Podcast appearances and mentions of brian cranston

Robert Mazur served for 27 years as a special agent for the IRS Criminal Investigation Division, the Customs Service and the Drug Enforcement Agency working predominantly as a undercover agent working as a money launderer.  Robert wrote two terrific books, "The Infiltrator" and "The Betrayal", the first of which was turned into a movie which starred Brian Cranston as none other than Robert Mazur! Robert joins CSI Chat and we touch on a number of topics including: - How did someone go from working at the Internal Revenue Agency (IRS) to working undercover going up against the most dangerous drug cartels in the world? - What is the mental skill set one needs in order to prepare themselves to go undercover?  How do you prepare your family for this dangerous experience? - What is the "day in the life" of an undercover agent?  How do you deal with the stress and the fear of potentially being caught? Robert is an American hero and an incredible person who has been fighting against the illegal drug trade in the United States his entire life.  We are very lucky to have him join "CSI Chat".  

Timecode: 0:00 Start 00:33 The gang debates what the assumed KFCR recording time is 07:35 Feits sister's wild proposal story 20:34 The Last of Us Recap 46:00 Friends and Neighbors recap 51:28 Warfare recap 54:49 Sinners Recap 59:38 Kevin got a Bronco 01:07:54 Feits will come and empty your fridge 01:11:43 Pope Francis Died on Easter Monday 01:14:10 potential next popes list: https://apnews.com/article/next-pope-contenders-list-101d68d61be2401a85310e34b45371a9 01:25:13 Dean Norris Interview +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blue Chew: Try your first month of BlueChew FREE when you use promo code KFC -- just pay $5 shipping. https://BlueChew.com Cremo: You can find Cremo's new line of antiperspirants and deodorants at Target or https://Target.com Jackpocket: GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). 18+ (19+ in NE, 21+ in AZ). Physically present where Jackpocket operates. Jackpocket is a lottery courier and not affiliated with any State Lottery. Eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. 1 per new customer. Enter promo code at checkout for $5 non-withdrawable, single-use credit valid for draw-based games. Promo code expires on 12/31/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Terms: jkpt.co/draw. Sponsored by Jackpocket. Based on 2024 iOS download data collected by Sensor Tower. Factor: Get started at https://factormeals.com/kfc50off and use code kfc50off to get 50 percent off plus FREE shipping on your first box. BetterHelp: KFC Radio is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/KFC today to get 10% off your first month.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kfcr

We're almost done with 2024. So close we can taste it. But first, it's one of the year's biggest misses in ARGYLLE.ARGYLLEDIRECTED BY: Matthew VaughnRELEASED: February 2, 2024STARRING: Bryce Dallas Howard, Henry Cavill, Sam Rockwell, Brian Cranston, Catherine O'Hara, Samuel L JacksonBUDGET: $120M BOX OFFICE: $96.2MESTIMATED LOSS: $100MNEXT EPISODE: We wrap up the 2024 year in review with MADAME WEBShow Notes:Whirlybird Camhttps://imgur.com/a/UgHIt9W0:00 Intro 4:01 Show & tell9:08 This week's movie

Book a Free Consultation with Peter Today is a podcast request. Yes! I take requests. So if you have an idea for a podcast, send me an email. So this is a listener who wanted to talk about the idea of being too nice.  So being too nice. She said, how often have you heard, “You're too nice.”  I have had a few times and while I appreciate the other person's honesty and transparency, it got me thinking about the undertone behind that phrase, especially when it comes to going after what you want as an actor, performer or artist.  In pop culture, actors can get a general reputation for being, dare I say it, self centered or too into themselves.  But you also hear about those mostly established actors who also get the, “Oh, they're so great to work with and are so nice. What rules do you follow? What rules do you fudge a little?” Especially if you're still trying to establish yourself as an actor.  Does being too nice translate into being too safe?  Is it a balance of being kind with luck? and timing.  When someone says this, what are they communicating?  You're not being fully honest with yourself or would be not being nice mean focusing on others, not on yourself energy. I decided to take this subject and tackle it this week. And give five kind of points on how to navigate that being too nice, but not being stepped on as an actor and an artist. Now, some of these things, guess what? I know big surprise. If you listen to my podcast on a regular basis, you will notice they are, some of them sound familiar.  And the first one is just that, set clear boundaries.  Being kind doesn't mean saying yes to everything.  My favorite codependents out there. Are you hearing that?  Being kind doesn't mean saying yes to everything. Clearly define your limits, and that means with yourself, such as your working hours, your ideas on a particular project, and communicate, how you would want to be communicated.  So if somebody keeps emailing you, but you don't see it, tell them, “Hey, it would be better to text me instead.” Now there's something else I wanted to talk about with this. I really think that the idea of being too kind and being too, aggressive, which I'm going to get to in a minute.  It also has to do with knowing yourself emotionally, and being emotionally self sufficient, so that your niceness doesn't overcompensate for your lack of belief in yourself. One of the things I talk about in the weekly adjustment, which is my core work class is that I talk about how important it is to be able to get yourself out of those emotional and mental ruts or spirals so that you don't try and look to your work or to your business to fix you. How many decades have I done that?  So it's so essential that you set boundaries with yourself.  I'm also going to give you a tip on if you are one of those people who just is yes.  Memorize these words: Let me get back to you.  I just need to check on something. Let me get back to you.  And then you if you think you want to say yes, you can say that sounds good, but let me get back to you.  And if you can memorize that before saying yes, you're going to help yourself out, especially during the busy season. Okay. Next one. Be assertive, but not aggressive. In a business meeting recently, someone said “you're very aggressive.” And I, I literally said, “No, I'm not. I said, I'm actually assertive.”  And then they said to me, they go, “You know what? You're right. You're assertive. You're not aggressive.”  And I could tell that I had really thrown them for a loop because they wanted to put that, aggressive thing on me, but I wasn't being aggressive. I was just extremely assertive.  Stating how I felt and what I needed and ultimately in the end, they really respected that and I got a very positive result from that meeting in the end.  Being assertive allows you to express your needs and your ideas confidently.  But while respecting other people, I talk about in boundary setting, telling someone how you feel and what you need, but leaving the word you out, meaning you keep it with you. It also prevents others from mistaking your kindness for weakness, which so often happens.  Again, I want to be assertive, but all of this is tied into this valuable core work that I talk about.  And that is that I'm not going to other people to fill my insecurity. That I am enough in and of myself. I am able to be assertive and not overcompensate by being aggressive because, all the time through my life, I never got what I wanted, but this time I'm going to.  Again, really using I when you're being assertive. Use the I statement. Keep it with you again. State how you feel and what you need, but leave the word you out and keep it with I.  Okay, tip number three in the balancing the too nice with with, being I don't know not nice. Or, no no asserting yourself. Is align generosity with strategy.  When you offer someone value, what that does is it builds goodwill. And that also should align with your values and your goals.  It's that idea that Brian Cranston talks about in his book. It's about dropping off the gift of your talent. So I go into an audition with the idea of, “Hey, this is how I would do it. This is how I would solve the problem of the problem, the challenge of this character. So I'm going to do it the way I see it.” “And then, hey, if you have any adjustments or any other ideas, hey, let's play together and let's do that so that we're working on something together.”  Avoid giving away too much of your time is something that you also want to do.  You want to, again, give, you want to do something that mutually benefits people in this industry. Win, win. You need an actor to book, I'm a talented actor who can book. Not only am I good at my job, but I know I'm good at my job.  Being Decisive Podcast Being decisive and also being solution oriented.  Nice people may hesitate to make tough decisions, and that's because they're worried that they might make a mistake. If you make a mistake, you will be able to handle the consequences of that mistake.  You will, because we are never given more than we can handle, but we are given more than we can control.  In business, and this is show business, decisiveness earns respect. You want to be empathetic, sorry I'm having trouble speaking today, empathetic. But you also want to be firm when, stating your boundaries or or stating your opinion. And that sometimes will involve, potential conflict. If you are one of those people who do not like conflict, make your ears grow bigger and set up a consultation with me. We gotta get that shit sorted. Because the best acting is about conflict.  Finally, is also holding other people accountable.  And this means that you're not so nice that people walk all over you.  I used to be somebody like that. And if you've only known me recently, you would find that hilariously funny. Because I'm not exactly someone who lets people walk all over them. But OMG! did I used to be.  Somebody would treat me poorly. I'd make an excuse of why either I deserved it or why they treated me so badly.  I would try and justify their unjustifiable behavior. Don't let kindness excuse unprofessional behavior from others make sure that you know when people say they're going to follow up with you that you follow up with them if they don't do so in a timely manner, you want to respect yourself and respect your timelines and respect yourself on people who you work with. And what I mean by that is, is that if you find that someone in the business is not saying, not doing what they say they're going to do, it may be time for you to look elsewhere for someone else to fit your needs.  With all of this, the goal is being emotionally self sufficient so that you know you. So that you know when someone isn't treating you that you don't deserve it, and you know how to defend yourself.  And also, you know yourself to not say that word, yes, immediately, but go back and say, let me get back to you. So that you can take some time out away from the conversation, away from the situation and really see if that thing that you're about to say yes to is right for you.

Grab a sleigh and SLAY, because we're flying into the holidays with 'Twas the Night! Liz and Mike discuss Harambe (RIP), how awkward it is to photoshop genitals, pooping in an airport, and how hot Brian Cranston is when he's a real a-hole. Hosts: Liz Matijasic and Mike Mitra Producer: Mike Mitra Art is AI-generated

As Melanie and I prepared for this episode one question kept coming up ... Who is the protagonist? Melanie argues that the entire family is the protagonist, but I think that Olive (who is the Little Miss Sunshine contestant) is the protagonist. It's an interesting question and our discussion about it is even more interesting. If you're writing a multi-POV story, be sure to check out this episode! -V."Exposition is all about the facts that we need to convey to the reader so that they can follow a story without getting confused." Valerie FrancisRelated Story Nerd EpisodesSeason 7 Season 8Nashville (Season 5, Episode 505) For access to writing templates and worksheets, and more than 70 hours of training (all for free), subscribe to Valerie's Inner Circle.To learn to read like a writer, visit Melanie's website.Follow Valerie on X, Instagram and Threads @valerie_francisFollow Melanie on X, Instagram and Facebook @MelanieHillAuthor

Hello and welcome to Episode 52 of Jurassic Minutes, The February issue.  Where we discuss recent movie, toy and franchise news for the Jurassic series.    Introductions Brad David   On this episode we will be discussing  Yes we are going to talk about the new film. Actually that's pretty much all we are going to talk about…   So stay tuned as we discuss all of that and more... But first,   Recent Toy or Prop Purchases? Brad - nil  Dave - TLW Bull T-Rex HC repaint   Now for the news 00:12:07 -new Jurassic film on the way, and a lot closer to release then most thought. Now all this must be taken with a grain of salt. We've already seen new stories confirmed and then things have fallen through so nothing is set in concrete. It's why we don't rush to get news content out there like everyone else. The other podcasts have already had lengthy discussions about the new movie news and now most of it is a mute point because of what we will discuss shortly.    Here's what we know; -The Hollywood reporter wrote an article about David koepp returning to pen new Jurassic film. Lastest works include Indy 5. And although his final script wasn't used by mangold, the original story idea was Micheal koepps.    Universal said the script was written and in a place they thought was strong enough to start production on the seventh film. https://www.facebook.com/100064603813478/posts/pfbid02Wjqesv1ixRrtwo5qJn2Q4FWEhBgmUktB18cTVN4cemsX4GmmWV9FE2iW64fBcn2el/   -it was then revealed Steve Brusatte was returning as paleontology consultant for upcoming Jurassic film!  https://www.facebook.com/100064603813478/posts/pfbid02yZs7eHqWXZLKWfk1qonZxLFPzjbiVka5qxbSoMimuifFG3HSPnZdL9SmC2cG2m5fl/   -and then came the flood of small click bait articles about Bryce returning, maybe directing, Brian Cranston wanting to be in it with Bryce. Apparently Bryce was asked to return, spoiler alert for later she said no. And then someone reported that none of the original or world cast would be returning. No would Colin travarrow. Which is for the best. He gave us a trilogy story. Time for someone else to give us a new take and story.    -next, According to Deadline Hollywood, David Leitch was in talks to direct the next Jurassic film and its release date was confirmed as July 2nd, 2025!   As for the release date. A lot are saying that's way too early, including me and the feeling of it being rushed is very present.     First up to defend it, don't forget dominion was pushed back a year. In that year they wouldn't have changed anything with the film, we've discussed this before. But it would have given them an early start on what was coming next. And yes during the marketing for dominion it was said to be the final chapter in the jurassic story etc etc, but frank Marshall had said it's the start of a new jurassic era. So it can be pretty much assumed the new film will feature the post dominion world.     As for the director, His known in the franchise as the second unit director for jw, he also did a fast & furious and John wick film, and some others that aren't really important now because…… https://www.facebook.com/100064603813478/posts/pfbid02WzamZGuJHZLK4i8BtujTcSA8cX7vSCbuNnV8NgtbjhaXD393xqUkyP98atRZHuvJl/   -Deadline reported talks have fallen through with David Leitch, who will no longer direct the next jurassic film.  It would appear fans jumped the gun with shit talking the director before he was even locked in to direct. All the previous articles and reports state “in talks” or “in negotiations” everyone assumed it was a sure thing. https://www.facebook.com/100064603813478/posts/pfbid0371aBJfwiDDs5EpF3z3miVZ3R71WNBjXGxUkxr1vyo5SvQR8rw2HGV93hpnR7TeTql/   We talked earlier about David koepp writing the Indy script and then mangold coming in and changing a whole part of it. Even David's the lost world script changed a lot during production, we've talked a lot about that. Having a strong scrip now doesn't mean you'll have a ready film in just 15 months. No director at this point concerns me, either a puppet director will come in and make the film universal want, or they will hire someone that will then make changes to the script and next thing the films being moved to July 2026.     We also don't know what else has been going on behind the scenes. At this point animatronics and pre production should be started and leaks will probably start coming out shortly, plus principal photography will most likely start mid year with a large portion being filmed in England once again.   So time will tell. With all the Jurassic films averaging a billion dollars we were wrong to think universal would just sit on the franchise for a few years. This also probably rule out any live action tv show for the time being, unless assets made for this film will continue on in a tv format. It hasn't been announced if this is the start of a new trilogy, but personally with the world being a lot smaller then a star war or trek universe maybe go back to individual movies with maybe one or two through points but new casts, new locations and maybe some old ones, and just give us good story telling and dinosaurs.    00:47:17 -okay so also in the news docket, while we are talking David Leitch, he was the second unit director on jurassic world, and filmed the unimog chase scene from that film. A scene we talked a lot about because of some interesting structures in the back ground that looked very abandoned jurassic park. His production assistant recently dumped a heap of info on twitter, including the location of that scene.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/PMjUVa6oXP47LJfu6   01:06:36 -original JP Rex assets used in resent episode of La Brae. Beloved to be season 3 episode 6.    -that's pretty much it for the news, there was an announcement of a Hammond collection Claire but no photos yet so we will check that out next month. We are also heading into the 10th anniversary of jurassic world so expect a lot of jw themed figures on the way. Mattel hasn't done a lot with the first film so this year we might be getting thier chance on that toy line.   -also just yesterday beyond the gates posted up some images from 1996 of some of the ingen unimogs presumable parked on the back lot either pre or post filming of the lost world. These photos keep surfacing, what else is out there yet to be found.   Outro Thank you for listening.  -Anything else we'd like to bring up? You can find us the following ways   web site: www.jurassicminutes.wordpress.com Email: thelostworldminute@gmail.com Facebook page: groups/jurassicminutes Twitter: @jurassicMinute Instagram: Jurassicmimutes Links to The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3, and Jurassic World Minutes can be found at the web site.   

Brian Cranston!

Welcome to Bottle Episodes! The show where Daniel Crow and David Piccolomini watch the best of terrible television! This week we're covering spawn of Baywatch itself. V.I.P.! Pamela Anderson plays Valerie Irons(no relation to Jeremy) as she stumbles her way through Bodyguarding stardom. Though the real star is early Brian Cranston and not one but TWO other Breaking Bad cast members. And Iced Tea as the Prophet. Comedian Eric Owusu loves V.I.P. more than life itself! (Comedy special defending V.I.P.) V.I.P. Bottle Episode: S02E08 Val Goes to Town Watch V.I.P. on Tubi, Roku TV, Youtube, or the Link Follow David on Instagram @DPicComedy and check out his special Goblin King Follow Crow @DanielFCrow

Today joining me in studio is Jake Monaco, a maestro of melodies, who has left an indelible mark on the world of film composition both of the animated and 2 d variety. Jake has worked on some amazing projects from studios like Pixar and Disney. Jake's journey has taken him from rocking in a band during his college years to taking a deep dive into music through intensive music study programs and mentorship that has led to an impressive career. He has orchestrated the musical landscapes for hit animated and other movies, from Brian Cranston and Annette Benning to my fave AbFab Girls, to talking Cars and Forks. So Let's get into my need for unnecessary puns and delve into the rhythm of Jake's journey, exploring the notes that have shaped the cinematic experiences we all can now cherish, and welcome to the Left of Str8 show for the first time, the handsome and talented Mr. Jake Monaco. Summary Jake Monaco, a composer known for his work in film and television, discusses his journey in the industry, his personal life, and his approach to scoring different projects. He shares his experiences working on LGBTQ-themed projects and the challenges he has faced. Jake also talks about his creative process and the importance of being involved early in the production process. He offers advice for aspiring musicians and composers. In this conversation, Jake Monaco discusses his passion for helping the world and providing for those less fortunate. He also shares his ideal date day at Disneyland or Disney World. Takeaways Being involved early in the production process allows for better collaboration and understanding of the project's vision. Working on LGBTQ-themed projects provides an opportunity to contribute to the community and create meaningful stories. The creative process in composing for film and television involves navigating feedback and finding the right balance between different creative inputs. Technology has made the recording process more convenient, but there is a lack of social interaction compared to in-person sessions. Aspiring musicians and composers should consider pursuing education in film scoring and gaining real-world experience through internships or assistantships. Jake Monaco believes in using his talents to make a positive impact on the world. He envisions a future where he can help food grow and provide for those in need. Jake Monaco's perfect date day would be experiencing all that Disneyland or Disney World has to offer. He values taking the time to absorb the amazingness of the Disney Parks. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:30 Coming Out and Personal Life 06:35 Meeting His Husband and Adoption 10:04 Using Social Media as a Memory Box 12:38 Composing for Film and Television 19:13 Creative Process and Approaching Different Projects 22:41 Challenges in the Industry 24:07 Working on LGBTQ Projects 26:16 Scoring the Short Film 'Out' 30:46 Scoring the Documentary 'Through the Windows' and the Animation 'Pete' 35:49 Advice for Aspiring Musicians and Composers 44:17 Helping the World and Providing for Others 45:08 Perfect Date Day at Disneyland or Disney World

