Podcast appearances and mentions of thomas kurian

Thomas Kurian is the CEO of Google Cloud Platform. He joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss how AI is changing the competitive balance in cloud services and why he believes Google has a chance to win. We also discuss the various use cases Google customers are finding for GenAI in the technology's early days, and whether the agent buzz is real. Finally, towards the end of the conversation we touch on tariffs and their impact on the cloud services business. Tune in for a wide ranging conversation with Google's top guy on cloud computing.

Guest: George Kurian, CEO of NetAppFor almost 10 years, George Kurian has been CEO of the data infrastructure firm NetApp, overseeing its pivot to cloud services. After he  took the job — a surprise promotion dropped on him just days before it was announced — he had to learn on the job how the job could be.“ There are a lot more stakeholders that a CEO has to deal with than a chief product officer,” George says, referring to his previous role. “There's also a lot more external commitment ... It was a really all-consuming effort to get the company turned around.”He said the CEO job can be “fairly lonely” because you may want to be peers or friends with your team and your board — but in fact, they are sometimes your subordinates and your superiors, respectively.“ We wouldn't be here without others having contributed significantly on the journey,” George says. “[But] there are times when you have to step back and say, ‘I see a pattern that my team is not seeing,' or ‘Do I think that we can do a better job than we are doing?'”Chapters:(01:10) - Commuting to Sunnyvale (04:49) - Growing up in India (08:04) - Protect the child (09:33) - Raising kids in Silicon Valley (12:44) - Money motivation (15:04) - NetApp's renaissance (21:39) - Writing new chapters (23:15) - Culture shifts (26:38) - Coming to NetApp (29:41) - Surprise! You're the CEO (32:41) - Making sacrifices (35:04) - Work vs. family tension (37:18) - Doubt & lonely decisions (42:38) - The data wave (45:27) - Enterprise AI (51:36) - Starting your own company (53:33) - Navigating difficulty (56:28) - Who NetApp is hiring (57:11) - What “grit” means to George Mentioned in this episode: EMC, OpenAI, DeepSeek, CalTrain, the San Francisco 49ers, Princeton University, Subway, Vons, Thomas Kurian, Google Cloud, Stanford University, Brian Cox, Oliver Jay, the Quakers, Jay Chaudhry, zScaler, Manmohan Singh, Oracle, IBM, Sun, Amazon, Microsoft, Glean, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry, McKinsey, Akamai, Cisco, Gwen McDonald, and the San Francisco Friends School.Links:Connect with GeorgeLinkedInConnect with JoubinTwitterLinkedInEmail: grit@kleinerperkins.com Learn more about Kleiner PerkinsThis episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to PRESENT yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the WORD of TRUTH .

 Customer Mindset and Priorities in 2025 (01:47)The current climate of geopolitical and economic uncertainty is driving the need for speed and agility when delivering value to customers. Google Cloud customer projects that do just that include improving logistics at UPS, enhancing search functionality, and boosting customer service at Hanesbrands and Macy's. "Uncertainty means the great CEOs want action," Kurian says. "You control the controllable, and you do that by improving speed in your organization." Kurian also discusses significant AI integrations, such as Google Cloud's collaboration with Samsung on its phones and Snap's in-app coach, which are shaping the future of customer interaction.Cloud and AI as a Continuum (04:08)Kurian explains that cloud services actually simplify the deployment and management of AI because they provide models and accelerators as services, reducing the complexity of managing AI systems. In turn, AI helps to streamline cloud services by enabling faster and more efficient application development. Customer examples of how cloud and AI work together to deliver innovative offerings can be found in AI-driven risk calculations at Hiscox, tailored advertising for Puma and Radisson, and content discovery for Warner Brothers Discovery.AI's Impact on Business and Productivity (07:48)AI is no longer confined to IT departments but is now influencing a wide range of business functions. It's improving productivity by streamlining operations, such as facilitating live patient handoffs at hospitals. "Allowing the nurses to do live handoff to another nurse means more time at the bedside. It means more productivity."AI is also enhancing product development by enabling customers to articulate complex needs, which AI can then translate into tailored recommendations. Furthermore, AI's role in call center automation is improving efficiency by handling high volumes of customer inquiries and providing superior service.Customer Service and AI Integration (13:01)Google Cloud's approach to integrating AI with customer service helps businesses create more cohesive and efficient customer experiences by improving reach, understanding, and interactions across multiple channels. Kurian discusses innovations such as the self-service retail search at InterContinental Hotels and digital concierge services for Orange. AI agents manage customer queries, upsell products, and improve service efficiency in call centers.Cost Optimization and Efficiency in AI (15:52)There are several ways in which Google Cloud is addressing the challenges of AI tool affordability. Kurian outlines initiatives aimed at improving the efficiency of AI, such as new software capabilities and optimizations to AI models. In the last six months, Google Cloud has significantly reduced costs, with model costs dropping by more than 10 times. Additionally, improvements in latency and the reduction of AI response iterations are also helping to make AI more efficient and cost-effective.Customer Acknowledgment (18:46)In closing, Kurian expresses his gratitude to Google Cloud's customers, partners, and all those who have supported the company's journey. "To every customer, every partner, everyone who gave us a shot, you were the reason that all of our people worked so hard. Thank you."

En este episodio del Rodcast, Rodrigo Pacheco entrevista a Thomas Kurian, CEO de Google Cloud, quien comparte su perspectiva sobre el futuro de la tecnología y el impacto de la computación en la nube. Durante la conversación, Kurian destaca las innovaciones más recientes de Google Cloud, incluyendo avances en inteligencia artificial, análisis de datos y seguridad, y cómo estas herramientas están ayudando a las empresas a transformar sus operaciones. Un tema clave de este episodio es la reciente apertura de una nueva región de Google Cloud en México, específicamente en Querétaro. Kurian explica cómo esta expansión permitirá a las empresas mexicanas y de toda América Latina aprovechar una infraestructura más robusta y cercana, mejorando la eficiencia, la velocidad y la seguridad de los servicios en la nube. Esta nueva región es una pieza clave en la estrategia de Google para impulsar la adopción de la nube en la región, ayudando a las empresas a escalar más rápido y a estar mejor preparadas para la digitalización.

Google Cloud's Innovation and GrowthThe Big Themes:Google Cloud's record growth and market positioning: In 2024, Google Cloud experienced five consecutive quarters of accelerating growth, including a remarkable 35% growth in Q3, up from 29% in Q2. Kurian attributes this success to the company's ability to listen to customers, innovate with products that meet their evolving needs, and strategically invest in a strong go-to-market organization.AI cost reduction and efficiency: Kurian comments on Google Cloud's efforts to significantly reduce the cost of AI models. Through improved software stack capabilities and optimizations, Google has decreased the cost of AI by more than 10x in just six months. Reducing latency, improving response accuracy, and utilizing distillation (e.g., making models run on smaller devices like phones) have contributed to lowering operational costs while increasing model efficiency. This approach has resulted in a 15-17x growth in model usage in just five months.The evolving role of cloud in business transformation: Kurian notes a fundamental shift in how businesses view cloud computing. Initially seen as a way to reduce costs, cloud is now seen as a tool for driving business transformation. AI, analytics, and security capabilities are helping organizations speed up decision-making, optimize logistics, and gain competitive advantages. Kurian believes that the next wave of cloud adoption will focus more on enabling new business models, products, and markets rather than just reducing IT costs.The Big Quote: “We tend to look ahead by listening to customers and understanding their needs, and create in a disciplined way, new product offerings. If you look a the last five years, we've introduced enough steady cadence. First, we started with infrastructure, then we added databases to it. We used our strength with BigQuery to build out an analytics portfolio. We were one of the earliest to say . . . we should not only provide [customers] a secure cloud, but we should also build a security product portfolio. Every one of those has driven diversification of our revenue stream."

La ATDT iniciará funciones en enero | El CEO de Google Cloud, Thomas Kurian, visitará México; inauguraría región | Tras aprobarse su desaparición, el IFT advierte sobre los riesgos | Google sigue en la mira de reguladores por monopolio: ahora lo demandan en Canadá | Así lo dijo el director general para México de Eset, Luis Arturo Vázquez | Grupo Villacero es una de las historias innovadoras | Rosalinda Montemayor, CIO de Grupo Martí, nos da el IT Masters Insight

2 Corinthians 6:2 “Behold, now is the accepted TIME; behold, now is the day of SALVATION ”

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

In this Screaming in the Cloud Replay, we're revisiting our conversation with Miles War — perhaps the closest thing Google Cloud has to Corey Quinn. With a wit and sharpness at hand, and an entire backup retinue of trumpets, trombones, and various brass horns, Miles is here to join the conversation about what all is going on at Google Cloud. Miles breaks down SADA and their partnership with Google Cloud. He goes into some details on what GCP has been up to, and talks about the various areas they are capitulating forward. Miles talks about working with Thomas Kurian, who is the only who counts since he follows Corey on Twitter, and the various profundities that GCP has at hand.Show Highlights:(0:00) Intro(1:38) Sonrai Security sponsor read(2:40) Reliving Google Cloud Next 2021(7:24) Unlikable, yet necessary change at Google(11:41) Lack of Focus in the Cloud(18:03) Google releases benefitting developers(20:57) The rise of distributed databases(24:12) Backblaze sponsor read(24:41) Arguments for (and against) going multi-cloud(26:49) The problem with Google Cloud outages(33:01) Data transfer fees(37:49) Where you can find more from MilesAbout Miles WardAs Chief Technology Officer at SADA, Miles Ward leads SADA's cloud strategy and solutions capabilities. His remit includes delivering next-generation solutions to challenges in big data and analytics, application migration, infrastructure automation, and cost optimization; reinforcing our engineering culture; and engaging with customers on their most complex and ambitious plans around Google Cloud.Previously, Miles served as Director and Global Lead for Solutions at Google Cloud. He founded the Google Cloud's Solutions Architecture practice, launched hundreds of solutions, built Style-Detection and Hummus AI APIs, built CloudHero, designed the pricing and TCO calculators, and helped thousands of customers like Twitter who migrated the world's largest Hadoop cluster to public cloud and Audi USA who re-platformed to k8s before it was out of alpha, and helped Banco Itau design the intercloud architecture for the bank of the future.Before Google, Miles helped build the AWS Solutions Architecture team. He wrote the first AWS Well-Architected framework, proposed Trusted Advisor and the Snowmobile, invented GameDay, worked as a core part of the Obama for America 2012 “tech” team, helped NASA stream the Curiosity Mars Rover landing, and rebooted Skype in a pinch.Earning his Bachelor of Science in Rhetoric and Media Studies from Willamette University, Miles is a three-time technology startup entrepreneur who also plays a mean electric sousaphone.Links:SADA.com: https://sada.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/mileswardEmail: miles@sada.comOriginal episode:https://www.lastweekinaws.com/podcast/screaming-in-the-cloud/gcp-s-many-profundities-with-miles-ward/SponsorsSonrai Security: sonrai.co/access24Backblaze: backblaze.com 

I Peter 1:5-6 Who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials.

Guest: John Hanke, CEO of NianticWhen Pokémon Go launched, Niantic CEO John Hanke was enjoying a tranquil walk through a bamboo forest near Kyoto with his son. When he got back, it was all hands on deck: Building on a platform Niantic had developed for its previous game, Ingress, Pokémon Go was a runaway success story, earning $100 million dollars in revenue in its first week, and $1 billion in its first seven months. “I had a huge amount of anxiety that this is just too good to be true,” John recalls. “When are the wheels going to come off? What's going to go wrong?”In this episode, John and Joubin discuss San Francisco's history, Noam Bardin, Google Street View, David Lawee, AR glasses, Field Trip and Ingress, Tsunekazu Ishihara, gaming outside, Gilman Louie, Frank Slootman, mellowing out, Thomas Kurian, Jay Chaudhry, commute burnout, daily yoga, Xerox PARC, Mark Zuckerberg, Apple Vision Pro, the history of gaming, and talking to computers.Chapters:(02:17) - Waze and Google Maps (05:39) - John's childhood heroes (07:38) - Pokémon Go's first week (10:13) - Maps as a platform (13:56) - Spinning Niantic off of Google (17:36) - Hyperscaling (19:05) - Finding Niantic's mission (22:45) - Startups and families (24:15) - Adrenaline and gas (30:17) - Drive without desperation (34:42) - Negotiating with the Pokémon Company (38:25) - Zero to a million (41:28) - Relief and responsibility (43:44) - Sustaining engagement (47:18) - Enjoying the ride more (50:57) - Rules for balance (55:42) - Augmented reality and wearables (01:01:38) - Social games (01:04:14) - LLMs and the voice UI (01:06:52) - Who Niantic is hiring Links:Connect with JohnTwitterLinkedInConnect with JoubinTwitterLinkedInEmail: grit@kleinerperkins.com Learn more about Kleiner PerkinsThis episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

A new leg of the cloud wars has begun - one where access to the best AI models and tools is key. On the consumer side, Google's strategy remains uncertain. But on the enterprise side, Google can afford to go on the offensive, and that's happening in the cloud. CNBC's Deirdre Bosa sat down exclusively with Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian on competition, monetization, the partnership with Anthropic, and more.

In the first episode of Fund/Build/Scale, Mayfield Managing Partner Navin Chaddha spoke about the need for founders to identify investors they can trust, how to pitch Mayfield's AI Start seed fund, and why he's specifically looking for inception-stage entrepreneurs who have “half-baked” ideas. Our conversation covered a lot of ground: Navin described the elements of a fundable idea, shared what excites (and unnerves) him about AI investing, and offered a framework for founder teams seeking solutions to orthogonal problems that create value for customers and align with market trends. Here's an episode rundown: 1:07: AI investing and entrepreneurship 7:56: fundraising, enterprise opportunities and success metrics 17:27 the biggest challenges facing AI investors 19:11: what strong founder teams look like 22:10: leveraging inception-stage investors 26:47: why idea-stage founders shouldn't worry about revenue 31:36: pitfalls/opportunities at the enterprise level 34:25: the "impedance mismatch" between startups + enterprise customers 38:22: societal change + responsible innovation 42:48: how he educates himself about emerging tech Coming up in Episode 2: I spoke with Rodrigo Liang, CEO and co-founder of SambaNova, about digging a moat, customer discovery, and product-led growth. Please subscribe to Fund/Build/Scale on your favorite platform, and if you liked this episode, I hope you'll give me a great rating.  For now, you can find the Fund/Build/Scale newsletter on Substack. The podcast theme was written and performed by Michael Tritter and Carlos Chairez. Michael also edited the podcast and provided additional music, and I'm deeply grateful. Thanks for listening!   Links: Fund/Build/Scale on Substack: https://fundbuildscale.substack.com Mayfield: https://www.mayfield.com Navin Chaddha on LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/navinchaddha/ Securiti: https://securiti.ai/ Cognitive plumbing: https://www.mayfield.com/cognitive-plumbing/ Impedance matching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching Jensen Huang, founder and CEO, NVIDIA: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenhsunhuang/ Satya Nadella, chairman and CEO, Microsoft: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/ Thomas Kurian, CEO Google Cloud: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kurian-469b6219/ NVIDIA: https://www.nvidia.com  OpenAI: https://openai.com/ "Trough of disillusionment,” Gartner hype cycle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gartner_hype_cycle SambaNova Systems: https://sambanova.ai/ Podcast theme: "Artificio," by Michael Tritter and Carlos Chairez: https://laroda.bandcamp.com/track/artificio Fund/Build/Scale is sponsored by Mayfield Fund and Securiti.

This week on episode 341, we interviewed Thomas Kurian, CEO at Google Cloud, Bill Holstein & Michael G. McLaughlin, Co-authors of Battlefield Cyber: How China and Russia are Undermining Our Democracy and National Security. DisrupTV is a weekly podcast with hosts R “Ray” Wang and Vala Afshar. The show airs live at 11:00 a.m. PT/ 2:00 p.m. ET every Friday. Brought to you by Constellation Executive Network: constellationr.com/CEN.

Major averages closed higher again and every S&P sector was in the green. Vital Knowledge Founder Adam Crisafulli breaks down the market action. Earnings from HPE, HP and Box. Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian on Google's new AI tools for enterprise clients and custom chips. Generac CEO Aaron Jagdfeld on hurricane prep and residential demand. Globalstar CEO Paul Jacobs on his new job, working with Apple and competing with SpaceX. Our Kate Rooney on why bitcoin is rallying today.  

Averages closed near session highs with S&P 500 and Nasdaq in the green and Dow slightly negative. Axonic's Peter Cecchini and Vital Knowledge's Adam Crisafulli talk the market action and react to a raft of earnings including Robinhood, Unity Software and Beyond Meat. Dow component Disney fell after reporting earnings. Wolfe Research's Peter Supino broke down the negative investor reaction while former Amazon Studios head Matthew Ball talked long-term streaming strategy. Fresh from the stage at Google I/O conference, Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian talked the new AI tools GCP is offering and the intense cloud competition among big tech giants. Plus, Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson after his stock tumbled following weak guidance.

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Google invests $300mn in artificial intelligence start-up Anthropic | FT, published by

Another heathy dose of trans-atlantic carry on from the clown and the wolfman, chatting cooking your toastie in a bag, the curious case of Thomas Kurian, a private jet pilot, whiskey in a wolf's head, a twisted testicle, a human dartboard, secrets you've kept from your parents and we hear all of your sibling disputes. Make sure you subscribe and leave a 5 star review! If you'd like to share the times you've been a resourceful rascal, or want to get in touch, send an email to Hello@RestlessNativesPodcast.com

Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian joins us Inside the Strategy Room for a wide-ranging conversation where he discusses how he has grown Google's cloud business, how he manages innovation, and how he thinks about talent management. Thomas also shares insights on sustainability and the future of artificial intelligence and machine learning. This episode is an excerpt of a conversation Thomas and Adrian Booth, a senior partner in our Silicon Valley office, had at a recent gathering of global business leaders.  Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com  See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian joins us Inside the Strategy Room for a wide-ranging conversation where he discusses how he has grown Google's cloud business, how he manages innovation, and how he thinks about talent management. Thomas also shares insights on sustainability and the future of artificial intelligence and machine learning. This episode is an excerpt of a conversation Thomas and Adrian Booth, a senior partner in our Silicon Valley office, had at a recent gathering of global business leaders.  Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com  Join 90,000 other members of our LinkedIn community: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/mckinsey-strategy-&-corporate-finance/See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

