Podcasts about Filipino

Episode 376: HICKIES + DRYHUMPS "The SoCal Party That Became a Filipino Movement" Feat. Esentrik This episode of Road Podcast features @JulzDelaPena and @Esentrik breaking down how real DJ careers evolve, from Julz getting into weddings and understanding presentation (02:05). The conversation touches on the reality of DJ promo culture, online bravado, and mentorship (07:03). The crew then speaks on DJ friendships, leaving retail to focus on parties, and changing economics (10:10). Julz revisits the roots of @HickiesAndDryhumps, why the party originally felt like a house party, and how moments like @MilesMedina and @JustBlaze pulling up after the Goldie Awards shaped its growth (25:07), before diving into Filipino classics and the quiet influence of Filipino DJs in nightlife (29:01). The crew then talks about San Diego's venues, DJ unity, and why the city's crowds feel more receptive and fun than Hollywood (47:59). Esentrik explains his showcase style of DJing and crowd reading (57:01). The episode closes with viral Seafood City DJ pop-ups (1:15:01), shrinking DJ rates, and promotion strategies (1:25:01). Try Beatsource for free: btsrc.dj/4jCkT1p Join DJcity for only $10: bit.ly/3EeCjAX

COPYRIGHT NDR Live, off-air, two-hour recording of the special annual Gruss an Bord program from German broadcaster NDR, Norddeutscher Rundfunk, on 24 December 2025. Gruss an Bord features music and greetings to and from mariners around the world. The Christmas greetings were recorded at an event in Hamburg.Relatives and friends had the opportunity to wish their loved ones at sea a happy holiday and a happy new year. The Hamburg event was recorded on the third Sunday of Advent, 14 December, in the Duckdalben International Seamen's Club and was hosted by Susanne Stichler. The program included a number of special guests including Bishop Kirsten Fehrs; Hamburg's Senator for Economic Affairs, Melanie Leonhard; the Federal Government's Maritime Coordinator, Christoph Ploß; and Vice Admiral Axel Deertz. Music was provided by the folk music duo of Frank Grischek and Ralf Lübke. The broadcast was primarily in German, however there were several minutes in English when Filipino seamen were interviewed and some of the songs had English lyrics.In addition to being carried on the NDR Info and NDR Info Spezial networks, the broadcast was transmitted around the world on shortwave using transmitters at Nauen, Germany; Issoudun, France; Tashkent, Uzbekistan; and Okeechobee, Florida, U.S.A.; and was organized by Media Broadcast.The scheduled frequencies (kHz) were: 6030 (via Issoudun) for the Northeast Atlantic, 6080 (via Tashkent) for Europe, 9635 (via Nauen) for the Indian Ocean, 11650 (via Issoudun) for the Atlantic and Indian Oceans, 13830 (via Nauen) for the Southern Atlantic, and 15770 (via Okeechobee) for the Northwest AtlanticMonitors reported that the program did not air on 9635 or 11650 kHz.This recording was made in Hanwell (just outside Fredericton), New Brunswick, Canada. It is of the transmission on the frequency of 15770 kHz for the full two hours.The recording was made primarily using a Belka-DX receiver in pseudo-synchronous (AM2) mode with a bandwidth of 50 Hz - 2.7 kHz outdoors with a Tecsun AN-03L 7-metre wire antenna Reception was quite good for the most part with a bit of fading at times. But that receiver was initially tuned to 13830 kHz with a weaker signal. However, 15770 kHz was being recorded simultaneously with a KiwiSDR 2 software-defined radio receiver in narrow AM (AMN) mode with noise cancelling and with a W6LVP indoor magnetic loop antenna. So, the recording here has about a 4-1/2-minute splice from the KiwiSDR receiver at the beginning with the remainder of the recording from the Belka-DX receiver. A few seconds of the end of the program are missing as WRMI cut over to other programming before the complete end of the program.

The Bay Area is home to one of the most concentrated Filipino communities in the nation. Their history in the Bay Area goes back more than 100 years, but many of the neighborhoods they established, like San Francisco's “Manila Town” have since been torn down and replaced - the result of urban renewal and property development in the late 1970's.But their legacy and cultural impact lives on today. The South of Market neighborhood of San Francisco was formally recognized as a historically Filipino district back in 2016. It's home to many Filipino businesses. And a new shop is now bringing a long time Filipino tradition to the neighborhood. KALW reporter Viviana Vivas meets one of the artists there, who is using ink and needles to make a mark on people's bodies, and in the neighborhood.

Tattooing is a form of storytelling. Today, an artist honors his lineage by integrating Filipino traditions into his contemporary practice. Then, using dance to tell the story of Filipino migration to the Bay Area. And, we sing a little karaoke.

China's embassy in Manila has launched an unprecedented public campaign against Philippine government officials. In this episode, Philippine Coast Guard Commodore Jay Tarriela - Beijing's primary target - explains what's at stake when foreign embassies publicly threaten democratic voices.The controversy began when Tarriela posted images from a student presentation featuring AI-generated caricatures of Xi Jinping. China's embassy called it “attacking and smearing Chinese leaders” and a “serious violation of China's political dignity.” Beijing summoned the Philippine ambassador and demanded Tarriela “pay the price.” Tarriela refused to apologize, receiving backing from Philippine officials and strong public support - 94% of Filipinos support transparency efforts in the West Philippine Sea.Tarriela identifies three reasons behind Beijing's escalation: the Philippines chairs ASEAN in 2026 and transparency during regional meetings could expose Chinese actions to neighboring countries; China may want to influence the 2028 Philippine election by reducing focus on West Philippine Sea issues; and transparency prevents China from executing operations like illegal reclamation without immediate international scrutiny.He describes coordination between the Chinese embassy and online accounts that amplify Beijing's messaging with identical talking points - evidence of organized information operations. Tarriela also addresses allegations that our co-host, the SeaLight Foundation's Ray Powell, is a U.S. agent providing him with money and instructions, while explaining why Powell's documentation of Chinese activities across Southeast Asia challenges Beijing's narrative.Since Tarriela's last podcast appearance in May 2024, Chinese Coast Guard vessels have moved closer to Philippine shores, now operating near Pangasinan, Ilocos, Mindoro, and Bataan. Meanwhile, transparency efforts have achieved measurable results: Filipino awareness of West Philippine Sea issues has grown significantly, and international embassies that previously avoided naming China now publicly identify Chinese actions.Tarriela makes the case for deploying U.S. Coast Guard vessels rather than Navy warships to counter China's gray-zone tactics, and explains why he continues speaking out despite personal attacks: “Standing up for our rights is the obligation of everybody. We owe this to our national heroes and to the next generation.”In the post-interview banter, Ray and Jim discuss how the Chinese embassy has also targeted Ray personally for SeaLight's investigation into Chinese influence over Mandarin-language media outlets in the Philippines. They explore parallels with Australia's experience combating similar influence operations and debate how democracies can balance freedom of the press with transparency about foreign funding and direction of media organizations.

We are back with another entry in The Searchers catalog. Get ready for an episode that isn't only oh so brand new, but covers a film that's oh so rare! (It is literally our most obscure review ever.) One of our frequent guests, Odie Arbuckle, joins us again with quite the pick — a Filipino action film from 1997. Full of melodrama as is usual for Filipino cinema and action that breathes the essence of Hong Kong nitrocellulose. Hear us gab a lil' about this film, a lil' about Filipino cinema in general, and a lil' about other films as we continue broadening our horizons! Join us! We don't want to leave you alone as we bask in the sands of this new frontier! Youtube link to the movie, HERE.  Remember to send us your mailbags at thesearcherspodcast@gmail.com! Hope y'all enjoy this episode!  Next episode is back to our bread and butter--full western mode. We are excited for this one so stay tuned.  Please rate us a 5/5 on Apple, Spotify, or Podbean, and review us on Apple.  Our episode catalogue: https://searchersfilmpodcast.podbean.com/

China's Coast Guard has transferred 17 rescued Filipino crew members to the Philippines after a cargo ship capsized near Huangyan Dao Island in the South China Sea.

Batyah had everything in her life, a close family, a successful career, and a deep connection to Christianity. Then one day, her pastor stood before the congregation and admitted that everything he had been preaching was false. In that moment, her entire world collapsed. But even in the confusion, she felt certain that God was real. She just needed to find the truth.Her search led her to explore Judaism. It meant walking away from her career and leaving her family behind as she traveled from the Philippines to Israel. She took on a cleaning job, a role that was humbling and incredibly difficult, but she accepted it with a simple thought: if this is what Hashem wants from me right now, I'll do it.From there, her path only grew stronger. She converted to Orthodox Judaism, married an Israeli man who grew up in a very charedi neighborhood, and today she is a proud Jewish influencer living in the United States. Her journey is raw, brave, and full of faith.Follow Batyah here:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jewishfilipine/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jewishfilipineFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1HLzv774rd/✬ SPONSORS OF THE EPISODE ✬► United Refua Healthshare: Spend Less, Save More, Get CareImagine healthcare that puts you first - and can save you thousands.Enroll here→ https://bit.ly/3MD9RN9→ 440-772-0700→ Eli's Kosher Money Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnNaMEumWQg&t=4s► BitBean: Smart Custom Software Built for YouYaakov here. Just make the call. They can help you.Reach Out Here→ https://bitbean.link/MeEBlY► Zahler: The Go To Supplement PlaceWhat if there was ozempic, but not needles, safer, more tested, Better? Meet Berberine.If you want smart, science-backed support, Zahler is a strong choice. Take 15% OFF any Zahler product with code:INSPIRE→ https://bit.ly/3M3CtPI► Wheels To Lease: #1 Car CompanyFor over 35 years, Wheels To Lease has offered stress-free car buying with upfront pricing, no hidden fees, and door-to-door delivery.Call today!→ CALL/TEXT: 718-871-8715→ EMAIL: inspire@wheelstolease.com→ WEB: https://bit.ly/41lnzYU→ WHATSAPP: https://wa.link/0w46ce✬ IN MEMORY OF ✬This episode is in memory of:​ Shimon Dovid ben Yaakov Shloima​ Miriam Sarah bas Yaakov MosheHave a specific question? email us hi@livinglchaim.com#iftnLchaim.

Episode 396 - S17 E2: Our Honest Thoughts on the Philippines Today & Why We Love The Global Pinoy SpiritWe are officially back for the 2026 season!

Over the last few months, the hottest night out can be had at a Filipino supermarket. If you’re lucky enough to live near a Seafood City, you might have seen or experienced the multi-generational viral dance party conceptualized by JP Breganza back in August 2025. What is this phenomenon all about? Why does it attract...

Sa panibagong episode ng The Linya-Linya Show, kasama natin ang isa sa mga haligi ng Filipino stand-up comedy — standup comic, writer, podcaster, founder ng Comedy Manila, at miyembro ng back-to-back #1 comedy podcast sa bansa, The KoolPals — si GB Labrador!Bumalik kami sa kanyang pinagmulan: ang pagkabata sa 80s at 90s, panahon ng analog at Betamax. Ang kwento nya bilang batang Katipunan, na muntik mag-Pari, na natutong mag-basketball at dumakdak, at ang mga sandaling nadevelop ang kanyang humor at nahubog ang mga pananaw sa buhay.Pinag-usapan din namin ang early days ng Comedy Manila, ang dynamics ng The KoolPals, at ang kanyang paparating na Tayo-Tayo event sa Linya-Linya HQ, at ang 1-hour comedy special sa Hyundai Hall, sa Areté Ateneo.Samahan nyo kaming sikutin ang malikot na utak ng comedy genius at legend na si GB Labrador. Listen up, yo!

Desire Lacap is a Filipino video content creator whose work blends emotional storytelling, mental‑health advocacy, and high‑quality filmmaking. In her interview, she shares how she overcame significant emotional obstacles and used creativity as a path toward healing and personal growth. Her dedication to authenticity helped her build a strong online presence, eventually leading to collaborations with major brands like Adobe and creative work on music videos with artists such as Ruby Ibarra and Alicia Keys. Her journey is an inspiring example for aspiring creators who want to produce meaningful, well‑crafted video content rooted in purpose and passion.Support the show

History is full of interesting stories. On episode #511 of The PVDcast, my guest and I will discuss his new historical fiction project. Jay Kalagayan is that guest and his newest project is called St. Malo. This project focuses on the history of the Filipino people who migrated to North America. You will learn about the background of their settlement, St. Malo and how it might be the first Asian American community in the U.S. Couple this discussion with a recap of Jay's many other projects and you have one entertaining and informative edition of The PVDcast!   Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the show & new episodes of The PVDcast drop every Thursday!

On today's show, I stepped back and let two incredible chefs talk shop. Geno Lee, the fourth-generation owner of the Big Apple Inn on Farish Street, sits down with Simms Powell, a 15-year-old culinary and artistic prodigy who's been cooking since he was nine. Both are featured on the cover of our 2026 tour guide, and this conversation about Filipino food, fusion cuisine, and what it really takes to make people feel at home through food is exactly why Jackson's culinary scene is second to none. TRANSCRIPT: https://www.visitjackson.com/blog/soul-sessions-geno-lee-simms-powell

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The new film Magellan chronicles the life of Portuguese colonizer Ferdinand Magellan, the first person to circumnavigate the globe. Known for his voyage crossing the Pacific Ocean and landing on the island of Cebu, now the Philippines, the movie shows how Magellan was heralded as a hero to some, but is viewed as a murderer by many. In the film, the famed, acclaimed actor Gael García Bernal plays Magellan. We speak to the film's director, Lav Diaz, an award-winning filmmaker and writer from the Philippines.

A devout Filipino woman's daily prayers to her beloved green Buddha statue took an unexpected turn when a friend pointed out she'd been offering incense to the world's most famous animated ogre.READ or SHARE: https://weirddarkness.com/shrekbuddah/WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2026, Weird Darkness.#WeirdDarkness, #WeirdDarkNEWS, #Shrek, #Buddha, #ViralNews, #StrangeNews, #Philippines, #ReligiousMixUp, #FunnyStories, #InternetViral

The new film Magellan chronicles the life of Portuguese colonizer Ferdinand Magellan, the first person to circumnavigate the globe. Known for his voyage crossing the Pacific Ocean and landing on the island of Cebu, now the Philippines, the movie shows how Magellan was heralded as a hero to some, but is viewed as a murderer by many. In the film, the famed, acclaimed actor Gael García Bernal plays Magellan. We speak to the film's director, Lav Diaz, an award-winning filmmaker and writer from the Philippines.

In "Serving Aces" Alexandra Stevenson and Hugues Laverdiere talk diamonds and fashion including winners and losers.  Donna Vekic' diamond company gave each woman in the main draw a diamond bracelet.  Venus Williams was up 4-0 in the third - but somehow collapsed in technique and serve - and lost.  The Open had a record breaking crowd of 73,000 on the first day, with many of the fans rushing to see Alex Eala the young Filipino, who has become a breakout star on the WTA Tour with the amount of fans anxious to see her play.  From Hong Kong to Melbourne they are driven by Ella's tenacity.  She has given her country a lot to cheer.  The Aussies brought out Federer and Agassi to play Rafter and Hewitt in a pre first round doubles exhibition.  The retired Ash Barty came out to relieve a rather winded Agassi.Djokovic Alcaraz easily through as were Pegula, Gauff, Swiatek, Andrea.  Wimbledon champion Vondrousova had to withdraw because of a shoulder injury and Felix Auger Aliassime retired to cramping.  Ball is in Ougi's court talks about why the first round is so important and difficult to get through - as Alexandra attests to her play early in her career.  Podcast quote goes to Mark Twain and Heisman Trophy winner Fernando Mendoza, the Indiana University quarterback. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We chat about getting a late start in swimming, a last second section title, and being a part of the Fellowship for Christian Athletes. We also talk about his Filipino heritage, movies, overrated super powers, and much more! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

“We had been promised relief but none was coming, and all of us in Bataan shared a sense of betrayal.” This is the story of the United State's earliest—and most disastrous—days of war in the Pacific.  Almost immediately following Pearl Harbor, America and the Axis powers exchange rapid-fire war declarations. While embattled Britain breathes a sign of relief to have the US officially in the war, the Japanese Empire's sun is rising on the Pacific fast—and at great cost to the Philippines. As the Commonwealth's islands fall one by one, General Douglas MacArthur is forced to beat a hasty retreat. He evacuates to Australia and pledges to return; but what of the American and Filipino forces cornered on a small peninsula on Luzon? Well, they're not called the “Battling Bastards of Bataan” for nothing. But there's only so much they can do without outside support. Many thousands of POWs will be murdered or massacred in the post-surrender Bataan Death March of April 1942.  Amid these defeats and the ensuing crisis of morale, Washington concludes a successful counterattack on the Japanese home islands just might be the psychological win that America needs. Lieutenant Colonel James “Jimmy” Doolittle will lead an air attack… on Tokyo itself.  ____ Go to squarespace.com/HTDS for a free trial and use the offer code HTDS to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain from our advertising partner Squarespace. Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com and go deep into episode bibliographies and book recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette  come see a live show get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium member for bonus episodes and other perks. HTDS is part of Audacy media network. Interested in advertising on the History That Doesn't Suck? Contact Audacyinc.com. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we're excited to present a conversation with director Lav Diaz and lead actor Gael García Bernal as they discuss the NYFF63 selection Magellan with NYFF Artistic Director Dennis Lim. Interpretation by Gil Quito. Every astonishing visual composition carries historical and political weight in the monumental new film from singular Filipino filmmaker Lav Diaz, who mounts an absorbing story of colonial conquest and obsession, starring Gael García Bernal as Ferdinand Magellan. Magellan is now in theaters, courtesy of Janus Films. The 63rd New York Film Festival is presented in partnership with Rolex.