I'll tell you I'm talking about. When I first started sharing my professional journey, I focused on people who were interested in screenwriting. But over the years, my audience has expanded to include all sorts of creative types: actors, artists, novelists, playwrights, performers, and more. With that said, I'm rebranding my podcast. I'll still talk about screenwriting, but I'll interview a wider variety of people living their own creative lives. I hope they'll inspire you to do the same.Show NotesFree Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin:But also it's like when you put energy into something legit energy, not like thinking or dreaming, but when you actually do the work, thingsPhil Hudson:Have a way ofMichael Jamin:Manifesting like, oh, there's opportunities have a way of appearing becausePhil Hudson:You've put work into it.Michael Jamin:Like these variousPhil Hudson:Press opportunitiesMichael Jamin:That I've done and other things that have sprung out because of that. That's just from doing the energyPhil Hudson:Of posting on social mediaMichael Jamin:And just sharing as much knowledge as I can.Phil Hudson:You're listening to, what the Hell is Michael Jamin talkingMichael Jamin:About?Phil Hudson:I'll tell you what I'm talkingMichael Jamin:About. I'm talking about creativity, I'm talking aboutPhil Hudson:Writing, and I'm talking about reinventing yourselfMichael Jamin:Through the arts. Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin and I'm new. I'm all new right now because I've done a rebrand on the podcast. It was called, obviously Screenwriters Need to Hear this. And then Phil and I were talking and we kind of wanted to open up the conversations a little bit so it's not just about screenwriting and so it's more about, I was really getting to talking about people doing all sorts of creative things. I just think it's inspiring. We'll still talk about screenwriting of course, but I wanted to open up the conversation to more people who are doing things that hopefully inspire all of us to just live more creative lives. And Phil don't get upset. Phil is still here, still is not going away. He's very much involved in all this, but the title of course of the new show is What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? And will be answering that question. What the hell am I talking about? Go ahead.Phil Hudson:I think the focus in our conversations were really about creativity because you're a bit more than just a screener. When we started this, it was with a specific purpose. We should also point out this is episode 1 0 4, which is two years of doing podcast,Michael Jamin:So it wasPhil Hudson:A good time to take a step back. Reassess. Things have shifted a lot in the industry. Things have shifted a lot for you personally. What you've done over the last few years is pretty phenomenal in terms of growing a following, becoming a bit of a celebrity, becoming a bit of an expert in a lot of news, which we'll talk about. So yeah, it's just a shift to I think, speaking a little bit more to who Michael Jamin is beyond just being a writer and a showrunner, but being a true creative.Michael Jamin:And I should mention, so Phil speaks with authority because he runs a digital marketing agency called Rook, SS e o. So this is, he knows what he's talking, he knows the space Well, but without further ado, I guess this episode we were just going to talk a little bit more about how far the changes we've made, what we've seen in the past two years and hopefully maybe what we're moving towards.Phil Hudson:Yeah, I thought it would be fitting, Michael, just to kind of talk about some statistics around what the success of the podcast, the success of your work as doing your own personal marketing. And I want to remind everybody that the whole point of this was so that you could market your book. So you're taking and eating your own advice, and I think it's very important for people to know, if I think of Michael Jainism, what are some of the things, your catchphrases and the things you say? Some of those are don't wait, put it out there. Put yourself out there. Right.Michael Jamin:Stop asking for permission is what I say.Phil Hudson:Stop asking for permission.Michael Jamin:Yeah,Phil Hudson:There are a bunch of those that could be really good slogans for hats, whichMichael Jamin:YouPhil Hudson:ShouldMichael Jamin:Consider. A lot of this really, and I guess maybe it's fitting that just that I am the first interview of what the new brand is because a lot of this is about reinventing yourself. This whole journey that I've been is about reinventing myself. I was a sitcom writer. That's what I was until I started going online and making a podcast and posting every day and now I'm something else.Phil Hudson:Yeah, it's definitely morphed. So let's talk a bit about that. Right. So we're 104 episodes into the podcast. That's big. I think the statistic I saw a week ago is that the average podcast has six episodes, which meansMichael Jamin:Most people It's a lot of work. Yeah,Phil Hudson:It is. It's a lot of money too. I don't think people recognize that you're investing in editors, you'veMichael Jamin:GotPhil Hudson:People doing graphic design. There's a lot of it. There's the hosting of the site. I mean, every time you do a webinar, a site crashes and I have to freak outMichael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Run in and make sure we're back up. And yeah, it's a whole thing. So there's a lot that goes into this, but it's 104 episodes on lots of different topics, all centered around creativity, largely around Hollywood and screenwriting. But I personally, as I've gone through and produced and helped edit some of the episodes, it's very clear to me that you get a lot of joy from having these creative conversations.Michael Jamin:Yeah. That's what interests me the most. Yeah, andPhil Hudson:It's not so much about like, Hey, you're a screenwriter. It's like, hey, you are a creative personMichael Jamin:Who'sPhil Hudson:Putting themselves out there and trying to make something happen,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Your audience speaks to this as well. So in the digital marketing space, when we think about this, we think about an avatar and an avatar or a persona. It's your ideal customer. It's the person you're going after. And anytime you're doing marketing, it's a mistake. Or if it's folly, to not do that, you want to understand who you're targeting. And it was very clear two years ago, well, I'm a writer, I'm a TV writer. Let's talk about what I know, which is screenwriting to people who are screenwriters. And I pointed out you should do that because there's a lot of BSS out there.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:What is your take on that two years into this? What is your take on BSS advice and advice in general? Maybe through the lens of the questions you get asked,Michael Jamin:What is my take on it? I feel like you're prompting me to say something. What are you getting at Fell? I don'tPhil Hudson:Know. I'm not trying to lead the witness. I just want to know what is your take on the marketplace for screenwriters having been immersed on the public, but then you're getting all these questions from people. You did a bunch of live q and as for a year, just talking to people and your following, and there's a series of 10 or 15 questions everybody's asking,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:It's all pointed towards sell your stuff. You know what those are. So I'm just wondering for you as a showrunner who kind of stepped into the world of what's being taught by the gurus andMichael Jamin:By thePhil Hudson:Experts, what are you seeing in the marketplace for screenwriters?Michael Jamin:One thing I said during the last webinar we did, we do free webinar every three weeks, and I said something that I think a lot of people were astounded by. I said, screenwriting is simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. And I think a lot of people are trying to sell you the complicated version so that you buy more from I'm the only one who can explain it to you and therefore you need me. And I don't know in the writer's room, that's just not how we approach writing simple. I also think there's a lot of bad advice out there, I think. So just be careful. Be careful who you're taking advice from. I don't know, it's a little heartbreaking. Someone posted today, actually, I did a post and someone left a comment saying, everything this guy says me is true because he did coverage in a coverage service. HePhil Hudson:Goes, yeah,Michael Jamin:People use pay me for coverage. I didn't know anything and I'm telling people what to do. This is a gig this guy picked up. It didn't seem like a lot of people I know, not a lot of people, but I've heard stories of people who've done coverage for a temp job for a month or two and then left because they left feeling a little bit gross about themselves. Why are you paying me? I don't know what I'm talking about. And so they left.Phil Hudson:Okay, so this is the world that, so I guess I might've been leading the witness a little bit because my point is, this is the world I understood because prior to meeting you and having the stars align, and we met years ago, and without me knowing who you are, and everybody knows the story by now of how we know each other and became friends, I was very much in that world and I was looking around trying to find that type of feedback and information, and you really shined the light on this for me. That man, there's a lot of people out here pretending like they know what they're talking about.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:I think you've done a valuable service in these first 100 and 304 episodes of peeling back the curtain, explaining how the process works, educating people. So I just wanted to reiterate, there's a lot of value in what you've done, and that doesn't mean that you're not going to continue to provide value to your listeners who are screenwriters. I think you're just shifting into really none of it all, which is be a creative and do creative things because there's value in the act, not because you're trying to sell a pilot.Michael Jamin:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. I said something else that people kind of resonated with. Maybe it's worth repeating, and I'll probably say again in my webinars, I say do more of them, but I interviewed, I directed Brian Cranston many years ago on a show called Glen Martin. He was a guest star. It was an animated show, and I directed, it was silly. He played a fun role and was then afterwards I thanked him. We paid him probably 800 bucks. He wasn't doing it for the money. And I thanked him that was scale. And he said, oh, no, no, thank you. And I'm like, thank me. Whatcha talking about you're Brian Cranson. At the time he was doing breaking bed, and he said, it's just nice to have a pallet cleanser. As great as Breaking Bad was in probably my favorite show of all time.It was so dark that he was living with these negative emotions, anger, fear, jealousy, rage, all that stuff to be in the character. And when you are in that, your mind doesn't know a difference When you're playing this character 12, 14 hours a day in film and you're acting angry and vengeful and all that, whatever those emotions he had to play, your brain doesn't know the difference that whole day. You've been angry and vengeful, and then when you go home, how do you get it out of you? I mean, how do you just experienced all that all day? And it just really made me think about what it's like to be an actor to actually live in that. So he was thanking me because the script that we did was so light and fun. He was like, oh, it's like a, it was fun. It was fun.Palette, cleanser, which he needed. And then it just got me thinking a lot about just creativity as a whole. And then when people write, when they write their scripts, novels, whatever it is, regardless of whether you sell it or not, you are enjoying that burst of creativity and you're playing out all the characters in your head and your mind doesn't know the difference between you pretending to jump out of a plane and you writing about jumping out of a plane. You're trying to get it all on paper. You're really trying to live it in your heart. And so that I feel Carries with you when you write, regardless of whether you sell it something is a bonus, great, you got money for it. But if you don't sell it, you still get that. You still get that rush, that bonus. And so there's no reason not to write, don't think of it as the pot of gold is in the journey. It's not at the end of the rainbow.Phil Hudson:Yeah. Let's talk about some of the statistics of the podcast, and I love that. I want to circle back on that topic of the journey, the joys in the journey, not the destination, which I'm sure I'm slaughtering that saying just some things, right? So 104 episodes of the podcast, over 200,000 downloads of the podcast, people from I don't know how many continents, but just basing it off of the last webinar we did this last Saturday. I counted probably 13 countries on about four continents, right? That's a trip. Italy, you've got Europe, you've got people in Asia, Australia, south America, you got Central America, you've got America, you'veMichael Jamin:GotPhil Hudson:Canada. I mean, you've got people, it's a global reach at this point, and you're kind of that figurehead to put that out.Michael Jamin:There's so strange.Phil Hudson:Yeah. So hundreds of thousands of downloads on the podcast, which is incredible and that may not seem like a lot, but for the industry and for your niche,Michael Jamin:ThisPhil Hudson:Is really good. These are great numbers for that. We've pulled some stats, and you might know this a little bit better. At one point you were in the top three podcasts on screenwriting, is that right?Michael Jamin:Yeah, I was bouncing around andPhil Hudson:We fluctuated between 5, 6, 7, 10. Anybody who wants to help support go leave a review, a written review on iTunes, that does help a ton. But yeah, so major reach, major opportunity. When you started this, I wanted to ask, do you remember how many Instagram followers you had when we sat down in your garage and I talked about here's what you need to do to be able to grow your following and do this. DoMichael Jamin:You remember how many? I don't remember.Phil Hudson:No, because it wasn't something you're paying attention to. I didn't know. But how many Instagram followers do you have now? It was less, would you say less than a thousand? Probably.Michael Jamin:Probably close to 160,000 now, I think. Yeah,Phil Hudson:Yeah, 160,000.Michael Jamin:HowPhil Hudson:Many days have you missed posting on socialMichael Jamin:Media? Since we started this two yearsPhil Hudson:Ago,Michael Jamin:I promised myself that I was going to post every day. So I post, I would say on average six days a week. So sometimes I take a day off.Phil Hudson:So for anybody looking to grow a following, again, Michael's telling you to do this. He's telling you to bring something to the table and you did this and it's brutal. It's not like a 32nd recording.Michael Jamin:IPhil Hudson:Mean, you communicated to me at one point you're spending 20, 30 minutes on this every single day to get one video out because you're doing multiple takesMichael Jamin:And you'rePhil Hudson:Trying to condense it. You're thinking about it outside of that 30 minutes. You're then doing the technical, and I don't post this for you, you do this, you post it, right? Because you want it to feel authentic. So there's work involved. But again, you're eating your own medicine,Michael Jamin:You'rePhil Hudson:Doing what you tell people to do. You're putting yourself out there in two years down the road, you basically nothing to 160,000 followers onMichael Jamin:Instagram. TikTok,Phil Hudson:Let's hear it.Michael Jamin:Well, TikTok is, I think it's something like 444,000. But that's the thing. It's like I made a promise for myself. It wasn't too ambitious. I didn't say I was going to post five times a day. I was like once a day,Phil Hudson:And I think I was advocating for two to four, which is what the experts would tell you to do. And you said, that's not sustainable for me.Michael Jamin:No way.Phil Hudson:Especially for someone who doesn't want to be in the limelight, which is you very much were like, I don't want to be this person. I'm happy being a writer, but you have this project you want, which is your bookMichael Jamin:You want. I also think it waters down a little bit the message if you're constantly, I'd rather do quality than quantity. But yeah, all of it. I want to say Phil, everything that I, all the advice that I give people about becoming a screenwriter or whatever, becoming whatever it is you want to be a creator is either advice that I have done or I am currently doing.Phil Hudson:So there's no hypocrisy here, which is a really key thing, really key takeaway that people can learn from you beyond the followers. Let's talk about that's led to definitely, and we saw this happening beforehand. You'd post a video about why aren't there cats and TV shows? And Yahoo would pick it up, and then all of the riders on Tacoma FD would just give you crap for it. You popped up on their Yahoo page. But beyond that, and with your status and the work you put in, all of a sudden you become a trustworthy expert in your field because you have a following and you're noticed. It's not that your knowledge are on the subject or your capacity as a writer has changed.Michael Jamin:You'rePhil Hudson:The same capable person and now all of a sudden there's a lot of interest in writing and Hollywood, and you're the guy to go to because you have a following and you're known, right? So this is this secondary effect of I want to get my work out there, so I need followers so that I can have an audience to engage with and potentially prove to people that there's a demand for what I have to put out. And that turned into being covered on Deadline. The Hollywood Reporter, the New York Times variety, and you're in deadline like 17 times, by the way.Michael Jamin:Yeah,Phil Hudson:Right.Michael Jamin:You'rePhil Hudson:In some local newspapers, Newburyport News, you were with the A R PMichael Jamin:CPhil Hudson:Tv. Yeah, the seasoned writers of the world, Portland TV had you on for three segments on one of their shows.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:I think that started a little bit before Good Day Sacramento, multiple times in Yahoo N, our c nl, which is New Zealand, is that right? Nls New Zealand, I think. Yeah. Or the Netherlands. Yeah, Scripps News, the Guardian Newsweek, the Washington Posts News Junkie, right. Newsweek a couple times. And this last weekend you were on C N N.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it's nuts. They just reach out to me, I'm like, sure, I'll do it. Would not have predicted any of this was going to happen two years ago. No.Phil Hudson:So you're not doing this for the fame, you're not doing any of this because you feel like you're going to get something out of it from your writing career. You're doing it because your publisher says, Hey, we don't care how many emails you have on your wife's business list or anything like that, or how many people are interested in your writing?Michael Jamin:WhichPhil Hudson:By the way, prior to even four years ago, 10,000 emails was enough to get a book deal. And now, I mean, I've seen that number of times from people now, it's like, yeah, you need followers putting you on the spot here. So I apologize, but I recall you telling me that you had specific feedback from some of these agents, like, man, Michael Jamin can write, I want to be his friend. Do you remember some of that? Do you want to talk a little bit about what some of those rejection letters were? Oh,Michael Jamin:Yeah. I don't know if I have in front of me, but basically it was, oh, actually I do. ThisPhil Hudson:Is not planned, by the way. Michael didn't know I was going to bring any of this up. The whole premise here is I was going to interview Michael and talk about this stuff.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I got letters from when I was first putting my book out there from publishers. Oh, we love this book. The guy doesn't have a following. They wrote to my agent, do you have anybody who writes like this? Who does have a following? I mean, it was that crazy. They said, platform drives acquisition. I said, what does that mean? You need to have a following. I said, well, what about the strength of the writing? Everyone loved the writing. What about the strength of the writing? Oh, no, no, no. It's about what can we sell? I was like, damn. And that really was a stab in the heart,Phil Hudson:And I think for the average creative branching out with just writers, but the average creative one, rejection, litter, and it's like, well, I guess that's not in it. I guess mom was right. I guess dad was right. I guess Billy's dad was, right. It's hard to be a writer. I should give up. And you hear about these people who submit over and over and over again until they finally break through.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:You took that and said, I don't want to do this thing. I don't want to be a public figure, but I have this creative work that I know people need to read. And it's a personal work that you did on your own. No one paid you to do it. You wrote forMichael Jamin:Free.Phil Hudson:And then IMichael Jamin:Remember, which turn, go ahead. Go ahead.Phil Hudson:I was going to say, then I remember I get a text from you and you're like, Phil, any chance you can come over, I want to talk to you about some marketing stuff. I come over, come to your garage. I break your chair. Let's see thatMichael Jamin:It had already broken. It's already broken, but okay,Phil Hudson:Had to replace a chair. And he asked me, what do I need to do? And I just laid out everything I knew, and then we started putting the wheels into motion. That was roughly 25 months ago,Michael Jamin:CouplePhil Hudson:Months ago.Michael Jamin:And it's one of those things like, I didn't want to do it so tough. How badly do you want it? How badly do you want it? And there can be a downside to having whatever you want to call this level of fame. It's internet famous, not famous, but you are putting yourself out there for haters, for trolls, for wackos, all sorts of weirdos. I mean, you wouldn't believe how, I mean, do I have to tell you? There are people on the internet are crazy. So there was that, but I was like, well, this is what it takes now. So it actually made me matter. When the publishers told me this, I was furious. How dare you tell me what I can't do? You don't get to tell me what I can't do. Only I get to do that. And so that just lit a fire under my ass. And then when IPhil Hudson:Read this book,Michael Jamin:Oh my God, it actually changed me. It's kind of a weird,Phil Hudson:I don't really want to plug the bookMichael Jamin:Very, you can tellPhil Hudson:Me I'mMichael Jamin:InterestedPhil Hudson:In this, but you can tell me. I'llMichael Jamin:Tell you. It was a very new agey book. And so a lot of the advice was, some of the advice I thought was really good, and some of it was like, I don't know. I think you, you're going out on a limb with this one. But it was one of those things, you take what you want and you leave the rest. And what convinced me was this one passage where he said, you've already gotten what you wanted. It just hasn't happened yet. And I was like, that's it. That's it. I already have it. It just hasn't happened yet. And then I was like, alright, what do I need to do to make it happen?Phil Hudson:That's it. Yeah. You remember you reading me that exact quote several times throughout this whole process? Yeah. IMichael Jamin:Love that quote. I always tell people on my podcast, whatever here, or I say it on the webinar, I was like, this is what you need to do. If you're willing to do it, then you need a skill. We don't know your level of skill and then you need a little bit of luck, of course. But here's what you can do to increase your odds. Are you willing to do it? And most people aren't so fine.Phil Hudson:Well, that's my point about the podcast, right? The average podcast is six episodes,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:It's because the consistency, the lack of immediate gratification, the, oh, I only got three people to listen to my sixth episode and I put a thousand dollars to get four episodesMichael Jamin:Made, orPhil Hudson:Whatever it is, that's enough to turn people off. But this is kind of your whole point is, okay, move on. And there's nothing wrong with learning that you're not fit for something. There's something wrong with, there's nothing wrong with saying, Hey, I understand that something I want to do. Maybe doing it the Hollywood way is not the right way for me.Michael Jamin:SoPhil Hudson:Instead, I'm going to go back to just doing it on my own and I'm going to make short films and I'm going to support my local film community. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with recognizing, Hey, I've got family obligations, so I'm not going to be able to move to New York and try to get my art in a gallery. So I'll just paint on the weekends and I'll just take that hour to myself every day to just put in the work on my craft. And you never know what can come from that. But the point is, it's about sticking with what it is. And that's, I think your message that I've heard. I don't know that I want to say that it's evolved. I don't know it's ever evolved. I think it's always been your message, which is if you want to make it happen, you got to make it happen. But the act of doing is enough, right?Michael Jamin:As youPhil Hudson:Said, the goal, the pot of gold, that the rainbow is not the pot of gold.Michael Jamin:It's thePhil Hudson:Experiences along the way, finding the pot of gold that are the pot of gold.Michael Jamin:But also, it's like when you put energy into something legit energy, not like thinking or dreaming, but when you actually do the work, things have a way of manifesting like, oh, this opportunities have a way of appearing because you've put work into it. Like these various press opportunities that I've done and other things that have sprung out because of that. It's like that's just from doing the energy of posting on social media and just sharing as much knowledge as I canPhil Hudson:With zero expectation of getting back. You're planting seeds that hopefully will produce fruit when your book is available and people can buy it on Audible and buy a paperback or a hardcover. And at this point too, so still, you've made the decision not to go with a traditional publisher, even though at this point you have hundreds of thousands of followers.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my content, and I know you do because you're listening to me, I will email it to you for free. Just join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos of the week. These are for writers, actors, creative types, people like you can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you, and the price is free. You got no excuse to join. Go to michaeljamin.com and now back to what the hell is Michael Jamin talking about?Phil Hudson:When you'd ask people, how many followers do I need? They couldn't tell you, tell you. They just knew you needed followers, but they didn't know what the number was.Michael Jamin:And then I got resentful, okay, now that I have these followers, why am I cutting you in? Tell me exactly why I'm cutting you in. What exactly do you do? Nothing. They get me in Barnes and Noble, that's it. But people don't buy books at Barnes and Noble. They buy it online. Why am I cutting you in? It made me mad. It made me legit in the beginning. I was like, I need you. And I was like, I don't need you. What do I need you for?Phil Hudson:How freeing is that feeling?Michael Jamin:It's wonderful. I just got my copy back from I, my copy editor, read the whole thing and whatever, looking for typos and stuff like that. And he loved it. This is a professional. He's like, how do I share? I want to give this to my friends. I was like, oh, thank you. But one of it's like, why am I cutting? It's just like this is the year, it's 2023. It's like, you don't need to ask for permission from these people. The publishing is, the side of the business is very similar to Hollywood in the sense that what do we need these people for? You don't need Hollywood if you want to do, you don't. You just don't. You can do it yourself.Phil Hudson:On that note, I went to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu today, and it was a smaller class, middle of the day. There were literally two other people besides me. They're both instructors. It was paying for a private, which was awesome. And in some downtime, I was talking to one of the guys, he's like, yeah, I quit doing Juujitsu for five years. And I was like, oh, why'd you stop? And he's like, well, a couple of years ago, I lost everything I was doing, worked in, I'm an actor and I worked in the industry. And then that started a conversation, and then he started telling me about all the stuff he's doing now. And he's like, we just decided to do it ourselves. We're making short films. We're putting it out there. We're winning tons of awards on this festival circuits. And he's been in Netflix shows, he's been in things. He has an I M D V page, so he's not just some guy. He has talent and skill, and he's even going out and put it in. And I was like, dude, good for you.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But when you look at the people who break, the people who are break in today, they're all doing what I'm doing. They're people, for the most part, they're not begging for work. They're making work for themselves, and they're making a name for themselves. And so they're building equity in their own name as opposed to knocking on doors and begging.Phil Hudson:Yeah, I, we've touched on this in a past podcast, but I've heard an agent refer to it as Plus writer plus. What is the plus you're bringing to the table? So maybe it's a following, maybe it's ip. Maybe you wrote a book that's a Amazon bestseller. Maybe it's you worked at the Onion and you're coming in with some clout because you had that experience, right? Maybe you were brought on the Harvard Lampoon, whatever it is, there's a plus and a following is a plus, but that's the value add. It's not enough. And you've told me this before, and I've quoted it often, and I think about it when I write, and this was, man, this was like 7, 6, 7 years ago.Michael Jamin:YouPhil Hudson:Read something I wrote in film school, and it was a speck of a Mr. Robot. And you said, Phil, it's obvious you're a competent writer, and this is really good. But that's the problem. It's not great. And so it's not enough to be good. You have to be great, but you also need something else. And you have to be willing to put that out there and get that work done. To me, I've been very hesitant to grow following because of the public nature of that and some of those things. And you tell me some of the things you have to deal with in your dms and people saying things, anti-Semitic things, all kinds. It's crazy, horrible things.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:You still stick it out and you do it. But yeah, the plus for me might be my skillset and technology. It might be my ability to run social media pro campaigns to the point where searchlights and this formerly Fox Searchlight, but searchlights people when they meet me are like, man, I need to fill in every project we have. And that's just the hustle and the grind. And you all have that. You listening to this have,Michael Jamin:That's exactly right. And Phil, this is what I was going to say as well, is everyone listening to this? Take inventory of what you have. For you, Phil, it's your vast knowledge of digital marketing, but for other people, they have other skills. So take advantage of what you have and then incorporate that towards building your brand or whoever youPhil Hudson:Are. Yeah, we might have talked, go ahead.Michael Jamin:Well, if you're a truck driver and you're like, what do I got? I drive a long distance truck, dude, you got a lot. Because you have, I dunno, whatever, 10 hours on the road where you're with nothing but your thoughts, turn off the radio. Not a lot of jobs like that where you can actually think and do your job at the same time. Think about something else. And so, yeah, you could write your screenplay, take notes into a recorder, and then when you stop the car later or the truck later, type it up a little bit and make notes. But that's a huge asset you have, which is you have time. You actually have time where you can think and concentrate on something while you do your job. That's a hugePhil Hudson:Asset. It's a blue sky time. Blue sky time is hard. It's the space and the stillness that is hard to generate in a chaotic life with family and obligations and work. So if you can find it, and reiterating one of the most powerful notes you've given me, which is, do you listen to audio books or podcasts in the car? And I said, yeah. And you said, don't,Michael Jamin:Don't, don't listen to me either. I turned it off your story. ThinkPhil Hudson:About your, yeah, write yourMichael Jamin:Story. WhatPhil Hudson:Is the problem? I'm trying to solve a huge breakthrough for me in my ability to spend time. I was so busy packing my day with so many obligations,Michael Jamin:But then I wasPhil Hudson:Spending hours in LA traffic doing runs for the show,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:It's like, oh, here's the space.Michael Jamin:So it'sPhil Hudson:A great note, but everyone has that note. And going back to something you said earlier, luck is not, you talked about everyone needs a little bit of luck, but that definition, and I think I shared this in episode three, luck is where opportunity meets preparation.Michael Jamin:Yeah, yeah'sPhil Hudson:The preparation. It's the time spent. It's the other adage, when's the best time to grow a tree 20 years ago,Michael Jamin:When'sPhil Hudson:The second best time? Right now,Michael Jamin:YouPhil Hudson:Don't have a tree, so get out and build a tree. Grow your tree, right?Michael Jamin:Yeah.Phil Hudson:So yeah, man, kudos to you for putting in the work and the effort. And I'm close enough as your friend, I've been able to see this and see your growth and your push to be able to do this. And I'll also say that even as someone that I considered to be competent, functional adults who's very successful, I've noticed your resilience increased quite a bit overMichael Jamin:My resilience.Phil Hudson:And that's not saying that you were some pushover or anything. I'm not suggesting that in the slightest, but I've just noticed that your ability to just take the bumps and the bruises of all of the BSS you're dealing with, it's just made you, I think, a little more focused and clear on what you want out of it. And that's why you have this reaction, this is my interpretation to me, why you're having this reaction to the publishers now. It's like, why am I giving you any of this? You didn't fight the fight. I fought the fight. I've been here. I've been in here day in and day out, so screw you. And that's a level of resiliency and confidence. I think that I'm not saying you didn't have that, justMichael Jamin:It took a lot for me to get there. It changes things. It took a lot for me to get there, but it was like maybe on the second book, maybe I'll do with them or not, I don't know. But I also know they haven't earned my book. And I've also heard too many stories from friends of mine who have had books traditionally published where the marketing department drops the ball and they promise one thing and then they're awol, and then that's it. Because at that point, you don't have the margin to do any more marketing on your own, so it's dead. And so it was never about the money for me, but I became a little angry as I was building this up. I was like, well, why am I cutting you in? It doesn't make sense to me. What do you bring to the table? Nothing other than Barnes and Noble, which I don't really care about. It's like, okay, sure. If it was 1982, I might worry about that. Yeah.Phil Hudson:This is, I think clicking for me. You're familiar with David Goggins, the former Navy Seal?Michael Jamin:I don't think so.Phil Hudson:He wrote a book called You Can't Hurt Me.Michael Jamin:And hePhil Hudson:Talks about how he was just abused as a kid by his father.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Then what that taught him to do was to be able to just separate his pain. And it created a lot of mental toughness to the point that he was in the us. He was in the Air Force, tried out for Air Force Special Operations. He became a Navy Seal. He went through three hell weeks because he kept getting rolled back for injuries. He had a point where he had fractured legs and he would duct tape them so that they weren't hurt when he was doing runs. I mean, he ran a hundred miler in one day with no preparation to the point that his kidneys were failing. And he just does ultra marathons nonstop. He's just kind of this figure. He's become a bit of a meme with the same younger people, but I've known about him for a few years, and he talks about his book and he's like, I got offered $300,000 from a publisher from my book,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:I just thought, you haven't been through what I've been through. It is basically what you're saying. It's like, you haven't earned this the way I have. Is my life worth $300,000? And he said, no. So he took all of his savings, which was about 300,000, and he self-published his own book, New York Times bestseller. Did the hardbacks, did the whole thing.Michael Jamin:Why didn't it take him 300,000 to make a book? It shouldn't have taken fraction of that.Phil Hudson:He did all of the publishing himself. So he didn't publish through a self-publisher like Amazon. He didn't even want to partner with Amazon, so he became his own publisher.Michael Jamin:SoPhil Hudson:He literally printed up hundreds of thousands of copies, and then he leveraged all of his relationships with the Rogans and all these people with these platforms because of the life and the experience that he had, and multiple time bestsellers, millions of copies, sold books,Michael Jamin:TwoPhil Hudson:Books, and he's a millionaire because of that effort. So it's that same resilience mindset I think that I'm hearing from you. And that's probably why I made that connectionMichael Jamin:Just like, screw people. I'll do it myself. I don't need you. That's how I feel. Whatever, I'll do it myself. Yeah.Phil Hudson:That's awesome. Before we talk about the new podcast, I just wanted to see, are there any takeaways for you over the last year? Are there anything that really stood out moments or conversations we've had with you, with other people, us on the podcast or with other students in your course?Michael Jamin:If you listen to some of those other episodes where I'm interviewing people, you'll hear various versions of the same story that I tell their own, which is kind of like, screw it. I'll just do it my own. It is just people. The reason why people are, I interview, I guess, successful people, and the reason why they're successful is because they haven't quit yet. That's it. They just didn't get around to quitting. And so I think that's what it is. Until you quit, you're just a success. That hasn't happened yet. It just hasn't happened yet,Phil Hudson:Which is why you don't quit.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Phil Hudson:Anything else stand out to you?Michael Jamin:I don't know. Can you think of something?Phil Hudson:The one lingering thought that I have is I think that people, you set a really good example for people on your social media about how to handle naysayersMichael Jamin:BecausePhil Hudson:You get a lot of negativity, and you talked about this, you could go after them. You're a professional comedyMichael Jamin:Writer. Yeah.Phil Hudson:They don't stand a chance. And I have witnessed just the witty quickness, the decimation of a soul in a writer's room, all in love,Michael Jamin:ButPhil Hudson:The capability of a professional comedy writer to just tear someone down. And it's almost like with great power comes great responsibility. ThatMichael Jamin:ClichePhil Hudson:From Spider-Man, it's like you opt to take the high road, which is,Michael Jamin:And I'm always torn by that. Sometimes I'm like, I can easily take you down. And sometimes I do. If it's warranted, if they come out with me a certain amount of energy, then I can match the energy. But I'm torn. I also feel like, well, it's not enough that I, on one hand, I tell people I'm a comedy writer, but unless I show it every once in a while, people are, how are they going to believe me?Phil Hudson:And soMichael Jamin:It's a line that I dance. I dance, it is like I don't want to be mean, but I also,Phil Hudson:It's not negative energy. It's not done with maliciousness. It's done playfully. But I think it just, you stand up for yourself when it's appropriate.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Again, that speaks to some of that resiliency that again, you could decimate 'em,Michael Jamin:You retrain yourself. I'm totally pulling punches, believe me when I'm pulling, because sometimes I've got a bunch of clips I haven't posted yet. I write them. I'll spend a half hour on 'em, and then I'll sit on it. I don't feel, and then I look at the next day, I go, oh, I can't put that on. It's funny, but it's just too mean. That'sPhil Hudson:The adage of when you're at work and you want to send that email, don't sendMichael Jamin:It.Phil Hudson:Write it out. Don'tMichael Jamin:Send it. GetPhil Hudson:It out of your system. Move on.Michael Jamin:Right. I took a guy apart the other day, I just haven't shared it, so screw it. That guy,Phil Hudson:You don't even share those with me.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But also I also do, and I made a post about this. It was like, how do I want to show up every day? How do I want to be seen? And I don't want be the mean guy. I don't want to be a bully. So I'm allowed to think my negative thoughts. I don't always have to share them.Phil Hudson:Yeah, yeah. No, and that's a valuable lesson for people in a world where, as I've often said, you remove the opportunity to get punched in the face for anything you say or do, and all of a sudden people start speaking up a little bit more than they probably should. And I'm not advocating for violence,Michael Jamin:ButPhil Hudson:Even a verbal punch to the face can often be enough. AndMichael Jamin:It'sPhil Hudson:Pretty easy in our society to just sit behind your keyboardMichael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Zero consequences for what you say and do. I call this out? I call this out in our webinars while you're talking, Cynthia, your wife is doing a great job of just getting questions, and I'm just kind of checking the chat to see what people are talking about. And man, there's some trolls rolling into your webinar too.Michael Jamin:Thank you. I never see them. Do you block 'em? What do you do?Phil Hudson:No, no. People take care. They take care of it. And we can talk about another experience we had where someone went after me on a podcast too, nepotism, do you remember that? Called me out for nepotismMichael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:All that.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Yeah, your listeners had my back and they went after 'em. And it is just a very stark difference between the community you've cultivated of people who are just respectful, sincere creatives looking to break in and chase their dreams and all the people who say they want to do it and are not putting in theMichael Jamin:Work and the nepotism on your part, to be clear, I suppose that was when you were in and out of foster care as a child. Is that when you experienced all the nepotism?Phil Hudson:Yeah, it might've been that. It might've been when I was in the group homes. It could have been when I lived in my aunt and uncle's house and I couldn't do sports because I had to workMichael Jamin:EffectivelyPhil Hudson:Full-time in high school. Could have been any of those times. Could have beenMichael Jamin:Of those times. Yeah.Phil Hudson:But your point to that was you knew one person tangentially through some girl when you moved here, there wasn't even an nepotism for you. And I knew you, and yeah, I've been blessed to have that opportunity, but we've seen enough people come and go, you have to earn it. Right?Michael Jamin:It's so funny when I tell that story. When I moved to Hollywood, I knew no one in Hollywood, but a girl I was friendly with in high school, she was a year younger than me. I found out that her brother was living in Hollywood and was trying to do what I did, which is bright sitcom writer. And so I called himPhil Hudson:Up, and thenMichael Jamin:We wound up becoming roommates. But then when I tell that story, people go, oh, so you did know someone. It was like, I knew some guy.Phil Hudson:He wasMichael Jamin:Just as unsuccessfulPhil Hudson:AsMichael Jamin:Me, and wePhil Hudson:BecameMichael Jamin:Roommates. He was just a couple years older than me. So I guess that's how I knew someone.Phil Hudson:But that highlights this thing. I was going to say, and it's just a quote that stuck with me for years. I think it comes from Jim Rowan, which is there's two ways to have the tallest building. One is to build the tallest building,Michael Jamin:WhichPhil Hudson:You have done the other ways to tear everyone else's building down.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:So if you're afraid to pursue your craft, sometimes tearing everyone else down is a bit easier than facing the empty page or the blank canvas. It'sMichael Jamin:A lot easier. It's a lot easier.Phil Hudson:And the high road, whichMichael Jamin:You'vePhil Hudson:Been an example forMichael Jamin:AnPhil Hudson:Exemplar, is just put your head down, do the work, provide value,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Then the benefits will come eventually.Michael Jamin:And I really hope this episode doesn't seem like we're just patting me on the back. I hope it serves be to get you guys to do what I'm doing in your own way for whatever you want to do.Phil Hudson:And Michael saying that, because Michael didn't know what I was going to talk about or bring up here, this is me bringing this up because these are the things that I've observed as your friend, as a co-host on the podcast, but also just as someone who's just trying to do the same thing that everybody who listens to your podcast is tryingMichael Jamin:To do,Phil Hudson:Which is break in and chase their dreams.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I'm exactly like you guys. Only, I'm doing it for writing. That's all for publishing,Phil Hudson:Which speaks to the transition to the podcast, which is the title of the podcast. What the hell is Michael? WhatMichael Jamin:The hell is Michael Jamin talking about?Phil Hudson:Yeah. What the hell is Michael Jamin talking about? At this point, you can see the cover has changed, so it's going to be the same feed. You don't need to go resubscribe. None of the old episodes are rebranding. They'll still be live and available the way they were. But it's just a shift into talking about creative things. And I think you got some cool stuff to kind of display. I guess people might've already heard the intro.Michael Jamin:Oh, we could do that. WePhil Hudson:Put on this episode. But you want to talk more about that, the podcast and impetus for the change and why we were here?Michael Jamin:Yeah. Well, there was that. The new music is by my friend Anthony Rizzo, who did all the music. He was the composer on Marin. It wasn't my friend. Then. I just met him on Marin. And then he also did the music for my book, a paper orchestra, which would be dropping hopefully this winter and keep pushing itPhil Hudson:Back. Yeah, we haven't talked about that. You've put in a ton of energy and effort into recording the audio book and making it your live events, which I wanted to point out part of this transition, and you've always talked about how when you're in a writer's room, you end up acting out the parts, like when you're doing Hank on King of the Hill, you do Hank's voice and you kind of mimic him. You're doing Bobby, you do it. So you've always been a performer, but I don't know if you've been a performer in the sense that you are with a paper orchestra whereMichael Jamin:It'sPhil Hudson:A stage show and you're there and you're being vulnerable and emotional, and you're making it a thing, and you're practicing and you're working with talented coaches like your wife, Cynthia, who is a very talentedMichael Jamin:Actress,Phil Hudson:And Jill Sch, who is a legendary actress, and you're investing in all this coaching to put on a presentation or performance for people. And I have not heard audio book, but what I understand is it's going to be very similar experience to come into a live show.Michael Jamin:I think so. And it'll be a little more intimate than a live show in your ear because it's an audio book. I'm much closer to your brain, and I want to talk to morePhil Hudson:CreatorsMichael Jamin:Like this. But what I'm personally inspired by right now, and that maybe it'll change in five years, but I'm inspired by people who tell and perform their own stories. To me, there's something, so you're an actor. You have to be a writer and a performer at the same time, as opposed to doing something like creating something. That's fine. But when you're telling your own story, it's like, man, you're really putting yourself out there. And I think when I see people do it, I'm like, all right, that's interesting. Maybe I'll change in five years. So I mean, standups do that, but they don't do it. They're going for the laugh usually. They're not usually going deeper than that, which is fine that when you go into a comedy club, that's what you expect. So that's kind of what I've been exploring and being motivated by.Phil Hudson:That's another Michael Jainism that stood out to me. I wrote it down when you were talking earlier, go there. You have to be willing to go there. And we talked about people who are not willing to go there. And we've heard people, other writers say, I'm not willing to go there. And you've called it out privately to me, did you hear that person? Did you hear what they said? And you have to be willing to go there. For a long time, I wasn't. And through your help, I've been able to do that. But yeah, you're talking to people who go there.Michael Jamin:Yeah, that's the job. If you don't want the job, find another job. It'sPhil Hudson:Emotional vulnerabilityMichael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:Being willing to put yourself out there and not just on a social media perspective, but truly emotionally vulnerable in your stories and what you've called mining your life for stories and putting that out there.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. To me, that's the exciting stuff. And I didn't invent this, so it's just when I see others do it, I'm like, wow, why I should be doing that too.Phil Hudson:So obviously I'm not necessarily a co-host of this anymore. I'm still helping produce the thing. We're still making sure that that'sMichael Jamin:How hear a lot the technicalPhil Hudson:Side. I'll still be popping in on podcast episode.Michael Jamin:We'll still be talking about screenwriting, I'm sure.Phil Hudson:And I had this cool experience, and I don't think we've talked about this when I was on touring with the broken lizard guys doing their social media, just sitting there talking to them and seeing this rabid fan base of people who just love them from this thing that they created. When they did it, they put themselves out there.Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:It really lit that our tour spirit I had back in 2000 8 0 9, when I was really dedicating myself to screenwriting. And I have actually been working on a feature that I would like to star in and direct and do that whole thing on the indie level. Just now you talking, just an exercise. What aboutMichael Jamin:As a short first, why not doing it as a shortPhil Hudson:Could definitely do that. Yeah. Why?Michael Jamin:ToPhil Hudson:Me, there's a feature in there for sure that I want to write and just get out of me, but definitely worth doing a short, yeah,Michael Jamin:Go watch as we talk about this. Go watch on Vimeo, I think Thunder Road, that scene we talk about, go watch the church, the Churching. That was a feature, but that scene stands on its own. If you just saw that scene, you would've thought, oh, it's a short, I thought it was a short, I thought it was a great short, I didn't realize it was part of a bigger, so do something like that. And then when people see that and they're blown away, you'll say, oh, well, there's more to come. Just I need you to donate $5,000. And then they pay for the rest.Phil Hudson:Yeah. Yeah. That's great advice. Great advice. So yeah. So anyway, this beautiful shift in the tide of creativity and your shift, and that rubs off. What can we expect from the podcast in terms of guests you're interviewing? What does that look like for you?Michael Jamin:I reach out, I got to continue to do more. I'm doing another one tomorrow. I'll be reaching out. These guys really inspired me. So there's a movie that I saw on Netflix many years ago, I dunno, maybe five years ago from these guys called The Minimalists. So I reached out to one of them. He's going to be on the Tomorrow, and they're fascinating. It is.Phil Hudson:Joshua Fields Millburn, andMichael Jamin:He's the one coming on, and he's gracious enough to come on, and I'm sure he's going to think we're going to talk about the message. And the message is very important. The message is how you can live, how you can have more in your life with less how you don't need to buy this, how you'll be happier if you get rid of that, and great message. But he's in for a surprise because we'll talk about that. But I really want to talk about how he created himself, how he, okay, then how did you sell a show on Netflix? Okay, now what is it like to be this person? Because he wasn't, he was just some guy who's middle management before he did this, and now he's the guy who has this message. Even though the message has already been said before by other people, he still put a different spin on it to me. And I find that inspiring, that somebody who invented himself, what does that feel like? What are the insecurities that come with that? What is this new fame ish thing that he has? How does that feel? How does he continue to push himself? I don't know. I'm looking forward to the interview. I'm curious to hear, and I bet you he hasn't spoken about that.Phil Hudson:That's awesome.Michael Jamin:I did an interview, I dunno if it, no, it hasn't aired yet. The guy I follow, a prop master that I follow on TikTok named Scott and Scott Reeder, and he's great.Phil Hudson:Great. I follow him too.Michael Jamin:He's great. He just talks about all the props and how he makes these props, and we spoke a little bit about that, but we were more talking about how he invented himself now. And halfway through the interview, he says to me, this is the best interview anyone's ever done, because I didn't really care about the boring stuff. I want to know how he invented himself. What all of us, I think are trying to do right now. That's part of Before we Die, we, that's, who else can we be before we die?Phil Hudson:Yeah, that's profound, man. I'm excited. I've loved listening to the interviews you've already done on Screenwriters. Need to hear this. I'm looking forward to those.Michael Jamin:It'sPhil Hudson:Good stuff, man. I'm just really pumped for this new stage. And again, I do think it just speaks a little bit more to who you've become because not that you've outgrown yourself as a writer, it's just you've evolved a bit as a person into being a bit more than that. And I hesitate to even say that too, because I know this is who you are. This is who you have been.Michael Jamin:But this is what writers too, I think it's like, all right, what else can we explore here? That's part of the fun. That's the fun part being, being a writer is that you get car, right? You get carte blanche to try new things because maybe I can write about this worst case scenario. I can make a story from it.Phil Hudson:I was about to say, that's advice you've given me multiple times, which is it's a write-off. You can go take aMichael Jamin:Basket weaving class,Phil Hudson:Right? Go take aMichael Jamin:Dance class. Why?Phil Hudson:It's an experience. Go take an acting class. And I remember you did a workshop in Acting for Life and it was a comedy workshop and you were kind enough to invite me to attend that. And I was already studying with Cynthia and Jill at the time there. And yeah, I remember you just putting out that same thing. It's great. You're studying acting, it's going to make you a better writer.Michael Jamin:And you'vePhil Hudson:Given that advice on the podcast too. So it's really fascinating to me. And I'm just kind of realizing this in this moment, man, I thought I was getting all this great free advice that was particular to Phil Hudson and now you're justMichael Jamin:Giving it toPhil Hudson:Everybody, man.Michael Jamin:Everyone. I hope so. I'd like to try to do, we'll see if I can make that happen where I go to, that's something I'm going to try to make happen where I can tour to different cities, put on a show, and then the next day maybe a writing seminar afterwards in that city so I can to help offset some of my costs. And then we could just talk about writing that day. We have a little writing workshop or something, so maybe I'll try to do that.Phil Hudson:God, that's awesome. It's the first I've heard of that. That sounds like a great,Michael Jamin:Yeah, it's just so many things that have to happen before that. I got so much on my plate right now. I can't even think about that. But we were talking about that. Wouldn't that be interesting?Phil Hudson:It's a great idea. Well, I imagine Cynthia will be with you.Michael Jamin:Yeah, yeah,Phil Hudson:Yeah. And that's awesome. Now you're getting someone who's been on Seinfeld and the friends and just allMichael Jamin:ThesePhil Hudson:Great, I mean very talented, very, and I will say not only talented, but very perceptive,Michael Jamin:Right? Oh yeah.Phil Hudson:And I think I've shared this on here too, but there was this moment where I just couldn't get there. I just couldn't get there. And Jill's just saying, what are you feeling? And IMichael Jamin:Was like, I don't know.Phil Hudson:And she turns to the class and she's like, what is everyone? What's he feeling? Everyone's like, he's mad. And I didn't even realize I was mad. And then the next class, I'm struggling in this scene. And then Jill's like, what are you struggling with? What's going on? I was like, I don't know. And then Cynthia's like, is it the intimacy? Is he having trouble with the intimacy of the scene? And I was like, holy shit. Yeah. I think that's what it is. I am not willing to go here. And I had to work through all that stuff. So she's just so perceptive and so kind. You can't even be not mad. She's calling you out because it's done with so much love and compassion. It's a beautiful thing.Michael Jamin:We've had these moments, by the way, when she directs me from my audio book where the outtakes are not pretty, the outtakes are me yelling.Phil Hudson:ButMichael Jamin:It's funny, one of thePhil Hudson:Stories in my bookMichael Jamin:Is called The House on Witherspoon Street where I'm a kid in college. They're all true stories. And it builds to me giving an on-air interview to this woman who's this eccentric woman who had a talk show. She was lovely, but she's larger than life and it's in the book. And then my editor said yesterday, he goes,Phil Hudson:Do youMichael Jamin:Happen to have that interview? And I was like, well, actually, I think I do. And I found the cassette from 30 years ago. And so we'll put it in the bonus section of the book where now you can hear me, you can hear me as a 19 year old or whatever it was. Has that scene unfolded? That's likePhil Hudson:Steve LE's break dancingMichael Jamin:Commercial, but it's stranger than that because you'll know now what I was thinking in my headPhil Hudson:While That's awesome.Michael Jamin:While it was going on. That's aPhil Hudson:Great point.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it's a fun little thing.Phil Hudson:It's cool stuff, man. I love it. I'm pumped. It's a good shift for you. I think it's a good shift for your audience. I think it opens it up a little bit. Hope it's a little bit more accessible to your audience. Your audience is far more than just writers. It'sMichael Jamin:Great. I don't want to just, when it called screenwriters, you hear this. Well, does that mean I don't want to be a screenwriter? Well, okay, but do you want to do anything creative? Yeah, sure I do. I want to write a poem. Okay, good. Now listen, you can, thePhil Hudson:Other thing is how does this apply to novel writing? How does this apply to playwriting? And we have a testimonial video from a guy who does financial writing, and he took your course and he's like, it made my financial writing better.Michael Jamin:He'sPhil Hudson:Able to tell a better story aboutMichael Jamin:Finances in a finance journal. And stories are what gets people hooked. Whatever you want to sell, sell it with a story. People are interested in hearing a story veryPhil Hudson:Often. That's you,Michael Jamin:Right?Phil Hudson:It's you in the room, it's you idea, it's yourMichael Jamin:Acting,Phil Hudson:It's yourMichael Jamin:Art.Phil Hudson:All of that is story.Michael Jamin:By the way, I hope to do some more public speaking. So if anyone has a,Phil Hudson:It works at a corporationMichael Jamin:And you want me to do public speaking, we have a number of talks,Phil Hudson:Keynotes. We can talk about that, Michael. I do a lot of that with some clients.Michael Jamin:Oh really? Oh good. We'll talk about that. KeynotePhil Hudson:Marketing. Yeah. Well, good stuff. Anything you want to add? I mean, we had talked, I think, a little bit about potentially putting the music on. I think everybody's already heard the music on. We've heard some of it. It'sMichael Jamin:Funky. Do youPhil Hudson:Want to play it? It's aMichael Jamin:Funky, let's play some of it. Okay,Phil Hu

Thank you for watching episode 7! Thank you to Mark Lonergan and the team from The Shelbourne Bar in Cork City for sitting down with us to chat, and letting us take over the bar for the day! Follow The Shelbourne on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shelbournebarcork/ Follow us on Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/pourdecisions.pod/ https://www.tiktok.com/@pourdecisions.pod Michael Cowman and Ronan Collins sit down in Ireland's Best Whiskey Bar and introduce us to Cork City, have an interview with Mark Lonergan, and discuss the spirits backed by massive celebrityies like Snoop Dogg's Indoggo and Brian Cranston & Aaron Paul's Dos Hombres. There is also a brand new segment on the show where we explore spirits from around the world called The Atlas of Alcohol, and the first iteration features the unique Italian spirit of Grappa! Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:13 Welcome to Cork City 8:43 Mark Lonergan & The Shelbourne Bar 26:45 Celebrity Spirits 36:59 Free Stayto 47:37 The Atlas of Alcohol - Grappa 48:47 Wrap Up Subscribe to keep up to date with future episodes! Produced by Drink In Digital. Producer: Daniel Buckley. Camera: Agustina Parisi.

Tom and Julie watch clips of Robert Loggia being interviewed about the famous Minute Maid commercial, Eddie Murphy confirming Sammy Davis Jr's Satanism, and steampunk rapper Professor Elemental. Plus Producer Brett pitches Monster Uber and Tom and Julie get the latest updates on Little Lord Watchalong. Also the movie where Brian Cranston hides in the garage and spies on his family, do ducks prefer the bread after it get wet, Abel Ferrara as Rumpelstiltskin, Krispy Kreme donuts, Midnight Train to Georgia, Jonathan Richman in Something About Mary, Frank Sinatra was the biggest snowflake, the Boston Cream Pie Strangler, and much more. CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE *Robert Loggia Talks abt Minute Maid Commercial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5f6ABDdnIM *Eddie Murphy on Sammy Davis Jr's Satanism https://youtu.be/uMHl7yz93ho?t=94 *Steampunk Rapper Professor Elemental https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRTB-FTMdk SUPPORT DOUBLE THREAT ON PATREON Weekly Bonus Episodes, Monthly Livestreams, Video Episodes, and More! https://www.patreon.com/DoubleThreatPod BUY JULIE'S NEW SONG "SILENCE" ON BANDCAMP https://julieklausner.bandcamp.com/track/silence WATCH THE "SILENCE" MUSIC VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9DSQJN_yU WATCH VIDEO CLIPS OF DOUBLE THREAT https://www.youtube.com/@doublethreatpod JOIN THE DOUBLE THREAT FAN GROUPS *Discord https://discord.com/invite/PrcwsbuaJx *Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/doublethreatfriends *Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/doublethreatfriends DOUBLE THREAT MERCH https://www.teepublic.com/stores/double-threat TOTALLY EFFED UP T-SHIRTS https://www.teepublic.com/user/dttfu SEND SUBMISSIONS TO DoubleThreatPod@gmail.com FOLLOW DOUBLE THREAT https://twitter.com/doublethreatpod https://www.instagram.com/doublethreatpod DOUBLE THREAT IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST https://foreverdogpodcasts.com/podcasts/double-threat Theme song by Mike Krol Artwork by Michael Kupperman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is there really a new wrinkle to the Mar A Lago documents case? We'll let you know what they are trying to charge Trump with now. Then, is it acceptable to have some tell a senator how to vote on the floor? Wait until you hear what happened with Diane Feinstein. Also, how are things going with that actors strike? Brian Cranston was in Time square yesterday leading the charge. And some good news for the family of LeBron James as his son has been released from the hospital. We have the latest there and many other stories too! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is there really a new wrinkle to the Mar A Lago documents case? We'll let you know what they are trying to charge Trump with now. Then, is it acceptable to have some tell a senator how to vote on the floor? Wait until you hear what happened with Diane Feinstein. Also, how are things going with that actors strike? Brian Cranston was in Time square yesterday leading the charge. And some good news for the family of LeBron James as his son has been released from the hospital. We have the latest there and many other stories too! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today marks a make or break moment for mega-cap tech stocks with Alphabet and Microsoft reporting after the bell. Adam Parker of Trivariate, Bryn Talkington of Requisite Capital and Malcolm Ethridge of CIC Wealth give their expert takes on the big tech run. Plus, David Herro of Oakmark Funds breaks down what he is calling the most undervalued sectors globally. And, Bob Iger coming under fire amid the Hollywood strikes. Brian Cranston is the latest in a growing chorus of criticism aimed at the Disney CEO… we'll tell you what he said and what it could mean for the stock. 

Bryan Cranston won four Emmy Awards for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series for his portrayal of Walter White in AMC's Breaking Bad. He holds the honor of being the first actor in a cable series, and the second lead actor in the history of the Emmy Awards, to receive three consecutive wins. In 2014 he won a Tony Award for his role as Lyndon Johnson in the bio-play All the Way. In film, Cranston received an Academy Award nomination for his leading role in Trumbo. Among his numerous television and film appearances, he was nominated for a Golden Globe and three Emmys for his portrayal of Hal in FOX's Malcolm in the Middle. He is the author of his memoir, A Life in Parts.

