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Our culture says, 'Look out for number one! Me first! Gimme & gimme some more!' Pastor Greg Laurie points out the biblical alternative of mercy. Basically, it's compassionate pity plus action. Support the show: https://harvest.org/resources/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's not every day that you can hear a great conversation with the Head of Product of Excel. Brian Jones sits down with us and talks about the past, present, and very promising future of Excel. Rob and Brian go way back, and the stories and laughs abound!   Check out this cool World Orca Day Excel template for kids!   Episode Timeline: 4:00 - Brian's lofty title is Head of Product at Excel, The importance and magic of Excel, and people's a-ha moments with Excel 20:25 - The difficulty of not seeing your projects' impact on the world and how the heck does Bluetooth fit into the story?!, Rob and Brian reminisce with some funny conference stories 32:00 - The XML file format and some very neat XML tricks that everyone should know about 51:25 - The birth of the Excel Web App and Rob can't believe some of the things that Brian's team has done with Excel 1:05:00 - How to onboard the Excel, VLOOKUP, and Pivot crowd into data modeling and Power BI, and the future of Excel most certainly includes the Lambda function (maybe!) Episode Transcript: Rob Collie (00:00:00): Hello, friends. Today's guest, Brian Jones, head of product for this thing you might've heard of called Microsoft Excel. Brian and I go back a long way. We were both youngsters at Microsoft at the same time, and we both worked on some early features of Office apps, and we're friends. Really, really have sincerely warm feelings about this guy, as you often do with people that you essentially grew up with. And that's what we did. When Brian and I first worked together, he was working on Word and I was working on Excel. But even though Brian was on Word at the time, he was already working on what we would today call citizen developer type of functionality in the Word application. So even though we were essentially on different sides of the aisle within the Office organization, we were already finding ourselves able to connect over this affinity for the citizen developer. Rob Collie (00:00:55): Now we have some laughs during this conversation about how in hindsight, the things he and I were working on at the time didn't turn out to be as significant as we thought they were in the moment. But those experiences were very valuable in shaping both of us for the initiatives that came later. Rob Collie (00:01:11): Like almost everyone at Microsoft, Brian has moved around a bit. He's worked on file formats for the entire Office suite, which ended up enabling Power Pivot version one to actually function the way that it should. He's worked on Office-wide extensibility and programmability, back to that citizen developer thing again. And in that light, it's only natural that Excel's gravity reeled him in. And in that light, it's only natural that someone like that, someone like Brian, found his way to Excel, and it really is a match made in heaven. And if you permit me the Excel joke, that turned out to be a great match. Rob Collie (00:01:50): We took the obligatory and entertaining, I hope, walk down memory lane. We spent a lot more time than I expected talking about file format. And the reason why is that file formats are actually a fascinating topic when you really get into it. Lot of history there, a lot of very interesting history and challenges we walked through. And of course, we do get around to talking about Excel, its current state, where it's headed, and also the amazing revelation for me that monthly releases actually mean a longer attention span for a product and how we ended up getting functionality now as a result of the monthly release cycle that would have never fit into the old multi-year release cycle. We were super grateful to have him on the show. And as usual, we learned things. I learned things. I have a different view of the world after having this conversation than I did before it, which is a huge gift. And I hope that you get the same sort of thing out of it. So let's get into it. Announcer (00:02:56): Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention please? Announcer (00:03:03): This is the Raw Data by P3 Adaptive podcast, with your host Rob Collie and your cohost Thomas Larock. Find out what the experts at P3 Adaptive can do for your business. Just go to p3adaptive.com. Raw Data by P3 Adaptive is data with the human element. Rob Collie (00:03:26): Welcome to the show. Brian Jones, how are you, sir? Brian Jones (00:03:30): I am fantastic. Thank you for having me, Rob. I'm excited. Rob Collie (00:03:33): So let's start here today. Well, you and I go way back, but today, what's your job title and what are your responsibilities? Brian Jones (00:03:42): So today, my job is I'm the head of product for the Excel team. So I lead the team of product managers that are tasked with or given the honor of deciding the future of Excel, where we go with Excel, what are the set of things that we go and build Rob Collie (00:03:59): Head of product. That's a title that we didn't have back when I was still at Microsoft. We did at one point have something called a product unit manager. Is it similar to that? How does that relate? Brian Jones (00:04:11): That's a good question. So we're continuing to evolve the way that we use titles internally. So internally, we have titles that still for most folks externally don't make any sense, like program manager, group program manager, program manager manager, director of program manager. And so for externally, whenever I'm on LinkedIn or if I do PR interviews, things like that, I use the term head of product. Internally, we don't have the term head of product. Rob Collie (00:04:37): Okay. All right. So that's a translation for us. Brian Jones (00:04:40): Yes, exactly. Trying to translate the Microsoft internal org chart to something that makes more sense to folks. Rob Collie (00:04:49): Yeah. So things like, if we use the word orthogonal, what we're really saying is that's not relevant. Brian Jones (00:04:53): Exactly. Rob Collie (00:04:54): That kind of decoder ring. Brian Jones (00:04:57): I didn't realize orthogonal [inaudible 00:04:59] until you said it and I'm like, " Oh yeah, no. Of course, that is completely a ridiculous term to use." Rob Collie (00:05:03): Or I don't know if they still do this, but an old joke that Dave [Gayner 00:05:07] and I used to have, it was all his joke at the time. It was big bet. Do we still talk about big bet? We're going to place a big bet. Brian Jones (00:05:14): Yep. Big bet or big rocks. Big rocks. You know the- Rob Collie (00:05:17): Big rocks. Whoa. Brian Jones (00:05:18): Yeah. It's kind of an analogy. You've got a jar and you want to fill it with the big rocks first, and then you let the sand fill in the rest of the space. So what are the big rocks? Rob Collie (00:05:26): Okay. Yeah. But big bet was one that we used to always make fun of. Brian Jones (00:05:31): Especially when there'd be, "Here are the big bets," and there's 20 of them. Rob Collie (00:05:34): Yeah. The joke I think we used to make was we would call something a big bet when we really didn't have any good reason for doing what we were doing. Anyway, all right. So you're head of product for Excel. That is a pretty heady job. That's pretty awesome. Brian Jones (00:05:52): It's a pretty fun job. Absolutely. Rob Collie (00:05:54): I mean, you're not lacking for eyeballs in that business, are you? We're all friends here. We're all on the same side of this story. I mean, it is the lingua franca of business, Excel. It is the business programming tool. People don't necessarily think of it as programming, but formulas are a programming language. To be head of product for the platform, you could call it an application, but really it's probably more accurate to call it a platform that is, I think, is the single most critical platform to business in the world. That's pretty amazing. Brian Jones (00:06:30): Absolutely. And that's usually the way that we talk about it internally. It depends on who your audience is externally when you're talking about it. But yeah, Excel is a programming language. I remember even before, back when I was on the Word team, but I would go and meet with PJ, who ran program manager for Office all up. And he'd always referred to Excel more as an IDE. And that didn't totally resonate with me at the time because to me, Excel was just a list app, an app for just tracking things. I didn't totally understand what he meant by that, but I'd nod cause he was super important and smart. And it wasn't really until I started working on the team that I was like, "Oh, I totally understand all these things that PJ used to reference." Rob Collie (00:07:06): This one of the things I had been dying to ask you is when you and I first met, I was working on the Excel team, but still had... Gosh, this was year 2000 maybe, maybe 2001. And even though I was nominally part of the Excel team at that point, I still didn't really know Excel, and you were working on Word. So the thing we both had in common at that point is that we didn't know Excel. So I wanted to get your perspective. I know that you've done some things other than Word, but we were already sort of teasing this. So let's just get into it. What's it like to come from "outside" Excel and how's that transition? How do you view Excel differently today versus what you did before? We already started talking about that. The list keeper. That's very common way for people to view it. Brian Jones (00:07:53): When I first started, yeah, I was on Word, although I was working on more kind of end user developer type of pieces of Word. That's how you and I first interacted because we were talking about XML. The first feature I owned was a feature called easy data binding to Excel. And the whole idea was when you could easily bring content from Excel into Word, but then create a link back so that the content in Word would stay live. And a lot of this stuff that I did while I was on Word was all about trying to make Word a little bit more of a structured tool so that people could actually program against it because Word is completely unstructured. It's just free-flowing text. So trying to write a solution against that is almost impossible because you can't predict anything. So we did a lot of work to add structure, whereas Excel out of the gate has all that structure. So it's just much easier to go and program. Brian Jones (00:08:39): If I had gone straight from Word to Excel, it would have been a little bit more of a shock, but I actually had about eight years in between where I was running our extensibility team. So a lot of the work we would do was revving the add-in model and extensibility for Excel. So I got some exposure there. When we did all of the file format stuff and the whole file format campaign, That was a couple of years where I was working really closely with a bunch of folks in Excel, like Dan [Badigan 00:09:06] and folks like that. So I had a bit of exposure, but I'll tell you when I first joined, I had a similar job, but it was for the Access team and we were building up some new tech. Brian Jones (00:09:17): Some of it still is there today. Office Forms came out of some of the investments that we were doing in Access. But when I showed up into Excel, I was very much in that mode of, "Why don't the Excel folks, get it? Everything should be a table with column headings." And like, "That's the model. And why do they stick with this grid? Clearly word of it is eventually going to go away from the printed page as the key medium. Excel's got to go away from the grid. And they've got to understand that this should just be all tables that can be related." And thankfully, I was responsible when I joined and didn't try and act like I knew everything. So I took some time to go and learn. Brian Jones (00:09:52): And it didn't take me long. We have some crazy financial modeling experts on the team and stuff like that, where I'd say it was maybe six months in that it clicked for me where I understood those two key pieces. The grid and formulas are really the soul and the IP of Excel. The fact that you can lay out information really easily on a grid, you have formulas that are your logic, and you can do this step-by-step set of processes where each cell is almost like another little debug point for you. [Cal captain sub 00:10:20] second, and it's the easiest way to go and learn logic and how to build logic. Brian Jones (00:10:25): I didn't get any of that at that time, but you pick it up pretty quickly when you start to look at all the solutions that people are building. And now, obviously, I've been on the team now for five years, so I'm super sold around it. But I'd say it took me a little while and I'm still learning. It takes a while to learn the whole thing. Rob Collie (00:10:41): Yeah. It's funny. Like you said, Word's completely unstructured. You're looking in from the outside and you're like, "Well, Excel is completely structured." Then you get close to it. You're like, "Oh no. And it's not, really." Brian Jones (00:10:52): No. Not at all. Rob Collie (00:10:53): I mean, it's got the cells. Rows and columns. You can't avoid those. But within that landscape, is it kind of deliberately wild west? You can do whatever you need to. You're right. Okay. So tables, yes. Tables are still very important. But you've got these parameters and assumptions and inputs. And what do you do with those? I mean, they're not make a table for those. Brian Jones (00:11:19): Yep. Absolutely. I think that the thing that I started to get really quickly was the beauty of that. Like you said, it's unstructured. You have nice reference points. So if you're trying to build logic, formulas, you can reference things. But there's no rule about whether or not things go horizontally, vertically, diagonally, whatever. You can take whatever's in your mind that you're trying to make a decision around and use that flexible grid to lay it out. It's like a mind map. If you think about the beauty, the flexibility of a mind map, that's what the grid is. You can go and lay out all the information however it makes the most sense to you. Brian Jones (00:11:53): Really, that's what makes Excel still so relevant today. If you think about the way business is evolving, people are getting more and more data, change is just more constant, business processes are changing all the time. So there are certain processes where people can say, "This thing is always going to work the same way." And so you can go and get a vertical railed solution. That's why we use the term rail. That's kind of like if I always know I'm going to take this cargo from LA to San Francisco, I can go and build some rails, and I got a train, it'll always go there and do the same thing. But if business is constantly changing, those rails are quickly going to break and you're going to have to go off the rails. Excel is more like a car than a train. You can go anywhere with it. And so as the business processes change, the people who are using Excel are the same people who are the ones changing those business processes. Those are the business folks. And so they can go and evolve and adapt it and they don't have to go and find another ISV to go and build them another solution based on that new process that's probably going to change again in six months. Thomas Larock (00:12:52): So Brian's been in charge for five years of Excel, and he's sitting there telling us how there's still more to learn. And two weeks ago, we all got renewed as MVPs. And so I was on the MVP website, and I'm going through all the DLs I can join because that's all a manual process these days. I'm like, "Oh, there's the Excel MVP DL. I don't know why I haven't joined this yet." So I click. I'm immediately flooded with 100 emails a day. 100 emails a day. Now, I don't believe I am a novice when it comes to Excel. I don't. I know I'm not on you all's level at all when it comes to it. You build and work and live the product. But I know my way around enough that I can explain things to others when they say, "I'm trying to do this thing." "Oh, I think it's possible." Thomas Larock (00:13:40): But I read these passionate MVPs that you have and the stuff that they highlight, and it's not complex stuff. It's like, "Hey, this title bar seems to be wider in this." And I'm like, I might not even notice this stuff. And I see these features that aren't a complex feature, but I'm like, "I didn't even know that was there. I didn't even know you could do that. Oh, you can do that too." There's so much. And like you said, it's a programming language. It's an IDE. It's all these things. As [Sinopski 00:14:10] said, "It's the killer app for Windows." To have the head of product say that, there's just so much. He really means it. There is a lot to it. And it is something that is malleable and usable by hundreds of millions of people a day. Brian Jones (00:14:25): Yeah. Rob Collie (00:14:26): My old joke is, if you want to know how good someone is at Excel, just ask them, "How good are you at Excel?" And then take their answer and invert it. Brian Jones (00:14:37): That's absolutely true. Rob Collie (00:14:38): If someone says, "Yeah, I'm really good at it," You know they don't have any clue because they haven't glimpsed the depth of that particular mine shaft. And once someone has been to the show, they know better than to oversell their knowledge because they know they can't know everything. Rob Collie (00:14:54): You say you're good at Excel. And then the very next question is one that you're not going to be able to answer. So you got to be careful. [inaudible 00:15:00] person views Excel as Word with a grid. And that's not obviously what it is, but that's the oversimplification for... I don't know... maybe 80% of humanity. Brian Jones (00:15:10): Yeah. And the thing is, there's a lot more that we're doing in the app now to try and make it, one, more approachable, because there's a set of folks that just find it really intimidating, for sure. You open it up and it's this huge, dense grid. Like, "Hey, where do I start? What should I go and do? I've never even heard of this thing before." In the past, a lot of stuff that we would do, we never really thought about those first steps of using the app because we were always like, "Well, everybody knows our app. We're going to go and do the things for everybody that knows our app." And I think we're doing a better job now trying to think, "Well, there's a bunch of people who don't know about our app. Let's go and figure out what the experience should be like for them." Brian Jones (00:15:43): But we've done a lot with AI where we're trying to get a little bit better about... We look at your data. Recommend things to you. So we'll say, "If you've got a table of data, hey, here's a pivot table." You may not have even heard of the pivot table before. So really more like, "Hey, here's a summary of your data." You want to go and insert that. Brian Jones (00:16:00): In fact, those tests are always fun because then we get to work with people who've really haven't ever used a pivot table. So it's always fun to hear the words that they use to describe what a pivot table is. It's like, "Oh wow, you grouped my data for me." Or stuff like that like, "Wow. That's a nice name for it too." So we're trying to do more of that to expose people to really those higher-end things. But those things where for those of us that use it, once you discover that stuff, you're even more hooked on the product. You're like, man, that first experience of somebody built a pivot table for you and you realize, "Oh my God, I didn't know I could do this with my data. Look how much easier it is for me to see what's going on," and trying to get more people to experience that kind of magical moment. Thomas Larock (00:16:39): Now imagine being me and only knowing pivot through T-SQL and that magical day when you meet Rob and he's like, "You just pivot table [inaudible 00:16:49]." And you're like, "How many hours have I wasted? Why didn't someone tell me?" Brian Jones (00:16:56): Yeah. We get that a lot when we'll go and show stuff. Oftentimes, the reaction is more frustration. "I can't believe I didn't know about this for the past five years." Rob Collie (00:17:05): We get that all the time now with Power Pivot and Power Query and Power BI in general. The target audience for that stuff hasn't been really effectively addressed by Microsoft marketing. But even back, just regular pivot tables, such a powerful tool, and so poorly named. You weren't around on the Excel team, Brian, when I waged a six-month campaign to try to rename pivot table to summary table. Brian Jones (00:17:31): Oh really? Rob Collie (00:17:31): Yeah. Brian Jones (00:17:31): How long ago was that? Rob Collie (00:17:33): Oh, well, it was a long time ago. I mean [crosstalk 00:17:35]- Brian Jones (00:17:36): Pivot tables had already been out for quite a while. Rob Collie (00:17:37): Oh God. Yeah. I mean, they were long established. They were in the product. I didn't even know what they did. Believe it or not, I worked on the Excel team for probably about a year before I actually figured what pivot tables could do. People would just throw it around all the time on the team like, "Well, once you have the data, then you can chart it. You can pivot it," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I would fit in- Brian Jones (00:17:58): You would nod? Rob Collie (00:17:59): I would fit in... I would also author sentences like that, that had the word pivot in it. It was a pretty safe thing to do. There was no downside to it. But believe it or not, the time that I discovered what pivot tables are for... you'll love this... I was trying to figure out how to skill balance the four different fantasy football leagues that I had organized within the Excel and Access team. I wanted to spread it out. Levels of experience. I've got this table of data with the person's name and their level of experience and my tentative league assignment. And just this light bulb went on. I'm like, "Oh my God, I bet this is what pivot tables are for." Total expertise by league. Like, "Oh, look at that. It's totally it." That was a big change for me. That was during the release, Brian, where you and I were working together. Brian Jones (00:18:54): I think I played on one of those fantasy football leagues. Rob Collie (00:18:56): You might have. Brian Jones (00:18:57): I was one of the people with zero experience. I remember going into the draft not knowing... I knew football, but I didn't know anything about fantasy football. Rob Collie (00:19:03): That's right. We did loop you in. So let's do that way back machine for a moment. That release when you and I met was the first release on Excel. I was the lead at that point. It was my first time being a lead. It was the first time I was in charge of a feature set, and it was really my baby, this XML thing we were doing. And the reason for that was because no one was paying any attention. That was this weird release. For a whole release, Office went and tried to do cloud services without having any idea what that really was going to mean. And so we stripped all of the applications down to skeleton crews. And this is really the only reason why on the Excel side, some youngster like me was allowed to be a lead and come up with a feature, because no one cared. No one was paying any attention. There was no one minding the store. Rob Collie (00:19:48): I remember being so wild-eyed enthusiastic about how much this was going to change the world, this XML import export future. And I mean, you might as well just take it out. I can't imagine it's being used hardly at all today. I bet Power View is used more often than the XML import export feature. You all have done a pretty good job of hiding it. So kudos. But it was a good thing to cut my teeth on. I learned a lot of valuable lessons on that release. Rob Collie (00:20:24): How do you feel about the XML structure document work that you were doing in Word at the time? Do you kind of have the same feeling looking back at it that I do? Brian Jones (00:20:33): It was a similar thing. In fact, we did rip it out a couple of years later. I think that when you and I would talk about it, we would talk about these scenarios that were super righteous and great. And then we just start geeking out on tech. And then we would get way too excited about the tech and we kind of forget about those initial scenarios. We wouldn't stop and think, "Wait a minute. These users we're talking about, are they actually going to go and create XML files?" Because you need one of those to start with before any of this stuff makes sense. And no, of course, they're not. But for me, a lot of it started from that. Like I said, one of my first features was that easy data binding to Excel feature. And we thought, "Hey, maybe XML would be a good tech for us to use as a way of having Word and Excel talk to each other," because clearly they have different views on what formatting is and how to present information, but the underlying semantic information, that could be shared. Brian Jones (00:21:20): And so I could have a set of products show up in Excel as a table. And when they come into Word, they look more like a catalog of products. That totally makes sense. And we just did a lot of assumptions that people would make, do all the glue that was really necessary. And of course, they didn't. So I had the exact same experience. The other big thing that was different back then for us was we would plan something, meet with customers for six months, but then it'd take three years to go and build it. We had no way of validating that stuff with customers because we couldn't get them any of the builds. And then even after we shipped it, they weren't actually going to deploy it for another three-plus years. And so the reality is from when you had the idea to where you actually can see that it's actually not working and people aren't using it is probably about six years. So you've probably moved on to something else by then. Brian Jones (00:22:04): The only way you really as a PM got validation that your feature was great was whether or not leadership and maybe press got excited about your thing, but you didn't get a whole lot of signal from actual customers whether or not the thing was working, which is obviously completely different now, thank goodness. Rob Collie (00:22:18): Yeah. That Is true. It took some of the fun out of being done too, now looking back at it, like the day of the ship party, when we were done with the three-year release. "Okay, fine." We'd dunk each other in fountains and there'd be hijinks and stuff. But the world did not experience us being done. That was purely just us feeling done. And then it was like you take a week off maybe, and then the next week, you're right back to the grind at the very beginning. You never got the payoff. Even if you built something really good, by the time the world discovered it and it was actually really helping people at any significant scale, you're no longer even working on that product. Brian Jones (00:22:57): Yeah. You're doing something completely different. Rob Collie (00:22:59): You might be in a different division, both finding out the things in real time that Rob Collie (00:23:03): [inaudible 00:23:00] Both finding out the things, sort of in real time, that aren't working. That's the obvious advantage, right? But there's also this other emotional thing. Like you never got the satisfaction when you actually did succeed. Brian Jones (00:23:11): Right. You didn't see it actually get picked up, adopted. Millions and millions of people using it, which is what the team gets now. We no longer pick a project and say, "Okay, how many people and how long is this going to take?" You really just try and figure out what's critical mass for that project. And then you just let them run. And you'd be really clear around what are the goals and outcomes they're trying to drive. And they just keep going until they actually achieve that. Or we realized that we were wrong, right? And we say, "Hey, we thought people are going to be excited about this. It's not even an implementation thing. We were just wrong. We misread what people really were trying to do. Let's stop. Let's kind of figure out a way of moving off of that and go and figure out what the next thing is we should go and do." Rob Collie (00:23:50): That era that we're talking about right now. The 2003 release of Office. I was still very much a computer science graduate and amateur human. That's exactly backwards, it turns out, if you're trying to design a tool that's going to be used by humanity. Brian Jones (00:24:08): Well, it's what leads you to get really Excited about XML? Rob Collie (00:24:12): That's right. Yeah. That's right. Tech used to have such a power in my life. I'm exactly the opposite now. Every time I hear about some new tech, I'm like, "Yeah, prove it." I am not going to believe in this new radical thing until it actually changes the world around me. I'm not going to be trying to catch that wave. But XML did that to me. It was almost a threat. If we don't take this seriously, we're going to get outflanked. It got really egregious. Rob Collie (00:24:42): I had a coworker one time in that same release in the middle of one of my presentations asked me. This guy wasn't particularly, in the final analysis, looking back, not one of the stronger members of the team, but he had a lot of sibling rivalry essentially in his DNA. And he'd asked me in front of his crowded room, "Well, what are you going to do about Bluetooth?" And, we didn't know what Bluetooth was yet, right? It was like, unless I had an answer for what we were going to do about Bluetooth and Excel, right? Then I was not up on things. You know, the thing that we use to connect our headphones. At the time, Bluetooth was one of those things that might just disrupt everything. Brian Jones (00:25:29): It was funny. It was at that same time, I was asked to give a presentation to the Word team about Bluetooth. We were all assigned things to go and research as part of planning and that was one of the ones I was asked. And I gave a presentation that was just very factual. Here's what it is. And I was given really bad feedback that like, "Hey, I wasn't actually talking about it strategically and how it was going to affect Word. I was just being very factual." And I was like, "I don't understand. I don't understand what success looks like in this task." Right. Rob Collie (00:25:59): I remember going, a couple of years later, going into an offsite, those offsite big, I don't know if you all still do those things, big offsite, blue sky brainstorming sessions. There was this really senior development lead that was there with me. And he and I were kind of buddies. At one point, halfway through the day, he just leans over to me and says, "Hey, I'm going to the restroom and I'm not coming back." And I looked at him in horror, almost like "Thou dost dishonor the offsite!?" And he's like, "Yeah, you know, I've never really believed that much in this particular phase of the product cycle. It's never really meant anything to me. It's all just BS." It was just devastating. I just knew it was right. He was... Brian Jones (00:26:46): But you didn't want to, you didn't want to believe that. Rob Collie (00:26:52): I mean, I felt so special. I was invited to the offsite, the big wigs and everything. Brian Jones (00:26:57): They have nice catering too, Rob Collie (00:26:59): Yeah and he was totally right to leave. Brian Jones (00:27:04): I always remember getting super nervous to present stuff for those. Once it was actually, it was one of our XML ones where I was trying to convince, it was my attempt to get us to create an XML file format, which actually ended up, obviously, happening. But I got an engineer to go to work with and we had Word through an add-in, start to write to XML. And it was just a basic XML format. And then I built all of these... it was like asp.net tools that would go and then create an HTML version of the Word doc that was editable. And it also even created, I think it was called WHAP, I don't remember, like a tech for phones. It was back when you didn't have the rich feature phones, but these basic ones. Brian Jones (00:27:41): And so I created this thing that was almost like a SharePoint site. So you could take all your Word docs, go through this add-in, and then you could actually get an HTML view of them to edit it and a phone view of them to go and edit it. Brian Jones (00:27:51): I think it was probably 2002 or 2001, but I was so excited to go and show that at the offsite because I was like, "Okay, this is where I make it, man. Everybody's going to be so excited about me." But I don't know. I think everybody was excited about Bluetooth at that point or something. Yeah. Rob Collie (00:28:05): Oh yeah Bluetooth, WHAP was so 15 minutes ago. So there's a few, irresistibly funny or interesting things I want to zero in on from that era before we come back to present, and we're definitely going to come back to present, for sure. Rob Collie (00:28:21): First of all, we went to a conference like some W3C sponsor. I don't think it was necessarily W3C affiliated, but it was the XML conference. Brian Jones (00:28:31): The one in Baltimore? Rob Collie (00:28:32): Yes. Rob Collie (00:28:33): Okay. Now two very, very, very memorable things happened at that conference. I bet you already know one of them. But the other one was, and we're just going to make this all this anonymous person's fault. Okay. We're not going to abdicate any responsibility. And we're just going to talk about our one coworker from Eastern Europe who brought his wife and they had vodka in their hotel fridge, or freezer, or something like that. And every day I would wake up and say, "I am not going to get suckered into that again." Rob Collie (00:29:12): And then the next day I would wake up and say the same thing. That was a tough trip. Brian Jones (00:29:16): I definitely remember that. Rob Collie (00:29:18): Even on my young, relatively young, body at the time that... Trying to keep up with that, that was difficult. But the single most outstanding memory from that conference, and we will also leave this person anonymous. But there was an executive at Microsoft who was hotter on XML than either you or I, which is hard to believe, right. And we ended up with the sponsored after hours session at this conference. You remember this? You see... Brian Jones (00:29:45): I do. Rob Collie (00:29:46): You know where we're going. Okay. So this was a 30 minute sponsored by Dell or something. Right. It was a 30 minute session, at 5:00 PM, at the end of a conference day where everyone's trying to go back and get to the bars or whatever, right.? But, it's a Microsoft executive, it's Dell sponsored, we'll show up. And the plan was at the end of this 30 minute talk given by this executive, he was going to bring all of us up on the stage to show everyone the team that had done all of this, right? Great plan. Except it was the worst presentation in history. I remember it running for two hours. It was so bad that we started off with 200 people in the room and at the end of it, and I'm just like an agony the whole time cause like I'm associated with this, right? Rob Collie (00:30:31): At the end of these two hours, or what felt like two hours anyway, it was easily 90 minutes. There's five people left in this room of 200 and it's not like the presentation is adapted to the fact that it's a smaller audience. It's just continued to drone on exactly as if everyone was there, right? And I'm sitting here thinking, "Okay, he's not going to call us all up on this stage. There's been more people on the stage than in the audience. If he does this, he's clearly not going to do that." And then he did and we all had to parade up there and stand there like the biggest dodos. I've never been more professionally embarrassed I don't think, than that moment. Rob Collie (00:31:14): And we're all looking at each other as we get up out of our seats like, "Oh my god." Brian Jones (00:31:19): I definitely remember this. Rob Collie (00:31:22): I don't see how you could have forgotten. Brian Jones (00:31:23): Well, yeah. And the person that we're talking about is actually one of my favorite people on the planet. I totally... I love this guy. I view him as like a mentor and everything, but... Which makes me remember it even more. Brian Jones (00:31:34): I think it was just, there was so much excitement. There'd been so much build up to this and this was like a kind of crescendo right? Of bringing this stuff. We probably should have had it a little bit shorter. Rob Collie (00:31:46): I mean when it reaches the point where clueless, mid twenties, Rob Collie is going, "Oh no, this is not the emotional, this not the move." You don't do it. Brian Jones (00:31:58): I'm no longer excited about being called up. Rob Collie (00:32:04): So from my perspective, you kind of parlayed that experience of the XML and all that kind of stuff. I think you did a really fantastic job of everything you guys did on that product. Again, it was the relevance that ultimately fell flat for both of us right. I guess in the end, the excitement with XML wasn't really all that appreciably different from the excitement about Bluetooth. I mean, it's everywhere, right? XML is everywhere. Bluetooth is everywhere and neither one of them really changed things in terms of what Excel or Word should be doing. It seemed like you played that into this file format second act. And I think very, very, very effectively, actually there was a little bit of controversy. Rob Collie (00:32:43): Let's set the stage for people. This was the 2007 release of Office where all the file formats got radically overhauled. This is when the extra X appeared on the end of all the file names, right? Brian Jones (00:32:58): Yeah. Rob Collie (00:32:58): There was a controversy internally. Kind of starting with Bill actually. That we shouldn't make well-documented transparent file format specs, right. There was this belief that the opaque file formats of the previous decades was in some sense, some big moat against competition. And of course, a lot of our competitors agreed. Tailor out in the public saying, "Yes, this is a barrier to competition. It's a monopolistic, blah, blah, blah." We, Microsoft had just gotten its ass kicked in the Anna Truss case. So it was really interesting. I credit Brian, your crew, with really advocating this very effectively. That's a difficult ship to turn. First of all, you got all these teams to buy into all this extra work, which no one wants to do. But when it's not even clear whether you have top level executive support, in fact, you might actually have C-suite antagonism towards an idea. To get it done. That's a career making achievement. I'm sure you remember all of that. Right. But what are your reactions to that controversy? Do you remember being in the midst of that? Brian Jones (00:34:12): I do. It was definitely a long running project. It evolved over quite a number of years. The beginning of it was, in that previous release, the XML stuff you and I were talking about was more about what we called "Custom XML". Right? So people would go and create for themselves. But in that same release, we had Word, we outputted an XML format that was our definition, which we called "Word ML" and Excel did a similar thing. Words' we try to make full fidelity. So you could save any word document in the XML format. Excel's was kind of a tailored down, it was less about formatting, it was more, "Hey, here's like..." It's almost like, "Here's a better version of CSV, right. But we're going to do it as XML." And so we already had a little bit of that. Brian Jones (00:34:53): And the whole reason we were looking at that was, on the Word side, for instance, a lot of the customer issues that we'd get where people would have corrupt files, they were corrupt because they there'd be some add-in that they had running or some third party app that was reading and writing word files. The files were fairly brittle and complex. The binary format... The binary format was written back in the days of floppy disks, right? So the top priority was how quickly can you write to a floppy disk and read from a floppy disc, right? It wasn't about, how easy is this for other people to go and read and write? Not because it was on purpose, make it hard. It was just the primary bid is let's get this thing so it's really easy to read and write from floppy, right? Brian Jones (00:35:31): And so in Word, we were like, "Wow, I think that there's a bigger opportunity here for an ecosystem around Word if we make it easy for people to read and write Word docs and build solutions around them." And so then the next release, the Excel team was looking at doing some big changes around a lot of the limitations, like how many rows you could have in columns, right. Lengths of like formulas and things like that. Right. And so there was this thing where the Excel team was like, "We are going to need to create a new file format." And on the word side, we thought this XML thing was great. We want to move to that as our new format. Brian Jones (00:36:01): And so everything kind of came together and it was clear. Hey, this is going to be the release that we are going to go and rev our file format, which we hadn't done in a while. This is also the release of the ribbon. So there were two really big major changes in that product, right? It was the new file format and the ribbon. It's funny. I still refer to it as the new file format, even though it's 15 years old. Rob Collie (00:36:23): Yeah. It's the new file format it's still new, yeah. Brian Jones (00:36:25): I still call it that, which is kind of nuts. But I think that the controversies you were talking about was really more of a... Boy, this is a really big deal for the product. We had changed file formats before in the past and not necessarily gotten it right. And there were a lot of challenges around compatibility and stuff. And so there was just a lot of worry of let's make sure you all have your stuff together here, right? Like let's make sure that this doesn't in any way break, stop people from wanting to upgrade to the new version. But it went really well. The whole goal of it was let's get something that we think third parties can go and read and write, and this is going to help build an ecosystem. And a new ecosystem run Office. Office already had big ecosystem with VBA and COMM add-ons and stuff like that, right.? But we won't have this new ecosystem around our file formats as a thing. That's why we chose... There's a packaging layer, which is all zip based. So if people haven't played around with it that XLSX, you can just put a .zip at the end and double click it. And it's just a zip file. And you can see a whole bunch of stuff inside of it. Right? Rob Collie (00:37:23): Yeah. If you're listening, you haven't done that go right now, run don't walk, grab an Excel file or a Word file, whatever. Go and rename the XLSX or BPTX, go ahead and rename it so that it ends in .zip and then open it up and you'll be blown away. Thomas Larock (00:37:38): PowerPoint is my favorite when I have to find some unknown setting that I need and I can just search through the whole thing. Yep. Rob Collie (00:37:45): Or all the images. You want to get all the images out of the PowerPoint file. It's just a zip file that has a bunch of images in it. Right. Brian Jones (00:37:50): So I also did this for backpack. It's the same thing. You can crack open the backpack by renaming a zip file... Thomas Larock (00:37:58): An actual physical backpack? What are we... what are we talking about here? Brian Jones (00:38:03): Ah yeah. Rob Collie (00:38:03): This is the digital acetate that is over the top of the entire physical world that you aren't aware of. Thomas Larock (00:38:08): Digital acetate, that's it? That's it. That's where the podcast peaks. Right? Those two words. We're all going home now. Brian Jones (00:38:19): Yeah. No. A SQL server, there's DAC pack, which is just the, say database schema. Then there's a backpack which has the data and the schema combined. But you can, if you rename them . zip, you can crack them open to see the XML that makes up those forms. So it's not just office products. Rob Collie (00:38:37): We ended up standardizing the entire thing, but that packaging format, it was called OPC, Open Packaging Convention, or something like that. It was something that we did in partnership with a Windows team. It's part of the final ISO standard for our file format. And then there were a lot of other folks that went and used that exact same standard. Because it's a really easy way of you have a zip package. You can have a whole bunch of pieces inside of it, which are XML. And then there's this convention for how you can do relationships between the different pieces. So I can have a slide. That's an XML and it can declare relationships to all the images that it uses. And that way it's really quick, easy to know, okay, here's all the content I need to grab if I want to move pieces of it outside of the file. Rob Collie (00:39:16): So the single coolest thing I've ever done with, we'll just call it your file format Brian. We'll just pretend that it was only you working on that. Brian Jones (00:39:23): Just me yeah, I was pretty busy, but yeah. Rob Collie (00:39:27): So the very, very first version of Power Pivot, first of all, your file format, the new file format made Power Pivot possible. We needed to go and add this gigantic binary stream of compressed data and everything, everything about Power Pivot needed to be saved in the file. At the beginning of the project, everyone was saying, "Oh, no, we're going to save it as two separate files." And I'm like, "Are you guys kidding?" The Pivot cache, for instance, is saved in the same file. You can't throw a multi file solution at people and expect it to... This was actually like Manhattan project, just to get that stream saved into the same file. It was pretty crazy. However, when it was done, there was something really awesome I wasn't aware of until the very end, which was, first of all, you could open up a zip file and just tunnel down and you would find a file in there called item one.data. Rob Collie (00:40:21): Okay. That was the Power Pivot blob. That was everything about the Power Pivot thing. And it was by far the biggest thing in the file, like it was like 99% of the file size was what was there. However, as this backup, someone had decided, I had nothing to do with this, to save all of the instructions. I think it's called XML for analysis XMLA. All of the instructions that would be required to rebuild exactly that file, but without any of the actual binary data in it. So it was a very, very small amount of XML. Okay. So here's what we would do because there were no good automation, no interfaces, no APIs. If we needed to add like 500 formulas to a Power Pivot file, you could go through the UI and write those 500 formulas, type, click, type, click, type, click. Rob Collie (00:41:08): Okay. So what we would do, and my first job outside of Microsoft, is we would go in there and we would edit that XML backup and add all the formulas we wanted in it. And by the way, I would use Excel to write these formulas. I would use string concatenation and all of that kind of stuff to write these things. It was very, very, very sensitive, one character out of place in the whole thing fails. So you make those changes. You save the file, reopen it, nothing happens because it's just the backup. Okay. So then you've got to go and you've got to create a zero byte item one.data file on your desktop and you copy it into the zip file and overwrite the real item one.data, therefore deliberately corrupting the primary copy. So when you reopen the file it triggers the backup process and it rehydrates with all of your stuff, it was awesome. Rob Collie (00:41:57): And then a couple of releases of Power Pivot later, suddenly that didn't work anymore and I was really pissed. But it just really shows you, it opens up so many opportunities that you never would have expected. And even a hack like that, that's not the kind that you'd be really looking for, but the fact that something like that even happens as a result of this is really indicative of what a success it was. Brian Jones (00:42:19): Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of those things where, I love building platforms, like that's my favorite part of the job. It's all those things that you see people do that you never would have predicted. Right? That's just so exciting. PowerPoint had this huge group of folks that would go and build things like doc assembly stuff, right. Where they go and automatically build PowerPoint decks on demand, right? Based on who you're going to go and present to cause they've just shredded the thing. In fact, when we did the ISO standardization, it was a 6,000 page doc that we had to go. And we built and reviewed with a standards body and we did it over about a year. Which sounds nuts, a 6,000 page doc in about a year. And the way that we were able to do that is there was never really a 6,000 page doc. There's a database where there's a row for every single element and attribute in this, in the whole schema, that would then have the column which is the description, which would just be the word XML. Brian Jones (00:43:09): And so we could, on demand, at any point, generate whatever view or part of the doc we wanted. So we'd say, "Hey, we're going to go in now, review everything that has to do with formatting across Word, Excel and PowerPoint." And so we just click a couple buttons and the database would spit out a Word doc that was just that part. Everybody could go and edit it cause we were using the structured elements we'd added to Word, which is called content controls, which was the next version of that XML stuff that we had to deprecate. And then the process, as soon as you'd finish editing that Word doc, we just submit it back. The process would go back and shred that Word doc again and put it all back in the database. And so we really used the file format to bootstrap documenting the file format. Rob Collie (00:43:48): And then when you dump a 6,000 page document on someone, they have no choice. But to just say, yep, it looks good to us. Brian Jones (00:43:55): Well, there was a pretty, incredibly thorough review still. It was just pretty impressive. The final vote that we had in Geneva, the process leading up to that, the amount of feedback that we got. Cause basically the ISO, you can kind of think of it like the UN, you go and show up and every country has a seat, right? I mean, not everybody participates, but anybody that wants to can. And so yeah, we had to respond to thousands of comments around different pieces, things that people wanted to see changed. Rob Collie (00:44:22): Yeah. I can imagine, right. Think about it. You just said at the final vote in Geneva. That's a heavy moment man. Thomas Larock (00:44:29): Yeah. That threw me off for a second. I thought, for sure, you were talking Switzerland, but now thinking that was just a code name. Rob Collie (00:44:38): No, I think, I think he was actually in Switzerland. Brian Jones (00:44:40): In Switzerland. Rob Collie (00:44:41): Have you seen the chamber where they do these votes? It looks just like the Senate from episode one of Star Wars. It's just like that. It's pretty heavy. Brian Jones (00:44:51): The little levitating... Rob Collie (00:44:53): The floating lift. Yeah. I think they call that digital acetate. I think that's what they call that. By the way on the Excel team, the way I came to look at the new file format and the open architecture of it, again, this this will show you how quickly I had turned into the more cynic side of things. Well, okay. We're going to be changing file formats. And we're doing that for our benefit because we didn't have enough bits allocated in the 1980s version of the file format that was saved to floppy disc, as you pointed out, right. Who could ever imagine having more than 64,000 rows, it's just inconceivable or 250 columns or whatever, right.? Because we hadn't allocated that. We'd made an engineering mistake, essentially, we hadn't future-proofed. So we need to make a file format change for our benefit, right. To undo one of our mistakes. And the way I looked at it was, "Ooh, all this open file format stuff, that'll be like the 'Look, squirrel!'" To distract people and to sort of justify, while we went and did this other thing, which, ultimately it actually went pretty well. The transition for the customers actually wasn't nearly as bad, because we actually Took it seriously. Rob Collie (00:46:03): The transition for the customers actually wasn't nearly as bad because we actually took it seriously. We didn't cut any corners. We did all the right things. Brian Jones (00:46:07): Well, there were several benefits too. We were talking about all the kind of ecosystem development benefits, but the fact that the file was zipped and compressed right, it meant that the thing was smaller. And that was all of a sudden, it was no longer about floppy discs. People are sharing files on networks. And so actually being able to go and have a file that's easier to share, send over network because it's smaller was a thing. Brian Jones (00:46:26): There were a couple of things that we were able to go and highlight. There's also a pretty nice thing where it was actually more robust because it was XML, and we split it into multiple pieces of XML. It meant that even if you had bit rot, you would only lose one little piece of the file, whereas with old the binary format, you had some bit rot and the whole thing is impossible to open up.There are a couple of things that were in user benefits too, which helped. Rob Collie (00:46:50): And ultimately, on the Excel side, the user got a million row spreadsheet format and the ability to use a hell of a lot more than like 14 colors that could be used in a single spreadsheet or something. It was .like a power of two minus two, so many bizarre things. Like Excel had more colors than that, but you couldn't use more than a certain subset in a- Brian Jones (00:47:10): At a time, yeah. Rob Collie (00:47:10): -In a single file. So yeah, there were a lot of benefits. They just weren't- Brian Jones (00:47:15): It's not like it's an explicit choice. It's just that at the time somebody is implementing something, you're right in a way, assuming, "Oh, this is fine. This is enough. I'll never have to worry with this issue." Rob Collie (00:47:25): Why waste the whole byte on that? When you can cram four different settings into a single byte. If you read the old stories about Gates and Allen programming up at Harvard, they had these vicious head-to-head competitions to see who could write the compiler or the section of basic in the fewest bytes possible. This was still very much hanging over Microsoft, even the vestiges of it were still kind of hanging over us even when I arrived. But certainly in the '80s when the Excel file format was being designed for that rev, it was still very much like, "Why waste all those bits in a byte?" "Let's cap it at four bits". Thomas Larock (00:48:05): In that blog series from Sinofsky, he talks a lot about that at the early start. And I'm at a point now where he's talking a lot about the code reuse because the Excel team, the Word team, I guess PowerPoint, but all these other teams, were all dealing with, say, text. And they were all doing their own code for how that text would be displayed and shown. And Bill would be the one being like, " This is ridiculous". "We should be able to reuse the code between these products". And to me, that would just be common sense. But these groups, Microsoft just grew so rapidly so quickly, they were off on their own, and they have to ship. I ain't got time to wait around for this, for somebody to build an API, things like that. I'll just write it myself. Brian Jones (00:48:50): It's a general thing that you get as you get larger where the person in charge that can oversee everything is like, "Well, these are all my resources", and, "Wow, I don't want three groups all building the same thing". But then when you get down, there's also a reality of we're just going to have a very different view on text and text layout than Excel. And Excel is not going to say, "I want all of that code that Word uses to lay out all of their content to be running for every single cell". Right? That's just suboptimal. And so it's always this fun conversation back and forth around where do you have shared code and reuse and where do you say it's okay for this specific app to have this more optimized thing that might look the same, but in reality, it's not really the same. Rob Collie (00:49:33): Brian, do you remember the ... I'm sure you do, but I don't remember what company they were from. But at one point in this file format effort, these really high priced consultants showed up and went around and interviewed us a couple of times. Do you remember that phase? It was like- Brian Jones (00:49:51): Was that towards the end? There was a couple summary stories that were pulled together just to talk about the overall processes. It was actually after the standardization. Rob Collie (00:49:58): I remember this being at the point in time where it was still kind of a question. whether we should do it. Brian Jones (00:50:02): I don't remember that. Rob Collie (00:50:04): The thing I remember really vividly is a statement that Chris Pratley would make over and over again, this encapsulated it for me. I came around to seeing it his way, which was the file format isn't the thing. That's not the moat. The thing that makes Office unique is the behaviors of the application. It's not the noun of the file format. It's the verb of what happens in the app. It's instructed to think that even if you took exactly the Excel team today, every single person that's already worked on it, and said, "Hey, you have to go rebuild Excel exactly". There's no way that version of Excel would be compatible with the one we have now. It would drift so much. Rob Collie (00:50:43): You could even have access to all the same specs. We would even cheat and say, "Look, you can have access to every single spec ever written". So? It was clearly someone had thought it was time to bring in like a McKinsey. They were all well dressed. They were all attractive. They were all a little too young to be the ones sort of making these decisions. It was just really weird to have them show up, three people in your office. Like, "Okay, I'll tell you what's going on". Brian Jones (00:51:11): I can totally imagine. It's funny I don't remember that. There were several rounds of analysis on how we were doing it, what we're doing and making sure we were doing it the right way. But yeah, Chris is spot on. I mean, your point about rebuilding it, that's essentially what we've been going through for the past five plus years around our web app. It's a lot of work. Unfortunately, we can't let it drift. The expectation from everybody is, "Hey, I learned the Wind 32 version. When I go to the web, I want it to feel the same. I don't want to feel like I'm now using some different app." Rob Collie (00:51:44): What an amazing, again, like a Manhattan project type of thing, this notion of rewriting Excel to run on the web and be compatible. Brian Jones (00:51:55): Yeah, with 30 years of innovation. Rob Collie (00:51:56): Yeah. That started in the 2007 release. Excel services, the first release of Excel services was 2007. And this whole thing about shared code, like what features, what functions of Excel, what pieces of it were going to be rewritten to be quote unquote "shared code"? And shared code meant it was actually server safe, which none of regular desktop Excel written in the early '80s, still carrying around assembly in certain places, assembly code of all things, right? Excel was not server safe. It was about as far from server safe as you could get. And so to rewrite this so ambitious without breaking anything. Oh my God. What a massive ... This dates back, gosh, more than 15 years. Brian Jones (00:52:45): Yeah. I'd say like the first goals around it were a bit different, right? It wasn't a web version of Excel. It was like BI scenarios and how can we have dashboards and Excel playing a role in dashboards. But yeah, I'd say since I joined, it was probably maybe a half a year or a year into when I joined, we just made the decision to shift a huge chunk of our funding to the web app. It was just clear that we need to make even more rapid progress. If you go, we have a site where you can go and see all the features that are rolling out there. It's incredible. And it's just because of the depth of the product. "Wow that's so many features you've done. You must be almost done". But then you look at everything else that's still isn't done yet. Brian Jones (00:53:23): Now thankfully, we're getting to the point where we can look at telemetry and say, "Hey, we've got most people covered." Most users, when we look at what they do in Windows, they could use the web app and shouldn't notice a difference. But there still is a set of things that we're going to keep churning through. So that'll continue to be a huge, huge investment for us. But yeah, the shared code strategy, we have an iPhone version, an iPad version an Android version. We've got Excel across all platforms. And because of the shared code, when we add new features, the feature crew that's working on that, they need to have a plan for how they're going to roll out across all those platforms, clearly levered shared code. But they also need to think through user experience and stuff like that too. Clearly a feature on a phone is going to behave differently than it's going to behave on a desktop. Rob Collie (00:54:05): Part of me, just like, kind of wants to just say, "I don't even believe that you've pulled that off, there's no way". It's kind of like, I've never looked at the Android version, and until I look at the Android version, I'm just going to assume it's not real. This is why it's one of the hardest things imaginable to have a single code base with all these different user experience, just fundamental paradigms of difference between these platforms. Like really? Come on. Brian Jones (00:54:34): It was a massively ambitious project. Mac shifted over maybe three years ago. And that's when, all of a sudden, in addition to a bunch of just features that people have been asking for that we'd never been able to get to, the massive one there was we were able to roll out the co-authoring multiplayer mode for Excel. Rob Collie (00:54:50): Multiplayer. Brian Jones (00:54:52): That's the term I like for co-authoring. It's more fun. Rob Collie (00:54:55): Yeah. It's like MMO for spreadsheets. Brian Jones (00:54:57): Yes. We were able to get that for the Mac. I mean, all of our platforms. One of us can be on an iPad, an iPhone, the web app, and we'll all see what we're doing in real time, making edits and all of that stuff. That alone, if you want to talk about massive projects, 30 years of features and innovation, basically that means we had to go and teach Excel how to communicate to another version of Excel and be very specific about, "This is what I did." "Here's the action I took." And that is massive. There are thousands and thousands of things you can do in the product. So getting it so that all of those versions are in sync the entire time, and so we're all seeing the exact same results of calc and all of that. That itself was a huge, massive project. Rob Collie (00:55:37): Take this as the highest form of praise when I say I don't buy it. I can't believe it. Brian Jones (00:55:44): I hope everybody's okay that we just talked for like an hour on just like listening to somebody at a high school reunion, I think, or something. Is this like me talking about how great I played in that one game? And you're like, "Yeah, that was a great basket". Rob Collie (00:55:54): Yeah. "Man, my jumper was on". the thing that's hard to appreciate, I think, is that you got to come back to the fact that we're talking about the tools that everyone in the world uses every day, that we rely on. And I think being gone from Microsoft for the last 12 years, I'm able to better appreciate that sense of wonder. This isn't just you and I catching up, I don't think. People enjoy, for good reason I think, hearing the stories of how these things came to be. People don't know by default how hard it was to get to a million rows in the file format. If you're like a robot, you're like, "I don't care how I got here. I just care what it is", then you're not listening to this show. We call it data with a human element. Robots can exit stage left. I think you should feel zero guilt. This isn't just self-indulgence. Brian Jones (00:56:55): Well, on the off chance everybody else ... I've listened to a lot of Rob's other podcasts, and they're awesome. So if you're bored with this one, it's okay. Go check out some of the other ones. They'r