About BrianBrian leads the Google Cloud Product and Industry Marketing team. This team is focused on accelerating the growth of Google Cloud by establishing thought leadership, increasing demand and usage, enabling their sales teams and partners to tell their product stories with excellence, and helping their customers be the best advocates for them.Before joining Google, Brian spent over 25 years in product marketing or engineering in different forms. He started his career at Microsoft and had a very non-traditional path for 20 years. Brian worked in every product division except for cloud. He did marketing, product management, and engineering roles. And, early on, he was the first speech writer for Steve Ballmer and worked on Bill Gates' speeches too. His last role was building up the Microsoft Surface business from scratch as VP of the hardware businesses. After Microsoft, Brian spent a year as CEO at a hardware startup called Doppler Labs, where they made a run at transforming hearing, and then spent two years as VP at Amazon Web Services leading product marketing, developer advocacy, and a bunch more marketing teams.Brian has three kids still at home, Barty, Noli, and Alder, who are all named after trees in different ways. His wife Edie and him met right at the beginning of their first year at Yale University, where Brian studied math, econ, and philosophy and was the captain of the Swim and Dive team his senior year. Edie has a PhD in forestry and runs a sustainability and forestry consulting firm she started, that is aptly named “Three Trees Consulting”. As a family they love the outdoors, tennis, running, and adventures in Brian's 1986 Volkswagen Van, which is his first and only car, that he can't bring himself to get rid of.Links Referenced: Google Cloud: https://cloud.google.com @isforat: https://twitter.com/IsForAt LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brhall/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is brought to us by our friends at Pinecone. They believe that all anyone really wants is to be understood, and that includes your users. AI models combined with the Pinecone vector database let your applications understand and act on what your users want… without making them spell it out. Make your search application find results by meaning instead of just keywords, your personalization system make picks based on relevance instead of just tags, and your security applications match threats by resemblance instead of just regular expressions. Pinecone provides the cloud infrastructure that makes this easy, fast, and scalable. Thanks to my friends at Pinecone for sponsoring this episode. Visit Pinecone.io to understand more.Corey: This episode is brought to you in part by our friends at Veeam. Do you care about backups? Of course you don't. Nobody cares about backups. Stop lying to yourselves! You care about restores, usually right after you didn't care enough about backups. If you're tired of the vulnerabilities, costs, and slow recoveries when using snapshots to restore your data, assuming you even have them at all living in AWS-land, there is an alternative for you. Check out Veeam, that's V-E-E-A-M for secure, zero-fuss AWS backup that won't leave you high and dry when it's time to restore. Stop taking chances with your data. Talk to Veeam. My thanks to them for sponsoring this ridiculous podcast.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Google Cloud and, as a part of that, they have given me someone to, basically, harass for the next half hour. Brian Hall is the VP of Product Marketing over at Google Cloud. Brian, welcome back.Brian: Hello, Corey. It's good to be here, and technically, we've given you time to harass me by speaking with me because you never don't have the time to harass me on Twitter and other places, and you're very good at it.Corey: Well, thank you. Again, we first met back when you were doing, effectively, the same role over at AWS. And before that, you spent only 20 years or so at Microsoft. So, you've now worked at all three of the large hyperscale cloud providers. You probably have some interesting perspectives on how the industry has evolved over that time. So, at the time of this recording, it is after Google Next and before re:Invent. There was also a Microsoft event there that I didn't pay much attention to. Where are we as a culture, as an industry, when it comes to cloud?Brian: Well, I'll start with it is amazing how early days it still is. I don't want to be put on my former Amazon cap too much, and I think it'd be pushing it a little bit to say it's complete and total day one with the cloud. But there's no question that there is a ton of evolution still to come. I mean, if you look at it, you can kind of break it into three eras so far. And roll with me here, and happy to take any dissent from you.But there was kind of a first era that was very much led by Amazon. We can call it the VM era or the component era, but being able to get compute on-demand, get nearly unlimited or actually unlimited storage with S3 was just remarkable. And it happened pretty quickly that startups, new tech companies, had to—like, it would be just wild to not start with AWS and actually start ordering servers and all that kind of stuff. And so, I look at that as kind of the first phase. And it was remarkable how long Amazon had a run really as the only player there. And maybe eight years ago—six years ago—we could argue on timeframes, things shifted a little bit because the enterprises, the big companies, and the governments finally realized, “Holy crow. This thing has gotten far enough that it's not just for these startups.”Corey: Yeah. There was a real change. There was an eye-opening moment there where it isn't just, “I want to go and sell things online.” It's, “And I also want to be a bank. Can we do that with you?” And, “Huh.”Brian: My SAP—like I don't know big that darn thing is going to get. Could I put it in your cloud? And, “Oh, by the way, CapEx forecasting stinks. Can you get me out of that?” And so, it became like the traditional IT infrastructure. All of the sudden, the IT guys showed up at the party, which I know is—it sounds fun to me, but that doesn't sound like the best addition to a party for many people. And so essentially, old-school IT infrastructure finally came to the cloud and Microsoft couldn't miss that happening when it did. But it was a major boon for AWS just because of the position that they had already.Corey: And even Google as well. All three of you now are pivoting in a lot of the messaging to talk to the big E enterprises out there. And I've noticed for the last few years, and I'm not entirely alone. When I go to re:Invent, and I look at announcements they're making, sure they have for the serverless stuff and how to run websites and EC2 nonsense. And then they're talking about IOT things and other things that just seem very oriented on a persona I don't understand. Everyone's doing stuff with mainframes now for example. And it feels like, “Oh, those of us who came here for the web services like it says on the name of the company aren't really feeling like it's for us anymore.” It's the problem of trying to be for everyone and pivoting to where the money is going, but Google's done this at least as much as anyone has in recent years. Are those of us who don't have corporate IT-like problems no longer the target market for folks or what's changed?Brian: It's still the target market, so like, you take the corporate IT, they're obviously still moving to the cloud. And there's a ton of opportunity. Just take existing IT spending and see a number over $1 trillion per year, and if you take the run rates of Microsoft, Amazon, Google Cloud, it's certainly over $100 billion, but that means it's still less than ten percent of what is existing IT spending. There are many people that think that existing IT spend number is significantly higher than that. But to your point on what's changing, there's actually a third wave that's happening.So, if the first wave was you start a company. You're a tech company, of course, you start it on AWS or on the Cloud. Second wave is all the IT people, IT departments, the central organizations that run technology for all the people that are not technology people come to the cloud. This third wave is everybody has to become a technology person. If you're a business leader, like you're at a fast-food restaurant and you're responsible for the franchisee relations, before, like, you needed to get an EDI system running or something, and so you told your IT department to figure out.Now, you have to actually think about what apps do we want to provide to our customers. How do I get the right data to my franchisees so that they can make business decisions? How can I automate all that? And you know, whereas before I was a guy wearing a suit or a gal wearing a suit who didn't need to know technology, I now have to. And that's what's changing the most. And it's why the Target Addressable Market—or the TAM as business folk sometimes say—it's really hard to estimate looking forward if every business is really needing to become a technology business in many ways. And it didn't dawn on me, honestly, and you can give me all the ribbing that I probably deserve for this—but it didn't really dawn on me until I came to Google and kept hearing the transformation word, “Digital transformation, digital transformation,” and honestly, having been in software for so long, I didn't really know what digital transformation meant until I started seeing all of these folks, like every company have to become a tech company effectively.Corey: Yeah. And it turns out there aren't enough technologists to go around, so it's very challenging to wind up getting the expertise in-house. It's natural to start looking at, “Well, how do we effectively outsource this?” And well, you can absolutely have a compression algorithm for experience. It's called, “Buying products and services and hiring people who have that experience already baked in either to the product or they show up knowing how to do something because they've done this before.”Brian: That's right. The thing I think we have to—for those of us that come from the technology side, this transformation is scary for the people who all of the sudden have to get tech and be like—Corey, if you or I—actually, you're very artistic, so maybe this wouldn't do it for you—but if I were told, “Hey, Brian, for your livelihood, you now need to incorporate painting,” like…Corey: [laugh]. I can't even write legibly let alone draw or paint. That is not my skill set. [laugh].Brian: I'd be like, “Wait, what? I'm not good at painting. I've never been a painting person, like I'm not creative.” “Okay. Great. Then we're going to fire you, or we're going to bring someone in who can.” Like, that'd be scary. And so, having more services, more people that can help as every company goes through a transition like that—and it's interesting, it's why during Covid, the cloud did really well, and some people kind of said, “Well, it's because they—people didn't want to send their people into their data centers.” No. That wasn't it. It was really because it just forced the change to digital. Like the person to, maybe, batter the analogy a little bit—the person who was previously responsible for all of the physical banks, which are—a bank has, you know, that are retail locations—the branches—they have those in order to service the retail customers.Corey: Yeah.Brian: That person, all of the sudden, had to figure out, “How do I do all that service via phone, via agents, via an app, via our website.” And that person, that entire organization, was forced digital in many ways. And that certainly had a lot of impact on the cloud, too.Corey: Yeah. I think that some wit observed a few years back that Covid has had more impact on your digital transformation than your last ten CIOs combined.Brian: Yeah.Corey: And—yeah, suddenly, you're forcing people into a position where there really is no other safe option. And some of that has unwound but not a lot of it. There's still seem to be those same structures and ability to do things from remote locations then there were before 2020.Brian: Yeah. Since you asked, kind of, where we are in the industry, to bring all of that to an endpoint, now what this means is people are looking for cloud providers, not just to have the primitives, not just to have the IT that they—their central IT needed, but they need people who can help them build the things that will help their business transform. It makes it a fun, new stage, new era, a transformation era for companies like Google to be able to say, “Hey, here's how we build things. Here's what we've learned over a period of time. Here's what we've most importantly learned from other customers, and we want to help be your strategic partner in that transformation.” And like I said, it'd be almost impossible to estimate what the TAM is for that. The real question is how quickly can we help customers and innovate in our Cloud solutions in order to make more of the stuff more powerful and faster to help people build.Corey: I want to say as well that—to be clear—you folks can buy my attention but not my opinion. I will not say things if I do not believe them. That's the way the world works here. But every time I use Google Cloud for something, I am taken aback yet again by the developer experience, how polished it is. And increasingly lately, it's not just that you're offering those low-lying primitives that composed together to build things higher up the stack, you're offering those things as well across a wide variety of different tooling options. And they just tend to all make sense and solve a need rather than requiring me to build it together myself from popsicle sticks.And I can't shake the feeling that that's where the industry is going. I'm going to want someone to sell me an app to do expense reports. I'm not going to want—well, I want a database and a front-end system, and how I wind up storing all the assets on the backend. No. I just want someone to give me something that solves that problem for me. That's what customers across the board are looking for as best I can see.Brian: Well, it certainly expands the number of customers that you can serve. I'll give you an example. We have an AI agent product called Call Center AI which allows you to either build a complete new call center solution, or more often it augments an existing call center platform. And we could sell that on an API call basis or a number of agent seats basis or anything like that. But that's not actually how call center leaders want to buy. Imagine we come in and say, “This many API calls or $4 per seat or per month,” or something like that. There's a whole bunch of work for that call center leader to go figure out, “Well, do I want to do this? Do I not? How should I evaluate it versus others?” It's quite complex. Whereas, if we come in and say, “Hey, we have a deal for you. We will guarantee higher customer satisfaction. We will guarantee higher agent retention. And we will save you money. And we will only charge you some percentage of the amount of money that you're saved.”Corey: It's a compelling pitch.Brian: Which is an easier one for a business decision-maker to decide to take?Corey: It's no contest. I will say it's a little odd that—one thing—since you brought it up, one thing that struck me as a bit strange about Contact Center AI, compared to most of the services I would consider to be Google Cloud, instead of, “Click here to get started,” it's, “Click here to get a demo. Reach out to contact us.” It feels—Brian: Yeah.Corey: —very much like the deals for these things are going to get signed on a golf course.Brian: [laugh]. They—I don't know about signed on a golf course. I do know that there is implementation work that needs to be done in order to build the models because it's the model for the AI, figuring out how your particular customers are served in your particular context that takes the work. And we need to bring in a partner or bring in our expertise to help build that out. But it sounds to me like you're looking to go golfing since you've looked into this situation.Corey: Just like painting, I'm no good at golfing either.Brian: [laugh].Corey: Honestly, it's—it just doesn't have the—the appeal isn't there for me for whatever reason. I smile; I nod; I tend to assume that, “Yeah, that's okay. I'll leave some areas for other people to go exploring in.”Brian: I see. I see.Corey: So, two weeks before Google Cloud Next occurred, you folks wound up canceling Stadia, which had been rumored for a while. People had been predicting it since it was first announced because, “Just wait. They're going to Google Reader it.” And yeah, it was consumer-side, and I do understand that that was not Cloud. But it did raise the specter of—for people to start talking once again about, “Oh, well, Google doesn't have any ability to focus on things long-term. They're going to turn off Cloud soon, too. So, we shouldn't be using it at all.” I do not agree with that assessment.But I want to get your take on it because I do have some challenges with the way that your products and services go to market in some ways. But I don't have the concern that you're going to turn it all off and decide, “Yeah, that was a fun experiment. We're done.” Not with Cloud, not at this point.Brian: Yeah. So, I'd start with at Google Cloud, it is our job to be a trusted enterprise platform. And I can't speak to before I was here. I can't speak to before Thomas Kurian, who's our CEO, was here before. But I can say that we are very, very focused on that. And deprecating products in a surprising way or in a way that doesn't take into account what customers are on it, how can we help those customers is certainly not going to help us do that. And so, we don't do that anymore.Stadia you brought up, and I wasn't part of starting Stadia. I wasn't part of ending Stadia. I honestly don't know anything about Stadia that any average tech-head might not know. But it is a different part of Google. And just like Amazon has deprecated plenty of services and devices and other things in their consumer world—and Microsoft has certainly deprecated many, many, many consumer and other products—like, that's a different model. And I won't say whether it's good, bad, or righteous, or not.But I can say at Google Cloud, we're doing a really good job right now. Can we get better? Of course. Always. We can get better at communicating, engaging customers in advance. But we now have a clean deprecation policy with a set of enterprise APIs that we commit to for stated periods of time. We also—like people should take a look. We're doing ten-year deals with companies like Deutsche Bank. And it's a sign that Google is here to last and Google Cloud in particular. It's also at a market level, just worth recognizing.We are a $27 billion run rate business now. And you earn trust in drips. You lose it in buckets. And we're—we recognize that we need to just keep every single day earning trust. And it's because we've been able to do that—it's part of the reason that we've gotten as large and as successful as we have—and when you get large and successful, you also tend to invest more and make it even more clear that we're going to continue on that path. And so, I'm glad that the market is seeing that we are enterprise-ready and can be trusted much, much more. But we're going to keep earning every single day.Corey: Yeah. I think it's pretty fair to say that you have definitely gotten yourselves into a place where you've done the things that I would've done if I wanted to shore up trust that the platform was not going to go away. Because these ten-year deals are with the kinds of companies that, shall we say, do not embark on signing contracts lightly. They very clearly, have asked you the difficult, pointed questions that I'm basically asking you now as cheap shots. And they ask it in very serious ways through multiple layers of attorneys. And if the answers aren't the right answers, they don't sign the contract. That is pretty clearly how the world works.The fact that companies are willing to move things like core trading systems over to you on a ten-year time horizon, tells me that I can observe whatever I want from the outside, but they have actual existential risk questions tied to what they're doing. And they are in some ways betting their future on your folks. You clearly know what those right answers are and how to articulate them. I think that's the side of things that the world does not get to see or think about very much. Because it is easy to point at all the consumer failings and the hundreds of messaging products that you continually replenish just in order to kill.Brian: [laugh].Corey: It's—like, what is it? The tree of liberty must be watered periodically from time to time, but the blood of patriots? Yeah. The logo of Google must be watered by the blood of canceled messaging products.Brian: Oh, come on. [laugh].Corey: Yeah. I'm going to be really scared if there's an actual, like, Pub/Sub service. I don't know. That counts as messaging, sort of. I don't know.Brian: [laugh]. Well, thank you. Thank you for the recognition of how far we've come in our trust from enterprises and trust from customers.Corey: I think it's the right path. There's also reputational issues, too. Because in the absence of new data, people don't tend to change their opinion on things very easily. And okay, there was a thing I was using. It got turned off. There was a big kerfuffle. That sticks in people's minds. But I've never seen an article about a Google service saying, “Oh, yeah. It hasn't been turned off or materially changed. In fact, it's gotten better with time. And it's just there working reliably.” You're either invisible, or you're getting yelled at.It feels like it's a microcosm of my early career stage of being a systems administrator. I'm either invisible or the mail system's broke, and everyone wants my head. I don't know what the right answer is—Brian: That was about right to me.Corey: —in this thing. Yeah. I don't know what the right answer on these things is, but you're definitely getting it right. I think the enterprise API endeavors that you've gone through over the past year or two are not broadly known. And frankly, you've definitely are ex-AWS because enterprise APIs is a terrible name for what these things are.Brian: [laugh].Corey: I'll let you explain it. Go ahead. And bonus points if you can do it without sounding like a press release. Take it away.Brian: There are a set of APIs that developers and companies should be able to know are going to be supported for the period of time that they need in order to run their applications and truly bet on them. And that's what we've done.Corey: Yeah. It's effectively a commitment that there will not be meaningful deprecations or changes to the API that are breaking changes without significant notice periods.Brian: Correct.Corey: And to be clear, that is exactly what all of the cloud providers have in their enterprise contracts. They're always notice periods around those things. There are always, at least, certain amounts of time and significant breach penalties in the event that, “Yeah, today, I decided that we were just not going to spin up VMs in that same way as we always have before. Sorry. Sucks to be you.” I don't see that happening on the Google Cloud side of the world very often, not like it once did. And again, we do want to talk about reputations.There are at least four services that I'm aware of that AWS has outright deprecated. One, Sumerian has said we're sunsetting the service in public. But on the other end of the spectrum, RDS on VMWare has been completely memory-holed. There's a blog post or two but nothing else remains in any of the AWS stuff, I'm sure, because that's an, “Enterprise-y” service, they wound up having one on one conversations with customers or there would have been a hue and cry. But every cloud provider does, in the fullness of time, turn some things off as they learn from their customers.Brian: Hmm. I hadn't heard anything about AWS Infinidash for a while either.Corey: No, no. It seems to be one of those great services that we made up on the internet one day for fun. And I love that just from a product marketing perspective. I mean, you know way more about that field than I do given that it's your job, and I'm just sitting here in this cheap seats throwing peanuts at you. But I love the idea of customers just come up and make up a product one day in your space and then the storytelling that immediately happens thereafter. Most companies would kill for something like that just because you would expect on some level to learn so much about how your reputation actually works. When there's a platonic ideal of a service that isn't bothered by pesky things like, “It has to exist,” what do people say about it? And how does that work?And I'm sort of surprised there wasn't more engagement from Amazon on that. It always seems like they're scared to say anything. Which brings me to a marketing question I have for you. You and Amazing have similar challenges—you being Google in this context, not you personally—in that your customers take themselves deadly seriously. And as a result, you have to take yourselves with at least that same level of seriousness. You can't go on Twitter and be the Wendy's Twitter account when you're dealing with enterprise buyers of cloud platforms. I'm kind of amazed, and I'd love to know. How can you manage to say anything at all? Because it just seems like you are so constrained, and there's no possible thing you can say that someone won't take issue with. And yes, some of the time, that someone is me.Brian: Well, let's start with going back to Infinidash a little bit. Yes, you identified one interesting thing about that episode, if I can call it an episode. The thing that I tell you though that didn't surprise me is it shows how much of cloud is actually learned from other people, not from the cloud provider itself. I—you're going to be going to re:Invent. You were at Google Cloud Next. Best thing about the industry conferences is not what the provider does. It's the other people that are there that you learn from. The folks that have done something that you've been trying to do and couldn't figure out how to do, and then they explained it to you, just the relationships that you get that help you understand what's going on in this industry that's changing so fast and has so much going on.And so,   And so, that part didn't surprise me. And that gets a little bit to the second part of your—that we're talking about. “How do you say anything?” As long as you're helping a customer say it. As long as you're helping someone who has been a fan of a product and has done interesting things with it say it, that's how you communicate for the most part, putting a megaphone in front of the people who already understand what's going on and helping their voice be heard, which is a lot more fun, honestly, than creating TV ads and banner ads and all of the stuff that a lot of consumer and traditional companies. We get to celebrate our customers and our creators much, much more.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Uptycs, because they believe that many of you are looking to bolster your security posture with CNAPP and XDR solutions. They offer both cloud and endpoint security in a single UI and data model. Listeners can get Uptycs for up to 1,000 assets through the end of 2023 (that is next year) for $1. But this offer is only available for a limited time on UptycsSecretMenu.com. That's U-P-T-Y-C-S Secret Menu dot com.Corey: I think that it's not super well understood by a lot of folks out there that the official documentation that any cloud provider puts out there is kind of a last resort. Or I'm looking for the specific flag to a specific parameter of a specific command. Great. Sure. But what I really want to do whenever I'm googling how to do something—and yes, that—we're going to be googling—welcome. You've successfully owned that space to the point where it's become common parlance. Good work is I want to see what other people had said. I want to find blog posts, ideally recent ones, talking about how to do the thing that I'm trying to do. If I'm trying to do something relatively not that hard or not that uncommon, if I spin up three web servers behind a load-balancer, and I can't find any community references on how to do that thing, either I'm trying to do something absolutely bizarre and I should re-think it, or there is no community/customer base for the product talking about how to do things with it.And I have noticed a borderline Cambrian explosion over the last few years of the Google Cloud community. I'm seeing folks who do not work at Google, and also who have never worked at Google, and sometimes still think they work at Google in some cases. It's not those folks. It is people who are just building things as a customer. And they, in turn, become very passionate advocates for the platform. And they start creating content on these things.Brian: Yeah. We've been blessed to have, not only, the customer base grow, but essentially the passion among that customer base, and we've certainly tried to help building community and catalyzing the community, but it's been fun to watch how our customers' success turns into our success which turns into customer success. And it's interesting, in particular, to see too how much of that passion comes from people seeing that there is another way to do things.It's clear that many people in our industry knew cloud through the lens of Amazon, knew tech in general through the lenses of Microsoft and Oracle and a lot of other companies. And Google, which we try and respect specifically what people are trying to accomplish and how they know how to do it, we also many ways have taken a more opinionated approach, if you will, to say, “Hey, here's how this could be done in a different way.” And when people find something that's unexpectedly different and also delightful, it's more likely that they're going to be strong advocates and share that passion with the world.Corey: It's a virtuous cycle that leads to the continued growth and success of a platform. Something I've been wondering about in the broader sense, is what happens after this? Because if, let's say for the sake of argument, that one of the major cloud providers decided, “Okay. You know, we're going to turn this stuff off. We've decided we don't really want to be in the cloud business.” It turns out that high-margin businesses that wind up turning into cash monsters as soon as you stop investing heavily in growing them, just kind of throw off so much that, “We don't know what to do with. And we're running out of spaces to store it. So, we're getting out of it.” I don't know how that would even be possible at some point. Because given the amount of time and energy some customers take to migrate in, it would be a decade-long project for them to migrate back out again.So, it feels on some level like on the scale of a human lifetime, that we will be seeing the large public cloud providers, in more or less their current form, for the rest of our lives. Is that hopelessly naïve? Am I missing—am I overestimating how little change happens in the sweep of a human lifetime in technology?Brian: Well, I've been in the tech industry for 27 years now. And I've just seen a continual moving up the stack. Where, you know, there are fundamental changes. I think the PC becoming widespread, fundamental change; mobile, certainly becoming primary computing experience—what I know you call a toilet computer, I call my mobile; that's certainly been a change. Cloud has certainly been a change. And so, there are step functions for sure. But in general, what has been happening is things just keep moving up the stack. And as things move up the stack, there are companies that evolve and learn to do that and provide more value and more value to new folks. Like I talked about how businesspeople are leaders in technology now in a way that they never were before. And you need to give them the value in a way that they can understand it, and they can consume it, and they can trust it. And it's going to continue to move in that direction.And so, what happens then as things move up the stack, the abstractions start happening. And so, there are companies that were just major players in the ‘90s, whether it's Novell or Sun Microsystems or—I was actually getting a tour of the Sunnyvale/Mountain View Google Campuses yesterday. And the tour guide said, “This used to be the site of a company that was called Silicon Graphics. They did something around, like, making things for Avatar.” I felt a little aged at that point.But my point is, there are these companies that were amazing in their time. They didn't move up the stack in a way that met the net set of needs. And it's not like that crater the industry or anything, it's just people were able to move off of it and move up. And I do think that's what we'll see happening.Corey: In some cases, it seems to slip below the waterline and become, effectively, plumbing, where everyone uses it, but no one knows who they are or what they do. The Tier 1 backbone providers these days tend to be in that bucket. Sure, some of them have other businesses, like Verizon. People know who Verizon is, but they're one of the major Tier 1 carriers in the United States just of the internet backbone.Brian: That's right. And that doesn't mean it's not still a great business.Corey: Yeah.Brian: It just means it's not front of mind for maybe the problems you're trying to solve or the opportunities we're trying to capture at that point in time.Corey: So, my last question for you goes circling back to Google Cloud Next. You folks announced an awful lot of things. And most of them, from my perspective, were actually pretty decent. What do you think is the most impactful announcement that you made that the industry largely overlooked?Brian: Most impactful that the industry—well, overlooked might be the wrong way to put this. But there's this really interesting thing happening in the cloud world right now where whereas before companies, kind of, chose their primary cloud writ large, today because multi-cloud is actually happening in the vast majority of companies have things in multiple places, people make—are making also the decision of, “What is going to be my strategic data provider?” And I don't mean data in the sense of the actual data and meta-data and the like, but my data cloud.Corey: Mm-hmm.Brian: How do I choose my data cloud specifically? And there's been this amazing profusion of new data companies that do better ETL or ELT, better data cleaning, better packaging for AI, new techniques for scaling up/scaling down at cost. A lot of really interesting stuff happening in the dataspace. But it's also created almost more silos. And so, the most important announcement that we made probably didn't seem like a really big announcement to a lot of people, but it really was about how we're connecting together more of our data cloud with BigQuery, with unstructured and structured data support, with support for data lakes, including new formats, including Iceberg and Delta and Hudi to come how—Looker is increasingly working with BigQuery in order to make it, so that if you put data into Google Cloud, you not only have these super first-class services that you can use, ranging from databases like Spanner to BigQuery to Looker to AI services, like Vertex AI, but it's also now supporting all these different formats so you can bring third-party applications into that one place. And so, at the big cloud events, it's a new service that is the biggest deal. For us, the biggest deal is how this data cloud is coming together in an open way to let you use the tool that you want to use, whether it's from Google or a third party, all by betting on Google's data cloud.Corey: I'm really impressed by how Google is rather clearly thinking about this from the perspective of the data has to be accessible by a bunch of different things, even though it may take wildly different forms. It is making the data more fluid in that it can go to where the customer needs it to be rather than expecting the customer to come to it where it lives. That, I think, is a trend that we have not seen before in this iteration of the tech industry.Brian: I think you got that—you picked that up very well. And to some degree, if you step back and look at it, it maybe shouldn't be that surprising that Google is adept at that. When you think of what Google search is, how YouTube is essentially another search engine producing videos that deliver on what you're asking for, how information is used with Google Maps, with Google Lens, how it is all about taking information and making it as universally accessible and helpful as possible. And if we can do that for the internet's information, why can't we help businesses do it for their business information? And that's a lot of where Google certainly has a unique approach with Google Cloud.Corey: I really want to thank you for being so generous with your time. If people want to learn more about what you're up to, where's the best place for them to find you?Brian: cloud.google.com for Google Cloud information of course. And if it's still running when this podcast goes, @isforat, I-S-F-O-R-A-T, on Twitter.Corey: And we will put links to both of those in the show notes. Thank you so much for you time. I appreciate it.Brian: Thank you, Corey. It's been good talking with you.Corey: Brian Hall, VP of Product Marketing at Google Cloud. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice. Whereas, if you've hated this podcast, please, leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an insulting angry comment dictating that, “No. Large companies make ten-year-long commitments casually all the time.”Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