Another evil episode to gum up your brain, this time the PU boys get nerdy and flirty with discussion on Trump Wick faith, Blondie suicide, Netflix CEO executions, Mark Wahlberg Gollum, Obama bomb kid, dynamite armed teachers, Canada forest fires, meatball mode, Times Square billboard guy, secret English people, italian superman, polish apples, Gollum apologists, gameplay that should be removed, Far Cry skill trees, Giancarlo Esposito fan cast, Brian Cranston retirement, Overwatch society, Geoff Keighley best friend award, racist G4, Tommy Tellerico, The Guy Game remake, Kojima Twitter, pig fat dinosaurs, mammal hype, more jar man questions, monkey torture for crypto, discord boys club, bitcoin time heist, beanie baby angel, most expensive Pokémon card, Logan Paul post credits scene, and Einsteinheimer. Um guys, you're gonna want to see this. Check out our monkey merch!: https://my-store-c638a6.creator-spring.com

Brian Cranston shares a crazy story about entering a brothel. 

Brian Cranston, uno de los mejores actores de nuestro tiempo, se ha convertido en un gran embajador del beisbol de las Grandes Ligas, y para promover el juego de su vida, montó un monólogo teatral, en el que retrata el ambiente del estadio, los héroes de su infancia, y las jugadas que lo han marcado como fanático.

Get another inside scoop of what it's like to work in Hollywood as Michael Jamin sits down and talks with Eric Fogel, a DreamWorks animator.Show NotesEric Fogel Website: https://www.eric-fogel.com/Eric Fogel Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_FogelIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0283888/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutomated TranscriptEric Fogel (00:00):You gotta have, you know, there's, there are a couple of key ingredients, right? You, you gotta have the passion, right. For it, for the craft. You have to have the ability mm-hmm. to have, to have the skills. Michael Jamin (00:14):But you didn't have the ability when you started. Right?Eric Fogel (00:18):I had some ability.Michael Jamin (00:19):Some ability. AndEric Fogel (00:20):I kind of, yeah. I mean, a lot of it is you, you have to immerse yourself and you have to just make things. And you have to learn as you make things. You can't, you know, you can watch YouTube videos all day long, but you gotta like, just get in it.Michael Jamin (00:35):You're listening to Screenwriters Need to hear this with Michael Jamin.Michael Jamin (00:43):Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. This is the podcast that it's not just for screenwriters. Cuz I, I have a special guest today. This is my friend and once collaborator Eric Fogel. And he, we were, we were debating like, how do I, how do I introduce him? Cuz he does so much. He's a writer, he's a director, he's an animator. He's now a dreamworks. And Eric Fogel's now gonna tell us is how, how, how all this works. He's gonna explain to me, Eric Fogel, thank you so much for being on the show. Say hi. Hello.Eric Fogel (01:13):Hello. Hello. Hello.Michael Jamin (01:15):You're not an actor though. That's the one thing you, that's the one credit you don't get.Eric Fogel (01:19):I do a little voice acting.Michael Jamin (01:20):Do you do, doEric Fogel (01:21):You know I've done, yeah, I, yeah, I I actually got my SAG card. Yeah.Michael Jamin (01:25):ReallyEric Fogel (01:27):Little, little.Michael Jamin (01:28):So, so for everyone's listening, so Eric and I worked together years ago on a show called Glen Martin dds, which he cr co-created. And on that show, he was the he was one of the, he directed with me, directed the animation. He was in charge of all the designs, all the character designs. And then he had the misfortune of having to fly back and forth from Los Angeles to Toronto, like every week to oversee the animation focal. How did that, how, how did that all come about? How did, how did you sell that show? How did it come about that show?Eric Fogel (02:01):Man so yeah, I think I was, I was in town. I was, you know, I was living in New York at the time, and so I, I was I, I did a trip out here to, to LA to do like, around the meetings. And I was, I was in my I was up in my manager's office and the, the owner of the company, Gotham sh just kind of walked by and she goes, oh, yeah, he should meet Scoop,Michael Jamin (02:31):Right?Eric Fogel (02:31):And I'm like, what the fuck is a scoop? Can I say ? Is that all right?Michael Jamin (02:37):We all, we're all thinking of it.Eric Fogel (02:38):Yeah. Yeah. What's, what's a Scoop scoop?Eric Fogel (02:43):That was my, so that was my introduction. So yeah, we, we set up a meeting, I met with Scoop in LA on that same trip, I think it was my last meeting. And they had a scriptMichael Jamin (02:55):Just a, so Scoop was a, the nickname of one of the executive producers, or Michael Eisner's company.Eric Fogel (02:59):Scoop is a human. Yeah. He was, I guess running development for Michael Eisner's company, which was Tornante. Yeah, right. And they had, they had a script. They had like a version of a pilot that was written by Alex Berger. Right, right. And you know, it was still pretty rough at that time. It needed, needed some love. And, you know, there was no, there were no designs. You know, there was nothing there. But couple weeks later I met, I g I met with Michael Eisner in New York, and we sat down, we started talking about this project, and he had seen some stuff on my reel, and he saw some, some stop motion that I did, you know, I created Celebrity Death Match. So I think he was aware of, of that. But I, I did this other show called Star Val with a studio called Cup of Coffee in Toronto.Michael Jamin (03:51):I didn't realize that was Cuppa, but Wait, hold on. Was that, was, was what Network was surveillance onEric Fogel (03:56):EMichael Jamin (03:57):E. So I wanna, I wanna slow this down. Yeah. I wanna interrupt you for a second. So celebrity Death Match was like a huge hit. I was on MTV for a couple seasons, right? Yeah. And it was a stop motion animation, and you were in charge, and you create, created that with custom and you were in charge of the a It was a big, it was like a big deal for like, I don't know, 10 minutes, but it was .Eric Fogel (04:17):Yeah, no, we, we, we, we ran for Yeah. A couple years and, you know, close to a hundred episodes a lot.Michael Jamin (04:23):So, all right. But then, okay, so back it up and how, cuz you have a very unusual career because you kind of, you've carved a career for yourself that doesn't really, it doesn't even exist really. You know, not many people who do what you've done. Like, how, how did you start when you were a kid? Did you wanna, what did you wanna be?Eric Fogel (04:41):I, I knew I wanted to be in the film business in some way. I think, you know, when I was, you know, I was always drawing like little comic books when I was a kid. And these, these comic books were basically storyboards.Michael Jamin (04:54):Right. Eric is really good, talented artist. So that, I should mention that Illustra Illustrate. I don't know what you would call yourself. You're good though. Go on. You're okay.Eric Fogel (05:03):But by the time I was like, you know, in, in high school, I, I sort of learned that there was like, you could actually go to school to learn how to make films. Yeah. You know, like, there was such a thing. And, and I became aware of, you know, Y u and that, that sort of became my, you know, the thing that was driving me. I even before that, I started taking some film while I was still in high school. I took a couple film classes at, at school of Visual Arts, just taking college level classes there while, you know, still still a kid in high school and starting to like, figure out how to make, make films and, you know, put stuff together. And then I gotMichael Jamin (05:42):Live, it wasn't stop motion, it wasn't animation, it was just film.Eric Fogel (05:45):It was live action. I was still, I was also experimenting, you know, I got, I got a super eight camera, so I was trying, I was trying some stop motion. I was doing like, hand drawn animation. I was just trying everything I want. I was just absorbing everything. Yeah. You know? And yeah. And then got accepted to NYU and inMichael Jamin (06:05):The film program.Eric Fogel (06:06):Film program. Okay. 19. Yeah. Graduated class of 91.Michael Jamin (06:13):91.Eric Fogel (06:13):And, you know, I was pretty prolific there. Like they, I think they only required you to make, to finish like one film. And I ended up making four, finishing four films. Two were live action and two were animated. Right. And one of the animated films was this really violent like a post-apocalyptic thing. It was called The Mutilated. I've heard ofMichael Jamin (06:39):It. Ok.Eric Fogel (06:40):That, yeah, there's actually a,Michael Jamin (06:42):Well, look, you gotta sell. Okay.Eric Fogel (06:44):Yeah. There's a mu later.Michael Jamin (06:46):That's from, and that was from a college?Eric Fogel (06:48):Yeah, this was my college. This was my college film. Mutilate. But the, so this film got got licensed to like a, an animated like a film festivalMichael Jamin (07:02):Called, well, you, wait, you submitted it to a film festival. What doEric Fogel (07:04):They They saw it, they saw it in the Y U Circuit. Okay. Cause premiered there. And then they reached out to me and they said, we wanna a license Mutilators to be, it was a Spike and Mike spike and Mike's Festival of Animation.Michael Jamin (07:19):Right.Eric Fogel (07:20):AndMichael Jamin (07:21):So they paid you forEric Fogel (07:22):It? They, they wrote me a check, and that was the first time, you know, someone was like, paying me to, to make a thing.Michael Jamin (07:30):And then what happened?Eric Fogel (07:31):So I said, all right, that, that worked well. I want to keep doing that. So I just kept making, making like little short films. And I, I licensed a couple more to, to those guys, to the Spike and Mike Festival. And they would do this thing where they would, they would option the film, but they would also give you like com like a little money to, to finish the film. Which was, which was pretty, you know, it's not a, not a great deal. But it was, at that timeMichael Jamin (07:59):It was, these were like shorts, right?Eric Fogel (08:01):Yeah. Yeah. Just shorts. But, you know, you would send them, like, you could send them like a pencil test, and then they, they'd say like, here's a couple grand to finish it. And then, then they would like show it in their, their circuit.Michael Jamin (08:15):So, all right. So then, but you're okay, you're selling some stuff. It's got after college, you're not making a fortune. Yeah. You're, but you also have like a day job.Eric Fogel (08:24):I was I was hired. So I started working in a, in a small animation studio in New York, Uhhuh at that time. And I was learning, you know, just learning stuff. So one of the one of the directors at that studio he, he had a little problem with substance, substance abuse problem. Interesting. I'm not gonna mention any, any names, but he would, he would spend a lot of time just sleeping, sleeping it off. Yeah. And I, and he and I would, I would be animating his shots. And that's how I learned a lot of, a lot of stop motion. It was, it was like a stop motion studio. And I learned a lot. SoMichael Jamin (09:01):You, so you're right. So this is before computer animation, really. You're just kind of you're drawing, you're basically cell by frame By frame.Eric Fogel (09:07):Yeah. Yeah. And just using like a big old Mitchell 35 millimeter camera, just frame one frame at a time.Michael Jamin (09:14):And then, okay, so you did that for a little bit, then what happened?Eric Fogel (09:17):So at, so at the same time, I'm still making these little short films eventually.Michael Jamin (09:23):What was the point of making these short films, though? They're not adding slide actionEric Fogel (09:26):To get a reel together. So, so you to have like a sample sample of your, your stuff. Right. So eventually this real end ends up on the desk at the president of MTV Animation.Michael Jamin (09:40):How, how did it wind up there?Eric Fogel (09:42):I don't know.Michael Jamin (09:44):, but this is a good point. Like, cuz you're just putting your work out there. Yeah. And it's gonna, and it's good. So it's making the rounds, right?Eric Fogel (09:51):Yeah. It's, well, it's, it's, it's making the rounds. I don't know if it's good, but PE people are, there's no, but if itMichael Jamin (09:58):Wasn't good, they wouldn't pass it along. I mean, that's the truth.Eric Fogel (10:01):Yeah. Well, it, it was something, you know, at that time, M T V was, you know, animation was brand new and they, they were looking, you know, they were just looking for weird shit. Yeah. You know, and they saw, they, you know, they probably saw this, this spike in Mike festival and, and you know, like liquid television was becoming a thing. Right, right. And so they were hungry for stuff and, you know, just weird stuff. Right. And I, you know, I had some weird stuff on my reel.Michael Jamin (10:27):Yeah, you did. Well, yeah. And so, okay, so then what happened?Eric Fogel (10:31):So they, so M T v made, made me a deal to option this mutilated.Michael Jamin (10:37):Okay. AndEric Fogel (10:37):The plan was to have the, the Mutilators character appear within the Beavis and Butthead show. Mm-Hmm. . And, and it would be like, it was gonna be like this thing that they were gonna watch on tv and it was gonna be this cool thing that they liked. Right. Kind of fit, fit with their, their thing. Yeah. And then something, something tragic happened there were, there were some kids out west somewhere who burned their family's trailer down. And they said they, they learned how to, like, about fire from Beavis and Butthead.Michael Jamin (11:15):Oh, I, I At least it wasn't mutilated.Eric Fogel (11:18):No, no. But this created this whole wave, like this backlash. And all of a sudden MTV got scared and they said, oh, you know, we got, we can't, we have to be careful. And Mutilators was like violent. Yeah. Even though it was, it was sci-fi it was fantasy violence. It wasn't real. Yeah. But they were, they were just, they got cold feet. So I went to this meeting knowing that they were gonna shit can Mutilators and, and I had already set up like a little studio in my, in my house at, on Long Island, and I was like in production on this thing. So I was, I was nervous. Yeah. So I go to this meeting and, and Mike Judge is actually there. Mike Judge, the creator of Beavis and Butthead, he's, he's in this meeting and they're like, Eric, you know, we we're not, we can't go forward with Mutilators, but we, we like you, do you have anything else?(12:08):And I, I had this storyboard. I actually brought it to that meeting. And this, it was for this other thing that I had come up with about this guy with like a giant head and, and an alien that lived inside of this head. And it was like, about the symbiotic relationship Yeah. Between a guy, a guy, and an alien. And my judge, I just, I'll never forget this. He was kind of like hanging back and he was looking at my drawings and he was just laughing. Yeah. And these other two MTV execs were like, oh, Mike, Mike likes it. We should buy this. And they did and,Michael Jamin (12:44):And Muo was that,Eric Fogel (12:45):That was called the Head. Right. And that was it was part of like, it was called MTV's Oddities.Michael Jamin (12:51):Uhhuh .Eric Fogel (12:51):And that was, I was like 24 or 25. And that was the first show that I ran as a creator.Michael Jamin (12:58):But this is the kind of, this speaks to which is so important. It's like you were making this stuff because you were making it, and you were, it wasn't like, it wasn't even like, you weren't trying to sell that you were just making, you had, you have to have stuff to have.Eric Fogel (13:09):I had an idea.Michael Jamin (13:10):Right. And you worked on it. You didn't wait to get paid on it. You worked on it.Eric Fogel (13:14):Yeah.Michael Jamin (13:15):Right. And so, and you were, you were right. Did you have a small staff on that show?Eric Fogel (13:20):Yeah, we had, you know, we had a full staffMichael Jamin (13:23):On that and now was at Outta New York.Eric Fogel (13:26):We, we did, we ran the, the show out of, yeah. Out of MTV Animation in Midtown Manhattan. Wow. You know, set up shop there. I wrote, and I wrote an and show around that show with a, I had a, a writing partner at that time. And yeah, we wrote all the episodes and it was, it was wonderful because it was like, it's not like now, like, it was like, they were hands off, like creatively. They were like, yeah, great. It's great. Just do it. Do it. Do what you want. Do what you want.Michael Jamin (13:57):Interesting. That's so interesting. Wow. And then, and then at what point was this? Is there, what point did you make a leap to LA? Or, or am I missing something in between?Eric Fogel (14:05):Yeah, so I, you know, I stuck it out. So after the head, I did Celebrity Death Match.Michael Jamin (14:10):Right. That was outta New York.Eric Fogel (14:11):And then, you know, I continued working at small studios in New York. MTV animation closed, like shortly after nine 11, they shuttered. And, you know, business in New York kind of started to dry up after nine 11.Michael Jamin (14:27):There wasn't, there was never even a lot of business in New York. But I didn't even, you know,Eric Fogel (14:30):You No, but there was, yeah, there was, you know, m there was M T V and then there was some small commercial studios there. And I continued working at some of those smaller studios. You know, and we, all our family was there, so Right. We were sort of resisting the, the, the big move to, to la And then finally in 2008 when Glen Martin happened, and we made the move.Michael Jamin (14:54):Right. With your whole family. Yes. And then you flew back to tra that was the tragic part. If you had only stayed in New York, , your flight would've been soEric Fogel (15:02):Much. Yeah. I was like, honey, here's, here's our house kids. There's, there's your rooms. I gotta go. You guys figure it out.Michael Jamin (15:11):Enjoy the sunshine.Eric Fogel (15:13):My, my wife's still, she, you know, she, she's still pissed at me. We, no, we love each other, but No, it was, it was a tough move. We didn't know anybody here in la. Right. You know, it was a big, it was a big, big adjustment. And yeah, it was bit a shock.Michael Jamin (15:29):What does she think of it now? Is she happy you're here or No,Eric Fogel (15:31):I think, yeah, we've, we've made our peace with it. You know, we still miss our family. Our families are still all back east. Yeah. but we, we feel like it was a good thing for our family, you know, for our kids.Michael Jamin (15:44):Oh, you think so? You think they're, they're probably getting ready for college now. Your kids?Eric Fogel (15:48):Oh, they're almost done.Michael Jamin (15:50):They're almost done withEric Fogel (15:50):Cops. Well, one is, yeah. One our oldest is out. He's already graduated. And our, we have twin girls and they're graduating this this year.Michael Jamin (15:57):Oh God. We'll talk about that one. I know. Wonder what that's gonna happen. What happened there? Okay, so then, and then, alright. We did Glen Martin. And the thing about that is, so my partner and I were siber, we write these episodes. We come into your office and say, this is, this is the crazy that the craziest job you ever No, probably not. Cuz we would give you an assignment, like, this is the, what does this character look like in your head? Then you'd sketch a design and then we'd maybe give you notes or not. And then you'd run off. Then you'd fly to Toronto and they started a animated this thing. And you had to oversee every time there was a problem, we'd yell at you . And, and then you'd have to fixEric Fogel (16:33):It. Then I go yell at them and you'dMichael Jamin (16:35):Yell at them. And there was, yeah. There was always problems. It's always you know, because it's a, it's such a long process to, it took, you know, nine months to animate that show.Eric Fogel (16:43):That that show. I mean, there will never be another show like that. Right.Michael Jamin (16:49):Why do you feel that way?Eric Fogel (16:50):It was, I mean, just the concept was super ambitious, right? Yeah. You got, you got a family, you know, traveling from, from town to town every episode. Yeah. So every single episode you have to build a brand new world for this family to play in. Yeah. Right. That's a huge amount to build. And you have to build it all from scratchMichael Jamin (17:16):There. And there was a lot, we also did a lot of CGI on. We, not a lot. Some, you know, not,Eric Fogel (17:21):Not a lot.Michael Jamin (17:22):The mouses, the mouses, and also sometimes the backgrounds. Right. We would doEric Fogel (17:26):We would do some green screen. We'd do green screen. But, but a lot of those, I mean, most of those sets were, were Yeah. Physical, practical, physical models.Michael Jamin (17:36):I have all, I still have my dolls, just so you know. They're all here.Eric Fogel (17:40):Oh, hey, wait, IMichael Jamin (17:41):Got one. You have more. I remember when you had, you had your dolls. I was like, how do I get a hand? How do I get my hand on someone? Focals Dolls Eric Fogel (17:48):There.Michael Jamin (17:49):How Steal your dog. Which one's that? What's, oh, wait, but is that, was that from Glen? What was he, what was that?Eric Fogel (17:54):That hok? Honk Hawks The Clown. The Killer Clown. That'sMichael Jamin (17:57):Oh, we see What episode was that?Eric Fogel (17:59):I don't know. Sunshine. Fun, fun, fun. Bill Hawks.Michael Jamin (18:02):The Killer Clown did. There's so much about that show. I don't even remember.Eric Fogel (18:04):Remember who did The Voice?Michael Jamin (18:07):Who?Eric Fogel (18:08):Ty Burrell.Michael Jamin (18:09):That was Ty. Dude. We can you imagine We directed some amazing, amazing, remember we did, we directed Brian Cranston. Yep. When he was coming off break, he was doing BreakingEric Fogel (18:19):Bad. Still doing it. Yeah. Yeah.Michael Jamin (18:21):And he loved it. He's like, this is great.Eric Fogel (18:24):. He was amazing. We almost, we almost had a spinoffMichael Jamin (18:28):With him. Yes. Hi. That's him over here. Yeah. That'sEric Fogel (18:32):Drake Stone.Michael Jamin (18:34):That was a bummer. That didn't happen.Eric Fogel (18:36):Yep.Michael Jamin (18:36):Yep. Oh, well,Eric Fogel (18:38):But the cat, yeah. I, I mean we should talk about some of the other day players on that show because I meanMichael Jamin (18:45):Yeah, we, I mean it was amazing. The cat, we Every,Eric Fogel (18:48):Every day. Mel Brooks.Michael Jamin (18:50):Mel Brooks. Right.Eric Fogel (18:51):Billy Idol.Michael Jamin (18:53):Billy Idol. I don't remember Billy Idol.Eric Fogel (18:55):. He did a, he did the Christmas episode and he sang a song. He sang aMichael Jamin (18:59):Oh, right. Maybe it wasn't there. That I remember we had friend Drescher. Yeah. Remember were you there thatEric Fogel (19:04):Day? Yep.Michael Jamin (19:05):And we couldn't get her Remember? So, so Erica, we direct together, we'd whispered each other and it's not quite right. How did we get her to do, you know? And then I remember we finally walked up to her cuz she wasn't, the character wasn't quite white. And I was said, listen, can you do the nanny? She's like, oh sure. And then the then she started basically doing the nanny.Eric Fogel (19:23):You want the nanny,Michael Jamin (19:25):You want the nanny. You kind of, youEric Fogel (19:26):Want it, youMichael Jamin (19:27):Don't wanna ask. You wanna, you don't really wanna ask. You wanna get them there. Yeah. You know, I don't wanna insult her, but she was like, delight French. She was so sweet.Eric Fogel (19:35):Alison Jenny, she was great. She an Alexander.Michael Jamin (19:38):Yep.Eric Fogel (19:39):George Decay.Michael Jamin (19:40):Decay.Eric Fogel (19:42):My God. Fergie.Michael Jamin (19:44):Yep. Yep.Eric Fogel (19:47):I meanMichael Jamin (19:47):So much. Mc Hammer, we remember we had Mc HammerEric Fogel (19:50):Pen. GilletteMichael Jamin (19:51):Pen Gillette. I forgot. She's the what? A Oh my God.Eric Fogel (19:54):Was Jean Simmons.Michael Jamin (19:57):. Jean Simmons. Yeah. I remember that. . That was a day. And then, okay, so then once, once Glen Martin went down. Yeah. What happened to you then?Eric Fogel (20:08):? I don't know. What happened. So, you know, it was, that was a sort of a tricky time because I, I, I had to kind of reinvent myself. Did.Michael Jamin (20:20):Right.Eric Fogel (20:20):I was here in town. We did that show. That show was ama you know, it was an amazing experience, but nobody fucking saw it.Michael Jamin (20:29):Right,Eric Fogel (20:29):Right.Michael Jamin (20:30):And no one understood what you did on it either, because you create, you, you, you kind of invented a, you were a necessary incredibly important cog. But who, how do you describe, you know, how do you describe it to people? I, cause I'm even asking you, well, you were, you were one of the executive producers, but I'm almost like, well, what was your ion job? I mean, what, that was your job title, but it'd be, it'd be hard for me to describe what you did. Cause you did so much.Eric Fogel (20:53):Yeah. I mean, I guess on that show I was, I was more of a directing showrunner.Michael Jamin (20:58):Is that what you would call it?Eric Fogel (20:59):If you Yeah. Because, you know, I feel like there are some categories, right, with show like showrunners. So there are writing showrunners, which I consider like you and cber were like the writing showrunners. And I was on that show. More of a, the directing maybeMichael Jamin (21:14):Actually May in King of the Hill. I think they would call it a supervising director. Is that what you wereEric Fogel (21:18):Maybe. I mean, I don'tMichael Jamin (21:21):Supervise all the directors,Eric Fogel (21:22):Basically. It's different. Yeah. I guess there's, they're different credits.Michael Jamin (21:26):Yeah. I re Yeah, it was hard. It was a hard, there was so much for you to oversee. It was crazy.Eric Fogel (21:34):Yeah. And it's, I mean, and, and I love that. Like, that's, for me, that's what I do. It's soup to nuts, just mm-hmm. every, every piece of the production, I just, I I like to have a hand in holiday.Michael Jamin (21:50):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Michael Jamin (22:14):So how did you reinvent yourself? Like what does that mean really?Eric Fogel (22:17):So I was here in town and after Glenn Martin, you know, there were, we had a, there were a couple things, but a couple things fell through. We were gonna do, there was another show mm-hmm. that I, I was developing with to, and it was this was weird. But we, this we, we developed this show alongside BoJack. Right. So it was like Scoop was working on, on BoJack. And then we had this other project and we, we actually sold this other project to a network. We had like, like an a, an agree, like an accepted offer. And it looked like it was going forward until the head of the studio just decided, eh, didn't wanna do animation.Michael Jamin (23:01):Yeah.Eric Fogel (23:02):That happened. So that, that got killed. And so I had to find some, some work. I ended up directing a show at Nickelodeon and it was a CG show. Mm-Hmm. . So I wanted to, it was, it was more of a kids show. Right. And it was, you know, I wanted to have the experience of, of directing cg. Okay. So I did that for a few years and it's, you know, that, and then it, you, you sort of, there you, there's stepping stones andMichael Jamin (23:31):That's just a big learning curve though.Eric Fogel (23:34):There's, there is a learning curve for sure. And it was important to me to, to have,Michael Jamin (23:39):Because you didn't learn, you didn't study that in college. What did you know about it?Eric Fogel (23:41):They didn't have, they didn't have computer animation there. Right. So you just have to, the best way to, to learn is to just be immersed in it. Right. Just on the Jobb training. So I, I did, I got that experience and that, that experience led me to, to Dreamworks.Michael Jamin (24:00):Right. And how, and you've been at Dreamworks for six years. And what do you do, what are you doing at Dreamworks? Basically do, are you, do you have a studio deal with Dreamworks? Is that what it'sMichael Jamin (24:08):Overall deal or something?Eric Fogel (24:09):They, I'm under contract. So right now it's kind of show to show.Michael Jamin (24:15):Alright. So you have a contract and they, they put you on whatever show they have going.Eric Fogel (24:19):Yeah, but they also were nice enough to keep me around. So they sort of put me on an overall deal. Cuz there was like a gap between shows. So that, that was very nice of them. Yeah. Keep me,Michael Jamin (24:31):They don't wanna lose you.Eric Fogel (24:32):I guess. They like me enough to keep me.Michael Jamin (24:34):It's so interesting cause I just had one of my previous guys, I may, I dunno if you know 'em, you probably don't. But John Abel and Glen Glen, they do all the kung They're the writers, the kung fu pander writers. They do a lot of dreamwork stuff.Eric Fogel (24:45):Yeah. Guys.Michael Jamin (24:46):Oh, you do, do you work with them?Eric Fogel (24:48):I haven't, but I'm familiar with them.Michael Jamin (24:50):So what exactly are you doing at Dreamworks then? We, as from jumping from show to show?Eric Fogel (24:55):Yeah. So they hired me initially, this is now almost six years to the day I started doing a show called Archibald's, next Big Thing. Mm-Hmm. , which was created by Mr. Tony Hale.Michael Jamin (25:10):Oh, he created, I know he's in it. I didn't know he created it.Eric Fogel (25:12):Created and voiced and was an, was an exec producer.Michael Jamin (25:18):And, and it's What network is that? Nickelodeon.Eric Fogel (25:21):That was so we started on Netflix. Okay. So we produced here at Dreamworks, we premiered on Netflix season one. And then season two we were on PeacockMichael Jamin (25:34):And Oh, is that, is there, is there a season three in the works or what?Eric Fogel (25:37):No, no. So the thing to know about animation these days is they don't order a a lot of episodes. It's, you know, the, it's, they've, especially on these streaming platforms.Michael Jamin (25:48):Oh, well that's the way it is for a live actually. Yeah. So what are you doing, se like 13 or something?Eric Fogel (25:53):We did two. So for Archibald we did two seasons and it was it was like 50. It ended up being like 50 half hours or fif 50. It's actually a hundred, a hundred episode. There are 11 minute episodes. So we did 111 minute episodes.Michael Jamin (26:08):That's actually, and are you, what are you, are you running the show? Are you running it? AreEric Fogel (26:11):You So I so that on that show, I was, I was exec producing, I was a writer and I was, I was basically doing a little of everything. Same, same thing. Directing, writing, overseeing every aspect of it.Michael Jamin (26:25):But it's not like every writer, there's a writing staff on that show. Right.Eric Fogel (26:29):We, we had, we had a, a staff and we had a couple head writers who, and they, those guys were great. I love those guys. They had never run, run a show before.Michael Jamin (26:39):Uhhuh .Eric Fogel (26:40):So I felt like I could be helpful there, you know, just in the writer's room and, and just, it just sort of organically evolved to where, you know, I didn't expect to be so involved in, in the writing process on that show. It just, it just turned out like, it just was a natural,Michael Jamin (26:57):That's the whole thing. You have a very unusual career path in career because cuz you do so many things.Eric Fogel (27:04):Yeah. I mean, I don't, there's no rules for this. I'm just making thisMichael Jamin (27:07):Up. Yeah. There's no rule. So, I mean, it's quite impressive because like, if I, I don't know what, what would, what, how would you advise? You must have kids come into you, Hey, how do I, how do I get to do what you do? Like what do you tell them?Eric Fogel (27:23):I mean you gotta have, you know, there's, there are a couple of key ingredients, right? You, you gotta have the passion,Michael Jamin (27:31):Right.Eric Fogel (27:32):For it, for the craft. You have to have the ability mm-hmm. have to have the skills. Michael Jamin (27:39):But you didn't have the ability when you started. Right.Eric Fogel (27:42):I had some ability. SomeMichael Jamin (27:44):Ability.Eric Fogel (27:44):And I kinda, yeah. I mean a lot of it is you have to immerse yourself and you have to just make things and you have to learn as you make things. You can't, you know, you can watch YouTube videos all day long, but you gotta like just get in it. And now it's one, you know, we have, the technology has changed so much. It's made it so much easier. Mm-Hmm. to make things. NowMichael Jamin (28:08):With those like those animation program, I mean, do you do anything like that on the side for yourself? Like what? Or, or, I mean, you know, at home for anyone? IEric Fogel (28:17):Don't have time for that. No. I these days. Yeah. I mean, I, I'm, you know, this, this job keeps, keeps me. ButMichael Jamin (28:24):Let's say you had a side project that you just wanted to get off the ground. Yeah. You just pitched the idea.Eric Fogel (28:29):I could, yeah. I mean, I have put things together and I've made, yeah. I've been able to make little animations you know, for projects, original projects that I've pitched. And I'll, I'll put together a whole presentation. I'll do all the visuals. I'll edit it and, and put together Yeah. Like little proof of concepts, right? That yeah. That stuff is, yeah. I love doingMichael Jamin (28:49):That. And that's on your own, but that's on your own time.Eric Fogel (28:51):That is on my own time. YourMichael Jamin (28:53):Own with, with some program you have.Eric Fogel (28:55):Yep.Michael Jamin (28:56):What's, what kind of program is this? What, what is it?Eric Fogel (28:58):I mean, I, you can, you can animate with Photoshop now. Oh. So that's, you know, that's, that's a thing. I, I use Sony movie Maker, which is this archaic system. I, I just, I'm really comfortable with it and I, I can use that to, to build projects and I can even animate on that thing.Michael Jamin (29:16):Are you doing any stop motion anymore?Eric Fogel (29:18):I haven't done stop motion in a long time.Michael Jamin (29:20):Because why the market part?Eric Fogel (29:24):You know, it's, it's just the, the right project hasn't really surfaced. And you know, I've, I've, I've pitched Project stop motion is a hard one to sell. People are afraid of it.Michael Jamin (29:36):Is it the look that's the, that's the criticism I get. They go that, here's the thing. Every, so I've been, I post a lot on social media and people will say, oh, I used to watch Glen Martin. And the, the phrase that comes back is that show is a fever dream. I was like, what's a fever dream? But everyone describes it as a fever dream. And what thatEric Fogel (29:55):Mean? Like, creepy. IMichael Jamin (29:56):Think it means like, like you were, they were in like, it felt like they were in an opium den, den era.Eric Fogel (30:03):. What it felt like for me.Michael Jamin (30:05):What's that?Eric Fogel (30:06):It's what it felt like for me Felt likeMichael Jamin (30:07):To, I mean, but it's like I, I, I don't know. There's something about like, I always like that format. Cause I always like this old bank and resting,Eric Fogel (30:17):Right. Bank ranking and backMichael Jamin (30:18):And best. Yeah. I always thought,Eric Fogel (30:20):Yeah. I mean, some people have got, I love, I've always loved the, the look of stop motion and you know, it's, there's something super charming and not just like, endearing about the, like the handcrafted aspect aspect of it. Right. Right. It's so cool. ButMichael Jamin (30:35):Don't feel that way. I guessEric Fogel (30:36):It's al it's always been the kind of like the redheaded stepchild of animation though, you know? Yeah. Always on. Always on the, on the fringes. And now, you know, it's hard enough to sell a show, any show. Right. Uhhuh . But it's in ama in the, in the animation industry, it feels like they're, they're only looking for, for CG animation these days. And there's just,Michael Jamin (30:56):Is that right? I mean, what, explain the different types of animation, because obviously there's, there's like, yeah. CG, like Shrek or somethingEric Fogel (31:03):Mm-Hmm.Michael Jamin (31:03): and then go on there actually different levels in terms of, you know, expense. What, how does that work?Eric Fogel (31:11):I mean, there, you know, there, so there there's like traditional hand drawn animation. But even that is all done mostly in computer these days. So there, there's no more like, hand painted cells. Right. But the actual movement, a lot of that stuff can still be done, done by hand.Michael Jamin (31:29):Uhhuh,Eric Fogel (31:29):. And then, you know, you got stop motion, you got cg and there, there are worlds in between where, you know, stylistically they, they're, they're doing a lot of thing, you know, design wise, they're kind of blending the, all the techniques.Michael Jamin (31:44):But it must be in terms of like, when they tell you what the budget of the show is, that greatly determines how good it's gonna look in the, how the, you know, the animation.Eric Fogel (31:52):Right. It can, you know, so right now I'm working on Megamind, the, the sequel to the, to the 2010 film Megamind. Right. And that's gonna air later this year. And I can't say a lot about it cuz they haven't announced a lot about it. Right. But the quality the quality of the animation, the technology has improved so much. Mm-Hmm. that even, even on a, a smaller tier budget, you can still, the quality of the animations really it's really improved.Michael Jamin (32:31):Right. So, so when you sell a show or when they bring you on a show, are you asking these questions or it's like, ah, someone else, you know, in terms of like, how much money do we get to spend on?Eric Fogel (32:42):Well they, yeah. They tell me and then I have to figure out how to make the show.Michael Jamin (32:47):Right. They tell you. Right. And so where will you cut corners or something.Eric Fogel (32:52):Yeah. So, so that's where it gets challenging. And, and you have to become very, you know, creative and, and and problem solving to, to be able to deliver. Right. The show the show you want and the show that they want with within these, you know, what, what can sometimes be a very small sandbox.Michael Jamin (33:10):Yeah.Eric Fogel (33:10):You know,Michael Jamin (33:11):And then so what, so what are you, you know, what are your ambitions or future ambitions or, you know, what, what excites you coming up or whatEric Fogel (33:20):You know, I would, I'd love to expand the Sandbox and be able to make a, make a leap into directing a feature would be really exciting. Oh really? Yeah.Michael Jamin (33:31):At at Dreamworks or, or any place really.Eric Fogel (33:34):Yeah. I mean I love it here. So I I would for sure love to direct a feature here. Right. But that, that would, you know, that would be a, a dream to, to be able to do that someday and, and to be able to, you know, spend three years, you know, focusing on, on like 90 minutes of content as opposed to, you know, hundreds of minutes of, of content to be able to like microfocus on that.Michael Jamin (34:00):It's so interesting cuz for me it's kind of other way around. Like, I, I, you know, I have to, I don't know. Cuz you get to every, every week you get, all right, here's something new. I have to live with something. But you're saying you, because you really wanna make the qual, you really want to spend time to make sure every frame is right.Eric Fogel (34:17):I would love, yeah, that would be, that would be a dream. Because in TV animation, you know, it's, it's like there's always this, this schedule. You're a slave to the schedule.Michael Jamin (34:29):Right.Eric Fogel (34:29):And you, you know. And soMichael Jamin (34:31):Are you, are you in the Glendale campus of Dreamwork? Is that where you are? Yeah. Are you there right now? Yeah, this is, this is really your,Eric Fogel (34:38):This is my office.Michael Jamin (34:39):This is your real office over at Dreamworks. People fa Okay. So you're okay. I don't even know if they with Covid if you're working from home or not.Eric Fogel (34:47):I still, yeah, I'm here a couple days a week.Michael Jamin (34:50):Uhhuh Eric Fogel (34:50):These days.Michael Jamin (34:52):And, and cuz this is your show. So you, well, are you working with writers? You know, how are you, how, how involved are you right now with Theri? Is there a writer's room or whatEric Fogel (35:00):Where, so the writing is, is wrapped on this show, but we were really fortunate because we got the two guys Brent Simons and Alan Schoolcraft, who wrote the original Megamind mm-hmm. were brought, were brought in as, as eps to, to basically help Showrun and, and run the writer's room. So having those guys was, was a gift, you know, cuz they, they kind of, they invented Megamind. So,Michael Jamin (35:30):And this is all on the Dreamworks campus? The writer's?Eric Fogel (35:32):Yeah. We did the writing here. A lot of the, a lot of the, the create a lot of art on this show is done not in Toronto. It's a lot of it's done in Vancouver.Michael Jamin (35:42):Oh, are you, are you ma are you making the trip up there? DoEric Fogel (35:46):You have to? I've been up there. I've been up there a couple of times. But we are, luckily, yeah, now that we've got, you know, zoom, it's, you know, I can do a lot of this right here. A lot of the work I can do right here.Michael Jamin (35:58):See, that's so wait, so, so they are, these subcontract, subcontracting out a lot of the animation at Dreamworks. I I kind of, it was under the impression they did it all themselves.Eric Fogel (36:07):They have always had partner studios, even like on the early features they, they were partnering with, with studios. So there's always been this sort of hybrid model on this particular show. Almost all of the, the, the art, the art side of it is, is outsourced on, on this show. Michael Jamin (36:29):Interesting. And then, and so they're actually, okay, so the animation houses are there. I mean, basically if you're an, so if you're an animator, it's interesting, there's different levels of animation, animators. This is all, and I've worked, I've worked in animation for many years. I still don't understand how it works. But but like, I remember like when we worked I worked at it wasn't Bento Box, it was whoever was doing King the Hill, Fort Bento. But Oh,Eric Fogel (36:56):I know who you're talking about.Michael Jamin (36:57):Yeah. I was, I'm forgetting, I'm blanking now. But they, the animators would've to come take tests. You would apply for a job of animator. Yeah. They'd give you a test, draw this frame or whatever, you know, is that how it still works there? Maybe stickEric Fogel (37:11):Computer. Yeah, I mean there's always, you know, it's like anything else, right? You have to audition, right. Or things. And yeah, there are, there are definitely, there's a big kinda leap in terms of skill levelsMichael Jamin (37:26):OfEric Fogel (37:26):Artists. Right. Because so much of art is like subjective.Michael Jamin (37:31):Yeah. It's so, it's so interesting. That's this career. But, and what about, I don't know, live action? Any interest getting back into doing more or? No,Eric Fogel (37:40):I would love to do some, some live action at some point. I, I've got like a horror movie that I would love to try to do one day. And you know, I, I'm, I'm such a huge like, horror sci-fi nut.Michael Jamin (37:55):Right. Are you, and are you pitching other shows as well? Or, or, you know, is how does it work in Dreamworks? So like, we have an idea, we have to show you're hired Fogal. I mean, is that what it is? Basically?Eric Fogel (38:06):They have, yeah. I mean they have a, an in-house development process. And when you're, when you're here, they, you know, there's like a, you have, there's a first look deal. So you, you, if you have an idea, you're sort of obligated to first.Michael Jamin (38:21):Right.Eric Fogel (38:23):And you know, the, so the industry's a little different right now cuz there's, they're not, you know, there aren't, there aren't a lot of shows being sold or bought right now , because it'sMichael Jamin (38:35):No kidding. Is that and is that the way, I didn't know if that's the way it is for animation as well.Eric Fogel (38:40):It is. So, you know, I'm very, very happy to be working on Megamind right now. .Michael Jamin (38:46):Yeah, right.Eric Fogel (38:47):This will keep me employed, you know, for the next year or so. But it's like, you know, it's like anything else. We, we work job to job and there's never any guarantee Nope. That you're gonna get hired again. You just, you know, it's all kind of on good faith.Michael Jamin (39:02):Are you working with the actors too? Directing actors as well?Eric Fogel (39:05):I'm directing all the voice actors on this show.Michael Jamin (39:08):You're the only director. Yeah. And, and then you're also supervising the animation, the, theEric Fogel (39:14):All of it. Yeah, allMichael Jamin (39:15):Of that. Yep. Good for you, man. Carved out quite a little career for yourself.Eric Fogel (39:20):It's fun.Michael Jamin (39:21):Yeah,Eric Fogel (39:21):It's fun. Keeps me busy. But I, I do love it. I do.Michael Jamin (39:25):Do you have any other advice for anybody to, you know, what's, you know, trying to break inEric Fogel (39:31):Other, I mean,Michael Jamin (39:32):Make more,Eric Fogel (39:33):You know, it's, you have to, I, it's a long time ago someone told me like, the recipe for, for a successful whatever show movie, whatever, you know, you find that, that thing that, that you love. You put, you put your, all your heart into that thing. And then, you know, you take what everyone else loves and, and it's kind of like where these two things come together that, that's kind of like your sweet spot, right? That's, that's your hit, that's your success. And so you gotta, you know, you gotta like focus in on what that thing is and, and put everything you have into it.Michael Jamin (40:08):I'm surprised they're not talking about bringing celebrity death mat back. That's gotta be next.Eric Fogel (40:13):There have been a few conversations over the years and there, there have been a couple of attempts to bring it back and we, we did. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's not dead, but ,Michael Jamin (40:27):Do they reach out to you or are you actively trying to sell that?Eric Fogel (40:30):I have. So I guess it's Viacom or Yeah, m t v. They, they own the rights to the show, but we, we have an agreement to, you know, if, if they want to bring it back, I'm, I'm attached to it. Right. And we've had, we've had some attempts and for whatever, well we, we did, we did get close. And then yes the studio that had made an offer, they went away. Michael Jamin (41:00):They went awayEric Fogel (41:01):As, as these things do. I'll, I'll tell you offline more about it, .Michael Jamin (41:05):Alright. Like, when we put the animation, the, the ama the animation studio that made Glen Martin, we put 'em outta business .Eric Fogel (41:12):They, they didn't stay in business long after that. . And it's Yeah. Funny because they, I, I don't know if they, at the time I, I'm not sure if they realized how, what, what a unique opportunity that show was for them.Michael Jamin (41:26):What do you mean by that?Eric Fogel (41:28):The, you know, I, again, like these shows, these stop,Michael Jamin (41:32):Like they, how many stop motion series have there been? Right, right. You know, they're few and far between. Right. That was the Yeah, that's another thing. There's only, they're one of the few people that actually could do it. And I don't, I don't even know what they were doing beforehand. It's Right. So when they went out of business, like there was like, what else are you gonna do? You know, they wanted be like, people aren't lining up. Yeah. Stop for stop motion shows. Right? There's only a handful. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, yeah. Anyway. Is there any way, is there, do you wanna promote anything? Do you want people to follow you anywhere? Is there anything we can do to help you help grow your brand? Eric Fogel. Violent . You can find me. I'm on you can find me on Twitter. Death Match Guy, I think is my, my oh really?(42:19):Twitter handle. I'm verified there. What? Oh. But not on Instagram, just Twitter. I do a little Instagram. I'm not a huge social media person. Yeah. Well, we'll get you there for some weird reason. Yeah. Cause you're, cuz we're the same age. Anyway. All right, dude, I wanna thank you so much. Yeah. I, you've exposed me. I've learned something. Learned something about you and your craft. Yeah, because I, I even remember when we got hired, they said, yeah, we got this guy on, on Glen Martin. We have this guy Eric Fogel. I was like, what does he do? No one can explain it because we do everything. He's the guy. He's the glue, basically. That's what he he's the glue. Yeah. That's, that's it. Yeah. I'm the glue. Yeah. All right, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for, for joining me e. Excellent. that's it everyone. More good stuff next week. Go check out what Eric Fogel's up to. And he's a great guy. Thank you again so much for doing this, man. Don't go anywhere. All right, everyone, until next week.Phil Hudson (43:18):This has been an episode of Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs to hear today's subject. For free daily screenwriting tips, follow Michael on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at @MichaelJaminWriter. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at @PhilAHudson. This episode was produced by Phil Hudson and edited by Dallas Crane. Until max time, keep riding.