Our first guest of 2026 is a priest who took the Filipino social media landscape by storm thanks to his unexpectedly fluent Bisaya and more importantly his palpable passion for bringing Jesus to the young. From youth programs in Cebu to pastoring souls of all ages through his online platforms, this conversation with Father Sam packs so much learning, laughter, and inspiration in one episode.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's Host Miko Lee speaks with authors who have used their personal lives to tell their stories. They both talk and write about trauma, joy and resilience but in two very different ways. First up she chats with Chanel Miller. Many folx might know of Chanel's best selling first book Know My Name which expands on the powerful victim impact letter she wrote to Brock Turner who brutally sexually assaulted her on the Stanford Campus. We talk about her latest work – two delightful books for young people. Then Miko talks with Kazu Haga who weaves his spiritual practice and trauma healing with a deep lineage of nonviolent social change.  In his books, Fierce Vulnerability and Healing Resistance he shares with us his personal journey and offers some insightful visions for our current tumultuous world.  Links to the Author's work: Kazu Haga  Fierce Vulnerability Kinship Lab,  Chanel Miller Chanel Miller The Moon Without Stars Purchase Chanel's books at East Wind Books and Kazu's books at Parallax Press  SHOW TRANSCRIPT APEX Opening: Apex Express. Asian Pacific Expression. Community and cultural coverage. Music and calendar. New visions and voices. Coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express. Miko Lee: Good evening. Welcome to apex express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Join us as you hop along the apex express. Tonight I speak with authors who have used their personal lives to tell their stories. They both talk and write about trauma, joy, and resilience, but in two very different and distinct ways. First up, I chat with Chanel Miller. Many folks might know of Chanel's bestselling first book Know My Name, which expands on the powerful victim impact letter she wrote to Brock Turner, who brutally sexually assaulted her on the Stanford campus. But tonight we talk about her latest work, two delightful books for young people. And then I talk with Kazu Haga, who weaves his spiritual practice and trauma healing with a deep lineage of nonviolent social change. In his books Fierce vulnerability and Healing Resistance, he shares with us his personal journey and offers some insightful visions for our current tumultuous world. First off, listen to my conversation with Chanel Miller. Welcome, author Chanel Miller to Apex Express. Chanel Miller: Thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here with you. Miko Lee: I'm really excited to talk to you, and I wanna start with my first question, which I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Chanel Miller: Oh, I have so many people. Today, you're my people who continue to help guide me forward. I grew up in the Bay Area and I feel like honestly all of my books are attempts at saying thank you to the people who raised me, the English teachers in my public schools. For helping me stay aligned with myself and never letting me drift too far. And so even though I tell very different stories for different demographics, I think if you look at the root of everything that I write, it's gratitude because they are the people who protected my voice in the first place. Miko Lee: Thank you so much. So we're talking about your third book. Your first book was amazing. Know my name, which is really powerful memoir about surviving sexual assault at Stanford, and this incredible public reclamation of your voice. And then you move from that very personal, internal, very adult work to your second book, which was so lovely and sweet. Magnolia Woo unfolds it all, which was an illustrated book set New York about a little girl and her friend who reunite people with their lost socks. From this all the way to this young person's book and your latest book, the Moon Without Stars, your second, YA novel is based in middle school. So talk to me a little bit about this journey from personal memoir to elementary school to middle school books. Chanel Miller: Yeah, so like you said, the first book was so internal and gutting to write. I knew I needed. Something that would help me breathe a little easier and get in touch with playfulness again. I wrote Magnolia Woo Unfolds it all. It's perfect for kids ages seven to 12. My goal was just to enjoy the process of writing and story making. And it was confusing because I thought if I'm not, you know, during the memoir, I would be like crying while I was writing and it was just taking everything out of me. And I was like, if I'm not actively upset. Is the writing even good? Like, like, you know, does it count? And it turns out, yes, you can still create successful stories and have a good time. So I did that book for myself really. And the kid in me who always wanted to, who was always, writing stories unprompted. Like you said, it was a book about a sock detective and pursuing socks makes no sense. It's almost impossible to return a missing sock in New York City. But I loved the idea of these. This little girl in pursuit of something, even if she doesn't know what the outcome will be. Right. It's just trying even if you're not promised a reward, I love this. And for me it's like I keep attempting to love my reality, right? Attempting to go out into the world with an exploratory lens rather than a fearful one. And so that was very healing for me. After I finished that book, I spent the next year writing this new book, the Moon Without Stars. It's for slightly older kids, like you said in middle school. So my protagonist Luna, is 12 years old and she's biracial like me, goes to middle school in Northern California like I did in Palo Alto. I was just reflecting on my. Upbringing, I would say, and really sitting back and letting memories come to the surface. Trying to see how much, was just unexplored. And then sitting down to, to figure out what it all meant that I remembered all of these things. Miko Lee: So how much of Luna is inspired by Chanel? Chanel Miller: A fair amount, I'd say. And it's not always an intentional, I think fiction deals a lot with the subconscious and you end up writing about yourself on accent luna in the book. She is the campus book doctor, is what I call it. Because when kids are going through something, they'll come to her and she'll prescribe them a book that'll help them for whatever phase of life they're going through. And I know for me from a very young age, I loved reading, writing, and drawing. It's all that I ever wanted to do and I was so mad in school that we had six different subjects and you know, the Bay Area was very tech. Centered, STEM centered. And so I felt all this pressure even through high school to take AP Science classes. In retrospect, I thought, why was I trying so hard to be good at it? Everything. This is impossible. And so for Luna, I own her gifts early. And understand that they were gifts at all. The fact that she loves to read and then she shares her gifts and she takes pride in the things that she's passionate about. She's not ashamed that she's not so hot about math. Miko Lee: So the hating math part is a little Chanel inspired also. Chanel Miller: The hating math part is fully me. I'm sorry to say. Miko Lee: No worries. I think that stereotype about Asians and math is so highly overrated. I'm wondering if there was a Scott for you, a bestie that was also an outcast, if there was someone like that for you when you were growing up. Chanel Miller: Yeah, so in the book, Luna is best friends with Scott. They've been friends since childhood, and as Luna starts to get more attention, their relationship is threatened and it begins to dissolve. I was really interested in how, Luna obviously loves Scott as a friend and she would never. Mean to hurt him, right? It's not inflicting intentional emotional pain, but Scott gets very hurt. I think about how sometimes when we're growing up, we get drawn to certain crowds or paid a kind of attention and we have this longing to be desired to fit in. we sometimes make choices that we're not very proud of, but this is a part of it, right? And so I wanted Luna to reckon with maybe some of the emotional harm she's causing and not run away from it. But also think about like, why am I making these choices and what is important to me? We're all kind of constantly reevaluating our value systems, trying to keep our relationships alive, like this is, starts at a very young age and I wanted her to learn some of the self gifts that maybe I didn't give myself when I was that age. Miko Lee: So in a way, she's a little bit of a remedy for your young self or a gift to your young self. Do you think? Chanel Miller: Oh, that's a nice way of putting it. Yeah, I would definitely say so. I think all writing is, is remedy in some form, at least for me, but I like the, it being a gift to little Chanel. Miko Lee: It's been compared to the classic. Are you there god, it's me, Margaret? What is it like for you to hear that? Chanel Miller: It's an honor, obviously. I think what's most stunning is a lot of the themes that were contested in that book. You know, talking about bodily changes, menstruation like. A lot of that is still kind of hush hush, and I'm surprised by the things that haven't changed , or how our society hasn't completely evolved. I really wanted middle school so hard physically, emotionally, and. It can feel so humiliating that you're trying to solve a lot of your issues in private, and I wanted to take the shame out of it as quickly as possible and just say, this is a universal experience. Everyone goes through these things. It's totally okay to talk about it, even if books get banned. Find a way, find your people. Find a way to have these conversations. Miko Lee: For me, it's so much better than, are you there? God, it's me, Margaret, because it's set in a contemporary. There's a young biracial Asian American girl who's a outcast and really it's about belonging and getting your first period and all the things you have to go through in middle school. That seems really. Relatable for a young woman in our society. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I read it really quick one night, easily read 'cause it's so lovely. I'm wondering about your process because you illustrated, your last book and then also the cover of this book. And on the cover it's sweet because it has all these cute little zines that she writes about are encapsulated on the cover of the book, which you only realize after you read it. I'm wondering for you as an artist, what comes first in the story, the image or the words? Chanel Miller: That's a great question. Yeah. I like to illustrate my books. Sometimes I'll think of a, something I do wanna draw and then think, how can I build a story around that, or like a visually rich scene. Then I come up with writing to allow myself to draw the thing. Other times I will just write, but I, I will say that when I'm writing, I never have a plot. I'm not an outliner. I am very much an explorer. I'm okay with not knowing for long periods of time where the book is gonna go, what it's about , and how it's gonna end. I don't know any of these things. And luckily I have a very gracious, agent and editor and my editor. I had two editors, Jill and Juan, and they let me just submit chunks of writing for six months. Scenes that didn't go together, that were completely out of order , to show them I'm attempting to build this world and this school full of kids, but I don't know how it's all gonna play out yet. And then after six months, we had enough material to, to begin to identify like who the primary characters were gonna be, what the essential conflict was gonna be. I'm saying this because I want people to know that you don't have to know much before you sit down to write. And the knowing comes with the practice of doing every day, and then slowly things start to reveal themselves. Miko Lee: Oh, I appreciate that. So you don't have a linear timeframe. You kind of just let things come to you. Sometimes they're in images, sometimes they're in words. Chanel Miller: Yes. And then your job is to capture them and be curious about them and then make more until you have enough. Then you can edit, but you edit too early, you're gonna , kill the spirit of the thing. Miko Lee: When do you know you have enough? Chanel Miller: When you fulfill the word count in your contract? No, no, I think it's, it's like you can. Sort of start to feel things click into place or a voice is emerging that's very strong. Even Scott know, Luna's best friend, I didn't have him at the very beginning, I don't think originally. Originally, I think Luna had a sister. It was gonna be a sister book, and then it became a friend. You're just open to it evolving, and then suddenly you're like, oh, I can, I can see this relationship. Can see them existing within the structure. It feels more real to you and at that point you can just go in and start revising Miko Lee: Did you create images for know my name? Chanel Miller: I actually tried to, at the very end, I made a bunch of drawings and I said, can we put these at the start of each chapter? And my editor, who's incredible, she said, you know, when I look at your drawings, they have a different voice than your writing voice. And I was like, that is true. Like, that's a great critique. So instead I went to New York, they were like about to send the book to print and I was like, okay, but I need like one drawing. They said, okay, if you can do it at lunch, like have it done by the end of lunch, we'll put it in the acknowledgement. So I dedicated the book to my family and. I sat at the desk and just did this little, these four little creatures that represented my immediate family and cut it outta my notebook. They scanned it in and sent it off to print with a book. So I did get, I did get it. Miko Lee: And how is the illustrator's voice different from the author's voice? Chanel Miller: The illustrator's voice can be very loose, whimsical, playful, whereas the writing, you know, was so measured and heavy and intentional, and so. I liked that edit, and I also, my editor was confident that I would have more opportunities in the future to write and draw, whereas I felt so vulnerable. It's my first book, it's my only chance to say or do anything, but that's not true. Now I understand like I have time to make all kinds of things. You don't have to shove it all into one project. Miko Lee: And are these, more youth-focused books? Do you feel like that's more a combination of your illustrator and your author voice? Chanel Miller: Totally. The medium like allows you to do both. It kind of asks for images also. Who knows, maybe, I still wanna write, contemporary fiction for adults and maybe I'll adults like visuals too. Absolutely. Miko Lee: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm wondering what you want young readers to walk away with after reading the, your latest book. Chanel Miller: Things smooth out in really unexpected ways. And that you can never truly mess up. Like I messed up so many times growing up or would get a really bad grade. I really would think like, this is the end. Like my future just disappeared. I just can't recover from this, and I always would, and I'm here now, like there, there are so many times I guess, that I thought my life was totally and completely over and, it was never the case. Sure, life could be sour for a bit, or you could be really stressed out, but it's not the end. Different things will change. People will be introduced to help you. Like you just keep showing up in whatever way you can. You won't be stuck in that place. It's been a nice thing to learn, as you get older. I just remember when I felt young, it felt so impossible sometimes, and I promise it's not, Miko Lee: I imagine that with Know my name. Many people came up with you, survivors came up and shared their stories with you, and I'm wondering if that was the same with your second book, if people came up and just told stories about, being a kid detective or what their, if it brought things up for them in a totally different realm. Chanel Miller: Oh yeah, absolutely. In the book, Magnolia's parents are Chinese and, , they're working at a laundromat and a customer comes in and there's, microaggressions happen and, I think with microaggressions you can always. Justify them in your head and say, it's not as bad as explicit violence or something, where it's not a truly a crime. And so you kind of push them to the side, push them to the side, but over time, like they do really stick with you and they're so hurtful and they accumulate and they're not okay to begin with. And I wanted my little character, Magnolia to. Just feel that anger that I often suppress and be like, it's not okay for people to talk to you like that. Like we are allowed to say something about it. It's dehumanizing and it's unacceptable. I wanted to give her the opportunity to confront that emotion and really express what, how it made her feel. Miko Lee: You're just starting your book tour right now. Is that right? For the Moon Without Stars. Chanel Miller: My book comes out January 13th. I'll go on a two week book tour. I'll have two stops in the Bay area. One at, book passage in Cord Madera. One in Los Altos at a church. It's sponsored by Linden Tree Books. We're just doing the event offsite, so if you're in the bay and wanna come say hello, please do that. Miko Lee: Yay. Excited to hear about that. I'm curious, I'm really curious what kind of stories people will tell you about their kind of middle school bully experience or their standing up to bullies and wanting to be in the popular crowd and what's that like? It's such a common middle school experience. Chanel Miller: I'm just really happy that people like have the opportunity to remember, 'cause it's not what we talk about every day. I just love that things are coming up for people and you're like, wow, I never would've thought about that or. I, I, that's why writing is so fun. You get to remember. Miko Lee: It's definitely not what we talk about every day, but definitely that middle school time really, helps shape who we are as adults. That's a really tough time because there's so many hormones going crazy in your body. So many changes that I think a lot of people have big feelings about middle school. Tell us what's next for you. Chanel Miller: I still love writing middle grade like this age is so sweet. It's so rich, emotionally rich. I would like to do something that's, you know, this one was more contemporary realism and I would love to do something that, not pure fantasy, but like breaks the rules of reality a little bit. Just really see where my imagination can go. A little magical realism perhaps. Yeah, absolutely. Miko Lee: I would just encourage you, I really love the Scott and Luna characters and seeing them patch their relationship up in high school as friends and how they can grow. Oh, I think would be a really sweet story also, and how they could explore maybe through magical realism. Some of the, book Doctors Zine World would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. I like those characters, is what I'm saying. I think there's more to come outta those characters and their friendship. Chanel Miller: Oh, that's really sweet. You don't wanna say goodbye to them yet. Miko Lee: Yeah, that's right. Well, it has been a delight chatting with you. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and your work and it's very powerful. Appreciate chatting with you. Chanel Miller: I really appreciate the platform you provide and how you're making room for these genuine conversations. So thank you so much. Jalena Keane-Lee: Next up, listen to blues scholars ode to Yuri Kochiyama. That was Blue Scholars, Ode to Yuri Kochiyama. Miko Lee: Yuri Koyama said, we are all part of one another, and that relates so well to my conversation with author, organizer and teacher Kazu Haga. Welcome, Kazu Haga to Apex Express. I'm so glad to have you with us. Kazu Haga: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Miko Lee: I'm gonna start with a question that I ask all of my guests because I'm a curious person, and my question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Kazu Haga: Oh, wow. Well, when you ask the second question, the immediate response is that I am Japanese. There's a lot of important legacies that come with that. Of course there's so much of my Japanese ancestry that I'm proud of and want to continue to deepen in and understand better. But I'm also aware that, you know, being Japanese, I come from colonizer people, right? And I'm so aware of the. Harm that my ancestors caused to so many people, whether dating back all the way to indigenous. I knew people in Japan, or a lot of the violence that my ancestors committed during the war to Zan Korean communities and Chinese communities and Filipino communities. I feel like in addition to all the beauty and the amazing things that I love about Japanese culture, that's a legacy that I carry with me and a lot of my work has to do with trying to understand what it means to carry that legacy and what it means to try to heal from that legacy and how I take that approach into my own personal life as well as into my activist work. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for recognizing that history and sharing a little bit about your path. I can see so much of how that turns up in your work. So I've had the pleasure of reading your two latest two books. I'm sure there'll be many more to come, I hope. Can you speak a little bit about what inspired you to create healing resistance? Kazu Haga: Yeah, so healing resistance is my interpretation of a set of teachings called kingian non-violence, and it's a philosophy that was based on the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. And I have the great privilege to have been mentored by a lot of elders who work very closely with Dr. King and were some of the most instrumental leaders in the civil Rights movement. I started my kind of activist career back in 1999 or something like that when I was 18, 19 years old. And for the longest time, the word non-violence didn't have a lot of meaning to me. But when I was 28 years old, I think I took this two-day workshop on this philosophy called King Non-Violence, and that two-day workshop just completely changed my life forever. I thought after 10 years of doing nothing but social justice movement building work, that I had some idea of what the word non-violence meant and some idea of who Dr. King was. But that two day workshop taught me that I knew nothing about what the word non-violence meant. Since I took that workshop, I feel like I've been on this never ending journey to better understand what it means to practice non-violence and incorporate that as a value into my life. And so healing resistance is, yeah, just my spin on the teachings of Dr. King told through the stories of my life experiences. Miko Lee: I really appreciated how you wove together your personal journey with your, understanding of movement building and how you incorporated that in. I'm wondering, I think it was in this book, but I read both of your books close to back to back, so I might be mixing them up, but I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the salt protestors that happened in India and the two years of training that it took them to be able to stand up and for our listeners, just like really back up and explain what that protest was about, and then the kind of training that it took to get there. Kazu Haga: It was actually more than two years. So, you know, everyone, or a lot of people know about the Salt March. It's the thing that I think a lot of people look to as the thing that really sparked the Indian Independence Movement, similar to the Montgomery Bus boycott in the US Civil Rights Movement. It's when a group of people marched across India all the way to the ocean. Engaged in an act of civil disobedience was, which was to go into the water and make their own salt. Salt is something that had been heavily controlled and taxed by the British Empire, and so the people who lived even on the coast of the ocean were not allowed to make their own salt. And so it was an act of civil disobedience to break a British colonial law saying that we are reclaiming this ancestral cottage industry for ourselves. And one of the reasons why it was so powerful and drew so many millions of people out into the street was because when Gandhi envisioned it. He didn't just put out an open call and said, anyone who wants to join the March can join. Ultimately, that's where they landed. But when the March started, he selected, I think it was about 76 of his followers, and he chose these 76 people and said, you all are gonna start the Salt March. And he chose those 76 people because they had lived in Astrom. And did spiritual practice and engaged in creative nonviolent direct action together for 16 years before they embarked on the salt march. So it was 16 years of kinda like dedicated residential spiritual training , and nonviolent direct action training that allowed these people to become the type of leaders that could draw out millions and millions of people into the street. And so it's one of the things that I really learned about the legacy of nonviolence is the importance of training and understanding that preparing ourselves spiritually to lead a movement that can transform nations is a lifetime of work. And to not underestimate the importance of that training and that rigor. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for correcting me. Not two but 16 years and a really a lifetime to, that's right. To develop the skills. I wonder if you've been following the Buddhist monks that are walking across the US right now. Kazu Haga: Yeah. And the dog, right? Miko Lee: Yeah. Whose dog and that dog. And I wonder what your thoughts are on that. Kazu Haga: I've really come to this place where I understand injustice and state violence, not as a political issue, but as a manifestation of our collective trauma. Like all the forms of state violence and injustice that we see, they happen because collectively as nation states and as communities and as a species, we have unresolved trauma that we haven't been able to heal from. And I think if we can see injustice less as a political issue and more as a manifestation of collective trauma, then perhaps we can build movements that have the sensitivity to understand that we can't just shut down injustice that when you're responding to a trauma response, what you need to do is to try to open things up. Things like spiritual practice and spiritual worldviews, like what, however that word spiritual lands on people. I think that there's a broad understanding of spirituality that doesn't have to include any sort of religious stigma. But when we ground ourselves in spiritual practice, when we ground ourselves in this larger reality that we belong to something so much larger than ourselves as individuals, then a lot more is possible and we're able to open things up and we're able to slow things down in response to the urgency of this moment, which I think is so necessary. When I look at these Buddhist monks spending however months it's gonna take for them to reach Washington dc the patience. The rigor and the slowness. How every step is a prayer for them. And so all of those steps, all of that effort is I think adding to something that has the possibility to open something up in a way that a one day protest cannot. So I'm really inspired by that work. Miko Lee: And it's amazing to see how many people are turning out to walk with them or to watch them. And then on the same hand, or the other hand, is seeing some folks that are protesting against them saying, that this is not the right religion, which is just. Kind of shocking to me. Grew up in a seminary environment. My dad was a professor of social ethics and we were really taught that Jesus is a son of God and Kuan is a daughter of God. And Muhammad, all these different people are sons and daughters of God and we're all under the same sky. So it seems strange that to me, that so many folks are using religion as a tool for. Pain and suffering and injustice and using it as a justification. Kazu Haga: Yeah. It's sad to hear people say that this is the wrong religion to try to create change in the world because I think it's that worldview that is at the heart of what is destroying this planet. Right. It's, it's not this way. It has to be that way and this binary right. Wrong way of thinking. Miko Lee: Yeah. Kazu Haga: But yeah. The first spiritual book I ever read when I was 16 years old was a book by Thích Nhất Hanh called Living Buddha, living Christ. Yes. And in that book he was saying that the teachings of the Buddha and the teachings of Jesus Christ, if you really look at the essence of it, is the same thing. Miko Lee: That's right. Yeah. This brings us to your book, fierce Vulnerability, healing from Trauma Emerging Through Collapse. And we are living in that time right now. We're living in a time of utter collapse where every day it seems like there's a new calamity. We are seeing our government try to take over Venezuela right now and put police forces into Minnesota. It's just crazy what's going on. I wonder if you can just talk a little bit about this book. Clearly it's the Times that has influenced your title and [00:34:00] in influenced you to write this book can be, share a little bit more about what you're aiming to do. Kazu Haga: Yeah, and you know, it's also Greenland and Cuba and Colombia and Panama, and it's also the climate crisis and it's also all of these other authoritarian regimes that are rising to power around the co, around the world. And it's also pandemics and the next pandemics. And we are living in a time of the poly crisis. A time that our recent ancestor, Joanna Macy calls the great turning or the great unraveling so we can get to the great turning where all of these systems are in a state of collapse and the things that we have come to, to be able to rely on are all unraveling. And I think if we are not grounded in. Again, I use this word spirituality very broadly speaking, but if we are not grounded in a sense that we are connected to something so much larger than ourselves as individuals, I think it's so easy to just collapse and get into this trauma response state in response to all of the crises that we are facing, and so fierce vulnerability. It's at the intersection of spiritual practice, trauma healing, and nonviolent action, and understanding that in response to all of these crises that we are facing, we need powerful forms of action. To harness the power necessary to create the transformations that we need to see. And at the same time, can we see even forms of nonviolent resistance as a form of, as a modality of collective trauma healing? And what are the practices that we need to be doing internally within our own movements to stay grounded enough to remember that we are interdependent with all people and with all life. What does it take for us to be so deeply grounded that even as we face a possible mass extinction event that we can remember to breathe and that we can remember that we are trying to create beauty, not just to destroy what we don't like, but we are trying to affirm life. What does that look like? And so if fierce vulnerability is an experiment, like we don't have all the answers, but if I could just put in a plug, we're about to launch this three month. Experiment called the Fierce Vulnerability Kinship Lab, where we'll be gathering across the world. Participants will be placed in small teams, that are regionally based, so you can meet with people in person, hopefully, and to really try to run a bunch of experiments of what is it gonna take to respond to state violence, to respond to these crises in a way that continues to affirm life and reminds us that we belong to each other. Miko Lee: That sounds amazingly powerful. Can you share how people can get involved in these labs? Kazu Haga: People can check it out on my website, kazu haga.com, and it'll link to the actual website, which is convene.community. It's K-I-N-V-E-N-E. It's a combination of the idea of kinship and community. It's gonna be a really cool program. We just announced it publicly and France Weller and Ma Muse and Kairo Jewel Lingo, and it's gonna be a lot of great teach. And we're trying to just give people, I know so many people are yearning for a way to respond to state violence in a way that feels deeply aligned with their most sacred beliefs and their value systems around interdependence, and peacemaking and reconciliation, but also recognizes that we need to harness power that we need to. Step out of the comfort of our meditation cushions and yoga centers and actually hit the streets. But to do so in a way that brings about healing. It's our way of creating some communities where we can experiment with that in supportive ways. Miko Lee: What is giving you hope these days? Kazu Haga: My daughter and the community that I live in. Like when I look up at the world, things are in a state of collapse. Like when I watch the news, there's a lot of things that are happening that can take away my hope. But I think if we stop looking up all the time and just start looking around, if I start looking around in, not at the vertical plane, but at the horizontal plane, what I see are so many. Amazing communities that are being birthed, land-based communities, mutual aid networks, communities, where people are living together in relationship and trying to recreate village like structures. There are so many incredible, like healing collaboratives. And even the ways that we have brought song culture and spirit back into social movement spaces more and more in the last 10, 15 years, there are so many things that are happening that are giving birth to new life sustaining systems. We're so used to thinking that because the crisis is so big, the response that we need is equally big. When we're looking for like big things, we're not seeing movements with millions of millions of people into the in, in the streets. We're not seeing a new nonprofit organizations with billions of dollars that have the capacity to transform the world because I think we keep looking for big in response to big. But I think if we look at a lot of wisdom traditions, particularly Eastern Traditions, Daoism and things like that, they'll tell us that. Perhaps the best way to respond to the bigness of the crises of our times is to stay small. And so if we look for small signs of new life, new systems, new ways of being in relationship to each other and to the earth, I think we see signs of that all over the place. You know, small spiritual communities that are starting up. And so I see so much of that in my life, and I'm really blessed to be surrounded by a lot of that. Miko Lee: I really appreciate how you walk the walk and talk, the talk in terms of teaching and living in a collective space and even how you live your life in terms of speaking engagements and things. Can you share a little bit about the gift economy that you practice and what's that about? Share with our audience what that even means. Kazu Haga: Yeah. I love this question. Thank you. So the gift economy to me is our attempts at building economic structures that learn from how natural ecosystems share and distribute its resources, right? It's an alternative model to the market system of economics where everything is transac. If you look out into nature, nothing is transactional. Right? All of the gifts that a mycelial network gives to the forest, that it's a part of the ecology that it's a part of. It's given freely, but it's also given freely because it knows that it is part of a deeply interdependent ecosystem where it will also receive everything it needs to be nourished. And so there's a lot that I can say about that. I actually working on, my next book will be on the Gift Economy. But one of the main manifestations of that is all of the work that I do, I try to offer as a gift. So I don't charge anything for the work that I do. The workshops that I organize, you know, the Convene three month program that I told you about, it's a three month long program with world renowned leaders and we are asking people to pay a $25 registration fee that'll support the platform that, that we're building, the program on. And. There's no kind of set fee for the teachers, myself, Francis Weller, mam, all these people. And people have an opportunity to give back to the ecosystem if they feel called and if they're able to try to sustain, to help sustain our work. But we really want to be able to offer this as a gift. And I think in the market economy, a three month virtual training with well-known teachers for $25 is unheard of. Of course $25 doesn't sustain me. It doesn't sustain all of the teachers that are gonna be part of this, but I have so much faith that if we give our work freely and have faith that we are doing the work that we're meant to be doing, that the universe will come together to sustain us. And so I am sustained with the generosity of a lot of [00:42:00] people, a lot of donors, a lot of people who come to my workshop and feel called to give, not out of a sense of obligation, but because they want to support me in my work. Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing and I was so impressed on your website where you break down your family's whole annual budget and everything that you spent funds on. Everybody talks about transparency, but nobody really does it. But you're actually doing it. And for reals, just showing something that's an antidote to the capitalist system to be able to say, okay, this is us. This is our family, this is how we travel, this is what we do, and. I found it really charming and impressive in our, it's hard to rebel against a system where everything has been built up so that we're supposed to act a certain way. So appreciate you. Absolutely. Yeah. Showing some alternatives and I didn't know that's gonna be your next book. So exciting. Kazu Haga: Yeah, I just started it. I'm really grateful that I have a partner that is okay with sharing all of our family's finances transparently. That helps because it is a big thing, you know? Yeah. But one of the things that I really learned. But the gift economy is that if there isn't information, if there isn't transparency about what the system's needs are, then it becomes dependent on every individual to figure out. How much they want to give to that system. And I think the gift economy is trying to break outta that the model of individualism and understand that we are interdependent and we live in this rich ecosystem of interdependence. And so if people's needs aren't transparent, then it's hard for people to figure out how they want to engage in that relationship. Miko Lee: Can you share a little bit more the example of Buddhist monks and how they have the basket and. Share that story a bit for our audience. Kazu Haga: Yeah. So historically, in a lot of, particularly south and southeastern, Asian countries, Buddhist monks, they go around, they walk their community every morning, begging, quote unquote for alms. They ask for donations, and the people in that village in that town will offer them bread or rice or whatever it is. That's kind of the food that, that monks and monastics eat. And so if a Buddhist monk is walking around with a bowl and you see that their bowl is already full, you have a sense, oh, this monastic might not need any more food, but the next monastic that comes along might. And so it's this transparent way of saying, oh, this person's needs are met, so let me hold on to the one piece of bread that I have that I can donate today and see if the next person will need it. And so in that way. If I share my finance transparently, you know, if my financial needs for the month or for the quarter are met, then maybe people who attend my workshops will feel like, oh, I don't have a lot of money to give. Maybe I don't need to give to support Kazu Haga, but maybe I can support, the facilitator for the next workshop that I attend. And so, in that way, I'm hoping that me being transparent about where my finances are will help people gauge how they want to be in relationship with me. Miko Lee: Thank you. I appreciate it. You talk a lot about in your work about ancestral technology or the wisdom, our ancestral wisdoms and how powerful that is. It made me think about the day after the election when Trump was elected. I happened to be in this gathering of progressive artists in the Bay Area and everybody was. Incredibly depressed. There was even, should we cancel that day or not? But we pulled together, it was at the Parkway Theater in Oakland and there was an aone leader and she talked about the eighth fire and how we are in the time of the eighth fire and you write about the fires in your book, and I'm wondering if you can talk about the seven fires and the prophecy belt. Kazu Haga: Yeah. So through a strange course of events, I had the incredible privilege early on in my life when I was in my early teens, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old, to spend every summer going to the Algonquin Reservation, Anishnabe Nation, way up in Northern Quebec, and spend my evenings sleeping in the basement of Chief William Commander, who was the holder of the seven Fire Prophecies Wampum Belt. This is a prophecy that told the story of the seventh fire that we are in the time of the seventh fire. And this is a moment in the history of our species where we can remember what it means to be human and to go backwards and to reclaim our spiritual path. If we are able to do that, then we can rebuild a new world, the eighth fire and build a world of lasting peace. But if we are unable to do that and continue down this material journey, that will lead to a world of destruction. And this is, prophecies like this one and similar indigenous prophecies that speak the same exact things are the things that were. Just surrounded, that I was surrounded by when I was younger, and I'm so grateful that even though I didn't really believe this kind of stuff when I was younger, it was like the, you know, crazy hippie newey stuff that my mom was into. I'm so grateful to have been surrounded by these teachings and hearing these teachings directly from the elders whose lives purpose. It was to share these teachings with us because when I look out at the world now, it really feels like we are in a choice point as a species. Like we can continue to walk down one journey, one path, and I could very easily see how it would lead to a world of destruction. But we have an opportunity to remember who we are and how we're meant to live in relationship with each other and to the earth. And I have a lot of faith that if we're able to do that, we can build such a beautiful future for our children. And so I think this is the moment that we're in. Miko Lee: Yeah. Thank you so much. Can you share a little bit about your mom? It seems like she was a rule breaker and she introduced you to so many things and you're appreciating it later as an adult, but at the time you're like, what is this? Kazu Haga: Yeah. You know, she was. She grew up in Japan. We were all born in Japan, but she spent a year overseas in the United States as ex as an exchange student in high school. And she always tells me when she went back to Japan, she was listening to the Beatles, and she shaved her legs and she was this like rebellious person in Japan. But yeah, my mom is never been a political activist in the same way that, that I've become. But she's always been deeply, deeply grounded in spiritual practice. Miko Lee: Mm-hmm. Kazu Haga: And for various reasons have always had deep relationships with indigenous elders in North America and Turtle Island. And so I'm always grateful. I feel like she sowed a lot of seeds that when I was young, I made fun of meditation and I was not into spiritual practice at all. 45 years into my life, I find myself doing all the same things that, that she was doing when I was young, and really seeing that as the foundation of the work that I do in the world today. Miko Lee: And have you, have you talked with her about this? Kazu Haga: Oh yeah. I live with her, so we regularly Oh, I Miko Lee: didn't realize Kazu Haga: that.Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's read the book and Yeah. We have a lot of opportunities to, to yeah, just talk and, and reminisce and, and wonder at. How life has a tendency to always come back full circle. Miko Lee: Mm. The paths we lead and how they intertwine in some ways. Definitely. Mm, I love that. I let you know before we went on air is that I'm also interviewing the author Chanel Miller in this episode. You shared with me that you are familiar with her work. Can you talk about that? Kazu Haga: Yeah, so, you know, I talk quite a bit in both of my books about how one of the great privileges that I have is to do restorative justice and trauma healing work with incarcerated people, mostly through the prisons in California. And one of the programs that I've had the privilege to be a part of is with the Ahimsa Collective, where we work with a lot of men who have an experience with sexual violence specifically, both as survivors of sexual harm and as perpetrators oftentimes. And in that program we actually used the letter that she wrote and published as an example of the power of what it could mean to be a survivor speaking their truth. And we used to read this letter in the groups with incarcerated people. And I remember the first time I ever read it, I was the one that was reading it out loud. I broke down into tears reading that, that letter, and it was so powerful. And it's one of those written statements that I think has helped a lot of people, incarcerated people, and survivors, oftentimes, they're both the same people, really heal from the scars that they've experienced in life. So yeah, I have a really deep connection to specifically that statement and her work. Miko Lee: Yeah, it's really powerful. I'm wondering, given that how you use art as a tool to heal for yourself. Kazu Haga: You know, I always wished I was a better poet or a better painter or something like that, but I do really feel like there are certain deep truths that cannot be expressed in just regular linear language. It can only be spoken in song or in dance or in poetry. There's something mystical. There's something that, that is beyond the intellect capacity to understand that I think can be powerfully and beautifully expressed through art. I think art and spiritual practice and prayer and things like that are very like closely aligned. And so in that way I, I try to touch the sacred, I try to touch spirit. I try to touch mystery in the things that I can't quite articulate. Just through conversation and giving in a lecture or a PowerPoint presentation, to, yeah, to touch into something more, more important. Miko Lee: And is your spiritual practice built into your every day? Kazu Haga: To the extent possible. One of the traditions that I have really learned a lot from and love is the Plum Village tradition founded by Thich Nhat Hanh. And they're so good at really reminding us that when we wash our dishes, that can be a spiritual practice, right? I'm the father of a young child. And so it's hard to actually sit down and meditate and to find time for that. And so, how can I use. My moments with my daughter when I'm reading her a book as a spiritual practice, how can I, use the time that I'm picking up the toys that's thrown all around the house as spiritual practice. So in that way, I really try to incorporate that sort of awareness and that reminder that I belong to something larger and everything that we do. Miko Lee: After hearing Ty speak one time, I tried to practice the chewing your food 45 times. I could not do it. Like, how does he do Kazu Haga: that? Some food is easier than others. If you eat oatmeal, it's a little harder, but Miko Lee: like that is some kind of practice I cannot do. Kazu Haga: But, you know, I have, a meditation teacher that years ago taught me every time you get inside your car. The moment that you turn the keys and turn on the ignition in your car, just take that moment and see if you can notice the texture of the keys and see if you can really feel your muscles turning to turn the key. And it's in these little moments that if we bring that intention to it, we can really turn what is like a, you know, a mindless moment into something with deep, deep awareness. Hmm. Miko Lee: Thank you for that. That's an interesting one. I have not heard that one before. Kazu Haga: Nowadays I just like push a button so it's even more mind less. Miko Lee: That's right. There's just a button Now. Keys, there's not even the time anymore to do that. That's right. What is it that you'd love folks to walk away with from being familiar with your work? You, there's so many aspects. You have different books that are out, you lead workshops, you're speaking, you are everyday walking through the world, sharing different things. What is one thing you'd love people to understand? Kazu Haga: Between both of my books and all the work that I do, so much of the essence is to try to help us remember. We belong to each other. I think the fear of isolation, the fear that we do not belong, is one of the most common fears that every human being has. Right? At some point in our lives, we felt like we don't belong. And while that is such a real fear, it's also a delusion. Like in an interdependent world, there is nothing outside of belonging, right? And so we already belong. We are already whole, we are already part of the vastness of the cosmos. There is so much power in remembering that we are part of the infinite universe, and I think the delusion that we do not belong to each other is like is the seed that creates the us versus them worldview, and it's that us versus them worldview that is at the heart of what is destroying our planet. In our efforts to create social change, how can we do so in a way that reminds us that even the people that are causing harm is a deeply critical interwoven web of relationships. That we are all in this web of relationship, that there's nobody outside of that, and how can we go about trying to create change in a way that reminds us of that? Miko Lee: Thank you. And my last question is, I'm wondering if there's something that you're learning from your child these days. Kazu Haga: Yeah, the, just the, the pure presence, right? That each moment is so deeply, deeply real, and each moment is to be honored. Like I am amazed at, we were eating asparagus the other day, and she was eating a whole bowl of asparagus, and she desperately needed me to get her the one piece of asparagus that she wanted. She was so frustrated that I couldn't find the one asparagus that she wanted, and so she was crying and screaming and throwing asparagus across the room, and then the moment I was able to find the one asparagus that she wanted, everything is fine. Everything is beautiful. She's smiling, she's laughing, and so just to. Not that we should be like throwing things around if we're not getting exactly what we want, but how can we honor our emotions every moment in a way that in that moment there is nothing outside of that moment. That sort of presence, is something that I really try to embody and try to learn from her. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing with me. I really appreciate reading your books and being in community with you and, we'll put links to your website so that people Awesome. Thank you. Can find out more. And also, I really appreciate that you're having your books published by a small Buddhist press as and encouraging people to buy from that. Kazu Haga: Yeah. Shout out to ax. Miko Lee: Yes, we will absolutely put those links in our show notes. And thank you so much for joining us on Apex Today. Kazu Haga: Thank you so much for having me. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining me on this evening conversation with two different authors, Chanel Miller and Kazu Haga, and my little pitch is just to keep reading. Reading is such a critical and important way we learn about the world. I was just reading this thing that said the average Americans read 12 to 13 books a year. And when I checked in with friends and family, they said that could not be true. That they think they know many people who don't read any books. And I am just encouraging you all to pick up a book, especially by an Asian American Pacific Islander author, hear our perspectives, hear our stories. This is how we expand and understand our knowledge around the world. Grow closer to the people in both our lives and people around the world. So yea to reading, yea to Chanel Miller and Kazu Haga. And check out a local bookstore near you. If you wanna find out more information, please check out our website, kpfa.org, black slash programs, apex Express, where I will link both of these authors and how you can purchase their books at your local independent bookstore. Thank you very much. Goodnight. Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nina Phillips, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam Tonight's show was produced by me, your host, Miko Lee. Thank you so much for joining us. The post APEX Express – 1.15.26 – Chat with Authors appeared first on KPFA.

