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Best podcasts about amazonians

Latest podcast episodes about amazonians

Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone
#163 - Building Your Brand On and Off Amazon with Carina McLeod from eCommerce Nurse

Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 42:10


Carina McLeod, from eCommerce Nurse joins us to talk about building your brand on and off Amazon. Carina McLeod is the CEO and Founder of eCommerce Nurse. With 18 years of experience in retail and 15 years working with Amazon, Carina loves to see how the dynamics of online shopping have changed over the past two decades. She turned her passion for helping retail brands succeed in the online world into her agency, eCommerce Nurse. eCommerce Nurse is made up of a team of ex-Amazonians, their niche experience lends itself into a customized, creative service and a personalized approach. With strategic consulting, listing optimization, A+ content and brand stores, brand acceleration, account management, and Amazon Advertising services, their highly creative and tight-knit team works effectively together to deliver results. Collectively, the team has more than 20 years of experience working with Amazon. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you are notified of new episodes!

CTO Confessions Brought to you by IT Labs
Stories From The Amazonian Tribe with Charles Griffith Part 1

CTO Confessions Brought to you by IT Labs

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 30:41


Welcome to the start of a special series – in this series, we'll be talking to techies and tech leaders who have worked at Amazon – the Amazonians – and how it has shaped their futures in the world of IT. And the one hosting this series will be Charles Griffith, CTO at MileZero, a Capstone Company. Each of the individuals that will come on this series will bring their own unique brand of leadership and experience! In this one, you'll have the honor to meet Charles, as a nice intro in what we're sure you'll enjoy! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesgriffith/ Intro and background music: Craig MacArthur - Power Shutoff (www.youtube.com/watch?v=x74iB_jtauw)

Screaming in the Cloud
Cutting Cloud Costs at Cloudflare with Matthew Prince

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 48:08


About MatthewMatthew Prince is co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare. Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. Today the company runs one of the world's largest networks, which spans more than 200 cities in over 100 countries. Matthew is a World Economic Forum Technology Pioneer, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, winner of the 2011 Tech Fellow Award, and serves on the Board of Advisors for the Center for Information Technology and Privacy Law. Matthew holds an MBA from Harvard Business School where he was a George F. Baker Scholar and awarded the Dubilier Prize for Entrepreneurship. He is a member of the Illinois Bar, and earned his J.D. from the University of Chicago and B.A. in English Literature and Computer Science from Trinity College. He's also the co-creator of Project Honey Pot, the largest community of webmasters tracking online fraud and abuse.Links: Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com Blog post: https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/ Bandwidth Alliance: https://www.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-alliance/ Announcement of R2: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-r2-object-storage/ Blog.cloudflare.com: https://blog.cloudflare.com Duckbillgroup.com: https://duckbillgroup.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Writing ad copy to fit into a 30 second slot is hard, but if anyone can do it the folks at Quali can. Just like their Torque infrastructure automation platform can deliver complex application environments anytime, anywhere, in just seconds instead of hours, days or weeks. Visit Qtorque.io today and learn how you can spin up application environments in about the same amount of time it took you to listen to this ad.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Honeycomb. When production is running slow, it's hard to know where problems originate: is it your application code, users, or the underlying systems? I've got five bucks on DNS, personally. Why scroll through endless dashboards, while dealing with alert floods, going from tool to tool to tool that you employ, guessing at which puzzle pieces matter? Context switching and tool sprawl are slowly killing both your team and your business. You should care more about one of those than the other, which one is up to you. Drop the separate pillars and enter a world of getting one unified understanding of the one thing driving your business: production. With Honeycomb, you guess less and know more. Try it for free at Honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud. Observability, it's more than just hipster monitoring.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud, I'm Corey Quinn. Today, my guest is someone I feel a certain kinship with, if for no other reason than I spend the bulk of my time antagonizing AWS incredibly publicly. And my guest periodically descends into the gutter with me to do the same sort of things. The difference is that I'm a loudmouth with a Twitter account and Matthew Prince is the co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare, which is, of course, publicly traded. Matthew, thank you for deigning to speak with me today. I really appreciate it.Matthew: Corey, it's my pleasure, and appreciate you having me on.Corey: So, I'm mostly being facetious here, but not entirely, in that you have very publicly and repeatedly called out some of the same things I love calling out, which is AWS's frankly egregious egress pricing. In fact, that was a title of a blog post that you folks put out, and it was so well done I'm ashamed I didn't come up with it myself years ago. But it's something that is resonating with a large number of people in very specific circumstances as far as what their company does. Talk to me a little bit about that. Cloudflare is a CDN company and increasingly looking like something beyond that. Where do you stand on this? What got you on this path?Matthew: I was actually searching through really old emails to find something the other day, and I found a message from all the way back in 2009, so actually even before Michelle and I had come up with a name for Cloudflare. We were really just trying to understand the pricing on public clouds and breaking it all down. How much does the compute cost? How much does storage cost? How much does bandwidth cost?And we kept running the numbers over and over and over again, and the storage and compute costs actually seemed relatively reasonable and you could understand it, but the economics behind the bandwidth just made no sense. It was clear that as bandwidth usage grew and you got scale that your costs eventually effectively went to zero. And I think it was that insight that led to us starting Cloudflare. And the self-service plans at Cloudflare have always been unlimited bandwidth, and from the beginning, we didn't charge for bandwidth. People told us at the time we were crazy to not do that, but I think that that realization, that over time and at scale, bandwidth costs do go to zero is really core to who Cloudflare is.Cloudflare launched a little over 11 years ago now, and as we've watched the various public clouds and AWS in particular just really over that same 11 years not only not follow the natural price of bandwidth down, but really hold their costs steady. At some point, we've got a lot of mutual customers and it's a complaint that we hear from our mutual customers all the time, and we decided that we should do something about it. And so that started four years ago, when we launched the Bandwidth Alliance, and worked with almost all the major public clouds with the exception of Amazon, to say that if someone is sending traffic from a public cloud network to Cloudflare's network, we're not going to charge them for the bandwidth. It's going across a piece of fiber optic cable that yeah, there's some cost to put it in place and maybe there's some maintenance costs associated with it, but there's not—Corey: And the equipment at the end costs money, but it's not cloud cost; it just cost on a per second, every hour of your lifetime basis. It's a capital expense that is amortized across a number of years et cetera, et cetera.Matthew: And it's a fixed cost. It's not a variable cost. You put that fiber optic cable and you use a port on a router on each side. There's cost associated with that, but it's relatively de minimis. And so we said, “If it's not costing us anything and it's not costing a cloud provider anything, why are we charging customers for that?”And I think it's an argument that resonated with almost every other provider that was out there. And so Google discounts traffic when it's sent to us, Microsoft discounts traffic when it's sent to us, and we just announced that Oracle has joined this discounting their traffic, which was already some of the most cost-effective bandwidth from any cloud provider.Corey: Oh, yeah. Oracle's fantastic. As you were announced, I believe today, the fact that they're joining the Bandwidth Alliance is both fascinating and also, on some level, “Okay. It doesn't matter as much because their retail starting cost is 10% of Amazon's.” You have to start pushing an awful lot of traffic relative to what you would do AWS before it starts to show up. It's great to see.Matthew: And the fact that they're taking that down to effectively zero if you're using us is even better, right? And I think it again just illustrates how Amazon's really alone in this at being so egregious in how they do that. And it's, when we've done the math to calculate what their markups are, it's almost 80 times what reasonable assumptions on what their wholesale costs are. And so we really do believe in fighting for our customers and being customer-centric, and this seems like a place where—again, Amazon provides an incredible service and so many things, but the data transfer costs are just completely outrageous. And I'm glad that you're calling them out on it, and I'm glad we're calling them out on it and I think increasingly they look isolated and very anti-customer.Corey: What's interesting to me is that ingress to AWS at all the large public tier-one cloud providers is free. Which has led, I think, to the assumption—real or not—that bandwidth doesn't actually cost anything, whereas going outbound, all I can assume is that one day, some Amazon VP was watching a rerun of Meet the Parents and they got to the line where Ben Stiller says, “Oh, you can milk anything with nipples,” and said, “Holy crap. Our customers all have nipples; we can milk them with egress charges.” And here we are. As much as I think the cloud empowers some amazing stuff, the egress charges are very much an Achilles heel to a point where it starts to look like people won't even consider public cloud for certain workloads based upon that.People talk about how Netflix is a great representation of the ideal AWS customers. Yeah, but they don't stream a single byte to customers from AWS. They have their own CDN called Open Connect that they put all around the internet, specifically for that use case because it would bankrupt them otherwise.Matthew: If you're a small customer, bandwidth does cost something because you have to pay someone to do the work of interconnecting with all of the various networks that are out there. If you start to be, though, a large customer—like a Cloudflare, like an AWS, like an Azure—that is sending serious traffic to the internet, then it starts to actually be in the interest of ISPs to directly interconnect with you, and the costs of your bandwidth over time will approach zero. And that's the just economic reality of how bandwidth pricing works. I think that the confusion, to some extent, comes from all of us having bought our own home internet connection. And I think that the fact that you get more bandwidth up in most internet connections, and you get down, people think that there's some physics, which is associated with that.And there are; that turns out just to be the legacy of the cable system that was really designed to send pictures down to your—Corey: It wasn't really a listening post. Yeah.Matthew: Right. And so they have dedicated less capacity for up and again, in-home network connections, that makes a ton of sense, but that's not how internet connections work globally. In fact, you pay—you get a symmetric connection. And so if they can demonstrate that it's free to take the traffic in, we can't figure out any reason that's not simply about customer lock-in; why you would charge to take data out, but you wouldn't charge to put it in. Because actually cost more from writing data to a disk, it costs more than reading it from a disk.And so by all reasonable accounts, if they were actually charging based on what their costs were, they would charge for ingress but they want to charge for egress. But the approach that we've taken is to say, “For standard bandwidth, we just aren't going to charge for it.” And we do charge for if you use our premium routing services, which is something called Argo, but even then it's relatively cheap compared with what is just standard kind of internet connectivity that's out there. And as we see more of the clouds like Microsoft and Google and Oracle show that this is a place where they can be much more customer-centric and customer-friendly, over time I'm hopeful that will put pressure on Amazon and they will eliminate their egress fees.Corey: People also tend to assume that when I talk about this, that I'm somehow complaining about the level of discounting or whatnot, and they yell at me and say, “Oh, well, you should know by now, Corey, that no one at significant scale pays retail pricing.” “Thanks, professor. I appreciate that, but four years ago, or so I sat down with a startup founder who was sketching out the idea for a live video streaming service and said, ‘There's something wrong with my math because if I built this on AWS—which he knew very well, incidentally—it looks like it would cost me at our scale of where we're hoping to hit $65,000 a minute.'” And I checked and yep, sure enough, his math was not wrong, so he obviously did not build his proof of concept on top of AWS. And the last time I checked, they had raised several 100 million dollars in a bunch of different funding rounds.That is a company now that will not be on AWS because it was never an option. I want to talk as well about your announcement of R2, which is just spectacular. It is—please correct me if I get any of this wrong—it's an object store that lives in your existing distributed-points-of-presence-slash-data-centers-slash-colo-slash-a-bunch-of-computers-in-fancy-warehouse-rooms-with-the-lights-are-always-on-And-it's-always-cold-and-noisy. And people can store data there—Matthew: [crosstalk 00:10:23] aisles it's cold; in the other aisles, it's hot. But yes.Corey: Exactly. But it turns out when you lurk around to the hot aisle, that's not where all the buttons are and the things you're able to plug into, so it's freeze or sweat, and there's never a good answer. But it's an object store that costs a fair bit less than retail pricing for Amazon S3, or most other object stores out there. Which, okay, great. That's always good to see competition in the storage space, but specifically, you're not charging any data transfer costs whatsoever for doing this. First, where did this come from?Matthew: So, we needed it ourselves. I think all of the great products at Cloudflare start with an internal need. If you look at why do we build our zero-trust solutions? It's because we said we needed a security solution that was fast and reliable and secure to protect our employees as they were going out and using the internet.Why did we build Cloudflare Workers? Because we needed a very flexible compute platform where we could build systems ourselves. And that's not unique to us. I mean, why did Amazon build AWS? They built it because they needed those tools in order to continue to grow and expand as quickly as possible.And in fact, I think if you look at the products that Google makes that are really great, it ends up being the ones that Google's employees use themselves. Gmail started as Caribou once upon a time, which was their internal email system. And so we needed an object store and the sometimes belligerent CEO of Cloudflare insisted that our team couldn't use any of the public cloud object stores. And so we had to build it.That was the start of it and we've been using it internally for products over time. It powers, for example, Cloudflare Images, it powers a lot of our streaming video services, and it works great. And at some point, we said, “Can we take this and make it available to everyone?” The question that you've asked on Twitter, and I think a lot of people reasonably ask us, “What's the catch?”Corey: Well, in my defense, I think it's fair. There was an example that I gave of, “Okay, I'm going to go ahead and keep—because it's new, I don't trust new object stores. Great. I'm going to do the same experiment twice, keep one the pure AWS story and the other, I'm just going to add Cloudflare R2 to the mix so that I have to transfer out of AWS once.” For a one gigabyte file that gets shared out for a petabyte's worth of bandwidth, on AWS it costs roughly $52,000 to do that. If I go with the R2 solution, it cost me 13 cents, all of which except for a penny-and-a-half are AWS charges. And that just feels—when you're looking at that big of a gap, it's easy to look at that and think, “Okay, someone is trying to swindle me somewhere. And when you can't spot the sucker, it's probably me. What's the catch?”Matthew: I guess it's not really a catch; it's an explanation. We have been able to drive our bandwidth costs down low enough that in that particular use case, we have to store the file, and that, again, that—there's a hard disk in there and we replicate it to make sure that it's available so it's not just one hard disk, but it's multiple hard disks in various places, but that amortized over time, isn't that big a cost. And then bandwidth is effectively zero. And so if we can do that, then that's great.Maybe a different way of framing the question is like, “Why would we do that?” And I think what we see is that there is an opportunity for customers to be able to use the best of various cloud providers and hook the different parts together. So, people talk about multi-cloud all the time, and for a while, the way that I think people thought about that was you take the exact same workload and you run it in Azure and AWS. That turns out not to be—I mean, maybe some people do that, but it's super rare and it's incredibly hard.Corey: It has been a recurring theme of most things I say where, by default, that is one of the dumbest things I can imagine.Matthew: Yeah, that isn't good. But what people do want to do is they want to say, “Listen, there's some really great services that Amazon provides; we want to use those. And there's some really great services that Azure provides, and we want to use those. And Google's got some great machine learning, and so does IBM. And I want to sort of mix and match the various pieces together.”And the challenge in doing that is the egress fees. If everyone just had a detente and said there's going to be no egress fees for us to be able to hook these various [pits 00:14:48] together, then you would be able to take advantage of a lot of the different technologies and we would actually get stronger applications. And so the vision of what we're trying to build is how can we be the fabric that can stitch the various cloud providers together so that you can do that. And when we looked at that, and we said, “Okay, what's the path to getting there?” The big place where there's the just meatiest cost on egress fees is object stores.And so if you could have a centralized object store, and you can say then from that object go use whatever the best service is at Amazon, go use whatever the best service is at Google, go use whatever the best service is at Azure, that then allows, I think, actually people to take advantage of the cloud in a way which is what people really should mean when they talk about multi-cloud. Which is, there should be competition on the various features themselves, and you should be able to pick and choose the best of all of the different bits. And I think we as consumers then benefit from that. And so when we're looking at how we can strategically enable that future, building an object store was a real key part of that, and that's part of what we're doing. Now, how do we make money off of that? Well, there's a little bit off the storage, and again, even [laugh]—Corey: Well, that is the Amazonian answer there. It's like, “Your margin is my opportunity,” is a famous Bezos quote, and I figure you're sitting there saying, “Ah, it would cost $52,000 to do that in Amazon. Ah, we can make a penny-and-a-half.” That's very Amazonian, you could probably get hired over there with that philosophy.Matthew: Yeah. And this is a commodity service, just [laugh] storing data. If you look across the history of what Cloudflare has done, in 2014, we made encryption free because it's absurd to pay for math, right? I mean, it's just crazy right?Corey: Or to pay for security as a value-add. No, that should be baked into whatever you're doing, in an ideal world.Matthew: Domain registration. Like, it's writing something down in a ledger. It's a commodity; of course it should go to whatever the absolute cost is. On the other hand, there are things that we do that aren't commodities where we are able to better protect people because we see so much traffic, and we've built the machine learning models, and we've done those things, and so we charge for those things. So commodities, we think over time, go to effectively, whatever their cost is, and then the value is in the actual intelligent services that are on top of it.But an object store is a commodity and so we should be trying to drive that pricing down. And in the case of bandwidth, it's effectively free for us. And so if we can be that fabric that connects the different class together, I think that makes sense is a strategy for us and that's why R2 made a ton of sense for us to build and to launch.Corey: There seems to be a lack of ability for lots of folks, at least on the internet to imagine a use case other than theirs. I cheated by being a consultant, I get to borrow other people's use cases at a high degree of turnover. But the question I saw raised was, “Well, how many workloads really do that much egress from static objects that don't change? Doesn't sound like there'd be a whole lot of them.” And it's, “Oh, my sweet summer child. Sure, your app doesn't do a lot of that, but let me introduce it to my friends who are hosting videos on their website, for example, or large images that get accessed a whole bunch of times; things that are written once and then read forever by the internet.”Matthew: And we sit in a position where because of the role that Cloudflare plays where we sit in front of a number of these different cloud providers, we could actually look at the use cases and the data, and then build products in order to solve that. And that's why we started with Workers; that's why we then built the KV store that was on top of that; we built object-store next. And so you can see as we're sort of marching through these things, it is very much being informed by the data that we actually see from real customers. And one of the things that I really like about R2 is in exactly the example that you gave where you can keep everything in S3; you can set R2 in front of it and put it in slurp mode, and effectively it just—as those objects get pulled out, it starts storing them there. And so the migration path is super easy; you don't have to actually change anything about your application and will cut your bills substantially.And so I think that's the right thing to enable a multi-cloud world where, again, it's not you're running the exact same workload in different places, but you get to take advantage of the really great tack that all of these companies are building and use that. And then the companies will compete on building that tech well. So, it's not just about how do I get the data in and then kind of underinvest in all of the different services that I provide. It's how can we make sure that on a service-by-service basis, you actually are having real competition over time. And again, I think that's the right thing for customers, and absolutely R2 might not be the right thing for every use case that's out there, but I think that it wi—enabling more competition is going to make the cloud better for everyone.Corey: Oh, yeah. It's always fun hearing it from Amazonians. It's, “You have a service that talks to satellites in orbit. You really think that's a general-purpose thing that every company out there has to deal with?” No. Well, not yet, anyway.It also just feels to me like their transfer approach is antithetical to almost every other aspect of how they have built their cloud. Amazonians have told me repeatedly—I believe them—that their network is effectively magic. The fact that you can get near line rate between any two points without melting various [unintelligible 00:20:14], which shows that there was significant thought, work, effort, planning, technology, et cetera, put into the network. And I don't dispute that. But if I'm trying to build a workload and put it inside of AWS, I can control how it performs tied to budget; I can have a lot of RAM for things that are memory intensive, or I can have a little RAM; I can have great CPU performance or terrible CPU performance.The challenge with data transfer is it is uniformly great. “I want to get that data over there super quickly.” Yeah, awesome. I'm fine paying a premium for that. But I have this pile of data right here. I want to get it over there, ideally by Tuesday. There's no good way to do that, even with their Snowball—or Snow Family devices—when you fill them with data and send them into AWS, yeah, that's great. Then you just pay for the use of the device.Use them to send data out of AWS, they tack on an additional per-gigabyte fee for getting the data out. You're training as a lawyer, you went to the same law school that my wife did, the University of Chicago, which, oh, interesting stories down that path. But if we look at this, my argument is that the way to do an end-run around this is to sue Amazon for something, and then demand access to the data you have living in their environment during discovery. Make them give it to you for free, though, they'd probably find a way to charge it there, too. It's just a complete lack of vision and lack of awareness because it feels like they're milking a cash cow until it dies.Matthew: Yeah, they probably would charge for it and you'd also have to pay a lot of lawyers. So, I'm not sure that's the cost [crosstalk 00:21:44]—Corey: Its only works above certain volumes, I figure.Matthew: I do think that if your pricing strategy is designed to lock people in to prevent competition, then that does create other challenges. And there are certainly some University of Chicago law professors out there that have spent their careers arguing why antitrust laws don't make any sense, but I think that this is definitely one of those areas where you can see very clearly that customers are actually being harmed by the pricing strategy that's there. And the pricing strategy is not tied in any way to the underlying costs which are associated with that. And so I do think that, especially as you see other providers in the space—like Oracle—taking their bandwidth costs to effectively zero, that's the sort of thing that I think will have regulators start to scratch their heads. If tomorrow, AWS took egress costs to zero, and as a result, R2 was not as advantaged as it is today against them, you know, I think there are a lot of people who would say, “Oh, they showed Cloudflare.” I would do a happy dance because that's the best thing [thing they can do 00:22:52] for our customers.Corey: Our long-term goals, it sounds like, are relatively aligned. People think that I want to see AWS reign ascendant; people also say I want to see them burning and crashing into the sea, and neither one of those are true. What I want is, I want someone in a few years from now to be doing a startup and trying to figure out which cloud provider they should pick, and I want that to be a hard decision. Ideally, if you wind up reducing data transfer fees enough, it doesn't even have to be only one. There are stories that starts to turn into an actual realistic multi-cloud story that isn't, at its face, ridiculous. But right now, you have to pick a horse and ride it, for a variety of reasons. And I don't like that.Matthew: It's entirely egress-based. And again, I think that customers are better off if they are able to pick who is the best service at any time. And that is what encourages innovation. And over time, that's even what's good for the various cloud providers because it's what keeps them being valuable and keeps their customers thinking that they're building something which is magical and that they aren't trapped in the decision that they made, which is when we talk to a lot of the customers today, they feel that way. And it's I think part of why something like R2 and something like the Bandwidth Alliance has gotten so much attention because it really touches a nerve on what's frustrating customers today. And if tomorrow Amazon announced that they were eliminating egress fees and going head-to-head with R2, again, I think that's a wonderful outcome. And one that I think is unlikely, but I would celebrate it if it happened.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle Cloud. Counting the pennies, but still dreaming of deploying apps instead of "Hello, World" demos? Allow me to introduce you to Oracle's Always Free tier. It provides over 20 free services and infrastructure, networking databases, observability, management, and security.And - let me be clear here - it's actually free. There's no surprise billing until you intentionally and proactively upgrade your account. This means you can provision a virtual machine instance or spin up an autonomous database that manages itself all while gaining the networking load, balancing and storage resources that somehow never quite make it into most free tiers needed to support the application that you want to build.With Always Free you can do things like run small scale applications, or do proof of concept testing without spending a dime. You know that I always like to put asterisks next to the word free. This is actually free. No asterisk. Start now. Visit https://snark.cloud/oci-free that's https://snark.cloud/oci-free.Corey: My favorite is people who don't do research on this stuff. They wind up saying, “Oh, yeah. Cloudflare is saying that bandwidth is a fixed cost. Of course not. They must be losing their shirt on this.”You are a publicly-traded company. Your gross margins are 76% or 77%, depending upon whether we're talking about GAAP or non-GAAP. Point being, you are clearly not selling this at a loss and hoping to make it up in volume. That's what a VC-backed company does. Is something that is real and as accurate.I want to, on some level, I guess, low-key apologize because I keep viewing Cloudflare through a lens that is increasingly inaccurate, which is as a CDN. But you've had Cloudflare Workers for a while, effectively Functions as a Service that run at the edge, which has this magic aura around it, that do various things, which is fascinating to me. You're launching R2; it feels like you are in some ways aiming at becoming a cloud provider, but instead of taking the traditional approach of building it from the region's outward, you're building it from the outward in. Is that a fair characterization?Matthew: I think that's right. I think fundamentally what Cloudflare is, is a network. And I remember early on in the pandemic, we did a series of fireside chats with people we thought we could learn from. And so was everyone from Andre Iguodala, the basketball player, to Mark Cuban, the entrepreneur, to we had a [unintelligible 00:25:56] governor and all kinds of things. And we these were just internal on off the record.And I got to do one with Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google. And I said, “You know, Eric, one of the things that we struggle with is describing what is Cloudflare.” And without hesitation, he said, “Oh, that's easy. You're the network I plug into and don't have to worry about anything else.” And I think that's better than I could say it, myself, and I think that's what it is that we fundamentally are: we're the network that fits together.Now, it turns out that in the process of being that network and enabling that network, we are going to build things like R2, which start to be an object store and starts to sort of step into some of the cloud provider space. And Workers is really just a way of programming that network in order to do that, but it turns out that there are a bunch of workloads that if you move them into the network itself, make sense—not going to be every workload, but a lot of workloads that makes sense there. And again, I think that you can actually be very bullish on all of the big public cloud providers and bullish on Cloudflare at the same time because what we want to do is enable the ability for people to mix and match, and change, and be the fabric that connects all of those things together. And so over time, if Amazon says, “We're going to drop egress fees,” it may be that R2 isn't a product that exists—I don't think they're going to do that, so I think it's something that is going to be successful for us and get a lot of new users to us—but fundamentally, I think that where the traditional public clouds think of themselves as the place you put data and you process data, I think we think of ourselves as the place you move data. And that's somewhat different.That then translates into it as we're building out the different pieces, where it does feel like we're building from the outside in. And it may be that over time, that put versus move distinction becomes narrower and narrower as we build more and more services like R2, and durable objects, and KV, and we're working on a database, and all those things. And it could be that we converge in a similar place.Corey: One thing I really appreciate about your vision because it is so atypical these days, is that you aren't trying to build the multifunction printer of companies. You are not trying to be all things to all people in every scenario. Which is impossible to do, but companies are still trying their level best to do it. You are staking out the bounds of where you were willing to start and where you're willing to stop, in a variety of different ways. I would be—how do I put it?—surprised if you at some point in the next five years come out with, “And this is our own database that we have built out that directly competes with the following open-source project that we basically have implemented their API and gone down that particular path.” It does not sound like it is in your core wheelhouse at that point. You don't need—to my understanding—to write your own database engine in order to do what you do.Matthew: Maybe. I mean, we actually are kind of working on a database because—Corey: Oh, no, here we go again.Matthew: [laugh]—and yeah—in a couple of different ways. So, the first way is, we want to make sure that if you're using Workers, you can connect to whatever database you want to use anywhere in the world. And that's something that's coming and we'll be there. At the same time, the challenge of distributed computing turns out not to be the computing, it turns out to be the data and figuring out how to—CAP theorem is real, right? Consistency, Availability, and Partition tolerance; you can pick any two out of the three, but you can't get all three.And so you there's always going to be some trade-off that's there. And so we don't see a lot of good examples. There's some really cool companies that are working on things in the space, but we don't see a lot of really good examples of who has built a database that can be run on a distributed workload system, like Cloudflare to it do well. And so our team internally needs that, and so we're trying to figure out how to build it for ourselves, and I would imagine that after we build it for ourselves—if it works the way we expect it will—that that will then be something that we open up.Our motivation and the way we think about products is we need to build the tools for our own team. Our team itself is customer zero, and then some of those things are very specific to us, but every once in a while, when there are functions that makes sense for others, then we'll build them as well. And that does maybe risk being the multifunction printer, but again, I think that because the customer for that starts with ourselves, that's how we think about it. And if there's someone else's making a great tool, we'll use that. But in this case, we don't see anyone that's built a multi-tenant, globally-distributed, ACID-compliant relational database.Corey: I can't let it pass on challenge. Sure they have, and you're running it yourself. DNS: the finest database in the world. You stuff whatever you want to text records, and now you have taken a finely crafted wrench and turned it into a barely acceptable hammer, which is what I love about doing that terrible approach. Yeah, relational is not going to quite work that way. But—Matthew: Yes. That's a fancy key-value store, right? So—and we've had that for a long time. As we're trying to build those things up, the good news is that, again, we've run data at scale for quite some time and proven that we can do it efficiently and reliably.Corey: There's a lot that can be said about building the things you need to deliver your product to customers. And maybe a database is a poor example here, but I don't see that your motivation in this space is to step into something completely outside your areas of expertise solely because there's money to be made over there. Well, yeah, fortune passes everywhere. The question is, which are you best positioned to wind up delivering an actual transformative solution to that space, and what parts of it are just rent-seeking where it's okay, we're going to go and wherever the money is, we're chasing that down.Matthew: Yeah, we're still a for-profit business, and we've been able to grow revenue well, but I think it is that what motivates us and what drives us comes back to our mission, which is how do you help build a better internet? And you can look at every single thing that we've done, and we try to be very long-term-oriented. So, for instance, when we in 2014 made encryption free, the number one reason at the time, when people upgraded for the free version of our service, the paid version of our service is they got encryption for that. And so it was super scary to say, “Hey, we're going to take the biggest feature and give it away for free,” but it was clearly the direction of history and we wanted to be on the right side of history. And we considered it a bug that the internet wasn't built in an encrypted way from the beginning.So, of course, that was going to head that direction. And so I think that we and then subsequently Let's Encrypt, and a bunch of others have said, it's absurd that you're charging for math. And again, I think that's a good example of how we think about products. And we want to continue to disrupt ourselves and take the things that once upon a time were reserved for our customers that spend $10 million-plus with us, and we want to keep pushing those things down because, over time, the real opportunity is if you do right by customers, there will be plenty of ways that you can earn some of their budget. And again, we think that is the long-term winning strategy.Corey: I would agree with this. You're not out there making sneakers and selling them because you see people spend a lot of money on that; you're delivering value for customers. I say this as one of your paying customers. I have zero problem paying you every month like clockwork, and it is the least cloud-like experience because I know exactly what the bill is going to be in advance, which is apparently not how things should be done in this industry, yadda, yadda, yadda. It is a refreshingly delightful experience every time.The few times I've had challenges with the service, it has almost always been a—I'll call it a documentation gap, where the way it was explained in the formal documentation was not how I conceptualize things, which, again, explaining what these complex things are to folks who are not steeped in certain areas of them is always going to be a challenge. But I cannot think back to a single customer service failure I've had with you folks. I can't look back at any point where you have failed me as a customer, which is a strange thing to say, given how incredibly efficient I am at stumbling over weird bugs.Matthew: Terrific to have you as a customer. We are hardly perfect and we make mistakes, but one of the things I think that we try to do and one of the core values of Cloudflare is transparency. If I think about, like, the original sins of tech, a lot of it is this bizarre secrecy which pervades the entire industry. When we make mistakes, we talk about them, and we explain them. When there's an error, we don't throw up a white page; we put up a page that has our logo on it because we want to own it.And that sometimes gets blowback because you're in front of it, but again, I think it's the right thing to do for customers. And it's and I think it's incredibly important. One of the things that's interesting is you mentioned that you know what your bill is going to be. If you go back and look at the history of hosting on the internet, in the early days of internet hosting, it looks a lot like AWS.Corey: Oh, 95th percentile transit billing; go for one five minutes segment over and boom, your bill explodes. Oh, I remember those days. Unkindly.Matthew: And it was super complicated. And then what happened is the hosting world switched from this incredibly complicated billing to much more simplified, predictable, unlimited bandwidth with maybe some asterisks, but largely that was in place. And then it's strange that Amazon came along and then has brought us back to the more complicated world that's out there. I would have predicted that that's a sine wave—Corey: It has to be. I mean—Matthew: —and it's going to go back and forth over time. But I would have predicted that we would be more in the direction of coming back toward simplify, everything included. And again, I think that's how we've priced our things from the beginning. I'm surprised that it has held on as long as it has, but I do think that there's going to be an opportunity for—and I don't think Amazon will be the leader here, but I think there will be an opportunity for one of the big clouds.And again, I think Oracle is probably doing this the best of any of them right now—to say, “How can we go away from that complexity? How can we make bills predictable? How can we not nickel and dime everything, but allow you to actually forecast and budget?” And it just seems like that's the natural arc of history, and we will head back toward that. And, again, I think we've done our part to push that along. And I'm excited that other cloud providers seem to be thinking about that now as well.Corey: Oh, yeah. What I do with fixing AWS bills is the same thing folks were doing in the 70s and 80s with long-distance bills for companies. We're definitely hitting that sine wave. I know that if I were at AWS in a leadership role, I would be actively embarrassed that the company that is delivering a better customer experience around financial things is Oracle of all companies, given their history of audits and surprising people and the rest. It is ridiculous to me.One last topic that I want to cover with you before we call it an episode is, back in college, you had a thesis that you have done an excellent job of effectively eliminating from the internet. And the theme of this, to my understanding, was that the internet is a fad. And I am so aligned with that because I'm someone who has said for years that emerging technologies are fads. I've said it about cloud, about virtualization, about containers. And I just skipped Kubernetes. And now I'm all-in on serverless, which means, of course it's going to fail because I'm always wrong on these things. But tell me about that.Matthew: When I was seven years old in 1980, my grandmother gave me an Apple ][+ computer for Christmas. And I took to it like a just absolute duck to water and did things that made me very popular in junior high school, like going to computer camp. And my mom used to sign up for continuing education classes at the local university in computer science, and basically sneak me in, and I'd do all the homework and all that. And I remember when I got to college, there was a small group of students that would come around and help other students set their computer up, and I had it all set up and was involved. And so, got pretty deeply involved in the computer science program at college.And then I remember there was a group of three other students—so they were four of us—and they wanted to start an online digital magazine. And at the time, this was pre-web, or right in the early days of the web; it was sort of nineteen… ninety-three. And we built it originally on old Apple technology called HyperCard. And we used to email out the old HyperCard stacks. And the HyperCard stacks kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and we'd send them out to the school so [laugh] that we—so we kept crashing the mail servers.But the college loved this, so they kept buying bigger and bigger mail servers. But they were—at some point, they said, “This won't scale. You got to switch technologies.” And they introduced us to two different groups. One was a printer company based out in San Francisco that had this technology called PDF. And I was a really big fan of PDF. I thought PDF was the future, it was definitely going to be how everything got published.And then the other was this group of dorky graduate students at the University of Illinois that had this thing called a browser, which was super flaky, and crashed all the time, and didn't work. And so of the four of us, I was the one who voted for PDF and the other three were like, “Actually, I think this HTML thing is going to be a hit.” And we built this. We won an award from Wired—which was only a print magazine at the time—that called us the first online-only weekly publication. And it was such a struggle to get anyone to write for it because browsers sucked and, you know, trying to get students on campus, but no one on campus cared.We would get these emails from the other side of the world, where I remember really clearly is this—in broken English—email from Japan saying, “I love the magazine. Please keep writing more for the magazine.” And I remember thinking at the time, “Why do I care if someone in Japan is reading this if the girl down the hall who I have a crush on isn't?” Which is obviously what motivates dorky college students like myself. And at that same time, you saw all of this internet explosion.I remember the moment when Netscape went public and just blew through all the expectations. And it was right around the time I was getting ready to graduate for college, and I was kind of just burned out on the entire thing. And I thought, “If I can't even get anyone to write for this dopey magazine and yet we're winning awards, like, this stuff has to all just be complete garbage.” And so wrote a thesis on—ehh, it was not a very good [laugh] thesis. It's—but one of the things I said was that largely the internet was a fad, and that if it wasn't, that it had some real risks because if you enabled everyone to connect with whatever their weird interests and hobbies were, that you would very quickly fall to the lowest common denominator. And predicted some things that haven't come true. I thought for sure that you would have both a liberal and conservative search engine. And it's a miracle to this day, I think that doesn't exist.Corey: Now, that you said it, of course, it's going to.Matthew: Well, I don't know I've… [sigh] we'll see. But it is pretty amazing that Google has been able to, again, thread that line and stay largely apolitical. I'm surprised there aren't more national search engines; the fact that it only Russia and China have national search engines and France and Germany don't is just strange to me. It seems like if you're controlling the source of truth and how people find it, that seems like something that governments would try and take over. There are some things that in retrospect, look pretty wise, but there were a lot more things that looked really, really stupid. And so I think at some level, I had to build Cloudflare to atone for that stupidity all those years ago.Corey: There's something to be said for looking back and saying, “Yeah, I had an opinion, and with the light of new information, I am changing my opinion.” For some reason, in some circles, it feels like that gets interpreted as a sign of weakness, but I couldn't disagree more, it's, “Well, I had an opinion based upon what I saw at the time. Turns out, I was wrong, and here we are.” I really wish more people were capable of doing that.Matthew: It's one of the things we test for in hiring. And I think the characteristic that describes people who can do that well is really empathy. The understanding that the experiences that you have lead you to have a unique set of insights, but they also create a unique set of blind spots. And it's rare that you find people that are able to do that. And whenever you do—whenever we do we hire them.Corey: To that end, as far as hiring and similar topics go, if people want to learn more about how you view things, and how you see the world, and what you're releasing—maybe even potentially work with you—where can they find you?Matthew: [laugh]. So, the joke, sometimes, internal at Cloudflare is that Cloudflare is a blogging company that runs this global network just to have something to write about. So, I think we're unlike most corporate blogs, which are—if our corporate blog were typical, we'd have articles on, like, “Here are the top six reasons you need a fast website,” which would just be, you know, shoot me. But instead, I think we write about the things that are going on online and our unique view into them. And we have a core value of transparency, so we talk about that. So, if you're interested in Cloudflare, I'd encourage you to—especially if you're of the sort of geekier variety—to check out blog.cloudflare.com, and I think that's a good place to learn about us. And I still write for that occasionally.Corey: You're one of the only non-AWS corporate blogs that I pay attention to, for that exact reason. It is not, “Oh, yay. More content marketing by folks who just feel the need to hit a quota as opposed to talking about something valuable and interesting.” So, it's appreciated.Matthew: The secret to it was we realized at some point that the purpose of the blog wasn't to attract customers, it was to attract potential employees. And it turns out, if you sort of change that focus, then you talk to people like their peers, and it turns out then that the content that you create is much more authentic. And that turns out to be a great way to attract customers as well.Corey: I want to thank you for taking so much time out of your day to speak with me. I really appreciate it.Matthew: Thanks for all you're doing. And we're very aligned, and keep fighting the good fight. And someday, again, we'll eliminate cloud egress fees, and we can share a beer when we do.Corey: I will absolutely be there for it. Matthew, Prince, CEO, and co-founder of Cloudflare. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a rambling comment explaining that while data packets into a cloud provider are cheap and crappy, the ones being sent to the internet are beautiful, bespoke, unicorn snowflakes, so of course they cost money.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Amazonian Talk
Living on a Tight A** Budget Pt. 2

Amazonian Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 24:24


Grocery shopping and gas are a pain in the a** now. Given the current inflation, do you realize if you got a 4% raise and inflation increased by 6%  that you are still spending more money? #Amazonians let's find some savvy ways to ease this financial reality. 