“When I grew up in Bangalore, I'd never seen a computer,” says Thomas Kurian. The former president of Oracle, now the CEO of Google Cloud, remembers learning how to write while sitting outside his childhood home, and doing homework by candlelight during power blackouts. He credits his “trailblazer” mother, who instilled curiosity and discipline in all her children, with helping them understand the value of education beyond doing well on the next test. Something must have stuck, because Thomas is not the only Kurian in a major leadership position in Silicon Valley; his twin brother, George, is the CEO of NetApp. In this episode, Thomas and Joubin discuss how he accidentally got into computer programming, giving children the freedom to be curious, how to order a sandwich, leading 60 software acquisitions, knowing your own value-add, innovation through experimentation, investing in the future, and being competitor-aware and customer-obsessed.In this episode, we cover: Thomas' childhood in India (03:45) His twin brother George — the CEO of NetApp — and their trailblazing mother (07:40) Nostalgia for simpler times without responsibilities (14:03) Working up the ranks at Oracle, from product manager to president (21:40) The Google Cloud opportunity (30:12) How to succeed inside a huge organization (32:38) The big difference between Oracle and Google Cloud in 2019 (39:35) The “mother of God” opportunity of the cloud (42:35) The advice Thomas gives to other CEOs (48:25) Links: Connect with Thomas Twitter LinkedIn Connect with Joubin Twitter LinkedIn Email: grit@kleinerperkins.com  Learn more about Kleiner Perkins

673: In this interview, Thomas Kurian, Chief Executive Officer of Google Cloud, discusses the future ahead for cloud technology. He begins with an assessment of where we as a society are currently in the evolution of cloud computing and how Google's Cloud Platform differs from the rest of the players in the space. Thomas then describes Google's ambitious mission of training 40 million people on cloud technology, why it's important, and how Google plans on achieving it. Finally, Thomas looks ahead at the future of work and the role technology and collaboration tools will play in managing a hybrid workforce.

673: In this interview, Thomas Kurian, Chief Executive Officer of Google Cloud, discusses the future ahead for cloud technology. He begins with an assessment of where we as a society are currently in the evolution of cloud computing and how Google's Cloud Platform differs from the rest of the players in the space. Thomas then describes Google's ambitious mission of training 40 million people on cloud technology, why it's important, and how Google plans on achieving it. Finally, Thomas looks ahead at the future of work and the role technology and collaboration tools will play in managing a hybrid workforce.