Sarah Jaquette Ray (pictured) teaches at America's Humboldt State University and has written the wonderful book: "A Field Guide to Climate Anxiety: how to keep your cool on a warming planet". Sarah was Climate Conversation's first international guest and so the interview was, for me, something of an experiement; an exepriement that worked quite well, despite a few hiccoughs, problems we overcome thanks to Sarah's generousity, kindness and patience. However, we were not wrestling with just the technology between Sarah and I, for also standinfg between us and an even better interview, was my Aphasia, the result of a brain injury received in a road collision nearly 25 years ago. Despite my personal limatations, Sarah sailed through the interview teling me about some of the articles published under her name: one in the Los AngelesTimes entitled "Is climate anxiety bad for the planet?"; another in a different publication that discusses "The New Faces of Climate Justice"; and then aother story in the Scientific American headed: "Climate Anxiety Is an Overwhelmingly White Phenomenon". Climate Conversations encourages listeners to enjoy "Music for a Warming World".

How to Find Ideal Clients With Paul Kennedy  We all have clients. Sometimes we have great ones, and we call them our ideal clients. Other times we have some of the bottom-of-the-barrel, less-than-ideal clients. It might be a bit noisy or a bit squeaky, and frustratingly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease a lot of the time. We've got Paul Kennedy from PGV Consulting, and we'll talk about how to find ideal clients and remove the terrible ones. Get more tips on how to find ideal clients at dorksdelivered.com.au How Do You Identify An Ideal Client How do you identify a bad client? Start With Your Why Paul: I'd like to start with the “Why” and focus on what we have previously discussed about Simon Sinek. I love what Simon Sinek is about, and most of your listeners will be familiar with him. Paul: If you find out your “Why”, your purpose, why you're doing what you're doing, it could be a mixture of both business aspirations and personal ones. Particularly if you're self-employed, it's good to blend the two because your personal life and your business life have to live in harmony with each other. Paul: If you focus on your “Why”, it gives you your passion as to why you're really doing this. For instance, I'm an accountant by qualification. That doesn't necessarily mean that I actually really want to do accounting, especially a few years down the track. My “Why” was not to be an accountant, and that kind of led me to where I am. Paul: Working out your “Why” makes the other questions—your “What”, “How”, “Where”, and “When” so much easier. It's like picking up the correct piece of the jigsaw first. Once you've done that, the rest of it follows much more easily. Paul: Most of us meet and start off by asking, "What are you doing?" In my case, I'd perhaps start telling you about accounting, but it's not where I really want to spend my time and perhaps not where other people want to spend theirs. Nirvana: Ideal Clients Seek You Out Paul: I've got a few beliefs. One of them is Nirvana. It is when you get your business to the point where your ideal clients are actually seeking you out. Paul: Once you've reached Nirvana, it means you're in a very privileged position. If somebody is looking for somebody in your field and they know what you can do and what you've done for others, they will come to you and it won't be all about price. It will actually be because they want Josh Lewis to look after their business, their IT. You change the relationship, and it becomes one where they actually want you. It's not an argument or discussion over price. Have a Business Plan Paul: I am also a great believer in a business plan. I think it's very unwise to start a business unless you have a plan. It doesn't mean you have to be fixated on it, but it gives you some sort of general direction to where you want your business and career to go. Once you've started on that journey, that will lead you to who your ideal clients are and what makes them ideal. How Do You Identify a Bad Client? Who is Your Ideal Client? Paul: Identify the criteria and the things that make up your ideal client—the people who value, respect, and actually act on your advice. Paul: A non-ideal client would be someone who neither respects, values, nor acts on your advice. They might still be paying you, but from your perspective, it would be very frustrating to give them your best advice but they do not actually act on it. Think About Your Criteria Paul: I encourage people to think through what are the criteria of your ideal clients. It is actually quite helpful to spend a bit of time identifying the traits of non-ideal clients.  Paul: I often encourage people to think of a situation they might have had where they won two clients, they're driving home, and they're pretty happy and excited. They're particularly excited about winning Client A. They're a bit lukewarm and cool about having Client B.  Paul: I encourage people to think through what were the traits of Client A that got you excited, and what were the traits of Client B that made you feel a bit cool about it (I've won them, but I'm not sure this is going to go the way I hope it does)? The more you can drill down on that, the more it will help you identify the clients you want and those you don't want. Should You Keep a Non-Ideal Client? If you've just started in business, the expenses are being covered, and there's food on the table, is it okay to stick with bad clients if removing them will mean that you're no longer financially healthy? Paul: We obviously need to be and want to be financially healthy. It perhaps comes down to timing as to how long you might bite your tongue and continue working with somebody who's not an ideal client. How do you deal with a non-ideal client? Think About Increasing the Price Paul: All of us in business invariably have some clients that we perhaps don't want. You can have a very direct conversation and say, 'Look, perhaps I'm not the best person for you.' We could do it by increasing your price to be unattractive to people who are not ideal clients. That's something that we've learnt, so we changed around our business model from charging per hour to charging a flat rate per month.  In 2009, we're charging $55 or $85 an hour. In 2010, we changed the business model around to per month. One of our clients didn't want to pay per month. I told them that with the number of hours they're doing with us, they're going to be saving money in three months on average.  But they were not interested, so I went from $85 to $110 to $150 to $200 an hour before they agreed to go per month. We were making heaps less money, but they were fitting in with the model and how we wanted our business to work. And they were happier with that because then it was back to less than what they were originally paying, so it worked out for everyone. Paul: If you really don't believe that this is the sort of business you want to be working with a particular client, increasing your price so that you're unattractive is one way of doing it. Be Upfront Paul: It's not a bad idea to be even a bit more upfront and simply say, 'I don't think I'm the right person for you.'  You were talking about different ways to terminate a contract with a client. We've done this before as well. We've noticed that the businesses that we're working with are getting bigger and bigger. One of them was going in a different direction and was more interested in running a home network for the 40 employees as opposed to a business network. We said that's not really what we do and we're more than happy to put you in contact with someone that works with businesses that have the same ethos. We found that was a professional way to break into that closing doors should situations change. Is there any way you shouldn't terminate a contract?  Paul: I do it as pleasantly as possible. I think that we need to be honest, not everybody is going to work with everybody. Otherwise, you'd end up marrying everybody. Paul: You can't be everything to everybody. You shouldn't try to be. If you do, you'd probably come to grief and a bit unstuck. Be Innovative Paul: I have a client with whom I've done quite a bit of work over the years. My role was to identify people that I knew that represented his or his company's ideal client criteria and to introduce the two. They would host a high-quality event, and I would invite these people along and learn a bit about each other. One thing would lead to another and invariably business. Paul: In doing so, I was introducing my client to his prospective client, who loved what my client did, but because they were spread across Australia, it was just going to be prohibitive. Paul: After I've done my initial introduction, my client and the prospective client sat down and talked it through. The latter said that they love what my client does—bringing our senior management together for a day and a half once a month for 10 months—but the cost is much more than they are prepared to pay and bringing together the senior management from across Australia once a month is really overwhelming for us. Paul: This happened 5 years ago, so I was a bit surprised that my client hadn't thought of doing it by Zoom. Five years later, they are still doing business. The client is delighted. They've achieved it at a much lower rate, and they've managed to do it without disrupting their business every month when they bring a group of senior executives together.  Paul: It's often not what you do. With my client, all they really changed was how they did it. I can't really take the credit, but my client said that I have changed the criteria of their ideal client. They see themselves delivering what they do—business coaching—to a much larger audience than what they previously have perceived. I'm a great believer in knowing who your ideal clients are, who you would like them to be, and who they could be.  Look At the Good Side of Things Paul: I think with COVID-19 essentially everybody has recognised that we can do so much. What we were previously doing physically at one location we can actually do via Zoom. COVID-19 has actually accelerated much of the change that was going on. In business, being able to do things through Zoom is awesome. It's not about the lack of resources; it's more about being resourceful with what you've got. That's a big thing that we bring to businesses. People don't want to use the XYZ tool and aren't ready for that. Most of the time, when you push into a corner like what COVID-19 did for a lot of businesses, you find out that these tools aren't that bad. They're not the enemy, and they're going to help you out. They're going to take you off the road, and you're going to be significantly more utilised throughout the day. Some people drive. I have a friend that drives an hour and 40 minutes to work every morning, five days a week. It's ridiculous. When his business went into COVID lockdown, he found that he had more time for his family. He spent an extra 40 minutes with his family in the morning and an extra 40 minutes in the afternoon, and they were happy but he was still spending an extra 2 hours a day at work. It's definitely a blessing in disguise.  Paul: Personally, I'm not particularly good around the technology side, but you obviously have taken to it like a duck to water. I think that's a wonderful gift. Paul: Technology is your friend, and I'm learning that myself and enjoying working with people who have that outlook and have that ability, which I very much respect.  It should sit there like electricity is your friend. We don't need to know how it works. We don't need to know if it's AC or DC coming through on high voltage lines. It just matters that we need to flip the switch and it works, and that should be what all business owners want. Ensure Your Ideal Clients Know Who to Call (You) Paul: If you turn the switch on and it doesn't work, even though you might not know how it works, you at least know who to call. Henry Ford said that he doesn't have to know everything. He just has to know who to contact to make sure that he can achieve everything. Paul: That's very much what I'm about. I believe in the business plan and in knowing your ideal client and who they are. Make Your Ideal Clients Remember You Paul: What I do is I work with my client in identifying a number of activities. They could be one-on-one introductions, giving presentations, writing articles, whatever's right for my client so that we are constantly getting them in front of their ideal clients. Paul: I think some people go way over the top. They're excellent at what they do, but I think they significantly overcommunicate to the point where their target market is annoyed and say, 'If I get another email from Paul:  Kennedy, I'll scream.' You don't want to do that. Paul: On the other hand, you don't want to go to the other extreme where your target market says, 'I've got an email from this guy Paul:  Kennedy, and I don't think I even know him.' You've got to be just right. It'll be different for every business, but you have to make sure that when your ideal client has a need, you are the one they think of and they know how to contact you.  Build a Business Development and Marketing Calendar Paul: Identify those five to eight activities and then build a marketing and business development calendar that bullet points down which activities you are going to do each month. They are all different because there is no single silver bullet. I don't believe you could do it all via LinkedIn or do it all via one-on-one introduction. You need to be doing a variety of activities that are getting you in front of these ideal clients and you need to do it consistently, not just once. Paul: Get yourself to the point where you've built your brand amongst your target markets or your ideal clients so that when the time is right for them, not when the time is right for you, they keep thinking, 'I need to go and talk to Josh at Dorks Delivered.' I agree. We call it the digital fridge magnet. When you look at the plumber or the nice pizza place around the corner, if you don't have that on the fridge and you forget, a lot of the time you end up going somewhere else. You want to be in front of them enough but you're not annoying them and pestering them. Paul: Absolutely. I've got an excellent database of people I know and who know me. Some of the people are so good at their social media, but personally, I think they do too much of it to the point where I have it set up so that it's automatically put into a subfolder in their name because I respect what they do, but I physically cannot consume everything that they're churning out. It could be one video a day and I just physically don't have that time. Paul: I think so much of that good content that they're sending out goes to waste. In my case, it goes automatically into the subfolders. Sometimes I get to look at it, most of the time not. These people are so good at what they do, but it's actually going to waste. Paul: On the other hand, you have the extreme of people who don't communicate at all. I think finding that right balance somewhere in the middle so that you're there enough, but not to the point where you are an annoyance, is the way to go. How Do You Avoid Losing a Prospective Client?  Do you think you can get too close to an ideal client and break the relationship? Do you think you can do things that are too friendly and they think that's weird? What situations could get you too close? What are the Don'ts to make sure that you don't destroy a relationship with an ideal client? Remain Professional at All Times Paul: I do think you must at all times remain professional. You don't want to get to the point where the relationship has become casual and taken for granted. If there is an issue, either party might get reluctant to raise it because of the closeness so it festers away. Equally, if you do get too close or your relationship has become too entrenched with that one individual in the company, what happens if that person moves on and he's no longer there?  Paul: It's a fine line. On one hand, you obviously want the relationship to be a healthy one, a productive one that works cooperatively for all parties. It's important to make sure that it always remains professional, but you don't take each other for granted and that you deliver what you say you are going to deliver. Don't get to the point where you're essentially living in each other's pockets. I think there is a dividing line and it's important to keep that. I know one time that I felt a bit uncomfortable. We don't work with this company anymore. We were quite close to them, and they would have parties and I'd bring along a keg of beer to celebrate. There was this one Christmas party in particular. I was there with a keg of beer and then a few hours went by, they shut the gates. I thought that's a bit weird, and then a few of the key decision-makers in the business started smoking a joint. They offered me to join them, but I'm not that guy. I said no judgement, but I obviously did. They felt comfortable enough to do that in front of me, but I did not feel comfortable being around that. Paul: I think that's an example of where getting too close can cause a bit of grief and can actually ruin the relationship. Planning, Growth, and Value Tell us about PGV Consulting and how that works with businesses that are listening and how they can leverage your services to be able to help them find ideal clients. Paul: I'm an accountant by qualification, but I don't do any accounting. I just wasn't very good. In the last 25 years, I've been really about business planning, business development, connections, and introductions. Paul: PGV stands for planning, growth, and value. Planning Paul: I like to begin with the business plan. Otherwise, it's a bit like going and trying to put a house on a roof before you've put the foundations down. I see the business plan as being the foundation, and it's important that you do that. As part of that process, you go through all the normal things like mission, vision, strengths, SWOT analysis and so on, but I really like to drill down on ideal clients and equally non-ideal clients. Growth Paul: If you've reached Nirvana, your ideal clients seek you out, sadly, non-ideal clients will also seek you out. When that happens, it's always good to know your competitors. Refer your non-ideal clients to them. Anything that can slow a competitor down is possibly a good thing. Paul: Work out what activities are going to engage you with those ideal clients on a consistent and ongoing basis so that they get to know you and particularly what you can do for them.  Paul: People can engage my time by booking me for a certain number of hours per month where I work with them initially on the plan, if they don't have one, and then actually implementing the plan and particularly getting them in front of their ideal clients: people I know and who know me. Value Paul: I have a wonderful database that's very up to date and very comprehensive. I go through that when I'm working with a client in my database to see who I know that meets my client's ideal client criteria. And then we set about a series of activities, such as one-on-one introductions and presentations, so that one gets to learn the story of the other and see if they can do business together. I think that's very valuable to any business. I guess a lot of people out there claim to do similar things, but I think what's big and promising is you've got a client base where people can hit the ground running. You know these people, and being able to find the right person that fits your business means that it can be a few hours that you're spending with them and they might be coming out on the other side with maybe not a client, but at least an introduction to an ideal client. Paul: A person or an organisation might not necessarily be an ideal client themselves, but they may know your ideal client and be able to introduce you or where you work in partnership, alliances, etc. I'm also a great believer in that so long as it works for all the parties involved. You don't really want to be doing work with people who are frustrating, not ideal, can't pay your bill, don't actually act on your advice. Paul: Do anything you can do to avoid that so that you're always working in your circle of people who do actually value what you're about and actually act on it and are able and willing to pay for your services. 'How to Find the Ideal Clients' by Paul Kennedy Paul: I wrote an article some time ago called 'How to Find the Ideal Clients.' If it's of interest to any of your listeners, I'm very happy for them to have a copy. It was published in Spark Magazine about 4 years ago. [insert link to article] Paul: Also, with the new financial year, I think it's the perfect time to sit down and revisit your business plan if you have one or build one if you don't. Identify who your ideal clients are, work out what those actions and activities are going to be that you will progressively unfold over the next 12 to 18 months, and consistently deliver it and get your story in front of those people you want to have as your clients. I'm sure you'll find that your business grows the way you want it to. I love going back to the business plans that I've done in the past, and I can look through some of the stupid ideas I had and some of the amazing things that I've been able to accomplish to sort of put things into perspective. Sometimes we are too busy running the rat race to realise how far we've run. Recommended Book: Start With Why by Simon Sinek Paul: I think that really takes you back to where we began: Start with “Why”. As you go home every night, you're pretty excited and pleased about it because you've actually helped the sort of people you want to be doing business with. You can see the difference that you're bringing about in their business, and that's the motivation to get up the following day and go back and do it again. You took the words out of my mouth. I was about to ask about your favourite book, but I think you've answered that question perfectly. Start With Why [italicize] is definitely up there if it's not your favourite. Start with your “Why”. The big thing for me is to try to remove your business from it. That's what I did. Look at why you do what you do outside of the business. What is the driving motivators for you? What would you do for free? If you were retired, where would you stand and how would your day look? If your business fits into that, awesome. If it doesn't, make it fit into that. What is Freedom to You? What is business built freedom to you? What would you say is the vehicle of business and how does that bring freedom to you? Paul: It's spending your time doing what you want to do, enjoying it and seeing the rewards. That kind of almost defines your “Why” for each of us, doesn't it? It will be different for everybody, but business freedom is getting your business to the point where you want it to be and where your ideal clients are actually coming to you and that you can see that you've created that.  Paul: I can see that you're getting your business to that point where the sort of people you want are approaching you. And at the end of each day, you've built your business so that it's delivering the outcome that you want.  If you have any feedback or any questions, feel free to jump across iTunes. Leave us some love, give us some feedback. Paul will be in our Facebook group where you can ask different questions. Stay good and stay healthy.

In this episode we review 'Look Back' a new one shot by Tatsuki Fujimoto. VIDEO LINK: https://youtu.be/Tocw_qhgpNo

Nothing quite beats a drive into the Sussex countryside with the promise of real ale and plenty of it at the end of my journey. I am quite envious of the passion and dedication that has inspired an incredible operation that is known as Hepworth Brewery.  'Look after the planet its the only one with beer'  says Andy Hepworth the Founding member of this incredibly sustainable brewery.  And as for the ale .... join me Karen Morton on the taste test and get to know some hot new 'light' ales as well as hearty traditional originals.  Paul Couchman otherwise known as the Regency Cook takes us back to picnic foods that could be found on lazy days on Jane Austins lawn. Anyone for pie and ale?  Step this way! Please subscribe, like, share and get in touch to tell us your food stories.

The government's response to the 2017 Mycoplasma bovis outbreak was poorly managed and inflicted significant and lasting trauma on farmers whose stock was culled, a University of Otago study has found.M.bovis was first detected in New Zealand in 2017, after a large number of cattle on a South Canterbury dairy herd began displaying symptoms of a novel disease. In May 2018, the government and industry bodies made the decision to attempt a world-first eradication of M.bovis.Figures from Ministry for Primary Industries' (MPI) eradication programme show as of 17 June this year, 266 farms have tested positive for the disease and more than 171,000 cattle have been culled.Researchers from Otago University's department of general practice and rural health have just completed a two-year study on the emotional, social and psychological impacts of M.bovis on Southern farmers and farming communities.Study lead Dr Fiona Doolan-Noble said a dominant theme of the research was the intrusive, impractical and inhumane nature of MPI's programme in which local knowledge, expertise and pragmatism were ignored in favour of inefficient bureaucratic processes.Extensive interviews with affected farmers in Southland and Otago revealed the enduring emotional cost of a "badly planned and poorly executed process", leaving farming families feeling isolated, bewildered, and powerless.Others in the rural community, such as local veterinarians, were left feeling their expertise was undervalued and their potential to positively contribute to the management of the outbreak disregarded, she said."These vets were really willing and wanting to work with MPI and yet some of them talk about being completely cut out of the loop ... they also had to bare witness to a lot of human and animal suffering."Farmers describe experiencesDoolan-Noble said during the research, farmers described the damage to their sense of identity and the forced separation from typical farming practices and seasonal rhythms as they transition into an incursion management process overseen by what the study described as an ill-prepared government agency.One dairy farmer described how a slaughter team arrived early and started killing cows while he was still in the milking shed."So [MPI] decided to start killing them on the farm. And I said, 'Look, that's a bit rough'. But they said, 'No, that's what's going to happen'."So, this truck arrives, from this pet food outfit ... this guy pulls up and just shoots 10 of them, in the yard. Cuts their throats... I come [out] there, there was hysterics, there were staff crying. I just said to the guy: 'You can't do this. This is just heartless'."Another farmer said he had quit the land because of the impact of the elimination programme. He could not remember the birth of a child because of the stress at the time.A family of beef farmers who experienced a total cull told researchers they were impacted by slow MPI decision making, resulting in their farm over-wintering too many cattle during a very wet season."The animal welfare of the animals was not good at all... Because they were on very small pads in mud up to their haunches… we had two or three pass away on our pad because the conditions were so rough," they said.The study found when farmers were placed under restricted movement controls, known as Notices of Direction, farming families effectively lost control of the running of their farm while remaining responsible for the welfare of their remaining stock."It says in the notice, in the NoD [biosecurity notice] that we are responsible for everything on the property. So, we're responsible for the health and wellbeing of all the animals on the property, even though there's people making decisions for us," one farmer said.The situation was compounded by poor communication, lack of clarity about animal testing regimes, delays in providing results, indecision regarding stock management, authoritarian and at times brutal decision-maki...

Ocean FM Sport pays tribute to the 2020 women's Connacht Club championship title successes for Eoghan Rua of Sligo (Junior) and Glencar/Manor of Leitrim (intermediate).

Pat Kordyback, lead singer of multi platinum pop band Stereos, takes us behind the group's new track 'Look Good'!  Pat also chats the return of the band after a lengthy hiatus, how he has grown as a songwriter, writing goal songs for the IIHF competitive teams, an upcoming album, and much more!! ----- Listen to Stereos on Spotify @   Follow Stereos on IG @   ----- Pick up Desert Tiger Merch @   Follow Colton Gee & Desert Tiger   -----