Screaming in the Cloud
Building a Partnership with Your Cloud Provider with Micheal Benedict

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2021 54:44


About Micheal Micheal Benedict leads Engineering Productivity at Pinterest. He and his team focus on developer experience, building tools and platforms for over a thousand engineers to effectively code, build, deploy and operate workloads on the cloud. Mr. Benedict has also built Infrastructure and Cloud Governance programs at Pinterest and previously, at Twitter -- focussed on managing cloud vendor relationships, infrastructure budget management, cloud migration, capacity forecasting and planning and cloud cost attribution (chargeback). Links: Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com Teletraan: https://github.com/pinterest/teletraan Twitter: https://twitter.com/micheal Pinterestcareers.com: https://pinterestcareers.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: You know how git works right?Announcer: Sorta, kinda, not really. Please ask someone else!Corey: Thats all of us. Git is how we build things, and Netlify is one of the best way I've found to build those things quickly for the web. Netlify's git based workflows mean you don't have to play slap and tickle with integrating arcane non-sense and web hooks, which are themselves about as well understood as git. Give them a try and see what folks ranging from my fake Twitter for pets startup, to global fortune 2000 companies are raving about. If you end up talking to them, because you don't have to, they get why self service is important—but if you do, be sure to tell them that I sent you and watch all of the blood drain from their faces instantly. You can find them in the AWS marketplace or at www.netlify.com. N-E-T-L-I-F-Y.comCorey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Vultr. Spelled V-U-L-T-R because they're all about helping save money, including on things like, you know, vowels. So, what they do is they are a cloud provider that provides surprisingly high performance cloud compute at a price that—while sure they claim its better than AWS pricing—and when they say that they mean it is less money. Sure, I don't dispute that but what I find interesting is that it's predictable. They tell you in advance on a monthly basis what it's going to going to cost. They have a bunch of advanced networking features. They have nineteen global locations and scale things elastically. Not to be confused with openly, because apparently elastic and open can mean the same thing sometimes. They have had over a million users. Deployments take less that sixty seconds across twelve pre-selected operating systems. Or, if you're one of those nutters like me, you can bring your own ISO and install basically any operating system you want. Starting with pricing as low as $2.50 a month for Vultr cloud compute they have plans for developers and businesses of all sizes, except maybe Amazon, who stubbornly insists on having something to scale all on their own. Try Vultr today for free by visiting: vultr.com/screaming, and you'll receive a $100 in credit. Thats v-u-l-t-r.com slash screaming.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Every once in a while, I like to talk to people who work at very large companies that are not in fact themselves a cloud provider. I know it sounds ridiculous. How can you possibly be a big company and not make money by selling managed NAT gateways to an unsuspecting public? But I'm told it can be done here to answer that question. And hopefully at least one other is Pinterest. It's head of engineering productivity, Micheal Benedict. Micheal, thank you for taking the time to join me today.Micheal: Hi, Corey, thank you for inviting me today. I'm really excited to talk to you.Corey: So, exciting times at Pinterest in a bunch of different ways. It was recently reported—which of course, went right to the top of my inbox as 500,000 people on Twitter all said, “Hey, this sounds like a ‘Corey would be interested in it' thing.” It was announced that you folks had signed a $3.2 billion commitment with AWS stretching until 2028. Now, if this is like any other large-scale AWS contract commitment deal that has been made public, you were probably immediately inundated with a whole bunch of people who are very good at arithmetic and not very good at business context saying, “$3.2 billion? You could build massive data centers for that. Why would anyone do this?” And it's tiresome, and that's the world in which we live. But I'm guessing you heard at least a little bit of that from the peanut gallery.Micheal: I did, and I always find it interesting when direct comparisons are made with the total amount that's been committed. And like you said, there's so many nuances that go into how to perceive that amount, and put it in context of, obviously, what Pinterest does. So, I at least want to take this opportunity to share with everyone that Pinterest has been on the cloud since day one. When Ben initially started the company, that product was launched—it was a simple Django app—it was launched on AWS from day one, and since then, it has grown to support 450-plus million MAUs over the course of the decade.And our infrastructure has grown pretty complex. We started with a bunch of EC2 machines and persisting data in S3, and since then we have explored an array of different products, in fact, sometimes working very closely with AWS, as well and helping them put together a product roadmap for some of the items they're working on as well. So, we have an amazing partnership with them, and part of the commitment and how we want to see these numbers is how does it unlock value for Pinterest as a business over time in terms of making us much more agile, without thinking about the nuances of the infrastructure itself. And that's, I think, one of the best ways to really put this into context, that it's not a single number we pay at the end [laugh] of the month, but rather, we are on track to spending a certain amount over a period of time, so this just keeps accruing or adding to that number. And we basically come out with an amazing partnership in AWS, where we have that commitment and we're able to leverage their products and full suite of items without any hiccups.Corey: The most interesting part of what you said is the word partner. And I think that's the piece that gets lost an awful lot when we talk about large-scale cloud negotiations. It's not like buying a car, where you can basically beat the crap out of the salesperson, you can act as if $400 price difference on a car is the difference between storm out of the dealership and sign the contract. Great, you don't really have to deal with that person ever again.In the context of a cloud provider, they run your production infrastructure, and if they have a bad day, I promise you're going to have a bad day, too. You want to handle those negotiations in a way that is respectful of that because they are your partner, whether you want them to be or not. Now, I'm not suggesting that any cloud provider is going to hold an awkward negotiation against the customer, but at the same time, there are going to be scenarios in which you're going to want to have strong relationships, where you're going to need to cash in political capital to some extent, and personally, I've never seen stupendous value in trying to beat the crap out of a company in order to get another tenth of a percent discount on a service you barely use, just because someone decided that well, we didn't do well in the last negotiation so we're going to get them back this time.That's great. What are you actually planning to do as a company? Where are you going? And the fact that you just alluded to, that you're not just a pile of S3 and EC2 instances speaks, in many ways, to that. By moving into the differentiated service world, suddenly you're able to do things that don't look quite as much like building a better database and start looking a lot more like servicing your users more effectively and well.Micheal: And I think, like you said, I feel like there's like a general skepticism in viewing that the cloud providers are usually out there to rip you apart. But in reality, that's not true. To your point, as part of the partnership, especially with AWS and Pinterest, we've got an amazing relationship going on, and behind the scenes, there's a dedicated team at Pinterest, called the Infrastructure Governance Team, a cross-functional team with folks from finance, legal, engineering, product, all sitting together and working with our AWS partners—even the AWS account managers at the times are part of that—to help us make both Pinterest successful, and in turn, AWS gets that amazing customer to work with in helping build some of their newer products as well. And that's one of the most important things we have learned over time is that there's two parts to it; when you want to help improve your business agility, you want to focus not just on the bottom line numbers as they are. It's okay to pay a premium because it offsets the people capital you would have to invest in getting there.And that's a very tricky way to look at math, but that's what these teams do; they sit down and work through those specifics. And for what it's worth, in our conversations, the AWS teams always come back with giving us very insightful data on how we're using their systems to help us better think about how we should be pricing or looking things ahead. And I'm not the expert on this; like I said, there's a dedicated team sitting behind this and looking through and working through these deals, but that's one of the important takeaways I hope the users—or the listeners of this podcast then take away that you want to treat your cloud provider as your partner as much as possible. They're not always there to screw you. That's not their goal. And I apologize for using that term. It is important that you set that expectations that it's in their best interest to actually make you successful because that's how they make money as well.Corey: It's a long-term play. I mean, they could gouge you this quarter, and then you're trying to evacuate as fast as possible. Well, they had a great quarter, but what's their long-term prospect? There are two competing philosophies in the world of business; you can either make a lot of money quickly, or you can make a little bit of money and build it over time in a sustained way. And it's clear the cloud providers are playing the long game on this because they basically have to.Micheal: I mean, it's inevitable at this point. I mean, look at Pinterest. It is one of those success stories. Starting as a Django app on a bunch of EC2 machines to wherever we are right now with having a three-plus billion dollar commitment over a span of couple of years, and we do spend a pretty significant chunk of that on a yearly basis. So, in this case, I'm sure it was a great successful partnership.And I'm hoping some of the newer companies who are building the cloud from the get-go are thinking about it from that perspective. And one of the things I do want to call out, Corey, is that we did initially start with using the primitive services in AWS, but it became clear over time—and I'm sure you heard of the term multi-cloud and many of that—you know, when companies start evaluating how to make the most out of the deals they're negotiating or signing, it is important to acknowledge that the cost of any of those evaluations or even thinking about migrations never tends to get factored in. And we always tend to treat that as being extremely simple or not, but those are engineering resources you want to be spending more building on the product rather than these crazy costly migrations. So, it's in your best interest probably to start using the most from your cloud provider, and also look for opportunities to use other cloud providers—if they provide more value in certain product offerings—rather than thinking about a complete lift-and-shift, and I'm going to make DR as being the primary case on why I want to be moving to multi-cloud.Corey: Yeah. There's a question, too, of the numbers on paper look radically different than the reality of this. You mentioned, Pinterest has been on AWS since the beginning, which means that even if an edict had been passed at the beginning, that, “Thou shalt never build on anything except EC2 and S3. The end. Full stop.”And let's say you went down that rabbit hole of, “Oh, we don't trust their load balancers. We're going to build our own at home. We have load balancers at home. We'll use those.” It's terrible, but even had you done that and restricted yourselves just to those baseline building blocks, and then decide to do a cloud migration, you're still looking back at over a decade of experience where the app has been built unconsciously reflecting the various failure modes that AWS has, the way that it responds to API calls, the latency in how long it takes to request something versus it being available, et cetera, et cetera.So, even moving that baseline thing to another cloud provider is not a trivial undertaking by any stretch of the imagination. But that said—because the topic does always come up, and I don't shy away from it; I think it's something people should go into with an open mind—how has the multi-cloud conversation progressed at Pinterest? Because there's always a multi-cloud conversation.Micheal: We have always approached it with some form of… openness. It's not like we don't want to be open to the ideas, but you really want to be thinking hard on the business case and the business value something provides on why you want to be doing x. In this case, when we think about multi-cloud—and again, Pinterest did start with EC2 and S3, and we did keep it that way for a long time. We built a lot of primitives around it, used it—for example, my team actually runs our bread and butter deployment system on EC2. We help facilitate deployments across a 100,000-plus machines today.And like you said, we have built that system keeping in mind how AWS works, and understanding the nuances of region and AZ failovers and all of that, and help facilitate deployments across 1000-plus microservices in the company. So, thinking about leveraging, say, a Google Cloud instance and how that works, in theory, we can always make a case for engineering to build our deployment system and expand there, but there's really no value. And one of the biggest cases, usually, when multi-cloud comes in is usually either negotiation for price or actually a DR strategy. Like, what if AWS goes down in and us-east-1? Well, let's be honest, they're powering half the internet [laugh] from that one single—Corey: Right.Micheal: Yeah. So, if you think your business is okay running when AWS goes down and half the internet is not going to be working, how do you want to be thinking about that? So, DR is probably not the best reason for you to be even exploring multi-cloud. Rather, you should be thinking about what the cloud providers are offering as a very nuanced offering which your current cloud provider is not offering, and really think about just using those specific items.Corey: So, I agree that multi-cloud for DR purposes is generally not necessarily the best approach with the idea of being able to failover seamlessly, but I like the idea for backups. I mean, Pinterest is a publicly-traded company, which means that among other things, you have to file risk disclosures and be responsive to auditors in a variety of different ways. There are some regulations to start applying to you. And the idea of, well, AWS builds things out in a super effective way, region separation, et cetera, whenever I talk to Amazonians, they are always surprised that anyone wouldn't accept that, “Oh, if you want backups use a different region. Problem solved.”Right, but it is often easier for me to have a rehydrate the business level of backup that would take weeks to redeploy living on another cloud provider than it is for me to explain to all of those auditors and regulators and financial analysts, et cetera why I didn't go ahead and do that path. So, there's always some story for okay, what if AWS decides that they hate us and want to kick us off the platform? Well, that's why legal is involved in those high-level discussions around things like risk, and indemnity, and termination for convenience and for cause clauses, et cetera, et cetera. The idea of making an all-in commitment to a cloud provider goes well beyond things that engineering thinks about. And it's easy for those of us with engineering backgrounds to be incredibly dismissive of that of, “Oh, indemnity? Like, when does AWS ever lose data?” “Yeah, but let's say one day they do. What is your story going to be when asked some very uncomfortable questions by people who wanted you to pay attention to this during the negotiation process?” It's about dotting the i's and crossing the t's, especially with that many commas in the contractual commitments.Micheal: No, it is true. And we did evaluate that as an option, but one of the interesting things about compliance, and especially auditing as well, we generally work with the best in class consultants to help us work through the controls and how we audit, how we look at these controls, how to make sure there's enough accountability going through. The interesting part was in this case, as well, we were able to work with AWS in crafting a lot of those controls and setting up the right expectations as and when we were putting proposals together as well. Now, again, I'm not an expert on this and I know we have a dedicated team from our technical program management organization focused on this, but early on we realized that, to your point, the cost of any form of backups and then being able to audit what's going in, look at all those pipelines, how quickly we can get the data in and out it was proving pretty costly for us. So, we were able to work out some of that within the constructs of what we have with our cloud provider today, and still meet our compliance goals.Corey: That's, on some level, the higher point, too, where everything is everything comes down to context; everything comes down to what the business demands, what the business requires, what the business will accept. And I'm not suggesting that in any case, they're wrong. I'm known for beating the ‘Multi-cloud is a bad default decision' drum, and then people get surprised when they'll have one-on-one conversations, and they say, “Well, we're multi-cloud. Do you think we're foolish?” “No. You're probably doing the right thing, just because you have context that is specific to your business that I, speaking in a general sense, certainly don't have.”People don't generally wake up in the morning and decide they're going to do a terrible job or no job at all at work today, unless they're Facebook's VP of Integrity. So, it's not the sort of thing that lends itself to casual tweet size, pithy analysis very often. There's a strong dive into what is the level of risk a business can accept? And my general belief is that most companies are doing this stuff right. The universal constant in all of my consulting clients that I have spoken to about the in-depth management piece of things is, they've always asked the same question of, “So, this is what we've done, but can you introduce us to the people who are doing it really right, who have absolutely nailed this and gotten it all down?” “It's, yeah, absolutely no one believes that that is them, even the folks who are, from my perspective, pretty close to having achieved it.”But I want to talk a bit more about what you do beyond just the headline-grabbing large dollar figure commitment to a cloud provider story. What does engineering productivity mean at Pinterest? Where do you start? Where do you stop?Micheal: I want to just quickly touch upon that last point about multi-cloud, and like you said, every company works within the context of what they are given and the constraints of their business. It's probably a good time to give a plug to my previous employer, Twitter, who are doing multi-cloud in a reasonably effective way. They are on the data centers, they do have presence on Google Cloud, and AWS, and I know probably things have changed since a couple of years now, but they have embraced that environment pretty effectively to cater to their acquisitions who were on the public cloud, help obviously, with their initial set of investments in the data center, and still continue to scale that out, and explore, in this case, Google Cloud for a variety of other use cases, which sounds like it's been extremely beneficial as well.So, to your point, there is probably no right way to do this. There's always that context, and what you're working with comes into play as part of making these decisions. And it's important to take a lot of these with a grain of salt because you can never understand the decisions, why they were made the way they were made. And for what it's worth, it sort of works out in the end. [laugh]. I've rarely heard a story where it's never worked out, and people are just upset with the deals they've signed. So, hopefully, that helps close that whole conversation about multi-cloud.Corey: I hope so. It's one of those areas where everyone has an opinion and a lot of them do not necessarily apply universally, but it's always fun to take—in that case, great, I'll take the lesser trod path of everyone's saying multi-cloud is great, invariably because they're trying to sell you something. Yeah, I have nothing particularly to sell, folks. My argument has always been, in the absence of a compelling reason not to, pick a provider and go all in. I don't care which provider you pick—which people are sometimes surprised to hear.It's like, “Well, what if they pick a cloud provider that you don't do consulting work for?” Yeah, it turns out, I don't actually need to win every AWS customer over to have a successful working business. Do what makes sense for you, folks. From my perspective, I want this industry to be better. I don't want to sit here and just drum up business for myself and make self-serving comments to empower that. Which apparently is a rare tactic.Micheal: No, that's totally true, Corey. One of the things you do is help people with their bills, so this has come up so many times, and I realize we're sort of going off track a bit from that engineering productivity discussion—Corey: Oh, which is fine. That's this entire show's theme, if it has one.Micheal: [laugh]. So, I want to briefly just talk about the whole billing and how cost management works because I know you spend a lot of time on that and you help a lot of these companies be effective in how they manage their bills. These questions have come up multiple times, even at Pinterest. We actually in the past, when I was leading the infrastructure governance organization, we were working with other companies of our similar size to better understand how they are looking into getting visibility into their cost, setting sort of the right controls and expectations within the engineering organization to plan, and capacity plan, and effectively meet those plans in a certain criteria, and then obviously, if there is any risk to that, actively manage risk. That was like the biggest thing those teams used to do.And we used to talk a lot trade notes, and get a better sense of how a lot of these companies are trying to do—for example, Netflix, or Lyft, or Stripe. I recall Netflix, content was their biggest spender, so cloud spending was like way down in the list of things for them. [laugh]. But regardless, they had an active team looking at this on a day-to-day basis. So, one of the things we learned early on at Pinterest is that start investing in those visibility tools early on.No one can parse the cloud bills. Let's be honest. You're probably the only person who can reverse… [laugh] engineer an architecture diagram from a cloud bill, and I think that's like—definitely you should take a patent for that or something. But in reality, no one has the time to do that. You want to make sure your business leaders, from your finance teams to engineering teams to head of the executives all have a better understanding of how to parse it.So, investing engineering resources, take that data, how do you munch it down to the cost, the utilization across the different vectors of offerings, and have a very insightful discussion. Like, what are certain action items we want to be taking? It's very easy to see, “Oh, we overspent EC2,” and we want to go from there. But in reality, that's not just that thing; you will start finding out that EC2 is being used by your Hadoop infrastructure, which runs hundreds of thousands of jobs. Okay, now who's actually responsible for that cost? You might find that one job which is accruing, sort of, a lot of instance hours over a period of time and a shared multi-tenant environment, how do you attribute that cost to that particular cost center?Corey: And then someone left the company a while back, and that job just kept running in perpetuity. No one's checked the output for four years, I guess it can't be that necessarily important. And digging into it requires context. It turns out, there's no SaaS tool to do this, which is unfortunate for those of us who set out originally to build such a thing. But we discovered pretty early on the context on this stuff is incredibly important.I love the thing you're talking about here, where you're discussing with your peer companies about these things because the advice that I would give to companies with the level of spend that you folks do is worlds apart from what I would advise someone who's building something new and spending maybe 500 bucks a month on their cloud bill. Those folks do not need to hire a dedicated team of people to solve for these problems. At your scale, yeah, you probably should have had some people in [laugh] here looking at this for a while now. And at some point, the guidance changes based upon scale. And if there's one thing that we discover from the horrible pages of Hacker News, it's that people love applying bits of wisdom that they hear in wildly inappropriate situations.How do you think about these things at that scale? Because, a simple example: right now I spend about 1000 bucks a month at The Duckbill Group, on our AWS bill. I know. We have one, too. Imagine that. And if I wind up just committing admin credentials to GitHub, for example, and someone compromises that and start spinning things up to mine all the Bitcoin, yeah, I'm going to notice that by the impact it has on the bill, which will be noticeable from orbit.At the level of spend that you folks are at, at company would be hard-pressed to spin up enough Bitcoin miners to materially move the billing needle on a month-to-month basis, just because of the sheer scope and scale. At small bill volumes, yeah, it's pretty easy to discover the thing that spiking your bill to three times normal. It's usually a managed NAT gateway. At your scale, tripling the bill begins to look suspiciously like the GDP of a small country, so what actually happened here? Invariably, at that scale, with that level of massive multiplier, it's usually the simplest solution, an error somewhere in the AWS billing system. Yes, they exist. Imagine that.Micheal: They do exist, and we've encountered that.Corey: Kind of heartstopping, isn't it?Micheal: [laugh]. I don't know if you remember when we had the big Spectre and the Meltdown, right, and those were interesting scenarios for us because we had identified a lot of those issues early on, given the scale we operate, and we were able to, sort of, obviously it did have an impact on the builds and everything, but that's it; that's why you have these dedicated teams to fix that. But I think one of the points you made, these are large bills and you're never going to have a 3x jump the next day. We're not going to be seeing that. And if that happens, you know, God save us. [laugh].But to your point, one of the things we do still want to be doing is look at trends, literally on a week-over-week basis because even a one percentage move is a pretty significant amount, if you think about it, which could be funding some other aspects of the business, which we would prefer to be investing on. So, we do want to have enough rigor and controls in place in our technical stack to identify and alert when something is off track. And it becomes challenging when you start using those higher-order services from your public cloud provider because there's no clear insights on how do you, kind of, parse that information. One of the biggest challenges we had at Pinterest was tying ownership to all these things.No, using tags is not going to cut it. It was so difficult for us to get to a point where we could put some sense of ownership in all the things and the resources people are using, and then subsequently have the right conversation with our ads infrastructure teams, or our product teams to help drive the cost improvements we want to be seeing. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's not a challenge already, even for the smaller companies who have bills in the tunes of tens and thousands, right?Corey: It is. It's predicting the spend and trying to categorize it appropriately; that's the root of all AWS bill panic on the corporate level. It's not that the bill is 20% higher, so we're going to go broke. Most companies spend far more on payroll than they do on infrastructure—as you mentioned with Netflix, content is a significantly larger [laugh] expense than any of those things; real estate, it's usually right up there too—but instead it's, when you're trying to do business forecasting of, okay, if we're going to have an additional 1000 monthly active users, what will the cost for us be to service those users and, okay, if we're seeing a sudden 20% variance, if that's the new normal, then well, that does change our cost projections for a number of years, what happens? When you're public, there starts to become the question of okay, do we have to restate earnings or what's the deal here?And of course, all this sidesteps past the unfortunate reality that, for many companies, the AWS bill is not a function of how many customers you have; it's how many engineers you hired. And that is always the way it winds up playing out for some reason. “It's why did we see a 10% increase in the bill? Yeah, we hired another data science team. Oops.” It's always seems to be the data science folks; I know I'd beat up on those folks a fair bit, and my apologies. And one day, if they analyze enough of the data, they might figure out why.Micheal: So, this is where I want to give a shout out to our data science team, especially some of the engineers working in the Infrastructure Governance Team putting these charts together, helping us derive insights. So, definitely props to them.I think there's a great segue into the point you made. As you add more engineers, what is the impact on the bottom line? And this is one of the things actually as part of engineering productivity, we think about as well on a long-term basis. Pinterest does have over 1000-plus engineers today, and to large degree, many of them actually have their own EC2 instances today. And I wouldn't say it's a significant amount of cost, but it is a large enough number, were shutting down a c5.9xl can actually fund a bunch of conference tickets or something else.And then you can imagine that sort of the scale you start working with at one point. The nuance here is though, you want to make sure there's enough flexibility for these engineers to do their local development in a sustainable way, but when moving to, say production, we really want to tighten the flexibility a bit so they don't end up doing what you just said, spin up a bunch of machines talking to the API directly which no one will be aware of.I want to share a small anecdote because when back in the day, this was probably four years ago, when we were doing some analysis on our bills, we realized that there was a huge jump every—I believe Wednesday—in our EC2 instances by almost a factor of, like, 500 to 600 instances. And we're like, “Why is this happening? What is going on?” And we found out there was an obscure job written by someone who had left the company, calling an EC2 API to spin up a search cluster of 500 machines on-demand, as part of pulling that ETL data together, and then shutting that cluster down. Which at times didn't work as expected because, you know, obviously, your Hadoop jobs are very predictable, right?So, those are the things we were dealing with back in the day, and you want to make sure—since then—this is where engineering productivity as team starts coming in that our job is to enable every engineer to be doing their best work across code building and deploying the services. And we have done this.Corey: Right. You and I can sit here and have an in-depth conversation about the intricacies of AWS billing in a bunch of different ways because in different ways we both specialize in it, in many respects. But let's say that Pinterest theoretically was foolish enough to hire me before I got into this space as an engineer, for terrifying reasons. And great. I start day one as a typical software developer if such a thing could be said to exist. How do you effectively build guardrails in so that I don't inadvertently wind up spinning up all the EC2 instances available to me within an account, which it turns out are more than one might expect sometimes, but still leave me free to do my job without effectively spending a nine-month safari figuring out how AWS bills work?Micheal: And this is why teams like ours exist, to help provide those tools to help you get started. So today, we actually don't let anyone directly use AWS APIs, or even use the UI for that matter. And I think you'll soon realize, the moment you hit, like, probably 30 or 40 people in your organization, you definitely want to lock it down. You don't want that access to be given to anyone or everyone. And then subsequently start building some higher-order tools or abstraction so people can start using that to control effectively.In this case, if you're a new engineer, Corey, which it seems like you were, at some point—Corey: I still write code like I am, don't worry.Micheal: [laugh]. So yes, you would get access to our internal tool to actually help spin up what we call is a dev app, where you get a chance to, obviously, choose the instance size, not the instance type itself, and we have actually constrained the instance types we have approved within Pinterest as well. We don't give you the entire list you get a chance to choose and deploy to. We actually have constraint to based on the workload types, what are the instance types we want to support because in the future, if we ever want to move from c3 to c5—and I've been there, trust me—it is not an easy thing to do, so you want to make sure that you're not letting people just use random instances, and constrain that by building some of these tools. As a new engineer, you would go in, you'd use the tool, and actually have a dev app provisioned for you with our Pinterest image to get you started.And then subsequently, we'll obviously shut it down if we see you not being using it over a certain amount of time, but those are sort of the guardrails we've put in over there so you never get a chance to directly ever use the EC2 APIs, or any of those AWS APIs to do certain things. The similar thing applies for S3 or any of the higher-order tools which AWS will provide, too.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle Cloud. 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Visit https://snark.cloud/oci-free that's https://snark.cloud/oci-free.Corey: How does that interplay with AWS launches yet another way to run containers, for example, and that becomes a valuable potential avenue to get some business value for a developer, but the platform you built doesn't necessarily embrace that capability? Or they release a feature to an existing tool that you use that could potentially be a just feature capability story, much more so than a cost savings one. How do you keep track of all of that and empower people to use those things so they're not effectively trying to reimplement DynamoDB on top of EC2?Micheal: That's been a challenge, actually, in the past for us because we've always been very flexible where engineers have had an opportunity to write their own solutions many a times rather than leveraging the AWS services, and of late, that's one of the reasons why we have an infrastructure organization—an extremely lean organization for what it's worth—but then still able to achieve outsized outputs. Where we evaluate a lot of these use cases, as they come in and open up different aspects of what we want to provide say directly from AWS, or build certain abstractions on top of it. Every time we talk about containers, obviously, we always associate that with something like Kubernetes and offerings from there on; we realized that our engineers directly never ask for those capabilities. They don't come in and say, “I need a new container orchestration system. Give that to me, and I'm going to be extremely productive.”What people actually realize is that if you can provide them effective tools and that can help them get their job done, they would be happy with it. For example, like I said, our deployment system, which is actually an open-source system called Teletraan. That is the bread and butter at Pinterest at which my team runs. We operate 100,000-plus machines. We have actually looked into container orchestration where we do have a dedicated Kubernetes team looking at it and helping certain use cases moved there, but we realized that the cost of entire migrations need to be evaluated against certain use cases which can benefit from being on Kubernetes from day one. You don't want to force anyone to move there, but give them the right incentives to move there. Case in point, let's upgrade your OS. Because if you're managing machines, obviously everyone loves to upgrade their OSes.Corey: Well, it's one of the things I love savings plans versus RIs; you talk about the c3 to c5 migration and everyone has a story about one of those, but the most foolish or frustrating reason that I ever saw not to do the upgrade was what we bought a bunch of Reserved Instances on the C3s and those have a year-and-a-half left to run. And it's foolish not on the part of customers—it's economically sound—but on the part of AWS where great, you're now forcing me to take a contractual commitment to something that serves me less effectively, rather than getting out of the way and letting me do my job. That's why it's so important to me at least, that savings plans cover Fargate and Lambda, I wish they covered SageMaker instead of SageMaker having its own thing because once again, you're now architecturally constrained based upon some ridiculous economic model that they have imposed on us. But that's a separate rant for another time.Micheal: No, we actually went through that process because we do have a healthy balance of how we do Reserved Instances and how we look at on-demand. We've never been big users have spot in the past because just the spot market itself, we realized that putting that pressure on our customers to figure out how to manage that is way more. When I say customers, in this case, engineers within the organization.Corey: Oh, yes. “I want to post some pictures on Pinterest, so now I have to understand the spot market. What?” Yeah.Micheal: [laugh]. So, in this case, when we even we're moving from C3 to C5—and this is where the partnership really plays out effectively, right, because it's also in the best interest of AWS to deprecate their aging hardware to support some of these new ones where they could also be making good enough premium margins for what it's worth and give the benefit back to the user. So, in this case, we were able to work out an extremely flexible way of moving to a C5 as soon as possible, get help from them, actually, in helping us do that, too, allocating capacity and working with them on capacity management. I believe at one point, we were actually one of the largest companies with a C3 footprint and it took quite a while for us to move to C5. But rest assured, once we moved, the savings was just immense. We were able to offset any of those RI and we were able to work behind the scenes to get that out. But obviously, not a lot of that is considered in a small-scale company just because of, like you said, those constraints which have been placed in a contractual obligation.Corey: Well, this is an area in which I will give the same guidance to companies of your scale as well as small-scale companies. And by small-scale, I mean, people on the free tier account, give or take, so I do mean the smallest of the small. Whenever you wind up in a scenario where you find yourself architecturally constrained by an economic barrier like this, reach out to your account manager. I promise you have one. Every account, even the tiny free tier accounts, have an account manager.I have an account manager, who I have to say has probably one of the most surreal jobs that AWS, just based upon the conversations I throw past him. But it's reaching out to your provider rather than trying to solve a lot of this stuff yourself by constraining how you're building things internally is always the right first move because the worst case is you don't get anywhere in those conversations. Okay, but at least you explored that, as opposed to what often happens is, “Oh, yeah. I have a switch over here I can flip and solve your entire problem. Does that help anything?”Micheal: Yeah.Corey: You feel foolish finding that out only after nine months of dedicated work, it turns out.Micheal: Which makes me wonder, Corey. I mean, do you see a lot of that happening where folks don't tend to reach out to their account managers, or rather treat them as partners in this case, right? Because it sounds like there is this unhealthy tension, I would say, as to what is the best help you could be getting from your account managers in this case.Corey: Constantly. And the challenge comes from a few things, in my experience. The first is that the quality of account managers and the technical account managers—the folks who are embedded many cases with your engineering teams in different ways—does vary. AWS is scaling wildly and bursting at the seams, and people are hard to scale.So, some are fantastic, some are decidedly less so, and most folks fall somewhere in the middle of that bell curve. And it doesn't take too many poor experiences for the default to be, “Oh, those people are useless. They never do anything we want, so why bother asking them?” And that leads to an unhealthy dynamic where a lot of companies will wind up treating their AWS account manager types as a ticket triage system, or the last resort of places that they'll turn when they should be involved in earlier conversations.I mean, take Pinterest as an example of this. I'm not sure how many technical account managers you have assigned to your account, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the ratio of technical account managers to engineers working on the environment is incredibly lopsided. It's got to be a high ratio just because of the nature of how these things work. So, there are a lot of people who are actively working on things that would almost certainly benefit from a more holistic conversation with your AWS account team, but it doesn't occur to them to do it just because of either perceived biases around levels of competence, or poor experiences in the past, or simply not knowing the capabilities that are there. If I could tell one story around the AWS account management story, it would be talk to folks sooner about these things.And to be clear, Pinterest has this less than other folks, but AWS does themselves no favors by having a product strategy of, “Yes,” because very often in service of those conversations with a number of companies, there is the very real concern of are they doing research so that they can launch a service that competes with us? Amazon as a whole launching a social network is admittedly one of the most hilarious ideas I [laugh] can come up with and I hope they take a whack at it just to watch them learn all these lessons themselves, but that is again, neither here nor there.Micheal: That story is very interesting, and I think you mentioned one thing; it's just that lack of trust, or even knowing what the account managers can actually do for you. There seems to be just a lack of education on that. And we also found it the hard way, right? I wouldn't say that Pinterest figured this out on day one. We evolved sort of a relationship over time. Yes, our time… engagements are, sort of, lopsided, but we were able to negotiate that as part of deals as we learned a bit more on what we can and we cannot do, and how these individuals are beneficial for Pinterest as well. And—Corey: Well, here's a question for you, without naming names—and this might illustrate part of the challenge customers have—how long has your account manager—not the technical account managers, but your account manager—been assigned to your account?Micheal: I've been at Pinterest for five years and I've been working with the same person. And he's amazing.Corey: Which is incredibly atypical. At a lot of smaller companies, it feels like, “Oh, I'm your account manager being introduced to you.” And, “Are you the third one this year? Great.” What happens is that if the account manager excels, very often they get promoted and work with a smaller number of accounts at larger spend, and whereas if they don't find that AWS is a great place for them for a variety of reasons, they go somewhere else and need to be backfilled.So, at the smaller account, it's, “Great. I've had more account managers in a year than you've had in five.” And that is often the experience when you start seeing significant levels of rotation, especially on the customer engineering side where you wind up with you have this big kickoff, and everyone's aware of all the capabilities and you look at it three years later, and not a single person who was in that kickoff is still involved with the account on either side, and it's just sort of been evolving evolutionarily from there. One thing that we've done in some of our larger accounts as part of our negotiation process is when we see that the bridges have been so thoroughly burned, we will effectively request a full account team cycle, just because it's time to get new faces in where the customer, in many cases unreasonably, is not going to say, “Yeah but a year-and-a-half ago you did this terrible thing and we're still salty about it.” Fine, whatever. I get it. People relationships are hard. Let's go ahead and swap some folks out so that there are new faces with new perspectives because that helps.Micheal: Well, first off, if you had so many switches in account manager, I think that's something speaks about [laugh] how you've been working, too. I'm just kidding. There are a bu—Corey: Entirely possible. In seriousness, yes. But if you talk to—like, this is not just me because in my case, yeah, I feel like my account manager is whoever drew the short straw that week because frankly, yeah, that does seem like a great punishment to wind up passing out to someone who is underperforming. But for a lot of folks who are in the mid-tier, like, spending $50 to $100,000 a month, this is a very common story.Micheal: Yeah. Actually, we've heard a bit about this, too. And like you said, I think maintaining context is the most thing. You really want your account manager to vouch for you, really be your champion in those meetings because AWS, like you said is so large, getting those exec time, and reviews, and there's so many things that happen, your account manager is the champion for you, or right there. And it's important and in fact in your best interest to have a great relationship with them as well, not treat them as, oh yet another vendor.And I think that's where things start to get a bit messy because when you start treating them as yet another vendor, there is no incentive for them to do the best for you, too. You know, people relationships are hard. But that said though, I think given the amount of customers like these cloud companies are accruing, I wouldn't be surprised; every account manager seems to be extremely burdened. Even in our case, although I've been having a chance to work with this one person for a long time, we've actually expanded. We have now multiple account managers helping us out as we've started scaling to use certain aspects of AWS which we've never explored before.We were a bit constrained and reserved about what service we want to use because there have been instances where we have tried using something and we have hit the wall pretty immediately. API rate limits, or it's not ready for primetime, and we're like, “Oh, my God. Now, what do we do?” So, we have a bit more cautious. But that said, over time, having an account manager who understands how you work, what scale you have, they're able to advocate with the internal engineering teams within the cloud provider to make the best of supporting you as a customer and tell that success story all the way out.So yeah, I can totally understand how this may be hard, especially for those small companies. For what it's worth, I think the best way to really think about it is not treat them as your vendor, but really go out on a limb there. Even though you signed a deal with them, you want to make sure that you have the continuing relationship with them to have—represent your voice better within the company. Which is probably hard. [laugh].Corey: That's always the hard part. Honestly, if this were the sort of thing that were easy to automate, or you could wind up building out something that winds up helping companies figure out how to solve these things programmatically, talk about interesting business problems that are only going to get larger in the fullness of time. This is not going away, even if AWS stopped signing up new customers entirely right now, they would still have years of growth ahead of them just from organic growth. And take a company with the scale of Pinterest and just think of how many years it would take to do a full-on exodus, even if it became priority number one. It's not realistic in many cases, which is why I've never been a big fan of multi-cloud as an approach for negotiation. Yeah, AWS has more data on those points than any of us do; they're not worried about it. It just makes you sound like an unsophisticated negotiator. Pick your poison and lean in.Micheal: That is the truth you just mentioned, and I probably want to give a call out to our head of infrastructure, [Coburn 00:42:13]. He's also my boss, and he had brought this perspective as well. As part of any negotiation discussions, like you just said, AWS has way more data points on this than what we think we can do in terms of talking about, “Oh, we are exploring this other cloud provider.” And it's—they would be like, “Yeah. Do tell me more [laugh] how that's going.”And it's probably in the best interest to never use that as a negotiation tactic because they clearly know the investments that's going to build on what you've done, so you might as well be talking more—again, this is where that relationship really plays together because you want both of them to be successful. And it's in their best interest to still keep you happy because the good thing about at least companies of our size is that we're probably, like, one phone call away from some of their executive team, where we could always talk about what didn't work for us. And I know not everyone has that opportunity, but I'm really hoping and I know at least with some of the interactions we've had with the AWS teams, they're actively working and building that relationship more and more, giving access to those customer advisory boards, and all of them to have those direct calls with the executives. I don't know whether you've seen that in your experience in helping some of these companies?Corey: Have a different approach to it. It turns out when you're super loud and public and noisy about AWS and spend too much time in Seattle, you start to spend time with those people on a social basis. Because, again, I'm obnoxious and annoying to a lot of AWS folks, but I'm also having an obnoxious habit of being right in most of the things I'm pointing out. And that becomes harder and harder to ignore. I mean, part of the value that I found in being able to do this as a consultant is that I begin to compare and contrast different customer environments on a consistent ongoing basis.I mean, the reason that negotiation works well from my perspective is that AWS does a bunch of these every week, and customers do these every few years with AWS. And well, we do an awful lot of them, too, and it's okay, we've seen different ways things can get structured and it doesn't take too long and too many engagements before you start to see the points of commonality in how these things flow together. So, when we wind up seeing things that a customer is planning on architecturally and looking to do in the future, and, “Well, wait a minute. Have you talked to the folks negotiating the contract about this? Because that does potentially have bearing and it provides better data than what AWS is gathering just through looking at overall spend trends. So yeah, bring that up. That is absolutely going to impact the type of offer you get.”It just comes down to understanding the motivators that drive folks and it comes down to, I think understanding the incentives. I will say that across the board, I have never yet seen a deal from AWS come through where it was, “Okay, at this point you're just trying to hoodwink the customer and get them to sign on something that doesn't help them.” I've seen mistakes that can definitely lead to that impression, and I've seen areas where they're doing data is incomplete and they're making assumptions that are not borne out in reality. But it's not one of those bad faith type—Micheal: Yeah.Corey: —of negotiations. If it were, I would be framing a lot of this very differently. It sounds weird to say, “Yeah, your vendor is not trying to screw you over in this sense,” because look at the entire IT industry. How often has that been true about almost any other vendor in the fullness of time? This is something a bit different, and I still think we're trying to grapple with the repercussions of that, from a negotiation standpoint and from a long-term business continuity standpoint, when your faith is linked—in a shared fate context—with your vendor.Micheal: It's in their best interest as well because they're trying to build a diversified portfolio. Like, if they help 100 companies, even if one of them becomes the next Pinterest, that's great, right? And that continued relationship is what they're aiming for. So, assuming any bad faith over there probably is not going to be the best outcome, like you said. And two, it's not a zero-sum game.I always get a sense that when you're doing these negotiations, it's an all-or-nothing deal. It's not. You have to think they're also running a business and it's important that you as your business, how okay are you with some of those premiums? You cannot get a discount on everything, you cannot get the deal or the numbers you probably want almost everything. And to your point, architecturally, if you're moving in a certain direction where you think in the next three years, this is what your usage is going to be or it will come down to that, obviously, you should be investing more and negotiating that out front rather than managed NAT [laugh] gateways, I guess. So, I think that's also an important mindset to take in as part of any of these negotiations. Which I'm assuming—I don't know how you folks have been working in the past, but at least that's one of the key items we have taken in as part of any of these discussions.Corey: I would agree wholeheartedly. I think that it just comes down to understanding where you're going, what's important, and again in some cases knowing around what things AWS will never bend contractually. I've seen companies spend six weeks or more trying to get to negotiate custom SLAs around services. Let me save everyone a bunch of time and money; they will not grant them to you.Micheal: Yeah.Corey: I promise. So, stop asking for them; you're not going to get them. There are other things they will negotiate on that they're going to be highly case-dependent. I'm hesitant to mention any of them just because, “Well, wait a minute, we did that once. Why are you talking about that in public?” I don't want to hear it and confidentiality matters. But yeah, not everything is negotiable, but most things are, so figuring out what levers and knobs and dials you have is important.Micheal: We also found it that way. AWS does cater to their—they are a platform and they are pretty clear in how much engagement—even if we are one of their top customers, there's been many times where I know their product managers have heavily pushed back on some of the requests we have put in. And that makes me wonder, they probably have the same engagement even with the smallest of customers, there's always an implicit assumption that the big fish is trying to get the most out of your public cloud providers. To your point, I don't think that's true. We're rarely able to negotiate anything exclusive in terms of their product offerings just for us, if that makes sense.Case in point, tell us your capacity [laugh] for x instances or type of instances, so we as a company would know how to plan out our scale-ups or scale-downs. That's not going to happen exclusively for you. But those kind of things are just, like, examples we have had a chance to work with their product managers and see if, can we get some flexibility on that? For what it's worth, though, they are willing to find a middle ground with you to make sure that you get your answers and, obviously, you're being successful in your plans to use certain technologies they offer or [unintelligible 00:48:31] how you use their services.Corey: So, I know we've gone significantly over time and we are definitely going to do another episode talking about a lot of the other things that you're involved in because I'm going to assume that your full-time job is not worrying about the AWS bill. In fact, you do a fair number of things beyond that; I just get stuck on that one, given that it is but I eat, sleep, breathe, and dream about.Micheal: Absolutely. I would love to talk more, especially about how we're enabling our engineers to be extremely productive in this new world, and how we want to cater to this whole cloud-native environment which is being created, and make sure people are doing their best work. But regardless, Corey, I mean, this has been an amazing, insightful chat, even for me. And I really appreciate you having me on the show.Corey: No, thank you for joining me. If people want to learn more about what you're up to, and how you think about things, where can they find you? Because I'm also going to go out on a limb and assume you're also probably hiring, given that everyone seems to be these days.Micheal: Well, that is true. And I wasn't planning to make a hiring pitch but I'm glad that you leaned into that one. Yes, we are hiring and you can find me on Twitter at twitter dot com slash M-I-C-H-E-A-L. I am spelled a bit differently, so make sure you can hit me up, and my DMs are open. And obviously, we have all our open roles listed on pinterestcareers.com as well.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to that in the [show notes 00:49:45]. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I really appreciate it.Micheal: Thank you, Corey. It was really been great on your show.Corey: And I'm sure we'll do it again in the near future. Micheal Benedict, Head of Engineering Productivity at Pinterest. I am Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a long rambling comment about exactly how many data centers Pinterest could build instead.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

