Podcast appearances and mentions of Glenn Martin

Scotty is back with another episode of Slasher Scotty and his guest is Glenn Martin, who is the director of In The Shadows. Glenn discusses with Scotty how financials would be the hardest part of filmmaking, how his television series have zombies on steroids, his upcoming streaming website and app, and much, much more. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/slasherscotty/support

Strength to Strength welcomed Glenn Martin for a discussion about the yoke of Jesus. What does it mean that Jesus' yoke is “easy” and his burden is “light?”In this Talk, Glenn discusses how our perception of God and the motivations for our obedience affect our joy – or lack thereof.Many Christians believe there is “pie in the sky by and by when I die,” essentially supposing that while life is depressing now, our joy will finally be realized in heaven. What does the Bible say about that?An interactive question-and-answer period follows.https://strengthtostrength.org/is-your-christian-life-hard/

In this episode of the Nightmare Success in and Out podcast, host Brent Cassity interviews Jacqueline Polverari, the founder of Evolution Reentry Services. Jacqueline shares her personal journey of making poor choices that led to her incarceration and how she used her experience to advocate for criminal justice reform. The conversation covers Jacqueline's upbringing, education, career choices, and the challenges she faced in the title business as a business owner. The episode also delves into the legal troubles Jacqueline encountered and the lack of support she received from her family as she navigated through her nightmare. Overall, the episode highlights Jacqueline's resilience and determination to overcome her nightmares and set herself free. This part of the conversation explores Jacqueline's experience of pleading guilty, facing consequences, and accepting responsibility for her actions. She delves into the impact on her family and the burden of guilt she carries. The conversation also highlights the challenges of navigating the prison system, the glamorization of prison, and the difficulties of reentry into society. Jacqueline emphasizes the need for support and advocacy to help individuals successfully reintegrate into society after incarceration. She discusses the evolution of white collar support groups and the impact of supportive individuals like Louis Reed and Glenn Martin. Jacqueline emphasizes the power of showing up for others and the role of grace in the reentry process. She also highlights the importance of transparency, vulnerability, and taking ownership of one's story. Jacqueline discusses the need for support groups for families of the incarcerated and the value of collaboration in the reentry space. Jacqueline was inducted into the Connecticut Hall of Change, and she shares the significance of recognizing and honoring positive change of individuals returning home from prison. Finally, Jacqueline discusses the importance of homeownership in reentry and the work of Evolution Reentry Services. Show sponsors White Collar Support Group prisonist.org Start Here, Autoplaza Direct "Your Personal Car Concierge." --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/brent-cassity/support

In this interview, Strength to Strength (Sam Baer and Bryant Martin) interview representatives of Church Index (Darvin Martin and David Miller).Church Index is a ministry with a vision for linking people in search of a church to a supportive community of believers and for facilitating connections with churches that are more isolated. There are many ministries, churches, and individuals who receive continuous requests from people who are looking for a church that is faithful to the teachings of Jesus. Our mission is to create and maintain a public database of Anabaptist and similar churches from around the world who strive to live out the teachings of the New Testament and who recognize other churches with similar faith and practice, as being part of the church of Jesus.The Church Index website is created with a map, some location information, and a way to contact the churches that people may wish to visit (when you get a chance, visit https://churchindex.org/ and make sure your church information is correct and offer us any suggestions for making the site better).Additionally, Church Index provides churches and organizations with a web code that they may wish to embed on their website.Church Index‘s mission, in their own words:Today's online church environment cannot adequately provide what Jesus desires for us to experience in fellowship and community with His family on earth. It is for that reason we desire to see people engaged with a local fellowship; we designed this website to help the church accomplish this purpose.Our mission is to create and maintain a public database of Anabaptist and similar churches from around the world who strive to live out the teachings of the New Testament. We endeavor to take the teachings of the New Testament seriously, intending to live and teach the doctrine and sound faith that was delivered to the apostles, as described in the New Testament. In general, we believe that churches today should believe and practice what was commonly believed and practiced by the New Testament church. To that end, Church Index humbly offers this database of churches.You may access Church Index within Strength to Strength on our Find a Church page, or at https://churchindex.org/.The initial cost for launching this website for the first year is around $15,000. After the first year, we expect the costs for keeping this database maintained, to decrease to approximately $8,000 per year.This service is made financially possible by freewill contributions to cover the expenses. Would you or someone you know be willing to help us cover these costs?Please consider making an online contribution at https://churchindex.org/contribute/, or by mailing a check payable to “Church Index” to:Church Index1017 Houserville RoadState College, PA 16801Church Index administrative team: Glenn Martin, Darvin Martin, Ernest Eby, and David Miller.

On this episode of Paranormal Odyssey we welcome Writer, Producer and Director, Glenn Martin to the show. Glenn joined us to talk about his latest film, The Searching. We also get into his many other films, and some he has in the works. This was a very fun episode. If you've had an encounter with the weird and would like to share it on an episode of PO, shoot me an email to wayne@paranormalworldproductions.com #Bigfoot, #Sasquatch, #Haunted, #Haunting, #Cryptid, #Podcast, #Unknown, #Scary, #Spooky, #Creepy, #Scared, #Ghost, #Demon, #Dogman, #Weird, #Yeti, #Wildman, #Woods, #Forest. Paranormal World Productions-Paranormal World Productionshttps://youtube.com/@Paranormalodysseyhttps://www.tiktok.com/@paranormalodyssey?_t=8YvNYM8zfmI&_r=1https://instagram.com/paranormalodyssey?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dcfFwaJifs

HORROR FILM DIRECTOR GLENN MARTIN Michael Pare, Robert Romanus, Beverly Randolph, Jennifer Banko, Georgia Simmons, Brian Ceponis and Julia Reilly. ------------------------------------------------------- Glenn Martin has achieved cult status as the director of such macabre classic as "Kampout", "Cemeteries: Curse of  The Hanging Judge", "When Night Comes", "The Searching" &  In The Shadows . He is my special guest and joining him tonight is the principal cast of his latest 2 films . Ladies & Gentlemen Mr. Glenn Martin ..... (Ask about the status of Scacred Grounds: Forbidden) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Pare  (Both Eddie & The Cruisers, Streets of Fire, The Philadelphia Experiment, May Day, Wrongful Death & The Virgin Suicides) 200 plus films Robert "Bob" Romanus  (Fast Times at Ridgemnt High  ... "Mike Damone") 80 plus films                                            (Personal & Group Acting Coach) Beverly Randolph  (The Return of the Living Dead,  Freaks of Nature) Jennifer Banko    ("Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood")                                ("Leatherface: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre III" Brian Ceponis      (In The Shadows, The Searching, Upcoming Films "Grind", "Cabrini" & "Wolf Hollow") Julia Reilly   (Tammy-TV's "Stranger Things" & TV Movie "The Secrets She Keeps") Georgia Simmons - (The Searching, Wig'd Out & The Secret Life of Amy Benson - Possum Trot)   actors on cell phones who are more interested in selling movies than making them. sean penn PARE' QUOTE I've been playing heroes, and heroes are not normal people. You can't find a leading man doing a nine-to-five job on Wall Street. And that hurt because they said, "You can't play a regular person, Tom Cody was also bigger than life. And in The Philadelphia Experiment, I'm a time traveler for god's sake. So for a long time, all I played was cops, heroes and soldiers.[2] —Paré on being typecast as a macho man.      

OUR SPECIAL GUESTS INCLUDE A WHO'S WHO of HORROR Michael Pare, Robert Romanus, Beverly Randolph, Jennifer Banko, Georgia Simmons, Brian Ceponis and Julia Reilly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Glenn Martin has achieved cult status as the director of such macabre classic  Americana as "Cemeteries: Curse of  The Hanging Judge", "When Night Comes", "The Searching" &  In The Shadows . He is my special guest and joining him tonight is the entire cast of his latest 2 films . Ladies & Gentlemen Mr. Glenn Martin ..... (Ask about the status of Scacred Grounds: Forbidden) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Pare  (Both Eddie & The Cruisers, Streets of Fire, The Philadelphia Experiment, May Day, Wrongful Death & The Virgin Suicides) 200 plus films Robert "Bob" Romanus  (Fast Times at Ridgemnt High  ... "Mike Damone") 80 plus films                                            (Personal & Group Acting Coach) Beverly Randolph  (The Return of the Living Dead,  Freaks of Nature) Jennifer Banko    ("Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood")                                ("Leatherface: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre III" Brian Ceponis      (In The Shadows, The Searching, Upcoming Films "Grind", "Cabrini" & "Wolf Hollow") Julia Reilly   (Tammy-TV's "Stranger Things" & TV Movie "The Secrets She Keeps") Georgia Simmons - (The Searching, Wig'd Out & The Secret Life of Amy Benson - Possum Trot)   actors on cell phones who are more interested in selling movies than making them. sean penn MICHAEL PARE' QUOTE "I've been playing heroes, and heroes are not normal people. You can't find a leading man doing a nine-to-five job on Wall Street. And that hurt because they said, "You can't play a regular person, Tom Cody was also bigger than life. And in The Philadelphia Experiment, I'm a time traveler for god's sake. So for a long time, all I played was cops, heroes and soldiers." —Paré on being typecast as a macho man.

In this insightful episode our CEO Lewis Maleh joined by Glenn Martin. They discuss the state of the job market, our highlights of the year, and the biggest news stories. Lewis and Glenn also share our thoughts on the most talked about topics in recruiting including..

“Righteous Lot?” is a historical retelling of the story of Lot, Abraham's nephew, as recorded in the book of Genesis. The typical depiction of Lot portrays him as an example of selfishness, love of the world, poor parenting, and depravity—everything we should not be. Yet Peter's commentary on Lot was stellar: he was a righteous man in Sodom, saved by his virtuous conduct.What excuse can be granted for selfishly choosing the better land from his uncle? Or for acclimating to the vile environment of the doomed cities while serving at the city gates as their judge? How could any good father offer his daughters to a savage mob in exchange for his own security? No excuse can suffice for this.In this book, Glenn Martin reexamines the biblical and historical narratives, and makes the bold conclusion that the modern telling bears little resemblance to the biblical character. According to the author, in Peter's understanding of the narrative, Lot was guilty of none of the aforementioned things, and indeed, Lot was a righteous man and his conduct is defensible when the story is properly understood.https://strengthtostrength.org/product/righteous-lot-glenn-martin/https://strengthtostrength.org/s2s-books-02/

On this episode, we are honored to welcome writer, director and producer Glenn Martin to talk about his new movie "In the Shadows" AND he's bringing with him the iconic Michael Paré and Beverly Randolph! I the Shadows: After being sentenced to a mental institution at 10 years old, Harlan Hatcher escapes 35 years later with revenge on his mind. Michael Kevin Paré was born on October 9, 1958 in Brooklyn, New York City, to Joan (Moroney) and Francis Paré, who owned print shops. His father died of leukemia when Paré was five, leaving his mother to raise their large family of children. Paré was working as a chef in New York City when an agent, Yvette Bikoff, convinced him to try acting. Paré's first starring role was as high school student Tony Villcana on the television series The Greatest American Hero (1981). His well-known film roles were as 1960s rock icon Eddie Wilson in Eddie and the Cruisers (1983) and its sequel Eddie and the Cruisers II: Eddie Lives! (1989), as well as Streets of Fire (1984) and The Philadelphia Experiment (1984). Other films include Moon 44 (1990), Village of the Damned (1995), Bad Moon (1996), Hope Floats (1998) and The Virgin Suicides (1999). On television, Paré starred with Michael Beck on the CBS police drama Houston Knights (1987), as well as the short-lived sci-fi series Starhunter (2000). Beverly Randolph was born on August 10, 1964. She is an actress and producer, known for The Return of the Living Dead (1985), Death House (2017) and Sacred Grounds: Forbidden (2022). She has been married to Clayton Hartley since 1988. They have one child. This episode is sponsored by Deadly Grounds Coffee, head over to https://deadlygroundscoffee.com/ and grab a bag if you want to support the show head over to http://tee.pub/lic/xagxfUg22qI and grab a shirt! We are part of The Dorkening Podcast Network https://www.thedorkeningpodcastnetwork.com/ Find out more at https://wicked-horror-show.pinecast.co Send us your feedback online: https://pinecast.com/feedback/wicked-horror-show/d4d168fa-11c4-4d41-a8af-ce2cc0b4b8dd This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

John and Anthony look ahead to the big AFC North showdown on Thursday night. What's the latest on the injury front? How can the Bengals win this game? We bring in Glenn Martin of 410 Sports Talk to get the skinny with the Ravens. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Could robbing a jewelry store set you on the path to being one of the biggest names in criminal justice reform? You may have seen Glenn as a media guest on NPR, MSNBC, Fox News, or CSPAN. Glenn Martin has had two decades creating impactful change in the arena of criminal justice reform. Growing up as the son of a Police Chief, Glenn took a different path with the wrong crowd that eventually had him serving a 6 year prison sentence. He got out and hit the ground running. He began his career with the New York Legal Action Center. Glenn went on to found and direct a handful of national organizations in the non-profit sector...raising over $43 million in just four years. He coined the phrase, "People closest to the problem are the closest to the solution but farthest from the power and resources." Glenn founded JustLeadershipUSA to tackle that problem. He began educating and training leaders of their communities how to have a strong voice and create policy change. His leadership has been recognized with multiple honors, including the 2016 Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights Award. In 2015, Glenn was invited to the White House Oval Office to have a meeting with the President about criminal justice reform. That visit has an interesting story. Glenn now is the founder of GEM trainers that teaches non-profits how to be more effective with their goals and messaging. Additionally, he owns and operates GEM Real Estate that owns over 90 properties nationwide. This is an inspiring story of how to take action even if you only know 60% of what you need to because you will figure out the other 40% once you are running toward your goal. Glenn Martin proves second chances are real. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/brent-cassity/support

As the witching hour draws near (and we don't mean the Autumn Statement), AccountingWEB is joined by Glenn Martin, founder of Avery Martin to discuss some of his favourite nightmare-inducing experiences in practice. From dealing with ghoulish governmental bodies, to cursed clients, be prepared: you're in for a scare! Also on this week's spooky pod, AWEB editor Richard Hattersley reveals all from his big trip this year's Suite World in sunny Las Vegas and tech editor Tom Herbert gives us the lowdown on all things tech. Podcast speakers: Richard Hattersley Tom Herbert Glenn Martin Producer/editor: Will Cole

Strength to Strength welcomed Glenn Martin to explore a little-known Messianic prophesy.What does the final plague of Egypt have in common with the Incarnation? What does the Wisdom of Solomon offer to bring together these two accounts? And what classic Christmas hymn do we sing that foretells the birth of the Messiah by invoking the death angel's arrival at the Passover?An interactive question-and-answer period follows.

The interest in anti-gravity by two private investors, Roger Babson and Agnew Banhson, changed the course of general relativity.  Sponsor: Brilliant: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off - Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early ad-free audio podcasts) - Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE - PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE - Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt - Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs - iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802 - Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e - Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything - TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch THANK YOU: Thank you to David Kaiser, Eric Weinstein, Jeremy Rys, David Chester, and Jesse Michels for helping bring this to my attention. LINKS MENTIONED: - The Price of Gravity (Kaiser, Rickles): https://web.mit.edu/dikaiser/www/HSNS4803_03_Kaiser.pdf - Chapel Hill Conference's Report (The Role of Gravitation in Physics): https://edition-open-sources.org/media/sources/5/Sources5.pdf - Behind the scenes of the 1957 Chapel Hill Conference: https://royalsoc.org.au/images/pdf/journal/154-2-Rickles.pdf - Gell-Mann's Shelter Island Notes: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/files/Gell-Mann_ShelterIslandII_1983.pdf - Louis Witten's Recollections (video): https://youtu.be/iH8btReqv4c?t=6448 - Louis Witten speaks to Rickles: https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral-histories/36985 - Physical Interpretation of Antigravity by Bars: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.05128.pdf - Garry Nolan's podcast on TOE: https://youtu.be/g3bk1UXjKLI TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 - Roger Babson & Agnew Banhson 00:07:09 - Gravity Research Foundation's "Essay Contest" 00:12:22 - Anti-gravity and Amendments to General Relativity 00:16:43 - Operation Moonwatch and UFOs 00:18:36 - Ed Witten's father (Louis) and Burkhard Heim 00:25:43 - Summary 00:26:32 - Chapel Hill Conference 00:27:58 - Revival of General Relativity (Hawking & Penrose) 00:30:44 - String Theory and the Legacy of Babson & Banhson 00:33:01 - Dean Rickles, David Kaiser, and Other Documentaries CLARIFICATIONS: - Technically it was George S. Trimble who started the RIAS. Witten's supervisor was someone named Welcome Bender. I had this in the original script but it was becoming extortionately bloated with various names, and since Trimble was the CEO of Glenn Martin, I decided to phrase it the way I did in the script. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steve Baldikoski is an Emmy nominated Showrunner known for Fuller House. He's also worked on Last Man Standing, Glenn Martin D.D.S., Wilfred, and Kristie. Join Michael Jamin and Steve Baldikoski for a conversation about how Steve broke in and what it takes to make it in HollywoodShow NotesSteve Baldikoski on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0049747/Steve Baldikoski on Twitter - https://twitter.com/finchbot2000Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAuto-Generated TranscriptSteve Baldikoski:I mean, you're, you are sort of clued in to, to what your boss likes. Mm-Hmm. , you also have your own tastes. You, you kind of know what the project is supposed to be. I, I, yeah, I don't know. There, there's no formal executive school on how to give notes. That's why it's kind, it's kind of a weird job because there's no training for it. I don't really necessarily know what makes you good or not good.Michael Jamin:You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome to another episode of Screenwriters. Need to hear this. I got another great guest today. This is my old buddy, Steve Bobowski. Steve has written on some of the, some of your favorite shows, as long as your show's favorite shows are ,Steve Baldikoski:As long as they're, as long as you have Terrible Taste and only watch shows that are gone after 13 episodes, andMichael Jamin:Then, then these are your favorite shows. But I'm gonna start, I'm gonna, in no particular order of, of, I think I'm going in order Teenager Working. Remember that show Dag with David Allen Greer Baby Bob. Oh, we're gonna talk about Baby Bob. Okay. Yeah. A U s A. Andy Richter controls the universe. People like that show a lot. I, I'm with her or I'm with her. I'm with her. I'm with her.Steve Baldikoski:I'm withMichael Jamin:Her. I'm with her . Eight. Eight Simple Rules. The New Adventures of Old Christine. That was a good show. The Jake Effect. Big Shots. True. Jackson, I forgot you worked that out. Wilfred. Which you could thank me for Glenn Martin d s, which you could thank me for Kirsty, which I can thank you for. Last Man Standing, whatever, .Steve Baldikoski:Yeah. They don't have anyone to thank for that.Michael Jamin:Thank for that.Steve Baldikoski:Save Me.Michael Jamin:Jennifer Falls, Ned and Stacy. And then of course, you were the executive producer and showrunner of Fuller House, the Full House remake. Steve, welcome to the big show,Steve Baldikoski:. Thank, thank you for having me. It's very exciting to be here.Michael Jamin:Wasn't it exciting, man? Oh man. Oh, and I have to say, so yeah, so we started out my partner and I hired Steve and his partner Brian, on, on Glenn Martin dds. And we were always very grateful. These guys turned in great drafts and we were always extremely grateful. Yeah, thank you. And then we would just shovel more work as, as for gratitude, we would just shovel more scripts in your face. Write this one now,Steve Baldikoski:, that was one of the highlights of my career. That was some of the best times I've ever had.Michael Jamin:We had some, you know, it's funny, I asked Andy Gordon in in a, in a previous episode, I said, and I'll ask you the same question. If you had, if you could go back in time and either remake any of the shows you did worked on, or like rebooted or just work on it again, what, what would they be? Any,Steve Baldikoski:I thought you were gonna tell me. Andy's answer . AndyMichael Jamin:Said if you want, Andy said, just shoot me. And true. JacksonSteve Baldikoski:Uhhuh . I, I, Glen Martin was a highlight, and and I think it was an underappreciated show,Michael Jamin:Certainly was. AndSteve Baldikoski:If, if it weren't in Claymation, maybe someone would've watched it.Michael Jamin:You know, we went on the internet, Seabert and I, my partner and I, we went on the internet and we found some guy talking about Glen Martin. And it was as if he was in the writer's room. It was as if he was, because he, he was right on the money . Like he knew what was good about it, what was bad about it. He had theories as to why ,Steve Baldikoski:I think you, you talking about Alex Berger, the creator,Michael Jamin:, it wasn't Alex. It was something like, it was something like Whacko on the internet, but boy, he was dead on. He was like, he knew exactly what he was talking about.Steve Baldikoski:. Well, one, one weird thing that that happened to me, this is slightly related. When, when Brian, my old writing partner and I took over for house in the last couple of seasons, it was right before the final season, and it was after Lori Locklin had her collegeIssues, legal issues with varsity Blues. On April Fool's Day, there was this article in some Likee News or something where someone did a whole, it was a fake interview with me, but it seemed like it was real. And the reasonings that they were talking about getting rid of Lori's character and what would happen after, you know, she was divorced from Uncle Jesse on Fuller House. W it was so well thought out that it, I thought it had to be written by also someone in the room, Uhhuh, because they actually knew like, specific arguments that specific writers had in getting rid of this person. And then it turns out, only if you clicked the very bottom did it say April Fools. And it was all phony interview with me,Michael Jamin:But still they got it. Right. But itSteve Baldikoski:Was, it, it was so eerie that it was, it was probably probably had better reasons to include her or not include her than we did. So there are a lot of fans out there who understand the shows just as well as the writers Do.Michael Jamin:I, I think so. I, I think even on, people talk about King of the Hill and they remember episodes. I'm like, I don't remember that one. And then they look it up and go, I, I worked on it. I don't tell me what happened. It's like, I don't remember it. You know, it's from, you know, very important to some of these people. And you know, they, they, they watch it all the time. And I haven't watched it in 20 years. ButSteve Baldikoski:But did you, there was a moment where when on Wilfrid where David Zuckerman, the creator didn't even know that he had a logic fallacy in the first episode. Do you know the story? No. I think he was at Comic-Con and he, he was, he, it it was about the pilot of Wilfred where Wilfred is trying to get through the fence and a regular dog would crawl through the fence, but instead Wilfred has an ax.Michael Jamin:Right. AndSteve Baldikoski:And then they said, well, shouldn't I take the ax from Wilf Fred because it's dangerous? And then David said, wisely said, no, you can't grab the ax cuz that means the ax is real. And the second he said that someone in the audience held their hand up and said, well, what about the Bong? Yeah,Michael Jamin:What about the Bong? Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:And David had never considered that.Michael Jamin:Well,Steve Baldikoski:But Jar, that was fascinating that, that he, they had never thought of it on set, but out there. Got him instantlyMichael Jamin:Etro gave a headache to write and remember, like, what, who, and then, and then your part of Brian's likeSteve Baldikoski:That, that anecdote gave me a headache to mention.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it was, I remember he just like, don't you think people just wanna see the dog danceSteve Baldikoski:?Michael Jamin:See the dog dance? That was his pitch. . Oh man. Oh my God, what a show. But did you ever,Steve Baldikoski:This whole section is even inside Wilf Fred.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it is inside Wilfred.Steve Baldikoski:I don't think anyone would appreciate that. But did youMichael Jamin:Ever, even when you were running Fuller house, did you, did you ever turn to the, what do the fans want? Did you turn to the, because there's a lot of pressureSteve Baldikoski:On that actually, I have to say. That was a huge part of Fuller House and it was one of the things I think that the audience loved. And it was a unique situation for me because I had, still, to this day, I've seen two and a half episodes of the original full House.Michael Jamin:Uhhuh .Steve Baldikoski:So I didn't know anything about Full House, but other people did. And so if we would want to throw in, we call them Easter eggs, right? Throw in little Easter eggs and bring back, you know, some character that was in an, in a single episode 30 years ago, we would bring those actors back and the audience would go bananas. Yeah.Michael Jamin:But how, how can, you didn't watch any old episodes or, you know, there's so much,Steve Baldikoski:Why, why didn't I, orMichael Jamin:Yeah, why didn't you?Steve Baldikoski:Well part of it is I, I didn't want to actually be beholden to any of the other of the old stories.Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:Because I mean, even, you know, like Fuller House is a little bit of an old fashioned show, but we didn't wanna make it just like completely stuck in the past and, and a show that is only about, that's referencing the original show. And that was more helpful to just have a perspective of like, what's it like raising, you know, three kids in, you know, modern day California.Michael Jamin:But did you feel a, a strong, I guess, obligation to make sure the fans were happy? Cuz I'm show the writers are writing for themselves.Steve Baldikoski:Oh, oh, for sure. We were doing that constantly and you know, we, we knew it. There were certain things that were like, you know, throwing red meat to the audience.Michael Jamin:Oh.Steve Baldikoski:You know, kind of like, like, like if you're doing the show Fuller House, no. You know, no matter what the story you're doing is, or whatever, if you have to, you bring in a dog wearing sunglasses and the audience goes bananas. And then how do you talk? And a, a baby runs in wearing the same sunglasses.Michael Jamin:Mm-Hmm.Steve Baldikoski: and then just the, the audience like tears of joy in the audienceMichael Jamin:Because that's, that, that was an old staple in the original show, stuff like that.Steve Baldikoski:Yeah. I mean, that's just the kind of thing that they would stoop to, you know, . And so, no, but it was, but it was this, it was this, the Four House is a show that like, you know, it really, it really affected me as a writer cuz it was really that time when every week there were 200 fans in the audience. Super fans who knew every single episode of Full House and Fuller House. And so you would get this amazing instant recognition from the audience that you're writing for them.Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:Especially when you would have those little Easter eggs and you don't get that on a lot of shows.Michael Jamin:Right. YouSteve Baldikoski:Know, like I, you know, may maybe on your Just Shoot Me you would have just shoot me fans, but every seat every week was a super fan.Michael Jamin:No. The weird thing about Just Shoot Me, you know, cause we was, we were there the first four years and the, the first season, probably the first two seasons that the audience, they weren't fans, they were hostages. There was people who came from Free Pizza, , you can tell they wouldn't wanna be there. . And they know the showSteve Baldikoski:Prisoners,Michael Jamin:Prison Prisoners,Steve Baldikoski:You're sailors in for Fleet Week.Michael Jamin:It's basically that. I mean, people listening, it's like you show up on Hollywood Boulevard and they hand out tickets, Hey, who wants to see a taping of the show? And then anyone would show up and they would stay warm, cause anybody to get outta the rain. ButSteve Baldikoski:These, no, these were people who came from not just around the country, but from literally around the world to see the show. Yeah. And they would th these people would center their vacation on coming to the show. And, and so, you know, I I mean I, it was also amazing to be able to, like, after the show, you know, if you knew who the people were you would bring them down and, and they would just get a kick out of walking around the set. Mm-Hmm. . And that was another kind of highlight every week was, you know, having these people, you know, have this awesome experience that they've grown up with these characters in this set. And then they're running around on the set, you know, now that they're grown up and they've got kids who, who like the shows.Michael Jamin:Now this set was a repeat that wasn't,Steve Baldikoski:That was kind of amazing cuz you would, it it wasn't just, it wasn't just fans, it was two generations of fans. Right. You know, it was like people who are sort of our age and then they're kids. Right. And, and so, you know, when network people talk about family co-viewing, it really was that it was, you know, parents who still love the show,Michael Jamin:But it wasn't the set was a remake. Right. It wasn't the actually,Steve Baldikoski:It, it was a remake. But I'll I'll tell you, and this is also part of the weird experience coming onto the show, cuz neither, you know, I had no appreciation really for a full house at the time. So before the first show, and this was the entire first season before it aired on Netflix there was a curtain covering the set. And before they would announce the actors, they would, they would lift the curtain like it, like it was like at the theater. Right. And the first time for the shooting the pilot, when they revealed that to the audience, people burst into tears.Michael Jamin:Wow.Steve Baldikoski:Just seeing the set and the couch looking just like it did in the eighties. And the way they really, really mimicked the original set, you know, to the Inch cuz they had the original plans. It was amazing to see people moved by a set.