Podcasts about irrs

The Margin of Error Has Vanished: What CRE Investors Should Be Watching Now Commentary on a conversation with John Chang, Senior Vice President and National Director, Research and Advisory Services, Marcus & Millichap   The New CRE Investment Mandate: Survive First, Then Thrive “The margin of error has narrowed to virtually zero.” This was John Chang's stark assessment of today's commercial real estate environment – an era marked by fragile capital markets, rising Treasury yields, policy instability, and speculative hangovers from a decade of cheap money. According to Chang, the headline playbook hasn't changed: keep leverage low, maintain reserves, underwrite for downside. But the stakes have changed. What used to be prudent is now required. Those who forget that, particularly those lulled by the long post-GFC bull run, risk extinction.   Cap Rates, Treasury Yields, and the Compressed Spread A central theme of our conversation is the vanishing spread between borrowing costs and asset yields. Cap rates have risen 100–200 bps depending on asset class and geography, but Treasury rates have risen more. That's compressed spreads, rendering most acquisitions reliant on a value-creation story or an eventual rate reversal.   Investors are still transacting, says Chang, but only if they believe they can bridge the spread gap through operational improvements i.e. leasing, renovation, management upgrades. Passive cap-rate arbitrage is no longer viable. “The potential for something to go wrong is high,” Chang warns, especially in a policy environment that remains erratic.   The Treasury Market's Imminent Supply Shock Chang outlines why he expects upward pressure on Treasury yields for the balance of the year – contrary to the market's general expectations of rate cuts. Key reasons: Federal Deficits: With a delayed budget, Treasury issuance has been running below historical norms. That's about to reverse, with $1–1.5 trillion in supply expected by October. Shrinking Buyer Base: The Fed is reducing its balance sheet. Foreign holders, especially China and Japan, are net sellers. Even traditional allies are showing less appetite, driven partly by frictions over U.S. trade policy. Trade Tensions: Tariffs of up to 145% on imports from China, EU saber-rattling, and a broad retreat from globalization are alienating the very buyers of U.S. debt. “People don't want to do us any favors right now,” Chang says. “That uncertainty alone elevates risk premiums.”   Normalcy Bias and the Myth of the Perpetual Up Cycle Chang pulls no punches on the market psychology underpinning risky underwriting in recent years. He describes a bifurcated investor landscape: Those who entered post-GFC and think 2–3% interest rates and infinite rent growth are normal. Veterans of the 1990s S&L crisis, the dot-com bust, or the GFC, who know better. What's striking is the lack of long-term data. Even Marcus & Millichap, he notes, only has robust CRE data going back to 2000. Without context, many have mistaken the tailwind-fueled 2010s as a standard baseline.   “We're back to old-world real estate,” Chang says. “Where you have to actually understand the property, the tenant mix, the microeconomics of location. The era of pure financial engineering is over.”   Lessons from the Pandemic and GFC: Underwrite for Downside, Not for Hype Chang recounts closing on an investment in April 2020 at the very onset of pandemic uncertainty. “What if we rent at breakeven?” he asked. If the answer was yes, he proceeded. That conservative approach worked then and still applies today.   The biggest blow-ups, he says, came from sponsors who: Modeled double-digit rent growth. Over-leveraged. Used floating-rate debt without hedges. Ignored capex and reserves. By contrast, Chang praises sponsors who locked in fixed debt, kept leverage under 65%, and stayed humble. “They're embarrassed to be earning 7% IRRs,” he jokes, “but in this climate, that's a win.”   Washout in the Syndication Space: Good Riddance? Perhaps most damning is Chang's commentary on the wave of underqualified syndicators who entered during the boom years.   “Thousands came in with no operating experience,” he says, pointing to the proliferation of coaching programs offering checklists instead of expertise. These new entrants mimicked industry language – AUM figures, fund manager titles – but often had no institutional track record or risk management skills.   Many of them, Chang believes, are now out or on their way out. And while some may return with hard-earned wisdom, he expects the flow of “tourists” into the syndication world to dry up for the foreseeable future.   Tailwinds Still Exist: But Only for the Well-Prepared Despite the short-term risks, Chang sees multiple long-term tailwinds: Demographics: Millennials are delaying homeownership, renting into their 40s and fueling demand for multifamily. Inflation Resistance: Assets like multifamily, self-storage, and even select retail have pricing power in inflationary environments. Constrained Supply: Rising costs (e.g., lumber, steel tariffs) are slowing new construction, which will support existing asset values over time. He also flags tax policy as a positive surprise: The “BBB” tax bill, now working its way through the House, offers accelerated depreciation and expansion of Opportunity Zones particularly in rural areas. This could buoy returns in an otherwise challenging environment.   On the Aging of America: A Selective Case for Healthcare-Adjacent Assets Chang views medical office and senior housing through a bifurcated lens: Medical office: Attractive if tenants are stable, young, or anchored by heavy equipment. Long leases. Minimal turnover. Durable income. Assisted living: Demographic tailwinds are real, but operators matter more than ever. The Achilles heel? Labor. “About 30% of healthcare workers in the U.S. are foreign-born,” he warns. “And immigration policy, especially under restrictive regimes, will constrain the labor supply.” No staff, no NOI.   Final Signals: What He's Watching Closely If you want to forecast CRE performance, Chang suggests watching: University of Michigan Consumer Sentiment: A leading indicator of retail sales and housing trends. Currently falling. Inflation-adjusted Retail Sales: Shows how real consumption is holding up. Trade Policy & Supreme Court Rulings: The potential invalidation of Trump-era tariffs could reset inflation and Treasury outlooks but introduces a new kind of uncertainty. “We're not facing one black swan,” he concludes. “We're facing a whole flock. Pick your bird.”   Bottom Line This is not a time for heroic assumptions. It's a time for competence, humility, and discipline. If you must deploy capital, do so with sponsors who have been through a major downturn GFC style, and focus on those who didn't make capital calls, who still generate yield, and who underwrite to reality, not to hope.   The next 2–3 years may be rocky. But the long term still belongs to those who survive the short term.   *** In this series, I cut through the noise to examine how shifting macroeconomic forces and rising geopolitical risk are reshaping real estate investing.   With insights from economists, academics, and seasoned professionals, this show helps investors respond to market uncertainty with clarity, discipline, and a focus on downside protection.    Subscribe to my free newsletter for timely updates, insights, and tools to help you navigate today's volatile real estate landscape. You'll get: Straight talk on what happens when confidence meets correction - no hype, no spin, no fluff. Real implications of macro trends for investors and sponsors with actionable guidance. Insights from real estate professionals who've been through it all before. Visit GowerCrowd.com/subscribe Email: adam@gowercrowd.com Call: 213-761-1000

Leyla Kunimoto brings a rare and unfiltered perspective to today's commercial real estate conversation: that of a full-time individual LP who writes publicly about her investment decisions. She's not a sponsor, a capital raiser, or a fund manager; she's an investor allocating her own capital and speaking candidly about what she sees in the market.   Through her newsletter Accredited Investor Insights, Leyla connects with hundreds of other LPs and GPs, giving her a uniquely well-informed view of how sentiment is shifting, how sponsors are adapting (or not), and why many individual investors, herself included, are taking a more cautious, capital-preserving stance in the current environment.   Track Records Are the New Credentials Leyla made one thing immediately clear in my conversation with her: experience across market cycles matters more than ever. Sponsors who lived through the Global Financial Crisis (GFC), and made it out intact, view the world differently. “There's a certain level of conservatism they develop,” she said, that translates into more disciplined underwriting, more thoughtful pacing, and fewer emotionally driven decisions.   This stands in sharp contrast to what Leyla observed in 2020, when billboards at Dallas airports advertised real estate masterminds promising to teach people how to raise capital fast. She watched sponsors pile into deals with razor-thin margins, driven more by optimism than fundamentals. Some of those same players are now facing tough questions from investors.   Tariffs Are Already Affecting CRE in Two Big Ways While many LPs focus on interest rates, Leyla highlighted tariffs as a macro driver that's beginning to affect commercial real estate, particularly in development. First, tariffs are raising costs on imported materials, like lumber, pushing construction budgets higher. Second, she's watching what tariffs could mean for demand in the industrial sector.   “If trade with Mexico declines, what happens to logistics facilities near the border?” she asked. Conversely, if reshoring takes off, we may see demand rise for inland warehouse space. It's a nuanced picture and one that sponsors in ground-up deals can't afford to ignore.   Equity Is Cautious. Retail Capital Is Now in Play. Another shift Leyla is tracking is on the capital side. Institutional equity has pulled back in many corners of the market, and some sponsors are turning to retail LPs for the first time. But this isn't an easy pivot.   “Retail investors are expensive to reach,” she said. They also tend to ask more questions – and now, they're more skeptical. Many LPs are sitting on deals that aren't performing. As a result, the bar for new allocations is much higher. “There's a sense of caution,” she noted. “LPs aren't allocating blindly anymore.”   Floating Rate Debt Divides the Market Leyla sees a bifurcated sponsor landscape: those who are still dealing with the aftermath of floating-rate debt, and those who have the capital and flexibility to transact but can't find deals that pencil.   Sponsors with legacy floating-rate loans are focused on rate caps and marginal cash flow. They're rooting for the Fed to cut rates. Others are hunting for acquisitions, but the math isn't working. “Without aggressive assumptions, most deals don't pencil,” she said.   The IRR Illusion: What LPs Should Actually Be Watching Many sponsors still lead with IRR projections, but Leyla has shifted her mindset. “I don't screen for how much money I'm going to make. I don't screen for the IRR probability,” she told me, “the only thing I'm laser beam focused on when I evaluate private placement deals is the probability of losing money.”   That loss-aversion lens changes everything. She believes LPs are better off compounding modest, positive returns over time than chasing double-digit IRRs that come with a real chance of loss. “Making 3-4% positive IRR for 10 years straight outperforms hitting 20% on some deals and going to zero on others,” she said.   Stress Tests Are Private. Optimism Is Public. Behind closed doors, sponsors are more conservative than they let on, she says. The real pros run multiple models – best, worst, and most likely scenarios. “I always ask for stress test scenarios underwritten to the GFC,” she says, continuing that she used to hear sponsors saying such scenarios were never going to play out because the underwriting is too stringent. “I'm hearing a little bit less of that now,” she says.   Still, she's skeptical of any deck that doesn't acknowledge the possibility of a rent decline. Of course deals won't pencil if you underwrite to a 10% rent drop but, in some markets, that's exactly what's happening.   Cash Is a Position. Waiting Is a Strategy. When I asked what she'd do if handed a $1 million windfall today, Leyla didn't hesitate: “I'd keep it in cash and I would try to get very narrow on what my buy box is,” not because she's fearful but because she wants to be surgical when she deploys.   She encourages LPs to be patient and wait for opportunities that fit tight criteria. In an environment where you can make 4.5%+ tax and risk-free, “there's no harm in waiting,” she says. She also shared stories of seasoned sponsors that sold early, sat in cash through the entire 2021 run-up, and are still waiting because they can't find deals that pencil – that are still too expensive for prudent investors.   What Leyla's Watching Now Leyla doesn't try to predict markets. But she does monitor signals: The 10-Year Treasury yield Local supply pipelines Investor sentiment from her network of LPs And her biggest piece of advice? Focus on not losing money. That alone will make you a better investor.   *** In this series, I cut through the noise to examine how shifting macroeconomic forces and rising geopolitical risk are reshaping real estate investing.   With insights from economists, academics, and seasoned professionals, this show helps investors respond to market uncertainty with clarity, discipline, and a focus on downside protection.    Subscribe to my free newsletter for timely updates, insights, and tools to help you navigate today's volatile real estate landscape. You'll get: Straight talk on what happens when confidence meets correction - no hype, no spin, no fluff. Real implications of macro trends for investors and sponsors with actionable guidance. Insights from real estate professionals who've been through it all before. Visit GowerCrowd.com/subscribe Email: adam@gowercrowd.com Call: 213-761-1000

How to Survive the Coming Real Estate Storm – What Sean Kelly-Rand Learned at Lehman   For the experienced real estate investor or sponsor, this is a masterclass in what really matters.   When Lehman Brothers unraveled in 2008, it exposed a truth that many in the real estate world still prefer to ignore: even the most sophisticated capital structures can implode when the cost of capital and access to liquidity are misunderstood – or worse, taken for granted. My podcast/YouTube show guest today, Sean Kelly-Rand, didn't just watch that collapse unfold; he lived through it from inside and the playbook he uses today as the managing partner of RD Advisors is shaped, in part, by that early, formative experience.   His approach offers a deeply pragmatic framework for anyone navigating real estate in today's uncertain climate. In an era of overpromised alpha and fragile capital stacks, Kelly-Rand's doctrine is a study in restraint, structure, and staying power.   From the Heart of Lehman to the Edges of Risk   Kelly-Rand joined Lehman Brothers in 2006, just before the implosion, drawn by its dominance in the bond markets which he saw, even then, as the true engine behind real estate. While most looked to equity investment banks for leadership, he understood that the debt markets were where real decisions were made. His work centered on real estate financing and syndication, with a front-row view of a business model that was, in hindsight, structurally doomed.   Lehman's capital stack had been stretched too far – built on short-term funding to support long-term positions. As the firm accumulated assets, expanding its real estate exposure from $5 billion to over $36 billion, it did so with virtually no cushion. Liquidity was cheap and ubiquitous, but inherently unstable. When securitization markets seized up, those long-term assets could not be offloaded without catastrophic discounts to book value. And because any sale would have forced a full repricing of the entire book, no sale could be tolerated. Lehman was stuck – and the system broke.   That lesson remains central to Kelly-Rand's thinking today. The real issue wasn't the quality of the assets; it was the fragility of the structure behind them. Risk wasn't in the deal. It was in the funding.   Rebuilding from the Ground Up   In the years that followed, Kelly-Rand transitioned from the institutional capital markets to operating in the private lending space. He co-founded RD Advisors not just to chase yield, but also to build a firm capable of weathering downside scenarios – starting with a clean-sheet design of its capital strategy.   The fund today focuses exclusively on senior secured debt, kept short in duration and conservatively underwritten. The business avoids the artificial stability of interest reserves or payment-in-kind structures that mask actual performance. Instead, it emphasizes cash-paying borrowers and short-term duration to preserve optionality and liquidity. Leverage is kept modest by design, with loan-to-value ratios structured around exit values that tolerate declining markets. Crucially, every deal is evaluated with a focus on capital preservation. Underwriting is done not with optimism, but with contingency: would the fund be comfortable owning the asset if they had to should a borrower walk? If the answer is anything but a clear yes, the deal doesn't proceed.   This mentality isn't just prudent, it's essential. The goal is to never rely on someone else's execution for one's own capital security. And that institutional memory from the GFC sits the core of the process.   Avoiding the Illusion of Alpha   Much of what passes for outperformance in today's real estate environment is simply leverage in disguise. Sponsors show high IRRs, but beneath them is a capital structure dependent on favorable refis or asset appreciation that may no longer be achievable. That's not skill, it's exposure.   Kelly-Rand's fund's returns, by contrast, are deliberately boring. They are stable, predictable, and quarterly. It's a feature, not a bug. In fact, Kelly-Rand views volatility as a symptom of poor underwriting or misaligned structure, not a badge of aggressive performance.   He's wary, too, of the growing interest in ‘loan-to-own' strategies, particularly among opportunistic capital looking to buy defaulted notes in the hopes of acquiring assets at a discount. While technically accurate – private credit can convert into equity when things go wrong – he emphasizes that building a business around that premise introduces operational complexity, execution risk, and volatility that neither he nor his investors are seeking.   Today's Market Echoes the Last Crisis   What concerns Kelly-Rand most now is how little has changed in institutional behavior since the last crisis – and how closely today's market echoes that of 2007.   There is the same creeping complacency in the banking system. Institutions are holding loans at par that would clear far below face value if sold today. Marking one loan down would trigger writedowns across the portfolio, and many banks simply can't handle that. Instead, they hold and wait, even as rates rise and deposits become more expensive than the loans on their books. This, too, is unsustainable and, like last time, it's a question not of credit risk, but of duration mismatch and funding fragility. Depositors have not yet realized en masse that their money could be earning 4.5% elsewhere. But when they do, the cost of capital for banks could spike rapidly and the system isn't ready.   Worse still, foreign capital, the marginal buyer that has helped sustain U.S. real estate valuations for decades, may be losing interest. If geopolitical or currency instability weakens demand for U.S. treasuries or assets, long-term rates could drift higher, even if the Fed cuts short-term rates. That shift would have a profound impact on real estate pricing, permanently resetting cap-rate expectations – and values.   A Framework for the Informed Investor   The takeaway for sponsors and investors is stark but empowering: you don't need to predict the next crash, but you must be structurally prepared for it.   Kelly-Rand's fund is an expression of that principle. It's structured to be resilient, not just profitable. Its margins are modest but consistent. Its leverage is low by design. And its underwriting focuses on the downside – not because of fear, but because of discipline. His experience at Lehman Brothers gave him a visceral understanding of how quickly capital evaporates when confidence is lost. What makes his insights so valuable today is not just that he's survived a cycle but that he's operationalized that survival into a repeatable, durable framework.   In a world where risk is increasingly hidden behind optimism and spreadsheets, Sean Kelly-Rand offers a different kind of edge: memory.   *** In this series, I cut through the noise to examine how shifting macroeconomic forces and rising geopolitical risk are reshaping real estate investing.   With insights from economists, academics, and seasoned professionals, this show helps investors respond to market uncertainty with clarity, discipline, and a focus on downside protection.    Subscribe to my free newsletter for timely updates, insights, and tools to help you navigate today's volatile real estate landscape. You'll get: Straight talk on what happens when confidence meets correction - no hype, no spin, no fluff. Real implications of macro trends for investors and sponsors with actionable guidance. Insights from real estate professionals who've been through it all before. Visit GowerCrowd.com/subscribe Email: adam@gowercrowd.com Call: 213-761-1000

What makes one investor's offer stand out over another's—even when the numbers look the same?   In this episode, Angel hosts Fernando Arias and Anna Latysheva for a detailed walkthrough of how underwriting variables impact real estate valuations, investor returns, and bidding strategies. They examine the unseen levers—like DSCR, interest rates, amortization schedules, and capital expenditures—that can shift IRRs dramatically. With real-world scenarios and expert commentary, this episode provides valuable insights for both novice and seasoned investors navigating a tightening lending environment.     [00:01 - 04:14] Why Debt Terms Change the Game The significance of DSCR in determining actual loan amounts—not just LTV assumptions How interest rates and loan terms affect down payments and investor returns The need to build strong banking relationships for accurate underwriting inputs   [04:15 - 08:44] The Impact of Amortization on IRR What amortization periods reveal about monthly debt service and deal feasibility Why a higher down payment reduces IRR—even if the NOI stays constant The importance of recalculating purchase offers based on updated debt quotes   [08:45 - 13:28] Expense Assumptions That Can Break a Deal How slight changes in operating expenses significantly affect valuation The importance of classifying capital expenditures below the line Why expense accuracy is essential in low-cap markets   [13:29 - 18:00] Income Projections vs. Market Realities Why underwriting based on realistic rent comps boosts your competitiveness The significance of local PM data over online averages like Rentometer How fluctuating lending terms can lead to broken contracts   [18:01 - 23:40] Cap Rates, Risk, and Investor Psychology Why understanding cap rate spreads is essential for valuation decisions The relationship between NOI, cap rate, and perceived asset risk How market psychology and alternative income streams influence investor behavior       Connect with Anna:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ibuybuildings/   Connect with Fernando:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fernandoapartments/     Key Quotes:   “Just because your pro forma shows a 1.89 DSCR a year from now doesn't mean the bank will underwrite that way.” - Fernando Arias   “Every $1,000 in NOI can mean a $20,000 swing in valuation in low-cap markets.” - Anna Latysheva     Visit sponsorcloud.io/contact today and unlock $2,000 of free services exclusively for REI Rocks community members! Get automated syndication and investor relationship management tools to save time and money. Mention your part of the REI Rocks community for exclusive offers. Help make affordable, low-cost education summits possible. Check out Sponsor Cloud today!

What is the state of syndications today? How to structure a syndication for protection purposes? Major differences between funds vs syndications and why are funds popular today? Jonathan Tavares, Managing Partner at Premier Law Group, shares his insights. Read the entire interview here: https://tinyurl.com/25hhhjsfWhat is the state of the market today? What are the IRRs looking like? Are you seeing more or fewer deals come across your desk?There has been a shift to funds in the last 6-8 mos. Traditionally, especially during COVID, a lot of clients were doing a lot of multifamily syndication. Now, granted, that's been a piece that we focused on for a long time. A lot of our clients are heavily involved in the multifamily space, but with increasing interest rates over 22 and various other factors, property taxes throughout many counties and throughout the country, going up very quickly, as well as insurance and specific markets. We have a lot of clients in various markets in Texas that have just gone crazy, places like Houston or Florida, where insurance rates have skyrocketed. It's presented some challenges for some of our clients. Instead of seeing just a straight deal with a certain percentage of debt somewhere around 70- 80%, a lot of times, there's a lot of creative financing going on to make up for that debt piece that may not be there or where those percentages of debt to purchase price may be a little bit lower than what a lot of clients were used to before.You see a lot of preferred equity. We've seen clients building out structures where, in essence, they're providing almost a debt structure to their investors too, to create a sort of debt piece as well as an equity piece in their raises. We've seen a lot of clients create funds and use their funds to come in for part of the debt piece for specific projects as well.Depending on the asset type, and I'll specifically exclude development projects, we're seeing a lot of target IRRs between 15 and 20% generally.Where do all the LLCs go for a syndication so that everyone is protected as much as they can possibly be?There's all sorts of different structures that you might use to set up a syndication or a fund and for different reasons, for tax reasons, for asset protection reasons, etc. A typical syndication structure is going to include a syndication entity, and that's typically known as the issuer entity, that's the entity that's selling securities.Why does the SEC care about what I'm doing if I'm raising capital to go buy real estate? The Supreme Court came up with a test that's called the Howie test. The SEC does an analysis to determine if you were selling securities or not, and essentially boils down to the four main tenets of the Howie test:1) Is an investor investing money? Typically, the answer is yes.2) Are they expecting some sort of return on profits? And usually the answer is yes.3) Whether the efforts are generated by someone other than the person who's investing, like some sort of promoter, or in the space we call a sponsor. In these deals, a sponsor where a GP that is raising the capital from investors. The investors are passive in the deal. 4) A common enterprise is if the investors are pooling together capital through the efforts of the GP to buy some sort of underlying investments. That's typically going to be real estate.Jonathan Tavares(508) 212-1193jonathan@plglp.comwww.premierlawgroup.netJoin our investor list at https://montecarlorei.com/investors/

Fifth Wall's Brendan Wallace and CBRE's Connor Hall explore innovation in commercial real estate, from flexible workspaces to AI-driven investment strategies.Share these insights on proptech investing: · Investing in PropTech, like all venture capital investments – is high risk and high reward. Investors typically underwrite 40%+ internal rates of return (IRRs), betting that a few transformative companies succeed and compensate for those that fail. · Investing in PropTech provides early access to innovations that enhance asset performance, reduce costs and create competitive differentiation. · Artificial intelligence is expected to improve underwriting, asset selection and risk modeling for real estate investors. Those that adopt AI-driven tools early may gain a significant edge. · The initial public offering (IPO) market has slowed, but standout exits like ServiceTitan show that public capital is still available for top-tier companies. Investors in private companies should be prepared for longer holding periods prior to exits. · The most investable PropTech companies are those that solve challenges for real estate in operations, capital markets, risk management and elsewhere. Deep industry knowledge is key to identifying winners.

In this episode, James sits down with Paces colleagues Kyle Baranko and Tony Wagler to discuss their new white paper, “Pre-Development at Scale: Modeling Risk in Early-Stage Solar Development”. They dive into how AI, probabilistic methods, and standardized development workflows can dramatically reduce soft costs and increase project success rates.Kyle shares how Monte Carlo simulations were used to model development risks and timelines, while Tony outlines the four key archetypes—environmental, permitting, design, and interconnection—that shape project outcomes. They explain how early de-risking leads to faster decisions, improved IRRs, and better positioning in incentive programs.Other topics include:Why 70–90% of post-site control projects failThe power of failing fast and cutting development timelines by up to 50%How automation preserves data integrity while saving timeReal-world feedback from developers and IPPsA new interactive tool to explore portfolio-level risksWhether you're a solar developer, investor, or curious about energy infrastructure, this conversation offers practical insights into the future of clean energy project planning.Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Show Notes: Venture Blues: Cloud, Silver LiningOverviewThis week's “Venture Blues” editorial brings into focus a brewing transformation in early-stage venture capital. As funds endure stretched timelines and mounting LP pressure, long-taboo secondary markets are stepping into the limelight. At the same time, traditional VC structures—anchored to power-law home runs and decade-long illiquidity—are under fresh scrutiny.What makes this collection compelling is its blend of on-the-ground investor testimony (from Dan Gray, Hunter Walk, Rob Hodgkinson) and hard data (Carta charts, Series B MOIC trends) that together sketch a venture asset class at a crossroads: can it engineer better liquidity and more dependable returns without sacrificing outsized upside?Key Trend 1: The Liquidity Imperative and Rise of SecondariesAs portfolio companies stall in late-stage rounds, early-stage VCs and LPs alike are waking up to the need for earlier liquidity—and rediscovering secondaries.Why it matters:– Stigma around selling GP stakes is eroding when 10-year fund cycles stretch toward 15 years.– Liquidity becomes critical to meet IRR targets and redeploy capital.Talking Point 1: From Taboo to ToolboxQuote:“The obvious desperation for liquidity has — for now — removed the stigma associated with secondaries.”— Dan Gray's X postEarly-stage managers, once loath to let shares go, now view secondaries as a legitimate value-preservation tactic.Removing psychological barriers makes secondaries a core liquidity channel, not just a last-resort option.Talking Point 2: Fund Cycles Stretch, LP Calculations ShiftQuote:“For the earliest funds (pre-seed, seed) this means instead of 10 year fund cycles for LPs, you're seeing closer to 15, which fundamentally changes LP calculations about the asset class.”— Hunter Walk, HomebrewLonger holding periods erode IRRs and cash-on-cash returns.LPs factor in delayed distributions, pressing GPs to surface secondary opportunities sooner.Key Trend 2: Structural Challenges in Traditional VC ModelsDespite aggregate Series B investments growing 476% over eight years, most value remains on paper—and out of reach.Why it matters:– Healthy MOIC doesn't equate to real cash returns.– Most LPs lack access to top-performing funds and can't live off latent value.Talking Point 1: MOIC vs. Cash—The Distribution DilemmaQuote:“And the 4.76x is measured in MOIC, not cash, so was not distributed.”— Venture Blues editorialVenture's celebrated power law produces massive paper returns skewed toward a handful of winners.Without distributions, LPs can't recycle gains, creating a false sense of asset-class health.Talking Point 2: Concentration of Compelling ManagersQuote:“Most LPs do not get returns, and certainly not liquid returns (the only real kind).”— Venture Blues editorialA small club of star GPs capture most performance.Broader LP community remains exposed to illiquidity without average outcome participation.Key Trend 3: Rethinking the LP Base and Investor AlignmentEconomic uncertainty is forcing a recalibration of who backs VC—and how.Why it matters:– Traditional LPs (endowments, pensions) face funding pressures.– New entrants (sovereign wealth, retail, alternatives platforms) demand different structures.Talking Point 1: Endowment Exodus to SecondariesQuote:“A harbinger of change is Yale, who pioneered the ‘endowment model'… selling $6 bn in its PE portfolio in secondaries for the first time.”— Rob HodgkinsonEndowments under the gun from taxes, tariff impacts and political hostility.Liquid strategies gain priority, reshaping demand for evergreen and secondary vehicles.Talking Point 2: LP Preferences Shape Fund ProductsQuote:“VC is changing. Venture firms need to rethink not just who they raise from, but how their LP base influences what they're offering.”— Rob HodgkinsonA move toward evergreen, co-invest, direct, and secondary funds rather than classic 10-year vehicles.Funds must tailor structures to new LP appetites for liquidity and risk profiles.Key Trend 4: Emerging Structures for De-Risked, Liquid VC InvestmentsAlgorithmic selection and private-company indexes promise to lower risk, broaden access and embed liquidity.Why it matters:– De-couples returns from a small set of GPs and rare unicorns.– Creates tradable vehicles for average VC outcomes.Talking Point 1: Filtering the 7% That MatterQuote:“Investing in this 7% as an index gives investors the ability to participate in de-risked average outcomes.”— Venture Blues editorialData and machine learning reject 93% of Series B rounds.The top 7% deliver 6.2x MOIC in five years, enabling an index tilted for performance.Talking Point 2: Liquidity by DesignQuote:“There is no longer a dependency on which fund an LP can invest in… And liquidity is built into the index approach.”— Venture Blues editorialIndex shares can be bought and sold once listed on public markets.Retail investors and non-traditional allocators gain direct VC exposure.Discussion QuestionsHow has the elongation of fund cycles from 10 to 15 years altered LPs' appetite for early-stage VC?Can the rise of secondaries truly resolve liquidity challenges, or does it merely shift them to later rounds?With secondaries becoming “primary” for early-stage VCs, is there a risk of misaligned incentives between GPs and founders?How might new LP entrants (retail platforms, sovereign wealth funds) reshape venture fundraising and governance?Is algorithmic selection and index-based investing a silver bullet for de-risking VC, or does it introduce new systemic biases?Is the core issue in venture the lack of liquidity or the inherent power-law structure forcing “home runs”?What unintended consequences could emerge from tradable private-company indexes?Closing SegmentVenture Blues reveals an asset class in flux: the thirst for liquidity is rewriting norms, LPs are demanding new structures, and data-driven models offer a glimpse at more equitable, de-risked returns. As we watch secondaries soar and index products emerge, the central question remains: can VC evolve beyond its 70-year blueprint to deliver both outsized growth and true liquidity?Final thought: the silver lining in today's venture clouds may be a fundamentally redesigned asset class that finally brings average, liquid outcomes within reach.Stay tuned as we track which of these trends will reshape the venture landscape for good. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thatwastheweek.com/subscribe

Send us a message!On this CHATS segment of the "Financial Perspectives" podcast, William Reynolds hosts a dynamic conversation with Josh Hile - CEO of Citizen Mint - as they explore how impact investing in private markets is transforming the investment landscape by delivering competitive financial returns while addressing critical global challenges. The traditional investment paradigm has long separated profit-seeking activities from philanthropic endeavors—but that's changing rapidly. Josh explains how younger investors are rejecting this binary approach, instead seeking investments that generate returns while creating positive outcomes for society and the environment. This shift coincides with extraordinary market opportunities in sectors addressing urgent needs like renewable energy infrastructure, affordable housing, and innovative private equity structures.We dive deep into the compelling risk-return profiles of impact investments that challenge common misconceptions. Renewable infrastructure investments typically deliver 12-14% returns with half the volatility of public markets. Affordable housing can achieve 15% IRRs with remarkably stable tenancy and recession-resistant characteristics. These aren't concessionary investments—they're powerful portfolio diversifiers that happen to create meaningful positive change.The conversation explores how artificial intelligence is dramatically reshaping energy demands, creating unprecedented opportunities in sustainable infrastructure. By 2030, US data centers alone will become the sixth-largest energy consumer globally, driving massive capital deployment toward renewable energy solutions.Whether you're an experienced investor or just beginning to explore how your portfolio can reflect your values, this episode provides actionable insights into an investment approach that refuses to compromise between purpose and profit. Listen now to discover how private market impact investments could transform your portfolio while helping address society's most pressing challenges.If you'd like to learn more about the show, have a topic or speaker to suggest, or would like to leave us a comment, email podcast@cfa-sf.org. This podcast is produced by CFA Society San Francisco, a not-for-profit professional association, providing professional learning and career resources to over 13,000 investment industry professionals worldwide. To learn more about CFA Society San Francisco, visit our website or connect with us on LinkedIn.The information contained in this podcast does not constitute financial or investment advice. Please consult your own financial advisor for information concerning your specific situation.

Welcome back to The Private Equity Podcast, by Raw Selection. In this week's episode, Alex Rawlings speaks with Cari Lodge, a seasoned investor with 25 years in private equity secondaries. They explore the market's rapid growth from $2 billion to $160 billion, the increasing need for liquidity, and how secondaries optimize portfolio management. Cari discusses GP-led secondaries, continuation funds, and the market's evolution, offering key insights into future opportunities in this space. Breakdown: [00:00] Introduction to the episode and guest, Cari Lodge, Managing Director and Head of Secondaries at CF Private Equity.[00:28] Cari's background, her start in secondaries, and how the market has expanded from $2 billion to $160 billion.[01:45] Common mistake in private equity: Holding assets too long. How increasing holding periods from 5.7 years to 6.7 years impacts returns.[03:34] Why firms miss exit opportunities. The importance of DPI and how delaying exits can lead to the same returns years later.[04:29] Explanation of secondaries for newcomers. The role of LP secondaries, GP-led solutions, and the growing demand for liquidity.[06:53] The benefits of secondaries for investors, including diversification, shorter duration, and strong IRRs and ROIs.[08:49] Demand for GP-led secondaries, continuation funds, and LP transactions. How secondaries are now part of active portfolio management.[10:42] The future of secondaries. Market expected to grow from $160 billion to $200–220 billion in 2024, but constrained by capital and human resources.[12:33] Challenges holding the market back. Capital constraints, lack of resources, and evolving perceptions of secondaries.[14:21] Why Cari loves the secondaries market. Exposure to 1,200+ private equity funds, constant evolution, and a collaborative industry.[17:12] Key trends in private equity. The impact of higher interest rates, valuations, and the growing focus on liquidity solutions.[20:32] Secondaries' role in providing liquidity. Now contributing 15–20% of total private equity liquidity.[22:28] How secondaries adapt to market cycles. Benefits in both up and down markets, shifting from a distress play to a mainstream strategy.[23:22] Cari's recommended reads: The Economist, Private Equity Analyst, and What It Takes by Steve Schwarzman.[25:14] How to reach Cari Lodge. Best contact method: LinkedIn.[25:45] Closing thoughts. Recap of insights and encouragement to subscribe to The Private Equity Podcast.Thank you for tuning in! Connect with Cari here. To get the newest Private Equity episodes, you can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify here.Lastly, if you have any feedback on the podcast or want to reach out to Alex with any questions, send an email to alex.rawlings@raw-selection.com.