David Eells - 6/13/21  Death in the Leftist Capital / Trumps Return Timothy Dixon - 5/24/21 (David's notes in red) In my dream I was walking along the Potomac River in Washington DC. As I was walking I heard a rattling sound; like a rattlesnake. I was questioning in my spirit, “What is this that I am hearing?” (Nurses describe the terminal respiratory secretions, also known as a “death rattle.” A death rattle is a distinctive sound that a person may make as they are coming to the end of their life and may no longer be able to swallow or cough effectively enough to clear their saliva.) I felt such trouble in my heart as I walked around the area. In my dream the big bridge crossing the river was not there, it was gone…  (The broad way out, mans way out, of this death is not available to most.)    I was walking on the shore and… to my right, which would be South, would have been where the Lincoln Memorial and the mall entrance would be. (They were both gone.) (The forefathers ways and leadership are not remembered) I continued walking and and as I got into the city limits of DC, I crossed the Potomac River and I started walking across the national mall.  There I saw a man sitting and looking up towards the capitol building. He had long, gray hair and he resembled an ancient Native American Indian. (Representing the original owners of this land, which was taken away from them by legalized crime. In parallel, the Lord gave this land to our forefathers who gave us the Constitution and a more moral system of governance, but it was stolen by the DS satanist criminals. Even the Churches were stolen by a corrupt bunch of spiritual criminals who do not pattern themselves after scripture.)   I knew he was a prophet in his time. His back was to me and he asked me, “Can you hear? Can you hear the death rattles?” This question caught me off guard because I didn't know what to think. I didn't understand what was going on. I asked this native prophet, “Excuse me, what are you saying? Is there judgment here in DC; in Washington?”… He said, “You can hear!” (Notice, it changed from, “Can you hear?” to, “You can hear!”) (You can hear the death rattles prophesying the death of a criminal government.) And when he said this, I remember it stuck out to me. He was telling me something that I had already heard before. I had heard the death rattles before. He said, “You can hear the death rattles. The ‘great spirit' has come down!” (The Lord is coming to judge the Edomites who factioned against their own brethren in government and church. Deb Horton just got this word in our morning prayer meeting. Isa 63:1-4  Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, marching in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.  2  Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winevat?  3  I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the peoples there was no man with me: yea, I trod them in mine anger, and trampled them in my wrath; and their lifeblood is sprinkled upon my garments, and I have stained all my raiment.  4  For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.) This confused me. I wanted to know if we worshiped the same God. I asked him, “Do you mean the Spirit of God?” and he answered and said, “He's the only Great Spirit.” In my dream I didn't understand why it was a Native American sitting there. He was so focused on the death rattles. I could hear the sound of the death rattles all through the city. I could feel an angelic spirit amidst the judgment that was all around us. I could feel the reverence and power of the hands of God; the angels of death and of judgment. I could hear the sound all through the city and it was all around us. I sensed that this Indian recognized the power that was there because it had been part of his culture. It was as if he had wisdom about our current time because he experienced something similar long ago. He was a very wise-looking man. (Our early wise men have been ignored.) I knew this native prophet, which is the only way I know to describe him, was a man that could sense the strong presence of and had an understanding of what he called, “The Great Spirit" and what I called the Alpha the Omega; the Almighty God.  …The American Indians have an understanding… of faith that is true and spiritual but they don't explain it like we do in our English language and sometimes it can be confusing to the listener. …They do not explain things like the American or English preachers do. …and this prophet was totally out of place standing in my current time but I knew he was something from an ancient time. This man represented the voice of the prophets (which is who our early father were) and his message was that judgment by death has come instantly and run throughout the land. Judgment has come against the wicked but not against God's true people. It's for all the politicians who chose evil in various multiple states. I knew, supernaturally, that this Native American was a messenger of the Lord in my dream… I sensed that the judgment that's been placed on America, especially on Washington DC, is because of what was done to the native prophets on American soil. It began with them being forced to leave their traditions and their faith and their land. Sickness and disease came upon them and many died… (The leadership of the early settlers provided the American Indians with blankets purposely infested with small pox in order to cull the Native population so that they could confiscate their land and kill them off as a people.)  He was speaking to the Great Spirit of God, in my dream, as he was sitting there in a portal of time. He was saying, "They did this to us and now they're doing it to you.” (In other words the DS are spreading plague, especially through the vac/cines to depopulate us but the Lord is using it to depopulate them.) I could see that they had already, once, done this to the American Indian people; to steal the land and that is why he was sitting there at this gateway… this portal of time. He was saying they did this to us and now they're gonna do it to you again! I needed to confirm what he meant so I asked, “So you mean death is on the politicians in DC? He said, “Yes. The Great Spirit has brought death rattles…”  I then saw a darkness that the physical eye could not see. It began to move like a dark cloud. The Native American was sitting on a sidewalk at a gated area just off the street that led to the White House and the Capitol building towards those same steps that have been in many of my dreams. He asked again, “Do you hear the death rattles and it was established in my spirit in the dream that we were talking about the same God. There was no mistake that this man was an ancient American prophet of God from of old. He had come through time, in a vision, through a dream to speak to me. And I had a supernatural revelation that the evil spirit that had motivated the politicians in this Capitol Building to attack our freedom, was the same spirit that took out the tribes who worshipped the Great Spirit… The same evil spirit that stomped them out to take away their freedom and blamed it on something else… was the same spirit. …This same evil spirit is the satanic Baal god that the Lord recently called a Dagon spirit; a god of the Philistines. (The DS are learning that the Christians God is stronger than theirs so they desire to kill all Christians. 1Sa 5:2  And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.  3  And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of Jehovah. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.  4  And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of Jehovah; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands lay cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him. ... 7  And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us; for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god.) …It's here… The death rattles are hitting the Capitol… and judgment has been coming for years. It has now hit the city says the Lord of Hosts. As the dream was ending I saw the darkness in the Spirit that you couldn't see with your eyes moving among the death rattles through DC; moving to the political arena. It was not just the Washington DC area, but it also had an authority in Portland Oregon. People started having problems and instantly passed away. Judgment had hit the political arena. it reminded me of the death angel in Exodus that came to claim the firstborn of the Egyptian people. People literally began falling over dead. Some fell over their desks inside the Capitol. I knew, in my spirit, that President Trump is going to come back; just as the children were delivered at the Red Sea. We will be delivered!  Link: https://youtu.be/qXUQ2wMZU6I   The First of Many Deaths are Coming (350 Million) Liberty (Spirit Move Ministry) - 5/17/21 (David's notes in red) (Eve's note about this prophecy: I asked the Lord if we should share this Word and dream with the brethren of UBM and received by faith at random Lam. 2:13. My finger was on the phrase, “I testify unto thee!”. (This text is a lamentation over the fallen leadership of God's people, apostate Jerusalem, which also led the body astray and their destruction at the hands of DS Babylon.) Lam. 2:13 (11-17 in context) Mine eyes do fail with tears, my heart is troubled; My liver is poured upon the earth, because of the destruction of the daughter of my people, Because the young children and the sucklings swoon in the streets of the city. 12 They say to their mothers, Where is grain and wine? When they swoon as the wounded in the streets of the city, When their soul is poured out into their mothers bosom. 13 What shall I testify unto thee? what shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? What shall I compare to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? For thy breach is great like the sea: who can heal thee? 14 Thy prophets have seen for thee false and foolish visions; And they have not uncovered thine iniquity, to bring back thy captivity, But have seen for thee false oracles and causes of banishment. 15 All that pass by clap their hands at thee; They hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem,'saying , Is this the city that men called The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? 16 All thine enemies have opened their mouth wide against thee; They hiss and gnash the teeth; they say, We have swallowed her up; Certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it. 17 Jehovah hath done that which he purposed; he hath fulfilled his word that he commanded in the days of old; He hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: And he hath caused the enemy to rejoice over thee; he hath exalted the horn of thine adversaries.  We are only sharing this portion from the YouTube video because that is all the Lord wanted for us to hear and understand…) Liberty's Prophetic word from the Lord:  “The first of many deaths are coming. More is on the way; more death and destruction as I prepare to do a mighty work on the earth. Many deaths are coming. (These will be physical deaths and spiritual deaths) There are many deaths coming in all different forms as my manifested glory goes forward. This will be a side effect of the kingdom of God rising and the kingdom of darkness falling. There is a death coming but many more are coming behind it. There's things I will be allowing on the earth to bring my people closer to me and to woo the unsaved into my presence. The unsaved will literally have nowhere to turn but to the light of Christ as I am preparing the earth for the final outpouring, hearts will come in in droves; looking for help, deliverance and hope in the midst of despair. There are times I have to allow despair to woo people in. It is not a terrible thing; it is a beautiful thing. Some people can only be brought up out of the pit this way. They will not receive me without there being many spiritual and physical deaths. The Body of Christ must be ready to receive these souls. They must be ready to manifest the Presence; because the Presence is what's going to woo them in. My Presence is where perfect love is and perfect hope. They will need this perfect love and this perfect hope. (It will be our job to bring it in; to build it; to release it.) This is what I'm preparing the Body of Christ; for a death is coming and many more.”  Then he reminded me and he said, “Remember the dream I gave you last August …The one with the death count?” and I said, “Yes I do.” and the Lord said, “This is what that dream was about.” (…you better pay attention… because He said, “I'm real. The Bible is real. Hell and Heaven are real.” But in the midst of this word there is so much hope because the Lord is saying, “Although these things must take place; It's for My purpose and My kingdom.” So we have to know in our hearts that there's going to be so much fruit from the despair and the destruction.)… I had asked the Lord back in August of 2020, when the death count was reported as rising from CV-19, “What's happening here? How many are gonna die in the midst of this?”… Then the Lord gave me this dream: In the dream there was a rolodex right in front of me and as I was looking at it, the rolodex first read, “2.5 million.” In my heart, in the dream, I knew what He was saying, “2.5 million deaths”.  But then something was happening in the Spirit. Something was changing. I don't know what all was going on in the midst of it but, it flipped and the rolodex flipped to 3.5 million and I was like, “Oh dear God!… Then it flipped one more time and it landed on a final number which read… 350 million people. Boom.  (This could be deaths world wide from the va/cc/ines plague. Or it could include the deaths from the result of war between the DS and the allies.) Dream over. So I got up and I knew what he told me. I knew what he was saying and I sat down with him and I wrote it down and I said, Lord… this can't be real. Is this what you're telling me? Is this an answer to my question and he said, “Yes.” And I said, “God! How is that even plausible? And, at the time, he did not answer me but He let me know there would be 350 million deaths. (This is probably a world wide death count and it could be coming quickly as more and more people are taking the jab and the passing months bring the count up geometrically.) Link to You Tube Video:  https://youtu.be/Vy6q6ggQzpw      The Winged Destroyer Brings Judgment and Death Marianna Payne - 5/29/21 (David's notes in red) In this dream, I was in a car with three other people that I have never met before. The road that we were on continued straight down the center of a city. Big tall buildings were on each side of the road that we were on. (The city represents Babylonish religion which we are commanded to come out of and be separate. The Bride and those with her travel on the straight highway of holiness road. Pro 21:8, (NLT) The guilty walk a crooked path; the innocent travel a straight road.) Then all of the sudden, out in the horizon, high in the left side of sky, we saw a red dot blazing as it was descending. The dot became large like an asteroid or meteorite. It was a big ball of fire that had a large tail and it was falling towards the right side of the city. (Judgment is in the hand of the Lord and He sets the wicked goats on His left. But He uses them to judge those in rebellion on the right. His judgment will fall on the apostate church who think they are in right standing with God because of their religious traditions. God will use the DS Babylon to judge the apostate church first and bring His elect out from among the Harlot religions of Babylon. 1Pe 4:17  For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18  And if the righteous is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? You notice the greater judgment on the wicked will come after they bring the saints to their cross.) It was about to crash onto the earth, but it changed its trajectory and was now aimed straight towards us, aimed to fall right on top of us in the car. The asteroid crashed a couple of miles in front of us. (Bride escapes the destruction)  The crater exploded in fire and a wave of fire bellowed out from it and the earth quaked from the impact. The entire city lost power and the windows in the buildings blew out and the sky darkened as if it was now night time. (Spiritually speaking, the Harlot church in Babylon will lose power when God's judgment falls and spiritual darkness covers the earth. There will be a mass exodus of God's elect fleeing the darkness of apostasy through the great revival and outpouring of the Holy Spirit that God is sending at the same time His judgments begin. They will come out of the darkness to the light of the Man-child and Bride. Isa. 60:1-5, Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the peoples; but Jehovah will arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3 And nations shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all gather themselves together, they come to thee; thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be carried in the arms. 5 Then thou shalt see and be radiant, and thy heart shall thrill and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be turned unto thee, the wealth of the nations shall come unto thee.) The smoke settled and the fire subsided. Then out from the crater of the asteroid, crawled a four-legged creature. It was a yellow or tan lion with a large mane. It had two huge wings like an eagle coming out from its belly and had long pointed horns on each side of its face and a snout like a bull. Its entire body was glowing in flames and stood about 10 feet tall. (10 is the number of the Law and of judgment.) The ground was smoldering beneath it. Its eyes were fiery red, and it looked right at us. (This is the Babylonish Beast who hates traditional Christianity and will devour it as in Rev 17.) Then it started to run towards us. As it passed buildings, everything would become consumed in its fires and be destroyed. (Dan. 7:2-10, Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of heaven brake forth upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings (This was Babylon representing at this time DS Babylon): I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon two feet as a man; and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And, behold, another beast, a second, like to a bear (This was the Medo-Persian bear with Cyrus at its head who is a type of President Trump who will conquer DS Babylon.); and it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.  The driver of the car drove us off towards the right side of the city. The creature was stopping at each building and devouring everyone it could find. We were able to get some distance between us and the creature. (The Beast will be able to devour everyone that it finds. That is, all those who don't have the Psalm 91 protection of being hidden beneath the shadow of Fathers wings through sanctification and faith in the promises of God.) We arrived at a small older looking house. It was the only house in the entire city that had its lights on. An elderly woman was standing at the door and beckoned for us to come in. (This elderly woman represents Wisdom whose house the Bride lives in and soon those fleeing DS Babylon will seek out. Her house is small and old because she represents the ancient paths that only a small remnant, throughout History, have followed. Pro. 8:1-12, Doth not wisdom cry, And understanding put forth her voice? 2 On the top of high places by the way, Where the paths meet, she standeth; 3 Beside the gates, at the entry of the city, At the coming in at the doors, she crieth aloud: 4 Unto you, O men, I call; And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O ye simple, understand prudence; And, ye fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Hear, for I will speak excellent things; And the opening of my lips shall be right things. 7 For my mouth shall utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverse in them. 9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, And right to them that find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; And knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies; And all the things that may be desired are not to be compared unto it. 12  I wisdom have made prudence my dwelling, And find out knowledge and discretion. In times of destruction wisdom is more valuable than silver and gold.)  The three other people and myself walked into the house and it was then that I realized that I was with my youngest son, Isaiah, who is 4 years old. Isaiah means “God is salvation”. (Isaiah was a wise man who brought salvation to those who had ears to hear.  Isa 33:5-6  Jehovah is exalted; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with justice and righteousness.  6  And there shall be stability in thy times, abundance of salvation, wisdom, and knowledge: the fear of Jehovah is thy treasure.)  Isaiah and I walked around the inside of the house, I thought that I wanted to seek shelter in the innermost part of the house. We walked through the kitchen, past the bathroom, and through the hallway. We entered a bedroom and I sat on the floor just past the doorway and next to the bed. Although the house had power, the lights were off in this room. (Because it is a time for rest in the promises under the shadow of His wings.)  I had my son sit in my lap as I prayed. I started praying in English and then began praying in tongues. Soon my prayer in tongues turned into a more fervent prayer and became louder. (The Bride intercedes for the rest of the people of God just as Queen Esther did before king Ahasuerus.) At this point, I realized that the room was dark because someone was sleeping in the King-sized bed beside where I was sitting on the floor. I hadn't noticed Him laying there but, as I was praying in tongues, He started to pray in tongues also, even though He was still sleeping. (Jesus is the arm of the Lord. Isa. 51:9, Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Is it not thou that didst cut Rahab in pieces, that didst pierce the monster?) He prayed in tongues and then he said in English, “The Destroyer.”  Then he prayed something more in tongues and then said in English, “Earth Quake.” Then he prayed once again in tongues and he said something else in English, but I can't remember it now. (When the Lord comes in His Man-child body it will be the time of great earthquakes and a Passover from the Destroyer.  Psa. 7:6-13, Arise, O Jehovah, in thine anger; Lift up thyself against the rage of mine adversaries, And awake for me; thou hast commanded judgment. 7 And let the congregation of the peoples compass thee about; And over them return thou on high. 8 Jehovah ministereth judgment to the peoples: Judge me, O Jehovah, according to my righteousness, and to mine integrity that is in me. 9 O let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end, but establish thou the righteous: For the righteous God trieth the minds and hearts. 10 My shield is with God, Who saveth the upright in heart. 11 God is a righteous judge, Yea, a God that hath indignation every day. 12 If a man turn not, he will whet his sword; He hath bent his bow, and made it ready. 13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He maketh his arrows fiery shafts.) Then he rolled over and sat up from the bed and looked straight at me; right into my eyes. He was a middle eastern looking man with brown skin and dark hair. He was in his 30s. (I know that this was Jesus!) His eyes were all encompassing and filled me up with peace. Then he laid back down and went to sleep. (Jesus, in the Man-child, is currently at rest, but He will arise soon in anointing to bring new life and revival to His elect and judgment to the wicked.) There were also four children that were also sleeping near the bed and all four children got up to see what was happening outside. I motioned for them to keep quiet as they left the room. When they opened the bedroom door, I could see outside as if through their eyes. The glowing creature was sitting outside the house waiting for anyone to come out in order to devour them. (Anyone is without the Passover protection of the blood of the Lamb if they leave the house on which the blood is. Exo 12:22  And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and strike the lintel and the two sideposts with the blood that is in the basin; and none of you shall go out of the door of his house until the morning.) Then I was somehow transported to another location. I was in a tall building that had 14 stories. (The foundation has already been laid which is Christ and then the early Apostles, etc) Inside this building I knew that Dave Nelson and I were looking for other people to bring back with us to Jesus's house. (Dave here represents the David Man-child reformers) (Isaac: I believe the 14th floor represents that we are the last 14th generation after Christ and his spiritual seed mentioned in the Mat. Ch.1 genealogy. Mat.1:17, So all the generations from Abraham unto David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away to Babylon fourteen generations; and from the carrying away unto Babylon unto the Christ fourteen generations. We are the 42nd generation as David Eells's book explains that it was actually 14, 14, and 13 generations mentioned. The 14th generation is said here to be Christ, and it is the body of Christ in our day. “What Has Been Shall Be: The Man-Child Returns” talks about this on page 22-29. Psa.22:30 A seed shall serve him; It shall be told of the Lord unto the next generation.  Psa. 89:3-4, I have made a covenant with My Chosen; I have sworn to David My servant, I will establish your seed forever And build up your throne to all generations. Selah.) While on the 14th floor, I was with two other people that I have never met in real life. We were hiding and waiting in a bathroom. The 2 other people were in the corner behind me and I was praying with them. Dave Nelson rushed into the bathroom and crystal-clear water began to pour out of his mouth. It propelled at least three feet out and was at a high velocity and long duration. When Dave spoke, he said, “The Destroyer cannot be everywhere at once. While it is in the basement, Let's get out!” (Isaac: I think that Dave Nelson represents the Davidic Man-child ministry.) (The Man child ministers will deliver the pure water of the Word to the elect people of God once the anointing has come and they will give guidance that will help the people avoid destruction.) Dave Nelson led me and the other 2 people out of the 14th floor and down towards the road to his vehicle. The floor level of the building was an Outdoor Store; a store that sells camping, hunting, fishing, and sports items. (Representing a wilderness period for the people which is just ahead when people will be in need. We are not far from the tribulation but this may come before that.) The entire store was in disarray. Shelves were pushed over, and items had been looted. There were still some strangers looting as we walked through. One of the people that was talking with us, asked if he needed to grab a sleeping bag or lantern or something. Dave said, “No, God will provide.” (In the wilderness God will provide the needs of His people supernaturally.) We walked out of the store and saw that Dave's vehicle was a salvaged, pieced together car with parts that didn't look like they should go together, much less run. The vehicle had a sedan front and a shopping buggy basket as a trunk. (God can choose the weak things of the world to show His power to save and provide.) I then noticed that a young teenage boy was with us. It was my Isaiah. He had matured into a young man overnight and I only recognized his necklace that he always wears. The outside buildings were frosted over, and I said to Isaiah that he should wrap himself with a blanket for our car ride back to Jesus's house. He said plainly, “I'm covered.” (Isaiah represents the fruit of the Bride that will mature very quickly when the Man child ministry and the end time revival begin.) Then I woke up.   Biden Voters Lose Their Minds Bill Steenland - 11/22/20  (David's notes in red) In my dream a Democrat was telling me about what they have seen at their “parties”. She was very distraught and confused because the people in the Joe Biden “party” were being decapitated by an angel. She was put off that the people were still alive but with no heads. I think it means they have no power to rationalize or think. (As this far left party has factioned against the right wing and Christians and lost their brains so God speaks of the Edomites who factioned against their chosen brother Israel and lost all wisdom. Both David and the Nations conquered them and so it will be. (Jer 49:7-8  Of Edom. Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: Is wisdom no more in Teman? is counsel perished from the prudent? is their wisdom vanished?  8  Flee ye, turn back, dwell in the depths, O inhabitants of Dedan; for I will bring the calamity of Esau upon him, the time that I shall visit him…. 10  But I have made Esau bare, I have uncovered his secret places, and he shall not be able to hide himself: his seed is destroyed, and his brethren, and his neighbors; and he is not. … 13  For I have sworn by myself, saith Jehovah, that Bozrah shall become an astonishment, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes. 14  I have heard tidings from Jehovah, and an ambassador is sent among the nations, saying, Gather yourselves together, and come against her, and rise up to the battle.)  I think this also means these people are going to “lose it” or lose “their heads” when the courts rule in favor of President Trump on the vote cheating they have done. I also can't help but think it's a form of reprobation similar to the mark or ultimate judgement. These are the people who have been taking in faction and witchcraft against President Trump, America, and the Christians for four straight years, so I'm not surprised.    It's Almost Trump 'TIME'! Vanessa Weeks - 3/2/21 (David's notes in red) I dreamed a few of us here were sitting in a circle at the Shaw's. Michael (meaning: Who is like God?) was standing and telling us that when the news is released of the De/ep Sta/te's actions, that very soon after that, Time magazine would have Trump on the cover with a story, and it will be very important. (We've heard of the Durham report coming out soon. Much other declassification is coming out now.  This would be a timely declassification before Trump is reinstated as President of the United States and also after the election audit results in the swing states are revealed.) In the dream, I saw that it would be a large magazine like 'Look magazine', which I remember from my childhood. (Barry: The magazine was Time magazine, but it was in a large format like "Look" magazine was, 11"x14". Look magazine stopped publication in 1971, so maybe this hints at a return to how life was in the past.) (Trump's second administration or 'TIME' in office will be much greater than his first term. God is using him to reform governments around the world.) Time magazine now is very left leaning so this would be a miracle. (The DS MSM will be taken down during the 10 days of darkness. Q says, “Dark to Light”. When the lights come back on, we will have a free and independent media, temporarily run by the military, at least for awhile.) I asked why is it so important? I received by faith at random Isa 1:7 (in context 7-9) Your country is desolate; your cities are burned with fire; your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. 8  And the daughter of Zion is left as a booth in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. 9  Except Jehovah of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Here is another awesome parallel between President Trump and the Man-child ministries, which is Jesus manifested in them by His Word and Spirit.   It's Almost David's 'TIME'! Eve Brast - 6/29/16 (David's notes in red) I knew I had to hurry because Curt was having a going-away party at his house because he and David were going somewhere and I didn't want to be late for the occasion. (The name Curtis means "wise counsel". Through the wise counsel of the Word, the Davids are led to their spiritual death [and resurrection].) When I got to the party, Curt had it all set up in his library. Curt (as Wisdom) had a very expensive, large house and his library had upscale wood paneling with many shelves full of books. (Col 2:2-3  that their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, that they may know the mystery of God, even Christ,  3  in whom are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge hidden. {Pro.9:1} Wisdom hath builded her house; She hath hewn out her seven pillars: {2} She hath killed her beasts; She hath mingled her wine; She hath also furnished her table. {Mat.7:24} Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock.)  It wasn't a party with a bunch of food; it was just like our regular weekly Local UBM meetings on Monday and Friday, only it was a special celebration for their departure. When I got there, the praise and worship was just ending and as the last notes were played. I sat down on the floor to the right side of the library in front of Curt. He was seated on a stool with his feet firmly planted on the floor (rooted and grounded on the firm foundation of Christ) and his two hands rested on top of his knees. (Not trusting in the arm of the flesh.) As I turned and looked up at him, his face was red and he was teary-eyed as he watched David step up to the podium to teach us and give his farewell address. (Representing the passing away of the self life of the David Man-child body.).  When he started his farewell speech, he intermittently extolled all of Curt's strengths and his dedication, and how we've all benefited from his service to us. (This is true of Curt and of what he represents: wisdom.) (Wise counsel is a tree of life. Pro.3:18 She [wisdom] is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: And happy is every one that retaineth her.) I looked back at Curt and knew this was hard on him. I then looked at all the books behind him on the shelves and wondered how he was going to pack them all to take with them. (They are in his heart library.) Then I turned back toward David who was still speaking and noticed that Curt had the whole opposite wall of the library dedicated to his TIME Magazine collection. Each magazine was on its own little shelf and was in a clear plastic protector. (The wisdom gained over time is cumulative and valuable bringing us all through the experience of losing our life to gain our higher life in Christ.)  I saw that the latest copy (in the last TIME) in the center of the display had an Andy Warhol-style picture on the cover of David Eells looking upward. (A type of the David Man-child's expectation being Heavenly. After their spiritual death there will be a resurrection to the throne.  Rev 12:5  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne. Col.3:2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. 3 For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. {4} When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.) It was done in skintones with red, white, and blue mixed in. (Those who truly love their country will lose their old life to gain their Christ life.)  (This reminds me of my dream of our corner of Zion coming down from Heaven on top of the 12 dead panthers with the white paws and a voice telling me (as a type of the Bride) I was now promoted to President of the United States after the order of the tribe of Zebulun.) (The Bride body will rule as the Lord said the overcomers would do. Esther, the Bride, ruled under the direction of Mordecai, as a type of the David Man-child. As David was the head of Jerusalem, which was called "the Bride" in Revelation, so the Man-child Davids rule through the body of the Bride. Here is the portion of that dream Eve speaks of: Suddenly, a loud voice above and behind me said, "You have been promoted to President (presiding over) of the United States, after the order of the tribe of Zebulun!" (Can a David Man-child, head member of the Bride body, as David was, be President of the U.S.? Only in regard to his exercising authority for God. Even Jesus, who had all authority to speak for the Father, said, {Joh.5:30} I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. We received His Word a few days ago: {6:38} For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. So the Lord is the real President but He has a body of people He speaks through whom He is calling "President" here. The word TIME was above David's head on the cover. (Time is up for the David's crucifixion. Time to go to the throne.) David had been revealed to everyone and was going away with Curt because he had a bigger job to do now. (Promotion/anointing of the David Man-children [to the throne after their spiritual death to self].) This is when I woke up. I remember Missy had a revelation or a word about it being "TIME". I asked Father for a word by faith at random today and it really fits this dream He gave me this morning: {Est.10:2} And all his acts of power and might, together with a full account of the greatness of Mordecai (a type of the David Man-child company), whom the king had promoted, are they not written in the book of the annals of the kings of Media and Persia? {3} Mordecai the Jew was second in rank to King Xerxes, preeminent among the Jews, and held in high esteem by his many fellow Jews, because he worked for the good of his people and spoke up for the welfare of all the Jews. (This will be true of the Man-child ministers around the globe.)   Select LanguageAfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKinyarwandaKoreanKurdish (Kurmanji)KyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianOdia (Oriya)PashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTatarTeluguThaiTurkishTurkmenUkrainianUrduUyghurUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu Powered by Translate Printer-friendly version

This week, Lucinda talks to HR advocate and co-founder of HR Independents, Ruth Cornish, about the sometimes complicated subject of sponsoring overseas workers, how to remain compliant, and what has changed since Brexit? Key Takeaways Significant trust is placed in sponsors and the Home Office imposes high standards and is extremely exacting in their requirements. There are three key parts that must be undertaken when becoming a sponsor - applying for sponsor license, understanding the processes required in order to sponsor a worker, and ensuring compliance at all times. Furthermore, suitability checks are mandatory, and will ensure that staff involved are eligible. Also, things that may complicate matters include unspent legal convictions, and failure to have paid VAT or other excise duties. Certainly, keeping detailed records is a must. Evidence of compliance must be available to produce when requested. Lastly, failure in these and other areas can lead to sponsorship status being lost or downgraded. Valuable Resources Join the HR Uprising LinkedIn Group The HR Uprising ranked 9th in Feedspot's ‘Top 30 UK HR Podcasts You Must Follow in 2021'. Host of The HR Uprising Podcast, Lucinda Carney, is also the founder and CEO of Actus Software, where you can find additional free HR Resources:  All free resources: https://actus.co.uk/free-performance-management-resources/ NEW infographic: 10 Steps to Creating a Successful Hybrid Workplace Introducing the new Actus Academy: your on-demand e-learning platform! Virtual Training Programmes: How to be a Change Superhero Virtual People Management Change Superhero Resources: Book: How To Be A Change Superhero – by Lucinda Carney Free Change Toolkit: www.changesuperhero.com Podcast Episode 55: Supporting Individuals Through Change The HR Uprising Podcast | Apple | Spotify | Stitcher   Best Moments 'Sponsorship is a privilege, not a right' 'If you become a sponsor, you become an extension of the Home Office. That's a very privileged position to be in' 'This is definitely something you need to research!' 'Look at established systems' About The Guest Ruth Cornish is a Human Resources expert with more than 25 years' experience. Additionally, she's worked for American Express, city investment banks ABN Amro & Charterhouse, Mazars LLP and the Environment Agency. She is a regular guest on BBC Radio Gloucestershire as HR expert and regularly comments on issues regarding women in business. For the last 10 years she has run HR consultancy Amelore Ltd who work with a range of fast growing clients & also provide HR consultancy services to the clients of Mazars LLP. Lastly, she is co-founder of HR Independents. Ruth Cornish LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthcornish/?originalSubdomain=uk ABOUT THE HOST Lucinda Carney is a Business Psychologist with 15 years in Senior Corporate L&D roles and a further 10 as CEO of Actus Software where she worked closely with HR colleagues helping them to solve the same challenges across a huge range of industries. It was this breadth of experience that inspired Lucinda to set up the HR Uprising community to facilitate greater collaboration across HR professionals in different sectors, helping them to ‘rise up' together. “If you look up, you rise up” CONTACT METHOD Join the LinkedIn community - https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13714397/ Email: Lucinda@advancechange.co.uk Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucindacarney/ Twitter: @lucindacarney Instagram: @hruprising Facebook: @hruprising See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Edu Kettunen & Miqu December of PLASTIC TEARS and Jon chat about glam rock, signing to Wormholedeath Records, touring Europe; two tracks 'Look of Lies', 'Riot Zone' and their latest album, Anthems For Misfits. 'Look of Lies' https://youtu.be/J_U2_Ehfahg 'Riot Zone' https://youtu.be/hseB67bExWQ Find out more about PLASTIC TEARS at: https://twitter.com/ThePlasticTears -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Harris of The Rock Metal Podcast interviews rock and metal bands to get the scoop on their latest two songs and news! Want to be on The Rock Metal Podcast? Email Jon at TheRockMetalPodcast@gmail.com Want to support The Rock Metal Podcast? Donate here: https://www.paypal.me/JonJHarris Want to be on our newsletter list? Provide your email address at https://mailchi.mp/af7a2332e334/therockmetalpodcastnewsletter

Charlie caught up with Dave Westbrook at Hanaminno for this interview which tracks Dave's journey from cropping farm boy, through to owning his own grazing farm and business, family succession challenges, development of his farm management skills through the Farm Owners Academy, and subsequent training as a farm business coach. Dave has a compelling and enlightening story to tell and does so in a very open and values based way. Episode Takeaways: There has always been a big pull towards the Australian nature and landscape for Dave | He grew up on a cropping farm on the Yorke Peninsula in South Australia | His father helped him buy a farm on Kangaroo Island (KI) where his wife Becky had grown up and he no experience with livestock | There was a honeymoon period of 2 years until Dave started to really research and set goals and started to hit his KPI's | 'Quirky cooking' cooking resource  helped Dave and Becky address their daughter's eczema skin condition with the GAPS (Gut And Psychology Syndrome) diet | The results of using food and looking at health differently was a catalyst for Dave looking at managing his farm more regeneratively - if we can heal the body can we heal land? Dave and Becky joined up as clients to the Farm Owners Academy (FOA) in 2015 and have been in the Platinum program for 3 years | Greg Johnsson of FOA had been advising Dave on Kangaroo Island prior to joining FOA | FOA is a values focused training program and Dave was able to identify his true values through the program and set a new course in life and farming with these values as the guiding principles | Life is often about finding the balance between time and money, and we spend our lives on the ladders of life, of either the ladder of purpose or ladder of ego | Dave was on the ladder of ego for many years feeling he had to prove himself to his father, himself and his community | Men potentially spend more time on the ego ladder | Dave uses the analogy of shooting an arrow to explain the catalyst for progress is often pain. There is pain in pulling back the arrow however this has to be experienced to move the arrow (life) forward | Dave is now a coach with FOA | Dave lost ownership of his farm on KI back to his father and essentially was made an employee of the business | Personal development and FOA were essential in guiding Dave through this period | He now helps farmers through his coaching with their accountability and achieving their goals. Anger is a symptom of fear | Journaling and affirmations are a big part of Dave’s life and for his clients | 'Look good, feel good, play good' is one of Dave's mantras | Win your morning, elevate your life | 20:20:20 - spend the first hour of your day split into 20 minutes sections - 20 workout, 20 meditations and/or journaling and/or affirmations | 20 education, listen to a podcast, read a book | The happy hormone serotonin is released from gut when working out | Robin Sharman's areas of life to focus on - heart set, health set, mind set and soul set | Women are more proactive in change | Farmers who go off on a spiritual journey  are the happiest they have been - their lives flow. More time, more money, their families' are happy. Wayne Dye - “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change” | It’s exciting to know that there are 1000’s of years of knowledge for us to learn | When I slowed down, everything sped up - a hard paradigm to break through | Always live above the line | We don’t own our kids | Children need 2 things in life - love & chores! Episode Links : Dave Westbook AKA @adventurefarmer   Evie and the Bushfire - Becky Westbrook (children's book) Farm Owners Academy (FOA)  Profitable Farmer - FOA podcast  Quirky Cooking - Jo Whitton GAPS (Gut And Psychology Syndrome)  Robin Sharmar -  leadership expert

An operation by Brazilian Federal Police has uncovered an international exploitation and trafficking network with ties to Australia and other countries. At least 200 victims have been identified, the majority aged between 18 and 20, but among them were also minors, recruited through social media with traffickers posing as makeup and beauty companies offering employment opportunities. - A ‘Operação Harem BR’, da Polícia Federal brasileira, levou à rede internacional de exploração sexual e tráfico de mulheres. Os investigadores apuram também a apresentação de documentos possivelmente falsos junto a Embaixada da Austrália no Brasil para dar entrada em pedidos de vistos australianos, como holerites e comprovantes de vínculos empregatícios.

Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, -The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed- 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is-' or, 'There it is-' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.- -22 And He said to the disciples, -The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 They will say to you, 'Look there- Look here-' Do not go away, and do not run after them. 24 For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man- 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot- they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building- 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out- and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night.....

Claire and Sophie are back with their fortnightly podcast. After a brief hiatus due to testing & a cyber attack, Claire and Sophie sit down and discuss returning to school, what they've been up to and books they have been reading. Books reviewed include: 'Little bits of sky' by S.E Durrant (6.17) 'Haunting of Aveline Jones' by Phil Hickes (9.52) 'Look both ways' by Jason Reynolds (12.14) Also join us in our book cover discussion on twitter by @lounge_learning. Check out our mindfulness podcast here -> https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/loungingwithbooks/episodes/2019-06-13T01_04_11-07_00d

Show Links  Check out Growthbuster Check out Konnect Follow Vasa Martinez on LinkedIn  Follow Sabina Gault on LinkedIn Employee surveys Sabina spoke about: Office Vibe Key Takeaways:12:17 –– On not doing what others do "I said, 'Look, I think this is not about looking at what everybody else is doing. I think this is about looking at who our tribe is and how do we develop that tribe of consumers that are going to love what we do, and that are going to believe in us and they're going to be our advocates.'"

The King is Coming Matthew 21:1-11 As Jesus and the disciples approached Jerusalem, they came to the town of Bethphage on the Mount of Olives. Jesus sent two of them on ahead. "Go into the village over there, " he said. "As soon as you enter it, you will see a donkey tied there, with its colt beside it. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone asks what you are doing, just say, 'The Lord needs them,' and he will immediately let you take them." This took place to fulfill the prophecy that said, "Tell the people of Israel, 'Look, your King is coming to you. He is humble, riding on a donkey - riding on a donkey's colt.'" The two disciples did as Jesus commanded. They brought the donkey and the colt to him and threw their garments over the colt, and he sat on it. Most of the crowd spread their garments on the road ahead of him, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. Jesus was in the center of the procession, and the people all around him were shouting, "Praise God for the Son of David! Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Praise God in highest heaaven!" The entire city of Jerusalem was in an uproar as he entered. "Who is this?" they asked. And the crowds replied, "It's Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee." Jesus is King Matthew 21:4-5 This took place to fulfill the prophecy that said, "Tell the people of Israel, 'Look, your King is coming to you. He is humble, riding on a donkey - riding on a donkey's colt.'" Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice, O people of Zion! Shout in triumph, O people of Jerusalem! Look, your king is coming to you. He is righteous and victorious, yet he is humble, riding on a donkey - riding on a donkey's colt. Micah 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past. Luke 19:38 "Blessings on the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven, and glory in highest heaven!" Jesus as Messiah Matthew 21:9 Jesus was in the center of the procession, and the people all around him were shouting, "Praise God for the Son of David! Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Praise God in highest heaven!" Psalm 118:25-26 Please, Lord, please save us. Please, Lord, please give us success. Bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord. We bless you from the house of the Lord. Luke 19:39 But some of the Pharisees among the crowd said, "Teacher, rebuke your followers for saying things like that!" Jesus as Worthy of our Praise Matthew 21:9 Jesus was in the center of the procession, and the people all around him were shouting, "Praise God for the Son of David! Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Praise God in highest heaven!" Ephesians 1:21 Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else - not only in this world but also in the world to come. Luke 19:40 He replied, "If they kept quiet, the stones along the road would burst into cheers!" Jesus as Returning King Matthew 21:5 "Tell the people of Israel, 'Look, your King is coming to you. He is humble riding on a donkey - riding on a donkey's colt.'" Revelation 19:11-13 Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. Revelation 19:14-16 The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. On his robe at the thigh was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords. Matthew 24:44 You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected.

On this episode, the hilarious comedians from LA, and the hosts/producers of the Cheers 2 That podcast....Amanda Michelle and Shamar! Listen as we sip our drinks and laugh along with us. Be sure to follow them on the socials IG: @amandamichelleandshamar and you can find us @180sisterhood Thanks for tuning in and thanks to all who have sent in their scripts! To submit an old or new script, poem, letter or short story, please email Rebeka and Trish at 180sisterhood@gmail.com

''Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect (Matthew 24:23-24).'' Is it possible for someone who is saved to fall from God's grace? Unfortunately, it is. While Jesus says, "No one will snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:28), He elsewhere says that the wedding guest without the garment of faith will be cast out into outer darkness (Matthew 22:11-13). No one may snatch us out of His hand, but that doesn't mean we can't jump out of His hand. It is faith that brings us into the kingdom of Heaven. Without faith, we cannot enter Heaven. Unfortunately there are many who have been raised in our churches and succumbed to the worldly social pressures and left the faith. Baptism isn't enough. We need faith to go along with it. Many have been baptized that have fallen away from the truth of the Gospel. They no longer believe Jesus is their Savior. Therefore He must hand them over to their foolishness (Romans 1:22-23). Trading God's truth for the devil's lie. Is it possible to fall from God's grace? Yes it is. But to prevent that, be in the Word so you will not fall for the devil's lie. Amen.

Story Arc: "The Murder Mystery" This episode of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies! Tentacles, interrogations, autopsies! Charles improvised this onstage at a club in Brownsville, Pennsylvania in December 1958 after he played every song he knew and still had 12 minutes to fill. He simply asked his band to follow his lead... which they did. He told his backing singers (The Raeletts) to simply repeat whatever he said. The singer remembered: "I had sung everything I could think of. So I said to the guys, 'Look, I'm going to start this thing off, I don't know where I'm going, so y'all just follow me.' And I said to the girls, 'Whatever I say, just repeat after me.'" Songfacts. “What'd I Say by Ray Charles - Songfacts.” Song Meanings at Songfacts, www.songfacts.com/facts/ray-charles/whatd-i-say. Cast & Credits: Producer, Editor & DM: Scott Editor & Bambi: Jin (https://www.twitch.tv/phantomquill) Social Media Manager & Greg: DeSombre Bengt: Tommy- Sanjana: Lena Theme Music: Taylor Calise Additonal Sound Effects: Zapsplat.com Art: Jon Bliss (https://twitter.com/jonblissart) Recorded on our Discord server by Craigbot! (https://craig.chat/home/) Want to find out more about us? https://rfedpod.com/ Want to Email us? RFEDPod@gmail.com Want to follow us on Social media? Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/RFED_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RFEDpod Twitter: https://twitter.com/RFEDpod YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT3QkpOLLIBwvSKZUZPq7IQ (we'll get a custom url when you subscribe to the channel!)

Plants and Christians are similar in their requirements for growth. Both need light, water, heat, and food to survive and to bear flowers and fruit. "There is a perennial cost to the Christian life. That is, it's not all cost. You see, some of us want to be in eternal summer and we want the Lord to shine on us everyday, and all days in the month in and out, and we want to have a lovely time full of fruitfulness never ceasing and so on, and the Lord says, 'Look here, I can’t do that. I’m not going to do that. There is a perennial cost. Now listen, the sharper the winter, the more fruitful the summer.'"

"It's interesting, isn't it? That the people who touch our hearts and the people who lead us through battle are not the people who were ever perfect. These are the people with the bruises and the broken parts. And they let you see their scars. And they don't say, 'Look at me.' They say, 'Come with me. We're going together.' And you can only come with someone who meets you where you're at. And so it's the people who've been broken, my friends. It's all of us. We are the leadership."

Join us for a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  David Armstrong finishes our Epiphany series 'Look for the Light' with the story from Mark 9 of the transfiguration of Jesus. The brightness of Christ is our hope and light amidst the gloom and darkness of life and points to God's good future for this world.

In part 2 of our series on Enneagrams, we dive deep into types two (helper) and seven (enthusiast). As a lifelong helper, Eugene tells us how his helper type has changed over time for the better, and what he thinks helpers are like in relationships. He also reveals why he may not be as strong an enthusiast as David believes, but also where he wants to direct his enthusiast energy. The next episode will be our last in the Enneagram series (for now) where we discuss David's results. As always, thanks for listening! Music: MOJO - tubebackr Winter Love - Declan DP My reading journey: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/34364-david?order=d&shelf=read&sort=date_read https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rmGsRHNFLGW3CdbXndnnS8CeCmw0qavfTwCuiSzmGEY/edit SUBSCRIBE, RATE, and REVIEW What Just Happened? on iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify. Reach us at Facebook: www.facebook.com/whatjusthappenedpodcast Twitter @davidgchang whatjustpodcast @ gmail . com “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.'" - Fred Rogers

In part 2 of our series on Enneagrams, we dive deep into types two (helper) and seven (enthusiast). As a lifelong helper, Eugene tells us how his helper type has changed over time for the better, and what he thinks helpers are like in relationships. He also reveals why he may not be as strong an enthusiast as David believes, but also where he wants to direct his enthusiast energy. The next episode will be our last in the Enneagram series (for now) where we discuss David's results. As always, thanks for listening! Music: MOJO - tubebackr Winter Love - Declan DP My reading journey: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/34364-david?order=d&shelf=read&sort=date_read https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rmGsRHNFLGW3CdbXndnnS8CeCmw0qavfTwCuiSzmGEY/edit SUBSCRIBE, RATE, and REVIEW What Just Happened? on iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify. Reach us at Facebook: www.facebook.com/whatjusthappenedpodcast Twitter @davidgchang whatjustpodcast @ gmail . com “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.'" - Fred Rogers

Join us for a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  David Armstrong continues our series 'Look for the Light' with part 5 from the Gospel of Mark. Jesus begins his ministry preaching and embodying the good news of the Kingdom of God with a series of healings throughout. Galilee. Today we are reminded his gospel is one of bringing wholeness and liberation here and no, no matter our circumstances.

