Podcasts about Cloud

When it's time for an ending? How do you navigate difficult relationships? How do you discern your next step? We've all asked ourselves these questions, but it can be hard to find answers. Dr. Henry Cloud shares from his book, "Necessary Endings: The Employees, Businesses, and Relationships That All of Us Have to Give Up in Order to Move Forward." Lisen to Dr. Cloud's message about necessary endings here Originally aired January 8, 2026 Check out Susie's new podcast God Impressions on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts! Faith Radio podcasts are made possible by your support. Give now: click here

Caller Questions & Discussion: Marc explains the difference between change and growth. While we can change external circumstances like jobs or relationships, real transformation happens through internal growth—otherwise the same patterns often remain. How do I handle my estranged 28-year-old son? He's always had a difficult relationship with my husband and cut off most of the family except me. He eloped last year and has now cut me off as well. I'm concerned about my friend's safety due to her memory loss. Should I step back and give her space because she isn't open to suggestions? My husband experienced physical and emotional abuse as a child, and he often becomes angry with me and projects his mother's traits onto me. What should I do in this situation? My friend's husband is struggling with infidelity and anger and is considering an inpatient program—what type of treatment program would be most appropriate for him?

Caller Questions & Discussion: Chris discusses having a high-maintenance internal world and how showing up well requires intentional effort rather than entitlement, beginning each day by releasing anxiety to God. How do I establish the right boundaries with my 25-year-old daughter? She's finishing her master's degree but takes her frustrations out on me. I feel bad when I block my meth-addicted son, but he goes to detox and then starts using meth again. He recently fell in love with a woman who is also a meth addict. How can I pick the right lady to be with? I keep making the same mistakes over and over. My estranged son wants nothing to do with me because of my political views and Christian beliefs. I wasn’t a Christian when he was a child.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Alice shares that over 77 percent of those who work in the sex industry were sexually abused in the past. If we are consuming pornography, are we participating in the abuse of those we are watching? Our daughter is getting married this weekend and it might be the last chance for full family photos because my husband has cancer. Our two sons will be there, but they have not spoken to each other for four years. How do I show up for my sons? Are grief, betrayal, and trauma intertwined? My sister took a lot of money from me through a will and is manipulative by talking to my neighbor about me and calling my doctor. My wife had an affair and gave me an STD; my doctor told me to divorce, but I don't want to be by myself. How does a single person, who isn't sexually active, know if they will have a sex drive when they get married? I get really enraged at my husband, sons, and mom, but the root is that my expectations aren't met. My husband sexually assaulted me and the police said there's nothing they can do. He contacts women on Facebook, and he asked his mom about moving into her house with his girlfriend; should I get help or get a divorce?

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Sherri explains what a “traumaberg” is and how trauma is like an iceberg. The iceberg shows our behaviors, but underneath the surface is the trauma that happened in our past. I've been struggling with lust and masturbation for the last 6 years, and a man from church has asked me to be his girlfriend. Is it okay for me to start a relationship? I used to struggle with sex addiction and my wife is everything I could ever want, but she has no libido or desire for sex. What should I do? My son has a job and a roommate, but he talks about suicide and doesn't go out. How do I help him?

The clock is ticking on President Trump's Iran ceasefire deadline. Despite expectations that Vice President JD Vance would travel to Pakistan for round two of negotiations, he remains in Washington. Even if Vance heads to Islamabad, it's uncertain if Iran will turn up. CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins the show from Islamabad.  Also on today's show: Matt Smith, Director of Commodity Research, Kpler; Ukrainian journalist Olga Rudenko; former US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jill discusses suffering. Pain is God’s megaphone to get our attention. Are you going to allow your suffering to produce character growth? Are you going to be bitter and beaten down about suffering or use it to get better? My close friend’s daughter committed suicide and my son even expressed thoughts of suicide in the past; how do I help my friend and my kids? I’ve been married almost 50 years and my husband clutters and hoards; any tips on how to deal with this? My 11-year-old son was diagnosed with ADHD and defiance disorder, but he lives with his mom; what do I do with his behavior when he’s with me? I've been married for 18 months and pay all the bills; my wife works but keeps her money to herself and spends it on whatever she wants. What can I do?

Enjoy the warm... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

Cloud platform Vercel confirms a data breach. Microsoft releases emergency updates to fix Windows Server restart loops. Bluesky gets DDoSed. Insurers keep close watch on an AI hiring discrimination suit. Cybersecurity workforce turnover rises. Scammers abuse Apple's email notification system. A Scattered Spider member pleads guilty to SMS phishing and cryptocurrency theft. Monday business brief. Our guest is Melissa K. Smith, SVP, Global Strategic Partnerships and Initiatives at SentinelOne, discussing building a unified defense through strategic partnerships. A budget beacon briefly betrays a boat's bearing.  Remember to leave us a 5-star rating and review in your favorite podcast app. Miss an episode? Sign-up for our daily intelligence roundup, Daily Briefing, and you'll never miss a beat. And be sure to follow CyberWire Daily on LinkedIn. CyberWire Guest Today on our Industry Voices segment, we are joined by Melissa K. Smith, SVP, Global Strategic Partnerships and Initiatives at SentinelOne discussing building a unified defense through strategic partnerships. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out the full interview here. Selected Reading Vercel confirms breach as hackers claim to be selling stolen data (Bleeping Computer) Microsoft releases emergency updates to fix Windows Server issues (Bleeping Computer) Bluesky Disrupted by Sophisticated DDoS Attack (SecurityWeek) Who is liable when artificial intelligence makes mistakes? (Financial Times) Insurance carriers quietly back away from covering AI outputs (CSO Online) Compensation vs. Burnout: The New Retention Calculus for Cybersecurity Leaders (Security Boulevard) Watch out, hackers are abusing Apple account notifications to distribute malware, steal money and data (TechRadar) British Scattered Spider Hacker Pleads Guilty in the US (SecurityWeek) Business Briefing for 04.15.26 (CyberWire Pro) Dutch navy frigate tracked by mailing it a Bluetooth tracker (The Register) Share your feedback. What do you think about CyberWire Daily? Please take a few minutes to share your thoughts with us by completing our brief listener survey. Thank you for helping us continue to improve our show. Want to hear your company in the show? N2K CyberWire helps you reach the industry's most influential leaders and operators, while building visibility, authority, and connectivity across the cybersecurity community. Learn more at sponsor.thecyberwire.com. The CyberWire is a production of N2K Networks, your source for strategic workforce intelligence. © N2K Networks, Inc. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cat & Cloud Podcast Cat & Cloud Coffee www.catandcloud.com/ Coffee and a Danish Barista Champion, Christopher Hoff - Ep #446 Summary: In this episode, Jared and Casey sit down with Danish Barista Champion Christopher Hoff, a top-six finisher at the World Barista Championships, to talk about competition, coffee, and the deeper story behind both. Christopher shares how his world routine centered on the coffee variety Wush Wush, a tropical and complex coffee that became a metaphor for his own journey of trying to become something he wasn't before learning to compete from a more grounded, authentic place. The conversation moves from signature drinks and competition strategy into bigger reflections on storytelling, hospitality, personal growth, and how coffee professionals can invite people into new experiences instead of gatekeeping them. It's a thoughtful, wide-ranging episode about craft, identity, and what it means to share something meaningful through coffee. Cat & Cloud celebrates this relationship to the world community of coffee and our desire to connect with friends from around the globe. Chapters 00:00 Welcoming Christopher Hoff to Cat & Cloud 03:20 What Barista Competition Actually Looks Like 09:10 Breaking Down the Signature Drink 13:00 Wush Wush and the Coffee Behind the Routine 20:00 The Three Principles and the Meaning of the Presentation 26:00 Competition Pressure, Overthinking, and Performing Authentically 32:00 Discovering Coffee Through Cat & Cloud and Coffee Collective 38:00 Denmark vs. California Coffee Culture 42:00 Hospitality, Encouraging Taste, and Bringing People In 45:00 The Community of Coffee Cat & Cloud: Instagram www.instagram.com/catcloudcoffee/ Webstore www.catandcloud.com/ Roasters Choice Subscription www.catandcloud.com/collections/subscriptions Wholesale Partners! Interested in serving our coffee at your business? Learn more about our Partner Program https://catandcloud.com/wholesale Links – The Truth! Colombia Truji y Angelita Thermal Shock Natural https://catandcloud.com/products/colombia-truji-y-angelita-thermal-shock-natural Cat & Cloud Coffee was founded in 2016 by three friends who believe experiences and connections shape our lives. Former barista champions and lifelong coffee professionals, they envisioned a better way to do business and set out to create a values-driven organization that put culture first. Our mission is to inspire connection by creating memorable experiences. Whether it's with guests in our 4 retail locations in Santa Cruz, our team members, or our wholesale partners across the country, we strive to leave everyone better than we found them.  The Cat & Cloud Podcast is a space for us to share our experiences and adventures in coffee and business in hopes of inspiring more people to create culture and values-driven organizations.  Hosted by Chris Baca and Jared Truby Produced by Casey Ryan April 2026

