Podcasts about sometimes i'll

Welcome! Craig’s walking you through a deep dive of the Pros and Cons of Online Collaboration Tools for Businesses and the Security implications for Businesses who have Regulatory Requirements.  For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Read More: Twitter wants to know if you meant to share that article DHS Warns on New Exploit of Windows 10 Vulnerability FBI Says Sudden Increase in Mobile Banking Is Heightening Risks For Users What COVID-19 Teaches Us About Social Engineering UPnP flaw exposes millions of network devices to attacks over the Internet --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: We're going to finish up our discussion about Microsoft teams. What are some of the things you might want to use it for? What is this? How was it different from Zoom and everything else on the market? So let's get going. [00:00:21] Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for being with us today. I really appreciate all your comments to me M E at Craig Peterson dot com. A lot of people just respond to my weekly show notes. You get those by signing up for my email list to find out what's going on, what you should be doing, what free trainings we have, what paid courses there are. [00:00:46]We are coming out with a free again, free, free, free. I'm trying to help out here. It really is for you. Okay. A free, special report about all of these apps we're talking about today. So Karen's been working really hard on that with me, and we hope to have it out either this week or maybe the week after. [00:01:09] And it's going to be. Pretty detailed about some of the pros and cons when you should be using it, what policies should you have in place for your employees when it comes to these collaboration apps? So I think it's very important topic, you know, so many of us just knee jerk our way into this with the COVID-19 thing, and we needed something now, please, anything. [00:01:36] And we jerked into Zoom. Most of us, some of us started using Slack. All of these things are, are up in usage. In fact, WebEx had so many people applying for it because it's really the only one. If you're a business that you should be using. That they had to cut back. They were giving it away for free for like two or three months. [00:01:58]Even though they have a huge worldwide infrastructure, they still had some problems with the onboarding, getting everybody set up and ready. So there may or may not be free WebEx stuff going on right now. They're supposed to go. Maybe it was through the end of June until the end of July. I'm not sure what it is right now, but anyway, We're talking about Microsoft teams right now. [00:02:21] Okay. so as I mentioned at the very end with Microsoft teams, you need to integrate your Skype went and we already know Skype is not. Considered to be overly secure. It was actually a little more security before Microsoft bought it. And then Microsoft changed its entire architecture to one where it goes through Microsoft servers. [00:02:45] And that way, if you're in China, Microsoft can sensor you. Or if the law enforcement agencies in the US want to hear what you're saying, Microsoft can provide it to them and they couldn't do it before. So yeah. A little bit of resentment there. You probably noticed in my voice, right, Danielle, back to Microsoft here. [00:03:07] The second big thing is it has this integration that a lot of people are looking for with your business apps. So you can use word Excel, PowerPoint, one-note planners, share 0.1 drive. All integrated with Microsoft teams. And that is a huge win because all of that stuff is right there. Now the integration isn't as clean or as neat or as easy as maybe it should be. [00:03:36] But it is there and it will get better over time. You can still use all of those tools, word, Excel, PowerPoint, et cetera, et cetera, with pretty much any of these apps. They're all designed to be integrated to varying degrees, but Microsoft ultimately will win this battle. Because they own the source code, right. [00:03:58] They own the programs. They're going to take care of themselves first. And they've been sued about that before. So no, no news there. Next point, customized workspace, and every team is different. So Microsoft teams is customizable so that you can integrate it with third-party apps, as well as Microsoft apps. [00:04:21] You know, that's really the trend right now. I see that across all of the industries, Cisco has done an interesting thing, and that is a couple of years ago. They decided to do a policy called API first. Now Microsoft is not doing this, but the whole idea behind API first is. That I'm like Microsoft that tries to play everything close to the chest and give itself advantages over all of its competitors. [00:04:49] Right. And we've seen suits on that forever, like integrating internet Explorer, right into the kernels, supposedly. And so that you could not use other browsers. You always had to have a ye initially, and then they allowed other browsers, but you still had to have I E, and then the courts ruled against them yet again. [00:05:09] And so unlike Microsoft's approach to try and lock you in, Cisco has decided that they want to make. All of the Cisco software uses the same interfaces that third-party vendors have to use. And that is phenomenal when it comes to integration. So if you want to use WebEx or WebEx teams or any component of any of the Cisco stuff, including their firewalls and the routers, et cetera, et cetera, you can. [00:05:41] They've got API APIs for everything. Cause that's the only way they can access their own software. It says absolutely phenomenal. So Microsoft teams do have some third party integration available on it, which can be handy. You also get real-time communications, which as I mentioned can be a problem. [00:06:02] This isn't just true with Microsoft. This is true for WebEx teams and Slack and everything else out there. But it's real-time. So a smart person's going to do something different with email excuse me. something caught in my throat, but, email, you typically try and delay, right? I try and read my email once a day and that's it. [00:06:29] And if someone really needs to get ahold of me, but they probably know how to really get ahold of me. Right. So I'm not getting interrupted. I can work on the stuff I need to get to work on. No, I'm putting his stuff. Together for my lives for my webinars, for my radio show for everything else. And if I get interrupted, particularly if I'm doing some programming work, it can cost me hours of time. [00:06:56] So I put off email and only go through it maybe once a day. Sometimes I'll go two or three days without really paying attention to my email. So I apologize to you. If you send me an email and you're hoping for a quick answer, I don't always get back to you very quickly. Right. I have other people in my team that that's what it's for. [00:07:15] So when we're talking about communicating in real-time with some of these collaboration apps, It's a double edge sword. So instead of having emails, bouncing back and forth, which might take hours and hours, right? Because someone says something and half an hour later, another person reads it and responds. [00:07:36] Now, then that first person an hour later read to them a response, you can just have it go over very quickly. It's phenomenal for productivity. When you need quick productivity, the high priority initiatives that you have can really move a lot faster because it's not an email. It's not getting a push back while you were waiting. [00:07:57] This is really instant messaging. Think of it like texting, right? So everybody can be on the same page with these team's apps you can see who has seen your messages and people can respond to them. They can start a thread. normally how does it work? You're well, you might send an email to everybody. Giving them an update, right? [00:08:18]they reply to you, but maybe not to everybody that happens all of the time. I know people that I, you know, I expect them to copy all because I, you know, I've got two or three people on it that are need to know, and they don't, they just reply directly to me. with these types of teams, apps, everybody's on the same page. [00:08:39] Everybody can see everything. This conversation with email can split into a bunch of different conversations with ideas, being directed at one person when it really should be a group discussion. So keep that in mind as well. When you're considering some of these team's applications, everybody knows what's going on, what the status is, and productivity. [00:09:04] Just keeps flowing. You're listening to Craig Peter's son. I appreciate your being with me today. And of course, you can get me online as well. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you sign up to my email list. Kirk peterson.com/subscribe. And that gets you an email every week. Oftentimes it's Saturday mornings lately. [00:09:27] It's been more like Mondays, you know, summertime COVID-19 every excuse in the book, right. As to why it's been a little bit more delayed, but you know, expected by Monday. And it's got my summary for the week. It's got links to my podcast and also info about classes and courses and lives when they happen. [00:09:46] And then of course, here on the air, take care of everybody. We'll be right back, stick around. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Sometimes I'll sit here and stare at the screen for what feels like hours just trying to figure out how to word a single sentence so that it doesn't seem like a child wrote it. It usually doesn't end well. Today, I'm trying to figure out a sophisticated way of saying "Making something for a really long time is actually really hard" but the words aren't coming to me. They're in my brain somewhere, but I can't find them...must be because my vacation is almost over. Anyway. You might've noticed we just released an episode last week (which was great, btw. Check it out if you haven't already) and we have another episode for you this week. No, we're not going back to the old weekly schedule. But we figured since this episode and last week's were on the shorter side, we'd just say screw it and make 3 episodes this month. Why not? This week, we have the return of Jason Ginsburg! You might recognize the name from the in 2019 or you might just know him as the creator of the amazing @FakeThemePark. We heard through the grapevine that the FakeThemePark is celebrating its 10 year anniversary next month so Jason came back on to tell us all about the festivities he has planned to mark the occasion! If you're not already following the park, be sure to do so on both and . It's pretty much the gold standard for satire (especially if you have theme park experience) and even after 10 years Jason is showing no signs of slowing down. Enjoy! -Jr.

On the twenty-sixth installment of The Link Up with Latesha, our incredible host Latesha Byrd, founder of Byrd Career Consulting, offers some helpful advice on how to reduce your anxiety when it comes to interviewing. She talks about the importance of practicing and preparing for an interview beforehand and breaks down the differences between both processes. Check out the show notes to read her piece on Money about how to crush your next virtual job interview!Interested in Latesha's Career Chasers Members Club? Click here for all the information. Membership will be reopening very soon, so join the waiting list!Check out Latesha's Money article on how to ace your next virtual interview.Stop by LateshaByrd.com! Click here to check out Latesha's shop, and don't forget the 60% discount code GETTHECOINS.Find out more about Latesha on the BCC website or connect with her through LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, and FB.Check out Latesha's YouTube channel.Connect with Byrd Career Consulting via LinkedIn, IG, Twitter, and FB.Find out how the CDC suggests you wash your hands by clicking here.Help food banks respond to COVID-19. Learn more at FeedingAmerica.org.Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTLatesha: Hey, hey. Welcome to another episode of The Link Up with Latesha. It is Saturday. I hope that it is sunny where you are and you are enjoying this warm weather. Please get out and enjoy the sun. Get you some Vitamin D. We spend 99.9% of our times up in the house, so I am planning to get out this weekend and buy some new plants, and you know what? I'm going to figure out a way to actually make grocery shopping exciting, okay? I don't know what that's going to be yet, so if you have any ideas let me know, let me know. I want to have a moment of honesty, transparency, with you all. Yesterday I had a deep, ugly cry. Have y'all ever had just a really ugly cry that was necessary? I was feeling overwhelmed, and I made a to-do list--and I do that a lot. If I ever feel overwhelmed with everything in my head, 'cause sometimes a bunch of thoughts get all jumbled and conflicting in my brain and so I have to write it out in my journal or on my whiteboard, and I was overwhelmed because I had so much to do, and I said, "You know what? Make a list, girl. That's what you always do." So I made a list, and I was reading through my list, and then Closer came on my Pandora station, you know, the "Closer to my dreams," that song, and y'all, I just started crying. [laughs] I just started crying because I was looking at the things that I had to do, and it was so impactful and rewarding. The work that I do every day as a coach, as a career coach, as a business coach, you know, as someone that really speaks and focuses on career empowerment, the work that I do is so necessary and vital to so many people, and I just had to take a second to say, "You know what? I am so thankful that these are my worries," you know? Reaching out to a coaching client, writing an article that's due, you know? Pitching myself for, you know, a committee to give back to the community. Recording this podcast episode. Like, these were the types of things that I was worried about just getting done, and I just had a moment of relief, and I feel that I--it's surreal to me, it is. I never thought that, you know, at this young age I would be where I am in life when growing up our worries was about money, you know, and paying the bills, and making, you know--I don't know how much my mother made as a bus driver, but making that money stretch month to month, and I carried a lot of that emotional weight with me into my adulthood, and so I just had a realization yesterday that "You know what? You don't have that worry anymore, and what you're doing is important, and you need to keep going." I remember the little girl that thought "Man, adulthood sucks," you know? [laughs] And I love my mother. I'm thankful for how hard she worked to raise me, but I am just overwhelmed with gratitude, that I get to wake up and do the work that I love every single day. It is not something that I take for granted, ever, and, you know, I am inspired by all of you listening to this podcast and to the Living Corporate team for allowing me to be a voice here. So if you have not, during this quarantine, it's a great time to get still and to think about the things that you are proud of, you know? We all I'm sure have things that we still want to achieve and milestones that we want to hit, but just know that your journey is your journey, and if things don't make sense right now, I promise that you they will. The struggles, the failures, the heartaches, the nos, the decline emails with these job applications, just know that it is a part of your journey, your testimony, your story, and you're going to change lives one day--if you have not already. You may already be changing lives and don't even realize it. So thank you for letting me share that. Again, just this quarantine has allowed me to be more introspective and to really think about what is important to me, and this work that I do is extremely important and necessary. So with that being said--whoo, okay, y'all. I'm trying not to cry. [laughs] But what we're talking about today is interviewing, but not just interviewing. Interviewing with a twist. For my job seekers out there, for my job hunters out there, whatever you may call yourself. I'm noticing that a lot of us get anxiety, especially when it comes to interviewing. Interviewing... I'll be honest. It is painful, right? [laughs] I have had some terrible interviews in my day, no lie, but now I get to coach people all the time on how to have great and wonderful interviews. I want to be honest with you all though. I have seen some of the most talented, the most experienced people not get jobs, not because, you know, they don't meet the qualifications, but because their anxiety takes over and they kill the interview, and I don't mean kill in a good way, okay? So I want to give you all some advice on how to reduce your anxiety when it comes to interviewing. This is important because I know that this is something we all have struggled with before. Interviewing does get easier over time though. I guarantee you that. I want to promise you that. It will get easier over time. It's one of those things that takes preparation, a whole lot of preparation, and practice. I read an article online the other day that said we should be spending four hours preparing for an interview. I know that seems like a lot, y'all, but you gotta think of it like this is your one shot and that's it. There's a show that I binge, and I really enjoy it actually, and it was a show on Netflix with T.I. and Cardi B and Chance. You know, that show where D. Smoke--D. Smoke is a really dope rapper, and he won this competition. It was a rap competition. It's kind of like an American Idol, you know, but specifically for rappers, and so it was really funny watching the first couple of episodes. So if you've watched, like, American Idol, right, it's very similar to that. So I was definitely the type of person to watch American Idol, but I would just watch, like, the first couple of episodes each season just to see the terrible auditions, like, the people that thought they could really sing and they would open their voice and it would--it just sounded awful. Y'all know what I'm talking about. [laughs] This show was dope though 'cause there were some really talented artists, but when it came to them auditioning, they would get into that audition and they would fumble. I'm talking about forgetting lyrics, being off-beat, you know? Some people just were bad, okay? [laughs] Some people were just bad, but I do think that a lot of them were super talented, but they did not perform well because the nerves got to them. So this is what happens when we interview. You can be the most talented. You can be the most ambitious, you know, but if your nerves take over, that could ruin the interview. I do want to give you all some hope here though, because you might be thinking, "Man, I ain't even applying right now because nobody's hiring. And she's talking about an interview." Listen, people reach out to me all of the time on Twitter, on Instagram, even my clients, telling me about interviews that they've landed. Companies are still hiring. I want you all to know that. Do not give up on your job search right now. Don't give up. Companies are still hiring. Companies are still interviewing, and people are out here getting job offers. So if you are in the midst of your job hunt, please continue to keep going. You need to get to that interview, but you need to do two things: you have to practice... you have to practice, [and] you have to prepare. Two totally different things. So let's talk about the difference before I get into some of these tips on reducing anxiety. Preparing for the interview is reading through the job description, seeing what skills they're looking for, seeing what experience these companies are looking for, and making sure you have clear alignment between the work that you've done, the work that you're currently doing, with what they are looking for you to do in that specific role. You have to make sure that you are speaking to your most relevant and transferable experience. So if you are applying to a job in, let's say... hm, let's say you're applying to a job in consulting, and consulting is a lot of, you know, solutions, creating solutions, innovative solutions, being able to identify what your client's problems are, creating these solutions and also delivering these solutions in a way that makes sense to them. So if you have done some type of consulting work in the past, you want to make sure that you have stories you can speak to that specifically relate to how you have helped to solve your client's problem, okay? Does that make sense? You gotta have relevant examples. So, like, let's say that you have an example that is about creating a new communications strategy. If that's not related to that particular role that you are interviewing for, that might not be the best story to go with. So you want to have hero stories. Those hero stories are stories where you have actually came in and you saved the day. Like, there has to be a clear solution at the end of your story that draws back to you creating that specific, tangible, clear result. I have a membership club, Career Chasers Membership Club. I'll link it in the show notes. I will be opening up membership for it soon. We've got a club of over 100 women where each month we have a different theme. This month's theme is on interviewing, and we are talking about the power of, or the importance of, storytelling in an interviewing. I think everyone should really learn the essence of storytelling. It'll make you a great communicator. You want to make sure you have captivating stories that your interviewers walk away with and they remember. You want to be remembered for the right things of course. All right, so storytelling. We're also talking about the importance of executive presence. Someone that has executive presence is Michelle Obama. I loved her Becoming documentary on Netflix. So she is someone that has a lot of executive presence. I mean, when she walks in the room, you just stop and you look because she--you can feel her power, you can feel that just kind of oozing out of her, and so in this membership club, you know, a lot of the ladies were just telling me, like, "I really have a lot of anxiety before I walk into an interview, even if I know I'm a good fit for the job." So I know that this is something that a lot of us deal with, so let's go ahead and hop into these tips. #1: if a recruiter calls you for an interview, give yourself some time. Give yourself some time to prepare. You don't have to drop everything that you're doing and talk to that interviewer right then and there. You don't have to drop what you're doing or reschedule your whole life to talk to the interviewer the next day. My recommendation here is to give yourself 48 hours, 48 hours to prepare, okay? That will give you enough time, hopefully, to go through the job description, pick out your hero stories, research the company, research the interviewers, and, you know, think about the questions that you actually want to ask them. One of my coaching clients during our session a couple weeks ago told me a recruiter called him and said "Hey, I see that you applied for this role. You got a couple minutes to chat?" And he said he was thinking, you know, maybe it'd be--you know, "Sure," she said. "A couple minutes? I'll give her a couple minutes," and he said it turned into a whole 45-minute conversation. It actually turned into an interview, and he said he didn't want to be rude, you know, and he didn't want to lose out on getting this opportunity because she had called him. I don't want you all to put yourself in that type of situation, and so, you know, him and I just kind of talked through "Here's what to do if this happens again." #1: You tell them "Thank you so much for the opportunity. I'm extremely excited. I'm bogged down with work at the moment. You know, I have this really big project that I'm working on." Gas yourself up a little bit when you're talking to a recruiter and ask them, you know, "Is there another time that you and I can connect?" Schedule it in advance. If you can, try not to schedule it for the next day. 9 times out of 10 the interviewer doesn't need to interview you right then and there, and if you're a good candidate for the role, then you showing a commitment to your current job, despite the fact that you are looking for other opportunities, should make a good impression on the recruiter, and it also shows that you are valuable to your organization, because you can't just drop what you're doing and talk to him or her. The work you're doing is too important. So don't think you need to rush into interviewing with these recruiters, because I know how they can be sometimes. I used to be a recruiter, y'all. [laughs] I know how we can be, and I think it's so important to make sure that you are protective of your schedule, especially as we are going through a pandemic. So again, tell 'em "Thank you. I'm working on a really big project at work right now. My team needs me. Can we set up another time to connect so I can dedicate myself fully to our conversation?" Don't think that interviewing sooner or ASAP is going to make you a stronger candidate. What's going to make you a stronger candidate is being prepared. So that's my first tip. #2: Make sure you are reviewing Glassdoor. Glassdoor is life. Glassdoor has company reviews, they have reviews about interviews. If you are not familiar with Glassdoor, that basically is a site where people that have worked at these organizations, where they've interviewed with these companies, are basically going in and submitting their own personal experiences with the company. Whenever I interview coach a client, we always, always always research Glassdoor before an interview coaching session. That is going to give you some real life experience. And I've asked the ladies in my membership club, "Are you all using Glassdoor?" And they said, "Well, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't." So make sure every single time you are using Glassdoor. If you have connections at these companies, you want to connect to them prior to your interview. And again, this is why you need 48 hours. If you can get a little bit more, you know, like, 72, do it. [laughs] You need to have conversations with people that work at the company and ask them for advice on interviewing. So make sure that you are finding some connections, getting some advice, and they can tell you, "Oh, okay. You're interviewing--" Depending on how small the company is, right? If you're interviewing with a large company like a Wells Fargo, a Facebook, Netflix, like, the person that you know or know of that works there, they may not know that specific person that you are interviewing with, but they can at least give you their feedback on their experience interviewing with the company. So make sure that you are taking time to reach out to people, okay? Oh, the show. The Netflix show is Rhythm + Flow. Rhythm + Flow, y'all. It just came to me. So the next tip here is that all interviews are virtual right now. With that being said, you have got to really understand the essence of virtually interviewing well, especially if you're a charmer, you're a people person. You know, when you get in front of someone in person, oh, you can win them over, but virtual interviewing is a whole different game. I actually wrote an article with Money Magazine on how to virtually interview well. I'll drop that in the show notes as well for you guys, so check that out. And I think that virtual interviews are going to be a thing for a while, I really do. So with that being said, you have no reason to not have a cheat sheet. I know they said you're not supposed to cheat, [laughs] like, in college and, you know, high school and all that, but hey, you can have a little, you know, something handy next to you when you're interviewing. What I actually do is whenever I have a media interview, whenever I have a virtual speaking engagement, I have a whiteboard in my office that's actually facing me, and I have an outline of the things that I want to speak to, you know? Just as a reminder. So whatever works for you, you know? Have a cheat sheet there with you. You don't have to, you know, read it verbatim, but just little things to remember to speak to this skill set, this specific hero story. I want to make sure I speak on this job. So make it easier for you to interview well virtually. So then my next tip is if you get to a second round interview, third round interview, you want to always go back to the recruiter, the person that you interviewed with first, and you want to ask them for tips on the next round. If you've made it to the next round, that means that that person that interviewed you hopefully thought really highly of you and they want to see you do well in that process, so don't be afraid to reach back out to them and ask them for advice. You want to make it as conversational as possible, so if you can, ask the interviewer questions. And don't wait until the end to ask questions, ask them questions throughout the interview. For example, if the interviewer asks you why you're interested in the company, share why of course and then ask them, "How has your experience been here working for this company? What do you like most about working here?" You know? Ask questions at the beginning. Have a little small talk at the beginning. If you can, try to find some common ground, you know? Talk about the weather, you know? Again, just figure out ways to let your personality shine through. It is a two-way street, so make sure you're interviewing these companies just as much as they are interviewing you. Make sure that you are taking some time to breath during the interview. If you need to on your resume, cheat sheet or whatever you decide to use, remind yourself to take deep breaths throughout the interview. I actually was reading something online that said, you know, you can sigh, you know, if you need to really catch your breath. Just let out a sigh, and it won't be as obvious as you taking a deep breath. So just remind yourself to breathe. Sometimes I'll write little reminders on sticky notes and put them beside, you know, or hang them up on my monitor here as little reminders that I need to help me during the day. Other things to do is make sure you listen to things that make you feel good before the interview to really get your energy in the right place and in the right space. Listen to a good playlist to boost your confidence. You know, Beyonce, Meg thee Stallion, whatever [laughs] you listen to that makes you feel good, or find funny videos. TikTok is pretty entertaining. Find things to help you with taking the nerves off a little bit. So I wish you all the best of luck with interviewing. Like I said, keep applying, keep looking. These jobs are out here and they need what you have to offer. All right, y'all, and like I said, I'll link some information on the membership club. Stay tuned for details about that, and y'all have a wonderful, wonderful weekend. Peace.

In today's episode, I'm going to share with you the seven surprising habits that support my business growth. And I'm not going to be focusing on the "business as usual" things you would probably expect. I'm going to talk about seven things that might just surprise you. So let's peel back the curtain and jump straight into it. I want to talk about these seven habits through the lens of why they support my business growth and also encourage you to think about what habits you need to put in place to ensure you are supporting your business growth as well. 1. Eating completely gluten-free. This is something I have tried and failed to do (and been on and off the wagon about) for many, many years now. I know that gluten is not good for my body. I know it's not good for my system. I have had many a naturopath and doctor tell me I should not be eating gluten, and yet delicious gluten just kept creeping back into my eating. But I have now been completely gluten free (aside from a couple of accidents) for at least four months now, and it has made a significant difference to how I feel. A big thing for me is brain fog. But the biggest impact that gluten has on me is the physical discomfort - it really messes with my digestive system.  I get really bloated, have no appetite, and I lose my sense of hunger for weeks after consuming gluten. Then I end up with no desire to eat food, and just snack on low nutrition things, which creates a huge cycle for me. But this decision is very specific to me. Going gluten-free is not what I'm talking about today. I just want you to think about: What is one thing your body needs from you? Whatever that is, it should be a consistent habit.  Can you make it a priority? For me, I can directly link my consumption of gluten with dips in my income in my business, dips in my productivity, dips in my effectiveness, and dips in my energy. Some of the big gaps where I didn't release podcast episodes for extended periods of time happened because I was feeling so lethargic with so much brain fog.  There were times I would turn on my recording system to record a podcast episode, and after an hour, I still hadn't formed three coherent sentences. I know this was happening because of what I was putting into my body. So I just use gluten as one sexy example. But for you it could be needing to hydrate more effectively. Maybe you're not eating enough vegetables, maybe you need a greater variety of colors of the rainbow in your diet. Maybe you need to stay away from gluten or sugar or dairy or whatever it might be for you. Whatever that thing is for you, it means that your body is not optimized in terms of its performance.  For me, it's particularly what I'm putting into my mouth. My habit of eating gluten-free actually impacts my business growth.  I can see direct links between how I feel and how I show up in my business with what I'm putting in my mouth. 2. Taking a slow meandering walk every morning. This is another of my surprising habits that directly impacts my business growth. I go on a morning walk with my beautiful dog Munchkin. And I'm not a power walker. I wake up so slowly. I have fresh lemon and warm water in the mornings, and then I put my shoes on and I wander out the door with Munchkin. And we go for a slow meandering walk. Some days I listen to podcasts. Some days I listen to walking meditations. Some days I listen to an audible book. Some days I don't listen to anything. But that habit is very good for my business in a number of ways. When I feel like I'm needing some inspiration to listen to other people, it's great to create that space and consistent habit of listening to something every day.  Particularly when I want to get through a great audio book, if I'm out walking for at least an hour each morning, I usually listen to books on one and a half times, and can get through plenty of chapters in that time. So it's a really great way to get through my audio books quickly. That morning walk is also a really beautiful boundary in my business, to be able to create that space - to not roll out of bed and start talking to clients straightaway. This means that when I do talk to clients, I'm switched on and I've got lots of oxygen in my system. I have already had that beautiful morning walk and had a chance to get my head together. I’ve set myself up for the day really beautifully. By the time I have my first client call, I've got myself together. Part of the reason why this morning walk is so important to me is that it's part of my vision of what I want my life to look like when I'm a multi-millionaire. It's a part of that vision I can do today. Every time I get up in the morning and go for my beautiful meandering, slow walk, I am living like “millionaire Tash” today. And that's a really powerful thing to do. So have a look at what you think your life will look like when your business hits its mark, wherever you want to get to, and pick something you can start doing now. If it's walking, then walk; if it's having someone come in and clean your house once a week - do that. If it's something that's free - start now. If it's something that's paid, and you need to get to a certain income level to do it, set yourself the goal of getting to that income level and get there as quickly as possible. The reason I brought this habit up is because it has so many different layers in how it supports my business. It's about setting my day up correctly, it's about having those boundaries. So I'm not having to roll out of bed straight into client time and feel rushed. I feel so spacious every morning. It's also about what it's doing for my body. Of course, I get all my steps done in the morning, so I don't have to worry about getting my steps in at any other point in the day. I do more vigorous activity in the afternoons, which I don't do every day, but I do my meandering walk every morning. It also contributes in terms of listening to things and getting that inspiration and those ideas - it just contributes in so many different ways that I love. 3. Colouring in. One of the things I love to do at the end of every day is track my income. And I love doing it because it's the perfect window into what's going on with my mindset. It helps me get clear on how much money is coming in for my business, and allows me to show insane gratitude for that money. It’s the very last thing I do each day when I'm working in my business. To give you an insight, I am recording these podcast episodes, and when I have finished this podcast episode, that's me done for today. So whenever I close the lid of my laptop for the day, I pull out my income tracking, check out how much money have I brought in today, and do this beautiful coloring in. That coloring in is not only great for my money mindset, for paying attention to my cash flow and looking at my income stuff, but it’s great for my gratitude. That becomes my gratitude practice for the day - done. And it’s this beautiful transition between working in my business and tuning out for the day. Sometimes it takes me two minutes, sometimes it takes me a little bit longer, but when I do that coloring in, I am signaling to both sides of my brain: “Okay, the day is done, it's time to shut down.” Another little habit I do is whilst I'm coloring in, if things pop to mind that I need to remember to do tomorrow, I just quickly stop and write those down in tomorrow's planner page, so when I step out of my office to have dinner or take Munchkin for another walk, or go to the gym, or whatever it is, I am switched off from my business. That is a boundary that means I'm way more present with my partner, I'm way more present with my friends, I'm way more present with my Munchkin. I'm way more present to my exercise that I'm doing and moving my body. Sometimes I'll get a massage or get someone to come to my house and give me a massage in the afternoon, and I'm way more present and can totally relax into it. My mind isn't racing with things I haven't done today, or things I have to remember for tomorrow, or haven’t quite shifted gears from business mode to outside mode. Coloring in is one juicy little habit does so much for my business growth. I know that when I turn up the next day in my business, I'm going to show up way more effectively if I've actually switched off in between. It can be so tempting to just say I’m an entrepreneur and I never stop thinking about my business.  But by consistently saying that to yourself, you are keeping that true. If you are hearing how I talk about switching off in the evenings and think maybe you’d like to try a little bit of that, just experiment with it.  That little transition from “working” into “not working” now is hyper, hyper powerful. 4. Getting my hair done. At the moment, it's every three weeks, but I will move that down to every two weeks and then eventually every week. It's moved to every three weeks because the hairdresser closest to me actually has closed down. So it went from five minutes to get to the hairdresser, to now about 45 minutes to get to the hairdresser. But I go and get my hair done. I had it done today (can you tell?) – it’s so shiny! I usually get them to do a little soft curl or something every three weeks, and I don't get it cut every time - I get it cut every second time.  And I don't get coloured every time, I just get a shampoo treatment and blow dry or curl, and then the next one I'll get the cut and colour and then blow dry as well. So that is something I always book for a morning. And then that same day I will schedule time to do some videos and Facebook Lives, and focus and all sorts of things because my hair is feeling great. Having that consistent habit in my business and in my life actually means my business is growing because I'm consistently creating content. I do more Facebook Lives on that day, I pre-record little videos for different launches. I can batch up a bunch of stuff, because I've got my hair done, I'm feeling really amazing. And I mean, who doesn't feel amazing after getting a scalp massage or sitting in a massage chair? They make me a little cup of tea and I have a great chat about random things that are happening in town. It is so nurturing and so lovely to be looked after. It just puts me in a really great frame of mind. Sometimes while I'm getting my hair done, I'll be jotting down little ideas about the things I want to record, so I'm really using that time effectively. Sometimes I just sit and read magazines about what Meghan Markle is up to or whatever, but most of the time, I’m thinking about things in my business and just jotting things down. Especially when there is wait time like waiting for the colour to set in or waiting for the treatment, whatever it might be. I will use that time to just jot down ideas for videos, so that when I do finally sit down later to do the videos, not only do I have my content plan for all my podcast episodes, but I often have all these extra little ideas. And I can just go and do them straightaway and it's super fun. I love to get my hair done. If you can get it done weekly, I recommend getting it done weekly. 5. Have a Toy Box. My toy box is where I put all of the fun project ideas, new product ideas, and things.  It's an Evernote notebook called “Tash’s Toy Box.” Whenever I think of something new, like doing a retreat, and the ideas flow (“we'll do this and we'll do that” or “we should do this thing at conference,” or “maybe I could add this thing to the academy” or “maybe I could make this entire new course”...) Those things go into the Toy Box. When I go back to Australia, I'm going to do some partnered speaking gigs, so I will reach out to three or four members of the lady posse, whom I know are all in one particular local area. And we'll put on a half day mini conference together. So I've had this amazing idea, and I really want to do it, and I was working up that idea from the toy box, because that was already in the toy box from several years ago. I set a timer on my phone for five minutes, I go straight into the toy box, I create a new note for it in the toy box, and I spend five minutes playing with that idea. And then I close the lid of the toy box and I go back to what I was doing. This is really powerful for my business because I know that in order for me to really hit my goals, get that growth, get that scaling happening, I need to stop playing with shiny objects. I know that I can come up with lots of really cool ideas. But that's not actually where I need to be focusing my energy and attention in my business. I've got a plan, particularly for the next one year, and I need to stay focused on that specific plan to make sure I'm nailing that before I start playing with any other new shiny things. The toy box habit allows me to keep generating all these creative ideas and play with that creativity, but in a way where it doesn't derail and sabotage my business. Every second Friday afternoon, I have Toy Box time scheduled into my calendar. As long as I've got all my jobs done for the week, and I'm really feeling it, I want to play in the toy box. I will allow myself a couple of hours to pull something out of the toy box and play with it.  I might design things or put more detail into it, or maybe chat to a few people and ask some questions. Then when toy box time is over, I put it back in the toy box, and I move on. I keep pulling things out and playing with them and then I put them back until they are ready. Then there's space in my business for those things to come to life. Now the beautiful thing about the toy box habit is that I don't ever shut down new ideas. When new ideas come, I reward them and encourage them and celebrate them, because what we focus on and show gratitude for is what we create more of, and generating ideas is one of my zone of genius things. It's also a value proposition for my clients and for people who are following me, because there's always new core strategies coming out. But that doesn't mean I need to stop what I'm doing in my business right now and derail everything to focus on that new thing. It’s a really beautiful strategy and a great habit that does support my business growth. I love Elizabeth Gilbert's take on this, and she talks about it in her book “Big Magic.” She says that if an idea comes knocking at your door enough and you don't pick it up and run with it, it will go and knock on someone else's door. Something I have recognized with the plethora of ideas in my toy box is that it can also be really fun for me to hand those ideas on to someone else. As a result, a lot of my VIP clients have products, services, courses, memberships, that were actually born in my toy box. The ideas may have come in originally for my business, but after evaluating on a scale of 1 to 10 how important it was to my model, how likely I would be to actually implement it, and whether it was really aligned with my core business, I sometimes concluded it wasn’t a fit.  Then I asked myself, well, whose business is it aligned with? Sometimes I know exactly who to give it to straightaway and I go talk to them about it straightaway. A lot of the time, it will come up in a VIP session with a client. The client will be talking about wanting to do a membership thing and I already have a really amazing idea in my Toy Box.  So we pull it out and play with it, and as a result there have been masterminds and group events and conferences and new courses and new memberships all born out of my toy box. It’s exciting to know that this thing is going to exist, and I can help that person bring it out into the world.  And I don't have to be responsible for the ongoing management of that thing. Ideation is one of my favourite things to do. And I get to do it really beautifully because I have this amazing toy box. So my toy box habit of allowing myself to play with new ideas but then putting them back in the toy box has allowed my business to grow in so many different ways. 6. Taking time out. I understand that when you’re in the thick of things, and you’re going for a goal and you're in the middle of a launch, taking time out is not necessarily aligned to what you believe is actually going to grow your business. But as a reformed workaholic/perfectionist, I can tell you that the more time I take away from my business, the more effective I am in my business, and the better my business runs, and the more I keep those boundaries about who does what in my business rather than taking on jobs I've delegated to someone else. The more I take time off from my business, the better my business works and the faster it grows. I talked about this in a previous podcast episode (tashcorbin.com/192) about how taking time out in your business isn't always just an all or nothing concept. You can take time out in your business by making sure you finish at four o'clock every single day. That is taking time out and actually shutting down. Or you can have a three day weekend once a month. You can also take time out of a certain part of your business. Maybe you don't do client facing time on Mondays and Fridays, only on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Maybe you don't do any group stuff except for on Wednesdays, right? So if you can you keep those boundaries around things, it helps you to create this sense of spaciousness and this capacity for lots of time off, not just a four-week chunk once a year, but actually spaciousness throughout your time in your business. Taking time away supports me my mental well-being and my health well-being. It supports my creativity, my idea generation, my enthusiasm and motivation for my business. It supports me having a great relationship and not feeling like my business is costing me my relationship or my friendships or my social life. All of those things add up to a more effective and a more successful business. So taking time away, habitually, is actually responsible for a lot of my business growth. 7. Decluttering. I love decluttering in lots of different ways. We do this in my Fast Money Challenge. In the Fast Money Challenge, I talk about the different layers of decluttering that you can do for your business.  I declutter whenever I'm going for a goal as part of my manifesting process. And whether it's my monthly income goal, or a 10-day short term income goal, or a longer-term goal, I will declutter as part of that process of manifesting the money. There are different layers of decluttering that I do.  The first phase of deep decluttering is physical decluttering, like getting in the habit of tidying your desk.  Keep your workspace nice and organized and declutter your purse, handbag, or laptop bag. This helps to keep things feeling spacious physically.  Physical spaciousness and decluttering is the first stage because physical clutter is the fastest way to slow down the energy of a space. (Hashtag let's watch some hoarders and see just how true that is!!) Then I do a digital declutter. I recently decluttered my calendar. I had lots of random blocks in my calendar for random things. I had blocked out Mondays for this and Wednesdays for that, and every Friday afternoon for toybox time and all those sorts of things, but there were just so many of them. So I went in and decluttered all of the things out of my calendar that were recurring appointments or random appointments that didn't need to be there. I just left the bare minimum appointments. Then I went into my Acuity and changed my hours of work, so I didn't need to keep blocking out all that time. I put in three time blocks for the three most important things and they are recurring weekly time books, and it was so good. My calendar is now spacious again, and that spaciousness creates so much excitement for me. It energizes me. It means there's room for more in my calendar because I've decluttered the unnecessary stuff. In a digital declutter, I also tidy up my downloads folder if it has got a few too many things in it, or my documents, or the desktop, or the inbox - all of those spaces where you might just have clutter accumulating digitally. I have a folder called “business development” and a folder called “personal development,” and if I go to webinars, or sign up for freebies, I will save a lot of those things in there. So every month I declutter it, because if I haven't watched something within a month, the chances of me watching it are pretty low! Just declutter it. It creates so much spaciousness, releases that heaviness of feeling there are still more things to watch or do.  I figure if I really need to learn that thing, I have this amazing magical tool called Google, right? I also do energetic decluttering. You could call this mindset, energetic, or emotional decluttering.  I might write down a list of all of the worries I have, and then I'll tap on them.  I'll do some journaling, and clear out the mental clutter that's going on. Sometimes I find even doing my end of day ritual that I may still be carrying mental clutter, like to do lists or shopping lists. So I consistently put those things down somewhere. In our phones, both Davey and I have a family management app. It has shopping lists, to do lists, a shared calendar and a shared diary like a gratitude journal, and a shared message board. It's a really cool app. I love it. And in that app, I have the shopping lists and stuff. So when I’m thinking, “I have to remember to buy that,” I’ll get it out of the brain and put it in the app. Because if it’s in the app, both Davey and I can see it, and we might be able to take care of some things for each other. And not only that, when I go to the shops, I will actually remember to open the app and find it. It's just getting into the habit of using the systems that you already have to declutter your mind. If you have a bunch of grievances you're holding onto in your brain and are wanting to remember to be cranky at that person, write it down, forgive it, tap it away and just let it go. All of that emotional clutter is slowing down your business growth. On that note of decluttering and keeping your business growth going quicker, I want to share with you a free resource called Fast Track Your Startup. It's not just for startups, but does focus mostly on those early stages of business. In that training, I take you through the things that you don't need to focus on and the things that you do need to focus on in order to get that income going up quickly in your business. It helps you to declutter all the things you don't necessarily need to be doing. And it also helps you to focus on and prioritize those things that are going to bring the income quickly. Before we close up on today's episode, I'd love to know which of my seven surprising habits surprised you the most? And what habit are you going to implement into your business to fast track your business growth?   Until next time, I cannot WAIT to see you SHINE.  

I have hooked up with the Timeline Channel on youtube to do History Hit Live three times a week. Sometimes I'll share the audio as a podcast on this feed. My chat with Clifford Williamson, lecturer at Bath Spa University and specialising in the History of Public Health, was fascinating. We talked about the widespread pandemics of the last 150 years and what we can learn from them when we look at the current COVID-19 outbreak. He also had some suggestions about what may change as a result of the crisis we are going through.Subscribe to History Hit and you'll get access to hundreds of history documentaries, as well as every single episode of this podcast from the beginning (400 extra episodes). We're running live podcasts on Zoom, we've got weekly quizzes where you can win prizes, and exclusive subscriber only articles. It's the ultimate history package. Just go to historyhit.tv to subscribe. We have got an offer available at the moment. If you use the code 'Pod3' on sign up, you get 30 days free, then your first three months access will be just £1/euro/dollar - it's £5.99 a month after. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I have hooked up with the Timeline Channel on youtube to do History Hit Live three times a week. Sometimes I'll share the audio as a podcast on this feed. My chat with Clifford Williamson, lecturer at Bath Spa University and specialising in the History of Public Health, was fascinating. We talked about the widespread pandemics of the last 150 years and what we can learn from them when we look at the current COVID-19 outbreak. He also had some suggestions about what may change as a result of the crisis we are going through.Subscribe to History Hit and you'll get access to hundreds of history documentaries, as well as every single episode of this podcast from the beginning (400 extra episodes). We're running live podcasts on Zoom, we've got weekly quizzes where you can win prizes, and exclusive subscriber only articles. It's the ultimate history package. Just go to historyhit.tv to subscribe. We have got an offer available at the moment. If you use the code 'Pod3' on sign up, you get 30 days free, then your first three months access will be just £1/euro/dollar - it's £5.99 a month after. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

J:  I have a friend of mine, whose name is Ben, and he's going to talk about some of the anxiety situations he's gotten himself into, and what he did to get himself out of them. Hi Ben. B: How are you doing, John? J: Just fine, thanks. What I'd like to do, if you don't mind, is to go through seven of the eight kinds of anxiety and just ask you if you've experienced them, and maybe a little bit about what you've done about them. I'm going to skip the first one, which is simple anxieties, such as claustrophobia or agoraphobia, because they are very common. The first one I want to talk about is social phobia. That includes things like giving speeches or going to parties. Things like that. Do you think you have any social phobias? B: I wouldn't say I have a social phobia. I'm a bit of a performer, and kind of an extrovert, but I also really don't like being around people all the time. I kind of describe myself as an extroverted introvert. J; That's fine, Ben. But that's pretty clearly not anxiety. Let's move on to the third one, which is separation anxiety. Do you experience any separation from anybody as being particularly frightening. B: Not particularly, no. J: Ok fine. The fourth one is generalized anxiety. What about that? B: Yeah. I'm pretty much always anxious about something, or just have a sense of anxiety, whether its towards any specific thing or not. J: When you feel kind of anxious about something, What do you do about it? What helps you? B: It's always something different. Thats something I’ve learned, that you can't always use one coping strategy for every situation, you have to try different things for different situations and figure it out, and even if its a similar situation to one you've had before, sometimes the same solution won't work. J: Boy, are you absolutely right about that. You've got to have a number of arrows in your quiver in order to hit the target, that's for sure. Now I do want to mention this: some research that my colleagues and I did with large numbers of young adults, the results were that males, about seventy-five percent of males do much better with physical techniques of relaxing such as tightening all your muscles and letting them go, or deep breathing, and the women, about seventy-five percent of them, worked much better with mental things. That includes imagining yourself by a nice, quiet lake, or that you're listening to a chorus of monks singing. So are you more like the males here or the twenty five percent category? B: I think I'm more towards the twenty five percent. Of course there's deep breathing that works occasionally, but mental stimulation tends to help me more, so I think more the twenty five percent. J: Can you tell us what kind of imagery that you tend to seek when you're feeling anxious? B; Yeah, I think of people who I love, or good times I've had. Sometimes I'll sing a little song in my head that I enjoy, or just try to make up a story to distract myself. J: I seem to remember that one of your favorite songs is “oh la de da” is that correct? B: (laughing) Absolutely! J: That's an inside joke. Ok. Number five on our list: agoraphobia. Kind of not liking to be away from home very much. B: Yeah, kind of. Not super, but a little bit yeah. J: What typifies the situation where you don't like being away from home. Is it a long trip to a strange place? Or what would categorize this? B: Something I can't get out of. So if I can't escape to calm down, or if I'm kind of stuck in a place that causes me some anxiety, if I'm not in a place I feel safe. J: That brings up an interesting point, Ben. I have the same thing. Especially if I go to somebody's house for dinner and I find myself to be surprised to find myself quite bored by  the conversation, I don't experience it as boring and that I've just got to get through it. I experience it as being trapped, being claustrophobic, and of course that makes it a lot worse for me. So very often you get to a place where you just as soon would not go out with friends or whatever. I remember back in 1984 I almost got housebound. Just didn't want to go any place. Have you had anything like that? B: Yes, I think when I was younger, like middle school age, I was going through a lot and just couldn't make it outside or go anywhere J: Ok. Have you ever experienced a panic attack. One of those very sharp and very strong anxieties, even to the point where you feel like maybe you are going to die or something terrible is going to happen to you. B: Absolutely. Unfortunately I've experienced that many, many times. J: I'm sorry to hear that. Can you tell me the circumstances that typically brings it out? B: Usually it's a result of many things piling up over time and then I just can't handle it anymore and I snap. J: Yeah somebody I was talking to, a woman recently who had been through a very long, difficult period of time, and she said when she thought it was going to be over, all of a sudden she experienced a panic attack. She said to me “ I always thought that people who said they were having a panic attack were just trying to get out of something, they were malingering or whatever” she said “ but I've had two of them now and they're just awful. They seem to come on you all of a sudden” and Ben you've probably heard me talk about the analogy to a stampede. If you don't pay attention to the early warning signs of a panic attack, and we do get them, we just don't pay attention to them. Sometimes we just don't want to think about it. Then the next thing you know the cows are up and they are running and it's too late, you've got a stampede on your hands, so you need to try to be more responsive and ore aware of the fact that you're on the verge of a panic attack and cut it off at the pass. Does that make sense to you? B: Yeah absolutely, that’s something that's allowed me to have far fewer panic attacks. J: That's terrific. I'm so glad to hear that. Number seven is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I happen to have known you for a long time, and I know that at least at one time, when you were only four years old, you were collecting rocks on the beach, and your mother said “that's enough rocks” and you said “ no I have to collect them all'' and she said you just can't, we don't have any room for all the rocks on the beach, and you started to cry and I remember I thought “wow it looks like he's got OCD.” At such an early age I'd never seen it before. Did that turn out to be true? B: Absolutely. And my OCD has kind of evolved over the ages from needing to collect things to search for symmetry, and a need for tradition and keeping certain activities, and doing them the same way whenever I do them. J: Well those are some excellent examples of what happens when somebody has OCD. As you know, it's obsessions which are thoughts, and compulsions which are behaviors, but they are both pretty much the same thing. I make the analogy to superstitions. Superstitions tend to come about because somebody says, you know the old story “Don't step on a crack, you'll break your mother's back” and so you avoid stepping on a crack and when you get home you find out that indeed, your mother's back  is not broken, and we laugh about that but that's kind of the syndrome to the extreme of OCD, is that you learn that if you double check the oven to make sure you turned it off, or that the iron is turned off, or that the water is not running, then you feel better; relieved because of this. And it may be that you are trying to punish yourself for these thoughts. I don't know.  But at any rate you feel a lot better when you go and check so what you learn from that is id better always go back and check. Does that sound right? B: Yeah that's a description of OCD I hear often. But sometimes it's like that for me, but it's also less superstition in other cases, many other cases. It's just I feel a kind of existential dread or extreme discomfort until I perform an action or do a certain thing a certain way. J: So it sounds to me like theres the threat of a panic attack, and it is relieved by doing something obsessive or compulsive. Does that make sense to you? B: Yes it could be described that way. But there's always a wide variety of things that could determine whether or not I feel a certain way about something. J: there's one more, which I presume you do not have, because you haven't been in the military, at least not yet. And that's Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Do you think you have any signs of that? B: No, I don't think so J: Well Ben, this has been very helpful. This was exactly what I was looking for when I invited you to be on the podcast. And I think you've given us some really good examples of what these various kinds mean. I hope we'll get a chance to talk again sometime.   B: Hopefully so! I'd be happy to come back.

Tom Rhoads (00:03): In our previous podcast, we interviewed human factors expert Christina Mendat. Christina worked with us in some of the software design for Spencer. I thought you would also enjoy hearing more about the development team at Spencer Health Solutions. So we invited our software product owner Mary Wrenn to join the podcast and tell us how she works with spencer and our engineering team. I'm Tom Rhodes, CEO of Spencer Health Solutions and I hope you enjoy this episode of "People Always, Patients Sometimes." Janet Kennedy (00:33): You're listening to "People Always, Patients Sometimes" podcast production of Spencer Health Solutions. I'm your host and my name is Janet Kennedy. I am really looking forward to learning something new during the conversation today I have Mary Wrenn who's our software product owner at Spencer Health Solutions with me. Welcome to "People Always, Patients Sometimes." Mary Wrenn (00:54): it is wonderful to be here. I am so excited to talk to you. Janet Kennedy (00:58): Thanks Mary. You know, this is one of the interesting things about a work environment where you see somebody every day, you talk to them every day, but sometimes the actual process of what they do is a mystery. So I'm really looking forward to having a conversation with you. Mary Wrenn (01:15): Absolutely. I think we know each other well from meeting in the kitchen, but I'm excited to chat a little bit more about what I do. Janet Kennedy (01:21): So you are officially titled a software product owner. Do we have more than one software? Mary Wrenn (01:28): Nope. There's just one software platform across the suite of products, the mobile app, the web portal, and the device itself. I am the product owner for all three of those. Janet Kennedy (01:40): So what does that mean? Are you the engineer on the train? Are you the conductor on the train? Are you the caboose on the train? What is your role and how do you keep things moving forward? Mary Wrenn (01:49): Yeah, so I would say I'm kind of like the conductor/cat herder. So I essentially help to keep things moving in the right direction. Sometimes I'll be picking the way the tracks go or sometimes we'll be talking about the best design for the train. So it's a little bit of everything. But for the most part it's executing and kind of getting into the tactical details of how we do what we do. Janet Kennedy (02:14): I imagine when you joined us you really felt like you've jumped off a cliff and now you're in the deep end of the pond as it were. Was it overwhelming or is there something about software product ownership that you can apply skills from your previous experience to here and settle in fairly quickly? Mary Wrenn (02:34): I actually came from another kind of software product owner, product manager role. I was originally at United Health Group working within Optum, so I consciously decided to go from a really large company to a smaller company. I was really enticed by the fact that I could wear a lot of different hats and I've definitely gotten to do that here. I really enjoy getting to do a lot of different across the product suite, whether that's design, technical implementation, or really just getting into the details of how things are going to work and how people are going to use them. Definitely felt like I was kind of going from walking to running a marathon, but I really enjoy it and I liked that the software product ownership really has a lot of different facets to it. Janet Kennedy (03:21): In a sense, we've gotten virtual. We've been able to see a sneak peek into everybody's homes and I was very impressed that you actually had in your home a giant whiteboard that was filled with all kinds of information. So you're a very organized person, Mary. Mary Wrenn (03:37): Thank you. Yeah, the whiteboard is a key. Pretty much anything from any conversation we have is going to get thrown up there. I'm trying to do color coding, but I think that was an ambitious idea that probably got thrown away after meeting number 10. Janet Kennedy (03:50): Well, I can relate to that. So I'm curious, you've been in healthcare then for a while. Is there anything unique or different about software product management in a healthcare realm versus a traditional B2B or B to C business? Mary Wrenn (04:07): Definitely. I think so. I feel like healthcare is really the most intimate industry of any of them. You touch people's lives and really personal places and you really get to see people at their most vulnerable. But that's really what enticed me to healthcare in general. I really liked that you can make an impact on people's lives, whether that's directly or indirectly. So I liked that you can use software as a tool to really help better people's lives, even if you're not directly with them, say like a nurse. So I think healthcare is really special. It comes with a lot of responsibility, but it's, it's really exciting how much change you can drive. Janet Kennedy (04:45): Well, let's talk about change a little bit. The one thing that I know about software is you're always working on something. It is never done and there's always more to do. So when you look at plans for Spencer, for instance, how far ahead are you looking? Is it just trying to get to Friday or is it three weeks, six weeks, six months, five years? How does the planning work for something like that? Mary Wrenn (05:11): It depends on which aspect of the product in general you'll be looking at. So there are some things that when we're designing product features, we're trying to look really far out five, 10 years in the future, even just to make sure that we're making a really flexible design. That's a lot of the architecture decisions, like how we're setting up things in terms of how we'll read bar codes or how we'll add different countries, things like that. Then there are other shorter term goals, like how are we going to wrap up this project to make sure we get this to the right patients at the right time. So our roadmaps, really a mix, we usually are organizing things kind of by release and customer need. So that'll prioritize it in the next few weeks, the next few months. But within that we're trying to make flexible decisions so that way anything we're doing now can be iterated on in the next few years. So our roadmap is weekly, quarterly, and yearly. Janet Kennedy (06:08): And when you're designing something, you need to look out to the future because when you get to two years from now and you want to add this significant element, but oops, if you didn't do something two years ago, does that mean it's impossible or you're just going to have to do all kinds of workarounds to make it happen? Mary Wrenn (06:28): So it really depends. Right now, for instance, we're in the process of really standing up a brand new product software wise. So when I came in we were really in the process of redesigning and rebuilding things from the ground up. So there were a lot of those decisions that were kind of baked in in terms of, well if we change it this way we'll have to go back and completely reconfigure things. Or if we do something this way now then it's going to be set that way, the future. So really we try to make the most flexible decisions we can, but try to align that with some of the goals or needs we know are coming. So for instance, previously we were very much aligned to care management and sort of this thought that every patient is going to have one caregiver and it's going to be a very linear relationship. Now we're trying to make that a flexible architecture where it won't work just for care management but for clinical trials also. And those are very different use cases. So what we're trying to circle back, we're trying to make sure that we don't have to go back and say, Oh well if we had just done this, you know, two months ago, this would be so much easier. We're really trying to make things so they're modular and can fit together. Janet Kennedy (07:37): Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Now you mentioned a cat herding and I do know what that's like because I'm on the marketing side and there's a certain amount of cat herding there as well. I'm curious about how people interact together. Is it a domino effect where if you're flipping the Domino's over and they're running forward, but then a domino is missing, everything comes to a stop or have you got parallel paths and somebody can catch up if they're a little behind but it doesn't stop the whole workflow? Mary Wrenn (08:09): Yeah, so we're currently trying to make the team as cross functional as possible so everyone can do a little bit of everything. Obviously within that there are people who are more embedded in their specialties. For instance, we have some people who are really good at the embedded software or we have some people who were really good with Bluetooth or others who are really good with the UI. So we try to make sure that we can have these parallel paths running, but there will always be some dependencies. So a lot of that comes into how our planning, so we'll use a basically an agile process to go and plan out our sprints. We'll do story points and within that we like to get the workload on people so we can ensure that not everything is just running towards one person and then it's bottleneck did and that person just feels of pressure. So we try to spread the dependencies as much as we can. Janet Kennedy (09:00): I had a great conversation earlier with Christina Mendez, who has a company called human factors MD. And her role is to come in and help put together the relationship between psychology and engineering. So understanding how people as people work, look at things, interact, and then how engineering designs the things to work best with people. So I'm curious, is this an ongoing thing? Do you use human factors in a lot of the decision making you're doing or is it literally just for the interface between the user and Spencer? Mary Wrenn (09:41): So it's really across a lot of the product in general. You know, granted most of that focus is on the interface itself, which is mostly the device, but it also comes into play on the web portal, Spencer care and on the mobile apps, but psoriasis. So we really try to look at the ways that people will use that and the different use cases fair. But even into things like our API is we have some customers who aren't going to be sending us information directly through the API. We want to make sure that those are easy to use as well. So there might not be a graphical interface there who we want to make sure that it's logical and it doesn't need pages of explanation just to use a simple function. Janet Kennedy (10:20): I tried to give Christina credit for the personality of Spencer and she said, Nope, no, that wasn't her. So who came up with and how do you manage the personality? Because I honestly feel like Spencer is a person. He has a fun way of speaking, he's very relaxed, he's very engaging, he's very easy to use. So is there something that you do that your team does that gives Spencer personality? Mary Wrenn (10:49): So we really made sure to work closely with marketing in general. Gail was a huge help in terms of really imparting that personality. I was really lucky when I first got here that I had a lot of time to sit with her and really go over all the wording on the screens and say, you know, how did these look? Even things as simple as error messages saying, does this really fit his personality? And I was really able to get a strong sense of who he is and how he talks to our patients. So we were able to really incorporate that into the design of the screens and all of the logic within that. So anything from the error screens to how he's telling you to take your medication? We really just sat down and went through it step by step on how we want him to communicate with patients. Janet Kennedy (11:33): Speaking of communicating, we're very excited that Spencer has headed across the pond to Europe and that the first country Spencer has been in that doesn't speak English, is the Netherlands and so Spencer's now Dutch speaking, what was it like to take our existing product and redo everything in the Dutch language and then now I guess we're going to be looking at French and German and Spanish, et cetera. What is that like translating a complete platform to another language Mary Wrenn (12:07): in a word difficult, but it was a really great challenge actually, I think for most of us on the team, this was the first time we had done something in another language, so there were a lot of decision points and things that you don't even think about that we really had to consider. So even things like the word, okay, is that going to fit on a button to the colors mean the same thing to the symbols mean the same thing and how do we make that really universal? So we really had to think about how we were architecting the platform and even how the text and the colors and the voice prompts would all interface with each other. There's some important things about the voice prompts as well. You want to make sure that he's actually telling people to take their medication and not to say, well, if you want to do, maybe go take it. Mary Wrenn (12:52): So it was a lot of things like that. The process itself actually I felt like went pretty well. It was a learning experience at first for sure. We realized for instance, that Dutch has a lot of really long words which don't necessarily fit on buttons and the current font size that we have. So we actually had to reconfigure the UI a little bit to accommodate that. We also had to adjust how we were displaying questions when we were trying those out with some French examples just to see how those would look. So it actually informed a lot of our design, the sizing, the display. There were a lot of things we had to account for that we didn't initially in English. Janet Kennedy (13:29): What do you consider some of the biggest challenges that you have to deal with in trying to make Spencer work in multiple types of business environments? Mary Wrenn (13:41): The overall architecture, because if you're taking care of your grandma, you would kind of need a different machine and you would look to it for different uses than you would if you were a clinical trial trying to give a drug to hundreds of patients. But fundamentally it's all the same platform that's going to be used. So you really have to design that very flexibly so that way you can accommodate all of those different things within the same platform. So it's really important to keep in mind the personas of who's going to be using what and making sure that everything will work to align with those use cases and work in their best interest. I think the most challenging piece is just making sure that you are staying flexible enough that the product is usable for all the different personas. Janet Kennedy (14:27): So as a marketer, I haven't been as involved as my boss. She's been very involved in getting Spencer launched over in Europe. But one of the things that I did get to participate in was selecting voices for the Spencer voice. So Spencer is sometimes female and sometimes male, which I think is interesting, but I love the reaction to the voice we chose for Dutch. And I wonder if you had heard the story and can tell everybody a little bit about what we found out once we pick the special voice. Mary Wrenn (15:02): Absolutely. That was definitely one of my favorite parts of the translation. So initially we got to just all sit around and listen to these lovely Dutch voices, read us things we could not understand. We finally landed on this really nice, soft sounding female voice and everybody was like, Oh, I really like her, chose that, didn't think much of it. And as she was reading out the video tutorials, we got a feedback from our Dutch partners that apparently this woman had narrated animated shows for kids in the Netherlands and it was really popular. And so one of our business partners would say, Oh, it's so soothing. You can feel like I'm watching cartoons. It reminds me of childhood. Janet Kennedy (15:41): That's awesome. We found the Mary Poppins of the Netherlands to be the voice of spencer. That's pretty serendipitous. I think Mary Wrenn (15:49): that was my favorite. I think she has a lovely voice. I love that she explains how to use Spencer in Dutch. You're like, I don't know what you're saying, but I love it. Janet Kennedy (15:57): Well, Mary, it sounds like you actually enjoy your job. Mary Wrenn (16:01): I do. I really like a challenge and this always keeps me on my toes. I love that. At a small company like this you can wear a ton of different hats and do a lot of different things, so I think it's been a great growth opportunity. Janet Kennedy (16:12): Well, I look forward to the time when we can all be face to face again in person as opposed to virtually, hopefully covert 19 will be resolving itself in the not too distant future so we can get back to working together a little more closely. Mary Wrenn (16:28): Absolutely. But in the meantime it has been wonderful to speak with you at least virtually. Janet Kennedy (16:34): Thanks, Mary and thank you for downloading this episode of "People Always, Patients Sometimes." if you enjoy the conversation, a review and a rating on iTunes will help us find more listeners. This podcast is a production of Spencer health solutions.  

