Mi3 Audio Edition

This year’s inaugural CMO Awards weren’t just a showcase of Australian marketing leaders doing an excellent job of marketing stewardship and effectiveness. We also introduced the Best Growth Initiative of the Year award, supported by Publicis Groupe, to single out and recognise strategic growth initiatives led by marketing teams. In this podcast episode, we bring together Jenni Dill, CMO of inaugural award winner, Arnott’s Group, with Cath Brands, CMO of highly commended Flintfox International, plus inaugural judge Ty Hayes, former Curtin Uni CMO and founder of Growth Generators, to delve into what it takes to unlock growth that delivers business-grade impact. From first identifying the opportunity, to how they freed up capacity and gained cross-functional buy-in to make it happen, these marketing leaders from very different B2C and B2B worlds shed light on the programs of work that led to success – and importantly, where they had to rethink and pivot. For judges, Arnott’s Gluten Free was a clear winner for Best Growth Initiative of the Year award for its gluten free effort – the most incremental launch the FMCG has had to date. Today, gluten-free biscuits make up approximately 10 per cent of the total biscuit market, with an impressive annual growth rate of 40 per cent. Remarkably, Arnott’s has driven 82 per cent of this growth in the past year alone, chalking up $40 million in sales. “When we got into it, what people really wanted was our biggest, known, loved icons, but gluten-free versions with no taste trade off. So that pretty quickly set our true north,” says Jenni Dill. “That meant a multi-year journey to invest in new bakeries, establish new ways of working, new methods of baking, new ways of going to market, new locations on shelf. It really was a concerted effort, but we also wanted to make sure we weren't waiting two or three years to do something. So we had to get an MVP in the market. We had to start with our simpler products that were easier to get taste equivalent matches to in a gluten-free version. And then everything we did from a marketing perspective, had to make sure that everything was as incremental as it could possibly be.” At Flintfox, meanwhile, the growth opportunity was to take an Australian-made pricing solutions offering into the German, Austrian and Swiss markets. “The team and I had two goes at this,” Cath Brands admits. “In the first attempt, we did it the lazy way – we put a translate button on the website, did some contextual translation of what we did and decided to buy some LinkedIn media. Turns out that that's not how you go to business in Germany. That's not how the Germans play the game.” Take two required an all-encompassing approach: Native product extension, translation and new integrations with SAP, identifying nuanced user and macro conditions, building a market presence from scratch and a go-to-market approach. The result was winning two really big customers in Germany last year worth millions. For Ty Hayes, however different this year’s winner and highly commended brands may be, each identified strategic, innovative, approaches to drive significant net new revenue. “That was either attacking a new category or creating a new category, or entering a new market,” he says. They also demonstrate what Hayes sees as the top three things every growth initiative of substance needs: “Insight, foresight and experimentation”.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Byron Sharp is a distinctive assets maximalist, suggesting how brands look and are recognised and embedded into people’s minds is more important than focusing on what they do differently to rival brands. Mark Ritson argues brands need differentiation to stand out from rivals and pull customers in. News Australia says you need both to drive growth – and that custom-made media that delivers engagement beyond reach is a critical multiplier.News Australia has just wrapped up its nationwide agency engagement roadshow, Frontiers, diving deep with hundreds of agency execs across dozens of workshops to unpack how to cut through and deliver much sharper results amid a comms sea of sameness. The key is moving beyond old-school approaches of tonnage-based reach and the legacy constructs of ‘paid, owned and earned’ media. Case studies for CommBank, NRMA Insurance, Subway and Toblerone strongly suggest the approach is working: Subway notched 3 per cent sales gains; NRMA Insurance and News Australia’s positive influence helped secure $7.2bn in government funding to fix Queensland’s Bruce Highway. Unsurprisingly, more Queenslanders now like NRMA Insurance than before.Now News Australia wants to work with agencies and brands to build better campaigns and more case studies. But that requires a shift in approach to planning and content creation. It’s harder work, says GM of Client Growth & Experience, Renee Sycamore, but powerful results prove “the effort definitely pays off”. The key to achieving “distinctively different” campaigns says Head of Growth Intelligence, Leigh Lavery, is to focus on three critical elements: Making content magnetic (i.e. it gets attention); momentous (i.e. contextually relevant, capturing the zeitgeist) and meaningful (i.e. saying and doing something that adds value to customers). But going against conventional wisdom on mass reach may also be required. As National Head of Digital Strategy and Streaming Dianna Molinaro puts it: “Everyone’s got reach … but what our agency partners and marketers really care about is the impact.” Likewise, everyone has data: “It’s about what we do with it.” Now News Australia is powering custom-made media with behavioural audience signals across the network to connect intent and content. Molinaro says data-driven relevance is where the growth gold lies.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Marketing budgets are declining just as paid media costs are rising – meaning brands get less for every dollar spent, and fewer dollars to start with. But latest research commissioned by The Trade Desk into omnichannel versus multichannel media planning could provide sweet relief. In short, the difference between omnichannel and multichannel planning is that omnichannel campaigns are connected by data and technology from the get-go, whereas multichannel campaigns put ads into different channels one by one. The distinction is subtle – but the disparity in results can be massive. Across UK, US and Australian markets, the research found omnichannel ad campaigns outperform multichannel campaigns on nearly every metric by up to 90 per cent, delivering steep upside for marketing teams in improving the ROI performance of their paid media schedules. It also found that properly linking campaigns across channels significantly reduces the mental load on consumers, and therefore ad fatigue, and drives more conversions, faster. Versus “disconnected” multichannel campaigns, omnichannel campaigns were “one and a half times more persuasive, 50 per cent better at building emotional connection with audiences and 70 per cent better at encoding messages in long-term memory”, according to The Trade Desk Director of Marketing Research and Insights, Sara Picazo. Brands switching to omnichannel approaches also report massive performance gains: Picazo said working with The Trade Desk, IKEA boosted conversions by 339 per cent and cut time to conversion by 10 per cent.Likewise, Nunn Media Head of Digital and Data Lee Foster said brands taking an omnichannel approach are making lasting reductions in performance media costs – one client has cut cost per acquisition by 24 per cent, sustained over a nine-month period. Picazo and Foster urge brands not already harnessing omnichannel approaches to test the theory themselves. But the research also has implications for the way brand and agency planning teams are set up.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

While the numbers have been improving, CMOs still have the shortest tenure in the c-suite globally. Spencer Stuart data shows CMOs in Fortune 500 companies now have average tenure of 4.3 years against a c-suite average of 4.9 years. But variance is huge: Tellingly, Forrester data shows a 75% variance in average CMO tenure across the industries it tracks, with B2B CMOs recording the lowest average tenure, while B2C record the longest. Across the inaugural Australian CMOs of the Year finalists and winners, a list including both c-suite level marketers as well as heads of marketing reporting into divisional or other c-suite leaders, average role tenure came in at a much lower 3 years 3 months.Yet across submissions, several marketing chiefs cited much longer role and company tenure – and delivered stronger marketing effectiveness case studies for it. Three joined us for the latest CMO Awards podcast, powered by Mi3, to reveal how longer tenure has helped them build trust and pursue bolder, more expansive decisions and work: Intrepid’s former chief customer officer and now president of the Americas, Leigh Barnes, Kennard’s Hire GM of marketing and customer, Manelle Merhi, and Patties Foods’ chief marketing and growth officer, Anand Surujpal. The trio agreed: Tenure has seen them flip the switch on marketing as an ego-centric profession focused on delivering individual results – often, as quickly as you can – to putting the brands and business first. All of them are investing in longer-term opportunities and have the confidence to experiment, fail fast, pick up the learnings and progress. As well as sharpening their commercial aptitude, tenure has also opened doors they never would have found the handle on without embedding themselves truly as leaders within their respective organisations. Barnes, who has been with Intrepid for nearly 15 years and took 14th spot in our CMOs of the Year, has spent the last three years orchestrating a transformation of marketing from 90:10 performance-to-brand mix, to 60:40 in favour of brand. It’s been a huge adjustment but results speak volumes: From a $60.7 million loss in 2021 to a $21.8 million net profit, and a $29 million revenue bump from first-time customers in early 2025 alone. “For me, tenure has enabled me to be real, and that gives me the opportunity to say what I think, say when I'm struggling, say when I don't understand something, be vulnerable. But also, when I'm really confident about something, I can say that with gusto, and the business backs and supports that,” Barnes comments. Merhi, who joined Kennards as head of marketing 12 years ago, was 25th in our CMOs of the Year list for her bold work revitalising the sales team, as well as embedding four key customer personas that are driving growth, including its latest commercial segment successes. Today, every Kennard’s branch and employee speaks the language of customer, she says proudly. “I genuinely believe tenure allowed for the trust, for proven capability, for notches on the belt that make people want to sit, listen and be curious in return,” Merhi says.It’s that willingness to back you that’s also helping Surujpal, an eight-year veteran at Patties Foods, to take recently acquired brand, Lean Cuisine, in a completely different direction. He’s also tasked with taking Four ‘N’ Twenty into international markets.“It's the trust of the organisation that you've got this, you’ve done this before. You know you're going to get a few things wrong, but you're going to get more things right than wrong,” he says. “The relationship between myself, my sales counterparts, my CEO, my CFO, is really strong. We've got an incredibly strong business partner relationship.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The marketing funnel doesn’t exist, suggests RAA CMO, Michael Healy. He thinks “too many marketers get too ideological about how you have to do brand and then awareness and then conversion”. He has an interesting anecdote about a $329 knife, his wife, and Meta, to support the theory. Healy says “the vast majority of marketers that I talk to – from startup to enterprise – don't actually have a marketing strategy.” They just have “a plan and a budget”. He recommends reading Richard Rumelt’s Good Strategy, Bad Strategy – and stop treating brand and performance separately. “It's all performance and it's all brand,” per Healy. “Everything is double duty.” Equally, he urges marketers to focus on the metrics that matter: “What is driving business performance?” Tammy Barton, CEO and founder of MyBudget is the brand, literally. Along with its customers, Barton features in its ads. The one time she changed tack, at the suggestion of “one of Australia’s largest agencies”, it backfired. Results tanked and she had to pull the expensive series of TVCs. She put the old ads back on TV “and leads immediately that week went up 15 per cent”. She shot low cost new versions – still using real customers – “and leads went up another 40 per cent”, says Barton. “So you just do whatever works.” MyBudget’s marketing team looks at “hundreds of metrics”, she says. “But the ones that are really important to us are, what is it costing us per lead? What is it costing us per contract? What is it costing us per acquisition, including our sales expense? And we have to look at our lifetime value … versus what are we investing for that cost of acquisition, and what is that ratio? We track that every month.” Atomic 212° co-founder and Chief Digital Officer, James Dixon, thinks media agencies “have been guilty of metric vomit over the years”, spewing data and numbers at clients. Dixon suggests only one “mother metric” is required: MROI – which can stand for marketing return on investment, or, in the media agency context, media return on investment. To underline how media is delivering returns, Atomic 212° has been “doubling down on MMM” with clients, but focusing on media, rather than broader variables within market mix models. RAA’s Healy thinks Dixon “is onto something”, though, “I just don't think it's applicable in all circumstances”. Either way, he backs MyBudget’s Barton: “Just test everything. Whatever works, do that. And if it doesn’t work, get out of it, fast.