About MilesAs Chief Technology Officer at SADA, Miles Ward leads SADA's cloud strategy and solutions capabilities. His remit includes delivering next-generation solutions to challenges in big data and analytics, application migration, infrastructure automation, and cost optimization; reinforcing our engineering culture; and engaging with customers on their most complex and ambitious plans around Google Cloud.Previously, Miles served as Director and Global Lead for Solutions at Google Cloud. He founded the Google Cloud's Solutions Architecture practice, launched hundreds of solutions, built Style-Detection and Hummus AI APIs, built CloudHero, designed the pricing and TCO calculators, and helped thousands of customers like Twitter who migrated the world's largest Hadoop cluster to public cloud and Audi USA who re-platformed to k8s before it was out of alpha, and helped Banco Itau design the intercloud architecture for the bank of the future.Before Google, Miles helped build the AWS Solutions Architecture team. He wrote the first AWS Well-Architected framework, proposed Trusted Advisor and the Snowmobile, invented GameDay, worked as a core part of the Obama for America 2012 “tech” team, helped NASA stream the Curiosity Mars Rover landing, and rebooted Skype in a pinch.Earning his Bachelor of Science in Rhetoric and Media Studies from Willamette University, Miles is a three-time technology startup entrepreneur who also plays a mean electric sousaphone.Links: SADA.com: https://sada.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/milesward Email: miles@sada.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: It seems like there is a new security breach every day. Are you confident that an old SSH key, or a shared admin account, isn't going to come back and bite you? If not, check out Teleport. Teleport is the easiest, most secure way to access all of your infrastructure. The open source Teleport Access Plane consolidates everything you need for secure access to your Linux and Windows servers—and I assure you there is no third option there. Kubernetes clusters, databases, and internal applications like AWS Management Console, Yankins, GitLab, Grafana, Jupyter Notebooks, and more. Teleport's unique approach is not only more secure, it also improves developer productivity. To learn more visit: goteleport.com. And not, that is not me telling you to go away, it is: goteleport.com.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Redis, the company behind the incredibly popular open source database that is not the bind DNS server. If you're tired of managing open source Redis on your own, or you're using one of the vanilla cloud caching services, these folks have you covered with the go to manage Redis service for global caching and primary database capabilities; Redis Enterprise. To learn more and deploy not only a cache but a single operational data platform for one Redis experience, visit redis.com/hero. Thats r-e-d-i-s.com/hero. And my thanks to my friends at Redis for sponsoring my ridiculous non-sense.  Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. I am joined today, once again by my friend and yours, Miles Ward, who's the CTO at SADA. However, he is, as I think of him, the closest thing the Google Cloud world has to Corey Quinn. Now, let's be clear, not the music and dancing part that is Forrest Brazeal, but Forrest works at Google Cloud, whereas Miles is a reasonably salty third-party. Miles, thank you for coming back and letting me subject you to that introduction.Miles: Corey, I appreciate that introduction. I am happy to provide substantial salt. It is easy, as I play brass instruments that produce my spit in high volumes. It's the most disgusting part of any possible introduction. For the folks in the audience, I am surrounded by a collection of giant sousaphones, tubas, trombones, baritones, marching baritones, trumpets, and pocket trumpets.So, Forrest threw down the gauntlet and was like, I can play a keyboard, and sing, and look cute at the same time. And so I decided to fail at all three. We put out a new song just a bit ago that's, like, us thanking all of our customers and partners, covering Kool & the Gang “Celebration,” and I neither look good, [laugh] play piano, or smiling, or [capturing 00:01:46] any of the notes; I just play the bass part, it's all I got to do.Corey: So, one thing that I didn't get to talk a lot about because it's not quite in my universe, for one, and for another, it is during the pre re:Invent—pre:Invent, my nonsense thing—run up, which is Google Cloud Next.Miles: Yes.Corey: And my gag a few years ago is that I'm not saying that Google is more interested in what they're building and what they're shipping, but even their conference is called Next. Buh dum, hiss.Miles: [laugh].Corey: So, I didn't really get to spend a lot of attention on the Google Cloud releases that came out this year, but given that SADA is in fact the, I believe, largest Google Cloud partner on the internet, and thus the world—Miles: [unintelligible 00:02:27] new year, three years in a row back, baby.Corey: Fantastic. I assume someone's watch got stuck or something. But good work. So, you have that bias in the way that I have a bias, which is your business is focused around Google Cloud the way that mine is focused on AWS, but neither of us is particularly beholden to that given company. I mean, you do have the not getting fired as partner, but that's a bit of a heavy lift; I don't think I can mouth off well enough to get you there.So, we have a position of relative independence. So, you were tracking Google Next, the same way that I track re:Invent. Well, not quite the same way I track re:Invent; there are some significant differences. What happened at Cloud Next 2021, that the worst of us should be paying attention to?Miles: Sure. I presented 10% of the material at the first re:Invent. There are 55 sessions; I did six. And so I have been at Cloud events for a really long time and really excited about Google's willingness to dive into demos in a way that I think they have been a little shy about. Kelsey Hightower is the kind of notable deep exception to that. Historically, he's been ready to dive into the, kind of, heavy hands-on piece but—Corey: Wait, those were demos? [Thought 00:03:39] was just playing Tetris on stage for the love of it.Miles: [laugh]. No. And he really codes all that stuff up, him and the whole team.Corey: Oh, absol—I'm sorry. If I ever grow up, I wish to be Kelsey Hightower.Miles: [laugh]. You and me both. So, he had kind of led the charge. We did a couple of fun little demos while I was there, but they've really gotten a lot further into that, and I think are doing a better job of packaging the benefits to not just developers, but also operators and data scientists and the broader roles in the cloud ecosystem from the new features that are being launched. And I think, different than the in-person events where there's 10, 20,000, 40,000 people in the audience paying attention, I think they have to work double-hard to capture attention and get engineers to tune in to what's being launched.But if you squint and look close, there are some, I think, very interesting trends that sit in the back of some of the very first launches in what I think are going to be whole veins of launches from Google over the course of the next several years that we are working really hard to track along with and make sure we're extracting maximum value from for our customers.Corey: So, what was it that they announced that is worth paying attention to? Now, through the cacophony of noise, one announcement that [I want to note 00:04:49] was tied to Next was the announcement that GME group, I believe, is going to be putting their futures exchange core trading systems on Google Cloud. At which point that to me—and I know people are going to yell at me, and I don't even slightly care—that is the last nail in the coffin of the idea that well, Google is going to turn this off in a couple years. Sorry, no. That is not a thing that's going to happen. Worst case, they might just stop investing it as aggressively as they are now, but even that would be just a clown-shoes move that I have a hard time envisioning.Miles: Yeah, you're talking now over a dozen, over ten year, over a billion-dollar commitments. So, you've got to just really, really hate your stock price if you're going to decide to vaporize that much shareholder value, right? I mean, we think that, in Google, stock price is a material fraction of the recognition of the growth trajectory for cloud, which is now basically just third place behind YouTube. And I think you can do the curve math, it's not like it's going to take long.Corey: Right. That requires effectively ejecting Thomas Kurian as the head of Google Cloud and replacing him with the former SVP of Bad Decisions at Yahoo.Miles: [laugh]. Sure. Google has no shyness about continuing to rotate leadership. I was there through three heads of Google Cloud, so I don't expect that Thomas will be the last although I think he may well go down in history as having been the best. The level of rotation to the focuses that I think are most critical, getting enterprise customers happy, successful, committed, building macroscale systems, in systems that are critical to the core of the business on GCP has grown at an incredible rate under his stewardship. So, I think he's doing a great job.Corey: He gets a lot of criticism—often from Googlers—when I wind up getting the real talk from them, which is, “Can you tell me what you really think?” Their answer is, “No,” I'm like, “Okay, next question. Can I go out and buy you eight beers and then”— and it's like, “Yeah.” And the answer that I get pretty commonly is that he's brought too much Oracle into Google. And okay, that sounds like a bad thing because, you know, Oracle, but let's be clear here, but what are you talking about specifically? And what they say distills down to engineers are no longer the end-all be-all of everything that Google Cloud. Engineers don't get to make sales decisions, or marketing decisions, or in some cases, product decisions. And that is not how Google has historically been run, and they don't like the change. I get it, but engineering is not the only hard thing in the world and it's not the only business area that builds value, let's be clear on this. So, I think that the things that they don't like are in fact, what Google absolutely needs.Miles: I think, one, the man is exceptionally intimidating and intentionally just hyper, hyper attentive to his business. So, one of my best employees, Brad [Svee 00:07:44], he worked together with me to lay out what was the book of our whole department, my team of 86 people there. What are we about? What do we do? And like I wanted this as like a memoriam to teach new hires as got brought in. So, this is, like, 38 pages of detail about our process, our hiring method, our promotional approach, all of it. I showed that to my new boss who had come in at the time, and he thought some of the pictures looked good. When we showed it to TK, he read every paragraph. I watched him highlight the paragraphs as he went through, and he read it twice as fast as I can read the thing. I think he does that to everybody's documents, everywhere. So, there's a level of just manual rigor that he's brought to the practice that was certainly not there before that. So, that alone, it can be intimidating for folks, but I think people that are high performance find that very attractive.Corey: Well, from my perspective, he is clearly head and shoulders above Adam Selipsky, and Scott Guthrie—the respective heads of AWS and Azure—for one key reason: He is the only one of those three people who follows me on Twitter. And—Miles: [laugh].Corey: —honestly, that is how I evaluate vendors.Miles: That's the thing. That's the only measure, yep. I've worked on for a long time with Selipsky, and I think that it will be interesting to see whether Adam's approach to capital allocation—where he really, I think, thinks of himself as the manager of thousands of startups, as opposed to a manager of a global business—whether that's a more efficient process for creating value for customers, then, where I think TK is absolutely trying to build a much more unified, much more singular platform. And a bunch of the launches really speak to that, right? So, one of the product announcements that I think is critical is this idea of the global distributed cloud, Google Distributed Cloud.We started with Kubernetes. And then you layer on to that, okay, we'll take care of Kubernetes for you; we call that Anthos. We'll build a bunch of structural controls and features into Anthos to make it so that you can really deal with stuff in a global way. Okay, what does that look like further? How do we get out into edge environments? Out into diverse hardware? How do we partner up with everybody to make sure that, kind of like comparing Apple's approach to Google's approach, you have an Android ecosystem of Kubernetes providers instead of just one place you can buy an outpost. That's generally the idea of GDC. I think that's a spot where you're going to watch Google actually leverage the muscle that it already built in understanding open-source dynamics and understanding collaboration between companies as opposed to feeling like it's got to be built here. We've got to sell it here. It's got to have our brand on it.Corey: I think that there's a stupendous and extreme story that is still unfolding over at Google Cloud. Now, re:Invent this year, they wound up talking all about how what they were rolling out was a focus on improving primitives. And they're right. I love their managed database service that they launched because it didn't exist.Miles: Yeah Werner's slide, “It's primitives, not frameworks.” I was like, I think customers want solutions, not frameworks or primitives. [laugh]. What's your plan?Corey: Yeah. However, I take a different perspective on all of this, which is that is a terrific spin on the big headline launches all missed the re:Invent timeline, and… oops, so now we're just going to talk about these other things instead. And that's great, but then they start talking about industrial IOT, and mainframe migrations, and the idea of private 5G, and running fleets of robots. And it's—Miles: Yeah, that's a cool product.Corey: Which one? I'm sorry, they're all very different things.Miles: Private 5G.Corey: Yeah, if someone someday will explain to me how it differs from Wavelength, but that's neither here nor there. You're right, they're all interesting, but none of them are actually doing the thing that I do, which is build websites, [unintelligible 00:11:31] looking for web services, it kind of says it in the name. And it feels like it's very much broadening into everything, and it's very difficult for me to identify—and if I have trouble that I guarantee you customers do—of, which services are for me and which are very much not? In some cases, the only answer to that is to check the pricing. I thought Kendra, their corporate information search thing was for me, then it's 7500 bucks a month to get started with that thing, and that is, “I can hire an internal corporate librarian to just go and hunt through our Google Drive.” Great.Miles: Yeah.Corey: So, there are—or our Dropbox, or our Slack. We have, like, five different information repositories, and this is how corporate nonsense starts, let me assure you.Miles: Yes. We call that luxury SaaS, you must enjoy your dozens of overlapping bills for, you know, what Workspace gives you as a single flat rate.Corey: Well, we have [unintelligible 00:12:22] a lot of this stuff, too. Google Drive is great, but we use Dropbox for holding anything that touches our customer's billing information, just because I—to be clear, I do not distrust Google, but it also seems a little weird to put the confidential billing information for one of their competitors on there to thing if a customer were to ask about it. So, it's the, like, I don't believe anyone's doing anything nefarious, but let's go ahead and just make sure, in this case.Miles: Go further man. Vimeo runs on GCP. You think YouTube doesn't want to look at Vimeo stats? Like they run everything on GCP, so they have to have arrived at a position of trust somehow. Oh, I know how it's called encryption. You've heard of encryption before? It's the best.Corey: Oh, yes. I love these rumors that crop up every now and again that Amazon is going to start scanning all of its customer content, somehow. It's first, do you have any idea how many compute resources that would take and to if they can actually do that and access something you're storing in there, against their attestations to the contrary, then that's your story because one of them just makes them look bad, the other one utterly destroys their entire business.Miles: Yeah.Corey: I think that that's the one that gets the better clicks. So no, they're not doing that.Miles: No, they're not doing that. Another product launch that I thought was super interesting that describes, let's call it second place—the third place will be the one where we get off into the technical deep end—but there's a whole set of coordinated work they're calling Cortex. So, let's imagine you go to a customer, they say, “I want to understand what's happening with my business.” You go, “Great.” So, you use SAP, right? So, you're a big corporate shop, and that's your infrastructure of choice. There are a bunch of different options at that layer.When you set up SAP, one of the advantages that something like that has is they have, kind of, pre-built configurations for roughly your business, but whatever behaviors SAP doesn't do, right, say, data warehousing, advanced analytics, regression and projection and stuff like that, maybe that's somewhat outside of the core wheelhouse for SAP, you would expect like, oh okay, I'll bolt on BigQuery. I'll build that stuff over there. We'll stream the data between the two. Yeah, I'm off to the races, but the BigQuery side of the house doesn't have this like bitching menu that says, “You're a retailer, and so you probably want to see these 75 KPIs, and you probably want to chew up your SKUs in exactly this way. And here's some presets that make it so that this is operable out of the box.”So, they are doing the three way combination: Consultancies plus ISVs plus Google products, and doing all the pre-work configuration to go out to a customer and go I know what you probably just want. Why don't I just give you the whole thing so that it does the stuff that you want? That I think—if that's the very first one, this little triangle between SAP, and Big Query, and a bunch of consultancies like mine, you have to imagine they go a lot further with that a lot faster, right? I mean, what does that look like when they do it with Epic, when they go do it with Go just generally, when they go do it with Apache? I've heard of that software, right? Like, there's no reason not to bundle up what the obvious choices are for a bunch of these combinations.Corey: The idea of moving up the stack and offering full on solutions, that's what customers actually want. “Well, here's a bunch of things you can do to wind up wiring together to build a solution,” is, “Cool. Then I'm going to go hire a company who's already done that is going to sell it to me at a significant markup because I just don't care.” I pay way more to WP Engine than I would to just run WordPress myself on top of AWS or Google Cloud. In fact, it is on Google Cloud, but okay.Miles: You and me both, man. WP Engine is the best. I—Corey: It's great because—Miles: You're welcome. I designed a bunch of the hosting on the back of that.Corey: Oh, yeah. But it's also the—I—well, it costs a little bit more that way. Yeah, but guess what's not—guess what's more expensive than that bill, is my time spent doing the care and feeding of this stuff. I like giving money to experts and making it their problem.Miles: Yeah. I heard it said best, Lego is an incredible business. I love their product, and you can build almost any toy with it. And they have not displaced all other plastic toy makers.Corey: Right.Miles: Some kids just want to buy a little car. [laugh].Corey: Oh, yeah, you can build anything you want out of Lego bricks, which are great, which absolutely explains why they are a reference AWS customer.Miles: Yeah, they're great. But they didn't beat all other toy companies worldwide, and eliminate the rest of that market because they had the better primitive, right? These other solutions are just as valuable, just as interesting, tend to have much bigger markets. Lego is not the largest toy manufacturer in the world. They are not in the top five of toy manufacturers in the world, right?Like, so chasing that thread, and getting all the way down into the spots where I think many of the cloud providers on their own, internally, had been very uncomfortable. Like, you got to go all the way to building this stuff that they need for that division, inside of that company, in that geo, in that industry? That's maybe, like, a little too far afield. I think Google has a natural advantage in its more partner-oriented approach to create these combinations that lower the cost to them and to customers to getting out of that solution quick.Corey: So, getting into the weeds of Google Next, I suppose, rather than a whole bunch of things that don't seem to apply to anyone except the four or five companies that really could use it, what things did Google release that make the lives of people building, you know, web apps better?Miles: This is the one. So, I'm at Amazon, hanging out as a part of the team that built up the infrastructure for the Obama campaign in 2012, and there are a bunch of Googlers there, and we are fighting with databases. We are fighting so hard, in fact, with RDS that I think we are the only ones that [Raju 00:17:51] has ever allowed to SSH into our RDS instances to screw with them.Corey: Until now, with the advent of RDS Custom, meaning that you can actually get in as root; where that hell that lands between RDS and EC2 is ridiculous. I just know that RDS can now run containers.Miles: Yeah. I know how many things we did in there that were good for us, and how many things we did in there that were bad for us. And I have to imagine, this is not a feature that they really ought to let everybody have, myself included. But I will say that what all of the Googlers that I talk to, you know, at the first blush, were I'm the evil Amazon guy in to, sort of, distract them and make them build a system that, you know, was very reliable and ended up winning an election was that they had a better database, and they had Spanner, and they didn't understand why this whole thing wasn't sitting on Spanner. So, we looked, and I read the white paper, and then I got all drooly, and I was like, yes, that is a much better database than everybody else's database, and I don't understand why everybody else isn't on it. Oh, there's that one reason, but you've heard of it: No other software works with it, anywhere in the world, right? It's utterly proprietary to Google. Yes, they were kind—Corey: Oh, you want to migrate it off somewhere else, or a fraction of it? Great. Step one, redo your data architecture.Miles: Yeah, take all of my software everywhere, rewrite every bit of it. And, oh all those commercial applications? Yeah, forget all those, you got, too. Right? It was very much where Google was eight years ago. So, for me, it was immensely meaningful to see the launch at Next where they described what they are building—and have now built; we have alpha access to it—a Postgres layer for Spanner.Corey: Is that effectively you have to treat it as Postgres at all times, or is it multimodal access?Miles: You can get in and tickle it like Spanner, if you want to tickle it like Spanner. And in reality, Spanner is ANSI SQL compliant; you're still writing SQL, you just don't have to talk to it like a REST endpoint, or a GRPC endpoint, or something; you can, you know, have like a—Corey: So, similar to Azure's Cosmos DB, on some level, except for the part where you can apparently look at other customers' data in that thing?Miles: [laugh]. Exactly. Yeah, you will not have a sweeping discovery of incredible security violations in the structure Spanner, in that it is the control system that Google uses to place every ad, and so it does not suck. You can't put a trillion-dollar business on top of a database and not have it be safe. That's kind of a thing.Corey: The thing that I find is the most interesting area of tech right now is there's been this rise of distributed databases. Yugabyte—or You-ji-byte—Pla-netScale—or PlanetScale, depending on how you pronounce these things.Miles: [laugh]. Yeah, why, why is G such an adversarial consonant? I don't understand why we've all gotten to this place.Corey: Oh, yeah. But at the same time, it's—so you take a look at all these—and they all are speaking Postgres; it is pretty clear that ‘Postgres-squeal' is the thing that is taking over the world as far as databases go. If I were building something from scratch that used—Miles: For folks in the back, that's PostgreSQL, for the rest of us, it's okay, it's going to be, all right.Corey: Same difference. But yeah, it's the thing that is eating the world. Although recently, I've got to say, MongoDB is absolutely stepping up in a bunch of really interesting ways.Miles: I mean, I think the 4.0 release, I'm the guy who wrote the MongoDB on AWS Best Practices white paper, and I would grab a lot of customer's and—Corey: They have to change it since then of, step one: Do not use DocumentDB; if you want to use Mongo, use Mongo.Miles: Yeah, that's right. No, there were a lot of customers I was on the phone with where Mongo had summarily vaporized their data, and I think they have made huge strides in structural reliability over the course of—you know, especially this 4.0 launch, but the last couple of years, for sure.Corey: And with all the people they've been hiring from AWS, it's one of those, “Well, we'll look at this now who's losing important things from production?”Miles: [laugh]. Right? So, maybe there's only actually five humans who know how to do operations, and we just sort of keep moving around these different companies.Corey: That's sort of my assumption on these things. But Postgres, for those who are not looking to depart from the relational model, is eating the world. And—Miles: There's this, like, basic emotional thing. My buddy Martin, who set up MySQL, and took it public, and then promptly got it gobbled up by the Oracle people, like, there was a bet there that said, hey, there's going to be a real open database, and then squish, like, the man came and got it. And so like, if you're going to be an independent, open-source software developer, I think you're probably not pushing your pull requests to our friends at Oracle, that seems weird. So instead, I think Postgres has gobbled up the best minds on that stuff.And it works. It's reliable, it's consistent, and it's functional in all these different, sort of, reapplications and subdivisions, right? I mean, you have to sort of squint real hard, but down there in the guts of Redshift, that's Postgres, right? Like, there's Postgres behind all sorts of stuff. So, as an interface layer, I'm not as interested about how it manages to be successful at bossing around hardware and getting people the zeros and ones that they ask for back in a timely manner.I'm interested in it as a compatibility standard, right? If I have software that says, “I need to have Postgres under here and then it all will work,” that creates this layer of interop that a bunch of other products can use. So, folks like PlanetScale, and Yugabyte can say, “No, no, no, it's cool. We talk Postgres; that'll make it so your application works right. You can bring a SQL alchemy and plug it into this, or whatever your interface layer looks like.”That's the spot where, if I can trade what is a fairly limited global distribution, global transactional management on literally ridiculously unlimited scalability and zero operations, I can handle the hard parts of running a database over to somebody else, but I get my layer, and my software talks to it, I think that's a huge step.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by my friends at Cloud Academy. Something special just for you folks. If you missed their offer on Black Friday or Cyber Monday or whatever day of the week doing sales it is—good news! They've opened up their Black Friday promotion for a very limited time. Same deal, $100 off a yearly plan, $249 a year for the highest quality cloud and tech skills content. Nobody else can get this because they have a assured me this not going to last for much longer. Go to CloudAcademy.com, hit the "start free trial" button on the homepage, and use the Promo code cloud at checkout. That's c-l-o-u-d, like loud, what I am, with a “C” in front of it. It's a free trial, so you'll get 7 days to try it out to make sure it's really a good fit for you, nothing to lose except your ignorance about cloud. My thanks again for sponsoring my ridiculous nonsense.Corey: I think that there's a strong movement toward building out on something like this. If it works, just because—well, I'm not multiregion today, but I can easily see a world in which I'd want to be. So, great. How do you approach the decision between—once this comes out of alpha; let's be clear. Let's turn this into something that actually ships, and no, Google that does not mean slapping a beta label on it for five years is the answer here; you actually have to stand behind this thing—but once it goes GA—Miles: GA is a good thing.Corey: Yeah. How do you decide between using that, or PlanetScale? Or Yugabyte?Miles: Or Cockroach or or SingleStore, right? I mean, there's a zillion of them that sit in this market. I think the core of the decision making for me is in every team you're looking at what skills do you bring to bear and what problem that you're off to go solve for customers? Do the nuances of these products make it easier to solve? So, I think there are some products that the nature of what you're building isn't all that dependent on one part of the application talking to another one, or an event happening someplace else mattering to an event over here. But some applications, that's, like, utterly critical, like, totally, totally necessary.So, we worked with a bunch of like Forex exchange trading desks that literally turn off 12 hours out of the day because they can only keep it consistent in one geographical location right near the main exchanges in New York. So, that's a place where I go, “Would you like to trade all day?” And they go, “Yes, but I can't because databases.” So, “Awesome. Let's call the folks on the Spanner side. They can solve that problem.”I go, “Would you like to trade all day and rewrite all your software?” And they go, “No.” And I go, “Oh, okay. What about trade all day, but not rewrite all your software?” There we go. Now, we've got a solution to that kind of problem.So like, we built this crazy game, like, totally other end of the ecosystem with the Dragon Ball Z people, hysterical; your like—you literally play like Rock, Paper, Scissors with your phone, and if you get a rock, I throw a fireball, and you get a paper, then I throw a punch, and we figure out who wins. But they can play these games like Europe versus Japan, thousands of people on each side, real-time, and it works.Corey: So, let's be clear, I have lobbied a consistent criticism at Google for a while now, which is the Google Cloud global control plane. So, you wind up with things like global service outages from time to time, you wind up with this thing is now broken for everyone everywhere. And that, for a lot of these use cases, is a problem. And I said that AWS's approach to regional isolation is the right way to do it. And I do stand by that assessment, except for the part where it turns out there's a lot of control plane stuff that winds up single tracking through us-east-1, as we learned in the great us-east-1 outage of 2021.Miles: Yeah, when I see customers move from data center to AWS, what they expect is a higher count of outages that lasts less time. That's the trade off, right? There's going to be more weird spurious stuff, and maybe—maybe—if they're lucky, that outage will be over there at some other region they're not using. I see almost exactly the same promise happening to folks that come from AWS—and in particular from Azure—over onto GCP, which is, there will be probably a higher frequency of outages at a per product level, right? So, like sometimes, like, some weird product takes a screw sideways, where there is structural interdependence between quite a few products—we actually published a whole internal structural map of like, you know, it turns out that Cloud SQL runs on top of GCE not on GKE, so you can expect if GKE goes sideways, Cloud SQL is probably not going to go sideways; the two aren't dependent on each other.Corey: You take the status page and Amazon FreeRTOS in a region is having an outage today or something like that. You're like, “Oh, no. That's terrible. First, let me go look up what the hell that is.” And I'm not using it? Absolutely not. Great. As hyperscalers, well, hyperscale, they're always things that are broken in different ways, in different locations, and if you had a truly accurate status page, it would all be red all the time, or varying shades of red, which is not helpful. So, I understand the challenge there, but very often, it's a partition that is you are not exposed to, or the way that you've architected things, ideally, means it doesn't really matter. And that is a good thing. So, raw outage counts don't solve that. I also maintain that if I were to run in a single region of AWS or even a single AZ, in all likelihood, I will have a significantly better uptime across the board than I would if I ran it myself. Because—Miles: Oh, for sure.Corey: —it is—Miles: For sure they're way better at ops than you are. Me, right?Corey: Of course.Miles: Right? Like, ridiculous.Corey: And they got that way, by learning. Like, I think in 2022, it is unlikely that there's going to be an outage in an AWS availability zone by someone tripping over a power cable, whereas I have actually done that. So, there's a—to be clear in a data center, not an AWS facility; that would not have flown. So, there is the better idea of of going in that direction. But the things like Route 53 is control plane single-tracking through the us-east-1, if you can't make DNS changes in an outage scenario, you may as well not have a DR plan, for most use cases.Miles: To be really clear, it was a part of the internal documentation on the AWS side that we would share with customers to be absolutely explicit with them. It's not just that there are mistakes and accidents which we try to limit to AZs, but no, go further, that we may intentionally cause outages to AZs if that's what allows us to keep broader service health higher, right? They are not just a blast radius because you, oops, pulled the pin on the grenade; they can actually intentionally step on the off button. And that's different than the way Google operates. They think of each of the AZs, and each of the regions, and the global system as an always-on, all the time environment, and they do not have systems where one gets, sort of, sacrificed for the benefit of the rest, right, or they will intentionally plan to take a system offline.There is no planned downtime in the SLA, where the SLAs from my friends at Amazon and Azure are explicit to, if they choose to, they decide to take it offline, they can. Now, that's—I don't know, I kind of want the contract that has the other thing where you don't get that.Corey: I don't know what the right answer is for a lot of these things. I think multi-cloud is dumb. I think that the idea of having this workload that you're going to seamlessly deploy to two providers in case of an outage, well guess what? The orchestration between those two providers is going to cause you more outages than you would take just sticking on one. And in most cases, unless you are able to have complete duplication of not just functionality but capacity between those two, congratulations, you've now just doubled your number of single points of failure, you made the problem actively worse and more expensive. Good job.Miles: I wrote an article about this, and I think it's important to differentiate between dumb and terrifyingly shockingly expensive, right? So, I have a bunch of customers who I would characterize as rich, as like, shockingly rich, as producing businesses that have 80-plus percent gross margins. And for them, the costs associated with this stuff are utterly rational, and they take on that work, and they are seeing benefits, or they wouldn't be doing it.Corey: Of course.Miles: So, I think their trajectory in technology—you know, this is a quote from a Google engineer—it's just like, “Oh, you want to see what the future looks like? Hang out with rich people.” I went into houses when I was a little kid that had whole-home automation. I couldn't afford them; my mom was cleaning house there, but now my house, I can use my phone to turn on the lights. Like—Corey: You know, unless us-east-1 is having a problem.Miles: Hey, and then no Roomba for you, right? Like utterly offline. So—Corey: Roomba has now failed to room.Miles: Conveniently, my lights are Philips Hue, and that's on Google, so that baby works. But it is definitely a spot where the barrier of entry and the level of complexity required is going down over time. And it is definitely a horrible choice for 99% of the companies that are out there right now. But next year, it'll be 98. And the year after that, it'll probably be 97. [laugh].And if I go inside of Amazon's data centers, there's not one manufacturer of hard drives, there's a bunch. So, that got so easy that now, of course you use more than one; you got to do—that's just like, sort of, a natural thing, right? These technologies, it'll move over time. We just aren't there yet for the vast, vast majority of workloads.Corey: I hope that in the future, this stuff becomes easier, but data transfer fees are going to continue to be a concern—Miles: Just—[makes explosion noise]—Corey: Oh, man—Miles: —like, right in the face.Corey: —especially with the Cambrian explosion of data because the data science folks have successfully convinced the entire industry that there's value in those mode balancer logs in 2012. Okay, great. We're never deleting anything again, but now you've got to replicate all of that stuff because no one has a decent handle on lifecycle management and won't for the foreseeable future. Great, to multiple providers so that you can work on these things? Like, that is incredibly expensive.Miles: Yeah. Cool tech, from this announcement at Next that I think is very applicable, and recognized the level of like, utter technical mastery—and security mastery to our earlier conversation—that something like this requires, the product is called BigQuery Omni, what Omni allows you to do is go into the Google Cloud Console, go to BigQuery, say I want to do analysis on this data that's in S3, or in Azure Blob Storage, Google will spin up an account on your behalf on Amazon and Azure, and run the compute there for you, bring the result back. So, just transfer the answers, not the raw data that you just scanned, and no work on your part, no management, no crapola. So, there's like—that's multi-cloud. If I've got—I can do a join between a bunch of rows that are in real BigQuery over on GCP side and rows that are over there in S3. The cross-eyedness of getting something like that to work is mind blowing.Corey: To give this a little more context, just because it gets difficult to reason about these things, I can either have data that is in a private subnet in AWS that traverses their horribly priced Managed NAT Gateways, and then goes out to the internet and sent there once, for the same cost as I could take that same data and store it in S3 in their standard tier for just shy of six full months. That's a little imbalanced, if we're being direct here. And then when you add in things like intelligent tiering and archive access classes, that becomes something that… there's no contest there. It's, if we're talking about things that are now approaching exabyte scale, that's one of those, “Yeah, do you want us to pay by a credit card?”—get serious. You can't at that scale anyway—“Invoice billing, or do we just, like, drive a dump truck full of gold bricks and drop them off in Seattle?”Miles: Sure. Same trajectory, on the multi-cloud thing. So, like a partner of ours, PacketFabric, you know, if you're a big, big company, you go out and you call Amazon and you buy 100 gigabit interconnect on—I think they call theirs Direct Connect, and then you hook that up to the Google one that's called Dedicated Interconnect. And voila, the price goes from twelve cents a gig down to two cents a gig; everybody's much happier. But Jesus, you pay the upfront for that, you got to set the thing up, it takes days to get deployed, and now you're culpable for the whole pipe if you don't use it up. Like, there are charges that are static over the course of the month.So, PacketFabric just buys one of those and lets you rent a slice of it you need. And I think they've got an incredible product. We're working with them on a whole bunch of different projects. But I also expect—like, there's no reason the cloud providers shouldn't be working hard to vend that kind of solution over time. If a hundred gigabit is where it is now, what does it look like when I get to ten gigabit? When I get to one gigabit? When I get to half gigabit? You know, utility price that for us so that we get to rational pricing.I think there's a bunch of baked-in business and cost logic that is a part of the pricing system, where egress is the source of all of the funding at Amazon for internal networking, right? I don't pay anything for the switches that connect to this machine to that machine, in region. It's not like those things are cheap or free; they have to be there. But the funding for that comes from egress. So, I think you're going to end up seeing a different model where you'll maybe have different approaches to egress pricing, but you'll be paying like an in-system networking fee.And I think folks will be surprised at how big that fee likely is because of the cost of the level of networking infrastructure that the providers deploy, right? I mean, like, I don't know, if you've gone and tried to buy a 40 port, 40 gig switch anytime recently. It's not like they're those little, you know, blue Netgear ones for 90 bucks.Corey: Exactly. It becomes this, [sigh] I don't know, I keep thinking that's not the right answer, but part of it also is like, well, you know, for things that I really need local and don't want to worry about if the internet's melting today, I kind of just want to get, like, some kind of Raspberry Pi shoved under my desk for some reason.Miles: Yeah. I think there is a lot where as more and more businesses bet bigger and bigger slices of the farm on this kind of thing, I think it's Jassy's line that you're, you know, the fat in the margin in your business is my opportunity. Like, there's a whole ecosystem of partners and competitors that are hunting all of those opportunities. I think that pressure can only be good for customers.Corey: Miles, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. If people want to learn more about you, what you're up to, your bad opinions, your ridiculous company, et cetera—Miles: [laugh].Corey: —where can they find you?Miles: Well, it's really easy to spell: SADA.com, S-A-D-A dot com. I'm Miles Ward, it's @milesward on Twitter; you don't have to do too hard of a math. It's miles@sada.com, if you want to send me an email. It's real straightforward. So, eager to reach out, happy to help. We've got a bunch of engineers that like helping people move from Amazon to GCP. So, let us know.Corey: Excellent. And we will, of course, put links to this in the [show notes 00:37:17] because that's how we roll.Miles: Yay.Corey: Thanks so much for being so generous with your time, and I look forward to seeing what comes out next year from these various cloud companies.Miles: Oh, I know some of them already, and they're good. Oh, they're super good.Corey: This is why I don't do predictions because like, the stuff that I know about, like, for example, I was I was aware of the Graviton 3 was coming—Miles: Sure.Corey: —and it turns out that if your—guess what's going to come up and you don't name Graviton 3, it's like, “Are you simple? Did you not see that one coming?” It's like—or if I don't know it's coming and I make that guess—which is not the hardest thing in the world—someone would think I knew and leaked. There's no benefit to doing predictions.Miles: No. It's very tough, very happy to do predictions in private, for customers. [laugh].Corey: Absolutely. Thanks again for your time. I appreciate it.Miles: Cheers.Corey: Myles Ward, CTO at SADA. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice and be very angry in your opinion when you write that obnoxious comment, but then it's going to get lost because it's using MySQL instead of Postgres.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Thomas Kurian joins LEVA Hotels as its new Hotel Manager, making his move from a Hotel & Hotel Apartments brand in Dubai #LevaHotels #levahotelmazayacentredubai #stayleva #ThomasKurian #HotelManager #hozpitality https://www.hozpitality.com/levahotel/read-article/leva-hotels-appoints-thomas-kurian-as-hotel-manager-6394.html

The Big Themes:• Every industry has gone through some profound changes: But when you shift online, there are significant challenges in understanding where do you position inventory?• There are breaches all the time: Because almost every cyber breach is like a black swan event. Before the breach, the organization thought it was secure.• Building large scale consumer services: We now want all our clients to be able to stand on our shoulders as we support them on what they're trying to do.• Look in the rear view mirror: Our goals are to help organizations. We truly believe the important challenges and our mission is to help clients with their most important challenges.The Big Quotes:“How do you broaden the nature of the products and services, as well as how do you broaden the reach of the financial market?”“But working with Ikea, we learned a lot from them on how to make such an experience possible.”“And so people will want to cherish some aspects of how they work with that along with obviously being in the office, ideating with their colleagues and working.”

