Podcasts about for lisa

In this episode, meet podcast creator, producer, and consultant https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaorkin/ (Lisa Orkin). She is a great storyteller that uses audio and sound to paint a picture for her audience. Lisa started her own podcast, then working with indie podcasts, and now bigger businesses are into it and advertising has also come into it. Her secret for storytellingLisa says that her secret to better storytelling is to paint pictures instead of words. Rather than narrating how something feels or seems, she describes how it looks -- and that’s how to successfully paint a picture in listeners’ minds. Lisa also loves to expand people’s limits by giving her audiences a nice push out of their comfort zones.  Her projectsShe is currently working on Michael Cohen’s podcast for Audio Up. She also has Project Woowoo, which is her own fun podcast. Lisa likes helping people with the creative aspects of their podcasts, especially intros and outros. Since she works with people who have been in that industry, she finds that it is super important to help them decipher what they want to say and find a way to say it in a way that is going to be attention-grabbing. AuthenticityLisa believes that it is important to have authenticity in media; people want to see who you are in all ways and that will keep people interested in you and what you have to say. People want real. And even for hosts who prefer to keep to themselves and just present information, they can still present information in a way that represents them. Find the line where comfortable, authentic, and private lay side to side -- it does take practice but you just got to do it and get out there.  Audio vs. Writing For Lisa, the difference when writing for listening is that everything has to be shorter and more precise. Use the dialog to paint a picture but in a way that also is engaging. One of the mistakes people make when they’re writing for audio is that they write something that is meant to be read. Audio sentences must be short, but also be filled with information and move the story enough without much narration or feeling tedious.  Her creative journeyLisa had all kinds of jobs before choosing the artistic path of writing. She started writing with her dad, Dick Orkin. She felt like the Radio Ranch was a family business that allowed her to grow, While she wanted to be an actor, she found that her true passion was in writing. What’s AheadLisa hopes to soon make more shows and use the medium to its fullest to tell as many stories as possible. She is ready to set off on her ideas with many great collaborators.  Connectwebsite: www.lisaorkincreative.com Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lisaorkingram/ (@lisaorkingram)

Welcome back to She Sells Radio with your host, Elyse Archer. This week, Elyse is sitting down with Lisa Woodruff, productivity specialist, home organization expert, and founder and CEO of Organize 365®. Lisa provides physical and motivational resources teaching busy women to take back control of their lives with functional systems that work. Today, Lisa is sharing with us how she built a million-dollar business in a way that felt right to her, and how we can apply that mindset to our work.    At the end of 2011, Lisa quit her job and decided it was time for her to land in her ‘forever career’ as an entrepreneur. She’s a 4th generation female college graduate and 4th generation female business owner, so it’s in her blood. She knew she had be hiding behind ‘traditional’ positions, and even though she was going in not knowing what she would sell, she knew she would scale online. However, she noticed that people in her space were making money from ads, which she couldn’t as she didn’t have the traffic to her blog. From there, she started her podcast, which now has hit over 10 million downloads. She realized over the course of this time that she is a teacher at heart. She runs everything like she is an educator, and in order to provide transformation, she had to impart actionable knowledge--which manifested, in this case, as a partnership with an online community, course, and physical product. That way, her pricing is up to her and she can quantify the value she is bringing on her own scale.    Lisa understands that she could take all the good things she’s learned and knows the impact her course, community, and product can bring. Because of that, she can cater the value she brings to women, as she understands that more often than not, women have a unique goal in their heart that they either can’t find the time to pursue or are made to feel bad when they do take action. Lisa is there to solve that. With her organization process, she can facilitate that growth.    Lisa’s business revolves around an organizational $97 “Sunday Basket.” There are 3 things you need to organize your home. The first is to eliminate your to-do list and kitchen counter paper pile. You can get 5 extra hours of your day by doing just that. Once you realize your brain is not a to-do list maker, and you can delay your decision-making to one day a week (Sunday) you find free time throughout your day. Then, throughout the 100-day course, Lisa offers, you go through your house and get it organized. For most people, it takes 3 rounds or 1 calendar year. If you remember that 5 hours you got back, that is now transformed into 12 hours a week that you didn’t use to have.    Lisa’s journey to success in sales is full of key decisions. The first thing she learned is that she didn’t want to do is set up a recurring payment model. Lisa found that the women she’s working with already have a lot on their plate that they’re trying to organize--adding a monthly payment to that only adds to the stress. A flat rate is simple, one time, and out of mind. Her pricing is high enough to deter non-interested buyers but low enough to be doable if you’re invested for life.    Number two: the value she is bringing is probably worth more than what Lisa is charging, but she avoids the “and you get THIS added on!” marketing tactic. When she started her business, she decided the price and charged it, even though she knows the true value. In not giving a discount, she solidifies her model without question. By doing this, she never needs to run sales nor teach her potential clients that you never charge full price. It’s worth having folks put off a purchase if they come when they’re 100% ready to invest in the growth they’re getting. Lisa doesn’t pressure people into buying! It’s so effective, Lisa’s only had 2 refunds--ever.    Lisa’s background in direct sales has provided her with a lot of perspective and insight into running her business now. She learned 4 things every business does:    Pink--leads & marketing  Purple--the product & VIP customers  Blue--team & personal development Green--P&L & admin tasks   She figured out that many people are REALLY good at one of these aspects, but because you may not have time to improve the other sections, your business doesn’t grow. This is a holistic approach, you need all parts of the puzzle. These are completely different skillsets, so it’s important to allocate time and energy to each color.    For Lisa and many other women, the guilt of the to-do list comes with being a woman either in a household or not. It’s not wife & mother to carve out a day to impart a system to a business. There is a mental block for some generations of women that disallow for that to happen. Once you realize you’re not a professional duster, the mental shifts towards passions. What business owner is going to listen to your podcast and worry about you cleaning baby bottles? It’s about the impact you can have on society without detriment to other aspects of your life.   Breaking through that six-figure mark for Lisa was all about those pink and purple parts of your business’s foundation. Find your weakness and reframe your perspective. Focus on sales & marketing and the leads will take care of themselves. Share and share authentically on a platform that you’re comfortable on and where your audience is.   In addition, sell your physical time. It’s that simple. From there, sell your team’s time, your business’s time, whatever. Have that space.   LINKS    https://organize365.com/ https://www.instagram.com/organize365/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisawoodruff/ https://organize365.com/podcast/

On today’s episode of Mindful Impact, Justin speaks with Lisa Winneke, host of Good News Guide. They discuss Lisa’s journey of connecting with herself in order to live a more fully expressed life, from meditation to daily check-ins, to journaling, and more. https://www.lisawinneke.com/membership Episode Highlights: Lisa Winneke is the host of Good News Guide podcast and recently launched a membership program for people who are seeking change. What makes Lisa’s heart sing at the beginning of the day is the possibility that comes with the morning. Lisa considers herself a connector and a communicator. Her intention is “How can I add value?” And how she can contribute to people throughout the day. Lisa’s transformation has been over the course of the last 14 years, after she gave birth to premature twin boys 16 years ago and became severely depressed. She felt so disconnected from herself that she didn’t know who she was. Some people can liberate themselves and express the life they want to live within a marriage, but Lisa found that although it was a good marriage, she felt she couldn’t fully liberate herself. Lisa now stands for living a fully expressed and authentic life. In hindsight, Lisa understands that she was feeling nudges and impulses that she wasn’t listening to. Lisa attended a Dr. Joe Dispenza meditation retreat, which really kicked off this phase of her journey in October 2018. Doing this work with Joe Dispenza is what led her to start the Good News Guide. Lisa does not watch the news at all, and stopped about 8 or 9 years ago. Now, she keeps informed through people, and trusting that if there’s something worth knowing, she will find out through people she knows. Lisa checks in with herself and her emotional state multiple times a day, and if she finds it dipping, she reflects to identify what shifted her energy and what she can do to fix it. Her choice to stop watching the news inspired the Good News Guide, because the definition of news is “new and noteworthy information,” and she felt she wasn’t getting that. The guests she brings onto the Good News Guide are new to a lot of people and they share things that are not taught in schools but are valuable and noteworthy pieces of information. One of her highest values is transformation. Lisa works with several coaches for different areas of her life, and it isn’t because there’s anything wrong with her or that she needs all of this extra support, but because she values transformation and growth, and chooses to work with these coaches. She has learned to see conflict as an opportunity to connect more deeply with another person. Lisa has done the Reclaim Your Wardrobe workshop more than once because what you put on your body and how it makes you feel affects your communication and the way you operate from the inside out. For Lisa, play is very important, and incorporating play into her daily routine through music or by moving her body. Justin shares that he recently had an experience playing with his 6 year old daughter in the middle of a workday that he felt completely re-energized him. What matters most is finding what play means to you alone; it doesn’t have to involve another person. What most of this is about is taking yourself out of your body and observing what’s happening to you in different situations. We seem born to naturally remain in the present moment, but we lose the ability as we get older—why does that happen? Lisa goes into every conversation she has, knowing that there will be a beautiful exchange. The first thing Lisa does in the morning is meditate for between 20-45 minutes, but her practice is constantly changing. She used to approach her meditation practice as an activity to tick off a to-do list, but now approaches it much more intentionally, as time she has given herself to connect with her soul. Lisa had a friend compose frequency music to play in the background of all her podcast episodes to help listeners better absorb the conversation. If Lisa could go back and tell her 18 year old self anything, it would be, “You’ve got this.” Lisa sets 7 alarms throughout the day to check in with herself and to reconnect and anchor back into her heart.   3 Key Points:   You are in control of your own environment and you are allowed to set boundaries about what you allow into your space and life. This is an ongoing journey, and you are constantly changing, growing, and becoming more authentic and expressed. Work on listening to the signs, signals, and nudges from that little voice inside you.   Tweetable Quotes:   “I wanted to be a demonstration of what it means to lead from our heart.” –Lisa Winneke “How can I refocus and put my attention and energy into something where I’m contributing, creating what I want to create? Because as we know, we’re creating, consciously or unconsciously, in every single moment.” –Lisa Winneke “We’re not taught at school that we’re the creator of our lives. We’re not taught at school that we have choices. We’re not taught at school that the most important thing is our relationship with the self. We’re not taught any of that.” –Lisa Winneke “We’re here in these bodies to have an evolutionary experience of what it’s like to be human.” –Lisa Winneke Resources Mentioned: Justin Francisco: Website, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube Lisa Winneke: Website, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube Built to Serve by Evan Carmichael Joe Dispenza

A Six60 mega-fan is appalled the band - which has a huge, young fanbase - has lent its image to a scratchie ticket, saying it promotes gambling to vulnerable groups.But the band says it feels the support that certain charity groups get from Lotto makes appearing on the scratchie worth it.A photograph of the five members of the band Six60 adorns Lotto's new Instant Kiwi scratchie ticket and has caused outrage among the public and fans alike.Lisa and her 11-year-old daughter are huge Six60 fans and frequently go to their shows."We listen to Six60 all the time on Spotify, we've been to the movie (about the band) a few times, we're about to head to the concert here in Wellington and have been looking forward to that for months," she said.For Lisa and her daughter, listening to music that reflected Aotearoa was a big reason they supported the band."We can really relate to the themes about family, being strong in your identity, and, we are Māori. There are many members of the band that whakapapa. We love that we can relate to the band and the music."But when Lisa saw Six60 promoting a scratchie with the members' faces on it she was shocked and disappointed.Especially as she had witnessed the harm gambling could have on whānau and communities."Six60 is the most popular band in Aotearoa right now. So for them to be using their band to promote gambling is what I am most disappointed about."Lisa said the band's reach had also expanded to rangitahi Māori with its release of waiata.In the band's post on social media, it said profits from the scratchy sales would go towards supporting charities Raukatauri Music Therapy Centre and StarJam NZ and Heart Kids NZ.Lisa said there were much better options for Six60 to raise money, including a benefit concert or donation boxes at shows.Everyone made mistakes, she said, but she hoped the band would reflect on its decision to promote gambling.Gambling Problem Foundation spokesperson Andree Froude was equally disappointed and worried about the message it sent to young fans."They're seeing their favourite band on a gambling product, which not only serves to normalise gambling, but could encourage them to buy the product."Froude said scratchies could be particularly addictive because they could create a sense of instant gratification.Six60 needed to seriously consider the harm this could cause, she said."Although they are supporting really worthwhile causes, that doesn't make it right. We need to also think about where the money is coming from, rather than where it is going. It is often the vulnerable who are impacted the most."The Advertising Standards Authority said no complaints had yet been laid over the advertising.Its chief executive Hilary Souter said there were rules against advertising gambling products to young people but it was beyond her scope to say if advertising of the scratchie breached those."The code requires a high standard of social responsibility. So extra care needs to be taken when promoting these products."Anyone who was concerned about the advertising could lay a complaint through the Authority's website, she said.Lotto, Six60 respondIn a statement, Lotto said "it exists to generate essential funding for community groups and organisations around the country, with 100 percent of Lotto NZ's profits supporting thousands of good causes each year."As a successful New Zealand band enjoyed by a broad adult audience and with a strong community purpose, Lotto NZ believes Six60 was a natural fit for Instant Kiwi."It said the tickets were designed in accordance with industry standards and that all Instant Kiwi ads target only those over the age of 25 years old.However, the band's Facebook page, where the scratchie was promoted, has 360,000 followers.Lotto didn't respond to questions over whether Six60 was subject to Lotto's own advertising standards.In a statement, the band said it was aware of the possibility of criticism when it was approached by Lot...

We have all heard about the Opioid Crisis but listen here as a mom painfully recounts her final days before her son passed away from an overdose. Learn what she had to go through, what could have been done differently, and the major overhaul needed within the addiction/treatment sector. For Lisa and for everyone that has lost a loved one to an overdose, we can do better and we are working to change the broken system. Thank you for your bravery, honesty, and love for your son.Lisa has been involved with youturn since the very beginning and is an active volunteer with FAVOR Greenville. She is helping other families deal with their grief and is hoping to change the way families are treated within the addiction/recovery world.

Shunia is a duo that combines addictive melodies, ancient chants and polycultural rhythms into a sound that feels both new and timeless. Their music captures and conveys deep energies and spirit. The state of "shunia" means stillness, receptivity. A stillness of power, not passivity. Shunia's members, Lisa Reagan and Suzanne Jackson, combine their influences, inspirations and experiences to form genre-defying music with the power to transform and to connect you to the energy within and around you. It can put you in touch with something as simple as your five senses or as mysterious as the infinite. Experience the music of Shunia, it will transport you. In today's new episode, Lisa Reagan shares her journey to Shunia through yoga and chanting, how she released control and allowed a magical world to open up before her, and how she and Suzanne came together. As Lisa so beautifully shares, she realized in the end there really is no other choice than to trust the process, and to let go and trust the higher intelligence that keeps this whole universe going. For Lisa, it meant to believe in something out there that was so great, that all she had to do was get out of the way and allow that intelligence to come through and guide her. Lisa's story is a beautiful reminder of the power of releasing fear, allowing energy to flow through us, and what happens when we trust the sacred worlds that exist within. It's this experience and this knowing that inspired Lisa to start the group Shunia, because she wanted to share this music with others and give them the gift of this magical tool of chanting and sound. To learn more about Lisa and Suzanne of Shunia visit their website https://shuniasound.com and on Instagram @shuniasound Facebook @shuniasound on YouTube here and on Spotify here You can tune into two released tracks in advance of their self-titled album, SHUNIA (album available Jan. 15, 2021): “Sa Re Sa Sa” YouTube: https://youtu.be/7VJ0Kqz_Y30 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/6wGa86EwJZQgi2wCpPnya9?si=4tMIev5pSai70MfUn5RpEA “Breeze at Dawn” YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/embed/0_F88VuYObY Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/1cpv1ZnsMpsBYtPTQIUdnq Stories of Inspiring Joy is a production of Seek The Joy Media and created by Sydney Weiss. To learn more and submit your story, click here. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sydney-weiss/message

On this week's show, Array of Hope creator Mario Costabile joins us to discuss how dynamic virtual retreats and events like "Rise Up" can draw the Church closer to God and one another. About Mario Costabile: Mario Costabile is the Executive Director of Array of Hope. A devout Catholic and family man, Mario has been a successful producer for music, film, and television for over 35 years, having worked for such organizations as MTV, VH1, Discovery Channel, Sony Music, and Def Jam Records. Mario is committed to utilizing his talents to do God's will in the development of Array of Hope and its vision to unite families and help them grow closer to God. About Array of Hope: Array of Hope has created "Rise Up", a one-of-a-kind digital event personalized for parishes, schools, and other Catholic organizations seeking to catechize and evangelize in a COVID-19 reality. Rise Up provides a remote experience that is dynamic, inspirational, and interactive, making the attendee truly part of the event. It enables parishes or dioceses to plan with more stability in the midst of the uncertainties of what reopening will look like.  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, Becky Eldridge is here to discuss her new Loyola Press book The Inner Chapel: Embracing the Promises of God as she offers insights and prayer practices to help us grow ever closer to God. About Becky Eldridge: Becky is an Ignatian-trained spiritual director, retreat facilitator, and writer, with nearly twenty years of ministry experience within the Catholic Church. She is the author of the Busy Lives and Restless Souls (2017) and The Inner Chapel (2020). Her greatest joy is sharing life with her husband, Chris, and her children, Brady, Abby, and Mary. Visit her at beckyeldredge.com. About The Inner Chapel: In her recent book, The Inner Chapel: Embracing the Promises of God, Becky Eldredge offers down-to-earth stories, prayer reflections, and encouragement for spiritual growth and a deeper walk with Christ. While offering practices on how to enter the inner chapel, the place within where God meets us, each chapter provides an opportunity to reflect on a certain promise of God.   Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, Jessica Ptomey, author of the book Home in the Church: Living an Embodied Catholic Faith, invites listeners to consider their own faith perspectives by sharing her personal journey into the Catholic Church. About Jessica Ptomey: Jessica Ptomey is a Catholic convert, wife, mom, writer, Communications scholar and professor, and homeschooler. She blogs at jessicaptomey.com. She is the author of Home in the Church: Living an Embodied Catholic Faith, and her research in inter-faith dialogue has been published in the Journal of Communication and Religion (JCR). She is also the co-host with her husband Mike of The Catholic Reading Challenge podcast. About Home in the Church: Home in the Church calls Catholics living in the modern world back to a distinctly Catholic way of living and vision of Mother Church as the home on earth that is leading them to their heavenly home. Catholic Convert, Jessica Ptomey, describes her journey to a more embodied Christian faith in the Catholic Church, and she invites readers to the same experience. She discusses the embodied nature of faith in the home, in the celebrations of the liturgical calendar, in the liturgy of the Mass, in personal prayer, in the intercession of the saints, in the sacraments, and in a redemptive view of suffering.  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, Fr. Sebastian Walshe, author of the new book Understanding Marriage & Family: A Catholic Perspective, offers pastoral thoughts on contemporary marriage and family life. About Fr. Sebastian Walshe: Originally from Pasadena, Fr. Sebastian Walshe is a Norbertine Canon of the Abbey of St. Michael in the Diocese of Orange, California, where he is the dean of studies for the seminary program. After completing his studies at Thomas Aquinas College in California, he continued studies at The Catholic University of America in Washington D.C., receiving a license in Philosophy. Later, he attended the Pontifical University of St. Thomas at Rome (the Angelicum) where he received a Masters in Sacred Theology and a Doctorate in Philosophy. About Understanding Marriage & Family: A Catholic Perspective: In this book Fr. Sebastian explains and defends the traditional understandings of marriage and family so that the goodness and beauty of marriage and family can once again shine forth. In the first part of the book, he clarifies and defends the definitions of marriage and family and contrasts them with the alternative proposals of modern society. Marriage and family are natural and necessary consequences of human nature: thus marriage is not merely a social construct, but something which fulfills the deepest inclinations of human nature. In the second part of the book, he shows how marriage and the relationships within the family are intrinsically and sacramentally related to the principal mysteries of the Catholic faith. In the third part of the book, he shows how family life at both the natural and supernatural levels can be fostered, preserved, and healed.  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, Cathy Gilmore, creator of Tiny Virtue Heroes, helps us understand how even small creatures can teach us to be virtuous superheroes! About Cathy Gilmore: “Mrs. Virtue Lady” Cathy Gilmore is an award-winning children's author, educator, and virtue advocate. Her passion is to help families grow virtue-strong in simple, creative, and JOYFUL ways. About Tiny Virtue Heroes: Tiny Virtue Heroes are pretend friends who turn children’s IMAGINATION into a sacred training space, in which everyday habits are powered by God’s grace to become real-life super-powers! These animal and insect characters are friendly “sidekick” storytellers, who introduce kids to Virtue Heroes from the Bible and from the Virtue Mission Regions of the world. Pretending with the Virtue Heroes can make children virtue-STRONG! One by one, a series of storybooks are emerging to bring these characters to life in an especially vivid way. The first story, A Mouse and a Miracle, is available now!  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, Dr. Joseph White offers encouragement and support for our spiritual journey as we discuss his new Our Sunday Visitor book Listening for God in Everyday Life. About Dr. Joseph White: Dr. Joseph White is a child and family psychologist and Director of Catechetical Resources for OSV Publishing. He is the author of 11 books, including the newly-released Listening for God in Everyday Life. About Listening for God in Everyday Life: God is speaking to us all the time, but we have to learn to hear his voice. Drawing on his personal experience, Joseph reveals the means God uses to speak directly to our hearts. Some of these may even surprise you! They include Silence, Gifts and Talents, Scripture, Creation, Humor, Tradition, Art, Liturgy, Saints, Struggle, Children, Relationship, and People in Need. When we learn to hear it, God's voice opens our hearts to his love, deepening our relationship with the one who knows us better than we know ourselves. How is God speaking to you? Learn more at Our Sunday Visitor.  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

Ascorbic acid or vitamin C is a known antioxidant. Clinicians have conducted numerous studies to discover its role and effectiveness on life-threatening diseases such as sepsis, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), cancer and COVID-19. Dr Alpha 'Berry' Fowler joins us in this episode to share his work on vitamin C and its role in improving the survival of critically ill patients. He also talks about ongoing trials on vitamin C and its possible benefits on COVID patients. If you want to know more about the research backing up the success of vitamin C in disease treatment, then this episode is for you.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Learn the mechanism of sepsis in lung disease. Discover the role of vitamin C in treating patients with sepsis and ARDS. Find out more about past and ongoing trials on vitamin C.   Resources Learn about Dr Fowler's Phase 1 safety trial of IV vitamin C in patients with severe sepsis. Explanation lecture of the CITRIS-ALI study by Dr Fowler JAMA publication on CITRIS-ALI Article on the sequential organ failure assessment (SOFA) scores and mortality of patients involved in the CITRIS-ALI trials Dr Paul Marik's protocol for sepsis using vitamin C and steroids   Episode Highlights [04:02] How Dr Fowler's Research on Bacterial Sepsis Began Dr Fowler started working on mouse models to investigate sepsis. A solution made from mouse pellets was injected into ten mice, five of which received a treatment of vitamin C. The septic mice in the control group all died while those treated with vitamin C were crawling around, drinking water and eating. Dr Fowler then started using animal models to determine how vitamin C treats sepsis. [09:05] How Sepsis Damages the Lungs In sepsis, the lung barrier is injured. The progression of sepsis traps activated neutrophils in the capillary space of the lungs. Activated neutrophils release their DNA and enzymes, damaging the capillaries. Plasma then fills the air spaces, causing the patient to drown in their fluid. [09:34] The Role of Vitamin C in a Septic Lung In vitamin C-treated mice, the lung’s barrier function is preserved. Vitamin C stops neutrophils from disgorging their DNA into the extracellular space. Free DNA has become a marker to predict mortality. Blood reanalysis showed vitamin C lowered free DNA circulation as a result. Vitamin C completely inhibits the expression and appearance of inflammatory proteins. [16:15] Phase 1 Safety Trial Outcomes In a randomised, blinded trial, 24 patients were enrolled to determine the safety of vitamin C. Organ failure score was tracked in all patients. The higher the score, the higher the incidence of mortality. Patients treated with vitamin C saw a dramatic and significant reduction in their organ failure score. Vitamin C also improved their chance of survival. Intermittent infusion of vitamin C every 6 hours could get the plasma level up to 3000 times the normal level. [25:47] Phase 2 Proof-of-Concept Trial Outcomes Patients enrolled in the study had septic ARDS. The vitamin C treatment resulted in no adverse event. After 96 hours, 19 of 83 placebo patients died while only 4 of 84 patients with vitamin C died. Upon follow-up after 28 days, 46% of placebo patients died while only 30% of treatment patients died. This was the first blinded trial to show vitamin C’s impact on the mortality of patients with ARDS. [28:17] Explaining the Inconsistency of the SOFA Score Jean-Louis Vincent created the SOFA score. Jean-Louis Vincent sent a letter to the editors of Dr Fowler's work that the data was incorrectly analysed. Reanalysis showed the patients who died had the top SOFA score. Vitamin C significantly impacted organ failure scores. Vitamin C treatment resulted in a significant number of ICU-free days, improved mortality and more hospital-free days at day 60. [36:05] Is There Another Trial Underway? The NIH tasked the Prevention and Early Treatment of Acute Lung Injury (PETAL) Network to turn towards COVID treatment.  Dr Fowler started a trial on vitamin C as a treatment for patients with early COVID pneumonia, and the results are dramatic. There is another trial for sepsis and vitamin C planned by the PETAL Network involving 1000 patients across 69 medical centres. [39:48] Why Larger Doses of Vitamin C Are Not Administered The primary concern for higher doses of vitamin C is the formation of renal stones. A safety trial is first recommended before vitamin C treatment for COVID pneumonia can begin.    7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘The cage that the mice got the sepsis and the vitamin C, they were all crawling around, drinking water and eating. And I knew at that point that we had stumbled on something pretty significant’. ‘One of the first things we found was that the lungs of the treated mice that were septic, they weren’t injured’. ‘Most people understand sepsis as being a bacterial infection, but they don't understand that it's actually taking all the organs and causing oxidative damage to multiple organs, not just the lungs’. ‘We had kind of a basic grasp on the immune system and how vitamin C could alter the septic immune response and how vitamin C could protect the lung’. ‘Vitamin C was actually improving the possibility of survival’. ‘The amount of vitamin C that you administer is critical. Dose matters’. ‘You’re going to save not only thousands and eventually more — hundreds and thousands of lives. You’re going to reduce hospital bills enormously’.   About Dr Fowler In his 35 years of service at VCU, Alpha A. ‘Berry’ Fowler, M.D., Professor of Medicine and Director, VCU Johnson Center for Critical Care and Pulmonary Research, has had a profound influence at VCU and beyond. Considering his robust grant support and over 300 publications and abstracts in clinical areas including adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and sepsis, he might well be lauded for that alone.  Likewise, with over 16 years as Pulmonary Disease and Critical Care Medicine (PDCCM) Division Chair, with numerous ‘Top Doc’ awards and other honours, his pursuit of excellence in clinical care, impacting thousands of patients and their families, might well be the highlight of most careers.  To learn more about Dr Fowler’s research on vitamin C, you may contact him at 804-828-9071 or send a message to alpha.fowler@vcuhealth.org.    Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your friends so that they can learn more about vitamin C. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. If you would like to work with Lisa one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries,  to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation with Lisa here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations Lisa's latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how a mother and daughter defied the odds after an aneurysm left Lisa’s mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74 and the medical professionals told her there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Lisa used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and to bring her mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ For Lisa’s other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling her ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books. Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for Lisa and Neil’s online run training coaching. For their epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/. For Lisa’s gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Hi everyone and welcome to Pushing the Limits. This week I have an exciting interview with intensive care medicine doctor, Dr Berry Fowler, who is an intensivist from the Virginia Commonwealth University. The director of the VCU unit via 35 years of service at the VCU Johnson Center for Critical Care and Pulmonary Research. And he's also the author of a number of studies around vitamin C. So today we're continuing that conversation that we've been having in the last few weeks around the importance of vitamin C. Last week, we had Professor Margreet Vissers on, from Otago University, talking about—who worked with vitamin C in cancer. She's been studying this for 20 years. And Dr Berry Fowler has been studying vitamin C in regards to sepsis and pneumonia and how to use it in COVID. And he's been researching in this area with vitamin C for over 15 years. So some really amazing insights into this incredible vitamin and how it can help with all of these things. So please don't miss this episode. If you enjoy the content, please share it with your family and friends. You know, there’s some important messages that we're wanting to get out in this vitamin C thing that I've been doing, because I lost my father recently and this would have been a major player and I was desperate to get him help with intravenous vitamin C, and I was unable to until way too late. And so I'm desperately wanting to get out the information about this research about the clinical studies that have been done, the research that's been done, to share this really important information.  As always, I really appreciate a rating or review for the show. If you can do that, that'd be so so appreciated. And if you've got any questions, please email me at support@lisa tamati.com, if you want to discuss anything that was brought up in these topics, in this podcast. I'm also doing some one on one consultations. I have a limited number of spaces available for people who are wanting to work with me one on one. If you are facing difficulties in areas from whether it be around some of your health aspects like head injuries, obviously I've spent five years researching head injuries. I have a lot of knowledge around vitamin C. I have a lot of knowledge around biohacking, around epigenetics trained as an epigenetics coach, gene testing, and so on. And I work with a very small number of people who are needing help with these areas. As well as of course run coaching and mindset in high performance. So if you're wanting to get some one on one support with me, please reach out to me it's lisa@lisatamati.com. And I can send you the information there. Right over to the show now with Dr Barry fellow who is sitting in Virginia in the USA. Well welcome everybody to Pushing the Limits. This week. I have a very special interview continuing our series around intravenous vitamin C or vitamin C in general. I have Dr Barry Fowler with me, who is sitting in Virginia and Dr Fowler has agreed to come and have a little chat today about his work in this area. Dr Fowler, I've done a wonderful extra introduction. So we won't go into all your amazing credentials and your achievements, of which there have been many. But Dr Fowler, can you just give us a little bit of background? You are the director of the VCU Virginia University over in the States. Can you tell us a little bit about your work and your background? Dr Berry Fowler: Okay, well, I am professor of medicine in the Division of Pulmonary Disease and Critical Care Medicine and I'm one of the ancient doctors in the division, just turning 71 last week. I trained at the Medical College of Georgia in the US, then went to the Medical College of Virginia in the US, then went to the University of Colorado for pulmonary and critical care disease training, and then came back and joined the faculty at Virginia Commonwealth University which used to be the Medical College of Virginia, it's now VCU, in 1982 and I've been here ever since. Lisa: Wow. Dr Berry: I rose slowly through the ranks. I led the pulmonary division for a number of years, for approximately 17 years, and then stepped aside in 2016. And all during this time, at least for 13 years now, we've had this interest in vitamin C. And it's interesting how our interest in vitamin C developed. It first started at a very molecular level where we were studying cardiac ischemia, but some of the heart attendings. And then slowly began to get back to what we have been doing for years which was bacterial sepsis. And we had some molecular reasons that drove us towards vitamin C. And so first thing we did was we created an animal model of sepsis. And let me explain that. It was pretty straightforward to create. We had 30 gram mice and we went to the mouse cage and collected mouse pellets. Then took them to the laboratory and sonicated them really hard until it became a solution. Lisa:  So this is the fecal matter. Yes. Dr Berry: And we would take that solution and centrifuge it really hard so that all the solid matter went to the bottom of the tube and we just took off the liquid from the top, which contained multiple different kinds of organisms. Lisa:  So all the bacteria. Yes. Dr Berry: Yes. And so we took that, put it in the refrigerator overnight and then came in the next morning. And we had 10 mice. We had 5 control mice and then 5 treatment mice. So all the mice first were injected into their peritoneal space, you mentioned that earlier, with a tenth of an mL of this solution containing all this bacteria. And so all 10 mice. And then in the mice that were going to receive the vitamin C, we injected a tenth of an mL, which was 200 micrograms per gram of bodyweight of the mice and then closed off the light. By that point, it was about 4:00 in the afternoon. And just let the mice sit in the laboratory where we had left them and I always get to work at 6:00 in the morning and I was thinking, ‘Holy cow, I got to see what's going on.’ And so I went into the lab where we had the mice and the cage that was the control mice that were septic. They were all dead. In the cage that the mice got the sepsis and the vitamin C, they were all crawling around drinking water and eating. Lisa:  Wow. Dr Berry: And I knew at that point that we had stumbled on something pretty significant. This take us back to around 2010. Maybe 2009. My laboratory has had this intense interest in sepsis ever since I finished my training at the University of Colorado. And so what we decided is that we would begin to use the treatment animals and some control animals to determine exactly how vitamin C was working. Lisa:  To look at the molecular, the mechanism of action. Why is this happening? Why are they surviving better? Dr Berry: So what we did was—in these studies, we were always comparing the control mice to the treated mice. And one of the first things we found was that the lungs of the treated mice that were septic, they weren't injured. Lisa:  Wow. Dr Berry: And we have a number of ways to determine the way a lung is injured. One of the things that happens in sepsis, and this might have been what you and I were talking about earlier, is the lungs barrier function, which is the ability to keep the blood in the blood and keep the air in the air. Lisa:  Yes. Dr Berry: It gets injured. And so the bloodstream floods into the airspaces of the lung. Lisa: And fills it. Dr Berry: Yes. And one of the things we discovered was lung barrier function was preserved and the vitamin C treated septic mice. Lisa: Wow. So you're perceiving that it’s stopping the plasma and the neutrophils getting into the alveolar space. Dr Berry: Exactly.  Lisa: And the NET— of one of your lectures, you talk about neutrophil extracellular traps (NET). Is that a part of the barrier function?  Dr: Berry: Very nice. When are you starting medical school? Lisa: Thank you, Dr Fowler. Dr Berry: So what happens as sepsis progresses is that there are a bunch of molecules that live in the capillaries of the lung that begin to get expressed. And what they do is they trap neutrophils that are activated in the capillary space of the lung. And one of the things that happens in a highly activated neutrophil is they disgorge their DNA and all of the enzyme systems inside a neutrophil begin to damage the capillaries. And then what happens as the capillaries get injured, the plasma from the lung, just a vein from the bloodstream, just flows into the lungs. Lisa: So you’re basically lost—it's like your skin barrier, if you like, between the ear and your insides is disintegrating. Dr Berry: Well, one injury from sepsis is like drowning. Lisa: Wow, so you fill it with your own fluid. Dr Berry: The airspaces of the lung fill up with your own plasma. Lisa: So when you have, cause sepsis—I don't think most people are not aware of the progression of sepsis to acute respiratory distress syndrome. That this is a sort of a linear progression that happens, isn't it? That you actually get lung—because most people understand sepsis as being a bacterial infection but they don't understand that it's actually taking all the organs and causing oxidative damage to multiple organs, not just the lungs, but particularly the lungs. And so this is a very important finding that what you've had here because this means that if you can stop the vitamin C, if the vitamin C can stop the neutrophils from disgorging their own DNA into the extracellular space, which is then, that's in a marker, isn't it? That cell-free DNA, when you take a plasma drawn and you see that cell-free DNA floating around at a certain level, that's a predictor of mortality, isn't it? Dr Berry: Listen, you've done some fabulous reading. But let me just tell you, it's been known for several years that in septic individuals, one of the unfortunate things that will predict mortality is how high the cell-free DNA arises in the circulation. And I don't want to jump too far here, but I will tell you and the vitamin C trial that we reported one year ago this month, that when we reanalyzed the blood from those individuals, we found that vitamin C dramatically lowered the cell-free DNA in the treated patients. Lisa: Wow. That was in the CITRIS-ALI study? Dr Berry: Exactly. Lisa: Oh, okay. That's a new finding from that study because, yes, we will go through that progression of how you got to do that study. So let's bookmark that for a moment and backtrack because that is a very important finding for that study. So let’s backtrack a little bit. So we are talking about vitamin C being able to protect the lungs if we put it very simply and protect the barrier function of the lungs, stop the neutrophils from disgorging the DNA and causing these traps, which is a predictor of mortality. What are other things is vitamin C doing? And why is a septic patient, without fail, going to be very low in vitamin C? So you’re using that for Vitamin C. Dr Berry: I'll get to that in a minute. But what we demonstrated in a huge number of murine mouse studies is that the septic lung in a control animal, the septic lung began to express many inflammatory proteins. And that's just your endogenous immune system trying to protect itself. But we showed in the next cage, in the septic mice that we had treated with Vitamin C, that the expression and the appearance of those inflammatory proteins was totally inhibited completely.  Lisa: Wow. Dr Berry: Yes. The idea of leaping from preclinical animal studies into humans was that we had kind of a basic grasp on the immune system and how Vitamin C could alter the septic immune response and how Vitamin C could protect the lung. Well, protecting the lung in terms of septic critical illness is very, very important. Lisa: Absolutely. And so then you went to a phase one safety trial, which was really to look at some basic markers. Is this going to be damaging for people if they get vitamin C and look at hypertension? And is it going to affect the kidneys and so on. I think some of those safety mechanisms. Can you tell us a little bit about that phase one safety trial and then the outcomes of that trial? Dr Berry: Well, I can tell you, I had this really close colleague. His office sat right next to mine. He's a molecular biologist, basic scientist. And after we'd done all these murine studies, one day he walked in, he looked at me, said, ‘Fowler, this needs to go into the hospital. We've developed all this data. You've got to make it happen to get it into the hospital’. We designed this little safety trial, enrolled 24 patients. The safety trial was randomized and it was blinded. And so half the trial was just controlled sepsis. The other half was septic patients treated with Vitamin C and we had no idea who the hell was giving vitamin C to people who were critically ill. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: And we found it had no impact. But one of the things we were shocked at, and we were just trying to define, was vitamin C safe?  Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: One of the things we tracked was what is called an Organ Failure Score. And we found that all of the patients treated with Vitamin C, their Organ Failure Score reduced dramatically and significantly. Lisa: Wow. Dr Berry: And the way Organ Failure Scores, basically you're counting numbers. A higher number is a higher incidence of mortality. Lower numbers are improved and that vitamin C was actually improving the possibility of survival. Lisa: So this is like, in my father's case, is the sepsis progressed and I was unable to get him Vitamin C as we discussed earlier, Dr Fowler, early enough for him to get to survive. But as I watched his sepsis progress, more and more organs started to fail. So his liver started to fail. His kidneys started to fail. His heart started to fail. And so this is the Organ Failure Score. If this person's Organ Failure Score is going up, that is a very strong predictor of mortality. Dr Berry: Yes. Lisa: Okay, so this was reduced with the people who received the Vitamin C in the small trial. Dr Berry: So what we did, we took the data, we combined it with our preclinical data, and applied to the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute. They had just published an announcement where they were asking for anybody who could think of some clever trial. And we said, ‘Well’. And so we submitted an application. What the NIH wanted, they wanted the proposal for a phase two, proof of concept trial. Lisa: Right. Dr Berry: And so what we proposed was a trial that had seven medical centers. I have friends in seven medical centers around the US. And with this application in and that was I guess you guys don't remember Hurricane Sandy. Lisa: Yes, I do. Dr Berry: Hurricane Sandy was just—it killed the Atlantic Coast of the US. And the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute happens to sit on the Atlantic Coast in Washington, D.C. And it was a year and a half before we found out that we had received the highest priority score because of the application that we had submitted. And the NIH gave us 3.2 million dollars to do a multicenter, randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled trial, proposing to administer 50 milligrams per kilogram of intravenous Vitamin C every six hours for ninety six hours. Patients were continuously receiving vitamin C. Lisa: Can you explain why that continuous topping up that level is important every six hours? Dr Berry: That's a great question. So from the safety trial that we had performed, we analyzed the plasma Vitamin C levels that we had achieved by infusing. So basically someone your size, for example, would probably get maybe 3 1/2 grams intravenously every six hours for ninety six hours. And what we showed was, we could get the plasma level up to basically three thousand times the normal plasma level. So from a normal diet, human plasma levels of vitamin C are about 70 to 80 micromolar. When you give the protocol that we had settled with, we got the Vitamin C levels up to five millimolar. Lisa: Wow. Dr Berry: Yes. And so that's what we were shooting for in this NIH trial. And that's what we did. We charged into it, the trial. What we had proposed again, was the Organ Failure Score as well as the two biomarkers. We also proposed in the secondary outcomes, days on mechanical ventilation. Lisa: Yes, which is hugely important. Dr Berry: And what we were studying specifically, was patients who were septic, who had gone on to develop acute lung injury called Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, ARDS. And so when a patient was septic, like your father, we would become a fly on the wall and visit the patient every day until a lung injury developed. And that's when they would get randomized. Lisa: This was a critical—from my analysis of the data, that was a critical thing in the phase. So you had to wait until I basically had developed ARDS before you were able to put them. So this wasn't really a sepsis trial, but more of an ARDS trial. So the progression of the sickness comes into play here, doesn't it? If you’ve gone through day one, like in the phase... Dr Berry: In the safety trial... Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: The second aseptic individual walked in the door, that's when they got random. Lisa: Which is a much better, more effective with the timing. Dr Berry: We had a couple of patients who got Vitamin C in the emergency room. Lisa: Yes, wow.  Dr Berry: You know you have to get informed consent. You have to get the pharmacy on board and get the patient enthused. Lisa: I wish I'd had you tending to my father. We could have had that from the moment he got to the emergency. That would have been, I think we would have had a different outcome. But so this was a key point that you had to wait until I had developed ARDS. So in this CITRIS-ALI trial, so here you have, I think it was 47 patients in the control and 47 in the intervention group, was it right? Dr Berry: 83. And 84 in the Vitamin C treatment. Lisa: Oh, 83. I'm sorry. Sorry. So 167. One of the big questions I had in my— why was mortality not one of the primary objectives of the study? Dr Berry: That has been the most frequent question. When we answered the NIH, they had put out a program called, UM1, and we applied to the UM1 program and they were not interested in mortality as a primary outcome. Part of it was this. There had been hundreds of sepsis trials and nobody had ever shown any impact on a treatment for sepsis. And so NIH didn't want to get burned again so they said that they wanted a physiological outcome. That was the Organ Failure Score. And they wanted a biochemical outcome. Those were the biomarkers. Lisa: It's the C-reactive protein, procalcitonin and thrombomodulin. And yes. So the reasoning was that we don't want to shoot for the stars here and automatically hope for a decrease in mortality and a decrease of days in hospital. We're going to go for something else just to see if this has legs, so to speak, if this treatment is possible, possibly going to work. And that's why they went for the safer scores, rather than the mortality. Looking back, do you think... Dr Berry: By the way, we haven't talked about this yet, but SOFA stand for Sequential Organ Failure Assessment Score. Lisa: Thank you. Yes, it's amazing the jargon that you pick up and then forget that you haven't explained yourself. So what actually was the outcome? This was a seven multicenter trial. You did a double blinded. This was incredibly important because I know Dr Paul Marik had also done a study with intravenous Vitamin C, thiamine, and hydrocortisone. And one of the criticisms that was thrown at him was that it wasn’t a double blind, randomized controlled trial, so it didn't have any meaning, which is absolutely tragic. So this was—what was the outcomes of this phase two trial? Dr Berry: So we enrolled 170 patients. One of the placebo patients we had to take out because that patient did not have septic ARDS. They had Acute Eosinophilic Pneumonia. That's something else to discuss later. And then in the Vitamin C arm, we had two patients with Acute Leukemia who had no coagulation in their bloodstream and they were hemorrhaging into their lung and that was not sepsis. So as I mentioned, we had 83 in the control placebo and 84 in the vitamin C-treated group. First of all, we saw no, and I emphasize capital N-O, adverse events. There was not a single adverse event.  Lisa: Exactly. Dr Berry: All right. And so what we showed was in 96 hours, placebo patients in the trial, 19 of 83 died within 96 hours. Lisa: Wow. Dr Berry: In the Vitamin C group, 4 of 84 patients died. And if you look at the statistics and the analysis of that, the difference is P=0.0007. We then followed the patients out because in sepsis trials, there's always this demand to see what is happening to a patient at 28 days. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: And what we showed was 46% of placebo patients died and only 30% of the Vitamin C treated septic patients with ARDS died. Lisa: Wow, that's a huge result in my mind. Dr Berry: And that was the first trial. I'm not slapping myself on the back, but I will just tell you, that was the first trial to ever show in a blinded fashion, an impact on ARDS.  Lisa: Yes. On mortality of ARDS. Dr Berry: Yes. Lisa: And this was extremely sick people. Now, unfortunately, the SOFA scores didn't show any difference and the C-reactive protein markers didn't show any difference. Dr Berry: So let me explain. Lisa: Is it because... Yes, is it because of the mortality. Dr Berry: So we thought publishing the results of the trial in probably one of the most important journals on the planet, JAMA, which as it turns out, is a very, very conservative journal. And they had their ideas about what we could and we couldn't say. So we published, and this is very important for you to listen to and all of your listeners, we published that there was no difference in the SOFA scores at 96 hours. And immediately, letters to the editor started coming in and one of the most important letters to the editor was the person who created the SOFA score. His name is Jean-Louis Vincent in Brussels, Belgium. He told us that we had analyzed the data incorrectly and that what we were reporting was a survivorship bias. Lisa: What does that mean? Dr Berry: And what he said we needed to do, and he provided five publications where he had important statisticians tell him that analyzing the data, like we reported, as a worst rank, best rank scenario, that we had to reanalyze it so that the patients who died, what we were reporting was the SOFA scores on the people who had survived. Lisa: Not the ones who died. Dr Berry: We had not considered the SOFA score on the patients who died. Lisa: And because they died so quickly. Dr Berry: So what we did was we went back and the people who died along the way, those 19 patients, they got the top SOFA score. The patients who survived and left the unit, they got a low SOFA score. And so when we reanalyzed the data, according to the way these letters that had come in from Dr Vincent and two or three other colleagues, it turns out that Vitamin C significantly impacted the Organ Failure Score. Lisa: Wow.  Dr Berry: And then we—here's the important thing, we reported that February 25th of 2020. So you can go to JAMA, you can look it up and you can see our response to the SOFA score reanalysis. Lisa: Because this was a key factor in my father's case. They threw the CITRIS-ALI trial at me and the original data from JAMA, which said negative result, which when I analyzed... Dr Berry: That lets you know that the doctors were not reading JAMA. Lisa: Exactly. And they weren't on the up to date and they did not look at secondary outcomes and they did not look at the parameters of the score and I was not able to present the case. They had just read it briefly. Dr Berry: Let me go on. We had a strong trend to ventilator-free days and the people who got the Vitamin C, but it just missed statistical significance. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: But we had a strong significance for the people who got Vitamin C in Intensive Care Unit-free days. Lisa: Which is huge. Dr Berry: So the people who got Vitamin C had a significantly higher number of ICU-free days. There was an improved mortality. The other thing is patients who got Vitamin C had significantly more hospital-free days at day 60. Lisa: Wow. So they were actually out of the system altogether. Do you think—now this is controversial, I'm playing devil's advocate here. But do you think the fact that it costs so much for someone to be in ICU when they have sepsis—I think in America it's something like, to the order of 60,000 dollars US a day—and the medications that they are typically on are costing around 20,000 dollars a day, do you think that if you come along with Vitamin C and you start dropping the mortality rate, you start dropping the days? Is that part of the resistance to accept and acknowledge these findings, that the pharmaceutical companies are going to lose out on profit? Dr Berry: Oh no no no. No, no, no. At VCU, Virginia Commonwealth University—that Anitra knows well—the average care cost per day is about 46,000 per day because that accounts for medical care, nursing care, radiology, all laboratory data, respiratory care, caring for the ventilator. All of that is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 45 to 50,000 dollars per day. And so, if you have a treatment, first of all, that gets people out of the ICU earlier and keeps them out of the hospital, think about the impact on the cost of care. Lisa: Yes, it’d be huge. Dr Berry: But here's the other thing. There's not going to be any drug company out there who would argue with that. They are all trying to do the best they can with their different antibiotics, but the common antibiotics that are administered in an ICU when patients are septic levofloxacin, meropenem, vancomycin. Just one day of meropenem is 1500 per day. Lisa: Exactly. It's a lot of money.  Dr Berry: Yes.  Lisa: So you don't think that... Dr Berry: And listen to this. That's the cost of the drug. That's not the cost of pharmacy preparing the drug, cost of nursing administering the drug and so on and so on and so on.  Lisa: Okay, so all right. So if you can work this problem out and if you can get this in all ICUs around the world, we're going to save not only thousands and eventually more hundreds of thousands of lives, you're going to reduce the hospital bills enormously. So this is incredibly important work. And you've proven—so the statisticians proved in that phase two trial that the way that you are measuring it was incorrect because a lot of people, as you said, 19 died in those first four days in the control group and only four, so that skewed—if you like—the statistics to initially look like we hadn't had a win here. Now, that's been rescinded and you've managed to get JAMA to publish it in a different light, that the SOFA score was impacted. What has been the effect now? Have you got another trial underway or have you got one in sight? Because this work’s too important, obviously, not to be taken further into a phase three. Dr Berry: All right, so you are in New Zealand where there's not much COVID.  Lisa: No. Dr Berry: We are in the United States, where it's a pandemic, where we are close to 220,000 people who have died from the virus. We are at 50,000 new cases per day. Lisa: Oh my God. It's so...  Dr Berry: And there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,800 to 2,000 patients dying per day of COVID. And so because of that, the network that I'm part of, that unfortunately—I'm going to have to jump off and listen to it, because it's been going on since 2:00, the annual meeting of the Prevention and Early Treatment of Acute Lung Injury Network, abbreviated P-E-T-A-L, the PETAL Network. The PETAL Network was tasked by the NIH to turn sharply towards COVID treatments. Lisa: Yes. That makes sense. Dr Berry: And so we were thinking, ‘Well, maybe vitamin C to treat patients with early COVID pneumonia’. And so what we did was we started a trial. We have studied 20 patients now and that trial is complete, where patients who develop COVID infection and develop early COVID pneumonia, so it's just at the start of an oxygen requirement, are treated with Vitamin C and the results have been pretty dramatic. We are in the midst of writing that up. But again, it's a—open label trial. It's not blinded. Everybody in the world knows that an open label trial does not have the power like we did with CITRIS-ALI. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: And so what is happening at a world level is that all of the health organizations around the world have come to bear to try to design treatments for COVID pneumonia. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: And that is ongoing right now. And there are like 9 or 10 major networks in, across the world. Probably, I'm not sure if New Zealand is included in that, but Europe, the US, possibly Australia. I don't know if they commit to participating in what is called the network of networks formation. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: So right now, the next trial for patients with sepsis that's not COVID is going to be conducted by the PETAL Network where we will be probably next April, starting a trial with a thousand patients. Lisa: Wow.  Dr Berry: Using vitamin C conducted by the PETAL Network. Lisa: Gotcha. Dr Berry: And the PETAL Network has 69 medical centers. So doing a trial that would get a thousand patients can be done within a year. Lisa: Wow. So this is exciting stuff because this is hopefully you'll be able to reproduce and show a strong correlation between intravenous vitamin C and I'd like to see the decrease in the mortality rate. That would be a key factor. Some centers are already using vitamin C because as you mentioned before, there were no adverse reactions. And this is like in all of the studies that I've seen there has never— this is a low risk intervention and my argument when fighting for my father was that, ‘He's dying. There is no other options. Why can't I throw the bus in? Why can't I put intravenous Vitamin C’? And they were like, ‘You still have to go through all the ethics committees’. I had to sign off from every single doctor and every single nurse in the ICU unit of which there are many. Dr Berry: Well, let me make another statement. So Paul Marik, who was using 1.5 grams of Vitamin C, 200 milligrams of thiamine and 50 milligrams of hydrocortisone, administered every six hours. That meant that the patients were only getting 7 grams. Lisa: Very small amount. Dr Berry: In the CITRIS-ALI, I mean, some patients got 16 to 18 or 20 grams. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: According to body weights, 50 milligrams per kilogram. In the aftermath of that article that you mentioned that Marik published, there have been efforts to repeat that trial. The vitamins trial came out in January, using that and it failed. Then another trial, the ACTS trial using the Marik protocol failed. And then a trial that I just participated in called the VICTAS trial completely failed. And so the Marik protocol is not an effective treatment for sepsis. And well, look. As I think Anitra Carr mentioned to me a couple of years back, the amount of vitamin C that you administer is critical. Lisa: Absolutely. Dr Berry: So dose matters. And the adult, again, of your size, you probably weigh 120 pounds or something would probably get somewhere in the neighborhood of about 12 and a half to 13 grams, spread out over a 24-hour period. And then you would get it for four days. Lisa: Yes. And that is still a relatively low dose. Dr Berry: It is. Lisa: When I'm doing intravenous vitamin C with my mum, I did it with my dad prior and unfortunately, months prior to his aneurysm. Too little, too late. We were getting 30 grams. We get 30 grams a week. When I take my mum and niece today for an intravenous Vitamin C is a prophylactic as I try to keep her, as a 79 year old healthy, 30 grams. So why—I had this question certainly with Dr Marik’s protocol. It seemed to me to be very low, although the six hourly is obviously a very important point as well. Why not do the bigger dosages? Like in Japan, I know they did a study with up to a hundred grams of Vitamin C in a burns case, a burns trial, where they had some markers of sepsis there. Why are you not trying higher levels? Dr Berry: Let me come in here quick? Because I'm going to have to jump off in about 8 minutes. But listen to this. The major concern for those high doses of vitamin C, and if you talk to the oncologists who have been using it for years, they will give, like you said, they will give massive doses. And I'm talking massive, like in somebody with pancreatic cancer, they will get 60 to 80 grams intravenously, Monday, Wednesday and Friday for seven weeks. Lisa: Yes. Dr Berry: But the major concern, in somebody who's septic, who's hypotensive, in shock, that you're giving vitamin C, one of the major concerns is that it causes a significant rise in oxalate crystals formatiion in the kidneys. Now, I will mention here in the CITRIS trial, we had no evidence of renal stone formation. Lisa: No. And I mean, that was one of the arguments that the doctors had at me, ‘You could have damaged his kidneys’. And I said, ‘Well, the last time I looked, being dead damages your kidneys too’. To me, that wasn't even a consideration. And he had—after the very first vitamin C, and for my dad, his kidney function went from 27 percent to 33 percent. He's actually improved his kidney function overnight. And I know that's just one anecdotal case, but kidney stones are not going to kill you either. So surely that's not the most important consideration here when you've got a septic patient who is on death's doorstep. Dr Berry: With vitamin C struggling in the United States after the CITRIS trial, the Federal Food and Drug Administration, they always have to be concerned about adverse events. And we have put together a trial randomized and double blind using Vitamin C in patients with COVID-pneumonia. That's about to start. Lisa: Wonderful. Dr Berry: And we had, I unfortunately let my IND, Investigational New Drug lapse after CITRIS. And so I've had to claw our way back into the good graces of the FDA. And one of their major, major, major complaints was, ‘You're going to be forming renal stones’. And we're using the same protocol that we used in CITRIS. So FDA got their nephrologists involved and finally gave us the IND. But for us to begin treatment of COVID pneumonia, they have demanded that we first do a small safety trial to show that we are not causing any renal stone formation. We can get that done. We currently have somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 COVID patients in the MCV hospitals right now. Lisa: Wow. Well, Dr Fowler, look, I know I'd love to spend another five hours with you discussing all this because I think it's incredibly important, both for COVID and for the sepsis and for pneumonia and for obviously, for cancer. I just want to thank you for your dedication to this. I mean, you could be in retirement and sunning yourself somewhere, relaxing, but, you know... Dr Berry: That's right. Lisa: You know that this work is critically important. And I heard one of your lectures is the equivalent of two 747 planes going down every day filled with people. Dr Berry: Every day in the United States. Lisa: In the United States alone. Dr Berry: That’s just in the U.S. Lisa: Yes. And these people, thousands of families being destroyed with losing loved ones. I'm one of those, unfortunately, sitting here all the way in New Zealand. And so this work is incredibly important. So please keep going. And I'm desperate to hear what comes from this COVID clinical trials and the other sepsis trials, obviously. So thank you so much for your work, Dr Fowler, and I really appreciate you. Dr Berry: It's been wonderful meeting you and speaking with you, and your and your audience. And when you have Anitra on a couple of weeks, give her my regards. Lisa: I will definitely do that, Dr Fowler. That's been awesome. Thank you, Dr Fowler. And all the very best there in Virginia. Dr Berry: Take care. Bye. That’s it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.  