Monday in the Palm Street Studio means podcast recording!  Malort is not a gear grind!  Adam and THC, it's either all, or nothing!  Problems with the sump and drainage under Phil's deck, watch out for the big icicles.  Urban DIC calls in and degrades all the opponents!  We want a Jollibee, Filipino things are awesome, plus a Hot and Now.  All things Canada and we should apply for dual citizenship.  "Chow my bag!"   Featuring OK Kyle, The Grumpy Griller, Brian "The Blade", Hall of Famer Junior!, Sir Phillip, and Lord Filkins.  Make good choices!

In this episode, Diana's special guest Jake Doberenz, founder of Theophany Media and host of the Creatively Christian podcast, shares his expertise on effective Bible study. The discussion covers essential principles of biblical interpretation, the importance of studying scripture in community, and approaches to understanding difficult passages. Listeners are also guided on selecting appropriate Bible translations and utilizing various online resources, ensuring a comprehensive and balanced approach to scripture study. The episode concludes with a prayer for listeners' spiritual journey and their engagement with the scriptures. Bio: Jake Doberenz isn't one thing. He identifies as a polymath, a Renaissance man, or a multipotentialite–one interest or specialty can't contain him. But enough of the third-person. I am a writer, speaker, minister, and creative thinker living in Oklahoma City, OK with my wife Samantha. My most significant role is the founder and president of Theophany Media, a Christian education company dedicated to helping Christians engage with culture through new media. I have earned my Master of Theological Studies at Oklahoma Christian University, the same place I earned my Bachelor's degree in Bible with a minor in Communication Studies. I also worked at my alma mater as a Resident Director and Bible TA. I write fiction and nonfiction in a variety of mediums, including poetry, short stories, books, stage plays, academic essays, and devotionals. I also venture out into other mediums, like podcasts and video. My favorite topics of choice to discuss and write about (though always changing) include: creating Christian art, helping people understand the Bible better, Christian identity, theology of social media, use of humor in faith messages, superheroes and theology, and a Christian response to culture. If you want to see his progress, achievements, and appearances sign up for the newsletter so you'll never miss an update! website: Home – Jake Doberenz 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:44 Introducing the Guest: Jake Doberenz 02:43 Jake's Background and Interests 05:56 Jake's Teaching Journey 10:46 Bible Study for Abuse Survivors 13:25 Choosing the Right Bible Translation 18:42 Understanding the Bible Without Knowing Greek or Hebrew 21:34 Basic Rules of Bible Interpretation 25:43 Embracing Uncomfortable Bible Stories 26:47 Using Jesus as a Lens for Interpretation 30:54 The Importance of Community in Bible Study 34:14 Red Flags in Spiritual Leadership 37:02 Recommended Bible Study Resources 41:33 Exploring Different Perspectives 44:58 Connecting with the Speaker 46:29 Closing Prayer and Final Thoughts   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Jake Doberenz [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hey there, everybody. Come on in, set for a spell. How are you guys doing? I appreciate your support in listening to the podcast, and I hope that you are enjoying some really encouraging words and practical things for you to do your own Bible study and read the word of God for yourself. We have a new guest on the show now I'm very familiar with his podcast, creatively Christian. I've been on his podcast. His show has a few different interviewers. And so [00:02:00] Andrea Sandifer, who you guys know that was on the show, she interviewed me on her show. And our guest today, Jake Doberenz, the man behind that podcast, he is a funny guy. He likes to bring humor from the Bible. And I've been reading his blog and following his newsletters. And his Facebook group. So I thought he would be a great addition to the podcast , and I think you're gonna love him. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about him. He has a lot of interest here, so here we go. Jake, Doberenz isn't one thing. He identifies as a polymath, a renaissance man or a multipotentialite. One interest or specialty, can't contain him. So he [00:03:00] says of himself, but enough of the third person. I'm a writer, speaker, minister, and creative thinker, living in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. My most significant role is the founder and president of Theophany Media. A Christian education company dedicated to helping Christians engage with culture through new media. I have earned my Master of Theological studies at Oklahoma Christian University, the same place I earned my bachelor's degree in Bible with a minor in communication studies. I also worked at my alma matter as a resident director and bible ta. I write fiction and nonfiction in a variety of mediums, including poetry, short stories, books, stage plays, academic essays, and [00:04:00] devotionals. I also venture out into other mediums like podcasts and video, my favorite topics of choice to discuss and write about. Although always changing, include creating Christian art, helping people understand the Bible better. Christian identity, theology of social media, use of humor in faith messages, super heroes and theology, any Christian response to culture. So this is gonna be awesome. So I hope that you enjoy my conversation with Jake Doberenz. Please welcome to the show, Jake Doberenz. Thanks for coming on today. Sure thing, anytime. I'm glad to be here. I really enjoyed being on your [00:05:00] podcast, A creatively Christian, and Andrea interviewed me and then she was on my podcast and I follow your Facebook group and get your. Very humorous email newsletter. And so I thought you were the perfect fit to come on to the podcast. And you're a bible geek like me, and you have a different perspective on life. In the Bible, you find humor in the Bible, which a lot of people don't find the Bible very funny. So welcome to the show. Yeah, I'm glad to be here providing some humor and quite possibly even some wisdom and intelligent comments. We'll see if we get to that part. So you haven't been on the podcast before, so. Tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your family. Okay? Yeah. Always a fun question because where do you [00:06:00] start? Where do you end? But yeah. I am in Oklahoma City right now. I'm an Oregon native and got stuck in Oklahoma. Stuck sounds too negative, but I got planted here. That sounds better. I got my bachelor's degree in biblical studies with a minor in communication studies. I have a Master's of Theological studies and for a while I was kind of going down the Bible professor route. That was gonna be my thing. And it's not like completely off the table right now, but it is not my chief kind of path anymore because there are not a lot of jobs in that area and there's a lot of different things there that make it quite challenging. A lot of schooling, a lot of debt for maybe not so much reward, but we'll see what the future brings. I am still flexing my desires to write and teach. That has always been what I wanted to do, even when the subject changed, even when it [00:07:00] was cat psychology or whatever, I always wanted to write and teach and so I'm still doing that in in different ways. I'm certainly still using my degrees, even though I'll be going into teaching middle school geography this year. Ooh, kind of a new adventure. Add some more skills and weird things on my resume. That's kind of how I do it. So geography. Cool. I think that's me. Yeah. Yeah. That's very brave. Middle school, that particular age, did you pick the age group you were teaching or did they just kind of throw you in there? I applied to high school and middle school. I wasn't going to do anybody under middle school and the high school jobs never called me back. And the, I got some different offerings on the middle school side of thing, so I said, okay, that's what you want me to do. God, I will walk into this wilderness. And then they gave me some kind of choices between, and I chose sixth grade specifically, so I'll be with, with sixth graders. [00:08:00] They, uh, we still have some childlike heart and wonder. They're not so jaded like they get when they're a little older, but they're just mature enough where you can start to get a little more serious. So good age. Hmm. I liked sixth grade. It was a good year. We'll be praying for you either way, because that's a lot of work and mm-hmm. But geography's cool. I like Bible geography. Ever since I went to Israel in 2019. How different reading the Bible is when you've been to those places. Have you been to Israel? I haven't. No, I haven't. Yeah. If you're into geography, you would really love going to Israel for obvious reasons, of course, but geography, it just makes the Bible come alive when you've been to the place where Jesus put legion into the herd of pigs and over the cliff. Sure. And I've been to that cliff, and so you can see it now in your head. It's awesome. Or you've been on the Sea of [00:09:00] Galilee and you can actually imagine Jesus walking on the water and because been in the boat. So, yeah, I'm just getting into being interested in geography right now. There you go. Yeah. Cool. What would you say is your particular specialty as far as Bible goes? Yeah. I did my master's thesis on Paul's view of spiritual formation, specifically from one Corinthians chapter three, verse three. Four, just around there. So that's a very specific kind of thing. Most of my training has actually been more on the New Testament side. Specifically Paul, I've done a lot of more academic work with the use of children as a metaphor in the Bible. I've done work with that in both Paul and the Gospels. Sexuality in the New Testament has been something I've kind of explored. [00:10:00] Nowadays though, I have more of theological interests and I'm asking some different kinds of questions. You don't divorce theology from the Bible, but they're just different kinds of questions and different kinds of, and ways and sources for that. But in terms of Bible, yeah, a lot of studying Paul and a lot of thinking about sort of how he makes arguments and specifically like in that thesis, it was all about how he used this metaphor about. Being an infant in Christ, what does all that mean? And how does that reflect how we grow as people? And so I've gone down those kind of rabbit trails a lot my my day. That's really interesting. A Paul's usually a favorite Bible character. Most people, though you can, you never go wrong with the Apostle Paul now. So today we're talking about Bible study for abuse survivors. And reason why we're doing this is because when we've gone through abuse, usually there's some spiritual [00:11:00] abuse involved and we want to distance ourself from God because we've experienced that spiritual abuse and that affects our relationship with God. And a lot of people once they leave or get out of the abuse. Then they're like, okay, I don't wanna read the Bible, I don't wanna pray, and I don't wanna go to church anymore. I don't trust anybody. But I'm trying to encourage on this podcast to come and if you have questions, let's talk about the questions. So, so I've kind of answered my own question, why should we study the Bible for ourselves? But what would you say to that or add to that? Yeah, I think what I would add to that is that, um, one thing that our teachers or pastors or scholars don't have is that they're not you. You are yourself and you come with your experiences and you come [00:12:00] with your own personality and identity, and you are gonna often pick up things that other people might miss, or you're gonna just sort of focus on things more realize as a thread of a theme or something like that. We, we shouldn't come to the Bible biased necessarily, or with too many preconceived notions. 'cause then the text starts to say what we want it to say. That's not what I'm saying. But we do bring ourselves to the text and we have to admit that like, I'm not reading this in a vacuum. I'm reading this because of who I am and what I've experienced and all these things like that. And I think that's really powerful. And I think the Bible is, it's strong enough to take it. Like it's not about pulling whatever meaning you want from it, like I said, but it is about seeing things that are hidden in this multi-layered onion like text here that has so much stuff in it that we can't expect. Even a really smart [00:13:00] guy to just know everything. So yeah, we gotta study the Bible for ourselves. We gotta do our own digging and our own reading. See what we can find. Yeah, I like that answer. Bringing yourself to the table that's. Different than what somebody else would bring to the table. So let's start with something everybody asks about. When it comes to Bible study, you go to the bookstore and you're trying to pick out a Bible, and there's a gazillion different Bible versions out there, and too many versions, in my opinion. Which one do I pick? Does it matter? At the end of the day, it probably doesn't matter. There are those that are better than others, and I'm the term better here. You can use that in different ways. I'm using the term better as in. More accurate to the text, although, hey, we are translating language here. [00:14:00] Translation is an art, not a science, which makes us a little uncomfortable. We can still get that meaning across. You're a, you're an artist and you're a creative. You can still communicate accurately and faithfully even through a song or something like that. And so in the same way, translation is a little bit of an art form and there are people that have to choose certain words, and I think this means that. So yeah, there are some that are more quote unquote scholarly and others that are more paraphrased, like the message, or it's something like the amplified Bible that is just trying to sort of squeeze some more possible meaning out there by becoming like glorified the Sorut. So you got some different options. Most readings are probably not gonna hurt you, at least. As long as you understand like kind of what's going on here. I know in the past the King James has had the word unicorns in it and that that threw some people off and then later we're like, actually we should have translated that. Like Gazelle was not supposed to be translated unicorn. So [00:15:00] okay, we can get some things here that might throw some people off, but as long as we kind of give some grace to the translators, something like the King James is older and we have some different data. We have some older manuscripts that we're pulling from now. So yeah, it's gonna be a little bit more closer to what the originals were saying kind of thing. So yeah, there are those considerations, but I don't think you're gonna make or break your faith if you read the ESV over the NRSV or something like that. Yeah, well I came from a camp that, uh, they were very definitive in what Bible you should read and which ones you should not read and Sure. And they were very dogmatic in that I've changed my stance since then. Because I've actually dug into that sort of thing that okay, you, so you're saying that most of the mainline translations out there, we will still get the main [00:16:00] point of what Bio was trying to say. Right. Yeah, I don't know any that are too left field and crazy or something like that. There are versions, like, I could be wrong about this, but I think the Jehovah's Witness has versions of the Bible that seem to play a little fast and loose with some things and have cut out some different stuff. So obviously I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for Christians. The only other thing I would say is make sure a bunch of different people were involved. Most translations are. Large groups of people. And then you have things like I mentioned the message that Eugene Peterson did, it was just him, but he wasn't necessarily trying to make a definitive thing. That's more of a paraphrase translation, which is like a devotional rather than something to study. So there are just different uses for all these different things. There are, I could go into the weeds. My dad used to own a Christian bookstore. Oh. And so you have your thought for thought translations and then you have your word for word. And [00:17:00] some people think word for word is better because it's more accurate. But the thing, the problem is the Bible might literally say X, but when we translate that word to today, it makes no sense because language is weird like that. And then so the thought for thought is going to be more of an interpretation, but they're trying to say, okay, but what this is trying to say is this and, and here's a thought that you can digest and that makes sense to you. So it's just kind of what you want, but thanks to the internet. In fact, on another screen here, I have pulled up Bible gateway.com. That's what I use a lot. You can look through all sorts of different translations and compare and contrast. If I really wanted to study with more than one, it's legal in most states, so go for it. It's funny you mentioned the message because that was my first Bible when I got saved. My okay friend that I met in high school, I told her I had gotten saved and I didn't have a Bible, and she gave me the message, which [00:18:00] was her Bible, and I loved it. Oh yeah. I highlighted that thing and Oh yeah. And I just tore it up with underlining and I couldn't wait to read it. And then of course you get to Bible college and they tear it out of your hands, so yeah. But yeah, I like the ESV today. I have. A really nice archeology study Bible I bought and I've, I've read the King James most of my Christian life. And switching to another translation was really eye-opening. All this different stuff that I hadn't seen before just popped out, like I didn't know the Bible said that. Wow. It's pretty neat. So along the same lines, do we have to be a Greek and Hebrew scholar to understand the Bible? I hope not because I struggled through Greek and barely made that alive, and so languages are not my strong [00:19:00] suit. Uh, but I think the answer is of course, no. You don't have to be. It depends on what kind of study you're doing, and I probably should have mentioned that earlier, but there's a way to look at the Bible in an academic, scholarly way, and there are some Christians that. Think that's wrong or bad? I don't think it's bad. It's just one way to look at it. When I am in scholarship, when I'm writing this college paper, I am, I have to kind of slice and dice it and I'm doing a work that an atheist could do. It's that kind of work. But then there's another way to look at the Bible that is much more pastorally or for spiritual formation, the kind of thing that treats the text as sacred that an atheist can't do. So if you're doing the academic work, it really helps to know the words because you're trying to get as precise as possible and getting into there. But luckily for us, other people have done the work for us and we have these English translations, so woo. You don't need to know Hebrew and Coin a Greek and [00:20:00] a little bit of Aramic and like Daniel or whatever. Like we don't have to know that because somebody else has done the work for us. And I mentioned already like. There's a lot of people involved in a Bible translation, not just one guy. It's, a lot of people have done this work and they've argued and yelled at each other and come to some conclusions to say, this is the best we can do right now. This is what we got. So, yeah, we don't have to, we don't have to be language PS so, woo. Lucky. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm a language geek. I love languages. Personally, I speak two languages besides English, but I haven't taken any Greek or, or Hebrew, maybe someday, but they didn't cover that in my Bible college. But it's good that we already have the tools online that, hey, this is a translation for that word in. There's really no, no real argument about it is there along mainline denominations. Yeah. Most people probably aren't gonna tell you. You have to know all those languages unless somebody there. There are groups of people that would say [00:21:00] the only inspired text of the Bible is the actual original Greek and Hebrew. And so our English translations are not inspired. But that's a minority view. That's not super common. Yeah. Yeah. The most people can understand. The inspiration still comes through, even when it's translating different languages. The word of gods for the whole world, not just those that can speak actually dead languages that nobody speaks today like Latin. Yeah. So now we're gonna get into the nitty gritty here. Okay. When we are sitting down with our Bible and we're deciding to. Study a passage of scripture or maybe a book. What are some basic rules of interpretation? Now we use the fancy big word hermeneutics, but like the basic ones that you really shouldn't ignore in order to. Do a proper Bible study. This is one that gets definitely drilled [00:22:00] into in Bible school and in other contexts, but it's that actual, it's a word context like context is key. Context is king, and one of the best things we can do is zoom out. So if we're looking at a particular scripture. Like one verse, we zoom out to the chapter. Those headings or whatever aren't like God inspired or whatever, but they're helpful to kind of see what the flow of things are. Then we can zoom out to the book level and sometimes zoom out to the biblical level and things like that. But that is always key. Sometimes we get into trouble thinking that the Bible is just like, the whole thing is like Proverbs, where everything's just disconnected and you got these good one-liners and they're fun and they're good zingers, but most of it is some kind of story or, and Paul, I mentioned that being some of my background, Paul's letters are arguments they build on top of each other, and so you can see if we're trying to look at something wild like. One [00:23:00] Corinthians 14 or something, we can understand it because by just kind of going a little backwards and Oh, okay. So that's always really important. And a lot of times authors in the Bible will also tell us kind of their themes and tell us what they really want us to get across. The gospel of John, for instance, is written so that we may believe Luke talks about writing in a, an orderly account of things. So we have some of these statements that if we zoom out a little bit, oh, okay, we can make sense of this in light of that. And so different things like that. But we could go all day into the hermeneutics and then the other fancy word, X of Jesus and that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, a tool anybody can use is something I learned in elementary school when there was a hard word. It was called rat read around the text. Read around the text. Ooh, that's the acronym there. And that just helps us understand, wait, what is going on? What does Paul mean when he says this? Why is [00:24:00] this guy saying this in judges? Let's take a look. What else is going on here? So it's just a great tool that anybody can use be if they can just zoom out a little bit and read the rest of the Bible and the rest of the passage. Everybody gives a different answer to that question. Now, obviously when we read the Bible, we come upon these passages or some of the stories that are either difficult to understand or it's a topic that we don't wanna deal with. It's really hard to swallow. Like a lot of times it's the genocide passages, of course. Mm-hmm. And or similar things like that. What do we do when we encounter those passages? Yeah. There are also passages that are sometimes called, and the genocide fits into this, but passages called texts of terror. A lot of passages about different abuse situation, and [00:25:00] I won't go into all of those, but I'm sure a lot of us can come up with some things that mm-hmm. Can be triggering in the Bible that seem just really messed up and stuff like that. So I think what's important, first of all is we recognize the, the gut feeling, the awkwardness talk to the beginning about how I see humor in the Bible and I do, I think there are some things in the Bible that we should laugh at. It's actually hilarious. Tell us about what Jonah gets swallowed by a big fish. That's funny. You should be laughing. And it's hilarious that he wants this city destroyed and he's supposed to be a prophet of God and he's not doing his job description and stuff like that. So like. When it's funny, we should laugh and when it's not funny, when it's uncomfortable, we should be okay being uncomfortable. I, I remember when I did college ministry for a time, we talked about the story of, oh man, I can't remember if it's Eli, I think it's Elijah. [00:26:00] And when they make fun of him for being bald and he calls these, she bears to attack these 40 youths, and he, this kid would kid could not get over it. He's like, why is this in the Bible? This is ridiculous. And I just tried to help him. Yeah, let's feel that first. Let's feel that, oh boy, we got some emotions here. So step one, I think it's totally okay to feel those things and then we can do some digging. Again, it's that zooming out. Let's look at the context here. Let's look what's going on there. A lot of times I think some of these texts of terror or uncomfortable texts, um. Sometimes they're not as bad when we look at it through maybe a historical lens or something, but sometimes we can't just justify them really nice and neatly, like some of the stuff about genocide. So ultimately, I have to go back to Jesus because. Jesus is the ultimate expression of God. It is the best [00:27:00] lens into the divine that we've ever seen. It's through this person of Jesus. And so sometimes we got to use our Jesus magnifying glass and look over the scripture and say, that's awkward. I don't like that very much. This makes me, this triggers me. This is, uh, but we put Jesus over and say, but through Christ, we don't have to live like that. We can recognize that there. There are plenty of examples of what not to do in the Bible. Jesus calls us to a different way and Jesus shows us that some things that maybe people thought were really godly and divine at certain points were not. So at the end of the day when things make us uncomfortable, I say feel it. But then ultimately, let's just go back. What does Jesus say? And if Jesus words are kind of. Don't seem to jive with this other crazy stuff going on here. Let's just, let's follow Jesus over some of this, [00:28:00] this other uncomfortable things. Hmm. So it's probably not a satisfying answer, but that's kind of like the point, like we try too hard sometimes to wrap everything in a pretty bow, but sometimes we just can't. With the Bible, the Bible is complicated and that's what makes it powerful. It's not always so neat and tidy and doesn't always make you feel good. It is a like Christ. It is both human, fully human and fully divine. And in that there's some awkward tension. There are some, there are human emotions and human things that that bleed through the divine pages of scripture. I appreciate the honest answer and yeah, I think that was a great answer. It was just reading through the patriarchs and wow, you just wrap your head around how much they messed up. And that's not how God wanted us to live. That's just an example of God just lets [00:29:00] everybody see how these people messed up. But still, God used them in a mighty way. God still gave them grace and forgiveness and love and mercy. I was just on Twitter and that's a dangerous place is Christian Twitter. Oh my goodness. And there was a big thread about some people, they didn't believe that Jesus was the same God as the God of the Old Testament. They cut the line because they thought Jesus over here in the New Testament, his attribute seems so different than. The God of the Old Testament. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that was an interesting concept. That's how they dealt with those horrible stories. I'm just gonna just trust in Jesus and just believe in Jesus and throw everything else away. Yeah. That's a heresy in the second century that, um, yeah. You know, unfortunately haven't quite gotten rid of completely, but is that's what that's called still alive and, [00:30:00] yeah. Oh, that's what you call it. Okay. There's your little fun little historical theology trivia, but yeah, there's probably a word for it. But that goes into my next question is how do you study the Bible and read it and make sure that you're not slipping into some heretical teaching, because I personally know some people that they believe some stuff that's way off base that nobody else. And mainline Christianity believes in, but they're like quoting Bible verses and taking them outta context. How do we avoid going down that path? Yeah, yeah. I had a youth minister who used to joke that if you wanted to, he could justify kicking babies across the room from scripture. Like that was just his wild example because yeah, people can kind of justify the whole gambit of things. So I think now we talked about why it's important to study the Bible for yourself. [00:31:00] At the same time though, I think this living, breathing scripture. Is something that we must read through community. You can do your own work, do your own prep, but ultimately the Bible belongs to all of us. And so we need to read in community. And that can mean your pastors and teachers and your scholars. It can also mean your neighbor and your friend and your kids and your mom and your cousin from a couple states away. But it can also mean dead people, not like seance or whatever, but like, um-ing, you know, read these old preachers and read the church fathers and the church mothers and like, we got 2000 years of Christian history here. There's some wild stuff, but there's some good stuff too. So I say we read scripture in community and you come to your own conclusions. Don't just copy paste whatever Mr. X, Y, Z says, but. What do they [00:32:00] think? And when we start looking at, oh, Christians have kind of seemed to think this for a long time, probably a direction we should lean in. I don't know. I guess people could be wrong, but the way the spirit works I think is a lot of times through community. And it's a way to check, it's a checks and balance for ourselves. So I think that sometimes we can get a little, a little wild with our own interpretations, but we bring in other people. What do you think? Did you see this too? Is this accurate? Is this, does this fit in with historical context of first century Palestine? Or whatever kind of questions you want to ask community. So that's flesh and blood people, but that's also books and podcasts and all sorts of things. I just think we're made to be together. And honestly, when I studied Paul's view of spiritual formation for my thesis, I didn't get to dive into it too much, but what I kept coming across is spiritual formation is not a. You on your own [00:33:00] kind of thing. It is something that happens with people who are this great cloud of witnesses that is cheering you on and it's helping you out. So I think that's a great way to kind of check, check ourselves, and then of course, use your brain. Let's be logical here that scripture probably not actually talking about America because it was written 3000 years ago. I don't know. Thank you. Um, so, so stuff like that, we gotta use our brains. Yeah. I like when you talk about community, because I think, and I've seen this before people go off the rails, is that they're isolating themselves. Mm-hmm. They don't wanna go to church because they don't trust, they don't trust people that they've been hurt. But even if we can't drag ourselves to church just yet in our healing process, yeah. There are other ways to create community and checks and balances. So that's a really good point. We really don't want [00:34:00] to be that guy that started his own denomination on a couple bible verses. Yeah, we got plenty of denominations. I think we're set for a little bit, so let's just chill out for now. Yeah, that's crazy. So like if we're in a community, we're under our Bible teacher or a pastor or Sunday school class, what would be like a red flag that would put your antennas up? Hey, you may wanna check this out for this preacher teacher saying is not a good thing. Are there any like red flags that you would look for? I think arrogance is definitely a big red flag. Ooh, good one. And that is how you get into spiritual, spiritually abusive situations. Definitely. And what I mean by arrogance is people that are not willing to be corrected, not willing to admit the wrong, not willing to learn. I was privileged to have professors where I was getting my Bible degrees. People with [00:35:00] PhDs from the prestigious British universities who would listen to student comments and be like, that's really interesting. Or, heard it like that. Tell me more about that. And one of my Hebrew Bible professors spoke like nine languages. Most of those are dead ones. And still he's curious to know what these 20-year-old college students are thinking. Which is wild because he is way smarter than us. But he is. These guys were adopting this posture of, I can learn from anybody here. I want your perspective. And I could be wrong. We gotta have some things where we have a firm foundation and where we don't sway. We absolutely have to have those. There are some people these days that I think sort of lean too heavily into the wishy-washy. It depends on the day, what I'm feeling, cafeteria style Christianity. We can't do that. But we also can't go over here where it's, I figured it out when I was 30 years old, when I was 40 years old, and now I'm like, [00:36:00] done. I'm done learning. Got it right. I to be the only one to get it right. And that's how denominations start, right? Ooh, everybody else got it wrong all the time. Now I'm right. So that's dangerous. So let's learn from people who are themselves. Learners who are willing to be challenged and to ask questions and wanna know your take on things. I know from being in ministry settings that oftentimes I am the guy with the more Bible degrees than most people in the room. But then there'll be these 70-year-old church ladies who have lived this and they've been in the Bible their whole life. I can learn from them. Mm-hmm. They have something to say, even though they've never read the text in Greek. They have something to add to the conversation. Mm-hmm. So we need to be learners. I love that. That is so awesome and so very true. The Holy Spirit speaks to each of us individually and gives us different [00:37:00] lessons and we can share those lessons. Now, you as a scholarly person, you must have some favorite resources that you use to study the bible. Can you recommend some specific resources that are maybe easy to use? Yeah, there's a couple websites, Bible gateway, I mentioned that already. They have. Some free commentaries and bible encyclopedias and things kind of on the sidebar there. So as you're looking to scripture, you could glorify and study Bible or have access to chunks from different commentaries. And for a while, while I was doing some more preaching, I actually did the paid, there's a kind of a paid version that it was like five bucks a month or something really cheap like that. It just got access to more things so I can have the scripture here and then all my resources next to it. And that was handy. Bible hub.com is also another one. [00:38:00] Um, that one's especially good if you do wanna look at the language stuff, knowing that you're not a scholar, you can say, but what is that Greek word? And you can click on it and it will show you the definitions, show you other places in scripture it's used. You can kind of get a feel for that. So that's a really good one for people who are not, who don't know the languages or. Like me who always needed help with my Greek homework or something like that. So yeah, those come to mind. But man, like we are, we at our fingertips. There's a lot of good stuff out there. A lot of bad stuff, no doubt. But there are podcasts and all sorts of books and there's just, there's a lot of good stuff there. Wouldn't even know where to begin, just sort of thinking broadly. But I think Bible gateway, Bible hub, easy. Anybody can access those for free. And you don't necessarily need a giant library or really expensive commentary sets 'cause they're really expensive. Yeah. That's why my parents get me one commentary for my birthday and [00:39:00] for Christmas each year. And so in 50 years I'll have the full set or whatever. That's not true. That's, it'll actually probably be. I can't do the math however it takes to get 66 books. But anyway. Wow. All I had in bible college that we were allowed to have is Matthew Henry commentary, which is kind of on the dry side. Yeah. Most Bible professors would pass out hearing you say that. It's not bad stuff, but bad, but it's not, it's not easy to read it's thing, let's just say. Yeah. And we were allowed to read Weirs, BE'S books. It's a pretty good series about where I came from. John MacArthur's commentaries were like hearsay. Oh, okay. The Baptist didn't like the, at least the churches that I was in, they didn't like MacArthur's stuff, but, and I had the actual strong concordance. I still own that's, yeah, sure. So sort of a free way to get that, besides if you don't want to get a giant [00:40:00] volume. Yeah. I like to read the physical books too. Sure. Nothing, not knocking the physical. But yeah, if people are on a budget, yeah, people are on a budget and you can't go and buy those big, huge coffee table books. Or if you're near a Christian university, see if you can get a library card that's, they have tons of stuff. I can walk in there and there are a whole shelf of like Genesis commentaries or whatever. It could be information overload. But also I can, I'll pick up a couple different volumes of different perspectives and I'll read what they each have to say about the verse or chapter I'm dealing with and I can kind of synthesize a conclusion. And that's how you do it. Yeah. I'll also mention, I, we were allowed to. Listen on the radio, Jay Vernon McGee and yeah, he was definitely expository. He [00:41:00] would go verse by verse and go through the entire Bible verse by verse, which I thought was really good. And I don't agree with everything he said, but that's the way I learned a lot of stuff was through verse by verse radio program back in the day. Mm. I'm dating myself, aren't I? It's all good here. All good. No, we talked a lot about a bunch of different stuff. Is there anything about Bible study that we didn't talk about that you would like to mention? I know there's so much, uh, yeah, I just touched on it a little bit, but I kind of wanna bring it back. Look at different views than yours. If you are really charismatic, then look at something that's not quite charismatic, or if you are. I won't go. I'll skip all those differences. You know what? You are read some of the stuff that's a little different. Stuff that challenges you. That's how we grow. That's how we grow, [00:42:00] is to hear something a little different. And the thing is, you're not required to believe it. Right. You can just read it and at least know what they're saying. I know in my Christian upbringing, and not necessarily I was intentional, but I only knew my side of the argument. Or if I knew somebody else's argument, it was this straw man version that was just not accurate. And then I, you go to the big wide world and be like, oh wait, there are lots of different views. And those people are actually smart and they have things to say about this, but somebody else is the opposite and they're also a smart person. What's going on? It's just good to expose ourselves to different things. In most cases we could, we, you can choose your own boundaries and things like that. Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean if you're studying something in the Old Testament, you have to read the Jewish and the Muslim and the Mormon view of what. It doesn't mean you have to go there, but just check out some different things. Have your favorite commentaries. Do it, but every once in a while [00:43:00] peek into your, your local heretic and see what they have to say. I dunno, maybe not a heretic, somebody who's a little different. You, you, your istic. Yeah. Our last guest was talking about Calvinism and stuff, but yeah, doesn, excellent suggestion because I definitely was in my own camp for many years until I got out of my abusive situation and started looking into other views and I have since changed nothing major. I didn't change any major views, but I realized that okay, there are other Godly people. Now I see they can use scripture to defend their position too. And there's a little bit of wiggle room in there for sure. Sure. For different viewpoints. I went and did a study and looked at somebody else's view on a tertiary argument. Sure. Tertiary doctrine. It's not a doctrine of the faith, but [00:44:00] something that's very important and it's like, okay, I'm not gonna be judgmental. And that was hard for me to change my viewpoint. Yeah, yeah. But they gave me really great scriptural evidence. So yeah, that's kind of a sideline, but you made excellent point. But anyway, I appreciate you sharing all this valuable information and your view, viewpoint, and it's fascinating. Everybody has different answers for these questions. I've asked everybody the same questions. Right. And they're all giving me different answers, which I think that's very helpful. Oh yeah. Yeah. Very helpful. Yeah, getting people exposed to different things and again, like I am me and you are you, and we're different. And that's the point. Like we all come together with our different focuses and our different backgrounds and knowledge, and together we are the body of Christ. Amen. And that's beautiful. So tell the folks [00:45:00] how people can connect with you and you have resources and maybe if they wanna play stump the Bible teacher, they can email you. Yeah, you can find that all about me@jakedobern.com. D-O-B-E-R-E-N-Z as in zebra. And that's kind of my home base on the interwebs. If you do jake dovers.com/email, you can get on my email list that was mentioned earlier where I talk about. Funny stories from my life that have spiritual points, and I bring out spiritual points from that. And yeah, you can definitely contact me through social media or email, and that's all on my website there. So I'll let you track me down and tell me how wrong I am and all of that kind of stuff. That's fun. It comes with the territory, so totally okay with that. And then lastly, I do a bunch of work with Christian creatives, with Fiani [00:46:00] Media, and as was mentioned, I produce the Creatively Christian podcast. So I would love for you to check that out if that's kind of your thing, if that's your area. Yeah. You guys have a real great variety of guests on that show. It's not just one particular kind of art. You guys represent a lot of different ones, which is fun. Oh yeah. And we're trying to get more variety all the time. Awesome. Now. I don't usually have guests pray on the show, but would you pray for our listeners in their journey in the scriptures? Of course. Let's go ahead and pray. Heavenly God, we come to you in prayer on this podcast episode and we ask that whoever's listening now in the future, in a couple years, where wherever we are, that, that we can be receptive to how you speak to us through scripture and through our [00:47:00] communities that help us see scripture. Let the spirit guide us as we dive into this sacred but sometimes confusing and complicated documents. Lord, I ask that you give us the wisdom to be able to rightly divide your word and to remain faithful even when our own preferences might wanna lean in a different direction. Lord, thank you so much for the ministry of this podcast. We pray that people continue to have healing and continue to find themselves in a better place, both in the world and with you spiritually. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Thank you so much for coming on the show. God bless you. Sure thing. God bless you. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful [00:48:00] to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