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lawmakers around the world are setting their sights on ‘dark patterns’, the way consumer choice is manipulated wholesale by companies for profit – either directly by upselling and herding them into higher yielding decisions, or locking them into services, or “data grabs” that can be monetised indirectly. Australia is next off the rank, and businesses should take action now, starting with UX design, according to Chandni Gupta, Deputy CEO of influential think tank the Consumer Policy Research Centre, who’s work underpins key planks of the ACCC’s regulatory overhauls and which holds sway in Canberra.Dark patterns are “entrenched” across the digital economy – with companies “reverse engineering” the “nudge” principles of Daniel Kahneman’s behavioural economics to serve profit rather than help people make better choices, says Gupta. Already, the likes of LinkedIn, Amazon, TikTok, Meta and Epic Games have run afoul of regulators, while ticketing platform StubHub has conducted experiments that show the double-digit profit impact of manipulating consumer choice via hidden costs. Gupta, back from a global tour or regulators, lawmakers and enforcement bodies, and armed with a fresh report on her findings, says the practice is so widespread across the digital economy that most young adults have probably never lived in a world where they are not being manipulated. AI risks “supercharging” the practice – and making dark patterns darker still.But Gupta warns businesses to prepare for regulation, enforcement and redress, with the Australian government committed to a ban on unfair business practices – and a strong overlap between dark patterns and the Privacy overhaul now gearing up for its second act. She sees profit upside for those that overhaul UX design now “to put the person and their wellbeing at the centre” rather than “waiting to be caught”.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Nadia Cameron - Editor - Marketing | Associate Publisher Short CMO tenure, job complexity, unrealistic expectations of delivery – commonly driven by short-term ultimatums – plus a disconnect on the metrics that matter, are all contributing to a dangerously common misalignment between CMOs and their CEOs and CFO. And it’s a recipe for trouble for marketing leaders wanting to enact strategic growth. That’s the view of four luminaries participating in the latest CMO Awards Podcast episode. All know a thing or two not only about providing marketing’s value as CMOs, but also now sit on the other side of the c-suite: ADMA CEO and former FMCG CMO, Andrea Marten; Lounge Lovers CEO and former Aldi and Westpac marketing chief, Samuel Viney; Adobe director of digital strategy group APAC and former Tourism Australia CFO, John Mackenney; and Seek commercial growth APAC leader and former consumer marketing lead for ANZ and customer chief at Mercer, Cambell Holt. There is an ongoing refrain marketing leaders need to do more to build and demonstrate commercial acumen and their value to the c-suite. And we have a fresh report making the point again: In the latest Gartner survey, only 27% of CEOs and CFOs reported their CMO’s performance exceeded expectations over the past year. Confidence in a CMO's ability to prove the value of marketing to the enterprise is held by just half (54%) of senior executives. Gartner’s survey also found only 34% of CEOs and CFOs agree with CMOs on the role of marketing in supporting growth. And only one in five CEOs and CFOs report receiving significant clarity from their CMO regarding marketing accountabilities. They’re sobering figures, and they’re not in isolation. Viney paints an all-too-common “chicken-and-egg” scenario: New CMO comes into an organisation and is confronted with demands to improve marketing’s performance “after the last person didn’t achieve what we expected”. “When asked if you’re going to be able to do it, the CMO will say of course I am, that’s why I’m here,” Viney comments. “What you get then is two challenges: Number one is you're perhaps being unrealistic with the expectations you're setting … secondly, just understanding the metrics that matter in the context of a new organisation, particularly if you're changing sectors, takes time.” As a former CFO, Mackenney agrees there’s a further translation issue between the language of finance and marketing which he’s constantly coming up against in his current role at Adobe – in fact, he often finds himself being the “CFO whisperer” for marketers. But he doesn’t put all the blame on CMOs. “I think it's incumbent on a lot of CFOs to better understand, actually, what are the levers that the CMO has, really, what are the some of the cost drivers and the benefits drivers there, so we can have a better understanding between two really critical roles in the organisation,” he says. Yet Martens points out we're still seeing many CMOs reporting on outputs like campaign performance instead of strategic business outcomes and things like customer growth, retention, margin, contribution, pricing, power and overall business improvement and business performance. “They're the metrics that, at the end of the day, the CEOs and the CFOs are looking for, and they're the metrics that actually influence the total enterprise value. They're the conversations that are not being had,” she says. Holt agrees CMOs need to do a better job of business-grade insight to align their own ability to deliver value. “Early on, I discovered the best way to align yourself and to create mutual understanding is to take on the task of learning someone else's language, then also take on the task of translation within the marketing function. Don't make it the CFOs challenge to learn your language, learn their language and speak it, and train as many people in your function as a marketing leader to speak the other person's language as well.” This CMO Awards podcast series is hosted by Nadia Cameron, associate publisher and editor of marketing at Mi3, plus program leader for the CMO Awards.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Nadia Cameron - Editor - Marketing | Associate Publisher At its core, the job of the CMO is to deliver business growth. And if Mi3’s story on marketing jobs recently and what company CEOs want in their marketing hires in 2025 is anything to go by, there is a recalibration back to topline growth rather than just pure cost cutting and efficiency, coming our way – good news for marketers, it seems. Yet companies are increasingly favouring alternative job titles, such as chief growth officer and chief customer officer, or creating new functional structures and ways of working to set the north star and signal the need for disruptive, transformational growth. At the same time, diversity of marketing remits makes it difficult to understand what levers marketing chiefs will actually control in their pursuit of growth for a business. In episode three of the CMO Awards podcast, powered by Mi3, three marketing and business luminaries with the mantle of delivering net new approaches to growth, share how they define and pursue that ambition: Lion co-MD and former chief growth officer and CMO, Anubha Sahasrabuddhe; SiteMinder chief growth officer, Trent Innes; and recently installed McCain growth marketing director and former Chobani GM of growth, Olivia Dickinson. All agree putting ‘growth’ front and centre in job titles sends an unambiguous message as to a company’s intent to pursue new growth opportunities, the whole-of-organisation approach required to get there, and the disruptive nature of what is required. It’s also given each executive the power to make the hard decisions necessary to deliver sustainable growth. In Lion’s case, generational shifts around beer consumption provided a burning platform for change, while in organisations such as Chobani, pursuing agility in product innovation pipelines, again with the aim of following consumer trends, created the path to new growth – even amid fears of cannibalising existing SKUs. For Innes at Australian hotel management software-as-a-service company, SiteMinder, growth is encapsulated in the phrase ‘win, love and grow’. “It's not just a simple case of winning them. You actually need to love them. And if you actually do that, you have the opportunity to grow with them.” It’s this thinking that has Innes suggesting marketers too commonly fall into the trap of generating short-term demand instead of thinking about customer lifetime value. “I think marketing has fallen a bit too much into the ‘we're here to create demand’ position… Growth is not demand, it's not sales. It is a team sport, so it has to be across the entire end in business.” Which is why Innes advises marketers to think like a CEO and to “try to get outside of your lane and think about the broader business … How does the broader business look at marketing, and what role do you play in growth?” he asks. “For marketing leaders moving forward to remain relevant, they're going to have to start thinking like that.” Dickinson describes growth in three words: “Bold, strategic choices … we're talking bold bets, sharp focus, but really importantly, knowing when to walk away if it doesn't serve the bigger picture,” she says. Ensuring employees understand Lion’s growth investment is about delivering for future generations is not a won-and-done job, but requires ongoing productivity hunting, is another must for Sahasrabuddhe. “That really helps change your mindset when you are faced with going through the tough choices,” she says. “And there are plenty of tough choices, but they're in service of growth, which gives you a very clear why.” This CMO Awards podcast series is hosted by Nadia Cameron, associate publisher and editor of marketing at Mi3, plus program lead for the CMO Awards. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Nadia Cameron - Editor - Marketing | Associate Publisher Being able to convince others is the most critical skill marketers need to possess – the whole job of marketing is to influence consumers to consider then purchase your brand, after all. But as marketers progress into senior management positions, they also need to get better at getting team members as well as executive leadership and internal stakeholders onside. In episode 2 of The CMO Awards podcast series, powered by Mi3, three leading marketing chiefs who exhibit influence in spades tell us how they’ve done it: Former Google director of marketing ANZ, Aisling Finch, Tourism Australia CMO, Susan Coghill, and Creative Australia executive director of development and partnerships and former ABC director of audiences, Leisa Bacon. For Finch, who spent 13 years with Google, advocating for the local market to global stakeholders was a daily job. Having started with an Australia-first advocacy approach, picking and choosing the metrics that told the story she wanted to tell, she switched a blunt instrument for nuanced engagement and putting herself in the listener’s shoes. “I found it actually quite a disarming strategy to almost go the opposite way of advocacy and say to people: ‘Okay, so we're 55th in population in the world, why are you even spending time with me?’ It’s almost that underdog card. But then you build a bit of credibility – you bring data, bring empathy… and you start to build a story. It's quite disarming and builds trust when you say, ‘interesting, we’re 55th in terms of population, but guess what, we’re 13th on GDP. And look at the willingness of consumers to spend on smartphones, or content,” she says. “Putting yourself in their shoes, being empathetic, and bringing in data without over advocating – I found that to be more effective.” That, and sharing the odd Tim Tam, she quips. Being honest and sharing bad news early is another must CMOs agree on. Coghill, has a “no surprises” rule she applies from team to CEO, finance team, and corporate affairs. “I joke with them I am still a Catholic school girl and feel the need to confess everything and bring everybody into the tent,” she jokes. “But it has served me well, and it has kept my colleagues well informed and able to help me when and where I've needed it.” It’s a similar philosophy for Bacon. “In media – and especially the ABC – you are so heavily scrutinised, you have to be transparent about the good and bad all the time,” she comments. “I would apply that going forward to every job I would do. Transparency builds credibility, it builds trust, but it also is just a good way of working.” Bacon adds: “You can’t actually have influence without credibility, and you need to do things to actually build credibility”. This CMO Awards podcast series is hosted by Nadia Cameron, associate publisher and editor of marketing at Mi3, plus program leader for the CMO Awards.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Oxford University Associate Professor Felipe Thomaz was a runaway Mi3 hit last year with a peer-reviewed paper that smashes the economics and relevance of audience reach. His analysis – based on 1,000 campaigns and a million customer journeys via Kantar and Wavemaker data – finds blunt use of reach will not deliver business outcomes, because not all reach is equal. Business outcomes was all the talk at the Future of TV Advertising last week, with industry backing the build of a real-time dashboard via Adgile Media to map and measure impressions delivered to hard results close to real-time. Thomaz thinks it’s a start but warns industry risks falling into a “trap” of short-term skew, essentially applying performance metrics to a brand channel. “That worries me,” per Thomaz. “We know from decades of existing research that the long-term impact of advertising is twice the short-term impact of advertising.” But that doesn’t mean industry shouldn’t build it. Per Thomaz, “It's definitely the right path, and we can do this, but we cannot stop there. This is low hanging fruit. You start there, start measuring and say, ‘look, I'm getting outcomes’ … But you cannot ignore the fact that the future exists.” However, he thinks if industry builds it – and keeps building – it could pay off. “If you're eating low hanging fruit and everybody else is eating off the floor, you're golden.” Meanwhile Thomaz thinks agencies could be the key to cracking the code on moving beyond reach and into outcomes because they have enough visibility on pool of clients and, potentially, their data. He says one big global brand owner that has in-housed most of its media is finding exactly the same thing as his paper suggests – and making major gains as a result. Thomaz says that code is all outlined in his paper – and any agency can lift it. “They literally can just go steal the code and run.” Now he’s working on another paper – aiming to prove the impact of different media channels and beyond – including touchpoints like “customer service and salespeople and their effectiveness in driving different outcomes” within different categories. “This is interesting for the people that own those channels, because suddenly they're not competing just on audience size – they're competing on value derived from that audience,” says Thomaz. “That is what media owners are going to be really interested in: Can I charge more for an impression on my platform for this client because they'll get 6x the return [versus another channel].”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was the sudden declines in footy audiences that did it for Suncorp Executive Manager of Media, Greg Kearney and OMD Chief Media Partnerships Officer, Marelle Salib. They knew that diehard sports fans don’t just ditch their teams overnight. But Kearney and Salib had years’ worth of market mix model (MMM) data that countered the volatile numbers coming from OzTAM back in 2023. Those zero ratings, or “doughnuts” per Foxtel Media boss Mark Frain, preceded the split between the pay TV provider and the free-to-air TV networks on measurement, with Foxtel Media breaking away to use Kantar to validate its own return path data from a million subscribers. Digging deeper showed that the ratings were way off for a slew of shows, “and clients were asking what was going on”, per Salib. No measurement system can ever be 100 per cent perfect all of the time, she acknowledges, but OMD has been running Kantar and its own client MMM data in parallel: “What we're seeing is the performance of things like sports sponsorships are remaining stable, and that is a really good indicator of performance … The Kantar data set appears to be really robust,” says Salib. While Suncorp has a sophisticated approach to media investment, Kearney says reach remains a “crucial” input. “We need to know where the audience is, and it's changing so rapidly. If you don't know that, you're significantly behind the eight ball. And secondly, audience numbers are a huge part of the cost equation,” he says. “If you don't get that right, the inputs into your market mix models are going to be off … and you're never going to have a good view on your business outcomes.” Foxtel’s Frain acknowledges the move from one measurement system to another is “pretty challenging” for the industry, but says breaking away and enabling Foxtel Media to plug its pipes into multiple data sources and market mix models “is the best thing we have ever done”. Plus, it gets the pay TV provider closer to closing the loop on how media investment actually delivers a business result. Now Frain’s aiming to plug in more data sources.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four’N Twenty pies are literally baked-in to footy and Patties Food Group marketing boss Anand Surujpal gets a related proposition across his desk every week. But his challenge is to grow share through new buyers beyond “diehard footy fans” and tradies. So when the prop for the Paris Olympics landed, Surujpal saw an opportunity for a bigger demographic slice of the action by mashing live Olympics content with ads in real-time via QMS’ digital out of home network. The results were meaty: “When the campaign went live, we had unit sales lifts of up to 30 per cent,” says Surujpal. “This is on a big brand with distribution, awareness, trial, recognition.” Even better, “We've actually retained the consumers and maintained the growth … It’s had a big halo effect.” Strategy chief Christian Zavecz says QMS wanted to match Australia’s athletes in “pushing the boundaries of what can be achieved” while “bringing big brands and Australians together through the unifying power of sport”. Plus, the Olympics provided the perfect platform to prove digital out-of-home is now a broadcast medium that can deliver real-time creative responses – and results. So QMS, TBWA and Patties Food Group pulled out all the stops to make it happen. “We had a 24/7 newsroom that worked really closely with our tech team. We had a custom-built dynamic content optimisation platform that enabled us to continually publish real-time branded content featuring everything from medal moments to breaking news and live metal tallies, along with what to watch coming up,” says Zavecz. The results speak for themselves – Surujpal admits it’s opened his eyes to just how far digital out-of-home has advanced. “It has changed my perception of the medium. To have speed and accuracy, being relevant immediately, I think that's a powerful tool.” QMS now has the Milano Cortina Winter Olympics just around the corner.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Nadia Cameron, Editor - Marketing | Associate Publisher Amid all the hype, excitement and trepidation around digital, marketing automation, data utilisation and now AI coming into marketing, is the very real need to build team capability and empowerment to actually use the tools effectively – and in a way that delivers business outcomes. As Infosys global CMO, Sumit Virmani, told Mi3 recently: “As AI is a very new technology, it can be a big challenge for teams at large to embrace because they don’t know how to do it. Educating them in the process of embracing AI, on the tools, and actually making investments in your team to get them the comfort to experiment, is the responsibility of a marketing leadership team.” But it’s not just tech changing the shape of marketing execution. New channels and connectivity to customer – as well as higher expectations of said customer – are demanding marketers build a diverse range of brand, people and specialist skill sets. Then there’s the relentless scrutiny of marketing effectiveness and budgets requiring ever stronger commercial nous. Mi3 and the AMI’s Marketing & Customer Benchmarks FY2023 Outlook report last June of 105 Chief Marketing, Customer and Growth Officers highlighted the changes they’re preparing for – team structures and shifting KPI’s among them, with customer lifetime value metrics surging for many. All this makes it imperative marketing teams run continuous learning and capability development loops. Two CMOs striving for this are Freedom Furniture’s Jason Piggott and Wesfarmers Health’s Corrina Brazel. Quick to jump into the Australian Marketing Institute’s new skills assessment tool, 12 months after the launch of its Competency Framework, both see a need for more formalised learning programs that don’t just cover new specialist skills, but can also improve core marketing knowledge across their teams. While the AMI’s Competency Framework provides those foundations and learning structures, the assessment tool is about having productive, proactive conversations with teams while also holding up a mirror to your own strengths and weaknesses, both say. Per AMI CEO, Bronwyn Heys: “Modern marketers need to be bench ready. They need to be ready for anything – for the market, for the consumer.” No less keen to pursue learning rigour is REA Group, whose GM of audience and marketing, Sarah Myers, says has a “very feedback hungry culture” and commitment to deep, specialist skills. A one-size-fits-all program, however, hasn’t been the right option, nor has a pure marketing strain to capability development. Instead, the company has been building out an internal university that recognises certain skills as important across the business. Tune into this latest Mi3 podcast episode as we unpack the pros and cons of skills assessment, specialist versus generalist capability building, and how marketing leaders encourage continuous learning across their teams from the bottom up – while also not forgetting to skill up themselves.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

SCA has spent four years building its uber-app LiSTNR from idea to the fulcrum of its audio business. It’s got 2.25m logged-in users, knows their postcodes – handy ahead of the federal election – what they listen to and what they might want to hear next. Kelly says acquisition is no longer core focus – “we’ve got the base we wanted to get” – and SCA is moving to kill churn, now at a record low. “We’re approaching 70 per cent retention per month,” says Kelly. “For every percentage point of reduction in churn, we are seeing about a half million dollar increase in revenues on platform on an annual basis.” Personalisation and discovery are powering those churn reductions while boosting time spent listening, per Kelly. Next he sees massive opportunity in regional markets to take that further – for SCA, its advertisers and other radio businesses. Kelly points to a streaming deal it struck with Victoria broadcaster ACE Radio as a template for a triple win. Bringing the broadcaster’s streams into LiSTNR, says Kelly, gave ACE an incremental revenue stream while boosting inventory and audiences for SCA. “They've seen about a 30 per cent increase in their audience levels listening on LiSTNR,” per Kelly. “And with the introduction of ACE, we’ve seen about a 20 per cent increase in monthly listening on our platform, which is pretty incredible.” Plus, SCA is driving those new audiences into its other programs and podcasts, meaning bigger numbers to sell, at higher CPMs. “We'll be speaking to other broadcasters, and particularly the regional network groups, to see if we can provide that service to them,” says Kelly. “We are the largest regional audio business in Australia. 73 per cent of the regional audience comes through either SCA-owned or represented – stations like ACE – so we've got great scale. We haven't yet tapped into that regional audience in a meaningful way. But that's the next opportunity for LiSTNR. Plus, regional consumption levels per user outpace their metro counterparts – and Kelly thinks they are a chink in the global platforms’ armour. “The big digital companies, the Metas, haven't played in that regional space. So our ability to work with major blue chip companies to actually access those particular customers – the appetite is insatiable. We can't get enough inventory from those regional markets, which is why the ACE partnership has been so successful. There's a huge opportunity.