This week we welcome Madison to the crew and Talk about Drive from 2011! Join us and get in on the convo. Also follow us on Twitter @bonsai_crew. And please Like, Share, and Subscribe to the YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@thebonsaimoviecrew1850 !  And check us out on Facebook and Tik Tok and creep on us there! And don't forget our Podcast can be found on Spotify, Amazon music, Apple Podcast, and Google Podcast. Thank you so much for your support! WE LOVE ALL OF YOU!

Brian Cranston is a Hollywood pinhead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TSA stops a bomb from being smuggled onto an airplane, protesters arrested in NYC to receive $21,000+ in compensation, Lori Lightfoot blames racism for her defeat in Chicago, and Peter Pan goes woke. Plus, Bill's Message of the Day, actor Brian Cranston is another Hollywood pinhead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week The President of 2024 and Tech Stuff Guy discuss East Palestine, SNL, Disloyal, FOX, Brian Cranston and more. We are also sponsored by BetOnline.AG for all your sports and casino gambling needs. Use Promo Code CLNS50 to receive a 50% Welcome Bonus on your First Deposit. Go to RocketMoney.com/MPGA It is the easiest way to manage your expenses. Cancel unwanted subscriptions, lower bills, and track your expenses - all in one place. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mason says he wants to pick up Pickleball as a sport and keep practicing on a regular basis, so he is looking to join a pickleball club! More on the Dodgers and how they are trying to stay under the Luxury Tax! and Damian Lillard went for 71 and Mase likes the fact that he doesn't ask for a trade for Portland. Also, Mason talks about White Lotus and the SAG awards they won! and How much did Brian Cranston's Breaking Bad underwear sold for at an auction. Mason says he is worried about his Rams, he can't tell what their off-season is looking like right now. And the topics are in for another edition of WASSUP FOO! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Once again we are opening the cockpit back up and letting you join us for our monthly interstitial conversation. This time around we deep dive into a pair of concepts. Genres and kayfabe. Come along as we discuss the idea of separating movies, music, games and everything else into smaller categories based on only a handful of categories and when we exhaust the well of what use genres are we turn to the subject of kayfabe, an idea that is mostly rooted in wrestling but in many ways has wormed it's way all through the internet. We also vaguely discuss the interaction between fans and the creation of art but that's more a segue than an actual topic. All of this and more this month inside the cockpit!The Copilots Review Patreon page --> PatreonNew episodes on the 2nd and 22nd of every month, with interstitial episodes released on the 12th.You can find us on YouTube. Check us out here --> Copilots Review on YouTubeIf you would like to contact us or recommend a series for us to watch/listen/play/otherwise interact with and review you can email us at CopilotsReview@gmail.com or reach us on Twitter at @copilotsreview, or join the Discord or find all of these options at copilotsreview.simplecast.com. Thanks again!Lastly we want to thank Jessica Kuczynski! She designed our awesome podcast art. You can find her other work, her shop or commission her for original art at her website jessicakuczynski.com or at her twitter