Join us for a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  In Part 4 David Armstrong speaks from Mark 1: 14-20 and encourages us to place a ruthless trust in Jesus.

Join us for a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  In Part 3 David Armstrong looks at the wedding in Cana as found in John 2: 1-11 and Gillian Stewart shares a beautiful prayer with us.

Join us for a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  In Part 2 David Armstrong looks at Jesus’ baptism as found in Mark 1: 1-15.

It’s Time to Come Home Genesis 37 - 38, Psalm 7, and Luke 15 It’s time to come home.  The younger brother decides that it’s time to come home.  He’s lived life on his own terms and it’s left him bankrupt.  When he does come home, he’s greeted with a kiss, a ring, a coat, a party, and the fatted calf.  He not only has found his Father but he’s found the richness of his father’s heart and the things his heart truly desires. The older brother needs to come home, too.  But we don’t find him there.  Well, he’s kind of there.  He’s out working in the field, earning slaving, trying to achieve his place at the home.  But he fails to see that Home has been there all along.  He comes in from the field, distraught, angry and beside himself.  This brother that forsook home has been embraced.  He’s found it somehow.  But the older brother, there all along, is refusing to step into the home.  He won’t come inside.  'All these years I've slaved for you and never once refused to do a single thing you told me to. And in all that time you never gave me even one young goat for a feast with my friends. (Lk 15:29 NLT) The Father’s response tells us everything: His father said to him, 'Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours.’ (Lk 15:31 NLT) This home has always been yours.  My heart has always been yours.  The riches I have, have always been for you, as a gift.  You haven’t had to earn them or perform for them. All you had to do was receive them. And if you had, you would know my heart - it delights in a son once dead but now alive, once lost but now at home. Step into the house.  Partake in the party that your good Father always has available.  The rich resources of his Presence and his Life are offered to anyone willing to see it as a gift.  It’s all Him.  His blessing doesn’t come by the sweat of your brow, but in resting in what He has done for you.   Let’s go Home.

David Armstrong brings the first talk in a new series, 'Look for the Light: An Epiphany Series' that calls for us to slow down during this season of Epiphany in 2021 and to pay attention to the divine presence of God. As seen in the coming of Christ, God is so often found in the darkest and most unlikely of places waiting to be discovered.  The first story we reflect upon is from the Christmas story from Matthew 2:1-12 and the moment when the Magi, the wise people from the east, follow their curiosity and longing to find and visit Jesus as a child at his birth.

This is a full in bloom interview with producer/engineer Jim Faraci. INSIDE THE ALBUM: Poison 'Look What The Cat Dragged In' Jim talks about recording Poison's 1986 multi-platinum debut album, 'Look What The Cat Dragged In.' More Info @ fullinbloom.com Hit the subscribe button & click the bell if you would like to be notified as new interviews & excerpts are uploaded. Song by FOOL OF FATE

Show notes can be found at tashcorbin.com/242 In today's episode, I'm going to share with you sales conversations that do NOT feel gross. I know for a lot of people, they either try to avoid sales conversations or they do sales conversations but they absolutely hate it. If that is you, I want you to pay attention to this episode. If you LOVE sales conversations, I still want you to read along because I'm going to help you make them even more effective and successful for you. The number one thing we need to get clear before I jump into improving your sales conversations, is the agreement that sales conversations are absolutely amazing. They are awesome for you, they are awesome for your ideal clients, and they are awesome for your business. Sales conversations are brilliant. Why is it that we avoid sales conversations or don't like them? In most cases, it's because we don't know how to do sales conversations effectively, or the way that we are doing sales conversations just feels yucky and so therefore we try to avoid them. Why do I believe sales conversations are amazing? They create so much connection. You're having a one to one conversation with someone about what they want, what they need, what's getting in their way, and how YOU might be able to help them achieve their goals. That is a brilliant opportunity for connection. Therefore it's one of the most high conversion activities you can do in your business, and it gives you really deep insight into what your audience is thinking, feeling and wanting in your area of expertise. This is such an amazing insight to assist you in getting your messaging clear, in making sure that you are speaking to the right outcomes with your value proposition, in refining and changing up your packages, and looking at your pricing structure - there are so many benefits to doing consistent and regular sales conversations. Not only that, you get a chance to practise speaking about your work to new and different people, and you get an opportunity to refine your messaging in your broadcast marketing activities because you're keeping up to date with what your audience is wanting and looking for from you. We resist those marketing and sales conversations because we don't have a way of doing sales conversations that feels great, or we've got some mindset blocks about being salesy, upsetting someone or being pushy or aggressive with them. That is why I see so many women trying to avoid sales conversations, and instead making sales only via broadcast methods such as sending emails, sending someone to a sales page, jumping straight into doing group programs instead of selling one to one packages, selling via their social media and making offers into Facebook groups. But they never actually have great quality sales conversations with potential leads. That means that you are missing out on so much juicy insight for your business as well as conversion and growth. I learned sales conversations the wrong way. When I first started my business, I had two coaches that I had worked with who taught me how to do sales conversations. Both of them took that sales conversation training straight out of the bro-marketing book - very aggressive, very manipulative types of sales conversations. Because of the way that I learned sales conversations, I tried to avoid them as well. I absolutely hated doing them. Not only did I try to avoid them and hate them when I did them, I also experienced physical symptoms when I actually had some sales conversations. When I was doing sales conversations, I would get what I called The Rash of Despair. I'd have this rash that would creep up out of my cleavage, take over my neck and then envelop my face. Many times people would ending up asking me if I was okay because I had turned bright red, and I would just brush it off saying that it was hot, but really it was because I was so uncomfortable with the process that I was taking people through. That led to me going through a significant period of time where I didn't really do sales conversations at all, unless I was doing the upsell at the end of a single session with people. Even then when I did the upsell at the end of the single session, I mostly made sales by people asking me how we could keep working together and me very briefly stating what the next package was and how much it was. That was it, that was the extent of my sales conversations. I'm very lucky, however, that about four or five months into the growth of my business, I realised that sales conversations would be so valuable for me in really refining my messaging and copy because I was struggling to understand how to speak about the value proposition of my work in a way that really converted effectively and at scale. I decided to reconcile my differences that I had with sales conversations, but also learn how to structure them and do them MY way in a way that felt comfortable for me. At that point, I threw out the sales conversation structure that I had been taught, and instead, I developed a sales conversation structure that felt really good for me. I also had a little check-in with myself after every single sales conversation by asking myself: How can I improve this? What bits did I miss? What happened? Why did it happen that way? I developed something that was going to work really well for me and felt really good. When you're doing a sales conversation or avoiding a sales conversation, I encourage you to tune into how that feels, and why it feels that way. I want you to really pay attention to that. You might find that it comes down to one of three S's: 1. Skill It might be that you just don't have good sales skills. Sales skills are a bit of a non-negotiable when it comes to being an entrepreneur and having your own business, so is this an opportunity for you to improve your skills in doing sales conversations? 2. Structure Perhaps you don't have a structure that feels like it works effectively for you, that guides you and your ideal client through that process so that it feels like you're ticking the boxes that you need to tick along the way, and you're getting to the point where you're pitching and feeling confident and comfortable doing that. Sometimes it's a structure issue. 3. Shady Is it just a shady practise that you've been taught, and it's not aligned with your values and you don't want to do it? That is totally cool as well. I'm going to go through these three S's with you and give you some advice on how to address these depending on what the combination is for you. 1. Skills There are two ways for you to grow your skills in sales conversations. 1. Learn sales skills from people that you trust, and whose sales processes you love Many women in the Take Off program are in there because they want to learn how to sell the way that I sell. The way that I sell really resonated for them, it felt very comfortable and empowering, and that's what they want to learn in their business as well. Learn some sales skills from people that you trust. There are lots and lots of sales mentors out there. The number one piece of advice I would give you is before you sign up to learn selling from any of these people, go through their sales process. If you are signing up to learn sales conversations with someone, I want you to ask them if you can have a quick chat about working together, and see how they make you feel in that sales process. Tune in to what's coming up for you when you're being sold to. Sign up for their newsletter and see the way that they treat you when you are a lead in their business. You might also like to unsubscribe from their newsletter and see how they treat you when you become someone who's not a lead in their business. I have unsubscribed from some things, and I can tell you, the way that some of their unsubscribe options were worded were absolutely manipulative and really gross. That actually helped me make the decision that I didn't want to stay on that person's list and I wasn't going to go back to them because that was really gross and I didn't like it. Learn sales skills from people that you trust, and go through their sales process. Listen to their podcast, get onto their mailing list or follow them on social media and see what happens in that process. Even just sliding into their DM's or sending them an email and seeing how you are treated will tell you a lot about the types of sales strategies that that person employes, and how they're going to teach you to make sales in your business as well. 2. Practise You build skills by practising. You aren't going to jump into doing sales conversations and be brilliant at it from the very start. It's going to take some practise, it's going to take some tweaking and refining and also just learning how to find the words that work for you. Your words are not going to be the same as my words. The reason for that is because we have different voices, we speak differently, we have different topic areas that we're helping people with and that is actually a good thing. You want to sink into sales conversations that feel like really comfortable conversations for you, therefore, you're going to need to find your words. That comes with practise. The first S is building your skills. 2. Structure I'm going to give you a really simple structure to a sales conversation, and I'm going to explain why each of those elements are part of that sales conversation so that you can see how empowering that structure can be. For me when I'm doing sales conversations, my basic structure is: 1. Connect with the person When we start the call, I don't just jump right into whether they're going to buy the program or not, I ask them where in the world they are, and for some information on their business. I want to understand a bit about that person and have some form of connection with them. I just keep that nice and brief, and I make sure in that connection that we have a shared understanding of what we're talking about. So I'll ask them how they are, I'll talk a bit about my day and whatever's been happening for me, and THEN once we've had a little bit of connecting time, I will clarify exactly what we're there to talk about. I make sure that we confirm that together as well. Some people can jump into a sales conversation with you and assume they're going to get a free coaching session first, so I want you to be really clear on the structure of what's going to happen in that call. You can give people some insight into how it's going to unfold so that everyone's on the same page. 2. Qualify This is where you learn how to ask really good questions. Qualifying is the process of working out what that person needs and whether that is something you can actually deliver for them. This is where a lot of sales conversations let you down, especially when you're learning that aggressive sales strategy where you dial up the pain points. That strategy isn't about understanding whether it's the right fit for people or not, it's about helping the person to see that it IS the right fit for them regardless. I approach this very differently. I'm on a journey of discovery with the person that I'm speaking to, I'm not on a journey of discovery of how to sell this thing to that person. When I'm talking about Take Off with someone, I tell them that I'm not going to pressure them into buying it, and that I just want us to work out whether it's the right fit for them or not. I genuinely want to do that in that sales conversation because I'm not interested in pitching Take Off to people who it's not going to help. I'm not interested in selling to people who I don't think are a really good fit for it, and who I'm not going to enjoy the process with, they're not going to enjoy the process, I'm not going to help them get the outcome, and they're not going to get the outcome. If there are any red flags coming up for me, I want to know about them in the sales conversation. I don't want to just push all of those down and make the sale at any cost. I think that that's where some of those more masculine, aggressive, pushy sales conversation structures can make it really difficult for us because they do tend to silence the other person and only get them saying yes to you. That's not how I do these things. In the qualifying process, I'm asking really good questions about: What that person wants What else they've tried Why they haven't been able to get that before What worked and didn't work for them What they think is going on I will often also ask people for a bit of information about their business, what their income level is, what works for them, what they've tried in the past and all of those insights into what's going on for them. This helps me to get a really clear picture of whether this is just going to be the same as what they've done before, whether there's going to be something different here, and also what stage of business they're at so I can accurately diagnose what their challenge is going to be and how they're going to get the most value for money either from working with me or from getting support from someone else. That qualifying process really does make up the majority of the sales conversation for me. 3. Confirm Once we've done that and I feel like we're on the same page and that I really understand what's going on for them, I will have a confirmation section of my sales call. In that confirmation section, I'm just making sure I've understood accurately what they need and that we're both on the same page. I will say something like, 'Look, it sounds to me like you've got all of the key pieces in terms of you understanding your niche, you know what your message is, you know what it is that you're offering, but you don't know how to bring all of those together to bring in good quality leads and convert them. Would that be accurate?' I'm just confirming and giving my expert diagnosis of what I can see, to get insight into whether that diagnosis is accurate. In that confirmation, I also confirm what it is that they're looking for. I will say something like 'It sounds to me like if you could get a little bit of hand-holding and direction on ..., and a step by step process for ..., that you'd really feel like you'd be able to get that momentum, achieve your income goals and be able to do it in the 20 hours a week that you've got limited to in terms of how long you can work in your business. Does that sound like I've got it right?' I'm saying these things and I'm confirming these things just to make sure that we are on the same page. Another thing that I might confirm (and it's usually a 50/50 as to whether I feel like this is necessary or not) is what the timeframe is. For example, if your client has a deadline that they need to be making $4,000 a month before they go on maternity leave, then I will confirm that timeframe as well to make sure we're on the same page. If we haven't discussed timeframes in the qualifying section, I make sure that I ask that question about timeframes. I ask the questions: What are you thinking in terms of how quickly you need to get this up and running? What income level are you looking for and by when? If I don't have confidence that we're going to be able to do that, I will be really clear about that. For example, if someone is looking for a really quick growth trajectory without having any ad spend or team members and they're relying completely on organic strategy, I will confirm that with them and then be upfront with them that I don't think I can help them achieve that goal. In that confirmation section of the sales conversation, we are being really upfront and honest with each other, we're getting on the same page, and I am confirming the value proposition that this person is looking for, and when they're looking for it by. It's a really important part of the sales conversation. 4. Offer Then and only then once I have that confirmation, I know that we're on the same page, we've agreed on some kind of timeframe that would be an appropriate goal that I would be comfortable with and that they would be comfortable with, THEN I make the offer. I usually make the offer through the lens of a recommendation. My words are, 'Well here's what I would recommend...' The reason why I make that recommendation is because I have just put all that energy and effort into understanding the person's business, what they're looking for and what they want, if I then say, 'Well, here's my offer', it actually disconnects from what we've just done. I make it as a recommendation. Sometimes I'm recommending a program, sometimes I'm recommending VIP, and sometimes I'm recommending that they go work with someone else. I make those recommendations based on my understanding of that person that I've just got from this sales conversation. That means that when I do make that offer - when I make that recommendation - I'm very confident that it's the right fit for them. This also means that when I ask them how that sounds, I can be confident and quiet and listen to their response without being really attached to them agreeing that that's what they need. If that recommendation is not the right fit for them, it's not what they are able to afford, it doesn't fit into their timeframes or they don't have the capacity to do that right now, we can talk about that, but at least I've made that recommendation with confidence. For people who aren't adding structure to their sales conversation, when they do the pitch of what the offer is, they're doing it blind, they haven't done that qualification, they haven't done that confirmation, and so they're just basically saying what their pitch is without really having that shared understanding that the thing they're pitching is going to help them achieve the goal that they want to achieve and address the challenges that they're facing. Making that offer, asking and being quiet happens only once I've done the qualifying and the confirmation. I need to be clear and confident that I'm making the right recommendation for that person. 5. Ask I give them a simple recommendation - I don't go into all the details of all the inclusions and bonuses, I just say what I recommend, why it would be the right fit for them, and what they'll get from it. Then I ask the question. Sometimes I will say the price and the investment upfront, sometimes I'll just confirm that they actually want to do it. I'm constantly checking how everything sounds to them. I go offer, ask, be quiet. Offer, ask, be quiet. Or recommend, ask, be quiet. If any objections or challenges come up, I will refine as needed. 6. Close In the close, I tell them what's going to happen from here. It's a really simple structure - you've got the connection and introductions, qualify, confirm, offer and ask, and then refine and close. That simple structure has really helped me, and I've built that based on my experience and practise doing sales conversations that feel really comfy for me. 3. Shady There are often some things that we are told we need to do in sales conversations that make us feel really gross and that is why we're avoiding them. In terms of shady, I just want to give you a couple of key tips here. 1. No means no If someone says 'No, I can't afford that right now', that is not an opportunity for you to then convince them of the value proposition. If they don't see the value proposition in it through the qualifying and the confirmation process, and when you present the investment, they tell you that it's out of reach for them even with a payment plan, then no means no. That's something that's really important to me. I always make sure that I respect the no. I know that for other sales conversation strategies and teachers, they don't teach that, but for me, that's really important. It's an issue of consent and rape culture, it's an issue of gaslighting and making women unsure of what their decisions are and making them doubt themselves, so for me, it's very important and it is a matter of principles and values that I respect the no. 2. Do NOT dial-up people's fear or pain in the process I don't use any sort of manipulation in my sales process. I will never try to manipulate people into buying my program by presenting them with what the negative consequences of not buying my program would be, and using emotional blackmail to get them into it. It's none of my business, and I just think it's very manipulative. It doesn't actually add to that process or empower people in that process in any way. 3. No pressure tactics or false scarcity I don't: Say there's only one spot available when there's more than one spot available Say they have to sign up in the next 24 hours if they want it, if they don't have to sign up in the next 24 hours Apply any pressure If someone says that they need to talk to their partner and they'll get back to me, I'll tell them that that's no problem and ask when they would like me to follow up with them. What I do NOT do is judge them. I will NOT tell them how I thought they were an independent woman who made empowered financial decisions on their own. I don't in any way, shape or form, create any pressure, make any false scarcity or make people make a decision there and then on the call, because I don't like doing that, therefore, it's another matter of principle and values from me. 4. Does it feel empowering? Then the final tactic and the final thing to think about when it comes to the shady stuff is to just ask yourself the question: Is this sales conversation empowering for them? And is this sales conversation empowering for me? If the answer is no to either of those questions then there's something shady going on, and it's a call for you to look into why that doesn't feel like it's empowering, and how you can change that process. I know that there's a lot in this podcast episode, but I also know how valuable it is to deal with the skills, structure and shadiness that come up in sales conversations. If this is something that you realise you haven't actually put any time and energy into learning in terms of growing your business and how to get those foundational skills and learn how to do sales in a way that is empowering for your audience, I would love for you to come and check out my free training. It's called Fast Track Your Startup. In this training, I cover the core base-level things you want to take care of in terms of skills, structure and strategy. Make sure you go and check that out at tashcorbin.com/fasttrack. I hope that you have found this really valuable. If you've found it valuable or you've got follow up questions or lightbulb moments you'd like to share, make sure you come on over to the Heart-Centred, Soul-Driven Entrepreneurs Facebook group, use #podcastaha, let me know you've been listening to podcast episode 242 and let's continue the conversation there. Until next time, I cannot WAIT to see you SHINE.

Brendan McClenahan and David Jeffery read and reflect on Matthew 25:1-13. Please make sure to subscribe to this podcast! For the full Bible Reading Plan, head to victorypoint.org. To find out more about the context of Matthew 25:1-13 head to https://thebibleproject.com/explore/matthew. We would love to include your input on this podcast. Send us an email at brendanmcclenahan@victorypoint.org or leave a voice message by clicking the link below. There is more going on at VictoryPoint! (head to victorypoint.org for more trainings, events, worship gatherings, discipleship opportunities, giving, and ways to get connected). Here's the full text from today's scripture: 25:1 ""Then the kingdom of heaven will be like this. Ten bridesmaids took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 25:2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 25:3 When the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them; 25:4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 25:5 As the bridegroom was delayed, all of them became drowsy and slept. 25:6 But at midnight there was a shout, 'Look! Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 25:7 Then all those bridesmaids got up and trimmed their lamps. 25:8 The foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 25:9 But the wise replied, 'No! there will not be enough for you and for us; you had better go to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.' 25:10 And while they went to buy it, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went with him into the wedding banquet; and the door was shut. 25:11 Later the other bridesmaids came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.' 25:12 But he replied, 'Truly I tell you, I do not know you.' 25:13 Keep awake therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/biblereadingplanvp/message

Politics in Washington, D.C., is often antithetical to the teachings of Jesus. Rev. Jim Wallis and Rev. Rob Schenk, the president of the Dietrich Bonhoffer Institute, discuss the spiritual cost of placing access to power above the gospel.Schenk recalled, "I was present sitting at a table when it happened in Cleveland, during the Republican National Convention. I was at the table and a colleague, a very well-known evangelical leader who had run for president himself, turned to me and said, 'Look, we'll plug our noses. We'll cast our vote for Donald Trump. And then we'll go and puke if we have to.' And that was the deal. It was a corruption of the soul. It would give us access and ability to manipulate the levers of power, but it would exact a huge price from us."

Watching big tech censor real corruption never gets old; I'll analyze and contextualize this week's Biden Bombshell. Plus the exciting moments from Amy Coney Barrett's hearing confirmation hearings and my real-time breakdown of Nancy's Pelosi's meltdown with Wolf. Links: The New York Post’s Hunter Biden smear story doesn’t make any sense | Media Matters for America (https://www.mediamatters.org/rudy-giuliani/new-york-posts-hunter-biden-smear-story-doesnt-make-any-sense) Nancy Pelosi goes into meltdown and calls CNN's Wolf Blitzer a 'Republican apologist' | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8837465/Nancy-Pelosi-goes-meltdown-calls-CNNs-Wolf-Blitzer-Republican-apologist.html) Nancy Pelosi has meltdown during CNN interview as she is challenged over holding up Trump’s $1.8tn stimulus – The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12924547/nancy-pelosi-wolf-blitzer-clash-stimulus-package-meltdown/) House Judiciary Committee Republicans Release Hunter Emails (https://republicans-judiciary.house.gov/press-release/smoking-gun-email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-businessman-to-vp-dad/) Biden Email LEAK Shows Evidence Joe Biden LIED About Ukraine Dealings, Democrats Are Freaking Out - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB0gVgxTQOs) Smoking-gun email reveals how Hunter Biden introduced Ukrainian businessman to dad | New York Post - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PBuswEKj3Y) Mike Arrington's DM (https://twitter.com/arrington/status/1316450810189012992) Twitter warns users that Hunter Biden story in New York Post may be 'unsafe' - Washington Times (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/14/twitter-warns-users-hunter-biden-story-new-york-po/) Facebook Slows Spread of N.Y. Post Biden Story to Fact-Check (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/facebook-to-reduce-distribution-of-new-york-post-story-on-bidens/ar-BB1a1C6B?ocid=uxbndlbing) Joe Biden's campaign DENIES he met Hunter's Ukrainian business partner | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8838939/Joe-Biden-met-son-Hunters-Ukrainian-energy-contacts.html) Trump Says He's 'Not Happy' With Bill Barr (https://www.mediaite.com/news/im-not-happy-trump-wont-commit-to-keeping-barr-as-ag-if-he-wins-reelection/) 2020 General Election Early Vote Statistics (https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html) Pro-Trump Group Closes Campaign by Shopping Dirt on the Lincoln Project (https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-trump-group-closes-campaign-by-shopping-dirt-on-the-lincoln-project) Nuland-Pyatt leaked phone conversation _COMPLETE with SUBTITLES - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k) Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957) Facebook and Twitter are restricting a disputed New York Post story about Joe Biden’s son - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/14/21515972/facebook-new-york-post-hunter-biden-story-fact-checking-reduced-distribution-election-misinformation?scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4) 'Look for Power in the Shadows': Watch Sheldon Whitehouse Shine Light on 'Dark Money Operation' Behind GOP Supreme Court Takeover | Common Dreams News (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/10/14/look-power-shadows-watch-sheldon-whitehouse-shine-light-dark-money-operation-behind) Sheldon Whitehouse Goes Dark - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/sheldon-whitehouse-goes-dark-11600816031) Alyssa Farah slams Pelosi for calling CNN apologist for GOP: 'News to me' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-trump-cnn-coronavirus-aid-white-house) Obama conference call leaked to Burisma, Biden emails show | The Spectator | Truth Conquers All (https://thespectator.info/2020/10/14/obama-conference-call-leaked-to-burisma-biden-emails-show/) Email reveals how Hunter Biden introduced Ukrainian biz man to dad (https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/) Pelosi Can Save Obamacare With a One-Line Amendment - The American Prospect (https://prospect.org/health/pelosi-can-save-obamacare-with-a-one-line-amendment-updated/) Ghislaine Maxwell lawyers attempt to keep deposition details secret | Ghislaine Maxwell | The Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/13/ghislaine-maxwell-lawyers-jeffrey-epstein-court) Pelosi calls CNN's Blitzer an 'apologist' for the GOP in heated exchange over stimulus bill (https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/pelosi-calls-cn-ns-blitzer-an-apologist-for-the-gop-in-heated-exchange-over-stimulus-bill-230555851.html) Nancy Pelosi calls Wolf Blitzer a GOP 'apologist' in on-air spat (https://nypost.com/2020/10/13/nancy-pelosi-calls-wolf-blitzer-a-gop-apologist-in-on-air-spat/amp/) Biden endures gaffe-laden day on the hustings in Ohio - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loY_9Y5RkFg) Declassified Russia documents: How Team Trump used Fox News as a laundromat for unverified Russian information about top Democrats - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/11/politics/fox-news-ratcliffe-russia-intelligence/) Johnson & Johnson pauses COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials due to 'unexplained illness' | KOMO (https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/johnson-johnson-temporarily-pauses-covid-19-vaccine-clinical-trials) White House physician says Trump has tested negative with COVID rapid test - Axios (https://www.axios.com/trump-tested-negative-covid-63a99afd-2036-4d00-886e-fc9a3d9cd76f.html) White House pushes Pentagon to jumpstart a national 5G network - Axios (https://www.axios.com/white-house-pushes-pentagon-to-jumpstart-a-national-5g-network-c47ac4b2-628e-4d40-935b-dd98cbc601ec.html) Nancy Pelosi Invests $1 Million to Cyber-Security Firm That Faked Evidence During Russia-gate Scandal - Big League Politics (https://archive.vn/7cnwE) Pelosis Take a Big Stake in CrowdStrike, Democrat-Connected Linchpin of Russia Probe | RealClearInvestigations (https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2020/10/09/pelosi_takes_big_stake_in_crowdstrike_democrat-tied_linchpin_of_russiagate_125557.html) https://twitter.com/dailycallout/status/1315269061610074112 (https://twitter.com/dailycallout/status/1315269061610074112) https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1315515866109407232?s=20 (https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1315515866109407232?s=20) Fauci says Trump campaign should take down ad - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/12/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus-campaign-ad-cnntv/index.html) Joe Biden Allies Ponder: Skip Debate or Let Trump Blow Himself Up Again? (https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-allies-ponder-skip-debate-or-let-trump-blow-himself-up-again) Five Eyes governments, India, and Japan make new call for encryption backdoors | ZDNet (https://www.zdnet.com/article/five-eyes-governments-india-and-japan-make-new-call-for-encryption-backdoors/) Grey Reads The 25th Amendment - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJlOb7n_iCI) Joe Biden Leads Donald Trump By 8.5 Points In IBD/TIPP 2020 Election Tracking Poll (https://www.investors.com/news/joe-biden-leads-donald-trump-ibd-tipp-2020-election-tracking-poll-oct-12/) Gamblers stake $150M on election, bet the farm on Biden (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/gamblers-stake-150m-on-election-bet-the-farm-on-biden) Democrats and Republicans dismiss Trump's coronavirus stimulus offer (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/10/pelosi-dismisses-trump-coronavirus-stimulus-offer.html) ABC host says White House blocked Fauci from appearing on show - Axios (https://www.axios.com/abc-this-week-fauci-white-house-981a0d0b-d9f8-4759-b658-dd082de7d317.html) The Taliban on Trump: "We hope he will win the election" and withdraw U.S. troops - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/) Commission cancels second debate between Trump and Biden - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/09/politics/second-presidential-debate-canceled/index.html) Investment bankers say a Biden victory could be great for Wall Street and stocks (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/investment-bankers-say-a-biden-victory-could-be-great-for-wall-street-and-stocks) Trump says he stopped taking medications to combat ... (https://news.trust.org/item/20201009234410-lxui7) Fauci Calls White House Amy Coney Barrett Ceremony a ‘Super-Spreader Event’ - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-09/fauci-calls-white-house-ceremony-a-super-spreader-event) Trump Won’t Travel Over Weekend, Ending Florida Rally Plan - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-09/trump-won-t-travel-over-weekend-ending-florida-rally-plan) White House Blocked C.D.C. From Requiring Masks on Public Transportation - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/health/coronavirus-covid-masks-cdc.html) Nancy Pelosi unveils 25th amendment plan to oust president from office after accusing Trump of being in ‘altered state’ (https://www.the-sun.com/news/1607421/nancy-pelosi-25th-amendment-donald-trump-friday/) Here's US Homeland Security collaring a suspected arsonist after asking Google for the IP addresses of folks who made a specific search • The Register (https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/09/google_search_arrest/) The US debt is now projected to be larger than the US economy - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/economy/deficit-debt-pandemic-cbo/index.html) Nancy Pelosi's latest coup-coup nonsense (https://nypost.com/2020/10/08/nancy-pelosis-latest-coup-coup-nonsense/) Russia Hoax — Declassified CIA Memo Reveals Clinton Role | Intel Today (https://inteltoday.org/2020/10/08/russia-hoax-declassified-cia-memo-reveals-clinton-role/) Joe Biden to attend town hall event after Trump pulls out of second debate - Axios (https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-town-hall-event-second-presidential-debate-b38f151e-2b85-468c-b54c-841e7839141b.html)