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Paul McIntyre | Executive Editor Media agency holding company CEOs are openly acknowledging the importance of arbitrage-based principal trading to their business models – and it’s spreading rapidly out of digital display into TV, audio, digital out of home, connected TVs and beyond. Former UM Global Chief Media Officer Joshua Lowcock, who left the IPG-owned media agency network last year to head up media at US group Quad, is bleak on the distorting market effects of holding companies buying media for themselves and on-selling to advertiser clients with handsome mark-ups - often in ‘bundled’ products which blend a small quota of quality inventory with the tonnage more in low value, low quality ad placements. “Both agencies and clients have built themselves a prison that they can't get out of,” says Lowcock. And agencies resisting principal models are increasingly disadvantaged – they risk being dragged into “financial engineering” too. Per Lowcock, “somewhere in the myriad of complexity of a holding company, I can tell you it's occurring and a large armoured vehicle with boatloads of cash is pulling up somewhere and unloading it into a holding company … well, it's probably more electronically transferred.” Should anyone care that agencies are finding ways to make money that procurement-driven clients are in effect incentivising by refusing to pay fees for service – especially if the media bought and on-sold arguably does the job? “It's not doing the job because clients are not getting the media that they should be getting to drive the ultimate business performance,” Lowcock argues. "They’re getting the media that drives the agency's bottom line,” per Lowcock. He describes it as a nutritionist advising a diet of “junk food”, with clients at risk of morbid obesity. Indy shop Media by Mother, headed by former GroupM exec Dave Gaines, says he doesn’t do principal media deals or arbitrage but “it’s surprisingly hard to get people to align on business success outcomes” versus the short-term allure of trading off not paying media agency fees for the hidden costs in mark-ups and tech and data fees typically wrapped into principal media agreements. Moreover, Gaines says retail media is making the situation worse with retailers becoming media owners and seeking their own preferential deals. While traditional media owners complain about principal media trading eating their margin and agency mark-ups making them appear expensive, Gaines says the truth is, “a lot of the big TV networks don't like to have to deal directly with clients. They're happy to offload a lot of this media inventory because then they haven't got to worry about selling it”. Either way, few owners will complain publicly for fear of retribution, i.e. being cut out of group spend, per Nick Manning, non-executive chairman of Media Marketing Compliance and adviser to peak US advertiser body the ANA. Manning sees principal media’s rise leading holdcos to becoming just the same as the walled gardens whose business models they are trying to emulate. “They're all building AI tools that will do creative production, media distribution and analytics together in one in one box. It will be a black box, and clients won't be able to tell a lot about what's going on in there, but it will be an arbitrage-led model.” Quad’s Lowcock says he’s happy to tell any finance, procurement, marketing, legal and internal auditing department “all the answers” as to what goes on and how to fix it – and does just that in this podcast.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four years ago, Flight Centre’s global CMO Megan Henderson was tasked with leading a sweeping restructure of Flight Centre’s worldwide marketing operation – centralising five teams into one while overhauling its martech stack and contracts and simultaneously finding efficiencies and growth. Daunting. But Henderson knew that Fight Centre’s 60 million annual unique online visitors, broad customer comms channels yielding rich first party data plus circa 400 physical stores could help drive the business into fresh territory – adjacent travel market services beyond flights – while generating revenue via owned media packaged and sold to new and existing brand partners. Enter owned media valuations specialist, Sonder, which dived deep to benchmark and calculate the value of each and all of Flight Centres channels and assets – and highlight where it could go next as an owned media network. Now Henderson aims to make Flight Centre a global case study in how customers, data, physical and digital footprint combine to drive growth, revenue, profit and cross-funnel, cross-category expansion – while landing new paying partners. It’s now rolling out screens across all stores to boost brand building capability and link it through to first party data-powered conversion. “Having Sonder shine a light on what we could be doing with our digital screens has really fast-tracked the process for us to make sure that our stores have a minimum of two digital screens that I can use for brand advertising with all kinds of partners,” says Henderson. She’s now ensuring partners think of Flight Centre “as a mass market retailer with millions of customers online and in store… and see that as an opportunity that they can't get with a standard media buying mix.” Sonder co-founder, Jonathan Hopkins, says that’s the key takeout for businesses currently leaving money on the table by overlooking their owned media channels and assets: “There is vast opportunity out there. If you have a website, store network, an email program with a sizeable customer base, then you're more than halfway there to building an owned media proposition to leverage through your own marketing and with brand partners,” says Hopkins. “It’s all about seizing the opportunity.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mi3’s most read story of 2024 came via an Oxford University marketing scientist’s peer-reviewed paper underlining precisely why not all reach is equal. Based off analysis of 1,000-plus campaigns and a million customer journeys via Kantar and Wavemaker, the data shows optimising for reach alone rarely tallies with business growth. In fact, in almost all cases, per Saïd Business School Associate Professor Felipe Thomaz, it delivers “really mediocre outcomes”. That’s the collective market failure News Australia aims to address – at least the start of it, with ‘Engaged Reach’, which counters the current industry bias for chasing fleeting user volumes for shallow scale. News Australia’s Lou Barrett, Dean La Rosa and Jess Gilby unpack how it’s already working for Mars Petcare, Chemist Warehouse, Inspiring Vacations and Subway, the latter a benchmark win for the publisher in QSR after Subway’s CMO said News Australia’s custom-built, integrated program outplayed the big tech platforms and landed the entire Subway initiative. The “all assets” rollout rapidly notched 3 per cent sales growth after a single campaign for Subway. The trio also underline why News Australia’s partnership with free streaming service Tubi – Barrett aims to rapidly double its monthly audience towards 3 million – means it can map buyer intent signals from the content audiences are reading to the shows they are watching. Plus tell advertisers where their best targets can be found around the clock, what they are interested in and how to engage them to maximise results.News Australia feeds circa 2.5 billion monthly intent signals into its CDP, enabling marketers to target audiences across 7,000 segments, using AI to hit sweet spots that might not be immediately obvious, per La Rosa. “It will forecast, it will understand the size, the scale, the relevance.” As Gilby underlines: “Everyone's got data, but it's about how you use it, how you apply it, and how you can be creative with it … We’re going from efficiently reaching audiences to effectively engaging them.” Somewhere in Oxford, a professor will be nodding in agreement.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to the first in our CMO Awards podcast series, powered by Mi3. This limited-episode series dives into the key topics and issues making up how marketing as a function, and its leaders, contribute to growth. To do this, we’re engaging in a select number of conversations with industry luminaries, CMO Awards judges, former CMO50 winners, current and former marketing and customer leaders and more as we lead into, then recognise the winners of our inaugural CMO Awards on 7 May. This podcast is brought to you by platinum CMO Awards 2025 sponsor, Adobe. Kicking us off to talk about how marketing elevates its stature in the eyes of the CEO and board are three of this year’s CMO Awards judges: Former Westfield CMO and non-exec board director, John Batistich; former Audi chief marketing and customer officer and now non-exec director, Nikki Warburton; and executive and board recruitment partner and one-time Kimberly Clark CMO, Michele Phillips. All three have the unique ability to see it from both sides: As former marketers plying the trade, and now as non-executive board directors or in board and CEO-level recruitment. Channel and audience fragmentation, too much data, relentless transformation across organisations, dour economic conditions, ever-more pressure to prove marketing’s worth, too much efficiency while trying to find more effectiveness and ever-higher demands for technology competence – these are just a few of the things CMOs are navigating. For many, it can feel like they don’t have enough control of what’s happening to their function while they look to execute their craft with excellence. And admitting something was less than a success feels like certain doom. View it from the other side, however, and you get a rather different picture of what marketing needs to do to win respect. CEOs and Boards are needing to do more with less to find profitable growth, investor and financial markets are relentless, and business, cyber and market risk factors have multiplied. These execs want marketing leaders who can make hard and strategic choices, and judge them as much on what they choose to do as much as what they say no to. All while telling a realistic but progressive story of customer and market engagement. This series is hosted by Nadia Cameron, associate publisher and editor of marketing at Mi3, plus program leader for the CMO Awards.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mim Haysom’s world-beating, Cannes-winning One House initiative at Suncorp in 2022 was a big bold bet on innovative, mould-breaking marketing that Suncorp’s executive leadership and board only saw days before a documentary on the initiative was set to broadcast on Nine. “The first time the board saw One House, I took them into the auditorium and played them the 26-minute documentary three nights before it was going live on Channel Nine,” says Suncorp’s Executive GM, Brand & Customer Experience. “The accountability for creativity stops with me … I set myself up that way from the get-go.” Haysom is also the person who tells the CFO she needs incremental money for performance media – and not to siphon it out of brand. “Insurance search terms [at peak cost of living crunch] were 50 per cent up year on year. They are about 35 per cent up now. With that there is opportunity to pump more money into search to capture demand. So, I've absolutely been doing that,” she says. “But what I've been doing is writing business cases to say … we don’t touch brand … because if you haven't got that awareness, consideration, if you're not building trust in your brand – especially in insurance – then people won't convert in the lower levels anyway.” Legendary adman Sir John Hegarty couldn’t agree more. “The trouble is we live in a bubble called commerce, and the people out there don't – they live in a world called ‘engage me, entertain me’,” he says. It’s a challenge Val Morgan Cinema’s Guy Burbidge has been wrestling with for cinema. There’s an "awful lot more measurement conversations” which Burbidge says is a "good thing ... but it’s an increasingly binary conversation about reach and cost and not the power of a [media] platform and creativity. “We've gone down too much science, arguably, with too many ones and zeros and cost and reach and algorithms. The next piece of work for us is talking to the creative community to understand how do you take advantage of those cultural moments created by movies and cinema as they come up.