Podcasts about biblical exposition

Biblical Exposition of John 14:1-3   Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.   John 14:1-3 stands as one of the most comforting and hope-filled passages in the New Testament, spoken by Jesus to His disciples on the eve of His crucifixion. These verses form part of the Farewell Discourse (John 13–17), where Jesus prepares His followers for His imminent departure. The words are tender and pastoral, addressing both immediate emotional distress and eternal hope.   Verse 1: "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me." The opening command, "Let not your heart be troubled," is a present imperative in the Greek implying a continuous action: "Stop being troubled, and do not allow yourselves to remain troubled." The disciples were understandably anxious. Jesus had just announced His departure (John 13:33), Peter's denial (John 13:38), and Judas' betrayal (John 13:21-30). Their world was unraveling, yet Jesus calls them to a posture of trust.   The phrase "ye believe in God, believe also in me" uses the verb pisteuete, as imperative ("believe"). Jesus is urging them to extend their trust in God to Himself. This establishes His divine authority and unity with the Father, a recurring theme in John (cf. John 10:30, 14:9). The call to faith is both a remedy for their troubled hearts and a foundation for the promises that follow. The heart is the seat of emotion, will, and intellect. Jesus addresses their emotional turmoil with a command to anchor their faith in Him. This sets the tone for the passage: trust in Christ's person and promises is the antidote to fear and uncertainty.   Verse 2: "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." This verse introduces the future hope central to the passage. The phrase "my Father's house" refers to heaven, the dwelling place of God (cf. Psalm 33:13-14; Isaiah 63:15). The term "mansions" translates the Greek (monai), meaning "dwelling places" or "rooms." While the KJV's "mansions" make one think of grandeur, the emphasis is on permanence and personal space within God's household, not necessarily a palatial spread.   The phrase "are many mansions" is in the present tense in Greek underscoring a current reality. Heaven's capacity is vast, with room for all of Christ's followers. Jesus' parenthetical remark, "if it were not so, I would have told you," reinforces His truthfulness and pastoral care. He would not allow His disciples to cling to a false hope.   The clause "I go to prepare a place for you" is most important. The verb "I go" is in the present tense, and "prepare" is in the future tense in Greek, but contextually it carries a futuristic present sense.    In Greek grammar, the futuristic present describes a future event with such certainty that it is spoken of as already occurring. Jesus' departure (via His death, resurrection, and ascension) is the means by which He will prepare this place, and the certainty of His mission is as good as accomplished.   The Personalized Place: The phrase "a place for you" is deeply personal. The "you" is plural, encompassing all believers, yet the singular word, “place.” suggests individuality. Christ is not preparing a generic dwelling but a tailored space for each believer within the Father's house. This reflects the intimate knowledge and care Jesus has for His own (cf. John 10:14, 27). The verb "prepare" implies deliberate, purposeful action, akin to a host readying a home for cherished guests. This act of preparation underscores Christ's ongoing intercessory work in heaven (Hebrews 7:25) and His role as the forerunner who secures our eternal home (Hebrews 6:20).   The image of "many dwelling places" counters any notion of exclusivity or scarcity in God's kingdom. The individualized "place" reveals Christ's tender care, as He crafts a space suited to each believer's unique identity and relationship with Him. This personalization is the pinnacle of divine love, showing that each child of God is constantly on Christ's mind, valued, and cherished for eternity.   Verse 3: "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." This verse completes the promise with the assurance of Christ's return. The conditional "if I go" is not doubtful but a first-class condition in Greek, assuming the reality of the action: "since I go." The verbs "prepare" and "will come again" are linked, showing that Christ's departure and return are part of a unified redemptive plan.   The phrase "I will come again" is in the futuristic present tense, emphasizing certainty. In Greek, this construction conveys that Christ's second coming is so assured it can be spoken of as a present reality. This is not wishful thinking but a divine guarantee. The verb “receive" means to take along or bring to oneself, evoking the imagery of a bridegroom claiming his bride (cf. Matthew 25:1-13). The purpose clause, "that where I am, there ye may be also," reveals the ultimate goal: eternal communion with Christ in the Father's presence.   The futuristic present tense underscores the certainty of Christ's promises. His preparation of our heavenly home and His return are as good as done, rooted in His unchanging character and sovereign power. The desire for believers to be "where I am" reflects the intimacy of eternal fellowship, fulfilling the prayer of John 17:24: "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am."   The Futuristic Present Tense: A Theological Anchor The use of the futuristic present tense in "I go" (v. 2) and "I will come again" (v. 3) is a grammatical feature with profound theological implications. In Greek, this tense describes future events with such certainty that they are presented as current realities. For example:   "I go": Jesus' departure to the Father via the cross and ascension is certain, initiating the preparation of our heavenly home.   "I will come again": The second coming is so sure that it is spoken of as if already unfolding.   This tense reflects the divine perspective, where God's promises are not bound by human time. Isaiah 46:10 declares that God "declares the end from the beginning," and Jesus, as God incarnate, speaks with the same authority. The futuristic present assures believers that their heavenly home and Christ's return are not distant possibilities but guaranteed realities. This grammatical choice comforts the disciples (and us) by presenting the future as a present fact, alleviating fear and instilling hope.     The Personalized Place: The Pinnacle of Christ's Love The promise that Jesus prepares "a place for you" is a vivid expression of His tender care. The individualized nature of this place is not a mere architectural detail but a theological statement about Christ's love. Consider the following:   Intimate Knowledge: Jesus knows each believer personally (John 10:3, 14). The preparation of a unique place reflects His awareness of our individuality—our personalities, preferences, and redeemed identities.   Deliberate Care: The act of preparing (hetoimazō) suggests effort and intentionality. Christ is actively involved in readying our eternal home, akin to a carpenter crafting a bespoke piece (cf. Hebrews 11:10, where God is the "builder and maker" of the heavenly city).   Eternal Value: To assign each believer a personal space in the Father's house affirms our infinite worth in Christ's eyes. We are not faceless members of a crowd but cherished individuals, each with a place in God's eternal plan.   Relational Intimacy: The goal is to be "where I am" (v. 3), indicating that the place is ultimately about proximity to Christ. The personalized dwelling is a means to eternal communion with Him.   This personalization is the "pinnacle of His care," as it demonstrates that believers are constantly on Christ's mind. Psalm 139:17-18 speaks of God's thoughts toward us as vast and precious; Jesus' preparation of a place embodies this truth. Throughout eternity, we will dwell in a home tailored by the Savior's hands, a testament to His unending love and respect for each of His children.   Blessings and Application for Today Blessings of John 14:1-3: Comfort in Distress: The command to not be troubled offers peace amid life's uncertainties. Christ's call to trust in Him is a balm for anxious hearts. Assurance of a Heavenly Home: The promise of "many mansions" assures believers of a secure, eternal dwelling in God's presence, personalized by Christ's loving hands. Certainty of Christ's Return: The futuristic present tense guarantees that Jesus will come again, ensuring our ultimate reunion with Him. Personalized Love: The individualized place reflects Christ's intimate care, affirming our value and His desire for eternal fellowship. Hope for Eternity: The passage points to the ultimate goal of being with Christ forever, fulfilling the longing for communion with God. Application for Today: Trust in Christ: When fears arise—whether about the future, personal struggles, or global crises—believers must anchor their hearts in Jesus' trustworthiness. Meditate on His divine authority and promises. Live with Hope: The certainty of a prepared place and Christ's return should inspire confidence. Let this hope shape your perspective, knowing that your eternal home is secure. Embrace Your Value: Reflect on the truth that Jesus is preparing a place just for you. This affirms your worth and calls you to live in gratitude for His love. Anticipate His Coming: While waiting for Christ's return, live with vigilance and purpose. Share the gospel, serve others, and pursue holiness, knowing that He will come again (Titus 2:13). Find Peace in His Presence: The ultimate promise is being "where I am." Cultivate intimacy with Christ now through prayer, worship, and obedience, anticipating the day when you will dwell with Him forever.   John 14:1-3 is a beacon of hope, illuminating the tender care and sovereign power of Jesus Christ. The personalized place He prepares reveals the depth of His love, as He crafts an eternal dwelling tailored to each believer's unique identity. This passage calls us to trust in Christ, rest in His promises, and live with expectant hope as we await His appearing.

A Biblical Exposition on the Bodily Resurrection of Christ: Its Meaning for the World and the Believer   The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, a historical and theological truth that reverberates through time, shaping the destiny of humanity and the hope of every believer. The resurrection is not merely a symbolic or spiritual event but a physical, bodily reality that validates Christ's identity as the Son of God, secures salvation for believers, and guarantees the future resurrection of all who trust in Him. Today we will explore the biblical teaching on Christ's resurrection, its implications for the world and the believer, the consequences if Christ had not risen (as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15), and the hope of our future resurrection grounded in His triumph over death   I. The Fact of Christ's Bodily Resurrection The resurrection of Jesus Christ is a well-attested historical event, recorded in all four Gospels (Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20–21) and affirmed throughout the New Testament. It was not a hallucination, a spiritual metaphor, or a myth, but a physical reality witnessed by many. John 20:27–29 “Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”   Jesus' invitation to Thomas to touch His wounds demonstrates the physicality of His resurrected body. This was no ghost or vision; Christ's body bore the marks of crucifixion, yet He was alive, speaking, and interacting. Thomas's response, “My Lord and my God,” reflects the magnificent weight of the resurrection: it confirms Jesus' deity and lordship.  The blessing pronounced on those who believe without seeing extends the resurrection's significance to all believers across generations, calling us to faith in the testimony of Scripture. Luke 24:39–40 “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.”   Jesus explicitly counters any notion that His resurrection was merely spiritual. His body was tangible, composed of “flesh and bones,” yet glorified, able to transcend physical limitations (e.g., appearing in locked rooms, John 20:19). The continuity of His body (bearing crucifixion scars) and its transformation (no longer subject to death) reveal the nature of the resurrection body—both physical and glorified. This is the prototype for the believer's future resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:3–8 “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.”   Paul's summary of the gospel emphasizes the resurrection as a historical fact, corroborated by multiple eyewitnesses. The appearances to Peter, the apostles, over 500 brethren, James, and Paul himself provide overwhelming testimony. The phrase “of whom the greater part remain unto this present” invites scrutiny, as living witnesses could be questioned at the time of Paul's writing.  The resurrection fulfills Old Testament prophecy (“according to the scriptures,” e.g., Psalm 16:10), anchoring it in God's redemptive plan.   II. The Significance of Christ's Resurrection for the World The resurrection of Christ is not an isolated event but a cosmic turning point with implications for all creation. It declares God's victory over sin, death, and Satan, and it reshapes the world's destiny.       Romans 1:4 “And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.”   The resurrection is God's public declaration of Jesus' divine sonship. It validates His claims to be the Messiah and the Son of God, distinguishing Him from all other religious figures. For the world, this means Jesus is the rightful Lord and Judge (Acts 17:31). The resurrection demands a response: acceptance of Christ's lordship or rejection, with eternal consequences.   Acts 17:30–31 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”   The resurrection establishes Jesus as the appointed Judge of all humanity. God's command to repent is universal, and the resurrection serves as “assurance” (proof) of Christ's authority.  For the world, this is both a warning and an invitation: judgment is coming, but salvation is offered through faith in the risen Christ. The resurrection thus reorients human history toward accountability to God. Colossians 2:15 “And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”   The resurrection is Christ's triumph over demonic powers. His death disarmed Satan's hold over humanity through sin (Hebrews 2:14–15), and His resurrection publicly humiliated the forces of darkness.  For the world, this means the power of evil is broken, and Christ's kingdom is advancing, ultimately culminating in the restoration of all creation (Romans 8:21).   III. The Significance of Christ's Resurrection for the Believer For believers, the resurrection is the foundation of salvation, sanctification, and eternal hope. It assures us of justification, empowers us for holy living, and guarantees our future resurrection. Romans 4:25 “Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”   Christ's resurrection is integral to our justification. His death paid the penalty for sin, but His resurrection confirms that God accepted His sacrifice. Because Christ lives, believers are declared righteous before God, forgiven, and reconciled. This is the bedrock of the believer's assurance: our standing with God is secure because Christ is risen.   Romans 6:4–5 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”   The resurrection empowers believers to live transformed lives. Through union with Christ, symbolized in baptism, we share in His death to sin and His resurrection to new life. This “newness of life” is not merely future but present, enabling us to overcome sin and live for God's glory. The promise of sharing in “the likeness of his resurrection” points to our future glorified bodies, but it also assures us of spiritual vitality now.     1 Peter 1:3–4 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”   The resurrection gives believers a “lively hope”—a confident expectation of eternal life. Christ's triumph over death secures our inheritance in heaven, which is imperishable and guaranteed by His resurrection.  This hope sustains believers through trials, knowing that our future is as certain as Christ's empty tomb. We do not clench a crucifix around our neck, or cling to a catechism, or a ritual— we are clinched in the hands of God through the resurrected Christ.   IV. The Consequences If Christ Had Not Risen (1 Corinthians 15) In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul addresses the Corinthian church's doubts about the resurrection, arguing that denying the resurrection of believers undermines the resurrection of Christ Himself. He outlines the devastating consequences if Christ had not risen. 1 Corinthians 15:12–19 “Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.”   Paul's logic is airtight: if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen, and the entire Christian faith collapses.    He lists the consequences: Preaching is vain (v. 14): The gospel message, centered on Christ's death and resurrection, would be empty and powerless. Evangelism would be a lie. Faith is vain (v. 14, 17): Belief in Christ would be futile, offering no salvation. Believers would remain “yet in your sins,” unforgiven and under God's wrath. Apostles are false witnesses (v. 15): The apostolic testimony, including Paul's own, would be a fabrication, making them liars about God's work. The dead in Christ are perished (v. 18): Those who died trusting in Christ would have no hope of eternal life; they are lost forever. Christians are most miserable (v. 19): If hope in Christ is limited to this life, believers who endure persecution and sacrifice for Him are pitiable fools. Paul's argument underscores the resurrection's centrality.    Without it, Christianity is a delusion, offering no forgiveness, no eternal life, and no purpose. But because Christ is risen, the opposite is true: preaching is powerful, faith is effective, the apostles are trustworthy, the dead in Christ are secure, and believers are the most blessed of all people.   V. The Hope of Our Future Resurrection The resurrection of Christ is the “firstfruits” (1 Corinthians 15:20) of the resurrection of all believers. His triumph over death guarantees our future resurrection and the ultimate redemption of creation. 1 Corinthians 15:20–23 “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”   The term “firstfruits” implies both priority and promise. Christ's resurrection is the initial harvest, guaranteeing the full harvest of believers' resurrection at His return. Just as Adam's sin brought death to all humanity, Christ's resurrection brings life to all who are “in Christ.” This order—Christ first, then His people—assures us that our resurrection is as certain as His. Philippians 3:20–21 “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”   The believer's future resurrection involves the transformation of our mortal bodies into glorified bodies like Christ's. This is not a mere spiritual existence but a physical reality, free from corruption and suited for eternal life. Christ's resurrection body—capable of eating (Luke 24:42–43) yet unbound by physical limitations—is the model for our own. 1 Thessalonians 4:14–16 “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” The resurrection of believers is directly tied to Christ's resurrection (“if we believe that Jesus died and rose again”). At His return, the dead in Christ will rise first, followed by living believers, all transformed to meet the Lord. This hope comforts believers, especially those grieving loved ones, assuring them of reunion and eternal life.   VI. Conclusion: Our Hope Rests on Christ's Resurrection The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is the linchpin of the Christian faith. It declares His victory over sin and death, validates His deity, secures salvation for believers, and promises the restoration of all creation. For the world, it demands repentance and faith in the risen Lord, who will return as Judge. For the believer, it assures justification, empowers holy living, and anchors our hope in an eternal inheritance.   The stark consequences outlined in 1 Corinthians 15—if Christ had not risen—highlight the resurrection's indispensability. Without it, our faith is vain, our sins remain, and our hope is lost. But because Christ is risen, our preaching is true, our faith is effective, and our future is secure. Our hope of future resurrection rests firmly on the fact of Christ's resurrection.  As the “firstfruits,” He guarantees that we, too, will rise to eternal life with glorified bodies, free from sin and death. This hope sustains us through trials, motivates us to live for Christ, and fills us with anticipation for His return.    Let us, therefore, echo the words of Job, confident in the risen Savior: Job 19:25–26 “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.” May we live in the power of Christ's resurrection, proclaiming His victory and awaiting the day when we shall be “fashioned like unto his glorious body” (Philippians 3:21), forever with the Lord. Amen.

Dr. Bob Eby is a 1996 graduate of Central Bible College and has a Ph.D. in Biblical Interpretation and Theology from the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary. He has held pastoral positions in three churches in Illinois, most recently serving as the lead pastor of Southwest Community Church in Shorewood, Illinois. He currently serves as the Director of Cordas C. Burnett Preaching Center, Associate Professor of Biblical Exposition and Preaching at the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary.

Join us for an engaging episode of Christ the Center as we sit down with Douglas Sean O'Donnell, pastor, theologian, and author of Expository Reflections on the Gospels: Mark. In this episode, we delve into O'Donnell's profound insights on the Gospel of Mark, exploring the unique theological and literary contours of this pivotal book of the New Testament. O'Donnell shares the inspiration behind his work, the challenges he faced, and the discoveries he made while writing this comprehensive commentary. We discuss key themes such as the identity and mission of Jesus, the importance of understanding His role as the Son of God, and how these insights can be practically applied in preaching and teaching. Whether you are a pastor, theologian, or layperson, this conversation offers valuable perspectives that will deepen your understanding of the Gospel of Mark. Listen to hear how O'Donnell's blend of scholarly precision and pastoral sensitivity provides a fresh, accessible approach to this gospel. Douglas Sean O'Donnell is the senior vice president of Bible editorial at Crossway. With a PhD from the University of Aberdeen and extensive experience teaching and preaching, O'Donnell brings a unique blend of scholarly rigor and pastoral sensitivity to his work. He has pastored several churches, served as a professor, and authored or edited over twenty books, including commentaries, Bible studies, children's books, and a children's curriculum. His works include collaborations such as The Pastor's Book with R. Kent Hughes and The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition with Leland Ryken. Chapters 00:07 Introduction 02:58 Working at Crossway 09:12 Current Status of the ESV 16:13 Expository Reflections 21:56 Relating the Gospels 28:56 The Authorship of Mark 31:40 Surprising Aspects of Mark 41:15 Unique Features of Mark 48:04 How to Use This Book 50:21 Future Projects 55:12 Conclusion

Jim Osman examines the significance of communion in 1 Corinthians 11:18-34, emphasizing its role as a divine institution and a memorial meal that symbolizes the unity of believers. He highlights how the Corinthian church's misuse of the Lord's Supper reflected deeper issues of division and selfishness. The focus is on understanding communion's true purpose and ensuring its observance worthily. The communion significance is essential for the church's unity and reflection on Christ's sacrifice. ★ Support this podcast ★

Jim Osman examines the significance of communion in 1 Corinthians 11:18-34, emphasizing its role as a divine institution and a memorial meal that symbolizes the unity of believers. He highlights how the Corinthian church's misuse of the Lord's Supper reflected deeper issues of division and selfishness. The focus is on understanding communion's true purpose and ensuring its observance worthily. The communion significance is essential for the church's unity and reflection on Christ's sacrifice. ★ Support this podcast ★

David Forsyth delves into saving faith in this sermon, as explained in James 2:14-26. He explores how true saving faith is not just about belief but is demonstrated through compassionate actions, love for God, and obedience. Forsyth emphasizes that saving faith must be active and visible in the lives of believers, providing practical examples from Scripture to illustrate his points. Paul's warnings to the Ephesians elders about false teachers and the necessity to protect the flock of God also frame this profound exposition. ★ Support this podcast ★

In the 335th episode of Expositors Collective, Mike sits down with Pastor Craig Babcock to discuss the unique challenges and opportunities of preaching through the book of Proverbs in an expositional manner. Both seasoned and novice preachers often find Proverbs challenging to preach (and Mike is no exception!) However, Craig, drawing from his PhD research, shares a transformative perspective on the book. Instead of viewing Proverbs as a collection of isolated maxims, Craig presents it as a progressive journey through a life—gaining knowledge and wisdom, being taught, and eventually becoming a teacher. This fresh understanding can be incredibly valuable for anyone looking to preach through Proverbs or simply wanting to deepen their grasp of this profound biblical book. In addition to this, the conversation delves into raising up the next generation of Bible teachers, offering solid insights and practical advice. And, for a bit of fun, Craig shares the unexpected benefits that come from wearing a suit and tie. Whether you're a preacher, a student of the Bible, or just curious about Proverbs, you're sure to enjoy this engaging and informative discussion. Craig Babcock attended Oregon State University and received a B.S. in Anthropology. He also holds an M.A. in Biblical Studies from Calvary Chapel University. Currently, Craig is a Doctoral Candidate at Liberty University in pursuit of a Ph.D. in Biblical Exposition. Pastor Craig has a heart for the local church and the Lord's people. Growing up in South Denver, Craig has spent the last 15 years of ministry as a pastor, church planter, and coach. Prior to being called into the ministry, Craig served in the Navy and in Law Enforcement. Craig's central focus of teaching is the Word of God and allowing the Lord to work in the lives of those who trust in Christ. Craig married his wonderful wife Christy in 2002, and they have three children. Craig enjoys running, being outdoors, and going on adventures. Resources for Proverbs -  Ansberry, Christopher B. Be Wise, My Son, and Make My Heart Glad an Exploration of the Courtly Nature of the Book of Proverbs. Berlin: De Gruyter, 2011. Bartholomew, Craig, and Ryan O'Dowd. Old Testament Wisdom Literature: a Theological Introduction. Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2011. Clements, Ronald E. Proverbs. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2019. Crenshaw, James L. Old Testament Wisdom: an Introduction. Third edition. Louisville, Ky: Westminster John Knox Press, 2010. Fox, Michael V. Proverbs: an Eclectic Edition with Introduction and Textual Commentary. Atlanta, GA: SBL Press, 2015. Gane, Roy. Old Testament Law for Christians : Original Context and Enduring Application. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, a division of Baker Publishing Group, 2017. von Rad, Gerhard. Wisdom in Israel. Translated by Mark D. Petering. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania: Trinity Press International, 1972. Waltke, Bruce K., and Ivan D. V. De Silva. Proverbs A Shorter Commentary. Chicago: Eerdmans Publishing Co., 2021. Witherington, Ben. Jesus the Sage: the Pilgrimage of Wisdom. Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 1994. CLICK HERE to give to the Uganda Expositors Collective Conference The Expositors Collective podcast is part of the CGNMedia, Working together to proclaim the Gospel, make disciples, and plant churches. For more content like this, visit https://cgnmedia.org/ Join our private Facebook group to continue the conversation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ExpositorsCollective Click here to support Expositors Collective

Dr. Tony Evans says success in any task hinges on preparation whether it's cooking a meal, organizing a work presentation, or studying the Bible readiness is key. Don't miss this practical presentation for pastors and Bible teachers in this powerful message. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/222/29

Dr. Tony Evans says success in any task hinges on preparation — whether it's cooking a meal, organizing a work presentation, or studying the Bible — readiness is key. Don't miss this practical presentation for pastors and Bible teachers in this powerful message.

Dr. Tony Evans says success in any task hinges on preparation — whether it's cooking a meal, organizing a work presentation, or studying the Bible — readiness is key. Don't miss this practical presentation for pastors and Bible teachers in this powerful message.

A lot of what passes for "truth" these days really isn't. In this message, Dr. Tony Evans describes the life-changing power of God's word and how people's lives are transformed when challenged with the timeless truth of scripture. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/222/29

A lot of what passes for "truth" these days really isn't. In this message, Dr. Tony Evans describes the life-changing power of God's word and how people's lives are transformed when challenged with the timeless truth of scripture. 

A lot of what passes for "truth" these days really isn't. In this message, Dr. Tony Evans describes the life-changing power of God's word and how people's lives are transformed when challenged with the timeless truth of scripture. 

A survey of Old Testament in New Testament text and support of the Seventh Day Sabbath as the only Sabbath recognized in Scripture. This is audio is extracted from a video on my YouTube channel, Voices in the Garden.

How should the genre of Scripture shape and inform the way a sermon sounds or is preached? Join Jake and Saolomon in their conversation with Dr. Doug O'Donnel who currently serves as the Senior Vice President of Bible Editorial and Chaplain at Crossway and is the author of the book "The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition." "The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition"- https://www.crossway.org/books/the-beauty-and-power-of-biblical-exposition-tpb/ Email us questions or topic ideas at preachingforthelonghaul@gmail.com

Today, Dr. Doug O'Donnell joins me in the studio as we discuss how to preach the literary artistry and genres of the Bible. Doug serves as Senior Vice President of Bible Editorial at Crossway in Wheaton, IL. He is the author of The Pastor's Book, The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition, and several others.

Would you say that your thoughts are more positive or negative? Too often we underestimate the damage that negative thinking and toxic beliefs have on our faith. Barb's guest author, speaker and music artist Denise Pass discusses how to overcome negative mindsets and position ourselves fully in God's truth and how we can live that out. As one who has faced some of life's greatest disappointments and heartaches, Denise offers powerful Scriptural insights and hope for you today.   RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE denisepass.com Make Up Your Mind: Unlock Your Thoughts, Transform Your Life Connect with Denise on IG! Connect with Denise on FB! Listen to Denise's Podcast!   ABOUT OUR SPECIAL GUEST Biblical mindset coach, author, speaker, worship leader, songwriter, and podcaster, Denise Pass holds an MA in Biblical Exposition and is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Biblical Exposition at Liberty University. Denise is the author of Make Up Your Mind, Shame Off You, 31 Days of Hope Reinvented and creator of The Bible Tribe® podcast. Denise serves on the writing teams for P31 First 5 app and COMPEL blog, and writes for her ministry, Seeing Deep Ministries, encouraging women to overcome the battles of the mind with the word of God, heal shame and find hope in God's word. Denise has also written songs that received radio play, including “You Are Worthy,” “Seeing Deep EP”, and songs from her album, Praying For You. Denise homeschooled her 5 children and she and her husband serve together at their church in Spotsylvania, VA, where Denise is the Director of Family Ministries and Worship Arts.  

This is The On Preaching Podcast, the podcast dedicated to helping you preach faithfully, clearly, and better.  In this episode, H.B. talks about the ministry of application. A biblical sermon should consist of explanation, illustration, and application.  We are prone to skip over application, or do it wrong. It is critical that preachers take application seriously and work to do it effectively.  How can I practice the ministry of application effectively?  Apply the text. Pray for wisdom.  Know your audience.  Make pastoral applications.  Ask probinh questions. Craft your application.  Illustrate for application.  Address different categories.  Apply throughout the sermon.  Trust the Holy Spirit.  BOOK RECOMMENDATION: "Preaching that Changes Lives" by Mike Fabarez For HBC2 resources, visit hbcharlesjr.com