Trash Tuesday LIVE! January 28th at the Comedy Store. Tickets on sale now! https://www.showclix.com/event/trash-tuesday-2026-january Andrea Jin and Rudy Jules are here in the New Year. We dive into childhood trauma, Andrea getting passed at The Comedy Store, Filipino funerals, and brand-new Titanic intel you definitely weren’t taught in school. Plus, we test our sanity in our very first Trash Tuesday game of Guess Who featuring some ICONIC characters. BTS, BONUS CONTENT AND MORE! Only on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TrashTuesdayPodcast Thank you to out sponsors: Thank you Better Help! www.BetterHelp.com/TRASHTUESDAY Thank you bilt! www.joinbilt.com/TRASHTUESDAY Thank you Hers! www.forhers.com/TRASHTUESDAY *Listen to Esther's New Solo Pod!* https://www.esthersgrouptherapy.substack.com *Visit Ebb Ocean Club & Holiday Shop* https://www.ebboceanclub.com/ for Khalyla’s reef safe and biodegradable hair products! FOLLOW TRASH ON SOCIALS: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itstrashtuesday Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrashtuesday MORE ESTHER:TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@esthermonster Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esthermonster/ MORE KHALYLA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/khalamityk/ Tigerbelly Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCIyIoM_Nd8HtY19fuR_ov2A PRODUCTION:Studio Ten42: https://www.instagram.com/studioten42/ Guy Robinson: https://www.instagram.com/grobfps/ Arielle Jade (Editor): https://www.instagram.com/jade.rabbit.cce/ Elisa Hernandez Kohler: https://www.instagram.com/ellie.lianna/ Megan Clements: https://www.instagram.com/egggymeg/

The artist Loribelle Spirovski on her unusual childhood in the Philippines, meeting her father for the first time at 7 years old, and making her way as one of Australia's most exciting young painters.Loribelle Spirovski grew up in the Philippines, with her mum and her extended Filipino family.Her Serbian father, whom she had never met, was in Australia, driving taxis and waiting for the visa that would allow him to bring Loribelle and her mum to join him.Loribelle didn't meet her father until she was 7 years old, and when she saw him for the first time at Manila Airport, she was shocked by how hairy his arms were and the way he smelled just like she did.Eventually, the family was properly reunited in Sydney, Australia, where Loribelle had to navigate family and cultural ties, where she found love and where she made her way as one of Australia's most exciting young artists.This episode of Conversations explores painting, creativity, writing, books, love, marriage, Simon Tedeschi, William Barton, the Archibald Prize, art education, art teaching, chronic pain, chronic injury, identity, memoir, family dynamics, origin stories, refugees, Serbia, former Yugoslavia, music, piano, singing, language, mothers, fathers, long-distance relationships.White Hibiscus is published by Upswell.You can see some of Loribelle's art at her website and on her Instagram page.In July, 2025 Loribelle won the People's Choice Award for the 2025 Archibald Prize for a portrait she painted with her fingers of Kalkadunga musician William Barton.To binge even more great episodes of the ‘Conversations podcast' with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you'll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, singers, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.

Jeanelle Teves is the Chief Commercial Officer of Bugaboo North America, leading U.S. and Canadian growth for the premium parenting solutions brand. A corporate leader, content creator and sought after speaker Jeanelle shares her simple yet transformative approaches to brand growth, career, parenting and modern leadership. With over a decade of international leadership experience at Nike in Europe and New York, she most recently served as General Manager of Nike's Women's division, driving its rise as the top apparel brand for women and teens in North America. A champion for women and parents in the workplace, Jeanelle has launched inclusive product lines such as dance and yoga, led new category collaborations such as the first its kind luxury Bugaboo collaboration with Kith, and modernized employee policies at Bugaboo to prioritize parental leave, flexible work, and employee wellness. Jeanelle holds a B.A. from Loyola Marymount University and an M.B.A. from the European University in Barcelona. A first-generation American with Filipino heritage, she has worked across four countries, bringing a global perspective to each project she takes on. She lives in New York City with her husband and two young children.Shop WeNatal at https://wenatal.com/thebigmove for a free month's supply of WeNatal's Magnesium (worth $35) with your first subscriptionFollow Jeanelle here:  https://www.instagram.com/jeanelleteves Follow Jeanelle on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanelleteves/Check out Work Lunch, which is a career masterclass series for corporate professionals looking to grow in their work and personal lives.Follow The Big Move Podcast hereFollow Host Em here

For Patreon subscriber Mo Martinez!  LOVE TRIVIA WITH BUDDS? CHECK OUT THE MNEMONIC MEMORY PODCAST!  "Knowledge is rooted in memory—listen to The Mnemonic Memory Podcast today." http://www.themnemonictreepodcast.com/ Fact of the Day: Swans in Wells, Somerset were trained to ring a bell for food in the 1850s and the tradition continues to this day. Triple Connections: Downing, Wall, Fleet THE FIRST TRIVIA QUESTION STARTS AT 01:37 SUPPORT THE SHOW MONTHLY, LISTEN AD-FREE FOR JUST $1 A MONTH: www.Patreon.com/TriviaWithBudds INSTANT DOWNLOAD DIGITAL TRIVIA GAMES ON ETSY, GRAB ONE NOW!  GET A CUSTOM EPISODE FOR YOUR LOVED ONES:  Email ryanbudds@gmail.com Theme song by www.soundcloud.com/Frawsty Bed Music:  "EDM Detection Mode" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ http://TriviaWithBudds.com http://Facebook.com/TriviaWithBudds http://Instagram.com/ryanbudds Book a party, corporate event, or fundraiser anytime by emailing ryanbudds@gmail.com or use the contact form here: https://www.triviawithbudds.com/contact SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL MY AMAZING PATREON SUBSCRIBERS INCLUDING:   Mollie Dominic Vernon Heagy Brian Clough Sarah Nassar Nathalie Avelar Becky and Joe Heiman Natasha raina Waqas Ali leslie gerhardt Skilletbrew Bringeka Brooks Martin Yves Bouyssounouse Sam Diane White Youngblood Sarah Lemons Trophy Husband Trivia Rye Josloff Lynnette Keel Nathan Stenstrom Lillian Campbell Jerry Loven Ansley Bennett Gee Jamie Greig Jeremy Yoder Adam Jacoby rondell Adam Suzan Chelsea Walker Tiffany Poplin Bill Bavar Sarah Dan  Katelyn Turner Keiva Brannigan Keith Martin Sue First Steve Hoeker Jessica Allen Michael Anthony White Lauren Glassman Brian Williams Henry Wagner Brett Livaudais Linda Elswick Carter A. Fourqurean KC Khoury Tonya Charles  Justly Maya Brandon Lavin Kathy McHale Chuck Nealen Courtney French Nikki Long Mark Zarate Laura Palmer  JT Dean Bratton Kristy Erin Burgess Chris Arneson Trenton Sullivan Jen and Nic Michele Lindemann Ben Stitzel Michael Redman Timothy Heavner Jeff Foust Richard Lefdal Myles Bagby Jenna Leatherman Albert Thomas Kimberly Brown Tracy Oldaker Sara Zimmerman Madeleine Garvey Jenni Yetter JohnB Patrick Leahy Dillon Enderby James Brown Christy Shipley Alexander Calder Ricky Carney Paul McLaughlin Casey OConnor Willy Powell Robert Casey Rich Hyjack Matthew Frost Brian Salyer Greg Bristow Megan Donnelly Jim Fields Mo Martinez Luke Mckay Simon Time Feana Nevel

Hey everyone! We're back from our holiday break for our first podcast of 2026 and we're finally discussing our December 2025 Book Club Pick Blackmail and Bibingka by Mia P. Manansala. A X'mas themed cozy mystery (but actually a story about family and Filipino noms). At this point, we're kind of murder mystery connoisseurs so this was the perfect end of year treat for us. Fun fact, we did an author chat with the author back in 2021 for her first book so we're excited to come back to this world for the holidays!Books & Boba is a podcast dedicated to reading and featuring books by Asian and Asian American authorsSupport the Books & Boba Podcast by:Joining our Patreon to receive exclusive perksPurchasing books at our bookshopRocking our Books & Boba merchFollow our hosts:Reera Yoo (@reeraboo)Marvin Yueh (@marvinyueh)Follow us:InstagramTwitterGoodreadsFacebookThe Books & Boba January 2026 pick is Reef by Romesh GunesekeraThis podcast is part of Potluck: An Asian American Podcast Collective

Vancouver politics were busy in 2025 and with an October 2026 municipal election approaching, things won't be quieting down any time soon. Redeye collective member Ian Mass brings us his New Year's City Beat report.

Dom Magwili is a prolific actor, writer, and educator who has graced his presence on stage and screen for years. Most importantly Dom has played a role in our lives when he guided Kat as  she was PCN coordinator at UCLA and gave Elaine a boost of confidence when she was an emcee for the...

Possible signs of life in landfill collapse in the Philippines. AP correspondent Donna Warder reports.

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Musician, Gabe Bondoc speaks to The Cheatcoders right before his show in Sydney, while eating Filipino Gelato from Kariton. They talk about touring, dad jokes and not wanting his daughter to date musicians.