About RichardHe's also an instructor at Pluralsight, a frequent public speaker, and the author of multiple books on software design and development. Richard maintains a regularly updated blog (seroter.com) on topics of architecture and solution design and can be found on Twitter as @rseroter. Links: Twitter: https://twitter.com/rseroter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seroter Seroter.com: https://seroter.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Vultr. Spelled V-U-L-T-R because they're all about helping save money, including on things like, you know, vowels. So, what they do is they are a cloud provider that provides surprisingly high performance cloud compute at a price that—while sure they claim its better than AWS pricing—and when they say that they mean it is less money. Sure, I don't dispute that but what I find interesting is that it's predictable. They tell you in advance on a monthly basis what it's going to going to cost. They have a bunch of advanced networking features. They have nineteen global locations and scale things elastically. Not to be confused with openly, because apparently elastic and open can mean the same thing sometimes. They have had over a million users. Deployments take less that sixty seconds across twelve pre-selected operating systems. Or, if you're one of those nutters like me, you can bring your own ISO and install basically any operating system you want. Starting with pricing as low as $2.50 a month for Vultr cloud compute they have plans for developers and businesses of all sizes, except maybe Amazon, who stubbornly insists on having something to scale all on their own. Try Vultr today for free by visiting: vultr.com/screaming, and you'll receive a $100 in credit. Thats v-u-l-t-r.com slash screaming.Corey: You know how git works right?Announcer: Sorta, kinda, not really Please ask someone else!Corey: Thats all of us. Git is how we build things, and Netlify is one of the best way I've found to build those things quickly for the web. Netlify's git based workflows mean you don't have to play slap and tickle with integrating arcane non-sense and web hooks, which are themselves about as well understood as git. Give them a try and see what folks ranging from my fake Twitter for pets startup, to global fortune 2000 companies are raving about. If you end up talking to them, because you don't have to, they get why self service is important—but if you do, be sure to tell them that I sent you and watch all of the blood drain from their faces instantly. You can find them in the AWS marketplace or at www.netlify.com. N-E-T-L-I-F-Y.comCorey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Once upon a time back in the days of VH1, which was like MTV except it played music videos, would have a show that was, “Where are they now?” Looking at former celebrities. I will not use the term washed up because that's going to be insulting to my guest.Richard Seroter is a returning guest here on Screaming in the Cloud. We spoke to him a year ago when he was brand new in his role at Google as director of outbound product management. At that point, he basically had stars in his eyes and was aspirational around everything he wanted to achieve. And now it's a year later and he has clearly failed because it's Google. So, outbound products are clearly the things that they are going to be deprecating, and in the past year, I am unaware of a single Google Cloud product that has been outright deprecated. Richard, thank you for joining me, and what do you have to say for yourself?Richard: Yeah, “Where are they now?” I feel like I'm the Leif Garrett of cloud here, joining you. So yes, I'm still here, I'm still alive. A little grayer after twelve months in, but happy to be here chatting cloud, chatting whatever else with you.Corey: I joke a little bit about, “Oh, Google winds up killing things.” And let's be clear, your consumer division which, you know, Google is prone to that. And understanding a company's org chart is a challenge. A year or two ago, I was of the opinion that I didn't need to know anything about Google Cloud because it would probably be deprecated before I really had to know about it. My opinion has evolved considerably based upon a number of things I'm seeing from Google.Let's be clear here, I'm not saying this to shine you on or anything like that; it's instead that I've seen some interesting things coming out of Google that I consider to be the right moves. One example of that is publicly signing multiple ten-year deals with very large, serious institutions like Deutsche Bank, and others. Okay, you don't generally sign contracts with companies of that scale and intend not to live up to them. You're hiring Forrest Brazeal as your head of content for Google Cloud, which is not something you should do lightly, and not something that is a short-term play in any respect. And the customer experience has continued to improve; Google Cloud products have not gotten worse, and I'm seeing in my own customer conversations that discussions about Google Cloud have become significantly less dismissive than they were over the past year. Please go ahead and claim credit for all of that.Richard: Yeah. I mean, the changes a year ago when I joined. So, Thomas Kurian has made a huge impact on some of that. You saw us launch the enterprise APIs thing a while back, which was, “Hey, here's, for the most part, every one of our products that has a fixed API. We're not going to deprecate it without a year's notice, whatever it is. We're not going to make certain types of changes.” Maybe that feels like, “Well, you should have had that before.” All right, all we can do is improve things moving forward. So, I think that was a good change.Corey: Oh, I agree. I think that was a great thing to do. You had something like 80-some-odd percent coverage of Google Cloud services, and great, that's going to only increase with time, I can imagine. But I got a little pushback from a few Googlers for not being more congratulatory towards them for doing this, and look, it's a great thing. Don't get me wrong, but you don't exactly get a whole lot of bonus points and kudos and positive press coverage—not that I'm press—for doing the thing you should have been doing [laugh] all along.It's, “This is great. This is necessary.” And it demonstrates a clear awareness that there was—rightly or wrongly—a perception issue around the platform's longevity and that you've gone significantly out of your way to wind up addressing that in ways that go far beyond just yelling at people on Twitter they don't understand the true philosophy of Google Cloud, which is the right thing to do.Richard: Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, look, the consumer side is very experimental in a lot of cases. I still mourn Google Reader. Like, those things don't matter—Corey: As do we all.Richard: Of course. So, I get that. Google Cloud—and of course we have the same cultural thing, but at the same time, there's a lifecycle management that's different in Google Cloud. We do not deprecate products that much. You know, enterprises make decade-long bets. I can't be swap—changing databases or just turning off messaging things. Instead, we're building a core set of things and making them better.So, I like the fact that we have a pretty stable portfolio that keeps getting a little bit bigger. Not crazy bigger; I like that we're not just throwing everything out there saying, “Rock on.” We have some opinions. But I think that's been a positive trend, customers seem to like that we're making these long-term bets. We're not going anywhere for a long time and our earnings quarter after quarter shows it—boy, this will actually be a profitable business pretty soon.Corey: Oh, yeah. People love to make hay, and by people, I stretch the term slightly and talk about, “Investment analysts say that Google Cloud is terrible because at your last annual report you're losing something like $5 billion a year on Google Cloud.” And everyone looked at me strangely, when I said, “No, this is terrific. What that means is that they're investing in the platform.” Because let's be clear, folks at Google tend to be intelligent, by and large, or at least intelligent enough that they're not going to start selling cloud services for less than it costs to run them.So yeah, it is clearly an investment in the platform and growth of it. The only way it should be turning a profit at this point is if there's no more room to invest that money back into growing the platform, given your market position. I think that's a terrific thing, and I'm not worried at all about it losing money. I don't think anyone should be.Richard: Yeah, I mean, strategically, look, this doesn't have to be the same type of moneymaker that even some other clouds have to be to their portfolio. Look, this is an important part, but you look at those ten-year deals that we've been signing: when you look at Univision, that's a YouTube partnership; you look at Ford that had to do with Android Auto; you look at these others, this is where us being also a consumer and enterprise SaaS company is interesting because this isn't just who's cranking out the best IaaS. I mean, that can be boring stuff over time. It's like, who's actually doing the stuff that maybe makes a traditional company more interesting because they partner on some of those SaaS services. So, those are the sorts of deals and those sorts of arrangements where cloud needs to be awesome, and successful, and make money, doesn't need to be the biggest revenue generator for Google.Corey: So, when we first started talking, you were newly minted as a director of outbound product management. And now, you are not the only one, there are apparently 60 of you there, and I'm no closer to understanding what the role encompasses. What is your remit? Where do you start? Where do you stop?Richard: Yeah, that's a good question. So, there's outbound product management teams, mostly associated with the portfolio area. So network, storage, AI, analytics, database, compute, application modernization-y sort of stuff—which is what I cover—containers, dev tools, serverless. Basically, I am helping make sure the market understands the product and the product understands the market. And not to be totally glib, but a lot of that is, we are amplification.I'm amplifying product out to market, analysts, field people, partners: “Do you understand this thing? Can I help you put this in context?” But then really importantly, I'm trying to help make sure we're also amplifying the market back to our product teams. You're getting real customer feedback: “Do you know what that analyst thinks? Have you heard what happened in the competitive space?”And so sometimes companies seem to miss that, and PMs poke their head up when I'm about to plan a product or I'm about to launch a product because I need some feedback. But keeping that constant pulse on the market, on customers, on what's going on, I think that can be a secret weapon. I'm not sure everybody does that.Corey: Spending as much time as I do on bills, admittedly AWS bills, but this is a pattern that tends to unfold across every provider I've seen. The keynotes are chock-full of awesome managed service announcements, things that are effectively turnkey at further up the stack levels, but the bills invariably look a lot more like, yeah, we spend a bit of money on that and then we run 10,000 virtual instances in a particular environment and we just treat it like it's an extension of our data center. And that's not exciting; that's not fun, quote-unquote, but it's absolutely what customers are doing and I'm not going to sit here and tell them that they're wrong for doing it. That is the hallmark of a terrible consultant of, “I don't understand why you're doing what you're doing, so it must be foolish.” How about you stop and gain some context into why customers do the things that they do?Richard: No, I send around a goofy newsletter every week to a thousand or two people, just on things I'm learning from the field, from customers, trying to make sure we're just thinking bigger. A couple of weeks ago, I wrote an idea about modernization is awesome, and I love when people upgrade their software. By the way, most people migration is a heck of a lot easier than if I can just get this into your cloud, yeah love that; that's not the most interesting thing, to move VMs around, but most people in their budget, don't have time to rewrite every Java app to go. Everybody's not changing .NET framework to .NET core.Like, who do I think everybody is? No, I just need to try to get some incremental value first. Yes, then hopefully I'll swap out my self-managed SQL database for a Spanner or a managed service. Of course, I want all of that, but this idea that I can turn my line of business loan processing app into a thousand functions overnight is goofy. So, how are we instead thinking more pragmatically about migration, and then modernizing some of it? But even that sort of mindset, look, Google thinks about innovation modernization first. So, also just trying to help us take a step back and go, “Gosh, what is the normal path? Well, it's a lot of migration first, some modernization, and then there's some steady-state work there.”Corey: One of the things that surprised me the most about Google Cloud in the market, across the board, has been the enthusiastic uptake for enterprise workloads. And by enterprise workloads, I'm talking about things like SAP HANA is doing a whole bunch of deployments there; we're talking Big Iron-style enterprise-y things that, let's be honest, countervene most of the philosophy that Google has always held and espoused publicly, at least on conference stages, about how software should be built. And I thought that would cut against them and make it very difficult for you folks to gain headway in that market and I could not have been more wrong. I'm talking to large enterprises who are enthusiastically talking about Google Cloud. I've got a level with you, compared to a year or two ago, I don't recognize the place.Richard: Mmm. I mean, some of that, honestly, in the conversations I have, and whatever I do a handful of customer calls every week, I think folks still want something familiar, but you're looking for maybe a further step on some of it. And that means, like, yes, is everybody going to offer VMs? Yeah, of course. Is everyone going to have MySQL? Obviously.But if I'm an enterprise and I'm doing these generational bets, can I cheat a little bit, and maybe if I partner with a more of an innovation partner versus maybe just the easy next step, am I buying some more relevance for the long-term? So, am I getting into environment that has some really cool native zero-trust stuff? Am I getting into environment with global backend services and I'm not just stitching together a bunch of regional stuff? How can I cheat by using a more innovation vendor versus just lifting and shifting to what feels like hosted software in another cloud? I'm seeing more of that because these migrations are tough; nobody should be just randomly switching clouds. That's insane.So, can I make, maybe, one of these big bets with somebody who feels like they might actually even improve my business as a whole because I can work with Google Pay and improve how I do mobile payments, or I could do something here with Android? Or, heck, all my developers are using Angular and Flutter; aren't I going to get some benefit from working with Google? So, we're seeing that, kind of, add-on effect of, “Maybe this is a place not just to host my VMs, but to take a generational leap.”Corey: And I think that you're positioning yourselves in a way to do it. Again, talk about things that you wouldn't have expected to come out of Google of all places, but your console experience has been first-rate and has been for a while. The developer experience is awesome; I don't need to learn the intricacies of 12 different services for what I'm trying to do just in order to get something basic up and running. I can stop all the random little billing things in my experimental project with a single click, which that admittedly has a confirm, which you kind of want. But it lets you reason about these things.It lets you get started building something, and there's a consistency and cohesiveness to the console that, again, I am not a graphic designer, by any stretch of the imagination. My most commonly used user interface is a green-screen shell prompt, and then I'm using Vim to wind up writing something horrifying, ideally in Python, but more often in YAML. And that has been my experience, but just clicking around the console, it's clear that there was significant thought put into the design, the user experience, and the way of approaching folks who are starting to look very different, from a user persona perspective.Richard: I can—I mean, I love our user research team; they're actually fun to hang out with and watch what they do, but you have to remember, Google as a company, I don't know, cloud is the first thing we had to sell. Did have to sell Gmail. I remember 15 years ago, people were waiting for invites. And who buys Maps or who buys YouTube? For the most part, we've had to build things that were naturally interesting and easy-to-use because otherwise, you would just switch to anything else because everything was free.So, some of that does infuse Google Cloud, “Let's just make this really easy to use. And let's just make sure that, maybe, you don't hate yourself when you're done jumping into a shell from the middle of the console.” It's like, that should be really easy to do—or upgrade a database, or make changes to things. So, I think some of the things we've learned from the consumer good side, have made their way to how we think of UX and design because maybe this stuff shouldn't be terrible.Corey: There's a trope going around, where I wound up talking about the next million cloud customers. And I'm going to have to write a sequel to it because it turns out that I've made a fundamental error, in that I've accepted the narrative that all of the large cloud vendors are pushing, to the point where I heard from so many folks I just accepted it unthinkingly and uncritically, and that's not what I should be doing. And we'll get to what I was wrong about in a minute, but the thinking goes that the next big growth area is large enterprises, specifically around corporate IT. And those are folks who are used to managing things in a GUI environment—which is fine—and clicking around in web apps. Now, it's easy to sit here on our high horse and say, “Oh, you should learn to write code,” or YAML, which is basically code. Cool.As an individual, I agree, someone should because as soon as they do that, they are now able to go out and take that skill to a more lucrative role. The company then has to backfill someone into the role that they just got promoted out of, and the company still has that dependency. And you cannot succeed in that market with a philosophy of, “Oh, you built something in the console. Now, throw it away and do it right.” Because that is maddening to that user persona. Rightfully so.I'm not that user persona and I find it maddening when I have to keep tripping over that particular thing. How did that come to be, from your perspective? First, do you think that is where the next million cloud customers come from? And have I adequately captured that user persona, or am I completely often the weeds somewhere?Richard: I mean, I shared your post internally when that one came out because that resonated with me of how we were thinking about it. Again, it's easy to think about the cloud-native operators, it's Spotify doing something amazing, or this team at Twitter doing something, or whatever. And it's not even to be disparaging. Like, look, I spent five years in enterprise IT and I was surrounded by operators who had to run dozen different systems; they weren't dedicated to just this thing or that. So, what are the tools that make my life easy?A lot of software just comes with UIs for quick install and upgrades, and how does that logic translate to this cloud world? I think that stuff does matter. How are you meeting these people a little better where they are? I think the hard part that we will always have in every cloud provider is—I think you've said this in different forums, but how do I not sometimes rub the data center on my cloud or vice versa? I also don't want to change the experience so much where I degrade it over the long term, I've actually somehow done something worse.So, can I meet those people where they are? Can we pull some of those experiences in, but not accidentally do something that kind of messes up the cloud experience? I mean, that's a fine line to walk. Does that make sense to you? Do you see where there's a… I don't know, you could accidentally cater to a certain audience too much, and change the experience for the worse?Corey: Yes, and no. My philosophy on it is that you have to meet customers where they are, but only to a point. At some point, what they're asking for becomes actively harmful or disadvantageous to wind up providing for them. “I want you to run my data center for me,” is on some level what some cloud environments look like, and I'm not going to sit here and tell people they're inherently wrong for that. Their big reason for moving to the cloud was because they keep screwing up replacing failed hard drives in their data center, so we're going to put it in the cloud.Is it more expensive that way? Well, sure in terms of actual cash outlay, it almost certainly is, but they're also not going down every month when a drive fails, so once the value of that? It's a capability story. That becomes interesting to me, and I think that trying to sit here in isolation, and say that, “Oh, this application is not how we would build it at Google.” And it's, “Yeah, you're Google. They are insert an entire universe of different industries that look nothing whatsoever like Google.” The constraints are different, the resources are different, and—Richard: Sure.Corey: —their approach to problem-solving are different. When you built out Google, and even when you're building out Google Cloud, look at some of the oldest craftiest stuff you have in your entire all of Google environment, and then remember that there are companies out there that are hundreds of years old. It's a different order of magnitude as far as era, as far as understanding of what's in the environment, and that's okay. It's a very broad and very diverse world.Richard: Yeah. I mean, that's, again, why I've been thinking more about migration than even some of the modernization piece. Should you bring your network architecture from on-prem to the cloud? I mean, I think most cases, no. But I understand sometimes that edge firewall, internal trust model you had on-prem, okay, trying to replicate that.So, yeah, like you say, I want to meet people where they are. Can we at least find some strategic leverage points to upgrade aspects of things as you get to a cloud, to save you from yourself in some places because all of a sudden, you have ten regions and you only had one data center before. So, many more rooms for mistakes. Where are the right guardrails? We're probably more opinionated than others at Google Cloud.I don't really apologize for that completely, but I understand. I mean, I think we've loosened up a lot more than maybe people [laugh] would have thought a few years ago, from being hyper-opinionated on how you run software.Corey: I will actually push back a bit on the idea that you should not replicate your on-premises data center in your cloud environment. Sure, are there more optimal ways to do it that are arguably more secure? Absolutely. But a common failure mode in moving from data center to cloud is, “All right, we're going to start embracing this entirely new cloud networking paradigm.” And it is confusing, and your team that knows how the data center network works really well are suddenly in way over their heads, and they're inadvertently exposing things they don't intend to or causing issues.The hard part is always people, not technology. So, when I glance at an environment and see things like that, perfect example, are there more optimal ways to do it? Oh, from a technology perspective, absolutely. How many engineers are working on that? What's their skill set? What's their position on all this? What else are they working on? Because you're never going to find a team of folks who are world-class experts in every cloud? It doesn't work that way.Richard: No doubt. No doubt, you're right. There's areas where we have to at least have something that's going to look similar, let you replicate aspects of it. I think it's—it'll just be interesting to watch, and I have enough conversations with customers who do ask, “Hey, where are the places we should make certain changes as we evolve?” And maybe they are tactical, and they're not going to be the big strategic redesign their entire thing. But it is good to see people not just trying to shovel everything from one place to the next.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by something new. Cloud Academy is a training platform built on two primary goals. Having the highest quality content in tech and cloud skills, and building a good community the is rich and full of IT and engineering professionals. You wouldn't think those things go together, but sometimes they do. Its both useful for individuals and large enterprises, but here's what makes it new. I don't use that term lightly. Cloud Academy invites you to showcase just how good your AWS skills are. For the next four weeks you'll have a chance to prove yourself. Compete in four unique lab challenges, where they'll be awarding more than $2000 in cash and prizes. I'm not kidding, first place is a thousand bucks. Pre-register for the first challenge now, one that I picked out myself on Amazon SNS image resizing, by visiting cloudacademy.com/corey. C-O-R-E-Y. That's cloudacademy.com/corey. We're gonna have some fun with this one!Corey: Now, to follow up on what I was saying earlier, what I think I've gotten wrong by accepting the industry talking points on is that the next million cloud customers are big enterprises moving from data centers into the cloud. There's money there, don't get me wrong, but there is a larger opportunity in empowering the creation of companies in your environment. And this is what certain large competitors of yours get very wrong, where it's we're going to launch a whole bunch of different services that you get to build yourself from popsicle sticks. Great. That is not useful.But companies that are trying to do interesting things, or people who want to found companies to do interesting things, want something that looks a lot more turnkey. If you are going to be building cloud offerings, that for example, are terrific building blocks for SaaS companies, then it behooves you to do actual investments, rather than just a generic credit offer, into spurring the creation of those types of companies. If you want to build a company that does payroll systems, in a SaaS, cloud way, “Partner with us. Do it here. We will give you a bunch of credits. We will introduce you to your first ten prospective customers.”And effectively actually invest in a company success, as opposed to pitch-deck invest, which is, “Yeah, we'll give you some discounting and some credits, and that's our quote-unquote, ‘investment.'” actually be there with them as a partner. And that's going to take years for folks to wrap their heads around, but I feel like that is the opportunity that is significantly larger, even than the embedded existing IT space because rather than fighting each other for slices of the pie, I'm much more interested in expanding that pie overall. One of my favorite questions to get asked because I think it is so profoundly missing the point is, “Do you think it's possible for Google to go from number three to number two,” or whatever the number happens to be at some point, and my honest, considered answer is, “Who gives a shit?” Because number three, or number five, or number twelve—it doesn't matter to me—is still how many hundreds of billions of dollars in the fullness of time. Let's be real for a minute here; the total addressable market is expanding faster than any cloud or clouds are going to be able to capture all of.Richard: Yeah. Hey, look, whoever who'll be more profitable solving user problems, I really don't care about the final revenue number. I can be the number one cloud tomorrow by making Google Cloud free. What's the point? That's not a sustainable business. So, if you're just going for who can deploy the most VCPUs or who can deploy the most whatever, there's ways to game that. I want to make sure we are just uniquely solving problems better than anybody else.Corey: Sorry, forgive me. I just sort of zoned out for a second there because I'm just so taken aback and shocked by the idea of someone working at a large cloud provider who expresses a philosophy that isn't lying awake at night fretting over the possibility of someone who isn't them as making money somewhere.Richard: [laugh]. I mean, your idea there, it'll be interesting to watch, kind of, the maker's approach of are you enabling that next round of startups, the next round of people who want to take—I mean, honestly, I like the things we're doing building block-wise, even with our AI: we're not just handing you a vision API, we're giving you a loan processing AI that can process certain types of docs, that more packaged version of AI. Same with healthcare, same with whatever. I can imagine certain startups or a company idea going, “Hey, maybe I could disrupt or serve a new market.”I always love what Square did. They've disrupted emerging markets, small merchants here in North America, wherever, where I didn't need a big expensive point of sale system. You just gave me the nice, right building blocks to disrupt and run my business. Maybe Google Cloud can continue to provide better building blocks, but I do like your idea of actually investment zones, getting part of this. Maybe the next million users are founders and it's not just getting into some of these companies with, frankly, 10, 20, 30,000 people in IT.I think there's still plenty of room in these big enterprises to unlock many more of those companies, much more of their business. But to your point, there's a giant market here that we're not all grabbing yet. For crying out loud, there's tons of opportunity out here. This is not zero-sum.Corey: Take it a step further beyond that, and today, if you have someone who's enterprising, early on in their career, maybe they just got out of school, maybe they have just left their job and are ready to snap, or they have some severance money that they want to throw into something. Great. What do they want to do if they have an idea for a company? Well today, that answer looks a lot like, well, time to go to a boot camp and learn to code for six months so you can build a badly done MVP well enough to get off the ground and get some outside investment, and then go from there. Well, what if we cut that part out entirely?What if there were building blocks of I don't need to know or care that there's a database behind it, or what a database looks like. Picture Visual Basic in a web browser for building apps, and just take this bit of information I give you and store it and give it back to me later. Sure, you're going to have some significant challenges in the architecture or something like that as it goes from this thing that I'm talking about as an MVP to something planet-scale—like a Spotify for example—but that's not most businesses, and that's okay. Get out of the way and let people innovate and iterate on what it is they're doing more rapidly, and make it more accessible to teach people. That becomes huge; that gets the infrastructure bits that cloud providers excel at out of the way, and all it really takes is packaging those things into a golden path of what a given company of a particular profile should be doing, if—unless they have reason to deviate from it—and instead of having this giant paradox of choice issue, it's, “Oh, okay, I'll drag-drop, build things accordingly.”And under the hood, it's doing all the configuration of services and that's great. But suddenly, you've made being a founder of a software company—fundamentally—accessible to people who are not themselves software engineers. And I know that's anathema to some people, and I don't even slightly care because I am done with gatekeeping.Richard: Yeah. No, it's exciting if that can pull off. I mean, it's not the years ago where, how much capital was required to find the rack and do all sorts of things with tech, and hire some developers. And it's an amazing time to be software creators, now. The more we can enable that—yeah, I'm along for that journey, sign me up.Corey: I'm looking forward to seeing how it winds up shaking out. So, I want to talk a little bit about the paradox of choice problem that I just mentioned. If you take a look at the various compute services that every cloud provider offers, there are an awful lot of different choices as far as what you can run. There's the VM model, there's containers—if you're in AWS, you have 17 ways to run those—and you wind up—any of the serverless function story, and other things here and there, and managed services, I mean and honestly, Google has a lot of them, nowhere near as many as you do failed messaging products, but still, an awful lot of compute options. How do customers decide?What is the decision criteria that you see? Because the worst answer you can give someone who doesn't really know what they're doing is, “It depends,” because people don't know how to make that decision. It's, “What factors should I consider then, while making that decision?” And the answer has to be something somewhat authoritative because otherwise, they're going to go on the internet and get yelled at by everyone because no one is ever going to agree on this, except that everyone else is wrong.Richard: Mm-hm. Yeah, I mean, on one hand, look, I like that we intentionally have fewer choices than others because I don't think you need 17 ways to run a container. I think that's excessive. I think more than five is probably excessive because as a customer, what is the trade-off? Now, I would argue first off, I don't care if you have a lot of options as a vendor, but boy, the backends of those better be consistent.Meaning if I have a CI/CD tool in my portfolio and it only writes to two of them, shame on me. Then I should make sure that at least CI/CD, identity management, log management, monitoring, arguably your compute runtime should be a late-binding choice. And maybe that's blasphemous because somebody says, “I want to start up front knowing it's a function,” or, “I want to start it's a VM.” How about, as a developer, I couldn't care less. How about I just build cool software and maybe even at deploy time, I say, “This better fits in running in Kubernetes.” “This is better in a virtual machine.”And my cost of changing that later is meaningless because, hey, if it is in the container, I can switch it between three or four different runtimes, the identity management the same, it logs the exact same way, I can deploy CI/CD the same way. So, first off, if those things aren't the same, then the vendor is messing up. So, the customer shouldn't have to pay the cost of that. And then there gets to be other actual criteria. Look, I think you are looking at the workload itself, the team who makes it, and the strategy to figure out the runtime.It's easy for us. Google Compute Engine for VMs, containers go in GKE, managed services that need some containers, there are some apps around them, are Cloud Functions and Cloud Run. Like, it's fairly straightforward and it's going to be an OR situation—or an AND situation not an OR, which is great. But we're at least saying the premium way to run containers in Google Cloud for systems is GKE. There you go. If you do have a bunch of managed services in your architecture and you're stitching them together, then you want more serverless things like Cloud Run and Cloud Functions. And if you want to just really move some existing workload, GCE is your best choice. I like that that's fairly straightforward. There's still going to be some it depends, but it feels better than nine ways to run Kubernetes engines.Corey: I'm sure we'll see them in the fullness of time.Richard: [laugh].Corey: So, talk about Anthos a bit. That was a thing that was announced a while back and it was extraordinarily unclear what it was. And then I looked at the pricing and it was $10,000 a month with a one-year minimum commitment, and is like, “Oh, it's not for me. That's why I don't get it.” And I haven't really looked back at it since. But it is something else now. It almost feels like a wrapper brand, in some respects. How's it going? [unintelligible 00:29:26]?Richard: Yeah. Consumption, we'll talk more upcoming months on some of the adoption, but we're finally getting the hockey stick, which always comes delayed with platforms because nobody adopts platforms quickly. They buy the platform and a year later they start to actually build new development, migrate the things they have. So, we're starting to see the sort of growth. But back to your first point. And I even think I poorly tried to explain it a year ago with you. Basically, look, Anthos is the ability to manage fleets of GKE clusters, wherever they are. I don't care if they're on-prem, I don't care if they're in Google Cloud, I don't care if they're Amazon. We have one customer who only uses Anthos on AWS. Awesome, rock on.So, how do I put GKE clusters everywhere, but then do fleet management because look, some people are doing an app per cluster. They don't want to jam 50 apps in the cluster from different teams because they don't like the idea that this app requires root access; now you can screw around with mine. Or, you didn't update; that broke the cluster. I don't want any of that. So, you're going to see companies more, doing even app per cluster, app per developer per cluster.So, now I have a fleet problem. How do I keep it in sync? How do I make sure policy is consistent? Those sorts of things. So, Anthos is kind of solving the fleet management challenge and replacing people's first-gen app platform.Seeing a lot of those use cases, “Hey, we're retiring our first version of Docker Enterprise, Mesos, Cloud Foundry, even OpenShift,” saying, “All right, now's the time for our next version of our app platform. How about GKE, plus Cloud Run on top of it, plus other stuff?” Sounds good. So, going well is a, sort of—as you mentioned, there's a brand story here, mainly because we've also done two things that probably matter to you. A, we changed the price a lot.No minimum commit, remarkably at 20% of the cost it was when we launched, on purpose because we've gotten better at this. So, much cheaper, no minimum commit, pay as you go. Be on-premises, on bare metal with GKE. Pay by the hour, I don't care; sounds great. So, you can do that sort of stuff.But then more importantly, if you're a GKE customer and you just want config management, service mesh, things like that, now you can buy all of those independently as well. And Anthos is really the brand for fleet management of GKE. And if you're on Google Cloud only, it adds value. If you're off Google Cloud, if you're multi-cloud, I don't care. But I want to manage fleets of compute clusters and create them. We're going to keep doubling down on that.Corey: The big problem historically for understanding a lot of the adoption paradigm of Kubernetes has been that it was, to some extent, a reimagining of how Google ran and built software internally. And I thought at the time, the idea was—from a cynical perspective—that, “All right, well, your crappy apps don't run well on Google-style infrastructure so we're going to teach the entire world how to write software the way that we do.” And then you end up with people running their blog on top of Kubernetes, where it's one of those, like, the first blog post is, like, “How I spent the last 18 months building Kubernetes.” And, okay, that is certainly a philosophy and an approach, but it's almost approaching Windows 95 launch level of hype, where people who didn't own computers were buying copies of it, on some level. And I see the term come up in conversations in places where it absolutely has no place being brought up. “How do I run a Kubernetes cluster inside of my laptop?” And, “It's what you got going on in there, buddy?”Richard: [laugh].Corey: “What do you think you're trying to do here because you just said something that means something that I think is radically different to me than it is to you.” And again, I'm not here to judge other people's workflows; they're all terrible, except for mine, which is an opinion held by everyone about their own workflow. But understanding where people are, figuring out how to get there, how to meet customers where they are and empower them. And despite how heavily Google has been into the Kubernetes universe since its inception, you're very welcoming to companies—and loud-mouth individuals on Twitter—who have no use for Kubernetes. And working through various products you offer, I don't ever feel like a second-class citizen. There's really something impressive about that, of not letting the hype dictate the product and marketing decisions of it.Richard: Yeah, look, I think I tweeted it recently, I think the future of software is managed services with containers in the gap, for the most part. Whereas—if you can use managed services, please do. Use them wherever you can. And if you have to sling some code, maybe put it in a really portable thing that's really easy to run in lots of places. So, I think that's smart.But for us, look, I think we have the best container workflow from dev tools, and build tools, and artifact registries, and runtimes, but plenty of people are running containers, and you shouldn't be running Kubernetes all over the place. That makes sense for the workload, I think it's better than a VM at the retail edge. Can I run a small cluster, instead of a weird point-of-sale Windows app? Maybe. Maybe it makes sense to have a lightweight Kubernetes cluster there for consistency purposes.So, for me, I think it's a great medium for a subset of software. Google Cloud is going to take whatever you got, which is great. I think containers are great, but at the same time, I'm happily going to let you deploy a function that responds to you adding a storage item to a bucket, where at the same time give you a SaaS service that replaces the need for any code. All of those are terrific. So yeah, we love Kubernetes. We think it's great. We're going to be the best version to run it. But that's not going to be your whole universe.Corey: No, and I would argue it absolutely shouldn't be.Richard: [laugh]. Right. Agreed. Now again, for some companies, it's a great replacement for this giant fleet of VMs that all runs at eight percent utilization. Can I stick this into a bunch of high-density clusters? Absolutely you should. You're going to save an absolute fortune doing that and probably pick up some resilience and functionality benefits.But to your point, “Do I want to run a WordPress site in there?” I don't know, probably not. “Do I need to run my own MySQL?” I'd prefer you not do that. So, in a lot of cases, don't use it unless you have to. That should go for all compute nowadays. Use managed services.Corey: I'm a big believer in going down that approach just because it is so much easier than trying to build it yourself from popsicle sticks because you theoretically might have to move it someday in the future, even though you're not.Richard: [laugh]. Right.Corey: And it lets me feel better about a thing that isn't going to be used by anything that I'm doing in the near future. I just don't pretend to get it.Richard: No, I don't install a general purpose electric charger in my garage for any electric car I may get in the future; I charge for the one I have now. I just want it to work for my car; I don't want to plan for some mythical future. So yeah, premature optimization over architecture, or death in IT, especially nowadays where speed matters, don't waste your time building something that can run in nine clouds.Corey: Richard, I want to thank you for coming on again a year later to suffer my slings, arrows, and other various implements of misfortune. If people want to learn more about what you're doing, how you're doing it, possibly to pull a Forrest Brazeal and go work with you, where can they find you?Richard: Yeah, we're a fun place to work. So, you can find me on Twitter at @rseroter—R-S-E-R-O-T-E-R—hang out on LinkedIn, annoy me on my blog seroter.com as I try to at least explore our tech from time to time and mess around with it. But this is a fun place to work. There's a lot of good stuff going on here, and if you work somewhere else, too, we can still be friends.Corey: Thank you so much for your time today. Richard Seroter, director of outbound product management at Google. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry comment into which you have somehow managed to shove a running container.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Workday and Google announced a multi-year strategic partnership that will allow Workday applications to run on Google's infrastructure. With both Workday and Google facing strong competition, this partnership and its joint go-to-market programs will create more sales and marketing channels that will help generate more opportunities and better position them to compete with the likes of Oracle, SAP, Microsoft, and AWS. In this podcast, Workday Practice Leader, Jeff Lazarto, discusses why this partnership makes sense (especially with Google Cloud under Thomas Kurian's leadership) and how customers could benefit from the mash up. Host: Jeff Lazarto: https://bit.ly/37eCXdN Workday Commercial Advisory Services: https://bit.ly/3fq96DV