On this week's show, Trinity House community founders Soren and Ever Johnson open their hearts and their spiritual home to us. About Soren and Ever Johnson: Soren and Ever Johnson, parishioners at St. John the Apostle, Leesburg, VA, are proud parents of five children. They founded the nonprofit Trinity House Community and its Trinity House Café with a mission to inspire families to live together with God, making their homes a little taste of heaven to share with others for the renewal of faith and culture. Soren formerly served as Director of Evangelization for the Diocese of Arlington, VA, and his writing has appeared in the Washington  Post,  Columbia, and the Arlington  Catholic Herald.  Ever formerly served as Research Assistant to papal biographer George Weigel and has been published in Magnificat. They both hold M.A.s in theology and have presented at numerous conferences and workshops. About Trinity House: Co-founded and co-directed by Soren and Ever Johnson, Trinity House Community’s mission is to inspire families to live together with God, making their homes a little taste of heaven to share with others for the renewal of faith and culture. Trinity House inspires through Trinity House Café, the ministry’s public model of a Christian home since 2014 in Leesburg Va.; teaches through Heaven In Your Home Workshop, talks, and retreats; equips through a weekly Heaven In Your Home (e-)Letters and other online content, and encourages families to build their own Trinity House by connecting at monthly Gatherings. Learn more at www.trinityhousecommunity.org.   Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, author and radio host Teresa Tomeo joins us to share her timely new book Conquering Coronavirus: How Faith Can Put Your Fears to Rest. About Teresa Tomeo: Teresa Tomeo is an author, syndicated Catholic talk show host, and motivational speaker with more than 30 years of experience in TV, radio, and newspaper and spent 19 of those years working in front of a camera as a reporter/anchor in the Detroit market. In the year 2000, Teresa left the secular media to start her own speaking and communications company, Teresa Tomeo Communications, LLC. Her daily morning radio program, Catholic Connection, is produced by Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor, Michigan and now heard on over 200 Catholic stations nationwide through the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network and is also carried on Sirius/XM Satellite Radio. About Conquering Coronavirus: Whether the coronavirus still threatens you, your friends, and your family or has harmed someone you love, these pages will ease your fears, heal your wounds, quench your sorrow, and bring you the consolation God provides to all who seek Him in pestilential times like these times that are, in fact, not foreign to our ancient Faith. For in Christianity's two-thousand-year history, cruel persecutions and sudden, uncontrollable plagues like COVID-19 have time and again struck mankind, challenging Christians to rise up spiritually against evils that cannot immediately be conquered materially. Now our turn has come . . . along with the help we need to succeed. Here celebrated Catholic author and media host Teresa Tomeo has drawn forth from Scripture, the lives of the saints, and contemporary sources a healing balm for souls believers and unbelievers alike who have been shaken by the frightening evils thrust upon us by this coronavirus.   Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

Lisa is one inspiring, accomplished and grounded businesswoman.Join us as we explore leadership challenges, wins, and gender in the workplace.As President of BottomLine, Lisa Genovese supports Challenger Brands to evolve their business, creating more impact on the world around them. For Lisa, advancing a business requires more than a surface-level strategy. This is why Lisa and her team hyper-focus on their unique Impact Assessment process to uncover key insights, and help clients see what others may not. BottomLine's global team helps clients implement kick-ass strategies centred on strong market research insights that consistently improve conversion rates, increase sales, and profit margins. Lisa has helped many of her clients grow from local brands into globally recognized names. Having worked in global markets across a variety of sectors ranging from small business to large multinational brands, some of Lisa's favourite Challenger clients include Whipcord Corporation, Verge Technologies, Inc., Canada Pipeline Accessories, 3D-P, PilotsFriend (as seen on Dragons Den), Home Depot and Axia Fibernet. Continually diving deeper into the science behind Challenger Brands, Lisa uses her CDMP in digital marketing to design deeper strategies for real brand impact. When not working with Challenger Brands, she can be found travelling, skiing, hiking or enjoying the great outdoors with her husband Corey and their furchild Mickey. CONNECT WITH LISA HERE!www.wearebottomline.com/linkedin.com/in/lisamariegenovese

On this week's show, Father Edwin Leahy, O.S.B. schools us about the compelling new Quibi short-form series Benedict Men. About Father Edwin Leahy, O.S.B.: FATHER EDWIN D. LEAHY, O.S.B., became the 23rd Headmaster of Saint Benedict's Preparatory School in 1972. St. Benedict's has now grown to 747 young men, most from African American and Hispanic backgrounds, and 51 faculty members. 98% of the school’s graduates go on to college, with the most academically talented attending such colleges as Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Harvard, Notre Dame, NYU, Penn and Rutgers. Today, St. Benedict’s Prep includes a counseling center--a comprehensive mental health services department. The department is at the forefront of applied school psychology and is a resource virtually nonexistent in other urban school settings, an achievement which was featured in the documentary "The Rule" by Marylou and Jerome Bongiorno.  During Father Edwin’s tenure focused therapy groups were established for the St. Benedict's students, including Alateen for students with a loved one who abuses drugs or alcohol, and Unknown Sons for students who do not have relationships with, or knowledge of their fathers. In 2005 the Velvet Rope program was established in the Leahy House, which helps resident students deal with a variety of socio-emotional issues that impact their learning. About Benedict Men: Executive produced by Stephen Curry, Benedict Men is a documentary series that chronicles life at St. Benedict’s Preparatory School in Newark, N.J., an all-boys school founded on one core belief: "Whatever hurts my brother, hurts me.”  The series follows the school’s nationally ranked basketball team as they learn the meaning of brotherhood through academic excellence and sport.  Their value does not lie in the number of points they score, but rather what they accomplish together as a team.  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

This week Lisa sits down with Major League Baseball Player/ Ironman Athlete and Business Coach Andy Neary to discover  how Andy has taken the habits and rituals he used to compete in professional baseball and Ironman racing to help business professionals EXCEL IN BUSINESS AND LIFE.   When you mix discipline with accountability, you create massive action! The work you put in when no one is watching is the key to professional success.   Andy's Bio Andy Neary is a former Professional Baseball Player, a two-time Ironman finisher, Business Coach, and Founder of the Complete Game coaching program.   Andy's mission is to help business professionals build the mindset, habits, and rituals "off the field" that lead to all-star performance on it. It's about developing a #majorleaguemindset.   As an undersized athlete, Andy's ability to master the daily habits and rituals helped him far exceed expectations on the Pitcher's mound. He attributes all the work he put in when no one was watching, to his successful college career and the opportunity to pitch at baseball's highest level. With discipline and accountability anything is possible. Completing an Ironman race is one of the most grueling tasks on the planet. Swimming 2.4 miles, biking 112 miles, and running a marathon (26.2 miles) in one race, requires a clear mind and high-performing body.   To "show up" on race day, one must put in consistent daily work on the bike, the road, and in the pool. Andy attributes his success in Ironman competitions to the same daily habits and rituals he applied to his professional baseball career.   You can find out more about Andy and his work at www.andyneary.com      We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**

As President and CMO of FanCompass, a San Francisco-based sports technology company, Lisa Fahey is a strategic leader who brings classic experience in consumer packaged goods to the business of sport. In addition to rebranding FanCompass in 2016 and driving the company's international growth and expansion, Lisa became President of the organization in 2018. Prior to FanCompass, Lisa held leadership roles with Kraft Foods, Pepsico and pre-acquisition growth company Annie's. She has extensive background building brands to drive profitable growth and has led FanCompass to expand its product offering and increase its premier roster of professional clubs including Liverpool FC, the Cleveland Browns, Syracuse University and most recently the league-level relationships with MiLB and MLB . A graduate of Indiana University, Bloomington, Lisa received an M.B.A. from the D'Amore McKim School of Business at Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Top 4 Takeaways: Lisa's career started after she got her MBA. The MBA curriculum differed dramatically from undergrad. She went from learning about a topic to diving into the deep end of research and business practices. Hyper focused to teach critical thinking skills. For Lisa, an MBA was the key to moving into the career she wanted. Your career is a stack of building blocks. Each block represents a skill acquired or a project completed. Look at your role and ask yourself, which building blocks will I acquire from this position. Work on the blocks, name the blocks, and promote your blocks. A boss or leader can put you in the right role but no one can guide your career as much as you. On balancing family and career, Lisa took a break from the work force to focus on her family and successfully re entered the workforce at the same level. You can too. Don't focus on the gap. Focus on what you contributed in the past and what you can bring in the future. On how to level up, be true to yourself, be authentic, and take ownership and all you have done. Where do the dots of the best accomplishments of your career align? Hone in on those areas and take them to the next level. Connect with Lisa on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/faheylisa/

In this weeks episode Lisa sits down to talk with Joe Cohen serial entrepreneur, biohacker, genetics expert and founder of Self Decode a genetic testing website, Lab Test Analyzer and SelfHacked.com   They dive deep into DNA and what it can teach us about ourselves and how to use the latest in scientific information about our genes to improve our daily lives, prevent disease and improve our health.   If you are not knowledgeable about your specific genes you are just guessing in everything that affects your health. From your diet to supplements, to exercise to mood and behaviour influences, to gut health to detox abilities to cardiovascular health, even through to medications.  This world is not a "one size fits all" and having such an approach can never help us optimise our lives, our performance and health.   Learn how you can discover what your genes are doing and how to interpret them using the fantastic program and tools Joe and his team of scientists have put together.   You can find out more at https://selfdecode.com/?a_aid=lisatamati and use the code Lisa10 at checkout and if you want help with your results and implementing a personalised approach to your health visit Lisa and her team at www.lisatamati.com or email support@lisatamati.com for details on working with them.     We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**  

Today on Mushroom Hour we are excited to sit down and chat with Lisa Cutcliffe from Leeds, Yorkshire in the UK. Lisa is the founder, foraging-guide-in-chief and all-round mushroom-nut at Edulis Wild Foods. With a degree in biology, being a keen gardener, veg grower, and having a lifelong fascination with nature and wildlife, she is interested in all aspects of wild food and medicinals. As we explore the wilds of Leeds in England, we find a younger Lisa poking around the woods between classes at university. Her curiosity about using edible mushrooms in cooking led her down a pre-Internet road of discovery, seeking out information about mysterious kingdom fungi. It was the quest for her first porcini that brought her from Leeds to the "New Forest" in the South of England and set her down the path of edible mushrooms and wild food. Her love of mushrooms branched out into a love of plant foraging as she was determined to find edible foods across every season. Her journey came to a traumatic inflection point as a diving accident damaged her back and crippled her ability to go abroad and engage in the physical activity that was her passion. However, the regeneration from this experience pushed her to explore the UK Isles and rediscover herself, open up her love of wild foods and connect with an incredible community of wild mushroom and plant enthusiasts across the UK. How can foraging be used as a form of physical and emotional therapy to help us recover from trauma? Pursuing her passion for wild foods more intensively, Lisa felt the call to "find the others"! After connecting with and learning alongside other UK wild food experts, she became a founding member of the Association of Foragers - a network that provides collective support for professional foragers guided by an ethos of "Restoring Vital Connection". This influence and the community she was now a part of inspired Lisa to create her own wild foods business - Edulis Wild Foods. We'll take a walk in the shoes of a professional foraging educator and learn keen insights about the responsibility and realities of such a path. How do you know when you're ready to start teaching others? How does one balance a day job with the commitment to being a professional educator? For Lisa the most satisfying part of sharing her love of wild foods is seeing her students reconnect with nature and remember the ancestral connection they have to their land. Directed, Recorded, Produced by: Mushroom Hour(@welcome_to_mushroom_hour) Music by: Ancient Baby (https://peckthetowncrier.bandcamp.com/) Art by: Wyn Di Stefano (http://www.wyndistefano.com/) Episode ResourcesEdulis Wild Foods (website): http://www.eduliswildfood.co.uk/ Lisa Cutcliffe (IG): https://www.instagram.com/eduliswildfood/ Association of Foragers (UK): https://foragers-association.org/ Craterellus cornucopioides (mushroom): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craterellus_cornucopioides Chlorociboria aeruginascens (mushroom): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorociboria_aeruginascens

Dr Ron Hunninghake is the Chief Medical Officer of the prestigious Riordan Institute in Witchita, Kansas.   In this episode Dr Ron explains the uses and mechanisms of action of Vitamin C both oral and intravenous Vitamin  C and it's uses in cancer, sepsis, pneumonia, shingles, hepatitis to schizophrenia and mental illnesses.   They also discuss the problems facing functional medicine/orthomolecular medicine vs allopathic medicine and the pharmacological model dominant in our system today.   They elucidate the the mechanisms by which intravenous Vitamin C exerts its powerful healing abilities and discuss the latest clinical trials and work by double nobel prize winner Dr Linus Pauling and subsequent research by Dr Hugh Riordan, Dr Barry Fowler, Dr Paul Marik and others.   This is a must listen to episode for those wanting to take control of their health and who want to dive deeper into vitamin c research.   You can find out more about the Riordan Institute at  https://riordanclinic.org/ and follow their youtube channel at  https://www.youtube.com/c/RiordanClinicOnline/playlists   For the Riordan Protocol for cancer patients visit:  https://riordanclinic.org/research-study/vitamin-c-research-ivc-protocol/   Dr Ron's Bio Dr. Ron, as patients fondly refer to Ron Hunninghake, MD, is a native Kansan. He served his medical internship at Wichita's Wesley Medical Center in 1979 and completed his residency at the Smoky Hill Family Practice Program in Salina, Kansas in 1982. Dr. Ron began his career as a small-town doc in Minneapolis, Kansas where he first started teaching clinic-based wellness. Later, he joined nearby Salina Family Physicians and was instrumental in founding WellPlan, a comprehensive lifestyle modification program. Seeking even greater involvement in helping patients learn innovative ways to rebuild and maintain their health, he joined the Riordan Clinic in 1989 as its Medical Doctor. Following in the footsteps of Dr. Hugh Riordan after the Clinic founder's untimely death in 2005, Dr. Ron set about articulating the Riordan approach in seven core precepts: The primacy of the doctor/patient relationship Identify and correct the underlying causes Characterize the biochemical uniqueness of the patient as co-learner Care for the whole person Let food be thy medicine Cultivate healthy reserves The healing power of nature In addition to his full-time practice as a holistic medical doctor at the Riordan Clinic, Dr. Ron has made multiple trips to Japan, Spain, Ecuador, Columbia, New Zealand, Canada and South Korea to lecture on The Riordan IVC Protocol for Cancer. He is a past chairman of the International Schizophrenia Foundation and has been a regular presenter at their Orthomolecular Medicine Today conference that has been held annually in Canada for the past 39 years. Here at the Riordan Clinic, he has presented more than 300 lectures dealing with all facets of nutrition, lifestyle, and optimal health. He has co-authored three books on subjects including inflammation, energy-boosting supplements, and how to stop pre-diabetes.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**

Wouldn't it be great if your body came with a user manual?   Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid?   When, and how often should you be eating?   What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?   Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents.   These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.   There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalised health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home.   In this episode Lisa and Neil discuss how they use the program to help people optimise their health, performance and well-being. For more information on the epigenetics health program visit https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/ or to join Lisa and Neil on their next live epigenetics webinar register at https://epigenetics.lisatamati.com/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Thomas brought to you by Lisa Tamati.com. Well, hi everyone. And welcome back to pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you with me again and today I have my best buddy, Neil Wagstaff, new, how you doing? How are you? Very good now. And for those who don't know us, Neil is my business partner and running hot coaching. And, uh, he's also been my coach for God knows way too long, cause we're way too old now new way and have a huge history. And he's been on this podcast a number of times and we have shared, uh, many different, uh, aspects of what we do and some of their expertise. Um, certainly Neil has a huge background as an exercise physiologist and a coach, and pretty much you name it, he's done it in the fitness industry. Speaker 1: (00:54) Um, and today's topic is going to be all around all about something called epigenetics, very big word. And you probably go, what the hell is that? Well, you would have heard of DNA and how we all have different DNA that we've inherited from our mom and dad. And you might have heard of gene testing and how important this can be. And we've done a few episodes here on the podcast recently with dr. Mentor Muhammad, which was very fascinating looking at specific genes and what that means for you. But today's one is about epigenetics. So epi means above genes. So this is what influences your genes. So you're born with a code from mum and dad. You inherited genes from mom and dad. And from this, this is like your blueprint. So if you think of this about like an architect, who's done the blueprints for your house, your jeans, or your blueprints, and you build a build your house. And it's what the builder does that actually influences your genes. If you like. So this is your environment, what you eat, what you sleep. We knew how much exercise you do. Uh, what toxins you're exposed to. All of these things are actually going to affect your genes and what expresses and what doesn't. So we're going to talk you through a program that we use at running hot coaching, and we've had fantastic success with it. What it's all about and explain a little bit. So Neil, we do want to start with us Speaker 2: (02:22) As a, that's a good question. A big question. Well, a good place to start is when we were, we were personally as athlete in and, and coach, um, feeling confused as to some of the results that we were getting your training. And then as we applied the training to our, so our members that running vocation as well, wondering why we're getting different results. Um, so from a sport point of view, we started raising some pretty significant questions as why some people getting results, others weren't on exactly the same program. Um, was it down to effort or was it down to motivation or was it down to the environment they were training and how their genes were expressing? Um, so how we got to where we, where we got with it and also, which I'll get you to, to probably explain as well Lisa's we were asking more and more questions, especially when, um, around your mom's health as well. We started asking a lot of personal questions about around health questions, about, um, our family's health and then those we're working with and coaching and the same with the RJ moment have a lot more, which is why are people not getting the results that they could be and should be, and what's stopping that happening. Yeah. Speaker 1: (03:27) So it's, it's looking at, you know, um, before jeans came on the site and the science of epigenetics and DNA testing and so on, it was a one size fits all program. We were all taught. And when you studied, certainly you knew with your exercise science background, you studied stuff. If you do this, you create that adaptation. Then your body should get stronger or, or lose weight or do things, you know, calories in calories out, uh, strength training causes us response in the body and so on, but it was all a one size fits all approach. And that was all we had to go on. And then you'd have these people who got fantastic results just after the, you know, as the book says it should happen. And then you would get people who dieting for forever, uh, exercising for Africa. And this is something that I experienced as well and not getting the results that they deserved and getting very, very frustrated and wondering why the guy next door, who's eating fish and chips every night and drinking beer has got a six pack and I slugging my guts out and I'm, I'm not getting anywhere. Speaker 1: (04:32) And so this is what seemed to us into this direction. And then when my mum had her aneurysm, um, we really wanted to tailor rehabilitation plan to her genes. And we came across this program, which has really been a game changer for us in what we do as a business and in our personal lives. And it's certainly changed the trajectory of my health and Neil's as well. And we were, we were fit and strong and, and, and generally what you'd call healthy anyway, but this for us was a game changer. Wasn't it? Neil? Um, Speaker 2: (05:08) I think the aha moment for us as a, as, as I was thinking about it before we started chatting today was really understanding that 95% of how our genes express themselves is really controlled by our lifestyle and environment. So that for me, was like, ah, alright, now that really means that we, as in us individually and all the people we work with and our families are really in the driving seat, it's a bit being able to control their control, their health and how their genes, the genes express themselves. So once you realize that, and as you said in the introduction with epi, the epigenetics being outside or above, so it's the things outside and above that will affect how your genes express themselves. If we can take control of that, which we started to do, and then starting to see the results by taking control of that, all of a sudden it's like, wow, this is pretty cool. Speaker 2: (05:54) The other real significant thing was what I needed to do to get my genes expressing a certain way was very different from what you needed to do, and probably different from what your mum needed to do. And very different with the hundreds of people that were taken through the program with what they need to do. So it really did nail down for us that the, this, everything should be truly personalized. It's definitely the way health and fitness is going. It's definitely the way that medicine is going nutrition. If you are not getting a personalized approach to you or medical care to your health and fitness, do nutrition and dietary advice, then you're not getting good advice. It needs to be personalized and tailored to tailor to you. So they were definitely the aha moment so that we are now in control of what we're doing and how we're doing it. Speaker 1: (06:39) Yeah. So this has been an, it sort of give you an example from my life. So obviously being an ultra marathon runner doing absolutely stupid long distances. And I remember this sort of came home to me when I ran through New Zealand a few years back and I was running 500 kilometers away, like absolutely ridiculous amount of running, right. You know, not normal, not healthy, not recommended. Um, you know, I was putting on weight and I was like, what the hell is going on here? I was burning muscle and I was putting on fat. Um, so that was for me, like, you know, like for goodness sake, what do I have to do to get lean and, and have, um, a strong, healthy body. This obviously isn't doing it. And it was because I was sending my body into a state of panic and stress. The stress response in the body was holding on to everything. Speaker 1: (07:31) And when we looked at my jeans and I went through this program, it actually said that I would match better suited to the shorter shopper high intensity workouts. And combining that with a lot of things like yoga and Pilates to calm my, my nervous system down because I have a body that runs a lot on adrenaline. Uh, and therefore I need to calm it down. So I needed that sort of yin and yang type of training yoga on the one hand and Plavix. And on the other hand, high intensity and actually doing the super long distance slow stuff for hours on end was not optimal for my body. And when I changed that and started to do, uh, more CrossFit style workouts, more circuit training, more high intensity with medium weights for my body type, not heavy, heavy weights, then I got massive results. Uh, and this was on the quarter or at least an a quarter of what I had been doing previously. And that was like, you've got to be coming up to speak 20 years, throw it at the wrong way. And it doesn't mean that I cannot ever do an ultra marathon. It just means that if I am training for an ultra marathon, I need to approach it differently. And I also not a need to not do it back to back because that really isn't healthy. And that's what I was having a lot of, um, problems with as that, especially as I got older. Um, yeah, so let's Speaker 2: (08:48) Key thing as well as well. It's just, it's, it's allowed you and ask those, we're working with, to create a user manual for there. For that. It's not, it's not a case of, you know, you, we've what we established from the program, you to your point ultra with the money, wasn't the best thing. It just means that what we can do now is approach that from a programming point of view, a whole lot, a whole lot more wisely, Speaker 1: (09:13) It doesn't mean you cannot do your goals. It just means, okay, well, you're going to do it slightly different than, than the guy down the road. Speaker 2: (09:20) Exactly, exactly. It was probably good as well. Just following on from what you're saying there, if we, if we're just talking through and looking at the, how much impact environment does have on what you're doing, um, training wise as well. So there's some great research and studies where you've, we've looked into and discussed over the years as well, at least with studies, with identical twins, that same genes. So therefore should be identical. They look identical, but they'd been spent time in different environments. And then as a result, their phenotype, how they look and how they present when we're looking, looking at them is significantly different. Now, a lot of that is going to be driven and triggered by, um, from an environmental point of view could be stress load. It could be type of exercise, could be chronobiology or the time of day that they're doing the things, the social connection they're having either too much of, or lack of and the people around them. Speaker 2: (10:11) So those are your listen that high, and you may well been in an environment that you feel that you just thrive in and buzzing, and you can't quite put your finger on it, but you know, that it really energizes you and puts you in flow. That is your genes expressing themselves in a positive way. He will also been in environments where you're like, it just doesn't feel right here. And you feel actually leaves you feeling more unhealthy. You actually find that being in there for prolonged periods, you actually start to change body shape and put weight on because your body's been thrown into a stress response just because of the environment that you're, that you're in. So it's really, really quite fascinating. How, how important the environment is to the point that when we're programming people, now, we're not just thinking about numbers, numbers of squats, type of strength training, or how far they're running and what type of exercise they're doing. We actually think, you know, how much connection are they getting? Is there a place I, their home set up as it should be their workplace, all those things set up to positively influence their, um, their genetic expression. So, Speaker 1: (11:11) And that's like, I remember, you know, you telling someone to go home and set up their office space better with plants and so on too, because they spent a lot of time in this environment and it wasn't set up properly, and that was causing their body stress. And that made to the fact that their training wasn't getting the results. You'd go, wow, let's real. We were, you know, that's real sort of like weird, but they came back the four weeks later and going, Oh my God, well, it's different. Same age. Cause I was in an environment that I was happy in and therefore my stress levels throughout the day were lower and therefore I got better results and it has a knock on effect. And it's a cumulative thing. You know, if you are, if you're sleeping at the right times for your biology, for your genes, if you are eating at the right times. Speaker 1: (11:54) So one of the, so this is, um, this program that we are trained in and, and, uh, educated them is been something that's been developed by hundreds of scientists. So the science behind this as just absolutely phenomenal and both new and nice science nerds. So we'd like to pull everything apart and make sure that, uh, you know, all this learning that we're doing and all this sort of information makes sense. And actually as robust, as far as the clinical trials behind it, the information behind it. Uh, and it's, it's been mind blowing to, to see scientists across so many different science disciplines. And this is what is really fascinating with program that we do as it's, it's, uh, taking, not the old traditional siloed approach of, you know, one science might be embryology and another science anthropometry, and another one is neuroscience and they're all separate. Speaker 1: (12:48) This is where, uh, you know, hundreds of scientists have collaborated across 15 different science disciplines to give us and using AI artificial intelligence and these massive computing ability that we now have to be able to take, uh, information about you and your genes, which has done through a questionnaire, not done through actual DNA. Like you're not spitting into a viral in this case. Um, this is a different way. And it's collecting a teen thousand bits of data about you, your ancestry, your, uh, ratios, body, uh, parts, uh, measurements of all the body, uh, color, behave, the color of your eyes, looking at the, all the genetic markers. Do you have a widow's peak, um, his ring finger longer than your index finger, all these weird sort of, uh, measurements are taken. And what this does is it gives them information about what genes are actually in play in this person and how more importantly these are expressing right now. So that from that information, we can take the, the, the, the reports, if you like that this gives us to actually build a program that will help your entire health performance, your wellbeing, uh, and all of that into account. So it's been a, an, a, an amazing ride for us. Isn't it? Neil? Speaker 2: (14:16) Yeah, massively, massively. So all that information, it's a once, once you've got it and you throw that into, it's amazing what you can, what you can, what you can do. Some of the other examples. And once you've got that information, then one of the questions that we started the started the podcast with was just people not getting results. So imagine joining a 12 week program of some sort of the intention of losing, losing weight or changing shape, or putting on some lean tissue and totally not responding to it. So there's a lot of, lot of studies we've looked at where people are just nonresponsive and factory responders. So no response to the exercise nutrition they're using. And that could be simply speaking with information. Lisa was just talking about, there is rather than going to try, for example, bootcamp at six in the morning for 12 weeks, with a recommended nutrition and realize that throughout the process, you either don't respond or you actually changed shape by putting on adipose tissue and body fat. Speaker 2: (15:12) If you knew that that time in the morning, wasn't a good time for you to be training the type of food that you were eating. Wasn't the right type of food for you and the people you're hanging out with doing it just wasn't suiting your, your body and health site. And all of a sudden you can flip that and then join a program that actually works for your works, your body. This is where it becomes so valuable, so valuable. It takes away the trial and error. It takes away the guesswork, and really now starts to increase motivation and adherence because you're actually feeling like you're you, that's the other massive support as well is it's okay to be you. It's all right, to be unique. It's all right to be you. And there's so many messages out there in the health and wellness and fitness world that kind of points to the fact that we should be a certain way. And it's all right to be different. It's all right. To do it in a different way and follow a different path that gets you, gets you different. Speaker 1: (16:04) Yeah. I mean, I'll give you an example here of my, my husband, um, Heisley, uh, I used to make him get up at 5:00 AM and do a CrossFit workout. And, um, and this was actually a disaster for his body type. He put on weight and he didn't feel good and he didn't enjoy it. Um, and when we did the epigenetics program with him, we now understood why, because his hormones for example, are replacing themselves at that era of the morning. So I was smashing as testosterone production. So that's not a good thing ever because I was doing it at the wrong time of the day. So chronobiology is a very big piece of the puzzle. Uh, the, the type of exercise that he was doing, which was CrossFit style. So it was really hard, high intensity back to back, no breaks in between the sets type training. Speaker 1: (16:56) Now this caused and him, he's got a slow ATP, uh, replenishing in the cells is that there's a bit slower than say in my, my genetics. So he needs to be doing heavier weights, but slower, uh, set. So he needs a rest in between each set and to be doing slower, heavy weights, whereas I'm better to do sets back to back to back. So I'm getting a cardiovascular workout and muscle workout at the same time, and I can do that. Um, so when I was training him the wrong way for him, that was just causing chaos in his body, um, causing an inflammatory response, knocking down as hormones, uh, knocking his sleep patterns around because that's a time when he should be asleep at 5:00 AM in the morning, very important for his genotype. Um, and all this sort of thing was a really a bad pattern. Speaker 1: (17:48) And you would've that the discipline that he showed and the, and the hard work that he was putting in, he should be getting a results. Now he does more long distance ultra marathon type running, and that's perfectly suited to his body type and his genotype. He is very slow start to the day. So he doesn't get up early and go and smash himself. He waits to later on the day, if it's lifestyle will allow that, and we can get into working in the gray a little bit later. Um, but he's been here in the afternoon. If he does this training, he should not eat an early breakfast. He should not be eating into at least 10 o'clock if not longer. And he's more suited to doing a fasting. So overnight fasting, if he can and eating a little bit later, uh, then has his food style should be, um, two to three meals, a day, bigger meals, but two to three, uh, and he should be having a, sort of a low carb, low protein at nighttime. Speaker 1: (18:47) He doesn't, he shouldn't definitely not be eating carbs late into the night because that's really, really bad for his, uh, epigenetic type. If you like. So all of this information, now he can take that away and go, you doesn't do it all all the time. I mean, let's be honest, life gets in the way, and sometimes you want a glass of wine at night and that's fine, but he's making that choice then with the knowledge that that's not really ideal for him, but he has the ability to pick the training program that now suits his body type to work out at the right time of the day. And to do all these other things, like what time of the day is his brain going to be working best? Where does he best? So his intellectual work, when is it best to have a social interactions, all this information, um, that has really been a game changer, isn't it? Yeah. Speaker 2: (19:32) Yeah. Massively. And if I use my own personal examples on the, on the flip side, I want to be calling my system in the evening when Hayes is going to be coming into his own a little bit more. So he'll still be able to be quite low and productive personally, for me, I want to be calming my system the evening to calm my cortisol levels. Um, calm my hormones and let my, let my body body settle. I'm much better early in the morning. Um, early morning training works from my perspective. So you get quite a contrast and those of you understand or have heard about, um, somatotypes before or body shapes. So you've got your, um, ectomorph your mesomorph and you're in the morph body shapes. So the example there hazy sitting more on the endomorph side, and I'm sitting more on the X more side. Speaker 2: (20:17) So with that, you get quite different needs. So with how the body responds, my body doesn't respond well to, um, to high amounts of weight. My body would generally break my body's more rigid and more fragile haze. His body. You can put a lot more resistance through a lot more weight and hair respond very well to it. Are we better at faster or higher endurance, higher intensity? Hey, this is going to be better, a longer distance slow and steady. Now, again, once we got this information, we can know where we're no, we're at the, we've a lot about exercise and nutrition and just giving the example of how you use on three meals a day. He's, body's going to be better fasting, whereas my body will need more like five meals a day. Um, I'm less likely to, um, break my food down. So will a low amount of stomach acid. Speaker 2: (21:03) So I have to be careful that my food is well cooked and easy, easy to break down. So all these little nuggets of gold that you get, and you start to see just comparing me and Hayes, how people are very, very different. So if I were, let's look at a fasting program for long periods, um, it wouldn't be as beneficial for me, more carbs to me, cause it's going to fuel my brain more effectively for Hayes. If he was looking at fasting, he is going to be a better thing for him to be, to be doing. So all those diets and recommendations around food that are out there, people often ask me is fasting good? Yes, it is good. And it's good. It's great for most cases, a certain level for people, but it's a, what level is right. Um, and what each person, what time, um, certain people are going to be more vegetables. Speaker 2: (21:51) Certain people are gonna need more, um, more protein in their, in their diet. There's understanding all of these, all of these things. Once you got that information, you can, you can run with it, um, from a hormonal point of view as well. Um, it is going to be different hormones of relevance for each body type and health type as well. And this has a big impact on how people behave, so where we've got some massive wins and it was nice to be lost. As we talked about this lease with, with relationship wise, both with our, with me, with my wife, same with you with Hayes, with us as athlete and coach and his business partners and me with my children as well, and how we interact and communicate with those around us is a massive, massive eye-opener just to really understand more about behavior and personality as a result of the hormones were driven by. So do you want to, Speaker 1: (22:38) I went up a little bit, so we don't scrap as much as much as we used to. And you understand me better now? Yeah, because like, uh, just giving the example of me new working in the business as if like coach for many years, uh, I used to drive Neil nuts because I'm so I I'm more in the mesomorph ectomorph mesomorph area. So we have some similarities in the, in the way we like to pull things apart and ask a million questions and so on, but I'm very much an take action now, person all the time and jump in without any preparation, without any planning. And just go, go, go, go, go. Cause that's, I'm driven by driveline is my dominant hormone. Um, dopamine, we both have a problem with dopamine. We don't have enough, so we're always chasing that. So in that way, we're similar. Speaker 1: (23:25) But I used to drive Neil nuts with, I would be just tight, always after the new thing, chasing shiny objects all the time, new areas of science to go and chase or whatever. Or I was very much head through the wall as far as go hard or go home all the time and everything that I do. And with Neo, he would take a more planned approach and more strategic approach. You'd look at the bigger picture and so on. And so this caused a lot of tension in the business because I would be going ahead and doing things before he thought we were ready to be doing them. Now we understand that about each other and that he plans and does things more strategically. So what, what we've changed, the roles that each of us have, and we still have the odd time when he's like, Oh, for goodness sake, just slow down. Speaker 1: (24:17) But generally speaking, he can now let me take those roles where I'm ripping open opportunities on I'm diving into new areas for us in the future. I'm looking on the, you know, definitely got, um, good visionary skills and so on. And he is cleaning up the mess behind me and putting structure in place into the programs that we're doing and actually making things flow and work properly properly from a myth, a myth, what do you call it? Mythological and methodical approach to things. Um, and so we learned to work better and to just go, Oh, well, that's less going off the deep end again. And you know, he also can reign me in when he can see that I, because I'm so driven by dream land and chasing his own dopamine all the time when I'm starting to spin out of control and get going. Speaker 1: (25:08) Cause I had a tendency to go so hard and then crash go hard again, crash. And he can warn me now when he sees and I do listen now, I didn't always, uh, pull back, slow down. You're over-training, you're overworking. You just, just have a bit of time out. And so we can keep each other in check and I can go, come on, Neil, hurry up. We want to get this happening and, and, and can give them a bit of a bomb to get going at times when that's needed. So that's helped us work together. And the same with my husband Haisley, he's what they call a diplomat on these programs. They have different names for the different, uh, somatotypes, uh, phenotypes, and he's very slow to get everything going. Uh, so you have to give them plenty of warning. If I want to go on a, uh, I don't know, a trip or vacation or something, I better give him six months to plan for it. Speaker 1: (26:00) Or if I want a fence boat in the back garden, it's gonna take at least a year. And I, if it, if it was me, I would be like, Oh, that's a good idea. And I'd be boating it the next day. And there'll be no planning. And the feds have probably pulled up for library in a couple of years, whereas Haisley would take two years to vote, but it will be done properly if that makes sense. So now we understand that about each other. I give him more heads up more time to get ready for an event change. And he has to just put up with the fact that I'll just keep charging and doing too much, Speaker 3: (26:38) But it's really amazing how, Speaker 1: (26:40) How much a dominant hormones, uh, fit our personalities and our neuro-transmitters affect our personalities and the which part of the brain we use. And all of this information comes out of the program, which is eye opening in the corporate setting, because you can, um, understand your colleagues better. You can understand how to motivate your, your people that you're working with, your team mates, your, your underlings, you can help them achieve better because you know how to motivate them, you know, what they need and what they don't need. Uh, and what time of the day they'll probably be at their best. And when they won't be, uh, all of these sort of little variants. And so we work in the corporate space and that's been really, really, uh, game changing for a lot of, you know, corporate teams being able to work together and understand each other better and have more empathy with one another. Um, and of course that all affects the bottom line at the end of the day. Speaker 2: (27:36) Yeah, it was so, so true. Fun, little, um, fun at work sizer. So listeners can, can do it homeless if we ask them just to hold up one of their hands and look at the difference between their second digit and their fourth digit. So looking at the difference between second and fourth digit or second and second finger ring finger. Now, if you look at those, if you look at the difference in size, um, and if the, the fourth digit or the ring finger is, is quite a bit longer or longer than the second digit, that'll indicate that you're exposed to more, um, the stress hormones or drilling testosterone when you, uh, you were grinding mom's tummy. So that will indicate more from a it's one of the measurements we use as part of the program, but that starts to indicate you're more like the top of person Lisa was describing herself as, so I'm more, would like challenge a lot. Variety would like change would like to jump over the fence first without worrying about what's on the other side and deal with it when she gets over there. Those generally with shorter, um, or fingers, similar length, one shorter, a generally want more organization, or want more structure will want more answers before they jump over the fence. And interestingly, as you look at leases, you'll have, Speaker 1: (28:50) Yeah. Longer than mine Speaker 2: (28:53) Then on the flip side, mine's similar size. Um, so again, you can start to see the connection between the science, the measurements, the, the, the, the balance, and then the things that are important to that person taking, taking challenge away from Lisa, taking variety away from her, taking, not letting her express herself. So it's real important from Lisa's perspective that she can express herself and let those emotions and feelings out for some of us as not so much of a, not so much of an issue, but there's, there's some people, and you may know them in your family and in your own social circles where you will think they, haven't got a huge amount of filter between brain amounts. Speaker 2: (29:35) You know what I'm saying? But he's saying what they think and being able to express themselves. And I think you do that exceptionally well. So, but you also know that if there's ever situations where you've been not allowed to do it, that affects you, you get frustrated and get a stress response, because you're not allowed to, you're not allowed to, um, to, to share that in the same way for me, if I'm asked to make a decision or go in and present something without having the information in lined up, that creates a stress response to me, whereas for you, it excites you more cause it's challenged. So that's what we want to point out to Pete. Everyone that's listening is that it's, it's stress is so individualized as well and how we have a stress response. Once you learn what triggers that in people you're then in a much better position to help control it. And especially in the current environment with this year, there's been so much uncertainty it's really been able to take control of the environment as it is, and then control your, how your body's performing or responding from a stress stress point of view. Speaker 1: (30:33) Yeah. We could almost see a, you know, working in the corporate situations that we have been, um, the people that are going to do well in the home environment, you know, working from home environment, uh, and the people who are gonna find that really difficult. And we can sort of see that before they tell us whether that is or not, because we know from their type their, their genetic type, uh, what's what what's going to be a problem for them or not be a problem for them, for me, for example, that that was fantastic. As long as I could get out and do my exercise when they took that away, going out there, it wasn't great, but being able to control my own environment, being able to do things on my time, doing it in my own environment, not having structure and things is actually for me, was fantastic for, for other people. They felt isolated, uh, cut off from the colleagues and, you know, all of that sort of, uh, stress. So that caused them more feelings of loneliness and stress and worry. Um, you know, it's just, everybody reacts differently. And when you understand that person's a driving force, if you like the driving hormones, the driving neurotransmitters, you know, you understand the chemistry that's going on in their body, but better than you can have more empathy with other people too, with your fellow human beings that they aren't all just like you. Speaker 2: (31:49) And then the connection between biology and performance and productivity is just, as you can start to connect the dots, because if you maximize your biology performance wise and productivity wise, you'll, you'll see a sustained improvement and, uh, increase increase as well. It's the people, um, then some other, some other good wins just to share with everyone as well. At least it's just, when you understand you're different, you're gonna have different areas. You should focus on the health and fitness industry. Traditionally tells us to focus on nutrition and exercise. And it's one of the, the craziest messages that generally the, the fitness industry has been built by crusaders activators and the, in the earlier days. And therefore it was the message always been around, eat little, um, eat little and often train at high intensity, or, you know, anaerobic threshold stuff, which works. We discussed the today. Speaker 2: (32:40) You can see why it worked for a percentage of the population, but there's a lot. It wouldn't, it wouldn't shouldn't work for us. So with that in mind, there's different priority areas that people should look at for some people focusing on their minds and allowing their mind to switch off each day, turning the volume down should, um, should be a priority. And that longterm will help them change shape, lose weight, more than exercise will. Okay. Exercise is still important, but it's my understanding that they've had those particular people, the, the exome Wars have had more development through their nervous system from an embryology point of view. So when they were growing in mum's tummy, um, the, the exome was had more energy put into it. So it was developed more extensively. So therefore they're going to have a high developed nervous system and their brains going to raise a whole lot faster. Speaker 2: (33:28) So the brain is racing faster, switching it off is there's going to be key others. If I had development in different areas where food, for example is like kindling to their sort of fire, they put food in their burn through equipment. So they're going to need more, more food more regularly, and they're gonna need more movement more regularly than other types. Um, and then they're going to need to, as they move in regularly, they can need to rest hard as well. So the recipe for each person is going to be different. Others are going to need to know that their family, their friends around them, uh, safe and well, because that will allow them to start getting the results they're going to need good social interaction to boost hormones like oxytocin. That's going to be key. So point is that the guidebook rule, the rule book, you're talking about creating your own guide book for your own body. It's going to be a different, a different book for each person. Speaker 1: (34:19) Yeah, it does really well. Uh, so give me an example of that. So my mum is what they call a guardian, one of the bio-type names, um, and for her, her top priority area is social. So I want to, as you, as a trainer, as your coach, as a rehabilitation person, after her aneurysm, I want to focus on food and exercise because that's what would suit me. Um, and where I think she can get, you know, Geneva, a lot of it, obviously, because she needs to rehabilitate her ability to move and so on. But at the top of her priority is social. So if she is not feeling connected and loved and supported, and that her family is that a got place, she's not going to be interested in exercising right. Or eating, right. She won't, she'll be eating the wrong food. She won't want to exercise. Speaker 1: (35:08) She won't be motivated and so on and so forth. So I have to make sure that she's mentally and socially meaning her family and her friends circle that she's getting good, happy, social interactions that she's happy where family's at. And if that's all good, she will do the work. So for some, for me, sometimes as a coach, that means letting her go off to the movies with their sister instead of taking her to the gym. And that's a big jump for me, because for me it's all about, but you should be moving 10 times a day, you know? Um, but understanding that when she does, and she has that time and that connection with her sister or a friend, that's going to enable her to actually come back and then exercise better and be more able, because she's not stressed out to focus on her food and their exercise. If that makes sense, Speaker 2: (36:00) That side, at least that's a gold gold example. So I think the biggest thing for the lessons to be hopefully taken away is that it's all right to be you, it's all right, to be different. You should be different. And if you've been struggling in any way to get any results in any aspect of your life from a, from a work and corporate point of view with yourself personally, or those that you're managing or driving, um, from your health and fitness perspective and sport and performance from a parenting or relationship side, then start to realize that you need a unique plan. You need a personalized plan, and you need to look at yourself as an individual and challenge those around you that are giving you advice, ask them what's, what's going to be best for me because there's so much science evidence and research out there. And we are all, all our experience with the people we've taken through the program. Once you personalize it, the results start to come a whole lot quicker. Speaker 1: (36:59) Absolutely. In all areas of life, as we said, not just your food and exercise cause that's, uh, you know, that's only a piece of the pie, um, in, in this program, as we said, um, if anyone wants to check it out, we do hold a webinar every couple of weeks, a public webinar that you can just register, um, and rotate you through the whole science side of it so that you can understand what is in behind it to, to, to a certain degree, at least in a, what we can do in an hour. Um, and to understand the implications of what we've been talking about today and how it can actually benefit you. Um, if you are interested in doing that, I'll put the link in the show notes, but it's just epigenetics.lisatamati.com to register for that webinar. And you can come and hang out with us and find out a little bit more. Speaker 1: (37:46) Um, and if you, if you want more information around this, otherwise, um, you don't want to wait for the webinar, just hop on over to my website at lisatamati.com And go to the, working with us tab and you'll find the epigenetics program near. And it all explained, um, this is, you know, this is apart from this program, the whole of medicine, the whole of the genetic testing, uh, the epigenetic programs like this, it's all going towards personalizing everything to your set of genes and your environment and optimizing that. And this goes right through from your, the medications that you're taking right through to the food that you're eating, you know, right across the board. So it's, uh, I'm really, really excited for the stuff that's coming down, the, the lines now from a point of view, because that's what Neil and I do is we just spend every waking moment that we're not actually coaching and working study and finding the latest stuff and always upgrading it. Speaker 1: (38:47) And I'm just absolutely ecstatic at the stuff that's coming down the pipelines now, and the information that we can get. And it's like, why didn't we get taught all this stuff, you know, and this is why I'm passionate about this podcast, getting these experts on and sharing their insights into the latest science, if you like sometimes before it's ever got to the medical schools or the textbooks or the, uh, you know, it's stuff that you need to know about now. And, um, this program is really, really exciting. So check that out at epigenetics.lisatamati.com Register for the webinar in a couple of weeks, uh, every two weeks we hold one. So you can find out more about it, um, new or anything else that you wanted to add on onto there. Just go and be, go be you to be you, if it feels right, if it doesn't question it, question it, I think if you don't, even if you don't do the program and you don't want to do this. Speaker 1: (39:43) And so on question with the CrossFit that you are doing, or the ultra marathon running you were doing, or the keto diet that you're doing, or the paleo diet, is it working for me? If not try something else, if you want to cut out the trial in the Euro though, come and check out what were you doing? But if it just because it's getting results for your friend down the road does not mean it will get results for you. And that's probably the biggest takeaway, understand unique, love it, loose. Love it. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thanks guys for listening today. If you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review. We hit the top 200 in the world now, and that health and fitness genres. So everybody who has given us a rating and review on iTunes or any of the other platforms, we really, really appreciate you. Speaker 1: (40:31) We love feedback on the show, uh, everything that we're doing, and if you do enjoy it, please share it with your friends and your context, because it's only through that, that we can keep this going. Um, it is a labor of love and, um, it takes up a heck of a lot of time and energy to produce these podcasts and get them out there. Uh, some really do appreciate your support in that area as well. And if you've got any questions for Neil arrive, um, come check us out at lisatamati.com, Where we're happy to help you. There is the contact details on there, and we'll hopefully see you again next week. Speaker 4: (41:06) That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and take over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