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I bet. ISteve Baldikoski:Bet. And yeah. And so, so that was pretty unusual. And then any line would get, even a mediocre line would get an aureus laugh from the audience cuz they were all, they've been waiting for 25 years to see this moment.Michael Jamin:Now, I imagine you had some of the writers in the show who grew up with watching the original Fall House, who knew more about the show than, than you did? Who?Steve Baldikoski:Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. For sure. And that's why also I felt I didn't need to see the show that much. I'm not recommending people shouldn't do homework .Michael Jamin:Now, one of the things that shocked me when we, when we were working with you, this is long, many years ago, and maybe it was only a season one or something. You shocked me when you said that you, at one point you were, you started as a network executive. I was like, you what? WhatSteve Baldikoski:Well, yeah, Stu, a studio, executiveMichael Jamin:Studio. SoSteve Baldikoski:Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was I was like a director of comedy development at Universal.Michael Jamin:And so tell tell us what, what that means. WhatSteve Baldikoski:Do, should I go back further? Could goMichael Jamin:Back to where you wanna startSteve Baldikoski:To that point. I mean, I never, I never set out to be a writer. I don't even know if you know any of my origin story about this stuff. Oh. I never really set out to be a writer. I always loved TV, but I also love music in, in movies. But didn't even know I was gonna get into the entertainment business until I was trying to blow a year or two before I would get a little bit of work experience and then back to go to law school. You were gonna law school get an mba and I was never gonna be a part of the entertainment industry, but I just lucked into what turned out to be a great job in the mail room at United Talent Agency, uta. And it was like this moment that U t A was on the rise and I, yeah, I was in the mail room where I'm literally working 80 hours a week delivering mail and reading scripts for free and writing coverage, doing that for five months. Then I got on a desk, I worked for Nancy Jones and Jay Surs.Michael Jamin:Oh boy.Steve Baldikoski:I was their first assistants at United Talent, I believe. And then and then I knew it wasn't for me cuz it was really cutthroat. Yes. I, I was learning what I didn't want to do. And working a traditional office that led to I got a job in development. I worked at Aaron Spelling Productions, and then that job got me wait, howMichael Jamin:Did you get a job in development? Cause it's, it is hard to make the transition from being an assistant at a desk to having a non-a job anywhere.Steve Baldikoski:Oh, oh. I, I was still an assistant for Oh, okay. Years. I was an assistant for spelling for one year. Mm-Hmm. , then I was an assistant. I worked for Jamie Tarsus at b c. Right. And that's, and that was kind of the, the, the pivotal moment in my career. Cuz kind of anyone who was Jamie Tarsus assistant moved on to become the next executive. Right. And so that kind of became my path. I was, I, I never set out to do this, but I just kept at getting a job that was just better than the last one. Mm-Hmm. . So I never had the reason to go back to law school. Right. And it was just like they kept on dragging me back in with a slightly better job. So this one year I spent as Jamie's assistant at N B C Frazier had been bought, but not shot.And then Jamie bought friends that year. I can't remember the names of the other shows, but but like, you know, being on set at the pilot of Friends was really that pivotal moment for me where I thought, oh, th this is, you know, really what I wanna do. Like, and I was on the path to be an executive, but I really would look over and the writers seemed to be having a lot more fun. And that's where I, I didn't really even know it, but that was, that was my path to be to being a writer was just kind of hanging out at N B C and, and seeing how things, you know, being a part of. But evenMichael Jamin:When you were an executive development exec, were you thinking, I want to be a writer? Or were you thinking No, no,Steve Baldikoski:Not really. I, I knew like, the executive path was like, was fine and I did that. And on the executive path, when you're no longer an assistant, you get bumped up and you get the office and it was very kind of, there were a lot of fancy trappings. I would wear a suit and I'd drive around all the networks trying to sell co half hour comedies to the networks. And it was it was a good job. But there was just something I still kept on looking at, you know, the writers who were on the floor and thought they were having more fun.Michael Jamin:But Do you, and you were giving notes to writers Yes. As executive. Do you at any point feel like, I don't really, how might, who might I be giving notes to a writer when theySteve Baldikoski:Oh, I, I, I felt that all the time. And because I felt that, cuz I kind of had so much respect for what the writers did. Yeah. That it was, it was hard for me to give as many notes. Cuz I thought the writer probably already had thought these things throughMichael Jamin:Uhhuh .Steve Baldikoski:But where were youMichael Jamin:Getting your notes from then?Steve Baldikoski:What's that?Michael Jamin:Where were you getting your notes from? Where were you getting your opinions from?Steve Baldikoski:Well, I, I have opinions just like, IMichael Jamin:Wouldn't have, I wouldn't have when I was starting it out, I go, I don't know. That's fine to me.Steve Baldikoski:I mean, you're, you're sort of clued in to, to what your boss likes. Mm-Hmm. , you also have your own tastes. You, you kind of know what the project is supposed to be. I, yeah, I don't know. There, there's no formal executive school on how to give notes. That's why it's kind, it's kind of a weird job because there's no training for it. I don't really necessarily know what makes you good or not good.Michael Jamin:And some, a lot of it is just opinion. But I I sometimes you'll get the same notes and which are fair, which is a, you know, start the story journal, whatever. That's a great note that you're always, this is totally valid note. But sometimes I, you know, I've been in meetings and you're like, you get a note, you're like, but that's just your opinion. This doesn't make it better or worse.Steve Baldikoski:Yes. And, and I mean, obviously, you know, that's something you, you will struggle with till the end of time. Yeah. But, but I also always go back to, you know, I, I think there's a, there's a cartoon about this at, at some point, but, but like, if Shakespeare handed an Hamlet, his agent would give him notes. Yeah. And he would say, Hamlet is inactive. Yeah. And then you would make him Mae swashbuckling hero.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Right. Yes.Steve Baldikoski:And that would ruin Hamlet. So, so like, you know, and, and the problem is that like, the, that agent's note would be a well, well-guided note.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Hamlet, that isSteve Baldikoski:A mm-hmm. is a valid thing for him to say, but it also ruins the inherent art of the piece. Yeah.Michael Jamin:You know? Yeah. Had a kick. ButSteve Baldikoski:Then not that writing Glen Martin was the equivalent of ShakespeareMichael Jamin:In many ways. But it wasSteve Baldikoski:Pretty close.Michael Jamin:It was a little higherSteve Baldikoski:. But ,Michael Jamin:We had some fun on that show. But and then when, when you wanted to make the transition, I don't know how, how, how do you do, how did you do that?Steve Baldikoski:So, so, and once, like, and this is just my case, it was shockingly not that hard. My who became my writing partner was one of my best friends in college. And Brian had always wanted to be a sitcom writer. And just kind of had, kind of flamed out a couple of times. And then he was living in San Francisco and having a really excellent career as a, as an advertising copywriter. And I called him up and I told him I wanted to write sitcom with him. And he said no. And then he say he changed his mind.Michael Jamin:Why did he say no?Steve Baldikoski:Cuz I said, fine, I'm, if you don't write it with me, I'm gonna write it with Sue Ale .Michael Jamin:Oh,Steve Baldikoski:Funny. That's a true story. She wasn't,Michael Jamin:Sue wasn't an Sue Nagle who later went on to run H B O and then and Ana and you know, she, she's big, but she, at the time she was, she was, sheSteve Baldikoski:Was not yet an agent or she was a very young one. And we, butMichael Jamin:She didn't wanna write,Steve Baldikoski:Did she? So then we got together and to go to a coffee place to brainstorm. And we got into a, we didn't even make it to the coffee place before we got into a huge argumentMichael Jamin:Over what?Steve Baldikoski:Oh, I don't, I don't rememberMichael Jamin:. This partnership's not going well,Steve Baldikoski:. No, he was, he was not. But, but if you can't make it to the place where you're supposed to think , then it's probably a doom partnership. So anyway, Brian said yes. Mm-Hmm. . And then so over the phone we wrote a spec news radio back when people still did that. Yep. And News Radio had just been on the air. So we wanted to write a show that we loved and also that there weren't a ton of samples of other specs like that. Right. So we, this news radio early on and I gave it to Sue Nagle, she liked it. She gave it to Michael Whitehorn at Ned and Stacy. And we had one meeting Brian flew in from San Francisco. I showed up in my suit from being in an executive. I had to sneak out from Universal and not tell him where I was going. DidMichael Jamin:Michael White hard know you were an executive at the time? Yes, he did. HeSteve Baldikoski:Didn't think, but, but, but that was actually kind of a good thing because Brian was an ad executive. Mm-Hmm. and Ned of Ned and Stacy Right. Was an ad executive. And then also cuz I had, you know, funny corporate stories I think Michael liked that as well. And the fact he gets two people for a staff writer's salary.Michael Jamin:Were you afraid to leave your cushy job?Steve Baldikoski:Less so than Brian. I, if, if I flamed out, I could always go back to being an executive and, you know, that would be fine. Right. And, and in hindsight, that probably would've been the best thing that happened, everyone.Michael Jamin:But Yeah. I mean, itSteve Baldikoski:Wouldn't be here talking to you. I, I, I'd be living in Bermuda by now, .Michael Jamin:Oh, well, you know, learn.Steve Baldikoski:Yes. So, but unfortunately I made it through that year and then made it through the next like 25 years. And so, so that was my, that was my path. And, and it kind of happened really fast that I, so then Michael hired us after that meeting, and then I had to go tell my boss at Universal that not only was I looking for a job, but I had one and it was as a writer.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:And then, and so their business affairs made this big stink that they owned my half of my spec script.Michael Jamin:And what, what are they planning on doing with it?Steve Baldikoski:I, well, that, well, I, I asked them that and I think they were all gonna take my spot in the writer's room.Michael Jamin:Yeah. What you're, they have they own ha you're half of a worthless SPAC script that just got you a job. I don't know,Steve Baldikoski:Value it. It was a weird thing. But they,Michael Jamin:But businessSteve Baldikoski:Affairs won't hesitate toMichael Jamin:Sink a deal whenever possible. . Yes. We remove the joy out of a writer . We have a three hour phone call toSteve Baldikoski:Figure this out. And they, yes, they effectively did steal my joy of that moment,Michael Jamin:. Oh my God. And then, yeah. Then the rest was just one show after another, basically. AndSteve Baldikoski:Then, yeah. And yeah, it started out we got in, at the time there used to be the WB in, in U p n, the Paramount Network. I think like in that, in that time period, this is like 97, 98, there was like the peak of the sitcom. I think there were over 60 half hour sitcoms on the air. And then Brian and I rode that rollercoaster.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.So tell me about developing your last project.Steve Baldikoski:Okay, so the, the last project that I just developed I sold it to a ABC with 20th. Mm-Hmm. came to me because it was so personal to what I'm going through as a dad. Mm-Hmm. , my youngest kid is non-binary.Michael Jamin:Okay.Steve Baldikoski:And she she was born a girl, Vivian. And then around time, she was about the second grade, she came to us and said that she, she felt that she was a boy. Right. And so that led us down on this journey. You know, finding out, you know, like having a trans kid and non-binary kid and never knowing anything about it. Right. and that kind of led me to want to write about it after I broke up with my writing partner right at the start of Covid. And I was gonna have to write my first thing. So I was gonna write at first I was actually gonna develop step by step BA based on the same concept. I was unable to sell that to H B O Max mm-hmm. . so instead I redeveloped the idea of me being this like hapless dad sort of middle class working class guy in rural Wisconsin, which is where my mom's family is from.And then having this tomboy kid that he just loves more than anything. Hi. Her, his Maisie all of a sudden informs him that no her name is, she's now Hunter. And you're thinking this as a single camera comedy or what? This was a single camera comedy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was structured like a multicam, but, but really that was from, anyway, that was my speck. And what that led me to, to, to, to do is it got me the attention of other people who were in the non-binary trans world. So then ultimately I partnered just through meeting lots of people this woman named Billy Lee, who some people know because Billy Lee was on early seasons of Vander Pump Rules. Okay. and so it was kind of a, like a well-known person in, in the trans community.And then, so Billy Lee and her friend Priscilla had this idea about her own life, which is kind of almost too hard to believe is true. Billy Lee grew up in rural Indiana as a boy. Left home in 18, found out that he wasn't gay, he was actually a, she Right. And went through the surgeries and then, you know, a a lot of turmoil, but then returns back home and fell in love with her best male friend from junior high. And now they're together as an on and off couple. And so it was, how, how do I take that and turn that into a half hour comedy? I know it's a long wind up, but it's a great story that is almost hard to believe. Yeah. AndMichael Jamin:Was her best friend growing up.Steve Baldikoski:Yes. And so we pitched it really as a Netflix H b o Showtime show that would, would show that magic relationship and also have sex and, you know, things that I think would be hard, you know, relatively hard for a, you know, a regular network audience.Michael Jamin:And it's sold,Steve Baldikoski:But it sold to a b ABC because they wanted, there's this great, her relationship with her father is also really what it's about. Right. And it's, it, it is a fa is also a family show about how it took a trans woman to fix this broken Midwestern family.Michael Jamin:Right. AndSteve Baldikoski:Right in ABC's wheelhouse, youMichael Jamin:Know, where where is that now? At likeSteve Baldikoski:A, like a Connor's but with a strong trans element.Michael Jamin:And where is that right now?Steve Baldikoski:It's dead. Oh,Michael Jamin:Steve Baldikoski:Michael Jamin:With every other pilot.Steve Baldikoski:Yeah. yeah. I, I, you know, I can't, I I can't entirely blame them. Like, it, it would be very amazing to see a, b, c put on a show about a trans woman and not have it be one of the peripheral characters.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:I, I, I think that's just a hard sell. Maybe if I was, you know, a more powerful writer, could, could you, you know, jam that down their throat? But I, I don't think, I think the subject matter was exactly their wheelhouse, but also maybe too, too on the bleeding edge for them.Michael Jamin:It, it feels a little like, you know, some somebody somewhere at that H B O show. I love that show. No. Oh yeah. It's a little sim it's it, and there's not trans, but it's, it's similar that, I don't know, that just remind me of It's great. It's a great show. Our friend Rob Cohen directs a bunch of those. Oh yeah.Steve Baldikoski:Oh, I'll have to check that out.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Great show. But, so then, okay, so then what, what else? Like, you, I mean, it's been a while since, you know, since Fuller House, but what was that like? I always ask this, what's it like working with the cuz a lot has changed since you and I broke in. Yes. What is it working on with like the, the new generation of writers?Steve Baldikoski:Well luckily at Four House I was still the new generation of writers . What wasn't thatMichael Jamin:Mean, wasn't that long ago.Steve Baldikoski:I, I still felt young on the show Uhhuh. Cause Cause we had people No, we, we had people who were older and Oh right. And you know, were around the early, theMichael Jamin:Original show.Steve Baldikoski:And so, so it was kind of great to feel like I was on the young side for once. Yeah. but I, I understand what you're, I understand what you're, what you're getting to are like in terms of how the room has changed from started to now, evenMichael Jamin:In terms of preparation because, you know, you can answer any way you want. But it, like, basically there was more when we were coming up, you were on a show for longer. There were more senior writers and you were constantly learning and you were never, I never, you were never like thrown into the hot wa hot water yet. But now I feel like these kids come in and there's no really training ground. There's no, there's even, you know, I think there's an article a couple days ago, there's no mentorship anymore becauseSteve Baldikoski:No, no, no, no, no. There, there isn't. And you know, that's too sad. I think that, I think content in general is as good as it's ever been. Mm-Hmm. . And yet that training system doesn't seem to exist. And I wish it did. When, when we first got in around the Ned and Stacy era, like there still was that you would still feel that like a showrunner would take someone mm-hmm. Under his wing, like Michael Whitehorn did with David Lit. Yep. And Shepherd that person cuz they would have multiple years of Ned and Stacy. And then luckily that turned into King of Queens. Mm-Hmm. and, and you know, soMichael Jamin:There were schools.Steve Baldikoski:Mike were together for a long time. That's the old model. I don't see that anymore. I wish it was there. Because to to be honest with you, like when Brian and I made the jump from co-executive producers of Fuller House to executive producers, it, it was like, we are being thrown to the wolves after 25 years. Yes. Because because of jumping from show to show, to show like younger writers do now all the time. I, I didn't learn those skills mm-hmm. . And so we didn't really know that much about editing, you know, sweetening like it, how's our camera coverage. Right. you know, all all of those little things that, you know, I had to, I had to learn them very, very quickly. And so luckily I had a, a great, you know, you know, crew that all wanted to help us as, you know, learn as well. But yeah, there is no system. I wish there wasMichael Jamin:Like, I even think like multi-camera, like you, back in the day, you'd come out of a school like we basically . We, we kind of came out of the Frazier school cause Levitan came outta Frazier, which came outta the cheer school. And it was like that kind of pedigree that you had and you're just learning from all those people. And then now, like, there's so few multi cams. Like if they were to bring back multi cams, well who's gonna do it? Who knows how to do it? Because it's different than doing a single camera.Steve Baldikoski:It's funny, it's funny you say that because that's why I'm calling onto the business. Yeah. that I'm hoping, I'm hoping that that we can stick around long enough that it will come back at some point. UhhuhMichael Jamin:. Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:I, I love the format. Like, I mean that's, that's one of the things that like really me about Fuller House is you know, I was able to be there for like five years mm-hmm. . and I never really had to worry about, you know, job security and it, it was this amazing place and we, and there were fans of the show and, and it was just great to write for them. And so that spoiled me, you know, now that that kind of is, you know, has gone away now that Fuller house is no longer on the air. Friday night was my drug, you know, cuz you know, Friday night I love putting on a show every week and I miss that.Michael Jamin:Here's my pitch Fullest house. Pay me. That's,Steve Baldikoski:That's, that's a great idea. That's a great, I wonder, I wonder if anyone pitched that to me, before the day I started.Michael Jamin:I wonder if anybody pitched that to me. Your shitty joke. .Steve Baldikoski:So was it one of my low IQ children?Michael Jamin:. Well then, so then what do you do? So what do you do now? I mean you're obviously you're developing and, andSteve Baldikoski:So, so now I I'm, I'm working on a, a, a new multi-camera idea. I'm very excited aboutMichael Jamin:And Gone Steve Baldikoski:Haven'tMichael Jamin:Taken it out yet.Steve Baldikoski:Yeah. no, I'm just, I I I, I think I finally ha I have the pilot story. I'm just trying to populate it with all the other, all the other things.Michael Jamin:Okay. And then, and thenSteve Baldikoski:With all the other characters cuz I basically started with the central character, Uhhuh . It is kind of high concept, but I don't wanna give it away. I I'll talk to you off camera about it. Okay. with the central character and then that led to a bigger world. Then populate that world kind of how to, how I want to, how I wanna fit tonally into that world. Like it's, it's, it's an idea that would, to me, it feels a little in the vein of what we do in the shadows.Michael Jamin:Oh, okay. Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:In terms of like a high concept comedy idea. And because I never worked for him, but like, my hero as a sitcom writer is Paul Sims.Michael Jamin:Okay.Steve Baldikoski:And it, you know, my first spec was Ned and Stacy. I mean, I, I was news Radio. Radio. Yeah. And which was run by Paul Sims, created by Paul Sims. And now he runs mm-hmm. . you know, what we do in the Shadows, which I just think is a brilliant, brilliant show.Michael Jamin:So then what do you have, what advice do you have for people? Do you have any advice for people trying to get into the business now? Well,Steve Baldikoski: that's why I'm here. I thought I was seeking advice from you. Yeah.Michael Jamin:You thought you were a, a job.Steve Baldikoski:I thought people were gonna, I thought people were gonna call in and tell me what to do with my life.Michael Jamin:Yeah, exactly.Steve Baldikoski:I, I mean the, the number one thing is like, if you want to be a writer, I think you probably have to move to LA maybe New York. But if you want to be in TV comedy, I think you have to be in LA Yeah. That's the first thing you have to do is move here and then write all, you can write things that make you laugh. Right. That abuse you, because no one else will probably enjoy it. So you might as well, you might as well . And, and also, and also I think you, you, you have to get creative, you know I think social media is a great way to get noticed.Michael Jamin:Mm-Hmm. ,Steve Baldikoski:My wife happens to be an executive on the TV side, and she bought the Twitter feed shit, my dad says when she wasMichael Jamin:Wild. And that was gotta be 10 years ago now.Steve Baldikoski:And Yes. And I, and I think that was like the first thing that a network executive or that a network has like, bought something on, like no one was buying a Twitter feed at the time. Right. And, and I thought that was pretty clever that Wendy started looking at things like that. And I, I think that's a great place to get noticed. Yeah,Michael Jamin:I agree.Steve Baldikoski:Especially for young comedy writers. Does sheMichael Jamin:Still do that? Does she still actively, does she look on social media for other people like that?Steve Baldikoski:She does that. She also she flips through, they get they get proposals of books that are coming out. Not even books that have been written, but just titles of book proposals sometimes.Michael Jamin:Really. AndSteve Baldikoski:She has scanned through that and bought a series based on one of the blurbs that she read aboutMichael Jamin:That I'veSteve Baldikoski:Never heard that. That was, that that was actually the show Atory.Michael Jamin:I Okay. Cuz that's a good title. ISteve Baldikoski:Never heard thatMichael Jamin:Before. So I would, I would, I've always, cause my advice to given people is, well, it's gotta be a bestselling book, but you're sayingSteve Baldikoski:Oh, oh, oh. I'm not, oh, I'm not suggesting that's a way to get noticed,Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:To, to write a book. Although it's not a bad idea. If you have a great life story, write a book or put it on TikTok.Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:I think, I think just if you have a comic voice, there are a million ways to get it out there. Yeah. and my dear friend, a guy named David Arnold was a writer on Filler House and just started showing, you know, doing TikTok videos of, of him and his wife and kids. And then he, like, I think Ellen DeGeneres was the first to share one of his videos, and then that blew up for him. And then he ended up, he was getting sponsored and he was a, he was a standup comic and it was helping out with his standup business. Yeah. And so at the age of, you know, 53, he was discovered on new media, you know, andMichael Jamin:And what would hasSteve Baldikoski:Become little tiny sketches about his family.Michael Jamin:Oh, I, let's talk about Kirsty, which was you, you were, to me, that was a lot of fun. So that was a Kirsty Alley show. Yeah. And you guys brought us in. They needed a a freelance. I don't know why they, but they wanted to have somebody freelance even though you got a, a great writing staff. Oh,Steve Baldikoski:.Michael Jamin:And I like, we're like, we'll do it. And thenSteve Baldikoski:I think, I think our, I think I think your agent said that your teeth were falling out and if you didn't write a script for the medical Oh,Michael Jamin:Not at all. Honestly,Steve Baldikoski:That show,Michael Jamin:Because that was a bunch of heavy hitters on that show. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. We were only sat, we only sat in for a couple days. We walked you guys, we walked in and then you guys said, okay, here's the story. We, we broke it, kind of go write it. We're like, okay. And but it was a, itSteve Baldikoski:Was to start Ted Damson. Sson.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And, and then, and Marco punted it for se the next season thinking it was gonna be a season two Marco, there's no season two . You don't punt that. You shoot it today before, before they pull the plug. Steve Baldikoski:The old, we will use this we'll use scripts season two. Yeah.Michael Jamin:The old season twoSteve Baldikoski:Trick. I don't know if that was him being tricked or you being tricked.Michael Jamin:Honestly, we had a great time. It wasSteve Baldikoski:A great script. It was a greatMichael Jamin:Script. It was fun. It was just fun sitting in with a bunch of people. Yeah, well, a bunch of writers that I respected. SoSteve Baldikoski:No, that was an amazing, that was an amazing experience. I, I, we like Claris Leachman did the show. Mm-Hmm. like some really, you know we, we wrote an episode for John Travolta. Yeah.Michael Jamin:And was it Michael Richards and Ria Pearlman. And it was like, these are good, these are heavy hitters, these are great actors. So, andSteve Baldikoski:The, the night that Claris Leachman did the show, we went out for drinks afterwards, Uhhuh with her. And I ended up sitting next to Kirsty Allie's assistant. And it wasn't until about 10 minutes into my conversation when she mentioned reincarnation, that I realized that I was talking to a high level Scientologist. And then I, and then I noticed she was doing all these Scientology tricks with me, like deep deeply staring into my eyes and not blinking until I blink. It was, it was, it was very bizarre.Michael Jamin:Wow. I I think we can,Steve Baldikoski:That's, that, that's, that's a good enough reason to become a sitcom writer is Yeah. To have someone do Scientology mind tricks on you. ThoseMichael Jamin:Are, that those are all these, those are always good stories when you Yeah. Can you go hang out on the past? Hang out. Yeah. And then what aboutSteve Baldikoski:When, when Clarus Leachman is far from the craziest person at the table? .Michael Jamin:She was, she was pretty wild. Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:Michael Jamin:Did I ever work? I'm trying to remember if I ever worked with her on something. I think I did, but I can't remember what it was.Steve Baldikoski:Gotta be. Just, just shoot me.Michael Jamin:It might have been. I don't remember. I, I, you know, but Okay. Well let's get to baby, let's get to the, what everyone wants to talk about Baby Bob.Steve Baldikoski:Oh,Michael Jamin:, let's go. YouSteve Baldikoski:Saved the best for last.Michael Jamin:I saved the best for last. Let's talk about baby. Well,Steve Baldikoski:I, I believe that Baby Bob was the highest rated show that I've ever been on,Michael Jamin:But they canceled it so fast.Steve Baldikoski:They canceled it. Yes. I think that was a, that was a disconnect where the high, high ups meaning like Les Moon vest when he was running CBSs, I think he wanted Baby Bob to be on the air. Oh. And so that he developed it like two or three times with multiple casts.Michael Jamin:Right. We gotta have a talking baby.Steve Baldikoski:And it was, and, but the, but the Talking baby always stayed the same based on these commercials. Was it Geico? Yes. I think his Geico commercials with the baby Ba with Baby Bob interviewing Shaq Yeah. Is, it's the concept that got everyone all hot and bothered. And so, so Les Moonves bought the show. This is my version of the story, I'm sure it's only partially accurate. But he didn't really include the lower level executives who absolutely hated the show. And so, as Brian and I got hired on the show, we thought, Hey, it's a c b s show. They must like the show. But the reaction from the executives after every table read was basically, how dare you,Michael Jamin:How dare how dare you have the baby talk? How dare you. WhatSteve Baldikoski:Like, just everything about the show seemed to offend the, the c bs executives incivility who were in charge of the show.Michael Jamin:Were, were there anything advertised guys in it? Were they involved at all?Steve Baldikoski:No, not, I don't think so. Kenny Kenny Campbell is the voice and mouth of the baby. Uhhuh . And then actually I didn't know much about babies when I was on the show, but then now when I look back, I realize how creepy it is that a baby has a full set of adult teeth. Yeah. Yeah. That are prominent. If I saw a baby like that in real life, I would run.Michael Jamin:Do you think that was the problem with the show? Steve Baldikoski:, this is the baby's teeth? Well, well the Mike Saltzman, my dear friend who Yeah. Saltman created the show, described it as Frazier, and they happened to have a talking baby.Michael Jamin:The other, so the other Oh, Freeman was Frazier had, okay. Frazier. All right.Steve Baldikoski:And they just happened to have a talking baby. IMichael Jamin:SaltmanSteve Baldikoski:That was, that was Mike'sMichael Jamin:And what, what were the writers do? Did, yeah.Steve Baldikoski:I don't have a lot of memories. . Okay.Michael Jamin:SoSteve Baldikoski:There were a lot of late nights and one night, I think it was about midnight, that I got into a shouting match with one of the other writers about whether or not Baby Bob was a genius.Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:And the other writer was taking the stance of he's not a genius, he's only talking at six months. Mozart was writing symphonies at, at five or seven, and I was shouting and I was yelling about the other side that Mozart was not talking at sick at six months.Michael Jamin:And was everyone looking at you both outta your mind? ?Steve Baldikoski:Yes. Like, it's midnight. Can I go home?Michael Jamin:Can I go home? How get the baby to dance? That's all.Steve Baldikoski:But, but, but, but, but I mean, part of the lesson there is even a show that you think is so, so simple or terrible that you could write it in it, in its in your sleep. Uhhuh . It's not that way. No. No. Because even a show like that is very hard to write. Yes.Michael Jamin:Yes. BecauseSteve Baldikoski:You have so many layers of people to Please,Michael Jamin:Yes. People ask me is they say is a, is a, is a great show. Hard to write than a bad show. No, they're all, they're all kind of hard to write for different reasons. Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:And that, that was, I mean, definitely a lesson. And then another lesson was despite what we felt like, I like it, it is sort of embarrassing to be on a show like Baby Bob when you're on the Paramount lot and then the Frazier Golf Cart drives by and you're in the same business, but you're not in the same business. But when it came to the ratings, baby Bob did huge in the ratings. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like one of the top, I think it's one of the top new comedies that year.Michael Jamin:And that's so interesting. And, and that's, that's the thing people don't realize as well, is that you, you may be a great writer, but if you're in this lane, it's hard to get out of that lane cuz that's how people see you. Yes. And if you're in a great, even if you're even a bad writer on a great show, now you're in that lane. You're in a great ri you're, you know, you, you're inflated. So Yeah. Yeah. yeah. People don't quite realize that.Steve Baldikoski:Yeah.Michael Jamin:And you take, you gotta take the job, you gotta get you, but you take the job you get, you know, so Yeah. And,Steve Baldikoski:And, and you really, and you really don't know if it's gonna pan out.Michael Jamin:No.Steve Baldikoski:Like I remember talking to Al Jane and Mike Reese mm-hmm. when we worked with them and asking them when they got started, they started on the, started on The Simpsons I think coming off of Gary Shaline show and when they were pitched coming on to do this cartoon on Fox.Michael Jamin:Right.Steve Baldikoski:They thought, I think that they thought it was, it was not good for their career.Michael Jamin:It would kill their career. Yeah. And, and now it would make no difference, honestly. Now you what? You take a job, you know, whatever job you can get, you take a job, you know? Yeah. But back then you could make decisions. You could make choices.Steve Baldikoski:Yes. Yeah. I, yeah. And, and interestingly, like back when Brian and I were making lists of shows, we would wanna be on Uhhuh, Simpsons was like a C-level list at the time.Michael Jamin:Uhhuh Really? CauseSteve Baldikoski:We liked it, but we thought it was imminently. We, we didn't, no one still knew it was gonna be on the airMichael Jamin:40 years later.Steve Baldikoski:Yeah. And you know, cuz cuz being on The Simpsons, I think it was like uncool. Then it became cool, then it was uncool.Michael Jamin:Well, in a way it's a little bit of, it's almost golden handcuffs if you're on the Cho. That that's if you're on the Simpsons now, you you're not gonna leave. Yeah. Cause it's job security and get ready to, for writing Bart jokes for the rest of your career, you know. Yeah.Steve Baldikoski:But the crazy thing is that there are writers who are still there, who were there when I was in the mail room at United Town. Sure.Michael Jamin:Yeah. SoSteve Baldikoski:Th there are peopleMichael Jamin:Who, they've made a career at it who,Steve Baldikoski:Yes. So I was in the, I was on the business side of the business. I became an executive and then I was a writer for 25 years. Yeah. And they're still doing the job from the day I got into the business.Michael Jamin:It's so interesting. It's just so, yeah. It's, and I would think creatively it's hard, but you know, you, but the money will make, will make you feel better. You know,Steve Baldikoski:Money makes a lot of things feel better.Michael Jamin:You crying for your 50? Is there a 50 bill? . I wouldn't know what a 50 bill looks like. Fascinating. Dude, thank you so much. We have a good chat. We had a good time.Steve Baldikoski:Steve. Thanks for having me.Michael Jamin:Thank you so much. This is, I, I don't know, I'm always fascinating in, in learning people's journeys and how they got there and so thank you so much for, for being on my little show.Steve Baldikoski:Thank you. And hopefully you have stuff that you don't have to cut.Michael Jamin:Oh, , sorry folks. If you heard the version that, the edited version, we had a trash, a lot of stuff. ,Steve Baldikoski:.Michael Jamin:All right everyone, thank you so much. Remember, we offer, we got a lot of great stuff for you on my website. You can get on my newsletter, you get my free all that stuff. Go to michaeljamin.com and find out what we got there. And I got another webinar coming up. All right everyone, thanks so much. Until next, next week, keep writing.Phil Hudson:This has been an episode where screenwriters need to hear this with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs to hear today's subject. For free daily screenwriting tips, follow Michael on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @MichaelJaminWriter. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @PhilAHudson. This episode was produced by Phil Hudson and edited by Dallas Crane. Until next time, keep writing.