Hey listeners! It’s been a mad mad mad week here (all of you in the future, check the date), and I bet there too. Result: there are no shownotes for this episode. We’re talking about revamping my website to get it in gear for my forthcoming second book. Here’s the image we mention—the before—and for the after (which is still in progress), head over to my site and see what you think. Any questions, shoot me an email (kjdellantonia@gmail.com or reply to this.Transcript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ (00:00):Hey #AmWriting listeners, this is KJ and this is my seventh time attempting to record this pre-episode discussion of something really cool that's being authored by Author Accelerator, our sponsor. I think you all know that I loved working with Jennie Nash on revising my manuscript for The Chicken Sisters. Well, if you'd be interested in working in a small group with Jennie, she is offering a Rock Your Revision small intensive workshop for fiction writers ready to revise manuscripts this summer, July 16th - 19th of 2020 in Santa Barbara, California. If that interests you, if it sounds like something you'll be ready for, if it sounds like something that having it scheduled might make you get ready for (and I think that will work) head on over to author accelerator.com click on the retreats and summits link, and then scroll on down to Rock Your Revision to learn more. Is it recording now?Jess (01:05):Now it's recording.KJ (01:06):Yay.Jess (01:06):Go ahead.KJ (01:08):This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone like I don't remember what I'm supposed to be doing.Jess (01:12):Alright, let's start over.KJ (01:13):Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay. Now one, two, three. Hi, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia and this is #Am writing the podcast about writing all the things and getting them out into the world. And that's all I'm going to say about that this week.Sarina (01:37):Really? Well, I'm Sarina Bowen and I write long things, primarily genre fiction and I've written 30-odd romances and my newest one is called Sure Shot. If I ever finish it.KJ (01:50):I can't wait for it. Okay. I am KJ Dell'Antonia, the dithering other voice on the other end of the microphone. I am the author of the novel, The Chicken Sisters coming out this summer and the book How To Be a Happier Parent as well as the former editor of the New York Times' Motherlode blog. And those are the things that I do and it's just me and Sarina today.Sarina (02:23):It is. We're here to work on KJ's launch sequence.KJ (02:26):Yes. And if we sound a little odd, we are (as we often are) working in our local libraries. So, yes. Sarina, as we all know, has many, many, many past identities and for all I know is also cat woman when we're not together. But one of those past identities is helping people, specifically authors, with their websites. So that's our plan today. We're going to go over my website and talk about how I can shift it from being a website, primarily designed for a parenting author to a website designed for an author in general. And the way we're going to do this (if you want to take a look) by the time you hear this, I will have changed it. So we're going to take a lot of screenshots. So if you'd like to see what we're talking about and we will describe it cause you're probably in your car. But if you do want to just head over to the show notes at amwritingpodcast.com and there will be pictures, screenshots of this website as it is today before the dramatic changes that I'm going to make to it. I mean, it's a good website somebody made it for me and I can change it and you know, there's nothing wrong with it other than that there is absolutely no mention of my nove,l at all whatsoever.Sarina (03:55):Right.KJ (03:56):Because that's the first thing that's wrong with it. Check.Sarina (03:59):So I usually get involved with an author's website at about this same point. Sometimes I'll get calls earlier before people have cover art for their book and those people have been told that they must have an author website and start building their platform and blah, blah blah, but they don't have a book cover. And that is fine. Like, it's great to be invested in handling your book launch, but if you really do your website before you have cover art, you're wasting your money because it, you know, it would be disappointing to do a website all in purple and to find that your book cover is bright yellow. So, you know, I gently dissuade people from spending their hard earned cash early on, but you're ready to go because you have your cover art.KJ (04:50):I do.Sarina (04:51):And I have to say that I have seen some smashingly beautiful author websites over time, just so original and stunning that angels weep.KJ (05:03):That's not really what I'm going for.Sarina (05:04):Well, that's not really what I go for either. I mean, I think that the most important, pretty much the only important thing is that your website do two things. One is that it helps readers bond with your book before they're ready to click that one-click button. So that means that they're familiar with the cover art. So when your page loads at kjdellantonia.com we should see the new cover art immediately. That's pretty much step one. And the second thing is that most readers, I mean they can learn about us anywhere, right? Like social media, Amazon, Barnesandnoble.com, there's so many places. But if they actually take the trouble to find their way all the way to your website, it's probably because they have a question. So we're going to anticipate that question and try to answer it within one to two clicks, two being the absolute maximum. So if you can do those two things, you're doing so, so well.KJ (06:10):Excellent. And one of the reasons I'm leaping on this is that I searched another author somebody that I know because I knew that they had a new book coming out, and I couldn't remember the name, and I needed to know for various reasons. And I went to their website and it wasn't there. And that's exactly what someone could do for me. Although let me just say that author's book is coming out before me. Okay. So that person had better just get on it.Sarina (06:40):And this is sometimes difficult, like not everybody likes noodling with websites. Like I love it, honestly.KJ (06:46):I'm happy to crawl around in there, too. I just want to have a mission.Sarina (06:51):Right. And for some people this is like the hardest partKJ (06:55):And if it is the hardest part, hire someone. You don't have to do this yourself.Sarina (07:01):It doesn't have to be fancy.KJ (07:02):It doesn't. Or you like Squarespace, right?Sarina (07:06):I love Squarespace. But there are even easier things to do. Like did you know that if you join the Author's Guild for approximately $200 a year, you get a free website from them and they will help you set it up?KJ (07:18):I did not.Sarina (07:19):Yeah. And you won't have as much control over it as I like to have over mine. But if you just hate websites, that is not a bad option.KJ (07:27):You know, we don't need blogs anymore. You know, your website is probably (correct me if I'm wrong) a largely static entity.Sarina (07:38):Well, mine is not actually.KJ (07:40):No, I know yours isn't. Because you are a person who puts out many, many books a year. So if you're that, then you're working with a website with probably shopping, and possibly merch, and some other things. I, on the other hand, am a one book every couple of years author at the moment, although I'd like to speed that up. And so I am not really needing to use my website to inform you of immediate developments.Sarina (08:10):Right. So I would like to add a third thing to our little to do list, though. Because I don't want to burden everyone and say that you have to do a million things on your author website. But honestly, this third thing could save your career, which is that you must have a way for people to sign up for your newsletter that is both easy without being irritating.KJ (08:29):That's a challenge.Sarina (08:31):Yeah. Well, I mean, we're all quite used to popups now. There are obnoxious ones and less obnoxious ones. And anyway, I'll leave that to our readers to decide.KJ (08:41):I turned my pop-up off because it was outdated and I could not figure it out. So normally I have a pop-up.Sarina (08:49):I turned my off as well because I didn't like the conversion rate of it. Like I thought, wow, I'm irritating 97 people for every three that type their email address in. But, instead I have many other very useful solicitations for email addresses.KJ (09:10):If you want to sign up for my email, you can go to followkj.com and there you will find my website sign up.Sarina (09:16):That's great.KJ (09:17):I think so, I'm pretty pleased with it. Wait, you'll laugh, I have to show it to Sarina. Because I changed it very on the fly recently I had to come up with an image very quickly and...Sarina (09:34):Oh, you know, that is funny. And I saw this the other day. I don't remember why, but I looked at it.KJ (09:39):It's a Playmobile character barfing into a tiny little Playmobile toliet.Sarina (09:42):Yes, we're going to have to work on this, KJ.KJ (09:44):I know, but I figured it would get attention.Sarina (09:48):It does, but your book cover needs to be right there.KJ (09:49):Let's start with the website and then we'll do the signup in a minute.Sarina (10:00):So right now, KJ's website has a bunch of wonderful parenting pictures on it, which suited her last book perfectly.KJ (10:07):And they're all in a sort of a red - pink theme.Sarina (10:10):Yes. I would quibble with the way that your cover art is not above the fold here. I will just tell you a couple of things about this challenge. So, websites as we design them on a screen are usually horizontal. Books are vertical. This is the main challenge of my life, aside from plotting novels. So KJ also just opened the website on her phone because this is something that I beg people to do and they don't usually listen. But more than half of your website visitors will be on their phones. And that is really hard for authors to figure out when they're struggling to get their hands around their website in the first place, that the phone part is almost more important. You know, people will come and say, 'Could you move my name a half an inch to the right?' And I usually let fly that line from The Matrix. Because most modern web building tools, i(ncluding Squarespace and the better templates at WordPress) now build a website on the fly for every single visitor based on the dimensions of their screen. So there is no one website, you can't design it like a movie poster anymore, you have to make something responsive. And that's why I use Squarespace because they're very good at that. And obviously lots of WordPress themes are too, I just am not as familiar.KJ (11:37):Mine is a WordPress theme, so we're not going to mess with the backend. I'm going to go and do that on my own. We're just going to talk about what it looks like and what it ought to look like. So step one...Sarina (11:48):You have a banner on yours with your name kind of in the middle instead of here above the main navigation. For displaying cover art I actually think that's a little trickier, but you can probably find a way around it or you can just move your name to the top. I know it's boring but it works. Okay? And then your main navigation is terrific. You have a home, you have the book which is going to have to change to books at the top and one of those books will be your new one. You have share the book, which is a great idea, you have blog, the podcast, resources, about KJ Dell'Antonia, and media, which are all great. So I actually wonder if about KJ Dell'Antonia and media couldn't become one thing if you wanted them to be. There's nothing wrong with there being two. So people get tunnel vision and let's say somebody wants to book you on The Today Show for your new book. So one of these things should say contact, because people get tunnel vision and I'm sure your contact information is here. But I've been like half asleep, needing coffee, and not spotting it on a website, and you really don't want that to happen to you. So, contact should always be one of those things. And also, if you did dispense with your pop-up and you're leaving that that way, then the thing on the far right should be subscribe. And that can hop right to that page you showed me a second ago, the follow KJ page, but it should be there. Yeah, so we're doing great. Now, if you scroll down on KJ's front page you do get her most recent book before this new one. Oh, okay, I would've put the bio links right here, but you have them fairly close. So that's all good. And then you could also have, instead of this got a book club thing (not that there's anything wrong with it) an email signup here, as well. So I would like to have one up in the main nav and then here on the scrolly scrolly front page. So the reason that websites got scrolly scrolly is because of phones.KJ (14:01):Let's have a look at it scrolling on my phone. So on the website you see things laid out, like you see the book cover and then to the right you see the text about the book. On the mobile, you see the book cover and then you scroll down and you see the text about the book, and then you scroll down and you'll see the by the book in a vertical list.Sarina (14:25):So the buttons are horizontal on the laptop and they're vertical on the phone. And that's because you have a properly responsive website. Now, there are some authors who had their websites built more than 10 years ago, and the site still looks good when you pull it up on the computer. But if you pull it up on the phone, it's quite broken. And here's the reason that's not good. Google will punish you. They promote (in their search rankings) sites that perform on a mobile device and they sort of demote sites that don't. And you don't want to be demoted by Google. You know that old joke like, where's the best place to hide a dead body? On the seventh page of the Google search result. Okay, so don't be that dead body.KJ (15:21):So, but it's okay to have the scrolly scrolly first page is what I'm hearing. So the fact that if you just keep scrolling, you just get stuff, after stuff, after stuff is fine. It's just that maybe the stuff is not in the right order.Sarina (15:38):Well, your stuff was in a decent order. It's like the New York Times - you know, above the fold, below the fold. So here's the thing, when I'm helping an author with a website, I send a questionnaire. And these are the questions on the questionnaire. Which author websites in your own genre do you like best? Cause that's not a bad place to get inspiration; to take a shortcut to figure out what other people are doing. Right?KJ (16:06):That's how we made our podcast. There's a podcast, it's called Hurry Slowly. I love her and I love the design of her website. And I basically was just like, this really looks great. I'm going to make ours look pretty much just like this and it is. Thank you very much, Jocelyn Keighley.Sarina (16:26):Then the second question, the colors on your site will be chosen to compliment your cover art, but please tell me what colors do you not like and what are you hoping to see? And so with you, you have a lot of colors between your two books, but they compliment each other and that's just where you know we would go.KJ (16:41):Yeah, we're going to lose the pink-iness of this theme and shift it.Sarina (16:47):And shift it to highlight the yellow. And then it will look right. So then, one of the hardest decisions is what do you want your visitors to see first when they arrive on your site. In other words, the most valuable real estate should be allocated to which of the following? And these four choices cover almost everybody. So choice one - your newest cover art and a blurb quote, which is never a bad choice. So maybe you have that cover because you want readers to bond with it immediately. And you have a very short blurb quote, like the best little bit of something that somebody said. And then a button that says 'Read more' so you can put that person right onto that book's page. So that's always a good decision if you have a book coming out. Then choice two - a view of all of your covers, like an art gallery. Like if you have an extensive backlist and you want readers of your most recent book. Cause what if someone arrives on your site with a question, what else did she write? So that's the one click thing. And in your case we would have it in a dropdown menu probably cause the art gallery doesn't really work for you. So choice three - your newest blog post. So this is usually not the right choice for my clients, but it could be if you are a very active blogger and your blogging was related to the book you were trying to sell. Then that might work. And the last choice I have here - is a book representing each of your various series.KJ (18:18):And that's what yours looks like.Sarina (18:20):Yes. And the websites that have the most content on them are the biggest challenge. Because when we have that question - what question did the person arrive with? The more books you have, the more varied that question could be. Like what's next and this or that series, which audio book did I not listen to? You know, the questions get more complicated with the more books someone has in their catalog.KJ (18:44):Yeah. I don't think that there are that many questions you're going to come to my website looking for an answer to. I guess a peculiarity of my website is that I have these resources. And they are parenting resources. You can get holiday survival guides, you can get an ebook about homework, you can get the 10 mantras for happier parents. I mean, I have quite a few of them. Most fiction readers aren't going to be here coming after these things. But my parenting book is also coming out in paperback. So some people will be coming out for them and sometimes I will be talking about them, so it's a little more complicated.Sarina (19:28):I wonder if your website shouldn't have two book covers sort of facing each other on the front of it. With The Chicken Sisters on the left and The Happier Parent on the right. And it's basically like, people make a grand choice the minute they arrive at your website because they're probably there for what topic. And then you would sort of move the person on to the page that deals with that and your resources might be down at the scrolly scrolly bottom of the parenting book.KJ (19:56):And right now the resources require you to add your email and they might as well continue to require you give your email. That seems like a good idea although in terms of my personal ability to adjust this website, hopefully I can pull it off. I've done them. Somebody else did this one. I don't have the money to have them go back in and fix it. I might get somebody else. But see on this page your name is at the top, not in the middle. So you just need to duplicate a page like this. You're right. So what I can do is abandon the current - just to get a little bit into the weeds, but you might be in my position too - is abandon the current. So right now, when you go to kjdellantonia.com it's actually not pointing to what's called home here. It's pointing to the book. So I can pick anywhere. So you can pick anywhere for you know, u.com to point to. I mean home is probably not a necessary piece of it. Okay. Like you said, I can do some redesigning here.Sarina (21:14):And you know, as you move through the process of pre-launch, to the book launch, to after the launch, your needs change a little bit. I am accustomed to people who come back once a year to have their website gussied up for their new book. One thing I would like to mention for any listeners who are considering paying to have a website done is please don't hire someone who wants you to pay them on a monthly basis forever. This used to be the way it was done. And there are still some people out there who are paying for a website which is static and they're just paying to have it hosted cause they're stuck. And you don't have to do that. You can pay someone to design a thing and to set up the hosting for you, but then you have to have the keys, you know?KJ (22:10):So part of your design process, and it was part of mine, should be the person walking you through the most basic changes that you might want to make on your website. So, to change the pictures, to change the pop-up, to change where the homepage points, you should know how to do those small things. And I do, it's more that I think they used something called Bakery Builder to build this. And it's not my more familiar thing. I can do it. And I will say, you can find that, just ask around. Ask your author friends for who has designed their website but do ask around, because I also have a friend who's been working on designing her website with her web designer for let's see, since August. Yeah. The person is really slow and she called me fairly recently and was like, 'Is this normal?' And I was like, 'No, absolutely not.' Of course, this friend also draws a picture of what she wants it to look like and then sends that to the web designer. So the web designer may also be a little frustrated. There may be fault on both sides, but I don't think so. I think it just should not be taking anywhere near this long. It's crazy. Somebody should be able to get you rolling fairly quickly.Sarina (23:39):And also just to have the ability to say when it will be done.KJ (23:45):Alright. What's next?Sarina (23:47):Well, if you really like working with your website, there are so many things you can do to help guide your author destiny using your own website. For example, you can give away a free book in exchange for an email signup. So the parts of my website that you can see when you just navigate to Sarinabowen.com is like just the tip of that iceberg because I have lots of other hidden content there that is serving special purposes for me. And the more comfortable you are touching your own website and making pages, the more fun you can have with that. So during launch week, I usually have a contest where people enter it by sharing the book. Now, not every reader of my books is interested in entering the giveaway and sharing the cover, and that's fine. But for that core of people who is really interested in helping me promote it (for whatever reason) I have a contest on a hidden page in my website where you enter the link of where you shared it, and you put in your name, and the winner gets a $25 gift card or something. So there's all kinds of things you can run off of your own website that are more controllable than social media. And if you think about Facebook, which we all basically have to use when we promote a book, it's ugly and you can't make a post do what you want. You can't make it have a button. It's just not a friendly, friendly place in the world. And when you become a little more comfortable with using your own site, you suddenly figure out how much you can do.KJ (25:34):I think a lot of people who have a website don't realize that you can have pages on your website that aren't immediately visible to every visitor to your website. And it's not that they're hidden. It's not that someone who typed you know, KJDellantonia.com/potatocakes wouldn't get to the potato cakes page, but who's gonna do that? And it's not in your menu. So you can have, you can have a hundred potato cake pages or whatever. And I think even I forget that sometimes.Sarina (26:13):So if you're doing an event in Chicago, you could have kjdellantonia.com/chicago if there was something, a resource there that you wanted those people to have.KJ (26:20):And if you want to, you can buy you can buy a special URL. Like you can create a page within your own website. So it's kjdellantonia.com/potato cakes. But instead you buy the website you know, potato lovers.com and then you just point it, you don't create a website for potatocakelovers.com. You just point it to that page on your website. So there's all kinds of playful things. So for example, this follow KJ link, I just own that and I just point it to different things. Right now it's actually pointed to the Flodesk, which is the email software that I used to create my emails. But it used to be pointed to a page within my website. And before that it was pointed to a Mailchimp page. I can point that wherever I want to.Sarina (27:08):Right. And you actually bring up a really good point, which is it's usually better to point your signup at your own website. Like you have this capacity to point at different places which protects you. But I have a friend who can never leave MailChimp because she has the MailChimp signup link in the back of a 40 book backlist. So she's stuck there at their new higher prices because she can't go and change. She literally can't, because the people that bought that book before now and they read it and click on that link are going to her old spot.KJ (27:50):Yeah, no she's stuck. I remember you telling me about that cause I had kind of fallen into that cause I pointed something that I couldn't unpoint because I forgot things.Sarina (28:01):So I use a service called Genius Links and it's a page short linker, but you can change the destination link of absolutely anything.KJ (28:13):That is very nice because you can't do that with tinyurl.com.Sarina (28:17):Right. So Genius Links is great. There are probably others. I believe smartURL allows you to change the ultimate destination. But the other thing that Genius does (it does several things well, actually) it also points people to the Amazon store of their geographical location. So I can make one Amazon link, but it's a Genius link and if that person is in France, it will take them to Amazon.Fr. And the other thing it does (it pays for itself) is that if you have affiliate accounts at Amazon, Apple, Google, Kobo, (those are the ones that come to mind) you put that information into Genius and it just adds it to every single link. And that is very helpful to me as well. Yeah, not Kobo actually. But anyway, there's lots of ways. So, I just got a check from Apple Affiliates for 500 bucks, which I'm sure paid for my entire year's worth of Genius linking. So it's not just this added expense, but it can actually put money in your pocket.KJ (29:30):So, what's next? Should we look at anything else on my thing specifically?Sarina (29:36):I think your work is cut out for you in a way that is quite doable. You're gonna change some colors around.KJ (29:45):I'm going to just have fewer things up here at the top, I think. There's already some chickens so I'm partly set.Sarina (29:52):You're going to get both of those books on the front page and probably lose some more personal pictures because they won't make as much sense to your novel.KJ (30:02):So I'm just going to abandon some of these pages. I'm just going to make a new page - a new landing page.Sarina (30:12):Just like if you were going to redo chapter four of your work in progress, you wouldn't delete chapter four, you copy it, and tinker until we're satisfied. So this will be the same.KJ (30:23):Yup. That's my plan. Any other thoughts for people as they embark on either changing or creating their own websites?Sarina (30:32):I would look into the Authors Guild if you're really hesitant to play with websites. I would look into Squarespace if you're slightly more adventurous. I dislike WordPress with the fire of a thousand suns, so I can't in good conscience recommend it. Although lots of people like it, I'm not a fan of Wix. Usually the platforms that have a free option look kind of...I don't know, but I don't like them. But one free option that is, you know at least more user friendly is Blogger. Like you can still make a website at Google and it is what it is, but if you need a landing spot and you have no funds to devote to that at this point then there are ways to make happen.KJ (31:26):I'm trying to think if there's anything else we should say about websites before we move on. You should have one.Sarina (31:35):You should have one. It won't sell your book, though. It's great to be find-able and to help you answer questions.KJ (31:45):I wanted to talk about the whole, should I have a blog page? Not me personally, but as a general rule. If a blog feels like a like a mandatory additional task to you, then my thought for you is no, you don't really need to. Cause there's nothing worse than clicking on someone's blog page and seeing three entries from 2016.Sarina (32:11):Right. Well the other thing is you can call it news. And you can just put something there three times a year when you have news. Like, here's my new cover. And the nice thing about having that there is that it's also then you can put the link to that news on Facebook instead of typing the news into Facebook.KJ (32:33):And the other nice thing is that typically if you use the blog software of whatever you are creating, that is designed to be easily updatable. So if you use that for your news, it's designed so that you could just pop in and be like, 'I'll be in Chicago.' And that's it. You don't have to sort of change something that feels more set on your page. So there's reasons to use that software, but maybe not to call it blog.Sarina (33:03):Yeah. It used to be, like 15 years ago. Every agent would say you have to blog. But that's just not true anymore. People consume their news differently.KJ (33:39):The first decision is going to be to go in here, put the two book covers up and close off everything else while I revise it. Basically I'm going to just do that. So if anyone comes in the meantime, there are two book covers, there are links to the books and I'm playing around in the background.Sarina (33:58):Right. And when you link your book, you should do a few vendors. Cause nobody wants to live in a world where Amazon is the only store. No. And we do have that new one.KJ (34:12):What's it called again? I can't remember.Sarina (34:17):Is it BookShop?KJ (34:17):Maybe...Sarina (34:18):We're going to find this and put it in the show notes.KJ (34:20):Yeah, because it's important. Yeah, we've been linking to Indiebound, but it's changing. The booksellers association is creating a new way for authors to link to an Indie supporting platform, which can help you sell books. Cause I will say Indiebound affiliate linking is agonizingly painful (as the person who does it). And also, you listeners typically don't end up buying the book that way. And I get it. But I could see why you're not buying it on Indiebound, but we don't want to link to Amazon because while we're all buying stuff from Amazon, we don't want them to rule the world.Sarina (35:17):So bookshop.org is the new storefront and it's new, new, new, like it just launched within the last four weeks. And they're going to take some of the friction of buying from Indiebound away. So give bookshop.org a look and they also have an affiliate program, but every book that is purchased on here kicks profit into a fund, which is divided among the member bookstores, which is most independent bookstores.KJ (35:48):And the cool thing that they're doing is helping those independent bookstores set up their own websites. So this doesn't really apply to us, but it's kind of neat. I'm pleased, I'm delighted that it's out there.Sarina (35:59):After I read about it, I thought, Oh my goodness, this should not have taken so long.KJ (36:06):Now we got to figure out what we've been reading.Sarina (36:08):Oh, I know. I'm ready. Well, yesterday I opened an envelope and discovered a copy of Chasing Cassandra by Lisa Kleypas inside, which means that at some point I pre-ordered it and I never preorder anything, but I love this author so much and she has a new novel about once a year, which is just about right because if she had more of them, I would never get anything done because she is my queen. She is a romance author, her series is set in the Victorian era, actually in England. But she's so skillful with characters and just so amazing with dialogue that I have to take a few deep breaths after I finish her book and go look at my poor excuse for a book afterwards.KJ (36:59):I think everybody has somebody that is like that. So I have just finished Minor Dramas and Other Catastrophes by Kathleen West. I don't think I've mentioned it on the podcast yet, but I loved it. If you liked The Gifted School, if you have liked books by Tom Perrotta, basically if books set in hothouse schools (public, not boarding schools, that's a different genre) but books set in a hothouse schools full of crazy parents are something that you enjoy (and I do) then this is one for you. It's a really fun story of a dedicated teacher who's a little bit too too intense about teaching her students about the social evils of the world and how the parents around her react to that. It just fun, it's a weekend read, it's entertaining, it's smart, the characters are great. I think you'll enjoy it. So that's Minor Dramas and Other Catastrophes from Kathleen West. Alright, that is our podcast, but before we shut down, let me please remind you to head out to Facebook if you can stand it and join our Facebook group where we don't talk about any of the things that you avoid Facebook for. Instead, we talk about all things writing related, and writerly questions, and just about anything you can get it answered. If you want to find the show notes and the screenshots from the website that we're talking about that's amwritingpodcast.com, which is also where you can find links to support the podcast if you'd like to with a small donation and supporters of the podcast get (pretty much weekly) top fives and small mini podcasts, five minute long shorts, little bits of advice from one of us to all of you that drop right into your podcast player once you get it set up, you don't have to go somewhere special to listen. I think that's cool. That's it. Now you can take us out.Sarina (39:35):Until next week, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Does it matter if people eat early or eat late? Does it matter when they’re fasting windows are? Could they eat in the morning and then fast and not eat dinner? I think that it's really important to kind of change it up, like I said, every once in a while I'll have breakfast and lunch. Sometimes I'll have lunch and dinner. I think it's important to kind of mix it up a little bit, to kind of give your body and sometimes throw in some eight-hour. If you're used to doing eight-hour fast, sometimes do an eight hour fast, then turn it around and do a one hour fast- by that I mean, a one-hour eating window, a 24 hour fast. So just kind of really changing it up, I think works really well if you're trying to lose weight. So I guess the biggest thing is what's your goal? Are you trying to lose weight? Are you trying to have autophagy or trying to heal your body? But I still think about changing it up every once in a while. It's kind of like going to the gym. If you go to the gym and you're doing the exact same thing all the time, your body gets used to it.   Check out the FASTING RESET SUMMIT HERE: https://fastingresetsummit.com/   Listen to the new audiobook as a podcast HERE: https://chantelrayway.com/purchase-audio-book/   Check out the Amazon Page HERE: https://www.amazon.com/shop/intermittentfastingthechantelrayway     Check out these things I LOVE:   https://chantelrayway.com/vitaminc/   https://chantelrayway.com/wine/   https://chantelrayway.com/freerecipe/   https://chantelrayway.com/energybits   Get the audiobook & e-book bundle of Chantel's 2nd edition to Waist Away The Chantel Ray Way at a REDUCED price HERE!   Connect with us on Social Media YouTube Channel Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCteFjiVaY6n0SOAixcyZbWA Like us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/TheChantelRayWay     Things we love: https://chantelrayway.com/things-i-love-2/  Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheChantelRayWay   This podcast is a SIMPRONTO MEDIA production.   ***As always, this podcast is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please consult with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle.***

How can you utilize the Internet with your blog and website content to attract prospects and grow your property management business?  Today, I am talking to John Ray, formerly of Inspect & Cloud. John decided to join the DoorGrow team to help entrepreneurs align with a higher purpose through transparency to grow revenue and attract new customers. You’ll Learn... [02:45] Bromance: Similar passion, vision, and success for property management. [08:50] Anti-SEO? Merging of minds and skill sets to increase customer base. [11:16] What is property management? Lack of name recognition and understanding. [12:15] Lead Gen: What clients want vs. what they actually need from marketers. [15:13] Digital Marketing: Ancillary to foundational basics of a business. [15:35] Purpose of Seed Program: Clients not quite ready for digital marketing solutions. [18:17] SEO and Pay-Per-Click (PPC): Getting the cart before the horse. [18:24] What makes marketing work? Storytelling. Do or say something interesting. [19:07] Hook, Line, and Resonance: Shifting away from SEO the right way.  [21:48] Blue Ocean Concept: Opportunities for professional property management. [27:35] FAQs: How do you respond? Are you a property management expert/authority? [30:02] Quality vs. Quantity: Add value, not noise. Google’s goal is to please people. Tweetables Every marketer sells what’s easy. Digital Marketing: Ancillary to foundational basics of a business. Forget cold calls; trust is what closes deals. SEO and PPC: Putting the cart before the horse.  Resources DGS 27: Inspect & Cloud: Inspection Software For Property Managers  Inspect & Cloud DoorGrow Seed Program DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowLive DoorGrow Website Score Quiz DoorGrow Cold Leads Calculator Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. I've got a very special guest today. He's been on the show before. Jon Ray. Jon, welcome. Jon: Hey, thanks for having me. We're finally doing a DoorGrow Jon Ray-Jason podcast again. I'm really excited to share some of the things that we're going to talk about on how to best utilize the internet, content on your blog, in your website, and some of the things that you can really do to dial in the way that you're attracting prospects on your website using SEO. Also, just to talk about how fun it has been working for DoorGrow and joining the team. Jason: All right. Let's take a step back. I had you on the podcast, and we hit it off right away. We were joking before, we're having fun afterwards. We have little conversations here and there. We talk about random crazy stuff. Then, for a little while, we started meeting just as entrepreneurial friends hanging out like on Fridays or something. We were just setting a time to chat.  You've joined the team here at DoorGrow, but you came to me and reached out at one point. I was thinking about something at the back of my head. I was thinking, "Man, it'd be so cool if Jon and I work together. It'll be so awesome to have him on the team." Then you reached out. Why don't you tell your side? Jon: Yeah. Part of my purpose is helping entrepreneurs figure out how to align themselves with higher purpose and use transparency in their business as a way to grow their revenue and attract more customers. My why and my purpose was really aligned with your why and your purpose. To connect some of the dots of my history, I've been an entrepreneurial consultant in the digital marketing space for over 15 years now. I went and worked for Google for a few years. I was helping run their global field marketing team.  A business partner friend of mine started a SaaS product in the property management space called Inspect & Cloud, which is a digital inspection tool that helps you determine how much security deposit to give back and make sure that your maintenance team and your property owners have clear communication with you. That was birth out of this marriage. In my early 20s, I was a realtor and property manager. I was one of the people who had to go out and file eviction on people. This was over 15 years ago. When I had to go and file eviction on somebody, that meant that I have to drive up to the storage unit. I had to go through hundreds of file cabinets and files and hope that we had an inventory movement condition form, that we still had a copy of their lease, that wasn't just stained in coffee and doughnut crumbs. Sometimes I meant moving like six or seven file cabinets out-of-the-way, so I can get to the one that actually had the information I needed, so that I can go and file eviction on somebody who had been in the property for three or four years. We just didn't have good access to those records.  When I left the real estate space to go work for Google, I still was in contact with a lot of these people. One of these people is Gilbert Quinones who was my business partner in Inspect & Cloud. He's still successfully running Inspect & Cloud (inspectandcloud.com, if you want to check that out). The idea with Inspect & Cloud was we've got to solve the frustration of milling this status of a property and being able to effectively get that information when we need it. I married everything that I have learned at Google, doing digital marketing with the experience that I've had in the property management world. Those things joined together to become Inspect & Cloud.  We were very successful in growing that. I met a lot of property managers and really got inside the head of trajectory that property management was going. There were so many opportunities for property managers to dominate their local market because nobody was doing anything that I felt was remarkable. When I decided to walk away as an active owner-operator in Inspect & Cloud, to explore some personal things that I was interested—mostly coaching at a more philosophical and spiritual level. Really aligning businesses with purpose is what I wanted.  I was looking for methods that would pair traditional marketing and digital marketing with some kind of unique purpose that made a business remarkable. Ever since we've done our interview, it was so obvious to me that you were super passionate about what you're doing. You're seeing a lot of success with your seed program, growing people's businesses, and helping them align with purpose, given so much overlapping our wheelhouses, and in the way we wanted to consult with businesses.  I'm a builder. I'm somebody who can build businesses, run a team, handle operations, implement marketing, and jump on sales calls. I do my best work when I'm aligned with a visionary and with somebody who's helping create the intellectual property that then I could go and distribute. I kept seeing what you were doing, tuning into your podcast in the background. We started meeting on Zoom. It just seems like our two historical paths were meeting at this point that was better suited with us working together because I think we compliment each other really well. Without going into more about this bromance, I thought that the most effective way that you and I could continue to deliver value to property managers and conscious entrepreneurs was for us to partner and capitalize on each other's strengths. We could really grow DoorGrow to a whole new level. I think we're doing that. It's been really fun to talk to a lot of seed hackers, to be on the sales calls, to go through the seed program myself, and really have a whole understanding for the first time.  I was always somebody out here looking in and being, "Well, how much more value could this program really have?" Then I got to actually go through it. I was like, "Oh, this is so much more aligned than I ever even thought." I think that has helped me in my genius zone since I've been working with you because I'm able to draw all of these other experiences that I've had working with entrepreneurs over the last 15 years and channel it through the lens of what you've created in the seed program. A big part of that was me bringing some of my skill set in, which as I was working for Google and in this past 15 years of digital marketing consulting, I've become an expert on Search Engine Optimization, and building really solid content campaigns that drive revenue, increase attention, and increase your customer base.  I think that for property managers, SEO's is an interesting strategy that they can implement. I think that a lot of people think that you're anti-SEO. I thought that would be interesting for us to have a conversation and talk about each of our perspectives—why I'm really bullish on SEO and why you're (at least publicly) seemed to be more bearish on SEO. Maybe we can come to a merging of the minds on that. Jason: Yeah, we'll chat about that. I'm not really a builder. I help other people build their companies, but it's through my innovation that I [...]. I'm an innovator. I love sitting down, being the mad professor. I didn't want to be the guy who's been doing videos or in the foreground. I have business coaches who were like, "Jason, if you're not going to do it, nobody's going to do it. You got to do it." They pushed me into that space and I've gotten a lot more comfortable on that. Even still, it's really nice to have somebody coming on the team that I trust to understand the vision behind what I want to do, and allow me the space to innovate and create new stuff. Now that I have you on the team, I'm really excited about the new stuff that DoorGrow's going to be doing to solve property management problems here in the future. I've got some cool ideas and now I can start to focus on those, work on those, and we get along really well. We just have so much fun together. A lot of people do think I'm anti-SEO. In the past, I love throwing stones at different things that I think are causing challenges in the industry. Because we were focused on SEO—we did pay-per-click management, and we're focused on the search engines in the beginning—the challenge was, this is an industry (I saw) that has very little name recognition. It's an industry that has very little understanding in public opinion as to what property management is or what a property manager does. Random people that have rental properties just weren't looking for property management. It's what seemed to be the situation. The challenge was we just had clients that would play that game, and they found the trap of some of the marketing agencies. Every marketer sells what's easy. It's very easy if people still come to us. It's very easy if somebody comes to us and says, "Hey, I want SEO, I want pay-per-click, I want content marketing, I want social media marketing." This is what everybody says you're supposed to be doing online. "I want pay-per-leads."  These are the things people were looking for. Sometimes the confusion people have about DoorGrow is like, "What do you guys do if it's not those things?" That's all people know what to do, is what marketers are telling them. Why? Because that's what marketers sell. They're selling it. They're not doing it because they're evil. They're doing it because that's what customers are asking them for. Maybe they're in some ways smarter than me. This is what the client is saying, "I want." Even though my perception is, "It's not working. It's not working for a lot of these companies."  The challenge I saw is that if the companies weren't at least 200–400 doors, it didn't even make sense to be running ad campaigns, getting all these cold leads, and trying to take the time to do it. Really, there should be part-time sales people that only have 10–15 hours a week to focus on leads. If they're getting these leads that are colder, they weren't even answering their phones. The lead's only good for maybe 5–10 minutes a lot of times. Then the close rate or conversion rate dropped significantly. The challenge was when we're running ad campaigns and doing these things for clients, they weren't capitalizing on the leads. And because they didn't have the bandwidth, they weren't answering the phone calls. Usually, companies have to be about 200–400 doors minimum, they needed a full-time BDM, they needed that just to do pay-per-click on the SEO side. If they're in a big city market and it's super competitive, maybe there's more search volume, even still property management's very little search line. No matter how big the market is, there are very few people looking. It felt dishonest or disingenuous to sell it to clients just because we can make money. All the time I started realizing, it's not effective. I started because I've talked to thousands of property managers. We literally have hundreds of clients right now that are active. I get to see inside their business. They come and ask me for help, and they ask me for coaching. I would occasionally run into a client doing something unique. They come to me and say, "Oh, yeah. We've been in business for three years. We're at 300 doors." "That's amazing. How did you do that?" Every now and then I would notice an exception. I will pay attention to these things. I will get super curious and I'll ask questions. Over time, I suddenly noticed things that were working, and it wasn't the digital marketing stuff that they were doing. Now, that doesn't mean that if you don't do the foundational basics, that it wouldn't make sense to then shift and start doing more. The analogy I would typically use with clients once I understood this, I would say, it's just like in bodybuilding. You can go get creatine, glutamine, supplements, protein powders and whatever, but if you're not getting sleep and you're not eating food, even though you're working out, you're not going to get great results because those things are ancillary.  That's how I view a lot of digital marketing. It's ancillary to the foundational basics that are involved in a business. The sales pipeline and word-of-mouth is significantly impacted by your brand, your website, your reputation, your sales process, all these things that we focus on in seed programs. That's why I built the seed program to shore up these leaks. The ironic thing is I originally built the seed program because clients weren't ready for the digital marketing stuff that I wanted to sell. They weren't ready. I was like, "Let's get them ready. I'll create a program that once they do it, they'll be ready for all this digital marketing stuff. They'll want to do cold lead advertising and marketing with us. Then we'll make more money." If there weren't enough companies that can capitalize on it and if they're going to try doing it and fail and quit, I'm going to create a program that gets them ready to have this stuff. So, I built out my first iteration called the SeedPackage of the seed program. I created this and clients get these amazing results. The crazy side effect of it was when they went through, and we shored up all these trust leaks that existed in their sales pipeline because trust is what closes deals, they didn't need or want cold leads anymore. It didn't do what I wanted to do. It didn't get us more marketing clients to actually prevent them from meeting it at all. Even though they were the ones that most likely to be able to use it now. But they didn't need it because they're getting so many warm leads and warm leads the closer is so much higher.  Then I started putting up this message like, "SEO won't save you." A lot of people view SEO as savior. They thought, "If I could just get the top spot on Google, all my hopes and dreams for my property management business would come true." It's just like playing the lottery or gambling. If I just get that one jackpot, I'll have everything that I need financially. It really is. It's like the SEO lottery. They would play the lottery and I kept getting stories of losers coming to me from other property management marketing companies. They were sad, they were upset, they've done a one-year contract of doing uncomfortable videos, doing SEO, doing content marketing stuff, and they didn't have doors to show for it. They were really, really frustrated. They didn't trust me. There was a distrust in all marketing in general because they've been burned. I think a lot of property managers have been burned because it's very easy for people to sell what people don't need if they're asking for it. I felt like it was unethical. Jon: Yeah. It's definitely a space where there's a spectrum of charlatans and all the way to people who are in integrity and really good at SEO. I think everything that you're saying is right in many ways. SEO and pay-per-click is getting the cart before the horse.  From a fundamental level, what makes marketing work is really great storytelling. You have to be doing and saying something that is interesting or remarkable for any amplification of that message to convert. What people think they need to do is just hire somebody to write four articles a month, and eventually they're going to be on page one of Google. That's the lie of digital marketing and SEO.  I'm going to give some really practical tips and advice for any property manager that wants to start doing an effective in-house SEO campaign. I promise that before the end of this podcast, we'll give you some action items that you can walk away, so that you can start shifting away SEO in the right way. What happens is when you first start, especially if you're in new business or never done any type of optimization on your website, you're likely showing up on page 8, 9, or 10, or not even being indexed by Google. The way that people search the web is they type in "property management Austin Texas."  Then they open the first 10 links on page one of Google in 10 different tabs. Then they quickly scan each of those pages looking for something that feels like resonance to them. They're looking for some kind of a hook that says, "That's the person I want to work with."  If you haven't effectively created that hook for your business, then no SEO is going to convert for you even if you're in page 1 because the page 10 spot is going to convert better than the page 1 spot if the page 10 spot has a better story and is creating more interesting trust indicators on the website. What that comes down to is making sure that you have a really solid reputation in your local community—that has a lot to do in online reviews—then making sure you're showing up as a thought leader and an authority in your local space. That means that you actually have to be an authority or bring an authority onto your team. You have to learn how to effectively communicate that authority.  SEO can be a really good delivery mechanism for thought leadership and authority but only if you already have those things and are showing up in your community as that. One of the things that I always resonated with the way that you approach digital marketing and SEO—it's the things I always have reached in my own consulting practice—is that you have to learn how to tell an effective brand story before you spend any money on any type of amplification of that.  Jason: You're right. SEO and [...] Google's [...]. It's really hard to dethrone somebody that's been there for 10–20 years. It can be really expensive, it can be really time costly, and a lot of these property managers starting out, that maybe not the game they should play. You're right. There are companies with the top spot in Google right now, due to the way the market is right now, they’re losing more doors than they're getting on due to the sell off.  It's really difficult to outpace the market when the market shifts with marketing. Yet, there's this huge blue ocean of potential property management clients that are not aware of property management yet, of real estate investors, people that run rental properties. We see only in the single family residential only maybe 30% are professionally managed versus Australia which is 80%. There are all these opportunities, yet people are fighting over the scraps that fall off my client's table. They're not focused on the word-of-mouth. They're not focused on networking. They're not focused on community marketing, going out, connecting with that blue ocean, establishing rapports, building trust, and being an authority. They're focused on, "I'm just going to pay a company to just shotgun for leads and hope I get something," then you're getting the coldest, most price-sensitive worst stuff, that are what’s leftover at the end of the sell cycle, after word-of-mouth capture the good stuff. Jon: Yeah. When you talk about the blue ocean, I want to unpack that a little bit. I think that's an important concept because when you're paying for leads or when you're trying to SEO your website to be able to compete for search terms, you're only competing for a very small sliver of the overall pie that is available. Only maybe 10%–15%, depending on your local market of property owners that are open to finding a manager, are actively searching at any given moment. That means that 85%–90% of the potential market place isn't actively searching. You wouldn't be able to track those people through PPC or SEO anyway.  I think there's a misconception that if you rank on page one of Google that you're going to have access to all of the available leads out there. Actually, the larger slice of the pie that's available in the property management industry, and really in any industry is the 85%-90% of people who would be open to some kind of service or some kind of value add, but they don't have enough pain to be actively searching for it. However, if someone they trust said, "Hey. You know, this person works with people like you or businesses like you. They're showing up in the community in a really interesting way right now. Maybe you should talk to them," that's a much easier handoff to somebody to make. That's why having a really strong community-driven purpose is an interesting foundational element to create that will then benefit you when you start to do an active SEO campaign or pay-per-click campaign.  If you don't have that powerful story that is going to create a resonance and the competitive advantage over the other 10 people that are in the 9 of their tabs that somebody has opened in their Internet Explorer or Google Chrome, then no amount of investment in the pay-per-click or SEO is going to be able to convert at a ratio that will make it valuable for you. That's why at DoorGrow and the advice I've always given when people come to me for SEO advice is, what's your story? How are you aligned with your community? How are you aligned with some purpose above and beyond just making money?  That comes back to good business planning. In the property management space and in a lot of service-based industries, people start as a solopreneur. They're not always thinking about the big picture. "Where is this business going up in the next 5–10 years?" They're just kind of nickel-and-diming trying to make enough where they can pay for their families' expenses. That puts them in the weeds and fires of the business, which doesn't allow them to show up as a visionary or even develop their authority in the community. They have no real competitive advantage. Because they're operating in the place of solopreneur scarcity, they're not closing at a conversion ratio that would warrant spending money on advertising or SEO. One of the things that SEO can be really good at doing is helping you create that community authority. You have to look at what you are actually an expert at. What a lot of people do, they hire somebody in another country, or they hire somebody who's just a generic content creator, who's good at writing but knows nothing about the property management industry. What does that person do? They pull up property management on Wikipedia. They rewrite some of those articles so that you have the right keyword density in your article. Ultimately, it's a big nothing burger because when somebody comes to that page, it creates no emotional resonance. Yeah, maybe you captured the click-through from Google, but they're going to immediately click back. That actually hurts your ranking. You always want to make sure that the SEO post that you are writing is providing genuine value to the person who lands on the page. Google will actually penalize you if you have content that ranks on page 1 of Google and somebody clicks through it, then it's not the answer to the question or it doesn't hold them on the page for longer than 90 seconds, if they click back, you're going to be penalized for that. The thing to think about as a property manager, when you're meeting with prospects, what are the most frequently asked questions that you get? How do you answer those questions in person? Sometimes I'll have people record the way that they answer certain objections or questions, and then transcribe those. That could be a good basis for a solid SEO article that starts to give the prospect value and sets you apart as an expert and an authority. Another really good piece of content is neighborhood-specific content. Everybody's focused on these macro keywords. If I'm in Austin, Texas, then the keyword that every property manager in Austin, Texas thinks that they want is "property management Austin." All the articles are targeted towards that macro keyword phrase. There's actually all kinds of what we call long tail phrases which would be like neighborhood phrases. In Austin, there's a neighborhood called Brentwood. You could write a post all about why Brentwood is an interesting place to live as a tenant, but as a property owner, how you serve the Brentwood community. That is going to be an easier term for you to rank for. You're going to be able to provide some actual expertise about how you manage properties in that specific neighborhood. You're going to be able to reference landmarks, grocery stores, and local venues that makes the property owner feel like you know what their property needs because you're familiar with the neighborhood. What that does is "property management Brentwood Austin '' is an easier keyword to rank for. It gives you SEO juice that then points up to the main keyword phrase that you want—that macro phrase of "property management Austin." You build out 50 neighborhood pages and those all start ranking well, you're going to rank for this macro phrase. But most people do it in reverse order. All their articles are these boring regurgitations of Wikipedia trying to rank for a macro term. They're providing no value. They're not ranking for any long tail keywords. Ultimately, their SEO investment nets them nothing because they're not tuned into how competitive the marketplace is. Jason: And it's just that noise instead of value. It's not having real value. One of the things I always said to clients for over a decade, my philosophy when it comes to Google is, "Google's goal is to please people. That's how it's able to sell ads." If your goal is to please people and help people, you're always in alignment with that. Now, what most people do is their goal is not to please people. It's to manipulate the search engine and the robots. If that's your goal, eventually, you're going to be penalized for that. That's going to be viewed as black hat. You might find the hack, somebody who has the hack that they're doing, where they're doing SEO on videos, and they've got 20 different company accounts. They're making them all, liking comments on each other's stuff. Google's smart. It's going to figure out that you've got a game going on. I had one property management company out in Atlanta. He had paid these guys in India to do backlinks. Any backlink was considered relevant. A backlink, for those listening, is a link to your website. So they would go out, scour the web, and find any website they could, directory they could, and they would put links to his website in Atlanta. Then Google realized people were playing that game, trying to manipulate the search engines again.  What they did is they started adding a quality score. They started gauging websites that are not reputable or not relevant and which ones are. Then they release an update. His site wasn't just down-ranked. It was removed from Google rankings all together because he had so many shady, [...] backlinks. Google said, "This site must be bad. It's dangerous to people." They pulled it down. It was like a sandbox. Jon: Yeah. One of the things on any consulting call that I have was somebody about SEO, very often that comes up. "What if I invest all this money in SEO and then Google decides to remove my site from search?" They're only going to do that if you're working against their terms of service and if you're not providing real value. Ultimately, like you said, they want Google to be the search engine that immediately takes you to the content that is most relevant to you. Their algorithm is always shifting to determine what the most valuable content is. That's why everything, even as they're moving to artificial intelligence, everything more and more, is being catered towards who is the thought leader and who's the authority in this local market place around this topic. The way that you identify yourself as that person is by having a stellar reputation with a lot of five star reviews, and then making sure that every single article that you write is providing value where if you were your customer, and you read that article, would you actually read it? Or would you immediately be like, "This is an SEO article"? That's a dead ringer. If you go to a website and the first word is bolded out, there's all these links linking to other pages, it's all keywords that are linked, and you're not actually answering the question that is in the user's head, then you're going to be devalued in the eyes of Google because if that person bounces off your website which means they clicked on Google to your website, they didn't see what they wanted, so then they clicked back to Google to go to a different website, that ultimately is not going to serve you.  You can spend a ton of money on SEO, and if it's not the right content, it can actually hurt your business and hurt your website. It's better to add one really high quality piece of content a month than it is to add 30 super low value pieces of content that don't help the user in some way. Jason: You just listened to the DoorGrow Show. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet, in the DoorGrow Club. Join your fellow DoorGrow hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead, content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow. At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today’s episode on our blog at doorgrow.com. To get notified of future events and news, subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

I think you'll agree with me when I say, it's essential to have a large organization and a ton more employees to be one of the industries included in the Inc 500, or is it? Well, it turns out that you don't really need to be that massive. In this episode, learn how Matt Laird changed the entire scope of the oil industry with just a simple step and an overhead of less than 10 to hit the Inc 500. ----- Automated Transcript Below: Dean Soto 0:01 Hey, this is Dean Soto, founder of freedominfiveminutes.com and prosulum.com, P-R-O-S-U-L-U-M.com and we're here again with another freedom in five minutes podcast episode. Today's topic is this, disrupting the oil industry with Matt Laird. That and more coming up. Cool! So today I have a very, very, very, very special guest. Someone who is near and dear to me and who is also completely disrupting a, an industry that is, for lack of a better word, extremely archaic, but still extremely profitable and brings in a lot of revenue. I'm here with Matt Laird from Camrock Oil & Supply. Matt, how are you doing my friend? Matt Laird 1:02 Man, life is good Dean. Thanks for having me. Dean Soto 1:04 Oh, no problem. It's, it's a long time coming I've, I've been wanting to interview Matt for quite some time, but I wanted things to be like perfect man. Always, I'm always like, okay, well I want it, I want, I want a lot of people to hear him. I wanted a lot of people to hear your story and, and what all the stuff that you've been able to do. And because it really is truly amazing what you're able to do right now. And but all that being said, how in the heck, to first tell us a little bit about yourself and what industry you're in and how did you end up being a part of the whole oil industry in general? Matt Laird 1:48 So, to start now with, with who I am. So, I'm a father of three beautiful daughters, from ages 16 down to five. Dean Soto 1:55 Nice. Matt Laird 1:56 Have an amazing wife, who's, who's from this part of the world which we'll get into why I'm here. But just to start out early so soon as I graduated out of high school and started looking for, for things to do, I found that I wasn't near as good at sports as I, as I had once thought. So I found the next best thing, so I found a drilling rig. So, basically, over the course of the next 20 years, I worked my way up into the drilling ranks. So I started at the bottom, rose about, worked my way all the way up to where I was a drilling consultant. I actually own the company who had several drilling consultants. So I was basically, my job was to manage the people who ran the entire drilling operation well. Really good money, really fun job. Basically, really hard job to raise a family. So when you wake up and you realize it for, for 19 years you've been away from home 300 days a year and nights. Dean Soto 3:02 Holy moly. Matt Laird 3:03 Basically, you have to find your way, right? So, about five years ago, we, we made some, some partners, started a business using Dave Ramsey's logic. We went to build the boat and get the boat close enough to the shore to step off and not make a huge jump. So we, we started a business in the lubrication and filtration business, industry. So, servicing the oil for was our original goal. We were, we're basically a full on, lubricant like motor oils and greases, full line lubricants and then filtrations, just being like your air filters and oil filters similar to what you would put on your car but in a little bit bigger scope. So that brings us up. We've had some really good successes over the last five years. Good enough that I was able to actually sell my consulting company and come on full time so that I'm home every night. If, if I'm not home at night is because I'm on vacation. So, that's where I'm at today so wherever you want to take it, it's yours. Dean Soto 4:12 So, for a little bit of background for those listening, I, so I always pride myself on making very fast decisions like five minutes decisions and, and doing things that will allow me to have more time or whatever, whatever it might be. Matt is on a whole another level. So, that was, that was definitely a, an amazing background. Now, one thing that people don't realize is that, that you, that the consulting side of things, you were making a lot of money which you said and you, like you said you were gone pretty much the entire year away from your family but you very quickly, given the data that you had and, and everything, you very quickly made that decision to let go of that whole entire thing which was bringing in a lot of revenue for you, you know? Matt Laird 5:07 It was, yeah, it was. It was a lot of money to walk away from but at some point, you had to realize what your family's worth. If I didn't make a decision really quickly, I would have just had a lot of money in a empty house. Dean Soto 5:22 I love it. Like, see this is, this is, so from here on out now that you're, you know, while you're listening to this, this, this is the type of man that Matt is and so just keep that in mind as we move forward through all of this. So, it's just absolutely amazing what he, what he and that just quick decision, literally it was like an overnight decision where he's like, I'm done. So it's, it's absolutely just inspiring. So all that being said, give me kind of the day to day with Camrock Oil & Supply and, and we'll talk about how you've been actually disrupting the industry. Like when you first built this business, like, like, what, what were some of likes, kind, kind of what's you in a typical day? Like, what are you servicing? What are you typically doing? Matt Laird 6:12 So early on in this business, we were just primarily a filtration company. So we just had a whole bunch of filters and a whole bunch of people that needed filters. So we've got really big trucks and we fill them up with filters. And we, we drove around and, and realized pretty quickly that those filters are mostly air and there wasn't enough margin, huge invoices but no margin. So we began to, to seek out something that was more profitable, that is more needed in the market that would fit really well with our filter company. So as we added the bulk lubricants, we were able to definitely get into a niche. So we're, we're one of our own, so there's not many small independent lubrication filtration company. So there is some small independent oil companies. And then there's some parts houses, there's not really a, a merger between the two of lubrication filtration. But once we've realized that these two works so well together, we're able to infiltrate these markets that the person who's selling just oil couldn't get into with a person that's just selling filters or truck parts getting into. So basically what we are is when we walk in the house, walk into a shop. We've got a full line of outside sales people who do excellent job at getting us into facilities. But when we walk in the door, we can pride ourselves to say that we're going to get the best service, you're going to get the best overall products because we're able to, to cover needs and niches that no one else can do. So, as far as Camrock as a business, we're a full outside sales. Full delivery business that covers all lubrication filtration. But as far as what I do every day, all I really do is just grow the business. So I spend approximately two hours a day working in the business, you know, about eight to ten hours working on the business. So basically, I pulled myself out of operations so that I can focus on going forward and moving the needle, disrupting the industry not just selling more cardboard boxes, actually finding a way to change the entire scope of the industry. Dean Soto 8:37 That's it, that, that so, so in this industry, because I remember you'd went to a conference not too long ago and you're like, holy crap, like it's, yeah, people tend, in your industry tend to be doing the exact same thing like what differentiates you from, say, your closest competitor with, what is like the big key factor that, that you're doing in this whole filtration and lubrication business that people, if they were if you know if the old school oil type were looking at you they'd be basically say, you know, that's impossible? Matt Laird 9:17 So basically, the way that this deal works is that I'm an old industry. I'm in an industry where there's no influx of new people because the cost and the, just the ability to get into this industry is so expensive and so time consuming. There's not really a big welcome party for new distributors in the market. So my closest competitor in the lubrication side does over a billion a year. So they're a huge, big company that's not nimble, that doesn't care about their quality, doesn't care about their personal services. They're more worried about how many gallons they can sell all these big accounts so, so with this big company growing bigger, and essentially just through acquisitions and mergers taking over all of the small companies, it's just leaving a huge gap for me to get in with a little better service. Maybe not even as well as good a price but just a better service of better customer relationship and a little more technology. Basically, at the point where I'm at now, if I could do something, you know, maybe I don't put my guys on a route, maybe me I go and get people their stuff when they need it coz I'm not worried about every single penny. I could charge a little more margin. And then on my filter side, in our truck parts as well. We've figured out ways through the market that we can offer a product at basically a more competitive price than, than what your auto parts stores can do because of the sheer volume that we do. So, in our market, we have two small auto parts stores, and one decently sized truck parts store. So, I do more in filtration sales per month than the three of those do combined. So, just in the sheer volume that I move in my filtration I'm able to use my 10 or 12 x buying power to push down the, the cost of the point where I'm competitive so that I can cover my entire market with lubrication filtration. So, for what, I do a little better on my lubrication side than what the competitor does as far as quality goes, but my price is slightly higher, but my pricing on the other filtration covers that gap. So it's basically, if you use me for, for all of these product lines that I offer, my price is competitive with what you're paying across the board, yet you're getting a far superior service. Dean Soto 12:05 Hmm, hmm. So that's, that's amazing. Because, because, essentially it's the choice between do, do I go with this big huge company to service all of the, the things that I need who doesn't care about me because I, you know, I'm just one of maybe thousands or one of maybe 10,000 accounts, and they just want to sell me stuff. And that's about it and take it or leave it. Or, I can get the same or better discount from you and know that I'm actually being taken care of. Like that to me is like a huge, huge thing, which has always been good for at least my business has been that ability to scale personal attention and the fact that you can with what you're doing compete with this billion dollar company who's your next biggest competitor. There's very, you have no other competitors, because the barriers to entry, and yet you're able to be small enough to give that, that scale personal attention. That's, that's huge. And do you see, like with your customers, you see a, do you see in them, like a, like appreciation of that? Matt Laird 13:30 So I mean, I would just assume that appreciation or voting is done with your checkbook. So in the, in the five years we've been in business, we've lost a few customers to mergers and acquisitions, but as far as retaining a customer, there's only two customers in the history of our entire company that have actually gone somewhere else. Dean Soto 13:52 Wow. Matt Laird 13:53 Though, of every customer I've ever sold a product to, I've only had two of the hundred or probably pretty high in the hundreds that have ever actually quit working, quit using me and went somewhere else. So I think that our, our culture and our customer focus in our pricing structure and everything else is really, once someone comes to us and learned the way we do things, and learns our culture and realize that we do care is not just something we sell from the street. They never leave. Not to this, up to this point, it's been scalable, so it was scalable at one customer, scalable at 60, scalable at 200. And we just continue to just push that culture into our salespeople. So everyone that touches my customer knows the culture, knows that it's our determination that they do right. And I also have several of my salespeople that, that will follow up and actually we'll cross pollinate between customers just to make sure that there's not any issue. Dean Soto 15:06 Wow. Dude, people would kill for that churn rate, man. The, I mean, most you know a lot of service businesses that you're looking at, 10 to 25%, you know, churn rate people leaving and, and for you to have you know below, below 2%? I mean, it depends on how many hundreds you have like that's a super low and super high, you know super high retention rate that, that a lot of companies would die for. Oh my gosh, that's, that's, that's absolutely amazing, dude. Like so, with like, without that being said this, so a lot of people would think, okay well yeah, well, it's because Matt is, you know, you know smaller company and, and yeah, you know smaller companies, you're able to have the the more personal attention and yada, yada and but, but one thing that people might not realize is that you actually recently hit the Inc 500, right? Matt Laird 16:12 We did we, we hit Inc 500. Number three in the state of Oklahoma. I believe it was 36 in the energy sector. Dean Soto 16:20 Wow. See, look at that. So, how in the heck man, how do you? I mean, I know because you, you follow, you know, books and thoughts like Jason Freed's and David Hannah Meyer Hanson's rework and a whole bunch of other really, really. Matt Laird 16:39 That rework is sitting on my desk right now. Dean Soto 16:40 Yeah, that's why I love you. So, like, you have to grow, right? These days, you know, contrary to popular belief, you know, or you know, I shouldn't say contrary to popular belief, but popular belief is that you have to be this in order to hit the Inc 500 at all, you have to be this huge organization with you know, hundreds of employees, you know how many hundreds of employees you have, man? Matt Laird 17:06 I have about three. Dean Soto 17:10 Not 300? Three employees, right? Matt Laird 17:12 No, no, I have three employees and then I have four outside sales that are, they're contracts that they have other, other lines that they sell other than just mine so, and then my wife and I. So there's essentially less than 10 people in the whole building and then I'm running two, one part-time and one full-time VSA that do all my background stuff, everything that nobody, nobody sees, I have VSAs doing it. Dean Soto 17:38 So cool, dude. Yeah, so then that's, that's, that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on is just how, how you are able to do all of that with such a small amount of overhead when it comes to at least payroll, you know. So what, so like, what one, how, how did you go about structuring that to where you know your next biggest competitor, I'm sure has way more employees than you do because most Inc 500 companies do have a ton more employees like, what, what was going through your mind? And how did you actually make it a reality to have such a small organization that's, that is able to deliver such value that you're able to hit the Inc 500? Matt Laird 18:28 Ok, so there's a lot of pivots along the way. But when we originally started the company with myself and two other partners, we started the company as an investment that we would oversee not as a business we would run day to day. Basically everything was put in place from day one that basically we started with The E-Myth Revisited, right? So the first employee was day one and that employee had to do this, this and this. And then as we grew, we're going to add another, we're gonna add another, we're gonna add another, that didn't work. So it didn't work at all. Basically, this was about three and a half to four years of me working my other job, and then putting in 40 to 50 hours a week on this job plus my business partners as well. I had three different times. I hired someone who was Six Sigma, or what's this? Had all the abbreviations in front of their name and basically, I hired three different people at three different times to try to grow the company. And I had zero success with any of them. So, every single time I would grow up to 8,10, 12 people, then I would go back and realize that this isn't working, that we're, we're losing money, that we're failing that, you know that this is not the path we need to be on. So there was three times In the growth of the five years that we actually ended up back with one employee. Dean Soto 20:04 Wow, wow. Matt Laird 20:06 And one sales person, other than myself. Dean Soto 20:09 Yeah. Matt Laird 20:11 But over the course, so what I finally realized was that, it's not the people, right? So the people that I hire aren't bad people. What I realized was that there's no way I can increase the, increase the ability of my company if I cannot get beyond two to three people, and my culture shift. So basically, that's where I realized that everything had to be documented. Everything has to be written down, checklist. Everything has to be repeated. So how do we, how do we go to a customer today? And we drop off their products and we throw them in the middle of the floor, and they're super upset and then the next day we go back and we put them all on the shelf. Well, that was happening at some point, right? So, maybe not that dramatic but there was, at one point there was no system. There was no follow up, there was no, there was no way that anybody other than my one delivery guy that's always been with me. Dean Soto 21:15 Yeah. Matt Laird 21:16 And my one employee that's always been with me in the office. So if those two people weren't doing it. If anybody else was doing it, they would get sloppy? Dean Soto 21:24 Yeah. Matt Laird 21:24 Well, I just realized that those people aren't training because they don't have any guidelines to train off of. Dean Soto 21:30 Yeah. Matt Laird 21:30 So I've trained them so they know. But it's just the carbon copy effect. And every time I get to the next person, it's lesser of a solid line. Dean Soto 21:39 Yeah. Matt Laird 21:39 And then I get to the next person, then it's a dotted line, and then I get to the next person, and the next person is costing me more money than they're making. So it's, it's basically, I went through this transition three different times and realize that in each of those times, I could have been well-rounded. I think the people would have probably done, done an excellent job, had my training been better. So basically, I was able to come in at that point using first I tried to do it myself, PowerPoint. Tried to build these processes. I spent hundred hours and got three processes documented maybe. It was a, it was definitely a terrible, terrible thing, but. Dean Soto 22:23 I know the feeling, dude. Matt Laird 22:25 Yeah, so then. So then after, Dean and I were talking and he was able to bring his guys in. Basically, it was pay-per-click on these processes and I would spend my day from 4pm until 5pm every day working on the one thing that I never wanted to do again. So whatever I did today between 4pm and 5pm, I didn't ever want to have to do it again and I wanted it to be done correct. So all I would do is, is follow Dean's programs. So basically jumped in, jump on Loom, record that process exactly like you would want it done. Because you, you have a system, your system may suck, but you have a system. So record your system exactly like it is on Loom every day, whatever that process is and I would email it to, to Dean and Dean finally got tired of me emailing him and then he gave me somebody else's email. But I, every day at the end of the day, between four and five, I would email my whatever that process was over to Dean and he would send to his guys. The next morning when I got back to the office. The next morning sometime, I would have a full process document that was just prim and proper. I would look through it very few times that I even have to correct anything on there which is perfect. And then I was able to use that as training. So I would basically start training my staff as I was growing. And then I lost the girl that was working for me, that was my bookkeeper/ receptionist. When I lost her, I decided to give the VSAs a try. And I was able to not only would have the VSAs do what I had primarily been doing, but also what she was doing. And then a few weeks later I lost another employee. And then, so now I have one and, essentially a full-time and a part-time VSA that do the work of the three people that I lost, including myself, which pulled me completely out of the business. Dean Soto 24:39 So cool. Matt Laird 24:40 So that I can just spend a couple hours in the morning checking on things and then off to disrupt the industry. Dean Soto 24:49 That's awesome, dude. I love it. I love it. So like what, like what that's so cool that you won, that you felt the pain of documenting a processes is that like is the worst, man. I mean, because, but it's what was necessary, obviously, you know, any, any real business has to have those documented processes. Like, with, like with, with all of those the, the one of the things that you just what you, you said that we had talked about in private before is that you said that you had systems. Like the systems could have sucked, but you had systems and you document it in any way. Like, that seemed like it was a pretty big game changer, right? Like rather than trying to create a new system that you don't know is proven. Matt Laird 25:34 Yes. So I mean, just one system I use, right? So instead of having some fancy software for my inventory, I use QuickBooks, alright? And I mean, I could use something else and I may at some point use something else but right now I just use QuickBooks. QuickBooks Platinum has an inventory feature. And I have Bernadette, who's my full time VSA. She creates an Excel spreadsheet that I basically I recorded one afternoon when I never wanted to do it again. She jumps onto my QuickBooks. She has full access to my inventory on my QuickBooks. She builds this spreadsheet. She runs through the spreadsheet and, and knows exactly when how long it takes to order something. She knows how long it takes to come in, and then minimum order amounts. And then she will actually take that spreadsheet that I generated, that I taught her how to do on a Loom video. She actually takes that, creates purchase orders in my QuickBooks then puts the, a suffix on the end that, that has the purchase order number with the "-INC". So when I get to the office in the mornings, it's already ready. I open up my open purchase orders folder on QuickBooks. Anything that says "INC" suffix after that, that part. It means that, that has not been ordered. So all I have to do instead of the 45 minutes to an hour it takes me to run through that spreadsheet every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Now I get to the office, open up my QuickBooks, and I can look and see that oh, this particular vendor, I know I need to get to 1500 dollars to get free freight. It's at 1411, I can either throw on one or two, one or two items or I can just wait and then the following when Tuesday or Monday, Wednesday or Friday, I know it'll get over 1500 bucks. So, and then, so I never had this system before. This is something new that just happened to come up. Whenever I was making the videos, once I started making a video, I felt more comfortable and then I was able to, to be more creative as I was doing it. And, and one real big thing that just the straight game changer was that I know that I'm not gonna have to do this process. I may add steps that make it easier for me to go back later. Because I know I'm not the one doing it every day. So there's been several times where I'm, I'm just generating a new process or a process that I'm already doing. And there's stuff that I've always known that I needed to be doing, but I've just been kind of skipping. Dean Soto 25:36 Yeah. Matt Laird 26:21 When you make that process document, you add all that stuff in. Dean Soto 28:33 Yeah. Matt Laird 28:33 And now that stuff that you always wish you would have done is now being done. Dean Soto 28:37 That is so cool. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So I want to ask the, the big question, which is the question I asked everyone during this. So if you had five minutes and it was like a life or death situation so to speak, what's what's this, what is something, strategically if somebody were to implement whatever it might be? What would be something that, that you could strategically give someone or that would absolutely change their life in five minutes if they made the decision to actually do it? Matt Laird 29:25 So if, if I had five minutes to explain it or if they had five minutes to do it? Dean Soto 29:28 That's it, both, five minutes to explain it, five minutes to explain it. Matt Laird 29:32 Oh man, Russell Brunson gave people 30 days for his, at five minutes? Dean Soto 29:38 That's how we roll here man, we're lazy. We need to do something fast. Matt Laird 29:41 Yeah, I really think in, obviously, I'm, I'm kind of biased right now because I've been going through so much of this, this new training to get to mass market. But today I would say if you want to do something to get your life in order or, or would it, would you want it to be life or is it just something that someone could do that? Dean Soto 30:07 Maybe any, it could be, it could be business, it could be life, it could be absolutely anything. Something that's just like that, that is super impactful. It's not like, it's something that, that that you know, you know, would or has made a big difference in your life. Matt Laird 30:24 So, I'm gonna have to go with, with more than one thing. So the most impactful thing that I've ever had in my life is getting my morning routine dialed in. So without my morning routine my days are, are essentially garbage, right? So I'm just chasing that sanity that I would have had with, with my morning routine. So I spend an extra hour a day getting ready to play, you know, getting ready to to win. Dean Soto 30:53 Yeah. Matt Laird 30:53 If, if I don't spend that hour, hour and how long it takes getting ready in the morning , I might as well just stay in bed. That's my number one life hack of today. Dean Soto 31:09 I love that, like go, so and then you can tell me the, the number two after this but so what is your morning, normal morning routine like, like what do you do personally? Matt Laird 31:19 So, so I think you know it personally but, but I'll go through it. So the first thing I do is I get up. Use the bathroom, wet myself, brush my teeth, make a coffee with one teaspoon of either grass-fed Kerrygold butter, unsalted or ghee, whichever I have there. One tablespoon of MCT oil. I use the Brain Octane which is, I've been using it for years, I love it. And while that's brew and I take a scoop of the either Organifi or green smoothie. I use the, I've been using the Oreo brand lately just because it, it tastes so much better. Crush the green smoothie that's still in my, you know, I'm still in my pantry, pop a couple of Nootropics, Alpha Brain or, or whatever I'm on that. I cycle through them a lot. So whichever Nootropics I'm gonna popped that. Dean Soto 32:25 Dude, yeah, you, you got me back on to that, by the way, and it's made a huge difference. Matt Laird 32:30 I mean, I'm 100% it gets the brain impulse. Dean Soto 32:34 Oh my gosh, it's, it's the way I like, so I mean, I was doing the Qualia for a while and that, that would just make me really anxious for whatever reason, but I've been using, I know you've used the, the Thrivous, whole stack that they have. That's what I've been using too and oh my gosh, they had the difference, man. Matt Laird 32:51 It's good thing. Then I, and I come into my office. So in my office, I have four by six index cards, random assortment of colors. So I have my three daughters and one wife. So I'll write them a note to each of them every day. On my note, I'll say something like, had a great time at the movies, can't wait to go, we're going to go to the movies this week, wherever my daddy daughter date or my wife and I date is for the week. Sometimes I'll bring up a unique memory that we share together. You know, I put something on a card, not a whole bunch coz I write with a permanent marker. So it's big, takes up the whole card, boom, kinda in your face. And then I take those into, my oldest daughter charges her phone in the living room, so I will have it in that room. I put her card under there. My two youngest kids, I put them where they eat their breakfast and then my wife I put about the coffee pot. So that's done. Got all my family stuff out of the way just so that when they wake up they know even though I'm not here, I do love them. And then I have, come back into my office, I'll throw on, hit record, I am blogging a book. So I'll do five, seven minutes, 5 AM on my book then I'm dressing out the door, jump in my truck, turn on the Through The Word App, TTW. Right now, coz actually tomorrow I'm finishing up the In Times, which was 70, 70 days worth or something. Dean Soto 34:29 Wow. Matt Laird 34:30 Soon as I pull up at the office. My office isn't very far. So usually I can go through that five to six minutes on the way to the office, go to the office, all ready to kick all the heaters on in the office coz it's cheap. So I turn all the heaters off at night. My staff is in, in the Philippines anyway, so they don't need it at night. So and then I'll jump back in my truck. And so as soon as I get back in my truck, I'll, I'll go through what's called the Stack, which is an app put down by the Warrior, which is Garrett J. White. Dean Soto 35:04 Yep. Matt Laird 35:05 Basically it, it ask yourself a lot of open-ended questions. Dean Soto 35:08 Yep. Matt Laird 35:10 Steady, so there's like 15 different questions it asks you and then it asks you the question, how you feel about what you just said and it was really good app, Warrior brotherhood, Garrett J. White. Dean Soto 35:20 Yeah. Matt Laird 35:21 And then, kick on Headspace. So right there in my truck in the parking lot at work, 10 minutes today, I actually stepped it up to 20 minutes of Headspace. Dean Soto 35:31 Wow. Matt Laird 35:34 Basically do a bunch of, right now I'm doing one of their programs that go through right, so it's like a 10 day challenges or something. And then I'm good enough. It's about 6:10, office is already warmed up. I'm already at the office. I've already had my first coffee and then I'm ready to go. So I skip, I don't do any fitness in the morning. Which to someone who doesn't work out a lot, I would recommend fitness in the morning but for me it just doesn't work with my schedule because I have a hundred plus minute workout regimen that I have to do all together. I would have to get up at three o'clock in the morning so we don't do that so but that's it. I mean, I'm in the office and I'm usually sitting at my desk at 6:15, levelled, centered, I've already pre planned my entire week on Sunday. So I have my schedule lined out in 30 to 45 minute increments and I'm ready to go. Dean Soto 36:37 I love that. Oh man, the and that, that that is why, that is definitely why it's super important as far as the the five minute strategic thing that is, that is awesome. All the stuff that you're able to pack in to an hour and a half. You know obviously a lot of that comes from the, the Warrior stuff that's, that's actually how Matt and I had, had met. We actually did warrior week with, through Garrett J. White's program. Matt Laird 37:07 We're Week 57 man. Dean Soto 37:08 57. Matt Laird 37:09 Most uncomfortable the human body could do without dying. Dean Soto 37:12 I know it was crazy, man. And it wasn't just the physical as all the, all the emotional stuff too man, like it's crazy. The, so yeah, dude. So that, that, that was one you were, you said that you, there was two things. So there's one was the getting your morning routine down, which you out of everybody, you definitely are so structured with that, with that morning routine and actually doing it on a regular basis. I have a morning routine that, that relatively mimics what you're doing. But sometimes it's at six, sometimes it's at eight. Sometimes it's at seven, sometimes it's at nine. My dream is to, to just make it six o'clock from here on out, but we'll see if we can make that happen so. Matt Laird 37:57 Oh, you know, I've been chasing a morning routine for years. Dean Soto 38:00 Really. Matt Laird 38:01 Funny enough, it doesn't, that you wouldn't think that you would. But so like I've heard people talk about their meditation practices and their morning routines. I read Elrod, Miracle Morning, like three or four years ago. And I've always been trying to get it primed and get it right. I just didn't have all the pieces of the puzzle. But it is super important at this point to have all of that correct. Dean Soto 38:26 You know, you know, I love it, man. I love it. It definitely makes a huge difference. Like I got every Monday we have our little, our group that we, that we talked about, that we meet that you're a part of and every time because I have to be on at around, wake up at 4:45 and be on at five. Like, I've gotten so much done today. Like way more than I normally do during the week and I'm like, oh I gotta do this everyday but then Tuesday comes around, and it's kind of harder, harder to wake up. But yeah, so what's this? What's the second thing, man? You mentioned two, you got me all. Matt Laird 39:01 Yes, so, so the second, second thing is where I'm going right now, man. It is, it's the niches. I mean, it's not mass market. I mean, it's obviously mass market. You don't want to be in a, you know the small area. But it's just to get into that niche, right? So you want to find your customer in the niche, in the niche, in the niche. So you want to know, basically, your customer, you want to be able to draw that avatar on a piece of paper. You want to know how many kids they have, you want to know how many trucks they have, or you want to know how many rakes they have or whatever it is that you do, you need to find out what your current customer is. And I have done some soul searching lately and I realized that a majority of the customers that I work with now don't fit into my perfect customer bubble. Not to say that it doesn't work but I do know that the ones that do fit into my customer bubble feel better with my service. They feel better with me as a person, and I like being around them. So you can't force yourself to go to work when you're actually going and it's people you like to be around, it's people you like to serve. But I really think that finding that niche the people you want to work with and finding where they're at inside of their niche is super important. Dean Soto 40:28 That's awesome man. And I, when, so you recently put out a, a funnel and, and a video and when I, even when I heard the video that you did, it was so specific to problems that you face that, that you, that you know, others face those exact same problems that it got me interested and hooked like right away. And, I definitely don't have those problems, but it was, it was as if I was in the room and you were speaking to a friend of mine that was in the oil or, or had a, you know, fleet of trucks, but wasn't big enough to, to be you know, to get the discounts that a lot of these big distributors and so on are able to get. And you, the way that you talked on this video, it was so narrow and specific in the pain that the person's feeling that it, that it was contagious. And I just thought that, like I, I've, the, the fact that you're able to go that deep definitely tells, tells the person listening that you know. You know if they are going to, you know if they are actually going to be a customer, you know, the pain that they're going through and then you have the path and the, the possibility of helping them to get past that pain that they're currently in right now. It's, it was pretty amazing. Matt Laird 42:02 Well, we're hoping to actually launch today, funnel launches today, I'm just finishing up but this would be my first, funny enough, Inc 500 going on probably two years in a row, and I've only spent $250 my entire career in advertising. So, my first funnel launches today and sad to say that as soon as I hit click, it's gonna double my ad spend for my life. Dean Soto 42:31 Oh poor guy, poor guy, dang, dude, so, so all that being said, like, how, how can people reach you? How can people connect with you, whether they're customers or strategic partners? Any? How can, how can people work with you? Matt Laird 42:48 Yeah, so basically, I'm available email or LinkedIn. I see only two platforms that I use. I, I don't do social media. I don't have any of the Instagram, Tick Tock, whatever the newest thing is. LinkedIn or email. So my email is matt.laird@camrocksupply.com and my, my name is Matt Laird on, in LinkedIn. Dean Soto 43:15 Oh, I love it. Let me, I'm going to grab your LinkedIn profile link real quick, hold on one second so, so when my guys are doing the, the blog post for this, they can link to you. You heard that guys, thank you so much for doing my blog posts for me by the way as you're hearing this. So linkedin.com/in/matt-laird-77540b59, okay? Cool, so you can go there and then you can actually go to, what was your website, it was Camrock? Matt Laird 43:54 Camrock Supply.com Dean Soto 43:57 Camrocksupply.com as well. So go check that, C A M R O C K supply.com. Dude, you're amazing. And I would love to have you on again and talk specific things, operations wise and things like that later, but I really wanted to get, get you on just to introduce you and show people that you're able. You're, I mean if you're able to hit Inc 500 with the overhead that you have, and with the flexibility that you have in an industry that is absolutely archaic and old. It, it shows what you're able to do, that you, that you don't have to go with the flow and stuff like that. So it's just amazing to have you on man and see all the things that you're doing. Matt Laird 44:43 Oh man, I appreciate it. Yep, let me know whenever you're ready. I do know that. After the 21st, when I go live with my new project, I would definitely like to talk on how that things go and we're going to disrupt the industry. Dean Soto 44:59 I love it man. Matt Laird 45:00 Wanna keep up with 2020. Dean Soto 45:02 I love it. Well how, how can people get to your, to your funnel? Matt Laird 45:07 It's not launched at the time but the regular email address for that will be fleet, F L E E T E X.net. Dean Soto 45:20 Cool, perfect, fleetex.net, cool. So by that, yeah, by the time this is on, it should be up and running man. That's great. Cool. Well, it's great having you on brother. I appreciate it. And guys, go check out Matt Laird. If, if, and he is just an absolutely amazing, amazing person and then go check out camrocksupply.com and also fleetex.net. Until then, guys, this has been the freedom in five minutes podcast and we will check you out in the next freedom in five minutes podcast episode.  