For this episode of the DCF Show podcast, host Matt Vincent, Editor in Chief of Data Center Frontier, is joined by Santiago Suinaga, CEO of Infrastructure Masons (iMasons), to explore the urgent challenges of scaling data center construction while maintaining sustainability commitments, among other pertinent industry topics. The AI Race and Responsible Construction "Balancing scale and sustainability is key because the AI race is real," Suinaga emphasizes. "Forecasted capacities have skyrocketed to meet AI demand. Hyperscale end users and data center developers are deploying high volumes to secure capacity in an increasingly constrained global market." This surge in demand pressures the industry to build faster than ever before. Yet, as Suinaga notes, speed and sustainability must go hand in hand. "The industry must embrace a build fast, build smart mentality. Leveraging digital twin technology, AI-driven design optimization, and circular economy principles is critical." Sustainability, he argues, should be embedded at every stage of new builds, from integrating low-carbon materials to optimizing energy efficiency from the outset. "We can't afford to compromise sustainability for speed. Instead, we must integrate renewable energy sources and partner with local governments, utilities, and energy providers to accelerate responsible construction." A key example of this thinking is peak shaving—using redundant infrastructure and idle capacities to power the grid when data center demand is low. "99.99% of the time, this excess capacity can support local communities, while ensuring the data center retains prioritized energy supply when needed." Addressing Embodied Carbon and Supply Chain Accountability Decarbonization is a cornerstone of iMasons' efforts, particularly through the iMasons Climate Accord. Suinaga highlights the importance of tackling embodied carbon—the emissions embedded in data center construction materials and IT hardware. "We need standardized reporting metrics and supplier accountability to drive meaningful change," he says. "Greater transparency across the supply chain can be achieved through carbon labeling of materials and stricter procurement policies." To mitigate embodied emissions, companies should prioritize suppliers with validated Environmental Product Declarations (EPDs) and invest in low-carbon alternatives like green concrete and recycled steel. "Collaboration across the industry will be essential to drive policy incentives for greener supply chains," Suinaga asserts. The Role of Modular and Prefabricated Builds As the industry seeks more efficient construction methods, modular and prefabricated builds are emerging as game changers. "They significantly reduce construction waste, improve quality control, and shorten deployment times," Suinaga explains. "By shifting a large portion of the build process to controlled environments, we can improve worker safety and optimize material usage. Companies leveraging prefabrication will gain a competitive edge in both cost savings and sustainability." Modular construction also presents financial advantages. "It allows for deferred CapEx investments, creating attractive internal rates of return (IRRs) for investors while reducing the risk of oversupply by aligning capacity with demand," Suinaga notes. However, he acknowledges that the approach has challenges, including potential supply chain constraints and quick time-to-market pressures during demand spikes. "Maintaining a recurrent production cycle and closely monitoring market conditions are key to ensuring capacity planning aligns with real-time needs." Innovation in Cooling and Water Use With AI workloads driving increasing power densities, the industry is rapidly shifting toward liquid cooling, immersion cooling, and heat reuse strategies. "We're seeing innovations in direct-to-chip cooling and closed-loop water systems that significantly reduce water consumption," Suinaga says. "Some data centers are capturing and repurposing waste heat to provide energy to nearby facilities—an approach that needs to be scaled." Immersion cooling, he adds, offers the potential to shrink data center footprints and dramatically improve Power Usage Effectiveness (PUE). "A hybrid approach combining air and liquid cooling is key," Suinaga explains. "There's still uncertainty around the right mix of technologies, as hyperscalers need to support not just AI but also continued cloud growth. Flexibility in cooling design is now essential to accommodate a diverse range of workloads." Regulatory Pressures and the Future of Sustainability Standards Regulatory frameworks such as the SEC's climate disclosure rules and Europe's Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD) are pushing data center operators toward greater transparency. Suinaga believes these measures will enforce more accurate sustainability reporting and drive greener investment decisions. "This will push data center operators to adopt more energy-efficient designs early in the planning phase and, in the long term, standardize carbon reporting and create incentives for sustainable practices," he explains. He also highlights the role of investors and publicly traded companies in enforcing stricter climate reporting requirements across their portfolios. "At iMasons, we are refining existing reporting benchmarks and frameworks to provide the industry with a holistic view of best practices. This is an area where we aim to support data center operators with an analytical approach." The Road to Net Zero: Overcoming Challenges Despite ambitious net zero goals, execution remains a significant challenge. "The biggest roadblock to net zero is the availability of truly carbon-free energy and materials at scale," Suinaga states. Achieving net zero requires substantial investment in renewable infrastructure, grid connectivity improvements, and energy storage innovation. To accelerate progress, he emphasizes the importance of adopting circular economy practices, advocating for renewable energy policy support, and investing in next-generation cooling and power technologies. "The demand from AI is outpacing current power infrastructure and renewable options. While some net zero commitments may be delayed, investing in new technologies and clean energy solutions will ultimately put us back on the path to net zero." Workforce Development and Addressing the Talent Shortage The digital infrastructure industry has long faced a talent shortage, which has only become more urgent as demand increases. To help address this challenge, iMasons has launched a new job-matching platform. "It's designed to bridge the talent gap by connecting skilled professionals with opportunities in digital infrastructure," Suinaga explains. "For job seekers, it's free to use, providing a streamlined way to match with job listings based on skills, experience, and location." For employers, iMasons partners gain access to the platform to find vetted candidates efficiently. "At the pace this industry is growing, the current workforce isn't enough—we need to bring in talent from other industries and create new career pathways. Digital infrastructure is recession-proof and offers tremendous opportunities for growth." Industry Partnerships Driving Innovation iMasons has been expanding its partnerships, adding 15 new partners in recent months. "We've welcomed companies from various backgrounds, including AI-driven construction management firms, energy-related companies, and cooling solution providers," Suinaga shares. "iMasons is a hub for industry collaboration, helping to drive innovation across the entire digital infrastructure ecosystem. Our mission is simple: to ensure the industry thrives." Looking Ahead As AI accelerates the demand for digital infrastructure, the industry must embrace innovative, responsible strategies to balance scale with sustainability. iMasons, alongside major players in the sector, is committed to ensuring the next generation of data centers are not just fast to deploy but also environmentally responsible.

Discover how Ben Kogut successfully raised over $114M for triple net lease properties. With a focus on steady cash flow and reduced risk, Ben takes us inside the world of triple net leases and how these investments have become a powerful alternative to traditional asset classes like multifamily. Learn how Ben has strategically scaled his business to over $354M in assets, using creative deal-making strategies and a unique approach to tenant relationships. Tune in now to discover how Ben's insights can help you make smarter, more profitable investments! 5 Key Take-aways to learn from this episode:Triple Net Lease Benefits: Triple net leases (NNN) offer stable, predictable cash flow with minimal landlord responsibilities. Tenants cover property taxes, insurance, and maintenance, making these investments less risky compared to other real estate asset classes like multifamily.The Importance of Tenant Credit: When investing in triple net properties, it's crucial to evaluate the tenant's creditworthiness. High-credit tenants, such as national retailers or government offices, provide greater stability and reduce investment risk.Creative Deal Structuring: Ben emphasizes the power of creativity in structuring deals, such as negotiating extended lease terms to increase property value or using AI tools to evaluate the viability of locations. This approach can significantly improve returns for investors.Syndication Structure and Investor Focus: Rooster Equity Partners typically uses an 8% preferred return and a 50/50 split on profits after that, focusing on providing stable cash flow to investors from day one. The firm also targets upper teen to low 20% IRRs, emphasizing cash-on-cash returns over long-term projections.Building Relationships for Investment Growth: Ben attributes much of his success to building strong, personal relationships with investors. Hosting intimate dinners, providing educational content, and maintaining trust and transparency are core strategies for growing his investor base.About Tim MaiTim Mai is a real estate investor, fund manager, mentor, and founder of HERO Mastermind for REI coaches.He has helped many real estate investors and coaches become millionaires. Tim continues to help busy professionals earn income and build wealth through passive investing.He is also a creative marketer and promoter with incredible knowledge and experience, which he freely shares. He has lifted himself from the aftermath of war, achieving technical expertise in computers, followed by investment success in real estate, management skills, and a lofty position among real estate educators and internet marketers.Tim is an industry leader who has acquired and exited well over $50 million worth of real estate and is currently an investor in over 2700 units of multifamily apartments.Connect with TimWebsite: Capital Raising PartyFacebook: Tim Mai | Capital Raising Nation Instagram: @timmaicomTwitter: @timmaiLinkedIn: Tim MaiYouTube: Tim Mai

What are Sara Sobets' new investments? Financial markets are missing out on female founders and women-owned companies. Todays guest Mareauline Böhm talks about her love to law and way to her third love. Hear Michaela Berglund and Mareauline Böhm discuss why investing in women-led businesses is driving high IRRs and how Feminvest Ventures is making its first fund investment. Follow Feminvest on Instagram @feminvest https://www.instagram.com/feminvest/ And buy tickets to Fearless Stockholm on our website https://www.feminvest.se/

The best credit opportunity lies in middle-market collateralized loan obligation equity, according to Carlyle. “It is a newer market and not everyone’s investing and chasing that asset class,” said Lauren Basmadjian, the firm’s global head of liquid credit. “We’re seeing mid-to-high teens IRRs,” Basmadjian tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’s Mike Campellone in the latest Credit Edge podcast. That compares to 12%-13% internal rates of return from CLOs backed by broadly syndicated loans, she adds. Basmadjian and Campellone also discuss growing risk from liability management exercises, private/public debt convergence, default rates, M&A and European leveraged loan market opportunities.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What does wakeboarding have in common with real estate? My guest this week, Austin Hair, is an expert at connecting the dots between these two careers.    In today's show, he discusses how he transitioned from being a professional wakeboarder to becoming the Managing Partner at Leaders Real Estate, where he raises capital for his own healthcare real estate acquisitions. Austin is also exploring the ‘capital allocator' model as the next stage in his career and shares insights he's gained about that approach.   Deal Structure   Having attended several real estate and business masterminds, Austin has identified three key roles in a fund: the fund manager (largely administrative), the ‘expert investor' (more commonly known as the sponsor or operator), and the capital raiser (the role Austin plays).   Austin's approach is to seek opportunities where these roles split the General Partner economics equally, one-third each, or at least where the capital raiser earns a pro-rata share of the GP economics based on the proportion of equity raised relative to the project's total equity requirement.   Target Deal Criteria   Austin prefers deals in the $14-$15 million acquisition range that require approximately $5 million in equity and is comfortable raising $500,000-$1 million per deal.   He seeks sponsors with a minimum of 5+ years and 5+ deals of experience, avoids first-time sponsors aiming to raise large funds (up to $100 million), and is skeptical of sponsors projecting unrealistic IRRs (70%+) preferring, instead, deals with IRRs of 15-18%, which he considers more realistic.   Austin is particularly drawn to healthcare real estate, especially dental practices, as his research shows they have some of the lowest tenant default rates, making them a safer investment option.   Challenges and Lessons Learned   Listen to this episode to hear Austin discuss the biggest challenges he has faced in raising capital and to learn about the single most effective way he has found to connect with more investors for his fund.   *** Explore the world of real estate capital allocators—a fresh approach to financing that's reshaping the industry.   In this series, I talk with allocators, investors, sponsors, and service providers to give you an inside look at this fast-growing space.   PLUS, subscribe to my free newsletter for real estate investors and gain access to: * Introductions to sponsors, allocators, and investment opportunities. * Insights drawn from my 30+ years of experience in real estate investing. * Hacks and tactics for raising capital to help you scale your real estate portfolio.   Visit GowerCrowd.com/subscribe

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Amanda Cruise and Ash Patel interview Jason Adams, owner and president of Signal Ventures, who shares his extensive experience in real estate development, particularly in self-storage and light industrial properties. Jason discusses the current state of the self-storage market, the intricacies of ground-up development, financial insights, and marketing strategies for stabilization. He also delves into adaptive reuse projects and the potential of existing facilities, while reflecting on his past experiences and future plans in the real estate sector.   Sponsors: Altra Running

Amanda and Ash welcome Matthew Ricciardella, the principal and managing partner of Crystal View Capital. Matthew shares his journey from residential flipping to managing over 25,000 units in mobile home parks and self-storage facilities. He discusses the importance of passive income, key performance indicators in management, and the strategies he employs to source off-market deals. Matthew also highlights the impressive returns his funds have delivered to investors and the challenges of navigating a competitive market. He emphasizes the significance of building strong relationships with investors and the lessons learned from scaling his business.   Sponsors: Altra Running  

Join Tim Mai for an illuminating conversation with Michael Haigh, Director of Investment Relations at ATX Acquisitions, whose remarkable journey from managing the University of Chicago's $14 billion endowment to overseeing ATX's $600 million portfolio showcases exceptional market timing and investment acumen. Discover how ATX's contrarian approach led them to sell $1 billion in assets before market valuations peaked, and learn why they're now strategically re-entering the market with a focus on multifamily properties. With an impressive track record of over 99% successful deals across 115 properties and consistent above-20% net IRRs, Michael shares invaluable insights into capital raising strategies.Key Takeaways to listen for:Market Timing Mastery: ATX demonstrated exceptional market insight by selling $1 billion in assets between 2019-2023 when they recognized frothy valuations and compressed cap rates.Strategic Acquisition Criteria: Less competition exists in 1980s vintage properties due to institutional investors' rigid cutoff dates and ceiling height requirements, creating opportunities to acquire similar quality assets at better pricing compared to early 1990s properties.Capital Raising Success: ATX's approach to raising capital involves multiple channels - over 300 high-net-worth individuals, 10 family offices, and fund offerings - with persistence in follow-ups (5-12 touches) and a mindset that they're providing valuable portfolio opportunities to investors.Risk Management Lessons: From their one unsuccessful deal out of 115 properties, ATX learned crucial lessons about the importance of thorough JV partner vetting, maintaining healthy cash buffers, and ensuring close property oversight for labor-intensive assets.Marketing Strategy: Their investor attraction approach combines LinkedIn presence, educational events (including expert speakers), podcast appearances, and strategic partnerships with other syndicators, creating multiple touchpoints for potential investors while providing genuine value through content and networking.About Tim MaiTim Mai is a real estate investor, fund manager, mentor, and founder of HERO Mastermind for REI coaches.He has helped many real estate investors and coaches become millionaires. Tim continues to help busy professionals earn income and build wealth through passive investing. He is also a creative marketer and promoter with incredible knowledge and experience, which he freely shares. He has lifted himself from the aftermath of war, achieving technical expertise in computers, followed by investment success in real estate, management skills, and a lofty position among real estate educators and internet marketers. Tim is an industry leader who has acquired and exited well over $50 million worth of real estate and is currently an investor in over 2700 units of multifamily apartments.Connect with TimWebsite: Capital Raising PartyFacebook: Tim Mai | Capital Raising Nation Instagram: @timmaicomTwitter: @timmaiLinkedIn: Tim MaiYouTube: Tim Mai

Get an exclusive preview of the upcoming Commodities Global Expo 2024 with this insightful interview featuring Serafino Iacono, Executive Chairman and CEO of Denarius Metals (Cboe CA: DMET | OTCQX: DNRSF).In this Stocks to Watch interview, Serafino shares the latest updates on Denarius Metals' projects in Colombia and Spain, including plans to reach 75,000 ounces of annual gold production by 2025. Learn about the company's promising IRRs exceeding 230% and their strategy to unlock shareholder value. He also offers his bullish outlook on gold and silver markets, predicting gold to stabilize between $2,000-$2,500 and silver prices to potentially double. With a current market cap of $50 million and over $100 million invested, Denarius Metals presents an interesting opportunity for investors in the precious metals sector. Don't miss this preview of the Commodities Global Expo 2024, happening on October 20-22 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.Learn more about Denarius Metals: https://denariusmetals.com/Join the upcoming Commodities Global Expo 2024: https://topshelf-partners.com/Watch the full YouTube interview here: https://youtu.be/55FEqWP-XGIAnd follow us to stay updated: https://www.youtube.com/@GlobalOneMedia?sub_confirmation=1

Key Takeaways:CRE Central offers comprehensive education and coaching for commercial real estate investors, covering fundamentals to advanced strategies.Tyler Cauble recently launched a new, more in-depth underwriting spreadsheet for his CRE Accelerator members, which includes features like a green box for debt service coverage ratio and waterfalls.When choosing between starting at a boutique brokerage or a large firm like CBRE or JLL, the decision depends on the resources needed and the type of clients one wants to work with.Proper underwriting and being realistic about the numbers are crucial in commercial real estate, as Tyler takes a conservative approach to ensure deals work even if things go wrong.The self-storage market has remained relatively stable in terms of cap rates, but Tyler advises looking into markets with more multifamily units than self-storage facilities to find attractive deals.Tyler recommends investing in areas north of the Cumberland River in Nashville, such as East Nashville, Madison, and Hendersonville, as they are undervalued compared to more established markets.Tyler is launching a Broker's Mastermind program in October, designed to teach brokers how to earn a million dollars in commissions in a year.When marketing industrial outdoor storage before the property is complete, Tyler suggests using Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, and large signage on the property, as well as writing blog posts to attract potential tenants.

Lending to law firms against portfolios of legal assets can generate hefty returns, according to North Wall Capital, the London-based credit investor. “We target 25%-plus IRRs, and we have historically outperformed that,” Fabian Chrobog, its chief investment officer and founder, says in Bloomberg Intelligence's Credit Edge podcast. Separately, North Wall aims to make “mid teens” gains in middle-market private credit, Chrobog tells Bloomberg News' James Crombie and BI senior credit analyst Tolu Alamutu. Also in this episode, Chrobog and Alamutu discuss creditor protections, real estate opportunity and the advantages of geographical diversification. “I can see the returns in the US decreasing while I can see still some really interesting opportunities in Europe,” says Chrobog. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Scott Trench, CEO of BiggerPockets, shares his first-hand experience losing money in real estate syndications - and what it teaches us about finding quality operators. He also looks at the commercial real estate market, predicting pain over the next 18 months. Here are some useful key insights from this episode:Avoid syndicators that diversify across many markets instead of specializing in one. Look for operators with proven long-term track records close to the properties.Thoroughly analyze a syndicator's assumptions about rent growth, expenses, and exit cap rates. Be wary of overly optimistic projections just to show high IRRs. Commercial real estate is in for major pain as oversupply crashes into higher rates. Rents may not recover for years. Protect yourself by understanding these market forces.Tune in now to hear BiggerPockets insider's unfiltered lessons on thriving through today's syndication landmines and shifting market tides.Timestamps:00:46 Introduction to Scott Trench of Bigger Pockets02:53 Four major asset types in Scott's portfolio06:32 Investment strategy, prioritizing real estate and index funds09:35 Scott's real estate buying strategy12:46 Passive investing in syndications with mixed results17:28 Real estate market challenges in 2023 and 202420:43 Taxes, insurance, and interest rates23:43 Multifamily and commercial real estate predictions for 2025 and further28:13 Investing in a real estate syndication operator's integrity and performance34:31 Unethical practices in the multifamily investing industry37:23 The danger of fraud and challenges of investing in real estate syndications47:11 Scott's future investing plans51:46 Personal vision, goal-setting, and aligning goals with a spouse1:00:14 How does Scott give backVISIT OUR WEBSITEhttps://lifebridgecapital.com/Here are ways you can work with us here at Life Bridge Capital:⚡️START INVESTING TODAY: If you think that real estate syndication may be right for you, contact us today to learn more about our current investment opportunities: https://lifebridgecapital.com/investwithlbc⚡️Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheRealEstateSyndicationShow

Mark Gerson is an investor, businessman, and philanthropist. He co-founded Gerson Lehrman Group (GLG), Thuzio, and most recently, 3i Members. Mark is also the Co-Founder and Chairman of United Hatzalah, a network of volunteer medics in Israel, and the African Mission Healthcare Foundation.3i Members is an investing network of 400+ investors—all who have exited a company or lead a family office. Members participate in monthly deal meetings, regional events, diligence discussions, and more. 3i deal flow is characterized by its high-yielding nature (15-20%+ IRRs), underwritable, uncorrelated, and off-market alternatives with asymmetric return profiles.See here:https://bit.ly/44ff6r1

Mark Purtell and Preston Hartsell of CTC Capital Management join Slocomb Reed on the Best Ever Show. In this episode, Mark and Preston discuss bringing co-GP equity to deals, when to focus on IRR, and what kind of IRRs they're currently targeting. Mark Purtell and Preston Hartsell | Real Estate Background Head of Real Estate Acquisitions and Development | CTC Capital Management Based in:  Chicago, IL Say hi to him at:  https://ctccapitalmanagement.com/ Best Ever Book: The Gambler: How Penniless Dropout Kirk Kerkorian Became the Greatest Deal Maker in Capitalist History by William Rempel Sponsors: Viking Capital Baselane  

Today's podcast is with Irwin Boris, head of acquisitions and investor relations at Heritage Capital Group, a 3rd generation family office with over $750MM in assets under management, whose Number 1 investment priority is Don't Lose Money! Irwin does not believe in basing investment decisions on the IRR but focuses on underwriting investments to prioritize stable, ongoing cash flow while aiming to at least double equity through appreciation during the lifecycle of any deal. Evidence of the prudence of this approach, Irwin says, is seen in the current market where many sponsors and their investors who were chasing high IRRs are now facing serious cash crises and, in the worst cases, complete loss of invested capital. Heritage Capital Group has an extensive history of investing through multiple economic cycles and multiple asset classes including multifamily, having owned over 7,000 units at one time, office, and today, industrial of which they currently own and manage some 6 million square feet. Irwin shares his insights into the broader implications of rising interest rates and their impact on the real estate market and he discusses how Heritage's cautious approach to debt, favoring longer-term fixed debt structures, has helped mitigate the risks associated with macro-economic market volatility. Wrapping up, Irwin shares his projections for the industrial real estate market as we move into 2024. He provides a nuanced perspective on the opportunities and challenges that lie ahead, offering strategic advice for navigating the complex landscape of commercial real estate investment. This podcast is an essential listen for those interested in gaining a deeper understanding of industrial real estate investment, market trends, and the strategic considerations crucial for successful real estate ventures in any asset class or during any phase of the economic cycle. **** In this brand new podcast series at GowerCrowd, The Real Estate Reality Show, we take a realistic view of commercial real estate investing, providing pragmatic insights for passive investors who are looking for sponsors they can trust and distressed opportunities they can invest in. You'll find no quick fixes or easy money ideas here, no sales pitches, big egos or hype. You'll learn how to build your wealth while protecting your capital investing as a limited partner in commercial real estate investments, even and especially during an economic downturn. Subscribe to our free newsletter here. 

Are you looking to dive into the world of passive investing in real estate syndications but have a ton of questions? Well, you're in luck! Our latest episode of the Multifamily Wealth Podcast is a treasure trove of insights just for you.In this special solo episode, I tackle the nine most frequently asked questions by prospective investors and LPs (Limited Partners). Whether you're a seasoned active investor or a curious LP, this episode is packed with valuable information to help you navigate the complex landscape of real estate syndications.Here's a sneak peek of what you'll discover:Who Can Invest in Real Estate Syndications? - Uncover the nuances of who can get involved and the types of offerings availableInvesting with Retirement Accounts - Learn how to leverage self-directed IRAs for investing in private real estate transactionsExpected Returns on Investment - Get a grasp on the typical ROI ranges for cash on cash returns, IRRs, and equity multiplesUnderstanding Downside Risks - Find out how your investment is protected as an LPDistribution Schedules and Methods - Discover how and when you can expect to receive your returnsLiquidity Concerns - Address the common concern of how to access your money when neededSyndications vs. REITs - Learn the key differences between these two investment vehiclesDeal Structures Explained - Gain clarity on the legal and economic frameworks of syndication dealsThe Investment Process - Walk through the steps from commitment to closingAre you a new multifamily investor looking to grow your portfolio but don't know where to start? Are you an existing multifamily investor looking to scale your business and master advanced topics such as capital structure, finding off-market deals, and establishing JV partnerships? Click here to learn more about 7-Day Multifamily, a program in which I teach investors the foundational skills they need to start and scale a multifamily portfolio rapidly.Are you looking to invest in real estate, but don't want to deal with the hassle of finding great deals, signing on debt, and managing tenants? Aligned Real Estate Partners provides investment opportunities to passive investors looking for the returns, stability, and tax benefits multifamily real estate offers, but without the work - join our investor club to be notified of future investment opportunities.Connect with Axel:Follow him on InstagramConnect with him on LinkedInSubscribe to our YouTube channelLearn more about Aligned Real Estate Partners

Welcome back to the Real Estate Syndication Show! I'm your host, Whitney Sewell, and today we had the pleasure of speaking with Aleksey Chernobelskiy, an expert advisor for LP (Limited Partner) investors in the real estate syndication space.Aleksey brings a wealth of knowledge from his experience managing Store Capital's $10 billion commercial real estate portfolio and his impressive educational background as a quadruple major from the University of Arizona. He now shares his insights with nearly 2000 investors through his Substack and assists GPs (General Partners) with various aspects of LP relations.In our conversation, Aleksey emphasized the importance of LPs taking their time to understand deals and maintaining a healthy dose of scepticism when evaluating potential investments. He also highlighted the need for LPs to be sensitive to the GPs' position, as they manage inquiries from various investors.We dove into Aleksey 's article on the top 15 syndication mistakes, discussing how LPs should approach deal splits, preferred returns (PREFs), and IRRs (Internal Rate of Return). Aleksey stressed that LPs should not focus solely on IRRs, as they can be misleading and often depend on aggressive assumptions. Instead, he advises LPs to understand the risks and the factors that could impact the deal's success.We also touched on the topic of fees, with Aleksey  explaining the rationale behind acquisition fees and the importance of transparency from GPs. He pointed out that while fees are necessary for GPs to operate, LPs must understand how these fees impact their investment from day one.For those interested in learning more from Aleksey , you can find him on  LinkedIn, and his Substack, where he regularly shares valuable insights into the world of real estate investing.Thank you for tuning in, and don't forget to like and subscribe for more expert advice on real estate syndication. Share the show with your friends and help them become better investors too!VISIT OUR WEBSITEhttps://lifebridgecapital.com/Here are ways you can work with us here at Life Bridge Capital:⚡️START INVESTING TODAY: If you think that real estate syndication may be right for you, contact us today to learn more about our current investment opportunities: https://lifebridgecapital.com/investwithlbc⚡️Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheRealEstateSyndicationShow

- The real estate market is facing challenges like higher costs, difficulty obtaining financing, and uncertainty about the future. However, this also creates opportunities for investors who can find good deals.- Local politics and policies have a major impact on real estate markets, more so than who is in the White House. Investors need to pay attention to their local areas.- Expectations for investment returns will likely need to be adjusted downward, with a focus on cash flow over high IRRs. - Rising costs like insurance are major issues in addition to interest rates, making deals harder to make work financially.- 2024 may see opportunities emerge as developments from the past few years deliver properties into a difficult market environment. Having cash available will be important.https://www.tylercauble.com/podcast/episode179

This episode is brought to you by Presario Ventures, a private equity real estate firm based in the booming Austin, Texas, market. To learn how to invest in the future of Texas with Presario Ventures, visit info.presarioventures.com/bestever. In this episode, Andrew Freed, an experienced commercial real estate investor, shares his journey from a one-bedroom condo owner to managing a diverse portfolio of multifamily properties. He discusses his innovative syndication approach, lessons learned from past investments, and strategies for maximizing returns while mitigating risks. Key Takeaways: Syndication Strategies: Andrew explains the intricacies of syndicating a diverse portfolio of 12 properties with 65 units. He delves into the importance of negotiating a partial release clause with lenders, which allows for the sale of individual properties and offers greater flexibility in managing debt. Investor-Focused Approach: Andrew's syndication model prioritizes investor returns. He outlines a transparent and straightforward profit-sharing structure, with investors receiving a preferred return and a substantial portion of profits, resulting in higher internal rates of return (IRRs). Continuous Self-Development: Andrew emphasizes the significance of self-discovery and personal development in the entrepreneurial journey. He encourages aspiring commercial real estate investors to focus on becoming the best versions of themselves to achieve their investment goals.   Andrew Freed | Real Estate Background Founder of Freedom Management Portfolio: 95 Units - 65 units in New Bedford MA, 29 units in Worcester, 1 condo in Boston Based in: Worcester, MA Say hi to him at:  LinkedIn Instagram Best Ever Book: The Wealthy Gardener by John Soforic Greatest Lesson: Have an endless desire for self-development and self-discovery.   Click here to learn more about our sponsors: Presario Ventures Rentec Direct

Unlike most Real Estate asset classes, the Mobile Home Park industry will not see high levels of distress caused by aggressive, short-term floating rate debt. Lenders of Mobile Home Parks are typically more conservative, and operators are not facing the same level of occupancy and expense challenges of other asset classes. Mobile Home Parks aren't pretty, but they still consistently cash flow better than many other assets that are traditionally more sought after. Mario Datillo, CEO of Celebrate Communities, is buying Mobile Home Park communities in Florida, where he resides, plus Atlanta, Dallas, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh. Mario also publishes a lot of educational content for new Mobile Home Park investors.  Mario targets a 10% cap rate upon stabilization by year two and IRRs in the high teens.

