the odds that immediately following that Neurolink, all of the sudden has a federal probe into it? Right? And you even have the, uh, the White House Press Secretary calling, you know, people asking her if what their thoughts are on the Twitter, uh, gate Pro, uh, Twitter gate files and everything like that. And, uh, she kind of just stops the conversation. Doesn't say anything, circles back to it, right? As you would expect in the whole situation. So not much to be talked about there. And then Elon Musk also said that he personally wanted to punch Kanye West after the rapper posted a swastika on Twitter. I've already talked about that. I've already touched on it, so I'm not gonna do it much further. But yeah, maybe don't promote Nazis. That's not a good thing. Uh, and Kanye West got suspended again after doing all of that, right? After getting a good portion of society. Like there was a decent size rally cry around Kanye West, calling out the Jewish entertainment elites and the owners of multimedia companies in Disney and all of these, you know, large entertainment organizations and news media companies. There was a decent rally around it briefly until he went off the rails. Now, now again, I would like to go listen to the interview with Alex Jones. I will at some point and I'll update you guys on it cuz I want the context, right? Everything can be taken out of context. I really don't see how saying you love Hitler can be taken out of context. I, I, I don't exactly see how that one can be cured. Um, so again, off the Kanye train, not, uh, not something I support. So on that note, thank you guys for listening. I appreciate you so much. And. Head over to Red Hill revolution.co. Join the sub stack, uh, hit the subscribe button. Leave a five star view if you're still here with me now, you just gave me an hour of your time and I can't tell you how much that means to me. I love doing this for you guys. I appreciate all of the messages and um, everything in all the discussions surrounding this stuff. So, um, please reach out. Austin Red pill revolution.coo.com is for losers. Join the SubT stack and I will see you guys next time. Thank you so much.      