Think about the histories of your family or memories from your past. What if you recounted them with a dash of magic? What happens when we infuse our stories on film with some magical realism? Tonight's edition of APEX Express features three filmmakers who created magical realism short films centering AAPI women. Listen to directors Cami Kwan, Dorothy Xiao, and Rachel Leyco discuss their films and experiences behind the scenes with host Isabel Li. Cami Kwan: Website | Instagram | Seed & Spark Dorothy Xiao: Website | Instagram  Rachel Leyco: Website | Instagram   Transcript 00:01 [INTRO] Isabel: You're tuned into Apex Express on KPFA. Tonight's edition is all about stories. Think about the histories of your family or memories from your past. Now, what if you recounted them with a dash of magic? What happens when we infuse our stories on film with some magical realism? I'm your host, Isabel Li, and today we have three very special guests, Cami Kwan, Dorothy Chow, and Rachel Leyco. All of them are AAPI filmmakers who received the Julia S. Gouw Short Film Challenge grant from the Coalition of Asian Pacifics and Entertainment and have created short films featuring AAPI stories with magical realism. My first guest of the night is Cami Kwan, a Chinese-American director specializing in stop-motion animation who directed the short film Paper Daughter.  Hi Cami, welcome to APEX Express!  Cami: Hello, thank you so much for having me. Isabel: How do you identify and what communities do you consider yourself a part of?  Cami: So I identify as a queer Asian American woman um and I am a descendant of immigrants, of Chinese immigrants. um Then the communities that I am part of, part of the queer community, part of the Los Angeles community, part of the Chinese American and Asian American community, part of the mixed race community and part of the stop-motion animation and independent artist community.  Isabel: I'm so excited to talk to you about your upcoming short film, Paper Daughter, a gothic stop-motion animated Chinese-American fairy tale about a young woman grappling with the guilt of using the identity of a deceased girl to immigrate to the US via Angel Island in 1926, which is such a fascinating concept. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about how you came up with this story and the historical specificity behind it?  Cami: Absolutely, yeah. So like I mentioned, I'm the child of immigrants, descendants of immigrants rather. So my great grandparents immigrated to the US from China. My great grandfather came over in 1916 and my great grandma came over in 1926. And so I've always grown up knowing the story of Angel Island and knowing the story about the paper sons and paper daughters who had to find any way into the United States that they could. And so they were forced to, you know, take on the identities of other people. And those stories have always stuck with me, you know, like it's very personal. Angel Island means a lot to me and my family. And just the extreme measures that people have always had to take just for the chance at a better life have always been really meaningful to learn about. just the like, I'll use romances in like the art movement, like romantic. It's very romantic and kind of fairy tale-ish, the idea of having to take on a new identity and pretend to be somebody that you're not. And often those identities would be people who had passed away, and then those families had then sold those identities or given those identities to new people. And so it's so interesting the idea of being like the last person to know somebody so deeply, but you'll never get to meet them and you'll never be able to thank them or repay what they sacrificed for your future. And that's kind of how I feel as a descendant of immigrants. The sacrifice that my family made for me was made so long ago that there's no way for me to ever pay it back. And I didn't really get a say in whether I received that sacrifice or not. And I think a lot of descendants of immigrants kind of have to struggle with this. What does it mean for us to be given this new chance at the cost of somebody who came before us? And so that's all of that kind of rolled up into this 14-minute film. Isabel: You describe your film as being in a gothic style? Can you describe what this looks like and why gothic?  Cami: The subject matter is just so naturally gothic. It's dealing a lot with death and a lot with guilt and those big capital R romantic subjects and stuff. My day job, my day-to-day job is working in stop-motion animation directing mostly like children's series and mostly toy related stuff. And so I spent so much of my time in the happy brighter like birthday party storyline kind of like space. But what really made me want to be a filmmaker in the first place were all these like heavier themes, these bigger themes, films by Guillermo del Toro and like Tim Burton and Henry Selig and Hayao Miyazaki and all of those kind of have this like gothic edge to them. And so that's like a story that I've been a type of story I've been wanting to tell for about a decade now.  Isabel: Stylistically, how does this show up in your film? So I imagine darker colors or do you have a visual like preview for us?  Cami: it is a little bit in the darker color space, but it's still very colorful despite all that. It's moody more so than dark, I would say. um We have a lot of like light and dark themes, a lot of like shadow. stuff and um a lot of magical realism, which is where that fairy tale aspect kind of comes in, because you're dealing with things that are so abstract, like guilt and sacrifice and wearing the identity of somebody else, that there's no literal way to convey that. Well, there are literal ways to convey that, but none of those literal ways I feel fully convey the emotional weight of everything. And so we've gone in this very magical realism space where people are tearing information out of these booklets that contain information about the person they're supposed to be and creating these paper masks out of them. And so yeah, there's this whole like magical aspect that tends to be kind of darker. There's imagery of just like being consumed by the identity that you're just supposed to temporarily wear. And there's a lot of like, yeah, there's a lot of darkness in those themes, I think.  Isabel: Wow, that's so interesting. I'd love to learn more about stop motion. What does stop motion make possible that isn't as easily accomplished through other forms of filmmaking? Cami: Yeah, I think the reason why I'm drawn to stop motion, what I stop motion makes possible is like a universality of just like a human experience because with other kinds of animation and other kinds of filmmaking, like there is kind of like an opacity to like how it's made. There's this this veneer, this magic to it, and there's that magic to stop motion too. But the difference between all of those and stop motion is made out of like everyday materials. It's made out of fabric. using paper. We're using clay. We're using materials that people have encountered in their day-to-day lives. And like, that's the one thing that we are all guaranteed to have in common is that we live in a material world and we encounter these textures and materials around us. so by like taking such a specific story and trying to convey such universal themes, it really like behooves us to be using like um a medium that is as universal as stop motion is. So I think that's like the big thing that stop motion unlocks for us. Plus also story-wise, like it's very paper centered, paper daughter, they're tearing paper strips, they're making paper masks. So like physically using these paper textures adds a lot to our world. um And I think working in stop motion gives you a degree of control that live action doesn't give you because we're creating. all of our characters, all of our sets by hand, which gives us so much of a say over what they look like and what they convey based on how they're constructed and stuff. And that's just a degree of communication that nothing else brings.  Isabel: I love that this is a magical realism film and you mentioned Guillermo del Toro. I know that in your campaign trailer, you featured Pan's Labyrinth, which is my all-time favorite movie.  Cami: Me too! Isabel: Yeah! How exactly did you come up with this specific blend of history and fantasy for your film?  Cami: I think that it's almost a natural human instinct to kind of have history and fantasy. Like, that's all that histories are, just stories told to us. And it's just being less literal about it and really leaning into the metaphors that we might use to convey the emotional realities of those histories, right? And so I feel like Del Toro does that a lot with his work. And Miyazaki as well does a lot of that with his work. So much of it deals with unpacking like World War II and things like that. And that's something that I've always just personally been drawn to. Even as a kid, my dream jobs were archaeologist or animator. And so here I kind of get to like do a little bit of both of those, know, like using the magic of animation to make history feel a lot more present and tangible and like emotionally relevant, which is It's really quite poetic to be able to be telling this story right now because it's going to mark the 100 year anniversary of my great grandmother's immigration to the US. I think we are due for an examination of immigration in our country. And I'm very interested to see how people respond to the questions that this raises of how different is the immigrant experience 100 years later. Have we gotten better? Have we gotten worse? Like I would posit it's perhaps worse now than it was then, but I'm really hoping to like, yeah, bring that reality into a more approachable space. And I feel like having that blend of magic and history just makes it a little bit more approachable than telling it in a literal way, you know? Isabel: Those are some great questions to ask. And on that same note, I'm interested in the specificity of Angel Island as well. What types of research did you do to produce your film?  Cami: Oh, gosh, I read every book I could find about it. have… How many books were those? Oh, my gosh, I want to say, like, not as many as I want there to be, you know? Like, Angel Island is not as well covered in history as places like Ellis Island, and there's a lot. to unpack as to why that may be, especially like the racial aspect of it. But I probably read about a dozen different books to prepare for this film. One of the most concrete and useful books that I read is a book called Island, and it's a collection of the poems that are carved into the walls of the men's barracks that remain on Angel Island. And those poems are a huge part, perhaps, the reason why Angel Island has even been preserved as a historical landmark. And so um the three authors went to great pains to replicate these poems, translate them into English, and provide a lot of historical context for the different topics of the poems. And there's a lot of like first-hand testimony from people who immigrated through Angel Island that they interviewed and included in this book. And so I do think that that book, Island, is like the primary source of most of my research for it. Everything else is more like quantitative history and quantitative data. Oh, also The Chinese in America by, I believe it's Iris Chang, that it's not just about Angel Island, but I read that and that gave me a much better understanding about like the place that Chinese immigrants have in American history. Because when I was a kid, like I really only ever learned about great grandma came over through Angel Island and now we're American and we live in America. But our history, as far as I was ever taught, begins and ends with us entering the United States. And so reading um the Chinese in America gave me a much broader understanding about, like, why did we leave China in the first place? And like, what has it meant for us to be in America as Chinese people since then? Yeah, all that came out of like in 2020 and 2021 when the rise of anti-Asian hate crimes were kind of coming about. I personally had to have a huge reckoning with like my racial identity and like how that has impacted like my experience growing up as a mixed-race person who's pretty perceivably Asian and all that stuff. So it was a really whole circle broad situation. Oh, I want to do a quick shout out to the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation. They were very generous with their time and they answered a lot of my questions and sent me a lot of archival images from Angel Island. So I want to thank them so much for their help in the research process of this.  Isabel: Oh, wow. How fascinating. Did you have any expectations on how the production process was going to go? And now that you're on the other side of it, what are your reflections?  Cami: I had no expectations as to whether we were going to get outside funding or not. Like I, I'm not an experienced or adept grant applicant. Like, it was really just because this was the right kind of project to fit with those kinds of grants. So I had no expectations there. So I am beyond thrilled to have received the support from Cape and Janet Yang and Julia S. Gouw and Shorescripts that we've received, like beyond thrilled for that. So that exceeded all of my expectations. um But as far as how the actual production has gone, the fabrication and the animation and the post-production, that's all stuff that I'm extremely familiar with. Again, that is my day-to-day life, that is my job, that is like what I have done for the last eight years at my studio, Apartment D.  So that all went pretty much as I hoped and expected that it would, but here on the other side, the one thing that has surprised me about it was how much love all of the artists put in this project because like we've said so much in this conversation, there's so much specificity to this. This is about my great grandma. This is about my family and my feelings about being a descendant of immigrants. It's so specific that I wasn't sure how emotionally it would resonate with anybody else that wasn't me or wasn't part of the AAPI community, you know?  But every single person — doesn't really even matter if they were Asian, doesn't really even matter if they have a specific connection to immigration — every artist that I asked to join me on this project, I immediately understood what it meant and understood what we were trying to say. And they put so much love into it. And like, we all put a lot of love into everything we do. It's stop motion. It's like, you don't do this unless you love it, you know, because you certainly are not doing it for the money or anything. um everyone was just so…I'm gonna say careful, but I don't mean careful like cautious. I mean careful like full of care. And I did not expect that and I am so grateful for it. Yeah, looking back, it's just so precious and so tender and like I'm so fortunate to have had the crew with me that I had to make this film.  Isabel: That's so lovely. What are you most excited about upon completing your film?  Cami: I'm just excited to share it with the world. I'm so proud of it. It is truly, and I'm not just saying this because it's my baby, but it is very beautiful and it is very special. For a lot of us, one of the first times that we've been able to be in charge of our own departments or to make the decisions that we wanna make and tell things, do things, show things the way that we think they should be done. And so it's kind of significant for many of us to have this film come out and to be received. What I want people to take away from it is an appreciation and a gratitude for everything that has had to happen for us to be where we are now. And I also really want people to take away the unconditional love that has occurred for us to be in the country that we have and to be the people that we are. Every single person is where they are. doesn't matter if you're in America or anywhere else, like we are all here because of the sacrifices that were made by the people who came before us. And those were all made out of unconditional love. And that's like, I want people to come away from this film remembering that our country is built on the unconditional love and sacrifice from people who came before us. And then wanting to give that unconditional love and sacrifice to everybody who's gonna come after us. Isabel: Such an amazing message. And I know that there's still lots to do and you still have a lot to celebrate with your upcoming film and with the festival circuit with Paper Daughter. But looking ahead, do you have any plans of what you want to do after the short film?  Cami: Yeah, I would love to bring it into a feature. There was so much that we had to cut out to make this film. On one hand, I'm glad that we cut out what we did because I think the film as it is, is like so tight and so like airtight and good and perfect and sparse in a really nice way, but we don't even get to delve into life before Angel Island. It begins and ends on the island, and I would love to explore the stories that brought this all about and the stories that come after. So bringing this up into a feature version and getting that in front of people would be amazing. And I have a couple other short film and feature film and script ideas that I would like to start working on as well. I've kind of really, I'm really grooving on the like Asian early Chinese American history. um So most of them are going to be set in California and focus on like Chinese immigrants and their role in the founding of America. um I'm really excited for the like, after all the film festivals, I really want this film to end up in classrooms. And I even just the other day like I have a friend who's a third and fourth grade teacher and she showed it to her class and then the students asked me questions about Angel Island and about animation. if this can play any part in helping to spread the story of Angel Island and the people that immigrated through there, like that's all that I could ever want from this. So I'm really excited for that.  Isabel: That's wonderful. I'll put your website, social media and seed and spark page for Paper Daughter up on kpfa.org so our listeners can learn more about this stop motion film and get updates for how they can watch it. I can't wait to see it when it comes out. And Cami, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express today.  Cami: Of course, thank you so much for having me. It was a great, great time talking with you.  Isabel: You just heard Cami Kwan talk about her film Paper Daughter. On Apex Express tonight, we have two more special guests who made magical realism short films. Next up is Dorothy Xiao, who made the film Only in This World. She's a Los Angeles-based award-winning filmmaker who likes to create grounded family dramas with a hint of fantasy.  Hi, Dorothy. Welcome to APEX Express.  Dorothy: Hi. Thanks for having me!  Isabel: Of course! Thank you for coming here. My first question for you is actually quite broad. How do you identify and what communities are you a part of?  Dorothy: Oh, that is a good question. I think in a broader sense. I would say, obviously, I identify as an Asian American. um But I think, like, for me, because I grew up in the 626 or the San Gabriel Valley, I grew up with a lot of people who looked like me. So I think I didn't truly identify as being Asian or had awareness of my identity until later on when I went to college. And then I took Asian American Studies classes and I was like, oh, wow, I'm Asian. Or like, what does it mean to be Asian? You know, like, I think I, at that time, prior to recognizing and understanding what it meant, and also even to be a minority, because at that, like I said, growing up in 626, even going to UCLA, where I'm surrounded by a lot of Asians, I never really felt like a minority. But I think it was really after graduating where I, depending on the spaces that I would enter into, especially in the film industry, I was learning like, oh, yeah, I am a minority and this is what it feels like. And prior to that, I think I just identified as being a daughter of immigrants. And that still is very strongly the case just because I grew up listening to so many stories that my parents would tell me, like coming from China, growing up like they grew up in China during a completely different time. I can't even imagine what it would be like living in the way that they did, you know, during the Cultural Revolution, under communism, in an intense way where they were starving, all this political stuff. But yeah, a second gen or for a lot of people, first generation, daughter of immigrants, of parents who decided that they wanted to make a better life for their kids out here in the States. I think that I want to stand by me saying that I don't feel like I am, I don't really want to identify as only just single categories all the time, just because within each community, could be, you could have nuances, right? Because I am a woman, but I'm also like a woman who doesn't want children, you know, and there was just so many different things of how I identify. So hard for me to categorize myself like that. But they are, there are tidbits of different communities. Like I still identify, identify as Asian American. I identify as a daughter of immigrants. I identify as a female filmmaker and yeah. And a business owner, I guess. Yeah.  Isabel: Right. Yes. Thank you for that nuanced answer. You know, it's so fascinating because I was reading about your work and you have worked in animal research administration and an afterschool program and even web development for nonprofits. How did you get into writing and directing?  Dorothy: Yeah. So after graduating college, I was definitely in a place where many, I'm sure, fresh grads understand what we call the quarter life crisis, where we don't know what we wanna do with our lives. And I was working at UCLA because that was the only job that I could get out of college for an animal research administration office. And really, I worked for them as a student. So I was like, well, it makes sense to have that be my full-time job, because you're in a place where you don't have skills. So how do you get a job if you don't have skills? That weird silly catch-22 situation. So I studied psychology in undergrad because my goal was to become a therapist. I wanted to work with Asian and Asian immigrant communities to help them with mental health because there's such a stigma attached to it. And being somebody who found mental health really important and also found that it was a really great way to understand myself. I wanted to work with, I guess, the people of my community. But at that time, I realized that there's still a stigma attached to mental health and it's really hard to get people to even go to therapy. Like living with my parents, it's really difficult. I cannot ever convince them to go. um And so I had pivoted into, or at least I discovered this filmmaking competition and ended up just like making a film for fun with a couple of friends, random people that um were not in film at all. And I had a lot of fun and I realized that we could actually create stories talking about things that are very similar to mental health or could provide that catharsis and validation that you could probably get in a session, in a therapy session. And it's not clinical at all. It's not as clinical. So, you know, on all those different jobs that you mentioned, they're all day jobs, know, animal research administration and then working for an after school program. That was me still trying to figure out how to be a filmmaker on my weekends. I still needed a day job. I didn't have the luxury of going to film school. So I would work at different places that gave me the flexibility of having a day job. But then also I had free time during the weekend to just make films with my friends, make friends films with people like my mom, who was one of my first actors earlier on. Love my mom. She did not do the greatest in my film, but I love her for being there for me. But yeah, like the different organizations or just jobs that I worked for were all really good in terms of providing me management skills and also communication skills because I worked in different industries, you know, and so at the end of the day, it all culminated in me at my current place. Like I am a freelance filmmaker and I also run my own video production company. So um becoming a writer, I mean, being a writer director is my main identity as a filmmaker. However, I don't think you could be a good writer-director if you don't have life experience. And having all those different jobs that I've had provided me with a lot of varied life experience and I interacted with a lot of different people, many different personalities.  Isabel: Yeah, no, I love that. So you grew up in Alhambra, which I'm familiar with because I too grew up in the San Gabriel Valley. How would you say that growing up in Alhambra has shaped you as an artist?  Dorothy: Alhambra is really special, I feel like, because in the San Gabriel Valley, there are many cities like this. You have Chinese people who can actually get by without ever having to learn English. And the same goes for Latin communities as well. And, you know, I have aunts and uncles who lived in Alhambra for years and never learned how to speak English. So I think it's like, what's so special about it, it feels like a safe space for a lot of immigrant communities. And then my parents being immigrants from China. living in Alhambra was a place where they could feel safe and feel connected to the people that they left behind in another country. And so being a child of immigrants, a daughter of like an Asian American, like a Chinese American growing up in Alhambra, I definitely felt like I grew up with a lot of people who were similar to me. know, we were like a lot of times the first American born children of our families even, and it was, we had to essentially understand what it meant to be Asian versus American and all of that.  But I think like being in Alhambra, I never felt like I wasn't seen, or at least I never felt like I was a minority. I think I mentioned this earlier, in that growing up in Alhambra, you do see a lot of people who look like you. And I have a lot of friends in the film industry who have moved out to California because they grew up in towns where they were like one, the only person, the only Asian person in their school or whatever. And I didn't have that experience. So for me, it was really special just being able to have a whole group of friends where there's a bunch of Asians. And we all spoke different languages. Like I had a lot of friends who were Cantonese speakers, but I'm a Mandarin speaker, but it was just really cool. It was like going to your friends' places and then you have aunties. So it's almost like having more family. You could feel like you have more aunts and uncles that will feed you all the time because that is the way they show love, right?  Isabel: Oh, certainly. I think there's so many stories in multicultural places like Alhambra. And speaking of which, you did in your film Only in This World. It's about an empty nester who has to face her ex-husband's mistress in order to summon her daughter back from the afterlife, which is featured in the 2025 Silicon Valley Asian Pacific Film Festival in Sunnyvale. Congratulations on such a beautiful film. I will say that I am a huge fan of magical realism, and Only in This World has some magical elements to it. So I'd love to get to know, how did you come up with this specific plot and characters that make up this film? Dorothy: Yeah, and thank you for wanting to talk about this one. It's a special story to me just because it is, I think it's the first film that I've made where I just decided to incorporate elements of where I grew up. And so Only in This World is inspired by my mom and her Tai Chi group at our local park, so Alhambra Park. My mom would go to do Tai Chi every morning for years. And in Alhambra, actually, as I mentioned, because there are so many immigrant communities, many of the immigrant communities tend to stay together with the people who speak their language. So Chinese people usually stick together with the Chinese speakers, Spanish speakers stick together with the Spanish speakers. You don't see a lot of mingling or intersectionality. But one of the special things that I saw with my mom's Tai Chi group was that they were not just Chinese people or Asian people, but there were Latino people in their group as well. And so even though they couldn't speak the same language, they would show up and still do Tai Chi every morning because it was a matter of doing something together. And so I love that a lot. And I wanted to tell a story about just older women who are finding friendship because I think that's really important in older age and in these groups because you see that a lot of the people in these Tai Chi groups are even the ones, not just Tai Chi groups, but there are dancers in the park, you know, like you'll see them in the mornings, not just in Alhambra, but in Monterey Park, all the different parks, open spaces, they'll have little dance groups.  A lot of the people who are part of those groups happen to be seniors, and I think it's just because they don't have work, they don't have children, they're lonely. And so…I think it's really important to be aware that where friendship or loneliness is actually an epidemic in the senior community. And it's really important to providing good quality of life is to just have them have that connection with other people. And seeing that in my mom, because my mom is getting older, having her be part of that community was what kept her happier. And so, yeah, and also my mother-in-law is Colombian. And she's done Tai Chi before as well with her group in Rosemead. And so I just was like, well, I'm part of a multicultural family. I want to tell a multicultural family story. Yeah, in terms of the magical realism element, I thought a lot about just how my family, if our house has ever burned down, the things that they would take out are our photos, the print four by six, like, you know, just the print photos because they're just so precious to them. There's something about hard copy pictures that is so special that digital photos just can't take over. Like there is an actual energy to how a photo is made or even like back then when we used to use film, there's energy that's required to actually create photos. And so, you know, I wanted that to be the power that powers this magical scanner where energy is taken from the picture and then you have the ability to bring someone you love back from the afterlife. And I really love grounded magical realism because I think it just makes difficult things a lot easier to understand when you add a little bit of magic to it, a little bit of fantasy.  Isabel: Yeah, magical realism is such a special genre. What part of the production process that you find the most profound?  Dorothy: I think it was just really my gratitude in how much my family came together for me and also just like the people of this team, know, like there were, I think one major situation that I can think of that I always think is really funny was, um so we filmed at my mother-in-law's house and my husband, Diego, was also working on set with me. He is not in the film industry. He's a software engineer manager. He's like in tech, but he is one of my biggest supporters. And so…when we were like, yeah, can we film at your mom's house? He was like, okay. But he had to end up being the, quote unquote, location manager, right? Because the house was his responsibility. And then, and he was also my PA and he was also DIT. Like he would be the one dumping footage. He did everything. He was amazing. And then ah one day we found out that his neighbor was actually doing construction and they were hammering. It was like drilling stuff and making new windows. They were doing new windows. And we were just like, oh, like, how do we get them to, like, not make noise? And so, and they don't speak English. And so we were like, oh crap, you know. So like, unfortunately, my producers and I don't speak Spanish, like we're all just English speaking. And then I did have Latinos working on my set, but they, you know, they had other jobs. I wasn't going to make them translate and do all that other stuff. So then Diego so kindly went over and talked to them and was like, essentially we set up. They were totally cool about it. They were like, yeah, okay, you're making a film. then whenever you're rolling sound, we'll just like prevent, like not hammer. And then so Diego is sitting outside with a walkie and talking to the first AD and other people inside the house, because we're all filming inside. don't know what's going outside. And then so like, we would be rolling, rolling. And then um the workers, I think his name was Armando, are like…whenever we cut, Diego would hear it through the walkie and he'd be like, Armando, okay, you're good to go. You can drill. Armando would drill. And then when we're going, and we'd be like, I'm going for another take. And then Diego would be like, Armando, please stop. So it was so nice of them to be willing to accommodate to us. Because you hear a lot of horror stories of LA productions where neighbors see you're filming something and they'll purposely turn on the radio to make it really loud and you have to pay them off and whatever. And in this case, it wasn't it was more like, hey, like, you know, we're making a movie and they were so supportive and they're like, yeah, totally. This is so cool. We will definitely pause our work, our actual work and let you roll down during the brief period. So we're really grateful. We definitely brought them donuts the next day to thank them. But that was just something that I was like, oh yeah, like I don't think I could have pulled that off if I didn't have Diego or if the fact, if it wasn't for the fact that these were the neighbors, know, that we were filming at someone's house and the neighbors already had a relationship with the people who lived here.  Isabel: Wow, that's really adaptable. And I'm so glad that went well for you. Dorothy, you've directed 13 films by now. Have you ever seen one of your films resonate with an audience member that you've interacted with in the past?  Dorothy: So there was this one short I had done a couple years ago called Tarot and it came at a time when I was struggling with the idea of whether or not I wanted to have kids and many of my friends are off having their first or second kids, you know, and so I never really wanted to be a mom, but then I have a partner who I can see being a great father, so I'm more open to the idea of being a mother, but it was still something I was conflicted about. And so I put this all into a short film, just my feelings of how my identity would change if I were to become a mom, because I've read so much about that. I found a Reddit thread one day where people were just talking about how being a mother is hard. And they openly stated how much they hated it. And it's okay to feel that way. And I wanted to put those feelings into this film to just put it out there like, hey, like if you don't like being a mom, even though you love your kid, you could still hate having that identity and be lost about, and it's okay to be lost or not sure about who you are. And so it was a really short film and it ended kind of open ended. It was like five minute film, so it didn't have like a full ending, but it was an open ended ending. And then afterwards I had a bunch of people come up. I had people who were parents, not just mothers, like even, or like fathers who had just had their first kid who were coming up and telling me like, oh, I totally identify. I understand that struggle of learning about who your new identity is after you've had a kid. And then I had people who were child free who were coming to me and saying like, yeah, this is a similar feeling that I've had about whether or not I should have any kids. Because, you know, as women, we have a biological clock that ticks. And that's something I feel frustrated about sometimes where it's really because of my body that I feel pressured to have a kid versus wanting to have one because I want one. And so that was a story I wanted to, or just something I wanted to put into a film. Yeah, and I also had another person come up and tell me that they were like, this was something I felt, but I never really openly talked about. And so I resonated a lot with this and it just helped basically articulate or helped me identify like, oh, I totally feel this way. And so that was really validating to me as a filmmaker because my goal is to reach others who don't feel comfortable talking about certain things that they tend to hide because I have a lot of those types of thoughts that I might feel ashamed or embarrassed to share. But then I put it into a story and then it makes it more digestible and it's like, or it's more, it's entertaining. But then like the core message is still there. And so people watch it and if they feel that they can connect to it, then I've done my job because I have resonated with somebody and I've made them feel seen. And that's ultimately what I wanted to do when I wanted to be a therapist was I just wanted to make people feel seen. I wanted to make them feel connected to other people and less lonely because that's something that I also have struggled with. Yeah, so filmmaking is my way of putting something small out there that I feel and then finding other people who feel the same way as me. And then we can feel validated together. Isabel: Ah yes, that is the power of film, and Dorothy's work can be viewed on her website, which I'll be linking on kpfa.org, as well as her social media, so you can get new updates on what she is working on. Dorothy, thank you so much for joining me on APEX Express today!  Dorothy: Thank you! Thank you for having me, it was so great to meet you!  Isabel: That was Dorothy Xiao, our second guest for tonight's edition of Apex Express, featuring magical realism AAPI filmmakers. Now time for our final guest of the night, Rachel Leyco, who is a queer, award-winning Filipina-American filmmaker, writer, actress, and activist. We'll be talking about her upcoming short film, Milk & Honey.  Hi Rachel, it's such an honor to have you here on APEX Express. Rachel: Hi, thank you so much for having me.  Isabel: How do you identify and what communities do you consider yourself a part of?  Rachel: Yeah, I identify as a queer Filipina-American. Isabel: So we're here to talk about your short film, Milk & Honey, which is about an ambitious Filipina nurse who leaves her family behind in the Philippines to chase the American dream in the 1990s and facing conflicts and hardships along the way. How did you come up with this specific 90s immigration story?  Rachel: Yeah. So Milk and Honey is inspired by my mom's immigrant story. you know, that's really her true story of coming to America in the early 1990s as a very young Filipina nurse while, and also a young mother and leaving behind her daughter, which was me at the time. um you know, following her journey in the film though fictionalized, a lot of the moments are true and there's a lot of exploration of assimilation, cultural barriers, loneliness and the emotional cost of pursuing the American dream.  Isabel: Yeah, when I read that synopsis, I immediately thought of this short film could totally be something that's feature length. How did you sort of this story to something that is like under 15 minutes long?  Rachel: Yeah, so I wrote the short film script first. And actually, you know, this is a proof of concept short film for the feature film. I actually wrote the feature film script after I wrote the short because there was just so much more I wanted to explore with the characters and the story. It definitely couldn't fit into a short film, though I have that short film version. But there was just so much richness to my mom's story that I wanted to explore, so I expanded into a feature. So I do have that feature film version, which I hope to make one day. Isabel: And you mentioned that this film is inspired by your mom's story. Is there any other sort of research that you did into this story that really helped you write? Rachel: Yeah, one of the main reasons I wanted to write the story, I mean, there's many reasons, but one is because there, if you ask the average American or the general public, they won't really know why there are so many Filipino nurses in the healthcare system. Because if you walk into any hospital, you'll see a Filipino nurse, more than one for sure. ah so I was really curious about the history. ah Having my mom as a nurse, my sister's also a nurse, I have a lot of healthcare workers around me. I grew up with that. I, you know, growing up, I also didn't really know or learn Filipino American history because it's not taught in schools. And I, you know, I took AP US history and didn't learn anything about, you know, my culture and our history. It's, not in the books at all. And it wasn't until like my early twenties that I was really curious about my roots and my upbringing and what it means to be Filipino-American specifically. And so um I really went into like a deep dive of just researching Filipino-American history. And specifically last year, I had been wanting to tell a story about a Filipino nurse because of my proximity to it with my mother. And you know, myself being an artist, being a filmmaker in the industry, there's so many medical shows out there, like, know, Grey's Anatomy, that's been long running, but very, very few, and rarely do we see Filipino nurses at the forefront and at the center of those stories. um You know, rarely are they series regulars. You know, sometimes they'll feature a Filipino nurse for like one episode or two and, you know, a recurring or a side character, but Filipino nurses are never the main character, never the series regular. And so that was another big driving force for why I wanted to make this story. And, you know, really making my mom's character the center of it. And so as far as like research, too, I definitely interviewed my mom and I asked her to just tell me her her entire story and specifically why she even wanted to move to the United States because she could have stayed in the Philippines or she could have moved somewhere else. um she saw a newspaper or her friend actually at the time when she was in a nursing school, a friend of hers saw an ad in the newspaper that America was sponsoring nurses. And so she had it in her mind already like, oh, yeah, I've heard of America. I've heard of the United States that it's, you know, there's better opportunities for me there. And at the time she had just had me. And so she had, you she's a young mother. She's trying to take care of her baby, her newborn. And so, you know, she had her eyes set on moving to the United States and that's kind of how her journey happened. And on top of that, I also did my own research on you know, our history, I watched this really amazing documentary um by Vox. It's on YouTube. It's all about why there are so many Filipino nurses in America. And it really just ties back to U.S. colonization. And after World War II, was so many, there was big nursing shortage in the United States. you know, white Americans did not want to, you know, fill that role. So they turn to Filipino women to fill the gap.  Isabel: Yeah, was there something special about the production process that looking back, you would want to replicate in the future or that really speaks to you?  Rachel: Absolutely. um Yeah, mean, definitely this experience and a lot of the people that I brought on to this project, I want to continue to make films with them and continue to make art with them because um I'm just so proud of the team that we put together. Everyone was so passionate and they knew how important the story was. They also had their own special connection to the material that they brought so much heart and passion into the film. that really comes through in the project. so like a lot of the people I brought onto this film, I want to continue to make art with them forever. That's one thing that I'm really, really grateful for, because I got to work with some really awesome people that I had never worked before or I had been wanting to work with. And so it was such a great opportunity that was given to me to be able to connect with such amazing and talented AAPI creatives in my circle.  Isabel: Yeah, I saw on your Instagram page for the film that you shot this film in both Los Angeles and Austin, Texas. Have you ever done a production where you had to sort juggle two different sets in two very different locations? And how was that entire process?  Rachel: Yeah, that was really, it was really fun. It was my first time being able to film in two different cities, let alone like two different states, really. A lot of my past projects have just been, you know, shooting it with the resources that I had that were available to me. You know, usually like my past short film, Thank You for Breaking My Heart, that I did last year, we shot all of it in one location, which was of course like, know, that is something that's really impressive in and of itself, of course. But, you know, because of the bigger budget that we had for Milk and Honey, I really wanted to challenge myself with this. And I really advocated for filming a part of the film in Texas because it is set in Texas. I was raised there. That's where my mom was placed when she, because how the process goes is, you know, she applied for the nursing sponsorship and then they placed them in certain areas. And so she was placed in El Paso, Texas at the time. And so that's where I also grew up. So I set the film there and I really advocated for filming in Texas because I wanted the film to have that feeling of the environment and atmosphere of Texas. um And so we shot some exteriors there for like this really fun Texas montage where you can really like feel that the character is there in, you know, in that heat, the Texas heat. So that was really, that was really fun. And I, you know, we shot, we shot two days in LA and we shot half a day in Austin, Texas. And we hired a second unit in Texas, because, you know, again, like, even though we had a really good budget, was still, you know, it was still pretty small. So I wasn't able to, you know, fly my LA crew over there. um So what we did was we just hired a second unit crew in Austin, Texas, and they were amazing. And most of them were queer, non-binary filmmakers. And it was just such a fun, intimate crew that you know, we just breezed by and had such a great time shooting that.  Isabel: That's wonderful. As a director, what inspires you and what are some of your filmmaking influences?  Rachel: Yeah, I mean, I'm constantly inspired by, you know, new films, filmmakers that I've seen, em particularly for Milk and Honey. I um so the film is, you know, this grounded drama, but there are a lot of moments of magical realism that I mix into it. love magical realism. love one of my favorite movies is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. It's such a beautiful film, also very grounded, but it's filled with all of this, you know, magical realism, surrealism. And so I infused that into, you know, Milk and Honey, which was really fun and a challenge to execute. But yeah, and some other filmmakers and creatives that I'm inspired by are Ava Duvernay. think her work is just incredible and also just an incredible artist overall. I love the kind of work that she does because it comes from such a deep place. And I love that she can combine art with politics and social justice as well. Isabel: I also love that you said in your one of your project funding descriptions that you use your art as your act of revolution, which is so relevant given that, you know, in our current state of, you know, our administration is silencing and suppressing voices of our immigrant communities. And how do we as filmmakers, as artists, what does that revolution and representation mean to you as a filmmaker and artist?  Rachel: I truly believe that that art is our act of revolution and just merely creating the art is that act in and of itself. We don't have to do more than that as from, in my opinion, as an artist, because the mere fact of us existing as artists, existing, myself existing and creating the work and having the work exists out there and putting it out. The most powerful thing that an artist can do is to make their art and share it with the world. And after that, just let it go, you know, forget about how it's going to be received. Forget about like, you know, the critics and, and, and the, you know, self doubt you may have and all of those things, because yeah, it's going to come. I think especially in the landscape of, like you said, of where we're at right now with our current administration and you know, just who knows what's going to happen in the next few years, but also in the face of like AI and technology and all of that, I think all we can really do as artists is to, in order for us to change the system is we have to be the change, right? And in order for us to be that change is just to continue to tell our stories and stay authentic to ourselves. Because I think that's also what a lot of people out there are really craving right now. People are craving authentic, real stories by people that we really don't get to see or hear their stories very often. And so um that for me is something that fuels me and my artistry every day.  Isabel: Very well said and a great reminder to all of us artists out there to keep making our art. What do you hope for audiences to take away when they watch your film?  Rachel: What I hope for audiences to get out of watching the film, well, one, at the core of it is a mother-daughter story. And I also did it to honor my mother and her sacrifices and her story. So I hope that, one, audiences will, you know, maybe reflect on their relationship with their mother and… um think of ways to honor their mother and their family and their ancestry as well. And another thing is to really think about what the American dream means to you, because that was another driving force for me with the film is it's called Milk & Honey because a lot of immigrants coined Milk & Honey as America's milk and honey as this like land of abundance, land of opportunity and you know, this is a, this is a place for creating a better life for ourselves. But I, for me, as I've grown up and as an adult now, really looking at like, well, what does the American dream mean to me? Is that still true to me? Do I still think the U S is a place where I can, where I can build a better life? Is it a place of abundance and something in the film, a big theme in the film is where Cherry's character scrutinizes that dream and thinks for herself, like, is the American dream worth it? And what does the American dream actually mean to me? What is the definition of that? So I think that's a big thing I would love audiences to also take away from it, you know, asking themselves that question. Isabel: That's a great thought to end on. I'll be including Rachel's social media and website on kpfa.org as usual so you can see if Milk and Honey will be screening in a film festival near your city during its festival run. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for joining me on APEX Express today. Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about magical realism in AAPI stories and the guests we spoke to. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting. Keep organizing. Keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Cheryl Truong, and Isabel Li. Tonight's show was produced by me, Isabel Li. Thanks to the team at KPFA for their support. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 1.08.26 – Magical Realism and AAPI Short Films appeared first on KPFA.