Charles MansonManson was born to a 15 or 16 year old (depending on the source) girl in Cincinnati Oh. on Nov 12,1934. His Mother, Kathleen Maddox, did not even bother to give him a real name on his birth certificate. On it he is listed as No Name Maddox. There is not 100% surety who his father is, but most likely it is a man named Colonel Scott Sr. When Kathleen told him she was pregnant he told her he'd been called away on army business, which he lied to her about being in, and after several months she realized he was not returning.  It is assumed this is the father as Kathleen brought a paternity suit against Scott and this lead to an agreed judgement in 1937, which is basically a settlement between the two without Scott having to admit to being the father. Within the first few weeks Kathleen decided on the name Charles Milles after her father. Kathleen, then had a short lived marriage to a man named William Eugene Manson. The marriage lasted around three years, during which time Kathleen often went on drinking benders with her brother Luther. She would leave Charles with different babysitters all the time. This obviously caused issues with William and he filed for divorce citing “gross neglect of duty” on the part of Kathleen. Charles would retain the last name of Manson after the divorce as he was born after the two married. During one of her drinking sprees she had taken Charles with her to a cafe. The waitress commented about how cute Charles was and that she wanted kids of her own. Kathleen said to the waitress “ pitcher of beer and he’s yours.” The waitress obviously presumed she was kidding but brought her an extra pitcher of beer anyway to be nice. Well, true to her word, Kathleen finished her pitcher and left, leaving the boy there. Days later Manson's uncle would track him down and bring him home. What. The. Fuck!         When he was 5 years old, his mother and her brother Luther were arrested for robbing a man. Mother of the year, folks! Reportedly, Luther pressed a ketchup bottle filled with salt into The man's back, pretending it was a gun. He then smashed the bottle over The man’s head, and the siblings stole $27 before fleeing. Police caught up to the pair shortly after and arrested the two. Kathkleen received 5 years in prison and Luther 10. Charles was sent to live with his aunt and uncle in west virginia. Biographer Jeff Guinn related a story about Manson's childhood. When Manson was 5 years old and living with his family in West Virginia, his uncle reportedly forced him to wear his cousin Jo Ann's dress to school as punishment for crying in front of his first-grade class. In the biography, Guinn shares his perspective:  “It didn't matter what some teacher had done to make him cry; what was important was to do something drastic that would convince Charlie never to act like a sissy again.”   In first grade, Manson persuaded girls to beat up the boys he didn't like. When the principal questioned him, Manson offered the same defense he would later use after influencing his Family to commit the Tate-LaBianca murders:  “It wasn't me; they were doing what they wanted.” In 1942, the prison released Manson’s mother, Kathleen, on parole after she served three years. When she returned home, she gave Manson a hug. He later described this as his only happy memory from childhood. A few weeks after this homecoming, the family would move to Charleston WV. Here Manson would constantly be truant from school and his mother continued her hard drinking ways. His mother was again arrested for theft but was not convicted. After this the family would move again, this time to Indianapolis. While in Indianapolis his mother met an alcoholic with the last name Lewis while attending AA meetings. The two would marry in 1943. That same year Manson claims to have set his school on fire at the age of 9.  *christmas present story*       At the age of 13 Manson was placed into the Gibault School for Boys in Terre Haute Indiana. The school was for delinquent boys and run by strict catholic priests. There were severe punishments for even minor infractions, obviously. These included beating with a wooden paddle or lashes from a leather strap. Manson escaped the school and slept in the woods, under bridges and pretty much anywhere he could find shelter. He made his way back home and spent Christmas of 1947 with his aunt and uncle back in WV. After this his mother sent him back to the school where he would escape, yet again ten  months later and headed back to Indy. There, in 1948 he would commit his first known crime. He would rob a grocery store looking for something to eat, but came across a box containing around 100 dollars. He would take this and get a hotel room in a shitty part of town and buy food as well.        After this robbery he tried to get on the straight and narrow by getting a job delivering messages for Western Union. The straight path he was on would not last long though, as he started to supplement his income with petty theft. He was caught and in 1949 a judge sent him to Boys Town, a juvenile facility in Omaha, Nebraska. After spending a whopping 4 days at Boys Town, Manson and a fellow student named Blackie Nielson obtained a gun and stole a car. The boys decided to head to Nielson’s uncle's house in Peoria IL. Along the way they would commit two armed robberies. When they got to the uncle’s, who was a professional thief, they were recruited as apprentices in thievery. Manson was arrested a couple weeks  later as part of a raid and during the subsequent investigation was linked to the two earlier armed robberies. He was then sent to the Indiana School For Boys, another very strict reform school.       At the reform school Manson alleged to have been raped by other students at the urging of a staff member. He was also beaten very often and ran away from the school 18..count em...18 times! Manson developed what he called “the insane game” as a form of self defense while at the school.  When he was physically unable to defend himself, he would start screaming and screeching, making faces and grimacing, and waving his arms all over the place in an attempt to make his attackers think he was insane! After all of his failed attempts at running away and escaping, he finally succeeded in escaping with two other boys in february of 1951. The three boys decided to head to california, stealing cars and robbing gas stations along the way. They ended up getting arrested in Utah and Manson was sent to the National Training Center for Boys in  washington dc for the federal crime of driving a stolen car across state lines. When he got to the center he was given a test that determined he was illiterate even though he showed a slightly above average IQ of 109. Average in the US is around 98-100. Hise caseworker also deemed him “aggressively antisocial” When Charlie was being considered for a transfer to Natural Bridge Honor Camp, a minimum security institution, a psychiatric evaluation was required.On October 24 1951, Charlie was transferred to the Natural Bridge Honor Camp in Petersburg, Virginia. His parole hearing was scheduled for February 1952. On October 24, 1951, when his Aunt Joanne visited, she promised Charlie and the authorities that when he was released, she and his Uncle Bill would look after him, provide him with a place to live, and a job.Psychiatrist Dr. Block, explained in a prison and probation report that his life of abuse, rejection, instability, and emotional pain had turned him into a slick but extremely sensitive boy:        "[Manson] Tries to give the impression of trying hard although actually not putting forth any effort ... marked degree of rejection, instability and psychic trauma ... constantly striving for status ... a fairly slick institutionalized youth who has not given up in terms of securing some kind of love and affection from the world ... dangerous ... should not be trusted across the street ... homosexual and assaultative [sic] tendencies ... safe only under supervision ... unpredictable ... in spite of his age he is criminally sophisticated and grossly unsuited for retention in an open reformatory type institution.”In January 1952, less than a month before his parole date, Charlie sodomized a boy with a razor to his throat. He was reclassified him as dangerous and transferred to a tougher, higher security, lock up facility; the Federal Reformatory at Petersburg, Virginia,.By August 1952, he had eight major violations including three sexual assaults. He was classified as a dangerous offender and characterized as "defiantly homosexual, dangerous, and safe only under supervision" and as having "assaultive tendencies."September 22 1952, Charlie was transferred to the Federal Reformatory in Chillicothe, Ohio, a higher security institution. He was a "model prisoner." There was a major improvement in his attitude. He learned to read and understand math. On January 1, 1954, he was honored with a Meritorious Service Award for his scholastic accomplishments and his work in the Transportation Unit for maintenance and repair of institution vehicles.While incarcerated at Chillicothe, Charlie met the notorious American Syndicate gangster, Frank Costello, aka "Prime Minister of the Underworld," a close associate of the powerful underworld boss, Lucky Luciano.In the book, Manson: In His Own Words (1986), by Nuel Emmons, Manson, obviously impressed by with Costello's professional crime background states:"When I walked down the halls with him [Costello] or sat at the same table for meals, I probably experienced the same sensation an honest kid would get out of being with Joe DiMaggio or Mickey Mantel: admiration bordering on worship. To me, if Costello did something, right or wrong, that was the way it was supposed to be... Yeah, I admired Frank Costello, and I listened to and believed everything he said."Charlie's parole on May 8, 1954, stipulated that he live with Aunt Joanne and Uncle Bill in McMechen, West Virginia. Now at nineteen years-old, for the first time since his mother gave him up when he was 12, Charlie was legally free .Soon after Manson gained his freedom, his mother was released from prison. She moved to nearby Wheeling, West Virginia and soon Charlie moved in with her.In January 1955, Manson married a hospital waitress named Rosalie Jean Willis. Around October, about three months after he and his pregnant wife arrived in Los Angeles in a car he had stolen in Ohio, Manson was again charged with a federal crime for taking the vehicle across state lines. After a psychiatric evaluation, he was given five years' probation. Manson's failure to appear at a Los Angeles hearing on an identical charge filed in Florida resulted in his March 1956 arrest in Indianapolis. His probation was revoked; he was sentenced to three years' imprisonment at Terminal Island, San Pedro, California.While Manson was in prison, Rosalie gave birth to their son Charles Manson Jr. During his first year at Terminal Island, Manson received visits from Rosalie and his mother, who were now living together in Los Angeles. In March 1957, when the visits from his wife ceased, his mother informed him Rosalie was living with another man. Less than two weeks before a scheduled parole hearing, Manson tried to escape by stealing a car. He was given five years' probation and his parole was denied.Manson received five years' parole in September 1958, the same year in which Rosalie received a decree of divorce. By November, he was pimping a 16-year-old girl and was receiving additional support from a girl with wealthy parents. In September 1959, he pleaded guilty to a charge of attempting to cash a forged U.S. Treasury check, which he claimed to have stolen from a mailbox; the latter charge was later dropped. He received a 10-year suspended sentence and probation after a young woman named Leona, who had an arrest record for prostitution, made a "tearful plea" before the court that she and Manson were "deeply in love ... and would marry if Charlie were freed".  Before the year's end, the woman did marry Manson, possibly so she would not be required to testify against him.Manson took Leona and another woman to New Mexico for purposes of prostitution, resulting in him being held and questioned for violating the Mann Act. Though he was released, Manson correctly suspected that the investigation had not ended. When he disappeared in violation of his probation, a bench warrant was issued. An indictment for violation of the Mann Act followed in April 1960. Following the arrest of one of the women for prostitution, Manson was arrested in June in Laredo, Texas, and was returned to Los Angeles. For violating his probation on the check-cashing charge, he was ordered to serve his ten-year sentence.Manson spent a year trying unsuccessfully to appeal the revocation of his probation. In July 1961, he was transferred from the Los Angeles County Jail to the United States Penitentiary at McNeil Island, Washington. There, he took guitar lessons from Barker–Karpis gang leader Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, and obtained from another inmate a contact name of someone at Universal Studios in Hollywood, Phil Kaufman.  According to Jeff Guinn's 2013 biography of Manson, his mother moved to Washington State to be closer to him during his McNeil Island incarceration, working nearby as a waitress.Although the Mann Act charge had been dropped, the attempt to cash the Treasury check was still a federal offense. Manson's September 1961 annual review noted he had a "tremendous drive to call attention to himself", an observation echoed in September 1964.  In 1963, Leona was granted a divorce. During the process she alleged that she and Manson had a son, Charles Luther. According to a popular urban legend, Manson auditioned unsuccessfully for the Monkees in late 1965; this is refuted by the fact that Manson was still incarcerated at McNeil Island at that time.In June 1966, Manson was sent for the second time to Terminal Island in preparation for early release. By the time of his release day on March 21, 1967, he had spent more than half of his 32 years in prisons and other institutions. This was mainly because he had broken federal laws. Federal sentences were, and remain, much more severe than state sentences for many of the same offenses. Telling the authorities that prison had become his home, he requested permission to stay. In 1967, 32-year-old Charles Manson was released from prison once again (this time, from a correctional facility in the state of Washington). He then made his way to San Francisco and quickly found a home in the counter-culture movement there.Manson created a cult around himself called the "Family" that he hoped to use to bring about Armageddon through a race war. He named this scenario "Helter Skelter," after the 1968 Beatles song of the same name.Living mostly by begging, Manson soon became acquainted with Mary Brunner, a 23-year-old graduate of the University of Wisconsin–Madison. Brunner was working as a library assistant at the University of California, Berkeley, and Manson moved in with her. According to a second-hand account, he overcame her resistance to his bringing other women in to live with them. Before long, they were sharing Brunner's residence with eighteen other women.Manson established himself as a guru in San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district, which during 1967's "Summer of Love" was emerging as the signature hippie locale. Manson appeared to have borrowed his philosophy from the Process Church of the Final Judgment, whose members believed Satan would become reconciled to Christ and they would come together at the end of the world to judge humanity. Manson soon had the first of his groups of followers, which have been called the "Manson Family", most of them female. Manson taught his followers that they were the reincarnation of the original Christians, and that the Romans were the establishment. He strongly implied that he was Christ; he often told a story envisioning himself on the cross with the nails in his feet and hands. Sometime around 1967, he began using the alias "Charles Willis Manson." He often said it very slowly ("Charles's Will Is Man's Son")—implying that his will was the same as that of the Son of Man.Before the end of the summer, Manson and eight or nine of his enthusiasts piled into an old school bus they had re-wrought in hippie style, with colored rugs and pillows in place of the many seats they had removed. They roamed as far north as Washington state, then southward through Los Angeles, Mexico, and the American Southwest. Returning to the Los Angeles area, they lived in Topanga Canyon, Malibu, and Venice—western parts of the city and county.Having learned how to play guitar in prison he did his best to wow artists like Neil Young and The Mamas and Papas, his idiosyncratic folk music failed to generate enthusiasm until he was introduced to Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, who saw talent in Manson's playing.  Wilson allowed Manson and several of "his girls" — who had by now begun coalescing around him because they believed he was a  guru with prophetic powers — to stay with him at his mansion in June 1968. Wilson eventually kicked them out after they began causing trouble, but Manson later accused the Beach Boys of reworking one of his songs and including it on their 1969 album "20/20" without crediting him. In 1967, Brunner became pregnant by Manson and, on April 15, 1968, gave birth to a son she named Valentine Michael (nicknamed "Pooh Bear") in a condemned house in Topanga Canyon, assisted during the birth by several of the young women from the Family. Brunner (like most members of the group) acquired a number of aliases and nicknames, including: "Marioche", "Och", "Mother Mary", "Mary Manson", "Linda Dee Manson" and "Christine Marie Euchts". Manson established a base for the Family at the Spahn Ranch in August 1968 after Wilson's landlord evicted them. It had been a television and movie set for Westerns, but the buildings had deteriorated by the late 1960s and the ranch's revenue was primarily derived from selling horseback rides. Female Family members did chores around the ranch and, occasionally, had sex on Manson's orders with the nearly blind 80 year-old owner George Spahn. The women also acted as seeing-eye guides for him. In exchange, Spahn allowed Manson and his group to live at the ranch for free.  Lynette Fromme acquired the nickname "Squeaky" because she often squeaked when Spahn pinched her thigh.Charles Watson, a small-town Texan who had quit college and moved to California, soon joined the group at the ranch. He met Manson at Wilson's house; Watson had given Wilson a ride while Wilson was hitchhiking after his car was wrecked. Spahn nicknamed him "Tex" because of his pronounced Texas drawl. Manson follower Dianne Lake (just 14 when she met Manson) detailed long nights of lectures, in which Manson instructed others at the ranch to take LSD and listen to him preach about the past, present and future of humanity.  With his “family” coming together, manson began his work with Helter Skelter. The following excerpt about Helter Skelter is taken from wikipedia, Sources were double check for accuracy and we just figured this would be a quick review. We have added a few things to fill it out...so don't @ us bros ;) In the first days of November 1968, Manson established the Family at alternative headquarters in Death Valley's environs, where they occupied two unused or little-used ranches, Myers and Barker.[20][25] The former, to which the group had initially headed, was owned by the grandmother of a new woman (Catherine Gillies) in the Family. The latter was owned by an elderly local woman (Arlene Barker) to whom Manson presented himself and a male Family member as musicians in need of a place congenial to their work. When the woman agreed to let them stay if they'd fix things up, Manson honored her with one of the Beach Boys' gold records,[25] several of which he had been given by Wilson.[26]While back at Spahn Ranch, no later than December, Manson and Watson visited a Topanga Canyon acquaintance who played them the Beatles' recently released double album, The Beatles (also known as the "White Album").[20][27][28] Manson became obsessed with the group.[29] At McNeil Island prison, Manson had told fellow inmates, including Karpis, that he could surpass the group in fame;[7]:200–202, 265[30] to the Family, he spoke of the group as "the soul" and "part of the hole in the infinite".[28]For some time, Manson had been saying that racial tensions between blacks and whites were about to erupt, predicting that blacks would rise up in rebellion in America's cities.[31][32] On a bitterly cold New Year's Eve at Myers Ranch, as the Family gathered outside around a large fire, Manson explained that the social turmoil he had been predicting had also been predicted by the Beatles.[28] The White Album songs, he declared, foretold it all in code. In fact, he maintained (or would soon maintain), the album was directed at the Family, an elect group that was being instructed to preserve the worthy from the impending disaster.[31][32]In early January 1969, the Family left the desert's cold and moved to a canary-yellow home in Canoga Park, not far from the Spahn Ranch.[7]:244–247[28][33] Because this locale would allow the group to remain "submerged beneath the awareness of the outside world",[7]:244–247[34] Manson called it the Yellow Submarine, another Beatles reference. There, Family members prepared for the impending apocalypse, which around the campfire Manson had termed "Helter Skelter", after the song of that name.By February, Manson's vision was complete. The Family would create an album whose songs, as subtle as those of the Beatles, would trigger the predicted chaos. Ghastly murders of whites by blacks would be met with retaliation, and a split between racist and non-racist whites would yield whites' self-annihilation. The blacks' triumph, as it were, would merely precede their being ruled by the Family, which would ride out the conflict in "the bottomless pit", a secret city beneath Death Valley. At the Canoga Park house, while Family members worked on vehicles and pored over maps to prepare for their desert escape, they also worked on songs for their world-changing album. When they were told Melcher was to come to the house to hear the material, the women prepared a meal and cleaned the place. However, Melcher never arrived.  Crimes of the Family On May 18, 1969, Terry Melcher visited Spahn Ranch to hear Manson and the women sing. Melcher arranged a subsequent visit, not long thereafter, during which he brought a friend who possessed a mobile recording unit, but Melcher did not record the group.By June, Manson was telling the Family they might have to show blacks how to start "Helter Skelter". When Manson tasked Watson with obtaining money, supposedly intended to help the Family prepare for the conflict, Watson defrauded a black drug dealer named Bernard "Lotsapoppa" Crowe. Crowe responded with a threat to wipe out everyone at Spahn Ranch. The family countered on July 1, 1969, by shooting Crowe at Manson's Hollywood apartment.Manson's belief that he had killed Crowe was seemingly confirmed by a news report of the discovery of the dumped body of a Black Panther in Los Angeles. Although Crowe was not a member of the Black Panthers, Manson concluded he had been and expected retaliation from the Panthers. He turned Spahn Ranch into a defensive camp, with night patrols of armed guards.] "If we'd needed any more proof that Helter Skelter was coming down very soon, this was it," Tex Watson would later write. "Blackie was trying to get at the chosen ones." Gary Allen Hinman The murder of Gary Hinman committed by Bobby Beausoleil forever changed the course of the now-infamous cult; at one time sold to followers as the embodiment of free love, the incident set Manson’s cult on a path for the unparalleled brutality and violence that continues to captivate the world nearly 50 years after the fact.New murder minutiaeBeausoleil provided new details about the murder that started it all as part of a two-hour Fox special “Inside the Manson Cult: The Lost Tapes" that aired in 2018. As part of the jailhouse interview, Beausoleil detailed Hinman's relationship to the Family, the circumstances around the 34-year-old musician's death, and why Beausoleil felt he "had no way out" other than going forward with his brutal act."Fear is not a rational emotion and when it sets in. Things get out of control—as they certainly did with Charlie and me," he said during the special.Hinman, a talented piano player who once played at Carnegie Hall, was described by his cousin as a "lost artistic soul,” according to People magazine—one who would wind up falling in with the wrong crowd and befriending the Manson Family. "Gary was a friend. He didn't do anything to deserve what happened to him and I am responsible for that," Beausoleil said from the California Medical Facility, a male prison, where he's serving a life sentence.According to Dianne Lake, who also participated in the TV special to discuss her time as a Manson devotee, Family members had been to Hinman's house several times before his murder. Beausoleil had purchased drugs from Hinman during the summer of 1969. He sold them to another person, who then complained about their quality, causing Beausoleil to need his money back. "Bobby was driven over there to make it right with two girls that knew Gary very well. In fact, I think he had slept with both of them: Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner," former follower Catherine "Gypsy" Share said during the special. But Hinman didn't have the money. After Beausoleil, an aspiring actor and musician, roughed Gary up a bit, they called Manson, who decided to come to the house with a samurai sword. When he arrived, Manson took the sword and made a swipe across Hinman's face from his ear down his cheek. "It was bleeding a lot," John Douglas, a retired FBI agent who later interviewed Manson, said in the special. Beausoleil asked Manson why he had cut the man's face. "He said, 'To show you how to be a man.' His exact words," Beausoleil said. "I will never forget that."According to Beausoleil, who at one time was given the nickname "Cupid" for his good looks, he tried to patch the wound up and "make things right." Hinman, however, insisted on receiving medical attention—which is when things took a fatal turn."I knew if I took him, I'd end up going to prison. Gary would tell on me, for sure, and he would tell on Charlie and everyone else," Beausoleil said in the interview "It was at that point I realized I had no way out."According to the San Diego Union Tribune, Hinman was tortured over three days before he was killed. Beausoleil, for  his part, admitted to stabbing Hinman twice in the chest. The family reportedly used Hinman’s blood to scribble the words “Political Piggy” on the wall after the murder, according to CBS News, and also included a panther paw to try and pin the slaying on the Black Panthers (Manson was known for his desire to incite a race war).Beausoleil, along with Bruce Davis, was later arrested for  the murder.The murder catapulted the Manson family into a new level of violence. Although they had been training and preparing for a supposed race war for some time at Spahn Ranch, they had now become the aggressors and instigators of violence."This is when things start getting really dire, I mean really murderous," Lake said during the Fox program. Several weeks later, Manson Family followers would go on to murder Tate, writer Wojciech Frykowski, coffee heiress Abigail Folger, celebrity hair stylist Jay Sebring, and Steven Parent, who had come to  visit the gardener on Polanski’s property. The next night, the group would break into the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca and kill the couple. Beausoleil was sentenced to death for his role in Hinman’s murder, but the sentence was later commuted to life in prison. In January of 2019, he was recommended for parole during his 19th appearance before a parole board, according to CNN. His attorney Jason Campbell argued that he should be released from prison because he hasn't been a danger to society in decades. "He has spent the last 50 years gradually growing and improving himself and in particular, over the last few decades, he's been pretty much a model inmate," he said.However, California Gov. Gavin Newsom later overruled the recommendation, keeping Beusoleil behind bars, the Associated Press reports.As he sat in his cell and reflected on his past crime, Beausoleil told the team behind the Fox special that he is filled with regret over the death of his one-time friend."What I've wished a thousand times is that I had faced the music,” he said. “Instead, I killed him.”Tate- Labianca murdersOn the night of August 8, 1969, Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian were sent by Charlie to the old home of Terry Melcher at 10050 Cielo Drive. Their instructions were to kill everyone at the house and make it appear like Hinman's murder, with words and symbols written in blood on the walls. As Charlie Manson had said earlier in the day after choosing the group, "Now is the time for Helter Skelter."What the group did not know was that Terry Melcher was no longer residing in the home and that it was being rented by film director Roman Polanski and his wife, actress Sharon Tate. Tate was two weeks away from giving birth and Polanski was delayed in London while working on his film, The Day of the Dolphin. Because Sharon was so close to giving birth, the couple arranged for friends to stay with her until Polanski could get home.After dining together at the El Coyote restaurant, Sharon Tate, celebrity hairstylist Jay Sebring, Folger coffee heiress Abigail Folger and her lover Wojciech Frykowski, returned to the Polanski's home on Cleo Drive at around 10:30 p.m. Wojciech fell asleep on the living room couch, Abigail Folger went to her bedroom to read, and Sharon Tate and Sebring were in Sharon's bedroom talking.Steve ParentJust after midnight, Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, and Kasabian arrived at the house. Watson climbed a telephone pole and cut the phone line going to the Polanski's house. Just as the group entered the estate grounds, they saw a car approaching. Inside the car was 18-year-old Steve Parent who had been visiting the property's caretaker, William Garreston.As Parent approached the driveway's electronic gate, he rolled down the window to reach out and push the gate's button, and Watson descended on him, yelling at him to halt. Seeing that Watson was armed with a revolver and knife, Parent began to plead for his life. Unfazed, Watson slashed at Parent, then shot him four times, killing him instantly.The Rampage InsideAfter murdering Parent, the group headed for the house. Watson told Kasabian to be on the lookout by the front gate. The other three family members entered the Polanski home. Charles "Tex" Watson went to the living room and confronted Frykowski who was asleep. Not fully awake, Frykowski asked what time it was and Watson kicked him in the head. When Frykowski asked who he was, Watson answered, "I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business."Susan Atkins went to Sharon Tate's bedroom with a buck knife and ordered Tate and Sebring to go into the living room. She then went and got Abigail Folger. The four victims were told to sit on the floor. Watson tied a rope around Sebring's neck, flung it over a ceiling beam, then tied the other side around Sharon's neck. Watson then ordered them to lie on their stomachs. When Sebring voiced his concerns that Sharon was too pregnant to lay on her stomach, Watson shot him and then kicked him while he died.Knowing now that the intent of the intruders was murder, the three remaining victims began to struggle for survival. Patricia Krenwinkel attacked Abigail Folger and after being stabbed multiple times, Folger broke free and attempted to run from the house. Krenwinkel followed close behind and managed to tackle Folger out on the lawn and stabbed her repeatedly.Inside, Frykowski struggled with Susan Atkins when she attempted to tie his hands. Atkins stabbed him four times in the leg, then Watson came over and beat Frykowski over the head with his revolver. Frykowski somehow managed to escape out onto the lawn and began screaming for help.While the microbe scene was going on inside the house, all Kasabian could hear was screaming. She ran to the house just as Frykowski was escaping out the front door. According to Kasabian, she looked into the eyes of the mutilated man and horrified at what she saw, she told him that she was sorry. Minutes later, Frykowski was dead on the front lawn.Watson shot him twice, then stabbed him to death.Seeing that Krenwinkel was struggling with Folger, Watson went over and the two continued to stab Abigail mercilessly. According to killer's statements later given to the authorities, Abigail begged them to stop stabbing her saying, "I give up, you've got me", and "I'm already dead". The final victim at 10050 Cielo Drive was Sharon Tate. Knowing that her friends were likely dead, Sharon begged for the life of her baby. Unmoved, Atkins held Sharon Tate down while Watson stabbed her multiple times, killing her. Atkins then used Sharon's blood to write "Pig" on a wall. Atkins later said that Sharon Tate called out for her mother as she was being murdered and that she tasted her blood and found it "warm and sticky."According to the autopsy reports, 102 stab wounds were found on the four victims.The Labianca MurdersThe next day Manson, Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Steve Grogan, Leslie Van Houten, and Linda Kasabian went to the home of Leno and Rosemary Labianca. Manson and Watson tied up the couple and Manson left. He told Van Houten and Krenwinkel to go in and kill the LaBiancas. The three separated the couple and murdered them, then had dinner and a shower and hitchhiked back to Spahn Ranch. Manson, Atkins, Grogan, and Kasabian drove around looking for other people to kill but failed.Manson and The Family ArrestedAt Spahn Ranch rumors of the group's involvement began to circulate. So did the police helicopters above the ranch, but because of an unrelated investigation. Parts of stolen cars were spotted in and around the ranch by police in the helicopters. On August 16, 1969, Manson and The Family were rounded up by police and taken in on suspicion of auto theft (not an unfamiliar charge for Manson). The search warrant ended up being invalid because of a date error and the group was released.Charlie blamed the arrests on Spahn's ranch hand Donald "Shorty" Shea for snitching on the family. It was no secret that Shorty wanted the family off the ranch. Manson decided it was time for the family to move to Barker Ranch near Death Valley, but before leaving, Manson, Bruce Davis, Tex Watson and Steve Grogan killed Shorty and buried his body behind the ranch.The Barker Ranch RaidThe Family moved onto the Barker Ranch and spent time turning stolen cars into dune buggies. On October 10, 1969, Barker Ranch was raided after investigators spotted stolen cars on the property and traced evidence of an arson back to Manson. Manson was not around during the first Family roundup, but returned on October 12 and was arrested with seven other family members. When police arrived Manson hid under a small bathroom cabinet but was quickly discovered.The Confession of Susan AtkinsOne of the biggest breaks in the case came when Susan Atkins boasted in detail about the murders to her prison cellmates. She gave specific details about Manson and the killings. She also told of other famous people the Family planned on killing. Her cellmate reported the information to the authorities and Atkins was offered a life sentence in return for her testimony. She refused the offer but repeated the prison cell story to the grand jury. Later Atkins recanted her grand jury testimony.Investigation and TrialOn September 1, 1969, a ten-year-old boy in Sherman Oaks discovered a .22 caliber Longhorn revolver under a bush near his home. His parents notified the LAPD, who picked up the gun, but failed to make any connection between it and the Tate murders.In October, Inyo County officers raided Barker Ranch, in a remote area south of Death Valley National Monument. Twenty-four members of the Manson Family were arrested, on charges of arson and grand theft. Cult leader Charles Manson (dressed entirely in buckskins) and Susan Atkins were among those arrested.After her arrest, Atkins was housed at Dormitory 8000 in Los Angeles. On November 6, she told another inmate, Virginia Graham, an almost unbelievable tale. She told of "a beautiful cat" named Charles Manson. She told of murder: of finding Sharon Tate, in bed with her bikini bra and underpants, of her victim's futile cries for help, of tasting Tate's blood. Atkins expressed no remorse at all over the killings. She even told Graham a list of celebrities that she and other Family members planned to kill in the future, including Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, Tom Jones, Steve McQueen, and Frank Sinatra. Through an inmate friend of Graham's, Ronnie Howard, word of Atkins's amazing story soon reached the LAPD.About the same time, detectives on the LaBianca case interviewed Al Springer, a member of the Straight Satan biker's group that Manson had tried to recruit into the Family. Word had leaked to police that the Straight Satans might have some knowledge about who was responsible for another recent murder with several similarities to the LaBianca killings. Springer told detectives that Manson had bragged to him in August at Spahn Ranch--after offering him his pick from among the eighteen or so "naked girls" scattered around the ranch--about "knocking off" five people. When Springer told detectives that Manson had said the Tate killers "wrote something on the...refrigerator in blood"--"something about pigs"--, the detectives knew they might be onto something. Still, it struck them as odd that anyone would confess to several murders to someone that they barely knew. It took another member of the Straight Satans, Danny DeCarlo, to move the focus of the investigation decisively to Charles Manson. DeCarlo told police he heard a Manson Family member brag, "We got five piggies," and that Manson had asked him what to use "to decompose a body."On November 18, 1969, the District Attorney and his staff selected Vincent Bugliosi to be the chief prosecutor in the Tate-LaBianca case. The choice was no doubt influenced by Bugliosi's impressive record of winning 103 convictions in 104 felony trials. The day after getting the Tate-LaBianca assignment, Bugliosi joined in a search of the Spahn Movie Ranch, where police gathered .22 caliber bullets and shell casings from a canyon used by Family members for target practice. The next day, the search party moved on to isolated Barker Ranch, the most recent home of the Family, on the edge of Death Valley. In the small house at Barker Ranch, Bugliosi saw the small cabinet under the sink where Manson was found hiding during the October raid. On an abandoned bus in a gully, investigators discovered magazines from World War II, all containing articles about Hitler.Based on Ronnie Howard's account of Susan Atkin's jailhouse confession and interviews conducted with various Manson Family members, the LAPD eventually identified the five persons who participated in the actual Tate and LaBianca murders. The suspects consisted of four women, all in their early twenties, and one man in his mid-twenties: Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten, Linda Kasabian, and Charles "Tex" Watson. Atkins remained in custody at Dormitory 8000. Van Houten was picked up for questioning in California. Watson was arrested by a local sheriff in Texas. Patricia Krenwinkel was apprehended in Mobile, Alabama. Kasabian voluntarily surrendered to local police in Concord, New Hampshire.Knowing that convictions of at least some defendant would require testimony from one of those persons present at the murders, the D. A.'s office first reached a deal with the attorney for Susan Atkins: a promise not to seek the death penalty in return for testimony before the Grand Jury, plus consideration of a further reduction in charges for her continued cooperation during the trial. Atkins appeared before the Grand Jury on December 5. She told the grand jury she was "in love with the reflection" of Charles Manson and that there was "no limit" to what she would do for him. In an emotionless voice, she described the horrific events in the early morning hours of August 9 at the Tate residence. She told of Tate pleading for her life: "Please let me go. All I want to do is have my baby." She described the actual murders, told of returning to the car and stopping along a side street to wash off bloody clothes with a garden house, and of Manson's reaction on their return to Spahn Ranch. Atkins said that on returning to Spahn Ranch she "felt dead." She added, "I feel dead now." After twenty minutes of deliberations, the grand jury returned murder indictments against Manson, Watson, Krenwinkel, Atkins, Kasabian, and Van Houten.THE TRIALProsecutor Vincent Bugliosi talks to the press during trialWhen efforts to extradite Tex Watson from became bogged down in local Texas politics, the District Attorney's Office decided to proceed against the four persons indicted for the Tate-LaBianca murders who were in custody in California. Jury selection began on June 15, 1970 in the eighth floor courtroom of Judge Charles Older in the Hall of Justice in Los Angeles. Manson's request to ask potential jurors "a few simple, childlike questions that are real to me in my reality" was denied. During the voir dire, Manson fixed his penetrating stare for hours, first on Judge Older and then one day on Prosecutor Bugliosi. After getting Manson's stare treatment, Bugliosi took advantage of a recess to slide his chair next to Manson and ask, "What are you trembling about Charlie? Are you afraid of me?" Manson responded, "Bugliosi, you think I'm bad and I'm not." He went on to tell Manson that Atkins was "just a stupid little bitch" who told a story "to get attention." After a month of voir dire, a jury of seven men and five women was selected. The jury knew it would be sequestered for a long time, but it didn't know how long. As it turned out, their sequestration would last 225 days, longer than any previous jury in history.Opening statements began on July 24. Manson entered the courtroom sporting a freshly cut, bloody "X" on his forehead--signifying, he said in a statement, that "I have X'd myself from your world."Bugliosi, in his opening statement for the prosecution, indicated that his "principal witness" would be Linda Kasabian, a Manson Family member who accompanied the killers to both the Tate and LaBianca residences. The prosecution turned to Kasabian, with a promise of prosecutorial immunity for her testimony, when Susan Atkins--probably in response to threats from Manson--announced that she would not testify at the trial. Bugliosi promised the jury that the evidence would show Manson had a motive for the murders that was "perhaps even more bizarre than the murders themselves."On July 27, Bugliosi announced, "The People call Linda Kasabian." Manson's attorney, fabled obstructionist Irving Kanarek, immediately sprung up with an objection, "Object, Your Honor, on the grounds this witness is not competent and is insane!" Calling Kanarek to the bench and telling him his conduct was "outrageous," Judge Older denied the objection and Kasabian was sworn as a witness. She would remain on the stand for an astounding eighteen days, including seven days of cross-examination by Kanarek.Linda KasabianKasabian told the jury that no Family member ever refused an order from Charles Manson: "We always wanted to do anything and everything for him." After describing what she saw of the Tate murders, Kasabian was asked by Bugliosi about the return to Spahn Ranch:"Was there anyone in the parking area at Spahn Ranch as you drove in the Spahn Ranch area?""Yes.""Who was there?""Charlie.""Was there anyone there other than Charlie?""Not that I know of""Where was Charlie when you arrived at the premises?""About the same spot he was in when he first drove away.""What happened after you pulled the car onto the parking area and parked the car?""Sadie said she saw a spot of blood on the outside of the car when we were at the gas station.""Who was present at that time when she said that?""The four of us and Charlie.""What is the next thing that happened?""Well, Charlie told us to go into the kitchen, get a sponge, wipe the blood off, and he also instructed Katie and I to go all through the car and wipe off the blood spots.""What is the next thing that happened after Mr. Manson told you and Katie to check out the car and remove the blood?""He told us to go into the bunk room and wait, which we did."Kasabian also offered her account of the night of the LaBianca murders. She testified that she didn't want to go, but went anyway "because Charlie asked me and I was afraid to say no."Kasabian proved a very credible witness, despite the best efforts during cross-examination of defense attorneys to make her appear a spaced-out hippie. After admitting that she took LSD about fifty times, Kasabian was asked by Kanarek, "Describe what happened on trip number 23." Other defense questions explored her beliefs in ESP and witchcraft or focused on the "vibrations" she claimed to receive from Manson.A major distraction from Kasabian's testimony came on August 3, when Manson stood before the jury and held up a copy of the Los Angeles Times with the headline, "MANSON GUILTY, NIXON DECLARES." The defense moved for a mistrial on the grounds that the headline prejudiced the jury against the defense, but Judge Older denied the motion after each juror stated under oath that he or she would not be influenced by the President's reported declaration of guilt.Testimony corroborating that of Kasabian came from several other prosecution witnesses, most notably the woman Atkins confided in at Dormitory 8000, Virginia Graham. Other witnesses described receiving threats from Manson, evidence of Manson's total control over the lives of Family members, or conversations in which Manson had told of the coming Helter Skelter.Nineteen-year-old Paul Watkins, Manson's foremost recruiter of young women, provided key testimony about the strange motive for the Tate-LaBianca murders--including its link to the Bible's Book of Revelation. Watkins testified that Manson discussed Helter Skelter "constantly." Bugliosi asked Watkins how Helter Skelter would start:"There would be some atrocious murders; that some of the spades from Watts would come up into the Bel-Air and Beverly Hills district and just really wipe some people out, just cut bodies up and smear blood and write things on the wall in blood, and cut little boys up and make parents watch. So, in retaliation-this would scare; in other words, all the other white people would be afraid that this would happen to them, so out of their fear they would go into the ghetto and just start shooting black people like crazy. But all they would shoot would be the garbage man and Uncle Toms, and all the ones that were with Whitey in the first place. And underneath it all, the Black Muslims would-he would know that it was coming down.""Helter Skelter was coming down?""Yes. So, after Whitey goes in the ghettoes and shoots all the Uncle Toms, then the Black Muslims come out and appeal to the people by saying, 'Look what you have done to my people.' And this would split Whitey down the middle, between all the hippies and the liberals and all the up-tight piggies. This would split them in the middle and a big civil war would start and really split them up in all these different factions, and they would just kill each other off in the meantime through their war. And after they killed each other off, then there would be a few of them left who supposedly won.""A few of who left?""A few white people left who supposedly won. Then the Black Muslims would come out of hiding and wipe them all out.""Wipe the white people out?""Yes. By sneaking around and slitting their throats.""Did Charlie say anything about where he and the Family would be during this Helter Skelter?""Yes. When we was [sic] in the desert the first time, Charlie used to walk around in the desert and say-you see, there are places where water would come up to the top of the ground and then it would go down and there wouldn't be no more water, and then it would come up again and go down again. He would look at that and say, 'There has got to be a hole somewhere, somewhere here, a big old lake.' And it just really got far out, that there was a hole underneath there somewhere where you could drive a speedboat across it, a big underground city. Then we started from the 'Revolution 9' song on the Beatles album which was interpreted by Charlie to mean the Revelation 9. So-""The last book of the New Testament?""Just the book of Revelation and the song would be 'Revelations 9: So, in this book it says, there is a part about, in Revelations 9, it talks of the bottomless pit. Then later on, I believe it is in 10.""Revelation 10?""Yes. It talks about there will be a city where there will be no sun and there will be no moon.""Manson spoke about this?""Yes, many times. That there would be a city of gold, but there would be no life, and there would be a tree there that bears twelve different kinds of fruit that changed every month. And this was interpreted to mean-this was the hole down under Death Valley.""Did he talk about the twelve tribes of Israel?""Yes. That was in there, too. It was supposed to get back to the 144,000 people. The Family was to grow to this number.""The twelve tribes of Israel being 144,000 people?""Yes.""And Manson said that the Family would eventually increase to 144,000 people?""Yes.""Did he say when this would take place?""Oh, yes. See, it was all happening simultaneously. In other words, as we are making the music and it is drawing all the young love to the desert, the Family increases in ranks, and at the same time this sets off Helter Skelter. So then the Family finds the hole in the meantime and gets down in the hole and lives there until the whole thing comes down.""Until Helter Skelter comes down?""Yes.""Did he say who would win this Helter Skelter?""The karma would have completely reversed, meaning that the black men would be on top and the white race would be wiped out; there would be none except for the Family.""Except for Manson and the Family?""Yes.""Did he say what the black man would do once he was all by himself?""Well, according to Charlie, he would clean up the mess, just like he always has done. He is supposed to be the servant, see. He will clean up the mess that he made, that the white man made, and build the world back up a little bit, build the cities back up, but then he wouldn't know what to do with it, he couldn't handle it.""Blackie couldn't handle it?""Yes, and this is when the Family would come out of the hole, and being that he would have completed the white man's karma, then he would no longer have this vicious want to kill.""When you say 'he,' you mean Blackie?""Blackie then would come to Charlie and say, you know, 'I did my thing, I killed them all and, you know, I am tired of killing now. It is all over.' And Charlie would scratch his fuzzy head and kick him in the butt and tell him to go pick the cotton and go be a good nigger, and he would live happily ever after."On November 16, 1970, after twenty-two weeks of testimony, the prosecution rested its case.Irving Kanarek, Manson's defense attorneyWhen the trial resumed three days later, the defense startled courtroom spectators and the prosecution by announcing, without calling a single witness, "The defense rests." Suddenly, the three female defendants began shouting that they wanted to testify. In chambers, attorneys for the women explained that although their clients wanted to testify, they were strongly opposed, believing that they would--still under the powerful influence of Manson--testify that they planned and committed the murders without Manson's help. Returning to the courtroom, Judge Older declared that the right to testify took precedence and said that the defendants could testify over the objections of their counsel. Atkins was then sworn as a witness, but her attorney, Daye Shinn, refused to question her. Returning to chambers, one defense attorney complained that questioning their clients on the stand would be like "aiding and abetting a suicide."The next day came another surprise. Charles Manson announced that he, too, wished to testify--before his co-defendants did. He testified first without the jury being present, so that potentially excludable testimony relating to evidence incriminating co-defendants might be identified before it prejudiced the jury. His over one-hour of testimony, full of digressions, fascinated observers:"I never went to school, so I never growed up to read and write too good, so I have stayed in jail and I have stayed stupid, and I have stayed a child while I have watched your world grow up, and then I look at the things that you do and I don't understand. . . ."You eat meat and you kill things that are better than you are, and then you say how bad, and even killers, your children are. You made your children what they are. . . ."These children that come at you with knives. they are your children. You taught them. I didn't teach them. I just tried to help them stand up. . ."Most of the people at the ranch that you call the Family were just people that you did not want, people that were alongside the road, that their parents had kicked out, that did not want to go to Juvenile Hall. So I did the best I could and I took them up on my garbage dump and I told them this: that in love there is no wrong. . . ."I told them that anything they do for their brothers and sisters is good if they do it with a good thought. . . ."I don't understand you, but I don't try. I don't try to judge nobody. I know that the only person I can judge is me . . . But I know this: that in your hearts and your own souls, you are as much responsible for the Vietnam war as I am for killing these people. . . ."I can't judge any of you. I have no malice against you and no ribbons for you. But I think that it is high time that you all start looking at yourselves, and judging the lie that you live in."I can't dislike you, but I will say this to you: you haven't got long before you are all going to kill yourselves, because you are all crazy. And you can project it back at me . . . but I am only what lives inside each and everyone of you."My father is the jailhouse. My father is your system. . . I am only what you made me. I am only a reflection of you."I have ate out of your garbage cans to stay out of jail. I have wore your second-hand clothes. . . I have done my best to get along in your world and now you want to kill me, and I look at you, and then I say to myself, You want to kill me? Ha! I'm already dead, have been all my life. I've spent twenty-three years in tombs that you built."Sometimes I think about giving it back to you; sometimes I think about just jumping on you and letting you shoot me . . . If I could, I would jerk this microphone off and beat your brains out with it, because that is what you deserve, that is what you deserve. . . ."These children [indicating the female defendants] were finding themselves. What they did, if they did whatever they did, is up to them. They will have to explain that to you. . . ."You expect to break me? Impossible! You broke me years ago. You killed me years ago. . . ."Mr. Bugliosi is a hard-driving prosecutor, polished education, a master of words, semantics. He is a genius. He has got everything that every lawyer would want to have except one thing: a case. He doesn't have a case. Were I allowed to defend myself, I could have proven this to you. . .The evidence in this case is a gun. There was a gun that laid around the ranch. It belonged to everybody. Anybody could have picked that gun up and done anything they wanted to do with it. I don't deny having that gun. That gun has been in my possession many times. Like the rope was there because you need rope on a ranch. . . .It is really convenient that Mr. Baggot found those clothes. I imagine he got a little taste of money for that. . . .They put the hideous bodies on [photographic] display and they imply: If he gets out, see what will happen to you. . . .[Helter Skelter] means confusion, literally. It doesn't mean any war with anyone. It doesn't mean that some people are going to kill other people. . . Helter Skelter is confusion. Confusion is coming down around you fast. If you can't see the confusion coming down around you fast, you can call it what you wish. . Is it a conspiracy that the music is telling the youth to rise up against the establishment because the establishment is rapidly destroying things? Is that a conspiracy? The music speaks to you every day, but you are too deaf, dumb, and blind to even listen to the music. . . It is not my conspiracy. It is not my music. I hear what it relates. It says "Rise," it says "Kill." Why blame it on me? I didn't write the music. . . ."I haven't got any guilt about anything because I have never been able to see any wrong. . . I have always said: Do what your love tells you, and I do what my love tells me . . . Is it my fault that your children do what you do? What about your children? You say there are just a few? There are many, many more, coming in the same direction. They are running in the streets-and they are coming right at you!"At the conclusion of Bugliosi's brief cross-examination of Manson, Older asked Manson if he now wished to testify before the jury. He replied, "I have already relieved all the pressure I had." Manson left the stand. As he walked by the counsel table, he told his three co-defendants, "You don't have to testify now."There remained one last frightening surprise of the Tate-LaBianca murder trial. When the trial resumed on November 30 following Manson's testimony, Ronald Hughes, defense attorney for Leslie Van Houten failed to show. A subsequent investigation revealed he had disappeared over the weekend while camping in the remote Sespe Hot Springs area northwest of Los Angeles. It is widely believed that Hughes was ordered murdered by Manson for his determination to pursue a defense strategy at odds with that favored by Manson. Hughes had made clear his hope to show that Van Houten was not acting independently--as Manson suggested--but was completely controlled in her actions by Manson.Manson's defense attorney, Irving Kanarek, argued to the jury that the female defendants committed the Tate and LaBianca murders out of a love of the crimes' true mastermind, the absent Tex Watson. Kanarek suggested that Manson was being persecuted because of his "life style." He argued that the prosecution's theory of a motive was fanciful. His argument lasted seven days, prompting Judge Older to call it "no longer an argument but a filibuster."Bugliosi's powerful summation described Charles Manson as "the Mephistophelean guru" who "sent out from the fires of hell at Spahn Ranch three heartless, bloodthirsty robots and--unfortunately for him--one human being, the little hippie girl Linda Kasabian." Bugliosi ended his summation with "a roll call of the dead": "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Sharon Tate...Abigail Folger...Voytek Frykowski...Jay Sebring...Steven Parent...Leno LaBianca...Rosemary LaBianca...are not here with us in this courtroom, but from their graves they cry out for justice."The jury deliberated a week before returning its verdict on January 25, 1971. The jury found all defendants guilty on each count of first-degree murder. After hearing additional evidence in the penalty phase of the trial, the jury completed its work by sentencing each of the four defendants to death on March 29. As the clerk read the verdict, Manson shouted, "You people have no authority over me." Patricia Krenwinkel declared, "You have judged yourselves." Susan Atkins said, "Better lock your doors and watch your own kids." Leslie Van Houten complained, "The whole system is a game." The trial was over. At over nine-months, it had been the longest and and most expensive in American history.TRIAL AFTERMATHManson at his 1992 parole hearingThe death sentences imposed by the Tate-LaBianca jury would never be imposed, thanks to a California Supreme Court ruling in 1972 declaring the state's death penalty law unconstitutional. The death sentences for the four convicted defendants, as well as for Tex Watson who had been convicted and sentenced to death in a separate trial in 1971, were commuted to life in prison. Patricia Krenwinkel, now 72, became California’s longest-serving female inmate. According to state prison officials, Krenwinkel is a model inmate involved in rehabilitative programs at the prison. She will be eligible to apply for parole again in 2022. Patricia Krenwinkel, now 70, is serving her life sentence at the California Institution for Women in Corona, prison officials say, and has been disciplinary-free her entire sentence. She is still considered to present an unreasonable threat to society. Charles “Tex” Watson, now 74, is housed at the RJ Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego County near the Mexican border, where he walks the track “sharing my faith, relating to many men”, according to the ministry’s website. He has been denied parole 17 times. A state panel in 2016 once again found him unsuitable for release from prison for at least five more years. In prison, Watson married, divorced, fathered four children and became an ordained minister. Susan Atkins, dubbed “the scariest of all the girls” by a former prosecutor, died in prison in 2009 at age 61Charles Manson was incarcerated in a maximum security section of a state penitentiary in Concoran, California. He has been denied parole twelve times, most recently in 2012. His next parole hearing was scheduled for 2027. In prison, he had assaulted prison staff a half dozen times. A search of the prison chapel where Manson took a job in 1980 revealed his hidden cache including marijuana, one hundred feet of nylon rope, and a mail-order catalog for hot air balloons. In 1986, he published his story, Manson in His Own Words. In his book, Manson claims: "My eyes are cameras. My mind is tuned to more television channels than exist in your world. And it suffers no censorship. Through it, I have a world and the universe as my own."All three female defendants have expressed remorse for their crimes, been exemplary inmates, and offered their time for charity work. Yet none has been released by the California Parole Board, even though each of them was young and clearly under Manson's powerful influence at the time of their crimes. There is no question that but for their unfortunate connection with Charles Manson, none would have committed murder. It is sad, but undoubtedly true, that parole boards are political bodies that base decisions as much upon anticipated public reaction to their decisions as on a careful review of a parole applicant's prison record and statements.In November 2014, the California Department of Corrections announced that it had received a request for a marriage license from their famous eighty-year-old prisoner. Manson's bride-to-be was Afton Elaine Burton, nicknamed “Star” a twenty-six-year old woman who had worked for Manson's release. Turns out that the few short years before Manson’s death, “Star” Burton was actually planning to secure the legal rights to his corpse — in order to display it for curious observers in a glass crypt for profit. He never did marry her OR give his consent to display his remains.Instead of tying the knot and while stringing Star along, He was busy “making little dolls, but they were like voodoo dolls of people and he would stick needles in them, hoping to injure the live person the doll was fashioned after,” said former L.A. County prosecutor Stephen Kay who helped convict Manson in 1970. “He said his main activity was making those dolls.” The end came for Charles Manson on Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 8:13pm, at the age of 83.  The official cause of death was “acute cardiac arrest,” “respiratory failure” and “metastatic colon cancer.” Upon his death newspapers across the country seemed to have cheered over Manson’s passing. For instance, the New York Daily News published a front cover spread that read, “BURN IN HELL, Bloodthirsty cult leader Manson dies at 83.” Others followed suit with brazen titles such as “EVIL DEAD. Make room, Satan, Charles Manson is finally going to hell” – New York Post.Four months after

Netflix seems to be specializing in lukewarm dramas. 'The Devil All The Time,' at the least, comes with a oh-so-serious-it-becomes-campy vibe. The movie feels like an expensive sizzle reel for Tom Spider-Man Holland. 'Look, ma, I can act!'