സാത്താനെ തോൽപിക്കാൻ ഉള്ള വഴി - Br. Thomas Kurian

“The process of digitization – whether that was e-commerce in retail, or online gaming for media, online streaming in the media business, digital platforms for the public sector – was already underway. But it enormously accelerated with the pandemic.” In his two years as CEO of Google Cloud, Thomas Kurian has seen revenues for his company's services soar more than 40 percent. The Indian-born former president of Oracle believes that the “new normal” of telecommuting will continue to help drive future growth – as long as Google Cloud remembers its core values and who it serves. “Leadership during this time of transition,” he tells Mike, “a time of difficulty in many cases, has been not just about the tactics and the strategy, but also the purpose and the mission. And that has helped us unify our entire organization around this notion of supporting customers during this period of change for them. And we call that the notion of customer empathy.”

The Cloud Will Forever Change Businesses. For this episode of “Chambers Talks: A Podcast Series with John Chambers,” John talks with guest Thomas Kurian, CEO of Google Cloud, about how cloud is a critical enabler of digital transformation for companies across every industry, and how a customer centric-mindset can help companies succeed in the long run. 

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(https://stackoverflow.blog/2020/11/09/modern-ide-vs-vim-emacs/) Everything Apple Announced, From New Macs to New Chips (https://www.wired.com/story/everything-apple-announced-november-2020/) Average UX Improvements Are Shrinking (https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ux-gains-shrinking/) Relevant to your Interests Windows 10, iOS, Chrome, and many others fall at China's top hacking contest (https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-ios-chrome-and-many-others-fall-at-chinas-top-hacking-contest/) 375% Return on One Startup to Help SoftBank Get Past WeWork Woes (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-08/375-return-on-one-startup-to-help-softbank-get-past-wework-woes?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true) Google Cloud’s Big Win: the Remarkable 2-Year Journey of CEO Thomas Kurian (https://cloudwars.co/google-cloud/google-cloud-the-remarkable-2-year-journey-of-ceo-thomas-kurian/) Spotify acquires podcast monetization company Megaphone (https://www.axios.com/spotify-megaphone-monetization-podcasts-cc13b729-56f9-489a-bc94-d79b9f50a54c.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslogin&stream=top) Every last Slingbox will become a brick in two years (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/9/21557578/slingbox-discontinued-servers-sunset) Zoom and other ‘stay-at-home’ stocks got crushed on the positive vaccine news (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/zoom-and-other-stay-at-home-stocks-are-getting-crushed-on-the-positive-vaccine-news.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslogin&stream=top) TikTok says the Trump administration has forgotten about trying to ban it, would like to know what’s up (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/10/21559677/tiktok-cfius-court-petition-ban-deadline) EU charges Amazon in antitrust lawsuit, alleges unfair competition (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amazon-eu-antitrust-1.5796672) Austin software maker Planview sold in $1.6B deal (https://www.statesman.com/business/20201110/austin-software-maker-planview-sold-in-16b-deal) Nonsense Steve Nouri on LinkedIn: #datascience #business #strategy | 404 comments (https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-6727194101655191552-93Zn) Ugliest App (https://ugliest.app/) Raspberry Pi 400: the $70 desktop PC - Raspberry Pi (https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-400-the-70-desktop-pc/) Train caught by Whale (https://www.010fotograaf.nl/3445/metro-bungelt-op-8-meter-hoogte-na-ongeval-spijkenisse/) Why I Still Use an Old PowerPC Mac in 2020 (https://www.howtogeek.com/682300/why-i-still-use-an-old-powerpc-mac-in-2020/) Chipotle to open its first digital-only restaurant as online orders soar (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/chipotle-to-open-its-first-digital-only-restaurant-as-online-orders-soar.html) Sponsors Linode — Get started on Linode today with a $100 in free credit. Find all the details at linode.com/SDT. (http://go.thoughtleaders.io/2020020201026) Click on the “Create Free Account” button to get started. strongDM — Manage and audit remote access to infrastructure. Start your free 14-day trial today at: strongdm.com/SDT (http://strongdm.com/SDT) Conferences KubeCon + CloudNativeCon November 17 – 20 (https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-north-america/) OpenShift Commons Gathering November 17, 2020 (https://commons.openshift.org/gatherings/Kubecon_North_America_Virtual_OpenShift_Commons_Gathering_2020.html) SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/) and LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/). Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=8) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté’s book, (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. Become a sponsor of Software Defined Talk (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads)! Recommendations Matt: Things you can make from old dead laptops - DIY Perks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLP_L7Mgz6M) Brandon: The Queen’s Gambit (https://www.netflix.com/title/80234304) on Netflix Coté: Patagonia (https://eu.patagonia.com/nl/en/product/mens-torrentshell-3l-rain-pants-regular/85265.html) Men's Torrentshell (https://eu.patagonia.com/nl/en/product/mens-torrentshell-3l-rain-pants-regular/85265.html). Photo Credit (https://unsplash.com/photos/1nInzk7c0hg) Photo Credit (https://unsplash.com/photos/lY29OvoPm-A)

Google Cloud just kicked off their 9-week digital event series and made some important announcements in the keynote. Enterprises in particular should be aware of the key announcements (such as the launch of BigQuery Omni, Confidential VMs and industry-specific solutions) that will likely impact them as Google Cloud continues to focus on building and selling products that address the needs of enterprises. In this podcast, Practice Leader, Adam Mansfield, discusses how Google Cloud is ultimately looking to gain market share under the leadership of Robert Enslin and Thomas Kurian. He shares what he expects will be the focus of the messaging they will aggressively approach enterprises with and how Google Cloud will take Microsoft and Slack head on. He also covers what potential and current Google Cloud customers should strive for when establishing a relationship with Google Cloud in order to reap the most long-term value.

Google Cloud Next Predictions Your show hosts come to you with their cloudy crystal balls to give us Google Cloud Next Prediction show for Thomas Kurian’s keynote. Justin CloudSQL/Firebase/BigQuery via Anthos More Granularity in Stackdriver reports/analytics around status reports (Thanks /u/casper_man) Cloud endpoint Security Protection (Antivirus, Endpoint DLP, HIDS) Jonathan New Collaborations & Productivity tools Google Meet, New or Improved Price reduction (token for Anthos (Small cut pacify the haters) Thomas Kurian will speak about community governance (Peter) Matt GCP will launch a new region somewhere in the midwest Partnership with a pro-sports league.  Will announce their commitment to cloud infrastructure beyond 2023 Ryan Tout their amazing bigquery & ML stuff to help with Covid research A significant price reduction for Anthos drop it by more than 40% or removing 12 month commitment Layer 7 network inspection and egress filtering Honorable Mentions Endpoint Security will run in the hypervisor (Agentless) – Jonathan Tool Similar to Sagemaker Threat Hunting Tools ML/AI chops to Cloud Monitoring Configuration Management Endpoints Major Updates to Docs, Sheets, Slides,  Quantum Computers Tie Breaker: Number of Virtual Attendees on the Register?  Ryan – 45,000 Matt – 60,000 Jonathan- 85,000 Justin – 100,000

A fireside chat with Carolee Gearhart, VP of Worldwide Channel Sales and Global SMB Sales at Google Cloud, recorded at SADA’s 2020 All Hands Kickoff. In this special episode, hosted by Tony Safoian, Carolee shares with us her journey so far and her appointment to the new global role at Google Cloud focusing on Channel success. Carolee also describes Google’s mission to democratize data and how their strategy has shifted under Thomas Kurian’s leadership, as well as important discussion around diversity, inclusion and empowering women in the tech industry. Host: Tony Safoian Guest: Carolee Gearhart Connect on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/cloudnclear https://www.twitter.com/SADA https://www.twitter.com/Safoian https://twitter.com/CaroleeGearhart Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sada/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/safoian/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroleegearhart/   To learn more, visit SADA.com.