080: Integrating Family and Business  WITH JEREMY AND CHANDLER QUARLES On the podcast, today are Jeremy and Chandler Quarles. Together they own Peach and Pine Interiors and host the wonderful podcast, Love Where You Live. After pursuing other careers that were centered around music, they both are now focusing on building the interior and renovation business…with a little music still on the side. We are chatting today about how their business began, how they are integrating their home and business life while focusing on the foundational aspects of business that will put them in a place for future growth. With a one-year-old child and a three-year-old business, you can bet they are busy – and how they support and listen to each other is inspirational. Enjoy the podcast.   Topics Mentioned: Integration Family Podcast Faith Key Thoughts: But as the business grew, I realized there was no way for him (Jeremy) to really be involved and help because he was gone so much he wasn't really part of things. - Chandler (8:40) And in the past, I would have found other tours and other artists to work for and fill that time but we just kind of said, you know, we created this business with the intention ultimately of coming together on it and it is our career. - Jeremey (11:00) You just hear that you don't go into business with friends and family. - Michele (16:19) Tag team on Friday. He'll take dad duty in the morning and I'll go work somewhere. Then we'll switch off in the afternoon. - Chandler (24:15) Sometimes I'll wake up, honestly, on a Saturday morning, and I won't have any work to do for my clients. But because I've been rested, I want to do something for myself and my own business. - Michele (32:13) I mean, I was profitable from the beginning and that my overhead was super low, I was making an income, but I did not have the long term, the long game really in mind. - Chandler (51:06) We weren't reckless, we've always been profitable, but we were not sustainably profitable. And I think I wish that we would have just started by taking a small salary and putting more into savings, which is what we're starting to do now. - Jeremy (56:15) Yeah, I don't think we certainly were made to be Island. - Michele (59:39) Contact Michele Email: Team@ScarletThreadConsulting.com Facebook: Scarlet Thread Consulting Instagram: @ScarletThreadATL Contact Jeremy and Chandler Website: http://www.peachandpinehome.com  Instagram: @peachandpinehome  Facebook: Peach and Pine Home  References and Resources: EP. 009 with Cory and Anthea Click - Listen Today EP. 064 with Michele Williams - Listen Today  The Designers' Inner Circle - Become a Member Today

This weeks guest is Kale Goodman. Kale came from a family of financial disaster. Tax levy's, tax liens, wage garnishments and bankruptcies. There was so much turmoil, fighting and chaos that this burden caused in our home so much that he never wanted to be a business owner because of the fear of that up bringing. Kale believes that the IRS could just take everything away and ruin your life. Luckily he landed a sales job at an accounting firm in 2003. He studied hard on the importance of money, taxes and organization. The reason initially was to serve the companies clients better and make more sales but it did much more than that. It gave him the confidence to be a business owner, it helped him understand that the IRS didn’t ruin my parents lives. The lack of organization and choosing to stay ignorant in the important areas of money, finance and taxes is what caused his families distress and chaos. Kale has now been a part of multiple successful business ventures since 2006. His love and passion is the service business owners in this tans and financial area. Even though he is a part of multiple business ventures his main are at Easieraccounting.com where he gets to serve business owners they way they need to be served. It’s just so true that the throngs we go through in our up bringing are for us and not just things that happen to us.Links: Easieraccounting.com https://m.facebook.com/easieraccounting https://www.instagram.com/realbusinessowners/Search “Real business owners” on iTunes, Spotify and all other pod cast apps.Welcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. Each week we expose the faulty foundational mindsets of the past and rebuild the newer, stronger foundation essential in creating your meaningful legacy. We've got a lot of work to do. So let's get started. As much as you like this podcast, I'm certain that you're going to love the book that I just released on Amazon if you will, your legacy, the nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy. I wrote this to share with you the experiences that I had while I was identifying my identity, how I began to create my meaningful legacy and how you can create yours. You're going to find this book on Kindle, Amazon and their website Sam Knickerbocker. com.Welcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast and as always another great guest I met kale, kale Goodwin, good man. So I met him on Instagram because I was on another podcast, he saw me on Bradley's podcast reached out and like, and I love what you're doing. But what you're where you're going with this love to just see how, how we could add value to each other. So I'm grateful that he reached out because as somebody who's been an entrepreneur for a long time, taxes is one of the main things that people just screw up in their life. I had one client just recently catching up with the real estate tax person. And they're going to go back three years and refile and probably saved my client, close to 30 to $50,000 that they overpaid because they just didn't know what they were doing. They said, I'm going to do it myself, I'm going to do it yourself or that do or do it yourself or just got expensive. And so that's what I love about this. So when we connected, it just seemed like a good fit to have him on here. But kale, he came from a background of the kind of hating government. I feel like anybody who comes from a background of hatred or really distrust of something, oftentimes end up once they understand it, they end up becoming an advocate. And it's not that you're an advocate for the IRS. But understanding what the IRS code is for can shift your mentality said, Wow, I can add a lot of value if I can help other people have the same epiphany that I had. And so what's cool about this is kale. He's built an accounting firm, for entrepreneurs specifically. And it's built by entrepreneurs. So he understands your business. He understands what you're going through, he understands all the ins and outs and how to make that streamlined and effective for you to maximize your profits and minimize your stress. Finances are the number one stress all over business or in relationships. And if we can take that stress off of you and just give you some, some real actionable things that you can work on on a quarterly basis and have everything in perfect order, by the time season comes, then it's like you're not even thinking about it, you're not stressed about taxes, you know, they're just going to get filed, and it's going to happen, you're going to get what money is yours, you're going to pay what you owe. And it's all going to be planned for. And that's why Gail's on here today because that's what he's creating for people. He's creating peace, time, joy, loyalty, and focus for you as a listener. And that's what I want them on here. So go ahead kale and kind of give us an introduction. Tell us how you got into this space? What transition why you decided to become your entrepreneur and build a legacy for yourself.Absolutely, man, I appreciate that introduction. And just to highlight on that a little bit like that's, I mean, that's really what it comes down to is those financial healthy habits and helping people create those because, like, as you do, like with people in their budgets and where they can save and all that stuff. That's kind of what we do more focused around the taxes, but it always does take some responsibility on the client's part. And so we want to help them create those healthy habits. And, you know, but yeah, to jump into my story a little bit I so I grew up my entire life I can't even remember when it started because it went on for so long. But my childhood, there was a ton of like fighting in the home, the biggest issue was over money. And the reason is that my dad was a self-employed contractor. And he kept getting himself into further and further or a deeper and deeper hole, not only with his finances and his budgeting and his money management but also with his taxes. And I just remember from as long as I can remember, I mean maybe five, six years old, five, six years old until early adulthood. When I left home, my parents constantly thought about the IRS. And so I grew up with this belief that the IRS ruined our lives. Because they like literally they leaned my dad's home. They garnish his wages. They audited him. They did estimate taxes on him. They put taxes and penalties on top of it. He to the point where he could never get caught up, you know, from what he was making, he could never like to afford to live and get caught up from the debt that he got behind on. And then my mom, she ends up going in and getting a job. And within months they garnish her paychecks. The suppliers of my dad's contracting business get contacted, and they start asking if there are any credits there. They put holds on there. They forced him into foreclosure. They forced him into bankruptcy. And he even lost his ability to get supplies that supply warehouses because he had to file foreclosure on his suppliers. I mean, it was just this financial mess constantly. And so there's all this fighting. And so I just grew up with that belief of like, why would anybody want to be a business owner when IRS can come and just ruin your life? You know, and so that was my childhood was just constant Fighting, fighting to the point where like, we were that neighborhood home was like the cops showed up every, you know, once or twice a year. And, you know, there was like some real, some really bad things going on in the home and, and like literally kids weren't allowed to play in our house because, you know, we had the, you know, the home where the cops showed up toit was kind of crazy man I love hanging out with a smile. Just make sense.Well, I mean, my peers aren't bad people, they're just, you know, the man, they were just ignorant. And, you know, they just, you know, I don't know, they've got themselves in someone's financial troubles over. So buried him so deep, they just didn't know how to fight out of that. And so, and I didn't realize that either, like I had that belief, but, you know, man, that's what business ownership is, is you're fighting the IRS all the time and they just own you. So it was pretty bad. But so I ended up because I've always been a real entrepreneurial kid. You know, I was that kid that would like to scrub up. You know, golf balls. I found a nearby golf course. Some golfers I mean, I even would go down the hill to this mercantile we had growing up, or I'd buy Penny candies. And they, when they were a penny, I would put them in a baggie 10 of them and then I will sell them at school for $1 he knows I'm gonna get your kid's lunch money, like half their lives funny for a little bag of penny candies. And so I always loved that entrepreneurialwas that their parents must have been pissed.I don't know, I never really got any blowback for it. But I just loved the idea of making money, like turning my money into more money. And I love you know, that entrepreneurial stuff before I even knew what entrepreneurship was. So it was kind of a sad belief to grow up that like being a business owner was a bad thing. So I got lucky,because I got into sales.And I got into sales for maybe about three years. And this guy comes into the company that I worked for, and he does a presentation all about how to keep more of the money that you made even as a sales guy for guys that side hustles and side gigs and things like that, how to structure yourself and all these things. And I just really like gravitated to his presentation. And after talking to this guy a couple of times that owned an accounting firm, he ended up recruiting me to come work for him. And this was a really big blessing for me because I don't head into the tax and accounting world, I learned as much as I possibly could from accountants at that firm. Mainly, the first reason was to get more sales and know how to talk to my clients. I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could about accounting so I could onboard more clients and make more money. But it kind of hit me like a freight train. After I worked there for a couple of years that like, man, I want to be my boss. I want to be my business owner one day, and I now realize that like, being a business owner isn't bad. Like I I was just taught my whole life, that being a business owner was bad and taxes were bad and the government was bad and IRS was bad, but it really wasn't It was my dad's lack of obviously, being organized and being structured and running his business effectively, that caused all the problems in our home growing up. And so it was a cool man. Like I finally got the courage because once I learned everything about accounting, I learned systems and processes around accounting. I learned about structuring, and LLC and escorts and see the corpse and sole proprietorship and partnership, I learned all these things. And it gave me that confidence to go start my own business. So I did, I started I continued working at the tax accounting firm. But I partnered with my buddy who wrote a course on day trading. And we partnered up and his course was really good. And so we partnered up and on the side after hours, we would go and sell his course on how to day trade and make more money. I would do the sales and he would do the fulfillment and the coaching because he had more knowledge about that. And it was pretty cool. It was a good gig. We did it for like a year and then my boss pulled me in and fired me. At the accounting firm, and he said, you know, if you're not here, 100% you're not here at all. And I was like, What do you mean, man, I'm still like the number one on the border. Like, I know, I get beat sometimes by this guy who I trained and brought in to the company, like, you know, like, I feel like I bring those values hard because I love this company. And I love the guys that I worked with. But it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I remember he told me that he's like, Listen, man, you're on the fence, and I'm kicking you off, and you're probably thinking. And so anyway, so we ran our business for a couple of years after I left that company, but I love the tax and accounting games so much that I decided to start my tax and accounting company on top of our day trading program company. And so that's what I did. And that became my main focus that was in about 2008 that we started and launched our tax and accounting firm. And so here we are, in 2019 11 years later, you know, and that's, that's my main thing. It's my baby. is around the tax and accounting conference. Sothat's awesome. So there are a few things I want to kind of bring out there. Because I think this is where most people tend to be. And I'm curious for yourself, why do you think that your parents didn't seek further education? Like, why did they not go and ask a professionalto help them? You know,Man, I wish I had a really good answer for that. I don't know why they never did. I know my dad hired CPAs and then he would just never follow through with getting them the information to get caught up and get this problem taken care of. And, man, I was like 19 years old before he finally did it. But I think he got caught up in just the grind of constantly trying to make more money, they get himself out of the hole, and he never really put the time and the focus into Actually, you know, solving that problem, he just kept trying to fix it by making more money, making more money making more money, which just kept catching up to a minute, you know, and he did actually have some years where he made a lot of money, but then it was just more taxes on top of more taxes. And so I think he kind of thought, like, if you just don't file his taxes like problems a bill Wayne, soand this is exactly why I want to bring this up. Because of so many people and I, I won't say I'm guilty of it entirely. If somebody understood what I was teaching, then maybe they would understand this, but maybe they don't understand. And that's why I'm glad I can, can shed some light on this. Some people believe that just making more money will solve all their problems. It'll help them get out of debt faster and help them whatever. That is important. But there are other ways to make money because if we think of money as value, then you could go earn trade time for money or value for money, whatever you can go. Earn. Money, let's say you can go work for a day and earn $1,000. Right? Or you could spend a day saving $3,000, which is the most productive day. And people think, Well, obviously earning more money, that's going to give me the best rate of return. And sometimes figuring out how to decrease expenses or not have to pay taxes on certain things that are more valuable than the value of earning more money. And people don't always recognize that and the same thing with refinancing debt refinancing, and car loans, credit cards, the school that whatever it is, sometimes repositioning stuff there's a better rate of return on the reposition than on trying to earn more money. That's not always the case. But in a lot of cases, it's something that needs to be looked at, and, and gone over critically and thinks, okay, what's more, important I was talking with a client yesterday. Today, and he's like, well, I, all my family think I should go into this one investment. Right? That's fine, you can go into that investment. And you will most certainly have a higher dollar amount in your account at the end of that investment then I will have in mind, but do you just want more money in your account? Or do you want to live on more income because, in this other account, you can pull out twice as much without market risk? And so now, the question is, I might have fewer money dollars in my account at retirement, but I'm getting a third more income than you are. I'm getting 30% other people so so at that point, which is more valuable, and getting into the numbers and analyzing that that's why professionals are valuable. Yeah, it's good to have somebody who can help you understand, hey, slow down. The money's not always answered, let's build a foundation that we can make money inside of and you'll never have to worry about this again. Let's set up a structure to make that happen, so I'm curious. The next question is when you were kind of going into getting into accounting, and I know you said you wanted to learn as much as you could to help other clients. Were you connecting your purpose at that point back to your childhood? Or was it still just like, Hey, this is a new thing and no connection to childhood at all?No, the only connection that I really had, when I started to do my own thing was like, Man, you know, I kind of had that epiphany of like, dude, you know, this is very achievable to own your own business and not have those problems that your dad had growing up my dad had, and, and, you know, those, those were the big connections that I had, but I didn't actually put it together till probably about four years ago.And I was like,I gravitate towards finance, finance, and taxes and accounting for a reason. And I just, you know, kind of, they kind of just hit me one day when I started thinking about why I like it so much. I was like, has to be because of my childhood, you know, so that didn't come till way later on. Like, I just love making money at something that I got good at, and you know what I mean all that, but then I started kind of putting it together that, that, you know, I enjoy it. And the reason is that I like solving these types of problems. I like being able to help people out of the problems that my dad was in, and I like helping prevent the problems that my dad got himself into, and to go back and even touch a little more on on your point about why why he never got it taken care of is like I think a lot of times, you know, we don't learn a lot growing up in our school system about finance, finance, or money management or anything and I think that he was just so ignorant to it and absolutely did not like the idea of educating himself. He just wanted to spend his time doing what he knew how to do. And so I feel like because people they procrastinate, what they don't want to do. They want to focus on what they know how to do, and what brings in the money instead of like actually focusing on, you know, taking care of those problems and the area that they know nothing about. He knew nothing about taxes, maybe that's why you avoided and procrastinate so much. So,and two things with that one. I think that that I think that's an okay perspective. If you're going to say, Okay, I'm not going to focus on it, but I'm going to pay somebody else to focus on it. But the issue becomes when we're living in fear and scarcity and we're unwilling to pay somebody else to do their expert work. I'm going to do my expert. I work I was talking to a publisher, just yesterday, an editor and publisher, it's like, okay, who, who do I talk to about formatting my books? Because Could I learn how to format my books? I absolutely could learn how to do that. That is not something I want to become an expert in, like, Who can I pay? Who's going to give me the best results? That's what I'm looking for. How can I impart my value my money to that person? So they can give me value back in return because I'm good at what I do. It's okay if you're an expert, if you're just a genius at what you do, you do not need to be good at everything. You don't even need to think about everything past assigning it for somebody else. There's a great book called The E Myth by Michael Gerber, I believe. Yeah. And that book is probably one of the best books to get that point across. Look, you were not meant to be a professional in every aspect of your business. you're meant to do whatever you're meant to do, whether it's the technician work, whether it's the business, whether it's the oversight work, whatever it is, that's what you're meant to do everything else, find somebody else who's professional and can do that. So you don't even have to think about it. We're stressed about it. And that's what I love about Kayla is he can take that accounting stress, that bookkeeping stress that really that all the financial stress off of somebody can and take care of that and then he can say look, this is what you do. Every month, I can run your business. I'm curious, Gil, once that did click the once you do make the tie between your childhood and what you love doing and why you love doing it, what changed in your business once that became, once you became aware of that, or how did you start treating your business differently?Everything changed, man, because before, you know, I was running it like a business like where can I? Where can I cut cost and make more and you know what I mean? Almost, you know, I'm just focused on making my business successful. And when I realized that I was like, You know what, I need to actually invest more into our fulfillment more into our systems and processes more and how we service clients, because the more money I help my clients Save, and the more service and value I add to them, the longer they're going to stay my customers, I'm gonna have more, you know what I mean? I, you know, reengineered is like, instead of trying to figure out how to make more now, how can I make more in the long run by adding more value, and how can I help these people more success stories. Now we get more I love what you brought up about your real estate clients, we do a ton more amended reviews all the time. And we go back and find 10s of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars that people can get back because of mistakes that were made either by a CPA and accounting firm that just didn't care or by a client trying to do it themselves. You know, so we love that. So we added, we started doubling down on services like that, to start showing people how they can the mistakes that they were making and how much they can save by doing some initial tax planning instead of just a bunch of projections, tax planning. And so that changed everything for us because it was just such a valuable service and people were getting such a good almost return on their investment with us that they now stay loyal customers with us for a lot longer. And then they want to hire us for more services like Bookkeeping and Tax Preparation and all that. So yeah,no, so a few things. The reason I asked that question that kale, I didn't know how he's going to answer But I know a principle of truth and the principle of truth is that when what you what you're doing on a daily basis once you can connect that with your core identity and purpose, things change, you start looking at life differently you start looking at how you're serving differently and you heard him say it. Once she connected what he was doing with his core identity. He added more value he started thinking how can I add more value How can I get more How can I give more of myself to these people because until then, it's all about money. And there's a point where our drivers can be purchased by simply add my lead is the one who talks about this all the time, like when is your will to win going to be purchased, and everybody has a price. And to assume that you don't have a price, I think is a little bit mistaken. But only when you're connecting it to money. Once you connect it to it to your identity. I don't think you have a price anymore and that's The key thing, once you can connect once you can identify your identity and start building a business on that, that foundation of your identity one, that's when you're all in, that's when your boss says, Well, you got to get out because you're not all in here. That's when you're able to go all in. But also, that's the value that you're adding. It is adding an identity. And then this other thing, I want you to speak to this because you're the professional you have, you're allowed to I'm maybe not as much but the perspective of people with taxes. Okay, so a lot of people think that taxes are something they have to pay, and the government is dictating to them what they have to pay. They don't understand that every time you file a tax return. your tax return is essentially a proposal. It's a business proposal. As if you were going to go into an event like a flea market and say, okay, you have all that all this stuff that I want to buy, you think it's all worth $50 I want to give you a 30 and then you decorate it until you come to you settle on a price. And that's what you end up walking out the door with. That is essentially what a tax return is. And if you don't, if you've been to Mexico, you've been to ends nada, you've been on a cruise or to a third world country and you're not experienced barter and you're not experiencing dickering with people, you're going to spend so much more money than somebody knows who knows how to wiggle somebody down on price. And that is the difference between an experienced accountant who understands what is happening and somebody who's trying to do it themselves. And don't do that to yourself. Because it's not you that's hurting, it's your family. It's your children. It's your parents and your grandparents. It's all the people who depend on you financially that you're not allowing the full benefit of a professional and as you can you can speak to that salute.Man, I love that analogy Dude, I that's I've never really heard it that way. But it's so true. There's and here's the thing to even touch a little bit more on that is like People don't realize that they don't have to become tax experts to save a ton of money on taxes, all they've got to do is spend a little bit of time communicating throughout the year. And a lot of work can be done. That's why we got the name easier accounting because even though the software is great, they take a lot off and they make things easier. People still don't aren't willing to do it. But once people take that step in, the higher whether it's us or somebody else, if they find the right people, for them, that will take the initiative to help hold you accountable to get the right information so that you do have professionals looking into your books. We can go through and find those things that we can negotiate with the IRS, you know what I mean? So like, hey, you've got four kids, and you've got them doing some duties of the business. Why don't we make them legitimate parts of the business so that you want, you can teach them how to you know how business works, and you can teach them valuable lessons on business and entrepreneurship, but why don't you actually start getting paint them the right way, so that you can actually get the tax benefit on top of just your child tax credits. And now, and that's legal and legitimate as long as they are having a legitimate duty of the company. You know, like, I've got clients that pay their younger kids just as Instagram models, because there are Instagram models out there, make a substantial amount of money, and you can pay your kids up to $12,000 a year and then file a tax return, you don't have to do a W two on them. You don't have to do 1099 on you have to do anything, you can just write it off as child labor. And then at the end of the day, you just wrote off 10 12,000 bucks. Now you use that 12,000 bugs, to cover the expenses of your child baseball fees, school fees, clothes, groceries portion of the rent portion of those things that are not tax-deductible in your life. So you're getting like the tax deduction and using it to cover things that aren't tax-deductible in your life, which is huge savings. So I mean, there's just things like that like just as for one example, there are also things with investing and things like that, that we can show you throughout the year and your accountant could do most of it for you if you're just willing to communicate with them.Yeah, because ultimately and this is where people don't understand like their lives as  I see this on the financial side. So this is why I love this conversation. But all that's happening is it's the way that we're presenting the information to the IRS, all the numbers all the ones all the zeros all everything's the same all the money's flowing essentially the same way. The difference is, how are we having that conversation with the IRS? What are we saying to them? Right? So the delivery is key on in that conversation. And if you don't want to spend all year finding out Hey, how did the government change their preferred language of delivery, then have somebody else do it? I promise you, I promise you if people do not believe this, but I do promise you not gonna guarantee it because that would be against my rules, but I will say that I have never seen somebody pay more in taxes by using an accountant every single time they save money. And then oh well it cost me $600 to file with an accountant or 1200 dollars a year or what? I paid 4000 plus dollars a year for a good accountant and here's why. Because I know that that that accountant is going to save me at least four grand on my taxes at least. And even if he doesn't, even if it's zero what I paid the accountant and my tax refund versus if I just filed that myself I had to pay more to the government. Then this is my position. Would you rather pay the government the IRS not even really the government? If we're being completely honest, it's just the IRS or would you rather pay somebody in your community like what are you trying to support big,essentially a big corporation or,or somebody in your community, it broke even it's Still better support people in your community? I think,Oh yeah, dude, I agree with that hundred percent,but we're the ones who have the money.Well and I tell people all the time I'm like, Listen, man, a great accountant, someone cares should never cost you any money like that's why we do amend reviews and initial tax planning with our clients when we bring them on board. And that's why we do things the way that we do things because we want to show them first of all these are mistakes are being made, and we can't find mistakes that are being made great and we just gave you peace of mind you can keep the guy that you have because of the gal, you know, because you've got a good thing going like we can't find any mistakes, you know, but we also look at what industry are in what na cis code Are you in? Like what are the deductions that you are not implementing that you're eligible for? And do you have expenses in those areas? Because we want to also find out if their money is there things are missing out on that we can now implement into your tax savings summary. And so and we do that becausewe want to show people right out of the gate likewe can save you this much money. And then we can add more value the longer you use this because it's like, okay, right now we're in the lowest tax rates in eight decades, like we literally in the middle of a tax sale where rates are as low as they've ever been. So we don't want to continue to just do all these tax different strategies when we know, almost 100%, that tax rates are going to be a lot higher for our clients when they do go into retirement ages. So why do you want to defer a bunch of money right now that you're going to pay a higher tax rate on later? And then not only that, but then get your Social Security tax when you have to take your, you know, minimum withdrawals from your foreign case or your IRAs, you know, so we want to show people to like any right now, take advantage of the investment strategies that are tax free in retirement age, you know, use the lower tax rates now to pay your taxes, save as much money as you can on your taxes so that we can plan for the future and you actually can now live in retirement ages, virtually tax free or very minimally.Yeah, absolutely. I love it. So when you're going through this, and you're You have this epiphany, you're going to change and you're saying, Hey, I'm going to start my own business, obviously have the skills. And this is where a lot of people think, well, I have the skills for somebody else, but I don't have the skills for myself. But not only do they think that for themselves, but oftentimes people around them don't believe that they could be successful in starting their own business. So tell us a story of your biggest naysayer and how you were able to silence them in your mind and continue to progress and succeed regardless of what people are saying about you.My biggest naysayer, I mean, that was probably me. You know, I was my biggest naysayer. And I was just, you know, I was. Before I even worked for the tax and accounting firm. I was just a sales guy that made pretty good money. You know, I was making 100 hundred and 20 on up to even $150,000 a year in sales, as well as paying a lot in taxes myself. That's one of the reasons I liked that guy's presentation when he came to see us. ButImeant even though I hated paying taxes. hated the idea of my childhood I hated the idea of getting myself in a tax trouble so I prefer to just haven't taken out of my w two I prefer got taken out of my paycheck I prefer never to be in those type of tax troubles I liked that it was easy for me to go to h&r block which I actually did use I used h&r block when I was a sales guy.So sorry, someone tried to call me on it. So thatso that I could just pay what I was owed, and I would never get in those troubles. You know, so that's was my mindset, I want to make as much money as I can. I don't care what I get paid taxes, I still want those problems. So probably, before I even went to work for the tax and accounting firm, probably one of the biggest things that helped silence that is when I started working with this guy before I worked for him, he was my accountant. I stopped doing h&r block, I started going to him because he showed me that my wife was in an MLM business. To make extra money. She was kind of stay on mom, and she wanted to make extra money. So she joined this and MLM he showed me that, like, you guys legitimately are trying to make money with this. It's not just some hobby. So you should search for yourself as an LLC. And you should start keeping things separate and get organized and start, you know, money managing your money a little bit different because there are all these deductions that you're opening yourself up to. And I probably would have never gone to work for him. And I probably would have never became a business owner if I wouldn't have learned those things from him from the professional that I was getting advice from, because I started saving a significant amount of money on my w two jobs because of all the tax deductions we're creating with my wife's home-based business at the time. And so I was actually like, really blown away by like, wow, this is like why do not more people know this? You know, why did my dad not know this, all that and so that, that was probably one of the biggest moments where I was able to start silencing myself as my biggest naysayer and realize that like, you don't have to be scared of the IRS.Awesome. I love it. So it's funny because we grow up as children. Not everybody, but a lot of children grow up and they're scared of the dark, right. And I don't think that it's completely unwarranted to be scared of the dark, it's unknown. And it's kind of a natural reaction to being scared of the dark. But so too often people take that physical example, and they just limit it to the physical example. But in reality, psychologically, we're scared of the dark, we're scared of things we don't know. And to simply like, silence the naysayers or get rid of some of those concerns in our lives. If we just expose ourselves to what is then we don't have to be scared of what is anymore because now we know, right? There's, there's clarity there. And so I love that that is the way that you were able to silence us yourself as a naysayer which I just needed more information. As soon as I got more information than I was good to go. And I saw that with my clients. Sometimes I'll question like, okay, is this the best thing for me? I'm like, Okay, I understand that you don't know what I know. And that's fine. So here are some books that you can go read. If this is the way you need to do it. We need to expose you to more information, more third-party sources not coming from me. So That you aren't sitting there thinking, Oh, man, I probably should not do this. Now I want you to think, Okay, how could I make this work? What does? What does Sam know that I don't know, I, I do my best never to assign mal intent to somebody, or that they're trying to screw me over or that there did something malicious later hurt me financially, I just don't believe that I think people, in reality, they simply don't know what they don't know. They're acting on the best information that they have. And so if that's the case, how can I then bring somebody more information? or How can I get more educated so that I don't have to worry about that again? So then what was what would you say? Is that all that takes tactical or some type of practical and application? Would you say? a habit mindset or behavior that you've adopted throughout your life has helped you create your meaningful legacy? What is a habit mindset or behavior of yours? that's helped you do that and then how could we adopt that into our lives?Yeah, I tell people all the time, you know, as I get on stages and present stuff like that just like you do. And I tell people all the time, at the very end, I'm like, Listen, you know, success is a byproduct of execution, you know, and that's what I've always been good at, is just executing. I just do things right. Like before I even know if it's gonna work or not, I don't overanalyze. I don't. I don't try and put together a perfect business plan or anything like that. When I have an idea of what I think's gonna work. I just do it and find out right by through executing, but I tell people all the time, I'm like, Listen, success. Yeah, you're going to get results from execution. But well, profit. Those are not just events that happen like they are created through healthy habits. You have to start like getting things in order, like bookkeeping, the things that you don't want to do. You have to do them to know your numbers. And that's something that I had to do instead of just pitch pitching it and saying it, I had to start practicing it and so I'm very disciplined in my books now. So like I use my service. I've got Jared, I got team Jared here to crew this year team, Sean here, which are all bookkeeping teams, and they manage my books for my companies as well. We have several companies of my S corp, they manage my companies, and they manage my S corporations. I looked at my financials with them every month, and it only takes 20 minutes. You know, so are you willing to spend 20 minutes a month like understanding your numbers so that you can make better decisions in your business? So I had to start practicing what I preach. So I do that religiously. Now monthly, I take the time to understand my numbers so that I can make better decisions in my business. So I stopped just executing and hoping for the best return. And I started diving into my books and analyze my numbers and making educated decisions based on financial information instead of just winging it.I love that it was for a long time when in my business, I would just ask people, General numbers like okay, well how much do you think this you're spending here? Here here, just get some general numbers, how much you're generally making, what's your general expenses, okay, so you have a discretionary income of about XYZ or whatever. And what I found was, although that was fairly helpful, I mean, it accomplished my objective of being able to help them invest money. It didn't give them the education and the knowledge that they needed to excel in life. And so same as you once I shifted my mindset and got more in touch with my identity. And what I want to do, I shifted my business model to now my objective is before we ever even look at potential investment options. And now the whole conversation is we've got to gain financial acuity, we have to get to a point where you know, where every penny is where it's coming in, where it's going, for the at least for the last three months. We've got to factor in if we're in the summer months, we got to factor in that you're going to spend money on Christmas. And if you spend the money on Christmas, how much is that? Generally, we've got an average These things out so that we're making good financial decisions. And then this is where my clients have given me really good feedback. And I'm grateful for them is being able to do this process with zero judgment, because it's not about what a professional thinks you should do with your money. It's not about what kale thinks you should do with your taxes. It's about what do you value most? Right? And, and you can't have a value comparison or value conversation until you know where your money's going. Once you know where the money's going, then I could say, okay, that money you spent on fast food, that money you spent on taxes, that money you spent on your car repairs, where was the value? Right? Was it worth that much money? And if it wasn't, then we need to scale that back. If it was and you think that that is your football season is worth your subscription to ESPN or whatever. And that's your sanity, dude. I'm not telling you to scrap that if that's what you need that you need a mentor. But, but understand that there is we have to have a value conversation about every dollar and say, am I getting the value? Am I getting the mileage out of this dollar? If not, let's reallocate it somewhere. That's better. That's going to give us more value.Yeah, I love that. That's what you do to man because we're always looking at people's spending like okay, well what's tax-deductible? And what is it and what can we run through your company town? How can we save you more money on your taxes based on what you're spending? But I love that you are helping people like find that value in their money like what can you legitimately cut? What is the value because that is a huge part of it. budgeting is a big part of it. But you know, like we look more at what is tax-deductible, how can you shift your mind Move your money to make the best for your taxes? You're looking at it like what can you do for your life because at the end of the day, like everybody's goals are the same. You know, everyone's goals are different, but they all come down to the same thing because I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of business owners over the years, and everybody wants the same thing. They want the value of time. They don't want money to dictate the decisions in their life. They Want to reach a point in their life where they have absolute financial freedom? Every single goal I ever hear from guys pay off my mortgage, have financial freedom, travel, the World War, everything all comes down to that like they don't want money to dictate their decisions on what they do with their time. That's what it all comes down to. And they have to create those habits of like what you do budgeting, and then they have to create better financial habits with their accounting and everything if they want that info.Yeah, and, and this is another thing that's important here to analyze is so many people that I talked to, and you probably talked to people similar, where you start asking them questions about their money, and they say, Oh, I have an accountant. And they think the accountant is the end all be all for everything they need. Or they say I have a bookkeeper or Oh, my uncle does files on my taxes for me or my uncle's a financial advisor, or my uncle has been successful with his investments or he's a business owner right and they think that they only need one person to manage everything and Nope. No professional that I would consider a professional is going to say that they do everything. Every professional that I've met that I would consider a professional, they're part of a team. They're part of, Okay, how are we as a group going to maximize this? So on my team, I have lawyers, I have accountants, I have other financial professionals, I have people who manage debt, I have the blown up eliminate debt, I have people who get, like help you get into more debt. If you're looking to expand your company, right? I have a team of people that I work with, and I provide one little area, I need to understand how I'm working with all of them. So I understand overall strategies, but it goes down to licenses when it comes down to actual application and implementation. I only do a sliver of what has to get done. And so if you're listening to this, and you're thinking, Oh, why I have somebody who takes care of this one little thing. Even though kale and I do similar things for our clients, We each are striving for a different objective. And we're each going to pull a little different corner in the ring for our client. And sometimes we may agree or disagree with how to move forward with a client. And that's part of the negotiation is okay, what is the best way forward in, in the interest of this client. And there are things that he might not be aware of that I know. And there are things that I might not be aware that he knows. And that's why we have a team of people because a team is better than one and for people to understand.Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And I think that that's a good problem to have if you've got a couple of different experts kind of going back and forth on what is best for you. And what I like to align with your goals at the end. Like that's a pretty good problem to have. So you should have multiple experts looking at things and, and I tell people that all the time I'm like hire the right people for you. How do you do that? interview them? Talk to them like you wouldn't just hi Anybody to fill a very important role in your company without interviewing them and getting multiple interviews like you want the right person for your team and it's got to be the same thing with your accountant. don't hire me if I can't do what you need me to do. And you're not going to find that out unless you talk to me, but don't just go hire your uncle's best friend because he saved your uncle a bunch of money. You know, you guys are in two different situations. There is no cookie-cutter approach to accounting, budgeting anything because everybody is different when it comes tothat. Yeah, I've been know, a client that he actually pays three completely separate, independent accounting firms to track and do his numbers every year and he just files the best one out of the three that he likes.It's not that I did.So anyway, but that it's fascinating that like, what is the value of having experts in your corner and everybody's going to do it a little bit different everybody studied different ways. Different things, because of their clientele, they have different knowledge. And they've done different things. They've been successful, different things. And so it's just funny when he told me that I was like, that's smart to say, look, everybody go work on this case. And when you come back with your I mean, I think of like, what's the pot offer and the story about now, I don't know who was somebody in the story of Joseph in Egypt when he wanted his dream interpreted. He like, went and got all of the wise men to interpret the dream and then come back and they all got a chance to like, say their interpretation. And because I don't like any of those,I can interpret it.But it's it really can be like that. It's like, it's okay to have multiple opinions and multiple perspectives. I'm not offended when somebody wants multiple perspectives about what I think the role is, or the or the plan. I'm going to fight for My strategy is hard because I think it's the best for us I wouldn't you believe in it for sure. Right? So So how what does it look like if we were to call you or reach out to you easier accounting on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn or kill Goodman? What does the process look like working with you I know pricing is going to be variant based on whowhat the situation is but what doesDoes the process look like?Yeah, so process here is it is it's kind of different based on what you need. Like we have clients that call us that they're tired of their accountant not calling them back or you know, communications poor we have clients that just feel like they were they're overpaying. And so we get clients from all over we go to events like you do we have people approach us at events and after events, but based on what the clients telling us is the road that we're going to take them down like if people are like oh man, I just want to see if you can save me money first and you know, whatever like before for hire you or whatever, which is fine. We're totally fine with Well, then we are going to talk to them about like, well, let's do, let's do an initial tax plan. I'm not going to do a lot of people, first of all, don't even tax plan at all. So we're going to say, Okay, well, what we do we have a tax planning product, which is a thousand bucks. And we do a $2,000 guarantee on it. So if we can show you has your accounting sits right now, not future predictions, not all that stuff, not future investments and how to defer money, none of that stuff. If we can't show you in your accounting, how we can save you at least $2,000 right now as your accounting system will give you money back and you can go back to your accountant, at least you have peace of mind. If we can show you at least $1,000 in the savings on top of what you paid us, then, then, I'm sorry, someone keeps trying to call me then, then then you're going to you're going to see and so our tax plan is based around in the vendor review, we're going to look at your past year's taxes. We're going to analyze all the mistakes that we're finding, we're gonna look at your industry like I talked about before, what can we implement to add more value and a summary basically If you fix this, if you add this, you will save this. And so we do have a lot of our clients initially, but a lot of clients just call us up and they're like, dude, my books are eight months behind. I'm sick of it. I'm trying to get a loan. The bank wants to see financials. Can you guys help me? How quick Can you help me? And so you know, we have a team of bookkeeping experts where they'll jump in, dive into your books, they'll look at what you do have or if you have anything, if you don't have anything to look at your bank statements for your business banking, your personal to determine what is the workload for this client. We don't charge people based on how much money they make and how much money they net we charge people based on what is it going to take us to service this client every month, three hours, four hours, five hours, and then we build our quote around that. That way, we don't care if someone's making $2 million a year and they're netting, you know, a million of it. We're not going to just be like, man, how can we get as much money as we can as a client, we don't do that stuff. We look at how many hours you take, that guy might have only, you know, 150 transactions for the entire year. So this book, you're going to be pretty cheap even though it is a million-dollar plan. a million millionaires, you know, we might have someone that makes 234 or $500,000 a year, but they're not netting very much. But they also have a crapload of, of transactions going through their bank accounts in there. And we're going to look our cloud-based software to maybe their handwriting checks, and we get checked, check images to properly categorize. And so there's like all these things that we got to do. And so that that takes more time, it's going to cost you more even though you make less money than the millionaire that's paying us less. It's all in how much time is going to take to service you. And we are going to find ways to help clean that up as well and, and give you better savings on your account. So,ya know, I think that that is its key to understand kind of what that process looks like. Because a lot of people they're scared of the unknown. And we've already talked about this. They're scared of the unknown. So when we can eliminate some of those barriers, what is it? Is it like a one and done type thing or is it a continued relationship of saving like what were you what do you what type of clients are you looking for? Because I know there's a lot of good out there and And I want to make sure that people listening to this and know exactly what you're looking for calling in and wasting your time,we do get a ton of people referred to us and startup phase of their business. So a lot of times they can't afford like an ongoing expense. So we just try and do our best to advise them. But we will do one time services. So someone needs an LLC set up and ask for multiple LLC, whatever it is, you know, we have those one-time services where we can form those entity docs for you and make sure that they're set up properly. From a tax standpoint, we have tax planning, which is just kind of a one time service unless you want ongoing tax planning. So we do have those and done type services. And sometimes people go out of business, it doesn't work out, we don't hear from them and them other than if they want to dissolve that entity, later on, you know, which will do. But we do aim to earn the long term clients. So we'd like guys that are in their first 234 or five years in business that haven't gained a whole lot of financial expertise. They're very are pretty ignorant, but they don't want to get into those tax troubles and those tax breaks. People like my dad growing up. We love this type of client because we know we can help them solve a lot of problems before they even happen. But yeah, we want them on our bookkeeping services and our tax prep services we will our tax prep everything into like a membership style. So if we have someone that's bookkeeping, tax preparation, ongoing tax planning, which is a great product, we also throw in unlimited tax consulting so we're not like your traditional accounting firm or CPA firm where every time you call us you know, you get an hourly bill like an attorney, you know, we give unlimited tax consulting so if you are because your business is going to be ever-changing like if you're not trying to buy a new vehicle for maybe your plumbing business or something like or maybe it's a personal vehicle, but you're going to use it personally for business what is the best thing to do? Well, I'm calling my accountant over it easier accounting. Let me see if I can, you know, lease this vehicle. Is that a better tax ramp? Or should I purchase it? You know, what's the deduction? What's the difference? How much is going to save me? What are my options, and so we do get people that use us for those types of scenarios all the time? But that's why we throw unlimited tax consulting into all of our members. Yeah, I love that. Cool. So this is where's the best place to connect with you? Is it online Instagram? like where's the best place to contact you guys? Um yeah, so we do have an Instagram easier accounting we also have one where we do just business advice and things like that as well on top of just two counties called out real business owners. That's all on Instagram, but most people contact us through our website you can get on there and chat you can look up our phone number you come to see us it's just easier accounting.com and then you can Yeah, you can also always just give us a call our numbers 888620070 but but ya know, most people get online, they chat with us or they call and set up a time with us, you know, reach out to us so, but they can find us on social media and online as well. So awesome.Love it. So this is the second favorite part of the whole episode right now. It's called legacy on rapid-fire. Looking for one word to one sentence. answers to these questions, guys five questions. And the first question is what do you believe is holding you back from reaching the next level of your legacy today? What is holding me back?I have to allow myself to give up control in some of the areas that I am head up. I've got to start creating systems for someone to replace me so I can work on other things in my business as well.Awesome. And what do you think the hardest thing you've ever accomplished has beenthe hardest thing I've ever accomplished? Hmm.Man, you know what?My family. I went through my very first marriage. I'm on my second marriage right now. And I went through a really bad marriage. You know, I grew up in a bad marriage. And there were a lot of bad habits there. And there's a lot of, you know, a lot of bad things that I had to fix. And so I had to get my ego in check. I got therapy for years, with my wife trying to make that marriage work. It didn't work. I continued going And now like a lot of people tell me, the grass isn't going to be greener on the other side. But at the end of the day it is if you choose for it to be like, I put a lot of work into fixing me so that I could be a better business owner, a better husband, a better father, everything but a lot of work into that years and years of working on me. But my family is happy. We have so much gratitude in our home, but it wasn't easy. I did show a shift in who I was to accomplish that.That's awesome. And what do you think the greatest success at this point in your life has been?Maybe she's the family for that one.If you if you wantit can be I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, that is my real why that is my real passion is my family man. Like that's where my hundred percent my effort is. It's the reason I do what I do. But I love it. I love helping other people to you know that that is a huge part of my passion as well. And I love what we've built here. We've built a culture in our company that every single day person you talk to you wants to help you, they don't just want to get you off the phone. They want to give you the time that you need the advice that you need. So I love the culture that we build. So from a business standpoint, I love the culture that we've built here. That's awesome.Yeah. What is one secret the wave contributes most to your success?Other people, man, you can't do it alone. And so I had to become a better leader and get people to buy into what I was doing, what my mission was, what my vision was, to create the success not only for us but for our clients and our company. And so, I think that you, you've got to be a great leader and get people to buy into you and your vision and back it up to you can't just get people to buy into something that you don't fully believe in, back it up. You know, like actions speak louder than words, right?Absolutely. No, that's awesome. So what if you had two or three books that you would recommend to feel your legacy audience, what would you recommend?Yeah, so one of the first books that I read was password protection Bible by Jim. And because I want to understand more about entities and how they can protect me from a legal standpoint, and how they can help me from a tax standpoint, and he covers a lot of that. And also my early days, I learned a ton on Dan Kennedy's loopholes of the rich. And I read these books because I want to be better at my onboarding process for the company. I worked for them as an accounting firm before one of my own. And so if you're looking for more tax knowledge, dude, that's a great book. And then recently, a recent book was the power of zero. I love how he breaks down in simple language, how people can start planning for the future. And that's why I talked a little bit about the podcast about like, dude, like, we're in the lowest tax rates in decades, right now, we need to take advantage of that because it's not going to stay that way, the way that Congress has it, to where it's going to automatically go back up in 2026 and There's probably going to go higher there because of the national debt crisis and everything else. Like it helps you understand, like what you need to be doing right now and taking advantage of the time right now with the situation that we're in as a country and our tax rates. So I think that's a huge thing to understand to get ahead of the game in your finances, too.Yeah, absolutely. I love it. This is the favorite question of the whole episode. This is why I say or for last, but it's because we get to pretend that you're dead. Just right. You're excited about that? No, but it's about legacy. And so the question is, if if you were to pretend that you're dead, and where you got the opportunity to kind of view your great-great, great, great-grandchildren. So six generations away from now they're sitting around a table discussing your life, they're discussing the legacy that you left, what do you want them to be saying six generations from now about you?Man, hopefully, they're saying I wish grandpa was still alive so that I could ask to pick his brain on some things. You know, I mean, because that is one of my goals man, like, I want to be that pillar of my family. I want to be the guy that can give actual wisdom to my kids and my kid's kids and, and everything else. Man, I hope that I can pass information down from generation that benefits my entire family for decades to come. Butyeah, I knowthat is my goal. At the end of the day, I've been asked the question about what my ultimate goal is, and it's like, it's not $1 figure.It's notit's not a certain amount to sell my business for. It's not any of these crazy things right now. It's like wisdom, like what can I offer in you know, for my generations to come with my family and so that is going to be the ultimate level of success for me is like what, what kind of family have I created, what kind of what are they adding to the world as well? And so that that is my ultimate goal. But Hopefully, hopefully, they're saying, you know, and hopefully with social media and everything like that, they actually get the opportunity to go back and look at that kind of stuff like everybody should be like posting and sharing their story online now because that is the people are going to be looking at is the generations to come the the people that are your great-great, great-grandchildren. And hopefully, there's a lot to learn there. But hopefully, hopefully, that hopefully they're looking back and saying, Wow, like what a great example we had in our family and how much she was able to teach my dad and my dad's dad and everything else so and I wish he was still here so I could pick his brain as well.Yeah, that is awesome. I love this whole episode. I love everything about it. I'm super grateful. Kale is going to be speaking with me at door to door con in January. So super excited to get to jive. We're going to be on the same stage, same room, talking about finance, you know, making sure that people can understand and implement some tactical things to change their life. If you are in any form of that industry, any sales industry doesn't have to be door to door. It's any person to person or business to the business industry. Door to Door con is going to have some major major players Ed my let Tim Grover and john Stockton I think is his name. Oh, wow. I mean there's a lot of people going to be there who are heavy heavy hitters in not just the personal development sphere but business in general. They're major leaders in business and they're going to be there speaking. You don't want to miss it that the tickets are not that expensive for what you're getting. It's going to be at Salt Palace in Salt Lake on I believe the 16th through the 18th of January. And you're not gonna want to miss that but kale and I'll be there jamming it up on stage.I'm an excited man.Yeah, it's good. It's going to be a good time. And then also we'll have some boosts there that we can do if you're interested in talking more one on one will be there to you chat about that. And yeah, just super excited to grateful for you and for your time that you've taken out of your day to be on the fuel your lazy podcasts and add that value. And some people's lives are going to change which is gonna be awesome. Somy pleasure, man, I can't wait to share some things about our episode today. And, you know, hopefully, gets you on our podcast near future as well. They love that. So I love that as well.Well, thank you so much, and we'll catch you guys next time on fuel your legacy.Thanks for joining us if what you heard today resonates with you please like comment and share on social media tag me and if you do give me a shout out I'll give you a shout out on the next episode. Thanks to all those who love to review it helps spread the message of what it takes to build a legacy that lasts and we'll catch you next time on fuel your legacy.Connect more with your host Samuel Knickerbocker at:https://www.facebook.com/ssknickerbocker/?ref=profile_intro_cardhttps://www.instagram.com/ssknickerbocker/https://howmoneyworks.com/samuelknickerbockerIf this resonates with you and you would like to learn more please LIKE, COMMENT, & SHARE—————————————————————————

If you're thinking of starting your own channel, you might have a few expectations that could be far off from reality. In today's podcast, Nate Woodbury breaks down expectations from reality in working for YouTube based on his own experience as a producer for himself and other clients, so keep listening! I'm a producer for 13 different YouTube channels. Been at this for a while and I had some expectations at the beginning that have not been met. And others that were exceeded. So, I'm going to dive into that and just let you know what to expect. Now, the other day I watched Gillian Perkins version of this video. All of her answers were awesome and they're completely different than mine. So, I do recommend you check out her video or her channel there. She's got a real cute personality. And she puts a lot of detail into... Her videos are actually really helpful. So, I recommend checking out Gillian. Now, the first expectation that I had. I expected to achieve will just say big things within a 6 to 12 month time line. And I have achieved big things. But the first... I don't know. The shortest stint is probably 36 months for me to achieve big things on a channel. We're talking huge things. You know, hundreds of thousands of dollars per month. But I just... My expectations were a lot quicker. 6 to 12 months. Really took 36 months. Looking at a lot of other channels, I mean, I see the same thing in them. I really see that YouTube is a long-term play. You can't just start a campaign and expect to be making Bank 6 months from now. One thing that actually surprised me... My strategy is business backed. So, I wasn't really planning on making a whole lot of ad revenue. I have a lot of friends that that's their main monetization strategy even to the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars a month. But that wasn't my strategy. It's just different types of content. They make entertainment content I make how-to content that drives leads into a website. And the cool thing is last month, my ad revenue from YouTube... YouTube paid me $16,000. That was unexpected. But that is a welcome. Surprise. I am not sending it back. Alright. Another expectation that this is kind of a recurring one. Sometimes I'll make a video the ones, that I expect to go viral don't go viral. And that's kind of a trend. I don't have videos that go viral. Mine are all very strategic and it works and we're doing well. But I guess I get discourage. Every time I'm just making amazing video, "This one's going to be great." And my tribe likes the video and whatnot. But I just expect it to go viral. You know, some news station or some famous blog or some big influence around Facebook will take that and post it. So, all my videos even the ones that have had of views, none of them went viral. They all got pushed by YouTube itself not because of some social virality or anything like that. Okay. I expected to make money from Amazon's affiliate program. I mean thought, "Yeah, I use a lot of Amazon products. I buy stuff on Amazon." So, I should link to it all the time. And I linked to it a lot. And I don't think I've made a dollar. I don't think I've made a dime on affiliate revenue from Amazon. So, that was an expectation. I mean, I have a friend who that's where he makes his main source of revenue. I don't know what I'm doing different than him. I haven't, you know... I guess focused on that approach. But I thought that I would have at least made something. Another expectation I had in the beginning is that I believed that I could eventually hire someone else to do the editing. And this one is true. This one is true. I've got a whole team of video editors because I produced 13 channels and you know that I'm not doing the editing on all 13 channels. That would just be nuts. And so I'm glad that that one turned out to be reality. It's really... Well, I was going to say it's easy. It takes time and I've got other videos where I talk about that about why I hire people in the Philippines. You can link to that right up there. But it is a reality. You can hire people to a 100% edit your videos. Now, on the flip side, I didn't think that I'd ever be able to hire somebody to do the filming for me or my clients. I don't know why. I decided to try it a year ago. And it kind of worked out with the first person I tried. But then the second person I tried, needless to say she's still working with me. And the third person I tried she's still working with me. So, I've got 2 amazing people on my filming team. And I didn't expect that. If you would have asked me years ago, well I talked about it. I just I said, "Yeah, I just can't imagine that somebody could do the same job that I do." Anyway. And so that's where I've been proven wrong. I didn't think I could do it. And I did glad I did, of course. Okay. This one surprised me. When I meet people, you know, you have the standard conversation. "Hey, what is it that you do? What do you do?" And I tell them "I'm a YouTube producer." And you know, asked me what that is. So, when they find out what I do, the thing that surprising is what goes on in their mind. A lot of people will say, "Oh! Well, my 12-year old really wants to be a YouTuber and I ask more questions about it and they always dream of playing video games and making a living on YouTube." All the time. This is like a recurring thing that happens every time I meet somebody and they're not in the YouTube world already. They'll just say, "Oh! YouTube producer. Tell me about that. What is that? Wow, I ought to have you talk to my daughter. I got to have you talk to my son. So, I'm going to start mentoring them to become YouTube gamers." And that I just didn't expect that. I don't know how to make money by putting video games. That would be fun. That would be pretty cool. I have no idea how to do that. So parents out there, don't send your kids to me that want to be gamers on YouTube. Alright. In the beginning, if you go back and watch some of my earlier videos, I was way more reserved than I am now. So, you think of me of calm people said like I've got the zen-like personality. And you know, that's cool. I like... But I'm more dynamic. I mean, I use facial expressions. I can talk conversationally. And the biggest difference is I thought that I would use a teleprompter forever. Because back then I had to spend all this time writing a script, writing it out word-for-word. Putting on a teleprompter. So, I'm looking at the lens but I would be able to see the words going up and down. Or not down. But scrolling up, right? And it started to work. And it was a big help for me at the time. It gave me a big boost of confidence. They helped me be a lot more efficient. And because it was working for me, I required all of my clients to use a teleprompter. Even some that that were resistant. They like, I speak all the time. I don't need a teleprompter. So, I got a little thing in my eye. One person I remember specifically Felicia Slattery. Great friend of mine. She's been friend of mine for years now. She was pretty resistant. And yet, she  was coaching us is like, "Alright Nate, I'm going to do it." And her videos did well. So, I mean my coaching paid off but knowing what I know now, yes, she didn't have to use a teleprompter. Like I required her to. What goes beyond that is when you can be conversational. I mean right now, I've got bullet point notes of each thing that I want to talk about. I just look down, "Okay, well we're not going to talk about next." And so, I've got notes. I prepare that a lot quicker than a script oh and I can take an hour in preparing a script for a video where I've worded it out. And there's lots of disadvantages to that. So anyway, I could talk more about the pros and cons of a teleprompter, whatnot. But that was definitely unexpected --is I thought that, "Yep, teleprompters. I'm going to be using those. That's just going to get easier and easier from here." Okay. This one's actually pretty similar to Gillian. But I I think it's because I have good filters set up. So, I expected to get a lot of mean rude hate type comments on my own channel. I don't get them. But I set up really good filters. In fact, Grant Thompson who passed away a few months ago. Amazing channel. The channel still going. He created a legacy that's still moving on. The King Of Random. Amazing channel. So, Grant shared his swear word list. He sent out this big long document of swear words that you could copy and paste and put it into the YouTube filters. So, that anyone that used that type of language in their comments would be filtered out. And I used his filter and it works really, really good. So, I don't really get hate comments. Maybe it's because of that or maybe people are just nice. So, I like that. I'm glad that my expectation was not met there. Okay, this next one is interesting. I have a pretty awesome successful... Hugely successful strategy that I developed. It's my keyword research strategy. My leaf strategy. I kept this a secret for many years. Do you know why? Because I expected that when people learned what my strategy was, that everyone out there would start copying it. They would start using it and compete with me. It didn't happen. I started teaching my strategy. No one uses my strategy except for my clients. It works. I mean, what do I mean by it works? I can make a video. First of all, I do keyword research. I find a title. Then I make that video and I give that video that title I put it on YouTube. And it ranks on the top of YouTube on day one. It's an amazing strategy. It's an amazing strategy. And what I thought would happen is that all other YouTubers, all other SEO knowledgeable people would change their ways to follow my unique strategy. And it hasn't happened once. Hasn't happened. My clients implement it. My clients implement it and that's it. So, I still think it's really strange. But now you know how valuable my strategy, isn't that you should implement it. So, that is definitely the video that you should what next. I'll link to it right there and it's up there and a card as well. Watch my leaf strategy video. This will change the game on how you can get results on YouTube.

Zach discusses building learning communities with ChangeNerd CEO and founder Brian Hampton. Brian talks a bit about ChangeNerd, a digital learning community that supports change management practitioners and inspires innovation, and he also offers some advice for black and brown folks who are looking to build a learning community of their own.Connect with Brian on LinkedIn!Check out ChangeNerd's home page and follow them on LinkedIn! Want to become a member of the community? Click here!Visit our website!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now look, you know what we do. We have authentic conversations about being black and brown in the corporate space. Now, corporate space makes it sound really fancy, right? Like you're wearing a suit and a tie, you know, maybe sometimes you have to actually put some lotion on your ankles. That's not what I mean, right? I just mean the place that you actually have to work, right? Living Corporate is a place that amplifies the voices of black and brown people at work, okay? And how do we do that? We do that with authentic conversations with black and brown executives, entrepreneurs, influencers, educators, public servants, creatives, activists, right? And we do that in just, like, one-on-one conversations, sometimes we'll do a two-on-one, sometimes we'll do a three-on-one, sometimes we have, like, a--you know, we mix it up, but the point is we're having real talk, and that's why our tag line is what? Real talk in a corporate world. All of that being said, y'all know we're having dope conversations every time y'all hear this podcast, and today is no different. Today we're talking to Brian Hampton. Brian is the CEO and founder of ChangeNerd, a company that supports change management practitioners and inspires innovation. Brian, welcome to the show. How are you doing, man?Brian: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, Zach. I really appreciate it.Zach: For those of us who don't know you, why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself?Brian: Yeah. So, you know, I started ChangeNerd. It's primarily a digital learning community. I started it to really bring professionals together, because for us who do change management and help organizations adopt new ways of working, we really just tend to be heads-down, working on our projects, and I wanted to create a way for us to just connect and share best practices. Prior to launching ChangeNerd, I consulted at Deloitte. I also led change management teams at different companies, both private and non-profit. So I love the field. I'm super passionate about it, and I'm glad to talk about it today.Zach: Yeah, man. You know, and coming from a change background myself, you know, I don't see a lot of black men in this space, right? I don't really see a lot of black folks period, but I definitely don't see a lot of black men specifically and just black and brown men in general in the space. Can we talk a little bit about, of all the professions you could have chosen, like, what about change management got you?Brian: Yeah. This is real cool, this is real cool. Nice question, and--great question, actually. So I went to college in undergrad for criminal justice and then soon realized there was no real money behind it, and so I jumped into HR, jumped into the federal government, and at around 2008, 2010, I felt like HR was kind of flat, and then I was introduced to change management because the agency I was at at the time, we were implementing PeopleSoft, and so I was formally introduced to change management, and I really couldn't believe this was a full-time job, right? 'Cause it's really around just working with people and helping them, you know, really adopt new ways of working. And I'm like, "Wow, people get paid doing this?" So I did some research and saw that the pay was decent, and so I jumped into the field. So yeah, I thought--at the time I thought HR was boring, and change management seemed to be the new thing, and there's some really strong transferable skill sets from HR to change management, and so I took the leap.Zach: Man, you know, that's 100%, and it's interesting because my career was a little bit the same. I think we talked about this off the mic, but, like, I started as an HR manager at Target and then transitioned into org design and just being, like, a specialist, right? And then eventually formed all the way into change management. And you're absolutely right, a lot of it's transferable, but you know what's interesting? I think a lot of it isn't, because--I do agree that often times HR gets a tough rep as just being, like, the benefits folks, right? And kind of helping with ER issues, but really they're just kind of--they're almost like the security guards of the company, but they don't have a gun. They've got, like, a roll of quarters to call the peace when it gets really scary, you know? They might have a flashlight so that they can look at you while you're doing something wrong, but they don't really have any actual, you know... come on, man. Yeah, so anyway. Okay, cool. So look, we're talking today about building learning communities, right? ChangeNerd is a learning community, like you said at the top, but to start, like, how would you define a learning community, and what are the benefits of being in a learning community?Brian: Well, you know, quite honestly--and, you know, the whole theme of this podcast is corporate--you know, corporate living, and if you're in corporate, your organization is more than likely changing. It's using and bringing on new technology, new processes, you know, organizations are trying to be competitive, so all of that activity is happening, and what that means for the individual person is that you have to take ownership of your own journey, your own learning journey. And so the best way to do that is really tap into some type of social learning community, and that's part of the reason why I created ChangeNerd. There was nothing out there specifically for, you know, professionals who spend a lot of their time in project management, change management, and so I wanted to create a community for us folks. And, you know, what I'm noticing after doing this just for 12 months is that it's extremely beneficial. We got thousands of people in the community, both at the executive level and, you know, practitioner level, and the people love the community because they can take charge and, you know, tap in whenever they want to tap in. It's LinkedIn on a much smaller scale, you know? And there's beauty in having access to like-minded people. So if you're on a project and you're struggling, you know you're only a button away or an email away from getting help, and that's what it's all about, and for us, we tend not to have those strong networks when it comes to corporate, and so--you know, I'll be honest with you. I'll share this story. Deloitte was--working at Deloitte was the hardest--and it was fun, but it was extremely difficult, primarily because I didn't have that network. Even tapping into, you know, the African-American BRG, it's still tough for us to connect with the right people, people that we can trust in the corporate atmosphere. And so, you know, yeah, you go to work every day and you build a network there, but there's nothing like building an even broader network outside of your organization to give you the confidence you need to be successful.Zach: Man, you know, you're 100% right. And it's interesting. Like, as organizations, or just as technology continues to grow... like, at first the draw of technology and, like, social networking was size, right, and scope. Like, "You can reach anybody anywhere!" Like, you know, big numbers were attractive, right? So if you could say--you know, you say LinkedIn, like, millions of people use LinkedIn every day, right? But then, like, the disconnect is "Okay, what does it look like for me to actually touch somebody?" 'Cause I don't really need to touch a million people. I [may only?] really need to touch, like, 15. So what do I need to do to make sure that I can actually touch those, you know, less than 20 people that I actually need? And so it's just interesting as you see, like, communities change or digital communities change and evolve that, you know, we're noticing that size isn't everything, you know what I mean?Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, building a community around, you know, your role or your aspirations professionally, it's an ongoing journey, and what I will say is--here's the major benefit, right? If you got 100 people, because you were diligent, and let's say you spent, you know, three to six months really building a community around you or tapping into an existing one, and you now have 100 people that you trust that you know you can reach out to. If you get laid off, if you want to go independent and start your own agency. You know, if something bad happens to you, you've got 100 people who got your back, and that's what it comes down to. I can't--you know, just in doing this community, you know, ChangeNerd, I can't tell you the amount of people that I've been able to help, you know? So-and-so got laid off? Oh, I know this partner at this firm, right? And there's a trust that's built. And so, you know, submitting your resume becomes more of a--it's something that happens afterwards, right? Because of trust, that organization is pretty much gonna bring you on, right? And so your resume becomes a formality after the fact, and so, like, that's the beauty of having a network and being tapped in to a digital learning platform or any social learning community that you have.Zach: Yeah, man. You know, it's interesting. You talked about some of your challenges at Deloitte and, like, the barrier being you not having that community, formally or informally, right? So, like, based on your experiences, what advice or, like, what lessons learned would you be able to share and kind of what would you be able to give to black and brown folks today who are looking to build those types of spaces for themselves for their own professional development?Brian: To be honest with you, it's a journey. It's a journey, and the reality is you don't know what you don't know. Years ago when I was at Deloitte, I don't think I had the right mindset, you know? You know, they hired me for a job, you know, primarily to do deliverables on projects, and that's what I did, but to be successful, there are--there are so many other competencies there, you know? You've got to be able to manage up. You've got to be able to build relationships. And, you know, when it comes to corporate, a lot of times, you know, I know for me and probably for the folks that are listening to this podcast, sometimes you may be one of the few black or brown people in a room, and it's difficult to raise your hand, and it's difficult to bring your perspective without being judged, but over time with the right experiences you get really good at it. But honestly, I don't know if there's any advice that I can give to anyone other than, you know, go for it. Continue to build your network out. But ultimately, it's your journey, and you have to own your own learning process, regardless of what type of, you know, leadership development programs you find yourself into. You have to own your own learning. Tapping into a network is beneficial, but just recognize that relationship building and having the ability to build trust with others, those are the things that you'll learn along the way.Zach: Man, well, let's do this. Let's talk about ChangeNerd, because I do get folks who hit me up, right? I have old colleagues, I have people in different, like, just social networks who hit me up about getting into change management. Let's talk about ChangeNerd, you know, why the name, the journey you got there, and then just where people can learn more about it.Brian: Yeah. So it's funny, I knew I wanted to bring--well, I'll tell you this. Me and the team, we were building an app. So we built this nice, sophisticated change management app, and as I was trying to sell it to different companies I realized that change management teams didn't really have the budget for it, so we scrapped it. But I ran into--I live in the Chicago area. I found six large companies all implementing SAP all struggling at the same point in time, right? And it was that moment where I realized "Wow, I need to build a community, because we're just working way too siloed." So I launched the community. And the community is free to join, and every week I interview a subject matter expert around--and we talk about some area surrounding organizational best practices, and every so often we offer virtual courses and we also offer in-person events. And so, you know, when people think of ChangeNerd, I want them to think about the learning community, because at the heart that's what it is. We pay the bills by consulting different companies, but we try to spend the bulk of our time just enriching the learning community.Zach: Well, that's incredible, man. So talk to me about where--at what point did you realize that ChangeNerd was, like, "Okay, wow. This is something serious." Like, this is an actual--so I'm not gonna say it's a movement because that's mad corny.Brian: It is. [laughs]Zach: It's mad corny. People always--man, sidenote. Man, people always talking about "it's a movement, it's a movement." So many--how is everything moving? Brian: I know, I know. So let me tell you how I knew it was real. It got real for me when I got an email. I got an email from an HR VP that said "Hey, Brian. We want to fly you to Boston, and we want you to do a series of workshops for our supply chain leadership," right? That's when it got real for me. So I replied back. I'm like, "Do you have budget?" And they told me the budget, and via email within, like, literally 5 minutes we negotiated budget. That's when it got real for me, because what I found out was when you tap into a community or if you build a community, right, you're automatically building trust with people, right? And so when they see you they trust you because you're giving out good insight, you're giving out--you know, you're helping them, and when opportunities pop up they reach out to you. And so, you know, first it started out as a speaking engagement, right? And I didn't have to give them documents and compete with other firms. They wanted me. That's when I knew. I told my wife, "Honey, this is--like, this is real money," right? And then the phone calls came, you know? Head of IT from this company, head of HR from this company. "Brian, we want to get your perspective," right? And they knew that, you know, I wasn't gonna do it for free, and so they came with the budget, and so it's just--when you have that network of people, you're able to help people, and they can help you as well. And so to be honest with you, that's how I knew that this could be something real, when I started getting emails of different companies, from different companies, that needed my help.Zach: Well, talk to me about what you've been most excited about that ChangeNerd has accomplished, and as you look at 2020, what are you most looking forward to?Brian: Yeah. So when it comes to change management, you have major training companies really trying to control the narrative. You have--I won't call out any names here, but you have companies, you know, controlling the narrative. What I'm so proud of is with me interviewing different subject matter experts every week, it just opens the opportunity for the narrative to change, right? And so for change management not to be come, like, an academic exercise. And so for people not to be locked into one particular framework, and for more stories and experiences to be told. As we move into 2020, we're going to get a little bit more niche. We're gonna have little--well, not little, but smaller digital communities. So change management in health care, change management in non-profits, change management in financial services. We're gonna have digital communities by industry, by specialty, just to give people access to more practical advice. So that's something I'm looking forward to as we move into 2020.Zach: All right, man. Now, look, I wouldn't be a platform if I didn't give you a space to actually plug ChangeNerd. So, like, where can we learn more about it? What's the content? What's the information? Of course we'll have it in the show notes, but go ahead and shout it out right here.Brian: Yeah. So you can dive right in to the online community by going to community.changenerd.com. Community.changenerd.com. That will put you right into the community. Go ahead and join. It's totally free, and I look forward to seeing you there.Zach: All right. Now look, everybody--y'all heard him, okay? So y'all driving, you walking, you're doing whatever you do, you heard what he said. Community.changenerd.com. It'll be in the show notes. And y'all be clicking the links. We look at the Bit.lys. We see that y'all clicking stuff, but you ain't gotta do it. You heard me, right? So you heard Brian, you heard Zach. Just go ahead and click that thing. Now Brian, before we let you get up out of here, any shout-outs or parting words?Brian: No. Zach, I love what you're doing, and it's podcasts like this that really help people like us move forward, so I appreciate the effort that you're doing. And if you're listening to this episode, I would encourage you to reach out to me, and hopefully I can be of help to you, and that's pretty much it. But Zach, I'm very proud of the work that you're doing.Zach: [air horns sfx] Man, them air horns is for you and for me, man. I appreciate you, man. I thank you, and I appreciate the work that you're doing, right? You're demystifying change management. You're creating a space for folks who are interested in change management and who are already established change management practitioners to engage, learn, and build. And this is not an ad. So yeah, just shout-out to you. Shout-out to ChangeNerd. And listen, y'all, this does it for us on the Living Corporate podcast. Thank you for checking in. Now look, y'all typically know I kind of put all the ats and stuff, but every now and then I just kind of flex on 'em, just a little flex. Sometimes I'll just say "Google us." [Flex bomb sfx] You know? Just Google Living Corporate. Just "Living Corporate," right? We're on everything. We're on all of the streaming platforms. We're on Instagram at @LivingCorporate. We're on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, right? And then if you want to check out the website, again, just Google us, Living Corporate, or you can type it in the browser - living-corporate, please say the dash, dot com. We're also livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.net. We've got all of the livingcorporates except, you know it, livigncorporate.com, 'cause Australia has--Brian, Australia has livingcorporate.com, man. Brian: That's crazy.Zach: Ain't that crazy? Yeah. So listen, y'all. Appreciate y'all. Listen, if you have any questions, anything you want to learn about change management, make sure that y'all contact Brian. We're gonna put all of his contact information down in the show notes. Until next time, this has been Zach, and you've been talking to Brian Hampton, CEO and founder of ChangeNerd, a digital learning community for change management professionals. 'Til next time. Peace.

  Doing your video outro isn't as difficult as doing the intro. All you need to do is give your audience a call to action! In today's episode, Karen Farfan practices her outro, as Nate coaches on her what to say, so listen on to learn more.   Alright Nate. So, on the last video, you taught me what to say in the beginning of each YouTube video. What about the closure? What do I say at the end of every video? -You've actually got a lot of options. So, we're going to practice several of them in this video. So, I'll show you how close your YouTube episode. So, it can be kind of funny when you're watching YouTube episodes. People can have awesome videos and then you get to the end. And there's just this awkwardness or like, "So, subscribe." And they do start acting weird and really.... One of my favorite channels, Studio C. They do sketch comedy. Their outros are awful. So, if you ever want to see some awful outros. Go watch their videos. Skits are hilarious. They're actors, they're really good at what they do but they're help shows are just awful. There's a lot of different ways that you can do this. Simplest one is just to invite people to subscribe. So, my recommendation is and we'll have you just do a simple practice is to keep it conversational. I like to joke. Sometimes I'll say, "If you watch this far, I'm sure you like this channel. So hit that subscribe button." Or you can you can be more instructive and say, "When you hit the subscribe button then a little bell will appear next to it. And if you click that, each time I upload a new video, YouTube will send you an email alert to let you know. So that way you can keep up to date on all of our daily episodes." So, I'm just going to have you practice and I'm sure you're going to be just amazing from the get-go. So, I'll step aside and just look right at the camera but be conversational. And thank people and invite them to subscribe. -Thank you so much for watching. Now, if you want to continue... Uh! Thank you very much for watching. Now, if you want to continue watching watching what I'm... Oh, my God. This is hard. Harder than I thought. Thank you so much for watching. I'm going to be posting every single day so if you want to continue watching, just subscribe them on the button below and you're gonna see a little bit and he will notify you when I have new material on. -Good job. -So.. It is intimidating. -It is intimidating. But you did great. So, let me give you another one to practice. Let's say we made... Say we made that video about Oliveira and acne. And you want people to comment below. So, try this out and then comment below. So, I could just give that invitation. -So, I'm very curious if you guys try to do this. So if you did, please comment below tell me what you think what are you thoughts, did it taste good? I would love to know. -Yeah. I think you did great. It was conversational. So, nice job. Other things that you can do you can invite people to like. The thing that I would recommend against is doing everything. So make sure you subscribe like comment below go visit me on Instagram and visit my website. I recommend having one main call-to-action at each video. When you get to the point where you've got a product or a service or a program that might relate... So, if you've got... I don't know. Like an acne coaching program or you've got probably more like a wellness program. So, let's say you made a video about using Oliveira for acne. I'll demo it and they'll have you practice, okay? So, if you made a video about Olivera juice and acne but you then want to transition into your wellness coaching program. You might say something like this: "So, hopefully enjoyed this episode about Oliveira and acne. And I actually teach a lot of different principles on wellness and being healthy and just enjoying life. I've got a wellness program that you're probably going to be interested in but I'll let you decide. And the link below you'll find free resource..." I'll just always make it simple. In the link below... In the link below there's something. -There's something free. You should go get it. You're an author, okay? You've written a book. "So, in the link below, you'll actually find a free copy of my book." And let's see... So I'm mixing up 2 things. I talked about a program. -I love the book idea. So, you want to write a self-care book. With all this beauty treats. -Okay. So, you have a... You have a... How this typically works is you'll give away your book for free. Maybe they'll pay shipping or something. But you... You give that away. But then there in your sales funnel and they'll get an email or notification about your course. It's a really good. That's one of the best working files out there. So I'll go ahead and end with that. So, hopefully you found this video helpful. I love to sharing this knowledge and in fact, I put a whole lot more information into my book. I cover ABCD and E. If you click the link below, you'll get a free copy of my book. I really hope you enjoy it and we'll see you tomorrow. -Well, I really hope you enjoy this video. If you want to know more beauty secrets, holistic beauty secrets. You can click on the link below and there's a copy of of my book completely for free. And I would love for you to get it. -It's really good. It sounded like a sales pitch. Just like... It's a freight. You sound alike a little bit hesitant. -Okay. -And maybe it's because you haven't read the book. But just try it one more time. It's like... Yeah, it's a free book. You're going to love it. It's really packed with information. Hope you enjoy it. -I really love sharing all this beauty tips. And in the link below, you can get a copy of my free book. -Short and sweet. Was really good. Nice job. So, at the end of the episode, it's not as critical as the beginning because they've already watched the whole episode. So, if you mess up, it's okay. But I recommend just putting in a call to action. And seeing which ones get you the best results. If you're noticing that one video, you invite people to subscribe. And you get a lot of subscriptions. Then you know you're doing that right. And if I'm a video, you're inviting people to get your free book, you can tell whether it's working or not. So, a YouTube analytics are really, really good. So, I just recommend trying different things and seeing what works and improving from there. So, I hope you found this helpful. And I'll close this out. We did talk about keyword research in this episode. But I talked about it all the time because that's how I get results on YouTube, is I do the keyword research the titles that we use. We use keyword research for that. So, if you want to know how to do keyword research the right way to find the questions that people are asking, then in the link below will find access to... You'll find like keyword research guide you get access to it for free. And we'll see in the next episode.