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A world first creative benchmarking study from System1 and JCDecaux has run stacks of Australian Out-of-Home ads through its globally-renowned effectiveness scoring system and drawn a stark conclusion: 70 per cent of outdoor ads fail to move the needle. Andrew Tindall, SVP – Global Partnerships at System1, goes even further: “No-one understands how Out-of-Home works,” he says, particularly the critical need to land the brand within two seconds. At face value, not a wholly positive headline for the medium. But System1 has come up with a formula that, its data strongly suggests, massively improves effectiveness. It’s not rocket science. For example, just placing your logo at the top of an Out-of-Home ad increases brand recognition four times versus a logo parked at the bottom. Likewise be consistent – entertaining and never boring – and keep messaging simple and positive to get much higher brand lift, and ultimately, sales. On that front, Tindall says there is a false divide between brand and performance campaigns: The long, i.e. brand, always drives the short, i.e. performance. The research with JCDecaux, “allows us to add a lot more nuance to what is a very non-nuanced industry” and underlines why brand and demand “need to be brought back a little bit closer together”. Brands nailing Out-of-Home effectiveness locally include Compare the Market with its Meerkats, Uber Eats with the Wiggles and Simon Cowell, Specsavers and Ocean Spray, per Tindall. Sephora’s latest campaign, he says, is one of the highest scoring Out-of-Home ads System1 has ever tested. The bottom line? “The single standout thing for me in this research is it confirms that creative is the make and break of how effective a campaign can be.” Tindall, plus JCDecaux’s Cris Smart and Scott Jenkins, unpack the research’s key findings – and the seven simple steps to massively boost Out-of-Home effectiveness.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Host: Andrew Birmingham, Editor - CX | Martech | Ecom Two years after a Mi3 published a comprehensive analysis of the customer data market in Australia, we revisited many of the brands we spoke with to assess their progress and measure their return. Companies that have persevered are realising strong returns and extending beyond their early use cases. But it has often been a hard road to hoe. There are integration and organisational challenges to overcome - and unexpected problems such as bill shock from unanticipated quarterly charges that can run into tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars. As to the market, it’s more competitive than ever with the number of CDP vendors active in Australia rising significantly even though the volume of tenders has largely held the line, according to industry insiders. That means competition is heating up. There are three macro trends – the rise of composable CDPs - we’ll explain that later - and greater CIO control over data infrastructure amid a backdrop of three-year software renewals rolling over and the need to accurately assess ROI for a technology that is often hard to assign direct value against. Rich McFarland from Compare Club, Courtney Gerrits from the University of Tasmania, and Cam Strachan from Southern Cross Austereo dive deeply into the detail, discussing their experience with their own CDP implementations, describing the tangible benefits gained, such as improved customer acquisition costs, enhanced communication strategies, and increased operational efficiencies…there’s a few lessons they learned along the way to boot too. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Rival radio networks are transplanting big talent from Sydney and trying to make it work in Melbourne. SCA Chief Content Officer, Dave Cameron, is taking the opposite strategy. Local talent that “speaks the language of the city” and gets the “fabric” of its suburbs is particularly crucial for breakfast audiences, he says. Plus, as platforms and content globalise, localism becomes a competitive advantage: “Anti-globalism will pay dividends for us … otherwise we’re playing the same game as everyone else.” Hence SCA launching six new shows, pairing fresh local talent with station “juggernauts” while focusing harder on radio’s core heartlands – like Western Sydney, where massive audiences and engagement are found. “That is where the bulk of radio listening, the bulk of audience data and surveys, is happening,” per Cameron. “It's not happening in Bondi.” SCA is laser-focused on growing audiences and revenues without blowing holes in the budget that could later prove problematic. Content economics are underpinned by sharpened appetite for advertiser integration – with those commercial discussions happening upfront and early. “We’ve never been more commercially savvy around that,” says Cameron. Seeking new audiences via greener talent and formats could risk dislocating “rusted-on” loyalists, Cameron acknowledges. “But we believe in the combinations we’ve put together,” he says. “If you're not investing in fresh thinking, talent and voices, your industry may become irrelevant.” Plus, there’s growing evidence to suggest a younger set is discovering the analogue dial – either through nostalgia, or as a reaction to algorithmic overreach. The next year will test SCA’s strategy, but Cameron’s confident audiences will hold and then grow. The alternative is to keep hoping the world doesn’t change, or emulate the metro lift and shift being attempted by rivals. Can that transplant strategy pay off, given time to bed-in? “That’s a $200 million question,” says Cameron. SCA is staking out a different numbers game.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nico Neumann is deep in the weeds on digital marketing attribution, market mix modelling [MMM] and incrementality testing – likewise the dangers of narrow audience targeting and junk user data - the latter a $20bn market in the US alone. The Melbourne Business School Associate Professor in 2019 published research proving that closing your eyes and randomly selecting male or female audience targets was more accurate than the data brokers and DSPs many advertisers buy from. Neumann claims a senior data broker admitted to him privately that they knew their data was crap, “but who cares? Marketers are buying this”. (Like Arielle Garcia, UM’s former US privacy lead who last year told Mi3 she had accessed her data profile from multiple third party brokers with laughable results, Neumann has downloaded his own, “and it’s hilarious”. You should do the same - we’ve got a URL in our Mi3 feature to test your profile segments). Neumann batted away claims his B2C audience studies were too broad and challenged widely held assumptions that niche segments and B2B were where precision targeting of online users actually works. Last year he ran tests with IT giant HP - a paper is coming - that sharply contests most B2B marketing plans and particularly so for tech sector practitioners. “No matter what we used, it was either equal to random targeting, or even worse,” says Neumann. First party data is better, per Neumann, but there are caveats, particularly around clean rooms and matches that can be bogus. He advises marketers to upload made up email addresses and see what they get back - hashed user 'match rates’ may not be what they seem. His advice: stick with the first and second party data you can trust, but even then, don’t assume targeting will deliver better bang for buck. “I would even take a step back and ask, do you need to target that narrowly? There are very few cases where it makes sense … Why do you even need to exclude people and increase the cost, instead of just letting the content or message do that?” Neumann sees the explosion of market mix modelling and measurement approaches as “a good thing”. But there are market rumblings that the big platforms pushing MMMs risk skewing towards inherent model biases. Either way, Neumann’s working on a project to compare how all the main MMMs hitting the market actually perform. He urges marketers to question all models – and his advice for those emerging from business schools is the same as for seasoned CMOs: Hone fundamentals that will last a lifetime; don’t overspecialise in trends and fads. “Ask hard questions – and just test stuff yourself.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four Pillars Gin is now four times the size of the entire Australian premium gin category when it started in 2013. Much of the category’s explosive growth is down to three cofounders having a crack, while seeing off the cops, who thought they were making meth. Now under Lion’s ownership, itself part of Japanese drinks giant Kirin, two of the founders – ex-Olympian Cameron Mackenzie and PR man Stuart Gregor – have “gracefully” exited. But the third founding partner, former global strategy boss at IPG’s Jack Morton Worldwide, Matt Jones, is still in. He thinks Australia deserves a global spirits business spearheaded by botanical alchemy, experience, craft, influence and intimacy over mass “shotgun messaging”. Jones is also a reluctant martech convert, valuing old school customer experience and its intangibles over measuring clicks and other marketing metrics. He likewise places far greater value on flywheels than marketing funnels. While the direct-to-consumer growth hacking playbook that fuelled start-ups a decade ago is now a relic of its time, Jones thinks many of the Four Pillars lessons and tricks are repeatable today for those that distil the fundamentals. But there are some key differences. Here’s his take on what made the business succeed and where Four Pillars – and Lion’s expanding spirits business – goes next.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When experienced B2B marketer and former agency planner Taz Bareham decided to take on the title of 'Fractional CMO' three years ago, there were a handful of people on LinkedIn using the moniker. Fast forward to today, and the supply pipeline has grown to thousands, even outpacing solidly growing demand for these forms of executives. Why? Better work / life balance, avoiding burnout, a desire to stick with the craft of marketing instead of moving into non-exec or CEO roles, plus more opportunity to try another category and industry are just some of the reasons experienced marketers are being lured in. “I get back to go to back to the joy of being a CMO versus sinking under the pressure of being a CMO,” Bareham says. There are plenty of reasons for why businesses are turning to this emerging executive gig economy too. Cost efficiency is inevitably one, and Deloitte has noted companies can save up to 50 per cent by getting in fractional execs over full-time equivalents [FTE]. It's also a way for scale-ups to access marketing and other senior leadership talent they otherwise couldn't afford, and have the helping hand of specialist or generalist expertise they don't have on the existing team. “In that tech space, where I focus, words like profitability and runway are now back in vogue after 10 years of kind of being in the wilderness,” says Zac King, founder of The Fractional Exec Community. “The ability to pick up a senior exec or senior marketer who's been there, done that, got the scars to prove it, and to do it in a really flexible and targeted way just makes sense.” Then there's the flexibility – fractional execs can be a liquid workforce, something to turn on and off, to help build or support strategy and teams as an organisation matures, operationalise capability, go-to-market expertise and get to commercial impact quicker. It's certainly how US-based founding partner of CMO Syndicate, Shayne de La Force, and his army of 21 CMOs across six countries operate. And in marketing specifically, complexity and breadth of remit can make it incredibly difficult to find a CMO who can do all you need. It's why Tumbleturn launched its fractional CMO service in 2024. “What we found is the remit so broad, you have either very strong, strategic CMO, or generally, more often than not, a strong operational CMO,” says partner, Anthony Gregorio. “But rarely do you find that unicorn who is very comfortable playing in both spaces.” In this episode, hosted by Mi3's Nadia Cameron, we take a deep dive into the real-life experience of being a fractional exec, what it means for the wider marketing fraternity, and how dominant fractional executive workforces will become.