Get another inside scoop of what it's like to work in Hollywood as Michael Jamin sits down and talks with Eric Fogel, a DreamWorks animator.Show NotesEric Fogel Website: https://www.eric-fogel.com/Eric Fogel Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_FogelIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0283888/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutomated TranscriptEric Fogel (00:00):You gotta have, you know, there's, there are a couple of key ingredients, right? You, you gotta have the passion, right. For it, for the craft. You have to have the ability mm-hmm. to have, to have the skills. Michael Jamin (00:14):But you didn't have the ability when you started. Right?Eric Fogel (00:18):I had some ability.Michael Jamin (00:19):Some ability. AndEric Fogel (00:20):I kind of, yeah. I mean, a lot of it is you, you have to immerse yourself and you have to just make things. And you have to learn as you make things. You can't, you know, you can watch YouTube videos all day long, but you gotta like, just get in it.Michael Jamin (00:35):You're listening to Screenwriters Need to hear this with Michael Jamin.Michael Jamin (00:43):Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. This is the podcast that it's not just for screenwriters. Cuz I, I have a special guest today. This is my friend and once collaborator Eric Fogel. And he, we were, we were debating like, how do I, how do I introduce him? Cuz he does so much. He's a writer, he's a director, he's an animator. He's now a dreamworks. And Eric Fogel's now gonna tell us is how, how, how all this works. He's gonna explain to me, Eric Fogel, thank you so much for being on the show. Say hi. Hello.Eric Fogel (01:13):Hello. Hello. Hello.Michael Jamin (01:15):You're not an actor though. That's the one thing you, that's the one credit you don't get.Eric Fogel (01:19):I do a little voice acting.Michael Jamin (01:20):Do you do, doEric Fogel (01:21):You know I've done, yeah, I, yeah, I I actually got my SAG card. Yeah.Michael Jamin (01:25):ReallyEric Fogel (01:27):Little, little.Michael Jamin (01:28):So, so for everyone's listening, so Eric and I worked together years ago on a show called Glen Martin dds, which he cr co-created. And on that show, he was the he was one of the, he directed with me, directed the animation. He was in charge of all the designs, all the character designs. And then he had the misfortune of having to fly back and forth from Los Angeles to Toronto, like every week to oversee the animation focal. How did that, how, how did that all come about? How did, how did you sell that show? How did it come about that show?Eric Fogel (02:01):Man so yeah, I think I was, I was in town. I was, you know, I was living in New York at the time, and so I, I was I, I did a trip out here to, to LA to do like, around the meetings. And I was, I was in my I was up in my manager's office and the, the owner of the company, Gotham sh just kind of walked by and she goes, oh, yeah, he should meet Scoop,Michael Jamin (02:31):Right?Eric Fogel (02:31):And I'm like, what the fuck is a scoop? Can I say ? Is that all right?Michael Jamin (02:37):We all, we're all thinking of it.Eric Fogel (02:38):Yeah. Yeah. What's, what's a Scoop scoop?Eric Fogel (02:43):That was my, so that was my introduction. So yeah, we, we set up a meeting, I met with Scoop in LA on that same trip, I think it was my last meeting. And they had a scriptMichael Jamin (02:55):Just a, so Scoop was a, the nickname of one of the executive producers, or Michael Eisner's company.Eric Fogel (02:59):Scoop is a human. Yeah. He was, I guess running development for Michael Eisner's company, which was Tornante. Yeah, right. And they had, they had a script. They had like a version of a pilot that was written by Alex Berger. Right, right. And you know, it was still pretty rough at that time. It needed, needed some love. And, you know, there was no, there were no designs. You know, there was nothing there. But couple weeks later I met, I g I met with Michael Eisner in New York, and we sat down, we started talking about this project, and he had seen some stuff on my reel, and he saw some, some stop motion that I did, you know, I created Celebrity Death Match. So I think he was aware of, of that. But I, I did this other show called Star Val with a studio called Cup of Coffee in Toronto.Michael Jamin (03:51):I didn't realize that was Cuppa, but Wait, hold on. Was that, was, was what Network was surveillance onEric Fogel (03:56):EMichael Jamin (03:57):E. So I wanna, I wanna slow this down. Yeah. I wanna interrupt you for a second. So celebrity Death Match was like a huge hit. I was on MTV for a couple seasons, right? Yeah. And it was a stop motion animation, and you were in charge, and you create, created that with custom and you were in charge of the a It was a big, it was like a big deal for like, I don't know, 10 minutes, but it was .Eric Fogel (04:17):Yeah, no, we, we, we, we ran for Yeah. A couple years and, you know, close to a hundred episodes a lot.Michael Jamin (04:23):So, all right. But then, okay, so back it up and how, cuz you have a very unusual career because you kind of, you've carved a career for yourself that doesn't really, it doesn't even exist really. You know, not many people who do what you've done. Like, how, how did you start when you were a kid? Did you wanna, what did you wanna be?Eric Fogel (04:41):I, I knew I wanted to be in the film business in some way. I think, you know, when I was, you know, I was always drawing like little comic books when I was a kid. And these, these comic books were basically storyboards.Michael Jamin (04:54):Right. Eric is really good, talented artist. So that, I should mention that Illustra Illustrate. I don't know what you would call yourself. You're good though. Go on. You're okay.Eric Fogel (05:03):But by the time I was like, you know, in, in high school, I, I sort of learned that there was like, you could actually go to school to learn how to make films. Yeah. You know, like, there was such a thing. And, and I became aware of, you know, Y u and that, that sort of became my, you know, the thing that was driving me. I even before that, I started taking some film while I was still in high school. I took a couple film classes at, at school of Visual Arts, just taking college level classes there while, you know, still still a kid in high school and starting to like, figure out how to make, make films and, you know, put stuff together. And then I gotMichael Jamin (05:42):Live, it wasn't stop motion, it wasn't animation, it was just film.Eric Fogel (05:45):It was live action. I was still, I was also experimenting, you know, I got, I got a super eight camera, so I was trying, I was trying some stop motion. I was doing like, hand drawn animation. I was just trying everything I want. I was just absorbing everything. Yeah. You know? And yeah. And then got accepted to NYU and inMichael Jamin (06:05):The film program.Eric Fogel (06:06):Film program. Okay. 19. Yeah. Graduated class of 91.Michael Jamin (06:13):91.Eric Fogel (06:13):And, you know, I was pretty prolific there. Like they, I think they only required you to make, to finish like one film. And I ended up making four, finishing four films. Two were live action and two were animated. Right. And one of the animated films was this really violent like a post-apocalyptic thing. It was called The Mutilated. I've heard ofMichael Jamin (06:39):It. Ok.Eric Fogel (06:40):That, yeah, there's actually a,Michael Jamin (06:42):Well, look, you gotta sell. Okay.Eric Fogel (06:44):Yeah. There's a mu later.Michael Jamin (06:46):That's from, and that was from a college?Eric Fogel (06:48):Yeah, this was my college. This was my college film. Mutilate. But the, so this film got got licensed to like a, an animated like a film festivalMichael Jamin (07:02):Called, well, you, wait, you submitted it to a film festival. What doEric Fogel (07:04):They They saw it, they saw it in the Y U Circuit. Okay. Cause premiered there. And then they reached out to me and they said, we wanna a license Mutilators to be, it was a Spike and Mike spike and Mike's Festival of Animation.Michael Jamin (07:19):Right.Eric Fogel (07:20):AndMichael Jamin (07:21):So they paid you forEric Fogel (07:22):It? They, they wrote me a check, and that was the first time, you know, someone was like, paying me to, to make a thing.Michael Jamin (07:30):And then what happened?Eric Fogel (07:31):So I said, all right, that, that worked well. I want to keep doing that. So I just kept making, making like little short films. And I, I licensed a couple more to, to those guys, to the Spike and Mike Festival. And they would do this thing where they would, they would option the film, but they would also give you like com like a little money to, to finish the film. Which was, which was pretty, you know, it's not a, not a great deal. But it was, at that timeMichael Jamin (07:59):It was, these were like shorts, right?Eric Fogel (08:01):Yeah. Yeah. Just shorts. But, you know, you would send them, like, you could send them like a pencil test, and then they, they'd say like, here's a couple grand to finish it. And then, then they would like show it in their, their circuit.Michael Jamin (08:15):So, all right. So then, but you're okay, you're selling some stuff. It's got after college, you're not making a fortune. Yeah. You're, but you also have like a day job.Eric Fogel (08:24):I was I was hired. So I started working in a, in a small animation studio in New York, Uhhuh at that time. And I was learning, you know, just learning stuff. So one of the one of the directors at that studio he, he had a little problem with substance, substance abuse problem. Interesting. I'm not gonna mention any, any names, but he would, he would spend a lot of time just sleeping, sleeping it off. Yeah. And I, and he and I would, I would be animating his shots. And that's how I learned a lot of, a lot of stop motion. It was, it was like a stop motion studio. And I learned a lot. SoMichael Jamin (09:01):You, so you're right. So this is before computer animation, really. You're just kind of you're drawing, you're basically cell by frame By frame.Eric Fogel (09:07):Yeah. Yeah. And just using like a big old Mitchell 35 millimeter camera, just frame one frame at a time.Michael Jamin (09:14):And then, okay, so you did that for a little bit, then what happened?Eric Fogel (09:17):So at, so at the same time, I'm still making these little short films eventually.Michael Jamin (09:23):What was the point of making these short films, though? They're not adding slide actionEric Fogel (09:26):To get a reel together. So, so you to have like a sample sample of your, your stuff. Right. So eventually this real end ends up on the desk at the president of MTV Animation.Michael Jamin (09:40):How, how did it wind up there?Eric Fogel (09:42):I don't know.Michael Jamin (09:44):, but this is a good point. Like, cuz you're just putting your work out there. Yeah. And it's gonna, and it's good. So it's making the rounds, right?Eric Fogel (09:51):Yeah. It's, well, it's, it's, it's making the rounds. I don't know if it's good, but PE people are, there's no, but if itMichael Jamin (09:58):Wasn't good, they wouldn't pass it along. I mean, that's the truth.Eric Fogel (10:01):Yeah. Well, it, it was something, you know, at that time, M T V was, you know, animation was brand new and they, they were looking, you know, they were just looking for weird shit. Yeah. You know, and they saw, they, you know, they probably saw this, this spike in Mike festival and, and you know, like liquid television was becoming a thing. Right, right. And so they were hungry for stuff and, you know, just weird stuff. Right. And I, you know, I had some weird stuff on my reel.Michael Jamin (10:27):Yeah, you did. Well, yeah. And so, okay, so then what happened?Eric Fogel (10:31):So they, so M T v made, made me a deal to option this mutilated.Michael Jamin (10:37):Okay. AndEric Fogel (10:37):The plan was to have the, the Mutilators character appear within the Beavis and Butthead show. Mm-Hmm. . And, and it would be like, it was gonna be like this thing that they were gonna watch on tv and it was gonna be this cool thing that they liked. Right. Kind of fit, fit with their, their thing. Yeah. And then something, something tragic happened there were, there were some kids out west somewhere who burned their family's trailer down. And they said they, they learned how to, like, about fire from Beavis and Butthead.Michael Jamin (11:15):Oh, I, I At least it wasn't mutilated.Eric Fogel (11:18):No, no. But this created this whole wave, like this backlash. And all of a sudden MTV got scared and they said, oh, you know, we got, we can't, we have to be careful. And Mutilators was like violent. Yeah. Even though it was, it was sci-fi it was fantasy violence. It wasn't real. Yeah. But they were, they were just, they got cold feet. So I went to this meeting knowing that they were gonna shit can Mutilators and, and I had already set up like a little studio in my, in my house at, on Long Island, and I was like in production on this thing. So I was, I was nervous. Yeah. So I go to this meeting and, and Mike Judge is actually there. Mike Judge, the creator of Beavis and Butthead, he's, he's in this meeting and they're like, Eric, you know, we we're not, we can't go forward with Mutilators, but we, we like you, do you have anything else?(12:08):And I, I had this storyboard. I actually brought it to that meeting. And this, it was for this other thing that I had come up with about this guy with like a giant head and, and an alien that lived inside of this head. And it was like, about the symbiotic relationship Yeah. Between a guy, a guy, and an alien. And my judge, I just, I'll never forget this. He was kind of like hanging back and he was looking at my drawings and he was just laughing. Yeah. And these other two MTV execs were like, oh, Mike, Mike likes it. We should buy this. And they did and,Michael Jamin (12:44):And Muo was that,Eric Fogel (12:45):That was called the Head. Right. And that was it was part of like, it was called MTV's Oddities.Michael Jamin (12:51):Uhhuh .Eric Fogel (12:51):And that was, I was like 24 or 25. And that was the first show that I ran as a creator.Michael Jamin (12:58):But this is the kind of, this speaks to which is so important. It's like you were making this stuff because you were making it, and you were, it wasn't like, it wasn't even like, you weren't trying to sell that you were just making, you had, you have to have stuff to have.Eric Fogel (13:09):I had an idea.Michael Jamin (13:10):Right. And you worked on it. You didn't wait to get paid on it. You worked on it.Eric Fogel (13:14):Yeah.Michael Jamin (13:15):Right. And so, and you were, you were right. Did you have a small staff on that show?Eric Fogel (13:20):Yeah, we had, you know, we had a full staffMichael Jamin (13:23):On that and now was at Outta New York.Eric Fogel (13:26):We, we did, we ran the, the show out of, yeah. Out of MTV Animation in Midtown Manhattan. Wow. You know, set up shop there. I wrote, and I wrote an and show around that show with a, I had a, a writing partner at that time. And yeah, we wrote all the episodes and it was, it was wonderful because it was like, it's not like now, like, it was like, they were hands off, like creatively. They were like, yeah, great. It's great. Just do it. Do it. Do what you want. Do what you want.Michael Jamin (13:57):Interesting. That's so interesting. Wow. And then, and then at what point was this? Is there, what point did you make a leap to LA? Or, or am I missing something in between?Eric Fogel (14:05):Yeah, so I, you know, I stuck it out. So after the head, I did Celebrity Death Match.Michael Jamin (14:10):Right. That was outta New York.Eric Fogel (14:11):And then, you know, I continued working at small studios in New York. MTV animation closed, like shortly after nine 11, they shuttered. And, you know, business in New York kind of started to dry up after nine 11.Michael Jamin (14:27):There wasn't, there was never even a lot of business in New York. But I didn't even, you know,Eric Fogel (14:30):You No, but there was, yeah, there was, you know, m there was M T V and then there was some small commercial studios there. And I continued working at some of those smaller studios. You know, and we, all our family was there, so Right. We were sort of resisting the, the, the big move to, to la And then finally in 2008 when Glen Martin happened, and we made the move.Michael Jamin (14:54):Right. With your whole family. Yes. And then you flew back to tra that was the tragic part. If you had only stayed in New York, , your flight would've been soEric Fogel (15:02):Much. Yeah. I was like, honey, here's, here's our house kids. There's, there's your rooms. I gotta go. You guys figure it out.Michael Jamin (15:11):Enjoy the sunshine.Eric Fogel (15:13):My, my wife's still, she, you know, she, she's still pissed at me. We, no, we love each other, but No, it was, it was a tough move. We didn't know anybody here in la. Right. You know, it was a big, it was a big, big adjustment. And yeah, it was bit a shock.Michael Jamin (15:29):What does she think of it now? Is she happy you're here or No,Eric Fogel (15:31):I think, yeah, we've, we've made our peace with it. You know, we still miss our family. Our families are still all back east. Yeah. but we, we feel like it was a good thing for our family, you know, for our kids.Michael Jamin (15:44):Oh, you think so? You think they're, they're probably getting ready for college now. Your kids?Eric Fogel (15:48):Oh, they're almost done.Michael Jamin (15:50):They're almost done withEric Fogel (15:50):Cops. Well, one is, yeah. One our oldest is out. He's already graduated. And our, we have twin girls and they're graduating this this year.Michael Jamin (15:57):Oh God. We'll talk about that one. I know. Wonder what that's gonna happen. What happened there? Okay, so then, and then, alright. We did Glen Martin. And the thing about that is, so my partner and I were siber, we write these episodes. We come into your office and say, this is, this is the crazy that the craziest job you ever No, probably not. Cuz we would give you an assignment, like, this is the, what does this character look like in your head? Then you'd sketch a design and then we'd maybe give you notes or not. And then you'd run off. Then you'd fly to Toronto and they started a animated this thing. And you had to oversee every time there was a problem, we'd yell at you . And, and then you'd have to fixEric Fogel (16:33):It. Then I go yell at them and you'dMichael Jamin (16:35):Yell at them. And there was, yeah. There was always problems. It's always you know, because it's a, it's such a long process to, it took, you know, nine months to animate that show.Eric Fogel (16:43):That that show. I mean, there will never be another show like that. Right.Michael Jamin (16:49):Why do you feel that way?Eric Fogel (16:50):It was, I mean, just the concept was super ambitious, right? Yeah. You got, you got a family, you know, traveling from, from town to town every episode. Yeah. So every single episode you have to build a brand new world for this family to play in. Yeah. Right. That's a huge amount to build. And you have to build it all from scratchMichael Jamin (17:16):There. And there was a lot, we also did a lot of CGI on. We, not a lot. Some, you know, not,Eric Fogel (17:21):Not a lot.Michael Jamin (17:22):The mouses, the mouses, and also sometimes the backgrounds. Right. We would doEric Fogel (17:26):We would do some green screen. We'd do green screen. But, but a lot of those, I mean, most of those sets were, were Yeah. Physical, practical, physical models.Michael Jamin (17:36):I have all, I still have my dolls, just so you know. They're all here.Eric Fogel (17:40):Oh, hey, wait, IMichael Jamin (17:41):Got one. You have more. I remember when you had, you had your dolls. I was like, how do I get a hand? How do I get my hand on someone? Focals Dolls Eric Fogel (17:48):There.Michael Jamin (17:49):How Steal your dog. Which one's that? What's, oh, wait, but is that, was that from Glen? What was he, what was that?Eric Fogel (17:54):That hok? Honk Hawks The Clown. The Killer Clown. That'sMichael Jamin (17:57):Oh, we see What episode was that?Eric Fogel (17:59):I don't know. Sunshine. Fun, fun, fun. Bill Hawks.Michael Jamin (18:02):The Killer Clown did. There's so much about that show. I don't even remember.Eric Fogel (18:04):Remember who did The Voice?Michael Jamin (18:07):Who?Eric Fogel (18:08):Ty Burrell.Michael Jamin (18:09):That was Ty. Dude. We can you imagine We directed some amazing, amazing, remember we did, we directed Brian Cranston. Yep. When he was coming off break, he was doing BreakingEric Fogel (18:19):Bad. Still doing it. Yeah. Yeah.Michael Jamin (18:21):And he loved it. He's like, this is great.Eric Fogel (18:24):. He was amazing. We almost, we almost had a spinoffMichael Jamin (18:28):With him. Yes. Hi. That's him over here. Yeah. That'sEric Fogel (18:32):Drake Stone.Michael Jamin (18:34):That was a bummer. That didn't happen.Eric Fogel (18:36):Yep.Michael Jamin (18:36):Yep. Oh, well,Eric Fogel (18:38):But the cat, yeah. I, I mean we should talk about some of the other day players on that show because I meanMichael Jamin (18:45):Yeah, we, I mean it was amazing. The cat, we Every,Eric Fogel (18:48):Every day. Mel Brooks.Michael Jamin (18:50):Mel Brooks. Right.Eric Fogel (18:51):Billy Idol.Michael Jamin (18:53):Billy Idol. I don't remember Billy Idol.Eric Fogel (18:55):. He did a, he did the Christmas episode and he sang a song. He sang aMichael Jamin (18:59):Oh, right. Maybe it wasn't there. That I remember we had friend Drescher. Yeah. Remember were you there thatEric Fogel (19:04):Day? Yep.Michael Jamin (19:05):And we couldn't get her Remember? So, so Erica, we direct together, we'd whispered each other and it's not quite right. How did we get her to do, you know? And then I remember we finally walked up to her cuz she wasn't, the character wasn't quite white. And I was said, listen, can you do the nanny? She's like, oh sure. And then the then she started basically doing the nanny.Eric Fogel (19:23):You want the nanny,Michael Jamin (19:25):You want the nanny. You kind of, youEric Fogel (19:26):Want it, youMichael Jamin (19:27):Don't wanna ask. You wanna, you don't really wanna ask. You wanna get them there. Yeah. You know, I don't wanna insult her, but she was like, delight French. She was so sweet.Eric Fogel (19:35):Alison Jenny, she was great. She an Alexander.Michael Jamin (19:38):Yep.Eric Fogel (19:39):George Decay.Michael Jamin (19:40):Decay.Eric Fogel (19:42):My God. Fergie.Michael Jamin (19:44):Yep. Yep.Eric Fogel (19:47):I meanMichael Jamin (19:47):So much. Mc Hammer, we remember we had Mc HammerEric Fogel (19:50):Pen. GilletteMichael Jamin (19:51):Pen Gillette. I forgot. She's the what? A Oh my God.Eric Fogel (19:54):Was Jean Simmons.Michael Jamin (19:57):. Jean Simmons. Yeah. I remember that. . That was a day. And then, okay, so then once, once Glen Martin went down. Yeah. What happened to you then?Eric Fogel (20:08):? I don't know. What happened. So, you know, it was, that was a sort of a tricky time because I, I, I had to kind of reinvent myself. Did.Michael Jamin (20:20):Right.Eric Fogel (20:20):I was here in town. We did that show. That show was ama you know, it was an amazing experience, but nobody fucking saw it.Michael Jamin (20:29):Right,Eric Fogel (20:29):Right.Michael Jamin (20:30):And no one understood what you did on it either, because you create, you, you, you kind of invented a, you were a necessary incredibly important cog. But who, how do you describe, you know, how do you describe it to people? I, cause I'm even asking you, well, you were, you were one of the executive producers, but I'm almost like, well, what was your ion job? I mean, what, that was your job title, but it'd be, it'd be hard for me to describe what you did. Cause you did so much.Eric Fogel (20:53):Yeah. I mean, I guess on that show I was, I was more of a directing showrunner.Michael Jamin (20:58):Is that what you would call it?Eric Fogel (20:59):If you Yeah. Because, you know, I feel like there are some categories, right, with show like showrunners. So there are writing showrunners, which I consider like you and cber were like the writing showrunners. And I was on that show. More of a, the directing maybeMichael Jamin (21:14):Actually May in King of the Hill. I think they would call it a supervising director. Is that what you wereEric Fogel (21:18):Maybe. I mean, I don'tMichael Jamin (21:21):Supervise all the directors,Eric Fogel (21:22):Basically. It's different. Yeah. I guess there's, they're different credits.Michael Jamin (21:26):Yeah. I re Yeah, it was hard. It was a hard, there was so much for you to oversee. It was crazy.Eric Fogel (21:34):Yeah. And it's, I mean, and, and I love that. Like, that's, for me, that's what I do. It's soup to nuts, just mm-hmm. every, every piece of the production, I just, I I like to have a hand in holiday.Michael Jamin (21:50):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Michael Jamin (22:14):So how did you reinvent yourself? Like what does that mean really?Eric Fogel (22:17):So I was here in town and after Glenn Martin, you know, there were, we had a, there were a couple things, but a couple things fell through. We were gonna do, there was another show mm-hmm. that I, I was developing with to, and it was this was weird. But we, this we, we developed this show alongside BoJack. Right. So it was like Scoop was working on, on BoJack. And then we had this other project and we, we actually sold this other project to a network. We had like, like an a, an agree, like an accepted offer. And it looked like it was going forward until the head of the studio just decided, eh, didn't wanna do animation.Michael Jamin (23:01):Yeah.Eric Fogel (23:02):That happened. So that, that got killed. And so I had to find some, some work. I ended up directing a show at Nickelodeon and it was a CG show. Mm-Hmm. . So I wanted to, it was, it was more of a kids show. Right. And it was, you know, I wanted to have the experience of, of directing cg. Okay. So I did that for a few years and it's, you know, that, and then it, you, you sort of, there you, there's stepping stones andMichael Jamin (23:31):That's just a big learning curve though.Eric Fogel (23:34):There's, there is a learning curve for sure. And it was important to me to, to have,Michael Jamin (23:39):Because you didn't learn, you didn't study that in college. What did you know about it?Eric Fogel (23:41):They didn't have, they didn't have computer animation there. Right. So you just have to, the best way to, to learn is to just be immersed in it. Right. Just on the Jobb training. So I, I did, I got that experience and that, that experience led me to, to Dreamworks.Michael Jamin (24:00):Right. And how, and you've been at Dreamworks for six years. And what do you do, what are you doing at Dreamworks? Basically do, are you, do you have a studio deal with Dreamworks? Is that what it'sMichael Jamin (24:08):Overall deal or something?Eric Fogel (24:09):They, I'm under contract. So right now it's kind of show to show.Michael Jamin (24:15):Alright. So you have a contract and they, they put you on whatever show they have going.Eric Fogel (24:19):Yeah, but they also were nice enough to keep me around. So they sort of put me on an overall deal. Cuz there was like a gap between shows. So that, that was very nice of them. Yeah. Keep me,Michael Jamin (24:31):They don't wanna lose you.Eric Fogel (24:32):I guess. They like me enough to keep me.Michael Jamin (24:34):It's so interesting cause I just had one of my previous guys, I may, I dunno if you know 'em, you probably don't. But John Abel and Glen Glen, they do all the kung They're the writers, the kung fu pander writers. They do a lot of dreamwork stuff.Eric Fogel (24:45):Yeah. Guys.Michael Jamin (24:46):Oh, you do, do you work with them?Eric Fogel (24:48):I haven't, but I'm familiar with them.Michael Jamin (24:50):So what exactly are you doing at Dreamworks then? We, as from jumping from show to show?Eric Fogel (24:55):Yeah. So they hired me initially, this is now almost six years to the day I started doing a show called Archibald's, next Big Thing. Mm-Hmm. , which was created by Mr. Tony Hale.Michael Jamin (25:10):Oh, he created, I know he's in it. I didn't know he created it.Eric Fogel (25:12):Created and voiced and was an, was an exec producer.Michael Jamin (25:18):And, and it's What network is that? Nickelodeon.Eric Fogel (25:21):That was so we started on Netflix. Okay. So we produced here at Dreamworks, we premiered on Netflix season one. And then season two we were on PeacockMichael Jamin (25:34):And Oh, is that, is there, is there a season three in the works or what?Eric Fogel (25:37):No, no. So the thing to know about animation these days is they don't order a a lot of episodes. It's, you know, the, it's, they've, especially on these streaming platforms.Michael Jamin (25:48):Oh, well that's the way it is for a live actually. Yeah. So what are you doing, se like 13 or something?Eric Fogel (25:53):We did two. So for Archibald we did two seasons and it was it was like 50. It ended up being like 50 half hours or fif 50. It's actually a hundred, a hundred episode. There are 11 minute episodes. So we did 111 minute episodes.Michael Jamin (26:08):That's actually, and are you, what are you, are you running the show? Are you running it? AreEric Fogel (26:11):You So I so that on that show, I was, I was exec producing, I was a writer and I was, I was basically doing a little of everything. Same, same thing. Directing, writing, overseeing every aspect of it.Michael Jamin (26:25):But it's not like every writer, there's a writing staff on that show. Right.Eric Fogel (26:29):We, we had, we had a, a staff and we had a couple head writers who, and they, those guys were great. I love those guys. They had never run, run a show before.Michael Jamin (26:39):Uhhuh .Eric Fogel (26:40):So I felt like I could be helpful there, you know, just in the writer's room and, and just, it just sort of organically evolved to where, you know, I didn't expect to be so involved in, in the writing process on that show. It just, it just turned out like, it just was a natural,Michael Jamin (26:57):That's the whole thing. You have a very unusual career path in career because cuz you do so many things.Eric Fogel (27:04):Yeah. I mean, I don't, there's no rules for this. I'm just making thisMichael Jamin (27:07):Up. Yeah. There's no rule. So, I mean, it's quite impressive because like, if I, I don't know what, what would, what, how would you advise? You must have kids come into you, Hey, how do I, how do I get to do what you do? Like what do you tell them?Eric Fogel (27:23):I mean you gotta have, you know, there's, there are a couple of key ingredients, right? You, you gotta have the passion,Michael Jamin (27:31):Right.Eric Fogel (27:32):For it, for the craft. You have to have the ability mm-hmm. have to have the skills. Michael Jamin (27:39):But you didn't have the ability when you started. Right.Eric Fogel (27:42):I had some ability. SomeMichael Jamin (27:44):Ability.Eric Fogel (27:44):And I kinda, yeah. I mean a lot of it is you have to immerse yourself and you have to just make things and you have to learn as you make things. You can't, you know, you can watch YouTube videos all day long, but you gotta like just get in it. And now it's one, you know, we have, the technology has changed so much. It's made it so much easier. Mm-Hmm. to make things. NowMichael Jamin (28:08):With those like those animation program, I mean, do you do anything like that on the side for yourself? Like what? Or, or, I mean, you know, at home for anyone? IEric Fogel (28:17):Don't have time for that. No. I these days. Yeah. I mean, I, I'm, you know, this, this job keeps, keeps me. ButMichael Jamin (28:24):Let's say you had a side project that you just wanted to get off the ground. Yeah. You just pitched the idea.Eric Fogel (28:29):I could, yeah. I mean, I have put things together and I've made, yeah. I've been able to make little animations you know, for projects, original projects that I've pitched. And I'll, I'll put together a whole presentation. I'll do all the visuals. I'll edit it and, and put together Yeah. Like little proof of concepts, right? That yeah. That stuff is, yeah. I love doingMichael Jamin (28:49):That. And that's on your own, but that's on your own time.Eric Fogel (28:51):That is on my own time. YourMichael Jamin (28:53):Own with, with some program you have.Eric Fogel (28:55):Yep.Michael Jamin (28:56):What's, what kind of program is this? What, what is it?Eric Fogel (28:58):I mean, I, you can, you can animate with Photoshop now. Oh. So that's, you know, that's, that's a thing. I, I use Sony movie Maker, which is this archaic system. I, I just, I'm really comfortable with it and I, I can use that to, to build projects and I can even animate on that thing.Michael Jamin (29:16):Are you doing any stop motion anymore?Eric Fogel (29:18):I haven't done stop motion in a long time.Michael Jamin (29:20):Because why the market part?Eric Fogel (29:24):You know, it's, it's just the, the right project hasn't really surfaced. And you know, I've, I've, I've pitched Project stop motion is a hard one to sell. People are afraid of it.Michael Jamin (29:36):Is it the look that's the, that's the criticism I get. They go that, here's the thing. Every, so I've been, I post a lot on social media and people will say, oh, I used to watch Glen Martin. And the, the phrase that comes back is that show is a fever dream. I was like, what's a fever dream? But everyone describes it as a fever dream. And what thatEric Fogel (29:55):Mean? Like, creepy. IMichael Jamin (29:56):Think it means like, like you were, they were in like, it felt like they were in an opium den, den era.Eric Fogel (30:03):. What it felt like for me.Michael Jamin (30:05):What's that?Eric Fogel (30:06):It's what it felt like for me Felt likeMichael Jamin (30:07):To, I mean, but it's like I, I, I don't know. There's something about like, I always like that format. Cause I always like this old bank and resting,Eric Fogel (30:17):Right. Bank ranking and backMichael Jamin (30:18):And best. Yeah. I always thought,Eric Fogel (30:20):Yeah. I mean, some people have got, I love, I've always loved the, the look of stop motion and you know, it's, there's something super charming and not just like, endearing about the, like the handcrafted aspect aspect of it. Right. Right. It's so cool. ButMichael Jamin (30:35):Don't feel that way. I guessEric Fogel (30:36):It's al it's always been the kind of like the redheaded stepchild of animation though, you know? Yeah. Always on. Always on the, on the fringes. And now, you know, it's hard enough to sell a show, any show. Right. Uhhuh . But it's in ama in the, in the animation industry, it feels like they're, they're only looking for, for CG animation these days. And there's just,Michael Jamin (30:56):Is that right? I mean, what, explain the different types of animation, because obviously there's, there's like, yeah. CG, like Shrek or somethingEric Fogel (31:03):Mm-Hmm.Michael Jamin (31:03): and then go on there actually different levels in terms of, you know, expense. What, how does that work?Eric Fogel (31:11):I mean, there, you know, there, so there there's like traditional hand drawn animation. But even that is all done mostly in computer these days. So there, there's no more like, hand painted cells. Right. But the actual movement, a lot of that stuff can still be done, done by hand.Michael Jamin (31:29):Uhhuh,Eric Fogel (31:29):. And then, you know, you got stop motion, you got cg and there, there are worlds in between where, you know, stylistically they, they're, they're doing a lot of thing, you know, design wise, they're kind of blending the, all the techniques.Michael Jamin (31:44):But it must be in terms of like, when they tell you what the budget of the show is, that greatly determines how good it's gonna look in the, how the, you know, the animation.Eric Fogel (31:52):Right. It can, you know, so right now I'm working on Megamind, the, the sequel to the, to the 2010 film Megamind. Right. And that's gonna air later this year. And I can't say a lot about it cuz they haven't announced a lot about it. Right. But the quality the quality of the animation, the technology has improved so much. Mm-Hmm. that even, even on a, a smaller tier budget, you can still, the quality of the animations really it's really improved.Michael Jamin (32:31):Right. So, so when you sell a show or when they bring you on a show, are you asking these questions or it's like, ah, someone else, you know, in terms of like, how much money do we get to spend on?Eric Fogel (32:42):Well they, yeah. They tell me and then I have to figure out how to make the show.Michael Jamin (32:47):Right. They tell you. Right. And so where will you cut corners or something.Eric Fogel (32:52):Yeah. So, so that's where it gets challenging. And, and you have to become very, you know, creative and, and and problem solving to, to be able to deliver. Right. The show the show you want and the show that they want with within these, you know, what, what can sometimes be a very small sandbox.Michael Jamin (33:10):Yeah.Eric Fogel (33:10):You know,Michael Jamin (33:11):And then so what, so what are you, you know, what are your ambitions or future ambitions or, you know, what, what excites you coming up or whatEric Fogel (33:20):You know, I would, I'd love to expand the Sandbox and be able to make a, make a leap into directing a feature would be really exciting. Oh really? Yeah.Michael Jamin (33:31):At at Dreamworks or, or any place really.Eric Fogel (33:34):Yeah. I mean I love it here. So I I would for sure love to direct a feature here. Right. But that, that would, you know, that would be a, a dream to, to be able to do that someday and, and to be able to, you know, spend three years, you know, focusing on, on like 90 minutes of content as opposed to, you know, hundreds of minutes of, of content to be able to like microfocus on that.Michael Jamin (34:00):It's so interesting cuz for me it's kind of other way around. Like, I, I, you know, I have to, I don't know. Cuz you get to every, every week you get, all right, here's something new. I have to live with something. But you're saying you, because you really wanna make the qual, you really want to spend time to make sure every frame is right.Eric Fogel (34:17):I would love, yeah, that would be, that would be a dream. Because in TV animation, you know, it's, it's like there's always this, this schedule. You're a slave to the schedule.Michael Jamin (34:29):Right.Eric Fogel (34:29):And you, you know. And soMichael Jamin (34:31):Are you, are you in the Glendale campus of Dreamwork? Is that where you are? Yeah. Are you there right now? Yeah, this is, this is really your,Eric Fogel (34:38):This is my office.Michael Jamin (34:39):This is your real office over at Dreamworks. People fa Okay. So you're okay. I don't even know if they with Covid if you're working from home or not.Eric Fogel (34:47):I still, yeah, I'm here a couple days a week.Michael Jamin (34:50):Uhhuh Eric Fogel (34:50):These days.Michael Jamin (34:52):And, and cuz this is your show. So you, well, are you working with writers? You know, how are you, how, how involved are you right now with Theri? Is there a writer's room or whatEric Fogel (35:00):Where, so the writing is, is wrapped on this show, but we were really fortunate because we got the two guys Brent Simons and Alan Schoolcraft, who wrote the original Megamind mm-hmm. were brought, were brought in as, as eps to, to basically help Showrun and, and run the writer's room. So having those guys was, was a gift, you know, cuz they, they kind of, they invented Megamind. So,Michael Jamin (35:30):And this is all on the Dreamworks campus? The writer's?Eric Fogel (35:32):Yeah. We did the writing here. A lot of the, a lot of the, the create a lot of art on this show is done not in Toronto. It's a lot of it's done in Vancouver.Michael Jamin (35:42):Oh, are you, are you ma are you making the trip up there? DoEric Fogel (35:46):You have to? I've been up there. I've been up there a couple of times. But we are, luckily, yeah, now that we've got, you know, zoom, it's, you know, I can do a lot of this right here. A lot of the work I can do right here.Michael Jamin (35:58):See, that's so wait, so, so they are, these subcontract, subcontracting out a lot of the animation at Dreamworks. I I kind of, it was under the impression they did it all themselves.Eric Fogel (36:07):They have always had partner studios, even like on the early features they, they were partnering with, with studios. So there's always been this sort of hybrid model on this particular show. Almost all of the, the, the art, the art side of it is, is outsourced on, on this show. Michael Jamin (36:29):Interesting. And then, and so they're actually, okay, so the animation houses are there. I mean, basically if you're an, so if you're an animator, it's interesting, there's different levels of animation, animators. This is all, and I've worked, I've worked in animation for many years. I still don't understand how it works. But but like, I remember like when we worked I worked at it wasn't Bento Box, it was whoever was doing King the Hill, Fort Bento. But Oh,Eric Fogel (36:56):I know who you're talking about.Michael Jamin (36:57):Yeah. I was, I'm forgetting, I'm blanking now. But they, the animators would've to come take tests. You would apply for a job of animator. Yeah. They'd give you a test, draw this frame or whatever, you know, is that how it still works there? Maybe stickEric Fogel (37:11):Computer. Yeah, I mean there's always, you know, it's like anything else, right? You have to audition, right. Or things. And yeah, there are, there are definitely, there's a big kinda leap in terms of skill levelsMichael Jamin (37:26):OfEric Fogel (37:26):Artists. Right. Because so much of art is like subjective.Michael Jamin (37:31):Yeah. It's so, it's so interesting. That's this career. But, and what about, I don't know, live action? Any interest getting back into doing more or? No,Eric Fogel (37:40):I would love to do some, some live action at some point. I, I've got like a horror movie that I would love to try to do one day. And you know, I, I'm, I'm such a huge like, horror sci-fi nut.Michael Jamin (37:55):Right. Are you, and are you pitching other shows as well? Or, or, you know, is how does it work in Dreamworks? So like, we have an idea, we have to show you're hired Fogal. I mean, is that what it is? Basically?Eric Fogel (38:06):They have, yeah. I mean they have a, an in-house development process. And when you're, when you're here, they, you know, there's like a, you have, there's a first look deal. So you, you, if you have an idea, you're sort of obligated to first.Michael Jamin (38:21):Right.Eric Fogel (38:23):And you know, the, so the industry's a little different right now cuz there's, they're not, you know, there aren't, there aren't a lot of shows being sold or bought right now , because it'sMichael Jamin (38:35):No kidding. Is that and is that the way, I didn't know if that's the way it is for animation as well.Eric Fogel (38:40):It is. So, you know, I'm very, very happy to be working on Megamind right now. .Michael Jamin (38:46):Yeah, right.Eric Fogel (38:47):This will keep me employed, you know, for the next year or so. But it's like, you know, it's like anything else. We, we work job to job and there's never any guarantee Nope. That you're gonna get hired again. You just, you know, it's all kind of on good faith.Michael Jamin (39:02):Are you working with the actors too? Directing actors as well?Eric Fogel (39:05):I'm directing all the voice actors on this show.Michael Jamin (39:08):You're the only director. Yeah. And, and then you're also supervising the animation, the, theEric Fogel (39:14):All of it. Yeah, allMichael Jamin (39:15):Of that. Yep. Good for you, man. Carved out quite a little career for yourself.Eric Fogel (39:20):It's fun.Michael Jamin (39:21):Yeah,Eric Fogel (39:21):It's fun. Keeps me busy. But I, I do love it. I do.Michael Jamin (39:25):Do you have any other advice for anybody to, you know, what's, you know, trying to break inEric Fogel (39:31):Other, I mean,Michael Jamin (39:32):Make more,Eric Fogel (39:33):You know, it's, you have to, I, it's a long time ago someone told me like, the recipe for, for a successful whatever show movie, whatever, you know, you find that, that thing that, that you love. You put, you put your, all your heart into that thing. And then, you know, you take what everyone else loves and, and it's kind of like where these two things come together that, that's kind of like your sweet spot, right? That's, that's your hit, that's your success. And so you gotta, you know, you gotta like focus in on what that thing is and, and put everything you have into it.Michael Jamin (40:08):I'm surprised they're not talking about bringing celebrity death mat back. That's gotta be next.Eric Fogel (40:13):There have been a few conversations over the years and there, there have been a couple of attempts to bring it back and we, we did. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's not dead, but ,Michael Jamin (40:27):Do they reach out to you or are you actively trying to sell that?Eric Fogel (40:30):I have. So I guess it's Viacom or Yeah, m t v. They, they own the rights to the show, but we, we have an agreement to, you know, if, if they want to bring it back, I'm, I'm attached to it. Right. And we've had, we've had some attempts and for whatever, well we, we did, we did get close. And then yes the studio that had made an offer, they went away. Michael Jamin (41:00):They went awayEric Fogel (41:01):As, as these things do. I'll, I'll tell you offline more about it, .Michael Jamin (41:05):Alright. Like, when we put the animation, the, the ama the animation studio that made Glen Martin, we put 'em outta business .Eric Fogel (41:12):They, they didn't stay in business long after that. . And it's Yeah. Funny because they, I, I don't know if they, at the time I, I'm not sure if they realized how, what, what a unique opportunity that show was for them.Michael Jamin (41:26):What do you mean by that?Eric Fogel (41:28):The, you know, I, again, like these shows, these stop,Michael Jamin (41:32):Like they, how many stop motion series have there been? Right, right. You know, they're few and far between. Right. That was the Yeah, that's another thing. There's only, they're one of the few people that actually could do it. And I don't, I don't even know what they were doing beforehand. It's Right. So when they went out of business, like there was like, what else are you gonna do? You know, they wanted be like, people aren't lining up. Yeah. Stop for stop motion shows. Right? There's only a handful. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, yeah. Anyway. Is there any way, is there, do you wanna promote anything? Do you want people to follow you anywhere? Is there anything we can do to help you help grow your brand? Eric Fogel. Violent . You can find me. I'm on you can find me on Twitter. Death Match Guy, I think is my, my oh really?(42:19):Twitter handle. I'm verified there. What? Oh. But not on Instagram, just Twitter. I do a little Instagram. I'm not a huge social media person. Yeah. Well, we'll get you there for some weird reason. Yeah. Cause you're, cuz we're the same age. Anyway. All right, dude, I wanna thank you so much. Yeah. I, you've exposed me. I've learned something. Learned something about you and your craft. Yeah, because I, I even remember when we got hired, they said, yeah, we got this guy on, on Glen Martin. We have this guy Eric Fogel. I was like, what does he do? No one can explain it because we do everything. He's the guy. He's the glue, basically. That's what he he's the glue. Yeah. That's, that's it. Yeah. I'm the glue. Yeah. All right, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for, for joining me e. Excellent. that's it everyone. More good stuff next week. Go check out what Eric Fogel's up to. And he's a great guy. Thank you again so much for doing this, man. Don't go anywhere. All right, everyone, until next week.Phil Hudson (43:18):This has been an episode of Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs to hear today's subject. For free daily screenwriting tips, follow Michael on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at @MichaelJaminWriter. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at @PhilAHudson. This episode was produced by Phil Hudson and edited by Dallas Crane. Until max time, keep riding.