One of the most successful entrepreneurs in the music industry is, without question, Matt Pincus. He sold his independent music publishing company, SONGS, for $160 million five years ago. And now, the music holdings company he co-founded, MUSIC, just raised $200 million to invest in music and music-adjacent companies. Though, Matt doesn't see MUSIC as an investment fund, but rather a holding company. That's because he takes an operator-centric role in the companies he funds. And unlike the splashy catalog acquisitions that've dominated the space over the past few years, Matt is looking forward with his investments and targeting brand-new growth opportunities instead.In particular, Matt sees big opportunities in the technology sector, web3, and even record labels and publishing. At SONGS, Matt was able to spot and develop up-and-coming songwriters, inking early deals with the likes of Diplo, Lorde, and The Weeknd. He'll be tasked with finding similar success at MUSIC.  Matt and I dove deep into a wide-range of topics during our conversation. Here's a few highlights of what we covered:[2:58] Why Matt created MUSIC[8:07] MUSIC's investment thesis?[14:40] What Matt doesn't like about the music business [19:49] Recent inflow of capital into the music business[21:15] Two lanes to entering music business[25:15] Finding left-of-center opportunities among musical talent [27:30] The structural problem of the music business[31:35] Continuity was key to SONGS success[33:34] The Weeknd as a business blueprint for other artists[37:53] Sync business opportunities [44:55] Have streaming subscriptions peaked?[47:50] Tiktok brought back music frequency[51:40] Matt's five-year predictionsListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Matt Pincus, @mpinc  Sponsors: MoonPay is the leader in web3 infrastructure. They have partnered with Timbaland, Snoop Dogg, and many more. To learn more, visit moonpay.com/trapital Newsly is your all-in-one audio super app to hear the trending topics on the entire web. Download newsly.me for free and use the promo code ‘TRAP' to receive a 1-month free subscription. Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapital Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop's biggest players by reading Trapital's free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPTION[00:00:00] Matt Pincus: Defensibility in the music business is not a patent or a technology or some special recipe you have someplace. It's your understanding of music, the people that make it, and then your ability to develop relationships with people around the business and to keep your reputation such that people want to be with you. But the real key in, at least in the music technology side of it is you need to be able to spin the technology yourself and understand really how it works. [00:00:37] Dan Runcie: Hey, welcome to The Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip-hop culture to the next level. [00:00:56] Dan Runcie: Today's episode is with one of the most successful music entrepreneurs of the past few decades. His name is Matt Pincus and he is the founder and CEO of MUSIC, which is a holding company that invests in music tech and music-adjacent companies. MUSIC just launched a 200 million fund to invest in this space, so Matt and I talked all about it. He's looking for companies that still have a clear understanding for how music gets made and understand the art behind it. He's also looking for startups that have a true defensible moat that is something unique that they can do. And he's also looking for the companies that have a huge total addressable market that can clearly grow and expand as we're seeing things continue to grow in this space. Our conversation covered a bunch of topics in this space. We talked about sync and the impact of that. We also talked about how much further streaming can go. And we talked about a bunch of insightful music trends. Really fascinating conversation. I feel like every few months we have one of those conversations where people reach out to me and say, Hey, I took a bunch of notes in that conversation. Thank you for this. And I have a good feeling, I have a good feeling that this is going to be one of those conversations. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here's my chat with Matt Pincus. [00:02:16] Dan Runcie: All right. Today, we're joined by Matt Pincus, who is the founder of MUSIC, which is a holding company that invested music and music-adjacent companies. Matt, I'm really excited to have this conversation because you have had a very impressive career with what you did with Songs and everything that you had done in publishing specifically. And what always stuck out to me about you in this space is how you've identified opportunities where others didn't see them. So I know when I saw the announcement for MUSIC and the $200 million fund you launched, I said, okay, he's seeing something and he's seeing an opportunity to dive in. So what did you see? What made you want to get involved with this?[00:02:58] Matt Pincus: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm a big admirer of Trapital and your work in general. And I'm really happy to be with you here today. So, you know, I started music, it was sort of an organic process. I sold Songs after running it for about 13 years. And it was a fairly abrupt end. So we decided to sell the company and neither me nor my two partners really wanted to run it for somebody else. So we decided that once we sold it, it was time to step away and it was fairly quick. So, you know, I ran the company for 12-plus years. And then 90 days after the sale, I was out in the street, like, what am I going to do with my life? So it was a bit of an organic process. It started with meeting a lot of really interesting founders of music businesses and companies that were around the music business. It's obviously an interesting time in our business in a number of different ways. The streaming market has matured. There are a lot of music tech businesses with interesting founders cropping up over the past four or five years. The web three crypto business has, you know, started the early days of really coming online. And the way that labels, publishing companies, management companies reach audiences is really different than it was like, you know, six, seven years ago. So I met a lot of really interesting people. The first one was Steve Martocci, who was the founder of Splice. He and I hit it off particularly well. And I sort of said, listen, I've been, you know, doing talent deals with young people, you know, in the early twenties for the past 12 years, I think maybe the next chapter is working with founders of companies that are more like 10 years younger than me, as opposed to, you know, 20, early 20s. And taking the experience that I had in the last, like, four or five years of songs when we were trying to figure out how to really realize returns on the business and build on that to try to help people do the same thing. So I was out looking for, you know, are there interesting companies that I might be able to work with in some way or another? And the answer to that quickly became kind of yes, on the music tech side originally, in growth companies, when online music and music technology was shifting to a subscription-based backbone as opposed to a packet software business. And then also on the music side of it, you know, interesting independent labels, music companies operating in a different way. And so the first thing was, are there interesting companies out there? The second is, do they need capital and where would they get it from? And the third was, how am I going to get the money to invest in these businesses? So it was kind of a bit of a bootstrapping exercise where I would go find an opportunity to invest in a company, put some of my own money in LionTree, which sold songs for me and has been a partner and champion of mine since I sold the company, would invest some money too, and then we'd find some other people to round out the investment. We did that first with Splice, put about 20 million into the company over a period of time. We also did in the same way, made an investment in a company called HIFI, which is a FinTech platform benefiting artists in a bunch of different ways, and also with DICE, the ticketing business. And you know, they started, a couple of them did well and actually, they all did well. And so I decided that I wanted to raise some capital and have my own sort of, it's not really a fund. It's more of a holding company 'cause I'm less of an investor and more of an operator. And so the question became, how are we going to raise the money? Now Aryeh Bourkoff who runs LionTree is somewhat of a magic maker, and he took me on and introduced me to two families, the Schusterman Family and JS Capital, which is Jonathan Soros's capital vehicle. And they agreed to invest in a four-way partnership. So it's between me, LionTree, Schusterman Family, and JS Capital. And we formed MUSIC, which is a $200 million holding company. We do deals in a couple of different areas, music tech, which is sort of where I spent most of my time after Songs. We also invest in independent music companies like Songs. So labels publishing companies, management companies. Increasingly, a few of those functions are in one company, as opposed to when I was running Songs, it was like you were either a publisher or a label or a management company. And then we partner sometimes with a larger private equity firm if we are interested in acquiring something that's, you know, of a larger size. And so we're in the middle of one of those right now. And so we were able to find a bunch of interesting opportunity, a bunch of interesting ways, and it seems to me to be, you know, a really good time to be putting money to work in the music business. [00:07:32] Dan Runcie: Yeah. It's an exciting time to be investing in these companies and to be acquiring them too. And you mentioned something there about the types of companies you're looking at and whether they are modern music companies or whether they are doing something that's unique in the space. Can you talk a little bit more about your investment thesis and what you're looking for, and specifically, because, as you mentioned, you're not a fund, you're a holding company, so you're not necessarily just doing, you know, angel investments or early stage. You're trying to make investments for the long haul. So how does that shape your strategy?[00:08:07] Matt Pincus: Very good question. And I think the answer to that depends somewhat on the different areas of investment. So the first is in the technology side of the business, which is kind of where I started as an investor. So, you look for a couple of things there. So first of all, you need to invest in companies, not products. So some of the music startups can be sort of, it's an interesting widget, but can it be a scalable business? So you need to make sure that you have a couple of things in order to know that you're investing in a company that has the ability to grow. So the first thing is you need your own tech stack and it needs to be built to suit whatever market you want to be in. So for example, with Splice, one of the reasons, and there were several, but one of the reasons I invested in the company was because Steve had built this subscription stack from day one of the company. So it was a native SaaS company in a world where the rest of the market needed to move from the old way of doing business to the new way of doing business. Splice was always in the new way of doing business, so it was going to be ahead of the curve. And so you need to make sure that your technical capabilities and your technical assets are going to, you know, be where you want to go. The second is that you need to make sure you're in a part of the market that has a big enough user base to make a real company out of it. You know, it's great to make a widget that, you know, 1500 people love, love, love, but 1500 people is not a lot of people. So you need to make sure that the addressable market around the business has a lot of users. And again, in Splice's case, you know, they are the content business in music tech. So they can be used in an infinite amount of applications across the business, which gives them, you know, a really solid user base. And so, you know, that's kind of the second thing. And the third thing is that you need to kind of own where you live or have the ability to own where you live. So, you know, it's great if you get into a category in the technology side of the business, that, you know, breaks some ground and shows everybody what can be done. But if then, you know, Apple or Google just says, thank you very much and does it instead of you, it's not so great. So you need to have a defensible business that you can build and scale. And again, back to Splice, you know, they are the content leader and I'm a music publisher by trade, so content is the water supply in the music business. You know, in publishing, it's the song that starts the whole conversation. Splice owns music. And so no matter where the market is going to grow, no matter where it ends up going, they have the supply that feeds the music tech business. And so it's inherently defensible when it gets up to a certain level. You know, at this point they have 3 million works in their database. To catch up to them is, you know, difficult, if not impossible. And so you need to be defensible now on the music side of what I do, which is investing in music companies, there's a couple of things I look for. So first of all, I don't do catalog acquisitions. I invest in people. So the first thing is that you need to have really talented executives that understand music and know how to find repertoire and make it bigger. I tend to like businesses that give advances to artists. There's a certain way, like at Songs, we built a catalog over a long period of time, but we built it through signing young writers and giving them advances. So I call it a mattress out of sheets. If you do that one after another, over many, many years and you do it well, all of a sudden you wake up, you know, 7 to 10, 12 years later, and you're like, holy shit, it's a big catalog. And so I tend to like businesses that advance money to artists and build catalog that way or manage catalog that way. There's a certain magic to understanding how to compensate artists and doing it fairly. So I tend to look at that. You know, the music business has changed a lot. It used to be that if you wanted to be an independent, you needed to own your own vertical. And you know, at Songs, we had our global administration business that we owned and built. We had our own technology. So we were self-contained, standalone competitor. Now I think, you know, solutions have become available everywhere. There's a lot of good publishing administration, a lot of good record distribution solutions. There's a lot of off-the-shelf stuff you can get. It's really about music. It's really about understanding artists and the music that they make and connecting them with an audience. So I look for people who uniquely understand that. Now that can be, you know, somebody who has a geographical lock on a particular kind of music. It can be somebody that has a particularly unique understanding of how the studio works because I think if there's one big change in the music publishing business lately, it's that it's gone really back to the studio. And the interesting companies are actually making songs in real-time in a studio environment. So it can be that. It can be that you have another business that you do and music is associated with it. So why not, you know, get into the music business while you're doing whatever else you do, but you need to have some reason why you have access to a particular group of artists in a particular kind of repertoire, and you're helpful to that in some way or another. And so it's quite a different set of things that I look for on that side than on the technology side. [00:13:34] Dan Runcie: And with the way that your firm is structured, too, I see parallels with the types of companies you're looking at, right? You're not just focused on one particular type of investment area. You have the music tech companies that you're looking at. Splice is an example. You also have the companies that are working more directly in music itself, whether that is giving advances or companies that have a unique edge on who they're reaching. And I think that translates as well when you're talking about the types of companies you're looking at because a lot of times, especially 10, 15 years ago, as you mentioned, there were more silos and now you're starting to see companies have different types of roles that they do or different divisions to try to be this nebulous term that I've heard several times as broader entertainment company. And while I think that that's effective, I could also see how that could challenge some of the challenges of being able to have a business that is defensible or having a moat and the focus that comes with that. So how do you balance that and what are the things that you look for when evaluating companies that are both trying to do it all, but also are trying to have something that they can be defensible with? [00:14:40] Matt Pincus: Well, so on the music side of it, you know, it's about relationships. You know, the good companies, their equity is their relationships with different people around the business. And it's really a human-centric business. So, you know, defensibility often is correlated with reputation in the independent music business, at least. That was certainly true of Songs. One of the big success factors of the company and in fact, like, kind of our asset was that me and Ron and Carianne had really good relationships around the business that we built over many years, and that allowed us to punch above our weight class. You know, when we were a very small business, you know, we acted as a bigger business because we were able to get champions that helped us along the way, both in terms of the artists that were willing to sign with us, but also in terms of, you know, other people around the business that took us on and helped us out. Oddly enough defensibility in the music business is not a patent or a technology or some special recipe you have someplace. It's your understanding of music, the people that make it, and then your ability to develop relationships with people around the business and to keep your reputation such that people want to be with you. You know, on the tech side of it, it's a little bit different. You have to make sure that your innovation curve is constantly there. You have to make sure, like, I would not invest in a business that did not have a technical co-founder. You know, ideas are great. Everybody's got ideas. You know, there's an app for anything. But the real key in, at least in the music technology side of it is you need to be able to spin the technology yourself and understand really how it works, which when you get into the crypto side of it's really interesting 'cause a lot of people understand the implications of it, but they have no idea how the shit works. They don't actually use it. And they get kind of confused thinking that it's much more complicated than in fact it really is. Or, you know, they get so fascinated with the technology that they don't make a product that stands on its own bottom and has value to the end user. So it's a little bit different in the different areas of the market that you look at. And one of the reasons why I like the field that I play on and I feel very lucky to be able to do the different things that I can do with music is because some of it is about sort of analytical, scalable technology-oriented investments. And some of it is just about people in tunes. And so you're kind of mixing a lot of different things together. You know, the one thing that I don't like so much about the recent music business is somehow we all slipped into talking about music as assets and fractional finance and cash flows and securitization. And I'm like, listen, if I wanted to do all that shit, I do it not here. You know, the music business is not assets and finance and cash flows and, you know, securitization. The music business is moving people, motivating people, creating an audience, assembling humans to want what you make, and distributing that and delivering it and all the rest of that stuff. You know, the fact like, listen, what I'm doing is either really smart or really dumb because either you can make a real investment business just out of the music business. And I think you can because there's lots of different types of investments in music and there's lots of growth and lots of possibility. But also, you know, it's a pretty small business. And I live in, play, you know, a neighborhood, the size of a postage stamp. We'll see if they can be done, but I think originally, you know, it starts with the creative and it starts with the means of delivering the creative to the people that want it. And then all of the rest of this stuff, you know, yield, debt payments, multiples on equity, bonds, all the rest of this stuff just is a happy accident that comes from doing your job well.[00:18:35] Dan Runcie: I'm glad you mentioned this because there's a version of what you do that could easily look more like a traditional private equity firm, where they are just going in and doing all of the things that you just mentioned and they're coming more from that perspective, but in many ways, your defense is having this laser focus on music, but you're going deep within all of the areas that it encompasses. And with that, I have to assume that this also maybe has a bit of a flavor on what your take is about the money that has come into the music industry and some of those other non-music companies or those that are purely looking at it for the financial opportunity or for the noncorrelated opportunities and how that in a lot of ways, even though on paper, someone that's fundraising may see the money they can get from you versus the money they get from others. But I'm hearing it from the record labels. And especially the independent ones they're getting reached out to all the time now about acquisitions. And a lot of those calls are coming from non-music related companies that are trying to make those moves. So it's been fascinating to see how that shapes, but I do feel like you are going about this in a much more unique way than a lot of them are.[00:19:49] Matt Pincus: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. I will say that the recent, like, huge inflow of capital into the music business has one very good byproduct, which is it's giving a lot of money to songwriters and artists. Some of these catalogs getting valued at 20 times, 30 times, you know, NPS where they would've been valued at 10, you know, four or five years ago, maybe 10 years ago. It just results in people that make great music, making a bunch of bucks. And there's nothing at all wrong with that. On the catalog side of it, it makes a little bit more sense that some of these like larger capital vehicles are coming into the market and, you know, bidding things up and structuring the leverage in a certain way that makes sense. There's a big difference between what's going on now and what was going on when this first happened, like in 2006, 2007 timeframe because the people that are doing it now can afford it. They've got lots and lots of money. They don't need big returns on that money. They have the ability to structure this stuff financially in ways that don't make no sense. And so it makes, you know, more sense that people are doing that with the IP catalog acquisition business. When it gets to new music, you know, I think it's still a human business. I think you got to know the people, you know, and you have to understand how it's really about managing what I refer to as the working capital of the business. So, you know, you need to advance money, you need to collect that money, you need to reinvest the money. And so a lot of that, you know, it's not a big enough business that you can structure it like a bunch of bonds. You need to kind of understand the market that you're in, how many deals you could possibly get, and what about you ought to pay for them, and what kind of infrastructure you need to address all of that to do a good job. And that's hard to know from outside of the business. It's even hard to know, like there's sort of two lanes in the music business. There's people who came up through the building where they started at majors and they kind of built their career, you know, up from coordinator to director to senior director to VPs, SVP, EVP. And then they end up running the company, a lot of great people who came up that way. And then there's people who kind of feed in the wild. Like, come outside of the building and need to figure out, like, what's available. And there's some real differences, you know. Sometimes they cross over like Ron Perry who was an instrumental person at Songs from, you know, the very beginning to through time we sold and now runs Columbia. So sometimes that happens. Or Carianne who, you know, also was my partner at Songs who now runs Warner Chappell with Guy Moot. It's like there, you know, it happens, but there are really two lanes. And I think in the independent side, it's a lot about systematic A&R so about looking at, listen, none of us are overfunded with tons of money. So, you know, everybody's stretching the dough. And it becomes about how can I build this system in the world that I live that can do deals inexpensively, and then find the ones that are working and invest and push them forward. And all the great independent music companies, you know, Chrysalis, Jive Zomba, A&M Rondor, all the great ones throughout history sort of did that really effectively or were usually like the other ones. So everybody goes to the majors to get their offer. And then there's these other cooler guys that are there, like, you know, kind of fucking with the majors by picking off all the left to center stuff that was us at Songs. You know, and all those other companies I just mentioned were kind of some version of that. But there's kind of, all of these mechanics that come both from history, so understanding the history of the business, but also understanding the people and how they sort of work 'cause as much as the world is changing and it's changing a lot, it's still kind of about A&R. It's still about creative in some way or another. I mean, Carianne's superpower, which she's got many, but the original superpower was understanding not only what works well to picture, but the people that choose music in film and television, advertisements, video games, she's particularly uniquely talented at that. And that's still a core skill that people need to understand. So, you know, I'm the guy that kind of pulls the pieces together. I don't do any of those things. I, you know, originally hired some great people and now I try to invest in great people that do all that stuff, but it's still about understanding it and if you're coming purely from the outside, I think it's challenging.[00:24:22] Dan Runcie: Yeah. And I think your career experience speaks a lot to this, right? You mentioned being able to find the left-of-center opportunities when you're at Songs, whether it was Lorde or The Weeknd. And you saw how those turned out. It worked out brilliantly. I'm curious to hear what you think about the way things are right now because, especially with the way that TikTok is and so many of the companies, whether it's the major labels or the independents, they all have access to the same information. So the cost of acquiring and being able to find and develop those same artists is much more expensive. So what do you think those left-of-center opportunities look like today in the current environment where it feels as if there are more and more outlets to find different types of people, but the way that people are going about it, it does seem like a lot of people are now playing a pretty similar game.[00:25:13] Matt Pincus: You mean like a moneyball...[00:25:15] Dan Runcie: Yeah. [00:25:15] Matt Pincus: ...type of, yeah. So, you know, again, I go back to like, there's sort of in the building and there's outside of the building way of thinking. So in the major system, it makes logical sense that they want to sort of hang back, see what reacts, and go and get it when it reacts, the more predictable something is the more you're willing to pay for it. That makes logical sense. There's nothing wrong with it. They're not idiots for doing that. It's just the way that they traditionally operate. And now it's about, like, seeing the shiny pennies and then grabbing them right away, whatever the cost, because music is much more efficient than it used to be. It used to be that you'd have to, like, release a whole album and sink a bunch of capital into seeing if something works. Now you can kind of tell pretty quickly if something's going to work. So it makes sense to pay a lot for something predictable, as opposed to, you know, paying a little bit for stuff that is wildly uncertain. So, you know, that makes total sense. I think on the independent side, and I really count in that like A&R mentality, like people who are finding artists and developing artists. So it's not just like, you know, independent labels, but it's also like, you know, Electric Feel is a really interesting company that does this, Hallwood. You know, APG is obviously the really great example of this, of finding artists really early and developing them into something or representing people who do that. A lot of, you know, that is about iteration and about understanding, you know, what makes a good story in a particular market. Now, part of that is the music itself. Part of that, most of it is the music itself, but part of that is also all the other stuff around it. You know, how you unfold the narrative, how you stage market entry for an artist. You know, all of those things, again, I come back to the stick to your knitting thing where it's like, as much as the world changes, it kind of remains the same to some degree. So, you know, the interesting and frustrating thing about the music business for people that run companies like I did at Songs is that there's just not that many good, really good, talented people, you know. If there's one structural problem in the music business is there's not enough, really good A&R people, promotion people, you know, creative people. [00:27:29] Dan Runcie: And why do you think that is?[00:27:30] Matt Pincus: I think it's hard, for one, I think it's hard. And as much as people try to play moneyball, now I'm a big believer in systematic A&R, which some people would consider, you know, moneyball. So in other words, like having a funnel that gives you a group of things that might work, that I'm a big believer in that as a starting point, but that only gets you like 51% confidence. That's not much more than a coin toss. The rest of it is really doing the work of developing the product itself, the music itself, and then the story around it. And it's just a hard business, plus you got to know everybody, you know. So it takes a while to develop those relationships and those skills. One of the things that's interesting when I look on the music tech side of it that I think is one of the great things is that the technological development in music production is allowing people to learn how to use the gear quicker. So you're going to have hit singles coming from 13-year-olds within no time at all. And that used to not be possible because it would take you four or five, six years just to learn how to twist the knobs on a board. Like, it was hard. Now with like, you know, presets, with things like Splice, with AI-assisted creation, you know, anything that makes it easier for an artist to get what's inside of them out, the learning curve is becoming less steep. And that's a good thing because talent shines in that environment. You know, it's one thing to be able to, you know, have a knowledge-base to tweak things. It's another thing to just be a talented and expressive artist with urgency. And so maybe some of that will happen. And on the executive side, like on the A&R side, as things like radio, you know, radio's been so monolithic and so hard to penetrate. And now maybe it's loosening up a little bit, but it still takes a while to figure out what's going to work. It's very hard. And it is one thing to be a fan and be like, this is good, this is not good. It's another thing to take a look at something that doesn't yet exist and be like, this is what it will look like if we can pull it off. I don't have that talent, you know. I'm not an A&R person, but I watch people do it and it's pretty miraculous. And it's not just A&R, it's also promotion, which is an undervalued piece of the equation and increasingly, marketing, digital marketing, like the first cut of it was just, you know, sort of advertising on Facebook. Now it's much more sophisticated than that. And so I feel like it's just hard and I wish there were, you know, there's also the part of the problem in the music business is nobody trains anybody. There's no HR infrastructure. You know, I went to Columbia Business School and I had been in the music business. I didn't have one single meeting about a job that came through the school. [00:30:14] Dan Runcie: I'm not surprised. That wasn't the case for me either. [00:30:17] Matt Pincus: That's what I'm saying like, nobody trained you. I mean, I remember going on a job interview when I was like 21 coming right out of college or 23 coming right out of college with a guy at ICM. And he said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to be an A&R .He said, great, find a band. That was it. That was the interview. And so it's like, it's that kind of business, which is kind of wonderful in its own way, but it doesn't train people really. And so that's also part of the reason. We don't develop our talent, executive talent pipeline in a really great way. And that's why people like, you know, Mike Caren at APG is so special. You know, the LVRN guys are so special because they bring along executives in a really concerted kind of way. And I wish there was more of that in the business in general. [00:30:58] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think that's a huge opportunity for it. And I think you see a lot of it play out when there are executive shake ups and who gets picked for certain things and why people get picked for certain things. And to some extent, you see this in other places too, whether there's a mix of internal hires versus external. But one thing that I have noticed is the units that do tend to stick together, or there is some continuity there. You do see a lot of success happen if they understand what works, everyone's into it. And I think some of these other places where it could be a bit of revolving doors with who's in leadership, who's trying to get where it's very tough to have that infrastructure. [00:31:35] Matt Pincus: And that was one of the great blessings for me at Songs, which is not, doesn't speak well for the industry, particularly, but, you know, Ron and Carianne were two of the most talented people of their generation for sure. And the business didn't know what to do with them. The fact that I could get the two of them and we could all stay together for 12 years and build a company is like a miracle. And that was a big part of the reason why it all worked is because we knew each other really well and people knew us as a unit. We had different things we did. It's a little bit like, you know, kind of what's going on with the professional sports a little bit too, is, you know, it's great that all these individual players are celebrities. And again, great that athletes are making more money, but great teams don't stay together in the same way that they did before. And I think that's changing a little bit now because you don't have to do a deal with a major and get your money the traditional way in order to build a company. And that's one of the reasons I exist as MUSIC, is because there's opportunities to bring outside capital into the business under terms that look a little bit more like sort of venture capital or private equity, which is in a way more fair than the traditional music business has been on a per transaction basis. There's natural reasons why the major music companies finance the music business for as many decades as they did, and it's not to rip people off, it's because nobody else would do it. But now it's a different world and so hopefully some of these things will change. You know, when you have really great entrepreneurs that own their own business, as opposed to, you know, in some JV with a major that's really a compensation agreement, then it's in their interest, like it was in mine when I was running Songs, to bring along really talented people and find new ones. And so that's one of the things that I've sort of hoped for in some way. [00:33:24] Dan Runcie: Are there any artists that stick out to you as examples of yes, they're building their business and they're doing this the way that could be a blueprint for what we'll see more frequently moving forward?[00:33:34] Matt Pincus: Ones that I talk about all the time is The Weeknd, which we were involved with, you know, from fairly early on. And Sal who's, you know, has been his manager for a very long time, and Cash. You know, I think you're going to see what they did with XO happening in a lot of different ways going forward, where you get a group of people that form a partner and distribute responsibilities between artist, manager. You know, there's people like La Mar Taylor involved with those guys that does all the visual. There's a lot of cooks that need to be in the kitchen to make something really successfully work. The label model of sign to a label, they'll do everything that existed in, like, the nineties is way long gone. Even management where you sort of have somebody who's a commission person that's just doing the business of an artist, that's not true of the good ones anymore. The good ones get in it with the artist and really help them build an entrepreneurial life. I mean, to be an artist now, you need to, like, be like a 140-character joke writer. You need to be an accountant. You need to have a corporate entity. You need to deal with all these different vendors. And you need to be like, you know, P. T. Barnum, like, step right up, step right up, check this out, you're going to love it. It's a complex skill set. And so I think one of the things that you're going to see in the talent representation business, like the management business is I think you're going to see more entity partnership formation, where people are going to go into partnership together. Managers and artists will be like Sal, Sal and Abel have been together for, how long now? Like, I mean...[00:35:08] Dan Runcie: It's at least a decade, right?[00:35:09] Matt Pincus: Yeah. And they've been able to scale and grow and make a lot of money and still be together. And that's because everyone provides value. I'm sure they adjust their relationship, however, over time, I don't know. But I think you're going to see that approach because it takes a village in a way to make really durable stuff. I mean, if you're talking about a viral hit that's here today, gone today. That's one thing. But if you're talking about really building a franchise over a period of time, it requires a lot of work from a lot of people. So I think you'll see sort of, you know, entity formation with partners that include business people and artists in with interest aligned. You know, Diplo's another one. I mean, you know, TMWRK and Diplo have been together for again, going back to since I started working with them. So that was 2011, you know? You look at firms like CRUSH, Jonathan, Daniel has built franchise after franchise of artists that stay with him forever. And he works with him as a partner and that's why it works. So I think you're going to see more of that going forward and and I think that's a good thing.[00:36:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah, definitely. The Weeknd's a very good example because even from the origins of his career, you could see the mentality of where he saw things. Drake famously offered him the opportunity to come on OVO Sound. They had the whole Toronto connection, Drake put him onto that blog post and everything, but then he was like, no, I don't want to be under another artist when I think I can be just as big as that artist, even bigger and do my own thing and look what he's been able to do now. So I think a lot of it...[00:36:41] Matt Pincus: And by the way, the record deal is a distribution deal. [00:36:43] Dan Runcie: Right. [00:36:44] Matt Pincus: You know, I mean, there you go. And so in terms of distribution of value, you know, if you can do it, if you're smart enough to have a cool head and plan like those guys did, you know, you can have a much larger enterprise than you normally would. So I hold them up as an example of, you know, what I think is going to happen and is happening really in lots of different areas of the business now.[00:37:07] Dan Runcie: One of the other areas that has gotten a bunch of attention right now has been syncs, and this has been growing, I think, especially given what we've seen with people, especially from outside the music industry, trying to get more involved, but especially this past summer with Kate Bush being featured in Stranger Things. This conversation has been happening more and more. This is another example where it's a mix of that art and science of what does finding a good sync looks like and what happens with it. And I think so much of it, there's maybe a little bit of luck with just how the internet works and how things take off, but there's also a good amount of work that's put into finding the right type of placement for the right type of artists that could make all those things work to make it happen. So how do you view the opportunities for sync right now? [00:37:53] Matt Pincus: You know, it's interesting. I was sort of a student of Carianne. She taught me the sync business. I literally remember she had a binder where she kept every single interaction she ever had around a song and a placement. And she not only showed me how it all worked, but then we made a software platform out of her own process of how she did it. So I was trained by the best. One of the interesting things about sync is how it always comes back in cycles. You know, when we started Songs, it was like 2004, sync was the whole game. Like, between 2006 and sort of 2009 timeframe, it was the most important thing in a pitch. You know, it was responsible for a lot of our really early successes. And then when it became a largely pop business there in the early days of streaming, it was like sort of radio and super reactive and viral repertoire. It sort of stepped to the background for a minute. And now with the way that kids are bouncing around on a playlist from like, you know, Taylor to like a hip-hop track to, you know, Kate Bush back to Metallica and they don't care. It's become all of a sudden, perhaps one of the top, most important ways repertoire gets discovered now. It's amazing the enduring power of synchronization over time. The thing about sync that I think is interesting is part of it is selection. Like, is this song going to work to picture? But there's a lot that goes into making the deal happen. I mean, that Kate Bush deal as my understanding, I was not involved, but my understanding from, like, just hearing about it was that it took 'em forever to get the clearance done. So a lot of it is not only just is this going to work the picture? Is it the right BPM, the right mood, you know, the right tonality, the right cultural notes, which is a very special thing that music supervisors are particularly good at, but it's also the real politic of like getting the fucking thing cleared. And one of the things that I look at, I tend to have thesis sort of areas when I look at investing in the music business, and one of them is just how fuck the sync business is. That, you know, there should be a buy it now button in the music business if you want to use something for your film, buy it now. And if it was easy, people would pay more. But the problem is they have to roll around a glass to clear a copyright, getting the same deal with 13 songwriters and the master side and it's horribly inefficient. So I think part of the interesting thing with sync in the next generation is how do we do right by the music by making it more usable. Because there's also a couple of different ways this sync business cuts. So, you know, you have stuff that's used in a more traditional sense, and that has a real, like the standard pairing of like, it matter, it makes a huge creative difference and it's very hand selected. Front title and title, you know, big placement in a film television advertisement, but then you have this huge blanket sync business where a lot of the new promotion platform are AV platforms. It's technically synchronization, TikTok, YouTube, you know, Instagram it's technically sync. And I would argue that if there's one element of the business that gives radio a run for its money, it's AV platforms because what happens is people use it in so many videos that you end up hearing the song a thousand times, however many times it takes for you to be like, oh, my God, I have to hear it again. That's really the only place it happens and that's sync. There's a couple of different ways it cuts. You know, the great, like, placements of all time, and we had quite a few of them at Songs that sort of are like, you know, really make a song and make a film. Those are works of art. But also a lot of handling everything else is like maybe 50, 50 at best creative to handling. And so a lot of it is understanding, having those relationships, understanding how to price things, understanding how to clear repertoire, getting permission from the artist to do it. There's a lot of process that goes into it.[00:41:49] Dan Runcie: Is there a sync from your days that song that you look back on that you were like, yeah, that's the one. It took some work, but looking back that's the one. [00:41:56] Matt Pincus: Wow. That's really, that be would a really better question for Carianne than for me. In terms of like the stuff that really made a difference to us as a business, one of the things that I think was meaningful was when Lorde did the Hunger Games soundtrack in the follow-up movie. That gave us a really good look at how music can be a content element in overall entertainment. The Weeknd did a similar thing with Black Panther where, so it was those sort of tie-in, you know, big-ticket where our music was woven into the substance of the film or the ad in some cases. That I think are really the special moments. Those are two that pop out. There's always like the random one where you have a relatively smaller artist and you get them a sync and, you know, it changes their life. It gives 'em more money than they ever thought was possible. There's also the ones, we had an artist who had a very high level of ethic and I won't name the artist, but independent artist, good earnings, but not a pop artist. And we got a $90,000 ad and for very good ethical reasons, he said, fuck, no, it's not going to happen, not going to approve it. And as much as I was like, it was to do early days of the company, it would've made a huge difference to write 90 grand into my books in a quarter. There's some beauty in the level of control that artists have over their own work in the music business that they don't in a lot of other media that I was like, you know what good for him, I guess we're saying no. There's this artisanal component to it that's really special.[00:43:32] Dan Runcie: Yeah. Being able to have that power and knowing when it isn't right. I've heard similar things as well from other podcasters I'll talk to when they get pitched with certain deals and stuff, and they'll be like, you know what, that's just not a product I'm willing to do, or that's just not an endorsement I'm willing to have. And it could have been a game changer for them and their business and everything. But I think we're going to see more of this with creators as they just are leveraging their own independence and being able to make their own decisions. [00:43:59] Matt Pincus: Yeah, exactly. [00:44:00] Dan Runcie: Yeah.[00:44:00] Matt Pincus: Exactly. [00:44:01] Dan Runcie: I want to close this conversation out talking about streaming 'cause I know this is a topic that you've shared a number of insights on over the years. And one of the things that you've said before that has always stuck out to me and resonated is this path that streaming has been on where it has been growing year over year, but a lot of people, especially in recent months, have started to question how many more subscribers out there are willing to pay the full price for streaming services and even if there is growth in some of these other regions where the revenue coming in is only a fraction of what it currently is now, what does that growth necessarily look like? So I hear that there's two camps there. Some people are skeptical about the future, but others are looking at smartphone adoption and just the way that things are trending as an indicator of where things are going. But how do you view the opportunity and especially streaming's growth from here on out. [00:44:55] Matt Pincus: Okay. So I think there's a couple of different things there. You know, one is just on-demand streaming and what the growth curve looks like for on-demand stream. I think the broader question is what does overall growth look like for music consumption going forward? And I'm not sure those are totally the same thing. So, you know, listen, Spotify's done an epic job growing that business. It's a difficult business from just the word go, you know, you're relying on content licenses, you're inherently undifferentiated. Like on paper, it looks like this is impossible. And yet they build an unbelievable business out of it. And I really, you know, sort of think it's worth, you know, whatever opinions people have about streaming, to take a step back and realize that the people who did this originally, you know, Larry Jackson and Apple Music, the people who did it originally did a really fucking tremendous job of making it work. It will mature. There's some debate over whether it may have already started to mature in some distinct ways in Western, you know, sort of developed economies and even maybe in some of the larger sort of secondary territories. The really interesting places that we used to see at Songs in our own data are high population, low discretionary income countries, Indonesia, Philippines, a lot of the African continent. I'm not sure it's necessarily in all of those places going to be an on-demand streaming function that, you know, ultimately wins the day. There are people fucking with a model in a bunch of different ways over mobile. Boomplay in Africa is doing a buyout model. You know, it can be woven with other kinds of entertainment in a bundle in a bunch of different ways. So the question of where on-demand streaming goes, it is a little bit like anyone's guess, but there are different opinions between reasonable people about how the growth curve looks. You know, one of the things that I really love about the web three thing, and I think it's in the early days of really grinding the gears to figure out what actually works, 'cause like this sort of, you know, sucking on the laughing gas tank and you know, watching your crypto go up or over now. So it's entering into like a moment where people actually like have to figure out how it works. But the thing that I think is true is that it's unlocked a premium, that people are willing to pay over the cost of consuming music permanently. How big that premium is, we'll see. I think it was overinflated and inorganic in some of the early times of crypto, not a lot, humans are doing it and they're doing it for high ticket prices, you know, but if you look at some of the stuff, for example, that's going on in Asia, where people are throwing money at artists they like just because they want to you know, people paying sort of eye of the beholder price to be associated with an artist that they feel strongly about, that they love early in their career. Like, that's not going away. So whether, you know, the subscription fatigue is a reality, whether effective penny rates, times units of consumption are going up, flattening, going down. You know, we'll see. I mean, the Goldman Sachs people think they're going to go up forever. I'm not sure I totally agree with that. But what is true is that the willingness of people to invest in artists they love is increasing. And I don't think that's going back to zero, so it may not be, you know, that subgrowth continues on forever and on-demand streaming, but it may be that there are other ways that people can figure out how to engage with artists that keep the value, you know, exchange going up. Now, the one thing about streaming that's interesting is that, you know, the TikTok thing, in ways that people, like, talk shit about it all the time, whatever, but the thing that's interesting is that it did introduce frequency back into the equation. And one of the things about music that's unique is that you need to hear a song a number of times before you like it. Like at first you're like, I hate that. And then you hear it like five times and you're like, maybe I want to hear it again. And then by like, whatever end time you hear it, you're like, I can't get it out of my head. I got to hear it. It's like, Barry Weiss used to call it a record finding its bottom, where it would kind of come out and people would spin it, and then it would drop and then at some level would start to rise again. That's a function of promotion. That's a function of frequency. And in the early YouTube time and on-demand streaming time, you didn't really have that. Like, the people couldn't make something frequently play. And the AV platforms, not only TikTok, but also Snap and Instagram changed that equation and that music needs that. The thing that I'm wondering where it will happen, where it will come back into the equation though, is the music press, which has largely disappeared. And so I'm looking for who, on a consumer level there, people like yourself covering the business, part of it, that are doing an extraordinary job, but who sort of tells people what's good, gets it in front of them, filters it and what does that look like? It's probably not printed on a page. It's probably, it's sort of associated, I think in some way with what's going on with the NFT world, you know, with getting people to buy in, getting a community of people bought to projects, but it's still that same mechanism of filtering. And so I'm wondering where that's one of my thesis areas that I have my on. Where's the next one of those? [00:50:08] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think this is a role that, of course, MTV and so many other places own and were able to do so well decades ago. And now the commonality I've always referred back to is that TikTok in many ways is the new MTV, but it's more so in the broader sense of just the cultural appeal, but not in that solo aspect of yes, if you want to know what this group of people are pushing, or what is the thing that's in, this is the place to go to find that. And I think it's very tough, the way that things are right now, just with how fragmented things are. But people are always going to want to feel like they're part of what's in or feel like they know what's in that desire also isn't going away. So I think there were always be a space for this, no matter how fragmented.[00:50:53] Matt Pincus: And people don't always know what they like. I mean, who knew that all these people love Kate Bush? [00:50:58] Dan Runcie: Right. [00:50:58] Matt Pincus: We all understand why. She's amazing. Song's amazing, but people don't always know what they like until somebody shows it to them and repeats it. And then all of a sudden they can't get it out of their head. And that's the magic of music. So how that happens, you know, the cool kids like it up from the bottom, you know, like to be selective, know about the stuff first. The general audience likes to hear things multiple times and then, you know, be addicted to it. And I think that those things will reinvent themselves in a bunch of different ways going forward. [00:51:27] Dan Runcie: For sure, Matt, before we let you go, do you have one big prediction for us on where you may see things in the next five years or one thing that you think will change from where music is right now to where things will be come 2027?[00:51:40] Matt Pincus: Well, I think as I touched on before, I think younger and younger people are going to be making music that the world reacts. And that is going to be miraculous when it happens. And not necessarily in like a sort of criss-cross Whip / Nae Nae type of way, but in a real, like expressing the core thoughts and feelings they have and getting them out there in a way that sounds good to the world. I think that's going to happen in a bunch of different ways. I think the way that repertoire moves across the planet is going to be revolutionary in the next five years. If there's one thing that's really going to change, you know, it used to be that sort of music went west to east and technology went east to west. Now, I think that's all scrambled eggs right now. If you look at stuff, like, you know, some of the music that's coming out of West Africa right now and how it gets into the global culture. It's not like in a, you know, used to be like you had like a world music business. Like, that's ripped up and thrown away. And so I think, you know, the way that the in-country community relates to the diaspora community in around the globe is going to be really different. You know, I think if there's one thing I have my eye on, it's sort of how all that stuff travels. And obviously, there's some obvious examples like BTS. But I think this is going to happen anywhere and everywhere. And one of the things that I heard somebody say the other day that I felt was really interesting is that the music business thinks about countries in its marketing. You know, they've Europe and Asia and Australia, Canada, US. It should be cities because music is about scenes and it's going to travel that way. And so your Amsterdam strategy is going to be different from your Seoul strategy is going to be different from your São Paulo strategy. And so if there's one like broad thing, I think we're going to look at the way that music travels around the planet in a completely different way. [00:53:37] Dan Runcie: That's spot on. Look at the way we think about music here in the US. That should be an indication of how it should be looked at elsewhere, right? We know what Atlanta hip-hop sounds like compared to what you may hear in LA or even the New Orleans bounce sound. Like, it's so different place to place. So you look at a country like Nigeria, which is soon going to eclipse the US in population. What you may hear in Lagos would be completely different from other parts of the country. So that's a really great point. [00:54:05] Matt Pincus: Yeah. So that would be like, if I, you know, sort of, if I had to obsess about something, it would be that. [00:54:10] Dan Runcie: And I think a lot of people listening probably will too. This is a good one. I think that you got a bunch of notes for people to jot down. So Matt, thank you for making the time for this. This is fun. Thanks for coming on. [00:54:21] Matt Pincus: Thank you so much. I just really appreciate your thinking to me. And it's a pleasure to talk to you about all this stuff.[00:54:27] Dan Runcie: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat, post it in your Slack groups, wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how Trapital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple podcast, go ahead, rate the podcast. Give it a high rating and leave a review. Tell people why you liked the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is Play It Forward. Real people. Real stories. The struggle to Play It Forward. Episode 349 with Dan and Laura Dotson from Storage Wars. "Storage Wars" bidding, buying and selling for an all new season of wild auction battles in California. Fan-favorite auctioneers and buyers including Dan and Laura Dotson, Brandi Passante, Jarrod Schultz, Darrell Sheets, Kenny Crossley, Rene Nezhoda and Casey Nezhoda, as well as Ivy Calvin and his sons return to the lockers in search of the next big find. Viewers will join the thrill of the hunt at the fast-paced auctions for a look into the exhilarating, high-stakes world of storage auctions. Buyers go to the storage facilities, willing to risk it all, to bid on the contents of lockers and if they're lucky, find treasure not just trash! Iconic auctioneers Dan and Laura Dotson once again lead our buyers through unit after unit filled with all kinds of surprises. As for the buyers, Brandi Passante has focused her attention on home staging and storage lockers have a way of offering her all kinds of furniture and knick-knacks. Darrell Sheets is lured out of a cozy retirement, being simply unable to resist the pull of auctions. Ivy Calvin has added his son to the family business, bringing along Ivy Jr with him to increase his chances of success. Rene Nezhoda finds himself re-arranging his business, potentially moving his storefront to a location closer to the other buyers. And let's not forget Kenny Crossley, who's still trying to get the hang of buying treasure-filled units (without having to spend a fortune), all while keeping everyone in stitches. But perhaps the biggest development this season is the long-anticipated return of Barry Weiss. Adopting a strict new buying regimen and working with an internationally-recognized bidding coach, Barry is intent on getting back in the game and playing for keeps this time.