Radio host Sarah Gandy joins host James Nokise to talk about cancer, chemo and co-workers. Produced by Charlie Bleakley.

Taster for #3 - Britain gets geared up to defend against an amphibious invasion: pillboxes disguised with chicken feathers - a volunteer army to defend Britain called the LDV known as 'Look, Duck, Vanish' - a leaflet advising people to carry pepper to throw in the enemy's eyes, and 'a sharp knife to kill them if necessary.'

This week, Jess got a message from some family members who’d read the draft of her forthcoming book, The Addiction Innoculation. They had … thoughts. Those thoughts turned out to be nothing drastic—but the emotional roller coaster Jess rode while waiting to hear more was a doozy, and got us all thinking about how much of ourselves is exposed when we write non-fiction with a memoir element, how real memoirists do it, and how often readers—especially those closest to you—read our fiction looking for hidden truths. It’s a fun conversation that also covers pool floats, parents, dream offices we probably wouldn’t use and more. Links from the PodcastYard PodsDon’t Kill the Birthday Girl by Sandra BeasleyMrs. Everything by Jen WeinerKJ and Sarina’s Pool Floats#AmReadingKJ: Rodham by Curtis SittenfeldI'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness by Austin Channing BrownJess: Notes on a Silencing by Lacy CrawfordSarina: Don’t You Forget About Me by Mhairi McFarlaneThanks to everyone who supports the podcast financially. To join that team, click the button below:But it’s all good. The pod is free as it always has and always will be. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it every time there’s a new episode.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.KJ Dell'Antonia 0:00 Hey there. Before we embark on a new episode, I get to tell you about our new sponsor, Dabble. I wrote my last book in a mad combination of Word and Scrivener and it worked fine. But putting the whole thing together in the end was hard. And I accidentally left a chapter out of a draft, confusing everyone. With Dabble the whole book is always just sitting there, already compiled and together as a unit, but still easy to navigate around in using chapters or scenes. It's magical, and I can't wait to make full use of it this time around. Give it a spin at dabblewriter.com and let us know what you think. Is it recording?Jess Lahey 0:38 Now it's recording. Go ahead. KJ Dell'Antonia 0:41 This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone and try to remember what I'm supposed to be doing. Jess Lahey 0:45 Alright, let's start over. KJ Dell'Antonia 0:46 Awkward pause. I'm gonna rustle some papers. Okay, now one, two, three.I'm KJ Dell'Antonia and this is #AmWriting, the podcast about writing all the things - fiction, nonfiction, memoir, essays, proposals, pitches. In short, as I say most nearly every week, this is the podcast about sitting down and getting your writing work done. I'm Jess Lahey. I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and the forthcoming Addiction Inoculation that'll be out in April 2021. And currently writing some stuff for The Washington Post and Air Mail. And yeah, I guess that's about it.Sarina Bowen 1:31 And I'm Sarina Bowen, the author of 35 romance novels. And I'm currently writing nothing and it is glorious.KJ Dell'Antonia 1:41 I'm KJ Dell'Antonia. I'm the author of How To Be a Happier Parent and the novel The Chicken Sisters, which is coming out this December look for it in bookstores near you if you can be in them and goodness knows I hope you can, but I'm not holding my breath. I am the former editor of The Motherlode Blog at the New York Times where I sometimes still contribute. And I write things for other places. But I am primarily now focused on fiction, kind of, mostly, more about that in a minute maybe. Jess Lahey 2:12 Speaking of being able to go into bookstores, I was able to go into one for the first time recently, they're limiting their customers. I went to the Phoenix Bookstore in Burlington, and I was able to browse and I had just forgotten how much I miss browsing and I found a couple of books and I was so excited to just sort of be able to look at the things and not online. It was very exciting. KJ Dell'Antonia 2:37 I have been really aching to do that and haven't done it since March, but I have a couple of possible abilities to do that in my immediate future I hope.Jess Lahey 2:50 I stayed in like the gardening section and the cooking section and just looked at all these books. I miss it. I miss it so much. Hold on, can we go back to what Sarina said about not working on anything right now like this is monumental because you're always working, Sarina, you're constantly working. Are you taking a break right now between projects?Sarina Bowen 3:15 I am. And it's partly because I'm just burnt out and need a break. And partly because I have a lot of promo and organizational stuff that could really eat an entire month. And I'm ahead for the first time in many months - ahead of publication schedule. KJ Dell'Antonia 3:34 Wow, that sounds glorious. Jess Lahey 3:36 That's really amazing. KJ, what are you doing?KJ Dell'Antonia 3:38 Well, my agent has just given me back some edits on what I hope will be my next novel. So I'm finishing those up and then we'll figure out where we are going from there. But I suspect that I will finish those edits up and then that will be sort of temporarily finished and then it is time to start something new. So I am wandering through the world thinking what's the next novel? Who's it about? And I'm spending a lot of time thinking things like well but wait the last two were about people and their mothers. I apparently can't stop with people and their mothers. And then I was like, Well, lots of authors can't stop with people and their mothers. Sarina Bowen 4:26 Well, we all had one or we missed having one, so that's a big theme. KJ Dell'Antonia 4:34 It is universal, but it's almost feels like it should be its own genre. And then I've been noodling a possible nonfiction thing. Just a little something about writing.Jess Lahey 4:57 That's really exciting. KJ Dell'Antonia 4:58 I've been having fun thinking about it.Jess Lahey 5:00 Yeah, I didn't expect to have many deadlines right now. But then stuff came up and I was asked to write some things. I'm working on two book reviews that will be due in the next couple months, two books that I never would have picked up on my own. So I'm learning a lot from both books and I can't say what they are. And then Tim and I are writing a piece together for a big national publication about going back to school in the age of COVID. And the problem with that it's going to be in print and so the word count has to be pretty on target. And the problem is this is such a big topic that even our outline at one point was longer than our final word count. Well and I just texted you guys about this before we started, but working in the same house together, Tim and I write together pretty well, but we normally do it in separate locations. And you know, no one's going to work, no one's going to school, and we just had the dumbest argument about absolutely nothing. And we just don't argue very much. And so I realized man, it is so time for someone to go work somewhere else because I can't take it anymore. KJ Dell'Antonia 6:26 I was on Instagram and a lovely writer whose name I have now forgotten, was showing her writing shed and it was as cute as anything and she was a New Englander. So it was clearly not only useful for part of the year but I just looked at it I thought that is amazing. Plus, if I had it, somebody else would have taken it over. Jess Lahey 6:46 You know who has a great one is Julie Lythcott-Haims. She does all of her interviews from there and she writes there and it's called like a yard pod. And it's absolutely beautiful. It's just stunning, it's filled with books, and it's bright and sunny, and it's behind her house, and no one goes in there really but her. It's pretty lovely.Sarina Bowen 7:05 That is living the dream.KJ Dell'Antonia 7:08 You'd think so, but I bet I wouldn't even use it. I tend to sit smack in the middle of everything. It's stupid, but I do. I don't use my office anymore because there's someone else in here. I mean I record in here, I don't know, I used to write in here.Jess Lahey 7:27 It does sound like this wonderful thing - I was at a house recently and they have a little glassed in studio overlooking Lake Champlain. And I thought about it and I'm like, it looks so beautiful, but you're right, I think I would just not spend a lot of time out there.Sarina Bowen 7:45 I would - take me!KJ Dell'Antonia 7:51 Alright, yard pod for Sarina. Jess Lahey 7:59 So we do kind of have a topic this week that we were playing around with because I read a book this week and submitted my finished-copy-edited-now-in-galley-form pages form book to some first readers and have been having some anxiety attacks this week. So we wanted to talk a little bit about when you reveal yourself through your writing. And Gift of Failure I revealed some of myself, but there's nothing embarrassing there really, there was nothing like too freaky in there. But this new book is very memoir-based, so much so that we actually talked about the possibility of coding it as a memoir as well. And it's really scary because it's about my substance abuse, my being an alcoholic, and about what I went through. And I read a book this week by Lacey Crawford called Notes On a Silencing and it's about her sexual assault at St. Paul School. And so I've just had on my brain a lot lately the idea of putting yourself out there in your books and how what a challenge that can be, and we want to come at this from a couple of different angles. And for me a lot of this came down to the fact that I handed my book The Addiction Inoculation, over to my parents. And it's right there in the flap copy that I come from a family where there's a lot of substance abuse. And I got one of those phone calls, I was very careful when I wrote it, but I got one of those phone calls from my parents saying, can we talk? And it turned out okay, but I had that like my heart in my stomach. I thought I was gonna throw up, I'm like I was so super careful about what I put in there. And I didn't tell anyone's story, but my own story. But, man, putting more of yourself in a book is extremely anxiety provoking. And we wanted to talk a little bit about that and how that happens, or doesn't happen, or what happens with fiction and that kind of stuff. So I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on that.Sarina Bowen 10:14 I read a memoir recently-ish called Don't Kill the Birthday Girl by Sandra Beasley. And the subtitle is Tales From an Allergic Life. So she is super allergic to many things, which is not exactly like a hot button family issue. It's not tales from being beaten in a cupboard, you know? But even the first line of her acknowledgment section says, 'There's no sentence more terrifying to two family members than I'm writing a memoir.' And I loved that. I loved that as the first line of her acknowledgments and, of course, her life experience growing up with this somewhat unique, but unfortunately not unique enough, problem of having anaphylactic shock all the time from being allergic to half the world did bleed into her family a little bit. And her ex boyfriend is in there, she had to deal with it even though it wasn't like a dark topic. So I had never realized that before until I read it in her acknowledgments.Jess Lahey 11:31 I guess I also think a lot about you know, Mary Karr, who wrote Lit about substance abuse in her family. And of course, she's written a whole bunch of stuff, and it's all deeply deeply personal memoir stuff. And she talks about the fact that she lets people read all of this stuff that she writes ahead of time, and that there's some veto power. Her mother apparently, you know, was like, 'Look, you live this, go for it. This is your experience.' But that's definitely not what a lot of relatives do. A lot of relatives, mine included, were worried, really worried and I even let them see my book proposal. And in the book proposal I did say that I was going to talk a little bit about my family, but in pretty general terms. There were some ground rules (or some agreements) that we made early on about how much I reveal that isn't my story to tell. And that's also been interesting. Early on, when I was doing interviews about the fact that I was writing this book and people would ask me about my history and I had to make it really clear that I am not free to tell other people's stories, I'm free to tell my stories. But where those stories overlap and how much my experience of someone else's story am I allowed to tell? I'm always really scared that I'm going to get that wrong. KJ Dell'Antonia 12:55 Sure, I mean, just to give an example that I will intentionally make completely not about any of us. Just say that you want to write about the reason that you're a trapeze artist. And for some reason your father is super, super sensitive about his experiences as a trapeze artist because his dad was a trapeze artist and he found that really a difficult way to grow up. But the fact that he's really upset about the whole trapeze artist thing because of his dad affects how he experiences or how he responds to you being a trapeze artist. And, you know, there you are. You sort of need to include your dad's experience of trapeze artists in your memoir because otherwise his crazy reluctance to permit you to swing wildly from the trapeze just doesn't make sense. I was just, I'll call it coaching. So I had a friend come to me with a couple of essays recently, and by essays, I mean really long, literary things, 15-20 pages and such. And frequently you get a phone call like that, and you sort of opened the document with trepidation, but these were amazing. And this is a friend with a really interesting story. And I said, 'Well, you know, it's just gonna be up to you to figure out how much of this you want to tell because I think you have a memoir here as well as this other stuff.' And she said, 'Oh, both my parents are dead.' And I was like, 'Well, then you're free.' Now, I wouldn't wish this upon anyone, and I do not want that day to come, but when it comes, yeah, you write anything you want. Jess Lahey 14:42 I thought about that a lot. There are certain stories that I would love to talk about, but I do talk specifically in my book about the fact that ignoring things, and hiding truths, and pretending like everything's fine when things aren't fine, was a very big part of my story. And so it's really scary - and for me one of the big things I talk about a lot in the book is that I am very honest about my personal life and my substance abuse because in my childhood no one was allowed to talk about it, in fact, we got in trouble for talking about it. So that was the thing that I was most scared of my parents reading and so once I realized they were okay with that, we were basically on okay ground. But it was also interesting because of the conversation I had with them was very much about my parents perception of a statement I made versus my perception of a statement I made and I was making it very generally and he was reading it very specifically. And once we talked about that, he was okay with it. But when we were disagreeing I'm like, well, crap, because this is now in galley version and have I now blown up a bomb in the middle of my family. And that stuff is so scary and yet it was so important to me to be as honest as possible. Because the very thing I'm trying to say in the book is that secrets and shame are what keep us sick. And so to not go there is counter to what I'm saying - about the need to get over our secrets and our shame. So it was it was a tricky situation, but one I felt was really important to to do justice to.Sarina Bowen 16:21 That's amazing.Jess Lahey 16:23 I want to know, Sarina, one thing - so whenever people talk to fiction authors, they often say you know how much of you is in your characters? And I've always thought about you know, there are certain fiction books I would love to write and I'm always worried someone's gonna think I'm projecting like my own stuff onto my characters and do you get any of that?Sarina Bowen 16:44 Yeah, but of course you have to separate what the people close to you think versus what strangers think. So with memoir, it's really important to your family existence that everybody you know is okay with your memoir. But in fiction, some misunderstanding just doesn't have the same weight. So I have most of a manuscript somewhere for a women's fiction that I haven't finished or published yet. And my mother read an early draft of it. And she said, 'I didn't know that you hated Hanover.' (which is the town where I live) And I said, 'Mom, I don't hate Hanover at all, but my character is not a fan.' And so writing what you know, can mean just using everything you see about a place to look at it from different angles, which is what I had done, and it wasn't my first book because of course, that kind of distance is hard to capture the first time you write a novel, but this one was a very confident view of living in this small town as a 40 something single woman who sees a lot. And I just was fascinated by the fact that she thought that I didn't like my town just from some things that this character observed about it. But a stranger wouldn't grab that and have as strong feelings about it. Probably. So when you're writing fiction, in one sense, you're handing over a chunk of your brain for the analysis of others, which is always a little uncomfortable, because there will be some things that you personally feel that just bleed in there and you can't help it. Like I hate pumpkin spice lattes and none of my characters are a fan either. Jess Lahey 18:48 Or certain kinds of beer, you're very clear on your beer preferences, too. Sarina Bowen 18:57 That's right. Nobody drinks Bud Light in my book or if they do that is not a good character, like that person is going to murder somebody. So if you read all 35 of my books, you can find some things about me that are like my personal preferences and blind spots, which is, of course, important to the national discussion of how people of color are treated in fiction and seen in fiction. But of course, that's true about every author, it's hard to get fully away from all of the things you believe and don't even realize you believe. But with a romance novel, though, you have this shield. So it's like, here's a piece of my brain, but it's also filtered through the expectations of romance readers everywhere, like the genre is expected to behave in a certain way and I follow those rules and so you get parts of me but not all of me because I'm trying to give you the experience that a romance reader is looking for. And so that's just easier than with memoir. It just happens less often. Jess Lahey 20:08 Well, I don't know because KJ likes chicken. KJ is from the Midwest, I'm thinking KJ wrote a memoir and she has a sister we don't know about.KJ Dell'Antonia 20:28 So I have a novel in a drawer. I haven't looked at it in many, many, many, many, many, many years. But I that one I know has much stronger autobiographical elements than The Chicken Sisters. The Chicken Sisters - it's kind of like what Sarina said, there are things in there that I have done, like encourage my children to use the car as an amusement park so that I could have a conversation with someone, both sisters share some thoughts with me, but I'd even be hard put to tell you which one. Yeah, I probably identify with one slightly more than the other. But I could go back to How To Be a Happier Parent and it's kind of like your first book, Jess. It's got things in it that are personal, that are stories, but it took so long to write and also because it's kind of geared towards parents of kids that are younger than mine are now. So I really tried to go back in time for the best stories. And I think actually in the end, my kids were disappointed by how little they were in it. They really expected it, like they opened it thinking now we're gonna find out what mom really thinks of us and it's just not the book that I wrote. But I will say that no matter what I write anywhere under any circumstances, my parents invariably call me up and say that never happened. Jess Lahey 22:24 It's funny because I thought about this recently because I talk with Sarina about the different kinds of romance books there are - like the second chance, and the friends to lovers kind of thing, and recently an ex-boyfriend of mine got divorced and so I started spooling through my head (even though I have no interest in dating this person, I'm very happily married) how a story might go if someone that was like a first love kind of thing got divorced and what if the person was single and was still interested? How would that romance novel go. And then I simultaneously realized, well, I can never write that book because there's no way I could convince my husband that on some level, I wasn't going there just a little bit in my brain. It's what fed the initial idea for a story, but it's not something that I actually want in my life. And that line would be really hard to convince the people close to you of, I think sometimes. The way you did with your mom, Sarina.KJ Dell'Antonia 23:32 I think that it would be okay in your third or fourth book, because I think that by then, the assumption that you were writing fiction would be so established. Like, I don't open up a Jen Weiner book and think, Well, clearly she's unhappy with her husband because this person's unhappy with her husband. Whereas if it were a debut novel, I might, I really probably don't because I don't think about it that way. But I feel like even your family's expectations are probably different at that point. But I too would hesitate to write like somebody struggling in an unhappy marriage. Although one of my characters is struggling in this book, but there are two characters and my husband has read it and he still seems pretty secure. I didn't get complaints. Jess Lahey 24:31 I could see how that would be really problematic, though, for an insecure partner.Sarina Bowen 24:35 Yeah, well, first, I must say it depends on if your partner reads your books, because I could write anything.Jess Lahey 24:44 Has he read any of them?Sarina Bowen 24:45 He read one. And, you know, I guess that was enough for him.KJ Dell'Antonia 24:50 Mine didn't read Happier Parent, but he wanted to read this one.Sarina Bowen 24:53 You mentioned Jennifer Wiener and she had a book called Mrs. Everything that came out last summer that is based on her mother's journey. Jess Lahey 24:53 Oh really?Sarina Bowen 24:53 Yeah. KJ Dell'Antonia 24:53 Is her mother still with us?Sarina Bowen 24:53 Yes. Actually I read this on Twitter. KJ Dell'Antonia 24:55 So you know it's true. If she tweeted it you do, I know, I'm just sorry.Sarina Bowen 25:06 Well she is terrific on Twitter.KJ Dell'Antonia 25:23 She is terrific on Twitter. She a reason to be on Twitter.Sarina Bowen 25:28 She is - seriously, she's a force of good on Twitter. And she told this quick story. The details aren't all there for me still, but that her mother went by herself to a bookstore discussion (like a book club night, and this was the book) and she went and participated and didn't tell anyone that she was that mother.KJ Dell'Antonia 25:48 Oh, that is really funny.Sarina Bowen 25:50 It is priceless. Jess Lahey 25:52 That is a very, very cool story. If you've read (KJ and I have, I'm assuming you have Sarina) there's a nonfiction book that she wrote a couple of years ago, she talks about her story, and her mom, and what they went through with her dad, and all of that. So that would be a really interesting story to explore. Well, the Lacey Crawford book that I was talking about, so much of this story that she tells exposes a lot of other people's stories, and I haven't had a chance to talk to her about it. I was gonna ask her about it, like how many of the names were different names? Did she change all of the names? Did she change some of the names? You know, it's really easy to figure out a lot of the details around some of the people unless she changed all those details and you know what class she graduated from from St. Paul's. I think you have to be really brave to do that. And I had a lot of thoughts after reading Notes On a Silencing. It's a fantastic book. We've DM'd a few times about some of the elements of the book because I was just so blown away by what an incredible job she did with this book, it's really, really good.Sarina Bowen 27:06 Well, I'm reading it this month. Last night I talked to my book club into choosing it.Jess Lahey 27:10 Oh, you did? Oh, good. I think you'll really like it. I think you'll really like it. It's definitely her story and the events of the past couple years with St. Paul's triggered sort of her going back into that story, sort of that idea of I thought I dealt with that, I thought I was okay with it, and then it re-emerged when people started suing St. Paul school recently. So it was another perspective. And because we live near there, it's something that's been in the news a lot for us. And so it was fascinating to read it from the perspective of someone who has gone through this with the school just you know, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, whatever it was. So anyway, I think you'll really like it. She does a delightful job. And she had written a fiction book as well, the admissions book, KJ, I believe you read, right? KJ Dell'Antonia 27:58 Yes, yeah. I'd have to pull up the title of it, I don't remember. But I remember that it was very, very, very funny. And I liked it, it was about college essays. It was about someone who helped with college essays, and it was definitely a good read. So I'm not surprised this would be good. Jess Lahey 28:16 She's a delightful writer, really good writer.KJ Dell'Antonia 28:20 We've been just talking about all kinds of people who hop around genres. Writers worry that you can't, but I don't know, I think it's great. I definitely go to read the nonfiction of novelists that I like and will try the novel of a nonfiction writer that I like, so everyone else should totally do that, if you like my nonfiction. Jess Lahey 28:50 I've been doing this outline of this novel that I'm thinking about writing - a different one from the one that I thought I was going to write and I'm curious to see what my writing looks like in fiction because I just don't do it. So I don't have a sense for what my writing is going to look like when I'm telling a more creative story. It's going to be an adventure for me. And whether or not it ever ends up on a bookshelf anywhere, I'm really interested to see what my writing looks like in a different format, in a different genre, and a different sort of sense.Sarina Bowen 29:22 I can't wait. Jess Lahey 29:24 Yeah, I'm excited.KJ Dell'Antonia 29:25 So we've been talking a lot about what we've been reading. But let's get into the details of what we've really been reading this week after a small break. Listeners, you know we're about to get into what we've been reading, and we've been reading some good stuff. But have you ever thought about how those books get so good? Or maybe thought you could be a part of making an author's novel, memoir, or nonfiction as good as it could possibly be and get paid for the work. Author accelerator has a book coach training program that students describe as truly life changing. They dig into the mechanics, process, and emotion of coaching but they don't stop there. Their program also helps you turn coaching into a profitable business that fits into your life. Find out more at authoraccelerator.com.Jess Lahey 30:32 Well you guys know what I've been reading. I read the Lacey Crawford, I've been having to devour these nonfiction books for some nonfiction book reviews that I am writing. And I'm experiencing that thing when you (I haven't had this happen in a while because I don't belong to a book club) get assigned a book, I'm immediately less interested in it than something that I'm allowed to read just because I want to read it. It's sort of that like high school English class phenomenon that I'm always resisting or trying to push back against as a teacher. So I feel like a student in high school again, it's like, but I don't want to read it. I didn't pick this book. Sarina Bowen 31:26 I feel obligated to point out that you're probably getting paid for this. So you know, suck it up, Buttercup. Jess Lahey 31:31 Exactly. And it's so hard. I'm so grateful to be getting paid for any writing right now that believe me, I am thrilled as I can be about reading these delightful books.KJ Dell'Antonia 31:44 Well speaking of not wanting to read things, I have been reading I think I might have mentioned this, but it's probably in a future podcast because of the weird way that we've been recording lately. Sorry, behind the scenes glimpse everyone. Anyway, I've been reading Rodham By Curtis Sittenfeld, and I picked it up with excitement and read about the first 50 pages. Rodham is the story of what if Hillary never married Bill, basically. And I got really glommed down on is this real, how about this? How about this? Is this real? Did they really eat those donuts? And I just didn't know if I could keep going. But I went on Instagram and I was like, I'm reading this and I didn't really say that because it seemed sort of negative. But I was like, I'm getting really glommed down in the details. And everyone's like, just keep going, just keep going. So I did. And man, I'm glad I did because it is so good. And it is a tour de chutzpah that Curtis Sittenfeld managed to bring this thing off. I can't even imagine writing, I mean we were talking about sort of fictionalizing your own mother, but fictionalizing this totally famous person that we all admire and look up to. I'm just in awe of both the willingness to do that and also the way she pulled it off. Every detail. I mean, just everything drops so perfectly. It's really structured brilliantly. I just can't recommend it enough. Jess Lahey 33:22 I feel like we've gone on this journey with you. Because early on in a text, you're like, Oh, this is just not working for me, and then in another podcast you sort of hinted at the fact that it was turning and so now we're on the other side of that and I feel like we've gone on this journey with you. It's a little bit like I remember hearing Helen Mirren interviewed about playing the Queen or playing someone who's currently alive and how much more of a challenge that is than playing an imaginary person. I can't imagine having just saying yes, this is what I'm going to do next, I'm going to select a person that exists.KJ Dell'Antonia 34:07 Let me just say that if a dude had done this, and it was called McCain, he'd be winning prizes. And she should be. But I haven't seen it in a lot of places. And I think it's really well done. But I have another one, I have something else that I've been reading. I also just finished I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness from Austin Channing Brown. And that one was interesting, both because it's Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness and that is a perspective that I don't get enough of, but also because it was really about her experience in working within Christian church and within Christian centered organizations, which is also a world that I know nothing about. And I guess it also might sort of fall into that category of - I kind of hesitate, because my experience of Christian organizations is just not something I'm super interested in. So sometimes when you're reading along in a memoir and it skews off into a religion that is not something that is yours you kind of feel like, well, this isn't really for me because that stuff's not for me. But I obviously kept going with it because it had all this other great stuff in it. And I was glad, it was really interesting to experience both of those worlds that I am not a part of. If you're looking for something to read along those lines, and especially if you are a part of a lot of Christian organizations, I'll bet it would be really, really juicy from that perspective. I didn't have any real way of knowing like, Oh, is that really true? Do people really you know, behave that way or say those things or sort of pretend to be interested and then sort of step back? But anyway, I recommend. Jess Lahey 36:17 I will definitely put it on my list. I love hearing about books that you guys are loving. I get so many cool recommendations.Sarina Bowen 37:03 Well, yesterday I received via FedEx two pool floats that I bought because they're exactly like KJ's. And I plunked one of them right into the pool and I got in there with my paperback copy of Don't You Forget About Me by Mhairi McFarlane, which is marketed as a romance novel with a really cute illustrated cover but wow, she is terrific. The writing is fabulous. There's a little prologue section from high school that is so perfectly high school that I have chills. I read three chapters in my pool float feeling I figured out the secret to life, basically. And I can't wait to flop myself back in there later today and and keep going.Jess Lahey 37:58 When you put in Don't You Forget About Me of course Simple Minds comes up. I think I got a copy of that book in the mail. So I may just have to go downstairs and find it on my shelf. That's exciting.KJ Dell'Antonia 38:18 I have her first one. You might have her first one. This one's pretty recent. This one's just come out, right?Sarina Bowen 38:27 No, this is an earlier one.KJ Dell'Antonia 38:30 Okay. I don't think this is the one I have. Jess Lahey 38:33 It's funny because you remember when we were talking a bunch of episodes back about cover art and how a lot of you know like rom-coms/women's fiction are all with these drawings of people with ambiguous faces. I have found that I have a bunch of them in a wish list for audiobooks and I can't tell them apart. They are all just primary color people and especially the ones that have a dog, like a couple of them people have dogs and I think the trend for this sort of primary color faceless drawings of people may have gotten to the saturation point I think, because I'm starting to confuse them.Sarina Bowen 39:13 Well, it's not going away anytime soon because stock photography needed a big bad refresh before COVID and certainly hasn't improved from half a year of lockdown. So those illustrators, they have some job security right now, let me tell you.Jess Lahey 39:33 I will say that in terms of stock photography, you provide endless entertainment for some of the things that exist out there as stock photography, and moments when you say like, why would anyone ever need a picture of a man without a shirt on, and a seal holding a basket of apples? Alright, well I'm glad I got to talk about the whole feeling about the memoir stuff, because this makes me feel better. One of my favorite comments about writing memoir, and it comes from Abigail Thomas, and it's the one about you know, dig deep and be honest or don't bother. And I try to remember that as a mantra when I'm writing stuff that's highly personal, like this new book, The Addiction Inoculation. And I don't think I can do justice to that topic without being really personal, but boy it gets scary when it goes out in the world. You know that it's out there in the hands of people, not just like readers I admire, but people whose lives are part of the book as well. It's nerve racking. KJ Dell'Antonia 41:16 I've got a few things to say. If you're not in our Facebook group, come get into our Facebook group and let's have a convo about this one - who's feeling exposed and like what's going on. If you're doing memoir, if you've got fiction that makes people feel like it's about you, I will try to remember to throw up a conversation starter. If I don't somebody else do it and let's get in that #AmWriting Facebook group and do that.Jess Lahey 41:50 That's exactly what I was going to say too, because we actually put out some tax tips just recently. And that came from a question that came up in the #AmWriting Facebook group so it's a good place to be. Well, if you would like to get stuff like the tax tips, you can go ahead and sign up for our list over at Substack at the #AmWriting page.KJ Dell'Antonia 42:27 You can do that at amwritingpodcast.com. Okay, that sounds great. Go there, it'll send you to all the other stuff and I am working on getting all of our great top fives and minisodes into the regular website as opposed to the Substack website. Jess Lahey 42:46 Yep, I'm actually going to be recording as soon as we're done today. I'm going to be recording a new minisode to go out up on the website in a little bit. So there's all kinds of extra content that's up there. But until next week, everyone keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Learn more about NikolaFollow Trevor on TwitterSupport the show and get on monthly mentorship calls with Fabian. Join here.Full Transcript:F Geyrhalter:Welcome to the show, Trevor. It's an incredible honor to have you on Hitting The Mark.Trevor:Thanks guys. It's going to be a lot of fun. A lot of stuff's happened, even over the last week. Wow.F Geyrhalter:I wanted to start off with that. I mean, it's been an interesting last week for you. You're officially trading on Nasdaq, which is amazing. And during this whole thing, during the quarantine, must've been a very strange kind of experience for you.Trevor:Yeah. Second biggest day of my life, I tell people, because the first day was when I got married, but the second day definitely was being listed on the Nasdaq. I mean, that's everyone's dream, to become listed on the Nasdaq and doing it through the coronavirus was actually incredible, because I'm a big believer in trying to find the good in all situations. And there was a lot of really difficult things going on around the world with the coronavirus, very sad. And so we turned Nikola into America's comeback story, and that was a company that the world could rally behind that, they'd be proud. America would be proud, the world would be proud. The first zero emission semi-truck manufacturer in the entire world, to be dedicated only to zero emissions. And the investors have heavily rewarded us for it. Today, we're at $53 a share or whatever, about $18 billion valuation in our company. And I mean, we're going to be overtaking the biggest brands in the world here, shortly. And what a wonderful experience that has been, on all levels.F Geyrhalter:And hence, I love having you on so much, especially now a couple days after this, it's amazing. I've been following your brand for quite a while. I'm a happy shareholder now too.Trevor:Oh, thanks.F Geyrhalter:I'm glad to hear the news today. That's good, it seems like we're going into the right direction. But just to read a couple of bullet points from your press release, you raised more than $700 million. Pre-orders represent more than $10 billion in potential revenue and your hydrogen network anticipates to cover all of North America and it sets to become the largest hydrogen network in the world. This is mind blowing, but it's especially remarkable since you founded the company in 2014 and you only officially launched in 2016 with a prototype and only a few engineers. Further, if I'm correct, you're only 37 now, right?Trevor:38.F Geyrhalter:38?Trevor:Yeah, 38.F Geyrhalter:So you started the company when you were 29, out of your basement. So how did you get from there in 2016, to where you are now? I mean, it is not easy to create a company like yours.Trevor:No.F Geyrhalter:Talk us through a little bit of the founding steps. You're kind of compared sometimes, a little bit to Apple, the way that you guys were all sitting in your basement, you know?Trevor:Yeah. I have some really cool articles on my LinkedIn that I would recommend everyone go read. And I put some serious thought into those very heartfelt discussions about what it took to get here. And I'm going to tell you what those are right now, but I want people to know if they want to read in detail, they can go there. I've told everybody that I've ever met, that if you want to create wealth, it will not happen in under 10 years, ever. There are maybe one or two examples in the world that ever did happen quicker than that, unless you just got lucky, like some oil on your property or whatever it may be.But ultimately if you're going to create real wealth, it is a 10 year program and most likely, you're going to fail, the odds are against you. So here's what I tell people, "Look, if you want to be an entrepreneur and you want to do this, it is the most rewarding and invigorating thing on the planet Earth, when you succeed. It's also the most difficult, emotional, draining venture you'll ever do, when you fail. It'll wreck you, it'll wreck your body, your health, everything about you. So the risks are high, the rewards are high and the odds are, you're going to fail." Now, where people succeed is when they've got multiple failures and multiple successes underneath their belt.So this is my fifth company. I'm 38, it's my fifth company. Three of them have been successes and two have been failures. And it's amazing, because you look online and some people are bashing me because they're like, "Ah, I would never want this guy, this fraud, who's failed twice in his life to touch my money." And I'm like, "Well, you should definitely never invest in me or my company then, because I don't know a single baseball player in the world that does not strike out when you're hitting home runs." The best baseball players in the world have a .400 batting average, right?F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:And so, 4 out of 10... I would never want anyone touching my money, if they haven't failed. Because if you don't know what it's like to lose everything, then you're going to make some really stupid decisions in your life. And so, these are just haters, just online haters that just hate you no matter what.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:But to get here, that's the beauty of this. It started out of my basement, truly because we didn't know if we really had a product at that time. We worked out of there for a year. And here we are now, a $18 billion company, a couple days after the Nasdaq listing. So it's pretty incredible.F Geyrhalter:It's a story of determination, that's for sure. Especially going against this kind of industry and fitting in and standing out, it's not easy. Let me share Nikola's mission with the audience. It's to "Transform the transportation industry while improving our employees' lives and leaving the world a better place." Now you're very much a visionary, so mission and vision and values and all of this brand work that I usually do with my clients, that must come naturally to you. But I wonder, have you used outside help to create those brand pillars, like most companies do? Or was this Trevor sitting on his desk late at night, jotting them down?Trevor:It really was. It was a lot of, Trevor sitting down on his desk.F Geyrhalter:I'm not surprised.Trevor:And creating these things. I mean, look, here's the thing, I love communication. It's one of my favorite things in life. I value communication as one of my greatest talents and assets I have. And that's because you can communicate through all the craziness in the world. Like you said, there's so many brands out there, how do you create a brand that is so special to the world? Well, in order to do that, you have to solve problems that are special to the world. And you'll never stand out if you don't change the world.And in our mission statement, to leave this place a better place than we found it, I truly believe that. It's my life goal, to leave this place better than I found it. And Nikola, if we pull this off, which I believe we have a very good chance of doing. If we pull this off, with getting all of our trucks built, all over the world, then you're going to see the greatest reduction in emissions the world has ever seen, ever by any company on the planet. And so, that is why people are rewarding us. They're rewarding us because we're making a bigger change than anyone else is making.F Geyrhalter:Well, you are a purpose driven company and that's not just some brand statement, that is true, right? I mean, you're solving one of the biggest problems, that are out there right now.Trevor:Yeah, you're purpose driven and then you actually have to be profitable. I think that's why Nikola has done so well, is because our business model's huge, our margins are... We make five times more revenue than Daimler does. Now just imagine that, per truck sold. So the reason why we're successful is because we've vertically integrated the whole supply chain. So when you buy a diesel today, heaven forbid. You buy a diesel, you're going to spend 150 on the diesel, right? 150,000.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:Then, you're going to spend a million dollars on the oil to power that diesel, over the life of it. So the oil companies are back there, just clapping their hands, loving every second that Peterbilt or Daimler sells a diesel truck. Because they make more revenue than Peterbilt or Daimler has ever dreamed of making.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:So that's where I was like, "Dude, this is crazy. Why are we not sucking all that money out of the oil company's hands and putting it in our own pocket?" And that's what I did. I said, "Okay, we're going to sell the truck, but we're going to provide all the fuel at a fixed rate for seven years." And now, we've stabilized the cost of hydrogen, driven it down low, made it towards cheaper, that it can be cheaper than diesel. And we're taking that 750,000 to $1,000,000 in revenue, in oil and we're bringing it into our own pockets. Because we're not doing oil, we're doing hydrogen. And so we make five times more revenue, on every truck we sell, we get about a million dollars in revenue. So that's why Nikola has done so well.F Geyrhalter:So cool. Unbelievable. And you beat Daimler and Volvo and Tesla in bringing the world's first zero-emissions truck to market, right? I mean, that's one of their claims to fame. And you build your trucks in Ulm in Germany, where I was just visiting family a few months ago. So I'm wondering, the whole "Made in Germany" brand, so to speak, it had a lot of cachet. Was that a big reason to get German engineering or was it mainly logistics and a financial decision, with the first rollout? And of course, as a second part to the question, has the Volkswagen emissions scandal tainted this reputation within the market?Trevor:Oh man, the Volkswagen emissions scandal was like, I hate to ever take advantage of a bad situation, right? But I mean, it was the greatest thing for Nikola that's ever happened because the jackasses-F Geyrhalter:It was fuel to the fire.Trevor:... they lied to the whole world, they deceived everyone. People realized that they were cheaters and the world has now rewarded Tesla and Nikola for both pioneering zero emission around the world. But that's a whole different thing. Why is it built in Ulm? Well, let me break this out real quick. We have two factories. We have one going up in Coolidge Arizona, which is part of Phoenix Arizona. And we have one factory going up in Ulm Germany, right now. And Ulm is spelled U-L-M for all the Americans that don't know how to say Ulm.So the reason why we have Ulm Germany, is because our partner IVECO, we did a massive joint venture with IVECO and this joint venture is going to provide all the battery-electric and hydrogen-electric trucks to all of Europe. So right now, we were the first company to launch the zero-emission truck, we're the first company to do full production of a zero-emission truck. We were first and that's one of the greatest things out there. And it's a full production truck, over 300 miles. There are other people that have the little rinky-dink trucks that go like 150 miles, but I'm talking full 300 miles, pulling a real load.So we're the first company in the world to do it. They're coming out of Ulm Germany. In just a matter of, I would say less than a few months, we'll have the first ones coming out that are hand-built. And by middle to third quarter of next year, full production begins, out of that factory. So in the same time we're building our American factory for our American trucks, we're going to provide both the battery-electric and the hydrogen as well, but they're built to go longer distances, 500 plus miles. So that's kind of how everything's going right now is, yes, we did beat everybody. We beat Daimler, we beat Volvo, we beat Tesla, we beat everybody. And it's a wonderful feeling to be able to do that.F Geyrhalter:Oh, sure. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And even though you're known for your trucks, let's talk about that insanely cool Nikola Badger, which I believe you just made an announcement this morning, when we're recording that it is going to be available for pre-order starting June 29th. So this month, right?Trevor:It is. The Badger's this badass pickup truck. Well, let's just put it this way, the reason why people have not been a fan of electric pickup trucks is because they can't do what a gasoline can do, right? So even with the Cybertruck from Tesla or the Rivian truck, they're very small, they don't go very far. They can't pull a trailer up a 6% grade. They can't handle the continuous load that you can put on a gasoline vehicle. So that's always been the biggest hinderment to a electric truck, was people want a truck that can actually pull a trailer. They can take it to a construction site, they can drive around with their family, they can pull a boat with it or whatever.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, yeah.Trevor:And so we built that. We built the most gorgeous, badass electric, hydrogen pickup truck in the world. And what sets it apart from everything, is that you can order the Badger as a battery-electric truck, that'll give you 3 to 400 miles on its own. And you can also order the Badger as a battery-electric and hydrogen truck, which will give you 600 plus miles on a range.F Geyrhalter:That's insane.Trevor:So the customer can fully spec it, how they want it. And everyone else is like either, "Oh, you'll only get battery." Well, some people need the continuous horsepower or the additional range that hydrogen gives you. And so, you can order either way with a Badger and we're the only ones in the world that offer that.F Geyrhalter:Well, it's 980 torque, I read and 906 horsepower. I mean, that's pretty unreal, right?Trevor:Yeah. It's a very pissed off truck and you have to be careful because it'll come off the ground. So we're having a lot of fun with it. And the best part is here, just in a few days, on June 29th, we're going to start accepting reservations of that. And we're going to show the real truck off here, at the end of this year, at Nikola World 2020. And I'm not talking about some show truck, I'm talking about a metal stamped, beautiful, gorgeous, fully-functioning interior, exterior, power windows, power seats, HVAC, just awesome truck. Every other person out there building trucks, half the features don't even work, because they're just show trucks. This is the real thing.F Geyrhalter:Well, I think you just totally hit the nail on its head, with this entire philosophy around it looking like the next awesome, but a bit more classy and way smarter truck. The design is really, really cool. I went to ArtCenter College of Design, which is a school known for its Transportation Design Alumni, shaping a lot of the industry. There is a lot of talk about tech and engineering with Nikola, but design is also extremely crucial to your company. Can you tell us a little bit about the design philosophy behind the brand and by now, I guess you have what? Six, seven different vehicles in the line?Trevor:So design is everything. I mean, listen, the reason why Apple is Apple, is because they have the greatest designs known to man. Their packaging is incredible, their experience is incredible and their product is stunning. And people don't get this. I mean, it's unbelievable how the automakers make the most ugly-ass vehicles you've ever seen and they expect them to sell. Nikola is, if you were to ever compare it to anything, the gorgeousness of what Apple does with their design and their products is very similar to what Nikola does. Every one of our products, you should see the battles that go on here at Nikola, with the design team and me.If people had a... If they were a fly on the wall, just the stories told would be funny because I come into my design studio and I'll tell my guys, I'm like, "Guys, I won't buy that. That's hideous. And I'll never allow that to be sold. You're going to fix that. And it's got to be something, if it will not sell me, no one will buy it." And it's brutal. You get in, sometimes you have to throw a whole vehicle away because you're like, "It just doesn't work. Nothing works. It doesn't work." And so the Nikola Badger, is probably the most gorgeous truck that's ever been built, in history, in my opinion. And a lot of people agree with that. And that's how all of our product lines are, even our big semi-truck, the Nikola Tre and the Nikola Two, worldwide they're known as the most beautiful semi-trucks ever designed. And imagine that, an American trying to build a European cabover, that's gorgeous.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:The Europeans can't even do that sometimes.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. And I think, one thing that is so important to point out is that a lot of these cars, they're like the future cars, right? You look at them and they don't really feel realistic. But what you guys are doing, you perfectly matched that idea of where people are today and what they expect the future to be, rather than these crazy idea cars that you can't even see them on the roads, right? So that's why I think what you guys did with the Badger is so perfect because it fits in today, yet it stands out. But it doesn't look like this awkward, I don't want to mention any of your competitors, but...Trevor:Well look, this is the thing about truck owners. I'll mention them, the people that are going to buy the Tesla Cybertruck are going to be Tesla fanatics. You're going to get a few people outside that are going to buy it, but it doesn't function as a real truck. It doesn't have the features of a real truck. Now, it's cool, when it comes to like, it's pushing the limits, but it's not a real truck. It doesn't have the visibility you get in a truck. It doesn't have the bed that you get in a truck. It doesn't have the ability to put a fifth wheel on it. A real truck needs to do what real trucks do. And so, we had to build a truck that was gorgeous, yet would function as a real truck. And we partnered up with, actually awesome, the Diesel Brothers. And it's really cool because the Diesel Brothers are known as building diesel trucks, right? They can break any truck ever built, they know how to modify every truck known to man and they know what parts fail.So it was interesting, because we got a lot of questions that said, "Why'd you partner up with Diesel Brothers? They do diesel, you guys are all about zero emission." And I'm like, "Yeah, but the Diesel Brothers, they don't stick their head in the sand and say, 'Oh, only diesel's ever going to function.' They came out and they said, 'Look, it is time now, the world's changing. And we want to be part of the greatest transformation of trucking engineering known to man. And it's going away from diesel right now, it's going to electric mobility.'" So we worked with the Diesel Brothers and they've really helped us build this pickup truck, to become a pickup truck that would never fail. And believe me, we're going to have failures, but we got the teams behind us to make sure that this truck is designed as a real truck.F Geyrhalter:And that's the power of partnerships, right? And understanding who to align yourself with, which is a huge, huge thing for entrepreneurs to learn.Trevor:Yes, this one really bothers me because I preach to people about how important it is to find people that are better than you, to work with. And to work with people that do things better than the things that you're not great at. And I went on this podcast and I got hammered by a lot of my competitors' fans. Because they're like, "Oh, Nikola doesn't do shit themselves. They outsource everything." No, that's not true. We do all the really important stuff, like intellectual property controls, software, hardware development, everything else, we do all that. But what we are not good at is building factories, right? And so these guys hammered us. I mean, all their followers, like tens of thousands are like, "Ah, Nikola's a total con job because they don't build their own factory. These guys are not Tesla."And I'm like, "Do you realize how many billions of dollars have been wasted by Tesla, because they didn't work with someone that knew how to build factories and do them..." I'm a big believer in working with people that are better than you. And so, I don't need to be so arrogant to say that I'm better than everyone at everything. I don't need to be better than everyone at everything. I need to be better than my competitors at one thing and I can beat them. And so, I think that's what we do is we're really good at partnerships. We're going to be signing a joint venture for the Nikola Badger with a big OEM and it's going to be sold, serviced, and warrantied through their dealership, all across America. And I get access to that, day one. I don't need to go out and spend $5 billion building our own service network.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:So I'm a big believer in partnerships.F Geyrhalter:And that's what happens when you failed a couple of startups and when you sold a couple of companies, right? I mean, that is just that kind of information that you gather throughout the journey. And a lot of people wouldn't understand that immediately. But we talked about you obviously competing head-on with Elon Musk. Tell me, is the Nikola brand name really derived from Tesla's first name, the actual inventor Nikola Tesla? Was that a "Go bold or go home" move of yours, where you said, "If we go in, we go fully in?"Trevor:Yeah. I mean, look, so it was named after the Serbian-Croatian brilliant mastermind that probably had a greater impact on society than anyone else in the world. He created the alternative current, the generator, the turbine, all kinds of things. This guy was the most brilliant electrical engineer known to man. He could power vehicles wirelessly. He could power homes wirelessly from miles away. Even today, we still don't know how he did it all.It was named after the inventor, Nikola Tesla, and it had nothing to do with Elon or Tesla themselves. They didn't even enter my mind when I was making this decision because I was naming it after the inventor. And just like millions of other people that looked up to that inventor, it's to pay tribute to him. Has nothing to do with the Tesla car company at all. It's just cool that Tesla is making one of the biggest impacts in the world for electric mobility in cars. And Nikola is making one of the biggest impacts in the world for Electromobility in trucks. And so, it is kind of cool to think about that, the fact that Nikola and Tesla are both kicking ass and beating everyone around the world.F Geyrhalter:And I noticed that you don't own a nikola.com, which is a very sad website for what appears to be a small electronics design engineering firm. There must have been a conversation to acquire the .com. What is the juicy story behind that domain name and how Nikola doesn't have the .com?Trevor:The name was taken already and the guy had no interest in selling it. So he may sell it one day, it's becoming more and more valuable. I'm sure he'll sell it to someone, it'll probably be someone who hates us and trashes us.F Geyrhalter:But no more interest from your end, you moved on.Trevor:No. Yeah. I mean look, everyone knows it's Nikola Motor. And when they look us up, it's already well established that way. We can see how many people actually type in our name and the wrong name and we might get 1% more that actually go to the right name. I don't care about the domain, it all comes down to the fact that it's Nikola Motor. It's not Nikola, it's Nikola Motor. So I don't know, who knows? If he ever wants to sell it, we talked but he had no desire to, and I'm sure our competitors will probably offer him some stupid amount of money and buy it.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. Or he might ring you now that you're IPO.Trevor:I'll give him one of the first Badgers, one of the most valuable thing. He'll love that.F Geyrhalter:Oh, there you go. Done, you heard it here first. So let's talk about the brand a little bit more. I know we only have 10 more minutes or so, to go. But when my brother and I were kids and we were on those long road trips across Europe, in my parent's tiny little Renault, we played the game on who could identify passing cars by brand, based on their rims and logos. When was that N brand, the brand mark on the badge, the N. When was it crafted for Nikola? I feel like this is a more recent addition to the company's branding, right?Trevor:No, it was actually from day one. The N, it was from day one and it was made to be almost like a superhero logo. So if you were to look at Superman or you were at one of the other ones, you'll notice that it's one letter and usually circled by something. And that's why we went with the Nikola, that's why we designed that was, it's an N with a border around it. And what that does is, you can see it from a mile away and you'll know it's Nikola. It's so distinguishable that nothing ever will confuse it. And that was the idea is, it truly is a superhero. And that's what's cool about it. You'll see it from a mile away and everyone will know it's a Nikola, playing that game in their car, with all their children.F Geyrhalter:That's exactly it. You would have passed the test. What does branding mean to you? I mean, after going through a couple of startups and now having achieved what very few entrepreneurs will ever achieve with the IPO, what does branding mean to your company?Trevor:I'd say there's three or four main pillars of building a company that will last forever and actually make money. Branding and design is one of them. Your team is another one, your team. And then your ability to communicate is one of the four pillars. There's a ton of them, right? But the idea is, your ability to communicate, which is part of branding. Branding and design is everything. People, they want to touch your product, they want to be proud of it. And they're not going to go drop 60 to $100,000 on a pickup truck if they don't think it's the most gorgeous thing that they've ever seen. And people have got to learn, branding and design is everything.It's one reason why I love Audi. Look, there is no better design company, I think in the world than Audi itself. Their team has got their shit down so good, when it comes to branding and design. It's probably the only thing that saved Volkswagen. And that's why you got to be an expert at branding and design. It's everything, it speaks to someone's soul. People have to be proud of representing what you have and that's why the branding and design's so important.F Geyrhalter:Well, and the brand is the soul of your company too, so it touches everything. It touches your company culture, HR, it goes pretty deep. And since your company is based on a strong purpose, on actually changing the world, I'm sure that that had ripple effects from the get-go. I'm sure you don't have a hard time hiring people in your company.Trevor:No.F Geyrhalter:If we think about the DNA of your brand, right? That one word that could describe your brand. I always love to figure out, what can it be, if we just put everything into one concise word? So if you think about Coca Cola, they really try to push the word, happiness, right? If you think about Zappos, it's definitely customer service, right? They're all about service. What is one word that could potentially describe your brand? What could be the brand DNA of your company, if you would have to put it in a funnel and really figure out like, what could be one word? Totally on the spot here. But I know you can do it.Trevor:It would be hard to put it on one word, but I'd say it's something along the lines of emissions, game over.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:Everything we stand for, is getting rid of emissions and diesel is dead. It's everything around transformation. I would say probably transformation is really our... Because it transforms everything. It transforms, design, style, the culture, emissions. So if it had to be one word, probably transformation.F Geyrhalter:I think you nailed it nicely. You talked yourself through this one well. Communication, right? That's what it is. What's a final piece of brand advice for founders, as a takeaway? You already dropped a lot of them, but if you have someone listening, who's like, "Man, I would love to get my company to IPO. How do I do it?" Do you want to point them back to the LinkedIn article? Or is there something that is on your mind where you feel like, "Look, this is one thing that entrepreneurs just always, always mess up?"Trevor:No, there's two articles they need to go read. They're more powerful than anything I can say today, because I laid out with written words and they can study it. There's two articles. One's called A random airport encounter. And the other one's called How to get back up when you've lost everything. These two articles are the most powerful articles you'll ever read, in my opinion, as an entrepreneur ever. They're coming from the most painful position I've ever felt in my life, losing everything. It comes from a position of love and happiness and hope and explaining to people what it means to not give up. Everyone fails and you're going to fail hard. And the key is to never, ever quit, no matter how hard or how long it is, you can never, ever give up.And those articles are incredible because they go into detail. The airport one's about a kid who I met in the airport asking me, how he was going to college and he was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur and what advice I had for him. And I gave him a quick five minute thing in the airport. He had no idea who I was either, by the way, he had no clue.F Geyrhalter:That's great.Trevor:I was just talking to this kid. And then later he found out who I was and he sent me an email. And I gave him this written letter back and I posted this letter I gave him. And it's me writing to this kid. And I'm telling you, it's one of the most powerful letters you'll ever read. And I hope it's taught in every business school in the world because it's not like any letter you'll ever read. It's not written by a professor, it's written by pain. It's written by absolute failure and everything I learned in these situations. And then it's also written by hope, about how to get out of it.And that's a real life experience, of this shit storm you're going to go through to build your own company and ever get listed, is you better be ready to have battle wounds and scars all over your body and you better be ready to dedicate 10 years, or you're going to fail. And you're probably going to fail anyways. But then these are ways you can actually get back up and keep going. And eventually, like Mark Cuban says, all you got to do is hit it once. All you got to do is hit a home run one time, that's it and they'll love you, just do it once. It doesn't matter if it takes you five times, all you got to do is do at once.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. What was the most ginormous brand fail that you went through, with Nikola?Trevor:Say that again, I'm sorry. What were you asking?F Geyrhalter:What was the biggest brand fail that you went through, with Nikola, with the actual current-Trevor:What do you mean by brand fail? I haven't used that terminology here. What do you mean by brand fail?F Geyrhalter:Where do you feel like your company did something, from a branding perspective, where it just bombed, like maybe it was a statement that you put out or maybe it was a name you gave a certain vehicle or maybe you just communicated something in a certain way where afterwards you were like, "Oh, Whoa, that totally went the wrong way?"Trevor:Well, luckily we haven't had too many of those moments, because of a lot of the experiences I've had, but I'll tell you the one that made the biggest difference. When we first started out, there was no technology and fuel cell or battery electric yet. It was very, very new. And so we started out as a turbine electric, natural gas, hybrid truck. And that was the only technology available at the time. And that was pushing the limits. And I went to my board and I said, "Guys, the technology fuel cell is now far enough along and batteries, we have to pivot from this low-emission turbine to a fuel cell." And my board shit a brick. Like, "There's no way, we're already far down this road. We can't just pivot." And I said, "You don't know me. I don't care what the repercussions are."And this is something I teach in that letter, when you have a conviction of something, you better listen to yourself. And I said, "It's time to change, and I change it." And they freaked out. I mean, it was almost relationship severing, right? And sure enough, it was the biggest, greatest, smartest move we ever did, going zero emission. Once that technology was far enough along, we could pioneer it. And man, what an impact it made. And it's a single reason why we're here today. So to all the entrepreneurs out there, you better believe in yourself, and if you do, stand by your convictions, no matter what anyone tells you. You're the only one qualified to make those decisions. Don't listen to the people around you, make your own decisions.F Geyrhalter:Amen. I need to let you go, I promised you. So listeners who want to see your line of trucks or get their hands on the most badass zero-emission truck, as you call it, the Nikola Badger, where can they find you?Trevor:They can go to nikolamotor.com, that's where all of our products are. And then, they can also follow me on Twitter, nikolatrevor. And our company Twitter's nikolamotor. I would definitely follow me on Twitter, because you get data way faster than you get it anywhere else. So make sure you follow me on Twitter, @nikolatrevor.F Geyrhalter:Twitter's the new homepage. Awesome. Well, thank you Trevor, for having been on the show, especially after the IPO, this is a crazy week for you. So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with my audience. We all really appreciate it.Trevor:Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Bye bye.F Geyrhalter:Awesome. Thanks. Bye Trevor.