This episode is Part Thirty-Five of the epilogue for Stanley's letters, "Dearest Ones," that he wrote to his family throughout the Second World War.  It's early May 1945, and the war in Europe will end on May 7.  Michael G. Sievers, the writer, producer and creator of "The Silver King's War" podcast series, reviews his father's war and writing, while reflecting on The King's role as the best man in his son's wedding in Baltimore, Maryland.  Michael married Mary C. Kelly in Sherwood Gardens on May 7, 1978.  Stanley stood blocks from Glenn Martin's Guilford home on that sunny, Sunday morning, 45 years ago. Contact us: thesilverkingswar@gmail.com Please review "The Silver King's War" on Apple Podcasts Share our hero, The Silver King, with family & friends Share "The Silver King's War" on social media Thank you for listening to our podcast

Hollywood Screenwriter Michael Jamin sits down with Phil Hudson to discuss questions asked by fans and future screenwriters. Questions such as, "Is there plagiarism among screenwriters? How do you prepare for a general meeting with a large production company with a development exec as a screenwriter? When you're a writer's assistant, should you ask for an episode, wait until one is offered, or send the showrunner a draft?"Autogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin (00:00):In terms of stealing ideas, often in a writer's room, someone will say, oh, they, I just saw that episode two weeks ago on whatever show. And then usually the writers will go, Ugh, we won't, we'll kill the idea. So that's not plagiarizing, that's coming up with the idea independently and then killing it because you don't want people to think you plagiarized. You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. Hey everyone, welcome back. It's Michael Jamin. You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear this. I'm here with Phil a Hudson.Phil Hudson (00:33):What up,Michael Jamin (00:34):What up? And we're doing part two of the ask me anything if Phil has some more questions. These are designed for, what kind of questions are these called?Phil Hudson (00:41):Yeah. So ton of questions came in, so we're moving into professional questions. What I kind of grouped that way, aspirationalMichael Jamin (00:49):Part one, if you missed it, we're, if you missed it, that was questions about CRA or craft. Craft.Phil Hudson (00:54):Right. Craft.Michael Jamin (00:54):Yeah. And these are about questions about professional and what else?Phil Hudson (00:59):Aspirational questions. Aspirational, like breaking in and then some general stuff. So, yeah. All right. You ready for this?Michael Jamin (01:06):I'm ready.Phil Hudson (01:07):All right. Professional.Michael Jamin (01:09):Oh, and by the way, the way these people just, if you're new to the podcast, the way people ask these questions is on my social media profile on Instagram @michaeljaminwriter, every couple months we post a blue tile that says, ask me anything. And so if you have questions that I haven't answered, that's, that's where you do it. Put it up there and we'll talk about it.Phil Hudson (01:26):Yep. Awesome. Professional question number one from Give, give Shrimp a chance, which I think is probably one of the best Instagram ta names I've ever heard. I That's good. I will give them a chance actually, Michael, you're vegan, pescatarian, vegetarian. What are you, technicallyMichael Jamin (01:43):I say I'm a vegan, but I do eat fish from every once in a while for protein PEs, but I don't eat any, somePhil Hudson (01:47):PescatarianMichael Jamin (01:48):Then don't, I guess you could say that, but, cause I don't eat any dairy.Phil Hudson (01:51):Got it. Yeah. So you're vegetarians are vegetarian, pescatarians are vegetarians who eat fish. You're not that cuz you're vegan, but you eat fish. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Cool. Good question here. I thought, I thought it was interesting. When you are a writer's assistant, can you ask for an episode or wait until one is offered or draft possible story areas and send them to the showrunner just in case asking for a friend? Well,Michael Jamin (02:17):Good question. Well, you definitely wanna put in your time. You wouldn't, if you're, if you got promoted to writer's assistant, you don't want to, in season one start asking for an episode. You gotta earn the right to be there. So you gotta be there for a full year. And then it's, this is how I feel. And then after, once you're there for, you know, full year or two or whatever, then you can approach your boss and say, Hey, I'd love to be considered for a freelance episode. I'd love to be able to pitch you an idea. And you should have all these ideas on the ready. I mean, you're, you're there. So I don't, you can do, you can come up with ideas season one, but I I I kind of, you wanna make it so that they owe you so that the writer showrunner owes you one so that you're, you're loyal and you've put in the time this is the least they can do is to repay you by giving you an episode.Phil Hudson (03:02):There's also a very clear level of trust displayed if you come back for a second season. Right?Michael Jamin (03:07):Yeah. It means they like you. Yeah,Phil Hudson (03:08):Yeah. So that, so it means that they are looking at you for those opportunities are already considering you. I do. And this is, I, I apologize. I want to say we brought this up last year, so forgive me if this is a little redundant, but I do know that in screenwriting Twitter, there was some conversation about how sometimes you get staffed as a writer's assistant and then your show gets canceled and then you move to another show and you're a writer's assistant there, and then that show gets canceled and that's a process. And so there are people who have been writer's assistants for like five seasons and they may not have ever been on a show for two seasons. What about in a situation like that where you'reMichael Jamin (03:45):Sucks people Yeah. Sucks for you. I mean, it's just, what are you gonna do? That's just the, that's just the way it goes. Yeah. That, that requires luck. What are you gonna do?Phil Hudson (03:54):Okay, here, here's a political question in regard to this subject, which is I'm a writer's assistant below me, right? There's a writer's pa and above me there's a script coordinator. And the script coordinator wants to write freelance episodes probably as well.Michael Jamin (04:12):Yeah.Phil Hudson (04:12):How do you navigate that? Cuz you've got someone else, technically, in my opinion, this is just my experience, they have seniority over you cuz they've probably been working with them longer.Michael Jamin (04:23):The same thing. I mean the, but the bottom line is it's, it's very hard. But getting a freelance episode really isn't like, it's not like it's gonna make your life, it's going to make you feel good about yourself. You're gonna, it's gonna be a, a badge of honor. But after that freelance episode, you're, you're kind of back where you started from. You're still a writer's assistant. You still have to break in as a staff writer to get full-time employment. So, and, and often it's not uncommon for a writer's assistant to get their shot and kind of blow it. It's just not, they don't do a good enough job. It's, it's hard. And so you really wanna be ready you know, the pressure is on. I I get it. So, but that freelance episode is probably not gonna make your career. It's just gonna feel good. It's gonna feel good. And that will help. And that might get you by for, that might be enough to, you know, encourage you to keep at it for a couple more years, but it's not gonna set you up for life. So,Phil Hudson (05:23):So don't celebrate too early.Michael Jamin (05:27):I mean, or don't be crushed too early if you don't get one, in other words.Phil Hudson (05:30):Yeah. Gotcha. Alright, cool. Ivan g Garcia, oh, apologize guys, this is old my eyes. I'm getting old. Michael, my eyes. Mm-Hmm. Ivan Garcia 66 22. What are the basic things any screenwriter should know? I know it's a really broad, but I thought it was a really interesting conversation to have.Michael Jamin (05:51):Yeah, well, okay, first of all, do you know what a story is? And most people do not know how, what a, a story is, right? I mean, honestly,Phil Hudson (05:59):Let me interject there too. I had a class in college at a screen at a film school where I was taking a screenwriting class and the teacher asked us to define what a story is. And I knew, cuz you had given me your answer. And I sat around and looked at the room and no one, no one raised their hand. And a couple people said something and the teacher kind of brushed it off. And then I gave your answer to them and he just like had this aha moment. And he literally went and changed his slides to include your answer to this.Michael Jamin (06:26):Yeah. So the teacher that important, no,Phil Hudson (06:27):And you can get that free at michaeljamin.com/free. That's so the first lesson in Michael's course he gives away for free. Go get it. It is absolutely important.Michael Jamin (06:38):I like how, how are you gonna write a story if you can't define it? You know, and you think you know what a story is or, or it's such a weird question like in your gut, you, I must know what a story is, but honestly, if you can't define it, you might get lucky once or twice, but you're not gonna be do it on a consistent basis. You're just not. Yeah. So there's that and don't Yeah. And most people don't know. And including some screenwriting teachers don't, don't knowPhil Hudson (07:02):That .Michael Jamin (07:02):Yeah. So,Phil Hudson (07:03):Yeah, so story stories of us know and the definition of story. And if I recall from conversations with you from years back, you told me that that's something you often, when you get lost in a story, it's because you're missing one of those elements of story and you have to go putMichael Jamin (07:17):It back in. Absolutely. I I, we were, you know, I talked about this before, but when I was running my partner running Maron first season we did a, it was the first day of shooting and we did a rewrite on a scene and we, and, and then Mark was in the middle of the scene and he's like, what am I doing here? What am I supposed to be playing here? What's going on? And he starts yelling at me because the scene wasn't working. And, and he was right. The scene was not working. And it was because in the rewrite I had dropped or we had dropped one of the elements that we needed required. And he was right. The scene did not work. And so I had to go back and rethink and we, I i, we threw another line that fixed everything.(07:53):But yeah, it's like, it's that important. It like, the actors, without it, the actors are gonna be lost. The audience is gonna be lost. You're gonna be lost, you're gonna struggle when you write, you're gonna be like, what, what am I, why am I getting bored with my own piece? Which is so common that people get bored with their own writing, which is why they lose motivation, which is why they don't you know, they feel like the writing's all over the map, which is why like they do too much rewriting cuz they don't, they still don't know what's good. All this comes, I there's really no screenwriting 1 0 2. It's all screenwriting 1 0 1.Phil Hudson (08:26):No learnMichael Jamin (08:26):1 0 1.Phil Hudson (08:27):All right. So you need to know story.Michael Jamin (08:30):Yeah.Phil Hudson (08:31):Formatting comes to mind. But that can be done software, right? Yeah.Michael Jamin (08:35):Right. The least important thing.Phil Hudson (08:37):But that, that's a place people get so bogged down. And I know this was true for me. I probably spent a year reading books on formatting. They're on the shelf back here behind me of just, here's how you format this, here's how you do this, here's how you do that. What I've found now is that I've absorbed and simulated a lot that just from reading scripts, like right up here, that's printed scripts that have just printed off you, you learn how other writers, you like how they do things. But also you can literally just Google this as you go along. If you get stuck in there. Plenty of things that kind of explain it to you. So don't get too bogged down in formatting, but you have to know formatting cuz it is one of the things people are gonna look at and they'll judge right away whether or not you're a professional.Michael Jamin (09:19):Yeah. It should be. You should, you can learn it. And just to be clear, like sometimes my partner will make it up. Like if we're writing something, a scene that kind of, the the formatting is, is is unusual with like, it, it's a phone call within a phone call or something odd. We go, well, let's just write it like this. As long as it's clear for the reader, it's fine. No one's gonna, you know, and if the ad has a problem with it, okay, fine. We'll change it when the at, like, I don't fine if the ad one or the writer system wants to change it. Okay, fine. This is how we're gonna do it though,Phil Hudson (09:45):. Love it. Love it. Okay. So for, is there anything else that comes to mind? Like, is there anything else that a writer and again, basic thing a screenwriter should know?Michael Jamin (09:54):Well, you know you should know that your first sample, everyone writes a script and they wanna sell it. And I always say, you're not gonna sell it. You should just write it, write it as a sample. It's a calling card to get you work. And so look at it that way, which means you're gonna be, it's a, as a writing sample, you're gonna be judged on the quality of your writing. And so don't get so hung up on, on you you know, I wanna sell it, I wanna make a million dollars. It's, that's like starting at the, the mountain at the top. You gotta start the mountain at the bottom and work your way up.Phil Hudson (10:23):Yeah. Got it. Anything else?Michael Jamin (10:26):I don't think so. Okay.Phil Hudson (10:27):Maybe I, I will say that you cover a lot of this stuff in the course, so again, if anyone's interested in that michael jam.com/courseMichael Jamin (10:34):Go get how fi how to actually sit down and do it. Yeah. That's what we cover.Phil Hudson (10:37):Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did hear someone, because structure is the other thing that comes to mind and you cover that extensively in the course as well as the writing process professionals use. I will say, I did hear someone recently say that what you teach can be found in other places, but the way you teach it and the way you label specific things is just kind of a duh. Like, oh duh. Yeah. It's like, you can't misunderstand that. And I think that's beautiful from like a just getting information across perspective and a teaching perspective. I mean, that's why some of the early, early testimonial you got from the course where that you're not only a great writer but a great teacher. I think it's because it's, it's a no-brainer way You explain these things that are very convoluted and confusing.Michael Jamin (11:20):Lot of times, writer, screenwriting teachers, I think make it harder than it needs to be is like, no, just make it simple. It'sPhil Hudson (11:27):Try to make it smart. I got like 20 screenwriting books on the shelf back there, and it wasn't until I took your course and again, we, you'd been mentoring me for a while, but it wasn't until I took your course that I was like, yeah, that's just a no duh. Like I should just be doing it that way. I should think about it and conceptualize it that way cuz it's not, you know, inciting incidents and it's not convoluted, deeper mythical structure, which I totally am not knocking. I'm just saying it's a, an easy way to think about that process. Yeah. So make it easy. I'm beating the dead horse. I apologize about that, but I do think it's absolutely worth. It's a good, check it out. Yeah. All right. I has a follow up question. Should I always feel confident and proud of my work? How should I take criticism from someone who I don't think knows best?Michael Jamin (12:09):Well, you should be proud of yourself for sitting down and actually writing a script because most people say they want to do it and they don't do it. So good for you for doing it. How should you take criticism from someone, from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about? Is that what he said?Phil Hudson (12:21):Yeah. Someone who I don't think knows bestMichael Jamin (12:24):, and you don't, I mean, you know and that's a lot of people. You know what? There's valid criticism and there's stuff that, that is not valid. So if someone says if someone says, I don't, I think you should focus more on these characters, or I think the story should be about this, that's not valid criticism. That's someone who's just trying to rewrite your work. If someone that's honestly, and if people tell you that, tell 'em to go, you know, pound sand, because that's not, it's not helpful. What they can tell you is, I didn't understand what you were going for here. I didn't understand what this character, what their relationship was. I didn't understand why the ending was meaningful. That is irrefutable. That comment is because they're just saying, you can't even argue with that. You're saying, they're saying they don't understand it, and you can, you can't argue with that.(13:09):They didn't understand it. So if you wanna make that more clear, you could work on that in your piece. Or if you want to ignore it, it altogether, you could say, well, I don't want you to understand it. I don't know why you'd ever do that. I I think that'd be, I don't, I don't think confusing your audience is ever a good idea, but, but those are the kind of notes that someone can give you that are helpful and irrefutable and you can ha give it to your mom. And if your mom reads your script and, and you know, takes her a month to read it because it wasn't any good, you know, you, you ask her, listen, did you wanna turn the page? Did you wanna find out what happens next? Or did it feel like a homework assignment? And that's, anyone can, anyone can give you that note. Yeah. It felt a little bit like a homework assignment then. You know, your script is not ready. If it feels like a gift and they wanna read what they wanna read your next work, you might be onto something.Phil Hudson (13:58):Yeah. No, I told you, this is when I turned that corner, when I finally got that thing, I opened a beer, my friend said, I opened a beer to read your script. And at the end I realized I hadn't even taken a sip of my beer.Michael Jamin (14:09):That's good.Phil Hudson (14:09):Right? And I was like, that was huge. Like, that was hugely, I mean, never received any type of compliment like that before.Michael Jamin (14:15):Yeah, that's good writing, right?Phil Hudson (14:16):Yep. So, awesome. Moving on, McLean 5 55. I thought this was a really, really smart question. Is plagiarism a problem amongst screenwriters? Which I think is the typical question, but mm-hmm. then he, he or she, how can a writer avoid doing it themselves?Michael Jamin (14:36):Oh, plagiarizing.Phil Hudson (14:38):Try I avoid plagiarizing.Michael Jamin (14:39):Yeah. I don't know how big of a problem. It's, I mean, when you're writing in a writer's room, none of the writers are gonna steal for you. And, and the idea is, is is specific to the characters you have on the show. And so, I mean, no, we, I'm not gonna steal your idea cause we're gonna put it on next week's episode. I mean, you're, you're gonna shoot it. In terms of stealing ideas, often in a writer's room, someone will say, oh, they, I just saw that episode two weeks ago on whatever show. And then usually the writers will go, Ugh, we won't, will kill the idea. So that's not plagiarizing that's coming up with the idea independently and then killing it because you don't want people to think you plagiarized. And often there are similar often there're just similar things in the zeitgeist that come out at the same time. And, but I I, I don't, it's not really an issue that we really concern ourselves with plagiarizing. You know, I, I, at least I don't, I've never talked about plagiarizing.Phil Hudson (15:31):I think there's a level of homage too that's being mm-hmm. , like people are playing homage. So, did you ever watch this show? White Collar?Michael Jamin (15:39):No.Phil Hudson (15:40):White Collar loved this show. And then there's like this big moment at the end of a season where the guy gets in a limo and he takes a drink of a cocktail and he wakes up and he's at this place. And I was like, why have I seen that before? And then a couple months later I pop in mission to Possible three, and that's literally a thing that happens in that. And I was like, oh, okay. That feels a little lazy to me. But there are plenty of other times where people are doing things like workaholics, for example, they will totally base the premise of an episode off of a famous comedy, and you kind of get what's going on there. Like mm-hmm. , they're paying homage to that. Yeah. And it's like, it doesn't, doesn't feel, it doesn't feel icky at all.Michael Jamin (16:18):Yeah. Right.Phil Hudson (16:20):So yeah, it's it's like porn, right? You know it when you see it,Michael Jamin (16:24):You know it when you see it.Phil Hudson (16:26):There you go. Alright. San Sandy, T 63. What aspects of being a professional screenwriter do you wish people gave you a heads up about? And what are the struggles that nobody really talksMichael Jamin (16:38):About? Well, I don't know what, I mean, did someone gimme a heads up about like, I knew it was gonna be hard. I wasn't naive. I knew it was gonna be hard. It's gotten harder as I've, as the industry's changed, and no one who, who's gonna, who could have predicted that, who could have told, given me a heads up that these seasons orders would've gotten shorter. You know, when I broke in, we were doing 22 episodes of season. Now you're, you might be doing 10, and so you get paid per episode. And so it's a little harder. You have to string a, it's harder to string across you string a career together now than it was back then. But who could have told me that there was, you know, the writer strike was 2008, 2007, 2008. And back then we were striking over something called streaming.(17:24):And everyone was like, what's streaming? What's video on demand? What is vod? What does that even mean? No one knew what it was except for the Writer's Guild, and they knew this was something that we needed to get coverage on. And so that's why you have a good kilt. And so that was the strike to make sure that writers would get the same benefits if their show aired on a streaming network as opposed to a traditional network. And by the way, who ca I don't who cares how people are consuming it? It's the same amount of work, it's the same amount of creativity. I don't care if you're putting it with a, you have a my show I implanted in your tooth and you're watching it in your brain. It's the same amount of work for me. So how do I, why would I care if it's streamed on a through the internet or if it comes through on, you know, a satellite dish? Who cares? And so luckily there are smart people at the Guild who, who saw that coming. Yeah.Phil Hudson (18:11):Anything else come to mind? Any other struggles you deal with as a professional writer?Michael Jamin (18:16):Well, I don't know. Do you have something in mind, Phil?Phil Hudson (18:18):Well, it was just that there was a John August written a ton of stuff. He had a blog post years ago talking about how to budget your money from your first sale. And that was one of the things that I was like, that's really smart. I don't think people are talking about you've sold something now what do you do? And he broke it down and he did finances and there's a spreadsheet and you can go check it out johnaugust.com. But that, that has some pretty interesting information about it. So I just wasn't sure if there was anything else like you stumbled upon as a writer later in your career?Michael Jamin (18:48):Well I kind of knew that as a, just growing up, like you, you know, don't live beneath your means. Always, always. And I remember someone when I was first buying a house, I remember I got advice from someone, I won't say who it was, but other at the time, I was like, this is terrible advice. And he was a very successful showrunner and he was like whatever house you can buy, buy more, push yourself. Cuz there's, you know, you're gonna make a lot of money and so push yourself to buy a bigger house so you can, and I'm like, that sounds like a terrible idea. , no, my, my father always told me to live beneath my means and thank God I listened to my dad and not him because you're gonna go through, it's feast your famine. So I'll go months, months without making money and then I'll have a job and I'll make money again and then, but I never know how long the famine's gonna last. I just don't know. No one we, none of us do. Yeah.Phil Hudson (19:33):And you know, there's talking of a recession coming up, so that's mm-hmm. now's the time to be thinking about that stuff as well. I think we very quickly forget how bad things are when things are good and we've been as bad as things have been, we've been pretty good for a while. Yeah. So, you know, we had this conversation cuz I just moved recently in August, I moved to a much bigger house and I just remember laying awake for like weeks saying, how am I gonna afford this? Mm-Hmm. . And I could totally afford it. I would've never even moved if it didn't make sense from a percentage of my income. Cuz I too was taught to live below my means, but I still stressed about it because it's the most amount of money I've ever put into a home, right? Mm-Hmm. , same thing. You gotta, you gotta think about those things and where the next check's gonna come and how you're going to eat and how, you know, you have a family, how you're gonna feed your family.Michael Jamin (20:17):So mm-hmm. . Yeah.Phil Hudson (20:19):All right. Enough about my house. Sorry guys. I know you're here to listen to Michael, not me, but I appreciate you I appreciate you energyMichael Jamin (20:27):Real estate, wos.Phil Hudson (20:28):That's right. Holden underscore levy underscore. When writing a spec script, something that you did not create yourself for a studio, what is the most important thing to include in the script? Asking as I'm applying for an internship where they're asking us to write a spec scene for an existing show. So you want me to rephrase that?Michael Jamin (20:48):Yeah. What did he, yeah,Phil Hudson (20:50):Yeah. So Holden says, Hey, I'm applying for this internship and they're asking me to write a spec script from this spec scene from this episode, this existing show. Is there anything in particular I should be including there? Because it's not something I made I spec,Michael Jamin (21:03):Right? I it's easier to write a spec script than it is an original piece. Far easier, I think. I mean, you have to know how to tell a compelling story. I mean, this is, honestly, this is what we teach in the writing course that we, that we have at my screenwriting course. But is there anything you should put in Yeah, a good story and a good a story with, with high stakes and a compelling B story. And you should be able to have, the characters should be doing things that seem consistent with the characters. You shouldn't be having guest stars that drive the story. You shouldn't be. Ha And all this I teach you shouldn't have guest stars that have more lines than the regular characters. I mean, it should be about the characters in the show. I don't know why. I don't know what kind of internship it it is that requires you to submit aPhil Hudson (21:48):Spec. It's a spec. It's a spec scene. So to keep that, it's literally, theyMichael Jamin (21:51):Just, it'sPhil Hudson (21:52):A scene. It's a scene.Michael Jamin (21:55):Yeah. I, I, I can't, I don't even understand why, why, why they would want, aren't you just gonna be making coffee ? I mean, what are they gonna give you? But that, yeah, I mean, if it's just a scene sa same thing with what I, I just said, but on a smaller scale, you know, make sure the characters are consistent and doing make,Phil Hudson (22:11):Make sure they pop, make sure that there's something, express your voice. There's,Michael Jamin (22:14):There's conflicts. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure you're, your, the tone is right of the show. The consistent with the show. Don't do something totally off balance at the show would never have done, but you're like, woo. You know, oh, this is a horror episode of this show. But they don't do horror episodes on this show. Yeah, but what if they did? No. Do you should be con consistent of what they actually did. Sure. Represented it.Phil Hudson (22:37):Awesome. All right. I apologize. I'm gonna mispronounce this na underscore type life. It could also be Na cuz it's, it's a Jay. You're your're poly. You speak more than one language. You speak three Italian, Spanish English.Michael Jamin (22:51):Yeah, a little bit of English. Conversational English.Phil Hudson (22:53):Nice. Good for you. Mm-Hmm. , do you ever get, get your pronunciation super screwed up when you read words. , N A J oMichael Jamin (23:01):Between Spanish and Italian, orPhil Hudson (23:03):Yeah, anything? So for me, I speak English. Oh yeah. Spanish fluently. But whenever I talk to anyone, you could be Korean. You come up and talk to me. My brain wants to speak Spanish to you. Just out of the box.Michael Jamin (23:12):Oh yeah. I was talking to a comedian Frank Callo, right? Callo is Italian. He's Italian in, but he goes, that's not how he pronounces it, it's Callo. And I'm like, mm, you saying your name though?Phil Hudson (23:22):, you know, ira.Michael Jamin (23:24):Same thing with Mike Burbiglia. You know, I'm like, no, Mike, that's not how you say your last name.Phil Hudson (23:28):The, how do you say his last name?Michael Jamin (23:31):[Inaudible] That's, that's how you'd say an Italian. But that's not how he says it. IPhil Hudson (23:34):Like the handshake. I like the handshake too,Michael Jamin (23:36):While you're, they all talk with the hands.Phil Hudson (23:38):It's beautiful. [inaudible] Digress. Back to the, back to the question a hand. How do I prepare for a general meeting with a large full caps production company with a development exec as a screenwriter?Michael Jamin (23:50):Good question. So a general meeting, they're just, they wanna make sure you're not a, a drooling idiot. I would go in there ha with some knowledge of what they do. So do get on I M D B, do do a Google search of what kind of movies or TV shows they've made in the past. So you can have educated conversations. So you could say, Hey, what I love this project that you made. Everyone likes being told that you like their, you're a fan of their work. So that's easy. A Google search, talk about what they've done, compliment them, and then be prepared to talk about yourself and what you co what kind of projects you wanna do. And it's gonna be very tempting to go in and say, I can do everything. And that's not the truth. Find out, you know, if you're a drama writer, what kind of drama do you do?(24:29):If you're a comedy writer, what kind of comedy do you do? And, and tell them what you wanna do and what you excel at. And that way you're making, you're making their job easier. If you tell 'em exactly what you do, which is I do high-concept thrillers or whatever then when they have a project in mind or a need, they're gonna think of you. If you tell 'em I can do everything, they're not gonna think of you. You, you know, put yourself in a box to make it easy for them to employ you. So tho that's your preparation. And you could talk about, you should also be prepared to talk about what shows you. Like, they're gonna say, Hey, what shows are you watching? So you're gonna say, oh, I watched white Lotus. It's and then be prepared to talk about what you liked about it, you know?Phil Hudson (25:10):Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. Cool. Jeremy M. Rice, how much of show running is budgeting and managing a staff?Michael Jamin (25:18):All of it, but it's not really it is managing a staff. You, you're in charge of those staff, the writing staff. And, you know, most people don't become comedy writers especially to, to become, you know, management like that. We, we become writers because we don't want to go into management. And so suddenly you're the boss of the show and now you have to manage these other writers. And it's kinda like, I don't really know how to, it's a skill that you have to kinda acquire real fast. And so it's about motivating people, keeping people encouraging them so that they can give you their best. I feel it's important not to waste their time. If people feel like they're hostages, they're not gonna give you their best work, they're gonna feel beaten down. I like to empower people cuz that's how you get their best work out of them.(26:00):In terms of budgeting, you know, the budget is set and I don't even look at those numbers when I'm running the show. I'll just say, I'll ask the producer, can we do this? The line producer and the line producer doesn't even always know. Often they'll come back to you, they'll say, I think we can do this if we steal from this episode. So, you know, I think we can shoot an amusement park if we steal at this episode and you make this real, we don't spend a lot of money here. Can you do that? And so, okay. Yeah. I can have fewer sets and fewer actors and fewer everything to make this happen. So it's a lot, it's a conversation. That's why it's very collaborative. And you work closely with the department heads as a showrunner to get hopefully your your what your vision made. But I, I always try to stay on budget. Cuz the last thing you want to do is give the studio a reason to fire you.Phil Hudson (26:45):Sure. this goes back to like one of our early, early episodes. When you're staffing a show, are you considering budgets at all? Are you just saying, these are the people I want to hire. And then you hear back and say, well, we can't or we canMichael Jamin (26:56):No, they tell you they're, they'll come right out and they tell you, okay, you have enough money to hire one showrunner. Usually they'll say this we want you to have a big staff, so we want you to hire 10 staff writers. And then I'll come back and say, I don't want 10 staff writers. I would rather have one really good co-executive producer. And then, and then if there's money left over, we'll hire some staff writers. A lot of voices to me are not good in the room. I'd rather have qualified people who know what you're talking about then, then I don't need a million ideas. I just need someone who can write a really damn good script.Phil Hudson (27:26):Got it. You know, so you'd, you'd rather put the money towards talent and capability overMichael Jamin (27:31):Yeah. I always prefer comedy show, meaning experiencedPhil Hudson (27:35):Writers. I think that's general. That's generally true. I would say from my, what I've seen at least, and I'm,Michael Jamin (27:40):Yeah. But often they want the people, often the people with the purses, they tell you the op they want the opposite because they don't know. And so they're like, no, no, we want you to have a lot of different voices. I don't want a lot of different voices. That's the last thing I want. I want people who can do the job. Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Phil Hudson (28:21):Ivan Garcia 66 22 is back. If I wish to become a professional writer, doesn't mean I should drop everything and just write all day every day.Michael Jamin (28:29):Well, I dunno how you're gonna do that without paying. You gotta pay the bills. But you can certainly drop all your pastimes and become a writer. Like you have to go to work and, you know, and, and, but after work, yeah. What you should be writing, you should be writing every day regardless. And and I I heard a great quote who I think, who was it? I think it was Stephen King said this. I was like, oh, that makes, yeah, that I like the way he said it. You know, when you're inspired, you're right. When you're, when you exhausted and you just don't have it in you in the can, then you should be reading. But writing comes first.Phil Hudson (28:58):I think it was Terrence Winter, and I apologize if I'm miss Mrs. Operating this quote. But he was on a podcast I listened to years ago, and he said that when he moved to LA I believe he was an attorney first, and then he moved to LA mm-hmm. . And when he moved here, and he's the creator of Boardwalk Empire and he worked on the Sopranos, really well-known, talented writer. Writer. But he said he moved here and his friends would be like, Hey, let's go to a Dodgers game. And he'd say, no, I haven't earned it yet. And he would not allow himself to go have fun until he had done the work he had assigned himself to do. Yeah. And that's a level of dedication, discipline and professionalism that I think you have to have to make it. And it obviously works, look at him. But yeah, you gotta pay your bills, you gotta eat, right. Yeah. So for him, it's, you know, it's sacrificing where other people are not willing to sacrifice because heMichael Jamin (29:47):Right. Yeah. How bad do you want it? So you, you can't, you gotta have to make choices.Phil Hudson (29:52):And we talked about this before. It's you know, sacrifice is a, it basically needs to make hauling, right? It's, you're making something sacred so you're turning, you're exchanging something for something else to get something better, which I think is a podcast that's coming up is, yeah. Long-Term focus over short term gratification.Michael Jamin (30:07):I guess that makes sense. Sacrament.Phil Hudson (30:09):Yeah. Alright. grizzly, hanif, gri, grizzly, heif. He, I don't know, I apologize. Grizzly, how do you balance writing multiple scripts?Michael Jamin (30:22):Like, I wonder if they're talking about me or you. IPhil Hudson (30:25):Think it's a que it's a question for you. And, and I think that they might speak to one, right? But how do you, as someone who is writing multiple projects, you know, you've sold two or three projects recently with your writing partner Yeah. And your writing your own books, your your own essays. Yeah. How do you balance that?Michael Jamin (30:43):Well, it depends what we're doing. But I, I, I don't have too many projects at any one time. It's only a couple. So it's not that hard. If we're running a show, then we have a bunch of scripts out and we have to keep 'em all in mind. And you know, and yeah, you look at the outlines, you look at the notes that's, that's the hard part of the job. But in terms of projects, I don't have, I think a lot of people, one, if we're talking about an aspiring writer or an emergency writer, I think they'll often have multiple scripts because they get bored by their own work. And, well, I'll just do this now because I'm stuck here. I'll just do this now. And so the problem with that is they're struggling. They don't know what they're doing and so they're just, they're just putting it off by starting a new project, never finishing anything. And so that's not good that, that's why education can help. Where if you understand story structure, you shouldn't be struggling as much. You, you shouldn't be getting bored by your own workPhil Hudson (31:31):Right? Now, that doesn't mean you're not gonna finish. You get to, to a point when we talked about that and in previous podcast, how do you know when you're done this this project done? You set it aside, you go write something else, you're gonna come back, you're probably gonna rewrite some stuff. It's probably gonna see a bunch of holes, some things you can fix, things you can improve. But that's just because you got better because you wouldn't put in time on another project. So Yeah. But I think that's a great point. Like when you're running a show, you are running a show and you're doing a lot of, a lot of episodes, a lot of storylines going at the same time. Yeah.Michael Jamin (31:59):So, and often I'll say to the writer, what's going on? What's the story about? Again, refresh my memory because I, cause I can't remember, you know, 10 episodes at the same time.Phil Hudson (32:07):Alright. Johnny JK zero one. How does your workday look as a feature writer versus a TV writer?Michael Jamin (32:13):Well, I don't really work much in film. Film. I, we've, my partner, we've sold two. But we've since stayed in television. I, you know, I don't really know. I mean, your future writer, you know, you're working from your house probably more. And it's like, it's not collaborative. You're alone and you, you're dealing with your producer, producer's giving you notes and you're going back and you're, you're banging your head against the wall. But on TV show, it's collaborative, a writing staff. So if you have, if you get stuck on a scene, you, you bring it in front of the staff and you say, Hey, let's talk about this some more.Phil Hudson (32:41):Yeah. Great. Alright. colors by sec. C e k, does it really matter where you go to college or university to study screenwriting? How much of an impact does it make on your career? Are the prestigious schools really what they make themselves out to be?Michael Jamin (32:57):I don't think, no, I don't think so. I think what you can get from, it's important to learn, you know, screenwriting and study it somewhere. But the degree itself is worthless. No one's gonna ask to see your degree. They're gonna wanna know if you can write. And if you, and if that te that school teaches you how to be a good writer, then it's worth something. But the degree itself will not open any doors. No one cares. I've never hired anybody. I've never asked to see their degree. I never wanna see their gpa. It means nothing to me. So the education is worth something, but the degree is worthless, I think. But and also if you go to a school, you may, if it's a prestigious school, your, your fellow students may grow up to be successful directors and, and people that you can work with in the future. So it's good to network with those people because they'll, you know, they'll arising tide raises all boats. But but you can get the, the knowledge without having the degreePhil Hudson (33:53):Yeah. As someone with a degree. I concur.Michael Jamin (33:57):Yeah.Phil Hudson (33:59):Ryan Danowski, how many credits does a writer need to have if they want to become a creator or a showrunner?Michael Jamin (34:06):Yeah. How many credits? It's like it doesn't really work like that. I mean, we were writers for 10 years before someone decided we were ready to be showrunners. And even then we weren't sure if we were ready. It's, it's a big leap. There was talk earlier, like I, I know some people who become showrunners, you know, maybe after four or five. And it's, it's a little scary because there's so much to learn and so much to know. So it's not even about credit. So they, I know everyone wants to be a showrunner. I, I would just don't like, just worry about being him a writer first. It's, it's, it's so freaking hard. There's so much you have to know. And that's why they get paid so much money is because, you know, you gotta know how to do it. I, it's, I I wouldn't just learn how to write first one step at a time.Phil Hudson (34:55):Yeah. I yeah, I think it, the, that question kind of speaks to a lack of understanding of how the process works. And it's not like you apply for that job, right? Right. Like, that's a job that you are given or assigned because you have enough clout and credit and respect for the accomplishments you have. Or you've sold something and you have enough clout credits. Right. And and respect for what you've done. So, because we, I asked that question early on. Go ahead.Michael Jamin (35:27):Well, the first time we were hired as showrunner, it's like, I'm sure that was Michael. Hi Michael Eisner hired us for Glenn Martin. I'm sure he was nervous cuz we had never run a show before. And he had a right to be nervous. We had a lot of experience, but he was like, can you do this? And my partner like, yeah, we could do it Very unconvincingly. So he had a right to be nervous and we were nervous. It's like, it's a big, it's a big deal to give someone that break.Phil Hudson (35:49):Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I asked that question early on too. Like, if I sold a show, am I automatically the showrun? And you're like, Nope. I knew you may not even be an executive producer,Michael Jamin (35:58):Right? Oh, probably not. You'll probably be, yeah. But you'll probably be a low level or mid-level writer. You're not gonna, they're not gonna, it's, it's such a big deal that they're not gonna trust their investment to someone who's has no idea how to do it.Phil Hudson (36:10):Sure, sure. Awesome. That's the end of our professional. We got a couple aspirational and one general, I think we can get these done in a couple minutes here and, and wrap this up. Don't need to split into a third episode on the Ask Me Anything episode of Michael Jam's screenwriting podcast. Yeah. Nate, the Nate Gillen or Gillen, I'm so horrible with these pronunciations. I apologize everybody. As the medium for television seems to shift from networks to streaming platforms, whose staff should I try to join as a PA and eventually a writer to pitch a show to after years of experience in course Netflix, Disney, a studio like fx andMichael Jamin (36:47):I think whoever will hire you, that's Yeah. Is that what youPhil Hudson (36:50):Yeah, that's definitely,Michael Jamin (36:51):There's no wrong answer. Whoever will hire you and those writers will bo if they're on a network show next year, they'll be on a streaming show. Like they'll bounce around. There's, we don't, we don't care, I don't think. Yeah, for the most part we're like, Hey, who's hiring? We'll take the job.Phil Hudson (37:05):Yeah. I think I can speak to this as someone who has been a PA for the last several years in multiple aspects whatever job you can get, like finding a job is the hard part. Like yeah, it is so hard to find APA job where you can get brought on that you can then have to build a reputation. And it's not like you stick with a studio or, or production company. Mean you're typically moving with that crew of people. You're production office coordinator likes you, so as an office pa they hire you on the next show. You're a set pa the first ad likes you or the second ad likes you. The second, second likes you. So they bring you on to the next one. You move with the people, not necessarily the people making the show. There are some circumstances, you know, I've, I've been working with 8 24 for a couple seasons now on Tacoma fd and I did have some conversations with them where they said, Hey, we would like to continue to work with you.(37:57):And so I've built that relationship of trust over several seasons with them. And I could probably go to them and say, Hey, I'm looking for a job and they'd recommend me to stuff, but I also have plenty of other relationships that I could probably just move to the next project or the next project with the groups of people I've worked with. So it's just networking and you've gotta get the job first. So don't, don't don't feel like you're plotting out an entire career based on what job we get as a pa. That's just not gonna happen.Michael Jamin (38:23):Right,Phil Hudson (38:24):Right.Michael Jamin (38:25):Cool. Exactly.Phil Hudson (38:26):We're gonna get into some questions that are very similar here. Right. And so I, I just want to give the, these people, cause I asked the question some, some clout, but they are very similar and I, things you've already answered many times as an aspiring screenwriter, what is one of the best ways to gain exposure? Where is a good outlet to present your work to gain potential opportunity? That's nine. Nine Jack. And then I'm gonna do Kimmy, Naomi, what are the best ways to get your writing out there and known to attract bigger opportunities these days? And she talks about how it used to be blogging. Is it festivals? Is it shorts? Kind of smashing 'em together, right?Michael Jamin (39:03):Yeah. But it's, it's anything. It's like, sure, you can apply it to some of the bigger screenwriting festivals. The big ones, not the little ones. The ones who've heard of are, you know, they might be worth something, you know, Sundance or Nickels orPhil Hudson (39:16):Austin Television.Michael Jamin (39:18):Austin, yeah. Yeah. Those are good ones. But the smaller ones are, you know, they're just money making operations. So that's what you could do that. But also just put your wor anywhere you put your work out there short. Sure. Make a TikTok channel and put your work up there, you know, in three minute. Make a name for yourself learn every time you create something you know, is, is a good experience, you'll learn from it. You know, a lot of people think it's about networking with people like me. And it's not, you don't have to network with people like me. You can network with people like you. And so you could find fellow filmmakers just outta college or people in college or you know, students or whatever, and just start making stuff together. Get a group of actors. Writers may build a community because those people are gonna rise up.(40:05):If they're serious about it, they're gonna rise up. They're gonna have little opportunities. Hey, I just booked an actor's gonna say, I just booked a commercial. Or a writer's gonna say, oh, I just got, I just, you know, a tiny little thing for somebody. I wrote the, and whatever it is, it's gonna look. Whoa. That's interesting. That, and you're going to surround yourself with these people and all these little opportunities. You're gonna learn about their opportunities and maybe they're gonna bring you in on stuff or maybe you're be inspired. Oh, I could, I could write something like that. I can stage a play and you're building your community of people and someone's gonna pop and you're gonna pop. You know, and that's how you rise up. You don't have to start at the top. You don't have to get your hands in Steven Spielberg's lap to make it in Hollywood. You, all you gotta do is get, build yourself a little community and that's whoever you wanna be with. And that's, that's why I encourage people to move to LA because a lot of those people happen to be in la. Right. If you, you people come to LA to make that dream happen, can you do it and stay where you are, I guess. But you're gonna find more people out here trying to do it.Phil Hudson (41:04):Yeah. LA is also a great sift. It's a sifter of people. A lot of people are gonna move here. A lot of people are gonna fall out. There's a lot of attrition. People are gonna leave and they're, they're not gonna make it. You know, I moved here with a bunch of people from film school. Most of them have left the business or have moved back home cuz just didn't, they didn't have what it took or they didn't feel like they could devote the time or just,Michael Jamin (41:27):Or how serious did they take it? Did they make it, did those stu film students, did they ever actually try to makePhil Hudson (41:32):Anything? No, theMichael Jamin (41:33):Answer's no. No. Right. The answer's no.Phil Hudson (41:35):Right. Because it's, it's easier to dream about something. It's zero risk to think it or dream it or say you're doing it. It is a lot of risk personally and financially and professionally to go out and try to do something. But I don't know anyone who's ever knocked someone for trying. I hear a lot of people, it, it's people want to save face with family and friends or relationships they have back at home or wherever it is who said you're never gonna make it. And so that it's easier to say you don't wanna do it. Like I have a friend really tell a writer puts in more effort than anyone I know writing, he writes all the time, but he never finishes anything and he never submits anything. He never sends anything out. He, he's turned down pa jobs. I've tried to give him, he's done all these things because, and this is like super deep. He's afraid of failing his father. Like his father told him he's not gonna make it. And so any tertiary job related to film that is not film counts because there's zero stake in it.Michael Jamin (42:31):Yeah. But I, you know, it's sad, but you have to start like success doesn't look like what you think it looks like. Success doesn't look like a giant check from a studio to make your movie. It looks like some opportunity that's beneath you. It looks like you making a student film shooting and on your iPhone and posting into YouTube and what's the budget? $30. I mean, that's what it look, I mean, there's no reason why you can't do that. You know, you need better sound, maybe more than $30, but you don't need $50,000 to make your movie. No, you could do it on your phone. You need good sound and you need pay people and pizza. That's how you do it.Phil Hudson (43:05):And people will happily do it from pizza. People are starving in LA man, it's expensive. It's actually cheaper right now by the way, to eat out than it is to buy groceries. So just keep that in mind. That's the inflation world. Yeah. All right. Last question here and then one in general is writing and directing the best way to get your name out there.Michael Jamin (43:22):Well, a any way to get like whatever you're doing. What, whatever, like making afil film with your neighbor already. You, you're exposing yourself to more people than just staying in your basement and doing nothing.Phil Hudson (43:34):Yeah. And the short answer, the reason I separated this one, the short answer is what do you want to do? Do that, do that as much as you can. Do it every chance you can put it out there as many times as much as you can no matter what. And embrace the fact that you're gonna suck at it. Like that's new. It's not meant to be easy for you. Suck it up. And there's zero stakes right now. Cause nobody knows who you are. And that's great.Michael Jamin (43:57):You know what though? I, I've told this story before, but like a couple months ago, a a stu I know this girl, girl I went to high school with, her son is now a student at a film school. And he lives in LA and they were ca they needed people to be in her student film. And they asked if I wanted to do it and they're like, I'm not an actor, so I didn't want to do it, but, but if I was an actor, cause they needed a guy my age, if I was an actor, I would've done it. Why? Because those kids, that crew of five people, you know Sure. They're just dumb students at us film school. No, they're going to, someone is gonna rise up and become, make a name for themselves. And so why wouldn't I not want to, you know, get to know that person? And so it may feel like, well, but yeah, but that's an op that's an opportunity for five years or 10 years from now. You know, get into, get built a circle for yourself. There's no reason like, I didn't wanna do it cause I don't wanna be an actor, but there's no reason. If I wanted to, I would've done it.Phil Hudson (44:52):Yeah. speaking of that, and we haven't talked about this much, I just let you know this last week, but I actually have a couple producers who've hired me to write a spec feature that's just in any feature. It's not anything guild related. It's my first paid work. It's amazing that opportunity. Yeah, it's huge. And that opportunity comes from, they needed help producing a sizzle reel in New Mexico in 2015. And I showed up and I devoted all my time for a weekend to them. I spent tons of time, I spent some of my own money taking care of people, getting things done and impressive enough that, that, and with the help of your course and your mentorship, and the time I put into being here in Hollywood and working in mm-hmm. as a piano, these things I finally have writing samples that impress them enough. This is, yeah, you can hit a budget. It's producible and it's good enough writing. Right. They're gonna send it off, you know, so they're gonna take it and they're gonna submit it to production companies to try to get made as an Indy film.Michael Jamin (45:48):And that's fantastic. Right. And that's because you put yourself out there and you didn't, and you know, nothing was beneath you and you didn't think you had to start at the topPhil Hudson (45:58):Because you don't, you can't. Yeah. So you can't, and I apologize, I missed one question here. It's from Hershey Bar, v a r r. How do you know when you're, you're ready to sell your script? Another one, you,Michael Jamin (46:11):When someone offers to, when someone offers you money for it. But it's kind of, I think we kind of hit on it a little bit already. It's like, if you give your script to somebody and people enjoy, they want to turn the page, you might have something. If it's, if it's a not, you know, if you can't get even your best friend to say it's good, then it's not ready. And again, your goal is not to sell it. Your goal is to impress someone with your writing so that you have other opportunities. So don't even think about, it's not about selling your script. Everyone wants to make money. How about you just learn how to become a good someone that people that you, you know, that you're in demand. If you're a good writer, you will be in demand. Learn how to write first and then doors will open. But if it's all, if it's only about lining your pockets, you know, what do you think's gonna happen?Phil Hudson (46:53):Yep. So, all right. That wraps that up for the aspirational section. One question in general, it's from Christopher Rings. Do you have a favorite meta description of screenwriters in media? I think of the, I love Lucy Writer's Room and being the regards, oh, this is a more personal question for you. It's not about your own.Michael Jamin (47:10):Yeah. I, I, yeah. I watched that and I enjoyed that. That's funny. I mean, Aaron Sorkin is a fantastic writer. I was a little surprised when I watched that. And Aaron Sorkin knows what a writer's room is. I mean, you know, he's run writer's rooms. He's been in writer's rooms. I was a little surprised about when I watched that. It was the Char, I don't remember the character but sh she's a female writer on, on Lyla Lucy. And she was given it to Lucille Ball in the, in the movie. She was given it to her. And I'm like, whoa. I've never been on a writing staff where a staff writer talked to the star that way. . Now that's not to say it didn't happen, because maybe it did, you know, may you know, I don't know about the past, but I was surprised when I saw that.(47:49):I was like, whoa. In, in, in general, we don't, we don't talk to actors that way. We don't yeah, we don't yell at them. We, especially the star, we don't call 'em out. Cause they'll fight you. They'll get you fired . So no one wants to get fired, . So I'm not sure if that's a, an accurate, although I totally enjoyed that movie and I, and I watching it and I was like, oh, I wonder if that's how it was. I, you know, I don't know. I wasn't there. So is there an accurate depiction? I thought it's reallyPhil Hudson (48:17):More your favorite. I think the question is favorite, not necessarily accurate. Oh, okay. It could be, could be accurate. It could be both.Michael Jamin (48:23):I always liked on the la and I haven't seen it in 20 years, but on the Larry Sanders show, I always like the way the accurate Jeremy PN was pur portrayed on the la as the writers, because those guys were never happy . They were joke writers and they were never happy. And they always aspired to do more, sell the screenplay or whatever. And I, that felt real to me. Or it felt funny to me. I, and I haven't worked in late night television, so I don't know if it's accurate, but I thought that was hilarious.Phil Hudson (48:49):That's awesome. I really love, was it Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, which I brought it before to mm-hmm. , I think it's Aaron Sorkin as well. And it's like a Saturday Night Live type show behind the scenes really moving, really moving one of the most beautiful Christmas episodes of anything I've ever seen really touching. SoMichael Jamin (49:04):And then there's 30 rock portrayed actor writer, the writing stuff, but not really they quickly ditched that because they're, the gold was not in the writing stuff, isn't it? Watching people write is not interesting. Watching actors become idiots. That's more interesting than watching writers at a table, so.Phil Hudson (49:21):Awesome. Well, that's the end of your ask me anything, Michael. Two, two parter. Done. any other thoughts, questions, anything you want to put out to the, to your audience?Michael Jamin (49:31):Just the normal stuff. We got lots of free resources for people who want to go get it. We got free downloads of sample script.Phil Hudson (49:38):We have, we should, you know, one thing we don't talk about is you have your you have a bunch of free samples that you have available of your writing. I'll pull up the URL here if you want to start talking about the other one. They probably don't have thatMichael Jamin (49:51):Ready. Yeah. That we have that we have a free lesson on, on screenwriting at michaeljamin.com/free. Definitely get that. We have a, our watch list, which is our weekly newsletter with tips. You should be on that michaeljamin.com/watchlist. I post daily on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook at @MichaelJaminWriter. This is all free guys. And then of course, there's some downloads for scripts that I've written. If you wanna, you know, study those or look at the formatting I know it's on our, I know it's available on the website, michaeljamin.com. I know you can. Phil's gonna give you the rightPhil Hudson (50:25):Url. Yeah, I'll get it. And you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna put a link in the show notes here, so just go check that out. Mm-Hmm. . Cuz it's gonna be a, it's gonna take me a second to pull this up. I've done a poor job of making it really accessible, so I will get that fixed today. Yeah, we'll you can always go to michaeljamin.com/ there's a free stuff tab at the top mm-hmm. . And you can just hit that and it'll be in there. So yeah, that's it. Cool.Michael Jamin (50:48):All right everyone, thank you so much, Phil, thank you for join