INTRODUCTION: In today's episode John M. Verner and Ms. Patrice help me navigate a discussion on my new book, Don't Call Me A Christian: What Does That Word Even Mean? This is a completely free book and can be found at SexDrugsAndJesus.com.  JOHN VERNER'S BIO:  I hold a Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Exposition, with an interdisciplinary in Literature, from Moody Bible Institute. I was one of two recipients of the MBI Homiletical Jury Award for outstanding preaching in 2016. I have experience as a youth pastor, pastoral intern, academic journal editor, and guest speaker. I used to be a part of the largest cult in the United States. In 2019, I published my first book, The Cult of Christianity, as a first step in addressing the subtle issues of this complex system. In 2021, I continued my work with this podcast!   INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      A Review Of My New (FREE) Book·      Raising Children With Inconsistent Religious Information·      The Effects Of Religious Trauma ·      Truth Is Found Outside The Church·      The Birth Of The Bible·      Is The Word “Christian” Really Worth It CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website, Social Media & Books: https://linktr.ee/thecultofchristianity  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sexdrugsandjesusYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SDJPodcast.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT:[00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello all my children and welcome back to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. In today's episode, John m Vanier from the Cult of Christianity podcast is Back with us, along with Ms. Patrice, and they're here to help me navigate a deep discussion into my new book, which is called Don't Call Me a Christian.What does That word even mean? This book is completely free and it can be found at my website, sex Drugs, and jesus.com. [00:01:00] In this episode, we're gonna talk a lot about the effects of religious trauma, whether or not the word Christian is really worth it, the birth of the Bible, and just so many things. . Hello everyone and welcome back to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. I'm your host with the most Savannah that I have with me, the wonderful and great, incredible, beautiful, Patrice. And then we also have the powerful and very well learned in edge Ed John m Vane. How are y'all doing today?Pat: We are doing well. What about you? Good to hear you.De'Vannon: I am marvelous darling, and living my best life. Everything's just gonna get better from here on out.Pat: Yes.De'Vannon: Now y'all are both in the greater Atlanta area and I think that it's really, really cool. How's the weather over there today?[00:02:00]John: Rainy.Pat: Yeah, it's overcast. Just kind.John: it's been, it's been rather warm, which is great, but the past two days, it's been very, very rain.Pat: Just about. Yeah.De'Vannon: that's how springbegan. Pat: you?De'Vannon: It's like partly cloudy, no rain in the forecast. So I've been out there, you know, personally watering my garden and everything. But, so what was I gonna say about Atlanta? Hmm.Pat: And it's the.De'Vannon: we'll circle back to Tyler Perry Studios in just a moment. I was about to dare to do like a tie-in before we explained everything, because I really, really, really like talking about Tyler Perry.But but we'll, we'll circle back in just a second. So, so on today's show, everybody you wanna be talking about, this new book that I wrote, it's called Don't Call Me a Christian. What does that word, any, what does that word even mean? And John has read. Patrice has read it and they're gonna let me have it one way or the other and tell 'em if they really, [00:03:00] really hated it.I really, really couldn't get enough of it, and hopefully they got the point. And so is there anything that y'all would like to tell people about your own personal background, history or anything like that before we get into the book?Pat: For me, I'm actually born Catholic, Roman Catholic. I've deviated from it over the years. I am way past 50 and, you know, have lots of questions that have not been answered by the church. John, you have anything to jump in and say?John: Yeah. Yeah, so if, if y'all have heard me before basically I, I studied to be a pastor and then various stories, left the faith myself and now you know, do a lot of work to investigate colts and religions. And yeah, I'm always happy to talk about this stuff. So I'm excited to get.Pat: Great,De'Vannon: Okay, so let's hop right into it. Let's, let's take a [00:04:00] look at the book. I pride myself on designing very enigmatic book covers or polarizing. I wanna know what each of you thought of it and if, if you picked up on the points I was trying to make, or did it all just kind of look like it was thrown together.John: Nothing ever looks thrown together. It looks like you put a lot of thought into it. I, I, I honestly get a lot of like, almost like frustration and angst from the cover. Like, but, but the weird sense of reverence too, because there's a lot of you know, classically Christian imagery in it. You know, I didn't, I don't read too much into the book covers.They say you shouldn't judge a book by it. So I didn't read too much into it, but but I like it.De'Vannon: Thank you very much. What about you, Patrice?Pat: I actually, you know, now looking at it strange enough, I am not a book cover person. I [00:05:00]look at it just to see the name and then I go right into its contents. Now looking at it, I'm seeing that there's, you know, a lot of things you've put in it. So it's a, a visual manifestation of what you're thinking about the church of old, of, you know, some freedom on the bottom.There's just so much going on when you look at it. So I really did not see the effort, but now I do. As you draw attention to it, there's a lot of, there's a lot going on that I can actually accept, if that makes sense to you. I'm accepting everything that's there. It's not like it's just thrown together.It's purposely put,De'Vannon: Okay. When you say there's freedom on the bottom, what do you mean?Pat: I'm looking at the bird in the cage and he has freedom. So it, it's, it's so many different moving [00:06:00] pods that I'm actually looking at right now, that I'm seeing the body, you know, it's like there's blood, there is the chalice, there is, you know, light, there is the, the dove. Well, well the bird, there's the freedom of the bird.I'm, that's my interpretation.De'Vannon: Right. SoPat: mine.De'Vannon: you know what? You're spot on. That's exactly what I was going for with that bird. I view that cage as. Entrapment. You know, you can call it the church, you can call it the dogma. You can call it the mindset behind it. And the, you see the cage is open, but the bird hasn't necessarily left yet.Pat: Right? Correct.De'Vannon: You know, nobody puts a gun to our head and makes us go to said church or 10 said religion or be a part of said denomination.And even though, like when I was there, there was so much that I hated, I didn't like, I felt uncomfortable and I compromised and I said, well, I'm just gonna stay here anyway, you know? But the church was not like the military, you know, I couldn't leave the military when I [00:07:00] wanted to, but I could have walked away from a church at any moment.And rather, but rather than do that, I stayed.Pat: Correct.De'Vannon: Let me see, what else can I talk about? I'm not gonna talk about everything. Go ahead, miss Patrice, you wannaPat: No, no, no. I said that is exactly what, you know, you're seeing in this, when you look at it, you do have that freedom to leave, you know, but then you also put in the spider web that is just showing that, you know, it's, it's something that's old, it's something that's, I wouldn't say crusty, but it's just we have just fell into such a funk that we are not gonna leave.We're gonna leave everything as it is. Even if it just, it just be, it decays. . So me looking at it now, I'm thinking, okay, it looks like there is a decay in the religion, but we still stay where we are. We're comfortable, we're safe, we're not gonna move.[00:08:00]De'Vannon: Mm-hmm. . And yet none of this was meant to be disrespectful to the church or Christianity or anything like that. But like the, the, the whole, and this is technically like a kind of an altar, so to speak, in. The whole premise of this, like you said, is looks a little outdated. Like it is kind of like it's been setting there.The blood is very vibrant because it still works,Pat: Mm-hmm.De'Vannon: but the webs and the whole, like the fog and everything represent the confusion that has entered into Christianity and kind of taken over it. And so that, that was the point of the book, was to talk about what a Christian really is and isn't, and the impacts that the, that dichotomy has had on the world.John: Did you put the word Christian in blood font? Because of all the blood that's been that under the banner of Christian has been.De'Vannon: I was thinking more of what a horror show it's become, but you know, the crusades or, or [00:09:00] the actual, literal, literal blood that has been shed, and then the mental and emotional blood that has been shed fit there too. This is a bloody business. This is a bloody business., okay, so I'm gonna get getting more from you Patrice, on like, when you left the church, you said that you grew up Catholic and then at some point, I know you took your kids out of the Catholic church because of how the priests were and everything like that. Can you talk to us about that?Pat: Yeah, sure. Okay. Growing up, we were staunch Catholics. You know, you go Thursday evening, Sunday morning, you had to go to church. It was the standup, sit down, knee, down, the same thing, just, you know, over and over and over. There was not very much in the standing, it was just whatever was, you know, spoken to you or told to you.You believe there was no, you know, you did not ever question anything. Mask for me was in, it was in [00:10:00] Latin, so you barely understood it. You just went through the motion. I ended up having, you know, you had to stay married to somebody in your religion as well. That's not part of the Roman Catholic Church, but it's part of being like a staunch Catholic.De'Vannon: Mm-hmm.Pat: along years after, you know, we had kids. and we couldn't explain to our children what was the process of this going to church and religion and we had no understanding to impart to our kids. We went on basically, let's say a quest. So my husband and I, we went on this quest trying to understand the meaning of God through the church.We were in college. You stumble upon the block of history. You start going to history classes and they start teaching you a lot more [00:11:00] about questioning God. We had no answers. So everywhere we turned to, we didn't get an answer. We didn't get an appropriate answer. What we got was versus was the interpretation from the church of what we were trying to get.We didn't get like a full stop answer. It was just, Like a quest onto the next question. So we lost faith and in turn we couldn't put our kids on the same path that we were on. We were like the, you know, like a little hamster. We were just on that little treadmill just going around and around and around.How could we impart this docket? We did not know what to impart. We did not know the true meaning of Christianity to start. How could we become [00:12:00] Catholics to end? We had no beginning and we had no end. We had no answers to questions. We were just confused, frustrated, and at that point could not really in good faith, continue.This trend, it's, we went nowhere basically. I hope that answers it. It's, you know, fundamentally what we had going on in our minds was we had no an, we never had an answer. And the answer you would get constantly would be somebody else's interpretation. It's not science. We understood. It's not science.There's never a tr a true, you know, one plus one is two. It, it was somebody's interpretation of it. and it just didn't swing. And then along came the [00:13:00] corruption being unraveled in the Catholic church with, you know, the priests with all these things. It also cast another fair in our minds in that, you know, you have sons and you don't know what could happen to them in the church.That we felt compelled at the time that this is not the place for us, we could just worship at home. And that's where, you know, that's where we've been and that's where we still are. We have moved our needle ahead at all. We are still in the same predicament, literally maybe 20 years in. So I hope that helps.De'Vannon: John, anything you have to say about what she said?John: Yeah, I'm just, I'm, you know, sorry for the experience of, of what I would call religious trauma, of being told that something is definitely true, that doesn't make sense. [00:14:00] And then being left with that confusion and being left with that feelings of like betrayal of trust, not just, you know, interpersonally with people you might have met, but with like the whole system with the, you were told that a story about how the world is, about how how Christianity or Catholicism came about.And then meanwhile there was severe coverups going on. And that that's something you can't just shake off and move on from. That's, that can be very earth shattering. So, I'm sorry you went through.Pat: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's, it's like if you dig a little deeper into it, you start realizing that, you know, it's at the same time they're trying to teach you. Catholicism, but then they're also put in Santa Claus, they put in the Easter Bunny. They put in all these things. So you have, as a [00:15:00] child, a belief, you believe in these things you really believe until that's shattered.And then you realize, okay, the only thing you had to support you at the time was religion. And then that becomes shattered. So what actually is true? Is there anything true? There's no truth to, basically, I feel like there's no truth to life because everywhere along your way of, you know, when you're an adolescent, when you're a child, you're an adolescent, you've been fed all these different things that you unraveled to be untrue.So now where is the truth? It has been dashed away from you. and you can't recover it. So you now have to find a good support system in that, you know, your spouse, who can actually have the same mindset as yourself, who can just say, look, just [00:16:00] even if you turn away from the religion, still believe in God.And as I said, that's where we are. We just believe in God, but we don't believe in the religion. You know, that's trying to put it together. It's like, it's like a, it's super gluing faults, so you just super glue all the faults in the world and you, you know, bring it to us as religion. Instead, we need to figure out what is actually true to ourselves and believe it.And just, you know, I, I don't know the correct word,De'Vannon: Why, why?Pat: you know,De'Vannon: why? Why do you, why do you believe truth can't be recovered? Who do you, who do you believe owns truth?Pat: We own our own truth. We have to own our own truth.De'Vannon: Well, for, to me there's a difference between owning [00:17:00] truth and discovering it. Discovery is more like a journey to discover knowledge. It almost sounds like you're saying because you no longer have a relationship with the church, truth is out of reach.Is that what you're saying?Pat: No, actually I'm saying I, I don't know how to put. , I don't know how to put it. I'm sorry.John: I can, I can offer a perspective on this that, that might be different than both of y'all's. For, for one, I don't definitely believe in a God. I don't necessarily, I'm, I'm, if you want to call it agnostic, you can, but I just, I don't, I don't think I need to believe in God personally. So for me, what truth boils down to is an unknowable thing, right?Like if, if, if we're talking in a, with absolute certainty, no human being can know the truth behind all things, [00:18:00] we will die believing some lies. But what is definitely possible is to discover certain things. are more likely to be true than others in, in that sense, if you're using the word truth more as like a spiritual reality, a purpose or something like that, that I agree is very individualistic.But if we're talking about more truth in, in regards to like what really happened, what really happens, there are best guesses when we look back at history, there are best guesses when we look at what's going on right now, there are ways to verify things and, and there is some science to it and there's some art to it. But it is possible what the church has done that's really damaging to many, many people is warped their v warps, their confidence in their abilities to actually know what is true. . People can learn a lot of things but churches need [00:19:00] people to not learn a lot of things in order for their messaging to work. The more ignorant their congregation is, the easier they are to control for their own purposes. So, so that's the comment I wanted to put forth is I think not only does truth exist outside of the church, I think that's the only way you can get to truth, is if you get outside of a church.Pat: Correct,De'Vannon: Because the church, cause the church has an agenda. So so Patrice, what I'd like to know is, do you think it's possible that your kids were molested before you got them out of the church?Pat: No, not at. Only, the only reason I would say that they were baptized into the church and they were what, maybe a week or two weeks old at the time we got outta the church, literally when they were about, EH, [00:20:00] four, and four. And they were always with us. So, you know, I didn't, I had that fair. So I don't think we even went past three or four years old when we couldn't answer questions for them because the, my truth started to be muddled when I started to have to tell them about, try to teach them, you know, some of the prayers and I was just doing.In rotation with my husband. We were just saying the same prayers over and over. We didn't understand we, what we were saying. We had no clue. We had nothing to back up what we are saying, some we were even seeing in Latin. So we, we, we did not know what to do. So I do not believe at the time that they would've been molested because of the fact that they were not in that church left alone without [00:21:00] us.De'Vannon: Okay. Well that's, that's very refreshing to hear. Sometimes it happens, you know, and you know, we don't find out till like, later, later, later. I didn't realize they were that young when you had taken them out. For some reason I was thinking they were close, closer to their teens.Pat: No, no, no, no, no, no. That's why, sorry, go ahead.De'Vannon: so, so, so you said you had some questions that you still have for the church now John's a bible scholar.He used to, you know, be very high up in churches and stuff like that. Do you have a question you'd like to pose that maybe he can help you?Pat: Well, you know what? Let me start from the beginning. I have always questioned literally the, you know, how do they, how do we get about to this Bible? Where did we start? That's my first question. Who wrote it? Is there any concrete evidence that what we have written is exactly what was said? You know, that's my first thing because [00:22:00] we are reading a Bible that is said that is, you know, said to be God's, you know, from God.But then we have interpretations of it. We have versions of it. We have different things. Things may have been lost in the, you know, Conversion from language to language, all the predecessors of the languages. So things could have been changed, things could have been lost, things could have been inputted that weren't really there at the beginning.John: I'll, I'll go ahead and just dive into that and say everything you're saying could have happened, did happen. So, so there is no short way to answer how we got the Bible. That's like, that's, that's three hour lecture type stuff. . Cause it's a, it's not one book, it's, it's, you know, spans thousands of years of history. It wasn't assembled till, you know, somewhere between 100 ad and 300 ad. So there, [00:23:00]there's a lot of question marks and I, I, you know, I'm not the biggest Bible expert. I, I know a lot you know, I read the original language and such. But.If it could happen, it did happen. There were things taken out. There are things that were chosen, there were things that were not. There are things that have gone through at least one to one to three languages before we're even talking about English translations, when we're just talking about getting the original stuff together. Because you've got Hebrew agree Latin all and Aramaic and all these things working together. So yeah, you're right to be skeptical of that. There are , there are there. It is a, it is a mind-boggling thing. So for it to ever be presented as this was just written by God is, in my opinion, very reductive and very unfair, I think that's a bad way to look at the.Pat: Yeah, it truly is. You know, so you know, so then you, you, okay, [00:24:00] so if I start with that as being my platform, you realize I have nowhere to go because I don't have a solid base. So I have interpretations of something. I don't have the science behind it, which I'm sad to say. You know, you feel that you need something solid to cast your own thoughts, your own beliefs on, and I don't have that solid base.De'Vannon: so what you're saying, like this isn't like really just like a one pointed question. This is kind of like the overarching theme of like your whole grievance is that you just don't trust what you have to pull from. It's too corrupted.Pat: Yeah, it, it's corrupted. It's corrupted over years. Not corrupt in being, you know, bad corruption. It's just interpretations have been corrupted or been changed to what's going on in our life right now, what's [00:25:00] going on in the world right now. So you've changed everything to be, you know, more in a subtle way.You changed it so that it could conform with our new identity. So something back in 1940 is not applicable in 2023. So you just changed the religious aspect of. To conform to modernization, if that makes sense. We're just changing along the way. We're just going along. So we're on a, like a conveyor belt and religion is along with us.As long as we keep going down the path, religion is going down with it. It's changing, it's evolving. It should have, it should be able to stand the test the time which it's not able to do. So you know, they have another, you know, problem in that [00:26:00] what we have had in the past is no longer applic applicable to the present.So my belief Dean is not gonna be the belief of somebody 50 years from now because it's going to evolve again. It's gonna change, you know, as you said, you know, we want to. Behave as if we are still learning from not just God, cuz I know John, you don't believe that there is a God, but you believe that there is.There is something like a being. There's something that's the same thing I was learning in colleges, that there is something may not be a God. I just tend to hold onto it because my religion is still weighing me down and saying that there is the God, but there's something, you know, just something out there and I, I got to hold onto [00:27:00] something or else I feel empty.De'Vannon: right. So thank you for explaining all that. Now, the last question I have for you, then, John, if you care to talk about the way you parted from the church, then that's fine. If not, you don't have to. But both of y'all have completely different like ways that it happened. You were very studied and then you left Patrice, you were under the Catholic education, and then you left.So my question is, once you left the church, how did you continue your education? John already had plenty of education before he left the church. So since you took the church, you know, outta the picture, how did you compensate for that?Pat: For me, I just engaged in other activities, I guess, engaged my kids, I engaged my, my other past science, my other hobbies, other things to fill the void because there was nothing I could put back, a pour back into myself to make me. [00:28:00] Really get back where I was. You know, when you're young, you are, just believe everything that people say until you have to pass that knowledge on to somebody else, to your kids, and then you realize you've, you've come up short.I came up short, did not know what to pass on, did not know what to do, so I walked away. I had nothing to fill the void with. I did not have a sense of purpose to go and find out for myself.De'Vannon: Okay.Pat: I didn't, didn't have that, didn't have the resolve to want to do it, didn't want to do it.De'Vannon: Okay, so I'm bringing this up to, to drive a point home. Many of us leave the church to get kicked out. Whatever happens, and then like the mistake I made when I got kicked out of Lakewood was I let that drive a wedge in between me and God for years, and I should not have done that. So when we were pull our kids out of the church, if we're not gonna let the church teach them, then we've gotta take up that [00:29:00] mantle for ourselves and.John: Well, I'll ch I'll challenge that really quickly. Why is that bad for you to have a wedge there? Because, you know, you, you, you seem to, I I'm, I'm hearing a lot of like, shame in this, in this narrative of like, when you, when you leave church, you should feel ashamed for it, or, or not, not church per se, but because the church hurt you, you should feel ashamed because you're less engaged with God.Well, who told you you should feel that shame for being less engaged with God. I can't find that anywhere in the scripture I've read. So, so I, I would just wanna challenge that, that that's actually okay for you to not feel like you have to be engaged with.De'Vannon: Well, the thing is, she, she, she still was yearning for it though. She just didn't know where to go and get it, and, and I don't.John: sure. But, and Patrice, I don't mean to speak into your story, but a lot of church leaders have been telling you that you should be yearning for something. [00:30:00] The what? What if, what if We don't need to be yearning for anything. I'm all for holding onto hope. I'm all for personal spirituality. I'm, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but what, what worries me is when people are traumatized by what I call cult leaders who have, who have created neuro paths in their brain to make them feel like, oh, because I don't have the same thing I had as this child, this like expectation that there's something greater than me looking out for me.If I'm not engaging with that mysterious, ambiguous thing that I'm somehow failing in some sort of way. I don't, I don't see that as failure at all person.De'Vannon: Well, I, I'm so sorry if it came out like I was trying to judge her. I'm not. It's more like, it's morelike John: I was hearing you judge yourself davanon. That's what I was.De'Vannon: Oh, well, that I did really, really, really, for a long time I blamed myself for what happened at church, and that's no joke. I really, really did. But you know, it wasn't meant to be like a [00:31:00] badgering at all. It's, it's more like a conscious thing. You know, most people believe we have a soul or a spirit or something like that.And so if the church was feeding you and you take that away, then what? You know, like you said, it was a void. You know, what do we like? What? What do we fill with? It has to be some sort of other religious education. Now you can Google a lot of things. There's videos everywhere. There's all kinds of ways that you can go and learn, and so,Pat: I, I, I agree with you in that you feel the void, but, and John, you're correct. . I shouldn't have to feel this way, but you still have to live in a world where, you know, you have brothers and sisters that are still in the religion that seem to want to question you. People love to question, why did you leave?Or why, why aren't you going to church? You know everything that that happens to you in, in your book, dev Divine, and you're seeing [00:32:00] people reap what they sow. Now, because I've left every bad thing that has happened to me, the first thing people go to, they're handle is, oh, it's because you left the church.Now that's not the same thing you say, when I have something great in my. . So something good in my life, you don't tell me, oh, it's because I left the church. So you feel that, you know, yearning to be a part of something because everybody else is a part of something and you are left alone. So you're like on the outside always looking in that you don't have that religion or that crux.I wanna put it as it is the crux or the crutch to hold onto that everybody else has. I feel like the one-legged person in the two-legged race because I don't have something to stand upon. I just don't have that solid base. And they do make you feel guilty that you are not [00:33:00] in a religion. Cuz if you look at everywhere you go, sorry John, but if you look at everywhere you go, the first thing you do, if you go to the hospital, what religion are you?So are you judging me because I'm a religion? No, they're judging you because they need to know what your practices are. Okay? So if I have none, they tend to look at you to ask you, well, what were you, they're still seeking out something from you. So you are not a whole person until you have a religion to stand behind.And I know you said, you know, there's like cults and stuff, which I, I do read upon, but everything basically stands upon religion. And if you don't have it, you are near ostracized from the rest of the world. in politics, you have, you know, in your book you've [00:34:00] seen like the re Republicans, they want to stand with the with, oh God, I forgot what you, you call them.What did you call in your book? The Christians, the, the, the, some, some type of Christian, you know, so if you're not Republican with like those, that type of Christian mentality, you're kind of democratic with a different mentality. So everywhere it comes into play, so when you don't have it, you feel like a castaway.De'Vannon: Mm-hmm.Pat: that is where I have that constant feeling, that void that you always feel is your lost connection with the rest of the world who've basically put themselves into different religions to garner respect, wealth or power or whatever. So I'm, I'm feeling the [00:35:00] void because I can't identify, that's my best word.I can't identify.De'Vannon: Okay.Pat: am to everybody else. And you know, like the minute somebody says they're agnostic, people basically will be, oh, in our religion, in Catholic religion, they're not going to want to accept you or even speak to you. And, and there's so much wealth of knowledge. You can come to us and change our, or instruct us or teach us or help us understand, you know, it, it, it's, it's a big, it's, it's, it's bigger than, it's, it is really big.It's really, really big.John: Really quickly Patrice, I'm, I'm glad you brought up the word identity because. When I was reading your book, I really kind of, that that was what I really thought it was about more than anything was about identity. Because frankly, when I read it, you know, it's, the title is Don't Call Me a Christian.And then I felt like I was [00:36:00] reading a summation of what Christianity is. And so I'm, I'm, I'm very interested as to, to your identity when it comes to was that like front of mind when you were writing the.De'Vannon: Thank you for that question. And after I answer this, if you wanna say anything about your parting from the church then go ahead and then, okay. So my point is to get people to break away from terminology, because what happens is we can get too caught up on what a word is supposed to mean and let the definition of the word. Carry far too much weight than what it actually does. So that mean, if Karen is a Christian, she'll go around saying she's a Christian.She won't make gay people wedding cakes, and she'll kick certain people out, but she'll be like, Hey, I'm a Christian. See, Christian is an action word is a word of love. It's not just like a word. So whether you were ever called a Christian or not, if you live like Christ, then you are one of his children.It's not about the [00:37:00] word, it is about identity, like you were saying, but we can identify what the whole trinity without being called a Christian.John: I don't know if that's true. Only because this is how, this is what? I would say in general because first off, I very much empathized, like my last days as a Christian, I would've eaten this book up for sure. Cuz this was literally my position was I believe these core things about Christianity. I'm sick of the church, I'm sick of all the garbage, right?And so I was like, I don't, like I had that feeling that a lot of good people who are Christians have, when someone, when the, when the conversation one way or another ends up in a place where you have to identify as a Christian and you don't want to that is a, that is a thing that happens. And so I kind of did it begrudgingly.I was like, maybe I can go back to saying I follow the way, maybe I can do, I, I, I think you like the term Christ [00:38:00] follower, right? So like I had a lot of those same thoughts and feelings. Here's the problem, I'll, I'll, I'll do it by way of example. If a, let's let you know, let's say a cop says the guy who murdered George Floyd isn't a real cop.Well then that just dodges accountability, right? Because now he is just saying, oh, he is not a real cop. I don't particularly enjoy men cis men specifically. I don't enjoy cis men culture in general. But I am a cis man by every functional definition, right? I could certainly identify somewhere else and, and there would be definitions and things that would go along with that.But in general, just because I might not like that culture or whatever, it doesn't necessarily change who I am. So sometimes when I'm reading what you're writing, I'm like, well, you're describing the Christian faith. Is is something you [00:39:00] believe. So, How can I not call you a Christian if, if you're describing essentially Christianity,De'Vannon: Mm, because I don't go to churches. You know, when you think of Christians, you automatically think of like a physical building. You know, I prefer to be called like a believer than a Christian, but I get what you're saying. If I've checked all the boxes, check, check, check, check, check. Then how can you do this and say you're not a Christian.I get that, but I don't wanna be called one because of how much pain that word calls as people. You know? There was one time I was talking to this lady I just met and I think this was the last time I told somebody that I'm a Christian. She paused, got like super uncomfortable. I wasn't sure if the, the conversation's gonna even be able to continue.And she was like, are you the good kind or like the mean kind? You know, and right and right. Then I realized people have, like, this is a triggering word if, if people haven't personally been [00:40:00] hurt by the church like us, then they probably know someone who has. And so I don't want that word to drive a wedge in between my witness to somebody else or the work that I'm doing because I'm insistent upon being called it.And that's really why I divorced the word.John: Sure. But like a lot of cops hate the word cop. They say, I'm a law enforcement officer, so, It's, that's great. They want to, they, they understand there's a problem or whatever, and they wanna distance themselves from it, but that doesn't really change anything systematic. Right? Like, it, it, it, it doesn't, it doesn't actually deal with the issue, at least my perception is it's not dealing with the issues of Christianity. Because, and this is a personal thing that we're obviously free to disagree on, but for me, I'm like, no, the actual mechanics, the actual theology, like ideas of the Trinity, ideas of you know, sin are like part of the cult structure. Like the, that's part of what does the damage, not just some Christians who were mean [00:41:00] sometimes. So, so that's just kind of the, the, the crux of what I was feeling when I read the book is I know you, I know you're a loving person. I know you're a good person personally, I think you'd be a good person whether you were a Christian or not. So for say, go ahead. I'm sorry.De'Vannon: I was just waving. Thank you.John: Yeah. And so since I, since I know that about you, like I, I see this as like an identity issue where you're like, I just don't want the identity of Christian because I don't identify with these Christians. And that's fine. It just, it that makes labeling, labeling in general, I'm also not a fan of, but at the end of the day, we have to have some labels for legal reasons, for , like conversational reasons and, and those kind of things. So I, I didn't know if that, if I was spotting that correctly or if there was something else you were trying to do with the book.De'Vannon: Mm-hmm. . I wanted to use that title to get people's defenses down so that they would be open to a conversation about the Trinity. Now, I left the church, but I didn't go [00:42:00] as far as you. To, to stop believing in God and everything like that. As we discussed when I had you in my show the last time, I've had too much miraculous stuff happen to me, which I believe.And so for me, you know, it's important that I just never, ever, ever have a barrier. Cuz I had a dream years ago and it's like, it's like God was teaching me like how to soul in, in this dream. And he was telling me that in order to win someone's soul, to get, to get a, a convert, if you will, is that you have to get on the same page with him.You have to have a common ground, not show up, you know, knock on their door and say, I'm right, you're wrong. Change. You have to get on the same level. And so that word was coming in between my ability to do it. I've seen so many people be just devastated by that word and so I thought maybe I can package this differently.What you're saying, the institutions hurt people, not necessarily the word. You know, my call to action is for people to leave the church. If you've been hurt, then to sit [00:43:00] there thinking you have to, you can still have a perfectly good relationship with God. I still choose Christ. And so, so since we're, since we've probably got like, maybe like 10 minutes left I'm not gonna go through each chapter title or we're, we're not gonna go through each chapter and discuss it.What I'm curious is what part stood out to Y.Pat: For me, you know, you went pretty deep into Christianity and. At some point I actually did not see Catholicism in it, which is just weird. I'm reading stuff that I never touched upon, never saw, did not engage while I was in the Catholic religion. So yours was deep and very profound in that Christianity to me sounds like it's supposed to be.The whole mantle was supposed to be, [00:44:00] you know, trying to, or maybe the umbrella was supposed to go up underneath, but Catholicism fell along the wayside. It, it didn't get covered up in Christianity cause we are not as engaged as a Christian is. I don't know if that makes sense. Learn from being from young, we were told a Catholic is a solely of Christ, the believers in Christ.But we do not delve into the depth that you delve, delve in the book. So it, it was like eye-opening for me. You know, all the different verses and chapters that you relate you relating to when you are engaging in the book that I didn't even know about. So, you know, it's like maybe I should change religions, you know, go to a different team.[00:45:00]Maybe if I had done, if I had that opportunity younger, who knows where I might have been now, you know, who knows? If I had taken a different path, would I have actually engaged more? Would I have been, you know, more interested in it? I was, I, I'm just at the path where I'm not. So, you know, the, the part of the book that I liked is when you say we needed, I needed for God to, I needed to invite God. I needed to embrace them. I needed to engage, I needed to emulate, and I needed to behave in a certain way. I never got that from my cathar teachings. I got nothing. I got emptiness. Just whatever was said passed down was whatever that person, you know, what their limitation on the religion was, is [00:46:00] what I was instructed.So if they have 4%, then now I might have one. Then I now have to pass on what little I have to a child and tell them, you've gotta believe whatever I just said, no, I couldn't even bring anything else to the table to say, well, this is the, the meaning of it, So that's what I kind of really liked about the book.Is that you really allowed me to, to delve into Christianity, which is not what the Catholic church allows. We call it something different. We used to call it we used to call people who call themselves Christians. We used to call them born again Christians. So it's like saying you won't really, it's like all money and new money.That's my best interpretation of what Catholics look at with Christians. We believe Christians who quote versus [00:47:00] as new money type of people who just came along to religion. And we think we are the whole star world of religion that we hold the vault of religion. So when you say you're Christian, we tend to want to look at you differently, if that makes sense.That's the identity you were talking about.De'Vannon: Right. It, it makes, it makes perfect sense identity and is everything. John, what? What, what was your favorite?John: I'm, I'm still so hung up on this idea of, of that I was already harping on. So I'm trying to get my brain into a different gear but You know, frankly, like, it was kind of hard for me to read because it just, it it's Christianity. I didn't see any, anything particularly new for me because, you know, the, the, I mean, and I'm not, and I'm glad the information's out there.What I, I will say this. I like how succinct you were [00:48:00] able to cover a lot of ground very quickly, which is hard to do with this stuff. The only problem is I feel like there's information that I don't agree with that I think is, is just Christian rhetoric and Christian versions of things. The biggest one in that department was just when you were talking about sin. I, that I, I don't, I don't think, I don't think we agree on how sin works at all. Or even its existence in, in, in the same way. But but yeah, I mean, again, I I thought you did a good summation of Christianity. The, the thing that I want to just circle back to very quickly is I actually have kind of a problem with sneaking Christianity into the conversation under other guys's repackaging it.This has been done for years. The way when the, the first and second great awakening in the us, the way the gospel was presented was very different than how the gospel was presented. Now, it was very different than how the gospel was presented [00:49:00] in the first 500 years of Christianity. Catholics have a very different version of presenting the gospel than Protestants do.Presenting the the shtick in different ways, even if the way sounds really nice, does not give me comfort. It makes me scared that you're, that there's, there's an ulterior motive. Now, I know you and I know your motives are pure . I know it's because you have a heart for people who are hurting, and especially people who have been hurt by the church.And so to me, I I, I see that in the writing as well. Like this is communicating to them. I just still see that fundamental problem of this still serves a system that is bigger than Davanon's love for people. This is still the same rhetoric that's in church. It's just packaged slightly differently. And so that, that's, that's kind of my final critique is, is I, I can read this as a man identifying.[00:50:00] His faith in very clear less Christianese type terms. But it is still the Christian faith through and through.De'Vannon: Well, I mean, that was pretty much the point. I wasn't trying to rewrite the Bible. I wasn't trying to rewrite Christianity. The point was to say it succinctly in a different way because you know, sometimes you know, two different people can tell the one individual the same thing. That one individual might understand the first person, but they might get it from the second person just because it was explained differently.Right. And so then that's, that's all it was. That's why it's a free book. You can just download it for free. , you know, you know.Pat: No, but can I say something? Just back to John. I completely see what you're saying, but for me, reading the book, this was, as they say, the introduction to Christianity For a Catholic being, I always keep saying I identify as being Roman Catholic. Cause I'm born there, grew up in it, we'll [00:51:00]die in it, but never had this level of interpretation into Christianity.I don't read much, I don't engage much because I was never really interested. So Duran's book was actually a glimmer into Christianity. , as he said, his interpretation, it could reach different people. So as you said, you could repackage it, but for me this is like nearly like the first packaging of Christianity.So for me there's an absolute divide between Christianity and Cath and being Catholic. We are so different. We are a completely different beast, as they would say. As you know, you would say Muslim is as Buddhists, Catholics, we believe we are the end all and the we are the be all in the end all. [00:52:00] So to now realize there is Christianity, it is nearly for somebody my age, it's nearly like mind blowing.Would I continue along the path of trying to find out more about Christianity? I don't know. but you know, I, I, I love what you said and I also like the book The violin is opening up so you it for you, it's repackaging, but for me it's like the first, it's like the first step is the first step into real religion is to hear how everything evolves and interpretation is all about it.So as I said at the beginning, it has evolved and changed and changed and changed. And we don't know who has the real, real holy grail of the Bible. We don't know what was originally there. We have gotten [00:53:00] versions and descendants of this same book, but we could choose which one we want to go to, and that's what we've done over time.De'Vannon: thank you very much for that, Patrice. At the end of the day, I'm not trying to like take the place of God. I don't think any church should. My website doesn't with the lessons and the education we have on there. one of my greatest prayers is for God to reveal himself to people on an individual basis in a way that that individual person is going to know that it is God speaking to them.Like with the angels that come and talk to me with the dreams that I have and things like that. You know, it is, it is impossible for me to deny the existence of God. So I ask God to give people irrefutable proof of his existence apart from the Bibleand. John: Okay. I, I got one last thing I have to say to stay on brand So so my, so my whole thing, right? Like, I, I'm, I'm a host of a podcast called The Cults of Christianity. My whole life's work is to dissect well, it's started as a [00:54:00] dissecting Christianity. It's moved on to dissecting cults. It is, I, Patrice, I totally understand.Catholics do not encourage education. That's not their, their, their shtick. There are many. Christianity is a huge umbrella with many, there's very progressive Christians. There's very fundamentalist conservative Christians. There are there's Catholics, there's Eastern Orthodox, there's, there's offshoots left and right.Here's, here's the only warning I'll give. It is so easy to go from one cult to another. This is something that happens with a lot of people is because they've been given a, a cult mindset. A cult follower mindset. They realize that what they were in is a cult. For you, it might have been Catholicism. For someone else, it could be something completely different, and then they.Find another cult. Now, this doesn't always mean like a religious institution sometimes. This can be, you [00:55:00] know, a, a very toxic group that goes to a bar. This can be a, you know get caught up just in a different world. This can, this can look you know, in my opinion, a lot of people who leave Christianity join Colts online that just talk crap about Christianity all the time.And that's like where they find their community and then people take advantage of them by selling them books about how bad Christianity is. I've put in a lot of work to not be that kind of ex Christian and gone to therapy and talked about these things to make sure that I'm never a cult leader again. So the only warning I'll give. That yearning you were talking about earlier. It's totally human. It's a normal emotion. It is so amplified when you grow up in a cult that you have needs, that you have these needs. That's that to be saved. That that's the, that's the indoctrination. You have this need to be saved.So whatever you believe is your personal choice and you need freedom in that. And I appreciate Davanon's approach that he wants people to have that very [00:56:00] individualistic thing. The only thing I'll say is just no one's got all the answers. Don't believe anyone who says they do, especially Christians, because they've been lying longer than about anybody about a lot of things. And, and so that, that's just my cautionary tale of it's okay for personal discovery. I'm all for people figuring out their identity. Don't join colts. They, they will only do damage to you and the ones you.De'Vannon: Here, here we can, we can agree on that. So before, before we get in the wrap up, I'm just gonna read a couple of chapter titles just so people can get a feel for it. Again, like I said, this is a free book. It doesn't cost you anything at all. It's just at my website, sex Drugs and jesus.com. You can download it and just take it and do with it what you will. Let's see, like what is Christ? What is Christ like Living is one spiritual Christians versus the church. Can we get along? Things like that. And so basically this book takes you from like the history of Christianity through politics, through interpretations and [00:57:00] transliterations to, to where we are today.It's super short, it's super succinct, and also had to keep it short so that I could keep people's attentions span. So the last, the last thing that I wanted to bring up was this quote by Mahama Gandhi that I included in the book. And he says, I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.That kind of with a huge inspiration behind this. What do y'all think he.Pat: John, you go ahead.John: Well, Gandhi Was not a perfect person. To be very clear. There's, there's some really problematic things about Gandhi. But what I will say is this is, Frederick Douglass also said a quote very similar where he said I, I forget the exact words, but paraphrased, it was something to the effect of you know, I, I don't believe in American Christianity.That was, that was his thing. So I, I think what he meant was pretty self explanatory in the sense that Christ, the legend as I [00:58:00] interpret him, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't view what the gospel say about Jesus as historical fact necessarily, but as far as the, the mythology of who we understand the character of Jesus to be in the world what he represents is this idea of loving everyone.What he represents is this idea of, no matter how broken you are, you can be made whole again. and that aligned with Gandhi in the sense that he cared about broken people and people who were ca outcast, right? That is very different than how Christianity has ever been from 380 to now. And so I think, I think Gandhi spotted it, and I don't think it's very hard to spot that. When you're, when your figurehead of your religion is someone who is willing to die bec even when wrongfully convicted. When you have a character who [00:59:00] would talk to people that no one else was willing to talk to, according to Legend that is different than anyone who's identified as Christian, which I assume is why Devon wants to get away from that identity.somewhat, because you also ca you probably like the Christ. You like that narrative. , but it's not what you see. And so I think, I think that's what Gandhi was saying, and I, I don't think you have to look far to agree with.De'Vannon: Well said, sir.Pat: Yeah. . Yeah. I have nothingI have nothing. That was really well said. You know, as you see, he's just saying, I think what Gandhi's just trying to see is I like your figurehead. I just don't like your followers.De'Vannon: It's, it's all, it's all very interesting to me because, you know, Christ was not called a Christian, you know, this word came about, you know, after he was gone. And it came about because people needed to wait to divide the new followers from the old [01:00:00] followers essentially. And so, you know, I just, I just don't want people to get hung up on the word.I want people to have a meaningful relationship with God that. , you know, outside of the Bible, outside of a building, that is my call to act because when the pastor inevitably makes a mistake, a religion could fall. Then what are you gonna do? Like, identity has to be a relationship with Jesus, just with Jesus, with no one else around.I'll say this and I'll shut up. Like your most, your most, your most powerful and, and meaningful time with God is supposed to be when you're by yourself, not when you're in the middle of a room full of people.Pat: Yes. De'Vannon: And so Pat: And I think that's, yeah, that's perfect.De'Vannon: and so with that. So with that, any last words y'all have for the world? Y'all can just say so and then I'll intro y'all out.Pat: Well, I just like what, what John said at the end about community in [01:01:00] that instead of moving from the Catholic church into something, it's like you're moving and just having different bed partners. So you just go from one to the next to the next. So that's why I actually have not sought out any other religion.I just kind of stopped seeking and started enjoying life. And wherever it takes me, it's where I go, you know, love, laughter, life, that's all it's supposed to be. I can't get hung up about, you know, religion, race, age, you know, medical conditions. I just, I'm just not there. I'm just not there. So if I need to sit in the middle of a room by myself and just thank God for something, I don't have to feel ashamed.I don't have to go into a church and, you know, say, say everything to the mountain tops. No. [01:02:00] It's now just about me and my thoughts. That's where my religions is stored. It's in my thoughts and what I do. So if I do something good, I feel good. If I've done something bad, I feel human. That's just where it is.So my community is just me.De'Vannon: You are where you are and that's okay.Pat: Yep. Yep.De'Vannon: What about you, Johnny?John: you can go to the to christianity.com and spend five. No, no. I, I wanna, I wanna tell people that that there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to hold on to what you have believed. There's nothing wrong with wanting to search for a new belief, and we all have beliefs. The only thing that will always be my caution is are your beliefs truly your own? And investigate the hell out of that because there are so [01:03:00] many things that you might think are your own, that are not, that were given to you and probably forced into you. And so just be very wary of that as you're seeking whatever you're seek.Pat: Yeah, that's true. As as he said, be just cognizant of what you are introducing into you, into you, and don't let it be a part of what was taught to you. So it shouldn't be learned behavior, it should just be something that you really believe in. Most of religion is learned behavior.De'Vannon: Well, not anymore becausePat: IDe'Vannon: we, not anymore. Cause we kids are gonna be mindful about our religion, our approach to spirituality, and everything else that we do. We're gonna know why we believe, what we believe. That is what it comes down to.Pat: Mm-hmm.De'Vannon: All right. Like, so, like, like John was saying, y'all, his, his podcast is the Cult of Christianity and the website is the cult of christianity.com.That's gonna [01:04:00] go in the show notes along with John's Link Tree. So and what can I say? Thank y'all for spending a whole hour of your life with me that I know that you can't get back. Too bad we didn't get to talk about Tyler Perry, but we might just have to do this again.Pat: yes. I would love that.De'Vannon: Thinking Bye everyone.Pat: Okay. Bye. Nice meeting you, John. Bye gra. Talk to you soon. Okay, bye.De'Vannon: Class dismissed.Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at Sex Drugs in jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at Davanon Sex Drugs and jesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is Davanon, and it's been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is [01:05:00] gonna be all right.  