Caller Questions & Discussion: Becky discusses the big lie that “time heals all wounds” and explains why untreated pain can continue to harm us over time. Can you give me guidance? My 25-year-old daughter has Bipolar Disorder and recently moved back home because she's been unable to maintain employment. Should I tell my adult son he is giving the appearance of evil? He met a woman 20 years younger who claims to be a minister, and he's now traveling the country with her children. They sleep in the same camper. I'm in a failed marriage to a malignant narcissist, but I don't believe in divorce. My oldest son has asked me to watch his children because he can't afford daycare, but my youngest son and husband don't want me to. If I don't, my oldest son will have to quit his job.

Very warm start to the week, then changes... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

Jeff and Jim are joined by Warwick Ashford, senior analyst at KuppingerCole and returning MC of the European Identity and Cloud Conference, for a full preview of EIC 2026. The conference runs May 19-22 at the Berlin Congress Center and is expecting around 1,500 attendees with roughly 250 speakers across 200 sessions. Warwick walks through the 2026 tagline, Digital Trust Through Intelligent Identity, and unpacks the five parallel content streams covering identity governance, real-world IAM use cases, emerging tech, enterprise infrastructure, and privacy and compliance. The conversation covers how AI and agentic identity have moved from theory to a central agenda theme, what to know about the quantum-safe identity block, why EU digital wallets and digital sovereignty are getting serious keynote time, and why EIC records everything so you never have to pick the wrong session. Jeff also shares his take on where EIC fits in the broader conference calendar alongside Identiverse and Gartner, and why he is thoroughly done hearing that identity is the new perimeter.Connect with Warwick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/warwickashford/Attend European Identity and Cloud Conference 2026 (use code idac25mko for a 25% discount): https://www.kuppingercole.com/events/eic2026?ref=partneridac26Secure Remote Access: The Foundation of Industrial Cybersecurity (KC Analyst Chat Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpNg-ogEv4Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00:00 Intro and AI Cybersecurity Discussion00:04:00 EIC 2026 and Discount Code00:05:47 Introducing Warwick Ashford00:07:00 Warwick's Recent Work: MDR, SRA for OT/ICS, and TPAG00:10:16 The History and Evolution of the EIC Name00:11:00 Tagline: Digital Trust Through Intelligent Identity00:12:10 How AI Has Elevated the EIC Agenda00:14:49 Sessions vs Workshops at EIC00:17:57 EIC as a Community and Networking Conference00:18:00 Jeff's Conference Circuit: EIC, Identiverse, and Gartner00:25:28 EIC 2026 Keynote Highlights00:31:55 Virtual Attendance and Session Recordings00:34:34 Hidden Gem: The Quantum-Safe Identity Block00:36:15 Logistics: 1500 Attendees and 250 Speakers00:38:00 The Five Parallel Content Streams00:43:31 Is Identity the New Perimeter?00:48:13 Fun Segment: Most Memorable Theater MomentsKeywords: EIC 2026, European Identity Conference, Warwick Ashford, KuppingerCole, digital trust, intelligent identity, agentic identity, non-human identities, ITDR, quantum-safe identity, EU digital wallets, identity fabric, identity control plane, IAM, zero trust, Berlin, conference preview, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Warwick Ashford