This week Friend's Actress Maggie Wheeler is on the podcast discussing how she broke in, her career, and advice for aspiring actors.Show NotesMaggie Wheeler on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_WheelerMaggie Wheeler on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923909/Maggie Wheeler's Personal Website: https://maggiewheeler.net/homeMaggie Wheeler on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiewheeler_official/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutogenerated TranscriptMaggie Wheeler (00:00):Yeah. But you know, I'm so blessed because working on friends was just the most incredible creative understanding and agreement that that existed between, you know, from all angles. Yeah. And so the actors had a lot of free reign to, to, to work things out, to suggest things, to offer things. I had come from a show before that where I used to joke that they should cl in the credits. They should call me Clay Pigeon because, you know, a clay pigeon that you throw up and shoot at. Right. Uhhuh . Because every time I would say the slightest thing, I would say, would it be okay if overhear instead of if I said and No, no.Michael Jamin (00:37):You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin.(00:45):Hey everyone, this is Michael Jamin. You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. I got an excellent guest today. Now hang on you. I know her as the mom from the parking lot at the school that our, both our daughters go to because that's who we, we, that's when I first met her. And we used to hang out and talk and smoke cigarettes while the kids were getting ready to come outta class. But you know her probably so many things, but probably maybe most famously as Janice from friends. We're gonna talk all about her amazing career. Maggie Wheeler. Maggie, thank you so much for doing the show. Thank you. A round of applause, Mike. We'll put that in post .Maggie Wheeler (01:24):Thank you so much for inviting me to do your show.Michael Jamin (01:27):Oh, I'm so happy because you, you, I, I wanna hear about screenwriting basically from your end, from the, cuz you're a, a very successful working actor. Let me talk about some of the things you've done. I'm gonna roll through your credits to refresh you. Okay. Because you've been doing it so long. You've forgotten all these things. Remind me, I guess, right? Remind you of Archer, the Adams family. I didn't know you did the Adams family. Shameless Marin. I remember that because we worked together on that. You were Mark's ex-wife, Kung fu Panda. I'm just skipping around. There's so much I can't mention all Hot and Cleveland. Californian. I didn't know that. We'll talk about that. Curb your enthusiasm. Glenn Martin. I remember that one. Cause we worked so much. How much fun? That was fun. Cuz you can do, you're amazing with voices. Don't I'll let you talk Mary Maggie. I'm talking now. Okay. Sorry. I'm going through your credit.Maggie Wheeler (02:14):. I'll be quiet. Forgive me. Speak for speaking. I turn Please continue discussing StopMichael Jamin (02:20):Talk. I'm done talking about your credits here. How I met your mother. What a er. Dr. Doolittle. Three. I didn't know that. And obviously friends. You did a ton of those. Fat actress. Everyone loves Raymond. Listen to this. Credits. Csi, will and Grace. This is crazy guys. The parent Trap where you were the mom on that one. You Ellen? X-Files Dookie Hauser Seinfeld. Dreman. Which I love Dream on. I didn't know you did that. I mean, you have the to Okay, now you can say something.Maggie Wheeler (02:49):. Okay. I did not play the mother in the parent trap.Michael Jamin (02:51):Who were, were you Lindsay Lohan?Maggie Wheeler (02:53):I was Lindsay Lohan. Correct. . I I'm very versatile. No, I played the camp counselor Marvin Junior. Oh. Who gets covered into chocolate and feathers. AndMichael Jamin (03:03):Tell me about what everyone wants to talk about for probably first your, like the most of the famous the Janice. Tell me like when you auditioned for that. Yeah. Did, did you know that was gonna be a recurring go recurring role?Maggie Wheeler (03:14):No, it was a one shot deal. It was one episode, single episode. And and this, yeah, it said Fast talking New Yorker and I just thought I know her. She's she's in me all the way. So I just went and I did what I thought I should do.Michael Jamin (03:28):. See, that's the, that's the thing. Cause I'm gonna tell you this from a perspective of the writer. Even though I didn't write, have friends, this is what I imagine what happened, you, the audition, if if they had known it was gonna be a recurring part, they would've gone out to a big a-list celebrity, right? Correct. And so you came in, you auditioned for it, you were at the table read, which is the first day of rehearsal. And it's not uncommon for the regular guests, for the regular stars to not phoning in, but to save it a little at the rehears at the first day of the table. Cuz they don't want to bring it. But I'm certain you brought it 110% and this is what happened. And I wasn't there, but I've worked on another show. So this is what happened. The writers after the table read, they go back to the room and they talk about the, the story, but they also talk about the guest cast because I wanna make sure the, do we need to fire this person? Do we need to replace this person? And I'm sure they came back. Oh, she killed it. She killed it. And then I'm certain after the tape, after the show night, they'd like, okay, we're bringing her back.Maggie Wheeler (04:26):Because amazing. I mean, you know, I wasn't behind the scenes, so I can't say how the magic happened, but I, I'd love to think that that's what happened.Michael Jamin (04:33):I'm certain that's how what, because, and, and this is another thing, it's very rare to find from my, from where I sit an actor who really can do comedy that well. And so, and you killed it so much that they brought you back. I'm sure, like I said, I'm sure they didn't think it was a reg a recurring. They, they wrote No, they go get her back. Let's think of how we can bring her back.Maggie Wheeler (04:55):19. No, I think I, yeah. Nine, however many times all throughout the rest of the show. But, you know, I remember one of the writers telling me somewhere along the line, maybe after the fact, he said, you know, we used to sit there on those late nights when we couldn't break a script and something just wasn't working. And by two in the morning we'd be sitting there kind of, you know, tearing our hair out. And somebody would just say, what about Jan? Bring me back Janice . And that's how I kept coming back and coming back. You know it, which was amazing.Michael Jamin (05:20):What about Janice? That's perfect. That's per, yeah. And so when you, so when you audition for it, like how do you approach a script? I guess I wanna know also from the comedy point of view, how do you, like what do you, what's the first thing you do when you read the part?Maggie Wheeler (05:33):I think I hear life in a and in through my acting work and, and in my life as well. I think I hear a little bit through a musical lens. Like the music of language, the rhythm of the character. That's what I, you know what I find? That's how I find the person that I'm playing.Michael Jamin (05:47):The musicality. Cuz you're also a sa I know you're big on music. We'llMaggie Wheeler (05:50):Talk about that. Yeah, I mean, I love music and I love, I love singing. But I, you know, but, but I just feel like also because when, in my earlier days of studying acting, I was very fortunate to work with Anna DRA Smith. And Anna works in this incredible way. If, you know, she, she's, she's a genius and she, I think she won the MacArthur Genius Grant. But she's really so extraordinary and, and her process in all of her one woman shows, which are based on real interviews she kind of gave a little bit of that to me as a student of hers in a show that we did early on before she started doing her own big pieces. And so she said, she sent a bunch of us out. She said, go, I want you to go interview somebody that you know, and then tape it.(06:35):We all had our little cassette recorders. And then she said, and listen to it. And you'll see that. You ask them to tell a story. Some something that happened to them in their life. I asked my sister at the time, and they, and she said, you'll notice that there'll be a moment in the story where the pedal hits the metal. You know, just the, the, all of a sudden the gas is on and their, their cadence will change and their rhythm will change and it will accelerate. And that's the moment I want you to pick. And that's the moment I want you to do. And then from there, we did this process of, you know, writing it down word for word, finding a way for our ourselves to notate those rhythm changes, et cetera. And then really to recreate that character's kind of awakened moment. And I feel like that affected the way that I work a little bit too.Michael Jamin (07:16):But, so you, you even did that, like when you got the sides to audition for, like, let's say Janice, you do that for every role you like? Well,Maggie Wheeler (07:23):I don't know that I do it in such a laborious way. But I just think it's an instinctive way. Like, okay, so here are the lines and here is the thing. And she's saying, you know, the audition scene was, oh, I got you these socks and I don't remember the exact lines, but I got you these socks, you know, they're Winkle socks, you know, you have them, whatever she says, you can wear them however you wanna wear them. Mix and match moose and squirrel, squirrel and moose. And that just, that is just in me that moment. And I think it was that, it was just the, the hook for her. And then the, oh my God, stuff came later and the laugh came once I was on set. That was an organic thing that just developed itMichael Jamin (07:59):. I, you know,Maggie Wheeler (08:00):This moment with Matthew,Michael Jamin (08:02):You really made her an iconic character. You really did. You really Thank you. You know, and it's so, I, you, you know, when, when an actor does that, it's such a relief. A lot of people don't realize. It's like when we're auditioning, it's different now, obviously cuz everything's on tape. But Yeah. When an actor comes into the room and you've done this plenty of times, you audition for producers and the producers are like this. Right? Yeah. . And, and it's not because we're one trying to intimidate you. It's because please save us. I know that. Please just hit it outta the park so we can stop this fucking process and go home.Maggie Wheeler (08:35):I know that. I tell that to young actors. Like when I go to talk to acting students and stuff, I tell them mm-hmm. , they just wanna know You've got it. Yeah. Yeah. Now the problem is, as an actor, it's like there are moments, there are days where you just, you wish you had it bottled and you wish you could just kind of toss it back and walk in the room and like, I've got it. But so many factors can interrupt that, that flow. You know, if you want it to badly, that can be an issue. , you know mm-hmm. , somehow you have to kind of wrangle that desire and desperation, like wrap it up and leave it outside the door because people smell that and feel that mm-hmm. and that feels, doesn't feel safe to the people on the other side of the desk. You know, there just has to be that kind of perfect alchemical embodiment of the character plus like your own ease that allows the mm-hmm. , the, the folks on the other side of the table to go to do that thing that you just illustrated. Which is like, oh, thank you.Michael Jamin (09:30):Yeah, thank you. But how did you get into, like, even before that, cuz you have a lot of ma many credits before friends. Like, how did you get into, how did you get into act? Like how did you start? You wentMaggie Wheeler (09:42):I was a teenager in New York City and I really wanted to act badly. AndMichael Jamin (09:48): and your mother couldn't talk you out of it. my mother,Maggie Wheeler (09:50):She tried , please let me go to professional children's school. No, , please let me go to an acting camp. No. so, you know, I tried everything I could. I, in, in high school, I joined an afterschool musical theater troupe called the Mary Mini Players that did musical theater for kids, original musical theater by children, four children. Oh wow. And we performed in the basement of the Broadway theater or Broadway hotel. I can't remember where the hell we were. And he was crazy. And so that was sort of my first sort of feeling like I was getting somewhere. And then I used to buy the trades Uhhuh, really. And in high school I would cut school and go stand in line behind a bunch of 20 somethings and audition for something. I had no business auditioning for a, I wouldn't have been able to do it. I mean, they were industrials and, you know, silly things like that. Dance auditions things. I was, I mean, I was, I did not belong there, but I was just trying and trying and I was brave and bold and a little stupid. So, you know, that, that was good for me. And then I found a manager when I was in high school andMichael Jamin (10:52):Really in New York?Maggie Wheeler (10:53):In New York, Muriel Carl Talent Management. And and I went in there and I had to audition. I had to read copies, sing a song, do a thing. And you know, it was like, if Chris guest made a movie about, you know, children in, in, you know, performing children, this management company would be, you know, the illustration of what he would, he would create. So anyway, Muriel Carl, I had to audition for her, but I was the only person there without a parent because my mother said, no, f and a, no, I'm not going, I'm not taking you. I don't give it shit . Whatever, whatever you, you're on your own. And so all these mothers were in there with like multiple children and matching outfits, you know, sing from your reel, read from your reel, still louder. Do it louder. So anyway, I started auditioning professionally and got rejected for every single possible thing. Yeah. And then my first professional job was in radio doing voiceover for CBS Records. And I got pulled out of a little, I got, I got booked in a crowd of kids and people just saying, Ooh, the Rubens for some musical group in the, in the seventies. Ooh, the Rubens. Ooh, the Rubens. And they said, the guy, you know, the engineer said, who's the kid with the low? With the low voice? And I was likeMichael Jamin (12:05):Oh,Maggie Wheeler (12:05):, I'm out.Michael Jamin (12:07):AndMaggie Wheeler (12:08):They gave me the spot and then they kept hiring me back. So I started in radio and doing extra jobs. You know, I was in, I was an extra in commercials and a couple of movies and justMichael Jamin (12:18):Seeing. But then how did you make the jump to come to California?Maggie Wheeler (12:21):So I I, when I was 20 something doing, you know, off, off off Broadway, whatever, everything I could do in New York, anything to be busy. Yeah. some including summer stock and a whole bunch of other things in between just to keep myself acting. My sister's ex-boyfriend's current girlfriend was working for Lauren Michaels when the year that he left SNL and decided to do a primetime sketch comedy show called The New Show. And he was auditioning for the new show and she reached out to me and asked if I wanted to audition. And I said, absolutely. The answer is yes. Yeah. And then she said, okay, you need to do six minutes of original standup. And I locked myself in my bedroom and cried because I just thought, I don't even know how to do that. I don't even know what that is.(13:08):I can't do, how do I do it? So I ended up writing six minutes of standup that had a lot of character driven stuff in it. Mm-Hmm. stories from my life, you know just characters from my life. And then I also wrote into it a sketch, a conversation between Julia Child and Jacque Gusto talking about Sea Bass and and him about, you know, the beautiful you know, undiscovered deep waters and her about cooking it. But anyway, I don't know. I did whatever the hell I did. And then I auditioned for that show and then they threw me up there to, to improv with with Brian Doyle Murray and, and Wow. And and all these people from S sctv. It was crazy. And I got the job. So that was my first real significant professional job. Right. And when it got canceled, I moved to Los Angeles because I thought, this is my moment and I have to take it.Michael Jamin (14:00):But was the shelf shot in LA or itMaggie Wheeler (14:02):Was in New York? No, New York. It was in New York. Oh, okay. And so when that was over, I got my license, my little hot license. I also didn't really know what to do with that. And I came out here and and I went to, I, you know, I went about my working life and I lived here for a year and I got one job. I worked on the paper chase.Michael Jamin (14:18):Right.Maggie Wheeler (14:19):And and then I got a call from New York from Ranken Bass, the creator of all the fabulous and a magic Christmas specials we all grew up on. And and they were casting a superhero cartoon. And they had, they found out about me from Lauren. And and I flew myself back to New York to audition for that. And I got it. So that brought me back to the city. And I did animation for several years in the city before. And in the midst of all that, I ended up making an independent film called New Year's Day. And when that was opening, I moved back here.Michael Jamin (14:50):That's another thing you're so good at, and this probably is cuz cuz you're a wonderful singer, but it, it's probably, cause I imagine the two are related cuz you can do all these voices and you, cuz you can hear them. And obviously I think it's comes right, that, that has to tie into your singing, don't you think?Maggie Wheeler (15:04):I guess it's all kind of a, of a piece. You know, I'm not like the a singer's singer. I can't, I don't have some extraordinary range or, or like golden vocal chords. I'm not a Broadway singer. I'm not a, you know, I'm, I I, there I have limitations to my singing voice mm-hmm. . but I do sing and I do direct a large choir here in Los Angeles that I've directed for 17 years called the Golden Bridge Community Choir. And I invite other people to sing. So, you know, it's, it's actually, it's like, it's like my little, my little secret plan, since I'm not a soprano, I just get a lot of other people in the room. I go, okay, you guys sing this part, you do this, you do that. But anyway, I I, I do love music, but I've also always loved mimicry from the time that I was little. And so I love voices. I love character voices. I loveMichael Jamin (15:50):Music. Do you practice that then? Like what do you do?Maggie Wheeler (15:53):I don't know. Do I practice it or do I just go on instinct? I feel like I just go,Michael Jamin (15:57):Because what I because we hired you on Glen Martin to do, I don't remember what voices, but you were like, oh, she could do all thoseMaggie Wheeler (16:03):. You hired me. You asked me, you called me and you said, can you do an Irish accent? Yeah. Because you wanted me to play flame Bang.Michael Jamin (16:10):That's what it was. It was sortMaggie Wheeler (16:11):Of, we also made O'Connor.Michael Jamin (16:12):But that's another thing when you come in for animation, and people should know this, that we, most of the time you get paid to do three voices. Yeah. Because so you have to be able to do more than one voice.Maggie Wheeler (16:22):Correct. And I did. And then when I got there, you said to me I don't remember why this happened, but you needed a song and you didn't have it. So I wrote the song for you, put that on the couch, . And I was like, you need what? You, you said, these are the lyrics, you know, you will, you write a melody. So I did that. And then eventually you hired Chrissy Hein and she came and sang it.Michael Jamin (16:45):Yeah, yeah.Maggie Wheeler (16:47):Yeah. That was veryMichael Jamin (16:48):Cool. Yeah. Was Isn't that funny? And she came to the , she came in like a rockstar. So she came in with a cigarette. And I remember my partner saying, yeah, you're not really supposed to smoke in here. And she's like, yeah, well, , it'sMaggie Wheeler (16:59):Too bad. Nice for you, .Michael Jamin (17:03):But yeah, but that's, we threw so much on your plate and you cause like, whatever, we knew you could do it. So you, you doMaggie Wheeler (17:08):It. That's the most fun. And I actually, I love that character. IMichael Jamin (17:12):Really do. Yeah.Maggie Wheeler (17:13):I, I love voice. I love voiceover work because I can do anything. I can be a baby. I can be Aron, I can be a tree, I can be an owl, I can be, you know, a bald Irish rocker.Michael Jamin (17:24):We got a couple of animated things on the burner. So maybe, hopefully if they go , we'll bring you back in for those. Yeah, I'll tell you more about those later. Okay, good. I'm so excited. You're already excited. I'm excited. Don't get your hopes up. You know how these things fall apart all the time. I do. I do. But but, but, so, but okay, so how else do you, I don't know, what is it like then to be like a working actor or someone like you because you know, people know who, who you are. What's it like on a daily basis?Maggie Wheeler (17:51):Well, I mean, look, what it looks like on paper is not the same as what it, what it is, you know? Mm-Hmm. , I mean, there's so many in, as you know, there are just these long, kind of, these valleys, there are huge valleys with no work. So if you kind of create a little map of my career and you put all the, you know, red pins on the, on the dots of my jobs, boy, I, it looks like I've worked a lot, but there have been obviously incredibly long fallow periods in between.Michael Jamin (18:16):And what do you do during those? What, like what, what's your plan? Well,Maggie Wheeler (18:19):I mean, I'm, I've done so many crazy weird things to sort of, you know, tied myself over in the, in the interim. But I have to say, you know, starting the choir and being a facilitator of, of vocal workshops, which I also do at retreat centers and different places like that has been a tremendous gift because I have this work that's like really soul driven. Yeah. And I'm in the company of other people making something happen in the moment, you know, unlike showbiz where you, you know, you're doing it and you're making it with the family, you're with, you're all in, in it together. And then it's done. And then there's, you know, and then there's this period of time before it airs. And then once it airs you, you're gonna hear about, you might hear about how it, how people respond to it, but it's not as, it's not direct.(19:02):So, so I do something where I'm creative in the moment. I'm giving people something in the moment and there, and it's, and the feedback is coming to me immediately and directly. Right. So I'm really fortunate. I have two, basically two careers. And then of course, I'm a mother. I'm a parent and I've been raising my, my family throughout all those years. I mean, my kids are older now. They're 22 and 27, so they're not home. But I will say, you know, these pandemic years have been some of my busiest years because I, I took the choir online and that mm-hmm. eventually became a more global experience because lots of people joined me from all over the world. And then I also created an event called Together in Song that I ran every Saturday for the first two years where I hired three other, so leader singer songwriter musicians to come on with me.(19:50):And we basically led the world in song every Saturday for an hour. And I had 4,000 people come over the, that period of time. Wow. So I, I think that, you know, wow. Being a creative human being, I, in a way I, you know, I know so many people suffered you know, in terms of their work lives or their feeling of purpose during this past couple of years mm-hmm. and for a lot of creative people, it was just this kind of moment to dive in more deeply and figure out how mm-hmm. , if you're a writer, how you, you know, you can write, if you're a musician, you can make music if you're, you know, what can you do online to make sure you're connecting with other people? So it, you know, necessity was the mother of invention for me, and I was very busy.Michael Jamin (20:32):Well, first of all, if people wanna learn more about that, they can definitely follow you on Instagram, golden Bridge Choir.Maggie Wheeler (20:37):That's, that's a private Instagram, but they can go to Golden bridge choir.com. Okay. and and all the information is there and they can get on my mailing list there. And then anything, any, anytime I'm doing anything that's open to the public, I will, I send out a huge mailing and people can join me online or they can join me in person, which Right. We're not doing so much of yet, but we will be.Michael Jamin (20:57):So here's, here's the thing that, here's the thing about you. You are truly an ar Like of all the people I know, you are an artist and probably your mother's, like your whole family's artists. It's like you really are, like, your husband's very, you know, he's a very successful, very talented Daniel Wheeler. Well, how, how is it installation art? How do you describe? He does a lot of stuff.Maggie Wheeler (21:18):He's a, he's a sculptor and a maker of all things from, you know, from small sculptures to installation work, to funerary objects. He does collaborative urn making for people who are either losing a loved one who are, are, are in the process of dying. Wow. He, he he does so many things. He also does kind of I forget the, I'm not, the word is is lost on me now, but, you know, like he people, people hire him to make objects and, and you know, whether it's furniture or sculpture, all kinds of things, he's very eclectic. Anyway. wheeler made.com for Daniel, if people are interested in going to check that out. ButMichael Jamin (21:56):The reason why I kind of bring it up though, is cuz so many people are intimidated, like, am I really gonna go into the arts? Like, what the hell am I thinking? But yeah, you do. Everyone in your family does. WeMaggie Wheeler (22:07):Do. I mean, it was, this is your life art. It's an Artie family. No one, I mean, you know, I have a daughter who's, who's just now starting as an actress mm-hmm. . And of course, you don't wish that kind of creative life necessarily on your offspring, just as my mother did not wish it for me, and threw herself in front of my body frequently to try to slow me down. And she often, you know, and then when I would cry and be so distraught over the, whatever, the rejections or the lack of opportunity or whatever, she would say, I never told you to do this. Nobody ever told you you had to do this. Who told you you had to do this. But if you have to do it, you do it. And if you don't have to do it, don't. Which is of course, what everyone tells you when you're young. If, if you don't have to do this, don't do it. Because basically you're living the life of a professional gambler, and you don't get to, you don't get the security. Right. But you do get this, I think, sort of incredible accelerated sort of spiritual path of trying to trying to identify what your value is and what your worth is on the planet. Because it exists only in the outside where people are gonna say yes and no to you. You're done for Right. Because there's too many nos.Michael Jamin (23:18):Right.Maggie Wheeler (23:19):I mean, my career looks like a lot of yeses, but there are, it's nothing in comparison to the nos.Michael Jamin (23:23):You're a lot of No.Maggie Wheeler (23:24):Yeah. you know, you have to, it, it just constantly brings you back to that sort of place when you get knocked down and you feel like crap. And no, no, oh, you know, I'm not good enough. They don't love me, it's never gonna happen, blah, blah. All the stuff, all the negativity. And in order to get up and survive, you have got to dig deep and figure out, you know, what your value is in a more immediate way.Michael Jamin (23:48):Does it feel like, though I don't, I think I know the answer to it, but does it feel like a competition to you? Or like what, you know, versus other actors?Maggie Wheeler (23:58):Yeah, I think I certainly felt that way for a very long time, and I still feel that way. Really. You know, it, I mean, I think so. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'd auditioned for something recently. I think, you know, my auditioned life is very, very scarce at the, at the moment. But every once in a while there's a little flurry and there, there was a flurry some months back mm-hmm. where there were like four auditions in a row, and they were all good. I was interested in all of them. They were all very different. It gave me an opportunity to stretch myself a little bit. And I was, I was inspired. And there was one audition that I did, and, and I, I knew it was good, you know? Right. I, I, I knew that I, I knocked it out of the park, but I also knew they weren't gonna give it to me because I knew that there was an alister that they, that would get the job. And I said at the time, to my loved, my loved ones, I said to Daniel, you know, I'm not gonna get this. They're gonna give it to so-and-so. And they did.Michael Jamin (24:51):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you, and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.(25:16):Yeah. And that's heartbreaking. And it's, it's outta your control. Yeah. Yeah. And it's outta your control. And that's sometimes that comes from the network or the, you know, whoever, because it's so strange. They really think they really think that having a bigger star attached, even for a guest role, they think it's gonna bring in eyeballs. It never does. I'm not sure itMaggie Wheeler (25:36):Ever does. And sometimes those, yeah. And I don't wanna say that sometimes those performances aren't as good. I, that's not fair to say, but sometimes they aren't. And also, you know, but, but I'm trying to think of, you said something before about, about how I, how Janice expanded into a, into a, a sea, you know, a a series long role. Yeah. And I, I often kind of refer to myself as a side door actress. You know, I usually get in the side door. I don't usually come through the front door. Right. I don't usually come, you know, for the, for the series lead. But frequently I have managed to slip in that side door in an interesting way. And out of it has come a really wonderful opportunity. So, for instance the parent trapMichael Jamin (26:17):Mm-Hmm.Maggie Wheeler (26:18):, when I got that script, I wanted that movie. And I thought, and here's this camp counselor. And I thought, oh no, they're never gonna give this to me. I'm in no way butch enough for this role, really. I can see the person they're gonna pick in my mind, but I thought, I've got to give them something. I just have to go. I have to go. Because I wanted it. And I thought, I'm just gonna, just gonna do something nobody else will do, because that's what I'm gonna do. So I , I put my hair in these pokey little weird braids, and I put on like, I think I had on overalls and a, and a coach whistle. Like, I dressed up like a, like a dorky sort of you know, camper. And I played, and I auditioned for this role with like a serious side sort of synt s situation where I was like a slightly odd, perhaps I never grew up. And I had this very serious speech impediment sort of thing, and it was a crazy idea. And the, the casting director looked at me, like tilted her head out from behind the camera and said, I think I need to take you to the director,Michael Jamin (27:29):. They didn't know what to do with it. And that's so funny. TheyMaggie Wheeler (27:32):Didn't know. So I came, I went in to meet Nancy Myers and Charles Shire, and I, and I, I was still in my crazy outfit. I was still ready to go. And he leaned over to his wife at the time and he said, does she really talk like that ? And she said, no, it's, she's JaniceMichael Jamin (27:49):. She she, did she talk like JaniceMaggie Wheeler (27:54):? So anyway, I got that role, but they didn't let me play her that way because Right. It was Disney and they didn't want you know, any kids who might have a sibling has to feel upset about it. So I had to lose that. Right. But that's how I got that movieMichael Jamin (28:08):By going on the limb.Maggie Wheeler (28:10):Crazy. Walked out there like a nutball.Michael Jamin (28:12):But tell me about, like, from your, from where, tell me about, from where you sound like, what's the, what's etiquette on set for an ac for an actor or even, or a guest actor? Like, what does it, what does it look like to you?Maggie Wheeler (28:24):What is etiquette on set?Michael Jamin (28:26):Like, what are you supposed to do? How are you supposed to behave?Maggie Wheeler (28:30):Well, that's interesting. I think when I immediately, like, I, I feel like I go through this rolodex of images in my mind from the sets where nobody talked to me, to the sets where I didn't have a proper dressing room to the sets where I was nervous because it was such a well-oiled machine, and I was slipping in to mm-hmm. , you know, and then I thought, and then it, it takes me right to kind of my first series job where I felt really sensitive about the guest ca at cast. And I always invited them into my dressing room and gave them a place to be. Right. so as a result of some, as a result, being so experienced along theMichael Jamin (29:06):Way, because it's hard. It is hard. You're stepping into a job that's already there and it's hard. I mean, it's like you're already insecure and now on, on top of that.Maggie Wheeler (29:16):Yeah. Some people say they really don't like that role of being a guest on a, on a series. I do really like it. I'm, I, I, I've, I don't feel, so maybe it's because I've done it so much that I don't feel so threatened by it. Uhhuh . I mean, the first time I did it was on Seinfeld and and I, and I, there was no, like, when it was lunch, they all scattered, like the lights got turned on in the kitchen and the cockroaches around, like, they were, they were all gone. It turned out they were up in the writer's room having like a catered lunch. But I, I didn't, no one told me anything. And I didn't know anything. It was my first, you know, guest role on a, on a big series like that. And I was really lost. Right. And then I had to ask somebody and they said, oh, you just go down to the commissary. Right. You know, but somebody, and I didn't have a dressing room on that show, soMichael Jamin (30:00):Well, you had, you had some kind of changing room.Maggie Wheeler (30:02):I must have, but I did. It wasn't quite, quite, you know, what I, what what I had later on. So anyway, but it was just one of those odd moments where I, like, there was no one telling me what to do and where to go. And so there's that. And then I don't really know how, what is the etiquette? Like, you just have to be ready to take care of yourself. That's it. Right. You gotta be ready to feed yourself, hydrate yourself, show up when they need you, go back to your room and pull it together in the in between and like Right. Manage your fear or your insecurities or whatever. So when you get back down. But, you know, I, I, it's funny, like, yeah, I don't know. I have found myself in all kinds of circumstances where I have feltMichael Jamin (30:41):Did you prefer more multi-camera, which is shot? People don't know. Shot, shot, live in front of a studio audience or, or single camera?Maggie Wheeler (30:48):I, I like 'em both.Michael Jamin (30:49):But it's a different way of performing, don't you think? Or No. I mean, how does it, how do you approach it, whether it's single or multi?Maggie Wheeler (30:56):Well, yeah. Single camera is something, I mean, multi, multi camera. I've done a lot more of, I would say. And, and and I've, you know, I really enjoy it because it's like live theater and you've got the response of the audience, and it's just that adrenaline rush of everything happening in the moment and changing things in the moment and fixing things in the moment. And it can be, you know, and that's really exciting. And that's how I started. I mean, you know, the new show was my first big show, and it was sketch comedy in front of a live audience. Right. And it was, it was, you know, I earned my stripes in doing that. And then, you know, but then when I did Californian Cation, I, I absolutely loved every moment. It's a lot long, you know, your schedule's a lot more unpredictable. You're there four in the morning, or you're leaving at four in the morning, or whatever it is. Yeah. And you basically have to hang your life up on a hook and say, I'll, it's hard. See you when it's done.Michael Jamin (31:44):Yeah. And how do, how, what about working with directors who are aren't, who really can't know, don't know how to talk to actors, , what's that like for you? ?Maggie Wheeler (31:53):Usually I get fired when that happens. , that has happened. I've gotten mean fired a few times. Well, I've been fired from a few jobs in my life.Michael Jamin (32:02):Because they couldn't, they didn't know how to talk to you. And what do you mean they couldn't get the performance outta you or what?Maggie Wheeler (32:07):I mean, each one, each circumstance is different. But in the, the most recent one was a situation where I was hired. I was hired without auditioning. And I was told before I was hired that they were concerned. They wanted to offer me the job, that they were concerned about hiring me. Mm-Hmm. , because they, the character was similar to Janice. Right. And I said, oh, well, I mean, you know, I can play any number of women from any number of burrows and I can give them all that flavor, but of course I'm not gonna play Janice. That's not gonna happen. I mean Right. You wouldn't want me to do that. Right, right. So I arrived, I had been on the East coast on vacation with my family, and I arrived back and it was end of August. I went straight to the job. Oh no. I got the script . And the first, the first line for my character was oh, dot, dot dot, my dot, dot.dot.Michael Jamin (32:58):That's not good.Maggie Wheeler (32:59):And I thought they do that. They can't really want that. So Yeah. I,Michael Jamin (33:03):They can't, they can'tMaggie Wheeler (33:04):Do that. I don't know if you, you had the distinct pleasure of watching the television show, mob Wives, but I was a bit of a fan of Mob Wives. Fantastic reality show. And and there's a, a woman on that show, her name is Tria Zo, and she is like, you know, mob adjacent, and I love her. So I decided I'll play Dita Zo. That's what I'll do. That's what they'll get. Mm-Hmm. . So I went in and I, we had the table read and all the people were there, and there was a strange vibe on the set. And then we went into rehearsal. Then it came to network run through day, which is Wednesday. And we did the run through. And this director who I don't wanna say too much about him, but I will say he's very, he was very tall and and yeah, he, he was a comp complicated character. And he came over and he looked down at me from his, like perch of six four. And he said, they're not happy.Michael Jamin (34:03):Right.Maggie Wheeler (34:04):And I said, what? And he goes, they're not happy. And I said, why? And he said, because, you know, you're not giving them what they want.Michael Jamin (34:12):JustMaggie Wheeler (34:12):Janice. And I said, what, what do they want? And he said, you know, and I said, I, I'm sorry, I don't. And he said, well, they want Janice.Michael Jamin (34:22):Oh God.Maggie Wheeler (34:22):And I said, well, they can't have her.Michael Jamin (34:24):Yeah.Maggie Wheeler (34:24):You know, I mean, and then I, and then I had to get, like, I had to get a little brave and like crane my neck to look up at him and say, look, I didn't just get off the bus. This character is, you know, created from another show. This is, we're on the Warner Brun lot. Go ask them. Yeah. If James Chan's character's name to Janice and pay me a little bit more. And then you can have what you want, but you canMichael Jamin (34:43):Yeah. Get the right to her.Maggie Wheeler (34:44):Play her, call her this and play me the, anyway, then I went into wardrobe and I said, listen, don't work hard.Michael Jamin (34:50): ,Maggie Wheeler (34:52):I'm gonna be fired today. And they said, no, you can't be fired. They can't do that. They can't ask you to do that. That's not possible. I'm like, can't watch you watch me. And then I, I had to go do a a, a radio, a podcast about voiceover, drove across town, went into these to see these folks to do their podcast. And I said, Hey, you know, I'm probably gonna get a call cuz I'm probably gonna get fired. And anyway, sure enough, they fired me by the end of that day because I wouldn't play that character. AndMichael Jamin (35:18):That's surprising because you're supposed to be as writers, you're not supposed to, you're supposed to know that you don't do that. Like it was, you have to have some shame. .Maggie Wheeler (35:26):It was cuckoo. So, yeah. So things have happened to me. I don't want, I don't wanna badmouth directors cuz I'm still trying to be an actor.Michael Jamin (35:33):. Well that's not that. I'm just saying not all. Like, because directors have two jobs. They have to work the cameras and they also have to get the performance out of the actors. Mm-Hmm. . And sometimes I see some, it's, it's rare to find a director who really could do both Perfect. As amazingly. Well it's hard. Yeah. Because it's two so different skills and sometimes I see a director talking to, it's like, oh no, that's not, that's not gonna work. You're not, that's not gonna get the performance outta of them.Maggie Wheeler (35:57):I think I've been lucky that I've worked on so many great sitcoms and those, most of those directors are just, you know, like they know that genre so well. Yeah. I think I, I have also worked on shows where somebody is a little bit newer and they feel like there's a lot they should be doing in the way of the, of directing. And so they're kind of going overboard, like tweaking a lot of things that might not necessarily need tweaking. And that can be a little frustrating. Yeah. But you know, I'm so blessed because working on friends was just the most incredible creative understanding and agreement that that existed between, you know, from all angles. Yeah. And so the actors had a lot of free reign to, to, to work things out, to suggest things, to offer things. I had come from a show before that where I used to joke that they should cl in the credits, they should call me Clay Pigeon because you know, a clay pigeon that you throw up and shoot at.(36:50):Right. Uhhuh. Because every time I would say the slightest thing, I would say, would it be okay if over here instead of if I said and No. No. Okay. And that's the way it was. There was just actress, shush, do your job, read every word on the page, don't change anything. Right. And sometimes it's like that. Right. But I have to say, I walked onto that friend set and I could breathe and so much great comedy came out of that Yeah. Environment. That slightly freer, more respectful kind of exchange of an environment. I mean Yeah. But I knowMichael Jamin (37:21):There's a reason why it was a great show. I mean that show, it was amazing how they kept on reinventing. I was like, you know. Yeah. It was obviously an amazing show. It's amazing. Wow. But so what, and so what advice then, I guess, I guess I have to ask you, what do you give to, you know, so you have two beauti, we talked about this yesterday. You have two beautiful daughters like I do. And this is, this is a problem because they're because you have beautiful daughters. That's a problem. And it's in and of itself . And then, but, and one is once again into acting and, and it's like, yeah, like we talked to us. You can't, you can't discourage that cuz you know what the word is cuz you got to live that life. Uhhuh . Like, how it's not, that's not fair. . So what do you, what do you tell her? What do you, you knowMaggie Wheeler (38:08):I think, you know, when, when what has saved me over so many years of staying in the business and obviously longevity is often, you know, half the BA or more than half the battle because mm-hmm. , there are these so many long stretches where nothing is happening. So yes. Staying in the game, obviously I, you know, I didn't, I didn't get friends until I, I mean, I'd already been acting for a long time Yeah. When I got that job. So you have to have staying power. And in order to have staying power, from my perspective, you have to have other things in your life that make you, that let you know that you have, you're living a life of purpose. Because if acting and performing is the only thing that defines your purpose, in my opinion, you're in trouble.Michael Jamin (38:59):Yeah.Maggie Wheeler (39:00):You have to. And whether that is this, and I used to tell, you know, again, I've spoken to actors of every sort of age from little to not so little over the years. And I used to say to the little ones, do, if you know how to sew a button on, teach someone else how a sew a button. Mm-Hmm. or if you know how to make a pie, make a pie and give it to somebody. I don't care what it is. Just whatever else you have, whatever other abilities you have in your kit bag that involve being purposeful that don't involve the mother. May I game of, can I take two steps forward? Yes. No. Yeah. You didn't raise your hand. Go back seven steps, you know,Michael Jamin (39:38):Uhuh, it's constantly asking for permission. When I was on, just shoot me, for some reason we did the, the the acting, the auditioning in the same bungalow as the writers. So I'd come to, you know, work, I'd go to my office and then there'd be a long row of actors auditioning. And it was, I, it was always heartbreaking to me. Yeah. It was like, because you'd have whatever, 10 actors for this part and probably three, three could probably do it and only one would get it and the other two would go home thinking, what did I do wrong? Or why can't I get the break? Well, because only one person can get it. That's the problem.Maggie Wheeler (40:12):Yeah. Only I, you know, I, we used to refer to it a lot of us when I, we were back like in my early twenties, and we would go all through all the processes and all the hoops and all the rings of fire. And then you get down to the network and they bring three actors to the network and you know, they've already chosen one. So basically it's just a gladiator sport because people have to die ,Michael Jamin (40:32):There hasMaggie Wheeler (40:33):To be blood on the floor. Yeah. Or, or it didn't happen. So, you know, we always knew that we were there as a human sacrifice, some of us mm-hmm.Michael Jamin (40:40):. Yeah. It's hard. So Yeah. So you had to just find ways have other worth and to feel. Yeah. Yeah. And make your own opportunities,Maggie Wheeler (40:49):I guess make your own opportunities. I mean that's the, I guess the beauty for this new young, younger generation is that there are so many ways of creating now and creating content now mm-hmm. that we didn't have, you know? Right. I mean, we had like, you know, we had, we had movie, we had like home movie cameras back when I was 19, 20, you know mm-hmm. , but that was about, we couldn't edit them. Right. so, so, you know, now there's just so much opportunity to make content or even at the very simplest level, if you're an actor, you know, to get people together and sit around and read something the way we used to do, it's like, let's read and play or, you know, like, let's just do anything so that we feel like we're making, we're making something, you know, even if it's gonna be gone by the time we were done. True. So, I don't know. It is, it is not an easy road, but it's, you know, you know it, you know it, Michael.Michael Jamin (41:37):I I I know it. I still think actors have it a little harder than writers, but, butMaggie Wheeler (41:43):Maybe it's, well we can't do it alone.Michael Jamin (41:45):Yeah. Well that's true. But I, yeah, it's, it's just, it's a hard, difficult, but I have a lot of respect and especially, oh God, , you know so I've, I've worked with actors, I've directed actors and then as you saw when I, cuz you came to my show and I was like, oh, this is so much harder than, than it looks . This is so much harder. I have such new respect after doing it myself, it's very hard.Maggie Wheeler (42:11):Yeah. I think they make, you know, like certainly in some of the directing programs now, they've make the directors take acting classes just the way they make, you know, I don't know, football players, I think you should in ballet. I don't know what it is, but, but yeah, so, so I think it's a good, it's a good move. I mean that my, my daughter Gemma, who just came out of a four year screen acting major mm-hmm. at college, had a chance to do everything from, you know, acting to writing, to directing, to editing to all of it. I, and I think that's what an incredible opportunity mm-hmm. to start out your, your career, having this kind of, you know, fully dimensional experience of what it is to make, to make something.Michael Jamin (42:50):I think, yeah, I say that I think actors need to study writing. I think writers need to study acting and I think directors have to study both, you know? Yeah. You have to know how to converse with both those people. Yeah.Maggie Wheeler (43:01):I think that that sounds like a be a better world. Let's, let's live that than that one.Michael Jamin (43:05):Yeah. . Yeah. That make believe world . Wow. It's just so interesting to hear your side. I don't know, it's just hear your side of the process of what it's like, you know, I don't know. Do, do you feel, I guess we talked about a little bit, but yeah, I mean, how much, when you're on set do, cuz you have to talk to, on, I'm, I'm babbling here, but you have to talk to, you have to please the director. Mm-Hmm. you also have to know, especially if you're guests are, you're really there to serve the main actor, the main character. Yeah. You're really there to serve them. It's their story and not make it about yourself. And and then also if there's a showrunner you, you may, you may begin conflicting notes from the director versus the showrunner and that and the show. You know, how do you, how do you navigate all that?Maggie Wheeler (43:55):I think like, it, it, you know, it's a great improvisation and part of the acting job is the material that you're given and, and the job you're given to do. And the other part of the acting job is the rest of what you just described. Mm-Hmm. . So, you know, it's just, you know you have to, you have to improvise your way through those conversations, through those moments where someone's talking to you and telling you something, you're not sure, you know, what it is that they want to mm-hmm. they're asking you to do mm-hmm. , but you don't wanna seem like somebody who doesn't know what they're asking you to do. It's all acting. I kind of think from the minute you get there till the minute you go, and obviously I, I mean I'm I'm saying that slightly sarcastically because not, it's not true in the best of circumstances.(44:37):You can relax into your sort of auth authentic self or your authentic experience. There might be somebody there who is generous or kind or, or you can laugh with or you can roll your eyes at if you're, if everything's, you know a jumble or confused because there's a director who feels like you're not getting it or anything, anything is possible. You know, I mean, I, I just saw Meryl Streep like a clip of an interview with her and she's saying, oh, well, you know, sometimes they tell me to, to where my mark is and that I should move to the left. And then inevitably I'll go. Right. And sometimes I do that three times, even after the director has told me not to go to the right because Yeah, I'm like that I forget things, you know, so she, I'm not perfect. And so she was really funny, just kind of bu busting the myth of, you know,Michael Jamin (45:33):So she wasn't being willful. She was like, I forgot.Maggie Wheeler (45:35):No, she just forgets. She just does what she, she's in the moment she's acting. She does. And I, and I can do that too. You know, I when you said you were a fan of Dream On and I was too. Of course. Yeah. And working with Brian, Ben, Ben, I mean, that guy never missed a mark. He, he knew I, we made a movie together in New York years and years ago. That's how we first met. And it was called, I, well I think it's called Divine Obsession. I think it was called God's Payroll. And maybe at the end it's called Divine Obsession. I can't remember. But anyway, I think it was, it was my first movie and and Brian was such a technician and he knew his mark and he never missed it. And he, it was incredible. I would watch him and I inevitably, I would step too far or not step far enough or lean over to the right or walk in the wrong direction or what. I mean, all kinds of things. And that guy was like a machine. He knew exactly where he needed to be and he got there every time. And and so working with him on Dream On was also wonderful because he was just, he's so, soMichael Jamin (46:34):Great at what he, it's so hard cuz you have to be in the moment, but you also have to be thinking of the note you just got. Yeah. And you're blocking. And also, but also forget all that cuz you need to be in the moment. Yeah. Oh, oh. And also, what am I supposed toMaggie Wheeler (46:46):Say? And when you're doing a, a sitcom, you know, they, you, you, you run through the thing, you run through the scene, you rehearse the scene, then they send you away, then they bring down the, the stand-ins, then they block the scene and they put all the marks down. Then you come back and the stand-in has like 27 seconds to say to you when you walk in your mark's over there. And when you step across the stage, it's over there. And when you make it to the couch, you're gonna see there's a mark that's right underneath the last, the back left leg of the couch. That's where your left foot go. It all happens so quickly. And I, yeah. When people start talking to me like that, I'm like, Uhhuh, , uhhuh, , uhhuh, . And I just think, I hope I remember what she said.Michael Jamin (47:19):Wow. And then especially on a multi-camera show, if a joke tanks, the writers will run into the set, say this in line instead. And you, but I, and just remember to just memorize. That's right.Maggie Wheeler (47:29):The other one, now there's a new one. Get ready. Go. And some people freak out. You know, I mean, you know this also in the, in the, in the land of animation because you know, we, I, I saw it happen when we were working together on one of those shows where somebody came in not really understanding what Yeah. What that world looks like and how quickly things get thrown at you and how, how fast-paced it is and like, do it again, but 10 pounds heavier, do it again. But now her hair, her face is blue, you know, whatever. She stuff happens quickly.Michael Jamin (47:57):Yeah.Maggie Wheeler (47:58):You know, and, and some people freak out and, and, and seize up.Michael Jamin (48:03):There's not a lot of time. Yeah. That's another thing. Not a lot of rehearsal, least on the shows that I do. It's not a lot of rehearsal . Do you, is it different for you? It's like you're hired Go .Maggie Wheeler (48:14):Go and go. Yeah. But it's, you know, when it's fun, it is the most fun. Absolutely the most fun.Michael Jamin (48:21):Yeah. That's the, that's the thing. When I was doing directing for the other voiceover, if I knew a actor wasn't gonna get it like the did you couldn't do it, I'd say, okay, let's do it three different ways. Three different ways. And then thank you so much. Cuz you just don you know, you don't wanna embarrass them, you don't wanna hurt them and you just know you're gonna recast it later, you know? Yeah. That's hard. That's hard. That doesn't happen a lot, but sometimes it does. Cuz you don't audition. You just bring, bring people in. You bring people,Maggie Wheeler (48:48):They come in and hopefully they can do it. And, and yeah. I don't know. I don't know that, I mean, I find that to be the most fun. I love that world Uhhuh. And when I started out in animation working for Ranken Bass, we would do these table reads because it was a fixed cast, right. There were like six of us, or five of us. I was the only woman. And and we'd have these table reads for each script and they'd give us all a chance to audition live for the new characters. So I was able to audition for male characters. Interesting. And the men were able to audition for female characters and Wow. We could all audition, audition for the cyborgs and the, and the, you know, whatever the little Martian, you know, creatures or whatever, the genderless creatures. I, I don't know. It was, it was a, it was a great opportunity and really one of those things where you're like, okay you know, just, just go. Don't be afraid. Give it a try. You're gonna get it or you're not gonna get it.Michael Jamin (49:40):Yeah. Yeah. How interesting that you're Yeah. So much fun. Yeah. Wow, Maggie, thank you. This is a lovely talk. Well, I wanna make sure, I wanna plug everything you're doing. I, we talked about it, but we can, let's remind everybody, let'sMaggie Wheeler (49:52):See. See I, what's going on? I'm heading to New York in January to do a live event for, at the friends experience at the end of January. And I'm not gonna say too much about that, but I am doing that for for a day on the, I think the 24th of January. ButMichael Jamin (50:07):How could they find excited about that? How do they find it if they want to go see it? How do they find it?Maggie Wheeler (50:10):Oh, I think it's Apri. I think it's press. Oh, I think you can, I think it's press kind of thing. Friends. Friends. But I'm excited to, it's a Friends of Friends event, right. . I, I don't know, maybe it, it, I don't, I'm not sure. I can't say much about it cause I don't know everything yet, but I'm going to do that. I have two sort of indie projects that are, that are, are in the possible works in the next year, which is nice. So if those things come, doMichael Jamin (50:32):You wanna talk about that or No,Maggie Wheeler (50:33):I don't think I can talk about them yet. If, if those, if they come true. Okay, then, then, then we'll see. One of them I will say is working with a really wonderful young director from from France. Her name is Charlotte Gabriel. And she did an incredible short, which I highly recommend friends, fans go and find. It's called the One Who Never Saw Friends. It's, oh wow. I think you can find it now online. It's in French. And it's a brilliant and hilarious short about these people on the day of their wedding when the groom discovers that the bride has never seen the show and, and, and everything falls apart in this crazy and epic way. So I, I hope to be working with her this year and great. So that those things are kind of hovering. And I'm, I have a children's book that's gonna get finished this year that I'll be self-publishing. So yeah, if you guys follow me at goldenbridgechoir.com I'll send out big mailings through my mailing list when those things happen. What else is going on? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's all, it's all up in the air, Michael. That's the beauty of the creative life. That's, who's the hell knows what'sMichael Jamin (51:36):Next. That's what it's like being an artist. Yeah, that's right. Thank you so much. This is this is, I dunno, this is, I I, this is an honor having you here and I thank you so much for coming.Maggie Wheeler (51:45):I am so honored to hang out with you and talk to you. You know, I love you so much and Yeah. I've, you know, I, Michael is one of the people. I mean now I'm talking to the audiences if you're not here, . So you're one of the people who has given me work more than one time in this industry. Yeah. And I am tremendously grateful for those opportunities. Both of them were so much fun and they were such great opportunities for me. And I look back at them with incredible fondness and and I absolutely love the work that you're doing now and just seeing you on stage, reading your stories is so powerful and so emotional and so funny and brave. And I've said it all to you in private, but I'm saying it publicly. Yeah. thanks for having me.Michael Jamin (52:26):Thank you so much. Don't go anywhere cuz we wanna talk to you when we're doing this. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. Yeah. Again, you can follow me on social media @MichaelJaminWriter and what else? Oh yeah, free. Our, my free newsletter is at michaeljamin.com/watchlist. All right, everyone till the next episode. Thank you so much. And yeah, keep writing. Okay.Phil Hudson (52:48):This has been an episode of Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving your review and sharing this podcast with someone who nee