This is Play It Forward. Real people. Real stories. The struggle to Play It Forward. Episode 349 with Dan and Laura Dotson from Storage Wars. "Storage Wars" bidding, buying and selling for an all new season of wild auction battles in California. Fan-favorite auctioneers and buyers including Dan and Laura Dotson, Brandi Passante, Jarrod Schultz, Darrell Sheets, Kenny Crossley, Rene Nezhoda and Casey Nezhoda, as well as Ivy Calvin and his sons return to the lockers in search of the next big find. Viewers will join the thrill of the hunt at the fast-paced auctions for a look into the exhilarating, high-stakes world of storage auctions. Buyers go to the storage facilities, willing to risk it all, to bid on the contents of lockers and if they're lucky, find treasure not just trash! Iconic auctioneers Dan and Laura Dotson once again lead our buyers through unit after unit filled with all kinds of surprises. As for the buyers, Brandi Passante has focused her attention on home staging and storage lockers have a way of offering her all kinds of furniture and knick-knacks. Darrell Sheets is lured out of a cozy retirement, being simply unable to resist the pull of auctions. Ivy Calvin has added his son to the family business, bringing along Ivy Jr with him to increase his chances of success. Rene Nezhoda finds himself re-arranging his business, potentially moving his storefront to a location closer to the other buyers. And let's not forget Kenny Crossley, who's still trying to get the hang of buying treasure-filled units (without having to spend a fortune), all while keeping everyone in stitches. But perhaps the biggest development this season is the long-anticipated return of Barry Weiss. Adopting a strict new buying regimen and working with an internationally-recognized bidding coach, Barry is intent on getting back in the game and playing for keeps this time.

This is Play It Forward. Real people. Real stories. The struggle to Play It Forward. Episode 349 with Dan and Laura Dotson from Storage Wars. "Storage Wars" bidding, buying and selling for an all new season of wild auction battles in California. Fan-favorite auctioneers and buyers including Dan and Laura Dotson, Brandi Passante, Jarrod Schultz, Darrell Sheets, Kenny Crossley, Rene Nezhoda and Casey Nezhoda, as well as Ivy Calvin and his sons return to the lockers in search of the next big find. Viewers will join the thrill of the hunt at the fast-paced auctions for a look into the exhilarating, high-stakes world of storage auctions. Buyers go to the storage facilities, willing to risk it all, to bid on the contents of lockers and if they're lucky, find treasure not just trash! Iconic auctioneers Dan and Laura Dotson once again lead our buyers through unit after unit filled with all kinds of surprises. As for the buyers, Brandi Passante has focused her attention on home staging and storage lockers have a way of offering her all kinds of furniture and knick-knacks. Darrell Sheets is lured out of a cozy retirement, being simply unable to resist the pull of auctions. Ivy Calvin has added his son to the family business, bringing along Ivy Jr with him to increase his chances of success. Rene Nezhoda finds himself re-arranging his business, potentially moving his storefront to a location closer to the other buyers. And let's not forget Kenny Crossley, who's still trying to get the hang of buying treasure-filled units (without having to spend a fortune), all while keeping everyone in stitches. But perhaps the biggest development this season is the long-anticipated return of Barry Weiss. Adopting a strict new buying regimen and working with an internationally-recognized bidding coach, Barry is intent on getting back in the game and playing for keeps this time.

This is Play It Forward. Real people. Real stories. The struggle to Play It Forward. Episode 349 with Dan and Laura Dotson from Storage Wars. "Storage Wars" bidding, buying and selling for an all new season of wild auction battles in California. Fan-favorite auctioneers and buyers including Dan and Laura Dotson, Brandi Passante, Jarrod Schultz, Darrell Sheets, Kenny Crossley, Rene Nezhoda and Casey Nezhoda, as well as Ivy Calvin and his sons return to the lockers in search of the next big find. Viewers will join the thrill of the hunt at the fast-paced auctions for a look into the exhilarating, high-stakes world of storage auctions. Buyers go to the storage facilities, willing to risk it all, to bid on the contents of lockers and if they're lucky, find treasure not just trash! Iconic auctioneers Dan and Laura Dotson once again lead our buyers through unit after unit filled with all kinds of surprises. As for the buyers, Brandi Passante has focused her attention on home staging and storage lockers have a way of offering her all kinds of furniture and knick-knacks. Darrell Sheets is lured out of a cozy retirement, being simply unable to resist the pull of auctions. Ivy Calvin has added his son to the family business, bringing along Ivy Jr with him to increase his chances of success. Rene Nezhoda finds himself re-arranging his business, potentially moving his storefront to a location closer to the other buyers. And let's not forget Kenny Crossley, who's still trying to get the hang of buying treasure-filled units (without having to spend a fortune), all while keeping everyone in stitches. But perhaps the biggest development this season is the long-anticipated return of Barry Weiss. Adopting a strict new buying regimen and working with an internationally-recognized bidding coach, Barry is intent on getting back in the game and playing for keeps this time.