C'est le logiciel le plus téléchargé au monde et il est français.Jean-Baptiste Kempf préside VideoLAN, l'association qui a développé VLC, un lecteur vidéo open source plus connu sous le nom du “cône qui lit des vidéos”.Mais derrière cette icône mondiale, il y a une histoire improbable.Celle d'un projet étudiant devenu l'infrastructure invisible d'internet.Netflix, Amazon, Google, si vous regardez une vidéo en ligne aujourd'hui, c'est en partie grâce à VLC.Même la gendarmerie nationale et Interpol l'utilisent pour leurs enquêtes.En parallèle, Jean-Baptiste a monté une douzaine d'entreprises et essayé tous les formats, du bootstrap total aux subventions.En 2021, il se retrouve face à Xavier Niel et Octave Klaba pour racheter Shadow, une solution cloud gaming qui permet de jouer aux jeux vidéo en streaming.Aujourd'hui, il travaille sur Kyber.Un logiciel qui fait disparaître la distance entre l'homme et la machine pour contrôler des drones, des robots humanoïdes ou des bras chirurgicaux à l'autre bout du monde avec la latence la plus faible.Dans cet épisode, Jean-Baptiste nous ramène à l'origine de l'informatique pour comprendre :L'histoire improbable du cône orange qui a colonisé tous les ordinateurs de la planèteCe que tout le monde devrait savoir avant de parler d'IAPourquoi il a refusé des dizaines de millions pour VLC et sa vision du businessSa méthode pour analyser une entreprise en 48 heures et ce qu'il regarde en premierComment déléguer sans perdre le contrôle, et recruter rapidementUn épisode crucial pour revenir aux bases et mieux utiliser ces nouveaux outils du quotidien.Vous pouvez contacter Jean-Baptiste sur Linkedin.TIMELINE:00:00:00 : L'histoire du cône le plus connu au monde00:08:08 : Kyber, la machine qui contrôle d'autres machines00:18:13 : 42 est le meilleur âge00:27:27 : Comment récupérer n'importe quel fichier effacé00:31:06 : 10 minutes pour comprendre les bases de l'informatique00:38:33 : Apprendre par cœur ne sert plus à rien00:52:20 : « C'est normal si t'as envie de jeter ton bébé par la fenêtre »00:57:13 : L'origine de VideoLAN01:08:37 : Le seul business model qui fonctionne vraiment en open source01:19:12 : Comment la CIA a détourné le logiciel le plus téléchargé du monde01:30:18 : Il pouvait vendre VLC. Il ne l'a pas fait.01:37:59 : Sa méthode pour analyser n'importe quelle entreprise en 48 heures01:46:32 : « Xavier Niel refait mon business plan en 5 heures »02:00:11 : Le secret de JBK pour gérer plusieurs projets02:08:25 : Déléguer, c'est accepter de perdre le contrôle02:19:19 : Son astuce de recrutement pour gagner du temps02:26:32 : Le logiciel pour contrôler les robots02:35:57 : Le problème de la French Tech02:45:55 : Vaincre le syndrome de la page blanche grâce à l'IALes anciens épisodes de GDIY mentionnés : #500 - VO - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - How to master humanity's most powerful invention#500 - VF - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - Comment dompter l'invention la plus puissante de l'humanité#487 - VO - Anton Osika - Lovable - Internet, Business, and AI: Nothing Will Ever Be the Same Again#487 - VF - Anton Osika - Lovable - Internet, Business et IA : rien ne sera jamais plus comme avant#480 - Octave Klaba - OVH Cloud - La guerre du Cloud commence#452 - VO - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - "We are more Homo technicus than Homo sapiens"#452 - VF - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - L'humanité 2.0 : Homo technicus plus qu'Homo sapiens#421 - Jean-Charles Samuelian - Alan - Aller jusqu'au bout de ses convictions et transformer l'essai#418 - Clément Delangue - Hugging Face - 4,5 milliards de valo avec un produit gratuit à 99%#401 - Emmanuel Macron - Président de la République - Les décisions les plus lourdes se prennent seul#397 - Yann Le Cun - Chief AI Scientist chez Meta - L'Intelligence Artificielle Générale ne viendra pas de Chat GPT#372 - Alexandre Jenny - Pixfield - L'incroyable histoire du geek de Chambéry derrière la GoPro 360#353 - Stanislas Polu - Dust - La vérité sur ce que l'IA nous réserve#260 - Jean-David Blanc - Molotov - Le surdoué de l'informatique qui a fondé AlloCiné et Molotov en anticipant les grandes évolutions des médias#238 - Clément Delangue - Hugging Face - Démocratiser le machine learning pour impacter des milliards d'individusNous avons parlé de :Le fonds Ovni CapitalFierPapa, le guide Canadien des nouveaux papaL'histoire du token ringVault 7Le vélo BabboeLe cloud gaming de ShadowHugging Face : l'autre licorne française de l'IABending Spoons, la startup italienne qui valait 3 milliards d'eurosOSS 117 : Rio ne répond plusLe logiciel open-source pour automatiser sa maisonA La French : Le podcast de Jean-Baptiste Kempf, Mehdi Medjaoui et Steeve MorinLa HaineLes recommandations de lecture :The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams

184 Hospice Explained: Lisa Snyder on Legal Psilocybin Facilitation, Grief Support, and Designing End-of-Life Conversations Host Marie Betcher, a registered nurse and former hospice nurse, interviews Lisa Snyder, a state-licensed psilocybin facilitator in Oregon and member of the Portland Grief House Death Collective. Lisa shares how losing both parents to cancer led her to found the Losing Your Parents online community and to support others through grief, trauma, and life transitions. She explains why guided psilocybin "journeys" emphasize preparation, trust, and "set and setting," and discusses potential benefits for PTSD, depression, anxiety, and end-of-life anxiety, while noting legal-model limitations and timing considerations for terminally ill clients. Lisa describes death doula training, the importance of normalizing truthful end-of-life planning conversations, and balancing a dying person's wishes with survivors' needs. She outlines Oregon's medical screening process and key contraindications, and provides her website and email for inquiries. 00:00 Welcome and Disclaimer 00:29 Meet Host and Guest 02:36 Lisa's Story and Work 03:36 Who Psilocybin Helps 04:14 Journey vs Trip and Facilitation 05:28 Set and Setting Explained 07:02 Psilocybin at End of Life 09:58 Designing Your Death 14:51 Lisa's Parents and Hospice Memories 17:30 Why Death Doula Training 21:34 Cannabis and Other Supports 23:18 Siblings and Shared Grief 25:49 Starting the Death Conversation 27:37 Advocacy and Family Dynamics 29:49 Funerals Are for the Living 33:09 How to Reach Lisa 33:57 Medical Screening and Safety 37:02 Death With Dignity and Closing lisa@liberadiate.com https://liberadiate.com/   If you want to help, you can donate to help support Hospice Explained at the Buy me a Coffee link   https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Hospice  Hospice Explained Affiliates & Contact Information Buying from these Affilite links will help support this Podcast.  Maire introduces a partnership with Suzanne Mayer RN inventor of the  cloud9caresystem.com,  When patients remain in the same position for extended periods, they are at high risk of developing pressure injuries, commonly known as bedsores. One of the biggest challenges caregivers face is the tendency for pillows and repositioning inserts to easily dislodge during care.(Suzanne is a former guest on Episode #119) When you order with Cloud 9 care system, please tell them you heard about them from Hospice Explained.(Thank You) Marie's Contact Marie@HospiceExplained.com www.HospiceExplained.com   Finding a Hospice Agency 1. You can use Medicare.gov to help find a hospice agency, 2. choose Find provider 3. Choose Hospice 4. then add your zip code This should be a list of Hospice Agencies local to you or your loved one.