Want to make informed investment decisions? Join us as we unpack the secrets behind risk-adjusted returns with Paul Shannon. He talks about real estate investing in today's uncertain market, how he vets sponsors, looks for risk-adjusted returns, and the benefits of both active and passive investing.Paul Shannon is the principal of Red Hawk Real Estate and fund manager of InvestWise Collective, a partnership between Red Hawk Real Estate and Left Field Investors. Since transitioning to real estate investing full-time in 2019, Paul has acquired over 200 residential units by recycling his equity and through joint ventures. A licensed realtor, Paul has experience in acquisitions, raising capital, and property management. Here are some power takeaways from today's conversation:[02:00] Why Paul slowed down in investing [11:10] Emerging Trends in Multifamily Financing: Longer Holds, Lower Returns[18:00] How active investing makes you a better passive investor[21:00] Understanding risk-adjusted returns[26:45] About InvestWise Collective[30:50] Tips for vetting sponsors and investors[41:50] Being selective with higher quality deals Episode Highlights:[11:10] Emerging Trends in Multifamily Financing: Longer Holds, Lower ReturnsMultifamily operators are shifting towards agency debt or fixed-rate products with stepped-down prepay penalties to avoid costly fees when selling before maturity. This change means longer hold periods, lower leverage, and loan-to-value ratios in the 50s to 60s. Lenders require properties to generate income 1.2 to 1.3 times higher than the debt service, leading to decreased loan proceeds and reduced returns. Despite this, there are still attractive investment opportunities, but investors must consider more than just high IRRs and cash-on-cash returns.[21:00] Understanding Risk-Adjusted Returns: Maximizing Returns While Managing Risk in Investments‘Risk-adjusted returns' refer to the amount of return an investment generates relative to the amount of risk involved in producing that return. An investment with a higher risk-adjusted return means it generates more return for the amount of risk taken. Paul explains risk-adjusted returns by comparing potential returns from real estate investments to risk-free alternatives like high-yield savings accounts. The returns from real estate deals involve more risk due to factors like rising interest rates, cap rate compression, and reliance on sponsor pro formas. However, they must offer a high enough return to justify that additional risk compared to the guaranteed return from a savings account. Paul looks at variables like yield on cost, IRR, and cash flow to determine if a deal offers a sufficient risk-adjusted return for his investors.[30:50] Tips for Vetting Sponsors and InvestorsPaul places the most emphasis on trust, ensuring the sponsor will act as a fiduciary for investors' capital. He examines the sponsor's track record but notes that a longer track record does not necessarily mean better, focusing more on how the sponsor navigated past downturns. Paul analyzes the sponsor's financial spreadsheets in depth to understand their assumptions and whether they are conservative or aggressive. Rather than just looking at headline returns, he focuses on yield on cost, IRR partitioning and cash flows to determine the deal's risk level. Finally, Paul looks at the debt terms the sponsor is using to ensure it matches their business plan and exit strategy to minimize prepayment penalties.This show is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said on the show should be considered financial advice. Before making any decisions, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by Passive Investing from Left Field and Left Field Investors. Written permissions must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.Resources Mentioned:Redhawk Real EstateInvestWise CollectiveEmail: paulshannon@investwisecollective.com   Podcast Recommendation:Old Capital Podcast

Tune in to hear updates and commentary from Adam Gower Ph.D., GowerCrowd, and David Saxe, Calvera Partners, about the major news stories this past week (week ending August 11, 2023) in the commercial real estate industry: Stories we cover today: 1. Urban doom loop. 2. New deals on offer at 24% IRR's - you've got to be kidding! 3. Even multifamily is facing peril Articles we refer to: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zengernews/2023/07/31/for-commercial-real-estate-investors-urban-doom-loop-is-both-crisis-and-opportunity/ https://therealdeal.com/national/2023/08/10/wework-bankruptcy-would-ripple-across-real-estate-industry/ https://www.realtymogul.com/investment-opportunity/2485683?sfmc_id=20436034 https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2023/08/211163-crowdstreet-comments-on-critical-wsj-report-represents-an-incomplete-view-of-deal-performance/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-real-estate-haven-turns-perilous-with-roughly-1-trillion-coming-due-74d20528

Jefferson is a mobile home park investment expert and educator. He is the founder of Park Avenue Partners. a private equity real estate fund that acquires and operates mobile home parks nationwide. His investment funds are returning 10% - 15% IRRs to Limited Partners. Both personally and through his partnerships, Jefferson has acquired 31 MHPs in 15 states since 2007 totaling over $7lmm in value. He started the industry's first MHP podcast and the largest group on LinkedIn dedicated to investing in mobile home parks. Prior to beginning to manage investors' money in 2014, Jefferson spent seven years investing his own capital in mobile home parks and consulting to high-net-worth families with interests in the manufactured housing industry. Jefferson has been featured in The New York Times, Bloomberg Magazine, and on the Real Money television show. He holds a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from the Wharton School of Business. Get in touch with Jefferson: Park Avenue Partners website: https://www.parkavenuepartners.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonlilly/ For informational purposes only. Always consult with professionals. This is not meant to be used as legal or tax advice or otherwise. Any projections, opinions, assumptions, or estimates used are for example only. All information should be independently verified and is subject to errors and omissions. Check out some of our other videos and listings: PreReal Podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgZYyrkRyU&list=PLbyMUN39hTNWUFWH-tprcR0sTOwdqCfuk PreReal™, Prendamano Real Estate of staten island, NY is a real estate marketing firm that is focused on lead generation for all its properties for sale. More leads equals bigger pockets in the end for everyone. If you are house hunting and looking for a house for sale don't hesitate to give us a call (718)200-7799. If you think it is time to sell your house, we can get you top dollar for your property. Visit us at www.prereal.com Follow us on: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PrendamanoRealEstate Instagram: @prerealpodcast @prerealestate TikTok: @prerealestate Twitter: @prerealestate #RealEstate #Tips #PreReal

In this episode of the Millionaire Mindcast, our guest is Brian Davis who shares his real estate investing journey, being an expat living around the world, insights on how he sequentially built-up to where he is today, integrating syndication, the buy-criteria for deals and diversifying it, and how to live your ideal lifestyle without actually being financially free! Brian Davis is a rental industry expert, passionate real estate & personal finance educator, freelance writer for Inman, R.E.Tipster, Coach Carson, Think Save Retire, 1500 Days, Money Crashers, and of course, BiggerPockets, and Co-Founder at Spark Rental, a real estate investment club that help people and landlords grow and manage their rental portfolio, and reach financial independence through education and tools. He loves writing and hosting online classes. He managed an e-commerce company for almost eight years, during which time the company exploded from a tiny startup to an international corporation. He had also served as the Real Estate Department Manager for Bay Capital Corporation, a national mortgage lender. Then, he gradually scales up his real estate investing career. Today, Brian owns an interest in over 1,500 units and has owned dozens of rental properties. This allows him to live around the world for 8 years now. Brian is living an ideal lifestyle without actually being financially independent!   Some Questions I Ask: Give us some insights on from where you started and where you are today? Talk about your investing journey? What do you say to the person who wants to start integrating in the world of syndication, and avoid some of the mistakes that a lot of people make going that path? What are some of the deal types that you guys are presenting and bringing to your community? What do you see on multi-family deals that are coming across your plate, and some of the ones you are investing in? Talk about the average deals, size, IRRs, and some of the buy-criteria that you're looking for in terms of a deal you invest in? Talk a little bit about Spark Rental, what is it, who's that for, and what's tradition there?   In This Episode, You Will Learn: Why Brian hates being a landlord. Investing real estate with lesser capital. How to live your ideal lifestyle without actually being financially independent.  Quotes: “Part of being in business is solving problems.”   Connect with Brian Davis on:  https://sparkrental.com/free-class-passive-real-estate-syndications/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/g-brian-davis-ab3a4b20/?originalSubdomain=br   Sponsor Links: Indochino: Get 10% off of any purchase on $399 or more with the promo code: MINDCAST BetterHelp: Click the link to get 10% off your first month or use the promo code: MINDCAST Factor75: Use the code MINDCAST50 to get 50% off your FIRST box! Brevo: Visit https://brevo.com/mindcast or Use the code MINDCAST and get 50% off your first 3 months!   Accredited Investor List - Text "DEALS" to 844.447.1555 Free Financial Audit: Text "XRAY" to 844.447.1555 Upcoming Events: Text "Events" to 844.447.1555 Millionaire Notes: Text "Notes" to 844.447.1555 Connect with Matty A. and Text me to 844.447.1555    Show Brought To You By: www.MillionaireMindcast.com Questions? Comments? Do you have a success story you would like to share on the show?  Send us an email to: Questions@MillionaireMindcast.com  

Today's guest is Dr. Jeff Anzalone   Dr. Jeff  is a full-time practicing periodontist in the great state of Louisiana, author and founder of DebtFreeDr.com. His focus is on helping doctors and other high-income professionals create passive income from real estate. Join Sam and Dr. Jeff in today's show. -------------------------------------------------------------- Content Creation [00:00:00] Changes in Real Estate Investing [00:01:26] Using AI for Real Estate Analysis [00:05:52] Vetting Sponsors [00:09:22] Using AI for Content Creation [00:11:11] Repurposing Articles into Videos [00:16:41] Content Creation Hack [00:18:06] Fund to Funds Model [00:20:01] Finding Small Sponsors [00:21:46] -------------------------------------------------------------- Connect with Dr. Jeff YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DebtFreeDoctorJeffAnzalone Ebook: https://www.debtfreedr.com/doctors-passive-income-guide/   Connect with Sam: I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/ Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com   SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f -------------------------------------------------------------- Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:  A Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:00:00) - So there's tons of different ways you can do content creation. Uh, ideas co uh, help writing emails, help writing blog descriptions, YouTube to, I mean, just you name it. Um, it, and again, if you want to research a particular type of investment, you wanna research particular type of area, uh, you know, there's hundreds and thousands of chat G p t prompts, you know, that, that you can use. Welcome   Intro (00:00:28) - To the How to Scale commercial real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.   Sam Wilson (00:00:41) - Dr. Jeff Anzalone is a full-time practicing Pero Donis in the great state of Louisiana. He's also also author and founder of debt free dr.com. If you don't know, Jeff came on the show last on March. What was that March 4th, 2021 recording. This now May, I can't believe it's may already, May 2nd, 2023. So it's been a whole whopping, that's 26 months. Jeff, since you've come on the show, I'm sure a lot of things have changed. Welcome back to the show. It's a pleasure to have you.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:01:07) - Yeah, thanks for having me back. Uh, honored to be back, hopefully provide even more value to your audience and, uh, two years ago.   Sam Wilson (00:01:14) - Absolutely, Jeff, I do do this as a recap though, for every single episode, every guest that comes on the show in 90 seconds or less. And you tell me where did you start, where are you now, and how did you get there?   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:01:26) - Uh, started, uh, as a periodontist trade in time for money. Got about eight years ago, had a snow skiing accident, fell injured my wrist. That was my wake up call to basically I needed to do something to bring in other streams of income besides something that uses my hands. And long story short, started researching, found out wealthy people have multiple streams of income, wealthy people on real estate. That, that led me to focus that because I'm busy guy, like most people on this show, um, didn't want to be an active investor, which I'm actually now kind of dabbling into that now, but started off as a passive investor and syndications. And, um, here we are, started educating people on my website. And then it's grown to, uh, leaps and bounds and, and love educating people and connecting with people.   Sam Wilson (00:02:24) - Man, that's cool. I love, I love that, uh, that journey there along the way. And that's also fun to see, see that you're now getting more into the active, uh, active investing side of things. I, I always say that there's no such thing as true passive investing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even, even as a passive investor, figuring out who you want to write that check to and tracking those investments. There's still keeping up with the K one s and all that stuff. There's still some work involved, even as a passive investor. But tell me, you know, in the last two years, like what, what are some things you've been working on? What has changed? Where are you   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:02:58) - Now? I, um, let's see. When we spoke, I started raising some capital for deals around September, 2020. Mm-hmm. . So I'd been doing it for, what, about seven or eight months when you and I spoke. Yep. And that, that has really expanded because I've gotten to meet a whole lot more groups to work with some good, some bad, some in between. Uh, so now I, I, now I'm starting to focus more on what my, you know, my, my target audience. The people that come into my group, you know, these are mainly physicians and dentists, but there are other high income professionals, engineers, nurses, attorneys, et cetera, that are too busy to really do this themselves. So as, as this, as this group has grown to now I've got, um, about 1800 people in my investor group and growing it, it, it, it actually puts more pressure on me to be a steward of people's money.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:04:04) - So it actually makes it even more important to go out and really find these groups, these people to work with, you know, so for instance, I went to, and I've never been to Vegas before. Went to Vegas a couple weeks ago with, with a, uh, a smaller group that are doing mobile home parks. We went out there, there was a convention. I got to meet with them. I got to see how they work with brokers. We got to, you know, look at property. So I'm really getting involved with it instead of just somebody emailing me going, Hey, you wanna raise capital for my deal? And that happens a lot and people will, you know, unfortunately, people will take people up on that without even getting to know them. So, am I perfect? No, but I do everything I can because I'm, I'm putting my money with these people as well, so I, you know, I don't wanna lose, you know, money.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:04:53) - So, uh, that, that has changed now, um, with trying to really find these groups that are up and coming. That's one difference. Uh, second difference is, um, I've become a fund manager because a lot of these groups now are wanting to do real estate funds instead of just these one-off syndications. So I'm able now to go to these groups and go and leverage my, my network investor's size with having a fund to, to get potentially better returns. You know, basically, you know, like, so for instance, I start, I started, I started a short term rental fund last year, and I, and I started another one this year. Well, I went to the group and they were paying, I think a seven pref with a 50 50 split. And I was able to negotiate better terms, uh, an eight pref 70 30 split, or a nine pref with an 80 20 split, depending on how much money you invested.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:05:52) - Uh, hard to do that without having a fund and without having a group like that to leverage. So that's number two. And then number three is, uh, November, 2022. Chat, g p t was launched, uh, openai.com. Uh, I use it all the time now to, to help analyze, steals, create content, um, check for Market Con, you know, if, if I'm looking in a certain area like Sarasota, Florida, you know, you can get all kinds of stuff. I mean, the, the, what I'm telling you right now, probably in about two weeks would probably be obsolete, you know, cuz it, it changes so fast. So it's, it's, it's amazing the, um, what you can do. It's amazing the people that are using it. And, um, so those are the three main things that have changed.   Sam Wilson (00:06:42) - That is a lot, uh, uh, of moving pieces. Let's, I want to hear how you're using ai. Let's get into that here in a minute. But before, before we do that, let's, let's kind of go back. You said something earlier, you said good, bad. And in between those were the three words that you had used to describe the various sponsors and or deals that you've been looking at and reviewing as a passive and or maybe even a fund in Vater. What, what does that mean to you and how are you, how are you, how has your strategy changed on vetting sponsors?   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:07:18) - I think the number one thing is I'm getting, as I mentioned, I'm getting a whole lot more involved. Plus I've met people that are very wealthy, 5,000 plus million net worth people. And listening to those people who they invest with, what they're investing in, who they're avoiding, that has helped, um, a lot. And, and I, and I understand these people can take risks, but a lot of times they'll say, you know, a lot of times they don't wanna take risks. They just wanna not lose money, you know, even though they can afford to lose a lot. So, uh, and I, and I've gotten, uh, actually I got my mobile home park group from one person like that. And so networking more has helped, uh, finding out the people to really stay away. E even though they have a great website and, you know, they have all this stuff, the bells and whistles, they look great, but really digging deep in finding out about, I'm doing a background check, you know, anything I can, talking to their investors, um, to figure out, again, it's not a hundred percent foolproof, but I, I'm, I'm focusing on that more and, and talking a whole lot more, spending more time before I even consider working with them.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:08:34) - Uh, because, you know, before I'd only been working for, what, seven, eight months raising capital. Now it's, you know, it's been almost three years. So, um, you know, you learn a lot, you make mistakes. Um, but, uh, but you know, my main goal is to not lose, you know, every deal looks the same almost on social media and everything's a five year hold and a two x equity multiple and a seven or eight president. It's like, well, how do I tell if everything looks the same? I'm like, well, I always tell people I graduated with 58 dentists, but I want, I would only let about four or five of 'em work on me. But they're all dentists, right? Meaning there's a lot of syndicators out there. But those just a handful of 'em that I would work with. Right. And, and, and the the million dollar question is how do you find that? And, and that's what I'm trying to do,   Sam Wilson (00:09:22) - Right? Yeah. And I don't, I don't know that there, I mean, there, there are the, the checklist items you mentioned background checks, you know, references, investor references, deal performance, how close to their, how close to their deals perform relative to the shiny brochures that we all put out when we're launching a deal. Did they meet their cash flow projections? You know, how many exits, if any, have they had those things? You can, but then there's also, there's also I think, the finer art to that, the more subjective side of it, which is the, do I wanna work with these, with this group? What's the communication style like? Is, are we, are we philosophically aligned? Um, you know, those are important things too that I think maybe, like you said, it just takes some of that massaging and that time it's really just time, maybe mm-hmm.   Sam Wilson (00:10:10) -  with those, with those deal sponsors that, uh, that you need. So that's really cool. Thank you for taking the time to share that. One thing that we've not had on the show is anybody really talking to us about how they are meaningfully using AI to help them in the real estate business. So I'd love to give you some time here just to, just to share that with us. I had a buddy yesterday that was shooting some video here in our office. And then before the day was over yesterday, he sent me images of people at some of our facilities that were all our logo branded. I mean, they look just like you and me, real humans. And he is like, this is all ai. It's completely made up. I fed a bunch of words in, and here's what I've got. I'm like, your wait, you're telling me that this person actually doesn't exist anywhere in the world? He's like, Nope, this is crazy. So I want to hear what you're doing and how, and then that was just kind of for fun, fun gimmick. Wasn't really using it for anything purposeful, but what are you doing to use ai? You mentioned using chat, G p t for research, for underwriting, for what? Just gimme the, gimme the down and dirty on that.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:11:11) - Well, you know, the, the main thing that my goal is on my website is to educate people a a about real estate, about different things. And by going through that process, I educate myself, you know, let's, let's say I wanna learn about cap rate. Well, you know, going through the process, writing an article, publishing a YouTube video, that sort of thing. Um, that helps me educate myself. But now you can use AI to help with content creation ideas. You can use it for, uh, you know, article, blog, article outlines. I mean, you can get it to write the article for you. I don't recommend that because, you know, Google will flag you. But just coming up with ideas, you know, 50 different ideas from one topic, you know, maybe it's a, a multi-family apartment, you know, whatever real estate syndication or whatever you wanna do.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:12:04) - So there's tons of different ways you can do content creation, uh, ideas con uh, help writing emails, help writing blog descriptions, YouTube to, I mean, just you name it. Um, and again, if you want to research a particular type of investment, you wanna research particular type of area, uh, you know, there's hundreds and thousands of chat G p t prompts, you know, that, that you can use. Again, this will, this will probably be outdated when we're after you listen to this for a couple weeks, but still, I mean, literally, uh, you know, we were, I'll talk to my brother last night. He's a civil engineer and he'd never even used this. And, you know, and I, and I got pulled it up on my phone. I was like, you know, give me a difficult problem that a typical civil engineers tries to solve or whatever, and hit it and showed it to him. You know, it's just spitting out all this stuff. He's like, man, that's, that's unbelievable. You know? So this, you know, whatever you want, whatever you want help with, you know, just think about if you're like a c of a billion dollar company and you've got all these people, all these secretaries, all these assistants working for you, how would you talk to that person to get something done? You know, Hey, I want you to go do this. And, and you'd be very specific and you hit entering. That's it. And, and it's mind boggling.   Sam Wilson (00:13:25) - Wow. Wow. Yeah. I've even seen YouTube videos out there, people using it, um, to solve their Excel issues where they're like, gosh, I can't figure out what am I doing wrong if I want to get this, what am I doing wrong? And they'll put it in, they show you how to use chat g p t to help solve Excel problems. I like the idea there though, of kind of the content creation side of things, cuz I'm not, I'm not real creative, Jeff. It's why I do an interview based podcast, because I get to ask you questions, then you talk to me. It makes, it makes it a lot easier. I don't have to generate my own content. So I think, you know, coming up with ideas, like you said, I ideas from one topic that's brilliant. Like, hey, well   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:14:05) - Here, here's a, here's an example of that. So let's say you're gonna interview Joe Smith that owns a self storage facilities and he's a podcaster, blah, blah, blah. Well, you could go in the chat G p T and go, Hey, I would like for you to help me create some interview questions for a person. You know, do you understand? And it'll say, yeah, I understand. Gimme information about it. And then you start copy and pasting stuff from podcasts, from his website, and it'll go through there, and then it'll give you things to talk about. That's just one example. That's wild. And it takes like 60 seconds.   Sam Wilson (00:14:38) - That's wild. And those, those are, those are pre-programmed prompts, like you asked there. Do you understand?   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:14:46) - Um, I, I like the, the more information you can feed it before you start asking questions, the better. So I'm, I'm feeding information, you know, hey, it, let's say you wanted to write a business plan for like a new business or new, you know, new something, or you need, want to do like standard operating procedures, whatever. So you need to feed it information, you know, all about what you're trying to do, you know? And, um, the more information, the more, the more information you can give it, the better outputs it's gonna give you instead of being generic. So for instance, my, my, my son is graduating from high school and, and in a couple weeks. So my wife was like, well, can you help, can you help him create like a, a a couple of, uh, you know, he's getting these graduation presents or whatever.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:15:36) - Oh, oh, he had a, um, some of our friends threw him a fiesta, like a party, you know, graduation party. So I was very specific and said, Hey, you know, I would, I'm a, you know, 18 year old senior in high school, I would like for you to create a letter to my, um, to my mom and dad's best friends that gave me a party for graduation. It was a fiesta. And it, and it literally took all of that and it, cr it was perfect. I ma I made a few changes, but again, to get what you want, you gotta put in more information about it.   Sam Wilson (00:16:10) - Now that make, that makes a a lot of sense. Let's transition here. One of the things that you've been doing recently is your, your YouTube channel, and you've got I think 2000 what subscribers at this point, which is great. Uh, but part of that, you were, you, we talked about this off offline, was taking articles and creating those into videos. What's a, what's a meaningful way? We, I know we're spending a lot of time here on content creation, but I think, I think it's been the thrust maybe of what you've been doing in the last two years is becoming that educator, right? Is that, is that,   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:16:41) - Yeah, and if you're like, like if you have a podcast like you mm-hmm. , you can get transcripts and then you can get chat G P T or you can get people that use chat G p t to repurpose what we're talking about. Repurpose your podcast to blog articles, repurpose your podcasts, to YouTube videos, whatever. So I, you know, the way that I learn now more than ever Yep. Is YouTube videos, podcasts, and then blog articles in that order. Mm-hmm. , right? So I was like, you know, I've got, I've got these, um, I've got all these articles, so why not convert them over to uh, um, YouTube videos? Right. You know, so, um, so I went ahead and I did that and um, I think I've got 160 something videos now. I I try to publish one or two a week. Yeah. And, and I can tell if you're trying to educate people out there, you're gonna build a lot more trust quicker cuz you can see somebody and you can see how they interact versus just reading a generic article. And I really like that about YouTube.   Sam Wilson (00:17:53) - Right. No, I, I couldn't agree more. So you're taking these articles, you've already written them. How do you, how do you, do you just restructure the video or, I mean, obviously you're not gonna read it word for word cuz that's boring, but   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:18:06) - This is gonna be, this is gonna be funny. I'm gonna give you a hack that I've never even told anybody before. All right. You, you, you can copy your article, you can copy anybody's article and paste it in the chat G p t and go, I, I want you to rewrite this article below. Uh, and I usually do this and you're gonna laugh, but it really helps. I want you to give this, uh, I want you to rewrite this article for an audience of, uh, either sixth or seventh graders into a YouTube video and give me like a catchy introduction or whatever. And it really dumbs it down for you, like depreciation, right? I mean that's sometimes that's hard to explain. It's like, you know, depreciation is like a gift from the government and, and, and it, it just, it it, it really dumbs it down for you, but it'll convert it for you. So it, it'll sound more like a, a, a video than you sitting there reading it, you know, word for word. I do that all the time. That's   Sam Wilson (00:19:00) - Awesome. I love that. Yeah. And you're so right cuz the, that is again, going back to what you've been doing, not just, you know, obviously raising your funds and, and doing that. But, but on the education side of things, I mean I had this very conversation with a very intelligent, uh, attorney friend of mine yesterday that just couldn't quite get his head wrapped around the idea that he has a phantom loss on, uh, one of his investments last year due to bonus depreciation. He's like, wait, he put 50 grand and he is like, how do I have a $45,000 write off from this deal last year? I'm like, well ge bonus's. Like, so wait, but I got distributions last year. Just the whole, you know, how how do you explain that to someone? The, that's, I love the, I love that that hack that's a lot of fun. When you talked early on, when you're now negotiating better terms with your deal sponsors, cuz you guys can come to them now as a single check investor, a large, a large investor, are you doing this on a fund to funds model? Is that, is that the way you're working that?   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:20:01) - Yes, I am.   Sam Wilson (00:20:02) - Okay, that's really, really cool. Can you give, just maybe shed some more light to that, uh, and tell us kind of how you go about negotiating those better terms, what deal sponsors are typically looking for? I know we've got just a couple minutes left here, but I didn't wanna leave that rock uh, unturned. So Yeah, if you can, if you can break that down for us, I think that would be insightful.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:20:22) - Yeah. So, you know, sometimes if it's like, so for instance, if it's a hundred thousand dollars minimum, a lot of times people are more comfortable with like a $50,000 minimum to get started. So I'll a, you know, I'll start there. Can you, can you lower your minimum? Can you, uh, give a better preferred return? Can you, you know, anything that you can nego anything that I can do based on what they're already offering, whether it's one, one part two parts or, you know, luckily with the short term rental, it was like all three, I was able to negotiate all different parts when it sells. Um, I was able to negotiate like, hey, if you do, if you invest like a hundred thousand dollars or more within a certain time period, you get a better preferred return versus if you wait later in the year. So there's all different creative way again, you could, and I've never done this, but now that I'm thinking about it, you could basically take, uh, and I'll probably will do this next time I, uh, are negotiating. I can take the term somebody's offering, put it in chat G P T and ask it, Hey, what are some better terms that I can negotiate this group based on these returns and just see what it says just to give me ideas, you know?   Sam Wilson (00:21:30) - Right. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. What are you finding for those that maybe don't do the fund to funds model? What are you finding the minimum kind of check size needs to be or sponsored to say, all right, yeah, we can come to the, come to the table and start negotiating better, better terms.   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:21:46) - The, the smaller, smaller sponsors. Million, million and a half, the larger ones, probably 5 million or more is what I'm seeing. Right. And, and, and another thing, the reason why I like finding some of these smaller sponsors are we can get better returns because they're not having to pay 5,000 thousand dollars a month in marketing fees to go out and run Facebook ads and Google ads to get investors. Uh, these people aren't paying anything. So they, they're like, okay, well if I don't have this huge budget, I can give more return. You know, like, uh, I found a, a guy that's an attorney and a dentist together, they were doing RV parks together and now I taught 'em about syndications and I, and I introduced 'em to my s e c attorney. We're, you know, our IRRs on are like 30, 34% that we're getting. And it's, and it's like, where can you get that? It's because you, you find these, these people that are, you know, these needle in the haystack people that are just killing it. And, and it's just from getting out there and networking, you know? And I love finding people like that because they're excited because now they can expand because I've taught 'em how to, uh, do a fun, I've taught 'em how to do a syndication instead of just them using their own money, you know?   Sam Wilson (00:23:02) - That's really, really cool. Jeff, you've taught us so many things here today. It's been a blast having you come here back on the show. Certainly enjoyed it. Uh, as much the second time around as we did on the first episode a couple years ago. If our listeners wanna get in touch with you and learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?   Dr. Jeff Anzalone (00:23:18) - Oh, they can go to my website, debt-free doctor.com. Um, I have a, uh, if they want to, um, start getting articles, YouTube videos, that sort of thing, they can go to debt-free dr.com/free, F r e e free guide, download our passive income guide. They'll automatically put, be put in the system and uh, start getting the emails.   Sam Wilson (00:23:40) - Fantastic. We'll make sure we include that there in the show notes. Jeff, thank you again for coming on the show today.   Sam Wilson (00:23:44) - This was a blast. I certainly appreciate it. My pleasure. Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can, do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.  