“Sometimes I'll start a sentence and I don't even know where it's going. I just hope I find it along the way......" - Michael Scott (The Office) And that really sums up this week's episode, lol!!! Listen in as Goldberg & Wadsy fill you in on all things #BarRated and get you ready for this week's offering of 53 FREE TRIVIA GAMES all across CT & MA!!! And to really get you excited, the pair have all the info that you need to get ready for our "The Office" themed trivia games happening the weekend of November 23rd, 2019! There's new locations for you to #TrainYourBrain at (such as White Dog Cafe in Portland, CT & Rocks 21 in Mystic, CT) and upcoming ones as well (like Elm City Social in New Haven, CT) so keep your ears peeled for that info as well! Oh, and Tom Brady is moving his family to Connecticut???Plus, like every week, we have for you the "Question of the Week" (win a World of Beer West Hartford prize pack), the Keating Agency Insurance #5PointPhrase and your N.E.R.D. (New England Rock Discovery) song of the week: "Kitten in a Tiger Suit" by Hartford's own Mission Zero!!! So thanks for checking out our BaR Rated Trivia podcast, and have phun this week at our games.....

Main Points: Meditation is for everyone; but it may need to be modified for Western meditators. Making meditation accessible can be done by looking at the physical positions associated with meditating, offering different types of meditation, tailoring meditation to your audience. Meditating can lower stress based on recent research.   00:47                                     This is the hundred and 17th episode of changing the face of yoga. And my guest today is Gin Carter. Gin is part of my meditation theme and she's also has a podcast about meditation. And it's called Meditation Monday's with Gin. And we're going just talk about her take on meditation, how she teaches it.                                                 She is used to be a conservation scientist. And she's changed to teaching yoga because she realized that all the science in the world won't save the planet unless people are willing to make the choices to implement that science. And she feels that by teaching yoga, she decreases people's stress, which allows them to make better choices for themselves and for the world. She teaches very alignment based asana, but also lots of practical yoga philosophy and meditation. And she has an incredible diversity of clients: young athletes to 911 dispatchers to 90 year olds doing chair yoga, which I think would be interesting to talk about how meditation fits in with each of those different groups. 02:11                                     Welcome. Gin. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about? 02:17                                     No, that was a great introduction. I will say I have not updated my podcast in a while, but there's a lot there already. I think about updating it sometime, but I've got a lot going on these days and I haven't done it, so I'm glad that you guys listened to it though. 02:34                                     I thought it was very interesting, one of the things I would like to talk about is you really do have a very diverse group of students. Young people, very stressed people, 911 dispatchers I would assume would be very stressed and 90 year olds. Do you have any way that you approach this? So that might be different for each group or do you think that meditation... 03:02                                     Oh, definitely. So I teach almost exclusively privately. So even when I'm with a group, it's a private group. They're not usually public classes. So I've been brought in specifically to work with that group or that individual. And so every time I teach its customized to whatever's going on with that individual or that group. So it's very different from class to class. Certainly the 15 to 25 year old athletes are doing very different things than the 90 year olds in the chair. 03:40                                     Is the meditation also different or is that a bit more universal? 03:45                                     So the meditation varies between groups between days and and between whatever we're focused on that day. Sometimes they're the same meditations, but depending on who is the audience, I often explain them slightly differently to make it a little more relatable to their life and what's ever going on with them at that time, if that makes sense. 04:09                                     No, that does. I listened to your first meditation podcasts and I thought you had very interesting way of going about it because you gave them some tips for meditation success. And I was wondering if you could kind of talk a little bit about that. 04:29                                     Sure. I think a lot of times we think that meditation has to be a certain way and I'm a big proponent that it doesn't, and so setting yourself up so that you're comfortable. Like you don't have to sit cross legged on the floor. Like it's not a requirement, I promise.. I think the most important thing as far as your position is that you're able to keep your spine long and you're able to breathe. So , if that means sitting in a chair with your feet planted on the ground, I usually, if people are sitting in chair encouraging not to rest against the back of the chair, but told yourself up and sit on the front. If you're sitting on the ground and it doesn't feel that great, you can elevate your hips so that your hips are in line with or higher than your knees. And that usually will take some of this stress out of your hips and your back and help you to sit up tall.                                                  Sometimes I have clients that both of those things just don't feel good and they're not accessible. And I love having people meditate in Savasana, laying down, because if it's straining you be in the position, you're definitely not going to get where you want to go in meditation. And so it's beautiful to sit in Lotus. I don't ever teach Lotus. I just don't. It's beautiful, but like you can get so many benefits of meditation without trying to get into some crazy pretzel pose. When you're in that pose and you're hurting, you're not going to be focused on the meditation. You're going to be focused on the pain in your body. I think there's some schools of meditation where that's kind of a part of it. Like you're meant to work through it and whatever.                                                 But I think for regular people, they can use meditation so much and making it easy for people to do is really important. I also think there's a lot of ideas about what it's supposed to be like if you can just sit in your mind quiet and it's going to be magic and that doesn't happen. And so meditation can work so many different ways , I think that's one of the things that people can realize is set themselves up for success. So there are so many different ways to go about it and you try something, it doesn't work for you. There's always different things to try. 07:17                                     so if I were really uncomfortable, If I were really uncomfortable sitting in Lotus, which I don't do lotus anymore, what would you suggest? Because I agree with you, if you're in pain, that's what you're thinking about. You're not thinking about the meditation or whatever it is that you want to think about. 07:36                                     I would tell you don't do Lotus. 07:39                                     Just stop that. 07:41                                     Yeah. I'm a firm believer, actually I, we could go on a lotus rant like I feel like in the Western world, we don't sit on the floor and we don't sit cross legged that much in our life up until the point where we think, oh, it might be good to do this meditation thing. Maybe I should try to sit like that or we started yoga and we tried to sit like that and so for a lot of us, our bodies aren't made to go that way. It's hard on our knees and our ankles to be in Lotus. It's also hard on our back to keep your spine long and its hard on our hips. For Western bodies. I'm not a fan. For bodies that started out sitting on the floor, that makes a lot of sense. But for most of us it just doesn't. And so I would advise you to come out of it.                                                 There's a few different ways you can sit on the floor, you can sit obviously in easy pose just cross-legged. You can kind of sit with one leg sort of folded in front of the other, which is I think what I do most of the time. But there's a few different variations. You have to see where that person's at as far as their seat goes, but there's a lot of different options other than trying to pretzel yourself into Lotus. 08:55                                     Okay. no, I think that's smart. I think you're right. We haven't really grown up sitting on the floor or squatting either one. That one I can't do very well either. You said there was lots of different kinds of meditations and there are. How do you match the meditation with the person or the group that you're going to be trying to teach this too? 09:28                                     I think it just depends on that group's needs. There's a bit of reading the room and reading the person or the people. I also sometimes I like to just cycle through different meditations to let my students experience them. And then I have some students that will really hone in and say when we did, heart-centered meditation or that breath-centered meditation, it really worked for me. And then we know that we'll do more of those kind of things for that person.                                                 But with my students, I do like to try a variety and kind of show them how there are all these different things that you can do so that they're aware. Then once they feel like they want to really start getting into it themselves and then you can kind of hone in on something. I think it benefits a lot of people to do different ones at different times. I change my meditation practice constantly. Sometimes I'll get going with one and focus on it for a few weeks or a few months. But I like to change it up because I think there are all these different techniques and each technique can kind of be a window into where you're trying to go. As human beings we can get complacent and we can get bored in a way. And so having a bunch of techniques in your tool belt to change that when you need to, I think it can be a really great thing. 11:02                                     Great, great idea. I think that's another rule, shall we say, of meditation that you do the same thing every day. 11:12                                     Right. 11:13                                     I hadn't thought about that and it's probably not true either. So what are the kinds of techniques that you try to cycle your your students through? 11:26                                     There's so many different ones now. 11:28                                     Okay. Pick your favorites. 11:29                                     There's kind of groupings. So there's breath focus meditations and those, I feel pair well with other meditations. So a lot of times we'll start with focusing on our breath in a certain way and then maybe we just stay with that. But maybe we also move to a mindfulness meditation where you can even pair that with breath in a way where you're being mindful of your breath or mindful of something.                                                 I love guided meditation as in visualizations. So really getting deep into a scene or something you're trying to imagine. I teach sometimes meditations that are very body focused, so giving different focus to different parts in the body depending on what meditation it is and that's kind of a mindfulness meditation tool. And they all kind of overlap in different ways.                                                 But there's so many different ones. I love it. I love learning different ones. One of my favorite texts is called The Vyana Buyerva and I think it has 112 or so. They're not all different meditations, Most of them are meditations, some of them are also just what we call pointing out instructions. with the idea that the state you're trying to get to in meditation is a state that you've been in many times in your life. We call that being in the flow. And so my favorite example of that is like a concert musician who doesn't even have to read his music and he's just playing right? And you can tell nothing else in the world is going on. He's just there completely present.                                                 There's some instructions that are about moments like that you can find in your life. So there's even sometimes instructions for students to think about those things. There's also open eyed meditations that are kind of mindfulness meditations, taking a walk and focusing only on the wall. And when your mind starts to wander, bringing it back to your feet, hitting the ground, the tree that you're seeing, the plant that you're seeing whatever it is as you're walking. So, yeah, there's so many different things we can do. 13:51                                     Okay. Interesting. What was the name of that book that has the mostly meditation's in it. So I can spell it right. 14:02                                     It's called the Vijnana Bhairava., so let's spell it. Let's see. I have to write it down to spell it right. Okay. So it'd be V I, J A. N. A. Yana.B H A I R. A. V. A. Yeah, it's an interesting older text. It's lots of little verses on meditation and pointing out instructions. And my meditation teacher, her name is Sallie Kempton, she has a downloadable, or you can buy a CD called Doorways to the Infinite, and she actually walks you through that whole entire text. It's really lovely. 14:54                                     Doorways to the Infinite, I'm writing this down. Okay. So if somebody was out there and they said, well, I don't know how to meditate and I'm not sure I want to do that, what would you tell them that might be a benefit for them. 15:15                                     I would encourage them and tell them that it really doesn't have to fit what do you think in your mind It is, like what it is that you're resisting. Because I imagine usually they're thinking I'm just supposed to sit still and my mind is supposed to be quiet. I can't do that and I don't want to do that. I would tell them that it can become this beautiful thing that you look forward to. And in fact it can be a very actively-minded thing.                                                  I believe rather than getting your mind to be quiet, you really trying to get your mind to focus. So to focus on one particular thing so that it becomes nice and easy and isn't fluctuating about. And so I think sometimes by explaining that to people so that they understand that it's not just trying to sit and be quiet but rather really to help them tame their monkey mind. Because I think we all have that wild mind that wants to flux about.                                                 There's a lot of science now behind the benefits of meditation. So I often bring that up. There was a recent study, actually from Harvard now I want to say like in March that actually showed that the genes involved in stress are downregulated and the genes involved in the relaxation response, which is the opposite of stress, are upregulated which I think is incredible to show.                                                 Well, when we meditate, there have also been other studies that actually show that our brain gets rewired. There's science behind it. It's not just this hand-waving, yoga teacher thing to do. Like it really makes a big difference. When I go and speak with the 911 dispatchers and first responders and folks like that, we really try to emphasize, the science behind why we're there to teach them what we teach them. And we really give them very practical ways of meditation.                                                  I also encourage people and tell them, no, it doesn't have to be that long. You don't have to sit for four hours even; five minutes or seven minutes or three minutes or 12 minutes has tremendous benefits. I think that takes away the intimidation factor. Oh, I just have to do this for a couple of minutes so it doesn't have to be this whole day long thing. 17:45                                     Well I noticed that you said you were on a mission to make meditation accessible and I you're starting to talk a bit about that, but is there anything else that you would add that you're doing to make it accessible? 18:02                                     I mentioned it a little bit, but I feel like making it practical and making it not so hand wavy and soft and out there. I think is really important to let people see oh, this is a thing that I can use. Like right now in my life in five minutes, even when I'm at work or my kid is being crazier, my partner is stressing me out: just a couple minutes next with my breath. It can be such a useful thing. It doesn't have to be this thing where you think you have to go and sit on a mountain for hours alone? Right. It's something you can really use. And so I think expressing that, to be willing to making it practical is very important. 18:53                                     I recently had a guest on and she was my first student. I was so excited. She said that when she went to her very first yoga class, she was in a very high stress position at work and she had a lot of medical issues because of it. And it was just too much, too quiet. And you say you work a lot with people that have stress, so how do you get them from that really high stress position to meditation? 19:25                                     I believe that meditating with a teacher, at least at first, is super important. So having that guide so that it's not just you sitting and being quiet and I don't know what was going on in her first yoga class. But what I specifically know, maybe the teacher was guiding and it was still a struggle for her, but maybe the teacher had given them quiet. The quiet is important, but I like to get people there slowly.                                                 You listened to my podcast. I talked for quite a bit at the beginning of the meditation usually. I think that's one of the really important things is to start with a teacher. And I mean, I'm a big advocate, keep going with the teacher. I've been with my meditation teacher for almost 10 years and there's something powerful in having a teacher that can guide you especially when you're in those places where you are just beginning or you're in really high stress. Because there is a bit of a transference- an energy transfer?                                                 I also do Hawaiian bodywork called Lomi Lomi and we talk about energy work. And I think a lot of times people, like I don't really know what that's about, but I tell people anytime you enter a room, you're doing an energy exchange, right? Whether you realize it or not. And if you've in a room where people are really calm and like a crazy person, not a crazy person, but a person who's really high energy comes in and there's this energy exchange. Something else is happening now. And so the same goes in reverse. So if you can be in the presence of a teacher who's guiding you and grounding themselves and really settling in, that can really help you get going with your practice in that moment and, and going forward. 21:25                                     Okay, I agree with you and making it accessible. But it is maybe for western consumers a very different way to think about it and, just to use your brain that way. I think it can be very difficult sometimes for people to really feel it is good for them. How are you breaking down those stereotypes? 21:56                                     Well that's interesting. So I believe that people are not going to do something until they're ready for it or until they need it. I wouldn't just walk up to people on the street and say you should meditate. There has to be a moment where there's a connection; where there's either a need and the person is obviously reaching out for help or they've already seen oh, this is kind of something I want to try or something I know I need.                                                 I don't tend to talk directly about meditation when I first meet people randomly through whatever reason. But I will see where they're at and see if it fits inappropriately because I teach yoga and I do the body work that I do. Sometimes people come in through those two avenues first. Then I hone in on actually, maybe we should try this meditation thing. With Yoga students, I think there's a magic in pairing up the movement of your body with introducing new ideas. I think we're more receptive when we're doing kinesthetic things. I think there's science behind that, but it's also just something I've seen in my life. It's the way the practice works anyway. I'm moving around doing yoga and then at the end you're like, we're going to close our eyes and breathe and they're like, okay. Because I just did all the other stuff too. Right. Maybe there's a bit of tricking someone. 23:39                                     Guiding, guiding that's the word. Yes. So this has been really interesting. Do you have online classes too? Did I read that on your website? 23:52                                     So I teach a few different ways. I teach in person and then I also teach online. So I teach in person online over Zoom, Skype, Facetime or Facebook messenger too. However you want to access, you can access me. And so I have a few clients that do online yoga and meditation with me.                                                  I occasionally have an online course going. So right now I have an online course that is sort of an introduction to stress management and meditation with my business partner, Dr. Jessica Norris. She and I do our 911 dispatching, first responders stuff together. Our course online right now is just for anyone and it's kind of an introduction to meditation and stress management. And then I periodically run other online courses too. Sometimes I teach a very goddess focused course about the way energy works in our lives and a few different other things. I'm online a lot. Also in person. 24:56                                     We're coming to the end of the podcast, but what I would like you to do is if there's anything that you felt we didn't cover in enough depths or something that we didn't cover at all that you would like the listeners to know, please go ahead. 25:15                                     I think maybe I'll just share the reason that I teach all of this meditation, Yoga, and my practice of Hawaiian body work. It's all really to help people feel better and it's driven not just from helping individuals feel better, but from trying to help the planet feel better.                                                  So as you said at the beginning, I was a conservation biologist for the Smithsonian for about 12 years. And I got out of that and started teaching yoga. As you said, I found all the science in the world isn't going to make a difference unless we do implement those changes. And I believe that when we feel better in ourselves, we're better able to make better choices.                                                  I always use this example: if your neck hurts and you just want to go home and lay down and you're somewhere and you need to throw a can away, but the recycle bin is 50 yards away and the trash can is by you. I think you're not going to walk the 50 yards to go recycle your cans. Things as simple as that if people can heal within themselves, then I feel like we can heal together and heal the planet.                                                 Meditation, I think is a huge part of that because we know that a lot of our healing deals with pain that isn't specifically physical. And so the more I think we can stress less and manage these kinds of things, the better we will fell and the better the whole planet it would feel. 26:45                                     Well thank you. I want to give people your contact details so that they can perhaps, either talk to you in person or online. Gin's website is Yoga with Gin and that's one word and it's g i n dot com. And her email is Gin, which again is g I n@yogawithGin.com. She has couple of Facebook's: yoga with Gin; we've got a whole bunch of Yoga with Gins: Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. It's been really great talking to you. I like your attitude towards meditation. I like meditation, but it does seem to scare, I think just the word sometimes scares people. 27:41                                     Yeah, definitely. 27:45                                     So I think your idea of making it accessible for everyone is smart. I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. I think you really contributed some different ideas about it and hopefully will make people feel a little more comfortable trying it out. So thank you again. 28:05                                     Thank you. This was wonderful.                                                                                                  

Welcome back to Season 2 of my weekly live QA. Your chance to ask me your questions about space and astronomy... live. Sometimes I'll have guests, and sometimes I won't. This week... I didn't. You wanted to know about recent news about astronauts mixing concrete in space, the formation of craters on Titan, and what might be the difficulties of people going to the Moon or Mars? 04:22 Mixing concrete on ISS? 07:44 Could you make shotcrete from regolith? 09:50 Why do some planets spin backwards? 12:22 Formation of Titan's lakes 14:02 Why don't millionaires and billionaires live on the Moon? 18:40 Will SpaceX make electric rockets? 21:21 What if Mars crashed into Jupiter? 23:12 Why are LISA and LIGO only 2-dimensional? 26:13 Could we survive without a pressure suit? 27:24 How is the Planet 9 search going? 28:25 Why hasn't Tim Dodd finished his new video? 29:19 Does gravity move in a different speed through different media? 30:46 Any difficulties in crewed missions to the Moon or Mars? 33:35 What is my opinion on the Great Filter? 34:26 How do we know how old the Universe is? 36:34 How do we avoid space madness? 38:29 Does quantum enganglement allow instant communication? 41:30 When will we prove dark matter exists? 45:39 Is it possible that dark matter is antimatter? 46:30 When will we visit Neptune again? 47:10 Does the Fermi Paradox make me less scared about AI? 48:12 Any protocols for alien contact? 49:23 Plans to send an asteroid hunter to L3 50:23 What's the deal with Saturn's rotation? 51:24 Why are we hearing about NEOs? 55:10 Do they do autopsies on astronauts? 56:34 Upcoming shows and projects Our Book is out! https://www.amazon.com/Universe-Today-Ultimate-Viewing-Cosmos/dp/1624145442/ Audio Podcast version: ITunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/universe-today-guide-to-space-audio/id794058155?mt=2 RSS: https://www.universetoday.com/audio What Fraser's Watching Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbJ42wpShvmkjd428BcHcCEVWOjv7cJ1G Weekly email newsletter: https://www.universetoday.com/newsletter Weekly Space Hangout: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-KklSGlCiJDwOPdR2EUcg/ Astronomy Cast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHI67dh9jEO2rvK--MdCSg Support us at: http://www.patreon.com/universetoday More stories at: http://www.universetoday.com/ Twitch: https://twitch.tv/fcain Follow us on Twitter: @universetoday Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/universetoday Instagram - https://instagram.com/universetoday Team: Fraser Cain - @fcain / frasercain@gmail.com Karla Thompson - @karlaii / https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEItkORQYd4Wf0TpgYI_1fw Chad Weber - weber.chad@gmail.com

Data shows that using one-to-one, personalized videos in your marketing gets better results, but few marketers or actually using it. This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, BombBomb Chief Evangelist Ethan Beute breaks down the topic of personalized video - from why to use it, to how to do it well, when to use, who it's right for, and what kinds of results you can expect.  Bottom line - by just about every measurement of success, using one-to-one videos gets better results. And with so many new technologies available to make the creation of one-to-one video easy and affordable, there is no reason not to get started. Highlights from my conversation with Ethan include: BombBomb is a video platform that, amongst other things, supports the creation of one-to-one, personalized videos. Ethan says that we are successful when we connect with people and are sincere in our ability to provide value - so this ability to do it in a more complete way, with today's technology, is simply a return to the way business was exclusively done just a few generations ago. The biggest reason more marketers don't use one-to-one video is that it requires vulnerability, and many people are uncomfortable appearing on camera. There is also a behavior, or habit, change required so that when people would normally sit down at a keyboard and type out a message, they think instead about creating a video. A great way to get started with one-to-one video is by sending it to people who already know and like you - for example, your internal colleagues. There are several use cases for one-to-one video, from landing pages with form fills, to frequently asked questions, emails, customer testimonials, and success stories. Other common use cases include when you have to explain something complicated, or demonstrate a product. Ethan recommends that if you include a video in email, you don't put the full text of the video into the email. Use the email like a teaser. The most important thing to consider when making one-to-one videos is what is in it for the recipient. Why would they open your video? A couple of things you can to do increase the chances someone will watch your video are use an animated preview thumbnail, and do something in the first few frames to really customize it, like hold up a whiteboard with the recipient's name, or do a screen capture of their LinkedIn profile. Adding one-to-one video to your emails generates powerful results. 81% of people said they get more replies and responses, 87% of people say they get more clicks, one in six said they doubled or more than doubled their click rate, 68% say they convert more leads, and 10% said they doubled or more than doubled their conversion rate.  These same results all increase by 2 to 5% when you use an unformatted email template meant to mimic a personalized gmail. Resources from this episode: Visit the BombBomb website Connect with Ethan on LinkedIn Follow Ethan on Twitter Learn more about using personalized video in Ethan's book Rehumanize Your Business Check out BomBomb's gmail video solution Listen to the podcast to learn more about using one-to-one video in your marketing. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm your host, Kathleen Booth, and this week, my guest is Ethan Beute, who is the Chief Evangelist at BombBomb. Welcome, Ethan. Ethan Beute (Guest): Thank you so much. I really appreciate the invite, and I'm looking forward to the conversation. Ethan and Kathleen recording this episode together . Kathleen: Me too, and I love your t-shirt. People who are listening can't see this, but he's got on a t-shirt that says, "Rehumanize," which definitely is related to what we're talking about today. Let's start out by having you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and about BombBomb. What do you guys do? About BombBomb Ethan: Sure. I've been with the team for eight years full time and two years part time prior to that. A, we've been at this a long time, and B, I've been involved with it for a long time. We maybe had a couple hundred customers when I started full time back in 2011 and more than 45,000 today, so it's been a really interesting journey. And I think it's just, there's so many factors that we're working in our favor at the time. What we do, we make it very easy for people to get face-to-face again through simple video. The ideal situation is that you and I could get together and have this conversation in person, but time and distance are the things that keep us apart. Here, we were able to work out time, and then, we use Zoom to cover the distance. It allows us to be there in person when we can't be there in person, and that's what this style of video is. It's simple, personal videos, typically webcam, smartphone, unscripted, conversational. Not to put on your home page, not to build a YouTube channel with, but in order to get face-to-face again where it matters most for you, and for your customers and future customers. We have a tool set that works in Gmail, in Outlook, in Salesforce, in Outreach, in a bunch of other CRMs and platforms, our own web application, mobile apps, etc. But the premise is, you're better in person. You're going to communicate with people more clearly. You're going to connect with them more effectively, and ultimately, you're going to convert at a higher rate when you get face-to-face. And those conversions aren't just a macro conversion, like a signed contract or something like that. It's also the micro conversions, like more replies, or a return phone call, or more clicks through to fill out that form or to give a review, or whatever the case may be. And so we've found that, when people are a little bit more personal and a little bit more human in their communication, instead of relying exclusively on the same plain black text on the same white screen that doesn't differentiate you, doesn't build trust and rapport, and doesn't communicate nearly as well as if you just looked someone in the eye and just spoke to him or her. And it's a really effective and satisfying way to communicate with people. Kathleen: Yeah, I really could not agree more with that. We're recording a podcast right now, and we're starting a little late, because I had some technical issues. The technical issue I was having specifically is that my webcam wasn't working. And you would think, "Well, why do you need a webcam to record a podcast, which is an audio podcast?" But the reality is that it makes a huge difference if I can see the person I'm talking to and vice versa, not only to forge a connection, but the facial expressions, my hand moving as I talk. And also, not talking over each other. Our ability to have a great conversation is so dramatically influenced by our ability to see each other. Ethan: I agree completely, and I know a little bit more about you. Even before we started speaking. You have a really nice little diffuser going. I can see- Kathleen: My essential oils back there. Ethan: Yeah, yeah. I can see photos of your family. It's the spoken and unspoken things. It's the body language, but it's also the context and all this stuff. It's just so much more rich. And again, effective, as you already said. You know when I'm winding down, and I can see when you're ready to ask a follow up question so we don't speak over each other and things, but it's also more satisfying. I feel a little bit more connected to you. You're able to read the word on my t-shirt, and know that it says something about me and the way I look at things. There's just so much there. That's what all of this is all about. Ethan: It is about getting to the MQL number or the SQL number or the revenue number or whatever, but all of that is facilitated through, and I don't want to sound trite and go, "It's not B2B, it's not B2C. It's H2H." It's true. I don't want to be trite about it, but that's all this is really about. "We are successful when we connect with people, are sincere in our ability to provide value, and so this ability to do it in a more complete way, with today's technology, is simply a return to the way business was exclusively done just a few generations ago." Why more marketers don't use video Kathleen: You just mentioned something really interesting to me, which is "with today's technology." I have noticed that, in the last few years, there are just a proliferation of tools available to support making these kinds of videos. But there actually are an astounding number of marketers who are not taking advantage of them. I would love to just start by talking about why you think that is the case. Ethan: I'll tell you exactly why it's the case. I think one of the biggest hangups is that it requires vulnerability. That's it. We don't want the discomfort of appearing on camera. There are some other things too in that there's not a lot of best practices established. I think a lot of people see people on LinkedIn, with this maybe this style of video and think, "Who do they think they are? I would never do that. I can't do that. Can I do that? Is this good enough? Am I good enough?" Just to bring it back to the vulnerability. "Do I actually have anything to say," and all of these other pieces, and so I think a lot of it is that personal piece of, "I'm not comfortable enough in my own skin to put myself forward in a real and honest way, sitting here in my cubicle," or as I'm doing, standing in a bedroom in my dad's condo in West Michigan. We are who we are. We are where we are. And if we come with the right spirit of service and, again, trade word, value, that it all works out. I think the human factor is the single biggest factor. And then I think, more practically, this simpler style of video, there are not a lot of best practices established. I think there aren't enough people modeling it. A lot of people are ... Any typical adoption curve that's fat in the middle, we're still on the early upside of it, and so the followers that want to be a little bit more cautious and comfortable in, "Oh, other people have done this successfully," we're not quite there yet. I think there are people sitting on the sidelines, maybe waiting and watching. And it's behavior change in general, this idea of hitting record instead of going to the keyboard when I'm responding to a customer inquiry, or making that initial touch, or following up after an appointment, or all these other various places you can drop videos. It's a habit change, so even some of our best customers will confess, "Gosh, I love this. This is great. You guys are awesome people. I love what you allow me to do for my customers and in my business, but gosh, I just wish I used it more often." Even people who have jumped all the early hurdles, and we can get into those more specifically, but even people who've jumped all the hurdles are still struggling to make it a habit, which is the thing that I'm most excited about in the work that I do, is getting more people to be more consistent about being more human in their day-to-day communication. Kathleen: You have hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. Because, and I speak from experience, because at IMPACT, we've had a stated goal in the last year of really weaving video throughout every single thing we do as a company, and I have seen both of the things you said. One, I have absolutely seen and I have experienced it myself, that feeling of, "Oh, I didn't put on a nice enough outfit." Or, "I haven't done my hair, so I couldn't possibly do a video today." I've been experimenting with LinkedIn video a lot in the last few months, and it is funny, I do feel like the days when I wake up and put an effort into my appearance, I'm like, "Gosh, I should record three of these in different shirts so that I take advantage of the fact that I look good." And you find yourself getting all caught up in appearances, as opposed to just acknowledging, "This is what I look like today. Let's show the world, and that's okay." But then also that muscle memory almost that you tap into when you need to communicate. A lot of us don't think of video first. I always think of it as building a culture of video within your company. Again, we've been trying to do this for the last year, and we have some tools in place that help us create one-to-one videos really easily. They're in-browser, and it's interesting to see adoption. There are a couple people who are just amazing at it. They use it for everything. And then there are definitely people who, you can remind them time and time again, and they still default back to writing. And so much is lost in that writing, so much of the context. One of the greatest things that I think we did as a company, and I'm going to give credit to our COO, Chris Duprey, is that we actually had this communication training earlier in the year. And it wasn't so much about video, but what he did was, after the communication training, he asked everybody in the company, once a week, a question about how they were implementing what they learned, and he required them to answer that question via video. You had to post a video of yourself answering his question in this particular Slack channel, and it was a great structured way of getting people used to having that kind of a conversation by video. But it was funny to watch, because there were definitely some people who, you could just tell, they were procrastinating doing it. Or they didn't want to show themselves. Absolutely, everything you just said is true, and I've 100% lived it within our company, the whole spectrum of people who are early adopters to people who are true, true laggers. Ethan: I love it. The confidence piece of, "I feel like I look good today," is a real thing. And when you are feeling it, definitely create opportunities to do that. Even my use is pretty streaky, where I might send 15 or 20 or 30 videos in a day in order to execute something that I'm working on, and it requires benefits from one-to-one communication. If you are feeling it, ride that. But if you're not, know that you care a heck of a lot more about your own appearance than anyone else does. The other cool think that I love that you all are doing there is, and it would be one of the tips that I would offer for anyone just getting started, is start with the people who already know you and like you. These are your coworkers, and so an internal Slack channel with your team members all talking about what we're learning and how we're going to move forward together in these types of things, is a really great way to start getting comfortable, because it is a new skill. You're not just going to pick up the saxophone, or pick up a lacrosse stick, or sit down at the piano, or open up a Mandarin language book and just be expert out of the gate. And this is a new skill. This idea of looking the camera in the lens and speaking as if you're speaking to somebody isn't the most natural thing we've ever done, so this idea that you're going to practice is super, super important. And the idea that you can do it in this safe, closed space is just a killer idea, so yeah, props to Chris. Kathleen: Yeah, Chris is a smart guy. Using one-to-one video in your marketing Kathleen: In terms of marketing, there's so many use cases for these one-to-one videos, but let's zero our focus in for a minute on marketing, because I have some other areas I want to talk about too. Marketing, specifically, can you talk a little bit about some of the use cases you've seen, where one-to-one video can be useful? Because there are plenty of use cases for non-one-to-one video that I think most marketers are very familiar with, but how do you see one-to-one specifically being used? Ethan: I'll start with the common thoughts, which is the idea that it's recorded once and used over and over again, but it goes to one person at the right time. This would be, maybe, something that you would write and script and edit, and it isn't truly in the context or even the spirit of what you and I have been talking about with regard to video. But anywhere that someone is making a transition, this could be from a form fill to a free trial, or a free trial to a customer, or any of these points of transition for the customer that are in marketing's zone of activity or responsibility set. Frequently asked questions is always a great source of video content, whether that is for an email nurture sequence or a YouTube playlist or a set of blog posts. Whatever the case may be. Anything that your best customers are wondering about or need to know in transition from one place to the next is a great place to do relationship building and teaching and nurturing through video. I would add then that, for the marketer in general, some places I've personally ... I was a one-person marketing team for about three and a half years, and then we've dramatically grown the team out over the past three or four years since then. I sent a ton of email, and I did not send it from a group address. I sent every email, whether it was a newsletter, one of these nurture type emails, trade show pre-event marketing or post-event followup, I sent all of them from my own email address. And so A, if you're not sending email from a real person, I encourage you to do so. The reason you're sending email isn't just to blast information out. It's to create conversation and to help people, but the benefit is these replies, the things people wonder about, the things people thank you for, this is how you understand your customers. If you're not getting on a phone with them regularly, this is another great way to have those conversations. And do you need to budget time for it? Absolutely. What I found myself in ... I'll go to a really fun one. If you send emails to large lists of people as I was doing, as the sole practitioner and even as we were building the team before I handed some of this stuff off to other team members, I would regularly get, from time to time, on an email to 80,000 or 120,000 people, get that periodic reply that says, "Why are you in my inbox? I hate you." Foul language. Kathleen: Isn't it amazing how awful people feel like they can be over email? Ethan: Right, unsubscribe. And so, it's funny. What I would do in all of those cases is I would just hit reply, and I promise I'll give you a couple more good use cases, but I would hit reply and I would say, "Hey Jeff, Ethan Beute here with BombBomb. Wanted to let you know I got your email. Hey, I am so sorry. It does me no good to make you upset. I don't want to send you email you don't want to receive. I know the outcome is going to be terrible. I wanted to let you know that I've personally manually unsubscribed you in both of the systems that we use to have email. And if you ever want to get face-to-face with people as I'm doing here, to build a relationship and let people know what's going on, just reply. Let me know. I'd be happy to resubscribe you any time." And about one third of the time, you get nothing back. About one third of the time, you get an, "Okay, thanks." And about one third, maybe a little bit less of the time, you'll get, "Oh my gosh, that was really nice. Yeah, resubscribe me." Again, all anyone wants is to feel like they've been seen and heard. That person who was very angry in the moment, maybe they just lost a deal, or got chewed out by their supervisor, or got a piece of bad news, or woke up on the wrong side of the bed, they get your email and they are just ready to start firing. All they want on the other side is, "Hey man, I see you. I hear you. I'm sorry. This is not in my best interest either. I don't want to spam you, because that's bad for both of us, and I've taken care of the issue." That's all anyone wants. I do customer testimonials, customer success stories. I think, yeah, you could write a rule set in your CRM or something that will produce a list of your most active customers or your longest lasting customers or customers within a particular segment or whatever, and send a mass email requesting that they send a video testimonial or some kind of success story or whatever. That's okay. I typically prefer to do that on a one-to-one basis, because I do want their personal story. I might template the email with three or four tips on how to provide that story or that testimonial, or leading questions or a structure for how they might respond, or go to a third party site and leave that thing you want to give that instruction. But I think, even if it's 85% the same video, I think it's worth 45 seconds a person to let them know that you appreciate them. There's a benefit here too. Smiling is like gratitude in that the more we practice it, the better we actually feel. It's a chemical benefit. It's an emotional benefit. It's a physical benefit to us. And so this idea of anything that's positive in your customer communication, I think the more you can do that and be sincere in it ... Your current customers are your best source of your next customers, period. They're least expensive, the warmest, etc etc etc, and so why not honor those people? Those are the people that you can turn into the loyalists and the advocates, simply by, even with 40 seconds of your time, they're going to say something like, "Oh my gosh, thank you for taking the time to send that video." And you say, "Oh my gosh, it actually took me a quarter of the time it would have to type all this out." Anyway, I could go on, but I think when you look at the times when you're clicking Send, you're going to find opportunities where you can communicate more clearly or make a stronger human connection or make a bigger impact or be much more clear in your communication, and those are the spots where you might take care to hit Record. And again, once you get comfortable and get over those human issues in the beginning, you're often going to save a lot of time. Kathleen: Yeah, there are so many great use cases. Again, speaking from personal experience, and I wouldn't say we're experts at this, but we've been playing around with it a lot, and some of the more effective use cases that I've seen are ... We have a Contact Us form on our website, so for anybody who's interested in talking to someone from our sales team, we actually have one person, her name is Myriah, who everybody talks to first. And so, we made a video of her. On the page, it says, "If you fill out this form, this is the person that you will be speaking with." And it's her saying hi and saying, "I'll be the one you're talking to," and explaining what she's going to cover in the call. That's been very effective, and people really like that. They're like, "Wow, I really did get her on the phone." And then- Ethan: That's the really interesting thing. When people greet her on the phone, there's not just the basic relationship building there, like the psychological proximity. There's also a degree of authority there in this idea that, "Oh, it's really you." This idea that they feel like they know you, and so when you get on the phone, it's like, "Hey, it's you." What a benefit to the entire rest of the relationship, especially if that's the first touch they get. So good. Kathleen: Yeah, we've done that also in a lot of our email marketing, like you were suggesting. Whether it's promoting ticket sales for an event and having somebody ... I'm a user group leader for HubSpot, so whenever we invite people to our next user group meeting, there'll be a little video of me saying, "Hey, I hope you can make it. Here's what we're going to cover." And it's funny, because when you pair that with the email ... We have one of our email templates. We call it "conversational email," but it's basically a stripped down email template. It looks literally like it came out of my Gmail. It's done by design. It still has the CAN-SPAM footer, but it's subtle. We just stripped all the formatting out and made it look like every other email you get. And when we create the email like that and make it very personal and from me, and then have a video of me in it, it's sent through a mass emailing system, but it is astounding, the number of replies I get. People saying, "Oh, thanks for your email. I'm sorry, I won't be able to make it." Nobody responds to a formatted mass email to be like, "I'm sorry. I can't make it." But the fact that they're doing that, it's because it really feels like they're getting a personal email from me. Ethan: There's a social reciprocity element. I feel like it's subtle. You can't describe it. They would never articulate why they chose to reply to that email. If you deliver it as if you're speaking to one person instead of, "Hey everyone." If you're like, "Hey. As someone in the HubSpot community here locally, you blah blah blah ..." When you speak to one person, they feel like it's for one person, and there's this, almost an obligation to participate in a different way. The same as your front desk or your admin who's the first point of contact and the router of all of the opportunities, that she's greeted in a different way as well. I'm not surprised by that result, but I love to hear it. Kathleen: Yeah, you also talked about one other thing, which I've found to be true as well, which is when something's complicated, I actually love video for that. Because it is exhausting to think about having to write out an email about a complicated topic, when you can just turn your video camera on and, in no time, just talk it out. And then send that to somebody. I think it's easier for you, as the person who needs to communicate the message, but it's also easier for the one receiving it to understand it. Ethan: Completely, and so when you fold in something like screen recording, that helps as well. If you need to walk people through a process, or walk through a form or a document, or a piece of software or something else, this idea of being able to blend show and tell together is especially powerful for detailed and complicated topics. And a point of caution here that I would offer people that say, "Oh gosh, this is great. I'm going to add some videos to my emails." A, I definitely agree with your idea of stripping down some of the emails and making them more ... We call it Gmail, Gmail style, Gmailesque. But then I would also say, don't be redundant. The text in the email is meant to support the video, and the video is meant to support the text in the email, to ultimately make it clear to people, "Why did I get this? What's my opportunity? And how do I proceed?" You do need some text maybe to help compel that video play. The video is there to bring the message to life, to maybe add some clarity or add some emotion. In the case that it's an event invite, really build it. Sales is the transfer of emotion, so capture the spirit of the event and what you think is really cool about it, or attractive and why you would just plain not miss it. These kinds of things are going to naturally draw people in, with fellow human beings and fellow social creatures that we are. And then, there's often a tendency then to put all the detail from the video in the body of the email. I strongly discourage that. Then there's no reason to watch the video. Again, these are all habits. No one send is the thing. Just speaking of your HubStop user group, these are people that you reach out to monthly or quarterly. You maybe have some exchanges. You're going to be back in their inbox, and so the more you train them that, "I don't need to watch the video, because it's all here in the email body," they're not going to watch the video. Or the more, in general, let's step outside of the user group. The more emails you send ... Every single email you send, you're training people to open or delete your next message by how good it is. And it's the same thing with any aspect of that email. You're training people to know what to expect from you when your "from: name" and "from: email address" hit their inbox. We need to be careful to keep the human elements in the video. Out of courtesy, if it is a complex topic, go ahead and include a list of bullet points or details, or date, time, location, street address stuff that you don't necessarily want to memorize and put in the video. It doesn't belong in the video. In video, in email, you can use them together, the video and the text to be complimentary, to compel people to ultimately take you up on the call to action, whatever the purpose of that email is. How to do one-to-one video right Kathleen: That's a great point, and I think what it speaks to is, what are some things that you should be aware of if you want to do this well? If somebody says, "I'm into it. I want to create a one-to-one video. I like that tip of 'don't be redundant.'" One of the other things I learned was, when you hit that record button, already be smiling. Because, if you put a video thumbnail in something, and you have a serious face, it's not going to entice anybody to watch. Whereas, if you have a big smile in that thumbnail, somebody's going to want to hit click. It's much more inviting. Are there other tips along those lines that you have for people if they're going to test this out? Ethan: Sure, absolutely. Something that happens when people first get started is they think the video is magic, because a lot of people selling video solutions are selling magic. That's just my shorthand for "dramatic promises that this is the one thing you've been looking for, that it's going to make the difference in ..." What's going to make a difference in your business and a difference in the world at large is being consistent about doing it and making it a habit, and now this is part of the way we communicate. It doesn't replace phone calls, doesn't replace text messages or emails or social messages. It's just part of what we can add into so many of our situations to, again, bring it to life and convey the emotion, have people feel like they know us. What people will often do is just record a video and send it on its own, essentially. And then they wonder, "Why didn't they play my video?" Which is the wrong question. That's backward looking, looking to blame. You can learn and apply it forward, but it's too late. You've already done all the action. If we instead ask, "Why would he play this video? Why should she play this video? Why would they watch this video?" Then we're going to be much more clear. This is just ... and you don't have to go through all these steps every time. Like you're sending a marketing email to 1,500 or 15,000 people every single time you send a one-to-one email, but once you start getting habitual about it like, "Okay, what's in it for this person," and when you're clear on that, you're going to A, record a much better video. Because you're much more clear about the intention and the value to the recipient, but it's also going to come through in your subject line, one line of text to tell someone why to play the video, and then a supporting line of text after the video to drive the call to action, which I assume you'll be talking about in the video. Being clear on what's in it for them from the get go is going to set you up to create a much better experience for them from subject line through opening it through watching the video through following up on the call to action. Being clear on the value is a good one. Something that we do at BombBomb, we take the first three seconds of your video and automatically turn it into an animated preview for you. That gives you three seconds to do thinks like, of course, smile or wave or gesture at something in the room. I keep a little whiteboard on my desk, a dry erase board, and I'll write notes. Sometimes I'll draw people's logos. I'm using the animated preview as well to let people know why they should watch the video. You can do that in a static thumbnail as well. Other people use sticky notes or iPads. You can use screen recording, where your little face is in the corner, and you're over top of their LinkedIn profile or over a blog post that they recently published, or a podcast episode, or a podcast they host. These kinds of things to let them know, "This is just for you. This is not something that I ..." Because as video becomes more common, the same reason that direct mail fell off, I feel like it's having a little bit of a resurgence. The reason it fell off is, we all know this is just ... "This went to everybody. It's not necessarily relevant to me," and all of these things. Video will reach that point. I actually think we're years away from it, because there aren't enough people doing it, for some of the reasons we already described. There'll be a point at which we need to be much more clear about the value of video. I think we still have a window here where, simply using video in some of these places where it's not necessarily expected or common will get you an extra lift right now, but especially as we go forward. This ability to convey the value to the recipient and reasons to participate, because goodness knows, our time and attention are not going to be more available in the future. They're only going to be less available, and so we need to be more clear about these things from the get go. Who should be using one-to-one video Kathleen: So true. Now, what do you ... I imagine there are people who hear this and they think, "Okay, one-to-one video. I get it, but by nature, it is unscripted. It is less polished. It is more informal." What do you say to people who come back to you and say, "My brand, that's not congruent with my brand. My brand is more corporate. It's more polished, and this isn't going to fit with it Ethan: For starter, I would obviously ask some follow up questions. My flippant response is, "You are wrong." My flippant response is what I said earlier, which is just ultimately, you need to honor those elements, and I think some of that's going to come through. Maybe you control your setting a little bit more. You control your clothing a little bit more, but ultimately ... I wrote a piece years ago called The Shiny Authenticity Inversion. It was based on anecdotal evidence from working with thousands of people around this, and people using video in YouTube, in Facebook, even at the time, five years ago, let's say, and in email and these other places. And they say, "I do all kinds of video. I have all this expensive video equipment. I made a studio in my office or in my garage or whatever, and I do all this great stuff." But the videos that generate the best response are my simplest ones, where I just hold out my iPhone and I just talk to people. I organized that, and then I specifically set corporate against human in a table to characterize it: scripted versus conversational, edited instead of one take recording. This kind of shiny, scripted, produced, edited, animated open, like the video opens and we're in a polished video. And I think the reaction to the simpler style is a reaction to, or an echo reaction even, to Seth Godin's television industrial complex. This idea that, if you had budget enough to produce a video and put it in front of enough people that you would inherently and immediately have trust, the idea that you had enough of a budget to create a television campaign in the '80s and '90s, was enough for people to say, "Oh, these people are super legitimate." And now I think we're overtrained that way. This idea of pulling the curtain back, and stop putting on all of this overdressed ... Brene Brown's language for it is like armor, and some of these other things, this overly produced scenario, where we act as if. We act as if we're not the same as you. We're not the same as ourselves. We're better than ourselves, all this dressing up. There are places for it, and I think there are ways to do this that honor the spirit of your brand and are true to who you are. But ultimately, people want to know that. They want to see you and hear you just like they want to be seen and heard. They want to know and trust the person who's on the other side, and so I think the more we can ask why when we feel defensive about these ideas of being more honest, and being more direct, and being more personal, and being more human in the work that we're doing. Another thing is, "This doesn't scale." It doesn't, but you've got to pick your spot. I say, if you as an agency are doing high value/low volume, then I think there are a lot of places to do this. If, like us, as a software company with 40,000 customers, are doing high volume, you need to pick your spots and say, "I'm going to do mass emails for this," but when people reply or when I go through the analytics, I'm going to follow up underneath and be truly person. You've got to pick your spots where it's going to make the most sense and the most value for your organization. I would say the same thing to your question of, "That's not me." And by casual unscripted, I don't mean you have no idea what you're going to say when you hit record, or that you're going to do it in the parking garage, the fifth floor of the parking garage underneath your office building. I'm not suggesting that it's intentionally trashy, although my shiny authenticity version was. I feel validated. About a year later, the Content Marketing Institute, which produces a ton of amazing content, a gentleman did a piece called Visual Realism: The New Way to Build Trust. And he broke down how Levis, Coca-Cola, Betabrand, and some of these other really big companies are intentionally dumbing down the quality of their photos and videos in order to ... appear more trustworthy. And so, while we're down here wondering how we can put more gloss and polish and budget behind our video efforts, these companies that have 100,000x your budget and more people and more time and all of this are trying to find their way back down toward the rest of us, in terms of being approachable and being trustworthy. I would just encourage you, if you take this position of, "I can't do that because," ask a couple layers of why, and be honest with yourself, because ultimately, you're going to win when you can put yourself forward more often. Kathleen: You know who nails this, who's a great example of it? And I think proof that you can really get real and not jeopardize your business credibility, is Dave Gerhardt, who is the head of marketing at Drift. Drift is a very, very successful company that is growing like gangbusters, that sells into other very, very successful companies. And Dave not only does super informal one-to-one style videos, but sometimes he'll do it after a workout when he's sweaty, or walking down the street with one of his kids. He takes it to an extreme, but it's because the stuff that he's saying is so valuable that nobody cares what the setting is. And let's be honest. We're all human. We don't walk around 24/7 in tailored suits. We all have lives, and so it shouldn't come as a shock to anybody that people work out, people have kids. But if you have a message of value to deliver, I think, being willing to do that any time, any place, is very humanizing. When you talk about trust, it's funny, and you talked earlier about every email you send is an opportunity, or reinforces whether somebody should open or delete. What started turning in my head was actually Jason Fried, who is one of the founders of Basecamp. In his books, he talks about something called the trust bank, and he talks about it with respect to employees, but I think it's just as applicable here, which is that, he talks about when he hires somebody, he has a full ... He has a trust bank, and every action you take, every interaction you have, either puts more money into the trust bank, or it takes it out. I think it's the same thing with video and with email. Every piece of content you create is either going to add to that trust bank or remove from it. Yes, while you might make a fancy, polished video, is that adding to the trust bank or is that withdrawing from it? Is it going to make you feel colder and less accessible or is it going to invite somebody in? Ethan: Yeah, and is it self motivated or is it in the service of the other person? The other interesting thing then is, with Dave, which is a great example, and you'll find other people of note, familiarity, large companies or big names in and of themselves, doing this. I think, if you find yourself standing back and saying, "I would never do that," or "I just don't have the same kind of value to add," I think, A, he's getting the benefit of some of the things I got when we turned our cameras on to start this conversation, which is, I see where you work. I know some things about you. There's some things around you that I can attach myself to and say, "I have some affinity with her," without us ever saying a single word. And it's the same thing with him. When he's leading his life and allowing you into it, it's not just about the message. It's also about, "I like this guy a little bit more." Or, at a minimum, "I know more about him." And the value of that is so intangible, but significant. And the other thing I would say, for people who think, "Gosh, if I'm going to step it up and I'm going to communicate these messages in video, I need to have something extraordinary or extra special or super insightful," or these kinds of things. I just don't think that that's true. I think, for starters, most working professionals, who've achieved even some moderate level of success, have a lot more to teach and share than they would ever give themselves credit for. And then again, going back to customer value, you probably know, if you're a competent marketer, you know where people get hung up and where people are successful. You can communicate these things en masse or one-to-one to people who are stuck. They've maybe been with you for awhile, but they're stuck and they need to move forward. Or people that are just getting started with you. Short line on that is, you have a lot more value to offer than you probably recognize or give yourself credit for. If you look around, you're going to find spots where you can be more personal and more helpful, and you can do this and you are good enough. How does one-to-one video translate into marketing results? Kathleen: I love it. I feel like I could talk to you about this forever, but I'm realizing that we're running out of time, and there are some important questions I want to ask you before that happens. First one is, we've talked a lot about the why and the how. Can you address ... How does this move the needle? How does this translate into marketing results, and what have you see in your experience? Ethan: Sure. I've seen all kinds of wonderful things, from an anecdotal standpoint. Again, as a front line guy for years, who sent all of this stuff personally, I have relationships with hundreds and hundreds of our customers, and I know their stories and how they're using it and all that. Survey data, 81% of people said they get more replies and responses to their emails. Again, the goal of the email oftentimes is to generate a reply, especially in sales. As you start moving into the MQL or SQL range, depending on how you're structured, you might still have a BDR or SDR function within the marketing team. Some people separate it. It's actually separated at BombBomb. It's now on the sales side of the fence, not that we don't have a ... You've got to draw a line somewhere, not that we don't have ... collaboration. More replies and responses. 87% of people say they get more clicks through their emails. I think it was one in six said they doubled or more than doubled their click rate. 68% of people say they convert more leads. I think 10% said they doubled or more than doubled their conversion rate. This one gets more into, and not necessarily a hardcore marketer, but 90% of people said it allows them to stay in touch more effectively. I think it was 40% said they doubled or more than doubled their ability to stay in touch effectively. And then I think it was 56-57% of people say they generate more referrals. And those numbers, specifically in our Gmail instance, again, the question was, "Compared to traditional, typed out text emails, how much of a lift does BombBomb video in email give you?" When we asked the same thing exclusively in the Gmail context, all the numbers were the same, but with two to five points on top of it. Which, again, goes back to this idea of the simpler style email. Not necessarily the full blown design header, graphics, colors, these things that, again, signal to people that this is polished, this is for everybody, this has some gloss on it. And it's appropriate in moments, but I think the more we can strip it back a little bit and get straight to the heart of it, typically the better off we're going to be. On the CS side, which may not necessarily be directly of interest to marketers, but there's something there. First touch resolution has dramatically improved, so when someone reaches out with a problem or a question, which again, I got as a marketer, being able to send a video and even a pre-recorded video that addresses that specific question, dramatically reduces the back and forth time, which A, eats up your time as a marketer or a team member, and then B, frustrates the customer in that, "I'm going back and forth. I have a meeting to go to. I still don't have my resolution. I'm not clear. I don't understand." These longer exchanges, so first touch resolution, people filling out satisfaction surveys increases. And I think it goes back to this reciprocity piece in your story of, "Oh my gosh, it's really you on the phone." It's that. How to connect with Ethan Kathleen: Yeah, yeah. I like that. Well, if somebody wants to learn more about this, or they want to reach out to you and ask you a question, what's the best way for them to reach you? Ethan: My name is Ethan Beute, E-T-H-A-N B-E-U-T-E. You can hit me up on LinkedIn. You can email me directly, Ethan, E-T-H-A-N at BombBomb.com. I co-authored a book on simpler personal videos called Rehumanize Your Business, and you can learn more about that at BombBomb.com. It's just the word bomb twice, B-O-M-B-B-O-M-B.com/book. And, of course, you can find it on Amazon as well. We walk through all the stuff. What is this all about? Why does it matter to you and your business? Who's actually doing it? When do you send a video instead of text? How do you technically do it? And then we have some advanced ... How to get more emails open, how to get more videos played, how to get replies, responses, clicks, etc. And then how do you follow up? What happens when you send a video email to 500 people? What do you do with the 168 people who opened it but didn't play the video? How do you follow up with that? So a bunch of follow up strategies as well. We want to make this accessible. I am sincerely convinced that, when this becomes a more standard business practice, and again, I don't see this as a strategy or a tactic. This is just a different and better way to communicate using today's technology. The bandwidth that we have as recorders and senders, and the bandwidth that our customers have as recipients, and the nice cameras we have built into our laptops and our phones and all of this. This isn't ... My vision and my hope for this is that this becomes a more standard way to work, because it's going to bring us closer into relationship with one another. It's going to close this, "We're more connected than ever, but we feel more disconnected and lonely and unseen than ever." It's just going to be a better way to live and work as a practitioner on the company side, and as a stakeholder on the customer side. I'm very encouraged by its growth and the receptivity to it. I recognize the human challenges, and I hope people can go forward. I hope the book is of some value in that process. Kathleen: Amen. Well, I will put those links in the show notes for sure. If you want to connect with Ethan or check out the book or BombBomb, head to the show notes. Kathleen's two questions Kathleen: Two questions I always ask my guests, and I'm curious to hear what you have to say. The first is always, company or individual, is there a particular person who you think is doing inbound marketing really well? But I'm going to twist it and ask you, is there an example of a company or individual who's doing personalized one-to-one video really well? Because you work with a lot of these companies, so who should the audience check out if they want to see a best practice example? Ethan: Good one. We just spent a lot of time with one of our really good customers who's just ... We're all in Colorado Springs. I'm not at the moment, but our company is and I typically am. But there's a company called Madwire Marketing 360 that's up in Ft. Collins. They were already a really good company culture, and you can see that when you get into some of the content that they produce, but they really just took this on and ran with it. Ethan: The adoption there was just really amazing. I've been a part of the adoption of video on a variety of teams and company situations, and they just really, really ran with it. It's been really inspiring, and the results they're getting are fantastic. Kathleen: Great. Well, I'll definitely put that link in as well. And then, digital marketing is changing so quickly, and I always hear marketers complaining that it's like drinking from a fire hose. How do you personally stay up to date and keep yourself educated? Ethan: I read a lot of books, and I read them in print, and I read them with a pencil. I'm not a hardcore gadget, tool, tech guy. I'm not looking for new apps. I'm not looking for new tools. I want to understand the problem first, and so I think there's something about reading. The pace of it, especially reading with a pencil, where you're very clear about what's super important, which I underline. And when it's also of secondary importance, which I put in parentheses. There's something about that process. I think so many people run to digital tools, but they're not clear on the real problem they're trying to solve, and therefore, the implementation is either incomplete or potentially even not helpful. They think that just by evaluating three solutions and subscribing to one of them that they've solved their problem, and in fact, that's just a very, very beginning, and very often, it's a reflection of the fact that you didn't truly understand your problem. I'm much slower. People on our team, thank goodness it really does take a variety of disciplines and backgrounds and stuff, because I do have gadget guy and gadget gal and app guy and app gal on my team, which is awesome. That's what helps me as well is my colleagues. If you're not that type of person, it's okay. It took me awhile to come to terms with that myself, but know that we all add value in the process, and being very, very clear on what you're actually trying to solve is the most important step to staying abreast of the latest changes in martech. Kathleen: Yeah, I love that you're a pencil and hard copy book kind of guy, because I love nothing more than making notes in margins and underlining and marking books up. All right, well we are just about out of time, so again, head to the show notes if you want to know how to contact Ethan or if you want to learn more about BombBomb. You know what to do next... Kathleen: And if you're listening and you liked what you heard or you learned something new, please consider leaving a five star review on Apple Podcasts. If you know somebody else who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me @WorkMommyWork, because I would love to interview them. Thanks so much, Ethan. It was fun. Ethan: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it too, and if you're listening, if you've listened to other episodes, go leave that review. It really matters. Kathleen: It does. Thank you for saying that. All right, see you next time.

Visit us at divorceandyourmoney.com for the #1 divorce resources in the USA and get personalized help. Learn about coaching services here.   One of the questions that comes up often that is a source of confusion, is how does life insurance work during the divorce process and actually afterwards. I want to take some time and clarify how it could work and how it might apply to you. I'm going to start with how it works during the divorce process. Then also talk about the role after the divorce process because it's not always intuitive and it's usually not what people think. The first element is, during divorce the question that people ask, is life insurance something that's split or how does that work? Does it have value? Generally speaking, it depends on what kind of life insurance policy you have. Most life insurance policies, not all, but most life insurance policies are what's called term life insurance, which is a policy that exists for a certain term or certain number of years.   You buy this life insurance policy. It may be for 20 years and you pay a monthly amount and if you were to pass away during that time, then that life insurance policy pays out. But after that time frame passes, that money goes away and you don't get it back and that life insurance policy doesn't have any value. Conversely, some life insurance policies are called whole life policies which are just that. There are many complications and variations within them, but they cover your whole life. They don't have a term, they don't have an ending date. What's important about whole life policies is that oftentimes whole life policies build up what's called a cash value. That cash value is the case or the place where when you build up that policy, there is some value to it that you can cash out or borrow against or sell the policy for, that has value associated with it.   The real goal is, is to figure out, well what type of life insurance policy do you have and does it have any value. Now, term policies generally speaking, have zero value to them. If you're thinking about your financial information or you're splitting up your assets or whatever, oftentimes you'll see the life insurance policy and you'll put the value. You'll need to list that you have the life insurance policy, but the value on it might be zero. So there's nothing to discuss or at least to split when it comes to the policy itself. That's most common with term policies and, just as an aside, is the reason that term policies are so common, is because they don't have a value at the end, they tend to be cheaper. Term policies tend to be less expensive for people then the whole life policies and just more common and simpler.   I just see them a lot more often and I think they're more popular than the whole life policies. It's just something you should be aware of but nothing to worry about there. Just want to make sure that you understand why it doesn't have any value in why it's so common. Then also if you have a whole life policy. So the question I'll ask is if you have a whole life policy and you're trying to split things during divorce, my question to you will be, well, what is that policy worth? What's the cash value on that policy? If there is a cash value to the policy, then that is an asset that needs to be split and needs to be discussed. Usually you don't physically split a life insurance policy, but the person who owns it, that goes on their side of the ledger and then the person who doesn't own that life insurance policy gets their share of the value from it, usually from some other asset.   Rarely do you actually take the cash out from the life insurance policy. It is an option and there's lots of intricacies and complications to it, but we're not gonna go through it cause it's just so minute and varies so often. But it is an asset, no different than a retirement account or a bank account or a valuable or collectible or whatever is. It has value and therefore it is something whose value you need to determine who's going to keep and what someone else is going to get in exchange for that life insurance policy. Now, the other side of the equation is after divorce, how does life insurance work? It's something that's interesting because oftentimes I'll hear from you, you'll say like, "Hey, my spouse is requiring me to get a life insurance policy. Does that make sense? Why am I getting a life insurance policy that my spouse owns or my spouse is the beneficiary of or whatever?".   Some cases, I'll tell you also like, "Hey, you should require that your spouse gets a life insurance policy", or I should say soon to be ex-spouse, "gets a life insurance policy because it can be effective for you." Here is the scenario. Why does that matter? Well, what matters is that if there are ongoing support payments, and they could be alimony/spousal support or they could be child support payments. If they're ongoing payments, then you may want to have an insurance arrangement ... I also include disability insurance. We're just talking life insurance for the moment ... to secure the spousal support or the child support payments. What do I mean? Well, I'm going to give you a very common scenario and I'm gonna try and keep the math very simple so you understand, and I can illustrate the point very clearly for you.   Let's just say you and your spouse have come to a settlement and your spouse owes you $1,000 a month in support ... Doesn't really matter what kind of support ... over five years. So $1,000 a month over five years. So after one year, that's $12,000 of support. In five years that's $60,000 total support that you're going to be owed. Well, what happens if your spouse were to pass away during that time? Well, if that were the case and you didn't have any kind of insurance, you would just be out of money. You would just stop getting those payments and you would have no way to get those funds that you were owed. Or, at least, it would be very difficult to get those funds that you are owed because there was no insurance set up that you owned and that could be devastating to your life.   Now, I use the example of 1,000 a month, but sometimes it's 3,000 a month or 5,000 a month or whatever the case may be or more. If you don't have life insurance to cover that, that can cause real harm to you if the unforeseen were to happen. Now, the element or what you would do is, so you have $1,000 a month for five years, so $60,000 of support payments coming in. What you would say is, "Hey, spouse, you need to get a life insurance policy with a total amount of $60,000 of coverage so if something were to happen to you, some unfortunate circumstance would happen to you, that I, the person receiving support, am not left out in the dust and finding myself broke all of a sudden because of your passing." If that person did pass away, you would get a check for $60,000 which would cover all of your support payments that are outstanding.   Or to take it another direction, if you're the person paying the support, someone may request of you to get a life insurance policy for all the outstanding support payments just to make sure that if something were to happen, that those support payments don't just disappear, but that person receives the support that you had agreed to. Now, it gets a little bit more complicated because there are a couple things that we have to think about. One is, who owns the policy and two is, can we adjust that policy down the line? What do I mean? Well, the first is who owns the policy. One of the things that's very tricky is if one person is the owner of a life insurance policy. You can't just call up the life insurance firm after your divorce and say, "Hey, does my ex-spouse still have that life insurance policy?"   No. And that ex-spouse might say, "Hey, I don't feel like paying for this policy anymore" and just stop paying it. If the worst case scenario were to happen, then you'd be in a position where they stop paying for the policy so the policy lapses. If they were to pass away, you don't get any money. One of the things that people write into the agreement is either the spouse receiving the policy is the owner or there's some sort of verification so that you can check in at least once a year, but usually more often than that, to make sure that the life insurance policy is still current and it is acceptable and everything is going on. The spouse that has the policy is required to provide verification anytime it's requested, at least annually, just to make sure that nothing goes missing.   Now, if you're the person paying the policy, if you're the one who's like, "Well, I'm already paying all the support and I have to pay for a policy on top of that, that doesn't seem fair to me." And I understand the concern. I'm not gonna make a judgment one way if it's right or wrong. My job is just to help people set up their financial picture in the best way possible. One of the things I would suggest, particularly if you're concerned about that, is to reduce the life insurance policy amount every year. What does that mean? Well, one of the ways to reduce your life insurance bill, and makes plenty of sense for me and whenever you see the scenarios is, let's go back to our scenario of $1,000 a month for five years. That's $60,000 total. Let's just keep the math very simple.   Let's just say one year has passed. Then there's only $48,000 cause you're paying 12,000 a year. One year has passed. There's four years of support left at $1,000 a month. That's 12,000 a year times four years or $48,000 of support payments are outstanding. But you took out a life insurance policy for $60,000. What you could do is say, "Hey, every year I'm going to reduce my life insurance policy amount by the amount of support that's outstanding." So instead of carrying $60,000 of life insurance, after one year you only have to carry 48,000. Then the next year you only have to carry 36,000 and then the next year 24, the next year 12 and then you're done. The reason you would do that is the lower the amount of life insurance coverage that you have, the cheaper your monthly premiums are going to be.   I see something very often, or at least I encourage people who have enough foresight to think about this kind of thing, is to say, "Hey, here's a way that we can reduce your burden", and there's no reason if you're the ex-spouse who's receiving support, you would have any issue with them declining the coverage or reducing the amount of coverage by the total outstanding support amount, because you still one way or another are going to get all the money that you had agreed upon. Now, it does potentially get complicated and it's something you have to stay on top of and you have to do the calculations, but it's certainly something that you can write into the divorce decree. It's something that you can negotiate in advance and there's no issue, no reason, that you shouldn't be able to reduce the amount of life insurance that you have for the outstanding support each year.   Another thing that I bring up, and this one is sensitive to state laws and also who's very savvy, and that is who's paying for the life insurance policy. Sometimes I'll say, ‘Hey,’ depending upon who's asking and what the scenario is and what the individual circumstances are. If one person wants a life insurance policy, the other person doesn't, or if it doesn't come up, you can split the cost. Split the cost of the premiums so that you're both sharing in it and it's something that you can, so you'll know exactly that it's getting paid every month, you're both sharing it and it doesn't feel like an unnecessary burden to either party.   The after-divorce scenario has a lot more moving parts to it, but I just went through them quickly so that you can understand what types of things that you should be thinking about when it comes to life insurance. A quick summary. During divorce, whole life policies generally have a cash value in which case you will need to split that and that's an important asset. Term policies generally don't have any value to them and therefore, although you need to declare them or disclose them, they don't really have a value that you split. Then after divorce, life insurance is often times used to secure a settlement for the outstanding support payments. If the unforeseen were to happen, the person who has potentially many years of support still supposed to be coming to them, that support is not interrupted by a spouse's passing.   One last minor point to that, because I went through a lot of very moving parts on that quickly. The other moving part is if you're really savvy and you really want to push for it, you can also get disability insurance as well for that same scenario of after divorce. Not just what if one spouse passes away, but what if that one spouse becomes disabled and still owes you a bunch of spousal support payments? You can't necessarily expect them to be able to pay for your life if they're disabled and can't work. Disability insurance is another way, very similar to life insurance in terms of the mechanics, that you could set that up for your future and protect yourself if there are outstanding support payments.