This is Play It Forward. Real people. Real stories. The struggle to Play It Forward. Episode 349 with Dan and Laura Dotson from Storage Wars. "Storage Wars" bidding, buying and selling for an all new season of wild auction battles in California. Fan-favorite auctioneers and buyers including Dan and Laura Dotson, Brandi Passante, Jarrod Schultz, Darrell Sheets, Kenny Crossley, Rene Nezhoda and Casey Nezhoda, as well as Ivy Calvin and his sons return to the lockers in search of the next big find. Viewers will join the thrill of the hunt at the fast-paced auctions for a look into the exhilarating, high-stakes world of storage auctions. Buyers go to the storage facilities, willing to risk it all, to bid on the contents of lockers and if they're lucky, find treasure not just trash! Iconic auctioneers Dan and Laura Dotson once again lead our buyers through unit after unit filled with all kinds of surprises. As for the buyers, Brandi Passante has focused her attention on home staging and storage lockers have a way of offering her all kinds of furniture and knick-knacks. Darrell Sheets is lured out of a cozy retirement, being simply unable to resist the pull of auctions. Ivy Calvin has added his son to the family business, bringing along Ivy Jr with him to increase his chances of success. Rene Nezhoda finds himself re-arranging his business, potentially moving his storefront to a location closer to the other buyers. And let's not forget Kenny Crossley, who's still trying to get the hang of buying treasure-filled units (without having to spend a fortune), all while keeping everyone in stitches. But perhaps the biggest development this season is the long-anticipated return of Barry Weiss. Adopting a strict new buying regimen and working with an internationally-recognized bidding coach, Barry is intent on getting back in the game and playing for keeps this time.

On today's What to Watch: Top Gun: Maverick stars Jay Ellis and Glen Powell visit the men to push them out of their comfort zones, and one guy's admission to Michelle leads to a shocking conclusion on The Bachelorette; DC's Stargirl wraps up its second season as Courtney and her dad try to stop Eclipso; Storage Wars is back for its 14th season, and so is buyer Barry Weiss. Plus, entertainment headlines — including a first look at the Zoey's Extraordinary Christmas movie and new details about Hocus Pocus 2 — and trivia. More at ew.com, ew.com/wtw, and @EW. Host: Gerrad Hall (@gerradhall); Editor/Producer: Joshua Heller (@joshuaheller); Writer: Tyler Aquilina (@tyler_aquilina); Executive Producer: Shana Naomi Krochmal (@shananaomi). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Glam-rock powerhouse, Adam Lambert, took pop music by storm with his handsome looks, electrifying stage theatrics and jaw-dropping vocal acrobatics. He has entertained across the stage, television and radio...and shocked the world along the way. Despite his success, Adam faced constant criticism about being too bold, too offensive and too gay. Hear interviews with family, friends, industry experts and musical luminaries including Barry Weiss and "American Idol" Season 8 winner Kris Allen. Listen in as Adam Lambert comes clean about who he really is and the obstacles he has overcome to get where he is today. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

After going viral on SoundCloud in 2018 with hits like “iPhone” and “Balling Like Shareef”, 24KGoldn found himself in the office of music executive Barry Weiss, who, blown away by the youth's intelligence, charisma, and ear for music, then inked the teenager to his RECORDS LLC label. As an early adopter of TikTok, it was Goldn who pushed for ‘City of Angels” to appear on the platform, going against his management's wishes, only to discover great success. The dude now has over 2 Million followers on the platform which is more fans than he has on any other platform combined. So, how did Goldn find himself going from an honors student in San Francisco to the next big thing? That's what I'm here to tell you about today.