The average millionaire has 7 income streams. We discuss 2 income streams today—ATMs and Car Washes. They're low touch, more passive than turnkey real estate investing. With ATMs, is cash use on the decline? Not among the demographic they serve. We discuss the future of cash use. Some ATM users pay a $3 surcharge to access a $20 bill. That's why it's profitable. You can buy a unit of five ATMs. They've provided a 26.1% cash-on-cash return and high tax advantages. It's returned $2,262 per month. Learn more about ATMs at: GREmarketplace.com/ATM Car wash profits are enhanced with a subscription model. Few on-site employees are needed.  You can invest alongside a tech-forward car wash franchise, Tommy's Express Car Wash. The WSJ stated that no business other than car washes can create this much profit on a one acre lot. As society changes, EV, gas-powered, and diesel cars must all go through the car wash. ATMs and car washes demonstrate high operating margins and many tax advantages. You must be an accredited investor. Learn more about car washes at: GREmarketplace.com/CarWash Resources mentioned: Show Notes: www.GetRichEducation.com/448 Learn more about ATMs: GREmarketplace.com/ATM Learn more about Car Wash investing: GREmarketplace.com/CarWash Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Find cash-flowing Jacksonville property at: www.JWBrealestate.com/GRE Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  Top Properties & Providers: GREmarketplace.com Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free—text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Keith's personal Instagram: @keithweinhold   Speaker 0 (00:00:01) - Welcome to GRE! I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. It's been said that the average millionaire has seven different income streams. We're going to discuss two distinct income streams that you can add to your life today that lie on the periphery of real estate investing. They are low touch for you because they require little or no management. Today on Episode 448 of Get Rich Education.   Speaker 2 (00:00:29) - You are listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is Get Rich Education.   Speaker 0 (00:00:52) - Welcome to G R E from Altoona, PA to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is Get Rich Education. Well, you can't have just one income stream because that's entirely too close to zero. We're talking about two distinct income streams today. People really like the operator and his track record. In fact, he's a longtime friend of mine. We'll talk with him shortly next week. Here on the show, I'm gonna talk about the ways that you can raise the rent and add value to your property. But for today, besides the upside that gets many interested in these two income streams, most investments usually have pros and cons. So I'm gonna ask about the downside. In both, we're talking about the ability to add a couple thousand dollars to your residual income each month with the first of two income streams.   Speaker 0 (00:01:51) - ATMs, yes, automated teller machines. Remarkably, the operator has never missed the monthly distribution or the pro forma return target. What about the future use patterns of cash? Yes. Green dollar bills. We will discuss that. It seems as though ATMs just don't care when there's disruption and chaos in the marketplace. They just sit there, do their business and provide you with consistent monthly cash flow. We'll discuss exactly how much inflation, not a big deal to ATMs recession, they can deal with that. Pandemic ATMs breezed right through it. Is the use of cash in decline? Well, not with the demographic that ATMs serve. How about the political party in power? That just doesn't matter in fact, and perhaps is a little sad. The demographic that ATMs serve is one of the fastest growing in the United States to this group, cash is still the currency of choice. Some of them are unbanked or underbanked. First, we'll talk about ATMs then after that, another diverse income stream for you.   Speaker 0 (00:03:07) - What's it like to invest in ATMs and car washes and what's the direction of their future use patterns, for example, wouldn't cash use with ATMs B declining perhaps? Well, today's guest expert recently spoke about ATM and carwash investing at the Best Ever conference as alternative asset classes that can perform well over the next decade. And when he was finished speaking, there was a line formed at the back door waiting for him so that people could learn more. So settle in. Let's learn about what's happening. I'd like to welcome back onto the show, g r e, regular and super syndicator, Dave Zuck.   Speaker 3 (00:03:43) - Keith, thanks for having me back on your show. It's good to be back and I'm looking forward to having this discussion. I love it.   Speaker 0 (00:03:50) - Well, Dave, you know you've been here to discuss ATMs and car washes before, so we wanna get updates today, including what investor returns are like starting with ATMs. Really, that is a predominant thought about ATM investing today. It's that the use of this new technology like Apple Pay or coming cbd, CS, or even cryptocurrencies, are gonna cause cash use to decline. And I know that when you were here previously, we talked about year over year cash use and how that looks. So is that a question that you often get about just the use of cash that an at m spits out?   Speaker 3 (00:04:24) - Yeah, so one of the challenges to the ATM space in investor's minds in accredited investor's minds is, well, I don't use cash anymore. I'm guessing you don't use much cash anymore. I don't hardly ever use cash, right? And so that must mean that other people aren't using cash. That is the same as an investor thinking, well, I don't live in a C-class apartment building, so I guess nobody invests in C-class apartment buildings, right? So one of the things yes, is cash use in decline. The answer is yes to our peer group. But when you consider the fact that our demographic, who we serve, what I'm saying, saying our peer group, I'm talking about you and I, Keith and probably everybody who's listening to this show, we use last cash and we did three years, five years, 10 years, 20 years ago. Sure. Okay. But that demographic of people that we serve is one of the largest, one of the fastest growing groups in this country.   Speaker 3 (00:05:22) - It's when you really look at the facts. Look back in the early nineties, the Wall Street Journal, there's already a Wall Street Journal that talk about the death of cash. By the end of the nineties, cash wasn't gonna be around anymore. When I started, when I got in the ATM space 12 years ago, the kind of the talk on the street was, yeah, but you got Apple Pay and the Google Wallet and you got all these, this stuff coming on, cash is gonna be dead in two to three years from now. And the fact is, there's more than doubled the amount of currency and circulation today than there was 12 years ago. There's more currency in circulation today than any time in human history. And the peer group who we serve, the demographic who we serve, uses cash and almost transacts entirely in cash. And that's not going away. We've seen that increase. We've done a lot of market research, we see what's going on, but then we also see what's going on inside our own funds and how people are behaving. It's still a vibrant market.   Speaker 0 (00:06:14) - Yes. And you and I have discussed before how some businesses and jurisdictions have tried to ban cash use, but those bans were repealed and it was brought back that you're able to use cash. And you brought up such a brilliant analogy. You as an investor out there, you might be interested in investing in a C-class apartment building, even though if you would do that, you'd probably be less likely to live in one. So yes, a lot of times you're with your circle of friends, you're in your peer group and you tend to think like they do and everyone lives just like you do. But when we talk about different demographic groups from people that you usually hang out with, one reason I've learned through dealing with you over the years, Dave, is that ATMs are so lucrative for ATM investors because this is going to seem incomprehensible to you, the educated listener, but many ATM users pay two to $3 just to get access to a $20 bill. Imagine paying $3 to get access to a $20 bill. And you're thinking, well, who would do that? No one that I hang out with would do that. That's 15% of 15% surcharge to go ahead and access your own money. But yeah, I mean that's one reason why these people are financially disadvantaged, but that's why it's lucrative.   Speaker 3 (00:07:29) - Yeah. And for those people it's a way of life. And when you look at how a person's wage or ACH today, somebody works at a factory, their paycheck gets ACH right into their account. They transact in a lot of cash. You know, it saves them for two or $3. It saves them from getting in a car. Some of 'em don't even have a car or getting in into public transit and going down the road to a, the neighborhood bank where they bank at and then stand in line at a in front of a teller on a Friday night and to try and get, you know, 20, $5,000 in cash. You know that two or $3 to go down to the corner of convenience store. That's pretty inexpensive. But you're right. I mean, there's people who will pay two or $3 to get a $10 bill or $20 bill. It's just crazy.   Speaker 0 (00:08:18) - Now Dave just gave an excellent example because some people might think, are you taking advantage of these people? You're actually helping serve these people and give them an option? And one thing that I know that you really prioritize doing, Dave, with these a t m investments you've been helping people with for years where they can come invest alongside of you, is that for your physical at m locations, you choose high foot traffic areas.   Speaker 3 (00:08:44) - You've heard the saying, what's the three most important things about real estate and its location, location, location. Even more so in this investment because at its core this is a real estate investment. You're monetizing a two foot by two foot piece of real estate and you may be taken at two foot by two foot piece of real estate to its highest and best use. So you're monetizing that piece of real estate. But no, you're adding real value in a community and and serving a community, but it's a real estate play.   Speaker 0 (00:09:15) - Now if you are the listener and the viewer out there, if you think cash is going to disappear completely in say seven years, well then you probably wouldn't be interested in investing in something like this. But the more you read and the more you learn, the more you're gonna be informed on that. So talk to us a little bit more about the future of payments. Dave,   Speaker 3 (00:09:35) - You mentioned a seven year contract and that's what this is. It's a seven year deal. But when you consider the tax impact plus the first 12 months of cash flow and that first 12 months, you're getting about 60 to 70% of your principle back in that first 12 months from the time your cash flow starts, you're getting that first year's tax deduction, 80% right on the front end. You're getting about 60 to 70% of your principal back in that first 12 months. And then you've got an extra six years of cash flow behind that. So although it's a seven year deal, it's not like you have your money at risk for seven years. You get your money at risk count, the tax impact, you got your money at address for less than three years. It becomes a, not only is it a a really good cashflow and income stream play and you can start really beefing up your monthly cash flow, but it's also a tax plan. It's one of the ways that I keep myself tax efficient. You know, it's, you use that big chunk of depreciation in year one and you start getting yourself to the point where you're living the tax efficient life you start gaining on your wealth building journey. You can get momentum quick when you start applying some of those principles and using that depreciation offset, the tax liability and some other income.   Speaker 0 (00:10:52) - We're talking about how investors get 80% bonus depreciation right there at the beginning of a seven year hold time. And Dave, is there a specific number of ATMs that a specific investor owns?   Speaker 3 (00:11:08) - One unit is considered five or six ATMs and it matter, you know, it depends on what kind and sort of location. There's some ATMs that have dual monitors and there's two people using 'em at the same time. So it really depends on, on what ATM that is. But you're talking five or six ATMs for one unit. One unit is $104,000. We do sell half units now. So you can come in as low as $52,000, but that's how it works. You buy a unit of ATMs, you put 'em in our fund, we manage the fund for you, and you get a portion of that surcharge revenue. This is sort of a three-way split. You got the investor getting about a third of the income or 30% of the income. You get the store owner or the the location owner about roughly 30% of the income. And then you got the management company, which is where all the costs flow through. You get the management company getting about 40% of that income. So it's sort of a three-way split, but you're getting as close to the asset as you possibly can get without owning at yourself. And so you're just buying the units, you're paying us to manage them for you and making it totally passive.   Speaker 0 (00:12:18) - As Dave and I have talked about on a previous show, people use ATMs for more than just accessing cash. There are more use cases than just accessing cash. But Dave, when we get back to the numbers and we talk about why you have so many repeat investors that have invested in a lot of ATMs with you years ago and wanna come back and do this more. And that is because this is a cash flow centric investment besides being tax advantaged. However, you as an investor, you shouldn't expect much appreciation on your six or so ATMs that you hold for this seven year or so hold period. Those things are almost fully depreciated in value by the end of your hold period. But this is a tax efficient, cash flow centric investment. So Dave, tell us more about how that looks for the investor, because I know this is actually a highly predictable income stream for investors.   Speaker 3 (00:13:08) - It is highly predictable. We've never missed our monthly distribution payments. Yeah. And we've never missed our proforma and so highly predictable. And the depreciation, the way the depreciation works is it, it really you invest, you get that depreciation, you can use it to offset some other income and you got two choices. You can keep your income stream coming from your ATMs. You can keep that tax free for the first couple years or you can use that even more aggressively. You can use that depreciation, go off and and use it to offset the tax liability on some other income. At the end of the day, it's about living the tax efficient life down and getting out of those high tax brackets, getting out of that 37% tax bracket, moving yourself down into the twenties and the teen   Speaker 0 (00:13:58) - Reducing your marginal income tax bracket with offsets from this investment. People really celebrate your track record. Tell us about those cash on cash returns and just about that income stream that one has historically gotten.   Speaker 3 (00:14:14) - The cash on cash return is uh, right around 26. I think it's 26.1% cash on cash return. Yeah, the IRR is a bit lower. It's uh, right around a 20% i r r. And so you mentioned it earlier about how an at t m machine really actually does depreciate, like, and I'll give you sort of the analogy when you do, when you take depreciation against, let's say a multi-family apartment building and let's say 10 years down the road, you sell that multi-family apartment building for a gain, you not only pay tax on the gain, you also recapture all of that depreciation that you've used and, and now you get taxed on that as well. So it's very different in an at t m investment. In an at m investment, you don't recapture the depreciation, you get a tax break and that depreciation, you never recapture that. So you really need to almost count that into your total return because that affects your bottom line, that affects your tax impact and you never recapture it. And so you'll notice unlike brick and mortar where normally your cash and cash return is lower and your IRR is higher because you get that residue from sale here, it's flip flopped just totally different. And then you get a higher cash on cash return, a lower i r, but it's because of the loss of value of your equipment over that seven year period   Speaker 0 (00:15:36) - In real estate, when you relinquish a property and sell it, unless you do a 10 31 tax deferred exchange, yes you have to pay back the depreciation that you were writing off all of those years. You don't have that obstacle, you don't have that problem with ATMs. And yes, you typically hear about IRRs, which all call synonymously total rate of returns in your real estate as being higher than what your cash on cash return is. But here, this is inverted. This is a cash flow centric investment. And part of the reason why is because your machines, they do go down in value over time. Why your cash flow stays at a steady high rate, 26.1% in this case,   Speaker 3 (00:16:16) - It's been a fun asset class. And it's interesting, you know, you talk about how the depreciation works and you try to introduce somebody who's not real savvy on the tax side. You talk about how it works and how it will affect them, and then they see it on their tax return. It's like, oh my goodness, yeah that works. Like you said, I'm like, oh, well yeah, it becomes part of many of my investors' tax planning on an annual basis. It is part of my annual tax planning. And so it becomes one of those things where it's just easy to start kind of collecting 'em and, and making it sort of an annual thing where you just collect more at t ATM machines, keep yourself tax efficient and and really start building those massive income streams.   Speaker 0 (00:16:57) - Well, you can learn more and get ahold of the proforma and learn more about ATM performance and the projected future use patterns and how to get started as investor if this interests you at gre marketplace.com/atm. Dave, thanks for the great update on ATMs.   Speaker 3 (00:17:15) - All right, thanks Keith.   Speaker 0 (00:17:17) - You listening to get rich education. We've got more with Dave when we come back on car washes. Why they're so lucrative, especially when you add a subscription model. I'm your host Keith Wein. Hold with JWB real Estate Capital. Jacksonville Real Estate has outperformed the stock market by 44% over the last 20 years. It's proven to be a more stable asset, especially during recessions. Their vertically integrated strategy has led to 79% more home price appreciation compared to the average Jacksonville investor. Since 2013, JWB is ready to help your money make money, and to make it easy for everyday investors, get started@jwbrealestate.com slash g rre. That's JWB real estate.com/g rre GRE listeners can't stop talking about their service from Ridge Lending Group and MLS 40 2056. They've provided our tribe with more loans than anyone. They're truly a top lender for beginners and veterans. It's where I go to get my own loans for single family rental property up to four plexes. So start your pre-qualification and you can chat with President Chaley Ridge personally though even deliver your custom plan for growing your real estate portfolio. start@ridgelendinggroup.com.   Speaker 4 (00:18:44) - This is the Real Wealth Networks Kathy, Becky, and you are listening to the Always Valuable Get Rich Education with Keith Wine Hole.   Speaker 1 (00:19:04) - Welcome   Speaker 0 (00:19:04) - Back to Get Risk Education. Car washers are a remarkably lucrative real estate business. It's enhanced with a franchise model and selling subscriptions to car wash customers. That's how you get that recurring revenue. So a rainy week doesn't wash out your profits. In fact, in the Wall Street Journal it recently said, and I quote what they wrote here, there is no other operation on a one acre site that can do one to two and a half million dollars in sales and pocket half of that. So our guest expert, Dave, is back because he helps you get investment returns without having to actually operate the car wash yourself. So Dave, tell us more. I know for example, much like other real estate location of a car wash is vital   Speaker 3 (00:19:53) - Even more so with this type of car wash because the whole system is set up to get you a quality wash in two to three minutes. It's designed to get you off the road and back on the road in less than three minutes. So if you can put a really good product like this carwash, everybody that I've ever talked to, whether it's a franchisee, an owner, a a subscription customer or a one-time user, everybody gives Tommy's express carwash a giant thumbs up. It's about volume and you put that on a busy street corner or you know, there's all kinds of metrics that we like and you know, it's, you gotta be where people are already going. You're not creating a an environment where you're drawing people to somewhere you want to. It's all about creating habits. On a Monday morning, my wife gets in her car and she, about eight 15 in the morning, she goes down to Wegmans about a 15 minute drive.   Speaker 3 (00:20:50) - And I promise you if you would introduce her to Tommy's and she would get a car wash when she goes to Wegmans on that Monday morning, she would do that two or three times. She'd be a customer for life. Like she now created a habit kind of like a Starbucks creating a habit. So what we're doing is we're putting this asset in a really good location. Recreating an environment where you don't have to wait in line for 10, 15 minutes, five minutes, get your car wash. It's not one of those white glove people wiping your, it's automated. You get a really good quality wash in two to three minutes. You can get in and out quick.   Speaker 0 (00:21:26) - You help partner investor money with a model that's proving itself with the Tommy's Carwash Express franchise like you just mentioned. So technology really adds the efficiency of getting cars through the carwash quickly in order to make this more lucrative. And Tommy's is very tech forward. For example, I know that customers buy subscriptions and they typically use a phone app   Speaker 3 (00:21:52) - To the point of technology and efficiency. You know, you're talking, especially over the last three years now, what was one of the top concerns or one of the top challenges for employers was getting good quality people. I mean look no further when you go to busy restaurant and you know, I mean there there was some real challenges in finding good employees. One of the things, you know, and then this is due to some of the technology that you just mentioned. You know, we got, because of the systems and technology, we can run two to 300 cars per hour through the scar wash to get washed and maybe even better you can do that with two to three people on site. So very limited overhead in terms of wages employees, you can pay those employees much better because you don't have like 30 of 'em, you got three of 'em. And so really the whole business model, and it also comes back to what you shared earlier about the operating margins. You got 45 to 50% operating margins in this business. It's in terms of percentage, it's one of the most lucrative businesses that I know of and it's just fun business to be involved in.   Speaker 0 (00:23:00) - Yeah. Now when you talk about moving two to 300 cars per hour through a car wash, are you talking about, you know, physically we think of a car wash Now are we talking about one long tunnel with the rate like that? Or are we talking about multiple bays?   Speaker 3 (00:23:16) - Normally it's one long tunnel and the longer the tunnel, the more you can, you know, there's different speeds that you know the track will take you through. And there's different things inside the carwash you can activate depending on how busy, I mean it, it really is. They're real car wash nerves. I mean they're techies and it, they really did perfect this product to the point where let's say you have a 100 car wash hour where you're putting a hundred cars through in an hour and now now you get into the busy time where it's, you know, people are getting off of work where it, now you're ramping up to two to 300 cars per hour. The speed varies on the track and it's, you know, different features of inside the tunnel kind of kick in because of the volume. So there's a lot of automation, a lot of technology going on inside the wash   Speaker 0 (00:24:02) - As society changes, you know, whether it's a gasoline powered car or it's an EV or it's diesel, they all need to go through the car wash. We're talking about that rate at which cars get washed, which is actually pretty important because if I'm a car wash customer, you're talking about your wife's habits earlier with washing her car. If I think about getting my car washed, but I see a long line over there, why might not even go in and use that car wash. And then I'll start to think, oh well what good is my subscription? So keeping that wash tunnel moving also keeps the line short besides increasing your rate of income.   Speaker 3 (00:24:37) - Yeah, for sure. And there is, you know, talking about subscriptions, we're not all about subscriptions, but there's kind of a sweet spot and we figured out that sweet spot's somewhere into 55, somewhere between 50 and 60%. It's where you really want your subscription numbers to be. You don't want 100% subscription model. If you were at 90%, that means your subscription model, you're not priced right. Almost like charging $500 a month for your apartment building and you're always a hundred percent occupancy. It's not good.   Speaker 0 (00:25:09) - It's a problem. Not   Speaker 3 (00:25:10) - Joking. Yeah, that is a problem. Yeah. So that's sort of the things we're watching. We do want a nice mix of retail customers. We think kind of that sweet spots in that 50 to 60% subscription model range.   Speaker 0 (00:25:22) - Oh that's a great point. And that's really interesting when you think about business models and a lot like apartment buildings, car washes are based on their income stream amount, but you're gonna have a different set of expenses with a car wash than you will. And apartment building of course, like you're going to have expenses for example, for water and detergent. Dave spoke a bit about how they keep the labor costs down by having fewer people on site, largely through the use of technology. So we're talking about an innovative car wash type here that's proven itself. Tommy's expressed car wash, their footprint geographically just keeps expanding and expanding and expanding. And in fact Dave, I know when we talked about this last year at least, that that time only Panera Bread in Chick-fil-A, they were the only two franchises that had higher sales revenue per location. Wow.   Speaker 3 (00:26:11) - We're at number three and we're hoping to get to number two here in short order. But, uh, chick-fil-A, that's a hard one to beat , but uh, yeah, no, it's uh, one of the top performing franchises in the anti our country,   Speaker 0 (00:26:24) - Chick-fil-A. Those two crucial pickles on that chicken sandwich. You know, it's, it's really hard to, to compete with there. You need a really efficient car wash to outdo that as far as it is on the investment end and how that actually looks like for one that wants to come alongside you and participate. Before we talk about what the returns look like, talk a a bit about how that is looking for current investors that are already in this investment. Since we first discussed this last year,   Speaker 3 (00:26:52) - We launched this fund as a debt fund. We got into it fairly slowly. We were building a couple washes and we knew that it was gonna ramp up, but we had a lot of work to do on the front end. We were, we had lots that were under contract that we were working on permitting. So we started as a debt fund. We launched phase two as sort of a semi equity, I mean it was an equity fund but it, it sort of captain investor 1.75. You got all the depreciation. The depreciation was not, you didn't have to recapture the depreciation cuz you're dealing with a lot of equipment. In fact, car washes are very unique in that you can take bonus depreciation on the building as if it were equipment. Like you don't need cost sake studies, you don't need you just bonus depreciation the thing out like, you know, the entire building, like it was a piece of equipment right up front.   Speaker 3 (00:27:39) - First year, that's rare. Yeah. And then we sort of ran through that model and we have eight operational sites today. We have seven more coming outta the ground right now. We expect to be somewhere around 20, uh, fully operational by the end of the year. And here's the exciting part, here's the fun part. We're we're looking to build a hundred of these in five years. Wow. And so to really ramp up and take us, get us into phase three and phase two worked great. Investors got all the depreciation, they got all of the cash flow. I'm working free by the way. They got all of the cash flow until they get to their 1.75 and then they exit, then the GP partners start making money. But that model why it worked very good and it's gonna get us to about 30 ish car washes. We're ramping up.   Speaker 3 (00:28:33) - We wanna go under and we're retooling our model. Now that we've uh, got a little bit of experience under our belt, we see how our operations team is operating and see how these car washes are really taken off and really how our team has made these things perform. We want to go to a hundred and to get to a hundred, we're retooling the model. Our investors have spoken. They said, man, we really wanna be, you know, a little bit, kind of give some of that backside you talked about the Wall Street Journal article on Wall Street Journal came out and said that there's PE firms paying 18 to 20 x multiples on EBITDAs and it's just super aggressive. So our investors like to hear that, but they wanted a piece of the upsides. We listened to our investors, okay, we're rolling out an equity model.   Speaker 0 (00:29:19) - And just to back up to jump in. So Dave had been talking about the debt side about how previously this was a raise on the debt side and now in the future going forward, this is how you can get in on the equity side investment of car washes.   Speaker 3 (00:29:32) - It is an equity model and it's gonna allow the investors, it's gonna allow all of our investors to not only be a part of the backend, but there's gonna be a 10% preferred return. There's gonna be aggressive cash flow throughout the hold and the exit. Um, investors gonna be with us all the way through and be a part of that upside, be a part of the exit.   Speaker 0 (00:29:54) - Talk to us about any of the threats that might be out there, whether that's threats to just the overall model of car washes five, 10 or 20 years down the road, and then what the competition is like Tommy's expressed car wash versus other car washes. What are some of the threats   Speaker 3 (00:30:10) - We've seen, much like our investors have spoken and expressed their desires to be a part of the upside and we're getting ready to rule that out to 'em. The general public has given their opinion, uh, with their wallets. And so when you get to understand this model and, and how it works, and then you start paying attention to a lot of the other car washes out there and the look and appearance and how they work. And it takes longer and there's lines and you know, some of 'em are full service and you know, it's pretty inconsistent, but consumers have spoken and they want this product and Tommy's kind of the innovative leader in the car space. And so they're really all about just listening to the consumer and get them what they want. Consumers want a good quality wash for a fair price and they want to get it quickly and efficiently. And that's what we're delivering. So there's competition in the space. There's only one or two competitors of ours who we would say, okay, they are there so we're not building across the street. There's not really a need for us to be there if there's that competitor is there. But most of our competitors, if we were to put a Tommy's Express in a neighborhood, we would steal the show and we have what consumers want and they'll come to us.   Speaker 0 (00:31:30) - When I think about long-term use patterns, Dave, just anecdotally I think of my own lifespan, I only seem to notice more car washes in cities as time goes on per capita. Not fewer. In fact, growing up my dad used to wash his car by hand in or right next to the garage or old Subaru legacy station wagon. Sometimes I would help him out. Well, he doesn't wash it anymore. It's more efficient to go drive through a car wash. That almost seems to be a vestige of yester year where you would regularly wash your own car in your driveway.   Speaker 3 (00:32:02) - Well there's two things there. One is there's a lot more people live in an apartment buildings and, and less out in the country in suburbia. So the, even having the ability to wash your car in some places doesn't make sense. But there's another thing too. You know that by the time I started regularly using a car wash where I actually had to pay some organization to wash my car, I could have bought the car wash . Now, I mean you see it all the time. You got teenagers who's got a nice vehicle and they don't even think twice. They're going through and spending eight or 10 or 15 bucks to wash their car. And I was like, oh my goodness. Okay. But times are changing and it's becoming a standard thing to get your car wash, your car wash and forget the garden hose and the bucket and the soap,   Speaker 0 (00:32:43) - The carwash I use most regularly, the highest tier one now costs $18. That's where they use, you know, rain X on the windshield and everything else. But as far as when it comes to the investor perspective, this is one of those investments, Dave, where you recently spoke at the conference that people are lining up at the back of the room to want to learn more because they're so interested in this investment. I know oftentimes car washes have high cash flow and high tax efficiency for the investors. So tell us about how that's expected to look here On the equity side,   Speaker 3 (00:33:13) - You get a hundred percent bonus appreciation over five years. You get a big chunk of that in the first year because of the amount of development that we have in the fund, you're getting less than half of it the first year, around half of it, maybe just a little bit less than half of it the first year. So you get a big chunk of your depreciation in year one and then you get the rest of the depreciation and it's four years following that. It's a pretty aggressive on the depreciation side. But then on the cash flow side, 10% preferred returns. You've got multiples that are in the two and a half to three x in five to seven years, you're talking aggressive returns and you're talking aggressive, uh, bonus depreciation for tax impact,   Speaker 0 (00:33:57) - You need to be an accredited investor. And what's the minimum investment?   Speaker 3 (00:34:02) - So minimum investment is a hundred thousand dollars and you do need to be an accredited investor.   Speaker 0 (00:34:07) - Tell us about the expected hold time.   Speaker 3 (00:34:09) - We're modeling it five to seven years. So while a private equity firm and with Sam some pretty lucrative offers already, but we've seen, let me back up a second. So this industry is so fragmented that the biggest player in the room has accounts for about 5% of the global revenue. Wow. So that's how fragmented this space is. So there's real opportunity and institutions are desperately trying to get their foot in the door because they see that it's a recession resistant business. They see that it's a, it's got strong operating margin. The Wall Street Journal talked about that where, you know, just crazy operating margin. So they're desperately trying to get their foot in the door and get a foothold in the space and get a little traction in the space. They're not hardly any people who they can write a hundred million checks to. We're building a portfolio that somebody would be able to write a billion dollar check for in a couple years. And so when that happens, we feel like the more mature this space, the more mature this portfolio is, the more cream we can squeeze out for our investors. And so that's where we're going with it. We don't believe that we exit in two to three years, but it could happen. But we're modeling out for five to seven years   Speaker 0 (00:35:30) - In case it takes that long to Sure. Get returns on the conservative side, five to seven years. And yeah, I, I learned a little something there. Okay. The biggest player in the space only has about a 5% share. Very fractured, much like real estate itself is well day's, one of our G R E marketplace providers, you probably already know that. So if you wanna learn more, I'd encourage it and see what makes this business so lucrative. You could do that at gre marketplace.com/carwash. Dave, it's really been stimulating to think about some of these alternative real estate investments. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Speaker 3 (00:36:07) - Thanks Rob me Keith. It was fun   Speaker 0 (00:36:15) - On the ATMs with 100 4K invested that has recently generated $2,262 per month, 2262. And they've never missed the monthly distribution or their proforma return target. And if you go invest quite a bit more than that amount, there is something new to announce. And that is the existence of financing with ATM investments that has the potential to amplify your return some more. So with ATMs, it's a strong cash on cash returns and the I R R along with the quick return of capital, that's what's making it so popular. They have been delivering them to this group for more than a decade now. Now the operator, Dave, he's really proud of what they're doing and that's why he wants to give the opportunity for you to get on the ground in person and see just what they're doing. In fact, in only 10 days, there's a car wash and self storage investor tour.   Speaker 0 (00:37:19) - Yes, it is a one day investor tour on May 18th in Columbia, South Carolina. And you are invited. You'll see a Tommy's Express carwash and Moore meet the team, ask questions about the business plan. There is no cost to attend. You can meet Dave there as well. You'll learn more about that and with hotel accommodations and everything else after you get the free investor report. At G R E Marketplace, we're talking about world class operators in the car wash space here. When you have multiple diverse income streams in your life, what you've done is you've made your income resilient. So to connect more and learn more and see proformas on adding an income stream to your life in the at m space, if that interests you, start@gremarketplace.com slash atm. For car washes, visit gre marketplace.com/wash. Until next week, I'm your host Keith Wein. Hold. Don't quit your daydream.   Speaker 5 (00:38:27) - Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial, or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of Get Rich Education L L C exclusively.   Speaker 6 (00:38:55) - The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com.

In this episode, David is joined again by Akiva Katz, one of the founders of Bow Street LLC, an event-driven hedge fund manager, to discuss their litigation financing strategy. Aiming to produce IRRs in excess of 15 to 20% p.a. from litigation financing, Bow Street finds and purchases litigation assets in which guilt has already been established and the outcome is no longer binary. In these cases the question changes from will there be to damages, to "How much are the damages?". Akiva Katz, and his business partner, Howard Shainker, became friends in 2004 at Harvard Business School. There they came up with the idea for Bow Street, named after a street in Cambridge, Massachusetts, near the restaurant where they would meet to talk about their plan. Believing that economic conditions would be setting up for a momentous event-driven climate over the next several years, they wanted to create a hedge fund that would combine research-intensive approach with an event-driven mentality.

Jefferson is a mobile home park investment expert and educator. He is the founder of Park Avenue Partners. a private equity real estate fund that acquires and operates mobile home parks nationwide. His investment funds are returning 10% - 15% IRRs to Limited Partners. Both personally and through his partnerships, Jefferson has acquired 31 MHPs in 15 states since 2007 totaling over $7lmm in value. He started the industry's first MHP podcast and the largest group on LinkedIn dedicated to investing in mobile home parks. Prior to beginning to manage investors' money in 2014, Jefferson spent seven years investing his own capital in mobile home parks and consulting to high-net-worth families with interests in the manufactured housing industry. Jefferson has been featured in The New York Times, Bloomberg Magazine, and on the Real Money television show. He holds a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from the Wharton School of Business. Get in touch with Jefferson: Park Avenue Partners website: https://www.parkavenuepartners.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonlilly/ For informational purposes only. Always consult with professionals. This is not meant to be used as legal or tax advice or otherwise. Any projections, opinions, assumptions, or estimates used are for example only. All information should be independently verified and is subject to errors and omissions. Check out some of our other videos and listings: PreReal Podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgZYyrkRyU&list=PLbyMUN39hTNWUFWH-tprcR0sTOwdqCfuk PreReal™, Prendamano Real Estate of staten island, NY is a real estate marketing firm that is focused on lead generation for all its properties for sale. More leads equals bigger pockets in the end for everyone. If you are house hunting and looking for a house for sale don't hesitate to give us a call (718)200-7799. If you think it is time to sell your house, we can get you top dollar for your property. Visit us at www.prereal.com Follow us on: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PrendamanoRealEstate Instagram: @prerealpodcast @prerealestate TikTok: @prerealestate Twitter: @prerealestate #RealEstate #Tips #PreReal

Steve Kim (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenrkim/), Partner and head of Investment Strategy at Verdis, a 9-generation single family office, joins Olga Serhiyevich (@olgaserhi), Head of Investor Relations at Village Global, on this episode. Takeaways: Early stage venture is a power law asset class where the returns of the asset class are driven by outliers. The best way to increase probability of getting asset class rate of return is by increasing variance in the portfolio through diversification. Pattern matching tends to reduce variance and contrary to industry's beliefs, is undesirable from the systematic approach perspective. There is no limit to diversification beyond practical limitations of being able to see and invest in all the relevant deals for GPs. 20-30 portfolio companies is a typical level of diversification in other asset classes including growth equity and buyout where returns are normally distributed. In early stage venture (pre-seed to Series A) this level of diversification is less likely to produce industry average returns on a consistent basis. The average rate of unicorn production is 1-2% in the industry but it varies across sectors, vintage years and geographies. So, Verdis chooses to maximize diversity across the number of companies, sectors and vintages because there is no clear indication in data that subsets of those are more likely to produce outliers but invest with a bias towards key geographies due to higher concentration of unicorns there. Most of the outliers in the US of the last decade came from two geographies - California and New York. The magnitude of these outliers was also significantly greater than unicorn companies built elsewhere. For example, on average it takes 4 non-California outliers to equal the magnitude of outcome of a California unicorn. Startup exit data from other geographies looks a lot more normally distributed which calls for a different approach. Data-driven investment strategy's main drawback is the backward-looking nature of the approach. But it's useful in that it provides a systematic approach to guide portfolio construction. If managers believe that the part of the VC asset class they focus on follows power law distribution, then they would want to have the most diversified portfolio as possible with a lot more than traditional 10-20 companies. In the power law world, losses don't matter. One of the key insights from investing in venture for almost two decades is that most managers are going to stage-drift. Allocating to emerging managers who often focus on early stage due to smaller fund sizes and comfort with first check investing is one way for LPs to hedge against stage-drift. In Verdis's view, low reserves and quick capital deployment cycle is advantageous to LPs focused on multiples not IRRs.Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform.Check us out on the web at www.villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Want to get updates from us? Subscribe to get a peek inside the Village. We'll send you reading recommendations, exclusive event invites, and commentary on the latest happenings in Silicon Valley. www.villageglobal.vc/signup

With cap rates having gone as low as they arguably can go, multifamily operators are going to have to add deep value to properties moving forward to meaningfully increase their asset value. They can no longer rely on cap rate compression to generate high IRRs and returns for their investors. At this point, only the strongest operators will generate the kind of profits we've seen over the past few years. Steven Gesis, COO at Smartland, started in Northeast Ohio rehabbing, modernizing, and standardizing old D – C+ apartments that blew their competition out of the water. Smartland innovated the approach to renovations in this class of properties including the installation of wireless packages, putting in EV charging stations, renovating pools & gyms, planting gardens, even opening on-property convenience stores, Subway sandwich shops, and more. They've recently expanded to Miami with the same formula but with higher upside because of the exploding rents in South Florida. As a result of Smartland's approach, they've generated consistently outsized returns for their investors.

Less than 3% of venture capital funding goes to women founders.  Yet studies show that women founders drive two times as much revenue as male founders and have better IRRs. Bobbi Kurshan and Kathy Hurley wrote InnovateHERs to highlight female business leaders and discover how women can leverage their entrepreneurial mindset to advance their careers. The book features the stories 29 entrepreneurial women, including those that overcame immense adversity including abject poverty, to achieve successes.  Each story is more inspiring then the prior, but decades of research into Entrepreneurial Mindset Profiles provides a framework to view their successes. Kurshan describes how purpose driven female leaders tend to overcome the propensity of women to be risk adverse.  In effect, female entrepreneurs are more likely to find their calling from a passion borne of empathy. Bobbi Kurshan describes how women can build their network, discover their passion, to become INNovateHERs.