The Kenny Ho Show
Sewer Rat Amazonians

The Kenny Ho Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 3, 2021 33:32


A scintillating conversation about poverty and such.

TV Podcast Industries
Y The Last Man Episode 9 Peppers Podcast on TV Podcast Industries

TV Podcast Industries

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2021 74:24


We discuss the penultimate episode of Y The Last Man Episode 9 "Peppers". Three major storylines are significantly advanced ahead of the season finale. Y The Last Man Episode 9 Synopsis and Details Based on the comic series Y The Last Man by: Brian K Vaughn and Pia Guerra Showrunner: Eliza Clark Teleplay Written by: Katie Edgerton Episode Directed by: Cheryl Dunye While Yorick relaxes into the new community of former prison inmates with a Happy Friday party, manicures and the weekly joint both Agent 355 and Dr Alison Mann are still cautious of their new surroundings. Feeling safe Yorick, begins to open up and trust Sonia; but Agent 355, still recovering from her concussion and with her persistent memory flashbacks, becomes wary of Sonia after she asks too many questions. Meanwhile at the Pentagon tensions come to a head as Jennifer is publicly challenged by Regina Oliver and Kimberley about Yorick and Agent Bergman. With a loss of confidence in Jennifer, by both her cabinet and the military, Regina looks to install herself as President just as a new threat emerges. Deep beneath the Pentagon, Beth and her fellow conspirators explode their way into the building capturing and holding hostage the political leaders. As chaos breaks out inside and outside the Pentagon, Regina is executed by one of the insurgents. As the military fights back, Jennifer and Beth become separated from Christine and Kimberley as they look to survive the bullets and tear gas. Elsewhere, the newly formed Amazonians head out on the road for supplies. An attack on the Museum of Man, in memory of all the men that died in the event, shows up the differences between Nora and Roxanne. While Nora is annoyed that she is with children destroying everything in their way including food and water, Roxanne is frustrated that Nora is more interested in groceries than punishment. But in the aftermath of their attack , Nora, in an attempt to build bridges with Roxanne, agrees to her idea to track down possible male survivors that have been documented by the museum in the area. Their first mission is a sighting of a man close to a town with running water and electricity. There have been multiple sightings of this man, described as wearing a heavy raincoat with his face covered by a gas mask. Y The Last Man Episode 9 Cast President Jennifer Brown played by Diane LaneHero Brown played by Olivia Thirlby Nora Brady played by Marin IrelandRoxanne played by Missi PyleAgent 355 played by Ashley RomansYorick Brown played by Ben SchnetzerDoctor Alison Mann played by Diana BangKimberley Campbell Cunningham played by Amber TamblynRegina Oliver played by Jennifer WigmoreChristine Flores played by Jess SalgueiroGeneral Peggy Reed played by Yanna McIntoshJanis played by Mimi KuzykSonya played by Kristen GutoskieMalika played by Natasha Mumba"Fire Axe" played by Marisa RochaAthena played by Jayli WolfKelsey played by Samantha BrownYoung Agent 355 played by Ajanae Stephenson Feedback for Y The Last Man Once you've watched the episodes you can email us to feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com, you can message us @TVPodIndustries on Twitter or join our Facebook group at https://facebook.com/groups/tvpodcastindustries and share your thoughts in our spoiler posts for each episode. Follow us and Subscribe to the Podcast If you want to keep up with us and all of our podcasts, please subscribe to the podcast over at https://tvpodcastindustries.com. Where we will continue to podcast about multiple TV shows we hope you'll love. Next time on TV Podcast Industries Thanks for joining us for our Y The Last Man Episode 9 podcast. We'll return next week with our chat about the Y The Last Man finale Episode 10 "Victoria". Make sure you get in all your feedback to us at feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com and we'll discuss it on the next podcast. This may be the final episode of the series but we hope it will be the season finale as another network pic...

Amazonian Talk
3 Mystery Men...

Amazonian Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2021 27:48


LAST BONUS! It's a first. We invited 3 men on the show at a time to give their opinion on how they would SURVIVE different "elements" of situations and relationships. #Amazonians, you know what we're talking about. How well do you think your significant other will do in an apocalyptic situation or if they were left to some house duties while you were out?

Amazonian Talk
We should talk about it...

Amazonian Talk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2021 40:38


A bonus to you #Amazonians. Nicole Simmons gives you her insight into working in the entertainment industry and what it demands at times as an independent filmmaker. How do you feel about reality TV and the way it represents women?

Screaming in the Cloud
Helping Avoid the Kubernetes Hiccups with Rich Burroughs

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 24, 2021 37:05


About RichRich Burroughs is a Senior Developer Advocate at Loft Labs where he's focused on improving workflows for developers and platform engineers using Kubernetes. He's the creator and host of the Kube Cuddle podcast where he interviews members of the Kubernetes community. He is one of the founding organizers of DevOpsDays Portland, and he's helped organize other community events. Rich has a strong interest in how working in tech impacts mental health. He has ADHD and has documented his journey on Twitter since being diagnosed.Links: Loft Labs: https://loft.sh Kube Cuddle Podcast: https://kubecuddle.transistor.fm LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richburroughs/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/richburroughs Polywork: https://www.polywork.com/richburroughs TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part my Cribl Logstream. Cirbl Logstream is an observability pipeline that lets you collect, reduce, transform, and route machine data from anywhere, to anywhere. Simple right? As a nice bonus it not only helps you improve visibility into what the hell is going on, but also helps you save money almost by accident. Kind of like not putting a whole bunch of vowels and other letters that would be easier to spell in a company name. To learn more visit: cribl.ioCorey: This episode is sponsored in part by Thinkst. This is going to take a minute to explain, so bear with me. I linked against an early version of their tool, canarytokens.org in the very early days of my newsletter, and what it does is relatively simple and straightforward. It winds up embedding credentials, files, that sort of thing in various parts of your environment, wherever you want to; it gives you fake AWS API credentials, for example. And the only thing that these things do is alert you whenever someone attempts to use those things. It's an awesome approach. I've used something similar for years. Check them out. But wait, there's more. They also have an enterprise option that you should be very much aware of canary.tools. You can take a look at this, but what it does is it provides an enterprise approach to drive these things throughout your entire environment. You can get a physical device that hangs out on your network and impersonates whatever you want to. When it gets Nmap scanned, or someone attempts to log into it, or access files on it, you get instant alerts. It's awesome. If you don't do something like this, you're likely to find out that you've gotten breached, the hard way. Take a look at this. It's one of those few things that I look at and say, “Wow, that is an amazing idea. I love it.” That's canarytokens.org and canary.tools. The first one is free. The second one is enterprise-y. Take a look. I'm a big fan of this. More from them in the coming weeks.scaCorey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Periodically, I like to have, well, let's call it fun, at the expense of developer advocates; the developer relations folks; DevRelopers as I insist on pronouncing it. But it's been a while since I've had one of those come on the show and talk about things that are happening in that universe. So, today we're going back to change that a bit. My guest today is Rich Burroughs, who's a Senior Developer Advocate—read as Senior DevReloper—at Loft Labs. Rich, thanks for joining me.Rich: Hey, Corey. Thanks for having me on.Corey: So, you've done a lot of interesting things in the space. I think we first met back when you were at Sensu, you did a stint over at Gremlin, and now you're over at Loft. Sensu was monitoring things, Gremlin was about chaos engineering and breaking things on purpose, and when you're monitoring things that are breaking that, of course, leads us to Kubernetes, which is what Loft does. I'm assuming. That's probably not your marketing copy, though, so what is it you folks do?Rich: I was waiting for your Kubernetes trash talk. I knew that was coming.Corey: Yeah. Oh, good. I was hoping I could sort of sneak it around in there.Rich: [laugh].Corey: But yeah, you know me too well.Rich: By the way, I'm not dogmatic about tools, right? I think Kubernetes is great for some things and for some use cases, but it's not the best tool for everything. But what we do is we really focus a lot on the experience of developers who are writing applications that run in Kubernetes cluster, and also on the platform teams that are having to maintain the clusters. So, we really are trying to address the speed bumps, the things that people bang their shins on when they're trying to get their app running in Kubernetes.Corey: Part of the problem I've always found is that the thing that people bang their shins on is Kubernetes. And it's one of those, “Well, it's sort of in the title, so you can't really avoid it. The only way out is through.” You could also say, “It's better never begin; once begun, better finish.” The same thing seems to apply to technology in a whole bunch of different ways.And that's always been a strange thing for me where I would have bet against Kubernetes. In fact, I did, and—because it was incredibly complicated, and it came out of Google, not that someone needed to tell me. It was very clearly a Google-esque product. And we saw it sort of take the world by storm, and we are all senior YAML engineers now. And here we are.And now you're doing developer advocacy, which means you're at least avoiding the problem of actually working with Kubernetes day-in-day out yourself, presumably. But instead, you're storytelling about it.Rich: You know, I spent a good part of my day a couple days ago fighting with my Kubernetes cluster at Docker Desktop. So, I still feel the pain some, but it's a different kind of pain. I've not maintaining it in production. I actually had the total opposite experience to you. So, my introduction to Kubernetes was seeing Kelsey Hightower talk about it in, like, 2015.And I was just hooked. And the reason that I was hooked is because of what Kubernetes did, and I think especially the service primitive, is that it encoded a lot of these operational patterns that had developed into the actual platform. So, things like how you check if an app is healthy, if it's ready to start accepting requests. These are things that I was doing in the shops that I was working at already, but we had to roll it ourselves; we had to invent a way to do that. But when Kelsey started talking about Kubernetes, it became apparent to me that the people who designed this thing had a lot of experience running applications in distributed systems, and they understood what you needed to be able to do that competently.Corey: There's something to be said for packaging and shipping expertise, and it does feel like we're on a bit of a cusp, where the complexity has risen and risen and risen, and it's always a sawtooth graph where things get so complicated that you then are paying people a quarter-million dollars a year to run the thing. And then it collapses in on itself. And the complexity is still there, but it's submerged to a point where you don't need to worry about it anymore. And it feels like we're a couple years away from Kubernetes hitting that, but I do view that as inevitable. Is that, basically, completely out to sea? Is that something that you think is directionally correct, or something else?Rich: I mean, I think that the thing that's been there for a long time is, how do we take this platform and make it actually usable for people? And that's a lot more about the whole CNCF ecosystem than Kubernetes itself. How do we make it so that we can easily monitor this thing, that we can have observability, that we can deploy applications to it? And I think what we've seen over the last few years is that, even more than Kubernetes itself, the tools that allow you to do those other things that you need to do to be able to run applications have exploded and gotten a lot better, I think.Corey: The problem, of course, is the explosion part of it because we look at the other side, at the CNCF landscape diagram, and it is a hilariously overwrought picture of all of the different offerings and products and tools in the space. There are something like 400 blocks on it, the last time I checked. It looks like someone's idea of a joke. I mean, I come up with various shitposts that I'm sort of embarrassed I didn't come up with one anywhere near that funny.Rich: I left SRE a few years ago, and this actually is one of the reasons. So, the explosion in tools gave me a huge amount of imposter syndrome. And I imagine I'm not the only one because you're on Twitter, you're hanging around, you're seeing people talk about all these cool tools that are out there, and you don't necessarily have a chance to play with them, let alone use them in production. And so what I would find myself doing is I would compare myself to these people who were experts on these tools. Somebody who actually invented the thing, like Joe Beda or something like that, and it's obviously unfair to do because I'm not that person. But my brain just wants to do that. You see people out there that know more than you and a lot of times I would feel bad about it. And it's an issue, I really think it is.Corey: So, one of the problems that I ran into when I left SRE was that I was solving the same problem again and again, in rapid succession. I was generally one of the first early SRE-type hires, and, “Oh, everything's on fire, and I know how to fix those things. We're going to migrate out of EC2 Classic into VPCs; we're going to set up infrastructure as code so we're not hand-building these things from scratch every time.” And in time, we wind up getting to a point where it's, okay, there are backups, and it's easy to provision stuff, and things mostly work. And then it becomes tedium, where the day starts to look too much alike.And I start looking for other problems elsewhere in the organization, and it turns out that when you don't have strategic visibility into what other orgs are doing but tell them what they're doing wrong, you're not a popular person; and you're often wrong. And that was a source of some angst in my case. The reason I started what I do now is because I was looking to do something different where no two days look alike, and I sort of found that. Do you find that with respect to developer advocacy, or does it fall into some repetitive pattern? Not there's anything wrong with that; I wish I had the capability to do that, personally.Rich: So, it's interesting that you mentioned this because I've talked pretty publicly about the fact that I've been diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago. You talked about the fact that you have it as well. I loved your Twitter thread about it, by the way; I still recommend it to people. But I think the real issue for me was that as I got more advanced in my career, people assumed that because you have ‘senior' in your title, that you're a good project manager. It's just assumed that as you grow technically and move into more senior roles, that you're going to own projects. And I was just never good at that. I was always very good at reactive things, I think I was good at being on call, I think I was good at responding to incidents.Corey: Firefighting is great for someone with our particular predilections. It's, “Oh, great. There's a puzzle to solve. It's extremely critical that we solve it.” And it gets the adrenaline moving. It's great, “Cool, now fill out a bunch of Jira tickets.” And those things will sit there unfulfilled until the day I die.Rich: Absolutely. And it's still not a problem that I've solved. I'll preface this with the kids don't try this at home advice because everybody's situation is different. I'm a white guy in the industry with a lot of privilege; I've developed a really good network over the years; I don't spend a lot of time worried about what happens if I lose my job, right, or how am I going to get another one. But when I got this latest job that I'm at now, I was pretty open with the CEO who interviewed me—it's a very small company, I'm like employee number four.And so when we talked to him ahead of time, I was very clear with him about the fact that bored Rich is bad. If Rich gets bored with what he's doing, if he's not engaged, it's not going to be good for anyone involved. And so—Corey: He's going to go find problems to solve, and they very well may not align with the problems that you need solved.Rich: Yeah, I think my problem is more that I disengage. Like, I lose my passion for what it is that I'm doing. And so I've been pretty intentional about trying to kind of change it up, make different kinds of content. I happen to be at this place that has four open-source projects, right, along with our commercial project. And so, so far at least, there's been plenty for me to talk about. I haven't had to worry about being bored so far.Corey: Small companies are great for that because you're everyone does everything to some extent; you start spreading out. And the larger a company gets, the smaller your remit is. The argument I always made against working at Google, for example was, let's say that I went in with evil in mind on day one. I would not be able—regardless of how long I was there, how high in the hierarchy I climbed—to take down google.com for one hour—the search engine piece.If I can't have that much impact intentionally, then the question really becomes how much impact can I have in a positive direction with everyone supposedly working in concert with me? And the answer I always came up with was not that much, not in the context of a company like that. It's hard for me to feel relevant to a large company. For better or worse, that is the thing that keeps me engaged is, “You know, if I get this wrong enough, we don't have a company anymore,” is sort of the right spot for me.Rich: [laugh]. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I had been at a number of startups last few years that were fairly early stage, and when I was looking for work this last time, my impulse was to go the opposite direction, was to go to a big company, you know, something that was going to be a little more stable, maybe. But I just was so interested in what these folks were building. And I really clicked with Lukas, the CEO, when we talked, and I ended up deciding to go this route. But there's a flip side to that.There's a lot of responsibility that comes with that, too. Part of me wanting to avoid being in that spotlight, in a way; part of me wanted to back off and be one of the million people building things. But I'm happy that I made this choice, and like I said, it's been working out really well, so far.Corey: It seems to be. You seem happy, which is always a nice thing to be able to pick up from someone in how they go about these things. Talk to me a little bit about what Loft does. You're working on some virtual cluster nonsense that mostly sails past me. Can you explain it using small words?Rich: [laugh]. Yeah, sure. So, if you talk to people who use Kubernetes, a lot, you are—Corey: They seem sad all the time. But please continue.Rich: One of the reasons that they're sad is because of multi-tenancy in Kubernetes; it just wasn't designed with that sort of model in mind. And so what you end up with is a couple of different things that happen. Either people build these shared clusters and feel a whole lot of pain trying to share them because people commonly use namespaces to isolate things, and that model doesn't completely work. Because there are objects like CRDs and things that are global, that don't live in the namespace, and so that can cause pain. Or the other option that people go with is that they just spin up a whole bunch of clusters.So, every team or every developer gets their own cluster, and then you've got all this cluster sprawl, and you've got costs, and it's not great for the environment. And so what we are really focused a lot on with the virtual cluster stuff is it provides people what looks like a full-blown Kubernetes cluster, but it just lives inside the namespace on your host cluster. So, it actually uses K3s, from the Rancher folks, the SUSE folks. And literally, this K3s API server sits in the namespace. And as a user, it looks to you like a full-blown Kubernetes cluster.Corey: Got it. So, basically a lightweight [unintelligible 00:13:31] that winds up stripping out some of the overwrought complexity. Do you find that it winds up then becoming a less high-fidelity copy of production?Rich: Sure. It's not one-to-one, but nothing ever is, right?Corey: Right. It's a question of whether people admit it or not, and where they're willing to make those trade-offs.Rich: Right. And it's a lot closer to production than using Docker Compose or something like that. So yeah, like you said, it's all about trade-offs, and I think that everything that we do as technical people is about trade-offs. You can give everybody their own Kubernetes cluster, you know, would run it in GK or AWS, and there's going to be a cost associated with that, not just financially, but in terms of the headaches for the people administering things.Corey: The hard part from where I've always been sitting has just been—because again, I deal with large-scale build-outs; I come in in the aftermath of these things—and people look at the large Kubernetes environments that they've built and it's expensive, and you look at it from the cloud provider perspective, and it's just a bunch of one big noisy application that doesn't make much sense from the outside because it's obviously not a single application. And it's chatty across availability zone boundaries, so it costs two cents per gigabyte. It has no [affinity 00:14:42] for what's nearby, so instead of talking to the service that is three racks away, it talks the thing over an expensive link. And that has historically been a problem. And there are some projects being made in that direction, but it's mostly been a collective hand-waving around it.And then you start digging into it in other directions from an economics perspective, and they're at large scale in the extreme corner cases, it always becomes this, “Oh, it's more trouble than it's worth.” But that is probably unfair for an awful lot of the real-world use cases that don't rise to my level of attention.Rich: Yeah. And I mean, like I said earlier, I think that it's not the best use case for everything. I'm a big fan of the HashiCorp tools. I think Nomad is awesome. A lot of people use it, they use it for other things.I think that one of the big use cases for Nomad is, like, running batch jobs that need to be scheduled. And there are people who use Nomad and Kubernetes both. Or you might use something like Cloud Run or AppRun, whatever works for you. But like I said, from someone who spent literally decades figuring out how to operate software and operating it, I feel like the great thing about this platform is the fact that it does sort of encode those practices.I actually have a podcast of my own. It's called Kube Cuddle. I talk to people in the Kubernetes community. I had Kelsey Hightower on recently, and the thing that Kelsey will tell you, and I agree with him completely, is that, you know, we talk about the complexity in Kubernetes, but all of that complexity, or a lot of it, was there already.We just dealt with it in other ways. So, in the old days, I was the Kubernetes scheduler. I was the guy who knew which app ran on which host, and deployed them and did all that stuff. And that's just not scalable. It just doesn't work.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle Cloud. Counting the pennies, but still dreaming of deploying apps instead of "Hello, World" demos? Allow me to introduce you to Oracle's Always Free tier. It provides over 20 free services and infrastructure, networking databases, observability, management, and security.And - let me be clear here - it's actually free. There's no surprise billing until you intentionally and proactively upgrade your account. This means you can provision a virtual machine instance or spin up an autonomous database that manages itself all while gaining the networking load, balancing and storage resources that somehow never quite make it into most free tiers needed to support the application that you want to build. With Always Free you can do things like run small scale applications, or do proof of concept testing without spending a dime. You know that I always like to put asterisks next to the word free. This is actually free. No asterisk. Start now. Visit https://snark.cloud/oci-free that's https://snark.cloud/oci-free.Corey: The hardest part has always been the people aspect of things, and I think folks have tried to fix this through a lens of, “The technology will solve the problem, and that's what we're going to throw at it, and see what happens by just adding a little bit more code.” But increasingly, it doesn't work. It works for certain problems, but not for others. I mean, take a look at the Amazon approach, where every team communicates via APIs—there's no shared data stores or anything like that—and their entire problem is a lack of internal communication. That's why the launch services that do basically the same thing as each other because no one bothers to communicate with one another. And half my job now is introducing Amazonians to one another. It empowers some amazing things, but it has some serious trade-offs. And this goes back to our ADHD aspect of the conversation.Rich: Yeah.Corey: The thing that makes you amazing is also the thing that makes you suck. And I think that manifests in a bunch of different ways. I mean, the fact that I can switch between a whole bunch of different topics and keep them all in state in my head is helpful, but it also makes me terrible, as far as an awful lot of different jobs, where don't come back to finish things like completing the Jira ticket to hit on Jira a second time in the same recording.Rich: Yeah, I'm the same way, and I think that you're spot on. I think that we always have to keep the people in mind. You know, when I made this decision to come to Loft Labs, I was looking at the tools and the tools were cool, but it wasn't just that. It's that they were addressing problems that people I know have. You hear these stories all the time about people struggling with the multi-tenancy stuff and I could see very quickly that the people building the tools were thinking about the people using them, and I think that's super important.Corey: As I check your LinkedIn profile, turns out, no, we met back in your Puppet days, the same era that I was a traveling trainer, teaching people how to Puppet and hoping not to get myself ejected from the premises for using sarcastic jokes about the company that I was conducting the training for. And that was fun. And then I worked at a bunch of places, you worked in a bunch of places, and you mentioned a few minutes ago that we share this privilege where if one of us loses our job, the next one is going to be a difficult thing for us to find, given the skill set that we have, the immense privilege that we enjoy, and the way that this entire industry works. Now, I will say that has changed somewhat since starting my own company. It's no longer the fear of, “Well, I'm going to land on my feet.” Rich: Right.Corey: Yeah, but I've got a bunch of people who are counting on me not to completely pooch this up. So, that's the thing that keeps me awake at night, now. But I'm curious, do you feel like that's given you the flexibility to explore a bunch of different company types and a bunch of different roles and stretch yourself a little with the understanding that, yeah, okay. If you've never last five years at the same company, that's not an inherent problem.Rich: Yeah, it's interesting. I've had conversations with people about this. If you do look up my LinkedIn, you're going to see that a lot of the recent jobs have been less than two years: year, year and a half, things like that. And I think that I do have some of that freedom, now. Those exits haven't always been by choice, right?And that's part of what happens in the industry, too. I think I've been laid off, like, four or five times now in my career. The worst one by far was when the bubble burst back in 2000. I was working at WebMD, and they ended up closing our office here.Corey: You were Doctor Google.Rich: I kind of was. So, I was actually the guy who would deploy the webmd.com site back then. And it was three big Sun servers. And I would manually go in and run shell scripts and take one out of the load balancer and roll the new code on it, and then move on to the next one. And those are early days; I started in the industry in about '95. Those early days, I just felt bulletproof because everybody needed somebody with my skills. And after that layoff in 2000, it was a lot different. The market just dried up, I went 10 months unemployed. I ended up taking a job where I took a really big pay cut in a role that wasn't really good for me, career-wise. And I guess it's been a little bit of a comfort to me, looking back. If I get laid off now, I know it's not going to be as bad as that was. But I think that's important, and one of the things that's helped me a lot and I'm assuming it's helped you, too, is building up a network, meeting people, making friends. I sort of hate the word networking because it has really negative connotations to it to me. The salespeople slapping each other on the back at the bar and exchanging business cards is the image that comes to my mind when I think of networking. But I don't think it has to be like that. I think that you can make genuine friendships with people in the industry that share the interests and passions that you have.Corey: That's part of it. People, I think, also have the wrong idea about passion and how that interplays with career. “Do a thing that you love, and the money will follow,” is terrific advice in the United States to make about $30,000 a year. I assure you, when I started this place, I was not deeply passionate about AWS billing. I developed a passion for it as I rapidly had to become an expert in this thing.I knew there was an expensive business problem there that leveraged the skill set that I already had and I could apply it to something that was valuable to more than just engineers because let's face it, engineers are generally terrible customers for a variety of reasons. And by doing that and becoming the expert in that space, I developed a passion for it. I think it was Scott Galloway who in one of his talks said he had a friend who was a tax attorney. And do you think that he started off passionate about tax law? Of course not.He was interested in making a giant pile of money. Like, his preferred seat when he flies is ‘private.' So, he's obviously very passionate about it now, but he found something that he could enjoy that would pay a bunch of money because it was an in-demand, expensive skill. I often wonder if instead of messing around and computers, my passion had been oil painting, for example. Would I have had anything approaching to the standard of living I have now?The answer is, “Of course not.” It would have been a very different story. And that says many deeply troubling things about our society across the board. I don't know how to fix any of them. I'm one of those people that rather than sitting here talking how the world should be; I deal with the world as I encounter it.And at times, that doesn't feel great, but it is the way that I've learned to cope, I guess, with the existential angst. I'm envious in some ways of the folks who sit here saying, “No, we demand a better world.” I wish I shared their optimism or ability to envision it being different than it is, but I just don't have it.Rich: Yeah, I mean, there are oil painters who make a whole lot of money, but it's not many of them, right?Corey: Yeah, but you shouldn't have to be dead first.Rich: [laugh]. I used to… know a painter who Jim Carrey bought one of his big canvases for quite a lot of money. So, they're not all dead. But again, your point is very valid. We are in this bubble in the tech industry where people do make on average, I think, a lot more money than people do in many other kinds of jobs.And I recently started thinking about possibly going into ADHD coaching. So, I have an ADHD coach myself; she has made a very big difference in my life so far. And I actually have started taking classes to prepare for possibly getting certified in that. And I'm not sure that I'm going to do it. I may stay in tech.I may do some of both. It doesn't have to be either-or. But it's been really liberating to just have this vision of myself working outside of tech. That's something that I didn't consider was even possible for quite a long time.Corey: I have to confess I've never had an ADHD coach. I was diagnosed when I was five years old and back then—my mother had it as well, and the way that it was dealt with in the '50s and '60s when she was growing up was, she had a teacher once physically tie her to a chair. Which—Rich: Oh, my gosh.Corey: —is generally frowned upon these days. And coaching was never a thing. They decided, “Oh, we're going to medicate you to the gills,” in my case. And that was great. I was basically a zombie for a lot of my childhood.When I was 17, I took myself off of it and figured I'd white-knuckle it for the next 10 years or so. Again, everyone's experience is different, but for me, didn't work, and it led to some really interesting tumultuous times in my '20s. I've never explored coaching just because it feels like so much of what I do is the weirdest aspects of different areas of ADHD. I also have constraints upon me that most folks with ADHD wouldn't have. And conversely, I have a tremendous latitude in other areas.For example, I keep dropping things periodically from time to time; I have an assistant. Turns out that most people, they bring in an assistant to help them with stuff will find themselves fired because you're not supposed to share inside company data with someone who is not an employee of that company. But when you own the company, as I do, it's well, okay, I'm not supposed to share confidential client data or give access to it to someone who's not an employee here. “Da da da da da. Welcome aboard. Your first day is Monday.”And now I've solved that problem in a way that is not open to most people. That is a tremendous benefit and I'm constantly aware of how much privilege is just baked into that. It's a hard thing for me to reconcile, so I've never explored the coaching angle. I also, on some level—and this is an area that I understand is controversial and I in no way, shape or form, mean any—want anyone to take anything negative away from this. There are a number of people I know where ADHD is a cornerstone of their identity, where that is the thing that they are.That is the adjective that gets hung on them the most—by choice, in many cases—and I'm always leery about going down that path because I'm super strange ever on a whole bunch of different angles, and even, “Oh, well he has ADHD. Does that explain it?” No, not really. I'm still really, really strange. But I never wanted to go down that path of it being, “Oh, Corey. The guy with ADHD.”And again, part of this is growing up with that diagnosis. I was always the odd kid, but I didn't want to be quote-unquote, “The freak” that always had to go to the nurse's office to wind up getting the second pill later in the day. I swear people must have thought I had irritable bowel syndrome or something. It was never, “Time to go to the nurse, Corey.” It was one of those [unintelligible 00:27:12]. “Wow, 11:30. Wow, he is so regular. He must have all the fiber in his diet.” Yeah, pretty much.Rich: I think that from reading that Twitter thread of yours, it sounds like you've done a great job at mitigating some of the downsides of ADHD. And I think it's really important when we talk about this that we acknowledge that everybody's experience is different. So, your experience with ADHD is likely different than mine. But there are some things that a lot of us have in common, and you mentioned some of them, that the idea of creating that Jira ticket and never following through, you put yourself in a situation where you have people around you and structures, external structures, that compensate for the things that you might have trouble with. And that's kind of how I'm looking at it right now.My question is, what can I do to be the most successful Rich Burroughs that I can be? And for me right now, having that coach really helps a lot because being diagnosed as an adult, there's a lot of self-image problems that can come from ADHD. You know that you failed at a lot of things over time; people have often pointed that out to you. I was the kid in high school who the counselors or my teachers were always telling me I needed to apply myself.Corey: “If you just tried harder and suck a little less, then you'll be much better off.” Yeah, “Just to apply yourself. You have so much potential, Rich.” Does any of that ring a bell?Rich: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, something my coach said to me not too long ago, I was talking about something and I said to her, I can't do X. Like, I'm just not—it's not possible. And her response was, “Well, what if you could?” And I think that's been one of the big benefits to me is she helps me think outside of my preconceptions of what I can do.And then the other part of it, that I'm personally finding really valuable, is having the goal setting and some level of accountability. She helps with those things as well. So, I'm finding it really useful. I'm sure it's not for everybody. And like we said, everybody's experience with ADHD isn't the same, but one of the things that I've had happened since I started talking about getting diagnosed, and what I've learned since then, is I've had a bunch of people come to me.And it's usually on Twitter; it's usually in DMs; you know, they don't want to talk about it publicly themselves, but they'll tell me that they saw my tweets and they went out and got diagnosed or their kid got diagnosed. And when I think about the difference that could make in someone's life, if you're a kid and you actually get diagnosed and hopefully get better treatment than it sounds like you did, it could make a really big positive impact in someone's life and that's the reason that I'm considering putting doing it myself is because I found that so rewarding. Some of these messages I get I'm almost in tears when I read them.Corey: Yeah. The reason I started talking about it more is that I was hoping that I could serve as something of, if not a beacon of inspiration, at least a cautionary tale of what not to do. But you never know if you ever get there or not. People come up and say that things you've said or posted have changed the trajectory of how they view their careers and you've had a positive impact on their life. And, I mean, you want to talk about weird Gremlins in our own minds?I always view that as just the nice things people say because they feel like they should. And that is ridiculous, but that's the voice in my head that's like, “You aren't shit, Corey, you aren't shit,” that's constantly whispering in my ear. And it's, I don't know if you can ever outrun those demons.Rich: I don't think I can outrun them. I don't think that the self-image issues I have are ever going to just go away. But one thing I would say is that since I've been diagnosed, I feel like I'm able to be at least somewhat kinder to myself than I was before because I understand how my brain works a little bit better. I already knew about the things that I wasn't good at. Like, I knew I wasn't a good project manager; I knew that already.What I didn't understand is some of the reasons why. I'm not saying that it's all because of ADHD, but it's definitely a factor. And just knowing that there's some reason for why I suck, sometimes is helpful. It lets me let myself off the hook, I guess, a little bit.Corey: Yeah, I don't have any answers here. I really don't. I hope that it becomes more clear in the fullness of time. I want to thank you for taking so much time to speak with me about all these things. If people want to learn more, where can they find you?Rich: I'm @richburroughs on Twitter, and also on Polywork, which I've been playing around with and enjoying quite a bit.Corey: I need to look into that more. I have an account but I haven't done anything with it, yet.Rich: It's a lot of fun and I think that, speaking of ADHD, one of the things that occurred to me is that I'm very bad at remembering the things that I accomplish.Corey: Oh, my stars, yes. People ask me what I do for a living and I just stammer like a fool.Rich: Yeah. And it's literally this map of, like, all the content I've been making. And so I'm able to look at that and, I think, appreciate what I've done and maybe pat myself on the back a little bit.Corey: Which is important. Thank you so much again, for your time, Rich. I really appreciate it.Rich: Thanks for having me on, Corey. This was really fun.Corey: Rich Burroughs, Senior Developer Advocate at Loft Labs. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a comment telling me what the demon on your shoulder whispers into your ear and that you can drive them off by using their true name, which is Kubernetes.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Unpacking the Digital Shelf
Manage Your Amazon Business the Same Way Amazon Does, with Andrew Hamada, co-founder and CEO, Reason Automation

Unpacking the Digital Shelf

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 2, 2021 37:17


Inside Amazon, vendor managers are renowned for having vast amounts of data at their fingertips to fine tune performance and, famously, drive negotiation with their brand manufacturer partners. Imagine if you could go to those negotiations, or better yet, fine-tune your Amazon business every day with your own set of financial, retail, advertising, and brand data out of Amazon systems. The team of ex-Amazonians at Reason Automation have set out to provide just that. Rob and Peter sat down with Reason's co-founder and CEO, to talk about what data is critical to managing your business and how they democratize access for any brand looking to win.