“If 10 people say the Holy Spirit told them 10 different meanings, how do I know who's right?” A raw conversation on Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and the early Church.He tried to quit porn for the millionth time, sat down in silence, and opened the Bible at random. Proverbs 5 stared back like a warning with his name on it and that was the moment Tremayne Collins (https://www.instagram.com/tremaynecollins001/) stopped being a “fan” of church and started taking Christ seriously. What follows is a story of repentance, recovery, and rebuilding a life around Scripture, mentorship, and real spiritual discipline.Jeremy Jeremiah of Cloud of Witnesses talks with Tremayne Collins about leaving atheism behind, confronting a long battle with pornography, and finding a serious Christian life through repentance, recovery, and Scripture. Then we follow the questions that hit next when sincere Christians disagree on doctrine and church history starts pointing beyond modern Protestantism.• Tremayne's background in Lutheranism, then years away from faith• A moment in Proverbs 5 that sparks repentance and change• Porn addiction recovery, mentorship, and building daily Scripture habits• Why theological disagreement in non-denominational churches creates an authority crisis• Early church fathers and what they teach about Eucharist, baptism, and holiness• Orthodoxy's critique of Western innovations and why the Reformation happened• Purgatory, Mary, papal claims, and what Orthodoxy does and does not affirm• Why sola scriptura depends on later historical conditions and canon choices• A reading recommendation for comparing Protestantism, Catholicism, and OrthodoxyBut a new problem shows up fast: theology. In a non-denominational world, smart and sincere Christians can read the same passage and still end up in opposite places on salvation, assurance, righteousness, and church practice. Tremayne asks the question many people are afraid to say out loud: if everyone claims the Holy Spirit, how do you tell which interpretation is true? That question pushes us into church authority, the limits of private interpretation, and why “Bible alone” can feel impossible to live out without a coherent guide.From there we head into early church history, the church fathers, and the surprising discovery that writers like Irenaeus and Ignatius don't sound like modern Protestantism on the Eucharist and baptism. We also dig into Catholic vs Orthodox differences, the Great Schism, “innovations” in the West, and why Orthodoxy rejects purgatory. Along the way, we recommend Rock and Sand by Father Josiah Trenham for anyone who wants an Orthodox perspective on the Reformation and a grounded introduction to Eastern Christianity.If you're sorting through Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy or you're searching for the historic Christian faith, this conversation will give you better questions and clearer next steps. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves church history, and leave a review with your biggest sticking point: authority, Mary, purgatory, or something else?Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdhPlease prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses: https://www.patreon.com/c/CloudofWitnessesFind Cloud of Witnesses on Instagram, X.com, Facebook, and TikTok.Audio: https://cloudofwitnessesradio.buzzsprout.comPlease leave a comment with your thoughts!

In this illuminating episode of the Archetypal Tarot Podcast, host Cyndera Quackenbush sits down with sustainability pioneer Jaimie Cloud, founder of the Cloud Institute for Sustainability Education, to explore how our ways of thinking shape the future of life on Earth. At the center of the conversation is Cloud's lifelong journey: sparked by an experimental global education program in her youth and deepened through decades of observing planetary trends. Her new book, Response-Able: How to Live Well Over Time On Planet Earth, is not just a call to action but a guide to transforming how we think, teach, and lead in an increasingly complex world. Rather than focusing solely on environmental problems, Cloud introduces a powerful framework around mental models that are both unsustainable and sustainable. These are recurring patterns of thought—archetypal in nature—that unconsciously drive destructive behaviors, even when people have access to clear feedback. Through examples like the “Fish Game” simulation, she reveals a startling truth: people consistently make the same unsustainable choices, not from ignorance, but from deeply ingrained beliefs. Throughout the episode, Cyndera weaves in tarot archetypes to mirror these mindsets, bridging intuitive symbolism with systems thinking. Together, they explore how patterns like “maximizing gains for self,” “control,” and “everything is substitutable” distort our understanding of interconnected systems. Jaimie gently dismantles these assumptions, emphasizing that true sustainability arises from interdependence, collaboration, and respect for natural limits. A key insight emerges: sustainability is about alignment with how life actually works. Healthy systems thrive on diversity, mutual benefit, and dynamic balance. Attempts to dominate, control, or endlessly extract from these systems inevitably lead to collapse. Yet the tone remains deeply hopeful. Jaimie insists that the current trajectory is not inevitable. Because humans created these conditions, we also have the power to change them. The first, and most essential, step is a shift in thinking. The tarot imagery encapsulating each mindset will be revealed in a video version of the podcast available to subscribers at archetypalstories.substack.com/

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jill discusses steps toward radical acceptance. While we often want to avoid sitting with difficult emotions or thinking about painful situations, doing so can be an important path toward achieving radical acceptance and emotional healing. I've had one session with a therapist, and she used a subconscious imprinting technique in our work. Have you heard of this approach? How do I talk to my 37-year-old son, who becomes defensive when I discuss his bills? My husband has also tried stepping in by paying his rent at times. What advice do you have for my 57-year-old husband who has ADHD and does not like taking his medications? He says his mind never stops racing. You had a caller on Tuesday whose experience with a man in her small group at church giving unwanted hugs reminded me of how men in my life have also behaved inappropriately.

Chilly... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

Jason Byrne, SVP of Marketing at Crexendo, spoke with Doug Green, Publisher of Technology Reseller News, during the Channel Partners Conference & Expo about the company's growth strategy, brand evolution, and continued momentum in the channel. Byrne highlighted Crexendo's strong positioning in the cloud communications space, driven by its NetSapiens platform and a partner-centric model that empowers service providers to build and scale their own offerings. He emphasized that marketing plays a critical role in supporting partner success, helping them differentiate in a crowded market and effectively communicate value to end customers. “Our focus is on enabling partners to grow—both through technology and through strong, consistent messaging,” Byrne said. The conversation explored how Crexendo is investing in brand awareness and partner enablement, providing tools and resources that help partners accelerate sales and expand their reach. By aligning marketing initiatives with partner needs, the company is creating a more cohesive go-to-market strategy. Byrne also noted the importance of community within the Crexendo ecosystem, where partners collaborate, share best practices, and contribute to ongoing innovation. This collaborative approach strengthens the overall value of the platform and helps drive sustained growth. As discussions at Channel Partners continue to focus on differentiation and partner-led growth, Crexendo is positioning its marketing and platform strategy as a foundation for long-term success in the evolving cloud communications landscape. Learn more about Crexendo: https://www.crexendo.com/

This episode is brought to you by Hyperbolic and the MLflow team. Check out more information at hyperbolic.ai and MLflow.org.Why AI Coding Agents Are Moving to the Cloud — With Zach Lloyd, CEO of WarpZach Lloyd is the founder and CEO of Warp, the AI-native terminal and agentic development platform trusted by over a million developers. Before Warp, Zach was a product lead at Google on Google Docs — giving him a uniquely deep intuition for what it means to build truly collaborative developer tools at scale.Why Agents are Driving Software Development to the Cloud // MLOps Podcast #371 with Zach Lloyd, CEO of WarpWhat we cover:

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jim explains that when confronting someone—especially an adult child or a family member—we need to remain the calmest person in the room to have healthy, productive conversations. What can I do about my sister, who has guardianship of a child and two seniors, including my mom, but is excluding them from the rest of the family? Should I move my sister back in with me? She was in a car accident and placed in a residential home, but someone may be trying to scam her out of money. This is my second marriage. My wife recently accused me of having something going on with a former employee after looking her up on social media and saying she was attractive—how should I respond? My counselor and husband don't want me to have a relationship with my family because I have bipolar disorder and they say my family tears me down. How should I handle seeing my brother after I gave him money to keep him out of jail, but he didn't use it and kept asking for more?