Heyy you, this is my very first episode after much contemplation. I am somewhat giving an insight as to what you'll expect to hear on my podcast. It's not always going to be serious, I'll be talking about my week and past experiences if you care to listen. My reason for making this podcast is to find like minded people but also to hear different perspectives. Sometimes I'll be in my room randomly talking to myself (I'm not crazy I promise

It’s a dawn of a new day. The secondary market is scrambling to find a new home and we look at the impact this has on bourbon growth. MGP stock prices took a major hit after reports came out that aged stock hasn’t been selling and we look at new competitors in the bulk contract game. Missouri is putting itself on the map having a legally designated bourbon, but are there ulterior motives? With Knob Creek re-instating the 9 year age statement, does it make it one of the best values in bourbon? With all of these coming together, how are brands being perceived? All this on Bourbon Community Roundtable #35 Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits enjoys finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. They then bottle at cask strength to retain their authentic qualities. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: Reddit AMA with the Russell’s https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/cme0nf/hey_reddit_im_wild_turkey_master_distiller_eddie/ This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about drinking bourbon how you want. Let's discuss the fallout of the secondary market on Facebook. How do you think the secondary groups will shift? What do you think of the MGP stock plummeting? https://www.barrons.com/articles/mgp-ingredients-stock-aged-whiskey-sales-earnings-51564610232 Is MPG now competing with new distillate like Willet? Do they still have higher age bourbon stock? Let's talk about the new Missouri rules for bourbon. http://whiskyadvocate.com/missouri-bourbon-whiskey-style/ Do you think this will happen in other states? What do you think of Knob Creek restoring their 9-Year Age Statement? http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2019/06/knob-creek-to-restore-9-year-age.html Are Knob Creek picks the best value in bourbon? Is the market oversaturated with Knob Creek picks? Have you seen variances in Knob Creek single barrel picks? How do you perceive brands when they raise prices? Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Jordan from breakingbourbon.com, and Sara from barbelleblog.com for joining. 0:00 Have you held a bottle of bourbon in your hand and wondered how that was made? Sure there is the grains and the barrels and all the science that goes into it. But what about the packages on glass manufacturing, shipping logistics, or purchase orders for thousands of cork stoppers. These are only a handful of things you need to know. But with the University of Global's new online distilled spirits business certificate, you're only a few clicks away learning from industry experts. all that's required is a bachelor's degree. Go to business.louisville.edu slash online spirits. We got the four of us tonight so we're going to like I said a little bit of a skeleton crew but that's okay. Also, just the four of us know Ryan either know Ryan either he's, he's not feeling too We. 0:45 We had it we had a pretty good week. Hey, everyone, 1:00 it's Episode 213 1:01 of bourbon pursuit. And this is a Community Roundtable recording. So we've only got just a little bit of news that we didn't talk about in the podcast. And the first one is there was a Reddit AMA or an asking anything with Bruce and Eddie Russell. There was a lot of talk about the cornerstone rye, which is part of their newest release. But there was one question that came up on the subject of dusty that I found pretty interesting. And talked about if there's any plans to release some older age dated bottles that have a similar makeup or construct a some of the dust sees that they've had before. Obviously, some of the thrill them is that they're no longer produced. And, you know, we've all had a taste of probably try some mid 80s, Wild Turkey, cheesy gold foil and the likes of that. And of course, many of us would like to think that hell that it's never going to happen. No one can replicate dusty, but here's what Eddie said in response to that. He said that there is some stuff development that's as close to cheesy gold foil. As we've gotten since that release. The taste is very similar. Well, that's quite the cliffhanger and that's about the juiciest detail I could find. If you want to read the entire Reddit AMA. You can get the link in our show notes. Today's episode was recorded back on Monday, August 5, which would have been Elmer T. Lee's 100th birthday. We talked a little bit on the show because Jordan gave us a reminder, but what we didn't expect was to see Buffalo Trace distillery, releasing a commemorative bottle in honor of his hundredth birthday. Here's a little information on Elmer that you may have never heard before. On August 5 1919 Elmer t Lee was born on a tobacco farm near peaks mill in Franklin County, Kentucky. Elmer served as a radar Bombardier on the 29 flights with the US Army Air Force in World War Two. After flying Michigan's Japan through 1945 Elmer was honorably discharged in 1940 six. He then earned an engineering degree from the University of Kentucky and graduated with honors in 1949. Upon graduation, he started work at the distillery which back then was known as the George t stag distillery, where he eventually was named General Manager. He worked at the distillery and kind of marking a milestone in his career, he created the first ever single barrel bourbon that was called Blanton's in 1984. He then retired in 1985. Elmer continued to serve as an ambassador for Buffalo Trace distillery, and the whiskey world up until his death in 2013. In honor what would have been almost 100 birthday Buffalo Trace distillery has announced they are releasing a 100 proof commemorative bottling of Elmer t leap, this 100 year tribute single barrel bourbon proceeds from the bottle of this sales will go towards the Frankfurt VFW post 4075 where else 4:00 was a former member. This is once again as you'd think a limited edition one time only release with the same age and Nashville as a standard routinely. But this whiskey is bottled at 100 proof and the suggested retail prices $100. Now, this Roundtable, it goes through a lot of topics where we start from the secondary market Fallout to deciding if bourbon brands care about their market perception. It's it really goes in a lot of different directions and I really hope you enjoy it. But for now, you're done listening to me. So let's go hear from my friend Joe over a barrell bourbon, and then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits, we enjoy finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. We then bottle them a cast rank to retain their authentic qualities for the whiskey enthusiast. Find out more at barrell bourbon.com. 4:54 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. This morning I made myself a big ol plate spaghetti for breakfast. That's right. I love eating weird things for breakfast sandwiches, steaks, spaghetti, random hot dogs, and so forth. I'm not a guy who typically follows the breakfast train of thought he have to have eggs and sausage. Although if I biscuits and gravy on the menu, it's over. I'm definitely ordering that. And I do like omelets. And you know, I like to play around. But I'm not someone who kind of follows the traditions of various meals. Sometimes I'll want eggs at dinner for example. And the only reason why I tell you this is because I feel like people in bourbon often want permission to drink bourbon a certain way or drink bourbon in the morning, you know before you go out fishing or at lunch when you're out with your colleagues. Bottom line is you drink bourbon how you want to and there are some rules that you should follow like I wouldn't if you spent 1500 dollars on a bottle of bourbon. I wouldn't mix it with coke if you paid $9 for one I would suggest like seeing if you really like it neat in you know, maybe use that as your cocktail mixing bourbon. But there really are no rules you drink bourbon how you want to. I will say that I've also stepped out of my comfort zone with bourbon in the last few years by making bourbon slushies. I think bourbon slushies are so wonderful and they tend to be the kind of wonderful introduction. It's a great way to introduce bourbon to someone who does not necessarily like bourbon or want to drink it neat. So if you have a little bit of time, go check out my bourbon slushy recipe, you'll be able to find it on bourbon plus.com here pretty soon. The irony of course is of just a few years ago, I was making fun of bourbon slushies. So let that be a warning to all of you. Be careful who you make fun of with what they drink is one day, you might find yourself pouring a little bit bourbon with a bunch of ice and lemon juice and sugar and making a slushy yourself. Also try spaghetti in the morning. It's pretty good. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram. That's at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Cheers. 7:22 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon. This is the 35th recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. This is something where we get some of the best bloggers and best writers on the scene to come and just talk about what's happening in bourbon culture. And we are chock full with all kinds of things that have been happening in the past three weeks. This is something that we do every three weeks to kind of get caught up on really what's happening with bourbon news. And, you know, we're not going to talk too much about kind of what's on the horizon. Everybody knows that. It's fall season, Fall season means release season. So we might say that one for the next round table after this. But there's a new face of the Round Table tonight. So I want you to Sarah to everybody. So Sarah, welcome to the show. 8:09 Thank you. Thanks. I've been writing a little evil spirits for about, I guess, 20 years now. So I wrote for 15 years at Leo is the barbell and then now I'm over at a inserted level until Wednesday as the culture editor, and that's actually shutting down Wednesday. So if there's anybody in town or outside of town that needs bourbon content, let me know. 8:36 Yeah, she's she's being very, very modest about it. So Sarah havens was like, she was like the bourbon beat writer for Louisville. Like anytime there was a new release a distillery opening or anything like that it by far had the biggest traction that you saw of any sort of local publication. So she did a fantastic job and all her write ups and being able to come with a very journalistic perspective as well. So thank you. Yeah, you're giving yourself not a lot of credit, Terry, you need a little bit more. And so with that, let's go ahead and there's two more familiar faces in here. So you know, Blake, we're going to have you go last because you're you're always 9:18 Jordan, you're up, buddy. 9:19 Sure. This is Jordan, one of the three guys from breaking bourbon. You can find us at breaking bourbon and all the socials. Check out the website breaking bourbon, calm for your latest release calendar and reviews and articles. 9:33 Cheers. Awesome. Fall release seasons coming up. He's going to be a busy man. Very much so but not as busy as this man with his Microsoft paint job. 9:43 Hey, we upgraded they now make a WordPress app for filling in states on a map. So 9:51 they really they do. They've been alive. It's like 9:54 they made it just for you. I know in like a few years ago, I was trying to pay somebody a couple hundred bucks to do. Lo and behold, I found it for free. Even better, because you're in paint on me. So it really, really hurts the release maps. Am I up? Oh, you're up. Okay. I am Blake from bourbon or you can find me usually here every three to four weeks. I'm also bourbon or calm. BOURBO or burbonr.com. All the social medias as well as seal box calm. And we did get cool new seal box hats in. So yeah, I kind of testing out the new logo. And yeah, so maybe I'll give one away by the end or something. Since we're not allowed to do alcohol giveaways on or just we're not on Facebook or Instagram. So 10:47 what? So again right now. 10:50 So check it out. Thanks. 10:52 And I guess that kind of leads us into the first topic tonight is kind of that was the big news. You know, it was actually it was too too roundtables. Beta been three roundtables ago, when we had Craig, one of the admins from the bourbon secondary market, which was the largest Facebook group that was out there had around 50,000 people in it, and they got really kind of the first notice that, hey, things are going to start changing. They tried to change it, they tried to say, okay, we're not going to make this a selling form and try to change the rules. That lasted like three days. And then, about a week and a half ago, there was the the kind of basically the CNN article that went out, broke the news and said, Hey, everything that deals with cigarettes with guns with liquor, everything's gone. And I don't know about you all, but at least in the span of like, 72 hours, like half the groups I belong to, or just disappeared, 11:51 for sure. 11:52 Yeah. And so I guess I kind of work let's talk about the Fallout and kind of what we're seeing in regards of where everybody's going moving to in sort of where everything is, gravitating towards. And since Blake, you have by far probably now one of the largest Facebook groups out there that for bourbon. Is anybody come knock on your door yet? Or is it still kind of like a? I'm still in the clear? 12:17 Yeah, no, we've we've always tried to keep away from that from bourbon or, or with the bourbon or group just because I felt like there were other groups doing it and doing it well. And I there was always that thought in the back of Hey, what if Facebook did decide to care about this stuff. And that's what I think we're seeing now. So we haven't had any issues. But pretty much everyone knows, you know, it's not for buying, selling and trading will still get the occasional post of somebody, you know, they're doing a little fishing. But overall, we keep all that off. So I haven't seen any issues from it. I think it's interesting that, you know, Facebook's deciding to crack down. Buffalo Trace seems to be pretty, pretty outspoken about it as well. You know, but it's just whether you love it or hate it, that's a big part of kind of the enthusiast culture is, you know, even if you weren't buying, selling, or trading, you were still probably in those groups, just watching prices watching what goes on. So that's a big part of the group. And I think we'll get into that a little bit later on some of the MGP stuff. But 13:25 I know that's, that's actual stock markets. 13:29 Sorry, I read that wrong. But no, it is kind of a part of the culture. So it'll be interesting to see where that goes. For me. It's disappointing because you know, whether you had the money or not to buy, it's still cool to see all these old rare bottles in your newsfeed. So 13:48 yeah, I think you're right about that. I think the culture there in just the way that the secondary market have been built around, it is going to take a little bit of a hit. I mean, this is where even people that weren't really into bourbon, they got into it and they see stuff and they become wild and actually kind of almost accelerated the bourbon culture a little bit. 14:05 It's crazy for me why Buffalo Trace hate hates it so much. Because I mean, let's be honest with Pappy Van Winkle really be Pappy Van Winkle if there wasn't a lot of these guys. I mean, it's still be very popular. But how many guys got into it? Because it's like, oh, man, now I could turn around and sell this for profit. And then it just hyped it up even more. And now every article is like, oh, here's the bottle that sells for 20 $300. Well, it wasn't stores, increasing those prices, it was these Facebook groups that were increasing the market perception of it. So 14:41 I think that's going to be interesting too, is even if people didn't trade and they were in those groups, I think they used it to justify buying a lot more bourbon and in their entry into the hobby, quote, unquote, if you want to call it that, I mean, I know a ton of people who have massive collections, they would never sell it. But they always like saying, Oh, my collections worth 20, grand, 30 grand, right? And I'm like, Well, if you're never going to sell it, it's really not worth anything. Right. But I think they were able to justify that because they kept seeing all the all the bottles move on Facebook. So be interesting to see if those folks, you know, go to another platform, find different sites, or if they kind of shrug their shoulders now they go out all right on to the next thing. And I think that's, you know, that's going to be something that's going to take an unexpected, but a bigger see the overall picture of what's going on. 15:30 Sarah, where do you see kind of like how things have shifted, you know, I've seen groups completely changed, like, there's no more buying, selling, there's new, basically, they try to change the name of all the group names. Like that's gonna do it. Like Facebook algorithms are so smart, you know, like, like Blake folded with one or 15:50 Yeah. 15:52 totally missed it, Adam. 15:55 Like, like, Where have you seen people start gravitating towards? 15:58 Oh, I mean, I've been on a lot of those groups, just because I love it reminds me of like collecting and trading baseball cards back in the day. And sometimes you can't always get that bottle that he wants, but you have like, four other bottles that people want. So, you know, I would just kind of use it to trade and stuff. But so I mean, I've seen people flocking to the movie platform. But I do notice that like, it's like probably cut in half. I mean that people might put something up there and there's no comments whatsoever. Whereas on Facebook, you would get instant comments immediately. And it would probably be only up there if it was a good bottle for like five or 10 minutes. 16:37 Even 10 minutes is probably a stretch. I get him a bottle. Yeah, I mean, I'm on the me, we thing now too. And I had to it was just like everything else. I literally had to turn off notifications after like, an hour because like every single new post and I was like, Well, I'm never going to check this now because I go I go to Facebook for my newsfeed, right, I'll go to the Facebook group, I'll go whatever, I'll kind of see what's knew. And that was always one thing that Okay, cool. I'll just see what kind of bottles for sale, but now I gotta go to a whole different thing to do it. So it's, it's going to be tough. You know, I think the I think Sarah kind of you're right there that trying to bring a new crowd over to another platform is, it's always gonna be an uphill battle. And so it's gonna be interesting to kind of see what's going to happen. And at this point, I think people started renaming the groups of things that don't have the word 17:28 bourbon, or liquid or trading or group. 17:34 I think it's, it's interesting to see people's creativity and how to try and get around it. definitely been a week or two. So we'll see if that keeps up. But I do give folks credit, you know, a few different groups that really focus on you know, posting different items. First bourbon, I won't mention what ones, I give them credit for their, for their creativity, that's for sure. 17:55 I think I saw one earlier that said, like, I've got to brown bears for saying that. 18:02 1212 cousins name Weller, 18:06 60 fishes, it'll be go to any of us. It's just like, at some point, you're like, Okay, let's give up on this a little bit. But I mean, there's, I mean, the other thing is, there's there's other platforms, there's me, we, if you really want to do it, there's bottle spot. There's, there's other places that that, you know, you can find stuff, even bottle blue book, you know, we know that people behind their like, nobody will buy your bottles from you. So there's, there's always going to be a market, it's just not going to be as centralized as it once was. Oh, 18:38 yeah. And that's what I was talking to somebody about it, and just, you know, I put this in the chat too, but just the accountability you had, because it was connected to people's Facebook. You know, there weren't a lot of fake accounts. So if something went wrong, you could probably track the guy down and you know, kind of the bourbon mob would be able to take care of a lot of issues that popped up. And you don't have that on the site. Like me, we are bottle spot, which are a little more anonymous. And, you know, you lose a little bit of the trust factor when it goes off of Facebook, which is the disappointing part. Because I mean, you think of how many times how many bottles you see that went or were sold or traded on a daily basis. And how many actual horror stories you heard from people who got scammed or something. It was very small, small percentage. And that's what I think it just opens it up for more of that when you don't have the Facebook accountability. 19:35 Yep. And there was, there was one comment in here. I believe, I can't scroll up and find it now. But there was somebody that said that they didn't really know too much about bourbon until they were introduced into the secondary groups. And that kind of what introduces you to all these other bottles that are out there in the market. That was kind of my first introduction to a lot of this too, is I remember the first time that I was joining this group that I'm not gonna say any names, but when I was into it, I remember seeing like the first bottle of like, will it family state? And I'm like, Oh my god, what is this? Like? How can I get my hands on it? I mean, I went around forever going to try to find it. And I didn't even know the entire time I just had to drive 45 minutes down the road to Barcelona go pick it up. Like it was there was always in the gift shop. So you know, there's there's definitely like there was an educational factor of what this brought to a bourbon consumer. But I think On the flip side, there's also this kind of piece where it says people become a little bit immune to other everyday bottles, because all these see are unicorns and that's all I think are really good. So there is there is a there is a downside to that as well. So, as we kind of like shift focus here, you know, one of the big things that also happened last week was in GPI anybody that is following bourbon is probably listening. This podcast is knowing that it is a huge contract distiller that's out there, and their stock just plummet. This past week, it went from a pretty, pretty good sizable investment, if you're into it about five or six years ago to something where you're like, Okay, probably should think about selling at some point. But whatever it goes, I mean, we're also kind of like in a downturn right now. It maybe if anything, now's a good time to buy. But what happened was is Baron Baron calm, wrote an article and talked about the sales of age whiskey actually fell in the past quarter, at in GPI. And it actually sent the stock down about 26%. Back on Wednesday, July 31. And historically, in GPI has been a big game spirits outfit, like the ALGEO and they decided a long time ago to bet their popularity on building up some aged inventory. In MTP at some points, they were actually getting the the price that they wanted for it nearly three times of their actual cost. But the volumes just weren't there as I'd hoped. And the way this article kind of summed it up was that some customers were having trouble raising the funds to make these large purchases, while others were waiting to see NGP would drop its price. Now, Blake, I'm going to hand this over to you because I know me and you we've seen the MGB priceless before. Do you think this as this is kind of valid, that they really were kind of trying to make it really out of out of the world here that nobody's gonna buy it, if you have the, if you if you don't have the wherewithal to spend that kind of cash? Well, I mean, 22:29 I have no doubt that it's slowed down based on the price list. I mean, looking back, so we bought, it was it was 12 barrels of just under 10 years. So it's nine years. And it was I want to say it was around $3,000 a barrel. Right now the priceless I'm seeing $3,000 a barrel probably gets you like a two year old product. From MVP, maybe, maybe four year old five year old if, if you find the right broker, that kind of stuff. So I have no doubt that people were slowing down on on their buying. And, you know, because you look at the amount of cash that it would take to do because you know, MTP only sells in really big lots, you know, you can't buy five or 10 barrels from MVP, it's got to be, you know, probably a half million dollar buy to buy from them. And so, you know, I just think the appetite for MVP selling probably got a little bit ahead of them and with what people were willing to spend, because then people are doing the math, it's like, all right, how many hundred dollar bottles Can we put on the shelf, because, you know, if we're having to buy at this price, that means our cost is x and we got a retail at at YN. So I imagine there was a slow down. And, you know, who knows? Maybe it is people trying to negotiate or? Yeah, I mean, it is interesting to see that play out on unlike a big scale of a publicly traded company, and, you know, their stock market taking that big of a hit, and one day just from that, but I'm not too shocked at all that there was a little bit of a slow down in there. But overall, I don't think that'll slow down the market, you know, all they have to do is reduce their costs or reduce their price, probably 10 to 15%. And it'll probably pick right back up. And there will still make way more money than they were 510 years ago. So I don't think it's anything but a small bump in the road at this point. 24:36 It Sarah, I'll ask you a question real quick. Because David Jennings of a rare bird one on one just said that in GPS now competing with some good new distillate like will it new riff? Like you kind of agree with that, that the days of you know, thinking that you can just get seven year MVP at a lower price point is is kind of done? 24:56 Yeah, I mean, I mean, we've got like Bardstown bourbon company coming on, I mean, I don't know, that's more for one level up from a consumer or you know, just one dude trying to start a business. But I think more and more competition is coming on the scene. Now, obviously, they're not they're distillate and it isn't as old as MGPS. But if people are willing to wait for the price to come down a little bit, I think I think they should think about that. And like it said, the article said, I think maybe it's talking about it, you know, it's kind of driven people away. So maybe we should just, you know, I thought that was funny. 25:38 shouldn't put all of our secrets out there. 25:41 Thinks what's what's interesting is, if you look at right MGPI stock price, I mean, this really resets, it basically resets all the gains that they made to us. 19, right, because there was a huge, they were building up pretty good in 2018. And then there's a big dip towards the second half of 2018 going into 19, that there's a huge run, and just looks like the markets running figure out what to do with them. Right. I think that a pretty consistent gain up through mid 18. But from here on out, I'm just like in the stock chart, it's it's kind of all over the place, up and down, up and down. Um, so I think the markets trying to figure out what to do with them. I think Sarah's right, there's a lot of new players coming online, right? I don't think they're going to be going anywhere, I think the markets probably trying to see what happens with overseas markets, because that really is the next big area to really put a lot of the source bourbon into. So it's just, it's just buying time and filling it out. But I don't think there's any crisis for them to really worry about per se, if anything, it's probably a good time to buy. 26:36 Thank you. I remember looking at the price list and stuff like that maybe Blake just he's got bigger pockets. And they gave him a better list or something like that. But I remember when I was looking at it, even the stuff that you could get your hands on, like their high right Nashville and stuff like that. It was they only had like, two to three year old age stock like that was really it. Nobody, there was nothing that said, Hey, here's our seven to 10 years stuff like I never saw it. Now, when you want to get into higher ages, they definitely had like corn whiskey, and they had some other stuff, but not just some other regular bourbon mash bill. Blake, did you ever see some of those things of higher ages of just the bourbon stock that they had? That not within the last three years? I haven't. 27:22 And that's what I don't know where it all went? Because obviously they had some 27:29 somebody had some of it. 27:31 But yeah, I haven't seen anything over probably five years. in quite some time. And yeah, so I don't know if they just sold out of it. Or maybe it's the same thing. They're just holding out for that higher price. And you know, I'm it's getting cut a couple times before, you know makes us priceless down to me. So I'm not seeing those prices. But no, it seemed like that all evaporated about two to three years ago and most of the aged in MTP bourbon was gone. So yeah, it is interesting to to kind of see how that plays out. And somebody made another good point in the chat is, you know who they're the distilleries and brands that are buying this. A lot of them were doing it while their own distillery gets ready. You know, somebody like a Traverse City. Let's say new riff there. You know, there's countless others their stuffs ready now? Yes. Smooth Ambler like, so they're no longer relying on it. Now. That's not to say that there's 10 more in line right behind those guys. But you know, eventually you would think it and then you get like a Bardstown bourbon company that's coming on. And they're pumping out a ton of barrels right now castle and keys doing a lot of contract distilling. So so there's a lot of other players in the game. But ultimately, just, you know, how strong is the demand side to pull all that through. 29:06 So but even with all those new players, it's still going to take time for it to come to, you know, to come of age. So it'll be interesting if MGPI actually has more reserved that they're just not showing their hand on and I mean, right now everyone's going right, if you want high age 14, you're going after decal, right? You're going after Tennessee whiskey. And again, there's there's not an unlimited supply of that either. there's a there's a finite amount that everyone can go after so and that dries up either, you know, MGPI has stocks to go for. Or at that point, you're looking at trying to get Kentucky Kentucky distillery to give you some niche stock, but if not, the markets going to be if you have any barrels sitting around, it's gonna be right for the picking. Yeah, 29:44 sir. I'll make you kind of looking at the magic eight ball here because I start thinking about this and I see I see kind of what everything that goes around comes around sort of thing. And so when you look at what happened to the market, where mean if it just not even like go three four years ago, like nobody gave a crap about MZPI everybody used to look at it go in GPI I don't want it and then whatever happened in the past year, six months, whatever it is, like complete one at every single bash it over it. And and now since we have all these new players coming on, yeah, you're going to have this kind of like bulk source market that is Kentucky. It's got that Kentucky name to it. So where do you kind of see like, if anybody's laying down today, and we fast forward five years from now six years from now is MTP is really gonna be able to compete with all these brands are laying down stuff that now says Kentucky on it. 30:40 Right I mean, that's a good question because it's all about marketing. If you think about it, I mean, sure, MTP had knows how to do it makes good juice. But if you want to market your you know, bourbon a Kentucky made product Kentucky bourbon, there's a lot behind that, you know, that MVP can't give you so I think I know it's gonna be interesting necessarily to watch. I think 31:07 that's one thing to think about, you know, think about all the controversy some brands have had because they mislabeled their product because it didn't still didn't Indiana, you know, like the Templeton's and others were kinda adds a little more ambiguity to some source products because of it just says distilled in Kentucky. Who knows where I came from. 31:31 That's interesting. 31:32 Absolutely. And Jordan, we gotta give you a shout out real quick if you just like we come into like a huge batch of Elmer TV because 31:39 it would have been Helmers 100th birthday today. 31:41 Oh, is that what it is? 31:42 Okay, what a turn 100 say so little tribute little shares to Elmer 31:47 Yeah, there we go. Shout out to that. I, I saw him I saw him drinking it. He's got like a case in his background. I was just kind of curious. What was 31:53 this Hello. 31:56 At that if I could get the phone phone call from your local and your 32:00 this is the round tables turning into the secondary market. This is now where it's no 32:06 natural auction. 32:09 Just Just hold up a sign in front of your camera like right now. 32:14 There's a trained auctioneer she's going to tell you 32:20 so so as we kind of like tail off on that last comment talking about like, Where could end up being a few years versus where can talk to me for years, all this other kind of stuff that's coming on the market. You know, there was also something that came out in whiskey advocate this past week that talks about Missouri, is now joining the ranks of Kentucky and Tennessee and actually putting in new legal rules, I guess you could say, to actually have its own silo whiskey, and in this case, bourbon. So according to House Bill 266, that was signed back on Thursday, July 11. Any whiskey labeled as Missouri bourbon must not only meet the federal standards for bourbon, but also must be mashed, fermented, distilled aged and by and the state agent oak barrels manufactured in the state. And beginning in January 1 of 2020. Made with corn exclusively grown in the state. So this law goes into effect on August 28. Now, Sarah, I'll kind of point this one over to you a little bit. Do you see this like as a foreshadowing the effect of we could see other states coming online? I know, we kind of saw this with the Empire right thing before and stuff like that, too. 33:29 I think I mean, right now, every state actually does make a bourbon. Now, Missouri is doing their stricter laws, like kind of like we do, and Tennessee does. I think it's only a good thing to be transparent. And especially they're trying to keep everything within the state. And that on that note helps the agriculture part it helps the they said in the article there was they grow a lot of oak trees so that, you know, their barrels are the best they say, we can decide, agree with that. But they want to make it anything more transparent. I think it's a good thing. 34:07 What about you, Jordan? Kind of get your thoughts on 34:09 this. Oh, this is interesting, right? I think that's a bold move for them to do, mainly because I'm sure I'm sure you can even play. She asked the same question. Countless times a week. Well, if people reach out and say I thought bourbon can only be from Kentucky, right? So I appreciate them trying to trying to, you know, move things forward a little bit. But at the same time, I can't imagine that's going to help anyone by labeling up Missouri, bourbon, because people are just gonna say, Wait a second. No, no, it's not bourbon lessons from Kentucky. Right. So it's great. They want to be state centric. Cool. You know, but no offense, I don't really think that's going to really help anyone. I mean, the good. You know, the good news is local distilleries don't need to choose to label it. Missouri bourbon. But on the flip side, I'm sure eventually there'll be a lot of state grants tied to making Missouri bourbon just making whiskey in the state. 35:00 I mean, you could you could also see this as a as a push for tourism, right? A Missouri trail or whatever it is, like they want to do something that gives a little bit of state pride into into whatever they're doing to 35:14 I think I mean, I think Yeah, exactly. So and I don't think that's a bad thing. Right. Pennsylvania, they recently just launched the the rye rebellion trail, right, the Whiskey Rebellion trail. I mean, so and that's great for Pennsylvania and Scripps in Baltimore a little bit too, but that has a lot of history behind it, like legit history of the whole Whiskey Rebellion, everything else. So it's a little it's a little hard to fathom what type of history they might attach that That being said, if a distillery can come up with some crazy story about the grandfather's recipe, and everything else, I'm sure a steak can come off the story about Wine Trail. 35:49 Yeah, so there was there was a pretty good quote here in the chat. So it came from Blake, first thing he said soon as he started talking about, he said, Oh, I Missouri resident here, I got some thoughts on this. I said, Okay, let's hear it. He goes, the rules do nothing to actually improve the product and the barrel. So I know maybe this is this is this is also just going back to the craft versus everybody else argument. Whereas everything that is coming from the big boys like they've have, they've had time, and they've had stock. And not only that is you've got economies of scale that make it super cheap. So this could be like I said, it might have to be a long play for Missouri to get there. But you know, this is funny when when I talked to Ryan all the time, and somebody says, Oh, you gotta go check out this distillery. It's so awesome. Like, they do this and this, and we're like, yeah, sure, I bet you they ferment some grain of wheat, some corn, and then they probably throw it in a mash tun. And they probably just still throw in a barrel yet, like the process hasn't changed in 20 years. Like we quit giving a shit A long time ago. And so it's it's kind of like, there's there, there's got to be something somewhere where a lot of these states can find that new. I just find find that that angle that is starting to make them. 37:08 Gotta differentiate yourself somehow 37:10 get on the map, somehow just get on the map. I don't know what it is. But maybe this is part of it. I don't know. I mean, Blake, you introduced me to Empire. I like you kind of see this as a move forward for a lot of people in different states. 37:23 Yeah, I mean, but you think how quickly can we burn out on it? You know, we got 50 states that we can everyone can have their own their own bourbon. 37:35 I'm waiting for the Hawaii one to come around. Because I'm going to the barrel pick. Okay. 37:39 I'm heading for that press trip if it comes up? 37:44 Yeah, I mean, it is interesting to see I think it is cool. The Missouri one, I think they've got a little bit with, you know, Cooper edge and everything like that the Empire I, they've done a really great job and making a product. There is some historical aspects best, especially with like, you know, Maryland style rise, Pennsylvania style rise. So it's cool that they designated it brings some more attention to it, and in a little more information, because while we do get a whole lot less of the question, it's still I mean, it popped up for me, like two weeks ago in a comment section of this post I had on seal box. And I was like, Well, you know, bourbon could only may be made in Bourbon County, Kentucky. Like, that's just not right. Like 38:34 that. We're past that. But a lot of 38:35 I mean, the average consumer, a lot of people still think that. Yeah, I go so far as the majority still think about it. I hope 38:43 not the majority, but you're probably right. 38:46 You know, so it is cool. It does kind of give a little more credibility to some of these distilleries. Like Jordan said, I wish there was something that improved the product or 38:57 Yeah, thanks, Jordan. Who said that or no, Clint and Blake, there's another there's another Blake in there. 39:04 Likes always have the most insightful comments. 39:08 But no, I mean, I wish there was something like like a straight days designation estate would do something like that, that says, okay, it's or bottled in bond, you know, something that that has a year state your age statement on it. That really does improve the product where it's cool to say, Yeah, all the the grains, the oak, and everything's from this state, but you know, could still be pretty bad, bad bourbon in those bottles. But it all in all, it's all about marketing. So it gets the name out there more gets more people drinking bourbon. I'm for it. 39:47 I mean, I just think they they took it almost a little few steps too far. I mean, it was literally mash fermented, distilled aged bottled right, Asian oak barrels that were manufactured the state greens grown there. 40:00 Are they gonna do you know, to make it Missouri? You know, I mean, 40:06 well, like I said, I think the part that we're probably ticket, it took it over the edge was like, had to be aged and oak barrels that were manufactured in Missouri, right. Like, there's, we all know that like, 40:16 straight bourbon doesn't Aqua sponsoring that bill? 40:20 Don't talk to trees. OC that Jordan might have something that might be independent state that could have been behind that, right? Because they've got a huge Missouri 40:27 presence. I mean, who really benefits from that, right? So it's going to be it's going to be the barrel manufacturers in Missouri, the people selling trees, Missouri, it's going to be the people growing the grains. It's really meant to benefit the local economy. 40:39 And this is where we get into our hypothesis of things. 40:44 What moves the political? 40:46 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, but like I said, I think, you know, Jordan, you made a really good point there that, you know, it really could be ISC behind that, that really says, like, Oh, this should be a part of it. Because, you know, until I really see getting into this, I didn't really know how many Cooper's we even had really here in Kentucky. And so perhaps there are a few more Missouri that we are kind of not shining the light on. But it's definitely a very valid point that you raise. Yeah, when it comes to it. So as we start moving on here, you know, Blake said something in the last segment really talking about well, if they're going to do something like bring it make it be bottle and bond, but sort of age statement, you got to do something that really kind of Willie wants to make the consumer started gravitating towards it. And this is one thing that is sort of relatively recent that was just announced that it's something that we've been all accustomed to, in the past two years now of basically every label out there losing its age statement. And this is because of the popularity of bourbon and just not being able to keep up with stocks. Nobody could forecast this to ever be where it was, however, beam Suntory came out with a press release saying that knob Creek is going UB restoring its nine year age statement on its on its bourbon. So I'll kind of Jordan like, do you really think that all of a sudden they're like hey, we got stocks. Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24. For bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait and get yours at bourbon on the banks.org. You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrel 43:00 To finish their whiskey, New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out. In 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling a beer barrel finish whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk beer twice, the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrels. rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rackhouse boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members and over 40 states. Go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye. Use code pursue for $25 off your first box. 44:03 Jordan like Do you really think that all of a sudden they're like, Hey, we got stocks? It's only been like a year like was this like a like a like a safe face sort of thing was this like, 44:14 is interesting. So we just did a one of our newsletters contained a topic piece on this a few weeks back. So you know you're seeing age statements returned in a number of ways, right? So I think the knob Creek might be a little rare in the fact that it may actually return and may kind of stay the same price for the most part. But what you're seeing as we're noticing is age statements coming back with the price increase or age statements coming back on a limited basis. I'll use limited loose quotes right. So the thing about a heaven Hill took off the six year right it's coming back as a seven year as a higher price point. Right Bazell Hayden last very standard A while back all of a sudden is coming out as a 10 year limited release will see more often. right we're seeing this 1780 more and more. And we're seeing those age statements come back and I'm still waiting for the big one. I know this is just speculation on my part. But I'm still waiting to see Elijah Craig just the standard version come back in more premium looking Bothwell bottles in place that are more premium price point, right, because I can't imagine that heaven hills not thinking about that. Right. But I think we're seeing that it's not the fact that age sucks, you know, appeared out of nowhere. It's a business right and I'm the majority of the bourbon distilleries calculated and play this out really well. Because now people do associate age statements and bottles as being higher, higher quality, more premium, and customers are willing to pay for it. So when those demons do come back, they're excited for right and love it or hate it. It's the reality at least people who are bemoaning the loss of age statements have that option, but it's going to cost a little bit more. I mean, they could have just as easily said hey, we're going to come out with a second 45:47 product line that is nine years at an extra like $15 a bottle and just kept doing there. You know NAS seven right here whatever stuff and just kind of had two variations of knob Creek there. So I guess go ahead Jordan. 46:03 I was gonna say you kind of saw that with a heaven hill with the white label bottled in bond right? I mean, you you had my guess it wasn't bottle and bond the one other one but you had the white label and then you had the aged white label and whatever on talk about a lot. So it's kind of like Well, what's the point of doing the non aged you know, the non HD version? So I think people just if there's two options, people are always going to go for the HTML right? It's it's just economics on that one. 46:26 Yes, sir. I kinda want to get your your kind of take on this. I mean, because we look at the market look at what it is I mean, we had Bernie lovers on the show when right 12 lost it and you know, everybody went ape shit and then you kind of talks about like, you know, this is you know, the bourbon is a bird business not bourbon charity business. And you talked about like, well, would you rather just take it off the shelf completely? Or, you know, just bring it back to whatever it is however there you know, I don't know what beam did to try to sit there and try to find these stocks that did this. But they did it without a price increase. So So kind of talk about your you know, kind of your feelings on this one. 47:08 You know, I think people are tiptoeing around idea of the bourbon bubble and if it's gonna burst or what's going to happen so i think i mean it it's probably a way for them to be you know, more transparent it seemed it seems to be my theme but I mean, it's a it's kind of like a an outreach to their fans to saying hey, you know, maybe we were short on this year but now we were back you know, or it could just be like don't leave us you know, there's so much more on the market we you know, we value you here's your age statement back and I don't know that might be kind of naive thinking but I'm glad they didn't raise the price because I like that 47:53 Yeah, well that's what I mean I think one of the things in the press release was talking about how Fred know said when some he wants to order you know, you're at a bar you want to order a knob Creek you expect it to be nine years now I don't know if that's really what is me it's just that it could just be a blanket statement that was given in sent out of course but that was one part of it. Now one thing that was kind of coming up in the chat was people were saying that knob Creek packs knob Creek pics are the best value in bourbon. Blake I kind of want to get your your ID on that because you know most of them are 10 to 15 years old like is is it really the best value in bourbon you're seeing right now. 48:34 Um, so knob Creek pics for me are a little hit and miss at times I've had some that man I'd almost put them up there with like the Booker's 25th release or something like that and then I've had others it's like wow, this is just like knob Creek off the shelf. So as far as price improve go, I can't think of anyone else that would be better. You're talking about essentially barrel proof 14 years old and 45 $50 a bottle whatever they are, I can't think of one that would be better in my mind. But yeah, I mean all in all, I think the more aged options we have out there the better so that's it's nice to see they brought the the age statement back. I'm actually not going to talk about bakers because I just don't want anyone messing with bakers we're just going to stop dabbling with the design and making payroll and leave it I want the nice Devon Black Wax top sitting on the shelf every time I go in so but no I mean to the original question aside from four roses three to four years ago not Craig's probably barrel pics that is not Greeks probably the best value there is right now. Four barrel pics that 50:02 you know it's funny we look at we look at barrel pics we always talk about barrel pics as being one of the things that you know you don't want to go chase after everything barrel pics is where you want to be. However it seems like this is always one of the ones that are so over saturated in the market and Jordan Did you kind of see that as one of those things that were like there's just so many of them out there like it's hard to just barrel fix knob Creek fix you know it's not one of those things that people go crazy for it's not a seven I say 50:32 that Yeah, I agree and I say that with us having a knob Creek barrel pick out there right now for folks for single girl club right 34 through a partner and it's true people I think people have a lot more readily available knob Creek pics at their fingertips than they then they realized in them they want because most stores will have a knob Creek single barrel out there, but they're pretty easy to get. They may not always be like a 1415 year old but they're pretty they're pretty well established is an easy pick for stores to do. Right and for the most part, it's one of the ones that you just get used to knowing that Yeah, for the most part a few times here I'll be able to go to knob Creek where I'll pick right so the excitement factor I think isn't there as it might be for some of the other barrel pics that people do. I'm sure you guys have seen the same thing with your barrel club pics to that you've done them and Blake the same thing Sarah I'm sure if you have a favorite liquor store that you go into often a little knob Creek barrel pics, they're just one of those things that's not sure if it's oversaturation or so much they're just readily available. Even if it's just one or two, you know, a year or two or three year it's more available than you might see some of the other brands out there that stores are doing similar things for 51:45 it, I'll kind of toss it out to the group too. Because 51:50 I don't think I've ever had a knob Creek single barrel pic that is like blown me away. But I've also like when we've done that I pre barrel pics like you go there or you get the sample shipped to you and your tastes of them. There's not a huge very difference between them like they just seem like they seem very they're all the same as me. I mean, I haven't really found like some that are just like crazy off profile like you have some that are like with Buffalo Trace that are just like you never would expect to this be Buffalo Trace versus some that are very sweet. And you can say that about a lot of different brands out there even new riff being one where you get a bunch of different flavors out of these barrels and stuff like that. I'll kind of toss it out to you all like have you seen like a lot of variants in your in your knob Creek single barrel pics. 52:37 So to me, the beam, kind of that funky beam, pod wet cardboard note always shines through. 52:48 Nothing that's a cell point like that, that Yeah, 52:50 no. Bad. That's why I lead with peanuts. 52:57 But I have had a few that I'm like, wow, this is really good. So you know, I wouldn't say they're all the same. 53:07 But you know you think about other Well, I guess pretty much everyone is using the same Nashville same everything. So beam definitely has a lot more to choose from. So if they're going for a profile, they've got plenty of barrels to pick from to find to put into the single barrel program that are all pretty similar. So but you know, I'll defend them a little bit there and say I've had some that are definitely better than others and some I thought were standouts, but I think if you put really anything beam in a lineup and you knows down the line, you're going to pick that pick that out immediately. So I think that plays a role as well. 53:49 Does anybody else get a little like turned off? Sometimes when they only roll out three barrels for you to 53:55 try travesty? It's a 53:57 Yeah. You're like, come on, I'm better at this like that. That's where you bring your own drill and just start walking. 54:06 Because they love that. Yeah, you if you want to get arrested and never invited back again, that's that's the recipe. 54:16 Alright, so let's go ahead, we'll kind of shift it to maybe one of the last topics for tonight as we start winding this down. But it's, it really plays into really well of that last topic, because, you know, Jim Beam is has done a very, very good job at looking at the market looking at its consumers, and saying, like, hey, let's restore this age statement, we're not gonna raise the price, we're not gonna do anything like that. You know, and there's other brands out there that are handling this in the same exact way. So let's talk about the impact of what brand perception really is. So you've got Buffalo Trace, you know, they stated that they will never raise their prices. You've got heaven Hill who did the exact opposite and raise their prices? I'm kind of curious on on. In Sir, I'll kind of let you kind of go first here like, what do you think is the the brand perception people will have when you have, like, that was an example like that, where somebody is raising prices? somebody saying I'm going to keep them steady? I feel like we're running get into like political debates, like, yeah, like, I'm gonna raise taxes like no, you know, it's, it's kind of like that. So kind of kind of talk about, like, how do you see brands in a certain light when they when they do this sort of thing? 55:35 I'm, I think, at the end of the day, people like what they like, and they're loyal. 55:41 I think I mean, the heaven Hill thing, you know, taking it off the market, and then raising it a year. And putting, you know, raising the price on it. That was a little like, you know, like, come on, you know, I'm brand loyal to you. But at the end of the day, like you guys were saying it's a it's a business. And if people are willing to pay it, then then why not? But I think I still think at the end of day you have your favorite and that's what you're going to go to, if you can find it. 56:11 And I have to kind of correct myself a little bit because makki sick in the chat said, well, BT just raised the prices on OWA. And I was like, Okay, okay, they did do that. Some other kind of lower end brands. Yes. They're I shouldn't say lower end but they're some are more everyday consumer brands. Yes. However, sir, more their premium items. Pretty much thing level field, there there be tax in the package in the world, they're really kind of stay in there for at least as least as far as we know. We'll see when the press release comes out in this fall. 56:40 Yeah, I'd be shocked if they raise those prices more than it'll be up. $10 it'll be what are we at now? They're like, 56:46 9999 Yeah, 56:48 yeah, it'll be up. $10. And, you know, I, it is a It's funny how short our memory is on all this stuff. Because, you know, I feel like we pick on heaven Hill a little bit because they've seemed to have done the most with, you know, Elijah Craig 18. Going away, coming back at $110. More, you know, no, we're not dropping the age statement of Elijah Craig. Oh, there goes the age statement. So we're going to pick on somebody else. So like, Buffalo Trace, they raise OWA prices, higher than well, or 12. There's all this you know, if you look at what the what's going on behind the scenes with a lot of the what these stores have to do to get, you know, Sazerac and Buffalo Trace products in that's to me is almost even worse than some of the other people but everyone has a short memory. Am I going to not buy a bottle of George t stag tomorrow? Because my retailer went in debt buying, you know, weekly vodka so he could get that one bottle? No, I'm gonna buy that bottle. So, you know, it's the whole consumer. Not to say that a lot of these distillers are bulletproof. But there's so many new people coming in, who just don't care or will never know, like, the details of stuff that goes on. I think, you know, the brands and distillers feel that a little bit and they just keep moving forward, they increase profits, they increase expansion, whatever it is. I just want to drink good bourbon. And you know, I can't think of one distillery that's done anything that's like a you know, I will never drink them again because of it. I mean, shoot, I tried Templeton a few months back after swore them off because of all their flavoring and no, we don't flavor and all this stuff. And I was like, as not as bad as I, you know, I was thinking it was terrible, but it's not that bad. So um, yeah, I mean, I think there's just a lot of room for for distilleries to move right now, especially with so many new people coming in. 58:57 I think it's a it's on the flip side, it's a fine line, right. So I appreciate what Buffalo Trace is doing by artificially keeping prices low on some of their products, because you have to remember the world we plan, right? We drink a lot of their spirits. But we'll go back to bourbon most often. But the average consumer you're competing not just for for what they buy in the shelves in the bourbon section. But if you piss them off enough, and they start going to discover other spirits, right? Take a bourbon iOS, and he's really into rum. Or he's really into Armagnac, or he's really into mezcal or anything else. Right? They may not return to the bourbon section anymore. And yeah, you may have actually pissed off that person enough that once they found another spirit at a valuable price, they might just be done with bourbon. So it's that fine line that you have to play of capturing the consumers are entering into the to the bourbon world and are willing to spend money, but also those longtime drinkers who are willing and able to switch spirit categories and don't have the discretionary income to just buy everything everywhere. 1:00:01 I'll buy everything everywhere. 1:00:02 Wow. I mean, we might buy everything everywhere. But you know what I mean? 1:00:06 Is if travel takes the right place, you see the right bottle? Yeah, well, of course. Oh, for sure. 1:00:12 Yeah, go ahead, like whole new market. Because there there was the guys who were just completely rien loyal, where they needed bourbon, they walked in and grabbed a bottle of Maker's Mark, and there was nothing else. And now I think it's a little more people are exploring. So I think brand loyalty that's being built and, you know, kind of the goodwill will mean a lot in the coming years. 1:00:37 I think everybody brings a very valid point to this, because when you look at how brands are handling this, they're all doing it different ways. And I think the one thing that people are the brands have to understand is that this is a long game. If you're if you're trying to go out for the short game, you're only going to succeed in the short game. And if you are trying to make a lasting impression that's going to last for decades, you know, making sure that you know, trying to raise prices trying to do this. Who knows it could backfire. You know, we've talked about on the roundtable before, and I think Blake brought it up that we could just be now experiencing the very beginning of what could be a super super super premium market where there will be a need to have $1,000 bottles of bourbon, like regularly on the shelves. As as we try to compete with scotch and stuff like that. So seeing is how it I don't know. And I look at it from two different angles now that I'm kind of saying and I'm kind of flip flopping on myself. It's kind of like yeah, maybe they should be raising prices. And then the other side of me saying like those bastards, why they're raising prices. But I mean, that's that's that's sort of like the, you know, we're in a very transformative time, I think for bourbon, where we see this massive growth, this massive opportunity. And it's either like, what kind of game you're going to play and in where can you either increase profits a little bit that makes makes you have a little more longevity? versus Where are you just basically taking advantage of the market and saying, I've got a 12 year old NGP bottle, and I'm selling it for $250 a bottle. Yeah. Right. Like that's, that's short term thinking. And so we'll kind of see exactly what how that sort of plays out in the the upcoming upcoming pieces here. But, you know, I think that's going to kind of round out a lot of the questions that we had for the night really looking at exactly the market where it is. I mean, we covered we covered a lot tonight. 1:02:36 knockout topics from there's only four people here. 1:02:41 Say I was like we were bam, bam, bam, bam 1:02:45 GP stock prices, Missouri bourbon knob Creek. I mean, 1:02:51 so it was it was awesome to have everybody on here and even huge thanks to everybody that joined in the chat. I know some people were sitting there saying that, you know, you know, Blake it talks about like, yeah, buy a bunch of boxes, so I can buy that and everybody's like, Hey, 1:03:06 I love I love Wheatley vodka. Like anybody's like this is a safe space. Fred's not here. We could talk about vodka. 1:03:15 We can mention it now that 1:03:17 don't save just remember that. 1:03:21 Absolutely. So as we sort of start closing this out, want to give everybody a chance to say, you know, kind of where they're where they're from, where they blog, everything like that. So Jordan, I'll let you go first. 1:03:31 Yeah, this

James: Hi listeners, welcome to Achieve Wealth Podcast. Achieve Wealth Podcast True Value in Real Estate Investing focuses on key players in valuable estate investing specifically on Commercial Real Estate asset class. Today we have Michael Becker who has done more than 7,200 units, primarily, I believe in the Dallas area, I know Michael can help me fix that. But you know, he has done a lot of deals in the past few years that he has been investing. Hey, Michael, welcome to the show.  Michael: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.  James: Good, good. Can you tell the listeners about things that I missed out about your credentials? Michael: Yeah. So, Michael Becker, I'm based in Dallas, Texas and I'm a banker by profession. That's kind of how I got into the business was loaning money to other people and went out on my own about six years ago now, so about six years of experience. And as we talk right now, we're just closing up our 34th and 35th acquisition. So puts us about 70 to 100 units that we've done in our career. So far we going full cycle on 16 deals. So we refinanced three out, return some Capital still own and we sold 13 of them. So as we talk, we currently own about 5,000 apartment units, the vast majority of those are up here in Dallas Fort Worth, which is where I'm based. We have 400 units in Tyler and then we have 900 units in the Austin markets. So we're Texas-based focused, predominately on Dallas Fort Worth and Austin for where we look to buy. James: Awesome. Awesome. So rarely, I get to interview someone who has come from, you know, brokerage business and also the landing site, right? But I always wonder why Brokers and lenders who lend money and trade deals never really become the buyer or the owner of the assets, right? So what was your triggering Aha moment that you said, hey, I should better just, you know, go on the other side of the table here and start buying deals rather than lend money? Michael:  Yeah to be a banker, you have to have a certain like mindset and generally pretty conservative and if you start becoming successful like I was as a banker making a lot of loans, they try to tie you in the bank by giving you stock options and have more investing period so it's kind of the longer you wait, the harder it is to leave. But for me, I was 35 when I left the bank, I'm 40 now, and we're just like this little fork in the road, I felt that if I stuck around it was going to be that much harder to go. And really what I did was this all day every day was making loans to other people like yourself that would be a buyer, distress deal, renovate and sell it for big profits and I kind of realized I was on the wrong side of all those deals. It's better to be the borrower than a lender.  And you know a lot of great clients, a lot of them are friends, my friends still to this day, and I was looking at a lot of them and I was like thinking myself like if that guy can do it, I definitely could do it. You know, not that they're not smart. But what I like about the business it's a really, really simple business at its core; it's not always easy to execute but it's pretty simple to understand. So I had a lot of connections, had a lot of experience, you know, I underwrote deal after deal after deal, I knew everyone in Dallas Fort Worth, I was in the industry. I just wasn't doing anything about it.  So I met my business partner, Shawn, back when I was at the bank and he was helping people out of California buy properties in Texas. I made a loan to them. And so, he was kind of sick of working for his boss the broker and I was sick of working for my boss at the bank and so we kind of went out on our own. And like I said, we're probably the second or third most active B classifier in Dallas Fort Worth and the current market cycle. So we've been pretty active here in Dallas Forth Worth.  James: Got it. Got it. That's interesting. I always wonder, I mean, what do the Brokers and lenders see in themselves that they want to continue doing that rather than owning an asset? Michael:  You know, when you think about it though, like as a banker, you don't have any money at risk, you got other people's money at risk, you got your clients' money, you got the bank's money and you know for you to go tie up a deal, especially today, I mean, you posted up six figures in earnest money or God forbid, you know, well north of that hard earnest money day one and get all this like Risk and then you got to go out and raise, syndicate the capital. So to take that to do what we do for a living, you got to have a certain amount of guts to go out and do that because you know, you're taking a calculated risk along the way and you don't have a paycheck. So if you don't do business you don't get paid. So that's a certain minority of people in the world I can go on and take that type of risk on and thrive and if you go out setting cases up like I do, you just have to be comfortable taking that kind of risk. And on top of that, you know, most of the stuff is on recourse, where you still sign and carve out. Some bankers get pretty, pretty nervous about signing, you know, I have 4- 500 million in debt right now so I mean that's a lot of money, you know, and to try to take that mentality, it's just a different type of mindset for sure.  James: Yeah, I guess the entrepreneurship mindset and whether you want to do it, I mean, especially if you have gone through the last crash in 2008, you can be very scared.  Michael: That's right, for sure. James:  So let's come back to how did you scale up to this large portfolio, right? Because I used to listen to your podcast when I started in this multifamily investing in 2015. When I was listening, I know you had like, first year in[05:47unintelligible] you had like 1000 units and now you have like 7,000 units, right? I mean maybe now you own like 5,000 units, but what was the system's process if you put back yourself back into that time and I know you made mistakes from then until now but you know, what are the teams or what are the processes and who would you hire first to grow to this scale? Because now it seems like clockwork for you because you guys have been... Michael: Yeah, so we started out, it was pretty lean. So when we first started out, I did the first four deals, first 800 units. I still worked at the bank and then I kind of had enough scale that I felt like I could you know, keep going. I had enough credibility in the market place; you buy one deal, you get a lot of credibility. You buy four like quickly everyone in town knows you're out there buying it because like I mentioned, I had a lot of resources like from the standpoint like all I did, all day, was underwrite apartment loans. I had a lot of connections to a lot of people. What was holding me back was that everyone thought of Michael Becker as a banker, they didn't think of me as a principal so I had to kind of change the perception in the marketplace what I was from a banker to a principal. So once I did that, that changed it pretty quick and then from there, we sort of started to scale. And so it was my partner Sean and I and we had one employee when we started. We kind of did a little bit everything and we all do a little bit everything when you're that kind of small. And so, you know, we were just kind of guys who were doing deals and then all of a sudden we woke up. I think we had seven or eight deals and we had all this work on us and there was still just three guys out there doing deals. So we had to figure out how to systematize so we started out with someone that's got an IT project management background experience actually, so she came in and kind of did operation; we were disorganized with stuff everywhere. So like our Dropbox wasn't orderly, you know, just wasn't everything wasn't save down. We didn't have any documentation of processes and procedures. So she came in the systematically, you know by meeting with me for two hours at a time., she'll talk about whatever, interview me and systematically built out all our policies and procedures and organize everything. You know, our chaos for life got real organized over a six to a 12-month period from there. Then we added an analyst to kind of help on top of it. And then we started layering in an administrative help on top of that and then you know, we start getting Asset Management help, hired a professional asset manager and then you know, we hired transaction people to kind of help run process the escrow and things like that. So those are the types of teams, you know, we have a third-party management company. I think you're vertically integrated when you do management in-house.  So we're able to manage 5,000 units with nine people; basically my partner and I and seven employees. We've got ahead and taken the approach. So I want to hire really high-quality people, pay them a little bit more money, but just be a little bit leaner. So that's kind of the approach we've taken because I really don't like managing people. So the lesser quality people will take a lot more of my resources so I rather pay someone that's a killer really high salaries and trust they can go out and do the job. But you know, admin help is the first thing I think you need. Someone to make sure you get organized. You have a process, make sure you get an investor database. Be really helpful, if you do syndication dropboxes, so we use dropbox all the time.  You'll have internal chat systems. Those are things that kind of we can do quick little messaging, you know, all sorts of stuff like I talk about, about raising money more efficiently if you want to go down that path or if you want to talk about operation, we talked about that too. But just trying to use technology and work smarter not harder. And every time we do a deal, at the end of the deal, we always have a Post-mortem meeting where we go over the good and the bad and we take away lessons that were bad and then we take those and try to improve the process for the next deal.  And when we first started out, they were a lot of bigger issues and now, fortunately, the issues are really small and minor because we got the list of stuff you don't ever want to do again list, got really long pretty quick and try not to make the same mistake willingly twice. James: Yeah, so can you name like top three things that you have realized from that not to do list, can you share it with the listeners?  Michael: I mean around raising capital in particular, you know, we first started out, we had a database and I needed to raise a million. I remember I had to raise a million four for a deal, I think it was a million five something like that. And it took me about 20 25 people somewhere in that range to get a million five in, a hundred thousand minimum. We first started out I'd get a package. I need be able to an investor. I set up a call and have an hour-long call, 45 minutes to an hour long call and I had to do that 25 times. Now, what will do is we'll email the list, we hit schedule webinar and it's at, you know, seven o'clock Central Time on Wednesday. People that can attend Live, great. If not, we'll send them a recording of the webinar. And then they can watch the webinar when they want to and then I have a five-minute call with them if I need to resolve. So I presented all the materials of the deal so maybe a lot more efficient that way. Whereas, you start scaling up doing like webinars a lot more efficient way to present your opportunity than one on one calls. Because, for example, we just finish up with 24.6 million dollar equity raised and if I had to do that one call at a time like that is so huge, you can't do that. It's going to be 200 people basically invested to get 24.6 million. So, you know, you'd have to have 300 calls to get that and that just isn't an efficient way of doing it. So, that'd be one thing.  Another thing that's been official, as I said we got an investor database. So when you invest with us, you go to our database or portal up our website you fill your stuff in electronically and you electronically sign your documents. And that's a much easier way of going about it and getting the old school, paperwork out, that's kind of how we started. And then finally what was another good way to be able to work efficiently. You know, I think we got more efficient the way we've kind of work it and keep people in line and we clearly communicate what's expected of people and we're really consistent with it. So those are things you grow into, those aren't things you necessarily have money to do out the gate because we, you know, spent a couple of thousand bucks a month on our investor database. So if you have zero units to spend $24,000 a year on a database doesn't make sense. But you know, gotowebinar is certainly something you can do and you can use a Google sheet instead of a set of a database until you ultimately get enough revenue where you can afford some of the more technology tools that are available out there.  James: Yeah, yeah. In fact, I just launched my investor database yesterday, which was a lot of my investors love it. They just say it's so nice for them to see their dashboard, in terms of investment because a lot of them have multiple investments with me and it's just nice for them to see. And all the documents are in one place and they can just log in and get the report. They just love it. Michael: And it'll help you when it comes to tax time to track all your distribution in there, I'm sure and then you don't have to go recall your distributions at the end of the year to do your K1s. James: Got it. So coming to I mean you must have a good number size of passive investors. I mean, how do you select certain passive investors for certain deals? I mean is it first come first serve or how is that? Yeah, so we have, let's see, I did 900K1s last year. I think I had about 500 unique investors when we closed the year out. We just raised, I'm not quite sure what the stats are of how many are a repeat, how many are new but I probably have 600 unique investors who've literally invest with me at this point in time. And we're going to do 12-1300K1s  next year easily. So yeah, we generally will so we definitely have like a blacklist, right? So if we take your money and you're a pain, we'll make sure we don't take your money again. That's certainly the thing I think everyone should do that for sure.  On the front end if we think you're going to be a pain we'll generally kind of blacklist you as well, life's too short. Yeah, too many people, we don't have time to have a little distraction. But basically when we have an offering, we'll just go in the database and you'll get together like the MailChimp will send out a little, hey, coming soon email or save the date email, got a future opportunity coming up and then you just email the database and just generally first come, first serve.  Sometimes we have a couple of guys that we know that we have a special situation with that. They're like, hey, I have this money. I want to place it with you. Maybe we'll give them a little bit of a head start to deal from time to time. But generally, send it out first for people to pay attention, fill the paperwork out, get it all done, wire the money in, those are the ones that get into the deal. James: Yeah. I mean, I agree with some investors being a pain. I mean, it's just so hard to win. Especially sponsors like us. I mean, there's so much of moving parts and so much hard money in and on day one, I mean, so much money stuck on escrow and this has so many things going on in closing a deal. And there will be some people we just had to deal with it, right? Michael:  Yeah, so, you know, it wasn't the vast majority, people are great and but you know, one of the things that I was talking with one of my buddies, he's syndicating his first or second deal, yesterday, and he was getting a little frustrated, it wasn't going quicker and I'm like well just because you have a deal in escrow and you have a deadline and it's important to you, doesn't mean that it's not as important to investors, but they have other stuff going on their lives. So you got to be able to make sure you meet your deadlines. So you got to consistently communicate deadlines and be proactively reaching out to people and you know, you gotta push sometimes to get these people. Because if you don't stay in front of them, they're going to get distracted and something else in life is going to come up and they'll just simply forget that, you know read about your deal. They don't mean to and it's kind of like happens.   James: Yeah. Yeah, I always communicate as well to make sure that everybody knows the timeline and when do we expect things and keep on communicating to them because everybody's working on getting things done, the passive investor, the sponsors and all that. So that's important. And so the type of deal nowadays that you're doing because usually I mean, I'm not sure whether you know, I wrote a book called Passive Investing in Commercial Real Estate where I categorize three different types of deal, which one is core, the other ones are light value add the other ones a deep value add. So the type of deal that you're doing, can you describe those characteristics? Michael: Yeah. So when we first started out, we bought a whole lot of[16:37unintelligible] that's kind of generally where we started out that's where most people start out. So the first probably ten deals may be more raw 1960s 1970s vintage stuff and then about two years into the business, we started to transition more in the B-class. So Texas, things like the 1980s vintage. And then really the last two to three years the vast majority of what we have done had been kind of more B plus, A-minus. So things kind of like late 90s all the way to about 2008; that's kind of my most favorite part of the market, as we sit right now.  We have done a couple of brand new deals. We had some exchanged money, we sold a BDO and we just bought a brand-new 17:16unintelligible]  and then we bought a few deals a little bit older than the 90s. But generally speaking, if you ask me, A-minus is my favorite space and a couple of reasons for that. Now one, if you go back when I first I bought my first apartment 2013, I bought a brand new class A Deal in Dallas for about a 5 cap, a BDO was like six and a quarter six and a half cap and a CDO was like eight, eight and a half cap. Fast forward to today an ADO is like a 475, a BDO is like a 5 and the CDO like five and a quarter by five and a half, something like that, right? So what used to be a big gap is now really, really narrow.  So we have the ability to track larger amounts of capital. So it make as much sense to me to be on a risk-adjusted return basis to buy a 1970s piece of crap building if I can buy a 2004 vintage building for a similar cap rate. So that's kind of what we're focusing on. And the stuff that was built that's 15 years old, stuff kind of on the 2000s. Still, most of those have like white appliances and cheap light fixtures and you know, no backsplash and you know cheap cabinet fronts. You still do similar value add things like flooring, appliances, fixtures, backsplash, cabinet fronts and still push the rent lift up a hundred dollars or maybe more per unit by doing the work. So that's kind of my favorite part on the market and then just kind of we've been fortunate enough to have a couple of deals go full cycle and return a bunch of capital. So we have a lot of money in our database and so I can't simply go raise two or three million dollars, that's just too small, you know, we need to be raising, you know, nine ten million time minimum; it's just too small. So we're just trying to do a little bit of a larger deal. And that's kind of what we've been focused on and say light value add, A-minus that's the vast majority of what we do with a couple like more newer stabilized kind of deals then thrown them in if we do an exchange or we just think we're getting a good basis on a deal. James: Got it. Got it. And also the other thing that I mentioned the book is the passive investors will be, they would like to invest based on their preference or based on their investment cycle. So when you look at your passive investor demographic, do you see some differentiation in terms of these are the group of people that like to invest in my deal?  Michael: Yeah, I mean, listen with 700 different people that invested with us you get a little bit of everything, right? You know, but that's one of the things that we always try to make sure we stress is you know, hey, here's what to expect. You know, we're really explicit about what the projections are, the timing and amount and the timing of the cash flow and when you do a syndication, ultimately most of those things need to sell at some point. It's hard to keep a whole bunch of unrelated people to together for perpetuity; forever is not a good hold in a syndication environment. That's cool if it's like you or you and a partner or a really small group of people, but when you have, you know, a hundred unrelated people that's hard. So we want to make sure when we're communicating with them that--and they understand like, you know what to expect and I also let them know if we're going to sell it and it doesn't fit what your objectives are, then this isn't a good thing for you to invest in.  So we try to be really explicit. So we match expectations properly because what I don't want is a year down the road, for you to be upset because you thought you were investing in, you know, one thing and there's really something different so, you know trying to be explicitly and very clear to our investors is what we're trying to do.  James: Yeah, that's good. That's the best way to just make sure that everybody knows what they're getting into right? So with the market at the current cycle right now, I mean in DFW Austin, you know, the whole taxes or places where you're investing it's very hot right now so, where do you think we are right now and how your strategy has changed in terms of acquisition? Michael: Yeah, I mean. You know, this has been a hell of a run where we're nine years into this thing or something like that. I mean, it's been one hell of a run. You know, with that said, the more we focus on a predominately Austin which is where you live in Dallas which is where I live and if you look at the population projections about three weeks ago, I've done this with staff about three weeks ago. The Census Bureau came out and kind of have stats for the growth 2018. So Dallas, Fort Worth from 2010 through 2018 over an 8 year period, there are a million more people in here in 2018 that was in 2010. So, we went from that 6 and a half million people to about 7 and a half million people and their projections in Dallas Fort Worth are to grow from about 7 and a half million people to almost 10 somewhere between the next 12 to 15 years. So to put that in perspective that's about two and a half million more people coming to Dallas, Fort Worth if the projections are right. So that's the equivalent of like the entire metropolitan area of Charlotte or Orlando and then putting it on top of Dallas, Fort Worth today. And everything I just quoted to you about Dallas, if you take the percentages, it's even higher in Austin. So Austin is growing even faster on a percentage basis. If you feel like just driving around, there are just more cars, more people all that. So I don't know a whole lot, James, but I know if the equivalent of the entire metropolitan area, Charlotte is put on top of Dallas Fort Worth[22:50unintelligible] have to go higher right? They just have to go higher. So what we want to do is, you know, make sure that we're focusing on the right locations within the metropolitan area. You know, we're trying to buy away from these Supply the best we can. We're buying like Suburban multifamily deals in better school districts. We're trying to focus on basis. So we're trying not to pay Crazy Prices. One of the strategies we've done here recently is focused on properties that you can come buy and assume someone else's mortgage and you get this avoids having a large yield maintenance or the [23:24unintelligible] prepayment penalty. So you get a pass along a lower cost to you as a buyer. So that's a way to kind of counteract that a little bit.  What you give up as a buyer; you give up five years of interest only on the front end as you're assuming a mortgage that's most likely already amortizing so kind of hurt you up from yield. But if you save a million dollars or two million dollars in basis, you know, one day, that's going to burn down if you need to sell it or refinance it free and clear. So that's one strategy we've been doing. And then here's another thing. I mean you own a bunch of stuff to San Antonio like those we were talking about before we started recording. You know, this is one of the things I would say, it's completely unfair business, you know, a lot of it who you know, what you know, what chips you can trade. And you know, I own a lot of stuff in Dallas but I walk in the San Antonio, you know, you have more clout in San Antonio than I do, just because I don't own. So the Brokers are more apt to sell you something than someone that doesn't know that market. So we're at this point in the cycle doing 35 deals or some like that at this point, we know everybody, everyone knows us that our Brokers are players in town. So we get our unfair share deals. So, you know, we're looking at a lot of stuff and we're trying to be selective with it. It's also as far as strategy goes, you know, the lone assumption route has been something that's been successful for us. And then two, we put up a lot of hard money. That is the other thing that helps.  So you can put up a lot of hard money, get aggressive with your terms, you know, act quickly, you know, we got a deal in escrow that we officially never got to tour, you know, so we had to go shop it and then we never got to tour it and so we just basically got it in escrow went hard [25:10unintelligible]  without ever having an official tour and I can do that because I've done 30 something deals. You don't do that on your first deal. So I know what's up, I know what's going on and we did our due diligence and we didn't find anything that we didn't already expect. So we knew what to expect and that's what experience and repetition gives you a psyche. I got my 10,000 hours and I kind of know what's going on. I kept having to make better decisions, quicker with that level of experience.  James: Yeah and brokers love it too because for them is like you're a very easy buyer because you already know the submarket. You're not going to give a surprise and they have done deals with you. They just love it things to go much smoother. They make money as well. So they love the repeat buyers and the local players, as well. Michael: Yeah, that's right. And then we're all friends like we go and have drinks together we go to the baseball game together. We all become friends and you know people do business with people they know like and Trust so being local in the markets that we own and operate in. I was at lunch before this podcast and ran from the[26:17unintelligible] Brokers because of their office across the street from me. Walking down the street and you ended up having lunch in these just randomly. And as I was walking out, one of my competitors who own like 12,000 units whose office is around the corner for me walked across me in the hallway, you know, and on the sidewalk, I mean so this like being proximity and doing a lot of deals that stuff helps. James: Got it. Got it. So let's say nowadays, what's the process of your firm looking at a deal? So let's say today there's a deal coming. I mean, it's not on the market, the broker tells you, who looks at it first, how does it come to your eyesight before?  Michael: Yeah. The way we are set up, a deal comes in, say I get it, you know comes across my desk. You know, I basically kind of where's it located? You know, what's the basic price? Right? So I'll just kind of go to Google Map. Make sure you kind of know the location I'm in and I know whatever location that they are sending us. Like we know like the markets because we're in the market. So, you know, usually, most of the deals are like, no, it's the wrong location or no, you're prices are extremely insane. I'm not paying that price per unit for this type of product. And so usually a lot of people kind of get kicked out, but if it passes kind of that basic high-level test, then at that point usually we'll do like a real get the financial statements in from the seller. And then what we'll do like a real back of the envelope analysis.  We'll spend 20 to 30 minutes doing a real high-level underwriting just to make sure that it kind of passes the high-level test and usually a lot of those deals die right then. So, you know, the deal was just like, you know the match it doesn't work. It's just way too expensive or we don't think there's not much upside in the rinse. Just whatever it is. We kick a lot of deals out that way. Then if it passes that deal usually at that point, we'll do a full underwriting and that will take this like four hours. You know, we have a CFA that's our analysts. Our analyst will go underwrite the deal for four hours. Since it's my partner and I, then my partner will go through and kind of review the model. And once you review the model, it passes that, then, you know usually, most of the deals kind of die right there then they don't really work. But the deals that kind of pass that screening that's when you know, we'll kind of get down and get serious about it. And I think that point that's usually when I go tour. So that point, they pass all the tests so we set up a tour maybe put [28:34unintelligible]  in early kind of depends on the situation. And so, you know, we're looking at you know, 60 70 deals to get one that actually makes something like that. That's probably somewhere in that kind of General ratio is what we look at. And we just have like little series of check marks along the way that we gotta like, you know, but doesn't pass this one little test and let's just kill a deal and move on. I found on the biggest cost to have in my life anymore, stop tuning cost. So if I spent a lot of time on one thing it's at the expense of something else. So my time is precious. So just trying to make sure I get, you know, use that the most widely and don't chase these deals for you know weeks and weeks. I never had the opportunity of actually making it in a day. So that's hard to do when you're first starting out and that's a lot easier to do when you have some experience.  So when you start out, you got to learn these lessons sometimes the hard way. You got to underwrite this deal that if you would have just at the end of it just kind of be self-reflective like, you know, what could I have seen earlier on this deal that would have stopped me from wasting a week of my life on it? You know, you need to start that. I think that's what separates a better apartment owner, ownership syndication type groups from the less successful ones.  James: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I don't look at more than five parameters in any P&L to decide whether I want to dig deeper. So what's the ratio of deals that you look at verses you looking at and passing it to your analyst for the four hours underwriting? Michael:  I mean, it's probably pretty limited. So if it's called 60 deals to get one, I mean it's probably, at least half just get killed or your pricing is way too high or it's the wrong location or the deal too small or something physically about the deal I don't like. So that's probably half of them and the ones I've been going to like get a back-of-the-envelope, we probably kill, you know, the 30 that make it through on the 60 we're probably killing, you know, so that's 20 right there. Then we'll probably underwrite, you know, ten to get the one type of thing.  James: What do you look for in a location?  Michael: You know, yeah, so we're Suburban multi Family Guy. So good Suburban location that is in the better school districts, you know near major thoroughfares preferably to have access to Lifestyle and Retail amenities like, you know, like they are near a Starbucks, near a good grocery store, you know, retail restaurant, stuff that people want to live in. First and foremost, low-crime area too, I don't want to buy in the hood. So, you know, no low-crime area. Those are the things I look for and we're targeting, you know, preferably 200 plus unit, A-minus family deals, but that's kind of my perfect deals. An A-minus deal with more than 10% or an upside, you know it's well located, low crime, better School District, near employers, near retail and restaurant. That's kind of what I look for.   James: So, can we go a bit more deeper into the back of napkin underwriting? So, let's say there's a $10 million deal you know, 50 unit, maybe a 100-unit deal, how did you underwrite that? Back of the Napkin. Michael: I mean, so what is the first major metric is a, you know, one other [inaudible31:51} ransom what's our basic market survey say . So, pull a [inaudible] and look at the market rent. So then how much upside do we have in rent? So, I say, so, if there's only 5% upside in rents then it's probably not ideal for us, you know, we typically 10 plus percent in upside of rent to make the mass work. So, if I only have 5%, I know when I layer in my sponsorship compensation it's just not going to make sense. All right, so you know, like it's just not going to have no margin for us to be able to go attract capital. So, that's the first thing and then we'll then obviously go down and like other income or other income opportunities, then obviously look at the expenses as well. Michael: So, you know, one of the deals were we just got awarded, the payroll is by 1600 ,1650 a unit and it should be 1200, you know, so we can on day one, boom, take 450 out of payroll that certainly helps quite a bit. So, we're looking for things like that, that's kind of what it is. And you know, basically for maybe if you think about it at its simplest form, James, like, I need to do a deal I need to be able to deliver somewhere between 13 to 15% IRR today that's what takes me to attract capital. So if I can't get a deal layer in my compensation layer in whatever capital you need to do, um, you know, talk to the purchase price and I don't have enough upside of rents because at the end of the day, if I can't produce a 14% or 15% IRR over a five year hold period, my investors don't want to invest. So, I can't spend time on deals on can produce those types of returns. So, we're just trying to find, stuff that has enough upsides would be able to produce that. So, whatever that is, reducing expenses, increasing income, the two most common things, or is there some sort of way we can get a different type of debt quotes that may be kind of juices, some of these returns or whatever the specific situation is to that property. That's kind of what we're trying to get to the heart because, if I can't produce a 14 or 15% return, I need to shoot the deal and move on. James: Got It, got It. So, coming to 13,14% IRR is it to investors, or is it overall returns on ... Michael: Investors right. So, if it’s like 15 investors 17 and a half, 18 to the deal and you put a sponsor comp in there? So, it's got to be, I gross 8 total 18 they get up 15 and our structure or something, something like that. James: Got It, got It. Yeah. It's interesting on the debt code side, no, sorry, before I go there, how do you know that the seller is not taking some of your upside? Because nowadays that's what sellers do, right? They price it slightly higher; they give you upside, but they price it higher, which erases your upside. So how do you determine that? Michael: That's the whole thing why we don’t buy c class anymore because of the same catch, so yeah you know, that's the thing so I mean, all these deals that have a lot of upside have a lot more interest and so they can again, bit up and the cap rates are compressing. So, the trick is you got to overpay a little bit, but you can't overpay too much. Right. James: Right. Michael: And that's kind of like what you're doing. So, at the end of the day I got to, I, it's as simple as I deliver a 15 IRR and if I can't deliver, I can pay up to a certain price and then you start doing past out price and I can produce the returns I need. And that's kind of when we back off. James: Okay. Michael: So that's kind of how I think about it, so, every, most of the deals we'll work out at a price. So, we just kind of get to where this is the Max price what we can do to push to push out a 15 IRR for investors. And so that works up to 20 million and 20 million, 100,000 it doesn't work. So, you got to kind of draw the line in the sand and have a lot of arms in the fire. You get a whole bunch of deals working all at the same time. Usually, they start popping. James: Yes, yes, yes. The basis of my question is because they could be $150 or hundred dollars a rent bump potential, but the seller has priced it so much or we could have outbid-- Michael: Yes. James: --so much that it's not worth it, right. So, to do that because you might be just getting-- Michael: Yes, there's that. And then you get a little nervous for some of the less-- the newer people in the business, with little less experience like you're going to pay a five cap for 19 C class, 1917 deal. Okay, location and suburban St. Tonio or Dallas or whatever and then you're going to perform like a five and a half or five 75 extra cap. Five years down the road for a c class deal, maybe that, maybe that's the right cap rate, maybe it's not, it needs-- as you go and improve the property, you're able to increase rents and by extension, you value you’re in a why. But at the same time, the more upside you take out of these deals because your turnover, 50% units upgrade them, shrinks your buyer pool cause everyone wants value add. So, the more value you take out on the deal, your cap rate actually goes up. So, it's like a weird little dynamic you're in that you got to like, you got to factor in. It's like a 3-D puzzle you're doing because what's great because you're increasing, you're why. Because you're raising your rent, but at the same time you're also expanding your cap rate, as we sit in the same marketplace. So, it's interesting, complex puzzle, the marketplaces are right now. James: Yes, I was talking to a broker and you say hottest deal to sell nowadays it’s like deals where everything is done right, 90% is done. Michael: Yes. James: Nobody really wants it because everybody wants value add right? Michael: That's probably the opportunity to go buy a bunch of that stuff. Cause that's what today is. And then if you can get higher leverage loan, you get a 75% loan and get a good low-interest rate and get a bunch of I Own and go buy a deal that's turnkey. Maybe that's a better way of going, to be honest with you. And just kind of get a little bit more your return from current yield versus a big pop on the backend. That's thought about strategy, to be honest with you, it's a lot more safer than going and doing a bunch of work on a property-- James: Yes. Michael: --and paying a 475 cap for 1970 deal. I'd rather pay a six and a quarter cap for six and a half cap for a deal that's already done. James: Yes, because the backend is not certain. Right. Nobody knows what's going to happen-- Michael: Right. James: --at the [inaudible37:58] cap rate, so. Michael: That's right. James: So that brings to my next-- Michael: And then you do all the work, you might expand your cap rate anyways. And then you're doing all this work to only get half the payment. So, I think if I could go back in time, I would've bought every deal on a bridge loan. I would not have spent a single dollar in renovations and just operate it, wait five years and you sell it in today's environment for like a freaking 475 cap, that would have been a better decision with the benefit of hindsight. James: Yes, correct. Correct. So how would you-- sorry, in terms of cash flow vs. IRR vs. Equity multiply, right? So, what do you see, what is the most important number that-- for you, right, I know you're passive investors need to look at? Michael: Yes. You know, I think everyone, that everyone's different too. Like, all my investors have different things that are most important to them. I think, honestly at the end of the day, a pair of this investment, that investment, IRR is really kind of the driven. I'm not the biggest IRR in our store. We, I think the cash on cash certainly matters because I can't pay my bills on IRR, but I can with a check every month. So, I, that certainly protects it. But at the end of the day, really, we're focused kind of when we're-- comparing this, it's up to you in the next one, really kind of IRR. Because you know, if I'm able to come in this deal, I assume a mortgage and refinance in the third year or something like that and have a partial return of capital that pops my IRR pretty, pretty good. And I keep take some of this capital and return to my investors quickly. Two-year period, you know, 30% of their money back through a refi or something like that. That certainly is attractive. So, we'll, I think I kind of focused on IRR when I'm making the decisions on which deal, I want to buy, which deal I don't. And we've been, we like [inaudible39:54], we've been focused many deals about loan assumptions recently trying to get a lower basis. So, the first and foremost I'm focused on basis, making sure I buy a deal that's a relative value to everything else is trading right now. And I, cause I was only two things. You can't change on a property; you can't change your purchase price and you can't change location of it. Everything else you can kind of modify can always refinance it. I can always improve the property, but I can't change what price I paid or where it's located. So, we'll locate a deal with good prices, and I think everything else will kind of generally work itself out. James: Got It. And got it. How do you make decent between buy and hold for long term vs. buy and buy and refi? How do you decide? Michael: Yes, so if it's a syndicated deal, we've done a couple deals, especially when it first started out doing dentures where it's like what equity partner in us. Those deals we tend to hold longer. We bought a bunch of workforces, we sold them, we exchange, like A-minus or a product. So, we did a bunch of that. And then when it's a syndication people for like forever is not a good whole period if you're in syndication. Because people want, return on their money as well as return of their money and kind of the intermediate term. So, we're typically performing a five-year hold period. I think you'd be going much past seven. Most people kind of like, you know, shoot, I don't want to tie my money up for 10 years or 20 years. Now I kind of want to get my, I kind of want to see a return of my money as well as the return on my money. So, it kind of depends on the thing, but that's a heck of a lot of work buying and selling these things. So, it was just a lot easier just to kind of hold and it's kind of operate, especially the way we're set up with a third-party management company that does all day today. I, managing a bunch of thousands of apartment units. It's kind of like adult daycare. James: Yes, it's adult daycare, it's a good one to see. Michael: It's property management as a business of problems. I mean, there's always a problem, like every day, always, problems everywhere. So, if you have third-party management to kind of oversee that and we're set up and I have an asset manager that layered in between me and them. As a principal, the way we're set up, it's really not that bad on the day today. So, what we've been kind of focusing on is we're just selling the older stuff and buying newer, nicer stuff. Cause there's old stuff, I mean, not only, it was great, and we made a bunch of money, but you have asphalt parking lots and casts on sewers and t one 11 siding, Hardie. You go renovate a deal and two or three years later you've got to renovate the deal because the parking lot needs to be redone and you painted over wood. So, then you've got to have more wood of what, right? You got to go paint over again. And you can't cast, our sewers are collapsed in every time you turn around and get, dig it up and replaced sexting sewer pipe. So, you have all these like nonrecurring items that recurrent all the time. So, doesn't impact in a live per se, but it impacts your actual cash and the bottom line? So, I'm so I think the actual net cash you can pay out, it's not that different on a higher cap rate, older deal versus, or maybe a little bit lower cap rate, better quality deal if you're going to be in these deals for a long period of time. So, we've been just trying to get younger in our portfolio, so stuff I owned a day, I'd be much more likely to want to hold than the stuff I owned in 2014, 2013 cause those were just tougher, older, older deals. And I think that's what I've seen been kind of like the natural progression of most people that do what I do for a living. Just over time. One of the things, one of my mentors told me once when I first got in the business was, you own apartments in dog years, and every year of ownership feels like seven. So, like over time, you know that statement is very, very true. The older the property and the smaller the property, the more true that statement is. The bigger, nicer. It's just easy, just easier. So, I don't know if I answered your question,-- James: [inaudible43:42]. Michael: --but those are the-- between owning or selling a deal. James: Absolutely. Absolutely. And-- so let's go back to a bit more personal stuff, right? So, can you name like three things that you think is your secret sauce in, scaling up to this level? Michael: Yes, so, first and foremost, I mean I'm pretty tenacious and I had a lot of ambition, so, that was, that was a lot of it, right? I was like, I was willing to do what it takes to get to where I got. So, we had a lot of experience, background, and training and that certainly, so first and foremost, I just really, really, really wanted it. And like last weekend I flew to Jacksonville, not check, yes, Jacksonville, Florida, I'm sorry. Losing track of where I was. So, I was in Jacksonville for 21 hours. I spoke in front of 300 potential investors. I flew back home. I did that Saturday morning, came back Sunday morning and three weeks earlier I was in Newark, New Jersey, went to some hotel conference room on a Saturday, came back on Sunday. So, I'm willing to sacrifice a good chunk of my weekend to go out and get in front of investors so I can then do these larger deals. So, if you're not willing to put in the work and do what it takes and you're only, you're going to get a moderate your success for sure. Second thing was, I had a great background being a banker for over a decade and I just did deal after deal after deal. So, I've got a great education on my, on the bank Stein. So, most people don't have that. Cause then they're not bankers. Right. But, go get educated. That's the other thing I would, I would say get educated, higher from a reputable mentor. There's a lot of people out there put the time in. Become a student of your craft, go listen to this podcast, or listen to our podcasts, read books, do stuff like that. That’s a great way of learning. These podcasts are great. Like we host the Dole Capitol podcasts or your podcast. You're going to sit here and talk to me. So, it looks like about at least 45 minutes here- James: Yes. Michael: --at this point. And you get to your conversation from two guys that own almost 10,000 units collectively for 45 minutes for free. And there's a lot of wisdom and nuggets, but I think hopefully you can take out of that. Um, so, my background, my education was certainly it. And then really just a lot of its just relationships. You know what I mean? A lot of this is as simple as just don't be a jerk. That's, that's a lot of it, right? So, the brokers want to do business with people they know, like, and trust. They want you to be honest with them. They want you to be, do what you say you're going to do. And if you could just do that and be in a good guy and be friendly with them, man that goes a long way. It really does. So those are, those are three things I've done pretty well in this business. James: Got it, got it. And why do you do, what you do, I mean, where are you? Michael: I understood back, couple of things, right? To have a better life to be able to, the monetary if you'd have done well, the very rewarding monetarily. I sit back, so I got a couple of things happen, reflecting back on this, cause you know, we've done a lot in a short period of time. When I was 2010, so my mother passed away in 2010. So, I was like 32, I'm 32, 31, something like that at the time. And, so she was like 57 when at the time she passed away and then she-- her and my father sacrificed to save all their life to then be able to retire one day and then go have all those great traveling adventures in the sunlight and do stuff that was great in life and she didn't get to do that. She works to sacrificed and saved and I never got to-- the fruits of it. So, I kind of, that was a thing that kind of burned into my mind that I need to be able to do something young, unable to take a risk young. So, then I can then enjoy a lot of stuff in life. So shortly after, that's when I really first started was in 2011. I bought a bunch of rent houses in 2011. I [inaudible 47:28] my mom passed away and that's kind of really when I started like taking risks and doing stuff because being a banker, you're just naturally conservative. You're not really wanting to go take risks. But I started small and kind of got some confidence and then a transition in the multifamily. So that was one thing. And then, and then when I was about 34, 35, I was sitting at the bank and I worked for a large, large national bank and then, I was really successful, and they're kept trying to promote me. And, when I was looking at the bank and I looked at my boss and my boss's boss and his boss and thinking about what they do all day, it was kind of depressing, to be honest with you. Like I didn't want to do that. And I felt like a, it is a metaphorical thing, but it felt like a little fork in the road. Like I'm 34, 35 and if I don't go out and take a chance like right now, and I wait one more year, every year is, we made a little bit harder to go out and take this risk. But if I like go out right now, I saw the market, the market was right. Capital was blowing and the deals are so good. And I knew that because I was in the industry. So, I was like, if I go out and I fail I can always come back and be a banker because I was a really good banker and I can, y'all are going to need to be a banker. But if I go out and I succeed, then I can have a great life and get to go to Hawaii for three weeks. Like I'm going to this summer, I'm just going to pick up the family in Hawaii for three weeks. I'm just going to work from Hawaii for three weeks to sort of be in a hundred degrees in Dallas. Right. So that's what you, that's what I get to do today. And I get to pay for my sister and her family to go to Hawaii because we've taken the risk and been successful and those are-- that's kind of, I guess some of my whys right there. James: Yes. It's, it's interesting on how you're tenacious. I mean, whether its real estate or anything. And you can do this in anything, right to, you just have to be-- Michael: Yes. James: --persistent in doing it and know your why and just push it. And I can change your life. Right? So. Michael: In every transaction, there's always a problem, right. James: Yes. Michael: So that's the thing too. And that's what I always fall back on. Like there's always a problem. There's always stress, there's always, whatever. And you just got to like push through who's going to put your head down. You just got to push through. Just kind of will it, so do what you needed to do, you know? And not that every time I feel frustrated and you were not getting a deal, right? Like I've gone months and months on a deal, I just do more. Like, you know, I make more calls, I go do this, I'm proactive. I'm just like more always answer. So, we don't get what you want to do. More effort, not, that's usually, usually tends to work out pretty good for me. James: Good. Good. We're coming to the end. One more question. Do you have any like a daily habit or daily ritual that you do that contributes to your success or effectiveness in life? Michael: I'm not the most, I don't really read a lot of books. I don't really meditate on do any of that. So, what-- I, I do find myself from time to time, I'll go down the rabbit hole of doing something and like burn off 30 minutes by all my life around the internet or something like that in the middle of the day. And I always try to catch myself and say, okay, like I just need to prioritize. So, I have a hundred things to do every single day and I need to ensure I know what the most impactful thing is. And I focus my time on that. Cause, sometimes you let the tyranny of the urgent get in the way of the important. So just cause I have 40 emails on red, I need to go clear. It doesn't mean that's the most important thing for me to do right then. Even though that's like dinging on my screen in front of me. Sometimes I'll try to shut that out, focus on what are, what is the most important thing. And then I know when I, I'll schedule time to come back and clear my emails out an hour later down the road when I kind of get done the most important thing. Because, if you're in a Sproul, I'll leave you with, it's kind of, there's this whole thing that I've, I've definitely learned in this business, as a syndicator, as someone that does, find that puts together an apartment operators, apartment investment opportunities or any sort of opportunity like that. The best way you make, the way you make money in this business, you've got to find deals and find money. Going to find deals and find money and everything else is sort of noise. It’s all really important. You got to operate; you've got to do all their things right. But, that doesn't really, that's not driving revenue. So, if you want to focus on revenue, you've got to find deals or find money. So, I'm not talking to brokers, I'm not talking to my investors, you know, everything else is, not driving revenue. So, at the end of the day, I always try to remember that when I'm deciding, what do I spend my time on. Do I spend my time on this or that, that's always in the back of my mind? James: Got it. Got it. Is there anything else that you want to share in this podcast that you have not shared in hundreds of other podcasts that you have been? I should have [inaudible51:57]. Michael: I, I think, we do a pretty good job. So, I would, if you want to know more about me, I think really there's a couple of ways you can, the easiest way to find me, just get my company's website, which is a company spiadvisory, just go to our website www.spiadvisory.com. It's spi like spy advisory dot com. There's a contact us form, fill that out. I always happen to have in 10 or 15 minutes. A telephone call, listeners of the podcast. You guys are interested in maybe working with us or really the best way if you want to know more about me or if you listen to this podcast or [inaudible] or. So, you can listen to a dual capital podcast. So that's on iTunes or Stitcher or YouTube or anywhere you're probably listening to me right now. You can find the old capital real estate investing podcast. So, we have probably 300 episodes in the archive or more at this point. So, we do interviews with other people kind of similar to this format. As well as we do a little short one where my partner Paul interviews me and asked me one question a week and I answered about one specific topic. So, if you want to know anything about and just all-around apartment investing in your or some form or fashion. So you want to learn more about me, that's a good way to kind of-- I talk, I have a lot of stuff recorded that's out there that, but if you like this, you may, you may like that and hopefully can provide some, a little nub. It nuggets on different little talk topics, to listen to those. James: Yes. Yes. I learned a lot from you. I mean, listening to you from different, different podcasts throughout my apartment investing journey. So, I'm thankful for that. And I think that's it. Hopefully, all the audience and listeners got the value that they want to get or getting from Michael and myself. I think that's it. Thank you. Michael: All right. Thank you.  