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The upside of market mix modelling (MMM) is it “certainly helps with credibility,” when proving marketing's return on investment, per Optus consumer marketing boss Cam Luby. The downside is that it spits out a shedload of data. Hence Mutinex combining its real-time MMM platform with an AI-powered co-pilot called Hendren to hep marketers more easily interrogate and interpret the data with prompts – and shortcuts next best actions. Optus' marketing team is already putting it to work. “The MMM gives us the opportunity to understand something we previously couldn't; Hendren gives us the ability to understand that faster and make decisions quicker. It puts the data we have to better use,” says Luby. “It facilitates a really valuable discussion about the outputs that we should expect from marketing and puts it in terms that matters to the business. Our finance team … they're not really that interested in buying media. They're interested in the outcome for the business.” Using Mutinex's MMM has enabled Optus' marketing team to prove hypotheses and adjust channel allocation as a result, “and that's yielded increases for us,” says Luby. Michael Hill CMO, Jo Feeney, is about to plug in the Mutinex platform and will use the first model as a “performance review ... to make sure that every dollar we're spending is being spent in the right place, and it's actually paying back”. Plus, she aims to demonstrate that generating retail sales requires a little more than lower funnel performance tactics and offers. Likewise “myth busting” some misconceptions that may be held by management, such as “no-one watches TV anymore”. More broadly, Feeney wants to prove marketing's P&L contribution over any perception of marketing as a cost centre. After that, Feeney's keen to prove the value of Michael Hill's rapidly growing loyalty scheme – now at 2.5m members – and the dollar value of its owned channels versus paid media. “I've got some early data, but to be able to put that through a model like this as well would be amazing.” Mutinex's Will Marks says “repointing” Mutinex's GrowthOS engine to do exactly that is top priority for 2025, alongside “supercharging our forecasting and optimisation capability so that we can help marketers get to different scenarios faster and easier” – and with deeper granularity on what's really going on within channels.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Australian law firm Maurice Blackburn is investigating a publisher class action against Google in a strikingly similar $8 billion lawsuit already underway in Canada – led by a tiny regional community publishing boss, Lisa Sygutek, who won't be cowed. “Find your inner warrior, sign-up, go for it,” she urges Australian media owners. Miranda Nagy, the lawyer leading the Australian class action investigation, likewise calls on publishers large and small to join the proposed action. She's aiming to secure “best possible” retrospective compensation. Maurice Blackburn has come to the same conclusion as the US Department of Justice, various European regulators, and a dozen US state attorneys general. They allege Google manipulated and gamed publishers and brands for years with secret deals and projects – some in collusion with Meta – that actively sought to disadvantage them while entrenching Google's market dominance – taking billions of dollars away from publishers and fleecing advertisers in the process by charging far more than was either necessary or officially disclosed. The alleged ruses include things like ‘project Bernanke', in which Google was essentially able to “to take a bigger spread between publishers and advertisers, which means both publishers are getting less money and advertisers are paying more,” according to Adil Abdulla, the lawyer leading the Canadian legal effort through Sotos Class Actions. Then there was ‘Jedi Blue', in which Google is accused of colluding with Facebook to kill the free market publishers and the broader ad market had tried to build through header bidding, while ensuring Facebook got an ad auction advantage in return. Jason Kint, CEO of US peak publisher body Digital Content Next, says Jedi Blue's impacts “are still playing out” and forecasts “a bloodbath of lawsuits being filed”. He thinks the Trump administration will go just as hard with “eight to 10 different code name projects” to go after. While many US publishers, advertisers and agencies had been “captured” by Google, Kint reckons that “halo is starting to come off”. He urges marketers and the supply chain locally to likewise reject being strong-armed. For publishers, Future Media founder Ricky Sutton echoes that call: “This is the first window in 20 years where we've got a chance to take back some of the things that we've lost. What we do is too valuable to be lost to one commercial company with a 25 year run in the sunlight.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The B2B world is a market where you don't call customers, customers call you - although it's the opposite of widespread B2B marketing assumptions and practice today. A B2B awakening is underway as business marketers see increasing evidence that an under-investment in B2B brand work leads to a sea of sameness and mediocre results among buyers – across most industry sectors, many feel there is little supplier differentiation, limiting the likelihood you'll receive that all-important first call.  But if the phone does ring from a buyer, the latest round of research across Asia Pacific says you're overwhelmingly likely to land the deal, irrespective of the sales teams prowess.  Sameness leads to nothingness and a B2B marketing strategy that prioritises marketing qualified leads (MQLs) over all else comes with serious limitations, according to this week's guests. Instead, the brand signals you send out “need to align with how modern customers research and purchase, particularly in complex B2B environments where decision making often involves multiple stakeholders,” says Sophie Neate, Global Head of Digital Marketing & Content for industrial giant ABB. When making the case internally for change, however, don't underestimate the support from sales teams, says Lara Barnet, the Head of Marketing in Australia for the global technology-managed service provider Logicalis.  “Sellers face that problem more than anyone else,” she says. “They're on the front line, they're the ones picking up the phone and talking to customers. They face this all the time.” The broader growth in influence of buying committees necessarily lessens the influence of a single C-Suite decision maker, and that influence wanes further as the size of the buying committee scales along with the value of the opportunity. An MQL led approach also fails to recognise that customers, not sellers, control the product research agenda and most of those are invisible until they choose to turn public. By then, says the boss of B2B agency Green Hat, Stuart Jaffray, it's likely too late - they have mostly made their decision.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

SCA in March launched three big tech bets for its LiSTNR master app – a customer data platform (CDP), customer-specific data matching clean rooms and dynamic creative optimisation. The bets are paying off and SCA is no longer reliant on third party data sources. Execs say the platform and its 2.1m logged-in users already command over 40 per cent of all digital audio ad dollars, helping SCA's $50m investment reach breakeven a year ahead of schedule. LiSTNR is now moving into the next phase of audience matching, granular targeting and attribution via its own first party data and ANZ spend data. Its first API-connection based on fuel price changes went so well – landing multiple briefs within weeks – that LiSTNR's launching 20 more across five categories including finance, property, travel, weather and utilities. “Whatever the agency or brands want to work on, we're able to activate those APIs quite quickly,” per LiSTNR commercial boss Oliver Newton. It's also launching ‘mood targeting', i.e. contextual ads for brands based on what audiences are listening to, as well as audio retargeting. Next year LiSTNR will also be able to tell brands the carbon impact of their campaigns across SCA's assets thanks to a partnership with emissions mapping platform, Scope3. Newton reckons CO2 measurement credentials will be table stakes as advertisers move into negotiation mode for 2025 – especially for larger firms newly mandated to report emissions data, of which advertising and marketing is an eye-wateringly large chunk. The advertiser adoption curve is steepening. In June, 20 per cent of LiSTNR campaigns made use of the Adtech Hub. By September that had jumped to 33 per cent. Next year LiSTNR aims for 45-50 per cent, according to head of SCAiQ Abi Wallis. She says brands are buying-in because they can target people based on where they are, what they are doing, and which brands they are buying. They can suppress existing customers and target only new potential customers based on their listening and spending habits, or likewise upsell and cross-sell to their existing customers, with sharper smarts and context, tailored dynamic creative, and with the spend and audience data enabling “a real world view of the impact” and ROI. LiSTNR's new capabilities put it on a par with the big tech platforms, per Wallis and Newton, if not beyond – and the opportunity to harness the Adtech Hub is not limited to big brands. “Agency or direct … It's there to be utilised by anyone looking to access digital audio,” says Newton.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A decade after launching viewability metrics, the Media Ratings Council is moving to standardise attention metrics globally. That means buying media based on attention metrics will scale faster. But a world first out of home study into attention by QMS and Amplified Intelligence is already going global – and the findings for brands are huge. In short, out of home completely flips ratios around average active attention rates, with 85 per cent of sites studied getting at least 2.5 seconds – the baseline for memory encoding that grows brands. Some sites and formats get much more, and the rate of attention decay is slower than other media. The results have the likes of Suncorp and OMD media executives pumped, suggests QMS Chief Strategy Officer Christian Zavecz. He thinks all out of home players will benefit as a result, especially those ramping up programmatic trading of assets. That's because the study, which mapped 1.3 million people passing large and small format outdoor ads, also finds that active attention (people looking directly at the ad) and passive attention (where the ad is in people's peripheral vision) can be predicted by site, which means planners and buyers can reliably trade on it. Amplified Intelligence CEO, Dr Karen Nelson-Field, says the study will likely lead challenger brands to rethink out of home, because greater active attention does heavier lifting in terms of brand building, where smaller brands are traditionally disadvantaged by larger rivals whose codes and distinctive assets are already embedded in people's brains. Bus shelters, per the study, are a particularly good bet, notching “about 7.4 seconds of active attention and about 14 seconds of passive,” per Nelson-Field. But getting the attention is only the first critical step. To drive sales, the creative and branding must cut through. “Anyone that tells you that attention and outcomes are linearly related is lying,” says Nelson-Field. “It's the combination of the two: Media drives the opportunity for creative; creative takes it and gets the sale.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