In this interview Lisa sits down with one of the most successful running coaches in America Jason Fitzgerald of Strength Running. Jason is a USATF certified coach and he and Lisa whose running training philosophies collide get deep into the weeds about what makes up a good running program, how to listen to your body, why mindset is so important and how strength and mobility work is an integral part of running success.   Jason has a wealth of knowledge and with a PB in the marathon of 2:39 he also walks the talk. www.strengthrunning.com and check out his blog on common mindset mistakes: https://strengthrunning.com/2020/06/mindset-traps-mental-self-sabotage/     About Jason: Jason Fitzgerald is the host  host of the Strength Running Podcast and the founder of Strength Running, an award-winning running blog with hundreds of thousands of monthly readers. A 2:39 marathoner and USATF-certified coach, he's coached thousands of endurance athletes to faster finishing times and fewer injuries with his results-oriented coaching philosophy. He's the winner of the 2011 Morraine Hills Half Marathon, 2012 Maryland Warrior Dash, and the 2013 Potomac River Run Marathon. During his collegiate career, he was a member of the 2002 National Championship-qualifying cross-country team and a top ten finisher in the steeplechase at the 2006 New England Championships. Jason is a member of the Greatist Expert Network, a speaker for industry conferences and major brands like Anheuser-Busch, and an instructor at adult fitness retreats and running camps. His work has been featured in the Washington Post, Runner's World, Health Magazine, Lifehacker, The Huffington Post, and other major media.  He lives in Denver, Colorado where you can find him trail running in the nearby Flatirons or at the playground with his wife and three children.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com. When everyone, Speaker 2: (00:12) Somebody here back at pushing the limits, and it's fantastic to have you with me again today, I have a very special guest all the way from Denver, Colorado, Jason Fitzgerald, who is a man I'll have followed for many years on social media, enter his website. He is a fellow running coach USA, certified track and field coach. And he's an incredible man with an incredible following, uh, a great authority around in the area of running. And he also has a very similar philosophy to our training system. Um, and you might say, well, you compete competitors, but it really doesn't matter because this guy is impact. And I really love what he does and what, uh, how it aligns really with what we do as well. So I do have you enjoy the session with Jason Fitzgerald. He's a really awesome guy. Um, he has a podcast called strengthrunning.com and his website is also strengthrunning.com. Speaker 2: (01:09) So make sure you check him out there. Now, before we go over to Jason, I just wanted to let you know, we are running every couple of weeks, our epigenetics webinars. Now this is a health program that we run that has all about your epigenetics, your DNA, and how it influences your life and your health and what you can do to optimize. This is like getting a user manual for your body. So if you want to join us on the next webinar that will be taking place, please go to epigenetics.com and you can register for the next webinar. We're holding these every two weeks at the moment. Um, and you can find out all about this program, what it does, how it can personalize everything to your health needs. It's not only covering in nutrition, which certainly does, uh, but also your fitness, but even things like your personality or mind how it works, what parts of your brain you use the most, it's a very robust system that will help you in every area of your life. Speaker 2: (02:13) Now we use this in the corporate seating for individual athletes and for the general public for their health. So it's a program that spans all of those areas and as a really, really exciting, uh, thing that we'll be doing now for a couple of years, it's just like to remind you too, that we, um, my book relentless, how a mother and daughter defied the odds is still available. Uh, it's in bookstores all throughout New Zealand. And I would love to, uh, for you to check that out and to read that, um, and if you have read it, uh, really appreciate our writing and review on that book. Of course you can email me with that. Uh, or you can do it on something where you're like good reads.com. It's a real passion project doing this book. It was a two year project, and I really wanted to share the journey back to health that my mother and I, we taught together getting her back from not much over a vegetative state with massive brain damage at the age of 74 and with a prognosis from the medical professionals saying that she would never, ever have any quality of life. Speaker 2: (03:15) Again, two, three years later being fully rehabilitated and now having a fully independent life, even as a driver's license in a full power of attorney back over her life. It's an incredible story. It's an empowering story. And I would love you to read it and to understand what goes into the mindset of winning in something like this and overcoming the odds, not to mention the fact that we all need to take control of our own health and take responsibility for our own health and not give up our, our control to any one person. And that's what this podcast is really all about. It's empowering you, it's giving you the latest information. It's all around health. It's all around fitness, it's around mindset. It's about the latest and breakthroughs in science and health science. And I love doing this. So if you do enjoy the podcast, I would also really, uh, appreciate you giving the show a rating and review on iTunes as especially important. Speaker 2: (04:18) Um, or if you're listening on one of the other platforms, please do it there. It really helps the show. This is a labor of love. So I really appreciate you all doing that right now, without further ado, over to Jason Fitzgerald in Denver, Colorado with everyone. And welcome back today. I have a very, very special guest Jason Fitzgerald, who is in Denver, Colorado. Uh, you've probably, if you're a runner, I heard this name. Um, Jason is one of the most successful online running coaches in the world and, and an incredible athlete himself. And Jason, I was on Jason show not long ago, which was a real privilege. Um, and he's agreed to be on my show. So welcome to the show, Jason, how you doing? Speaker 3: (05:03) I'm doing greatly. So thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and it's always good to connect with you. Speaker 2: (05:09) That's fantastic. You know, I I've admired your work for a long, long time. And, um, you know, we seem to have quite a few, some of the philosophies we've come from very different backgrounds, but I wanted to, you know, give the listeners a bit of a, um, a background into you in case they haven't heard of you before. Can you tell us a little about your incredible running career and now your incredible coaching career? Speaker 3: (05:34) Yeah, sure. So I got started running as a freshmen in high school, just trying out for the cross country team. I actually really hated running at the time and thought that I could high jump on the cross country team. And I didn't even know what cross country was like. My mom said, Oh, it's like track. I think you'll like it. So I showed up in big mess shorts, never actually gone on a run a day in my life beforehand. And then I realized that my God, okay, all we're doing is running every single day. No, I was the kid in middle school who was throwing the shot put as like 110 pound eighth grader. Cause I just wanted to avoid all of the running events during track and field week. So I kind of did an about face. I went from being a basketball player as a young kid. Speaker 3: (06:23) And then in high school, I started with cross country and indoor track then outdoor track. And I just got addicted to the sport of running very quickly, partly because I just had a great time with the guys on my team. And I really respected my coach, but also because just that feeling of being in control of your athletic destiny, it was such an objective sport to me, you know, who can run the fastest over a certain distance. It's so pure. And I really liked that. I loved seeing personal progress for myself in the sport where, you know, I could put in the work and then I would run a race and I would get faster. And that sense of accomplishment and achievement is what really hooked me on the sport of running. So yeah, I went from being a basketball player to being a three season endurance runner practically, overnight. Speaker 3: (07:16) And yeah, I ran all three seasons throughout high school. I ran cross country and two seasons of track every year for Connecticut college, which is a small liberal liberal arts school in new London, Connecticut. And, um, you know, once I graduated a lot of my teammates and, and really good running friends, you know, they stopped running, but I just couldn't, I, I wanted to race other distances. I got into some of the longer distances that 10 mile, half marathon, the marathon I ran an obstacle course race started getting into triathlons, you know, just for fun, just to experiment and experience these new events. And, um, yeah, you know, I, I just been in love with the sport for over 20 years and it's something that, you know, I'm going to be doing for a very long time. And I always knew that I wanted to be involved somewhere in the running community, whether that was a coach or some other element of, uh, the running world, you know, I wasn't good enough to be an elite runner. Speaker 3: (08:17) So I thought, you know, maybe I can be a coach somewhere, you know, uh, I think it was about, let's see, my God, 13 years ago, I bought the domain name, strength, running.com cause I thought it sounded cool. And a couple of years later I eventually did something with that and I started strengthrunning.com. And the reason for that was I really felt like I had something to share with the world because I had such an injury prone running career where, you know, everything from Achilles tendinopathy, plantar, fasciitis it band syndrome. I used to get my SSI joint all out of whack pretty consistently. And you know, I just missed all this time and you know, like any runner, you know, the worst experiences to get an injury and not be able to do the thing that you love so much, which is running. So, you know, after my first marathon, uh, I got this six month long, it band syndrome injury, uh, and I almost didn't start running again. Speaker 3: (09:17) I, it was a very kind of depressive period in my life where, you know, I was just sitting on the couch, eating Oreos and watching reruns of house because, uh, I just didn't know what to do with myself, but eventually I thought, you know, I can't just not run anymore. It's just such an integral part of my identity that, you know, I just went all in on recovery. I started seeing way more physical therapists. I started doing a lot of independent research on my own and, you know, I finally got healthy, finally was able to run without any pain. And I did make certain adjustments and changes to my training so that I wouldn't get hurt so often. And you know, it's been great in the last nine years. I've really only had one major injury compared with the previous nine years where I had, you know, six, seven or eight. Speaker 3: (10:06) So it's been a big turnaround over the last, um, you know, nine years or so since that first marathon that I ran and that really was the impetus for me, starting strength running was, you know, let's make sure that runners are training appropriately. Let's avoid all the common mistakes that I made in my training. And I knew that for me, you know, for someone who's had more than 10 coaches themselves, for me to be making these big mistakes, I can't imagine that an adult runner who starts running when they're, you know, 30 or 40 or 50, they're probably going to be making even more mistakes. So the thought about the broader running community, and I thought to myself, I don't, I don't want people making these big mistakes because, you know, it leads to injury. It leads to the inability to accomplish your goals. And you're just not really having as much fun as you could with the sport of running. So that was why I started strength running. And that was back in 2010. And here we are a decade later, still going strong. Speaker 2: (11:05) That's an incredible, nice little summary. And you know, when you say you went to an elite runner, I mean your, your top marathon time is two 39 people. So, you know, just is right up there. It was a very, very good, very, very good runner. Um, and it's funny, isn't it like people when they think then they don't run and they, first time they come to running and or they do it at school. And I have to admit, you know, I did cross country at school and I hated it, you know, and it's quite funny that you grow up to be a runner, so to speak. And, you know, I think it's really important to see this journey that you've been on, where you head injuries, you had some issues and now you've managed to do a deep dive, really, you know, cause I love your material that you bring out on this. I think, you know, our philosophy is really collide and the whole strength running, um, thing is, is just so important. Can you, can you delve into why, why is it that runners Tinto when they don't have a coach, especially just want to run and why is that they just want to click miles or kilometers and they don't necessarily want to do all the other pieces of the puzzle. What are the other pieces of the puzzle in your opinion? Uh, people probably know what minor and why is it important that you don't just collect miles? Speaker 3: (12:28) That's a really important question. And it's one of the big things that I had to address in my own training. And I think when you have a coach who has experience and perspective, not just a basic understanding of running fundamentals, but really has perspective on, you know, what drives performance and what drives you to not achieve a good high level of performance. Then the coach has a much better ability to view a runner, not really as a runner, but as an athlete that specializes in running rather than a runner. And you know, some people might say, Oh, this is just semantic. And I really don't think so. I think it shifts our perspective. And I've been talking more about this over the last maybe year or so, because I think it's so fundamental and important runners are not just runners. We are athletes. That means our training. Speaker 3: (13:22) Can't just be running, you know, and we can look at any other sport and see this at play. And so we shouldn't think that we're special. We are not snowflakes. We should, we should abide by the same rules as other athletes. If you look at a football player, let's use you as American football. They don't play football every day as their only form of exercise, they are doing drills. They are in the weight room lifting weights and they are doing so many other things with their bodies to make them physically capable for the sport. You can see that in soccer, you can see that in a rugby, you can see it in almost any other sport. They don't just play the sport, they do other things. And so it's that frame that I think is super helpful for runners to really embed and engrain in their mentality. So, you know, when they're looking at our training, Speaker 2: (14:14) That's a really good way of looking at it. So I never sort of thought of it like that. I mean, you know, I would always explain what the aspects of a training plan are for me that work, but to actually put it in the perspective of what other sports do, that's brilliant. I really like that. Speaker 3: (14:29) I just think it's a helpful way of, of having a good perspective on things and, and thinking about it a little bit differently because you know, like I said, you know, basketball players, aren't just playing basketball. It would be crazy for runners just to be running all the time. And so, you know, the next question is, well, what's all the others stuff that the athlete that specializes in should be doing. Of course, we're gonna focus on mileage and hard workouts. You know, that's our sports specific activity that is, what's going to make you into a better runner, no doubt hands down. But with that said, there's other things in our training that are equally important. Everything from form drills that you can do before workouts, uh, that help not only help you warm up, but help reinforce good mechanics, those good movement patterns, uh, and that reinforce proper running form there's strength training. Speaker 3: (15:23) You know, I don't even like to consider strength. Training, cross training is just part of the training that runners have to do to achieve their potential. So, you know, there's the, you know, there's the, uh, the strength training you do in a gym, which I think is very valuable though, the lifting heavy weights, some of the explosive movements that's certainly has a place in runners training, but then there's also the body weight, strength exercises, the pushups, the planks, the bridges. So many others that I think are really important, primarily more for injury prevention. Um, and then there's also the way in which we run, you know, everything from, are you only running on the sidewalk or are you getting in some trails to get on a more uneven surface to work on, you know, your body's ability to handle a variable terrain? I think that's really important. Speaker 3: (16:14) Uh, and then of course there's there's Hill training and all the other different ways that you can develop strength and balance and proprioception and coordination. Um, you know, uh, sprinting is another great example. You know, even if you're training for an ultra marathon, should you run really, really fast every once in a while? I think so. I think again, something helps to develop, yes, it helps develop good form. Uh, it reinforces good mechanics, uh, and it does help you get into better shape, although it's not very specific to the ultra marathon distance being in better shape, being a better athlete is always going to put you in a better position to succeed. Speaker 2: (16:51) You touched a point there. Can I just interrupt you there for a sec, Jess, um, doing sprinting and doing these high intensity type of workouts is going to get you in better shape in long distance running. Would you agree with that statement? Speaker 3: (17:04) I think if it's used in conjunction with the distance work in an intelligent way, then yes, absolutely. There's gotta be that balance. Speaker 2: (17:12) Yeah. And I think this is a really, um, just an important point to, I think this is especially for a woman in my, in my experience, um, they're doing the super long distance type of running can actually make you put on weight or not do with me. Um, and, and that's quite a mental shift as a what, why would you know that your body becomes more efficient? Your metabolism comes super efficient and goes, okay, I'm going to keep everything. And especially if you're an overtraining all the time, which in my, uh, certainly the first half of my career, I was constantly and over-training, um, then you can actually end up being a PB, a puffier, holding water, normally these sorts of things. I just sort of drop that in there as a bit of a, um, you know, it's, it's, it's counterintuitive for when you do the high intensity type of workouts. Even if you are an ultra marathon runner, it's going to change your shape and it's going to change the way you run. And it's going to change a whole lot of things that are going to be beneficial for your long distance running and also your health course. Speaker 3: (18:17) Absolutely. And, and a big part of that is hormonal. You know, the things that happen in your body when you go run at an easy effort for two hours is very different than the things that happen in your body when you are doing, you know, maybe six or eight times, 200 meters really fast, you know, that is a whole different animal. And it's going to elicit lots of different changes in your body compared with that really long workout. And, you know, we're mentioning strength training earlier. That's another great example of, you know, you get in the weight room and you're doing heavy squats or dead lifts. That is also a very strong hormonal stress that is going to increase testosterone and growth hormone, which is really great for weight loss. And even if you are a woman, you know, there is still a testosterone and growth hormone stimulus from strength training that I think is really important. Speaker 3: (19:07) Um, the other thing I wanted to clarify too, is that, you know, just because we're talking about running fast and how valuable that is, that doesn't necessarily mean, we mean hard workouts, you know, running fast and something being hard can, can, can be two very different things. You know, there's definitely a lot of overlap, almost like a Venn diagram, but you could look at, you know, a series of strides, a hundred meter accelerations, where you get up to about maybe mile race pace, but then you're only holding that for about two seconds. You coast to a stop. A stride is very fast, but is it hard? I would argue, no, you get full recovery. The whole thing is only about a hundred meters. And you know, only a sliver of that full stride is at that fast effort. So you can practice running fast to get some of the benefits of speed work without it necessarily being a super intense work. Speaker 2: (20:01) Wow. That's a really good at perspective, cause yeah, it doesn't have to be both sort of walls. So to speak every time either when you're doing high intensity training and this is another mistake I did make, we know started doing more of the high intensity workouts, um, uh, speed workouts. It would be absolute to the wall every time thinking that that's what was required for the change and absolutely hating it. And I think it's really important to point out too, that you, um, you need to be able to read your body on the day, like following a plan. And this is what we try and get out athletes to do is yes, you have a plan. You have a coach this through this, this and this and this, but if you are not up to it today, because I don't know the kids for sickle nights, uh, you've a bit of a cold coming. Speaker 2: (20:48) You've got a really stressful day behind you. You know, all of these things are going to perfect your performance. If we learn to be intuitive and listen to our body, sometimes would you agree that that sometimes brings more benefit because sometimes what is high performance athletes or it just everyday warriors, we tend to just go hard or go home. And that is the mentality of is not hurting. Uh, if it's not difficult, you know, isn't a workout. Do you think that there, there's starting to listen to your body as well as following it completely Richmond, Richmond, a program. Speaker 3: (21:25) Yeah. I'm in complete agreement with you. I like to look at training plans as a roadmap to your final destination. Can you take a wrong turn and still get to your final destination? Absolutely. So the training plan is really an ideal set of directions. You can go off course, you can make modifications. And that doesn't mean you're not going to get to where you want to go. So it's very important to look at a training plan that way and to make changes. If you think that your body is not up to the task, you know, I like to say that, you know, the best workout for you today is what your body is ready for. And sometimes you might have a hard workout planned, but your body simply isn't ready for that. And so if you were to push through and try to complete that workout, you are potentially risking an injury, but you're also just not going to feel good. Speaker 3: (22:16) It's going to SAP your motivation, your drive to train. And you're not going to get as much out of the workout because you're not going to be able to perform as well as you were really hoping to. So I think you have to be flexible with training plans. Um, you know, of course this doesn't mean that at every hint of fatigue or soreness, you abandon a workout, but you know, if there is something substantial going on, then it does work in your best interests to maybe shorten the workout. Maybe you're on the workout a little bit slower. Maybe you even delay the workout a day. If you need an extra, you know, few kilometers of easy running just to shake your body out before the harder effort, the following day. And, you know, most runners are so type a that we just want to be crushing our training plan. And, you know, you know, like my athletes, they want to email me and say, coach, I did everything exactly the way that you lined it out in the schedule. And sometimes I'm like, you've been doing that for like a couple months now. And I'm honestly getting a little worried. You're going to have to change the schedule up. Sometimes I don't think I've ever written a training plan for myself that I haven't had to change within two weeks. So, you know, there's always changes that you can make to a training plan and that's just fine. Speaker 2: (23:29) Perfect. And, and just, yeah, it gives people permission to just stop to listen to their bodies and not always go hard out. Um, so that brings me to another point that I wanted to discuss with you. Is there a difference when you like you, that you find between training men and women, um, and the different age groups as well? So, um, if you're, if you're training say a 45 year old woman, who's got three children hasn't run before, um, versus, you know, a 20 year old male athlete, who's done track at school. Um, how do you see some major differences in the, in between men and woman, um, firstly, and the way that they get performance? Or is it like, what, what am I trying to say? I'm what I see is a very big component from the hormonal side, from the genetic side, uh, and then your age. So you've got to bring all of these aspects to beer when you are creating a training regimen for somebody. Um, do you see, uh, this one size fits all? Cause a lot of people will say, and I know you probably come across this problem. Oh, I just downloaded a marathon training plan off the internet. I don't need a coach, you know? Speaker 3: (24:52) Yeah. That always happens. Yeah. I mean, there, there are certainly some differences on, you know, everything from the physiological. Uh, but what I have discovered through my coaching and I typically work with the, these, these slightly advanced to beginner runner, you know, if you're running marathons and you're a male, I'm probably working with like the two 45 and slower group, you know, I'm not really working with the super elite athletes. Um, so, so knowing that what I've found to be the biggest difference between men and women is simply, uh, not necessarily their biology or their physiology, how they respond to training. Uh, but it's more like, you know, what's going on outside of your running that is then affecting your training. So, um, you know, and this is going to be stereotypical, but I mean, a lot of it is, is because it's true, more women that I work with are either staying at home or working part time or caring for children compared with more men who are working, you know, a normal kind of a schedule. Speaker 3: (25:57) And so the way that we have to work around their schedules is a lot different. So I have discovered that. I mean, that's, that's just kind of what you do with a coach. You work around your schedule and your time availability and things like that, so that you can really hit the priority workouts and things like that. Um, I think a big part of it too, is simply like you were saying, you know, be kind to yourself. If you have to give yourself permission to delay a workout or run a workout a little bit slower or shorter than that is totally fine. And that's sometimes has to happen if you've been up with your kids. You know, if, if you're a mom, you have a bunch of kids, you're home with them, you know, something has to give and not everyone's number one priority is their running. Speaker 3: (26:40) Um, another big issue with age is just the, the ability to recover and how much intensity isn't appropriate to be scheduled into a training plan. Um, so any training plan that I write, whether it's for one of my one on one coaching athletes that I'm working with very, uh, uh, you know, closely with, or if it's someone who just wants me to write them a custom training plan for some goal that they have, you know, I always ask how old they are, because if they're 25, I might be much more aggressive with the progression of mileage, the progression of workouts and things like that in intensity, rather than the person who's 60, uh, and, and simply doesn't have the ability to recover. So a lot of that is simply your background, you know, if you're 60 years old, but you're used to running 50 miles a week, then you're probably in a better position than someone who's 25, but has only been running 15 miles a week, apologies for using the Imperial system podcast. Lisa, my American side is coming through. Speaker 2: (27:43) We sort of thought I'd say that. So yeah, those are the Speaker 3: (27:46) Big differences that I see. Uh, but yeah, I mean, I'm not in the lab taking like blood tests and calibrating workouts to that level of detail. No, Speaker 2: (27:56) No, we aren't really there. And, and to be honest, you know, I don't think that's, um, I mean there are the specialist ones, you know, for, if you're going to go to the Olympics, you're going to need all that stuff. But, uh, for, for most of us, for, for, for weekend warriors, with people who want to actually achieve something fantastic distance wise, or for them a personal base, then that level is usually not required so much. You know, it's more about, uh, understanding how not to injure yourself, how to get the best out of yourself and how to have, uh, uh, get your mind in the game as well. So let's, let's do the next thing that I want to talk about is how big is mindset for you as a coach and as an, as an athlete and stuff. Speaker 3: (28:36) I mean, I think mindset is, is almost just as important as the physical training itself, because how you think about the sport, how you, uh, uh, you know, grapple with some of the training decisions that you have to make makes all the difference. You know, if you don't have the motivation to train the drive to get up early in the morning, to get your workouts in, uh, if you don't know how to set your goals appropriately, if you get distracted by every little new training fad, kind of ignore the fundamentals, you know, those aren't problems with your, your talent or your ability to train it's really problems, you know, between the ears up here. And those things can really be changed and upgraded and really improved for the better, through working on your mindset. And so, yeah, it's huge, you know, and I think one of the most important things when it comes to, uh, building that mindset is to look at it as a skill. Speaker 3: (29:33) You know, this is not something that people are born with. This is something that people work on regularly, and it's the only way that you're going to improve from, you know, how confident you are. Well, what is confidence? Confidence is an inner belief that you can do something. And the only way that you build that is by going out and doing things. And so you have to actually have some success to start developing confidence and you have to be okay with failure. And so it's just this constant process of exposing yourself to stress being okay with failure and gradually building up all of the mental skills that are important for runners, you know, everything from, you know, confidence to, uh, having the right intensity level, you know, like you're, you're probably gonna be very different on the starting line of a 1500 meter race than you are at a hundred mile ultra marathon. The level of intensity that you need is so dramatically different. And so that is a big part of being successful runner is being able to modulate that intensity to go up, to go down and, you know, to not attack your recovery run with the same vigor that you attack a series of intervals on the track. So, yeah, I'm sure we could talk about mental toughness and focus, uh, and some of the other aspects of mental fitness, which is the kind of term I use to describe all these skills that are so beneficial for runners. Speaker 2: (30:55) And, and I think it's, I think it's the biggest part of the puzzle. You know, like we can, we can follow the regimens and we can follow all the planes, but if we haven't gotten our mind in the right place and learning, and this is an ongoing forever growth area for all of us, but it fixed. What I find also is that the mental side of being an athlete general really benefits everything else that you do in your life. And therefore it has a benefit, not just in the, in the running scenes, but also for, for every, every problem that you've tackled with it, you're about to take off. Um, it's why I think, you know, athletes do really well in the corporate setting or in the education setting or when you careers or whatever, they decided to have a go at because they do have a framework of being able to push through and be disciplined resilience. We've all failed, you know, dozens of times, because if you're not failing and you probably haven't been pushing yourself really to the, to the Instagram. And I think that the, the mental side of the game for me is probably, yeah, it's right up there. I mean, you can't do that. You can't do the running without the, um, the mileage, but by the same token, you're not going to get very far if you haven't worked on your mental game. And there's lots of this speaks to that whole, Speaker 3: (32:16) For sure. One of my favorites is talking about mental toughness, because I think this is the sexiest skill that runners, they want to have it. They think it's this great panacea that will solve all of their problems. And, you know, we've been talking about these, uh, mental skills as skills, right? And I think that's a really important frame to use because like any skill, it will atrophy over time. If you don't practice it, if you don't use it, if you don't further hone that skill. And so when we're talking about mental toughness, you know, that really comes from your ability to stay calm and be proactive whenever you face adversity, you know, what is the path forward rather than on, you know, getting, getting anxious or not knowing how to make a decision and letting any kind of anxiety or fear make you succumb to those feelings. Speaker 3: (33:09) And so, you know, if you can proactively look around when you're in a race situation and something happens, your shoe falls off your first, uh, you know, two K is way too slow or even way too fast. Um, or, you know, you show up to the start of the race and it's pouring rain and they're like, we're going to run the race anyway. You know, how do you proactively respond to those situations? And the more that you can flex that muscle and develop that skill, the more that you'll be able to encounter nearly any situation and just have that framework, like you mentioned of responding to it constructively rather than on woe is me. I'm going to complain about everything and all that. And I completely agree with you, Lisa. I do think that athletes go on to be more successful than non-athletes because of the skills that they've learned in sport. Speaker 3: (34:04) And we're not talking about how fast your mile time is or whether or not you've run a hundred miles in one go, we're talking about the mental aspects of sport, you know, and this really transcends running and I think is very much applicable to almost any sport, but, but running is fairly unique. Isn't it? It's, it's one of the few sports where you have to actively want to experience more and more discomfort, because the more discomfort that you experienced, the more successful you're going to be when you're crossing the finish line faster, you're going to be, so this is very odd, kind of a dynamic, but I think that does just make runners incredibly, mentally tough. And they do bring that toughness into many other aspects of their life. Speaker 2: (34:48) Yeah. Do you think we miss a [inaudible] cause a lot of people come to me and go, what you do is absolutely mad. And why would you put yourself through that? And it's the same, you know, like if you're doing shorter distances, this is another misconception. Um, you know, people come and say, Oh, I want to run my first 5k. Ah, but I'm not a real runner like you because you did the less long distance and I'm going to hang on, hang on here in the distance is different. So every distance that you want to attend as a complete different beast, if I'm doing a hundred meters, it's a hundred meters off for intensity and I need to train for years and hone that particular skill. If I'm doing a five kilometer, same deal. If I'm doing a team they're all different Sonos. So no comparison between apples and oranges status Speaker 3: (35:38) And then, um, you know, understanding that, you know, you're just, I think, do you agree with it, like it's a, the apples and oranges comparison as, as, as a silly one for a status? Yeah, I think so. I think the idea that real runners just run a lot. Well, non real runners just focus on the shorter distances is just insane because those shorter events are arguably more difficult than some of the longer events. They are more technical. They require much more refined sense of pacing and strategy. Um, you know, any look, watch almost any final of the 1500 in the Olympics and you'll see that it is an extremely tactical race. And so those elements of those races make them very difficult. It's almost like the difference between, you know, whether or not you want to put your hand in a fire, like if you were racing 1500 meters, or if you just want to go out on the beach one day when it's really, really incredibly hot without any sunscreen for 10 hours, you know, very different both in both situations, but it's just a different experience. It just kind of depends on whether you want to condense the pain into a very short period of time or you want to stretch it out a little bit longer. Speaker 2: (36:57) So that goes back to the masochistic side of it all. Why is it, why is it important? Yeah. Speaker 3: (37:03) As human beings to actually want to push through pain barriers, to want to struggle, to encounter more and more resistance, you know, what is the benefit of doing something like that when it's compared to sitting on the couch and eating Oreos? Yeah. Well, both can be fun, but yeah, I mean, I think it is part of the human condition that we want to explore. We want to cross that final frontier and see what lies beyond, you know, everything from, uh, you know, the, the Spanish sending Columbus over to the new world to Lewis and Clark moving across the United States to going to the moon, to seeing what you can accomplish in a marathon. You know, they're all kind of the same human drive to explore the frontiers. And I just think it's very exciting, but you're absolutely right. We are slightly masochistic. And, uh, you know, sometimes I joke around with my wife and I say, I'm going to go to the track and do this workout. And she's like, Oh, why are you doing that workout? That sounds terrible. I just, I just want to feel alive Speaker 2: (38:09) Afterwards. I'll feel very pleased with myself. I'll have that nice BDNF brain derived neurotrophic factor. They run as high and I will feel like Speaker 3: (38:20) Exactly, exactly. And you know, there's a, there's a saying that I loved that was on the boxing for a while. There was a sign on the wall. Strength comes from struggle, everything that we do in life. If you think about the more resistance Speaker 2: (38:36) We encounter and have to, uh, do something to overcome that the stronger we come out at the other end of it. So whether that's weightlifting, which is the obvious analogy, the heavier weights that I progressively in progressive the important word there, aggressively lift the stronger I will be. The more I train the better I'll be. The more I box, the better I'll be at there or whatever the resistance is that I'm having to overcome. It will make me as a human being stronger in some, some way shape or form. It seems to be, uh, you know, one of the rules of physics, you know, we cannot be strong without a weight on us without a stress on our bodies. You know, that whole hermetic stress causing an adaptation and making us stronger is valid in the sporting realm, but also in, in the realm, just everything in life. I think that's why we do this. Speaker 3: (39:37) I think that's, that's completely true. And it's just, um, you know, it's, it's almost part of the reason why we are who we are. Uh, we are human beings and we only adapt when there is a stimuli to prompt that app adaptation. So it's, it's definitely true. And it's, it's not just in the physical too, you know, I can look back on, you know, my own personal running career and see all the times when I was told I couldn't do something and that made me want to do it even more. And I went on to achieve it. You know, I remember when I first started, uh, someone in my family telling me, Oh, you'll never run a sub five minute mile and you better watch out. Now, now they're run that sub five. And I did. And I did, I remember someone in college telling me the steeple chase, which is a crazy event with barriers and a water pit. And they said, this race is extremely challenging. It has chewed up and spit out much better runners than you. And, uh, I ran the race anyway. I want it qualified for the regional. Speaker 2: (40:37) And you know, it's just one of those things where Speaker 3: (40:39) You better not tell a type a runner that he can't do something because that is going to light a fire under him. And that's a form of struggle. I think the struggle of other people telling you things that you can't do or getting injured and being on the couch, watching episodes of house for six months, not being able to Speaker 2: (41:00) Yeah. And having to overcome those lows. I mean, that's definitely my career too. I've been told so many times in my life, you can't do something. And that just really gets me going. And one of the interesting things, he say type a personality. And I, um, uh, I, I studied, uh, functional genomics in genetics and, um, I, there's a, there's a gene, there's a, there's a gene called the [inaudible] without getting too technical. But this is the one that looks at how much dopamine your body, how many, how much receptors you have on your sales foot to take out dopamine and dopamine is our reward, uh, neurotransmitter fuel. Um, and why this is interesting is that I just got my gene test back. And my DIA D two gene, I have the lowest level of receptors for document. Now what that makes me and the, the scientists who was explaining this to me, you said, well, no one that you've done what you've done, because you're never going to get the reward that normal people would get. Speaker 2: (42:02) If they had a, if they had doubted gene variants where they actually getting more diaper means. So they get that satisfaction and that fulfillment much quicker. Um, with my combination there, I don't get that reward very much. So it's very small and very short. Um, so I'm constantly chasing the next mission or the next thing that is going to give me a reward. So this is a very addictive, uh, it can work itself out as being, if you go into the negative, you can become, you know, have addictive problems with drugs, alcohol, whatever, um, addictions you can go into, or it can be that you become a workaholic or, or run a holic or, and I was just like, Oh, wow. So this is an actual physical reason or a genetic reason why I am always on a mission and why I am the type a personality. And, and, and I, I just wonder if a lot of us have fat, low dopamine receptors who are really very driven and determined to, to achieve all these goals. Whereas another person who has a lot of dopamine might go, Oh, I ran a mile today. Great. I can go and settle the couch down, happy. I'm happy with myself. Whereas for me, it's like, well, I did this, this, and this and this, and it's not enough. I'm going to go out and do that as well. You know? Speaker 3: (43:32) Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of the same way. And I, and I feel like it's, while I haven't had a gene test to prove that, you know, I definitely kind of look back on my life and I see, wow, I have really gotten quote unquote addicted, certain things in my life. And, you know, I'm, I go all in, whether that is running, whether that is my business strength running, uh, whether that was, you know, my, my wife and, you know, I met her in college and I never let her out of my sight since now we're married with three kids and yeah, I mean, it's certainly a double edged sword and you need to make sure you wield that personality trait of yours appropriately. So you don't go down a dark path. Speaker 2: (44:11) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I think, yeah, a lot of us would have it. If we, if we look at various, uh, you know, high performance athletes or people who start a lot of businesses or do anything, we've probably all got problem and it is a double edged sword. So we need to be a little bit careful. And I think for me, what has been tough is an athlete too, in coming from a background where toughness was expected, uh, from a, you know, a family that was mentally and physically into toughness, um, is actually been kind to yourself sometime and realizing that less is sometimes more. And that sometimes maybe doing a yoga session is more important than the interval session. Um, and learning to just read your body and be a little bit more intuitive because sometimes if you have that type a personality, you do tend to override everything and that can be unhealthy physically and unhealthy mentally as well. Speaker 3: (45:07) For sure. In the way I think about that type a drive and the toughness just to persevere is that, you know, if you want to be the toughest person on the starting line or even better the toughest person at the finish line, then I think, you know, how do you do that? Well, you could be one of the fastest people across the finish line. And so in my mind, I was always thinking, okay, if I want to be the best then, and I never really became the best in almost any endeavor that I've ever done, but it's always the process of trying to do it. I've always found that, you know, you have to kind of be kind to yourself in order to, Speaker 2: (45:44) Yeah, if you want to Speaker 3: (45:46) Be the fastest person across the finish line, that means you need to have the best training or more, probably more accurately the best training for you. And sometimes that means not running that workout. Sometimes that means sleeping in and getting an extra hour of sleep because your body needs the recovery. If it's in service of the ultimate goal, which is, you know, maybe running a PR qualifying for a certain race, reaching a new distance that you've never run before. You know, that is the tough thing that you are trying to do the personal best, you know, the qualification and you have to be kind to then get the tough results. That's the way I look at it. Speaker 2: (46:28) Yeah. That's a really super analogy. Sometimes looking at the bigger goal rather than the immediate, this is the next step they'll meet to take, but not feeling it. And looking at the bigger picture and saying, is that actually going to get me there in the long run? That's stress, Speaker 3: (46:44) A lot of runners. They, they look at all the little steps that they have to take to accomplish the big goal. And they think that every single little step is absolutely 100% critical, and it's not actually that necessary. You know, we're talking about training plans and how it's like a roadmap. You can take a different set of directions. You'll still get there. And it's almost a similar analogy here. You can skip some of those steps. You can do some of those steps twice, maybe, and we get so obsessed with those little steps that we lose sight of the bigger picture, you know, the goal isn't to run your 15 kilometer run today. The goal is to qualify for that race or run that certain time. And maybe you shouldn't run that 15 kilometers today. So I'm always thinking about what I want to accomplish rather than on, you know, the, the training that helps me get there because sometimes that training has to be changed, has to be totally scrapped or just slightly modified. Speaker 2: (47:41) It is absolutely brilliant. Love it. Um, so, uh, I wanted to touch briefly on mobility work. Um, cause this is something that I think is also something sorely neglected by many runners. Um, why is it important to keep your body, uh, not just run fit, but, and not just strength training, which is a hugely important thing we both agree there. Um, is my ability part of your, your regime that you use in your coaching, Speaker 3: (48:09) For sure. I think mobility is really important. Um, and, and I think mobility is one of those things that, that is somewhat confusing. I think to a lot of folks, there's a lot of misconceptions about it. You know, you start talking about mobility and everyone's like stretching, you know, static stretching and all that. And you know, the way I look at it is that mobility is really the ability to move well when you're doing a wide variety of movements, whether that is running up a Hill, whether that's sprinting down a Hill or, uh, you know, trying to hurdle a barrier and the steeplechase, uh, running a trail race, which has different demands, uh, or even in the weight room, doing squats and deadlifts and presses and other, you know, major lifts like that. And you don't get the mobility necessary to thrive in those circumstances by sitting around and doing a bunch of static stretching. Speaker 3: (48:59) We really have to, uh, I think thinking about mobility as two separate things is really important the first, and I think easiest for runners to understand is the dynamic flexibility drills that you might do, uh, before you go running. You know, I have a lot of routines on strength running, uh, standard warmup, the Matic warmup. Um, these are, you know, dynamic warmup routines that do everything a good warmup should do. You know, they're going to elevate your heart rate your respiration, um, open up capillary beds in your extremities, lubricate joints, really metabolically prime, your body to go running. And you do that through a lot of exaggerated dynamic movements that have the side benefit of really making you a more coordinated athlete. So if you can do a bunch of great dynamic movements, you know, you're building coordination, you're building balance, you're building that athleticism. Speaker 3: (49:56) Uh, and then there's drills. I think form drills are really important, uh, once or twice a week for most runners. This is really great to do that. And, you know, I never forget when I was in college, I went to this professional indoor track meet and I got to see Alan Webb who an American miler. He has the, uh, us mile record. I think he ran three 47 in the mile, just incredibly fast, powerful man. And before he was running the three K, he was on the infield doing a series of drills as part of his warmup. And I'm sitting there with my friends from college, we're all distance runners. We can do drills. You know, we kind of think of ourselves as you know, these good athletes and Alan Webb was doing drills that I've never seen before that were so credibly complex. And he looked lucid and smooth and graceful. Speaker 3: (50:47) And when you're able to move like that, you have much more control over your body. You're not going to get hurt as frequently, and you're going to have more control to run faster, you know, all of the small, subtle movements that allow you to accelerate to move around a competitor. You know, these were all really important. Um, and I know I'm going a little off track here, but I love, uh, the, uh, the other side of mobility training is the type of running that you're doing. You know, yes, we can work on mobility outside of running with drills, with dynamic flexibility movements and even things like foam rolling. But then when it comes to our training, I think including things that enhance mobility is just as important. So everything from, you know, let's make sure we're running hilly terrain, just because that is a whole different movement than running on flat ground. Speaker 3: (51:39) Um, let's make sure that we are running fast regularly, because that is a very, uh, a much bigger range of motion than just plotting along at a very easy effort. Um, and then there's, you know, everything from, uh, strength training, you know, are we getting in the gym to do some of those compound multi-joint movements that are so critical for, um, you know, strength and flexibility and coordination? You know, so there's a lot of different ways that we can work on mobility. Um, but I think it's, it's certainly not static stretching and it really encapsulates the dynamic flexibility movements, but then also what you're doing in your training to make sure that you can move well. Yep. Speaker 2: (52:20) Perfect. And, and that coordination and proprioception side of it is just absolutely essential to after, um, having, you know, you know, the story with my mum, um, and working with someone with a massive brain injury, we, you realize they have no that you're starting from scratch when it comes to proprioception balance coordination. So all of the little weak things that we just take for granted, as, you know, semi-healthy human beings is completely broken. And then you realize how important it is to do all these, um, you know, I love doing sort of primal type movements where you're, you're just doing practical everyday types of things that our ancestors would have done on a daily basis. And because we, you know, sit down and cheers for a lot part of the day or in cars or wherever we not getting all those little, uh, unusual, um, pulling and shifting and stretching and just those, all those little proprioception things and coordination things that we did when we were kids, even, you know, like we running around in the playground on the jungle germs, we were doing handstands, we were doing, you know, all sorts of movements, jumping over fences, balancing on things. Speaker 2: (53:32) If you think of all the stuff that you did as a kid, if he can start to involve some of those activities and do training plan and improve your whole, um, but all that sort of primal movement, uh, you know, coordination, things that can really help with your running as well. It can really help with your fitness and total, uh, not to mention yet your health overall. Um, I think that's a really important point. And having worked with some, with brain injury, realizing like just didn't have any of that balance sort of stuff, you, how, how much we lose over time as well. Um, as we get older, we seem to lose a heck of a lot of that stuff along the way. And we don't really realize that that Cartwheel, that I used to do that handstand, that I used to do that, uh, hanging all the jungle gyms that I used to do as a kid, I can no longer do it. Speaker 2: (54:22) And then all of a sudden you're at 40 or old, you try and do something and you're like, Oh, I can't do it anymore. Um, so it's trying to avoid that deterioration over time too. And that keeps you really well coordinated athletic person, not just a running person, cause sometimes you do see like, uh, older runners, um, as well, very foot cardiovascular wise, um, but very stiff and very, um, uh, not strong, a lot of sarcopenia losing muscle mass, uh, and not got godly coordination. So you gotta have all the pieces of the puzzle, I think is what we're saying here, right? Speaker 3: (55:04) Yeah, for sure. And you know, I have three little kids and one of my favorite ways to work in my mobility is to go to the playground with them and not sit on the bench and watch them play, but actually get in there and play tag run up and down. All the big structures do climbing on the monkey bars and playgrounds are a great place to identify and isolate your weaknesses. Because if you can, if you can't go up the big steps and you can't hang on something or, you know, fit your body through a small space, then you know, that's a mobility problem. And, you know, for anyone who thinks, you know, this level of coordination is not important for your running, then, you know, you can come watch my two and a half year old run down the sidewalk. He's not very coordinated and you can tell his form is his way off. And it's just a good illustration of the fact that as he gets older and as all of us build coordination, our stride becomes a lot smoother and fluid and graceful. And that really helps us not only conserve energy while we're out there running, but for then injuries because we don't have all these wasted movement patterns that are predisposing us to getting hurt. Speaker 2: (56:17) Absolutely. Jason, I want to be mindful of your time. You've been super generous today. It's been really exciting Speaker 3: (56:24) To be able to just chew the fat over, running in all the good aspects of run training program. Um, Jason, you, you have a massive website. Most people would have probably seen some of your work strengths running.com. Um, how else can people reach out to you? Um, and is there anything that you'd want to let know people people know about what you do? Oh, thanks Lisa. Yeah. I mean, strengthrunning.com is my home base. That's where you'll see the blog. That's where you'll see links to the strength running podcast, which is available in Apple music, Spotify, Stitcher, most of the major platforms. So those are the two major sources or platforms rather where you can find, you know, the content that I make. Uh, we have a video channel on YouTube as well, but, you know, considering that we talked so much about coordination and strength and movement, uh, you know, I do have a strength course at strengthrunning.com/strength that I think is really great. Speaker 3: (57:23) It kind of looks at a lot of the myths that runners believe about strength, training and addresses those and give some case studies and example exercises that, you know, I think forces runners to think differently about strength training, because like I mentioned earlier, it's not cross training. It's just part of the training that you have to do. So I think that's really important and runners can check that out if they're interested, but I'm also on social media. You can find me on Twitter or Instagram at Jasonfitz1, and you have any questions I'd be happy to help. Yeah. You're brilliant. You're brilliant, brilliant coach. You're brilliant role model. Uh, and, and I really thank you for your time today, cause it's been really, really cool just to treat the fact with you and to spend some time, um, different backgrounds, but, uh, we've come to very similar conclusions, which is interesting. Uh, and it's been really awesome to speak here today. So thank you very much, Jason. Well, thanks Lisa. And if I ever make it back to New Zealand, I'm going to hit you up for a, for a great trail run. Sounds awesome. But I'll be a little bit slower than you, right? Speaker 1: (58:30) That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer.   Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience. To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to  www.vielight.com Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices. For more information on photobiomodulation and this area of medicine visit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5215795/   About Dr Lew Lim Dr. Lew Lim is an engineer with additional diplomas in Medical Neuroscience and Business and Accountancy. He obtained his degrees and diplomas from the University of California at Berkeley, University of Sheffield, Duke University, Quantum University and The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, UK.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:11) We'll come back to pushing the limits and thank you for joining me once again, super excited. I have a dr. Lew Lim, who's going to be sharing his insights about something called photo biomodulation. Now, dr. Lim is the founder and CEO of vielight.com. And this is the device that, uh, uses lasers to stimulate the brain and to stimulate healing. And he's going to do a deep dive into the topic of photobiomodulation. Now, this has been a big part of my mom's recovery, so really excited to be able to share these insights with you. Now, before we get over to the show, just want to remind you to check out my book. Relentless. If you haven't got a copy, why not? Why haven't you got a copy yet? You must go and get a copy. It's available in bookstores all throughout New Zealand. It's also available online at my website, at least photometry.com, which has all the international links via Amazon and audio books, Kendall, etc.. Speaker 2: (01:10) So it's available all around the world and it's called relentless how a mother and daughter defied the odds. And I really love you to read a copy, get inspired, get empowered, to take control of your own and your loved one's health and not to just wait around thinking that everything's going to be all right. That's what the show is about. Is it empowering for your health, for your performance and taking control a little bit more in your own life, right over to the show now with dr. L,ew Lim and I do hope you enjoy this awesome interview. Speaker 2: (01:45) Hi everyone. And welcome back to this week's episode of pushing the limits today. I have a very special guest and I've been wanting to interview this wonderful doctor for a long, long time. Um, he, he has whether he's known it or not influenced my mom's journey with her recovery. And as you, my listeners will know, uh, with mom's brain aneurysm. I we've done a lot of tricks to find answers to help her. And this was one of the ones that I went down. So today I have dr. Lew Lim from the Vielight company with us, dr. Lew, welcome to the show. Thank you for inviting me to speak with you. It's very exciting to talk to you. You're an incredible man, an incredible scientist, uh, and you, you, you're an engineer, you have an MBA and you're a neuroscientist in a natural doctor. Ha ha. How ha how do you do all of that in one lifetime? And my emphasis today is really on this field of photobiomodulation photobiomodulation spread out the, a lot of areas Speaker 3: (03:00) As you might probably know. So it covers anything from aesthetic cosmetic when healing, um, skin, rejuvenation, hair growth, and, you know, um, even, um, affecting, when you, when you go into the facade physiological site, it can affect your, uh, blood circulation. You know, you can, um, can help with pain and that cause for, um, an understanding of the, what the different parameters can do it, the mechanisms. And, uh, but we, you know, I feel that there's a lot to be discovered for the brain and what it can do. So there's my mind. My emphasis is I guess it requires, um, background in of course neuroscience and these ologies natural medicine engineering thing that plays a very big part. So it of skills together. Speaker 2: (04:07) So photo biomodulation, it's a very big word. And a lot of people probably haven't even heard of what that is. Can you break that down? That the photo part, the bio part and the modulation part and what it actually means? Speaker 3: (04:22) Yeah. Um, for, for a long time, this, this whole field was first discovered in 1967. So you went through the process of being called for therapy, cold laser therapy, low level laser therapy. Um, for many years it was known as low level light therapy because it doesn't necessarily have to be laser. And a few years ago, the scientists in this world got together and say, Hey, we've got to have a unifying description of what, what is modality is. And we can go ahead and register with the medical. I think it's like a medical library in the U S then you could get codes and be recognized. And so and so on. And so I guess people got together and decided, okay, let's call it photobiomodulation. And I thought, this is a really big word, but I guess over the last few years, it kind of got more and more accepted and now it flows off people's tongue more easily. And, uh, for those like, you know, bio it's to do with the biology, the organisms in your body, and so on a modulation is to change, modify, or either, uh, generally we aim for the good, but overdoing, it can be bad, so it's actually modulating and modifying the party. Speaker 2: (05:54) So, so when we talk about, you know, we think about, I know a lot of ladies out there would be a know that lasers are very good for the skin. You'd go to your local, um, beautician and they do laser therapy, uh, for, for skin rejuvenation. Um, I know that there was a study, a, an older study on, um, rats or mice where the here the hair grew. So they use it for here, regeneration for skin regeneration. Um, but there's, there's a whole lot more to lasers. Uh, and, and, and photobiomodulation then just, uh, here and skin, um, can you explain the different wave links and what they do and the different colors of the spectrum, if you like, uh, of the, the, the, the photo spectrum or the wavelengths and what, what they do the different, the different wavelengths in the power of the hand. Speaker 3: (06:45) So when you talk about photobiomodulation, we're mainly referring to red and near infrared light, and why do we constrain, you know, this, this is his window. And that's for several reasons, we, you know, you have, if you go to the high energy, N that would be a blue and go to ultraviolet going, then you go the extra gamma rays. So then you have the longer way flying beyond new, for ready to get fined for red. Then you get into microwave and radio waves. So it gives you a sense that these are all electromagnetic waves. So it's not like they're all light. They're not all like x-ray. And, um, that covers, you know, the covers radio waves. So it gives you a sense that the longer the wavelength, the further it penetrates radio waves goes through anything, shorter wavelengths, high energy. It doesn't penetrate much, not even the skin. Speaker 3: (07:52) When you go into the ratio, grape Lang shorter than say, ultra violence. And then you go into X experience, so on, but very high energy can start getting you to imaging, but that's a, but then you get into that spectrum where it can mutate, you know, they call it ionizing until your DNA and cause you problems like cancer, but I absorbed by the mitochondria and the cells mitochondria are, uh, mainly known to be responsible for your energy. So energy, energy, anything will do you think involves, uh, energy from nomadic mitochondria now? So the absorption is mainly within the mitochondria. There is something called the respiratory chain, electronic transport chain and we all. And so those of us who study biology will remember that it is responsible for creating the energy. So this your ITP yup. The ATP and the theory is red and infrared light gets absorbed in the respiratory chain that releases more ATP E and freeze is naturally oxide. Speaker 3: (09:13) Um, that's clogged up in the chain and causes the cell to function below normal, to freeze that nitric oxide goes into your body. It helps with circulation because that's what nitric oxide does. Then it does other things like, you know, has released a transient free, radical ROS, reactive oxygen species, which also signaling molecules. Then at least with gene transcription, creating this protein that helps to heal. So you get your skin rejuvenation because it releases these proteins create these proteins that causes healing tissues, that improve collagen level. So that kind of thing. So, so it's mainly written your infrared. Like there are some, uh, debate now about whether it is mainly for many years. Uh, most of us have been thinking that you've seen the enzyme called cytochrome C oxidase in the, one of the respiratory chain doing, doing this, but today maybe it's not, maybe it is, it is to do with, um, you know, that, uh, trans um, well, that's the membrane the, well, I forget, but it's the, the membrane, the, the water, the membrane, the water and the memory layer. So that, that it may actually reduce the viscosity and help the, uh, some people call it nano meter, but it creates more ATP that we were able to do that better. Speaker 2: (10:53) Okay. So, so, Speaker 3: (10:56) Yep. Speaker 2: (10:57) So mitochondria as a word, you know, that, um, is extremely important. I don't think a lot of people understand what mitochondria do. So mitochondria are like the little power packs and every single cell when it's actually a, an ancient bacteria, that's coming to the human, uh, system billions of years ago when we were evolving and the mitochondria is responsible for, uh, the synergy production in the cell. So when you have a photo biomodulation device from say your company, and it is sending in a read or near infrared light wave, the mitochondria is stimulates the mitochondria without going into the biochemical processes, but it stimulates the mitochondria to create more energy and more energy for healing. Is it sort of a very, you know, high level sort of layperson's overview of how that works? Speaker 3: (11:57) Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess, you know, it comes down to something called on gene transcription. So the listen to this. So, um, so I guess energy's a very easy, easy way to remember it, but it's very involved producing the right proteins. Um, you don't want to overdo it, you know, when you already do it, you overwhelm, you produce more free radicals than you want to. And again, negatively Frank. So, so some understanding of that, you know, it being low level and, um, just do the necessary thing and not overdo it, not doing it too often can lead to good things. Yeah. Speaker 2: (12:43) Yeah. Okay. So, so it's a bit like, uh, you know, exercise, you know, the right amount of exercise is good for us doing too much is not good for us or not. You know, this is why you build your fitness, um, up and in the body. Uh, so it creates a hormetic stress. If you like, is that what, uh, the, the, these devices are doing? So the light is doing, creating a hermetic stress that has them, or is it Speaker 3: (13:11) Actually, there's a lot of similarity, right? Too much of exercise to reduce the stress comes with a lot of free radicals, free radicals, not EBIT, not being able to clear it, you know, and then even under some sort of stress because, um, I actually, there was just a paper that was published a few days ago. The thing that mitochondria is also linked to the anxiety level, this is stress is you create this unnecessary Mount of all. It's not, you, you're getting the stress hormones in your body in, in the same way this it's causing you anxiety. So for the mitochondria, uh, wellbeing is key. You want to release it from stress. So I guess that's one of the reasons why a low level light therapy for the biomodulation is helpful because it just supports the mitochondrial respiratory chain, this whole functionality to reduce it. So that's one way to look at it Speaker 2: (14:25) And you've developed, so you have a company called Vielight. So everyone we're going to, you know, put the, the links in the show notes to the devices that be like hairs and all the publications and all clinical studies around these incredible devices. And for those watching on the, uh, the video channel here, um, these are two of the devices that I've had for a number of years. And dr. Lew, you've got the most advanced one there. Um, so I've got the nasal. Wow. That's a serious piece of kit. Speaker 3: (14:59) Yeah. He goes, there's one, that's like yours. He goes to the brain. Right. Brilliant. Speaker 2: (15:09) So for those watching on video, you can see dr. Lew has the neuro, which is one of the big transcranial photobiomodulation devices and the ones that I've got here, I've got a six, five, five prime intra-nasal. So, and the another one where the infrared wavelengths of 18, and I use those both pretty much every day to every second day for 20 minutes. Um, and look how good my brain's going. And more importantly, how good my mum's brain is now going. Um, so can you explain why intra-nasal, so we have to get the light on the inside of the body in order for this to work. Now, it's pretty hard to get light through your, we have a, we know about vitamin D synthesis will mirror in the sun, um, and what an avalanche of things that, that causes in the body. Good things. Um, can you explain why intra-nasal and other, other methods to get it into the bottle? Speaker 3: (16:13) Yeah, there is, uh, you know, we've, we've got this, this, uh, invented discovered, uh, in actually about 15 years ago now actually like quite a long time already. And, and, uh, so when we got to working, because this whole field of photobiomodulation in the eighties got into a stage where the Russians started to introduce intravenous and infrared light. Now, the theory is you put it there instead of on your skin and you find more power is getting into your plus circulation directly. And what they found was it actually helps a number of things. You know, the circulation improves better users of recovery more quickly from, from injuries, from surgery. It seems to help with preventing failures and helping to recover. Then you led to studies of diabetes and finding that users are getting more of a better profile marker profile from your annual examination of medical exam. Speaker 3: (17:43) Then they, and then it wasn't really fully understood for a long time, but they know that effect is systemic. Uh, and quite a lot of what we've done later in, uh, researchers in Israel, but finding a Randy, the right, like in animal study, um, to the female of the type bone of the, of the rodent. And they had a Scot hot tissue from simulated heart attack, or from simulator, uh, brain injury or disease, we found that the recovery is better and they can, can see the improvement in the markers as well. Wow. And in the, um, in the not too long ago, I think a few, a few years ago, the researchers in Australia, particularly at university of Sydney, was trying to understand because they were doing studies in Parkinson's in animals. And, uh, they found, uh, similar experiments, you know, mice or arrests. They were bred with transgenic rests with Parkinson's symptoms, uh, actually improved when they erected, like to the, the time. Wow. They did that with, uh, later on sustaining mice with Alzheimer's disease. Speaker 3: (19:17) Wow. I think there is the funding now, or to do a study on what happens if you do a probe into the brain they're actually done in animals and found that it seems to improve the markers in that area of the brain. Wow. So, so like does something, he does, you know, very close to it. It helps a lot, even though it's far away from me, it has this systemic effect. And it's trying to explain it at the time the, you know, some descriptions are used, like abscopal effect kind of like cancer, where you have to one side, another side of their body response, they are equally circulating factors, but not being what it was, but it was just, I think last, last year in 2019, that there was a paper published showing that, uh, there are lots of free floating mitochondria in your body, in the blood. Speaker 3: (20:17) So now we understand that [inaudible] affects the mitochondria. Now, what if you have now circulating mitochondria all the way the body. Wow. And then they kind of really, it just rung a bell, you know, too many of us that said, you know, that's one of the main explanations of why, you know, it has a system, your friend, because mitochondria is in the blood, your blood circulates through your system several times a minute. So guess all over your body. And there was another study in Montreal, two, three years back, three or four years back where the mitochondria also gets deposited, deposited into various parts of the body where it is needed. So you put all these together. It kind of explains from the nose and the nose is good because the, the blood vessels, the, you know, close to the surface, the membrane, so capitalism, very close, pretty tense. Then this is where it gets, you know, it gets all the whole body. Speaker 2: (21:27) So you, when you, you stick it up your nose, so I'm going to demonstrate for those watching on video. Basically you put it up your nose like this, and, uh, this is the 18. Um, so there's not there's. So all the blood in the body is going past this, this area here, isn't it. So it's actually, those light waves are hitting your entire blood supply through the, the intra-nasal delivery mechanism. Is that right? Speaker 3: (21:54) Yeah. That the nasal area is actually one of the areas where there's more blood capillaries per square centimeter, and most parts of the body isn't necessarily because, um, you know, it controls the moisture level, you know, and then you get processed very quickly. Now I'm involved in quite a lot of research on the brain and that's, that's quite important when we use the eight, 10 metal meters. It penetrates deeper. Certainly here's the olfactory bulb and all factors. Bob is always a part of your brain and there's a direct channel to the memory area, the hippocampus, the hippocampus, then we've noticed improvement in memory function. Um, so that led us to, you know, literally develop all these other things and do a clinical trial on Alzheimer's disease, which they're doing now. Um, he's also, there's a direct channel to the Thomas, which is telling us, does this, it, uh, it receives signals from other parts of body and disabilities to different parts of your brain to process it, but that the olfactory is very important. When you have a certain neurological condition, a number of other things, the, you lose the sense of smell. Wow. Early, before you went the other senses, Speaker 2: (23:27) That's one of the warning signs of Alzheimer's isn't it. And the left side, I believe when you lose or you smell Speaker 3: (23:33) Apparently. Yeah. Speaker 2: (23:35) It's an early detection. Um, uh, thanks. So the olfactory, so you, obviously you smell, uh, very closely connected or very close proximity to the hippocampus, which processes, memory, um, enter the hummus. Speaker 3: (23:50) No, you see, it has a direct connection actually to the hippocampus. Wow. Okay. Speaker 2: (23:54) Okay. So, um, so this is why it can have an effect. So when I'm putting the, the, the Vielight up my nose there, the 18 that is stimulating the mitochondria in the blood, that's passing that, that area, uh, in the brain, but also penetrating deeper into the, into the hippocampus, uh, into the development. Speaker 3: (24:15) No, it has to be technical. The direct channel is to the cortex, which is like a gateway to the hippocampus. They're kind of part of the whole system. Speaker 2: (24:26) You are doing a clinical trial at the moment with Alzheimer's patients. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when, when would this, uh, you know, be, you know, it's hard to comment on a clinical trial in the middle of it. Um, but what are you looking for? What's the hypothesis behind this, this clinical trial? What are you hoping to see? Speaker 3: (24:47) Well, we are totally suspended because of the pandemic. Of course, our target demographics actually moderate to severe patients dot companies have for a long time, try to, um, address the mother form, you know, because hopefully you get a result. Um, the trials generally fail, so this is the more cognitive impairment. So now drug companies are looking into, researching into a prodromal stage before the symptoms appear. Hopefully one day they get know, becomes a vaccine. You, uh, you use it and you prevent you from getting Alzheimer's disease and they don't, I guess they're going to pair it with, if you have copies of certain genes that are related. Speaker 2: (25:52) Yep. Just had mine tested so Speaker 3: (25:58) Happening right now, but there's a company Biogen and things because they got y'all just recently there's you got fast tracked by quick fostering review by FDA because it shows some, they reanalyze the whole data in one of the clinical trials and say, okay, maybe there's something that not sure the details, but you're counting, you know, to do a fast track to update, but you've got to understand that Alabama's disease is multifactorial involves many, many things. It does not a dessert genes. It's interplay of the genes. The markers are not, just am a lot better and alive aspect of it. And a growing number of scientists who believe that, uh, this long held belief or the para beta amyloid being the main thing is maybe not, you know, the progression of Alzheimer's maybe more to do with the tower towers where, uh, these markers are associated with your neurons strangling itself from the insight. Wow. Yeah. Just dealing with the pathogens and things that don't, you know, that, uh, outside of the neurons. So there are many, many, many things in play genes and genes. When you talk about gene is very, very complex, then there is other factors introduced. We found that if you're undergo stress brain injury, it just triggers it. I found that to be the case as well. Yeah. Speaker 2: (27:38) Yep. So, yeah. Um, so, so you, your trial's been suspended at the moment because of the pandemic. That's a, that's a real shame, but what are you, you've already had a number of trials done in the past, in different areas? What is it being showing in those trials? What have you managed to sort of show that uh, photobiomodulation does and delivering it through these mechanisms? Speaker 3: (28:04) Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, before I started, uh, just so the, the interesting thing about photobiomodulation is, and this, I guess it's relates to functional medicine where you try to address this whole problem at its most fundamental, basic level, which is the cell, the mitochondria mitochondria is everywhere. All the energy comes from there and a lot of other things happening. So I guess if we can tackle it at a very basic fundamental level, then these other symptoms and markers, they come many levels above, uh, can be, you know, hopefully you will try to resolve that Speaker 2: (28:42) Makes it makes so much sense. That makes so much sense to me. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 3: (28:47) And so what we're, so for this particular demographics we're doing, uh, like I mentioned, moderate to severe, and they are pretty far advanced, you know, almost all of them require, uh, the involvement of caregivers because they're not independent. And, uh, and, uh, so we have a battery of tests that particularly apply to them the most of the cases, but, you know, case reports we use, uh, you know, tests for cognitive impairment, you know, um, ads, you know, as I might do these assessments of cognition, we use MMSC mini mental state exam. Uh, we have, uh, uh, yeah, these are amazing. And we have clinical, um, observation reports. And so we found that we, we did one, we started seriously studying Alzheimer's patients and dementia patient in 2015. Have you published this in 2017? It's a small number of cases with the new role you saw is pounds at 10 Hertz, 10 times a second. Speaker 3: (30:08) And that is we do it because it, uh, it used the data from animal study done at Harvard and Massachusetts general by Michael Henry's lab shows that it shows the animal recovery more quickly from brain injury. Wow. So we use 10 Hertz, but he hasn't explored a whole range of frequencies. So use that. It seems to help in this most studies then, uh, then, uh, university of California, San Francisco, uh, professors in the child did a complete, okay. Um, she wanted to replicate what we did and I said, okay, use 40 Hertz because 40 hers, um, in 2016, there were a lot of publications is to do, you know, it shows a 40 Hertz is gamma. This is associated with it's one. You find radio when you're your hippocampus trying to encode memory. So it shows 40 minutes of the memory coding. It helps to reduce the excited toxicity in the brain, you know, when you're in memory and stuff like that, MIT did a very published, very important study towards the end of 2016 dates. It showed that the rent, the direct, when like pals, when you put animals in a cage, the routers or the cage you pass like this externally 40 times a second for years, uh, they, they, uh, you know, the, the markers a better, more like count in a brain region. Speaker 3: (31:51) I've heard of that study. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've been using that. Yep. Right. So we thought, okay, they are still doing this. They're, they're still doing studies trying to do human studies. And what they found was the, the markers in the visual context reduced drastically, but not anywhere else on your body when your hippocampus. And I reckon that's because when the animals in the cage, you know, at 40 Hertz was processed to the eyes, goes to the visual cortex and then the markers significantly. Oh, so intra-nasal no, I in photobiomodulation what we do is we direct light renewing for relax. You can penetrate. Yep. And we target, uh, and the default mode network, which is closely associated also with Alzheimer's disease. And, um, so I, so I did a case, I did a single case and it wasn't published. It was presented in Alzheimer's conference. Speaker 3: (33:00) Uh, but Linda, uh, Linda told the, that on eight patients. Wow. And then what's yours. They improve, you know, over 12 weeks. And she also found that. So she's, uh, she's also a professor of radiology. You see? I said, so she used the MRI scan FMR. Oh, actually after 12 weeks, the, you know, the, the, the functions of the brain actually measured through FMR improves significantly as well. Wow. Improving the default mode network. So she did an independent study, the subjects, she used a similar scale EDS, coffin. She did the MRI and found that even through imaging, you know, it confirmed the anxious, but that's fantastic because, you know, you can argue about whether it should be a placebo study and all that, but imaging imaging. Speaker 2: (34:07) Exactly. You can't argue with it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Speaker 3: (34:12) That was great that we are doing this, Speaker 2: (34:16) You use, so she's using the 40, uh, Hertz, um, w is it delivered through your, your devices or through the intra-nasal and transcranial? Yeah. So it's not, it's not like with the rat study where it's actually just in the, in the room, so to speak, it's actually getting, getting in to the, so that, that makes a whole lot of sense. And, um, so I'm pro functioned over a 12 week period is a pretty short period of time. Um, I wonder what would happen if you did that for a year, you know, w with, with Speaker 3: (34:50) No one, one thing about this and Alzheimer's disease, Alzheimer's disease, if neurodegenerative, so the person would just keep declining decline because of the genome, you know, the function of the genes and there's, uh, so there's not much you can do until you can maybe edit the genes or you can change the gene in some way. So users of our device will unfortunately have to use it forever for the rest of their lives, because this is the stop, the degeneration, but the good thing is our devices a home use. Yeah. So I have to say that, you know, this, this studies are just a few, a few subjects it's very easily dismissed with, you know, it's not statistically, so we reserve our judgment or claim until they've done the full study. So that's Speaker 2: (35:56) Yeah, but the thing is dr. Lew, if you have a loved one who has Alzheimer's now, and you have a, and this is a, you know, my approach with my mum, I can wait 10 years, 20 years for various clinical studies to prove it, say hyperbaric, uh, works or, uh, um, photobiomodulation works or, you know, these things, but these are pretty low risk, uh, interventions. Um, so my argument is, well, we'll let you know if it's my loved one. I'm definitely trying it, you know, like I wanna, uh, I want to use it even if these studies are preliminary studies and they're not yet fully accepted by the scientific community, there's a value for the person listening to this, recording her, um, you know, who wants to do something proactive now who has a loved one, who's suffering from something like this, um, to, to try, you know, um, and if, if we, you know, if we wait forever and to all of the clinical trials for everything is done, you know, we all have to weigh up our own, uh, risk reward scenario. Speaker 2: (37:04) Um, but you know, in the case of my mum, um, we've, you know, we were given no hope that she would ever have any quality of life. Again, massive brain damage, unable to even, she didn't know her name, no memory, no ability to move anything by having a, um, uh, an approach that says, well, I'm going to try everything that is fairly low risk. So I did the risk assessment on each of the interventions that I, that I used with here. And if it wasn't a high risk, I'm going to put it in the, in the bag to do, we're going to do this. And then multipronged approach. Now, I can't say specifically, uh, it was definitely the Vielight eight, one 10 that did it, or if it was the hyperbaric that did it, or if it was the functional genomics or the epigenetics or the new tropics, um, but it worked and she is an anomaly and she, she, she's an exceptional case. And I think it's really important that, you know, um, we have, uh, the right to sort of in these low risk technologies to have a go, you know, and try it. If, if you've got a loved one where it's time bound in you, you need help quickly. And this is why, you know, these preliminary studies are just as important, I think, as the full blown, um, you know, uh, clinical trials that costs a lot of money, um, to end a lot of time, a lot Speaker 3: (38:36) Of people's part to actually have. So I think it's exciting that we have these preliminary trials. Yeah, we, the devices and knowing those America, like the U S so we fall under the category. That is the guidelines or FDA defining this as a low risk general wellness device. So we're not regulated in the U S in Canada where we're based, we are considered a consumer device because it's same is low risk. It's a very similar category. So, uh, so we don't make a claim because it's not a medical device. So we have slightly modified version four for medical devices that are going, this is not a lot different, um, talking about what your mom's going through. We, we, um, we have a tall, a study that's going on at Boston university for traumatic brain injury. And again, that's suspended because of predominate, but that is a, there is an ongoing study and Margaret Liza, the professor there has published some papers already, and she's got, I think some that's not published, but she's taught quite a lot about, uh, you know, money, brain injury, getting treated with photobiomodulation, she's doing this study. Speaker 3: (40:00) We, what we have she's, uh, she's presented, she's done a number of presentations. I think that's being submitted of publications in the case of athletes, professional football players. So they go to repeat it, you know, banging on a head and to get again, a CTE CT, which is, uh, then they, when a, as they get older, they get this, the symptoms are similar to Alzheimer's disease. Dementia, degenerative what's happening is, is repeat your rebuild. It blows on the head has created a situation, right? It's the cow accumulates and starts strangling the neurons in your brain, shrink. It goes to the atrophy. Then you get to a stage where a number of them became suicidal. They get really depressed, you know, with atrophy, you're going to be cognitively impaired. There is a, a number of, um, you know, professional sports, men, football players who retired, who actually wrote, have written testimonials. Speaker 3: (41:12) They're trying to tell each other. And, uh, but again, we need to do this studies to, to, you know, to be sure that it is doing what we think is doing, but you can check yourself. One of them is every carr. His last name is C a R R. So you can Google it, find his blog. And he's talking about, you know, he was interviewed by several newspapers and his Billy for him . And he got, he learned about this because he went to, he went to the Boston university where they're supposed to be a hub of research football, or retired is a American football players brains. Or she ran, he ran and he ran the Sierra. And Ricky was like the big, probably the biggest name in the research for a city. And she connected him to Margaret Naser. We call it him. And now he's writing about it. Wow. You know, you have to prove it, Speaker 2: (42:16) Even though it's anecdotal. Yeah. It's anecdotal, but it's actually, it's one person's life that has been changed through this. Yeah. So Margaret nicer I'll I'll look her up. Yeah, Speaker 3: (42:26) No, the only one, there was another paper that just published with a professional hockey player, ice hockey, um, who got treated again by Linda Shaw at UCF. And he had, you know, bringing the jury on, started out his symptoms improve. And she did now what, what she did was very interesting. That's never been done. She, again, she's a professor of radiology and she found use MRI scan and found that his, his brain actually regrouped because MRI, they could measure the volume, the growth of volume in the brain. Wow. So that is, that is quite profound. I can send you this link. Hang on. Actually, it hasn't been published. I've got the pre-published. Speaker 2: (43:17) Do you want him to wait? Speaker 3: (43:19) Well, publication. So come combine frontiers of urology and maybe the next couple of issues. Yeah. Speaker 2: (43:25) Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I mean, this is an exciting area of medicine that, you know, looking at all of these things, um, and, and whether it's for mitochondria for, for, for, for wellness and producing more energy and, you know, it's the basis of so many diseases as mitochondrial insufficiency and problems with the mitochondria. Um, so anything that can help support the mitochondria is going to help everybody probably. Um, um, so it's an exciting area that dr. Lou, I won't keep you much longer because you've been very, very generous with your time today. Um, it's been marvelous. I'm, I'm absolutely fascinated with this area, and I really want to thank you for the work you're doing, because it is due to people like you, uh, that, you know, the, one of the reasons why my mum is now completely normal again, after this long battle. Um, and it's one of the, the tools and devices that was very, very helpful for her. Speaker 2: (44:25) And no, I can't prove that clinically in the clinical trial setting, but that is my, uh, belief. Um, and, and therefore, it was really important for me to share this information about photobiomodulation and to give people the awareness, to be able to start to know what it is about, and to do a deeper dive for themselves and to watch out for the studies that are coming through and to try your devices out. So, dr. Lee, where can people, um, contact you and your team, um, and to check out the devices? Um, actually we've got a code. Um, I've got a code Thomas T just the word he at checkout. If anybody wants to buy one of dr. Lou's devices, um, you can use that and get a 10% discount. Just use the word Tommasi at checkout has team has called me, provided that, uh, for me. Um, so dr. Lou, where can they contact reach out to you and your team? Um, and what's the best way to do that? Speaker 3: (45:22) Yeah. Go to the website. You can, there is a page where you can ask questions or you write to info@vielight.com Speaker 2: (45:31) Info.com. Speaker 3: (45:34) Great. And yeah, we're so next, next time we can talk what he does for us. Speaker 2: (45:39) Okay, excellent. Yeah, because this is you. Yeah. You, you, you mentioned, uh, before we went into the interview and started recording that this is this new area that you're going into a, uh, for sports people, uh, to help with things like coordination and motor abilities. Um, so this is another very exciting area of research. Speaker 3: (46:01) Yeah. Yeah. And also how to handle the stress of a competition. That's huge. We're also about study study or meditation. Speaker 2: (46:14) Ah, that's what we haven't covered. Speaker 3: (46:17) Study comes out of rehabilitation. It's super exciting. It's, uh, we've, we've found that, uh, especially this is especially for longterm meditators and they get, uh, so long term meditators, gamma and praying, you know, they get switched on to that state quickly, but we can, um, you know, we have another device called in Europe where we can post from anything from zero to 10,000 and long term meditators have a window. You get into that particular frequency, they just get into an altered state right away. Wow. That's very exciting. Speaker 2: (46:58) That's exciting. So I'll be able to, you know, like instead of spending 40 years trying to work out how to meditate properly and to quickly get into these altered States that, that happen in meditation, we may be able to just put, plug in a device, your device and, uh, get there much, much quicker and to a relaxed and meditative state and have the right brainwaves going. So that's um, so you've got, can you just explain before we do wrap up, um, the different brainwaves and what is stimulated by, uh, the photobiomodulation and what, what is down-regulate Speaker 3: (47:35) As far as brainwaves skies? Yeah. We are noticing that we can use, you know, certain brainwaves influence of waves in the brain, uh, hopefully to, you know, for the brain function better. When your brain gets into a certain state where you're relaxed with your stress you're processing information, or you get into a certain zone, they can be identified with certain brainwave patterns. If you are suffering from attention deficit, your brain with patterns are exhibited in a certain way. We all different too. And so we recognize that and, and there's still a learning process, you know, uh, I can give you an example. You can be you maybe not able to focus and pay attention because see your brain is locked into very slow way and it's difficult to get out of it. And you've again, so it is hyper coherence. And if you can break that up, and I think there's a way to bring it up by introducing, uh, asynchronous patterns and you can free yourself of these locked-in wow. Speaker 3: (48:52) That's hypothetical, but we're going to do a lot of studies, uh, to do that. We got, we have a new, yeah, we have this very advanced model is going to beta testing now is going to help us explore because now you'll be able to see, okay, this person is getting, EEG is looking this way is not right. And you want to change this, then let's induce certain Braven, correct. We've learned to correct it and see what happens. That's hypothetical. And I just did a presentation for the neurofeedback conference talking about various types of brain stimulation, and people are trying to achieve that state. But I think, I think we will be closer than anybody else by the Creek. And do you know, and close look processing if your brain showing this EEG, but you want to achieve another one automatically we set the parameters to correct it right away. Speaker 2: (49:55) That would be so powerful because then I'll be able to go from a state of high performance, into a state of relaxation within minutes for hips, and then to sleep and lower my stress levels, you know, and someone who has problems with, um, too many too, too much brain. Um, yeah, I need to be able to slow things down. So, so being able to do something like that and change. So which of the, the, the, the gamer, uh, so you got alpha beta, uh, theater gamer, which ones are you wanting to upregulate? If you're wanting to increase cognitive performance, as opposed to reducing stress and slowing down, Speaker 3: (50:38) You know, what I'm finding is when your brain is encoding processing information and trying to absorb it's, uh, it's including a very high frequencies. I gamma maybe 80 minutes, you know, and when you are reproducing, it, it could be 40. And then I've seen studies should be 10 because 10 is where you're more relaxed as well. Um, and then there are cognitive performance enhancement where they show you should be coupled with what memory processing data, which is required. It's very slow above four, five, six Hertz and gamma. So I know I've got, uh, and, uh, so you, you, you reproduce it, read the gamma FOS brief is actually a couple with a slow wave. So the slow cycle, you see the fast ones. Wow. And that is, that is all possible just knowing which part of the brain is being produced. So content husband, I'm actually looking at it right now, but, uh, but I say, you know, if you're learning, you're training, you're trying to process you. You want to help your brain. Like, you know, you can induce fast frequencies doing that. And when you go into competition, you want to be collected and you want to be able to reproduce it and not too slow. You want to be, you know, perhaps 10 minutes, which is the alpha to give you a tennis player. You've got someone who is very highly ranked, who's using a device. Speaker 2: (52:20) Wow. That's good. Speaker 3: (52:23) Because you know, a tennis match goes on little five hours. You gotta be strategizing thinking, not just reacting all the time. Right. So that's a, Speaker 2: (52:36) You may be able to in the future, be able to influence the state that we want to be in for that particular time, whether that's distress reduction or whether that's high performance or whether that's, you know, cognitive enhancement. So that's a really exciting area too. Speaker 3: (52:54) Yeah. Speaker 2: (52:55) And not all of us have got, you know, 10 hours a day to sit around on a mountain and to be, um, learning from the monks. Unfortunately, that would be fantastic. But if we can shortcut that process perhaps to getting into the right room, Speaker 3: (53:09) Well, meditation studies dealing with people who are already pretty advanced, but yeah, you do that stage. Like this is a step of a finger, you know? Wow. Very quickly. That sounds excellent. Yeah. Speaker 2: (53:21) That sounds like something I need for sure. Okay. Dr. Lew, well, thank you very much for your time today for all this incredible work that you've doing. Um, all the good that you're doing in the world. Thank you very much. Um, on behalf of my mum as well. Thank you very much. Um, and, uh, it's, it's been fascinating to talk to you. Um, so everybody go to Vielight.com. That's V I E L I G H t.com. And if you're wanting to purchase any of the, um, devices that are available to the consumer, use the code T A M A T I at checkout and get a 10% discount. And if you've got any questions for dr. Lew and his team, please reach out to him there on the contact page there. So, dr. Lew, thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for having me. It's been fantastic Speaker 1: (54:09) That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

 On this week's show, Mary-Rose and Ryan Verret join us to discuss their “Be Light” Virtual Date Night Series and the marriage mystagogia they share through their ministry Witness to Love. About Ryan and Mary-Rose Verret: Mary-­Rose and Ryan Verret are the founders of Witness to Love and authors of Witness to Love: How to Help the Next Generation Build Marriages that Survive and Thrive. Ryan and Mary-Rose speak on issues regarding evangelization, marriage, NFP, miscarriage and medical ethics. They reside in the heart of Cajun Country with their five children. Their passion is teaching couples to share their marriage with others! About Witness to Love: Witness to Love is a virtues-based, Catechumenate model of marriage renewal and preparation that integrates modern principles of psychology and the virtues to help couples facilitate an authentic dialogue about their relationship. For more information visit www.WitnesstoLove.com  Check out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

On this week's show, producer Natasha Howes offers behind the scenes insights into the soon-to-be-released film "Fatima", opening August 14 nationwide. About Natasha Howes: Natasha Howes has produced several adaptations of the Fátima story: The 13th Day (2009), an award-winning digital feature that is available in eight languages and 11 territories worldwide; “The Fátima Story” (2010), a large-scale, multi-language photo-story experience staged in Fátima, Portugal; and an instructional DVD on the meaning and message of the story. Howes’ other credits include Late Harvest (2016), a musical drama that won the Golden Sheaf Award, and 3D documentary Cosmic Origins.  About Fatima: In 1917, outside the parish of Fátima, Portugal, a 10-year-old girl and her two younger cousins witness multiple visitations of the Virgin Mary, who tells them that only prayer and suffering will bring an end to World War I. As secularist government officials and Church leaders try to force the children to recant their story, word of the sighting spreads across the country, inspiring religious pilgrims to flock to the site in hopes of witnessing a miracle. What they experience will transform their quiet lives and bring the attention of a world yearning for peace. Based on real-life events and starring Joaquim de Almeida (“Queen of the South”), Goran Višnjić (Beginners), Stephanie Gil (Terminator: Dark Fate) and Lúcia Moniz (Love, Actually), with Sônia Braga (Aquarius) and Harvey Keitel (The Piano, The Irishman), Fatima is an uplifting story about the power of faith.  For More Information:www.fatimathemovie.comCheck out books by Lisa Hendey at Amazon and find all of our book and movie suggestions at Lisa's Amazon Influencer list. For Lisa's speaking schedule visit www.LisaHendey.com. Send your feedback to lisahendey@gmail.com or connect with Lisa on social media @LisaHendey.