0:00  Hello, everyone, welcome to the gut check project gut check project fans, KBMD health  family, how are you doing? It is now time for episode number 47. I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. 0:13  What's up Episode 47. This is part two of our immunology. So this is I'm pretty excited. Because just this morning, you said you better check out Joe Rogan this morning because Dr. Mark Gordon is on there. And this dude was saying everything that we've been talking about, but I feel like we even have it to the next level. So we're talking to scientists that understand the whole concept of functional nutrition, functional things that I felt like he was saying, everything that we've been talking about now for quite a while like yours0:45  is no doubt the coolest thing is another thing that we'll we'll get to it in a moment. But it's it's all about eating right. having great nutrition, he used an incredible example of India, where Let's face it, a lot of people don't have the economic means that we do here in the United States. However, they're facing COVID, they have the same health issues that we do here, roughly, and they've got a large population. So when comparing apples to apples are talking about nutrition, and there's some specific things in that nutrition when you say,1:17  oh, and we're gonna get into that, in fact, I got an article here that we're gonna go over and I'll spoiler alert for you. But it's exactly what what what we're talking about right now. So we got some feedback. I apologize to everyone the last podcast we did, we were trying some unique things. And we didn't have such good sound quality, but that's what you get when your sponsor is lousy Lavalier comm so we had LousyLavalier.com Yeah, so we dropped them. And so I'm happy to announce that we got a new sponsor, which we did get a new sponsor, and this is awesome. It's actually a hot dog company. They're called diarrhea dogs. And their slogan is, we're not sure what's in the dog, but we know it will give you diarrhea. Yeah. who's who's betting our sponsor?2:05  The cool thing is, is it's a it's a host specific sponsor, so I'm looking for you to tell me how I2:11  know seriously, who in the company is? Is it Mike? is Mike getting sponsors for us, Mike, because I've already cashed a check. We got to keep talking about diarrhea dogs.2:18  It's, I can't this can't keep happening.2:20  We had lousy Lavalier as a sponsor, then we followed up with diarrhea dogs, yeah. Oh, my goodness,2:25  this is not working out.2:26  We're gonna have a little talk with Barry Weiss. How you been man?2:30  doing well, so we're into a brand new year now. What brief amount of time had a great vacation with the family? And it really just in time, right. I mean, there's, everything's kind of limited on what you can do. Yeah. But we it was, it's good to always have the older son come home spend time with him. We started building some furniture over the last couple weeks. So it's a great bonding experience with me and the boys. And of course, Maria is telling us what she wants us to look like. So trying hard to make it. Yeah. But you know, it's it's been a lot of fun. Mac is in the swing of basketball. And so life, normal life is starting to take on a new meaning. But it's it's good.3:09  Yeah. What about you? Well, for us, um, you know, the, the whole COVID lockdown, you start looking at your house a little bit. And so loida kind of convinced me that maybe we should start considering making a few little changes. And it started out with the master bath. And she's like, you know, shoot, can I do a few other things? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So I'm really busy with work and come back. And then you know, next thing I know, the builders or the contractors there and he's like, Look, okay, so this is what we've designed. Here's the plans, bla bla bla bla bla, and, you know, he's like, we're gonna buy the neighbor's house and we're gonna, you know, tear, tear this one down. But I mean, it was just I'm like, Whoa, we're doing a lot of work here. So I'm already in it. We're gonna be in this house for a long time. It's a great area. You notice everybody's moving to Texas. They definitely dragons bringing everybody down here. So following him. So at3:54  any point, did you have a spreadsheet that said, redo house or simply burn house?4:01  Well, then it's like one of those shows. Like once you see the plans, you're like, Oh, yeah, I want it to look like that. But you know, and oh, guess what I did today was that guess what I did? 30 seconds ago. Oh,4:12  I know what you did? Yeah, you got into crypto.4:15  So as we're setting up to do this show, we started having a conversation about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and people have been telling me to get involved. So in a spur of the moment, while Eric was setting up the mics and everything I bought some Bitcoin Yeah, go Bitcoin.4:29  Yeah. And and we need to probably have a disclaimer that we know nothing about cryptocurrency. Oh, absolutely. Nothing nice. But yeah, it was really kind of cool to watch you do it.4:36  Yeah. So we've covered our sponsors. A little word with the person that's choosing them in the future. And so let's jump into the immune episode part two. So even if the audio is a little bit off on that last one, I encourage everyone to look at our last podcast, because I do a detailed explanation in or at least detailed for a simple country butt Dr. That's living in Texas for the innate immune system, and I actually rewatched it when we were getting the comments great information, audio bad. And at the very end, I go, so that covers the adaptive immune system. I'm like, No, I should have no it was the innate, we did not cover the adaptive yet. There's a reason why that's coming, because then we're going to lead into the vaccinations for COVID and things. Right. So that was the innate. But here's what's really cool. We're gonna talk about what Dr. Mark Gordon was talking about on Joe show. And it's super cool. Like we've been on top of this the whole time. It's been it's it's actually huge, huge news for everyone.5:36  I think a lot of people can learn a lot about what they can do just to protect themselves. And let's small preface, you don't have to just apply the knowledge that you'll pick up today to COVID. COVID actually can begin to fit into other viruses with this talk that we're going to have today.5:52  Yes. And specifically, this is not a COVID talk. We're not saying that at all. What we're saying is we're gonna talk about how to optimize a well running immune system. Yeah. And so when I talked to some of my colleagues and people discuss different things, Angie, and I were talking that she's like, have you looked at our Mendeley account? So Mendeley is where we put all our articles, and I just did a quick look. We have over 1000 articles regarding immune health and how to optimize it through nutrition and lifestyle. Yeah. So even that is science backed. Everything we're talking about here is completely science backed. In fact, one of the things I wanted to discuss because I think it's really cool is this article that just came out in 2020. It's called the antiviral functional foods and exercise, lifestyle prevention of Coronavirus. That's a very boring title. And those are the kinds of things that I read. And it was published in the Journal of nutrients. What's fascinating about this is that they discuss the things that other people are now just finally starting to talk about. Yeah, so I want to review this article really quick. Then I want to get back to the whiteboard. And hopefully sound a little bit better.7:06  We're gonna use headphones today.7:07  Yeah, we're gonna try and use headphones. I got a new mic attached to a hemorrhoid bander because I feel very comfortable holding hemorrhoid banders. Yeah, so that is dry tone right there. That is right there. 7:20  that's almost as good as the Bob Barker microphone from the remember the little skinny one that he had on7:28  the show? Yeah, when they tell you to go spay and neuter your dog.7:31  Yeah. spay and neuter your dog spin the wheel. Drive. I can't wait. I had a hard time of that. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Great show.7:37  So basically, on this article, it's really interesting. Not actually not interesting. For us. It was it just reiterated everything that we've kind of base talking about. What they looked into was functional foods. They called it functional foods, and physical exercise. So the exercise part was a brief part than 90% of the article was talking about functional foods, which they described as functional foods being polyphenols.8:02  Incredible.8:02  So the functional foods are polyphenols because of the various mechanisms that they do in the body. We got contacted by an author of the sirt diet. That's sirtuins. And he noticed that we've been talking about polyphenols and said, Wow, you guys are on that. So the whole thing about Adele's diet that she lost all that weight, that's called the sirtuin diet or the sirt diet. And then I've watched it on Dr. Oz. And I was like, there's something about polyphenols, polyphenols. And the reason why is you're gonna see on this whiteboard, how many different ways a functional food like a poly phenol can benefit you definitely. And so the cert diet just means that you turn on certain genes, it's an epigenetic thing. So really quick on the exercise. No big surprise, as it turns out, exercise is pretty good for you. Sure. So they looked at different aspects of it. And what it does do is it does activate natural killer cells, and will induce monocytes to become antigen presenting cells like dendritic cells. If you go I don't know what that is. We talked about that on the last episode. And we're going to get to it again here. So don't worry. That being said, super extreme exercise, which we have talked about this can actually lower your immune system. So many times when people train super hard, and we're talking about like, marathons and triathlons and marathon running. I've had so many patients that get very sick after they really train for something, they go all out, and then they get sick. And it's because I didn't even realize this, that you produce so many reactive oxygen species. This damages cells, which leads to inflammation, you're gonna hear this term over and over again. And then it actually adversely affects your white blood cells ability to fight off infections. Yeah. So the real idea is that regular exercise is really good for you. It gets rid of old immune cells that don't work very well. And you actually stimulate young healthy cells that can actually have a young, healthier immune system. It has been shown that highly conditioned athletes have a much better functioning innate immune system, as opposed to sedentary people. Yeah. So when we're sitting in a viral season, and if you're sedentary and you're overweight, and you got diabetes and high blood pressure, your immune system doesn't work as well. And there's reasons for this in this paper. So then they kind of went through that they're like, yeah, okay, so exercise is good. And then they go into 90% of the rest of the article is discussing polyphenols and the multiple areas that these functional foods benefit our immune system. Okay. And, oh, we're probably jumping ahead. What's a polyphenol?10:40  Oh, what is it polyphenol? Yeah, tell everybody what a polyphenol islittle compounds that are found. And fruits and vegetables. Generally they are what can be responsible for the coloration that's inside those fruits and vegetables. And they they're naturally occurring. Some of them are large, or small. But in essence, our bodies love them.10:59  Absolutely. So I always refer to them as mother nature's secret weapon. This particular article goes into great detail about how the flavonoids, terpenoids alkaloids in the polyphenols, so they can go into that are actually bio active, they can influence genes have peptide qualities, and are broken down by our microbiome into potent anti aging, anti inflammatory, anti cancer metabolites.11:25  Right. You know, I was thinking about this, how do we bring validation to this part of this study, or the I'm sorry, the discussion, I guess, whenever we're talking about this to people, because I started thinking about, if someone years ago when you were when you were young, and someone said, you probably need more calcium to make your bones strong, you didn't just go to the store and buy sack of calcium, you generally just started drinking more milk or something similar. Or if you were an athlete, and you knew that you needed to make sure that you didn't get cramps, you ate bananas, or ate spinach, all of that stuff, you didn't go and just buy the little element, those elements are naturally occurring in something that you're eating or drinking. That's essentially what we're trying to talk about with polyphenols is there are small little things in there that your body craves, just like your bones want calcium, the these are the vehicles, these are the foods that will deliver what your body wants to maintain health and keep you healthy 100%. And they mentioned how versatile polyphenols are.12:24  Oh yeah, meaning they function in many different ways. Number one, they can have potential influence on your gut barrier, where they improve the immune system of the gut barrier, the first portion of that, then they actually have epigenetic phenomenon. Most important is that your microbiome will break these things down to beneficial products. And that's going to be something that we've talked about post biotics before, I'm very excited. We've contacted this a PhD in Argentina, who has one of the most amazing articles describing the post biotic effect. And they actually demonstrate that the larger, more complex polyphenol is the best way to consume it. In other words, yeah, you don't want to take the one little molecule. So that's pretty much what they said about polyphenols, because we're gonna talk a lot more about that. And then it kind of like briefly go over Oh, and then there's vitamin D, which is pretty good for y'all. So vitamin D deserves its own show, because it's more like a hormone than it is like a vitamin here. And then they look at a couple other things like vitamin C and stuff, and they kind of gloss over it. And then they come back to the polyphenols. And they're like, and then they reference to the viruses. And they show how there's so much information out there about how these polyphenols actually influence the destruction of multiple viruses like influenza, Zika, virus, HSV, and Corona.13:45  And there's a mechanism to and there's13:47  a mechanism for each one of these. So the conclusion is, and this is, I hate to say Joe Rogan, for the third time in about first five minutes, it'll validate what we say. He's always said, why aren't we discussing ways to improve our immune system, prevent ourselves and do this, these guys end the whole article, and by the way, it's thick 20, some pages with references and everything they end it with the conclusion is, this is a pretty cheap and simple way to improve your immune system or optimize, get some exercise, eat some polyphenols and get a little sun. Yeah, that was the combination of it. All right. And and these people put a lot of work into that. And that that's a spoiler alert.14:31  I think I might have said though it's really, really important is that there's a lot of work. There's a lot of research, there's a lot to take in here. However the solution if you really think about it, it isn't that difficult to adhere to this to keep to keep people healthy. That's actually the coolest part. The summary of it all is polyphenol, sleep exercise. You're off to an incredible start just with that and don't i don't think you should shy away from Rogan at all. He supports tons of other podcasts gives huge mentions to other people. They're doing the same thing. When I heard Dr. Mark on this morning with him, I just I liked it because it not only was somebody else talking about the same subject, but he was doing it in such detail that we like to talk about it, that I encourage you, we're not the only ones who have this level of research and are seeing these kinds of results with people.15:22  Oh, it's so cool. And now because we're in these circles with these PhDs, I'm getting preliminary data on different studies where it's humans, where they're looking at what I'm going to talk about here. Yeah. So what I thought we could do is try and do round two, you put some headphones on, 15:37  I'm going to have to,15:38  I'm going to grab my Bob Barker mic right here. I'm going to turn this one15:46  that was kind of quiet. And now I'm going to come back like this. There he is. This is why we have headphones. This is15:52  why we have headphones. And now I'm going to switch the cameraprobably should have you looked at the computer to make sure that I'm in focus and everything. And now, let's do a recap of the last. And that's not a window of the last podcast that we did. This is a kind of quicker version of what we did. And this is to get everybody up to speed because when we talk about polyphenols, we need to make sure that you understand exactly what's going on and why there are functional food. So just to recap, the innate immune system is your response to any type of damage, whether that damage is through physical damage, whether that damage is through infection, whether that damage is through repeated poor diet choices, your body is going to try and repair itself. So let's walk through what happens. The first step, step one, let's just assume that you have an infection. If you have a virus or bacteria, what it will do is it will attack a cell. So that cell no matter what it is, sounds an alarm. And it notifies its neighbor, which is kind of its bodyguard, the mast cell. The mast cell then releases what is called braided cinan. This is really neat, because if you ever sprained an ankle or done anything, this is what's going on. The braided cinan send different proteins or cytokines to the blood vessel. First step is the blood vessel. And what it does is it actually normally the blood vessels have very tight seals, what it does is the blood vessels pull apart a little bit to allow fluid to come out. Well, the reason for that is is that you want the swelling to contain whatever's going on. You sprained an ankle, you go oh my gosh, look at my ankle, it's so swollen, well, it's there for a reason, because that fluid is trying to concentrate what your body needs in the same area. So the fluid starts coming out step to these braded cinan, and different other cytokines send up little flags, just like Velcro sticks. And these are called intercellular adhesion molecules. And what they do is they grab white blood cells that are swimming by so these white blood cells have these little hooks and they get hit and they stop and they go, Oh, what's going on all the fluids going out that way, I'm gonna go out that way. So then the white blood cells join this little party over here. This is what ends up causing redness, swelling and pain anytime you have any type of infection, anytime you have any type of injury. So now we have these white blood cells, what they do is they go, Oh, that mast cell told us to go that way. And so the white blood cells head over to what's going on. And then this allows your body to fight the intruder that's doing this. So that's step one. So now these white blood cells come around. You heard me say in that other study the antigen presenting cells. So one of these types of cells, which is a phagocyte, will actually first thing it does is it swallows the invader, bacteria, virus, fungus, whatever it is, swallows it, and the reason why does it it digests it, and then it breaks it apart and goes, Okay, this is what it looks like. So it puts wanted posters on its outside. So this guy said, I know what's attacking us now, this, this guy right here. So these antigen presenting cells, put it on the outside, and then they do something else. They release cytokines, specifically, multiple cytokines, but the important ones are TNF alpha, interleukin six, interleukin one, interleukin eight, and you're going to hear a lot more about this, because I'm talking to scientists all over the world. And people are now studying specifically how we can use functional foods to control this response. So TNF alpha, does a lot of things. It's a pro inflammatory cytokine. And so we know that TNF alpha is used in very expensive drugs block that for rheumatory arthritis for Crohn's disease for ulcerative colitis for all of that. So TNF alpha does something kind of interesting that I found unique is it actually goes to the hypothalamus and it increases your core body temperature. So when I say these are bad, they're really good for you in small amounts, it's when it becomes too much that it becomes bad. So TNF alpha hits the hypothalamus increases, and that's how you get fever, interleukin six, it goes to the bone marrow and increases the white blood cells. So this is why you have that achy feeling if you've ever had the flu, or if you're gonna get a vaccine, and you go, Oh, my gosh, I had a vaccine, that kind of hurt, I feel like I have a low level flu. It's because the bone marrow is producing more white blood cells. interleukin one goes to the liver to produce acute inflammatory reactance, which goes into something called the complement system. But that inflammation is what we measure in people. In fact, cardiologists use this all the time they look at C reactive protein, yeah, because when you have inflammation, the liver produces this. So people with coronary disease will have increased levels of that, and then interleukin eight.Fascinating, it basically produces more of those little Velcro hands. So then we come all the way back to the blood vessel. And now we've got dilation, fluid coming out. And every white blood cell that's coming through gets grabbed. So when you have the white blood cells producing here, you've got the fever, which increases the amount of blood flow heart rate is faster, everything. It's an phenomenal and just beautiful little system. Yeah, it is. And when it works great. It's exactly what we need. It's exactly what you need. In the acute phase. Definitely the innate immune system is here to protect you in the first phase. So now step three of the innate immune system out of you, but that's the antigen presenting cell, the one that we were talking about over here, sometimes they sometimes they get overwhelmed, and the virus actually wins. So the poor little guy dies. It's that's a good cartoon. Yeah, so the poor guy dies here. So the antigen presenting cell dies. So it leaves rubble, so it's comes out and the body even gets that. So reactive oxygen species are left behind, that's known as oxidative stress. That's good in small amounts, because that will kill other things around it. Assuming that this guy got overwhelmed when he dies. Maybe other cells are being overwhelmed, and then that oxidative stress will kill it. Yep. This is known as a reactive oxygen species or reactive nitrogen species. But when that goes on for a long time, that's what actually causes chronic disease, like heart disease, cancer, aging, this is actually why we age, reactive oxygen species, autoimmune disease, dementia and obesity. Nobody ever thought that you can become fat because you have low level chronic inflammation. And I've talked about this on other episodes. 22:56  Definitely.22:57   So final step here is the thing you didn't know about, which is the toll like receptors, right? Okay, so toll like receptors is just another layer of defense, where if these toll like receptors are actually activated, they do very specific things. For instance, the toll like receptor number seven, is very specific to release certain things to fight RNA viruses. You can go through these others, there are ones that are built to fight bacteria that are flageolets flageolets. Yeah, I think we're both saying that wrong, but that's okay. fragilities, flageilities. And they also do something that we have talked about before, I want to say we talked about it. On at least three episodes, I can think of the epigenetic phenomenon of nuclear factor Kappa beta NFKB. So when the toll like receptors turned on NFKB goes up. And NFKB is the one that we talked about with the broccoli episode, right? with David Roberts and john gilday. On Yeah, this is the one that actually has a what's called plio trophic phenomenon. So it affects many different things. So when NF Kappa beta is turned on, then you go through a huge surge of our old friends, TNF alpha, interleukin six, right? So he has more inflammation with inflammation, the common theme of inflammation, right? So inflammation, what does inflammation lead to? Oh, this dementia, autoimmune aging, cancer, heart attack na, so this innate immune system is here. The other thing that I did not mention was that when the toll like receptors get turned on, like this toll like receptor number seven, which is for viruses, one of the things that releases is interferons. interferons, actually, are molecules that directly destroy cells that have been infected with viruses. So if you were to get a virus, you breathe it in through your nose, let's say it goes to your lungs, a cell is being attacked, it can actually send a signal to a healthy cell says We're under attack, you need to be ready for this. And that's the little cell that waits with a gun at the door. So when the virus rings, the doorbell goes and shoots it. That's not proper technique and how you shoot it. We've25:21  seen actual footage of this going down at a microscopic level. So yeah,25:24  it's it's fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. It's like watching an old Western, just like oh, my gosh, and the. And it's totally true. Because the viruses that show up, they always wear black hats every time every time. Yeah. So that's a recap of very quick recap of what we talked about last episode. Yeah, I get it a little bit more detail. How's it? How's the sound quality?25:47  The sound is much better than last time.25:49  Okay, good. So hopefully, we'll continue with this. So how do we describe how functional foods work? Because our big thing last time was improve your immune system do this, but nobody talks about how, why?26:05  I've got a question for you. So when we look at this, and I think this is a reasonable question, you look at it, and we're talking about all the bad manifestations that happen. When there's too much TNF alpha, or aisle six or aisle one, we have too much row s, or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation, species, ultimately, too much inflammation. But I needed all of this to happen. So, Dr. Brown, what is it that I'm missing? That would help me not have the system that I need? That keeps me alive and safe, run out of control? And basically, ultimately destroy me anyhow?26:42  Absolutely. So what we're talking about is how do you optimize? Yeah, well, running immune system. Definitely. One of the theories right now is that why do younger people not get sick with the current virus that's going around, is because they have a very good innate immune system. As we age, as I mentioned, as we age or you become sedentary, possibly, this happens. And so you go, Oh, well, I still don't get that. We'll imagine this. Imagine quietly, this attack happens, virus, bacteria, anything, and your innate immune system is kind of slow to react. And by the time it realizes, Oh, my gosh, something's going on. Many cells have been infected. Which means when these cytokines go up, it's a huge amount. If you have a really healthy innate immune system, you catch it at the first cell. Yep. So let's talk about functional foods. functional foods, functional foods, polyphenols, so I'm going to use these little brand. These little hexagons. Yeah. Demonstrate functional six added. Yes. Excited. Whatever you go.27:50  All right. Now hexagon, you're27:52  right. This is all based off of science. All based off of very detailed documented, I want to thank every PhD out there who goes through this kind of trouble and probably gets no recognition. Because this is Sony. And, you know, we're talking about so when Dr. Mark Gordon was on his show today, he didn't really understand why course it's an or why tumeric does this. Let's talk about that. Let's do that. All right, step one. So this will represent the different stages that it actually happens. Step one, intestinal gut health, intestinal gut health, that's your first barrier. Anything that comes in, you're going to make sure that you have a good healthy working gut, healthy work in gut. Step two. We know that it has potent antiviral activity. I mentioned earlier in the other article about how these functional foods can actually destroy viruses on contact.28:52  So we've got gut and the virus itself.28:54  antivirus itself step. If the virus makes it past that, inside the cell itself, is the M protease that allows the virus but bacteria do this also. It has to attach to the cell. Well, what does it do? It prevents it from attaching then, oh my gosh, this is a really tough virus and it made it through all these lines of defense already. Yeah. Well, as it turns out, bunch of foods polyphenols actually work zinc Ionafores and prevent the replication29:35  Hmm. Blocking replicase 29:37  replicase correct. Nice actually blocks the replication.29:42  So So right now we have four tags up and we're still on number one of the innate immune system. That's29:47  why it's so important to understand the innate immune system. Yes. And why nobody's talking about this. I'm going to keep going. Yeah, and this is not once again, this is not my opinion. Yeah. We've got 1000 articles to To show all of it, right? Okay, so now we got our friend, the mast cell over here and everything that I'm saying is not an on or off switch, it's the optimized way to do it. If your body needs it, these functional foods help it ramp it up. If it doesn't, it does it. Alright, so the mast cell that releases the braided cinans that go to the blood vessel, oh, the mast cell actually gets stabilized by functional foods, polyphenols, nice. So it doesn't overreact or under react, then it's almost like, really, truly Mother Nature's secret weapon, then the blood vessels which release the fluids, there's something called or I forgot what the actual enzyme is, but it actually attenuates the enzyme that creates the leakage. So it controls the amount of fluid that comes out. And in the same line, what it does is it actually controls the amount of the adhesion molecules, so all those little hooks that grab that, right, it actually does the optimum amount for that. Okay. So getting back, this is why Dr. Mark Gordon was like, Oh, we have shown that it helps with inflammation, I'm going to tell you exactly where it helps, right whole pathway. Okay, so we've now blocked the little adhesion molecules so that only the right amount of cells come out, only the right amount of cells come out. And remember, when I said that it monocytes become our antigen presenting cells, it helps them mature. Oh, it's like steroids for those guys.31:35  So it activates them. It's a growth hormone, right? So we're allowing these phagocytes to now do their role. And by having the right amount of polyphenols available, it's going to do it quicker.31:45  Exactly. So we're now heading to step two. So what does it do? Oh, yeah. It helps the antigen presenting cells, taking the vacuoles and put those different proteins on the outside quicker, because it's already made these more mature. And then we get to the real important part, it tells the antigen presenting cell, yo, be a little careful how many cytokines you send out. Hmm. So there's multiple studies looking at each one of these. And so I'll do this real quick. While you're32:19  putting those up there, I'll just add that Dr. Gordon spoke today specifically about how high circulating cytokines lead to insomnia and an inability to rest enough because it causes neural inflammation, which is just building on it. That's32:33  right. He did, he talked to specifically about that. And that's that brain gut connection and percent inflammation, that's what we always talk about. So as it turns out, it tells the antigen presenting cell, Hey, be careful what you do, then just to make sure as another safeguard, it specifically will control how much TNF alpha, how much interleukin six, how much interleukin one and how much interleukin eight is actually necessary. And these are all documented on specific studies. And I know that these are being done in humans right now, because I'm getting preliminary results. And they're showing very specific in vivo, meaning people that have this kind of situation, actually decrease these different cytokines. So it's not just a total decrease. It's the right amount. So if you need more white blood cells, then there's no reason to shut it off completely. Right. Like we just can't You can't be smarter than Mother Nature. Yeah, comes down to Okay, how am I sounding sound good. All right. Now, let's go to it's a lot better than last week. So so let's go to Step three, the antigen presenting cells that do this, also do another job, briefly, which we will get into in some other episode, or will bring a better person to do it. Some of those cells go to the lymph system, where they then activate the adaptive immune system where they form antibodies.33:56  Very, very important,33:58  relevant right now, because if everybody's running out getting a vaccine, that's what you're working on worthless unless you have this optimal.34:04  Yeah. 100%.34:06  So we won't get into that. But guess what functional foods polyphenols do?34:10  Oh, you don't even tell me that. They also work on that side. They also work on that. It's almost like your body wants polyphenols.34:16  It's almost like your body wants polyphenols. And of course, while we're at it, I mean, it's like it's almost like no, no, now he's just going overboard. No, no, I mean, it's, trust me, I read every article. It's like I feel like I'm making stuff up. Now. It helps produce interferons. It helps control the toll like receptors.34:43  So means you're just a side note. interferon if anybody's ever dealt with early stage, melanoma, I mean, there are various cancers that you actually had to end up getting injections for interferon.34:54  I did I really thought you're gonna go if anybody's ever dealt with herpes. Now I'm dead serious. Yeah, like Libya isn't interferon?35:02  Absolutely. It isn't interferon. I'm just saying I guess what I was going is, is that35:07  if you've ever dealt with herpes, you kind of looked at me like, no.35:11  That's how I felt.35:16  But this is true. So drugs do this. You're exactly right. chemo drugs and drugs like a cycle of beer. They're their interferons. Yeah, because they block viruses. So polyphenols help increase the amount of interference when it's necessary. Correct. And by blocking the toll like receptors and controlling that. They actually decrease nuclear factor Kappa beta nfkb. We had that talk with Brocelite. So polyphenols and sulforaphane block, NF Kappa beta. So35:46  I was making sure that you're making contact with the people in the room. Do you think I was I was waving over somewhere else?35:52  I thought you were having a hallucination. So all right, so we blocked NF Kappa beta, which ultimately we know does the most major thing inflammation. So we've been saying a long time that the Mediterranean diet is an anti aging, anti inflammatory diet. Yes. This is why when Adele did her sert diet, this is why it works. You decrease overall inflammation, definitely the whole process. And because, oh, I skipped a little step here. But one thing that we always talk about is the potent antioxidant effects.36:33  Yeah, I'm glad you're getting this part because we're going to augment this little section here, too.36:37  Yeah. So tell me what you got to say about antioxidant.36:39  What is it immediately takes me back because ROS is something that Joe botel and we've referenced her on the show multiple times. But when she was talking specifically about long endurance athletes and how they get injury, and how certain people who are high performance athletes get injured and have a difficult time recovering, it's often because they don't have good control of their RMS or reactive oxygenation species. you're pointing at something, but I'm not on camera. Oh, I am now. So there we go. I didn't know that. There's no red lights in here, by the way. But I find that to be a really big key aspect about rlms. And what polyphenols do because she specifically said to it to decrease healing time and increase optimal athletic performance, high polyphenol concentration, or normal amount is a must, and that our bodies are simply waiting on enough polyphenols to do this job.37:34  Yes. 100%. So now the final part here is more of a vague, you get a picture camera now to fix the camera. You can't take me by surprise anymore. I mean, we can hire Mike to find our to find our podcast sponsors, but we can't even hire a good audio visual guy.37:50  I don't think that hot dog company comes with that.37:56  Alright, so we get down to this last thing here, which is chronic disease. So what we talked about low level inflammation. This is how you can protect yourself against heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia and obesity. And I put this one up as a general one, because we mentioned it a little bit, I want to talk about it right after this, about how large stable polyphenols I found an article that showed the more hydroxyl bonds on the outside, more beneficial is. That's why when we initially were developing Atrantil, and Dr. Bruce Burnett looked at this and said you picked the perfect poly phenol to be the most bioactive and most diverse.38:37  That's all he does. There's there's more points to do stuff. It's like more surfaces. It's more38:41  surface area. Exactly. And then in addition to that, we know that in all these articles, so if you're somebody you're like, Oh, I already take tumeric. I already take quercetin and that's awesome. Keep doing that. Yeah, keep doing that. But you have to understand something tumeric and quercetin don't get directly absorbed, they actually have to go to the microbiome where they get broken down into the metabolites. I've got articles to show what is the effective metabolite, of quercetin. So when Dr. Mark was talking about that, I want to tell him, that's awesome. But you better make sure that you have a good microbiome. So what this represents is the prebiotic ability of polyphenols to diversify your microbiome so that when you take these things, you're getting the appropriate we're gonna call them the appropriate metabolites. I call them post biotics, but we're gonna call him the appropriate metabolite.39:31  It's a honestly it's kind of like if, if you look at the way that he talked about ecgc, and, and tumeric, and trying to enforce it and etc. He broke all those down and talked about their beneficial natures as it pertains to inflammation. But what you're describing, if I can kind of put it into layman's terms, it's almost as if that is great. And you can get an Uber to have that delivered to somewhere and you hope it's a great car and you hope It gets you there comfortably. But in order for it to be effective and get there on time you want a private car you want the limousine. The limousine is the larger molecule, the all natural, larger parent molecule, if you will, kind of like what's in Atrantil and abbraccio to do that,40:17  exactly. So what you want to be able to do and what we're saying is not just supplements. Now, this is why you want to have a very colorful plate. That's why you want to have lots of fruits and vegetables. Yeah, continue to do that. Try to do every non GMO foods and vegetables. But when we're talking about polyphenols, very few things concentrate polyphenols, so when you're like, Oh, I heard Dr. Oz talked about reservatrol polyphenol. Oh, I heard someone so talk about Kirsten, polyphenol. Oh, but you know what? I drink green tea, polyphenol. Yeah. And they all get broken down. Here's what's fascinating. And I can't wait to do this. When we have Dr. Sylvia on her research is showing that you can produce quercetin egcg, which is green tea extract. You can produce the metabolites of curcumin and all these things from larger tannins. Yeah, that's what I mean, this is so fascinating, and your body knows how to do it. And you know what? I mean? Do me a favor, when you get done watching this, go to COVID? episode number two, because we did that in March. Yeah. And we were right, because we talked to scientists all the time. We're always doing this. So Sofia said, You know what, I'm gonna challenge you not to we will share the mic even though the You and I both been tested, like yesterday. Yeah, for COVID and we're negative, can you walk through and just explain what each one of these days does really quick, 41:30  I'm going to try Okay, so that a right there is going to prevent the virus itself that a if there's for the gut microbiome, that a I believe is going to prevent it from binding to that set of cells, that one is going to function as a zincionafor prevent or allowing zinc to go in and stop the replicates that is a mast cell that's going to help control the number of goodness gracious, I guess those little inflammatory markers that are going to go to the blood vessel braided cinans kind of There you go, and then be circulated which of course, we're going to regulate the amount of fluid that's going to leave the bloodstream and we're going to stop the amount of flags are gonna pop up as appropriate. Orders one, Oh, that one is a phagocytes, that's going to improve the the maturation of the phagocytes the one just below it is going to help the phagocytes since they are maturing more quickly, it's going to allow the them to display quicker and then it's going to regulate the number of cytokines which is TNF alpha, IL six, IL one and il eight. And I don't know if I'm gonna go through the mechanisms of those but that's okay. Oh, yeah, good, quick. TNF. Alpha is for the brain. IL six is for the bone and it's because of white blood cell maturation IL one is for infection and inflammatory things that come from the liver and i l eight, is what is going to basically start the cycle all over again, where the fluid is, is being summoned and redness, swelling and pain.42:55  Excellent. Stage three.42:56  Okay, that's the presenting. Yeah, it is. And that's where the cells dying, we get to oxygen a oxidative stress. Yeah, it says that. But we need to control our ros because it's not the RO S is bad. Too much ros, though, can lead to long term heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia, obesity, and adaptive antibodies, we aren't going to go all the way through there. But essentially, aside from the innate immune system, we need help in the adaptive immune system as well.43:28  It would be fascinating to see what the antibody levels of people that are vaccinated if you're scientists out there on your on your cool study will supply you with some big polyphenols and see if people mount a better antibody response. If it lasts longer. These are all just fascinating questions. What's this?43:45  So when we get over here to TLR, we this is what is going to function as another flag zone, where we're going to signal the liver to then produce interferon, which functions to fight cancers and all kinds of different things like that. And then we have NF kb. We've talked about this extensively, whenever we had Brock elite on the show, both john and David was gonna say, Robert, but it's David Roberts on the show. And essentially, what we want to do is not have this gigantic burst of TNF alpha, and IL six because it's just going to turn into more inflammation. And again, Polly finos once again, aren't going to abandon you. They're still going to work even on that end. Okay.44:32  You're so much smarter than I thought you were. Nice job.44:36  I just remember a lot.44:38  Can you hear me on this one?44:39  Yeah, yeah, that was never good.44:41  You can probably take the headphones off now to show everybody. So did that make sense? I44:47  think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's a lot of information. Not everybody is going to just readily walk away, like we just did from it, but watch it several times. I think though, really what we're trying to show here is that We don't want to just say that we don't want to just say that polyphenols they'll work with with viral or bacterial infection. This is something that I wish more people would do you tell me that something works. Just explain how show me how how do you know that it's going to work? And I'm not saying that people don't have markers or blood enzymes or circulating things that they measure, they see things go down. That's important that lets you know that we're on the right track. But this kind of stuff, this kind of research that you've been sifting through with Angie, is just awesome. Because now it's almost like putting a name to the face. We can see how it's working. Exactly. So I think it's important. 45:41  And this doesn't just stop here because you know, Angie's episode, people, it's really being shared a lot. Oh, yeah, just people if you have pots or Ehlers danlos or CBOE or anything, people thousands of downloads on the podcast, by the way. Yeah. And she describes how when you have NF Kappa beta up, yeah, you're gonna have decreased acetylcholine when TNF alpha like this is all the balance in that. Yeah. The key is to see the colon whenever Yeah, but that's a whole separate conversation. This is strictly on the innate immune system, right. And so I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating that when I listen to another doctor talk about this, and I'm like that I very much like, very much like me, like, I'll listen to stuff and the patients will ask me, they're like, hey, do you know about this? And I'm like, I don't have the bandwidth and the time to do it. That's awesome, which is why I kind of tasked or I didn't task. She did it on her own, which is why Angie learned so much about dysautonomia, like I just don't have that in me right now or the time to do it. And she crushed it. Yeah. And one of the what we've been emailing, she's been emailed by so many people, she's gonna keep going, she's gonna end up writing a book and probably saving a lot of people. And so this is this is first step, innate immune system. I tell all my patients, let's exercise a little I don't care what you do, just get up off the couch and move around, right? Doesn't really matter what, don't eat highly processed foods, like high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, anything, you're open in a package, read the label, because that breaks down that Mary, Mary Mary first step, which is gut health. All health begins and ends in the gut, definitely. And then get your polyphenols, get a little sun, get some sleep. Do you do that? That's better than what's better than most are doing.47:32  I mean, it really is. And it's, it seems complicated. And but in the end, the actionable items really aren't that complicated.47:41  I mean, when we're in some weird times, I mean, let's be honest, we're taping this episode. The day after we had that weird thing that happened last night or yesterday where47:51  you didn't get your change back at the store. I didn't47:53  get my change back. I'm still upset about that. The lady was clearly distracted, because apparently our government was overrun by48:02  Oh, yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah.48:05  And so these are stressful times. Yeah, we got to keep the inflammation down. There's nothing to cause inflammation. Yeah, don't, don't bring it upon yourself. Don't eat bad. Don't lose sleep, and make sure that you get your polyphenols.48:17  To my knowledge, polyphenols won't directly help bad politics, but maybe those politicians could use some more polyphenols and they wouldn't act so crazy.48:26  Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. Because what I want to do, and I believe that this will be the future we're gonna be sitting here 50 years from now we're gonna look the same because of the anti aging qualities of polyphenols. The 50 years from now we're gonna be like, wasn't that great that they put psilocybin in the water so that we all treat each other nice. You know? It's so you're just gonna pull up instead of Starbucks, you're gonna pull up to MDMA cafes? And I'm not kidding. Like the research on that is like, we're gonna go there also. Yeah, there. Somebody joined at baby bathwater Dr. Raven, I was reading his profile, really cool. And we're gonna I'm gonna try to bring him on here. But he's got a device called an Apollo device, which vibrates when you're not breathing appropriately, which means if and we're gonna do a whole episode on breath work, and we got our we just got all kinds of cool stuff to do. But you can't, you can't leave this hanging like, this is important. Look at all those. Look at all those one last time here. Let's just look at the amount of places.49:29  Places I'm just counting right now. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 19 20 looks like there's almost 20 things out there49:40  that I found in a guy like Bruce Burnett, sitting at home, he's like, there's 38 you're missing the critical ones. 38 on line one. I know. Well, this is this is what you get when you let a doctor try and try and try and describe this.49:54  Yeah, but seriously, I think the takeaway here is that we can put there's no Muscle behind the message there, it really does work. And this is not specific to any one virus or any one bacteria. This is what your body needs in order for your immune system to work efficiently just so happens, that it works really, really well for what a lot of people are concerned about.50:18  It does and you just came up with a whole new idea. But as we close this out I think I'm gonna attach this next time I do a hemorrhoid on a patient so we can hear50:27  the hemorrhoid. Be sure that requires some type of consent. But yeah, I think it's awesome.50:34  All right. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this. I hope that this is something that makes some sense, please share it, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to the I guess all the other platforms, iTunes and Spotify and 50:52  we are honestly the run on Atrantil at the KBMD store has been kind of intense over the last two months. So number one, thanks for everyone for sharing all the information here recently we're doing all that we can to bring that part back online but we'll have an associated discount probably with this particular show. Just in general with with the immune system. Yeah, and as soon as that rolls out, then we'll make that available and all the show notes etc.51:15  Totally and thank you diarrhea dogs for this episode go to diarrhea dogs.com put in code Mike for a 98% discount.51:26  I can't wait to find out what people email in and say what's it diarrhea dogs.com.51:33  Remember, it's code Mike, for 98% discount.51:39  I think it's probably gonna do it for us. Thank you all for joining us on the gut check project please like and share and we will see y'all with 48 with some continuation on the immune system. Talk to you then51:49  bye bye. Thank you.