The world has a knack for attempting to put a happy face on some deep, dark times of crisis - 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!' - 'Don't worry, be happy!' - 'Look on the bright side!' - But sometimes an earthquake so shakes our lives that there doesn't seem to be a bright side. Remember, mountains rise from earthquakes! Pastor Greg Laurie helps us put our past to use in the most fulfilling ways. Support the show: https://harvest.org/resources/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Steven McKie, CEO and founding partner at Amentum Capital, discusses the incidents involving Amy Cooper and George Floyd and the resulting protests, and how systemic racism affects black entrepreneurs in crypto. In this episode we discuss: His personal story from a childhood in poverty to running a crypto hedge fund How companies that want to hire from underrepresented groups have to change their habits to reach out to those communities Why underrepresented communities can be easily left behind at the time of technological revolutions Why Black Americans express more interest in crypto than white Americans and yet are still underrepresented What he says when people say that underrepresented groups choose not to be involved in crypto since there are no barriers Take our survey! Tell us what would you like to see from Unchained! Please take a moment to fill out the survey to let us know what you’d like from the show: surveymonkey.com/r/unchained2020. Crypto.com has offered our survey respondents a chance to win a metal MCO Visa card — and Crypto.com will stake these cards indefinitely! Ten lucky winners will enjoy card benefits including free Spotify, free Netflix and 3% back on all spending, and they’ll earn extra interest on their crypto deposit and more!  Thanks, Crypto.com! Again, take the survey now: surveymonkey.com/r/unchained2020. Unchained is hiring! Come work at Unchained! We have an opening for a remote editorial assistant — find out more about the gig and apply here: https://unchainedpodcast.com/seeking-remote-editorial-assistant/ Thank you to our sponsors!  Crypto.com: https://crypto.com Nexo: https://nexo.io DeversiFi: https://deversifi.com Episode links:  Steven McKie: https://twitter.com/Steven_McKie Amentum: https://amentum.org Steven's personal story:  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-started-from-the-bottom-bitcoin-investor-went-from-poverty-to-launching-a-hedge-fund-2017-12-18 Coinbase Reports: Black Americans and Crypto: https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-reports-black-americans-crypto-97e54cc89f84 Weekly News Recap: https://unchainedpodcast.com/where-the-bitcoins-are/

Why stick to any one genre? Our guest this week is Catherine Newman: memoirist, middle grade novelist, etiquette columnist and now the author of How to Be a Person: 65 Highly Useful, Super-Important Things to Learn Before You’re Grown-Up. While she’s at it, she writes a cooking blog, co-authored a book on crafts for kids and edits ChopChop, a kids cooking magazine. And she pens frequent funny essays for everything from O to the New York Times to the Cup of Jo website. In other words, she’s putting a pastiche of writing together and making it work with an insouciant disregard for any and all advice about self-branding or owning an niche or sticking to one topic or identity.In fact, I’d argue that “insouciant disregard” might just BE her brand. This episode also includes the immortal words “I’ve never had to kill anything during the podcast before,” uttered by Jess—so that’s a reason to listen right there. But there are plenty of others—this is a real nitty gritty episode on building a career and getting things done.#AmReadingKJ: Henna Artist by Alka JoshiRecipes for a Beautiful Life by Rebecca BarryJess: Sure Shot by Sarina BowenAnimal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara KingsolverMissing You by Harlan CobenCatherine: Know My Name by Chanel MillerSea Wife by Amity GaigeThe Chicken Sisters by KJ Dell’AntoniaThanks to everyone who supports the podcast financially. To join that team, click the button below:But it’s all good. The pod is free as it always has and always will be. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it every time there’s a new episode.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.KJ Dell'Antonia 0:00 Hey writers KJ here. Usually I write down what I'm going to tell you in our pre episode, promotional blurb, whatever you want to call this, and I will say right away that of course we are, as always sponsored by our friends at Author Accelerator, who we love. This week, instead of writing down some great reasons why we love them I just wanted to take a minute to read to you from the email that I got from Jenny Nash this week. This is her weekly email that goes out to anyone who's on the Author Accelerator list, or read every single one of those and I cannot say that about almost any other weekly email I get, there a couple. Anyway, Jenny writes, "I was speaking with a writer this week who could see the light at the end of the tunnel on her novel. She was almost done and she was terrified. She could feel herself panicking and turning to other shiny new ideas. Anything that wasn't this almost done idea. Being done would mean that her work could be rejected. Being done would mean that her work could be judged. Being done would mean that her limitations and weaknesses as a writer would be on display for everyone to see. Being done would mean that whatever she had on the page was as good as she was able to do. Even if it wasn't anywhere close to the perfect story in her mind. Being done would mean that she would be exposed." I could really, really relate to that. And I think I'm not the only one. A lot of us start to let things go the minute we get anywhere close to the finish line, because the finish line is scary. And if that's the place where you are maybe now is the moment when you want to reach out and see about working with a writing coach. You might not need much a few weeks, a little bit of a push, a little bit of help, just to take that thing that you're working on, and get it through to not the almost best you can do (which you know allows a lot of room for imagining other things) but the actual best you could do and then make a real decision about what it is you'd like to do with it. If you're game for that, you should head over to authoraccelerator.com and click your way through to all the great places because we love them and there's also a lot of other good stuff there. While I'm here I also want to say that this episode includes a couple of small swear words here and there and also some weird commentary on vaginas. Because this is one of our dearest friends we're interviewing this week and we got a little bit weird. So letting you know that so if you have tiny ears around that you are concerned about? Honestly, it's no big on this one. I don't think that it will bother you, but I wanted to give you a heads up. Alright. Enjoy it. This is a great episode. Is it recording?Jess Lahey 2:51 Now it's recording. KJ Dell'Antonia 2:53 This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone trying to remember what I'm supposed to be doing.Jess Lahey 2:57 Alright, let's start over.KJ Dell'Antonia 2:58 Awkward pause. I'm gonna rustle some papers. Okay, now one, two, three.Hey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia. And this is #AmWriting. The podcast about writing all things, from fiction, to nonfiction, pitches, proposals, emails, essays. This is the podcast about sitting down and getting your writing work done. Jess Lahey 3:27 I'm Jess Lahey, I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and the forthcoming book The Addiction Inoculation, Raising Healthy Kids in a Culture of Dependence, who the subtitles are always so tricky, and you can find my work on the old interwebs at The Atlantic and the New York Times and The Washington Post and lots of other places.KJ Dell'Antonia 3:58 I am KJ Dell'Antonia, the author of the novel The Chicken Sisters coming out on July 1 of this year, which is 2020. For those of you listening in the future, when I hope things are not what they are now, but that is not what we are going to talk about today. We have a guest, our guest is Catherine Newman, who we've actually been trying to record with Catherine since like since like our 10th episode. But wait, I want to tell you about Catherine, she is a memoirist, a middle grade novelist, and etiquette columnist and now the author of How to Be a Person: 66 Highly Useful, Super Important Things to Learn Before You're Grown Up.Jess Lahey 4:57 It's actually 65, but I think that we should invent a 66 while we're here.KJ Dell'Antonia 5:22 Okay, no, I wasn't done. I wasn't done - because while she's at it, Catherine writes a cooking blog, she co-authored a book on crafts for kids, and she edits Chop Chop, a kid's cooking magazine, which I didn't even know till I just recently read her bio because I never read the bios of my friends because I'm supposed to know all this stuff, but I didn't. And she pens frequent funny essays for everything from O to The New York Times to The Cup of Joe website. In other words, she's putting a pastiche of writing together and making it work with an insouciance disregard for any and all advice about self branding, or owning a niche, or sticking to one topic or an identity, and in fact, I would argue that insouciance disregard might just be Catherine Newman's brand.Catherine Newman 6:10 Oh, my God, that's it. I just feel like that's the mic drop. I'm so happy. I also feel like you just fully explained all the problems I have. It's my insouciance disregard.Well, I loved your intro. My intro really would have been you know, this is Catherine Newman for me is the writer that, not only a person I adore and know personally, but as a writer she's the one who always figures out the new way to say the thing I have been feeling and yet felt so cliched that I never wrote it down. She always has some new amazing way to state it and then I'm like, 'Oh my gosh, how has no one ever said it that way before?' and it's so true and perfect and beautiful. And you know, for a lot of writers that write about parenting and this whole racket that we call life, often if they have a favorite piece, I often will say let me guess was it by Catherine Newman because her pieces just rank as people's favorites.Jess Lahey 8:00 We love your stuff. But you guys, you and KJ have a much longer relationship than you and I do, Catherine. So KJ, tell them where you guys met.KJ Dell'Antonia 8:09 I don't know where we met. I know that Catherine wrote for me at Motherlode but it must have been Wonder Time. The late great that says that it's not the greatest like the more I say the name now that it's gone, the dumber it sounds, but it really was. Yeah, okay. Soft sigh of regret. And while we're having soft sighs of regret for demises of magazines, I hear Family Circle just tanked. I mean, I know that was like in the fall, but... Catherine Newman 8:49 I know I always feel like I'm there on that tiny little island of sinking magazines.Jess Lahey 8:57 I'm just about to send out an email today saying Hi, want me to write anything? Anything you got - I'll write that thing.KJ Dell'Antonia 9:40 Great. Okay, so here we are, finally, at last.So okay. 65 (not 66) Highly Useful, Super Important Things to Learn Before You're Grown Up. Why that after a resume that includes two parenting memoirs, one crafting book, and one middle grade novel that was my middle grader at the time absolute total favorite, he even reviewed it for Parenting magazine. Yeah, he still looks back on that with fondness because he has a hard time finding books that he likes. Anyway. And so from there you thought I know, the best thing and the easiest thing for me to market next would clearly be a book of useful things to learn before you're grown up. I don't think that's really how you did it.Catherine Newman 10:37 Yeah, no, no, I know. Isn't that crazy? Really, the dirty truth is that I pitched it as a much worse book. I wanted a book, I went to the library to look for a book, I don't know if you ever end up writing this way where it's like, oh, this thing doesn't exist that I assumed existed. But I went to the library to get a book for Bertie, because I wanted her to do more helpful stuff in the house, but she didn't know how to do it. And she didn't want to be taught how to do it by anybody. So this is, second child has been wanting to do it by herself since she was two. And it's really hard with a person like that, who doesn't want to be shown how to do something and then you ask them like, 'Hey, can you clean the bathroom?' And she's like, 'I don't know how to do that.' But then if you try to show her she's pissed. So for Bertie it worked, so I went to the library to get I assumed like DK had made one of those like photo illustrated guides to chores, you know...KJ Dell'Antonia 11:52 I might need that, there are things I don't really know how to do. Truth. Catherine Newman 11:57 So I went to get that book from the library, like I walked in confidently, talked to the librarian and they were like, 'Yeah, we don't have a book like that.' So I was working with Story at the time (the publisher)and who I love and my editor there is an old person from Family Fun who I used to write all this fun stuff with. KJ Dell'Antonia 12:22 That was also a fun place to write.Catherine Newman 12:25 Oh my God, so fun. So she and I had worked on a piece that I think killed me called Chores Fun. So I pitched her the book Chores Fun and I wanted it to be photo illustrated, step by step, DK style. And she was interested, but needless to say that got higher up over there and they were like, 'No...'KJ Dell'Antonia 12:50 And me, I want that book. I would buy 500 copies of that book. Catherine Newman 12:58 So they then said, you know, can you expand it so it's not just that? And so the other thing I really had wanted to write was, I want to say etiquette, but I don't mean in the like uptight, sort of like how to talk to the Queen of England sons, just the like how to communicate sense of etiquette, like how to be a person who needs to communicate with other people. I had wanted to write a book about that, too. And so we sort of merged those. And the book for me is primarily that but then we broke it down a little so it seems like it's many more topics than communicating and like cleaning a bathroom. So there's some stuff about cooking, and some stuff about money, and some stuff about just general skills like you know, changing batteries and that's how it came to be. And so I have found both of my kids with galleys of the book open to learn whatever it is they need to do. Bernie has used the book to tie a necktie and swears it works. And when I had asked them to clean all the bathrooms at Thanksgiving, I went in and the book was like, propped up on the counter in the bathroom.Jess Lahey 14:16 Oh my gosh, that's so brilliant. KJ Dell'Antonia 14:17 I had not thought of that. We've been cleaning bathrooms like crazy around here and yeah, I discovered that one child claimed to have been taught to wipe the toilet with a Clorox wipe and then flush it. And when I tell you that we're on septic I can also tell you that that ended extremely badly with men in the basement and saws. Oh, God, yeah, that's not how to clean a toilet. And I really didn't tell her that either.Catherine Newman 14:47 No, I can imagine.KJ Dell'Antonia 14:49 Anyway, I have now taught this skill, but I feel that it needs refreshing so I'm gonna prop that up. Jess Lahey 14:57 I'm gonna do the same thing. There's that forgetting of things that technically they should know. And as we've talked about a bajillion times for me - that one was laundry and we solved that with the dry erase markers on the washer and dryer with all of the instructions and the bathroom one seems to be the next frontier that we have to handle around here.KJ Dell'Antonia 15:22 Well, the truth is that in this moment, any of us who did have someone who sometimes cleaned for us whether that was frequent or infrequent, don't have that. Anyway, most of us are, even if there's stuff that maybe we didn't have to do before, or we were teaching our kids to do it but they didn't necessarily have to do it I could kind of poke at it and that was fine because the person who really could do it was gonna be there in two weeks. So now it's like yeah, this is how you clean the toilet. Jess Lahey 16:17 Here's the nice thing about this book also is that there are so many times when you show a kid how to do it and you're being a little overly controlling or they're like no one else does that, no one cleans behind the toilet seat, Mom, you can show them a book and say, 'Look, this is how an arbiter of how these things should be done is actually doing things. KJ Dell'Antonia 16:55 So what has it been, like getting out there to share this book that is, in many ways, so different than from what you've done before?Catherine Newman 17:18 I could ask you the same. You know, it's funny. The funny thing for me is that my first two books were so intimate that actually, it was really like trial by fire in terms of publishing. So when people would blur together sort of criticizing the book with criticizing me as a parent or even just me as a person, because the memoir genre kind of invites that and it was really little nerve racking, honestly. And so then after that there was fiction, which is so delightful because it's fiction. And there was a book I did with my friend Nicole, that craft book, which is so delightful, because a) it's a craft book, so no one's gonna, like take my character apart over it and b) it was with a friend. So you know, it's like how I used to love co-teaching when I was teaching, like it's so dreamy to have a partner in something because you're not stranded. So this is none of those. This is not a memoir. It's not fiction. I don't have a partner in it, but it doesn't feel dangerous to me. It just feels like oh, kids need to know how to do stuff. And I feel pretty good about it being useful. So I don't have like weird shame, you know the memoirs for me, I promoted them with shame. I mean, I had blathered on and on about all my deepest fears about parenting and my kids and then I had to go sell it and it was so humiliating and I just am feeling a delightful absence of shame around this book. So I don't know if that's what you asked or how I ended up there. So I'm feeling pretty happy. I feel like it's coming out. I actually weirdly feel like the timing for my book is good because lots of kids are home. Jess Lahey 19:46 I'm in total agreement with you on that one. Catherine Newman 19:50 And I feel like lots of parents genuinely need help. So it doesn't even feel artificial. You know, sometimes you have to teach your kids stuff even though it'd be much easier just to do it. I know you both know that because You both have talked to me about that, but I feel like this moment where I can say hey, I am well to welcome someone make dinner you know it doesn't feel like a learning avenue it's just real life and the kids are in it with us and they're old enough to see it, it doesn't feel contentious and so I guess I feel like this is actually not a bad moment for a book like that. You know, I'm so glad I don't have some book coming out about I don't even know. I think we're lucky like KJ I weirdly feel like this about your book too, that your book even though it's fiction, and it's like this total romance, it's so perfect because it offers something that people need in this moment, like I needed to read about these feuding fried chicken places. And it was like this ace in the hole for me that I knew I could just relax and read it and it was so that it was like the most incredibly pleasurable comforting diversion. So anyway, I feel like it would just be terrible to be coming out with a book that was like entering the workforce or you know, something that was like so not the moment for it...KJ Dell'Antonia 22:06 Thank you for saying lovely things about The Chicken Sisters, I'm super excited to share it. And I am kind of with you, I had a lot of angst around How To Be a Happier Parent because I kept going, it's happier, and not better, either. I felt like, you know, who was I to talk and to say those things and so I felt a lot of stress around that, that I don't feel. You know, it's a fun novel. That's what it's supposed to be. And it is that and it's got pretty yellow cover, and I am looking forward to everyone being able to buy it.Catherine Newman 22:54 No one's hoping to solve a problem with it, except maybe just wanting to be diverted. You won't fail, you know...KJ Dell'Antonia 23:17 Did you find people pushing you to do something else that was more in line with what you've done before? You know does your agent say like 'Well, could you just write another memoir? Or a collection of essays perhaps.'Catherine Newman 23:51 The funny thing is I'm a terrible pitcher. Like I really like for people to come to me and be like, 'You know what we need?' And I'm like, 'Sure, you know, because I am, as I have said for 20 years, I'm just a writing tramp. I will write whatever, as long as it doesn't like conflict with my politics, you know, but I've written you know, whatever copy to say that the tampons not gonna fall out of your body without ever using the word tampon or body. I mean, give me whatever and I will write it. Like I even like being assigned weird stuff because then it's like doing a crossword puzzle. You know, it doesn't ask that much of you emotionally. But, all of that is to say that I am not dying to publish another book of essays or another memoir and maybe at some point, I will. I mean, I have a lot of interest in all of us doing an anthology about like menopause. That would be really, really funny. But, I feel like something collaborative that was like more a collaborative essay project. And I feel the same way about writing about older kids. I would love to do it collaboratively. But I definitely don't want to write a whole book about it. My guess is if I do another book after this, it'll be an adult novel. Adult novel always sounds like it's porn... I have an adult novel I want to write that I've been sort of writing and it's that thing where now I don't know how to write it because I'm starting to lose track of the world before the pandemic, even though I lived in it for 50 years. So I don't know, that's always lingering around as a thing I want to write and then, you know, I want to write another book in this genre for Story for sure. And I wouldn't be surprised if that something happened, I don't know if it would be a follow up, or we would have to see, I guess.Jess Lahey 27:25 So for writers that are wishing they can cobble together this Higgledy Piggledy, a little writing here, a little writing there a little of this genre. How I mean, I know it's impossible to say, I'm assuming you're not going to say, Oh, yes, I had this all written out. 10 years ago. This is exactly the path I have designed for myself.Catherine Newman 27:44 You mean when I was getting a PhD for 10 years, but I then went on to not use? Yeah, that really wasn't the plan. Jess Lahey 27:52 Yeah, that was while I was at law school, learning how to be a juvenile attorney. So you know, for those writers who look to us to have some sort of takeaway about how to create a life around writing for themselves? I mean, do you have anything you could share for us in terms of how you've managed to cobble together this really interesting career?Catherine Newman 28:15 Well, thank you for calling it both Higgledy Piggledy and interesting because I think of it really as both of those. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, nothing that you haven't heard on this podcast before. I feel like the old improv yes and advice I do think about, I say no to nothing. Again, only if it conflicts with my politics. So I've never been proud and I continue not to be, I will write most things and I will work on most projects and I will give it away if it's a worthy cause. I'm more than happy to write something for someone doing something that's important. So I ended up with tons of relationships and I know you're both the same that for both of you that sort of one of the treasures of your writing and publishing life is these ongoing really well nurtured relationships and I don't I do it as well as you guys, truly. But that said, I do maintain relationships with everyone I've ever written for and they end up who knows where like, you write the shitty Kotex copy and then that person goes to O Magazine, I just feel all the time like people move around so much. And as long as I make myself easy to work with, and available, then I feel like I get a lot of assignments just because those two things turn out to be, I think marketable skills weirdly.Jess Lahey 30:10 I find it shocking that you say you're not as good at it because we had never met, I admired your writing so much, and you agreed to have coffee with me never having met me before when I happened to be in your town. So I disagree that you are not very good at cultivating these relationships and you know, whenever I talk about your writing, people talk about the fact that they really admire you as a writer, so I think that you do a really good job of that.Catherine Newman 30:42 Well, thank you. I loved the idea too, that you like called me out of the blue. I totally was already stalking you. KJ Dell'Antonia 30:58 Catherine, I think you have a gig right now that a lot of writers would both kill for and also feel like well hey I could do that, I could weigh in on etiquette issue real simple and getting a column is kind of the gold standard of what people want that's hard to achieve and I get a lot of questions about it and I'm not at all helpful. So I would like to give you the opportunity to be not at all helpful - like how did it happen?Catherine Newman 31:36 Oh my god, it was so like a one thing and another and it was exactly the thing of an editor I'd worked with somewhere unglamorous ended up at Real Simple. And then I wrote something for her there and their etiquette columnist was leaving, they asked me to audition which was so nerve racking. so I The question was something like my cousin without talking to us named her twins after my twins like what would you do?So I it was just luck but a lot of my luckiest things (seemingly luckiest things) come from having said yes to really outrageous things either low paying things or things that I wrote for a good cause. I would just say for me, I think almost everything good in my career has come from a certain openness and willingness. You know, it's like when my kids were little and they were writing thank you notes for shitty presents, you know that they didn't like and weren't happy to get and I would say there's always something true you can say that's gonna be real, like someone gave you a gift that in and of itself is something to be thankful for and you can express that. That sounds so corny, but whatever. That's how I am. And I think like almost any opportunity I'm given to write I do feel like there's an opportunity to make some kind of meaning out of it, if that makes sense. Either to take pleasure in the writing or to say something funny or to get a little philosophy into it or a little politics into it. And so I guess I think of even the weirdest stuff as an opportunity, which I think is a head game I play with myself because I'm never going to be successful enough to not need to keep writing all this stuff all the time. You know, I am just constantly writing and that feeling I have of everything being a little bit of an opportunity, you know, we're all writers, because we're curious about the world, I feel like at bottom, that's probably the main thing we all have in common. And you can always express that, you know what I mean? Even if it's something that feels sort of random. So that's a long way to say that I think every writing gig is an opportunity. I mean, unless somewhere wealthy is grossly under paying you then don't do that. Like they can't do that. That's wrong. But I just mean, you know, some of the stuff that isn't like a perfect fit or isn't high profiler isn't very glamorous, those things have always led to other things for me, almost, almost inevitably, in a way that I feel like is karmic in the true sense of what you put out into the world comes back to you.KJ Dell'Antonia 34:51 We talk about things in that category a lot because we make a practice of getting annoyed with each other whenever we say I got lucky because yes, we have been lucky but yeah, fortune favors the well prepared. You know, Dax Shepard can't ask you on his podcast and Kristen Bell can't share your book unless you have written it and perhaps presented it to her. Yes, some things land and some things don't. But if you don't throw any paper airplanes up ain't nothing gonna hit.Catherine Newman 36:05 I feel like it's partly luck and partly this other gendered thing, which is I am a pleaser and I have really mixed feelings about that because on the one hand like I have raised Bertie to not be a pleaser...KJ Dell'Antonia 36:25 You wrote about that for me at Motherlode and it's such a hysterical piece and it made people so delighted and so angry at the same time.Catherine Newman 36:32 Yeah, but I am such a pleaser and that has served me really well in my career. And I never as a feminist, I always have really mixed feelings about it because some of it feels really gendered to me that I'm friendly. Let me say as a side note to my own comment that I was just making. I think one of the beauties of freelancing is that you can't take any of your relationships for granted and you shouldn't anyway, I mean, I really feel that right. If you're in a workplace, you should always be nurturing your relationships and taking care of everybody in that way. But freelancing, no one ever has to hire you again. It reminds me a little bit, if you will, of waiting tables, which I was excellent at. Where you're always gonna do best if you were your sort of best self if what you put out is the best version of yourself it's gonna bring you the best work and connect you to the best people. And the truth is, it actually makes my life good because I mostly have positive interactions and that's so much better for me than getting into bed at night and be like Oh God, I had the worst interaction with somebody. So if something's kind of weird I'll like die about it. And I just feel like freelancing I mostly have to be somebody that people would want to hire. You know, I know I keep sounding like such a w***e. But there it is.KJ Dell'Antonia 38:21 That's kind of how it works some of the time. So Catherine, what have you been reading?Catherine Newman 39:59 So truly The Chicken Sisters was my segue back into reading but I wanted to mention a book that actually I was reading right before that, which was (I don't know if you've talked about it on the podcast), but the Chanel Miller book, Know My Name. I admired it so much. I just love her and I love her as an illustrator and I just love everything about her. And as a memoir, I thought the gift of being able to write about something so terrible, with so much love and optimism just blew me away. Like, it's everything I ever sort of wanted to be as a writer. And that book just killed me. I thought it was so incredibly good. I almost wanted to read it again to study it.Jess Lahey 41:32 I didn't know she was a writer, so I was a little nervous. And then I was so blown away, especially towards the second half. I found there were a few moments in the first half where I wasn't totally with her, but then it just picked up steam in terms of it felt to me almost that she got to be a better writer during the process of writing it and at the end of it I went off for a walk in the woods by myself because I had to sort of just process that book. It was exquisite. It was so well doneCatherine Newman 41:59 I had honestly just the exact same. I read it because I felt like this kind of moral obligation as a feminist not to turn away from the story, was so I felt like I should read this book. I picked it up with a dread of obligation. And then it's just sang, it was so beautiful. So that book and Bertie read it after and was crazy about it. And so that book, I have other books, but I want to hear what you're reading, too. Jess Lahey 42:47 KJ, you want to go next?KJ Dell'Antonia 42:57 I've started some books. Okay. I'm going to tell you that I'm rereading a book, because I can tell you with confidence that I love this book and I have enjoyed it. I think this is a multiple read. I've read this many times because it's just soothing and kind of wonderful. And I think I've talked about it on the podcast. Catherine Newman 43:15 Can I guess? Is it I Capture the Castle?KJ Dell'Antonia 43:19 No, but I do like that. No, not at all. It's a memoir, and it's called Recipes for a Beautiful Life by Rebecca Berry. She wrote it in like 2008 or it takes place in like 2008 so it's got a lot of the the economy crash in there as she and her family are moving. We all know I'll read anything in which a family moves to a small town in a rural place and makes a new life for themselves. Anyway, I have really enjoyed that. So that is what I can guarantee for you. I have started The Henna Artist and I really like it so far. I'm gonna mangle her name so I'm going to look it up for the show notes. At chapter three I'm really liking it, but we all know how that could go, but I don't think it will.Jess Lahey 44:22 Well I have to start with I listened to the audio of Sarina Bowen's newest book Sure Shot and I got to talk about it with her because she did some really interesting things in there and we were talking a little bit. We were talking about authors who are gardeners and they plant seeds for new things and Sarina just did an exquisite job in this book. I love her books from just a listening to the story perspective but I also love watching her go and sort of planting the seeds for the books that will follow in the series because she writes books in a series and this is one of the Brooklyn Bruisers hockey books and I just from a technical perspective adored listening to Sure Shot her new hockey romance. But it's funny KJ that you said the thing about small town and comfort and making a life in a small town thing because my comfort listen this past couple of weeks on and off has been Animal Vegetable Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver because I've been prepping my gardens, I've spent so much time not writing as much but doing a ton of gardening and so listening to Barbara Kingsolver while I do that has been has been just wonderful. And the last thing I just finished last night was another Harlan Coben, this one was called Missing You and it was really clever. And we have to try to get Harlan Coben on the show because he does this thing that Sarina had told me about that he's known for, which is the the climax at the end of the book, except it's got two peaks, not one. Like you think you've hit the climax and you have the answers and then he hits you again, with a second sort of twist climax. And it's so it's his thing. He does it over and over and over again. And he's so good at it. The guy plots a book like nobody's business, so I'm dying to talk to him. So if anyone out there knows Harlan Coben, I would love to talk to him about how he plots his books. But anyway, so that's been what I've been listening to and it's been all listening. A little bit of reading books in hand but mostly listening because I've been out in the garden. Catherine Newman 47:25 Can I mention one other book? I just so what I just read is my friend Amity Gage's book, Sea Wife. And it's not at all comforting at all takes place on a sailboat. And it's a young family, a married couple and kids on this sailboat and it's a kind of a thriller and kind of a mystery. And I feel like it's one of the best books I've ever read about parenting even though it's a novel, and I tore through it but it's very breathless and like terrifying so...KJ Dell'Antonia 48:10 Well that has its place at the moment, too. Because then you forget where you are. Catherine Newman 48:15 I was really caught up in it and it's also just incredibly lyrical. Like some of the sentences I would read twice just because it was so gorgeous. So I'm recommending that as a total escape-like thriller.Jess Lahey 48:54 I went yesterday, I have to say I went yesterday to pick up a book from the Vermont Bookshop in Middlebury, Vermont, and there was no one at the shop but they had this beautiful cart outside the door with everyone's orders labeled and covered with some plastic and it was just the most delightful way to get out and and go 'shopping' even though I couldn't shop it worked really nicely. Booksellers are working so hard to make that work. Catherine, thank you for being so patient with us while we worked out the details of how we were going to have you on the show. It shouldn't have taken us this long, but we're very happy that you were patient with us.Catherine Newman 49:48 Oh my gosh, my pleasure. Talking to you is a highlight of my week and life.Jess Lahey 49:55 Well, and I'm going to recommend that people go ahead and preorder How to Be a Person...KJ Dell'Antonia 50:03 They won't have to preorder it will be out by the time this is out.Jess Lahey 50:07 It's just such a delightful book. It's such a fun read, I'm going to be giving it as like part of a baby gift. I'm going to have copies around to give to people constantly. I have a neighbor I'm giving it to as a gift. So I'm so excited to have just multiple copies around the house.Catherine Newman 50:26 You guys are so supportive I could cry. Jess Lahey 50:33 Oh Catherine, where can people find you if they want to find out more about your higgledy piggledy career?Catherine Newman 51:06 CatherineNewman writer.com I think.Jess Lahey 51:44 Until next week, everyone, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