Kanal K - Alle Podcasts und Episoden
salon vert – How To Take Up Space mit Acid Amazonians

Kanal K - Alle Podcasts und Episoden

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 30, 2021 60:29


30. Juli 2021 Moderation: Claude Bühler Salon Vert, ein Raummoment – oder was darin... The post salon vert – How To Take Up Space mit Acid Amazonians appeared first on Kanal K.

Screaming in the Cloud
Innovations and the Changing DevOps Tides of Tech with Nigel Kersten

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 22, 2021 41:12


About NigelNigel Kersten's day job is Field CTO at Puppet where he leads a group of engineers who work with Puppet's largest customers on cultural and organizational changes necessary for large-scale DevOps implementations - among other things. He's a co-author of the industry-leading State Of DevOps Report and likes to evenly talk about what went right with DevOps and what went wrong based on this research and his experience in the field. He's held multiple positions at Puppet across product and engineering and came to Puppet from the Google SRE organization, where he was responsible for one of the largest Puppet deployments in the world.  Nigel is passionate about behavioral economics, electronic music, synthesizers, and Test cricket. Ask him about late-stage capitalism, and shoes.Links: Puppet: https://puppet.com 2020 State of DevOps Report: https://puppet.com/resources/report/2020-state-of-devops-report/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by LaunchDarkly. Take a look at what it takes to get your code into production. I'm going to just guess that it's awful because it's always awful. No one loves their deployment process. What if launching new features didn't require you to do a full-on code and possibly infrastructure deploy? What if you could test on a small subset of users and then roll it back immediately if results aren't what you expect? LaunchDarkly does exactly this. To learn more, visit launchdarkly.com and tell them Corey sent you, and watch for the wince.Corey: Your company might be stuck in the middle of a DevOps revolution without even realizing it. Lucky you! Does your company culture discourage risk? Are you willing to admit it? Does your team have clear responsibilities? Depends on who you ask. Are you struggling to get buy in on DevOps practices? Well, download the 2021 State of DevOps report brought to you annually by Puppet since 2011 to explore the trends and blockers keeping evolution firms stuck in the middle of their DevOps evolution. Because they fail to evolve or die like dinosaurs. The significance of organizational buy in, and oh it is significant indeed, and why team identities and interaction models matter. Not to mention weither the use of automation and the cloud translate to DevOps success. All that and more awaits you. Visit: www.puppet.com to download your copy of the report now!Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This promoted episode is sponsored by a long time… I wouldn't even say friends so much as antagonist slash protagonist slash symbiotic company with things I have done as I have staggered through the ecosystem. There's a lot of fingers of blame that I can point throughout the course of my career at different instances, different companies, different clients, et cetera, et cetera, that have shaped me into the monstrosity than I am today. But far and away, the company that has the most impact on the way that I speak publicly, is Puppet.Here to accept the recrimination for what I become and how it's played out is Nigel Kersten, a field CTO at Puppet—or the field CTO; I don't know how many of them they have. Nigel, welcome to the show, and how unique are you?Nigel: Thank you, Corey. Well, I—you know, reasonably unique. I think that you get used to being one of the few Australians living in Portland who's decided to move away from the sunny beaches and live in the gray wilderness of the Pacific Northwest.Corey: So, to give a little context into that ridiculous intro, I was a traveling contract trainer for the Puppet fundamentals course for an entire summer back in I want to say 2014, but don't hold me to it. And it turns out that when you're teaching a whole bunch of students who have paid in many cases, a couple thousand dollars out of pocket to learn a new software where, in some cases, they feel like it's taking their job away because they view their job, rightly or wrongly, is writing the same script again and again. And then the demo breaks and people are angry, and if you don't get a good enough rating, you're not invited to continue, and then the company you're contracting through hits you with a stick, it teaches you to improvise super quickly. So, I wasn't kidding when I said that Puppet was in many ways responsible for the way that I give talks now. So, what do you have to say for yourself?Nigel: Well, I have to say, congratulations for surviving, opinionated defensive nerds who think not only you but your entire product you're demoing could be replaced by a shell script. It's a tough crowd.Corey: It was an experience. And some of these were community-based, and some of them were internal to a specific company. And if people have heard more than one episode of this show, I'm sure they can imagine how that went. I gave a training at Comcast once and set a personal challenge for myself of how many times could I use the word ‘comcastic' in a three-day training. And I would work it in and talk about things like the schedule parameter in Puppet where it doesn't guarantee something's going to execute in a time window; it's the only time it may happen.If it doesn't fire off, and then it isn't going to happen. It's like a Comcast service appointment. And then they just all kind of stared at me for a while and, credit where due, that was the best user rating I ever got from people sitting through one of my training. So, thanks for teaching me how to improve at, basically, could have been a very expensive mistake on Puppet's part. It accidentally worked out for everyone.Nigel: Brilliant, brilliant. Yes, you would have survived teaching the spaceship operator to that sort of a crowd.Corey: Oh, I mostly avoided that thing. That was an advanced Puppet-ism, and this was Puppet fundamentals because I just need to be topically good at things, not deep-dive good at things. But let's dig into that a little bit. For those who have not had the pleasure of working with Puppet, what is it?Nigel: Sure? So, Puppet is a pretty simple DSL. You know, DSLs aren't necessarily in favor these days.Corey: Domain-specific language, for those who have not—Nigel: Yep.Corey: —caught up on that acronym. Yes.Nigel: So, a programming language designed for a specific task. And, you know, instead, we've decided that the world will rest on YAML. And we've absorbed a fair bit of YAML into our ecosystem, but there are things that I will still stand by are just better to do in a programming language. ‘if x then y,' for example, it's just easier to express when you have actual syntax around you and you're not, sort of, forcing everything to be in a data specification language. So, Puppet's pretty simple in that it's a language that lets you describe the state that infrastructure should be.And you can do this in a modular and composable way. So, I can build a little chunk of automation code; hand it to Corey; Corey can build something slightly bigger with it; hand it to someone else. And really, this sort of collaboration is one of the reasons why Puppet's, sort of, being at the center of the DevOps movement, which at its core is not really about tools. It's about reducing friction between different groups.Corey: Back when I was doing my traveling training shtick, I found that I had to figure out a way to describe what Puppet did to folks who were not deep in the space, and the analogy that I came up with that I was particularly partial to was, imagine you get a brand new laptop. Well, what do you do with it? You install your user account and go through the setup; you install the programs that you use, some which have licenses on it; you copy your data onto it; you make sure that certain programs always run on startup because that's the way that you work with these things; you install Firefox because that's the browser of choice that you go with, et cetera, et cetera. Now, imagine having to do that for, instead of one computer, a thousand of them, and instead of a laptop, they're servers. And that is directionally what Puppet does.Nigel: Absolutely. This is the one I use for my mother as well. Like, I was working around Puppet for years before—and the way I explained it was, “You know when you get a new iPad, you've got to set up your Facebook account and your email. Imagine you had ten thousand of these.” And she was like—I was like, “You know, companies like Google, company like big banks, they all have lots and lots and lots of computers.” And she was like, “They run all those things on iPads.” And I was like, “This is not really where my analogy was going.” But.Corey: Right. And increasingly, though, it seems like the world has shifted in some direction where, when you explain that to your mother and she comes back with, “Well, wouldn't they just put the application into Docker and be done with it?” Oh, dear. But that seems to be in many ways that the direction that the zeitgeist has moved in, whether or not that is the reality in many environments, where when you're just deploying containers everywhere—through the miracle of Kubernetes—if you'll pardon the dismissive scorn there, that you just package up your application, shove into a container, and then hurl it from the application team over the operations team, like a dead dog cast into your neighbor's yard for him to worry about. And then it sort of takes up the space of you don't have to manage state anymore because everything is mostly stateless in theory. How have you seen it play out in practice in the last five years?Nigel: I mean, that's a real trend. And, you know, the size of a container should be [laugh] smaller than an operating system. And the reality is, I'm a sysadmin; I love operating systems, I nerded out on operating systems. They're a necessary evil, they're terrible, terrible things: registry keys, config files, they're a pain in the neck to deal with. And if you look at, I think what a lot of operations folks missed about Docker when it started was that it didn't make their life better. It was worse.It was, like, this actual, sort of, terrible toolchain where you sort of tied together all these different things. But really importantly, what it did is it put control into the hands of the developers, and it was the developers who were trying to do stuff who were trying to shift into applications. And I think Docker was a really great technology, in the sense of, you know, developers could ship value on their own. And that was the huge, huge leveling up. It wasn't the interface, it wasn't the user experience, it wasn't all these things, it was just that the control got taken away from the IT trolls in their basement going, “No, don't touch my servers,” and instead given straight to the developers. And that's huge because it let us ship things faster. And that's ultimately the whole goal of things.Corey: The thing that really struck me the most from conducting the trainings that I did was meeting a whole bunch of people across the country, in different technological areas of specialty, in different states of their evolution as technologists, and something that struck me was just how much people wound up identifying with the technology that they worked on. When someone is the AIX admin, and the AIX machines are getting replaced with Linux boxes, there's this tendency to fight against that and rebel, rather than learning Linux. And I get it; I'm as subject to this as anyone is. And in many cases, that was the actual pushback that I saw against adopting something like Puppet. If I identify my job as being the person that runs all these carefully curated scripts that I've spent five years building, and now that all gets replaced with something that is more of a global solution to my local problem, then it feels like a thing that made me special is eroding.And we see that with the migration to cloud as well. When you're the storage admin, and it just becomes an API call to S3, that's kind of a scary thing. And when you're one of the server hugger types—and again, as guilty as anyone of this—and you start to see cloud coming in as, like, a rising tide that eats up what it was that you became known for, it's scary and it becomes a foundational shift in how you view yourself. What I really had a lot of sympathy for was the folks who've been doing this for 20 years. They were, in some cases, a few years away from retirement, and they've been doing basically the same set of tasks every year for 25 years.It's one year of experience repeated 25 times. And they don't have that much time left in their career, intentionally, so they want to retire, but they also don't really want to learn a whole bunch of new technologies just to get through those last few years. I feel for them. But at the same time—Nigel: No, me too, totally. But what are you going to do? But without sounding too dismissive there, I think it's a natural tendency for us to identify with the technology if that's what you're around all the time. You know, mechanics do this, truck drivers with brands of trucks, people, like, to build attachments to the technology they work with because we fit them into this bigger techno-social system. But I have a lot of empathy for the people in enterprise jobs who are being asked to change radically because the cycle of progress is speeding up faster and faster.And as you say, they might be a few years away from retirement. I think I used to feel more differently about this when I was really hot-headed and much more of a tech enthusiast, and that's what I identified with. In terms of, it's okay for a job to just be a job for people. It's okay for someone to be doing a job because they get good health care and good benefits and it's feeding their family. That's an important thing. You can't expect everyone to always be incredibly passionate about technology choices in the same way that I think many of us who live on Twitter and hanging out in this space are.Corey: Oh, I have no problem whatsoever with people who want to show up for 40 hours a week-ish, work on their job, and then go home and have lives and not think about computers at all. There's this dark mass of developers out there that basically never show up on Twitter, they aren't on IRC, they don't go to conferences, and that's fine. I have no problem with that, and I hope I don't come across as being overly dismissive of those folks. I honestly wish I could be content like that. I just don't hold still very well.Nigel: [laugh]. Yeah, so I think you touched on a few interesting things there. And some of those we sort of cover in the State of DevOps Report, which is coming out in the next few weeks.Corey: Indeed, and the State of DevOps Report started off at Puppet, and they've now done it for, what, 10 years?Nigel: This is the 10th year, which is completely crazy. So, I was looking at the stats as I was writing it, and it's 10 years of State of DevOps Reports; I think it's 11 years of DevOps Weekly, Gareth Rushgrove's newsletter; it's 12 or 13 years of DevOpsDays that have been going on. This is longer than I spent in primary and high school put together. It's kind of crazy that the DevOps movement is still, kind of, chugging along, even if it's not necessarily the coolest kid on the block, now that GitOps, SRE flavor of the month, various kinds of permutations of how we work with technology, have perhaps got a little bit cooler. But it's still very, very relevant to a lot of enterprises out there.Corey: Yeah. As I frequently say, legacy is a condescending engineering term for ‘it makes money,' and there's an awful lot of that out there. Forget cloud, there are still companies wrestling with do we explore this virtualization thing? And that was something I was very against back in 2006, let's be very honest. I am very bad at predicting the future of technology.And, “I can see this for small niche edge workload cases, where you have a bunch of idle servers, but for the most part, who's really going to use this in production?” Well, basically everyone because that, in turn, is what the cloud runs on. Yeah, I think we can safely say I got that one hilariously wrong. But hey, if you're aren't going to make predictions, then what's it matter?Nigel: But the industry pushes you in these directions. So, there was this massive bank in Asia who I've been working with for a long time and they were always resistant to adopting virtualization. And then it was only four or five years ago that I visited them; they're like, “Right. Okay. It's time. We're rolling out VMware.” And I was like, “So, I'm really curious. What exactly changed in the last year or two in, like, 2014, 2015 that you decided virtualization was the key?” And I'm like—Corey: Oh, there was this jackwagon who conducted this training? Yeah, no, no, sorry. I can't take credit for that one.Nigel: They couldn't order one rack unit servers with CD drives anymore because their whole process was actually provisioning with CDs before that point.Corey: Welcome to the brave new world of PXE booting, which is kind of hard, so yeah, virtualization is easier. You know, sometimes people have to be dragged into various ways of technological advancement. Which gets to the real thing I want to cover, since this is a promoted episode, where you're talking about the State of DevOps Report, I'm almost less interested in what this year's has to say specifically, than what you've seen over the last decade. What's changed? What was true 10 years ago that is very much not true now? Bonus points if you can answer that without using the word Kubernetes more than twice.Nigel: So, I think one of the big things was the—we've definitely passed peak DevOps team, if you may remember, there was a lot of arguments and there's still regular, is DevOps a job title? Is it a team title? Is it a [crosstalk 00:14:33]—Corey: Oh, I was much on the no side until I saw how much more I would get paid as a DevOps engineer instead of a systems administrator for the exact same job. So, you know, I shut up and I took the money. I figured that the semantic arguments are great, but yeah.Nigel: And that's exactly what we've written in the report. And I think it's great. The sysadmins, we were unloved. You know, we were in the basement, we weren't paid as much as programmers. The running joke used to be for developers, DevOps meant, “I don't need ops anymore.” But for ops people, it was, “I can get paid like a developer.”Corey: In many cases, “Oh, well, systems administrators don't want to learn how to code.” It's, yeah, you're remembering a relatively narrow slice of time between the modern era, where systems administrator types need to be able to write in the lingua franca of everything—which is, of course, YAML, as far as programming languages go—and before that, to be a competent systems administrator, you needed to have a functional grasp of C. And—Nigel: Yeah.Corey: —there is only a limited window in which a bunch of bash scripts and maybe a smidgen of Perl would have carried you through. But the deeper understanding is absolutely necessary, and I would argue, always has been.Nigel: And this is great because you've just linked up with one of the things we found really interesting about the report is that you know when we talk about legacy we don't actually mean the oldest shit. Because the oldest shit is the mainframes; it's a lot of bare metal applications. A lot of that in big enterprises—Corey: We're still waiting for an AWS/400 to replace some of that.Nigel: Well, it's administered by real systems engineers, you know, like, the people who wrote C, who wrote kernel extensions, who could debug things. What we actually mean by legacy is we mean late '90s to late 2000s, early 2010s. Stuff that was put together by kids who, like me, happened to get a job because you grew up with a computer, and then the dotcom explosion happened. You weren't necessarily particularly skilled, and a lot of people, they didn't go through the apprenticeships that mainframe folks and systems engineers actually went through. And everyone just held this stuff together with, you know, duct tape and dental floss. And then now we're paying the price of it all, like, way back down the track. So, the legacy is really just a certain slice of rapid growth in applications and infrastructure, that's sort of an unmanageable mess now.Corey: Oh, here in San Francisco, legacy is anything prior to last night's nightly build. It's turned into something a little ridiculous. I feel like the real power move as a developer now is to get a job, go in on day one, rebase everything in the Git repository to a single commit with a message, ‘legacy code' and then force push it to the main branch. And that's the power move, and that's how it works, and that's also the attitude we wind up encountering in a lot of places. And I don't think it serves anyone particularly well to tie themselves so tightly to that particular vision.Nigel: Yep, absolutely. This is a real problem in this space. And one of the things we found in the State of DevOps Report is that—let me back up a little and give a little bit of methodology of what we actually do. We survey people about their performance metrics, you know, like how quickly can you do deploys? What's your mean time to recovery? Those sorts of things, and what practices do you actually employ?And we essentially go through and do statistical analysis on this, and everyone tends to end up in three cohorts, they separate pretty easily, of low, medium, and high evolution. And so one of the things we found is that everyone at the low level has all sorts of problems. They have issues with what does my team do? What does the team next to me do? How do I talk to the team next to me?How do I actually share anything? How do I even know what my goals are? Like, fundamental company problems. But everyone at all levels of evolution is stuck on two big things: not being able to find enough people with the right skills for what they need, and their legacy infrastructure holding them back.Corey: The thing that I find the most compelling is the idea of not being able to find enough people with the skills that they need. And I'm going to break my own rule and mentioned Kubernetes as a prime example of this. If you are effective at managing Kubernetes in production, you will make a very comfortable living in any geographical location on the planet because it is incredibly complex. And every time we've seen this in previous trends, where you need to get more and more complexity, and more and more expertise just to run something, it looks like a sawtooth curve, where at some point that complexity, it gets abstracted away and compressed down into something that is basically a single line somewhere, or it happens below the surface level of awareness. My argument has been that Kubernetes is something no one's going to care about in roughly three years from now, not because we're not using it anymore, but because it's below the level of awareness that we have to think about, in the same way that there aren't a whole lot of people on the planet these days who have to think about the Linux virtual memory management subsystem. It's there and a few people really care about it, but for the rest of us, we don't have to think about that. That is the infrastructure underneath our infrastructure.Nigel: Absolutely. I used to make a living—and it's ridiculous looking back at this—for a year or two, doing high-performance custom compiled Apaches for people. Like, I was really really good at this.Corey: Well yeah, Apache is a great example of this, where back in the '90s, to get a web server up and running you needed to have three days to spare, an in-depth knowledge of GCC compiler flags, and hope for the best. And then RPM came out and then, okay, then YUM or other things like that—Nigel: Exactly.Corey: —on top of it. And then things like Puppet started showing up, and we saw, all right now, [unintelligible 00:20:01] installed. Great. And then we had—it took a step beyond that, and it was, “Oh, now it's just a Docker-run whatever it is,” and these days, yeah, it's a checkbox in S3.Nigel: So, let me get your Kubernetes prediction down, right. So, you're predicting Kubernetes is going to go away like Apache and highly successful things. It's not an OpenStack failure state; it's Apache invisibility state?Corey: Absolutely. My timeline is a bit questionable, let's be fair, but—it's a little on the aggressive side, but yeah, I think that Kubernetes is inherently too complex for most people to have to wind up thinking about it in that way. And we're not talking small companies; we're talking big ones where you're not in a position, if you're a giant blue-chip Fortune 50, to hire 2000 people who all know Kubernetes super well, and you shouldn't have to. There needs to be some flattening of all of that high level of complexity. Without the management tools, though, with things like Puppet and the things that came before and a bunch of different ways, we would all not be able to get anything done because we'd be too busy writing in assembly. There's always going to be those abstractions on top abstractions on top abstractions, and very few people understand how it works all the way down. But that's, in many cases, okay.Nigel: That's civilization, you know? Do you understand what happens when you plug in something to your electricity socket? I don't want to know; I just want light.Corey: And more to the point, whenever you flip the switch, you don't have that doubt in your mind that the light is going to come on. So, if it doesn't, that's notable, and your first thought is, “Oh, the light bulb is out,” not, “The utility company is down.” And we talk about the cloud being utility computing.Nigel: Has someone put a Kubernetes operator in this light switch that may break this process?Corey: Well, okay, IoT does throw a little bit of a crimp into those works. But yeah. So, let's talk more about the State of DevOps Report. What notable findings were there this year?Nigel: So, one of the big things that we've seen for the last couple of years has been that most companies are stuck in the middle of the evolutionary progress. And anyone who deals with large enterprises knows this is true. Whatever they've adopted in terms of technology, in terms of working methods, you know, agile, various different things, most companies don't tend to advance to the high levels; most places stay mired in mediocrity. So, we wanted to dive into that and try and work out why most companies actually stuck like this when they hit a certain size. And it turns out, the problems aren't technology or DevOps, they really fundamental problems like, “We don't have clear goals. I don't understand what the teams next to me do.”We did a bunch of qualitative interviews as well as the quantitative work in the survey with this report, and we talked to one group of folks at a pretty large financial services company who are like, “Our teams have all been renamed so many times, if I need to go and ask someone for something, I literally page up and down through ServiceNow, trying to find out where to put the change request.” And they're like, “How do I know where to put a network port opening request for this particular service when there are 20 different teams that might be named the right thing, and some are obsolete, and I get no feedback whether I've sent it off to the right thing or to a black hole of enterprise despair?”Corey: I really love installing, upgrading, and fixing security agents in my cloud estate! Why do I say that? Because I sell things, because I sell things for a company that deploys an agent, there's no other reason. Because let's face it. Agents can be a real headache. Well, now Orca Security gives you a single tool that detects basically every risk in your cloud environment -- and that's as easy to install and maintain as a smartphone app. It is agentless, or my intro would've gotten me into trouble here, but  it can still see deep into your AWS workloads, while guaranteeing 100% coverage. With Orca Security, there are no overlooked assets, no DevOps headaches, and believe me you will hear from those people if you cause them headaches. and no performance hits on live environments. Connect your first cloud account in minutes and see for yourself at orca.security. Thats “Orca” as in whale, “dot” security as in that things you company claims to care about but doesn't until right after it really should have.Corey: That doesn't get better with a lot of modernization. I mean, I feel like half of my job—and I'm not exaggerating—is introducing Amazonians to one another. Corporate communication between departments and different groups is very far from a solved problem. I think the tooling can help but I've never been a big believer in solving political problems with technology. It doesn't work. People don't work that way.Nigel: Absolutely. One of my earliest times working at Puppet doing, sort of, higher-level sales and services and support, huge national telco walk in there; we've got the development team, the QA team, the infrastructure team. In the course of this conversation, one of them makes a comment about using apt-get, and the others were like, “What do you mean? We're on RHEL.” And it turned out, production was running on RHEL, the QA team running on CentOS and the developers were all building everything on Ubuntu. And because it was Java wraps, they almost didn't have to care. But write once, debug everywhere.Corey: History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes; before Docker, so much of development in startup-land was how do I make my MacBook Pro look a lot more like an EC2 Linux instance? And it turns out that there's an awful lot of work that goes into that maybe isn't the best use of people's time. And we start to see these breakthroughs and these revelations in a bunch of different ways. I have to ask. This is the tenth year that you've done the State of DevOps Report. At this point, why keep doing it? Is it inertia? Are you still discovering new insights every year on top of it? Or is it one of those things where well someone in marketing says we have to do it, so here we are?Nigel: No, actually, it's not that at all. So definitely, we're going to take stock after this year because ten years feels like a really good point to, sort of—it's a nice round number in certain kind of number system. Mainly the reason is, a lot of my job is going and helping big enterprises just get better at using technology. And it's funny how often I just get folks going, “Oh, I read this thing,” like people who aren't on the bleeding edge, constantly discussing these things on Twitter or whatever, but the State of DevOps Report makes its way to them, and they're like, “Oh, I read a thing there about how much better it is if we standardized on one operating system. And that made a really huge difference to what we were actually doing because you had all this data in there showing that that is better.”And honestly, that's the biggest reason why I ended up doing it. It's the fact that it seems to be a tool that has made its way through to very hard to penetrate enterprise folks. And they'll read it and managers will read things that are like, “If you set clear goals for your team and get them to focus on optimizing the legacy environment, you will see returns on it.” And I'm being a little bit facetious in the tone that I'm saying because a lot of this stuff does feel obvious if you're constantly swimming in this stuff day-to-day, but it's not just the practitioners who it's just a job for in a lot of big companies. It's true, a lot of the management chain as well. They're not necessarily going out and reading up on modern agile IT management practices day-to-day, for fun; they go home and do something else.Corey: One of my favorite conferences is Gene Kim's DevOps Enterprise Summit, and the specific reason behind that is, these are very large companies that go beyond companies, in some cases, to institutions, where you have the US Air Force as a presenter one year and very large banks that are 200 years old. And every other conference, it seems, more or less involves people getting on stage, deliver conference-ware and tell stories that make people at those companies feel bad about themselves. Where it's, “We're Twitter for Pets, and this is how we deploy software,” or the ever-popular, “This is how Netflix does stuff.” Yeah, Netflix has basically no budget constraints as far as hiring engineering folks go, and lest we forget, their failure mode is someone can't watch a movie right now. It's not exactly the same thing as the ATM starts spitting out the wrong balance in the streets.And I think that there's an awful lot of discussion where people look at the stories people tell on conference stages and come away feeling bad from it. Very often, I'll see someone from a notable tech companies talk about how they do things. And, “Wow, I wish my group did things like that.” And the person next to me says, “Yeah, me too.” And I check and they work at the same company.And the stories we tell are not necessarily the stories that we live. And it's very easy to come away discouraged from these things. And that goes triply so for large enterprises that are regulated, that have significant downside risk if the technology fails them. And I love watching people getting a chance to tell those stories.Nigel: Let me jump in on that really quickly because—Corey: Please, by all means.Nigel: —one is, you know, having done four years at Google, things are a shitshow internally there, too—Corey: You're talking about it like it's prison. I like it.Nigel: —you know. [laugh]. People get horrified when they turn up and they're like, “Oh, what it's not all gleaming, perfect software artifacts, delivered from the hand of Urs.” But I think what Gene has done with DevOps Enterprise Summit is fantastic in how people share more openly their failure states, but even there—and this is an interesting result we found from a few years ago, State of DevOps Report—even those executives are being more optimistic because it's so beaten into you as the senior executive; you're putting on a public face, and even when they're trying to share the warts-and-all story, they can't help but put a little bit of a positive spin on it. Because I've had exactly the same experience there where someone's up there telling a war story, and then I look, turn to the person next to me, and they work at that same 300-year-old bank, and they're like, “Actually, it's much, much worse than this, and we didn't fix it quite as well as that.” So, I think the big tech companies have terrible inside unless they're Netflix, and the big enterprises are also terrible. But they're also—Corey: No, no, I've talked to Netflix people, too. They do terrible things internally there, too. No one talks about the fact that their internal environments are always tire fires, and there are two stories: the stories we tell publicly, and the reality. And if you don't believe me on that, look at any company in the world's billing system. As much as we all talk about agile and various implementations thereof when it comes to things that charge customers money, we're all doing waterfall.Nigel: Absolutely. [laugh].Corey: Because mistakes show when you triple-charge someone's credit card for the cost of a small country's GDP. It's a problem. I want to normalize those sorts of things more. I'm looking forward to reading this year's report, just because it's interesting to see how folks who are in environments that differ from the ones that I get to see experience in this stuff and how they talk about it.Nigel: Yeah. And so one of the big results I think there for big companies that's really interesting is that one of the, sort of, anti-patterns is having lots of different types of teams. And I kind of touched on this before about having confusing team titles being a real problem. And not being able to cross organizational boundaries quickly is really, really—you know, it's a huge inhibitor and cause, source of friction. But turns out the pattern that is actually really great is one that the Team Topologies guys have discovered.If you've been following what Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais have been doing for a while, they've basically been documenting a pattern in software organizations of a small number of team types, of a platform team, value stream teams, complicated subtest system teams, and enabling teams. And so we worked with Manuel and Matt on this year's report and asked a whole bunch of questions to try and validate the Team Topologies model, and the results came back and they were just incredibly strong. Because I think this speaks to some of the stuff you mentioned before that no one can afford to hire an army of Kubernetes developers, and whatever the hottest technology is in five years, most big companies can't hire an army of those people either. And so the way you get scale internally before those things become commoditized is you build a small team and create the situation where they can have outsized leverage inside their organization, like get rid of all the blockers to fast flow and make their focus self-service to other people. Because if you're making all of your developers learn distributed systems operations arcane knowledge, that's not a good use of their time, either.Corey: It's really not. And I think that's something that gets lost a lot is, I've never yet seen a company beyond the very early startup stage, where the AWS bill exceeded the cost of the people working on the AWS bill. Payroll is always a larger expense than infrastructure unless you're doing something incredibly strange. And, oh, I want to save some money on the cloud bill is very often offset by the sheer amount of time that you're going to have to pay people to work on that because, contrary to what we believe as engineering hobbyists, people's time is very far from free. And it's also the opportunity cost of if you're going to work on this thing instead of something else, well, is that really the best choice? It comes down to contextualizing what technology is doing as well as with what's happening over in the world of business strategy. And without having a bridge between those, it doesn't seem to work very well.Nigel: Absolutely. It's insane. It's literally insane that, as an industry, we will optimize 5%, 3% of our infrastructure bill or application workload and yet not actually reexamine business processes that are causing your people to spend 10% of their time in synchronous meetings. You can save so much more money and achieve so much more by actually optimizing for fast flow, and getting out of the way of the people who cost lots of money.Corey: So, one last topic that I want to cover before we call it an episode. You talk to an awful lot of folks, and it's easy to point at the aspirational stories of folks doing things the right way. But let's dish for a minute. What are you seeing in terms of people not using the cloud properly? I feel like you might have a story or two on that one.Nigel: I do have a few stories. So, in this year's report, one of the things we wanted to find out of, like, are people using the cloud in the way we think of cloud; you know, elastic, consumption-based, all of these sorts of things. We use the NIST metrics, which I recognize can be a little controversial, but I think you've got to start somewhere as a certain foundation. It turns out just about everyone is using the public cloud. And when I say cloud, I'm not really talking about people's internal VMware that they rebadged as cloud; I'm talking about the public cloud providers.Everyone's using it, but almost no one is taking advantage of the functionality of the cloud. They're instead treating it like an on-premise VMware installation from the mid-2000s, they're taking six weeks to provision instances, they're importing all of their existing processes, they keep these things running for a long time if they fall over, one person is tasked with, “Hey, do you know how pet number 45 is actually doing here?” They're not really treating any of these things in the way that they're actually meant to. And I think we forget about this a lot of the time when we talk about cloud because we jump straight to cloud-native, you know, the sort of bleeding edge of folks in serverless, highly orchestrated containers. I think if you look at the actual numbers, the vast majority of cloud usage, it's still things like EC2 instances on AWS. And there's a reason: because it's a familiar paradigm for people. We're definitely going to progress past there, but I think it's easy to leave the people in the middle behind when we're talking about cloud and how to improve the ecosystem that they all operate in.Corey: Part of the problem, too, is that whenever we look at how folks are misusing cloud, it's easy to lose sight of context. People don't generally wake up and decide I'm going to do a terrible job today unless they work in, you know, Facebook's ethics department or something. Instead, it's very much a people are shaped by the constraints they're laboring under from a bunch of different angles, and they're trying to do the best with what they have. Very often, the reason that a practice or a policy exists is because, once upon a time, there was a constraint that may or may not still be there, and going forward the way that they have seemed like the best option at the time. I found that the default assumption that people are generally smart and doing the right thing with the information they have carries you a lot further, in many respects than what I did is a terrible junior consultant, which is, “Oh, what moron built this?” Invariably to said moron, and then the rest of the engagement rapidly goes downhill from there. Try and assume good faith, and if you see something that makes no sense, ask, “Why is it like this?” Rather than, “Why is it like this?” Tone counts for a lot.Nigel: It's the fundamental attribution bias. It's why we think all other drivers on the road are terrible, but we actually had a good reason for swerving into that lane.Corey: “This isn't how I would have built it. So, it's awful.”Nigel: Yeah, exactly.Corey: Yeah. And in some cases, though, there are choices that are objectively bad, but I tried to understand where they came from there. Company policy, historically, around things like data centers, trying to map one-to-one to cloud often miss some nuances. But hey, there's a reason it's called the digital transformation, not a project that we did.Nigel: [laugh]. And I think you've got to always have empathy for the people on the ground. I quite often have talked to folks who've got, like, a terrible cloud architecture with the deployment and I'm like, “Well, what happened here?” And they went, “Well, we were prepared to deploy this whole thing on AWS, but then Microsoft's salespeople got to the CTO and we got told at the last minute we're redeploying everything on Azure.” And so these people were often—you know, you're given a week or two to pivot around the decision that doesn't necessarily make any sense to them.And there may have been a perfectly good reason for the CTO to do this: they got given really good kickbacks in terms of bonuses for, like, how much they were spending on the infrastructure—I mean, discounts—but people on the ground are generally doing the best with what they can do. If they end up building crap, it's because our system, society, capitalism, everything else is at fault.Corey: [laugh]. I have to say, I'm really looking forward to seeing the observations that you wound up putting into this report as soon as it drops. I'm hoping that I get a chance to speak with you again about the findings, and then I can belligerently tell you to justify yourself. Those are my favorite follow-ups.Nigel: [unintelligible 00:37:05].Corey: If people want to get a copy of the report for themselves or learn more about you, where can they find you?Nigel: Just head straight to puppet.com, and it will be on the banner on the front of the site.Corey: Excellent. And will, of course, put a link to that in the show notes, if people can't remember puppet.com. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. I really appreciate it.Nigel: Awesome. No worries. It was good to catch up.Corey: Nigel Kersten, field CTO at Puppet. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice as well as an insulting comment telling me that ‘comcastic' isn't a funny word, and tell me where you work, though we already know.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Screaming in the Cloud
All Along the Shoreline.io of Automation with Anurag Gupta