In Luke 13:1-9, God calls us to dig deep! The devil wants us to skim the surface of God's teaching, infusing us with self-righteousness and greed. But God has so much more for us! He has fruit, just waiting to blossom on our branches – don't miss out!   *****   Welcome to Walking in the Word – the biblical teaching arm of the Women World Leaders' podcast. My name is Julie Jenkins, and it is my joy to walk through scripture with you each week as we ask God what He wants to teach us today. Women World Leaders is busy doing all the many things God has called us to! Our next edition of Voice of Truth magazine is scheduled to come out in March – just a few weeks away! If you are not on our mailing list for Voice of Truth, you can sign up on the contact form on our website, womenworldleaders.com, to receive a free digital version of the magazine. We also send a physical copy of the magazine as a thank you to each of our monthly donors! And while your donation puts Voice of Truth in YOUR hands, it actually does far more than that! Donations like yours are what allows Women World Leaders to keep going! We stepped out as a volunteer army about four years ago as God birthed this ministry, determined to do whatever He called us to; and now we offer podcasts, daily devotions, a place to pray and receive prayer, books that proclaim the gospel…the list goes on! And although SO many freely pour their time and gifting into this ministry – INCLUDING ALL the writers and contributors to Voice of Truth, it still takes money to keep the ministry running. So, if you are a regular donor – thank you!! We simply couldn't walk in OUR God-given purpose without your support! When you visit the website, you will also notice that we have an in-person event coming up! We are so excited to present the Come As You Are conference here in West Palm Beach. We'd love to meet each of you there! Let's turn to the Word, shall we? Our scripture today, as we continue our walk through the gospels, is Luke, chapter 13, verses 1-9…but before we begin, let's pray… Dear Most Holy God – we come before you today, humbled at your greatness. Father, you are so magnificent, so worthy, so righteous…and yet you call US to be your own. Thank you for meeting us again and again where we are – for teaching us, leading us, guiding us, and simply loving us! We give you these next few minutes as we delve into your Word – and we ask that, through your Holy Spirit, we may walk away from today's teaching changed – looking a little bit more like you! In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen. Last week we focused on the fact that Jesus has called us to stand strong for Him, even in the midst of those who may disagree with us. We learned that we are to go to God and allow Him to teach us directly, and then we are to take those teachings and, trusting His wisdom, walk boldly where He calls us. Today, as we continue studying Luke, we come to chapter 13, verses 1-9. In these verses, Jesus continues teaching the crowd – still exclaiming that we are to follow Him and His ways. Once again, as we've seen in the past, some people shout out controversial questions. And whether they were confused or trying to trap Jesus, we have to remind ourselves today that much of what Jesus taught went against the norm of society. Luke 13, as written in the New Living Translation, begins… About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple.  Bringing up this topic placed Jesus in a precarious position. Although it is not known what historical event the crowd was referring to, it is widely known that the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, was an instigator of trouble between the Romans and the Jewish people. There are several recorded instances of Pilate killing Jews in unorthodox ways – for various reasons that amounted to simple unwarranted brutality. Everybody knew it, but bringing up this topic put Jesus in the hot seat – if he refused to address the issue, He could be accused of being pro-Roman, but if He defended the Jews, He would be in trouble with the Romans. So the crowd asks Jesus, in essence, whose side are you on? The widely held belief was that any personal tragedy was an act of God that came about as a direct result of sin – so, wasn't it clear that those who were killed sinful? And wasn't Pilate doing God's work, punishing them for their sin? Jesus replies – and, like always, directs the people to think more deeply. You've heard it said that God's ways and thoughts are higher than ours? God clearly taught that in His own words in Isaiah 55:8-9 – “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord.     “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. 9 For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,     so my ways are higher than your ways     and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. I would encourage you to really rest in that scripture for a moment. God's thoughts are NOTHING like our thoughts – and God's ways are beyond anything we can imagine. And not only are God's thoughts HIGHER than ours, they are also SO much DEEPER than ours! And…we are called to become more and more LIKE God as we walk through this life. So…doesn't it follow that WE should ask God to HELP US think more deeply? Our default, as humans, is to think on the surface. Maybe this is because it is easier to accept what we are taught than to seek to understand the issues for ourselves. Or maybe, we are just too busy to think INTO an issue. Or perhaps we are so simply unaware of just how deep our thoughts can go. Probably the reasoning behind our shallow thinking – is a combination of all of these things! But we are not called to be shallow thinkers! And if we follow Jesus' example, we will begin to realize that every surface issue goes deeper than we usually care to address. Jesus knows this…so Jesus goes there! He recognizes that the issue at hand is deeper than the Romans vs the Jews. And He also recognizes that the lesson here is more about what we each WILL face than about what the poor souls who were killed by Pontius Pilate had already faced. So Jesus says, in Luke 13, verse 2… 2 “Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?” Jesus asked. “Is that why they suffered? 3 Not at all! He asks…were the people killed the ONLY sinners around? Obviously, they weren't – we all sin. So, by the people's own rationale, EVERYONE in Galilee should have been killed. Therefore, thinking deeply, the victims who were brutally killed were not being punished by God's hand. And yet – there is a lesson to be learned in their untimely death. Jesus continues… And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. There's the deep thought…we are ALL called to repent of our sins and turn to God. Without His grace, we are all doomed. Jesus goes on…  4 And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem?  Jesus' expands the lesson. The crowd asked Him about the death of those at someone else's hand. Jesus responds, what about death that comes about by way of an accident? Does THAT kind of death point to horrific sin? Jesus answers His own question…no…Reminding them that every single human being will die a physical death – no one can escape it. And He repeats the DEEPER lesson! Verse 5… I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too.” We are ALL sinners – and whether our sins are big or small, they all move us away from God. Each sin puts a barrier between us and God that we simply can't overcome. Instead of looking at others in judgment, which can be oh-so-easy to do, Jesus wants us to look at ourselves and our own relationship with God. He wants us to go deep with Him. What if, this week, each time a judgmental thought about someone else crosses your mind, you grab that shovel and dig deep into that thought – pushing the judgment away and asking God to show you your own sin of pride, greed, selfishness, anger, or frustration? Ask God to unearth what it is that is driving you to judge someone else. Ask Him, as you dig, to fertilize YOUR soil with truth, love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and even joy. Then Jesus turns to an illustration…the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree Verse 8… 6 Then Jesus told this story: “A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed. 7 Finally, he said to his gardener, ‘I've waited three years, and there hasn't been a single fig! Cut it down. It's just taking up space in the garden.' 8 “The gardener answered, ‘Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I'll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer. 9 If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.'” Many theologians will point to this story as a picture of Israel – the fig tree was not growing fruit, just as the nation of Israel was not turning to God. Yet we see God's patience, that has endured even until today, though not without a rocky history for sure. But, as we dig deep personally, we can also look at the fig tree as a picture of our lives. We each need to ask, does the figurative tree of my life grow fruit for Jesus? Jesus spoke earlier of our repentance, which is necessary to allow us to scale the barrier of sin between us and God. And then He spoke of our personal responsibility to continue growing in Him. But now, He admonishes that a fully grown tree is just the beginning – our purpose is to bear fruit. A fig tree took several years to grow mature enough to bear fruit. And the man in the story patiently awaited the fruit. But when the branches grew strong and there was still no fruit, he recognized that there was a problem. And he told the gardener that it was time for the tree to go. God has given each of us so much! He planted us in His rich soil, and He feeds and waters us with His Word and truth. He provides for us and showers us with love. With all of that, growing fruit should be natural for each of us. And the fruit grown on the branches of our lives is meant to help others grow and thrive. If we aren't naturally growing fruit, it can only be because we are somehow blocking God's nutrients within us, keeping His power in our lives from doing the work it was intended to do. Let's face it…A tree can't do much to create its own fruit. But by doing exactly what it was created for, God ensures the growth of fruit. You and I are called to submit to God's nourishment, and allow His growth to take place in our lives. We can and will grow fruit on His behalf if we are obedient to His call at each step. So how can you be obedient today? Simply by listening to and responding to that still, small voice. Is the Holy Spirit telling you to get out of bed and read your Bible? Do it! Is He encouraging you to serve on a ministry team? Go for it! Is He guiding you to listen instead of stating your case to someone you don't agree with? Then shut your mouth and REALLY open your ears! Is the Holy Spirit giving you a platform to share your God-story? Be brave and step out! I guarrantee you, someone else needs the fruit God is trying to grow in your life! Returning to the parable…We really don't know the end of the story of the tree. Scripture simply says… Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I'll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer. 9 If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.'” Maybe this is YOUR “one more chance.” Your reminder that your fruit matters. We serve a gracious God who will wait for us, but He won't wait forever! If you haven't repented, please do so today so you can spend eternity with God in heaven. But even if you have repented, I encourage you to dig deep into your soil and check on how your fruit is growing. Because THIS life is a unique opportunity for us to grow fruit for others who need it! Please don't miss out on this amazing opportunity! Let's pray… Dear Most Holy God – we WANT to grow – and we know that in order to grow, we need to care for our personal relationship with you. We have to dig – and ask you to fertilize and weed us with your Word and your love. God, we ask for strength and courage and wisdom to obey you, so that we, like the healthiest of fig trees, can grow ripe, luscious fruit that is suitable for feeding and nourishing others. What an amazing gift you've given us to serve you and serve each other. Let us NEVER take that for granted. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.