Could you be supervising your kids too much? Safety is important, but that doesn’t have to translate watching your child’s every move. Annie, Lauren and Jen are joined by parenting expert Allana Robinson to discuss outdoor unsupervised play, fostering independence and life skills and finding more balance as a parent.   What you’ll hear in this episode: Societal pressures around supervision and engagement of parents with their kids The amount of time working moms spend with their kids vs stay at home moms in the 50s What science says about enrichment and play Motor skill development and play How motor skill development affects reading ability Facilitating outdoor unsupervised play through relationship building in your neighborhood The value of small risks in learning to prevent injuries How children's’ injuries have changed with the introduction of “safer” equipment How to introduce unsupervised outdoor play in an age-appropriate way Boundaries and consequences - how to use them Helping kids learn to entertain themselves Judgement and the mom on the phone in the park What happens when you interrupt or correct play Isolation and the need for community of parents and of kids Zooming out from our kids’ behavior and learning to see it in context   Resources: Uncommon Sense Parenting Facebook Page Allana’s Facebook Group Ping GPS The Gift of Imperfect Parenting Your Kids Need to Play Outside Without You podcast episode (Allana Robinson) Marian Diamond Rat Enrichment Study No Child Left Alone study Learn more about Balance365 Life here Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or Android so you never miss a new episode! Visit us on Facebook| Follow us on Instagram| Check us out on Pinterest Join our free Facebook group with over 40k women just like you! Did you enjoy the podcast? Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Google Play! It helps us get in front of new listeners so we can keep making great content. Transcript Annie: Welcome to Balance 365 life radio, a podcast that delivers honest conversations about food, fitness, weight and wellness. I'm your host Annie Brees along with Jennifer Campbell and Lauren Koski. We are personal trainers, nutritionists and founders of Balance365. Together we coach thousands of women each day and are on a mission to help them feel healthy, happy, and confident in their bodies on their own terms. Join us here every week as we discuss hot topics pertaining to our physical, mental and emotional wellbeing with amazing guests. Enjoy. We live in a culture where parents are expected to be with or entertain their kids all the time, but we also have other responsibilities inside the house that need taking care of too, and as a result, our kiddos' outdoor playtime often gets cut short, but today's guest has solutions. She understands the importance of outdoor play for kids and wait for it, she encourages unsupervised outdoor time. Yeah, you heard me right. Alanna Robinson is an early childhood educator and parenting coach for parents of toddlers and preschoolers. She helps parents understand why their children are misbehaving and what to do about it without yelling, shaming, or using timeouts. On today's episode, Alanna, Jen, Lauren and I discuss why your kids need to play outside without you and how to begin implementing that today so your kids can play outside and you can tackle your to do list inside or you can always just relax too. But before we dive in, it's important to note that we have a diverse audience, and even though we don't have immediate solutions for everyone, we want to acknowledge that inequalities do exist and people with different socioeconomic and racial backgrounds may have a different experience with outdoor play. But as always, we don't want anyone to feel left out of this conversation. And if you want to discuss any of these topics further, we invite you to join our free private Facebook group. Healthy Habits Happy Moms. Enjoy. Lauren and Jen, welcome to the show. We have a special guest. Lauren, are you so excited? Lauren: I am so pumped. I'm so excited to learn all the things. Annie: I know. Jen, I know you're excited cause this was a guest you found and you brought and you were like, "She needs to be on the show." Jen: Yeah, I'm part of Allana's, I'm in her parenting posse Facebook group. Actually, Allana, I found out about your Facebook group in our Facebook group. Allana: Oh yeah? Jen: You were, or did someone just recommend your Facebook group to me in our Facebook group to me in our Facebook group. So group to group. So I joined yours and you have said some things that have been so profound and have changed the way I parent and discipline, which is amazing. Allana: That makes me so happy. Jen: And even though you specialize in one to six year olds, I have, well, I've been in your group for quite a while, but my boys are transitioning out of those ages. So I have a five, seven and nine year old. I find your advice still works for my seven and nine year old. And so you just scale it to their level and yeah, it works. It's amazing. And it's taken so much stress out of parenting, right? Especially with discipline because you're always like, "Is this enough? Did he learn his lesson?" Annie: So in other words, welcome to the show, Allana. How are you? Allana: Thank you so much for having me. I'm great. Annie: Good. Allana: Making me so extremely happy because you never know if what you're putting out into the world is actually landing with people and it's just, it makes me so happy to hear when it does. Jen: I don't, I just read along. So I would say I'm a lurker in your group. I've posted once, but I read. And so it's actually a good reminder for me that in even our Facebook group, I'm sure there's tons of lurkers, so nothing you say is ever really wasted. And so I read whatever you write. So whatever you're doing in that group, I'm a step behind. Annie: And then she comes to me and she's like, "Hey, you need to check her out." And then I went to your website and listen to one of your podcasts. And it was about why your kids need to play outside without you. And I was like, "Freedom!" It was amazing. Jen: That was a huge moment for me and you're so open about your own parenting practices and you're not just telling people, "Hey, here's what to do." You're like, "Here's what what you should do. And I'm doing it. And this is what happens in our day to day life." And can I say the comment that blew my mind? It was just from a couple of weeks ago. Can I say that? Am I allowed? You told everybody, someone asked when they can let their toddler play in their backyard unattended. And then all these women were giving advice, right. And it was this huge thing and all of a sudden you swooped in and you said your youngest or you start them out one and a half years old playing independently outside by themselves at one and a half. And your son has been walking down the street to the park from four years old. Allana: Yup. Jen: On his own. And I was like, "Wow." And you said the world is safer today than it's ever been. There's this perception that it's more dangerous and we actually have more things in place to keep our kids safe even though it's safer. But that's killing us as parents. And actually what it's leading to is a lot more indoor time and screen time for kids because it's actually not realistic or sustainable to expect parents to be playing or even supervising their kids 24 seven and so kids aren't even getting the minimum amount of movement that they should be just because it's actually become impossible for families to provide that. Allana: It's an impossible standard. There's also a study that was done not that long ago about the difference in the amount of time working mothers today spend with their children versus stay at home mothers that spent with their children in the 1950s. Working mothers today spend more time on average with their children than stay at home mothers did in the 1950s so this concept that we have to constantly be in their face, we have to constantly be engaged with them. We have to constantly be enriching them. Jen: Right. Allana: Putting this impossible, impossible load on us. And you know where that came from? It came from another study. There was a woman named Marian Diamond who was in the 1960s, she was doing research on rats and how big their brains got when they played versus rats who weren't given the opportunity to play. Allana: And she was a woman scientist in the 1960s and she was playing with rats. So she got ridiculed socially by her male colleagues for being the girl who plays with rats. And in order to try and make her study, her papers more serious, have a bit more aplomb, she removed the word play and she changed it to enrichment. And nobody knows this woman. Nobody has ever heard of these studies before, but they have just trickled through our societal psyche to the point where we believe that we always have to be engaged with our kids or they're going to be stupid. And what that study should have said is the more time the children play, the smarter they get, the bigger their brains get. And that tiny little change in the way that we communicated that idea has had such a prolific impact on North American society. And now we're at the point where it's breaking us to meet those expectations. And we're so terrified that if we don't, that our kids are going to be stupid. And it's, yeah. So this fear that everybody has, and it's a deep seated subconscious fear that we have to be with them all the time or they're going to be taken or stupid. And it's just, it's not sustainable. You can't do it. Jen: Can I just, I'll just add another fear. That they're going to get hurt and someone's going to call child and family services on me and my kids are gonna get taken away because I wasn't there when they fell off their bike, broke an arm. Like, you know, it's just, I'm afraid of what my neighbours are gonna think of me. Not so much anymore because my kids are a bit older. But when my kids were younger, it was, we lived near a park, I wouldn't dare have sent, you know, in my head I'm like, "I'm sure they'll be fine." My Dad used to do some very questionable, like, I mean over the line questionable things. So you know I'd always have my dad be like telling me "It's fine!" Just, but you know, you, you actually worry about your neighbors. And actually I've been on social media for several years now and shared a lot of our family during that time. I think I started after my third was born and I have had many people message me and threatened they're going to call family services on me, like awful telling me I'm an awful mother. Like, if I'm trying to share like our mom life moments, you know, like, there's accidents- Allana: That hasn't happened to me yet quite frankly, because as you said, I'm very open about what I allow my kids to do. And there's more studies. There was this study that was done in 2016 about, it's actually called No Child Left Alone. And it was a study that was done by a small group of researchers and they basically asked a large, large group of people, they gave them scenarios in which a child was left alone and every single scenario was exactly the same except for the reason why the child was left alone. So they varied the reason, like, you know, mom went to go see her lover versus, you know, mom had an emergency at work and couldn't find a babysitter. And what they found was that people assessed a higher risk to the child based on what they morally felt the reason was for leaving the child, even though all the factors were exactly the same. And so what that means is that people don't just think things are dangerous and therefore, and moral, they think things are immoral and therefore dangerous. So, and when I say to people like "I let my five year old walk to the park," they're like, "Aren't you afraid CPS is going to get called on you? Aren't you afraid that somebody?" And I'm not because I know my neighbors. And that is how we combat that, because it's a lot easier to judge somebody on their morality when you don't know them, when you can't put a face to them, when you've never spoken to them. So, and it's awkward, super awkward. But when we moved here when my son was a year and a half old. And so he was just starting outdoor play and he was, he's tiny for his age, like he looks much younger than he is. And so I actually took his hand and we went around and we walked up and down our street and we knocked on everybody's door and we introduced ourselves. And I said, you know, "My name's Allana. This is my son Logan. You might see Logan around, he likes to play outside by himself. I'm okay with that." And people were kind of like, "Okay." And it was, it was awkward as hell. And you know, we have a bit more in depth conversations with our immediate neighbours who can actually see into our yard. But so no, nobody ever, I gave my phone number to everybody and said, "Hey, if you ever see him doing something questionable that you're not sure it's safe or appropriate, please send me a text message. Like I am always, I will deal with it." And what that people call CAS because they see a child doing something that they're not sure is totally on the up and up and they don't have a touch point. They don't have anybody to go to other than the police. So if you go to your neighbors and you say, "Hey, this is who I am, this is my child, this is my phone number, please call me if you know you ever need anything," it removes that ability to have such a quick moral judgment on you because they seen your face. They've spoken to you, they've had a conversation with you and that I think because we don't know our neighbors, in this day and age we move around a lot more. We live in much larger communities. Houses are much closer together. We don't, we don't know our neighbors the way that our parents did or grandparents did. So it takes a conscious effort on our part if we're going to be sending our kids out into the world by themselves that we know we've scoped out the world for them, right? Jen: Yeah. Go ahead, Allana. Allana: Oh, I was just going to say it like, he has, he's walked to the park before and I've had neighbors text me and be like, "Hey, so your kids at the park by himself?" And I'm like, "Yup." And they're like, "Oh, you're okay with that?" "Yup. Thanks for letting me know though." And they're like, "Okay, great." And that was the end of it. And they know him, he knows his boundaries, like, and there's a certain amount of teaching to this. You don't just send your kid out the door and be like, "Off you go." There's a lot of very conscious teaching that has to happen in, right. Annie: Allana, I would love to get into, like, how do you actually implement it in a little bit? Because I know like you can't just take a kid that, like, hasn't had any unsupervised play and be like, "Okay, see ya. Have fun." But I want to back up because you have quite a bit of information about, like, the benefits. Like why does this matter to the kids and why does this matter to parents? Allana: Well, because the outdoors is basically, like, nature's occupational therapy, right? Like the rate of children in occupational therapy has soared since the 1990s and it's because the kids aren't getting outside. When you go outside, first of all, the environment is perfectly sensorially balanced. It's made for us. It's not too loud. It's not too quiet. Depending on where you live is not too hot or too cold. But you can adjust it, you know, generally it's not too bright. There's, you know, very subtle sounds that help you orient yourself in space. Like just the sounds of birds tweeting and leaves rustling helps your brain figure out where you are in space. It has, there's so many sensory experiences, mud, grass, air, everything is a sensory. The heat from the sun even is a sensory experience that helps your brain integrate the input that it gets both indoors and out. It's not controlled and there's things that you have to adapt for which you wouldn't have to adapt for inside because everything is so controlled inside. So our kids aren't getting that stimulus that hopefully we got that our parents definitely got outdoors and the result is that there's a lot of kids in schools right now who have vestibular problems and it's affecting their ability to read. It's affecting their ability to sit down and concentrate. Spinning, spinning has been shown, if you spin for five minutes, it's been shown to increase your attention span for two hours. They've removed every single merry go round. Every single spinning toy. Kids aren't allowed to spin on swings anymore because it's "dangerous." They've shortened the height of swing sets. If you look at pictures of swing sets from like the 1960s, the set itself is super, super tall and the chains are super, super long, which means they got a lot larger range of motion. When everything got scaled down and we got super safety conscious. We literally scaled down the swing sets. The chains are much shorter. They're not getting as large a range of motion. They're not getting as much stimulation. So it's vital not just to, you know, their ability to entertain themselves. It's vital to their long term learning. If you don't have a body that can integrate all the information that you're getting, then it's going to crop up down the road in lots of different ways. Jen: Wow. You know what? We moved from Vancouver, a huge city in Canada to a very small city, in the interior British Columbia, 90,000 people. And then within that community we live in like this tiny little suburb that backs on to, like a provincial park. So just hiking trails and stuff. My children's life has changed. Being so close to nature and having other children on the block, like our doorbell is ringing constantly. These kids are outside all the time, way more than when we lived in Vancouver. When we were in Vancouver I felt like I had to facilitate everything because you're in this big city you like, it's just, yeah, it was, there was just, it was very, and it was very stressful and I don't even think I realized how stressed I was until I wasn't living there anymore. And I have so much more freedom. I, you know, we even live close enough to the school that, like, boys can walk to school and walk home. And then just my free time has gone way up. Like as far as, and the load of parenting has gone way down for me living in this neighborhood and in this smaller city and I just can't believe how the quality of our life has improved. It's crazy. Allana: Totally. And like I have a lot of parents were like, "Listen, I don't have an outdoor space for my kids. Like we live in an apartment building and I can't let them go downstairs and play in even in the public green space by themselves because there's, you know, 60 back balconies that face onto it and somebody is going to take issue with it" and I always say "Some is better than none." Jen: Yes. Allana: Taking your kids to a park and take them to a park where there's no equipment. Right. Don't take them to a park where there's all these plastic climbers and stuff. Take them to a park where there's no equipment, provincial park, national park somewhere that it's more of a natural space and let them play there rather than let them climb the trees, let them walk on the logs, let them go, you know, dig in the ravines and the ditches. That's much more high quality play than the kind of contrived play that happens on swing sets and stuff like that. Jen: Yeah, they, when my kids were young, we lived in New Zealand and they are extremely progressive as far as play there. And this is kind of when all this started coming to me, because I had never heard this kind of talk in Canada and they talked a lot about the benefits of decreasing supervision and increasing risk on playgrounds because for example, our school, our playground no longer meets safety codes anymore. And so our school is paying $100,000 this spring that we all had to fundraise for to put in a new, new safe playground. And I'm kind of sitting back while everyone's very excited, great, but I'm sitting back going like, this is a hundred grand on a new safe structure that- Allana: Is going to do them a disservice. Jen: Right? And so - Allana: Yeah, I know the feeling. My son's play, my son's school, he's in junior kindergarten here in Ontario and they don't even have a playground. They don't have any, like they have a fenced in yard and there's a play structure for the kids who are in grade four and up. But anybody under that isn't allowed to use it. And we're moving schools next year. And his first question was, is there going to be something that I can climb on Jen: Right. Allana: Yeah, dude, that's like one of my top priorities. Jen: Yeah. I see just as many kids in the field next to the school. It's all fenced and stuff than I do on the playgrounds. Right. So it's and then tell me this, I don't know if this evidence based or not, but I often wonder what happens on playgrounds when the kids are bored and there's no risk anymore. Like do they turn? Like is that why they're turning on each other at recess? Allana: When there's nothing to do, you're going to create something to do. And so the nice thing like, and people will often say to me like, "How do your kids play outside for hours on end? There's nothing in your backyard." And there isn't. We literally have a yard and a shed and, but there are things in my backyard. We have lots of loose parts. We have, when my husband built that shed, he took all the off cuts and just kind of sanded down the edges generally so that he wasn't getting any splinters. And so there's, there's a ton of lumber back there. There is sticks, there's mud, there's a sand pit, we have a water table that kind of turns into a pond during the summer because nobody cleans it out. It gets very disgusting but so they have all that stuff out there and they'll take like, you know, an action figure or a car or something, one little thing and they'll build this whole playscape off of it just because toys are built with a very specific purpose in mind and kids know that they're supposed to use them that way, right? You're supposed to use a tool the way the tool is supposed to be used. We're very, very clear about that with young children. So when you give them a toy and it's only able to be used one way, they're going to get bored with it really, really quickly. And then when there's nothing to do, they're going to start disturbing. Jen: Bleeping the child psychologist. Allana: I always have an explicit warning on my own podcast because when I get passionate I run my mouth. But yeah. So, but if you don't give them those things that are closed ended to begin with, if you give them open ended stuff and you expect them to create their own world, they'll do it and it will be so immersive for them that they won't have time to make, you know, trouble. They're going to be so engaged in it.   And that's the other thing is toys generally can only be used by one or two people versus open ended materials. "Okay, you want to come play with me? Great. Go grab a stick. Right?" So that's, it's a lot easier for children to join play when there isn't set materials for them to use, when everything's very open ended because they can modify what they're doing to include more people very easily.   And to come back to kind of what you were saying about the play structure, that's another problem, right? There's usually limits on how many kids can be on the play structure, especially in school environments where they're like, you know, there can only be five kids on the play structure at a time that just hamstrings them. It cuts them off at the knees and when there's children, you know, want to come in, they can't. So keeping things and it's just really, the science across the board just says "Back off! Back off and they'll figure it out. That's what their brains are designed to do." Jen: Right. And that's really what builds a resilient person. Right? They can figure it out in a moment. Right. The other thing that had been talked about in New Zealand I remember is as playgrounds were becoming more safe, they were not just less risky as in, "Ooh, am I going to fall? Or it was also, they were less physically risky in that it didn't require as much strength to go over these different spots in the park. So the upper body strength in children is coming down big time because they are taking out monkey bars. They're taking, you know, they're taking out all these upper body things." Allana: Exactly. Because you've got children in occupational therapy to build that up because they're not naturally getting it, they're not weight bearing. I have so many clients who their child is in kindergarten and first of all they're asking these kindergarten kids to read and write when that's not developmentally appropriate, but they also can't physically do it because they don't have the strength in their muscles to do it. Like fine motor skills starting in your shoulder and they work their way down. Jen: Right. Right. Allana: If you don't use your gross motor skills. You can't use your fine motor skills when you need to. So yeah. And the other thing about reducing risk is that they're reducing small injuries, but the injuries that do happen are much larger. Children are breaking bones more frequently. They're, you know, having huge concussions when they do, because their vestibular system is so underdeveloped, they don't know the limits of their body. And so when they go to try and do something new, they can't tell if they can actually do it or not. Jen: Right. Because they've had no lower level risk that warns them Allana: They weren't able to build up to it. Jen: Amen. Yeah. Allana: We've reduced, you know, cuts, scrapes, minor stitches and we've turned that into breaks and concussions and it's, ask any occupational therapist and they'll tell you that a lot of these things are very easily solved just by sending them outside to play. Jen: Right. That's so interesting to just reframing it, right? These things are good. Like this is good for your kids to make these mistakes, have these small falls. None of them are life threatening, but they're teaching them about their environment and saving them from future. An analogy to that, actually, I posted a insta story a year ago with my oldest son on a little mini quad at his grandparents' farm and he was doing donuts and it was all dusty and I got so many from women that were like, "I would never let my child do that." And he had an accident that summer. He bumped into the side of his uncle's truck and he flew and hit his chest on the handlebars and it really hurt him and it really scared him. I mean, he's wearing a helmet and we've got that safety stuff. And I was like, "Good." I could see the donuts were getting a little out of control. I could see that kid needed some kind of little bump to remind him that he is on a machine and it happened and it was good. And he is much more safe now. And I guess, I guess what, and also my dad's a farmer, so I grew up in, you know, "dangerous" environment of, like, just roaming around a farm and yeah. And it's like, I see now how good that is, but you know, and I moved to the city and I think of all these city kids getting licenses at 16 and like, you know, we're a little, when you grew up on a farm, you're just driving, you drive, right? Like you drive when your dad's lap or you, you're helping, you know, you're way too young. You're 12 years old and you're helping move trucks from one field to another. And then I think of all these city kids getting their licenses and it's like that's crazy that they have no driving experience. And you know what I mean? So it's like- Allana: I was reading something the other day about how it's taking longer. Like when I turned 16 almost all my friends got their license on the first try. And apparently there's some statistics now coming out that it's taking teenagers longer to learn to drive because they're having to develop vestibular and proprioceptive skills that they didn't as a child. And so they're not able to judge where their car is in space. Jen: Oh gosh, that's so interesting. Allana: So yeah, it's, this isn't just about mom getting some breathing time of being able to clean the kitchen without anybody crawling up their back and about the kids being able to entertain themselves. These skills that they develop, that looks like they're doing absolutely nothing are so important. And they will follow them for the rest of their lives. And it's just, it frustrates me so much. Jen: Lauren had a question, I think. Allana: Oh yeah, Lauren, did you have something? Lauren: Yes. Can I, can I? Hello? Annie: Hi. Welcome to the show. Lauren: Hi, I'm over here. I'm trying to get a word in next to Jen. Annie: Good luck. Jen: Classic little little sister moment. Lauren: So I love all of this. Can I ask some practical questions selfishly that hopefully will benefit all of our listeners? I have a five year old and a one year old and I'm wondering like, okay, my one and a half year old obviously is probably going to have different boundaries than a five year old, but the five year old, I mean, I let her play outside sometimes, but I'm usually watching her through like the window and whatever. Like so what are, how do I introduce this concept to both of them in age appropriate ways? Allana: So the five year old, as you said, it's going to have a much longer leash than the one and a half year old. If you have fenced space, it's, that's easiest because it's easiest for us to back off. But generally what I do with little kids is I start by being outside with them but not being engaged with them. So like blowing snow in the driveway. They can't participate in that, but they can be outside while we're doing it, weeding the garden, they might join in but they're going to get bored and they're going to go do something else. Doing things that need to be done anyways, but, and that we're around, but we're not focused on them. We're focused on something else. So that's like step one is generally just getting them used to the idea that you're not going to be watching them all the time. And then step two of that is starting that way and then being like, okay, I'm going to go in and go to the bathroom. I'm going to go in and make dinner. And just gradually lengthening the amount of time that you go in at the end of your play time so that they're not going from "I'm inside and supervised, to I'm outside and not supervised." There's a buildup to that and it's amazing how, like, children are very intuitive. So if we have concerns, if we're scared of them doing something, they're going to pick up on that very quickly. Their limbic system is very connected to ours and our inter brain is going to go, "You're not safe!" And so they're not going to feel safe. So it's a workup for us too, right? We need to feel confident and comfortable leaving our kids alone. So those are steps one and two generally for me is just being outside, not engaged with them but being outside with them. And then at the end of that starting to introduce, I can go inside and you don't have to come with me. And once you kind of work up to a good chunk of time, then you can start sending them out by themselves and lengthening that amount of time so that you're like, "Okay, well, you go out and I'll meet you there. Like I'm just going to go and put this in the oven and then I'll be outside." And starting to get them used to going outside without you following behind them. And then you can go out again, do something else, not be engaged with them, but be around and then go back inside. So you're kind of working it from either end rather than just sending them out on their own. And that's generally a nice good workup for kids. They don't feel scared because they know you're coming, you know that you're not having to like peek through the window to keep an eye on them either because they can sense that too. Windows don't block limbic resonance. Lauren: Do you have tips if your yard is not fenced in, like, do you give them ahead of time, like, boundaries? Allana: Absolutely. So my favorite tool for this is go to Home Depot or Lowe's and grab some of that neon paint that they mark gas lines with when you call and be like, "Hey, I'm going to dig in my yard." And then somebody comes by and like Mark's all your gas lines so you don't hit a gas line when you dig. Go and get that and spray your property line. And I do that every spring with my two, because I have a two and a half year old. And so last year he was a year and a half and he wants to play in the front yard with his big brother, but there's no barrier in the front. So he was getting really angry because my big can let himself in and out of the backyard and the little one can't and he'd be so mad when my big one would leave him in the backyard. So I did. I went and I got the orange paint and I sprayed, just a line right down our ditch and down either side of our front yard. It doesn't look great, but when you mow the grass goes away and he, and I was like, "Listen, you cannot cross the orange line without mummy or daddy." And we walked the orange line and I showed him, "Yes, no, you cannot go on this other side." And it did. We had to work up to it Again, starting with me being outside with them and keeping an eye on them, but not engaged with them, reminding him that he can't cross that line and just very gradually backing away from him and letting him have more ownership over that. Now we can go just about anywhere. Like we have a cottage with a waterfront that we go to in the summer and now I can like walk up and like spray that line along the waterfront and I'm like, you can't cross the dark line- Jen: Take it to your hotel. Annie: The restaurant. Jen: The restaurant play here, don't worry, you can mow it out. Allana: I've done it with orange electric. Try and pick a color and stick to it because kids tend to get that, like, color association. But I've done it with orange electrical tape, like, we were at, actually just this last week, my big one was hospitalized and we were in this waiting room, like, it was like an examination room with the door didn't close. It was kind of like just a triage kind of space. And my little one was kept trying to escape and I busted out my roll of orange electrical tape and put on a hard line on the doorway and I was like, you can't cross the orange line. And he was like, "Okay." Jen: That's so awesome. Annie: it is. Allana: At this point that he's like, "No, we don't cross orange lines," causes problems when they're like, "Here you can go!" Like where were we? We were at Wonderland or something like that last summer and there was, like, a line on the ground to mark where you can't cross to go before you go on a ride. And they were like "Come!" and he was like, "Uh uh, we don't cross orange lines." Annie: So I have a feisty two and a half year old and I'm picturing this like it, like I'm, this is not that I don't believe you, but I mean- Allana: It's not an overnight thing. Annie: Yeah. I'm picturing me, like, getting out, like, rope or a spray can and like her just laughing in my face like, "Yeah, okay, mom. Right." Allana: Right. Well and they do. But that's the thing where you have to very consistently redirect them back to the other side. And- Annie: What have you used as appropriate consequences? Like do you say, like, "Sorry, we can't play outside then if you-" Allana: Yeah, well if you can't, so I often say like "If I can't trust you to stay on this side of the orange line, then we're going to have to go inside. Or if I can't trust you to go stay on this side of the orange line, we're going to have to go in the backyard that's fenced" and, or "if I can't trust you to be playing up" like often when I was starting to do this with him, I would be washing my car because my husband's a car nut and so it makes him very happy when I wash my car frequently. So I was like, all right, this makes him happy. This makes me happy. We're going to wash the car while the kids play in the front yard. And like, I mean it's nice when you have an older child who gets to be the tattle tale, but it was like, "Mom, Owie's going into the road" and I would bring him back. "If you can't stay on this side of the orange line, then you're going to have to come and sit in the car." And he was like, "Uh un." And I was like, "Yeah." And it doesn't take very many times of, like, "Hey," as long as you tell them what is going to happen before it happens. Like you can't spring it on them and be like, "Nope, if can't stay on this side of the orange line I'm going to strap you into your car seat." And then they're like, "Well, I didn't know that was what was on the line." Jen: That's actually, this is another huge takeaway I've gotten from your group is the whole concept of natural consequences, like, life changing. We could do a whole other podcast on it and I'm sure people can find more about it on your podcast. But I, it's just like brought my chill level into a normal range around my kids. And, you know, even, it was in your group, it was something about, it was just like this, right? So it's like you lay out the boundary, you tell them what the consequence is and it's a natural consequence. So it's so it's not like disciplining anymore, right? Allana: Exactly. Annie: It's about getting them to connect to the consequences of their actions. Allana: and kids can tell when we're pulling a power trip, right? Timeouts all that stuff. They know when we're like, "No, I'm just doing this because I can." And so, like, things with, "Okay, if you can't stay on this side of the orange line," the best logical consequence for that would be, "Okay, well then you need to go into the gated area." Like that's, he doesn't want that because he knows his big brother's not in the gated area. He knows that, you know, he wants to be in the front with us. And so that creates a consciousness in him that he's like, "Okay, I need to think critically about this. I'm not going to," and they will test. Kids are scientists. They use the scientific method with much more accuracy than any adult. And they will have a theory and they will test every variable possible, which is why I say, like, try and keep the color consistent because like my son, we were at my mom's once and she didn't have any orange paint, so I busted out some pink. Pink apparently doesn't have the same staying power. It is not an orange line. Jen: Oh my kids would do that. Allana: Because right. Anytime you introduce a variable, they have to test it. They have to, they're so inquisitive. They are scientific little minds. So, and that's where you have extinction bursts where they're like, "Okay, this was the limit before and now it's, there's a new limit. How hard do I have to push until we go back to the old limit?" So staying consistent really is the key to the whole but yeah, keeping, I've lost my train of thought now. Jen: You're amazing. Like you, it's like you're in a child's brain and the way you explain things is so fantastic. I can't wait to send everybody to your podcast and you just, and then suddenly my anxiety in parenting is just gone when I listen to you because I know I'm doing the right thing and it will work out. Right. You sometimes feel like you're just trying whatever, just try it, see what works. But I just have this, like, reassurance from you that it's just consistency. Allana: it's so much easier to let go when you know what's going on under the hood and you know how their brains work. And that's, like, my whole philosophy is if you can understand how your child's brain works, then you can work with it instead of against it. And so many of the conventional parenting wisdom is working against their brain. Annie: Right? Right. Jen: Yeah. Allana: Dominant. It's trying to exert dominance. Jen: Then you get struggles and they feel, yeah, it's- Allana: They feel controlled and nobody likes to feel controlled. You push back and they feel like they're being manipulated and treated like subhuman. So when we just treat our kids like we would not how we would treat an adult, but when we are give them that kind of respect, it's amazing how quickly they come onside. It really is. Annie: And I think from like a parenting perspective, hearing you as an expert in this field, pun intended, it's almost permission giving to say like, "It's fine. Go inside, go to the bathroom, put a frozen pizza in the oven. I mean that's what I would do. Like make a phone call, whatever. There'll be okay. And they need it. It's not just for you." It's, like, it just helps me like do this guilt-free. Allana: Totally. And like I've had clients with 11 year olds who will still make their 11 year old come in from the backyard when they need to go pee. Like when you go to the bathroom. Jen: Like that thread in the group before you came in and laid it down with everybody. I was like, "Who are these people?" Like how long are you gonna be like basically- Allana: And the funny thing. It's like my babysitter, my main babysitter is 11 years old. And when I tell people that they're like, "What?" They're like, "But you don't her alone with them." And I'm like, "Oh yes I do. She can." My 11 year old babysitter can feed my children dinner, bath them and get them in bed and an hour and a half flat. I can't do that. Jen: That's the other thing is that eventually we're working up or my son turns 10 this summer and we've kind of given him the, when you are 10 we will start leaving you a home alone. Like if I'm popping out for groceries or whatever. And it's this thing he's looking forward to and that's kind of the law here. Just so everybody knows. I know the law's different in different areas. But that is, we are law abiding citizens anyways. And so if you can't leave your child, like it has to start happening at some point, right? On a gradual basis. You can't be micromanaging your kid. And then he turns 10 or 11 or 12 and then you go, "Okay, we're leaving you alone." Allana: We don't give children any ability to experience minor risk and then they turn 18 and we're like, "Go out and innovate." Jen: Yeah. Go live alone. Annie: This sounds like- Allana: And they're like, "I've never done this in my entire life. You can't start with, like, throwing them out the door. Jen: And then they struggle. Right. And mental health issues in freshmen university students are just skyrocketing. Allana: Of course, living with their parents for longer and longer because they just don't have- Jen: They're not self sufficient. Allana: Yeah, you don't know how to cope without somebody micromanaging you and telling you what to do all the time. And then when people are like, "Make good decisions," you're like, "I don't know what that means." Because you have no. Jen: Yeah. Allana: Litmus test for it. So it's, it really is, you know, when people say early childhood is so important, it is the foundation for your child's entire life. And if you can't start trusting them when they're four with little tiny responsibilities, how are you going to trust them when they're 16, 17- Jen: Right. Yeah. The other thing I learned from you Allana that I wanted to say was about this bored thing. Cause I think that's the next thing, right? So, okay, your kids are playing alone, but they come back and they're like, "I am bored." I learned this from you in your group. You said it is not your job to entertain your child. And I, so that's just what I say to them. Now they come to me and say they're bored. I'm saying "That's not my job to find something for you to do. Like you, go find something to do." Allana: You are not a clown. You are not the family cruise director. Jen: Right. Sometimes I'll say, "Here's your options. You know, you can get out the coloring stuff. You can go out and jump on the trampoline" or I'll give some options to "Go get your bikes, go down to your friend's house, see if he wants to play." But I tell them all the time that "I am not here to entertain you. That is not my job." And that's been such a revolutionary thing for me too, because I, you know, you feel the pressure around that. Allana: Well, exactly. And that comes again to that pressure of they need to be enriched 24 seven if we want them to be smart. And that the only person that's available to enrich them is me so I have to be constantly engaged with my child and it's just not true. In fact, it's damaging. Jen: Right, right. Lauren: So I have my one and a half year old, like, he'll go play by himself, like, no big deal. But my five year old has always been, she wants to play with somebody. Do you have any tips for like training that'd be like you can, like, she'll go play for a little bit but it's, it's just she's completely different than my one and a half year old and she seems to only want to play with me. Jen: Or what about an only child? Like people that have one child? Allana: Only children I find are actually the best at entertaining themselves because they have no expectation. Like, even my older son is super good. He's really good at playing by himself because he had to, he had nobody to play with. My younger one is not so good at playing by himself because he's always had big brother being his cruise director. I actually find only children are usually very good at playing by themselves. It's not usually such an issue with them. There are children who are just, they're extroverted. They take energy from being around other people. Whereas introverts, that's expending energy, right? So it's a difference in what we find stressful. And so for kids then that's typically how I find kids who are extroverts is when they're like, they always want to be with someone. I'm like, "That's because that refills their tank. That's actually calming. Jen: Interesting. Allana: Versus children who are spending energy. So for them it's actually more calming to have people around and to be engaged with people. And these are the people who when they're in their 20s want to live in those houses with like 40 other people and they're like, "This is fun." And you're like, "No, that's stress. Stress." Jen: Annie, sorry. Annie's been waiting. She's got a question. Annie: No, no, no, no. Jen: She'll try to shut us down, I know it. Annie: I'm giggling because I am an only child and like- Jen: Oh right. Annie: But also, but I'm also an extrovert, so I grew up in a house where, and this might've just been a reflection of my mother and father who both worked full time. And I know that they were just tired when they came home from work, but I always got to have friends over. But I grew up, this supports kind of what you're saying. I grew up in a neighborhood where my, you know, I had three or four best friends within a block of, and we would just skip through the yard to get to, cut through yard backyards to go to the other person's house. And it was like, you just come home when the street lights turned on. That was like our guide and I was, you know, that was probably fifth or sixth grade, but that was there, you know, get on your bikes and you just go, you, you, and, and as long as you're home, by the time the street lights come on, like, we're good. Jen: I'm at the point where I'm like, when my kids are hungry, they'll come home. Like I trust. I've come to trust it. And because you're building this relationship, right, you give them more boundaries and more boundaries and then you as a parent, you trust. You know, it's always a little, once you give them a little more, then it's another trust thing. But then, you know, I've built, like, in our neighborhood with my three kids, we just, there's a lot of trust there with my kids now. And maybe I do, maybe I have my kids have more free reign than some of my neighbors, but I have trust there and I know my kids will get hungry eventually and they will come home and we just, it just works. Allana: Totally. And even like people will say to me like, how can you let your five year old go down the street? Aren't you scared he's gonna get hurt and not be able to tell you or you know that somebody's going to snatch him? First of all, my child is usually low jacked with a GPS. So we do live in 2018, these devices exist. Jen: Oh, you actually have a gps on your son? Annie: I actually have a gps on my son. It's the size of about a quarter or a looney. Jen: What do you wear? Can you tell us about that? Where you put it, how you? Allana: Yeah, so it's just I have, you know, those, tags that they put on merchandise in stores so that when you walk out, if you don't pay for it, it'll beep and flash and all that stuff. So those have a pin that need to be removed with a magnet. Right. So I have just a little fabric pouch. GPS goes in the pouch and it gets pinned to his, he's usually wearing cargo shorts. So we put it inside the cargo pocket and we pin it in there so he can't lose it. Nobody can take it off of him unless they removed his pants. And- Jen: And that's connected to your phone? Allana: It's connected to my phone. It doesn't track him. It just tells me where he is, where the gps is in that moment when I go to look at it. So I can tell if he's, and it's accurate to about 20 meters, so I can tell if he's in the general area that I expect him to be in. It also has the ability to send an SOS. So he just pushes on it and it'll alert my phone that he needs help so then I can go find him. Jen: What brand is this? Could you share that with our- Allana: Yeah, it's called a Ping gps. Jen: Wow. I am getting three. Allana: It is awesome. I love it. There are about 80 bucks and then they cost about five bucks a month US to run. But you can't get a cell phone plan- Jen: Look at Lauren writing. Taking notes. Lauren: Ping GPS. Jen: Lauren lives on a beautiful acreage with a huge, that's why she was asking about the fencing and stuff for kids. She always posts on Instagram these beautiful pictures of her back- Lauren: Snow covered. Jen: Yeah, it's November, but it's gorgeous. So, these would be very handy for you, hey, for your- Allana: Yeah. Jen: Country kids. Allana: It also takes off a little bit of that, you know, CAS call pressure- Jen: What if? Allana: Everybody's so scared that somebody is going to go, "You don't know where your kid is" and you're going to go, "You're right. I don't." Whereas if somebody comes to me and says, "You don't know where your kid is," I can go "Actually, he's within 20 meters of-" Jen: Right, right. Allana: The whole like, and even, I was talking about this on my personal Facebook page where I was sharing that No Child Left Alone Study with just with my friends cause somebody had asked about it and my aunt was actually like, well, like she was the perfect example of where you're not judging something based on the actual risk factors. She was "Never be too careful and the world is a dangerous place." And I was like, but it's not based on the statistics, based on the information we have, it's not. Jen: Right. Allana: We were talking about it because as you said, you know, we always give them those incrementally larger responsibilities. My five year old has wanted to walk to the bus by himself in the morning for school, for months now. And the other day he said to me, "Mommy, please, can I have the responsibility to walk to the bus all by myself?" Well, I can see his bus stop from my front window. It's literally two doors down. Our neighbors all know him. My neighbor who lives beside me is on maternity leave so she's watching him out the front door. She's always texting in the morning like "Good morning," I'm being watched. So I know she's watching him too and she's one house closer to him and I was like, I really had no reason to say no to him other than people who don't know you might think you're too stupid because you're too young. That's not a good enough reason for me. So I let them walk to the bus by himself and one of my neighbors took offence and called the bus company and was like, "I don't think this is okay." And they called me and I was like, "That's their problem." Jen: Right? Totally. Good for you girl. Look at you go. Allana: He's, you say, and it's again, we're, I'm pretty sure the directives we get next year are going to be rewritten because their directive saying that children need to be supervised at the bus stop. I'm like, that literally means they need to be watched. And I was watching him. It doesn't say they need chaperones. So we need to start kind of advocating on the competence of our children too because so many people are so quick to say, "Well, they're five, they're stupid" and no, like you know what your child is capable of and even what they're incapable of and nobody knows your kid like you do. So if you genuinely don't feel like your child can handle walking to the park by themselves because they don't have the awareness of people around them. They're not able to walk on the side of the road. Like I didn't just send my five year old to the park, we walked to the park together for many, many times, almost the entire summer. You know, I would send him to the park and I would stand at the end of the driveway and watch him walk to the park and then I would follow him with his brother. And we would do the same in reverse and like, again, you work up to it so you have to know your child's competency level before you, you try and give them a responsibility, right? Annie: I find it really inspiring and encouraging to listen to you Allana. Like just own your choices even with some pushback from spectators or neighbors or family because I would have, I think that that's something that I get a little nervous about too is, like, my kids, my two oldest run the neighborhood and I really don't, like, I trust them. They've haven't violated my trust. Knock on wood, I have no reason to second guess them that they're going to come home and they're going to be where they are and, but I am always like, what do other people think? Do other people, like, know that like they're okay and that we've had these talks and like there's just this fear of judgment or fear of like getting criticized and then they- Jen: They think you're a bad mom. Allana: Or that I'm just lazy. Jen: It comes down to that in so many situations of decisions we're making and Annie and Lauren and I talk about this around nutrition all the time, right? So it's like you're scared. Do they think I'm a bad mom? Like it's just this constant thing. Allana: And it's that moral judgment again, right? Like do they think that I'm being, that they're doing this because I'm lazy? Does that make them think that they're at a greater risk than they actually are? Annie: I just want to sit on my couch sometimes, and like, don't move. Jen: I do.The thing is, and this, I mean you see it too, like, if you want to take your kids to a park and sit on your phone, I'm like, do it. And I see these posts on Facebook. They're like the mom who just sat on her phone or her kids had to play by themselves and the child was shouting, "Mom, watch me." And the mom didn't look up. I'm like, the child will live, like- Allana: Our parents didn't do that for us. Jen: No. And sometimes it's all the mom has in her day to just be chilled out. Like I had three kids in four years and we lived overseas. So no family and in New Zealand, a lovely thing about New Zealand too is that all their playgrounds are gated. So, and you can't get out. So I could literally go in and just sit and just Facebook or read or whatever, just ignore them. And that was the only time I had and I'm all the power to ya, girl if that's what I'm on. If I see a mom with- Allana: On her phone and I got in it last summer with the mom, cause I do the exact same thing. I bring my laptop generally and I will tether to my phone and like work at the park so that my oldest, my youngest kid run around and ours has a fence but it's not a closed off fence. So I mean if they want to, they can escape. I've walked the perimeter with the many times we've talked about what the boundaries are. If my little one, I've showed him there is a gate, it's open, but that means it's a doorway and you need to stay inside the park or we're going to have to go home and he wants to play. And every once in a while I'll just shout out like "Cubs, where are you?" because we call them the bears and they'll go, "Here, here!" And I'll go, "Great!" And I don't even look up as long as I can hear them I know that they're close. And this woman was like, "Excuse me, do you know what your son is doing?" And I looked up and he was climbing and I was like "On the play structure?" And she was like, "Yes." And I was like, "We're at a park." That's what he's supposed to be doing. And she's like, "But you didn't know that you had to look." And I was like, "That's generally how sighted people determine information. Yes." She was so angry because I didn't have my eyes glued to his butt the whole time. Jen: Oh this busy bodyness is just killing us. Annie: Yeah. Allana: Kids don't need us to be in their face 24 seven. They need the space to play. And in fact, if you're playing with your kid and you're not into it, it removes all benefit of play for them. Both, all the people who are playing something need to be in a place state in order for the play to be beneficial. One person or group that isn't enjoying the play removes all the benefits of play for every single person in that group. So if your kid is forcing you to play trucks with them and you're like, "Oh my God, when is it nap time, I don't want to be here." They're not actually getting the benefit of you playing with them. Jen: Yeah, that's so interesting. Allana: So it's better to find something that you actually enjoy doing with your child and do that so that you're both in a play state, it's a frame of mind. It's not an action. Jen: Brene Brown has in her parenting book The Gift of Imperfect Parenting. They sat down as a family and made a list of things that fill everybody's cups and found the common ones and then that's what they focus their family time around now. And I thought, I thought it was such a good idea, right? Like it's mind. So Brenay Brown said it's mind numbing to play board games for herself and so she's just done. She's not doing it anymore. I was like, "Wow, it's so nice to hear someone like you give me permission to not do these things that I don't like doing with my kids. And I don't, I don't do things I don't like with my kids anymore either." Allana: Like I swim with my kids. That's what I enjoy doing. So we go swimming once or twice a week and we get in our mommy and kid time and that's great. Other than that, I'm like, "Please go do something else." And they're like- Jen: Raise yourselves. Allana: "How are you running a business at home? Mostly by yourself. Two little boys at home." And I mean, my oldest is in JK but he only goes three days a week. And I'm like, because they play by themselves. They go, I feed them breakfast, then I'm like, "Okay, play time." And they go and play in the basement and I'd go work and then they come up when they get hungry and I feed them and the little one goes down for a nap and the big one goes downstairs and play some more and it just gives you so much more freedom. It's actually better for their brain. Jen: And you're happier as a parent, right, having some time. And I guess before we wrap this up, I want to, you know, I just, I guess it's to, it's nice to let parents know that there is detrimental effects to your child by over supervising them, right? So just saying like there's measurable detrimental effects to these kids. Allana: Children who are closely supervised during their play will hamstring their own play. They won't allow themselves to go into a full play state because they're anticipating being interrupted or corrected. Jen: Oh interesting. Allana: So if you are constantly supervising your child's play, they probably aren't getting the benefit of their own play either. Even if you're not playing with them because they're anticipating having you go, "You can't do that. Don't use that that way. That's a firetruck, not a helicopter." And they're not allowing themselves to go into that fully immersed play state where all those benefits of play, all the problem solving and executive functioning skills and all that really get used in that play state. They keep their play very, very surface level when they're being supervised closely. Lauren: That's interesting because I find myself, I can't not correct when they're in view. So I put them out of view. I'm like, "Go in the playroom and play because when you are doing this, I cannot help myself but say stop it." Jen: It's like when I bake with my kids. I, like, can't handle cooking or baking with my kids because I, I just am like, "Don't do that. That's wrong. You're going to break it!" Allana: My mom's a pastry chef and God bless her, she can and I'm like, "Okay, that is your thing, Nana." She is totally into the whole cooking thing. And you know he got all these little, like, real knives and stuff, but they're small so that he can handle them. And the other day we were making, just chopping up potatoes for like roasted potatoes for dinner and he was like making these, like, really, like, random sized chunks. And I was like, "Okay, you're too," Jen: You're like twitchy about it. Allana: One inch cubes, not two, you're holding a knife and you're doing well. You're not killing yourself. Annie: Oh, that's awesome. So a lot of this is, I mean, it's not just about retraining kids to do this. It could be about retraining yourself too, or both or both depending on what you're kind of used to and what your goals are. And, but either way, I mean, just to summarize, this is good for both sides. Both parties, both parents, caregivers and kids when they have unsupervised specifically outside, but unsupervised play. So- Allana: Absolutely. And so many parents, so many moms express that guilt to me cause they're like, "I feel bad making the play by themselves. I feel bad that I'm not engaged with them. I feel super guilty." And it's like, "This isn't about you. This is about them." And it's, yes, it benefits you as well and that's nice, but this really is about them. This is for them. And it takes that guilt away. You don't have to feel bad for making your kids play by themselves. It's good for them. Jen: I want to just kind of leave us with this vision. I'm going to tell you something that really struck me when my kids were younger and was an eye opener moment for me actually. And I was watching, I was in a hard place with motherhood, right? Like these three kids under five, oh my gosh, under four actually. And I was watching The Good Shepherd and it's an old movie that takes place in the fifties. It has Matt Damon and Angelina Jolie and there's this scene where Matt Damon, he's coming home at the end of the day and all, and he's walking up to the house. It was a well researched scene and this is not even what the scene was about. It's just something that I noticed. The moms were all grouped together chatting in one person's front yard and they were all smoking as they would be in the 50s and kids were running everywhere. And I like had this pain in my chest when I saw it because it reminded me of how lonely I was and how parenting must've been so differently back then. Different back then. And not just that, I think moms are more lonely now. It's that kids are more lonely now in a way too, right. Because we are very isolated inside the homes and yeah, I just quite, I really quite crave are return to that and I feel like we've kind of found it in our new neighborhood and like it's just easier and simpler and yeah. Allana: I think, I think once we realize that what children do naturally is, there's generally a reason behind it. We don't tend to trust kids in what they're doing. We want to, we think we know better, but children know what they need and they'll do what they need. And once you can start to trust your kids that way and realize that what they're doing, whether it's a behavior, even if it's a maladaptive behavior, even if it's like what they're playing, if it makes no sense to you, children are doing things for a reason. There is never a child that is doing something just because they feel like it. Like there's never not a reason behind something that a child does. And so when you can trust that and trust that your child is doing what they need, it's so freeing for us. And it does allow us to go back to that, you know, children are allowed to be rambunctious. They're allowed to get hurt, they're allowed to be unsupervised. And you know, people keep thinking, "Oh well, you know, lots of, you know, the good old days didn't exist." Well, no, but we can bring them back in a modern way that is safe and comfortable for everybody. It doesn't have to be the way it was in the fifties for it to be beneficial. Jen: Right. We have tape and our GPSes. Allana: Exactly. That was a hard thing for me because I was like, I have a Bluetooth tracker on every, on my keys and my wallet. Even on my car. I have ev

Shopping For Chinese New Year's Eve Dinner At A Traditional Market-Taipei,Taiwan Binjiang Market is my favorite traditional morning market to visit in Taipei, Taiwan. Close to the wholesale fruit/vegetable market and wholesale seafood market you can get everything here from bananas to King Crab! Personally I mostly shop for fruit at Binjiang Market. Sometimes I'll buy sashimi and I will occasionally visit the Addiction Aquatic Development Restaurant for takeaway sushi or grilled fish. It's especially exciting to visit the market leading up to Chinese New Year as vendors will bring in special items knowing people will want to buy the best for the reunion dinner. Thanks so much for watching! You can support the channel by becoming a patron! For as little as $2/month you an help with production and travel costs and get access exclusive content! Visit my Patreon page to see all of the offers:https://www.patreon.com/FarEastTravels Help others discover the podcast by writing a review in the iTunes Store:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/far-east-travels-inspired-by-rick-steves-national-geographic/id890305531?mt=2Follow me on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/johnsaboesfareasttravels/Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/FarEastAdventureTravel/Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/johnsaboeofficial/