TikTok marketing science chief Rory Dolan says performance media costs are soaring while conversions flatline. He has the data to prove it. After mapping TikTok platform activity with Tracksuit's brand tracking data, Dolan has one key message – invest in brand to boost conversion and beat biddable auction inflation: “Advertisers with 60 per cent-plus awareness have a 2.86 times increase in their baseline conversion rate versus advertisers that are 20 per cent below,” he says, rendering brand versus performance arguments redundant, if not suicidal. Full funnel execution is king, says Dolan, because building future demand means easier, cheaper conversions at scale: “Brand is fundamentally a performance tactic.” Tracksuit co-founder James Hurman literally wrote the book on that principle. He penned Future Demand after one of his own DTC businesses, initially hockey-sticking via Facebook ads, experienced the performance media ‘Easter Island Effect'. Acquisition dried up, performance costs spiralled, the economics tanked. Without priming new customers, “brands use all of their resources, then they have nothing left, and then they die”, warns Hurman. The idea that brand campaigns have to be broad, multichannel and expensive is a myth, says TikTok's Dolan. “Brand can be built by targeting subgroups of your target audience consistently over time. So this can actually be achieved with small amounts of investment.” The awareness sweet spot for small brands, per the research, is 37 per cent. “We see very strong business impacts as a result of that early on.” Even “big performance-focused advertisers” are hitting the same growth ceiling “which is very expensive to bypass by performance [spend]”, says Dolan. “These are businesses that maybe three years ago wouldn't have touched brand [investment] because of the inability to track their short-term ROI. They're now seeing the impact of that.” Dolan says TikTok's research underlines that increasing performance spend will not build brand – but brand spend will boost both brand and performance outcomes. For those facing hard budget choices and sceptical CFOs, Dolan suggests leaving performance media to bots and spending more time and money on brand: “That seems to be the big sweet spot at the moment – automating the performance and focusing on driving these multipliers.” But first, get brand tracking sorted.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Six months ago conversational commerce wasn't really on the radar of Deloitte Digital's National Partner Lead Leon Doyle. Now Doyle is reorganising his entire content team around it – and believes it's coming at the $200bn content industry like a freight train. AI-powered chatbots and the speed at which all major platforms are developing and deploying, particularly on messaging apps, are accelerating – ultimately they're heading to full-funnel capabilities where in travel, for example,  discovery to purchase is completed in a single conversational thread. Doyle says brands must prepare for far more content governance to clear “content debt” fast. I.e. start writing not only for humans, but commerce-enabling AI applications which will ingest forgotten, incorrect, outdated or even misleading corporate information and content lurking in digital corners that the bots will otherwise scrape to build their customer responses from. That means restructuring content architecture and taxonomies and focusing on “conversation design, not just content design”, says Doyle “This is what my team are doing. They're thinking about AI conversation strategy … rather than design just for one platform, they're actually thinking about how they structure content in modules for conversations across multiple modes - website, app, chat.” While Doyle cites a handful of brands including Commbank and Qantas aiming for early mover advantage locally, Deloitte Digital's Global Marketing and Commerce Lead, Nick Garrett, says conversational commerce is “exploding in every market”. He thinks the impact on content economics is seismic – with everything that existed pre-AI at risk of obsolescence. “If $200 billion is moving into play …. no client, no organisation, could not be looking at this at a forensic level.” As Doyle puts it: “If you're not thinking actively about your content debt, your content supply chain, start right now. Because the machines are here, they're learning from your content, and we need to be good teachers to them.” What does it mean for the broader content supply chain? Disruption for all but absolute tier one providers, per Garrett. “If your bread and butter was making [content at] scale and you're dependent on bums and seats, a little bit of automation and a bit of offshore, you're probably staring into a pretty uncomfortable place right now.” For pretty much everyone on the brand-side, it means content creation is moving into a risk management business. Doyle's advice for CX's next big overhaul? Keep it “simple, human and trustworthy”.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Associate Professor Felipe Thomaz, of University of Oxford's Saïd Business School, suggests Professor Byron Sharp's best known book, How Brands Grow, is a misnomer – it's actually about how big brands keep big marketshare, not how they got there. He also says it's based on flaws within Andrew Ehrenberg's earlier work, primarily static markets and a requirement not to differentiate. Thomaz suggests that's why big FMCG firms adhering to those rules were caught napping by more nimble differentiated start-ups. Reach “sufficiency”, or optimising media for reach, no longer works, he suggests, because all reach is not equal – and reach alone doesn't deliver business outcomes. “There is a missing dimension,” per Thomaz. He's out to prove it with a peer-reviewed paper that analyses 1,000 campaigns and a million customer journeys via Kantar and WPP. The upshot? “None of it holds … I'm seeing that 1 per cent of campaigns are actually getting exceptional money, while the vast majority are choosing to get some really mediocre outcomes.” That's partly because audience reach doesn't account for their ability to be influenced - and different media, different categories and consumer types have varying degrees of impact in different moments. Reach, he says, is proving a misleading media proxy for business impact - the variances of consumer receptivity to switching is different by category. Personal care, for instance, has less consumer preparedness to trial alternatives once they've established their preference - they're harder to “manipulate”, Thomas posits, but some media channel characteristics stand a better chance. TV versus influencers in lower funnel strategies will likely surprise many. Which has knock-on impacts on channel effectiveness and weighting. Thomaz says that's good news for media owners – if they can stop selling on impressions and start selling on functionality. “For some categories, there might be a premium they can charge.” The need to reach all potential buyers in the category, he says, “has not changed in the least … Reach is important, and you still need that scale. However, you also need [to optimise to] the business outcome. But he still thinks it's “really bad to waste your money on people who will never buy you”. In short: “If you're managing your company's marketing on simplistic and reductive laws, you might want to revisit those, because you're leaving money on the table or leaving yourself open to very simple counter-plays. It's dangerous.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Privacy Commissioner Carly Kind was “surprised” – read underwhelmed – by the first tranche of Privacy Act legislation laid before parliament last month. But she says the hard stuff is still coming after the election, which means businesses now diverting budgets away from compliance to other activities may regret it, especially as the regulator has sharper teeth. Kind says firms are failing under the current Privacy Act – and they are in the regulator's crosshairs. Tracking pixels are under serious scrutiny across the piste, as are companies using data beyond what it was collected for and potentially passing it to third parties. In that vein, Kind has “existing concerns” about loyalty programs, customer data enrichment businesses and data broking: “It's something I'd like to look at again under the current framework,” she says, suggesting those operators “make sure that they're watertight”. Likewise firms targeting via geolocation: “We're looking at a case at the moment … We have some real concerns about how it's being used.” Lookalikes, customer audiences, hashed emails and data clean rooms appear to be in the clear. But under the next wave of reforms “the changing definition of personal information could certainly have an impact,” she says, though for now it's not clear-cut. In the meantime, Kind says there are four areas for businesses to laser in on – including small firms who will no longer be exempt from regulation. First, “know what data you hold and who you're giving it to.” Second, “make sure you've got a retention and destruction regime in place – anything that's old, you don't need to hold it any more.” Next, get into the weeds on contracts with third party service providers and be sure to have a data breach response plan in place. “It's an area of vulnerability we're seeing a lot at the moment,” says Kind. In short: “Don't take your foot off the gas, because we're looking to take a more enforcement-based approach to regulation in the interim.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Part One: Seven companies now account for a third of the total value of the US S&P 500 – and the bulk of their collective trillions in market value happens to come from marketers and advertising. It's a crazy number, but Terry Kawaja, the fast talking banker, considered by some the ‘godfather' of adtech start-up investment, says another wave of advertising and marketing related tech spin offs are incoming that's making him a little more bullish than the cooling of the past 18 months. Kawaja's New York firm Luma Partners is behind the Lumascape spaghetti maps that try to make sense of the sprawling, connected pipes of the adtech industry. Kawaja thinks consolidation has to happen for the industry to shake the cowboys – “the environment is highly fragmented and that allows people to hide,” he says. That's code for nefarious market behaviour which undermines adtech's credibility - and Kawaja argues a clean digital ad system is more important now than ever if open web players are to compete with big tech, especially as he sees retail media quickly eating a third of open web ad dollars. But there's little sign of that consolidation right now and Kawaja admits adtech is still notoriously opportunistic and has played a starring role in the creation of some of the problems the market is struggling to address with junk digital data, fake people and opaque trading practices that nobody seems able to solve. Regardless, Kawaja says another wave of tech investment is coming and for good measure and says Google's pervasive global advertising trading system being broken up would have huge financial upside for Alphabet shareholders – and the industry at large. The US Department of Justice has been landing punches over the past three weeks in its current US Federal District Court adtech "monopoly” trial against Google.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Paramount went early on both converged trading and a streaming ad tier in the US. Now it's doing likewise in Australia and Lee Sears, Paramount's international ad sales chief, thinks both plays will pay off for the media and entertainment conglomerate, its advertisers and crucially – viewers. Unlike some rivals, Paramount didn't push subscribers automatically onto the streaming ad tier. Sears says it didn't need to, because “we have a huge audience elsewhere, so don't have to be reliant on just the SVOD ad tier”. He suggests forcing ads onto subscribers that signed up for an ad free service wouldn't be right. Either way, the strategy appears to be paying off. Locally, sales chief Rod Prosser won't divulge numbers, though analysts Telsyte estimate Paramount SVOD subscribers at 1.8m, with sign-ups outstripping its competitive set. Prosser said the reality is much higher than the Telsyte estimate and, confirmed “We are still the fastest growing [SVOD]”. Moreover, Sears suggests Paramount's subscribers are actually using the service amid some “wild” numbers being touted in market, per OMG investment chief Kristiaan Kroon, “because it's not an add-on to something else, or it's not a byproduct of a bill that you're paying elsewhere within your household”. On converged trading across BVOD, SVOD, AVOD and FAST (linear TV's set to follow locally in H2 next year), Sears says the approach is now driving a “major” chunk of revenue in the US and other global markets. He anticipates Australia will follow that playbook: “It is now part of everything we do … Converged trading, connecting everything together, is how we lead with our conversation. I think that's the way everybody will try to lead conversations in the future, unless you only have a one-dimensional play.” Part of the converged approach is a “blended CPM”, i.e. a bundled price that factors in the different channels the ads run across. Prosser said how that pricing works has been the biggest question from agencies in recent weeks, alongside bringing linear TV into the converged mix.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Salesforce reckons it's the end of the DIY AI era – and global CMO Ariel Kelman is tasked with addressing what his CEO, Marc Benioff said last week is Salesforce's biggest marketing challenge: convincing global markets to think less about Open AI, Microsoft copilots and other generative AI companies that require businesses to custom-bake the tech into their organisations to make it work – and more about the deployment of low code, no code, autonomous AI agents that can be built and tested and live within weeks, if not days. The difference is that Salesforce is pointing these agents directly at existing customer systems and data, rather than brands spending “literally tens of millions of dollars with cloud providers to train these models” from scratch. “There are lots of use cases where you do need to train and fine-tune your models. But absolutely not sales, service, marketing and commerce – the models are smart enough that they can go and grab information,” says Kelman. “It can just scale the work that our customers have already done.” It's working for the likes of Saks, Gucci and Wiley – and some local firms like Fisher & Paykel and Queensland University of Technology are now likewise plugged into what Benioff reckons is “AI's third wave”. Kelman says AI agents “blur the lines” between sales, service and marketing functionality – and coming next is a variant for sales lead development, where the agent will develop the leads until they are warm enough for a human to take over.