INTRODUCTION: I hold a Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Exposition, with an interdisciplinary in Literature, from Moody Bible Institute. I was one of two recipients of the MBI Homiletical Jury Award for outstanding preaching in 2016. I have experience as a youth pastor, pastoral intern, academic journal editor, and guest speaker. I used to be a part of the largest cult in the United States. In 2019, I published my first book, The Cult of Christianity, as a first step in addressing the subtle issues of this complex system. In 2021, I continued my work with this podcast!   INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      How Christianity Is A Cult·      A Look Into TCOC Book's Cover Art·      How The Church Exploits Vulnerabilities ·      Civil Rights Movement Implications·      Explained: Control – Contain – Convert·      Refusing Cake To The Gays! – But Why Though?·      The “Karen-ness” Of Christians ·      Fake Oppression·      Getting Over Self-Condemnation For Falling For The Church·      The Honor In Self-Deprecation  CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website, Social Media & Books: https://linktr.ee/thecultofchristianity  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sexdrugsandjesusYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SDJPodcast.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: John Verner [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: John m is back with us again to go harder into his very provocative book, the Cult of Christianity. Join us today as we discuss the ways in which the church mind fucks us, violates us, and exploits people's vulnerabilities. Also, I hope that through this episode you begin to find a sense of healing in knowing that if you or your loved one has been devastated by the.[00:01:00]You are not alone, honey. We are in this together. John and I are with you,and we will walk with you every step of the way.Hello everyone and welcome back to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. I'm your hostess with the mostest, Devon Huber. And I have with me the lovely, the handsome, the talented, the smart, intelligent, brave, bold, and in touch with his emotions. John er, he is the John: host, John De'Vannon: er mm-hmm. , John er. He is the host of The Cult of Christianity podcast.And the author of the book titled the same. He was on my show before to talk about, well, the book, but then we got so deep into his history in the podcast. We didn't get a chance to talk about the [00:02:00] book, so I had to have the motherfucker back on so we can dive into this shit. How the fuck is you? John: I is fine.20, 20, 23 feels like a little bit of a reset. And so I'm, I'm kind of living in that head space of like, all right, what's next? Since we last spoke, I went, I can't, I don't think I had started back working on my master's in journalism. And so that's been taking up a lot of time. I'm, I'm, it's all online, but I'm studying at N Y U mm-hmm.And that's been awesome. I've been, been doing some religious reporting stuff, which is, is fun. I'm excited to kinda move towards that, doing religious reporting. It's pretty fun. De'Vannon: Well, congratulations. Congratulations. And all of it was a good thing. . So you're religious reporting like say for, for like, for like the university's press John: or like where Yeah.For right [00:03:00] now. Yeah. And then yeah, I'm already, I'm hopefully gonna sell my first, I'm actually right after we record this, I'm gonna have a meeting to hopefully sell my first story of a church investigation I did. Cuz that's what I wanna do. I want to, not just Christian churches, but I want to go into churches and colts and investigate them and figure out what's really going on De'Vannon: as someone should.Have you heard of the Trinity Foundation in Texas? John: Yeah. You mentioned that last time we talked. I didn't, I didn't look too far into them, but I know there's, there's several. This is a relatively new thing that's popping up that's actually really, really important work. De'Vannon: So what you're telling me is there's organizations who investigate churches more than that one.This is becoming like a trend. Well, John: religious reporting has been around for, for decades, but it's been done in a very kind of general way. And I think there's being a small push to be like, let's actually look at individual, like if someone is whistle blowing on their [00:04:00] church or is like giving us leads about a specific church, that it should be fair game and we should investigate them like we would any other business.De'Vannon: Right. Well, I wish you success with that as you get going and keep going, be sure to let me know if there's anything that I can do for you because, you know, I don't give a fuck about churches, but I give all the fucks. I give all the fucks about Christ as I always say. Mm-hmm. , but the church. Yay Jesus. And that's the way that, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.Now, before we get too much into this, I want you to tell me about that coffee mug in your hand. Can you hold it up the camera so that we can see Yeah. What it says. Apostate coffee roasters. You mind giving us a little bit of history on what the fuck apostate means and where you got that from? Yeah.John: Apostates just a derogatory term that different cults and religions have thrown at people who, typically it's someone who, like me, who used to be a part of the faith and is no longer [00:05:00] but it's, it's more broadly a pro. A similar word would be something like heretic. But the, yeah, so prostate coffee roasters, they're this coffee company that is run by ex Mormons and Mormons are not allowed to drink coffee.So it's a very like, empowering thing for them to roast their own coffee and make it so they're awesome. Love 'em to death. They're great. Make good coffee. So their De'Vannon: whole show is one big clap back. Not the whole show. Their whole fucking concept is one big clap back. Mm-hmm. . So do you have any idea why Mormons think coffee is Satan?Why do they think coffee is of the devil? John: Yeah. I don't know personally too much. You know, I didn't grow up Mormon or anything. I do know that just in my studies of Colts , what they do is one move to do is to control what people eat and drink. You know, in Southern Baptist culture that looks like alcohol [00:06:00] you know, in, in certain pockets of Christianity, historically there was only certain kinds of bread you could use for communion.Anytime you're trying to regulate what people are eat, eating, you're regulating what they're putting into their body. That's just a, that's just a very like kind of you've mentioned stuff like hypnosis. It's, it's a very like, Kind of mind numbing way to control a person is to control what they eat and drink.The other big one I talk about a lot is controlling what you wear. That's like a, that's a big thing that pops up in different cults. You'll see usually a distinction between how clergy dress and the followers and how people dress on Sunday versus the rest of the days is common in Christian circles.So basically if you can control what someone expresses and you can control what someone intakes, it's very easy to control their mind cuz you're already controlling their body. . [00:07:00] Mm. So that would be my, my, my spin on it. I don't know the theo, I don't know what theological reason they made up for coffee.Like I, I'm sure there's some, I'm sure somebody said it was you know, too addicting at some point is probably the modern version, I would assume. De'Vannon: Well, if that was the case, at least those bastards were even across the board, you know, unlike say the Pentecostals who were like, that was show not drinketh of the vine, but they're gross in a fucking gallon of coffee in the back every Sunday and like that.But that's all good, right? . John: Yeah. Well that's also, yeah, especially, especially if they go the grape juice route too, because even grape juice is from a vine. So that's kind of. , De'Vannon: it's all silly. The marijuana, the L s D mm-hmm , the shrooms, the coffee beans, the grapes, and any of their derivatives is something that is of the Lord.And it is not for humans to tell us what the fuck. We can't do really with [00:08:00] anything, but it's certainly not anything that grew up out the fucking dirt. Hmm. So, speaking of artistic expressions, cuz you're also fucking artistic. I mentioned the, the cover for your podcast the last time, but I wanted to talk about that again because I feel like it's just so enigmatic and so polarized and you have this big, huge fucker standing on like a pedestal and his little minions bowing before them for him sucking his dick or whatever the case may be, paying HOK in some way.And the interesting thing is you can't tell whether or not that's supposed to be a preacher, a rabbi, a pope, a pastor that's supposed to be God, you know, or Jesus or some like sort of deity. , and I know you said it before, but I'd like you to just tell us again why you went with this cover art, because I think it's so true.John: Well, this is a, every so humans like categories we like [00:09:00] to find a group. We like to label things as good and bad. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. That's just kind of how our brains work. And the problem is we've got kind of this weird concept of good guys and bad guys, and the church is pretending to be the good guys while they're being the bad guys.But you end up having to label specific things that are wrong because there's so many goodhearted people in. . And so a lot of times when I critique Christianity, people wanna spend the conversation of, well, you're not critiquing Christianity. You're critiquing this version of Christianity, which isn't necessarily wrong, I am way more focused on White American evangelicalism than the rest of it.But White American evangelicalism was not a term when there were slavery in the us. There it existed, but we hadn't [00:10:00] labeled it that yet. The Crusades, the was not only white people, was not American people and was certainly not evangelicals, but the Crusades were bad . And it stemmed from their beliefs their Christian beliefs.So I can't say everything all at once. , but what I hope the art communicates is the, the problem that I've spotted, the category that I think everything else falls from is the idea of leaders and followers of other people submitting to someone else. I don't really, I, I think it's worth bringing up white supremacy.I think it's worth bringing up patriarchy. I think all those things are very much worth talking about, but I don't think it's the only thing going on. I think we have a we're, we're sometimes scared, and I think we've been made to be scared of pointing out that what's really going on in churches is that cult structure of one man with [00:11:00] other people having the knee bow to him either literally or metaphorically.So again, the art is, is purposely vague because I think unless there's some fundamental changes 40 years from now when evangelicalism won't exist, it will be gone. We won't be calling anyone an evangelical anymore. The same problems, the same structure, the same issues will still be present unless there's foundational changes.Chow, I'm De'Vannon: getting Game of Thrones flashbacks. Okay. Like, how many season is it gonna take to get you to bend the knee? John Snow, get on down there. Boy. and motherfucking service. Yo, queen God damnit. And so . John: Yeah. Well seasons is an interesting way of thinking about it. Both television and, and you know, weather or whatever.But it's true. Like there's seasons of Christianity that that kind of come and go. But what seems to remain is that structure of one person being in charge of others or [00:12:00] multiple people being in charge of multiple others. But there's always that hierarchy. So again, I, I have tried to update the art before, but I think it, I think it's just the, it, it's, it's about what I'm talking about most specifically.You know, that my art. on that is in line with the problem I'm trying to point to. There's many other people who are doing great work to dismantle white Evangelicalism and I support all those people. But to me, that's not my niche. That's not what I'm trying to talk about. Hmm. Then De'Vannon: tell us like it, you know, and make it official here.What, what are you trying to talk about? What is your mission in this world? Hmm. John: I'm not just against Christianity, I'm against cults. I just know how much of a cult Christianity is. Hmm. And the reason I'm against cults is it's an erase. It erases people's identity. It makes their vulnerabilities their whole personhood.It [00:13:00] it, it limits them to a very narrow way of. , and I think there's cult speak outside of, you know, there's a lot of cult speak in the business world. There's a lot of cult speaking, just American culture when it comes to politics. So I'm against all of it across the board, the one I'm just super familiar with, and can get very detailed and very like you know, just kind of a prime example.And unfortunately a very big example in the US is Christianity. And one of the ways, it's the biggest example is it's absurd that the largest cult is the most protected class of people in the country. Like, that's concerning to me. We have an organiza a loosely organized group of people that are protected by constitutional rights and legal rights more than anyone.and they're not oppressed, but they're that protected and that's a very dangerous, as we've seen, very dangerous combination. So they're worth talking about the most, and it's the one I can [00:14:00] talk about the most, but I'm against cults across the board. I'm not just bitter about my church hurt, I'm not just upset because of this, that, and the other.This is a real problem that really needs to be talked about in real ways and real solutions need to happen. De'Vannon: That's interesting you say like the, these ultimate people's vulnerabilities, their whole personality. I've never heard it stated like that before. So from from the people who've reached out to you in response to your book or your show or the work that you're doing, do you have any sort of, I don't know if we would call it a testimony, any kind of bullshit somebody shared with you that a, a church or a cult put them through that was particularly scary or moving to you that you can recall?John: Yes. To me. So I, I have two thi things that I think of with that question. One is, nothing surprises [00:15:00] me anymore. Nothing . It, it can still hurt. It can still shock me. It never surprises me. It only makes me feel like, yeah, that makes sense. And frankly, I only feel like I was five clicks away from being the victim or perpetrator of whatever bad thing happened, because that's what the system breeds.It, it breeds perpetrators and victims . I mean, that's just what it does. There's, there's many horrifying stories. Sometimes I avoid telling them because, When you tell like a really I guess salacious, for lack of a better word story, like someone who, like, you know, I have an episode of my podcast where I interview a guy who was kidnapped by Christians, right?About as extreme as it can get. What people do is go, well, those Christians were crazy. Those were the crazy ones. [00:16:00] Or like, if someone talks about, you know, this is unfortunately becoming, we're all becoming aware how common this is. When someone was sexually harassed or abused by someone in the church they, they go, well, that, that guy needs to leave.Like he's, you know, he's bad. And, and the church would, that church was bad, but you should come to my church. You should do this, you should do that. It, it just gets a little exhausting for me to kind of engage and. Let me tell you this horrible story because frankly, the horrible story doesn't change anyone's mind because the cult won't let it change your mind because your empathy has been pressure washed out of you.You, you don't, you don't ha the story doesn't tug at you because the thing that tugs at you more is you've been told how ashamed you are and how shameful your existence is. And the only hope for reming that shame is believing in Jesus Christ. And so that belief that's so firmly held is actually gonna [00:17:00] trump your ability to be empathetic towards someone's story.So yeah, I could sit here and I could, off the top of my head at least tell you three stories that would make a lot of people who are unfamiliar with churches that would make their jaw drop, but it wouldn't change anything. And it's very sad because we want to believe that people's horrifying stories change stuff.And I think it does and to, and I think it can. . But I think a lot of the times it actually ends up being counterproductive because the cults, the cult leaders are anticipating that they've already done a lot of work to build a firewall against that particular human thing of storytelling to promote change.You know, I no better example than like Martin Luther King Jr. Right. You know, told amazing stories, was a great orator. Not the per, not a perfect person, but someone who told a lot of great stories and who was, showed the impact. And we like to [00:18:00] pretend that that changed the church and up more positive direction.But did it, I mean, I, I mean, what, what tangible, measurable things can we point to that were changed within church culture? I'm not talking about American culture in general. There was great things that came outta the Civil Rights Movement. What did the church really change? Not a lot. It just changed their verbiage, which they always changed their verbiage.But, but systemically what really changed. So if you want horrible stories, I can give them, but that's why I'm hesitant to a lot of the time is cuz I'm not sure it's actually that helpful. De'Vannon: What you said is, look, you said what you said . Okay. Did I accept that when I think of Martin Luther King or any of the civil rights, I never, ever think about the church, you know, except for the fact that the church stood silently by why people were murdered in the streets and stuff like that, you know?You know. [00:19:00] How's it say that? Well, John: and, and I mean, I mean, even Evangelicals hated Martin Luther King Jr. They called him a thug. They. There, there's a letter from the guy who wrote the Left Behind books. There's a letter from him to Wheaton College because they had a memorial service after King was shot.And he said, how could you celebrate the life of this man? They didn't just passively like, not like m l K, they hated him. Jerry Falwell hated Martin Luther King Jr. Because he was for segregation. So like, and again, like I, I, you know, I know this is an intense topic to go to right off the bat, , but, but I just think, I think we, I think sometimes those of us who have left the church think if we just tell enough stories of how bad we've been hurt, Christians will change.They don't give a shit. They don't, and it's, and some of it's not even their fault. A lot of the followers have been brainwashed to not give a shit. And [00:20:00] so the, the best hope is we can, with our stories, what we can do is help people who have already left know that they're not alone. Which is huge and that's really important work and people who are looking for a way out might find the way out.But if you're talking about systemically changing what cult leaders are gonna do it, it ain't gonna do shit. De'Vannon: Right. I concur. So, you know, that's why like in my ministry, man, I am preaching not to church people, but the people who have already been hurt or people who, who know people and love people who have been hurt because people don't go to church for the betterment of humanity.People go to church for entirely selfish reasons, to keep themselves outta hell, to work out their own self, soul, salvation, whatever it is. They're going there to get their blessing, their miracle. They're come up, they're not going there cuz they give a fuck about you. And then so yeah, I concur. There is no talking to them hardheaded people.Like if they're setting up there every god damn Sunday or whatever, they're not gonna be able to hear us [00:21:00] because they're constantly being re indoctrinated and re hypnotized by the big man up on stage or we god damn week. or the woman or the who of the fuck ever twirling about. So yeah, they're a lost cause shot of a miracle.John: Yeah. I, or also just explaining systemically what happens, you know, if you, if you're able to generalize it more than just a specific person, like one person's story and you can show them the patterns. You know, I used to be a cult leader, you know, I studied to be a pastor. I got out, I was hardheaded then.But the reason I got out was not because I heard a story that was finally, you know, enough, it was cuz I kept seeing the same thing over and over again. And I was like, this is just how a cult operates. And I was in denial about it. So I think cult leaders, the way you do reach them is say, don't you know what you're doing?Like, you know? Right. And if you actually focus the conversation on that and not just the extreme cases of bad things that happen, but actually point [00:22:00] to like the pattern. Like, okay, so do you have control over your congregation? . Like, that's a great question to ask a pastor because they'll, they'll struggle.They cannot give a yes or no que answer to it. But just be like, do you have control over your congregation? And you'll it then watch how they react. Cuz you'll see some interesting things. . You De'Vannon: can also ask 'em to apologize for something and get that same reaction cuz those bastards won't say they're sorry.And so, so now that you're speaking about control, I wanted to talk about, so y'all, his book, the called of Christianity is broken down into three succulent sections. The first one is called control. The section one is the sexual, the sec, second one is called Contained. Clearly I need to gimme some dick.Where the fuck did that come from? And the third one is called Convert. And you'll always, whenever you hear John's talk, he'll always say, control, contain, convert, control, contain, convert. And so, and that's how his book is broken down. And if I may, I'm gonna [00:23:00] read a little sniff it. That kind of echoes what you were just saying.And Howard, I had already taken down in my notes. Now, this is John speaking y'all, and he's saying, I don't recant anything in this letter. I said, holding back tears. I was feeling tired, dressed down, confused and hurt, yet unwilling to go again. So what I knew to be true, the truth was I had spent three hours in a boardroom that reminded me of the one I had seen in The Apprentice.I want you to tell us what the hell was going on here and why were you crying. . John: So yeah, so this is the first chapter of the book, and this is kind of, I, I, you know, my, my rose bud, my whatever, my my or villain or hero origin story, depending on how you look at it. So I was 16 years old going to a pretty stuffy church Presbyterian church, p c a for whoever that means [00:24:00]something to suit and tie church.And I was, I was angsty, you know, at the same time I was also in a punk band. I had grown out my hair. I was still very Christian, like, very conservative Christian, in fact. But I, you know, was around people who, you know, I, I, I was ex, I was becoming an adult, right? Like in as much as a teenager does.And the church was just ridiculous. And so, like, I, I had this whole rigamarole of, of beef with the, the leadership of the church. So I sent a letter. to email. I emailed the pastor and said, here are my problems with this church. And I had broken it into four sections of just like, they don't respect the youth of this church.They have a bad view of music. That was important to me cuz they were like, they had this whole, like, contemporary music is evil. They were like one of those. And [00:25:00] then they there were a couple other things. Oh, they, the way they hated Catholics actually really bothered me. The way they talked about Catholics was very not okay in my opinion.And then basically I'd told them I would never invite a friend to church here. Like I would never, like, do y'all want to actually save people? Because I would never invite. Yeah. So I wrote this whole long letter, sent it to the pastor. He forwarded it to the elders. I told my dad afterwards about it and my dad and dad was like, can I read it?And I was like, sure. I signed it to him. He is like, all right, proud of you. This is good stuff. . And so I told my parents that I wanted to face the elders alone. So we would go to their session room, which was a long wooden table, had like chairs on all around it. And then on the wall it had pictures of Martin Luther.It had Swingley and it had John Calvin. And then it had like these bookshelves that [00:26:00] were just like full of like reformation propaganda. And so it's me and the three elders I knew the most. And then for, for three hours they talked to me about how my long hair was sinful, which was the first time like, I thought, only crazy churches believe that, right?And they were like, no, you're trying to look like the world with your hair. And I was like, what? And then they talked about my best friend who dressed in all black, like how, you know, they're dressing in all black. Same friend was in the band with me and was just like, said, they look like the world.Talk to me about how I was the one who was disrespecting them. They weren't disrespectful of you, of youth. I was disrespectful to them and that yeah, that basically I, and, and I didn't confront them correctly. I shouldn't have written a letter. When you have a problem with someone, you go and confront them, and then if they don't listen, you bring another, you [00:27:00] know, the whole Matthew 18 dumb ass shit.And so I just, I, I was a wreck and so I cried. Eventually my dad came in, and that's the cool part of the story. My dad comes in and he goes, what happened? And, well, no, my dad comes in and actually the first things outta his mouth was who was yelling at my son. And it was a, it was a good moment for me and my dad.Our, our relationship only got stronger after that moment. then they started talking about the hair and stuff. Then my dad goes, look behind you. And there's like, you know, his wingy with his long beard and stuff, and he is like, and my dad goes, the person who sh what? I can't even remember the terminology anymore.The person who led me to the Lord, that's how they talk. The person who led me to the Lord had long hair. Like, what are you talking about? You know? and so it kind of got tense and then yeah, at the end I say I don't recant, which was a paraphrase of what [00:28:00] Martin Luther said when he was brought before, Catholics and, and excommunicated.cuz I thought that would be an extra sting of, since they idolize this man so much. that was the first time I switched from being a blind follower. I stayed a Christian for many years after that, but I stopped blindly following what church leaders say that day. De'Vannon: I like that whole recant thing.Like I was saying earlier that you said what? You said , I'm might, I might hit a bitch with that one day I recant, not it. John: Lost the fuck out. Yeah. It, it's a little dramatic. Well, because they, well, one of the elders said like, do you, do you have like, I want to give you the last word. Is there anything you wanna say?Because I could tell by the look on their face, they felt like they did something good. They felt like they did a good job of putting me back on the right path. [00:29:00] And I was like, guys, y'all just proved everything I said. Like, I, why would I recant anything? and they were, they were mad frankly. They were mad.De'Vannon: They always are. They, they were that way with Lakewood, you know, you know, when they, when the ki when the, when the kids choir director and the adult choir director were firing me from all aspects of volunteering for not being straight. Despite the, despite, aside from the fact they would call me in the office and question who I'm dating and stuff like that, trying to get all into who I'm fucking and whatnot.Well, I mean, we can't even fuck even doing all that. Just, you know, or hold hands or shit, I guess, whatever their rules were, you know? Mm-hmm. , when they offered me their conversion therapy package in order to stay and to be demoted, quote unquote, to an usher from being on, you know, camera and television and stuff in the more public ministries, and I got up to walk the fuck out, they were so confused, you know, that I didn't accept their conversion [00:30:00] therapy package.And they, when they were talking to me, they felt like they, they, they, they felt like I had hurt them and offended them. You know? Like, how could you, how could you hang out with gay people when you're not here, ? John: Yeah. I mean, when you, when you think, when you, you, when you think you're divinely appointed by God people aren't supposed to argue with you.And if they do, they're spo. If someone argues with you, they're arguing with the Lord. I mean, there's some who would never say, no, no, no, no, no. Like it's, it's, I don't, I don't have that kind of authority, blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, but in practice, like, I mean, this is what we keep agreeing to by showing up to church is that you're divinely appointed by God to do whatever the hell you wanna do, frankly And so, I, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, but it's so sad, right? It's so sad that it happens to not only, you know, [00:31:00] adults or like people who've put a lot of work into the church. it happens to very vulnerable people. It happens like in my case, to a child. I mean, I was 16 years old and I had grown ass men ripping me a new one because I just challenged their bad behavior.I mean, this is what we were working with. Imagine if I was like a woman when I did that, or like, You know, or, or like, you know, not, not white, you know? yeah, like, I, I, I mean, it's just horrifying, right? It's, it's all about once you deviate from, the, the program, I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna experience some, some shaming at minimum.De'Vannon: Hmm. Some shaming in some shade. Yeah. Especially white men, they don't like to be told what to do and, and that they're wrong. They're accustomed to stepping on all the little brown people and stuff like that. But for the record, my brother, I think you got plenty of soul. You are always invited for the motherfucking cookout.any damn [00:32:00] day about to be crawfish season down here. Come stay with me. I got room in my house. I'll get you some soul food and fattening you up a little bit. , John: man, I miss soul food. You know, there's obviously a lot of great stuff here in Atlanta, but now I'm vegan, so like, so much of it is like off the table for me now.It's very sad. De'Vannon: So that means no crawfishes for you. Well, vegan is not. Yeah. There's no dairy in that, right? There's no dairy in, yeah, video1579991175: but John: it's a, it, it's an animal though. De'Vannon: You can't eat any animals either. John: Okay. I'm gonna have no animal, no dairy, some vegan De'Vannon: seafood shit for you. John: So some collards though. I can have some collards, which is good.You know, I De'Vannon: grow mustard greens. I got them in the backyard right now. Ooh. Okay. I cut you a pot. John: Let's goDe'Vannon: So the section called contain mm-hmm. march. Stuck out to me. In, in, in here. So I have long loathed Christian people for this fake oppression and things like that. Like what you mentioned earlier. We're gonna talk about [00:33:00] the myth of Chris and Daria. Mm-hmm. , after we talk about this whole people not wanting to make cake for the gaze.Bullshit. I like the way you said it. I'm gonna read a little ex sweeped as bugs bunnies, , sometimes racist ass would. Say he can't help how Disney dressed him. Sometimes he was in drag, sometimes he was talking to people in blackface. But there's a whole thing out there on YouTube about, you know, Disney and the different cartoons, racism.Go look it up cuz unfortunately Bugsy was in there too. So Romans 12 versus 20 through 21. This is from the book, says to the contrary, if your enemy is hangry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink For Baso doing, he will heap pointing cold on his head. So do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.John goes on to say, perceiving gay folks as enemies is [00:34:00] problematic in and of itself, but even if you do, I fail to see how refusing to give people some cake. Cake, cake, cake, cake scores you any brownie points for the God.John: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it, it is wild, right? Like that's, it's, it's, it's just, and it shows the contrary, like there's an evangelical message of we need to serve all people. And then there's another message that they're saying at the same time is like, but not if, I'm like, well, if there's a but not if, then the first thing doesn't make any sense.De'Vannon: And Jesus is saying, it is your most basic bitch Christian level. You gotta feed a bitch. You know, two people can be in a relationship and on the verge of divorce. I mean, if a pot of food is cooking, you, you can at least share that. I mean, yeah. Nevertheless, you've been commanded to do so. You're not supposed to leave people starving and without clothing.No matter how much you [00:35:00] disdain them, you're supposed to piss on them if they're on fire. It's stuff like that, no matter how much you don't want to mm-hmm. . So you conservative assholes out there when you don't wanna make me a cake because I walked in with eyeshadow on, just know. You're written of in the scriptures.You hateful ho. Yeah. Now then this myth of oppression, like you talked about earlier. Christians are a bunch of big fucking Karens running around something like. The God the world is against them. The moment they can't stop. I don't know, a trans athlete from participating in sports, then, oh my God, I'm being silenced.My rights are not being heard. I'm being so persecuted. Bitch, no one's coming after you. You just got told no for trying to come after somebody else. No one actually attacked you. . Mm-hmm. . I can't say anything more about this. So tell us who the hell, Chris. Chris and Aria . John: If, if memory serves me, I was telling you before we started recording, I, I wrote this [00:36:00]book a while ago, so I'm like, I don't actually remember all, everything, but the, that's the, the couple that supposedly got saved early on and, and really it was all about Chastity.Like they were like this couple that was, you know, like, oh, chastity is so great. and then because they're seeking to convert others. I think according to the story, it's Rome supposedly who throws a, i I think one gets fed to a lion, the other gets fed, burned at the stake, whatever. It's a pretty classic version of just early church persecution.There's a million different stories like this of just like different Christian heroes who were early Christians who, you know got converted and, and then they, you know like start, started bolstering the movement and Rome doesn't like it, so they killed them. 90% of those stories aren't true. They never happened.They were made up. It was just, it was just made [00:37:00] up. I mean, I really don't know what else to say about it. It's just, it's unverified. There were a few that happened and there was also some early Jewish persecution in that same time. That was absolutely happening. , but Jewish Christians, which was what they were at first did that kind of lumped their Jewish Christ Christendom beliefs with other sex of Judaism that were actually being persecuted.And so it just became this kind of whole glob of like of myth of saying that like, oh, if the people find out you're Christian, they'll wanna kill you for it. And that bread, like this whole martyrdom complex which is very similar obviously to a Messiah complex. And so yeah, it's just, it just, there's a lot of stories like that that, you know, you, you're free to fact check.Never happened. But they're told from the pulpit they're, you know, they're told the old, you'll hear a mirror million [00:38:00] different versions of basically like they were singing songs while they were being burned alive. They were reciting scripture while they were being burned alive. Didn't happen.It just wasn't very common. Occasionally there was some mob violence that was killing Christians, but it just wasn't a common thing. De'Vannon: I can't believe that the band was really playing as the Titanic ship went down either . But if that's what might not have, well, if that's what Rose wanna say, then we'll have to believe Rose or what the fuck ever.I want that diamond bitch, you know? . Okay, . So basically the Christian Church is a bunch of drama queens and stuff like that. And I, I, I don't know, you know what I want you to talk about, like, people who leave the [00:39:00] church and like blame themselves or haven't been duped by them because I went through that for like a really long time. , you know, it's like I was mad at myself, as they say, for buying this bullshit. True. I, looking back on it now, with a healthy mind, I was vulnerable.They took advantage of me, but I did not think that way for a many, many years. It's like, why was I so stupid? Why did I let them do that? You know, there's a grieving that happened in some, some self-loathing that came in there on me.John: Well, let me tell you a story. Yesterday I was driving to the grocery store and I saw someone on the side of the road that had a sign that said, Jesus saves. And I got outta my car and I went and talked to them. After about 30 minutes, I realized this was the most beautiful person I ever met. And guess what?The story I just told you is not. [00:40:00] So no . Not that I've just made that up. I didn't go to the grocery store yesterday. Oh. So the thing got me yo , I got, I got everybody. And that's why you shouldn't feel duped. We trust, that's what we do as humans. When someone's put, when something's put in a story form, we're compelled by what they're saying.That doesn't make anyone stupid. That makes us have empathy. That makes us like beautiful people. We don't need to blame ourselves. We need to blame people who take advantage of that. Now, I was able to just tell you I was lying and no harm is really done right. , we gotta now, but there might be a listener who goes, oh, I can't trust this guy.If he's able to lie that good, you know, fine. Don't. But the thing is, churches have built an entire system that took the storytelling, the beautiful storytelling of Judaism and just wrecked it for their own purposes. and added, took away, changed, edited [00:41:00] the story. You are not stupid for wanting to believe in a story that, that, that, that's just the thing you have to know.There's no, there's no stupidity. It's all on them . It's all on them to bear the responsibility of, of having power, of having and kind of a monopoly on redemption narratives. I mean, they've kind of created this universe literally where the, they, they have a redemptive narrative that is attributed to them.They should wield that power carefully, and they don't. So no. Anyone who gets caught up in believing it, don't blame yourself for that. That's, you're a human being. Don't blame yourself for very normal human things to do. And don't blame other people who are still believing it. understand where they're coming from.It does take work. It's not easy. I don't have a [00:42:00] magic bullet solution, but I just think being aware of why you fell for it is important. Cuz most people didn't fall for it for evil reasons. They usually fell for it for really, really good, important reasons. Mm-hmm. . De'Vannon: So a another quote that you say from your book, it's concerning these foolish people.You say, John says, y'all the claim that they are in a relationship with Christ, that their churches are their families and that they love sinners, but hate sin and that divine beauty is interwoven through all of it. John says, cool story bro. Doesn't mean you're on a cult. . John: Yeah. Well, and it's true. It's just like there's, there's a, there's an element of family that, that they pretend to provide.and that's fine. And sometimes it, it's not all pretend. Sometimes they do some really important things for each other. I don't see why that's intention with the idea that they're a [00:43:00] cult though. I, I, I think, I think you can do good things while being in a cult. I just think cults are bad things. De'Vannon: Just don't drink the Kool-Aid bitches.I'm just saying. Pour it upon the ground and run the fuck away. So then the final run, run, run, run for is run. So the final section called Convert. Hmm. I thought this was such a confident statement for you, for you to write, and I just, I'm just like reading it cause we wanna talk about hell and whether or not you believe it's real, because one of his chapters is I believe it's called a, a yeah, it's called a made up thing called Hell.Y'all. John is the most titillating, tantalizing, thought provoking. This makes you wanna dive into them like some good pussy or some good pussy. Chapter titles. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, I'm gonna read some of 'em. Slave Segregation, sorry. Faux wait. Merit faux [00:44:00] Meritocracy with a side of the Theocratic Tyranny.Selective History, the Myth of Oppression. Made of thing. Call held superficial and super fiscal. You know, the, the, the, just the Fuckings chapter Titles are art. You know what it's gonna be about. And, you know, shit's gonna be edgy and fresh and everything that, that, you know, that we need right now. And so, whew, chapter ta fucking chapter titles gave me life.So, so from, from, yeah. The John: chapter titles are better than the book. So , De'Vannon: that right there is exactly what I'm gonna read now. You exude so much fucking confidence because of the way you're able to slay yourself and kind of make fun of yourself, but then not really, you know, you have to have like the biggest pp or just not even care because you, you just, you're just so like authentically you and you're so like, relaxed about it.Y'all, this is what John says about himself growing up. He says, I doubt [00:45:00] I am the only one to have grown up dabbling in mature discussion topic. It is way too. Wait, what the fuck? Wait, wait. Lemme say that again. I doubt I'm the only one that have grown up dabbling, mature discussion topics way too young to remember being younger than 10 and debating with my cousins over suspicion about who goes to hell.Young is honestly, I'm sure of any philosophers, theologians, our professional commentators, communicators have been around or had been around for this adolescent think tank vomit, would escape from their mouths quicker than corrections even. So good for us for trying to figure out life's deepest questions.And I thought, how, how? Just confident, you know, just to, just to be able to look back on yourself and laugh without being negatively critical. You know, like, I can't believe I thought or did that way. Ha ha ha, ha ha. But here I [00:46:00] am today, so. Can you speak to us about that sort of self-confidence? Where did you get that from?How are you able to look back and say, my God, you know, I was a mess, but not attack yourself. You know, just appreciate where you were then while taking in where you are now. Make jokes about it and just go on swinging your big dick through life, . John: So how do you Well, I was gonna say, I was gonna say the large penis is most of itBut I, no, I think it's so here's the thing. Truth be told, most of my friends would not describe me as confident. Writing provides a, allows me to be the best version of myself. And so what comes across in my writing as confidence is probably what I want to be. It's not always what I am. [00:47:00] The other answer I'll give is therapy.I, I punish and it used to be worse. So I've come a long way, but I punish myself for some of who I was. But I had a therapist. Tell me once how many years is enough to punish you for what you did? On very different things, you know? I mean, I have a, I have a lot of shame about all sorts of things I wish I had done differently in life.But what's, but what's my sentence, right? Like, what, what, what, how long do I have to negatively talk about who I was before? It's enough, before enough time has passed, before I've given myself enough lashes, so to speak. Like, what's the number? Put a number to it. And when she said that to me, it kind of, just reshaped how I thought about things.I'm like, there really isn't anything [00:48:00] stopping me from being the person who I want to be. So that's a little deeper answer than that little anecdote about me talking to my cousins about hell . It was. But I think I, I appreciate you seeing that that that is something actively working on as we speak, and something I want to get better at is, and it's not so much self-confidence, although I, I, I, I, I know I'm witty and I, you know, I, there's just certain personality traits I know about myself.But I wanna love myself and I haven't figured it out yet, but I used to not even want to. And that's the, the biggest change that happened in my life is when I, not, not when I woke up one day and started loving myself, but when I woke up one day and said, loving myself should be a goal. because for a long time it wasn't even a goal, and I was indoctrinated to believe that it would actually steer me away from heaven or my loved ones, or [00:49:00] love in general.If I tried to love myself, I would become selfish. I would become sinful. I would become self-serving because the only way, proper way to love yourself would be to love God. I don't agree with that anymore. I, I think that I th first off, there's a trope going around that's been going around for a while, that you have to love yourself before you can love other people.Bullshit. I'm calling bullshit on it. You can love people so deeply while you hate yourself. You can, you can have all sorts of love. The, the, the, the truth behind that trope is it will not be sustained. You can't sustain love for other people if you're not actively practicing love with yourself.Because love is a practice. It's not just like a thing, you can't help. It takes work, it takes choices. It does take feelings, but it takes controlled [00:50:00] feelings. It takes managed feelings. And for most people it takes some therapy. And therapy can look different for different people. It doesn't have to be sitting on a couch.You know, I, I used to do activity therapy with my therapist going on walks. You know there's all sorts of things you can do for you, and no one's gonna know what you need more than you. But yeah, I, when I look back at my past self, I do feel a lot of shame. But the fact that my goal is to not makes all the difference in the.De'Vannon: Well, I hope you overcome all of that. And I just, there no, remember Jesus being on the cross where I think he had a murder on one hand and a thief on the other? And you know, the Lord says the only sin he won't forgive you for is if you blaspheme the Holy Ghost, which is not something really easy to do.I don't think most people even know what the fuck that means. And so that doesn't mean that as a human we don't have to work through, you know, shame and [00:51:00] guilt. But, you know, I just always like to remind people, you know, and you of that, you know, all things are forgiven no matter what, you know, you know, according to the word of, of Jesus and his work on the cross.So this means a murdering people, oh God, fuck y'all. I'm not saying go out and slice people down, just thinking, go run to the church and ask for forgiveness. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm saying like, if you're sitting in jail somewhere and you done done it and it's been 20 years and you killed whatever person, Okay, that's over.Now, you know, you have a path forward, but Jesus does require us to tell the truth about everything, you know, to make whatever amends we can to people realistically, you know, and safely, you know, if the person's around, he wants us to as, as, as he says, leave our gift at the altar and go get right with the person.And not to let the sun go down on our anger. But there is always redemption. There is always grace, is grace is sufficient for us. No matter what you have done, you just don't blast being the Holy Ghost. Everything else. It's fine. I regret having sold so many god damn narcotics to people who I [00:52:00]could tell were too, were so weak-willed that I could bend them, you know, to, to my, to my desire.You know, sometimes I think about that, but you know what? It's over. I don't sell drugs anymore. I hate the fact that I prayed on them in their vulnerabilities. You know, to make myself feel good. That's John: such a big one. Can, can I focus on two things real quick? Whatever the hell you want. Okay. Okay. Because pr preying on vulnerabilities is a big part of my shame too.Hmm. And it's really hard because I grew up in a cult that taught me how to pray on people's vulnerabilities. Subtly, not like explicitly, but just being in that environment and all of that. So that's a hard, hard thing. So good on ya. For, for, you're correct. I mean, it's something you can't change.It's not, you know, the damage is done. And you do have to accept that that was a u that [00:53:00]doesn't exist anymore or even more accurately. That's a u that you've done work to and make sure that you're not prey on vulnerable people anymore. And whatever small bit of you that was either naturally good at it or indoctrinated to be good at preying on other people, if you're able to change that about yourself, you are so much better off than so many people who are in the cult who cannot turn that off and have no mechanism to turn that off.The second thing is I don't think you need Jesus for that forgiveness and grace personally. I don't wanna take it away from anyone . That's not, that's not my personality. I'm like, if that, if that, but I just, I would, I would be amiss and offbrand if I didn't if I didn't say you do not need Jesus to have grace.You need yourself to give grace to yourself. Forgiveness is something you can offer yourself to. And [00:54:00] so I, I just, I, I have to get that in there of like, Jesus is a cool archetype, is a cool story, is a cool whatever for it, but you don't need it. And if it's too triggering for you, walk the fuck away.Get the fuck out of there. You don't need it. De'Vannon: I say both because even with Jesus offering all, even when Jesus offering all the forgiveness in the world, if a person cannot accept it or cannot conceptualize that as a reality, then it, it'll never, even though they have it, it won't be in their reality. So to them it won't exist.And so I, I hear you on the self-work part of it. I throw Jesus in there. John doesn't, why, why don't you, why don't you feel like, so do you think, do you, do you think Jesus is more of like a story if he was like a cool guy, do you not believe that he is the son of God? Oh, he is not John: Well, and I'll say why he is not First off, Jesus is only as much God as you and I are.In my [00:55:00] opinion is how I would spin that if I wanted to. Son of God was coined by Paul. Jesus never said he was a son of God. He does make that like illusion where in, in John where he says like I am the father or whatever. Son of God is specifically a Greek term that Paul was using because that was a more familiar Greek idea.Judaism did not have the idea of a son of God. The Jewish understanding of Messiah was not supposed to be a God. It was supposed to be an enlightened human being. So those are just things that developed later. So I just, that terminology doesn't resonate in my worldview. Again, I'm not here to necessarily dog on people's personal beliefs, at least of all yours.But, but I, I more just want to make that clear distinction that it's like what I like about Jesus. Is what's reported about him through a very biased lens, , and through like a very [00:56:00] like developed and evolved narrative, the redemption narrative that we've landed on with Jesus is incredibly powerful, and I think a beautiful story that is probably more beautiful than any other story in literature I can think of.And there might be some sort of value that you can attach to it. I just don't think you need to worship Jesus to get anything De'Vannon: interesting. Oh, I don't take any of this personal, I'm always one thing about Christianity in the, in the, in the, the pursuit of spirituality. In my humility, I guess it might not be too humble for me to call myself humble, but you know, like , that my fucking humility, my fucking god damn humility, I, I understand that not everything is known about the approach to God, the approach to the trinity.You know, I don't believe that I have all the answers and I have enough sense to know anything that I think could be wrong, except for in the case that I've had, like [00:57:00] something miraculous happen, like a dream, a vision, an angelic appearance, you know, a touch by the Holy Ghost, you know, or something like that, you know?Mm-hmm. , my personal experiences, you know, you know, are non-negotiable to me, but my understanding of word of, of what's written absolutely negoti because you know, as I've gotten more into it in trying to learn the original Bible languages and the way they were written in the cultural influence and stuff like that, I've had something like, wow moments.Like, what the fuck? Now, when I was over in the Middle East last year, you know, I was shocked to learn that, you know, where was I at? I was in the United Arab Emirates. You had an Egyptian tour guide and stuff like that, and he was all like taking us all these moss and stuff. He was like, , we don't believe that Messiah has come, you know?Mm-hmm. at all. They're, they're like, Jesus was cool, and they're all about worshiping God. They believe Allah and God are like the same to them, but they're like, N Jesus just one of the other enlightened ones, but they're very dedicated to their, to [00:58:00] God and everything like that. I feel like more dedicated than Christians are, and they're more real about it and shit like that.You know, if I, you know, I could, I could easily fit into, into, you know, the Arabic culture over there. So I'm not surprised to hear you say that you don't necessarily think Jesus is the son of God, because those people don't either. I, I choose to believe that they're massive prosperity comes from their devotion to who they believe in and the way that they treat each other.Mm-hmm. so, so So, so what you're saying is based on what you read and researched Son of God, and Jesus always called himself the son of man according to what I read. You know, but, but I've never, I've never what considered what you've said before, that someone else called him Son of God, you know, he never called himself a Christian.You know, anything like that. Or as you put it, John, you say, every man before Jesus came up with rules, Jesus got rid of him. And then every man after [00:59:00] him added more rules. Mm-hmm. . So people, yeah, people tend to like to add shit. I quote you on that from time to time on my show, I'll be like, John Vanier said this, and soJohn: Yeah. Well, and to be very clear, I, I, I admire and even dare say I'm am inspired by Jesus. But I just, I just, the only, the only thing when it comes to the practical side of things is just anytime my, like my alarm bells go off, when there's a direct tie between, you need Jesus. . That's just like a big red flag to me.Not because some people might need Jesus actually, like personally in their own personal life, it might enrich it, it might give them a spirituality. I like to think of it as a template. It gives them like a template for their spirituality. That's great. But the second it's pe all people need Jesus.Then I'm like, fuck no. I'm like, , get, get that, get that outta my face. Because that is, [01:00:00] in my opinion, going back to the artwork. That's what can create that like hierarchy is just creating that need for Jesus. De'Vannon: Yeah, and that's another thing. I have enough goddamn fucking humility to, to realize that not everybody's going to be a follower of.I know that, you know, as I, as I say, from time to time, I'll hang out with somebody who, who sucks Satan's dick, as long as they're not trying to personally hurt me, because not everybody's gonna be a Christian. Mm-hmm. or be a follower. I hate, I hate the word Christian. So do you feel the same way about like God and the Holy Spirit?Like in terms of non deifying them? John: Woo. Man, once you open up the Trinity, that's a whole freaking new, that's a universe. I'll know if you, if you read that after, after the prologue of, of my book. But I, I believe it's cut off into three sections. Jesus was awesome. God might be [01:01:00] great, and the Holy Spirit haunts me.And the, the God might be great is kind of a, a nod to Christopher Hitchens, who's one of my favorite authors who wrote God is Not Great. Because my, my answer to him is, well, he might be. , but probably not. You know, it's kind of like, yeah, the, I, I, I know what you're saying, but you know, I also understand that most people, for most of history, I think it's a very arrogant stance to to act like the idea of God is silly.I think that's a pretty arrogant stance to have. So it's not one I take when I say the Holy Spirit haunts me. There are spiritual experiences, like you said, for you, they're non-negotiable, right? Like you have these experiences that define your life. I've had those myself. Here's the thing, they are negotiable for me.And I would love to just say this was all in my head. I [01:02:00] can't, I can't know that , but I would love to be able to say that. So for me, I, it's a little different because Jesus, the character of Jesus is the one that's especially in evangelicalism, but in Christianity as a whole, is the one who's dare I say, name has been taken in vain.The most you know, as far as like using him as a character, using him in a very manipulative way. When you get to the Holy Spirit, like you can get really culty really quick when you start talking about like Pentecostals and like, you know, just some of the hooping and the hollering and God told me this, so it must be true that that stuff is yikes.But the concept of God is kind of, has no meaning because the word God means so many different things to so many, to the, to each individual we imagine him that that's like in the, in the proper sense, we imagine him. So maybe less dangerous than, [01:03:00] than. You know, saying you need God is probably less dangerous than saying you need Jesus, but I'd prefer you to say neither, you know and you need the Holy Spirit might be even more dangerous, but it's just probably rarer, you know?But yeah, I don't know if those are just initial thoughts. Again, because, because I'm not an atheist. I don't, I don't claim to be, but I think atheists get a lot of shit because people think they're crazy. And I'm like, well, they're certainly not crazy. I mean, they're the most rational of all of us.They, they're just, you know, I, I just, I just don't identify with it. But I, all of that to say I just love all people and I don't want people to feel like they have to go through a very narrow lens in order to receive love, forgiveness, whatever they want to receive in life. They don't need Jesus for that.They don't need God for that. They don't need the Holy Spirit for. De'Vannon: why.you say you feel like you're, like, what I would call a, like an indisputable encounter with God that I [01:04:00] had. I find it non-negotiable. You said you would like yours to be negotiable. Mm-hmm. , why do you say you would like to be, or you like still fighting against your, the church or your experience?So if God approached you personally, what you're, what I'm hearing you say is that, you know, it's really not negotiable, but you would like it to be. John: Why? I know it's not negotiable for you and I know it's not negotiable for most people. It is negotiable for me. How do you the, the, the thing? Yeah. Well, I don't, most of the time cuz I, I got other shit I gotta doThink about it. But no, I, I, you know, I, I had, I had a, I have a conversion story. I, I felt the presence of God or Jesus or whatever I, I assume as much as anyone. I mean, right? Like I went and studied to be a pastor, like clearly it meant something. I don't think I was just a full on narcissist who was like, oh, I'm gonna be the voice of God, like, da da da da da.Like, I don't, I really don't think, I think it was motivated. [01:05:00] Pretty hol wholesomely and like . I thought it was a, I prayed a lot. I prayed more than anybody I knew, you know? Like, I'm like, surely this was all real, right? I don't know. I was 11. What the fuck do you know, at 11? Like, I'm, I'm like, there, there's, and what do you know when you've been indoctrinated for over a decade?That when you feel certain things, it's definitely this. Oh, like, I'm like, you know, there's like, there's placebos, there's, there's all sorts of things we know about what we can do with our own brain. Then I'm like, I'm not gonna say it was definitely this, or definitely that. I don't know, and I probably never will know, but I'm not gonna live my life based on those experiences because that is that's cheating myself out of a very full life.De'Vannon: Okay, I see what you're saying. What you're saying is due to, you haven't been such a young Impressional age when you went through everything, you don't know if that's like some sort of P t s D, some sort John: of, or, [01:06:00] or even in adult life, you know, like there, I had spiritual moments, if you wanna call 'em that, like an adult life, you know, I was a worship leader.I, I remember very vividly sometimes I was leading worship and like, would be struck with something that felt otherworldly. The whole g the whole gauntlet, whatever a Christian can tell you about their experiences with Jesus, I'll see you one and I'll raise you one, you know, but but I just, I'm just like, but I'm not gonna pretend that because I felt like it was something and I was told to feel like it was something that, it definitely was that thing.I, I just, I wanna, I wanna have a little more humility than that and have a little more understanding of alternative worldviews. De'Vannon: I think churches should start paying all of us reparation checks, s for all this motherfucking mental health shit that we have. So yeah, the checks need to start. The money needs to start flowing the other fucking way away from these churches and