If you're looking for expert insights into interesting real estate niches, then this episode is for you!   Sunrise Capital CEO Kevin Bupp sits down with us to break down three asset classes they're investing in. With two decades of experience, he has $150M real estate transactions under his belt and is a thought leader in generating cash flow and building wealth. Today, Kevin gives his perspective on the mobile home park market and the challenges in the space. He also gets down to the nitty-gritty of build-to-rent and what makes it a promising investment to consider. Lastly, he shares what they are working on in the parking sector and explains their long-term hold strategy for their deals.     [00:01 - 04:52] Mobile Home Park Investing Get to know Kevin Running the first mobile home park-specific podcast There's a huge supply and demand imbalance in the mobile home park market Large institutions and private equity investors are pouring money into the space Finding good deals is becoming difficult for small and medium-sized investors   [04:53 - 15:11] The Opportunities in the Build-To-Rent Space Kevin emphasizes the need for focus when investing in an asset Parking and build-to-rent are similar in terms of not being too operationally-intensive  Data shows that there is a great demand for housing Kevin discusses the market in Florida and Phoenix  Build-to-rent houses have a long-term purpose Materials and build are of better quality What does urban infill mean? The importance of strategic partnerships to succeed in a location This is the fastest-growing asset class and there's a lot of institutional interest   [15:12 - 25:14] Long-Term Stable Cash Flow Why Kevin and his team are not building to sell It takes work to flip in and out of properties, not only for the company but also for the sponsors There is value in small consistent wins Kevin talks about their current parking project and its potential for cash flow   [25:15 - 26:35] Closing Segment Reach out to Kevin!  Links Below Final Words Tweetable Quotes   “I think that you lose focus and you dilute your strength in any particular asset class when you're getting pulled in a million different directions.” - Kevin Bupp   “I think one of the most exciting about built-to-rent is being able to actually purposely build a product today for long-term rental uses.” - Kevin Bupp   “Knowledge is one thing, but having those strategic relationships are necessary, not even just with brokers, but also the municipality, the planning, zoning boards.” - Kevin Bupp   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------   Connect with Kevin! Find out investment opportunities with Sunrise Capital on their website. Head over to KevinBupp.com to know more about Kevin and his Real Estate Investing for Cash Flow podcast, and get a FREE copy of his book, The Cash Flow Investor.   Connect with me:   I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook   LinkedIn   Like, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on.  Thank you for tuning in!   Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:   [00:00:00] Kevin Bupp: So when you find a great mobile home park or, or even a great parking asset in a very strategic location and a growing marketplace where the demand is increasing. It's going to be very challenging to ever replace that particular asset. And I feel very much the same about these, these build-to-rent properties that we're building. And so, while I'm not going to say that we'll never sell any of these developments, that is not our intent. Our intent is to actually build to hold and ultimately, you know, build a portfolio of these strategically located infill locations and build a portfolio out of it. And so not saying that we might not flip one out to, you know, to an institution to lower our basis overall, but generally speaking, we're looking at a 10-year horizon here.  [00:00:50] Sam Wilson: Kevin Bupp. Welcome to the show.  [00:00:52] Kevin Bupp: Sam. Thanks for having me, excited to be here.  [00:00:54] Sam Wilson: Hey, man, the pleasure's mine. Appreciate you coming on today. There are three questions I ask every guest who comes to the show: in 90 seconds or less, can you tell me, where did you start? Where are you now? And how did you get there?  [00:01:03] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, fantastic. Started about 21 years ago, started buying a single-family, fixed and flip properties. Did a bunch of wholesaling as well. Built up quite a large portfolio in my early twenties of about 130 single-family rental homes at a few hundred multifamily doors. [00:01:17] Sam Wilson: Wow.  [00:01:17] Kevin Bupp: Fast forward to today, been a full-time investor for two-plus decades. I've owned pretty much every different asset type out there, you know, office retail, industrial, self-storage, medical office. You know, today we are primarily focused on three different sectors of our business, one being manufactured housing, which we've spent the last decade in, the second being parking investments, which we've been in for a few years now. And then the fourth and probably one of the most exciting ones that we're currently involved in are built-to-rent projects, more specifically built-to-rent projects in urban infill locations in Phoenix, Arizona.  [00:01:52] Sam Wilson: That's a lot of moving parts. You're well known, obviously, for your podcast on mobile home park investing. And I think you run two different shows, don't you? There's a Real Estate Investing For Cash Flow and then... [00:02:03] Kevin Bupp: I do. We have a mobile home park-specific podcast as well. I don't post any new episodes. I haven't for a few years, but we've got a, you know, 150 or so up there, and it still just kind of does its thing. [00:02:12] Sam Wilson: Gotcha. Okay. Very, very cool. I mean, mobile home parks has been a hot asset class. Can you kind of give us, you know, and maybe that's, to some degree, you know, due to you, you know, kind of advertising the asset class, but I mean, tell us about it. Where has it been? Where is it now? And you know, where do you see opportunity on that front?  [00:02:30] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, it's, it's a great question. You know, it's funny, my, my business partner always kind of jokes with me that, you know, we probably did train some of our competition. We were the first podcast out there and, you know, for many years we were the only, you know, there was a little bit of other information out there in the marketplace, but, you know, we were the only podcast really speaking about it and, you know, kind of sharing techniques and strategies. And it's, you know, it's an asset class that has a diminishing supply. And so there's a massive supply-demand imbalance. You know, the demand has, you know, significantly increased over the last five plus years with, you know, just a number of larger institutions and private equity investors trying to really pour billions upon billions of dollars into the space where they had always overlooked historically, right? And so they're, you got all this money trying to come in, no new supply coming to the marketplace and it's just, it's created just a severe imbalance. And so, you know, we started buying parks 10 years ago. And, you know, back then it was, it was very mom and pop, which there's still aspects of that today. It's not fully consolidated, but it's I tell you that it's racing towards consolidation pretty quickly. So 10 years ago where we might have been, you know, the only bid on a deal or maybe there's, you know, one or two others we'd have, you know, had a much easier time of winning an opportunity back then than we would today. [00:03:40] Kevin Bupp: And so, you know, they're, they're training at all time, low cap rates, in fact, data showed that at some point during the middle of the pandemic, you know, multifamily had always, at least over the last decades, it's been the asset class that has traded at the lowest cap rate, historically, at least for the past 10 years. Mobile home parks actually took over multifamily as far as, you know, where the average capric or trading at. And it was, it was sub-four level for a period of time. And they're still pretty much, they're down there today. You know, the institutions are just trying to gobble as much as they can. And, ultimately, it's made it a little more challenging for investors such as us, I guess you could say smaller, medium size investors and, you know, I don't necessarily have a cost to capital that would allow me to buy a stable four cap property that doesn't have upside. However, institutions they've got different sources of capital that typically is much cheaper than that of retail capital. And so there's still deals out there as, you know, you just got to pound the pavement more, you've got to, you know, turn over more rocks and find those needles in the haystacks. And they're there and we find that we just don't necessarily find it as many as we might have found years prior.  [00:04:42] Sam Wilson: Right. Yeah. I think that's a really good synopsis there. I appreciate you taking the time, you know, to share on that. I mean, if anybody says that there's no deals out there, then they're probably right. You know, 'cause that's...  Tell me about this though. I mean, you guys have found some other asset classes and especially want to hear, you know, what you guys are doing on the build to rent. That's your latest and greatest kind of foray. Why do you see an opportunity there? You just talk to us about that if you can.  [00:05:06] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, no, no, absolutely. And you, I will say that, you know, we're the type of group that we really like to, we like to stay in our lane. You know, we, we, don't like to be everything to everybody. I think that you lose focus and you dilute your strength in any particular asset class when you're, you know, getting pulled in a million different directions. And so, you know, we had focused solely on mobile home parks, literally for, for seven years. That's all we did. We just kind of ignored all the other noise out there. You know, there's a million, one different ways to make money in real estate. And we, we chose that lane and we wanted to be the best at it. Parking came across our radar screen about four years ago, it took us a few years before we even dove into that space. And that space is a little different, you know, it doesn't necessarily, as far as the operational side of it, we don't have vertical integration, a vertically integrated property management company for the parking sector. We just work with, you know, local and regional operators in whatever particular marketplace we own in. [00:06:00] Kevin Bupp: And so while there's asset management involved, we're not necessarily having to hire a lot of in-house employees to run that side of our business. And so it's not set it and forget it, but it's not as operationally intensive as mobile home parks. And again, we took a couple of years of really understanding that asset class before we dove into it. And really the same, the same is true with build to rent. And, you know, at the end of the day, build the rent, it's residential, right? I mean, it's, it's, it's residential housing and, you know, it's, it's similar to that of single-family rentals. It's similar to that of multifamily apartment complexes. It's similar to that of mobile home parks. It's just a different form. It's purpose-built, you know, residential housing. And so the projects that we have working in Phoenix are four urban infill locations. These are, you know, main, main on main locations, irreplaceable locations, walkable to all the nightlife restaurants, locations that you know, don't run the necessary risk of, of being on the outskirts of when the music stops, right? We've got a massive shortage of housing. Right now, the music is going to play for many years to come. The data will show that, like, anywhere between 4 to 5 million, you know, homes that we're short at the present time or residential units that we're short at the present time. And we're not nearly producing enough to ever catch up to that anytime soon. You know, again, data comes from all different streams, but one would say that it's literally going to take us 10 years to even, truly, you know, get caught up at any pace whatsoever. I mean, we're literally, we're still falling behind at present time. [00:07:26] Kevin Bupp: And so, you know, we love Phoenix. I mean, Phoenix is just a, it's a very dynamic marketplace. You know, a lot of fortune companies there and moving there. It's a very diverse local economy as well. It's very different than what it was prior to the great recession. It's kind of, I like to compare it to Florida. Like, Florida is a very different state than what it was prior to 2008. Prior to 2008, it wasn't very economically diverse. It was heavily weighted and the construction side of things. So when we had an oversupply of homes and the music kind of stopped down here, a lot of those jobs, those folks that had no jobs anymore moved away. And so we had a, we had a population actually moved away for a period of time and ultimately in excess of housing. Today, that's a very different case and the same goes with Phoenix. And so just super excited about those properties. And, and again, really, I think one of the most exciting about built to rent is being able to actually purposely build a product today for long-term rental uses, not necessarily taking a townhome that was built to sell and then, you know, converting it into a long term rental. And so we're putting a lot of thought energy and focus into the materials that we use and the overall quality of build. So these things are durable and can withstand, you know, the, I'm not going to say abuse 'cause not everyone abuses their rentals, but. They typically see a little bit more abuse than a standard, you know, homeowner might put on a home.  [00:08:46] Sam Wilson: Yeah, certainly nobody washes their rental car idea. I mean, it's like, it's going to undergo more abuse than, you know, just a regular home, typically. Tell me, purpose-built. When you say that, like, what are the things you're doing? How is the build changing on a build to rent versus, you know, again, a house that somebody's building to go...  [00:09:04] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, just a couple of simple things. I mean, even things such as, like the kitchen cabinets, right? We're not literally just going to put the builder-grade kitchen cabinets in. They're going to be more of a mid-grade quality, you know, solid wood and something. That's going to be more durable than some type of, you know, Formica or, you know, I don't, I don't know what they use in, you know, the cheap builder, great stuff, but basically a lot of mid-tier to higher tier components. So even down to like faucets, toilets, things that a lot of people just don't think about a lot, you know, those types of things that we don't think about them, and that's why in builder grade builds, they're literally cheap. They pick the cheapest toilets, they pick the cheapest faucets. They picked the cheapest flooring instead of the four mill flooring or instead of the six mill flooring, which they should be putting in, it's the three or four mill thickness flooring, right? So just little things like that, that the average homeowner doesn't think about that, ultimately, you know, we want to ensure that we're not, every turn that we have, we're not going in and having to replace, you know, these types of components that ultimately become very expensive if you don't do it right from the get-go. [00:10:02] Sam Wilson: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I'm thinking about things like, and, and I'm probably even not even using the right words here, but like when you mention faucets like copper components versus plastic, it's like, yeah, this the plastic stuff's going to break in like 90 days.  [00:10:14] Kevin Bupp: Absolutely.  [00:10:15] Sam Wilson: Yeah. [00:10:15] Kevin Bupp: It looks good when it's new. [00:10:18] Sam Wilson: It sure does.  [00:10:19] Kevin Bupp: Yeah. Yeah. But look at it 6 to 12 months later and you'll find that it, yeah, it surely wasn't durable. [00:10:24] Sam Wilson: Right. Absolutely. Tell me about urban infill. When you say that, is this, are you guys, you know, buying and building an entire neighborhood at a time? Is it one lot at a time? How, how does that work? [00:10:34] Kevin Bupp: No, that's, that's a great question. So these particular four projects I was speaking to are townhome projects. So, two and then three story townhome, you know, contemporary, modern townhome projects. And when I say urban infill, these are, you know, each one of these sites, the majority of these sites had something else on it. You know, an old, an old building of some sort, or, you know, maybe a few homes on, you know, a couple of parcels that we've, that we've combined. But the average, you know, the small, the smallest size of these four projects, one is 21 units and the largest of these four projects is roughly 50 units. And so these are not, they're not full-blown at scale neighborhoods, but they're also not individual units as well. You're somewhat constricted to, you know, what you can build in urban infill locations, 'cause very rarely are you going to find yourself to where you can assemble, you know, multiple acres, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 acres in these urban locations. And so, you know, we're talking a couple, you know, 3, 4, 5-acre tracks of land at, at the largest. And so again, somewhat restricted to what you could actually put there.  [00:11:35] Sam Wilson: I mean, that's kind of a needle in a haystack. I would think to be able to find, you know, again, even 4 or 5 acres in a, in an urban infill location, that's not already developed or not, you know, way overpriced. So how do you find opportunity on that front? I mean, is that just boots in the ground that know the area?  [00:11:51] Kevin Bupp: That is boots on the ground. Yeah, so we've got a partnership. We, we basically partner with, he's a very close friend of mine. He runs a group called Urban Phoenix. He's been a developer for 20-plus years and, you know, cut his teeth in Manhattan for a decade. And ultimately has been, you know, working in the Phoenix marketplace, has the relationships, you know, he does seem to have the relationships. They've got the local market knowledge that's necessary, you know, to think that myself and my team, you know, we're not, we're based in Florida, we're not based in Phoenix. [00:12:17] Kevin Bupp: Phoenix is a, it's a very large MSA. To think that, you know, we would just go there and be able to, you know, be successful in our own, I think would be silly thinking. You know, it takes quite some time to build that, not just the local market knowledge. Knowledge is one thing, but actually having those strategic relationships that are necessary and not even just with brokers, but also the municipality, you know, with the planning, zoning boards and, and knowing those individuals. And so the team that we're working with, the partnership that we formed, they've, they've been in that marketplace now for a decade and know it quite well. And so that's the strategic advantage that we really have in this particular project. [00:12:53] Sam Wilson: Absolutely. What are the compelling metrics in the build-to-rent space? I mean, clearly, you know, you told us in mobile home parks, you've seen them trade at a sub-four cap. So there has to be some more compelling kind of metrics surrounding build to rent.  [00:13:06] Kevin Bupp: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. So I was just at the IMN conference down in Miami. I guess it's been about a month now. And, lots of smaller time and medium size investors in the residential space. However, over the last couple of years, it's, it's really morphed into not just residential investments, but built to rent really as its own category now at these IMN conferences. And, there was a large number of institutions being represented at these IMN conferences. In fact, they have, IMN now puts on, I think, two a year, built to rent specific conferences. One's actually coming up, I believe it's in, in Vegas sometime here in September. So coming up in a few months, but basically the institutions, it's literally the fastest growing sector, you know, or asset class. And it wasn't even considered an asset class until very recently, literally over the last decade. In fact, it's still trying to find its identity, right? You meet folks that say, they call it build-to-rent, some call it build-for-rent. Some do B for R, you know, I mean like it's, it doesn't really even have its true identity yet. But what it does have is it has a ton of interest on the institutional side. The challenge is that there's not enough supply. You know, most institutional investors don't want to get involved on the development side. They don't want to be there. They want to, they want to buy the product either at CFO or already occupied. They want to buy a stabilized property. [00:14:23] Kevin Bupp: And, and so a lot of them have, they're willing to take to CFO, but there's not even enough homes being built right now for them to actually, you know, fill their coffers enough. And so when I say that, you know, we, we talk about mobile home parks and, and multifamily trading at just all-time historical low cap rates, built for rent, actually, you know, takes the cake there. Green Street and, and all the other data aggregators out there, they're following it. There's information about it, but not as mature as what we'll find here over the next five and 10 years, as it finally gets its own identity and truly becomes an asset class. But in any event, they typically trade for anywhere in two and a half ranges to, you know, sub-four range. So two and a half to the four is what cap rates these things trade on if they're being sold off at, you know, at stabilized, at a stabilized period of time. [00:15:11] Sam Wilson: Right. And so I guess that's my final question is what's the exit, you know, for you guys?  [00:15:15] Kevin Bupp: Yeah. So yeah, no, that's, that's a great question. We're not really looking to build to sell. You know, building in these strategic locations, like, you can't replace them, you know? So it's kinda like how I always felt about mobile home parks and we have sold mobile home parks, but we know they're not making anymore, right? And so when you find a great mobile home park or, or even a great parking asset in a very strategic location and a growing marketplace where the demand is increasing. It's going to be very challenging to ever replace that particular asset. And I feel very much the same about these, these build-to-rent properties that we're building. And so, while I'm not going to say that we'll never sell any of these developments, that is not our intent. Our intent is to actually build to hold and ultimately, you know, build a portfolio of these strategically located infill locations and build a portfolio out of it. And so not saying that we might not flip one out to, you know, to an institution to lower our basis overall, but generally speaking, we're looking at a 10-year horizon here.  [00:16:10] Kevin Bupp: Got it.  Has that investment thesis changed at all in the last decade for you with this idea of just build to hold? [00:16:17] Kevin Bupp: It has not. It has not, but you know, things come up that ultimately that, that will, you know, maybe change, you know, that direction of, of what had initially been thought of is like, we're going to hold this thing for 10 years to, well, maybe we should consider selling it. I mean, there's a litany factors there, you know, just using maybe examples of mobile home parks, you know, buying an existing product, something that was built 50 or 60 years ago, you can spend, you know, months doing due diligence. You can do market studies, you can hire, you know, outside consultants and feel that you have a good handle on the property, but there's always skeletons that come up in a particular property. It could be skeletons related to the market, skeletons related to the property itself, or just, you might find that you originally intend on expanding in that, that particular market. And so you bought this one, you intend to buy three or four more, but then you come to find that that's not necessarily where you want to, you know, place your energy and resources. And so why we, why are we just going to hold this one in this one market, we should sell this one out and focus our energy where we've decided that we're going to do an expansion. And so again, but our, our, our general thesis has not changed. I mean, we're long-term holders. And again, looking at most of these assets, whether it's built for rent, parking, or mobile home parks. I just know that they're not building anymore parking, not a lot of it, right? There are major restrictions on new parking coming to market. We know that that's the case with mobile home parks and then these built to rent, at least these projects that I'm speaking to, given that they're in urban infill locations, they're already in areas that are densely populated that have minimal land for development. And so I feel that they're irreplaceable in that. We'll be very happy in 10 years, looking back that we actually held onto them.  [00:17:53] Sam Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And that's something that, you know, we've heard that, and again, it goes back to your podcast, Real Estate Investing Cash Flow. I mean, that's kind of, but that's something I just keep hearing more, you know, we've seen a lot of, you know, equity multiples, you know, huge IRR returns, people getting really excited about these monster appreciation plays, but I've seen even a, a change of tune from investors, you know, as they're reaching out and going, I just want cash flow. I just want to know that whatever we buy produces an income for an undefined period of time.  [00:18:22] Kevin Bupp: Well, well, so, you know, I, I agree with that and when you're continually, you know, flipping in and out of properties, you know, that's great. It produces massive IRRs and, you know, you're hitting home runs every time seemingly, but it also creates challenges on the other side, right? It creates challenges for your investors. I mean, as far as, you know, recapture. Now they've got, they got to think about where they're going to put their money again, right? Like, there's difficulties with that, especially with a lot of retail investors, like less sophisticated investors that they've got money to place. They don't want to be thinking about, you know, where the hell am I going to put this? You know, this a hundred thousand, 200, $300,000 thinking about every couple of years. And that takes work. That takes effort to do due diligence on your different sponsors, you know, if you're not going to stick with the same ones. And so, and it also creates, you know, tax challenges as well. And so I, I agree with you, you know, and we've done, we've tried to do a really good job over the, you know, the last decade or so as we really, you know, try to form our avatar and find who are our particular avatars of investor, who that individual is, what are they seeking? [00:19:21] Kevin Bupp: You know, we're looking for that individual that's looking for, you know, long-term stable cash flow. They don't necessarily need to be hitting, you know, 20% IRRs to make them happy. They don't necessarily have to hit home runs. They'd rather hit singles and doubles and being very consistent, than that of just, you know, big wins every couple years, and then having the challenge of I've got to find a replacement, I've got to find a replacement. I've got to find somewhere else to put my money and, and making them actually have to work for their investment where their investments should be working for them.  [00:19:48] Sam Wilson: Yeah. And also I think coupled with that is, is when you hit those big wins, which they're fun. Don't get me wrong. I love a big win, but it also that big win comes with some risk attached to it. And I think I see with people, you know, recognizing that, especially in the turbulent times, we're in going, you know what? I kind of want to de-risk my portfolio. I want to make sure that it produces an income and then just kind of leave it, set it, forget it, you know, to your point there.  [00:20:10] Kevin Bupp: And I think what it depends what stage you're at with your wealth. I mean, are you looking for, you're willing to take more risk today, you know, and hit those triples and those home runs to, you know, to accumulate more wealth? You're not looking for, you know, 2% or 3% returns, like you definitely want to grow your wealth still. So you're looking for something that's consistent, you can get, you know, 6 to 8% returns in your money, or are you looking simply for the lowest risk investment possible and just simple wealth preservation, right? Like, there's those three buckets, really, depending on where you're at. And I think, I think most of our folks are in that middle bucket, right? Like, they're looking for something consistent, maybe not just, they're not in a wealth preservation stage. They want to preserve it, but they still want it to grow as well. And looking for something that is fairly low risk and a great market to do it.  [00:20:51] Sam Wilson: And parking, I think, achieves that for a lot of people. Can you give us a run-through on the last deal that you guys closed in the parking sector?  [00:20:58] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, the last deal that we, that we closed, it was a, a multiple step or multiple-prong deal, but it was a, it's a parking deck. It's actually in our backyard. It's in Clearwater Beach right here in Florida, Tampa Bay market. It's a 702-space, seven-story parking deck with 12,000 square feet of retail on the first floor, it's a block from the Gulf of Mexico. It's a phenomenal location, massive barriers to entry. They literally will not allow more parking to be built on that island. This was actually a public-private partnership with the city of Clearwater and the local private developer. They built it six years ago. And, you know, as, as these things sometimes go. The partnership, it had strains in it, you know, the city was, you know, provided the proforma of how this was going to perform for them. It didn't meet any of those metrics for a litany of reasons. The private developer did quite well. They had the best floors. They condo-wise each floor. And so they had the best floors. They did a good job negotiating this deal on the front end. But ultimately the private developer wanted to, you know, take that money and redeploy it in another asset. [00:21:55] Kevin Bupp: And then the city just wanted, they wanted to take that money and actually put in another project 'cause their return on it has been horrific over the past six years. They've kept their rates artificially low over the past five years, you know, half of what the market is there. And so we basically, you know, the, you know, the, the deal was essentially getting both parties to agree that we're going to, that we're going to sell. We had to close the private portion first, and then it took us some time to get the city's portion closed. We had an operator lined up already that we've prenegotiated a trip and net lease with an operator that manages, you know, 50 plus parking assets down along the beaches. And so very familiar with that marketplace. And so, you know, we, a lot of the value add was done in the year that it took us, you know, from the initial conversation to the actual closing of the deal, most of the value add happened in that span of time, you know, it being of negotiating with both the city and the private, and also getting that private operator, that local operator in place for that triple net lease. And so more excited about it. It's only six years old. I mean, it's a fairly new structure. I mean, which isn't that common in the parking space to find a garage that's only six years old, that's actually available for sale, any great location. [00:22:59] Kevin Bupp: And, so anyway, we're super excited about it's, it's a phenomenal deal, you know, kicking off a ton of cash flow, and there's still a good bit of upside there for that operator stepping in. And, they've instituted some dynamic pricing, you know, the prior operator that worked for the city and the private developer, literally just had $3 an hour, didn't have any flat-rate pricing for, you know, events, holiday, weekends at the beach, 4th of July, things of that nature. They just kept that $3 an hour all the time. So they had a lot of meat left on the bone for that new operator step in, and they're excited about it. They're happy. We're happy. It's just been a phenomenal deal all the way around. [00:23:31] Sam Wilson: I love that asset class. That's really cool. And I, and I, and I'm pumped to see you guys, you know, doing well with that, that that's a lot of fun. I think that's, you know, again, unique asset class and it's cool. You're finding those opportunities. I've certainly seen the same thing. You know, those public-private partnerships. You know, we, we even had an opportunity at one point they brought us a bunch of garages to build, but their underwritten performers were just so, so far off, it was like, guys, you can't. It's just never going to work. Like, no. [00:23:58] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, we actually got a hold of the proforma that the consultant provided the city, you know, prior to the development of the garage. And, like, there wasn't one year where it actually hit that. But again, most of that was because the city basically of the seven floors of the parking deck, the private developer owned the first, they owned the first two and the retail and the seventh, and then the city-owned 3, 4, 5, and 6. Well, in normal times, the first two floors got the majority of the traffic. And then proportionally speaking, they actually shared the expenses proportionate to their ownership. And so the private developer only owned 252 spaces. The city-owned, whatever the number is, it was, you know, 450 or 460. Anyway, they proportionally paid much more in expenses but had way less revenue. I mean, it was, again, kudos to the private developer from the negotiations on the front end, 'cause they did a phenomenal job, but unfortunately, the city got the short end of the stick and it just never ever met their projections. [00:24:49] Sam Wilson: Right. And I mean, the city doesn't know parking. That's not their business.  [00:24:53] Kevin Bupp: No. They should have bought, the city should have actually bought the other. That's what they should have done, but they're already so far in the water and they just, they had another big project happening. They just wanted to take their, their millions and, you know, redeploy it into the other project. They didn't want to have any, any discussions about buying the other, you know, the other part of the parking. So obviously we were the guys with the capes on and came in and saved the day.  [00:25:14] Sam Wilson: Good for you. I love it. Love that story. Kevin, thank you for coming on the show today and, and sharing with us everything you guys are getting involved in, where you see the mobile home park space right now, how you guys are crushing it in parking, and then, you know, the opportunity you guys see in the builder rent market there in Phoenix. I love it. You've shared with us a ton of information. Certainly appreciate it. If our listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?  [00:25:34] Kevin Bupp: Yeah, they can go to kevinbupp.com. You can contact me there if you want to learn about Sunrise Capital Investors, which is our investment arm. You can go to investwithsunrise.com and then, Sam, if you don't mind, I actually just released a book too. I'd love to give a free copy to your listeners. They can go to kevinbupp.com/freebook, and you can see it on the screen behind me. I don't know if we do this in video or not, but it's called The Cash Flow Investor. It's about building wealth in commercial real estate. And again, they can grab a free copy by going to kevinbupp.com/freebook.  [00:26:00] Sam Wilson: Awesome. We'll certainly include that there in the show notes as well. And yeah, this will be on YouTube as well for those watching on YouTube. So, Kevin, thank you again for coming on. I certainly appreciate it. [00:26:08] Kevin Bupp: Sam. Thanks for having me. It's been fun. 

Sev talks with Brent VanBruaene of the IRRS about a swift water rescue class that he took.

As an active investor, what are all the different things we need to know? I think we need to know: - A bit of economics: the fundamentals of micro and macro economics: how economic incentives and constraints shape human behavior, the history of capitalism and its enormous power to create wealth for business owners, etc. - A bit about how businesses work: how they compound capital and generate returns for their owners, the magic of retained earnings, etc. - A bit about accounting and financial statements: how to read and interpret them, how to use them to distinguish wonderful businesses from so-so ones, how to read 10-Ks and 10-Qs, etc. - A bit of financial modeling: the basic math behind predicting and evaluating financial time-series, cash flows, IRRs, inflation adjustments, etc. - A bit of probability and decision making under uncertainty: the logic behind diversification and portfolio construction, intelligent re-balancing, the pitfalls of averages and expectations, the math of survival (Lindys vs Turkeys), statistical significance, distinguishing luck from skill, the fundamentals of intelligent risk management, etc. - And finally, a bit about our own psychology: common biases we tend to harbor, slow thinking vs fast thinking, survivorship bias, how fear and greed and envy shape our behavior in markets, etc. In this episode, we'll go over this “curriculum” — the various topics in it and how investors can efficiently learn these topics and put them to practical use. DISCLAIMER: None of this is investment advice. Download the Callin app for iOS and Android to listen to this podcast live, call in, and more! Also available at callin.com

The Investor Relations Real Estate Podcast Episode 44 - This Is Why Mobile Home Parks Are A Great Investment Host: Jonny Cattani Guest: Jefferson Lilly Producer: April MunsonJonny Cattani is joined by Jefferson Lilly to discuss: Affordable housing Investing in mobile home parks Property management Investing in funds Jefferson is a mobile home park investment expert and educator. He is the founder of Park Avenue Partners, a private equity real estate fund that acquires and operates mobile home parks nationwide. His investment funds are returning 10% - 15% IRRs to Limited Partners. Both personally and through his partnerships, Jefferson has acquired 31 MHPs in 15 states since 2007 totaling over $71mm in value. He started the industry's first MHP podcast and the largest group on LinkedIn dedicated to investing in mobile home parks. Prior to beginning to manage investors' money in 2014, Jefferson spent seven years investing his own capital in mobile home parks and consulting to high-net-worth families with interests in the manufactured housing industry. Jefferson has been featured in The New York Times, Bloomberg Magazine, and on the Real Money television show. He holds a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from the Wharton School of Business. Linked material referenced during the show: Book: Snowball - Warren Buffett and The Business Of Life - Alice Schroeder https://www.amazon.com/The-Snowball-Alice-Schroeder-audiobook/dp/B001GSJSC6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OI64II70EB6Q&keywords=snowball&qid=1653479206&s=audible&sprefix=snowball%2Caudible%2C105&sr=1-1Connect with Jefferson!Website: https://www.parkavenuepartners.comWebsite: http://mobilehomeparkinvestors.comPodcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mobile-home-park-investors-with-jefferson-lilly-brad/id1069263193LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonlilly/Connect with Jonny!Cattani Capital Group: https://cattanicapitalgroup.com/Invest with us: invest@cattanicapitalgroup.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cattani-53159b179/Johnny's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonnycattani/IRR Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theirrpodcast/TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@jonnycattani?lang=enYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCljEz4pq_paQ9keABhJzt0AFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.cattani.1

In this episode, Travis shares his thoughts on two very different value-add multifamily deals he was a part of as an LP in the past. He uses these examples to explain why focusing on net operating income (NOI) versus simply evaluating an operator by previous IRRs can make a huge difference. Click here to know more about our sponsors: Equity Multiple | Cornell Capital Holdings | PassiveInvesting.com | FollowUp Boss

Howard reflects on this memo (https://www.oaktreecapital.com/docs/default-source/memos/lines-in-the-sand.pdf) originally published on April 18, 2017. Following up on his classic memo You Can't Eat IRR (https://www.oaktreecapital.com/docs/default-source/memos/2006-07-12-you-cant-eat-irr.pdf), he discusses why financial innovations that can artificially boost IRRs, like subscription lines, should be treated cautiously and why no single performance metric tells the whole story. The memo is read by LJ Ganser.

Are funds more beneficial than syndications for the investors? Are they better for the sponsors? How to approach investors when you have a deal? How to find a great partner in the industry? Brian Spear, Principal at Sunrise Capital shares his experience. You can read this entire interview here: https://bit.ly/3vjvOGa Why do you recommend people creating a fund instead of syndications to be begin with? I wouldn't say that, with absolute assurance, everyone should always create a fund, but I do believe that funds are better structure for both parties involved. Selfishly from the general partner side, it ‘s more flexibility of capital, it affords you the opportunity to be able to move at a moment's notice. If every time that we stumbled upon a given transaction that we wanted to acquire, we had to roll out a brand new syndication. Then we would miss some deals, some opportunities in a hot market such as this, when you have to compete against other people. The brokers want to know where your equity derives. If you don't have the ability to say, “I've eight figures sitting in the bank right now and I can close on this next week if we really need it to”, then you're going to be at a little bit of a disadvantage, especially in this crazy environment where there's so much capital chasing deals. The fund affords you to have that capital ready when those opportunities arise so that you can act and move faster, that expediency helps tremendously. Funds will afford you to provide outsized IRRs as well. Depending upon the scale of your respective fund, you may be able to garner some lines of credit, which would afford you to be selective about when you bring capital in and leveraging that provides your investors with a higher internal rate of return. In addition, you get diversification across the various different assets. I'm assuming that you recommend people doing a syndication first, because it's probably very hard to raise for a fund first? Yes, you want to use your own capital to go out and prove the business model. To have a simple, scalable, and repeatable one prior to rolling out a fund. It would be imprudent to just launch a fund from scratch, you need to go out and prove yourself first. There's nothing wrong with that. But I do think that ultimately, the fund structure provides more benefits for everybody involved. I would pose to you that's why the likes of Blackstone, Carlyle Group, Apollo, all the guys on Wall Street, don't run out and do individual deals specific syndications. They do fund structures without fail for all those reasons. How do you approach an investor when you have a deal? The question of how you approach investors when you have a deal begins well in advance of when you have a deal. You're never going to reach out to somebody, and hard sell them on wiring you $100,000 one day after you have a deal, come under contract, and all of a sudden need to scramble to get that capital. What you need to do is develop that relationship with the prospect or the potential investor many days, weeks, months or years in advance of that opportunity arising. If you intend to scale actively in this business, you're going to need to build a substantive Rolodex. And you're going to need to begin providing that Rolodex with valuable content that provides them with insight and knowledge that you are an authority in your industry and are worthy of their time, energy, effort, and ultimately capital, to partner with you on deals as you progress. Brian Spear www.parkinglotprofits.com www.sunrisecapitalinvestors.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

On today's podcast we welcome special guest, Allego CEO Mathieu Bonnet. Allego owns a pan-European electric vehicle charging network.  On the show, Mathieu discusses: -The European EV market and its 46% expected growth rate -The future of ultra-fast charging -How Allego expects to generate 30% IRRs from its owned sites -What it was like working with private equity firm Apollo on Allego's going-public transaction -And more