Today we have the fantastic Jenna Andrews! She's a singer, songwriter, and vocal producer whose credits include Benee's addictive "Supalonely" (currently still going strong worldwide with close to 500 million streams) and BTS' bonafide hit "Dynamite" and "Savage Love". Her career began as an artist herself signed to Island Def Jam, to writing for Drake + Majid Jordan and J-Lo and Noah Cyrus to name a few, to consulting for Barry Weiss' RECORDS label to her joint venture with Weiss, publishing company Twentyseven Music at Sony/ATV. Jenna recently launched The Green Room - a conversation series centered around mental health in the entertainment industry. In partnership with The Jed Foundation (suicide prevention for teens non-profit org) and She Is The Music (nonprofit organization increasing the number of women working in music), Jenna features an artist and a mental health professional in each 45-min discussion. Past guests have included Lennon Stella, Kiesza, Pixie Lott, Rebecca Black, and more. By connecting with artists and professionals in the field of mental and emotional health – Jenna’s mission is to help others feel a sense of relief through open and honest conversations with some of our favorite creators. Today we get a closer look at how Jenna got started in the music industry and her new podcast show, The Green Room! Big Sister Jenna coming our way y’all! Congrats on the Isolation award as well as the Grammy nom! Tune in to The Green Room on Youtube and when it comes out on podcast platforms such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more for season one next year!The Green Room 'Gram: @thegreenroomtalks Jenna Andrews 'Gram: @thejennandrewsJenna Andrews Twitter: @thejennaandrews Jenna Andrews' Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheJennaAndrewsJenna Andrews Website: http://www.thejennaandrews.com/SSR ‘Gram: @ajsoreelSSR Twitter: @shessoreelSSR Shownotes: https://shessoreel.com/episode/jenna-andrews/#ShesSoReel #AJsSoReel*This episode includes affiliate links for which I may make a small commission at no extra cost to you should you make a purchase. Read my disclaimer for further info.*

Today we have the fantastic Jenna Andrews! She's a singer, songwriter, and vocal producer whose credits include Benee's addictive "Supalonely" (currently still going strong worldwide with close to 500 million streams) and BTS' bonafide hit "Dynamite" and "Savage Love". Her career began as an artist herself signed to Island Def Jam, to writing for Drake + Majid Jordan and J-Lo and Noah Cyrus to name a few, to consulting for Barry Weiss' RECORDS label to her joint venture with Weiss, publishing company Twentyseven Music at Sony/ATV. Jenna recently launched The Green Room - a conversation series centered around mental health in the entertainment industry. In partnership with The Jed Foundation (suicide prevention for teens non-profit org) and She Is The Music (nonprofit organization increasing the number of women working in music), Jenna features an artist and a mental health professional in each 45-min discussion. Past guests have included Lennon Stella, Kiesza, Pixie Lott, Rebecca Black, and more. By connecting with artists and professionals in the field of mental and emotional health – Jenna’s mission is to help others feel a sense of relief through open and honest conversations with some of our favorite creators. Today we get a closer look at how Jenna got started in the music industry and her new podcast show, The Green Room! Big Sister Jenna coming our way y’all! Congrats on the Isolation award as well as the Grammy nom! Tune in to The Green Room on Youtube and when it comes out on podcast platforms such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more for season one next year!The Green Room 'Gram: @thegreenroomtalks Jenna Andrews 'Gram: @thejennandrewsJenna Andrews Twitter: @thejennaandrews Jenna Andrews' Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheJennaAndrewsJenna Andrews Website: http://www.thejennaandrews.com/SSR ‘Gram: @ajsoreelSSR Twitter: @shessoreelSSR Shownotes: https://shessoreel.com/episode/jenna-andrews/#ShesSoReel #AJsSoReel*This episode includes affiliate links for which I may make a small commission at no extra cost to you should you make a purchase. Read my disclaimer for further info.*