Episode 039 Hike Italy : The Italian Lakes District   Hike and Kayak the most beautiful lakes in the world*   Located in the Italian alps, the Italian Lakes District has spectacular pristine lakes surrounded by the majestic alps!  No wonder so many celebrities like George Clooney, Madonna and Sir Richard Branson have purchased homes here.   On today’s Active Travel Adventures podcast, we interview Christine Jenkins, who went on Active Adventure’s ‘Dolce Vita’ fully guided ten day adventure travel holiday.  Christine explains that each day, she thought if she had to go home that day, her expectations were exceeded, and still every day got better still!   She hiked stunning trails overlooking the lakes, and kayaked on Lake Como and Lake Orto (the latter being her favorite since it is less crowded).   Of course, in Italy, all the food and ample wine was divine - and plentiful!   Here is the Dolce Vita itinerary: Day 1:  Arrive Milan Malpensa, visit Sacromonte Varallo Day 2: Hike to Rifugio Crespi Day 3 — Hiking the Walser hamlets of Valsesia Day 4 — Hike down to Pella, boat to Orta San Giulio Day 5 — Sea kayak Lake Orta Day 6 — Hike the Mottarone mountain range Day 7 — Hiking Val Grande National Park Day 8 — Journey to Lake Como, hike to Vezio Castle Day 9 — Sea kayaking Lake Como Day 10 — Back to Milan Malpensa   Links mentioned on today’s show: Ep 28   Annapurna Nepal with Stan Ep 35   Mont Blanc hike through Italy, Switzerland and France Active Adventures fully guided 10 day hike and kayak of the Italian Lake district Podcast web page www.ActiveTravelAdventures.com Host of the Active Travel Adventures podcast   Twitter@Kit_Parks Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures Instagram:  parks.kit   Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00   Intro 02:13   How Christine got in to adventure travel 02:30   How switched from regular travel to adventure travel 03:30   Making new friends on adventure travel holidays 03:55   Why chose the Italian Lakes vacation 04:58   What makes Active Adventures different 05:32   How difficult was this adventure 06:11   Adventure travel as team building 06:24   Where were fellow travelers from 06:47   How did she train 07:33   Is elevation an issue 07:59   Landscape 08:47   UNESCO Valsesia   09:48   Favorite memories 10:20   Refugios 11:45   Hike into Alagna 12:06   Alagna 13:06  Breakfasts 13:47   Italy does food right 14:49   Dinners 15:48   Typical daily activities 17:36   Describe the lakes 19:21   Describe the landscape 20:35   Visit to the glacier 20:57   When did Christine go 21:42   Using hiking sticks 22:06  Surprise lake swim 23:16  Christine describes her group 24:32   The trip exceeds all expectations 25:53   Mont Blanc and Annapurna (Nepal) 26:58   Celebrities at Lake Como 28:28  Played hooky 29:38   Using a local guide 30:02   Paragliding 31:57   Naked boaters at dinner 33:30  Christine’s guides 35:15   Fresh foccacia 35:49   Accommodations 37:25   What she wished she’d known 38:19   Traveling solo 39:23   Advice to anyone considering the Italian Lakes 40:20   How Christine chooses where to travel 42:15   ATA and affiliate partners 43:13   How to get the FREE Travel Planners 43:29   A shout out to Pat 43:37   Reach out to Kit   Time Stamped Show Transcript   Christine: 00:00I said to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, you know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day... it just can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say.   Kit: 00:21'Dolce vida' the good life, the sweet life. Today we're going to explore the sweet life in Italy. We're going to the Italian Lakes district, an area of Italy you may not be familiar with. Welcome to the Active Travel Adventures podcast. I'm your host Kit Parks, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're not interested in an ordinary life. You want a bigger life, one filled with excitement, adventure, interesting people and challenges. You want to explore the world and different cultures. You want to stretch yourself. You get your jollies off a conquering a difficult feat, and you love how adventure travel can propel your life forward. At the Active Travel Adventures podcast, website, and community, our number one mission is to provide you with the information and tools that you need to take on these adventures. Each show explores an exciting new destination to see if it's something you're interested in and you'll be learning what to expect from someone like you who's actually done it.   Kit: 01:11If the destination piques your interest, then head over to the website where you can see photos, get more detailed itinerary information, and other important information on the website. Also, you can download the free printer friendly travel planner. The planner has all the important links and recommendations you need to actually plan your adventure, or you can wait for the beginning of the month when I send out a monthly and note, I say 'monthly' newsletter that includes all the new travel planners along with other tips and deals. I'll never sell your email or spam you, I promise.   Kit: 01:41 So today we're going to be going to the stunningly beautiful Italian lakes district. Our guest today explains how she enjoyed the good life in the Lakes District of Italy. So let's get started. If you could start by just introducing yourself and perhaps telling us your age.   Christine: 02:01My name is Christine Jenkins and I am 66 years old.   Kit: 02:05 And how did you first get into adventure travel?   Christine: 02:08I probably started a good 15 years ago. I've always wanted to travel. I've always wanted to see the world. I think I got that from my mom who never had that opportunity, so she always was encouraging. And I also love the outdoors and I just connected my two loves.   Kit: 02:28 How did you make the leap say, okay, I want to do that kind of travel versus the tour bus or go to the cities and all that? And so what, what was the thought process or how did you finally say, okay, this is what I'm going to do? And then what did you do?   Christine: 02:40Well, I actually, I have done the bus tours. I did two with my mom and then one day I, and this was before the Internet was really popular, I knew there was a hiking trip in Nova Scotia, Canada and I decided to sign up for that and flew Halifax in Nova Scotia. And my husband was a little worried about me going by myself, so that was my first test and I loved it ever since. I love the outdoors. I love the sounds when you're by yourself. I love getting off the beaten track. Usually you're with a group of likeminded people. I've met some fabulous people on all my hikes.   Kit: 03:22 That's one thing I, that's a recurring theme in this show is that you meet people... That usually each trip I make one or two lifelong friends from that trip.   Christine: 03:32I still keep in touch with two people. In fact, one couple lives in North Carolina. Actually, no, it was my second trip. It was to Newfoundland and there's a couple, both doctors, and they're in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I still keep in touch with them.   Kit: 03:47 And today we're going to be talking about the Italian lakes. So, of all the different trips that you've taken, what made you say that's where I'm going next?   Christine: 03:55It's actually a kind of a funny story. I knew, you know, I was looking around to see where I wanted to go next. I happen to be on Facebook and one of my Facebook friends kept saying, you know, he liked Active Adventures, so I thought, -- and he's kind of an outdoors guy... he teaches physical education... he's a kind of a historian... So I decided, I'm going to checkout this Active Adventures.   Christine: 04:21So I checked it out and I saw the different hikes, but the one that really drew me was Italian Lakes District, I think partly because of the length of time it was 11 days, which was really nice. We could fly in from Toronto to Milan. So it was a direct flight. It was easy to get to, but I think the kicker was we got to kayak for two days, which broke up the hiking. And I love kayaking and it was perfect. I asked my neighbor, "Do you want to come?" She said, "Sign me up," and away we went.   Kit: 04:50Perfect. Yeah, that's, that is one thing I like about Active is it's usually not just hiking. They usually mix in some cycling or paddling or something like that, so multisport, but predominantly hiking.   Christine: 05:01That's right. Predominantly hiking and if you didn't want to hike in a day, that's fine too. We had a lady who had a a meniscus issue and she had a torn meniscus. She had come in from Iceland. She was a photo journalist and so they accommodated her and so she got to do what she wanted to do during the day. So they were very accommodating, very flexible   Kit: 05:24 And how difficult is this, because you know, there's different degrees of difficulty for some of these adventures. On a scale of one to five, where would you place this particular adventure?   Christine: 05:33I would probably put it, I'd say between three and four. I mean I've certainly done more challenging hikes, but there were a few days it was challenging, like our very first full hiking day, you know, because where I live we don't have mountains to climb, so yeah, it was, I thought it was challenging, but it wasn't beyond... none of us had to say, "I can't do this. I give up." We all did it. We all pulled together and we had a great time.   Kit: 06:02 It's almost like a team building experience as well.   Christine: 06:05It was. It was and a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And trust me, when you got to hike through some of these beautiful alpine valleys, it was worth it!   Kit: 06:16 And that's one thing that we really didn't tell folks exactly where the Italian lakes are... And this is in northern Italy. So you're in the Alps?   Christine: 06:24You are in the Alps. When you land in Milan, you can actually... It doesn't take long for you to leave Milan and you can see the Alps in the background. And a couple of places where we were, Switzerland was across the lake, so that's how far north we were.   Kit: 06:39 Wow. Wow. So what kind of training did you do to prepare for this?   Christine: 06:44I kayak because I live near a lake, so I did a lot of kayaking. I try to walk, I have two dogs. I walk them everyday, so that's seven kilometers. And I did small day hikes in my area. I've always had good cardiovascular health and so I didn't really find it a problem. I just keep active in the winter. I snow shoe and I cross country ski so I always had my heart rate up and I think that's the key. And pacing yourself, you know. Pacing yourself, if you pace yourself too, you don't have to feel like you have to be at the head of the line all the time. If you do, not to say slow, but a, a steady pace, it works out.   Kit: 07:25 Was elevation an issue for you or for any of the other hikers?   Christine: 07:30No, not here. I've had it in Peru, but no. I did not experience it and I don't believe any of my other fellow hikers experienced it, or, they didn't mention it at all.   Kit: 07:42 Okay. So most of the higher mountains are surrounding you, is that right? I'm trying to get a visual. Tell us a little bit about the landscape so we can kind of get a picture what it looks like.   Christine: 07:50Well, at the beginning, like I said, in our first full hike, you know, we went up through the alpine meadows. There was snow up higher in the mountains. You went through these little lush valleys. It's just like a picture postcard you would think of as a for Switzerland, but you were still in Italy. And you come to a little hamlet in the middle of nowhere and the people were lovely.   Christine: 08:14We'd have our lunch at a refugio somewhere. We'd have local meats and cheeses and you're just looking at the mountains and the waterfalls, and all you can hear when you're hiking is a bit of a breeze. The cow bells, because all the cows have bells around their necks and it was... there was no other manmade sound. So it was, it was beautiful, priceless.   Kit: 08:38 Very cool. Now in that first valley you go to as a UNESCO World Heritage site and I'm going to say this wrong, I say everything wrong, Valsesia, something like that.   Christine: 08:48Valsesia. Yes. I believe that's how it's pronounced.   Kit: 08:51 Can you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 08:53It was nice because as far as landscape, it was stunning. I'll probably use that word a lot in my descriptions, but everything was stunning... spectacular. At the main center was Varallo, and it was beside a river. And we hiked up to a UNESCO world heritage site and there's a monastery there. And you can come out over edge and looked down over the town of Valsesia.   Christine: 09:17Yeah, and yeah, it was incredible. Incredible. Some of the oldest religious structures in Italy are located there in. It's on the side of the valley.   Kit: 09:27 I see here in my notes that the Franciscan friars built that in 1491. For those of us here in the States we are like, "Whoa, that's old. Right?"   Christine: 09:36That's the year before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.   Kit: 09:41 Well seeing that sounds like a great way to start your adventure. Any other favorite memories from that day?   Christine: 09:45You know, it's funny, one of the memories I have is looking at the ledge over the town below and we could see this thunderstorm, this huge thunderstorm coming down a valley across the way. So that was really kind of neat to see and you could see it approaching us. And the thunder in the mountains, you know, they bounce: the echoes of the thunder bounces off the mountains. So it's sounds a lot louder than it was probably was.   Kit: 10:08 . You mentioned refugios. For those that may not be familiar with that term, can you explain that please?   Christine: 10:17It's a small hamlet or a refuge, I guess would be the English way. We went to a couple of them for a couple of hikes and one in particular we had to hike up to this place where we were going to have our lunch, and it was uphill and it was a, it was a challenging hike and it was by this really wildly raging river. Anyway, we get to this refugio. It's like a little hamlet there.   Kit: 10:43 Okay. I need some more clarification there. I think of refugio is kind of like a mountain hut.   Christine: 10:48There was, there were several huts, so you could actually, I think stay there, but I don't think they're privately owned and they had this restaurant. And there's no road in and the food was outstanding, like it was just, you know, you couldn't believe like you could have fresh cheeses and meats from the local valley.   Christine: 11:13There was fresh rabbit, there was fresh fish. Nothing was deep fried. Like in North America, we would not hike or walk our way to a restaurant like that. If we did, people would complain, but everything would be deep fried. Everything here is fresh and you could sit out in the patio and look at the mountains and the rivers and it was beautiful. Just beautiful.   Kit: 11:36 And so after your lunch, then what did you do?   Christine: 11:39Well, we had a bonus because we get to go downhill the whole way and we hiked all the way back into Alagna and that's where we stayed for three nights in Alagna. And actually one of our guide's, Andrea, he was from Alagna. So he was able to give us the inside scoop on Alagna.   Kit: 11:58 So tell us a little bit about Alagna.   Christine: 12:00Alagna, it looks like a little Swiss town, but you've got to keep reminding yourself that you're in Italy. There's all little cafes, shops... Where we stayed - at the hotel Monterosa - it was right beside the church and the church rings the bells every hour and a half hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But it was a beautiful little hotel where we stayed. The town was old. Alagnal is sort of off the beaten track for North Americans to go over, especially in the winter. But English wasn't... It wasn't difficult to get by when you were talking to a shopkeeper or in a little cafe, you were understood or you figured it out. But there were all little side streets. There was a beautiful little river going outside of town, which we could hear from our hotel. And yeah, it was a lovely time. We were there for three nights. Fabulous breakfast in the morning. Yeah, it was great.   Kit: 12:57 And so what, what kind of foods do they have for breakfast? And from my notes, it looks like that whole area was populated by German people that moved there in like fifth century AD or something.   Christine: 13:08Yeah, the Valser people. Yes. Well the hotel we stayed at for the three days are actually owned by some, a couple from Sweden and think that's been a couple of generations in their family. But in breakfast we had fresh fruit, Granola, homemade breads, homemade jams, coffee, tea, yogurt. Really good yogurt. You didn't starve. That's all I can tell you. It was probably the best Granola I've ever had in my life.   Kit: 13:37 Probably freshly made and everything. And they do food right!   Christine: 13:40It's all fresh. I can tell you that whole trip I did not have... We did not have one bad meal anywhere. It was hard to come home.   Kit: 13:50 We could sure learn how to do food better from the way they do things we do. We do. And they eat seasonally to. They wouldn't think of having strawberries in the middle of winter. They eat what is locally produced and available then.   Christine: 14:01They do eat seasonal and the other thing they do is they eat as local as possible, so you may get... If we had a prepared lunch, like maybe our guide, we had two guides, Andrea and Jo, and they might prepare, pick up some stuff, at little stores or grocery stores and they put out this fabulous picnic lunch with cheeses that were from that valley. That was the only place you could get it or salamis... That type thing. Breads, fresh fruit and yeah, it was. It was incredible. The wine, of course we had wine at lunch.   Kit: 14:37 Nice. Nice. And what about dinner?   Christine: 14:39Well actually I was going to say that was one of the things that was outstanding for this trip was the food. All our meals were covered and nothing was skimped on. We ate the best you could possibly have. We had wine with lunch. Usually we had wine with dinner, but what was interesting is after we'd finished our hike for the day or our kayak, we go back to our rooms, change, meet for dinner. We'd always have an aperitivo, which is like... it was a tray brought out and the had meats and cheeses and crackers and add wine. Then I'd think, "Oh, that's our dinner." No, it's not dinner, and then we'd still go to a restaurant. And so I'm really glad that we were hiking because I'm sure I'dve come home about 10 pounds more than I normally am.   Kit: 15:27And you're in Italy so you know everything's going to be good.   Christine: 15:31Oh yeah. Everything was beyond my expectations. Everything was fresh, nothing was processed. It was awesome.   Kit: 15:39 Very cool. So now you're using this as your base camp. So what kinds of things did you do each day?   Christine: 15:44If we didn't do hiking, we did the kayaking on the lakes: Lake Orta and Lake Como. We didn't kayak on Maggiore. There was one day we decided as a group -- and we had a small group that was just five hikers-- so that was kind of nice, and we decided one day we didn't want to hike and were in Stresa, which is on Lake Maggiore. So we went and walked into town. Some went to the islands and we did a little bit of shopping. So we just, like I say, the guidess were very flexible, and like I said, we decided we didn't want to hike that day.   Christine: 16:19On the days we went kayaking, we'd be out by the water's edge at nine in the morning and then there was a gentleman by the name of Juliana who came up from Genoa, Italy. He brought the kayaks first time, most all the people had kayaked before, so that was good. But he gave us safety instructions. We got fitted with life jackets and we were usually by 9:30, we were out on the lakes. We stop about maybe 10, 30, 11 at a little village and stop for an espresso and then we get back in our kayak, kayak a bit more and then stop it another village and maybe have lunch or stop at a beach. And our guides would put lunch out. In between that we go swimming in the lakes. And then in the afternoon we might stop about 2:30 or 3:00 in another little village and have gelato. It was very civilized. It was, yeah. It was very civilized.   Christine: 17:19And swimming: The lakes were clear and it was... It was hard to believe you weren't at the ocean. The colors of the lakes were beautiful.   Kit: 17:28 So tell us about the lakes itself. What is it? The fact that the lakes are surrounded by mountains or the lakes are particularly pretty in and of themselves? I'm trying to get a feel for what it looks like.   Christine: 17:39Well, the lakes are, they are like jewels. And there was this one day we did hike to the top of one of the mountains , and we could see Orta and Maggiore on both sides. So we had a really good view. Orta is the smallest, then Maggiore, then Como. The lakes were like a blue color, like a aqua blue color. Very clear. Especially in Como. The sides had these old Italian homes that have probably been in families for generations.   Christine: 18:10You know, there's the Piazza's nearby, and I think George and Amal Clooney live on Como, (but we didn't see them). But very steep sides to a lot of the lakes, but there are some beaches. Two of the lakes are Lake Como and Lake Orta are what they call 'crypto depression' and that's the one word I took away... my takeaway from that trip. Crypto depression means the bottom of the lake is actually below sea level and there are a few other ones in the world. Actually the Finger Lakes up in New York state. And actuallyOrta is not a crypto depression. Maggiore and Como are crypto depression, so they're below sea level and the lakes are usually long and narrow and their shores are very steep.   Christine: 19:06I think it was in Maggiore that they believe Mussolini hid his gold and it might be lying at the bottom of the lake. He had a hideout on Maggiore, on one of the islands on Maggiore. So that's the legend. That's a local legend   Kit: 19:12 OK, so when you're doing the hiking, are you in pastures, forests, or what are you hiking through?   Christine: 19:17We're doing it all. There were pastures, forests... There was one day we went through a whole, for about an hour and a half, all it was was chestnut trees. And it was quite a challenging hike. It was steep and it was very hot, but it was so, it was so pretty and so quiet. And we came out to pasture area, and then we had to go under some fences. So yes we had a real variety of landscapes for. hiking.   Christine: 19:57There was another day when we went up in a gondola and then we went up on a series of three gondolas, too. We actually got up to where the glaciers were, and that was an interesting day. It was cold and there was a lot of ice hikers, they had the crampons on their boots and they were doing some ice hiking. But we had to take three sets of gondolas to go higher and higher and higher. And if you have a fear of heights, you may not want to take it. I found that kind of a challenge, but you know, it was very barren landscape, which is a rock and ice and we'd be going along and you'd think that the gondola was going to hit the side of a rock face and then suddenly it will go up and then you were in your station where you get off and walk to the next one and keep going higher up. That was quite incredible.   Kit: 20:33 Did you get to walk on the glacier or just look at it?   Christine: 20:37Yes. We got to walk on the snow. Yes, we did. That is so cool. It was down below. It was probably in the upper eighties, low nineties up (there). It was a bit of a reprieve.   Kit: 20:49 And so what month did you go?   Christine 20:50 July   Kit: 20:52 July. Okay. So you're in the heat of summer.   Christine: 20:53Oh yes. Yes. But apparently it was very warm there in June. They had a trip in June, so I understand it was warm then, but you know what? It wasn't a really oppressive heat. It wasn't really humid. It wasn't really dry, but it was manageable. If you're dressed appropriately, I would strongly recommend a sun hat, especially to cover the back of your neck and your face, I would. That's the one thing. And the other thing I would suggest to people is to take hiking poles. Some people didn't. I think that they're really is helpful for, steadying yourself and, and pulling yourself up on steep parts or giving you some stability.  And when we're on the way down the mountain.   Kit: 21:33 Well I like poles too, for going downhill because they take a lot of pressure off my knee. Yes. And also I'm clumsy. I cannot tell you how many falls they've stopped by having that extra appendage to me or crossing a river or creek. They give you that little extra stability. I don't think I've ever fallen in a creek. I don't want to jinx myself though.   Christine: 21:50No, I haven't either, but one never knows.   Kit: 21:54 Of course. Now I will. Now that I've put that out in the universe. Any other special memories from that area?   Christine: 22:00Well, one of the days I have that sticks out in my mind was on Lake Orta and we went over to San Giulio Island and it's... There's a monastery there and abbey and you could... It's very easy to walk around this little island and there's several spots where you looked down like the old cobblestone streets.   Christine: 22:20Very narrow. In fact, I don't even think there was vehicles on it. I don't even recall any vehicles anyway that you could go swimming. So our group (Jo left us, she had to do some things), so our group, we went down the small passageway to the lake and four of us didn't have bathing suits on, but they were in our pack sack, so we lost all modesty. Just went into just a little dip in the wall, threw caution to the wind, stripped down, put on our bathing suits, dove in the lake, and we thought, well, if there's cameras out there, there's cameras out there. So be it. But the water felt so beautiful against your hot skin. It was...it was beautiful. It was just the most incredible feeling. You can feel yourself cool down and we were laughing like crazy, yet we felt like kids.   Kit: 23:07 That was fun. In your group, you said there's a small group of five: men, women or a combination?   Christine: 23:12All women. My neighbor came, and then there was a lady from San Diego and a lady from Manhattan, and a lady from Rochester.   Kit: 23:21 And what would you say the age group range was?   Christine: 23:24I would say the age group would have been maybe 52... The lady from San Diego was in her fifties, early fifties and to about in the upper seventies. And these ladies -- all of them are really in great shape -- they did their age group proud. They had nothing to be ashamed of . We had the lady from Rochester who was in her seventies and she was fabulous. She was in fabulous shape.   Kit: 23:55 Wow. Those are my role models. In fact, I interviewed a guy by the name of Stan on the Annapurna episode, which I'll put a link to in the show notes. He's in his seventies and has already planned an adventure for two years out. Unbelievable! Cool. That's how I want to age.   Christine: 24:07Wow. That's good for him. Well, I'm planning to go to Mont Blanc next year. I've already booked my trip.   Kit: 24:16 Alright, so any other, any other thoughts about that area before we go to the Val Grande National Park?   Christine: 24:22All I can say... I'll just reiterate just the whole atmosphere. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about it last night: thinking about what I was going to say each day of that trip, the whole trip and combination each day. I, I remember saying to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, "You know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day, a bonus day. It just... it can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say. This has been no doubt, the best hiking trip I've ever had, and I've been to a lot of places. There was nothing I have to say bad about it. Nothing.   Kit: 25:10Wow. And that sure says a lot.   Christine: 25:12Yes. And I'd actually consider going back again in two years... Do it again.   Kit: 25:17 Yeah. It hadn't really even been on my radar, but then I started doing some research, and I thought, that looks really nice. I think that's now on the radar.   Christine: 25:23Well, it hadn't been on my radar either. I mean I have looked at other places. I've looked at Scotland, I've been to Scotland before. I thought about Iceland and I do know Active Adventures does Iceland now, but I was supposed to go to Mont Blanc with another company two years ago, but I badly broke my arm so that put a caboosh on that. So anyway. But anyways...   Kit: 25:46 In fact, the Mont Blanc episode is probably one of my most popular ones.You'll want to take a look at that? That's episode number 35, and I forgot to mention that Stanley, the guy that I said in the seventies that did Annapurna in Nepal, his was episode number 28. Anytime you want to look at an old episode, just go to ActiveTravelAdventures.comslash the episode number, so it'd be slashed 28 or 35, or if you forget, just go to the Directory Page, and then you can either use the search bar or just scroll down and see what rocks your boat.   Kit: 26:15On the website. You can either directly download and/or listen to the podcasts.Plus, you'll also find more details on the trip itself, including itineraries, tons of photos, often videos, and there's just a lot of information there. If you need either even further details, you can download -for free- the travel planners that have clickable links that can get you directly to the information or places that you need in order to plan your trip. And those come automatically with the monthly -- and note that I say monthly-- newsletter. I do not spam you or sell your name. Or you can download them as you need them from the website. Let's go back to the interview.   Kit: 26:50I know from the pictures that you sent, and from my research that the Italian Lakes area is absolutely gorgeous. But to put that in prospective, residents have included George and Amal Clooney, Richard Branson, Madonna.. These are folks who can buy and live anywhere: where money is no object. Yet, this is where they choose. That demonstrates how beautiful it is there.   Christine: 27:13There are some beautiful mansions and you can tell they've been in families for a long, long time and they're old architecture but so beautifully maintained and what was really neat is the boat pulls into a garage at the side of the cliff. It's like a boat garage, you know, and these beautiful old wooden boats. Oh yeah. Fabulous. Fabulous. Obviously this is a ritzy area, very private, very exclusive, especially at Como and. But you'll also see a lot more North Americans there too. Like eEnglish is extremely common, and British and British accents or North American accent. So on my flight over to Milan, there were people... That's where they were going to Bellagio on Lake Como,   Kit: 28:04 A Huffington Post article once ranked the Italian Lakes district as the most beautiful lakes in the world.   Christine: 28:10Oh, I can understand that! Orto is not as busy a lake. It's the smaller of the lakes. I preferred that lake just because it was less busy.   Kit: 28:21 So let's switch gears and now you're going to the Val Grande National Park. an you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 28:24Yeah, that was the one day... We actually that day we did not do that. That was the day we decided not to hike. That was the hookey day. So a couple of us walked into Stresa, which is a small village, beautiful little boardwalk from where we were staying, all the way into Stresa. And some of these beautiful old hotels along the lake side, you know, something you would see from the 1920's-30's. I'm sure they're wildly expensive and then there's three islands on the lake and you could take the boats to them. And we all met on this one island for lunch.   Kit: 29:02 But it sounds like that was a well worth it Hookey Day.   Christine: 29:04It was well worth the hooky day. So no, and everything was fine. We enjoyed our day so I can't comment on Val Grande National Park except to say apparently there's a lot of hiking trails in there. And they suggest you have a guide or a proper map because there are people who have gotten lost and they have never been found there. So that kind of struck the fear of God into us.   Kit: 29:30 So I think to a lot of times when you're hiking in some of these particularly remote areas that it's good to have a guide with you.   Christine: 29:37I think it is too. I mean you learn so much too. Especially somebody local, right?   Kit: 29:41 Yeah. The flora and fauna as well. You might see an animal. You have no idea what it is or a pretty flower and it's just something you take a picture of where they can tell you, oh, that's a little, little whatever it is.   Christine: 29:52Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Kit: 29:54 When people ask you, "Oh, how was your trip?" What's the story that comes to mind?   Christine: 29:57Well, I did something on the trip that was accommodated for me and for the lady from San Diego. We were able to do it. It's not so much funny, but it was fun. We were able to do it, I think, because we had a small group and we went paragliding.   Kit: 30:17That sounds fun.   Christine: 30:19Yes. So, and that was in Alagna. So two of us went paraglidingone morning. When we went with a pilot -and we went separately- and we had to take a gondola up to the site is about at 8,800 feet. And we were up for about 20 minutes and then you could come in. And we landed over in Alagna and I remember the pilot saying to me, "Do you want to touch the steeple of the churches as we go by?" I said that I'd pass on that one.   Kit: 30:47Oh brother, I don't know if I'd have the nerve to do that!   Christine: 30:52So that's wasn't in the plans. And and I don't think if they had a big group that they could do that, but they accommodated, us. And we were able to do it because we could do it early in the morning and the weather was right, the window was right, that type of thing.   Christine: 31:07So the other things we did that was a lot of fun is we went down, it's called LP Land and it's on Mottarone Mountain and it's up at the top. You start at about 1,490 meters and it's a go cart, and you go down the mountain in a go kart by yourself (or with somebody else) and it zigzags down and you can reach some pretty high speeds. That was, you know, you get a beautiful view of the lake, although you're trying to not scream as you're going down, so not die and hope hang onto your water bottle or if you know. But um, that was fun.   Kit: 31:47 Any funny story come to mind?   Christine: 31:49Oh, okay. I do have a funny one. Actually. We were on Lake Orto. We were out for evening dinner. One night we were at arestaurant right on the lake. Beautiful meal as usual, and w see this boat going by. And there's three naked men in it, and they're raising their glasses of wine to all the patrons of the restaurant. So everybody's kind of stunned and we thought, well, we'll wait for them to come back. We'll have our cameras ready. But they never came back. But we all had a good laugh over that one. That was. Yeah, that was funny. That was funny.   Kit: 32:21 And Europeans have a different mentality about nudity than North Americans.   Christine: 32:25You know what? And that's the other thing too, is I really like. You're absolutely right. I saw a lot of ladies who would be in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and they were wearing bikinis. And I thought, "Good for you!" In fact, I almost thought about buying one for myself, but Jo our one guide, she said that their attitudes over here are so different. And yeah, I thought: it is what it is, and they were out there in their bikinis.   Kit: 32:54I'm surprised they had tops on, but maybe that's just the south of France.   Christine: 32:58I saw all with tops if they were standing up or sitting up. But their men folk were attentive to them. They were draped in gold jewelry and all that.   Kit: 33:08That's so interesting. Yeah. And France, most of the women didn't have tops and it didn't make a difference what shape your body was in skimpy bathing suits.   Christine: 33:17I know, I know. And we have a lot to learn in North America.   Kit: 33:23 Any other things you want to tell us about your Italian lakes adventure?   Christine: 33:27 I want to tell you that we had two guides and I really want to mention our guides, Andrea, who is from Alagna, Italy and Jo.Jo was originally from Wales but lives in Auckland, New Zealand now. Those guys were outstanding. They were knowledgeable. They were patient, they were flexible. Andrea, he was a really good van driver. He navigated all these little narrow roads. Sometimes we go through these little villages where the road was barely wider than the mirrors of vehicle and yeah, he, you know, we always felt safe with him. Jo was funny. We gave her a nickname. We called her '10 minute Jo' and the reason was, if we'd be hiking a particularly challenging day,she'd go, "Well there's a refugio up ahead." "Well, how far is that, Jo?" "Oh, it's about 10 minutes," and then a while later we'd be thinking. Well, it's been 10 minutes. She'd then say, "Oh, it's another 10 minutes." Everything was 10 minutes with her, so we ended up calling her '10 minute Jo'.   Kit: 34:29That reminds me when I was doing a two week section hike of the Appalachian trail with my girlfriends, Gerry and Jane. And I had the elevation map and so I would always know exactly how many more hills we had to climb, but as we're getting tired at the end of the day... Everybody's pooped., ready to find a camp site and all that. I'd be like, "Come on, you can do it. This is the last hill, I promise! This, the last hill!" And we'd get up over that hill, and of course there'd be another hill. I was like, "Oh no,really, THISis the last hill." So I'm not sure what they called me behind my back, but I doubt there were as kind in calling me "10 minute Kit". Sometimes to make it to the end, you've just got to fib.   Christine: 35:03Yeah, I know.   Kit: 35:07 Anything else about your guides or transit?   Christine: 35:09 Well, one of the other little things I have to tell you about is Giuliano, who was the gentleman... He would drive up from Genoa twice with all the kayaks. And the second time he came up he brought us some foccacia from a local bakery. He left at 5:00 AM in the morning from Genoa to get up to the Lakes ,and he had this fresh foccacia. And it was actually still a bit warm when we had it at our break. That was memorable, and it was so good.   Kit: 35:36Oh, how sweet and thoughtful.   Christine: 35:39Yeah. Very thoughtful.   Kit: 35:42 And I forgot to ask you accommodations. Are you in guest houses or are your camping? I know you said you were at one place for three days. Tell us a little bit about where you stayed.   Christine: 35:49We stayed in hotels. The first three nights and we were in Alagna. It was a beautiful old hotel run by a couple from Sweden and I love the wooden shutters because they could open up, you know. And clean, clean rooms. In Stresa, all the rooms were clean and had air conditioning. Yeah, there was nothing too. ..There was absolutely no complaints about the accommodation. It was close to everything. If we wanted to walk somewhere, the one place we stayed at, and I can't think of the name of the town, but they would mostly have balconies or a little doors that open up, although we didn't because it was quite warm. Yeah, it was. The combination was excellent. Excellent.   Kit: 36:30 I'm surprised you had air conditioning. That's great.   Christine: 36:32I know, I know. The one thing, over in Europe, if anybody's ever traveled there, the elevators are very small, so if you know, maybe two people get on with one suitcase each. No more than that. So that's the one adjustment. The other adjustment is a lot of times in Europe they don't use face cloths, so you might, if you, if you are big on using a face cloth, you might want to bring your own face cloth, that type of thing. But other than that it's um, you don't want for anything. I mean, if you need a toothpaste, it's easy to get. If you need wine, it's easy to get. So it's not like you're in a third world country. But little tips like that.   Kit: 37:16 Is there anything you wish you'd known beforehand that you could share with us?   Christine: 37:23No. The only thing I know in the guide -our gear guide- they suggested bringing is a hat and gloves and long underwear. We definitely did not need to pack that. It was too hot. So that took up room and maybe they have a standard gear list they give to everybody, but if I was going in June or July to the Italian Lakes District, definitely don't worry about that. You wouldn't have to worry about that.   Christine: 37:51But I would strongly. I've mentioned earlier, I would strongly suggest poles.   Kit: 37:55Yep. That's a given for me.   Christine: 37:56I know some people don't like them, but I. Yeah, that's a given for me too as well.   Kit: 38:00Yeah. I don't hike without them anymore. I don't care where I'm going and also keeps my rhythm.   Christine: 38:04Oh, it does! Yeah, it does. And it really does. And it gives you a bit of an upper body upper body workout to.   Kit: 38:11 One final thing. You say you travel solo. Usually you will pair up with a group or something like that. I just finished an episode, in fact, I just finished editing it this morning on solo travel. Do you have any thoughts on solo travel?   Christine: 38:23It's how I usually travel. I happened to ask my neighbor. We have traveled once before together and she's a great traveler. We had gone to Point Reyes national seashore in California. We went for a week with a group.   Christine: 38:37I prefer... I like solo traveling because I can, in the evening if I want to go to bed earlier, if I want to read till 1:00 in the morning, I'm not disturbing anybody. You meet some great people traveling solo. I used to be really nervous about traveling solo. Not anymore. There's a lot of women out there that travel solo now. A lot more than one would think. And, and if you find there's other solo travelers, you just kind of end up connecting and looking out for each other. And that's the other thing too, as a group, you spend that much time together. You do become a big family and you do look out for one another.   Kit: 39:16 Two final questions for you. Number one: Somebody says to you, "I'm thinking about going hiking in the Italian lakes." What do you tell them?   Christine: 39:25I say, I'll give you the name of Active Adventures. You will have the best time ever. I promise. I promise you. In fact, I'll go with you.   Kit: 39:34 My last question for you. Where's next?   Christine: 39:38Next year in Switzerland, Italy where you fly into Geneva. So I'm going to do that with Active Adventures. That's my next one. And then in 20,20 I always say I want to go back to the Italian Lakes, but there's so many places to go in this world. I've been to New Zealand but I've never hiked in New Zealand. So I mean there's always that option. There's so many places, so little time, you know, and you want to do those things when you're healthy.   Kit: 40:07And I mean this is not an ad for Active Adventures, but we're both fans. Do you now, when you're picking out which trips are you looking at their website and say where do I go next from there? Or how do you pick your next trip?   Christine: 40:20Well, like I said I had wanted to go to Mont Blanc two years ago and was I had already booked it and I was actually going with my neighbor, the one who went on this one, but I had broken my arm. She went on ahead so it was always in the back of my mind and I was going to go with another company, but I saw through Active Adventures they did Mont Blamc but they also do a kayaking day, which I thought I liked that it kind of changes things up a bit, so that's why I'm going with Active. I've put my deposit down and I'm ready to roll next June.   Kit: 40:51Cool. And so is that how you choose your trips?Is by looking to see where they go now that now that you're a fan or do you follow what I'm saying? How do you choose your next trip? Are you looking at their website to see where they go and choosing from there or do you pull from different areas are or how do you pick your next destination?   Christine: 41:09Oh, so if I was going post 2019, I would see if they have any changes in what places they want or new additions. If there was a particular place I want to go, let's say I wanted to go to Croatia or I wanted to hike in Portugal. I may look online and see about other hiking companies or if it's doable, so I kind of explore. I kind of explore a bit, but to see what others have to say. And like you say, the only reason I found out about Active Adventures was through a friend on Facebook who his Active Adventures kept coming up. So I said, you know, yJo Blow likes Active Adventures. I thought I'm going to have to look into this because I know this guy and he wouldn't just say that. So that's how I got onto it.   Kit: 41:56Well thanks Christine for your time. It's been great and we sure loved learning about the Italian Lakes with you. We'll have to have you back on when you do your next adventure.   Christine: 42:03Alright, for sure.   Kit: 42:05 I love how adventure travel doesn't always mean that you're getting in the mud and all that kind of stuff. Sometimes you can even go to luxurious locations like the Italian Lakes District and live the good life.   Kit: 42:15Regular listeners will know that I don't accept any advertising at all for this program so that I can keep it commercial free. However, I do have affiliate partnershipswith companies that I have selected that I truly believe in, that I recommend to you and with these affiliates at absolutely zero cost to you. Sometimes I'll either get a discount or I might make a commission or sometimes I'll get some bonus travel and such like that. And I want to mention that Active Adventures, even though their name sounds very similar to Active Travel Adventures, we are two totally separate companies, but Active Adventures is one that I highly recommend because my friends and I are true believers that It's just a great company.   Kit: 42:51The people just really spend their time trying to give you a trip of a lifetime, so if like Christine, you want to explore the Italian Lakes District with a guided tour company, I would recommend Active and if you do so, please be sure to let them know that I sent you either by using any of my links or just by letting them know when you book. Using any of my links is a great FREE way for you to show your support of this program.   Kit: 43:13 To get the FREE Travel Planners, be sure to sign up for the newsletter. You can do so by going to the ActiveTreavelAdventures.com website and then clicking on the newsletter tab, or you can just write me a Kit [@t] active travel adventures.com and ask me to put you on. I'll be happy to.   Kit: 43:29 A special shout out to Pat.Pat did just that, and then it wasn't long before we were on the phone chatting. And before you knew it, we're going to be roommates on a great trip to Egypt this fall. I can't wait!   Kit: 43:37 Reach out to me.I'd love to hear from you and I'd like to make this a two way conversation. Until next time, I'll be back in two weeks with another great adventure. This time we're going to go a little bit further north. We're heading up to Norway, which I can't wait to share that with you. Until then. This is Kit Parks, Adventure On.   *According to the Huffington Post      

In this episode, Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. and host Stacy Wellborn talk about the very common and inconvenient nosebleed. What are the causes, biggest myths, treatments, and when is the time to take them seriously? While most common causes of nosebleeds are getting hit or having trauma to the lining of the nose, there are other medical and environmental reasons. While most nosebleeds are just an inconvenient nuisance if they become increasingly more frequent and severe, then that might be a sign of a more significant problem and might indicate it's time to be checked by a physician.   Big Nosebleed Questions: When should I go to urgent care, an ER or see an ENT physician? What are the most common causes of nosebleeds? What is the best and quickest way to stop a nosebleed? What treatments are available for people who suffer from frequent and severe nosebleeds? What over the counter and first aid should I have handy to handle a common nosebleed? Is there a surgery or procedure to get relief from frequent and severe nosebleeds? Need an Appointment or Sinus Consultation? Call Dr. Swain’s nursing staff at 251-470-8823 or schedule an appointment here. Quotables & Tweetables Nosebleeds are super common events, and I see these kinds of problems weekly. Sometimes daily. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. The big thing when you talk about nosebleeds is the severity. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. The lining of the nose and the tissue is delicate, it can be damaged relatively easily, or it can dry out relatively easy depending on where you are or what you're doing. You're set up for some susceptibility to having some nosebleeds. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. One of the first thing we like to do is to try to see if we can get the nose to stop bleeding by getting the blood vessels in there to shrink up and constrict. There are some good medicines over the counter for just that. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. A quick thing to do is to scorch your nose with some Afrin or Neo-Synephrine, and then you can even put some cotton balls with that medicine on it and put the cotton balls on the inside of the nose, and then pinching the nostrils if the nosebleed is coming from up front. Sometimes that can be effective. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. For the simple nosebleeds using some Afrin and some cotton balls and some direct pressure is reasonable. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. If you have a bad enough nosebleed no matter what time of day it is, you're going to get seen by a medical professional and eventually an ENT doctor is probably going to get called. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. Some people are predisposed to have nosebleeds especially those using a CPAP machine. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. We'll look inside the nose to try to see where the blood is coming from. Sometimes I'll even get CAT scans. We'll take pictures of the sinuses to see and make sure there's not an infection, a mass, or a tumor. - Dr. Ron Swain, Jr. While nosebleeds are a common problem, there certainly are levels of severity of them and those that are the most severe are not as common. - Stacy Wellborn  

Just some thoughts. Sometimes I'll post these between interviews. Find me anywhere: Sierra Social Media: @simply_csea Youtube: TBD Website: TBD **Also, thank you so much for listening!!! If you guys catch anything I may have missed in editing, or have some suggestions, please feel free to message me on Instagram @simply_csea** --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/simply-csea/message

Visit us at divorceandyourmoney.com for the #1 divorce resources in the USA and get personalized help. Learn about coaching services here. Thank you for listening! Find a transcript of this episode below. Most of the information on this podcast is focused on leveling the playing field in divorce and making sure that if you aren't the person who was in control of the finances, that you make sure that you're able to get the information you need so you can create and structure a reasonable settlement for the rest of your life and ultimately, to put it bluntly, so you don't get screwed, as they say, in the divorce process. As part of that, and part of the coaching calls that I do every week, one of the recurring themes is that many times you don't have access to essentially information that you'll need so that you can make an informed decision about your financial picture and what the best things are for you to do.   One of the things I want to discuss in this episode is a few ways to get the appropriate financial information in your divorce and make sure that you have a clear and full financial picture. This could be for many reasons and many situations this comes up. Sometimes your spouse is deliberately hiding assets and hiding money from you or misstating your financial picture. That's a very common one., sometimes in a small way, sometimes in a big way. Sometimes it could be the case that your spouse made a mistake and forgot about something. Or maybe you have a complicated financial picture and there are just a lot of different moving parts that you have to keep track of. Or maybe you just didn't really even know what existed and you're just trying to get a sense of what actually do I have. You're just trying to figure out the whole thing and get some information.   What I want to do in this episode is go through some specific tactics to help you get a clearer financial picture of what you have and what you need so that you, and your attorney, and perhaps me if I'm working with you, you can make those informed financial decisions or at least the things in this episode, I want to help you start to figure out where to look so that you can start digging and start getting on the right path financially. I'm going to go through five tips, tools, tricks, whatever you want to call them, in order to help you get financial information in your divorce if you don't have direct access to it otherwise. Five things. The first one is ask. Second is check your tax return. The third is use your memory or any clues that you may have. The fourth is a subpoena. Finally, the last one is using a forensic accountant. The forensic accountant is going to be last because it's a combination of many of these things.   Let's jump in and go through these tactics. The first one, as I said, is you just need to ask. Sometimes if you ask the question, "Hey, can you provide the latest account statements for this retirement account, or this mortgage, or this whatever?" either through your attorney or in writing in some manner, your spouse will do so. I always encourage people to ask in writing with any specifics you may have because it's good to have a record of times if your spouse doesn't comply. It's nice to have a record of all of the times you've asked and all of the times they have not provided full and complete information because that will look bad to them later on. You always start with an ask. Asking is easy, but it doesn't mean you're going to get a response. We're going to go through the other areas and eventually some of the ones that will mandate that they provide a response.   The second thing is related to getting your access to your tax returns. One of the very common things I hear actually usually multiple times a week is that your spouse or that a spouse basically forged a signature on a tax return, and you're unsure if the information in the tax return is correct, if you have some additional liability you might not know about, if the taxes are reported correctly. You never signed them yourself. You don't really know what's in there, and you're worried about the contents of the tax report. The other thing that's relevant about a tax report is that assuming that everything is in order on those tax forms that you file, tax reports are one of the most useful areas to get a sense of what assets that you have. Here's what I mean. If there is a bank account somewhere that you might not know about, let's just say at Bank of America because it's the largest bank, I think, in the US, and if there's a bank account that you don't know about and it earns a dollar in interest over the course of a year, guess what? That bank account and that dollar of interest should show up on the tax forms. If it does not, there are some bigger issues. Oftentimes you will find a lot of assets you don't know about if you're used to knowing what you're looking for on a tax return.   Here's the challenge, of course. We're talking about getting access to information. The challenge is that how do you get your tax reports if you don't sign them, if you don't have a copy of them, your signature was forged, you don't have them handy laying around, and your spouse isn't being forthcoming about them? Actually, it's pretty easy. If you go to the IRS website, they have something called Get a Tax Transcript. If you type in get your tax transcript or transcript from the IRS on Google search or online, the IRS website will pop up, and they have a form you can provide to get a copy of your transcript and your taxes. You can get, I think, three to five years worth of your tax returns. They will provide either an electronic copy or a physical copy in the mail of those tax returns. Of course, you have to fill out some information to get those tax returns, but the point is if your name was signed on a joint tax return, it's a record that you can get from the IRS as a government service. It's free, and you can get copies of your tax returns by requesting that transcript.   The other thing that you can do is IRS offices are everywhere across the country. I've had many people do this. You can go to your IRS office, identify yourself, and request copies of the tax transcript. They will provide those for you if you go into the office and ask them in person. This is one of the most important ways. I think I say it on every call where someone asks, "Well, where do I get this information? I think I don't have a full picture of our accounts." I always say, any forensic accountant, any lawyer will ask this question as well, is start with the tax returns. From there you will be able to have a lot of clues that show up in a myriad of ways on the tax returns.   I could talk about this point for a while. Even with my personal taxes, I filed my taxes. Because I've traveled quite a bit and I have a few different addresses, I missed a document. I didn't sent it to my accountant, and I filed my taxes, and the IRS rejected them. I was like, "Oh, well what's going on?" They said, "Well, you're missing this form." What happened is I had to add in this form. I went and dug it out, and I added in this form. Then I resubmit my tax. The point being is all of these items that you might be looking for, these accounts, these interest retirement accounts, contributions, other investments, whatever, will show up or should show up on your tax form somewhere, particularly if you're looking for outside assets or outside investments that you don't know about. If they don't show up on your tax form, then it might not be there or your spouse is substantially cheating on their taxes, in which you have a lot of other considerations to think about. But let's move on.   You can get copies of your tax transcript. That's important. The third thing on my list is use your memory. If you have any inclination of accounts you may have had, be it investments, be it real estate, be it a bank account statement, be it something you remember coming in the mail, it could've been a credit card, it could've been anything, any account firm that you've seen, or have a clue about, or have thought of, try and jot down as much information about those things as you can because ultimately you might actually find a way to get access to that information and use those clues or breadcrumbs just from memory. Oftentimes you know more than you think you will. Then you're going to be able to use that information to help your attorney, me, your accountant to know where to look, and know who to ask, and where to start digging. Anything you can dig up by memory, or if you remember an email, or an account, or whatever, make a list of those and collect just as much information about them as you can because they're going to be useful for the next point, which is point number four.   This is the big one. This is the subpoena. I'm sure if you've ever watched a television show that talks about legal stuff, you've heard the term subpoena. Subpoena is a very important word and legal time. Basically it is a legal document that says that the person receiving it or company receiving it needs to act in a specific way or provide specific information. I'll give you an example of what this is. Let's return to Bank of America. Let's just say, "Hey, I remember some sort of account from Bank of America that we had for a few years. I don't have the account number of information on it, and my spouse isn't providing the information willingly." You can say or your attorney can say, "All right, well we're going to issue a subpoena to Bank of America to provide all of the records related to an account with this person's name on it." Bank of America will be legally obligated to provide that information to you. It's not always mandatory, but it's 99% of the time mandatory. You can fight a subpoena, but that only happens in very rare circumstances.   I have a case now where there is a real estate under question. One of the ways we got some information from them is we had to subpoena the building management company and everyone who was connected to this real estate. They were legally required to provide certain records about who owns it, what percentages, what financial information there was about this building. They provided that information, and now we have it and can make much better decisions during the divorce process. If you don't reply or your spouse doesn't reply to the subpoena, subpoenas come with a wide variety of potential punishments as part of the case. It can include fines, jail time, and many other things depending upon your state and what's going on. Subpoenas are a great way to force or require access to information.   The reason I put subpoena fourth on this list, and this list is in a particular order for a reason, is if you've asked about some accounts and maybe you get some information, you look at your tax returns and you get a little bit more information, you use your memory and you get some more information, with all of those clues if you're starting to put together this puzzle, it's big pizzle and you're starting to put it together piece by piece, ultimately a subpoena is that tool that attorneys can use to force you to get a much larger section or pieces of that puzzle, particularly when you know where to look. If you don't know where to look, your attorney can't subpoena, I guess he or she in theory could, Every bank in town or every financial institution in the country, we're talking about tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of different places.   What you need to do is be able to say, "Hey, I have this breadcrumb that I saw on my tax return on page eight. I have this breadcrumb from my memory that we had an account here at one point. I have this breadcrumb from whatever else that I think we need to follow up on, and there's more to the story here." Let's take that information and leverage a subpoena to see if we can get some more information out of it and get a more complete picture of those things.   Then the last thing on the list after subpoena is a forensic accountant. I have episodes on the podcast with forensic accountants. I have a large series in the store in the Quick Start Guide, as it's called, with information about finding hidden assets and how to use a forensic accountant. A forensic accountant is one who is an accountant whose expertise is taking all of these breadcrumbs and putting together a coherent financial picture. A forensic accountant can look at page 17, or I'll use an example. I have some clients with tax returns that are 180 pages because there's lots of supporting documentation. They have complicated financial pictures. A forensic accountant can take a 180-page tax return and look on page 79, line 16 and say, "Hey, there is something to this account. We need to do a lot more digging. Let's track down more information about it. Here's what I know from this account, and it's probably a big one."   A forensic accountant is specialized in doing those types of analysis and basically taking all of these breadcrumbs and putting together a clear and coherent picture to the best of their ability to help you track down all of these assets that may be missing, hidden, or some other way financially questionable in terms of things that are going on. It's a very specific niche of accounting that requires a good deal of expertise. It's not cheap, so one of the things I always say before hiring a forensic accountant is, "How much money do you think is realistically missing?" because I've seen forensic accountant bills go up into the tens of thousands of dollars easily, particularly when there's a lot of complication and it's hard to get things. If you have hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars at stake, then oftentimes it is well worth the investment. Think of all these things as an investment. If you have to invest some money to get a lot more money, then it can be worth it. A forensic accountant will ask for all of these tax returns, all of the things that you remember from memory, things from a subpoena. They might help your attorney craft an appropriate one. All of these things a forensic accountant, a good one, will ultimately put together a comprehensive picture for you when it comes to finding that money or assets that are missing.   The thing about this process, and I want to step back for a little bit, if assets are hidden, it's not a guarantee that you're going to find them. Even if you do find them, it's not a guarantee that you are entitled to those assets. It can be a complicated process, and there can be a lot more to it. But you do need to oftentimes know that these assets exist. The good thing I will say in the modern world, unless your spouse was a drug dealer or had a cash business, you can find a trace of assets everywhere from an email, from a wire transfer, from a public document, from whatever. There is a transaction record of everything. The question is how much it's going to cost you to get access to it, and is it really worth it for you. If your spouse is being forthcoming, and you think they're being forthcoming, and everything seems to make sense, you won't have to go down this path of getting a forensic accountant, and issuing subpoenas, and everything else. This process takes a very long time to put together, sometimes years, when it comes to all of these things. You have to really wonder and think about what the right decision is for you.   But if your spouse is not being forthcoming and there are a lot of things, and questions, and concerns that you have, I know because I talk to you every day on coaching calls, you ask me these things. Sometimes I'll talk to you and say, "Hey, that sounds a little suspicious. I think there's more to it. Let's dig in further." I say this as well. I try and be as honest and frank with you as I can. I'll say, "Look, from what you're telling me, I understand that some stuff is missing or this sounds a little bit questionable, but I don't know if it's worth it emotionally, financially, time-wise and everything else to drag on this process given what else you've told me to date. Maybe it's not the best idea to pursue this path." Whatever the case is, you have to think about what's right for you. I just want to give you the tools and the information so that you can think about these things and ultimately make the appropriate decision.   Just to summarize quickly again how to get access to information, I talked about five things. The first is you ask. Second is get copies of your tax return, and specifically your tax transcript. The third is use your memory. You probably know a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Fourth is a subpoena, which is issued by an attorney. You can ask your attorney about that and if it's appropriate for you. Then finally is employing the services of a forensic accountant. For many people, that may be an essential item. I've seen some great work from a forensic accountant that's just unbelievable, particularly where there is a lot of money and financial complications. Forensic accountants can be the essential part of this divorce process.  

Visit us at divorceandyourmoney.com for the #1 divorce resources in the USA and get personalized help. Learn about coaching services here. Thank you for listening! Find a transcript of this episode below. In this episode, we're going to discuss how to divorce a narcissist and when, or I should say at least survive the divorce process, and really come in in one piece, and come through this situation in the best position possible given a particularly difficult spouse to handle during the divorce process.   The reason I bring this topic up, I haven't talked about it in a while, and through the coaching calls I've had over the past few weeks, many of you are identifying that your spouses have some form of pretty severe or extreme narcissism, and are wondering, and have been asking, "Well, how do I deal with that, and what kind of strategies can I employ? What are some things that I should be thinking about?"   I'll say of course individual circumstances always matter, and if you want to talk about your case, we can do that via a coaching call, but I also want to give you some general tips and strategies and things to think about, and also for those who haven't really thought about narcissism with any depth and thinking about that in the context of your spouse, I want to go through some of the characteristics of what someone with narcissistic personality disorder, or what a narcissist is, and then also go through really just three very specific strategies to help you get through that situation.   Let's first start with what a narcissist is. The technical term, you heard me mention it earlier, is narcissistic personality disorder. It is a disorder, and it does have a clinical and psychological definition that's very specific, and I'm going to actually read off some of the symptoms of that. One of the things I do want to bring up though, is it's a continuum, so what that means is some people would score, if I wanted to keep the language simple, some people might score 100 out of 100, as they are an extreme narcissist, but some of us, including some of us listening, still have forms of narcissism, we all do, but we might be a five, or we might be a 10, or might be a 20, but your spouse could be an 80, or a 90, or 100, or I bet some of you think your spouse might be off the charts.   What I'm going to do, is I'm going to read the definition of some of the symptoms. These come from the Mayo Clinic website, and it says that, "People with narcissistic disorder can have some of the following," and I know some of you are going to be nodding your heads as you listen to these descriptions, so here we go.   So people with the disorder can have an exaggerated sense of self-importance, have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration, expect to be recognized as superior without achievements that warrant it, exaggerate their achievements and talents, be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty, or the perfect mate, believe they are superior, and only can associate with equally special people, monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior, expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations, take advantage of others to get what they want, have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others, be envious of others, and believe others envy them, have an arrogant, or I should behave, in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful, and pretentious, insist on having the best of everything.   That is the first set of characteristics. Believe it or not there are more, but I know just from that reading, some of you have a pretty clear sense and probably know where those behaviors come in with your spouse. Maybe it's not your spouse, and that wouldn't be relevant to the divorce context, but I know we all have friends or might know some people in popular culture who you can clearly identify these characteristics with. I will not name any names, but I think it's pretty obvious for some.   Now, the definition from the Mayo Clinic also has some other characteristics they say, and it says, "People with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism," that's very important, "and they can become inpatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment."   Now, I'm just going to give you all a little insight into me. That one definitely falls in my category. I do love special treatment, and that one's me. But anyways, other things is that they have significant interpersonal problems and feel slighted, react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person or make themselves appear superior, have difficultly regulating emotions and behavior, experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change, feel depressed and moody because they feel short of perfection, and have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability, or humiliation.   That's a lot. That is a ton of different things, but in conversations I have with you every day, I know a lot of you are living with spouses that share these characteristics. These are daily behaviors that you are living with, and you're trying to figure out how this process is going. One of the extra challenges with someone who shares these narcissistic characteristics is that most narcissists don't think that anything is wrong with them.   One of the challenges with diagnosing narcissistic personality disorder is someone who is a narcissist will not sit down to be diagnosed, and they won't think that anything is wrong. In the divorce process in particular, which is what we're talking about, it really drags on the divorce process, because everything becomes bigger than it needs to be.   Now, while I'm not saying that the issues that you're facing in divorce are small, they are big, but what happens is usually you, the person who are listening, has pretty reasonable expectations, and needs, and wants during this process, whereas dealing with the narcissist can be just complicated, and their expectations are the opposite of unreasonable. Every time you force them to give an inch or ask that they give an inch, they react in ... they overreact, I should say, kind of in an out of control manner, and it just becomes a much bigger fight than necessary. Compounding that is I like to say ... I had this funny thing. One of my first jobs I had when I was working on Wall Street, I was a financial advisor at a very good firm, and there were lots of financial advisors working there. I noticed something very interesting that applies to the narcissist in the divorce context.   What was interesting is the personality of the financial advisors, their clients would also share a similar personality to that advisor. What do I mean by that? So there would be a financial advisor who was very ADD, always wanted things really snappy, was kind of all over the place, and when their clients called, their clients were the same way, very ADD, a little bit all over the place, kind of snappy, and that was interesting.   Then conversely is there would be an advisor there, and he would be very thoughtful, very deep thinker, very analytical, relatively quiet, not kind of a big sales personality, and when that person's clients called, that's what they were like, the clients. They were generally very thoughtful, very analytical, very deep thinkers. It was interesting because I was sitting around, I don't know, 20 or 30 very successful financial advisors, and in general, all of their clients matched their personalities, and it was one of the weirdest things I had noticed.   Why do I bring this up? Well, in the divorce context, it turns out that narcissists tend to find lawyers with those same personality traits. What could have been even a reasonable process becomes that much harder, because not only is the spouse suffering on the scale of narcissism to an extreme degree, but their attorneys are often further complicating that situation rather than helping it.   It turns out, at least in my experience, I can't speak for everyone, but oftentimes, those with narcissistic personality disorder tend to have very narcissistic attorneys who are just a pain and a half to deal with. I can't stand them, to be quite frank. Least favorite people to deal with in the legal process.   I don't mind a mean attorney, I don't mind any form of attorney except for the narcissistic ones. I can deal with the mean ones, but those who are just full of themselves and have clients who are equally that level are the biggest pain. I think if you were to talk to any very good divorce attorney, they would say the exact same thing. Every town and every city across America, there are attorneys who share these capabilities, and also attract those very frustrating clients who are probably like your spouse if you're listening to this.   Now, all that said, let's shift gears a little bit. What do you do? What are the strategies ... and I'm really just going to go through three ... strategies that you can put into place to deal with a narcissist during the divorce process? I like to only discuss three strategies, because if you focus on these three things, you will be focused on the right things, and actually, I use the word, "focus," because one of the challenges with dealing with a narcissist is small things become big, and you can quickly lose sight of the big picture, or as I like to say, "You can't see the forest for the trees."   I only want you to focus on a few things, and if you focus on those few things, you will get through in the grand scheme of things in the best position possible. So what are those three things? The first is document everything and get organized. The second is make sure you get an experienced attorney, and the third is you're the CEO. Remove emotions from this process. Now, I'm going to get into each one of these three things, and intentionally, this is a little bit longer episode, because I think it's a very important one, and I'm going to go through these three topics. First one, document everything and get organized. Even though you're dealing with a narcissistic spouse, it's only one part of the process.   You still have everything that you're dealing with in divorce. Your spouse's personality characteristics are just something on top of that. It's a little frustrating, but you still have to deal with all the custody issues, hidden assets, unwillingness to compromise, trying to come up with a settlement agreement.   One of the things that really helps during this process is staying ... not only staying organized, but documenting everything that's going on, and everything that's happening. When I say, "document everything that's happening," is it can be overwhelming trying to keep up with all of the major events in your divorce process, particularly with a narcissistic spouse. Sometimes I'll talk to you or work with you over a long period of time, and you'll have 100 specific examples of things that have happened.   Of those 100 examples, it's just really hard to keep track, like what's going on, because you're living with these things, but we're trying to help you from the outside, and trying to catch up on these stories, and make sure that we do the best we can for you. So here's what I suggest you do when dealing with a narcissistic spouse, is you put together a timeline, a very, very simple timeline in chronological order, of the things that are happening. If you have evidence of those things, you supply the evidence of them. I really mean one or two pages of just the main things in the divorce.   What would I do? I would take a document, or a spreadsheet, or write it by hand, you put the date. So you're going to put June 4th and the year, and you're going to say, "Spouse yelled at me for this, and this happened," or whatever. Then you're going to say, "June 18th, X amount of money was suspiciously withdrawn from bank account. Unsure of where it went." And you're going to put behind that, is you're going to put a bank statement with that withdrawal on June ... I forgot what date I already said, we'll just say June 20th.   Then you're going to go to July, and say, "In July kids were with spouse. They did not eat for 18 hours according to them. Came home hungry, no food, and were unhappy," and you're going to write that down. You might say, "On July 17th," and whatever happened. You might say, "Police were called." Sometimes that happens with many of you. You'll say, "Here's the police copy of the police report."   Whatever the different things are, I'm just making up those examples off the top of my head, but you'll have a very simple timeline with the date, one sentence or two sentences of what happened, and if you have evidence of it, any evidence of what happened. Might be text messages, might be photos, might be bank statements, might be any number of things that could have happened, and you're just going to put that together in one file, and keep it organized.   One of the biggest challenges for your attorney or for me when it comes to helping you through this process is not only ... The most frustrating thing about dealing with a narcissist is it can be very isolating for you, and very overwhelming for us trying to help you. The goal is ... and I'm going to talk about each of those.   Let me talk about overwhelming for a second. So many things are going on, it's hard for me or hard for your attorney to keep things straight sometimes in terms of all of these different things that happen. If you have proof of them, if they're relevant for the divorce process, if they're he said she said type things, and we just need to keep them in order. So maybe we show this to a judge later, or maybe something's not relevant, or maybe it is particularly relevant, but we need to be able to keep those things straight.   The other thing that's relevant about that, is I said it can be very isolating. The other thing that's particular ... many things are particularly frustrating with dealing with a narcissist, but almost universally, narcissists are loved except by their family, or I should say their spouse in particular. I know that everyone who might interact with your spouse might love that person. They might think, "Oh, Johnny's great," or, "Oh, Jill is awesome. Love getting a beer with Jill," or, "Have a great relationship with Johnny, I always say hi to him. I know he's the best." Always walking around the restaurant, or walking around town greeting people, and everyone knows who they are, and very well liked, but when they come home, they're a terror to you, and they don't treat you well, and it's awful, and it's very isolating, because you might feel that people don't believe that this person is actually not as good as everyone thinks.   One of the ways to combat that is to really prepare yourself, and document all of these things that are happening. If you have evidence of these things that are happening, and documented clearly, it's easy to change the narrative in this divorce process about who this person is, and really get the truth about them out, and advocate yourself and fight back. Narcissists are often bullies, and they like to yell and scream and everything else, but there is a truth that is happening, and you can expose that truth when you have the appropriate evidence together. A lot about point number one, document everything, get organized. That is crucial in this process. Point number two is get an experienced attorney. Now, I talk about attorneys a lot on this show, and I don't have a ton of additional things to add, but I do want to talk about an attorney in the context of the divorce process.   Now, my last episode was how to find an attorney if you don't know anyone, so listen to that. Also in the store, if you get the Quick Start Guide, I have a big section on how to manage and improve your relationship with your attorney. Even with some of the coaching clients, particularly those I work with over a longer basis, I'll help you strategize, well, what's the best communication process with this attorney, and how do we do it effectively?   What I wanted to bring up though, is if you follow my resources on picking an attorney, one of the questions if you know, and if you're listening to this episode, doing some additional research, and you figure out that your spouse really has some pretty severe narcissistic tendencies, well, that really comes into play as you pick your attorney.   In particular, in your initial consultation, you should be asking ... well, one is you should have this beautiful timeline that's clearly documented, and you should say, "Look, I'm dealing with a narcissistic spouse," one question you should ask, "Have you dealt with spouses like this before? Do you have strategies in place? How do you feel like we should approach this given the information we have? If this were to go in front of a judge, what do you think? Will the cost of this divorce be more because of the nature of my spouse? Can you tell me how things would change, or what I should be thinking about? Will the length of time be longer because of my spouse? If my spouse weren't like this, would you have a different approach?"   These are kind of questions that you should be asking your attorney during your initial consultation or your early consultations, because it can be very relevant as you think about who you hire as your divorce attorney. Now, I know some of you will look for attorneys that specialize in narcissism, or will have it on their website. I'll tell you this, that's probably not the best method. Most attorneys that I know that are very good that I work with who are super experienced, they are not ... they don't necessarily have a section of their website dedicated to narcissistic spouses. That said, I guarantee you, they have all dealt with them all the time, because that is just part of this process, and part of what they do. Just because someone's website doesn't say it, I wouldn't say that's a cause for concern. I would just look for a generally very good, very competent attorney, and I promise you, they will have seen it dozens or hundreds of times, unfortunately.   So the second thing was getting an experienced attorney. Now, the third thing is you are the CEO of your divorce, now remove your emotions from this process. Much easier said than done, but let me tell you what I'm getting at. Whether you are a stay at home mom, or dad, or maybe you're the one who was out working, it doesn't really matter.   If you were a stay at home parent and you've been running the household this whole time for the last two years, or 25 years, whatever it is, you have been the CEO, the Chief Executive Officer of your household. If you've been the one at work every day for the last two or 25 years, however long you've been married, you have been the financial earner out after it, earning the money, and earning the lifestyle.   Whatever the case is, you have a lot more experience and a lot more capabilities than you probably give yourself credit for. When it comes to dealing with a narcissist, or a narcissistic spouse, one of the things that you should be doing is really treating this divorce process as if you are the CEO of this divorce process, which you are. You have many more skills, regardless of what your spouse might say to you. Oftentimes they're trying to belittle you, or they're berating you, or they're just a terror at home.   I get it, but it doesn't lower your individual value, and it actually ... you have a lot more to it than you think, and a lot more skills than you think. When it comes to deciding what the best courses of action are during the divorce, you need to take that individual person out of it to the extent you can. It's almost impossible to remove emotions from the process, but go to therapists, talk to friends. I give lots of different advice in this podcast or via the Quick Start Guide in the store, or via coaching calls on this subject, but the point is, is when you try and decide what's best for you, you need to treat it through the lens of, "All right, I have to ... this divorce process will end one day."   It might not feel like it now. For some of you it might be a few months, and for others it might be a few years, but whatever that time period is, it will be over at some point. Really, your main goals should be, "Well, when this process is over, I'm going to have 10, or 30, or 50, or 70 years life left ahead of me. How do I make the smartest decisions today regarding my finances, regarding my kids, regarding my family today, that will set me up for the next 10, or 20, or 50, or 70 years of life?"   When you think about those decisions, you have to take the emotions out of them. You have to think, "Well, what are the dollars and cents? What are realistically the best options for me, my children? If I were a third party thinking about this, and if I were giving myself advice 10 years from now, or 20 years from now, what would I say to myself today as I go through this process, or what advice should I be getting from a third party that will really ... If I were just the boss of this process, the CEO of this process, what decisions would I be making to get me through it?" If you make decisions from emotions, your emotions can easily lead you astray during this time, but if you make your decisions through logic, you can start to cut through all the fluff, cut through the bullying, cut through the rough nights, cut through all of this, and really focus on, "Hey, here's what I want. Here are my three goals," or, "Here are my five goals." I've talked about goals on this in the podcast.   "Here's what I want for my future. I know he or she is going to say this or that, or whatever in this process, but that doesn't matter. Here's what I'm focused on, here's what I'm going to fight for for myself, here's what I need to get through this process in one piece. That is what I'm going to fight for, regardless of what my spouse decides to do or tries to do, because I'm the CEO. I'm the boss of this process, and I'm going to put myself in the best position possible for my future, and for my kids' future."   When you start to adopt that attitude, you will really shift the way that you think about dealing with divorce with a narcissist, and it will be a much better position for you for the future, and for the long-term in setting up things the way that you need to set them up. You will be putting yourself in a position to fight back, and to make the smartest decisions you can to put yourself into a position to get you into a good spot not just for the next six months or the next year, but really for the rest of your life.   So as I said, three pieces of advice for dealing with a narcissist. The first is document everything and get extra organized. The second is make sure you get an experienced attorney who has the knowledge and strategic thought and thinking, and knows how to handle a narcissist, and the third is remember that you are the CEO of this process, and you need to treat yourself as such. Try to use logic and smart thinking over emotions during this process, even though it is a tough time for you unquestionably, but know that if you think about it, the smartest way possible, you will get through this process in one piece, and you will get yourself through this process in a position to set yourself up for a great future.    

An introduction to Julie's new podcast, SEX DRUGS + DISABILITY! I'm a 4x cancer survivor that's been to hell and back. I'm one of those unusual people who loves talking about taboo topics. Sometimes I'll be podcasting on my own. Some episodes I interview my awesome friends to talk about sex, drugs, disability and more!

Jake Flores is a comedian, podcaster, and an old friend from back in Austin. We started comedy around the same time. Jake has always been funny, honest, and original. Sometimes I'll wake up and see that half the internet is mad at him. We talk about socialism, outrage culture, the tarot, and how people lose themselves in the pursuit of fame. Follow Jake on Twitter: @feraljokes Listen to POD DAMN AMERICA: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/poddamnamerica/id1271019505?mt=2 Listen to MR. CLEO: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mr-cleo/id1213316478?mt=2 Support this podcast by visiting the Rainbow Brainskull store: http://rainbowbrainskull.com http://raminnazer.com This podcast was recorded at Rainbow Brainskull Studios in Los Angeles, CA.

I've gone through points in my life where I've been very negative or very positive. Sometimes I'll be in a negative point longer than others, and sometimes I'm living in those happy vibes. I've been trying to figure out what it is that's making me happy - so here are my thoughts on how to be positive :D

The Foreword. Sometimes I'll share passages from books I enjoy in my life. Something to change it up.