This week Lisa shares her insights into what Heavy metal poisoning is. It is the accumulation of various heavy metals in your body. Environmental and industrial factors expose you to high levels of heavy metals every day, including the foods you eat and air you breathe. Some of these metals — such as zinc, copper, and iron — are good for you in small amounts. But overexposure can lead to heavy metal poisoning over time.  Heavy Metals damage our bodies and brains in so many ways and none of us living in this toxic soup environment of our world is immune to it's effects so what can we do to support our bodies in detoxifying from things like Mercury, Arsenic, Lead, Cadmium, Thallium and co. In this webinar Lisa shares her heavy metal detox methods and what you need to be careful about. Symptoms of heavy metal toxicity vary depending on the type of metal you're overexposed to. Mercury, lead, arsenic and cadmium are some of the more common overexposed metals. Acute symptoms associated with these metals include: headaches abdominal pain and cramping nausea vomiting diarrhea fatigue difficulty breathing In more severe cases of chronic heavy metal poisoning, you may experience symptoms including: burning and tingling sensations chronic infections brain fog visual disturbances insomnia paralysis   This Webinar was developed as part of Lisa's new Brain Optimisation course.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"   Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:11) Well, hi everyone. Listen to how many here again and fantastic to have you back on the course today, we're going to be talk, talking about heavy metals and what they do in the body and why you need to be aware of this and why you need to get a test support and why it's important for brain health and a whole lot of stuff. So heavy metal poisoning. It affects nearly all of us. We are pretty much living in a toxic soup and now modern day environment that our bodies were not made for all the chemicals that are out there. There are a heck of a lot of heavy metals in our environment. Things like mercury thallium, Arsenic, Nickel, uranium, and lead and others. And this is leading to a boat up and our bodies, unfortunately, that everywhere in our environment, from our water supply and the soils that grow our food and the fish that we eat and the meat that we eat and even in the vegetables that we consume and the ear, of course, that we breathe not to mention all the chemicals that are in our houses. Speaker 2: (01:18) You'd be surprised at the amount of chemicals in our houses and offices and the like, and of course, through our cars and so on and through industry. Now, as these metals slowly build up over time, it's like a slow poisoning of the systems. And many of the things that we think of as aging are really just, well, can at least be partly attributed to heavy metal toxicity. So heavy metals slowly, we can ask some agents and cause cellular damage, and that can suppress also our thyroid functions, making us feel quite sluggish, cold and fatigued, and our immune system can also take a hit so we can get more infections and have immune system functional problems. So arsenic, cadmium lead and mercury are the most toxic and the most ubiquitous metals in our environments. The ones that we really need to be aware of, and these are all carcinogens. Speaker 2: (02:14) I E they can cause cancers. Now, there are others like chromium iron, copper zinc, and these are actually needed in the body. But if they are also into higher levels, it can be not actually optimal for us. Now, all of these metals are naturally occurring metals but through activities like mining and smelting and manufacturing, or they use some things like fuels and paint sucks, etc mean that they're no longer just deep, underground, like they were, but that they're actually up here with us in the soil, air and water. So what does the heavy metals do? Well, they affect our mitochondria. So our mitochondria, you're going to be hearing more about this in the, of a little factories. If you like that are producing energies in our cells via an electrical process. Now, these heavy metals and our bodies mess with that electrical process, and that causes a big impact on oxidative stress and cellular function, which leads them to aging and decline. Speaker 2: (03:19) Now, babies and children are even more vulnerable to these metals and pregnant woman has to be especially careful because if they are exposed to these middles, they can experience miscarriage. Carriages are premature birth and low birth weights, which can really affect a child for, for life. And if the child is exposed to this during the early childhood, this can cross the blood brain barrier and cause things like a lowered IQ and cognitive problems. Now lead exposure, for example, has been shown in studies to increase the cardiovascular disease dramatically. And it can double the risk of mortality for coronary heart disease. So really, really bad stuff. So lit damages, the cells that line, the blood vessels, it hardens the arteries and causes plaques to form. Now, once the Plex are present, the blood pressure increases, which increases the risk of heart disease and stroke. Speaker 2: (04:20) Now, anything that's gonna damage the, in the Lisio lining of yourselves is something that we want to avoid. So it's not only heavy metals that would do that or live that will do that. But it's one of the things that can cause inflammation on the endometrial cells. Now, nowadays we have, luckily they have taken the lead out of our fuels and paints. Thank goodness. And there was less of that in our environment now, but they have replaced in our fuels at least overseas. I haven't been able to get the data for New Zealand, but they have replaced the lead with cellular and sound. Liam is even worse than the lead. And they're like, there's no safe level for lead and there's no really safe level for failure. So Telium is used in things like rat poison, someone sick decides, and then the glass manufacturing end and the pharmaceutical industries, and it's a colorless tasteless poison. Speaker 2: (05:18) And it's, it causes the potassium in your, in your cells to fail. And potassium is really, really important. In fact, I nearly died of a lack of potassium in my late twenties when I've been doing too much sport and my electrolyte levels have fallen so low that my, my potassium levels got down to a point where my entire body cramps from my head to my toe all at once, including my heart and I nearly died. So I know that a lack of potassium can really effect now that wasn't caused through Sally and poisoning, but it belabors the point that if your potassium in your sales, then you're in big trouble. So even in small doses that causes to generate a changes in many of your organs. And it's most apparent in the nervous system who is lesions in the Bazell gang, it's really a part of the brain. Speaker 2: (06:11) And this is an area of the brain that can that has to do with speech and movement and posture. I know with mum's aneurysm that she had, that that part of the brain was damaged and she has problems motor problems and postural problems, but lead can also cause damage and lesions and that part of the brain. So, and another thing to be aware of now it's shown to be in many of our soils, which grow our food. So stellium, so Becky, sorry, tell me I'm not leaving as I was meaning before. So salium has been showing that it's a mini soils, which grow our food and there are a family vegetables the kales and the cabbages and the brassica families that are especially good at taking thallium back up out of the ground. It's actually so good that a one Chinese study, they found that the soil could be decontaminated terminated from planting a whole lot of cabbages that then sucked it up. Speaker 2: (07:14) Now, if we go and eat that cabbage or that kale, then we're obviously doing ourselves a disservice. So next time someone offers you some cold sore or something cabbage or something with kale in it. You might want to think about it. Where did it come from? So I want to talk now about mercury. Now this is while we're all probably aware of it's very problematic, heavy metal, it causes high blood pressure and cardiovascular diseases and neuro toxicity. It can appear cognitive function and motor skills. And it's found in fish, which unfortunately is a really important food source that has all our migas, DHS, and EPS, which are really good for our health, which are great. So unfortunately, those that fish also have mercury. Now there's something like 600 tons of mercury every year going into our oceans. So there's becoming more and more of the mercury around. Speaker 2: (08:12) So if you eat a lot of fish, which ostensibly would be healthy, this can lead to mercury toxicity. Now fish that are higher up the food chain are more effective than fish that had lower down the food chain and the, the fish that live here. They accused me. You mean like more mercury, so you don't want to be eating things like shark or swordfish. For example, you want to be having the smaller fish that aren't too old because the older fish will have higher levels of mercury in them. Then the, the smaller and younger fish, another major source of mercury poisoning is the amalgams our fillings, which, you know, growing up in the seventies, that's what they did. They stuck amalgam in our mouth. I had a mouth full of it. And I went into a dentist who knew how to get rid of amalgam fillings and make sure you go to a dentist who knows how to do that safely, because it's very important that you don't get the mercury toxicity because you went to a dentist who was not really equipped to deal with the amalgam and removing it because it can cause a spike of mercury poisoning and your body when they remove this. Speaker 2: (09:27) And that's definitely not something you want to have happen. If you have amalgam fillings, so now then I can guarantee you that we'll be shortening your life and it will be detrimental to your health. You want to get that sorted as quick as you can. I know you deserve expensive, but if there's any, which way you can make that happen, do so. There are other sources of mercury as well. Things like a compact fluorescent lights, and it's also used in some manufacturing processes. So don't buy compact fluorescent lights. So no good, no matter how good you think you are with your diet and your, you know, your, the way you live and your lifestyle chances are you've been exposed to heavy metals in some way, shape or form. And there is this booting up in your body. And we aren't made to live in this toxic soup that we have unfortunately created for ourselves. Speaker 2: (10:28) Now there's a couple of ways that you can test for heavy metal poisoning. You can get a hair tissue, mineral analysis. And I have a podcast with Gary Miler, who is someone who does this heat tissue, mineral analysis. You'll be able to listen to that later. I've had mine done. And I come back with arsenic poisoning, for example, and mercury poisoning asked Nick because I was a Goldsmith for many years and did a lot of smelting and melting of metals, which I believe is where I picked that up from. So you need to be able to, to do these tests, the other way to do it is to get a urine test. Now, if you want to detox your body from metals, and you should be thinking about this, because even if you're unaware of what's going on in your body, it's doing the damage, then you do need to be under the auspices of probably a functional doctor. Speaker 2: (11:22) You're probably not going to get my success with a normal conventional medicine, try to get in touch with a functional doctor who can analyze your heavy metal toxicity, or you can reach out to Gary Mueller and do a hair tissue, mineral analysis, to find out where you're at as well, doing a detox on your own can be dangerous because you can shift it out of your fat cells, where it's being stored and into your brain, which you really don't want to do. So you want to do it in a, in a, in a way that is controlled. Now I'm going to go through a few of the supplements that you can take that will help with the detoxification process. Again, please go and see a doctor to make sure that you do this all right. Some of these are quite safe to take regardless and would help you with your general health. Speaker 2: (12:13) Now, the first one I wanted to talk about is glutathione. Glutathione is known as the mother of all antioxidants. It's that powerful. Now this is a collating agent, meaning that its molecules can create several bonds to the metals chelating agents bind to the metals in your body. And in that debate them, they cause them to be inactive. So they can't do the dangerous things anymore. It's part of the phase two detox system that your body has. You're a body. Your body eliminates them when you have the right levels of glutathione through your urine and your bile and glutathione is one of the ones that has the ability to stop mercury from entering the cells in the, in the very first place, which is really, really important. And also just as a side note, due to science also protects fats from oxidation. It supports your mitochondria and boosts immunity and helps brain function. Speaker 2: (13:10) So it's a really, really important thing. And this declines with age, your glutathione production, recline declines with age, it also helps to recharge of the antioxidants and make them able to fight inflammation. And as a cofactor for dozens of enzymes, that neutralize free radicals. Now, as we age, our glutathione levels drop, as I said, and the risk for all the major killers go up, things like heart disease and Alzheimer's and cancers and so on. So our bodies produce our own glutathione, but it often can't keep up with the demands of this toxic soup that we're living in. And with the demands of the free radical production as we get older. So if you are loaded with heavy metals, then you should take extra glutathione. Now you can take this as an Ivy or as a supplement. And I will issue a word, a corny, a word of warning here in a minute, but what you want to do with gratifying as you want to do this and for a little while, and then have a break. Speaker 2: (14:16) But when you take it, take a break from the glue define, and the reason you don't do this all the time is that if you taking it all time, it will cause your body's own glutathione production to downregulate and you don't want to do that. So you want to have breaks every now and then from having lots of glutathione. However, the one caution I also wanted to bring out, and this is from an area called functional genomics, which I'm studying at the moment. And you will have a couple of really good episodes on the podcast list from dr. Mansoor Muhammed. And he is the number one's world's number one expert in functional genomics. And he says that when you are giving glutathione, you have to be aware of one thing. If the person that you are giving the glutathione to is one person who doesn't have the GST T 1 or the N1 genes, or if they have only one of each of those genes. Speaker 2: (15:20) Now, the GSTT1s in the GST N1's are part of your detoxification. glutathione trains for H G is T that is just the residue from somewhere, but it's the glutathione transfer res. Now this is a family of genes. You have the GSTT1 N1 and P1. However, the GST T1 and the N1 can be affected by what they call a C in V a copy number variation. And some individuals will not have inherited the normal two genes from one from your mom. One from your dad is what you usually get with all your genes. And if I didn't get two sets of genes and they only got one GST T1 gene, then they will only be producing, Oh, they have the ability to process half the amount of glutathione the same with, N1, if they only received one thing or none, then they are going to have a significantly impaired ability to process glutathione Speaker 2: (16:31) Now that means they going to have issues with detoxification. And you would think that by giving your body more glutathione, that would be a good thing, right? You want to help them get more glutathione, but this is the, it's not the glutathione production that these are genes are responsible for, but for the catalytic reaction of what it does with the glutathione you have it, I know this is a bit of a mouthful, and we will be talking about it more in the functional genomics, but there is a significant portion of the population who have the less than optimal GSTT1 And N1 genes, if you are one of these people, your ability to use glutathione and the catalytic reaction is reduced. Now you can benefit from so having some group of firearm by way of supplements, but not too much in an Ivy is liable to be too much. Speaker 2: (17:32) In this case. It is also dependent on your phase one detox genes, and again, more about that in the functional genomic sector. So before you go out and get glutathione, I V it would be who've intelligence to actually get a functional genomic test, which we will be talking about later in the section and which I am studying currently to be qualified, to be able to read those. So I will hopefully hit, be able to offer you that service later on. So it's really important to know some of our genes so that we know how we are going to react to certain supplements or to medications or what predispositions we have, but, but we will get onto that later. So back now to the heavy metals. So we've just covered off the glue to sign as being a great supplement and a great Ivy for supporting the body with that caveat that you get your genes checked to see what your GSTT1 AND N1 genes are doing. Speaker 2: (18:37) Now, we're going to move on to alpha lipoic acid. Now, this is an antioxidant that can cross the blood brain barrier to protect neurons from heavy metal poisoning. It also regenerates glutathione. As we mentioned before, both inside and outside of the cells increasing glutathione levels in the body. It also helps your mitochondria, those little battery cells or power that create the energy in the cell that I talked about before perform better. So alpha lipoic acid is a very good and safe supplements we taking to help you detoxify and support that process up to 1800 milligrams is considered a safe dose of alpha lipoic acid. So that's really something that you could go and grab right now. Vitamin C is also a crucial antioxidant and should be part of your regular regime. Low levels of vitamin C mean also low levels of glutathione on the body and more oxidative stress. Speaker 2: (19:42) So vitamin C can also specifically help you detox from lead a toxicity. There is with glue to fly on, give your body a break some days from vitamin C and especially for all the athletes out there do not take vitamin C after a high intensity workouts or hard workout is the workout itself causes oxidative stress. That is good for you because that's what you're doing. You wanted to cause the stress to make the body respond by making your muscles stronger. Your team's stronger. You are your cardiovascular system stronger. Now, if you have vitamin C straight after a high intensity workout, you're going to be undoing all of that oxidative stress. So that's, it's not a good combination within 12 hours after a hit. So that's just as a little tip as an extra benefit, really. Have you bought them and see a way from your workouts and give yourself the right to renowned need from taking regular vitamin C. Speaker 2: (20:48) If you take it straight after a hit workout, it will interfere with the signals for your muscles to grow and get stronger. So that would be counter productive to your training. Okay. Now over to zinc, good zinc levels prevent your body from taking on lead and cabinet cadmium. And zinc has a very important, as well as an immune regulator. And many, many Kiwis are deficient in zinc. I don't have the statistics, but I have read studies before that there's a huge deficiency in the population for sync. So if you don't want to have lead and cadmium poisoning start adding some zinc to your regime, it's also really good as an immune regulator, as I said, the next one I wanted to talk to you about is activated charcoal. Now you may have come across this. When you were in third world countries, it's very readily available in those places because it helps with gastrointestinal bags that you get. Speaker 2: (21:49) And, you know, places like Bali and the POL and feeble countries where you're able to eat something, that's got some horrible bacteria on it, and you take activated charcoal to bind to those horrible things and get it out of your system. Right. But what you might not know is that it's also very, very good at detoxifying the body. Sorry. So it's very, very good at detoxifying the body. And it's a really good thing to take on a regular regular basis. So activated charcoal, what you need to be aware of where you're taking this is that you take it away from other supplements because it will detract from other supplements medication. And you like, for example, you don't want to be taking it next to taking your, sorry, I've just had a message coming up up here and I have to get rid of it. Speaker 2: (22:58) That's interfering with my notes here. So activated charcoal, you don't want to be taking it next to say your antidepressants, because it will lead to you passing that out without having it's been official response and the same with supplements. Another thing that's important too, to understand with, with Choco is that you want a very fine grade of charcoal, so that it's been ground up to a really fine, fine level. So then it has a bigger surface area in which to bind to the metals. So activated charcoal has a strong negative charge, and it binds to chemicals whose molecules have a positive charge, but once it attaches to them, you can pass them out through your store. You can then scrape them out from your body before they do any harm. When you eat food containing lead, cadmium copper, copper, Nickel activated charcoal, bind up these toxic metals before they get into cells. Speaker 2: (24:04) So doing this as a really good anti aging and longevity intervention, which is a low risk thing to be doing, you can have this two to three times a day. If you want all in it, the stomach away from other foods, it has also been shown in heart disease patients to lower the cholesterol levels and to improve your HDL to LDL cholesterol levels, your ratio. So really, really important. The next one that I wanted to talk to you about, and we're nearly there on this section is chlorella Corella. I have done a podcast on with Catherine Arnston who is the CEO and founder of energy bits, and she has spirulina and chlorella, and she has a hell of a lot of research about how amazing chlorella is. But one of the things that the chlorella LG does is it binds very well to mercury and the gap. Speaker 2: (25:02) So when you are eating fish, a really simple tip is to have some chlorella tablets when you are eating the fish, and that will negate will stop the mercury being taken up into the cells and help you pass that out. So Corella is a really good detox medication. I take it every night before I go to bed and it helps detox my body in general, but especially for, for for MITRE and for other heavy metals, I want to stop eating fish and fish has got a lot of good for us. And you can see find that podcast. It's number one 39 on my pushing the limits podcasts. And you'll have a list of those below in this, in this course as well. Now, the very last one that I wanted to cover off is digestive fibers also help us to remove toxins. Speaker 2: (25:54) Now I'm talking about here, the soluble kind of fiber, not the insoluble. Now the soluble kind of fiber helps feed the bacteria in your gut, which is a good thing. You want to keep those good bacteria well feed. Now there is a pro product called modified city trust pick done, and this is a very, very powerful, great NTI aging supplement for you to take it's good at removing lead and cadmium arsenic, and salium they did one study that with 15 minutes grams, a day of modified citrus pectin for five days lead to test subjects to he'll be made. It was out through the urine much, much higher quantities. For example, as snack, leaving the bar 130% more, and me I'm at 150% modified citrus pectin also reduces cancer's ability to spread in the body, which is another very, very good reason to try and try this low risk supplement and get this good fiber. Speaker 2: (26:58) And so a low dose of that would be about five grams a day for several months. And a high dose for an adult would be 15 grams per day for a year, which is considered a high dose for children. You only want to do this intermittently because it does reduce galectin three. And that's something that children need a lot of, but that's going beyond the scope of this. Okay. So that's it for metal poisoning today. I hope you've learned a lot. You probably want to relisten to this a few times to get it in your brain, and maybe you want to go and try just one or two of those detoxing supplements out some of the low risk ones like your Corolla, your vitamin C a no brainer. Some of the other ones, EDTA is also one that I forgot to mention, and also very powerful as an IV, or is rectally. Speaker 2: (27:51) Or you can take it as supplements and this will also help detoxify your body, but with EDTA, with gratify on infusions you want to be a under the auspices of a, of a functional doctor to do this, and you need to do that to get your testing done. And you also want to just be a little bit careful when it comes to just detoxing flat stick. Because again, it's something that you want to do slowly and controlled because you don't want the heavy metal toxins to be pulled out of the fat and then deposit somewhere else or in the brain, which would be catastrophic. So you want to do that in, in a, in a bit of a controlled form. So I hope that's helped today and we look forward to the next session with you and we'll see you again. Soon Speaker 1: (28:37) That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at lisatamati.com.

Andrea and Lisa share their health journeys and the challenges along the way. For Lisa, there are still ongoing health challenges which she is working on solving. No matter what your journey to healthy living, we think you will enjoy this candid conversation with the hosts of Naturally Savvy Radio.

This week we have an interview of Lisa and Simon for the Nourish Life podcast. Lisa was unable to record her usual show as her beloved Father passed away.  From this podcast, Simon and Lisa talks Mental Toughness, Resilience & Overcoming any challenge. Lisa got a chance to share her incredible story about her mother and how to never giving up on someone when the odds are stacked against them.   You can listen / subscribe to Simon's podcast and more of him below: ✩ Podcast https://www.simonhall.global/podcast/ ✩ Website - https://www.simonhall.global/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/pag... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"   Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**  

In this interview Lisa and Dr Wayne delve deep into  what Prolotherapy is and how it can be used with joint, tendon and ligament problems, what Prolozone is, what Ozone therapy is,  it's mechanisms of actions and much more.   With nearly 30 years experience Dr McCarthy has used these therapies on thousands of patients and teachers other doctors and medical specialists in these therapies.  You can find out more at https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/   Prolotherapy & Prolozone therapy Prolotherapy is a non-invasive, cost-effective solution to many problems associated with the wear and tear of joints and back problems.    Especially effective with knee and shoulder damage and lower back issues. An injection of dextrose and lidocaine are used to perform prolotherapy.  The injection is given into damaged tissue (ligaments and tendons) which causes it to inflame and then heal.  In the healing process more strength is added to bony connections.   Ligaments hold joints firmly so they move in correct alignment.  Tendons attach muscles to bones. Tearing of ligaments and tendons off bones causes sloppy joint movement and pain. Prolozone involves injecting ozone into the painful or inflamed areas, similar to prolotherapy. Once repaired non-surgically with prolotherapy, muscles can then strengthen around the joint.  Once the joint is strong, it remains so unless another accidental injury occurs. Prolotherapy increases circulation and nutrients that help tissue repair itself.  This collagen strengthening technique can be used for all joint injuries, old or new.   Ozone Therapy  What might it do for you? Essentially ozone restores oxygen saturation to the body's tissues. With any form of illness the oxygen levels drop and if they get depressed 40% below normal cancer is encouraged to grow. Low oxygen signals fatigue, usually becoming chronic. The oxidative (Life Force) power of the body is reduced and metabolism goes down to a less efficient level. Conversely, when the oxygen saturation is returned to normal there is a strong chance of recovery of normal physiological function i.e.: A return to better health. Ozone therapy is unsurpassed as a method of oxygenation and is a cousin of hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Six treatments are required to receive the ozone effect and as metabolism improves vastly resulting benefits are very long lasting.   Using the body's own inherent self-healing properties to regenerate tissue in the body. Ancient systems of medicine such as acupuncture and manipulative medicine have tapped into this capability to varying degrees by enhancing blood flow, nerve conduction and oxygenation to areas that need to be healed. As our understanding of the body's own mechanisms for healing has matured, we have developed new techniques with a more robust healing potential. In the field of Musculoskeletal Medicine, Prolotherapy, using a concentrated Dextrose (corn sugar) solution injected at the area requiring regeneration, can initiate the healing response. The first phase of healing is inflammation, where the blood flow to the area is increased bringing white blood cells to clean up the area and platelets with growth factors to stimulate stem cells to regenerate tissue. The next evolution of Prolotherapy involves isolating the growth factors found in platelets and white blood cells in the blood and injecting them directly into the area to be healed. This is called Platelet Rich Plasma. Platelet Rich Plasma can be used to stimulate regeneration of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and cartilage, and it can also be used for a variety of aesthetic conditions like hair regrowth, facial regeneration and scars. Dr.Wayne McCarthy N.D. is a Naturopathic Physician. Wayne's background is as a practicing Naturopath in New Zealand until moving to the U.S.A in 1989, where he furthered his education and training by going to a private medical school in Oregon called National College of Naturopathic Medicine. After graduation Wayne was licensed as a primary care physician in Hawaii where he practiced for 15 years. Wayne is registered with NZNMA, and certified by Natural Health Practitioners of New Zealand in Naturopathy, Nutrition and Herbal Medicine. Email Wayne, Waipu Clinic: 09 432 1325 Websites https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/ and https://nehc.co.nz/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Today, I have the wonderful Dr Wayne McCarthy, who is a Naturopathic physician primary care physician up in Whangarei in New Zealand and works at the Waipu health center. He is a specialist once again, in ozone therapy. We've done a couple of episodes on ozone, but Dr. Mccarthy uses ozone in a couple of different ways, as well as the standard practices. And he shares today a little bit about Prolozone. He also talks about prolotherapy, which is all about fixing a joint and ligament and tendon damage. So if you're struggling with an injury that you can't fix, you want to tune into this episode. We also talk about his approach to natural health and how long he's been doing ozone therapy, all the things that he's studied around the world. So a really great episode, especially off the back of last week with dr. Speaker 2: (01:10) Tim Ewer, who I head on another integrative medical specialists. And you know, I think between the two of them, these two doctors both in New Zealand are absolutely fantastic people to be listening to and finding out about more. So I hope you enjoy this interview with dr. Wayne McCarthy. Who's given up a Sunday morning to do this with us. So I was very, very lucky. Before we hit over to dr. Wayne just want to remind you, my book relentless is now out and available. It's available in bookstores throughout New Zealand. It's also available internationally on Amazon, on audio books or the audio book platforms as a Kindle, as an ebook, pretty much you name it, it's out there. You can find it on my website at lisatamati.com. Also. It's yeah, it's been out there for a few weeks and now that we were at a COVID, if you want to just pop into your local bookstore or store, if you're in New Zealand, you can do that. Speaker 2: (02:04) And just a reminder, too, that every couple of weeks we're holding a live webinar about epigenetics health program. This is all about utilizing your genes and understanding your genes and how to optimize your genes for your, for your optimum health, from nutrition, right through to your social environment, your work environment. This is absolutely powerful wellness program that we're using in the corporate setting. It's also very good for individuals, for athletes wanting optimum performance, as it covers off every area from your nutrition, your exercise, right through to your how your brain works, your dominant hormones and neurotransmitters, your it's, everything, everything is covered covered on this. It's a really a amazing program that we're delighted to be able to deliver your, you you can join us for that live webinar, which we're holding pretty much every second week the moment you can find out when the next one is at epigenetics.lisatamati.com. Okay. EPIGENETICS.Lisatamati.com if you want to find out anymore. Speaker 2: (03:12) Let me know. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review because that really helps the show get exposure. And on that point, I just want to thank you all for those who have listened to have done ratings or have done reviews, because we're now ranked as one of the top 200 podcasts globally for in the health and fitness genre. So I'm really, really appreciative. It's a combination of five years of hard work, and we're really, really stoked to be in that top 200. So thank you to everyone who has done a rating and review or share this with your friends and made that happen. Now over to the show with Dr. Wayne McCarthy. Speaker 3: (03:54) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with a lovely day, Dr. Wayne McCarthy, who is sitting up near Whangarei who is the a founder of the Waipu natural health, and also is a doctorate, the natural environmental health clinic. Welcome to the show dr. Wayne. Speaker 4: (04:19) Good morning, Lisa. Nice to be here with you. Speaker 3: (04:22) It's fantastic. I've Sunday morning, no less cutting into your family time. So I really, really appreciate you coming on the show today, but we had a fantastic discussion yesterday. So I've been really, really excited to talk to dr. Wayne today and to share some of his insights and some of the work that he's doing in his clinics. Dr. Wayne, Can you give us a little bit of a background on, on who you are and what you do? Speaker 4: (04:49) I'm in New Zealand, I started life as a natural path osteopath. I went to Speaker 3: (04:58) The Speaker 4: (04:59) Natural therapies college in Ellis Lee, and then after five years in practice, I went to America and got an opportunity to go to national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon, where I trained and studied and also taught. And then I got licensed as a naturopathic doctor in state of Hawaii where I practiced for 15 years. Wow. so in America we call primary care doctors, but we're working as a GP would work here in New Zealand. Speaker 3: (05:35) hmm. Speaker 4: (05:36) During that study at a national college of naturopathic medicine. I met James Hutton who was a year ahead of me as a student, but he was the understudy of dr. William Tesco. Now William Tesco was a naturopathic medical doctor. One of the first doctors to come to America from Germany. He was an ozone doctor. He wrote the first papers on bio oxidation. And I think of bio oxidation as the life force, if you want to sort of give it a lay term. And he was the understudy of Dr. Tesco. So he was telling me about ozone while I was at medical school. And then when I graduated, he taught me how to do ozone therapy. From that time forward, ozone therapy became my main therapy and I just, it's what I do with every person I treat. And that's how I got the name, dr. Ozone back then, 25 years later, I got an opportunity to go and train with in Russia. Speaker 4: (06:39) Initially Novgorod 500 K's East of Moscow with professor oly and professor Claudia of consortia Kovar, the mother and father of those own therapy and Russia. Now, the important thing about Russia is that they've been using ozone for decades in their hospital system, across all their medical specialties, oncology, gynecology, obstetrics, neurology, dermatology, pain, medicine, burns, and many other areas, neurology. So they've had the, they've done the most research of any country in the, in the world. And I trained with them for two weeks. It was one on one and I had a, a Russian lady Eugenia, Shasta Kober. Who's my interpreter. And I'm still in touch with her. We communicate regularly. She sends me information on Russian research. I collaborate with then two years ago, I went and trained with dr. Adriana Schwarz in Honduras, but she also works out in Madrid. She's the president of the international medical ozone Federation and the secretary for the international scientific committee on ozone therapy of which I'm a member. And our mandate is to improve and update the Madrid declaration, which is the world standard on how to use ozone medically. Speaker 3: (08:12) Fantastic. Okay. So ozone therapy my listeners have heard a little bit about ozone therapy at all, but you are, you know, dr. Ozone, as you say, in New Zealand, you've been practicing this for over 30 years. Speaker 4: (08:27) I've been practicing for 27 years since 1993 Speaker 3: (08:33) In the law. I want to go into some of the therapies that you use and what's actually happening with the ozone. Like I know that you said to me yesterday, you're trying to get it into the mainstream and New Zealand. How, how has that looking Speaker 4: (08:48) It's already starting to happen because we have GPS around the country starting to pick up train with us and use ozone therapy because I'm, I'm in Amer the Australasian integrated medicines association. And basically these are like-minded doctors, GPS mostly, but there are natural paths in there as well. So we're really having to greater the medical and the naturopathic through this association. And there's a lot of holistic medical doctors. And so this is sort of my clan. And if you will pick up my only naturopathic doctor in New Zealand, there might be some others, but really, I think I'm the only one just by the mere fact that nobody else has gone and trained in America where I did. Yep, exactly. Okay. So this is great because it means ozone. It is it's hopefully going to be accepted into the mainstream soon because in 12 countries where ozone has been regularized, and we believe we have all the documentation to go to our ministry of health and say, here's a new therapy. Speaker 4: (10:00) We want you to regulate it. They would look at all the work we've done and they'd go, well, you haven't left much for us to do this already. Self-Regulated, you've done a really good job. We know, yeah, you've really done the race. Now we can start to train other people. So I've trained two natural cats that now work with me. But they've upgraded to be ozone experts. All the ozone therapies are done intravenously or by injection. So it's always needles, but it's a feel good therapy. It leaves people with an overwhelming sense of wellbeing. And the primary function of it is to saturate the body with oxygen. This will do several things. It will improve athletic performance by giving the athlete the five to 8% endurance advantage, which means that it prolongs the time of maximum anaerobic output before you hit the wall and I've worked with triathletes and the iron man in Hawaii, and I've worked with many other athletes would chop those canoeists Walker, armor, paddlers people who are doing tennis, some of our out Ines players and New Zealand and swimmers. Speaker 4: (11:29) And of course you work with every form of illness that comes our way. We do see quite a few people that have various forms of cancers and the primary cause of cancer, doctor Otto Warburg won two Nobel prizes. And he proved that the primary cause of cancer is a lack of oxygen. The tissues, wow. Though, the respiratory enzymes have been toxified and therefore the body cannot process oxygen. So what we do is we saturate the body with oxygen, removing the prime cause of all cancers. So that's all I really want to say about that. That's the rationale we don't, we don't actually treat diseases. You support health. We treat people when we treat people and we're just pushing them toward greater health by restoring their bio oxidate of capacity in the body. As you know, the main cause of a lot of underlying the underlying cause of most chronic diseases is a chronic inflammation, which is free radical damage, ozone reverses, free, radical damage. Speaker 4: (12:51) Wow. So that's the key point of it. And it also, so it's oxygen is three and it's we talked briefly yesterday about it being a relation of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is also increasing the amount of oxygen getting to tissues. That's right. So hyperbaric oxygen, H202, which is hydrogen peroxide, vitamin C therapy, high dose intravenous and ozone therapy, intravenous they're all in a family called bio oxidate of therapies and hyperbaric oxygen. We use it it, that is better for central nervous system injuries, brain damaged spinal cord ozone is better on infection and improving circulation. So they have some overlap. I've chosen to do exclusively ozone therapy for the fact that it's cheaper to administer. It's a lot more readily available and it's a lot more versatile because I can treat the blood with it, but I can also inject it into joints or I can inject it into pain and pain is shortage of oxygen in the body. Speaker 4: (14:10) What we've learned as ozone therapists, where we inject those own pain will go really. So I can just sort of go into a little bit of that on the sports or athletics side, I feel like we'll sort of go, well, I'll start with the ozone therapy. So where does pain in the muscles? We can inject those zone and saturate those tissues with oxygen that will remove the lactic acid. And the athletes will have a faster recovery from their training and we saturate the blood and the body so that the is processing oxygen much more efficiently, which gives us a higher prolong, physical energy output during sports, the international Olympic committee. I have read their documentation on blood doping and, and how we can't cheat. You know, we're not, we're not supposed to cheat. So their ruling basically is ozone could be used for a medical purpose with an athlete during times when they're training. Speaker 4: (15:24) Yes, that's legal to treat an athlete, just cry to a competition would be considered cheating a bit. Not that you could really pick it up, cause I don't think it's terrible in the body. However, they could see that the the saturation of oxygen and their blood would be very high. It would be a bit like a altitude training. Yes. Blood doping or altitude training. It has a very similar effect, which is athletes could do ozone therapy and their training periods to recover from training. But we just wouldn't do it within sort of three or four days before an athletic event. And no one can hear enough. Okay. So how does it increase? Like what is the mechanism by which it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells. Now I understand from the Realogy, Oh, the red blood cell increases the, what would you call it? The pivot, the flexibility of, of the red blood cell is that correct? Speaker 4: (16:33) Makes the red cells more pliable, more slippery, more flexible. So they can squeeze through the small cappelary and get to even the hardest to reach tissues. So if you've got damaged or inflamed tissues yeah, that's right. Any kind of injury where you've got inflammation, swelling, pain. Mmm. We save limbs from amputation with those own. Wow. Because we restore a good blood flow. Also the red cell, we increase a enzyme on the red cell called two, three di phospho glycerides two to three DPG. We call it what that does is it weakens the bond between hemoglobin and oxygen. What this means is blood flowing through the lungs will still pick up at school compliment of oxygen, but it will release it to the tissues a lot more easily. It's like a, it's like a wind that's blowing into the tissues rather than having to pull the oxygen off the red cell with osmosis, trying to use energy to tug it off. Speaker 4: (17:48) The blood's just good sort of way more freely. And in this way we saturate the body with oxygen. I believe it's the only way of doing it. Unless you have a hyperbaric chamber and this would be a really powerful combination I can see. So it's, it's pushing, it's basically pushing the oxygen into the tissues as opposed to it having to be pulled. Now, like as someone like that, I'm an athlete. Mmm. I've had problems constantly with anemia and not enough red blood cells. Mmm. And getting enough oxygen carrying capacity to work the muscles. Does it help with that? Or is that, it's just that that's an independent thing because number of blood cells, no, I'll speak to that issue, Lisa, because we see people that are me anemic often kicks, you know, they're wasting away. Yep. They've got bone marrow suppression, not producing enough red cells or white cells or just whatever it might be. Speaker 4: (18:46) But when we treat with the, when we treat the blood where those zone, where rejuvenating the bone marrow. Wow. And so the bone marrow starts to produce, what's called super gifted red cells. And that's actually the scientific term, super gifted. So real knife gifted, dr. Bilio Bachi Theo CCI. He wrote the book ozone, a new medical drug. And I work with dr. Adriana Schwarz, who was Dr. Bachi Sort of Lieutenant right hand person, you know, his protege really. And she's now leading the charge around the world, promoting ozone therapy, God gives excellent courses. Where was I going with this? You were talking about the Realogy and the, the, the really bad cells, the red blood cells coming out of the bone marrow are called super gifted, which means they're more resistant to oxidative stress and they're better at delivering oxygen around the body. Speaker 4: (19:53) So even when we've stopped and ozone, even though we've done a course of, let's say six to eight ozone therapies, let's say we're treating a person for a condition after six to eight ozone therapies. We've usually established a healthy bone marrow production of red cells overcome anemia. Wow. And the person is starting to feel a lot more energetic and the overnights will last for six months in the body. So they just have to realize ozone is a very reactive molecule. So when we're treating blood, the ozone has reacted with the red cell within nanoseconds, it's gone, it's undetectable and it becomes a nose annoyed. It becomes a nose denied, which is a weaker form of ozone. Or we have a it's more durable and they last six months, wow. Are there for after we finished the course of those own therapy, the patient basically to put it sort of bluntly gets their money's worth during the six to eight treatments. Cause they feel great. And their blood work's usually improving. However, over the next six months, they will be continued improvements even though we've stopped the treatment because the theology of the body has improved. We've blown all the cobwebs out of the bio oxidate of pathways or the hundreds of enzymatic pathways in the body, such that the biochemistry is now working perfectly or optimally. And remember oxygen is the primary, primary nutrients for optimum health. Absolutely. Speaker 4: (21:42) It's used at every step of every chemical reaction in the body. And we see that the underlying reason for chronic illness is the body is not processing oxygen. Speaker 3: (21:56) It's just what you see. And this isn't, Oh, well, I'll just take a big, deep breath of air. And then there I go, I've got my oxygen back. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Isn't it? Speaker 4: (22:06) No, not really. I'd say that people breathe easier. They feel normal again, and they've recovered a healthy metabolism. Speaker 3: (22:14) But when I say like we don't take my SPO two sets here at senior level, I'm at 98, 99%. So I'm like, Oh, well my oxygen's okay. I don't need extra oxygen support, but I know with like with hyperbaric, I can get a heck of a lot more like up to 12 times the amount of oxygen and the right and the right. Speaker 4: (22:37) Yeah. So what's happening there. Lisa is, you're measuring the SPO2 of the blood. You're measuring the oxygen saturation of the red cells and the blood. And they may be 98 or 99%. However, when we treat somebody we'll often see that 98 or 99% straight after the treatment has dropped down to 95 or 93%, where's all the oxygen gone. We've just poured it into the blood. Where's it gone? Speaker 4: (23:11) Well, it's absorbed into the tissues of the body that were desperate for it. And that were low in oxygen. And it's this way that we saturate then very quickly that oxygen level return back up to 99. We know the course of ozone treatment is complete. When a patient comes in they're 98 or 99%, we treat them and the blood is still 98 or 99 cent. It didn't drop. Therefore that tells us the body is saturated. Blood is saturated. They now have what we call the effect and they will stay self saturated at a very optimal level for a very long time. Speaker 3: (23:53) Wow. So if, if I want to, you know, like I'm definitely coming to see you, doc, Dwayne, I'm going to bring my mum. Then we're going to get some treatments as soon as I can get up to away. It's a long way away. But w H w over what period of time would, would, it would a person who's traveling to see you? How many, like the six to eight is required? How many do they need sort of back the team they get back to back. Speaker 4: (24:19) So over a period, what we do, people that come from South Ireland or Australia or Singapore or overseas, we get people from everywhere. We ask them to come and stay in the Waipu area, and then we'll treat them nearly every day for about a week. Wow. Okay, great. Yup. And we see a lot of chronic conditions where everything else basically is filed. And so therefore we treat people every day. We start with a very low dose of ozone because we're working in millions of a gram. We work between zero and 80 micrograms, which is zero to 80 millions of a gram of Bozon middle of, of oxygen ozone and the syringe. So we're working with micro dosages, but we've got equipment that we can dial up. Yep. 1000000Th of a gram. Speaker 3: (25:15) Yup. Speaker 4: (25:16) And so we can do one or two or three or up to 80. So we start with very low concentrations. And over the course of the treatment, we build it up to a maximum. So we might go up to maximum for us would be 80 micrograms. And then we drop it off again, the last several treatments back down to about 20 micrograms. So we vary the concentration and the dose in this way, we will, we will be constantly building up the antioxidant capacity or the antioxidant reserve capacity in the body so that that body can now tolerate a higher level of ozone. And so we can build the dose up like that. And that's how we, that's how we pull people up very quickly because we keep increasing their antioxidant capacity. As we increase the dose of those zones, then we drop down at the end, but we leave them with a seriously improved antioxidant capacity, which means we leave them with a permanent or very longterm ability to overcome chronic oxidative stress and or free radical damage. Speaker 3: (26:26) Okay. So then, then if you wanted to stick, say other oxidative therapies or vitamin C infusions or other things that would have more of an effect, or even even supplementation with antioxidants or good food would have a better effect on the body. Speaker 4: (26:40) So we do do that at Northland environmental health Center where I work with Damien Wojciech and we do high dose vitamin C therapy there, he goes up to 200 grams. Wow. And he does culation therapy and high dose vitamin C therapy as well as being a general practitioner. So collation therapy, some patients come in and they have, you know, vitamin C one day ozone the next vitamin C ozone like that. Wow. Yup. Yup. That's a very good protocol. Fantastic. And he does collation therapy, which is heavy metal detox thing. So I'm hoping I can get him on the podcast as well. That would be fabulous. He's a, that's an area that I think a lot of us need to understand as well. The heavy metal detoxing. Yeah. Dr. Wayne. I wanted to pivot a little bit and go into prolotherapy. We discussed prolotherapy and I was really excited to hear about this yesterday. Speaker 4: (27:42) There's something I haven't really being aware of. Can you explain what prolotherapy is? Okay. So we're leaving ozone therapy. Now ozone is for general health improved performance of our bodies. And just before we do leave ozone, go back to it a little bit, but we leave the topic and we're going to prolotherapy, which is proliferance therapy. This is now musculoskeletal. We look, we're talking now about injuries, physical injuries to the joints. Fabulous. What were you gonna say? I was just going to say with the ozone, cause we, we haven't touched on the, the they at home remedies, but we have talked about them in the past. I'd like to address this issue because it's an important one. Two years ago, we formed the ozone therapy association of New Zealand and we're taking applications now. And mostly for doctors we have some nurses, some natural paths. Speaker 4: (28:53) But we've also opened it up because we know that there's a lot of people in New Zealand who are practicing those own using what we call lay methods. You use that term it's respectfully used and they're doing all kinds of variations. There can be insufflation of the colon, vaginal insufflation air, insufflation cupping, limb bagging, whole body bagging. There's the hocket, which is the ozone steam sauna. Hmm. Which is actually a very good treatment. And ozone can be used in facial treatments and for beauty therapy with beauty therapists. So what we're looking to do is to regularize the practice of ozone and New Zealand so that these can all have access to a professional body, guide them on safe and effective methods to use at whatever level they're trained. We're inclusive, include everyone that's doing ozone. So that patients, athletes, the interested people who want those zone, I can get it throughout New Zealand, just depending on what their needs might be. Speaker 4: (30:09) So quite often what will happen is people will come to us. We'll do the intravenous methods. And then where do you live? Right. You're in Palmerston North. Okay. So let's see, who do we have in Palmerston North? Well, we have people using cockpit, which is the ozone steam cabinet, and we have people doing installations. And so on where the ozone gas is put either into the rectum or the colon very simple, safe, easy to use method or vaginally or other topical way, or you should make ozone oil for rubbing on the skin for dermatological conditions. You can make those, the naked water. You can breathe it. Yep. We also use ozone generators that we get from Kim sex and violence. Speaker 4: (30:57) She provides really nice equipment that we can use for ozonating the clinic meeting, any building remove smells or toxic odors and that sort of thing. And so when we were gearing up for the recent epidemic, yes, we were. Ozonating our doctors and nurses and our staff. I was receiving intravenous vitamin C. This is for our protection. And the clinics were being ozonated every morning at 3:00 AM automatically. Yep. With Kim's can Sexton's machines. Fantastic. And therefore we knew we were coming into a sanitized environment and then we treated one suspect that COVID patient. And then we saturated that room with those own immediately afterwards, it was off clinic. It was outside in the carport, the old sauna room. And so we knew that room was now sanitized. So if we had another COVID patient, we'd be able to go into that room, be sanitized. We were safe wearing our PPE, but we can deliver the treatment. Speaker 4: (32:03) Fantastic. And we will get up for that. So, and this has been like, just to briefly touch on the Corona situation. There is now proven studies coming out of Spain. The ozone is affecting the client of ours. Yes. There have been clinical trials in China and Spain and the conclusion at the moment. It hasn't all been gone into print yet. I don't think we ever, because we're working with doc date around and Schwartz, she was on the front lines and Spain treating COVID and the reports coming back, or that ozone was effective phenomenally. And what that meant was patients were recovering within 24 to 48 hours after one to two ozone treatments, they were fully recovering. And I think 98% of the patients that were in serious enough conditions that they were going to be put on ventilators. 98% of them did not need to have ventilation. Speaker 4: (33:06) Wow. Which is a good thing because nine out of 10 people who get ventilated die. Yeah. It's not really an effective therapy for COVID, but ozone proved to be very effective. We know this because we've been treating all viral conditions since since day one, really a hundred years with it's a hundred years with research and ozone. Now I have to say, it's not the only thing that will do that. High dose vitamin C will do that. I've heard an India homeopathy was very effective. And if you read the journal of the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, I don't know if you know of that, but the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, there's lots of articles in there on other useful natural therapies. And they all work pretty good. So actually there's a plethora of effective treatments that we can use against this horrible thing. That's why we weren't afraid to treat people because we knew we were safe. Speaker 3: (34:13) Yup. Yup. And I had dr. Rob dr. Rowan on last week and it's talking about Ebola and his getting shut down, unfortunately. But Speaker 4: (34:26) That's right. He went to him and Howard Robbins stopped. The Rowans went to Sierra Leoni and they were invited there by the minister of health. They treated doctors that had got Ebola. Some of them opted for the ozone, all the ones that are all the ones that said yes to ozone therapy, survive all the ones that denied it and said, no, I don't want it. They all died. Speaker 3: (34:53) And then he was shut down. Unfortunately, Speaker 4: (34:55) When he got shot down, you can't be using effective therapy. Speaker 3: (34:58) No, it might mitigate the drug sales. We can't have that comment. Right. Moving right along. Let's talk about therapies, prolotherapy. Cause this is a very, Speaker 4: (35:14) Yeah. Sorry. I don't want to confuse everyone. So everyone on the side. Yup. We're on a different topic. We're now looking at joint pain. I'm very excited about Prolotherapy because it will effectively treat all musculoskeletal injuries. It will, it is an effective treatment for all sporting injuries. And it's permanent. This is amazing when you've done product therapy, you'll no longer have knee pain, back pain. Retruding disc pain, low back pain, ankle, elbow, rotator cuff, you know, anything like that, anything where the ligaments tendons are involved in the is involved. That's right. So let's just talk about knees. Cause we see a lot of those. So what we do is somebody comes in, they've had a knee injury, the body is healed, but the injury doesn't go away. It keeps flaring up when we strain that joint. And it's because the ligaments and all the tendons or the cartilage have thinned, you know, if you could imagine stretching a thick, rubber band over a rock and then just tapping it with something sharp or happen, then that rubber will just split. Speaker 4: (36:36) It'll still be in tech, but not as strong. Think of your ligaments like that. Now you've got a little bit of a slop in the joint and that's what causes pain. And it's what grinds away the cartilage. So what we can do now is we can do prolotherapy, which is proliferant therapy. And we inject a thick solution of dextrose. So it's a sugar, but it's hypertonic, which means it's extra thick, especially compared to the body fluids. So when we inject that into a ligament, it will stimulate the fibroblasts to create more ligament. Yep. What that means is we thicken and then shorten and tighten that ligament that returns the joint back into its normal alignment. Cause that's what the ligaments do. They hold the joints in the alignment for the movement that joint has to me. Yep. And so we had this week or Lex ligaments, they've stretched, they've torn off the bone partially and it's always easy to find. Speaker 4: (37:47) You can just poke on them. They do it. And people jump you inject bet spot. And what will happen is new ligament will grow over a three week period and return 50 to 80% of the strength. Wow. Then we need to repeat it a month later. Again, you'll get 50 to 80% improvement. So after generally two or three treatments, we've got a hundred percent improvement. Wow. At that point it's permanent and you'd no longer have that injury. You no longer have a weakness there. Your mind can let go of the doubt of your ability to use that learning in a maximum athletic, competitive sort of attitude. So you get your confidence back and your athletic performance is not hindered by chronic injuries. And so we treat a lot of athletes and we keep the top people in the game and young, young athletes sometimes in their teens, cause we work with some calm, competitive swimmers and they, you know, they pushing their bodies to the max, pushing the limits. As you say, they get these tears. Now that would, that would slow the down their training. And of course, if you have a week off training, it takes three weeks to get back to where you were, where you had the injury. So you lose five or six weeks really out of your, out of your schedule with product therapy, we can keep those athletes performing without pain. And this is something so simple as, as dextrose. Speaker 3: (39:30) This is so is this like reconstructive therapy? I had a, Speaker 4: (39:34) Yeah, yeah. It's called injection reconstruction therapy. Cause I had a, Speaker 3: (39:41) A boyfriend back in my early twenties who had a very bad ankle injury and he had to go to America for, we construct a therapy. It was called Speaker 4: (39:50) Yes. Will be injection reconstruction therapy probably mean it is an American technique. Yep, yep. I did learn it there. Yup. Speaker 3: (40:00) And the body's own reaction and info. This is where information is so interesting. Isn't it? Because inflammation, when we, when we cause an injury to the site we've deliberately actually causing and introducing something that's gonna irritate and cause injury. And it sends the body's a body starts to send fiber blast to actually make it stronger. So we're using a game just like with the ozone and with hyperbaric, we're using the body's own resources at the end of this. Right. Speaker 4: (40:27) Which is where natural path. So we're, we're always working with the body's own natural healing abilities. And with those own and product therapy, we feel like we can get maximum advantage there. Yup. So we also get a lot of patients often in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, even eighties and nineties who have health conditions and the generative joints it's often called osteoarthritis, which I believe most people think if they're told they have osteoarthritis, they get this idea in their mind that it's something to do with their bones. Yes. Is that your take on that? Yeah. I would say it's inflammation. Speaker 4: (41:19) Yeah. Most people would say it's bones. They think it's bones and we think we're bones as well. It's my bones, they're old and they're down and so on and nothing really too much you can do for bones. Well, we, we don't take that point of view. We see osteoarthritis as joint inflammation, so it'll always be the soft tissue, the ligaments, the cartilage and the tin. And we can repair all of those now. Yeah. So by injecting product therapy into a knee joint, for example, we can reconstitute the cartilage. And so we take people with bone on bone. Wow. And we can, we can thicken that Cartlidge enough that it takes the pain away and on x-ray we'll see an increase in the lower back, you know, like a lot of us, me included, I've got like four different set of basically go on by nonbinary, very close to being bone on bone. Speaker 4: (42:17) Okay. So I'll come at this from two angles. Number one, where you've got a bulging disc, the surgeons have told us, and we've known this since the 1950s, is that the ligaments on the posterior aspect of the vertebra or the vertebrae, you mind those posterial ligaments, the inter spinus and supraspinous ligament, usually a weak and stretched. And so one of the vertebra has moved forward slightly and it's put pressure on the disc and pushed it out, all that space in between the, when a disc protrudes, the chances are that it might impinge on one of the major nerves coming out of your back and going either down your bottom or to your internal organs. So what we do there is we prolotherapy the ligaments on the backbone that we'll tighten those up and it'll pull that vertebra back into its correct alignment, thereby taking pressure off the bulging disc. Speaker 4: (43:31) Wow. Then we have two ways that we can treat that bulging disc. We can either inject those zone down the spine in the muscles, running down the spine as close to the disc, as we did go and inject ozone, it only takes a few minutes. It's 98% effective for joints for bulging disc 98% effective. That's where you expect to win with bulging discs every time it's insane. And sometimes we can go in through the quarter, which is a little opening at the base of the sacrum. And it allows us to go into the spinal cord. I know this sounds risky, but actually it's a very safe procedure and we can inject those own into the quarter Aquinas. Which thing goes, the ozone travels up the spine to about thoracic that are bred number 10. Speaker 3: (44:35) Yup. Speaker 4: (44:36) Mmm. Which means it travels all the way up the lumbar spine and into the first few discs of the thoracic spine is where the ribs start and 98% effective for reducing bulging discs. So we prevent a lot of surgeries. Speaker 3: (44:55) This is what I mean, this is what, Speaker 4: (44:58) Mmm. Speaker 3: (44:59) Surprises me that, you know, this isn't more known and it isn't out there. And I did know of this 20, like I said, 20, 30 years ago, but this was an option and I've never seen it come back or, you know, proliferate and then people know about prolotherapy and certainly not Prolozone this is good. This is definitely going to help people avoid having to have surgery. And, and, and you'd think this would be well, let's try this first. It would be a great approach. Why isn't this right throughout everywhere? Why, why isn't every doctor offering this or is it a very specialized difficult thing? Speaker 4: (45:36) You know, I can only relate to it in terms of my own personal history. You know, I went and trained in Oregon and I learned things that are not taught here in New Zealand. One of them was the other one product therapy and actually put product therapy in its basic form was actually taught to me by a osteopathic surgeon. I'm just trying to think of his name now. I'll dr. Wilson. I think it was, he was a Harley street physician. He was doing it back in the day. And so we learned some of that often in, there was a famous New Zealand doctor called dr. Only who went and did product therapy and he was doing it in Mexico. So a lot of Americans would go down to Mexico. A lot of Gridiron athletes would get prolotherapy injections. So I heard about him and it turns out he was in New Zealand. Then when I came back 14 years ago to New Zealand, I trained with dr. Ken or Speaker 4: (46:45) Which he dr. Ken or at that time was I think, 92 years old, gosh, and still practicing and Remuera. Wow. And and I still liaise with Fraser Berlin, who was his nephew and doctor, or he was sort of a phrase, a Burling was dr. All's sort of protege if you will. And so he treats a phrase that treats a lot of people that have, and I always get this name wrong, but yeah. Disease, which is a, I think I've pronounced that. Right. It's an odd one. So sometimes I mispronounce it. Anyway that's a generalized disease where ligaments just sort of dissolve. So it's a serious condition. There's about eight or 900 people in New Zealand. Well, he's treating all of them with prolotherapy and it's the best thing they've ever had. So he's another doctor, great work there with prolotherapy. He uses stronger prolotherapy agents than I do. Speaker 4: (47:55) He uses if the NOLA mean and Tetra or sulfate, I believe which is a stronger tightening agent, but you know, we're natural paths. We like to stay with the more natural methods I have used other substances like fish oils, sodium moral weights. You can use those in eyes, blood, you can use vitamin B 12, you can do strong ozone and do the prolotherapy with strong ozone. That's what they call pro Prolozone. But I use dextrose, I use dextrose and I treat the ligaments and then we inject those own around them. And we usually put ozone into the, into the joint. Wow, this is this is incredible. And I think you probably going to be inundated with people wanting to come and see you because it got to be I didn't have a life outside of, and so, you know, I had to train other people. Speaker 4: (48:57) Yeah. I could have time to smell the roses or, and buy things. Exactly. Cause yeah, I mean, you're obviously very, very passionate about helping people and getting the most out of your time. And I mean like just, just you giving up your Sunday morning and spending an hour with me yesterday too on the phone, just so's what sort of a person I had dedicated you are to, to this. And I think that that's just absolutely fantastic. And to have someone with this sort of knowledge and background, a very different approach to what we're perhaps used to seeing here is exciting for me because I can see this is great changes happening. And Amer I think is going to be the, the association for integrative medicine, I think is going to be a fantastic thing. I'm, I'm trying to I want him to become a member. Speaker 4: (49:53) I think it's a, that's the things that are coming down the line now. Pretty exciting aren't they? Oh, they are. And what's happening is doctors and therapists sort of the lines of demarcation are breaking down. Yes. Because it becomes more, not about the doctor. Well, the practitioner it's really about the patient and what are we going to do to help the patient. Yep. And that's because we're all coming from that angle. Yep. We just always looking to, with people of conscience and we're doing the best work we can to recover the health of our population. We use all methods that we think can work and ozone and prolotherapy have enough scientific research behind them. We, we, we can explain in detail exactly why they do work. Yep. And this is, this is just brilliant. And so critics of which, you know, usually I just people that don't know, they just don't know about it. Speaker 4: (50:54) We've been, we've had critics. Mmm. Yeah. We've had mid safe and ministry of health. Everyone's investigated us. And yeah, we provided them with dr. Work, you know, we've provided the scientific literature. Yup. That proves what we're doing is safe, efficient, effective. And and this isn't like, this is really become a family is critical and many of them become active supporters. So we can turn a critic into an active supporter just through education. Gosh, that would be great because I do, I do find in the, you know, the, the straight laced allopathic medicine is still so blinkered. Certainly in my experience and I can say this cause I'm a non-licensed nonmedical professional. It has been very, very frustrating in my own, you know, with my own family's health with my mom's journey, for example. And, and I, and this is one of the reasons why I do the show because I want to create change in movement. And it's not all about pharma pharmacology. It's not all about just surgery. Those are great. And let's look at those, but let's look at the other sides of the coin in trying to connect fantastic people and share this education worth the public. I mean, last week I had Dr. Tim Ewer. Speaker 4: (52:23) I know he's fantastic. And he was on the show last week. And again, he too has had, you know, I know issues okay. The, the, the approaches that he takes, I mean, there's a reason why there's such a mess of waiting lists. And so many people wanting to see people like you because it's not being offered. Unfortunately, you know, dr. Terms down, down South, you're way up North, it's hard for a lot of people. If this was this sort of thing was available. And every time we'd have a lot less people, we would, and we'd save our country, billions in healthcare costs, but really you'd have a happier population being able to work to their full potential rather than have their abilities curtailed because of pain. Really. you asked me why aren't more doctors doing it. I think what's happened is ligaments and tendons have really just basically, I'm going to use the word overlooked. Speaker 4: (53:24) I think doctors are really just overlooked. They'll treat organs and muscles and such but ligaments, well, what, what are you going to do for ligaments? Well, we don't, you can't do anything for ligaments. So we won't put too much attention there cause we can't do anything for it. Yup. Yup. Well, the gap that is the gap in the system where we've come in with product therapy, that's our specialty. We treat ligaments, but all chronic injuries are ligament based. And so our typical patient has been to acupuncturist, osteopath, chiropractor, orthopedic surgeon, GP, soft tissue therapists, CMA, if they've done everything. And when we start to hear that history, it confirms for us, this is great. It's telling us it's a ligament problem. Or yep. Then when we investigate, by the way, all those therapies are very helpful. But if they don't resolve the issue, we know it's a ligament problem. Speaker 4: (54:26) So then we do our injections and the pain goes away. People recover the function of their alum and they ask, how come I never heard about this before? How come no one's ever told me about this? And I said, but we have told you about it. And now we've treated you, what's the issue. You know, people find things when they look for them, but this is, I just wish it was, you know, and this is why the show's important. And this will have a small portion of people that were here at, and hopefully the people that go come to you will also share their experiences, but it's a very slow process to get it out to the, the 98% of other people who are unfortunately unaware of it. I mean, yeah, deep into all of this sort of stuff. Zealand, we only have what, two degrees of separation here. Speaker 4: (55:18) So the work that I'm doing, I know is sprayed right throughout New Zealand, because lots and lots and lots of people have now heard about it. So I've been doing it for 14 years here. And so within New Zealand, most people that have these types of problems, my, my past patients usually we'll tell them to come and they have at least have a look at this therapy. And so I think we have New Zealand pretty well covered. Yeah. This show maybe more people might even think about prolotherapy is that yes, it's needles. Yes. It's injections, but you know what? It only takes a minute or two. But when I start working on a joint within a minute or three, I'm usually completely finished with that area. Fantastic. And then they've got lifelong strength back and it's, you know, $300. Yeah. As opposed to a surgery or continual care that costs over years, many thousands of dollars and especially avoidance surgeries, which can be very expensive. Speaker 4: (56:31) We prevent a lot of knee replacements. We get people that have had knee replacements or joint replacements where it hasn't worked perfectly. They're still in pain. So, you know, you hear, you do hear a lot of horror stories, but I also hear a lot of people that have had joint replacement that they're very happy with. So I'm not sort of a critical of it, but if you've had a joint replacement, you're still in pain consider product therapy because he taught me. And so the doctor can, or that we can do product therapy around a joint replacement and it still works very, very well surprisingly, but it does. Speaker 3: (57:12) Yep. Fantastic. I mean, I, it makes sense to me. You know, so I think, you know, dr. Wayne we've covered quite a lot of territory today. We we've done, I was on therapy, a little bit of the background, what it's doing now, how it works, we've gone into prolotherapy and even into Prolozone therapy. Speaker 4: (57:32) Yeah. Prolozone is doing prolotherapy, but just using strong ozone irritating and you just inject the gas. Cause I was owns always a guest. We inject strong ozone into the ligament using the product therapy, needling technique. Mmm. Because just the needle itself going in and out through the ligament creates the ligament, the bikings use fish phones and they would just prolotherapy a ligament with fishbone. Oh, sounds terrific. Shot. And it would create new ligament by us doing a little injection at the end of it. We of course maximize the effect. Mmm. Speaker 3: (58:13) Well, if you think about it, anything that causes a rotation, the body seems more stuff there to fix it. Speaker 4: (58:19) Mmm. You know, Speaker 3: (58:21) So dr. Wayne, I want to say thank you very, very much for your time today. I really appreciate it on a Sunday morning. We can people find you and we're, you know, where's the best place to connect with you and come and see you. Speaker 4: (58:34) You can look up waipu natural health, waipu natural health. So we're in Northland or they can look up dr. Ozone doc, T O R O Z one, So doctorozone1@gmail.com contact the Northland environmental health center in camo. And we do all these therapies there. Speaker 3: (59:05) Fantastic. And I would love an introduction to dr. Damien Wojciech at some stage. That would be really fantastic. Speaker 4: (59:13) I'll share with them that while I did this podcast. Yeah. And I can put you in touch with them. Speaker 3: (59:18) Sounds brilliant. Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate the work, the passion, the education that you've invested in all of this and bringing this to New Zealand that's really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for the opportunity of sharing it with our people. Oh, it's fantastic. Speaker 1: (59:36) That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