Impressionist and Comedian Frank Caliendo is this week's guest on the podcast. Join Michael and Frank as they discuss Frank's career and his advice for emerging comedians.Show NotesFrank Caliendo's Website - https://www.frankcaliendo.com/Frank Caliendo on Twitter - https://twitter.com/FrankCaliendoFrank Caliendo on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/frankcaliendo/Frank Caliendo on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/frankcaliendoMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutomated TanscriptsFrank Caliendo (00:00:00):So I thought put Seinfeld on drugs and the d the, the bit was why do my fingers look like little people? Who are these people in the door and they're talking to each other? They're probably talking about me when I say it. Talking. I, oh, Jerry, oh, I somebody. Hey Jerry, you look like you've been seeing little people on your fingers. It's, you just let that camera and then the end, it was Newman and Newman's like, hello Jerry. And she, we've lost a sort of Jerry Garcia Grateful Dead commitment of stamps. You would see . So he'd lick the stamps. You know, that was the,Michael Jamin (00:00:33):You're listening to screenwriters. Need to hear this with Michael Jamin.(00:00:41):Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. And I got another great guest today. I'm really racking up the guests. Everyone. before we begin, make sure everyone to get on my my watch list is my free newsletter, by the way. Goes out every friday at michaeljamin.com/watchlist for tips for screenwriters, actors, and directors and all that. And now let's bring him on. Let's bring on my next, my next guest who I met actually many years ago when I was running a show. He's, the show was called Glen Martin. And we, we, this is how it works. And, and Frank, don't worry, I'll give you a minute to talk. I know you're talking about the bit here.Frank Caliendo (00:01:15):No,Michael Jamin (00:01:16):I love it. This is how, this is how it works in animation. It's actually a fun job for, for actors. So basically the casting director, we don't even audition. Can't we say this is what we need and the cast director just bring somebody in and, and and if they're terrible, you know, we just get somebody else to replace them. And so in this role we needed this is we needed someone who could do an impression. And I don't remember what the character was. There's probably some politician. It might have been Obama, it might have been George Bush, someone like that. And so she had our casting director was Linda Lamont, Montana. And she goes, I have just the guy. And she brings him in. And it was, it was Frank, Frank Callo, thank you so much for being on the, my podcast, Frank.Frank Caliendo (00:01:55):And now I'm back. How about that? Huh?Michael Jamin (00:01:57):Now you're back. And he killed it. Now Frank, is this your, Frank has got Frank, you know, the, and, and, and the Game of Thrones. There was like the the man of, what was it? The god of many faces. Is that what it was? You're, you're the man. You're the god of many voices.Frank Caliendo (00:02:11):I'll take it. Yeah, I'llMichael Jamin (00:02:12):Take, take it.Frank Caliendo (00:02:12):It it's like six and then I just kind of do variations on it.Michael Jamin (00:02:16):I don't think so. Dude, you are amazing. You are amazing at how you do that. I want to get into like how you actually do that.Frank Caliendo (00:02:23):Well, there, there, okay. So let's, let's get into, first of all, I didn't believe you that I did the show that you said I did, cuz I kind of remember Glen Martin. D d s I remember getting the sides for it. I remember getting an email about it, but I don't remember doing it cuz we talked at some point that you were doing a live a live stream. And you're like I think that's where it was. And I was like, you said, oh, Frank, you did a thing with me. Or maybe we just instant message back and forth. I'm like, you're crazy. I don't remember doing that. I just looked it up on I mdb and I did do it. You did do it. It was George Bush and I guess John Madden. Go figure. You probably Madden happy for Georges Bush. So you wrote in the John Madden thing, I'm guessing. Michael Jamin (00:03:09):It's so funny. It's so funny that you chose to forget that you were on Glen Martin. How, howFrank Caliendo (00:03:13):She, I don't remember a lot of stuff and I don't even do any drugs, but it's like, I don't, I don't remember. I remember it was like a declamation kind of thing, right?Michael Jamin (00:03:19):Yeah. Yes. Right. And it was, that was Kevin Neen. He, he the, he the guy. So, yeah. And you, you crushed it and you did. No, it wasn't John. John.Frank Caliendo (00:03:29):I crushed it so much. I've never worked with you again. That's butMichael Jamin (00:03:32):I haven't done not have animation since. No,Frank Caliendo (00:03:34):That's true, jerk.Michael Jamin (00:03:35):I did Barry for 10 minutes though. But youFrank Caliendo (00:03:38):Know, it's funny. Here's a funny thing though. This is a funny thing, is that I haven't done a lot of animation. So you think of me as animation because of the voices. And that's the thing that's always weird. And that's why one of the reasons I didn't do a ton of voice acting. One, I wasn't as good at it as some other people. But two, it was like, because once you do that, it's amazing how people think of you in like, I'm in a couple of different tunnels for pi. It, it's, you know, the pi, the holes of the pigeon. I am a, people think of me as a sports guy and an impressionist. So it's like, oh, we, that's all he can do. So they never, so I, it's so funny because recently people have been like, ah, you wouldn't do this little partner move.(00:04:19):I'm like, yeah, I would, I do, do I have to do an impression? No. Oh good. Are you gonna rewrite the part? So I do impressions? No. Perfect. Interesting. That's what I wanna do. Now I do this, the impression stuff to keep the lights on. I mean, that's what I do on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. It's, there's some fun with it too. But that's the amazing thing is people start to get, I think I saw you do something recently where you said, you know, beat the dead horse. Right? You're like, it can Oh yeah. Do the thing. Do the thing you're known for . Yes. Keep doing it. Keep doing. I did it for 20 years andMichael Jamin (00:04:52):Well, I'm telling, and I'm talking about beginning people, but Yeah. But for you I can understand.Frank Caliendo (00:04:55):Absolutely. It's, it's, it's, and then you, you then you get to that point where you're like, I gotta do some other, some other stuff. And it's so funny because then people don't want you for anything else. Right. And then you go back and do some of the stuff again. But there's like two careers. And I've heard David Spade talking to those other people. Probably talked about it too. But I used to say this until I heard David Spade say it too. And then I'm like, oh, people think I was just taking it from David Spade. But it was, you spend the first career, you have two careers, the first career pigeonholing yourself, getting known, doing something, Uhhuh . And then the second career is being able to do something else, right? Like getting outside of that. So I had the first one. So I'm fighting in that little bit of that second one.Michael Jamin (00:05:33):Well, you know, so I, I wrote for Spade twice on just Shoot Me. And then later on Rules of engagement. So I'm just curious, what does he think is, what is his second career? What was he talking about?Frank Caliendo (00:05:41):Well, I I I just saw it in a, you know, I, I worked with him recently and didn't bring it up because I was scared of him. No. Why would you be scared of David SP's scared of David? Like, I tower over David sp five, six. No I'm trying to think. It was just something I saw him talk about on a talk show. And I, you know, it was one of those things I'm like, ah man, somebody much more famous than me is talking about this. So I don't know whatMichael Jamin (00:06:07):Thing you'd like to do. Well, I mean, you're amazing at pressure. I can see why you might wanna do something up, but what is it acting? I mean, you know,Frank Caliendo (00:06:13):It's just acting in small parts, you know, just small things because one, people think you want to only do big things and carry a show. Right. I don't really even have any interest in that. I don't even, I, I don't even wanna carry a show Uhhuh. Cause that's, I I I don't feel like my acting is at that level where I, anytime I've ever wanted to do something in Hollywood, I've always wanted to surround myself with good people. And they get confused when you try to do that. Yeah. They're like, why would you want somebody else to Well, cause I want it to be as funny as possible. I grew up, I grew up playing sports. When you have a good team, you do your part on the team. When I had Frank tv it was my show that came after Mad tv. It was shortened by the writer strike and it had some struggles and stuff like that. But it was one of those things where and it wasn't that good. And when it was finally put together, I was amazed. Cuz we had great writers and they would do it. They would pieces John Bowman that were Bowman and Matt Wickline.Michael Jamin (00:07:09):Yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:07:09):Great writers. Brenda Hay king and Lance Crowder. All these guys, like people Rachel Ramas, there were really great people Yeah. Involved in the show. But then by the time it was cut and put on tv, all the air was taken out. It was boo boo, boo boo boom. And you know, when that happens, there's no setups. It's all punchlines and you look like you're trying too hard. Yeah. That's, you know, you and I just didn't have, I'm, I'm not enough of a fighter. You need somebody who's gonna fight for you and do somebody who's gonna have the vision and fight for the vision and has been in that spot before to fight. And I just, I mean, I was doing like 15, 20 pages a day cuz I was playing all the parts until I got them to get other people on the show. So it was one of those things where I was just like, I was exhausted. I didn't even get to see edits. I didn't, I didn't like watch myself. Cause I was also too fat at the time. Yeah. I was like, I'm so fat in these things. I, it looks like South Park episodes. Michael Jamin (00:08:08):But how did that come part about, did you have a development deal at a studio orFrank Caliendo (00:08:11):Something being fat?Michael Jamin (00:08:13):No. You a lotFrank Caliendo (00:08:15):Exercise. It was, I had a d I went in, I, I went in and after I was at Med TV for a while there for five years I had the Fox stuff, the n NFL on Fox things, which was actually bigger for me than anything else. Right. being on the Sunday stuff and Super Bowls. So I went inMichael Jamin (00:08:35):And that's cause you do a killer. Madden give, give us, give us the taste of the Madden so people knowFrank Caliendo (00:08:39):What you're trying. I'm mad here for the quick pop popcorn pop. And I turned him into a character too. Like, like I was ta talking. This is, I know I go off on tangents. Just stop me. Go back. But one of the things with the Madden, you know, the, the realistic John Madden voice was this kind of voice where you, you say the things and you do the things. But I found this thing in him that was the excited little kid. Right? The . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when he would get that, that going, it was like, I was on Letterman and he had me come on as, get me come on as John Madden didn't say it was a some, I was the lead guest over Ben Stiller, I think it was. Wow. Fake John Madden Wow. Was the lead guest. And I came in and I wasn't really the lead guest, but it was, you know, I tell people, but it was a, it was so I pulled a chicken wing out of my pocket.(00:09:29):I had them get me a chicken wig with sauce on it and everything. I gave you hungry. He was like that right now. , how funny, can you believe this? But it was one of those things where it just, stuff would happen and the, you create the character with it. And it becomes, the funny thing is to me, that that stuff doesn't work the same on social media like TikTok or Instagram, but it might work on some YouTube stuff. Cause there's more longer form. It's, it's more of a longer form, you know, the, the platform is Right. I just didn't like that I said more and longer right. Together. I'm, I'm weird with grammar. I'm very, some things I just, like, if you noticed, I texted you, I didn't like that I put different tenses tenses in my texts and you like, you just stopped talking to at that point.(00:10:14): But when you, I dunno what they really like and on TikTok and these you know, shortform ones platforms is exact replication. They want the, what I would call more of an impersonation, right? Like they want the the, they want you to sound exactly like the person. There's no element of caricature it really, or going what I would call Dana Carvey on it, cartooning it Right. And making it bigger. They're like, ah, that's not like it. Well that's the point. That's the comedic element, right? Right. That makes a good exaggeration after. Yeah, exaggeration after the initial what's the, what the word I'm looking for, the when you, when you recognition, when you get the recognition, laugh on the sound, and then you have to do something with it and make it bigger, right? You have to have more fun with it.Michael Jamin (00:11:09):But you did a post, I thought it was fascinating. I think it was on TikTok, excuse me. I think it might have been like how you do Robert Downey Jr. Or something. And you, you walk through the stages of how you approach the voice in, in pieces and then how you getFrank Caliendo (00:11:26):There. So let's, let's start with this. And this is something that you'll identify with completely as a writer and a creator. You have to find the cadence and the voice of the person not speaking in terms of tone, but the cadence, right? Yeah. How many Christopher Walkins have you heard, right? You've heard low, you've heard, hi, you've heard in the middle, in, in, in the old days, it was William. You knew who it was just by the pauses, right? So you could tell from those voices how you would write for that character. You put the point of view into those, into the song, right? What those of the, you know, into you put the lyrics into the melody. So with Robert, Danny Jr, I found that this is with other characters too. That counting can help you do it. It's better for the audience. It's not a full way to teach somebody how to do it, but it's entertaining while you do it. So Robert Downey Jr. Is after you find the pitch, or you don't even have to have the pitch first, but I'll go to the pitch cuz it's what I do. But it's one, two, pause, burp 5, 6, 7. So you find that it's 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7. And then you can just figure it out, you know? So that's, that's how you find those with Liam Neon. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. You know? So it's the beginning. That'sMichael Jamin (00:12:52):Interesting.Frank Caliendo (00:12:53):Yeah. You can do that with Jeff. Goldblum is one, two 1, 1 1. Juan, what comes after one? Think out loud. That's him one. What's, what's coming into my head? What do I hear? The voices coming at me. One, two. Yes. Here comes one, two, a little jazz. 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.Michael Jamin (00:13:17):But you talk about this, you're talking about how you approach it. It's not like you think anyone, you, it's not like you're trying to teach anybody. It's not like anyone, you think anyone can do this, do you? Because I don't think IFrank Caliendo (00:13:26):Do. I think people can find, people can find, I do think people can find it. I think people can find people can't get the, they might not be able to get the pitch, the, the, the note, but they can find the cadence. Everybody, people do itMichael Jamin (00:13:40):Forever. But you, you know, your, your throat, your mouth has a certain in your nose, like you talk. I think you're stuck kind of with the, like, I can't change my, you're stuck with the voice. I don't know how you were able to literally changeFrank Caliendo (00:13:51):The, well, you don't need to do all that stuff. You don't, you don't have to do all the, that. This is another part. The face is another part of an impression. That'sMichael Jamin (00:13:58):The sound of the com. The sound comes from inside your skull.Frank Caliendo (00:14:01):Ok. So yeah. So there, there, there are different pieces to this as well. You can close off your throat. You, you think of it, you know the Bobby character, the Howie Mandel, little bitMichael Jamin (00:14:12):Bobby.Frank Caliendo (00:14:14):So that's closing off your throat. And a lot of people can do that. But the difference is finding different levels of being able to work. It's just, it's a, it's like a muscle, right? Right. So I'll do, I've done this, you might have seen this before, but this is John C. Riley is in here. So John C. Riley has just a little bit of bubble in his throat. Now if you work backwards, a tiny hole, ker frog, that's a little bit more up in here, re tiny Hall Kermit, you're reporting from the planet COOs. Then bring it down a little bit, Nelson your throat a little bit more. You add some air and it becomes Mark. I, I see this as an absolute win, guys. ThisMichael Jamin (00:14:51):That's exactly it. ThisFrank Caliendo (00:14:52):Is, this is crazy. And then, so for Ruff, he is got that thing where I think he had like a, a tumor or something, some, some medical thing when he was younger. And part of his f it was the same with like Stallone, Stallone had Bell's palsy, right? So he is got that, you know, that thing that, right? So if you find, I call it the pizza slice, you've probably seen the thing I did this. It's a triangle. It's a line across the eyebrows, a.in the, in the chin. And it's the triangle that goes down. There are two things. Now, this is stuff I'm actually gonna dos and Instagram on as well, but it's I just am too lazy. And it's, the mouth tells you how the person talks.Michael Jamin (00:15:33):UhhuhFrank Caliendo (00:15:34):. So if you watch my mouth, that's why everybody does a Donald Trump, right? When they do a Donald Trump, you have to do the lips. The lips are very, very, that's very. But now this part of my face from those down is doing Donald Trump. Now when the eyes start going, it sh now that's the point of view that starts. Same with the bush. Bush is, you know, I could do this thing with this half smile. It's like somebody told me a dirty joke before I came up here, but that's just, that's from nose down. But now I get a little discombobulate and you know, I'm staring into the, the abbu, you know, that's what it was also a great movie. So it's, and then the point of view comes from the way you think. Right? But you, when you write a character, when you write a character, you become that character when you write, I don't know if I'm stirring batter or what. Yeah. But if you're doing a cooking show and you're stirring the batter, but your character, you haveMichael Jamin (00:16:32):To, yeah, we would, for example, on King Hill, we would imitate Bobby Hill or Hank or whatever. But imitating is not sounding, you know, it's not sounding like,Frank Caliendo (00:16:40):Yeah. It's just, that's just taking it another level. You, you, you just take it. You get, because you had the cadence of the character. You might not have had the note, but you had the notes written. You didn't have them on the stop, but you knew if it was an eighth note, a quarter note, whatever, a, a rest. And I only know a little bit about music and that's all of it that I just told you.Michael Jamin (00:17:00):But did you, as a kid, did you, like, did you, were you good at this as a kid? Did you wanna aspire? Did you aspire to this?Frank Caliendo (00:17:06):I think I was pretty good at it. I, I have a natural knack and my kids have the knack too. So you have to have a, a knack at the beginning to figure this stuff out from the beginning Right. To, you know, it's predator of the infrared going. I see everything. My son had Bell's Palsy when he was very little. And I, I could see that when he would smile. This is a, the blessing and a curse thing. And when he would smile, he wouldn't smile all at the same time. And then I started to look closely and part of his face moved a lot slower and didn't always move. And I said to, to my wife, I go, something happened. I don't know what it is, but I think he had Bell's Palsy. Well, we had him tested to make sure there was no brain stuff going on or whatever.(00:17:47):But the doctors, what the diagnosis eventually was Bell. He had Bell's Palsy when he was a baby. Right. And it, you know, pa what happens is Bell's Palsy is, I think the fifth I, I don't remember what it was, the fifth or seventh cranial nerve. Something gets damaged either by a virus or trauma, blood trauma. And it keeps you from everything moving at the same time. But that's, but I could see it. Most people don't see it. I could see it because that's the way my brain breaks things down. Yeah. I mean, you as a writer, as a performer, whatever, however you consider, whatever you consider yourself, you do similar things. You see the world from that point of view. And that's how you write. You go, you observe, you take in, and then you replicate or create from that. Exaggeration or finding the, I I've set off Siri like nine times on my watch during this. I've never, that's never happened before.Michael Jamin (00:18:50):I Yeah, I, I say mean things to her. I and I and my wife says it's not good because Apple's picking up on this , like I say awful things to Siri. So, you know, like, Siri, you asshole. What time is it? She don't say that.Frank Caliendo (00:19:08):I'm sure it could be much worse.Michael Jamin (00:19:10):Yeah, it is much worse. I'm cleaning it upFrank Caliendo (00:19:11):For the podcast. Yeah. You were just trying not to get canceled.Michael Jamin (00:19:14):Yeah. Yeah. .Frank Caliendo (00:19:15):Yeah. So there, so there are lots of, yeah, I, I, I see. I look at these thi these things in, in lots of different ways. For me, you know, one of the things that, one of the things when I first got on social media in the last couple years, a few years ago mm-hmm. . Cause I wasn't doing any, cuz I was on Twitter 10 years ago. AndMichael Jamin (00:19:35):Why did I started finding, started my goal on social media. Why did you start?Frank Caliendo (00:19:38):Well, you have to. I mean, if you, if you, the first time it, it was because it was new and people were telling me I didn't like it. I just, I don't like it. I, I, I, I can't, I can't adapt it because people are angry for the most part. And there's a lot ofMichael Jamin (00:19:54):Yes. Tell me about it.Frank Caliendo (00:19:56):Is it, yeah. Right, right. And there's a lot of what confirmation bias. So there's confirmation bias mm-hmm. and the exact opposite. Right? So people either wanna hear exactly what they're thinking and they don't wanna have a conversation about something different. Mm-Hmm. . Or they just wanna fight you for no reason. They wanna troll you. They just wanna, they wanna make you mad. And especially somebody like you or somebody like me that's been in the entertainment business, we targets. Because if we say something back that's mean. Oh, the guy from Glen Martin dvsMichael Jamin (00:20:27):. Well, they don't, they don't. No one's ever heard of that. I know. But, but you're right. I don't, I don't respond anymore because there's just no winning it. There'sFrank Caliendo (00:20:35):No winning. It can't win. Cause because you are, it would be like, this is an exaggeration, but it'd be like a leader being a leader of a country. And this is, but this is what Trump does or did though, right? Uhhuh, . . And you would come back at people and you'd go think, ah, you gotta stay above that. At a certain point it's fu it, it quote unquote. It could be funny in and this isn't a political rant, this is just what I see as an observation. Mm-Hmm. it can be funny in of somebody running for president, but as soon as they're president you kind of feel like you're Yeah. I think, I think it's time to be a little different. You can, that's my opinion. ButMichael Jamin (00:21:08):No, you're absolutely right. I told, but, but, and that's what's so interesting about it, is because social media, at least when I started doing it, like at first, it's a little empowering. You have an audience and you can, you have an, you have a platform. But then once you start getting trolled and, and I, as a comedy writer, I feel like I can tear you apart. I can tear you apart. Whoever's trolling, I don't, I'm better at this than you. But the minute I do it, I, I can't do it because then I'm, I'm then I'm the asshole. And then it, what was once empowering now becomes emasculating at the same time. It's very odd to be able to have a platform, but not causeFrank Caliendo (00:21:40):And and you can, and people can say things to you that you could never say back because they will say things that would get you as a business person canceled. Yep. It doesn't have to be racial. Or it just, they can say things that are just mean that if you say it and somebody pulls it up, they're like, look what Michael Jamin did. Yeah. This is unbelievable. Yeah. I We can't hire this guy. Yeah. He's, he's a terrible person. And they'll defend the person who's ripping you to shreds and saying way worse things. Yes. So you're stuck in, you're, you're stuck in a spot. So it, so I, I started, this is why I got away from social media 10 years ago, whatever. So I was on Twitter, I was building it really quickly with sports stuff. Mostly not video, just just kind of like sassy phrases and, you know, mean things. I, and I realized I was starting to be this person on Twitter in real life in real wayMichael Jamin (00:22:37):InFrank Caliendo (00:22:37):What I'd see somebody just, I'd see somebody and wanna say something terrible to them. Mm-Hmm. . And the only reason I would say that in Twitter, cuz my comedy's silly, not really mean uhhuh, , it's it more cherubic cuz of the cheeks. But , it was one of those things where you said mean things on Twitter, you got likes and retweets cuz people love Right. You know, knocking down people in power. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say something about a quarterback that just threw an interception. Something I could never do. I would never have, you know, that that's the level of skill to, to make it to their level. And I'm ripping them to shreds. I'm going, I, I, and I've changed this way too. I mean, I, I used to think, you know, I used to watch the Oscars and kind of rip the Oscars to shreds because it is so self-aggrandizing. It, so mm-hmm. , everybody's self-congratulatory and stuff. Like, and I would say things, I'm like, I shouldn't be saying this, that, not just because it's, you know, it's kind of gross. But it's, it's also just, I don't know, these people work very hard to get where they, you know, they're just going, some of 'em don't, you know, they're happy to be getting an award, but they have to be show up. It's part of the business. Right.(00:23:46):I get it. I, I what a jerk I am for. You know, that's why even people, people wanna do a podcast and like, let's do a podcast where we just rip movies. I'm like, I don't wanna, that's somebody's acting, somebody's put a lot of time, like my TV show. There were a lot of great people putting that stuff together. But by the time it all got put together, a network has to say other people standards and practices, all these different levels, it's not really what you want it to be. And it's not any one person's fault. It's just not what you want it to be. And that person is, but, you know, that's why it's so amazing when somebody does do something really great, you're going, wow, you watch a, a Tarantino film or something like that. He's a guy who just fights for all his own stuff.(00:24:32):He's gonna do it his way. Right. But you watch a, you watch a film with somebody who does Jordan Peele now right. Who actually got to work with a man TV years ago. People get to a point where they have their point of view and they can make closer to the movie that they want to make. And then you go, okay, when this turns out, this is, this is fantastic. This is how you do it. Because when you don't have that much, say you don't have that much power and you don't have that much fight in you, it's, it's really hard to get close to what you want. And there were so many things in my show mm-hmm. that were close to what I wanted. But that little bit of change just goes. And there were three little changes. You go, oh, the timing's not what I would've done there. They used a cut I never would've used. Right. And now they put it in a different part of the show. Wow. Oh man. So then I know that happens everybody,Michael Jamin (00:25:27):But I have to ask, so then why do you do, why are you on social media? Because you, you have quite a big presence on it. So what's,Frank Caliendo (00:25:33):You go in, you go into an somebody's office, an executive's office. The first thing they do is look how many this, what are you doing here? What do you do? They reallyMichael Jamin (00:25:43):Say, say that toFrank Caliendo (00:25:44):You. Oh yeah, I've had plenty. The people look at me. It'sMichael Jamin (00:25:47):Because what they don't, I feel like they don't understand is the change in the algorithm, which is maybe only a few months old, but they don't un do they understand when you talk to them that having a million followers on Instagram or TikTok, you can't reach them all on any given day. You reach maybe a 10th of them, you know.Frank Caliendo (00:26:03):Well, you don't even reach that. I mean, people don't, so again, people the way it's been explained to me is that TikTok doesn't even really go out to yourMichael Jamin (00:26:15):Followers anymore. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.Frank Caliendo (00:26:17):It go, it goes out to a random sample audience, which has mm-hmm. some of your followers in it. And then once it hits that first audience, if enough people watch it long enough or watch it to the end, it gets, then it goes to the next sampleMichael Jamin (00:26:30):Audience. Yes. Right.Frank Caliendo (00:26:31):So if you go to a bad, I I,Michael Jamin (00:26:34):But that's also Instagram. Now that's kind of this, they're they're taking the same model. TheFrank Caliendo (00:26:38):The real stuff. Yeah. Well, because, and the reason that works for them is because they, they can build stars faster that way they can build. So it used to be on Instagram, it would take you years if you weren't famous mm-hmm. to get to a point where you had 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 followers. Well now people can just vertically swipe through reels and all of a sudden the, those people who do that are tend to follow a lot more people. Right. So your videos can go viral with no followers. Right. And then suddenly you'll have followers. It didn't used to work like that it used to.Michael Jamin (00:27:15):Exactly. So that's why I'm asking lots of followers. Do they know, do you think the executives know that? Cause they look at your numbers and like go, oh, Frank's got a big following. But do they know that you canFrank Caliendo (00:27:23):I don't. I think they're a little, I think yes and no. But again, it works to, in their favor that if you have videos that have a lot of numbers mm-hmm. do, because then you're hitting an audience. They know you're hitting a pretty big audience that spreads it to other people. Mm-Hmm. . Now I'm 49, I'm about to be 49. Okay? Mm-hmm. , I, my age group that I played to most, or played to the most was probably 35 to 50 in there. You know, somewhere in there somewhere that I felt like I was similar age and had similar likes and life experiences.Michael Jamin (00:28:00):Right.Frank Caliendo (00:28:00):And those people, that group of people doesn't tend to hit the light button or the retweet button as much. I know I don't. Right. Right. Kids send it, they direct message stuff to their friends. They send things to their f they then they tag other people. They tag lots of people. Yeah. And that's why network executives, producers advertisers like young audiences, not just to sell the products to, but they're the ones that spread the word. Right. And they know that. They know it. It kind of works. You know, I always, I never really thought about that or I never really believed them with that. You know, I've changed brands on a lot of stuff. I've changed toothpaste, I've changed all kinds of things. Right. I don't think I'm normal. I, I, I, I guess I'm not, but young people will try different things and they will do lots of different things at a much higher rate. AndMichael Jamin (00:28:54):So interesting. Do you feel then, as a performer that, okay, so you kind of have to do this. You're a little bit, you know, could you do it what, every day? Right? How many times do you post a day?Frank Caliendo (00:29:05):I don't, I don't even post that much. I, I'll post like a, a week. Once a week or once. Oh, half the time. It's half the time. It's old stuff that I've already Interesting. Like the thing, I have something with 8 million views right now from like a couple weeks ago. Wow. That I've posted two times before. Yeah. And it's gotten a million views and 2 million views and maybe 30,000 views. Oh. Which hits exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. If it doesn't hit the, I have, I have two pieces of advice. A couple pieces of advice for your content, please. I, I would not end my pieces telling people to go see, go. Don't, I wouldn't waste the time in the, in the, in the post telling people for more, if you like stuff like this. Go see, go did Michael Jam writer what, you know, your website, stuff like that. Right. I would just put it in writing near the end. Yeah. On the screen. Because then it's there a little bit subliminally. And they don't have to wait for the, because if they've heard you, if they like your posts and they watch you all the time, they know that's the end of your post. They'll cut out early.Michael Jamin (00:30:10):Interesting. So you're saying put But if I put it up on there, cause I, I do this to get people on my newsletter Right. To, you know, cuz that you get their, but you're saying if I, if I just say it'sFrank Caliendo (00:30:20):Up to say at the end, you spend two to three seconds going. Right. If you like what I said right. Go to Michael Jamin, Robert Writer what is it? Michael jaminMichael Jamin (00:30:28):Michaeljamin.Com/Watchlist is my newsletterFrank Caliendo (00:30:30):Slash watch. Okay. So if you, if you like what you've heard, go to Michael Jamin slash wa slash slash watchlist stuff like this and other things that I gotta Now now they've got, now you've, now you've given them a little piece, which is what's everybody telling you to do? They all tell you well get the call for action. Yeah. But if they've seen your post and they like your posts, they don't need that anymore. Right.Michael Jamin (00:30:53):What if they're brand new? What if they'reFrank Caliendo (00:30:54):Brand new? If they're brand new, you put it, you just put it up on the screen. You put it up on IMichael Jamin (00:30:58):The screen. What do I put on the screen?Frank Caliendo (00:30:59):On the screen? You just write it on the screen. Yeah. Say like more stuff like this.Michael Jamin (00:31:03):Oh, okay. For the whole thing. For more. Okay.Frank Caliendo (00:31:05):Or, or in the last, the last third of what you say. Okay. Just have it up there. And in the, because you do that, you can try, you can, you can experiment and do it both. Do it, do say it sometimes put it up on the screen. Do both mm-hmm. sometimes just put, put it at the end and, and test it. Yeah. Because I could be, I can be wrong. I can be wrong here. But I'm telling you, I watched to the end of yours because I know because I want yours to do well, Uhhuh, , I'll do it, but I'm tempted as soon as you go into that mm-hmm. , I tempted to flip up andMichael Jamin (00:31:39):All right. What,Frank Caliendo (00:31:40):What I found with my stuff, if I introduce things, sometimes people don't even wanna see me introduce it. I just put the title of what I'm doing on the screen.Michael Jamin (00:31:49):Uhhuh ,Frank Caliendo (00:31:50):I don't tell you, you know, I don't tell you what I'm doing. I put the title on the screen to tell you what I'm doing and I get right into it. Right. Unless it's a reply to somebody's if somebody's, then I read their reply a little bit. Right. So they have the visual and you're reading the reply and you're saying something at the same time. So they're kind going back and forth. And then you do, you cut and do what they're saying. What is, what is your other, very quickly,Michael Jamin (00:32:16):What is your other tip for me? Is there anything else? I'll listen in. I don't know if my reader Yeah. What cutsFrank Caliendo (00:32:26):I would cut, I would cut a lot. You don't cut much. Oh, oh,Michael Jamin (00:32:30):Oh.Frank Caliendo (00:32:31):Visually you do, you do things in one.Michael Jamin (00:32:33):Yeah. No. You know why? Because I just don't wanna produce anything. I don't wanna spend time. Right.Frank Caliendo (00:32:36):I get it. I get it. I get, I get it. And, and, but like a friend, somebody I know used to work at YouTube and they're like, just cut, just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And you don't even have to really produce it. All you have to do is just splice, splice, splice slightly. Make things bigger and smaller. You don't even really cut any air out. But I, if, if you look at, if you look, you just put it in iMovie or they actually have it in there. Now. If you don't even, you don't evenMichael Jamin (00:33:01):Too much word.Frank Caliendo (00:33:02):I get it. If you watch most of my stuff that's new. There is no real effort into writing it. , Uhhuh. It's just saying words over and over.Michael Jamin (00:33:13):. Right. It's,Frank Caliendo (00:33:15):I won't put the time. Now what I'm starting to do is go back, like you said, let's talk about the Seinfeld thing. When I put the Seinfeld thingMichael Jamin (00:33:21):Out, and that was from Frankie. OhFrank Caliendo (00:33:23):Right. That was from, and it was critically panned. Like it's terrible. Like critics told me it was awful.Michael Jamin (00:33:28):. Ok. I liked it.Frank Caliendo (00:33:30):Yeah. And it's even cut even shorter. It's, it's even, I think the full things like pretty good. There was one of the things I was the most proud of, Uhhuh or the proudest of. And but it's one of those things where , it's so funny cuz it really does look like a South Park version cuz I'm so fat. At the time we made it that it's that, that it just looks like, I call it sign fat. Right. But it was weird cuz if I had guest stars on the show, it would, it would even make it tougher for disbelief, you know, suspending belief or di is it suspending belief or suspending disbelief.Michael Jamin (00:34:03):Suspending disbelief.Frank Caliendo (00:34:05):So, okay, so, so you,Michael Jamin (00:34:07):Yeah. So you're not disbelieving it,Frank Caliendo (00:34:09):Right? So you suspend your disbelief when you see somebody, all the characters look kind of the same. It fits, but all of a sudden you have somebody that looks more like the person because they're skinnier or something like that. A sudden it looks up like, but that Seinfeld thing, it was actually from my, my act was my, the way I did it in my act was I tried to, I always trying to think for the impressions. And so my, my thinking of the Seinfeld bit and my act was Seinfeld is about nothing. It's about reality. It's about everything that happens a reality. Well, what takes you outta reality? So it was drugs. Mm-Hmm. . So I thought put Seinfeld on drugs. And the, the, the bit was why do my fingers look like little people? Who are these people? They doing, they're talking to each other.(00:34:54):They're probably talking about me when I say Jerry, oh, somebody. Hey Jerry, you look like you've been seeing little people on your fingers. That's great. You just let that cat. And then at the end it was Newman and Newman's like, hello Jerry, hello Newman. And she would've lost a sort of Jerry Garcia grateful dead commitment of stamps. She would see them baby . So he'd licked the stamps. You know, that was the bit. So there was reality and it turned back into AED episode. But the whole bit was instead of reality, how do I get into a fantasy world? And that was the easiest way to to, to(00:35:28):Do it. Right.Michael Jamin (00:35:31):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.(00:35:54):It's fucking, your voices are amazing. I mean, that sounds amazing. But tell me, I have another question up for you. I'm just, I'm curious, I know you're, I actually wanna mention this, so I know you're, you, you got two shows coming up in, in Phoenix, right? Yeah. Where you do, where you go and it stand up, you're doing voices as well, or like, right? OrFrank Caliendo (00:36:11):Yeah. I, I just, what I do is, I'm, I, so what I, what I like to do is, I always hated the vaudevillian impressionist Uhhuh . What if,Michael Jamin (00:36:21):Oh yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:36:23):You know, what if Carrie Grant was your waiter, well, why, why would he be, first of all, that's bad writing, right? ,Michael Jamin (00:36:32):Why would he be your waiter? WhyFrank Caliendo (00:36:33):Would he be a waiter? Remember, years ago, I think it was on the white was it the white album? The that Dennis Miller did? Uhhuh . He's like . He was like and these impressionist, I think Jack Nicholson as a fry cook at McDonald's. I mean, how about you as a fry cook at McDonald's? Chachi, get some writing. You know? So it was it was, I was always like, I wanna write for these characters. So what do would I do? I would make observations. So the way, and that would give me my point of view. So Pacino, he's an actor, right? So I was like, what do act what do they teach you in acting? Be curious. Be amazed by everything. So the simplest thing, Pacino can be amazed. Like somebody's turning on a light. He's like, wait a second, you mean to tell me you flip a switch over there? A light comes on over here. Wow. . So he's amazed by everything. That's the point, right? And that's what my Pacino character always was. And he, and chewing gum. So that'sMichael Jamin (00:37:34):Dead onFrank Caliendo (00:37:34):Man. It's make those, make those observations and then apply them in situations later. So it's observational comedy, but I was just observing how people were. Robert Downey Jr. Is a human. Twitter feed, 280 characters are less and everything's about himself. So he'd give, be giving out an Academy Award, which is supposed to be about the nominees, but the, but he'd be up there like, these people deserve your applause almost as much as I do. Hashtag awesome. So it's, that's the point of view, right? Set it up. That's funny. Bring it back. So once you have that, now you can, now the audience is in on what your point of view is. Now you can put them in situations, which is really what you do with characters in writing. You know, any kind of sitcom or any kind of a, any, you know, any kind of drama, anything.(00:38:25):It just takes longer to get them to who the character is an impression most of the time, and this is why impressions are cut away from acting so much where people think there's no acting in impressions because it's just, you know, somebody, there was Robert De and they work on, are you talking to me? Well, where's the, where's the writing for that? It's the vallian part, right? Come up with something that tells you who the character is. Right. And now write for it. And now it's an interesting character. And that's what you know any type of original character, it just takes longer to get there. And that's why a pilot, right? A television pilot, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you do this more than me. Let's see. There's a lot more exposition and telling, kind of telling people, okay, hey, I'm just your local waitress. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And they tell you a little bit because they have to do it to get it done. To get it sold. Yeah. And then once it's, once you kind of have it, now you can develop the characters and you have, you have arcs that can build the character to something longer. Yeah. And that's why a lot of pilots get rewritten and redone because the pilot's almost a presentation just to sell it. And it's almost two on the nose. It's a to be what you want.Michael Jamin (00:39:40):But tell me what it's like when you do, like, when you go do a show or two shows, like literally, what is that? Like? You get on a plane, you arrive a couple days before your show, likeFrank Caliendo (00:39:51):The day, usually a day off, the day of just get there. YouMichael Jamin (00:39:55):Do a sound check or no, you just go up on stage likeFrank Caliendo (00:39:58):A theater. I'm probably have the guy opening for me do a sound check. I don't, I don't even, I just go out there and show up and head so I have more energy. I mean, it's just, I like to get out there and just start going. I have a plan. Uhhuh, I have a lot of stuff that I've, I will do that I've done, you know, that I've worked on and done before. But now I try to, I actually like to do clubs a lot more than theaters. Why is that? Because I get to play more and I don't feel, I feel like somebody goes to the theater, you know, they, you feel like they, even though they're not, you feel like it should be a little bit more put together and professional. I feel like at a club, it can,Michael Jamin (00:40:34):A club, you can get heckled. They're not necessarily coming to see you. If you go to a theater, they're coming. They're paying seeFrank Caliendo (00:40:40):Me, 90, 99%. They come to see me at a club. Now if I'm doing a club, yeah. Cuz I'll do like off nights. I'll do like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. The, the general audience isn't going for that. And tickets will sell in advance. I mean, it, it's, that's, that's what I, that's what I likeMichael Jamin (00:40:57):To do. Is, is it theater though? More, more seats usually.Frank Caliendo (00:41:00):Yeah. It's harder to sell. 'em, You, you've gotta figure you're gonna sell. Probably you can probably, cuz people are, they're trained to go to a club and you'll get some people that fill other seats and it'll, it'll snowball. People will talk about it more. Uhhuh . And they have a built in advertising in everybody who goes to that venue. Three or four, you know, five shows a week.Michael Jamin (00:41:20):Interesting.Frank Caliendo (00:41:20):Sees that you're gonna to be there. And they're a comedy audience already. A theater doesn't necessarily have a builtin comedy audience. It might be that's 9%.Michael Jamin (00:41:31):But they're not coming in a comedy club. They might be drunk, they might be hostile, they may heckle. They're not, they're, it'sFrank Caliendo (00:41:38):Not, not, it's not as bad anymore. It's, it, yeah. Most of the clubs are that that's, that's kind of a nineties early two thousands as maybe eighties type of thing. It, that doesn't happen as much anymore because they have so much riding on everything. The clubs used to be, they would you just go there and do a nightclub set and they, they, they'd turn 'em in and out, two drinks, four drinks, and get 'em in and out. Now they're selling them dinner. Uhhuh, they, they, they realize they were given away the five, they were, they're restaurants now that have entertainment. Right. Because they would, they would bring everybody in and nobody, they would give everybody else all the food and beverage around the showtime. And they would, they were realized, well we can do this too. And some of 'em do it. Really,Michael Jamin (00:42:21):Really. But they're not eating during the show. You don't want the meeting show.Frank Caliendo (00:42:24):Yeah, they're,Michael Jamin (00:42:24):Yeah. Yeah. They're, and you're hearing like the silverware and stuff?Frank Caliendo (00:42:27):Yeah, it's, it's, it's usually more of a finger food. But they're, yeah. They're, they're so are some that have full-on, you know, but that, that a lot of that happens during the opener or mc too. By the time I'm up, they're, they're, they're a drinking and they're warmed up and they're, they've gotten their food already.Michael Jamin (00:42:45):And then do you travel with their, with your, with your opener Or is it a local guyFrank Caliendo (00:42:50):Or one? I bring people with me because I know what they're doing. , Uhhuh, . I, I, I'm, I'm a control freak in terms of what's on before me. Right. Because I'm very clean. Even when I try to be dirty, it doesn't work because people wanna see me for being clean. Right. but I've had, I, you know, an opener thinks they're clean and you, you know, I only say that word once, like, wow, that's too many times for some of my audience. Right. Or they, they, they, they, they're not expecting it. Cause they've been there to see me before and I'm the one who's gonna get the emails in the club is. And so I just bring people that I know are gonna play and then I don't have to watch the set over and over and over.Michael Jamin (00:43:31):And then you, and then after you'll you how many shows?Frank Caliendo (00:43:35):Two is the most I'll doing at night, but I'd rather just do one. Right.Michael Jamin (00:43:39):It's exhausting. It's exhausting to hold that kind of attention for pe to people.Frank Caliendo (00:43:43):Yeah, it is. And I just have the point where I, I do it and I have, when I have fun doing it mm-hmm. , that's when I go up and do it. And if I go up and I'm creating some, I'm having fun. If I'm doing an old set just for money and not creating, I'm not having fun. And that happened to me for five to 10 years where I was just doing the same thing all the time. I was making a ton of money Uhhuh. But I think some of my audience got like, well you're doing the same exact set. And it was just going, kind of going through the motions. And I, that wasn't a great time for myself for, you know, me personally. Not like I had anything wrong with family or anything. Like I just wasn't having fun doing the comedy.Michael Jamin (00:44:24):AndFrank Caliendo (00:44:24):Then weMichael Jamin (00:44:25):Will you leave the next day or what, what or I don't wanna cut off. IFrank Caliendo (00:44:28):I used to leave the next morning, first flight to try and get home. Cause I have two little kids right at the time. Two little kids now. They don't like me that much anymore, so. Right. I don't mind going away for a little Do you have kids?Michael Jamin (00:44:39):I do, but they're grown. Yeah. They'reFrank Caliendo (00:44:41):In college. Yeah. So, so you know that, I mean, when they're little, I was missing a lot cuz I was working a lot when they were little. I'd be on the road for a couple weeks at a time. I didn't see my son's first steps. I mean, I just, I didn't like that kinda stuff. SoMichael Jamin (00:44:56):But you knew going into it, when you went to comedy, you knew that that's, that's what the life is gonna be like, right? Or No? Were you surprised? Yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:45:03):But you kind of assume you're gonna go you, you know, you Yes, yes. You do know. But you're also thinking maybe I'll land a TV show, Uhhuh , maybe I'll do, you know, you, you, I don't, and I didn't plan, I didn't plan in the terms of that. But listen, I don't have to work. I honestly don't have to work anymore. I really don't. I I'm, I'm at a point where I don't, so I do things that I really want to. Right. And I, you know, the NFL on Fox stuff, because I was associated with a NFL Hall of Famers and stuff. Like, I do big corporate shows for, you know, oh, do you? For the biggest, for the biggest companies in the world, Uhhuh. And that's, that's what I do. People, you know, I, you, you see one date on the you know, on my public dates, because I live in Phoenix, I don't have to go anywhere.(00:45:52):So I'm just gonna do it. I can do, I can go do it and I can, I can be home. People are asking me to do shows all the time. I'm like and also do a run of one night at different clubs so I can, I don't like looking at the same back of the room for, you know, five or six days. You know, three, four days, five shows. I just, I don't enjoy. So I don't do it. Right. I I I try to do the things now that I like to do. Michael Jamin (00:46:19):I didn't know your feet,Frank Caliendo (00:46:20):So I've saved a lot of money.Michael Jamin (00:46:22):How are you getting acting gigs in if you're all, if you're outFrank Caliendo (00:46:24):There? Well, have you seen me in anything? I don'tMichael Jamin (00:46:27):. That's why.Frank Caliendo (00:46:29):Well, yeah. I don't, I, I don't I go, I go out to la I'll, I'll do some stuff on tape and things like that. Uhhuh , and people ask for me. But I, I, I, you know, yeah, there's, people call me now and I'll get people are like, Hey, will you do this? I'm like, yeah, if I don't have to do it, yeah. Yeah. I just go do it. And I was like, yeah. Like, I just did something recently that was a, a Zoom thing. Like it was actually Zoom in a movie, like a small, you know, like a, a Netflix kinda thing. Like, they're like, you can, you can, you don't even have to come here, you can just do a Zoom thing. And we made, it made the part became bigger. Right. Cause we, you know, I I I call it being serious to the point of being funny where you're just so serious. It's Will, will Ferrell does it really, really well. Right, right. Where you're so serious that it becomes funny. I that's what I, that's the comedy I like. I don't like hail I paid. Right, right.Michael Jamin (00:47:22):Here'sFrank Caliendo (00:47:23):My testicles. That's not the kind of comedy I really like, but it's, a lot of times it's what you have to do to get like the, the funniest thing to me. I like that really uncomfortable stuff in serious. So, better Call Saul, you, are you a fan of that show? Yeah,Michael Jamin (00:47:40):Yeah,Frank Caliendo (00:47:40):Yeah. I like that. Mike Erman Trout.Michael Jamin (00:47:42):Yeah,Frank Caliendo (00:47:43):He's great. Will just odenkirk they will crack me up because it's not, they're not doing anything big and funny per se. They're just in a really awkward situation. But it's, the stakes are so high and it's really important. La Los Salam, monka, you know, it's like, yeah.(00:48:04):All these things are so, like, and stuff Brian Cranston would do on breaking Bad. And you'd watch them and you'd go, ah, like, I'd like to go. God, you're good. I go, that's the stuff that when somebody's just the character and I go, I, I was watching billions. I watched Billions and I started watching Paul Giamati and that's why I started doing that impression, just because I'm like, he's so good. And he's so, I believe these are ways, like, he's just so, like, the intensity and you, you know, you kind of know where he is going before he does, and then he can zig or zag and that's what makes him great. Cause you think you got him pinned down and you're like, oh.Michael Jamin (00:48:51):But, so what's interesting I'm hearing is that, so you have a platform, a stage where you can write, perform pretty much whatever you want to do, but at this point you kind of want someone else just to write for you. And I, I'll, I'll be, I'll just act, you know,Frank Caliendo (00:49:04):That's more of a, and I'll add my pieces if, if that's what you want. Like, I'll add a little flair or that, that's really more what I do wanna do. Yeah. I mean it's, it's, I dunno, I don't want the, this is gonna sound terrible, but it, I, maybe it is, maybe, but after having a couple shows that I developed or, you know, development deals that just fell apart and weren't what I wanted them to be. Mm-Hmm. , I just wanna be in somebody else's who's a real good fighter and go, let's work together. I like being part of a team. Right. And I don't wanna be on a team where somebody wants to do something completely different than me. Right. I don't wanna do that. But if somebody's in the same, in the, in the same wavelength and they're going, and you, you know when that is, can you just start having fun?(00:49:52):You go, that's what I was gonna say. And then you, you do it and they're like, I, I know. Don't even say it. I'm gonna do exactly what you're about to say. Mm-Hmm. , this is it. Don't worry if I don't, we'll shoot it again, but I know what you're gonna say right here. Cuz I saw the light bulb go on with you as soon as it on with me. Here we go. Right. So, yeah. I, that's, I wanna, I wanna be a part of somebody else's thing. That's really, and, and when people think of me, they think I wanna be a one man band. I didn't even wanna be a one man band on my own show. I, I, I, I just, right. I don't know. I, I like being something, I like being part of something bigger. And it doesn't, agents don't always understand that either, because agents a lot of the time, like, you could, you should do your own thing. I'm like, but if I do my own thing, then it's just about me. I'm sick of it being about me. How about it is about,Michael Jamin (00:50:41):I'll tell you this cuz this gets back to Spade, but I'm just, shoot me. He didn't wanna be on screen. If he wasn't, he wanted to hit a home run, walk off, stay stage. I mean, that was it. He didn't need to hang around. He didn't need to count lines, he didn't need to have storylines. He's like, no, just lemme hit a couple home runs and I'll, you know, I'll do what I need to do and then leave.Frank Caliendo (00:50:59):And, you know, and, and you and you're, you're better like that. You're, you're better because you don't look like you're hanging around you. People can't wait to see you come in. Yeah. People know that your part's going to be fun. Now everybody can't be that. You have to have people that are going to drive the show. Right. Right. Arthur on king of Queens. Mm-Hmm. , you know, he is gonna come in from the base and be like, I had no idea this was gonna be this way. By the way, he had one of the greatest Jerry Stiller came up me, I did the Seinfeld bit Montreal at the Montreal Comedy Festival. Uhhuh . Jerry Stiller comes up to me afterward and it's the greatest. Like, this is awesome. He goes, you know, I really enjoyed your show, especially the portion. And I was like, oh, that is, oh, thank you Mr. Stiller. He's like, now could you tell me where the bathroom is? ?Michael Jamin (00:51:49):HeFrank Caliendo (00:51:49):Just wanted to know,Michael Jamin (00:51:50):SaidFrank Caliendo (00:51:51):You just wanted to know when the bathroom was . And that was, I told j I told Ben Stiller that I told him that at, it was, I think it was after his father pass away. I did a show called Birthday Boys. And it was actually, it was, it was really a funny thing. But it was, he was playing a Robin Williams type teacher, dead poet society kind of teacher. Ben Stiller was, who was directed by Bob. Bob. Bob Odenkirk is directing it as a guest director. But it was so awesome. Yeah. see, there's go sir. So I, I, I told, I told that Ben Stiller just the moment he heard it, he's like, , like, like he was almost embarrassed. That's my dad. Like, that's just my dad being my dad. Like, I've been there, man. But I, I remember in that, that was one of my favorite things too. Well the, the thing they wrote is why I wanna tell you this too, was the bit they wrote was he's this, like I said, this dead poet society kind of teacher. But he's going, you know, he's, he's teaching outside the box and he's supposed to be teaching the Diary of Anne Frank, but he's teaching the Diary of Frank Kelly instead .Michael Jamin (00:53:02):Right. It's funny.Frank Caliendo (00:53:03):And, and it's, you know, it's a joke of making fun of me, but I was like, God, just to be in this joke. And Bob Oden is directing and Ben still is doing it. The birthday boys wrote it. It's like, oh. And I made Stiller laugh. Cause when Odenkirk kind of went off the script, he's like, just, he's having Mr. Stiller. No, he's having Ben just tell me. He's like okay. Adam Sandler at a, at a funeral. And I was like, oh grandma, where did you have leave? Where were you? I leaving And then Ben starts cracking up. He's like, I can't go. I can't go out. He stopped. He stopped. And I go, I just, Ben laugh on the set. Oh. I go, this is the greatest day of my life. And Stiller is like, let's get going. You know? He's like, no, he was, he was great. But it was so funny too cause it was a moment for me, like, oh, this is one of the people I look up to is one of the great reactors. Yeah. Like Ben Stiller as funny as he could be presenting somethi

SUPER CROSSTALK with TRAVIS and SLIWA - It's FRIDAY the 13th or as we call it EFF IT FRIDAY! The Lakers lost in OT but the Defense was not on point and then refs were bad. Also, friend of the show Brian Cranston calls in to talk about his 2nd season of Your Honor. WHEEL OF QUESTIONS - if you are a business owner and you have a customer that is not satisfied how do you deal with it? And Mason says he has a problem with his jacuzzi and he is seeking help to repair it ASAP! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bryan Cranston recently shared a story about losing his virginity to an Austrian Prostitute on “Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend” podcast.

It's time for another Christmas movie! And this one actually came out in December! It's the "classic" Disney Channel Original Movie starring Brian Cranston... 'Twas the Night. Cranston plays Nick, a scam artist who's on the run. He and his nephew steal Santa's sleigh and go do some crimes while learning lessons along the way. Listen in as we go way too in-depth about all the various Santa tech they introduce in this movie!Join the Bad Porridge Club on Patreon for TWO bonus episodes each month! https://www.patreon.com/oldiebutagoodiepodFollow the show!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oldiebutagoodiepod/Facebook: https://fb.me/oldiebutagoodiepodYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfdXHxK_rIUsOEoFSx-hGAPodcast Platforms: https://linktr.ee/oldiebutagoodiepodGot feedback? Send us an email at oldiebutagoodiepod@gmail.comFollow the hosts!Sandro Falce - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sandrofalce/- Twitter: https://twitter.com/sandrofalce- Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/SandroFalce/- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/SandroFeltChair- Aussie Nerds Talk Stuff podcast: https://anchor.fm/aussienerdstalkstuffZach Adams - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zach4dams/- Twitter: https://twitter.com/ZackoCaveWizard- Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/zach4damsOldie But A Goodie's theme tune is written and produced by Josh Cake. Check out his work here: https://www.joshcake.com/Check out other shows from our network 'That's Not Canon'! https://thatsnotcanon.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Es gibt ein neues Quiz. Und was für eins. 3 Kandidaten und ein "neuer" Quizmaster. David vom Podcast Planet der Filmaffen gibt sich die Ehre und löchert Raphael, Simon und Thomas mit Fragen über Filme und Serien!