On this episode of No Accounting for Taste the AWEB team were centre stage on the second day of the AccountingWEB Live Expo. Joining them were AWEB Live stalwarts Glenn Martin and Makbul Patel to discuss some of the major themes that had cropped up over the past two days.  Touching on everything fromm the spectre of MTD rumours hanging over the event, to the increasing frustrations around the late payments crisis, our panellists are on hand to give you the lowdown on what accountants were resonating with at our whirlwind event. And of course, it wouldn't be an AWEB Live Expo without a check-in on our panellists' swag hauls!

This special  bonus episode describes a specific event in the history of Glenn L. Martin, the man who made Stanley's plane, the famed Martin Marauder.  Martin, known as "The Flying Dude," began his aviation career building a bi-plane is an empty Methodist church in downtown Santa Ana in 1909.  Glenn Martin and his mother, Minta, visited Salina, Kansas, for an event at Kansas Wesleyan University in 1933. The Salina Journal published a story about Martin's visit titled: "Hometown Boy." Months later, in late May, first-term President Franklin Delano Roosevelt presented Glenn Martin the Robert J. Collier trophy for his design & development of the Martin B-10 Bomber. Contact us: thesilverkingswar@gmail.com Please review "The Silver King's War" on Apple Podcasts Share our hero, The Silver King, with family & friends Thank you for listening to our podcast

This special  bonus episode describes the early history of Glenn L. Martin, the man who made Stanley's plane, the famed B-26 Martin Marauder.  Martin, known as "The Flying Dude," began his aviation career building a bi-plane is an empty former Methodist church in downtown Santa Ana in 1909.  Michael G. Sievers, the writer, producer & creator of "The Silver King's War," discusses Glenn Martin's development as an industrial giant who built the B-26 in Middle River, Maryland. A small part of the war's industrial irony is that our hero, The Silver King, was posted to the Santa Ana Army Air Base in June 1943 during his training to become an Army Air Corps Bombardier-Navigator. Contact us: thesilverkingswar@gmail.com Please review "The Silver King's War" on Apple Podcasts Share our hero, The Silver King, with family & friends Thank you for listening to our podcast

This episode is Part Three of the epilogue for Stanley's letters, "Dearest Ones," that he wrote to his family throughout his Second World War.  Michael G. Sievers, the writer, producer and creator of "The Silver King's War" podcast series discusses American air war history, John Steinbeck's writing ("Bombs Away"), Glenn Martin's B-26 production, and his father's decision to join the Enlisted Reserve Corps to secure a place as an Air Corps cadet in January 1943.

Hello once again everyone I'm your host Ray Shasho and welcome to another edition of Interviewing the Legends. Brought to you by The Publicity Works Agency specializing in authors & musicians Remember We shine only when We make you shine! Call us today at 941-567-6193 for a free PR evaluation! Rebecca Pidgeon was born in Cambridge, MA and raised primarily in Edinburgh, Scotland, gravitating towards music as a child. Mom and Dad introduced her to the likes of James Taylor, while she eventually discovered both Kate Bush and The Sex Pistols on her own. She fronted the band Ruby Blue for three records before relocating to the United States where she launched her solo career. Fan favorite albums followed including The Raven (1994), The New York Girls' Club (1996), The Four Marys (1998), Tough On Crime (2000), and Behind the Velvet Curtain (2008), four songs appearing in the critically acclaimed film Red Belt. The ensuing decade saw her release Slingshot (2011), Blue Dress On (2013), Bad Poetry (2014), and Sudden Exposure to Light (2019). Praising the latter, American Songwriter affirmed, “She's the real deal,” and Glide Magazine noted, “Pidgeon's prolific work as a songwriter and vocalist is akin to the self-immersion she undertakes for her mesmerizing performances on camera.” In addition, she has captivated audiences on-screen as a much sought-after film and television actress. Among dozens of credits, she has appeared in celebrated classics such as The Spanish Prisoner (1997), State and Main (2000), and Heist (2001) opposite the likes of Gene Hackman, William H. Macy, Sarah Jessica Parker, and Philip Seymour Hoffman. Additionally, she has appeared in blockbusters a la Red (2010) and NETFLIX's Bird Box (2018), to name a few. Please welcome Singer, Storyteller, Songwriter, Musician, and Actress Rebecca Pidgeon to Interviewing the Legends …   PURCHASE THE NEW RELEASE 'PARTS OF SPEECH PIECES OF SOUND' BY REBECCA PIDGEON Rebecca Pidgeon — Official Website of Rebecca Pidgeon (rebeccapidgeonmusic.com) Parts of Speech Pieces of Sound is being released on CD, digital download and via streaming platforms on Toy Canteen Records, September 24th. The music, performed by Rebecca on multiple instruments, along with Perdomo (bass, guitar, keys], Andy Studer (strings), Matt Tecu (drums), and Satnam Ramgotra (tablas), shares aesthetic space with the ambitious, elaborate, cinematic work that made Kate Bush an icon, tempered with the hypnotic, atmospheric dream scaping that artists like Weyes Blood and FKA Twigs have drawn from Enya.     FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT REBECCA PIDGEON VISIT www.rebeccapidgeonmusic.com Official website www.instagram.com/rebeccapidgeon/?hl=en Instagram www.facebook.com/rebeccapidgeonmusic Facebook https://twitter.com/rebeccapidgeon?lang=en Twitter https://open.spotify.com/artist/7da523apYjG6oJePP5MZwG Spotify   Discography The Raven (Chesky, 1994) The New York Girls' Club (Chesky, 1996) The Four Marys (Chesky, 1998) Tough on Crime (Fuel 2000, 2005) Behind the Velvet Curtain (Great American Music, 2008) Slingshot (Toy Canteen, 2011) Blue Dress On (Toy Canteen, 2013) Bad Poetry (Toy Canteen, 2014) Sudden Exposure to Light (Toy Canteen, 2019)   With Ruby Blue Glances Askances (Red Flame, 1987) Down From Above (Fontana, 1990) Broken Water (Red Flame 1992) As guest Luciana Souza, Tide (Verve, 2009) Madeleine Peyroux, Bare Bones (Rounder, 2009) Chris Connelly, Decibels from Heart (Cleopatra, 2015) Film Roles Year        Title        Role        Notes 1988       The Dawning         Nancy Gulliver 1991        Uncle Vanya Sonya Homicide       Miss Klein 1997        The Spanish Prisoner Susan Ricci 1999        The Winslow Boy Catherine Winslow 2000       Catastrophe   The Director's Assistant State and Main     Ann 2001       Heist       Fran Moore 2002       Advice and Dissent      Ellen Goldman 2005       Shopgirl Christie Richards Edmond         Wife 2006       Provoked       Miriam Taylor 2007       Jesse Stone: Sea Change     Leeann Lewis 2008       Redbelt Zena Frank How to Be      Mother Cat City Victoria Compton 2009       The Lodger    Dr. Jessica Westmin 2010       Red         Cynthia Wilkes Two Painters         Announcer    Short 2013       Come Back to Sorrento 2014       Two-Bit Waltz       Anita 2016       Allegiant        Sarah 2018       Bird Box         Lydia Television Year        Title        Role        Notes 1987        Bust        Sarah      2 episodes 1988       Campaign      Sally Byfleet 1989       Screen One: She's Been Away    Young Lillian         Episode: "She's Been Away" 1992        The Water Engine        Connie    TV movie 2004–2005   The Shield     Joanna Faulks      3 episodes 2006       In Justice       Charlotte Conti     3 episodes 2006–2009   The Unit        Charlotte Ryan     14 episodes 2007       Jesse Stone: Sea Change     Leeann Lewis        TV movie 2010       Glenn Martin, DDS      Unknown       Episode: "Jackie of All Trades" Voice 2013       Phil Spector   Dr. Fallon      TV movie     Support us!

Michael Jamin is a writer and showrunner who has been writing since 1996. In 1997 Michael was hired to work on NBC's Just Shoot Me as a story editor. He would then serve as co-producer on the show for 36 episodes. From 2001 to 2006 Michael worked on King of the Hill, where he was co-executive producer for 52 episodes. His first stint as an executive producer and showrunner was from 2009 to 2011 on Glenn Martin, DDS, a stop-motion animated series airing on Nick at Nite and starred Kevin Nelson, Judy Greer, and Catherine O'Hara. From 2013 to 2016 Michael served as executive producer and showrunner on IFC's Maron, starring the one and only Marc Maron. Michael's work also includes Beavis and Butthead, Wilfred, Brickleberry, Rules of Engagement, Out of Practice, Lopez, Rhett and Link's Buddy System, and so much more. Currently, Michael is a co-executive producer on Tacoma F.D. where he and his longtime writing partner, Sivert Glarum, have just finished writing season 4. Michael hosts Screenwriters Need to Hear This, a podcast to help aspiring writers, actors, and directors understand the business from the perspective of an experienced television writer like himself. After working as a sitcom writer for the past 26 years, Michael wanted to try something new and grew his social media following by posting daily screenwriting tips on his Instagram and TikTok where he has amassed nearly 250k followers in the past 8 months. He's currently working on his new one-man show, a stage reading of his forthcoming collection of personal essays entitled A Paper Orchestra which opens in Los Angeles this summer. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/industry-standard-w-barry-katz/support

Michael Jamin is a writer and showrunner who has been writing since 1996. In 1997 Michael was hired to work on NBC's Just Shoot Me as a story editor. He would then serve as co-producer on the show for 36 episodes. From 2001 to 2006 Michael worked on King of the Hill, where he was co-executive producer for 52 episodes. His first stint as an executive producer and showrunner was from 2009 to 2011 on Glenn Martin, DDS, a stop-motion animated series airing on Nick at Nite and starred Kevin Nelson, Judy Greer, and Catherine O'Hara. From 2013 to 2016 Michael served as executive producer and showrunner on IFC's Maron, starring the one and only Marc Maron. Michael's work also includes Beavis and Butthead, Wilfred, Brickleberry, Rules of Engagement, Out of Practice, Lopez, Rhett and Link's Buddy System, and so much more. Currently, Michael is a co-executive producer on Tacoma F.D. where he and his longtime writing partner, Sivert Glarum, have just finished writing season 4. Michael hosts Screenwriters Need to Hear This, a podcast to help aspiring writers, actors, and directors understand the business from the perspective of an experienced television writer like himself. After working as a sitcom writer for the past 26 years, Michael wanted to try something new and grew his social media following by posting daily screenwriting tips on his Instagram and TikTok where he has amassed nearly 250k followers in the past 8 months. He's currently working on his new one-man show, a stage reading of his forthcoming collection of personal essays entitled A Paper Orchestra which opens in Los Angeles this summer. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/industry-standard-w-barry-katz/support

They just couldn't let Memorial Day pass by without stopping to reflect... on one of the most deadly nurses to ever grace the New England area. Kristen Gilbert was not a good woman, and she targeted patients in Veteran's Hospital, a real scumbagess. Charlie hated it. There's romance, poison, murder, and a lifetime(s) behind bars in this tale of what happens when a good nurse.. well, she was always a bad nurse... when a bad nurse stays bad. Come for the serial killer in a hospital, stay for the Glenn Martin, DDS reference. Like/subscribe/rate/review/comment/recommend to everyone! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/killerpillowtalk Email KillerPillowTalk@gmail.com for suggestions and more info. Happy Memorial Day! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Glenn Martin is the Managing Director at Ahern Australia / New Zealand and the President of Snorkel Asia.CHECK OUT OUR AWESOME SPONSORS:https://www.boomandbucket.com/https://www.thefleetoffice.com.au/SUPPORT THE PODCAST:https://www.patreon.com/user?u=73526816PODCAST INFO:Podcast website: https://www.therentaljournal.com/podcast-episodesApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-rental-journal-podcast/id1529824111Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1EhZH7P39tgHJpmAyaF1He?si=xDVjELiFTqSX_u8fwbV5Uw&nd=1SOCIAL:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-rental-journalInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/therentaljournalpodcast

When you're looking at hiring and scaling up your Product Team there are so many things to consider and Glenn Martin has seen them all. Glenn and I recently spoke about how to scale up your team and how you, as a Product Leader need to ABH (Always Be Hiring). We spoke about effective ways to do that so it doesn't take up all of your time. Glenn also had a very interesting view for all of those of us who are not hiring at Google, Meta or Amazon. I think Glenn's thinking was a breath of fresh air and it also made me realise just how important this is. Enjoy the podcast. If you'd like to reach out to Glenn or find out more about what he's up to the best place is Linkedin here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennnetworks/ Enjoy the episode and, as always, feel free to let me know what you think, Ross

Michael and Phil discuss what it's like to work with a writing partner, how to choose one, and what to look out for. Dive deep into Michael's background with his partner Sivert Glarum and what they did to make it in Hollywood.Michael's Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeSivert Glarum's IMDB Page - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0321770/Stephen Prestfield's Book - https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Tough-Love/dp/1936891492Warner Bros. Writer's Workshop - https://televisionworkshop.warnerbros.com/writers-workshop/Glenn Martin, DDS on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8hzMh1WQ6t5dwbnNop2fVAThe Complete Idiot's Guide to Screenwriting by Skip Press - https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Screenwriting-3rd/dp/1592577555Ted Elliott & Terry Rossio's Screenwriting Website - http://wordplayer.com/Michael: (00:00)I'm always reminding myself of the basics. Cause it's really, it's funny. I remember when I was on King of the hill, having a conversation with Greg Daniels who later created the American version of The Office, but I said, Greg, there is no Writing 102. It's all Writing 101. And he's like, "Yes! That's it." Writing one. It's all writing because it is, everything is all, it's all the basics.Michael: (00:27)All right, everyone. Hey, welcome back today. We're going to talk about working with a partner and how to find one and had a, had a, why you want one or why you don't want one. And because I've been working with a TV, writing... A partner, I've had a partner for Jesus. We've been together, you know, close to 30 years. I don't want to date myself. It's maybe, oh, maybe almost that many years. And so we always work together. His name is Sivert Glarum and we always work together. That's how a partnership is, but it's tricky, it's a tricky thing, finding a partner. So I thought I'd elaborate on that for anyone who...Phil: (00:57)I think it's an interesting topic, especially for someone like myself where, you know, I've... I definitely see the value of a partner, but I also see a lot of... My experience with having to rely on other people from group projects in school, down to actually trying to lean in and trust that someone will follow through on their end. My experiences have not been great.Michael: (01:20)Yeah. It's a marriage. And like, marriages are not always easy. Not, not, not everyone's meant to get married to other people. So it's really, you know, I think I got lucky, um, in comedy, it's probably more, it's more advantageous to have a writing partner in comedy because when you, when you say something funny, you don't know, it's funny until someone else is laughing. You may think it's funny, but you know, until someone, your partner laughs, then you go, okay, that must be funny. Um, and I'll just talk about how we met because when I talk in comedy, it's, there's so many ways. I guess when we, when we met, we were team... We were teamed up, uh, in comedy that like some people have partners and its common to have a partner. It's common not to have a partner, but when you have a partner, you literally split a salary for the rest of your career.Michael: (02:06)But, but it does make you, it, in theory, it gives you the advantage of getting hired more often, because you're kind of getting two for that. You're literally getting two for the price of one. And especially when you get high up levels, you're then you're running a show. And now, you know, when you are a showrunner that you have so many responsibilities. It really helps to have someone else take some of them off your hand. And if you don't have a partner, you gotta do it all. You know, so that's, but like I said, it is tricky because you have to get along and like you're pointing out, do you, you have to, you know, you have to really get along with this person. You just have to carry your weight.Phil: (02:40)I think that'd be interesting to get, I'm sure we'll get into this. I think it'll be interesting to talk about kind of your division of labor as you're going through the process of how you're writing. Uh, you know, I, I've heard of different processes based on different writing partnerships, whether, you know, it's the, the Thomas Lennon, Robert Ben Garrett process of they just assign scenes. So one person takes odds and one person takes evens and as they send them back, they're continuously rewriting each other. So by the time they're done with draft one, they have 20 rewrites done. Or is it that one of you sits at the typewriter or the, excuse me, not dating myself at all, sit at the computer and like type it out while the other one dictates or does it take turns? That's an interesting...Michael: (03:23)And I've seen partners do it both ways with the way we do. We literally write everything together. So we will sit at the same at the, at the, uh, you know, computer and one will look at the monitor and the other will be at the keyboard and we literally type at the same. So, you know, the one, I tend to be the one who does the typing, uh, mostly because I'm a better typer than S. It is, um, and frustrating to no end when I'm watching him struggle to put a word together. But, uh, but sometimes he'll do it. And I, you know, I I'll loss it and watch. And so, uh, it's nice. It's nice to have someone drive the boat a little bit, but I'll talk about how we, how we met. We were, uh, I was signed by an agent and, uh, my, you know, few years out of college and was a very big deal for me.Michael: (04:09)And she blew a lot of smoke up my and she's like, I signed one baby writer a year and, uh, I make a star out of that writer this year. You're the guy and congratulations. And I was like, wow, I'm on cloud nine. And she's like, in three years, you're going to be running your own show. I was like, oh my God running. I don't even know if I can write a, you know, an episode of TV, but running. And then, you know, when the smoke cleared a couple days later, I was curious about what had happened to the previous baby writer before me. And so I got through there, I guess, through their assistant, I got the name of this guy and I called them up. He was actually two years before me and I called him up and I was like, Hey man, what, what show are you running?Michael: (04:46)Cause you obviously must be incredibly successful. And he's like, dude, I work at a record store. And, uh, so he hadn't gotten staffed at all. And so we decided to team up, we had, there are two reasons to team up. Uh, one, I, I, I knew enough then to know, like I was, it was hard. I knew, I knew enough to know that I didn't know enough and that we traded scripts. I was like, man, this guy is, this guy is a better writer than I was. Even though we were both signed independently and I was hotter than he was in terms of, I was the new flavor of the week for this agent. And rather than compete against each other for the same job we teamed up. And, uh, and that's how we, that's how we became partners.Phil: (05:28)So, so how did you broach that conversation of, um, what do you think here? Is this something that you want to do together? Like how did that conversation?Michael: (05:36)Yeah, I think we were both interested in writing with a partner. He like, he had a partner many years earlier who decided to get out and become a socialist, uh, that how Sivert describes it. And so we were both open to the idea and, you know, we kind of met and we hit it off. We were coming from similar backgrounds. We're both from the east coast. Sivert a couple of years older than me, but, you know, close in age, we both played the trumpet and, you know, grade school, that kind of thing. Right,Phil: (06:02)Right. Mastering it in heaven.Michael: (06:04)Yeah, but a lot of partners are just, they, you know, they tend to be, Hey, we were friends in college and we both want it. I know that happens a lot. And so let's, let's go out to Hollywood together and become writing partners. So that often, that often is the case. Sometimes you see a husband and wife has a writing partner.Phil: (06:20)I've, I've seen that, um, a couple of times, some pretty big names or writing partners in our couples. So, so, okay. So that's, I mean, that's a fascinating topic. I was literally just listening to, I was out on runs for our show yesterday in post-production and I had to just drive all over Hollywood and Burbank multiple times. So I started listening to a Steven Pressfield book. He wrote The War of Art, um, Turning Pro... A bunch of stuff. He he's a screenwriter who did the novel of a Legend of Bagger Vance, and also wrote the film is multiple time bestselling author been in the industry from the advertising background. And he's got this other book that I never read. And it's um, No One Wants to Read Your Shit. Pardon that? Yeah. Interesting. That's the title. And his whole point is you have to understand whether you're in advertising, writing novels, writing screenplays.Phil: (07:07)No one wants to read your shit. And, and so you shouldn't be like surprised when no one gets around to it. And ultimately it has to be that good that they want to read it. But he talks about how he got partnered up with this big name. And ultimately he felt like he wasn't getting a lot of the credit for what he was doing because he was the writer and the other guy was the name. And his agent sat him down. Once he said, you need to understand that right now he is the known deal because he's had hits with his other writing partner. He's had hits with you. He's the common denominator. You're a nobody. So you need to understand your role here. Now, obviously your situation's a little bit different because we were both young baby writers who partnered up, but it sounds like there's even a little bit of that because you were the hot thing for you, right.Michael: (07:52)It was the hot, but he was trading. Cause we traded scripts. I'm like this guy really is a really good writer. I could tell just from reading a script, like he was, he really understood story structure. And, um, he had, he had sold on his own, an episode with his previous partner an episode of the wonder years. So it was like he had, he did have a little more, you know, he had one under the belt and I had none of the under the belt, but the truth is like, and I remember in the beginning there was a struggle between us in terms of, we didn't know how to trust each other. And, and of course I wanted more of my lines in the script and his lines and, you know, back I kind of thing. And then as you get older and more mature, it's really that ego goes out the window.Michael: (08:30)And it's more about whoever pitches the line that will get you home sooner. That's the one you'll do, you know? It's like, I don't really, if it comes out of his mouth, great, that's great. Let's use that one. I don't really care. And I think he feels vice versa. It's like, um, and often, you know, we'll do a rewrite on a script and he'll want to cut a line and like, no, no, no, no, that's the best line of the script. And it's his line, you know? And he's, you know, so I'm fighting for his stuff and vice versa, you know? SoPhil: (08:58)It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So the pride dies as you become a pro is really what I'm hearing.Michael: (09:03)Yeah, I think so. It's also like in the beginning of the novelty of seeing your words on TV, it was like, oh my God, my lines are on TV, millions of people. And then, uh, you know, that gets, it's not that it gets old, but you've become accustomed to it. And then you're really, it's really more about just doing the work and finishing the work as opposed to like your ego, you know?Phil: (09:24)Okay. So you obviously knew he was, he was engaged cause he was obviously working on the stuff, but for people who are considering teaming up, aside from the benefit of, you're more likely to get staffed, you have someone to vet your jokes or your story against to kind of tell you whether or not it's good. How can you tell whether or not someone's serious? Like someone's a good partner.Michael: (09:42)The thing, cause we were both, we were both signed by the agent. So we were both, um, intent on breaking into Hollywood. So, you know, so it wasn't like, it wasn't like a fluke or it wasn't like a Lark, neither one of us. Like it was a Lark and we were both around the same time. And Hollywood, we were both like on a struggling PAs and we would work on the weekends. We were both very committed. So after work and on the weekends, every day we met and we wrote spec scripts over, you know, wrote and wrote and wrote. And so, because he was a couple of years older, he was also a little bit more hungry, a little more desperate. It was like he had to make a, this happened now. And so we both had that same work ethic in terms of like, and I was young, I was a little younger, but I was also like, I want to, I want it now. I don't have any patience. So was like, we have to hit this now. And so it was a sense of franticness and, and uh, urgency. And it wasn't like there was no plan B for either of us. Hmm.Phil: (10:35)So how, how, how long after your partnered, did you end up, uh, selling something?Michael: (10:40)I think, um, I'm trying to remember it. Like it was, we wound up selling an episode of Lewis and Clark that I helped get, because that was my, I, we sold it to my, my, uh, my bosses. I was working as their, uh, assistant at the time. So I got that because, you know, they were my bosses and that might've been a couple of years after we were writing, but then it took another couple of years before we were able to get staffed on our first job, which was Just Shoot Me. And so it took a few years. And in between then we also got into the Warner Bros. Writing Program, which really did nothing for our career, but you know, it was something, so it took a few years of struggling. And I remember like at that age, the years feel like decades, especially when you feel like, you know, um, you know, I should be doing more with my life. So yeah.Phil: (11:26)Yeah. So, so the reason I asked that is because what you're describing is everyday after work and on weekends, you're practicing your craft. So you've talked about in other episodes is a writer writes. That's what they do. If you wrote something a year ago, you have written, but you are not actively writing. And so what I'm hearing you say is, even though you had agents, which the big misconception is you need an agent to break into Hollywood and that's that's what does it for you that didn't help? Nope. And then even then you put in years of effort to make it to your first staff job.Michael: (11:59)Yeah. And the first spec script that we wrote together, it was a friend's I think it was a first one. It made me minimum the first, it was one of the first. And, but we just kept on writing specs. We probably wrote maybe eight or so specs together, maybe more of show like anyway, ironically it was at first, I think it was the first spec, a spec script that we wrote together that wound up getting work for us years later, it was a really good, uh, spec, but like, we just didn't quit. It was like, well, write another one, write another one, you know, let's get better. You know, so, and I'm, I haven't looked at it in years, but I'm sure I'd look at it. Go, Ooh boy, it's not as good as I remember it. You know? Cause you get, you get better as, as you get older.Phil: (12:35)Right. So, so there has to be a committed, uh, commitment to craft and professionalism is ultimately a good vetting benchmark for this. Are these people willing to work as hard as I am?Michael: (12:46)Yeah. And it's not a get rich quick scheme. It's not like, Hey, let's, you know, let's try this on a Lark and let's try, hopefully we'll sell us. It was like, no, no, we both want to become writers, professional writers. We will not going to stop until we get there. We're going to work our asses until we do.Phil: (12:59)Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Okay. All right. So similar goals, hard work, work ethic, all those things. Yeah. Are there any red flags that you can think of, "Hey, this is probably not a partnership that's gonna work out."Michael: (13:13)Yeah. I mean, like I said that the ego part of it, I also think part of our, what made us a good team, especially in the beginning was in the, in a comedy writing room. Usually, you get classified as a joke guy or girl joke guy or a story guy. And if I were to, I was definitely a joke. I and Sivert, it was probably a story guy. And so we had complementary skill sets and now, but years later, um, I've definitely moved towards the, towards the story person as well. It's like, cause the jokes, jokes are fun and it's like, it's like a lot of sizzle and you get a lot of credit and people love the joke guy, but the story person is far more valuable and it's a skill that's way more important to have, uh, than just being funny or jokes. Those are disposable. Really.Phil: (13:57)That's a note that I've seen from industry professionals that I know personally is, um, if you don't understand story structure, you don't know how to lay out a story. It's not helpful.Michael: (14:08)Yeah. And, and I sh no one does when they start out. Nope. Everyone thinks they do. And they don't. I mean, they're very, they're very few people who are born with that innate skill and they rise up to the top very fast. The rest of us have to learn it. And it takes a long, you know, it takes a while to learn that. SoPhil: (14:23)Got it. And to your point, like, even though I've seen this, like you taught me this stuff, you have it in your course. I've probably seen you teach story structure the way you break a story. And in any room, I still catch myself on a first draft thinking, why did I just bulldoze that, uh, that plot point right there? Like why, why did I step over that story point?Michael: (14:41)Yeah. And I make the same mistakes all the time too. Like I'll sometimes all I'll read my work or what, you know, you need the distance, uh, some time to, to look at your working a wait a minute, this is why what's going on here because you get lost in the weeds and you have to go always go back to the basics. I'm always reminding myself of the basics. Cause it's really, it's funny. I remember when I was on King of the Hill, having a conversation with Greg Daniels who later created the American version of The Office and he was my boss on king of the hill. And I impressed him with something that I said, which was odd and it would impress him. But I said, Greg, there is no Writing 102, it's all Writing 101. And he's like, "yes, that's it! Writing 101." It's all writing. Cause it is. And everything's all, it's all the basics. But I think people will, there are people out there who will try to sell you Writing 102, because they can make a buck, but it's all 101 right. But you have to master that part, you know?Phil: (15:33)Yeah. The 102 does not help you because 101 has the mastery. Yeah.Michael: (15:37)It's like advanced screenwriting, advanced screenings, all basics, you know? Okay. Yes. Master the basics.Michael: (15:46)Hi guys. Michael Jamin here. I wanted to take a break from talking and talk just a little bit more. I think a lot of you guys are getting bad advice on the internet. I know this because I'm getting tagged. One guy tagged me with this. He said, I heard from a script reader in the industry. And I was like, wait, what? Hold on, stop. My head blew up. I blacked out. And when I finally came to, I was like, listen, dude, there are no script readers in the industry by definition. These are people on the outside of the industry. They work part-time, they'd give their right arm to be in the industry. And instead they're giving you advice on what to do and you're paying for this. I mean, that just made me nuts, man. These people are unqualified to give my dog advice. And by the way, her script is, is coming along quite nicely.Michael: (16:25)And oh, and I'm not done. Another thing when I work with TV writers who a new one, I'm writing staffs. A lot of these guys flame out after 13 episodes. So they get this big break. They finally get in and then they flame out because they don't know what is expected of them on the job. And that's sad because you know, it's not going to happen again. So to fight all this, to flush all this bad stuff out of your head, I post daily tips on social media. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook @MichaelJaminWriter. If you don't have time, two minutes a day to devote towards improving your craft guys, it's not going to happen. Let's just be honest. So go find, make it happen. All right. Now, back to my previous rant.Phil: (17:07)So prior to COVID, I was doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu here in the valley with a guy named Romelo Barral and he's like a 10 time world champion. He's he's a legend, like UFC fighters, train at his gym. And he's just considered a master. And someone asked him the question what's better. Is it strength or cardio? And he said, cardio, because strength will fail you every time like strength will fade and your cardio can endure. And it's almost like what I'm hearing you say is understanding basics with story structure and storytelling. Those fundamentals are the cardio to everything else. It's the engine that keeps you running.Michael: (17:40)Yeah. And, and like, so few people really want to study that because that's not fun. You know...Phil: (17:46)And that's not sexy. And you know, it, it definitely feels at times it feels contrived or feels formulaic and what I don't think people understand and that I'm slowly learning is that is ingrained in us as a, as a species. It's whether you're talking Joseph Campbell or you're talking, you know, um, other psychological profiles in this stuff, like, uh, Jungian archetypes that storytelling comes from thousands and thousands of years of storytelling. And that's why Homer told his stories and the similar structure. And that's why Shakespeare did. And that's why we do.Michael: (18:21)Yeah. And it's just because it feels right. Something, it just feels right in your bones, but that's not to say it's cliche. Like you can always make cliche choices that you see a mile away. I mean, but you, if you follow the structure, there's plenty of creativity within those, within the points. So it doesn't feel cliche. You know, there's still a lot of choices that you can make and mistakes that you can make along the way. But if you have the structure, it really helps. It's like a house, you know, the houses you can decorate any way you want, but the house needs to have these things to stay up and not fall down.Phil: (18:49)Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. Strong foundation. Right. You have to have it, the war house washes away. Yeah. So, so going back to the comment you made earlier, where you're talking about this division of labor. So we've talked about that when you first started out and we talked about in the writer's room as a Showrunner, as someone who has a show that you're managing, what's the division of labor for you and your partner when you become an Executive Producer.Michael: (19:12)Yeah. So that kind of started our first show that we ran together was called Glenn Martin DDS. And that was a little jem that no one saw and it was Kevin, it was animated. Oh, look at that. He's got a, you got... I gave Phil a toy .Phil: (19:24)I've got your DVD right here.Michael: (19:26)You can go find that. I think it plays on YouTube or make no money. So you can watch, you can watch on YouTube for free. And that was with Kevin Nealon. He did the voice and Catherine O'Hara was amazing. Of course he's hilarious. And Judy Greer that they what a cast we had. And, um, and so on, on once a week, I would have to, we'd have to record the actors and Sivert would stay in the writer's room, running the rewrite or breaking stories for the next episode while I was on the soundstage, directing the actress. I have a, I'm pretty good at that. I'm... I'm a decent, uh, I can hear the voices and I'm, I'm pretty good at directing and expressing myself and trying to get pulling out the best, uh, performances from actors and Sivert is great at breaking story.Michael: (20:05)So it worked out, it worked out really well. Um, yeah, that kind of division of labor. But if, if we were only one of us, then that one, you know, something would have suffered. Someone would have not either directed the actors, the right person, you'd have to delegate to like a number two that you trust. And the fact that Sivert, and I've been working for all these years, like we know like we have the same taste cause we, so we, I can hear his voice. He can hear my voice. We know it's, it's rare that we disagree on, on, on a story point or, um, you know, our take, you know, so it's a lot of trust and a lot of we have the same kind of brain even often. We're, um, I don't remember what we're doing. Oh, we were, we were, um, uh, meeting on another show and, uh, we had, um, we had the same, we both had this favorite episode. We were talking about it later, like, oh yeah, that's the episode I liked best. And he was like, yeah, I liked that one, the best two out of like the six that we saw and we'd liked it for the same reasons.Phil: (21:00)Right. Right. Do you feel like that's innate or is that your taste has grown together over time? Like being partners?Michael: (21:09)Uh, it's grown. We have a similar sensibility over time. Yeah.Phil: (21:13)Got it. Got it. So, so on the subject of working with partners, you know, you talked about people from college, you've talked about, you know, your agent in partnering with people, your agents repping. So you're not competing against each other. Are there any other ways you can think of to come up with and find a good partner if that's what you're looking for? Like sort of like a writer's dating apps.Michael: (21:34)Yeah. I have no idea. I imagine I would have no idea. I know people like in the course that I teach or that offer that, um, people, they reach out, they trade scripts that seems like could be, we have a private Facebook group. I dunno if anybody's teamed up from that. But that seems like a decent way to team up with someone because you're all serious about the craft. And you both have learned the language that I use in describing stories. So it's kind of like you have the same kind of, you already have the same foundation a little bit. I don't, you know?Phil: (22:03)Yeah. And then to your point, I think that that's a very powerful indicator to me of someone's seriousness in, you know, years ago, the first book I ever read on screenwriting was The Complete Idiot's Guide to Screenwriting by Skip Press. And he had a couple of resources in there. One of those resources is WordPlayer.com and that's run by Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio who wrote like Aladdin, Shrek, Pirates of the Caribbean, Small Soldiers, basically every film... wrote on..., they basically every film I grew up with in the nineties and in the early two thousands. And they had a bunch of these articles back from AOL in the forums, right. And one of them was talking about professionalism and they said, you cannot call yourself a professional until you're willing to invest in your craft. And that doesn't mean scouring the internet, looking for free scripts. It means going down to a script shop and buying them or going on Amazon and buying a script, it's finding that.Michael: (22:55)That's something you do really well, by the way. Like you always invest in yourself. Always. Yeah, yeah.Phil: (23:01)Yeah. Well, I took, I took that note very seriously. And so I have, I had purchased many online screenwriting courses. I went to film school. I did all those things. And that's one thing that I appreciate about your course. Is there's, there's almost like a paywall that kind of keeps the riffraff out. And it's not saying that if you don't have the funds, that you're riff-raff what I'm saying is there's a level of seriousness that comes with and making an investment in yourself. Yeah. And all of the conversations I've had, I've given notes on scripts to multiple people in that group. It's, it's super helpful. They reach out to me proactively and ask what they can do for me to read my stuff andMichael: (23:37)A nice, yeah,Phil: (23:38)Yeah, absolutely. And the cool thing is we're also coming at it from the stories, from understanding how real writers break story in the TV, TV writers' room, right. Like they're, they're analyzing say, oh, you missed this point. And I don't understand how this pays off. And, and we're, we're speaking it almost like the same insider language.Michael: (23:57)Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's riding with a partner and, uh, it's probably less important for drama, but for comedy, it could be, I think it's really helpful. And, uh, it, you know, it's something to consider something to, you know, explore perhaps.Phil: (24:10)Yeah. I love it. Thanks so much, Michael. I appreciate the info and the insights and thanks to everybody for listening.Michael: (24:15)Yeah. Thank you. Everyone. Talk, we'll see you on the nextPhil: (24:30)This has been an episode of Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing leaving a review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs to hear today's subject. If you're looking to support yourself, I encourage you to consider investing in Michael's screenwriting course at MichaelJamin.com/course. I've known Michael for over a decade. And in the past seven years, I've begged him to put something together. During the global COVID-19 pandemic. Michael had time. And I have to say, I wish I'd had this course 10 years ago. As someone who has personally invested in most online courses, earned a bachelor's degree, and actively studied screenwriting for over a decade, this course has been more valuable to me than most of the effort I've put in because it focuses on something noone else teaches: story. In his course, Michael pulls back the curtain and shows you exactly what the pros do in a writer's room and that knowledge has made all the difference for me. And I know it will for you too. You can find more information at MichaelJamin.com/course for free daily screenwriting tips. Follow Michael on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @MichaelJaminWriter. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @PhilAHudson. This episode was produced by Phil Hudson and edited by Dallas Crane. Until next time, keep writing.