Fred from Alaska is back with a terrifying story originally told by a man named Edwin. While exploring the remote and hauntingly quiet Snake Lake with a group of Filipino friends, Edwin had a close encounter with an enormous, human-like creature. Armed with only a 9mm pistol and a sense of curiosity, he found himself face-to-face with a towering being whose intimidating presence and strange, unexplainable behavior left the entire group shaken and confused.But that's only the beginning. The episode also delves into other disturbing encounters from across Alaska's vast wilderness—stories of shadowy figures near the Nok River, and a lone man's brush with the unknown near the Sona River. Each account adds another layer to the growing body of eerie reports from the region, painting a picture of a land where the wild is truly wild—and perhaps inhabited by beings we've yet to understand.These firsthand tales highlight the fear, mystery, and awe experienced by those who have crossed paths with something extraordinary—and serve as a stark reminder that in Alaska's deep wilderness, we may not be as alone as we think.Get Our FREE NewsletterGet Brian's Books Leave Us A VoicemailVisit Our WebsiteBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sasquatch-odyssey--4839697/support.

Napansin ng buong Pilipinas ang isang batang Pinay na tahimik pero matindi ang dating sa world stage ng tennis.

Crime on a SaturdayFirst, a look at the events of the day.Then, Philo Vance starring Jackson Beck, originally broadcast January 3, 1950, 76 years ago, The Tip Top Murder Case.  A chorus girl named Susan Blake has no money. Nevertheless, she's being blackmailed for $5000, and then is murdered!Followed by Escape, originally broadcast January 3, 1950, 76 years ago.  The Pistol starring Gerald Mohr.  An action-packed western about the first Colt six-shooter, the California gold fields, and a double-crossing dance hall queen.Then, Calling All Cars, originally broadcast January 3, 1934, 92 years ago,  Missing Mexican Sheiks.   A hold-up has taken place on Terminal island. The robbers are both dark, one of them a Filipino. Followed by Suspense, originally broadcast January 3, 1960, 66 years ago, Zero Hour.  At five o'clock, the children decide to play another game.Finally, Fibber McGee and Molly, originally broadcast January 3, 1955, 71 years ago,  He Got Game.  Fibber tries to get basketball tickets from his old pal, Coach Fogarty. Thanks to Debbie B. for supporting our podcast by using the Buy Me a Coffee function at http://classicradio.streamCheck out Professor Bees Digestive Aid at profbees.com and use my promo code WYATT to save 10% when you order! If you like what we do here, visit our friend Jay at http://radio.macinmind.com for great old-time radio shows 24 hours a day