We're delighted to introduce a new monthly guest on Cloud Wars Live: Peter Steube, managing director of Enterprise Technology Research (ETR), will join us each month to discuss enterprise-IT buying trends among big-company CIOs and IT decision-makers around the world. ETR (www.etr.plus) has developed an extensive database of IT buying tendencies over the past 10 years, and tracks whether those buyers are likely to buy more, hold steady, or buy less from specific IT vendors. Peter's monthly sessions on Cloud Wars Live will come under the handle "Steube on Spending."In this episode: Peter Steube says ETR stands for Enterprise Technology Research. At the core of his business, he says, they’re data scientists. He says what ETR has been doing in that time period is building an active network, in which CIOs, CTOs, IT executives, and IT decision makers can do large-scale surveys. He says ETR also works on planned evaluations of emerging technology vendors.Peter says ETR’s primary audience are professional investors, specifically focused on late-stage, publicly-held enterprise tech companies. And he’s proud to say ETR works with some of the largest global hedge funds and mutual funds.He says in early 2020 they’re on pace for approximately 100 interviews with CIOs. They are fully recorded, transcribed, and housed in a searchable library on the platform.Peter says ETR has a formula down to two key metrics – the overall number of respondents, and the proprietary metric called the net score. The net score measures the overall health and trajectory of spend. He says contained in this research is 10 years of survey responses – and a lot of cool tools.Peter says with Thomas Kurian running things, the Google Cloud Platform could change quickly. He says they’re a likely alternative to AWS and Azure, and they seem to be taking a page from AWS’ book. I say to Peter, four or five days ago I saw an interview with Thomas Kurian in which he said, “We’re focused on executing our business plan – and we don’t get caught up in those things.”You can visit Peter at www.etr.plus, and you can participate in their surveys and receive access to their research. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

When Google announced that it was acquiring data analytics startup Looker for $2.6 billion, it was a big deal on a couple of levels. It was a lot of money and it represented the first large deal under the leadership of Thomas Kurian. Today, the company announced that deal has officially closed and Looker is part of the Google Cloud Platform.

Gary Danoff is one of those Googlers who comes from experience being in the partner's shoes! His perspective on what attributes the best partners have is a unique perspective. Public Sector is one of six verticals Google Cloud is really focused on, from a go-to-market standpoint. Why is that? And how has Public Sector now become one of the places that's experiencing some of the most innovation in the market? We also discuss what the appointment of Javier Soltery as the Vice President, G Suite (reporting directly to Thomas Kurian), means to our joint customers, and the signal it sends to the market. Host: Tony Safoian Guest: Gary Danoff Connect on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/cloudnclear https://www.twitter.com/SADA https://www.twitter.com/Safoian https://www.twitter.com/GDanoff Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sada/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/safoian/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/garydanoff/ To learn more, visit SADA.com.

“Sadin on Digital” episodes explore the fast-changing and high-stakes world of digital business. Wayne Sadin and I focus in particular on what CEOs and boards must do to lead their companies successfully into the Digital Age. Today, we explore how business leaders should hire CIOs. Because the industry is changing, and the role needs to change along with it.Episode 9In this episode, Wayne and I talk about how his Christmas present this year to his clients and potential clients is about what to think about next year. He says that all technology is not good technology – and it’s sometimes hard to tell the wheat from the chaff.He says there are too many things in the market called Fake Cloud. They sound like Cloud, they look like Cloud, but they just add to complexity and cost. And there’s a balloon payment due in the form of ransomware that holds your data for hostage.I tell him that this week Cloud Wars named Thomas Kurian the Cloud Wars CEO of the Year. Wayne says he put Google into the business of supplying Cloud to enterprises – and he says it’s a terrific choice for those of us that see Cloud as a place to put mature workloads.Wayne says everybody who has done a big ERP knows that if you’re not ready for a seven, eight, nine-figure investment, take a look at something else. He says technical debt comes in because clients don’t realize that every year they have to keep spending that. And by moving to SaaS, hyperscale Cloud, and modern ERP they can buy the product, pay their monthly fee, upgrade it maintain it – and not create technical debt.Wayne says blockchain is a solution in search of a problem. He says every problem that’s been brought to him he found a cheaper, simpler, easier way to solve it. Also, he says 5G will one day be a terrific product, but it’s just not ready yet. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This week: that best gadgets from the past ten years article, dreams of kubernetes on old hardware, and 451 Research’s acquisition. Ask us questions for the next episode with the tag #asksdt — recording next week. Mood board: #asksdt Remember the Law of Hammarabi. They’re not the Poynter institute or anything. Are we going to be blamed for all the problems? Kubernetes on the barby. It’s all the same broken stuff. Broken ankle con. I’ve never broken a bone. A bunch of old hardware, some Kubernetes, you got a stew going! The Carl Weathers Cluster. I’m really good at thinking while I talk. Just ignore the baby yoda. Relevant to your interests The 100 most important gadgets of the decade (https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/10/20997215/best-gadgets-decade-2010s-list-roundup-apple-iphone-tesla-amazon-samsung). Broken ankle conference. S&P Global Acquires 451 Research, LLC (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sp-global-acquires-451-research-llc-300970643.html). Ubuntu pro. Facebook sells off Oculus Medium to Adobe (http://axios.link/6xFK). Amazon blames Trump for losing $10 billion JEDI cloud contract to Microsoft (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/amazon-blames-trump-for-losing-jedi-cloud-contract.html). This podcaster wants to catch you up on the news on your ride home, no matter what you’re into (https://www.fastcompany.com/90440269/ride-home-media-tech-election-news-podcasts-celeb-news). Ring's Hidden Data Let Us Map Amazon's Sprawling Home Surveillance Network (https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/12/rings-hidden-data-let-us-map-amazons-sprawling-home-surveillance-network/). AWS is sick of waiting for your company to move to the cloud (https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/09/aws-is-sick-of-waiting-for-your-company-to-move-to-the-cloud/). Cloud Wars CEO of the Year 2019: Thomas Kurian of Google Cloud (https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-ceo-of-the-year-2019-thomas-kurian-google-cloud/). Amazon, Google, Microsoft: Here's Who Has the Greenest Cloud (https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-google-microsoft-green-clouds-and-hyperscale-data-centers/). Canonical announces Ubuntu Pro for Amazon Web Services (https://ubuntu.com/blog/canonical-announces-ubuntu-pro-for-amazon-web-services). Eclipse Foundation Warns Operators: Don’t Be a ‘Dumb Pipe’ for AWS (https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/news/eclipse-foundation-warns-operators-dont-be-a-dumb-pipe-for-aws/2019/12/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=sdxcentral). CNCF Cloud Native Interactive Landscape (https://landscape.cncf.io/). BPF: A New Type of Software (http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2019-12-02/bpf-a-new-type-of-software.html). Nonsense AI Hiring Algorithm (https://xkcd.com/2237/) The Apple TV remote is so bad that a Swiss TV company developed a normal replacement (https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/12/9/21002605/apple-tv-remote-salt-swiss-tv-company-replacement-buttons-normal) Air France-KLM Group steps up cooperation with Qantas Group (https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/air-france-klm-group-steps-cooperation-qantas-group) Sponsors SolarWinds: This episode is sponsored by SolarWinds and one of their APM tools – Loggly. To try it FREE for 14 days, just go to http://loggly.com/sdt. Arrested DevOps Podcast: Subscribe today by searching for “Arrested DevOps” in you favorite podcast app or by visiting (https://www.arresteddevops.com/)https://www.arresteddevops.com/ (https://www.arresteddevops.com/). Conferences, et. al. NO-SSH-JJ wants you go to DeliveryConf (https://www.deliveryconf.com/) in Seattle on Jan 21st & 22nd (https://www.deliveryconf.com/), Use promo code: SDT10 to get 10% off. JJ wants you to read about Delivery Conf Format too (https://www.deliveryconf.com/format). June 1-4: ChefConf 2020 (https://chefconf.chef.io/) Jordi wants you to go to GitLab Commit (https://about.gitlab.com/events/commit/) Jan. 14th SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) Listen to the Software Defined Interviews Podcast (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/). Check out the back catalog (http://cote.coffee/howtotech/). Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=8) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté’s book, (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. Book Giveaway We’re giving away one digital copy of Righting Software (http://www.informit.com/store/righting-software-9780136524038). The first person that DM’s @bwhichard (https://twitter.com/bwhichard) on Twitter or in the SDT Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack) gets a copy. Recommendations Matt: On the Metal (https://oxide.computer/blog/categories/on-the-metal/) podcast; How Buildings Learn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEqfg2sIH0). Brandon: General Magic the Movie (https://www.generalmagicthemovie.com/). Coté: The Mandalorian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mandalorian). Outro: “Tooth Fairy Crunch!,” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5embxVXocY&list=PLtsdgl5EjTaPZkxc15Biep5OvVxRI1YW8&index=15&t=1m43s) Teen Titans. Cover art from yusseyhan (https://pixabay.com/photos/casserole-stew-crock-hot-pot-2386835/).

Thomas Kurian has been CEO of Google Cloud just one year, and in that time he has transformed the organization.Thomas says Google started the year by focusing on changing to organization to be more customer-centric, and enabling the customer journey. He goes on to say if you’re talking to a financial institution, are there better solutions to do fraud detection, anti-money laundering? If you talk to logistics and manufacturing companies, how can I optimize the location of my fleet? How can I save money doing that better? How can I do scheduling better?He says everybody wants to create that magic moment with a customer.Thomas says there’s a scarcity of talent in AI and machine learning – at least people that do it well. He says Google’s approach has been to create a solution that helps people fundamentally improve the experience that their consumers have when they call the contact center – without having an army of people and expertise themselves. He says Google wants to enable organizations to be bold and brave – and don’t feel afraid of embracing technology.Thomas says there are different kinds of partners that customers have needs for – not just distributors and resellers, but system integrators, solution partners, and managed services companies. And he says they’ve really been pleased with the growth in the partner community.Thomas says Google has had customers tell us, “Hey, I've been told it'll take me 10 years to re-optimize my supply chain infrastructure – and what you guys delivered for me in four months is improving my inventory turns and my supply chain efficiency by 10 times.”Finally, Thomas compares this to running a marathon. He says there’s a great runner called Eliud Kipchoge who ran a marathon in two hours – something that people never thought possible. He says you have to be patient, but you have to have a sense of urgency – and the people who work at Google do both. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Ben Howard has been in the Google ecosystem in various capacities for 6 years, and has a 360-degree perspective few people do: first at BetterCloud as an ISV, then within a Google Cloud consultancy, and now with Google running partner sales strategies and go to market. What is the value proposition partners need to bring to customers, and to Google Cloud in Corporate, Enterprise, and Select customers? Tune in to hear what changes he's seen in the past 6 years, specifically in the Thomas Kurian era, and how the vertical strategy is the next evolution and maturity in Google Cloud GTM motion. Host: Tony Safoian Guest: Ben Howard Connect on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/cloudnclear https://www.twitter.com/SADA https://www.twitter.com/Safoian Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sada/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/safoian/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-howard-55584b54/ To learn more, visit SADA.com.

Google Cloud CEO, Thomas Kurian, recently stated they want to be the easiest cloud provider to do business with. Amongst a number efforts to achieve this distinction, they will introduce easier pricing and easier contracting. In this podcast, Adam Mansfield discusses why this is a smart approach and how it would differentiate Google from rival cloud vendors like Microsoft, Amazon and even Salesforce if it's successful.

Google Stadia details are revealed, Amazon shows off its delivery drone and Uber debuts Uber Copter, Facebook is going to do an official white paper for its cryptocurrency, and our mobile gadgets have finally dethroned the television. Sponsors: Tiny.website Pantheon.io/ride Links: GOOGLE’S STADIA GAME SERVICE IS OFFICIALLY COMING NOVEMBER: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW (The Verge) Google cloud boss Thomas Kurian makes his first big move — buys Looker for $2.6 billion (CNBC) Facebook plans June 18th cryptocurrency debut. Here's what we know (TechCrunch) A first look at Amazon's new delivery drone (TechCrunch) Uber Copter to Offer Flights From Lower Manhattan to J.F.K. (NYTimes) Average US Time Spent with Mobile in 2019 Has Increased (eMarketer) People spend more time on mobile devices than TV, firm says (Los Angeles Times)  

Google has announced that starting April 2, 2019, the pricing associated with Google's G Suite Basic and Business plans will increase by 20%. G Suite Enterprise pricing will not be affected by the planned increases. This is the first significant announcement made by Google Cloud since Thomas Kurian took over this year. Even though these increases will directly impact small to mid-size businesses they also have possible (and likely) ramifications for larger businesses that utilize or are considering adopting Google's G Suite Enterprise plan.

See title. Google Cloud Diane Greene steps down as Google's cloud chief (https://www.axios.com/diane-greene-steps-down-as-googles-cloud-chief-1542390453-6335b289-b216-4584-a615-ddb9114a47f5.html) Google looks to former Oracle exec Thomas Kurian to move cloud business along (https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/18/google-looks-to-former-oracle-exec-thomas-kurian-to-move-cloud-business-along) Longer CNBC piece on the switch (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/16/kurian-has-to-overcome-a-bitter-feud-between-google-and-oracle.html). Ray Wang (https://www.computerworlduk.com/it-leadership/who-is-thomas-kurian-new-google-cloud-ceo-3687161/): “Enterprise customers need a different level of care, and Google hasn't been able to deliver to date. So the resources available to Diane may not have always been allocated in the right place, but the resource is there and he has to sit down and see what partners and customer are saying.” More: ‘This might take the form of a growth of the sales or go-to-market teams at Google Cloud, but essentially "enterprises need consistency and roadmaps to adjust as they go," Wang said, and Google Cloud needs to do better at delivering that if it wants to take a bigger chunk of the public cloud market over the crucial coming years. "Google has the opportunity, but the window is closing, so there is 18 months to two years to right the ship," he said.’ History (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oracle-kurian-insight-idUSKBN0KL0BL20150112): built middleware business in the 2000s, Fusion ERP apps integration, cloud business. The Corporate Culture Survival Guide (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27991667-the-corporate-culture-survival-guide-new-and-revised-edition). Relevant to your interests Coté’s stump speech recordings (http://cote.coffee/bettersoftware/). CX is nothing if you don’t change your business (https://diginomica.com/2018/11/12/is-cx-killer-app-for-erp-vendors/) - same for digital transformation, e.g., maybe stuff here (https://www.americaninno.com/austin/inno-news/capital-one-acquires-austin-shopping-and-price-comparison-startup-wikibuy/). Uber getting more legal (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-20/uber-is-reworking-its-playbook-for-world-domination). “Economic Recession Could Drive Serverless Standardization, Consolidation.” (https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/news/economic-recession-could-drive-serverless-standardization-consolidation/2018/11/) Oracle to acquire Talari Networks (https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/oracle-to-acquire-talari-network/). BlackBerry agrees to acquire Cylance for $1.4 billion (https://www.axios.com/blackberry-acquire-cylance-cybersecurity-deal-10a31627-730a-4890-867b-cc4147bbec54.html). Major SMS security lapse is a reminder to use authenticator apps instead (https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098286/vovox-security-breach-two-factor-authentication-2fa-codes-exposed). AWS rolls out new security feature to prevent accidental S3 data leaks (http://bwhichard [11:21 AM] https://www.zdnet.com/article/aws-rolls-out-new-security-feature-to-prevent-accidental-s3-data-leaks/). Users "Starting to Reach for Torches and Pitchforks" amid Fresh Azure and Office 365 Lockout (https://www.cbronline.com/news/azure-down-office-355-down). Tim Cook defends using Google as primary search engine on Apple devices (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/tim-cook-defends-using-google-as-primary-search-engine-on-apple-devices/). Charles Phillips billboards (https://gawker.com/5454315/oracle-president-admits-to-affair-with-woman-from-mystery-billboards). Nonsense Mark Zuckerburg wants you to use Android (https://mashable.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-android-phones-after-apple-ceo-tim-cook-criticism/#g66zRCCRjsqK) Sponsored by Solarwinds This episode is sponsored by SolarWinds® and this week, SolarWinds wants you to know about their tools designed for DevOps: Pingdom®, AppOptics™, Papertrail™, and Loggly®. Today’s recognized pillars of observability combine metrics, traces, and logs to enable DevOps teams to monitor system and application performance. But, these capabilities provide only limited insights into application performance because they ignore the user’s experience—a critical measure of application performance. Understanding if a system is slow or unavailable from an end user’s perspective is crucial in today’s digital world, even if the metrics are good and there are no alerts. Altogether, the combined functionality of Pingdom, AppOptics, Papertrail, and Loggly brings together real user monitoring, synthetic user monitoring, web and application performance metrics, distributed tracing, event aggregation, and log management to help proactively identify bottlenecks and accelerate troubleshooting. By bringing user experience, metrics, traces, and logs together with an easy-to-use, complementary toolkit, DevOps teams gain unmatched visibility into their cloud environment, so they can seamlessly follow an alert or issue from one product into another to resolve issues quickly and get back to focusing on the more proactive elements of their job. Over 275,000 customers worldwide and 499 of the Fortune 500 trust and rely on SolarWinds for their monitoring software. To learn more or try the company’s DevOps products for free, visit http://solarwinds.com/devops. Going to AWS re:Invent? Visit SolarWinds at booth 608 to see their products designed for DevOps first-hand. Conferences, et. al. Dec 12th and 13th, Toronto - SpringTour Toronto (http://springonetour.io/2018/toronto), Coté MC’ing doing open spaces. He won’t be at the Paris one, Dec 4th and 5th (http://springonetour.io/2018/paris) which is stupid planning on his part. 2019, a city near you: The 2019 SpringTours are posted (http://springonetour.io/). Coté will be speaking at many of these, hopefully all the ones in EMEA. They’re free and all about programming and DevOps things. Free lunch and stickers! Get a Free SDT T-Shirt Write an iTunes review of SDT and get a free SDT T-Shirt. Write an ITunes Review on the SDT iTunes Page. (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/software-defined-talk/id893738521?mt=2) Send an email to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and include the following: T-Shirt Size, Preferred Color (Light Blue, Gray, Black) and Postal address. First come, first serve. while supplies last! Listener Feedback Brian from Austin got T-shirt because he wrote an iTunes Review! SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Follow us on Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you a sticker. Listen to the Software Defined Interviews Podcast (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/). Check out the back catalog (http://cote.coffee/howtotech/) Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=8) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Recommendations Brandon: Homecoming (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FNZ35DV/?ref=dvm_us_dl_sl_go_ast_HC_TLeP5|c_294565360295_m_yH0Ue2zJ-dc_s__&gclid=Cj0KCQiA28nfBRCDARIsANc5BFAMIAH6vgtVejxEMRGSmUJPAw_pJ4LLEsWBZlo3KhaARTPVK3LBMxQaAtemEALw_wcB). Coté: UK Registered Traveler (https://www.gov.uk/registered-traveller), bread (https://www.instagram.com/p/BqaJTfwgez1/).

Show: 372Overview: Aaron and Brian talk with Kurt Schrader (@kurt, Founder/CEO of @Clubhouse) and Mitch Wainer (@MitchWainer, CMO of @Clubhouse) about the evolution of project management for software development teams. Cloud News of the Week:Google hires Thomas Kurian to replace Diane Greene - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/16/google-cloud-ceo-greene-being-replaced-by-former-oracle-exec-kurian.htmlShow Interview Links:Clubhouse Homepage - https://clubhouse.io/Clubhouse Enterprise Edition - https://www.clubhouse.io/enterpriseShow Sponsor Links:Datadog Homepage - Modern Monitoring and Analytics[Datadog] Try it yourself by starting a free, 14-day trial today. Listeners of this podcast will also receive a free Datadog T-shirtTopic 1 - Welcome to the show, both us you. Give us a little bit of your backgrounds, and how you got together to start Clubhouse. Topic 2 - Tell us about the Clubhouse platform. It’s focused on helping companies build software more rapidly and with better collaboration. What was broken about software development before Clubhouse came along? Topic 3 - Both of your have been involved in software development for many years. We love talking to founders that have a built a product that they need/want to use. What were some of your moments that convinced you that it was time to build something new vs. being frustrated with what existed?Topic 4 - Let’s talk about the Clubhouse platform. What makes it unique, and what are some of the benefits of bringing together things like Stories, Project Metrics, Kanbana boards, integrated Collaboration into a single platform vs. many tools. Topic 5 - The Enterprise version of Clubhouse just shipped. The company already has more than 1000 active customers. What have you learned from them that helped shape the Enterprise product? Feedback?Email: show at thecloudcast dot netTwitter: @thecloudcastnet and @ServerlessCast

In September, Thomas Kurian took a leave of absence from Oracle after 22 years at the company. Just two months later, he joined Google as the head of cloud computing, heightening underlying tensions between the two companies that have been in an ongoing legal battle for the past 8 years. At Oracle, Kurian led cloud transition efforts but he and Larry Ellison reportedly had differences with respect to Oracle's Cloud vision. Ellison believed in a closed system while Kurian wanted to open up their cloud solutions and allow them to run on AWS, Google, etc. UpperEdge’s Oracle Practice Leader, Jeff Lazarto, discusses his first impressions and what he’ll be paying attention as this plays out.