A First Nations folktale from Canada about a young girl, whose teacher Cloud and Rain,shares all his magic and wisdom with her, so that one day, she is able to save her own people from a terrible danger.  A beautiful tale to spark discussions about the value of wisdom.  An episode from Journey with Story, a storytelling podast for children ages 4-10.  (duration 15 minutes) We have suspended our Patreon platform for now.  But, you can receive all of this month's coloring sheets by signing up for my newsletter and you will also receive some terrific resources for raising kids who LOVE to read.  Sing up for free now at www.journeywithstory.com If your little listener wants to ask us a question or send us a drawing inspired by one of our episodes, send it to us at instagram@journeywithstory.  Or you can contact us at www.journeywithstory.com.  We love to hear from our listeners. If you enjoy our podcast, you can rate, review, and subscribe at here Did you know Kathleen is also a children's picture book author, you can find out more about her books at www.kathleenpelley.com      

We asked for follow ups and you did not disappoint! On today's show we respond to listener comments and corrections on multicast, routing protocols, security, and more. We also have a technical correction for the RFC 1918 Class B private address range. A big thank you to everyone who sent in responses. If you'd like... Read more »

What happens when you stop trying to serve everyone, and start focusing on the right customers?In this episode, Corey Quinn sits down with Corey Quinn (yes, really) to talk about specialization, scaling service businesses, and the power of saying no. From growing a digital agency from $20M to $200M to escaping founder-led sales, this conversation dives into practical lessons for founders, marketers, and leaders looking to scale with intention.Show highlights: (00:00) Specialization Mindset(00:21) Show Intro and Sponsor(01:18) Two Corey Quinns(02:39) Guest Background and Book(04:41) Scaling a Service Agency(06:28) Inbound Limits and Outbound Shift(10:21) Cookie Gifting Breakthrough(12:12) Making Gifting Work(19:09) Retention Through Specialization(25:20) Founder Bottlenecks and Wrap UpLinks: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreyquinn/Sponsored by: duckbillhq.com

Cold shock coming.... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

Jake and Michael discuss all the latest Laravel releases, tutorials, and happenings in the community.Show linksUnitTest Attribute and More in Laravel 13.3.0Tim MacDonald's testing performance tipsPestPHP Intellisense in Laravel VS Code Extension v1.7.0Axios npm Package Compromised With Remote Access TrojanPHPantom: A Fast PHP Language Server Built in RustPhpStorm 2026.1 ReleasedPAO: Agent-Optimized Output for PHP Testing ToolsManage Laravel Cloud from the Terminal with the New Cloud CLIMatt Stauffer Joins the PHP Foundation Board — What It Means for LaravelJSON Alexander Gives Developers a Simpler, More Trustworthy Way to View JSON in the BrowserJSON HeroLaracon US 2026 AnnouncedFormRequest Strict Mode and Queue Job Inspection in Laravel 13.4.0Laravel Cloud Adds Path Blocking to Prevent Bots From Waking Hibernated AppsLaravel Starter Kits Now Include Toast NotificationsDrop in comments for Filament with CommentionsLog User Activity in Your Laravel App with Activity Log v5 Manage Software Licenses in Laravel with Laravel LicensingArtisanFlow: A Flowchart Engine for Laravel and Alpine.jsLaravel QuickBooks MCP Server: Connect QuickBooks Online to AI ClientsPretty PHP Info: A Modern Replacement for phpinfo()Passage: A Lightweight API Proxy Gateway for LaravelTutorialsBuild an AI Chat Agent with Laravel 12, MongoDB Atlas Vector Search, and Voyage AIShip AI with Laravel: Smart Ticket Triage with Structured OutputShip AI with Laravel: Stop Your AI Agent from GuessingMaking Laravel MongoDB Operations Idempotent: Safe Retries for Financial Transactions

Send us Fan MailVogue called Tracy Ellis Ross's afro a “cloud bob,” and I couldn't let that slide. Not because the photo wasn't stunning, but because that one little rename reveals a whole system: the way Black hair gets rejected as “too much” until it's repackaged with softer language for a wider audience. The hair didn't change. The narrative did. And when the narrative changes, so does who gets access, who gets praised, and who gets policed.As a hairstylist, I've watched Black women carry the weight of other people's opinions about our natural texture. I've seen the unlearning, the second guessing, and the feeling that something needs to be “fixed” just to be seen as professional. So when mainstream beauty media suddenly elevates the same coils and kinks under a trendy new term, it raises the question I can't ignore: was it ever about the hair, or was it always about who had the power to name it?I'm also pulling back to look at Black hair history, because this isn't just about a magazine caption. Our hair has always been tied to identity, community, and culture, and language is one of the first places that erasure slips in. This bonus finale closes season five while giving you a clear preview of season six: deeper conversations on texturism, racism, hair politics, and how perception shapes what the world calls “beautiful.”Subscribe so you don't miss what's next, share this with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a review telling me one word you wish people would stop using to describe Black hair.Support the showDo you have a story to share that's worth our listeners hearing, please fill out the Listener Letters Form and tell us your story! We would love to hear from you!Don't forget to follow Kinetra on Instagram @_hairwhatimsaying_ and check out her website Hair What I'm Saying for more.Please leave a review and rate the show. Let us know how we are doing!Support the Hair What I'm Saying Podcast