Doctors Robert Rowen is a world renown Ozone and oxidative medicine clinician who creates personalized treatment plans that strive to address both the symptoms and the underlying causes of disease. The most common being energy-blocking "interference fields",  toxins in the body, a compromised metabolism, stress, unbalanced emotions, and poor nutrition. Removing these hindrances often helps your body to heal. Dr Rowen uses a myriad of therapies including Ozone therapy which we do a deep dive into in this interview. Ozone and the other forms of oxidative medicine he uses helps people recover from chronic pain, chronic fatigue, arthritis, Lyme Disease, autoimmune disorders, chronic infections, immune/allergy issues, and cardiac/circulatory system conditions. The Clinic also provides supportive therapies for patients challenged with cancer. The Need for an Innovative Approach Western medicine has made great strides in emergency medicine and surgical techniques. Despite this progress, some ailments stubbornly resist conventional treatment. There is also increasing evidence that some pharmacological treatments do more harm than good. For patients with difficult medical conditions, "incurable" diseases, and for those who seek to restore their health, standard medical practices are usually not the answer.   About Dr Rowen    Doctor Robert Rowen has been practicing medicine for more than three decades. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Johns Hopkins University before attending medical school at the University of California, San Francisco. Following medical school and residency, he attained Board certification in two fields: Family Practice and Emergency Medicine. Finding that pharmacological medicine could do more harm than good, Doctor Rowen made the leap to integrative medicine in the 1980's. He practiced in Alaska from 1979 to 2001 before joining Dr. Su in Santa Rosa in 2001. Dr. Rowen has developed an international reputation for pioneering work in oxidation and other innovative medical treatments. He spearheaded Alaska's first initiative to provide statutory protection for integrative medical treatments and was appointed to the Alaska State Medical Board. He is a frequent lecturer on oxidation, food and nutrition, the limitations of conventional Western medicine and other topics. Dr. Rowen uses YouTube and Facebook to provide public insight into his approach, often accompanied by commentary from his patients. Dr. Rowen has received awards from the American College for Advancement of Medicine (ACAM), International Oxidation Medicine Association (IOMA), Society for Oxidative and Photonic Medicine (SOPMed), American Academy of Ozonotherapy (AAO), and other organizations for his work in oxidation medicine and advocacy for medical freedom. Dr. Rowen was awarded the Cancer Control Society's Humanitarian Award in 2013. https://drrowendrsu.com/   Link to the video on how to use ozone therapy by Dr Rowen and Dr Su. https://drrowendrsu.com/our-blog/ozone-without-borders-home-ozone-demonstration/   If you are wanting to purchase an at home ozone therapy kit please contact Kim Saxton who was on this podcast in episode 151. Kim owns www.naturalozone.co.nz and can help get you set up for using ozone for a myriad of uses at home.    We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) Today, I have an exciting episode with dr. Robert Rowan, who is a oxidative medicine specialist in ozone clinician from center Rosa in California. Dr. Robin is a world renowned practitioner in oxidative medicine. He graduated from the John Hopkins university and before going into integrative medicine as well. Now, dr. Rowan is going to be talking in depth about ozone therapy in particular today, but also oxidative medicine. We did a session a couple of weeks back with Kim Sexton of naturalozone.co.nz who has ozone machines in New Zealand. And if anyone is wanting to find out more about ozone and you, if you were in New Zealand or Australia, then please you can contact Kim Sexton and listen to that episode as well. But in this episode, we do a really, really deep dive with Dr. Rob into the ins and outs of ozone therapy, what it can be used for and the dangers and the, the therapies involved. Speaker 2: (01:17) Very, very interesting story. Now, before I go over to Dr. Rowan if anyone is interested in joining us for a live webinar on epigenetics, we have an epigenetics health program that looks at personalizing every area of your health and your nutrition, your exercise, even looking at your social environment, all based on your genes in optimizing food for your genes, the right environment for you. If you're interested in finding out a little bit more about epigenetics and how it can help you and our personalized approach to health, then please register it. Epigenetics.lisatamati.com or put it in the show notes, epigenetics.lisatamati.com. We holding webinars every one to two weeks at the moment. If you'd like to join us live to learn more about that right now, over to the show with dr. Robert Rowan. Speaker 2: (02:08) Well, hi everyone. It's Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits today. I have a really, really special trade. One of the world's leading experts and ozone therapy and oxidative medicine is to guest with me today on the show dr. Robert Rowan, who is from California. So thank you very much, dr. Rowan for joining me today. I'm super excited to have you on the show. So thank you very much for, for coming on and sharing your, your amazing wisdom. Dr. Ron, can you give us a little bit of background about the work that you do and your, your clinic and in particular about ozone ozone therapy, I've been doing those on since 1986 and it changed my life. We use those on, in many different applications and aspects. One of the large you'll have to forgive Speaker 3: (03:00) Me. My I'm not sick. I just it's in here. W I do a lot of work in chronic fatigue, Lyme disease sea foods, and ozone is almost a miracle for these people. It, it's not a hundred percent. I don't want your viewers to think that anything is a hundred percent. We'll get back to that. In a moment, I do a lot of ozone for knees joints and rebuilding tissues. And if I, like I said, I started in 1986. And when I saw the first machine I looked at, I said, ozone, that's an oxidant. Aren't we supposed to be scared of oxidants. The answer to that is no, our body is all about oxidation. There's oxygen out here in the air. We breathe it. Yeah, it's an oxidant. It's not as powerful as ozone, but PO's on his oxygen. And our own body makes ozone and most people don't know this. It may close on his part of our defense against diseases like COVID other viruses and bacteria and our bodies make a whole host of oxidants, including bleach, hydrogen peroxide, ozone nitric, oxide, something called singlet oxygen, super oxide, and more. And this is our part of our bodies. Army are defenses against infection, and it leads to a lot of really quite good things. We wouldn't be here if we didn't have it. And if we do ozone therapy, we're just augmenting natural processes. Speaker 2: (04:46) Right. It's because I, you know, I've been a little bit confused in the research that I've been doing. Cause I was like you said, originally going, hang on oxidative, oxidants aren't we meant to be running away from having oxidative stress in our cells and anti taking antioxidants. And so on, on reactive oxygen species is meant to be a bad thing. And here we are introducing an oxidant into the body. So I was a little bit like, how does that work? Is it like a hermetic stress when you introduce ozone into the body that it creates a cascade of feet? Is that what's going on? Speaker 3: (05:21) There's something called hormesis. How do you adapt to anything? All organisms adapt by a stress stress by itself. Isn't necessarily bad. If I want to build muscles, for example, I pump and that creates stress on the muscles and the muscles adapt. They get bigger, hopefully and stronger ozone is the same thing. It's like a controlled burn that stimulates our anti burning defenses so that our immune system is much more robust. Yep. Speaker 2: (05:59) Okay. So now, dr. Rowan, you have a really interesting story. Now, when I heard the story about you going to Sierra Leone a few years ago, when the Ebola crisis was fallen swing, would you mind sharing the story? I've heard it on Dave Asprey's show who I absolutely love and adore what he does. The work that he does is absolutely fantastic. He's had a massive influence on my life without knowing it all the great people that he's brought to the show. But he so he told, told the story in that interview about the Ebola crisis. And you looked at the biochemistry of this virus, this horrible, horrific virus that was taking over there, and you thought, hang on, ozone could do something here. And you went down to Sierra Leone. Could you pick up that story for us? Speaker 3: (06:52) I knew that ozone would work. I just knew it because the biochemistry of the Ebola virus and COVID virus it shows us that there's some key vulnerabilities on the viral coat. It could be knocked out by ozone that's, the sustainable of ourselves have that same vulnerability too, but ourselves can repair it, viruses and bacteria cannot repair it. So it's it's analogous to this. Here are my fingers and the viral coats have something called soft hydro groups. There's an amino acid called cysteine C Y S T E I N E. And it is active by thinkers called SOFE hydro groups. If those fingers get chopped, now it's not active anymore. And it can't get into the cookie jar. So I thought this would be useful. Somebody put me in touch with the doctor in Sierra Leone who knew the president, and we were extended and official presidential invitation to go. Speaker 3: (08:03) And I recruited a buddy of mine, Howard Robbins, who didn't want to go at first. I said, he said, you're crazy. I said, I'll go. And then he thought about it for a moment. He said, wait a minute. You're not going to get all the credit for a method that I used. He came to, and while we were there, the government shut down the project through the ministry of health. And we strongly believe, and based on some credible evidence that pharma did this, they shut it down because it would've just been too dangerous that if $5 treatment would cure Ebola and therein lies the problem. So we shut down, but we managed to get the five people after the fact. And we published it in the African journal of infectious diseases. Wow. All five patients recovered. Speaker 2: (08:57) Wow. And this is a disease that had an up to 90% death rate from, from memory. So 60%, okay. 60%. So those five people, and that must have been absolutely devastating for you. You know, you're in the middle of training, the doctors and health professionals, they're like, I was hit in the, in the gonads. I can imagine really, because it really it's big money and big pharma. Who's probably come in and shut this down so that they can sell their drugs instead. And because ozone is not going to make anybody rich, anytime soon it shut down. And this is something that you're seeing, you know, quite a lot of the, sort of this war going on, it would say there's a, there's a war going on. We think that's true. Yeah. And I think, you know, like shows like this. So that's why they're important because they make people aware of what's going on and make people ask questions and look outside the standard standard of care to, to therapies that are, that are really, really powerful. So okay. So in the light today of the Corona virus, do you see ozone as having a big role to play in, in helping people in dire straits with this? Can it perhaps knock out the Corona virus? I know we'd have to be careful what we say, but well we have free speech here and I'm not, I can say what I believe. Speaker 3: (10:31) I believe that ozone would be the treatment of choice for this virus. I said that in articles that I published in the peer review journal, I believe it's the ideal antiviral I would want to get to the patient before they're in dire straits. If they're in dire straits, they're in dire straits, you want to get too long before that. And you want to start treating them early because I mean, any, any physician will tell you it's better to take care of something earlier rather than later. Speaker 2: (11:00) Absolutely. Absolutely. And there is a lot of work going on around the world with ozone in comp and sometimes in combination with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is something that I've been very vocal about and, and used a lot and had a clinic here. Do you see that that's a really good combination is ozone and hyperbarics sort of related in a way Speaker 3: (11:29) They're all oxygen based therapies. Hyperbaric is an oxygenation therapy. Ozone is more of an oxidation therapy, but they all, they all possess some similar properties. Speaker 2: (11:46) And that's the whole point of both of these therapies or one of the main ones is delivering oxygen, hypoxic Speaker 3: (11:53) Tissue and getting more oxygen. Can you explain the 03? And so oxygen is O2. We know that ozone is O3, once it gets into the bloodstream. And we'll talk about delivery mechanisms in a moment what's it actually doing when it gets inside? Can you explain the mechanisms of action there? All right. Well, we breathe out. So here you have 02 in a lightening bolt or an electric discharge or ultraviolet splits it and oxygen goes careening off to an Oh two. And now you have all three. It's not a very stable molecule. It's got a half-life in Romero of about 30 minutes. And then it composes back to O2, but is extremely reactive oxygen in the air is not that reactive. If it was, we would burn up, but you need a source of ignition. Do you understand that? Yup. Yup. Mixed gasoline and air. Speaker 3: (12:52) And you need a source of ignition for it to ignite. Yup. So oxygen alone. Doesn't do it. Ozone carries the ignition. It carries the spark. When ozone is given to a, somebody, a whole cascade of things happens, ozone reacts instantly with blood components. One of the things that it does that incites is an increase in something called two, three DGP, which enables red cells to deliver more oxygen to tissues. So in that sense, it's an oxygenation treatment. Those would also improves red blood cell flexibility. So we can get through the red cell is bigger than a capillary. Yeah. And it can't get through the red cell has to flex to get through. So it improves that ozone seems to stimulate mitochondrial oxygen consumption. Okay. Mitochondria are the furnaces of the bite of the cells that have power packs that make the energy. So they are going to use a lot more. Speaker 3: (13:56) I think up to 50 times, the amount of oxygen when, when, when no, the mitochondria are in all cells and they're dependent upon getting oxygen to make energy. Now your white blood cells fight infection. And when they're fighting infection, they need 50 to 100 times more oxygen than they do when they're at rest. Wow. Anything you can do to get oxygen to them is going to help them. So hyperbaric will help them by getting more oxygen. Ozone will help them by assisting with oxygen. Ozone also stimulates a modulation of the immune system, sort of immune system is overactive like this. It brings it into balance like this that's underactive. It brings it back into balance. Ozone modulates, the immune system, ozone stimulate certain enzymes. One is called heme originates, which is an anti inflammatory enzyme. Ozone increases the NF, our pathway, which is an anti aging antioxidant pathway. And it's one of the most fabulous substances ever seen in medicine, but it's not used much because it can't be patented. So it's not pushed only people who think are using it Speaker 2: (15:17) As was some of these broad spectrum medicines as again therapies. It is the, the age old problem of you can't patent something. So therefore it's of no use to anybody doing you know, randomized control trials. So, okay. So, so ozone is very, very powerful when it gets into the body. Something I was trying to understand it doesn't make hydrogen peroxide. And isn't the hydrogen peroxide like a disinfectant Speaker 3: (15:51) Oh, zone itself is a disinfectant. Ultraviolet is a disinfectant. Bleach is a disinfected. Our body makes bleach, our body makes hydrogen peroxide. Wow. Ozone does work through hydrogen peroxide mechanisms. Speaker 2: (16:09) So it's, it does it when it, when it first enters the bloodstream, it cause as you said, it's very reactive. So it doesn't stay in its stable state very long. It, it pings off and starts to do different things. Does it, is it creating the hydrogen peroxide and please, you know, I might get this all wrong. And then it's becoming, you know, oxidants that are then doing their job in different parts of the body. Speaker 3: (16:38) When I was on enters the blood, it reacts instantly and it creates a downstream cascade of what we call ozone eyes. Hydrogen peroxide is one of them. Aldehydes cyclic oxygen compounds are still oxidants, but not as powerful as ozone those on reacts instantly. It's gone instantly. And then it leaves behind the, what we call these reactive oxygen species. And they do the work. Speaker 2: (17:11) They do the work cause we've, we've been 29. And just going back to the beginning of the conversation, that reactive oxygen species of dangerous things, and they ping around the cell and cause damage, everything has to Speaker 3: (17:22) Being balanced, Speaker 2: (17:23) Right? Speaker 3: (17:24) Here's the best way I can explain it. You're a woman. You have both testosterone and estrogen in your body. It's the balance for you? And I have the same hormones and it's a different balance for me. All right. So reactive oxygen species are in balance in our body. We cannot live without them, right? But if you get too much of them in certain forms, it can be deleterious when COVID or Ebola stimulates, what's called a cytokine storm, which is how people are dying. Now you're having overwhelmingly too much. Speaker 2: (18:01) So this was the immune system overreacting and sending out too many soldiers to fight the battle and actually shooting everything good, bad. And the ugly thing in sight, Speaker 3: (18:11) Those on ozone could help modulator Speaker 2: (18:13) That modulate. So it's a modulator. So if it's overreacting or underreacting, it will bring it into balance. Everything seems to be in medicine. The more I study, the more I learned that everything's a Goldie locks Speaker 3: (18:26) Principle, isn't it? Everything is Goldilocks. Everything has to be imbalanced. Look, they talk about the earth position from the sun is the Goldilocks zone, right? Everything is balanced. Yeah. Everything was when you when you're carrying a shopping bag, you're putting a stress on your body, your body adapts and reacts to it. It has to, and that's what life is about for both plants and animals is adaptation. So we're doing what controlled adaptation here and it's helping the immune system build its muscle. Speaker 2: (19:00) Wow. Okay. So can you can we now pivot a little bit into ultraviolet radiation because this is one of the other oxidative medicines that I I believe you're an expert and, and know about, can you earn, and this is something that has really, I've never heard of it prior to learning about you is what is ultraviolet radiation? And can you give us a little bit of the history of it and how is it being used today still? Speaker 3: (19:32) Yeah, this is provide Ozon was developed in Europe, although Nicola Tesla patented in American generator and around 1900 or so, ultra violet was developed here originally. And there was a machine called the knot, K N O T T hemo radiator. There's still a couple on the planet and it is a phenomenal treatment and it was published. There's a whole series of articles that came out in the late 30s through the 40s. Lots of them on its use in infection. And it is a sister therapy of ozone. It is an oxidation therapy because ultraviolet has ionizing radiation and it kicks off an electron. So it's considered an it's in the family of oxidation therapies. The two have very similar longterm mechanisms of actions and the articles that were published in our literature and the 1940s were simply stunning when it came to infection. Speaker 2: (20:35) Wow. And what is it actually doing in the body? So you're delivering the light somehow into the Speaker 3: (20:41) Delivering light to the blood, the blood absorbs ultraviolet. And then that simulates a series reactions, not too dissimilar to ozone. Speaker 2: (20:51) Right. Is it, is it a bit like photo synthesis for clowns? You know, is it the miter totally different? I thought, well, maybe they've got photo receptors on the mitochondria and that's, what's actually causing it. So, no, it's not Speaker 3: (21:05) In the case of ultraviolet blood drips down a chamber here on this side and light is coming through here and striking the blood as it goes. And that causes chemical changes in the blood similar to what ozone does. Wow. Speaker 2: (21:24) Okay. And is this still being used today? Because I know Ema Knott was very he had off awful travels didn't they? He, he, he was the man who invented this originally and got shut down again by people, shall we say? Can you, again some sort of mafia came along and shut down his his work along with, with other people Speaker 3: (21:54) Actually in his case, their company went out of business, went out of business because tomorrow's Fishbein who ran the American medical association. One of the pieces of this company, you said no to Maurice can have it. So Mara's felt to destroy the company and he set up a bogus study and this is what, I'm, what I've learned. And between that, and the advent of antibiotics, antibiotics were just coming out. Then it's very easy to give somebody a pill. It was a lot easier than to do a blood treatment. Yeah. So the company actually went out of business, but some of the machines survived Speaker 2: (22:36) And nowadays there are other people looking into this area of science again. Oh yes. So we can get access to new machinery. Are you doing this type of therapy? Speaker 3: (22:48) I do ultraviolet in my office. I'm very happy with it. Speaker 2: (22:53) Okay. Cause I, I don't, I'm not aware of it, anybody doing it down here, I'd be very interested to find out if it's still being done or people are picking that up again because all of these, is it similar to photo biomodulation or is that a different thing again? And low level laser therapy, Speaker 3: (23:12) Laser therapy is different. It's a different mechanism. It's different. It's different than this. Yeah. This is actually frankly, irradiating the blood it's rewriting radiating the blood with ultraviolet and it's not just ultraviolet. It's several different spectrums, but with ultraviolet being the main ultraviolet, let's see being the main spectrum. Speaker 2: (23:33) Wow. Okay. So something to do more research on and learn more about what's the, what's the ozone now, there are different ways of delivering it. And I, I've got a ozone cast here and there are certain things that I can do and certain things that I can't do as a, as a lay person in my home. Can you explain the different types of therapies and what, which ones are the most powerful and including the prolotherapy and protozoan injections, which I believe you do as well. And the other ways that you can get ozone into the body, Speaker 3: (24:11) There's, you can give ozone every way to the body that you want to give. Except one, you can't breathe, you can't breathe. It, it will be harmful to the lungs, but it can be given in the blood. You can make those on water and drink it. You can put it through a stethoscope, into your ears. Women can take it into their vagina. Oh, sexes can do rectal. I've put it in the bladder. I've injected the man's prostate. I inject joints muscle under the skin really, really safe. The only downside is if you don't do it right, it can stink. The injection itself can stink. It can be uncomfortable. But other than that, it's extraordinarily safe. I've done many, many thousands of these with not a hitch. Speaker 2: (25:03) And, and so we were doing IV therapies. This is a doctor only medical way of delivering it. Is that the most powerful way and like 10 paths or, Speaker 3: (25:17) Yeah. Those what you're trying to do. If you had a local vaginal problem, would you take it IV? No. You would take vaginal. Know if you have a local joint problem, you would take it in your joint. But if you have a systemic problem and COVID is systemic, or you have Lyme disease, which doesn't exist in Australia, I think, you know that yeah. Medical authorities don't believe that there is such a thing as Lyme disease. The American CDC says there's 300,000 new cases every year in this country. Wow. But if you have Lyme disease or a systemic problem then you want to do it systemically in your blood. Speaker 2: (26:05) Okay. And there is 10 past therapy. Can you explain what team passes as opposed to just a normal life? Yes. Speaker 3: (26:13) Therapy is very high dose ozone it's high dose. Yeah. The standard ozone therapy involves taking 200 CCS of blood and maybe 8,000 micrograms of ozone in that blood with 10 pass therapy, we're giving 144,000 micrograms. Wow. Wow. Speaker 2: (26:40) [So it's basically taking the blood out, putting the ozone, putting the blood back in and repeating that process 10 times. So we're just really is this for really acute cases where you're, you know, you've run out of options. And I think we have that here in New Zealand. I don't think we have any doctor doing that type of procedure, unfortunately, down under, or at least in New Zealand, perhaps in Australia. But, but rectally and ear and supplication and so on is just as powerful. Speaker 3: (27:13) No, it's not, I don't think it's just as powerful, but I believe the end result will probably be very similar Speaker 2: (27:21) If we haven't repeated. Yeah. can I help with brain injury? I've have just released a book relentless, which tells the story of bringing my mum back after a mess of aneurysm. They've toured with major brain damage at age four 74. And I did hyperbaric oxygen therapy with her, which was an absolute cornerstone of her therapy along with a lot of other things. And I'm only just now getting to the ozone, can that help with brain damage? I mean, she's now normal, but yeah, it can help. Speaker 3: (27:54) I would do ozone for any sort of damage because any damage involves low oxygen and getting more oxygen is critically important. Speaker 2: (28:03) Yep. Would the ear insufflation given that we hear, like, for example, can't get Ivy, we can't get anything else. Would that be enough? Speaker 3: (28:17) Everything is relative. It depends. I know people it's, I know some people have fixed their hearing, their dizziness, it fixed the respiratory infections. I've heard of the arrows on doing all kinds of things. And by the way, your viewers should know that home ozone demonstration is available for a donation of 20 us dollars toes on without borders, ozone, http://www.ozonewithoutborders.ngo/ made a video of all the homos on methods and donated it to that organization to get proceeds. Speaker 2: (28:54) Okay. So that was http://www.ozonewithoutborders.ngo/ Speaker 3: (28:59) And as in Nancy, G as in George, O as in Oscar. Speaker 2: (29:03) Okay. We'll put that in the show notes. So people can go and buy that for $20 us and get an explanation of how to set up your own home therapy, which is absolutely brilliant. Cause it is quite complicated and you need to know what you're doing and the dangers in relation to, to the lungs. Okay. Well, doctor Dr. Rowan, I just want to thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. I, you know, it's pretty late over there. I think so. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I just want to thank you for the work that you've been doing in this area and for sharing this, the oxidative medicine and ozones therapy all around the world. I mean, you are one of the topics fits in the world, so sick to get you know, a bit of time with you today has been a true honor. Speaker 2: (29:49) And I really, really thank you for all the work that you're doing. Thank you for having me. I hope it helps in our website. People should go to that. Cause I got information and articles that I published there. It's dr. Rowan, https://drrowendrsu.com/, D R R O W E N D R SU, .com, dr. Rowan, https://drrowendrsu.com/. Okay. I'll make sure that that gets in the show notes and if anybody has questions, they can, they can reach out to you there. So thank you very much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it, dr. Rowan. Speaker 2: (30:28) Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. I hope you enjoyed that show. I just wanted to let you know a little bit of great news for the show for pushing the limits, which has been going now for five years, it's a labor of love and something that I've been very, very passionate about sharing all these great insights with you. And we've just been rated in the top 200 shows of an entire world in the health and fitness Journal. So that's a really, really a great achievement for the show. And I'd just like to thank the whole team that's in behind all this to make this happen. And we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes. That would be super, super appreciated. So top 200, thanks very much for being a listener and we love your loyalty and we really appreciate you. Speaker 1: (31:13) That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.        

Cat and Teddi, along with special guest, Lisa Wimberger, as explore the incredible power of the brain to continually create new neuro-pathways. These new pathways enable us to learn new skills, overcome emotional trauma, heal the body, and ultimately, create the life we are meant to live. Lisa is the founder ofhttp://www.neurosculptinginstitute.com/ ( The Neurosculpting® Institute) & http://www.tpconsultinggroup.com/ (TPCG)  a subsidiary of Ripple Effect, llc. Lisa is also the author of http://www.amazon.com/Neurosculpting-Whole-Brain-Approach-Limiting-Wholeness/dp/1622032284 (Neurosculpting: A Whole-Brain Approach to Heal Trauma, Rewrite Limiting Beliefs, and Find Wholeness )& http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1611250137/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1622032284&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Z6FR61G2JCWMZM86PYQ (New Beliefs, New Brain) as well a several other audio book titles. For Lisa's complete bio and other info visit our Facebook Page at https://www.facebook.com/higherstateofbeing/ (https://www.facebook.com/higherstateofbeing) or our Support this podcast

In this interview Lisa talks to Dr Tim Ewer an integrated medical practitioner about his approach to medicine some of the complementary therapies he uses besides conventional allopathic medicine and what exciting research is happening around the world - they get into everything from laser therapy to light therapy to hyperbaric oxygen therapy and beyond.   Dr Tim concentrates on individual and personalised  patient care and combines the best of current western medical practices with evidence-based traditional and complementary medicines and practices. Integrative medicine takes into account the physical, psychological, social and spiritual wellbeing of the person with the aim of using the most appropriate and safe evidence-based treatments.   Lisa sees this integrated approach and open minded attitude that is constantly looking at the latest research and technologies and that focuses on the root causes and on optimal health rather than disease as being the way of the future. Dr Tim's Bio in brief  Dr Tim Ewer (MB ChB, MMedSc, MRCP, FRACP, FRNZCGP, DCH, DRCOG, Dip Occ Med, FACNEM) is vocationally qualified as a physician and general practitioner. Tim has been working as a specialist in integrative medicine for the last 30 years, before which he was a hospital physician for 10 years after gaining his medical degree and specialist qualifications in the UK.   Dr Tim's website  https://teora.co.nz/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) Well, hi everyone. And welcome back to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you this week. I have dr. Tim Ewer, who has an integrated medical practitioner and physician who is based on the beautiful region of in the South Island of New Zealand. And Dr. Tim came to my attention because he has a really an amazing hyperbaric facility in this area. He used to work at the Christchurch hospitals and he's a hyperbaric trying to doctor he's also does a lot of complimentary and integrated medical approaches. So looking at everything from Eastern medicine through to, you know, acupuncture through to laser therapy. And in this conversation today, we have a good real in depth. Talk about where, you know, things are going some of the greatest and latest research and technologies that are coming on stream and some of the exciting developments and his approach to healing people and helping people. Speaker 2: (01:09) I just like to remind you, before I hand over to Dr. Tim my book relentless is now available in stores right throughout New Zealand. It's also available worldwide on Amazon, on audio books. It's in my website at lisatamati.com. I'd love you to go and check that out. And the book is titled relentless. And as the story of bringing my mum back after a mess of aneurysm and being told that she would never do anything again, and this was our journey back, it's a really insightful book that looks at the mindset of overcoming massive challenges. And I really love you to go and read that and to share that with your networks as well. Lastly, before I go, I'd like you to also follow me on Instagram. I'm quite active on Instagram and on my YouTube channel as well. Have over 600 videos on the YouTube channel and including a whole lot of my documentaries that I made from my beaches around the world. If you want to have a look at the YouTube channel that's just it just search for Lisa Tamati on YouTube, and that will come up and on Instagram, it's @lisatamati right now over to Dr. Tim Ewer and of the mapper health center in mapper. Speaker 2: (02:23) Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show this week, I have a special guest, dr. Tim Ewer, Dr. Tim is sitting down and mapper and the views of DePaul sort of Nelson area. How you doing dr. Tim Speaker 3: (02:36) Very well. Thank you strangely a rainy day to day, but that's probably the rest of New Zealand a bit rainy. And normally it's always sunny here. Speaker 2: (02:46) Very sunny place. I was just saying I used to live down there for a few months when I was picking apples back in my young years, and it was hard work, but I'm very a beautiful area to live in. So yeah, you live in a piece of paradise doctor you are as an integrated medical professional and has a hyperbaric clinic down down that way. I don't want it to get dr. tim To talk to, I don't know if we have a doctor, Tim doctor, you are, what would you prefer? I've got to go back to share a little bit about the work that you do and talk about traumatic brain injury in particular as an area that is obviously my interest with my mum's story. So can you give us a little bit of background, your background and how you got into doing what you're doing and the integrative and hyperbaric side of things? Speaker 3: (03:41) Sure. I guess my story from that point of view, start it off. I'm originally from England. So I trained in England at one of the English universities. And even when I finished my training and I'd come out with distinctions and all of those sorts of things I thought there must be more to what medicine's about or what health is about. Let's say than what I have been told. And ever since then, I've been looking to find other ways to, to improve people's wellbeing. So I continued on with my specialist training became what's called a specialist physician. But at the same time, I would sneak off at weekends and go to the London college of acupuncture and learned acupuncture. And I learned medical hypnosis, and I ended up studying nutrition and some homeopathy and a variety of different things, including bioenergetic medicines over the years, of course I spent a bit of time working in hospital as a specialist. Speaker 3: (04:45) And that's actually where I came across hyperbaric medicine. That was in Christchurch where they had a big hospital. I was working in the hospital as a specialist and they had a big hyperbaric chamber there. So I spent seven years helping to run that we did it free and we spent our weekends or nighttime sometimes helping people with the Benz and carbon monoxide poisoning and all sorts of things like that. And at that point, I had a little bit of an existential crisis and decided that I wanted to leave the hospital side and develop my own integrative clinic, which I did. So we're going back 20 or more years now. Wow. And I moved up to this beautiful area and now in, and found a little place to work from and thought, well, if everything goes well, people will eventually just come to me and find me. Speaker 3: (05:35) And that's really what's happened. I started off way back then with just myself and a wonderful Mary receptionist. And now we have 23 staff and that part of the clinic so much so that I've now moved across the road to have a separate integrative clinic so that I can continue to just doing what I like to do with a couple of nurses and myself and two other integrative doctors and an integrative psychologist and these sort of people. So it was a matter of pulling things together over time to, to have a variety of options for people, a variety of it in a way of languages, how to understand disease and wellness. And what I've found over all of those years is that there isn't necessarily, as, as the great sages have often said, there's many paths to the top of the mountain. So it's a matter of finding the right one for each person versus a lot of Western medicine, which is very much scripted in terms of you have this diagnosis, you have this treatment versus you are this person with this variety of different things going on in your life. Speaker 3: (06:54) How can we find ways of getting either balance or detoxed or whatever needs to happen in that process to get it back towards house. Speaker 2: (07:06) So it's sort of looking more towards the root causes and, and as opposed to dealing just with symptoms and looking a little bit outside the box, did you, did you cop a lot of flack for that in the early days with, you know, coming from their sort of allopathic, conventional medicine world and, and looking then at things like acupuncture and you know, things that are outside of the, the standard box, if you like, has it been a difficult road or a in, have you seen that change over the last few years? Speaker 3: (07:42) It's a good question. I think originally I had to do it secretly and it wasn't approved and it was separate too. And I had to, I had to have two different lives as sort of Jekyll and Hyde components going on and you can decide, which is which out of mainstream or holistic. And so that was kind of difficult. But over the years what I found is if I started applying some of these techniques and people simply started getting better my colleagues would say, well, what are you doing? You know, what's, what's happening to those people that don't normally get better and now they're getting better. So that started me, gave me the opportunity to start talking about some of the things I did, but to be honest, while working in the hospital environment, it was quite difficult. So it wasn't until I moved up and started my own separate clinic that it gave me much more space, if you like to practice other things. However, I will say that the conservative elements of the mainstream still quite antagonistic to some of the things that we like to do in integrative medicine. And so there is that sense of walking along the brief tight wire, some of the times and having to basically practice really good medicine in a mainstream way, plus all the other things of both sides. Speaker 2: (09:17) Yeah. Being brilliant in both sides of that. So yeah, I, I mean, I th I see as a, someone who's come, not from a medical background but had a few issues along the way, shall we say, and going, okay, this isn't working, I'm going to look outside the box for myself. And having, you know, a couple of, with my mum, with myself with my brothers some very great success in, in looking outside the box. And I see a a massive movement of, of change and change in mentality now because we have access via the internet and the, and the stuff that we have available by a pub med and all those sort of great places where you can go and do your own research, that it's no longer completely controllable what what we do. And we can take ownership more, and we have the ability to take more ownership that we didn't have when we didn't have the internet and the ability to access great minds and great people and great research and the information that's coming out, you know, on a daily basis. Speaker 2: (10:25) I mean, no person on earth can stay up with it all. It's just so much. So if you wanting to do your own deep dive into a certain area, you can certainly find yourself down some very deep rabbit holes and becoming quite expert in a, in a, in a narrow field that you're trying to research. And do you see that in the people that are coming to you, that there is a shift in the people that are starting to come to you and say, Hey, I've seen this, I've heard about this, I've read about this as this something that's gonna help me. And people taking more ownership in that, in the, in the clientele that you sort of have, Speaker 3: (10:59) I think you're right. I mean, we're part of a informational revolution that's going on at the moment. I did say it's escalating all the time and it's growing and growing, which is a wonderful thing. Most of the time, it's the song, which is either contused or fake news, as they say. And I think being well-informed as the main thing, a lot of this, it is about helping a person become informed about what's going on. And so they can then take more control over themselves because they understand what it's about. And so that's the journey in a sense, it's helping to understand the person to some extent, walking in their shoes a wee bit to see, okay, what's going on? How can I put this together and express it back in a way where that person can make the right changes to bring about what they need to do? Speaker 3: (11:51) That's an edge, a very general of looking at it. Sometimes I had a great example this week of a person who came in a woman who was in her forties. She was well educated, but she had a whole selection of what, in Western medicine, we might consider the bizarre symptoms from neurological ones to skin, to all sorts of things. And she'd seen urologists and various people, and they'd all been scratching their heads about what's going on. She's obviously not, well, we can't put it together. But I said, look, why don't we, why don't we try a different language for this? And I then talked about the whole concept of low kidney energy and how it related to her tinnitus to her lack of mental agility to all sorts of components. And it's not to say it was just a way of bringing a whole raft of things together in a way that had a sense to it, rather than a sort of chaos, that, that chaos can be very unsettling and you don't know how to make sense. And particularly the experts can't make sense of it. Then you're kind of stuck with what the heck's going on. I might just going mad and, and she wasn't, she was just having a whole series of different things, which we could start bringing together under an umbrella of understanding. And even though we didn't have to use TCM as part of the treatment necessarily it gave it, she felt so much more at ease by the end of that, with an explanation that seemed to bring things together. Speaker 2: (13:36) Yeah. And it enabled her to maybe take a new approach to the way, say if you're getting disparate sort of information. Cause it was really hard when you're looking at sometimes your, your symptoms and then trying to go, well, where is this coming from? And what is it, you know? And it could be a myriad of things and trying to piece it together. You must have an incredible brain to be able to hold all of these, facets it without any sort of contradicting you know, dogmas even with an, in the knowledge that you have. Do you find that a bit of a juggling act at times, Speaker 3: (14:14) Strangely enough, not much. There are various possibilities for that. One is if you're into astrology, I'm a Gemini. I'm not a great, astrologist mind you, but there's two of me. And so we can talk to each other. I was brought up in a way where I, interestingly I don't want to get into my personal background particularly, but at one point I was went to a very expensive English school, but I actually stayed with my mother in a council house in a really poor area. So I went from one group of, in the morning to another one in the evening. Wow. And you had to talk the language of both. Yeah, yeah. To work it through. And I think that a sense of dance of life is good because it makes one, I'm able to cope with lots of different things at the same time, try and bring them together Speaker 2: (15:15) And being able to relate to people. It was, it wouldn't be a brilliant training and being able to be on every level and, and talk to people and communicate and, you know having this wealth of knowledge from all of these different disciplines and science areas, it must be very, you know, like to have that broad spectrum integrated approach. I think, you know, I wish there were more doctors available in New Zealand. There was, you know, we were starting to see more functional and integrated practitioners coming out and then you've got, you know, your, your whole health coach coaching in different areas. But it's a, it's a, certainly a changing world. And I'm hoping that there was going to be some change hopefully in the mainstream. Speaker 3: (16:02) Yeah. I mean, I've put up a little plugin and I may about those an organization called Amer the Australasian integrative medicine association, which is a mix of both doctors who do integrative medicine and also other health practitioners. And so on their websites, you can often get information about integrated doctors around New Zealand and Australia. Speaker 2: (16:25) Fabulous. That's a really good tip. I'll put that in the, in the show, Speaker 3: (16:30) Dub, dub, dub, amer.net.edu, but New Zealand. Speaker 2: (16:35) Okay. Well, we'll check that out. Cause you're getting in all sorts of lists of people. Now let's go a little bit into hyperbaric and I wanted to sort of touch on today. Some of the possible treatments for brain injury whether that's, you know, from stroke or traumatic brain injury or you know, concussions or aneurysms, in my case with mum your, your experience with hyperbaric in the, the medical grave facilities, I've had a mild hyperbaric chamber. My mum who might listen, sort of know my story with my mum. Four years ago, we had this disaster after three months in hospital, we've told, you know, put her in a, in a hospital level care facility and she'll never do anything again, she's major brain damage. I found hyperbaric on the internet and I managed to get a a commercial dive company that let me have access for a while. Speaker 2: (17:38) And then I had such success there that I ended up buying a mild hyperbaric chamber and installing it and out in their home and put her through she's had over 250 sessions now at 1.5 atmospheres that combined, and that, wasn't the only thing I did. And it ended up being an eight hour protocol every day that I sort of put together from pieces from functional neurology and nootropics and epigenetics and functional genomics and really diving deep for the last four years into the science and doing what I could, you know, it was either do everything I can or lose my mom. Those were the two options. So I was desperate to get her back. And on that journey, I've, I've hyperbaric is so powerful. His has so many things that it can be really good for. What, what are your experiences where that and the work that you did in the hospital and what it's actually recognized for versus what it overseas, perhaps as being used for two different things, aren't they, what's your take on that Speaker 3: (18:51) Sort of conventional set of indications for using hyperbaric? We still hospitals use we only have two hospital hyperbarics in New Zealand and one in Christchurch and one in Devonport which is really the Navy one rusty open hospital used us. Other than that, they're all private ones. So the hospital ones really is the history they came from. They came from a Navy based history for treating the bins really, or in the ancient days, you go back a hundred years, a case, some workers, which of the people that put in pylons for building bridges on the go of the water, they had to put the pylons in and they would get the bins and the bins. It was because when they came up, they were in pain and they were bent over because they were having gobbles coming out into their spine and their muscles. Speaker 3: (19:49) So yeah, the hospital based ones are really a very strict set of criteria. Like as I said, the bins various forms of severe infection, gangrene infections a few other conditions like carbon monoxide poisoning, possibly cyanide poisoning. But there limited number of conditions. It doesn't include brain injury. It doesn't include strokes. It doesn't include neurodegenerative diseases. It doesn't, Incruse clued fibromyalgia, a whole raft of things where we now realize there's reasonable evidence that it has some impact. One of the troubles with medicine is you'll know, is that it relies on this gold standard thing called a randomized controlled trial, where you have to do a very difficult process of having a placebo group and a treatment group. And for doing that, the hyperbaric is a nightmare because to try and have a treatment that isn't a treatment that looks like a treatment is quite hard. Speaker 3: (20:59) A lot of the work that's been done is kind of on the edge of how good it is. So most of the research we tend to see about is where we've used it lots of times and have said, ah, this seems to be working it's anecdotal it's case series. And there are some great researchers used, you'll know, like poor hearts in the States and so on. And to give some credit, the Russians have been doing it for much longer, but a lot of this stuff is unpublished. So there's a huge amount of volume of work going on around the world. And now one of the best units is in Israel. They've got some great work going on there. So, but these are the kind of these are the people going outside, the normal bubble of what's accepted as, okay. And yet they're getting good results as far as we can tell until you get that ask TT of gold standard, the conventional systems unlikely to change, that's the problem. Speaker 2: (22:02) And the, the having, you know, the randomized control trials is just not going to happen. And something like hyperbaric that hasn't got a patentable drug, realistically, the costs are too high aren't, they, Speaker 3: (22:14) It is high and there have been some trials, but they nearly always stop at 20 treatments. That that's the number that they stop at. Yeah. That's, it's kinda like I'm saying you've been on a drug per month and let's see how it's worked is it's kind of that way of thinking Speaker 2: (22:35) The genetic shifts happening, right. Speaker 3: (22:37) 200 hours of training as a whole lot of things that aren't going to happen in that time period, or they are, it's going to be fairly mild, not, not as far as you could. And as you know, one of things with the poor hearts researchers, he kept doing spec scans and checking up on patients and he found that they were still improving at 80 treatments, still improving. I mean, Hey, so we stop at 20 with our RCTs. It's not a great place to design. Is this working or not? Speaker 2: (23:08) And, and, you know, I mean, I know with, with mom I've yeah. Like I said, put her through 250, you know and I still continue to see improvements and I do it in blocks now, and then I give her a break from it. And it's in those breaks when you often get the next level of, of improvement. Speaker 3: (23:27) I think that is the epigenetic effect probably saying, Speaker 2: (23:32) Yeah. You know, to fix apparently 8,000 genes that can be influenced by these epigenetic shifts. And it's, it's, it's I like going to the gym, you know, I'm not going to go to the gym and then three weeks time out looking like taught. So they got, or, you know, it doesn't happen that quickly, but the NGO Genesis the inflammation, the STEM cell production, certainly at the higher or lower pressures they happen over time. Do you see also a benefit and stacking it for the ones who have a better word with other protocols? So, so other things like ozone therapy, for example, or P myth therapy or anything else that you find beneficial combining? Speaker 3: (24:23) I think, I mean, I would say yes in a, in a clinical sense of experience, but I couldn't say that there are trials with trials to say, like to have only one or two variables. They don't want to throw a whole lot in at once. You agreed, I would start probably with nutrition and there are a number of nutrients, which you know about that you can throw into the equation. I think as auxiliary treatments my particular interest at the moment is photobiomodulation, it's using laser treatment. Speaker 2: (24:56) Oh, I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about photos. Speaker 3: (25:01) So I think this to me is an up and coming thing. I've spent the last two or three summers going to a conference in Germany, a laser conference where some of the, the experts get together from around the world. And they talk about these things. I've also been to one in Australia last October. What, what we're now what we've known about. Okay. Let me tell the curve. Speaker 4: (25:28) Okay. Speaker 3: (25:30) Phases. We're not talking about cutting lasers, which are where you focus the beam to a point. So drill holes and things like James Bond. You know, that's not one of those, okay. We're talking about parallel, light photons. That is they're going side by side. So they're not drilling holes in you. And what happens with that? And there's a lot of great research, and this is where there's far more research out there than most people know about, because unless you're interested in this field, you don't go looking for it. I've got quite a big database now looking at all this stuff. And what we w one of the things that, that does, it does a whole rock to things a bit like hyperbaric. But it particularly affects the mitochondria because your mitochondria are the little components in every cell of your body, pretty well, that produces energy in terms of ATP and NADH as well. Speaker 3: (26:27) And those mitochondria, well, if we go back a little bit in time, those mitochondria, I actually what's called proteobacteria in the ancient of days, they were bacteria that had been incorporated into you carry out excels and also the cells, because they needed a bigger energy source. These provided the energy. So we became part of the place, if you see what I mean. So the interesting thing about mitochondria in their rules are what we call chromophores, which are proteins that react to light because that's how the bacteria actually got their energy originally, like plants. They were converting sunlight into energy. Okay. So how about how mitochondria respond to light at different frequencies? So different frequencies do dislike your different chemical reactions in the mitochondria. What so that's one little pack to hold onto it. And when that happens, a number of things happen. Speaker 3: (27:31) One, you get obviously the ability to produce a whole lot of repair mechanisms get stimulated energy mechanisms get stimulated. You turn off excessive inflammation, a whole lot of things you want to happen happen by getting your mitochondria to work properly. And in fact, one of the concerns that even about getting older and aging is that our mitochondria are not functioning properly, or we have less salt. It is the basis of aging really isn't it? Mitochondrial dysfunction, certainly one of the big, big keys. So different frequencies will do different stimulate different components. So we now know with lasers, we use different colored blazers to get different effects. However, the big problem is that if you try and print, since you use blue or yellow, the penetration is very small. So, but as you go towards red, you get more and more penetration. Speaker 3: (28:30) And what most of us now use is infrared. Infrared is the most penetrating of all colors. And what you can now do is, is get lasers that will penetrate right through bone, even through the skull, into the brain very effectively. I can give you a story if you want a story. It depends on what, what got me really interested in this area was another bit of serendipity where a number of years ago a patient in Oakland well, it's man in Oakland phoned me. I said, look, my wife has got this terrible thoracic vertebrae, vertebral abscess. So several vertebrae and unless she has continuous antibiotics she gets very unwell and in a lot of pain. And so she'd been on antibiotics for 18 months and every time she stopped it, it flared up badly to the point that they said, look, the only next thing we can do is do an operation where they go in through the past the lungs, through the anterior approach, which is to scoop out the dead material and pass and try and rebuild the spine, which is a dangerous operation horrific. Speaker 3: (29:53) And so the husband who was not an entrepreneur, he had did some research. He's a very bright guy and he came across hyperbaric oxygen. And so he found me because I, at the time was the only person with a high pressure, private hospitals refuse to do anything. That's fine. When in doubt we started treatment and we were part way through the treatment. And he came in to me and he said, Hey, Hey Tim, what do you know about lasers? And I said, well, not a lot, really. And it's developed, have you seen these papers? How power lasers at certain frequencies will kill bacteria, including staphylococcus, which she had. Wow. I thought, wow, that's interesting. And I read up on some papers and I then researched more and I came back to him a day or so later and say, Hey, look, you're right. This looks quite promising. Speaker 3: (30:50) He then said to me, okay, look, you find me the right laser. And I'll get it here in three days from anywhere in the world. I thought, wow, that's a good, I haven't been asked to do that before. So I found this one in the States, which was 25,000 U S wow. He had it there in three days. Boom. Wow. And we just started treating with both. And the long and the short is after two sets for treatments, she has been able to stop all her antibiotics and has stayed role for the last 18 months, two years while having any problem, it's amazing basically, and the MRIs improved and everything's, you know, there's new bone growth and so forth. So it just gave me that insight of, wow, there's so much information out there. Why didn't I know about it. So I got to know about it. Speaker 3: (31:42) I've been to these conferences. So now I'm starting to use a similar laser to the one he got just by the way, anyone who wants to get one, I found that his was actually made in China and I got it for a third, the price, what was it called? Because I'd love to have a look into that myself. Yeah. So it's a, it's a nice, it's a classical advisor. So you don't want to play there ladies as have class one to four and four is the most powerful, so you've got to be married. Yeah. So you've just got to be careful. Don't China in people's eyes and things like that. But anyway, so I've been using this for a number of different situations and there's some great research, randomized control trials of various things. One of them, which I found quite amazing is using it to depression, where they showed that if you did the left frontal area that in a randomized controlled trial, they improved similar to drug treatment. So there we go. Speaker 2: (32:46) Is that something looking at the vitamin D pathways or something like that? Or is it, Speaker 3: (32:53) I don't think so. No. I think it's a separate effect on we know from, in terms of depression also that often it's, so their frontal area on a QEG that's the main area, or if you do a functional MRI. And so it's just that, that was the area of this one to work on, to improve its functioning. So the thing with the laser is it's simply trying to restore a normal cell function as best it can. Speaker 2: (33:18) Is that laser available? Like, can you as a nonmedical professional get one of these, I mean, this gentlemen Speaker 3: (33:27) Far Mark Palmer exciting because a lot of this work's been done with the sort of laser that I would have the cost for, but then I'm realizing that low level laser treatment, L L T low level laser treatment, which is class three, but even on art seems to work. And what, when I say that, believe it or not is that this is something that's in the usually 50 to 500 milliwatt versus I'm using 15 Watts or 15,000 milli Watts. So what we initially thought is Hey, how can that possibly get through the skin, the underlying tissue, the skull, and into the brain and that level of power. It just didn't make sense. And yet the trials showed that it does. And what we now realize is that the skull, when you look at it with very high powered electron microscopes sections actually has this lattice works of tubules going through it, which the light can probably pass through. Wow. Because otherwise it just didn't make sense that something could hit this solid bone and still get through when, if you did it on the, on something similar thickness without those channels, it wouldn't so that, but anyway, so low level lasers are looking very good at the moment and they're much cheaper and much easier to use different ones. Speaker 2: (35:06) Yeah. I've got I've I've got two from via light. The 16, yes. I've got the two ones that go up up the nostril at the nasal ones at the, what is it? The eight, eight 55 or something in him. Speaker 3: (35:21) That's the nanometers. So that's the actual wavelengths of which is infrared. But then they piggyback onto that they what they call modulator. So that I think the one I've got the neuro one as well, which is still the 40 Hertz one. I haven't got that one, but 10 Hertz one. Yeah. That's the one that goes across the skull. Is it doing that? It's the actual, so what, this gets much more kind of exciting in a way, from my point of view, if you get, if you're excited by tech technical things, is that they, the wavelength of the infrared, which is the 800 to 800 to a thousand nanometers, roughly yes. Infrared that wavelength is what is going through into, in this case, the brain what you can do is you can pulse that process and that then becomes a frequency that's received by the tissue. Speaker 3: (36:24) So to some extent, the wave length going in is doing one set of things. And then on top of that, you can what I call piggyback, but the correct name is modulating the, so that you get a frequency, which has different effects. Now I'll give you an example a year or two ago a patient who was a local barista fell off his mountain bike and did the usual over the handlebars, hit his head, got concussed and tried to go back to work, but he is it problem with it. He had a cognitive deficit where he couldn't tolerate much noise people or anything, as soon as there was a lot going on his brain sort of short circuited, he couldn't think. And as a barista, that didn't work, he couldn't interact with people. So he had to stop working and this went on for months and he wasn't recovering. Speaker 3: (37:24) So he came to steamy and I said, look, okay, we'll use the laser. And we did a few sessions without obviously much improvement at what we call a continuous rate where it's just the infrared process. But then I looked at some of the research and I thought, what I can do on my laser, I can actually put in any frequency I want, I can change it. It's a sort of fairly clever one. And I, so I put it at 10 Hertz frequency that session from then onwards, he just got better and better and better and went back to work and he knew it the next day. He'd said, look, I'm so much better just from that one session once we did the 10 Hertz. So what we're understanding now, there's a lot of research going on around the world here. The guy cut in the States called Michael Hamblin. Speaker 3: (38:15) Who's one of the sort of gurus of this, but also in Australia and in Tasmania, interesting enough, they're doing a whole load of research. Look at these frequencies, looking at what's bears, looking at what how much you need and what they're finding. It's a little bit like hyperbaric. When I started doing hyperbaric, we used very high pressure as well, partly because we're treating divers, but a lot of the therapy was based on two to 2.4 atmospheres treatment and everything, as you know, what, what requirement is actually, some of the lower pressures are better for certain situations restore brain function. And they're finding that with the lasers, you don't necessarily have to hammer it in hard with a very high level. It's more of about the subtleties of the right frequencies, the right dose, the right evidencing. So this is where a lot of work's going on. I don't think we've got all the answers by a long way, but I think it's a very exciting field risk, low risk, you know, very low risk. What we do know about, as you're saying these lays, this sort of laser is pretty well without risk providing you don't look at it. And with the sort of laser I've got that if you hold it in one place, it gets too hot. So there's a heat element. Whereas the low level that doesn't happen, they using led lights now instead of laser. So Speaker 2: (39:43) I saw one just yesterday when I was doing some research on tinnitus I've forgotten the name of it, Luma meat or something like that. Laser therapy that they're doing the doctor in Australia was doing it for the inner ear to regenerate the hears on the inner ear to help, you know, tonight as suburb sufferers and his disease suffers. And then we're getting lots of success with that. And I certainly, you know, when I heard about it and did some, some research on it for mum, I think it's been a part of her recovery as well. I only had internet-based the nasal ones and I had one at the 600, the 600 in him and the other one at the eight, eight 50. But I'd like to look into this more. It seems to be a lot going on around frequencies general, whether it's light frequencies or PEMF pulsed electromagnetic field. Do you know anything about the PE EMF at all? Speaker 3: (40:42) Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really exciting area. It's it's, to some extent it started off with someone called Royal rife in the, in the States. Do you know, do you know about him? He's a, he was a doctor back in the 1930s, forties, fifties. It was really quite a brilliant doctor, but actually ended up in a sad situation because, well, I'll come to that. So he started looking at how frequencies could be used in medicine. And what he found is that by using, he had a cathode Ray tube in those days to produce them. And he also developed at the time, the most powerful microscope light microscope that existed a very intricate complex microscope that allowed him to look at cells while they're alive. What's called dark microscopy, which was very new at the time. Speaker 3: (41:43) And what it could do is look at cells and then the mom with his catheter, gray different frequencies and see what happened to them. And what he found is that he retained some frequencies and see different things. So he kept saying, you know, if you're trying to kill this by this seems to be the right frequency or this cancer, this frequency seems to be the right frequency and did a of research over a years and started getting some really quite astounding success with these patients. And a number of his close friends started their colleagues. We started using similar instruments and again, started doing very well until the FDA got winded at all. And they came in and Congress skated every part of his equipment that he had, and he was left in ruins. But and yet there's a huge amount of information left behind about what he was doing. And so a lot of the ideas of different frequencies for different illnesses came from his early work. Speaker 2: (42:49) That's right. I do remember that story now. And there is a few of his machines that have been Speaker 3: (42:54) Absolutely. So there are some original ones possibly when they say original, it's really hard to know because we don't know really what the regional ones, cause there's some sort of stronghold by the FDA got rid of them, but there's also some very modern versions of them now, which are computerized, which obviously he couldn't do. But so just to say that I think the electromagnetic field concept I mean, we're, we're in a very low electromagnetic field when we're not around other gadgetry and we're inside the field of the earth, which, you know, the Schumann frequency, which are an important frequency that have been there since, you know, we evolved. So they are part of our evolution. So they're part of what is normal for us. And so those frequencies are quite important frequencies. When we start coming in with very set frequencies, like 50 Hertz for electricity and all these other things, we're actually interfering with a whole normal ability to stay in homeo homeostasis, to some extent. Speaker 2: (44:06) And this is where, yeah, the EMF side of the argument, or, you know, the, the problems that we're possibly facing with, with CMS, it's from all our devices and 5g coming, goodness knows what's X gonna do. And PEMF is very different though. It's using the right frequencies Speaker 3: (44:24) That's and it's also using the therapeutic way. And by and large, in, in at a low level, rather than a level, you don't necessarily, again, have to use these massive magnetic fields to get the effect that you want. You can use really very subtle ones. Speaker 2: (44:39) And again, it's working on the mitochondria, I believe from the research that I've done, it's actually having an effect on the mitochondrial health and function. And I, I just, I wish we had a, I wish everybody could have access to a place where we had all of these things lined up next to each other and, you know, the ones that are lower risk at least that we could all, you know, be able to use without huge costs involved in a utopia, perhaps something like that. Yeah. Speaker 3: (45:08) I think we're moving a little bit towards that and I expect, and maybe on another occasion, I'll talk about sound therapy and how the that's another component of frequency, but I, I agree you can use to CS, which is cranial electric stimulation very simple devices like the alpha STEM, very expensive, what it is that almost immediately induces a sleepy, relaxed state. Speaker 2: (45:40) Yes. Yeah, I'll be, I'll be in that one too. So yes, Speaker 3: (45:46) It's kind of bizarre that you can just put two clips. I kept on each year and start the machine. And within minutes you're feeling drowsy and very relaxed, Speaker 2: (45:57) But it's mentioned and Ben Greenfield, he's a famous biohacker and trainer out of the States and his new book boundless, which is quite an amazing book. It's got, you know, everything known to man, and then he mentions the CES and using that to, to go to sleep every night and how it's improved as her sleep. So there's just so much things that are coming. And I, and I find it really exciting if we can integrate the traditional medical model with some of these like you are doing. And it's a really exciting thing for me. And I just wish we had more access for more people. It is, you see, before I don't need any promotion because I have so many people wanting to come to me and I can, I can truly believe that because there's such a need out there. Speaker 3: (46:49) The wonderful, unfortunately there are a few old phrases in medicine. One is that medicine changes coding. When the previous generation dies. It tends to prove slowly Speaker 2: (47:04) It's hard, Speaker 3: (47:07) People vote with their feet. And I think that's what we're seeing. A lot of people are actually saying, I don't want this. I want that. Rather than just accepting what's there, that's very healthy on the whole saying, okay, I'm, I'm getting quite informed about what I think I need. I just need someone to guide me through that process and if necessary me with some of the resources. And so I think that's a very important thing. And I think by and large, it is being embraced a bit in general practice to some extent, but probably less so as you move up the ladder into secondary and tertiary care, which is a kind of specialist areas, Speaker 2: (47:48) And this is why I think it's important that you know, where, you know, want to be in the preventative space where possible, so that we, you know, are looking at things before it gets to the point where everything's taken out of your control, because you're now in the intensive care or in the hospital, some where it's actually impossible to get any of these things. And it's important that we take control and ownership. And this is what the show is really all about is, is educating people about the things that are out there and the things that they can do their own research is it's a curation. If you like of information from brilliant minds in different areas, so that we can have, these can have these conversations and open up these discussions so that we can start to realize that there is more than just a pharmaceutical model or a surgical model, which is mostly what we were offered. I mean, those are very important and very good, but Speaker 3: (48:44) Yeah, they're largely the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. To some extent they have much more difficulty dealing with chronic longterm problems. They're good for the acute and the end, if, you know, if I break my leg, I'm going straight to the hospital. Speaker 2: (49:00) Yeah. Yeah. And then you might come home and do a hyperbaric session on the way home. Speaker 3: (49:07) Most of my I'd live in it. Speaker 2: (49:09) Exactly. I would tell you if I have one that you've got, that's brilliant. Just coming back to hormone sorry. I wanted to talk about hormones in relation to brain injury. Is there something you're seeing yes, under diagnosed often with traumatic brain injuries, especially Speaker 3: (49:28) A very interesting point. You bring up in time. I should I have a whole presentation on all of this, but one of the papers I'm just kind of going to, Speaker 2: (49:38) I have to get you back on to, to take us through the whole presentation. Speaker 3: (49:43) Okay. So this is, I'm just reading from my slide now, the prevalence of hypo pituitary ism. So you put your three glands just behind your eyes and produce several homelands in mild, moderate, and severe brain injury was estimated at 16.8% for mild. So that's nearly 17% interesting, only 10.9 for moderate and 35% for severe TBI. But what that saying is that people can have interference with some of their hormone production or a relatively mild event. TBI is common. We now realize one of the big things that's only recently kind of come to is how frequent TBI and what we call MTBI mild, traumatic brain injury, and eh, from sports through to domestic violence, through to all sorts of things where people are getting minor injuries all the time. When I say all the time, several in a row or within a period of time. Speaker 3: (50:49) And it can be that I had a sort of patient just this week, for instance, had come up from Christchurch to see me who had had an injury a year ago, where he had walked into a metal bar, cause he was looking the wrong way and wasn't actually knocked out. Then when I started talking about it, he said, Oh, well, yeah. And the previous year I did that. And then I fell over and hit my head, did that. And before that, and we had this whole series of minor traumatic brain injuries, and this was a store on the camel's back because since his last one he's hardly been able to work. He can't concentrate all these things that are familiar to us with MTBI. And so it's often that kind of background of quite a few, and then something knocks you out when they're not bad words, but something pushes you over the edge. Speaker 2: (51:42) And then you start to have, well, actually a year, we he's had some consult consults with me as well. And I've it, it, I think people think that they have to have her knocked out, had a major car accident before anything is actually a real problem or if they had it. So in the case of my brother who was a professional rugby player some of the things that I'm seeing in him now, and I have permission to talk about us information are signs to me of a delayed response to brain injury and, you know, helping him work through all of those, but often you, you won't know that it was the thing that you did 10 years ago, perhaps that can still be affecting your brain or that your personality has changed because of a brain injury or your energy levels, your hormones and so on. And this is why it's really important. Speaker 3: (52:42) And I'd also add in there that that store on the camel's back of that minor injury may actually be because there are other things going on, like other toxins, whether they're heavy metals are related to what you're working and so forth. So there can be a variety of other things that was sitting there in the background and until really challenged, didn't seem to have a problem with them yet when you're challenged, you do, and you then have to deal with those as well, come right through a detox process quite often to deal with some of the oldest. Well, some of the background stuff I should say. Speaker 2: (53:26) Yeah. And so, you know, looking at like with brain injury and optimizing brain health, we need to be looking at foundational health issues as well as okay. For the fancier things like the hyperbaric and the laser and all of those, the hormone assessment and, and starting to, to educate people around, you know, systemic inflammation and the job of mitochondria and all of these aspects, which heavy metal detoxing, which is something that we should all probably be interested in. And then layering on top of it. Some of these other therapies and that multipronged approach is something that I think has been the reason that I think I've been successful with mom is that having those, those layers and then continuing to look, what is the next thing, what is the next area that I can explore to bring the next but back? And as you say, it can build on each other. And as we get older, we build more toxicity in our body from metals. Most of us have got some sort of, Speaker 3: (54:27) We don't have history. Speaker 2: (54:29) We do, and we collect it and then it starts to it's that bucket there's that we sort of manage it to here and then it overflows and then it's all sorts coming out. So let's, you know, being in that preventative mindset of, okay, I'm going to help my body detox before I perhaps get something else happen to me. You know, it can be a good, a good way of looking at it. W we've covered a whole lot of areas everywhere. Just one last question for me, an area that I'm interested in, I've just got a new kit, new ozone therapy kit. What's your take on ozone? This is something I've just been getting into the last couple of weeks and researching is it, you know, like it seems to have some of the same benefits as hyperbaric in, in a way a different process and delivery, but it seems to be quite similar in some aspects. Have you had any experience with those on, at all Speaker 3: (55:30) A bit? I'm not an expert on it, so I'll say that, but I've read a fair amount on it. And I have a colleague working for my clinic now who has a perfusion equipment, which kind of topics I think like many things, it's a double edged sword. So people, first of all, must never have agree. Those are toxic to the lungs. So the idea that, Oh, I'll just get a kit and breed. Some is the completely wrong thing to do. So it has to be introduced into the body. And that's where we run into problems. First of all, because you can put it in through various artifices yep. Other than the breathing one. And that makes it plain or it can be given and it can be given intravenously in two ways. One literally as a bonus ozone, which is somewhat, could be risky. Speaker 3: (56:36) And although those that use it say that it isn't or you can take some blood off, mix it with Arizona and reproduce it, which is the one in Germany has been done for many years now. So there's quite a lot of research from them about its use. And I think it, it has a definite role as a, as a strong antiseptic for the staff. So in terms of killing bugs within the organism it probably has an anti cancer component. The problem with when we say probably is actually getting the research done. So again, this is more anecdotal evidence but it, it has a way of re oxygen icing, very similar, I think, to hyperbaric, but also sterilizing as well, which is slightly different from hyperbaric to barricade. It has to be an anaerobic bug for that to work. So I think it does have some definite roles. I think if you're doing your run, you you're talking, it's going to be very careful Speaker 2: (57:46) The home therapy. Yeah. That's ear insufflation and rectal insufflation cupping, that type of thing. But yes. Yeah, I think, I think it's a good thing to have a few obviously need to be taught and doing some training in it this week how to, how to use it safely. Definitely don't want it anywhere near your lungs. But it, it, that dangerous side, as far as the lungs is concerned, a very good thing to have as a basic first aid for any infection that you get, you know, speak Corona even maybe they are looking into the research at the moment is if it can help with the coronavirus. And I've got a dr. Rowan coming on my show next week, who's one of the world's top experts and ozone therapies are really excited. He actually went to Africa and the Ebola crisis got shut down, unfortunately by, shall we say the mafia somewhere over the, there, when he was treating patients and treating in training the doctors and it, but it is a very, it seems to have a lot of research over a long period of time. Speaker 2: (58:56) And again I think a very interesting one to do more research on yourself and to maybe add into the, to the, to the list of things that you can do. Speaker 3: (59:08) I definitely think so. And of course, you know, for me, I would be probably if I was concerned about personally concerned about Kobe, be using high dose intravenous vitamin C, which we do here anyway. So that's part of the same. But you brought up than I did. One of the research the Germans had done in Africa on malaria was using one of the blue lasers intravenously or into the vein while taking one of the B vitamins, which so this is using PDT, which is photo dynamic therapy. So photo meaning the laser dynamic, meaning you give something which sensitizes, whatever the target is to the laser in this case, it's the bacteria, or at least in his, but it's actually the malaria parasite I should say. And they showed very definite success with doing this wow light and the vitamin B irradiation. Speaker 3: (01:00:18) I think they call that. Yeah, there's UV radiation too. So this is a this is using PDT, which is similar, but using, for instance, one of the things that I've been working with is PDT here, where we use the infrared laser with the sensitizing agent, which is called InDesign and green. It's a green dye that they eye specialists use to look at the back of your eye and cancer cells taken up preferentially to normal cells and hold on to it. Whereas normal cells pass it through within 30 minutes. Wow. So what you do is you give this an hour or two before your treatment and then shine the laser light at the cancer. And I've had one remarkable disappearance of a cancer just doing that. So again, for everybody, before I get too many times, this is an area of interest and it's cool PDT photo dynamics. Speaker 3: (01:01:25) So using light with an agent that don't and I also use an ultrasound machine and the thing that sensitizes you to Roxanne is curcumin. So and using ultrasound and because Tim was hold onto it for a long time, you can use that to, Hmm, goodness. Isn't that funny? That's without me now, they won't go SPD T so no photodynamic therapy, right? I'm going to have to look at that one. Now this is experimental. So it's research stuff. So that's not something that's out there for everyone to go and get it's something being looked at around the world. There's a huge amount of research going on in medical circles and sciences to find the right agents, the lights frequencies and so forth, but a promising area using nanotechnology to deliver the sensitizer to the cancer as well. There's a lot of very fancy stuff going on. Speaker 2: (01:02:34) Wow. This is very exciting. Well, I think we've covered a lot of ground today. Heaven. We thank you so much, dr. Tome. I really appreciate your time. And the fact that you, we, you know, we have such a great doctor in our midst and who is looking at all of these very exciting areas and integrating knowledge from all areas and having such an open approach to it. I think that's absolutely brilliant. I wish you were bit more local. It would be good. I would love to have you again on the show to talk about, maybe do a presentation and the, the the information that you were talking about the just earlier at some stage when you have time, but I'm super appreciative of your time. Did I know that you're an extremely busy man? Is there anything that you would like to say to wrap up the show or any, any final words? Speaker 3: (01:03:28) I think just I'd support the whole idea of, of integrative medicine as a. And I think that can involve a whole load of different health practitioners working together to get that model by the way, rather than just one person as the way forward to the future for getting, not just from disease to some degree of wellness, but getting to full wellbeing, the next layer up. And I think that's really where we're heading and a lot of ways through lifestyle, you know, diet, all of these different things. And to me, like you've been talking about today, what excites me particularly is the idea of using light color sound and vibration as part of that journey. I think it's fascinating. I think we're only partway there. We haven't mentioned sound yet. That's another whole area, so there's some interesting things going on to try to make that happen. Speaker 2: (01:04:21) Very exciting times ahead. I can't wait for a little bit more research to happen and to make it more less expensive in more doable for people so that they can actually get up. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. And we hope to, Hey, hope to have you on again soon. Speaker 1: (01:04:42) That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