The word of God preserved in scripture is a treasure of unequal value in the life and ministry of every Christian.

God knows your heart – your true heart. He loves you and longs to rid you of your sin and fill you with His grace and mercy so you can shine for Him. Will you submit to Him today? (Luke 12:1-12) ***** Welcome to Walking in the Word, the biblical teaching arm of the Women World Leaders' podcast. My name is Julie Jenkins, and it is my honor to walk with you as we open scripture and ask God what He wants us to know today. If you are new to Women World Leaders, I'm glad you have joined us! Women World Leaders is God's ministry, and the mission He has given us is to help others walk in their God-given purpose as we all lead for Christ. Leadership can be tricky, and our leadership skills are to be honed throughout our lifetime. We are constantly amazed as God continues to bring women to this ministry who are blessed with different skills. Women World Leaders is truly a picture of the body of Christ – none of us can do everything, but together, we are perfectly equipped to empower each other to lead in God's grace and love and accomplish all that He has ordained. The fact that we are a body means that we are incomplete without you. Will you pray about where He is calling you to jump in? Perhaps it is your mission to join with us in prayer or to grow in leadership by attending our Leadership connect. If God is nudging you, I encourage you to visit womenworldleaders.com to get a better idea of who we are. Today, on our Wednesday podcast, we are continuing to walk through the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in an effort to get a more complete picture of Jesus Christ and His teachings for us. Today's teaching comes from Luke 12:1-12. If you are somewhere sitting quietly, I encourage you to open your Bible as we study together. Perhaps you want to have a pen handy to jot down thoughts that God might want you to pursue deeper later. But even if you are listening as you are driving, walking, or doing chores, I can't tell you how much God is smiling at the fact that you are including Him as you go through your day. Before we begin, let's pray. Dear Father God, we are in awe that you are with each person listening to this message! Thank you for meeting us each where we are. We know that you have a word for us today, and I ask that our hearts be receptive to hearing your voice. Father, even as I prepare for the honor of reading and expounding on your Word, I ask you to be with me. Guide my thoughts and let my words be pleasing to your ears and be exactly what you would have each listener know from your heart. We thank you and give you all the praise and glory as we begin. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.   As we have been studying, Jesus has been traveling and teaching to the crowds, and his disciples have been following and watching with awe and excitement. Now the disciples were small-town guys, and they were being thrust onto a very public platform. Perhaps you have found yourself in that situation – where suddenly everyone is looking at you. If you are or have ever been in a leadership role, you likely know what I am talking about. I got my masters in Biblical Exposition because I love the Bible. But I am also very much an introvert who is happy sitting at my desk with my dogs by my side. Something funny happens when we start getting noticed. Although we may feel uncomfortable in the limelight, or maybe BECAUSE we feel uncomfortable in the limelight, it is tempting to put forth a “face” that may take off the rough edges of who we are on the inside. Jesus understood this. He understood that the disciples, who had before only watched others in charge, were now being scrutinized because of their close connection with Jesus. And Jesus understood that this “fame” and “recognition” could threaten to plunge them into the sin of hypocrisy – that is, acting like more than they were. And that this hypocrisy could very well lead to pride and be their undoing. So as the crowd presses in, stumbling over each other, Jesus draws his disciples aside and speaks directly to them. Perhaps this is our first lesson in today's scripture – When crowds or concerns press in, we should react by spending one-on-one time with Jesus. Let's begin reading in Luke, chapter 12, verse 1 from the New Living Translation: Meanwhile, the crowds grew until thousands were milling about and stepping on each other. Jesus turned first to his disciples and warned them, “Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees—their hypocrisy. 2 The time is coming when everything that is covered up will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all. 3 Whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the housetops for all to hear! The Pharisees were the authorities in the Jewish faith, and yet it is clear that their power had gone to their heads…and more importantly, infected their hearts. They were more concerned with looking like powerful leaders than being true leaders. True leadership can only stem from obedience and submission to God. Always. As we grow in leadership and people begin looking to us, the devil attacks us with a crowbar, looking for any crevice where he can insert self-righteousness and self-doubt and then use it to pry us apart until all kinds of evil can rush in. Jesus is warning His disciples, preparing them for the day when they WILL take the lead. He teaches that hypocrisy – that is leading out of self-service and self-righteousness while acting the part of doing good for others – infects the leader in the same way that a tiny bit of yeast affects a whole batch of bread. Further, Jesus teaches that God sees everything – even that which we think is hidden. And what is hidden in our hearts is the core of who we are. I have often told my children, and I often remind myself, BE who you want to be. No one else holds the keys to what you have in your heart. If you harbor ugliness, and we are all confronted with feeling ugliness from time to time, confess it to God. Ask for His forgiveness and then ask Him to release you from its bondage. Ask Him to replace any sin in your heart with pure love, to erase any pride and replace it with humility. Petition Jesus to help you see others with HIS eyes, to infuse your heart with HIS compassion, to allow you to care about the things HE cares about, and to be who He has called you to be. It can be tempting to try to “hide” our sins and impure thoughts, but while we may be successful at hiding those from others, we can never hide them from God. What is it that tempts a leader, or any individual, to proclaim he or she is something they are not or believes something they don't? One thing is fear. As humans, we fear the reaction and treatment of others. So, Jesus further guides His listeners that the only fear we need to bow to is the fearful respect we should feel for God Himself. Verse 4… 4 “Dear friends, don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot do any more to you after that. 5 But I'll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell.[a] Yes, he's the one to fear. Only God has the power to decide our eternity. Therefore, God is the one we need to be right with and the one we need to fear when we are not. And though we should reverently acknowledge God's wisdom and power, we should also accept His grace and mercy. Because our God, who knows the inner workings of our lives, also loves us so much that His forgiveness, when we are transparent and repentant, covers us in ways we can't even begin to imagine. Verse 6… 6 “What is the price of five sparrows—two copper coins[b]? Yet God does not forget a single one of them. 7 And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows. God loves you! And He will shout it from the mountaintop! God undoubtedly knows you better than anyone else, AND He loves you MORE than anyone else does. Take a moment to bask in that. God knows you better than anyone and He loves you more than anyone else does. I hope that gives you a jolt of joy! And I hope it empowers you to allow the good that He has put in your heart to blossom and shine for all the world to see. Allowing our radiance to shine for Christ is NEVER bad! God WILL shout His love for you from the mountaintop – and He wants nothing less in return. He wants us to shout our love for Him right back, for all the world to hear. Verse 8… 8 “I tell you the truth, everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, the Son of Man[c] will also acknowledge in the presence of God's angels. That moment, I guarantee, will be better than ANY recognition or award. …verse 9..  9 But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God's angels. 10 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Please don't get hung up on that last verse… Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Let's take a moment to look at this. The first phrase says Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven. This is HUGE! When we repent, Jesus forgives us of even speaking against Him. That is grace! But it's easy to stumble a bit over the second part of verse 10… but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Let me explain…the Holy Spirit's mission is to reveal God to us. The Holy Spirit alone can bring us to salvation in Christ Jesus, sealing us for an eternity in God's presence. Our part of the equation is to listen and obediently respond to the Holy Spirit – that is what brings us salvation. The Holy Spirit guides us into repentance and empowers us to claim Jesus as our Lord and Savior. But we have to take that step into salvation ourselves. When we don't, when we refuse to listen to and be infused with the power of the Holy Spirit, God cannot and will not forgive us. Hear me out. If you have given your life to Jesus, you are absolved of any and all sin. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. But if you refuse the call of the Holy Spirit and do NOT give your life to Jesus, nothing else can save you. There IS no forgiveness outside of submission to the Holy Spirit. Followers of Christ do not need to let that verse cause personal fear, although it will likely give you a burden for those around you – and that's not a bad thing. And if you are listening and are NOT a follower of Christ, I believe that the Holy Spirit is trying to reach you right now. I pray that you will pause and take Him seriously. Hold out your hands to God, repent of your sins, and experience the freedom of salvation. If you would like someone to talk to regarding this decision, please reach out to us at prayer@womenworldleaders.com Finally, in verses 11 and 12, Jesus tells us that when we ask God to rule in our hearts and then allow His goodness to blossom, we can trust that He will lead us through every circumstance. 11 “And when you are brought to trial in the synagogues and before rulers and authorities, don't worry about how to defend yourself or what to say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what needs to be said.” Our God is so good, and He is ever-present. He will never leave us alone or allow us to fumble for words. When we give our lives to Him, we can be sure that He will walk with us through every trial, danger, and even success. Remember – He knows you better than you know yourself and He loves you more than anyone else will ever love you. He wants to release you from any ugliness in your heart and give you permission to shine boldly on His behalf. And then He wants to celebrate YOU with all the saints and angels. What an amazing God!! Let's pray… Dear Most Holy God! Thank you! Thank you for drawing us to you. Thank you for forgiving us of our sins and guiding us on a path of righteousness for your glory. Father, we give you today. We give you our will and ask you to guide us as we commit to lead and live for you. In Jesus' name, I pra

This week I speak with Amy Hafner, who is a Child of God, Champion of Women, Wife, Mom of three boys, and co-founder of the Soar Study Journal, a non-profit company creating tools to help study the word to help spread the word.  She is a 1st-year seminary student with - Masters in Biblical Exposition and has been Saved since March 2014. Amy grew up in a Jewish household practicing traditions that would one day make her heart come alive with the knowledge and joy of the love that Jesus has for us! We speak about her childhood and the transformation her life went through to bring her to this place where she has created a fantastic resource for people to understand the Bible better, their identity, and the profoundly personal relationship we can have with God. You won't want to miss this encouraging episode!✨ Once the episode releases, Amy is offering a discount of 15% off the Soar Journal to my listeners (for one entire month!! ) with the code: ACUPOFGRATITUDESoarjournal.org Soarstudyjournal.com*Theme Music “Blessed Day” by Ketsa

In order to understand, appreciate, and faithfully preach the word of God, pastors must discern the literary nature of the Bible. Instead of just acknowledging the various genres of Scripture, pastors and teachers should allow these genres to influence how the text is approached and communicated. In The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition, they will learn how to both read and preach the Bible as a literary anthology.  To accomplish this, Douglas Sean O'Donnell and Leland Ryken teach pastors how to faithfully preach while keeping the original authors' intentions in mind, helping them grow in their craft and love for God's word. They explain how to read 6 genres―including narratives, parables, epistles, poetry, proverbs, and visionary writings―for the purpose of captivating congregations with the richness of Scripture.Written for Pastors: Especially young pastors or those just out of seminary Practical: Contains guides, tables, and examples to help develop sermonsHeartfelt: Written with the desire for pastors to learn and grow as communicators Douglas Sean O'Donnell (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is the senior vice president of Bible editorial at Crossway. He is the author and editor of over a dozen books, including The Beginning and End of Wisdom; The Pastor's Book; The Song of Solomon and Matthew in the Preaching the Word commentary series; and Psalms in the Knowing the Bible series. He also contributed the Song of Solomon and Job to the ESV Expository Commentary.

A new MP3 sermon from Pleasant Valley Baptist Church is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Biblical exposition Speaker: Andy Riley Broadcaster: Pleasant Valley Baptist Church Event: Midweek Service Date: 9/28/2022 Bible: 2 Corinthians 1:20-24 Length: 48 min.

"We need to keep the conversation focused on the actual hierarchies that churches have created, the actual abuse that has happened and the exploited money in churches accounts. The tax exemptions, the legal developments, sociological developments, the history of Christianity." - John VernerReligious trauma, and spiritual abuse has the same negative effect on the social structures just as a narcissist has in their own private home. TRIGGER ALERT! This episode talks about the extremist of hate under the cloak of Christianity. Not ALL christians. And we do talk about current affairs and "politics" and religion." It's soooo juicy! And today we jam about the unpopular topic of Christianity being a cult. I share a conversation with John Verner. Instagram: @http://instagram/thecultofchristianity (thecultofchristianity) http://thecultofchristianity.com/ (thecultofchristianity.com) Guest Bio: John Verner holds a Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Exposition, with an interdisciplinary in Literature, from Moody Bible Institute. He was one of two recipients of the MBI Homiletical Jury Award for outstanding preaching in 2016. He has experience as a youth pastor, pastoral intern, academic journal editor, and guest speaker.  In 2019, he published my first book as a first step in addressing the subtle issues of this complex system. He hosts a podcast that continues that work under the same title, "The Cult of Christianity." Here are some key moments: Religious Abuse Biblical Gaslighting Difference between Narcissist and Sociopath. History or Christianity Christianity is a Cult How to bridge the gap of the collective divisiveness https://ravenscott.show/link-in-bio/ (Get your FREE 10 Powerful Ways to Defeat the Narcissist and Embrace your empath superpowers audio gift today!) https://the-thriving-intuitive.captivate.fm/https-bit-ly-3xjlfvb (Traum 2 Triumph Ticket) Empath & The Narcissist https://ravenscott.show/empath-and-the-narcissist (Book) : Better Help 10% off your first month https://betterhelp.com/empath (HERE) Grab your coaching sessions:https://ravenscott.show/shop ( SHOP ) Get free introductory session to Emotion Code with https://Madhvi.ca (Madhvi ) Grab all links and full transcript on our website http://Ravenscott.show/blog (Ravenscott.show) Music YouTube Library: Til I Let Go by Neffex