Whitney is a real estate maven who, after purchasing her first rental in 2002, and hitting a homerun, then nearly losing it all on her second deal, took control and figured out how to invest in real estate the right way. She realized that success must leave clues. So, she studied and replicated the very personal finance and wealth creation strategies the wealthy use to create financial freedom. In this episode, Whitney shares her approach to passive investing, the differences between this strategy and direct ownership, a typical deal structure, and what investors starting out in the space should know about this investment vehicle.   Whitney's Links: passiveinvestingwithwhitney.com Ashwealth.com --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: What's going on everybody? Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum. And today with me, I have a very special returning guest, Whitney Elkins-Hutton with Ash Wealth, and she's gonna be talking to us today about passive investing, and what we should be aware of before we get involved. So let's get into it.   Whitney, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast and hanging out with me again today. I really appreciate you taking the time.   Whitney: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me back. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.   Michael: Now Me too. Me too. So today, we're gonna be talking about passive investments, which is something that you've got a lot of experience in. And so I'm just curious to know, from your experience, what do you recommend people do? I mean, how do people get involved in passive investments? Because we hear about it, but maybe I don't really know how to do it. So what are some concrete steps people can take?   Whitney: Yeah, well, I would love let's back up a little bit and actually kind of define what a passive investment is. And, you know, really, what a passive investment is, is group investing, you know, it seems, you know, especially with any financial situation, or you know, getting into the financial education world, there's a lot of terms that tend to confound and confuse people. But really, at the end of the day, yes, you know, syndication, passive investing, this is all group investing, how can you pull people's monies together, their talent, their expertise, their networks in order to take down a larger asset? That's simply it.   And so when we talk about passive investing in let's just pick it, you know, an area like multifamily passive investing. It can be self storage, mobile, home, parks, Bitcoin, crypto, I mean, like crypto mining ATMs, but let you know, if we're sticking to real estate fast back to assets, typically, what you're gonna have is the structure of general partner and limited partners,   Michael: Okay.   Whitney: And so in this arrangement, the general partners are the active investors, and the limited partners are bringing the down payment to the asset. Okay, so the general partners, they've got all the knowledge, expertise, the market resources, they've put together the team of the brokers, the lenders, the agents, everything that's needed to acquire the deal, run the deal, and rehab the deal even. And then they're also able to bring to the table of credit and lending as well as other investors money. So the limited partner can participate in the rewards of the asset simply by contributing capital. So that was a lad that really it's pretty simple, right? It's like, you know, Hey, Michael, you want to go buy an apartment building together?   Michael: Yeah.   Whitney: Yeah. Great. Let's go do with 500 other people makes total sense.   Michael: Makes total sense. And so that's where the terms GP and LP come from? Is that general partner limited partner? Right?   Whitney: Yeah, the general partner is the active role in the investment. I mean, think about it, you don't want to 500 investors, you know, taking on day to day duties of the asset, or even voting on to date day to day operations of the asset. It was just, I mean, that's herding cats.   Michael: Yeah.   Whitney: So when an investor goes into a general partnership, or excuse me into a syndication, they're looking for the opportunity to relinquish some of that day to day operational control, in exchange for taking advantage of all this massive leverage, and getting their time back. I can tell you, for me, like, um, you know, we talked last time how I built up a portfolio of over 30 single family homes and was doing flipping on the side, right, that was a lot of time, I was making a lot of moving decisions. On all my I can tell you now, I have 38 passive investments. I spend maybe an hour a month reading through the reports and you know, you know, making sure that the distributions hit my bank account, I spend far more time on my single family assets.   Michael: Much more active.   Whitney: Yes. But, um, it's leveraged, what you're trying to do is create leverage in order to get that return.   Michael: Okay. Okay.   Whitney: But the steps are, we're flip flopping the steps, right? Because if somebody is, you know, the listener here is like, dang it, I would love to get into passive investing, but I don't know how I have experience in real estate. So I could be considered a sophisticated investor. Maybe they can be considered even an accredited investor, because they have the net worth or the the income to be accredited, but they just don't know the logical steps, we have to flip their investing model on their head. Because up until this point, they probably have been looking at the asset itself, there's they've been searching for single family homes that have make a really good return. And is that home in a good market? And who's the day to day operator, it's them. They're calling all the shots and making the decisions. Now they might have property management, okay. But they're still very much in control of asset.   When we go into the syndication model, we're flipping that on its head, the investors actually investing it in operating business. Okay, so they need to, as we were talking, before we got on, they need to learn how to bet on the jockey, not the horse. So if the horse is the deal, that's fine. And all we still want to get into assets that have good returns and numbers. But we want to make sure that we have an operator that knows what they're doing. Because at the end of the day, an operator that is very seasoned, has a good track record in good business sense, they're going to be able to take any deal and navigate it through the rough waters of our economic environment right now.   Michael: Okay. All right, that makes total sense. So how do you evaluate an operator? Is it similar to how you would vet a property manager? You getting on the phone calling these these people and saying, hey, you know, what's your favorite kind of food? Are we gonna jive? You know, we are we a good fit? What does that look like?   Whitney: Yeah, are you a leo a virgo? I mean, you could answer that question, but you might get a few chuckles out of it. But   Michael: I'm sure.   Whitney: Yeah, really, whenever you're learning to bet operators, you want to think of it as a sales funnel, anybody that's been in sales, right? You're trying to cast the widest net possible. But we want to make sure that that that operator that you're talking to is actually already somewhat aligned with your goals. So there's actually a couple steps that we need to take before then. One, is you sitting down and understanding what your investing goals are first, do you believe that real estate is actually a viable asset to invest in? If you can't say yes to that question?   Michael: Kind of a non starter?   Whitney: Yeah, well, I mean, not necessarily, right. Like you can there's, like I said, there's other assets, like, you know, crypto mining, and solar and all that they're also passive investments, but you know, for our conversation, we're talking real estate, you know, do you believe in the fundamentals of real estate? You can check that box move on?   What do you need? Do you need cash flow, do need give you the appreciative gains of the asset. Now, it doesn't have to be an either or there are investments that offer both, but you need to get super clear with what you actually need, not what you want. And I run into the struggle, you know, investors that have the struggle all the time, is there like, oh, I don't need the cashflow. Right now, that's fine. I just want the gains. Well, the, the gains are kind of like the icing on the cake, the cash flow tells me that the investment has is profitable right now, even if you don't need the cash flow, put it in your bank account, save up for your next investment. Okay.   Also, when you decide that flip that switch and start living off that cashflow, it's there, okay, you're not having to wait for these investments to cycle out. So I really like encouraging investors to look at balanced cashflow and gains type strategies, then we also want to understand what your risk tolerance is, okay, there's, you know, just like with single family homes or small multi-family, you can get into a development ground up deal or you can invest in a class a suburban, you know, structure that are apartment building or a complex that is, you know, you know, affordable housing but is very, you know, recently built no deferred maintenance, and you're just kind of clipping a distribution for five or seven years. So there's a continuum there, we need to understand which side of the continuum, once you know those, those pieces, now is the time to go find the operator.   Michael: Okay. And am I just hopping on Google and typing in syndication operator? Is it that simple?   Whitney: You can? Yeah, I mean, a lot of operators right now are online and so they have an incredible web presence. And that is one way to start sourcing operators. I also like and encourage investors to talk to each other get into a group where good because you know, like minded investors actually gather in places. There's websites like CrowdfundingDD, Left Field Investors in their sharing their investing knowledge and who they know love and trust. That's a great way to to kind of create a list you You can attend conferences as well, you know, to that I'm going to be at with passive investing calm this year, I'm going to be the Intelligent Investor here in a couple of weeks and out in LA. And then also, in my own backyard, we'll be at the best ever conference as well.   Michael: Right on.   Whitney: That's another place where investors and operators gather. Okay, yes, Google searches are fantastic. And but you know, I encourage people, you know, to get a little, you know, put themselves out there, if this is really a strategy they want to go after   Michael: Totally.   Whitney: Well, yeah, then it's a matter of, you know, betting on these operators. Now, you're going to search them out on their website, and they're going to have some sort of like, investor club that you can apply to, in general, generally, the next step is that you can hop on the phone with them for like, 1520 30 minutes to get some high level questions answered about their company, and also what other open deals that they might have.   So take care to read through the information that they're putting out there. Because that can really answer a lot of questions to see if you're, you guys are really aligned with each other. And then you can spend that precious time on the phone get in some of the deeper questions that you couldn't find answers to.   Michael: Okay.   Whitney: And when you're talking on the phone, I mean, you're wanting to evaluate them, like, do you? Are they genuine? Do? Are they transparent? Do like them? How? What is their background and experience? How many deals have they done? Have they taken on full cycle? Are they doing this full time? Are they part time operators, some of these things throw off a red flag for me, you know, I want somebody to take care of my money as if it's my money, not theirs. And so I want them working on the asset full time, not just part time.    And, you know, are there more than one operator? Okay, are they a one one horse show? Or I, you know, there's power in numbers, you know, there's just no way one operator can certainly run the entire deal. So I like to look for two three partners or more, that are operating as assets.   Michael: Okay, I was just gonna ask, Is it reasonable to actually get the actual operators on the phone? Or is it going to be someone on their sales team that's gonna tell you everything you want to hear? And then, you know, so and so is so busy running these multibillion dollar assets? They can't, they can't help on a 15 minute call with me.   Whitney: So it depends on the size of the investment group. So typically, like if you know, a larger investor group, think about it, you know, some of these deals, say it's a 60 or $80 million deal, there's going to be three to 400 investors individually going into that deal. So it's really in its right, and every time you deal opens, investors have specific questions. So it's pretty, you know, just to get everybody, like on the same page, we're going to try to use a lot of manpower initially to get investors questions, you know, answered.   Now, it's a it's a yes and, okay, so initially, if the group's small, you're probably going to be talking to the direct operator, but that might give you an indication of the size of the company. As they grow, they're going to add on an investor relations team, because they have more deals running, they have more questions coming in, they have they want to have an element of scale to the business. Okay.   Personally, I want my operator working on the deal, not necessarily talking to hundreds of investors every day, I want them focused on how they can make me money. Okay, so I don't see that as a detriment. Now,   Michael: You see that as a pro?   Whitney: Yeah, very much as a pro very much as a pro. Okay, now, okay. If I had, say, I'm going to throw down, you know, a $500,000, check, or a million dollar check. Yeah, I would love to talk to the operator to talk to the operator. So there's a balance here. And so you can ask to talk to the operator, there might depending on the group, there might be some, you know, guidelines on a, you know, what stage in, you know, the process of getting into a deal that it's, you know, beneficial for everybody to get on the phone. But, yeah, I mean, if you're going to be investing, you know, you know, any substantial amount of money, absolutely, you should be able to get on the line with the operator, it just might not be until you actually identify the deal that you want to go into. So everybody's gonna have different rules on that.   Michael: Okay. All right. Got it. Well, that might undo years of therapy for my middle child syndrome, always being forgotten about never getting anyone to talk to me, but I'll work through it. I'll work through it. I've got a great therapist. All right. Well, that's really good to know. That's good to know. And set expectations.   Whitney: Yeah, I mean, isn't seven the big guys that you know, are doing billions and billions of dollars a year of investments, you're not you're probably not going to get the the CEO of that company on the phone and let you know, unless you're writing a pretty large Check. I mean, if you're just writing, you know, and I shouldn't say just right, it's scary to write that first $50,000 check to get into a deal. Or even 20 or 25, like, you know, if it's with a smaller organization, but really, it's it's a matter of size and scale and the organization where everybody is in their, either their investing journey or in the scaling journey of the company.   Michael: Okay. All right. And yeah, I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit. We're recording this early Jan of 2022. I'm curious Whitney to know from what you've seen thus far, specifically talking about multifamily. Let's talk numbers. Let's talk minimum requirements. Let's talk you're what projection cash on cash returns are. And let's talk equity multiples. And what's again, being projected in the multifamily space early Jan 2022.   Whiteny: Well, you know, I, the group that I'm with passive investing.com, we specialize in the class a suburban asset. So really, those numbers are going to vary by the business plan and the asset totally. So for us, we're really looking for that stabilized asset. We're not talking about class a luxury or Class A urban infill, we're not talking about we're talking about affordable class A, rents are still about $1,500 a month, we're not talking about three $4,000 a month friends, gated communities, nothing like that. So this is very urban, you know, suburban, you know, housing situations now, and the returns on this in this is going to vary group to group. Right now, what I'm seeing across majority of operators is about a 7% preferred return. Now, guys, I hate to say that preferred return doesn't actually mean return, it just says the first 7% of the profits go to the limited partner investor.   So the the first year of the hold and might be 5%. And then it works its way up to 8%. Right, but the first 7% of the profits will go to the limited partner investor, and IRR on that, you know, probably going to be somewhere between 12 to 16%. Again, deal dependent depends on the market, you're going in the size of the asset, and equity multiples, probably hovering somewhere between 1.5 to 1.75. On that type of asset. However, in some markets, we can actually because rents are now taking off, we can expect on I shouldn't say expect. That's a…   Michael: Dangerous word! We can hopefully expect.   Whitney: Yeah, hopefully expect but it I don't think it's unrealistic to see, you know, equity. So there's what's on the pro forma. And then though, there's what's being delivered, you know, you I know operators that are conservatively underwriting to x multiples, on class a suburban assets, but again, that's more of a product of them, or an outcome of the market that you're in. Because you can't expect that in every single market, you know, we're not seeing that, you know, five to 10% rent growth or higher in every market.   Michael: Right, right. Okay. And for anyone that's brand new to passive investing, they might, I mean, I think be totally unfamiliar with the term equity multiple, or maybe even IRR. So if we take just one step back, can you give us a high level definition of what that is? And maybe what that means in dollars and cents?   Whitney: Yeah, definitely. Okay. So, um, let's start with equity multiple, because this is the one that I am getting, especially if you're new to passive investing, it's pretty easy to get your head around. So if I invest $100,000, in a deal, and the equity multiple is 2x, that means at the end of the whole period, I'm projected to get take my $100,000 and double it to $200,000 between the distributions have the cash flow on a monthly or quarterly basis, and the capital gain event at the end of the sale.   So I might get distributed $40,000 over the course of five years in a cash flow distribution, and then I might get a lump sum check at the capital gain, or at the sale of the asset for $60,000. Okay, so I've taken my 100k it's grown now to 200k. I can take that and now go invest that into the next deal. That is the power of the scale of this, and I didn't have to do anything. Do the initial due diligence, and just, you know, maybe answer a survey at the sale of the asset of whether I want to, you know, consume that, you know, take it all back into my possession or roll it into a 1031 exchange.   Michael: Ah, so you have the ability to 1031 with passive investments as well?   Whitney: You do within the same LLC structure. So it's not like you get to say okay, great. Now My asset with Operator A is selling I'm going to 1031 into operator B or even into deal B with Operator A you can, that's not, you're not able to do that, what you are able to do is the collective entity that invested in that initial asset stays together and purchase this another asset, okay, they essentially or they can or they move into what they call a tenant in common relationship into another asset. So they can either take down fully another asset themselves, or they're going to stay collectively and go partner on another deal.   But that's kind of hard. I mean, I look for operators that have every indication that they're they want to do that, because it's such a powerful multi generational wealth building strategy. But it's certainly not a guarantee. I mean, it's difficult to do that the timing, the regulation behind it. It's a little element of herding cats, with the investors that they had to get them to, like, make a decision. But yeah, that's also where, you know, we're talking about that investor intro call the operators trying to get a sense of the investor if they are a good fit for the deal as well. And the investing goals are aligned.   Michael: Okay. So it's a little bit like everyone's evaluating everyone better be on your best behavior.   Whitney: To a certain extent, yeah.   Michael: And then can you talk a little bit about IRR. And so how investors should be thinking about that when they see a number thrown at them?   Whitney: Yeah, it's a calculus term. So it's, I, it's funny, I do weekly webinars to help kind of demystify these terms and the whole process and, you know, move people through the seven steps in. One of the things that people ask me about quite often are the IRR, like, what does that really mean? And really, what the IRR allows us to do is to, what is the return when we take into account when we get our capital back? So the example I like using is Michael, how likely are you into invest in a deal? If I said the return is 20%?   Michael: I would be interested, cautiously optimistic.   Whitney: Oh, what's the natural? Next question?   Michael: It's 20% over how long a time period?   Whitney: Aha, how long of a time period? When do I get my capital back? If I say, Well, hold on, I gave you the answer to the next question. Okay. I say, Oh, it's 20% over 10 years.   Michel: Okay. And yeah, when do I get my investment back?   Whitney: When do I get my investment back, that's what the IRR allows us to, you know, help calculate. So because I'm maybe I say you get 20% or the first 10 years, but you don't exit for, or excuse me the first 10 years and you don't exit until you're 20. You're kind of like, whoa, hold on, like what happened here. And the IRR just takes into account, it's usually a little bit lower like two or three, especially when we're talking five to seven year holds, it's going to be a couple of percentage points lower than the ARR the average annual return, but it actually takes into account when I get my money back.   So the IRR for shorter deals tends to be higher, because you're getting your money back quicker the IRR drops, the longer that you hold the asset because it's taking longer for you to get your initial capital back. It is somewhat of a good number to to use to compare deal the deal. So if you're looking at two deals that have both a five year hold, which what is your i potential IRR. Now, there there are people out there that are going to just say, Hey, why are we even looking at IRR because the performance is an educated best guess on to the business plan of asset.   So, you know, it's it's one data point to look at, you need to look at all the other data points and in. One thing to look at within the Investment Summary is to see if the operator puts in what we call a sensitivity analysis. So in the sensitivity analysis, they're not going to just give you one IRR, they're going to give you a range of IRRs that could possibly happen within that whole period. And based on the net operating income that's going to be generated on the asset and how cap rates move. Okay, so they're projecting they're going to make let's just throw out a number like $10 million dollar profit on the asset and that the sensitivity analysis would calculate and let's say the going in cap rate was 4%.   Okay, the sensitivity analysis should probably run what happens if cap rates at the exit is three and a half percent, and all the way floating up to save 4.5 or 5%. Now when Cap rates go down, we're all like doing high fives with each other because me all means we made more money. Okay, so 10 million divided by 3%. Okay, that's, that's essentially I don't have the calculator in front of me, but that's how much you would make on the gain, right? versus the other way, if cap rates float up to say four and a half or 5%, you're dividing by a larger number, so you're not going to make as much. But you're still making money because you're producing value on that asset.   Michael: Okay. All right. And another question for you is, I know that there is multiple ways that you can earn money on a or make money in a passive investment. And there's some terms that I think are out there that anyone who's probably reading an OM or offering memorandum may have come across. So can you talk to us about hurdles and waterfalls, and what a preferred return is versus any other kind of return? That's available in some of these investments?   Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So, preferred return, we we've touched on that a little bit, the preferred return is not a guarantee. Think about it. If I'm the general partner, and Michael, you're the limited partner. Okay. I'm just saying, Michael, I'm going to give you that I'm, I still believe so much in this deal, I'm going to give you a preferred return of 7%, meaning I'm going to give you the first 7% in the cut in profits on that deal, whether they come from cash flow or equity, but you and I are partners, okay, so that's 7%. preferred return is not an expense on the deal. And I think this is where, you know, new limited partners get a little confused. They were like, where's my distribution? where's the where's the line and saying that I get 7%? Okay. You're not debt on the right. Okay, we're splitting equity. Okay, very different. Okay.   Now, we were talking about some higher level, I don't want to call it like, you know, limited partner investing like to one because these are concepts you really need should understand before you go into your first investment. They will you need to say that. Sometimes they're hard for people to get their head around. But when we talk about the waterfall, we're just saying, who gets paid what and when? That's simply what we're doing. Okay. The first and now think about it in terms of like your own house. Okay, what is the first bill that you're going to pay every month on your house? If you have a specially if you bought it with a loan? What are you going to pay?   Michael: Mortgage?   Whitney: The debt, you're going to pay the debt on the property, right? Because otherwise the lender is going to foreclose on you. Right. Okay. So the lender is sits first and what we call the capital stack, they get paid first, their number one their top dog in the waterfall, then we've got, you know, any sort of secondary debt on the property, if there's a second loan or a mezzanine loan, okay, then right behind that if there's a preferred equity investor, you know, somebody that wrote a super large check, like $1,000,000.05 million dollars $10 million, they have the power to probably negotiate some better terms within the deal. So we've got our debt. Now we've got our preferred equity investor, right? And not only can they get better terms, but they're probably negotiating a higher position in the capital stack.   Behind that, now we're talking about, okay, we've got our limited partner class, and then we've got our general partner class. Now, I'm not going to give them A's and B's because it'll confuse people because, you know, ppms, the legal documentation has all different letters to them, let's just call it an LP GP, the LP, the next part of the waterfall, they're going to get their preferred return. Remember me as the GP I said, I'm so confident my deal that you're going to get the first 7% Right, so that's the preferred return. Okay. Now, the waterfall might split out between cash flow and game like what happens there, but one of the structures that we love using is 7% preferred return and then 70-30 split on all of their profits, okay. 70% goes to the limited partner 30% comes to the general partner.   Okay. Now, you threw in a term there IRR hurdle. Okay, now we're gonna slap the criteria is this is we're going to split 7030 until you reach a 15% IRR as the limited partner, okay. And then we're going to change and we're going to split things 50-50   Michael: Okay. All right.   Whitney: So that's what the hurdle is. It's a it's an incentive for me as a general partner to perform better in order to get a larger split of the deal.   Michael: Okay, that makes that makes total sense. I mean, I think that that's intuitively a smart thing to have inside of these deals. But let me ask a question for all the little people out there, the little guys, the little fish? What if someone could easily say, Well, you know, when you're very experienced, and you know, the numbers inside and out, and I don't really know the number, so you could likely sandbag these numbers and show a lesser return, knowing full well that you're gonna hit cross that waterfall far above and away. Right. So how do we evaluate the reality of the numbers that we're seeing? Or the reasonableness of the numbers we're seeing?   Whitney: That is so interesting. And I would say I understand the sentiment and I don't I usually I hear it the other way people are like, prove to me you're going to actually make this not so much like, how are you sandbagging? I mean, here's a perfect example. You know, anybody that was trying to sell a multifamily asset and April or May last year of 20-20, we didn't know what cap rates were, we didn't know the true value of the asset. We didn't know net operating incomes on some of these assets we're going to take because tenants weren't paying. So my question I kind of throw it back to you. Like, I don't have a crystal ball do you?   Michael: I don't know.   Whitney: I'm going to mitigate my downside, right? Because think about it as the general partner, I'm getting the first 7% to you, or a preferred return. And then I'm like, give me the lion's share of the of the split. And I get, you know, the bottom barrel? Yeah. And either fees along the way and stuff like that. But I think a lot of, um, you know, they can, they're not as lucrative, I think, as limited partners would like to think they are for the general partnership. I mean, think about it. There's a lot of expenses that go into acquiring a deal. And I just did a webinar yesterday with my acquisitions team. And there, they were like we underwrote 500 deals last year, closed on, like, 11.   Michael: Wow.   Whitney: I mean, how much manpower Are you putting behind that?   Michael: That's huge.   Whitney: Um, there's a lot of there's a lot that goes into this. Um, but, um, I want to mitigate my risk, too, right? I want to I don't, as a general partner, I don't want to, you know, go into a deal where I don't think I'm going to make any money. And think about it this way. We haven't stopped splitting. It's not like after at 15% IRR, I'm capping, you know, the limited partner investor and that waterfall example. No, we both continue to make money.   Michael: Love it.   Whitney: we're just splitting it 5050. Right.   Michael: Makes total sense. Makes total sense. We need the last question I have for you, before we get out of here is we've talked how to evaluate the jockey, the operators, we've talked how to think about the numbers. Where do people draw the line? Or how should people think about where to draw a line with getting into the weeds on the numbers and evaluating and kind of looking to get an understanding of what all the different numbers mean, versus saying, Hey, I've evaluated the operator, I'm good, let's just let's do the thing.   Whitney: Awesome. Well, there's a few other steps in here, we didn't get to cover and I just want to invite everybody, if I may, to a website because we won't be able to get into all the steps. But I actually have a download there at passiveinvestingwithwhitney.com. And you can go there and sign up and get this free download. It goes through all seven steps to of what you tangibly need to do tactically need to do to get into your first or next investment.   Michael: Awesome.   Whitney: I'll also have a ebook that will walk you through in greater detail. And it expands on this cheat sheet that I have available for everybody to operators, one piece you can control, you can control your goals, you can control the operator that you invest with, you can control the strategy you go into, you can also control as a limited partner, the market you invest in, and the deal that you can go into you have an you know, you should evaluate the market. And the numbers. I'll have, I'll give you some questions in that ebook that you can, you know, run through and you know, kind of double check things for yourself.   And they'll also be in a checklist of how to underwrite a deal, actually, just, I'll give you the link to the webinar that I did last week, that will walk people through, you know, step 1-2-3-4-5 of how to underwrite a market or excuse me, underwrite a deal from the limited partner perspective. Okay, it's different than you know if you've ever purchased a single family house before, and so, like the numbers like we didn't, we didn't have to talk about IRR before probably you were just looking at cash on cash or, you know, equity growth.   Then what Do you need to do to that all the legal documentation? That would be like one of the, you know, you know, step four or five and six, so,   Michael: Okay. All right. Well, yeah, we will definitely link to the show notes. link to that in the show notes. Thanks so much for sharing. Yeah. And for people that didn't catch the last episode, how can people learn more about you reach out to you get in touch with you?   Whitney: Yeah, if you're interested in passive investing, reach out to me at passiveinvestingwithwhitney.com. And if you're interested in building your own personal single family rental portfolio, you can also you know, reach out to me and Ashwealth.com.   Michael: Awesome. Whitney, this was yet again another fantastic episode. Thank you again for hanging out with me. And I'm sure we'll be chatting again soon because you're a wealth of knowledge.   Whitney: Awesome. Thank you so much. And I'm so thankful to share all this powerful investment strategy with your listeners.   Michael: Awesome. Love it talk to you soon.   Already everyone that was our episode a big big big thank you to Whitney. She is so much fun to have on just a wealth of knowledge. I got a ton of my personal questions answered, because some of these episodes are very self serving. So as always, if you'd like the episode, feel free to leave us a rating or review wherever it is in your podcasts. We look forward to seeing you next one. Happy investing  

In this episode, David is joined by Warren Ebert the founder and CEO of Sentinel Property Group. A group that has secured over $2bn of property transactions, whilst delivering IRRs across these assets of close to 20% p.a. Warren's in-depth knowledge of all property sectors, supported by the specialist skills and analysis of the wider Sentinel team, is central to the group's proven buying and value-adding strategy. He established Sentinel Property Group after more than 20 years' high-level experience in the property industry, during which time he was responsible for a wide range of landmark commercial property developments and transactions. He was formerly a director of commercial development at Citimark Properties Pty Ltd, a consultant to Property Funds Australia Limited, a director of retail projects at PRD Realty, and director of commercial developments at CB Richard Ellis.

Steve Johnson, CFA and Owen Rask discuss the definition of valuation, modelling, forecasting, estimating growth rates, terminal values and so much more. Warning: this episode goes in depth on value investing. While we try to make things simple, if you're confused about the ideas presented here you can take Owen's free valuation courses on Rask Education to learn more. Topics discussed: What is value investing? What are the key valuation methodologies? Multiples Balance sheet reconstructions IRR DDM DCF - FCFF v FCFE Inside a Discounted cash flow (DCF) analysis Forecasting Terminal growth Discount rates How do you use valuation? Forager Funds website: https://bit.ly/forage-value Free valuation course: https://education.rask.com.au/courses/valuation-course/ Value Investor Program: https://education.rask.com.au/courses/workshop/ Watch the video version on the Rask Australia YouTube page. Take one of our intelligent & FREE investing courses (think ETFs, shares & valuation) on Rask Education and join our insightful FB community. Score $100 off Owen's high conviction ASX & US share research service, Rask Invest! If you want to thank us for putting this show together, please give The Australian Investors Podcast a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts - it's a 5-second task that really helps support the show (and puts a big smile on Owen's face). Full individual disclosures for each guest are available via the show notes page. Owen and The Rask Group Pty Ltd do NOT receive anything for mentioning Super funds, products, shares, bank accounts, etc. DISCLAIMER: This podcast contains general financial information only. That means the information does not take into account your objectives, financial situation, or needs. Because of that, you should consider if the information is appropriate to you and your needs, before acting on it. If you're confused about what that means or what your needs are, you should always consult a licensed and trusted financial planner. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee the accuracy of the information in this podcast, including any financial, taxation, and/or legal information. Remember, past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance. The Rask Group is NOT a qualified tax accountant, financial (tax) adviser, or financial adviser. Access The Rask Group's Financial Services Guide (FSG): https://www.rask.com.au/fsg Date recorded: 13th December 2021

Steve and Owen discuss the definition of valuation, modelling, forecasting, estimating growth rates, terminal values and so much more.Warning: this episode goes in depth on value investing. While we try to make things simple, if you're confused about the ideas presented here you can take Owen's free valuation courses on Rask Education to learn more.Topics discussed:What is value investing?What are the key valuation methodologies?MultiplesBalance sheet reconstructionsIRRDDMDCF - FCFF v FCFEInside a Discounted cash flow (DCF) analysisForecastingTerminal growthDiscount ratesHow do you use valuation?Forager Funds website: https://bit.ly/forage-valueFree valuation course: https://education.rask.com.au/courses/valuation-course/Value Investor Program: https://education.rask.com.au/courses/workshop/Watch the video version on the Rask Australia YouTube page.Take one of our intelligent & FREE investing courses (think ETFs, shares & valuation) on Rask Education and join our insightful FB community.Score $100 off Owen's high conviction ASX & US share research service, Rask Invest!If you want to thank us for putting this show together, please give The Australian Investors Podcast a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts - it's a 5-second task that really helps support the show (and puts a big smile on Owen's face).Full individual disclosures for each guest are available via the show notes page. Owen and The Rask Group Pty Ltd do NOT receive anything for mentioning Super funds, products, shares, bank accounts, etc.DISCLAIMER: This podcast contains general financial information only. That means the information does not take into account your objectives, financial situation, or needs. Because of that, you should consider if the information is appropriate to you and your needs, before acting on it. If you're confused about what that means or what your needs are, you should always consult a licensed and trusted financial planner. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee the accuracy of the information in this podcast, including any financial, taxation, and/or legal information. Remember, past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance. The Rask Group is NOT a qualified tax accountant, financial (tax) adviser, or financial adviser.Access The Rask Group's Financial Services Guide (FSG): https://www.rask.com.au/fsgDate recorded: 13th December 2021

Station: IRRS Italy Place of reception: Europe Language: English Frequency: 9510 kHz shortwave Date: December 5, 2021 Time: 11.58 UTC Transmitter location: Romania Transmitter power 100 kW Receiver: SONY ICF SW1 portable Location of receiver: indoor Antenna: outdoor 15 meter wire Recording device: portable wav file recorder

Special IRRS Pandemic QSL card Live, off-air, one-hour recording of the audio of Stephen K. Bannon's "War Room: Pandemic" podcast episode no. 46. The program was broadcast by IRRS Shortwave, the Italian Radio Relay Service of the NEXUS International Broadcasting Association in Milano, Italy, on 16 March 2020 from 20:00 to 21:00 UTC on a shortwave frequency of 9660 kHz from a transmitter believed to be in Kostinbrod, Bulgaria, and beamed to Africa. IRRS does not identify the locations of the transmitters it uses. The transmitter was switched on several minutes before 20:00 UTC but the usual IRRS sign-on music was not broadcast and the first few seconds of the program audio were skipped. This episode of "War Room: Pandemic," entitled "Black Monday Deuce (Pt. 1)" concerned the effect of the pandemic on the economy on the day the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped nearly 3,000 points or about 13% of its value. The program lasts about 49 minutes with the rest of the hour being music fill. During the podcast, Bannon mentions the stations carrying the show including IRRS. There is an IRRS identification at the end of the recording before the transmitter signs off. IRRS broadcast "War Room: Pandemic" several times per day for a number of weeks in March and April 2020.The broadcast was received by the Web-interface wideband software-defined radio at the University of Twente in Enschede, The Netherlands, with a "Mini-Whip" antenna in AM synchronous mode with 5.08 kHz total bandwidth RF filtering. Reception was generally good although there is some noise possibly due to local interference.

From converting distressed hotels into Assisted Living facilities to Value-Add apartments, there are many ways to generate great investor returns. It just requires rigor and creativity to see what others don't. Today's guest, Prashant Kumar, CEO of Myrealtygains, quickly learned that the single family game was an uphill battle and that bigger projects was the only way to go. He's since done several multifamily and Assisted Living deals and targets 20% IRRs for his investors.

CrowdStreet CEO and co-founder Tore Steen discusses various aspects of crowdfunding with Kim Lisa Taylor, including:How sponsors get their deals posted on CrowdStreet's platform, and the due diligence processWhat type of experience CrowdStreet looks for in a sponsor How long it typically takes to get documents posted and funds raised What portion of the raise CrowdStreet typically wants to doWhat deal parameters CrowdStreet looks for in specified offerings (minimum investment amounts, annualized returns, overall IRRs, duration of investment)Contact: emailSyndication Attorneys WebsiteInvestor Marketing Materials

This week we chat with David Polanksy, co-founder and managing partner at Immersion Investments. David is a terrific investor, independent thinker, and an all-around great guy. He's also CRIMINALLY under-followed on Twitter with less than 500 followers. Let's change that, folks. David and I spend two hours discussing myriad topics, including: David's Investing Guiding Principles The Five Types of Investments David Makes eDreams Odigeo (EDR) BasicFit (BFIT) I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I know you will too. David drops plenty of knowledge bombs during the podcast and I know you'll be smarter for it. This episode is brought to you by TIKR. Join the free beta today at TIKR.com/hive. They're constantly releasing new updates that make the platform better including a new Business Owner Mode that hides share count, market cap, and enterprise value. Also, they've introduced their new Global Stock Screener. Check it out now! I couldn't be more excited to partner with TIKR This episode is also brought to you by Quartr. Quartr is revolutionizing the way investors interact with IR departments, listen to conference calls, and engage in investment research. The best way to think of Quartr is like Spotify for investor conference calls. Quartr is 100% free and includes markets from twelve countries (with plans to expand in the future!). Investors can easily request new companies, and Quartr is quick to add them. You can learn more about Quartr by visiting their site, Quartr.se If you're interested in changing the way you research companies, download the app today and give it a try on Apple and Android. Finally, we're proud to announce our newest sponsor, Tegus! Tegus has the world's largest collection of instantly available interviews on all the public and private companies you care about. Tegus actually makes primary research fun and effortless, too. Instead of weeks and months, you can learn a new industry or company in hours, and all from those that know it best. Since joining, I spend nearly all my time reading Tegus calls on existing holdings and new ideas. And I know you will too. So if you're interested, head on over to tegus.co/valuehive for a free trial to see for yourself.

Join Vince as he chats with Gary Lipsky about mastering class asset management. Gary is a real estate entrepreneur who focuses on multifamily syndication. So far, he manages about 41-billion dollars worth of assets with more deals in the pipeline. Gary is also the president of Break of Day Capital, which aims to positively impact its investors' lives and communities through a high level of transparency and fiduciary responsibility. He also hosts The Real Estate Asset Management Podcast, where they bring in other real estate experts to educate both aspiring and veteran asset managers. Today, Gary will also talk about his book, Best In Class, which he co-authored with Kyle Mitchell. “Best in Class” lays out the foundations for creating better systems so that you can take control of your property and build wealth for you and your investors. There's plenty to take away from today's episode, so make sure to stay tuned and enjoy! About Gary Lipsky: Gary has been a real estate investor since 2002 and has invested in over 1900 units with $65MM AUM. Gary is also the Co-Founder of the Asset Management Summit, Real Estate Asset Management Podcast, and Co-Author of the book Best in Class. His expertise in asset management is his secret sauce, and he started developing those skills at a young age. Outline of the episode:  •        [01:42] Who Gary Lipsky is and how he got to where he is today •        [03:12] The “why” behind Gary's new venture into passive income •        [05:04] What drew him to asset management and eventually teaching it to others •        [07:40] What “Best In Class” is about and some of Gary's favourite topics in it •        [10:14] How making your property managers a part of your team sets them up for success •        [12:54] The importance of holding people accountable and effective ways to do so •        [14:35] The value of being able to pivot from a business plan that no longer works •        [21:32] How to get the most of your properties' utility savings by applying for grants •      [19:24] Why being flexible is essential in becoming a good asset manager •        [26:58] His experience managing assets and running properties amid the pandemic •        [29:19] Why passive investors nowadays should chase good operators and not IRRs •        [33:58] How you can get in touch with Gary Lipsky to learn more about him and his work  https://www.millionairesmindsetblueprint.com/ Resources: •      Website •      LinkedIn •      Facebook •      Instagram •      Best in Class  HYPERLINK "https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B096YS1HYX"by Kyle Mitchell and Gary Lipsky   Connect with The Cashflow Project! •      Website •      LinkedIn •      Youtube •      Facebook •      Instagram

#Tetragon Financial Group, #CLO, #leveraged loans

Spencer Gray went from entrepreneur to co-sponsor / LP to President of Gray Capital, an investment firm focused on large multifamily assets. Located in Indianapolis, he looks to take advantage of the relative lack of institutional capital flowing into the Midwest. Spencer shares with Lance his approach to sourcing deals, and why he prefers to see the value in a mismanaged property versus a distressed asset. They discuss the current state of the market, the fickle nature of IRRs, the implications of today’s political environment, and trying to deal with impatient investors to whom 10 years is an eternity.

Adam Gower of the Gower Crowd joins Lance for a spirited conversation that keeps returning to communication as THE fundamental concern of investors. Adam is a former digital marketer who views real estate investing through the lens of the marketing funnel. He and Lance talk about the basic fears of both investor and sponsor, the scourge of the Clubhouse mentality, deal junkies, rose-colored IRRS, and much more.

Travis Watts of Ashcroft Capital is a passive and active investor with a focus on Value-add Class B Apartments. Travis preaches “investing in what you know;” and digging into the track record of sponsors as much as the investment numbers. He and Lance talk about spotting the risks in fluffed up IRRs and over-complex sales pitches, and how he evaluates each investment as a business.

Travis Watts of Ashcroft Capital is a passive and active investor with a focus on Value-add Class B Apartments. Travis preaches “investing in what you know;” and digging into the track record of sponsors as much as the investment numbers. He and Lance talk about spotting the risks in fluffed up IRRs and over-complex sales pitches, and how he evaluates each investment as a business.