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 20, 2021 39:15


This week Corey is joined by Anurag Gupta, founder and CEO of Shoreline.io. Anurag guides us through the large variety of services he helped launch to include RDS, Aurora, EMR, Redshift and other. The result? Running things almost like a start-up—but with some distinct differences. Eventually Anurag ended up back in the testy waters of start-ups. He and Corey discuss the nature of that transition to get back to solving holistic problems, tapping into conveying those stories, and what Anurag was able to bring to his team at Shoreline.io where automation is king. Anurag goes into the details of what Shoreline is and what they do. Stay tuned for me.Links: Shoreline.io: https://shoreline.io LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awgupta/ Email: anurag@Shoreline.io TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Your company might be stuck in the middle of a DevOps revolution without even realizing it. Lucky you! Does your company culture discourage risk? Are you willing to admit it? Does your team have clear responsibilities? Depends on who you ask. Are you struggling to get buy in on DevOps practices? Well, download the 2021 State of DevOps report brought to you annually by Puppet since 2011 to explore the trends and blockers keeping evolution firms stuck in the middle of their DevOps evolution. Because they fail to evolve or die like dinosaurs. The significance of organizational buy in, and oh it is significant indeed, and why team identities and interaction models matter. Not to mention weither the use of automation and the cloud translate to DevOps success. All that and more awaits you. Visit: www.puppet.com to download your copy of the report now!Corey: If your familiar with Cloud Custodian, you'll love Stacklet. Which is made by the same people who made Cloud Custodian, but put something useful on top of it so you don't have to be a need to be a YAML expert to work with it. They're hosting a webinar called “Governance as Code: The Guardrails for Cloud at Scale” because its a new paradigm that enables organizations to use code to manage and automate various aspects of governance. If you're interested in exploring this you should absolutely make it a point to sign up, because they're going to have people who know what they're talking about—just kidding they're going to have me talking about this. Its doing to be on Thursday, July 22nd at 1pm Eastern. To sign up visit snark.cloud/stackletwebinar and I'll talk to you on Thursday, July 22nd.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This promoted episode is brought to you by Shoreline, and I'm certain that we're going to get there, but first, I'm notorious for telling the story about how Route 53 is in fact a database, and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Now, AWS today is extraordinarily tight-lipped about whether that's accurate or not, so the next best thing, of course, is to talk to the person who used to run all of AWS's database offerings and start off there and get it from the source. Today, of course, he is not at an Amazon, which means he's allowed to speak with me. My guest is Anurag Gupta, the founder and CEO of Shoreline.io. Anurag, thank you for joining me.Anurag: Thanks for having me on the show, Corey. It's great to be on, and I followed you for a long time. I think of you as AWS marketing, frankly.Corey: The running gag has been that I am the de facto head of AWS marketing as a part-time gag because I wandered past and saw an empty seat and sat down and then got stuck with the role. I mostly kid, but there does seem to be, at times, a bit of a challenge as far as expressing stories and telling those stories in useful ways. And some mistakes just sort of persist stubbornly forever. One of them is in the list of services, Route 53 shows up as ‘networking and content delivery,' which I think regardless of the answer, it doesn't really fit there. I maintain it's a database, but did you have oversight into that along with Glue, Athena, all the RDS options, managed blockchain—for some reason—as well. Was it considered a database internally, or was that not really how they viewed it?Anurag: It's not really how they view it. I mean, certainly there's a long IP table, right, and routing tables, but I think we characterized it in a whole different org. So, I had responsibility for Analytics, Redshift, Glue, EMR, et cetera, and transactional databases: Aurora, RDS, stuff like that.Corey: Very often when you have someone who was working at a very large company—and yes, Amazon has a bunch of small teams internally, but let's face it, they're creeping up on $2 trillion in valuation at the time of this recording—it's fairly common to see that startups are, “Oh, this person was at Amazon for ages.” As if it's some sort of amazing selling point because a company with, what is it, 1.2 million people give or take is absolutely like a relatively small just-founded startup culturally, in terms of resources, all the rest. Conversely, when you're working at scales like that, where the edge case becomes the common case, and the corner case becomes something that happens 18 times an hour, it informs the way you think about things radically differently. And your reputation does precede you, so I'm going to opt for assuming that this is, rather than being the story about, “Oh, we're just going to try and turn this company into the second coming of Amazon,” that there's something that you saw while you were at AWS that you thought it was an unmet need in the ecosystem, and that's what Shoreline is setting out to build. Is that slightly accurate? Or no you're just basic—there's a figurehead because the Amazon name is great for getting investors.Anurag: No, that's very astute. So, when I joined AWS, they gave me eight people and they asked me to go disrupt data warehousing and transaction processing. So, those turned into Redshift and Aurora, respectively, and gradually I added on more services. But in that sense, Amazon does operate like a startup. They really believe in restricting the number of resources you get so that you have time and you're forced to think and be creative.That said, you don't really wake up at night sweating about whether you're going to hit payroll. This is, sort of, my fourth startup at this point and there are sleepless nights at a startup and it's different. I'd go launch a service at AWS and there'll be 1000 people who are signed up to the beta the next day, and that's not the way startups work. But there are advantages as well.Corey: I can definitely empathize with that. My last job before I started this place was at a small scrappy startup which was great for three months and then BlackRock bought us, and then, oh, large regulated finance company combined with my personality ended about the way you think it would. And where, so instead of having the fears and the challenges that I dealt with then, I'm going to go start my own company and have different challenges. And yeah, they are definitely different. I never laid awake at night worrying about how I was going to make payroll, for example.There's also the freedom, in some ways, at large companies where whatever function needs to get done, whatever problem you have, there is some department somewhere that handles that almost exclusively, whereas in scrappy startup land, it's, well, whatever problem needs to get done today, that is your job right now. And your job description can easily fill six pages by the end of month two. It's a question of trade-offs and the rest. What did you see that gave you the idea to go for startup number four?Anurag: So, when I joined AWS thinking I was going to build a bunch of database engines—and I've done that before—what I learned is that building services is different than building products. And in particular, nobody cares about your performance or features if your service isn't up. Inside AWS, we used to talk about utility computing, you know, metering and providing compute storage database the way, you know, my local utility provider, PG&E, provides power and gas. And if I call up PG&E and say that the power is out at my house, I don't really want to hear, “Oh, did you know that we have six nines power availability in the state of California?” I mean, the power is still out; go come over here and fix it. And I don't really care about fancy new features they're doing back at the plant. Really, all I care about is cost and availability.Corey: The idea of utility computing got into that direction, too, in a lot of ways, in some strange nuances, too. The idea that when I flip the light switch, I don't stop and wonder, is the light going to turn on? You know, until I installed IoT switches and then everything's a gamble in the wild times again. And if the light doesn't come on, I assume that the fuse is out, or the light bulb is blown. “Did PG&E wind up dropping service to my neighborhood?” Is sort of the last question that I have done that list. It took a while for cloud to get there, but at this point, if I can't access something in AWS, my default assumption is that is my local internet, not the cloud provider. That was hard-won.Anurag: That's right. And so I think a lot of other SaaS companies—or anybody operating in the cloud—are now working and struggling to get that same degree of availability and confidence to supply to their customers. And so that's really the reason for Shoreline.Corey: There's been a lot of discussion around the idea of availability and what that means for a business outcome where, I still tell the story from time to time that back in 2012 or so, I was going to buy a pair of underpants on amazon.com, where I buy everything, and instead of completing the purchase, it threw one of the great pictures of staff dogs up. Now, if you listen to a lot of reports on availability, then for one day out of the week, I would just not wear underwear. In practice, I waited an hour, tried it again, the purchase went through and it was fine. However, if that happened every third time I tried to make a purchase, I would spend a lot more money at Target.There has to be a baseline level of availability. That doesn't mean that your site is never down, period, because that is, in many cases, an unrealistic aspiration and it turns every outage that winds up coming up down the road into an all-hands-on-deck five-alarm fire, which may not be warranted. But you do need to have a certain level of availability that meets or exceeds your customer's expectations of same. At least that's the way that I've always viewed it.Anurag: I think that's exactly right. I also think it's important to look at it from a customer perspective, not a fleet perspective. So, a lot of people do inward-facing SRE measurements of fleet-wide availability. Now, your customer really cares about the region they're in, or perhaps even the particular host they're on. And that's even more true if they've got data. So, for example, an individual database failing, it'll take a long time for it to come back up elsewhere. That's different than something more ephemeral, like an instance, which you can move more easily.Corey: Part of the challenge that I've noticed as well when dealing with large cloud providers, a recurring joke has been the AWS status page: it is the purest possible expression of a static site because it never changes. And people get upset when things go down and the status page isn't updated, but the challenge is when you're talking about something that is effectively global scale, it stops being a question of is it up or is it down and transitions long before then into how up or how down is it? And things that impact one customer may very well completely miss another. If you're being an absolutist, it will always be a sea of red, which doesn't tell people anything useful. Whereas if a customer is down and their site is off, they don't really care that most other customers aren't affected.I mean, on some level, you kind of want everyone to be down because that differs headline risk, as well as if my site is having a problem, it could be days before someone gets around to fixing a small bug, whereas if everything is down, oh, this will be getting attention very rapidly.Anurag: That's exactly right. Sounds like you've done ops before.Corey: Oh, yes. You can tell that because I'm cynical and bitter about everything.Anurag: [laugh].Corey: It doesn't take long working in operationally-focused roles to get there. I appreciate your saying that though. Usually, people say, “Let me guess. You used to be an ops person.” “How can you tell?” “Because your code is garbage,” is the other way that people go down that path.And yeah, credit where due; they're not wrong. You mentioned that back when you were in Amazon, you were given a team of eight people and told to disrupt the data warehouse. Yeah, I've disrupted the data warehouse as a single person before so it doesn't seem that hard. But I'm guessing you mean something beyond causing an outage. It's more about disrupting the space, presumably.Anurag: [crosstalk 00:10:57].Corey: And I think, looking back from 2021, it's hard to argue that Amazon hasn't disrupted the data warehouse space and fifteen other spaces besides.Anurag: Yeah, so that's what we were all about, sort of trying to find areas of non-consumption. So clearly, data was growing; data warehousing was not growing at the same rate. We figured that had to do with either a cost problem, or it had to do with a simplicity problem, or something else. Why aren't people analyzing the data that they're collecting? So, that led to Redshift. A similar problem in transaction processing led to Aurora and various other things.Corey: You also said a couple of minutes ago that Amazon tends to talk more about features than they do about products, and building a product at a startup is a foundationally different experience. I think you're absolutely on to something there. Historically, Amazon has folks get on stage at re:Invent and talk about this new thing that got released, and it feels an awful lot like a company saying, “Yeah, here's some great bricks you can use to build a house.” “Well, okay. What kind of house can I build with those bricks?” “Here to talk about the house that they built as our guest customer speaker from Netflix.”And it seems like they sort of abdicated, in many respects, the storytelling portion to a number of their customers. It is a very rare startup that has the luxury of being able to just punt on building a product and its product story that goes along with it. Have you found that your time at Amazon made storytelling something that you wound up missing a bit more, or retelling stories internally that we just don't get to see from the outside, or is, “Oh, wow. I never learned to tell a story before because at Amazon, no one does that, and I have to learn how to do that now that I'm at a startup again?”Anurag: No, I think it really is a storytelling experience. I mean, it's a narrative-based culture there, which is, in many ways, a storytelling experience. So, we were trying to provide a set of capabilities so that people could build their own things, you know, much as Kindle allows people to self-publish books; we're not really writing books of our own. And so I think that was the experience there. Outside, you are trying to solve more holistic problems, but you're still only a puzzle piece in the experience that any given customer has, right? You don't satisfy all of their needs, you know, soup to nuts.Corey: And part of the challenge too, is that if I'm a small, scrappy startup, trying to get something out the door for the first time, the problems that I'm experiencing and the challenges that I have are radically different than something that has attained hyperscale and now has whole optimization stories or series of stories going on. It's, will this thing even work at all is my initial focus. And in some ways, it feels like conference-ware cuts against a lot of that because it's hard not to look at the aspirational version of events that people tell on stage at every event I've ever seen, and not come away with a takeaway of, “Oh. What I've built is actually terrible, and depressing, and sad.” One of the things that I find that resonates about what you're building over at Shoreline is, it's not just about the build things from scratch and get them provisioned for the first time. It's about the ongoing operationalization, I think—if that's a word—about that experience, and how to wind up handling the care and feeding of something that exists and is running, but is also subject to change because all things are continually being iterated on.Anurag: That's right. I feel like operation is sort of an increasingly important but underappreciated part of the service delivery experience much as, maybe, QA was a couple of decades ago. And over time we've gone and we built pipelines to automate our test infrastructure, we have deployment tools to deploy it, to configure it, but what's weird is that there are two parts of the puzzle that are still highly manual: developing software and operating that software in production. And the other thing that's interesting about that is that you can decide when you are working on developing a piece of code, or testing it, or deploying it, or configuring it. You don't get to decide when the disk goes down or something breaks. That's why you have 24/7 on-call.And so the whole point of Shoreline is to break that into two problems: the things that are automatable, and make it easy, as trivial to automate those things away so you don't wake up to do something for the tenth time; and then for the remaining things that are novel, to make diagnosing and repairing your fleet, as simple and straightforward as diagnosing and repairing a single box. And we do a lot of distributed systems [techs 00:16:01] underneath the covers to make that the case. But those are the two things that we do, and so hopefully that reduces people's downtime and it also brings back a lot of time for the operators so they can focus on higher-value things, like working with you to reduce their AWS bill.Corey: Yeah, for better or worse, working on the AWS bill is always sort of a backseat function, or a backburner function, it's never the burning priority unless things have gone seriously awry. It's a good governance thing; it's the idea of where, let's optimize this fixed unit economics. It is rarely the number one most pressing area of business for a company. Nor should it be; I think people are sometimes surprised to hear me say that. You want to be reasonable stewards of the money entrusted to you and you obviously want to continue to remain in business by not losing money on everything you sell, but trying to make it up in volume. But at some point, it's time to stop cutting and focus instead on revenue growth. That is usually the path to success for almost every company I've ever spoken to, unless they are either very out of kilter, or in a very strange spot in the industry.Anurag: That's true, but it does belong, I think, in the ops function to do optimization of your experience, whether—and, you know, improving your resources, improving your security posture, all of those sorts of things fall into production ops landscape, from my perspective. But people just don't have time for it because their fleets are growing far, far faster than their headcount is. So, the only solution to that is automation.Corey: And I want to talk to you about that. Historically, the idea has been that you have monitoring—or observability these days, which I consider to be hipster monitoring—figuring out what's going on in your environment. Then you wind up with incidents being declared when certain things wind up triggering, which presumably are things that actually matter and not, you're waking someone up for vague reasons like ‘load average is high on these nodes,' which tells you nothing in isolation whatsoever. So, you have the incident management portion of that [next 00:18:03], and that handles a lot of the waking folks up and getting everyone onto the call. You're focusing on, I guess, a third tranche here, which is the idea of incident automation. Tell me about that.Anurag: That's exactly right. So, having been in the trenches, I never got excited about one more dashboard to look at, or someone routing a ticket to the right person, per se, because it'll get there, right?Corey: Oh, yeah. Like, one of the most depressing things you'll ever see in a company is the utilization numbers from the analytics on the dashboards you build for people. They look at them the day you build them and hand it off, and then the next person visiting it is you while running this report to make sure the dashboard is still there.Anurag: Yeah. I mean, they are important things. I mean, you get this huge sinking feeling something is wrong and your observability tool is also down like CloudWatch was in some large-scale events. Or if your ticketing system is down and you don't even notify somebody and you don't even know to wake up. But what did excite me—so you need those things; they're necessary, but they're not sufficient.What I think is also needed is something that actually reduces the number of tickets, not just lets you observe them or find the right person to act upon it. So, automation is the path to reducing tickets, which is when I got excited because that was one less thing to wake up on that gave me more time back to wo—do things, and most importantly, it improved my customer availability because any individual issue handled manually is going to take an hour or two or three to deal with. The issue being done by a computer is going to take a few seconds or a few minutes. It's a whole different thing. It's the difference between a glitch and having to go out on an apology tour to your customers.Corey: I really love installing, upgrading, and fixing security agents in my cloud estate! Why do I say that? Because I sell things, because I sell things for a company that deploys an agent, there's no other reason. Because let's face it. Agents can be a real headache. Well, now Orca Security gives you a single tool that detects basically every risk in your cloud environment -- and that's as easy to install and maintain as a smartphone app. It is agentless, or my intro would've gotten me into trouble here, but  it can still see deep into your AWS workloads, while guaranteeing 100% coverage. With Orca Security, there are no overlooked assets, no DevOps headaches, and believe me you will hear from those people if you cause them headaches. and no performance hits on live environments. Connect your first cloud account in minutes and see for yourself at orca.security. Thats “Orca” as in whale, “dot” security as in that things you company claims to care about but doesn't until right after it really should have.Corey: Oh, yes. I feel like those of us who have been in the ops world for long enough, we always have a horror story or to have automation around incidents run amok. A classic thing that we learned by doing this, for example, is if you have a primary and a secondary, failover should be automated. Failing back should not be, or you wind up in these wonderful states of things thrashing back and forth. And in many cases in data center land, if you have a phantom router ready to step in, if the primary router goes offline, more outages are caused by a heartbeat failure between those two devices, and they both start vying for power.And that becomes a problem. Same story with a lot of automation approaches. For example, if oh, every time a disc winds up getting full, all right, we're going to fire off something automatically expand the volume. Well, without something to stop that feedback loop, you're going to potentially wind up with an unbounded growth problem and then you wind up with having no more discs to expand the volume to, being the way that winds up smacking into things. This is clearly something you've thought about, given that you have built a company out of this, and this is not your first rodeo by a long stretch. How do you think about those things?Anurag: So, I think you're exactly right there, again. So, the key here is to have the operator, or the SRE, define what needs to happen on an individual box, but then provide guardrails around them so that you can decide, oh, a lot of these things have happened at the same time; I'm going to put a rate limiter or a circuit breaker on it and then send it off to somebody else to look at manually. As you said, like failover, but don't flap back and forth, or limit the number of times, but something is allowed to fail before you send it [unintelligible 00:21:44]. Finally, everything grounds that a human being looking at something, but that's not a reason not to do the simple stuff automatically because wasting human intelligence and time on doing just manual stuff again, and again, and again, is pointless, and also increases the likelihood that they're going to cause errors because they're doing something mundane rather than something that requires their intelligence. And so that also is worse than handing it off to be automated.But there are a lot of guardrails that can be put around this—that we put around it—that is the distributed systems part of it that we provide. In some sense, we're an orchestration system for automation, production ops, the same way that other people provide an orchestration system for deployments, and automated rollback, and so forth.Corey: What technical stacks do you wind up supporting for stuff like this? Is it anything you can effectively SSH into? Does it integrate better with certain cloud providers than others? Is it only for cloud and not for folks with data center environments? Where do you start? Where do you stop?Anurag: So, we have started with AWS, and with VMs and Kubernetes on AWS. We're going to expand to the other major cloud providers later this year and likely go to VMware on-prem next year. But finally, customers tell us what to do.Corey: Oh, yeah. Looking for things that have no customer usage is—that's great and all, but talking to folks who are like, “Yeah, it'd be nice if it had this.” “Will you buy it if it does?” “No.” “Yeah, let's maybe put that one on the backlog.”Anurag: And you've done startups, too, I see that.Corey: Oh, once or twice. Talk to customers; I find that's one of those things that absolutely is the most effective use of your time you can do. Looking at your site—Shoreline.io for those who want to follow along at home—it lists a few different remediations that you give as examples. And one of them is expanding disk volumes as they tend to run out of space. I'm assuming from that perspective alone, that you are almost certainly running some form of Agent.Anurag: We are running an Agent. So, part of that is because that way, we don't need credentials so that you can just run inside the customer environment directly and without your having to pass credentials to some third party. Part of it is also so you can do things quickly. So, every second, we'll scrape thousands of metrics from the Prometheus exporter ecosystem, calculate thousands more, compare them against hundreds of alarms, and then take action when necessary. And so if you run on-box, that can be done far faster than if you go on off-box.And also, a lot of the problems that happen in the production environment are related to networking, and it's not like the box isn't accessible, but it may be that the monitoring path is not accessible. So, you really want to make sure that the box can protect itself even if there's some issues somewhere in the fleet. And that really becomes an important thing because that's the only time that you need incident automation: when something's gone wrong.Corey: I assume that Agent then has specific commands or tasks it's able to do, or does it accept arbitrary command execution?Anurag: Arbitrary command execution. Whatever you can type in at the Linux command prompt, whether it's a call to the AWS CLI, Kube control, Linux commands like top, or even shell scripts, you can automate using Shoreline.Corey: Yeah. That was one of the ways that Nagios got it wrong, once upon a time, with their NRP, their Nagios Remote Plugin engine, where you would only be allowed to run explicit things that had been pre-approved and pushed out to things in advance. And it's one of the reasons, I suspect, why remediation in those days never took off. Now, we've learned a lot about observability and monitoring, and keeping an eye on things that have grown well beyond host-based stuff, so it's nice to see that there is growth in that. I'm much more optimistic about it this time around, based upon what you're saying.Anurag: I hope you're right because I think the key thing also is that I think a lot of these tools vendors think of themselves as the center of the universe, whereas I think Shoreline works the best if it's entirely invisible. That's what you want from a feedback control system, from a automation system: that it just give you time back and issues are just getting fixed behind the scenes. That's actually what a lot of AWS is doing behind the scenes. You're not seeing something whenever some rack goes down.Corey: The thing that is always taken me back—and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to learn this lesson before it sticks—I fall into the common trap of take any one of the big internationally renowned tech companies, and it's easy to believe that oh, everything inside is far future wizardry of, everything works super well, the automation is flawless, everything is pristine, and your environment compared to that is relative garbage. It turns out that every company I've ever spoken with and taken SREs from those companies out to have way too many drinks until they hit honesty levels, they always talk about it being a sad dumpster fire in a bunch of different ways. And we're talking some of the companies that people laud as the aspirational, your infrastructure should be like these companies. And I find it really important to continue to socialize that point, just because the failure mode otherwise is people think that their company just employs terrible engineers and if people were any good, it would be seamless, just like they say on conference stages. It's like comparing your dating life to a romantic comedy; it's not an accurate depiction of how the world works.Anurag: Yeah, that's true. That said, I'd say that, like, the average DBA working on-prem may be managing a hundred databases; the average DBA in RDS—or somebody on call—might be managing a hundred thousand.Corey: At that point, automation is no longer optional.Anurag: Yeah. And the way you get there is, every week you squash and extinguish one thing forever, and then you start seeing less and less frequent things because one in a million is actually occurring to you. But if it was one in a hundred, that would just crush you. And so you just need to, you know, very diligently every week, every day, remove something. Yeah, Shoreline is in many ways the product I wish I had had at AWS because it makes automating that stuff easy, a matter of minutes, rather than months. And so that gives you the capability to do automation. Everyone wants automation, but the question is, why don't they do it? And it's just because it takes so much time and we're so busy, as operators.Corey: Absolutely. I don't mean to say that these large companies working at hyperscale have not solved for these problems and done truly impressive things, but there's always sharp edges, there's always things that are challenging and tricky. On this show, we had Dr. Christina Maslach recently as an expert on burnout, given that she spent her entire career studying occupational burnout as an academic. And it turns out that it's not—to equate this to the operations world—it's not waking up at two in the morning to have to fix a problem—generally—that burns people out. It's being woken up to fix a problem at 2 a.m. consistently, and it's always the same problem and nothing ever seems to change. It's the worst ops jobs I've ever seen are the ones where you have to wake up to fix a thing, but you're not empowered to actually fix the cause, just the symptom.Anurag: I couldn't agree more and that's the other aspect of Shoreline is to allow the operators or SREs to build the remediations rather than just put a ticket into some queue for some developer to get prioritized alongside everything else. Because you're on the sharp edge when you're doing ops, right, to deal with all the consequences of the issues that are raised. And so it's fine that you say, “Okay, there's this memory leak. I'll create a ticket back to dev to go and fix it.” But I need something that helps me actually fix it here and now. Or if there's a log that's filling up my disk, it's fine to tell somebody about it, but you have to grow your disk or move that log off the disk. And you don't want to have to wake up for those things.Corey: No. And the idea that everything like this gets fixed is a bit of a misnomer. One of my hobbies is whenever a site goes down and it is uncovered—sometimes very publicly, sometimes in RCEs—that the actual reason everything broke was due to an expired certificate.Anurag: Yep.Corey: I like to go and schedule out a couple of calendar reminders on that one for myself, of check it in 90 days, in case they're using a refresh from Let's Encrypt, and let's check it as well in one year and see if there's another outage just like that. It has a non-zero success rate because as much as we want to convince ourselves that, oh, that bit me once, and I'll never get bitten like that again, that doesn't always hold true.Anurag: Certificates are a very common source of very widespread outages. And it's actually one of the remediations we provide out of the box. So, alongside making it possible for people to create these things quickly, we also provide what we call Op Packs, which are basically getting started things which have the metrics, alarms, actions, bots, so they can just fix it forever without actually having to do very much other than review what we have done.Corey: And that's, on some level, I think, part of the magic is abstracting away the toil so that people are left to solve interesting problems and think about these things, and guiding them down a path where, okay, what should I do on an automatic basis if the disk fills up? Well, I should extend the volume. Yeah. But maybe you should alert after the fifth time in an hour that you have to extend the same volume because—just spitballing here—maybe there's a different problem here that putting a bandaid on isn't going to necessarily solve. It forces people to think about what are those triggers that should absolutely result in human intervention because you don't necessarily want to solve things like memory leaks, for example, oh our application leaks memory so we have to restart it once a day.Now, in practice, the right way to solve that is to fix the application. In practice, there are so many cron jobs out there that are set to restart things specifically for that reason because cron jobs are quick and easy and application developer time is absolutely not easy to come by in many of these shops. It just comes down to something that helps enforce more of a process, more of a rigor. I like the idea quite a bit; it aligns both with where people are and how a better tomorrow starts to look. I really do think you're onto something here.Anurag: I mean, I think it's one of these things where you just have to understand it's not either-or, that it's not a question of operator pain or developer pain. It's, let's go and address it in the here and now and also provide the information, also through an automated ticket generation, to where someone can look to fix it forever, at source.Corey: Oh, yeah. It's always great of the user experience, too. Having those tickets created automatically is also sometimes handy because the worst way to tell someone you don't care about their problem when they come to you in a panic is, “Have you opened a ticket?” And yes, of course, you need a ticket to track these things, but maybe when someone is ghost pale and scared to death about what they think just broke the data, maybe have a little more empathy there. And yeah, the process is important, but there should be automatic ways to do that. These things all have APIs. I really like your vision of operational maturity and managing remediation, in many cases, on an automatic basis.Anurag: I think it's going to be so much more important in a world where deployments are more frequent. You have microservices, you have multiple clouds, you have containers that give a 10x increase in the number of things you have to manage. There's a lot for operators to have to keep in their heads. And things are just changing constantly with containers. Every minute, someone comes and one goes. So, you just really need to—even if you're just doing it for diagnosis, it needs to be collecting it and putting it aside, is really critical.Corey: If people want to learn more about what you're building and how you think about these things, where can they find you?Anurag: They can reach out to me on LinkedIn at awgupta, or of course, they can go to Shoreline.io and reach out there, where I'm also anurag@Shoreline.io if they want to reach out directly. And we'd love to get people demos; we know there's a lot of pain out there. Our mission is to reduce it.Corey: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I really appreciate it.Anurag: Yeah. This was a great privilege to talk to you.Corey: Anurag Gupta, CEO and founder of Shoreline.io. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a comment telling me that I'm wrong and that Amazonians are the best at being on call because they carry six pagers.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Laborwave Revolution Radio
Shop Floor Organizing at Amazon w/ Amazonians United Chicagoland

Laborwave Revolution Radio

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 1, 2021 59:34


Ruby and Zama, workers at Amazon and members of Amazonians United, join the show to discuss their methods of shop floor organizing and direct unionism. They share stories of how AU emerged, initially through breaking bread and resocializing the workplace, to their first direct action demanding access to water in the shop. We also discussed the dismissal of AU by proponents of business unionism, and offer a critique of conventional labor union practices. Learn more about AU at https://www.amazoniansunited.org/ Please support Laborwave Radio by subscribing to our patreon at patreon.com/laborwave We have gifts depending on the tier you join, and exclusive access to our archives and Discord server. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, it helps our content reach new listeners. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/laborwave-radio/id1536697871 Music: Ty Segall- Love Fuzz

Amazonian Talk
Thy Is Worthy

Amazonian Talk

Play Episode Listen Later May 21, 2021 35:01


Listen up #Amazonians! We have to stop comparing ourselves to others and allowing those expectations to guide us. We get it...its easier said than done because of society's standards.  Lets work on being worthy in our eyes first.

Screaming in the Cloud
Driving State-of-the-Art DevOps with Nathen Harvey

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later May 20, 2021 33:42


About NathenNathen Harvey, Cloud Developer Advocate at Google, helps the community understand and apply DevOps and SRE practices in the cloud.  Nathen formerly led the Chef community, co-hosted the Food Fight Show, and managed operations and infrastructure for a diverse range of web applications. Links: cloud.google.com/devops: https://cloud.google.com/devops 97 Things every Cloud Engineer Should Know: https://shop.aer.io/oreilly/p/97-things-every/9781492076735-9149 Twitter: https://twitter.com/nathenharvey TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Thinkst. This is going to take a minute to explain, so bear with me. I linked against an early version of their tool, canarytokens.org in the very early days of my newsletter, and what it does is relatively simple and straightforward. It winds up embedding credentials, files, that sort of thing in various parts of your environment, wherever you want to; it gives you fake AWS API credentials, for example. And the only thing that these things do is alert you whenever someone attempts to use those things. It’s an awesome approach. I’ve used something similar for years. Check them out. But wait, there’s more. They also have an enterprise option that you should be very much aware of canary.tools. You can take a look at this, but what it does is it provides an enterprise approach to drive these things throughout your entire environment. You can get a physical device that hangs out on your network and impersonates whatever you want to. When it gets Nmap scanned, or someone attempts to log into it, or access files on it, you get instant alerts. It’s awesome. If you don’t do something like this, you’re likely to find out that you’ve gotten breached, the hard way. Take a look at this. It’s one of those few things that I look at and say, “Wow, that is an amazing idea. I love it.” That’s canarytokens.org and canary.tools. The first one is free. The second one is enterprise-y. Take a look. I’m a big fan of this. More from them in the coming weeks.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Lumigo. If you've built anything from serverless, you know that if there's one thing that can be said universally about these applications, it's that it turns every outage into a murder mystery. Lumigo helps make sense of all of the various functions that wind up tying together to build applications.It offers one-click distributed tracing so you can effortlessly find and fix issues in your serverless and microservices environment. You've created more problems for yourself. Make one of them go away. To learn more, visit lumigo.io.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I’m Corey Quinn. I’m joined this week by Nathen Harvey, a cloud developer advocate at a small startup called Google. Nathen, thank you for joining me.Nathen: Hey, Corey. It’s really great to be here.Corey: We’ll get to the Google bits in a little, but first, I want to start back in the beginning with your origin story. It turns out, for example, that you were at a lot of places, and the first thing going through your history that I really recognized was way back at the end of 2009, where you were the web operations manager at Custom Ink. They’re a t-shirt company—and other apparel—that I’ve been using for three years now for the charity t-shirt drive here, as well as other sundry things. Longtime listeners of the show might remember we had Ken Collins on to talk about Ruby in Lambda and other horrifying things, before it was cool.Nathen: Yes, indeed, I was at Custom Ink. And, you know, you talk about them being a t-shirt company, and I don’t know… maybe I’m still a shill for Custom Ink, but I really look at them as an experience company. And you’ve recognized that yourself. They produce and help people, really encourage that group and experiences, and really drive what does it mean to connect with other humans, and how can you do that through custom apparel? To me, that’s what Custom Ink has always been about. They’re not selling t-shirts; they are selling an experience.Corey: In my case, I view them as a t-shirt company because, let’s be fair here, I wind up doing charity t-shirt drives, and they’ve always been extremely supportive of—well, there’s really no other way to put this—my ridiculous nonsense. The year I had linked campaigns of the ‘AMI has three syllables’ shirt that was on sale, and then for the Amazonians, ‘ah-mi’ is how it’s pronounced instead and that one was $10 more because there’s a price to being wrong. And all proceeds, of course, went to benefit the charity of the year. And that was a fun thing. And I talked to a number of other folks on this, and they look at me very strangely, and Custom Ink didn’t even blink.Nathen: Right, right. Absolutely. Absolutely.Corey: And yes, they said lots of other apparel, but for whatever reason, it seems that sending out complicated multiple options of things that need each hit minimum order quantities to print during a fundraiser, and the fact that I don’t have to deal with the money because they just wind up sending it over directly. It’s just easier. It’s one of those things where back when I was a single person who was doing this stuff, I didn’t have to worry about it. Now that I’ve grown and my needs have multiplied, I still like doing business with them. Great folks.Nathen: Absolutely. And that’s exactly what I mean by—like, they’ve sold you on that experience. That’s why you continue to do business with them. It’s not just because of the t-shirts. It’s the whole package that goes along with it.Corey: And then in 2012, the world didn’t end. But yours kind of did because you stopped working at Custom Ink and went to another company called Chef. You were there for a little over six years. You started off as a community director and then became the VP of Community Development. And I think you did an amazing job, but first tell me about that, then I will give my hot take.Nathen: All right, great. I’m always up for the hot takes. So listen, Chef was an amazing community of people. Oh, it was also a company. And so I really fell in love with—while I was at Custom Ink, actually, we were using Chef, and I fell in love with the community.And I was doing a lot of community support, running my own podcast, or participating with some co-hosts on a podcast called the Food Fight Show back in the day—it was all about Chef—running meetups and so forth. And at one point I decided, you know, what I should do maybe is stop being on call and start supporting this community full time. And that’s exactly what I did. I went to Chef and yes, as you mentioned, spent just over six years there, or just about six years there, and it was really, really an incredible time. Lots of hugs to be given, and just a great community in the DevOps space.Corey: I took a somewhat, I guess, agreeing or disagreeing position. I was on the Puppet side of the configuration management debate, and it was challenging. And then, ah, I was one of the very early developers behind SaltStack because clearly, the problem with all of these things was that no one had written it correctly, and we were going to fix that. And it turns out no, no, the problem was customers the whole time. But that’s a separate debate.So, I was never in the Chef ecosystem. That was the one system I never really touched in anger. And it’s easy to turn this into a, “Oh, you folks were the competition,” despite the fact I’ve never actually worked directly for either of those companies. But it was never like that because our real enemies were people configuring things by hand, for one because that’s unnecessary toil; don’t do it, and it was also just such an uplifting sense of community. Some of the best people I knew were in the Chef ecosystem, in the Chef orbit.For a while, they’re, on some level—and this is something I’d love to get your thoughts on—it seems that a failure mode that Chef exhibited was hiring directly from its community, where if someone was a big fan of Chef, start a stopwatch, they’re going to be working there before the month is out.Nathen: I think that Chef, the company definitely pulled a lot of community members into the organization. And frankly, when the company started, that was really, really great because it was an early startup. And as the company grew, it was still wonderful, of course, to pull in people from the community to really help drive the future direction, how our customers are using it. But like you said, there is a little bit of a challenge or concern when you start pulling too many of your most vocal supporters out of the community and putting them into the company, sometimes in places or roles where they didn’t have the opportunity to be as vocal, as big a champions for the product, for the services.Corey: I think at some level, it was—again, it helps to have people who are passionate about the product working there, but on the other, it felt like over time, it wound up weakening the community in some respects, just because everyone who worked there eventually found themselves in a scenario of well, I work here, it’s what we do, and now I have to say nice things. It winds up weakening the grassroot story.Nathen: Mmm. There’s definitely some truth to that, but I think there’s also some truths to just the evolution of community as you went from a community in the early days where there were a lot of contributors to over time—gratefully so—the community that—or sort of the proportion of the community that were consumers of Chef versus contributors to Chef, that balance changed. And so you had a lot more customers using the product. So, I don’t disagree with you, but I do think that it’s part of the natural evolution of community as well.Corey: And all things must end. And of course, Chef got acquired, I believe, after you left. So, I mean, at that point, you left, they were rudderless and what else were they to do? And you went to Google. And that is always an interesting story because Google’s community interaction before the time you wound up there, and after—I don’t know that you were necessarily the proximate cause, but I’m going to hang that around your neck because it’s all been a positive change since then—look radically different.Nathen: Yeah. Well, thank you. It is definitely not something that I should wear or carry alone, but going to Google was an interesting choice for me and I recognize that. And, you know, honestly, Corey, one of the things that drove me to Google was a good friend of mine, Seth Vargo. And just to kind of tie the complete throughline here, Seth and I worked together at Custom Ink, we’ve worked together at Chef, he left Chef and went to Hashi, and then went to Google. And the day after I knew that he was going to Google, I called him up and I said, “Seth, come on. Google’s so big. Why? Why? And how? I don’t understand. I don’t understand the move.”Corey: I asked him many of the same questions back in episode three of this show. He was a very early guest when I was scared speechless having conversations. It’s improved since then, a couple hundred in. But yeah, very friendly; very open; very warm.Nathen: Yeah. And, you know—Corey: “Why are you at Google?” was sort of the next follow-on question there in that era.Nathen: [laugh]. Yes, indeed. And I do think that Google, and specifically Google Cloud, has really taken to heart this idea that there’s a lot that we can learn from each other. And I don’t mean from each other within Google. Although, of course, we can learn a lot from each other.But we can also learn a lot from our community, from our customer base. How are they using Google Cloud? How are they using technology to drive their business forward? These are all things that we can learn. It turns out, not every company has Google, and that’s a good thing.Not every company should be Google or Google-sized, and certainly don’t have Google customers. And I think that it’s really important that we recognize that when we work with a customer, they’re the experts in their customers, and in their systems, and so forth.Corey: A lot has changed with Google’s approach to, well, basically everything. It turns out that when you’re a company that is, what, 26 years old now—27, something like that—starting with humble beginnings and then becoming a trillion-dollar entity, things change. Culture change, your community changes, what you do changes, and that becomes something that I think is not necessarily fully appreciated or fully understood in some corners. But then 2018 hit. You went to Google; what did you do then?Because it is such a large company that it is very difficult to know what any individual is up to there, and the primary means that I engage in the DevRel community space—specifically via aggressively shitposting on Twitter—isn’t really your means of interacting with the community. So, from that particular point of view, it’s, “Oh, yeah, he went to Google, and no one ever heard from him again.” What is it you say it is you do there?Nathen: Yeah. So, for sure. What I do here as a cloud advocate, is I really focus in on kind of two areas, I would say: DevOps—and I recognize that is a terrible, terrible word because when I say it, we all think of different things, but I definitely focus on the DevOps—and then SRE practices as well, or Site Reliability Engineering. And specifically what I work on is how do we bring the principles and practices of DevOps, of SRE, into our customer base and into the community at large? How do we drive what is the state of the art?How do we approach these particular topics? And so that’s really what I’ve been focused on since joining Google. Well, frankly, I was focused on that while at Chef, as well, maybe without the SRE bend so much, but certainly at Google SRE comes in, but it’s always—for the past decade for me—been about DevOps and how do we use technology to align the humans and work towards the business outcomes that we’re driving for?Corey: And business outcomes become an interesting story in the world of cloud because it distills down, for a cloud service provider is, we would like people to use our cloud, more of it, in perpetuity. It is not a complicated business model—if I can be direct—because business models inherently are not. “Whatever it is your company does, we would like you to do it here.” And that turns into a bunch of differentiated services across the spectrum, in some cases hilariously so, when it turns into basically pick an English word, and there’s a 50/50 shot that’s part of a service name somewhere. But a lot of it distills down to baseline distinct primitives.You’re talking about the DevOps aspect of it, which is—we talk about, is it culture? Is it tools? No, it’s a means to sell conferences, and books, and things like that. But what is it in the context of a cloud service provider? Specifically, Google because let’s be clear here, DevOps apparently for other providers is Azure DevOps. That’s right. It’s a service name, and DevOps Guru on the AWS side because everything is terrible.Nathen: Absolutely. Look, I think that I used to snark that the only DevOps tool was the manager of DevOps. But the truth is that DevOps is… it is tooling, and it is culture, and to separate the two is really a fool’s errand. I think that your tooling amplifies your culture, your culture amplifies your tooling. Together, this is how we make progress.Now, when it comes to Google, what do we mean when we say DevOps? Well, one of the good things is, shortly after I joined Google Cloud, Google Cloud acquired DORA, the DevOps Research and Assessment Organization.Corey: Jez Humble, and Dr. Nicole Forsgren. And then, for all intents and purposes, they googled it. Relatively shortly thereafter, by which I mean, we never really heard from DORA again. In 2020, the “State of DevOps Report” didn’t exist, which was what they were famous for doing. And it was, “Oh, yep. That’s a Google acquisition all right.” Is that what happened? Did I miss some nuance there?Nathen: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. So first, you’re right, it was Dr. Nicole Forsgren, who founded DORA. So, when the acquisition happened, she came along to Google Cloud, Jez Humble came along through that acquisition as well. And frankly, what happened in 2020? Well, Corey, I don’t know if you noticed, but there was a lot happening in 2020, much of it not very good. I think when we look at the global scale, like, 2020 was not a great year for us—Corey: It was a rebuilding year.Nathen: Oh, all right, fair enough. Fair enough. [laugh]. A rebuilding year. But so here’s what happened with DORA, quite frankly. We—Google Cloud—continue to invest in that research program. And really, in a sense, 2020 was a rebuilding year, in that our focus was really about how do we help our customers and our community apply the lessons of DORA?And so one of the things that we’ve done is we’ve released much of the research under cloud.google.com/devops, including right there, a DevOps quick check where, as a team you can go in and, using the metrics and the research program from DORA, you can assess, are you a low, medium, high, or elite performer?And then beyond that assessment, actually use the research to help you identify which capabilities should my team invest in improving. So, those capabilities might be technical capabilities, things like continuous integration; it might be process or measurement capabilities, or in fact, cultural capabilities. So, all of these capabilities come together to help you improve your overall software delivery and operations performance. And so in 2020, the big thing that we did was release and continue to update this Quick Check, release the research, make it fully available. We’ve also spent some time internally on the program that, you know, is not super interesting to talk about on the podcast.But the other thing that we did in 2020 with the DORA research program was update the ROI research, the return on investment research. This is something that maybe your listeners don’t care about, but their managers might care about, their CIOs, CTOs, CFOs might care about. How do we get money back on this transformation thing? And the research paper really digs into exactly that. How do we measure that? What returns can we expect? And so forth. So, that was released in 2020.Corey: I have a whole bunch of angry thoughts about a lot of takes in that space, but this is neither the time nor the place for me to begin ranting incoherently for an hour and a half. But yeah, I get that it was a year that was off, and now you’re doing it again, apparently, in 2021. And the one thing I never really saw historically because I don’t know if I’m playing in the wrong environments, or I’m certainly not the target [laugh] audience now, if I ever really was, but most years, I missed the release of the survey of where people can go to fill in these questions. I would be interested to know where that is now. And then I would be interested to know, how have you been socializing in that in the past? In other words, where are you finding these people?Nathen: Yeah, for sure. So, the place you go to find the survey right now is cloud.google.com/devops, you’ll find a button on the page that says something like, “Take the survey,” or, “Take the 2021 survey.”And what we’ve done in the past, and really what DORA has done in the past is use a number of different ways to get out information about the survey, when the survey is open, and so forth. Primarily Twitter, but also we have partners, and DORA historically has used partners as well to help share that the survey itself is open. So, I would absolutely recommend that you go and check out the survey because I’ll tell you what, one of the things that’s really interesting, Corey, over the years, I’ve talked to a bunch of people that have taken the survey, and that have read the State of DevOps Report that comes out each year, and some of the consistent feedback I’ve heard from folks is that simply taking the survey and considering the questions that are asked as part of the survey gives great insight immediately into how their team can improve. What things, what capabilities are they lacking? Or what capabilities are they doing really well with and they don’t need to make investments on? They can immediately see that just by answering and carefully considering the questions that are part of the survey.Corey: This episode is sponsored by ExtraHop. ExtraHop provides threat detection and response for the Enterprise (not the starship). On-prem security doesn’t translate well to cloud or multi-cloud environments, and that’s not even counting IoT. ExtraHop automatically discovers everything inside the perimeter, including your cloud workloads and IoT devices, detects these threats up to 35 percent faster, and helps you act immediately. Ask for a free trial of detection and response for AWS today at extrahop.com/trial.Corey: Very often, in some cases looking at things like maturity models and the like, the actual report is less valuable than the exercise of filling it out and going through the process. I mean, compliance reports, audit framework, et cetera, often lead to the same outcomes. The question is, are you taking it seriously, or are you one of those folks who is filling out a survey because do this and you’ll be entered to win a $25 gift card somewhere? Probably Blockbuster because it no longer exists. I get those in my email constantly of, “Yeah, give half an hour of your time in return for some paltry chance to win something.”No, I have a job to do. And I worry if at that level of that approach, who are you actually getting that’s going to sit down and fill this thing out? That said, the State of DevOps Reports have been for a long time, sort of the gold standard in this space and I would encourage people listening to this to absolutely take the time to fill that out. cloud.google.com/devops.I’m looking forward to seeing what comes out of it. And I love it because of the casual shade you can use to throw at other companies, too. Like, “Are you an elite team?” With the implicit baked-in sentiment being, no, you’re not, but I want to hear you say it.Nathen: Yeah, one of the things that really sets DORA apart, also, I think, is just the—well, two of the things I guess I would say. One is the length of time that the research program has been running. It’s going on seven years now that this research program has been running, and so given that, you have tens of thousands of IT professionals that have taken the survey and provided insights into sort of what’s the state of our industry today, and where are we heading, but it’s also an academically rigorous survey. The survey and the research itself has always and continues to be completely platform and program agnostic. This is not a survey about Google Cloud.This is not a survey where we’re trying to help understand exactly what products on Google Cloud should you use in order to be an elite performer. No. That’s not what this is about. It is about, truly, capabilities that your team needs in order to improve their software delivery and operations performance. And I think that’s really, really important.Dr. Nicole Forsgren who founded DORA, she didn’t come up with all of these ideas: “Hey, I think that you get better by doing this.” No. Instead, she researched all of these ideas. She got this input from across organizations of all sizes, organizations in every industry, and that, I think, really sets it apart.And our ability to really stay committed to that academic rigor, and the platform-agnostic approach to capturing and investigating these capabilities, I think is so important to this research. And again, this is why you should participate in the survey because you truly are going to help us move the state of the art of our industry.Corey: No, historically, there’s been a challenge where the mantle of thought leadership in conjunction with Google have intersected because there’s a common trope—historical—and I think that it is no longer accurately true. It’s an easy cheap shot, but I don’t think it holds water like it once did. Where, “Oh, Googler. It’s another word for condescending.” And there is an element of “Oh, this is how DevOps should be; this is how we’re moving things forward.” How do you distance it from being Google says you should do it like this?Nathen: Yeah. This comes up a lot. And frankly, I get in conversations with customers asking, “How does Google do this? How does Google do that?” And my answer always is, “You know, I can tell you how Google does something, and that might be interesting, but the fact is, it’s not much more than that, much more than interesting. Because what really matters is how are you going to do this? How are you going to improve your outcomes, whether that’s you’re delivering faster, you’re delivering more reliable, you’re running more reliable services? You’re the experts. As I mentioned earlier, you’re the experts in your teams, in your technology, and your customers. So, I’m here to learn right along with you. How are you going to do this? How are you going to improve?” Knowing how Google does it, eh, it’s interesting, but it’s not the path that you will follow.Corey: I think that’s one of those statements that can’t ever be outright stated on a marketing website, somewhere; it’s one of those shifts that you have to live. And I think that Google’s done a pretty decent job of that. The condescending Googler jokes are dated at this point, and it’s not because there was ever an ad campaign about, we’re not condescending anymore. It was a very subtle shift in the way that Google spoke to its customers, spoke about themselves. I no longer feel the need to stand up in a blinding white rage in the Q&A portion of conference talks given by Google employees.A lot has changed, and it’s not one thing that I can point to, it’s a bunch of different things that all add up to dramatically shifted credibility models. Realistically, I feel like that is a microcosm of a DevOps transformation. It’s not a tool; it’s not a single person being hired; it’s not, we’re taking an agile class for three days for all of engineering, and now things will be better. It’s a whole bunch of sustained work with a whole bunch of thought, and effort put into making it an actual transformation, which is such a toxically overloaded term, I dare not use it.Nathen: Indeed. And there’s no maturity model that shows, are you there yet? And it is something that you don’t flip on or flip off like a switch, right? It doesn’t happen overnight. It takes iteration and iterative change across the entire organization.And just like every change that you have across an organization, there are places where it’s going better than other places. And how do you learn from that? I think that’s really, really important. And to recognize and to bring some of that humility to the table is so important.Corey: So, what’s interesting about folks that I talk to on this show—well, there are many interesting things, but one of the interesting things is, is that they have a higher rate than the general population of having at one point in their careers, written a book of some form, and you are, of course, no exception. You and Emily Freeman co-authored recently, a book entitled 97 Things every Cloud Engineer Should Know. And it’s interesting because it only has one nine in the title. Okay, that is at least an attempt at being available. I know it’s available wherever most books are sold. Tell me more.Nathen: Yeah, so first, let’s start with the 97. Why 97? Corey, I don’t know if this or not, but 100% is the wrong reliability target for just about everything. So, 97. That feels achievable.Corey: It also feels like three people said they would do it and then backed out at the last minute, but that’s my cynicism speaking.Nathen: Well, for better or worse, O’Reilly. Has a whole 97 Things series and this is part of it. So, it is, in fact, 97 things. The other thing that I think is really important about the book: you mentioned that Emily and I wrote it, and the beauty is, for a long time, I’ve wanted to have written a book, and I have never wanted to be writing a book.Corey: That is what every author has ever said. It’s, no one wants to write a book; they want to have written one. And then you get a couple of beers into people and ask them, “So, I’m debating writing a book. Should I?” The response is, “No. Absolutely not. No.” And at some point, when you calmed them down again, and they stop screaming, they tell you the horrifying stories, and you realize, “Oh, wow, I really never want to write a book.”Nathen: [laugh]. Yes. Well, the beauty of 97 Things and this book in particular, or the whole series, really, is its subtitle is Collective Wisdom from the Experts. So, in fact, we had over 80 different contributors sharing things that other cloud engineers should know. And I think this is also really, really important because having 80-plus contributors to this book gave us, not 97 things that Emily and Nathen think every cloud engineer should know, but instead, a wide variety of experience levels, a wide variety of perspectives, and so I think that is the thing that makes the book really powerful.It also means that those 80-some folks that contributed to the book, had to write a very short article. So, of course, with 80 authors and 97 Things, the book is not—it doesn’t weigh 27 pounds, right? It’s less than 300 pages long, where you get these 97 tidbits. But really, the hope and the intent behind the book is to give you an idea about what should you explore deeper and, just as importantly, who are some people that you can, maybe, reach out to and talk to about a particular topic, a particular thing that a cloud engineer should know. Here are 80 people that are here, helping you and really cheering you on as you take this journey into cloud engineering.Corey: I think there’s something to be said from having the stories for this is what we do, this is how we do it. But the lessons learned stories, those are the great ones, and it’s harder to get people on stage to talk about that without turning into, “And that’s how we snagged victory from the jaws of defeat.” No one ever gets on stage and says and that’s why the entire project was a boondoggle and four years later, we’re still struggling to recover. Especially, you know, publicly traded companies tend not to say those things. But it’s true.You wind up with people getting on stage and talking instead about these high-level amazing things that they’ve done in the project went flawlessly, and you turn to the person next to you and say, “Yeah, I wish I could work in a place like that.” And they say, “Yeah, me too.” And you check, and they work at the same place as the presenter. Because it’s conference-ware; it’s never a real story. I’m hoping that these stories go a bit more in-depth into the nitty-gritty of what worked, what didn’t work, and it’s not always ‘author as hero protagonist.’Nathen: Oh, you will definitely find that in this book. These are true stories. These are stories of pain, of heartache, of victory and success, and learnings along the way. Absolutely. And frankly, in the DevOps space, we do an okay job of talking openly about our failures.We often talk about things that we tried that went wrong, or epic failures in our systems, and then how we recovered from them. And yes, oftentimes, those stories have a great sort of storybook ending to them, but there’s a lot of truth in a lot of those stories as well because we all know that no organization is uniformly good at everything. That may be the stories that they want to share most, but, you know, there’s some truth in those stories that hopefully we can find. And certainly, in this book, you will find the good, the bad, the ugly, the learnings, and all of the lessons there.Corey: Where can people find it if they want to buy it?Nathen: Oh, you know, you can find it wherever you buy books. There are of course, ebooks, O’Reilly’s website, you know with the—Corey: Wherever fine books are pirated. Yes, yes.Nathen: That’s a good place to go for books, yeah. For sure.Corey: And we will, of course, throw a link to the book in the [show notes 00:29:12]. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. If people want to learn more about the rest of what you’re up to, how you’re thinking about it, what wise wisdom you have for the rest of us, okay can they find you, other than the book?Nathen: Yeah, a great place to reach out to me is on Twitter. I am at @nathenharvey. But I should warn you, my father misspelled my name. So, it’s N-A-T-H-E-N-H-A-R-V-E-Y. So, you can find me on Twitter; reach out to me there.Corey: And we will of course include links to all of that in the [show notes 00:29:43] as well. Thank you so much for speaking to me today. I really appreciate it.Nathen: Thank you, Corey. It’s been a pleasure.Corey: Nathen Harvey, cloud developer advocate at Google. I’m Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you’ve hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with an angry comment telling me that I’m completely wrong. You can instantly get DevOps in your environment if I only purchase whatever crap it is your company sells.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Left Reckoning
16 - SUPERLEAGUE SUNK + Logistics of Organizing ft. Nando Vila, Charmaine Chua, Ted of Amazonians United