In this interview Lisa interviews top Holistic movement and health coach David Liow of www.hm-coach.com.   Lisa and David do a deep dive into why our circadian rhythms are out of whack, what blue light blocking glasses can do for your health and sleep dysfunctions. They also look into health optimisation and foundational health principles.   David Liow completed a post-graduate MPhEd (dist) at Otago University and became a Occupational Therapy lecturer in rehabilitation, anatomy, and kinesiology, then a senior lecturer in Exercise Rehabilitation and Resistance Training.   While teaching in higher education, he kept following his passion in sports training and spent a decade working with High Performance Sport New Zealand as a lead strength and conditioning coach. This gave him the opportunity to work with a wide range of world class athletes.   Some career highlights so far are: Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns Head trainer and regional trainer for NZ Women's and Men's Hockey for several Commonwealth and Olympic Games. Head trainer for the NZ Titleist Men and Women's Golf Academy for several Espirito Santo and Eisenhower Trophy Championship teams. Trainer for numerous Commonwealth and Olympic athletes in athletics, basketball, through to swimming. Regularly speaking at FitEx NZ, Filex, Asia Fitness Conference, ExPRO, Asia Edufit Summit, and other international health and fitness events. Health coaching pop bands on international concert tours around the globe. Co-directing Kaizen Exercise Physiologists to develop a world-class team of exercise physiologists Co-founder of the Kaizen Institute of Health David says the Holistic Movement Coach Programme is the perfect vehicle for him  to live his mission and share his life's work.   He is obsessed with finding the best ways to be healthier and move better.  To balance out his obsession(s) he is also a tai chi and chi kung practitioner and teacher, and practices the lifestyle that he teaches   Findo out more about David and his work and courses at www.hm-coach.com   To get a discount on the blue light blocking glasses mentioned in this podcast use the coupon code Lisa at checkout at  https://hm-coach.com/index.php/store/   Grab your blue blocking glasses here in our shop https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/clothing-and-accessories/products/blue-light-blocking-glasses-v2-0-free-postage   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:14) Today I have a special treat for you guys. I have David Liow on the podcast from the sunshine coast, originally a Kiwi. Now David is a Legion and the fitness industry in New Zealand and Australia and Australasia. Uh, he has, uh, MPH ed from Otago university and was an occupational therapy lecturer in rehabilitation and anatomy and kinesiology. And then a senior lecturer in exercise rehabilitation and resistance training. He worked for a decade with high performance sport New Zealand and was the head trainer of the New Zealand black socks, was two successful world series campaigns. He's also worked with golfers and a number of Olympic athletes and athletics, basketball right through to swimming and he as a holistic movement coach. And today we're going to be diving into the topic of light and blue light blocking glasses. Um, something that David has developed his own range of blue locket, blue, blue light blocking glasses and why you should be interested in this. Speaker 2: (01:17) We get into sleep, uh, dysfunctional sleep. We get into, um, holistic movement and what that's all about. So a really, really interesting interview with David. Uh, before I go over to David, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available in the bookstores right throughout the New Zealand. If you're listening from New Zealand, you can grab it at any bookstores around the country or of course if you're overseas or you want to grab it off my site, I'd love you to do that. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com To do that. Um, just reminder too, we also have a regular epigenetics webinars that we're holding. Our next one is on the swings day night, but if you're listening to this podcast later, go to epigenetics.lisatamati.com for the next webinar. Now this is all about our epigenetics health program, which is using the latest in genetic science to understand your genes and how to optimize them and what's, what's the best environment for those genes. Speaker 2: (02:16) So information about every area of your life from nutrition of course, and exercise, what to eat, when to eat, how often to eat, what types of exercise will suit your genes right through to your social, your mental, your intellectual talents that you may not be aware of, what the way that your brain works brought through to the neurotransmitters and the hormones that are dominant and how they will affect your personality. So it's a really amazing insight for health program that we're using both with corporates and individual athletes and people interested in optimizing their health. If you want to check that out, go over to the programs tab on our website at lisatamati.com right now over to the show with David Liow. Well hi everyone. Lisa Tamati to hear back at pushing the limits and I am with David Liow How are you doing Dave? Speaker 3: (03:08) I'm very well this morning. Thanks Lisa. You're over on the sunshine coast. I am, which is looking quite sunny this morning and we had a lot of rain last night, but the sunny coast is a sunny coast today. Speaker 2: (03:17) That was perfect. We've already, uh, um, Rick the morning for your whole family, trying to get on the same call and waking your daughter up and getting your laptop and stuff like that. So apologize to you, to your family, but you, we've got you on here, so I'm really, really privileged to have you on. Again, Dave, you're a return offender to my, uh, podcast. Um, you were on a couple of years ago I think goes so well, but so really excited to catch up with you. And today we're going to be talking a couple of different areas and we'll probably wander off path, but today everyone, it's about light and blue light blocking glasses that you may have heard about and why this is important and sleep. Um, Dave's an expert in this area and there's actually gone out and designed his own, uh, glasses for people. Um, so we're going to be getting into all of that good stuff. But Dave, tell us what you've been up to in the last couple of years and what you do over there on the sunshine coast. Speaker 3: (04:12) So in the sunshine coast, I have a exercise physiology clinic, which unfortunately isn't shut down at the moment. So we're on a, we're doing a lot of remote work, which is why communicated well, zoom has become a big commodity here at the moment in my household. So I also mentor a group of, uh, some of the best trainers in the world, many of which are based in New Zealand actually. So I worked with that group there and take them right through their education work. I do a lot of presenting to, so I'm often in Asia and New Zealand. I spend a lot of time in New Zealand. In fact, I was in New Zealand pretty much the whole of February. Just got back in time before things went the Casta key way. Of course, I am of course a Kiwi. Absolutely. So, but I've been, I've been over here for about 10 years now. Um, but certainly, um, I still do a lot of work in New Zealand in particular and a fair bit in Australia, funnily enough. Cause that's where I live. Speaker 2: (05:08) Yeah. And you have a hell of a reputation, uh, in the, in the personal training and the fitness training space. Um, you talk to anybody who's done anything, you know, above the sort of basic stuff and they know who you are. Um, so you've got a long, long history. You are a holistic movement coach. Can you explain what that is? Speaker 3: (05:27) Absolutely. So holistic movement coach, the idea is it's more than movement and that's pretty much what they're, what the logo says. So much more than movement because what I found is, I guess I've been doing this for over 25 years now and what I've, what I've always specialized in is the, the mechanics of the body. Yep. So I look at what's connected to what, look at how the tissues work, look at how joints work, look at how people move. And that was my world. But what I found after a while is that's not enough because we're more than just joints and leavers so much more. So if you don't look after the other part, that's where the holistic part comes in. If you don't look after the whole person after everything from their mindset through to the asleep, through the nutrition, there's just no way you can, you can get your results. So you can have the best training program in the world, the best corrective exercise program in the world. But if, if your minds are, you're stressed out of your brain or sleeping, I don't care what you give someone that's just not going to work. Speaker 2: (06:23) That's so funny that you come to the same conclusion and we, I mean a lot of people have late. I think as we do more research and starting to see also when you're training somebody or two people and you're getting completely different results and you're giving them the same program and the same goals and they're the same type of person and same age or whatever and you're like, why is that person getting results? And they're not. So really being that personal spaces in that holistic looking at, cause I truly believe like our mind is so like important for healing. You know, it's not just mechanical isn't, it? Isn't just when you've got a sore back. It isn't just necessarily about the back. Oh no way. Can you explain Speaker 3: (07:03) cliques and I know you've had some speakers talk about pain as well. Pain is extremely complex. That said output not an input. So certainly when you're talking about pain and injury, there's so much going on with the brain with there. Surely some mechanical parts that can have a role. But I mean the top two inches are just absolutely vital and you know with your background only. So you know that in terms of a high performance, but you can apply that to any field. You know, I guess one of the big differences there that I've come across is we're so focused on loading people. That's been our thing. How do we train people? How do we add more load onto people that's adding more stress on the people. So, and you know, I'll talk at a conference, there'll be, you know, there might be 50 talks on at the conference, 45 of them will be about loading, how to lot people with heel bells, how to load them with power bands, how to, how to Olympic lifting. Speaker 3: (07:55) Those things are great. Don't get me wrong. And I teach those and I do those. But where's the other part about getting people recovering? Well, getting them in the right place. So one of the key fundamentals and holistic movement coach is getting people in the right place so they can accept load. And then that's a really big point of difference. So if you can get people in the right space, then you apply your load, you can apply whatever load you want and they'll be fine. But until you're in that space, you're going to have nothing but breakdown. Speaker 2: (08:24) Yeah, and this is like, this is a real mind shift because like I know you've worked with a lot of elite level athletes and you know, in, in, in my stupid career, and I don't count myself as an elite athlete, I count myself as one of those stupid stubborn ones. But that I had that mentality just go hard or go home, you know, go harder, go harder, go harder. It was always the answer. If I wasn't getting results go harder. And it took me a long time to realize, especially as I got older, that approach was no working. And how do you reconcile that for people that are in the elite space set are just used to going full bore and then that suddenly not getting the results they used to get. Speaker 3: (09:06) Yeah, it's funny, I had a conversation with a group of athletes the other day and what I normally find is you are the classic woman, high performance athlete. You really are most of the guys, well I always find the individual athletes work harder than team athletes. Um, ones that work in funded sports and you know, great athletes here. And this is a massive generalization, sorry guys out there who are listening to this and going, hang on when work with you, I worked hard. But you find that the individual athletes work harder. Most of the men, you need to kick up the ass. You need to hold them back. So you, you're the classic one, but you live, you got smarter as you train. And I've read your journey and how you, how you run. You're constantly there to listen to, you know, when the, when the, when the student's ready, the teacher appears and, and you know, you certainly, um, you know, you figured out some, some pretty cool stuff and you know, that's the stuff that you apply in your program now. So yeah, Speaker 2: (10:14) you know that someone like Neo because I would argue and argue and argue with him, but eventually I came around cause what I was doing was right. Speaker 3: (10:22) Hello. He was right to have it Speaker 2: (10:27) fancy that I had to, Murray was right all along. But it is, it's a really hard shift and I think, you know, cause you get away with a lot when you're 20, well you knew 40 and you're still trying to be at the top of your game or your mid thirties even. You start to have a different things going on and things aren't recovering as well as they were. And even though you're doing the same thing, it's just not more of the same to every decade. I reckon you need a complete new approach. Speaker 3: (10:56) You need to do it smarter. And I've got a guy who, um, is in, he's, he goes to the world championship, um, uh, triathlon every year and he's been doing that for, I've been working with him for the last, since I arrived here, nine years now. And he got a three fastest times last year actually. The last one was blue, which is the last triathlon event before they closed down all the events here. So he's getting faster and faster and faster and know when he sees 50, 53 now. And we had a chat the other day and we were laughing about it and he's saying, you know, my three fastest times I've been in my last, you know, my last year, he said, yeah, we were actually starting to get the hang of it now. So look we can, we can flip the age card. Look there is a part to play I'm getting on as well, but we're looking at that experience you can bring to the table there. And I'm often training with young guys and I'm not going to, you're doing it right for an old guy. And I say, you got really well for young guy. He hasn't got nearly experienced I have, Speaker 2: (11:55) but don't ever compliment them so I can find out the hard way. But there is, it just has to be done smarter, so much smarter. And you know, we all look at ourselves as young athletes and go, Oh man, I had so much raw ability there. But then you look at how you're training now and go, boy, I'm so much smarter now. If you can take the, I'd much rather have a smarter than a roar athlete, get combined the two and you've got something really special and give it time. And I think like now we're starting to crack and this is an area of study that really interests me is longevity for obvious reasons. I'm getting older, my parents are getting old and I want to keep everyone alive and healthy. So that's the focus of my study in a lot of ways. Um, and we are working things out now to slow that aging process and reverse a lot of the danger, a lot of the problems that we've caused ourselves. Speaker 2: (12:47) So, um, I'm excited for some of the stuff I've been getting, you know, reading all sorts of stuff. I'm on peptides and all this sort of stuff and just wishing I could get access to some of the stuff and try it all out cause I'm a tree blew by a hacker, you know, try everything out on your own body, see how it works. Um, and there's some amazing stuff coming in. The information that's coming, uh, down the pipeline. If we can just stay healthy long enough, we, we've got a good chance at living really long, healthy lives. I think, you know, in the next 10 years there's going to be so much change happen that, you know, good things are gonna happen if we're onto it and we know we're aware of what's coming in the space. So I'm really excited for the, you know, being able to maintain performance for longer and have, you know, health and longevity, you know, beyond the hundred. Speaker 2: (13:35) I think that that's, you know, well and truly possible. So exciting. Um, and of course too, because health has that foundation. Yeah. We call it health and fitness. I mean it has to be healthy. Then fitness. You can't have one without the other. I know you had some real challenges in the query there and when that health goes, you can forget about the other part of it cause it's just not going to last year that's still undoing some of the damage I've done to my body. I've managed to save my kidneys and get them back on track, but then, you know, hormones came into the picture and um, you know, uh, troubles in the lady department and all that sort of jazz that's not on a fix and he has a lot to unravel. If I'd done it differently, um, back then. And of course, you know, doing extreme ultramarathons brings with it dangerous. It's not, you know, it's not, um, you know, a couple of hours running around the roads. It's doing really, really at the limit things and what is a coach now, I'm always like concerned. Sometimes I find myself like being that old mother be, it's like, Hey, no, don't push that hard. Go to those lengths because you know, sometimes it's not worth it for a competition. You know, um, one of the things that I often find myself saying to people as they, you know, they, they equate, Speaker 3: (14:52) uh, fitness with health. But boy, you know, sports not about health. It's about seeing how hard you can push yourself before you or your opponent breaks. So, you know, and that is the pointy end of performance. So you know, the way you've been pushing yourself, there's, there's, that's where you've, you've got to have everything covered and that's where a lot of that approach you said about your health and getting all those bits and pieces there. Because if you can get all those, those bases covered, you have got potential to push yourself through. Well, but a lot of people don't bring that health to that, that base health to the Speaker 2: (15:26) they face table. In other words, yeah. High performance sport or extreme endurance sport in my case is not healthy in of itself. Um, and I like, I truly believe like I was extremely fit in one way. I could run for hundreds of Ks, but I was sick. And if I look at myself in the way I looked and the way my body and my phenotype, my body was presenting, I did not look healthy. I look healthier. I look, funnily enough, more athletic now because I'm not holding all the fluid and my kidneys and working again. And my, you know, I was always four or five. I was quite puffy, you know, I was quite, um, I was always a muscular build, but I was puffy and unhealthy looking. And I always sort of was carrying white, you know, and wondering why when I'm doing millions of kilometers a year. And, um, and now I know why. Cause my body was just complete in hormonal hell and adrenal hell and, and, and so I was fit, but I was not healthy. And now for me, it's all about being healthy and longevity in having foundation or health. Speaker 3: (16:36) Yeah. And bringing that to you, you runners that you're working with in your groups. That's, that's, um, you know, that's gonna make, uh, uh, people enjoy what they do, so much more in it, achieve great things. So that's the way it should be done. So good on you for learning the lesson. Speaker 2: (16:51) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then being able to share the insights. And it's funny that we both come to the same sort of conclusions. Well it's probably logical. I suppose it's also a part of the age that we're at and having that maturity to be able to not just, it's not all just about much Muchow call I go go. It's about being strategic and you know, and I look at you, a lot of young athletes that are, you know, it's all about their abs and it's all about, you know, how sexy they look and that approach has also not healthy. Like it's not going to bring healthy just cause you're like ripped. Um, especially when it comes to woman. I think, you know, like we have this, you know, the ideal that isn't actually necessarily or always a healthy ideal. It's uh, it might look good for five minutes and your beginning ideal, but it's not exactly, we should be health wise and hormonally and all of that sort of stuff. We've gone completely off track cause today was me talking. But I love talking to people like you. So let's get back to blue light blocking glasses. Um, and why, why these are important, what they do and how, how does, um, having the wrong light at the wrong time affect your health? Speaker 3: (17:59) I guess we need to kind of talk about light to start with. And you know, if you think about the foundations of health, we think about the foundations of who we are as as humans we've always been exposed to light and dark. Those are two things that have never changed. We've had ever, and the way that we've operated, well, most and most cultures is that you are active in the day. That's the time you hunt together and at night that's the time you sleep. Because as cave men and cave woman, we were the fastest beings or strongest. So if you go hunting at night, unfortunately that say with two tigers got a better night vision than you have. So that's not a logical time for you to go and do your thing. So we've always been exposed to that as a way of regulating where our systems at and where we are. Speaker 3: (18:46) Every cell in your body has a circadian rhythm. So it's Acadia means about a day. So every cell in your body knows has a certain function at a certain time. And there's a neat little Wikipedia article on this, which basically says at different times where your reaction times best and you know this yourself, you get up, you have a certain routine that you'll go through. There are times you'll feel hungry, there are times you'll go to the toilet. There are times that your your most awake, most alert times that you want to go to sleep. So we have a whole rhythm built into our behaviors. In every single cell in our body has behaviors and actions that are governed by Diana light. So this is one of the foundation rulers of how our body works. Speaker 2: (19:29) Absolutely. So, so, okay, so what we've done in the last couple of hundred years, or I don't know how long we've actually had electric life, but ever since we've had electric glide, we've tipped everything up on its ear and we now have light at night time, whereas in the caveman days, and this is where our DNA hasn't evolved with the way that we've changed our lifestyle so quickly. Um, so we were exposed to, you know, televisions and lights and artificial lights and fluorescent light and horrible, lots of light, uh, at nighttime when our bodies are producing the hormones to go to sleep, your melatonin and things like this. Um, if, if we even go back, like I've just been reading a book by T S Wiley on hormone or health for woman and so on. And she talks about the fact that back in the old days when we were only governed by Moonlight, all woman's cycled at the same time. And I was like, wow. So we used to be all in sync with the moon and, and, and like how much light male camping trips that are out there. Months. We're outta here. But isn't that interesting that we, you said we used to be completely governed and this is, you know, back in the cave man days by those cycles of day and night and now are who is so, um, you know, bombarded with other types of light that are all about cycles, have now become individual. Speaker 3: (20:51) They're that light exposure. That's a better message. That's a, that's a great point because we used to have real light and real dark. So if I'm looking outside now, it's a pretty sunny day here. Um, so lights measured and what the units called a lax. And ALEKS is the amount of light put out by a candle when it's one meter away from you. So that's one Luxe. So, um, if you're looking at Moonlight, we'll go with Moonlight. Moonlight is around maybe 0.5 to one Luxe. So it's a very light amount of light. Well, it's a very small amount of night. So if I'm looking at a room, let's say you're, um, soft lighting in a, in a bedroom that's 50 Lux. If you were sitting in your room, you're in your dark room. That's not a dark room. That's 50 lacks. And what's happening now is with all the artificial light. Speaker 3: (21:38) And um, for me, I live in the suburbs so my neighbors have their light on it. It puts a, you know, I can, if I walk outside I'll see that. So we're not exposed to real dark. Our darks not dark, right. If we flip it the other way too, our light's not light. So I'm looking outside at the moment. I've probably got 50,000 Lux of natural sunlight out there. If I'm sitting in an office though, I've probably got 300 Lux. So when I'm in day sitting in my light, I'm not sitting in real life. And when I'm at night, I'm not sitting in real dark. So now we have 50 shades of gray thing going on at that movie. We've got that all the time. So we're not seeing real dark and real life. Some of the people that probably, well hopefully watching, listening to our interview today, um, they may get up in the morning, it might be dark where they are too. Speaker 3: (22:29) They might flick on a light bulb, they'll hop in their car, they'll go to their office underground, they'll go to their office where they'll sit in their cubicle all day with their first flight. They can't get out for lunch, cause are busy. They'll come home by then it might be getting a bit dark too. They'll go and they'll sit in front of their TV. So I get no exposure to real dark or real life. And boy that is a foundation for how our body operates. You get that wrong, you miss that up. Um, you can get a whole range of interesting symptoms. Every system, every cell in your body is affected by that. So we're at see where it goes. Nobody knows, but it's not going to be good. Speaker 2: (23:06) No. And this is, it fixed. So many systems like we have, you know, a hormonal system as a, as I mentioned before, we've got out melatonin production and now our eyes. Um, and, and also the fact that like, that's getting to the, you know, uh, the subject of, of why sunlight's important and we've all been told like, you know, don't put sunscreen on and make sure you're covered up when you go out in the sun and so on. And that is actually, we're not giving enough vitamin D. I mean, everyone knows that we produce vitamin D when we go in to the sunshine, but I don't think people know how important vitamin D and all of the processes is actually a prohormone. They're calling now, not a vitamin because it's so many parts of the body and so many organs. Everything from your, your mood, which we do understand that, you know, that produces it seasonal, um, disorder. Speaker 2: (23:56) Um, but it also like is, is a, is the building block one of the building blocks of your hormones, of your, your, uh, your mood in, you know, all of these things are being affected. Even your bone health, you know, like vitamin D is one of those crucial things. Um, and we can supplement with vitamin D. And I think for a lot of people that's a great thing to be doing if you can't get the normal amount of sunlight. Um, and I was reading, but yeah, we need to actually go outside and get sun on our eyes and sun on our skin. What actually happens when we go out and we get that sunlight, cause I used to wear a, I still do most of the time because I've got very sensitive eyes to light. So I've been wearing my sunglasses forever and a day outside. Why is it important that I take my sunglasses? Speaker 3: (24:44) So what are doing Mary can mean particularly for people who have sleep problems is they get some real sunlight in your eyes, particularly in that first half of the day. So their morning sun. So that's the most important time. So when that light comes through, so lights made it a whole lot of different colors. So all the colors of the rainbow, the Roy Bev thing, but typically a daylight or or, or a real real life. It's very high in blue light. When that comes through, it goes through your eyes and there's some photo of, there's some fairly sensitive ganglion cells. So there's some specific cells in your eyes which are right in your written to the there which, which sends signals to your master clock in your brain, which then sends signals out to the rest of your body letting you know what time it is. Speaker 3: (25:31) So that morning sun. So sunglasses, I've got no problems with sunglasses. If you're out in the sun all day, but getting up, you know, being in sunglasses all day, that's going to do you a disservice. So ideally you want some, some real light in your eyes. Take the 15 minutes is great, you know, thirties fifteens, but even five minutes better than nothing, right? So if you are struggling with sleep, even if you can eat your breakfast outside or get a little bit of a walking from your car to the office or around the block, getting some real sunlight that will help your brain distinguish, okay, this is daytime. Then if you can get some real dark, okay, then your brain can start thinking, okay, now I understand what time of day it is so I can start getting my cycles right. Speaker 2: (26:14) Wow, that's, that's powerful stuff. And then, and then so many knock on effects for our health and we'll do that and when we do it wrong. And you know what, um, I'm working with a few different people that are unfortunately in hospital at the moment with, you know, various problems, um, delights in the hospital. Like we were sticking our sickest, most vulnerable people under these horrific lights that are going all night. I mean, of course the nurses need to move around and see. So it's a bit of a, I don't know how to fix the problem. Yeah, jeez. Yeah, Speaker 3: (26:44) so there's the fluoro. So flouro and led lights are particularly high in blue light too. So when you're in those hospitals, um, Chang airport says another place if you wish. I'm obviously not at here at the moment, but I go and the amount of light in their places, often they're at 3:00 AM in the morning in between places. Those lights. Singles are incredibly strong and that's effectively that blue light coming from those lights here is telling your brain that it's, it's middle of the day. So I always thinking about the nurses that work in those places too. That's a know that's a real health hazard for them. So unfortunately we've got all these lights in our houses now too. So led lights are very energy efficient but also extremely, extremely powerful. So you've got a whole of intensity but also very, very high in blue light. Speaker 3: (27:34) The old school filament, like light bulbs are very low and blue lights. So the old school lights though, they do more energy. We're actually far better for your health, for your health. Wow. That's no good. No, not unfortunately not. And that's where you, you candle lights really great too. And you know, when we were thinking back to our roots, and this is, you know, if we look in the past to find out how we need to kind of operate for our health today, um, you know, fire is also very low and blue light. So sitting around a fire is actually very common. It doesn't wake you up unless you're sitting too close to the fire. That's out candle lights. Speaker 3: (28:16) Um, just on that, you know, um, a change of temperature, but before you go to bed is also another good sleep. You know, this is why when you, when you increase the warmth or what, um, or even cold would actually, well, as long as you change the temperature that you've been in, that signals to your body is a change coming at something you go to sleep. So that's another little trick and you know why? Probably sitting around the fire that doesn't have blue light and that will help you go, go and not off afterwards. That idea of sleep routines is just fantastic and yeah, you know, and you know, having a good receipt routines, fantastic. And we do this with our kids where we're grading it, you know? Yeah. Okay, we're going to get ready to go to bed now. Okay, we'll brush your teeth. Speaker 3: (28:55) Now we're going to do a story here. Okay. We're going to put on your bedside lamp. We'll turn the light down and we'll go to sleep. But when we're adults, we kind of forget about that. And you go, Oh, okay, I'll watch till the end of this program here. And it might be one big, one time you'll go to bed, might be 9:00 PM. Next one, it's 1130. It's all over the show. We don't do that with our kids. And we forget about those routines. And part of that is, is light light's a big part of that. That's the most important part of your sleep routine is getting your light source right. That's exactly right. And this is why. So you learned this and then you said, right, I'm going to go and buy some blue light blocking glasses. Yeah, I did that too. And um, you know, you go on the internet, you Google up somewhere on Etsy or eBay or somewhere and you buy something. Speaker 2: (29:41) And what did you find with those glasses? Speaker 3: (29:44) Yeah. Um, so achieve one of your, I know we um, a previous speaker you head on was talking about sleep apnea and positional sleep apnea. So look, I've always thought I slept pretty well, but when I started working on my sleep apnea and my breathing boy, I went to another level and I got quite excited about it and once I fell out of a blue light and the effects that have, I thought, man, I've got to get that right. So exotic executive, same as you. I went out and I bought about 20 pairs of glasses from, from all sorts of people. And when I did my research there, I found out, okay, I need to find out about transmission spectrum or in other words, what colors or what, what frequencies of light were blocking, uh, with those glasses. So every pair of glasses that I bought, I emailed the manufacturer and said, tell me about your glasses. Speaker 3: (30:36) What transmission spectrum are they are and what have they been tested? Most of them never even got back to me. And the ones that did had no idea what you're doing. I started thinking, well come on, this can't be right. And it didn't seem to matter what price I paid for those glasses either. Even some of the so called blue light glasses websites. They had no idea or no data supporting what they're actually doing. So what you were getting was all over the show. Sometimes I'd actually find, I'd get the same pair of glasses from, from two different manufacturers and they were the same pair of glasses, but they were totally different. I had totally different stats on them. All the lenses were different colors and they said they were the same. Speaker 3: (31:17) Absolutely. Here's an example of when I got here and I'll just put that this is what a typical, yeah, blue light glass looks like. It's got a slight orange tinge to it and that blocks certain colors. So particularly the blue is the color we want to block. And what that does is that takes away the signal to our brain that it's, it's, it's daylight. So the idea with blue light blocking glasses is to tell your brain you with them at night to tell your brain that it's not daytime. So that was a so called blue light blocking. These are cheap here. I think that was maybe, maybe 40 bucks or something off some internet site and that's mine. And if we have difference in color block the same amount of light. Wow. I completely different. No they don't because I actually ended up getting an optometry lab, um, to produce mine cause I got so disappointed with the quality of, of glasses and I said there's no way I'm going to wear these myself and if I shouldn't wear them, why the hell would I ask other people to wear them? We Speaker 2: (32:18) had as a lay person, you read the advertising material and you, you know that the science is correct. Like the, the, you know what we've been saying about and it makes sense to you and then you go and buy some and then you're disappointed because it's not doing well. You don't notice. You just think I'm doing it right. And I, and I've got it right and I haven't. So now you've got these available. So, um, I will be putting, uh, the links of course to, to your glasses and uh, in the show notes. Um, but just let us know where we came. Can we grab your glasses from? Speaker 3: (32:49) Yep. So holistic movement coaches though my company, so it's H M with a-coach.com and they are available in the store there and I'm sure if we ask Lisa nicely, she might put a coupon code in for you. Speaker 2: (33:04) We're going to do that and I'll put that in the show notes or I'd actually like to list them up on our site and drop, you know like yeah. So that people have them available. So yeah, either go to Dave's website or my website and you'll be able to grab those ones. We'll, we'll sort that out afterwards. Um, so Speaker 3: (33:21) Lisa, you were talking about melatonin before then. That's one of the things that got me really excited when I started looking at the glasses and there was one study there that kind of, I looked at it and went, wow, that's amazing. And they had two groups of people. One had a clear lens and the other one had a blue light blocking glasses lens and that it was good quality lens. It was pretty much the same as mine. Yup. And they showed the melatonin levels creeping up during the night and that's what should happen. So melatonin is, is it's basically a hormonal signal for dark. It's your body's way of saying it's dark and those levels creep up as soon as it starts getting dark and they were going the same, um, until what happened is the blue light blocking glasses guys had a much higher level of melatonin than the ones that were wearing the clear lenses. Speaker 3: (34:10) So since I were in a, they were in a, a room, which was about 150, lax, which is a, uh, and average lounge. Yep. Um, the blue light blocking glass folks had a much higher melatonin level so that we're getting the appropriate signal. But what was interesting though was after they went to sleep in the morning, the folks at block blue light had less melatonin first thing in the morning. Absolutely. Because the last thing, when you're awake, you don't want melatonin running around your body. So they wake up drowsy. So typically people who don't block blue light will struggle to get to sleep because they're not getting their chemical message from melatonin that it's dark. But then in the morning they get stuck with that excess melatonin and find it hard to get going. There are a few, one of those folks that struggle to get to sleep and also struggle to get going in the morning. That exposure to light could be a really big factor Speaker 2: (35:03) and this and the melatonin and the cortisol are related and I'm not an expert on this, but I, I started taking, cause I was having trouble sleeping melatonin tablets, you know, um, supplements and I was, you know, it was good. I was sleeping much better. Um, then I did a blood test and I'm not quite sure, you know, but my, my doctor rang me up in a bit of a panic going, you know, your melatonin levels are 10,000 times too high. Um, uh, and um, your, your blood, I think you've serum levels or whatever. It's not, you know, actually 10,000, but it was, it was a lot higher and I had no cortisol like when they, cause they did the cortisol tests and I don't know whether it was related to the melatonin or not, but since stopping the melatonin and implementing some other things to be fair, um, my cortisol levels are now back at the top end of normal range. So they're toppings. But um, so it's a bit of a uh, uh, so you're just taking a supplement of melatonin, um, can be a good thing, but you have to be a little bit careful with that as well. Speaker 3: (36:09) Melatonin's is a strange one and I used to recommend people to take melatonin once upon a time, but you know, melatonin is the only hormone that you can buy across the counter or even online and get it shipped to you. I mean, imagine doing that with testosterone or, or any other hormones you've got in your body. It's, it's, it's a strange one and it's very unregulated. So when you get a melatonin, if you're taking a pill or a capsule or drop, the dose you get is often very different from the dose that you experienced in your body too. So it's very unregulated. So you pay a little bit tricky with the brains you're using. Now what you found nearly so in your perfect example of that is your levels went sky high because often what happens is melatonin builds up and production peaks around the middle of your sleep cycle. If you were went to bed at 10 and woke up at six, halfway through that would be about 2:00 AM. So that's when your melatonin levels are really cranking. But when you take a melatonin before you go to sleep, you're going to get that peak very, very early as well. So now you're going to get a hormonal message, which is in the wrong time of that cycle too. So they can still sit up some, some little issues there. And if you're getting crazy high levels of that, that can cause you some issues. Speaker 2: (37:22) And this was only one tablet, a little wee tiny tablet. So it wasn't, you know, like overdosing or anything. And then the cortisol, which is your stress hormone, but it's one we want in the morning, absolutely was in that gutter. So I was like waking up like, Oh my God, do I have to get out of bed because I don't want, you know, there's just no get up and go. And it was just sheer grit to get up Speaker 3: (37:41) flooded with melatonin. That time there and you know, you did right cortisol as you'd get up and go in the morning. So melatonin should plumb it in the morning because it's no longer dark. It's time to get up cortisol levels. It should be the highest there to get you out of bed. So you start playing around with that system. Um, bye. Introducing foreign substances in. Yeah. You Speaker 2: (38:02) know, you can get some varied results, which you may not be wanting to do it under controlled if you're going to do it, you know, Drake that you're measuring it too though, you know, at least you know what's working for you and what's not working for you. Yeah. And, I mean, unfortunately we can't go and get a cortisol test every week or a blood test every week. So it's always a time and point. Um, but you know, and when you, because I've, you know, struggled for a long time with adrenal insufficiency, surprise, surprise, and, you know, a lot of people have high cortisol, whereas I was like, no cortisol, like not producing any hormones of any sort for everything in the gathering, wondering why, why, when I'm training my ass off, things aren't working, you know. Um, and, and starting to, you know, over the last couple of years, starting to unravel that mess and get it back. Speaker 2: (38:54) And it's not a, it's not easy and it's, it's, it's hard in course when you're going through the change changes in life anyway, and you've got all that going on. But we, um, you know, we can optimize this if we, if we, if we learn enough, if we get the right doctors, if we get the right support and this and getting our hormones right so that we stay in the best optimal ranges I think is, um, but you do need to do that under the auspices of a good, hopefully a functional doctor if you don't want to be playing around with these things Willy nilly, you know, even melatonin, even though you can buy it over the counter, can have adverse effects. Um, as a culture we're always looking for that quick fix or that pill always. I think melatonin is like step 42 and ways of getting better sleep. Speaker 2: (39:44) A good way of putting it is it is one of the tools and the cats, it needs to be done in a regulated fashion and it needs to be done a little bit carefully. And the other things are lower hanging fruit. The natural way is a better way. If we can go what it looks like looking glasses and angel. Certainly, you know, if you can sleep in a dark room, I love that temperature. The idea of temperature you had before. Get the temperature right in your room. If you can dim your lights as well and try and keep away from bright lights at night, that's got to help. And look, something's better than nothing. But you know, certainly if you are really struggling with your sleep and you want to get that back on track, working with light and dark is number the number one thing I work with with sleep disturbances. Speaker 2: (40:25) That's the first thing I'll look at. Yeah, absolutely. And then, I mean we had that lovely interview last week with James Morris on the show. Um, it might be a couple of weeks back by the time people hear this. And that's a really important one to to go and, and understand. Cause you know, like someone like you, you said you have positional sleep apnea. Um, you know, you are extremely fit and extremely, you know, uh, into health. And most people are quite amnio with people who are overweight. To people who drink too much, people who you know have diabetes perhaps or, or those sorts of co-morbidities. Um, how did you discover it? If you don't mind sharing and what, do you have to be on a C pap machine? Or are you just doing the mild sleep apnea, which a lot of us will have by the way? Absolutely. So I've always been a snorer. My father's a snore and my brother's a snorer. Yeah. So, and it comes down to airway. So when you sleep, part of sleeping is, is relaxation. And that's where the repair happens. That's why we spend a third of a bedroom, a third of our life there. But, um, when you're, when you're relaxing, part of the issue too is that your, the muscles around Speaker 3: (41:34) your, um, your jaw relax as well. So if you're lying on your back, and particularly what that means is the tongue can come back and it can block the airway. The railway is only about as thick as a straw. It's a, it's a very small thing. So, particularly if you have a jaw that doesn't sit very far, if you don't have a big, unfortunately like my jaw comes back and shuts off my airway and I'm the victim. It's like someone's smothering me in the night so that that causes snoring, but also, um, it can totally block my away and wake me up. So, um, yeah. So I ended up measuring a lot of sleep and I looked into measuring sleep. I did that for looking at every device under the sun. And um, I tend to use this one here called a night shift. Okay. Speaker 3: (42:19) See on the picture there, you can actually put it around your neck. That's the idea. And that's a medical grade. Um, sleep, sleep measuring device without people going into a sleep lab, it's the best, um, the best device you use. And so here we go. You just pop it off you go. And basically what I ended up doing is measuring my own sleep, then hundreds of people after that. Then teaching lots of people how to do that and how to analyze that and figure out what's going on with people's sleep. We can we get those, you know, it's a medical one, so not easy to get by because not everybody wants a full blown stuff. Speaker 3: (43:01) So what we actually do with my guys and holistic movement coaches that I train, they're actually trained to actually, we actually hire them out. We get people to actually click the data, they send them back to us, and then we actually take them through what the data means. So, wow. Yeah. You've got your watches that you can wear, which you know, which can give you some sleep sleep. That's called actigraphy. And the idea is you put your watch on your wrist. When you move your wrist, it means you're awake. When you're, you're not moving, you're asleep. That's probably a little bit too simplistic. That's kind of looking at, you know, looking at the Speedo and your car saying, okay, that's how my car is running. There's a lot more going on on the surface. Just that one reading. So, yeah. What a, what a, what a sleep study does. Speaker 3: (43:45) And what they do in a sleep lab is I'll put, um, that leads onto your head looking at your brain activity. They'll look at your breathing, they'll look at your heart rate, they'll look at movement. So the movement, the actigraphy, Pat's only one small part of it. So what a, what a night shift does is it actually attaches around your neck because if you're moving your, your neck device on the back of your neck, you're awake. So it's much more accurate for a staff, but it also measures snoring as well. So snoring, volume and also any position you're in. So what I found is when I'm lying on my back, well that's the time we, my airway is mostly when I'm laying on my side, it's not so bad. So, um, and there's also a sitting on there where you can actually get it to buzz you when you're on your back so you can use it to retrain sleep on your side, which is what I did. Speaker 2: (44:33) Wow. Okay. So, uh, I'll be really interested. Maybe we can talk afterwards where we are, uh, get work. Cause like, um, I've got Jesus as a friend and so on. Um, but convincing your father or your husband to go and have a full on sleep study is one thing and they won't. Speaker 3: (44:52) That's what we found as well. So if I'm going to measure something, if I'm going to do something, I want to do it the best I can and certainly, and look, the aura ring is also pretty good at getting orders on your hands. So you move your hand around, kind of give you some misleading data there. The night shift is the most accurate way I've found of measuring sleep in the home. That's great because if you want to change sleep, I mean measure it so you can measure it to manage it. There's also some questionnaires which I'd really recommend and we get our guys to fill those in as well because we want to kind of find out how they're feeling as well and also getting an idea of their sleep habits, but there's no lying. The amount of data that comes out of that is incredible. I've had some people really change their sleep habits around once they see what's going on. Speaker 2: (45:38) Oh gosh. Yeah. When you put them under the data, cause everyone's like, ah, I'm okay. But I was like, you know, and I probably shouldn't say as well as, you know, listen to my husband sleep the other day and he like, he stopped breathing for like three minutes. I got the, I actually got the thing out and I timed and I was like, Holy crap, he's not, you know, and then he would go back onto his side and then he would, you know, do that. And I'm like, yeah. Speaker 3: (46:01) Oh, Speaker 2: (46:02) and he's not overweight and he's fit and the next, you know, like he's, he's like, okay, how can I have a problem, you know? Um, so I'll talk to you after this thing, but can people virtually contact you in, in, in, um, do that or is it has to be an in person thing? Speaker 3: (46:17) No, we do that remotely. So the idea is, you know, you don't have to come and sit in the lab and get hooked up with a hundred leads around your hand. We send it out, you wear it. We get a couple of nights data to make sure we've got a reasonable, we want a reasonable, um, if there's such thing as an average night's sleep, you have some questionnaires as well. You send that back to us, we get all the data off it and then we remotely, we take you through and go, okay, here's what's happening with your sleep here and here's some of the patterns you've got. And just like you'd have a training program for your running. We have one for sleep as well, so you can get your sleep more on track. I'm doing that, I'm getting that for the family, Speaker 2: (46:54) you know, like, um, the reason I had sleep apnea and GS on last week was because it saved my mom's life. It's that important. You know, when you have a stroke, especially, you need to get a proper full Braun, you know, sleep tests done. If you've had a brain injury. It's, this is something that's really, really under no, and it's just not knowing that this is a problem, uh, in the general medical world. Um, and I'm like, that's why like I do not believe my mum would be alive if I had not gotten a sleep apnea machine and got a C pet machine. That was the first step. Speaker 3: (47:27) I think there's a lot of really good that goes on in sleep and particularly around the brain. So you know, there's a lot of prices where they, where you're there, the little cells are going around cleaning up all the debris, they're cleaning out the brain also cleaning out the psyche as well. So if you can optimize sleep there, boy, it make such a big impact on, on people's health and particularly if they've had, um, central nervous system damage. Yes. In fact, that was one of the, when I first put these glasses out, I actually gave a talk, um, to a group of physiotherapists and um, some of them were working civically with concussion and they looked at the stuff and they went, Holy cow, can we try all these? And, and with our patients, I said, yeah, of course you can. And data's got back to me, said, wow, the different sets making is incredible because you know, think about when you get central nervous system damage, it's hard to filter in with all that information that's coming at you. And if you're getting abnormal light signals all the time, particularly at night, um, that's another stress your body has to play with. So often they were getting some great results with people sleeping better, feeling a lot better. Is that key with concussion types, um, and heat injuries, uh, by using blue light blocking glasses. Speaker 2: (48:40) Yeah. And this is why we're having this conversation because this is going to go in my new course on brain optimization and longevity because this is a big piece of the puzzle for people who have suffered, whether it's strokes or concussions or, uh, you know, even for people who have vascular problems like dementia or Alzheimer's I think is all foundational health things that we need to be addressing. And those people especially, Speaker 3: (49:02) and sleep is the, you know, there's, there's, there's is the foundation of our healing, our self healing. So you get that right. You know that that's, that's money for jam and I'm looking for these fancy things and he's got an inbuilt system. We've got all these inbuilt systems, we just need to use them and tap into them. So what you've got, you've got those sleep cycles, which I'm sure has been covered elsewhere, but you've got your non-REM and your rim sleep. So your REM sleep is when you notice that your eyes were moving a lot. But that's the one where you get your dreams a lot more. So what happens, you get cycles of non-REM and REM sleep throughout your night when when you first go to bed, your non-REM cycles are longer than your rim cycles. But as those no cycles repeat over and over again, as you keep into your sleep, by the time you're getting closer to the morning, you will rim, sleep, other bigger parts of the cycle. Now the non-REM sleep is really important for physical repair. So if you've got, if you've got some, if you've got clients who are ill or have physical illness that's really important, they get to bed early and make the most of those, those in REM cycles. So they need those bigger long cycles at the start because if you go to bed really late, you're going to miss some of those longer, uh, in rim sleep cycles. Speaker 2: (50:19) I knew that, but I didn't know why. Like I knew that that was when the physical healing, psychological healing sort of stuff as later on, but I didn't. Speaker 3: (50:28) Yeah, that's, that's it. Right? So you've also, if you, if few have got a lot of emotional stress going on and you may have both as well, that's where it's really important to make sure you're not getting up at 4:00 AM in the morning cause you're missing that. You're missing that, that, that, that REM sleep, which helps clean out all those emotions there, the stress you've got going on. Um, and also consolidate a lot of learning processes as well. So both of those cycles are really important. And respecting where you are and which ones you need is a big determinant on probably how you should be kind of using your sleep as well. Speaker 2: (51:00) And that's like, um, so short term memory processing would be done in that phase two so that you're actually putting the stuff that you learned yesterday into the filing cabinet, so to speak. Yeah, Speaker 3: (51:10) that's right. Tidying it up in the library in a box away Speaker 2: (51:14) and the MIS, which is what happens and when we, when we go to sleep, we have this, um, what, what scientists have only recently discovered, from what I understand is that our brain actually shrinks in size and the cerebral spinal fluid comes in and does a brainwash, so to speak, and gets rid of the amyloid plaques. And so we have these beta amyloid plaques, which you may have heard from people who've have Alzheimer's. And one of the, the risk factors for people getting developing Alzheimer's over time, over a long period of time is a poor sleep because they're not washing out these, these speeder amyloid plaques Speaker 3: (51:51) disease and inflammatory process. Sleep will have an effect on every single one. Speaker 2: (51:57) [inaudible] I, I'm just doing the section in the brain optimization longevity course on uh, information and people do not get the concept. And I didn't for a long time either. And what the hiccup, I may have had this conversation with my mom yesterday cause I teach her all this stuff as I'm learning stuff and she's going, but I'm not inflamed and Speaker 3: (52:20) chronic disease. You have inflammation and I see Speaker 2: (52:22) you don't feel this type of information, man. This is on the inside. This is the endothelial linings of your vessels. This is from the brain injury, the mixing of the blood in the brain and causing inflammation. You don't feel that. It's not like, cause we all often think that our information, Oh that's when I've cut my hand and I've got that red thing around the cat. That's information. Now that is information too. But that's not the type of information we're talking about. And we're talking about systemic inflammation and there are so many aspects to lowering inflammation in their body. And sleep is a big piece of that puzzle. As with just heard and the right nutrition for your body, the right amount of exercise for your body at the right times. And all these things can help lower the inflammation levels and our systems and information is the cause of so many degenerative diseases, which are our biggest killers. Speaker 2: (53:17) You know, heart attacks or heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's cancers, even all of these have their root, one of their main things is in the inflammation process is going on the body. So if we can allow our inflammation, if we can look after our mitochondria, which has a little battery packs in the hour, each one of ourselves and help them produce more energy efficiently and not, you know, doing new, taking the DNA and things like that because of the inflammation, because of the free radicals and so on. Um, and you know, this is a topic for another 10 sessions, but that then we have foundational health and then we can do and be a lot more for a longer period of time. You know, and, and this is, it's all, it's also interconnected. So having the right sleep and wearing your blue blocking glasses and doing all these little bits and pieces will add up to longterm health. Speaker 2: (54:14) Do you agree? Brilliant. What a great summary of health. You went right from cellular health, right through to inflammation. That's a really great summary. If you've been doing your homework for this stuff, you know, and I just wish I had more brain power and I'm, you know, I'm well to optimize my brainpower to put more in, you know, so that you can understand more so that you can help more and the more you get into this world. And I mean, you know, that was just a very, um, you know, simplistic overview of, of things. Uh, and we have so complex and there's so many other things to learn, you know, immune systems and you know, God knows what, um, but it's all pieces of the puzzle. And I think when we have the attitude, I'm going to learn about my, and my health and what happens in my body because we spend ages, I don't get this, but we will spend ages planning our next holiday. Speaker 2: (55:07) What car are we going to buy and all the details of it. And we won't spend the time to actually look at what's going on in our, in our health and our body because we've outsourced that to the doctor. And I just think that that is the biggest disaster that we can do for ourselves. We can't outsource our health to any one person. We have to take ownership of our health and we have to be vigilant i

Te Whatarangi Dixon is a man with much "Mana' (The Maori word that means to have great authority, presence to command respect). Despite his relative youth at age just 30 he has twice already stared his own mortality in the face.  He was the victim of Guellain Barre Syndrome or GBS for short. Guillain-Barre ) syndrome is a rare disorder in which your body's immune system attacks your nerves. Weakness and tingling in your extremities are usually the first symptoms. These sensations can quickly spread, eventually paralysing your whole body. In its most severe form Guillain-Barre syndrome is a medical emergency and in this case is what severe and meant Te Whatarangi was months in hospital. The exact cause of Guillain-Barre syndrome is unknown. But two-thirds of patients report symptoms of an infection in the six weeks preceding. These include respiratory or a gastrointestinal infection or Zika virus. Te Whatarangi lost all control over his body and literally watched his body fail and start to die while his brain remained fully conscious. The fear, the uncertainty, not knowing if he would live or die or if he lived if he would ever have any quality of life again or be trapped in a body that no longer worked sent Te Whatarangi through a long night of the soul. But he eventually emerged. Stronger, more resilient, more empathetic and more driven that ever before. This is a comeback story of survival and of love. The importance of family and how they helped him through. Te Whatarangi is now a qualified neuro-physio and knows exactly what his patients and clients are going through. He knows the battles they face and he guides them back on the path to their goals. Heartwarming and raw this interview will inspire you and make you grateful for the blessings you have.    Te Whatarangi's greeting to you all in Maori   Ko Putauaki te māunga Ko Rangitaiki te awa Ko Mataatua te waka Ko Ngāti Awa tōku iwi Ko Te Pahipoto tōku hapū Ko Wayne Haeata tōku matua Ko Kay Mereana tōku whaea Ko Blair Te Whatarangi Dixon ahau   I have come from very humble beginnings. I am a product of my whānau (family) and I would not be the man I am today without them supporting me every step of the way. Everything that I am and everything that I strive to be is a reflection of not only myself but my whānau. I represent them and I hope to make them just as proud as I am of them. I was diagnosed with Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) in 2014 and again in 2019 where only 1 in 100'000 people are diagnosed globally with a 1% chance of contracting it twice. Always an optimist and through my journey of self-discovery having faced the possibility of my own mortality, I am now proud to call myself a Neurophysiotherapist. My journey has been challenging yet unique and I wish to share my story with the world in the hope others feel inspired and to allow their light to shine.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/ Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option. Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) You're listening to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati. Today I have a guest to Te Whatarangi Dixon from Rotorua who is an amazing young man. He's a neurophysio something I'm very interested in. But he is also a victim of the Guellain Barre Syndrome. Very hard to say. We'll call it GBS. Now this is a syndrome that's a rare disorder in which the body's immune system, attacks your nerves, weakness and tingling in the extremities are usually the first sort of symptoms and the spread right throughout his body and it can be fatal. And he was certainly in deep die trouble for many weeks in the hospital and he shares his story today and his comeback journey. It's a really interesting, I'm very interested in people who have overcome the odds in comeback. Journeys for obvious reasons. And I think this journey just really that fax has been on is incredible and why he's tackled it in the way he's coped with it. Speaker 2: (01:09) He was then gone on because of this to become a neurophysio. So he's used what was a terrible thing in his life to do something good. So it was a real honor to have him on the show. I just want to remind you before we go over and talk to te there, my book is now available on audio. It's available on ebook, on Amazon on my website every which way you can get it now. Relentless. It's also in the bookshops. I had the greatest pleasure the other day when I walked finally into a shop and there was my book. So that was a pretty exciting moment. After seven weeks on lockdown, it's finally out there. So if you're interested in getting that, the book is called relentless and you can grab it on my book, my website at lisatamati.com Right now over the to the show with Te Whatarangi Dixon. Speaker 1: (01:54) Them. Speaker 3: (01:57) Well, hi everyone. Welcome back to the sharp pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with Te Whatarangi Dixon all the way over in the Rotorua. How are you doing mate? Good, thank you. Good. Thank you. Super excited to have you on the show. It's really cool. We've connected through your father in law who is a lovely man, Steven who I spoke for. He is a great man. He is a lovely man. And he just said, you've got to talk to my son in law. He's so interesting and I thought, yes, he is very interesting and I want him on my show. So today I was going to hear a little bit about Whatarangi and we're going to call them facts from here on. And and now Whatarangi is a equally a neurophysio. You're just just qualifying right now, sort of in the midst of finishing things up and getting him into a new career and job. Speaker 3: (02:49) But the reason, one of the reasons I want, I want to talk to you about that, but I also want to talk to you about you've got an inspiring comeback story. Can you tell us a little bit about GBS we, we you've had GBS twice and we're trying to pronounce it before Guellain Barre Syndrome, something like that. So yeah, it's a very big word. So we'll call it GBS and can you explain what that is and your, your journey with us a little bit and a little bit who you are for status. Speaker 4: (03:22) Yep. Okay. So my story basically starts from a little town called tickle. So that's where I'm actually from and my family is, and I grew up pretty much in the Bay. TNT. I think probably people will always think that my story is interesting is because Guellain Barre Syndrome or GBS as we call it is as 100, a hundred thousand people, I think contracted, well that's the neurological condition. And then basically a textual, your peripheral nervous system. So it's quite similar. That's how I kind of describe it to people. I'm totally on the stand that getting into the technical kind of tends of things is similar to that. You miss you miss the textural central nervous system either and GBS a textual peripheral nervous system. Wow. Cause people get what that is so they can proceed. It's kind of similar but there are differences. Speaker 4: (04:20) So I had a strength called ampersand, which is what's a text basically or your motor neurons. Annual sensory neurons. You can have different trends with the tech, just primarily your motor neurons or your sensory or I think he got five different Sharon's, I'm not, can't remember specifically about each one, but yeah, those two. Yeah. I had em send, so I took an attack my motor neurons in my, in my sensory neurons. But the potential for it to recover as higher because you have a special cell called Schwann cells in your peripheral nervous system and they can regenerate over time. So that's why if you have, if I wouldn't wish it upon anybody, but basically if you had GBS your what your and you and you were able to stop it from progressing, quite possibly, even people have, it can't be fatal. Speaker 4: (05:11) But if you at the interventions from the hospital placed on you I think within three to four weeks until you sat on told JPA starts to kind of overtake your body, you'll be lucky to recovering this quite high but post four weeks and you haven't had an intervention with they call it immunoglobulin therapy or plasma faceless where they basically take our, your white blood cells and replace it with others. Wow. so basically you'll be your pasta, your, your ability to recover. That's a lot higher with your peripheral nervous system because your central nervous system are made out of oligodendrocytes and that's what they make up are once they damage, they don't rip you. Wow. So if you about a motorway system, once you've got an issue major, such a major highway, so one roads basically destroyed, it'll never be recovered. Speaker 4: (06:05) You'll be able to actually try and tap into other areas and go off road and then come back on, wow, I want to kind of destroy their part of the road and we'll never recover. Whereas Guellain Barren Syndrom, once that Schwann cell is basically damaged, if they're forced to before the damage, its ability to, to re regenerate as higher Scwh is in. This isn't the bird Swan. Swan. So S C W H. Okay. So that's a german. SCWH. Okay. So how does it manifest itself in your body? So you've got the, luckily not the central nervous system one, but more of the peripheral. How did that sort of manifest and what were the symptoms? Okay, so for me in 2014 mindset of half the thing is they don't actually fully understand why it HIPAA or like what actually causes causes a bacteria virus. Speaker 4: (07:09) We don't yet, but they understand what happens to once it starts. What's a, what's a begins to happen. So for me how they described the words, I, I basically called a guarantee Stein bug basically a month before GBS kind of started to could have been related. I go to my body, yes. So what they, what they perceive as what happens, it's an auto immune disease. So I had discussion or anti Stein nonfiction and I recovered from that. But however, what happened is you obviously when you get sick, you build up your immune cell or your immune system starts to kick in and you build get your killer T cells and then eventually you'll have resistant T-cells to action to buy down the killer T cells. Cause they've already destroyed the bug. Yep. What's happened is in my immune system, my resistant T cells to to actually hinder and stop the killer T cells from producing and actually start to generate around the body, they don't actually start to kick in. Speaker 4: (08:12) So your immune system had all these killer T cells floating around. And then I think obviously then I just got another random cold bug about a month later. And because you had these killer cells, so floating around in my body, I'm talking kind of later and I used to help you find fully understand it's important. Yeah. And so basically what's happened is my immune cell, my immune system has decided to, they've got this new bug, these qualities are the floating around. I have no idea what to do with this new bug and all of a sudden have started to just manipulate itself and then attach in a tech my, my peripheral nervous system. So phone cells instead of that classic auto immune shoot all the goodies and the baddies at the same time. Yeah. So it spawns my, my immune system starts to attack my own body. Speaker 4: (09:03) Yep. Essentially. Yeah. And so you don't, you don't know whether it's coming from there you know, that that gastrointestinal thing or not, but quite likely that that's caused that caused this reaction in the body. Obviously when you, when you're sick, obviously you get increased inflammation, which means that increases your immune system. And so it just, just helps you like a, like a, like as if you're standing in front of her train. And so basically how mine started was I just started getting pins and needles and my peripheral, like basically in my hands and my feet. Yeah. And it slowly kind of, I started basically just getting pins and needles and it started gradually kind of coming out of my arm of my legs. And then I started losing sets on my sensory kind of went, went away first. So SABIC losing sensation. Speaker 4: (09:54) And then basically as it came up through my, through my feet and into my ankles, we have a thing called proprioception. And they basically tell us it helps you understand its joints on the stand we are in relation to space. And that's that it's to dissipate and actually kind of disappear for me. So I started losing balance. It wasn't anything wrong with my brain, it's just that I couldn't get the right signals from my feet and from the white bearings, my weight bearing joints to my brain to understand and tell my body where I was. I had that with mum, but from a brain injury. Yeah. And so she didn't know who she was away. She stopped the way the world started. Special awareness because it's very hard to explain. Yeah. So this all just started happening. I don't know why, what's happening? Speaker 4: (10:43) You just kind of just randomly came on. So I started losing sensation and eventually started losing weakness in my hands. My jaw. I just knew something was wrong. I went to the doctors. The first time when I started getting pins and needles actually seeping into a physio, like some form of nerve issue of my lower back or, or something. Cause at the time I had, I had an injury, I'm a little bit. Yep. So say me, the basically nothing happened. A week later it started getting worse. Went back to my GP. He doesn't know, he didn't know what was happening. Obviously we could have the GP and had, you know, had I had signs of symptoms, they kind of live on possibly being meningitis as well. Yeah. He's sent me into, he see me in hospital, showed away basically after their next visit. Speaker 4: (11:31) So this was two weeks after that sort of started happening. A huge and obviously because he sent me diagnosed me possibly with a hypothesis of possible, possibly meningitis. I was treated for meningitis when I got there. By winter it wasn't, it wasn't I went and had my spinal taps. Yeah, spinal tap generally for meningitis in GBS cause they do present quite similar if they, if they think so. They're trying to cross the cross all the T's. We then, and then as they actually, when I went into hospital, I started getting huge migraines. I was getting migraines and I was skinning photophobia. So I've kind of actually optimized the life would just penetrate and just give me huge headaches. So I, when I was presenting what's, you know, and that's even another sign of possibly being in Jarvis and migraines. I, however, I didn't have a rash. That was, I need public one real, something they usually would get from in a data cell. We then had my spinal tap done, went for a CT scan. And then I was isolated basically because if I'm in a ditis spread it out at this point they still didn't know what I actually had. They were just going on. You know, the signs and symptoms on me, possibly heavy meningitis skins fascination and hits the spinal tap, then CT scan. Speaker 3: (12:55) Yep. Carry on. Mum's bringing in the middle of the webcast. She always does. Everybody who listens to the podcast knows this is a key ring from Mark to carry on mate. Speaker 4: (13:08) Yeah. And then and then I'll, then they for a week nothing basically improved. So all the all the drugs that they go to me throughout the time to help me try and beat meningitis were working. I was getting worse and I started losing what I'd done in relevance to that. I was actually getting really weak, but I couldn't actually convey that to them because I started getting, you know, I started losing my, my, I couldn't breathe and I started, I get to be on a ventilation also just so much pain. So I started getting hyper sensitivity. So basically cold felt like hot hot, felt like cold, a polo felt like a waste of time. I felt like I was driving into into the beat. So when I was just lying on the bed, I felt like I was getting pulled down by gravity. So [inaudible] rotation or anything kind of going out of whack, you everything just becomes imbalanced and it might, your brain can not understand or what, and it's trying to rebalance itself. And in that process that's kind of having, it's actually being detrimental to your, to your ability to kind of actually understanding the world just cause everything. Like basically if you'll need to bombard your nurse to actually understand, you know touch smells like every foot of sensation that you can basically think of. Speaker 3: (14:27) We had for granted so much and we know that this is, yeah, something's touching my right hand or I'm feeling my left hand or, Speaker 4: (14:35) And then basically third weekend I had an MRI and then the neurologist was actually away at the time. So the neurologist said that was actually from the house and told him the hospital for us. He was a white, you ever sees on a, on a spent sabbatical at another hospital. And so the neurologist from Palm smelt was coming up two or three times a week. Yep. So he came up and he basically once they won't say best, so he thought busters, a meningitis B bike. And I started and I had an Ida, my sister in law, she found a possible link to being something more neurological because I had this window of opportunity. We actually felt, you know, everything kind of normal, a little bit full for a time. And I asked Glen to kind of do some, do some assistance on me, who's my sister in law. Speaker 4: (15:25) She's now registered, now open a hospital. Wow. and she just chose a fifth year medical student at the time and she just done some systems on me and she felt my reflex is going through. I couldn't, my sensation was, was basically gone and she just went straight to straight to my consultant. My consultant got the neurologist to come in and they're all just basically look there, make straight away any new show way that ITVS basically Australian. I went straight into HDU. I was throwing spirometry, so I actually checked around my lung capacity was gone of the migraines. They organized for me to go for an MRI just to see what type of thing my body information was. And all of my, you know, all of my CRP scans, we were just through the roof. White blood cell counts were through the roof. So they knew that your, your menu system, but they couldn't, they didn't know what was happening on it. And obviously people, it's so rare you know, you, you come across that every, I don't know, once or twice in your lifetime. Speaker 4: (16:33) Okay. So now you're, you're in the, the finally worked out does it, is this thing. Yep. What sort of a battle did you have on your hands then? I was in the battle. Basically, they're trying to save my life. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So my, my, basically my, my lungs started to shut down. I immediately went down to about 50% capacity. As soon as I went into HDU I was intubated with mechanical ventilation to the full Monte, so conscious, so my brain's still, they're not just getting migraines. Stuff's like, it's still kind of occupational life. Nothing's happening mentally. It's all just the, my physical body shutting down. I can't move. I started all like, basically I lost all control of my bowels and whatnot as well. So there was things we didn't see wise. It was just, it just, everything went away. Speaker 4: (17:29) So like a massive brain damage. Yeah, something's happened to the brain, but it's just a little bit, it's just my, my peripheral nervous system is shutting down. So I was 23. Wow. I was 20. It started 2014 and yeah, so that, that all happened aren't you baited? And they basically, they started me on what they call immunoglobulin therapy, which is basically other people's antibodies. So, and that's about $1,500 a bottle. And I had about, I don't know, I think it was a call center of over five days, three bottles a day. Sorry, I'm trying to overpower it with, with normal white blood cells. Yeah. So basically trying to combat my immune system so they're pumping and you know what white blood cells from other, basically it's basically a blood transfusion into my body to basically, it can't stop DBS, it can only spoke. Speaker 4: (18:41) So the progress of it. So like I said before, you know, these, they're four week kind of if their month window that month window to try and stop it to get possibly from being a fatal condition. So I was in the third week, halfway through the three weeks, so they just water them. And you know, I already got to the stage where basically I was a vegetable and basically I was just trying to save my life. So I was intubated, heading immunoglobulin, stuck to a wall hours days. And I was in the hospital for about three months in ICU for about a month and a half. And then I went up to just the general ward. So it was amazing. So once they open up here, but it's just a waiting game, you can't really, you can't do much, they can do something else. Speaker 4: (19:30) You can do. You just watch you just hoping that, you know, me being a young kind of 24 year old at the time, it was going to kind of, that was going to be in a box, which to me, thankfully it was. It was. Yeah. And that's very grateful. Someone under the age of basically 50, 40, 50 to get genius. Wow. cause you, have, you got, you know, I, I love diving into the body. Do you think you have a predisposition to immune and overreactive immune system? Have you even thought about functional genomics and doing some testing along that lines to see? Well, you know, I've always thought that I'd always thought about looking at basically my DNA cause but you know, when I look at my, look at my look at my family, but I look at my family history, I've got none of that in my family. No kind of history of a neurological emission. We've got you know, quite a, the only thing we probably have in my family is the Alzheimer's cancer in our family. We don't have you know, you know, really what do you call it? Systemic kind of conditions, you know, mommy and my family have died of heart attacks. I think one. Yeah. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (20:50) We've got type two diabetes, but that's not genetic. That's just, you know, your modifiable risk factors that you can change. Well there is genetic fathers did it as well. Yeah. But it would be interesting. I mean I'm just fascinated by functional genomics and looking at understanding of why your immune system would kick into overdrive and actually cause an S is this likely to happen again? Not GBS. Well, we'll get to that in a minute, but you know, for other immune responses now here on land. Yeah, I'll definitely be interested in looking at research that we can. When I'm working with the DNA company and I've had dr mincer on the say they've just opened their labs up again and it'll be a few months before I'm qualified. But I can definitely connect you this if you want to have a look at that just to, I mean it's, I think it's something that everybody should do once in their life anyway. Speaker 3: (21:49) Yeah, it's fantastic, Dan. The stain, it can definitely help you plan and prepare for your future. Not stupidly, but just preparation was, you know, you'll tell him to stay on what's happened. Like what could possibly happen for you and what, you know, change it while you can change in regards to modifying your lifestyle to be able to enjoy, enjoy your, you know, your quality of life to the full extent. And even like things like, and this is getting a bit off topic, but you know what medications you might interact with in a, in a bad way or you know what your detox pathways are like. So do you need to be super vigilant when it comes to outside toxins, that type of thing or your hormone pathways or everything like that is involved at, so it's pretty, pretty, pretty good information to have. It's like, I reckon it should be like passport. Speaker 3: (22:43) So you have it, you know, and then you take the interventions to stop problems. But back, back to give a story. So you, you, you're fighting for your life now in your, you've, you've gotten through that really bad, horrific stage. How were you mentally coping with us as a 23 year old when you started to come back to life, if you like what you've been through, this traumatic, horrific experience. Have you dealt with that? You know, I've probably, I'm a very optimistic person, just like as a put my personality. I have a very optimistic look and I'm just in life in general. It was really tough. So at the challenge me a lot I wish I knew my wife, that's, it would've been easier, definitely been easier. You know, just being, you're being 23 and I'm very much a mum mama's boy. Yeah, absolutely. Nothing wrong with that. And my mum at the time Speaker 4: (23:47) You know, after raising my brother, my sister and I her entire life as a single mother. Wow. yeah, it's off to half. Yeah. I have a lot of, a lot of things in life. She was in Spain, so she decided, you know, how all of us, we're all growing up, we're living our lives. We started our new careers and, you know, looking, you know, what's going on in our own adult lives. If you took this opportunity, you know, to actually just enjoy this and go off on another Valium sabbatical for six, seven months over in Spain, lift my lift, my stepdad, he just say, I'm going to Spain. I'm going to go off and have all that. And she was basically two months in over there, and then they'll say, great. Trip as well. You know, I tried to, we rang basically nearly ever tried to ring every night through Oh, he used to be called Viber, you know, the original kind of. Yep. I guess. And you know, I basically said to every single time, as hard as it was to me, just to say on the phone was, you know, I said, I kept on saying to mum, don't come back. I'm going to beat this. And I'm not gonna pray, I'm not going to buy as much as I probably cried a lot of the time thinking that I was going to die. Speaker 4: (25:17) Yeah. To face your own mortality though, I mean ridiculously young age you know, like how do you see that now? What's your relationship with it now? I mean it's a pretty hard thing to buddy. Others that's I think I look at it more is I don't ever look at it as a, it's a fear concept. I probably look at it as a, as an opportunity to kind of, like I said, like before we even started a podcast, that's just an opportunity to actually still learn. Even though, even though I was going through this, I was like knocking it, if I get through this, what am I going to learn from this? So that's how I actually probably got me through. A lot of it was, you know, I'm not going to let this beat me, so what can I do with my life if I, you know, not if I was going to, it's like I was spicy. Speaker 4: (26:06) I was trying to tell myself that I wasn't going to, but you know, facing, facing that possible. Yeah, it was either I have my down moments. You know, you sometimes you're probably just thinking about wanting just to give up because it was just so that was quite hard and you know, seeing my family and my family and my family just probably, which has definitely been, you know, my Maori being from a Maori family, my and my mum overseas, I'd always had someone next to me. So yeah, my aunties, my uncles, my brothers, my sisters, my Dad, they all kind of took their time out of their days to kind of one at a time, go on a roster and just be there 24, seven basically, isn't it? It's so important to have that support. Yeah. And you know, like I'm a big, I'm a very holistic kind of person. Then before MALDI back home we have a thing called all, you know, like mother that can be, and so basically in anything, so a person, an object or you know, any inanimate kind of thing. But by them being there, they actually predicting them announcing me, if that makes sense. Absolutely makes sense. You know, if I didn't have them, I don't know if I'd even be here. Being beside your loved ones and having walking with them and their dark times is just so, so, so crucial. Like very family orientated person. So yeah. Speaker 4: (27:36) And you got a good one. I didn't have them beside me. I don't think I definitely would not have probably made it on my own. Because they were actually my thyroid, my motivation to actually fight and fight cause you need to fight, you need to fight when you're in deep, deep trouble and to find that fight when you're in pain and in, in terror and fear and all the rest of it. And the reason probably why I say I would show my wife at the time was because she's actually given me that strength and power to actually on the same or separate afflictions. Yes. I never actually fully understood it and she comprehended it. So I was obviously me being a 20 young, 23, all these just think of the physical aspects of life. And I never really considered, you know, how impactful the mental side of things, the emotional side of things and the spiritual side of things. Speaker 4: (28:25) But it's actually, she really helped me also is actually trying to understand who I am, what my identity is. Wow. I shocked. Cause if I had that back then as well, you know, I definitely would. Mmm. Fully understand and actually I would have been a hell of a lot better position to actually get full without ever even thinking or considering those kinds of things I would consider and think about them, but I wouldn't have, I wouldn't, you know, consume me. Yup. Yup. If they make sense. So I'm a big believer in if you have a strong, I didn't say even cultural identity, if you understand who you are, yeah. It gets you through. So, and that's, you know, being honest to yourself, being yeah, even on the others. And just taking them one step at a time, you know, it's not going to, you need to fully appreciate it. Speaker 4: (29:17) I understand that sometimes you do need that time to just kind of look at yourself and understand who you are. Cause if we don't, then you struggle. So this has brought you wisdom beyond your years really, isn't it? Yeah. So, okay, so, so you, you were in the rehab now for over a year trying to come from this thing and what was that better like? Like was it like coming back from a stroke or a brain injury? Was it like that now? Yeah, so basically it was really weird. So for me, I actually quite enjoyed it, but obviously obviously food through. I, I enjoyed the rehab, but the time that I was in the hospital, that was the tough part. So yeah, it wasn't until I probably got past it every elevation there point where I knew I wasn't going to buy. Yeah. Basically once they, once their fear of my own mortality here to pass, I was, you know, basically they basically told me, I was like, I've been in it and now all I have to do is put the work in. Yep. So be able to give myself from where I am right now, being dependent and now becoming, you know, my independent self again. Wow. I'm still alive so I'm stoked. Speaker 4: (30:39) I'm going to fight like crazy to get better. So I'd never looked at it as being, you know, I never looked at myself as being disabled ever. Maybe sometimes I maybe shouldn't because I know I probably pushed a lot of stress and, and you know I'm on my family when I was going through it there first time cause I, you know, obviously I think we forgot to mention them. I got this last year as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what we've got to get to yet. So, yeah. So that, you know, I wish I probably was able to be honest. If I say, you know, on, on basically my family going through a lifetime because I know how stressful it was for them to kind of see me in that position and all they wanted to do was just help me and all in all I would do was just kind of internalize it and just keep it to myself and say, no, I almost went homeless and do it myself. Speaker 4: (31:36) Right. But, you know, that was a very selfish thing. Like when I look back on it, it's a very selfish approach that I had on it, even though I know they called me it. But that's because I was only ever thinking about the physical side of things still because you were young and I was young and you know, for me, being a 23 year old, you know, the physical side of life, very, very important. And being a man, you know, you messed the and he gets challenged and it was very, very hard to kind of get through that without ever feeling like I was burdening my family. So, you know, and that way when I look at it now, I, that was the wrong approach. But yeah, so basically once I got past, they pointed at this past the point that I wasn't going to be, that wasn't going to die. I was in hospital until basically I was my, I wasn't head. I took out the mechanical ventilation and I started doing some form of physiotherapy in the hospital and then they had organized me to go to a festival or a Ferguson. I know I Speaker 3: (32:40) Tried to get mum in there, couldn't get her and sorry. Speaker 4: (32:43) I got, I don't know where I got my funding from yeah since I was three months in hospital. And my rehab basically consisted of a lot of it was orientated around my goals and what I wanted to reach back to. However, when I read what I really enjoyed about lower foods, and it's basically like a campus that's a rehabilitation campus and it's for people that are under the age of 60. So it's not a, it's not a retirement village. It's actually for people that are, wants a big goal, be there long term. They had some of them who have long term conditions and took some of them terminal to a certain extent, but they're all there for the purpose of what's in there. Try and get better. Speaker 3: (33:29) Love that. I love that. Yeah. I did try to get my mum in there. She was too old to get there and we couldn't get funding and so on. But it did feel like a place where you were going to actually do something because I must say you're a neurophysio now, so we'll get to that shortly. But I must say the physio care that we had in the hospital was nothing short of atrocious. Yeah. I could have done it in my sleep. I think they went, they'd eat the lunch. That's pretty harsh. But that's, that's how I felt. Speaker 4: (34:02) And it's, it's really hard when I think about that because they are quite restricted in a lot of what they can provide. You know, me being like going through placements in one note as well in the hospitals, they all want to change how they approach things on the hospitals. That's why they're trying to implement, you know, code rehabilitation, gems and whatnot there as well to get more involved. But at the same time it's really tough because systems at the system is built around, you know, you've got so many patients that you have to see on a ward and you've got what, 10, 2030, 30 minutes at the met with them. Speaker 3: (34:41) I must say I must, I must re repair what I just said. The ones that were came round to us on the ward during the acute phase were lovely. Awesome. Yeah. When we were later put into the rehab with mum I fought to get her back into the system to get, you know, cause they said at the beginning she's never going to do anything again. We're not going to bother basically. And I fought and after a year I got her back in for two times a week and there was atrocious. And I felt like a box ticking exercise. The ones on the ward were different. They were very passionate and really, really wanting to help. So in, and this is no indictment on any one person or thing, but there was a systemic problem and there is a systemic problem with the way that the, the things are run at least an hour, the, our hospital and the way that you are judged, I remember and don't want to take her out for the interview, but six weeks she had as a block of two times a week. Speaker 3: (35:43) And honestly what she would do in that six weeks I would have done in a day with her. The tests that they tried to put her through, she was intimidated. She felt like a school girl, so she was not interacting with them. Because they were very judging her all the time, whether she should continue in the program. And at the very end of the program, they had a big panel where they all came in to decide your fate, whether you'd be considered to continue in the program. And they, they talked to me not to hear who's sitting next to them and says she's below the level of the worst dementia patient we've ever seen. You know, she's never going to do anything and this is a waste of time. And I turned to my mom and I said, well how does that make you feel mum? Speaker 3: (36:28) And she said, you know, well I was feeling quite empowered until I came in here. Now I feel totally, you know, down before. And they just looked at me and then jaws drop cause I had never heard her speak because they had never spoken to her as a intelligent person. So she had responded because she was intimidated by that medical setting and I knew that she was a nurse. I knew she had a, you know, stuff going on and she was intelligent and she was coming back. I believed in her and I just said to them, you can stick your program up there somewhere. I'm going to bring my mum back. And I did. From that point on I was like, right there is no help. I will go and do this all myself. And that's, you know, that's, that's just that particular bunch of people in one particular place. And that's not an indictment on them all. But that was, that was quite sad. And then I had a wonderful neurophysio. So let's get onto your neurophysio cause you've gone down this path now after going through this. Was that the reason that you went and studied neurophysiology? Speaker 4: (37:35) Yeah, definitely swung my Martha sessions that go that way. Yeah. I wasn't actually through PSI. I had an amazing neurophysio and when I went, when I was at Laura, focus on the reason why I decided to go down this path though you know, it was just, she just knew how to push me in the right ways and I wanted to do that for other people. And even when I was at Laura Ferguson, I met so many amazing people that had never asked the, you know, to have a stroke, to have no image, to have Huntington's disease, to have pockets. And so, you know, they never, never, they never asked for that. And just to be able to have it's just you know, the, the, the thing I think about the most is people, there's dependent, you know, if you're, if you lose your independence, I feel that's the huge, like the biggest thing as a human, you don't read it like it, it's that old cliche of, you know, you don't know what you have until it's gone. Speaker 4: (38:36) And so basically it's a pout. Somebody that does the pendant become independent again. That's the most rewarding thing that I can even think of from from, from absolutely. When I, when people ask me why I wanted to become a pussy, I say there's three things. So one of those I knew I always wanted to help people work from a health perspective. And originally I actually wanted to become a doctor and do medicine. So they laid onto their leads onto my second reason. That was the reason why I toasted the physio and it's purely because I probably had hit the, you know, Gordon, she was amazing. I'm going to start her name out there because she is amazing. They she made me understand that being a physiotherapist you just were able to have. And there's just this natural and therapeutic relationship that you just can't have as a doctor is, you know, as a relationship proficient. Speaker 4: (39:34) Yeah. Your ability to be able to have those real deep connection with, with your patients was like, there was, that's the reason why I really got back to where I am today because of that. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm a very people person. So having that intense of kind of relationship with each other collectively, you know, having that shared goal of kind of getting to that, to that same, to that shared place where they want to, that they want to achieve. As you know, second to none. It's a bond for life really, isn't it? I can see how much you love and respect what she did for you and how much it means. And this is why it's on me to becoming a physiotherapist rather than a doctor. The complete opposite of like, I had a neurophysio too who came to our house afterwards and he was wonderful. Speaker 4: (40:31) He gave me the belief that we could do this. He gave me the basic tools so that I could work every day with here cause I couldn't afford obviously everything. But he gave me the information that I could then put that into practice on a day by day by day basis. It's really common sense. It's just being able to apply it in the right way and try to break movements down. Now how do you teach someone to, I specifically look at it in three ways, you know, narrow cause as I think of it as he got function, strategy and impairment, that's basically, that's, that's my, that's like my go to for anything basically. So you know what you wanna achieve as function, you have strategies to achieve that function and then by you have an impairment which affects the strategy to be able to perform the function. Speaker 4: (41:18) Yes. Yep. So obviously the goal is function by why you have to do a specifically time work on the impairment and then effectively your strategies should try and improve and then you start, that's how you progress to the next kind of thing. And then, then what happens is you'll be able to perform their function again. It's like a soap tech. I'm like, I'm trying to simplify it, but that's how I try and approach things. Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense to me. Yeah. That's like free three steps and there's a variety of ways of how you can integrate your treatment methods. So there's a variety of treatment methods that you can use, but that's the ultimate call it, that's the, that's the basis of it that I run by. Wow, I'm going to bring them up to see you one day, what's the next thing I can do with it? Speaker 4: (42:06) So they basically, when I funded, when I recovered, I decided to become a therapist. So I enrolled into A A T and started in 2016. Obviously because I got a dog, cause 2015 had already started because I had a bit of paper and I just kinda wanted to give them my stuff that either actual year where I just worked and just got back on it to actually get back to normality. And then I decide to go on on the intake in 2016. And AAT is now I'm gonna fly should be an, it should be an advertisement for them or something. Yeah. Yeah. They're amazing. So I love that. I love being a part of that. They invest like the way our lectures were, they all came from a clinical experience. They weren't, they were heavily based on the theory. Speaker 4: (43:02) So, you know, they, they basically, they, they pushed down a farts to be able to have a clinical reasoning. And maybe I want to think on a fetus practitioners as clinicians, I want us to be clinicians. They want, they don't want us to be bookworms and lab and just writing, research things out all the time. Cause at the end of the day, you know, our, we're providing a service and we want it to be based around real good quality service. Not just, you know, anyone go on Google and find out and do this, you know, you know, I can do that. We want it to be able to, so they've really and forced their kind of encourage and encourage that type of learning. So it was very practical. And I'm a very practical kind of person. And it's really weird, you know, obviously when I was going through my rehab with his 2014 and they're learning and become in basically going through my physiotherapy degree, I look back on when I was through my rehab and I could see all the little tricks that you said. They will create these signs and your physio you create like the games and really it's actually, it's an objective measure for being. So I didn't really realize that it was actually like a, she's, she's testing me but I didn't know that. Wow. We've got them on or big take tests in all photos just to help me with like picking up things and putting them in. But secretly she had been timing me. Speaker 4: (44:37) She had made it basically. She made a lot of things cause I'm very sport all of my sports. So she made a lot of things in the games like paying the, we you know, you just, you can be as creative as you like as a neurophysio just to get that function back. Yeah. and you know, you learn, you learn basically all the main three, which is cardio, musculoskeletal and neuro. You always remember the principles of all three. Highly effective when you come out of uni, you kind of the side, we really want to kind of stop that all like basically to down and down. And so I obviously obviously matches. Obviously neuro, I do have a miscarriage. I do like that as well. And most people do do musculoskeletal. That's like your normal, full possessive, your body. Everybody knows about. Speaker 4: (45:28) But yeah, my interest is always possibly always going to be neurons just purely from an empathetic point of view. Having that rewarding feeling of being able to help someone get from a to B and just being a part of their journey with them. Yeah. They've ever wanted to be a credited with any of the, you know, them getting there. It's because it's all in. It's just being able to share their journey with them. But it's amazing to be able to, to provide that framework for people to, to learn from and to grow from. And so I just wanna like wrap up in a few minutes, but I want you, you got this again. Yes. You went through this whole thing again in January this year. Speaker 4: (46:12) August last August, 2019 so I was the special 1% of the entire world to get GPS twice. Wow. That's insane. It's super, super unlucky. But this time I have my wife, yes. Father-In-Law. I can never be grateful and thankful enough for them because this time, at least they, we knew what we were dealing with and we see Australia and stuff. It was just a lot and was still very tough and I still kind of, you know, internalized a lot of things. And you know, that, that same thing that the last time when I kind of found my cell phone with regards to my, you know, challenging my masculinity and keeping things internalized, trying to get through myself instead of feeling like I'm burdening everyone else with what's going on with me. But you know, Claire and Steven definitely helped me get through that. And I should apologize to my wife because I know it's probably very, very, very tough on it. Anyone you love and when you're going through hard times, you're always going to have moments where you didn't do what you wanted to do. When you look back afterwards. I mean, I've had times like with where I've been, like Speaker 3: (47:30) Afterwards gone, shit that wasn't good behavior, you know, on my behalf and, or you think, you know, but you're just in a desperate state of exhaustion and fatigue and the grind of it all and you did things that you're not surprised of. Now, you know, in my case where you think, you know, we have yelled at her for something or you know, just gotten frustrated and gone, Oh for goodness sake, you know, and then you're like, that's Speaker 4: (48:03) Time is as much as I was plus time round. It was amazing. Effectively Steven was my head of Gordon the farm. That's, you know, we went, we went to the polls basically three times a week and we went into the hospital twice a week. And he was the one basically taking me through all of my exerciser and whatnot and you know, clearly had to obviously go to work every day. But at the end of the day, she's like my biggest inspiration, the person that I aspire to be like, cause she knows who she is. She sounds awesome. Gotta meet. He's he always makes me want to be a better person or just a better man. Yeah. She, she sees me like she, she can, she sees through me if they make sense, she feeds me. She knows me better than I did myself. Yeah, Speaker 3: (48:52) You can be, you can be real with her too. You, you are who you are and she loves you for all the, all the good, the bad and the ugly. And isn't that what it's a wonderful thing. Yeah. Speaker 4: (49:05) Well the whole my kids look, I mean to me I couldn't make it bad side loss basically up to my elbows, into my knees as time. So I still had function and my, you know, basically my, it wasn't as bad, but it was still GBS even still take like six to seven months before I can actually, he's coming out the other end of this couldn't have been on myself. Yeah. Speaker 3: (49:31) Right. We're gonna wrap up now. What's the message? You know, there's a couple of good messages that have come out of today saying like, as a, as a young Mari, you know, men, you've faced us with amazing strengths and the wisdom that you are beyond your years. I mean, what are you now, 29, 2030 29 30 turning 30 wisdom beyond your years because of what you've been through and that is going to help so many people and your career and what you, what you do. And I'm very excited as it is. I know Steven is to see where you go in life because you know the power and the money that you already have now because of what you've experienced and your openness and your thing. I just think it's fantastic. And you're going to really be empowering lots of other people going through and this is probably, you know, your life's call and you know, is to help people and to do this and to share your story. You know, I think it's important. So this is hopefully the first time you were sharing it and won't be the last, I guess Speaker 4: (50:37) My take home is search after everything that I've been through with everything and all the people that I met. And then I have my wife and Steve and everyone inclusive my family. I think the biggest thing for me will be I think I'll probably look at it at this time of the kind of leader that I want to be like. So it's really, as I said before, it's being able to understand and having their perception of others, you know, never worrying, never caring about the perception of myself. You'll never, if you, if you can understand the perception of others you want to have, you always have an empathetic point of view on my fear. You'll be able to actually stand on the feet, stand in their shoes, sorry. And then understand, tied on the stand, what they're going through and instead of a sympathetic point in life, because at a point when you can become too sympathetic in not feeling sorry for them and then that's not going to help them at all. Empathetic, sympathetic. So that's the kind of leader that I want to be like. And that's what I want to, Speaker 3: (51:41) You're well on your way to doing that and you have a lot of money. You can see it. It just comes out through the screen. So thank you very much for sharing so openly and honestly today, your journey because it is empowering to other people who are going through difficult times. And this is, you know, part of the job of the show is to educate people around, you know, health and fitness and the latest science and the latest stuff. But also to make us understand like we're all human and we all have these feelings and we can get through tough times strategies and tools to do that. And you obviously found a few along the way. So I wish you well and you know, I'm excited to see where you go mate. And any last words, any last words before? Speaker 4: (52:29) Speaker 3: (52:35) Love it. Thanks. Thanks. Bye. Speaker 1: (52:37) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team lisatamati.com.