Intro: Emceeing a memorial serviceLet Me Run This By You: Fear and the paranormalInterview: We talk to Tina Parker aka Francesca Liddy about SMU, Blake Hackler, Andre DeShields, Maria Irene Fornes' Mud, Kitchen Dog Theatre, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Robert Altman's Dr. T & the Women, Birdbath play, Perpetual Grace. FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):1 (8s):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez2 (10s):This, and I'm Gina Pulice1 (11s):We went to theater3 (12s):School together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.4 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of3 (20s):It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):So what does mean, What does it mean to mc a memorial?1 (40s):Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to call it. I I people keep it host. I'm not hosting cuz the family's hosting. So what it means is that I'm trusted, I think to not, Well one, I've done this twice, you know, I've lost both my parents. So I like know the drill about how memorials go, but also I think I'm kind of a safe person in that I will step in if someone goes kaka cuckoo at the memorial and I also have some, you know, able like, presenting skills. Yes. Right. And I'm entrusted to like guide the ship if it, and if it goes off kilter, I will say to somebody, Hey, why don't you have a seat?1 (1m 23s):This is like, we'll have time for this later if you really wanna get crazy or whatever. But that's, and I think it's just sort of steering, steering the grief ship maybe. I don't know. Yeah, look, I don't know. I like that. It's gonna be2 (1m 34s):Interesting, dude, people, Oh, honestly, they should have that for, you know, in other cultures where they have like professional grievers and professional mourners, it, it sounds a little silly, but at the same time it's like, no, this is right. Because no, we don't, we never know how to do it. Unless you've lived in a really communal environment where you, you, you, you know, you attend the rights, the ceremonies or rituals of everybody in your village, then you really don't know until, usually until it's thrust upon you. And then it's like, well, you're supposed to be grieving and then like hosting a memorial service. It's such a weird thing. So this could be another career path for you. You could be a professional, you know, funeral mc, I actually, honestly, I hate, I don't hate it.2 (2m 21s):I love it. Well,1 (2m 22s):And also could be my thank you, my rap name funeral Mc instead of like young mc funeral mc, but no. Yeah, I, I have no, and it's so interesting when it's not my own family, right? Like these are family friends, but they're not, it's not my mother who died. I don't have the attachment to I people doing and saying certain things. I don't feel triggered. Like being, I grew up a lot in this house that I'm sitting in right now, but it's not my, it was not my house. So I don't have any attachment emotionally like appendages to the items in the house where the girls do.1 (3m 2s):So I'm able to be here and, and, and be like, this is, this is, I'm okay here. I don't feel overwhelmed. And I think that is a sign that I'm doing the right thing in terms of helping out in this way if I got here and I was like, Oh my God, it's too much. But I don't feel that. And I also think that like, one of the things that I did with Nancy and Dave over the last couple years is like, they were literally the only adults. Well, I'm an adult, only older adults my parents age who are like, Yes, go to California, you need to get out of here, get away from this. They were the, so I that made me trust them. And then we stayed, we had like weekly phone conversations, just like they would each be on a line.1 (3m 46s):It was hilarious. And we would talk for hours like maybe once every two weeks, a couple hours. And it was really like a parenting experience. So I feel very close to them and I, what I'm learning is that like, even if other people have different relationships with people, you can have your own. So I know that no one's perfect, but these were allowed, like, you're allowed Gina to have your own relationship with your mom and with your even dead people than other people have.2 (4m 17s):Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Back to the plane for a minute. In these situations, what do the flight attendants do, if anything?1 (4m 28s):Oh, well I always talked to them before because I, so what I say, I always like to, because Dave, who's, who's a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, he said, Listen, you know, he used to be afraid. And he said his thing was talking to the flight attendants before and just saying like, Hey, I have a phobia. I'm a therapist. I'm working through it. Like just to make contact, right. I don't, I didn't say that exactly, but what I said was, Listen, I say, Hi, how are you? We struck up a strike up, a teeny conversation in that moment where I'm going to my seat and I say, Listen, I'm going to Chicago to like mc a memorial for like someone who's like my mom. So if you see me, so if you see me crying like it's normal. And they're like, Oh, thanks for telling me. And they're, they usually don't get freaked out.1 (5m 11s):I'm also not like intense about it. They do nothing. And you know what they, I think and, and she said, Thanks for telling me. I really appreciate it. Because I think they'd rather know what the fuck is going on with someone than thinking someone's about to hijack the goddamn plane.2 (5m 29s):Exactly. I was thinking that exact same thing. I was thinking like, especially right now, all they know is it's heightened emotion or it's not, you know, like they, they, they have no, they would have no way of differentiating, you know, what's, what's safe and what's dangerous. So I can't believe nobody's ever done this before. But we, another project that we could do is like airplane stories. I mean there is such, this is one of the few points of connection that humanity still has people that is who can afford to you fly a plane anywhere. But this thing of like, it sucks and it's dirty and it's growth and people, people's, you know, hygiene comes into question and if they're sitting next to you and it's uncomfortable and it's not the glamorous thing that it used to be even when we were kids.2 (6m 21s):So it's, it's one of those moments unless you have a private plane where you're sort of forced to reckon with like the same thing that everybody else in humanity has to reckon with. But even on a private plane, and I would argue even especially on a private plane, there is the fear of your imminent death. Like the, the, it doesn't matter if you're afraid of flying or not, it crosses your mind.1 (6m 42s):Well, yeah. And I, my whole thing is like, I, I don't know what would happen if we all started talking about that on a plane. So like what would that be like? So, okay, when I was traveling last with home from San Francisco with Miles, I sat next to this woman, Miles was in the middle and the woman on the aisle was this woman. We were both afraid. And we had this idea for a fricking television show, right? Which was two, it's called the Fearful Flyers and then two people on each side and a famous person in the middle seat. And we would interview them as we, we flew to one, take our mind off it, but two really delve into our own fear and did the person of any fear and get to know a celebrity at the same time.1 (7m 27s):Now she never texted me back. So she's clear, clearly she's not that interested. Cause I was like into it. I was like, what if we get, I know, I know. And she's not even in the industry. She's like, so, but I was like, hey fearful flyer friend, I think we should talk about our idea. Crickets radio silence. So whatever. She's moved on. Like she just used me for the, for the Yeah. No entertainment, which is fine,2 (7m 53s):Heightened emotional space. She, she bonded with you, but now she's back to like all of her armor and all of her gear and she doesn't wanna think about flying until she has1 (7m 60s):To. No. Right, right. Exactly. It's not something that she wants to delve into on her free time, you know, So, which I don't blame her. But anyway, so yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like I literally ha I sit out the window, I sit by the window and I have to look out the window. And this guy next to me who I met, who's like a vet and who is like, was self-medicating with alcohol and who is a gay vet was really interesting. But he, everyone copes differently. But it was in, at one point I thought, oh, I actually don't wanna be distracted by him because I'm really doing some deep work with myself as I look out the window and also your version of like getting through this experience, I, it does not feel safe to me, which is drinking and like just, I cannot distract myself.1 (8m 52s):People are like, Oh, read a book. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? That's like telling someone I don't know who's having a seizure to read a book. Like you, you, it's not gonna work. Right. I look out the window and, and do therapy with myself. That is what I2 (9m 7s):Do. I love it. That's great. I think everybody who is listening to this, who has any kind of fear or intimidation around flying should, should do that. I don't know if you were getting to this, but I thought you were gonna say something about like how, Oh, you said, you said what if we all talked about it now? Every positive communal experience with the exception of theater that I've ever had, I've gone into unwillingly at the beginning and you know, sort of rejecting it and then come out the other side. Like that was amazing. You know, the thing that you experience, the communal thing, the thing of like, we're all in this together, which we are all like so actually parched for, but we, people like me would never really kind of actively sort of approach.2 (9m 48s):It has to be thrust upon me these like healing group experiences, but amen. In fact, they could make a whole airline that is sort of about that. Like this is, you know, this is the emotional express. Like this is where we're gonna talk about our fear of flying. Cuz everybody's crying in airplanes too. Being in the actual airplane does something to you that makes everybody much more vulnerable than there are otherwise.1 (10m 13s):It's so crazy. I agree. It could be emotional express and you could deal with it, but you would know getting on this plane, like people are gonna talk about their feelings and you shouldn't get on it. So the guy on the aisle2 (10m 26s):Yesterday, No,1 (10m 28s):No alcohol. Oh yeah, no alcohol. The guy on the aisle like hated everything about the flight, Right? He was like shaking his head. He was annoyed. But then he had a Harvard sweatshirt on. I was like, oh my god. But he was like middle aged guy, like coating or I don't know what he was doing, but he like hated everything. He shook his head when they told him to like put his bag under the seat. I'm like, listen, you know what's going on here. This is not your first time in an airplane, Why are you shaking your head? But okay. But then he said something that was hilarious and I said, I'm gonna put that in a script. Which, which was, I don't even know what he was responding to. It was probably my seat mate saying something. But he said, Listen, it's not ideal, but nobody asked me.2 (11m 13s):And1 (11m 13s):I, I'm gonna, and I said to him, I said, Listen, I am gonna put that in a script. Like the mother-in-law is meeting her future daughter-in-law and, and says, Listen, she's not ideal, but nobody asked me. And he laughed and then he said, it's true. And I said, Yeah, I know it's true. That's why. And so then he was like, then he was like free to talk about his disgruntledness, which was fine cuz then it was like he was more human. But at, he was hilarious. He was like the, like he's one of those people that like during and it was really turbulent at one point. And I was like, Okay, here we go. It's turbulence part of the deal. It's okay, fine. And he was like, just like angry at the turbulence.2 (11m 57s):I love1 (11m 58s):It. Which I thought was brilliant. Yeah, I'm like, but like, who are you angry at? Just like the turbulence. And he was like, ugh. And like angry at air flow. I don't know if2 (12m 7s):At air current1 (12m 8s):He was like pissed off. I was laughing. I was like, this guy's awesome. He just hates everything. It's, it is not ideal, but nobody asks me.2 (12m 17s):So what's so great about that? And so what's so great about you is like, you enga that's how you always engage people from this perspective of like, yeah, whatever is going on with you that you think is like nobody else wants to hear about, I want to hear about it. Because that's because that's what you spend your time doing. You know, bravely engaging with yourself. They, we need a person like you in all of these sort of like high stress situations that people have to do. Usually at some point in your life you have to get on an airplane. Usually at some point in your life you you have to speak, you know, in front of a group of people. You have to have the funeral. We need these sherpa's, these guides to kind of give us, basically just give us permission to have our own human experience that we have somehow talked ourselves out of having, even though it's completely unavoidable.1 (13m 3s):Yeah. And I also really respect people who now who have to just, I mean I, it's not my way, but like, shut down and they're like, Nope, I'm just gonna, they can do it. They're like, either it's drinking or whatever it is to distract themselves. They're like in it, whether it's the disgruntledness or other people, they like just go to sleep immediately. They like sit down and they're like out. And I don't think it's relaxation. I think they're just like checked. They're like,2 (13m 30s):I have, Oh yeah, no, they're, I cannot be conscious right now. I wonder what makes the difference between people who are afraid of flying and not, I have never once felt afraid of flying, even during turbulence. I've never once had the thought like, this plane is going down. I mean, maybe that changed a little bit when I had kids and I was always the one in the aisle, like holding, I had to hold my babies the entire flight because, because it must be a natural thing to be freaked the fuck out to be on an airplane. Even a baby freaks out to be on an airplane. So there's something to it. But what makes a difference between people who just, I've never had that fear.1 (14m 8s):I I know it is a foreign, it is like it is. I don't know either. And I, I I, there's other people like that have, What was the fear someone was talking about the other day? Oh, I have a friend who like literally cannot have their blood drawn. They have to go under almost. Wow. They almost have to be sedated to have their blood drawn. Me. I I stick out my arm. I don't give a, it's just not my thing. Yeah. I don't have any charge at it at all.2 (14m 37s):Well,1 (14m 38s):You could take my blood right now.2 (14m 40s):I used to have this theory that you grew up afraid of the things that your parents basically were afraid of so that they therefore communicated to be afraid of. But that I now think that that's completely untrue. My daughter is scared to death of spiders. She, she's haunted by this fear that when she goes into the bathroom at night, there's gonna be a spider. If there's the tiniest and we live in the woods, there's sp there's all kinds of insects that make that their way into our house. I have, there's not a spider I've ever encountered that I've been afraid of now. Mice and rats. That's what I'm afraid of. My mom was afraid of snakes. She did not transfer when I was younger.2 (15m 20s):I felt afraid of them too. And then one day I was like, eh, it's fine. Yeah. I don't think I have any coral with these snakes actually. I think it's completely fine. Right. So I, I don't, So it's something inherent in us that identifies an ob I think it's maybe like we've, I for whatever reason, this becomes the object of all of your fears. And it could be a spider, it could be a plane, it could be, you know, clowns. Like it's for a lot, for a lot of people. It's1 (15m 47s):Fun. Oh remember, Okay, Larry Bates, who we went to school with, and he's open, I think about this. Yeah, he is cuz he's, he's talked about it. I, he had a fear of muppets, like an intense Muppet fear. And I was like, Wait, are you, I thought it was a joke. I was like, Wait, Muppets, Like, okay, they're a little weird, but like, but like a phobia of a Muppet. And I was like, what the actual fuck. I couldn't like,2 (16m 14s):I just, that's it's not, dude, my version of that is I was afraid of mariachi bands.1 (16m 22s):Wait, mariachi bands?2 (16m 24s):Yes.1 (16m 25s):Like bands. Yeah.2 (16m 26s):Well, so growing up, growing up in, well, we love Mexican boots, so we were always going out for Mexican food. And back then, I don't know why every time you went to have Mexican food, you know, dinner, there was a mariachi band. Like, I, I, it doesn't, I haven't seen a mariachi band in such a long time, but it used to be that you could not go out for a Mexican restaurant dinner without a mariachi band. And I, it got to a point where they couldn't, first it was like, we can't go to have Mexican food anymore. It was like, we can't go to a restaurant. I just, I didn't want these mariachis and, and it must have just, I think it was the bigness of the hat and the loudness of the music right next to your table when you think about it, it's actually, so it's strange, right?2 (17m 9s):Yeah. That you're sitting at your table, like with your family looking, you know, whether you're gonna order the chalupa or the enchilada. And then it's just like, extremely loud, very good, but extremely loud and, and in huge presence. People sitting, you know, right next to your table.1 (17m 24s):Yeah. I mean it doesn't really make a lot of sense as a business move either. Like what, why it would like, it would like make people, unless you're drunk again, if there's alcohol involved, it changes everything. But you can't really drink as a toddler. So, but I think that like, maybe there's something, I wonder if there's something about that of like all the attention being on you. Like, listen, when there's, like, there are kids I know at restaurants when they, when it's their birthday and they come over to sing that they fucking hate it. It's too much attention on them. And adults too. And I can kinda understand that. It's like too much pressure, right? There's like a2 (17m 59s):Pressure. Well, you just unlocked it for me now I know exactly what it is. You said something about being drunk and I think at that age, I have always equated loud and raucous with drunk. You know, as a kid, I knew when anybody in my family was being loud raus. And, and actually, I'm sorry to say even especially when they were having fun. When I'm in a room, when I'm in a house and everybody's laughing, you know, my, it's like, I I I I just get that fear. I just get that fear sort of rise up. It's different now that I'm older and I've, you know, been in more situations where that hasn't been scary to me. But that's what it was with the mariachis, The loud and the festive and the music meant like, somebody's going to say something that they really regret.2 (18m 44s):Somebody's gonna get a dui, somebody's going to jail.1 (18m 50s):Hey, let me run this by you.2 (18m 58s):So imperfectly into the thing I wanted to run by you today, given that it is Halloween season and this episode will air the day after Halloween. But so I, you know, Well, actually no. Okay, I'll, I'll start with this. I am one of those people that desperately seeks paranormal experiences. And I'm almost always disappointed when I'm, when I'm actively seeking it, going to a psychic, going to a medium, going to, it's, oh, you know, it's, I'm never the one in the crowd where the medium goes. Like, I've got a message for you.2 (19m 40s):And I've, I've gotten to the point where I'm like, my family's like just not that into me. They don't wanna, you know, the people have passed over, like, don't wanna, don't wanna come talk to me, don't wanna give me messages. But I I, if you're out there, if you're listening, ancestors drop a line. I'd love to know what the deal is. I'd love to know what messages you might have from me because I actually really do believe that that can happen. Maybe it just needs to happen with people who are on a higher spiritual plane than any of,1 (20m 9s):I mean, I don't, I don't believe that for a sec. I mean, it could be true. What do I know? But I think, look, I do believe right, that most shit happens when you're not expecting it paranormal or not. Like all this shit that has happened to me, most of it has been not at all when I would've planned or thought or, and so I have one ghost story. I don't know if you know, it happened in Great Barrington, Do you know this story?2 (20m 42s):Yes. But tell it again. It's a great story.1 (20m 44s):Okay. Okay. I could care. I was like 21. All I wanted was to be skinny and have boys like me. I didn't give a fuck about ghosts, I didn't care about anything. So I'm in Great Barrington in edits, Wharton's the old Lady author's house, and I'm the stage manager. And this guy I was in love with was in this play that took place. The monkeys paw took place in the, they were doing an adaptation of the Monkeys Paw in Edith Wharton's parlor on Halloween. It was like the creepiest thing, but I didn't give a fuck because I was in love with the guy who was seriously haunted. Yes, yes, yes. Super, super Berkshire's, whatever. I didn't care.1 (21m 24s):I was like, ah, I wanna, I want this guy to like me. I don't give a fuck about any of that. Okay. So I, my job was to literally move the furniture after the rehearsal to the storage room. Okay. In this big mansion. Okay, fine. They're getting notes and I'm just probably daydreaming about how I can make this guy like me. And I'm moving furniture and I go into this little storage room and of course people talk about the house is so big and haunted, I could care less. So I'm in there and down the road from the house is a barn where they're doing the play Ethan from and Okay, Ethan from, there's like a sledding accident in the play. So he's on a sled and they start screaming and the guy is hurt.1 (22m 4s):So another show was going on at the, in the barn. And I'm like, ah, okay. So I'm moving the furniture and I hear this sled yelling and okay, I'm like, Oh, should they, I wish they would shut up. I was like, this is loud yelling. So then I, we finish our rehearsal and we're walking up back, me and the cute guy and some other people, and all I'm thinking about is how can I get this guy like me? And like, literally, and also now I see pictures of him and I'm like, Dear God. Anyway, so, so, oh my God, why didn't someone, I mean, you should, someone should have just slapped me like 10 times and been like, No. But anyway, but that's what I was, I was all about him. I had a thing for Canadians. Anyway, so, so like, I just loved the guys that was like international to me, Canadians.1 (22m 48s):Anyway, okay. So it was like all the Canadians. So we're walking in the dark to our cars and, and I say, and we walk by the barn and I'm like, Oh my gosh, you guys, they were so loud tonight when I was moving the furniture. Like they should shut up. Like, I, I wonder how it's gonna be when we're doing the Monkeys Past show. We're gonna hear Ethan from, and like every, there's like four of us. Everyone stopped and I'm like, What, what's wrong with you? Two or three or whatever. And they were like, like turned white. I've never seen this happen in human beings. And I was like, What is happening? I thought I said something wrong or like, of course, like I was bad. And I'm like, What?1 (23m 28s):And they're like, Oh God. And I was like, What? What are you punk me? What's happening? And they're like, There was no show tonight.2 (23m 37s):Ooh. Even though I knew that was coming the story, it still gave me a chill. Today on the podcast we are talking to Tina Parker. Yes. Tina Parker, the one and only Francesca Litty from the Smash Hit series, critically acclaimed and me acclaimed Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad Tina's a delight. She's a director, she directs for theater. She's got a theater company in Dallas, Texas called Kitchen Dog. And she was so much fun to talk to and I just know you are going to love our conversation with Tina Parker.2 (24m 33s):Oh, nice. Okay. Well I wanna get all into Kitchen Dog, but I've gotta start first by saying congratulations Tina Parker. You survived theater school5 (24m 44s):So long ago. My Lord, so2 (24m 46s):Long ago. Yeah. I I have no doubt that, you know, the ripple we, we've learned, it doesn't matter how long ago you graduated, the, the feeling of survival persists and the ripple effects of it persists.5 (24m 59s):Absolutely.1 (25m 1s):When I had longer hair, people used to always ask if I played Bob Oden Kirk's assistant on better. And I would say no. But I adore the human that plays her. It's brilliant performance and I love it. So2 (25m 17s):There you go. It really is. And I, and I wanna talk a lot about Better Call Saul, but you went to smu, which I did. You interviewed the current dean, I think he's the dean. Blake Hackler.5 (25m 30s):Yeah. Chair of Acting I think.2 (25m 31s):Chair of Acting. Okay, fantastic. I'm I'm assuming you guys weren't there. No, you never crossed5 (25m 36s):Path. But we've actually, he and I have crossed paths a bit professionally nowadays. Yes. Because we've, we, Kitchen Dog has done a few of his new play readings cuz he's a playwright also. So he's, he had at least two or three plays read in our New Works festival and he's always helped me out when I need recommendations for young people to come in and read. Cause you know, we're all old at Kitchen Dog.2 (25m 56s):Fantastic. Shout out to Blake. So SMU is a fantastic school. Did you always wanna go there? Did you apply to a bunch of different places? How did you pick smu?5 (26m 9s):Well, it's kind of a ridiculous story. I, my senior year of high school, you know, of course like a lot of people went to theater school. You're all like, I'm the superstar. My high school. Like, all right, I get all the leads. I'm Auntie Mame and Mame. You know what? Ridiculous.1 (26m 25s):I just have to say I was Agnes Gooch and I, I was the Gooch. Were you5 (26m 30s):Agnes? I was ma I was anti Mame in the stage play version. Oh yes.1 (26m 35s):I wa yeah, yeah, me too. I was Agnes Gooch. I wanted to be anti Mame, but so anyway, always a goo, always a Gooch. Never a Mame over here. But anyway, So tell us, So you were the start.5 (26m 46s):Yeah, you know, like everybody who went to theater school, everybody was the start at their high school. But I, my dad unfortunately had a stroke when I was a, and he was only, my parents are super young and so he was 40, I don't know. So it was very unusual. It happened like at the beginning of my senior year. And so my family was, it was all kind of chaotic. My senior year was very chaotic and I was also like the president of the drama club and, and we, you know, and all the people, you know, all the competitions every weekend. And so it was just a, there was a lot going on and my family stuff got into disarray because my dad ended up losing his job because he was sick for so long. And, and it was so I screwed up.5 (27m 28s):Like I missed a lot of applications. I never, I didn't really, it was one of those where it just kind of snuck up on me and I didn't really know the places I wanted to go. I had missed like certain deadlines because of the fall. And so I, SME was still one of the ones that was open. And so I did, was able to schedule an audition cuz you had to get into the school, but also, you know, get into the theater program. Like you could get into the school, not get into the theater program, you know, it is what it is. Luckily I still had time to do the audition, so I did that and then my grandmother literally walked my application through the admin, through the academic part because something I had missed, I think.5 (28m 13s):And my grandmother is very like, I don't know, it's hard to say no to my grandmother. So she went and they took this great care of her and she just kind of walked through and she's like, told the whole situation. And I mean, I had good grades. Like it wasn't, you know, like I did get in, I got scholarships and all this shit. Like I had, I had good grades, so it wasn't like I was like, my grandmother did it, you know, But she did walk it through. She's a thousand percent charmer. And then the, as far as the audition goes, I was an hour late because I got lost. And then there's this weird horseshoe at SMU cuz you know, go ponies or whatever bullshit that is, there was no parking.5 (28m 55s):And so I was like, got, was super late and I was just like, just like so sweaty and like, you know, you, everything's high drama when you're in high school, right? So you're like, this is is my last chance to be a doctor. I'm gonna have to work at the, you know, fucking shoe store that I was working at or whatever. It was forever. And so1 (29m 15s):I would, I, after I became an actor, I was still working at the cheese store after I went to, But the other thing I wanna say is like, also your grandma sounds like charming, but also like, she might be in the mob.5 (29m 25s):Well, yeah, she's totally like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. She's, she's she, she can get it done. She's the wife of a Methodist minister too. So she, she, she knows how she can, she can read a person and figure out like, this is what you need, you know, And she's just sweet, like, you know, she's charmer. But I ran into someone else's audition, like that's what I, I ran and they then the school, the school is all built, the school is all built crazy. So if you don't know the school, you get lost. And I was like, went and I going in the wrong places and I was an hour late and I was like, and like, I literally like, this is it not open the door. And they're like, somebody's in there like, like doing the thing. And I'm like, oh my god. And they're like, you know, and I was like that.5 (30m 7s):And I was just like, Oh God. And so I go and sit in the room and I just remember them coming in. I was like, I'm really sorry, you know, like the kid was like, whoever, I don't think they got in. And they, I just remember them looking at me like, you know, and they left and I was like, great, this is awesome. And then I go into my audition, which I chose the worst pieces, like the worst of course. Like, I think it was like, I can't even remember the name of the playwright, but it's like a really, really dramatic monologue from like bird bath, you know, My head is not a hammer, like something ridiculous. And then I also chose to sing, which I'm not the greatest. I mean, I can sing, I can sing karaoke, but not like seeing like I'm a musical theater actor. I, I, that's not me.5 (30m 47s):I think I chose seeing like the something that Nights on Broadway or some bullshit, like, you know, the Neon Lights On? No, No. On Broadway. Like ridiculous. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, luckily, luckily I did get in the interview part and then they're like, turn your, they're like, turn your monologue into standup comedy.2 (31m 6s):Oh wow. I never heard of that in audition. What a cool tactic.5 (31m 10s):Well, and it was also, I think they could tell that I was so freaked out and so nervous, but then that like, the interview portion went great. And so they're like, you know, then they were like, Hey, try like play around with this. And then like, the bad song that I had selected that I had practiced with my cousin who could play guitar or something, they're like, do some dance moves with it. So I was just like, I don't dance, but I started doing these ridiculous things and they're like, Yeah, good. They laughed and you know, I, I think it also let me relax. They're2 (31m 38s):Like, you are crazy enough to be in theater school. Wait, you guys, should we have a documentary series about people who are auditioning for theater school? Because honestly like the stakes are so high for so many people. I bet there's 1 billion stories. Yeah, I mean, some of which we've heard on, on, on the podcast, right? Boz? Yeah,1 (31m 58s):I think we do. I think we do. And all the, I just remembered that in my monologue was from the play about the woman who traps the rapist in her house and puts him in a fireplace.5 (32m 10s):Oh, the burning bed or whatever. Not the burning bed, but the, Yeah,1 (32m 14s):Yeah. And it's, it's, it's William Masterson.5 (32m 17s):Yes,1 (32m 18s):Yes, yes. And, and she has a fire poker and she's poking the rapist and I am 16 at the time. Oh, and I what? And a virgin, not that that really matters, but like the whole thing is not good. And why, why did I do that? But yet I got, But5 (32m 35s):That's what this piece was the same thing. It was so dark. And so like, this person is mentally ill and she's like, I get, there's not a hammer.1 (32m 41s):Don't hit me bear.5 (32m 42s):And you're just like, What?1 (32m 44s):I'm like it would've been, I mean I know this is terrible to say, but what if they told me to turn that into standup? Like that would be dark, dark, dark humor. But any, Okay, so you, you clearly like, what I love is that smu like knew how to take a teenagers anxiety and like shift it and so good on them, those auditioners like good on them. So you did that, you did you walk out of there feeling like, okay, like it started off really wonky, like me being late, but like I have a chance. Or did they tell you, when did they tell you5 (33m 15s):I felt good like that? When I, after I left I was like, okay, you know, like I wasn't sure like, cuz I was like, it was weird that they told me to change it to comedy, but I think it was good, you know, And like I felt like the interview part went good and they were, at the time, my class, this was the first year that they, they eliminated the cuts program. So what happened is they instead they had the BFA acting track and then they had, well what was proposed anyways, they changed our, what our degree was, but it was supposed to be ba in theater studies. And so if you were interested in directing, you know, playwriting, whatever, stage management, tech, whatever, and then acting you could also have, so you kind of chose focuses, but that was it.5 (34m 2s):And it had more of a little more academic focus. And so cuz before me, the classes, everybody went in as an actor. You did first two years and then they kind of just cut you basically. And were like, you're in this free fall of like a program that wasn't really planned.1 (34m 18s):Yeah. I mean like, that's how our school was too. And like half the people didn't end up graduating and it was a racket and now they don't do it anymore. But that5 (34m 27s):Was a huge, yeah, they stopped my year.1 (34m 30s):Okay. So, so was it that the people that maybe weren't get getting into the acting program went to theater studies? Is that how it was proposed?5 (34m 37s):I think that's what they were trying to do. I think they were also trying to figure out a way, or they were try some people left. I think they were also trying to keep their numbers up. And I think they also had people who were like, Hey we're, I'm an actor but I'm also a director. Why can't you make, get me some classes here? You know, like, I wanna have the class. If you're gonna cut me, that's fine. But like, I'm interested in these things too. Can there be a program? And so they kind of were building that program, like they had it out there, you know, and that when they took our class, we had very set paths of like, and we had the same two years together as a group. So freshman and sophomore year. And then we split into our kind of disciplines and they kind of still, like when I was, when we were juniors, kind of like, here's some things and we're like, okay, but our class was kind of a hard ass and we're like, where's our, where's our, where's this class?5 (35m 24s):Where's that? So we were always in the office saying, no, this, this like afterthought of a class, this should then fly and you know, I'm gonna direct a main stage or I wanna direct a studio. And they're like, Oh. And they're like, No, this is how it's gonna work or whatever. So like, yeah, me and Tim and Tim, who actually is one of my coworkers, a kitchen dog and then a couple other folks were pr I think we turned the, the chair at the Times hair white because we would go in there and be like, No, this isn't gonna work.2 (35m 53s):You just, you just made me realize that our, this, all the schools who had cut programs who didn't have another track to go into after were missing out on such a revenue stream. Right? Like our, at our school. Yeah. All the people who got cut like went to this other college and I'm thinking, what, what, When was the meeting where somebody goes, Oh my god, you guys, we should just have something here for them to do instead of sending them to another school. That's hilarious. Well,5 (36m 17s):And I think too, they find like, you know, like that there's kids that truly have talent for, you know, like a playwright or director, but then they're also really good actors. Which I think, you know, I think it's really good for people who are like, I am primarily like, I'm a mix Tim I would say who my coworker is is primarily a director, but, but it's great for both of us to go through acting, you know, like that's been, that's, but1 (36m 38s):I'm noticing is there's no, like our school had no foresight into anything, so it was like they didn't, So that's a problem in a, in a university.5 (36m 49s):Yeah. It, here's problem. Right.1 (36m 50s):So okay, so at your school, what was your experience like on stage the star? Were you And then, Oh, okay. And then, and then my other follow up question is, man, the follow up question is you're launching into the professional world. What did your school do or not do to prepare you? And what was your departure like into like, okay, now you're 22, live your life.5 (37m 11s):Bye. I would say for, I was kind of a mix. Like I had a lot of opportunities while I was there and some self created as far as directing opportunities. And we had an interesting system of like, there was a studio theater and we were able to have, we had this studio system, which a lot of non-majors would come and see plays because they were required, blah, blah blah. But so we got to direct a lot, you know, And, and Tim really fought and he got directed main stage and I was, I was, my senior year I was a lead in a play, you know, like just all sorts of things. Like I had a lot of great opportunities at smu. I think I had some also, I had some good teachers and directors while I was there.5 (37m 53s):So when I was a junior, you know, they had Andre De Shields in to, to as a guest artist, which really stirred the pot because he was not about like, let's talk about your objectives, let's talk, let's really do some table work. Like, he was like, Why aren't you funny? I don't get that shit. Like, go, go out. Why aren't you funny like this? Or come up with some, some dancing or whatever, you know. He was awesome. Like, I loved it. Like cuz we were doing funny thing happen on the way to the forum. I was one of the, you know, concubines or whatever the dance, I was Tinton Nebula, the bell, the supposed to be a, like a bell ringer, you know, like sexy dancer. And he said, I reminded him of some lady he lived with in Amsterdam. So instead I was a clogger and had bells and had giant hair that went out to here.5 (38m 37s):And yeah. And so he was like, he was great. Like, and but it really gave you the experience, it makes a lot of people crazy because he was like not interested in their process. What he was interested in was like results and like hitting your marks and like, you know, like he had sent me away and he was like, come up with 16 beats to that end I'm gonna see something funny. And so I came back in and did it and he was like, yes. You know, like it was, it was awesome. Like he would, he would really was a real collaborator.2 (39m 3s):That's fantastic. And, and actually I'm so glad you told that story because, and I, I won't, I wanted you to get back to launching and everything, but the thing about the Andre Des Shield story that you just told, I can see why you like that because that seems like you a person who has the training and the gravitas and whatever to like take their craft very seriously, but at the end of the day, you're there to entertain and get the job done, right? Like you don't, you're not so precious about your own self. Yeah. Which is really interesting.5 (39m 30s):No, and I mean it was, it was so important I think just because, you know, like everywhere you, everywhere you go like, you know, you don't always work at the same place and everybody's process and everybody's way of rehearsal or whatever's wildly, wildly different. And so I thought it was great because you know, you're not going to go always walk into some place where they're gonna coddle you or, or, or take the time or whatever, you know, like it's different.1 (39m 56s):The other thing is that like we, what I just hit me is that we've interviewed a ton of people and I'm trying to like think about like what does a conservatory do wrong is I think they forget that it's about entertainment. Like there becomes such a focus on process and inner work. What about the fucking entertainment value of like entertaining the audience? Like that goes out the window, which is why the shit is not funny most of the time. Cause it's like so serious, you're like, no, this is a fucking farse. Like make people laugh. Yeah. And it's like, I love that, that you're, you remind me of like an entertainer and I, I feel like I needed entertainment Conservatory.5 (40m 35s):Not, well I would say that, I mean I still use a lot of the training that I used at SMU like, like at Kitchen Dog. I mean this was founded by SMU grads. So you know, a lot of the doing table work and talking about what you want and all that kinda stuff like that is definitely part of what we do. But what was cool about Andre and I love and Des Shields with all my heart like was that you found a way to make your process work in his framework and, and he got results. Like the, our show was funny as hell, like in the singing was great, the dancing was great and it looked great cuz the Eckhart's did the costumes and all the sets and it felt like we were in a professional show.5 (41m 15s):Like it was, it was exciting and fun to do. So I thought it was a great way to kind of get ready for what it was gonna be like. Cuz I remember auditioning for the show and he was like, Where's your headshot? And we're like, nobody told us. And he's like, This is an audition, why don't you have, I don't understand why you don't have a headshot. And you're just, just like, oh God. Like, and it was embarrassing, you know? And then he was like, All right, I wanna do the, he's doing some improvy things in that in the thing and people couldn't get like, people were like, and he is like, just jump in man. And he was like fantastic. And you know, you get a call back and you're like, okay, I see how this works. So that was great. And we also had a lady named Eve Roberts, same thing. She was pretty brutal too in that, you know, if you weren't ready to go, she wasn't gonna baby you.5 (42m 1s):So she would just basically like you're oh, so you don't know your lines. Sit the fuck down, Sit down, who's ready to work? Cuz it was an audition class and she was a film actor with a lot of experience and it was auditions for both film and and stage. But she, if you weren't ready, but if you were ready, she would work you out. Like you would get a great workout, you'd leave with a great monologue. And so I was like, always be prepared for that, you know, cuz she will, she will, she will get you if you're not,2 (42m 27s):Honestly it really sounds like SMU did a much better job than most, most of what we hear about in terms of like getting real working actors and, and it's a tough thing. I I, you know, I don't really blame any school that doesn't, It's a tough thing if it's a working actor, then they're working, they don't have time to like commit to the, the, the school teaching schedule. But at the same time, like if you don't have any of that, then you are really, you're experiencing all that on the job. Which, you know, which is fine too. But it sounds like SMU did a better job of preparing for you, preparing you for a career.5 (42m 57s):I would say somewhat. Yeah. I mean there are things that I, you know, as, as I entered life because I was of the mind when I, when I graduated, I was really torn about whether or not to go to grad school or not. And I really didn't know cuz I really, I, and I still to this day have a split focus. Like I act and direct both in the, you know, in the theater. Like I do both. So I wasn't sure which way I wanted to go and you really had to decide to go to grad school. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna take a year off is what I decided. And I waited tables, lived life, you know, whatever, didn't even really do any theater or stuff.5 (43m 39s):But I tended to like work back at smu. So like they would have me come back and like I would sub in and cover like Del Moffitt who was the man who was the auditioner who auditioned me originally and his improv class. Like I'd come in and do cover him for a month if he went on sabbatical, you know, stuff like that. Or like, and I directed a couple main stages there. That was it. So I just decided end up, I started working more in Dallas and ended up just staying in Dallas. Dallas was not what I plan where I planned to stay. Like I kept in my mind, you know, thinking like I'm gonna move to Chicago. Like that was my dream was living in Chicago and because I guess I'm a tourist and stubborn and lazy, I don't know, sometimes you just start working and you're like, nah, just stay here.5 (44m 26s):I'm working and I can kind of do what I want. And then I got an agent and I was like, oh there's this part of the, you know, like I think in 95 or whatever, you know, cause I graduated in 91, so you just start working and then it's like, why do I want to go and start over? And it was just kind of a hard thing to do. Do I have regrets sometime about not doing Absolutely. Like sometimes I look back and I'm like, oh man. But as far as just preparing, I think it's just hard to get prepared. Cuz I think, like, I wish I left with like, and they're doing this now, which is great, but like left with more of like what's, you know, good, what's a good headshot? What's what, what, you know, how do you walking into a room, how do you handle it?5 (45m 7s):You know, like there's certain things that I feel like they could train and give you a little bit more experience, life experience in it. But I think they have some new, I know they have, I know they have film acting now, a little bit of film acting stuff there, which is always good just cuz that's how a lot of people make money.2 (45m 26s):I, I am, I'm happy to say because we've had, we've had this conversation so many times with people about the way that schools didn't prepare you. Somebody's been getting the message about this. My son is in high school and he goes to this like auxiliary performing arts program. It's like half day his regular high school and half day this and he does a seminar once a week on the business of music. And you know, what, what kind of jobs you're gonna have to do to keep, you know, to pay the rent while you're waiting between gigs, like is very brass tack. So, so the message has gotten through, thankfully.5 (45m 58s):Yeah, the business is important, man. That's how you survive. I mean, let's be real. I mean like that's, and it's not easy. Like if you're, like, if you're going to, I mean there's, sure there's two or three unicorns every so often, but for the most part you're gonna have to wait tables or cobble together bunch of odd jobs or cobble you know, like all these little, like, I'm a, I'm gonna do the Asop Fs in the, in the elementary schools for three weeks or whatever, you know, like, and how do you make rent? You know, like that's, it's not glamorous for sure.2 (46m 27s):So what was the journey from graduating to founding Kitchen Dog with your classmates?5 (46m 33s):I actually am not a founder. So Kitchen Dog was founded by five SMU MFA students who were in the MFA program when I was an undergrad. So I, so I ate that old, thank God, but they founded it in 90, did their first show in 91, which I saw it was above a, it was above a pawn shop in deep with no air conditioner in May. It was very hot and fantastic, you know, Maria Ford has his mud, it was great. And so I did my first show with them in 93. So a few years after I graduated, which Tim, my classmate directed, he had come back, he was in Minnesota at the time and then I've just worked with Kitchen Dog ever since.5 (47m 15s):So I became a company member in 96, started working for the company as like an admin producer type person in 99 and then became co-artistic director when the founding ad left in 2005. So I've been here forever. I do not have children. I say that Kitchen dog is my grown mean child. You're1 (47m 36s):Grown mean, did you say mean?5 (47m 38s):Yeah, I did say mean sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it's very, you know, temperamental.1 (47m 42s):Yeah, that's fine. That's, I mean, yeah, it's probably still better than kids, I'm just saying. Anyway. I mean, I don't have any, so, but okay, so what do you, this is what I always wanna ask people who have longstanding careers in theater and especially when they are co-artistic director or artistic director, why do you do it and why do you love it?5 (48m 6s):That's a really good question. I mean, it varies from time to time. I mean, I think that I, you know, Kitchen Dog has one of its tenants has always been about asking, you know, we do, we do, I hate the word edgy, but we do edgier plays, we do plays that are very much talking about the world around us. Challenging, you know, and we're in Texas, it's, you know, sort of purple state now, kind of exciting purple parts. At least Dallas is hopefully this election goes that way. So, you know, it's, we, I feel like our place in the Dallas Zeki is important because, you know, we're not doing, there are a lot of people that do traditional plays and do them well, you know, like straight ahead, you know, musicals or you know, the odd couple or whatever.5 (48m 53s):Notice this gesture, the odd couple and doing great. But we do new, we do newer plays. We're a founding member of the National New Play Network. And so that's kind of kept it relevant and kept it exciting. The work exciting to me. I love working with new plays and new ideas and we have a company of artists, some of which went to smu and I, I think I've stayed here this long because, you know, I feel like I can, I, I do, I am able to do the kind of work I wanna do. I'm able to choose the plays I wanna be in or direct and I feel like they're important for my community. And when it becomes that, it's not that then I need to leave or step downs is my feeling.5 (49m 37s):I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. I dunno.2 (49m 40s):Yeah. So many people say that, that they, that they, they keep their allegiances to theater companies because it's, it's often the work that they really, you know, f feel moves them is very, you know, is very inspiring. But then you also got the opportunity to do a very good part in something that was commercial, which is breaking bad. So could you tell us anything about your, how you were born into that project?5 (50m 8s):Sure, sure. The, I, you know, I got an agent, did you know, I had no experience, no resume. So you did the couple of walk on, you know, like, I'm in the back of a bank commercial, fantastic. Or whatever, $50. I love it. Did that and Lucked into Robert Altman. Came to town and did a very terrible movie called Dr. T and the Women. But it was a fantastic experience and I was one of the nurses and I was on set every day pretty much. So he's told me, he told us, he's like, I'll make you a lot of money. You're not gonna be seen a lot. You'll be here every day. And we got out by five and I was able to do plays at night. Like it was, it was Chef's kiss the best, like you just kind of learned from the master.5 (50m 52s):Like he is a, he truly was a master god rest his soul. Anyway, so I started auditioning more, did some walkers cuz everybody does did Walker back in the time Walker, Texas Ranger. It's like1 (51m 2s):The er we'd all did the ER and the early ion in Chicago. That was my so walker, same thing. I love a good walker by the way, Texas Ranger.5 (51m 13s):So ridiculous. Yeah, I think one of my lines in one of the episodes I was in was like, you won't put this on your lighty friends tabs. Like it was so country. Anyway, it terrible. But so with the breaking bad thing, I, I read the sides. It actually was the, the person who was casting locals or whatever, not locals cuz it was shooting in New Mexico, but it was a woman in Tony Cobb Brock who was casting in Dallas. And so we got the sides, I got the call to come in and audition for it. I read it and I was like, you know, and this is the story I've told a lot, but it's the truth, which is I read it and I was like, It's gonna be a blonde, big boobs woman. Like that's what I thought when I read it, I was like, it's gonna be this.5 (51m 54s):That's what it's gonna be. Cuz there were a lot of jokes about boobs and you're killing me with that booty. Like there was a lot more to that scene. My first scene there was a lot more. So I was like, whatever. I was like, it's not, I'm, you know, I'm a plus size lady, I have brown hair, I have a, you know, deep voice. Like, oh well. So I was like, why do I feel good in, So I just wore, I remember I wore this Betsy Johnson dress that, cause I was kind of into Rocky Billy Swing at the time. This Betsy Johnson little dress with apples was real sexy and this little shrug and had my hair kind of fancy. And I was like, I'm wearing this. I don't give a shit. So I, I was like, I feel good in this, Who cares? So I walked in and there were a bunch of ladies that were blonde and had professional lady outfits on and I was like, Oh shit, I should have dressed like a secretary.5 (52m 38s):Why did I dress like this? Oh damn. And I was like, Okay, well whatever. It's, you're not, you're not gonna book this so who cares? Went in, I had a great audition, made Tony laugh and you know, it was what it was. And so I went away and I didn't hear anything for a while. So I was like, oh, I didn't book that. Oh well. And I was sitting in an audition for some commercial and I never booked commercials. I just don't, cuz I look one way and then my voice comes out and they're like, Oh, you can't play the young mom because you seem like Jeanine Garofalo or something. So your bite and smile is scary, ma'am. So I was waiting in the, waiting in the waiting room and my agent calls, or I got paged or, you know, cause it was that so long ago.5 (53m 23s):And she was like, Can you be on a plane in three hours? And luckily I wasn't doing a play at the time. And I said, Yeah, I can. And she's like, Well you booked it. You, you should go and so you should go home and pack and go to Southwests. And that was the story. And so I get there and you know, whatever found out that, you know, it's Bob and Kirk and start losing my mind and all this stuff. But what's crazy is, it's a crazy story. And then on when in season four finale, breaking bad spoiler alert, if you haven't watched it, but you're,2 (53m 52s):You're late if you haven't watched it. Like5 (53m 54s):It's, that's2 (53m 55s):On you.5 (53m 56s):Please watch it cuz I need, Mama needs to keep getting residuals. Cause she's, you know, not Yeah. But that final episode where I have a great scene with Brian Cranston. There's a, there was a podcast, Insider podcast, which I wasn't aware of, but they talked to Vince about, you know, Oh, who's she and how did you cast her? You know, cause this was my first like, actual scene, you know, like, boy, I don't, I have more than two lines. And he tells the story of like, and this, I just love this story, which is like, basically he had seen a lot of people that he didn't think was right. He wanted something. They kept showing him the same type and he was like, no, I I it needs to be something different. He's a different kind of guy. I wanted somebody who'd challenge him, you know, different looking. And the casting woman who had Kira, I can't remember her last name, but she had, you know, I'd auditioned for her a few times, been put on tape.5 (54m 43s):I don't know that it necessarily booked anything. She's like, Well there is this one girl, I think she's great. She's probably not right. I physically, she's prob I don't think she's right, but do you wanna see? And so he showed her and he was like, That's exactly what I want. And then I booked it. And so it's crazy. So you just never know. I mean I think that's the, I think that's the walkaway.1 (55m 2s):Okay. This is the,5 (55m 3s):This1 (55m 4s):Is the craziest thing. This is crazy. So I booked a show in New Mexico called Perpetual Grace. Kira cast it and Kira showed me to Steve Conrad, who's the showrunner in James Whitaker who was directing the episode. I looked nothing like the other people. My agent Casey called me and said, Can you get on a plane in three hours? You5 (55m 29s):Gonna1 (55m 29s):New Mexico? Same casting director, St. Kira,2 (55m 34s):The Kira, all these people, Kira,1 (55m 38s):Kira talk5 (55m 39s):Me. Well, and it's like that thing, you know, like you, you know, I think that's always the big takeaway, right? Is, is, and you know, and I, I think I read this not to feel like I'm fucking namedropping I'm not. But like, I read this I think in Brian's book too. But like, the thing is, is like all you can do is just like, just, they're calling you in for a reason. So you just have to say like, what is it in me? What's unique about me? That's this role? And lean into it and go for it in that regard because that's all you got. Like as soon as you start and I find myself doing this, I have to keep reminding myself, you know, to do this. Which is I'll read something like, oh it's this and try to play to what I think it is. Versus like, no, what is it in me?5 (56m 19s):That's this. And that's the thing I book when I do that, when I try to do the other other thing, you know? Totally. And start getting your own head.2 (56m 28s):The time5 (56m 28s):On here, God,2 (56m 30s):By the way, regarding name dropping, I never understand why anybody gets upset about that. I, it's like, well they're people that, you know, the people that you work with, they're people in your life. I mean, you're just saying their name. It's, it's not like you're cloud chasing. But anyway, that, that's insight. Girl. Walk me back to this day where you take three hours to get on the airplane. I wanna know how fast did you have to rush home to pack? What did you do? Did you have enough stuff? What was it like when you were on the airplane? Did you order a drink because you felt so fancy? Tell us everything.5 (56m 57s):Well, all I know is I had a bag and I got, I ran home, I had a roommate at the time, thank God. And I just said, Can you feed my cat? Cause I, I had a cat at the time. I was like, Please feed Loretta. And so I got this bag and just threw, it was really like, just stuff thrown in and I was like, do I need to bring the dress and shoes that I wore that, So I brought the whole outfit cuz I was like, cuz the jobs, some of the jobs I'd been on, I had to bring my own shit or whatever, you know, you have to bring your whole wardrobe and be like, Oh you want none of this? Great, I'll put it all back in my car. So I just threw that in there and then I just threw some random, I don't even know what I packed and, you know, ran to the airport, got on the plane, I think I did have a jack and coat cuz I was just like, I'm so freaked out in the plane.5 (57m 43s):Of course you know, you're going to New Mexico, so you're going over those mountains and you're just like, okay, I'm gonna die also great, but I don't wanna die. I just booked a big job or whatever. And then I remember the landing and getting in the van thing and they took me straight to the hotel and I, I remember opening cuz they, back then they, you know, you would get like your sides in an envelope like that in the, in the later years. That shit never, you never got printed stuff ever because people would steal it and whatever else. So I remember pulling it out and seeing Bob's name and freaking, oh, cause I was a huge Mr.5 (58m 23s):Show fan and I was just like, oh my god, oh my god. And I just remember calling my fr I have a friend Aaron Ginsburg, who's kind of an LA Hollywood dude or whatever. And I was like, Oh my god, oh my god. And he was like, Thanks for this spoiler. And I was like, Oh shit, I'm not supposed to tell people. And I was like, but I'm freaking out. And he was like, No, no, it's okay. I will tell no one. I was like, don't tell anyone I don't wanna get fired. But yeah, so I just remember sitting there and freaking out and trying to look at my lines and, you know, what am I, oh God. And then going there with my clo my little bag of dresses or whatever and they're like, we don't want any of this crap.2 (58m 57s):They're like, this is a high budget show. We got, we got costumes covered5 (59m 1s):Back then. I don't, I know back then, I don't know if they were that high budget, but it was interesting to me. The one thing is, is just how involved the showrunners of that show Peter and or Vince at the time, and then later Peter and Vince. But like, they have a color palette they have where they want the characters to go. Like I had, you know, that it got really paired down. I ended up having like, you know, just a few lines. But they took so many pictures, different outfits, different setups and like different color tones, like just setting what they wanted for my character. And I was like, holy shit or whatever. And they were, everybody was so, and everybody was so nice and friendly.5 (59m 43s):It's really remember your name to hear1 (59m 45s):And I'm glad you talked about it. Oh, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm in the rainstorm. So sorry. But like, it's so weird to be, I'm in the Midwest right now and I live in la so coming back here, I'm like, what is that noise? It's fucking fucked up and it's the fucking rain. Anyway, so what is so beautiful about this story to me is that even if we feel small, right? Like whatever, these people who are creating these iconic shows have such vision. There is literally no small character. Like these are their children and they have arcs they have. So it just makes me appreciate as creators, as artists, how much time love, energy goes into characters and storylines.1 (1h 0m 31s):And then we see maybe, maybe if we're lucky one eighth of it, but just know like the shit matters. Right? Like a5 (1h 0m 39s):Thousand percent. And that's the same thing with like, the same thing with Robert Altman. I mean like we were, you know, he, you know, I got to be part of one of those ma his signature long tracking shots, right? He, he would walk in the room and be like, Okay, what's going on in here? So what are you guys doing? What are you, what's happening? And I was like, Well where this, that? And he's like, Great, keep that. And when I come across I want you to be in this moment. You know? So like, and he's like, Teen are things like where he's following on my shoulder and Tina, I need you to do this and this is what's happening. And I've tried, I want, I'm just gonna think about some lines, just throw these out. You know? It was just, I don't know. And that's the same thing with Vince and with Peter. Like, they were really like, what is she wearing? Why is she wearing this? Where are you? Like, you know, what's going on?5 (1h 1m 19s):And like they were like, the scripts were so good. It was like you had to be letter perfect. Barry's like, oh it's a lot of improv. And I'm like, no,1 (1h 1m 26s):No. But2 (1h 1m 26s):Also it sounded like theater, the attention to, to detail and the, and the sort of like the vision and the way that, and you, that just comes through in the best series. The A tours you, you know, that they've thought about and5 (1h 1m 38s):They all love2 (1h 1m 38s):Theater, right? Yeah, right.5 (1h 1m 39s):They all love theater. They all do.2 (1h 1m 41s):So a bit ago you said something about how the, like lustiness that Saul, you know, Jimmy feels for Francesca didn't, you know, necessarily a lot of that didn't necessarily make it into at least your first episode, but it got revisited and Better Call Saul. And I really appreciated that because I was like, Oh yeah, I, I would've wanted to see more of that. You know, I, I wanted to see more of that like lush stage dynamic. But you had,5