AudioCodes at Channel Partners: From Voice Infrastructure to Cloud Integration Platform, Podcast By Doug Green “We're not focused on one platform—we're focused on integration and flexibility across all of them.” At the Channel Partners Conference in Las Vegas, I caught up with Paul Hunsucker and Mitch Hirschkowitz of AudioCodes to talk about how the company has evolved—and where the opportunity lies for channel partners today. AudioCodes is one of those companies that nearly everyone in telecom recognizes, but its identity has shifted significantly over time. What began more than 30 years ago in the early days of VoIP—building media gateways, session border controllers (SBCs), and voice infrastructure—has now evolved into something much broader. Today, AudioCodes positions itself as a SaaS platform company focused on managing and integrating UCaaS and CCaaS environments. Rather than competing as a single-platform provider, the company is leaning into a multi-platform strategy—certified across ecosystems like Microsoft, Cisco, and Zoom—giving customers and partners flexibility in how they build and manage communications environments. That shift reflects a larger industry trend. Enterprises are no longer standardizing on a single vendor. Instead, they are assembling communications stacks that span multiple platforms, carriers, and applications. The challenge—and opportunity—for partners is making those environments work seamlessly. AudioCodes is targeting that exact problem. The company's platform approach allows partners to deliver integrated solutions while still giving customers the freedom to choose their preferred UCaaS or CCaaS provider. It also enables enterprises to retain elements of control they previously had in on-prem environments—such as managing SBCs or bringing their own carrier—while benefiting from the scalability of the cloud. For MSPs and channel partners, this creates a clear path forward. Rather than selling a single solution, the opportunity is to become the integrator—the trusted advisor who can stitch together platforms, ensure interoperability, and deliver a consistent user experience. Visit www.audiocodes.com

Realities Remixed, formerly know as Cloud Realities, launches a new season exploring the intersection of people, culture, industry and tech.As AI accelerates the shift from networks to ecosystems, organisations face a growing tension between fast‑moving technology and slower, socially driven organisational change. Success in the “Never Normal” will depend less on intelligence itself and more on leadership qualities, judgement, narrative, trust, and the ability to create space for corporate explorers to build the Day After Tomorrow, not just optimise today.This week, Dave, Esmee, and Rob are joined by Peter Hinssen, keynote speaker, author and lecturer and co-founder of nexxworks to explore how leaders navigating through rapid change, focused on transforming uncertainty into opportunities for growth and innovation.. TLDR00:41 – Guest introduction and overview of this week's theme 01:02 – Hangout: Episode 200! 06:25 – Dig in: Deep dive into the pace of change 14:17 – Conversation with Peter Hinssen on adaptive organisations and leadership styles 55:10 – Continuing the conversation about Tech 1:11:20 – Travel to Taiwan, Silicon Valley, and China GuestPeter Hinssen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phinssen/https://www.peterhinssen.com HostsDave Chapman:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/Esmee van de Giessen:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmeevandegiessen/Rob Kernahan:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-kernahan/ ProductionMarcel van der Burg:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcel-vd-burg/Dave Chapman:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/ SoundBen Corbett:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-corbett-3b6a11135/Louis Corbett:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/louis-corbett-087250264/ 'Realities Remixed' is an original podcast from Capgemini

Darkness Radio presents Supernatural News/Parashare: Violent Attacks & Conspiracies Edition w/Mallie Fox!This Week, Congress has finally taken notice of the numerous missing scientists and authorities in the UFO arena, and are calling for investigations!  A man is arrested for allegedly attempting to firebomb Sam Altman's home, and threatening OpenAI's headquarters... Wonder why you see Jesus in a piece of toast or faces in objects?  We'll explain!  And, the world's most famous Remote viewer and teacher of that skill has died... We talk about the legacy of Ed Dames today! Scientists finally agree on what psychedelics do to the brain!  Read the story here:  https://studyfinds.com/psychedelics-same-brain-pattern/Country star Kacey Musgraves saw a UFO while traveling on a plane recently, and we have the footage! And, before you get ready to tee off on her... someone did that, and she swung back, HARD! See her response, and the footage here:  https://bit.ly/3Q7pMFqPawtographs for Pooches is making its return to MN this summer, and members of Darkness Radio will be there!  Come out this June and investigate the Palmer House Hotel and help us raise money for the Tri-County Humane Society in St. Cloud, all while having an amazing weekend!  Get your tickets while they last:   http://pawtographsforpooches.com/Check out all things Mallie here:  https://www.paranormalgirl.com/Mallie has been expanding her reach, featured as a researcher and talking head on Strange Evidence on the Science Channel!  You can stream it on demand on Discovery + or on Max!  Get Max here:   https://bit.ly/469lcZHMake sure you update your Darkness Radio Apple Apps!and subscribe to the Darkness Radio YouTube page:  https://www.youtube.com/@DRTimDennisDarkness Radio Hoodies! Fleece Pants! Bucket Hats! Mugs! Glasses! and MORE!There are new and different (and really cool) items all the time in the Darkness Radio Online store at our website!  Check out the Darkness Radio Store!   https://www.darknessradioshow.com/store/#paranormal  #supernatural #paranormalpodcasts #darknessradio #timdennis #malliefox #paranormalgirl #strangeevidence #supernaturalnews #parashare  #ghosts  #spirits   #hauntings #hauntedhouses #haunteddolls #demons #supernaturalsex #deliverances #exorcisms #paranormalinvestigation #ghosthunters  #Psychics  #tarot  #ouija    #Aliens  #UFO #UAP #Extraterrestrials #alienhumanhybrid #alienabduction #alienimplant #Alienspaceships  #disclosure #shadowpeople #AATIP #DIA #Cryptids #Cryptozoology #bigfoot #sasquatch #yeti  #abominablesnowman #ogopogo #lochnessmonster #chupacabra #beastofbrayroad #mothman  #artificialintelligence #AI  #NASA  #CIA #FBI #conspiracytheory #neardeatheexperience 

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jacqui reminds us that so many people are living stressful lives because they're confining themselves to a box that God never intended for them to stay in. Live in the space of freedom that Jesus came to allow for us. I have complex PTSD and I’m an introvert; do I need a coach or counselor as we head into retirement and move to another state? When you give it over to God, how do you make peace last? I am the dad of twin adult daughters, and I feel peace momentarily but then it's gone. My 36-year-old son is an attorney and is considering suicide; this is his third attempt and I am on my way to see him. What can I do?

Malware has shifted from phishing expeditions to open source packages, domains, and repositories. Ned and Kyler welcome Jenn Gile, co-founder of Open Source Malware, to discuss how malware is making its way into open source software. Together they break down NPM compromises, AI-driven infiltration, malicious agent skills, and more. Episode Links: Open Source Malware –... Read more »

Malware has shifted from phishing expeditions to open source packages, domains, and repositories. Ned and Kyler welcome Jenn Gile, co-founder of Open Source Malware, to discuss how malware is making its way into open source software. Together they break down NPM compromises, AI-driven infiltration, malicious agent skills, and more. Episode Links: Open Source Malware –... Read more »