INTRODUCTION: I hold a Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Exposition, with an interdisciplinary in Literature, from Moody Bible Institute. I was one of two recipients of the MBI Homiletical Jury Award for outstanding preaching in 2016. I have experience as a youth pastor, pastoral intern, academic journal editor, and guest speaker.  I used to be a part of the largest cult in the United States. In 2019, I published my first book as a first step in addressing the subtle issues of this complex system. In 2021, I continued my work with this podcast!  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):  ·      The Cult That Is Christianity ·      Control – Containment - Conversion·      How Sermons Are Put Together·      Toxic Positivity ·      Churches' Role In Divorce·      Religious/Church Trauma·      How The Church Likes To Be Like The World·      Different Rules For Leaders Vs. Followers In Church·      Why We Have Trust Issues With The Church·      Where Did All These Rules Come From?·      An Interesting Explanation Of Narcissism ·      Religious Discrimination  CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website, Social Media & Books: https://linktr.ee/thecultofchristianity CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00] You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hey, y'all and welcome back to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. I love having you every week. I, so look forward to it and this week is no different and we're coming in hot and heavy with episode 67. As we talk about some religious and church trauma. Y'all John Verner is my guess. And this man is a smart motherfucker.He is well educated. He is well learned, well traveled and well studied. He's the author of the book [00:01:00] called the cult of Christianity. He hosts a podcast after the same title. And in the days episode, we're discussing his very hurtful history with churches as he opens up about his very, very, very personal experiences while he's giving us at the same time, a very inside look at how churches work, because he's been on staff at churches and things like that before.I hope you're delighted about everything. John has to say take a listen.Hello? Are you beautiful bitches? I would like to welcome you right back here to the sex drugs and motherfucking Jesus podcast. I have with me a delicious that nutritious man by the name of John M I'm gonna pronounce his name as VAE because John: VAE, I love that.That's so no one's ever done that. That's good. That's my name from now on. I love that De'Vannon: he is the host of the coat of Christie Andy podcast, and he is [00:02:00] a, the author of a delicious and nutritious book titled the same. And everyone knows my history, my chaotic and turbulent history with the church. And so when I discovered this son of a bitch, I decided, Hey, John: hi.Hi. Hi, how you doing today? I am doing great. Thank you so much for having me on I love the, the title of your pod. I was laughing cuz haven't had a ton of sex. I've only done a little bit of drugs, but boy, I've done a lot of Jesus. So I'm, I'm happy to be on. De'Vannon: Oh, the way Jesus is packaged by these churches makes him just as much of a narcotic as anything.John: absolutely. Absolutely. De'Vannon: So you've had all the drugs and so. In your own words, tell us your history and everything. Before I open my cock holster and do it for you. John: all right. Sounds great. Yeah. So I grew up very religious [00:03:00] very Christian. I had what you might call like a, a reformed upbringing, which is kind of a more conservative and formal version of evangelicalism.And my dad was in leadership in the church. Church was a part of life. We went to Sunday morning and evening service. We went, you know, a couple times during the week. And so all my social life was at church. I was homeschooled. So church was kind of the world to me. But I was always a pretty skeptical child.Things didn't quite add up to me. So it wasn't until age 11, where I officially converted after asking a lot of questions about how we could trust the Bible and what if we're all questions? And so I was really good. Other than that, though, I was a goody two shoes, you know, never did nothing [00:04:00]wrong.But then after I converted to Christianity officially, I yeah. Decided to take it very seriously to the point where at 17 years old, I felt the call to be a pastor. And so started looking at college options and. There weren't a ton for undergrad. And so I was like, well, I want to, I wanna get going now I'm on fire now.Praise Jesus. So wanted to, I wanted to go be a pastor and I didn't want to have to wait eight years to do it. And so I found a good at the time reputable college where I could study biblical exposition. So I went and got that degree. I have a bachelor of arts and biblical exposition with an interdisciplinary literature and got that, got married, got hitched.And by the time I graduated, [00:05:00] I was a little burned out. I thought it was just normal ministry burn. And so I figured I'll take a little time off from this church stuff. I'll still go to church regularly. I was still a youth pastor. That's what taking it taking time off. Looks like when you're a Christian is just doing less, but still being very active.And so. Then I went through a very, very messy divorce that kind of drove me into a downward spiral. Had a bit of a, a flirtatious dance with alcoholism. I like to say where you know, I, and nothing really mattered anymore. And I was trying to reconcile all the problems I had had with Christianity my whole life that I just kept kind of putting on the back burner.And I got burned by the church. My ex-spouse got burned by the church as well through the process of our divorce. And I was like, you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure if all of this [00:06:00] is true. Fast forwarding through a lot of funny stories. You get to me living in a van, traveling with my cat across the country where I started to write my book, the cult of Christianity, how church's control, contain, and convert.So I wrote that book was expecting a lot of backlash, got some . But not as much as I was expecting, I suppose. So that was nice and refreshing. And then in early 20, 21 I was thinking of different ways to promote the book. And I was like, oh, a lot of authors have podcasts to promote their books.So let me do it that way. And I was like, but you know, probably only six people will listen or whatever, it'll be nothing. And then the podcast did way better than the book did and so I got to start interviewing people. I was very interested in interviewing, including Christians that's. Some of my favorite stuff to do is get into interviews with [00:07:00] Christians.And so that's kind of what I do now. And currently I'm between seasons, but it's really been rewarding to be able to talk about from both my experience and my expertise. How Christianity, especially white American evangelicalism functions as a cult. That's me. De'Vannon: Hallelujah, tabernacle and praiseSo we're gonna dig deep into everything that you just said. I wanted to get into your podcast artwork though. Mm-hmm cause it there's this huge guy standing on a pedestal platform or a chair or something like that. And then three minions surrounding him and bowing. And I couldn't tell, is that supposed to be God or is that supposed to be the church or a preacher?What does that, what does this artwork mean John: to you? Wow, this is FA nobody's ever asked me this. This is a great question. So I've gone through different iterations of artwork have even consulted with other people to update the artwork, cuz it's pretty [00:08:00] old at this point and I haven't been able to get away from it.And one of the main reasons is I love the non-descript nature of it. There it's it's for, for your audience, it's basically clip art and it looks you can't tell if it's. The gender, the race you can't tell if it's God or if it's a preacher. And I like that because I think that's a lot of what goes on at church who, who is being worshiped.Who's the one bowing, the knee, who's the one on the pedestal. So every time I've tried to make the artwork more grabby or more interesting, I end up saying more with it than I mean to but the, the, the, the way I interpret it and other people can interpret it. Other ways is cults have hierarchies.There's always leaders and followers. There's always one person or several people on pedestals, and then other people just basically having to [00:09:00] submit to their authority and in any environment where that is demanded, I think it can qualify as a cult. My three alliterative words are control containment, conversion.And so I hope that the art communicates like that's, if you were able to zoom out and take away all the social constructs, that's kind of what Christianity actually is concur. De'Vannon: Yeah. I appreciate the, I appreciate the the ambiguity of the huge figure. And I I've said the same thing myself and I've, and I've been, I've done this in the past, you know, worship to pastors without really realizing it.I worship the building, the worship leaders you know, anybody up on a stage and yeah. And, you know, so, and I learned in, in my hypnotherapy training, you know, when a person is on a stage, we subconsciously bow them in a way, you know, before we even realize that just by virtue of them being on a stage.And [00:10:00] we're not really as critical of people as we should be, just because they're on a stage. So you said your Bible college was credible at the time. Did they fall into some scandal or anything since you grew? Oh John: A handful it's moody Bible Institute. You can just Google moody Bible Institute, controversy, moody Bible Institute, title nine moody Bible Institute you know abuse, whatever while, while I was there, I mean about just while I was a student there were about.I would say at least two or three, pretty like nationally recognizable scandals. The thing is, it's such a small school that people forget about it very quickly. The campus I went to doesn't even exist anymore. It's it's shut down. They only have one campus now in Chicago and I believe they're struggling pretty hard.But yeah, the, the [00:11:00] what's funny though, is the education I received at the secondary campus, I would say was, was shockingly solid. It was, it was pretty good. But the culture was brutal. It was bad toxic from the top down. De'Vannon: Lie, scandals and John: deceptions. Yeah, the fun. So De'Vannon: a gondola , but you were pretty good.I read where you, you were one of two recipients of the, the moody Bible Institute, home tical jury award for outstanding ING in the year 20 scene. So does that mean you can hoop and holler or John: what? Yeah, I, I won preaching. So yeah, it was silly. It's it's so every graduating senior at moody Bible Institute, I believe on both campuses faces a Holi jury homily, just meaning sermons a jury, meaning people who judge youAnd so [00:12:00] you stand before, it's usually a panel. I think it's four judges, usually a preacher from the local community, the preaching prof. An administrator and another professor and yeah, scored almost perfect on my sermon. So it was fun. But can you imagine anything more boring than a bunch of 22 year olds preaching 30 minutes sermons for three to five hours over two days and sitting through them and marking them on how good their gestures are, their use of visual aids.Did I get the big idea of their sermon? That kind of thing. But I'm apparently I was really good at it, so I don't know what that says about me, but you, De'Vannon: you preached for three or to five hours straight for three John: days. Oh, I just preached 30 minutes, but there was the students rotate through. Okay.For hours. Yeah. Okay. So what De'Vannon: I'm curious about. You, you, you, you, you just said like a few of the things that they critique you on. [00:13:00] I wanna know exactly how they analyze a sermon for quality, because this is my gripe I have with, with this new culture where these churches, the, they pre-write the sermon, they gotta get previewed by the board or whatever, you know, before it's put out to the church, I feel like they're doing that so they can be sure they have certain keywords and phrases and everything.So they can effectively, still mind fuck the congregation. to me, it feels like it's not as authentic. You know, it as how, when you read, like, you know, the Hebrew Bible and everything like that, when those people preach, they just got up and spoke. It was the same thing were the preachers who raised me.There was none of this. I need to write it down shit. And so, yeah. What, what rubric, what are they checking for? John: Wow. This is a huge, I mean, this is worth a whole episode. I, I, I particularly enjoy deconstructing how servants work, because I think a lot of people don't [00:14:00] even know the process and there are a million different styles.So the camp I was trained in would be called big idea, preach. There are literally books about different styles and structures of sermons. But the I guess philosophy or, or ministry style I, I was trained in is called big idea preaching. Big idea. Preaching just means there's one big idea you're trying to get across throughout the whole sermon.It's you repeat one phrase? The sermon I won on the big idea was God lets us be lonely so that we will know he is our only which boy, is that a problematic statement? But, but it won. And so, so, so many things, one in, in the camp I'm trained in, you memorize your sermon, meaning you manuscript it, you type every single word you're going to [00:15:00] say, and you memorize it.You have no notes. And I'm very thankful for that, cuz it makes you an effective speaker. But when. I'm most cynical about my degree. I joke that I have a degree in Ted talks because that's kind of what sermons, at least in the more trendy churches are now. Some of the more old school, if you're in a traditional Protestant church, you might hear three point sermons that was very common.They'll usually have an alliteration or something like that, you know, three CS or, you know, four DS or whatever. Mm-hmm, kind of a point by point sermon that's pretty common. Most sermons are gonna have a, basically like a, a three part structure, a hook, you know, where you get people interested in listening to you.It could be a personal story or an anecdote from history or something like that. Then it's got the meat of the content that can look like reading through the Bible and commentary style, you know, where you're just commenting on the verses as you're going through, or it can [00:16:00] be principles you've drawn out.You might, this is where you would do word studies or talk about the original context and then application, or what, why is this relevant? Is usually the third part in the style I was trained in. And that third part is where you relate it back to Jesus and the gospel story. So sermons are very ordered and structured now in different eras of history, they have been different things.And even in the us, I mean, during the great awakening, they were very you know, fire in brimstone. We joke about that, but, but they were oftentimes off the top of the head and very impassioned different cultures worldwide have viewed sermons very differently. Sermons, in my opinion, didn't even really exist back in ancient Judaism they, they were more storytellers and, and so there might have been parables, but what we would think of [00:17:00] now as a sermon, I, I don't think quite existed until probably the apostolic era.Probably I don't even personally think Jesus preached sermons which is not a popular belief, but I think he was just speaking and people were following him. And some of it got written down. So, so sermons mean different things to different people. But if we're talking about the word preach and Greek, I mean, it really just means proclaiming or talking.It, it's not a thing that a special person ordained by a committee reviewed by peers is supposed to speak about, it's not an academic thing or at least it wasn't originally. So it's definitely turned into something quite different than it used to be.What do De'Vannon: you think about Joel Ostein? John: I love him. De'Vannon: wait. I bring him up. I know. I, I get to sarcasm in your toes. Yeah. I, I [00:18:00] bring him up because that's the church that I was at before I got kicked out. And mm-hmm, I talk about, I talk about Lakewood church a lot because that's where my greatest church trauma happened at.Had it been at beque church of God in Christ or Sally's church, or the way that I would talking about beque or Sally and not Joe Ostein, but that's just where the shit went down. And it just happens to be the largest church in America. And but it's convenient for my task. Since he is, since he does own the largest church in America, other churches look up to him and they try to emulate the things that they do.And so, and that's why I like to dissect them all the time, because you have a lot of people, there's people who even like stream and broadcast their service into like their gym auditorium. And that is their service. Right. At least the case when I still went there. So their influences is global mm-hmm what, what do you, what, what, just tell me what you think [00:19:00] about them.John: So I have a, probably the strangest X evangelical non-Christian anymore relationship with Joel Ostein in that everyone wants to talk about him. And they did when I was at Bible college too, like in, in a negative light. And he deserves a lot of it. Don't get me wrong. I mean, he is, he is very like outwardly Almost unapologetically in it for the money.I mean, you don't have to be a super like analytical person to just look at his church and go something doesn't add up here. The problem with him is he is a great scapegoat for more local churches and people who think they're better than Joel Ostein. And they're not doing the exact same things that Joel Ostein does.He's a great scapegoat for them to say, yeah, you gotta watch out for wolves and sheeps closing, like Joel Ostein instead of facing how they operate Colts in very similar ways. So [00:20:00] that's kind of the angle I come at it from don't get me wrong. Everything negative anyone's ever said about Joel Ostein is probably true.But he does not scare me as much as the local churches do. Primarily because local churches don't have a national audience. They're not under the same kind of microscope. They can get away with a lot more. So those are just my initial thoughts, but I'm happy to dig into more De'Vannon: dissect the preaching style.So when I was there, people used to, you know, criticize him for being too happy. They would say people would jump up in the middle of a sermon and holler and stuff before security and their asses out of the building and stuff like that. I'd show up the church and there'd be protestors and everything like that.I thought all of that was a bit extreme. Mm-hmm but, but I don't know. I mean, on the one hand, I [00:21:00] was like, I'm happy to hear something happy instead of the fire in the Bri me Stoney. But since after I got kicked out of there, I went through so much bad stuff. The person I am now like a message, like his would be too, like Milky, like it wouldn't sustain.Like it, it doesn't really speak to deep shit. John: Yeah. Well, so the it's kind of like the concept of toxic positivity, right. He, and, and in Christian circles, they'll call it the prosperity gospel. So yeah, I think that's bad. I think it's bad not to be able to admit that life is tough and hard and like has bad things in it.And when you're unable to articulate that it's suspicious. I because the background I came from was never positive and toxically cynical. Again, Joel Ostein doesn't trigger me as much. I'm like, oh look, someone being a nice person. Who's a Christian. That's refreshing. [00:22:00] So, so that's kind of what I, I think, but I will say, so I read, I read your best life now.And I, you know, I was in a culture that thought Joel Ostein was the devil. And so I always kind of was more charitable towards him than a lot of other people. But as far as the preaching style, he's a great speaker and people who emulate him are gonna be great speakers. Why? Because it's the same formula Ted talks do.You can watch a Ted talk and think it's the most amazing thing you've ever heard. And then you sit back for another five minutes and you're like, I have no idea what they actually. Like, I, I don't, I don't know if they said anything of value at all, or if they just have such a good speaking style that it was engaging, regardless of whether the material was actually relevant to anythingSo I think the same thing goes on with Joel Ostein. I think it's nice to listen to 'em it feels good. And then you sit back and you go, you didn't really say anything like nothing, [00:23:00] nothing profound was said, I De'Vannon: concur. And y'all when he says your best life. Now he's talking about Joel's first book. And I read that one too.And I agree with you. I was like, and even as I was going to church there for all those years, it got to a point, well, the sermons started being repeated from time to right. And then I would kind of be like and especially now that I'm away from it, I'm like the fuck that you really just say , but you know, that's a part of the whole.Hypnosis aspect of it, you know, by the time you're done with all the laser lights and the worship and the smoke fog and everything like that, your critical mind is blasted. Like you don't have any yeah. You're just open to whatever the fuck is going to be said. And and what you said about it being a formula, it's true.Like I see the same shit replicated in all the OST stings, the way they preach. Mm-hmm, be it, the ones there at Lakewood or their extended family to have other churches in Texas and stuff like that. [00:24:00] And the way they all crank out these books and everything, you know, it finally collected me when, like, this is not it's like, so like rare and special.This is not necessarily God saying thou shall preach this. Or thou she write this book, right. Bitch has got an ABC 1 23 algorithm. And you're just repeating the same shit over again. Mm-hmm and then my problem is with that is that they don't share it to the whole world. Like they're only giving it to like their select few people.Yeah, John: well, any good business model, you don't give away all your content for free, right? And churches are no different. You know, they, they claim everything is free. But it's not, it's, it's a, it's an MLM. It's you know, the, and, and that comes in my opinion, from their theological perspective, that all you need to have a good life is to just believe Jesus was God.I mean, that's a crazy formula to assume, and it comes with a million asterisk because you can [00:25:00] believe Jesus is God, but then all of a sudden you have to serve in the church. You have to have these kind of sexual practices. You have to raise this kind of family. You there's a lot of strings attached the further in you goDe'Vannon: hallelujah, tabernacle and praise. So I wanna go back to this divorce, so sure. How do you identify sexually? John: I don't no, I I I, for, for the sake of my queer friends, I will say that I am SISs head to society. SISs head SISs head SISs head as I'm a cisgender man heterosexual. Sure. Yeah, we'll just go with that.Personally. My, my personal feelings about sexuality is everybody's on a spectrum. The labels are helpful sometimes, but for broad stroke purposes, but if [00:26:00] you actually wanted to get to know me, a simple conversation with a simple label will never do the trick. Oh. De'Vannon: So I might get to have my way with you yet.John: gotta keep the hope alive. De'Vannon: Hercules Hercules. And so, yeah, so, so. I wanna know just how nasty it got with this divorce. Cause I've talked to people like I was kicked out cause they found out I wasn't straight. And they were like, basically you're pedophile will give you conversion therapy if you want it.Other than that, you can't stay. Yeah. So when, and I, but I I've heard of churches treating people who get divorced the same way. Like I don't think getting divorced is I have a lot of opinions on that, but just tell me what happened. I wanna know just, just how nasty did they get? John: Yeah. So I I'll mention, you know, there's obviously parts that I'll omit just outta respect for my expo.But what I will say is it, it came about suddenly it wasn't directly related to any [00:27:00] spiritual issues. We were both, I mean we met at Bible college. So, you know, there, there were expectations that went along with that that I think. Both of us had expectations that changed as we got older, but had no tools to communicate them because we were so indoctrinated to do it a Christian way, but the Christian way did not fit what we wanted to be in our life.So and I wish I was as mature as I am now to, I, I would never have been able to articulate that while it was happening. And, and I was a pretty bad husband. I, I do take 99, if not a hundred percent of the responsibility for that marriage ending. But as far as how it related to the church, they wanted to be so involved and basically micromanage the process of us getting [00:28:00] back together, which initially was both of our goals.When we first separated, we did, we didn't do a clean break. You know, we were. She they had moved out and we were trying to you know, figure out if there was a path forward. And we were, you know, seeing a relationship coach we were actually communicating better than we ever had, but the church was concerned that our relationship coach wasn't, you know, a biblical counselor or whatever.And every time they would meet with us, which we met with them a lot both the head pastor and associate pastor it was like a very mob like, or mafia, like where, you know, well, what are you, are you doing it this way? You know, what, what kind of do, are you interested in our community? I, we would sometimes skip church, right?Because we were exhausted cuz it was an exhausting time and every time we skip church, they would say, even if it's too triggering for y'all to come to ours, you'd need to be going somewhere. [00:29:00]You should never skip church basically. And so it, it, it. It really hurt because by this point I had been burned by churches in big ways, at least two times prior.And so this was definitely a final straw moment for me because I knew what to expect and it happened. And it was just kind of like the, the two previous experiences had really led me to believe that churches can be really toxic, but they're not supposed to be. And the third one was kind of the, the, you know, what do they say in comedy?Two is a suggestion, three confirms the pattern. It was a confirming the pattern that, oh, this is what churches do. This isn't like exception to the rule anymore. They make people feel like crap if they don't do things their way. And it hurt really bad. So that was all kind of vague. I can get [00:30:00]into some more of the details, but, but in general, the idea was.If I did not follow a very specific pass path, I was not going to be welcome regardless of the fact that I had more religious education than most of the congregation, regardless of the fact that I had been a pastoral intern and youth pastor with them, regardless of the fact that I had written some of their policies to protect their children because they had none, regardless of all this effort I had put in, it didn't matter.I was still under their control. De'Vannon: What do you think gives churches the this, this notion that they can poke their nose and the people's personalized? Why do John: they're they're divinely appointed to do so in their head? I mean, that's, that's why they're there. God has put them there to watch over the F.I mean, this is, it is it's from top to bottom, their mentality. [00:31:00] There's there's leaders and followers at church. There always will be because that's, that's the structure that has, has come about. And Catholicism it's stark, right? Like it's, it's obvious, like you have the Pope, you have priests. It's a very, like, you know, they'll even be like you know what clergy is supposed to be abstinent depending on who you ask, but most would say are supposed to be abstinent.I mean, there's like these hu and dressed differently. I mean, these are huge markers, the same things present in evangelicalism and Protestantism. It's just more secretive. It's not as out to the public. They dress different, they talk different, they look different, they eat different. They have different schedules.Everything is different between leaders and follow. Because De'Vannon: when I was and all, all of those activities reinforces the hypnosis and the mind. Fuck. Yeah. Cause it was, I was at Lakewood. They would bring me into the office and ask me if I had a girlfriend. Yeah. You know, see what I'm John: like. It [00:32:00] matters like yeah.De'Vannon: You know, like and that's a huge problem I have with Joel because when he gets on camera, he's all like, everyone's welcome, you know, case sirrah. Yeah. But then he has these policies going on behind closed door that are very discriminatory. Some people have even alleged, possibly legal, you know, and stuff like that.And and so it's just really like a trip. And so you said that you wrote policies to protect children, protect them from. John: Well, just like with any church, you should have policies about you know, relationships with youth ministers and, and kids and, and policies about you know, if, if you're gonna do like any kind of field trips with kids, that kind of stuff, you should just have policies things for parents to sign, just to protect you legally.It's, it's honestly as much to protect the church as anything else from, from lawsuits. But in my opinion, you should also just wanna protect kids from [00:33:00] abuse. And they just didn't have, I mean, they were a pretty young church plant and they just didn't have any after I was pretty much shown the door at that church, I learned they, the policies, they said they weren't gonna use that.I had written, they ended up using them anyways and plagiarizing and saying someone else had written them, not my biggest the biggest crime anyone's ever done against me. So I'm like, I'm happy those policies are there. so it's fine. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's just, it was kind of the, the toxicity of that environment, De'Vannon: because I was wondering.Like when I signed up the volunteering in the kids department at Lakewood, they had like a clause on their saying specifically that they did not want any homosexual serving around their children. Wow. John: That's specific. Dang, because De'Vannon: they hold a they're, they're the type of people who are like, you're either straight or a pedophile and that's wild and that's just where they're at on that.There is no spectrum for them. And so and so when you said you wrote policies to protect children, I was wondering if it was that same sort of anti LGBTQ thing? No, [00:34:00]John: no, I I've I at my most evangelical and at my most bigoted, which I, I would say I was still bigoted. I still never believed in othering.Queer people. It just never, it never got in at that indoctrination. She never sat in there. it just didn't work. My best friend she's trans and we grew up in the same church together. Same churches actually, when I switched changed churches in high school her family did as well. And so when, when sh I, I, even before she came out, like, I, I wasn't super gung-ho about being bigoted.I always thought Westboro was evil, even at my most evangelical, like, you know, that kind of vitriol hate. I never understood, but I would still say, you know, the bigoted things of like, it's not the best way to please God or some bullshit like that. But but yeah, a after she came out and I started reading [00:35:00] more I kind of took the opinion.I was like, even if it is a sin, which I probably did still think it was. I just was like, it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. like, I, and it's also someone else's business and it probably didn't help at the time that I had my own hatred towards my own sexuality. You know, even just like masturbating felt like, you know, very shameful to me.So I probably thought it was all garbage. So like who cares which is not necessarily the health healthiest mindset. So no, by the time I was, I was writing church policy. I was not I was not like, yeah. And make sure they're not gay, that, that wasn't in my head at all.Hallelujah. De'Vannon: Tabernacle and praise. What, what for you, do you feel like is the deepest, the deepest [00:36:00] religious or church trauma that you received from your time? I agree with you. It really, really sucks when you've served at a church for a while and you have this history and stuff like that, and it all gets discarded right along with you, because in their opinion, you have fallen from grace.You've done any, you know, you've, you've, you know, none of it, none of it matters. You know, the years that I was at Lakewood and the, the 10, the 10, 12 hours you know, the 10 to 12 hours that I was there every week and stuff like that, you know, it's all great. And we can't replace you. We can't do it without you, until they find the blemish.Then suddenly, you know what, we have a new person coming in today and your services are like, you know, no longer need you're fired from everything. Goodbye. Unless of course you do our conversion therapy package. For me it felt like a [00:37:00] bad breakup. It can, yeah, terrible breakup and It was like the end of a relationship.And, and that is my deepest church or religious trauma that I have ever experienced anywhere. So I'm wondering what it is for you. John: Yeah, it's really hard to rank trauma because it all kind of compounds and turns into the same, cuz you know, even if it's not religious trauma, even if it's any kind of trauma, typically you're going to experience similar kinds of trauma throughout your life.Just based on your personality type, your ways of thinking, how you develop as a child, those kind of factors. So it's hard for me to just like pick a, like a silo, like, oh, this one is the, is the kick. I like to talk about my first one, which is it's a very first chapter in my book. I talk about [00:38:00] being I had written a letter to the pastor and elders at 16 years old at the church I was attending. And I I felt that they were not treating the, the youth, the young, young adults and teenagers very well at that church. They weren't being very respectful towards youth and they had different problematic teachings that I was identifying at 16 years old.And so when I'd written this letter, they said, well, let's talk about it. And so they called me into the church into this horrible, like boardroom meeting. And it really did, like, I don't know if you ever watched the apprentice I did. And like that kind of boardroom, it was just very daunting.And they, they, it was three, the three elders I knew the best. And my parents and I and [00:39:00] I actually asked to do it alone. I was like, this is my deal. I wrote the letter. My parents don't need to be here. And so my parents asked if they'd be comfortable with that. So so they asked, they asked my parents, if it was okay, if I faced them alone, they said, yes. And They just ripped into me for like two to three hours. They called my long hair sinful. That was the big, the big thing I took with me, which is why to this day I still have long hair.And they, you know, said the way we dressed was like the world. They said we hugged the female youth too long, me and my, my best friend and just all this crazy stuff. And it was the first time. And, and what was so crazy about it? They were using scripture so wrongly to justify all their shitty opinions, like clearly like no sane person knowing the context or what the [00:40:00] verses even said themselves would use it.There's that verse that says, let no one despise you for your youth. They use that to say, and that means you shouldn't be worthy of SPR of despise. like, it literally communicates the opposite of that. And so that was the first moment. So I think. I obviously experienced in my opinion, probably worse trauma later related to churches.But I think that was of the aha moment of, oh, even if I'm gonna remain a Christian, I really need to pay attention to what they're actually saying and why they're saying it. So that's the one that sticks with me and probably is responsible for some of my current trust issues. My current anxieties that kind of thing.De'Vannon: It's funny to me how, when it's convenient, these preachers wanna be like, Hey, don't be like the world. Don't, don't fuck with be Zub, you know, and don't [00:41:00] do all that. But when it comes time, you know, time for something that is going to to benefit them, Then they want to be like the world. And so I see this when it comes time to the way they structure the church business models.Yeah. When they pay out salaries and shit like that when they organize the churches behind the scenes and form them mezz like LLCs and shit like that, you know, they don't pay taxes and stuff like that. That's one of my biggest gripes against Lakewood because my friend Barry Bowen, who works with the Trinity foundation in Texas, which investigates churches and stuff like that did, did, did some digging and found out that Lakewood church only has like one actual member on file.You know, it's run by the whole, the whole family is on the board. It's just a bunch of, EENs making all the decisions, but, you know, Which is a very like worldwide thing, you know, there's no voting happening. There's no [00:42:00] congregation, no involvement in decisions and stuff like that. So on the one hand, it's like, Hey, you all are a member, but not really.you know, it's just like in word indeed. So we're gonna pay everyone at church corporate salaries, like the world, we're gonna go business model, like the world, we in a structure, our goddamn sermons, like the motherfucking world, but we don't want y'all to hug too much cuz that would be too worldly and don't drink and for God's sake, cause don't go to a gay bar cause we can't have you looking like the world?No, can we John: yeah. Well and, and again, no notice that pattern. Who can look like the world and who can't, the leaders can look like the world, the followers cannot. The leaders, the, the same rules do not apply to both leaders and followers in church. And what's funny is they would teach with, with their words.They would say, because leaders are held to a higher standard, but time and time. And again, we find they're held to a much lower standard than [00:43:00] followers are. De'Vannon: These are the hypocrites that Jesus warned us about. John: Yeah, Jesus doesn't seem like he was that big of a fan of religious leaders. So no, De'Vannon: he really wasn't though.And, and I wanna give a shout out to my homeboy, Steven, from the book of acts who also threw all the shade at the religious leaders too. He got his ass stoned for it, but you know what? A great honor that Jesus stood up from his position, seated at the right hand of God to receive him at his death. So I'm hashtag team Steven all the way.Fuck the preachers. Fuck the Pope. Fuck every goddamn damn body, but yay God. And so, so I'm gonna switch gears now to your, particularly to your podcast up until now. We just kind of like been talking yeah. About you. So your podcast are called Christianity. I wanna read just some of the titles. I think the titles are just like really titillating [00:44:00] mm-hmm Conversion therapy, Catholicism and Protestant Protestantism.There's so much history between Catholicism and protest Protestantism because my friend Jeffrey Crans runs a website called overview bible.com and he get, he has these really colorful pictures that breaks down like the Bible and shit like that, and is really super fantastic. And I cannot wait to have them on my show, but, you know, from him, I learned, you know, originally like the Catholics had like said like 73 books of the Bible and the Protestants had like 66 and it was like this whole thing and shit like that.And I really don't like the Catholic church. Let's see mental health too narcissism marketing divorce, faith versus works afterlife. And then religious freedom, which is one that I pulled a few questions from. Okay. So [00:45:00] So you talk about like what, what, what, what we've been lied to about. And I was happy to listen to your podcast and hear your own words, echo some of my greatest gripes bitches, moans legitimate complaints against the church.And I don't know if they all meant well, if they were just trying to give us their versions of the truth. So they didn't trust us to make up our own damn minds. But I think about how, like when I was raised and they told me don't drink any alcohol at all, because it's all terrible and bad, don't do any drugs at all because they're all terrible and bad.Don't masturbate. Don't look at porn, don't dance, secular music. Don't go to the bar. And as I've gotten older, now, I realize there's actually therapeutic uses for drugs. And the Lord said not to get drunk, but not to have it, you know, not to not have any of it at all. So if you lied about this, then now I don't trust anything else you have to say.Mm-hmm . And so what do you think about that? John: Yeah, well, alcohol is the drug I have the most experience with. So [00:46:00] you know, and so Christianity, especially the American variety has a really strange relationship with alcohol. There's certainly like subcultures kind of like Baptist are, are the ones that come to mind that take a very anti alcohol stance which is odd since if what's reported about Jesus is to be believed.He definitely drank and enabled people to drink. So it's weird to be a complete tea total, but I would also guess that among Christian cultures, alcohol's probably the most abused drug among them because they're, it's not seen as taboo in the us as some of the other drugs. So, so either way, in my opinion, with alcohol, it's kind of one of those things where if they're prohibiting it it's for the sake of their control, if they're abusing it, it's for the sake of control or containment or coping with [00:47:00]what they're dealing with, you know, so to me, it, it always will just go back to the controlling containment and conversion.So yeah, as far as like how they present that and lie and, and make it, you know, either add rules that aren't present in, in scripture or early Christianity. So my perspective probably goes like this, I think. I think Jesus was the first to reduce a lot of rules. And then ever since him, every Christian has added rules, I think Paul added rules, I think actually most of the apostles added rules personally.I think that a lot of the early church was trying to figure out what it was like to not have as many rules as the previous versions of Judaism. I think that Constantine made all these religious rules now have a relationship with [00:48:00] the, the state and with governments, you know, I think after the east west schism, there were, you.At the, the east Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church had arguments about how you interpreted the nice creed and, and created more rules out of one creed. I mean, it just, it, it snowballs to the point where you're in the United States and your average church is just going to say things that are, that don't have a source in the Bible that don't have a source in historical understandings of Judaism that don't have historical understandings of what's reported about Jesus.So the lies, whether they're intentional or not don't really matter. It's just, it's so distant. It's hard to even comprehend or trust much of any of it, in my opinion. Mm-hmm De'Vannon: and you were saying like on this particular episode about religious freedoms, how [00:49:00] you feel like the religious freedoms most often protect.Like already established religions. Yeah. As opposed to individual people's religious freedoms. And you give a really nice history of how there used to be all these Christian mandates at different states. And they used to have to recite belief in the Trinity or stuff like that. I think like in Massachusetts.So speak to us about how the religious freedom in this country is really more for organized religion and not John: the person. Well, it's, it's, it's not very much freedom or religion, right? Like it's, , it's it's it's politics more or less. I mean, freedom. The word freedom means very little in Christianity across the board.In my opinion, I the only freedom that I ever resonated with was this idea of freedom in Christ. And now looking back, I'm not sure how much I even resonated with that idea. There's this whole problem of free will of like, does God control everything or are we. Just kind of robots following a script [00:50:00] or are we just doing whatever we want and God judges us based on it.I mean, it's, it's very confusing when you start getting into the idea of freedom and Christianity specifically, but true religious freedom would look like I can practice my religion in any way that doesn't harm others or myself. That's, that's pretty simple. I don't know what that has to do with abortion.I don't know what that has to do with marriage. I don't, I, I don't understand what the disconnect is there. From a rational perspective, I really didn't understand it that much when I was a Christian, even when I thought that gay marriage was sinful, whatever, I thought that meant, I thought it should be legal, cuz it didn't make any sense.Right? It's like, well, marriage is a legal process in the country. It's it's the same word. Clearly means something different to Christians than it does to non-Christian. So why should we be regulating what other people do? Again, that, that [00:51:00] controlling that cult-like mentality of thing, everyone needs to do it our way or get out.That's present in this, this idea of religious freedom which really, again, it's just a, it's just, , it's just a lie. I mean, it, it really just means Christian exceptionalism. I mean, that's probably the, the best term for what it's actually describing De'Vannon: hall, tabernacle and praise. And you also were saying like how the religious rules, the people, and now this is all.White men making up all these rules and shit like that. One of my biggest gripes is that when all this shit was done, when king James, who, according to the book of queer documentary on the discovery channel king, James himself, the author of the king James Bible was a big old queer honey, if you haven't seen it, you need to watch it.You know, all these people, these are all just like white homies. [00:52:00] They didn't have women at the table. They didn't have indigenous people at the table. They didn't have other racists. And certainly not black people, not in this country. We were only three fourths of a person for fuck's sake, you know, for so long, they didn't give a shit about what any of us had to say.And so, so it is impossible that the Bible was interpreted, translated and put together and all of this with everybody in mind, this was written white perspective, you know, Sounds about white. Let me see here. Mm-hmm so, so you said that, you know, religious, the religious rules were designed though by some white man who had some God sense because not every white, white boy is a fucking fool.You actually have some John: good one. We mostly are though. just to be very clear. We're mostly fools. I was gonna say De'Vannon: it. And so if you were saying like the, the few good white men actually put these religious rules in place to protect the church from hurting people, you were saying really didn't originate from within the church.The church had their own way. They would've spun out all [00:53:00] Willy nilly. So talk about how the, the rules are really designed to, to, to stop the church from becoming a monster, even though it did anyway. John: Yes. You're talking about some of the founding fathers at the beginning of the, yeah, so, so the, so first of all, not only were they white guys, they were white young guys, the worst kind you know, at the, at the founding of our country and like.It's there's there was so much religious tension at the founding of our, you almost never hear this, but like it's, you don't have to look far. You can just read what these guys wrote. They like, some of them thought Christianity was the worst thing that has ever happened in history and wrote explicitly saying that, I mean, I'm paraphrasing slightly.I might be paraphrasing in a nicer way than what they were saying. And then there were some who thought it should be a theocracy straight. Puritans very much had this mentality that we just need to be [00:54:00] completely different from the church of England. That's what we need to be. Then you had you know, like you had clashing of cultures at the beginning that state to state the religious culture was different in the original 13 colonies.You know, the north was much more well, I'll start with the south. The south was much more like Calvinist and like formal. The, the middle colonies had much more of this kind of quakes, like approach to spirituality. And then the north was creating something new entirely. I mean, it was, we've always been divided.There's never been like a Christian nationalist foundation. There's never been a Christian nation in that sense. And there's also never been like a completely anti-religion vein through what was written. History's complicated. and sometimes we're just too dumb or too lazy to actually take a look and read about all the different things that are going on in an era and just read what the winners said.And that's really [00:55:00] irresponsible in my opinion. So yes, there were some rules that were trying to protect people. The first amendment was supposed, was never supposed to be. Churches can do whatever they want. It was always supposed to be we'll keep the church under the law. As long as the church understands, they are not above the law, they can do whatever they want.That was what the first amendment was supposed to be. Now it means churches are above the law. They can have those tax exemptions. They can abuse people and deal with it internally, unlike businesses or other organizations, they can exempt themselves from title IX stuff, which is what protects people from being sexually abused on college campuses.They can exempt themselves from that. This is the kind of craziness we're dealing with now. And you can only do that if you're master manipulators, who are the, the largest cult that's ever existed, goddamn. De'Vannon: Okay. [00:56:00] So John: In my opinion, I should always say that just after everything, say De'Vannon: child, it is what it is.You know, I pray for people to take their own look at stuff. And it's hard cause you know, people are raised as kids into this cult, you know? And so trying to unwind, fuck somebody, you know, as bad as it is. I thank God for all of the knowledge that's also available. Yeah. Because it's not like you have to go dig up a, a thick ass concordance.Like what I had when I was in, you know, learning and shit, right. That you can like Google shit. You can watch documentaries. You can listen to podcasts. There's so many books about the fuckery of the church. And so a person is only going to stay ignorant if they kinda wanna stay ignorant in this day time.So it's like the worst it gets. I feel like God is also still giving us a way out of it or a reprieve, you know, to some people. John: Yeah. Well, I, I agree. I would say the unfortunate thing about the information age. It is great. It is great that you can [00:57:00] access. I, I I'm partial to books. I think articles are fine, but really to get to know history, especially read a whole book.But I will say what's unfortunate about that is as equal to the truth as we have in the information age, just as much propaganda is out there and Christians are propaganda making machines. They've been doing it for a long time. They're better at it than anybody. So I, I want to hope, oh, with all this information, a kid who's struggling with church will be able to, you know, watch a TikTok video, go down an internet rabbit hole and find out all this good stuff.The problem is they can also go down a rabbit hole and become a school shooter. They can go down a rabbit hole and become a Christian nationalist just as easy. So that's quite frightening to me.So true. So true. De'Vannon: Well, well, people better get close to God and gain spiritual understanding, you know? Yeah. That way you can have some discernment about what it is that's [00:58:00] being presented to you and be able to detect whether or not it's good or bad. John: Discernment's very important spiritual or not, but yes, having a discerning mind and, and I'm not anti spiritual personally.So I think there's definitely a a route that, of spirituality that can be very positive and good for both your own soul and for other people.De'Vannon: Should I throw a touch of shade? Do it. I'm just going to say, say, and I'm talking about Paula white mm-hmm and again, Jolo thing just because why not? I just think it's really, really fucked up when as separated church and state is supposed to be, you see people like Paul White.Hanging out with Donald Trump, you know, of course he was surrounded by evangelicals anyway. And I just, I really, it just really bugs me. You know, I got kicked out of Lakewood for hanging out in S in the gay district, you know, when I wasn't at church. And then Joe [00:59:00] Osen was on stage with Kanye west, you know, who is the last time I checked.Isn't exactly like, you want your kids to grow up and be like that guy, you know, John: he went off the rails. Holy cow. Which time . Yeah, exactly. De'Vannon: do you mean when he was on stage with Joel or some? Just in general. John: Oh, he is just author. Yeah. I mean, just post-Trump era, just post Trump, era Kanye. I mean, he's always been a little bit narcissistic and crazy, but like, man, he really took it to 11 after, after that.And De'Vannon: so it just, it just baffles me, but I guess it doesn't. We don't really know these preachers. We just know the face that put on. When they're in front of the camera, we don't really know them motherfuckers, you know, for you to think that it is a high moral ground to break bread with Kanye west on stage.You know, [01:00:00] I don't get that, you know, and then to be like, Donald Trump is the greatest person. He's the savior of God he's sent, I don't get this. So John: yeah. Unfortunately I feel like I do get it. I feel like it fits perfectly only because from my understanding of the development of Christianity it narcissists are rewarded.I mean, that's just what it does. It rewards an narcissism. And so yes, I, I think it's very sad and upsetting when yeah. Jesus who might have been, I'm really gonna say something controversial. Jesus, who was probably queer himself. Would've definitely Spent more time with, in a, in a gay community than he would've with a, a president.I mean that, I think that's a it's it would be crazy to characterize Jesus any other way. That De'Vannon: do be facts though, because when he was here, he did hang [01:01:00] out with the unpopular people. You know, it was him who defended the, the town who, you know, with him hanging out the John: ma the majority of Christians, even after Jesus died for the first hundred years, war prostitutes, criminals and tax collectors, the outcast of society, those for the first hundred years.And, and probably a little bit after that, but definitely those first a hundred that's who wanted to be Christians, there was a version of Judaism that now accepted those people. Whereas before there was a version of Judaism that would never accept those kinds of people.De'Vannon: So you're saying you believe like Paula white, Joel Ostein, and a lot of these religious people are straight up narcissists. John: Well, you have to be to being right. I mean, to, to do, to have the kind of image they do. I mean, I find, I have to fight narcissism with a small podcast, right? Like, I can't imagine having that many people looking at you.You said something earlier where you said we, we see these preachers, but we [01:02:00] don't really know who they are. I don't think they know who they are because the the religion messes with your head when I was just preaching to a youth group or getting paid to, you know, go across state lines to give a sermon or whatever.I, I didn't have time for introspection. I was a narcissist as much as anyone. It's part of why I was such a bad husband. I, I, you get in your head about these things automatically. It's a, it's a toxic system from the top down and no one is exempt from the, the horrible mindsets it can instill in you. De'Vannon: Give me more of this.Give me an example of a narcissistic thought, a narcissistic thing that you did than you feel like is common among preachers. John: Well, yeah, it's hard for, it's harder to think. It's not like a thought it's like your, okay, so this is gonna, might be long winded. So I apologize if it [01:03:00] is. If you narcissism is primarily bred when it's not like an actual mental disorder, but when it comes about later in life, it's primarily bred from an apathetic mindset, meaning you don't care about anything when you don't care about anything.The only thing that grounds you to reality is yourself. That's it. That's all you've got because you have to live in your body. You have to wake up, you have to go to sleep, you have to eat, you have to do these things. So the only real reality is yourself. So. It rather than having thoughts people treat the word narcissism, like it just means like abusing people or something.Narcissism is unfortunately way deeper rooted than that. It's an inability to get outside yourself in the way it ends up coming out in a more so sociopathic way, meaning you don't care about right or wrong, you [01:04:00] end up just living your life, devoid of taking into account other people's feelings. So for me, one of the biggest regrets of my life is how, when I was married, I just did not give a shit about my spouse's feelings.I just didn't care. My feelings mattered more than theirs. It wasn't like a conscious decision where I was like, woke up and was like, well, what I want matters and what they want. Doesn't that wasn't my mentality. It was bred in, it was a state of mind where I would want to do something that they, and they would want to do something else.And I won because I cared more about what I wanted to do than what they wanted to do. It applies in church culture, too. Pastors, you see it all the time as a pastoral intern, I, I had another pastoral intern with me. We had a great, I idea for a homeless ministry that would've been so great. It was basically like make a little, I, I lived in Spokane Washington at the time, huge homeless community.I was like, [01:05:00] why don't we make little kits? Like just, you know, protein bars, socks, like, you know, just, just something to lift their day. We can get the whole church together to put the together these boxes and then distribute them. Then we're meeting people and we're serving people and it's great. And everyone's involved and it's cool.The pastor was resistant to it for bullshit reasons. What size socks is would we get, would we be competing with other homeless ministries in the area? What are we talking about? at this point? And so it ended up not coming to fruition because I think two things, one, I think he thought his thoughts were more valuable than ours.And two, I think he was scared because if I'm able to do ministry better than he is, that's a threat, you know? And, and, and I don't think he was like the most narcissistic person I've ever met in my life. I just think it's bred into the culture. A preacher is gonna be either De'Vannon: really, really, really strong or really, [01:06:00] really, really, really weak mm-hmm okay.And that's just the way it is that the problem is you can't just look at them and tell on which side of the fence they're falling. Right. You will rarely ever hear a preacher say, they're sorry. About anything. John: And when they, without a million caveats, at least at least a De'Vannon: million, and when they change their, I hear them say some shit like this.When they, when they find out they've been wrong about something, they'll say like a, I don't preach that the way I used to, or my, my thinking is evolving. So basically bitch, you're saying you were wrong. And then, so you're not gonna apologize to the people who you misinformed for the past years before your mind changed.Nope. John: Well, and even if they do, this is where the narcissism comes in. Even if there's apology, the apology, isn't about the people hurt. The apology is about them and their growth. And you know how, oh, I, you know, when I was a young preacher, when I was preaching at 24, I was wrong about this, this and this, but now listen to how great I am.Like you're saying, who cares about all those people? He hurt [01:07:00] it's about him or, or she now be progressive there's evil women pastors now too. Gotta be, gotta be progressive progress at that. De'Vannon: Yeah, you're right. They have a lot of eye statements and stuff like that, and they don't care. And, and it's in the book of Jeremiah, I think 21 where the Lord has a gripe against these preachers who, who scatter his sheep and is flock and they don't turn around and go and look for them.And you know, all of us who've been kicked out discarded and everything like that. Like when I got kicked out, no one called no one wrote, no one did anything. Right. You know, I don't know if I was just classified as a heretic and just, just gone. But I mean, the PA the priest, the priest was supposed to put a concerted effort into getting anybody who they lose instead of just charging along trucking along and just writing more books and selling out more arenas and filling, you know, getting more money, you know, you know, fuck a next book, bitch.You lost a member. You're supposed to stop everything to go and find them. [01:08:00]John: Yeah, that that mentality has honestly never been a as, as long as churches have existed. That's never been the attitude of church leadership. Even if it was supposedly commanded by Jesus it's it's, it's never been present in history.Oh, well, De'Vannon: shit. So then the last thing that we're going to talk about and we're gonna have to have you back on and really dig into your book. Mm-hmm ca