Left Reckoning

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 23, 2021 129:16


Support the show at patreon.com/leftreckoning to access the weekly postgame show and more bonus content.David and Matt talk about Biden's free school lunch extension and keeping our heads about "pushing him left" in an era of freer state intervention in the economy.Then, Charmaine Chua (@CharmaineSChua) and Ted from Amazonians United join us to discuss organizing against Amazon post-Bessemer andin an age of just-in-time production.Finally, Nando breaks down the colossal and welcome failure of the soccer "Superleague" and why the capitalists involved didnt have their s%%% together.Support Amazon workers here https://www.amazoniansunited.org/The Left Reckoning artwork was made by Grant ErtlThe music was composed and performed by Christoph Bruhn

RT
America's Lawyer. Amazonians united: Workers fight on

RT

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 15, 2021 26:29


Former Obama officials fight against minimum wage hikes. The Amazonians United co-founder shares an insider perspective on the fight for workers’ rights. J&J pledges almost $4 billion to settle lawsuits over its cancer-causing baby powder.

The Buy Box Experts Podcast
How to Identify and Resolve Brand Abuse on Amazon

The Buy Box Experts Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 13, 2021 33:14


Chris McCabe is the Founder and CEO of ecommerceChris, a firm that specializes in helping Amazon sellers reinstate their accounts and save their businesses. Chris and his team are all former Amazonians with long histories of helping people on the marketplace. At ecommerceChris, they teach sellers how to think like Amazon, protect their accounts, and appeal listing restrictions and suspensions. Prior to founding ecommerceChris, Chris was an Investigation Specialist at Amazon for several years. He has appeared on many podcasts and YouTube channels and his work has been featured in The New York Times, Forbes, and The Wall Street Journal. In this episode… Due to fierce competition on the Amazon marketplace, some unscrupulous third-party sellers engage in bad practices to get their competitors suspended from the marketplace. Also known as brand abuse, these practices—such as black hat techniques, fake reviews, and listing abuse—can be detrimental to the success of your business. Because of this, it is critical that third-party sellers learn how to protect themselves from such attacks. According to Amazon consultant Chris McCabe, while sellers may be able to handle some brand abuse issues themselves, there may be cases when they need to bring the problem to Amazon, engage a lawyer, or reach out to a consultant. That's why he created his firm, ecommerceChris: to help Amazon sellers successfully protect and save their businesses. In this week's episode of the Buy Box Experts podcast, James Thomson interviews Chris McCabe, the Founder and CEO of ecommerceChris, about his strategies for identifying and handling brand abuse on Amazon. They discuss the types of brand abuse you should be aware of, how to effectively resolve issues on your own, and Chris' tips for preventing future attacks. Stay tuned.

Marthyalokam Malayalam Podcast
#102 Working Backwards | Book about Amazon

Marthyalokam Malayalam Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 4, 2021 28:40


This is my current read. A book by two former Amazonians who take us through the inside stories being part of interesting changes as the company grew to become such a valued company. Connect on Social Media: https://linktr.ee/vinodnarayan Web Page: https://malayalampodcast.com/ Follow on Telegram: https://t.me/pahayanmedia Courses you can Learn in Malayalam: https://www.pahayan.com/ Join Our Community of Active Learners: https://www.penpositive.com/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/pahayan/message

No Wifi On Kandor (NWK)
Zack Snyder's Justice League - Was it worth the hype? - NWK#30

No Wifi On Kandor (NWK)

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2021 109:38


*WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD* This week, the crew discuss the highly anticipated version of the Justice League movie that realizes Zack Snyder's original vision. Adam highlights the stark contrast between the individual scenes of both Whedon and Snyder's versions, Blair reveres the depiction of the Amazonians, Greg Melts down over Martian Manhunter's surprise appearance, and Jay is surprisingly O.K. with Superman's lack of increased screen time.

Story Soil - Worldbuilding Science Fiction and Fantasy
Agroforestry & the Ancient Cities of the Amazon - Discussion with Dr. Sarah Taber

Story Soil - Worldbuilding Science Fiction and Fantasy

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 10, 2021 45:56


Crop scientist Dr. Sarah Taber explains how ancient Amazonians terraformed their cities and utilized agroforestry, and what this form of land management looks like for authors who want to make unique farming systems for their worlds that aren't based on the familiar Eurocentric paradigm.

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy
West Coast Cookbook and Speakeasy - Metro Shrimp and Grits Thursdays 04 March 21

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2021 63:01


West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Specials, Metro Shrimp & Grits Thursdays!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, the House abruptly cancelled its Thursday session over concerns of MAGA insurgents' plans to take over the Capitol, again.Then, on the rest of the menu, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem's family got $600,000 in federal virus grant money meant for small businesses; Idaho lawmakers rejected a $6 million dollar federal grant for early childhood education because moms should stay at home; and, Oregon has moved to ban the display of nooses for the racist symbology it conveys.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where indigenous Amazonians sued retailer Casino in a French court over rainforest deforestation; and, Germany's domestic intelligence agency has put the extreme far-right Alternative for Germany party under observation for neo-Nazi sympathies.All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~“Everyone in this good city enjoys the full right to pursue his own inclinations in all reasonable and, unreasonable ways.” -- The Daily Picayune, New Orleans, March 5, 1851~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/3/4/2019250/-West-Coast-Cookbook-amp-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-Metro-Shrimp-amp-Grits-Thursdays

The Buy Box Experts Podcast
Best Practices for FBA Private Label Brands Looking to Sell

The Buy Box Experts Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2021 35:56


Alex Kopco is the Co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Forum Brands, a CPG operating company that buys Amazon FBA businesses and grows them into world-class consumer brands.  Prior to founding Forum Brands, Alex worked in vendor and product roles at Amazon for over five years. During this time, he co-founded Connect@Amazon, an internal organization of global employees designed to connect Amazonians through professional networking and social opportunities. In this episode… What should FBA private label brands do to prepare their businesses for sale? According to Alex Kopco, if a business founder wants to achieve a smoother sale, they should be as open as possible with potential buyers. When vetting businesses to buy, he looks for sellers who allow him to get under the hood of a brand to see what he's working with. In order to move the selling process along, Alex recommends that sellers prepare all business reports, financial records, and information necessary to close the deal. They should also be proactive and open about notifying the buyer about potential issues that may arise in the course of the purchase—such as pending trademarks, a lack of stock, and any other issues that could affect business operations. This way, both the seller and the buyer can be confident in the sale. Alex Kopco, the Co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Forum Brands, joins James Thomson in this episode of the Buy Box Experts podcast to talk about the best practices for FBA private label brands looking to sell their businesses. Alex discusses the importance of both parties being open and transparent during the selling process, why he uses brokers as a primary source of deals, and how his firm differentiates itself from other FBA investors on the market. Stay tuned.

Seller Sessions
Amazon Aggregators Roundtable

Seller Sessions

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2021 55:59


On today's show we cover the landscape of aggregators, what they do and how you can tell the difference in what they offer. More and more sellers are being contacted each day with offers and requests to look under the hood to value your business. Across the industry dozens of Amazon businesses are being bought up on a monthly basis. Our guests today are some of the key players in the space... John Hefter Thrasio is the fastest growing acquirer of Amazon FBA businesses. They are becoming one of the largest and most profitable consumer product companies in the Amazon ecosystem. They are backed by a group of serious investors and as such can pay cash for all acquisitions and will support you throughout the entire process, if you are not a match Thrasio they either offer you advice regarding the current market and provide you with a clearer understanding or alternatively introduce you to one of their broker partners. Jeremy Bell Elevate Brands (recently rebranded from Recom Brands) buys, launches and operates consumer-leading Amazon brands and elevates them to their full potential. The Elevate difference is that we are Amazon experts. We started in 2016 as sellers, just like you, and understand the challenges and complexities in operating an Amazon FBA business at scale. We are now one of leading acquirers of Amazon FBA businesses, with a world class deal team who close transactions in less than 30 days in a hands-on, professional manner. Ollie Horbye Olsam Group - Founded by ex-Amazonians for Amazon Sellers. Between them, they have years of experience in eCommerce - They have worked internally at Amazon in the London HQ; supported on M&A transactions at some of the world's most well-known financial institutions (Rothschild, Deloitte, Alvarez & Marsal)​. They are backed by some of Europe's leading investors, with $500M under management and 40 IPOs.

The Story of a Brand
Lensabl - One Stop Shop for All Things Optical

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2021 31:30


****This episode was brought to you by ATTN Agency and Forum Brands.   In response to the recent pandemic, tons of different markets have been making the jump to direct-to-consumer shopping. Whether it’s ordering food, buying take-home tests to check your health, or even getting your prescription renewed, anything could be found at the tip of your fingers and in the comfort of your own home. In the second part of this Feature, we sit back down with Andrew Bilinsky, co-founder and CEO of Lensabl. Through Lensabl, not only can you get your prescription renewed, but every customer could access quality optical care without leaving home. After trial and error, Andrew and his team perfected the first version of Lensabl, starting with lens replacement in 2017. Lens replacement allowed customers to replace the lens in their glasses without ever having to replace the frame. Now today, Lensabl has added tons of new services. Listen today as Ramon Vela and Andrew discuss how Lensabl is striving to be your one-stop-shop for all things optical. In part 1, Andrew discusses: Working with updated tech such as Shopify; Creating the digital transformation for optical care; Using timing to your advantage; Expanding the market; Changing the traditional eye experience to bring accessible and affordable care; Where to find Lensabl; and much more. For more on Lensabl, visit: https://www.lensabl.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Lensabl - Vision Care Made Easy

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2021 35:33


****This episode was brought to you by ATTN Agency and Forum Brands. In the first part of this Feature, we sit down with Andrew Bilinsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Lensabl. An easy and affordable way to get new lenses for your frames and much more. Andrew walks us through taking this idea to the next level. As Andrew mentions in the show, Lensabl is about taking “an experience in an optometrist’s office or at a retail store that sells glasses” and turn it almost completely digital. With their app, customers can renew their prescription, order a new lens, and scan their glasses for their prescription if you’ve lost your old one. Especially after recent events, Andrew and his team do their best to bring you the optical experience. Tune in today to hear Ramon Vela and Andrew discuss how Lensabl could be the right fit for you. In part 1, Andrew discusses His mentor experience; How entrepreneurial experience turned into the optical experience; Creating the first vision for Lensabl; Finding the right funding; Advice for others starting an apparel brand; Finding your place in social media space; and much more. For more on Lensabl, visit: https://www.lensabl.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
CAMSKNS - The Best Skins in the Photography Game

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 4, 2021 31:57


****This episode was brought to you by ATTN Agency and Forum Brands.   For any photographer looking to add some color to your camera while protecting it during those late-night shoots, CAMSKNS is at your rescue. Whether your poison's Nikon, Canon, or Sony, Colin provides a fun looking skin designed to look great and protect your camera from any scratches or dirt that may cause damage. In today’s episode, we sit back down with Colin Dougherty, Founder & CEO of CAMSKNS. Like all entrepreneurs, creating the brand wasn’t easy, but with his other photographer friends’ support, they made a product that works. Tune in to listen to Ramon Vela and Colin discuss CAMSKNS on The Story of a Brand. In part 1, Colin discusses Going full time with your side hustle; Working with manufacturers; Seeing your product in real life for the first time; Perfecting the packaging for your customer experience; Being Customer-centric; Running a DTC brand; and much more. For more on CAMSKNS, visit: https://www.camskns.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
CAMSKNS - From Freelance Photographer to Product Founder

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 3, 2021 26:41


****This episode was brought to you by ATTN Agency and Forum Brands.   We’re dedicating this one to all of our photographers, whether you’re professional, freelance, or doing it for the fun of it. In the first part of this Feature, we’re covering CAMSKNS, a brand dedicated to giving your camera as much personality as you do. We sit down with Colin Dougherty, CEO, and Founder of CAMSKNS, to talk about his journey. Starting as a freelancer, “you’re always looking for the next job” and “you’re always looking for the next gig,” Colin mentions. Although through his brand, “I saw it as an opportunity where I could potentially make something a lot larger than just myself.” Tune in today to meet Colin and how he became the founder of CAMSKNS. In part 1, Colin discusses CAMSKNS and what it is; Colin’s journey to creating CAMSKNS; Differentiating your product from others; Product testing with your friend group; Gaining the courage to make your product come to life; and much more. Join Ramon Vela and Colin as they discuss CAMSKNS on The Story of a Brand. For more on Camskns, visit: https://www.camskns.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Hiccapop - Why Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 28, 2021 39:58


In today’s episode, we sit back down with Davis Clute, Author and CEO & Co-Founder of Hiccapop, as we continue the discussion of his new book, “How to Start a Business (In 50 Pages).” Throughout the book, Davis gives insight from his own experiences and expertise to break down what it means to start a brand. From customer service to product development, Davis holds a lot of great advice, and one of the topics we’re focusing on today is growth. As Davis references an old military quote, “slow is smooth and smooth is fast,” he's sharing with us that growing slow, deliberate, and profitable is better than growing quickly and at "all cost" while sacrificing profitability. Instead of growing slow & profitable, it often helps you to grow faster. Listen in as we talk about taking the long term approach to growing a successful brand with Davis Clute. In part 1, Davis discusses The pros and cons of having a co-founder; Is hard work overrated; The importance of persistence; “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast”; Growing at a rate that works for your company; Advice for entrepreneurs; and much more. Join Ramon Vela and Davis as they discuss Hiccapop on The Story of a Brand. For more on Hiccapop, visit: https://www.hiccapop.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Hiccapop - How to Start a Product Business

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 27, 2021 35:24


On today’s episode of Story of a Brand, we’re sitting down with CEO and Co-Founder Davis Clute. With a couple of previous start-ups under his belt, Davis created the brand Hiccapop. Hiccapop is a brand solely dedicated to rethinking children’s products for the modern parent. With Hiccapop growing in success, Davis released his latest book, “How to Start a Business (In 50 Pages),” which provides insights to upcoming entrepreneurs. Insights including past experiences, how to expect and overcome failure, and ways to de-stress during your business’s growth. Please tune in to today’s episode as we go over the entrepreneurial insights of Davis Clute. In part 1, Davis discusses His Mentor experience, Focusing on customer service and product development, Going over the keys of success, Learning from failure, Growing a business in a stress-free environment, Getting your product out to the public. Join Ramon Vela and Davis as they discuss Hiccapop on The Story of a Brand. For more on Hiccapop, visit: https://www.hiccapop.com/ * OUR PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands. Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Levels - There's Power in Understanding your Health

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 21, 2021 36:04


In part 2 of this Feature, we sit back down with Josh Clemente, the Founder and President of Levels, to discuss the importance of understanding our health.    Becoming healthier is a broad subject with millions of different routes to take. Some routes may work, and others may not.  As Josh mentioned in the previous episode, this ties into a “closed-loop system.”    In a closed-loop system, we could try hundreds of combinations between turning vegetarian and working out 3 times a week or turning to a juice cleanse and working out once a week; maybe they work, maybe they won’t. The key is that it’s the lack of feedback that will always keep us guessing if what we’re doing is working for our own bodies, which is why Josh created Levels.    Levels could help provide you the feedback to understand your health truly.    In part 2, Josh discusses His inspiration for creating Levels; Working with health data; Combining the medical world with a DTC brand; Coping with the stress from the development stage to the first customer; The positive impact of Levels; Finding empowerment through understanding your physical health; and much more.   Join Ramon Vela and Josh as they discuss Levels on The Story of a Brand.   For more on Levels, visit: https://www.levelshealth.com/   *   OUR ENTIRE PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses.   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Levels - Metabolism is Life

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 20, 2021 34:15


For today’s episode of The Story of a Brand, we’re sitting down with Josh Clemente, Founder, and President of Levels.    When it comes to getting healthy, people’s first thoughts usually turn to exercise and eating better. Although as Josh noticed, it’s hard to exercise and eat better when each one of our bodies is entirely different. Different people do better with different diets, and exercise routines vary between every person.   In response to this, Josh and his team utilized existing medical technology to create Levels, a metabolic fitness program. With each meal or exercise, Levels gives you feedback on how it affects your body. With consistent live feedback, any customer could tweak their routine until it’s perfect for them. Tune in as we talk about the value of Levels.    In part 2, Josh discusses Josh’s support system; The hundred-foot overview of Levels; The technology behind Levels; Adjusting your diet and routine to your personal needs; Learning about the “closed-loop feedback system”; Where Josh got his start in medical tech; and much more.   Join Ramon Vela and Josh as they discuss Levels on The Story of a Brand.   For more on Levels, visit: https://www.levelshealth.com/   *   OUR ENTIRE PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses.   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

Nerd Tutorial Podcast
Ep 84: Wonder Woman Tutorial

Nerd Tutorial Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 16, 2021 121:26


Topic: Wonder Woman Tutorial   In route to discussing Wonder Woman 1984, we need to do a Tutorial on Wonder Woman herself.  And her creation is amazing!  I was surprised by it and so was Mom.  You have to listen just to find that part out.   Creator:   Created in 1941 by William Moulton Marston, pen name: Charles Moulton. Marston was a unique individual, a Harvard PhD psychologist who also helped created the lie detector.  He believed that Comics had ‘great educational potential’, and was hired by All-American Publications as an educational consultant.  The Publication would late merge with another company creating DC Comics.    He lived with his wife Elizabeth Marston and also Ms. Olive Byrne, of which they had a consenting polyamorous life together.  Marston’s research and stuff focused heavily on gender, with him at one point studying all Female communities, ie observing the rituals and behaviors of Sororities.  It led him to believe that women were the superior gender, but was only being held back from power due to the difficulties of giving birth and raising children, but also housework.  He eventually theorized that eventually both child rearing and housework would get easier, allowing women to get educated, gain power, and take their rightful spots as leaders of the world.   When he set out to make Wonder Woman, he did so consciously, deciding to create a female super hero in a male dominated landscape.  Marston would later write:   "Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.   Wonder Woman is also loosely based off Elizabeth and Olive, with Elizabeth inspiring her attitude, and Olive inspiring her appearance.  Apparently Wonder Woman’s bracelets was inspired because Olive liked to wear big bracelets.     Comic History: Since staring All Star Comic #8 in 1941, Wonder Woman has had her own on going Comic Book ever since then.  Marston would initially write for the series, with H.G. Peter doing the artwork until his death in 1947 at the age of 54.  Later writers would pick up the character and run with it.  Early stories focused on feminist agenda, and for the times, push a radical, progressive women’s agenda.   After Marston’s Death, new writers toned down some of the Wonder Woman elements from earlier comics.  This included the remove of more bondage related elements, toned down some of the radical feminist agenda, and eventually adding Hellenic and mythological elements and roots to the character.    By the late 1960s, Wonder Woman lost her powers, owning to stay in the world of man, and for a time, picked up martial arts and weapons combat, and gave up being a super hero for owning a boutique.  She participated in various story lines that focused more on espionage and mythology.  Eventually, due to the 1970s TV show, Wonder Woman was repowered into a super hero.  However, by 1985, Wonder Woman’s comic was losing popularity and the character was written out.    During the Crisis of infinite Earth, Wonder Woman was depicted as originating on Earth Two, a second Earth to the main DC Continuity.  As a result of the event that wiped out the Multiverse and all other Earths, Wonder Woman was to be written out.  However, at the end of the series, Wonder Woman was given a new origin story, as an ambassador from her home land of Themyscira.  This is how she would be portrayed in the modern age.   By the end of Flash Point event, the New 52 reimagines Wonder Woman again, this time also carrying her now iconic sword and shield in to battle.  The character was redesigned again in 2016, bring her more in line with her original creation.     Crisis Events DC has major cross over events subjected in to Crisis Events, typically with the intent of retconing, shaking up, or revamping the entire comic landscape.  This is often done to streamline continuities or characters, change up dynamics of the world and/or characters, or re-introduce new elements back in to the series.  The events offer huge crossovers events for various books, characters, and stories, with the finality of the decisions that get made due to it.  These Stories include:   Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985) This event resulted in the collapse of the Multiverse, the notion that there are various worlds with similar or mirror characters that live similar or mirror lives due to the nature of possibility.  As a result of losing the multiversity, several characters migrated to the main continuity, while other characters were killed off, like Super Girl.    Zero Hour, Crisis in Time! (1994) This event saw the original Green Lantern become a bad guy and attempt to recreate the universe in his own image.  The true purpose was to streamline the dates of events that happened, making it so that most character had been around for only 10 or so years, along with fixing the continuity issues plaguing various characters and their introduction from the previous Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline.   Infinite Crisis (2005) This Crossover saw the reintroduction of the Multiverse, and redid the timeline and events once more.  As a result of some character leaving to a pocket dimension in the First Crisis event, they see how dark the universe has gotten and decided they need to recreate Earth Two and Destroy Earth One.  Eventually though, the Multiverse gets recreated as a result.   Final Crisis (2008) The event sees a Super Man Villain, Dark Sied, taking over Earth using a formula designed to ensnare people to his will.  Because Earth is the cornerstone of the Multiverse, and controlling it give the power to control over Multiverses, Dark Sied was capable of controlling the entire Multiverse.  The comic in theory kills both Dark Sied and Batman, though both would return through weirdness.   Flash Point (2011) Flash Point sees the Flash use his super speed ability to go back in time and save his mother.  As a result of saving his mother, but at the cost of changing the entire universe, including depowering the Flash.  In the end, Flash is able to get his powers back, and restore the events that led to the correct universe.  However, while initially intended as a contained story, the events led to the ‘New 52’ Timeline.  New 52 was a company-wide relaunch of all their series, simplifying and revamping many characters and time lines.   Convergence (2015) Considered one of the worse Crisis Events, it saw a bad guy trying to battle the various DC cities against one another.  And this meant from any continuity, any property, and almost any franchise was on the table.  While everything eventually returned back to normal, and set in motion a removing continuity from DC Comics.  The DC You initiative wanted to focus more on stories than continuity, however, this was widely hated by fans, and quietly swept under the rug.   Dark Nights Metal (2017) The most recent Crisis Event depicts a bad guy, named Barbados, who seeks to leave a dark Multiverse dimension via Batman.  Upon escaping, he brings with him various other murderous and evil Batmans, led by the Batman who laughs and kicks the butts out of the regular Multiverse characters. Eventually the Multiverse heroes beat the Dark Multiverse.  This series is the first to not have any major shake-ups in the universe necessarily.     Character History: Depending on which timeline, revamp, or relaunch, the character’s history has been changed countless times to suit the needs of the writers and runners of the comic books.   The most common origin stories for Diana include: She was born of clay and brought to life as a golem by the gods She was a blessing from the gods She is the daughter of Zeus, and thus a demi-god.   All stories start with Diana being raised on Paradise Island, later renamed Themyscira, and being trained by the Amazons of the island.  She meets with Captain Steve Trevor and is brought to the world of man, either to protect it, or to act as an Emissary for Themyscira.   Diana Prince is her alias, otherwise she is Diana of Themyscira, when not known as Wonder Woman.  She is depicted as being among the best woman in the world.  Strong and powerful, but delicate and kind, smart and heroic, embodying all the greatest qualities of womanhood.    Beyond that, she is considered a part of the Holy Trinity of DC Comics, which include Superman, Batman, and herself.  She is also the first of the Three to join the Justice League, later retconed as her, Superman, and Batman creating the league together.   Her Powers include: Super Strength Super Durability Super Speed Super Agility Healing Factor Flight (Post Crisis on infinite Earths)   Beyond her Super powers she is a: Master Tactician Master Combatant Multi-Lingual Expert Pilot Possessing Great Wisdom   Equipment: Bracelets of Submission – Crafted from Zeus’s legendary Aegis Shield, Wonder Woman’s iconic bracelets act as Bracers on her arms, allowing her to deflect bullets and projectiles,including energy blasts. Lasso of Truth – a powerful rope that is capable of retraining the universes strongest beings, including Superman.  The lasso also compels people to be truthful.  The lasso has also shown healing and anti-magic properties. Golden Tiara – Wonder Woman’s headband has doubled as a boomerang on occasions, depicted as being super strong and sharp. Invisible Jet – Wonder Woman’s original mode of transportation prior to her ability to fly.  It is meant to be based on a Pegasus, but has changed from a propeller plane to a jet plane over time and publications. Sword and Shield – Since the New 52 continuity, Wonder Woman has also carried a Sword and Shield, reminiscent of gladiators in Roman times.  They’re depicted as being of similar metal to her Tiara and costume, having been crafted by the Amazonians.   Costume: Depending on the depiction, Wonder Woman’s costume has been relatively consistent over time, mirroring similar elements over the time.  Most notable changes over time have included the bottom portion going from a skirt with stars to high-cut briefs with stars, her red, strapless top depicting an eagle, later her Wonder Woman logo over the cups of the breasts.  In 2010, they decided to change her look up and gave her pants and a leather jacket.  The original look would alter return a year later in 2011, and by 2016, her look was resigned to look more gladiatorial, with an over the shoulder strap for her sword and shield, along with her a gladiatorial skirt in the form of leather strips, not unlike Xena, Warrior Princess.  This was also the version used for the Live Action movies.     Villains: Wonder Woman’s Rogue Gallery consists of a lot of Greek Gods and Mythology creatures, though has some unique villains too.  Though they all share a common element that they are all intelligent and/or doctors in some field.   Giganta – a woman who is capable of changing her shape and size, while still retaining her intelligence.   Cheetah – a woman, occasionally a man, who dresses like a Cheetah to fight Wonder Woman.  Modern takes on Cheetah have her Cheetah like characteristics and powers gifted by the plant god Urzkartaga.   Doctor Psycho – can control minds.  He’s notable for being created partly based off Marston’s college professors who opposed women’s suffrage and feminism.   Doctor Poison – a woman who uses poison to control minds, along with other effects.   Ares – The God of War, who is in direct opposition to Wonder Woman, who strives for peace around the world.   The First Born – Daughter of Hera and Zeus, he is destined to sit on Zeus’s throne.  He fights with Wonder Woman who aims to stop him.   Circe – A Sorceress with various god like powers, including mind control, creating energy blasts, teleportation, and transforming objects. She’s all known for her siren’s call that lures men to their death.   Medusa – the Gorgon with snake like hair and can turn people in to stone.   In Media: Beyond the original Comic Books, Wonder Woman has been a pop Icon for the last 80 years.  As a result, she’s been depicted in various media outside of her comic origin.   It was the famous 1975 Wonder Woman Tv Show which reintroduced Wonder Woman’s powers in the comics.  Protrayed by Lynda Carter.   Wonder Woman has been a mainstay of various animated DC properties.  Most Notably in the Super Friends Cartoons from the 70s and 80s and the DC Animated Universe cartoons that aired throughout the late 90s and early 2000s.  She’s also been a part of major Justice League Direct to Video features.    In Film, She is portrayed by Gal Gadot in Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice, Wonder Woman, and Wonder Woman 1984.