Warmer then colder.... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

SUMMARY: Have we reached a point where coding is a solved problem? And if so, what are the downstream effects on companies that need software to differentiate their business?GUEST: Brandon Whichard, Co-Host of Software Defined TalkSHOW: 1019SHOW TRANSCRIPT: The Reasoning Show #1019 TranscriptSHOW VIDEO: https://youtu.be/q0mksIKcBzkSHOW SPONSORS:ShareGate - ShareGate Protect. Microsoft 365 Governance, we got this!Nasuni - Activate your data for AI and request a demoSHOW NOTES:The New Kingmakers (Stephen O'Grady - 2014)Developer Growth Rates[Via ChatGPT]  A useful way to think about it:Typing code → mostly commoditizedDesigning systems → partially assistedOwning outcomes → still very humanTopic 1 - How many years into Public Cloud did we assume that Cloud had solved the IT problem? Topic 2 - Developers - what are we solving for?10% of time coding, mostly on the last 10-15% Lots of time in planning meetings (decoding requirements, resource planning, updates, etc.)Decent amount of time fixing, troubleshooting, technical debt reductionTopic 2a - Business people have unlimited ideas, and most ideas are money + techWhat would be their interface to problem solving without developers? (is this just a shift to consultants)Is this a massive opportunity for a great PaaS 3.0 company (e.g. is Vercel an example?)Topic 3 - [Hypothetical] Let's assume a fairly normal company fired all their software developers tomorrow. How long before they could get a moderately complex new application of integration into production? Topic 4 - Nobody likes to work on legacy code - missing source, missing engineers, etc. What do we call any code written by AI that was abandoned within the last 6-12 months? FEEDBACK?Email: show @ reasoning dot showBluesky: @reasoningshow.bsky.socialTwitter/X: @ReasoningShowInstagram: @reasoningshowTikTok: @reasoningshow

The episode reveals an accelerating structural shift toward infrastructure dependence and liability transfer in the context of AI and cloud adoption. According to analysis from Omnia and Synergy Research Group, hyperscalers such as Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are capturing a growing portion of global data center capacity, while real-world constraints—including finite GPU and power availability—are limiting expansion despite surging demand. This concentration makes the underlying compute power less elastic and more volatile, directly impacting how MSPs operationalize AI services. Vendors, meanwhile, are backing away from accountability for AI-driven outcomes, increasingly shifting risk and responsibility onto operators and integrators. Supporting evidence includes Omnia's report of a 29% year-over-year jump in global cloud infrastructure services spend, reaching $110.9 billion in Q4 2025. AWS revenue increased 24%, Azure 39%, and Google Cloud 50% in the same period. Synergy Research Group found that enterprise on-premises data centers dropped from 56% of global capacity in 2018 to 32% by the end of 2025, with projections to fall further to 19% by 2031. Over 800 new hyperscale data centers are in the pipeline, but constraints on power and electrical equipment mean growth is not limitless. New AI workloads—such as Z AI's GLM 5.1 model designed for autonomous, multi-hour tasks—underscore that demand is moving from short interactions to long-running processes, increasing unpredictability and operational risk. Additional developments reinforce this structural shift. TechCrunch reported that new tools are designed for prolonged AI workload monitoring, not just deployment, requiring persistent oversight and checkpoints. Microsoft's own Copilot terms flag the platform as for entertainment purposes only, disclaiming reliability and placing responsibility for business use on the operator. Research cited from Boston Consulting Group identified that 14% of workers using AI tools reported significant mental fatigue, with entry-level staff especially vulnerable. These trends highlight the operational and human governance burdens introduced by AI, which are not addressed by vendor promises. For MSPs and IT leaders, these mechanisms create immediate contract and operational risks. Overpromising capacity or reliability exposes providers to gaps in liability, especially since vendors disclaim responsibility for AI outputs. Service agreements should include explicit capacity constraint clauses and audit all AI tool deployments for vendor liability terms before renewals. Establishing governance, monitoring, and accountability as billable service layers is crucial; otherwise, these burdens will default to the MSP as unpaid liability. Hybrid and colocation strategies remain relevant for regulated clients who cannot wholly depend on hyperscalers. Moving forward, structured runtime quotas and compute governance may be required to manage risk as agentic workloads increase and vendor accountability recedes. 00:00 Cloud Capacity Crunch 03:53 Agentic AI Rises 05:32 Liability Shifts Down 08:34 Why Do We Care?  Supported by:  Nerdio ScalePad 

For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a

Cory tests Hawk on his basketball knowledge, Hawk digs up some old newspaper articles about a horrific tornado in the Sauk Rapids/St. Cloud area

Jeff Stanfield and Andy Shaver are joined by Ben Commodore of Cloud 9 Outfitters in Alberta. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, including discussions around Alberta's political climate and the idea of separation, as well as Ben's perspective from living and working north of the border.They also break down the exceptional waterfowl season Ben experienced, including the impact of a warm, dry winter that kept large numbers of birds in Canada, the noticeable boom in specklebelly geese, and the increasing challenges surrounding visas for American waterfowl guides looking to work in Canada.

Caller Questions & Discussion: JJ discusses that if you are experiencing loneliness and isolation, you should ask yourself: “Am I making the effort to reach beyond my comfort circle?” How do I detach—but still support—my 45-year-old daughter and my 2-year-old grandson who may be on the autism spectrum? My daughter and her husband are demanding support, including asking us to let them stay with my brother or give them my house. There is a man in my small group who keeps trying to hug me, and I am not okay with it. I am the youngest in the group, and he seems to target me. How do I love my 25-year-old daughter who struggles with mental health and has drained us financially? My two adult daughters argue, and it is interfering with our family get-togethers. How involved should I be in their ongoing conflict?

Dr. Patrick Micaroni is a pediatric dentist and practice owner from New York. We talk about just about every topic related to pediatric dentistry that you can think of, including:- How he bought an existing practice and kept the selling doc on as an associate- Why residency was truly "the good ol days"- Recurrent decay on teenagers- Why class IIs are terrible- Cloud-based dental software, pros and cons- Challenges of employing expensive hygienists in states where assistants can't coronal polishThis is a great casual episode where we vent about the common pitfalls that drive us crazy as pediatric dentists.

Unsettled.... Welcome to the DayWeather Podcast — your daily look at weather trends and impacts across the Western United States. Meteorologist Don Day breaks down the latest forecast patterns, temperature swings, storms, and seasonal trends affecting travel, industry, ranching, and recreation from the Rockies to the Pacific Northwest. #DayWeatherPodcast #WesternWeather #WeatherForecast #TravelWeather #RanchWeather #OutdoorForecast #RockyMountainWeather #LongRangeForecast #ElNino #WyomingWeather #ColoradoWeather #NebraskaWeather #UtahWeather #MontanaWeather #PacificNorthwestWeather       LINKS: Wonders of the Atmosphere (FREE PDF) Jan Curtis/Stanley David Gedzelman - https://www.stanrenaissanceman.com/BOOKS/WONDERS_ATMOSPHERE_BOOK.pdf Regional Travel Forecast - https://www.youtube.com/@dayweather https://www.cocorahs.org/ Cloud ebook - https://whatsthiscloud.com/ebook Jan Curtis Flickr Page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/cloud_spirit/ All New Highly Accurate TROPO Rain Gauge - USE CODE RAINDAY FOR 10% OFF https://measurerain.com  DayWeather Journal for Kids  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M57Y7J1?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860

Our 3 brave and wise heroes (including Cloud) make their way Northward with all 5 artefacts when suddenly they come under attack! Did I mention Zorrob makes a new best friend? Find links to all of our content & platforms here! Support us on Patreon! Watch us on Twitch! The Theme Song is "The Red Dragon's Inn" by Derek and Brandon Fiechter. The background music and ambient sounds are provided by Michael Ghelfi Studios.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Marc shares five practical ways parents can stay connected and set healthy boundaries with their adult children—even when those children are making unhealthy or destructive choices. I have a family member who has no filter, and I feel constantly disrespected and judged. Should I confront them? My husband's niece stopped talking to him two years ago and is now critically ill. If he's already tried reaching out, what else can he do to restore the relationship? Should I say anything about my friend being paid under the table? She's been doing it for 12 years—what's the right response?