In this episode Lisa speaks with NZ's top Ozone Therapy Machine providers and expert on all things Ozone, Kim Saxton of Natural Ozone (www.naturalozone.co.nz)   What is Ozone Therapy? Ozone Therapy refers to a collection of procedures and protocols which have been developed by medical experts using medical ozone to treat a condition or reduce symptoms. They include: Injection - Auto hemotherapy; or direct injection into a vein or joint. Insufflation - in the ear; vaginal; rectal. Inhalation   - breathing ozonoids given off from ozonated oil. Ingestion - Ozonated water, ozonated olive oil in capsule form. Transdermal  - Cupping with a funnel. Sauna. All of the above therapies except for injection can be administered safely in the comfort of your own home using the equipment available through Natural Ozone. From improved immune system function to stimulating the uptake of life-giving oxygen, delivering anti-microbial benefits and enhancing the function of the mitochondria (our cells energy powerhouses), your decision to begin ozone therapy is a health-enhancing one! Ozone therapy refers to the process of administering ozone gas into your body to treat a disease or wound. Ozone is a colorless gas made up of three atoms of oxygen (O3). It can be used to treat medical conditions by stimulating the immune system. It can also be used to disinfect and treat disease.   How it works Ozone therapy works by disrupting unhealthy processes in the body. It can help stop the growth of bacteria that are harmful. Medical ozone has been usedTrusted Source to disinfect medical supplies and treat different conditions for more than 150 years. For example, if you have an infection in your body, ozone therapy can stop it from spreading.   Ozone therapy can be effective at treating infections caused by: bacteria viruses fungi yeast protozoa Ozone therapy also helps flush out infected cells. Once the body rids itself of these infected cells, it produces new, healthy ones.   What it helps treat Ozone therapy is used for a variety of conditions.   Breathing disorders People with any type of breathing disorder may be good candidates for ozone therapy. By providing more oxygen to your blood, ozone therapy can help reduce the stress on your lungs. Your lungs are responsible for supplying oxygen to your blood. Clinical trials for people with asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) are currently in progress.    Diabetes Ozone therapy also shows promise in reducing the risk of complications from diabetes. Complications are usually caused by oxidative stress in the body. If ozone therapy can bring new, fresh oxygen to the blood and tissues, people with diabetes could have much better outcomes. People with diabetes also experience poor wound healing. According to a 2015 study, ozone therapy could be helpful for repairing skin and tissue.   Immune disorders Ozone therapy may have benefits for people with immune disorders because it can help stimulate the immune system.   Some links of interest mentioned during the podcast:   Natural Ozone https://naturalozone.co.nz/collections/ozone-therapy-1 Natural Ozone Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NaturalOzoneNZ/ Frank Shallenberger The Ozone Miracle: http://www.theozonemiracle.com/ Library of medical studies, journal publications and references on Ozone Therapy https://www.zotero.org/groups/46074/isco3_ozone/items/JWHQISE3/library Dr Robert Rowen https://drrowendrsu.com/   Ozone therapy clinics in NZ:  Dr Wayne McCarthy https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/meet-the-team/dr-wayne-mccarthy-naturopathic-physician/ Michelle Roberts : https://www.michellesoxygen.co.nz/    About Kim Saxton It was back in 2007 when Kim first encountered the extraordinary power of O3 gas while working with a small local company. Her background in business development and MSc in International Management brought that enterprise onto a good business footing while she gained formidable knowledge of this fascinating branch of science. Armed with these years of research and experience, Kim independently founded Natural Ozone in 2016. Natural Ozone supplies all the products and associated equipment required to harness the full range of applications for ozone including air and water purification, room and car sanitisation, as well as health treatment. With well-established partner companies who have manufactured to their exacting standards for over a decade, Natural Ozone is uniquely placed within Australasia to supply high quality, reliable equipment.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Today everybody to pushing the limits today. I have another exciting guest for you, Kim Saxton of naturalozone.co.nz, the leading ozone machine providers in New Zealand is to guest on the show today and Kim has going to be explaining what exactly ozone therapy is, how you can use it, the various ways of getting it into the body, why you should do that and all the conditions that can be helped with ozone therapy. Now this is something that's been on my radar for a while, so I was really, really excited to finally catch up with Kim and I'm going to be trialing out the ozone therapy over the coming weeks. So I will let you know how I go. And thanks very much to come for doing this interview. Before we go over to kim, just want to remind you two things. Speaker 2: (01:00) We have our next epigenetics public webinar that we're holding online via zoom on the 27th of May at 6:30 PM. If you want to find out about it, if a genetics program, which is all about personalized health and understanding your genes and how they're expressing themselves, then go over to epigenetics.lisatamati.com to register for that webinar 27th of May at 6:30 PM New Zealand time. You can come in and find out all about the epigenetics program that we offer and how it can help you. And finally, before we go into the show, just another plug for my book, relentless, which I bought out a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now. Really, really great read in this time of Coburn and all that uncertainty and taking on big challenges cause that's what that book is all about. You can grab that on my website, lisatamati.com. It's available on all the audio books, the eBooks, the Amazon, the Kindles, the, you name it, it's available everywhere. So check that out. It's called relentless. How a mother and daughter defied the odds right now over to Kim Saxton from natural ozone. Speaker 1: (02:16) Sorry. Speaker 3: (02:16) Good. All right. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tamati at pushing the limits and I have the lovely Kim saxton with me. Kim, how you doing? Speaker 4: (02:24) Very good. Hi Lisa. Speaker 3: (02:26) It's really cool to have you there. Kevin is setting an initial 10. What was the name of the place? The villains. Speaker 4: (02:32) Cool. Cool. See at Bay actually, which is yeah, one Bay around from Luton. Speaker 3: (02:38) Yes. Actually that's been in the news lately, hasn't it? And of course, thereby Bay, I think when the cruise ship was off there was, Speaker 4: (02:45) That's right. Speaker 3: (02:47) I just remember that somewhere popped into my head. So Kim is with us today to talk ozone and ozone therapy and Kim owns a company called naturalozone.co.nz. Then I'll put them on links and things after to comes website and the products that they do and she's going to share her knowledge today. Everything around ozone. And I'm really fascinated by this and it's something that's been on my radar for the last couple of years and I just haven't got there to do it. But I'm hearing amazing things both in relation to the coronavirus you know, if we want to be current and also many, many other areas. So can, can you tell us a little bit, so you've been in the ozone world now for quite a few years. Speaker 4: (03:33) Yes. So basically about 15 years I first came into contact to ozone and, and well, the amazing things that it can do via my former partner. And he had been already had been involved with ozone therapy and ozone products for about 10 years. Before I met him. He had actually contracted hepatitis B while traveling through India and after, yes, lots and lots of conversations like you do with people. Lisa I had come across ozone therapy and actually cured himself of hepatitis B which, you know you, you say that to a GP and they'll go, yeah. But yeah, I was on therapy alone. He took himself hepatitis B and, and got into building machines. I came along and made a business around it. So Speaker 3: (04:40) So you have a background as the masters in international management, isn't it? Speaker 4: (04:45) Yes, that's right. Yeah. So I studied that in London, university of London at Southwest university, which is a school of African and Asian studies and that's a, yeah. Yeah. Basically you got a big international management college with focus on Asia. Yeah, it's run through the university of London. Speaker 3: (05:08) So you're able to use a lot of that skills to build a business around something that you knew was powerful and good, but Speaker 4: (05:15) It's coming from a family that's, yeah, pretty, pretty business oriented. So like, yeah, I was telling you earlier that you know, when my family gets together at Christmas, everybody's talking about the latest startup and latest technology and yeah, you know, we're also debating about what the government's doing and all that. You know, but everybody's like jumping right in there with their ideas and innovation and I've got three older brothers and very supportive growing up. They're, they're all awesome. And we were all good friends, so and support of each other. So yeah. And, and actually now what we're saying is a lot of international connections and things like that. And, and particularly, particularly from Asia, like I'm already quite well established in Asia Australian and New Zealand markets, but wow, they were getting from India and Singapore and, and things like this and this part of the book. Speaker 3: (06:29) So share this year, this powerful therapy with people. So, okay, let's go into ozone. People would have heard, probably let you know, I think most people's knowledges, I've heard about it. Some people have said it's great dunno where I can get it done. Really one of those, or this seems to be, and even for me, I've read a couple of books and things. I'm still a little bit confused about all of the variety. It seems like it affects everything and the different applications and the different ways you can use it. Can we just start at the beginning and say what is ozone you know, from molecule point of view and what did the ozone machines do? Speaker 4: (07:09) Sure. So ozone is a gas and it has three atoms. So oxygen has two atoms and ozone has three. So where is oxygen is stable. It wants to the two oxygen atoms. They want to stay together and main stable and bond. But ozone is relatively unstable, so it's highly active. I like to think of it as enhanced oxygen. With the oxygen atom. It's it's very powerful when you can harness it and use it which there's tons of ways that we're going to get into and I'm really excited about that. But yeah, if you can harness that power, that extra oxygen atom, then it's very powerful. So the way that ozone is created naturally in the atmosphere, so it's in the higher, I'm answering the lower atmosphere, but with your, they liked and lightning storms and any kind of energy that will come along and will spoon your oxygen atoms. And what, what then happens is a lot of other oxygen the Adam's will bond and form oxygen and that's majority of what's happening. But also what's happening is it will give off ozone. So this a strong base get off and all form with another two oxygen atoms and form for my zone. And, Speaker 3: (08:56) And we have an ozone layer, don't we? We all know that the ozone layer having holes in it. Speaker 4: (09:00) Yeah, yeah. And, and you can, you can actually smell ozone. So after, after the lightning storm, when it's at really fresh smell, after we've had this big storm at night and you wake up in the morning and there's sun shining and you can really S it smells so good, smells really, really fresh. And that's, that's ozone. And also a few go and stand under a waterfall or go to the beach and there's big crashing surf. That's all giving off ozone. Wow. Basically breaking up those oxygen atoms and it's all given off ozone. So and, and in low levels it's it's very good and very healthy for us, but in high concentrations which he can produce conditionally to ozone generators then it is an irritant to the lungs. So and that's very non, so about the, when we get into ozone therapy about the only thing you can't do with those own therapy is breathe directly the ozone guests in high concentrations and low concentrations. It's absolutely fine. Yep. Speaker 3: (10:10) Cause it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't pick the lungs in the negative way and can actually lead to death if you have a really, really high dose of advisers. Is that right? Speaker 4: (10:20) Or just damages just really damages the lungs in particular people with asthma. Yeah, for a strong irritant to actually know you've, you've done too much ozone cause you'll, you'll have a horrible coughing attack which can, which can go on and be you know you know, quite severe. But actually if you, if you stop puffing I'm, I'm Mike, you know, like you were saying before that you want to have a laboratory and doing all sorts of experiments and things like that. So one of the things I do is make ozonated oil, which can take about a month. And sometimes when it's kind of on its last legs, then the ozone, after it's fully infused into the oil, we'll start off guessing and I've walked into the room and there's too much ozone in there and I'll breathe too much and my stop coughing. But if I reached for the vitamin C and take the vitamin C straight away, then immediately you're, you're fine. It's also not the end of the world. Speaker 3: (11:26) Yeah. Yeah. And it would have to be pretty, pretty hard to assess, to do some serious damage, but you don't sit at the end of a ozone generator. And sucker. Okay. So what are some of the ways we can harness, before we get into what it helps, what are some of the methodologies or the delivery mechanisms that we can get that the ozone to the right part of the body and get it inside? Speaker 4: (11:52) Yeah, so that's a great question. And, and often the first one that people, people ask me then I'd say, Oh dude, do you breathe it? And I'm like, well, no, it was never said, we can't, we can't do that. But yeah, basically there is, yeah. Every, every other common way that you can, you, you can get into the body. So I was just mentioned the ozonated oil, what you can do is breathe the ozonated oil. So when I was zone is infused into olive oil, which is a traditional medium that's usually used and it's actually changing its state very, very quickly because, yeah, this ozone is, is reactive, it's unstable, and the olive oil will actually hold, hold the ozone. But it, it changes it Satan to something called Oh, it's annoyed. And when you breathe that that I was annoyed from the olive oil as it's been infused, then that's really good for lung conditions. Speaker 4: (13:01) So that's how you can help breathing conditions and the lungs, which is very relevant at the moment. So that would be like in a sort of essential oil diffuser type situation. It's, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not really in the realm of essential oil. Ozone does have a very restaurant smell. And a lot of people will be put off actually by this strong smell. But it's, it's actually, you know, and fish tanks, you diffuse the stones to just bubble oxygen and to the water clear and plain in the fish tanks. So these diffusers stones, what were you as as it was on, it's very corrosive. So we always use ozone resistant materials. So I have, I import diffuse the stones from America, we can't make it here. And my dad of ceramic and stone. And you basically diffused that the pure form of the guests into a, the olive oil and that will form owes in words and you complete that. Speaker 4: (14:14) And so that's, so that's one of the modems and then everything under the sun. So the most powerful way to get ozone into the body is actually to go to a clinic and do what's called also hammy off the or I the ozone. And this is systematic. So it's, it's working on the, on the, on the total body because basically the medical grade ozone is getting into the body and getting into your blood system and then your blood declining. It's really doing a lot of amazing, amazing, powerful things that we can get into also. But w we all say medical grade ozone, that's, this is a really important point because of, we've talked about how unstable the ozone is and basically reacts with whatever is around it. So if we just have like a normal ozone generator then that bull jaw and ear, and we know that the air in which we brave is only about 21% oxygen and year and the rest of the ear is whole lot of other guesses. Speaker 4: (15:29) Yeah. So if you, if you bring that normal ear into the ozone generator, then what? Then the guys are more react to that normal air and produce a whole load of yeah. Different, different kinds of guesses. And some of these will be nitrate kind of guessing. And that we definitely do not want to get into the body. So what we want to do for medical grade ozone therapy is to get harness at ozone and it's very pure form. And we do that by inputting a very pure form of Austin's, which you can get from an oxygen tank, which is, yeah. Not over 98% purity. It was a medical grade oxygen, Speaker 3: (16:14) Which has its own regulations and problems having it on oxygen clarity clinic. We have, we have ways around that. I a woman here mafia, the boom and oxygen situation. Speaker 4: (16:31) Yeah. So that so when you get up Purifill mobile oxygen and and that's drawn into the ozone then with a very specifically built or its own generator, and we call it a medical grade ozone generator because all of the parts within the ozone generator are all the parts and because, yeah, yeah. Offsides everything. So things like glass, titanium, Silicon, stainless steel yeah, ceramic these things are, have got really good zoned resistancy and, and so these are the kind of materials that you are looking for when you're, when you're going out to buy a medical ozone generator. And that's really important question to ask whoever's in back. And so it's and it also has a built in a specific way that it has a session amount of output. So with ozone therapy, basically the measurement that we use is mg per milliliter or America. Speaker 4: (17:46) They, they use gamma. And anything on the 20 mg per ML is not going to do anything. And anything over 95 is shown to be detrimental to the, to your body cells. So you don't want to go above that. So it's a very non and very specific window of effectiveness when you're using ozone therapy and and ozone therapy units are, are built that way. And because I built that way, then it's knowing that if you follow the protocols, it is known to be the most safest therapy. There are no side effects. There's only the only thing that can happen is a little bit of detox. Fine. Yep. And they also prevented Speaker 3: (18:39) Yeah. When you guys finally, okay, so, so just going back to the Ivy so you go, you have to go to an ozone clinic. Is it doctor only situation, you know, you have to be a medical doctor to do ozone therapy or how is it regulated? Speaker 4: (18:56) So yeah, different, different countries have different regulations. We're so pretty fortunate to New Zealand with, with our regulations. Yeah, as long as we're transparent and, and we're backing everything up with good science then, then we're good. And in America as ozone therapy is got, comes with messages of things surrounding the FDA. And Australia and Australia also, it's a stricter legislation, but they're academics and they're nice and bright people to refer to. And but actually in New Zealand, nobody is offering the IV ozone. So nobody. Wow. Yeah. And now the, and the reason being is the space where I was on therapy has had a bad reputation and the past is because of the IV ozone and somebody that doesn't know anything about how, you know, hasn't been trained, how to handle needles and things like that, then I mean, of course a blood ambulance is a real danger. And so if you don't know what you're doing then, then that, that's absolutely shocking. We shouldn't even go there. So it needs to be a case to me. It takes me to try and post them ministering it. So there has been a couple cases of ambulances in the past and that send your sin and not good, but it's got nothing to it. Speaker 3: (20:50) Putting needles in your body in the wrong way. Speaker 4: (20:53) So Speaker 3: (20:55) Okay, so, so Ivy's off the, off the menu and New Zealand at the moment in team past ozone, which I've read about don't do it when you're really powerful and really unfortunate if we don't do that. So what types of therapies are offered in New Zealand, for example? That, you know, like rectal some inflation. Yes. Vaginal supplication. What other ways can you get it into your body? Speaker 4: (21:25) Yeah, so so what, what we do at natural ozone is set people up for home ozone therapy and there's a few other clinics that also offer these kinds of treatments within New Zealand and the clinic environment because it's, yeah, a homos went to therapy is it's very well known to be extremely safe. I can yeah, feel very assured to offer equipment and help people set it up in their own home and, and, and getting started with it. So the best thing that you can do outside of clinic is to do the rectal insufflation. And that's because it's systematic. It's getting into your yeah, it's true. You call on and into your blood system. And that's this way for this total body exposure to the beneficial effects of ozone therapy. Speaker 3: (22:23) Sounds glamorous. Yeah. Speaker 4: (22:28) Considerably less expensive than going to a clinic. And you've basically got this equipment for life and don't even need to get colds and flus anymore, let alone chronic disease, biohacking, all of it. Yeah. Speaker 3: (22:46) rectal insufflation Is probably the most powerful that we can do in the, in home setting. So, sorry, carry on. Speaker 4: (22:54) Yeah, so it's quite straightforward. You just have a bag and, and a catheter and you'll fill the bag with with certain concentration and start off with small amount and and that connects to a a very thin and long catheter. And you can insert that on you takes about a minute. And, and that's the best to do after an enema or at the very least bowel moves Speaker 3: (23:21) After a movement. Yeah. So do, so it only takes one minute. So you don't have to lie there for an hour with this thing attached to you. Speaker 4: (23:29) No, no. It's quite comfortable. You do try to hold it, hold it. And and, and there's there, there has been otherwise of, of doing that in the past. But this is become the kind of gold of, of the men's name, Richmond's flashing. Speaker 3: (23:48) And this is the liver isn't it? Cause it goes directly to the liver when it's erectile. Speaker 4: (23:53) Yup. Yeah, yup. Yeah. Directly, directly tied in liver and helps everything flush out that way. So then there's other yeah, ways that you can administer ozone therapy. So there's the vaginal that you mentioned and you got 10 minutes and you can build up to about half, half an hour. And yeah, and, and you can minister that directly from those on generator and, and the, and that's really good cause it's actually primarily targeting the immune system and giving that a good boost. And, and any, yeah, so the, the ozone is working both systematically and locally. So basically wherever you can get it in that you, you go for the, the protocols depending on, on what issues you're trying to do. A few but just generally everybody can prevent disease by doing direct ones, deflation, system wide. Also doing saunas are excellent because we know that our skin is a biggest poorest mess it up body. So a lot through our skin and, but we also know that we can't breathe those zones. Speaker 3: (25:17) Yes. I had an idea hit out, so I wonder what is box? Speaker 4: (25:24) I get a sauna with your end. You just have you hit up, tie a towel around it. So none of the ozone is getting braids and and you can get stained soreness, tents and just sit in one of one of those in your bathroom, sit up in your bathroom and portable and yeah. And then you put the certain concentration of oxygen, pure oxygen ozone mix into the sauna, steam stoner and, and sit there. Speaker 3: (25:55) And so it comes on trains too late, so it's transdermal cool. Okay. So that's another way you can get it. And, and, and do you offer at your company the tents and the, the whole, the whole shebang for that or, Speaker 4: (26:10) Yeah. So yeah, I, yeah, basically offer all the homophone therapy accessories and gear and everything you need to get cited before that. There's also like you can administer through the ears. And we have modified stiff scopes. That's all made out of ozone resistant material, like Silicon and things. And you just put that into his and that's targeting the brain area. So that'd be good. And things like that then yeah, it's, Speaker 3: (26:44) It's directly targeting that area. So I was, I was really effective. Yeah. Was that local, that local graphs of, of just wherever there is a problem area, if you can target it, then, then it can be very effective. Okay. So, all right, let's, let's transition now into what, what ailments that can help with and we are, so let's start at the head, because you just mentioned there, what is the mechanism or you know, like, I don't wanna get too scientific, but what is the mechanism of action? Is it going through into the ear? And you mentioned also tonight us, cause my husband's got that. So I'm selfishly asking about that. How is that the place for, for tinnitus as well? And how does that work? Speaker 4: (27:30) Yeah, so I, I would actually let's take a step back and you can actually look at what is the cause of disease itself. Yeah, I'll stop there. And yeah, this is, this is where I was on therapy as kind of the biohack is goat ticket to longevity, don't get disease, but you don't really hear of people dying of nothing, you know. There's, there's usually a associated disease. So I would really, really highly recommend, I don't know if you've come across him, but Dr. Frank Shallenberger Speaker 3: (28:27) A little might be a bit, yeah, I'm working on that one. Speaker 4: (28:33) So he, he was, he was one of the forefathers of ozone therapy and in America so 40 years on he had smoked it all. He administered therapy and trained from the first guys that invented the James Bond style, ozone medical ozone generators out of America. And have messes of research university and papers backing them. He trained from them. And, and basically one of the guys that have just been administering ozone therapy in a clinic environment and seeing thousands of patients throughout the years. Yeah. W what he talks about is, is really important. He's basically going into what is the root of cools of disease itself when now when we go out and about and and we'll go to the cheapy cheapy and we'll, yeah, they'll do some bicep tastes and yeah, they might say, okay, we've got healthy lungs and we're breathing healthy ear and they'll send us home and say, we're fine. What Dr. Frank Shallenberger is saying is saying, well no, I can, I can actually run my tests and I can show that you are not actually utilizing that oxygen. You might be breathing plenty. We might be like tricking up on these beautiful mountains that we have in New Zealand and breathing really fresh air and even doing yoga and having really great lung capacity for me and whatever. But we might not have the capacity within our body to utilize that oxygen. And so he's coined this term oxygen utilization. Speaker 4: (30:35) Now it's how can be described as similarly, you know, any vitamin that we that we're told that we, we have two that were depleted, all of them. W we should take. So, so we go to the doctor and they run some tests and they say, okay, your deficient vitamin basics. And so we'll go home and we'll take sort of one of these, but you six now, just because we're taking that everyday, it doesn't actually mean that our body is, that's a really well known within like we need other kinds of vitamins also. So we can actually utilize vitamin. Don't we need the genes to be able to do the right things? Speaker 4: (31:20) So same with oxygen. Just because we're breathing, that doesn't mean that necessarily mean that our body has capacity to utilize it. I mean, certain amount we're obviously using as it would be dead and the best way. And, and that's where yeah, he, he will then run, run some kind of test where he'll is his Scott Paul Murray a certified gadget that he can actually test how well you are utilizing oxygen. So and, and it will actually run the test and it will show, okay, you're using a certain amount. And he also test amount of carbon dioxide that we're expiring. And so what does his show is if you're utilizing oxygen, if you're taking it, if your body has ability to take most of it, and then you're actually, you don't, you don't expire much of the CO2. Speaker 4: (32:24) So that's also great. New cure pump change, but you're really healthy ourselves and no, he's good. He'll link that. For example, we can go onto pub med and we'll run a search for yeah. Basically you mitochondria and aging and we'll come up with heaps and heaps of like thousands of papers and we'll also want to search for mitochondria and disease and it will come up with tens of thousands of papers. So, and it's well established that mitochondria are extremely important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if, if our levels of mitochondria are really good, then then actually that is a sign that we are utilizing oxygen. So for utilizing oxygen our mitochondrial functioning is, is excellent. Now what he, what Dr. Frank Shallenberger saw from all these thousands of patients over, you know, 30 years of them coming to the clinic is that Mmm, anybody that had any kind of disease, whether it be cancer or order, immune disease and any kind of disease, then he would run this test and it will show that their oxygen utilization is poor. Speaker 3: (34:06) Wow. Man. He'll be fantastic for us all to do to, so no, we were a mitochondria because they're at the basis of all but an agent. Speaker 4: (34:14) That's right. Yeah. And he will also get healthy people coming into the clinic. So that was, you know, and that also Ronald, the other tests showing that they don't have any disease and the, what his tests will show is that the oxygen utilization is excellent. You know, their body's ability to take that oxygen and at the cellular level is really, really amazing. You'll also get like some seemingly people some people that come in that that are functioning quite well and same like they're pretty healthy, but they might have a tumor in the breast for example. And interestingly that tests that he'll do will show that actually the oxygen utilization is not that great. Wow. So he's, he's what is basically showing is he can actually see if the road, to me that's the dog by looking at your oxygen utilization and and so, Speaker 3: (35:32) So what does dr Shallenberger's, he's got his book, the title of his book. Have you got that in your mind? Because it's on my list, but I haven't got there yet. The ozone, the miracle is one of the miracle of ozone miracle. That was a miracle. There we go. I was AmeriCorps. So if you want to dive deeper into dr Shallenberger's work gone. Great bit. Okay. So, okay. So he's looking at the mitochondria cause we're running at a time. You can, we're going to have to speed it up. The, so your, your ability to use oxygen. So how can a ozone Theraphy help it? Speaker 4: (36:13) Sorry, I was on therapy. It's basically directly helping with, with that uptake of oxygen. So when you get this medical grade ozone into the body, it's, it's doing two things. It will have because it cha so it changes it sites very, very quickly because it's reactive. So it will have a little bit of oxidating power and we'll go directly after you know, disease cells themselves. And we all know that disease cells do not thrive in an oxygenated [inaudible]. Same thing. The other thing I was able to do when you get into the body, it will change its state and well form peroxides these yeah, these peroxides clicked flea and honors opioids. And this has a systematic function on the body where you're, yeah, just as something similar to create an upstate of stress. When, when you exercise for example, then you're creating a certain amount of free radicals and your system has to regulate, keep those free radicals in check. That's what it says. Therefore, so, and that's really important. So when, so when you when you get done and similar to when you exercise and your antioxidant system is enhanced and your body is basically stronger so systematically as helping your body fight, whatever's wrong with it, Speaker 3: (37:58) Whatever's wrong with it. So this is, this is why it's good. So what sort of diseases or problems can it be beneficial for? If we, if we did a, a list from a to Z or you know, some of the major players Speaker 4: (38:13) And we did a list from a to Z, then you can pretty much go through absolutely everything because it's going at the Coles of diseases. Speaker 3: (38:23) Sorry, sorry guys. Carry on. My mum has a tip habit of doing that and every one of my podcasts. Speaker 4: (38:36) So mostly when, when people come to ozone therapy though, they'll call me and they've gone to the doctor and they'll be diagnosed with a chronic disease, chronic condition. And that's stuff searched out there for everything known to man. They'll come across the ozone therapy. And honestly, it's such a broad spectrum humor. I've had people come to me and I've had every kind of thing under the sun and they'll say, can this help? And they'll tell me a little bit about it and I'll and I'll, yeah. Also, you know, trick the because it's, it's, there's over 1500 articles. For example, in the American society of ozone therapy on peer reviewed studies of ozone therapy. So, you know, I always like to point people directly to the research that's been done. What's the, is there a website that C A I R R T.com. Speaker 4: (39:38) Dot com if anyone wants to go and do some research. Okay. So it helps a broad range of diseases because it's getting to the actual base cause of the down, down low and what's happening. And you can also treat so you can treat systematically by, for example, going to the clinic during the auto homeopathy or direct IB or during your the Tampax Asia. Or you can do the home ozone therapy and it's easy at Texas. It doesn't cost very much and you can do it more often and it's, and it's just as powerful if you do the rectal insufflation systematically and then you can do the local administration the, the other kinds of routes depending on what your issues are. If you've got brain issues and you can do the air insufflation, anything to do yeah, anything going on up there and the ladies. So it will not thrush out after a single, really, at the very least, you can breathe those and edit oil for any kind of blind condition. Allergies, asthma, Candido. Yeah, yeah. So, and candida like often through the ear, that's where your husband and son, your son often widespread can do that. Yeah, it's often a sign of that. And so you can actually director directly through the ear and transdermally so you can do those notes on and that's really great for heart prevent heart disease prevention, prevention and treatment. And then you can actually bag any of your limbs. Speaker 3: (41:38) The plastic bag, top thing on sale, on the internet. Yeah, Speaker 4: (41:41) Yeah. Problems with veins or just, just aches and pains nerve issues or skin, particular kinds of skin conditions to trying to get it. Then we can either bag or you can use this as an oil. So basically the ozone is howled and the, and the oil and yeah, so I've been liking that for, for 15 years now and it's amazing. Like all the time. People come along and now they'll use it and I'll go, you know, cam, I've tried everything for my ex mouth. All my psoriasis. I've tried, I've honestly tried everything under the sun, but this is the only thing that's actually worked. Likewise for any kind of skin condition and also for gum disease and tastes and things. Speaker 3: (42:40) Dentists have actually used us, you know, that was one of the first, they were the first adopters of the suite. They, because for, for training their equipment. Yeah, Speaker 4: (42:48) That's right. Yeah. So you can so it's really, really powerful at disinfecting it as it will oxides any microbes. So bacteria yeses and every nook and cranny and used in dentistry. And they can also get directly into a root canal itself. And Speaker 3: (43:16) But it's before they put a tooth on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 4: (43:20) And, and dentistry, so, so used you can inject directly into joints just straight into your, your back and you've got a bulging disc or, or osteoarthritis in the knee. You can inject directly into the joints with those own instead of use and cortisone. Speaker 3: (43:38) Oh, Rocky. But again, you can't get that New Zealand probably Speaker 4: (43:43) You can and opened up to wine McCarthy. He offers it and fully trained and, and he does a range of ozone therapy. Speaker 3: (43:56) I have to get all those links off you show notes. Okay, so, so you've got these three molecules inside and it's, what's it actually doing? What some, so you've got either up, you know, the rectally vaginally in the ear through the oil transdermally Ivy, however you've managed to do it. What's it actually, so it's knocking out pathogens, it's taking out viruses. What's it doing in there? Speaker 4: (44:30) Yeah. So yeah, when, when it gets into the body there's two things that does there's limited effects from the ozone itself because ozone is very reactive so it changes it Cypress Cyprus quickly. So, but when it is set ozone, it will go after viruses, bacteria and oxidize them. It's very powerful oxidizer. The second thing it does is as, yeah as, as I mentioned before, it will change the state very quickly and to the proc sides. And yeah, basically getting yeah, your body into check systematically by creating that oxidate of stress, anti antioxidant, it's activated to balance out any theoretical sort of form from, from that. So keeping them in check and that has this wide systematic effect of yeah, really going at the root of cause of disease itself. And it's amazing. I tell you, well, I've had people that have been sent home, you know, various illness and told that, you know, it's so much more than I can do. Speaker 4: (45:44) And they get onto ozone therapy and the most powerful ways, and actually they do, they do really well. And if they get enough training, this is why we wanted to share all this information. Tell you something amazing that's going on with coronavirus at the moment and ozone therapy. I'm like the yeah, so the therapy has it has always been very, we're very well known treatment for infectious diseases. So and it was proven successful with SOLs. Oh, he had success with AIDS and we've got sort of studies on that and you can there's, there's one doctor, dr Robert Rowan. I highly recommend that you follow him on Facebook cause you have a time and now he actually went to West Africa and he had, you know, mess. He had real kind of your bureaucratic and get through and push him, push his way through the medical establishment there. But he was allowed to oversee the administration of direct. I was on auto hand me ups, the two, five Ebola cases and, and had really great success. And where as you know, there's this very made a coma if you come in and shut them down. Right? Yeah. It's an incredible story. Basically who actually contracted Speaker 3: (47:30) It weren't allowed to get their, and some of them died. And the ones who managed to the health workers who managed to get the ozone therapy survived. And this highlights a lot of the problems. Speaker 4: (47:43) Yeah. He's actually in New York city at the moment and he is administering ozone therapy to everybody that wants to yeah. Once he, he's right in the heart of New York city. So, you know, that's, that's what he's doing is offering ozone treatment for anyone that wants it if they can't afford it. Because we all know how the healthcare system is as an American. So he's, he's offering it for free if you can't afford it. And and, and people that are in the early stages, if they've been told that they should be in the hospital and on an NG beta, then legally he's putting everything at risk by trading them and the kind of suppressing that. But if, if you're in the early stages and then he'll treat people, but what's happening and places like Spain and Italy, also China there are, there they are treating we kind of have 19 patients and hospitals and coming out of Italy now is they've actually on their third report and they're just following the, the progress of COVID19 patients in a hospital environment. Speaker 4: (49:01) So two hospitals are in the study and now the retina, the stirred report of 75 covid 19 patients and what it's showing so the, so when, yeah, just understanding that if you go to hospital yeah, then you're already not in a very good way. So and actually for example, they're treating these people the, and they're and you can see all the statistics and the bladed it all out, but there's basically 14, nine non-integrated patients that that they've seen and of of those yeah, that stuff saying really messages of improvement. Yeah. For the ones that have been. Speaker 4: (50:04) And eventually, yeah, the Pope has really recorded it at all. I can give you the study that's saying a hundred percent efficiency for the, for the patients that were non intubated and in the early stages of COVID19. So they're calling it stage one and stage two. If you get in that early stages, then and you treated with the ozone therapy and getting them Derek direct divey then that getting bittering getting sent home basically there if you're intubated there, there are some that got extra debated so they got you know this is really super invasive. By the time you've got something stuck down your throat, then you're, you're already in extremely deep trouble. But I've managed to get some of them off there if they've managed to finish this round of I was in therapy treatment. They were, they showing that there were overall nine people that did die, that were in this hospital environment of the 73 patients that were treated. But those nine people, they were also showing that they didn't actually, they were in such bad state that they can actually finish. Speaker 3: (51:25) They were already intubated and they were already, they couldn't have enough of the ozone. It was too little, too late. Speaker 4: (51:31) But also what the shine as said only takes five sessions of this ozone. Oxygen therapy are painful to get. Right. So it's really quick. And that's also what I find with people that come to me, the various problems, chronic diseases being going through everything so long, they'll get onto ozone therapy and then quickly start getting better very, very quickly. Speaker 3: (51:53) This is super exciting. So we're going to have to wrap up again cause we've, we've, we've done a little, I know this is a big subject day and this, I was trying to push it along a little bit, but I wanted to get to the good stuff. Okay. So I want to get some of those links off you and, and you know, Dr. Wayne McCarthy and dr Robert Rowan. Perhaps you can give me the links. I can put them in the show notes. And your, so we can people reach out to you to find out more about what you are offering your machines. Where's the best place? Speaker 4: (52:28) So I'm a naturalozone.co.nz and all my details are, yeah. On the website. Just quickly, I'll just want to mention what's also extremely relevant in this, this time is actually our air resonators here, air ozone when you're not in the room. Because it's, we're basically, yeah. Going after really powerful, strong concentration of ozone and blasting a room. Then it will remove all viruses, bacteria, pathogens. It's week. Speaker 3: (53:08) No, you could, if someone's being like, you know, in a, in a office environment or factory environment or wherever someone's had the coronavirus or whatever, and you want to make sure you're home, you want to kill the virus, you get a, you'd get one of these, the room, get out of Speaker 4: (53:26) The room while you're doing it. Right? Yeah. And you know, every, like, honestly, every single public area, if it's used safely and you've, you know, after half an hour you can enter back into the room. Those zones dissipated. It's done. It's saying it's oxidized, it's environmentally friendly. It doesn't leave any chemical byproducts. I'm worried about that. That's right. You know, they're like, they're spraying everything with bleach. Speaker 3: (53:55) I want to go back to the gym, but I'm not going back to the gym. Not because of the Corona, but because of the chemicals that they're all spraying around everywhere. Speaker 4: (54:02) We've had this in daycare centers, I'll run it at night when everybody's gone, gone home. And this was before this all hit. But just to stop this spread of flus and colds and we've actually shown 30% reduction and yeah, colds and flus within the kids and stuff. And yeah, so cars, houses, what we're doing is becoming home with our groceries and sticking everything in a box. And I've just got these really small ozone generators and you just put the end of the tube in there and run it for a half an hour and all get into going to try and get touch all the surfaces. If you can get the high concentration, then it is proven that there is no microbe, that it's resistant to ozone Speaker 3: (54:53) Shoot. That is powerful come so that we can really, really protect yourself from whatever else. Speaker 4: (55:00) Yeah. So when, so when all this crisis set my phones yeah, it's just, it's still a, there's still a lot, not a lot of people that really know about it. And also this is kind of you out there are ozone, it's dangerous as bad if you breathe it, you're going to die and things like that. And all we're saying is if you cutting safety labels and everything, and if you, if you operate this machine safely, Speaker 3: (55:30) Every, everything is dangerous. If you use it the wrong way, car is dangerous. If you don't follow the rules on the road, you know that that should not be prohibited from us, from, from using it in, in the, in that when it's going to actually benefit their health. Speaker 4: (55:47) Correct. Yeah. And not, and not ruin the environment, you know, so, so it'd be the penetration than anything else in the market that we can see actually, because it's because it's a guest that we'll get to just to see the hidden areas and things. So Speaker 3: (56:11) What about ozone water? Just last thing. So putting ozone into the water Speaker 4: (56:17) Water is amazing for us. Yeah. And yeah, so we actually have just small resonate ozone generators. If all you want to do is drink ozonated water, it's getting enhanced active oxygen into the body. We should be drinking water anyway. Why not super charge oxygenated water. You can drink up to eight classes a day and you start off slowly and you and you build up drinking on an empty stomach and it's really great energy boost. Boost your immune system also on a water. The students, you know, the hand sanitizer is outside of all the supermarkets at the moment on a hand and these pop paper was skin conditions and things like that. We've got studies that show that ozonated water is significantly more effective than hand sanitizer and it's, and it's good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to dry. Our skin is actually really good for us. Yeah. Speaker 3: (57:30) Wow. That's powerful. Okay, so everybody go to naturalozone.co.nz. Check out all the machines that come here and what the different applications and you can, you can educate people to people. Buy something, a machine of you, you can educate them in the use of it and do that virtually or how do you do, do that? Speaker 4: (57:52) Yeah. Yeah. So give me a call if you're unsure where to start. And join our newsletter and we will have, we'll be coming out with more videos soon. And we also have oxygen concentrators when, when, what happened, when all this, when we started to go into lockdown because I have oxygen concentrators and stop cause I used in conjunction with industrialized zone and I was doing therapy then. Everybody started panic buying, well my oxygen concentrators. And we, we stopped up for on public and, and, and generally people are getting these as if you've got a lung condition and breathing oxygen or see if you've got SIO PD or if you're an S medic or something like that. Having a oxygen concentrator is a really good idea. Speaker 3: (58:54) Yeah. We've got one extra tour, hyperbaric just to top up, you know, mum's levels, you know, if she doesn't want to get into the chamber cause it's a big mission. Just to, just to have a top off, you know, it's a really good thing to have I think, and especially if you're going to get sick or anything, so. Speaker 4: (59:12) Sure. Speaker 3: (59:14) Okay. So you've got those as well. So you've got a whole re array of, of different devices and you know, the rectal staff and all that. You can explain it cause people would be like, how do I do that? Speaker 4: (59:26) Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, like usually, yeah, if you want to prevent disease and live a long and healthy life, I would really say, you know, at home I was on therapy is biohacking dream. And, and will save you lots of money in the, in the long term, cause you won't need to go to the doctor anymore and you won't need to get some fluids. Speaker 3: (59:51) But prevention isn't it? That's what we're all about, not being there, Speaker 4: (59:56) But usually what's happening. People get disease and they find out about ozone therapy that come to me. Right. But if you're not comfortable with our zone, at the very least drink that water, it's really good for us. Yeah. And, and drink that daily. Speaker 3: (01:00:11) Put it in your ear like that. That can't be too painful. Speaker 4: (01:00:15) Yeah. Speaker 3: (01:00:16) That's fantastic. Kim, thank you so much for your time and your information. I'll grab all those links off you. So naturalozone.co.nz. You've got any questions for Kim? Michelle, she'll answer those heavily for you. Get this word out there. We need to be sharing. This is why we have the show so we can share great information with each other and get, get that to the people that need it. So thanks very much for your time today. Come any last words before we go, Speaker 4: (01:00:41) But just, just thanks so much, Lisa, for having me on the show. Really enjoyed talking to you and yeah, look forward to your upcoming podcast and reading your book. Speaker 3: (01:00:51) Great. And now that we're connected, we'll be dangerous. Speaker 4: (01:00:54) Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1: (01:00:57) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