Everyone is talking about what work will look like when the dust settles. There is fierce debate about mandating covid vaccines for certain jobs. People are calling it the big resignation, but the firms who have listened to their people and have a great culture seem to be doing a good job at retaining their staff. For office based workers, the conversation centres on how many days you're in the office or if you're an official digital nomad. And the way companies go about recruiting staff has quickly evolved. Glenn Martin, Talent Acquisition Project Manager and podcast host of, Never Mind The Job Spec, joined our CEO Lewis Maleh to discuss the major topics people are talking about. Expect insights on: how 2021 has driven innovation in how companies recruit staff, why culture is top of everyone's list and trends to watch for in 2022.

Todd Rundgren has a long and storied history of musical innovation throughout his storied career. In addition to producing a slew of famed records from Meat Loaf, XTC, and The New York Dolls among others, Rundgren is responsible for pioneering the notion of the one-man band via his music, producing and performing every facet of his projects. This has extended to his embrace of new technology, having created several of the first interactive records to have ever existed.In spite of their revolutionary technology, these records were not always well-received. Two in particular from the 1990s, though featuring innovative CD-ROM features to be played on a Windows PC, were largely lambasted by critics as having strayed too far away from Rundgren's signature sound. These records; 1993's No World Order, and 1995's The Individualist are routinely ranked by fans and critics at the bottom of Rundgren's extended discography, and would be his final studio release until 2004.On a new episode of Jukebox Zeroes, Lilz and Patrick are joined by Lilz' own brother Glenn Martin to give a listen to The Individualist, a record the siblings Martin have a strange familiarity and history with. Join them for all manner of discussion regarding Rundgren's over-abundance of ideas, and unfortunate rap sections.#WeAreNormalNow#ShutUp!Local Music Feature: John Powhida International Airport - "Vaguely Like Rock & Roll"

John and Anthony welcome in Glenn Martin and James Haskell of 410 Sports Talk to help preview the clash against the Ravens. The guys also break down the big win over Detroit and have a fun coaching comparison chat in this week's "State Your Case". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are all aware that COVID-19 has sent waves through our economy and has influenced companies to approach work differently from what we are accustomed to. At this point, it's stating the obvious to say that the way we work seems to have drastically changed overnight as a result of this unforeseen pandemic. The pandemic has also altered the way we hire, including how we approach the candidate experience. Glenn Martin, Talent Acquisition Project Manager and podcast host of Never Mind The Job Spec, joined our CEO Lewis Maleh on The Recruitment Show live, to share their learnings. Key takeaways from the show: • How 2020 has driven innovation in hiring and recruiting • Trends to watch for in 2021.

With being in lockdown the past couple of months, companies have had to really think hard about the way they hire. It's great to have Glenn Martin on The Recruitment Show Live this week to talk about: virtual hiring, the candidate experience and how interview processes could look like in the future Expect some key takeaways of what you can implement in to your process.

In our experience over the last couple of decades of working with Accountancy firms, we have an appreciation that every firm, at some point in their history have experienced the frustrating challenges of a lack of people, a lack of time resource, which holds the growth, the future success of their firm back from what they want.Sometimes even that lack of people in time resource can undermine the existing performance of the business too.So what do you do?Well on this podcast discussion with Glenn Martin of Avery Martin up in County Durham, you'll hear Glenn share a couple of insights and more about what he and his team have done in order to make the key decisions around which clients to work with, which clients not to work with so that it tees up his firm for the future success.  The future goals that he's got for him, his team and his clients.Join Glenn and I on this Humanise The Numbers podcast discussion and hear Glenn's valuable insights into how he's making one or two key decisions that help his firm grow and prosper and achieve the things he wants for his firm. I hope you enjoy the podcast

Derek Ciapala welcomes Alex Kozora from Steelers Depot and 410 Sports' Glenn Martin and James Haskell to discuss the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens as part of our Tour Around the League. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is Scene Three of Who Is Della.  Stanley and Frank Ober, Jr., are in Los Angeles to meet with James Sheppard and his team as they plan a future for Glenn Martin's sister, Della. The meeting is in a large conference room in the downtown office of Sheppard Mullin, a prominent legal firm.

This episode is Scene One of Who Is Della.  It's late December 1955,  after the death of Glenn L. Martin, the iconic Middle River, B-26 manufacturer. Our hero, Stanley Silverfield, is meeting with Frank Ober, Jr., who is Glenn Martin's attorney, in the downtown Baltimore office of Ober, Williams and Grimes.  

Glenn Martin was convicted of armed robbery in his early 20's and sentenced to seven years in prison. He has gone on to become a champion of criminal justice reform, with so many notable wins including founding the successful #CLOSErikers campaign. In this episode, we discuss how the things that help you succeed in prison set you up to fail in society, the fines, fees and restitution that returning citizens are saddled with when released and so much more. Glenn is President and Founder of GEMtrainers.com, a social justice consultancy firm that partners with non-profits from across the United States and internationally to assist with fundraising, organizational development and marketing.  For more information on Glenn: Instagram: @glennemartin Twitter: @Glennemartin Website: gemtrainers.com For more information on the Field: Instagram: @the.field.podcast Website: thefieldpodcast.com Support the show on Patreon And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate, review, and subscribe!

Jess Gillam talks to pianist and composer Rosey Chan about the music that they love, including Mahler, Miles Davis and Eurythmics. Today we played: Vivaldi – Orlando finto pazzo, RV 727; ‘Se in ogni guardo’ (Philippe Jaroussky, Ensemble Matheus, Jean-Christophe Spinosi) Mahler - Totenfeier (OAE, Vladimir Jurowski) Miles Davis/Bill Evans - Blue in Green (Miles Davis, Bill Evans, John Coltrane, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb) Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) Francaix - Petit Quartour 1. Gaguenardise (John Harle, Glenn Martin, David Roach, Andrew Findon) Samthing Soweto (feat. Mzansi Youth Choir) – The Danko! Medley Chopin - Nocturne for piano (Op.posth) in C sharp minor [1830] (Vladimir Ashkenazy) Mozart - String quartet No.19 K465 “Dissonance”; 1. Adagio – Allegro (Emerson String Quartet)

What does it mean to be an award-winning accountancy firm? AccountingWEB's editor in chief John Stokdyk quizzes two Accounting Excellence giants to uncover the secret of an award-winning entry. Entries are now open for the 2021 Accounting Excellence Awards. Firms across the country are crafting entries to impress the award judges.  To help firms submit an effective entry, John Stokdyk assembled a group of award-winners and judges to share what they think are the fundemental qualities of a practice that deserves to lift an Accounting Excellence gong.  The panellists include Chris Downing from Sage, whose Accounting Excellence history goes back to the origins of the awards, when he picked up the 2013 Technology Champion of the Year prize. Chris discusses his experience as an entrant with the multi-award winning team at Milstead Langdon and also from his perspective as a judge of the awards.  Also on the panel is Avery Martin's Glenn Martin. The AccountingWEB legend was pipped to the post in last year's Covid Hero award, but his story is one that everyone can learn from. His award entry told the story of how he worked around the clock to support his clients. Martin takes us behind the scenes of how he put together the entry and how reflecting on his past year has helped his firm grow.  And finally, AccountingWEB's editor Richard Hattersley shares some of the insights he's picked up from monitoring the Accounting Excellence trends over the past five years.  Now you've listened to the podcast and picked up some tips, don't forget to enter the Accounting Excellence awards: https://www.accountingexcellence.co.uk/

AccountingWEB legend Glenn Martin joins the No Accounting for Taste team to discuss the easing of lockdown restrictions and to chew over the big headlines from the past week, including IR35, Xero’s latest acquisition and VAT. This month sees the re-opening of significant parts of the indoor economy and outdoor settings on 12 April in England, as the country takes the next step in its exit from lockdown. AccountingWEB member Glenn Martin (AKA Glennzy) returns to the podcast to explain what he’s doing to support his clients in hospitality, non-essential retail and other affected sectors as they’re finally able to re-open their doors. Martin also describes how the pandemic has led to his clients innovation in his client base, with ecommerce adoption leading many to buffer the damage of the lockdown. He also reveals what effect the pandemic has had on his practice. Martin touches on how he’s found the right balance between growth and service. As always, AccountingWEB’s Richard Hattersley and John Stokdyk review the big stories of the past seven days. The headlines shaking up the profession this week include the introduction of IR35 in the private sector, Xero snapping up e-invoicing provider Tickstar, and the government ‘running scared’ from overhauling VAT.

This episode is Scene Three in Marauder Men, the second play in The Silver King's War podcast series. Glenn Martin's men have been acquiring tide-water properties just east of Baltimore for development as an industrial  manufacturing site.  It's late at night as Bunk Tilghman considers an offer for his land, which he believes will be a future hunt & fishing sportsmen's club.

A five-question, multiple-choice pop quiz on Newport Beach history. Here are the questions (no Googling before listening):Which Newport Harbor island was allegedly won in a high-stakes poker game by a Hollywood celebrity? Note: The seller was a hard-betting horse-racing aficionado, which gives some credence to the popular legend.What was the original use of the El Cholo restaurant building in Corona del Mar? If you don't know, this will surprise you.What area of Newport Beach did a mayor in the early 20th Century call “a dump. It was sold by a lot of damn crooks to a lot of damn fools.” Here's a list of five historical sites in Newport Beach. Which one is *not* an official California Historical Landmark. Before Corona del Mar Plaza was built at the corner of East Coast Highway and MacArthur Boulevard, what was planned for that land? Hint: It involved a famed Italian architect, Irvine Company Chairman Donald Bren and a local, national and even international controversy.

TBC über Kendall Jenner's Tequila Projekt, Glenn Martin's erste Kampagne für DIESEL, ein Jahr Hanau sowie Tobi's Einsichten auf Promi-Dating-App Raya. Außerdem exklusiv: Der große TBC Style Check männlicher Spitzenpolitiker aus Deutschland, Österreich und der Welt.

Strength to Strength welcomed Glenn Martin to discuss the story of the twelve spies who were sent into Canaan.When they returned, Joshua and Caleb were ready to face the giants and conquer: “Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to overcome it.”The other ten said: “There we saw the giants… and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight.” What was the root of their “grasshopper syndrome?” too risk-averse? or faithlessness?An interactive question-and-answer period follows.

On the seventeenth episode of All Heart with Paul Cardall, No.1 country music songwriter Tony Martin and Paul Cardall look back at Tony’s remarkable hit-making career. They talk about Tony’s father, Glenn Martin who wrote Charley Pride’s “Is Anybody Going to San Antone” along with Merle Haggard classics “It’s Not Love But It’s Not Bad” and “If We’re Not Back In Love By Monday. Growing up at the feet of stellar songwriters such as Sonny Throckmorton, Mickey Newbury and Hank Cochran, Tony learned what it takes to write a good song. Merle Haggard and other legends would frequent his parents home for picking sessions. Tony would create parodies and become a journalist in Chicago before his father challenged to write something serious. That first song “Baby’s Gotten Good at Goodbye” was cut by George Strait. In addition to songwriting advice, Tony, with his wit and humor, shares business tips for young writers seeking a lasting career in country music. All Heart with Paul Cardall is proudly a part of the American Songwriter Podcast Network. For more information on Paul Cardall, please visit https://paulcardall.com/ or find him on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.

El año 2020 sigue sin dar tregua y ahora nos ha tocado perder a Charley Pride debido a complicaciones relacionadas con el Covid-19. Un artista que creció escuchando a algunos de los grandes maestros como Ernest Tubb, Eddy Arnold, Hank Williams y George Jones. Desarrolló un estilo propio partiendo de ellos e incluyó también a otros de sus favoritos como Sam Cooke, B.B. King o Brook Benton. Y es que Charley Pride siempre entendió que la música americana se construye desde el country, el gospel y el blues. “All I Have to Offer You (Is Me)” es canción de Dallas Frazier y "Doodle" Owens sobre cómo un hombre le cuenta a su novia que no es un hombre rico pero que quiere casarse con ella refleja a la perfección lo que fue el llamado Nashville Sound gracias a la producción de Jack Clement y Chet Atkins. Charley Pride hizo historia con ella al convenirse en 1969 en el primer artista negro que lograba el No.1 de las listas de música country desde que Louis Jordan lo hubiera conseguido en el 44. Es muy posible que la canción más recordada de Charley Pride sea "Is Anybody Goin' To San Antone?", que alcanzó la cima de las listas de country en Abril de 1970. A costa de un malentendido entre la editorial y los compositores -Glenn Martin y Dave Kirby-, el tema había sido grabado y publicado por Bake Turner, jugador del equipo de fútbol americano de los Jets de New York. Pride intento encontrar otros singles para sustituirlo, pero la grabación había quedado tan perfecta como acabamos de escuchar y decidieron editarla.  Nacido en Sledge, en el estado de Mississippi, en 1934, nada fue fácil para él y su nombre estuvo en el centro que muchas polémicas que no buscó. Por ejemplo, dos días después del asesinato de Martin Luther King, el Grand Ole Opry canceló por primera vez en su historia un show -precisamente en el que iba a intervenir Charley Pride- alegando tensiones raciales. Casi siempre tenía que enfrentarse a los prejuicios y es que era negro. Recogió algodón, tuvo que jugar en las Negro leagues de béisbol pero no tuvo ningún problema para servir en el ejército. La calidez de la voz de Charley Pride era perfecta para las emisoras de radio de Onda Media de los 70 y RCA, el sello por el que firmó gracias a Jack D. Johnson, relaciones públicas de la editorial Cedarwood, supo aprovecharlo con creces. Incluso sus envíos promocionales no incluían la habitual biografía y mucho menos fotos. También nació en Mississippi Ben Peters, el compositor de “Kiss An Angel Good Mornin’”, una canción que se convirtió en un emblema de lo acogedor de su fraseo y de su sentido del humor.  El mes pasado, Charley Pride fue galardonado con el Willie Nelson Lifetime Achievement Award y actuó en aquella gala de la CMA junto a Jimmie Allen. Con él y Darius Rucker había grabado por última vez "Why Things Happen", un tema que se publicó un mes y medio después de la muerte de George Floyd, que provocó el movimiento Black Lives Matter. Era la fusión de tres generaciones de músicos negros de la escena de la country music compartiendo un sentimiento de angustia con estrofas como "Intentas no cuestionar a Dios ni a su juicio/Pero, maldita sea, no lo entiendo". Nunca olvidamos a Willie Nelson, y la leyenda viviente del Lone Star Stage vuelve a la actualidad cuando acaban de cumplirse 105 años del nacimiento de Frank Sinatra. El artista tejano tiene prevista la edición de un nuevo álbum dedicado a su figura y su música para finales del próximo mes de febrero del esperado 2021. Será su segundo proyecto con el “viejo de los ojos azules” como protagonista tras la publicación de My Way hace dos años y con el que consiguió un Grammy. Esta vez su título será That’s Life y ha sido grabado fundamentalmente en los Capitol Studios, los mismos que utilizó el legendario artista de Hoboken, en Nueva Jersey, para dar vida a buena parte de sus piezas maestras. Una de las 11 canciones que conformarán ese disco es “Cottage For Sale”, que utiliza la metáfora de una cabaña vacía para contar el final de una relación fallida. Sinatra la incluyó en su LP No One Cares del 59, posiblemente uno de los más oscuros de su discografía, llena de melancolía y soledad.  La semana pasada escuchábamos el homenaje que se rindió a Willie y que ahora se edita en CD y DVD. Uno de sus grandes amigos, Merle Haggard, fue homenajeado con motivo del que hubiera sido su cumpleaños número 80 y era, triste coincidencia, el primer aniversario de su muerte. En el Bridgestone Arena de Nashville estuvieron el propio Willie, Keith Richards, John Mellencamp, Sheryl Crow, Loretta Lynn, Billy Gibbons, Lucinda Williams, Lynyrd Skynyrd, entre otros muchos. Dierks Bentley eligió “If We Make It Through December”, que hace ya 47 años formó parte de Merle Haggard's Christmas Present (Something Old, Something New). La mitad estaba grabada con los Strangers y el resto con Billy Walker And His Orchestra. Extraída como single de aquel trabajo, "If We Make It Through December" ha pasado a formar parte de los clásicos navideños de siempre. El respeto infinito de los Avett Brothers a Merle Haggard se hace patente en su versión de “Mama Tried”, uno de los grandes clásicos del inigualable músico californiano, que junto a Buck Owens representó la más clara alternativa al monopolio de Nashville mediante el llamado Backersfield Sound. "Mama Tried" se incluyó en la banda sonora de la película Killers Three que protagonizaron Broderick Crawford, Robert Wagner, Diana Varsi y el propio Merle Haggard. En aquellas canciones había mucho de folk, pero con una exquisita elaboración y una acusada sección rítmica. Los Strangers, la formación que respaldaba a Haggard, era uno de los grupos de referencia del momento y dejaron su impronta de cara al futuro. Merle Haggard y Sturgill Simpson se hicieron buenos amigos en los últimos años de vida de la leyenda californiana y hablaban mucho por teléfono. La letra de “Hobo Cartoon” la compuso Merle estando ya en el hospital y se la envió con una nota que decía “de un ferroviario a otro”, recordando que él había crecido en un vagón convertido en casa por un padre que trabajaba para el ferrocarril y saltaba de uno a otro tren de carga siendo niño. Sturgill, que trabajó en la Union Pacific, completó la música durante las sesiones de Cuttin Grass y se la enseñó a la viuda Theresa y a su hijo Ben. Por fin, “Hobo Cartoon” se ha convertido en el tema de cierre de este nuevo álbum, el segundo de los que ha publicado en 2020. Sturgill Simpson ha guardado sus canciones más personales para Cuttin' Grass - Vol. 2 (Cowboy Arms Sessions) que ha grabado en el mítico Cowboy Arms Hotel and Recording Spa, el estudio de “Cowboy” Jack Clement en Nashville, que ha sobrevivido a la muerte de su propio mentor y al terrible incendio de hace unos años, junto al productor David Ferguson y los Hillbilly Avengers, el mismo grupo de instrumentistas del primer volumen. El disco se editará en vinilo en abril y a diferencia del anterior, el músico de Kentucky ha incluido dos canciones inéditas. Una de ellas es “Tennessee”, llena de melancolía y grabada por primera vez, aunque se conociera de algunas apariciones con Sunday Valley hace ocho años. En 1988, Guy Clark publicó en el sello Sugar Hill su álbum Old Friends, al que abría y daba título una extraordinaria composición junto a su mujer Susanna y a Richard Dobson. Steve Earle hizo una gran versión el año pasado en Guy, el disco que dedicó a su mentor, y ahora ha sido Chris Stapleton quien se ha recreado junto a su mujer Morgane en esta pieza maestra, una de las dos elegidas para formar parte de su último proyecto, Startin’ Over. Si hablamos del Dirty Old One-Man Band estamos hablando de Scott H. Biram, uno de los más apabullantes músicos tejanos, inquieto hasta límites insospechados y con una capacidad extrema para sorprendernos a cada paso. Es una especie de predicador que hace magia con sus historias, como ahora ocurre en Fever Dreams, el álbum que cumple la docena de discos publicados y que ha grabado entre 2017 y 2019 en su estudio de Austin. Como no podía ser de otra forma, el Reverendo Biram ofrece el más amplio muestrario de su visión del mundo, desnudando sus impresiones de un mundo cargado de nostalgia, amores perdidos o almas solitarias. Todo ello está envuelto en sonidos enraizados que les llevan hasta el truckin’ country de “Can’t Stay Long”.  Otro de los ejemplos de la supervivencia en la escena de la country music es el de Aaron Watson, también tejano y que ha seguido trabajando en nuevos proyectos en plena pandemia. Así ha llegado "Silverado Saturday Night", donde se añoran las fiestas al aire libre y los espacios abiertos y compartidos. Será una de las canciones que formarán parte de su próximo álbum, previsto para 2021. Lo que sabemos es que, sin perder el sonido tradicional de sus grabaciones, el artista de Amarillo tiene previsto que su nuevo trabajo sea accesible a una audiencia más amplia. La última apuesta de John Prine fue Arlo McKinley y él mismo decidió que debía pasar a formar parte de su sello discográfico, Oh Boy Records. El músico de Ohio ha debutado con Die Midwestern y para ello se fue hasta Memphis y se dejó acompañar por músicos como Ken Coomer , Rick Steff y Reba Russell. El resultado es un registro equilibrado entre el country y folk para contar historias como las que siempre cantaron los grandes clásicos, aunque el arrope sonoro es mucho más cercano en el tiempo. Así ocurre con “She’s Always Been Around”, un tema de honky tonk de carretera con la jukebox encendida que hubiera interpretado George Jones con sumo gusto. Hace tres años, en su octavo álbum, Kids in the Street, Justin Townes Earle parecía dispuesto a poner al día las esencias de la música folk para que fueran más atractivas a las nuevas generaciones. Para ello trabajó con Mike Mogis e incorporando un sonido más moderno a unos textos clarividentes e imaginativos. Incluso salió de Nashville, su ciudad natal y donde había grabado hasta entonces. Abriendo aquel registro que cerraba la trilogía que anticiparon Single Mothers y Absent Fathers estaba “Champagne Corolla”, una canción enérgica que ahora, cuando su padre, Steve Earle, la ha incluido en J.T., el álbum que ha dedicado a la memoria de su hijo fallecido, goza de un ambiente más pantanoso que el original. Escuchar audio

Today on the podcast we have two of my favorite people, Glenn Martin & Richard Bronson, talking about how they each reinvented themselves after prison. They are both incredibly generous and reveal their struggles, disappointments, and frailties as well as their successes and service in helping others.Glenn talks about his journey from armed robbery to prison, to nonprofit executive, to founding Just Leadership USA, to entrepreneur, executive coach, and investor in Gem Trainers and Gem Real Estate. Richard discusses his Wall Street life, including at Straton Oakmont (made famous in the movie "The Wolf of Wall Street"), prison, and then founding two companies to lift up returning citizens, 70millionjobs.com and his latest, Commissary Club.So coming up, Glenn Martin & Richard Bronson: Reinventing Yourself on White Collar Week. I hope you will join us. - Jeff______________________Welcome to White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, a podcast serving the white collar justice community. It’s the isolation that destroys us. The solution is in community.If you are interested in this podcast, then you are probably already a member of the white collar justice community – even if you don’t quite know it yet. Our community is certainly made up of people being prosecuted, or who have already been prosecuted, for white collar crimes. But it is also made up of the spouses, children and families of those prosecuted for white collar crimes – these are the first victims of white collar crime. And the community also consists of the other victims, both direct and indirect, and those in the wider white collar ecosystem like friends, colleagues, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, law enforcement, academics, researchers. Investigators, mitigation experts, corrections officers, reentry professionals, mental health care professionals, drug and alcohol counselors, – and ministers, chaplains and advocates for criminal and social justice reform. The list goes on and on…Our mission is to introduce you to other members of the white collar justice community, to hear their very personal stories, and hopefully gain a broader perspective of what this is really all about. Maybe this will inspire some deeper thoughts and introspection? Maybe it will inspire some empathy and compassion for people you might otherwise resent or dismiss? And maybe it will help lift us all out of our own isolation and into community, so we can learn to live again in the sunshine of the spirit.Blessings, לשלוםJeffRev. Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div. (he, him, his)Co-founder, Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc., Greenwich CT & NationwideCo-host, The Criminal Justice Insider PodcastHost, White Collar WeekMailing: P.O. Box 1, Woodbury, CT 06798Website: prisonist.orgEmail: jgrant@prisonist.orgOffice: 203-405-6249Donations (501c3): bit.ly/donate35T9kMZNot a prison coach, not a prison consultant.

Pam Boyd and Glenn Martin of the Flycast Partners North American L1/L2 Support Team share what they are most thankful for in 2020.

This week, host Gray Jones interviews Michael Jamin, TV comedy writer and showrunner who has written on such shows as "King of the Hill," "Maron," and "Beavis and Butthead," and is currently a consulting producer on "Tacoma FD." Housekeeping Announcement: This is the 20th weekly episode since quarantine started, and I am taking a 2-week break before resuming right after Labor Day. I am actively seeking new show runners and upper level writers to interview, so if you know anyone you think would be a good fit, please reach out. Michael Jamin Biography: For the past 25 years, Michael Jamin has been a television writer and showrunner.  His many credits include "King of the Hill," "Wilfred," "Maron," "Beavis and Butthead," "Brickleberry," "Just Shoot Me," "Rules of Engagement," "Tacoma FD" and many more. Get 3 lessons from Michael's new class "The Showrunner's Guide to TV Writing" for FREE! Visit michaeljamin.com/gray/ for details. Photo Credit: Paula Marshall INDEX TO THE EPISODE: 1:43 - Interview start, Michael's backstory, having the desire to write but no experience. Got a few PA jobs, and then while working on “Lois & Clark” he and his writing partner Sivert Glarum had a chance to pitch an episode, which became one of the highest rated episodes of the season. 5:19 - When he first got representation, and how it didn't really help him… was when he first got on staff for “Just Shoot Me” that things really took off. Shares what it was like when he first got on staff and didn't feel he was contributing. Speaks about his mentors during the 4 seasons he was on the show, and some of the advice they gave. 8:17 - Landed the job on “King of the Hill,” where he also wrote for 4 seasons. Speaks about how at that time, it was much more common to jump from show to show as you negotiated more money or a better position.  10:05 - When he and Sivert started running the room, on “Glenn Martin, D.D.S.” Talks about difference of running the room and writing for animation and live action, single camera vs multi-camera. 11:20 - Fun stories about running the room in live action for the first time, on “Maron.” 13:57 - Talks about his development process, where he finds ideas and projects. 14:50 - His most recent show, “Takoma F.D.” 16:08 - Sponsor break. 17:14 - All about Michael's new TV & screenwriting online course, “The Showrunner's Guide to TV Writing.” Visit http://michaeljamin.com/gray for 3 free lessons. 20:32 - State of the industry now vs 20 years ago — easier to break in, but harder to make a living. 21:29 - How he hustles for work — doesn't depend on his agent, and is constantly writing new material. 23:03 - Aside from his course, suggests reading and studying lots of scripts. 23:55 - Advice to greener writers… write and work on your craft every day. What separates a mediocre script from a good script? In interviews? What gets a writer fired from a staff? 28:59 - What does he wish he had known when he started out? How to break a story. How to learn that skill. 30:41 - How to make it long-term in this business — be nice to people. Follow Michael on Twitter: @MJaminWriter You can help with the ongoing costs of bringing these weekly podcasts to you by becoming a patron of the podcast – for as little as 25¢ per episode! There are many reward levels. CLICK HERE to find out more. Buy Gray's book for only $4.99! Look for it on Amazon – How To Break In To TV Writing: Insider Interviews. Didn't get your questions asked? Make sure you follow Gray on Twitter (@GrayJones) so you can get the scoop on who is being interviewed and how to get your questions in. Also check out our TV Writer Twitter Database to find Twitter addresses for over 1,200 TV writers. Find previous episodes and other resources at www.tvwriterpodcast.com.

This week, host Gray Jones interviews Michael Jamin, TV comedy writer and showrunner who has written on such shows as "King of the Hill," "Maron," and "Beavis and Butthead," and is currently a consulting producer on "Tacoma FD."Housekeeping Announcement:This is the 20th weekly episode since quarantine started, and I am taking a 2-week break before resuming right after Labor Day. I am actively seeking new show runners and upper level writers to interview, so if you know anyone you think would be a good fit, please reach out.Michael Jamin Biography:For the past 25 years, Michael Jamin has been a television writer and showrunner.  His many credits include "King of the Hill," "Wilfred," "Maron," "Beavis and Butthead," "Brickleberry," "Just Shoot Me," "Rules of Engagement," "Tacoma FD" and many more.Get 3 lessons from Michael's new class "The Showrunner’s Guide to TV Writing" for FREE! Visit michaeljamin.com/gray/ for details.Photo Credit: Paula MarshallINDEX TO THE EPISODE:1:43 - Interview start, Michael’s backstory, having the desire to write but no experience. Got a few PA jobs, and then while working on “Lois & Clark” he and his writing partner Sivert Glarum had a chance to pitch an episode, which became one of the highest rated episodes of the season.5:19 - When he first got representation, and how it didn’t really help him… was when he first got on staff for “Just Shoot Me” that things really took off. Shares what it was like when he first got on staff and didn’t feel he was contributing. Speaks about his mentors during the 4 seasons he was on the show, and some of the advice they gave.8:17 - Landed the job on “King of the Hill,” where he also wrote for 4 seasons. Speaks about how at that time, it was much more common to jump from show to show as you negotiated more money or a better position. 10:05 - When he and Sivert started running the room, on “Glenn Martin, D.D.S.” Talks about difference of running the room and writing for animation and live action, single camera vs multi-camera.11:20 - Fun stories about running the room in live action for the first time, on “Maron.”13:57 - Talks about his development process, where he finds ideas and projects.14:50 - His most recent show, “Takoma F.D.”16:08 - Sponsor break.17:14 - All about Michael’s new TV & screenwriting online course, “The Showrunner’s Guide to TV Writing.” Visit http://michaeljamin.com/gray for 3 free lessons.20:32 - State of the industry now vs 20 years ago — easier to break in, but harder to make a living.21:29 - How he hustles for work — doesn’t depend on his agent, and is constantly writing new material.23:03 - Aside from his course, suggests reading and studying lots of scripts.23:55 - Advice to greener writers… write and work on your craft every day. What separates a mediocre script from a good script? In interviews? What gets a writer fired from a staff?28:59 - What does he wish he had known when he started out? How to break a story. How to learn that skill.30:41 - How to make it long-term in this business — be nice to people.Follow Michael on Twitter: @MJaminWriterYou can help with the ongoing costs of bringing these weekly podcasts to you by becoming a patron of the podcast – for as little as 25¢ per episode! There are many reward levels. CLICK HERE to find out more.Buy Gray’s book for only $4.99! Look for it on Amazon – How To Break In To TV Writing: Insider Interviews.Didn’t get your questions asked? Make sure you follow Gray on Twitter (@GrayJones) so you can get the scoop on who is being interviewed and how to get your questions in. Also check out our TV Writer Twitter Database to find Twitter addresses for over 1,200 TV writers. Find previous episodes and other resources at www.tvwriterpodcast.com.