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Before launching its first-ever brand campaign, Virgin Velocity had to convince finance and commercial teams that investing in brand would drive long-term demand, re-engage its 10m members – and ultimately power growth. So it tapped Beatgrid, the same cross-media measurement platform used by Virgin Australia when relaunching its airline brand.Beatgrid's audience measurement system uses a passive, single source panel – via an opt-in mobile phone-based app – that uses subtle audio pitch shifts to the ad creative to determine which channel the audience was exposed to. That means it can detect if an ad has been seen and how many times per user across different screens and channels – with total recall because it's not relying on humans to remember what they saw, when and how accurately. It also enables an accurate read on cross-channel incremental reach.For Velocity's GM of Member Engagement, Emma King, demonstrating the panel's robustness via control groups meant she could prove incrementality and unlock the media budget. It's also given Velocity and their media partner PHD, a sharper insight on which channels deliver the highest growth per campaign and cumulatively across campaigns – and where the best balance of effectiveness and efficiency lies.Beatgrid's data also threw up some surprises. “In one example, we saw total TV drive a lift of 11 points. And when we tease out the impact of BVOD, we can see it drives an incremental result of three points above TV,” says PHD Head of Research, Lillian Zrim – counter to the narrative of declining audiences and effectiveness.Velocity's King says Beatgrid's data also enabled her to justify investing in other brand channels. “We saw television work really well with out-of-home to drive incremental KPI results. If you have a lot of overlap in reach, sometimes you're thinking - maybe we don't need to cover both; then you see results like this that say [if someone's exposed to both channels], they're going to get a much higher lift.”While King and Zrim acknowledge that nothing happens in a vacuum, “In April, our CEO confirmed that member growth trend was 35 per cent above the growth trend the previous year,” says King. “So that's an example of the kind of commercial impact that these kinds of campaigns can have.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The proposed ban on social media for teens has polarised industry and academia with warnings aplenty it could backfire. Ex-Facebook ANZ MD Liam Walsh argues rather than a ban, dumbing down the algorithms, forcing algorithmic transparency through regulation or removing them altogether – could actually be the solution if fears of the effects of algorithmically-generated dopamine addiction and attention-hogging dark patterns on teenage mental health are the primary problem.“If we took that out, how many problems do we have with social?” he says. Walsh warns society has no structures in place to deal with fallout that could land in nine months' time when the Albanese government proposes a new age limit on social media use. “If you take away kids' whole network, how they commune with others, that's kind of a big deal.” Walsh doubts teens will “suddenly start hanging out in the park and helping old ladies paint the fence.”Erica Thomas, Principal at private girls school Kincoppal in Sydney's Rose Bay, agrees teenagers will “seek other things” to fill the void “and that is one concern” but warns there is no time to wait for a protracted legal battle with tech giants in attempts to curtail or open up the algorithms. She sees daily, first-hand, how badly action is required. Across a 30-year career in education, she says social media is “the most damaging influence I have ever seen”.Concentration levels are plummeting with teachers struggling to find a fix, girls are being conditioned to perfectionism from a young age, boys exposed to increasingly extreme violence, toxic influencers and highly sexualised images and bots of girls and young women – and in the last five years, “it's got worse”.Brands have long championed ESG and purpose. But they've been strangely silent on the proposed ban. Katie Palmer-Rose, a social media marketer who has worked with the likes of L'Oreal, PepsiCo and Aldi and now runs influence agency Kindred, thinks many are waiting to see how it plays out. But she says they face a “moment in time where they tend to think very differently about how they show up in social media, how they build communities and connectedness in a digital world that doesn't live in social media,”Production company Finch's Rob Galluzzo and Greg Attwells fully expect legal challenges from tech platforms – who they claim have told staff to “stonewall” 36 Months, the campaign they founded with Nova's Michael ‘Wippa' Wipfli to push for a social media ban for under 16s. Dumbing down algorithms won't cut it, says Attwells. Keeping regulation about health, not tech, and moving fast is key, they suggest – with more backer brands about to be announced. The next phase is designing the massive educational and societal infrastructure required to fill the looming gap.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The latest analysis of SVOD growth rates from tech and telco analyst Telsyte proves one thing: fear of streaming services losing subscribers by pivoting to ads is overblown: They're growing – though some more than others. MD Foad Fadaghi says ads, plus AI personalisation, integration and format innovation, will power the next growth cycle but streaming growth has peaked.   Omnicom investment chief Kristiaan Kroon suggests Stan, Nine's ad-free SVOD holdout, should heed that lesson because Nine has something globals like Netflix and others do not: “A really sophisticated, at scale, sales infrastructure, which means they could make really good money from an ad tier.” There's more competition incoming from HBO and Disney. But Kroon reiterates that the best sales wins because unlike the US and UK, Australia's premium end of town doesn't operate on fully automated systems and open exchanges. “They are still very much handheld markets.” Who's winning right now? “Amazon Prime and then Binge and Kayo. Why? They have come to market with scale, both have sales teams, both have sophisticated data infrastructure,” per Kroon. He thinks streamer ad tiers will eclipse his earlier predictions of $75-$100m take in 2024 with Amazon, Kayo and Binge taking most of the pie. Next year, he thinks SVOD ad tiers could beat $200m, but there's debate about how big ad-streamers like Amazon and Netflix actually are. Fadaghi suggests 80 per cent Telstye's estimated 4.8m Amazon Prime subscribers could technically receive ads. Kroon puts the active Prime user base around 2-2.5m, broadly on a par with Nine and Seven. There's also an effectiveness debate, with data from Adgile suggesting streamers can't yet match TV's results. Kroon says the MMM-effectiveness-ROI debate has become “very finger pointy in recent months”, but agrees there's a gap to close. Ultimately, he thinks local content integration could prove decisive in determining winners and losers – and for some of the globals, Australia may prove too small. “I don't see how we can support that many BVOD, SVOD [players] – and we haven't really even talked about YouTube and the amount of ads that are served on CTV now,” says Kroon. “There's only going to be a certain number that can be supported.” Fadaghi predicts the streamers will triple in size to 10m subscribers in the next four years, “with more than a third on ad tiers.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For anyone in ecom or performance marketing, this podcast is a must listen. Forget ROI and ROAS, think unit economics, says former investment banker (her last big deal was the Myer float) turned entrepreneur Carla Penn-Kahn. She was early into ecom and left Credit Suisse to launch four of her own –Kitchenware Australia, A Gift Worth Giving, Everten and Buy My Thing. But she sold her last venture last year when she realised it had hit peak profitability. With performance ad prices doubling in four years, and Amazon reaching full speed, the unit economics weren't going to get any better. Penn-Kahn thinks direct-to-consumer trailblazers have likewise lost their mojo – and their moats – and face the same dilemma, because they can no longer sustainably scale through advertising and VCs are sharpening their bottom line focus as much as the top. Meanwhile, Amazon has just signed an exclusive deal with Australia Post to deliver on weekends. “I can't see other brands like Myer and DJs getting Aus Post to do the same for them … which 100 per cent gives Amazon an edge in this market over Australian businesses.” Hence she's cool on the outlook for many, but particularly the likes of The Iconic, Temple and Webster, Adore Beauty and Australian marketplaces like Woolworths-owned Catch, which last week put a $96m dent in Wesfarmers' balance sheet. Loyalty programs and retail media offers a lifeline for some, per Penn-Kahn, but most DTC brands don't have the latter option. But Amazon might not have it all it's own way. She suggests Microsoft might be gearing up to buy Shopify (which in Australia lays claim to controlling 25 per cent of all ecom transactions). If it happens “they will own the space”, suggests Penn-Kahn. “You will be advertising on Bing through the Shopify network as an ecom brand and leveraging Microsoft's AI to build your website, build the content. It could be a full ecosystem roll up if it happens. It's very possible.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The effectiveness “revolution” is colliding with the AI-spawned efficiency uprising and it's leaping the early consensus AI use cases in marketing around automating personalised content and communications. So much so Mark Ritson choked on his Wellfleet oysters when Jon Lombardo and Peter Weinberg told him they were leaving top jobs at the LinkedIn-backed thinktank, the B2B Institute. Then they told him why. Ritson promptly joined their venture, along with what Weinberg calls “the advisory board to end all advisory boards”.  Thus the synthetically-enhanced AI marketing outfit Evidenza was born. The founders argue their new piece of “synthetic customer” tech, which starts with creating AI copies of target customers, can create an annual marketing strategy, category entry points, messaging and positioning at a fraction of the cost of traditional market research and in a fraction of the time it takes for a marketing team to do the same. They claim it completes major research projects in minutes – and have proven their digitally synthetic customers match real customer responses it took some of the world's biggest brands long cycles to gather. “It can imitate essentially anyone by gathering and synthesizing massive amounts of data,” per Weinberg, including almost impossible-to-reach professionals, like airline chiefs, or the bosses of mining companies. Which is exactly what Evidenza did in a head-to-head test with EY Americas CMO Toni Clayton-Hine's actual survey data – and “reached 95 per cent of the same conclusions,” per Weinberg. EY “has been a fantastic client ever since.” But as well as synthesizing customers, the system also synthesizes marketing strategy and science: Imagine on one side a synthetic combination of Mark Ritson, Professor Byron Sharp teamed with ad effectiveness maestros Peter Field and Les Binet. Then on the other side, hundreds of synthetic CEOs, CFOs, CTOs, CIOs, CMOs and each of those functions linked to the nuances of different industries and categories. Put them all into an AI blender, and you get what Lombardo and Weinberg think is an efficiency revolution in marketing fused with the effectiveness revolution from the marketing academics. The upshot for marketers? “A finance-friendly marketing plan that used to take months now takes maybe minutes, but more likely, a day,” per Weinberg. According to Lombardo that's good news even for traditional market researchers. “Everyone is going to get better. Average is over.” So what's left for the humans? The synthetic duo say the smart stuff - experience, strategic frameworks and brand and category nuance, for instance - that makes the machines do better. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.