Plus: Alibaba's new AI video-generation tool is leading a global ranking. And White House officials have warned staff not to place bets on prediction markets amid the Iran war. Danny Lewis hosts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fr. Mike explores the different symbols the faithful use when discussing the Holy Spirit, such as fire, water, and anointing. We examine how these symbols help us more fully apprehend the person of the Holy Spirit. Fr. Mike unpacks the meaning of each symbol, as well as each symbol's connection to the Old Testament. Today's readings are Catechism paragraphs 694-701. This episode has been found to be in conformity with the Catechism by the Institute on the Catechism, under the Subcommittee on the Catechism, USCCB. For the complete reading plan, visit ascensionpress.com/ciy Please note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children - parental discretion is advised.

Darkness Radio presents Repossessed: When Spirits Come Back From The Light with Paranormal Investigators/Podcasters/TV Personaities/Authors, Leitreanna Brown & Blaine Rohan!Leitreanna is an Empath Medium, a 4th generation Paranormal Investigator, and 9 time Author, who owns the All Access Network and has made multiple tv appearances on programs such as Repossessed, Haunted Hospitals, Family Spirits/Haunted Discoveries, and Monster Quest!Blaine is also an Empathic Medium and has been a paranormal investigator since 1985.  He has writtten two books with two books with two more on the way.  He is also the host of Family Spirit International and Cryptid Nation.  Both teach Mediumistic courses at Piedmont Technical College and online! On today's Darkness Radio, we Lei and Blaine about their paranormal beginnings, we get into the specifics of the death process and why earth-bound spirits truly fear judgement, we break down Shadow people, Elementals, and malevolent spirits and their true origins, and more!Get more information on how to get readings from Leitreanna, The All Access Network programming, and Lei's books here:  https://www.leitreanna.com/Check out the programming of the All Access Network here:  https://www.youtube.com/@familyspirit96Visit our sponsor for some of the best BBQ (and Smoked Prime Rib) in the Midwest: https://jellybeanandjulias.com/Pawtographs for Pooches is making it's return to MN this summer and members of Darkness Radio will be there!  Come out this June and investigate the Palmer House Hotel and help us raise money for the Tri-County Humane Society in St. Cloud, all while having an amazing weekend!  Get your tickets while they last:   http://pawtographsforpooches.com/Make sure you update your Darkness Radio Apple Apps!and subscribe to the Darkness Radio You Tube page:  https://www.youtube.com/@DRTimDennisThere are new and different (and really cool) items all the time in the Darkness Radio Online store at our website! Check out the Darkness Radio Store!   https://www.darknessradioshow.com/store/#paranormal  #supernatural  #metaphysical  #paranormalpodcasts  #darknessradio  #timdennis #leitreannabrown #blainerohan #repossessed #hauntedhospitals #familyspirits #haunteddiscoveries #monsterquest #paranormalinvestigating #paranormalinvestigators #travelchannel  #discoveryplus #ghosts  #spirits  #spectres #hauntings #hauntedhouses #haunteddolls #paranormalconventions #paracons   #demons #deliverances #exorcisms #angels #guardianangels #spiritguides #Psychics #mediums #afterlife #heaven #neardeathexperience #crossingover

Darkness Radio presents Supernatural News/Parashare: Alien & Space Travel Extravaganza Edition w/Mallie Fox!This Week, An Icon in the world of UFOlogy has passed away...  Artemis II is on the tail end of its journey around the Moon!  A US Representative is telling the media that if we knew what he knows, we wouldn't sleep at night!  And, Drew Barrymore reacts to finding out that there is a ghost hanging out on the set of her talk show!Matt Gaetz came out on a recent podcast and claimed that a representative of the Armed Forces told him that the government is involved in Alien/Human hybrid breeding programs!   Check out the video here:  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/matt-gaetz-claims-aliens-mating-humans_n_69cc46dee4b0332f12c038bf?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=traffic&utm_campaign=farkA couple spot a ghostly figure on their baby cam after their child gets mysteriously scratched!  See the footage here:  https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/couple-spot-ghostly-figure-baby-36895009#google_vignettePawtographs for Pooches is making its return to MN this summer, and members of Darkness Radio will be there!  Come out this June and investigate the Palmer House Hotel and help us raise money for the Tri-County Humane Society in St. Cloud, all while having an amazing weekend!  Get your tickets while they last:   http://pawtographsforpooches.com/Check out all things Mallie here:  https://www.paranormalgirl.com/Mallie has been expanding her reach, featured as a researcher and talking head on Strange Evidence on the Science Channel!  You can stream it on demand on Discovery + or on Max!  Get Max here:   https://bit.ly/469lcZHMake sure you update your Darkness Radio Apple Apps!and subscribe to the Darkness Radio You Tube page:  https://www.youtube.com/@DRTimDennisDarkness Radio Hoodies! Fleece Pants! Bucket Hats! Mugs! Glasses! and MORE!There are new and different (and really cool) items all the time in the Darkness Radio Online store at our website!  Check out the Darkness Radio Store!   https://www.darknessradioshow.com/store/#paranormal  #supernatural #paranormalpodcasts #darknessradio #timdennis #malliefox #paranormalgirl #strangeevidence #supernaturalnews #parashare  #ghosts  #spirits   #hauntings #hauntedhouses #haunteddolls #demons #supernaturalsex #deliverances #exorcisms #paranormalinvestigation #ghosthunters  #Psychics  #tarot  #ouija    #Aliens  #UFO #UAP #Extraterrestrials #alienhumanhybrid #alienabduction #alienimplant #Alienspaceships  #disclosure #shadowpeople #AATIP #DIA #Cryptids #Cryptozoology #bigfoot #sasquatch #yeti  #abominablesnowman #ogopogo #lochnessmonster #chupacabra #beastofbrayroad #mothman  #artificialintelligence #AI  #NASA  #CIA #FBI #conspiracytheory #neardeatheexperience