Intro: Nasty neighbors in the Great Unraveling, The Rest MovementLet Me Run This By You: RejectionInterview: We talk to Tina Huang about soap opera acting, LaGuardia High School, the Playwrights Horizon program at Tisch, breaking down barriers for Asian actors, Ammunition Theatre Company, Revenge Porn or the Story of a Body by Carla Ching, Bay Area Theatre, Pig Hunt, starting a fake management company,  Word for Word Performing Arts Company, Intersection for the Arts, Campo Santo, Amy Tan, 1:1 Productions, Karla Mosley, Jeanne Sakata. FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):1 (8s):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez this, and I'm Gina Pulice.2 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.3 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of2 (20s):It all. We survive theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?0 (34s):You2 (35s):Part of the building.1 (36s):Okay,2 (37s):Great. I don't know how it's gonna go.1 (41s):I mean, nobody knows how it's gonna go. It's unknowable until we know it.2 (45s):That is true. Good morning.1 (48s):Good. Margie,2 (50s):Your makeup looks amazing.1 (53s):Thank you. I'm not doing well, so I'm acting opposite. You know that skill?2 (59s):Oh, I know. Oh, that's like, I would say like 90% of adulthood. Anyway. What's happening? What, what is, if you wanna get into it, like what's the overall arching shittiness,1 (1m 10s):The overarching thing is just, Well, my neighbor I told you about.2 (1m 15s):Okay. And I just wanna put it out there and we'll get into the story, but I wanna put it out there that I, we are in, and we've said this before on the podcast in what I would call, and others like Gina would call probably similar, the great unraveling of our society. So it's like Rome is falling and I, I don't even say it, it sounds so cavalier the way I'm saying it, but I literally every day see evidence of the great unraveling of the American sweater. You know what I mean? Like it's coming out. Yes. Yeah. And we, it's okay. And I think one of those things is terrible neighbors, right? Like, people who are terrible are just getting more terrible.2 (1m 58s):So Gina has a neighbor that is very terrible.1 (2m 0s):Yeah. People just over the last several years do seem to feel way more comfortable just being extremely hor. Horrible. Horrible. So what, So this is the same neighbor that I've talked about before. And basically the deal with her is it's like she's obsessed with us. And, and like, what she doesn't understand is that we just work very hard to avoid her, you know, avoid interacting with her at any cause. I realized yesterday after she screamed at me that she has screamed at three fifths of my family members.1 (2m 40s):She only hasn't screamed at the nine year old and the, and the 14 year old. It's so insane. She's the one who Aaron was walking the dog and he had a flashlight and the dog was really young and he was trying to train him. So he kept like stopping and starting screens out. It's very disconcerting to be sitting in my living room and seeing a flashing light in front of my house, house. Like, he's like, I'm walking the dog. And the same one who when she was walking her dogs and he was walking our dog, she's like, It's not a great time to be walking your dog because her dogs are out of control. And she's yelled at my son a few times. Anyway, so what happened was, I walked the dog, I picked up the poop, I had the little baggy. If it's anybody else's house, I feel comfortable putting it in their trash2 (3m 23s):Can. Yeah. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I hate to tell you people, but poop is trash. There's like nowhere else to put it. So if you, if you are like not okay with pooping in your trash in a bag tied up, then you don't need to live in a society where there are dogs or where there are trash. Cause that's what it1 (3m 44s):Is, Honestly. Honestly. And it's like, I feel like a big part of what's driving all this bad behavior is just like, so much entitlement. Like, I'm entitled to have only my trash in my trash can. And it's like, okay, you've never lived in New York City, right? Cause you don't understand anything about cooperative living. And anybody, whether they live in my neighborhood or not, is welcome to put their poop2 (4m 6s):Back. Yeah, dude.1 (4m 7s):So I'm walking by and I'm talking on the phone stuff, somewhat distracted, and I see this trash can, and I go, I like reach out ever So tentatively, not tentatively, but like, I had barely started to reach out, realized it was their house didn't. And within milliseconds, she is out of her house screaming at me. And I hadn't even, you know, put the poop in there. And I, I'm talking about misbehavior. I mean, I've, I don't think I've ever done this except for like having road rage in the car where the other person really can't hear me. Like I just screamed every obscenity Yes.1 (4m 48s):In the book. I, I hope nobody else, I'm sure somebody else heard, but nobody, nobody's contacted me. And, you know, I'll say this, I'm much better about taking a beat. Like, I really wanted to blast her. I really wanted to like write a horrible message to her. I really want, and I, and I don't, I'm not refined enough, well enough evolved enough to like get right to like, what's, what's the need of the matter? But I have figured out that I should probably just not say anything until, until I've thought about it. I had a good long think she messaged me on social2 (5m 22s):Media. What1 (5m 23s):She said, I'm sorry, I accused you of throwing trash in our trash can. And I just blocked her. I'm just like, you know, I, I, I wanted, what I wanted to say is like, you have no idea how much time we spend trying to avoid you. You are unwell. You have yelled at three fifths of my family, like, never speak to me or my children ever again. Forget I exist. Forget I live right across the street from you because that's what I'm trying to do about you. So2 (5m 50s):Instead you just blocked her. Well listen that, that, because when you told me this story yesterday that she, the the reach out on social media hadn't happened. So now I'm like, I think what, before you said that part, I was gonna say like, I think our only recourse is what people do, which is start videotaping the insanity. And I'm not sure that's a really a good solution. Like, I think that like, oh sure, people put it on social media and then there's a laugh, but then we're really laughing at sort of the horribleness and the, and the mental illness of others. And it's their person and who knows how that's gonna negatively affect them or their job or their family. So I don't, like, I understand the, the urge to videotape everything, but I'm not sure that's really the answer with, with non-criminal behavior.2 (6m 40s):If it's a crime, then it's something else. But if it's just to embarrass or ashamed someone I, I'm, I have second thoughts about the videotaping now, but good for you for just blocking it. It, you know, what it is, is if to say, we are done with this, we are done with this.1 (6m 57s):Yeah. Yeah. And you lie down with dogs and you get fleas. Yes. And I don't really wanna bring that energy into my life. And sometimes, you know, if you get, if you're like a person who consumes as much media as I do, you get this false sense of like, what I would do in that, you know, in a certain situation when it's theoretical, I feel very, like, not even brave, but just like aggressive and entitled. And I can get to a point where I feel like I could hear myself saying like, Oh, I would kill that person. Or I would, which of course I would never do. In fact, I don't even wanna like, say anything unkind about them in a very public way. So knowing me and knowing my values, and you could just never go wrong if you stick with your own values. Like, it's not my value to, it's not my value to tell people, You know what, here's a thing you need to know about yourself.1 (7m 43s):And it's not my val even though I do that with people, people that I know, but not strangers. And it's my value to like, keep as much peace in my life as possible. And it's not my value to engage with toxic people with whom I could only ever have a toxic Yeah. You know,2 (8m 0s):Interaction. Right. It's not gonna get better. It's like a legit never gonna get better because it's just, that's not how, that's not how it works if you engage in that. So anyway, that okay. But that, that has nothing to do with the overarching shitty No,1 (8m 14s):The overarching thing is just like, wow, parenting is so hard. People, people are really, people learn at different rates. People learn lessons at different rates. People mature at different rates. Like, and having patience for somebody who's really behind in so many ways is exhausting and overwhelming to me. So there's that piece. There's like, you know, a relative with having a health crisis, there's,2 (8m 45s):Oh,1 (8m 46s):There's just stuff going on. Yeah. And, but this is what I'm doing differently this time. Okay. I am trying to stay with myself, which is to say, yes, things are terrible, things are going wrong, but I am not gonna abandon myself in the process. Yeah. Of like, feeling my way through it. And in fact, that's another new thing, is I'm feeling my way through it and I'm really trying to apply this thing about taking a beat and like how crazy, you know, Aaron is also having, we're simultaneously having this growth moment. And, and you know, he recently made a big stride with somebody in his family who's having a health crisis, and he, he said, You know something I like, I'm not gonna go to crazy town.1 (9m 32s):Like I, he, I saw the light bulb for him. Like, I have a choice about whether or not I wanna go to crazy town on this. And actually I don't, because actually it's bad for my, because you know, I was thinking about this when I was at Costco today and I was doing some something small and I was wanting to like, do it really fast. And I thought, why do I wanna do everything so fast? Like, my shoulders are tense all the time. Like, I don't wanna do anything so fast anymore. There's no reason I'm not in any rush. Like I, there's, it's, it's just a habit from youth. I feel like just doing everything in a big rush, rush, rush. Yeah. And I think it's time to let that go.2 (10m 9s):Oh, I mean it's, so I feel like it's such an intense and like right on timing because there's this whole movement about rest. Have you heard about this? Like rest is radical, Rest is as a revolution. So there's a black woman and I believe I, I I I, I am ignorant to what her like specialty is area. And I just started hearing about it. And Miles my husband was listening to her an interview with her about how rest, not napping, not, but like r really snatching and holding dear to the idea of rest as, as radicalism, rest as a revolution opposite of hustle.2 (10m 50s):Culture is like gonna be the way that we, this is my interpretation of what she's saying. Like, the way that we sort of fight injustice and in fight racism, all the isms is by really embracing rest culture as opposed to hustle culture. So1 (11m 8s):I love that. And by the way, black women are spawn every good thing there is in the world. Like, you find a trend that's happening in society that you like and think is really positive. You can definitely trace it back to a black woman who, who, who, who started, who started it. So that's great. I'm pro rest, I'm, and I'm also trying to do less of like I'm a human being, not a human doing. And like, if I don't cross everything off of my to-do list, that doesn't, you know, it's not, it's not like I'm, it's not a wasted day if I didn't get all my little tasks done, you know, especially I was emotionally dealing with something else.2 (11m 45s):Yes, yes. That's the other thing. It's that the, the emotional, you know, I think like if it's become such sort of a, I don't know, buzzword or whatever phrase, emotional labor, but I do think that the time that I spend thinking, feeling and, and, and doing internal work, I've never counted as anything. And I think the way, and, and watching, especially having watched in white male dominated Hollywood for so long, Let me tell you something, Those motherfuckers rest okay. They rest when they, when, So don't you think for one second that the people who are on top or seemingly running shit or whatever or are running shit are not resting because they are, they can, they may set the trend for hustle culture, but they're really talking ultimately about the rest of us hustling because they have yachts and vacation homes.2 (12m 43s):They rest. I don't care what you say. You know what I mean? Yeah.1 (12m 46s):It's, it's such a, it's such a, I don't even know how to describe it. It's such, it's like a comical notion that these masters of the universe are really hustling all the time because all of their work is built on the backs of people who are oppressed in one way or another. So really everybody under them is hustling. Correct. Much, much more than they are,2 (13m 8s):Right? Yes.1 (13m 9s):And we've been able to outsource all their, you know, a domestic, everybody we've been able to out Yeah. Everything. Yeah.2 (13m 16s):And like, I think, I think the other, the other sort of weird shit is that like, you know, the older I get, and we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, is the more I realize like it's all a pyramid scheme, right? Like, so any capitalism thing that you are into, whether it's Hollywood, whether it's Wall Street, whether it's, I don't care, like anything, whether you work in tech, anything is all basically a pyramid scheme because that is what capitalism is. And so I feel like there are just more and more subtle ways in which I am seeing that the, you know, the rules are never fair and the what's behind the curtain is always the same, which is a select few who tend to be, you know, white males are really running the show.2 (14m 10s):And we shall see what if it, if it changes with, without a civil war. Like, I, I don't know.1 (14m 17s):Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I I I always think of like great ideas for memes, but then I never make them. But we should do one of like, you know, a picture of that, of the Wizard of Oz and, and when we see the curtain and you know, what the internet is what has opened the curtain really, you know, kind of exposed and reality TV to some degree has exposed and documentaries have exposed like the truth of what's going on. The great unraveling is also like the great discovery of what the actual truth is.2 (14m 48s):Sure. Yes. I mean, when you, when you unravel the sweater, it's like what is under there is is like this old decrepit white dude who's flabby and, and not in shape telling the rest of us that we're fat lards and need to get it together. And that is what's happening. So I'm not, and the other thing I'm not doing, it's really interesting. It's like I've made a conscious decision to literally stop following up with people who are not following up with me.1 (15m 22s):Yes. Yeah.2 (15m 23s):I'm not following up, I'm not circling back. I'm not, I'm not hitting you up again. I'm not waiting three months and then putting it on my calendar to circle back. I'm done, I'm done with all that. I don't, I don't have anymore resources to circle back. Like, I'm not willing. Yeah. So if we have a thing and we're supposed to meet and you can't do it, or you, you keep putting it off, it's over. Unless you wanna come out of the blue and say, Hey, I realize that like we never met. Are you interested in meeting on this day at this time? And then I am okay. Because it is just my following up is taking up too much time. I'm not, I'm not1 (15m 58s):Interested taking too much time. It's, that's emotional labor too. And also, like I've gotten to the point in life where I, if, if I reach out and somebody says, Yeah, and then we go, you know, we try to firm it up and they, they ghost me, which by the way, I have done bajillions of times me to, I just understand it as the way that you're communicating to me non-verbally that you actually don't wanna be part of this thing. Correct. Which is totally fine because a lot of us over commit and can't, you know, carry out our commitments. It's fine. But I'm less inclined even after like one interaction that because the person is telling me who they are, if not who they are, how they actually feel. You know, because you make, you make, you make time for whatever you want to make2 (16m 38s):Time for. That is absolutely true. And I also feel like I am so like, okay, so we bought this house, we bought, I don't know if you know this, but we bought the second house. We didn't buy the first house. The first house was got invested with no, Oh yeah. I forgot to tell you this because I was waiting for the podcast. But, and then, anyway, that first house, I have to send you the pictures of our real house. The first house was owned by Open Door, which is a horrible private equity company that just bought up all the houses in southern California. And anyway, they communication is horrible. They treated my realtor and us like crap. And, and so we just walked away from the deal, got our earnest money back because they would not fucking fix their fucking $8,000 termite problem.2 (17m 23s):So we were like, bye, I'm done. So then we found this other house built in 1980 that I fucking adore. And so it is so dope and I am restoring it to its 1980s glory. So it's gonna be an eighties. Like every room, every room is gonna have sort of an anchor of 1980. It's a very specific year because it's like the, the seventies are still, which is why I was like, can you make my neon sign1 (17m 48s):Pink? Yes, By the way, which I did look into and I would love to do for you, but to get what we wanna put on it is like a minimum thousand dollars.2 (17m 57s):Yeah, let's not do that. Don't do that. We'll do it. Yeah. We1 (18m 1s):Could slash I was trying to do like fa slash o you know, as a, as an acronym.2 (18m 9s):Let's just do people do it all the time. People put f fa Yeah, yeah, just do that. Don't worry about it. Okay. But so, okay, so what I'm saying is like, I'm obsessed now with picking out pieces for this new home that we, we, we close on the 7th of November and we move at the end of November. And so all this to say is like, I've realized I would much rather look at giant pink velvet sectionals that are retro refurbished from the 19, from 1980 than fucking follow up and circle back with your motherfucking whatever you're gonna help me with. Yeah. I would much rather look at, oh my God, they made what in the eighties.2 (18m 51s):That is, I I would much rather like focus it on my life and like how to bring creativity and art to this our first home that we're gonna own. You know, And then fucking track you, your ass down. Who doesn't wanna hang out with me in the first place? Bye bye.1 (19m 13s):Hey,2 (19m 14s):Let run this by1 (19m 15s):You today is about rejection.2 (19m 25s):I love it.1 (19m 26s):I'm sure we've talked about it here. Oh, I'm sure we run it by each other before here. But, you know, it's one of those perennial topics. So I, I liked truly by happenstance learned about an opportunity to direct something. Not with a theater company that I used to work with, but a different or organization. And it just so happened they were doing this play and, and the person who was producing it was like, Oh, we're looking for a director who's this and this? And I go, Oh my God, that's me. Yeah. So she says, Great, you know, and submit. And I submitted and, and I had, I submitted and four months before I got a call from anybody saying, Can you come in for an interview?1 (20m 10s):And then when they did, not a call, an email from somebody who emailed me at 2:00 PM asking me if I could come at 7:00 PM2 (20m 18s):Yeah.1 (20m 19s):Now I wanted to do this. So I, I did, I hustled, I got it together. I wrote up like my, I wrote like a thesis basically on who I am as a director. And then I went to the interview with, with eight, eight or nine people there.2 (20m 35s):Oh my god.1 (20m 37s):Yeah. And you know, there was one qualification for this job that I was missing, but it wasn't something, It wasn't, to me it wasn't a deal breaker. And I was, I was very upfront, I said it right in the beginning anyway, this theater is not necessarily that high profile, which is an understatement.2 (21m 0s):I just can't believe that's too many people in a fucking interview. No, I literally wrote eight person It's too scary in person.1 (21m 8s):Yes, in person. And honestly, like even that wasn't bad because I, you know how you can just get in there and be in the zone and turn it on. And I was charming and I was, you know, an answering questions like honestly, but in a way that I felt demonstrated my competence, et cetera. Now I didn't exactly have it in my mind, like they'd be lucky to have me, but when I got rejected, I thought they would've been lucky to have me. Like, that was a mistake. What2 (21m 32s):The fuck? Did they reject you? What the fuck? Who'd they pick? What the fuck?1 (21m 36s):They, I don't know. And I've, you know, I'm trying to be politic here cuz there's people that I like who are part of this group, but it just, it just didn't work out that way. They, they, so, I don't know, I don't know who they picked, but they, but at the end of her email she said, We'd like you to re resubmit for like, this next opportunity. And so I'm working on, you know, like, it's not that if I had to do it over again, I would've done it differently. But when I really got clear with myself about things, I, you know, I was not that excited about this opportunity because it wasn't going to do anything for my career.1 (22m 21s):It really was just gonna be like an opportunity to direct and flex my muscles, which I would've loved to do. And so I, I, you know, as an actor you have to deal with rejection all the time. I just would love to know, like, actors do seem to have amazing strategies, seasoned ones, and the thing I hear the most often people say is like, after the audition, just forget it. Don't ever think about it again. But I would love to hear what your strategy2 (22m 45s):Look are. I think that for people that are, that are working and auditioning or interviewing all the time that you, that that is a really good strategy. The Brian Cranston method, which is you, you just do it and forget it. However, for those of us who don't do that every day, all day long, where it's like the one thing is more important because it's the one thing that we go out for. Like, I, like for me, I don't audition all the time. So like, when I get an opportunity from my agent, I take it really seriously and I wanna book it. And I'm, I really put in a lot of work in time. Okay, fine.2 (23m 24s):So I, it's so easy to say one and done, like forget it. But I think that that's great if that's where people are, like Brian Cranston, Okay, does he even have to audition for things anymore? I don't know. But for me, the thing that really works is what something you just said, which is to really go through and say, did I, what, what did I want about this thing? Because did I just wanna be picked? Because of course that's really valid. Like who the fuck doesn't wanna be special and picked if you say you don't, you're a sociopath like that, I don't care. You know? So I wanna be loved and picked, so that hurts on that level.2 (24m 6s):And then if I go deeper, I'm like, okay, but what is the thing that I liked about this particular interaction? Possible collaboration. Okay, well I really wanted to get more practice on what for me would be like practice on set, working out how not to be nervous on set. Okay. So I I'm gonna miss that opportunity, but like if I look at the text, did I really connect to it? Not really. So it's not that. So I think it's just like literally like what you said before, which is giving yourself and myself the time to feel my way through and think, okay, like what is upsetting about this? What is upsetting for me? It would be, if I was in your shoes, it would be like, I spent a lot of time and energy interfacing with these people.2 (24m 50s):Even if it was like, so if you, from when you submitted, even though that you weren't like thinking about it all the time, it was still hanging in the air for four months. Right? It's a four month long. Even if it's in the back of your, of, in the ethos, it's still there. Okay. So it's still like on the table. And then you finally have an interview with all these people, lovely people, whether or not it doesn't matter, you're still give, putting out so much fucking energy. And so what it feels to me, like, I would feel like, oh, like I did my best. I put myself out there, I made a case for myself and my work in front of a lot of people and I didn't get the thing.2 (25m 31s):And that just feels shitty.1 (25m 33s):It does. It just, and there's no way around it. Like sometimes things just feel shitty. And I did definitely wanna be picked the, the idea that somebody would, you know, the, like I'm a sucker for an opportunity to be picked for something. I don't, I don't necessarily like avoid things. I don't avoid things that could, you know, possibly lead in rejection. I, I, I approach those things or I try to, but it was the thing I said earlier, like, I just wanted, I just thought, oh, it'd be so fun to, to work on this, but upon reflection there are 1 million things I could be working on and would love to work on. And that would've prevented me from do, you know, for a period of time that would've prevented me from working on those things.1 (26m 16s):So it's a blessing and I what's for you will not go by you. I totally believe in that. And it was my, in fact it was my mantra that, you know, yesterday when I found out. So,2 (26m 26s):And, and, and, and to be fair, like you just found out. So like, if it was like three months from now, like I've had friends who, and I, I mean I may have had this too, where like it lasts more than 24 hours. This feeling of why did I get rejected? Why, why, why? What could I have done? Why didn't they like me? Look, it's been less than 20, you know, you're fine. Yeah. Like, you're not, Yeah. So I, I but rejection is something that is like the, the true, the true greats that I love seem to, their take on rejection is like, it gets easier the more you get rejected.1 (27m 13s):Today on the podcast, we are talking to Tina Wong, You are in for such a treat. Tina is amazing. Not only does she star and has starred on almost all of the soap operas, you've seen her in television film, She's an actor, a writer, a director, a producer. She does film television. She's a voiceover artist too. She does theater. She truly, truly, truly does it all. We really loved talking to her and we hope you enjoy our conversation with Tina Juan,0 (27m 47s):I'm2 (27m 47s):Not totally losing, losing it. Anyway, you survived and you went, you did a lot of things. I, I mean, first we're gonna get to it all, but can I just say, and I can because this is, this is, this is the platform to say it. I love that you were on two soap operas and more people, maybe more than two. Were you on more than two or just4 (28m 7s):Yeah, yeah,2 (28m 8s):Because Yeah, go ahead.4 (28m 11s):No, most recently just two, but yes.2 (28m 13s):Okay. So here's the thing about that is that I don't care. We went to theater school and I know a lot of people think that that is, or some people talk shit about soap operas in terms of acting. Yeah. I have never seen or heard actors work as hard as my friends that have been on soap operas. And in terms of the pace and the pacing and the, the amount of work that is required of, of, of actors at soap operas a stunning. So I just love it because I think that it is like, from what my, what I know about it, it's like a gymnastics routine that people are doing on those sets. So we'll go, I just wanna say that I like give full props to that because it's not a joke soap opera work.2 (28m 55s):It is not a joke. Thank4 (28m 56s):You. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Shut2 (28m 58s):Out. Yeah, thank you.1 (29m 0s):So I'll just ask then, pursuant to that, because I think you are the first person we're interviewing who was on a soap opera, and I would love to know everything about the process of your audition and how you, Cause I've heard, I, I used to, I used to, when I was in high school, my show was days and I read soap, Opera Digest and everything. But I would love to know, like I've heard some people describe it as more of a, it can sometimes have a feeling of more of a regular job since it's like daytime hours, et cetera. But I would love to hear what your experience of just the work of being on a soap opera.4 (29m 34s):Well, first of all, I love everyone that I work with. I'm, I'm on days, so, but you're2 (29m 40s):Still on it. Oh my, my gosh.4 (29m 41s):I'm still on it. I'm still on it. So in fact, I'm like shooting six episodes next week. So I'm, I'm on a little break in Canada, just like here having a little vacation before we go.2 (29m 54s):Good for you. Oh my gosh. Six in a week. It's like Saturday Night Live. What's happening? Okay. How did you get on these? What was your first one that you were on, first of all? Was4 (30m 2s):It the first one? The first one I was on was I think days. And then when I first came to LA and then I did General Hospital and then I did Young and the Restless, and then I did, then I was on Bold and the Beautiful and Days at the same time during the Pandemic. And then now I'm on days Doing days.2 (30m 24s):Oh my Tina, Tina Bow Tina. This is, this is, this is incredible because what this tells me is that you are extremely obviously talented, but we know that because I've seen you on Rezo and aisles, all the things, but it's also, you are, it must be really wonderful to work with because people keep bringing you back and back and back. So you must be like a real sort of team player, which I bet is part of your theater tra like you are an ensemble. Yes. Right?4 (30m 53s):Yes. I think the best part about doing any of this is the collaboration part. You know, when people don't want, it's funny when people don't like notes and don't like getting notes. I'm always like, I love notes. Like I can't just do this on my own and act in a bag. Like I need, I need you to like tell me what's going on. What do you see that I don't see, you know, all of that is, that's the best part. The collaboration. Yeah.1 (31m 14s):So I'm still eager to know a little bit more about like how you, how it started with your audition and how you experience the day to day work of being a soap opera for actor Sure. As opposed to any other type of actor.4 (31m 26s):Sure. Well, I, I got the audition to, to go in for days and I read for Marni Satya, who, I hope I'm saying her name right, who's the casting director. And it went well. And she said, you know, we have a call back. And I said, great. I can't remember if that was the next day or if that was the same day. It may have been the same day. And she told me to just wait, I can't remember. Cuz the producers were upstairs and they wanted to do producer sessions right away and, or it may have been the next day and she, they sent sides, you know, again, but I just assumed they were the same audition and it was like 14 pages. It was like a lot of pages. But just so you know, soap scripts are, you know, one and a half spacing.4 (32m 9s):Oh yeah. So it's not single spacing, but2 (32m 11s):Still, still it's a dialogue. Listen, I, I'm like an under 10. I like always do an under 10 because that's my jam. I have trouble with that. I don't, Oh my, you must be, you're okay. So you get all these pages and you assumed it was the same, but I'm guessing it wasn't the same.4 (32m 27s):So I show up and she wanted just read all of us ladies that came back in to, to for the producer session and just like talk to us and all that kind of stuff. And she said, So you got the new scenes? And I said, New scenes, No. And then she said, Oh well we gotta go, we gotta go up to the producers right now. So we all walked up and she goes, Don't worry, I'll put you last, you know, don't hear the new scripts.2 (32m 51s):Oh my god. The new scripts. I'm peeing my pants right here. Okay, go ahead. And I4 (32m 56s):Don't remember how different it was, but I, I think it was quite different.2 (32m 60s):Like,4 (33m 1s):And she said, just take, you know, whatever time we'll put you last. And there was like maybe four, four women that, excuse me, my nose is running, but four women ahead of me and I just studied. Oh2 (33m 12s):My God. You were like, okay, nyu. Okay, tons of Shakespeare, memorization don't fail me now. Right. So, okay, so you go, were you nervous? Which it's4 (33m 23s):Harder when you get older.2 (33m 25s):No shit. Okay. Right. So you go in the room and there's producers there, obviously it's a producer's session. And is the casting lady still in the room with you?4 (33m 34s):She, she's still in the room and it was only one producer, the executive producer, so it's just him. But it was a big conference room. Anyway, when I was waiting to go in, one of the actresses, like, I guess they overheard what had happened and this, this another actor said, You didn't get the sides? And I said, No, you didn't get the new scenes. I said, No. And she said, That's sucks. That's terrible. I'm like, Yeah, I'm just gonna study. Yeah, I'm2 (34m 3s):Just studying like, be quiet. Like leave me alone. Right,4 (34m 7s):Right.2 (34m 7s):Not helpful. Not helpful. Not helpful.4 (34m 10s):I'm, I'm not that person. I don't compete with anybody in the audition room. I compete with myself and I think maybe that's part of my success. I just, I'm hard enough on myself. I don't need to add like everyone else has a distraction. But it was really interesting. So, so then he, they called me in and it went really well. I mean, it was just this huge conference room with a giant table in between us. So it was like, not like a theater setup or an audition room, A normal audition room. And it went really well. I mean, I think I sobbed, I think I was shaking, I think like all of those things. And maybe it was from the, that cold read sort of nerves that just let me just go with my, just go with my intuition, you know?4 (34m 53s):Yeah,1 (34m 54s):Right. No time to think and obsess and, and worry about it. Right. Do you get to, like, considering how much dialogue you have to memorize every single day for the next day's work, is there any room for improvisation or do you, are you supposed to say it word for word?4 (35m 9s):Supposed to say it word for word? I think there's a little bit of leeway. You know, the longer you've been on the show, they, they don't, you can't improv for sure. It's all written, but, you know, if you get a the instead of and or you know, those little things, the pace is so quick that they're not gonna redo the, and we usually get one to two takes. Right. We don't get multiple takes.2 (35m 30s):Oh my, my God.4 (35m 32s):It moves at an incredible speed. So when you said what you said about soap acting and soap actors, I really have a tremendous respect. I think a lot of people like to put judgment on high art and low art. And I, I don't really get the point of that, but, but they, people love it. People watch it, it gives them a sense of comfort. And the actors that I've met are so hardworking and so talented, like very good actors. They're just in the job that they're in. You know what I mean? And a lot of it's a lot of this soap acting is soap work has gotten better. So1 (36m 5s):Absolutely. I would go so far as to say that's probably a sexist thing that soap, soap operas have whatever reputation that they do because you know, anything that a lot of women like people tend to denigrate. Right. Okay. So did you always want to be an actor? Did you always want to go to theater school? What was your journey when you were picking colleges?4 (36m 33s):Wow. You know, I, being a Asian American woman, I didn't really see that it would be a possible career path for me. I was like a secret artist, you know, like inside I really wanted to be on the stage and I really wanted to act and all of that. But I didn't have examples really. I think growing up I had like for a short stint Margaret Show and, and Lucy Lou and you know, very few and then like Chinese actresses that I knew of. But it was a tough journey. So I secretly auditioned for LaGuardia music and art and performing arts in New York City. You know, the fame high school? Oh2 (37m 12s):Yeah. Oh yeah. I know that you went there and I'm wondering, like you seek, what does it mean to secretly audition where you didn't tell your folks and you were like, I'm out.4 (37m 20s):Didn't tell my folks. Yeah, I mean, how old are you when you start high school? I mean, I was probably, Oh yeah, what are we, 12? No, 13. 13.1 (37m 28s):13. I, No, 13. Really young, really4 (37m 30s):Young.1 (37m 31s):13. Do that on your own.4 (37m 32s):So I, you know, I grew up in New York City, so I took the subway up. I I applied to audition and, well first I was in the, the fine arts program, so, which they also didn't like. And I had an amazing art teacher in junior high school who mentored me to make, make a portfolio and all this kind of stuff. So I'd gone up and did the art test without telling my parents. And I, and I got into the art program. Wait a minute2 (37m 55s):Differently. You didn't get into the, you went for fine art. For, for and you, what do you mean the art test? What the hell is that? That sounds horrifying. What do you mean an art test?4 (38m 7s):So, well I didn't, I didn't audition yet for theater cause I think it was too scary at that moment for me. So first I did the art program because I was encouraged by a grown up teacher who was like, thought she saw talent in me, which was very amazing to have a teacher like that. And the art test was, you had to have a full portfolio, like at least 10 or 15 pieces in a portfolio. So you carry that big old thing. Like imagine a 12 year old kid carrying a portfolio uptown. I mean it's just, it's, it's crazy when I think about it. And then you get there and there's like a still life setup and there's all the, everybody sits around on desks and you have to draw, you have to draw the still life,2 (38m 48s):My god, all the pressure. And4 (38m 49s):Then they bring in, and then they bring in a model and then you have to draw the model2 (38m 55s):A. This is like my nightmare of like any kind of that where you're like, it's a test. Anxiety, high pressure, pressure, creativity, high pressure on the spot, creativity. I would've been passed out. I would've passed out.4 (39m 10s):I don't think so. I mean, look, we we're all, it's a good prep for like auditioning and callbacks and just we're al you're always under pressure. We're under pressure right now doing the podcast. But, but yeah, I mean I think growing up in New York you're constantly under pressure. So I, I maybe I was used to it for that reason. But2 (39m 30s):I do have to say Tina, Tina, there is something about you. Yes, ma'am. That is like super badass, tough, even just the way you present and your voice in the best possible way. So like, and I wonder if that is a mix of, you know, New Yorker, Asian American parents. My, my guess is I'm the par a daughter of an immigrant. Your daughter of an immigrants. Right. Of immigrants. Yeah. Okay. So there's like a toughness about you and like all I could, like you're a badassery. Do you think it is New York? What is it? Where does that come from? Because you should play, you, you should play an assassin and a like a, like an action hero in, in like huge films.2 (40m 13s):Why isn't that? We gotta make that happen today anyway,4 (40m 16s):So let's just call Kevin Fig and just let him know like, I'm available. Well, I, I think you touched on it. I think it's all those things that make up who I am. I, I, I am tough. I am tough but I like, I I, but I don't see myself necessarily that way. I'm like, you know, I think we've, I think I spent actually a lot of years trying to counteract that tough expectation by being like smiley and sweet and doing the things that I think women tend to do. Women identifying women tend to do, like by softening themselves and being smaller in the room. And I think over the years as you get older you hit 40 and you're like, fuck that.4 (40m 56s):Oh, am I allowed to curse on this? Okay. You just kinda like, absolutely, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm fucking over this. But I think it's all those things. I think definitely New York and always having your defenses up and always having an awareness around you and having parents that worked extremely hard and sacrificed a lot and knowing that I could sacrifice more. I think that's also part of like surviving as an artist. Like do I need to eat that fancy thing today? Do I need to have that new outfit? Like no, I, if I want to succeed then those are the things I need to let go of in order to invest in my career.4 (41m 36s):So yeah, I think a lot of it is identifying as an Asian American female, I think having immigrant parents for sure that work really hard. I think New York City and all of its dangerous that I survived. So I survived theater school and New York City and now I'm trying to survive LA1 (41m 56s):Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Lot of surviving happening. So at what point did you, well obviously you told your parents that you applied and that you got in for the fine arts program. Yeah. They obviously had to get on board with that at some point, cuz you're still doing it. But then tell us about the switch into acting.4 (42m 17s):So it was my first year as a, as the, you know, a drawing, painting, sculptor. And I just found it really lonesome. Like I, I I was like a little emo kid, you know what I mean? Like all this angst I had just had so much angst cause I grew, I had a rough childhood and I, I just found, found myself in a little bit of a depression as a freshman in high school, which is I guess not that rare, but I just kept looking at the theater department and seeing these kids getting to like fully express themselves and be around others like them. You know, painting is a solitary thing I think like writing, I don't know if you have that experience, the two of you. Cause I read that you're both writers and I write as well and it's a very different world you're in.4 (43m 3s):So I decided to just do it apply to the theater department and that process first it's like two monologues, right? Contemporary and a classic.2 (43m 14s):Do you remember what you did? Do you remember what you did? Oh, it's okay.4 (43m 18s):Oh boy.2 (43m 19s):I bet was great. Whatever it was.4 (43m 22s):The modern piece, I don't remember the name of it or, or where it was from, but it was, it was a girl witnessing her parents', her parents' divorce and, but going through her house and talking about how the home represented the family, you know, and, and like where things belonged in the house and how those things are gonna be moved and that means their family no longer existed, exists. So it was a really beautiful piece. I can't remember where it was from. And then the other one was Shakespeare and I'm sure I did a terrible job. It may have been1 (44m 2s):Saying4 (44m 2s):I don't remember the Shakespeare. Yeah, I don't remember the Shakespeare. That's funny.2 (44m 6s):Yeah. But I bet you know, you go, you know, you know4 (44m 10s):It was Porsche, the quality and mercy is not strange.2 (44m 14s):Oh yeah, that's1 (44m 15s):Exactly what I did. Terrible.2 (44m 20s):Wait a minute. So we have, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm just picturing both you two for Gina. I'm wondering, I'm thinking it was to get into DePaul's theater school, right? Okay. And Tina, yours was even younger cuz you were, you were like 15, 14 playing Porsche. Yes. Oh that's fantastic. 14 year old Porsche's all around. Okay, so you must have, okay, so then what did you did, did it go on from there? Like you did your monologues? Oh,4 (44m 46s):So yeah, so then you do that and then there's a call back. So you go to another room with a different auditor and I'm trying to make sure I don't blend my high school audition to my college audition. But then we went from that callback to a screen test. So you to do a screen test and then wait,2 (45m 4s):Wait, A screen test for LaGuardia? Yeah. Like4 (45m 8s):At, at the time. At the time, Yeah. I remember that because I remember they said you have to go to good screen, so there's like a camera and you whatever on camera audition. And then from there, oh I, I remember there was five steps. I can't remember what the, I remember we may have had to go into the theater and do like a, like the theater exercises and movement stuff and then we had to do a interview one-on-one interview with the head of the department. So it was, you know, a lot of steps to,1 (45m 39s):This is so far tougher than it was for our, the audition. Like we had to do those other things you're describing. But we did not, I don't think we did a one-on-one interview.2 (45m 48s):No. Was1 (45m 49s):It nerve wracking?4 (45m 51s):Yeah, I mean as a kid I, I guess I didn't really like, I didn't, maybe didn't sink in that I was, that that's what was happening. But I just, you know, followed the line. I, whatever they told me where I needed to go, I just went and did it. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was a lot more steps than my college audition as well as well.2 (46m 9s):So, So you got in, did they just tell you I'm the spot Tina or were you, how did it work? And then were you, did you tell, did your parents know you were switching?4 (46m 20s):No, they didn't know. No, they didn't know. No, I think I, I think I just got a letter. I don't, I don't know if, I don't think they, I think they gave me the sense that it was a good fit, but I don't think I knew until later. Cause it's like thousands of kids in New York City, you know what I mean? Right, right. Yeah. Auditioning. So,2 (46m 39s):So1 (46m 40s):I'm curious about whether the, like what, what the pipeline situation was from LaGuardia to conservatories. Cuz a lot of kids who get training young or get working young don't go for theater school because they figure like, well I already know what I'm doing. So like what, what, how was it at LaGuardia? Did mostly kids go and pursue performing arts in college or what?4 (47m 5s):You know, I think a handful of us did. But honestly I, I think a lot of people didn't continue on. So it was kind of a weeding out process. You know, a lot of people went into who poli political science. A lot of people went into, you know, a lot of different things. I mean a lot of people I, I remember I went to high school with are doing amazing things currently. I mean, one of, one of the girls I was friends with, she's like a pundit on cnn, like, like one of the leading, she went into politics and then became like a on camera. So those two worlds sort of merged. But yeah, no, I, I think I ended up applying to four schools.4 (47m 45s):Four conservatories. So SUNY purchase Rutgers, I don't remember nyu. And what was,2 (47m 55s):I'm gonna just throw out Carnegie Mellon.4 (47m 57s):Carnegie Mellon. I think it was Carnegie. I, no, no, it was Boston University. I actually, it was interesting. I didn't, I didn't, I was so, I don't know. I just, I didn't do Julliard and I didn't do Carnegie Mellon. I don't know why. Oh, I know why Pittsburgh. I didn't wanna go to Pittsburgh. Sorry if, if either of you have a fondness for Pittsburgh, but I didn't wanna be there.2 (48m 23s):Never been. And also, I have a friend that went to the Carnegie Mellon program in NI started in 1993 and they weighed them at the, in their acting classes, they weighed them. So I'm glad we didn't go. I mean, you know, whatever. We missing, not missing out. Forget, forget Pittsburgh. Also the weighing, Fuck you. So, okay, so you, you auditioned, Did you do like the urda, like all of them at once, Tina? Or did you go, how did it work for your colleges? And then tell us how, how you made your choice.4 (48m 57s):So yeah, I think I did do them. You know, they, they set up the appointments to the different places. I remember that I really wanted to go to SUNY purchase. I do remember that because Israel Hicks was the head of the department then. And I remember thinking, oh he's an amazing teacher to study under. And it was such a small conservatory program. So I went up there that, that, by that point I did tell my parents I was gonna theater school and they were not happy about it. I mean, imagine they're immigrants, right? They came across the world not speaking the language, giving up everything, working very, very hard to make a better life for their children. And then their one child that didn't go to CO that is going to college wants to be an artist.4 (49m 38s):I mean that's like pretty brutal for them to absorb. But yeah, I, You were saying when you leave high school, like why, why go into the theater school? I, because I, both my brothers had not gone to college. My older brothers and my parents were, you know, had immigrated here. And like, I just, I felt like college was really important. I felt like getting an education was really important. And maybe, I remember thinking at the time, imagine being 17 and thinking I'm ruining my career. Cuz I thought it was gonna slow down my career because I did have one. We have an industry night at the end of high school and I got a manager, a New York City manager and I was freelancing with all these different agents and for like, the few months that I was not gonna leave New York.4 (50m 25s):And wait2 (50m 26s):A minute, wait a minute, wait. A I gotta go back here cuz I'm in awe. Gina, are you in awe? Cause I'm in awe that you, you had an industry night in high school and you got a manager from that. You're how old it did? 17.4 (50m 41s):17, Yeah.2 (50m 42s):You have a manager and you're freelancing. What did that feel like? I mean I'm like that. I'm like in awe. Were you like I am the shit? Are you like, this is just what I do. You're like a young, like a 17 year old professional actor. What in the hell?4 (50m 57s):I think, I think I was kind of like feeling like my dreams were coming true in a lot of ways, but I don't think I was secure in it. I definitely for sure was like, this could go away tomorrow. Am I doing the right things? You know, that manager at the time, she was lovely, but it, she did say to me like, you should move to Los Angeles. And at that point I just wanted to go to college and it, and most of the options were on the east coast that I wanted to, to, you know, except for Boston University. Well, Boston's east coast too. But she just said like, Well I just feel like if you move to the west to LA like later you're gonna be over the hill. I was 17, oh my god I was 17. God.4 (51m 36s):And2 (51m 37s):That's, that's such projection. It's such projection. It's all, I mean they mean even if they mean well, it's still projection. So you had this manager, but you were, and you were auditioning, I'm assuming in New York City. Yeah, Yeah. But then, but you really wanted to go to college and so4 (51m 55s):I really wanted to go2 (51m 56s):To college. Okay, so you wanted to go to suny. What happened there? Why, how did you end up at nyu?4 (52m 2s):Oh, so I got in to purchase, which was, which was a tough choice because SUNY purchases, like at the time was so cheap for in-state, like residents. And then, but I, I can't explain this to you at all, but I went, when I went and auditioned for nyu, I fell asleep at the audition. I remember in the waiting room. I just like, kind of not at often, I just think I just needed to be relaxed, you know? So cuz there was2 (52m 31s):All these like, what a power move.4 (52m 35s):I don't know if I was just like, you know, overwhelmed or, I don't think it was overwhelming, but I just felt like I just needed to relax. And there was like, you know, a bunch of young act New York City actors. And at the time NYU was a top conservatory. And I think I, there was like all these young actors that were like, like doing all the warmups, which I believe in a hundred percent. I do it before shows, but like, but it intimidated me in some way cuz I was like, well I didn't start acting until I was much older. I mean, I was young, but you know, in New York it felt like everybody's a kid actor that was enacting. So, I don't know, I, I fell asleep and then they woke me up and said, it's your turn.4 (53m 18s):I was like, Oh, okay. And I went in and I remember in all my auditions I did this weird thing, which, which I don't know if it's an an i, I took my shoes off in every audition. Like I, I felt like I needed to be grounded. Oh my2 (53m 31s):God. It's a power move. It's a power move. Listen to me, anyone, this is how I feel now watching youngsters. I mean, I don't hold auditions, but when, when someone has a specific bold take on, on how they're going to enter a room, they, they're yards ahead of everybody else. You made a bold move, Tina and I, I support it. I support it. You, it's like you, you had a take. Good for you.4 (54m 1s):I, I think I just needed to take care of myself. And I, I think at the time I didn't really have a lot of protection and people taking care of me in that way as a young artist. So I think I just had my own process, but part of that was being weird and saying, I need to take my shoes off and taking off my shoes. I've never told anyone that before. So Yeah, I did all my, It's1 (54m 23s):So related. This is some related to you being tough and a badass, because I think kind of what I'm hearing is however, the, I mean, I don't know necessarily the right way to say this, but you haven't waited for permission. Like you didn't wait for permission from your parents to audition for this school and you didn't, you know, ask them. Is it okay if I take you, You just did a lot, You've done a lot of things and maybe it's because you have felt like you've had to do it this vein on your own since you didn't have any family members who, who, who pursued this career. But I wanna know, Oh, sorry. You were actually, I interrupted you, you were in the middle of finishing your audition story.4 (55m 3s):No, I, I don't Where were we? I don't off.2 (55m 6s):Okay, so you That's ok. That's ok. We, I'm, I'm clocking. So you are there, you, you, you did all your auditions and you said you don't know how to explain it, but when you got into nyu, when you did your NYU audition?4 (55m 20s):Well, when I was waiting in the waiting room, when I fell asleep, that's where I was going. I just felt like I belong there. I just felt like I belonged there. I was just like, this is where I need to be. Even though purchase was my first choice and purchase at the time was very competitive. They took like 10 people in that year. And I, and it would've been cheap. Really ch that's one thing, NYU's not cheap, but I for sure, I just had this overwhelming sense that this is where I needed to be. And yeah, I, I did the audition for Beth Turner, who was amazing, amazing, I think she was a dean at the time, but auditor. And then she asked me what studio I wanted to be in and I told her Playwrights Horizons, or I think Adler is what I chose.4 (56m 11s):And she asked me why playwrights cuz she thought I should be placed in experi what was then called experimental theater wing, which is very physical. So I understand it now. She saw in me that I'm a very physical person and I told her, this is the hilarious part, I told her playwrights was my number one choice because you can study, directing, acting and design, which is what I ended up doing. And I said, I need a fallback plan, which is2 (56m 38s):Like4 (56m 39s):Directing and design, like great fallback. But2 (56m 43s):Here's, here's the thing, here's the thing, The other thing that I'm seeing is that you knew fallback plan or not, you wanted to study more than one thing. And most people go in there saying, Oh, I just wanna be a movie star so I have to go into Atlantic cuz David Mammo will cast me in. Like, you wanted a more broad sense of Yeah. You, you were like, we have several actors on the show like this where it's, they're like more renaissance people in terms of writing, acting, directing, and they're, and they're true. Like for me what it is, is a true artist instead of an actor. It's a, it's more of a collaborator and doing, making art in a collaborative setting.2 (57m 23s):And it happens to be for you right now, acting and maybe writing and maybe directing if you have or something. So I, I love that. And also my NYU audition, I went without having picked a, a studio. So they asked me where you wanna go? And I said, I have no idea. Well, they didn't let my ass in, nor should they have.4 (57m 45s):Oh, no, I, you know, I appreciate you saying that. I mean, I think when I say fallback plan, I don't really think that is what it is. Cause I didn't think, obviously, you know, it's all a risk that we're taking. It really is true that I was very, I'm very interested in all aspects of storytelling. And I did tell her that, She asked me why directing, and I said, I am, I am incredibly stimulated in a different way when thinking about directing and how a story can be told and how it's structured and, and all of that. And, and I said, but it's not necessarily my heart. My heart is acting, but my mind is very connected to directing when she asked me that question.4 (58m 29s):So yeah. So cool.1 (58m 31s):Yeah. So you mentioned earlier your manager and saying you're gonna be over the hill and so forth. So we spent a lot of time talking about the whack messages that we got, especially being, you know, nineties, mid nineties, late nineties about like what you can and can't do and who you are and who you aren't and how you come across. And, and sometimes those opinions are wildly off base and sometimes there's smack Right on. What, what about you? Where did you fall on that with terms of like the, the feedback people was were giving you?4 (59m 3s):You know, it's, I think I'm still dealing with that today. I mean, I I, the feedback was people couldn't tell if I was a leading lady or if I was a character actor. And I will say they probably thought I was a character actor just because I was a woman of color. You know what I mean? Like, you're gonna be the best friend,2 (59m 27s):Right? It's because they couldn't see beyond their own biases and the biases of the industry. And look, I think some of that is a product of the environment those people are in, but also nobody challenged. And that's what I'm ask. I feel like people are at least starting to do now challenged why someone couldn't do something. So Yeah, sure. So they told you, Oh, we think you're gonna be like, you know, Sandra Bullock's best friend or like, whatever, what the sidekick, because probably because you, you were an Asian American woman, you know? Yeah.4 (1h 0m 2s):Nice. Or you're the nerd or you know, put on some glasses and now you're like, network nerdy, you know? So it's, it's, it's, How did you ask me? How did I deal with it? Is that the question?1 (1h 0m 15s):I'm just curious. Like, people usually have an anecdote or two about like, you know, I just told it on the podcast last week that, you know, I went to this thing when I was in high school, like how to get in the business. And the only thing I remember the guy saying is, thin is in, and you're either gonna get thin or you're not gonna be in, Like, it was just very binary. And by the way, that was true. Like he wasn't, he wasn't saying anything that wasn't true, but it doesn't matter because I internalized that message and then I never wanted to be in film. Then I was like, I'll, okay, that means I can never be in film and tv. Yeah. And I never even thought twice about it until like two weeks ago. That's when I remembered that.4 (1h 0m 55s):That's so heartbreaking. That's so heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, my parents even honestly said, you can't be an actor. You're, you're Asian, you know, there's nobody like you. There's no, there's not many women like you, you're not gonna be successful. You're gonna be hungry all the time. You're never gonna, you know, and you know, they weren't totally wrong. They weren't trying to hurt me. They, you know, they, I think they were trying to protect me, but ultimately it hurt me. Do you know what I mean? It hurt my confidence, it hurt, you know? So a lot of my defense mechanism is to have confidence, if that makes any sense.2 (1h 1m 28s):Well that's, that's what I'm getting is that in response to the binary, you were able to go, Well, no, I'm gonna actually take care of my own self and take my own shoes off if I want to. Actually, I'm still gonna move forward and be like, I just love the idea of a woman of color being on a soap opera as one of the, like a recurring main characters. Because soap operas to me, in terms of casting, have not in the past been known to really embrace all kinds of things. But here you are on like Americana, which is soaps to me. And I mean, you have telenovelas and whatever, but the, but American soap operas are a thing and you're on one.2 (1h 2m 10s):So I know the word trailblazer is so overused, but I feel like you're a trailblazer. And what people fail to remember about trailblazers is, is that it's dirty, sweaty, hard work because you're literally in the dirt forging a path for yourself and perhaps those that come after you. Do you feel like that when you're working, that you're, and it's not fair to put it on people like women of color or women or othered people, but do you feel like in some way you're blazing a trail for other folks? Or do you just are just like, No, I just, I wanna work fuck the rest.4 (1h 2m 46s):No, I'm, I appreciate that question. I, I feel hopeful that that's what's happening. Do I think about it consciously when I'm working? Not necessarily, but I do intend to, if I can give other people opportunities, like if I don't suit a role, if they're like, Well this person's Vietnamese, will you audition? I pass. And I usually, you know, I've played other Asian races before because there are limited amount of roles. But I also believe like you have to get to a certain level and have a certain level of accomplishments in order to open the door for other people. So I will, I have, like I said, I'm passing on this, but this is this actress that you should look at. And I've sent names and you know, things, little things like that within my power.4 (1h 3m 30s):And I'm not trying to say like I'm a trailblazer or anything like that. I'm just trying to do the work, like you said, and take the opportunities when I can and try to do my best at it. And then hopefully set as some kind of example. I don't know what, but it is a lot.2 (1h 3m 45s):And I think that like trailblazing is, is is done primarily because there is something doesn't exist, which we want to see existing. And so then we have to do it on our own. Like, I agree that like I never woke up and thought, Oh, one day I'm gonna be like, do doing all this work. I just thought, no, like why doesn't this exist? Why can't plus size or Latinas do this? And then I went ahead and tried to make that space. But yeah, I feel like most trailblazers I know and iconic class or whatever don't like have that intention, right?2 (1h 4m 25s):We're not like, Oh, I'm gonna change. It's more like, No, this shit is wrong. It should exist and I'm gonna participate in change, right? Like a change maker.4 (1h 4m 34s):I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take space basically and not be apologetic for it. And, and that's a very hard thing to, to come to, you know, It's like, it's still, I wanna apologize all the time, you know what I mean? But that's my instinct. But because I wanna be a fair person. But I think ultimately it's like, no, I, I should claim the space and not be apologetic for it. I mean, I had a teacher in theater school and you're saying, What did people put on you who said to me, Tina, he said something very complimentary about a project I had just finished and something like, you know, good marks or something and said like, you're, you're very talented or whatever. And then he said, What I love about you is that you shatter stereotypes and on the, the face of it, you would think that's a positive thing, but I think it put a heavy weight on me.4 (1h 5m 24s):I think I felt this sort of, that's not what I'm, you're you're putting, that means you're putting so much on me when you even look at me, there's a, there's an expectation of you have to be excellent all the time. You have to be so good all the time. And if you not, if you're not excellent, people are gonna go, Oh, Asian women can't act, or Asian women shouldn't be doing this. And so there was a pressure, like I felt, wow. Like I guess he was trying to say something nice, but ultimately it just put this sort of,2 (1h 5m 51s):No, it puts more work. It's more work,4 (1h 5m 54s):More work. And it also puts like, you see me as a certain lens. You can't just see my work. You're seeing something else. Yeah. You know what I mean