As an artist (Island Def Jam) and a songwriter (Sony/ATV) herself, Andrews is sensitive to the challenges that both up and coming and seasoned singers and writers face in music today, and she carries that knowledge with her in her work as a consultant for industry veteran Barry Weiss’ RECORDS label, as well as in her joint venture with Weiss, publishing company Twentyseven Music at Sony/ATV. The Calgary native has collaborated with some of the most renowned names in the market today, including heavy hitters such as Drake, Jennifer Lopez, Little Mix, Tori Kelly, Jessie J and Benee, as well as producers Noah 40 Shebib, Diplo, DJ Mustard, Max Martin, Illangelo and Stargate. Most recently, she has taken pop singer-songwriter Noah Cyrus under her wing, A&Ring her single “July” and writing the remix featuring Leon Bridges, which has garnered more than 160 million streams to date. She is also celebrating the stellar success of the hit she co-wrote with New Zealand-born singer/songwriter Benee, “Supalonely,” which has produced over 10 million TikTok videos and has massed over 125 million streams on Spotify alone. Today we’re talking about her passion and work towards the premise of mental health for Creative Professionals. Enjoy!  [Read more about our guest today HERE]   ***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***   In this episode Peter & The Jenna Andrews discuss: 1:10-  Intro and welcome Jenna!  Ref: Aliza Licht’s podcast Leave Your Mark 3:30-  So what prompted you to make mental health a passion? Ref: Emily Ratajkowski article in Harpers Bazzar   6:28:  Talk about what resources there are or more importantly, what resources there should be for artists/songwriters for anyone trying to pursue a career in The Music Industry. Ref: Jenna’s new podcast The Green Room. Ref:  The Jed Foundation  9:20-  Ref #SameHere started by my Eric Kussin (Hear Peter’s interview with Eric here 10:00-  On working to removing stigma, stereotypes, being honest, open and just not judging! 12:48-  What are you doing personally to take care of yourself? What are your sort of life rules that you put into place? 14:10-  Tell me how you reacted when you found out that your song “Tumblin Down” was going to be featured on Grey’s Anatomy?  Ref:  Imposter Syndrome 15:50-  And you were first discovered on MySpace?? 17:30-  A couple of lightning round questions. Where's your happy place? Where do you go when you just want to be happy? What place is the happiest, the most creative, most confident? 20:00-  Since you've kinda got the RomCom thing going on then answer this: Awesome or Creepy: “Love Actually” 21:30-  What is your most unhealthy favorite food? 22:40-  Ok, last question; what’s your favorite type of work out, if you work out? 23:23-  How can people find you? Where can people find you? Via her website: www.TheJennaAndrews.com and @TheJennaAndrews on Twitter  INSTA  Facebook  YouTube and  on Spotify Her podcast is The Green Room 23:40-  Thank you Jenna! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time! 24:10-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear! We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com   TRANSCRIPT:  Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thrilled that you're here. It is a gray, disgusting day here in New York city, but we are hopeful. Um, even though we are looking at a 3% rise in coronavirus, because most of you mother won't wear a mask and it's pissing me off, but whatever, it's still great to have you all here. I am glad you are here. I'm glad you're I hope you're all healthy and safe and that wearing your mask. Okay. We're talking to someone today. I I've talked to her now for about three minutes before I started. And I'm already in love. This person is awesome. I love everything about this person. Let me tell you she's so Jenna Andrews. Okay. If you are in the music industry, chances are, you've heard of this one. As artists with Island Def jam and a songwriter with Sony ATV. She sent him to the challenges of both up and coming as well as seasoned singers and writers and what they face in music today. She carries that knowledge with her as a consultant for industry veteran, Barry Weiss, his record label, as well as her joint venture with Weiss, a publishing company called 27 music and Sony ATV. Okay. She's worked with Drake, Jennifer Lopez, little mix, Tori Kelly, Jessie, J Benny producers, Noah 40, Diplo, DJ mustard. Max Martin. I am not cool enough doing half these people are, but I, I know that she's worked with Noah Cyrus, um, uh, eight and her single July and writing the remix featuring Leon bridges, which has garnered over 200 million streams to date. I always hesitate to put streams or numbers in my bio because I have to update them like every week, 210 million, 20 million. Anyway, I was actually going to say that I'm sure it's in there. Tell your publicist, update the stream. Okay. Anyway, she is very, very passionate about, about mental health and mental health for creative professionals, songwriters musicians. And that's why she's here today. I heard her on my wonderfully good friend Aliza Licht’s podcast and Leave Your Mark, which if you haven't subscribed to that one, I strongly recommend that Lisa is the shit and I am thrilled that Jenna has taken the time to be here to gentle. Welcome. Thank you so much for being on Faster Than Normal. Oh, of course. Oh my God. By the way, your intro is pretty spectacular. I was like, wow, this is awesome. You're really good at you're really good at that. I'm like, I'm like, yes, I am. I'm here for it. When people introduced me I'm always looking around like, who the hell are they talking about? It's really, but that's cool. Literally.  I love it. So how tell us about, so I want to focus most of the mental health, cause you know, we only facet normal is only 20 minutes, 30 minute interviews cause you know, 80 days. But um, I want to focus on the premise of mental health, you know, Whether you're an entrepreneur or you're a musician or any kind of creative or whatever you're doing in life. We tend to push mental health to the side. We still tend to push it to the back burner. We don't think about it as something, you know, we'll go to the gym right, five times a week and we'll do this dumb ass juice, detox, cleanses, whatever. But the one thing that we don't focus on anywhere near as much as we should, as society is taking care of our brain. And so what prompted you to make mental health a passion?  Um, it was funny because when, when you were, we were actually talking three minutes before, um, we started and you mentioned, um, your story and, and obviously how having ADHD, you know, back, you know, I guess what was it like 15, 20 years ago? It was totally something that wasn't, um, kind of okay to admit. So I actually have a similar experience because I, I feel like throughout high school people always were telling me, Oh yeah, she has a learning disability, dah, dah, dah, like all this kind of stuff. And I was so embarrassed about it. And, um, you know, at the time I didn't want to see anybody and it's it's um, yeah, it was like, it was shameful, which is so, which is so weird. I mean, that's one of the reasons, another reason is, you know, I was pretty badly bullied in high school as well. And, um, I went through an eating disorder and you know, I think a lot of young girls can relate and unfortunately way too many girls go through it. So it really made me feel one, you know, being a musician, it's been a way that I've been able to purge my emotions and feel better in a cathartic way, so I feel like in combination with that, and also just, you know, being able to be open through song. I was like, well, we do this every day in a song writing room. Like, why can't we open this up to the world for whoever's comfortable to talk about it, especially for the fans out there, you know, listening to these musicians or idolizing people that probably are going through similar things that they are, you know.  It makes a lot of sense what you say. You know, the interesting thing though, is that again, it's not necessarily something that tends to be focused on. Um, long-term, you know, I remember, uh, a lot of my friends I was telling you before, and then I went to LaGuardia, high school, Performing Arts, and a lot of the kids who I went to school with a good handful of them, you know, they started out their musical careers and they were working on it and they were, you know, sort of, um, pushing forward and pushing forward. And it was a constant grind that constant struggle and a constant, you know, series of rejections and being told no, and being told to lose weight or gain weight, or dye your hair or change this, or change that and get a boob job, whatever it was. And this was in the nineties. I, I, by the way, I I'm, I'm madly in love with you about the fact that you said it must be 15 to 20 years ago, that was in high school. It's closer to 30, 35 years ago, but bless your heart. Anyway, I appreciate that. Um, but you know, the, the, the, the concept of all of these rejections and all of these sort of, you're not good enough, or you'll be better if you do this. Right. takes its toll. There was an article written by, um, uh, Emily Ratajkowski, the, the, the model. Um, I don't know if you read it. It was in, I think it was in New Yorker. It was in Harpers. I don't remember where it was published last month or so where she talked about what she went through as a woman and as a model and how she was basically just treated like a product and, and, and she could never, she was never get everything she did, you know, was fixed this change that do this and. Talk about, um, in the music industry, talk about, you know, sort of what resources there are or more importantly, what resources there should be. Um, for artists forcing us we're songwriters for, for anyone trying to pursue that career. Who's constantly told no. I mean, we're told to just, you know, I'll just keep pushing forward. Same thing and sales, I guess, in the business, keep trying and keep going, keep going, but they never talk about sort of what people can do to, to fix themselves and to get the help they need.  Yeah. I'm actually in the process of trying to figure that out actually in, in doing this whole thing. I mean, really it's so it's so interesting because you know, starting.. I’ve started, uh, my own podcast called The Green Room about mental health. And obviously, you know, that, um, I, you know, in doing that, I think it was, it started as like, you know, an idea of being able to, you know, just be able to purge as I said, but then it really built into something that's, that's become just what you just asked is like, you know, being able to support people in the industry and outside as well. But like, I guess I'm working on that now. In fact, I spoke to, um, I spoke to somebody yesterday about potentially coming up with, you know, essentially making things like making some sort of program up or, you know, he writes policies. He was talking about ways that we can sort of come together and find ways that we can actually provide um, ways that people can or places people can go. Cause right now, you know, honestly, just speaking from the music community, it's like obviously writing songs is something that's therapeutic, right? That is, that is why people do that song is the feel better, right. In terms of actually solving some problems, like one thing I spoke to about my, to my friend or this, you know, this therapist yesterday is he basically was saying that he's trying to find a policy to like make, you know, have it be that people don't necessarily have to go to prison when they're, you know, abusing alcohol or drugs, because, you know, there has, there's such a deep rooted problem, like reason for that, for that. So it should be something should be there to help them rather than like, sort of punish them for it because it's really based on mental health. And a lot of times in music and entertainment, people really get. Um, get like a bad rap because a lot of times it will be like, Oh yeah, musicians are druggies or alcoholics or whatever, but it's really just because it's like, we're depressed in the same way everybody else is, it’s just that you're putting it out for the world to see. Right. So. Like going back again to your original question. That's I don't, I don't know that I have like the solution right at this very moment, but I guess what I'm hoping to do through The Green Room is to be able to, you know, talk about it. And obviously I partnered with The Jed Foundation, which is, um, a nonprofit for mental health. So we're giving all of that money back to the mental health, all the donations go back to mental health, which is the first step. Um, And yeah, and I guess there's just, you know, obviously, you know, providing hotlines and things for people to call, but I do think that there has to be a bigger. Being in that. So I feel like this is something it's a work in progress.  There's a, a nonprofit called #SameHere started by my friend Eric Kussin and the whole premise there is, is just to sort of, to legitimize the conversation around mental health. I think that if we, you know, if the conversation around mental health to legitimize, it would, it would solve, you know, we're not gonna solve all the problems, but that's a great start, right. Getting people to open up and talk about it and know that, you know, One of the reasons that I, I, I look at my ADHD and I know that it's a benefit. And, and the reason I do this podcast is so other people can learn that and not be stigmatized for it.  You know what, that's actually a really, exactly what you just said is a hundred percent what I am hoping to do through what I'm trying to promote in doing The Green Room and also just making mental health, such a, um, I guess an okay thing to talk about it with, within the music community, because I think. By coming out and saying, Hey, listen, I had an eating disorder and, and saying, Hey, listen, I was bullied in high school. Hey, I drink too much. Or just stuff like that where it's like, Hey, listen, not everybody can admit that. Right. But I feel like when you can, it helps you get through it because you're like, okay, you you're going through it, so you're not alone. And I think that's really. That's like the mantra is like, people don't want to feel alone.  One of the things that I've noticed in my, in my spare time was I'm a licensed skydiver. I jumped out of airplanes for fun and yeah. Okay. Uh, we call it, FEMURing in, bring in, when someone lands has a hard landing, 90% of time, they land on their femur and they break their femur. Right. Which is essentially breaking their leg. It hurts like hell and, um, you know, they get titanium putting in, they get like rods in my leg or whatever, I think. There's actually, they're actually t-shirts that people sell that says, you know, I'm 90% metal or titanium or whatever we immortalize and embrace the concept. Oh yeah. I broke my leg. Look at how strong I am, you know, but we don't do that for mental health, you know? And, and I think that's really, what has to change is the premise that I'm not saying we need to go around and say, yes, I'm an alcoholic, but, but not to be. Um, not to be judged. That's not to look at it as a sign of weakness. Right. We break our leg. We don't look at someone with a broken leg. Hi, you fucked up. Look at you. Ha you broke it. You know, why do we still have that same stigma around mental health? And I think that is what a lot of you know, is sort of starting to sort of gain traction and become a movement where it's not stigmatized.  A hundred percent. And by the way, you're so right about that. It's like people are allowed to make mistakes and it's not to say that you should say alcoholism is the way to live. It's not, it's not promoting that. And that's only one example of many different types of things. But I guess that I found that interesting in, in, in my conversation yesterday, because I was like, okay, yeah. I mean, that is a serious stigma, but you have to realize what, what, what, it's, what extend that, you know what I mean? Like why does that person have the addiction that they have. And, and, and I think that, um, the important thing is exactly what you said as well is just not judging somebody. And I think, um, you know, for example, I'll give you another example. A couple of weeks ago, I did a show, um, I talk with Teagan and Sarah and we talk about obviously, you know, you know, the gay community and coming out and what that looks like? And there's so much judgment in that too. Like even a lot of what they talked about is, you know, the stigma of like, Hey, if you know, even in the gay and lesbian community, it's like, if you don't look like you're gay and even the let's be in community, judge, you. You know what I mean? It's like, how crazy is that? I mean, I'm just thinking there's, it's such a, a broad, um, subject, I think for judgment all across the board on a lot of different levels.  What are you doing personally to take care of yourself? What are your sort of life rules that you put into place?  Um, exactly this, I really find the most healing thing for me is the talk about it and I think, um, therapy of course. Um, but I find that it's beyond just going to a normal therapy session. I find that just talking about it with friends or, you know, Instead of repressing feelings, just putting it out there. I find that as much as open as I am, the better I feel. Do you know what I mean? Cause if I'm going through something, I feel that if I, what I learned over my life is that when I. When I sort of like pretended it didn't exist or like, you know, just kind of like put it, put it away for now. I was always way more depressed. And I think that talking about it is just so healing for me. So I'm constantly trying to talk and challenge myself to get better, I guess. Um, yeah.  Okay. Let's uh, let's move, move to a fun topic um, as well, we'll come back. We'll circle, we'll circle back to this at the end, but I, I gotta ask you a couple of questions and, you know, forgive me for this. Um, tell me how I'm hoping for a great story here. Tell me what happened or how you found out and how you reacted when you discovered, when you found out- when, I guess when your agent, whoever called you and said, Hey, “Tumblin Down” is going to be on Gray’s Anatomy? Oh, well, it's so funny. I, I, that was, um, like that was so many years ago now. Yeah, actually it might've been like 2000. Yeah. Something like that. 2011. Um, you know, I mean, obviously I thought it was really exciting. Um, but it's, it's. You know, as an artist, this is another thing to say is like your, your, so you have this like, That nothing's ever good enough.  Oh my God. Imposter syndrome. There we go. I was at imposter syndrome shows up in every single episode, every single guest talks about it. So congratulations for continuing for continuing the streak. We're good. We're I think we're 202 for 202.  Haha! Awesome! I’m glad. Okay. This is good. I mean, we're, we're, we're artists out here, you know? Um, but it's a good sign. It means that you really, you know, I think the best artists and no ones that, you know, have the most pain and have. You know, I have something to say in a story to share, to share with people, um, all feel these ways, because I think that it's impossible to be satisfied and make good art, you know, think about it. It's like if you, if you fall into a place that's complacent, you feel like you've arrived, then there's like, like you don't want to, how could you still want to create? You know, so I guess that. That's how it feels. It's just like, okay, cool. That's good. What's the next thing. And it's not even like, not being grateful. Right? Of course it's grateful, but it's just like, it's just the nature of the beast.  Yeah. Now, if, if I'm, if I remember correctly, you were discovered, and this is, this is gonna, you know, as someone who grew up in the eighties with the era and the era of dial up modems in America, online, this continues to blow my mind, you were discovered on MySpace weren't you.  Yes. And I it's so funny now because my face is, so it's such a dinosaur now, too. So it's like, it's so odd to think about because really my space was the first social network, I guess that really started this whole trend. Right. So, but no, I was exactly that. So I just kind of, I put up a song, um, For my parents basically than I, so I had moved out of my house, um, right from high school and, um, I, you know, didn't have any money and I really just wanted, had a lot of pride that I wanted to show that I could do it on my own and all these things. So I really wanted that. I like didn't have that to get back to where I was living, which was like, you know, an hour outside of the city. So I slept in my car by the beach and I wrote this song for my parents, um, being, obviously couldn't buy them a Christmas gift. And, um, and then I ended up just being like, Hey, cool, it's an acoustic song. Like I really like it. Let's just throw it on MySpace. And that was it. And I've learned now through my career as those things that happened the one, the times that you really just think. Absolutely not the times that you're just like, you know, if you're going in, you know, 350 days of the year being like I'm working today, I'm going to write a hit, I’m going to do this, or I'm going to do that. The other, you know, 10 days are the days that you'll actually accomplish something that you're not thinking about anything. It's like, those are always the times that you actually achieve the best things is when you're doing it for an authentic reason beyond any sort of specific like superficial goal. From my experience. Couple of questions, uh, sort of, sort of, um, uh, lightning round questions. Where's your happy place? Where do you go when you just want to be happy? What, what place the happiest, the most creative, the most, uh, uh, carefree and confident.  Well, okay. There's two that you just asked what makes me the happiest and what makes me the most creative are definitely two different things right now. Oh my God. You're gonna, you're gonna, literally, I don't, I'm scared to say this, but as a person that just says I have to be vulnerable and say everything, I feel I have to do it, but I freaking love the stupidest romcoms, like Hallmark movies. They make me. Like this time of the year literally makes me so happy. You guys don't understand. Like, I actually like have an obsession with Hallmark movies. Like I, like, after the day writing, I like look forward to being like, Oh my God, the Hallmark channel. And I'm like so excited. Um, and, but you're asking me during these, this December months, so this is definitely my happy times, right? Yeah. Okay. And what about most creative?  Most creative is. Um, like it's, it's either being like inspired looking out the window right now. It's like either being inspired by like, you know, what, something around you like where it's like, I can't even define it necessarily. It's like, it's, I feel like I get the most creative when I'm either like, so inspired by a thought or a melody or just something visual, I guess I'm a really visual person too. So I feel like, um, that really captivates me. So I need to feel like I, if I, if I all of a sudden see something or hear something, like if you said something right now, Like often the best songs are like, you could say it and I'm like, Oh my God, it's the best content I've ever heard. And that's so inspiring to me, you know, I was just like in conversation, having like the song, just write itself, and that's what a song is.  So to follow up on the first point of your Hallmark movies, I saw a, um, an Instagram ad, I was at a certain Instagram and the other day that showed a person wearing socks. And the socks on the soles of the socks said, “if you can read this don't bother me cause I'm watching Hallmark movies”. So I'll have to get you up to get you a pair.  OMG, Yeah. I'm actually dying right now. You have to! I will send you a pair. Yes. I'll get your address from your, from your, uh, from your publicist.  Okay, so here's the same question. Since you've got the romcom thing going on, then answer this’  Awesome or Creepy: “Love Actually”.  Awesome! Thank you! Thank you! There's a, there's a growing movement that says it's creepy and like stalkery and all that I'm like, come on. It's Love Actually.  Oh my gosh. How many times have you watched that movie? Hundreds. Hundreds. Okay. Actually I'm like, I'm like, shit. I bought that movie is iconic. It's wonderful. What's creepy is the little boy chasing the girl. I mean, that's like, no, that's awesome. I think the creepy part is the guy stocking the, his best friend's wife. No, it's not, the science is like that, that scene where it's like, Oh, I get goosebumps thinking about it.  I, I remember I, my, my ex wife, I'm still very good friends with, we were watching the movie and I was listening to the song. Um, Anywhere You Go, right? [[“Wherever You Will Go” by The Calling]] Anyway, you follow you. And, um, uh, No, no. Wherever you may go wherever you, um, the one that's playing in the bar when he goes to America and he meets the girls. Right. And I'm listening to it. I love it. So it's a great running song. And she says to me, my, my ex says to me, one day, she goes: ‘You just like that song because he ends up having a threesome’ That is such a, like, I, I, yeah, I could see that. I could see her saying that, but that's not why come on! That song.  That's not entirely why. Okay. Couple more, couple more questions. Um, favorite, uh, or worst, I should say, um, most unhealthy favorite food.  Ooh, what was that healthy, favorite food? I rarely eat healthy. Like, I don't even know if I, um, Oh, I don't even like that, like bad food. Like that's the truth. I mean, I'm actually being serious. Like, I mean, my cheat is like tomato, basil rice cakes, which I'm like obsessed with. And I know I sound insane. I know, but like, I'm not like a pizza, French fry, like person. I don't even know that that would be like my choice. I’m really glad that I live in the other end of the country because just knowing that we'd never ever date- oh my God. I don't like pizza? What the hell is wrong with you?! Rice cakes are, are literally an affront to God. Okay. Whatever, they're an affront to God.  Can I just say I do like pizza, but interesting, but I, but I just feel like. It's not like my go-to. Okay, fine. I put, I'll put cheese on a tomato basil rice cake and you're when we, when we, when we hang out, you're going to have it and it's going to change your life because it's so good.  Only if I can I take you- I'll take you to Claudio's pizzeria on 10th and 43rd street. Oh, okay. Deal? Deal. Last question. Tell us, do you tell us about what you work out? Do you work out? What's your favorite one?  Pilates. I love Pilates. That's an easy one. Yeah. It's just like, it's so. Um, I feel like one it's like so refreshing to do right in the morning. Cause it's like, it's like, obviously you get all like stretching and you can like get all your muscles working. But it's also like a lot of like core strength, especially when you do it without, um, the reformer, like, cause we've been doing Pilates like this whole. You're just with, um, an instructor on zoom, which has been awesome. And it's like, you know, like I don't have a reformer, so it's just a lot of core strength, like weights and it's just like, you're kind of like working everything and it just, I love it. I just think it checks all the boxes for me.  Where can people find you? Via her website: www.TheJennaAndrews.com and @TheJennaAndrews on Twitter  INSTA  Facebook  YouTube and  on Spotify Her podcast is The Green Room Jenna Andrews. It's everywhere. You know, all my socials are the same, so that's when they can find me. And I'm behind the screen on behind the green wall. Well, I was gonna say behind the, is the rest of your life, right? Don't take it down. And that's where the that's where the wizard hangs out. Jenna Andrews, thank you so much for being on Faster Than Normal. I truly appreciate your time. This was, this was phenomenal. I hope to have you back.  Of course, thank you so much for having me!  Guys, thanks for listening as always, if you like what you hear drops review, uh, stay safe, stay healthy. It is crazy out there and it looks like it's only gonna get worse. So until it gets better, I'm reminding you to wear the mask. Please wear the mask and we, if you don't do it for yourself, if you don't care for yourself, do it for someone you love and you should love yourself anyway, because we're the only ones we got. We'll talk to you guys next week on another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thank you so much for listening. Take care of yourselves. Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Discuss some of the weeks current events including UFC251, Huawei and Barry Weiss

Wayfair, Barry Weiss, Nick Cannon, COVID cops, and the devaluation of art all are on the table of discussion this week. DELETE THE INTERNET 2020.