"When I was a boy, and j would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.'" - Fred RogersDid you know that in United States alone, there are about 1500 fires in people's homes!On this episode, Ashdin talks about how helpers are always something to be grateful for, and how it's important to look for them. Tune in to find out more.You can follow Ashdin Doctor on Instagram @ashdindoc (https://www.instagram.com/ashdindoc/?hl=en)Check out Ashdin's website- Awesome180 (http://awesome180.com/)Youtube Channel- The Habit Coach - Awesome180 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZQpxuIf7moTOU8kCAu0Zfg)You can listen to this show and other awesome shows on the IVM Podcasts app on Android: https://ivm.today/android or iOS: https://ivm.today/ios, or any other podcast app.

Singer-songwriter Jason Mraz has just released "Look for the Good," the title track off his upcoming album. Host Jeremy Hobson speaks to Mraz. Also, to avoid going out in public, things like banking and grocery shopping can be done online. But older people don't always embrace this kind of new technology easily. MIT AgeLab Director Joseph Coughlin explains why this is and how seniors can learn to use technology better.

'Look at us, one race, existing together in this new space; a new space between stillness, uncertainty, patience and our imagination; a new space where the possibilities are infinite. It's now our great opportunity to create the world we want see. It's now our great opportunity to look after, honor and support each other. It is now our great opportunity to celebrate and honor the divine feminine. When I speak of the divine feminine, what I'm referring to is a state of being, more than a “sex” or “gender”. It's a quality that bypasses the intellect. I refer to feminine voice as an energy which is soft, yielding, nurturing and nourishing. So let's step outside of our need for knowing and embrace this new space. Let us embrace the essence of less is more and slow is best. Embrace your feminine voice. The voice of harmony, the voice of creation. What the world needs now is Love. Sweet Love. Also, feel free to enjoy this four hour live set coupled best with four hours of responsible Love making.' - DJFM https://www.instagram.com/djfm.la/ Learn more about what it means to be a Love Extremist at http://www.extremist.love

Stories in this episode: Crishelle and her friends' trip through Europe is threatened by a traveler's worst nightmare until a group of Swiss sisters steps up to help; When Elisha’s newborn is hospitalized, prayers from a local Baptist church help her to keep going; After moving to the US to fulfill her dream of attending BYU, Michelle receives unexpected help in her search for a place to live; Lillie gets a second chance at a life-long goal thanks to a complete stranger. SHOW NOTES: Today's episode was sponsored by TOFW.   To see pictures, and find links to things mentioned in this episode, go here. Special thanks to Davi Johnson. TRANSCRIPT: KaRyn Lay: Welcome to This Is the Gospel, an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. If you spend any amount of time reading, watching or listening to the news, you may like me, find yourself wondering, "Where is the good in this world?" I don't think that it is overstating things to say that the way that we consume media has changed and sometimes it can feel like all we're getting is the bad news. Well, a few years ago, in response to some particularly difficult or traumatic time, there was this meme that started to make the rounds on social media. Maybe you'll remember it. It had this picture of Mr. Rogers from "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood," looking as kind and as thoughtful as he ever had. And it said, "When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers, you will always find people who are helping.'" While this quote was specific to helping our children process traumatic events in the news, and was meant to be part of a larger conversation, I was moved by the reminder that in times of darkness, we can find the light if we open our eyes to see it. The helpers. Look for the helpers. Well, today we have four short and sweet stories about those moments when the helpers show up. Moments when our collective kindness trumps our fear or discomfort and offers us opportunities to show God's love to someone we might not know. Our first story comes from Chrishelle. You may remember Chrishelle from one of our earlier episodes, she has such a unique name. It was called "The Strength to Forgive." And in that episode, she shared a lovely story about the power of forgiveness to heal us. Well, this time she has a story about a different kind of spiritual adventure. One where she had to accept the kindness of strangers when she was traveling in a foreign land. Here's Crishelle: Crishelle: After I graduated from college, I had an opportunity to join two of my friends that I had worked with through college, to go to Europe. And we were going to be gone for a whole month. And what was really awesome about this trip is we were going to travel all through Europe and see all of these amazing things that we'd all wanted to see. But we were also going to get to do some work with the refugees. My friend's sister worked for a refugee organization in Greece, and we had the opportunity to take supplies over to them and to spend some time just meeting some of the families that they'd been working with. It was so humbling to meet these families that had lost everything and to sit with them as they told us about their story and as they told us about their lives in Greece. And they told us how they were waiting to hear if they could join family and loved ones in other parts of Europe and throughout the world. It was just really a beautiful experience, so humbling and truly wonderful. Probably the highlight of the trip. Because we were taking these supplies over, it worked best to rent a car and to take our luggage around that way. That way we weren't checking bags all the time. And so we traveled through Europe in a car and it was such an adventure. We left Greece and went to Italy. And we decided to spend three days in Rome seeing everything we possibly could and it was so fun. We ate tons of gelato, we saw everything we possibly could. And our last day in Rome, we packed up our stuff to leave our hostel. And I had this thought while we were packing up, "Maybe we should leave our stuff at the hostel." And then I was like, No, that's silly. That will take so much time to come back. Like, let's just pack our stuff up. We'll go to the Vatican will be super smart about where we park, we'll make sure that it's not a sketchy area and it will be fine. Everything will be fine. And so we packed up all our stuff in our car and we drove to the Vatican and we drove around the Vatican a couple of times just to find the safest parking spot. And we did, we found one right next to the Vatican police and the Italian military were across the street. And while we were parking couple policemen drove by. And maybe that should have been a sign, but we took it as like, you know, heaven-sent, we're like "Oh, we'll totally be good. Everything will be wonderful. Let's run in and toward the Vatican." And we went and saw the Sistine Chapel, which was as beautiful as I imagined and St. Peter's Basilica. I am still blown away as I remember how big and grand that cathedral is. We were feeling a little anxious so we quickly left after our tour was over and we came back to our car and as we turned the corner, something felt off. We like hesitantly approached our car and as we did, we noticed that one of the little windows had been broken. Everything was gone. Everything. They'd taken all of our luggage, and all we had left was what we were carrying. That meant that one of my friends lost her passport. We lost laptops, I lost my retainer, which is so silly, but that was the worst thing ever because it's just gonna be sitting in a dumpster somewhere like that doesn't even matter to anyone. And it was so heartbreaking. In the moment, we lost everything. And we had no friends in this area, we had no one to reach out to, we couldn't just like call our parents. It was earth-shattering. It was one of those moments where like, please tell me that this is a joke. Unfortunately, it wasn't. We were so grateful that it wasn't like our lives or anything worse than that, but this was pretty tragic for us. We still had two and a half weeks of this trip. And we now just have what we're carrying. And so we prayed, we went and asked the Vatican police and they told us, "No, we don't help with those kinds of things." We went and asked the military guys across the street and they're like, "No, we don't speak English." And we found the police station and they weren't the most helpful or kind. And it was really hard. And we felt so lost and we felt so alone. Being robbed, I didn't think that it would be such a violating experience, but I felt so violated. I felt so vulnerable because these things that I had brought in order to take care of myself were now gone. We regrouped, we tried to go to the embassy, we weren't able to get to the embassy that day. And then we decided you know what, the most important thing for us to do right now is to go get some gelato, and to buy some toothpaste, and three toothbrushes and to leave Rome. We need to just leave Rome and we'll figure everything else out tomorrow. And so we did that. We went and got our gelato, and we found a pharmacy that thankfully somehow had the contacts that my friend needed. It was such a miracle, just the exact right prescription for her. And we left, we left Rome behind us. We traveled up to northern Italy and spent a couple of days up there. And it was Baptism by fire in minimalism. We went from having everything we possibly needed to, we were washing our clothes every night. It was such an adventure. Just that time it was just so funny, it was like the joke is always on us because we lost everything and it's okay, we were making it work. We eventually left Italy and we went up to Switzerland and we were getting to Switzerland on a Sunday. We had been planning on camping in Switzerland, but all of our stuff had been stolen, so that plan was out the window. We thankfully were able to make some arrangements for sleeping. Mostly, we were just determined to continue on and to have a good time. We went to a farmer's market and got little dresses and skirts super cheap. And I'm sure we looked like bums and stuck out like sore thumbs. And we went to church the next day. After sacrament, the Relief Society president came up to us and she said, "Are you the girls that got robbed?" And we were like, "Yeah, we did. We are those girls." We'd reported it and told her story on social media, mostly in like joking terms of we got robbed and Joke's on us, but we're still having the best time. As the Relief Society president explained, she had heard about us. She'd heard that we were coming and that we were planning on coming to church. And she had asked all of the women in her ward of early society to bring their extra clothes that they're getting rid of, and to bring anything that three girls traveling through Europe that didn't have anything might need. And she took us into this room and there were piles of clothes, and a suitcase and shoes and socks. Switzerland was a bit chillier than everywhere else we'd been. And we didn't have our jackets and coats like we'd packed. And she said, "This is for you girls, take what you need." It was really difficult to receive it. Our first reaction was to be like, "No, we don't need this." Somewhere in my head, and looking back, it was probably the spirit reminded me that often the greatest gift we can give to people is to receive the help that they're offering. And I just looked her in the eyes and I said, "Thank you." And it was so humbling. And in that moment, I also thought of the refugees that we had seen and I remembered how difficult it was for them to receive the help that they so desperately needed. And in no way were we refugees, in no way were we in the same situation as those refugees, but I really felt for them. Because I was now in this position where I didn't have very much, and people were offering to give me things and to give me the things that I needed in order to continue on in my journey, and it was difficult to receive it. And I feel like that is so much of what the gospel is about. The gospel of Jesus Christ, we all stand in need. We all stand in need so desperately of our Savior and sometimes it's so hard to receive that help. We are all strangers, I was a stranger and they took me in. We are all strangers, and he takes us in and that is what the gospel is about. KaRyn Lay: That was Crishelle. I've been trying all week to find a way to talk about the nuances of our theme, "The Kindness of Strangers." And I think I just realized that Chrishelle's story does it for me. The reality is that there are strangers on both sides of each of these stories. Yes, it was a group of strangers in Switzerland who were kind to these weary travelers. But those weary travelers were also strangers to the women of that Relief Society. How easy it might have been for them to view them and their struggles as none of their business. I mean, they were definitely foreigners and absolutely unknown to the women who helped them. But those Swiss sisters took their call as disciples seriously, and chose instead to see Chrishelle and her friends as sisters, and what a difference that made to all of the people in this story. That idea of a stranger is, in some ways, a construct that we can use to separate and divide us. But the gospel of Jesus Christ asks us to question that construct, to redefine the word "stranger," where possible, and to see one another with new eyes. Our next story comes from Elisha who saw firsthand the power of the kindness of strangers when her family needed it most. Here's Elisha. Elisha: I've always known that God doesn't leave us alone in our time of need, but I really came to know this several years ago. Our son Cooper was born on November 8, 2007. When he was about three weeks old, we took him to church to be blessed. We had family in town, and it was the Sunday that worked for us. And so as we sat down at church, a sister who was sitting behind us, and who was a nurse, mentioned that I really shouldn't be bringing him out during RSV season. I honestly didn't really know what RSV was, didn't know how you could get it. We live in the south and we don't really have harsh winters and so it's just not something that I really knew that much about. And I thought she was well-meaning, but honestly, I just didn't think too much about it. And so I turned back around and we had the beautiful baby blessing and I packed up things and we all went home right after sacrament meeting to avoid him coming into contact with anyone who's sick. A really dear sister in our ward took the time to write down the blessing on paper and give it to me, which was really a special thing. I'd never had a written copy of any of our baby blessings before. And I read through it and I loved some of the words that were on it. One of the things in the blessing said, "We bless you with health and strength necessary to fulfill your role and your mission, and that his spirit might warm the lives of those that he will come in contact with." Of course, I thought this was a really neat blessing and I set the paper aside and kind of went on with my week. Just a couple of days later, I noticed in the evening that Cooper's breathing seemed kind of labored. We called her pediatrician who assured us that everything was probably fine and that if we were still concerned in the morning, we could bring him in. And so as a new mother, I was in and out of his bedroom for several hours and I couldn't stop the worry. And at one point, it became evident to me that he was really not doing okay. And I prayed because I didn't know what to do. And in that moment, I heard that voice say, "This is RSV. He needs to get to the hospital." So I went into our bedroom and I woke my husband up and I called my parents to come and stay with our other children. And we went straight to the hospital. And when we got there, the hospital staff that was attending to our son said that he probably would not have survived much longer had we not gotten him in to be seen. His pulse oxygen level was really low and his breathing was extremely distressed. One of the ER nurses asked my husband and I how long it had been since we'd eaten last and at this point, it was probably five o'clock in the morning and we both were, you know, saying, "Of course, we haven't eaten anything overnight." And so she disappeared for a moment and then she came back with a styrofoam container from the cafeteria with a biscuit and eggs and bacon and just all the things to make a breakfast sandwich. And we were so touched by the kindness that she would go and do this for us. It did turn out that our son was very sick, and he was in the hospital and eventually moved into the ICU. And it was a really trying time in our lives. The words to that blessing came back to me and I just kept thinking about what a blessing it was that not only did he have that blessing, but that it had been typed out for me and that I could take some comfort in the fact that he would be in good health at some point. Throughout that time, we had so many kindnesses from others. One of our nurses saw that I hadn't left the room in quite a long time and came and said, "I will sit with him. Please, go take a moment for yourself. Go take a shower, go downstairs, go walk around outside." And she ensured that I would actually leave that hospital room for a few minutes from time to time. We also, at the time, had our two older children in a little Baptist preschool near our home, which we loved. And we love the people, they were so kind. But one morning, my husband was taking our two older kids to preschool to drop them off and then to come and be with me at the hospital. And as he pulled into the carpool line, a couple of the ladies came out and opened the door and said, "Let us take your kids right now, even though it's early, it's 15 or 20 minutes early. We will take them so you can get on your way and be with your wife." And we were so touched. And then they mentioned that in their prayer circle, they'd been praying for us all week. Another sister brought a bag of healthy snacks and some things to read and do to the hospital and dropped them off and it really touched us. We really felt the love of those around us working to do his work for us. I can't think back on that experience without becoming tearful and realizing how much we were loved and cared for by those around us, and how much our every need that I hadn't even had a chance to express, was met by those around us. I'm not a person who likes to ask for help and I just found that I really never even needed to because people picked up on things that we needed, and they did them for us without us even asking. Today, Cooper is an 11-year-old and he just received the Aaronic Priesthood. Several weeks ago, I was sitting in sacrament meeting and I watched as he was passing the sacrament, and I was overcome with emotion and the realization that he has been completely healed. He did live a lot of years with some episodes that happened with flaring up and breathing issues, but he has outgrown that. And he plays basketball and he swims and he's an athletic kid, and he does bring light into everyone's life. And it just makes me realize how much God is in the details of our lives. He knows what we're going through, He knows who we are, and He's there for us. KaRyn Lay: That was Elisha. I love the image of that Baptist prayer circle praying for her family. Women, and men linked together to use their collective faith to bless someone they barely know, or perhaps didn't know at all. I am positive that God hears the prayers of those close to us who know the ins and outs of our hearts. But I imagine that he finds deep joy in watching his children extend themselves beyond their inner circle, even if it's only in prayer. Our next storyteller, Michelle, shares her difficult first days as a true foreigner in a new land. Here's Michelle. Michelle: So when I was about 12-years-old, I decided that I want to attend BYU. The catch for me was that I lived in Tasmania, Australia. So it was not anywhere close to me, it was across the other side of the world. So after many, many years of planning and saving when I was 19, I left for BYU. And I honestly was just a terrible mess, I was an emotional disaster. It was just really, really overwhelming. And I think part of it was just being away from home for the first time, but also being in a whole new country. I remember before my plane took off, I was just sobbing in my seat. And basically the whole entire plane ride I cried. And this was like 24 hours of flying and traveling. My first night there, I remember I went down to—we were at a hotel—and I went down to a payphone to call my mom with a calling card that I had. And as I was trying to just dial the numbers, my hands were shaking, and I could not get my calling card to work. So I ended up just calling her collect. And I was just sobbing that whole entire phone call, I could not even speak really. It was just being kind of like make noises to her to confirm what she was saying. I stayed with a cousin for a little bit while I was trying to work out what my next steps were. So I didn't have anywhere to live, and I didn't want to live on campus, mainly because I was worried about feeling really old in the dorms. I had learned from other people I had talked to that most people lived off-campus after their freshman year. So I had planned on just finding an apartment off-campus. And so I wanted to get a feel for what they were like, so I'd walk the streets of Provo and I would walk around and I would just stop people that I saw that looked like they lived in a certain place and asked them questions about the complex and if they liked it. I actually went and looked at quite a few different apartments and one of them I remember I walked into the bathroom and it looked like a public restroom. It had little stalls in cubicles and concrete floors. And I was like, "Is this where I'm going to have to live? I don't understand." And then this other one, I stopped at a house and there were some girls that lived in the house. And then they said, "We don't have any room up here, but downstairs, check with them." So I went down, and it was a basement apartment, and there was just this older lady that lived there and honestly, it was very creepy. It was very small, it was like a wire, creaky bed. I remember feeling like, "I have to get out of here." So I had stopped quite a few different people at different places. And I met a girl from Texas, and she was really, really kind to me and she answered all my questions. And then she said, "I'll give you the phone number for the apartment." And I was like, "Oh, I actually don't have a phone so I can't call right now." And she's like, "You don't have a phone?" And so we started talking about that and then she offered to take me to the store to get a phone. And I was sort of amazed that this stranger would just completely offer to take me. She didn't know who I was, I could have been a crazy person for all she knew. She went and grabbed a friend to come with us. And right before we went and got in the car, I tripped and I hurt my toe. And I didn't look down, I sort of just was like, "It's fine, it's just fine." And instead, I could feel my whole foot—my whole shoe was like sticking to my foot and it was warm and I was like, "Oh, no." And they looked down and she's like, "Your foot is bleeding." And I was like, "I know and I didn't want to say anything." And so she got out a water bottle and she washed my foot for me. And then, she didn't just take me to one store and drop me off and just say, "Okay, here you go. Good luck!" She drove me around to three different stores, different phone carriers, and then we went to Walmart and I got different supplies I needed there, and this was a huge chunk of time, this wasn't like 15 minutes of her time. This took a couple of hours probably. She just really went out of her way to help me—someone that was a complete stranger I had never met her before. What's funny is the phone never actually helped me find the apartment that I went and lived in. I found my apartment by walking the streets and talking to someone else. I did eventually find one that way, which is funny to me now. But it definitely, what it did do is I was able to talk to my family. Because previous to this, I'd been using pay phones to call them. And I would go up to campus and I would use my email and I would just email them. So having the phone helped me to be able to communicate with my family, which is something that I really needed in that moment because I was just so homesick and overwhelmed. It really made a difference for me to stop being like okay, I can handle this and then when I call my mom at like, five o'clock, then I'll be able to tell her all these things. And it really, she really helped me to be able to adjust and like, tell me "You can do it, it's going to be okay." And I think without that encouragement, and without that connection to home, I don't know if I would have lasted as long as I did. I ended up staying for a full year in the end. At first it was like, let's just take the first step, I'll stay through the end of the summer. And then I ended up loving it so much, and it all ended up so well, that I ended up staying for the full year. I actually met my husband and then we started dating and we got married the following year. So then I stayed forever. This experience to me always has reminded me of how our Heavenly Father uses other people to answer our prayers, and how, through this complete stranger, my prayers were answered in a way I didn't expect. At the time I was just invested in finding somewhere to live and taking care of that part of my life, I think. And He could see the big picture and see that I needed a little help in maybe other ways also. I think it can be easy when we get busy with our lives to just sort of see needs and just sort of brush them off and be like, "They're going to be fine. It's gonna be fine." She could have very easily said to me, like, "Oh, good luck! I hope that you get everything sorted." Which is what most everyone that I stopped, said to me and there was nothing wrong with that. They were very kind people also, but she went above and beyond. And I think for me, it's always been a reminder that that is important. I should be always looking for chances that I can to go above and beyond and help those and serve those willingly, to hopefully help them in the same way that I was helped. KaRyn Lay:That was Michelle. My husband Justin has always loved this quote from Spencer W. Kimball, "God does notice us, and he watches over us. But it is usually through another person that he meets our needs." We have it on a huge magnet on our refrigerator. And I've often thought about how interesting it is, that quote means different things to me at different times in my life. Sometimes I read it, and it reminds me to look. To see God and the kindness of others. And sometimes when I read it, it reminds me to do. To go and to be the hands of God for others. And I think Michelle's story is a perfect example of the wisdom of that duality. It's really okay for that quote to mean different things to me at different points in my life. Sometimes it really is all we can do to notice God and the goodness of others. But, when the Spirit speaks to us to move, to do, to act, we can be ready and willing. Our final story today comes from Lillie. Lillie and her family are currently living in Paraguay, so the quality of the sound is a little bit different than all the other stories in this week's episode. It's a great story about that small moment when somebody, a total stranger, stood up for her in a time when it really mattered. Lillie: I think I always wanted to be a singer, kind of secretly. But I kind of wanted it to be like somebody would discover me or something and just think I was so great. But I didn't like to put myself out there. Anyway, so I actually auditioned for all the choirs at Ricks College, which is now BYU Idaho. And it turns out, in our church culture, everyone sings. They grow up singing you know, in primary everyone sings and it's very competitive to get into the choirs at Ricks at that time. So anyway, I auditioned for all of them, I did not get into any of them. Except I did get into the girl's chorus which has about 200 girls in it. I mean it's huge. I mean it's just like an auditorium filled with girls. And I didn't know anyone in there, but I was happy at least that I got to sing and that I got be in a choir. And our choir Professor chose a song for our choir to sing and I just loved it, I loved the song right away and it had about four small solo parts in the song. And the teacher announced that there would be tryouts the next week or so and we just needed to sign up and go to his office to audition. So you know, I got that feeling in my stomach like, "I think I want to do that. I think I want to audition for that." So I did it, I signed up, and I went to go audition for one of the solos. And I was pretty nervous but I went in and I don't know how I somehow got the part and was super excited. I felt, you know, validated like "See I am a good singer." I felt like that was kind of proving it to me. We get into class and this song comes up in the rehearsal. So I knew, "Okay, I'm gonna sing my solo in front of all these girls and probably half of them tried out for the song." You know, and I started to feel nervous like they were going to judge me if I wasn't good enough and then I felt nervous that may be that I would mess up. I was the third soloist during the song. We started singing the song, the other girls did great. Maybe that made me nervous hearing how good they were, you know. It came to my turn, I start singing and I knew right away that it wasn't that great. It didn't come out very well. I think I was trying to be loud you know in this room full of girls, I tried to maybe project, I didn't have the support I needed and it was terrible. And I was super embarrassed and the teacher says, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's not good. That's not good. Let's try it again." So I had to do my part again. And when I did it again, it was no better, it was really bad. And he says, "That's not going to work at all. Can somebody else..." You know, he was kind of looking for someone else to do the part right there in front of everyone. It was super awkward, all the girls were sitting there and maybe some of them were like, "Yes, maybe I'll get the solo because she couldn't do it. And it also went through my head how much I'm sure all these girls are thinking, "Yeah, I could do a lot better. Why did she get the solo? Right? I just sat there, I was so embarrassed. And it's like all the negative self-talk's coming out. You know? "You really aren't that great. You really aren't a singer. What are you thinking?" I just felt—I actually was nervous that I was going to start crying in front of all these girls and like kind of make a scene so I was trying to, you know, just really really quiet, just really kind of holding it in. I wanted to leave and it came through my head like, "I'm not gonna audition for stuff anymore. This is so humiliating. Just as I was in the depths of my negative self talk, out of nowhere, this girl says, "Give her a chance! She can do it, she can do it. Give her a chance, she's got this." The truth is, at that point, I didn't even think—I didn't believe in myself. But this random girl who did not know me, she was not like my friend sticking up with for me, she had no idea if I could actually do it. She stood up for me and he listened to her. And I got to keep the solo. I don't even know her name, I don't think we ever spoke. But because she believed in me, I was able to get another chance. And I worked hard on that solo. After I did the solo, I specifically remember, it felt really good. It was just this honest, like, I'm just going to do my best. And I sang the solo there in that cool concert hall that had awesome acoustics there at Ricks. And I had a couple of people come up to me and say, "You have a very unique voice. I really enjoyed that." So I think that I had something to give though it wasn't like, I'm not the best, but I had my unique thing to give. I've taught in the primary for many years off and on and I use this story a lot, mainly cause stories help the kids listen. But, I use this story a lot to help them think about the kind of person that they want to be in different social situations when we see someone that is in a vulnerable place, or who maybe needs a friend, needs someone to stick up for them when nobody else well. I always say, "Be like this girl. She went to bat for me and she did not have to, she didn't even know me." That's literally what the Savior does for each one of us. He lets us keep trying. He believes in us and knows that we have the potential to be better and to improve and He really doesn't give up. You know, He does know us though, and that's the only difference is that He does know us but He sticks up for all of us, right? He knows that we can do it and He goes to bat for us. KaRyn Lay: That was Lillie. I think her question to those primary children after she shares that story is something I'm going to be thinking about for a long time to come. What kind of person do I want to be? I think most of us, as willing disciples of the Savior, would say that we want to be the kind of person He was. An advocate, a healer, a friend and light to the stranger, the foreigner, the marginalized, the bullied. But. how? How do we find the motivation, the courage and, frankly, the time. I recently heard a wise woman suggest that if we feel overwhelmed by the idea of all that's wrong in the world and our own inability to fix everything, one place to start is to simply show up. To put our bodies in places where they can represent our support of others and tangible numbers. We don't have to know exactly what to do or even how to do it. But if we show up, then the Lord can tutor us on what comes next. It reminded me of a part of Sister Linda K. Burton's talk from the 2016 General Conference. When the "I Was a Stranger" initiative was announced. She shared the story of those, including the women, who stayed behind while the men went to rescue the suffering members of the handcart companies. Not only did they immediately donate all their extra petticoats, socks and warm things to the effort, but as the rescue teams got closer to the valley, they gathered in the tabernacle to prepare to receive the sick, the needy, the stranger. President Brigham Young exhorted those gathered to receive them as your own children and to have the same feelings for them. I'm positive, I'm positive that there were some who were nervous about how to proceed, just like you or me. Could they handle the hard things they were about to see and hear from those suffering people? And maybe they were uncomfortable about not knowing the right thing to say or the right thing to do. But they showed up anyway. And in the end, sister Lucy Smith said, "We did all we could to comfort the needy, and we did not cease our exertion till all were made comfortable. I never took more satisfaction, and I might say pleasure, in any labor I've ever performed in my life. Such unanimity of feeling prevailed, what's next for willing hands to do?" Whether the strangers we are meant to help or in other countries, in the hallways at our school, across the street, in our neighborhoods, or sitting next to us in a women's choir. Sister Burton promised us that "We can be assured of Heavenly Father's help as we get down on our knees and ask for divine guidance to bless his children," I hope this week as we think about our own stories of kindnesses given and kindnesses received, of those moments when maybe we were the stranger. That we'll all be just a little more attuned to see and be the helpers in whatever story comes next for us. That's it for this episode of "This Is the Gospel." Thanks for joining us today. And thank you to Chrishelle, Elisha, Michelle, and Lillie for sharing their stories and their faith. We'll have the transcript of this episode and pictures of our storytellers, as well as a link to Sister Burton's talk, in our show notes at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel. Truly, if you haven't read that talk in a while, it gave me all the feels again as I revisited it, and I know it will for you too. All of our stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a great story about your experience living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, well, we want to hear it. We're still accepting submissions to our pitch line. Leave us a short three-minute story pitch at 515-519-6179. You can also find out what themes we're working on to help focus your pitch by following us on Instagram and Facebook @thisisthegospel_podcast. And don't forget to tell us all about your experience with this podcast. Take the time to leave us a review on the Apple podcast app, or on the Bookshelf PLUS+ app from Desert Book. We love to hear your thoughts about certain episodes and about the show as a whole. This episode was produced by Sarah Blake with story producing and editing by Davey Johnson, Danielle Wagner, Katie Lambert and me, KaRyn Lay. It was scored, mixed and mastered by Mix At Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Have a great week.