This week the boys wrote a movie that is a little spin on the classic film RoboCop. In this version the cop is the bad guy and the criminals are the good guys, and the robot cop is played by Joe Biden. Starring: Joe Biden, Brian Cranston, Danzig, Tupac, Elvis, Frankie Muniz, and Joe pesci.

Entertainment News - Brian Cranston & Nick Cannon's New Baby Name & Ticket InflationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Super Crosstalk with Travis and Sliwa - Andy Kamenetzky in for John. The Dodgers Tyler Anderson almost got a no hitter but Shohei Othani played spoiler with a triple.. Brian Cranston calls in to talk about the Dodgers and his latest movie. Also, somehow we hear Momo from either Mason's or Andy's computer, we will never know. Plus, WHEEL OF QUESTIONS - What age would you like to stay in if you had the chance to? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Full Hour | In today's second hour, Giordano leads off by updating a topic we discussed yesterday, telling of a rash of vandalism directed toward pro-life pregnancy centers, teasing an upcoming guest who wrote a piece on it for RealClearPolitics. Then, Dom, Dan and Jim have some fun discussing the upcoming Dom Giordano Day, with Jim breaking out some of his best impressions for a tease for the big day. Then, Giordano transitions into a conversation centered on the economy, playing back clips from Biden administrations officials hoping to reframe the blame away from the President. Then, Neal Zoren rejoins the Dom Giordano Program to tell us what's worth watching on television. First, though, Zoren puts on his hat as a theater critic, offering his review of Fairview, a new play appearing at the Wilma Theater, in which a character asks for all the white audience members to leave their seat so the cast members could speak to black audience members. Then, Neal Zoren tells what he's looking forward to in TV, revealing a new series starring Brian Cranston called Jerry and Marge Go Large on Paramount+. (Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images)

Neal Zoren rejoins the Dom Giordano Program to tell us what's worth watching on television. First, though, Zoren puts on his hat as a theater critic, offering his review of Fairview, a new play appearing at the Wilma Theater, in which a character asks for all the white audience members to leave their seat so the cast members could speak to black audience members. Then, Neal Zoren tells what he's looking forward to in TV, revealing a new series starring Brian Cranston called Jerry and Marge Go Large on Paramount+. (Photo by Getty Images)

Billy Blanks Jr. BIO: Self-taught and working professionally from his youth, Billy Blanks Jr. has gained much exposure and experience in the world of dance and entertainment. As a young teen he choreographed school musical productions and created after school dance groups. As Billy's notoriety grew, he earned roles as a dancer in music videos with Paula Abdul, Madonna, Celine Dion, Crystal Method (directed by Gore Verbinski), Quincy Jones, and Babyface. His credits include TV appearances on Dr. Oz, Meredith Vieria, The Ellen Show, Home & Family, American Dreams with Alicia Keys, The Practice, Sister Sister, Kids Incorporated, Homeboys From Outer Space, My Cousin Skeeter, and The Tonight Show. Billy starred as Tyrone Jackson in the US and European touring companies of the Broadway musical Fame. He went on to direct and choreograph the WeSparkle Take II Celebrity Concert with Tom Hanks, Jason Alexander, Brian Cranston, Joey Lawrence, Britney Spears, Michael Chiklis, Hal Sparks, the cast of Will & Grace, and more. He also choreographed the end sequence for the movie I Hope You Dance. Billy made his directorial debut in NYC at Madison Square Garden directing One Night With The Stars starring Broadway Legends Betty Buckley, Lainie Kazan, Telly Leung, Mandy Gonzalez, Constantine, Tom Bergeron, Jordin Sparks, Noah Galvin, Fran Drescher, and many more. Billy was the Artistic Director of the newly renovated historical Wall Street Theater in Norwalk Connecticut. Over time, Billy has become the face for the new generation of fitness with his revolutionary dance program, Dance It Out! He made history on the hit TV show Shark Tank after turning down a deal proposed by Mark Cuban and Daymond John when the latter shark left the tank and talked Billy into taking the deal. The result was his business Dance It Out® (DIO®) becoming the fastest growing fitness based dance program in America! Dance It Out is also now a new Hit Lifestyle Talk show on The Lifetime Network. Billy is the son of Tae Bo® creator Billy Blanks. In October 2015, Billy Blanks Jr. launched the MoveTube Network where he produces and directs feel good workouts, motivational content, and other inspirational videos featuring today's hottest dancers and celebrities. Billy is the host/creator of televisions first Moving Talks Show that premiered on the LIFETIME Network

Bell is DANGER at the door. Doug(enberg) spills the beans on an amazing show he's working on. TRUE STORIES ABOUT: RJ MITTE, BRIAN CRANSTON, OCTAVIA SPENCER, ROBBIE ODENKIRK See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sabe aquele ator lá??? Aquele, que fez aquele filme de guerra lá, que tem aquele outro carinha de barba como protagonista... ...poxa, o carinha lá que fez também aquele outro filme de herói que tinha o rapazinho daquela comédia adolescente... Pois é, se pra gente que tem 3 ou 4 neurônio já é difícil guardar os nomes dos atores realmente importantes - que ganham muito dinheiro, batem nos funcionários e come as mulher tudo -, imagina lembrar dos coadjuvantes? Tá cheio de ator por aí que você já viu várias vezes, toda vez que o cara aparece ele manda bem, você não faz nem ideia qual o nome do cara e aí ele aparece em outro filme, manda bem pra caramba de novo, você se lembra dele mas nunca registra o nome do cara. É deles que nós vamos falar hoje!! Quem são os Augustos Madeiras desse mundo, que carregam os Vladimir Brichtas nas costas? Quem são os Stephens Tobolowskis da indústria que andam, pra que os Bill Murrays possam correr? Quem são os Johnny Sins ... Bom, você já entendeu o princípio. Nesse episódio: Jesse Heiman, o figurante mais famoso do mundo; Quem é Lucas Pica Pau? O nerdola David Cross; Um mestre chamado Augusto Madeira; Ken Hudson Campbell: você se lembra de quem era o papai Noel de "Esqueceram de Mim"? Wayne Knight em papéis de gordo; O elenco gigante de armagedon; Michael Clark Duncan: a morte do gigante gentil vegetariano; O caminho reverso de Rodrigo Santoro; Bruna Marquezine já leu o besouro azul? Jesse Plemons e sua cara de saudável; Kevin James, o gordinho que mudou de nome; As muitas mortes de Sean Bean A trupe de atores ingleses; A trupe de comédia de Adam Sandler; os 128 anos filmes de Judy Dench; Atores picas que a gente desconhece por ser jóvi; Carlos Dançarino; A treta de Jon Snow: afinal, quem foi o protagonista de Game of Thrones? Qual o nome do Mr. Bean? A sensatez de Rick Moranis; Você sabe diferenciar Michael J. Fox de Matthew Broderick? Desconhecidos que viraram protagonistas; Danny Trejo, um mexicano do espaço; Os grandes olhos de Steve Buscemi, da comédia ao drama; Steve Carrel e o descobrimento aos 40; Will Ferrel se tornou uma estrela? Você sabe quem é John Turturro? Brian Cranston: talento se escapando por um triz Craig Castaldo, o mendigo mais famoso do mundo ...e muito, mas muito mais!!! Host: Scheid, o CEO Bancada: Farinhaki, Punk Willians, Rodini, Tio Fabs e General Maciel.

Tim, Ian, and Lydia join Brett Dasovic of Pop Culture Crisis and Dallas Sonnier, producer of Daily Wire movies Terror On The Prairie, Shut-In, and Run Hide Fight, to discuss the Ottawa police militarizing to fight back against the Freedom Convoy protesters, the first Daily Wire movie and how it changed the cultural warfare, Brian Cranston's sudden revelation about his white privilege, the 'colorist' complaints against a young queer actress in an upcoming movie, and the game streamer who was canceled for her hot take that short men don't deserve human rights. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Diamantopoulos was always an actor. Never held another job. He was working on the stage at an early age—touring companies, Broadway—then transitioned to television, film, and eventually voice overs. Never stopped. Some highlights: Russ Hanneman on “Silicon Valley,” Reinhold on “Community,” Moe in “The Three Stooges,” the official voice of Mickey Mouse, and right now you can see him playing bad guys in Netflix's “Red Notice” and “True Story.” We recorded this interview hours before he started a new job and he takes us through what's on his mind on the night before day one. He talks about how the voice is always the aspect he starts with when building a character, why going back to Broadway in a musical after many years was so challenging, the importance of keeping himself at a place of healthy neutrality, plus lessons learned from Brian Cranston, Kirk Russell, David Fincher, and much more!  Follow Back To One on Instagram

Bree is joined by YouTube political and pop culture essayist José (@JoseNotAJay on Twitter) to locate the peak of the underrated family sitcom, Malcolm in the Middle. Along the way, we ask the key questions like: was Lois a great mom or an abusive monster? What would the show have been like if Brian Cranston hadn't shaped Hal into a different character? How many high-concept episodes are too many? Is Malcolm actually the worst? And, most importantly, what happened to Eric Per Sullivan?

Are you ready for the showdown of the century? Godzilla vs. Kong? I hope so because we talk about it for like 20 minutes. We are on Zoom this week so if you hear any audio glitches, fear not we will be back to being double mic'd up next week! Grab you favorite snack and your favorite peeps and listen to us talk about stuff we like for an hour!Points of Interest: Godzilla Vs Kong Hype, Godzilla Lore, General Nerdism, Creed Worship Music, Rating Christian Band Names, Inside the Pastor's Office, Our Dream Podcast Guests, a thoughtful discourse on our heroes, Brian Cranston in Breaking Brad, and what soothes us the most.

「微信」或者「微博」搜索关注［早安英文］，查看更多有趣实用的中英双语节目。笔记：Recently our staff was hit with the flu. Ellen has tested positive for Covid-19.The 62-year-old made the announcement herself today on instagram, saying she's "feeling fine," and "following all proper CDC guidelines," and "anyone whohas been in close contact with me has been notified."How exactly Ellen contracted the suriv is a mystery, but her live audience returned to her show six weeks ago.These were her most recentguests. Please welcome Leslie Odom Jr, my friend Diane Keaton, Brian Cranston.获取节目完整音频、笔记和片尾的歌曲名，请关注威信公众号「早安英文」，回复「加油」即可。更多有意思的英语干货等着你！

「微信」或者「微博」搜索关注［早安英文］，查看更多有趣实用的中英双语节目。笔记：Recently our staff was hit with the flu. Ellen has tested positive for Covid-19.The 62-year-old made the announcement herself today on instagram, saying she's "feeling fine," and "following all proper CDC guidelines," and "anyone whohas been in close contact with me has been notified."How exactly Ellen contracted the suriv is a mystery, but her live audience returned to her show six weeks ago.These were her most recentguests. Please welcome Leslie Odom Jr, my friend Diane Keaton, Brian Cranston.获取节目完整音频、笔记和片尾的歌曲名，请关注威信公众号「早安英文」，回复「加油」即可。更多有意思的英语干货等着你！

Clarke Peters and Isiah Whitlock Jr. starred on the critically acclaimed HBO series The Wire, and both of their careers span more than four decades of acting and directing. In addition to co-starring in the Netflix Film, Da 5 Bloods, Clarke Peters can also be seen in HBO's fantasy TV series "His Dark Materials," the critically acclaimed film, "Harriet" about Harriet Tubman and new Apple series Foundation. Isiah Whitlock Jr., other notable film credits include BlacKkKlansman, Pete's Dragon, Cedar Rapids, and he will co-star opposite Brian Cranston in a new Showtime limited series called "Your Honor." Da 5 Bloods is streaming on Netflix. DA 5 Bloods is a movie about 5 guys who served together in Vietnam but is also a movie about Black history. It plays out like a reunion movie, but you guys are treasure hunters! DA 5 Bloods consistent of Stormin Norman (Chadwick Boseman) Paul (Delroy Lindo) Eddie (Norm Lewis) Otis (Clarke Peters) Melvin (Isiah Whitlock Jr.) also on this journey you have Paul's son David, played by Jonathan Majors. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Clarke Peters and Isiah Whitlock Jr.https://www.moneymakingconversations.comhttps://www.youtube.com/MoneyMakingConversationshttps://www.facebook.com/MoneyMakingConversations/https://twitter.com/moneymakingconvhttps://www.instagram.com/moneymakingconversations/Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSupport the show: https://www.steveharveyfm.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Councillor Jason Farr talks with Scott Radley about the support Hamilton City Council could offer to a Grey Cup bid. The big question is, how likely is City Council willing to help? Guest: Ward 2 COuncillor Jason Far - Paul Ford is an actor with a physical disability, and an advocate for disabled actors. He joins Scott to discuss the controversy surrounding Brian Cranston's performance as a man with quadriplegia, in the new film ‘The Upside.' Guest: Paul Ford, Actor and Advocate - The CFL has recently lost players to the NFL, and some are seeing this as a badge of honour. But is it ultimately good or bad for the league? Rick Zamperin breaks this down with Scott. And they also discuss dubious choices for dinner. Guest: Rick Zamperin, News and Senior Sports Director with 900 CHML Globale News Radio, host of the 5th Quarter Podcast