Jenna Andrews is a singer, songwriter, and executive producer who has written and collaborated with artists including Drake, Dua Lipa, Lily Allen, Jessie J, Diplo, and Jennifer Lopez.Jenna began songwriting at age 14 and dropped out of college after 6 months to pursue her music career. She moved to Vancouver and was discovered soon after by famed manager Chris Smith (Alessia Cara, Nelly Furtado), who garnered a deal for Jenna at Island Def Jam.Currently, Jenna is an exclusive A&R consultant for the RECORDS label, founded by industry veteran Barry Weiss. She recently partnered with Weiss to launch TwentySeven Music Publishing in a joint venture with Sony/ATV. Jenna boasts an impressive creative roster at RECORDS, lending her music industry knowledge and creative expertise to rising artists like Noah Cyrus and Lennon Stella.-------------------------------------------Mind of a Mentor is produced by Ossa, a women's podcast network on a mission to increase the visibility, influence and earning power of women in the podcast industry.Are you a woman in podcasting? Apply to join Ossa and get free access to podcast monetization opportunities with our in-house ad booking service. We also offer our members a community of women in podcasting, promotional opportunities, exclusive offers, and resources for podcast growth and development. To apply or for more information, visit joinossa.com.Is your business interested in podcast advertising opportunities? On Ossa's proprietary ad booking platform, you can find podcasts that fit your criteria and budget in just a few clicks. Ossa is uniquely positioned to help you reach the world's most powerful consumers: women. Visit joinossa.com to get started.For lots of great podcasting content, head to ossacollective.com.You can find more information on the guest featured in this episode and on every episode of Mind of a Mentor on ossacollective.com.Mind of a Mentor is hosted by Marla Isackson, Founder & CEO of Ossa. Connect with Marla on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2zq3W59Questions? Email support@ossacollective.com.Follow Ossa on Social Media:Facebook: @ossacollectivenetwork / https://bit.ly/2NEf9roInstagram: @ossacollective / https://bit.ly/30HozpETwitter: @ossacollective / https://bit.ly/34bradNLinkedIn: @ossa-collective / https://bit.ly/2ZGBACNEnjoying Mind of a Mentor? Please rate & review our show! https://apple.co/2Knky3wMind of a Mentor is an Ossa original show hosted by Marla Isackson, Founder and CEO of Ossa Collective women's podcast network. For more information about Ossa, visit: https://ossacollective.com/Follow Ossa on Socials- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ossaforpodcasters/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ossa-collective/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ossacollectivenetwork

Jenna Andrews is a singer, songwriter, and executive producer who has written and collaborated with artists including Drake, Dua Lipa, Lily Allen, Jessie J, Diplo, and Jennifer Lopez. Jenna began songwriting at age 14 and dropped out of college after 6 months to pursue her music career. She moved to Vancouver and was discovered soon after by famed manager Chris Smith (Alessia Cara, Nelly Furtado), who garnered a deal for Jenna at Island Def Jam. Currently, Jenna is an exclusive A&R consultant for the RECORDS label, founded by industry veteran Barry Weiss. She recently partnered with Weiss to launch TwentySeven Music Publishing in a joint venture with Sony/ATV. Jenna boasts an impressive creative roster at RECORDS, lending her music industry knowledge and creative expertise to rising artists like Noah Cyrus and Lennon Stella. ------------------------------------------- Mind of a Mentor is produced by Ossa, a women’s podcast network on a mission to increase the visibility, influence and earning power of women in the podcast industry. Are you a woman in podcasting? Apply to join Ossa and get free access to podcast monetization opportunities with our in-house ad booking service. We also offer our members a community of women in podcasting, promotional opportunities, exclusive offers, and resources for podcast growth and development. To apply or for more information, visit joinossa.com. Is your business interested in podcast advertising opportunities? On Ossa's proprietary ad booking platform, you can find podcasts that fit your criteria and budget in just a few clicks. Ossa is uniquely positioned to help you reach the world's most powerful consumers: women. Visit joinossa.com to get started. For lots of great podcasting content, head to ossacollective.com. You can find more information on the guest featured in this episode and on every episode of Mind of a Mentor on ossacollective.com. Mind of a Mentor is hosted by Marla Isackson, Founder & CEO of Ossa. Connect with Marla on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2zq3W59 Questions? Email support@ossacollective.com. Follow Ossa on Social Media: Facebook: @ossacollectivenetwork / https://bit.ly/2NEf9ro Instagram: @ossacollective / https://bit.ly/30HozpE Twitter: @ossacollective / https://bit.ly/34bradN LinkedIn: @ossa-collective / https://bit.ly/2ZGBACN Enjoying Mind of a Mentor? Please rate & review our show! https://apple.co/2Knky3w

Welcome to Episode 173 On this week's episode we do a little chatting with the Beast from the Near-East, The Puffed-up Chest from the Midwest, The Fair Dame with the Wild Mane that's Hard to Tame, The female Charles Bronson from Wisconsin - Michelle Mankiewicz. We dive into her preparation for the upcoming WIR's Top 10 Bikes drag racing series at Wisconsin International Raceway. She's also been hitting the dirt, and hints at some other avenues that she might explore this year. On top of being voted Wisconsin's Strongest Woman, Michelle is also no slouch in the kitchen, taking several regional titles with her prize-winning pies and chilis. She's also an educator and a horse whisperer. The last one might be false. Law Tigers, America's Motorcycle Attorneys, have given Creative Riding 4 tickets to this year's AFT Sacramento Mile on May 18th. They are the title sponsor for this event, as well the AFT Arizona TT. If you'd like a chance to win the tickets, listen for half of the "winning phrase" and then listen to Motorcycles & Misfits on Monday for the second half. E-mail the phrase to creativeridingpodcast@gmail.com to be entered into a drawing for a pair of tickets! Good luck! William has a great event happening this Sunday in the Philly area! Thanks for the heads up buddy! http://www.dvnr.org/gathering/2019_26th_flyer.pdf Milwaukee Harley & Milwaukee Rivets ride for International Female Ride Day on May 4th preregistration: b.eastin@MilwaukeeMotorcycleCo.com We had the chance to talk to Al Jesse from MotoManufacturing.com at IMS Long Beach last year. His MirrorLok product really impressed me with the quality and functionality of the device. Now they are back with MotoDock - a multi-purpose ball-mount that comes in 3 sizes, and is compatible with Ram Mounts, Cameras, popular aftermarket mirrors and more! Take a peek for yourself: https://motomanufacturing.com/moto-dock/ It's fair to say that many celebrities have gotten into motorcycles (or probably were into motorcycles) and have been spotted in movies or tabloids ripping around various cities across the globe. Since it's spring time and the summer blockbusters are just around the corner, I asked Jae and Wiggins what celebrity they would most like to ride with. In light of this week's events, we are also wishing local celebrities Jamie Robinson and Barry Weiss a full and speedy recovery after their accident in Los Feliz. With the Spring Riding Season having finally arrived for all but those on the Weddell Ice Shelf, it's time to start planning those moto trips and rides. Junkster asks Jae and Chris where they would most like to take their celebrity riding. Are you even worth it? Not you, listener. Your motorcycle. Jae did a study based on average repair and maintenance costs of her truck vs 2 motorcycles. Are motorbikes actually worth the hassle per mile vs a cage? Find out. The Texas 1/2 mile wrapped up over the weekend, and we have a little race report. This is the last call for Pine Wood Derby Cars for next weekend's The Californian Moto Show!!! For tickets to the Californian happening next weekend, please follow this link: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-californian-tickets-55648028752 The Quail Lodge hosts one of California's most prestigious gatherings of Vintage and Classic Motorcycles. For Tickets to the Quail Motorcycle Gathering at the Quail Lodge, please follow this link: http://peninsula.ticketmob.com/event.cfm?id=176530

Earl Stevens. Son argot vicelard, théâtral et ses mots inventés. Son écriture verbeuse aux tournures étranges et pleine de métaphores. Son flow qui joue avec le tempo, comme en improvisation permanente, laissant filer la prod pour mieux la rattraper. Mythique Earl Stevens, E-40, qui fête cette année ses 50 ans et qui prouve par là même qu’il est possible de bien vieillir dans le rap. L’occasion de se replonger dans “In a major way”, son premier album studio sorti en 1995. Un album sans concession, une heure de mob music, de groove lent, de funk ralentie, cousine sombre du G-funk. Un pied de nez aux majors jusque dans son titre, affirmation de l’indépendance de l’artiste après un deal parfait avec Jive Records, qui lui permet de sortir de Californie pour vendre partout au USA, sans renier la culture de la Bay Area. Animé par Mehdi Maïzi avec Nicolas PellionRÉFÉRENCES CITÉES DANS L’ÉMISSIONAlkapote, Pierre-Yves Bocquet (aka Pierre Evil), San Antonio, Michel Audiard, Barry Weiss, Jive Records, Pens & Pixels, Snoop Dogg, Gucci Mane. CRÉDITSEnregistré le 26 octobre 2017 au Bar à Bulles (4bis Cité Véron, Paris 11ème). Production : Binge Audio. Direction de production : Joël Ronez. Chargée de production et d’édition : Camille Regache. Direction générale : Gabrielle Boeri-Charles. Moyens techniques : Binge Audio. Réalisation : Brice Tahar. Générique : extrait de "Tyra Banks" de Nodey (Atrahasis EP) par Nodey. NoFun est une production du réseau Binge Audio www.binge.audio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The guys from Shift and Steer go out to Irwindale Speedway for the Mooneyes Xmas Party Show and Drags. They were down one man as Aaron Hagar was snowed in up in Lake Tahoe, but Brad Fanshaw, Matt D'Andria and Pete Chapouris made the best of it! At the show they grabbed Barry Weiss from Storage Wars, Perry Barndt stuntman - Producer and Car Chasers star along with Chico Kodama from Mooneyes and KC Marrs of Marrs Cycles up to the microphones.

It's episode 44 of Man Seeks Adventure and Brad Fanshaw, Dave Marek and Heather Storm attend the RM/Sotheby's Auctions America collector car sale at the Barker Hanger in Santa Monica, CA. Brad grabs his friend Barry Weiss the star of the Storage Wars TV show, collector ad traveler. Later in the show Matt D'Andria the co-host of Shift and Steer, another podcast from bonspeedMedia joins Heather and Brad for a chat. Everything is manic and fueled by the Drink of the Day, a strong Manhattan named "Liquid Courage". VISIT US: www.ManSeeksAdventure.com

The guys from Shift and Steer go out to Irwindale Speedway for the Mooneyes X-Mas Party Show and Drags. They were down one man as Aaron Hagar was snowed in up in Lake Tahoe, but Brad Fanshaw, Matt D'Andria and Pete Chapouris made the best of it!At the show they grabbed Barry Weiss from Storage Wars, Perry Barndt stuntman - Producer and Car Chasers star along with Chico Kodama from Mooneye and and KC Marrs up to the microphones.It's a party for sure and they also have a holiday gift of great video that will be posted later!

One of the stars of the hit show "Storage Wars", Barry Weiss has got a news mission - find unusual objects for unusual collectors. "Barry'd Treasure" is currently airing on A & E, which chronicles Weiss's cross-country odyssey and features some of his cool friends and interesting people along the way.We will talk to Weiss about his passion for finding hidden treasure and the man behind the hunter.  

One of the stars of the hit show "Storage Wars", Barry Weiss has got a news mission - find unusual objects for unusual collectors. "Barry'd Treasure" is currently airing on A & E, which chronicles Weiss's cross-country odyssey and features some of his cool friends and interesting people along the way.We will talk to Weiss about his passion for finding hidden treasure and the man behind the hunter.  

Hey- this is Ray. Glenn writes the episode descriptions (which means he relistens to the podcast after we're done, and takes down all the references, and researches all the links and videos, which is MUCH harder than the technical stuff I do. Bless his insomniac heart), but I had to start with this. This episode was a TON of fun to do. We were in a great groove, and throwing in our wives for quick cameos (Glenn's married to Jenn, and I'm married to CL) on this one just made it more fun. We really hope you like this one, and we thank you for all the support. Take it away, Glenn! This week's podcast includes discussion of the following: Star Blazers / Battle of the Planets / The Bride / Pineland Players / Into the Woods / show discount / war crimes / Disney franchises / never seen Star Wars / the royal baby / Daym Drops / Simpsons Tapped Out / freemium games / Borderlands 2 / shoutouts / Teena Marie / fDeluxe, The Time and Sinead O'Connor / Steve Ditko / Shade, the Changing Man / long distance relationships / phone caller from the past / stripping TV / Breaking Bad / most complex TV character / Barry Weiss of Storage Wars / The Shadow / The Green Hornet / Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 / Links: TwoMorrows Publishing The Podcast Companion Pineland Players Into the Woods Ray's Twitter Glenn's Twitter Riley Cooper Daym Drops Best Daym Takeout The Dark Future of Freemium Games fDeluxe Creepy Presents Steve Ditko Shade, The Changing Man Best Written Character in TV History? The Shadow Fan's Podcast by Barry Reese The Hornet's Nest The Flash-Back Podcast Videos: Star Blazers Theme Space Battleship Yamato Trailer Daym Drops reviews Five Guys "Lovergirl" by Teena Marie "Running Up That Hill" by Kate Bush "Justice League - The Flashpoint Paradox" Trailer Pinky and the Brain: "Yes, Always" The Green Hornet TV intro 1967

MONIQUE BAINES has spent her life listening to and following the love of her life, not unlike most women. As a vocalist and well-versed musician (she also plays the flute, piano, & drums), what is most unique about Monique is her sound. Professional musicians have tagged her as a modern day Ella Fitzgerald, with a vocal prowess that ranges from classical to blues, and jazz to pop. Her voice is highly versatile, yet soothing. Monique’s musical background built up from solo choir performances, to first place wins at talent contests and New York City showcases, to features on prominent mix tapes. All of which has led her to work with industry legends such as Steve Rifkind, Sylvia Rhone, & Akon. Along the way she honed in on her one-of-a-kind style with production team Roc Life and world renowned production team Full Force. Monique signed to a legendary production team, Full Force, as the resident R&B diva in a three-person group. The group’s R&B/funk/hip-hop sound earned them label showcases in front of many record execs, including the legendary Antonio “L.A.” Reid, Larry Jackson, and Barry Weiss. After listening to the opinions of her professional colleagues and friends, Monique decided it was best to remain a solo artist. After working as the executive and marketing assistant at a small yet well branded label, Monique is not only armed with her extraordinary talent, but with the industry savvy needed to fill a void in the ever-evolving music scene. For more info: http://www.indiereviewcd.com https://twitter.com/IndieRevue https://www.instagram.com/indie.review https://www.facebook.com/indie.review --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/indie-review/support

MONIQUE BAINES has spent her life listening to and following the love of her life, not unlike most women. As a vocalist and well-versed musician (she also plays the flute, piano, & drums), what is most unique about Monique is her sound. Professional musicians have tagged her as a modern day Ella Fitzgerald, with a vocal prowess that ranges from classical to blues, and jazz to pop. Her voice is highly versatile, yet soothing. Monique's musical background built up from solo choir performances, to first place wins at talent contests and New York City showcases, to features on prominent mix tapes. All of which has led her to work with industry legends such as Steve Rifkind, Sylvia Rhone, & Akon. Along the way she honed in on her one-of-a-kind style with production team Roc Life and world renowned production team Full Force. Monique signed to a legendary production team, Full Force, as the resident R&B diva in a three-person group. The group's R&B/funk/hip-hop sound earned them label showcases in front of many record execs, including the legendary Antonio “L.A.” Reid, Larry Jackson, and Barry Weiss. After listening to the opinions of her professional colleagues and friends, Monique decided it was best to remain a solo artist. After working as the executive and marketing assistant at a small yet well branded label, Monique is not only armed with her extraordinary talent, but with the industry savvy needed to fill a void in the ever-evolving music scene.