Mobile Home Park Investing Jefferson Lilly – The Sharkpreneur podcast with Seth Greene Episode 495 Jefferson Lilly Jefferson is a mobile home park investment expert and educator. He is the founder of Park Avenue Partners, a private equity real estate fund that acquires and operates mobile home parks nationwide. His investment funds are returning 10% - 15% IRRs to Limited Partners. Both personally and through his partnerships, Jefferson has acquired 31 MHPs in 15 states since 2007 totaling over $71mm in value. He started the industry’s first MHP podcast and the largest group on LinkedIn dedicated to investing in mobile home parks. Prior to beginning to manage investors’ money in 2014, Jefferson spent seven years investing his own capital in mobile home parks and consulting to high-net-worth families with interests in the manufactured housing industry. Jefferson has been featured in The New York Times, Bloomberg Magazine, and on the Real Money television show. He holds a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania and an MBA from the Wharton School of Business. Listen to this informative Sharkpreneur episode with Jefferson Lilly about investing in mobile home parks. Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show: ●    How mobile home parks are usually priced better than other real estate. ●    How 99% of the time mobile home parks are happy and safe places. ●    Why one to many marketing can help entrepreneurs scale businesses. Connect with Jefferson: Guest Contact Info LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/jeffersonlilly Links Mentioned: mobilehomeinvestors.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by TIKR. Join the free beta today at TIKR.com/hive. They're constantly releasing new updates that make the platform better. I couldn't be more excited to partner with TIKR. ***Disclaimer: Nothing you hear on this podcast is in any way, shape or form to be construed as investment advice. The guest on this podcast may hold positions in any/all names mentioned during the podcast. This is not investment advice and investors should always conduct personal due diligence before investing in any security. Past performance of any funds mentioned are not indicative of future returns.*** Connor Haley is the founder and managing partner of Alta Fox Capital. If you haven't heard of Connor, here's a few highlights: Graduated Harvard University Founded Alta Fox Capital in 2018 and has generated (to date) 40% gross annualized returns #1 Micro Cap Investor on Micro Cap Club Connor is a fantastic investor and great business thinker. He focuses all his attention on the fundamental unit economics of business, as well as what makes for a lasting competitive advantage. He fishes in overlooked areas (small-micro cap stocks) and routinely hunts overseas in search of attractive IRRs. We spend an hour diving into the nuances of business fundamentals, unit economics and why Connor rarely does a DCF model. Here's the time-stamp: [1:36] Intro Questions [7:12] Traditional Education & Self-Taught Investors [13:36] Lessons From The Best Chess Players [17:21] Skewed Institutional Incentives [19:56] Top-Ranked Micro Cap Club Member [22:17] Connor's 3-Pronged Strategy During COVID [27:17] Understanding How Competitors Compete [28:41] The Power of Unit Economic Analysis [34:44] Asking Questions Like An Owner [39:52] Stop Worrying About P/E Ratios [47:11] 3-5 Year Time Horizons & Multiples [51:35] Connor's Q2 Letter & Highlights [55:05] Don't Focus on the Market Narrative [59:47] Looking International For Ideas [60:00] Closing Questions If you're interested in learning more about Connor and Alta Fox, check out the following links: Connor's Twitter Alta Fox Capital Website

James: Hi audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth Through Value-add Real Estate Investing. Last week, we had Ivan Barratt, who owns almost 3000 units, almost $300 million assets and he's doing a lot of deals in the Midwest cities and the States. So today we have Reed Goossens from Wildhorn Capital. Reed owns with his partner Andrew Campbell, who's also a friend. They own like almost 1800 units valued at $250 million and they've been it doing almost four and a half years. Hey Reed, welcome to the show.  Reed: Good day, James, thanks for having me, man.  James: Thanks for coming. I mean I was on your show like a few years back. And you know, it's great to have you back here and I know you guys are doing a lot of deals in central Texas, like where my backyard is. I also do Austin and San Antonio, so it's going to be a good discussion on what do we see in the market, right?  Reed: Exactly, exactly.  James: So did I miss out on something in your introduction? Reed: No, not at all. You've hit the nail on the head. I'm sure a lot of people have heard my story. An Australian guy, moved to the United States back in 2012. My background is in instructional engineering. I moved here to be an expat and just to live in New York City and you know, all these years, seven, eight years later, I have found financial freedom through investing in US real estate and I moved here with little funds, no established network. And my whole shtick is that if I can move here halfway across the world and make it happen, then so can the average American sitting, you know, get off the fence and start investing in real estate because it truly is the, you know, in terms of the Western countries, it's the premium in terms of Western countries for yield and commercial real estate. And we can get into that in a minute. But yeah, that's really my background. James: Yeah, it's very interesting. I think sometimes people who have never lived outside of the US knows how much you can achieve in the US. Your own sweat equity, right? You can really work hard and come up and live and they have to really go outside and see how difficult is it to come up. And you can work day in, day out and you can work 24/7 you know, for seven days. There's always a limit your progress. Right? Reed: Exactly. Exactly. No, 100%. James: So let's go back to the market that you guys are focusing, right? Austin and San Antonio, right? So why did you choose these two markets? Reed: Yeah, so historically, originally back in four and a half years ago, we chose central Texas. I chose central Texas, it had moderate cap rates compared to, I live in Los Angeles, California. I live on the coast, very compressed cap rates, looking for something with a little bit more moderate cap rates. At the time, I was, you know, Koji paid a couple of deals with some preexisting partners. I had my systems from underwriting to deal sourcing. I sort of had that down pat. But what I didn't have down pat was a business partner, boots on the ground and that's where I met Andrew Campbell and we formed a partnership. I was getting involved in underwriting deals in Dallas and San Antonio, not in Austin as yet, you know, that will morph into that in a little bit, but in the beginning, it was just like underwriting small deals, you know, between 50 and 100 units. But what I was missing was the boots on the ground, the broker relationships. And so, what I needed was a partner like Andrew who was there, who was in the thick of it, who could go and you know, hang around the hoop and bug brokers while I sort of underwrote deals and did sort of the more the back end operational stuff. And we found a partnership back in 2007-15 I think it is. And yeah, the rest is sort of history.  We underwrote a lot of deals in the beginning, people took a bet on us in terms of, you know, brokers taking a bet on us and then we got their first deal done. And that morphed too quickly in the second deal and now going on nine deals. So it really came, it stemmed from the fact that I was needing to get a business partner who could take some of the workload off me and do something that I had a skill set that I didn't have, which was boots on the ground, access to brokers, access to deals and walking assets and I really focused on the operational side on the backend. So yeah. James: So can you give some advice to our listeners on, I mean, I know you say you needed boots on the ground, so you looked at the market and, I mean, I'm trying to help some of our listeners who are trying to do like what you're trying to do, right? You are in California, you have a partner here in Austin, Texas. And how did the discovery of that partners and boots on the ground, because it's not like I find a guy in Austin and I'm good with it. There must be some qualities in him.  Reed: Yes.  James: And how did you assess that?  Reed: Let's just rewind the clock. I'd been doing deals prior to meeting Andrew when I was living in New York City, when I first moved to LA, when I first moved to the United States. I flipped a few houses in Philadelphia and I had a business partner on that and it was sort of a JV more than a business partnership. I had people tell me that that particular person not to be named, wasn't the best partner to work with. You know, he was unorganized and blah, blah, blah. And looking back on it, he kind of was and it didn't go that great. Well, I'm no longer in business with that gentleman, but it was, I tell you that story because it's a learning curve, right? My first flip deal in Philadelphia didn't go very well. But between him and I, the old business partner, we were able to get the deal over the line. We didn't lose any investors money. And you know, we then parted ways after that because we just realized we wanted different things in life. But I say that because when you're looking for a partner, you need to understand that there's going to be some times you're going to get into partnerships that may not necessarily jive because you're hungry to get deals done and you're hungry to get the business off the ground. But when you first get started, the thing that attracted me to Andrew and what he attracted to me was we had skill sets that complemented each other. And I think that's the most important thing is the skill sets to complement each other. Because if you don't have those skill sets, then what's the point? And actually, you don't wanna be working on the same thing. So, I saw in him that he had a skill set that I didn't have and he saw in me a skillset that he didn't have; complementary skill sets are really, really important. Also, just the fact that both of us wanted to grind. We were not afraid to roll up the sleeves and work hard. At the time when I met Andrew, he was working a full-time job, I was working a full-time job and we were hustling on the weekends. He had kids, I don't have kids as yet, but you know, he had all these other external factors and so did I, in terms of, my mom was sick in Australia. All this stuff was happening and really, but we still knew that our North star was to get financially free and create a business. And years later, we've achieved that, which is awesome. But when it boils down to it is we are business partners first and friends second. I view Andrew's one of my better friends now, but that's because we came through business partnership, right? Andrew also runs a different crowd than I do. He's very much in the, you know, play golf and all this stuff where I'm more of the go surfing. If you're watching this video, go surfboard in the background. You know, I'm very, very different. Ying to his yang and we did a presentation last week at the best ever conference in Denver, my sorry, in Keystone, Colorado. And what we were talking about where was that real estate is the art and science, right? Real estate form is an art and there's a science of it. Andrew is very much the art and I'm the science behind it. So it's the marriage of two different polar opposites that can really make a successful business and partnership work. So all that type of stuff is like you have to assess what you're good at, right? You have to assess your pros and what you're bad at and do what you don't want to do. But you have to also realize that being in this game of real estate investment, you know, whatever size you do, whether it be from flipping houses all the way through to doing large commercial multi-families like what we do, James, you and I, you have to realize that you need a team. And having someone, a copilot, a co-captain sitting right next to you, bearing taking some of the responsibilities and taking some of the pressure off you as an entrepreneur and business owner, it's so vital. It's paramount to the growth because you will grow by bringing on a partner that works and is harmonious with. Then, you know, looking back, I wouldn't be sitting here today talking about 1800 units and a quarter billion dollars worth of assets under management if I didn't go out and find Andrew, vice versa. He wouldn't also be sitting in the same position if he didn't find me. So it's a combination of seeing what you're good at, what you lack at and seeing if you can find someone that can meet you halfway in the middle and that you can get on and you have those similar goals and visions, but you also can work hard to achieve a goal. James: Got it, got it. So I mean when you guys, I mean, I'm trying to go into this partnership because I think a lot of people are trying to get a partner to partner with them and they just need to know how does a successful partner look like when you were like, cause you guys are very successful in partnering up. So how was that discussion? I mean somebody brought up, okay, let's find out, we partner up. Right? So, and what was the other person saying? Because sometimes people say, Oh, well, I'm not sure yet. Right? So there's not going to be like, let's partner up and everybody's going to be partnering.  Reed: Look, let's not beat around the bush here, it is like dating. If anyone's been out in the dating world, same fricking thing. [09:46crosstalk] a few times. I guess Reed: Exactly. [09:48crosstalk] a few people before you get into bed with someone and skews the crass. But you know, it's an interpersonal relationship. It's a feeling you get from the other person that, Hey, this person could work. Now, it could've gone badly, but it's the same, you know, when you do go out on a date, you get an energy from that person, you can feel that they want the same thing that you want. You have conversations, you get to know one another. It wasn't just like, Hey, let's partner. It was over a period of, you know, three to six months that Andrew flew out to LA with his wife. He got to meet my wife. I flew out to Austin, I met his kids. It was a courtship, you know, similar to how you would date someone. And through that, we were able to have candid conversations about where we're headed, the goals and really align with, you know, he'd lost his mom through cancer, I'd lost my mum through cancer. So we had some very much some things that aligned. Plus also the fact that we could hustle and we could grind and graft hard. You know, that was a plus. And we had complementary skill sets. It sort of was ticking a lot of boxes. But at the end of the day, the first couple of deals, we were very much Reed and Andrew. It was RSN, which was my old company and Wildhorn and we took down this first couple of deals, really as individuals but you know, using our entities to partner in case something did go wrong and we can just, okay, look, we'll sell the deals and we'll go our separate ways.  Over time, that morphs into one banner, one marketing arm and that's where RSN falls away and we went with Wildhorn because he was based in Texas and we became more of a partnership. And look, I'll tell you here today James is that partnerships also don't last forever. You know, Andrew and I have had conversations. I'm from Australia originally. I know that in 10 years' time when I'm 43 years of age, I want to have some investments back in Australia. Andrew might not be involved in those deals but for right now, we're looking to double the portfolio in the next three to five years and we're looking to make some successful exits. And that's all I can promise, right? I don't know what's going to happen in 10 years. The biggest thing for me, James, is that I picked up the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad back in 2009 and, you know, we just finished 2019. So a decade later, I'm sitting on a podcast with you telling you about my assets under management. I had no fricking idea that I would be doing that 10 years later. And so what the message is, don't plan your 10 years ahead, work right now. What's in front of you. See what doors open, which is, you know, Andrew and I are having a really successful partnership and relationship and we're going to double our portfolio next three to five years and just be okay with that. And don't worry, the future will figure itself out from there. You know what I mean? Because you can overestimate what you can achieve in a year, but you can underestimate what you can achieve in a decade. And so my whole story, my main message to people out there is when you do look at partnerships, understand that they morph over time. They may come together for five, 10 years and they might go apart and that's okay. That's how businesses evolve. That's how entrepreneurs evolve as human beings. And you have to also, not sacrifice but surrender to that and understand that that might change in the future and that's okay. Right? Because as you know, multifamily isn't very hot right now. It's everyone, every man and their dog is in there so you might have to pivot and change different business structures. James: I mean, absolutely. That's really good conversation there. But some of the key nuggets I want to recap, right? I mean, a lot of people talk about a partnership is always complementary skills, but it's not that, right? I mean, that's one thing, that's just one part of it but there's a lot of core values. I mean, you and your partner have a lot of core values similarity and take time to discover that, right? I mean, based on your family stories and based on your goal because you can find a partner with complementary skills, but who may not want to hustle. He may not have the goal that you want. I mean, there are certain aspirations that anyone who's hungry for achievement want and you know, he expected the same on this partner and I'm sure you guys found that.  So let's go back to the market that you have chosen in central Texas and I'm sure people have learned it's not only a compromise, it's a lot more than that and you guys have to discover it. And one more thing I want to recap on the partnership is the way that you guys set up your company, right? Two of you guys, I remember the RSN Capital Group, if I'm not mistaken and Andrew has his own and you guys kept it separate, which is really good. That's how I would recommend to anybody who wants to do a partnership. Keep the entity separate, put it into one LLC and buy a deal and in case something doesn't work out, you can always fade it out. Right. So yeah, I've seen a lot of people where on day one itself, create one LLC and hold partners on one LLC and they can never split up when something happens. Right. So, awesome. So let's go to the market. You chose central Texas, you found your first deal. Did you find the deal first or did you analyze the submarket first? Reed: All of the above. I was looking in Dallas, I was looking in San Antonio. I was just really seeing what... I was underwriting a lot of deals. Before that first deal came to me back in 2000...sorry, leading up to that point was when Andrew and I met then we went and underwrite like a hundred deals before we go that first deal under contract. But if I look at the why behind central Texas, you also gotta understand where I come from and I made this speech last Thursday night at the best ever conference, I come from a country in Australia and you have to put it in context, right? Because part of my special power, part of my superhero, part of my special sauce that I bring to Wildhorn Capital is my international perspective. And the reason that is so special is though I can look at things through a different lens. So what do I mean by that? Well, I compare just to Australia and America, right? Australia and America, the land of mass, I'm talking about excluding, let's ignore Alaska for a second, but just those two landmasses, they're roughly the same size, give or take. However, in Australia, we can only inhabit about 18 to 19% of our land because the rest is a desert. And so everything is full. Everyone is forced into major cities. Everyone's forced to the coast. And so we have a small population, we only have 24 million people. Unlike here in America where you can inhabit North to South, East to West and you have 300 million people so we don't even have 1/10th.  The reason I'm bringing all this up is because I grew up in an area where we have a high demand but low supply environment, right? What does that mean when you have high demand, low supply environment? You have low cap rates. In major markets in Australia, in major markets in other Western countries, commercial real estate cap rates are sub 3%. I'm going to spout off some big names, but you look at London, you look at Sydney, you look at Hong Kong, you look at Singapore, office space and then there's probably the only thing that is a common thread between all of them. Office space in those markets are sub 3% maybe even 2%; where you can buy office space in New York City or LA or now even Austin for full cap.  And so when you've got these international perspectives of like, wow, I've come from a market where historically there's been low cap rates for decades because of supply and demand and I see the same thing happening in central Texas where the GDP of all of Texas is greater than that of all of Australia. I'm doubling down on that and that market, because a place like Austin, Texas has now transitioned from a boom-bust town into a tier-one market like Los Angeles, like Sydney, like Singapore, like London. Where dirt is trading for as much or even more as the coastal market. So when you have high demand like you do in Austin, low supply coupled with a very high barrier to entry for new product, which means buying dirt, getting an approved construction, doubling down on existing assets in a market like Austin means that coming to the recession in the next couple of years, you'll be able to ride that out because you have a high demand and a low supply.  I also come from a country where we have not had a recession in over 27 years because of, obviously physical policy, the way in which we invest our pension funds is a lot deeper than that. But again, I say this all to give you the lens that I look through when I'm looking at different assets. One other thing that not many people know, multifamily does not exist in Australia because of the lack of financing vehicles. We only have 25 million people. We have four or five major banks. Those four or five major banks do not lend money on a new apartment construction unless you've pre-sold X amount of units, which is a combo market. So they lend on a build to sell, not a build to own. Right? And so when you don't have those sophisticated financing vehicles as you do here in these States, you know, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae interest only for 10 years, Ameritrade over 30 years, the fact that multifamily doesn't even exist in Australia when I first moved here coupled with population GDP growth, seeing markets transition from a boom-bust into a high demand, low supply environment, seeing markets transition into, it's a high barrier to entry for new product, all those things add to why I would double down in a market like that into help me ride out the next 10 years.  Because remember James, the last 10 years that we've had just had, since 2009, has been the best 10 years for multifamily, probably in history, right? We're not going to see the next 10 years are not going to be the same. And so as an investor, as an operator, you need to look for markets where there's true growth. Now, you compare Austin to New York and San Francisco and LA, money is still being invested in those markets because of the demand. So people still invest in these coastal markets because of the longterm gains that they are going to make. And a lot of people have made a lot of money in a short term period over the last 10 years and I think that's going to be the same trend moving forward. And that isn't completely incorrect. And if you think that's going to happen, you need to go invest in something else, in my opinion, James: It's crazy on how much the tide has gone up or the past 10 years and everybody thinks multifamily is the same, right? It's a commodity now, but it's not. I mean, at some point the wage growth is going to hit some limitation and you're going to have a problem, right? So you have to be really ready as when you say; that's really awesome. And the other thing about Austin though, other than coastal cities, a lot of coastal cities are getting rent control, whereas Austin, I don't think that we'll ever get a rent control. Even those20:30unclear] city, but it's in there. Reed: Yeah. Even if that was to happen, people still make a lot of money in places like LA, New York, San Francisco, they're making a lot of money and it's because of the value of the dirt. And everyone's got to realize you buy real estate for the value and now that is what is intrinsically is going to grow over time. The fact that when I first moved to this country, I noticed that land, at least in LA, in New York and San Francisco, land is key. You're right, it's what holds the value that, the asset depreciates over time, but in central Texas, the asset is more valuable than the land, that's slowly starting to change, right? As demographics changes, people move as population grows, as GDP grows, all that sort of stuff in terms of supply and demand; that then means that dirt is worth more, right? Dirt is where the value is. And if you hold it for a long period of time, I'm talking seven to 10 years, you're going to do just fine. James: I was happy to know that. You know, I'm not sure whether you'd known, Tim Ferris moved to Austin like a few months ago, a few years ago. I need to find out why. I mean, I listen to his podcast and his podcast is awesome, right? So, let's go to underwriting. So let's say you get a deal today, right? What are the things, what are the sniff test that you do before you look into the second level details? Reed: Yeah, look, stiff test, it's a hard thing for a sniff test these days because there's so much more to this story. It goes back to the art and the science of underwriting. Back in the day, five, six years ago, yeah, you can do back of the napkin and  does it make sense? Yes. Does it not make sense? No, because you had so much, you had a cap rate that was moderate and you had an interest rate that, you know, was a Delta of maybe 200 basis points you could get cash flow. Today, it's not like that; that spread between interest rates and cap rates have compressed, right? Its cash flow becomes harder to achieve, thus you need to understand the story and that's where the art comes into it, not necessarily the science. So I still look for a spread between going in cap rate or a stabilized cap rate and interest rates. I want to make sure there's at least a hundred basis points in there and that's growing over time and when I model it out over five or seven years, that continues to grow. But I also want to see now, I'm looking at deals where there's other opportunities. So, we are about to buy a deal south of the river in Austin, Texas. It's the lowest cash flowing deal we've ever put out. And we're oversubscribed to that deal because of the location. Now what you don't know, if you looked at just at the numbers on that thing, you think, Oh God, it's a really low cap rate, but you don't realize that if you don't know the story behind what's happening in that area, 600 units are going to be completely demolished and taken offline in the next 24 months. So do you think that's going to have an impact on our rents and the occupancy? Of course, it is. But how do you underwrite to that? You can't, you've got to underwrite it if it's a value add multifamily.  This is where the story comes in and where you need to go bigger than the sniff test because this is what market we're in. Also, we know that this land that we're buying, we're buying 12 acres where the density could be doubled on this plot of land. It can go from 294 units, we could go and put 500 units on it. Now whether you go and execute on that as a different thing, but that could be an exit option for someone in the future for a developer to buy if all these investments in the South of the river there near the Oracle is to come to fruition. Then again, I'm seeing very similar trends as if I'm looking at an ally or a New York market. So these are all the things that I look at now and you have to go deeper. You have to do more than just a sniff test because we're not in those days anymore. We're in a different market and we have to spend time. I have four analysts that work for me and they spend a minimum of three to four hours on any one deal. Andrew is the guy that makes sure he feels out the deals that we see but if he thinks that there's a bit of a something a little bit more to sniff out and he's got a little bit more an art to it, than the science, then we will dive deep into it and we'll spend three or four hours underwriting it. And it still might not work at that point, but we've gone and exhausted all avenues to make sure that it isn't a deal that works for us. James: So, what you're saying is you have stopped looking for the normal cash flowing value-add deal. You're looking more for the path of progress and you know the story behind the deal as the future appreciation I would say, future potential in that deal., I guess. Reed: Future potential because your whole podcast name is called increasing your wealth through adding value, right? You may add value by entitling the land to have a bigger a density on it. That is adding value.  James: Absolutely. Absolutely.  Reed: Any way you add value but historically it's been all, we'll put lipstick on a pig and hopefully it looks good. So that's gone, right? There are still those markets out there. There's still these deals out there. You can still find them and don't get me wrong, but when you become more sophisticated when you become more advanced in your underwriting when you become more experienced, you start seeing different trends and why the big guys, and let's not beat around the bush here, I've worked for big developers in LA, in New York, and they don't have podcasts, they don't have books, but they own half of Beverly Hills. The reason the way the big dogs are, they're still buying these pieces of dirt, they're still buying these trophy assets and putting it in. They're still selling to rates, they're still selling to insurance companies and making a lot of money and you've never heard of their names. So I've come from that background and that is where exactly how my mindset has now shifted to start understanding the pennies dropped, ah, and now I know why those guys do what they do is because of the value which the supply and demand curve, we go back to that a lot, that demand is high and supply is low. James:  I mean it's very interesting, look at things differently. And I met someone the other day who was buying land on a, it's called a submerge land, land under the Lake. And she was saying, Oh, I sell that. I say, how do you sell that? So it's a very interesting story on when a boat comes, you know, you need to dock on your land, even though it's under the water, but they can still sell it. Mixed with different kinds of people, go out of this, the normal value add, I would . To see those kinds of things. So yeah, it's absolutely, you know, it makes sense to do creative stuff as long as you're doing it in the right market. Reed: It does all come down to market and it does all come down to just reacting to the market. Right? You got to react and you go to, as entrepreneurs, we're riding the wave, the wave of change is ever-evolving. And so we have to be ready to look at things through a different lens to not be ignorant of other options that you can do to your property. Because you know, it's about being creative, just be creative with the piece of land and you can figure out many different ways in which you can make money from it. So it's just understanding that rather than just plugging, implying and you know, buying at a six cap and getting interest rates at a full cap and having all this cashflow and yada, yada, yada. There are still those deals out there, they're a lot harder to find and thus you need to be a little bit more educated in terms of the value that you bring to your asset now coming into, you know, a new economy that we're in. James: So do you see some of the investors who are used to getting cashflow and doing value add on the rent and all that, do you see some of the investors dropped out? I mean they don't buy into the idea or you think a lot more people buy into the idea or you just finding different people buying into the ideas? Reed: Last year we rolled out and we were the first ones in the industry to do it in the multifamily industry, at least in our little circle, the AB structure, we brought that to market first. We closed on a deal first. The way we do that is by offering 25% of the equity has 10% preferred return paid current. And that means that you can satisfy those cashflow customers or investors with that class A bucket. Class B bucket that they have an accruing pref but they get all the back end. They get 70% of the backend so they're looking for the equity multiple and we then divide it out the investor group into two pots. We can now see who wants what but what it does mean is that if we buy a deal that cashflow is 2% out of the gate, which is pretty much a lot of deals only cash flow very little out of the gate, you can pay that 10% pref straight up to 25% of the equity.  If you have 25% of the equity not participating in the backend, then that juices the IRR to the class B. All these things we are doing in terms of structure because we are reacting to the market and because we're not just blindly going along and not getting any deals done because, oh, it doesn't work like it used to work. Well, we're changing the way in which we structure ideas. We're changing the way in which we underwrite ideals to back into making sure we're appeasing our investors that have some cashflow, a bucket but we've also got the equity appreciation bucket and having honest, candid conversations with our investors that, hi, if you give me 100,000 bucks, does it really matter if I give you seven grand every year? Is that going to change your life or does it more matter that you give me $100,000 and in five or six years' time, I'll give you back $250,000? Is that more valuable to you?  When you have those conversations with those investors, they start thinking differently. And people that they think, Oh, the pref isn't being met, oh, that means it's a bad deal. No, it just means that the deal is getting out of the gate into different velocities where another deal is. And so looking at the longterm play, real estate, James, is a longterm play, not a get rich quick. And that's why I say a lot of people have done so well with their money in the last 10 years. They've doubled, triple their money in three to five years and I think that's still the norm. Well it's not and that's where you have to readjust your expectations. And that's where, again, my international perspective where I've come from a country where if you double your money in 10 years, you're doing just fine. The longterm play is what real estate is and people sometimes lose that vision of what longterm means and they think long term is three years. James: Yeah, that's true. Sometimes people are just so used to what they make in the past 2012 to 2017/18, keep on looking for the same yield and you know, that kind of deal is no more existing.  Reed: And investors appreciate being candid. Investors appreciate having those open and honest conversations. And why would you take a lower return? You're taking a lower turn because it's risk-adjusted. You're not investing in a tertiary market or a secondary market where it may get really rattled if they have another recession, you're investing in lower risk, and thus you have to adjust your expectations when you go and invest in a market like Austin with lower risk, low margins. James: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Risk-adjusted return is something that a lot of people don't understand. I mean if you're making 6% in an awesome market compared to you're making a projected 8% I would think is projection in the beginning, maybe before you invest, everything's projection, right? Someone tells you they're going to give you a 20% IRR in a tertiary market compared to someone's going to give you a 10% IRR in a solid market. That 10% is actually much better than the 20%  because the risk is lower.  Reed: The risk is lower. But also you look at like if you want no risk, go put your money in a treasury, the 10 year treasury and that's what 1.32% if you want zero risk, go do that. And if I'm offering you six or 7% return, I think I'd rather place my money. So backed by physical real estate where you can have all the tax depreciation, no other investment holds up. So obviously the stock market is doing very, very well, but you have to also combat apples to apples and that is, you know, one is risk, two is volatility, three is tax depreciation and four is access to capital. And so all those things play into effect when you think about real estate versus other ways in which you can make money in this world. So yeah. James: Yeah. I think I saw the way you guys structure the class A and B, where you have one person class A is like flat 10% or in a certain percentage, I can't remember the number. Reed: It's flat 10% but the class side does not participate in the back end and then you've got class B that has an accruing 7% pref and you catch up upon sale but they get 70% of the back end. And those investors are more focused on the equity multiple rather than the cash flow. And thus, you're splitting the bucket but you still offer them both. The investors can still have some in A and some in B, but you limit the cost A to 25% of the equity. So it helps, you know, juice the IRR. James: And does the class A, the 10%, get paid from day one itself?  Reed: Correct.  James: Okay. Okay. Reed: You can do the math, right? So if you have $1 million of equity, 25% of $1 million of equity is $250,000. 10% of $250,000 is 25 grand, a year. Now, $1 million in equity, that's probably going to buy a $4 million property. You think a $4 million property could cashflow in any one year, 25 grand? I think it could. Yeah. So that's where the special souls comes in because you're paying 10% on 25% of the equity. So thus your cashflow out of the gate can be lower and you can still hit that 10% preferable. James: Yeah. So do you see...we trying to get filled up fast. I know one has a smaller pool, the other one's bigger, right?  Reed: So, we also have a higher barrier to entry on the class A so we have $100,000 minimum. And we have a lot of people wanting class A. The thing is we tend to see costs, on the first deal, it got filled up really quickly. On the second deal, it was a little bit more equal, you know? So, but here's the other thing, class A investor is if my deal, I'm not hiding anyone from it and it's the truth, they get paid first, right? So if I go and refi and I hold it for five years and I decided I'm not going to sell, I'm actually going to refi, well, I can refi it and pay all my investors costs I owe their money and they're out of the deal. And I can replace class A with cheaper, cheaper debt, right?  Cause if I'm paying them 10% of their money and I can get debt at full percent, then I've just essentially, you know, taking them out of the deal. Now there's a risk there that they're out, right? And I have investors saying, well you could just come along and do that. It's like yes I can. That's part of, you know, real estate and debt stacks. Right. I can just replace as the value of the asset grows, I can replace the debt and I could potentially have a debt number that could take you all out of the deal. They've gotta be okay with that. But they sit in a safer position, they sit just behind the debt. They don't sit in class B, they sit in class A side.   James: Got it. Got it. So it looks like if you look at class A and you are saying is much more attractive. A lot of people compared it to class B [inaudible] right. Can you hold on, let me just fix my staff cause I didn't want this to be half. Okay, good. So forget about it. So let's start again. So class A has a lot more attractiveness to it and compared to class B because class A people get 10% flat, I guess, right?  Reed: Well, yes and no, there's pros and cons for both. I just explained the class A that yes, I sit at and I have a 10% pref, but their cap did it at a certain return. They cannot earn any more than 10%.  James: And you can buy them out at a refi? Reed:  I can buy them out at any stage and if we smack the deal out of the park and 20% IRRs, they share none of that because they want to sit in a safer position. And that's where class B, yes, you're sitting behind class A, but you get all the profits, you know, we split all the profits, profit sharing at the end. And so again, you have to understand capital stacks and you have to understand risk in relationship, just capital stacks in order to really grasp your mind around the AB structure. It's pretty simple once explained. And I can show you a diagram if for any investors who might be interested in it, but again, it's just a different way of looking at it and I come from the ground up construction world. I've built a lot of ground up multi-family. This is exactly how multi-families constructed a finance. Your debt, you have a mez equity piece, you have equity, and then you have the GP and it's just capital stack and math. So it's very basic, once you get your head wrapped around it. And probably a lot of people scratching their heads thinking, Oh my God, what's he talking about? James: No, no, for me, it's pretty simple. I mean, I think it makes sense. I mean there's risk in both classes and you take that risk. I mean, even in my book about, you know, different investors want different things. Some people just want cashflow, 10% flat cash flow. Some people really want the equity. I mean, it depends on their life cycle, where they are in your life cycle. Reed: And so as an operator, I've got to continue offering that. And the way I've offered it in terms of how deals and now underwriting is, that's how I've split the baby from the bathwater as they say. You know, I've split it and made sure that I can serve as both the type of investors who one wants cash flow, the other one wants longterm appreciation. James: Got it. Got it, got it. So, Reed, let's go to more personal stuff. I mean, can you name like top three things that you think is your secret sauce to success? Reed: That's a hard one. Look, there are no secrets. Hard work is...let's talk about secrets. Hard work is so underestimated. I moved to this country. I didn't have a job. I was an engineer. I literally dawned on a suit and I knocked on 50 different engineering joints and engineering companies until I found a person to say yes. I'm not afraid of hard work. Am I lucky? Have I got a bit of luck in this? Sure. I'm lucky that I was born into a really awesome family that, you know, I come from a blue-collar working background, I've got blue-collar work ethic. I'm not afraid to roll up the sleeves and get my hands dirty. I'm also not afraid to back myself. I think that's another key to success is like you've got to learn and you've got to be okay with betting on yourself. And I remember when I first took that plane from Australia, I quit my job, my well paying job in Australia and I moved to the United States to give it a crack. As I say, you know, I was betting on myself. I was betting that I can figure this out. I might not have had the answers at that point, but I knew that I was resourceful enough to figure it out and I have. And so those two things, there's a little bit of luck in there, but it's also hard work and learning to back yourself; are really too important skill sets, life skill sets that that people need to learn. And I've developed that through going and backpacking around the world with, you know, $2,000 in my pocket, you know, understanding the value of a dollar and stretching a dollar. You know, people ask me all the time, well, what advice could you give to a 20-year-old? Go backpacking, go to a third world country, go backpacking for two years, come back and then you go find yourself, you go in the university of life, figure it out, go understand a little bit of the street ways and then come back and you'll get started. I think going out and widening your horizon, taking off the blinkers and experiencing other cultures, otherwise how people live their lives is all parts of learning and why I that I've been very lucky that I was able to travel and I paid for my own travel. I've saved my own money. I was able to go out and do it and experience different cultures, take on their advice, take on the wisdom and internalize it and spit it out and say this is what I want to do with my life. So a couple of pieces of advice of success there. James: Yeah, absolutely. Now I realize why people go backpacking and never really understand, but you made it very clear, right? Cause you really like on the street with a shoestring budget and you're talking to different people, you're talking to normal people. Reed: You get a skill.  I'll tell you a story. I was in South America, this is 10 years ago and I had a rule. I was backpacking by myself. The most invigorating thing I've ever done in my entire life, James i,s to backpack by myself. I had no one to answer to, I would meet someone at a hostel or a group of people and say, this is awesome, let's go. But you get really bloody good at determining if you're going to be, you know, you only have 30 seconds to make an impression and I'm going to either have to have a beer with you or I'm not gonna have a beer with you. And it was very quick, that skill became very, very quick. I had a rule that when I was backpacking by myself, you know, if I go into a bar and I hadn't met someone within three drinks, I'll move to another bar. I never left that first bar because it was always about putting yourself out there, being vulnerable, talking to other backpackers and getting that interpersonal skills really sharpened and really honed in. And that's part of what you learned from backpacking.  James: That's very interesting. That's the perspective that you get when you go backpacking. Let's go to another one more aspect of your life. Is there a proud moment in your life that you can never forget until the end? One proud moment that you're really, really proud that you think, I'm really proud of myself. Reed: I think getting that first job in New York City, getting that first job, getting that visa, I was proud that that was, I did it. Like that was the coming to America story. In order to stay, I needed a visa, I needed a job. And so that proud mate, if I got that job, it meant that that was, you know, talk about doors opening. That was the first door that I could unlock. And that then meant that there's a bunch of other doors behind it. But that meant I could stay and I could figure it out. And that was the first proud moment that I think, it was, you know, again, I was literally walking the pavements, knocking on doors because in 2012 you know, putting your resume out into the indeed.com or whatever just was useless. I needed to go knock on doors and say, Hey, here's my resume. I'm more looking for a job. And a lot of people said no, but it takes that one, yes. And that one yes can change your life. So that one yes for the job that meant that I could stay in the United States. It meant I can continue the journey.  James: Got it. Got it. So one other question from one of the passive investors is like, is there any advice that you would give to passive investors that are investing in a syndicated commercial real estate? Reed: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is you have to have an alignment of interest, trust, and transparency but do you get on with the operator? Because the number one thing that passive investors want to invest in is they don't actually invest in the deal, the deal is sort of second secondary, right? The first thing is the person. Who re you investing with, who is your partner that you're going to go into this deal with, who is the operator who's going to take control of this asset? And if you don't like them or you don't have that energy that I spoke about earlier, then don't invest with them. And it's very easy to figure out who you like and who you don't like. And again, this is a world, of  life is short and you want to do business with people who you like and you want to be with, right? That's the whole point of why we do this business. And it goes both ways, both from the operation point of view, my point of view, and also from the passive investor point of view, we're all in this business to make money. Let's do it with people that we like. So I think that's the short of it. James: So Reed, why don't you tell our audience and listeners how to get hold of you and how to Reed: Yeah, sure. So I've got for those listeners who like to read, I've got two books. I've got the Investing in the US which is on Amazon. It was a bestseller last year. You can find that and I've also got 10,000 Miles to the American Dream, a story of financial freedom. So those two books are on my website or on Amazon. You can go to reedgoossens.com, that's www.reedgoossens.com. Everything's up there. My podcasts are up there, my blogs are up there. If you have any questions, you can click on little links and stuff. And I always offer people or listeners, if they're coming through LA and they want to meet up for a beer or lunch, I'm always interested to meet up and talk shop. You just got to email me at info@reedgoossens.com and just give me enough heads up and let me know when you come through town. James: Awesome. Great. Welcome. And thanks for coming into the show and I'm sure you added tons of value. Reed: Thank you very much, mate.  James: Alright, bye.  