October 5, 2018 Plus, Oracle and Cisco both see senior executives walk out the door, and Arayaka sharpens its SD-WAN focus.  AT&T, which is in the process of deploying 60,000 white boxes across its network, contributed its white box router specifications to the Open Compute Project. Oracle cloud executive Thomas Kurian left the company permanently after taking an extended leave. David Ulevitch ditched Cisco for a VC firm. This was Cisco’s third executive to leave over the past few months. AT&T Contributes Its Cell Site White Box Router Spec to the Open Compute Project Oracle Top Cloud Exec Thomas Kurian Resigns Cisco’s David Ulevitch Leaves to Join a VC Firm Aryaka’s New CEO Plans to Sharpen SD-WAN Firm’s Message to Customers

October 5, 2018 Plus, Oracle and Cisco both see senior executives walk out the door, and Arayaka sharpens its SD-WAN focus.  AT&T, which is in the process of deploying 60,000 white boxes across its network, contributed its white box router specifications to the Open Compute Project. Oracle cloud executive Thomas Kurian left the company permanently after taking an extended leave. David Ulevitch ditched Cisco for a VC firm. This was Cisco's third executive to leave over the past few months. AT&T Contributes Its Cell Site White Box Router Spec to the Open Compute Project Oracle Top Cloud Exec Thomas Kurian Resigns Cisco's David Ulevitch Leaves to Join a VC Firm Aryaka's New CEO Plans to Sharpen SD-WAN Firm's Message to Customers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thomas Kurian's leave of absence results in him leaving Oracle altogether. According to various news outlets, the main reason for his leaving was due to a dispute with Larry Ellison over whether or not to allow Oracle's Cloud software to work with other Cloud software such as AWS and Azure.

There’s lots of monitoring and systems management M&A and funding this week, so we talk about the cycle of systems management companies. It seems like Atlassian is starting up and operations product line with the OpsGeniue acquisition, and PagerDuty has a whopping valuation at $1.3bn. With rumors that Adobe might buy Marketo, Coté recounts the RIA days and how Adobe ended up doing a good job surviving, despite RIA Relevant to your interests Americano coffee vs long black (http://coffeeofday.com/coffee-answers/americano-vs-long-black/). “Mo’ digital, mo’ problems” - With Emerging Technology Comes Emerging Data Problems (https://www.cmswire.com/information-management/with-emerging-technology-comes-emerging-data-problems/?utm_source=cmswire.com&utm_medium=web-rss&utm_campaign=cm&utm_content=all-articles-rss) Enterprise hits and misses - blockchain is a paradox; AI is a customer service automater (https://diginomica.com/2018/09/06/enterprise-hits-and-misses-blockchain-is-a-paradox-ai-is-a-customer-service-automater/) Oracle president Thomas Kurian is taking time away from the company (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/oracle-president-thomas-kurian-taking-time-off.html) New Cloud Unicorn: PagerDuty Scores $1.3 Billion Valuation In $90 Million Round (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2018/09/06/pagerduty-funding-billion-dollar-valuation/#2fcdfb4c411d) Atlassian to pay $295M for Boston-based OpsGenie (https://www-bizjournals-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2018/09/05/atlassian-to-pay-295m-for-boston-based-opsgenie.amp.html) Nancy Gohring and co analyze the deal (https://clients.451research.com/reportaction/95616/Toc). No, Operations Isn’t Going Anywhere, But it's Going to Look Different (https://www.enterprisetech.com/2018/09/05/no-operations-isnt-going-anywhere-but-its-going-to-look-different/): “The work of operations is changing and the skills required to do that work are changing. The platforms and tools involved are evolving (but don't forget the decades of legacy code that isn't!). Organizational silos are breaking down, and developers and operators are co-mingling as peer engineers.” Jenkins: Shifting Gears (https://jenkins.io/blog/2018/08/31/shifting-gears/) - Coté: recently, I don’t think I’ve heard any one say “yay! Jenkins!” What’s the deal with it? Is Jenkins now bad? Vapor IO Raises PE Funding, Buys Out Nascent Edge Colocation Business from Crown Castle (https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/vapor-io/vapor-io-raises-pe-funding-buys-out-nascent-edge-colocation-business-crown-castle) In a Few Days, Credit Freezes Will Be Fee-Free (https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/09/in-a-few-days-credit-freezes-will-be-fee-free/) Adobe in talks to buy marketing software firm Marketo - sources (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-marketo-m-a-adobe-systems-exclusive/exclusive-adobe-in-talks-to-buy-marketing-software-firm-marketo-sources-idUSKCN1LT0EK) “Adobe, which has a market capitalization of $130 billion, has topped analysts’ profit and revenue estimates for the past eight quarters, driven by strength in its digital media business, which houses its flagship product Creative Cloud.” Johnny Leadgen is interested. Adobe really pulled off a successful strategy. Geoffrey More’s systems of interaction (‘member that?), some CMS/marketing analytics engines, and then moving CS to SaaS. Pretty amazing, considering all the other road-kill out there. Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint team up to kill passwords (https://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/verizon-at-t-t-mobile-and-sprint-team-up-to-kill-passwords) Sysdig raises $68.5 million to boost security and performance for containers and cloud-native apps (https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/12/sysdig-raises-68-5-million-to-boost-security-and-performance-for-containers-and-cloud-native-apps/) Packet Raises $25M Series B, Starts Deployment of Edge Computing Cloud (https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/startups/packet-raises-25m-series-b-starts-deployment-edge-computing-cloud) What Is the Point of Mozilla? (https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/what-point-mozilla) - “in 2016 various deals with search engines brought in an astonishing $520 million.” Linus Torvalds taking break (https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCKd9NQ2wxUmGsz9ZJzqgJQ@mail.gmail.com/) Google is killing Fabric in mid-2019, pushes developers to Firebase (https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/14/google-is-killing-fabric-in-mid-2019-pushes-developers-to-firebase/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslogin&stream=top) Path is shutting down (https://path.com/about?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslogin&stream=top) Mesosphere revenue, new CEO, etc. (https://mesosphere.com/blog/a-new-chapter-for-mesosphere/) - “Last year in Q4 we issued news about hitting a $50m+ run rate and this year’s Q2 marks our biggest quarter ever, beating our numbers over the last 14 quarters. In fact, according to a recent report from Inc, we are the third fastest-growing software company in the U.S. with a revenue growth of 7,507 percent.” Slow down, Pony Boy! You could round that 7 off the growth percent. Google making private cloud stuff (https://www.ciodive.com/news/the-information-google-to-take-on-microsoft-with-cloud-capabilities-for-on/532526/): ‘Google is responding to enterprise computing needs by making custom-designed computers to run in organizations' own data centers, reports The Information. The computers include server, storage and networking functions specifically for "a handful of large customers," according to two sources close to the project in the report.’ Wut. Sponsored by DataDog This episode is sponsored by Datadog and this week Datadog wants you to know about Watchdog. Watchdog automatically detects performance problems in your applications without any manual setup or configuration. By continuously examining application performance data, it identifies anomalies, like a sudden spike in hit rate, that could otherwise have remained invisible. Once an anomaly is detected, Watchdog provides you with all the relevant information you need to get to the root cause faster, such as stack traces, error messages, and related issues from the same timeframe. Sign up for a free trial (https://www.datadog.com/softwaredefinedtalk) today at https://www.datadog.com/softwaredefinedtalk and tell them your friends at Software Defined Talk sent you. Conferences, et. al. Coté isn’t going to see his family until Christmas. GRIND AND STACK. Sep 24th to 27th - SpringOne Platform (https://springoneplatform.io/), in DC/Maryland (crabs!) get $200 off registration with the code S1P200_Cote. Also, check out the Spring One Tour - coming to a city near you (https://springonetour.io/)! Oct 1st to 2nd - New Relic (aka “Not Datadog”) FutureStack London (https://newrelic.com/futurestack/london), Coté on a partner panel on Oct 1st, also, come see The Governor (https://twitter.com/monkchips) in action at FutureStack on the 2nd. Oct 2nd, London! Coté talking metrics at the NO NAME Pivotal Meetup (https://connect.pivotal.io/london-meetup-oct18.html). Oct 4th - ITQ Transform (https://itq.nl/transform/#transform_1), Utrecht - Coté talking. Oct 16th - DevOpsDays Paris (https://www.devopsdays.org/events/2018-paris/welcome/) - Coté at a table. Pivotal will have a raffle! Oct 17th - JDriven Managers summit (https://www.jdriven.com/events/) - near Amsterdam - Coté talking. Oct 10th to 11th - Cloud Expo Asia (https://www.cloudexpoasia.com/cloud-asia-2018) - Matt’s presenting! Oct 11th to 12th - DevOps Days Singapore (https://www.devopsdays.org/events/2018-singapore/) - Matt’s keynoting & igniting! Oct 31st - Coté speaking at New Relic’s FutureStack Amsterdam (https://web.cvent.com/event/23ce37e7-6077-42f5-8015-4a47a0cee30d/summary). Nov 3rd to Nov 12th - SpringOne Tour (https://springonetour.io/) - all over the earth! Coté will be MC’ing Beijing Nov 3rd, Seoul Nov 8th, Tokyo Nov 6th, and Singapore Nov 12th (https://springonetour.io/2018/singapore). Nov 14th to 16th - Devoxx Belgium (https://devoxx.be/), Antwerp. Coté’s presenting on enterprise architecture (https://dvbe18.confinabox.com/talk/ASN-9274/Rethinking_enterprise_architecture_for_DevOps,_agile,_&_cloud_native_organizations). Dec 12th and 13th - SpringTour Toronto (http://springonetour.io/2018/toronto), Coté. Listener Feedback Eoin from Wellington, New Zealand got a sticker. He thanks us for taking the time and energy to make the show. SDT websites are now secure. The annoying security warning is should be gone SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Subscribe to Software Defined Interviews Podcast (http://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/) - Cote on Tech Evangelism (http://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/75) CashedOut.coffee podcast (http://www.cashedout.coffee/). Buy some t-shirts (https://fsgprints.myshopify.com/collections/software-defined-talk)! All T-Shirts $5.50 T-SHIRTS GONE IN SEPTEMBER Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you a sticker. Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=8) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Recommendations Matt: Anthony Bourdain’s Kitchen Confidential (https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culinary-Underbelly/dp/158234082X/); Secret City (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4976512/). Brandon: Amazon Alexa Shopping List (https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201549900). Coté: Bikes. They get you places.

Oracle’s Thomas Kurian has taken a leave of absence from his role as Senior VP President of Product Strategy. It seems Kurian wants to make more of Oracle’s cloud software run on other cloud platforms such as Azure and AWS, where as Ellison wants everything to run on Oracle. Clients need to be aware of Oracle’s eventual strategy as they become accustomed to using Azure and AWS; they may or may not work with Oracle's software in the near future.

Thomas Kurian, President of Product Development at Oracle is taking a leave of absence. Kurian has been at Oracle since 1996, in his email address to employees his leave hints at being more permanent than temporary, and with Oracle OpenWorld just weeks away, it can be assumed he will be absent for the event. Kurian was responsible for Oracle's move to the Cloud and with poor Cloud financials last quarter it could be speculated there's a correlation.

Episode 140 - Juliana Button talks with Thomas Kurian at Oracle OpenWorld 2017 Juliana Button of Rubicon Red talking to Thomas Kurian, EVP of Oracle Development, talking Cloud Adoption which included Customer Experience, Finance and DataCenter Transformation Listen in and join the Digital Impact Radio Show! Run time: 05:57

So news last month of Thomas Kurian, Larry Ellison and Flexcube in the cloud. The featured article this episode is one of our most popular posts, “5 Fatal Mistakes of Oracle licensing.” For all you kind people who have downloaded, please provide feedback and questions. We would love to address any questions on the show. I am currently reaching out to a bunch of very interesting people to have on the show. If you would like to be on the show please get in touch. Thomas Kurian Promoted to President Almost four months since Larry Ellison handed his CEO title to both Safra Catz and Mark Hurd, he has now promoted Thomas Kurian to President. The forty-eight year old was EVP for product development having started his Oracle career leading the Middleware strategy. He helped take Oracle to a leader in the Middleware with the suite of Middleware tools. Larry helps the critters Larry is clearly a busy man and is putting some of his substantial wealth to helping establish a Wildlife breeding and animal rehab centre in the Santa Cruz mountains. Read more at NBC The Bay Area News Oracle Cloud runs a new UK Bank Hampden & Co. will be running Oracle’s core banking solution Flexcube on Oracle cloud. Oracle will run the application as a managed service on Oracle Sparc T5 out of the UK Oracle data center in Linlithgow, just outside Edinburgh, Scotland. Hampden Group run a diversified set of services in the insurance and finance sectors. They announced last year that they would be taking a significant stake in a new bank for private clients called Hampden & Co plc. oracle licensing rules – 5 Fatal Mistakes “Five Fatal Oracle License Mistakes”, alright the title is a bit dramatic, but the following 5 mistakes crop up on such a regular basis that we at Madora believe they are worth reiterating. For those experienced with Oracle, they will know the following as classic gotchas and will keep an eye out. IT professionals and Procurement Officers new to the ways of Oracle may get caught out – so be warned. Let’s walk through some of the five common areas that often have disastrous consequences. The Five Fatal Mistakes are: 1. Virtualising without fully understanding the implications. The issue we see time after time is misunderstanding Oracle licensing on VMware. So why is this? It’s to do with server partitioning. Server partitioning can be very confusing; it is designed to limit the amount of processor resource available to a program; it is nothing to do with the Oracle Database Partitioning extra cost option – that is a means of partitioning data tables. Oracle simplifies server partitioning into two groups; the methods that it refuses to recognise as valid, known as “Soft Partitioning”; and those it accepts really do subdivide servers, known as “Hard Partitioning”. Probably the most popular server partitioning method is VMware, a very flexible form of partitioning and a great means of managing a datacentre. Guess what? It is soft partitioning for Oracle; this means that it is incredibly easy to fall foul of Oracle’s licensing rules. How your VCenter is set up, the clusters, the VMs, the storage architecture all have an impact on licensing. VMware publish guidelines on how to license Oracle but Oracle don’t support their view; great fun when it is your turn for Oracle’s regular license audit! Oracle’s approach to VMware has changed even further since the release of VMware Version 5.1 with its more advanced DRS/VMotion capabilities and its shared storage functionality. Seek independent help to review your architecture and any planned changes; don’t assume anything!! 2. Disaster Recovery scenarios not licensed correctly This can be a complex area with technologies changing all the time. We highly recommend you speak to Madora Consulting if you have any doubts as to whether you are correctly licensed for DR architectures. In general we advise that you assume you need to be licensed fully and then check to see if your scenario falls under failover and whether the 10 day rule applies. In terms of licensing be aware that you cannot mix metrics. In other words if processors are used for the primary site then the backup site also needs to be licensed by processor. A common mistake is believing that Named User Plus licenses can be used for the backup site – in the hope of saving money. You are better off ring fencing the DR servers contractually and negotiating a reduced cost for this license pool. Also make sure that the options and management packs are licensed, as these are often forgotten. In short, scenarios where the Primary and Secondary nodes share a SAN, with the secondary node acting as a failover, only the Primary needs to be licensed. This is valid as long as the failover to the secondary lasts less than 10 days per year, which includes any testing. Any standby or mirroring environments must be fully licensed. See the Oracle paper on DR pricing http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/data-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf 3. Non production environments not licensed. With Oracle you do need a valid license for development environments, test environments and any pre-production environments. This whole article assumes standard terms and conditions but you may have negotiated non standard options, so do check. Test and development must be correctly licensed. Use of OTN licenses does not necessarily mean you are licensed correctly for Development environments. (Note -the environment used by end users for business or other operations is called a production environment.) Oracle Technology Network licenses for development Some developers are aware of the Oracle Technology network where licenses can be downloaded. OTN does offer a restricted license grant but this too is often misunderstood. The OTN license is really for the use of a single developer whom wishes to try out a piece of software. The license is only allowed for one user and one server. We have seen cases of whole development teams assuming that the OTN licenses give them the right to develop an application as they have not moved into production but this is not the case. See below an extract from the OTN license document: “Customers also may download Oracle technology products from the Oracle Technology Network (OTN) at http://otn.oracle.com/software/. In order to download an Oracle product from OTN, customers must signify their agreement to the terms of the OTN Development License. This limited license gives the user the right to develop, but not to deploy, applications using the licensed products. It also limits the use of the downloaded product to one person, and limits installation of the product to one server. Customers may not use products licensed under the OTN Development License in connection with any classroom activity, internal data processing operations, or any other commercial or production use purposes..” If you do use the OTN licenses and work within the restriction i.e. one user, one server as soon as the application developed moves into production the correct licenses must be purchased. We know from talking to Oracle that they do monitor downloads, particularly for the more specialised products and will look for inconsistencies, i.e. a known live environment with 20 downloads could imply that developers are using the software when they should be licensed. 4. Database options typically for the Enterprise Manager Packs are often installed by default but not purchased. This one still crops up either because the DBAs have installed the options as this is the default on installations or because the DBAs assume that the options have been purchased. The reality is that most DBAs really do need the testing, tuning and diagnostic packs. They are almost a prerequisite to managing Oracle estates. Most of us would almost regard them as part of the core database. Unfortunately they are still chargeable options so must be purchased. Some confusion still exists as the Oracle Enterprise Manager (OEM) Database Control and Grid control are provided free of charge. But they need the chargeable packs to really add value and these need licenses to cover the applications that are being monitored. See an extract from Chapter 10 of the Oracle® Enterprise Manager Licensing Information (found on the home page of the OEM documentation) specifically states; “The base installation of Enterprise Manager Cloud Control 12c includes several features free of charge with the purchase of any Oracle software license or Support contract”. It is not unusual for small to mid-sized groups to legally install a Cloud Control free of charge on a spare server in their area. As indicated, a basic install, with no frills, is included with any supported license. A very common pitfall for organisations facing difficulties with their Oracle license management comes from not having the right options granted and management packs installed for their needs. When the Oracle Enterprise Database Edition server is installed, by default all the enterprise options are installed too and it is important to know what you are actually using and whether you need it. There are two aspects to this, firstly you need to know what databases are installed and what editions they are i.e. standard or enterprise. Secondly, you need to know whether any management packs have been “accepted” or options “granted”, to use Oracle’s terminology. Interpreting this incorrectly can significantly affect licensing costs from anywhere between US$163,000 and US$800,000 per processor, because options and management packs require additional licensing and should not be present if not needed as this rapidly adds to the total cost. 5. License Minimums not understood, so Named User Plus licenses not counted correctly. A number of products have a minimum number of licenses that must be purchased, fairly standard software practice in the industry. However, there is added complexity with Oracle with some metrics such as Named User Plus. The mistake many people make is assuming that the number of Named User Plus licenses relates directly to the total number of the users of the system in use, unfortunately that is not always the case. For the Oracle Database Enterprise Edition there is a minimum of 25 Named User Plus per licensable processor. So even with NUPS you still need to understand two things; what a licensable processor is and how many do you have. This presents extra work and understanding on your part. From a compliance point of view you must own the larger of either the total number of users or the license minimums. The key points here are that a user is counted (at source) regardless of whether they actively use the Oracle programs and that non human devices are also counted. If you are using transactional processing monitoring software or using application/web servers then be sure to measure the users at the front end. For example, 1,000 users accessing a web application that connects to a back end database via an application server needs to count 1,000 users, even if the user is an anonymous system user between the application server and database. User minimums still need to be counted as well, so check the relevant user minimums table for the product in question. For Database Enterprise Edition you need the larger of either – processor count x 25 NUPS or User/devices. A licensed Named User Plus may access the Oracle technology on any instance (Production, Test, Development) or server throughout the organisation as long as the user minimums are met. Named User Plus licenses are decreasing in usage as Processor license metrics are increasingly easier to manage and make more sense when it is difficult to measure users.Example 1 Let’s say you have a non production environment used for staging and patch testing before roll out to the live financials systems, the application runs on Oracle Enterprise Edition. The non production environment is used by x 1 DBA, x 1 Financials Functional Consultant and x 1 Financials Developer. The common mistake is to assume that only x 3 Named User Licenses are required. Assuming you have no special contract terms then the license minimums kick in. So firstly we need to know the server(s) that the non production runs on. Let’s say you have two servers each with 8 cores (ask your infrastructure Manager to tell you the total number of cores per server). If you ask for the number of processors you may get the wrong answer, i.e one processor can have 8 cores, so you may use the processor count, which would be incorrect. It is licensable processors which we need and that is dependent on the core count. Think of cores as Olympic rowers sharing the same boat, it’s the number of rowers that impacts speed. We have a total of 16 cores and to determine the total number of licensable processors multiply the core count by the core multiplier. See our downloadable guide to useful oracle links to get the URL for the table. The core multiplier is dependent on the Chip manufacturer. If your Chip manufacture is Intel then simply multiply the core count by 0.5. So 16 x 0.5 = 8 Licensable Processors. Now each processor needs a minimum of 25 Named User Plus licenses. So we are looking at 25 x 8 = 200 Named User Plus Licenses. As this is the greater of the number of users/devices then this is the number required to be correctly licensed. Yes indeed! 200 Named Users required not 3! This is the gift that just keeps giving for Oracle. Don’t get caught out.Example 2 Lets look at the production environment for the live Financials systems. The application runs on Oracle Enterprise Edition on 2 servers with a total 16 cores. The environment is used by x 1 DBA, x 1 Financials Functional Consultant and x 1 Financials Developer with a total of 300 employees for Payroll. You know from the previous example that the minimums are 200 Named Users, but this is lower than the 300 employees (includes the DBA and 2 Developers.) Oracle therefore, no surprise here, requires 300 Named User licenses. Now although a Named User gives the right to access any server, the user minimums for the entire Oracle estate still apply. So for the production and non production environments, 300+200 = 500 named Users would be required. See a more detailed article on User Minimums The above are the most common costly mistakes Madora come across. Thank you for downloading. Please find more about us online at Madora.co.uk. Would love to hear from you. Drop me a line via email kay.williams@madora.co.uk