The Story of a Brand
Sene - Clothes that Fit Perfectly

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 14, 2021 34:49


In part 2 of our Feature, we continue the conversation with Ray Li about his brand Sene. Sene is a custom clothing company that’s innovating the shopping experience.    No longer does clothing have to be size-centric; instead, it is worn with ease as your attire is customized to fit you.    Sene is about creating a thoughtful experience for each consumer to create a personal atmosphere that fast fashion doesn’t always seem to capture.    It all starts with a 60 second Smart Fit quiz to upload your measurements and any sizing preferences. After that, it’s sewn and shipped right to your doorstep.    For those who are eager to try out Sene but are unsure about any fitting mishaps, there is a 60-day guarantee for all orders.  Alterations are made within those 60 days until you find your perfect fit.    Listen in as Ramon Vela and Ray LI discuss the future of custom clothing on The Story of a Brand.   In part 2, Ray discusses the following: The importance of believing in your vision; Breaking the traditional suiting market; Going into the trial and error of growing the company; Changing conventional approaches to starting a modern clothing brand; Walking through the Sene customer experience; The Sene VIP program; Advice for future entrepreneurs; and much more.     For more on Sene, visit:  https://senestudio.com/   *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Sene -  This Brand is Mainstreaming Custom Clothing

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 14, 2021 37:03


Along with co-founder Mark Zheng, Ray Li is out to “mainstream custom clothing” with their brand Sene.    Sene stems from Ray’s passion for eliminating the misguided notion of the “ideal body” and creating clothes that fit anybody.    It produces an accessible alternative for those who strive to get custom-fitted suits or jeans at a reasonable price.    As Ray mentions in the episode, “our mission is to empower people of all shapes and sizes to feel their best.”    Although the idea seems full proof, increasing its growth was a challenge, as Ray recalls.    Listen to today's episode of The  Story of a Brand as Ramon Vela interviews Ray, and they discuss overcoming those challenges, especially as a new company, to break old traditions.    In part 1, Ray discusses the following: Ray’s mentor experience, Sene and what it is; Expressing the brand mission; Creating accessible custom clothing; Breaking boundaries in mainstream fashion; The first attempt in creating Sene; Adapting the brand to COVID complications; and much more.   For more on Sene, visit:  https://senestudio.com/   *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses.   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Season Three -  The Most Comfortable Boot You'll Ever Own

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 14, 2021 37:14


In part 2 of this Feature, we sit back down with co-founders, Jared Ray Johnson and Adam Klein to discuss their journey in creating Season Three.   Season Three was created to produce the modern boot, The Ansel.   On top of redesigning the boot, the two have created a shoe to encourage exploration and purpose. Like Adam states, “I think pushing yourself and pushing … youth culture, really anything, to explore, to figure out what they are really talented at is the only way to kind of live.”   No matter if you’re a Steve Jobs type of genius or completely art-driven, anything is possible with that right kind of push and talent. That’s what we here at The Story of a Brand are about.   We hope to celebrate all brands of all backgrounds to share their stories and inspire others to start their journey. Thanks to all of you, thanks to Season Three's founders, especially those listening for the first time.   In part 2, Jared and Adam discuss Finding your strengths and weaknesses; Working towards your passion; Creating the concept for The Ansel; Dealing with Imposter syndrome; Delving into the materials and design; Adapting from prototypes; The Benjamin Edgar collaboration; The future of the brand; and much more.   Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Jared and Adam for The Story of a Brand, and listen to them share the inside story.   For more on Season Three, visit: https://seasonthree.com/   *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses.   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Season Three - A Brand Built on Curiosity

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 13, 2021 37:14


“Boots have always been rooted in heritage,” as Jared mentions. There are hiking boots, construction boots, steel toe, etc.    Although Jared and Adam noticed, there isn’t a modern boot for those merely walking around the city.    In today’s episode, we’re sitting down with Co-Founders, Jared Ray Johnson and Adam Klein to talk about what it takes to create a modern boot with their brand Season Three.    The two MIT students took everything they hated about the average boot to create everything they love about their boot, The Ansel. The Ansel, any person, could have effective, durable footwear that is sleek enough to be worn from the streets to “the museum.”    Listen in as we talk about renovating the purpose of our boots.    In part 2, Jared and Adam discuss Their mentor experience; The hundred-foot overview of Season Three; Building an “outdoor lifestyle brand”; Jared and Ray’s journey at MIT; Choosing “the boot” category as a jump into the shoe market; Creating the modern boot for the everyday wear; and much more.   Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Jared and Adam for The Story of a Brand, and listen to them share the inside story.   For more on Season Three, visit: https://seasonthree.com/   *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency.    ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.   *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.   Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?    If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.    Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a 30-minute call.

The Story of a Brand
Vitafive - Great Tasting, Eco-Friendly Gummy Vitamins

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 8, 2021 33:35


In this second part of this Feature, we interview Nik Hall, Co-Founder of vitafive. At vitafive, Nik is creating easy to take vitamins in gummy form.    These vitamins are not easy to take, but they’re also fun to take with colorful, eco-friendly packaging. They’re also good for any parent looking for a fun solution for their kids to take their vitamins.    Whether you're looking for a gummy to enhance your overall health or for detox, vitafive offers different varieties that are all gluten-free and vegetarian friendly. Listen in as Nik talks to us about the inner workings of vitafive.   In Part 2, Nik discusses Being grateful for your support system; Keeping to your vision; Marketing the product itself; Creating an eco-friendly product; The impact of taking a vitamin a day, and much more.   Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Nik for The Story of a Brand, and listen to her share the inside story.   For more on vitafive, visit: https://vitafive.com/     *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency.   ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.     *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.    Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?   If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.   Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses.   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a call.

The Story of a Brand
Vitafive - The Trial and Error of Building a Vitamin Brand

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 8, 2021 29:35


In this first part of this Feature, we interview Nik Hall, Co-Founder of vitafive. Vitafive provides high-quality gummy vitamins in eco-friendly packs that are good for health.   Whether you’re a seasoned entrepreneur or a business major in your third year of college, we talk about the importance of working through failure.  Failure helps to shape the future of your company while building the foundation for you as an entrepreneur to grow.    As Nik references it, failure and success are two very different feelings that are crucial to building a business similar to flying on a plane.    The first year of a start-up brings a lot of turbulence and paranoia of how far you’re going to fall. Although the moment you land on the ground, your “reaction is completely different.” Listen in as we go step by step about how we work through failure.    In Part 1, Nik discusses Nik’s own experience with his college mentor; Creating idea after idea after idea; Working through obstacles; The trial and error of finding a good marketing routine; Nik’s business advice; The ease of Shopify; and much more.   Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Nik for The Story of a Brand, and listen to her share the inside story.   For more on vitafive, visit: https://vitafive.com/     *   This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services.   If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency.   I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results.   Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.     *   This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.    Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA?   If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands.   Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses   If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a call.

The Story of a Brand
Garrett Wade - Finding a Craft You Truly Love

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 6, 2021 36:31


In this second part of this Feature, we sit back down with Craig Winer, Co-Owner & Senior VP of Garrett Wade, to hear the stories about what makes Garrett Wade a trusted name.    Craig and his team at Garrett Wade truly love the work that they do, from finding vintage kitchen knives in France to foraging through Sweden. The passion for providing unique and quality tools is only one of the keys that have made the brand a success.   As the pandemic has evolved throughout the past year, hobbies have once again caught on as ways to learn, distract from news, and or distress. Not only does Garrett Wade create tools for experienced craft workers, but also first-time learners that are eager to find their own passion.    As Craig mentions, it’s about “breaking those barriers” that keep us from continuing our craft. Whether it's a challenging hobby or simply a lack of time, Garrett Wade is about finding a craft you truly love and working through those obstacles. In Part 2, Craig discusses Celebrating the craftsmen that contribute to Garrett Wade’s success; Picking for products and sourcing; Kitchen knives in France; Sharing stories and marketing the brand; The future of Garrett Wade; Being passionate about your craft; COVID Impacts on home life; and much more. Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Craig for The Story of a Brand, and listen to her share the inside story. For more on Garrett Wade, visit: https://www.garrettwade.com/ * This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels.     *     This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.    Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses. If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a call.

The Story of a Brand
Garrett Wade - Where Good Tools Come First

The Story of a Brand

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 6, 2021 34:56


In this first part of this Feature, we sit down with Craig Winer, Co-Owner & Senior VP of Garrett Wade, to discuss Garrett Wade’s lasting success. Since the 1970s, Garrett Wade has offered a variety of selections for any demographic to enjoy true craftsmanship. The company was started by Garrettson Wade Chinn with the original goal of celebrating craftsmen by offering a catalog with hard to find, quality tools. Through the decades, that goal has expanded from selling hard to find tools for offering vintage kitchenware, quality gardening tools, and even collectible toys.  As Craig mentions in the episode, it’s more than purchasing a tool to complete your next project. It’s a well-crafted tool that could be passed down for generations.   In Part 1, Craig discusses Craig Winer and his mentor; The 100 ft overview of Garrett Wade; The importance of craftsmanship; Putting your own passions into creating successful products; COVID Impacts on the brand; Adapting throughout the decades; The foundation of Garrett Wade; And much more. Join us while Ramon Vela interviews Craig for The Story of a Brand, and listen to her share the inside story. For more on Garrett Wade, visit: https://www.garrettwade.com/ * This episode and our entire podcast are brought to you by ATTN Agency. ATTN Agency is a full-funnel growth and performance digital marketing agency with proven strategies to scale and optimize direct to consumer brands through tactical media buying, data-driven analysis, and unrivaled creative services. If you are looking back on this year wondering what went wrong or what could have gone better, or if you're starting to put together your game plan for 2021, I have one piece of advice: you need to talk to ATTN Agency. I’ve interviewed several of their clients, and I can say that they are the best in the business. ATTN represents some of the fastest-growing direct to consumer brands, delivering month over month results. Go to https://www.attnagency.com/storyofabrand/ for a comprehensive, no-obligation, 14 point audit of your social, search, shopping, email, and SMS channels. * This episode is also brought to you by Forum Brands.  Have you built an online brand that consumers love? Do you sell in consumer categories that are essential to everyday life? Do the majority of your sales go through Amazon FBA? If this sounds like you, you should get to know Forum Brands. Forum is a team of expert investors, operators, and many ex-Amazonians, who provide entrepreneurs and owners with the most efficient and lucrative way to sell their e-commerce businesses If you’re interested in exploring a sale and cashing out years of your profits in one day, visit us at https://www.forumbrands.com/ to schedule a call.

Stadtfilter Podcasts
Acid Amazonians - Tastenwoche Live-Session (23.11.20)

Stadtfilter Podcasts

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 8, 2020 42:02


Acid Amazonians live an der Tastenwastenwoche 2020

Home Base Nation
Bias For Action - Featuring Amazonian Leaders, Navy Veteran Abby Malchow and Marine Veteran Beau Higgins

Home Base Nation

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 8, 2020 38:56


Home Base is excited to announce the launch of our new Home Base online company store. Home Base swag for you and yours and All proceeds to benefit the care provided to our Veterans and their families. Show your support by visiting www.store.homebase.org to order your branded apparel and accessories.Our two special guests are Marine Corps Veteran Colonel Beau Higgins, and Navy Veteran Chief Petty Officer Abby Malchow, who both work at a company I think you’ve probably heard of…. Amazon.Beau is Senior Manager of Military Talent Acquisition and a Marine Veteran of 25 years. Abby is Senior program manager in Amazon's military affairs, a combat veteran, and a 2018 Bush Stand-to Presidential Leadership Scholar."We actively seek leaders who can invent, think big, have a bias for action and deliver results on behalf of our customers. These principles look very familiar to men and women who have served our country in the armed forces, and we find that their experience leading people is invaluable in our fast-paced work environment."  - CEO of Amazon, Jeff BezosBoth Beau and Abby would agree with Jeff Bezos, with the mantra he preaches: Think big, deliver results and at all times, have a bias for action. These are some of the key 14 leadership principles that have driven the success for Amazon, but they are also the same principles engrained in those that join our military. So it did not surprise me that Abby and Beau have taken on these roles within this giant of a company, just like they did on deployment.We dedicate this episode to all of the the Amazon Warriors, or the military Amazonians who have served, or continue to serve…Thank you to our guests today, Colonel Beau Higgins and Chief Petty Officer Abby Malchow for your service and for everything you do for veterans and military families everyday.Amazon Military Video embedded in this episode  with many thanks for Amazon team. To learn more and connect with us at Home Base:www.homebase.org/homebasenationTwitter,Facebook,Instagram,LinkedInHome Base Nation Team: Steve Monaco, Marine Veteran Brendan McCaffrey, Maureen Roderick, Charlotte Luckey, Karianne Kraus, Dan Berg, DeeDee Kearney, Natalie BonelliProducer and Host: Dr. Ron HirschbergMusic: Darden Smith Production consultation: Chuck Clough - Above The  Basement Home Base Media Lab Chairman: Peter SmythHome Base Nation is the official podcast of Home Base Program for Veterans and Military Families, a partnership of the Massachusetts General Hospital and the Red Sox Foundation.The views expressed by guests to the Home Base Nation podcast are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by guests are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the view of the Massachusetts General Hospital, Home Base, the Red Sox Foundation or any of its officials.

TV Podcast Industries
Wonder Woman Movie Review

TV Podcast Industries

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 1, 2020 123:22


With the sequel just around the corner we finally discuss Diana Prince's first major cinematic solo outing in our Wonder Woman Movie Review. A huge success when it was first released and considered by many to be one of the best comic book movies made. Synopsis for our Wonder Woman Movie Review Spoiler filled Podcast Directed by - Patty Jenkins Screenplay by - Allan Heinberg Story by - Zack Snyder & Allan Heinberg and Jason Fuchs Wonder Woman created by William Moulton Marston and Harry G. Peter On the Island of Themyscira, shrouded from the world around them, Diana, daughter to Hippolyta, leads a disciplined but peaceful and safe life on the island unaware of her true destiny and power. However, this world turns upside down, when Steve Trevor, an intrepid American pilot working for British Intelligence accidentally crashes on the island. But with Steve comes German forces intent on recovering a note book linked to a new chemical weapon being developed by Dr. Maru (aka Doctor Poison) and General Ludendorff, for deployment on the Western Front. After fighting off the German army at a terrible cost to the Amazonians and Diana with  the death of her fearsome Aunt, Antiope, the terrible reality of a devastating great war that threatens to consume humankind is laid bare by Steve. With the possibility of armistice and peace threatened by Maru’s new weapon and ancient powers at play in the world Steve and Diana team up to embark on a perilous mission to secure peace and stop their all-powerful adversaries General Ludendorff and the shadowy figure of Ares, the merciless God of War! Cast of Wonder Woman Diana Prince/Wonder Woman - Gal GadotSteve Trevor - Chris PineHippolyta - Connie NielsenAntiope - Robin WrightLudendorff - Danny HustonSir Patrick - David ThewlisDr. Maru - Elena AnayaEtta Candy - Lucy DavisSameer - Saïd TaghmaouiCharlie - Ewen BremnerThe Chief - Eugene Brave Rock Subscribe to TV Podcast Industries If you want to keep up with us and all of our podcasts please subscribe to the podcast over at https://tvpodcastindustries.com where we will continue to podcast about multiple TV shows we hope you'll love. Next Time on TV Podcast Industries That's it for our Wonder Woman Movie Review. Wonder Woman 1984 comes out on the 16th of December where cinemas are open outside of the US. It will also be released in North America cinemas and on HBO Max on December 25th 2020. From December 13th we're staying in the DC Universe of London as we return to the Bat-Verse with the second season of Bruno Heller and Danny Cannon's "Pennyworth". Watch the later trailer below for Pennyworth Season 2: https://youtu.be/3q5aziwvFVM Then in January we'll be discussing WandaVision the first Marvel show from Disney Plus. Watch the later trailer for Wandavision below: https://youtu.be/sj9J2ecsSpo We'll also be discussing all of the shows we covered in 2020 in our traditional year end wrap up. Email us to feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com if you have any thoughts on any of the shows we've covered this year. Derek, Chris and John TV Podcast Industries

TV Podcast Industries
Wonder Woman Movie Review by TV Podcast Industries

TV Podcast Industries

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 1, 2020 123:22


With the sequel just around the corner we finally discuss Diana Prince's first major cinematic solo outing in our Wonder Woman Movie Review. A huge success when it was first released and considered by many to be one of the best comic book movies made. Synopsis for our Wonder Woman Movie Review Spoiler filled Podcast Directed by - Patty Jenkins Screenplay by - Allan Heinberg Story by - Zack Snyder & Allan Heinberg and Jason Fuchs Wonder Woman created by William Moulton Marston and Harry G. Peter On the Island of Themyscira, shrouded from the world around them, Diana, daughter to Hippolyta, leads a disciplined but peaceful and safe life on the island unaware of her true destiny and power. However, this world turns upside down, when Steve Trevor, an intrepid American pilot working for British Intelligence accidentally crashes on the island. But with Steve comes German forces intent on recovering a note book linked to a new chemical weapon being developed by Dr. Maru (aka Doctor Poison) and General Ludendorff, for deployment on the Western Front. After fighting off the German army at a terrible cost to the Amazonians and Diana with  the death of her fearsome Aunt, Antiope, the terrible reality of a devastating great war that threatens to consume humankind is laid bare by Steve. With the possibility of armistice and peace threatened by Maru’s new weapon and ancient powers at play in the world Steve and Diana team up to embark on a perilous mission to secure peace and stop their all-powerful adversaries General Ludendorff and the shadowy figure of Ares, the merciless God of War! Cast of Wonder Woman Diana Prince/Wonder Woman - Gal GadotSteve Trevor - Chris PineHippolyta - Connie NielsenAntiope - Robin WrightLudendorff - Danny HustonSir Patrick - David ThewlisDr. Maru - Elena AnayaEtta Candy - Lucy DavisSameer - Saïd TaghmaouiCharlie - Ewen BremnerThe Chief - Eugene Brave Rock Subscribe to TV Podcast Industries If you want to keep up with us and all of our podcasts please subscribe to the podcast over at https://tvpodcastindustries.com where we will continue to podcast about multiple TV shows we hope you'll love. Next Time on TV Podcast Industries That's it for our Wonder Woman Movie Review. Wonder Woman 1984 comes out on the 16th of December where cinemas are open outside of the US. It will also be released in North America cinemas and on HBO Max on December 25th 2020. From December 13th we're staying in the DC Universe of London as we return to the Bat-Verse with the second season of Bruno Heller and Danny Cannon's "Pennyworth". Watch the later trailer below for Pennyworth Season 2: https://youtu.be/3q5aziwvFVM Then in January we'll be discussing WandaVision the first Marvel show from Disney Plus. Watch the later trailer for Wandavision below: https://youtu.be/sj9J2ecsSpo We'll also be discussing all of the shows we covered in 2020 in our traditional year end wrap up. Email us to feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com if you have any thoughts on any of the shows we've covered this year. Derek, Chris and John TV Podcast Industries

Stadtfilter Podcasts
Tastenwoche LIVE: Acid Amazonians im Interview

Stadtfilter Podcasts

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2020 12:36


Ein Konzert spielen heisst für das Zürcher Performance Trio Acid Amazonians: Bei a anfangen und keine Ahnung haben, wo's dann hingeht. Für die Zuhörenden heisst es: Gewohnheiten des Konzerthörens in Frage stellen; einem Prozess zuschauen, aber sich keinen Hit abholen. Für alle heisst es: Da sein. Wie beim bike surfin'. Fragen: Julia Toggenburger Foto: Marlon McNeill

Culture Is Everything
Wise Amazonians Fear Snakes

Culture Is Everything

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 1, 2020 26:03


Especially the two-legged variety.read://https_www.msn.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fmoney%2Fcompanies%2F4-democratic-senators-demand-jeff-bezos-respond-to-allegations-that-amazon-spies-on-staff-and-undermines-their-right-to-unionize%2Far-BB1a6u8q%3Focid%3Dmsedgntpread://https_www.msn.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fmoney%2Fcompanies%2Fan-amazon-worker-said-the-company-reinstated-a-dangerous-work-productivity-tool-during-prime-day-delivery-rush%2Far-BB1a1VtJ%3Focid%3Dmsedgntp 

Seattle Now
The Future of Work

Seattle Now

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 6, 2020 10:55


Coronavirus is re-shaping the way we work for the long term. Starbucks told its Seattle headquarters staff they will be working remotely for the next year.Amazonians and thousands of other Seattle-based workers are still waiting to find out what their work future will look like, after Covid-19.Guest: Joshua McNichols, KUOW ReporterSupport the show by making a gift to KUOW: http://bit.ly/seattlenow

@Livewithirenia
Succeed In Your Career and Life w/Nick Dimitrov

@Livewithirenia

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2020 57:05


In Conversation with the dynamic Nick Dimitrov who lives in Seattle, WA, USA, and is the founder and CEO of Amazon Bound.  In 2013, Nick joined Amazon and co-founded Amazon Game Studios in a series of direct pitches to Amazon's CEO, Jeff Bezos. Amazon has since invested more than one billion dollars in the gaming space, by acquiring the game-streaming platform Twitch, developing its own 3D game engine, and building top-budget games in its internal studios. Nick also became an Amazon Bar Raiser, one of that small number of Amazonians, who decide whether the company should hire a job candidate or not. In his three-year tenure as a Bar Raiser, he interviewed more than 350 job applicants and determined whether they raised the Amazon hiring bar. In 2018, Nick left Amazon to start Amazon Bound, a company designed to help prepare job applicants to interview effectively with Amazon and other tech companies that practice behavioral interviewing techniques. The future is now. This is the time to be a dragon. . . In this episode, Nick shared his journey from Bulgaria to the United States; his epic career pivots; and his thoughts about what it takes to succeed in your career and life. You are going to simply enjoy this episode. Connect with Nick on Social Media Linkedin: Nick Dimitrov Website: https://amazonbound.today/?src=ir . . My mission is to help you find your vibes wherever you may be in your life journey! In life  we have different seasons, highs and lows, this show will help you and hopefully change the trajectory of your life for good! I hope you like what you hear and stay tuned to this dial! #ireniavibes2020 If you have questions about booking me for your podcast/conference/workshop email me at infolivewithirenia@gmail.com. Connect with me on social media: Instagram:@livewithirenia Twitter: @livewithirenia The podcast hashtag is: #livewithirenia To have your questions and stories featured in future episodes, please connect with me here infolivewithirenia@gmail.com. . . Pay It Forward Subscribe to my podcast for free and leave a review on iTunes! This will help to increase the visibility of the show and help others to discover it even more.  Please share it with a friend who will find this valuable.  Feel free to take a picture of an episode which resonates with you and tag me on twitter/instagram.  I would love this. Thank you so much! Until next time, find your vibes! . . @Livewithirenia Podcast was produced by Irenia Roussel including  all branding, social media and artwork.

Labor Express Radio
Show: Labor Express for 5-17-2020, Cristobal Cavazos of Immigrant Solidarity DuPage Workers Center and Amazonians United.

Labor Express Radio

Play Episode Listen Later May 18, 2020 56:38


This is the full 5-17-2020 episode of the Labor Express Radio program. On this episode of Labor Express Radio, we highlight the work of Immigrant Solidarity DuPage and their Workers Center, especially their mutual aid efforts during the COVID-19 crisis. Cristobal Cavazos explains the history of the organization, the unique role of workers centers in the labor movement, and how they can organize to support workers during this crisis. He describes several recent victories including the two week shutdown of the Smithfield meatpacking plant in St. Charles, IL. Also in the program, does Amazonians United demonstrate the complex interaction between organizing and spontaneity in this recent explosion of worker self-activity? Labor Express Radio is Chicago's only English language labor news and current affairs radio program. News for working people, by working people. Labor Express Radio airs every Sunday at 8:00 PM on WLPN in Chicago, 105.5 FM. For more information, see our Facebook page... laborexpress.org and our homepage on Archive.org at: http://www.archive.org/details/LaborExpressRadio

AirGo
Ep 243 - On the Line with Zama of DCH1 Amazonians United

AirGo

Play Episode Listen Later May 15, 2020 58:22


From the isolation of our homes, AirGo is presenting a series called On the Line, which focuses on the COVID-19 pandemic and the people putting their bodies on the line to help us all survive and heal. Over the next few weeks, we'll be hopping on the line with workers in the health care, educational, governmental, organizing, and prison abolition spheres to talk about what their work looks like right now, and what we can do to help as we isolate our physical bodies at home. This episode's guest is Zama, one of the founders and lead organizers of DCH1 Amazonians United. He and his comrades have been bringing together workers and fighting for better conditions in the Amazon Fulfillment Center on 28th and Western here in Chicago. He talks about how the work evolved, connecting with other Amazon worker groups around the world, and how they've been forced to push the fight forward during the COVID-19 pandemic. Follow DCH1 Amazonians United: https://www.facebook.com/DCH1United/ Recorded 5/13/20 in Chicago Music from this week's show: Park - Isaiah Rashad

DC Comics News Podcast Network
DCN Podcast #70: New Superman Animated Movie, CW Rethinking Love & Fight Scenes Due To The Virus, DC Reveals June Lineup

DC Comics News Podcast Network

Play Episode Listen Later May 13, 2020 63:40


On the latest episode of the DC Comics News Podcast, the DCN crew discuss all the happenings in the world of DC, including the new upcoming animated film 'Superman: Man of Tomorrow', The CW rethinking how they will film love scenes and action scenes in a post-COVID world, the upcoming June lineup for DC comic books, and lots more news! So sit back, and enjoy! Brad Filicky: www.twitter.com/filickyb1 Kelly Gaines: www.twitter.com/KelGainesWrite Seth Singleton: www.twitter.com/1MoreSingleton Steve J Ray: www.twitter.com/el_steevo Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or Google Play, and if you like what you hear, please give us a 5-star rating and review! Follow us on social media: Facebook: www.facebook.com/DCComicsNews Twitter: www.twitter.com/DCComicsNews Instagram: www.instagram.com/DCComicsNews Tumblr: www.tumblr.com/DCComicsNews

People are Revolting
DCH1 Amazonians United Win PTO

People are Revolting

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 31, 2020 6:46


DCH1 Amazonians United Win PTO https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/23/amazon-warehouse-workers-win-fight-paid-time-company-condemned-reckless-labor #peoplearerevolting twitter.com/peoplerevolting Peoplearerevolting.com https://flipboard.com/@unrelatedthings/people-are-revolting-9mp6ipe2y

Arts & Ideas
Fighting Women

Arts & Ideas

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 10, 2020 44:46


Maaza Mengiste, Christina Lamb, Julie Wheelwright join Eleanor Barraclough to look at women's experience of fighting from Ethiopia's war with Mussolini to modern day Sudan back to Amazonians and British and French colonial troops in Canada. And academic Shawn Sobers discusses his research into the years Haile Selassie spent living in Bath after he escaped from a war-torn Ethiopia. Our Bodies, Their Battlefields by Christina Lamb looks at rape as a weapon in war. Maaza Mengiste's novel The Shadow King is set during Italy's 1935 invasion of Ethiopia. Julie Wheelwright's book is called Sisters in Arms: Female warriors from antiquity to the new millennium. It includes the discoveries she made whilst researching one of her ancestors. Shawn Sobers from the University of the West of England is a filmmaker and photographer whose work can be found at http://www.shawnsobers.com/ Producer: Torquil MacLeod

Scientific American 60-second Science
2020.3.4 Indigenous Amazonians Managed Valuable Plant Life

Scientific American 60-second Science

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 5, 2020 2:43


本期科学美国人60s文稿在此专辑推广的下方姊妹专辑UC Science Today上线!欢迎订阅,周一到周五日更!UC Science Today(点击左侧蓝字进入专辑页面查看详情)以下内容为本期科学美国人60s内容:

60-Second Science
Indigenous Amazonians Managed Valuable Plant Life

60-Second Science

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2020 2:42


Studies on very old vegetation in the Amazon basin show active management hundreds of years ago on species such as Brazil nut and cocoa trees.

Profit From the Inside with Joel Block
079: John Ghiorso - The Inside Track to Moving Products on Amazon

Profit From the Inside with Joel Block

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2020 41:12


Contact info:john@orcapac.com orcapac.com 503-789-9605 Bio:As CEO of Orca Pacific, John Ghiorso is known as a leading expert in Amazon as a sales platform for consumer brands. John’s incredible expertise is put to good use in developing cutting-edge strategies for 100+ industry-leading brands to grow their sales on Amazon. With over a decade of experience working hand-in-hand with Amazon, John has built a team of over 50 professionals comprised of former Amazonians, retail industry veterans, and digital marketing gurus, collectively bringing an unprecedented level of expertise in the Amazon platform. With a primary focus on helping manufacturers maximize their top-line volume on Amazon, Orca Pacific works with brands on both Vendor Central and Seller Central, as well as Amazon advertising through Sponsored Ads and Amazon DSP, to increase brand visibility and optimize conversion rates. John seizes every opportunity to grow his clients’ businesses through high-touch solutions customized for each client’s unique needs, from targeted Amazon advertising services to full-service turnkey account management. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Snoozecast: Stories for Sleep

Tonight, we’ll be reading the opening chapters of “New Amazonia: A Foretaste of the Future”, written by Elizabeth Burgoyne Corbett under the pen name “Mrs. James Corbett” and first published in 1889. Categorized as “feminist utopian”, it was one element in the wave of utopian and dystopian literature that marked the later nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. In her novel, Corbett envisions a successful suffragette movement eventually giving rise to a breed of highly evolved "Amazonians" who turn Ireland into a utopian society. -- 'V'Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/snoozecast)

Loosely Defined
Why we'll be broke in 2020 - LD#4

Loosely Defined

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 11, 2019 112:12


The year (and decade) is coming to an end, so this week on Loosely Defined, Bo and Ed cover all of the games, movies, and TV shows that they are looking forward to in 2020. We also discuss recent movie trailers for Black Widow, Wonder Woman 1984, and Free Guy. The Game Awards are also coming up, so we give our thoughts on the Game of the Year nominees. Scroll to the end of the description for time codes to jump around the episode! Please rate, review, and subscribe after you listen and be sure to follow us all-around the internet: Loosely Defined: LooselyDefined on YouTube Instagram Twitter Edward: Twitter and Instagram Edward Willshire on YouTube /AllMyMedia on Letterboxd Bo: Twitter and Instagram Time codes: 00:00 - Who is going to see Cats? 00:57 - Star Wars cast reactions 01:54 - Is Rise of Skywalker really the Endgame of Star Wars? 03:41 - Bo started Clone Wars 08:04 - Intro 08:50 - Remembering Juice WRLD 13:17 - Remembering Caroll Spinney 14:20 - Wonder Woman 1984 trailer discussion 21:09 - Amazonians movie announcement 21:56 - The Game Awards nominations 25:00 - Does Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have a chance at GotY? 30:18 - Bo's thoughts on Death Stranding 39:22 - The Game Awards reveal predictions 45:32 - Bo's Cyberpunk 2077 hype 47:30 - Why Ed isn't excited for Cyberpunk 54:43 - Overwatch 2 1:02:20 - Most anticipated video game of 2020 1:03:56 - Square Enix's Avengers 1:08:41 - Final Fantasy VII Remake 1:10:55 - Most anticipated movie of 2020 1:12:16 - DC 2020 movies and television 1:15:20 - Marvel 2020 movies and television 1:17:52 - Will The New Mutants be released? 1:20:22 - Fucking Morbius? 1:22:12 - Other comic book movies and TV 1:24:26 - Sonic the Hedgehog movie 1:27:42 - Free Guy 1:29:11 - Monster Hunter movie 1:30:07 - Godzilla vs. Kong 1:32:32 - No Time To Die 1:33:44 - Mulan 1:34:42 - Pixar 2020: Onward and Soul 1:35:30 - Uncharted movie 1:38:33 - ThunderCats Roar 1:40:12 - Muppets Live on Disney+ 1:42:47 - Brooklyn Nine-Nine and A.P. Bio 1:43:55 - Wrapping up 1:45:41 - 2020 surprises 1:48:54 - What we forgot and outro/plugs Intro and outro music is Blue Nude by Verified Picasso, sourced from the YouTube Audio Library

Pint O' Comics
Jack Klugman Popcorn

Pint O' Comics

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2019 71:41


The 8th door is opened...the seal between this world and Scary Larry's House Of Universal Horror is broken for the last time. What lies beyond? Lungfish. Yup Lungfish. Amazonians with weird haircuts, Jaws 2 talk and some 1950's cameltoe. Yeah, it's still the same old Pint. oh, and we discuss Creature From The Black Lagoon too! Bring on Scary Larry's Pint O' Horrors!!

Get Into Gate: A Stargate Podcast
Episode 143: Birthright (SG-1 7.10)

Get Into Gate: A Stargate Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2019 61:10


Amazonians, eat your heart out! SG-1 encounter a group of Jaffa warrior women who want to be allies, but refuse the offer of Tretonin - even if it means their own deaths. Where does this sit on the list of Christopher Judge-written episodes? What beef does Brendan have after three weeks away from the show? And what the hell does 'Futurama' have in common with the episode? Subscribe & listen now on your favourite podcasting app! And if you'd like to check out bobthemime's 'Sounds Of Stargate' Spotify playlist, check it out here: https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/lko4CzvOrLsGPBjDt4IWv2?domain=open.spotify.com Join us and discover or re-live the magic of all things Stargate! Find us on: Facebook: facebook.com/Get-Into-Gate-265524513827574/ Twitter: twitter.com/GetIntoGate Instagram: instagram.com/getintogate Patreon: www.patreon.com/getintogate Get Into Gate is a weekly celebration of all things STARGATE brought to you by the team behind Get Into Geek. When we discovered one of our own, Rhys, had never seen one second of STARGATE and was forever left out of our in-jokes and throwback references, the rest of the team decided to rediscover it with him and breakdown the series one episode at a time.

PRIMO NUTMEG
#191: The Amazon Fires w/ Gustavo Faleiros

PRIMO NUTMEG

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 7, 2019 42:34


On this very special episode of PRIMO NUTMEG filmed in São Paulo, Brazil, InfoAmazonia founder Gustavo Faleiros gives insight on the fires raging in the Amazon. Faleiros explains the recent history of Amazon deforestation, the political and economic forces in play, the impact on indigenous Amazonians, and what all of this means for our environment.Get access to the early episodes of PRIMO NUTMEG for only $1 a month on Patreon: https://patreon.com/primonutmegSubscribe to PRIMO NUTMEG on YouTube, SoundCloud, and iTunes!https://primonutmeg.com/ https://facebook.com/primonutmeg/ https://twitter.com/primonutmeg/ https://instagram.com/primonutmeg/https://minds.com/primonutmeg/https://youtube.com/c/primonutmeg/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/primonutmeg)

Brotherhood of Batman
Season 2 - Episode 16 - Wonder Woman

Brotherhood of Batman

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 22, 2019 49:19


The origin of Diana and the Amazonians is the focus this week as the brothers discuss and review the massive book, Wonder Woman by George Perez.  We explore the strengths and virtues of Wonder Woman as we establish her place in the Batman and DC universe.  We hope you enjoy.

InSecurity
Brian Fanzo - How Artificial Intelligence is Transforming the World

InSecurity

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 24, 2019 79:28


Brian Fanzo - How Artificial Intelligence is Transforming the World Siri… begin podcast Alexa… where my Amazonians at? Cortana? You still around? Tay… why do you hate people? Friday? Jarvis? Ultron? SKYNET?!?!?!   “AI will accelerate the end of ownership.” Today, we don’t own movies or music anymore—we subscribe to Netflix or Spotify. Tomorrow, we won’t own products anymore—we’ll subscribe to them. Tien Tzuo, CEO & Founder, Zuora   We will see the focus shift from AI to 'AI-driven' results as companies look for real business impact from AI tools. The technology will be less important than the business insights it delivers” Sean Byrnes, CEO and co-founder, Outlier   I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey   What the hell does any of that even mean?   In this episode of InSecurity, Matt Stephenson has a chat with Brian Fanzo about the impact of Artificial Intelligence on the larger world. That means large corporate enterprises, brands you recognized and everyday regular folks like you and me. What kind of impact is AI going to have on you? Stick around and find out.     About Brian Fanzo Brian Fanzo (@iSocialFanz) is a proud dad of three girls under the age of 10, a Pittsburgh loving sports fan, a self-proclaimed change evangelist which makes sense as the one constant in this pager wearing millennial’s career has been change. He is a proud geek that majored in computer science who then found his niche of “translating geekspeak” with a unique background that includes working 9 years for the DoD in Cybersecurity, 2 years at a booming cloud computing startup and the last 5 years an entrepreneur and CEO of iSocialFanz. Brian’s DoD career includes leading a team of 30+ developers & trainers with a mission of training, implementing and developing solutions that empowered the different branches of the military to share and collaborate leveraging social business tools their cybersecurity policies and procedures. If that doesn’t sound tough enough his role included 2 trips to Afghanistan & 3 to Iraq while also briefing the joint chiefs of staff at the Pentagon. Brian discovered his love for workshops, training and speaking while at the DoD for which he leveraged in his next job as the Technology Evangelist of a booming datacenter startup based out of Phoenix Arizona was known as IOdatacenters. Brian has a diverse background beyond the Department of Defense bit… he is currently the founder of iSocialFanz which has helped launch digital and influencer strategies with the world’s most iconic brands like Dell EMC, Adobe, IBM, UFC, Applebees and SAP.   The role of technology evangelist was one that Brian designed at pitched the CEO himself, as it was a role that two of his idols Guy Kawasaki at Apple and Robert Scoble of Microsoft, later Rackspace mastered creating cult-like followings while connecting internal and external community for the company. Brian had the luxury of reporting to the CEO with a dotted line to both the CIO & CMO where he was able to be the face of the brand speaking and evangelizing the IO data center and cloud solutions at the largest technology events in the world including Amazon ReInvent, VMworld, Gartner Symposium, CES and many more. In 2014 while still at IO Brian received his first of many social business awards as he was named Top 25 Social Business Leader of the future by the Economist and IBM. Brian leveraged the visibility and opportunities afforded to him with this award to travel to Ted Talks and the world’s largest technology events as an influencer, speaker and the personal brand of iSocialFanz.   Brian hosts two podcasts (FOMOFanz& SMACtalk), has traveled to over 70 countries and has spoken at many of the world’s largest events including SXSW, Social Media Marketing World, CES, Mobile World Congress. Oh… and… Brian is a semi-professional poker player who isn’t afraid to leverage his fast talking skills to read your body language and spot when you’re bluffing.   There’s not much we can do about that snapback hat… we’ve suggested all kinds of different fitted solutions but we still keep seeing that damn snapback.    About Matt Stephenson Insecurity Podcast host Matt Stephenson (@packmatt73) leads the Security Technology team at Cylance, which puts him in front of crowds, cameras, and microphones all over the world. He is the regular host of the InSecurity podcast and host of CylanceTV   Twenty years of work with the world’s largest security, storage, and recovery companies has introduced Matt to some of the most fascinating people in the industry. He wants to get those stories told so that others can learn from what has come   Every week on the InSecurity Podcast, Matt interviews leading authorities in the security industry to gain an expert perspective on topics including risk management, security control friction, compliance issues, and building a culture of security. Each episode provides relevant insights for security practitioners and business leaders working to improve their organization’s security posture and bottom line.   Can’t get enough of Insecurity? You can find us at ThreatVector InSecurity Podcasts, iTunes/Apple Podcastsand GooglePlayas well as Spotify, Stitcher, SoundCloud, I Heart Radioand wherever you get your podcasts!   Make sure you Subscribe, Rate and Review!