On this week's show, we discuss how to pass the CFA exam, the range of performance in S&P 500 companies, factor crashes, why quants matter more than index funds, influencer ghostwriters, understanding IRRs, what Amazon could do next, the best movies ever and much more.   Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense Michael Batnick’s The Irrelevant Investor Like us on Facebook And feel free to shoot us an email at animalspiritspod@gmail.com with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation.

Business Day TV — Graeme Körner from Körner Perspective chose EPE Capital Partners as his stock pick of the day and Ricus Reeders from PSG Wealth Sandton chose RichemontKörner said: "I'm gonna go with Ethos Capital (EPE) and I'lltell you why; it gives you something different, if you look at a lot of the investment companies the like of Remgro for example they haven't been great allocators of capital if you have to be honest. These guys (EPE Capital) have got a 30 year track record of delivering IRRs of over 20%."Reeders said: "Also bottom of the barrel stuff but I like it. Richmond for two reasons, the Swiss market is pushing to new highs, Richmond will hopefully go with that crowd. Secondly, considering where we are on the market, sort of slowing global economy it is relatively stable because topping off of the luxury market and I also think unlike the tobacco companies they are selling products which are still aspirational, people want to wear it and be seen to be wearing it."

Edward “Eddie” Lorin founded Strategic Realty Holdings, LLC as a culmination of his years of experience in investment real estate and as an offshoot of Strategic Realty Capital (SRC), which he also co-founded. Since 2008, SRC has purchased over 15,000 units in more than 70 transactions valued at over $1 Billion, and has built a strong performing portfolio. All of SRC’s apartment assets were purchased opportunistically and successfully re-positioned into thriving communities. He is an affordable housing preservationist as co-founder of his venture Alliant Strategic to preserve and breathe new life into year 15 LIHTC (Low Income Housing Tax Credit) properties. He is also the founder of Impact Housing REIT, a Reg A+ Crowdfunded Platform to buy and transform neglected apartment buildings into thriving communities that are affordable. Title: Counting Pennies to Jack-in-the-Box to $1B in Transaction with Eddie Lorin  James:  Hi, audience, welcome to Achieve Wealth Podcast, the podcast where we focused on value-add commercial real estate investment. Today we have a really awesome guest. His name is Eddie Lorin. Eddie founded Strategic Realty Holdings, it's also an offshoot from Strategic Realty Capital, which was also cofounded by him. And since 2008, SRC, that's the acronym, has purchased over 15,000 units, over 70 transactions valued over 1 billion and they've built a very strong performing portfolio. Hey, Eddie, why don't you introduce yourself and tell our audience about things that I forgot to mention that I missed out.    Eddie: Hello audience. We have a very basic formula. We give people a clean, safe, affordable place to live. Treat them with respect and dignity, they stay, they pay, they refer their friends. That's it, very simple. But it's quite complicated as you know. There's a lot that goes into sourcing deals, diligencing deals, financing them, closing them, executing a business plan, getting them stabilized, refinancing and it's a whole big cycle that you'll do in your sleep if you've done enough of them. But it's not easy and that's not for the faint of heart as we know.    James: Yeah. So what do you think about people coming in new into the business and want to do this business? I mean, what advice do you have for them?   Eddie: You better have some really, really good capital behind you. Today, it's so hard, it's so competitive to get deals closed without the money raised. It's very difficult. It used to be you'd tie a deal up and any good deal would attract money, but it's not always the case anymore. That's the frustration. You gotta really be careful, you could get caught leaving deposits because you don't get the money in time. So number one is you gotta have a big pile of capital and capital that you can make money with. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it anymore. It's really a different market today.    James: So that's completely different from my understanding. I thought now we are at the market peak, capital is very easy to find if you find a good deal. Is that wrong?     Eddie: No, absolutely incorrect. What is happening is that a lot of this money that's supposedly on the sidelines raised money at 20 IRRs and they need to make a net of 15 to 17 so they say there's a lot of capital there, but they can't invest it in deals unless they can make money, which you don't blame them. So unless you raise money now in the new normal like we're doing a new fund and our pref is going to be 6% and we're going to have a promote over six, now you can make some money, but if your pref is 10, forget it. So these people out there with the equity that's sitting on the sidelines, they're still looking for returns that don't exist. So yes, there's a lot of money on the sidelines, but try to get him to go in unless there's blood on the streets, which there ain't no more blood left.    James: So are you saying that the investors who used to get like 18 20% IRR actually is missing the whole point? I mean there's no more deals like that anymore and you are going much lower returns.  Eddie: Yeah, you have to. And finding that capital, that's patient appreciative capital at a lower cost is the hard part.    James: Okay. So what do you advise for the people who are still waiting for that high investment return?    Eddie: Go find cheap capital.    James: How are you finding cheap capital?    Eddie: I do it every day and we talk to probably five, 10 people a day. We have CBREs or brokerage firm going out and talking to investors. We're just banging the doors every day. It's really hard; even for someone established like me.    James: So do you syndicate your deals? I mean from private investors or do you use private equity?    Eddie: Depends. I use institutional equity, I use private equity firms and we also syndicate individual deals, it just depends. Every deal has its own DNA and every deal has its own character and you have to decide per deal what you're going to do and what your business plan because it will affect how long you sell it or hold it, whether you're going to sell or refinance. The whole gamut needs to be taken into account and it's all based on the cost of capital and the investor temperament.    James: So why don't you take an approach of not doing deals right now since a lot of people expect a lot more returns right now?    Eddie: Well, like everyone, I have an engine to keep going and there's never a good time to do a bad deal or a bad time to do a good deal. Doesn't mean there are no opportunities, It's just the returns are lower. Doesn't mean they're bad deals. With interest rates, the 10-year treasury is still at two and a half, what should you expect as an investor? You shouldn't expect more current return than three or 400 bips with upside. So that means 6, 7%. But when people are looking for more, that means they're in the middle so you need to go around the middlemen and go straight to the investors and that's what is most important. And those investors have to be realistic and that's the challenge.    James: So when you're talking about middle man, you're talking about people who raise money from investors and come to you because they are taking a cut?    Eddie:  That's right.    James: Got it. So you're talking about the equity raises. Yeah. For me, we raise money directly from our investors.    Eddie: That's great.    James: We usually don't have a problem with the middle man taking a cut. But there are a lot of people who are doing equity raises, function nowadays, right?  Eddie: If they raise their money and it's too expensive so they can't do deals today and their money's going to go back in a year or two. And then these investors are going to say, oh, well, I better get real, meaning the institutional investors.    James: Got it. Got it. So let's go back to your business model, right? So you have done almost a billion dollars in transactions starting in 2008. Why was it starting in 2008? Is it because that was the bottom you identified and you started it?    Eddie: Well, I worked for another company that was part of the great recession and we all parted ways and scrambled and started over, that's why.    James: Okay, okay. But how are you adapting enough to start in 2008 because that was the time where everything was low?    Eddie: Well, 2008 actually was still slipping. It was a falling knife. 2009 and 10 were really the bottom and we bought and flipped houses in 2008 and 9 because the deals weren't making sense and the equity wasn't there. But eventually, our first deal in Vegas in 2010, we paid 22 a door. 28 a door for a property in San Antonio in your backyard.    James: Wow! Yeah. I remember San Antonio when I was starting to buy it was like 35 or 40 and it started growing quickly to 50 55 within six months. It's crazy.    Eddie:  Yes. That's right.  James: That's interesting. So tell me about your business model because I mean every time I talked to you, this second, I'm talking to you, you are very, very passionate about giving people a good, safe housing and that's it, right? Which is very, very important. And it's hard to find people who are passionate about that. Can you tell me about your passion about why do you believe that's an important objective for your business?    Eddie: Well, I grew up very poor and I know what it's like to not be able to rub two nickels together to figure it out. It was a treat to count out $2 and 12 cents to go to Jack in the box. I remember those days and the humiliation associated with it. And everybody deserves a good place to live and to be with respect and dignity. So I've always taken pride in trying to take blight and make light. I think there's value in creating thriving communities out of really dilapidated stuff. And to me, that's my challenge and that's how I create value. Any schmuck can buy a building and ride the market up. The real talent is buying something and seeing the value and the vision and executing a plan and taking that property from blight to light.    James: Got it. Got it. So how do you find that kind of deals nowadays? I mean, a lot of deals has been rehabbed multiple times.     Eddie: But some of them are still owned for 30 40 years. I'm looking at a deal in New Orleans, 37 years it's been owned by the same family. As I said, there's never a good time to do a bad deal or a bad time to do a good deal. You've got a nation full of a huge number of apartment complexes and there's a ton of older owners that have bled to death in terms of cash flow and there's 2- $300 in rent bumps potentially there and still remaining affordable. But getting that pop is only a result of them starving the property of capital. So when they're ready to sell, then you can go in and refresh, it's pretty simple. It's just you got to look at it a lot more deals to find that works. But again, you must not be looking for 20 IRRs anymore, it doesn't exist.    James: So you've been in that kind of deals where people own it for like 40 years, I mean, the sellers and the brokers are going to bump up the price. I mean even though there's a value-add for the buyer, but I think the seller still have that because the market is so good.     Eddie: Did you go mute? There you are.     James: Okay. Sorry about that. So what I'm saying is even though the property has been owned for a long time, I think the brokers and the seller do expect a high price I guess, right?    Eddie: Yes, but you're solving now to a six and a half or seven exit on your cap rate on cost versus we used to underwrite to an eight or a nine because there's so much demand, there's a certain amount of just appreciation that's going to happen with the shortage of housing that's affordable in this country. And the workforce housing is a BNC product is still going to be, you know, you're talking 30 40% of replacement cost and growing because replacement costs are so challenging. So the value will eventually go up as well.    James: So what's your strategy buying deals at this peak of a market? I mean what about loan strategy, investor expectation? I think you talked a bit more about the [13:32inaudible] investor, but what about the loan strategy or Rehab Strategy? You know, how long you're going to hold date, what's your strategy like? Because we believe we are at the peak of the market.    Eddie: I don't think we're at the peak of the market. I think we're at a plateau. I don't see us going back down, there's too much demand for housing period. Not for the new stuff, but for our stuff, the NC product, will continue to have a demand, especially a good quality product that's affordable because more and more people are coming off the couch. I remember that when they all doubled up and the kids were living at home, they're all starting to start their lives and it's going to continue and a lot of the older people are selling their houses and they all want to rent as well. They don't want the responsibility, they don't want to take care of anything. So you see the demand is still tremendous and I don't see any sign of a liquidity problem, which is what causes, well, 9/11 cause the recession in 2001 people got spooked after the DOTCOM bust. Seems like PE ratios are still reasonable in terms of the global markets. And of course, the great recession was about the housing over leveraged. Well, I don't see overleverage, I still think there are condo buildings that still won't sell until 50% are sold so you can't even get a loan on condo development. So you don't have a de-glut of condos out there and houses are all gobbled up by the Blackstones of the world and they're on a rental scenario and that's a different person who rents a house versus an apartment. I just don't see, I just think it we're plateauing, we're not at a peak. As long as there's demand, this world is about supply and demand, period, no matter what it is. Whether they're tulips or apartments, and as long as there's tremendous demand, especially at the low end, we'll be fine. So you got to find the niche,    James: Find a niche. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go to the market. So you are in California and you are buying nationwide, is that right?    Eddie: Yeah, we're buying in the beltway. I love the Maryland area with Amazon coming by and we own in Florida. I love Texas, Dallas mainly. Las Vegas, Colorado. And I'm finding stuff that's distressed still. Now, it's not economic distress, it's just distressed. It's not keeping up with the market and the capital, people bleed their properties. So there's always meat on the bone if you can find it. I've been doing this a long time.    James: I can see that now. Absolutely. There are so many things to learn from you. How's your team being set up right now? I'm sure you're not one person doing this. Can you describe how your team is set up in terms of asset management, acquisition analyst, transaction and all that?    Eddie: Yeah. We have probably four in the acquisition team to analysts and two guys going out. I have two construction managers to execute the business plan. We use outside contractors to do our work. It still takes work to ride herd on them and then, we have two asset managers and accounting, but based on that, you know what, 10 or 12 something like that. You know, it fluctuates. Some people work from home and they're busy and they are traveling and so you don't always think of them and they're not in the office, but they're out working. I don't care as long as you do your job,  James: How do you split your time managing them? Do you have someone who's assisting you managing the whole operation or do you manage your whole operation yourself?    Eddie: Well, my head of asset management primarily deals with all the operations and I only talk to him once a day and make decisions. Like he just popped in and I said, I want a podcast so I'll talk to him after. But I spend more of my time on acquisitions, analysis, and investors, you know, dealing with them and the lenders.    James: Okay. Yeah. Because like right now, I think I'm at 1300 units and I'm trying to see how do I grow to your level. And I'm trying to figure out how do people with 15,000 units manage their whole team?    Eddie:  I'm down to 7,000 now.    James: That's still a huge amount. But you have an acquisition head, I mean, asset management head, which has acquisition and then you have accountants. Okay, got it.     Eddie: And construction is really important.     James: Got It, got it. Does construction mean that you're talking about remodeling and Rehab and all that?    Eddie: Yeah. Rehab, getting the bids together, putting the business plan, dealing with the draws from the lenders, all that stuff.    James: That's a lot of work, especially draws from the lenders. Have you ever thought about other asset class other than multifamily or you just focused on multifamily?    Eddie: I don't feel, especially now as we talked about in the beginning, the credibility to raise money today for anything other than what you do. You get pigeonholed and I'm fine with that. They don't want to take a flyer. Wait, I thought you'd do apartments so you want to do a retail deal? I didn't even try. It's hard enough to raise money staying in your lane. Switching lanes, I just think as suicide, my personal opinion.    James: Yeah. I mean everybody would be doubting you, right? What does this guy know about something else, especially after you built so many skills and credibility in one asset class? So got it. Let's talk about value-add because I'm sure you are an expert in value-add, right? Because you have been doing a lot of units and all have value-add. So what's the most important value that you see whenever you take a project, what's the most, not most of but most valuable value-add?    Eddie: Well, it's really just whatever the marketing walk, as we call it. What do they see as they go from the leasing office, the amenities there? Is it a nice clubhouse and then you want them to see outdoor fitness, social areas with barbecues, outdoor kitchens, state of the art fitness center even though they'll never use it, they want to see it. They dream of using, honestly, they don't. And then just general dog parks and then you go inside the units and as long as they're clean and safe and feel like they're well done, that's it. And then plenty of units that don't even have that still. The old strappy pool furniture and ugly coping and shitty rod iron that's rusting. That kind of stuff is what turns people off.    James: So how do you standardize this process in terms of implementation across your property?    Eddie: Well, I rely on my head of construction who basically knows what we do. And you have a certain bucket for if you're buying a high rise, it's a different feel. And we bought a high rise in Vegas and it's like Vegas. We have a really cool downstairs, we took an Italian restaurant, a 3000 square feet and transformed it into a club room and Yoga Studio, fitness center, all that. I mean, it's really high end. That's one thing. Or it's more of a lower income area. I mean, but those are the average rents are 1400 bucks. If your average rents are 800 bucks, you're going to be doing lower end stuff, but you still want to give them the fake Gucci bag, so to speak.    James: Got it, got it, got it. So one thing I read in your website is you would like to internalize older mentality, operations management and I think that's important, but I find it just so hard to implement that to our property management, even though we own our own property management company. And how do you do it in your operation?    Eddie: Well, I do not do property management because I'm all over the country and I don't want to make a decision on an asset based on the fact that I have employees there. So, I have different crews. I'm the client, I get a lot of respect as a result of that. We have good relationships and I just try to instill that mentality with all my people and it just works, I don't know. There's art and science and business. That's the art, I can't describe it. The science you can underwrite, you can do all these things, but how does the property smell when you walk in, is it friendly? That's the art of it. Do people feel comfortable and appreciated? Again, that's the art of the business that you can't make it science, it's art and you need both. You asked the question but I can't answer it.    James: Yeah. Yeah. Because it's always hard whenever you have third-party management managing your property.    Eddie: No it isn't it.     James: It's not? Okay.     Eddie: Because you fire them if don't do what you need them to do. And they wouldn't be in the business if they didn't want to serve people. And you just got to inspire in them and give them the tools so they feel comfortable that you're giving everything they need to do to do their job, no matter if they work for you or not. And I feel like it's better than they don't work for me because I always have the threat. Oh, Eddie's coming. They're not like, Oh, I [23:40inaudible] because he's got employee issues.    James: Okay. So that's interesting. And you also mentioned something about high touch investor relation culture. So how do you do that with your investor base?  Eddie:  Oh, it's just about communication and contact. Anybody calls me, I answer the phone and call them back within a day. That's it. It's a really simple formula. If they don't need you, they don't want you to bother them unless you got another deal. But if they got a problem, they got a K1 issue if they call you, you better call him back and say, hey, we screwed up. We're doing this. Our accountants behind, there are new tax laws, whatever it is, communication is the only way. And not to dodge or duck someone like a wuss, you screw up, you face the facts and say, hey, I screwed up, but we're doing the best we can. I promise you that's it. It's really basic.     James: Do you delegate your investigation or you are direct to the investment?    Eddie: Absolutely not.     James: Okay.     Eddie: I mean the reporting I don't do, accounting does, but if someone has a problem, it's me. We're trying to do a deal, it's me.    James: Yes. Yes. I think that's important too. So coming back to the low-income housing tax credit, I think you own like 15 of those or you have owned it in the past. How does the whole low-income housing tax credit business work?    Eddie: That's a whole podcast.    James: At a high level. At a very high level.  Eddie: The government gives incentives to banks and insurance companies to invest in affordable housing. That's how affordable housing gets built. Okay? In essence, free money. So it's free equity, but they're getting a tax loss as a result. So let's say it costs $100,000 a unit to build something, for simple math. It's more now, but whatever. And you get a loan, bonds for $50,000 and there are tax credits that size up to about 35,000 and that leaves $15,000 left to build it. So that $15,000 usually, comes up with from the government, they give you subsidy loans and all kinds of low-interest loans. It's a very complicated business, but that $35,000 of equity disappears after 10 15 years. So now your basis in the property is only the $15 and 50 on the loan, which is amortized. So now you're able to offer lower rents because you're not paying a return. You're paying a tax loss on that 35 bucks if that makes sense. And we buy those properties. My affiliate partner, they supply the tax credits, My business with them, I've been a joint venture, we buy those deals after they're done, after year 15 and reinvigorate them and bring them up to maximum allowable rents because the rents do move up based on area median income. And again, it's very complicated but those bases and that's a business that's a unique niche and we're good at it.    James: Okay, got it. Got it. So it looks like 10 to 15 years, you have some kind of assistance from the government and after that, you can bring it up to your market value and that    Eddie: No, you bring it up to max allowable rents as decided. It extends beyond. The tax credits go away, but the rent restrictions go from 30 to 55 years and you have to live within those means. And that's how they remain affordable.   James: Got it, go it.  You also have a REIT, I'm my right?    Eddie: No.    James: Because I say something on REIT. So is that right?    Eddie: I tried to raise a reggae plus I broke my pic, lost a ton of money and you just got to move on. But I thought I thought the world or the country was ready for the ability to invest as low as a thousand dollars into housing, but I didn't raise enough and I had to raise enough for the SCC. So I scrapped.    James: Yeah, I didn't know RAGA, you have a minimum to raise and you have to raise it to that amount.    Eddie: Yeah. You're spending $800,00, you got to have some minimum to make it work. Otherwise, you'll never be sustainable. That's what happened. I lost lots of money. Your first loss is your best loss. Maybe in five years, it'll change, but...    James: interesting. Interesting. So can you give us some advice on what is your secret sauce to success? I mean, like one to three things, why do you think you are successful so that people can learn from it?    Eddie: Creativity, tenacity and grit. I'm sorry to be so vague, but it's really 30 years of experience. That's the art of the business. Anybody can learn the science, the art comes from your gut and breaking your pick and getting your teeth knocked down. There's no other way to describe it. It's a very tough business. It's a great business, but it's a very tough business. That's why people burn out. There are so many things to juggle and so much risk you take that investors have no idea what you go through. That's the funny thing. And they all want their returns and they want this when you take the risk, and it's a funny formula, but it works. You got to do it but there's no secret sauce other than grit.    James: Have you ever thought about, I'm just going to give up all of these and go passive, invest in someone else?    Eddie:  No, because I don't think they can do it like I can. That's why I have built up 30 years of experience. I'm getting better at what I do. Why would I jump ship now?     James: Yeah, because sometimes as you mentioned, it can be very tiring, right? I mean, sometimes we do a lot of hard work and sometimes it just feels sad that some passive investors don't see how much we do in value-add.    Eddie: They have no idea and it's a shame because they really think they know and they have no idea because it's our job to make it turnkey and easy for them. But that's a blessing and a curse. Because the blessing is they have a good investment and don't have to think about it. But if they only knew what goes into it, they would help us as advisors. And there's nothing you can do about it. It's just the way the world works.     James: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.   Eddie: The more you live, the more you know, the less you know, the more blissful you can be.    James: Especially on the mortgage side of it and the multifamily lending. If you know a lot of details about how that whole industry works, you will feel sad and say, oh my God, I should have done this. But it's all part of learning.    Eddie: Yeah, it's all saw dust. You can only move forward and learn from what your mistakes are. But people that are looking for silver bullet and perfection doesn't exist, it really doesn't.    James: Got it. Got it. Got it. So do you have any proud moment in your life that you can think about it when in your later part of your life and really be proud of it? Is there anything that you want to share?    Eddie: Well I think I'm really good at that staying with things. I had a deal in Maryland that the county exercise the right of first refusal. So I went through all this effort, due diligence and then all of a sudden, the county had the right to buy it out from under me. And I'm like, what? Are you kidding? And I pulled it out on my gut and I went to fight, I hired a lawyer and I hired some politicians to help me out. And long story short, we won the deal and we own it today. And that's what keeps me going is that I can win. I don't always win when I do, then it's glorious because I beat the system. And that's fun.    James: Yeah, that's crazy. How can a county have the first right of refusal, right?     Eddie: It's the law.    James: In some places, I guess. So what about looking at your daily habits, what do you think is some of the more important habit that you think makes you very successful in your day to day life?    Eddie: I wake up every day and be thankful for what I have. And try not to compare myself to others because everybody you look at, has their own story and you've got to remind yourself this is my story. I'm doing the best I can and accept the crap that you're dealt. And you can fight it and piss and moan or you can just deal with it. The day you accept reality and accept what's happening that's where happiness comes from, plus thankfulness. Just emotionally staying positive and realistic. That's to me. And then you've got to exercise and you got to be kind to people and do the right thing. And I'm just very straightforward. I tell people like it is, some people don't like it, I don't care, that's who I am. I'm not gonna apologize for who I am. But sometimes, you've got to be more politically correct, but then you look at our president and you say, really? Do you? How'd that happen?    James: Awesome. Awesome. So last question. So can you give three to five advice for newbies who are trying to get started in this business, in multifamily rehab and value-add?    Eddie: Number one, go to work as a property manager. Learn what it's like to collect the rent, lease an apartment, turning unit, and deal with all the day to day action. That's the most important thing. If you've never run a property, you don't understand where the revenue comes from. There are people who need to be happy and pay their bills. So that's number one, be a property manager, be a leasing assistant, be a marketing director at a property. Learn the business that way, then work for someone who actually owns property like us and then hopefully, go learn how to be a lender. Take finance courses, do everything you can in your life to understand all aspects of the business. Then nobody can snow you.     And number four would be in construction. Learn construction costs. Learn what it takes to turn a unit, what materials costs. All these things. Learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. Because most of the people that come out of school, they go straight into a big private equity company and they don't have any clue how to turn a unit or what the essence of this business is. And that's your competitive advantage because people can't take advantage of you because you know more than they do and they smell it.    James: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Eddie, it was nice and awesome having you on the podcast. Do you want to let the audience know how to get hold of you? If you want people to reach out to you.    Eddie: Sure. Strategicrh.com, Strategic Realty Holdings, Alliance Strategic, alliantstrategic.com. We're also there too; working on opportunities, zones and affordable housing and workforce housing. Always happy to be of service. This is what we have to do. We have to pay it forward. We all had help when our lives and we have to help others. That's my goal.     James:  That's awesome. Awesome. Very happy to have you here. And I think that's it. Audience if you guys want to join us on Facebook, you can go to Multifamily Investor's Group on Facebook and join us over there. And that's it. Thanks for being here. Thanks, Eddie.    Eddie: Thank you.   

Andrew is the Co-CEO of Aperture, a real estate tech and investment company that has systematized the acquisition, rehabilitation and sale of distressed residential real estate across the US and is producing unlevered IRRs in excess of 50%. Aperture is launching its Property Coin ICO (security token), the first professionally managed portfolio of real estate assets and loans available via the blockchain to help fund the growth of its existing business. Prior to forming Aperture, Andrew was co-head of capital markets at the largest fix and flip operator in the US and before that was an investment banker focused on the residential real estate and mortgage industries for 12+ years. Andrew graduated from Babson College with a major in Finance.

It’s no secret that delving into the multifamily investment space will place your investor bucks in the right places. The secret is placed in understanding the ins and the outs of starting on this path, including the risks involved, effectively vetting the market, and pursuing successful financial structures. This show is sure to help you begin this journey with the mystery lifted. Veena Jetti and Sapan Talati joined me to provide our audience with high-quality information on cap rates, CapEx, and IRRs. They spill their very best tactics for investing in multifamily properties. They share their process workflow in detail and provide listeners with sure-fire knowledge intended to answer some of the industry’s most asked questions. Make sure to subscribe to get our free templates!

We're getting your prepared for next week's AME Roundup 2018 and Vancouver Resource Investment Conference! Matt runs down where you can catch The Northern Miner (1:49) and what we'll be up to at both shows. Meanwhile, we also dig into the World Gold Council's recently-released "Outlook 2018 Global economic trends and their impact on gold" (8:35) and chat about some major themes in the precious metal space heading into the new year. Matt talks global economic growth, shrinking balance sheets, rising interest rates, and more! We also discuss the year-on-year trends in copper, zinc, and nickel. (13:10) And we're excited to bring you the maiden edition of our Engineering Corner! (14:20) This week we're joined by Procon Mining & Tunnelling senior engineer Stefan Wozniak to dig into the details of scoping and mine development. We chat about 43-101 technical reporting (18:35), the down-low on IRRs and NPVs (20:00), what to look for in press releases (24:39), and much much more! Finally, staff writer Richard Quarisa brings us another Mining Minute with weekly sponsor McEwen Mining (TSX: MUX; NYSE: MUX). Executive chairman Rob McEwen, joins us to chat about the company (43:30). Articles referenced: New book: The Art and Humour of John Kilburn – Cartoons from The Northern Miner: www.northernminer.com/news/new-book-…er/1003792274/ BMO raises price forecast for molybdenum: www.northernminer.com/commodities-ma…um/1003792909/ Vanadium ‘metal to watch' in 2018, analyst says: www.northernminer.com/news/vanadium-…ys/1003792703/ ‘We can use the power of machine learning': PMF roundtable discusses innovation in mining: www.northernminer.com/news/pmf-round…ng/1003791762/ Nevada green-lights McEwen Mining's Gold Bar: www.northernminer.com/news/mcewen-mi…da/1003791264/ Video: Progressive Mine Forum 2017: www.northernminer.com/news/progressi…am/1003790631/ BMO's Hamilton on industrial and commodity outlook: www.northernminer.com/news/bmos-hami…ok/1003792601/ Music Credits: "OctoBlues" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ "AcidJazz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ "Eighties Actions" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

In this episode of China Money Podcast, guest Eric Solberg, founder and CEO of Asia-focused private equity and wealth management firm EXS Capital, talked to our host Nina Xiang. He discussed how he is preparing to invest in China's property sector in its downturn, and why he thinks there are attractive investment opportunities in the Chinese steel sector. Read an excerpt below, but be sure to listen to the full episode in audio. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free in the iTunes store. Q: You resigned from Citigroup Venture Capital International Asia in 2007 and started EXS Capital. What was your consideration behind that decision? A: In early 2007, private equity deals in Asia were very expensive. The average public market PE multiple was 60 times. CVCI has raised a US$4.3 billion global emerging markets fund at that time. As all partners, I was required to invest a very large portion of my net worth, in fact, Citi was going to loan me a lot of money, so that I can make a large personal investment in this fund. But I was concerned that valuations were too high. So I resigned. I withdrew all my money from the fund and sold my Citi stock at US$54, which went all the way down to 97 cents. That turned out to be a lucky decision. Q: What happened to that fund? A: In my understanding, the fund invested very aggressively in 2007 and 2008. That fund was sold recently to a much smaller group. I am no longer involved in that fund, but my guess is that the fund didn't lose a lot of money, also didn't make a lot of money. It did get investors the type of performance they were hoping for. Q: Give us more background on EXS Capital. What does the name stand for? A: It's a play on the initials of my and my son's name, which is Xavier. But we call it "excess" capital, because we think everybody needs "excess capital"; it's our private joke. Essentially, we believe that the volatility in the Asian markets makes the typical closed-end, finite life private equity funds difficult. So if you can have either permanent capital, or can do this on a deal-by-deal basis, we think Asia is the best place to do private equity. Q: Your firm did try to raise an evergreen fund, but it wasn't successful? A: We did try to raise a permanent capital vehicle around 2011. At that time, investors are putting a lot of money into domestic Chinese or Indian funds. There weren't the appetite for that new type of vehicle. Some day, we may go back to that idea now that we've built a longer and stronger track record. But in the meantime, our deal-by-deal basis approach has given us a great deal of flexibility. Q: Chinese private equity firm Capital Today is planning to raise a private equity fund with a 28-year fund life. What do you think will be its biggest challenge? A: Frankly, I don't think that's a right way to do it. Taking a standard private equity fund model, and just making the fund life very long, doesn't solve the problem. If you look at more sophisticated evergreen funds such as Golden Gate Capital and General Atlantic, they have rolling mechanisms to allow investors in and out, and to periodically realize investments. That more creative approach is a better solution. Q: Can you tell us more about a deal you did in China, which was a buyout of a distressed shareholder in a Chinese residential project called Project Byblos? A: We were working with a developer who had a single project with a 3900-unit residential project in Southern China on the coast. This developer was originally financed by a Southeast Asian group, which got into trouble after the global financial crisis. The developer saw this as a good opportunity to buy out this Southeast Asian group. We raised some money for the developer, and structured the deal to give incoming investors minimum IRRs (internal rate of return), as well as sharing the upside with the developer. That worked out well.

The photo was taken outside Polish Radio in Warsaw in 2005. The programme that accompanies it was made in August 1988, a difficult time for Poland. There were at least 15 illegal FM stations on the air, trying to combat the official government voice coming out of the Polish Radio building.  Do you remember international reply coupons? If you were trying to get a reply out of a radio station, sometimes enclosing an IRC would help out. In theory, such a coupon could be exchanged for postage stamps in another country. However, in my experience, they often turned out to be an expesive proposition. We discuss IRC's in this programme.  This was also the week that General Zia was toppled from power in Pakistan and IRRS was preparing broadcasts from Northern Italy. If you've arrived at this page from Thomas Witherspoon's SWL Blog, then you may like to know that Media Network's Pubspot talks to John Bryant of Fine Tuning about 9 minutes into the programme. Professor John Campbell looks at clandestine antennas and reviews a book about Harold Beverage called