On this week’s No Accounting for Taste the editorial team is joined by practice owner Ria-Jaine Lincoln to assess an industry hit-hardest by the pandemic – the hair and beauty sector. Over the last few episodes, we’ve heard from practitioners such as Glenn Martin and Zoe Whitman how tough the last few months have been for the clients they represent. A sector which has suffered a lot during this coronavirus crisis has been the beauty industry. After months of uncertainty, the hair sector was finally able to open its doors once again on 4 July in England along with pubs, restaurants and much of the hospitality sector. But the beauty sector is still one of the remaining industries without a return date, leaving many of these businesses questioning their future. Hosts Richard Hattersley and John Stokdyk ask niche practice owner Ria-Jaine Lincoln how her beauty clients have coped over lockdown and find out how she's managed the excessive workload when her entire client base was unable to trade and needed her support. For all the news and opinions from the world of accountancy, visit AccountingWEB.co.uk: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/

Suponemos que en estas semanas de aislamiento, a todos nos ha dado tiempo de comprar papel higiénico como si no hubiera un mañana, llamar a la familia y a los amigos, encontrar esas fotos que parecían perdidas, limpiar los altillos, vaciar la nevera, y, por supuesto, ordenar los libros y los discos. Cuando te pones a esto último, lo de los discos, de pronto, aparecen algunas obras de arte que, con más o menos tiempo, te reencuentras hasta contigo mismo... Pues hoy hemos decidido recopilar algunas de ellas. Si alguna vez quieres retroceder en el tiempo y revisar la historia cultural de lo que se llama Americana, no está de más remitirse a Dom Flemons, un historiador de la música. Es un folclorista de Phoenix, Arizona. Cantante y compositor, se ha convertido, además, en todo un experto en instrumentos tradicionales. Fue socio fundador de Carolina Chocolate Drops y dejó el grupo en 2014 para seguir en solitario. El cuarto de sus discos, Black Cowboys, formó parte de una de las múltiples series de las que edita Smithsonian. Está inspirado en sus raíces familiares y narra una buena parte de la rica y profunda historia de la música del oeste de Estados Unidos, a menudo ignorada. Las canciones incluyen estándares tan queridos como "Home On the Range" pero también hay espacio para temas originales del estilo de "He’s A Lone Ranger", un homenaje a la figura de Bass Reeves, crecido en la región de Texarcana y convertido en diputado. Mirando a esos discos que de pronto aparecen, nos hemos encontrado con Stoney Edwards, un cantante de country con una presencia significativa entre los artistas más enraizados dentro de la música country. Nativo de Seminole, en Oklahoma, ha pasado a la historia por una canción como "She's My Rock", convertida en todo un éxito del año 1972 y más aún cuando Brenda Lee y George Jones la versionaron un par de años más tarde. Y buscando y buscando… le ha tocado el turno a Charley Pride, que creció escuchando a algunos de los maestros como Ernest Tubb, Eddy Arnold, Hank Williams y George Jones. Desarrolló un estilo propio partiendo de ellos, pero incluyó a otros de sus favoritos, como Sam Cooke, B.B. King o Brook Benton. Y es que volvemos a remitirnos a esa frase de Nick Lowe en la que nos recordaba que si eres capaz de unir el country y el soul conseguirás la mejor de las canciones. Charley Pride siempre entendió que la música americana se construye desde el country, el gospel y el blues. Es muy posible que su canción más recordada sea "Is Anybody Goin' To San Antone?", que alcanzó la cima de las listas de country en Abril de 1970. A costa de un malentendido entre la editorial y los compositores -Glenn Martin y Dave Kirby-, el tema había sido grabado y publicado por Bake Turner, jugador del equipo de fútbol americano de los Jets de New York. Pride intento encontrar otros singles para sustituirlo, pero la grabación había quedado tan perfecta como acabamos de escuchar y decidieron editarla. La versión de Turner no tuvo la más mínima repercusión. Ray Charles es un nombre antes el que hay que quitarse cualquier sombrero y cuando te reencuentras con alguno de sus Lps antológicos solo puedes estar agradecido. En 1952 se había mudado al sello ABC/Paramount para poder tener un mayor control sobre su música. Fue por entonces cuando decidió ensanchar el horizonte estilístico y adentrarse en caminos que hasta entonces no había experimentado. Eddy Arnold y Cindy Walker compusieron “You Don’t Know Me” y el primero de ellos grabó la versión original en la primavera de 1956. Pero seis años después, el músico invidente la llevó al segundo puesto de las listas generales de singles tras sorprender a la industria con un álbum convertido en fundamental para la historia de la música popular Modern Sounds In Country And Western Music. En ocasiones, uno agradece tener cierto tiempo para permitir la reaparición de músicos y canciones que tenías durante demasiado tiempo en el olvido. Y estas fechas nos han traído al presente al tejano de Simonton Dobie Gray, cuya carrera abarcó el soul… y también el country. A mitad de los 60 dejó para el recuerdo "The 'In' Crowd", pero en 1973, el mismo año en que nació TOMA UNO publicó "Drift Away". Aquella canción que había compuesto Mentor Williams tres años antes y que había grabado en origen John Henry Kurtz fue la que marcó la carrera del artista de Texas. Ted Hawkins siempre fue un personaje enigmático. Tocaba en la calle o en pequeños locales y era poco comunicativo. Muchos se arrogaron haberle descubierto a lo largo de los años, pero este artista de Biloxi, en Mississippi, era difícil de llevar a otros terrenos que no fueran el de su libertad personal. Sus grabaciones se repartieron de forma indiscriminada y algunas de ellas fueron ordenadas por Rounder en 1982, con una excelente aceptación por parte de la crítica, aunque con mínimas ventas. Ted Hawkins mezclaba gospel, folk y country con acento sureño y un acompañamiento casi minimalista, propio de los pioneros. Cuando te encuentras con un disco como The Next Hundred Years de 1994, editado poco menos de un año antes de su muerte, es su grabación emblemática. El cierre de aquel último disco en vida fue esta versión a “Long As I Can See The Light”, que también fue el último corte de Cosmos Factory para la Creedence Clearwater Revival, que en un mes cumplirá medio siglo de edición. Darius Rucker tenía muy claro que en su álbum True Believers, iba a incluir una versión de “Wagon Wheel”, que sacaron a la luz Old Crow Medicine Show y que se convirtió en uno de los temas favoritos de su hija. La melodía y los coros de esta canción pertenecen a Bob Dylan, que la maquetó en 1973 durante las sesiones de grabación de Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid y aunque nunca se editó oficialmente, se pudo encontrar en algunos discos piratas de Dylan con el nombre de "Rock Me Mama". A pesar de que estaba inacabada, Ketch Secor escribió una letra adicional y convirtió "Rock Me Mama" en "Wagon Wheel", siendo incluida en el álbum O.C.M.S. de 2004. Cuando en estos tiempos escuchas una canción que describe un viaje en autostop desde Nueva Inglaterra hasta Carolina del Norte, pasando por Virginia para llegar a Cumberland Gap y Johnson City, en Tennessee, para encontrarte con tu amor, supone todo una brisa alegre. Darius Rucker, el que fuera miembro de Hootie & the Blowfish, contó por entonces en las armonías vocales con los miembros de Lady Antebellum, que el pasado jueves anunció el cambio de su nombre por el de Lady A, mostrándose arrepentidos y avergonzados por no haber considerado la asociación del término "Antebellum" con la esclavitud, previo a la Guerra Civil de Estados Unidos. A veces, mirando en los armarios, te encuentras con algunos discos que hacía tiempo que no escuchábamos. Esta vez nos hemos ido a 1974 y a un álbum como That's A Plenty. Fue una época en que las distribuidoras españolas de discográficas internacionales se preocupaban, y mucho, por editar una buena parte de las novedades de Gran Bretaña y Estados Unidos. Aquel disco de las Pointer Sisters fue toda una sorpresa, sobre todo cuando esta canción, se llevó el premio Grammy a la mejor canción de country. Trataba, como suele ocurrir en buena parte de los temas del género, sobre una ruptura, en este caso basada en la experiencia personal de Bonnie Pointer y tras escuchar a James Taylor. Mavis Staples es una de las grandes veteranas a las que hay que rendir pleitesía de vez en cuando, porque suponen mantener viva la llama de la reivindicación de las raíces más profundas de la música norteamericana y la fusión de los géneros y de las formas. Mavis grabó hace 10 años un álbum como You’re Not Alone con la producción de Jeff Tweddy, consiguiendo un Grammy como mejor álbum de Americana. Aquel disco nos permitió recordar un Lp como Green River, el tercero de la CCR, cuyo nombre fue tomado del escrito de la etiqueta de una botella de jarabe, además de ser un lugar que John Fogerty solía visitar en Putah Creek, un río del norte de California. Cerrando la cara A de aquel vinilo encontramos “Wrote a Song For Everyone”, una canción que Fogerty elegiría en 2013 como título de su álbum de su noveno álbum en solitario en el que contó con un buen número de invitados pero que antes había versionado de esta forma la veterana vocalista. Yola es una vocalista y compositora británica de Bristol descubierta por Dan Auerbach, miembro de los Black Keys, que la descubrió a través de un vídeo actuando en Nashville que le envió un amigo. Él mismo fue el productor de su álbum de debut, Walk Through Fire, publicado a finales de febrero de 2019 y convertido en uno de los favoritos de TOMA UNO. Desde entonces, se ha convertido en una de las voces más recurrentes del panorama de la Americana, participando en la última edición de Festival de Newport junto a las Highwomen, Sheryl Crow y Dolly Parton, por ejemplo. Su anticipo de su único álbum hasta el momento fue “Ride Out In The Country”, un tapiz sonoro lleno de sonidos tradicionales que unificaban fiddle, Steel guitar, cuerdas y una capacidad interpretativa poco común. Carolina Chocolate Drops enamoró a los aficionados con su propuesta de poner al día la música del siglo XIX y la tradición de muchas décadas de la música de Estados Unidos. Esa formación acústica procedente de Carolina del Norte encontró en su álbum Leaving Eden a otro de los productores perfectos para mantener esa fórmula de contactar el pasado y el presente. Era Buddy Miller, que logró que aquel disco se percibiera como una fiesta de sábado por la noche. Dentro de aquel ramillete de canciones con ecos de siglos pasados, era inevitable destacar un tema propio como “Country Girl”. En aquel trío destacó la personalidad de Rhiannon Giddens, a quien hemos venido siguiendo desde hace tiempo y que nos ha dejado multitud de aventuras sonoras e incluso sus aportaciones como actriz a series televisivas como Nashville. Mickey Guyton es una joven artista de Arlington, en Texas, que se ha convertido en una de las voces más populares de la escena del country en los últimos tiempos. Su más reciente novedad es un tema como “Black Like Me”, que vio la luz coincidiendo con el reciente Blackout Tuesday y que narra su experiencia personal en la vida cotidiana de Estados Unidos y en la industria del country, poniendo el énfasis en determinadas desigualdades muy evidentes. Sus diferencias con su sello discográfico son bien conocidas. Esa nueva canción tiene entre sus versos uno que dice, explícitamente, “Si piensas que vivimos en la tierra de los libres, deberías intentar ser negra como yo”. Hoy queremos concluir con un artista que marcó un momento crucial en la historia de este género. Es DeFord Bailey. Él fue toda una estrella del country desde los años 20 hasta la llegada de la década de los 40. Tocaba varios instrumentos, pero era especialmente conocido como armonicista. El 10 de diciembre de 1927, tras un espacio de música clásica de la NBC llamado Music Appreciation Hour, la emisora de Nashville WSM comenzó su Barn Dance con un comentario de su gerente y locutor, George D. Hay, que ha pasado a la historia: "Durante la última hora, hemos estado escuchando música en gran parte de Grand Opera, pero a partir de ahora, presentaremos" The Grand Ole Opry ". La primera canción que sonó fue "Pan American Blues", que es la que hoy cierra el tiempo de TOMA UNO y nos cita para mañana en la sintonía habitual de cada fin de semana en Radio 3. Hoy hemos reunido algunas de las canciones que hemos venido escuchando también en estas fechas de cuarentena. Hemos recorrido con ellas distintas etapas de la country music. Y, al final, resulta que entre todos los artistas que nos han acompañado había una coincidencia. Todos son negros… Black Lives Matter. Escuchar audio

Glenn Martin welcomes Billie James, who is running for Chino Valley town council

This week we sat down with Glenn Martin Hammond, Democratic Candidate for the 31st District State Senate seat for the upcoming election on June 23rd. Glenn Hammond is an eastern Kentucky native who has dedicated his life to standing up for those who couldn’t stand up for themselves. He will continue that same fight against corporate special interests in Frankfort for the people of the mountains and the commonwealth of Kentucky. You can find more information about Mr. Hammonds platform at https://hammondforkysenate.com/ and his Facebook https://www.facebook.com/glennhammondforsenate/.

Glenn Martin sits down with Daniel McCarthy, who is running for US Senate for Arizona, the Primary where he faces against Martha McSally is August 4th, 2020.

Glenn Martin sits down with Sherrie Hanna who is running for Yavapai County Board of Supervisor, District 1. You can learn more about her by visiting hannaforsupervisor.com

Glenn Martin sits down with Wiley Cline, from Cornville AZ, who is running for Yavapai County Board of Supervisors for District 2

Former Prescott Mayor and current Candidate for Board of Supervisors, District 1 stops by the studio to talk to Glenn Martin about the current crisis and his thoughts on how some government officials are handling it.

My guest today is Glenn Martin, a business consultant with over 30 years of experience. In 2002 he founded Trakstar, a human resource software application which he grew to 250K online users in 35 countries before he sold the company in 2016. Glen is formally retired but lends his expertise as a counselor with the Central Mountain Small Business Development Center here in Colorado. 

Glenn Martin brings Quang Nguyen back into the studio to talk about how the campaign has been going and more. Quang is running for AZ House LD-1.

Social media and video has become an integral part of modern culture. While social media was once viewed as a workplace distraction, many companies are changing their views and teams are embracing social media and video platforms as a powerful communication tool - and it's about time. In this episode Glenn Martin, Talent Acquisition Project Manager and co-host of The #SocialRecruiting Show, Lewis and Aldo discuss the journey from candidate to employee and beyond. They cover the various topics around how companies are using social media and video technology to engage with prospective candidates and team members. Show notes: Glenn Martin LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2V8pUnM

Glenn Martin talks to Jim and Janet Arroyo about the Oath Keepers of Yavapai County, Arizona on location in Chino Valley

Glenn Martin brings in Noel Campbell to give us an update on all the work that’s been going on in Arizona with the budget and many other issues Noel’s been focused on doing.

Glenn Martin sits down with Dr. Askari, from Thumb Butte Medical Center and Stephen Everett, from Yavapai County Community Health Services to talk about COVID-19 and what everyone should do to prepare for this pandemic. Don't panic, we'll get through this together.

Glenn Martin talks to Selina Bliss who is running for Selina Bliss Legislative District 1

Glenn Martin and AZ State House Representative,Mark Finchem, talk about Public Land and the issues Arizonans are facing and what can be done to sustain Property Rights.

Glenn Martin invites AZ State House Representative, Mark Finchem, the Chair of the Federalism, Property Rights and Public Policy Committee.

Heyy 2020! We're kicking off the year talking about one of the most brutal and culturally enduring crimes in American history - the murder of Elizabeth Short, AKA the Black Dahlia.WTF Moments:On January 15th, 1947, Elizabeth Short was found murdered, laying naked in a field, cut in half, and completely drained of blood. She was 22 years old.Elizabeth's dad was a d*ck, he "faked suicide" during the Great Depression and left his wife and 5 daughters totally f*cked for 12 years.Elizabeth had a touch life growing up, and when she was a young adult she got like, really pretty, and became an aspiring model/actress.Elizabeth's body was found on the morning of January 15, 1947, by Mrs. Betty Bersing, and her three-year old daughter.Betty originally thought it was a mannequin due to its pose and pallor. - You know how you find mannequins in fields sometimes... When she realized she was looking at a corpse, she immediately telephoned the police.The killer ​began contacting police within a week​ of the body's discovery. He started with a phone call, saying they should "expect souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail." A few days later, he/she sent a package with some of Elizabeth's personal belongings, including: Elizabeth Short’s birth certificate, business cards, photographs, and an address book with the name “Mark Hansen” on the cover. Steve Hodel, a former Los Angeles detective, has spent 23 years ​gathering evidence​ to posthumously I.D. his father as Elizabeth Short's killer. With good reason, because his dad was sketchy AF. George Hodel (Steve's father) basically admitted to murdering her. He was literally recorded on tape saying "Supposin' I did kill the Black Dahlia. They can't prove it now. They can't talk to my secretary anymore because she's dead." - oh, he was also questioned about his secretary's random and untimely death. George was a doctor, more than capable of the precise hemicorporectomy performed on Elizabeth Short. Also, the initials "G.H" were repeatedly mentioned in a posthumous letter from police informant W. Glenn Martin referencing both the Black Dahlia murder as well as the Green Twig murder only two years later. ​George Hodel was questioned and released for that one, too​.If you're keeping track, that's 3 separate murder's George was a suspect in.The Black Dahlia murder has been unsolved for over 70 years, but it's certainly not for lack of manpower. Between January 1947 and the spring of that same year, 400 sheriff's deputies and 250 California State Patrol officers tried, unsuccessfully to solve the crime. Some, think it’s because the LAPD ​was actually trying to cover it up​.... will we ever know?Check out our website!Contact us!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/join/cocktailsandconspiracies?)

Hello and welcome to another illuminating episode of fun and frivolity with those goofballs from Nerds Amalgamated. First up we have a story about how Nintendo are crashing Roku devices. That’s right, Nintendo have an issue with Pokémon Sword and Shield that is causing Roku to crash and shut down. Now if you want to know more you will need to listen in and then you can tell us what you think in our Facebook group if you think Buck is being to grumpy.Next up we have the start of Jurassic Park with a beetle trapped in amber. That’s right, a real beetle trapped in amber. This one in particular is historical due to a few important factors, such as the age of the beetle. Would you believe it was around almost 100 million years ago? That’s right and it played an important part in the local ecology. Want to know how the listen in for our second story and then tell us what was your favourite part of the Jurassic Park movies?Last up we have those poor people at Disney having to vault movies to try and increase the value and increase the margins. That’s right, since Disney the evil organization seeing world domination have bought Fox media they have begun to reduce access to Fox movies to create a false scarcity. This is only one of the underhanded things that they are doing, if you want to know more you know what to do. Also let us know what you think about these dirty tricks by Disney in our group.Pokémon Sword and Shield crashing Roku devices - https://www.cnet.com/how-to/pokemon-sword-and-shield-are-making-rokus-crash-nintendo-switch/A beetle in amber - https://www.futurity.org/beetle-in-amber-first-flower-pollination-2208542-2/Fox Movies being vaulted by Disney - https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.htmlGames currently playingBuck– Spyro - https://store.steampowered.com/app/996580/Spyro_Reignited_Trilogy/Rating – 4.5/5Prof– DNPDJ– Age of Empires Definitive Edition bundle - https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/11831/Age_of_Empires_Definitive_Edition_Bundle/Rating – 4/5Other Topics DiscussedReddit post on Pokemon Sword & Shield crashing roku devices- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dxc5yg/psa_pokemon_swordshield_causes_roku_devices_on/Roku (Digital Media Player)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RokuSuper Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018 crossoverfighting game developed by Bandai Namco Studios and Sora Ltd., and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._UltimateLink (Legend of Zelda character)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_(The_Legend_of_Zelda)Pebble (discontinued smartwatch developed by Pebble Technology Corporation)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_(watch)Pokémon Sword and Shield Pokédex cut can be permanent- https://www.techradar.com/au/news/pokemon-sword-and-shields-pokedex-cut-could-be-permanentPokémon Sword and Shield Pokédex restored by hackers- https://www.polygon.com/2019/11/18/20970489/pokemon-sword-shield-hacking-modding-national-dex-cut-monsters-nintendo-switchHelium leak disables iPhones- https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gye4aw/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-every-iphone-in-a-medical-facilityThe Magic Switch- http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.htmlPterodactylus (extinct genus of pterosaurs, whose members are commonly known as pterodactyls)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PterodactylusPollination of Cretaceous flowers (Article by Tong Bao, Bo Wang, Jianguo Li, and David Dilcher)- https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/11/05/1916186116Witchetty Grub (term used in Australia for the large, white, wood-eating larvae of several moths)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchetty_grubCopyright infringement (colloquially referred to as piracy)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringementMore details on Disney vaulting 20th Century Fox Movies- https://collider.com/disney-vault-20th-century-fox-movies/Baby Driver’s Edgar Wright Isn’t Happy About Disney Putting Fox’s Movies In The Vault- https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2484090/baby-drivers-edgar-wright-isnt-happy-about-disney-putting-foxs-movies-in-the-vaultArtificial Scarcity (the scarcity of items that exists even though either the technology for production or the sharing capacity exists to create a theoretically limitless or at least greater quantity of production than currently exists)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_scarcitySony keeping Spiderman- https://variety.com/2019/film/news/sony-marvel-tom-holland-spider-man-1203351489/Fox Searchlight Pictures (American film studio that is a subsidiary of The Walt Disney Studios, a division of The Walt Disney Company)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Searchlight_PicturesJoJo Rabbit (2019 American satirical black comedy film written and directed by Taika Waititi, based on Christine Leunens's book Caging Skies)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jojo_RabbitGuy Ritchie (English film director, film producer, screenwriter, and businessman, known for his British gangster films)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_RitchieAladdin (2019 American musical fantasy film produced by Walt Disney Pictures)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(2019_film)Age of Empire 2 old intro- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rS_n3JVTPEWololo sound effect- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNTxlafhWYoGlenn Martin, DDS (American/Canadian adult stop-motion animated sitcom that premiered on Nick at Nite on August 17, 2009)- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Martin,_DDSMusicals Taught Me Everything I Know (TNC Podcast)- https://thatsnotcanon.com/mtmeikShoutouts16 Nov 1902 - Brooklyn toymaker Morris Michtom named the teddy bear after US President Teddy Roosevelt. It was named in honor of President Theodore Roosevelt, after he refused to shoot a bear during a Mississippi hunting trip in November 1902. During the trip, guides clubbed a bear and tied it to a tree then invited the president to shoot it; instead, Roosevelt, an avid outdoorsman and hunter, declined, saying it would be unsportsmanlike to kill a defenseless animal that way. - https://www.nps.gov/thrb/learn/historyculture/storyofteddybear.htm18 Nov 1926 - Writer and playwright George Bernard Shaw refused to accept money from the Nobel Prize. Shaw initially wanted to refuse the Nobel Prize in general, in line with his principle of not receiving public recognition, but his wife convinced him to receive the award. - https://history.info/on-this-day/1926-why-did-george-bernard-shaw-refuse-the-money-from-the-nobel-prize/18 Nov 2019 – Shoutout to the firefighters, SES, Ambulance services, Police, RSPCA & other services - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7703587/Australia-scorched-125-year-heatwave-bushfires-continue-burn.html20 Nov 2019 - Dr Karl Kruszelnicki is being awarded the 2019 UNESCO Kalinga Prize for the Popularisation of Science. Dr Karl is the first Australian to win the prize, which he received in recognition of his "longstanding commitment to fire up people's curiosity for science and share his passion for the subject". He prides himself on being able to explain in minutes concepts or ideas that take him hours to research and understand. - https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/dr-karl-kruszelnicki-unesco-award-science-communication/11717044Remembrances18 Nov 1962 - Niels Henrik David Bohr, Danish physicist who made foundational contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1922. Bohr was also a philosopher and a promoter of scientific research. Bohr developed the Bohr model of the atom, in which he proposed that energy levels of electrons are discrete and that the electrons revolve in stable orbits around the atomic nucleus but can jump from one energy level (or orbit) to another. Bohr was involved with the establishment of CERN and the Research Establishment Risø of the Danish Atomic Energy Commission and became the first chairman of the Nordic Institute for Theoretical Physics in 1957. He died from heart failure at the age of 77 in Copenhagen - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr18 Nov 1941 - Walther Hermann Nernst, German chemist known for his work in thermodynamics, physical chemistry, electrochemistry and solid state physics. His formulation of the Nernst heat theorem helped pave the way for the third law of thermodynamics, for which he won the 1920 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. He is also known for developing the Nernst equation in 1887. Nernst developed an electric piano, the "Neo-Bechstein-Flügel" in 1930 in association with the Bechstein and Siemens companies, replacing the sounding board with vacuum tube amplifiers. The piano used electromagnetic pickups to produce electronically modified and amplified sound in the same way as an electric guitar. He died from a heart attack at the age of 77 in Zibelle, Landkreis Rothenburg, Gau Lower Silesia or present-day Niwica, Lubusz Voivodeship - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_Nernst18 Nov 2017 - Malcolm Young, Australian musician and songwriter, best known as a co-founder, rhythm guitarist, backing vocalist and songwriter for the hard rock band AC/DC. Except for a brief absence in 1988, he was with the band from its November 1973 beginning until retiring in 2014 due to health reasons. Young and the other members of AC/DC were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2003. Malcolm was described as the driving force and the leader of the band. In 2014, he stated that despite his retirement from the band, AC/DC was determined to continue making music with his blessing. As the rhythm guitarist, he was responsible for the broad sweep of the band's sound, developing many of their guitar riffs and co-writing the band's material with Angus. He died from dementia at the age of 64 in Elizabeth Bay, New South Wales - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_YoungFamous Birthdays18 Nov 1939 - Margaret Eleanor Atwood, Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, inventor, teacher, and environmental activist. Since 1961, she has published 17 books of poetry, 16 novels, 10 books of non-fiction, eight collections of short fiction, eight children's books, and one graphic novel, as well as a number of small press editions in poetry and fiction. Atwood is also the inventor and developer of the LongPen and associated technologies that facilitate remote robotic writing of documents. Several of her works have been adapted for film and television, increasing her exposure. Atwood's works encompass a variety of themes including gender and identity, religion and myth, the power of language, climate change, and "power politics". Many of her poems are inspired by myths and fairy tales which interested her from a very early age. She was born in Ottawa,Ontario - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Atwood18 Nov 1953 - Kevin Nealon, American comedian and actor. He was a cast member on Saturday Night Live from 1986 to 1995, acted in several of the Happy Madison films, played Doug Wilson on the Showtime series Weeds, and provided the voice of the title character, Glenn Martin, on Glenn Martin, DDS. He was born in St. Louis, Missouri - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Nealon18 Nov 1961 - Steven Moffat, Scottish television writer and producer. He is best known for his work as showrunner, writer and executive producer of two BBC One series: the science fiction television series Doctor Who, and the contemporary crime drama television series Sherlock, based on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories. In 2015, Moffat was appointed Officer of the Order of the British Empire for his services to drama. He was born in Paisley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_MoffatEvents of Interest17 Nov 1999 - Sleepy Hollow came out, it earned decent reviews and doing solid business. Burton fanatics who loved his creepy aesthetic were thrilled to finally have a true horror film from the director at last. - https://nerdist.com/article/sleepy-hollow-tim-burton-20th-anniversary/18 Nov 1865 – Mark Twain's short story "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County" is published in the New York Saturday Press where it appeared as "Jim Smiley and His Jumping Frog". In it, the narrator retells a story he heard from a bartender, Simon Wheeler, at the Angels Hotel in Angels Camp, California, about the gambler Jim Smiley. The narrator describes him: "If he even seen a straddle bug start to go anywheres, he would bet you how long it would take him to get to wherever he going to, and if you took him up, he would foller that straddle bug to Mexico but what he would find out where he was bound for and how long he was on the road." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celebrated_Jumping_Frog_of_Calaveras_County18 Nov 1978 - In Jonestown, Guyana, Jim Jones led his Peoples Temple to a mass murder–suicide that claimed 918 lives in all, 909 of them in Jonestown itself, including over 270 children. Congressman Leo Ryan is murdered by members of the Peoples Temple hours earlier. Jonestown resulted in the largest single loss of American civilian life in a deliberate act until September 11, 2001. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown18 Nov 2015 - "Kangaroo Dundee" wildlife TV series premieres featuring Brolga and Roger the ripped Kangaroo on BBC Two - https://www.onthisday.com/date/2015/november/18IntroArtist – Goblins from MarsSong Title – Super Mario - Overworld Theme (GFM Trap Remix)Song Link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GNMe6kF0j0&index=4&list=PLHmTsVREU3Ar1AJWkimkl6Pux3R5PB-QJFollow us onFacebook- Page - https://www.facebook.com/NerdsAmalgamated/- Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/440485136816406/Twitter - https://twitter.com/NAmalgamatedSpotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6Nux69rftdBeeEXwD8GXrSiTunes - https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/top-shelf-nerds/id1347661094RSS - http://www.thatsnotcanonproductions.com/topshelfnerdspodcast?format=rssInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/nerds_amalgamated/General EnquiriesEmail - Nerds.Amalgamated@gmail.com

Glenn Martin sits down with Larry Jacobs, the Northern Arizona Area Chair of ESGR to talk about what ESGR is, why it’s important, boss lifts, and other opportunities to learn more about ESGR.

Glenn Martin sits down with AZ State Representative, Legislative District 1 Candidate, Quang Nguyen about being a legal immigrant and his current campaign for the State House.

Glenn Martin sits down with Carol Chamberlain and Lisa Sahady with the Arizona Community Foundation of Yavapai County about all the various ways that people can help organizations and school through the use of endowments and much more.

Glenn Martin talks to former County Supervisor, Jack Smith who now is the State Director of the US Department of Agriculture in Rural Development.

Prescott Talks host Glenn Martin sits down with Daniel McCarthy to discuss his candidacy for US Senate as he takes on Senator Martha McSally.

How do you know, through conversation, if someone is a good fit for your team and your company, both now and into the future? My guest is Talent Acquisition Project Manager, Glenn Martin. Glenn talks to a lot of people - candidates and hiring managers. Companies bring him in to find great talent and to create the best hiring experience so from reviewing CVs to the interview, making us an offer, on-boarding us and then, once we’ve joined the company, how we can grow, and what career paths are open to us. He works with several clients or companies at a time to help them make smart hiring decisions, fast.Which is no small challenge because people are sometimes unpredictable and sometimes surprising. And there’s often gap he’s helping to bridge between what a company is looking for in a new hire and what that particular individual could offer beyond the immediate need they’d be fulfilling, beyond the first 3-6 months. How does Glenn influence who gets that job offer and what influences his own decision-making? That’s all in this episode including what he does to put you at ease at the interview and how, as someone who studied sports science, he found himself in talent acquisition.To connect with Glenn Martin, check him out on LinkedIn and visit his website.Click here for more episodes of Better Conversations with Sehaam Cyrene.

Christmas music? On our podcast? It's more likely than you'd think. Your good pals in Jukebox Zeroes get festive and also drunk on white wine riffing on their favorite, and of course least favorite, holiday music. We are joined by friends and family this week, Aimee Hauthaway and Glenn Martin, as they help shed light on a genre of music that many seem to be ambivalent towards. Whatever, we had fun. 

Glenn Martin talks about shutting down Rikers and Prison Reform. Plus, what happened to the Democratic Party, the Most Censored Stories of 2017 and more!

Glenn Martin talks about shutting down Rikers and Prison Reform. Plus, what happened to the Democratic Party, the Most Censored Stories of 2017 and more!

S4E11: From Wrongful Conviction to Righteous Justice: From Rage to Grace Ronald Simpson-Bey was a jailhouse lawyer who got his conviction reversed for prosecutorial misconduct and subsequently won his freedom after serving 27 years in Michigan prison. In 1986, Ronald was convicted of assault with intent to murder and possession of a firearm and sentenced to 50 years in prison. While in prison he became familiar with the legal system and began assisting other inmates with their appeals as a jailhouse lawyer. Eventually, his work led to his own release twenty-seven years later. Since being freed, Ronald Simpson-Bey has worked tirelessly to advance prison reform efforts, most recently through JustLeadershipUSA, an organization with the ambitious goal to halve the nation’s correctional population by 2030. In this episode, he is joined by Glenn Martin, former President and Founder of JustLeadershipUSA. wrongfulconvictionpodcast.com Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom is a production of Lava For Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1 and PRX.

Fact: More than 100,000 individuals in the US are held in private prisons and private immigration detention centers. These institutions are criticized for making money off mass incarceration―$5 billion every year―and have become a focus of the anti-mass incarceration movement. The Department of Justice under President Obama attempted to cut off private prisons, while DOJ under Trump has embraced these institutions. Few journalists or scholars have seen these prisons firsthand―until now. Join Lauren-Brooke Eisen―senior counsel at the Brennan Center for Justice―for the launch of her new book, Inside Private Prisons, as she reflects on her unprecedented access to our nation’s private penal system and what she’s uncovered about these corporate prisons. She will be joined by Glenn Martin of JustLeadershipUSA and CNN's Laura Jarrett will moderate the discussion.

DeRay, Brittany, Sam and Clint talk about this week’s news including, #metoo, the current tax bill, a study on the impact of teachers of color and the so-called “digital Muslim ban.” Andy Slavitt joins for a brief update on the GOP snuck health care changes into the latest tax bill, and DeRay talks with Glenn Martin of Just Leadership USA about closing Rikers Island Jail in NYC and the justice system more broadly.

Mississippi Chain Gang. Danie and Carlos talk about relapse and reaching out before disaster happens. Parole and be of service to the community and others by bringing food to skid row, going into juvenile facilities; we want to set the example with our actions.   If you are formerly incarcerated and need help, shoot us a line:   Email Daniel: danielh@releasedintocaptivity.com Email Carlos: carlosc@releasedintocaptivity.com Scott Countryman: countryman447@icloud.com   ARC Mentorship Program workshops that teach peer to peer mentorship and train allies others in the community and Stanford Ride Home Program Daniel talks about his week with one of the Released Into Captivity family members in Nor Cal: going to 12-step meetings and sponsorship. Make the effort to transition with support. Life is a brand new world: paying rent, car payment, food on the table. Joshua 1:9 waiting for a jury verdict.No re-entry textbook. Daniel was a guest with Chris and Dave of The Dopey Podcast (episode 90) and Jed and Jay of Church and Other Drugs. Inside Out Writers , Sally Hamilton (ARC Ally Mentor), Jimmy Woo, and Matthew Mizel. Matthew connected us with Emma Hughes of Project Rebound Fresno. Matthew is also connecting Carlos DeLeon with Project Rebound. Cut 50, JLUSA, Glenn Martin.   Scott and Daniel discuss the effects pay differences between guards in Mississippi and California have on life in prison. Scott is the middle child of a very affluent family. Started drinking and living a rebel lifestyle to feel a part of and cool. Finds vicodin as a sophomore in high school and plays Contra loaded Hurricane Katrina fraud. Scott buys 1000 dilaudid and a gallon of promethazine and developes a huge opiate habit. Finds himself broke, ODs and faces federal charges for moving fraudulently obtained money across state line and illegal stock sales.Turtle suit, tp squares, and used cups. Part of the jail destroyed by the hurricane and they served Lunchables. Delicious breakfast biscuits in Harrison County jail. Scott receives 10 years, suspended and drug court. Fails a drug screen and receives all 10 years.  He goes to South Mississippi Correctional Institute then to Parchman Mississippi. Down on the Parchman Farm. A balanced public safety policy. 80% Mississippi prison population affiliated with “organizations” (gangs): Simon City Royals or Latin Kings (Five Point Star) , Six Point Stars (Gangster Disciples), Vice Lords. Scott touches on the corruption inside. We talk about consequences to criminal activity inside the cage. CID (Criminal Investigation Division). Cell phone consequences. The Box!!! Get to work! No one owes you shit!! Do what you say! If you don’t want change, no program can change you. Suit up and show up. Get a mentor/sponsor The Shair Podcast   www.releasedintocaptivity.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/Released2cptvty Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Releasedintocaptivity/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/releasedintocaptivity/

This week on #PotStockRadio Eric Butz @PotStockEric along with his co-hosts Nick, Stac & KD start the show off with our first guest ever! Chuck Rifici had to cancel at the last minute and Alan Brochstein offered to step in and save the show. Also, I've been talking to Glenn Martin from Weed Inc $BUDZ for a couple of years about coming on and the timing wasn't right. Lucky for us the timing was right for him to be on tonight! We'll talk to Glenn about the company and his involvment as CEO and co-founder along with a possible announcement live on the show!  As always any questions or feedback about the show can be directed to eric@potstockradio.com PotStockRadio does not condone or promote the use of any illegal substance. Also, PotStockRadio is for educational and informational purposes only!

There is a plan to close New York City's most infamous jail, Rikers Island, in 10 years, and Glenn E. Martin is a huge reason why.  Glenn, a Brooklyn native with West Indian roots, is the founder and president of JustLeadership USA, which is dedicated to cutting the US correctional population in half by 2030.  In this episode (recorded just three weeks before NYC Mayor De Blasio announced to close Rikers Island) Glenn speaks about his upbringing as a young boy in BedStuy, Brooklyn, race, his mom, being stabbed on Rikers, and his road to being a leading voice in criminal justice.  Glenn is well accomplished and was recently awarded the prestigious Robert F. Kennedy Award.  To find out more about Glenn and the #CloseRikers movement, check out: https://www.justleadershipusa.org/ https://www.closerickers.org/ Tweet about this episode at #decarceratedpodcast / @decarceratedpod / @_marlonpeterson / @glennEmartin

President and Founder of JustLeadershipUSA Glenn Martin joins Curtis to discuss Mayor de Blasio endorsing the plan to close Rikers Island

On this edition of the Garden Show, Charlie Dobbin and co-pilot Frank Proctor answer a range of questions from listeners, including a question about red beetles on lilies and Charlie welcomes guest Glenn Martin from Scotts.

On this edition of the Garden Show, Charlie Dobbin and co-pilot Frank Proctor answer a range of questions from listeners, including a question about red beetles on lilies and Charlie welcomes guest Glenn Martin from Scotts.

President Obama's re-election hasn’t changed the fact that the nation remains divided along party lines. However, there is one important part of his agenda where there seems to be common ground and that is in fixing the nation’s broken criminal justice system. Americans from all parts of the political spectrum are ready to take a more pragmatic approach to justice issues that once divided the country. How will the second Obama Administration take advantage of this shift? Guests: Gloria Browne-Marshall is an associate professor of constitutional law at John Jay College. A former civil rights attorney, she’s founder of the Law and Policy Group. She’s also an award-winning playwright. Glenn Martin is Vice President of Development and Public affairs at the Fortune Society, which works to help ex-offenders reintegrate into their communities. He’s director of the Society’s David Rothenberg Center for Public Policy, and a member of the New York City Council to End Gun Violence.

In this episode, I chat with TV writer/producer Michael Jamin, a very funny man whose credits include: "Just Shoot Me," "King Of The Hill," "Brickleberry," "Wilfred," and "Maron." Michael shares a lot of great stories from "the trenches" of some of TV's best writers' rooms. We also talk about everything from how King Lear relates to "Just Shoot Me" to working for the Dionne Warwick Psychic Friends Network to how cats make terrible co-stars to directing Mel Brooks.  MICHAEL JAMIN'S BIO Michael Jamin's first writing assignment was a freelance episode of "Lois & Clark:  The New Adventures of Superman."   The series was responsible for launching the career of Teri Hatcher, as well as ending the career of Dean Cain.  After stints on "Just Shoot Me" and "King of the Hill," he and his partner, Sivert Glarum, sold two sold numerous pilots to HBO and CBS, as well as a pair of movies to 20th Century Fox.  Recently, they served as showrunners on  "Glenn Martin, DDS," a stop-motion animation series starring Kevin Nealon, Catherine O'Hara and Judy Greer.  For two seasons, they resisted the studio's wishes to make the family dog talk, citing artistic integrity.  After the show's cancellation, they quickly sought work on a show about a talking dog:  "Wilfred" on FX. They then returned to their animated roots, writing the series "Brickleberry" for Comedy Central.  They are currently Executive Producing "Maron" a single-camera comedy coming soon to IFC.