Click to See Francis' Blog QuestionsWhat is your disorder? *CFS (and PCOS) Please read Frances' blog post about CFS at her blog Fancy Like That and follow all of her social media I spent close to stalker-like hours on her Pinterest page.At what age did your disorder become a daily issue? *24Who were you before your illness became debilitating? *I was a quote-unquote 'normal' twenty-something with a lot of plansWhat would you do if you were not dealing with your invisible illness? *I would probably be working hard on my career and I would spend most of my spare time painting and be decorating our new house (instead of directing my partner to do it from the sofa...)What would you like people to know about your daily life? *Although it may seem like fun and games to be permanently having a sick day, it gets boring fast... especially when you don't always even have the brain capacity to do things like binge-watch great TV shows and read books that have been on your to-read pile forever. I'm currently working on a programme with my CFS clinic to raise my energy levels and while that is working it also means I have to take 15-minute breaks every half hour, no matter what, and I think that can be difficult for people to understand too.What would make living and moving in the world easier for you? *More energy! Ha. But seriously... since diving (slash being dunked) into the world of invisible illnesses I think the biggest thing that would make a difference for me is just more understanding - by doctors and the general public - of invisible illnesses and of how to talk to the people dealing with them.Do you have any life hacks? *Join a Facebook group! I wasn't sold on going to the support group my doctor found because of the travel and general energy usage it would involve, but I've felt a lot less alone since finding so many places online where I can talk to other people who have the same issues as me and actually understand what I mean when I say I'm having a bad day etc. I'm also really into bullet journaling at the moment - it's a great creative outlet for me (although it doesn't have to be decorative to work!) and I find it so helpful to have everything laid out in ways that make sense to me.What kind of support do you get from family or friends? *I'm incredibly lucky to have a bunch of amazingly supporting friends and family and my boyfriend, who I live with. The best kind of support is when people say that they've read up on your illness or ask questions that show they're really trying to understand. Having said that, I also really value the friends I have who don't bring it up at all unless I do - sometimes you need to be taken out of the chronic illness bubble and gossip about so-and-so's latest Instagram post or whatever and forget about everything for a while.Have you ever had someone not believe you have an invisible illness because of your appearance? *Not yet... and touch wood never. I've had people say to me that I look 'better' or 'well', but in context, they generally mean in comparison to when they last saw me (usually this only happens when I bother to put makeup on and/or do something with my hair other than my now-signature pineapple bun)Has this been a positive or negative experience? *It doesn't make me feel great, but I know that they mean well - I just need to work out a way to tell them that I'd rather not hear it without being rude!How has your invisible illness affected your relationships? *I've definitely had to change the way that I think about certain relationships. I'm usually someone who takes on the 'Organiser' role in friendship groups, and I've had to tell myself to step back from that because I know that logistics and things are going to drain my energy. And in my relationship with my boyfriend, I have to work hard not to feel like we've gone from equal partners to carer and patient sometimes, especially on my worse days when he not only has to go to work while I stay home, but also comes home and does all of the cooking and cleaning, plus looks after all of our pets. And when he goes away - on holiday with his friends, or for work - if it's for more than a couple of days I have to have my parents come to stay with me or go to them because it's too much to try and keep myself and the house going on my own for too long. I think for me the key is talking about that kind of stuff with the people involved and reminding myself constantly that they're doing it because they love me and not because they think I'm incapable. With my boyfriend, we've recently started having set-aside 'date nights' in the week, which is something I always thought was a bit cheesy before, but now it's good for us as a time to really spend time as a couple.Is there anything you are afraid to tell even the people closest to you? *Sometimes I'll try to hide how bad I'm feeling - emotionally and/or physically - but I'm trying to avoid doing that... it always comes out anyway, and it's not good for me to bottle things up!Does the fact that your disease is invisible change how healthcare professionals treat you? *Yes and no. I'm in a weird place where CFS/ME is sort of 'in vogue' at the moment - there have been a few features about it on the news and radio recently in the UK, so my doctors are keen for me to understand that they understand. However, I do find it difficult sometimes to go to appointments alone, especially when my brain fog is particularly active, and I've had difficulty in the pat conveying that to doctors.What is your best coping mechanism? *Humour, usually of the gallows variety, and listening to podcasts - usually about true crime.What are you the most fearful of and hopeful for in the future? *I'm hopeful that I'll find a way to manage my symptoms and that I can turn this whole period of my life into something positive and productive. I'm fearful of having a relapse into worse symptoms, and of my loved ones getting bored of my limitations.What is your favorite swear word?Fuck (ideally followed by 'you', 'it', or 'off')Is there anything you want to make sure we talk about during the interview? Like an organization you want to promote or something specific that you deal with.I'd love you to push my blog if possible!! I'm planning a series of CFS-related posts alongside my usual blatherWhat is the hardest and/or best lesson your condition has taught you?It's made me very aware of my privileges when it comes to healthcare and having a support network, and spending so much time stuck in my own head has also made me get to know myself a lot better, too!What is the best purchase under $100 that helped your lifeMy Netflix subscription, a decent firm pillow, and bed socksA List Of Our Favorite Shows To StreamCrazy Ex-GirlfriendEscape To The CountryDr. WhoLark Rise To CandlefordFixer UpperJonathon CreekOther ReccomendationsGlowforgeFacebook Support GroupsInstagramPinterestFlareDown Join The Spoonies & Subscribe Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. Email Address Sign Up We respect your privacy. Thank you! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Welcome to episode 366 of Hit the Mic with The Stacey Harris. As I talked about last week, we talked about the fact that it's a little bit launch season. People are launching. So one of the things I wanted to talk about today is what you need to do, on social, and really what you need to do about your social, before you launch something. This could be a new program. This could be a new offering. This could be a new opt in. This could be a new podcast. Whatever it is that you're launching, I want to talk about some things that I want to do in regards to your social, before you open up Facebook and say, "Hey guys I have a new XYZ, go buy it please." All right? All right. Number one, build your plan. I know, and you're going to notice a lot in these next three steps, or this one and the following two steps rather, that it sounds a lot like planning your launch. I want you to apply the same logic to your social. This is called building a social media strategy, and it's absolutely critical. So number one, build your plan. Know exactly what networks you're using, what kind of targeting your using. If you're targeting organic posts as well as your ads. What kind of content to share? When do you share? Where do you share it? How frequently do you share it? Where do you pull your other people's content from? Built that all out into a plan. This does not have to take weeks, and months, and years. We build them for clients in the matter of about 10 days, because we're usually doing more than one, and we have other things going on. You could probably sit down and do yours in a couple of days. Maybe even a day. I'm not asking you to build out content. You're not gonna write content at this point, but what you're going to look at is, who is my audience. What are my networks? What are my types of content? The reason I want you to do this prelaunch, even if you have a general strategy in place, is now you're looking at a very specific topic. So maybe you're launching a new podcast all about your subject, and you're gonna have really killer guests. Well, for the two weeks before the podcast launch, I would be featuring other people's content, from exclusively, those first few guests. That way, I'm getting my audience excited about hearing from this person. I'm giving my audience name recognition on whoever it is that going to be on the show. If this is a program, maybe you're building a program all around counting Macros. Maybe you're a health coach, or a personal trainer, and you are launching a program all about Macros. Great, I want to see Macro content. I want to see content about Macronutrients, Micronutrients, calculating them. I want to see content from you, and I want to see content from other sources. I want to see conversational content. So just engagement focused content, around Macros. Maybe you are a business coach, and you have a killer sales call training coming up. It's all about executing a successful sales call. I want to hear, I went to see rather, content about sales calls. Facebook lives about sales call tips, podcasts, blog posts, guest posts, other people's content, everything is going to be around and supporting sales calls. That doesn't mean everything is gonna say, "This is how you do a sales call." But this is how sales calls make for a smoother sales process. This is the one fundamental tip to getting more sales calls. This is about doing more with sales calls. This is about best time of day to do a sales call. I don't know, whatever it is. How many sales calls do you do a day? Those kind of things. Do you see what I'm saying? It's focused, and that comes from really building a plan. Also, really cool thing is when you build a plan, guess what, you know exactly what to do, and exactly when to do it. Is never going to be a point where you run into, "I have nothing to say today." And that's horrifying when you're at a launch. The reality is, launches are exhausting. So as little thought as you can put into the day to day, of getting things out, the better, because your brain is going to be doing 847 other things. It doesn't matter how much help you have. Okay? So build your plan. Number two, map out your content. This is where I actually want you to start constructing some of your posts. I always work backwards, especially in a launch window. So I'll say ... Let's just pull a real-life example here. We have Backstage. Hit the Mic Backstage open year round. It's Evergreen. It's always available. Right? That awesome. It's fantastic. It means I'm in launch mode constantly, essentially, because there's no cart close. There's no sort of ups and downs of push, push, push, chill. No, it's always kind of a certain level of, "Yes, this thing is here." So each month, we kind of focus around what's going to be new in backstage. That's a lot of what I'll talk about on the podcast, and my Facebook Lives. Now, because it's open all the time, it is not as constant. It is not as ... This month inside Hit the Mic Backstage, we have a four ad, ad strategy to reengage a stale audience. That's the brand-new training that came in backstage. This whole month isn't about Facebook ads. However, we did that because it's launch season. So a lot of the podcasts this month are kind of about launch stuff. That training would fit very well if you are listening to this show, because we're talking about launching. That's something we do pre prelaunch, is we run those campaigns. So it fits in maybe a less obvious way. If that makes sense. But anyways, so what we'll do, is we'll run content around that theme. We've got that new training up, that's what were going to do. Or sometimes, we'll pick an older training. One of the most popular reasons for people joining Backstage, is there's an entire training on Facebook ads in there. Power editor, boosted posts, ads managers, targeting, pixels, all that stuff is inside Facebook Guide, which sits inside of Hit the Mic Backstage, which is fantastic. So sometimes we'll say, "You know what, we don't have a new training on Facebook ads this month, but we're talk all about Facebook ads. We're gonna put out a new opt in, and that's gonna be our subject." And guess what? That so we talk about every Tuesday on the podcast. It all feeds to the new opt in. We kind of do a faux launch around it, a soft kind of launch around it. Again, I can do that, because I've mapped out the content. So if I say, "All right, we're gonna do a new opt in. We're gonna go a full on Facebook ads, and we're really gonna promote that part of the community." I would actually map out what podcasts are we doing, and I would base that on the Facebook Guide that's inside of Backstage. So I'm working backwards from that Facebook Guide, because that's essentially what I'm promoting. Even though it's through a membership site, that's essentially the program I'm promoting. So I worked back from that program, through content. I worked back through that content to social. I worked back through that social, to what part of these posts are gonna need more ad focus, and what can happen really organically. Where can I find support pieces for that? That's how we map out our strategy. So this doesn't mean full on writing every piece of content, but I do outline the content, and I will highlight what the social is going to be. Sometimes I'll put example posts in, especially if we're doing this for somebody else. I'll put in, here's sort of the six kinds of things I would suggest. You can basically model these for the rest of your content, so that's what we do. That kind of gives you an idea of how we map it out. Number three thing I want you to do, is set your budget. One of the biggest Facebook ads mistakes we see, is people building Facebook ads, and then going, "Oh my God, I spent $500. I have no idea how that happened." It's a double whammy. A, you didn't set a budget, and B, you didn't then create ads that supported that budget. So if you have a smaller budget, your ad targeting needs to be tighter. If you have a smaller budget, I suggest leaning hard on look-alike audiences, and custom audiences based on your audience that you have already. So your email list, your Facebook page, engagement on your Facebook page, video views, likes, comments, those kind of things. But also, look-alike audiences that look like your audience that's already purchased things. So one of the things we do to keep our ad budget down here, is we actually have a look-alike audience based on members of the Backstage community, because guess what, if you already bought Backstage, you're already a member. I want more of you. Right? So I build an audience based on what those people look like. Then we do refine that a little further, because sometimes it can look like not at all what I want. So we'll refine that with their interested in certain things, or they're between a certain age demographic, they live in a certain place. I'm in the states, and I speak English. Unfortunately, it's the only language I speak at this point. Something I'm going to actively work on changing here, very soon, because it drives me crazy, but that's neither here nor there. But I only speak the one language, so I can only help people that speak the same language I do, unfortunately. So that needs to be in my targeting, because I would love to have a look-alike audience that spoke French. However, I would not be able to help them, because I do not yet speak French. All right? So when you have a smaller budget, lean on those kind of things. Lean on those kind of targeting. When you have a larger budget, you can open up that refining a little bit more. Now your language thing should probably still be on point, but your age demographic could be a little wider. Your location demographic, as long as the language is on point, your location demographic could be a little wider, if that makes sense for your program. Now, on the flip side of that, if you are a local brick-and-mortar shop, we have a client who has seriously, a three mile demographic for their locations, so that's pretty tight. So we go a little wider on age. We go a little wider, and do men and women. We refine other places like income level, and job, and family status, and things like that, because his location is finite. It is a strict sort of border. You may be running into the same thing, and thinking, okay, well that's gonna narrow my audience down to the point where it's just impossible. No, play with the other points. Target in other ways, to make sure you're getting the right people in that location demographic. Again, the narrower you are, the smaller your budget. The smaller your budget is rather, the narrower you need to be. If you have a little more money to play with, your budget can be a little wider. My other thought is you have a bigger budget, create more ad sets. It doesn't have to be that you open one audience up to a larger number, a larger spectrum. It could be that now I have some extra money to test with. Or, now I can increase my daily budget, and maximize getting in front of more of those people. All right? Okay. So those are the three things I want you to think about, as far as social media is concerned, with your launch. Oh, actually, one more thing, bonus tip. When you are thinking about your budget for social media, for your ad campaigns, A Facebook ads, not the only ads in town. Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, all have ad platforms, Pinterest. So depending on your market, Facebook ads may not be the only option. In fact, some cases they might not even be the best option. I will say, four out of five times they're the best option, but in some cases they're not. So pay attention to that. Look at maybe splitting your budget across a couple of places. But also, if you want to hire someone, you need to factor that into your budget. I have had so many potential clients get on the phone with me and say, "Okay, so yeah, I've got $1,000 ads budget, and I want you to run these ads over the course of four weeks. I'll just send you the $1,000." They didn't budget for what it would cost for me to run that campaign for them. On the flip side of that, I have people who contact me who say, "Okay, I have XYZ budget to pay you." And they don't factor in their ads cost on top of that. I don't know a single Facebook ads person, anyone who runs Facebook ads, in fact we don't even run them anymore, we refer them out, but I don't know of anybody who runs Facebook ads where the ads budget is included in their cost. There may be someone. I'm not saying they don't exist, but you need to factor in if you want to have someone else running your ads, or even managing your social for you. Factor in that cost, in addition to the cost the actual ads. All right? All right. If you would like to join us Backstage, and you would, because it's the killer, awesome upgrade to this very show, and you liked this show, or you would not still be listening, in theory. Seriously, if you don't like this show, and you're still listening ... Anyways. Anyways, it's the upgrade to this. It's the next step for the show. So join us over at hitthemicbackstage.com if you have not already. If you are already a member, don't forget, we do have an Ask Me Anything office hours coming up. Plus we've got the Facebook group, and the VIP community, where you can ask questions anytime. So if you're already a member, which I suspect you are, I trust that you are, I hope, head on over there and join us. I think that's all I've got for you today. If you have any questions, at any time, hit me up on Facebook or Twitter. I will see you next Tuesday.

Welcome to Episode 353 of Hit the Mic With the Stacey Harris. I feel an intense need to sing school's out for summer right now because my mom did every year when I got out of school. The kid's officially on summer break and I am also on summer break. Now full disclosure, I'm totally working right now, however, content for the summer has been created. It's done, it's ready, it's waiting for you. It's waiting for you because I want to be able to focus on, that's right, summer stuff. Now I am totally working this summer, with the exception of a ten day trip we're taking in July. I am totally in the office. My schedule looks different in the summer, I tend to work weekends and take days off during the week because one of the perks of our flexibility is that I don't have to try and entertain my kid when literally everyone else is trying to get their kid out of the house. We tend to go into hibernation on the weekends but it's lots of trips to the beach and Disneyland and shopping and movies and bowling and Dave and Buster's and all the things, plus a vacation in there. How do I get content out consistently? How do I deliver you guys the value that I want to deliver to you, that I want you to have available to you? Well I plan for it, so today we're going to talk about things, how I sort of manage to get all of this done in the time constraints of running my business per usual in the spring, getting ready for summer. I do the same thing in the fall, usually in November I'm a little bit nutty because I'm getting ready to take December off. I, again full disclosure, am working this summer. We've got Backstage members, we've got management clients, we've got coaching and consulting clients, I've got spots available for strategy build if you're interested. I've got some coaching spots available if you're interested, so I'm totally working, it just looks different and it's less hours and to make that happen I work ahead. These are the three things I do. Number one, I repurpose the crap out of my content. Meaning, we're covering things on Facebook Lives that we're covering on the podcast. We've built the system of repurposing all the time so I'm never in a place where I'm like, oh crap, I've got to get all this stuff done. Guest posts go out based on transcripts from this show. Facebook Lives are often topics straight up pulled from the show, to be honest with you and vice versa. Sometimes I'll test something on Facebook Live and see what kind of traction it gets with you guys before I pull it in here. I'm repurposing, I'm not reinventing, I'm reusing, repackaging. The same can be done with offerings and I just, we just last month launched two new funnels, sales funnels, full disclosure, they're sales funnels, opt-in kind of things. We've got brand new Facebook ads and a brand new launch podcast training. Well guess what? Those are things that existed already. I merely repackaged them, I updated them. I made them look better, I made sure the information was on point and made sure the email sequence was better. I improved it but I didn't reinvent it. It's not brand new, I never thought of this, I have to have a brand new idea every time. No, it's something that's been successful that I made better so it can be more successful and deliver more value so repurpose. Repurpose, repurpose, repurpose, I cannot say it enough. Literally, I could say 1,000 more times, it still wouldn't be enough. You've got to repurpose your content. Use what you've got. I'm willing to bet, there's one person who will download this episode of the show and they're going to realize that they have an opt-in they created that they've never used. Better yet, an entire program they created and they never sold to anybody because they've never told anyone it existed. I know you guys do it, I've done it too, so look in your Google Drive, your Dropbox, wherever you store this stuff, look what you've got hidden away and do something with it. This was actually, in August it will be two years since we actually launched Hit The Mic Backstage and so July of this year, so next month, is the two year anniversary of when I got the idea to launch Hit the Mike Backstage and guess what? Hit the Mic Backstage, the membership site, my favorite part of my business, the way that I love engaging with you, the next step after this, if you love this podcast, get your butt in Backstage because you'll love it there too. It's this plus. It all came from me having a less than successful launch in the spring, wanting to do something to up some revenue numbers to hit my Q3, my quarter three goals financially, but I didn't know what I was going to launch. I really didn't want to create anything new. I didn't have time or the energy to build something new. It was summer break and I was working less and how was I going to do that? Well I had launched this program, or this package of webinars about six months to a year before that called the Rockstar Bundle. It was, I think, 12 webinars, because I take my webinars down a couple days after we do them live, that I literally just had sitting in Google Drive. They were just sitting there. I had done nothing with them post webinar. They were just sitting in Google Drive. I had sold them as a package of trainings and people loved them. They bought them up like crazy, so I was telling my accountability buddy and business BFF that I had these trainings and so maybe I should just relaunch this Rockstar Bundle and I'll sell that again. She said, "Well is that what you want to do?" I was like, "Oh, I don't know." She goes, "Well what do you really want to do?" I go, "I'd really love to turn it into a membership site, because that would just be killer. I've always, always wanted one, but I just don't have the audience for it." She went, "Well that's dumb. You totally have the audience for it." She reminded me of the advice I give people all the time, which is, it doesn't matter how big your list is, it doesn't matter how engaged your list is, and so guess what? I repurposed not only all of these free trainings I had done, but a package of trainings I had sold before and that built my membership site, which is the core offering in my business at this point. It's the thing to join as far as a passive, not passive, because it takes a lot of my attention, but as far as a recurring revenue, as far as a non-service based, a non-one on one attention based, it fills that hole, that revenue source is the Backstage membership. It came from repurposed content, content that I had already been repurposed once before, so look at what you have sitting in Drive, look at what you have sitting in Dropbox, look at the things that you've thought about doing or have created and finish them, package them, do something with them. All right? That's my rant about repurposing in a way I have not done before, so it's a new repurpose rant. I repurposed my rant, do you see what I did there guys? Walking the talk. Number two, invest. I mentioned that this year we're going to be taking a ten day vacation, we're going to Jamaica. I'm very excited, I've never been to Jamaica. We have, there's WiFi at our resort, but it's not, I don't really want to deal with work for ten days. This will be the first time I'm ever taking a legit unplugged vacation. My phone will go with me, my laptop in all honesty will probably go with me, in case the wheels fall off of anything but I'm not working at all. That's not the plan. Really my laptop is going so I can watch movies on the plane. That's what it's going to come down to. It's a long plane ride guys. It really is, for me, completely being unplugged for ten days for the first time. A big, big, big way I'm doing that is, I've invested in support, I've invested in help. We have not just Charles, because he's going with me on vacation, so he's not helpful at that point. Well he's helpful, but like in a carry my bags kind of way, not a check my email way. We actually have a VA team that supports us now. They joined us in January, I highly recommend them. If you want to know their names, let me know. Admin Ease is who we use. Kristy and her team are fantastic. We love them, love them, love them but guess what? As they're transcribing, or having this episode transcribed and they're dealing with this episode, they're going to realize that they're going to be in charge while I'm gone. Yeah, totally in charge. They're going to be checking the email, they're going to be responding to your questions, dealing with any issues that come up for Backstage members, scheduling stuff, they're going to be the only touch point available for ten days in July, but that's because I made that investment and I built a team. Here's the deal guys, I did that before three days before I was leaving for Jamaica. Like I said, we started with them, I think it was January, it might have been February actually, earlier this year and it's hands down one of the best decisions I've ever made. We have tried outsourcing and VAs and stuff before, but Kristy and her team are just a perfect fit. If you are looking to get support so that you can unplug, which is what's going to have to happen to take time off, you need to plan now, you need to figure out who it is who's going to be helping. Whether it's scheduling social, whether it's monitoring social, whether it's making sure the content goes live. We have content that's going to go live during that time and not only are they going to make sure it's all scheduled and ready to go before I even leave, because it's already created, but they're also going to make sure it actually goes live. That if anybody responds to that email, they reply. Again, if there's an issue Backstage. Invest in support to be able to take time away. If you want to unplug from social, great, set yourself up for that. On the flip side, realize it's okay to unplug a little. It's not going to be the end of the world if you straight up take some time off. It's allowed, it's okay, I encourage it. Now if you go quiet for a month you're going to run into some reentry issues. I will have scheduled foundation stuff going out. I may occasionally post pictures from vacation. I'm probably going to do that because again guys, it's me. Figure out what that looks like for you, invest some time in laying out that plan and invest some money in getting the support you need. It will be one of the most valuable investments you make because it's straight up making you money while you're gone, even if you're still service based. Okay, so they're invoicing clients, they're delivering possibly for clients, they're handling incoming prospects, they're sending out contracts. All of those things can happen while you're gone. All right? Train your team to do whatever it is you need and ideally work with a team that gets it. Number three, our final thing, schedule some sales. We talked about Backstage was really birthed by a desire to make some money in the summer. Figure out some sales stuff to do in there, you know, taking time off doesn't mean you can't make any money. Now I wouldn't plan a massive launch in the summer, in fact, Backstage was the weakest, quietest launch I've ever done, yet somehow one of the most profitable as far as long term because, I mean, we have members that were founding members that are literally still members two years later, but it was also the easiest because we didn't put a ton of stuff behind it. We ran ads, we did emails, just sort of the low hanging fruit basic stuff. We had no affiliates, we did no webinars, we did no giant interviews, we didn't do any of that stuff. I just kind of told people what we had and said hey, check it out. Schedule those sales messages, schedule some ad campaigns to go to a passive income product. Make a sales pitch, write some sales sequences into your emails for your passive income or low touch stuff so again, even during this time off you're generating revenue. If you're hearing that and you have no idea what in your business you would direct, now is a really good time to again, go back to that repurpose step. Look at that stuff that you have hidden in your Google Drive, buried in the depths of Dropbox, maybe spread across both, yes, I've heard it all, and do something with it, monetize it and get it out there, because that is a really fun thing to do. There's literally nothing I like more than like making money when I'm on vacation or when I'm out shopping or out to dinner. There's something extra fun, I like it even more than making money in my sleep and I like making money in my sleep a ton. Somehow when I'm actively like enjoying my income, it's super double extra fun to make money then and that happens from scheduling these sales messages. Again, it doesn't have to be an intense all out launch, it just needs to be something that makes sense for you, a sales sequence in your emails, schedule an ad campaign, whatever that is. Cool? All right, that's it. A little bit of a long one today, this is how I'm preparing. I really, really encourage you guys to take some time off and set yourself up for success in that time off. Cool? All right. Last thing, if you haven't yet joined us Backstage, now's a really, really good time. We have a brand new training that launched this month, all about taking time off and prepping for time off from a, specifically from a a marketing perspective, so setting up those sales sequences, getting your emails ready, crafting your content, scheduling your social, what really needs to be there and what doesn't. All of that is available now. In the next few days, or actually next week, I'm sorry, next week, we'll have our monthly live call. That's your chance to come in, ask me literally anything. They're even called Ask Me Anything calls, so that you can get exactly what you need right now answered on video live in front of you like magic. Join us, hitthemicbackstage.com. I will see you Backstage and I will also see you right here next Tuesday. Have a good one.

Welcome to episode 296 of Hit the Mic with the Stacey Harris. Today I'm answering, possibly one of the most common Facebook ads questions. Which is how much should I be spending? There are a lot of questions around setting a Facebook ads budget and how much you should be spending and how often you should be spending it and how long you should be running ads for. Those are the 3 questions we're going to answer today. We're going to start with setting your budget and what that budget means. We're going to talk about how often to be running the same ads and we're going to wrap it up by talking about your overall budget. How often you're going to be running ads from a budget of a monthly perspective or annually and sort of that perspective. Let's jump right in.   I want to start by talking about setting your ads budget and what that budget means. There really isn't any sort of magical number that your ads budget needs to be. You can a $50 ads budget, you could have a $50,000 ads budget. What's really relevant is how you work with that budget and what that budget means for things like targeting and frequency and placement. Also realizing that during different times your Facebook ads budget may go a little further or maybe not quite as far as you'd hoped. Really be aware of what your budget needs. In this section I want to talk about an ads budget for a campaign. I have a couple of things that I want you to know when you're setting your ads budget. A, set your budget before you do anything else. Realize how much you are willing to invest in this Facebook ad. If it's $100, great. If it's $500, fantastic. If that's $5,000, whohoo for you. What it needs to be though is set, it needs to be known how much you're going to spend on this campaign. Once you've set that ads budget you need to stick with that ads budget. Let's say you have a smaller budget, maybe you have $100 or $200 to spend on a list building campaign. A webinar or driving traffic through an opt in or a piece of content or whatever but the goal is list building. You have, let's say $200, to spend. $200 is a smaller budget, it may feel huge to you and that's okay but it is, in the grand scheme of Facebook ads, a smaller ad budget. It doesn't mean that it's impossible, it doesn't mean that you won't see results but you're likely not going to get 2,000 new people on your email listing from spending $200 on Facebook ads. Be aware of that, set your expectations. Next, realize that with a smaller ad budget you really want to make sure that you're being really really clear on who you're targeting. You want that targeting to be pretty specific because you don't want to be spending money on ads that are not sitting in front of the right people. Not getting seen by the people who you want to be clicking and signing up for your email list. Know your targeting. The smaller your budget the less room you have for creative targeting. You want to be really really targeted so you know you're talking to the right people. Next, you really want to make sure that you're setting your campaign up so it is a daily budget instead of a lifetime budget. This can really impact how you're positioned in the feed and the priority you get. I have found that daily budgets just seem to spend better, spend more consistently and get placement more consistently. I don't have any sort of information from Facebook saying this is true. They're really really tight lipped about what the algorithm is. I'm just saying, from testing, I've found that a daily budget that equals out to a lifetime budget works a lot easier. Let's say you have a $200 ad budget, maybe you're spending $20 a day for 10 days or maybe you're spending $100 a day for 2 days. However it is you want to parse that out. Setting a daily budget is going to be really important. You want to make sure you have your targeting really tight and you want to make sure your budget is set per day. Next, I really want you to factor in your positioning. Where are you putting them? Right side bar ads on Facebook tend to be less effective. When I'm dealing with a small budget, and even when I'm dealing with a larger budget to be honest with you, I don't tend to put ads over there because I don't see a return on those ad dollar investments at the same level I do as a news feed ad. On the flip side of that, I have found a lot of success with Instagram ads and so I'll put a little more of my budget into an Instagram ad. Pay attention to where you're seeing success and make sure you're separating out where positioning so you can turn off parts of your ad if they're just not working as effectively and you can move that budget around if you need to. again, there's not really a magical number but it is critical that you know your budget and you account for it when you are factoring in positioning, targeting and how you're actually going to spend the budget. Again, not a magical number. There's a lot of people saying you have to be able to spend $10,000 before you should even talk about Facebook ads and that's crap. Total utter crap. What I want you to do instead is realize that whatever budget you have, and this is the magic of Facebook ads, whatever budget you have, you can see success with Facebook. You're not going to see the massive success somebody with at $10,000 budget is going to see in your first campaign if you've got a $1,000 budget or a $100 budget but you can still totally see some success. Quite frankly, if you're just getting started with Facebook ads, you've never ever ever run one and your DIYing it, don't go spending $10,000 because likely a lot of the return on your first Facebook ad investment will be learning, will be education, will be paid training. You will learn a lot about your ads, your audience and your goals in the future, in that first campaign. Don't come out of the gate wanting to spend 10 grand. It's not an effective use of that 10 grand. Number 2, how long should ads be running for? This is one of those questions I get a lot and I want to bring this up because there's 2 factors. A, it's going to go back to what your budget is and how much you can spend. Also, think about the people on the receiving end. If you are somebody who's got a really tight target, a really niched area, likely they're going to see your ads over and over and over again. If you have 1 ad you run for 3 months and yes, I have seen this happen from some major players by the way, you're going to get reported as spam, you're going to get hidden and that's because people are sick of seeing the same post. You do want to make sure you're changing it up, no matter what your budget is. I generally let ads run no more than 7 days and then I may run an ad to the exact same people with the exact same goal but the copy and or the graphic, generally speaking the graphic, is definitely changed but often I'll change the copy as well. It's different and that's because sometimes that 2nd, that follow up ad if you will, will be more effective because I've kind of [inaudible 00:08:16] them with that first ad. Sometimes I'll get people to sign up again because they don't realize it's the same thing which is weird by the way. That happens occasionally with webinars or they'll have forgotten they signed up, it's a whole thing.  I try and change it up, no more than 7 days. Also realize that, from a budget perspective, if you're talking about running a new ad every week to your evergreen opt in, maybe you run a challenge or you've got a free eBook, you need to be setting a secondary budget. You need to be setting not just a campaign budget but you also need to be aware, for yourself, of what your monthly ad budget is. This is something that doesn't get talked about enough when it comes to talking about budgets. It's not just that campaign budget that you need to worry about. We talk about, okay, well I'm running this ad campaign for 14 days and I'm going to spend $1,000. Fantastic. I also boosted this post for $20 and this post for $20 and this post for $20, oh, and these other 2 posts. Now I've spent $1,100 this month and you know what, I actually want to run a 2nd campaign the 2nd 2 weeks of the month that is targeting people who clicked but didn't buy, a retargeting campaign. I'm going to give that ad campaign another $500.  Now you've spent $1,600, not the $1,000 that you initially intended to spend. Realize, when you go out to set your budget, that you need to have a line in your monthly budget that says, this is what I spent on Facebook ads. This is the maximum that I spent on Facebook ads. You can actually go in and set a limit on your account of how much you can spend on Facebook if you want to make sure. Maybe you have somebody helping or maybe you don't very good self control when it comes to hitting that boost button which I have actually heard from clients. You can actually set a cap so it won't spend any more than that cap. You can actually set that, I should say. Figure out what your monthly budget is, as well as your campaign budget, and that's going to impact the length of time or how many different kinds of ads you create. It really comes down to knowing how much you're going to spend, sticking to it, knowing your audience and knowing your goals. That's how you're going to maximize any ad budget. Whether it's $100, $1,000, $100,000. It really is going to be maximized by knowing the strategic stuff first and then also factoring in that your ad alone is not the savior or the fault point if your ad campaign is not successful. It may be what came after, it may be the landing page, it may be the funnel they're going into, it may be the follow up that's happening. There are a lot of moving pieces so make sure you are aware of all of them, don't just say Facebook ads don't work because you ran a Facebook ad campaign and no one signed up. Pay attention. Especially if you're seeing a lot of clicks to a landing page and the landing page isn't working, that is not the fault of the ad. That's the fault of the landing page. If you have any questions when it comes to Facebook ads, head over to TheStaceyHarris.com. That is where you can get a Facebook ads checklist, so all the things you need to be going through before you build your Facebook ads and also, a guide to staying on Facebook's good side. This is a totally free bundle but check it out. Also, if you go to the show notes page for this episode you'll see a link at the bottom of the show notes to sign up for that as well. If you really are ready to take this to the next level, be sure to join us in Hit the Mic Backstage because inside Hit the Mic Backstage we have an entire Facebook program which has an entire module around Facebook ads and how to build them. We've also got a couple of additional Facebook ads trainings. Plus, there's a Facebook group where you can ask me questions about your Facebook ads which is killer. I will see you guys Friday. Bye.    Resources Join us inside Hit the Mic Backstage Connect with Me Connect with me on Facebook Tweet with me and include #HittheMic Be sure to leave your review on iTunes or Stitcher for a shoutout on a future show

Welcome to the Real Fast Results podcast!  Thanks for being here.  The special guest this episode is Robert Plank.  Let's jump right into the show today and see what Robert has to share with us... I am going to share how to go from having an idea for something, to solve some kind of problem, into having a money-making membership site ready to go.  This will be where someone goes to a webpage, sees a bunch of cool stuff, clicks a button, clicks to buy, they pay the money, and they get what they paid for. Membership Sites Bring in Passive Income It's the passive income.  It's great to not have to start at the beginning of every month, or every day, at zero.  It's great to be able to do whatever you want and have a bunch of money that came in automatically.  Then, if you want to do some more of that, if you want to do whatever it takes to grow your business, that is all extra! I honestly believe that whatever everyone listening does, even if it's like a service; for example, maybe you set up websites for local businesses, you should still have a membership site for a couple of reasons.  One is that you could get a lot of extra money for something that you're already doing anyway.  I found that when I sell any kind of information products, and stuff like that, I'll get extra business just from people buying the membership site or buying the product. I used to do a lot of nerdy PHP programming, setting up websites.  Well, it was tough to get new business. However, as soon as I made a couple of courses, just sort of showing what I did, I would get a lot of people who I would go through the funnel. They would buy this course, trying to see how I was going to do it, or maybe they were going to hire someone else to do it, and they would end up hiring me to do it. It's really cool making this thing called a membership site because you're doing it anyway, and you might as well get paid a second time for it.  Also, there may be someone that couldn't afford to hire you for $2,000.  You might have lost that person for $0 otherwise, but this way, you may be able to get $200 off of them instead and everybody wins. How to Set Up Membership Sites - An Overview The first step would be to set up WordPress.  It's free, and it's what most of us marketers use to just be able to click a button and make some content.  So, we set up this thing called WordPress, and we put it on a domain, like a .com domain such as RealFastResults.com.  Once WordPress is set up, the two pieces are the front-end piece and the back-end piece. For the front-end, we have a thing called a landing page or a sales letter.  We use a plug in for that called PaperTemplate.  For the back-end we have the member's area, where someone can log in.  We use WishList Member for that.  The pre-step would be to get a website, get a domain name, and get a host account. Then the real stuff is to set up WordPress, set up your sales letter or landing page as your front-end. Then set up the actual login area, called the back-end. Step 1 - Set Up WordPress The first step is to set up WordPress.  The only way this would be awkward or difficult is if you've never done it before.  If you've done this once or twice, then the process of setting up your membership site will be super-easy.  Even if you're not technical at all, there are all kinds of videos out there on how to do this.  Some people use Fantastico, QuickInstall, or SimpleScripts to help set up their WordPress site. The point is that you have this website, and people listening may be used to like uploading files into a folder or something like that, but you click a special button and you install WordPress. Right out of the box, you'll have this place where you can go and post, basically, online journal entries.  Even that, technically, would kind of get you done.  Technically, we're talking about membership sites, and a membership site, all it has to be is a protected download area.  It doesn't have to be something where someone pays you month after month.  It can literally just be  a little protected area that has a bunch of posts, has your videos, other content, or whatever. From there, you go to C-Panel, and within there, it's either called Fantastico, QuickInstall, or SimpleScripts. From there you simply say, "I want to install a WordPress blog at the top level of my site.  It's RealFastResults.com."  Then, it asks you stuff like, "What's the name of your blog?" and "What do you want your password to be?"  You click it, it's done, and that's how you can start adding content to the website. Step 2 - Set Up the Front-end Next, you make what's called the front-end.  You don't need a plug-in for this, and you don't need a theme for this, but it's better if you do.  Basically, you just need one big, long webpage, and even if you have a page with nothing else but a button to click and buy, that would be better than nothing.  Even if you had no time for anything else, but you said, "Hey, I'm Daniel Hall and I have a great membership site on publishing comic books to Kindle." You could still tell someone, "Go to this webpage, and there's just a button there," but at least they would know to go there and click the button. If you had an extra three minutes, then you could put above the button what the title of the course is.  That would be another step in the right direction. If you had another couple of minutes, you could list, maybe 10 good reasons to buy, or 10 things that people would get out of that course.  Then, if you had another three minutes, you could change the headline to something interesting like, "Who Else Wants to Publish Their Comic Book on Kindle Today and Do It In 3 Clicks".  Now it's kind of coming together where they go to this webpage. What we like to do is have it at the very front door of your site. If your site was RealFastKindelComics.com, they would go there and all there would be on that page to do is see what you have to offer and then either close the browser tab or click and buy.  That would be Step #2, getting that front-end set up.  One thing that I've had a lot of success with is writing the sales letter first, even if it's just a couple of quick bullet points.  I've seen a lot of people get tired of doing things in the wrong order, and that's why I tell people to just have a buy button, because that's Step #1.  Anything else that comes after that is extra. When I see a lot of people who fail, what they mess up on is that they go in and make a lot of content first.  They go in, and they make their logo, and they create their business card, and then they go, "I just spent a month working my tail off, and now I have to write something called a sales letter."  When I like to do is, while I'm still in a fresh state of mind...I'm still excited and stuff, and not tired out yet...Make the sales letter, even if it's just some quick thing.  Then, when it comes time to make the course, it kind of has to live up to the hype of the sales letter. Step 3 - Set Up the Back-end The third step is this thing called the back-end. So, this is where all of the magic happens.  This is where you set up a plug-in called WishList Member.  What that basically does is protect your content.  I can't stress this enough, that a lot of people think in the wrong kind of terms.  They think that a membership site is a monthly thing, where every week you deliver an interview or an article.  I prefer to think of it as is a protected download area.  So, for example, YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook would all be membership sites because someone can be a member of that site, right?  I mean, Facebook is free, but it's the same idea; either they can get in or they can't. Some people think that they are going to have a site for free, or even for $10.  What I like to do is create a cool course.  I like to have something that has some meat on it... $200, $300...And that way, there's a couple of pieces to it.  If you're getting $300 a pop, first of all, you can have a nice little affiliate program, you could pay out some nice commissions, then if you only made like $3K, you could still be like, "Okay, I just made $3,000, and I feel like my efforts paid off." I think a lot of people have low confidence.  They think that they have to give it away for free or give it away for $5.  Well, what are you going to teach about for $5?  It's going to be a piece of crap.  It's just going to be some PowerPoints, but if you make it $200 or $300, you're probably going to add is some software and some cool videos. As far as the back-end goes, there are two pieces: The tools that you use and content strategy. Like, how many videos am I going to make, what are they going to say etc. Back-end Tools As far as the tools, since WordPress is already set up, we use WishList Member to protect it.  So, what's cool about that is that if someone goes to that front page, they see what they like about Daniel Hall's course about Kindle comic books, they click the button, and they buy.  After they pay you money, say they pay you $200, they go to a registration form that says, "What's your first and last name?  What's your email address?  What username and password do you want?"  They create that account, and now they can go anytime they want.  If it's five years later, they can still come back to this Kindle comic book course. What's cool about this, from a management point of view, is that if someone comes back five years later and they have forgotten their password and click a link, they can get back in. If they pay you money and they refund, now they're locked out.  So, it's really cool from a management point of view, and then what we'll usually do is pile in some videos. Then, we'll use a cool tool called TablePress.  It is so cool.  Basically, you can make a table or a grid inside of your membership site. Usually, if I'm pressed for time, I'll just put some posts on a page.  It will look like any other blog, and they buy access to this blog. Maybe if we have an extra five or ten minutes, we can make a table or a grid. Say I want to have like three columns across, five rows, and add in some cool little icons.  It's one of those nice to have little goodies, where you can make the inside of your membership site look pretty slick.  Make a dashboard, and just make it point and click.  You can make it the way you want it instead of some videos just kind of tossed in a webpage. I would say that my top tools, as far as WordPress being set up are WishList Member and TablePress to structure the membership site with.  So, those are the tools. Content on Your Membership Site When it comes to recording, it takes a little bit of a mindset shift. I think that a lot of people, when they are doing a course, they think, "Let me see what kind of trivia I could just give to you about Kindle comic books.  Let me show you some Kindle comic books.  Let me show you Photoshop, or you could use this other editor."  People just go off in all of these scattered directions. Usually, when I buy a course, I will look over this kind of stuff because I'm just there for the content.  Usually it starts off with a five-minute intro, and then they'll have like a 20-minute longer thing, and everything after that is about 5 minutes.  It's like they get tired or something, and then it ends up being like 20, 30, 40 videos, and you have to page through every little thing to get what you wanted. It's just this meandering thing taking me into all different directions.  What we like to do is think in copywriting and marketing terms.  We think, "They are going to buy this course on Kindle comic books, so what are they going to actually have built by the end?" It's not just what they have learned, but what actions have they actually taken.  This is how you separate yourself from the cheap Kindle and the cheap Udemy kind of courses.  Now you're actually a $300 course.  By the end, they should have, say one or two Kindle comic books up.  Maybe they have another one in progress, or whatever it is. However, by the end of your course, they should have something set up.  That way, they will buy your next course, they won't refund, and all of that good stuff we all like to have. We think of it in terms of, by the end of this course, they will have all of this stuff, and then I split it up into four milestones.  A milestone, we can call it a module, is like a video, that's usually a screen capture that's like 60 minutes long, maybe 90 minutes at the most.  This is how we avoid having to page through all of these little five minute videos. Then each of these four pieces actually counts for something, and is building on the next, and is in the right order.  Then, at the end of each of these modules, we'll have a little 10-minute assignment.  So, for example, in the Kindle Comic book course, at the end of the first module, maybe they will have their first comic book created but not published. Maybe the second module would be having them publish it.  That makes it really cool in a lot of ways.  A lot of people won't get past that first hour of video, and when you're making the sales letter, you're like, I've got all kinds of promises for you, because I can say, "Tonight you join this course and you'll have your first comic book created using the software," or something like that.  So, instead of making videos with no plan, the way I always do it is think in terms of four milestones, 60-90 minutes, and it's all in video form.  Put it on there, put it in that little TablePress grid, and it's a cool little package for anyone that's looking to get some results fast. Sometimes what I'll do is add in free bonuses for any kind of course that we have.  One piece of the bonus may be some kind of software.  Either built-in software on the membership site, buy rights, or have something made.  So, that's good.  If not, I'll tell them where to go and buy, say, some sort of point and click comic creator and then provide some kind of video training on how to use it.  Then, I'll throw in a checklist of sorts.  So I'll have a list of questions they ask like, what's your Kindle comic book going to be called, how many pages is it going to be, etc.  By just going through and answering those questions, they will have something at the end. A few weeks after the course is done, I'll go back and make what's called "quick-start" videos.  I'll make just a video that's just one hour or so. I'll split that up into five-minute chunks just so that if a person has a short attention span or no time, I'll give them just the bare nuts and bolts.  Sometimes I'll have just a quick little section, where it's like, "Just give me the bare essentials," basically. Getting Traffic to Your Membership Site What you need is traffic.  You need to send some people to that site and get your first member going.  I think that at this point, there are two paths you can take.  One path is, you can keep on adding to the site and making it cool, and I think that's the natural path a lot of people want to go into.  That's because it means you don't have to go into any of the scary stuff.  You don't have to market your stuff or buy ads.  You don't have to send emails, do webinars, get affiliates, and stuff like that. I think that at this point, as soon as you have the minimum viable product, even if the sales page could be better, and even if you haven't quite figured out TablePress, what's important at this point is to get one single, paying member.  I think some people get kind of discouraged because they think, "Oh man, I see all of these people talking about having a $100,000 launch.  On the first day, I guess I'll be okay with like $50,000."  Then, they put out their site and they just get one sale.  I'm thinking that's great because before you had $0.  Yeah, you may have put in 10 or 20 hours, but don't cut it up and say that you only made $10 an hour.  You made your first member, and then the next thing you know, member #2, #3, #4 are going to come in with almost no work at all. Going down the line, I think that there are some cool things that anyone could add to a site.  For example, what we do a lot of times, is we have a plug-in called WP Notepad, and we have it to where, underneath every video, or every post, there's like a little note-taking area where any of your members can go in and type their own private notes that are stored on your server.  So, they don't have to save it anywhere.  You could add a checklist under each post so that they can check off if they've watched that video or gone to that webpage. We have a way where you can add a pop-up using a program called WP Kunaki, where it will confirm their physical shipping address.  So, you can send them a quick "Thank You" card or call them on the phone as soon as they join.  That way you can say, "Thanks for your purchase.  I just wanted to make sure that you made it to the download page."  You could also send them a DVD, or whatever.  Those are all nice things to have, and those are good to add maybe like in a week or two. The next one or two weeks should be dedicated to getting some dang members in there. You need traffic, and you need a compelling offer, but how do you do that?  One of the ways you could do so is essentially by making allies with someone that has a list and has a community that would benefit in some way from your membership site.  You could include that person in the resources section, or you could reach out to that person and maybe do an interview with them, or a bonus of some sort that you could include within your membership site.  You could even include a link back to their site to go download whatever the bonus is. This is a way that you could go about making an ally of a mover and shaker in your niche that has a vested interest in seeing you succeed because the more you succeed, the more eyeballs they could potentially have on their stuff since it's in the member's area.  This also gives you the opportunity to seed your members area with good content.  The content does have to be A+ for this to work well, but you can share the spotlight with other experts, essentially, who now have a vested interest in seeing you actually succeed and the site succeeds.  Again, the more you succeed, the more successful they will be, potentially, and they will see some benefit from that as well. We work with people who are outside of internet marketing.  They have a list, and usually it's like on YouTube or Facebook, but they don't even know what they have. Some of these guys are playing around on Facebook, and they'll post some like random link and get 100 likes.  We're just like, "Dude, you need to figure out what kind of problem people have, get an idea for a course, record some videos, and put it in a membership site.  Then, post it and start making some money."  Yeah, it's crazy how some of these people, especially outside of internet marketing, they have a list and don't even know what they have.  It's like, "If you spent a couple of days on this, you'd have tens of thousands of dollars without even trying." Learn From Robert The best way is to buy our membership course at MembershipCube.  If you're not quite ready for that, I have a blog at RobertPlank.com, where I talk about a lot of this stuff.  It doesn't have to be that complicated.  I know that it's really easy to let the inner voice of "low-confidence" kind of trick you into thinking you have to keep on building stuff  before it's ready to go.  You can have the best of both worlds.  You can make a really simple membership site, just come up with a really simple idea.  Then, you create your modules and create some little bonuses, put it out there, and get some more sales.  After that, you can go back and innovate again and again. Every batch of sales that you get, you can go back and say, "Now my reward, after doing the scary marketing stuff, is to make some of those five minute videos," or "My reward is now to reach out and get some guest interviews to create some membership site content."  I think that there's something to be said about just figuring out what problem you're solving.  That way, it's impossible to not create the content, and this way you're trying to cover every little nook and cranny. You're not trying to be the encyclopedia of Kindle comic books, for example.  You're just saying, "The goal is to have a dang Kindle comic book done, so anything else that I say that gets too off topic or too long-winded, that's a step in the wrong direction.  All that matters is, here's the software to make it, ignore most of this, click these buttons, and boom, you have a Kindle comic.  Now you have your results." If you want to add any extra bonus in, that's great, but I think a lot of people have it backwards when it comes to what to include as bonuses.  They think that someone's just going to buy a course where they offer to give some Kindle advice, like, "Ask me anything that you want to about Kindle."  Well, how the heck are you going to sell that.  People are going to think, "I don't know what to ask, why don't you just tell me about Kindle?" There's something to say about just keeping it simple, getting it in place, and then go back and inch up everything.  So, just get it set up. Use WordPress, PaperTemplate, WishList Member, TablePress, and get some videos made, and then call it a day and come back to it later.  Now, WishList Member does cost around $300, but we do provide this for free to our members at MembershipCube.  Daniel Hall also provides training for a free way to protect your site at DanielHallPresents.com/GetCode.  WishList Member is recommended, but it can be costly if you're just starting out. Resources Robert Plank's Membership Course: MembershipCube WordPress Tools: WordPress Fantastico QuickInstall SimpleScripts Membership Site Maker: WishList Member Front-end Tool: PaperTemplate Back-end Tools: TablePress WP Notepad Real Fast Results Community If you are diggin’ on this stuff and really love what we’re doing here at Real Fast Results, would you please do me a favor? Head on over to iTunes, and make sure that you subscribe to this show, download it, and rate & review it. That would be an awesome thing. Of course, we also want to know your results. Please share those results with us at http://www.realfastresults.com/results. As always, go make results happen!

Today we introduce an official new segment on Radio Film School..."RAW": Radio Film School interviews uncut, unfiltered and unbelievable. Today we have my uncut interview with Philip Bloom.There's a reason I like to call this show the "This American Life" for filmmakers. Our main episodes are craftily edited audio documentaries where I pull soundbites from disparate interviews to fit any particular episode. But many of my raw interviews with guests are so chock full of wonderful insights, seems like a shame not to share the whole thing. Sometimes I'll post them as exclusive bonuses for Premium Members. But many will be shared for the whole world to hear. And that's what we're doing today as we launch an official new segment of the show wherein I share full, uncut guest interviews.Today we have world renowned DP and director Philip Bloom, and we cover a gamut of topics like:His take on the "style" questionHow he got his startWhy he calls himself a “filmmaker”Why he does his reviews the way he doesHow he deals with online criticismThe biggest misconception people have about himAnd the proverbial "much, much, more!"Excerpts of this interview were used in RFS episodes "What the Hell Are You", "Plan E from Outerspace" and this week's "One Man Bands."Music in this EpisodeMusic was curated from FreeMusicArchive.org. In order of appearance, the music in this episode:Boulevard St. Germain by Jahzzar (CC BY-SA)Gettin' Paid Part II by Alec's Band (CC BY)Click here to learn about Creative Commons licenses and meanings.Legally License Music for Your ProductionIf you need to legally license music for your productions, from every genre (including mainstream music) look no further than Song Freedom. Click here to unlock a one-time Standard Gold Level license worth $30.Check These Videos OutVisit the blog post to see Phil's Blackmagic Design 4K Ursa review and his NAB2016 post mortem Vlog.Reach OutIf you have a question about the movie business you'd like answered, or if you just want to drop us a line to say "Hi", email us at radiofilmschool@daredreamer.fm. Better yet, use the "Send Voicemail" button at the bottom of our website to leave a voicemail message. Follow Ron on Twitter @DareDreamerFM, or follow the show @RadioFilmSchool. Join the discussion at facebook.com/radiofilmschool.

Why the Inside P2 podcast Welcome to Inside P2, the podcast for public participation practitioners hosted by me, Joseph Thornley. Each week I hope to talk to you about best practices, case studies, and research in effective public participation. Sometimes I'll be on my own. Sometimes, I'll have guest hosts. And sometimes, I'll post interviews. The format of the show will include both a discussion of a principal topic or interview along with one or more brief #IP2Noted items, quick hits on things P2 that I've noticed around the web. I'm also hoping to be joined from time to time by guest hosts who have a unique perspective on on P2. So, if you have some insight or experience that you'd like to share and are willing to illustrate it with case studies or original research, I'd love to feature you either as a guest host or as an interviewee. If you're interested, please email me at insidep2podcast@gmail.com or tweet to @insidep2podcast. #IP2Noted Finally, this week's #IP2Noted segment covers: The IAP2 North American Conference is being held September 28-30 in Montreal. I attended this conference in Portland last year - and found it to be the best conference of the year. It's smallish - 250 people - with two full days of speakers with practical experience. I learned a lot last year and I'm looking forward to attending again this year. The early registration fee is in effect now. Check out the conference Website. If you are a public participation practitioner looking for an opportunity to meet other practitioners and learn from them, this conference may be what you are looking for. The Mandarin has launched All Things P, an online hub dedicated to news and insight about public engagement in Australia. The Australians have been at the P2 game for some time. In announcing the launch of All Things P, Mandarin Publisher Tom Burton writes: All Things P recognises the need agencies have to rapidly develop their engagement and campaign management skills. We are bringing together some of Australia’s best practitioners in the fields of communications, user and interface design, engagement, clear communications, marketing, campaign design, analytics, brand management, stakeholder management and modern public affairs management. Their insights, from the practical to the strategic, will help build a strong community of practice around public sector engagement. Australia has been a P2 hotspot. So, this site should be useful to anyone interested in P2. It's your turn I'd love to know what you think about the topics in this podcast, topics you'd like me to cover in future podcasts and people you'd like to hear from. You can contact me in several ways Leave a comment at the bottom of this blog post. Tweet to @InsideP2Podcast Email InsideP2Podcast@Gmail.com Keep listening. Keep considering what you hear. Keep responding. Subscribe Subscribe in iTunes Reviews on iTunes help others to find this podcast. If you like this podcast, please review Inside P2 on iTunes.  

PopFury faves DIANE TENG and TIM DE LA MOTTE drop in to talk about forgetting people, dating a kitty cat clown, talking to your exes, drinking and the etiquette of paying on dates. Diane has previously appeared on episode 39 and episode 81. Tim has guested on episode 72 and episode 86. SHOW NOTES: 0:00 Intro 1:25 Sammy had an awkward social moment at Starbucks. Tim & Diane share their can't-remember-who-you-are social strategies. “You oughta be wearing a baseball cap from the city you're from—that way I can remember who you are.” 6:30 Tim & Diane flip through Sammy's 1992 High School Yearbook. 9:15 Diane was sauced at her high school reunion. She was also sauced at last year's company holiday party. Diane doesn't know what 'sauced' means. “He probably has a Diane Teng in every city.” 13:05 Diane dated a kitty cat clown who ghosted her. Yes, he did the kitty cat thing in the boudoir. 19:00 We discuss what attitude you should have in the bedroom. “Timidity is the worst thing you can have in a bedroom situation.” 23:50 Sammy asks whether they keep in contact with their exes...and Tim answers with a bicycle seat analogy. Tim has been fired from his position as a friend. 28:10 Diane dates jerks. “No one deserves that but specifically Diane Teng doesn't deserve that.” 30:30 Tim is abstaining from drinking during “Octsober” or “Sobtober” (he hasn't figured it out yet). 33:05 Diane doesn't drink that much...but has bartender friends and goes to bars alone. Tim sometimes says outlandish things to test his dates. Diane recalls a pick up experience. “Sometimes I'll just make a comment about how much I hate white people.” 44:10 Tim is the choosy prizefighter of dating. He has an “elevator speech of me” he uses on dates. 47:15 Diane and Tim disagree about the expense of dating for men and women. Diane will pick up the check if she likes you. We talk about dating when there is financial disparity between the couple. 52:50 Outro Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode of the PopFury Podcast, please subscribe and rate us on iTunes or Stitcher!

.embed-container { position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.25%; height: 0; overflow: hidden; max-width: 100%; height: auto; } .embed-container iframe, .embed-container object, .embed-container embed { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%; } Looking to improve your real estate career? I'm here to help you make a smart decision when it comes to growing your business, improving your bottom line, and choosing a place to work in real estate sales. If you'd like to learn more about working with Curtis Johnson Realty, please visit http://curtisjohnsonrealtycareer.com/.Real estate agents change brokerages for many reasons, but one reason we see a lot is that a brokerage just didn't provide enough training for them. We pride ourselves on the fact that we train essentially every day of the week. On Mondays and Fridays we have a team huddle, and then Tuesday is our big team meeting. On Wednesdays and Thursdays we focus on training our agents with their scripts or how to win a listing, etc.We cover such a large area here in the Valley that we put our training up online for you to access anywhere, at anytime. We believe that training is the key to raising your income, because you are your biggest asset. I'm part of some different groups that discuss new strategies, and I personally run 90% of the training sessions that we have here. Sometimes I'll bring in another top producer from around the country to share ideas, and we will also occasionally host a mini-mastermind group. If you have any questions about our training program or about our brokerage in general, please be sure to reach out to me. I'm always willing to assist you!

What use is an F-call? It seems that there is a disease within the amateur radio community. It's spreading and seems to be contagious. There doesn't seem to be a cure and it seems to be pretty virulent. Symptoms include listlessness, deafness, stubbornness and apathy. Community members have aptly named it as L.A.S. or Lead Arse Syndrome. I receive a regular stream of emails and phone calls from fellow amateurs who share with me their latest idea or plan for an activity in the hobby. It's often a group activity, a plan to do something with the wider community, or a group of people with a common interest. It might be an outing, a meeting, a build-day, an activation, a web-site or some or other thing. The conversation often includes the question: "Do you think it's a good idea?" Often I'll say: "Absolutely, great, wonderful." Sometimes I'll suggest alternatives or point at an existing activity that is already underway. After that the response from the other person is often: "Well, I'll leave it with you." Fortunately I'm made of sterner stuff, having only a few other commitments in this community and I'll often suggest that they take on the project and I'll do whatever I can to support them. I can almost guarantee that's the very last I hear of the activity. So, what is it that stops people from making their idea into reality? Are they dense, lazy or is their idea wrong? No. It's that they lack the confidence to stick their neck out and do something, anything. You might wonder what this has to do with L.A.S. or Lead Arse Syndrome. It's simple. The rest of the community doesn't particularly care one way or the other. They might respond or not, often not; commit to something, or they might not, they might say they're coming, but don't show, they might start an activity but never finish it, they might participate for an hour during a 24 hour contest, but there is no commitment. I know, I should be grateful that they spend the hour, or tell me that their pet parrot died and they cannot attend. But frankly, I'm not. I think that this lack of participation, lack of engagement, lack of commitment is embarrassing. It's not community minded, it's not encouraging to new entrants and it sets a very bad example to the community. I understand that circumstances change and that people have commitments outside the hobby. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about an advanced level of apathy that infuses others and has them give up on their idea before they begin. I'd rather be surrounded by those who think that this is a fun hobby with stuff to learn, people to meet, things to do and places to go. Of course, if you're one of the few with an idea, then I salute you. Hold your head high, scream your idea from the rooftops, share it with the active community and get on with it. Unfortunately there is one of me and many of you. I'm happy to be your sounding board, but I've not yet figured out how to have more than 24 hours in a day. I'm Onno VK6FLAB

AIR DATE: October 3, 2013 at 7PM ETFEATURED EXPERT: FEATURED TOPIC: "All Things Intermittent Fasting (IF 101)" Just mention the word "fasting" to the man on the street and the reaction you'll get from most of them would probably fall somewhere between completely scoffing at the idea to the sheer terror at the realization of going without food for more than a few hours. This concept of fasting even on an intermittent basis, as has become popularized in the Paleo community in recent years, is certainly a highly controversial and misunderstood strategy that could very well be the last piece of the puzzle in optimizing your weight and health issues. Is intermittent fasting (aka IF) the right way to go for everyone, especially for women who seem to have more difficulty with this? Is there anyone who absolutely shouldn't IF or even those who must do it for therapeutic purposes? And how long and how often should these fasting periods be done to get the most benefit out of them? These are just some of the questions we're going to explore further with a nutritional habits expert named  (listen to Jimmy's "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show" podcast with him in ) in Episode 48 of "Ask The Low-Carb Experts" where we'll take YOUR questions on "All Things Intermittent Fasting (IF 101)." Here's your chance to speak directly with the expert to ask YOUR questions. Start getting me your questions on this topic NOW by e-mailing them to  no later than 3PM ET this Thursday. You can also ask your question LIVE on my show by calling (712) 432-0900 or Skype the show for FREE by calling the username freeconferencing.7124320900. Whether you call or Skype, be sure to use the access code 848908. Listen LIVE and  if you like what you hear. This is golden opportunity to interact with the best nutritional health experts in the world, so don't be bashful. We look forward to sharing this brand new episode of "Ask The Low-Carb Experts" with you later this week. SUGAR-FREE, LOW-CARB PEANUT BUTTER CUPSNOTICE OF DISCLOSURE: LOW-CARB PASTABILITIES FROM QUEST NUTRITIONNOTICE OF DISCLOSURE:  Here are some of the questions we address in this episode: RENEE ASKS: I have long heard that women in general don't have great results from intermittent fasting. I'm wondering whether you agree with this, why it happens, and if this applies to post-menopausal women? I am a post-menopausal female and naturally IF more days than not. What effect does IF have on women's and men's hormones? KARL ASKS: I have been doing Intermittent Fasting for the past few weeks eating meals between 12-8pm. Do you have any suggestions about how I can make sure I get enough food in my body during that 8-hour window? I feel like I’m eating way too few calories. I do have a cup of coffee with about two teaspoons of heavy cream in the mornings. Does that coffee and/or cream make any difference in the effects of an intermittent fast? Should I add a tablespoon of coconut oil or MCT oil to make it better? Or should I be going that entire 16 hours without any calories consumed to technically do an IF? JENNY ASKS: I've been eating low-carb, high-fat for 3 months now and incorporated a 24-hour fast, two days a week for the last month. I also try to mini-fast for 17 hours between my meals everyday. When does the timer begin for fasting: as soon as I put my fork down or about 3 hours later when I've digested my last meal? One issue I am having is that I want to take my vitamins everyday, especially on fasting days, but I can't keep them down on an empty stomach. Is there any type of food that I can eat to stay in a fasted state but is substantial enough to let me take my vitamins? I tried almond butter and was able to keep the pills down but it was not the best option for me. Would a pure fast be even more beneficial than a multivitamin? DAMON ASKS: Assuming proper caloric load and macronutrient breakdown compliance, what could be the reasons for not getting results as far as fat loss goes when engaging in regular periods of intermittent fasting? Are there any disadvantages to doing resistance training in a fasted state in the morning if you don’t eat until later in the day? DEB ASKS: I’m a 48-year old woman and changed my exercise to mainly weight-training and short bouts of high intensity interval training with lots of walking, but was eating low-calorie/low-carb/Paleo for part of the time and doing IF for most of that time frame. I check my muscle progress by doing hydrostatic weighing and I was told I’m losing muscle because I train in a fasted state. Does the kind of exercise matter when doing it fasted? What should I be doing and what should I avoid if I exercise in a fasted state? JASON ASKS: How important is it to eat as soon as possible after a fasted workout? I enjoy my post-workout fat/protein shake but I could just as easily go without it as I am rarely hungry after a workout. Am I harming recovery and/or muscle growth if I just wait until lunch to eat after my morning workout? Is there a known physiological benefit to forcing a 24 hour fast? What are the health reasons to do periodic fasts during the week? JANIE ASKS: I skip breakfast just about every single day as I'm just not hungry in the mornings. Sometimes I'll have decaffeinated coffee with a tablespoon of heavy cream but I wonder if that officially breaks my fast. I see people in the Paleo community having multiple tablespoons of fat in their coffee yet they say that they are still fasting! I am pretty sure a 900-calorie cup of coffee is NOT fasting, right? Is there a calorie level that I can consume in my coffee that keeps my intermittent fasting going? GEZ ASKS: I’m a 44-year old man and have lost 70 pounds following a low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat diet. Intermittent fasting 16-18 hours daily and high intensity eccentric exercise for 30 minutes once a week helped me shed the final 14 pounds. My question is I’m finding it difficult to lose the remaining fat around my waist and lower back. Should I change the length of my intermittent fast to longer periods of time between meals? I’ve also considered adding in a high-carb day once a week in the vein of Keifer’s Carb Nite Solution ketogenic cycling system. Any thoughts? MICKEY ASKS: I have been fasting quite regularly and eat one meal in the evening around 1500-2000 calories a day. I don't really get hungry at all during the day. My concern is whether or not I am prone to losing too much muscle mass doing this? Is it possible to overdo it when you are fasting?

Episode 0x1D -- Oops, We Did It Again Sometimes, breaches happen to the nicest folks A PSA on TFA! TFA is addictive, a year ago I started using it at work and then I began using it at home on my webmail. I didn't tell my wife about it for a while because I thought that it would bring up the whole 'if you love me you'll share you password' argument again. My TFA use began to spread to other cloud services and soon I was trying to get other people to start using it as well. Now I do TFA everywhere, whenever I have a quiet moment to access a cloud service. Sometimes I'll even use it on the train when I go to work, I don't care who sees me key in my OTP because I know TFA will keep me safe; it's a good feeling. Upcoming this week... Lots of News Breaches The SCADAs/ICS and Cyber finishing it off with DERPs/Mailbag and Our new weekly Briefs - no arguing or discussion allowed And if you've got commentary, please sent it to mailbag@liquidmatrix.org for us to check out. DISCLAIMER: It's not that explicit, but you may want to use headphones if you're at work. ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER: In case it is unclear, this is the story of 5 opinionated infosec pros who have sufficient opinions of their own they don't need to speak for anyone except themselves. Ok? Good. In this episode: News and Commentary Bug Bounties! Pwn2own 2013 looking good Kimdotcom is back - Mega and encryption is haardddddd Another Java vuln confirmed the brits do some identity outsourcing Red October (Be very careful not to shoot the nuclear missiles) Student expelled for finding flaws in edu-software Blue Coat Caught Up In Global Surveillance Storm Again Canadian report on ethical hacking sidestepped Breaches - The never ending never ending story... Liquidmatrix branches out into Viagra...apparently The SCADAs/ICS and Cyber DHS to regulate medical device security More releases from the SCADA Strangelove folks Canada has a bad case of the Cybers Singapore Cybers You Back Endgame Systems is going to Bonesaw you US succumbs to sneakernet. Time to glue up your USB ports Errata / DERP of the week award ESPN wall of app shame Mailbag / Bizarro Land Gentlemen, Where did you guys get the term "Narcasistic vulnerability pimps"? Jonesy, GTA Link Briefly - NO ARGUING OR DISCUSSION ALLOWED Like garfield without garfield, it's Risk Unicorns without Alex Hutton!!! Webappsec Quiz! Whoops!! Bobby Tables! httpOnly cookie flag Stats Mikko gives you video tips on banking online Condoms and Castles Google Authenticator for Wordpress. Just sayin. HackDesign - good for your eyeballs Record number of British schoolkids participate in National Cypher Challenge (h/t to my Mom, seriously) TSA ends contract with Rapiscan, maker of full-body scanner Your Mac Keeps A Log Of All Your Downloads iGotYa leads to arrest Liquidmatrix Staff Projects The Security Conference Library  Contribute to the Strategic Defense Execution Standard (#SDES) and you'll be Doing Infosec Right in no time. If you're interested in helping out with openCERT.ca, drop a line to info@openCERT.ca Upcoming Appearances: James and Dave at RSA e10+, also attending Shmoocon but not speaking In Closing We're thinking about doing a live podcast with audience participation - drop us a tweet or a line if you're interested  Movie Review Mikko was on stage with Eugene at DLD 2013... did it get weird? Security Blogger Awards 2013...ah hem (not like we're pandering for votes or anything, we only do that for ISC2 board seats) :) everyday is CTF! go set up a team Signing up for a SANS course? Be sure to use the code "Liquidmatrix_150" and save $150 off the course fee! Seacrest Says: "Al Roker pooped his pants. Seacrest Out!" http://www.vulture.com/2013/01/al-roker-pooped-his-pants-the-remix.html Creative Commons license: BY-NC-SA

今回は少し大人の雰囲気で、夜のバーが舞台です。見知らぬお客同士の楽しそうな会話を聞いてみましょう。女性によると、このバーのおすすめ料理は少し変わっているようですね。 番組の中ではJoeがアメリカでの飲酒年齢（the legal drinking age）について説明しています。日本では20歳でお酒が飲めるようになりますが、アメリカではどうでしょうか。 今回お借りした素材 イラスト：Open Clipart Library Download MP3 （17:00　9.8MB　初級～中級）*** Script *** (Slow speed) 02:50-05:30 (Natural speed) 12:50-14:35 M: Hey! Do you come here often? F: Sometimes. I usually like to come here on Fridays after work. M: I see. Oh, my name's Masa by the way. What's yours? F: I'm Rebecca. M: Nice to meet you. You're drinking a cocktail? Is it good? F: It's fairly good. How about you? What are you going to drink? M: Hm, maybe I'll start out with a beer. Or maybe something stronger. F: Are you a big drinker? I'm kind of weak with alcohol, so I can only drink stuff like cocktails. M: Oh, I like cocktails too. It's just been a long week at work, so I want to get a little drunk (laugh). I'm not that big of a drinker, though. F: So you don't drink often? M: No, not really. Sometimes I'll go out with friends to drink when they invite me. Tonight I was supposed to meet a friend at this bar, but they cancelled on me at the last minute. I decided to come anyways, though. Do you come out drinking by yourself often? F: (laugh) Not really. But I'm friends with the bartender here, and this bar is on my way home, so I stop by for a few drinks when I can. M: I see. This bar has a good atmosphere. It's very relaxing. F: Yep! That's another one of the reasons why I like it here. It's really a good place to come to wind down and relax. The owner here makes good snacks too. His homemade gyouzas are the best! M: Really? Maybe I should try some. I'm a bit hungry. Do they have edamame here? F: Of course. M: Maybe I should get some of those as well, Umm… are you going to order anything to eat? F: Me? Hmm, maybe some cake? Though it's unusual for a bar to serve cake, this one does. The bartender's wife makes them homemade everyday. M: Really? That sounds good as well! Ah, too many choices. Well, I guess, to start off, beer! (Written by Kimberly Cantrell)

今回は少し大人の雰囲気で、夜のバーが舞台です。見知らぬお客同士の楽しそうな会話を聞いてみましょう。女性によると、このバーのおすすめ料理は少し変わっているようですね。 番組の中ではJoeがアメリカでの飲酒年齢（the legal drinking age）について説明しています。日本では20歳でお酒が飲めるようになりますが、アメリカではどうでしょうか。 今回お借りした素材 イラスト：Open Clipart Library Download MP3 （17:00　9.8MB　初級～中級）*** Script *** (Slow speed) 02:50-05:30 (Natural speed) 12:50-14:35 M: Hey! Do you come here often? F: Sometimes. I usually like to come here on Fridays after work. M: I see. Oh, my name's Masa by the way. What's yours? F: I'm Rebecca. M: Nice to meet you. You're drinking a cocktail? Is it good? F: It's fairly good. How about you? What are you going to drink? M: Hm, maybe I'll start out with a beer. Or maybe something stronger. F: Are you a big drinker? I'm kind of weak with alcohol, so I can only drink stuff like cocktails. M: Oh, I like cocktails too. It's just been a long week at work, so I want to get a little drunk (laugh). I'm not that big of a drinker, though. F: So you don't drink often? M: No, not really. Sometimes I'll go out with friends to drink when they invite me. Tonight I was supposed to meet a friend at this bar, but they cancelled on me at the last minute. I decided to come anyways, though. Do you come out drinking by yourself often? F: (laugh) Not really. But I'm friends with the bartender here, and this bar is on my way home, so I stop by for a few drinks when I can. M: I see. This bar has a good atmosphere. It's very relaxing. F: Yep! That's another one of the reasons why I like it here. It's really a good place to come to wind down and relax. The owner here makes good snacks too. His homemade gyouzas are the best! M: Really? Maybe I should try some. I'm a bit hungry. Do they have edamame here? F: Of course. M: Maybe I should get some of those as well, Umm… are you going to order anything to eat? F: Me? Hmm, maybe some cake? Though it's unusual for a bar to serve cake, this one does. The bartender's wife makes them homemade everyday. M: Really? That sounds good as well! Ah, too many choices. Well, I guess, to start off, beer! (Written by Kimberly Cantrell)

I tend to fall asleep in the middle of things. Sometimes I'll wake up and the labtop and lamp are still on. Othertimes I wake up and there's a book on my face. This morning I woke up with my headphones on and the music still playing. I got up to open the curtains and was greeted with a sky full of clouds. The song playing in my head (this week's opener)was just the perfect song for that moment so I figured, why not, I'd make a rainy day song podcast. So either curl up with a cup of coffee or take a walk (or drive) in the rain. Enjoy. Note: This is my first podcast and my website isn't actually up yet. Playlist: “My Girls” Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion “Agoraphobia” Deerhunter -Microcastle “Each Year” Ra Ra Riot - The Rhumb Line “Beach Baby” Bon Iver - Blood Bank EP “Top Ranking” Blonde Redhead - 23 “Arms Against Atrophy” Titus Andronicus - The Airing of Grievances “Sometimes” My Bloody Valentine - Loveless “The Courtesan Has Sung” Sunset Rubdown - Random Spirit Lover “Apartment Story” The National - Boxer “Up Against the Wall” Peter Bjorn and John - Writer’s Block Photo Credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluejayway67/3223915898/