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's show features Asian Refugees United and Lavender Phoenix in conversation about art, culture, and organizing, and how artists help us imagine and build liberation. Important Links: Lavender Phoenix: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram | QTViệt Cafe Collective Transcript: Cheryl: Hey everyone. Good evening. You tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl, and tonight is an AACRE Night. AACRE, which is short for Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality is a network made up of 11 Asian American social justice organizations who work together to build long-term movements for justice. Across the AACRE network, our groups are organizing against deportations, confronting anti-blackness, xenophobia, advancing language justice, developing trans and queer leaders, and imagine new systems of safety and care. It's all very good, very important stuff. And all of this from the campaigns to the Organizing to Movement building raises a question that I keep coming back to, which is, where does art live In all of this, Acts of resistance do not only take place in courtrooms or city halls. It takes place wherever people are still able to imagine. It is part of how movements survive and and grow. Art is not adjacent to revolution, but rather it is one of its most enduring forms, and tonight's show sits in that very spirit, and I hope that by the end of this episode, maybe you'll see what I mean. I;d like to bring in my friends from Lavender Phoenix, a trans queer API organization, building people power in the Bay Area, who are also a part of the AACRE Network. This summer, Lavender Phoenix held a workshop that got right to the heart of this very question that we're sitting with tonight, which is what is the role of the artist in social movements? As they were planning the workshop, they were really inspired by a quote from Toni Cade Bambara, who in an interview from 1982 said, as a cultural worker who belongs to an oppressed people, my job is to make the revolution irresistible. So that raises a few questions worth slowing down for, which are, who was Toni Cade Bambara? What does it mean to be a cultural organizer and why does that matter? Especially in this political moment? Lavender Phoenix has been grappling with these questions in practice, and I think they have some powerful answers to share. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to angel who is a member of Lavender Phoenix. Angel: My name is Angel. I use he and she pronouns, and I'm part of the communications committee at LavNix. So, let's explore what exactly is the meaning of cultural work.  Cultural workers are the creators of narratives through various forms of artistic expression, and we literally drive the production of culture. Cultural work reflects the perspectives and attitudes of artists and therefore the people and communities that they belong to. Art does not exist in a vacuum. You may have heard the phrase before. Art is always political. It serves a purpose to tell a story, to document the times to perpetuate and give longevity to ideas. It may conform to the status quo or choose to resist it. I wanted to share a little bit about one cultural worker who's made a really big impact and paved the way for how we think about cultural work and this framework. Toni Cade Bambara was a black feminist, cultural worker, writer, and organizer whose literary work celebrated black art, culture and life, and radically supported a movement for collective liberation. She believed that it's the artist's role to serve the community they belong to, and that an artist is of no higher status than a factory worker, social worker, or teacher. Is the idea of even reframing art making as cultural work. Reclaimed the arts from the elite capitalist class and made clear that it is work, it does not have more value than or take precedence over any other type of movement work. This is a quote from an interview from 1982 when Toni Cade Bambara said, as a cultural worker who belongs to an oppressed people, my job is to make revolution irresistible. But in this country, we're not encouraged and equipped at any particular time to view things that way. And so the artwork or the art practice that sells that capitalist ideology is considered art. And anything that deviates from that is considered political, propagandist, polemical, or didactic, strange, weird, subversive or ugly. Cheryl: After reading that quote, angel then invited the workshop participants to think about what that means for them. What does it mean to make the revolution irresistible? After giving people a bit of time to reflect, angel then reads some of the things that were shared in the chat. Angel: I want my art to point out the inconsistencies within our society to surprised, enraged, elicit a strong enough reaction that they feel they must do something. Cheryl: Another person said, Angel: I love that art can be a way of bridging relationships. Connecting people together, building community. Cheryl: And someone else said. Angel: I want people to feel connected to my art, find themselves in it, and have it make them think and realize that they have the ability to do something themselves. Cheryl: I think what is rather striking in these responses that Angel has read aloud to what it means to make art that makes the revolution irresistible isn't just aesthetics alone, but rather its ability to help us connect and communicate and find one another to enact feelings and responses in each other. It's about the way it makes people feel implicated and connected and also capable of acting. Tony Cade Bambara when she poses that the role of cultural workers is to make the revolution irresistible is posing to us a challenge to tap into our creativity and create art that makes people unable to return comfortably to the world as is, and it makes revolution necessary, desirable not as an abstract idea, but as something people can want and move towards  now I'm going to invite Jenica, who is the cultural organizer at Lavender Phoenix to break down for us why we need cultural work in this political moment. . Speaker: Jenica: So many of us as artists have really internalized the power of art and are really eager to connect it to the movement.  This section is about answering this question of why is cultural work important.  Cultural work plays a really vital role in organizing and achieving our political goals, right? So if our goal is to advance radical solutions to everyday people, we also have to ask ourselves how are we going to reach those peoples? Ideas of revolution and liberation are majorly inaccessible to the masses, to everyday people. Families are being separated. Attacks on the working class are getting worse and worse. How are we really propping up these ideas of revolution, especially right in America, where propaganda for the state, for policing, for a corrupt government runs really high. Therefore our messaging in political organizing works to combat that propaganda. So in a sense we have to make our own propaganda. So let's look at this term together. Propaganda is art that we make that accurately reflects and makes people aware of the true nature of the conditions of their oppression and inspires them to take control of transforming this condition. We really want to make art that seeks to make the broader society aware of its implications in the daily violences, facilitated in the name of capitalism, imperialism, and shows that error of maintaining or ignoring the status quo. So it's really our goal to arm people with the tools to better struggle against their own points of views, their ways of thinking, because not everyone is already aligned with like revolution already, right? No one's born an organizer. No one's born 100% willing to be in this cause. So, we really focus on the creative and cultural processes, as artists build that revolutionary culture. Propaganda is really a means of liberation. It's an instrument to help clarify information education and a way to mobilize our people. And not only that, our cultural work can really model to others what it's like to envision a better world for ourselves, right? Our imagination can be so expansive when it comes to creating art. As organizers and activists when we create communication, zines, et cetera, we're also asking ourselves, how does this bring us one step closer to revolution? How are we challenging the status quo? So this is exactly what our role as artists is in this movement. It's to create propaganda that serves two different purposes. One, subvert the enemy and cultivate a culture that constantly challenges the status quo. And also awaken and mobilize the people. How can we, through our art, really uplift the genuine interests of the most exploited of people of the working class, of everyday people who are targets of the state and really empower those whose stories are often kept outside of this master narrative. Because when they are talked about, people in power will often misrepresent marginalized communities. An example of this, Lavender Phoenix, a couple years ago took up this campaign called Justice for Jaxon Sales. Trigger warning here, hate crime, violence against queer people and death. Um, so Jaxon Sales was a young, queer, Korean adoptee living in the Bay Area who went on a blind like dating app date and was found dead the next morning in a high-rise apartment in San Francisco. Lavender Phoenix worked really closely and is still connected really closely with Jaxon's parents, Jim and Angie Solas to really fight, and organize for justice for Jaxon and demand investigation into what happened to him and his death, and have answers for his family. I bring that up, this campaign because when his parents spoke to the chief medical examiner in San Francisco, they had told his family Jaxon died of an accidental overdose he was gay. Like gay people just these kinds of drugs. So that was the narrative that was being presented to us from the state. Like literally, their own words: he's dead because he's gay. And our narrative, as we continue to organize and support his family, was to really address the stigma surrounding drug use. Also reiterating the fact that justice was deserved for Jaxon, and that no one should ever have to go through this. We all deserve to be safe, that a better world is possible. So that's an example of combating the status quo and then uplifting the genuine interest of our people and his family. One of our key values at Lavender Phoenix is honoring our histories, because the propaganda against our own people is so intense. I just think about the everyday people, the working class, our immigrant communities and ancestors, other queer and trans people of color that really fought so hard to have their story told. So when we do this work and think about honoring our histories, let's also ask ourselves what will we do to keep those stories alive? Cheryl: We're going to take a quick music break and listen to some music by Namgar, an international ethno music collective that fuses traditional Buryat and Mongolian music with pop, jazz, funk, ambient soundscapes, and art- pop. We'll be back in just a moment with more after we listen to “part two” by Namgar.    Cheryl: Welcome back.  You are tuned in to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB B in Berkeley and online at kpfa.org.  That song you just heard was “part two” by Namgar, an incredible four- piece Buryat- Mongolian ensemble that is revitalizing and preserving the Buryat language and culture through music. For those just tuning in tonight's episode of APEX Express is all about the role of the artist in social movements. We're joined by members of Lavender Phoenix, often referred to as LavNix, which is a grassroots organization in the Bay Area building Trans and queer API Power. You can learn more about their work in our show notes. We talked about why cultural work is a core part of organizing. We grounded that conversation in the words of Toni Cade Bambara, who said in a 1982 interview, as a cultural worker who belongs to an oppressed people, my job is to make revolution irresistible. We unpacked what that looks like in practice and lifted up Lavender Phoenix's Justice for Jaxon Sales campaign as a powerful example of cultural organizing, which really demonstrates how art and narrative work and cultural work are essential to building power Now Jenica from Levner Phoenix is going to walk us through some powerful examples of cultural organizing that have occurred in social movements across time and across the world. Speaker: Jenica: Now we're going to look at some really specific examples of powerful cultural work in our movements. For our framework today, we'll start with an international example, then a national one, a local example, and then finally one from LavNix. As we go through them, we ask that you take notes on what makes these examples, impactful forms of cultural work. How does it subvert the status quo? How is it uplifting the genuine interest of the people? Our international example is actually from the Philippines. Every year, the Corrupt Philippines president delivers a state of the nation address to share the current conditions of the country. However, on a day that the people are meant to hear about the genuine concrete needs of the Filipino masses, they're met instead with lies and deceit that's broadcasted and also built upon like years of disinformation and really just feeds the selfish interests of the ruling class and the imperialist powers. In response to this, every year, BAYAN, which is an alliance in the Philippines with overseas chapters here in the US as well. Their purpose is to fight for the national sovereignty and genuine democracy in the Philippines, they hold a Peoples' State of the Nation Address , or PSONA, to protest and deliver the genuine concerns and demands of the masses. So part of PSONA are effigies. Effigies have been regular fixtures in protest rallies, including PSONA. So for those of you who don't know, an effigy is a sculptural representation, often life size of a hated person or group. These makeshift dummies are used for symbolic punishment in political protests, and the figures are often burned. In the case of PSONA, these effigies are set on fire by protestors criticizing government neglect, especially of the poor. Lisa Ito, who is a progressive artists explained that the effigy is constructed not only as a mockery of the person represented, but also of the larger system that his or her likeness embodies. Ito pointed out that effigies have evolved considerably as a form of popular protest art in the Philippines, used by progressive people's movements, not only to entertain, but also to agitate, mobilize and capture the sentiments of the people. This year, organizers created this effigy that they titled ‘ZomBBM,' ‘Sara-nanggal' . This is a play on words calling the corrupt president of the Philippines, Bongbong Marcos, or BBM, a zombie. And the vice president Sara Duterte a Manananggal, which is a, Filipino vampire to put it in short, brief words. Organizers burnt this effigy as a symbol of DK and preservation of the current ruling class. I love this effigy so much. You can see BBM who's depicted like his head is taken off and inside of his head is Trump because he's considered like a puppet president of the Philippines just serving US interests. Awesome. I'm gonna pass it to Angel for our national perspective. Angel: Our next piece is from the national perspective and it was in response to the AIDS crisis. The global pandemic of HIV AIDS began in 1981 and continues today. AIDS is the late stage of HIV infection, human immunodeficiency virus, and this crisis has been marked largely by government indifference, widespread stigma against gay people, and virtually no federal funding towards research or services for everyday people impacted. There was a really devastating lack of public attention about the seriousness of HIV. The Ronald Reagan administration treated the crisis as a joke because of its association with gay men, and Reagan didn't even publicly acknowledge AIDS until 19 85, 4 years into the pandemic. Thousands of HIV positive people across backgrounds and their supporters organize one of the most influential patient advocacy groups in history. They called themselves the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power or ACT up. They ultimately organize and force the government and the scientific community to fundamentally change the way medical research is conducted. Paving the way for the discovery of a treatment that today keeps alive, an estimated half million HIV positive Americans and millions more worldwide. Sarah Schulman, a writer and former member of ACT Up, wrote a list of ACT UPS achievements, including changing the CDC C'S definition of aids to include women legalizing needle exchange in New York City and establishing housing services for HIV positive unhoused people. To highlight some cultural work within ACT Up, the AIDS activist artist Collective Grand Fury formed out of ACT Up and CR and created works for the public sphere that drew attention to the medical, moral and public issues related to the AIDS crisis. Essentially, the government was fine with the mass deaths and had a large role in the active killing off of people who are not just queer, but people who are poor working class and of color. We still see parallels in these roadblocks. Today, Trump is cutting public healthcare ongoing, and in recent memory, the COVID crisis, the political situation of LGBTQ people then and now is not divorced from this class analysis. So in response, we have the AIDS Memorial Quilt, this collective installation memorializes people who died in the US from the AIDS crisis and from government neglect. Each panel is dedicated to a life lost and created by hand by their friends, family, loved ones, and community. This artwork was originally conceived by Cleve Jones in SF for the 1985 candlelight March, and later it was expanded upon and displayed in Washington DC in 1987. Its enormity demonstrated the sheer number at which queer folk were killed in the hiv aids crisis, as well as created a space in the public for dialogue about the health disparities that harm and silence our community. Today, it's returned home to San Francisco and can be accessed through an interactive online archive. 50,000 individual panels and around a hundred thousand names make up the patchwork quilt, which is insane, and it's one of the largest pieces of grassroots community art in the world. Moving on to a more local perspective. In the Bay Area, we're talking about the Black Panther Party. So in October of 1966 in Oakland, California, Huey Newton and Bobby Seale founded the Black Panther Party for self-defense. The Panthers practiced militant self-defense of black communities against the US government and fought to establish socialism through organizing and community-based programs. The Black Panthers began by organizing arm patrols of black people to monitor the Oakland Police Department and challenge rampant rampant police brutality. At its peak, the party had offices in 68 cities and thousands of members. The party's 10 point program was a set of demands, guidelines, and values, calling for self-determination, full employment of black people, and the end of exploitation of black workers housing for all black people, and so much more. The party's money programs directly addressed their platform as they instituted a free B Breakfast for Children program to address food scarcity Founded community health clinics to address the lack of adequate, adequate healthcare for black people and treat sickle cell anemia, tuberculosis, and HIV aids and more. The cultural work created by the Black Panther Party included the Black Panther Party newspaper known as the Black Panther. It was a four page newsletter in Oakland, California in 1967. It was the main publication of the party and was soon sold in several large cities across the US as well as having an international readership. The Black Panther issue number two. The newspaper, distributed information about the party's activities and expressed through articles, the ideology of the Black Panther Party, focusing on both international revolutions as inspiration and contemporary racial struggles of African Americans across the United States. Solidarity with other resistance movements was a major draw for readers. The paper's international section reported on liberation struggles across the world. Under Editor-in-Chief, David Du Bois, the stepson of WEB Du Bois, the section deepened party support for revolutionary efforts in South Africa and Cuba. Copies of the paper traveled abroad with students and activists and were tra translated into Hebrew and Japanese. It reflected that the idea of resistance to police oppression had spread like wildfire. Judy Juanita, a former editor in Chief Ads, it shows that this pattern of oppression was systemic. End quote. Paper regularly featured fiery rhetoric called out racist organizations and was unabashed in its disdain for the existing political system. Its first cover story reported on the police killing of Denzel Doel, a 22-year-old black man in Richmond, California. In all caps, the paper stated, brothers and sisters, these racist murders are happening every day. They could happen to any one of us. And it became well known for its bold cover art, woodcut style images of protestors, armed panthers, and police depicted as bloodied pigs. Speaker: Jenica: I'm gonna go into the LavNix example of cultural work that we've done. For some context, we had mentioned that we are taking up this campaign called Care Not Cops. Just to give some brief background to LavNix, as systems have continued to fail us, lavender Phoenix's work has always been about the safety of our communities. We've trained people in deescalation crisis intervention set up counseling networks, right? Then in 2022, we had joined the Sales family to fight for justice for Jaxon Sales. And with them we demanded answers for untimely death from the sheriff's department and the medical examiner. Something we noticed during that campaign is that every year we watch as people in power vote on another city budget that funds the same institutions that hurt our people and steal money from our communities. Do people know what the budget is for the San Francisco Police Department? Every year, we see that city services and programs are gutted. Meanwhile, this year, SFPD has $849 million, and the sheriff has $345 million. So, honestly, policing in general in the city is over $1 billion. And they will not experience any cuts. Their bloated budgets will remain largely intact. We've really been watching, Mayor Lurie , his first months and like, honestly like first more than half a year, with a lot of concern. We've seen him declare the unlawful fentanyl state of emergency, which he can't really do, and continue to increase police presence downtown. Ultimately we know that mayor Lurie and our supervisors need to hear from us everyday people who demand care, not cops. So that leads me into our cultural work. In March of this year, lavender Phoenix had collaborated with youth organizations across the city, youth groups from Chinese Progressive Association, PODER, CYC, to host a bilingual care, not cops, zine making workshop for youth. Our organizers engaged with the youth with agitating statistics on the egregious SFPD budget, and facilitated a space for them to warm up their brains and hearts to imagine a world without prisons and policing. And to really further envision one that centers on care healing for our people, all through art. What I really learned is that working class San Francisco youth are the ones who really know the city's fascist conditions the most intimately. It's clear through their zine contributions that they've really internalized these intense forms of policing in the schools on the streets with the unhoused, witnessing ice raids and fearing for their families. The zine was really a collective practice with working class youth where they connected their own personal experiences to the material facts of policing in the city, the budget, and put those experiences to paper.   Cheryl: Hey everyone. Cheryl here. So we've heard about Effigies in the Philippines, the AIDS Memorial Quilt, the Black Panther Party's newspaper, the Black Panther and Lavender Phoenix's Care Cop zine. Through these examples, we've learned about cultural work and art and narrative work on different scales internationally, nationally, locally and organizationally. With lavender Phoenix. What we're seeing is across movements across time. Cultural work has always been central to organizing. We're going to take another music break, but when we return, I'll introduce you to our next speaker. Hai, from Asian Refugees United, who will walk us through, their creative practice, which is food, as a form of cultural resistance, and we'll learn about how food ways can function as acts of survival, resistance, and also decolonization. So stay with us more soon when we return.   Cheryl: And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright.  huge thanks to Jackson and the whole crew behind that track.  I am here with Hai from Asian Refugees United, who is a member QTViet Cafe Collective. A project under Asian Refugees United. QTViet Viet Cafe is a creative cultural hub that is dedicated to queer and trans viet Liberation through ancestral practices, the arts and intergenerational connection. This is a clip from what was a much longer conversation. This episode is all about the role of the artist in social movements and I think Hai brings a very interesting take to the conversation. Hai (ARU): I think that what is helping me is one, just building the muscle. So when we're so true to our vision and heart meets mind and body. So much of what QTViet Cafe is, and by extension Asian refugees and like, we're really using our cultural arts and in many ways, whether that's movement or poetry or written word or song or dance. And in many ways I've had a lot of experience in our food ways, and reclaiming those food ways. That's a very embodied experience. We're really trying to restore wholeness and health and healing in our communities, in our bodies and our minds and our families and our communities that have been displaced because of colonization, imperialism, capitalism. And so how do we restore, how do we have a different relationship and how do we restore? I think that from moving from hurt to healing is life and art. And so we need to take risk and trying to define life through art and whatever means that we can to make meaning and purpose and intention. I feel like so much of what art is, is trying to make meaning of the hurt in order to bring in more healing in our lives. For so long, I think I've been wanting a different relationship to food. For example, because I grew up section eight, food stamps, food bank. My mom and my parents doing the best they could, but also, yeah, grew up with Viet food, grew up with ingredients for my parents making food, mostly my mom that weren't necessarily all the best. And I think compared to Vietnam, where it's easier access. And there's a different kind of system around, needs around food and just easier access, more people are involved around the food system in Vietnam I think growing up in Turtle Island and seeing my parents struggle not just with food, but just with money and jobs it's just all connected. And I think that impacted my journey and. My own imbalance around health and I became a byproduct of diabetes and high cholesterol and noticed that in my family. So when I noticed, when I had type two diabetes when I was 18, made the conscious choice to, I knew I needed to have some type of, uh, I need to have a different relationship to my life and food included and just like cut soda, started kind of what I knew at the time, exercising as ways to take care of my body. And then it's honestly been now a 20 year journey of having a different relationship to not just food, but health and connection to mind, body, spirit. For me, choosing to have a different relationship in my life, like that is a risk. Choosing to eat something different like that is both a risk and an opportunity. For me that's like part of movement building like you have to. Be so in tune with my body to notice and the changes that are needed in order to live again. When I noticed, you know, , hearing other Viet folks experiencing diet related stuff and I think knowing what I know also, like politically around what's happening around our food system, both for the vie community here and also in Vietnam, how do we, how can this regular act of nourishing ourselves both be not just in art, something that should actually just honestly be an everyday need and an everyday symbol of caregiving and caretaking and care that can just be part of our everyday lives. I want a world where, it's not just one night where we're tasting the best and eating the best and being nourished, just in one Saturday night, but that it's just happening all the time because we're in right relationship with ourselves and each other and the earth that everything is beauty and we don't have to take so many risks because things are already in its natural divine. I think it takes being very conscious of our circumstances and our surroundings and our relationships with each other for that to happen. I remember reading in my early twenties, reading the role of, bring Coke basically to Vietnam during the war. I was always fascinated like, why are, why is Coke like on Viet altars all the time? And I always see them in different places. Whenever I would go back to Vietnam, I remember when I was seven and 12. Going to a family party and the classic shiny vinyl plastic, floral like sheet on a round table and the stools, and then these beautiful platters of food. But I'm always like, why are we drinking soda or coke and whatever else? My dad and the men and then my family, like drinking beer. And I was like, why? I've had periods in my life when I've gotten sick, physically and mentally sick. Those moments open up doors to take the risk and then also the opportunity to try different truth or different path. When I was 23 and I had just like crazy eczema and psoriasis and went back home to my parents for a while and I just started to learn about nourishing traditions, movement. I was Very critical of the us traditional nutrition ideas of what good nutrition is and very adamantly like opposing the food pyramid. And then in that kind of research, I was one thinking well, they're talking about the science of broths and like soups and talking about hard boiling and straining the broth and getting the gunk on the top. And I'm like, wait, my mom did that. And I was starting to connect what has my mom known culturally that now like science is catching up, you know? And then I started just reading, you know, like I think that my mom didn't know the sign mom. I was like, asked my mom like, did you know about this? And she's like, I mean, I just, this is, is like what ba ngoai said, you know? And so I'm like, okay, so culturally this, this is happening scientifically. This is what's being shared. And then I started reading about the politics of US-centric upheaval of monocultural agriculture essentially. When the US started to do the industrial Revolution and started to basically grow wheat and soy and just basically make sugar to feed lots of cows and create sugar to be put in products like Coke was one of them. And, and then, yeah, that was basically a way for the US government to make money from Vietnam to bring that over, to Vietnam. And that was introduced to our culture. It's just another wave of imperialism and colonization. And sadly, we know what, overprocessed, like refined sugars can do to our health. And sadly, I can't help but make the connections with what happened. In many ways, food and sugar are introduced through these systems of colonization and imperialism are so far removed from what we ate pre colonization. And so, so much of my journey around food has been, you know, it's not even art, it's just like trying to understand, how do we survive and we thrive even before so many. And you know, in some ways it is art. 'cause I making 40 pounds of cha ga for event, , the fish cake, like, that's something that, that our people have been doing for a long time and hand making all that. And people love the dish and I'm really glad that people enjoyed it and mm, it's like, oh yeah, it's art. But it's what people have been doing to survive and thrive for long, for so long, you know? , We have the right to be able to practice our traditional food ways and we have the right for food sovereignty and food justice. And we have the right to, by extension, like have clean waters and hospitable places to live and for our animal kin to live and for our plant kin to be able to thrive. bun cha ga, I think like it's an artful hopeful symbol of what is seasonal and relevant and culturally symbolic of our time. I think that, yes, the imminent, violent, traumatic war that are happening between people, in Vietnam and Palestine and Sudan. Honestly, like here in America. That is important. And I think we need to show, honestly, not just to a direct violence, but also very indirect violence on our bodies through the food that we're eating. Our land and waters are living through indirect violence with just like everyday pollutants and top soil being removed and industrialization. And so I think I'm just very cognizant of the kind of everyday art ways, life ways, ways of being that I think that are important to be aware of and both practice as resistance against the forces that are trying to strip away our livelihood every day. Cheryl: We just heard from Hai of Asian refugees United who shared about how food ways function as an embodied form of cultural work that is rooted in memory and also survival and healing. Hai talked about food as a practice and art that is lived in the body and is also shaped by displacement and colonization and capitalism and imperialism. I shared that through their journey with QTV at Cafe and Asian Refugees United. High was able to reflect on reclaiming traditional food ways as a way to restore health and wholeness and relationship to our bodies and to our families, to our communities, and to the earth. High. Also, traced out illness and imbalance as deeply connected to political systems that have disrupted ancestral knowledge and instead introduced extractive food systems and normalized everyday forms of soft violence through what we consume and the impact it has on our land. And I think the most important thing I got from our conversation was that high reminded us that nourishing ourselves can be both an act of care, an art form, and an act of resistance. And what we call art is often what people have always done to survive and thrive Food. For them is a practice of memory, and it's also a refusal of erasure and also a very radical vision of food sovereignty and healing and collective life outside of colonial violence and harm. As we close out tonight's episode, I want to return to the question that has guided us from the beginning, which is, what is the role of the artist in social movements? What we've heard tonight from Tony Cade Bambara call to make revolution irresistible to lavender Phoenix's cultural organizing here, internationally to Hai, reflections on food ways, and nourishing ourselves as resistance. It is Really clear to me. Art is not separate from struggle. It is how people make sense of systems of violence and carry memory and also practice healing and reimagining new worlds in the middle of ongoing violence. Cultural work helps our movements. Endure and gives us language when words fail, or ritual when grief is heavy, and practices that connect us, that reconnect us to our bodies and our histories and to each other. So whether that's through zines, or songs or murals, newspapers, or shared meals, art is a way of liberation again and again. I wanna thank all of our speakers today, Jenica, Angel. From Lavender Phoenix. Hi, from QTV Cafe, Asian Refugees United, And I also wanna thank you, our listeners for staying with us. You've been listening to Apex Express on KPFA. Take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and keep imagining the world that we're trying to build. That's important stuff. Cheryl Truong (she/they): Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong  Cheryl Truong: Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – January 1, 2026 – The Role of the Artist in Social Movements appeared first on KPFA.

In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

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Episode overview Episode 2 continues Season 10's thematic journey with a focused conversation on feminism and disaster studies. The discussion explores how feminist thinking reshapes disaster scholarship and practice, challenges dominant canons, and opens space for listening, care, solidarity, and justice-oriented research. Hosts Jason von Meding Ksenia Chmutina Guests Kaira Zoe Alburo-Cañete — Filipino feminist scholar, Senior Researcher at the Humanitarian Studies Centre (ISS, Erasmus University Rotterdam) Susamma Seely — crisis and disaster human services specialist; PhD candidate in Disaster Science and Management (University of Delaware) Key themes Feminism as a pathway for expanding disaster scholarship Reading, curiosity, and discovery beyond disciplinary canons Privilege, access, and barriers to knowledge production Listening, hearing, and acting on marginalized voices Feminist methodologies: reflexivity, positionality, care, and solidarity Decolonial and postcolonial feminist perspectives The personal, emotional, and everyday dimensions of disasters Core discussion highlights Guests reflect on their reading trajectories and how lived experience, storytelling, and curiosity shape feminist scholarship. Feminism is discussed not as a single framework but as a diverse set of approaches that open space for multiple voices, emotions, and forms of knowledge. Kaira Alburo-Cañete discusses bell hooks, emphasizing feminist standpoint epistemology, intersectionality, marginality as a site of resistance, and the role of love, care, and solidarity in disaster research. Susamma Seely discusses Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak, focusing on subalternity, listening as a political act, and the challenge of creating spaces where marginalized voices can be heard and acted upon. The conversation highlights reading as a collective, social practice—through discussion, listening (including audiobooks), and shared curiosity. Participants reflect on how feminist and decolonial perspectives can inform more equitable research partnerships, especially across Global North–Global South contexts.

Bretman welcomes iconic singer-songwriters AJ & Alyssa Rafael for an episode filled with music, memories, and pure Filipino joy. They talk Christmas tour life in Hawaiʻi, Filipino traditions (including Christmas caroling hustles), how AJ first blew up here, poke cravings, Zippy's orders, and why Hawaiʻi feels like home. Bretman also digs into their marriage, Broadway dreams, Wicked opinions, Disney nostalgia, and their chaotic friendship history.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

"The Budots Three" showcase the thrilling sound of Filipino dance music. If you were on TikTok in the summer of 2024, there is a good chance you heard "Emergency Budots (Paging Doctor Beat)." The DJ Johnrey track spread fast, soundtracking countless dance clips, and just as quickly sparked a wave of corrections. Budots, viewers were told, wasn't new. And most people weren't dancing it right. To understand Budots, DJ Love, DJ Danz and DJ Ericnem are a useful starting point. The three producers have been making Budots music since the early 2000s, developing the genre largely outside formal club infrastructure, and across the trio's RA Mix, the genre's playful character comes into focus. Bouncy like a ball, it's primary elements are clipped vocal samples, pitched-up synth hooks and tightly looped rhythms. Heard in full, RA.1018 plays out as an hour-long joyride, making it difficult to square the music's buoyancy with Budots' earlier local associations with disorder and crime. DJ Love has been central to reframing Budots, positioning it as a form of release for the working-class neighbourhoods he calls home. "People fight in the slums," he told The Face. "I wanted to turn that energy into enjoyment." RA.1018 offers a glimpse into that world. Working collectively as The Budots Three—extra points if you catch the nod to a certain pioneering Detroit outfit—Love, Danz and Ericnem showcase the richness beyond TikTok's compressed snapshots. Across the hour, the mix moves between classic Budots reworks and newer mutations, tracing both the genre's roots and where it might head next. It's Budots, in full view. Find the tracklist and interview at ra.co/podcast/1037 @easternmargins

What is the Filipino American anthem? Is it Bebot by the Black Eyed Peas? P.T.I. by Carl Angelo? Lemonade by Jeremy Passion? Us by Ruby Ibarra? Do You Miss Me? by Jocelyn Enriquez? Todo Todo by Daniela Romo (you know who chose that one!)?? In this TFAL episode, we look at so-called Filipino American anthems...