On today's Equipping You in Grace show, Dave and Doug O'Donnell discuss how the doctrine of Scripture should affect how Pastors preach the Word, how a literary approach to preaching helps pastors and Christians, along with his book with Leland Ryken, The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition (Crossway, 2022). What you'll hear in this episode How a good understanding of the doctrine of Scripture should affect preaching and teaching of the Word. How a literary approach to preaching helps pastors progress in their preaching. How a literary approach to preaching helps Christians grow in their skill and handling of God's Word. About Today's Guest Douglas Sean O'Donnell (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is the senior vice president of Bible editorial at Crossway. He is the author and editor of over a dozen books, including The Beginning and End of Wisdom; The Pastor's Book; The Song of Solomon and Matthew in the Preaching the Word commentary series; and Psalms in the Knowing the Bible series. He also contributed the Song of Solomon and Job to the ESV Expository Commentary. Subscribing, sharing, and your feedback You can subscribe to Equipping You in Grace via iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or your favorite podcast catcher. If you like what you've heard, please consider leaving a rating and share it with your friends (it takes only takes a second and will go a long way to helping other people find the show). You can also connect with me on Twitter at @davejjenkins, on Facebook, or via email to share your feedback. Thanks for listening to this episode of Equipping You in Grace!

A new MP3 sermon from Servants of Grace Ministries is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition with Dr. O'Donnell Subtitle: Equipping You in Grace Video Speaker: Dave Jenkins Broadcaster: Servants of Grace Ministries Event: Podcast Date: 8/29/2022 Length: 29 min.

This Anthology has been a World changer from the day of launch. 2X BEST SELLER (Paperback & Kindle), BEST SELLER in 36 categories, #1 in 8 categories and Multi-International BEST SELLER. Apostle Deborah and I's hope for this book is that it will Ignited that Fire in you to serve those around you and help change the world. Through these interviews I hope to help you get to know each author better and share their stories more in depth with the world. Today on WRITE NOW Dr. Pamela has the honor of hosting Women of Power – Latisha Shearer Prophetess Latisha Shearer is uniquely anointed to create, mentor, and equip leaders and spiritual warriors in the body of Christ. She is a dynamic and highly skilled leader who will thrive in challenging mindset shifts to promote inner healing and deliverance. Helping those trapped behind the enemy lines in their minds escape and be set free. Having endured trauma on a multifaceted level, Prophetess Shearer speaks at women's conferences with a passion for guiding and empowering attendees to confront and process their emotions and admit to themselves that inner healing needs to take place. She then challenges them to confront the flesh, guides them into the decision to forgive themselves and others, and engage in deeper intimacy with God the Father, Son, and Spirit. As the visionary of Fervently Creations Christian Talk Show and other platforms, Prophetess Shearer transparently addresses other traumas like anxiety, substance abuse, sexual trauma, depression, and more in her continuing efforts to focus on inner healing and deliverance. Prophetess Shearer believes in promoting others and uses her platforms as an avenue for marketplace ministry. As a best-selling author, multi-international best-seller author, and Mental Health Coach dedicated to seeing people grow through adversity, Prophetess Shearer has never stopped learning. She first obtained a B.S. in Religion Evangelism with a minor in Christian counseling. An M.A. in Biblical Exposition, and is currently pursuing a Doctor of Ministry with a concentration in Biblical Studies, all at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va. She has been ignited to serve by developing Bible studies for both children and adults, counseling, conference speaker, praise dance ministry leader for both young and adults, etc. As the visionary of a Y.A.M. (Young Adult Ministry), Prophetess Shearer gave young adults, ages 18 to 35, a safe place to grow and be educated with the teaching of the Word on different life challenges. With enthusiasm about the church's future leaders, she served youth as a Bible Study and Vacation Bible School teacher. Also, Prophetess Shearer has served as Armor-Bearer, facilitated prayer ministries, and launched women's ministries. She has also been a speaker through other media such as radio and social media. She is also a U.S. Army veteran who served from 2001 to 2016, with two deployments alongside her husband, to whom she has been married since 2004. Prophetess Shearer and her husband Shaun have two children. Contact Latisha: www.ferventlycreations.com Look for her Upcoming Book coming in September “Trapped Behind Enemy Lines… In my Mind”

Sermon on Acts 2:37-41 by Pastor Jeff McInnis from Springhill Community Church

At the Festival of the Tabernacles, Jesus teaches in the temple. His message is surprising, convicting, meaningful, infuriating to some, but most of all, life-giving. Will you listen with an open mind and an open heart, seeking God's wisdom for the path He has for you today? (John 7:14-31) ***** Welcome to Walking in the Word – the biblical teaching arm of the Women World Leaders' Podcast. My name is Julie Jenkins, and I am honored to walk with you as we open God's Word and ask Him to teach us what He wants us to know today. In today's passage, I believe that God is issuing a charge to each of us. There is SO much unfolding in our world and I believe this message to us is urgent and necessary. I also believe that He is bringing YOU this message at the exact moment that you need to hear it. So strap in – because we are diving right in! Our scripture today comes from John 7:14-31. Before we begin, let's pray. Dear Most Holy God. Thank you for guiding us today as we study your Word. God, we know that each time we open your Scripture, there is something specific that you want us each to know – and we don't want to miss it! So Father, we ask that you cleanse of our sins that we may be clean vessels, ready to hear directly from you. God, may the words that come out of my mouth not be my words, but may they come directly from you. As we gather today, we all have different things going on in our lives, but you know each of them, your care for us is astounding, and we trust you. So we give you this time and ask that you do with it as you will. We love you and we trust you. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.   As we join Jesus today in John chapter 7, He is in Judea at the Festival of the Tabernacles. You may recall that Jesus has been there in “secret” as it was not yet time, in God's perfect timing, for Jesus to make known His presence. That didn't keep people from talking about Jesus, however. He had quite the reputation. And, like the news we see on our phones and on television today, the news that people knew about Jesus was likely not the whole story – instead, MOST of the Jewish people relied on what they heard from others instead of seeking to experience and understand the truth. But now, as John records, the time came for more people to get that opportunity to experience Jesus for themselves and draw their own conclusions as to His identity. John 7:14 from the New Living Translation states..   14 Then, midway through the festival, Jesus went up to the Temple and began to teach. 15 The people[a] were surprised when they heard him. “How does he know so much when he hasn't been trained?” they asked. I love that phrase, “the people were surprised when they heard him.” – Again, the verses before this clearly tell us that Jesus was the buzz around town. Everyone had an opinion. And yet…when they listened for themselves to Jesus, they were surprised. They wondered how He knew so much – this man who had not followed a Rabbi or been taught by one. For many, this was their first contact with the man about whom the rumors had flown. When we hear rumors, do we go to the source? Do we check out things for ourselves – seeking the truth – before we make a judgment? The people were surprised by Jesus, but Jesus was not surprised by the people. Verse 16…     16 So Jesus told them, “My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me. 17 Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.  Wow…there is so much in these few sentences! In a time of memorization and regurgitation, teaching, and especially scriptural teaching, was handed down word for word from the teacher to the student. Until the student became the teacher. But as time went by, God's Word, passed on from flawed human to flawed human, became warped. But THIS teaching, Jesus' teaching, was different. And Jesus tells the crowd, that's because HIS teaching, came directly from God Himself. Today, we often hear people say, “I heard from God…” That hearing comes from the Holy Spirit who speaks directly to all of God's children. But this was not the case before Jesus went to the cross. People could not, at that time, hear directly from God, as sin had created a barrier between God and His people. In fact, the Old Testament is chock full of rituals that had to be followed to the T in order for the people to hear from God at all. And yet this man, Jesus, is professing that HIS Words are God's Words – and that God, in fact, sent Him to speak the Words. I imagine the murmurs…what did He say? This man is from God? How are we supposed to believe that? Jesus answers the murmurs, whether they were spoken audibly or just thought in the hearts of the listeners – because Jesus can hear and will answer what is in our hearts – we just need to listen. Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.  I want you to notice the order of this sentence… We must determine to do the will of God before we get the answers we are craving. There are many things that have changed since Jesus walked the earth, this is not one of them. God calls us to listen to Him in unbridled obedience before He imparts His understanding to us. That is called faith. And it can be difficult. Do you ever pray for wisdom from God? The Bible says we can, and we should, and when we do, God will lavish us with His wisdom. But, we have to resolve in our hearts that we WILL act in faith BEFORE we can experience God's wisdom for our lives. Let me say that again… We have to resolve in our hearts that we WILL act in faith BEFORE we can experience God's wisdom for our lives. Kimberly Hobbs started Women World Leaders 4 years ago on a word from God. And in God's perfect timing, He continues to build this ministry step by step. I pursued my Masters of Biblical Exposition upon God's call long before I knew what He intended me to do with it. Maybe you are seeking answers – should you start a family, begin that business, or make that move? Seek God's wisdom, certainly. But seek it with a steadfast heart, poised and ready to be obedient to His call. If you are asking if it is time to start a family and you want God's guidance, be ready to obey – whether that be to start a family the natural way, to adopt, foster, or wait on His timing. He will guide you – but only if you prepare yourself to be obedient no matter what He says! Jesus continues in vs 18, giving concrete guidance of whom they should follow and listen to… 18 Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies. 19 Moses gave you the law, but none of you obeys it! In fact, you are trying to kill me.” Have you ever played 20 questions? It's a game where one person thinks of a person, place, or object and the other players try to guess what it is. The players ask 20 yes or no questions trying to narrow down the field. Is it a person? Is it a man? Is he living? The point is to listen carefully to the clues and thoughtfully consider the answer. Jesus teaches the crowd that if we want to know if someone is speaking the truth, we should ask questions and consider the answers. And the first questions should be – Is the speaker looking for his or her own glory? Is the speaker seeking to honor God? Jesus doesn't tell the listeners to put their stock in Him or the Pharisees, but instead, Jesus asks them to discern wisely whom they will follow. And then Jesus gives them more to chew on – stating point blank that every person listening is flawed. He says that although they are well aware that they are to follow the law, none of them do. In fact, he states that many were targeting him for murder – and murder is clearly against the Ten Commandments. Today we would say that calling out someone's sin isn't a good way to Win Friends and Influence People. People want to be supported, to be honored, to hear how good they are. But sometimes, the truth hurts…and Jesus' goal was to speak the truth, teaching his listeners, and us, to use their God-given wisdom to each take their own stand in God's presence. Verse 28… 20 The crowd replied, “You're demon possessed! Who's trying to kill you?” 21 Jesus replied, “I did one miracle on the Sabbath, and you were amazed. 22 But you work on the Sabbath, too, when you obey Moses' law of circumcision. (Actually, this tradition of circumcision began with the patriarchs, long before the law of Moses.) 23 For if the correct time for circumcising your son falls on the Sabbath, you go ahead and do it so as not to break the law of Moses. So why should you be angry with me for healing a man on the Sabbath? 24 Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly.” Jesus was referring back to his healing of the paralyzed man on the Sabbath a year before. Because of that miracle of healing, the Pharisees and the teachers of the religious law were still plotting Jesus' death a whole year later. Jesus highlights the hypocrisy of the situation. It was considered lawful to “work” on the Sabbath if the work meant performing a circumcision, but it was UNlawful for Jesus to heal a man on the Sabbath. I love the sentence… Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly. The murmurs and the speculations continued… 25 Some of the people who lived in Jerusalem started to ask each other, “Isn't this the man they are trying to kill? 26 But here he is, speaking in public, and they say nothing to him. Could our leaders possibly believe that he is the Messiah? 27 But how could he be? For we know where this man comes from. When the Messiah comes, he will simply appear; no one will know where he comes from.” Jesus GAVE the people exactly what they needed so they could know exactly who He was. He offered miraculous teachings, healings, and guidance on how to discern truth. But still, they murmured amongst themselves and relied on the speculation of the so-called authorities. What a lesson for us today! Our world is in peril! Divisions are growing in every sector of society every day. God made you individually. He spent time creating each of our brains, planning out our days, and He provides for each of us and gives us each a mission. Our job as individuals is to ask the questions, to listen for the answers, and to respond in obedience ONLY to God – no matter what He says. Sometimes, when we are standing for God, it will feel like we are standing alone. At those moments, check yourself. And check back in with God, making sure you are hearing Him correctly. He WILL guide you. And you can be assured that when you are following God, you will NEVER by standing alone, because He will always have your back. Say YES to God! Before you even know what you are saying yes to! He will NEVER lead you astray. People WILL lead you astray, that is for certain, but God will ALWAYS guide you. Verse 28… 28 While Jesus was teaching in the Temple, he called out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I come from. But I'm not here on my own. The one who sent me is true, and you don't know him. 29 But I know him because I come from him, and he sent me to you.” 30 Then the leaders tried to arrest him; but no one laid a hand on him, because his time[b] had not yet come. 31 Many among the crowds at the Temple believed in him. “After all,” they said, “would you expect the Messiah to do more miraculous signs than this man has done?” Jesus determined to obediently follow God's call, even when the chips seemed down. And “many” in the crowd finally got it. They realized, THIS IS the Messiah AFTER they asked the questions and considered the answers. God granted them His wisdom that pointed to the truth. We all have MANY choices to make in our lives – we make decisions many times a day. The most important choice is who you will follow. You can trust that Jesus IS God. But if you still don't know, if you still aren't there, try an experiment. Say a prayer to God – ask Him to show you if He is real, and determine in your heart that you will respond based on His answer. God doesn't want you to believe in Him in a vacuum. Or just because I said to. Not at all. Jesus wants you to believe in Him based on the brains He put in your head and the evidence that He will give when you ask Him for it. And if you DO believe in Jesus, you already know what it is like to be obedient to Him. You know the joy and simplicity and power that comes with following His call. God is asking you to take that belief a step further – to intentionally obey Him, and only Him, with each decision you make. He's asking you to go DIRECTLY to Him and ask who you should support, follow, or trust; what path you should pursue; and when you should speak out for a cause. When you do, Jesus will give you the wisdom to follow the path He has ordained for you. With each decision you are presented, God wants you to decide in advance to faithfully obey Him, then ask Him the questions and listen for His discerning and guiding answer. Oh…if I sound passionate about this, I am! God has created you to be strong and take a stance many times every day of your life. We are in the middle of a war of good versus evil. Satan is on the prowl, and he seeks to steal, kill, and destroy ANY good that God has accomplished in and through His people. He deceives, he tricks, and he positions even Christians against each other in an effort to get his way and thwart God's plan. Let's not let him! Let's stand together, yes, but let's EACH be accountable to GOD! THAT is the only way we can truly accomplish His plans! Let's pray… Dear Most Holy God! You are righteous, perfect, and on the throne! We come to you this minute and we come to you every minute of every day, seeking your wisdom. We ask you to guide us and lead us to walk in your will and your way. God, we give you our lives to do with as you will – and we pledge our obedience, to walk and stand tall in obedience to you – no matter what that looks like. We ask for and trust that you will give us your strength and endurance to do ALL that you have called us to do – one, single step at a time! In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.

Sermon on Acts 2:22-36 by Pastor Jeff McInnis from Springhill Community Church

Douglas Sean O'Donnell (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is the senior vice president of Bible editorial at Crossway. He is the author and editor of over a dozen books, including The Beginning and End of Wisdom; The Pastor's Book; The Song of Solomon and Matthew in the Preaching the Word commentary series; and Psalms in the Knowing the Bible series. He also contributed the Song of Solomon and Job to the ESV Expository Commentary. In this conversation he speaks with Mike about his upcoming book (co-written with Leeland Ryken) The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition: Preaching the Literary Artistry and Genres of the BibleHe believes that instead of just acknowledging the various genres of Scripture, pastors and teachers should allow these genres to influence how the text is approached and communicated. They also speak about poetry, finding the "melodic line" in scripture passages and the importance of pastoral investment in the lives of the congregation. Resources Mentioned:The Beauty and Power of Biblical Exposition https://www.crossway.org/books/the-beauty-and-power-of-biblical-exposition-tpb/ The Pastor's Book: https://www.crossway.org/books/the-pastors-book-case/ Literarily: How Understanding Bible Genres Transforms Bible Study https://www.moodypublishers.com/literarily/Recommended Episodes:Why You Need to Understand Literary Genre - Kristi Anyabwile : https://www.expositorscollective.com/podcast/2021/10/23/why-you-need-to-understand-literary-genre-kristi-anyabwile Preaching Funerals - Nick Cady + Mike Neglia : https://www.expositorscollective.com/podcast/2020/4/7/episode-100-preaching-funerals How to Interpret and Apply the Bible - Cody King: https://www.expositorscollective.com/podcast/2021/11/2/how-to-interpret-and-apply-the-bible-cody-king Sermon Prep involves Time, Work and Prayer - Eric Cartier : https://www.expositorscollective.com/podcast/2021/12/7/sermon-prep-involves-time-work-and-prayer-eric-cartierJoin our private Facebook group to continue the conversation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ExpositorsCollectiveThe Expositors Collective podcast is part of the GoodLion podcast network, for more thought provoking Christian podcasts visit https://goodlion.io

Phillips Brooks, the nineteenth-century minister who wrote “O Little Town of Bethlehem,” defined preaching as “the communication of Truth through Personality.” Truth is “the most authoritative statement of God's will,” he said. Personality refers to a preacher's “character, his affections, his whole intellectual and moral being.” (As Pentecostals, we would add “or her” to Brooks' statement.) Absent genuine character, a preacher is merely a “printing machine” or a “trumpet,” not “a real messenger of God.” In this episode of the Influence Podcast, I'm talking to Bob Eby about the relationship of preaching to the character or virtues of the preacher. I'm George P. Wood, executive editor of Influence magazine and your host. Bob Eby is director of the Cordas C. Burnett Preaching Center and associate professor of Biblical Exposition and Preaching at Assemblies of God Theological Seminary in Springfield, Missouri. He is author of Virtue Hermeneutics: New Horizons in Textual Understanding, published by Pickwick Publications. ----- This episode of the Influence Podcast is brought to you by My Healthy Church, distributors of Bible Engagement Project. Bible Engagement Project gives churches access to a library of kids curriculum and small group resources all in one subscription. Visit BibleEngagementProject.com to download sample lessons.

On June 24, 2022 the Supreme Court of the United States made a historic decision to overturn Roe vs Wade. Join the guys as they get behind the mics to talk about the decision, some history behind it, and what is next for the professing believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Read the LSB: read.lsbible.org For Life and Godliness podcast episode, “How Did We Get Here?” MoT Episode, “Abolition vs. Pro-Life, and Abortifacients” Just Thinking podcast episode 106, “A Biblical Exposition of Unity” Just Thinking podcast episode 105, “The Doctrine of Elections” “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”” Matthew 28:18-20, LSB

On June 24, 2022 the Supreme Court of the United States made a historic decision to overturn Roe vs Wade. Join the guys as they get behind the mics to talk about the decision, some history behind it, and what is next for the professing believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Read the LSB: read.lsbible.org For Life and Godliness podcast episode, “How Did We Get Here?” MoT Episode, “Abolition vs. Pro-Life, and Abortifacients” Just Thinking podcast episode 106, “A Biblical Exposition of Unity” Just Thinking podcast episode 105, “The Doctrine of Elections” “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”” Matthew 28:18-20, LSB

Jesus' love and power have no borders. And we, His disciples, are called to serve in God's power to every nation and tongue. As we study Matthew 15:21-39 and Mark 7:24-8:10, we will uncover the lessons that underlie Jesus' miracles of healing and provision to both the Jew and the Gentile. ******* Welcome to Walking in the Word, the biblical teaching arm of the Women World Leaders' podcast. My name is Julie Jenkins. I have the privilege of being the Teaching Leader for Women World Leaders. I've spent years studying the Bible – diving into God's Word, seeking to know Him better and to hear His voice more clearly. Shortly after I graduated from college I had a conversation with a friend, lamenting to her that I was feeling far from Jesus. Her advice was to spend time reading the Bible, to which I responded, I don't know how to read the Bible. That began my journey of attempting to quench my thirst for knowing Jesus…and after many classes, studies, and even a obtaining a masters degree in Biblical Exposition, I've come to the realization that the more I know Jesus, the more I want to know Him deeper. So I keep studying, and I keep growing. It is my honor and joy to share with you what I have learned along the way, and to keep learning even as I prepare these podcasts. I am thrilled you have come alongside me in this quest, and I hope you will join us on Saturday, June 4th from 9:30-12:30 et as we host our first Women World Leaders gathering since the onset of covid! This free event, appropriately titled Renew, will be held in South Florida, but will also be broadcast on Facebook Live. We will have teaching, worship, and will be blessed by DeAnn Alaine, a hysterical comedian, who you can learn more about at deannalaine.com (d e a n n a l a i n e .com). You can register for the event and find out more information on our website, womenworldleaders.com. And if you can't attend in person, find us on Facebook under the name Women World Leaders. On this, the Wednesday edition of the Women World Leaders podcast, we are currently walking through the gospels chronologically as we study the life of Jesus. Today, we will focus on Matthew 15:21-39 and Mark 7:24-8:10. Before we begin, let's pray. Dear Most Holy God, we come to you today seeking your presence and yearning to know you more. Guide our minds and our hearts as we study. We invite you to not only teach and bless us, but to convict and refine us. Sharpen our rough edges, help our unbelief, and heighten our understanding of who you are. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.   As we walk with Jesus, we learn from both His actions and His teaching to the crowds, His disciples, and individuals. This isn't different from what we have been studying, but what IS different in today's reading, is that Jesus has moved away from Jewish territory, and is ministering among the Gentiles, in their land. In fact, the people we encounter today have a reputation for being godless and controlled by a desire for wealth and power. The renown Jewish historian Josephus, called the people from this area ‘bitter enemies' of the Jews. And yet, Jesus led His disciples there, and by looking at Jesus in these unique surroundings, we realize that His love and power have no borders – that He indeed came for the salvation of all. In this passage, we see a trio of events unfold – the freeing of a Gentile girl from demon control, physical healing of Gentile individuals, and a miracle of provision as Jesus feeds well over 4000 Gentile people. Let's begin in Matthew, chapter 15, verse 21 from the New Living Translation. 21 Then Jesus left Galilee and went north to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Gentile woman who lived there came to him, pleading, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! For my daughter is possessed by a demon that torments her severely.” The Gentile woman approaches Jesus, full of faith in Jesus, whom she calls Lord, Son of David – clearly a tribute to the fact that He is the Jewish Messiah – far outside of her own race and her culture's beliefs. Strikingly, Verse 23 says… 23 But Jesus gave her no reply, not even a word. Then his disciples urged him to send her away. “Tell her to go away,” they said. “She is bothering us with all her begging.” Maybe you've been there. I bet you can remember a time in your life when you sought out Jesus and cried out to Him – “Have mercy on me Lord, I need you.” And then you heard…nothing. Silence. It's tempting to think all sorts of things in those moments of silence – whether they be mere seconds or if they stretch into years. Is God there? Did He hear me? Does He care? Is God even real? But Jesus' silence didn't sway the Gentile woman… Finally, Jesus DOES reply…but it surely isn't what we would expect… “I was sent only to help God's lost sheep—the people of Israel.” Wow. Still, this faithful non-Jew doesn't give up, because she knows what Jesus can do. So she chose to worship Him. When we are at our lowest, and God seems silent, the best thing we can do is hold onto our faith, and worship God! Proclaim Him as our Lord out loud, letting the devil and the world know exactly where we stand and exactly who we belong to! Verse 25… 25 But she came and worshiped him, pleading again, “Lord, help me!” 26 Jesus responded, (again, NOT how we would expect) “It isn't right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.” That's harsh! Was Jesus calling this woman a dog? The Jewish people DID call their Gentile neighbors dogs, in a very derogatory way. They considered them low-life, scroungers, wild, and unrefined. But for Jesus to say this? Upon looking at the structure of word usage in the original text, many theologians believe that Jesus was creatively playing off this customary derogatory name-calling. But, rather than use the word for mangy stray dog, as was the norm, Jesus used the word for beloved family pet. And the woman caught on, responding… “That's true, Lord, but even dogs are allowed to eat the scraps that fall beneath their masters' table.” A very funny aside: I was studying these particular verses this morning when my sweet puppy jumped up on me and curled up in my lap. As I pet my Marlo and thought about how much I loved him, I laughed at God's real-time illustration to me of this passage! Oh…how I love my puppy! And to think, my love for him doesn't even BEGIN to compare with how much God loves me. And how much He loves you. You see, Jesus DID come for the Israelites. We've seen that. The Old Testament tells their story, and here, in the New Testament, we see Jesus as the obvious fulfillment of the Jewish law and the prophets. But the deeper reality is that Jesus didn't come JUST for the Jewish people. He's just too big to be a God of only one nation. He is God of all the nations – every tribe and tongue, throughout all of history. In this passage we see that it was time for the world…and the disciples…to recognize that Jesus is a God for all people for all time. This Gentile woman may not have understood the depth of Jesus' reign, but she KNEW that Jesus was there FOR her and her daughter. And Jesus put HER faith on display for the world – and the disciples – to learn from. Verse 28.. 28 “Dear woman,” Jesus said to her, “your faith is great. Your request is granted.” And her daughter was instantly healed. Mark 7:30 says…  30 And when she arrived home, she found her little girl lying quietly in bed, and the demon was gone. Jesus' love and power have no borders! Matthew continues… 29 Jesus returned to the Sea of Galilee and climbed a hill and sat down. 30 A vast crowd brought to him people who were lame, blind, crippled, those who couldn't speak, and many others. They laid them before Jesus, and he healed them all. 31 The crowd was amazed! Those who hadn't been able to speak were talking, the crippled were made well, the lame were walking, and the blind could see again! And they praised the God of Israel. As if to emphasize that Jesus is the God of the many AND the God of the one, Mark's version focuses in on the healing of one individual deaf man…Mark 7:33… 33 Jesus led him away from the crowd so they could be alone. He put his fingers into the man's ears. Then, spitting on his own fingers, he touched the man's tongue. 34 Looking up to heaven, he sighed and said, “Ephphatha,” ( eh FAH thah) which means, “Be opened!” 35 Instantly the man could hear perfectly, and his tongue was freed so he could speak plainly! Jesus' power and love have no borders. Next we read a story that sounds oh-so-familiar. Remember when Jesus fed the crowd of 5000 Jews with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish? Well, here He is again, in the midst of another crowd. This one a little smaller – there were only 4000 Gentile men along with women and children in this crowd. And instead of being there for a day listening to Jesus teach, these non-Jews had been in this remote area learning from the best for three days! Matthew 15:32… 32 Then Jesus called his disciples and told them, “I feel sorry for these people. They have been here with me for three days, and they have nothing left to eat. I don't want to send them away hungry, or they will faint along the way.” 33 The disciples replied, “Where would we get enough food here in the wilderness for such a huge crowd?” 34 Jesus asked, “How much bread do you have?” They replied, “Seven loaves, and a few small fish.” 35 So Jesus told all the people to sit down on the ground. 36 Then he took the seven loaves and the fish, thanked God for them, and broke them into pieces. He gave them to the disciples, who distributed the food to the crowd. 37 They all ate as much as they wanted. Afterward, the disciples picked up seven large baskets of leftover food. 38 There were 4,000 men who were fed that day, in addition to all the women and children. 39 Then Jesus sent the people home, and he got into a boat and crossed over to the region of Magadan. (MEAH gah dan) Several things we can learn from feeding of the 2nd crowd: First, when we remember what God has done, our faith will grow. Jesus used this opportunity to remind the disciples of what He was capable of. I can recall as a young Christian remembering that I could pray about something. I don't know why, but I was stressed, up against something that felt impossible. And the Holy Spirit reminded me to pray. It was so freeing, to remember how amazing our God is! God isn't like lightning – He can strike twice in the same spot! When we remember His miracles in our lives, our faith will grow. Second, Jesus cares and will always provide what we need. I love that Jesus recognized that these Gentiles were so hungry that they were in danger of fainting on the way home. And after all, He knew they had stories to share about what they had seen! Jesus recognized their need and gave them nourishment to share what they had learned with others. Jesus cares and will always provide what we need. And the third thing we can learn…you can probably guess…Jesus' love and power have no borders.. Jesus may have been come to earth as the Son of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob – the Jewish forefathers. And He certainly fulfilled what the Jewish prophets foretold of their Messiah. But Jesus came for every person – and He gave His life for every person – and He lives for every person. Jesus performed miracles and taught among the Jews. And THEN He performed miracles and taught among the Gentiles. Jesus blessed the bread and fish, and give it to the disciples to feed the hungry crowd of Jewish men, women and children. The disciples then gathered 12 baskets of leftovers. As you study the Bible, you will begin to recognize that 12 is a significant number that occurs often, leading us back to the 12 tribes of Israel. And then Jesus blessed some bread and fish AGAIN, giving it to the disciples for them to feed the crowd of Gentiles. This time, they collected 7 baskets of leftovers. Seven is the number of completion in the Bible. God's is gathering His complete family. He began with the Jewish people, but He has welcomed in every tribe and tongue and nation. Jesus multiplied the bread and fish as the disciples passed it out to both the Jews and the Gentiles. But Jesus had far more for the disciples to give to the world on His behalf. Jesus taught and cared for the disciples that they might teach and care for the world. If you have given your life to Christ, you, too, are a disciple – tasked with teaching and caring for God's people. Those from every nation. God has provided for you, and through His blessing and the work of your hands, His following will continue to grow on this earth. We all have a calling. And it is only when we each do what we are called to do that every nation will be reached. Let's pray… Dear Jesus…thank you for coming for the crowd and for the one. Thank you for coming for the Jew and the Gentile. Thank you for your provision that we all might be here today, leaning into your teaching. Thank you for the opportunity you give each of us to share your blessings with a world in need. God, help us to remember that your power has no borders, and that you call each of us to harness that power to spread your name throughout this earth. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.      