Junk Food Dinner
JFD465: The Pink Chiquitas, Raising Cain, Full Contact

Junk Food Dinner

Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2019


Oh man, Junkies, we're back with another wacky week of random-ass films from the back isles of some forgotten video store.Up first, Frank Stallone plays the son of a recently deceased private eye who is on the run from the Mexican mob. When he finds himself in the small town of Beamsville, the whole town is engrossed by a pink meteor that has landed in the town and is causing all the women to become sex-crazed Amazonians in The Pink Chiquitas from 1987.Then, John Lithgow plays an oncologist with multiple personalities who is killing women and kidnapping children in a plot cooked up by his father (who may or may not also be a figment of his imagination) in Brian De Palma's Raising Cain from 1992.And finally, Chow Yun-Fat and Anthony Wong play a couple of low-level criminals who join up with a trio of eccentric and sadistic thugs to pull off one last big heist. The punches, bullets and explosions are plentiful in the over-the-top Full Contact from 1992.All this plus witty banter between friends, a slew of Junk Mail, sad Nerd News about Doris Day, the Honey I Shrunk the Kids re-make, this week's blu-rays and so much more. LISTEN NOW: MP3 Direct DonloydGot a movie suggestion for the show, or better yet an opinion on next week's movies? Drop us a line at JFDPodcast@gmail.com. Or leave us a voicemail: 347-746-JUNK (5865). Add it to your telephone now! JOIN THE CONVERSATION!Also, if you like the show, please take a minute and subscribe and/or comment on us on iTunes, Stitcher, Blubrry or Podfeed.net. Check us out on Facebook and Twitter! We'd love to see some of your love on Patreon - it's super easy and fun to sign up for the extra bonus content. We become unwitting superheroes via your love and support. Please avoid checking out this embarrassing merchandise!

Farm To Taber
2.2 Backed Up Like an Alabama Sh*t Train

Farm To Taber

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 5, 2019 29:45


Backed Up Like An Alabama Shit TrainIn early 2018 in a small town called Parrish Alabama, just northwest of Birmingham, the smell was everywhere. Ten million pounds of sewage sludge in rail cars were on a routine trip to a landfill when the town of West Jefferson- the next town on the rail route- said no more sludge was allowed to pass through. Parrish had no such laws on the books; so while the sludge’s owners worked on another way to get it to its landfill just 25 minutes away, Parrish got stuck with the railcars on a section of track in a residential area, and they didn’t move. For days. And then weeks. The train cars finally left- two months later.The burning question is in a town of this size, where did all this shit come from? The answer: one thousand miles away in New York City.New York City makes almost half a million tons of sewage sludge per year. They used to just throw it in the ocean until 1988. That’s frowned upon now, so it needs to go somewhere else. Because there’s so much of it and the city has a lot of resources to move it, New York City sludge goes unusually far for sewage: it’s loaded into trucks and train cars and hauled to farms in upstate, Pennsylvania, Virginia, even Colorado and Alabama. That’s a lot of expense, a lot of carbon to move it around, and a lot of gross smells all over the country. And for a lot of folks, it’s the only part of New York City that they will ever see. It’s that one place. You know, the one with the shit.A constant feature of big cities throughout history is a big poop problem. The local food movement’s made us very aware of how much food is imported into cities. Less talked about, but just as true, is that for every ton of food brought in, about a ton of sewage sludge is born- and it has to go somewhere. How we handle that massive flow of sewage drives all kinds of environmental trends—water pollution, whether or not we can eat seafood, soil damage, and climate change. Poop is serious business and to understand how it affects us, we have to go all around the world. We’re going to talk sewage history, and what that has to do with agriculture and climate change. And we’re going to talk about a way to deal with some of our ongoing poop problems with a really old technology: biochar.Historically, a lot of societies handled human waste by collecting it and putting it on crop fields—maybe most famously, East Asia. Western cultures tended to see this practice as horrific and disgusting; and there are obviously big health risks at play any time you’re using raw sewage for agriculture. But I want to highlight something we’ll come back to: when we’re talking sewage, especially in modern times, there’s so much volume that there are really only two places to put it. The land or the ocean. That’s it. We’ll get to that later.• England handled sewage by dumping it into the ocean, via the nearest local river. It seems like a quick & easy way to dispose of waste- the river carries everything away. The East Asia strategy took a lot of painstaking and smelly collecting and hauling; the English method was very straightforward. But as one can imagine, especially as English cities started to grow in the 1800s, their rivers died. But that wasn’t the only problem.This approach to sewage destroyed England’s soils. And because the US’s core cultural practices like sewage management mostly came from England, the US experienced a lot of these problems as well. But nowhere was it more extreme than England itself.As England’s rural population was forced into cities starting in the 1830s, they kept eating crops grown in the countryside. But instead of pooping it back out into the countryside because that’s where they lived, now the nutrients were washing out to sea via the Thames and other local rivers. This one-way flow of nutrients wrecked England’s farmland. It was like they were mining the soil for nutrients—nitrogen and phosphorus and calcium left the soil and went into the crops, were harvested and departed for the cities, flushed down the river, and never returned. By the 1850s, crop yields were clearly going down and people were starting to panic. England found creative ways to fill its hunger. Some traditional brick-making areas found layers of soil and rock that, when ground up and mixed with water or acid, made plants grow really well. These geological layers were fossilized poop and other debris that built up in the shallow oceans that once covered southeast England, or coprolite. Coprolite mining became a huge industry in England. But it still wasn’t enough. Fertilizer rustlers started fanning out through Europe. They raided catacombs in the Mediterranean to steal bones. People dug through old battlefields like Waterloo for the remains of dead soldiers, ground them up, and shipped them to England as fertilizer. A German crop scientist of the time, Justus von Liebig, described England as “a vampire hang[ing] upon the breast of Europe, and even the world, sucking the lifeblood.”• Like most vampires, England couldn’t be satisfied by petty graverobbing. Its farms remained threadbare. The British Empire started its most ambitious agricultural project yet: mining tons and tons of mummified bird shit, called guano, from small desert islands on the other side of the globe, off the coast of Peru. Seabirds raised their chicks here, gorging on rich shoals of fish. Then they and their chicks pooped a lot of those fish nutrients back out on land. It’s a desert, so instead of decomposing or washing away in rain, the bird feces just dried out into hills of chalky, concentrated plant nutrients. The Inka and other peoples living in the Andes used guano by the llama-load to give their crops a boost, but England and other colonial powers hauled it out by the ton; ran brutal mining camps to dig it away; and fought wars over who got to control big piles of dried-up bird shit. Because you could also use guano to make gunpowder.There’s a whole history to tell about the wars colonial powers fought over guano. But the tragic part is this whole mess could have been avoided by decent sewage handling back in London and the other imperial capitals of the West. China had been making both fertilizer and gunpowder from human waste for centuries. There wasn’t any law saying “we must throw all of our sewage out to sea”—that’s just how England rolled.In the centuries since, English and American-style sewage handling’s seen a lot of improvements. And with synthetic fertilizers, the one-way flow of nutrients from fertilizer to farm to city to waste became doable, at least for a while. The short-term emergency went away and we kind of forgot about it.But there’s still a big problem. There’s still a limited amount of phosphorus. It’s a major plant nutrient that we can’t just make, we have to mine it. There’s a lot of controversy about how much phosphorus is left- estimates range from about 100 to 200 years. But bottom line, the phosphorus we eat mostly goes into the sewage-- so just throwing it away is a big mistake. We need to find a clean, safe way to close that loop and bring used phosphorus back into crop fields. There’s no other way to sustain human life.• But, using sewage as fertilizer has some obvious problems. There’s disease, odors, bugs. and as a food safety professional, “no raw sewage allowed” is like our Prime Directive. Heavy metals can be an issue in some areas, but they’re not the hazard they used to be. Most heavy metals in city wastewater come from industrial discharge and as the US manufacturing sector has waned, so have our heavy metal discharges. But other pollutant challenges remain: there are other issues: drug residues, and in winter there can be some salt from the streets. So anything we do to close that nutrient loop has to take care of these extra goodies in the sewage.The other big problem with closing that loop is that sewage sludge is heavy and bulky. It’s got nutrients, but most of it is not nutrients- it’s just stuff. You have to use a LOT of it for a crop to get nutrients it needs. Trucking that much to the farm is prohibitive. It costs so much to move that there’s no way farms can pay for it, it’s a huge financial burden on cities, and it takes enormous amounts of fossil fuels. And as Parrish knows, trucking makes a string of towns that have to deal with the smell.So: to recap. We need a way to spruce up sewage. We’ve got to make it clean—remove pathogens, drug residues, smells, and sometimes heavy metals. And we need to distill it down, making it light and a lot more concentrated so that we don’t have to choose between saving nutrients and saving on greenhouse gases.The approach getting the most early traction right now is anaerobic sludge digestion—where you stew the goods and make biomethane, or natural gas. But there’s another approach that I think works better at all the things we need to do for sewage reuse. And that’s biochar. • How do I love biochar. Let me count the ways. It does roughly the same things that anaerobic digestion does, it’s just better at it in every possible way. In my humble opinion. Anaerobic digestion’s big selling point is twofold: it cuts down sludge volume by turning a lot of it into a combustible gas that you can use for energy. But biochar also does both those things, and it’s better at it. The way you make biochar is by heating up stuff to temperatures where it would normally burn but you do it in a closed vessel so there’s no oxygen. So instead of burning it just gives up gases that you can burn on-site or truck and pipe around just like with natural gas. That heating process, by the way, is called gasification or pyrolysis—and biochar, which is just short for charcoal made from biological materials, is the solid, blackened leftovers after all the stuff that can turn into gas has left.Anaerobic digestion concentrates sludge down to something lighter and richer in nutrients— somewhat. Anaerobic digesters can reduce sludge by half, at the absolute max. Biochar easily reduces mass by more like 50-70%, offering huge savings in fossil fuel use and trucking costs over anaerobic digestion.Let’s talk about after processing. Leftovers from anaerobic digestion are still mostly water; they still have to be dried, which takes a lot of energy, before they can be sent to their final destination. And dried anaerobic sludge isn’t good for much: it’s less nasty than raw sewage, but still has pathogens, drug residues, and a lot of smell. You can’t use them on food crops. So even after going through all that fuss with anaerobic digestion, a lot of municipal treatment districts find they still have to pay to dry and haul away tons and tons of stinky sludge that nobody wants. With biochar, on the other hand, smells, pathogens and drug residues don’t survive the charring process; and for places that do have problematic levels of heavy metals in their waste, biochar concentrates the sludge down enough that extracting the heavy metals from the char, or just landfilling it, is way more doable than it is with anaerobic digestion. Another thing, anaerobic digestion only works with liquid waste that breaks down quickly. Sewage and wet slurries from certain types of livestock operations are pretty much the only thing it’s good for. But a well-made biochar gasifier can take on anything made of carbon. ANYTHING.Sewage sludge? Naturally. Manure: Yes.Wet or dry food waste: Yes.Wood? Yes.Other cellulosic biomass like crop wastes and switchgrass: Yes.Plastic that recyclers don’t accept anymore because there’s no market for the breakdown products: Yes. You can turn plastic in biochar. It’s made of carbon, it’ll work.Plywood, veneer, and other construction materials that aren’t safe to compost or burn because they’re part wood and part plastics and glue: Yes.Old clothes that can’t be recycled or composted because they’re mixed natural and synthetic fibers: Yes.Tires: YES.Dead bodies: like everything else on this list that’s kind of juicy, would probably have to be dried first. But technically doable.And once you’ve taken whatever your raw material is through that charring process, biochar is unique biological fertilizers. Charcoal breaks down very, very slowly. Like, “it takes centuries” slowly. It is a great way to sequester carbon. • Most people who know biochar know it as something you put in soil to help plants grow. Some biochars, like those made of wood, are less a fertilizer and more fertilizer-adjacent. They don’t have nutrients, but they give soil better texture and absorbency. It holds on to water and nutrients better. As a crop scientist, it’s funny— when the popular press talks about agriculture, it talks a lot about nutrients. It doesn’t mention that a lot of soils won’t hold those nutrients— when it rains, nutrients and water just run out like a sieve. Sandy soils and tropical red clay soils are both really prone to this. Which is why folks in Brazil, when they’re clearing forest for farms, have always been on the lookout for something called- and I’m gonna butcher this- terra preta do indio. It means Indian dark earth and it’s not a natural occurrence. It’s remnants of communities who lived in the Amazon. They made lots of biochar-- charcoal from wood, human and animal waste, pottery shards, bones, and other kitchen trash, and added it to the soil. It created patches of rich, dark soil that are still in the Amazon today, covering an area twice the size of Great Britain, because charcoal doesn’t break down. And we need to talk someday about pre-contact civilizations in the Amazon—there were cities in there. Archaeology in the Amazon is very difficult—it’s a big floodplain with no stone to make buildings or tools with, so everything was made of wood and textiles which decay almost immediately. But charcoal and biochar don’t. They last in a soil for hundreds or thousands of years. It’s one of the best witnesses we have at this time to a way of life that was taken down by European contact. There’s still a lot of debate in the modern West on whether biochar was just a way to get rid of garbage or a deliberate strategy for enriching the Amazon’s poor red clay soils. To be honest, I find that debate kind of silly. I’m interested in biochar because it’s really good at both. And Brazilian peasants didn’t need someone with a PhD in chemistry to tell them charcoal-enriched soils farm better—they’re the ones who told the PhDs. Making more terra preta is a popular topic in the permaculture community. As well it should be. It improves your soil, makes plants happy, and sequesters carbon for hundreds or thousands of years. One thing that keeps popping up in modern restoration attempts, though, is a preoccupation with making it out of wood. Wood is easy to char because it’s relatively dry, but there’s also this mindset that carbon equals trees. Even though everything alive is made of carbon. So it can be kind of a mental glitch that can blind us to non-tree carbon opportunities sometimes.Charcoal is like Velcro for nutrients. It’s got all these little pores and single-atom cation exchange sites—they’re like thirsty for potassium, calcium, ammonium, and other nutrients. So if you make a biochar out of something like wood, that doesn’t already have a lot of those things in it, well now the biochar wants to suck it out of something else. If you just put raw wood biochar on your soil, the biochar’s actually better at soaking up nutrients than plants are and so the plants wind up stunted. That’s why the permaculture forums also talk a lot about needing to “charge” biochar up with nutrients. And since this is permaculture forums we’re talking about, often what they mean by that is peeing in it. Now if you’re just DIYing tomatoes for personal use, that’s fine, whatever, have a blast. But if we’re talking city-scale waste handling, there’s a lot of folks out there with drug-resistant gonorrhea. So by all means, look me in the eye and say “don’t worry, urine is sterile” one more time. Bottom line, biochar made out of just wood has some issues. It’s worth remembering that the Amazonians who invented biochar weren’t just charring wood, they were putting all of their trash in the char piles. Their biochar was made of manure, fish bones, a lot of nutrient-dense stuff. Which tends to be wetter and juicier and dirtier to handle—especially at city scale. Fortunately, modern technology can make itself useful here. Charcoal has a lot of industrial uses, so “how to make charcoal out of a lot of different raw sources” has been a major pursuit in modern technology development. If you’ve ever used activated charcoal or charcoal briquettes, they might have been made from wood. Or they may have been made from peat; petroleum tar; olive pits; coconut husks or other dense agricultural residues. We’re also pretty good at making coke, which is basically when you make biochar out of coal. It’s a very concentrated solid fuel that lets you do things thing differently than wood or coal. Just one example- when we started drying beer malt with coke instead of wood back in England, it made a lighter roast. That’s how pale ales were born. It’s all thanks to the West being pretty good at making char out of all kinds of things when we put our minds to it, even all the way back in the 16 or 1700s. And that’s where sewage history, carbon cycling technology, and beer history all meet up. •So: we’re really good at making various kinds of biochar at large scale in a modern context, and we have been for a really long time. We’ve just always used it to make industrial feedstocks, not stabilize our soil or dispose of trash. Even though we desperately need to do both of those things. It kind of reminds me of how some peoples in the Americas had wheels, but only used them for children’s toys. Not for moving big carts of stuff around. Sometimes you’ll hear people today say things like “wow, how stupid is that, to have wheels and not use them.” But the Inka and Mesoamerican empires and probably the Amazonians and other peoples in North America already had vast trading networks without wheels. Meanwhile, we need to make lots of biochar just to survive way worse than they needed wheels to do trade. And just like them with wheels, we know how to make the thing, but we’re not doing it. So… it just makes me think… who’s stupid now?What we have here is a case where we have this technology in the modern world and we have had it for a long time, but we’ve failed to adopt it to a really critical use. And it just makes me think of how things could have gone differently with contact. If explorers going to Brazil had done more exploring and less conquering, Europe could have learned about biochar five hundred years ago and using it for sewage treatment five hundred years ago instead of like, yesterday. Instead of the filth and hunger and disease immortalized in Charles Dickens, we could have had clean cities and clean water. We could have had healthy crops instead of raiding battlefields for the bones of boys killed in action, and then getting a bunch more young men killed in wars over farmland and piles of bird shit. And I think that’s one of the most interesting things about biochar. It explodes the myth of technological progress: this idea that good tech ideas WILL be inevitably get adopted, that new technologies are the driving force behind how civilizations change over time, and that new technology always drives change in a positive direction. Biochar’s a bomb-ass technology that—in the West—has gone practically nowhere.• So. If biochar’s so great, why has adoption been so slow?First, I mean, colonialism. The Amazon was full of folks making the stuff, and if they were still doing it around the time of European contact, they definitely weren’t after that. Genocide is bad for a lot of reasons; but for the techno-optimists out there, we need to remember that technology doesn’t exist independently of the people who make it. Who know how to do it. Who can teach others how to do it. Without smart people who know what they’re doing, technology is dead—and that applies to all civilizations and societies.If you want a great modern example of this, we were making Apollo rockets just 50 years ago and today we don’t know how. We have all the parts, we know what they did and what they look like—but for a lot of those rocket components, we don’t know how they got made. There are so many parts in an Apollo rocket that it turns out we never got around to writing down how each one gets made. Sometimes they just handed out specs to machinists and technicians who made their parts using personal know-how that never got written down. We can guess how it was done. But we don’t know. And that was for a huge, really well-documented project only 50 years ago.The descendants of the terra preta makers are still there, just not in the way they were before. Disease and war destroyed their communities, turning them into refugees. Their way of life changed from sedentary farmers and city dwellers into being always on the move, using slash-and-burn. Without being able to stay in one place, you can’t keep tending and creating rich soils. Just like making Apollo rocket parts, that day-to-day hands-on know-how died with the people who did it. Second, the rediscovery of biochar in modern science is only about ten or fifteen years old. The modern engineers who make the equipment are still learning how to best char down all these different materials, from sludge to food waste to tires, and how to make equipment that’s be flexible and dependable. 2019 is a really cool time to be alive, because that period of having to figure it out before you can actually start using it is at its close. We are now ready to move forward.Third: Municipal waste handling is a big, blue-chip project that you really want to work right the first time. There are only a few engineering firms that do those kinds of builds. They locked down a waste treatment model that works great back in the 1960s, and they’re not going to suddenly start doing it different unless their customers—cities and townships— tell them to do something different. And the folks in city government with the clout to demand major procurement changes like that aren’t usually young engineers with an appetite for adventure. Fourth, the folks who make anaerobic digesters are really great at marketing anaerobic digesters. They’re getting their proposals out in front of cities and engineering firms—so that when a city does want to try something different & eco-friendly, the eco-friendly thing they know about is anaerobic digestion. And that, dear listeners, is why we podcast about biochar. You gotta get that and preach that good word. Fifth and final reason: biochar’s a sustainable, natural soil amendment that builds soil fertility, boosts yields, sequesters carbon, and is realistically the only way we’re ever going to avoid hitting peak phosphorus. This is clearly such a great fit for organic farming. (24:59)Well, it should be. Organic regulators only allow chars made from wood and plant materials and sometimes animal bones. These things-- farmers for the most part don’t actually want to use, because these chars are so low in nutrients that they actually pull nutrients away from plants. You have to add a lot of compost, manure, or other fertilizers to make these biochars useful. And at that point, most farmers are just going to add manure or fertilizer and skip the biochar. It's not useful in itself. Chars that are just made directly from manure or sludge don’t have that problem. They already have those nutrients in them, and they have plenty to give to the plants. But USDA organic says that if you use these on your farm, you lose your organic certification. And funny enough, it’s not even because of legitimate concerns with hygiene or heavy metals- which can crop up when chars from these sources are made badly. It’s because, I shit you not, they claim “farmers would never char manure.”Which is really interesting, because farmers charring manure is exactly how this all got started. About thousand years ago, in the Amazon. We’ve known that this charcoal was not just wood, but a lot of human and animal poop making up that terra preta, since at least 2003. That’s how these towns and cities handled lots of human waste in a tropical environment without dirtying up the rivers that their food and water came from. It’s a very solid concept and it’s well-documented as a traditional practice. But apparently that’s not good enough for USDA organic.Organic certification does have its uses. It also has a lot of issues that need work. One of the things that irks me about it the most is that it makes all these claims about restoring the world through traditional farming methods, but not all “traditional farming methods” are accepted equally. Organic has a strong temporal and geographic preference: if you look at what’s accepted as “traditional and organic,” it mostly means things that European and Euro-American farmers were doing between around 1700 and World War. That’s what traditional means to them.And that’s not just a moral problem. It’s a very practical problem— because as we’ve talked about in this podcast, Europe’s traditional farming methods were ok, but they weren’t amazingly inspired or anything. And a lot of traditional European farming methods were straight up kinda fucked up and caused serious problems just within a few decades. And that’s how we get a version of “sustainable farming” where you can repeat what the British Empire was doing in the guano islands and use mummified bird shit trucked from halfway across the world on your farm and you can be certified organic—but you can’t use ancient, traditional, tried-and-proven methods pioneered by indigenous people. Europe’s also such a tiny portion of the world’s land. It’s temperate and Mediterranean. Europe never developed ways to live sustainably in rain forests or savannahs or deserts or oceans or tundras the way that people who have lived, farmed, foraged, and hunted there for thousands of years have. Tropical farmers came up with ingenious things like biochar, and organic certifiers won’t recognize it. If you put it on your farm, you’ll lose your organic certification. And the only justification they can really give boils down to “Europeans didn’t think of it first.”Because of this 100% cultural issue, there’s really no market for biochar made from manure and city wastes. The people who want to use it—organic farmers—aren’t allowed to. So nobody buys it. So nobody’s going to make it. So we’re still stuck with shit trains in Alabama.•That’s this episode of Farm to Taber. People ask me all the time if it’s worth it to buy organic. Nobody wants a twenty-minute answer to that question. We would really like something quick and actionable. But in the end, I think a lot of our food and agricultural problems boil down to cultural chauvinism by Europe and its descendants. Like it or not, organic is kinda just behaving like another face of that right now. It’s frustrating because the food industry has sold us this idea that you can change the world by changing what’s in your shopping basket. And there is some real power in that. But if that’s the only way you make change, then all you can do is pick from the choices someone else gives you, and sometimes those choices suck. Stay woke—and if you ever get a moment to yell at the organic industry for being a cesspit of imperialism, give ‘em hell from me. • In a few weeks we’re doing an interview with Mike McGolden, former coal engineer turned biochar engineer. He runs around full-time trying to convince people to make biochar, so he’s got a great vantage point on how we’re doing at adopting it globally. Thanks for listening to Farm to Taber. You can follow us on iTunes, Soundcloud, or find the podcast on Patreon for bonus content. Catch you on the next episode.

Shifties
86

Shifties

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 4, 2018 64:28


What's it like to run out of coffee in the face of a hoard of Amazonians? Special guest Alex Donka talks Starbucks, bad coffee, and what its like serving caffeine in an Amazon building down town. Also: the true American holiday, lying on your resume, fancy drink orders, and a debate as old as time (or at least twitter)

Drunk Mythology
Ep 4 - The Twelve Labors of Jerkules Part 2

Drunk Mythology

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2018 39:07


Part 2 of our Hercules series, last time he took the Oracles’ chair, this time, he's gonna fight the sun! Man-eating birds and giant white bulls are no match for our hero Herakles, but will our brave demigod succeed in completing his remaining labors? Man-eating mares, Amazonians, golden apples and a trip to the underworld are on Hercules’ to-do list and the jerk is even gonna help and hinder some titans along the way. Drunk Mythology is a podcast created by Krista and Christian, recounting the feats and failures of world Mythology, with a few drinks along the way.

李将军英语时间
李将军英语时间-亚马逊的领导力原则 2018

李将军英语时间

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 2, 2018 4:04


点击每期节目可以看到具体文稿内容Amazon Leadership PrinciplesOur Leadership Principles aren't just a pretty inspirational wall hanging. These Principles work hard, just like we do. Amazonians use them, every day, whether they're discussing ideas for new projects, deciding on the best solution for a customer's problem, or interviewing candidates. It's just one of the things that makes Amazon peculiar.Customer ObsessionLeaders start with the customer and work backwards. They work vigorously to earn and keep customer trust. Although leaders pay attention to competitors, they obsess over customers.OwnershipLeaders are owners. They think long term and don't sacrifice long-term value for short-term results. They act on behalf of the entire company, beyond just their own team. They never say “that's not my job". Invent and SimplifyLeaders expect and require innovation and invention from their teams and always find ways to simplify. They are externally aware, look for new ideas from everywhere, and are not limited by “not invented here". As we do new things, we accept that we may be misunderstood for long periods of time.Are Right, A LotLeaders are right a lot. They have strong judgment and good instincts. They seek diverse perspectives and work to disconfirm their beliefs.Learn and Be CuriousLeaders are never done learning and always seek to improve themselves. They are curious about new possibilities and act to explore them.Hire and Develop the BestLeaders raise the performance bar with every hire and promotion. They recognize exceptional talent, and willingly move them throughout the organization. Leaders develop leaders and take seriously their role in coaching others. We work on behalf of our people to invent mechanisms for development like Career Choice.Insist on the Highest StandardsLeaders have relentlessly high standards - many people may think these standards are unreasonably high. Leaders are continually raising the bar and driving their teams to deliver high quality products, services and processes. Leaders ensure that defects do not get sent down the line and that problems are fixed so they stay fixed.Think BigThinking small is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Leaders create and communicate a bold direction that inspires results. They think differently and look around corners for ways to serve customers.Bias for ActionSpeed matters in business. Many decisions and actions are reversible and do not need extensive study. We value calculated risk taking. FrugalityAccomplish more with less. Constraints breed resourcefulness, self-sufficiency and invention. There are no extra points for growing headcount, budget size or fixed expense.Earn TrustLeaders listen attentively, speak candidly, and treat others respectfully. They are vocally self-critical, even when doing so is awkward or embarrassing. Leaders do not believe their or their team's body odor smells of perfume. They benchmark themselves and their teams against the best.Dive DeepLeaders operate at all levels, stay connected to the details, audit frequently, and are skeptical when metrics and anecdote differ. No task is beneath them.Have Backbone; Disagree and CommitLeaders are obligated to respectfully challenge decisions when they disagree, even when doing so is uncomfortable or exhausting. Leaders have conviction and are tenacious. They do not compromise for the sake of social cohesion. Once a decision is determined, they commit wholly.Deliver ResultsLeaders focus on the key inputs for their business and deliver them with the right quality and in a timely fashion. Despite setbacks, they rise to the occasion and never settle.968重庆之声每周一至周五8点56分每天三分钟养成良好英语听说习惯

Flip the Switch
Episode 41 - Entrepreneurial Industries

Flip the Switch

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 22, 2018 48:28


Amazonians are upset that Bezos is selling face recognition technology to the police, PayPal invests $120 million to protect your identity, and the Supreme court makes a decision on the new internet state sales tax. Our main topic revolves around the 4 Emerging markets for the entrepreneur in all of us.

SQL Data Partners Podcast
Episode 132: What technologists can learn from superheroes

SQL Data Partners Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 18, 2018 28:44


Bang! Pow! Crash!  Besides just awesome fighting techniques, are there things we can learn from superheroes?  My guest, Will Fehringer, gave that very question some thought and came up with some very interesting ideas I thought were worth passing along.  Wonder Woman and the Amazonians give us something to thing about preparing for our ultimate goal.  Drax, from the Guardians of the Galaxy, gives a great example of the Fool's Choice in conversation.  Every good superhero has a value system.  What is your value system and how do you enforce it? One of the biggest challenges to technologies is the Superhero Syndrome.  Sure, it feels safe to save the day, but the danger is we might get to the question Mr. Incredible posed "Can you keep this place in order without me?  Didn't I just save you people?"  The ability to be the superhero all the time is not sustainable, so we won't be able to work alone all the time.  The ability to work in teams and trust the process is becoming a bigger and bigger part of what is determining a great IT resource from everyone else. This episode explores some of these topics and gives some thoughts about how we can apply the lessons super heroes have to battle on a regular basis.  What are your thoughts?  What can you learn from a superhero? The show notes for today's episode can be found at http://sqldatapartners.com/2018/04/19/episode-132-what-can-technologists-learn-from-superheroes. Have fun on the SQL Trail!

Fantasy Toolz Podcast
Episode 2.01 - Mental Uploads

Fantasy Toolz Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 27, 2018 32:49


2.01 reviews the @darenw stats by state series (0:40), notes that the Silmarillion is free for prime Amazonians (1:58) , gets into fantasy with understanding rankings (5:12), evaluates the ADP lag argument (16:05), announces the recent LoMo move (24:51), tackles AI for sports analysis (25:38), and ends on a review of The Matrix (28:10).

New Books Network
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books Network

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 26:41


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New Books in Latin American Studies
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books in Latin American Studies

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 26:41


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New Books in Science, Technology, and Society
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books in Science, Technology, and Society

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 26:41


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New Books in Anthropology
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books in Anthropology

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 27:06


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New Books in History
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books in History

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 27:06


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New Books in Environmental Studies
Nicholas C. Kawa, “Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, and Forests” (U. Texas Press, 2016)

New Books in Environmental Studies

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 5, 2017 26:41


Widespread human alteration of the planet has led many scholars to claim that we have entered a new epoch in geological time: the Anthropocene, an age dominated by humanity. This ethnography is the first to directly engage the Anthropocene, tackling its problems and paradoxes from the vantage point of the world’s largest tropical rainforest. Drawing from extensive ethnographic research, Nicholas C. Kawa‘s Amazonia in the Anthropocene: People, Soils, Plants, Forests (University of Texas Press, 2016) examines how pre-Columbian Amerindians and contemporary rural Amazonians have shaped their environment, describing in vivid detail their use and management of the region’s soils, plants, and forests. At the same time, Kawa highlights the ways in which the Amazonian environment resists human manipulation and control–a vital reminder in this time of perceived human dominance. Written in engaging, accessible prose, Amazonia in the Anthropocene offers an innovative contribution to debates about humanity’s place on the planet, encouraging deeper ecocentric thinking and a more inclusive vision of ecology for the future. Nivedita Kar is a student at the University of Southern California, having graduated from UCLA with a double major in Anthropology and Statistics and a masters degree from Northwestern University in biostatistics and epidemiology. She is immersed in the realm of academia and medicine, she hopes to be one of the rare few who aim to bridge the gap between clinical literacy and statistical methods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Podcast
LOLA - Wonder Woman

Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 14, 2017 113:41


It's finally here. This week Rebekah is joined by Maria Toft and Ashley Garbs, the three Amazonians are reviewing Wonder Woman . . . Nuff said. "The question isn’t who is going to let me; it’s who is going to stop me.” - Ayn Rand "There is no force equal to a woman determined to rise" - W.E.B. Dubois Enjoy and as always ARMY STRONG

Two Strangers One Podcast
Ep 243 - Podcasters In Basements Getting Covfefe

Two Strangers One Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2017 89:31


Chris and Paul Pescrillo ( http://www.GeekEInc.com ) discuss Chris's birthday, going to the movies, IMAX, knowing people, reserved seating, texting in theaters, ushers, Oscar mail, Paul rather be with his family, McRib, transfer, Chris Cornell, atavan, Audioslave, Tiger Woods, ambien, drug free, disease free, kids are horrible, field trip, bad names, rising tide, date, butterfaces, http://comicsetc.biz , http://cinemapsyops.podbean.com/ , http://www.Click-N-Hit.com , Wonder Woman, Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Amazonians, Aries, Zach Snyder, ice cream,

Fed+Fit Podcast
Ep. 80: Reverse Interview with Listener Tara!

Fed+Fit Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 7, 2016 27:24


Today kicks off the very first Reverse Interview where I invite Fed & Fit readers who've written in with questions to come ask them on the show! Fed & Fit Reader Tara and I discuss healthy desserts, if nut butters are a healthy choice, thirst for hunger, transitioning from a diet to a lifestyle, when intentionally ingesting gluten is worth it, and the benefits of white over brown rice. We're back with our 80th episode of the Fed+Fit Podcast! Remember to check back every Monday for a new episode and be sure to subscribe on iTunes! Find us HERE on iTunes and be sure to "subscribe." Connect at: Episode 80 Transcription Today we’re kicking off the very first Fed and Fit reverse interview, where I invite readers to dial in and ask their questions on the line. Today we’ve got Tara, who talks about; we chat about healthy desserts, nut butters (if they’re healthy or not), thirst instead of hunger, interpreting those cues, transitioning from a diet to a lifestyle, when is gluten really worth it; and then why white rice over brown rice? Cassy Joy: Welcome back to another episode of the Fed and Fit podcast. Today is an extra special episode, because we’re doing something totally different than what you have seen before on this show, and maybe on some other shows. So let me give you some background information before I introduce our very special guest. Every once in a while, folks will send me an email or they’ll comment on social media, whether it’s Instagram or Facebook, or even Snapchat. Gosh I love Snapchat because I can have conversations with people. And I love answering questions, and I love giving everybody, I guess just the answers that they’re looking for, or at least some direction or some reassurance. And it dawned on me that they can’t be the only ones with these questions. And that’s often true; if you have a question, sometimes people feel silly asking questions, and I always try to remind people, there’s no such thing as a dumb question, and you are definitely not the only one with those questions. So I thought; what would be a cool way that I could help answer these questions for these wonderful people in a way that may help and benefit more folks? So I got to thinking about it, and it’s something that I’ve thought about for a while, about maybe doing some sort of a reverse interview on the Fed and Fit podcast, where I invite people who email me with excellent questions, and I invite them on the show to essentially interview me. They get to ask all their questions, tell a little bit about themselves, and hopefully we can have a dialogue. This may turn into a mini; I don’t know if it’s going to be a mini nutrition coaching, or business coaching, or just overall healthy lifestyle coaching, but whatever it is, it would be fun to have a quick conversation, get it on record with these wonderful people. And I’m so excited to kick it off today with a lovely lady named Tara. She is joining us today, and I’m going to go ahead and turn it over to her to tell us a little bit about herself, and then the show is yours girl. I’m going to let you lead it wherever you want to go, and I am here to just chit chat and answer any of your questions. Take it away! {laughs} Tara: {laughs} Thanks Cassy. Awesome; I’m excited. This is, I think, a really cool step you're taking. I have so many questions; I feel like some are going to be silly, some might be a short answer, some might lead into more questions, but before I jump in; yes, my name is Tara, and I live in Seattle, Washington. Surprise, surprise, I work for Amazon. We have a lot of Amazonians here in the city, but I really enjoy it despite our grey skies and clouds and rains. But it doesn’t rain as much as you think. Cassy Joy: {laughs} Tara: {laughs} I am really inspired by just all of the paleo bloggers and just that lifestyle, living that way. Cassy I think I was listening to your podcast about which pots and pans to be using,

I Love Photography
Gabriela Herman's Rodeo Queens | I Love Photography | Ep. 38 | Nov 7, 2014

I Love Photography

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 7, 2014 36:05


Another week, and another I Love Photography LIVE episode. This week we cover amazing portraits in the heart of the Ebola crisis, "death" photos from Syria and Cambodia, and a wristworn flying drone for taking selfies.  Get the podcast: http://bit.ly/ilovephotoWatch the broadcast: http://bit.ly/ilovephotoyt 0:51 Daniel Berehulak’s Ebola Heroes 5:20 Syrian death photos 6:54 Cambodian death photos 9:46 Felipe Jacome’s portraits of Amazonians fighting big oil 13:47 Gabriela Herman’s Rodeo Queens 16:57 Lumu – the iPhone light meter 20:07 Nixie the drone selfie 23:01 The consequences of working for free – in the circus 29:03 Patrick Demarchelier shoots Jennifer Lawrence for Vanity Fair 32:05 Chance Faulkner hides in trash can for engagement photographer

The Bigfoot Show
BFS 005: Bigfoot Recession

The Bigfoot Show

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 2, 2008 92:53


Recharged and rested following their extended "vacation", Scott, Paul, and Brian discuss the MK Davis bigfoot massacre, uncontacted Amazonians, Javan hippos, and the million dollar Bushnell trailcam award.