Hello Friends! Today's episode is very special because this is our 100th Episode of Thrive! Can you believe that?! First, thank you so much – I couldn't have done it without you. Thank you for your emails, messages, and of course, your reviews! My main goal is to help you thrive in your life. My passion has always been to help others realize that they are God's masterpiece. That's what the podcast is all about. When creating this podcast in 2020, it was important to me that we talk about the physical, the spiritual, and the mental – the whole person. I'm also excited about this episode because of who is on the show today. My actual real-life friends Denise Pass and Michelle Nietert are my guests today. We discuss their new book, Makeup Your Mind, and how we can lean on God for our mental health. Denise Pass holds an MA in Biblical Exposition and is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Biblical Exposition at Liberty University. The author of Make Up Your Mind, Shame Off You, and 31 Days to Hope Reinvented, Denise has also written songs that received radio play, including You Are Worthy, Seeing Deep EP, and songs from her album Praying For You. She has appeared in Focus on the Family, Charisma, Belief.net, ibelieve.com, The Upper Room, and other publications. Denise currently serves on the writing team for Proverbs 31 Ministries' First 5 app and the writing team for the COMPEL blog. Michelle Nietert, M.A., as a previous minister to women, licensed professional counselor, and Christian Life Coach of over two decades, Michelle has been passionately inspiring women for over 25 years. She relates well to audiences of various ages as she juggles running a large counseling center in the DFW area, writing, hosting the Raising Mentally Healthy Kids podcast, and speaking. She is passionate about empowering women to overcome the negative mindsets holding them back from living the abundant lives God has promised them. Her energetic presentations are interactive, biblical, and relevant to everyday life. Listen in to learn more about : Denise and Michelle's heart for this book and why they decided to write it How our mindsets are so important to our mental health The common causes of negative mindsets and what can we do about them. How do we have the mind of Christ? Resources Connect with Denise and Michelle Denise's website: denisepass.com Michelle's website: yourmentalhealthcoach.com Pick up a copy of the book: Makeupyourmind.com Connect with Melissa Instagram: @MelissaClarkCounseling Website - www.melisaaclarkcounseling.com

What began as five loaves of bread and two fish from a boy's lunch fed well over 5000 people – with leftovers to spare! We've all heard this story. Let's look at this passage with fresh eyes as we study Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:30-44, Luke 9:10-17, and John 6:1-15. ******** Dear Most Holy God…we are indeed privileged to come before you and to sit at your feet. Thank you for meeting us each where we are and for guiding us as we study your Word. God, I pray that you would forgive me of all my sins so that I may be a clean vessel to hear your voice clearly. We know that there is something specific that you want us each to learn and know today, and we humbly ask you to open our ears and hearts to receive your teaching. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.   If you've been around the Christian faith for very long, you likely know the story of Jesus feeding the five thousand that is chronicled in Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:30-44, Luke 9:10-17, and John 6:1-15. Maybe that is even how you happened upon today's podcast! But even if you know the story by heart, we should go back to the Bible and look at it with fresh eyes. Have you ever noticed how easy it is to turn our brains off when we “know something so well”? That is precisely why we need to remind ourselves that God's Word is living and active…meaning that there is something new for us to discover EVERY time we read it. God's news is never old news. We will never, on this earth, come to understand EVERYTHING God has to teach us, even from a single passage. So let me encourage you today to engage your mind and imagination as I read this story…especially if it is familiar to you. I know I often tout this podcast as one you can listen to as you are driving or walking or doing chores…but…if it is possible, I encourage you to stop for a moment and really concentrate and imagine the scene as I read Mark 6:30-44 from the New Living Translation.   Mark 6:30-44 30 The apostles returned to Jesus from their ministry tour and told him all they had done and taught. 31 Then Jesus said, “Let's go off by ourselves to a quiet place and rest awhile.” He said this because there were so many people coming and going that Jesus and his apostles didn't even have time to eat. 32 So they left by boat for a quiet place, where they could be alone. 33 But many people recognized them and saw them leaving, and people from many towns ran ahead along the shore and got there ahead of them. 34 Jesus saw the huge crowd as he stepped from the boat, and he had compassion on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things. 35 Late in the afternoon his disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it's already getting late. 36 Send the crowds away so they can go to the nearby farms and villages and buy something to eat.” 37 But Jesus said, “You feed them.” “With what?” they asked. “We'd have to work for months to earn enough money[a] to buy food for all these people!” 38 “How much bread do you have?” he asked. “Go and find out.” They came back and reported, “We have five loaves of bread and two fish.” 39 Then Jesus told the disciples to have the people sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in groups of fifty or a hundred. 41 Jesus took the five loaves and two fish, looked up toward heaven, and blessed them. Then, breaking the loaves into pieces, he kept giving the bread to the disciples so they could distribute it to the people. He also divided the fish for everyone to share. 42 They all ate as much as they wanted, 43 and afterward, the disciples picked up twelve baskets of leftover bread and fish. 44 A total of 5,000 men and their families were fed.[b]   I've heard so many teachings on this passage. I've learned how God used this day to grow the faith of the disciples as they were given the opportunity to actually hand out the food as it was multiplied. And then walk away with a basket full of leftovers each. I've learned how the people must have viewed the event as they realized that Jesus would always have time for them and would never send them away hungry. And I've looked at this story from the little boy's viewpoint – imagining how he felt as he gave his lunch away, only to see a crowd of people filled by his own unselfish act. But today, I couldn't help but read this story from the viewpoint of Jesus himself. The disciples had returned from their mission and were telling Jesus of their adventures, but there was so much more happening. Matthew 14:13 begins this passage with As soon as Jesus heard the news, he left in a boat to a remote area to be alone. Other translations make it clear that the news that Jesus heard that sent him to seek solace was the death of His friend, cousin, and ministry co-worker, John the Baptist - who had been disgustingly beheaded by a crazed ruler. King Jesus had stepped down from heaven…forsaking His glory and riches and reign….into a world riddled with sin and evil. He was born in a stable, grew up in a poor family in a country that was persecuted by Roman rule, and had his life on the line several times. But He had John. John and Jesus met while they were both still in the womb. The Bible is silent on the days of their youth, but we know that, culturally, families stuck together. And we know that John was there to prepare the way for Jesus. He taught of Him, and then stepped out of the way when Jesus was ready to step into His ministry. And Jesus LOVED John…He said there was no one born who was greater than John. Jesus was surely heartbroken at John's death. And He needed to be alone. We've all been there…when ALL we need is for God to take care of us. And God did take care of Jesus…by way of a boat. Our God is so creative. We can trust that when we walk in God's will, He will always give us exactly what we need. Jesus…the Son of God…had a moment in His humanity where He needed to be alone with God…and God made sure He had that moment … by giving Him a boat. God will always give us what we need.   The crowd didn't know Jesus needed to alone though, and they found out where He was going and they followed Him. When Jesus saw the crowd, He had compassion on them. Luke says in chapter 9 verse 11 He welcomed them and taught them about the Kingdom of God, and he healed those who were sick. The text says that Jesus had compassion on the people and He taught them and healed them…but looking from Jesus' perspective, I can see how God was AGAIN taking care of Jesus by giving Him exactly what He needed – the opportunity to operate in His ordained purpose. Have you ever stepped into your calling? Really stepped into it? I can remember when our dear worship leader lost her mother. After handling and attending the funeral, she made her way back home to Florida, where she proceeded to lead worship for one of our gatherings. As she led, she told us that leading worship is what she was put on this earth to do. When we step into our calling, we certainly bless others, but God blesses the one who is obedient even more! When we step into our calling, we may think we are being obedient to God…and we are…but it is really God who is taking care of us, giving us exactly what WE need. A writer who writes, a healthcare worker who cares for the sick, and a mother who cheers on her child all have one thing in common. They all get energized and fulfilled when they are doing what they are called to do. God knows that operating in our God-given gifting propels us forward like nothing else can – and He gives us the opportunity to use the gifts He has given us, because He knows that is what we need. Jesus' gift was to love. His purpose that day was to teach and to heal. And God gave Jesus what He needed.   Jesus' further calling was to showcase God's power and to teach others to do the same. And God gave Him THAT opportunity. The disciples noticed that the crowd was hungry. The disciples thought that good leadership would be to allow the people to go eat. But Jesus taught them that true leadership hinges on a dependence of God's power. So Jesus harnessed that power…and God faithfully provided what Jesus needed. Jesus took the five small loaves and the two fish and offered them to God, who miraculously multiplied them – giving them the power to nourish the bodies of well over 5000 people.   We can trust that God will always give us what we need … Jesus needed to be alone in a time of grief…and God provided the boat. Jesus needed to serve…and God gave Him the opportunity to heal and teach. Jesus needed to showcase God's power, so He lifted His hands to heaven in total dependence on God…and God provided a multiplication of His power.   Do you ever wonder if walking in the flesh was difficult for Jesus? We tend to dismiss that thought – because Jesus is God. But Jesus was also fully human. And what He was asked to do was a lot! But He went to God…in solitude…in His calling…and in total dependence on His power. And God never let Him down. God gave Jesus exactly what He needed to do what He was called to do. And when we go to Him and walk in OUR calling, He will give US what we need. Even when Jesus was tired and what was ahead of Him looked impossible, He thrived, because He relied on God. And God provided exceedingly and abundantly beyond. Let's pray… Father God…thank you for this new perspective on the feeding of the 5000. Thank you for teaching us that YOU are enough, and that you will always provide us with what we need. God, I thank you for always being there and for allowing us to meet you in the one-on-one. I thank you for giving us each a ministry – a calling – a job to do for you, and for reminding us that when we step into that calling, you bless us and those we minister to. And I thank you for always being willing to send your power. God, Women World Leaders would not be in existence if not for your power. Nor would we each be walking individually without the strength that you so graciously give us on a daily basis. We thank you, and we recognize that you have called us, you are walking with us, and you will continue to empower us. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.  

Recently Drew sent in a list of 10 questions to a podcast to see if they would answer some questions about their subject matter. So, we thought it would be a good idea to address the same questions. Tune in as the guys have a little impromptu freestyle Q&A time. Enjoy! Check out the preferred translation of MoT, the Legacy Standard Bible: read.lsbible.org Check out these 2 videos from Justin Peters concerning Todd White: Defending Todd White is Defending the Indefensible Todd White Should Step Down Listen to “Holy Spirit, Activate!” HERE Listen to the Just Thinking Podcast, Episode 106 “A Biblical Exposition of Unity” HERE

A small golden nugget found in a stream... or a mine full of gold in the walls. Where would you spend most of your time looking and digging? Are you satisfied with the very little, or do you open up opportunity to see the whole breadth of wealth? After living in exile, the Jewish nation has come back to their land and rebuilt Jerusalem and their homes. The leaders assemble the people, and the priest Ezra begins to read from the Book of the Law. Pr. David Merkh Jr. looks at this moment to share a view of how God wants us to view His Word, how we should study it, and what God's results can be when we do. Read the Passage: Nehemiah 8 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Nehemiah%208&version=NIV Pr. David Merkh Jr. (guest speaker) is a lead pastor at Primeira Igreja Batista de Atibaia and president of "Pregue a Palavra" ministry.

Workshops on Biblical Exposition Small Group Preparation Worksheet Instructions: In your small group, you will have 5 minutes to present on each of your passages. For each of your assigned passages, please respond to the questions below and provide 10 copies of this one-page handout (front and back, typed) that will assist your group in offering productive feedback. If you do not understand any of these questions, please visit simeontrust.org/prepare/ to find additional advice. 1. How has the author organized this passage? Please a) show the structure in sections with verse references and b) explain what strategies you used to see this structure. What is the emphasis revealed by the structure? 2. How does the context inform the meaning of this passage? Please consider: a) the literary context (passages before and after the passage), b) the historical context (circumstances of the authors audience), c) the cultural context (details relevant to life as it was lived in this place at this time), and d) the biblical context (citations/allusions or historical connections to other books that the author is making). Please list only those that are relevant to the meaning of the passage. 3. What is the argument being advanced by the author to his audience (summarized in one short sentence)? 4. How does this passage connect to the gospel of Jesus Christ? What part of the gospel is in view? 5. What argument will you advance to your audience (summarized in one short sentence)? 6. What applications will you make? Consider both Christians and non-Christians. 7. What is your sermon title and your preaching outline? CHARLES SIMEON TRUST ⓒ 2021

Motherhood is often exhausting, and as a mother, it can seem like there's always one more thing. One more dirty diaper. One more temper tantrum. One more after-school activity. One more pointless argument. And when we're dealing with one thing after another after another, motherhood can quickly feel joyless... ________________________________ SUBSCRIBE TO OUR DEVOTIONAL NEWSLETTER TO STAY CONNECTED WITH OUR MINISTRY Go to www.mommatheologians.com Find articles and essays written by mothers just like you as they share stories and reflections about how they grow spiritually in Christ in the midst of motherhood. Join our community on Instagram @mommatheologians Our team consists of fifteen writers and Momma Theologians, plus myself, but it is always a joy to host and steward other's words in this space to encourage you on in your spiritual growth. If you are a writer and would enjoy the opportunity to be featured on our podcast, just like Tristany Corgan is featured on this one, or to have your essay published at Momma Theologians, check out our writer's and submissions guidelines at: mommatheologians.com/writer __________________ Momma Theologians Guest Writer Tristany Corgan Tristany lives in sunny central Florida. She graduated in May 2021 with her master's degree in Biblical Exposition from Liberty University, and she works at a local Christian non-profit. She is an avid reader, amateur photographer, and self-proclaimed theology nerd, and she loves flowers, oldies music, and going to Disney World. Tristany has a passion for encouraging women to know and love the Word of God, and she writes about the Bible and theology regularly at tristanycorgan.com.

Dr. Randal Joy Thompson is a global wanderer who has been moving from country to country working in international development since the 1980s. She has worked and lived in India, Cameroon, Morocco, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Liberia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Jordan and worked short term in a number of other countries. She loves exploring new cultures and working with teams of local nationals who always teach her new things about the world and what is important to value. As a scholar-practitioner, she recently focused on "leadership on the commons." Her book Proleptic Leadership on the Commons: Ushering in a New Global Era was published in October 2020 and her upcoming co-edited book (with Devin Singh and Kathleen Curran) Reimagining Leadership on the Commons: Shifting the Paradigm for a More Ethical, Equitable, and Just World will be published on September 29, 2021.  Her 2018 co-edited with Julia Storberg-Walker book Leadership and Power in International Development: Navigating the Intersections of Gender, Culture, Context, and Sustainability won the 2018 Academy for Human Resource Development R. Wayne Pace HRD Book of the Year Award. She has published articles and chapters on women in El Salvador, Afghanistan, Morocco, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Myanmar.  Her company, Dream Connect Global, creates networks to help people achieve their dream. She earned her Ph.D. in Human and Organization Systems from Fielding Graduate University, a MA in Philosophy and MBA from the University of Chicago, a MA in Biblical Exposition from Capital Seminary and Graduate School, and a BA in Philosophy from the University of California, Berkeley.  She is currently a Fellow at Fielding's Institute for Social Innovation. She is a mother of two sons and a grandmother of five grandkids. To learn more about her work,  visit Randal's Website. A Powerful Quote From This Episode"Commoners are living with the values, the relationships, that they would hope society would evolve into. That prefigurative. And it's a powerful way of change. But when you translate that into leadership, it's 'proleptic.' Because you have that vision of that perfect society that you want to create. And that vision drives your leadership, it drives the way you are, what you're being on every level...on the personal level, on the inner relational level, on the social level. Once you have that vision so clear, glimpses of it keep coming to you."Resource Mentioned in This EpisodeBook: Governing the Commons by Elinor OstromSample Eco Village: EcoVillage at IthacaAssociation: International Society for the Study of the CommonsCity of the Future: TelosaAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. Connect with Scott AllenWebsite

To wrap up this series, we have a brief Q - A.--Come visit us--For more information- http---gracesavannah.org--To give securely- https---gracesavannah.org-give-To watch live- https---gracesavannah.org-live--Title- Q - A on Biblical Exposition-Series- Biblical Exposition-Speaker- Shaun Marksbury-Bible- Luke 24- 1 Timothy 2-Date- August 1, 2021

Season 2 of MoT continues as Chris takes some time to address the issue of worship both individually and corporately. The word worship has been hijacked and redefined to lessen the meaning and weight of it in the life of professing evangelical Christians. This should not be! Check out the latest installment of MoT, “A Retrieval of the Word, “Worship.”” Legacy Standard Bible Voice of Reason Radio with Chris Hohnholz and Richard Story Just Thinking Podcast, Episode 106, “A Biblical Exposition of Unity” Just Thinking Podcast, Episode 112, “Has God Really Said?” “Defining Deception,” Costi Hinn and Anthony Wood “Strange Fire” Dr. John MacArthur “Worship: The Ultimate Priority” Dr. John MacArthur 2020 G3 National Conference: Worship --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

On this special episode, Justin talks through a open letter to the University of Northwestern - St. Paul written by co-host Josh Feland and special guest Hayley Tschetter. Read to the open letter: http://chng.it/RfBSjyH9 Listen to the next episode. Just Thinking Podcast EP #106 "A Biblical Exposition of Unity" --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/torchlighters/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/torchlighters/support

Subsequent to the presidential election held in the United States on November 3, 2020, many evangelical leaders, primarily on social media, began exhorting Christians to come together in a spirit of unity around the presumed incoming administration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Notwithstanding that, officially, the outcome of the aforementioned contest had yet to be determined, a fundamental question remains: What kind of unity is acceptable to the church and, more importantly, to God? In their final episode of the 2020 podcast season, Darrell Harrison and Virgil "Omaha" Walker answer that question expositionally—and unequivocally—from Scripture.    Resources Related episodes EP # 047 | Where is Your Hope? EP # 079 | One Church, One Body EP # 096 | Christian Contentment EP # 099 | Assurance of Salvation Related blog articles The Gospel in a Hostile World - Jeremiah Johnson (Grace to You blog post) The Basis of Christian Unity - D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (Amazon.com) Holiness - J.C. Ryle (Amazon.com) Christ's Call to Reform the Church - John MacArthur (Grace to You) Support To support the podcast, please click here or copy/paste the following link into your browser - https://justthinking.me/support/ Disclaimer © Darrell B. Harrison and Just Thinking Ministries - 2012-2020. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Darrell B. Harrison and Just Thinking…for Myself with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Denise Pass shares rich insights from her recent, intense battle with COVID. The author of Shame Off You and a women's event speaker. Denise is a Bible teacher, worship leader, podcaster, and CCM Artist/Songwriter with her ministry, Seeing Deep Ministries. Currently pursuing an MA in Biblical Exposition from Liberty University, Denise is passionate about stopping Biblical illiteracy. A homeschool mom for 23 years, Denise and her husband enjoy family time and traveling. Connect with Denise at www.denisepass.com.

What personal qualities are the most important as a pastor or teacher studies the Bible week after week? I offer five of the twelve virtues listed by Kostenberger and Patterson in their book, Invitation to Biblical Interpretation. All twelve virtues listed by the authors help the process and habit of exegesis a reality. Thank God we have a lifetime to pursue them. I choose five to focus on: be spiritual, sensible, and seasoned; be intentional and deliberate; and be committed... Darlene Franklin is a million-books-sold Christian author. An occasional contributor to Pastor Resources, she has enrolled in the Ph.D. in Biblical Exposition at Liberty University. This article stems from her coursework. www.DarleneFranklin.com

  Recently, the National Museum of African American History & Culture (NMAAHC) posted on its website an infographic titled “Aspects & Assumptions of Whiteness & White Culture in the United States.” The infographic, which has since been removed from the NMAAHC website, outlined 14 areas that, in the opinion of the NMAAHC, are rooted in “whiteness” and “white culture.” In this special episode of the Just Thinking Podcast, Darrell Harrison and Virgil “Omaha” Walker conduct an in-depth analysis of the infographic through the lens of Scripture. The episode is part Bible study and part history lesson. Resources Related episodes EP # 063 | Slavery Reparations EP # 067 | Whiteness EP # 081 | Black Nationalism, White Fatherlessness EP # 092 | Racial Reconciliation? EP # 093 | A Biblical Theology of the Role of Government Related blog articles N/A Related external media Abraham Johnstone: Address to the People of Color Up From Slavery: the Autobiography of Booker T. Washington (book) — Amazon.com The History of Mary Prince: a West Indian Slave (book) — Amazon.com On Her Own Ground: The Life & Times of Madam C.J. Walker (book) — Amazon.com Support To support the podcast, please click here or copy/paste the following link into your browser - https://justthinking.me/support/ Disclaimer © Darrell B. Harrison and Just Thinking…for Myself 2012-2020. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Darrell B. Harrison and Just Thinking…for Myself with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.  

On Today's episode, Monica and Sarah Delamarter discuss that age-old question, “Who is God?”  They’ll explore how we can see him in our everyday life, hear his guidance and grow to better know him.   Sarah is currently enrolled in the Masters of Biblical Exposition program at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago and will graduate in May 2020. Driven by her passion for pointing women and girls to Jesus through the truth of God’s word, she has also founded #ragtagwarriors, an online community of women doing life together, authentically, and with grit and God.  Home, for Sarah, is in the Pacific Northwest where she’s raising her three kids and three dogs. While her children describe her as “always singing and dancing,” Sarah self-identifies as “somewhat  organized” and someone that enjoys all kinds of music, most kinds of fitness, bible study, reading, Netflix comedy specials, strong coffee and a bold glass of wine.  Connect with Sarah on Instagram & Facebook Connect with Monica on Instagram & Facebook Join over 550 women in The Sisterhood Effect community here

On today’s episode of the Journeywomen podcast, we’re kicking off a brand new series on the fruit of the Spirit with Amy Gannett! In this series, we hope to grow in our understanding of how the Spirit helps us mirror the character of God. Amy Gannett is a Bible teacher and writer with a passion for good theology and exegetical Bible study. She got her B.A. in Biblical Exposition and Biblical Studies from Moody Bible Institute and her Masters of Divinity from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. She teaches a digital Bible study through her website and creates theology training tools for kids through Tiny Theologians. Amy and her husband, Austin, are currently church planters in eastern North Carolina.    RESOURCES Biblehub.com for word study (INT) Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians by Martin Luther Galatians for You by Tim Keller Living Beyond Yourself by Beth Moore Tiny Theologian Cards   CONNECT WITH AMY Website Facebook Twitter   SCRIPTURE REFERENCES Galatians 5   DISCUSSION QUESTIONS • What does it mean to walk in the Spirit?  • How has your view of the passage on the fruit of the Spirit grown or changed? • What's the difference between keeping in step with the Spirit versus trying to produce good fruit in and of our own strength? • How can you praise God for how he has grown you in the last year? • What will abiding in Christ look like for you this week?   SCRIPTURE MEMORY “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” Galatians 5:22-24   FULL SHOW NOTES   SPONSORS T Bar M Camps in Texas is looking for college students who love Jesus and want to spend their summer making a difference in the lives of others. College students - make your summer matter! Go to tbarm.org/journeywomen to find out more info and apply today. Crossway released the ESV Illuminated Scripture Journals—great tools for those of you who like to take notes, record thoughts and prayers, or creatively engage with the text. Take a look at the ESV Illuminated Scripture Journals and many other ESV Bibles at Crossway.org/Journeywomen3. Audible keeps you informed, inspired, and entertained. Start listening with a 30-day Audible trial. Choose 1 audiobook and 2 Audible Originals absolutely free. Visit audible.com/journey or text JOURNEY to 500-500.   FOR MORE: Subscribe: iTunes | Android Follow Us: Instagram | Facebook Support the podcast by writing a review *Affiliate links used are used where appropriate. Thank you for supporting the products that support Journeywomen!

A Biblical Exposition of Mark 14:66-72 Peter Learns a Valuable Two-Part Lesson in the Courtyard 1. His compromise: Peter’s persistent denial (66-71) 2. His private lie (66-68) 3. His public lie (69-70a) 4. His formal lie (70b-71) 5. His comeback: Peter’s profound repentance (72)

Expository teaching of verses 1-12 of First Corinthians chapter 10. Dealing with individual faith, responsibility and the dangers of presumption and relying on signs. Support the show (http://www.livingwaterdothan.com/giving.html)

On today’s episode of the Journeywomen podcast, I’m chatting with Amy Gannett about why women need theology! We talked about everything from what theology is to how growing in it enhances our understanding of the gospel.   I can almost guarantee that y’all will want to be besties with Amy after you finish listening to our conversation! So you’ll know her a little better, Amy Gannett is a Bible teacher and writer with a passion for good theology and exegetical Bible study. She got her B.A. in Biblical Exposition and Biblical Studies from Moody Bible Institute and my Masters of Divinity from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. She teaches a digital Bible study through her website and creates theology training tools for kids through Tiny Theologians. Amy and her husband, Austin, are currently church planters in eastern North Carolina.   AMY’S RESOURCES BibleHub None Like Him by Jen Wilkin Liturgy of the Ordinary by Tish Harrison Warren   AMY’S SIMPLE JOYS Walking her golden retriever Sunday night traditions Baking sourdough   OTHER RESOURCES Tiny Theologians Amy Gannett’s Digital and Print Studies **Enjoy a free week trial of Amy’s digital study. No promo code required. Just sign up here!   DISCUSSION QUESTIONS How do you define theology? How does theology affect your daily life? What can you do to deepen your understanding of who God is? What are you going to do or implement as a result of what you’ve learned this week?     CONNECT WITH AMY Website Facebook Instagram Twitter   SPONSORSHIP DETAILS Super Chewer BarkBox is a monthly delivery of 6 new items that your super chewin' dog will love. Each box has a value of over $50, but you pay as little as $29/month! To get 50% off your first month of Super Chewer on a 6 or 12 month plan, visit superchewer.com/HUNTER and enter promo code HUNTER at checkout. Canvas People transforms your photos into beautiful, unique, museum-quality canvases that are easy to hang and make fabulous home décor. To get an 11x14 canvas, a $69.99 dollar value, for free, go to CanvasPeople.com and enter the promo code HUNTER at checkout. Everyplate is America’s Best Value Meal Kit. With Everyplate you can get meals you’ll enjoy and your bank account will love delivered right to your door. For 50% off your first box of EveryPlate, go to everyplate.com and enter code HUNTER at checkout.   FOR MORE EPISODES OF JOURNEYWOMEN:   SUBSCRIBE Subscribe on iOS, go to the iTunes page and subscribe to the Journeywomen Podcast. On Android, click this podcast RSS feed link and select your podcast app. You may need to copy the link into your favorite podcast app (like Overcast or Stitcher).   WRITE A REVIEW Writing a review on iTunes will help other women on their journeys to glorify God find and utilize the podcast as a resource.   FOLLOW JOURNEYWOMEN Like/follow Journeywomen on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter for the latest updates.   *Affiliate links used are used where appropriate. Thank you for supporting the products that support Journeywomen!

Biblical Exposition is God's primary way to build the church. We preach the scriptures because in them we find Christ!

Christ will not be treasured above all things apart from the faithful and clear proclamation of his Word.

Special Guest Speaker Dr. Mike Canham, Professor of Theology, Church History, and Biblical Exposition at The Cornerstone Seminary.Luke 23:39-43

Special Guest Speaker Dr. Mike Canham, Professor of Theology, Church History, and Biblical Exposition at The Cornerstone Seminary.Luke 23:39-43

2012 Fall Conference at Omaha Bible Church with Dr. R. Kent Hughes