In this interview Lisa interviews Jez Morris, a clinical sleep physiologist on everything sleep apnoea and also cardiac testing. They do a deep dive into the symptoms and treatments and consequences of not picking up sleep apnoea.   Lisa has a personal interest in this as it pertains to brain function and rehabilitation and it was one of the key factors in saving her mum Isobel's life after a major aneurysm and stroke.  Jez explains the different types of sleep apnoea and co morbidities and risk factors.   You can visit Jez and his team at Fast Paced Solutions www.fastpacedsolutions.co.nz    About Fast Pace Solutions It was a common belief in the need for equitable health care – and improved accessibility for all – that led to three healthcare professionals joining forces to provide primary-based diagnostic services to GPs, specialists and concerned patients themselves. Fast Pace Solutions offers a range of cardiorespiratory diagnostic tests aimed at early and fast diagnosis of heart, lung and sleep-related complaints. Working closely with a range of health professionals and operating out of their new premises in the Strandon Professionals Centre, Michael Maxim, Jez Morris, and Alan Thomson want to encourage more people who have issues with breathing, dizziness, palpitations or sleep to get themselves checked out. Visit them at www.fastpacedsolutions.co.nz  Ambulatory Blood Pressure Monitoring Ambulatory blood pressure monitoring (ABPM) is concerned solely with detecting problems related to high blood pressure – a hugely significant health risk which is currently on the rise. Blood pressure monitoring involves wearing a cuff linked to a small device which measures your blood pressure every half hour (or hourly during the night) over a 24-hour period, while you go about your day. Many studies have confirmed this method is superior to clinic blood pressure testing in predicting future cardiovascular events and targeting organ damage. This means your doctor can provide a much more accurate diagnosis and effective management plan Holter Monitoring A Holter monitor is a small, lightweight heart rate monitor that measures the rhythm as well as the rate of your heart for a continuous period of 24 or 48 hours. The monitor has three leads which are attached to your chest via ECG electrodes. The Holter monitor's primary purpose is to correlate symptoms such as heart palpitations, rapid breathing or dizziness with the ECG (see below) and rule in or out any abnormal rhythm activity. The patient is required to document all symptoms in a diary. 24 Hour Holter Monitor Exercise Tolerance Testing An exercise tolerance test (or ETT) requires a patient to exercise on a treadmill in the clinic while being monitored by a 12-lead ECG (electrocardiogram) and blood pressure machine and is often used if we don't pick anything up on a Holter heart monitor. The ETT replicates how your body behaves under stress and can pick up issues such as angina and demonstrate how adequate your heart function is as well as your exercise tolerance. Chest pain and shortness of breath while exercising are common indicators for this test. Cardiac Event Monitoring Similar to a Holter monitor, but worn for a full week, cardiac event monitors (or cardiac event recorders) are used to correlate a patient's heart rate and rhythm to their ECG (electrocardiogram) over a period of 7 days. A cardiac event recorder is preferred when symptoms are less frequent and allows a patient to activate an "Event" button to snapshot a rhythm when they experience any abnormal symptoms. It is often used for younger patients. 7 Day Holter ECG and Oximetry An electrocardiogram (ECG) measures the electrical activity of your heart via 12 leads attached to your chest and body. It takes only a few minutes and records your heart's rhythm, checking for abnormal activity which may indicate damage to your heart or blood vessels caused by high blood pressure. An ECG can detect problems long before they become significant issues. In fact, everyone over the age of 45 should have an ECG. Oximetry measures your oxygen levels while you sleep, or for selected hours of the day. Resting ECG Sleep Studies Getting enough quality sleep at the right times can help protect your mental health, physical health, quality of life, and safety. Snoring is one of the most under-acknowledged symptoms in the management of health. Although often seen as a benign problem, it can cause disharmony in relationships as well as significant disruption to sleep. Ongoing sleep deficiency can raise your risk for some chronic health problems such as high blood pressure, heart failure, diabetes and many breathing disorders – sleep apnoea is a major cause of cardiac and respiratory issues. We offer an advanced at home sleep study to assess the severity of snoring/sleep apnoea and impact of cardiac and respiratory health. Level 3 Sleep Study Level 4a Sleep Study (Oximetry)   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Welcome back to the show. This week I have an exciting episode with a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, who's been a friend of the family for years and we've actually been in business together. We had a hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic, but today we're going to be talking about sleep apnea, what it is, what the risks are involved when you have sleep apnea, how to assess it. The symptoms and sinuses are really, really important topic. It's so important that, you know, I don't believe that my mum would be alive if we hadn't picked up that she had sleep apnea. So it's a very interesting episode to learn all about sleep, what it does for your body, and it's a really fantastic interview. So I hope you enjoy the show with, jeez Morris. Um, just a reminder to I have my new book relentless out, which is available on my website. Speaker 2: (01:03) Um, it tells a story and part of that story, uh, from bringing her back, uh, from a major aneurism, a part of that rehabilitation journey was, uh, diagnosing her with sleep apnea in dealing with that. So it's really pertinent to today's topic. Um, I am currently working on a brain rehabilitation course that I'm going to be offering to people since the release of my mom's book and the story of her, um, incredible, amazing comeback journey, um, from being not much over a vegetative state to being now fully functioning again, um, fully healthy. Um, I have been inundated with requests for people wanting help with brain rehabilitation, whether it's strokes, dementia, Alzheimer's, uh, TBIs, concussions and so on. So I'm in that, in the throws of making that course because, uh, you know, I just can't deal with so many one-on-one. Um, so look out for that. It's going to be available hopefully within the next couple of months if I can get my energy. Um, and really looking forward to sharing that with the world as well on the back of this book. So right now let's go over to James Morris and learn all about sleep apnea. Speaker 2: (02:16) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here. and pushing the limits. So thank you for being with me again today. I have a friend of mine who is a sleep physiologist, a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, how are you doing? Geez. Oh, very, very good now. Um, jeez and I have a bit of a history together. Um, I'm uh, he, when my mum had a stroke and everyone knows that she had an aneurysm and a stroke a few years ago, um, and I was doing better with the hospital because I wanted the sleep apnea test done and I couldn't get one done. Um, saved for going to my friend dues who is asleep physiologists and saying, geez, can you come and help me please? Can we do a test? Um, we did that um, slightly against the roles Speaker 3: (03:00) at the hospital at the time, wasn't that, uh, we came back with severe sleep apnea with oxygen and then was at the worst point at around 70% during the night, which is pretty disastrous. So I'm going to talk to you today with uh, jeez about, um, sleep apnea, what it is, what you need to be aware of. And we're also going to go into a new cardiac system that is, that got there. That's going to be really interesting. So jeez, firstly, thank you for helping me back then. My pleasure. I don't know if my mum would be sitting here today. I'm healthy and well, if it wasn't for you coming in and doing a stake assessment, it's that important and this is why the subject is really important to me to get out there and to let people know about this. So just can you just tell me a little bit your background, um, and then you know, what is sleep apnea? Speaker 3: (03:52) Okay. My background is actually an anesthetic technology. I used to work as an anesthetic technician here at base. Um, and as the years went by I got approached by a colleague of mine yeah. And T surgeon David Tolbert who was on a real interest in sleep, Mmm. Apnea because of the upper airway and asked me if I could help him with regards to treatment. And that the relationship developed and I got really interested in this area because it's so fascinating that eventually we set up I primary based sleep clinic that then sort of spread a bit and there's quite a few around the country. Um, because sleep is something we all take for granted in some respects, but it actually has a significant role within normal health. Hmm. So that, that's, that's how I started in this field. I'm still doing it 18 years later. Speaker 3: (04:47) Yep. And you've, so you've had a series of clinics throughout New Zealand at one stage and um, yeah, sleep apnea is what is it defined as specific place? So w w how, you know, people hear this word but they don't often know what the heck it means. Okay. So sleep apnea is a condition that has pretty sure, I realize it basically pauses in breathing during sleep, uh, for a number of reasons. Um, it affects about two to 7% of the population. However, that's with moderate to severe. Um, basically, but what we talk about now is sleep disordered breathing because we know there's a range of respiratory sleep issues affecting the patient. So sleep apnea itself is fundamentally, you can tell, cause if you've got obstructive sleep apnea, which is the main one [inaudible] it's a classic symptom. So all sleep obstructive sleep apnea, but not everybody who shores has obstructive sleep apnea. Speaker 3: (05:56) Okay. So that's key. So snoring is, is like, um, a pain in a joint. If we are a runner or sports person, if you get pain in your neck, you don't tend to ignore it. Yeah. You want to know what's happening because it's an abnormal process, right? Shoring is an app, normal process. And as a symptom of something, it could be benign, it may not. So we actually say that up to about 20% of the population will suffer from pathological or issues related to snoring. And that's the key here. So if you snore to start, you really should just get it checked out. We know that snoring gives you a higher chance of developing high blood pressure. Hmm. Um, from there, high blood pressure can lead to other cardiac and physiological issues. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's where we start. Okay. The most common is obstructive sleep apnea. Speaker 3: (06:57) Then we move into things like central sleep apnea. That's what mum has. Yeah. Because basically if we see these conditions, there's lots of reasons why we'll see central sweep here. We see it in severe cardiac problems and basically it's a miscommunication where you just physically stopped breathing. So obstructive apnea is the, is the airwaves physically shutting off? Yeah. So you get this jerky movement of patients who have got it until they breathe. Central sleep apnea is a pause, just a stop in breathing. Wow. So they will be breathing quite normally. Then they stop, go silent. There's no effort to breathe nothing. Um, and you can see it for a number of reasons. In your mom's case, it was due to a stroke, uh, that caused her to stop breathing. But we see it in neurological conditions. We see it in change. Stokes breathing is a common cause of central apnea change. Speaker 3: (07:58) Stokes is a word that sort of worries me when I heard that. It's what we tend to see in the pre pre mortal issue. So just before people die, they go into this change. However, there's 31 reasons we see more, more that we can see, change, dehydration, heart conditions, all sorts of things because there's not, it's a metabolic condition. It's why we get changed up. So anything that can cause a metabolic issue can cause change steps. Yup. And this is this waxing and waning of, of the respiratory pattern. The center of a nice smooth process. This is what got a particular sound to it. Speaker 3: (08:48) It's usually, it's, it's a form of hyperventilation. She'll see the patient sort of get deeper and deeper, deeper, and then weighing off again and then flat. So people refer to it sometimes as like a death rattle. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a scary, scary way. And so that's, and so that's happens when you've got a central problem that can happen. Central sleep apnea can be caused by different Cheyne Stokes is one pot, one tile of central apnea. Some people just physiologically stop breathing. Yeah. Because of a stroke or a head injury, a neurological condition. Something in the brain that's been affected by the strokes, our blood supply to a particular gland or a particular part of, uh, of the primary. Primarily. Yeah. Neurological. Yeah. Primarily. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right, so that's two of them. Is there a, is there a third variation? There's a few other ones. Speaker 3: (09:50) We've got hyperventilation, which is, um, a reduction of breathing of at least 50% in the, in the volume of breath, but taking with a subsequent, um, reaction. So in other words, you know, your oxygen level starts to drop or you physiologically wake up. Yeah. Uh, hyperventilation in itself, I mean, everyone will stop breathing and the brief assert, so about two, about five times out, we're not going to stress too much about it from a risk perspective, but hyperventilation, we're seeing more and more because like obstructive sleep apnea, one of the main cause of that is weight. Obesity is, is, you know what I mean? Again, within healthcare, I know that people feel that we pushed away question a lot, but obesity with good is a significant health issue that we're not, we don't seem to be successfully addressing. Yep. So you've then got hyperventilation syndromes, you've got obesity hyperventilation syndrome that can be significant, uh, detrimental to long term health. Speaker 3: (11:01) Yeah. Okay. And this has seen a bit of a, um, you know, a circle because what's your, what's your obese and then you have this, then you'll get more obese because there's, there's a big, big connection between things like leptin levels and stuff that control appetite, especially in fragmentation. Yeah. So theoretically you mean the worst you sleep the hungry you are. Because at the end of the day, that's how we function as, as a survival mechanism, as a building. Yet, if we're feeling low on energy, we tend to eat to get fuel to feel energetic. Unfortunately, a lot of the foods that we might grate to when we're feeling like that tend to be the highest fat snacky type foods. So in a lot of cases, people who are, who are significantly overweight may not eat big meals, but they eat are very, but a lot of very small, high fat milk, which compounds the issue. Yeah. Speaker 2: (12:01) And that's done in Graham on as being a part of that equation. Yeah. So your satiation mechanisms aren't quite as good and of course when you, when you're not sleeping well, I mean there's, there is a whole lot of knock on effects, which I've talked about on a couple of episodes on the podcast. So it all starts to tie into to each other and has huge impacts on your, your mental health, your physical health, your brain, you know, mission, everything. Speaker 3: (12:29) Yeah. Well what we tend to see in people who to be, cause that's what we're really pushing her obstructive sleep apnea. These patients will first of all go to bed. They'll then start to sleep, start to snore. So sleep in itself. It's a very complex process. People always think you're awake, you're asleep. That's it. It's not. We talk, we talk in w we talk about sleep architecture, how your sleep is structured. So for the first seven minutes or so stage one sleep, that's the time you're getting comfortable, your eyes are closed. It's not true sleep. It's that like pre sweet sort of process. Then then we're supposed to drop into stage two, which is what we define as true sleep is when you actually go to sleep physiologically things start to settle down. You're hearing still going so you can still be erased at that stage and we spend 20 to 25 minutes there and then we move into what we call Delta wave sleep stages for him. When the brain goes into that slow wavy pattern, so you've basically got an inactive mind instill a veritable active body so you can still Twitch and stop after about 90 minutes of these processes you then stack and drop into what is REM sleep, Speaker 2: (13:44) which is that Speaker 3: (13:46) dream fell asleep. Yeah. Which is very, very important within a human, so like, and then we just cycle through that every 90 minutes or so. So you get to have about five, six, seven periods of REM during the night. What we tend to see in people with obstructive sleep apnea is that they'll start to snore at stage one too. Stages three four they'll start to obstruct. Once they stopped breathing, about six seconds later, their oxygen levels start to drop. We then get this sympathetic nerve activation that causes them to physiologically wake up to their heart, beats faster, that blood pressure goes up. Um, and it brings them back to a stage where the obstruction disappears, which may be level one, level two, but that Reiki did deep sleep. And then a lot of cases that these patients don't get true REM periods, pure sleep architecture. Speaker 3: (14:43) It's completely fragmented. And we're talking, and we, I've seen people stop breathing, I mean over a hundred times an hour, which means is that our heart rate variability is phenomenal during the night. So in effect, these people are working harder to sleep, to stay awake. So of course, but the body's a learning mechanism, it starts to say, well, I'm burning more energy doing this than I am by just staying awake. So people tend to start to develop this really bad sleep pattern where they can't get to sleep properly or they wake up frequently during the night. So you mean, you mean sleep is really important for things like growth hormone production, cortisol productions, all of these things. Your adrenals have hormones. They have very poor short term memory, their fatigue, blood pressure tends to be high and you mean eventually things are going to shut off. Speaker 3: (15:40) Yeah. And, and your health is going to seriously be a farrier, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And this is, this is so it's so important and just not, you know, all the sort of stuff needs to be taught at school. So what happens in the sleep process? Cause we all just fake. We go to bed and we go to sleep. You know, we don't know about deep sleep and REM sleep and in the life stages of sleep and how it, how it actually affects our physiology the next day and how our brain function isn't going to work. And what about the, I read a study recently on the brainwashing. Yeah. Function that happens when we're in asleep and that the brain shrinks. You're talking about, yeah. You're talking about amyloid. Cool. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Speaker 3: (16:24) Which is good when we're young because I think, I mean, this is getting into real neurophysiology. So, excuse me. So basically when you're growing or developing synopsis, it sits with that neuro logical function. Mmm. It's a, it's a byproduct of metabolism, of neurophysiological by metabolism and needs to be washed out. Um, which tends to happen during sleep while you were asleep and we beat her is dispersed ready for the next day. So it washes out the break. Yeah. Yep. It's a brainwash. That's what they're calling it. Yeah. They flush it out. Yep. And is it important a protein, but it flushes out all the and the rent. However, what we find sleep apnea patients or insomnia patients and where is that? I don't fully do they, that's why they wake up feeling groggy. Yeah. Yeah. Confused sometimes. Um, we noticed in outside of ms patients that there is a significant higher level within Sam or in place. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that is an important function as well. And we can see that not just in sleep pattern. We can see that in insomniacs and people. Wow. Wow. That is fascinating because if we not washing out those plaques every day and getting rid of them as that cause they build up when we're awake, from what I understand, we're functioning. Yeah. It starts to up over time. And this, Speaker 2: (17:50) you know, over a period of 20 years can lead to where they're suggesting it can lead to Alzheimer's. Early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long side process. So if we can get it early, we can, we can stop that process happening. Um, and this is really, this is the whole point of this conversation is, is to get people to be aware of what are the signs of sleep apnea, what are the things that are going to happen when you're asleep as off. Um, and what we can do about it. Um, uh, you know, we referred, um, just a bit earlier to mum's story. Um, and mum was in the hospital, excuse me, um, for three months and she'd been in Wellington, uh, in the acute phase and the ICU and then in the neurological ward down the air and she'd been on supplemental oxygen. Speaker 2: (18:36) Um, when, when she came back through to new Poloma, she was taken off of supplemental oxygen cause she was now stabilized if you like. Um, and I noticed that she was gone from terrible to really, really terrible. Like there was hardly any higher function going on at all. Um, and that's when my brain started to tick over and you know, my history with, you know, um, training at altitude and data races at altitude and I'd seen like things like she had a bacteria in the mouth that was just doing gross, horrible things. Yeah. And that was a really a signal to me like, Hmm. Bacteria, lack of oxygen. Uh, jeez. Sleep apnea basically was the connection that I made there. Um, oxygen in the body, you know, and lack of oxygen causes bacteria to spread and, and proliferate. Um, so it's really, really important that we, we address this. This is not something we should be putting off. So you is inherit in your clinics, you would do the sleep assessment on people, which is an overnight procedure or a test. Speaker 2: (19:44) Then if someone comes back with sleep apnea, they get a C-PAP machine? Well, it depends, right? So first of all, the key to anyone as to acknowledge that they have sleep patient. So the reason we can tell people who have sleep issues is people always say, you're mean I have sleep problem, but during the day they still function. Normally people with a true sleep problem don't function so well. So that constantly fatigued. Yeah. Tired, short term memory, it's usually quite poor because they're not dreaming. And part of the process of dreaming is the burn information to a hard drive if you like. So if you're not dreaming, you're not retain that information. So short term memory tends to disappear. There's petite. Quite often they're slightly on the higher. So those are the key things. Now I definitely, yeah, if you're not snoring, it's not obstructive sleep apnea, but it could be upper airways resistance syndrome or something like that. So in other words, you're having difficulty breathing during the night. Speaker 3: (20:47) People often wake up for headaches. They often wake up during the night, Speaker 3: (20:51) um, maybe once or twice. Um, so these are the common symptoms we see meet. But 70% of most GP consults will involve the word fatigue. Tired, no energy. Yeah. So that should be your key. If you're feeling tired during the day, most people come by their GPS because the GPS are becoming more and more aware of sleep specific. Um, because we spend one third of the day doing it. Yeah. Um, we would then go through a simple questionnaire like you're tired and scale Epworth sleepiness score is that, is that common tired and scale that we use to address how try it or how it affected people. And this involves eight simple questions about the ability to fall asleep doing certain things. And I would have run this through with Uma and basically it's things like if you sat reading a book, what's your chance of falling asleep? Yeah. Not possible. Moderate be high or high or sitting at traffic lights. Um, you mean what's the chances of you falling asleep? And believe it or not, there are people who want to positively, hi. Oh God. Every question. I remember one person telling me in Oxford, he said, I said, yeah, I mean, it's not very good if you're falling asleep at traffic lights. And he said, yeah, we can, we can sit for 20 minutes to traffic lights. So maybe we need to readdress it so that we're sleeping. Speaker 3: (22:17) Then we would probably carry out for most people who complain of sleep. The first thing I think to do would be to carry out a very simple respiratory sleep study and there's a couple of types you can do at home. There's all this imagery which surely looks up to gin levels during your sleep and that's a little clip that you wear on your finger, touched with a little monitor, some of wireless, they go on the watches and that's the simplest way and it has a very good correlation to sleep apnea so we can use it as a very simple cheap test. Yeah. As an a level three sleep study, which looks at as a thoracic efforts. So we're looking for specific obstructive central events or under breathing with a nasal cannula, an oxygen saturation monitor, and they can be done at home. Yeah, every simple test I can give us really detailed information, but level two sleep studies is when you're getting into neurophysiology side of sleep. Speaker 3: (23:16) Now 96% of sleep disorders. Alright. There were spiritually, mostly the very small percentage are the neurological disorders that we see that REM behavior disorders, the narcolepsy's, all of those more complex disease States that really require much higher levels of Oh, acuity and testing. Right. But the majority, and that's a medicine what we're supposed to address, the majority of patients can be, can be looked at from a respiratory. Yep. Um, once we get a test, we can then identify the severity of any underlying respiratory problem. No. Talk about sleep. Obstructive sleep apnea, which is where we get airway physically closes during the night. Yep. We talk about mild, moderate, severe. Yeah. Mine is any and vent above five to 15 events. Then we talk about moderate, which is 15 to 30 events an hour and anything over 30 we talk about severe. Yeah. This scale is really more focused on funding of therapies. Speaker 3: (24:27) Yeah. It's on impact of disease. That's terrible. Well, we know that people with certain tend to have a higher risk morbidity, mortality, but we also know that people with moderate with other pathology, awesome have significant risks. But more and more evidence is saying that if you don't treat the mild, they will become exactly there. Related to it is at the bottom of the cleft problem that we have. It's like fun. It always comes down to funding not how healthy you're going to be, but you'll be basically that's sleep apnea. Yep. Obstructive sleep apnea, obstructive sleep apnea can't be treated. Yeah. That's the good thing. What we talk about is things like conservative measures. Conservative measures are always going weight loss. Yeah. Fitness levels. Yep. Cause obviously the fitter you are just sending you out in the majority of cases. Yes. Um, so those are, those are simple things you can do to help. Speaker 3: (25:40) However the research is not green. Yup. Yup. For ag. And then we're moving more into the surgical options. Obviously you've got the weight related surgery, which is very difficult. Very Patrick. Yeah. To get, quite often we look at the upper airway as being part of dish mechanism that's causing the issue finish things like the obvious nasal deviations that we can. But you can see the obvious ones from rugby Plains, but obviously there are also, there's also subtle deviations. Then there's things within the knees or pathway that can cause problems. Their adenoids leaving you. Now tonsils is a controversial area in the area of sleep medicine. Yep. Because tonsils or something that's roughly what disappears. We get, Oh yeah, yeah. Um, however, saying that it would be the conversations I have with GPS about this is quite interesting because being in this, but I look at tonsils and everybody, well look at the back of the throat cause I'm looking at what we call a modern putty index, which is how far back the larynx and the size of the tongue. Speaker 3: (26:54) Um, but also I'm looking at tonsils and quite frequently you'll see extremely large asymptomatic in males predominantly. Wow. So if you've got tonsils that are kissing but asymptomatic, which means you don't get tonsillitis as such, then they're going to be causing an issue. Yeah, sometimes. Yep. Yes. Well in children now for sleep disorders. Um, the first line of therapy, children who might snort snoring to all the parents out there in children is not, it's not cute. It's not cute. And noise from a child while they sleep, um, is not cute cause they're supposed to be perfect breathers. Yup. But the first line of therapy, now children, but snoring or anything like that, just taking out there, don't bother with sleep studies. They just take out the tonsils and the admins, which in a significant number of cases can improve it. And there was a study out of the States where they took, uh, patients, children diagnosed with ADHD, trying to remember the study. Speaker 3: (27:56) Yep. And what they did was, uh, they took this group of patients were all treated, remove tonsils and adenoids. And what they found was that 50% of them, I think it was 50% ended up being taken off that Ritalin medication because it was hype. Children react differently to tiredness than adults. We get, we get authentic, we get children get hyperactive when they're tired. And we've seen that because everyone who knows your kids and then they crash. Yeah, exactly. Cause what they are is tired. Yeah. So when they get tired they send them like they run around. Speaker 3: (28:33) So surgery, surgery can help in some cases with obvious deformities. Um, success rate surgery for sleep apnea in the mild to moderate, probably about 63%. Wow. And surgery like anything carries Chris from an aesthetics from the surgery itself. So it's not a guaranteed cure. Then we're moving into things like most guides, uh, mandibular splints that designed the whole, the jewel in a prominent position pulling the, pulling the tunnel way from the back of the throat because as you fall asleep, nobody can physically swallow that up. Yeah. But their tonnes can drop back and include the airway. That's why in recess we pull the jaw forward. If you pull the jaw forward, your pull the tongue away from the back of the truck making that larger space. Monday splints can work very well. Um, there's different types of over the cancer, not so successful, but one is designed by a specialist orthodontist of which there are a number now in the country, um, can have an 80 plus percent success rate. Speaker 3: (29:39) That can be very good, but I probably won't be able to do that work very well. Okay. Yeah. Um, for more mild cases and some moderates, there's a thing called microvalve, Serafin therapies, Sarah events. These are the things you stick a little plastic over your nose and what they do is you breathe in normally through lots of holes, but as you breathe through your nose, lots of the valves closed down and one valve remains open. So you get like a, what we call a valve silver effect, like blowing through your nose and that back pressure keeps the airway splinted open. Wow. So it's a physiological form of C-PAP, which is what, yeah. Yeah. What's his, what mom's got like a sticking plaster that you see some athletes or is it on the inside? The strips on the outside. I for anatomical for collapse where the AOS actually collapse. Speaker 3: (30:45) So those things pull the nose. I was slightly out. These things stick over the, there's over the holes here. Oh yeah. That there. Interesting to work with. Very interesting feeling. But they can work. Probably don't use that run ongoing costs. You've got to use them every day. If you don't use them, it comes back. Yeah. So they're quite expensive. Right. But as an alternative to seatbelt, there's also this tummy device that don't think we turn the stabilizing device, the TST, very bizarre looking device that basically works upon the fact that if your tongue falls back, you pull your tongue forward. Now in the old days, very old days of anesthesia, we used to have a thing called a tongue clip, but we could collect the tongue, pull it out to open up the airway. Um, we've moved on from there. This is a TSD is like a suction device that you squeeze, stick your tongue in and it sucks your tongue forward. Speaker 3: (31:47) Yup. They read it to be cheap. Some people swear by them. I've tried most of these things. I couldn't sleep with it. This is the, it isn't, but it is an option. It is an option to try the only thing guaranteed to reverse sleep apnea. Yeah. Or it is what we call continuous positive airway pressure. Yup. And basically in simple terms is a pneumatic splint, so it blows air into the airway via either a nasal mask or a full face mask. Yup. While you're asleep, um, you can get very little cushions now that you wear like oxygen, things that can also be used for this machine. Um, and that blows air in. So when you breathe, you're breathing out against pressure so that then hold the airway open. Yeah. It's a new magic process. So you breathe in and out again to this flow or like that if you can wear it is guaranteed to reverse obstructive sleep apnea. Speaker 3: (32:55) Yeah, it's gold standard for therapy. And interestingly enough, it's only been around since about 1982 so relatively new therapy, but is now widely used worldwide for, that's the one that mum's got. Um, and she has to wear it every night and all night. Um, and you know, it's quite an invasive thing to have on. It's not pleasant for her. Um, having the central, uh, sleep apnea is guaranteed in that case? Like with obstructive or is it a bit, a bit more, it really depends upon that the, the, the reasoning behind the central event. Yeah. Um, in most cases it can improve it to an extent that it's okay. Um, in some cases it doesn't, but we stop an obstructive component. It proves your physiology changed to make the change they him and go away. There are some machines that are specifically designed to treat certain types of breathing, like Cheyne Stokes, the ASB system. Speaker 3: (34:03) Yeah. That can only be used. There are certain, a very small group of patients who can't use ASP because there's a higher risk of problems. Right. Like with any therapy, there's always risks. CPR tends to be generally safe if used appropriately in the right patients. And there are then machines that will provide backup. Correct. So if the machine senses that you're not breathing, it doesn't ventilate you, but it reminds you to take a breath. Yep. So we can use things called by levels or bilateral S T's with, with a minimum respiratory REM required. Yeah. So it will, it will. If you stop breathing, it will cook you with air to say take a breath. Is it the machine that mum's got? You know, because it regulates when she's breathing it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then when she stops breathing or you hear the machine crank up, yeah, you might, your mom's on auto type ventilate auto sheet. We'll have backup, right? Yeah. Right. And this is similar to what I've been delayed heroes in the hospital and not flight. Speaker 3: (35:17) C-PAP is not ventilation. C-PAP. C-PAP is stopping a reverse vacuum cleaner to your nose and away you go. It's, it's, it's helping. It's not breathing for you. It's like a walking stick. It's making your breathing more effective than if you weren't using it. I know ventilator is physically breathing for you. Now there are two types of ventilator says invasive ventilation. Well there's noninvasive ventilation. Noninvasive ventilation is legacy pap, but basically that the pressures are split. So you breathe in at one pressure and you breathe out at another pressure. Yep. And there is a, that can be a backup rate added to that. So that's, that's term. There's noninvasive ventilation. Those are the ones we tend to see used on patients with hyperventilation syndrome or severely large patient who cannot tolerate time levels of C-PAP. Breathing against the pressure of 10 centimeters may not be as bad, but the minute you start to get to 60 18 prep coming sent to me is a pressure that's a hurricane blowing, you know, so then we need to look at how we change. So we have an inspiratory pressure pressure, noninvasive ventilation. So in any form of respiratory failure, which is the end game of some disease States, they work really, really well. And it's becoming more and more used as opposed to inter invasive ventilation in a lot of cases. Now I've just read some reports out covert, they're starting to look at noninvasive ventilation as an alternative, right? Probably with noninvasive ventilation. Speaker 3: (37:04) Oh yeah. So you've gotta be really tough and the other ventilator, no, see, perhaps not recommended covert patients anyway, even though it's starting to be used as an alternative, but needs to be used very carefully. And we've got, um, uh, I've been looking at the research. Of course, Jason and I had a hyperbaric oxygen clinic, which we opened up to mum's story. Um, but the hyperbaric and covert, um, it's showing promising results. Uh, I, I saw, I saw that, yeah. The issue with coach, we're in the infancy of a disease state. We don't know what the longterm benefits, risks, outcomes next 10 years, 20 years of research is going to be around the last three. But hell's happened to us. So we keep on sleep apnea. Speaker 3: (38:07) Yeah, very true. But yeah, so, so, so treatment for sleep apnea with with C-PAP is very, very common. It's effective. Um, we really started to look at muscle diseases well because what we noticed with patients with mild disease, so they can still suffer all the same as severe disease. They can still be cycling, hypertensive or control. They can still be difficult to control diabetics. They can still suffer extreme daytime tiredness, um, and things like that. So, so C-PAP can be used as a management tool from mold too severe. Yep. So we were one of the first groups that probably made it more available to the mind. Yeah. Cases because in our opinion, the benefits fired out, weighed and the risks associated with treatment and at the end of the day, every therapy of any kind should be the decision that the patient not absolutely. Speaker 3: (39:10) Depending on what that treatment is, of course, and something like that. I don't see very low risk with a high reward in medicine. That's what we're looking. Is there any difference between when you were, say I'm now reading a sleep thing study last week is sleeping on your side versus sleeping on your back and can you actually sleep, and this is a question after I read that I was on your back all the time because of the sleep app machine. Is she actually able to sleep on the side? Yeah, of course she is. The machine she has got will automatically adjust for any change impression, so it will go up or down as required. Yeah. That's the benefits of that type of machine that that algorithm look. Positional sleep. Yes. You can talk to any partner who has suffered a partner who snores after a glass of wine or beer or whatever. Speaker 3: (40:05) We always poke them to roll them onto their site. Positional treatment for snoring can work and it's one of the conservative methods we recommend you. I mean there are very fancy machines are designed to be worn around the neck. Um, tell it when you were starting to. Sure. And then it plus as you would look for the electric shops to turn you on your side. Wow. The, the, the most practical tool you've got for positional sleep apnea is what your grandmother would have said, which is show up button in the back of your pajamas or get a tennis ball with a loop of elastic. Thread it through. I'm wearing like a backpack and that physiologically keep you on your side. There's no doubt that we can see. So obviously Pat on the back because all this depression is pushing down on their side. All that is moved away from, especially on the left side. Wow. If you turn onto your left, it's easier to breathe. That's why in the recovery position we turn people to their left. Wow. Speaker 3: (41:09) Pressure on their, on their venous return helps improve blood pressure, but it also moves and everything away from, from where your track here. So, um, you know, I, I sleep on my side but when I sleep on my left I can always feel my own heartbeat and then I always get worried. I'm putting pressure on my heart on the other side. If anything, if anything, probably be more on the right cause that's why we talk about pregnant women with debt gravid uterus. If you, if you lay on your side, that weight comes on to the vena cave on the right side. So actually restricts blood flow, especially return. Yeah. So your blood pressure theoretically needs to be higher. So in medicine we tend to turn people onto their left side and especially pregnant, when will we say light his left side. Great tap. Positional sleep can work very, very well in those people who are purely shorts. Speaker 3: (42:09) Yep. Yeah. It makes slightly improved sleep apnea, but because of all the other factors involved, it's not always there. Okay. But a sleep study, you can tell us that because part of the sleep study told us which side the patient is sleeping on when is happening. Yep. And we can, we can see that so we can recommend position therapy. What about like, um, I know it was several and you probably have a, have a crack at me for talking about him on the phone. Guys. I, he, he sits on his back and he sleeps on the couch. He wants to sit. I sit him up higher with pillows, um, in behind them and then a snoring is a lot less. Yeah, if you laying flat, yeah, it's okay to raise the head of the bedside. If you get a raise, the head of the bed, it's always been to put a pillow under the mattress as opposed to empty your head because the biggest problem is it a head forward and you make this more obstructive. Oh, if you want to put it in the yourself and put it in the shoulders, your headsets slightly flat or sniffing the morning air. This is the position we used to call it an anesthesia. So their head is flushed back, straightens the airway and it's easier to temporary sleeping in a chair. It's not a cool thing because you're not going to, you're not going to sleep, you're not going to sleep as well. Especially in patients who let's say have respiratory problems COPT they've got what we call overlap syndrome, so they've got sleep apnea. Speaker 3: (43:42) They tend to sleep in chess cause they feel they can breathe each year. The problem is is it's not very good for you from a health perspective and sleeping setup because of venous return, pressure on the kidneys and the heart. Other things probably blood flow to the brain. Yeah. Yeah. So if, if people are sleeping checks because we find it easier to sleep than they really need to be assessed to find out. I've got another fatal on my hands coming up. I can say yes for a number of reasons. Sleep apnea. Interestingly enough, we talked about it being related to obesity and other disease States, but it's also predominantly higher in men than women until about the age of 50. So postmenopausal women trach it to men very fast and it tends to be the effects of, it tends to be than what we see on men. Speaker 3: (44:33) Um, is that the weight gain side of what happens is because of the loss of certain hormones in postmenopausal women, especially around respiratory issues, um, we tend to see more in Mali, men especially but also higher percentage. So there is a ethnic link, we're not sure if that's because of body habitus to that. So the shape of the body and the upper airway rather than that, it just isn't working out, whether it's the increased weight, shorter neck, things like that. So yeah, so you mean there is, there should be a definite and I think there is a definite push within modem to check sleep apnea. If you've ever been onto a Mariah, not a pilot in a positive way. So you want me to probably one of the best places to have a sleep person would be on my mind very quickly identify and this is why, you know, sharing this sort of information so that people can directly, because it's with all, you know, all the health stuff that I talk about. Speaker 3: (45:40) Um, you know, it's being informed. It's knowing that the stuff is out there. It's being aware that there is a, perhaps a problem that needs to be checked as the first line of getting people in the door. You mean if you want to look statistically around research, you know what I mean? You ask three times more likely to have a stroke. If you have sleep pap, you're three times more likely to die. If you have sleep apnea, you're significantly more likely to develop diabetes. If you have sleep or especially what we call uncontrolled diabetes, you're more likely to develop heart problems, more likely to develop respiratory problems. I mean, we're talking significant percentages. If you look at something like what we call label hypertension, so blood pressure that is difficult to control. 80% of patients with difficult to control blood pressure will have some varying levels of sleep. Speaker 3: (46:29) Disordered breathing. Yup. 55% of cardiac patients, especially at S patients will have a compending or causative sleep disordered breathing. Yep. So the numbers start to stack up more and more and more. We're looking at nighttime physiology as a D as a predictor for daytime, especially around things like blood pressure. 24 hour blood pressure now is something that's becoming standard practice because we've historically treated blood pressure on one off. Yeah. Precious. Yeah. When we're noticing that nocturnal hypertension is a better predictor of cardiovascular mortality and morbidity than daytime blood pressure. Wow. So more and more GPS now are moving towards 24 hour blood pressure. You know, you go to your GP and he asked for it. Speaker 3: (47:23) Yet there's a few GPS in town who will do 24 hours. Most of the GPS will refer into somewhere like this where we were doing quite a few 24 hour blood pressures and Holter monitoring. Because my area of special interest has always been the impact of sleep on cardiovascular disease or on on cardiac health, which was why I've sort of moved into that sideways, into more cardio-respiratory physiology than I was sleep. So tell us about, a little bit about the clinic that you're in now. Fast based solutions, which is based in your Plymouth. If anybody wants to talk to jazz and come and see you guys. What is it that you do? You showed me a machine before that you can actually wear. Yeah. So basically we moved sideways and I teamed up with two other guys. Mike Maxim is a cardiac physiologist and Alan Thompson, who's a, who's an anesthetic technologist, we looked at what we could provide to primary care as a, as a midway step between primary medical care and secondary medical care. Speaker 3: (48:26) So we sort of set out to say, wow, we can bride these tests a lot faster probably because we have less restrictive process. Yep. Um, and so we're doing things like Holter monitoring. Holter monitoring is monitoring the heart over 24, 48, seven day period depending on, on what we're looking for and basically monitors cardiac speak to the variation. So it's great for identifying an arrhythmias. This is ASA Fletcher, all of those conditions. Uh, atrial fibrillation is something we're seeing more and more, um, potentially a significantly life threatening condition if not picked up and manage because of the increased risk of stroke and things. Um, so we brought in more and also we're seeing a higher demand from people wearing wearable technology who have started to notice that happy changing, going faster, slightly out to be, yeah, because they're exerting and it causes concern. And part of medicine is to address concerns and fear. Speaker 3: (49:38) So we do, we do Holter monitoring. So we're using small halted co monitors that allow us to monitor patients in a more free fashion. The old ones used to have lots of wires that restrict things. These things you can run cycle. So they're great for people who are active because that's where they notice the problem. So we can monitor the patient in the situation in which they noticed that problem. It's a lot more effective. The older, bigger ones are cumbersome. So you can't run in them cycles when you can with these. Yep. So it allows us to monitor patients or effectively, and we can even do cardiac ones on there so we can get really tiny patches. So we do those, we do exercise tolerance testing to check for narrowing the vessels. So it's a a test that you run on a treadmill and we'd look at your ECG 12 lead ECG. So quite in depth in ECG while you're doing it. Um, would you ambulatory blood pressure, 24 hour monitoring spiral Metairie cause that forms part of the cardiac paradox. You know what I mean? You talk about cardio respiratory disease cause they both obviously work together and they affect each other. Yeah. So that's what we're doing here. We're doing more direct to patient management. Speaker 2: (50:58) Are you working with athletes? Speaker 3: (51:03) We get a lot of athletes come through because they're the ones who, who noticed a change. Yeah. And they just want to be reassured that what they're feeling is not a problem, which is fine. Yeah. Optimize performance. Yeah. Speaker 2: (51:21) Yeah. A lot of, um, uh, I've got a few colleagues, you know, I've been doing, you know, ultra marathon stuff for years and they've got Speaker 3: (51:29) over-sized carts, um, as a result. Okay. Yeah. That's exercise induced cardiomyopathy. Yeah. Um, it's not very common, but we do see it and some patients who've been exercising to an extremist for long periods, any muscle that you can overwork can become hypertrophic. You know what I mean? That's the whole point of bodybuilding damaging tear muscle to develop definition. And we see that in things like guilt, um, and insomniacs would that, but their cortisol, they're a highly stressed person who can get adrenal atrophy, atrophy, hypertrophy from that because you're constantly kicking out high levels of cortisol. Why they can't sleep and it's all at the wrong time of day. So you mean that's, yeah. Exercise-induced Caribbean cardiac conditions. They're not common, but there's some that we can check for. Yeah. Probably more common amongst people are hanging out with, Speaker 2: (52:39) you know, it's not common. I don't have it. Um, but I, yeah, my wife's husband used to have that problem. Um, been exercising for just, you know, huge amounts for many, many years. Um, and it's mostly mean isn't it? Then Speaker 3: (52:53) it is mostly men, mostly men that they're giving. It's like with rugby players in that it'd be interesting to look at their sleep at the same time. Yeah. Because that's why we've moved this way. Cause sleep hearts, lungs all work together for good or a bad reason. Speaker 2: (53:11) Yeah. I mean this is something that I've been trying to educate people on. You know, the difference between um, you know, like functional medicine and naturopathic medicine and the need for more integrated as it were, more integrated. Look at the whole person and not just, we here in lines near in the hat near you, study the brain and study the kidneys. But having people make can look at the whole sort of system or systems within the body that can really take a more holistic or overlooking approach. Speaker 3: (53:41) Yeah. Look, I think you mean one of the issues we face in any form of health care is the fragmentation of the system. And that we are so busy these days that predominantly we only look at the field in which we are so much. Whereas you, I mean you sit at the GP level, you've got to try and work out. So you're a policeman if you like, or a police person trying to work out which way you need to go. So it's very difficult when you send someone, let's say for a heart test because you think it's a cardiac issue and the test comes back, not a cardiac issue, but that doesn't help you. All it's told you is what we're trying to develop probably more so here is to look at the patient that's been referred for a heart problem and maybe just looking a bit wider and saying, well look, if it's, if it's not your heart, we should be looking at your sleep or if it's not your sleep, we should be looking at other physiology. Um, and trying to give a more packaged answer to provide the same. Well, Nope, we've done a Holter. It's fine. However they mentioned they should and we noticed that they have. Speaker 2: (54:52) Yep. Sort of overview a little bit wider. I mean obviously you can't be an expert in the mechanics of the feet at the same time as being doing what you're doing, but you know it, Speaker 3: (55:05) it's similar. It used to occur I think long time ago when we run much smaller population, people could have more time as a specialist to look at all areas healthcare, but obviously as, as the health system that was invented back then didn't take into account that would be a population of 5 million with significant ability to study more areas of healthcare. So a lot of the people who are in specialties are just overwhelmed with that specialty. And what we'll probably need to be doing more of is having a step that allows people to look more broadly house. And that may include, as you said, homeopathic or alternate providers because my treatment to just purely disease, most practitioners I think health or otherwise would agree with that, that everything should be more patient focused as opposed to outcome. Speaker 2: (56:03) It's really important to have educational programs like this one because it does take the pressure off the GP knowing everything about everything. If you're aware of what's out there, what could possibly be going on and some of the, you know, sort of just, um, you know, comorbidities that can exist. You know, like I'm doing a brain radio rehabilitation course I'm doing at the moment, um, to help people. And the, the, the interrelatedness from whether it's looking, it's not a good word, but you know what I mean. Um, from brain injury and hormones or adrenal insufficiency and hypertrophy, tourism and thyroids, um, they can all really be affected through brain injury. Um, and then, um, the knock on effects of those and the signs and symptoms and things that I always look at within the course. I'm building out what's the foundational aspects of good health, you know, some of the basics around hydration and nutrition and, um, sleep. Um, and then looking at the next layer to be introduced because there's no use me giving you or giving you, uh, telling you to go and have a hyperbaric session, Speaker 3: (57:15) which will help your brain, Speaker 2: (57:16) which we know has beneficial things for neurological problems when you're eating fish and chips every night. [inaudible] you know, got, I've got some underlying other problems and not exercising and not doing the other pieces of the puzzle. So we need to have, um, an approach that looks at how do I build some foundation with health basics for status as well as the dressing, the actual no problem Speaker 3: (57:40) that we've got on top of that. Yeah. Yeah. You mean, I think you mean if I can say that it's a key to what we've been talking about is, is, is we take what happens during the day very seriously, but health should be a wider conversation. Human sleep is important. Not every reason you can sleep is insomnia. Yeah. So tablets don't always fix sleep issues. They're a great tool and it can actually be more problematic than the issue. So that's the main thing. It's the snoring is not good. If I could get that point across. Yes. And if, if you don't think you sleep well, which is probably majority of population, just check it out. Speaker 3: (58:28) I'm sorry, I probably sounded a bit garbled. But sleep is such a few, Gerry, to try and look at sleep in its entirety is, is quite a difficult area. I mean, the simple ones are asleep, happier snoring, tiredness during the day, no matter how old you ask, snoring is not good. Yeah. As a matter whether you're male, female, adult kids, get it checked. And it's a simple case of just talking to your, your practitioner, especially if you've got chronic conditions. Um, and, and, and look at your sleep health as, as importantly as you do your daytime health. That's probably a key. Speaker 2: (59:07) That's a key takeaway. And I think, you know, go and get yourself a seat. Go and find out if you, if you think you have a problem, uh, if someone, you know, has had a stroke. Um, I mean, I, I, I think it should be standard practice for everybody who's had a injury to get some sort of sleep assessment done at some level. Um, you know, I'm, I'm absolutely convinced my mum would, wouldn't be here if we hadn't done that. And then subsequently also hyperbaric was a key factor in her success. Um, so obviously very passionate about sharing this message today. Um, jeez, just as we wrap up, um, so we've talked, we've given people a couple of takeaways, you know, and if they're snoring through something about it, if you, if you're feeling absolutely in the gutter, uh, and not get a good night's sleep, if you are waking up a number of times, uh, we've seen about sleeping on the side, it's on the left side is, is, is really ideal. Speaker 2: (59:59) Weight loss is really important. If you're obese, you need to be taking this seriously. Seriously. There's a lot of comorbidities that they come along with having sleep apnea and it can be a bit of a, what do you call it, a circle that leaves a vicious circle that leads into each other. Um, so I think that's some really, really key takeaways. And from the cardiac perspective, I'm very keen to come and check out what, what you guys are doing there. It's a new clinic. Um, and um, relay that back as well. Um, I think, uh, having these new facilities and this new technology available to us is just absolutely awesome. Um, and there's so many great things happening in so many different areas of medicine that we, you know, just sharing a bit of information about it is really key. So if anybody wants to reach out to you at the clinic, we can, they find you guys. Speaker 3: (01:00:52) Okay. So, yeah, I mean you can do the usual webpage, www fast pace solutions.co. Dot. NZ. Um, you can call it, we do have a phone number, but as you notice that, Speaker 2: (01:01:06) so I'll put that in the, in the show notes so people can reach out. Speaker 3: (01:01:10) We're available on Google. Most of the GPS in turn know where we are as do the specialists at the hospital because we're obviously working very closely with the hospital supporting us. So that's really good. Um, with regards to your mom, I just like to say, I mean from a medical perspective, I'm pretty stunned at the way your mom's recovering. I, I, I have to sort of put my hand on my heart as a medical person when I first went through with your eyes. Yeah. I wasn't positive, but it's not purely that the sleep, why does he like that? I've got to acknowledge that what you and your family put in to that was phenomenal. Yeah, it really works. Um, and I think you need to take a little bit more credit with you and your boys, your brothers. It gave you that a reason to come and do my garden, which was awesome. Excellent. I tell him to give me a call anytime. Look. Yeah. So do, do take some credit for that. It wasn't a medical outcome. It was Speaker 2: (01:02:15) faceted approach. And you know, I always look at the silver linings and things. Geez. And when I, when I went through this horrible situation with mum, there are people like you and others who came out of the woodwork and all gave me their expertise in that area that I was searching and I was hungry for help and information. And that having that open mindedness and being able to research and I continue to do it has now lead to a complete new profession. You know, um, it's interesting where you end up in a, in a book that I hope is gonna, uh, empower other people to fight like crazy. I mean there was, you know, we weren't given no hope from, from the hospital. We would tell her, put he

Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance. He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions. Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide. I wanted to share this second episode with Dr Sherr (he was on back in episode 77) to go even deeper into the little known facts about hyperbaric oxygen therapy like making epigenetic shifts, angiogenesis, stem cell production, lymph drainage and how it influences around 8000 genes in the body.   Hyperbaric oxygen  therapy was a major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over 4 years ago. Isobel was left with hardly any higher functioning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74. But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use.  What followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplementation and diet changes and over 250 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story. This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much clearer  and better than I ever could, just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine.   My book "Relentless" which is out now on my website and everywhere good books are sold shares our journey with hyperbaric among other adjunctive therapies.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Well hi everyone. Fantastic to have you back again on pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic interview with Dr. Scott Scheer, who is a physician out of the United States. Now Scott, Dr. Scott has been on my podcast previously and it was one of the most popular episodes, so I'm really, really privileged to have him back on. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a pioneer in health optimization medicine and in this episode we really going and doing a deep dive into one of my favorite therapies, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, but we're also going to be talking about meta below mix in the hollow biome. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a position certified in the health optimization medicine and in hyperbaric same time and he uses both of these protocols and adjunctive technologies. Uh, he's a father of four and he's an incredible, uh, really outside of the box thinker and I love his approach to his work. Speaker 2: (01:04) So I'm hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Scott shoe. Just a reminder, my book [inaudible] is now out. And, uh, my story with my mom was all, uh, one of the cornerstone therapies was hyperbaric oxygen therapy and I was, it was wonderful to connect with Dr. Scott about that previously and to learn all about hyperbaric. So I hope you enjoy this interview and if you want to grab the book while you're at it, he don't have it to my website, lisatamati.com and there was a lengthier under the shop for the books, so check them all out. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. And now over to Dr. Scott. Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you on board again today for an exciting episode. I have Dr. Scott Scheer with me who is a hyperbaric specialist, uh, from the States and he is, uh, had been on my show before and he is now coming back on here. It was one of the most popular episodes on the whole show. So I'm really, really excited to have Dr. Scott Beck and he's actually sitting in his own hyperbaric chamber right now and doing the interview from inside his own hyperbaric. So Dr. Scott, how are you doing? Speaker 3: (02:16) I'm doing well. Can you hear me okay, Lisa? Speaker 2: (02:18) Yeah, it's not too bad. We might have to ramp up the volume when we're doing the either thing, but we'll give it a go. See, here we go. Okay, Speaker 3: (02:26) sounds good. Speaker 2: (02:27) I'm sorry. Speaker 3: (02:31) Yes, I'm in my own chamber. I, um, I have my own mild hyperbaric units. Mild hyperbaric therapy is defined as hyperbaric therapy, less than or 1.3 atmospheres or more superficial than that. Um, and so these chambers go to about 15 feet of seawater equivalent. Um, and these chambers are approved for home use. Um, and I use them for a lot of different reasons, but personally I use it for just overall health and wellness, cognitive capacity enhancements, muscle recovery, jet lag, and a couple of other other indications. The chamber is nice because it's a triangular type of chamber, which means that you can actually sit up in it and not have to lie down completely. And I've been using it a lot these days, given pandemics and all those kinds of things and doing my best to stay healthy along with everybody else. At least a lot of other people that are not eating junk food all the time. Speaker 2: (03:32) Yeah. And we'll get into that a little bit later that year. Um, no amount of boy hacking all out to a good dog bed diet. So we definitely need to focus on that. But, so Dr. Scott, so I have my own hyperbaric chamber. I go in and every pretty much, you know, three or four times a week at least my one goes up to 1.5 atmospheres. And, but you also have a clinic that goes, uh, has, um, hyperbaric chambers that go, uh, too high up precious. Can you explain a little bit difference between the mild hyperbaric and the medical grade, if you like hyperbaric sort of things? Speaker 3: (04:09) Yeah, sure. So hyperbaric therapy in the United States is approved for 14 different conditions and all of those conditions have been studied at two atmospheres or greater. And so all the medical conditions for hyperbaric therapy cannot be treated in mild hyperbaric units. They can only be treated in, in units that are more medical grade. The medical grade chambers go down. Uh, there's different types of medical grade chambers. The most common, it's called a motto place or a single unit occupancy chamber. That chamber goes down to somewhere between 2.4 to three atmospheres of pressure. Three atmospheres of pressure is the equivalent of 66 feet of seawater. What's interesting about 66 feet of sea water equivalent is that when they, that's actually where they've done studies showing that at that level you no longer need red blood cells in circulation to get enough oxygen diffused into the plasma where the liquid of your blood at that level and maintain your physiologic functions. Speaker 3: (05:10) So it's a, it's a significant amount of oxygen that we can get into circulation. And so, um, what we're doing in a chamber is obviously driving more oxygen into circulation. And that's kind of like the quick and dirty of what's happening. When you go in there. The heart chambers are typically going down to deeper pressures, um, two atmospheres or above. Mmm. And then the soft chambers, um, depending on the type of chamber you have, it could go down to 1.3. Some of them go to 1.5. It depends on the country and the location. Well, I think what's more important for people is not that type of chamber really. But because some soft chambers can actually go to very deep pressures and heart chamber go to any pressure, they can go to superficial chamber pressures and they can go to deep pressure. What's most important, I think is knowing is treated or what the difference in treatments is depending on the pressure. Speaker 3: (06:03) Mmm. We think of neurologic pressure. So brain and spinal cord related pressures being somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0 and we think of things outside the central nervous system, soft tissue, um, and sort of overall hello. Outside of the central nervous system. A 2.0 and greater in general. No. From a like detoxification, lymphatic perspective, you can get benefits at both at 1.3 to 2.0 along with a 2.0 or greater. And from a STEM cell release perspective, the further down you go, the deeper you go, the more STEM cells that are released. So the indications fall into those two basic categories of neurologic versus non neurologic conditions. Although you can modulate the salt chambers to help you with some non neurologic conditions as well. You are getting more oxygen in circulation, right? So you are getting the ability to enhance your flow of oxygen to tissues regardless of the chamber and regardless of the pressure actually, although some pressure is needed. Mmm. And then you are helping with detoxification as well, no matter what pressures you're using, Speaker 2: (07:19) but it's more optimal at the, at the higher pressures. So, Speaker 3: (07:23) okay. Speaker 2: (07:24) So for neuro separate brain injury, like um, you know, not my story with my mum, um, 1.5 was what, you know, we were recommended is an ideal, uh, pressure for, for brain injury. So, so you're saying the neurological, the problems that people have actually better at the lower or the a then this oppression. So I should say, and for things like, um, Mmm diabetic wounds or um, healing injuries, uh, boons, that type of thing at a higher pressure would be more beneficial, but, or hyperbaric will help with detoxification. And was the limps and speeding up the healing hearing properties, the STEM cell release, is that higher when it's deeper, uh, pressure or high pressure? Speaker 3: (08:11) Yes. Yeah. The deeper you go, the more STEM cells are released because it's related to how much oxygen is being infused. The more oxygen infused, the more STEM cells get released. It's a, it's kind of a, it's kind of, it's a direct relationship. Speaker 2: (08:27) So do you know the, um, so I remember from the last podcast you're saying, you know, up to 12 times the amount of oxygen can be taken up into the body. Um, it is sad. So it says three atmospheres, there'll be 12 times in it at one and a half atmospheres. That would be, I don't know, somewhere in that for some six, seven times the amount of Mmm. Uh, oxygen that's diffusing. Now, the difference with a hyperbaric is actually, you know, like people will say, well, you know, I put an SPO two of my little thing on my finger and it says I'm 98%. I'm saturated with oxygen, right? How do I get more oxygen in? So what is the different mechanism between normal barracks, uh, pressure and hyperbaric pressure? Speaker 3: (09:16) Yeah, it's a question I get a lot, Lisa, and I'm sure you get it a lot too. So a pulse oximeter, it's something you put it on your finger and that measures the arterial oxygen saturation of your red blood cells. So you, red blood cells are what typically carry oxygen from your lungs. When you take a deep breath [inaudible] after going out of your lungs, as they go through the rest of your body and they to release oxygen so that you can make energy without oxygen, you cannot make ATP, which is the energy, energy currency of, of our body. And so you're right, our red blood cell carrying capacity for oxygen at sea level, he's actually quite good. That's when you put a pulsox machine on your finger. You get 97 to a hundred percent if you have normal lungs. So hyperbaric therapy is going to saturate any more sites on the red blood cells where they can carry oxygen. Speaker 3: (10:08) If there is like 97% sites, I already occupied those extra 3% will be occupied. But what's actually happening and the power of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in its ability to change this gaseous form of oxygen into a liquid form that actually diffuses directly into the plasma or the liquid of our blood and the liquid of our blood has very little oxygen in it at sea level. And we can diffuse up to 12 times or actually even more than that, a deeper pressures than three ATA, oxygen in circulation. And it's that extra oxygen you cannot get without having also been under pressure at the same time as getting more oxygen as well. Speaker 2: (10:49) So then this is really powerful when it comes to say injuries where uh, there's been a blockage to the blood supply to a certain area so that whether that's from a heart attack or a stroke or you know, Mmm. Or even as I presume with crush injuries and certain things like this we are not able to get, Lisa was a blocked in some way that you can actually perfuse the area around the injury with oxygen despite it not going through the blood vessels. Is that, is there a correct way of explaining it or Speaker 3: (11:25) know? The way I like to think about it is that you have all this oxygen that's now in circulation and it's kind of like oxygen, just like osmosis. We'll go to the area where there's less of it, so the more oxygen you have in a blood vessel, the more of that oxygen is going to get into the tissue around the blood vessel so you don't have to have as much vascular density potentially to get oxygen to that tissue because we've found a few, so much oxygen inside of that tissue bed itself that it could potentially factor as a way of saving tissue in the acute setting. So like you said, like the acute ischemia is the acute hypoxia is or low oxygen safe that happened with a heart attack. Well you have a lack of a blood flow in a coronary artery or a stroke. Speaker 3: (12:09) We have lack of blood flow, an artery in the brain or a spinal cord injury. When you have arteries that are actually broken you can actually get more oxygen to that tissue because you can diffuse more into the tissue bed around the injured blood vessel. It was also good is that when you have an acute injury there's also going to be a lot of swelling and actually injury too. The vessels that are going to cause leakage of that fluid and swelling. And actually in the chamber you actually constrict down blood vessels a little bit and that constriction actually helps you and prevents some of that fluid from releasing. And for some of that swelling to happen, even though you have this constriction of the blood vessel, you've also net had a significant delivery of oxygen to that tissue regardless because we've had all of that oxygen diffuse into the plasma. So Mmm, oxygen carrying capacity in normal settings without pressure is only dependent on how many red blood cells you have. But in a chamber we're pressurizing your body, pressurizing your breath or your whole body really. But when you take a deep breath, that pressurized oxygen is driven into the plasma or your liquid of the blood and that liquid of your, of your blood, it can go much further and diffuse much further into tissues outside of blood vessels as well. Speaker 2: (13:26) So for an example was, um, you know, my mom's story with the aneurysm. If I had managed, and of course at this stage I didn't know anything about Harbor about when this first happened, but if I'd been able to get her into a chamber immediately after the event occurred, uh, the cause the inflammation obviously with a broad love and Brian tissue mixing causes inflammation in the skull. Yeah. Um, that would have been hugely beneficial if I've managed to get her in a few times immediately after the event. So after she was stable, yes. Obviously, yeah, Speaker 3: (14:03) being stable. So I have some people, I just like to be very clear, you should go to a hospital. Did you have a stroke or you will have a heart attack and don't go to your local hyperbaric provider once you're stabilized. Yes. Um, there are some indications that the sooner that you can get treated in a chamber, the more oxygen you can get to your brain to a certain degree. I mean, not huge amounts. You don't want to go down to three atmospheres because that could be dangerous for your brain, but oxygen to your brain, oxygen to your heart after an acute event is going to save tissue in your brain and save tissue in your heart. [inaudible] they've even done studies looking at people that are getting bypass procedures, coronary bypass procedures. And if they're doing this, they get into a hyperbaric chamber right before, um, they save tissue in their heart so they, they have more harder to function, have better neurologic function after a coronary artery bypass grafting procedure. Speaker 2: (14:56) Wow. So, so Dr. Scott, like why is there any place in the world where this is offered in the ICU? You know, in the acute setting where people are coming in with major injuries or strokes or heart attacks or this type of thing where it's actually used as a part of the syrupy and if not, why not? Why is it not everywhere? Speaker 3: (15:17) Well to do acute care, hyperbaric therapy, it takes very specialized capability because if you're going to be in there with attendance or you have IVs going and you have others drugs you need to give, it's, it's definitely a specialized service. Um, in Japan, China and Russia, it's used much more in the acute setting than it is in the United States. The U S it has, and it still is used for acute trauma. So if you have like a traumatic ischemia, like we have a traumatic injury to one of your soft tissue areas, for example, it can be used. Um, but in general, um, it's not used as often in the trauma setting in the, in the U S as it is in other countries, especially China, Russia and Japan. Speaker 2: (16:05) Right. Okay. And it's not, it's not used here either and it's not even approved. Is it on the, in America, is it an approved treatment for, um, neurological events? Speaker 3: (16:18) There's no neurologic indication that's covered right now in the United States. Wow. Yeah. Speaker 2: (16:23) Even though it is right, Speaker 3: (16:24) I'm going to change that. And I mean the one that has the had the most, I think research behind it in the most interest is traumatic brain injury and concussion. There is definitely some good studies from across the world. M a U S showing how hyperbaric therapy can help people recover from concussion and traumatic brain injuries, which is another name for concussion really either in the short term and like from an acute concussion or even from hello term symptoms that may not go away. Speaker 2: (16:53) Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking about like there's different things here that are going on. You've got, it's detecting the inflammation is producing more STEM cells. It's a, it's Oh, sorry. Knocking off senescent cells isn't it? Which are your old cells that are not doing much of anything. Speaker 3: (17:15) Yeah, they're called the zombie cells. Right. So, um, can we, I like to think about hyperbaric therapy is, is relatively simply, there's four things that we do in the chamber. The first thing we do is we reverse hypoxia. We've been already talking about that. We reverse low oxygen States by getting more oxygen into circulation and over the longterm a protocol of hyperbaric therapy, create new blood vessels in those areas that have been injured. We're going to play games and then maintain the ability to get blood flow to that tissue over the long term. That's the first thing, reversing hypoxia. The second thing is decreasing inflammation. It does that immediately by constructing down the blood vessels like we talked about, but also over the longterm. It has the ability to shift our epigenetics, change how our body, our DNA expresses certain proteins that are responsible for inflammation. Speaker 3: (18:07) Things like TNF alpha, I'll one L six I'll eight and others. The third thing it does is releases a massive number of STEM cells. Those STEM cells all released throughout the body and they hone or they go to areas where there is more inflammation or there's more need for STEM cells to go to those areas and regenerate them. The next thing that happens is that there is, especially in higher oxygen environments, we have the ability to kill bugs, kill bacteria, fungus, and potentially even viruses. A deeper pressures in the chamber. So senescence cell populations look like they do get decreased or they do go down. We're not exactly sure how that's happening. We don't know if that's happening because those cells are being regenerated or if those cells are being killed off and either way is good for the body really. Because when they stick around and they're not replicating, and there we have a high association with cancer, with degenerative disease. Yeah. With aging overall. So senescent cells aren't cool in general. So we want those to go away. Uh, we don't know if that's because new STEM cells are coming and just the other ones are dying or if we're now getting more oxygen to the tissue. And so those cells are getting enough oxygen to regenerate their mitochondria and start making energy more effectively, which is where we make energy in ourselves. We're not sure. Speaker 2: (19:39) So the senescent cells are basically cells that have had past their use by date really. And they're not doing much of anything except causing trouble in the body, causing inflammation, causing changes, perhaps even, uh, in closing cancers and so on. Um, so it's really good to be getting rid of those. You mentioned the, um, I was six. Yeah. I are six from memory as one of the ones that they talking about in the Cobra, uh, scenario a that that's so interleukin six is, can you explain, um, I mean obviously we don't know whether it's good for coven Mmm. But is this potentially something that if someone has the Corona virus that they can potentially look at doing to stop the cytokine storm that's actually killing the people? Speaker 3: (20:30) Well, we're actually looking into it now. I have several colleagues around the United States that are starting with clinical studies to look at how hyperbaric therapy I can work on two fronts. It can work as a way to get more oxygen to the system as we've been describing it, because one of the things that's happening in covert is that they're getting very, very hypoxic. They're getting very low oxygen levels and we think this has something to do with destruction of the red blood cells or the inability of red blood cells to carry oxygen as effectively. So again, we can bypass that by being in a chamber like I am right now and pressurizing around you. And then as a result of that pressurization, I'm getting more oxygen in circulation regardless of how many red blood cells I have working or not, how many hemoglobin molecules I have working or not. Speaker 3: (21:16) So that's one area that we're looking at is how hyperbaric therapy can work. The other area that we're looking at is as, as as an anti-inflammatory. So it does have the ability to downregulate those inflammatory cytokines, one of them being IO six. So maybe helping with that cytokine storm at the same time. We also know for other studies over the years that hyperbaric therapy is and immuno modulator, it helps the immune system function better. Um, so we think in the early part of the process, maybe if coven 19 we don't know yet for sure, but it may help to support the immune system and allow it to sort of weather the storm better as opposed to not weathering it as well. So it's a lot of conjecture right now, Lisa, you know, we don't know for sure how it works or if it's going to work, but there are definitely some of my colleagues around the U S and around the world that are looking at how hyperbaric therapy might be a helpful adjunct to conventional care. Speaker 3: (22:16) Maybe prevent people from getting intubated or being on ventilators, which would be a great thing. And so they're looking at that as another having you, and they're also looking at pressurizing the hoods, the hoods that you were in a hyperbaric chamber as a way to get more oxygen into the system without being an hyperbaric chamber as well. So yeah, I've posted a little bit about this on my Instagram because I just find these really intriguing. There is actually one company that's looking to retrofit airplanes. Airplanes are usually pressurized at 8,000 feet above sea level, so they're actually hypoxic environments. There's lower oxygen on and off on an airplane. That's your breathing as opposed to being at sea level. Wow. But what they can do is that they can reverse their pressurization and actually pressurize it. Like a hyperbaric environment. No, you couldn't fly with a plane like this because it would be too heavy, but you can keep it on the ground and and make it a hyperbaric chamber. And you know those oxygen masks that come from the ceiling already, right? So they could use those oxygen masks as a way to get more oxygen into circulation. So this is just one of those sort of crazy ideas. But it's a really interesting idea where you can actually retrofit airplanes to be hyperbaric chambers. Wow. Speaker 2: (23:31) Because that's one of the reasons we get jet lag, isn't it? Because we're, we're, we're at this, um, you know, equivalent of 8,000 feet or 2,500 meters. Mmm. Right? So we're just, we were actually coming out with a bit of an altitude situation where you've actually not got enough oxygen and that's adding to the fact that you've been traveling for how many hours and sitting still and not oxygenating. Anyway, Speaker 3: (23:55) there's the circadian rhythm piece of it, but you are at low oxygen levels and you are at higher risk for jet lag and infection too, so that's why you have a higher risk for infection when you fly. Not so much because of the sanitation on the plane. Although yeah, the air itself on a plane isn't the cleanest. Yeah, and I'm hoping that one of the things that happens with this whole covert thing is that the air on planes becomes cleaner than it is now. That more is coming from the outside of the plane and be less being research related, but in in in essence the low oxygen environment is, is definitely not helping from your health perspective and like the Dreamliners. Some of the newer planes are pressurized to 6,000 feet above. See instead of the 8,000 you said it helps with jet lag and you add on circadian rhythm changes or helping urge on your circadian rhythms to be in the, the times when you're going on it's going to help significantly and that's what new plans are trying to do and that's a new health. Your hotel rooms are also trying to do as well, new hotel rooms with new lighting and things like that that are happening, which is super cool. But in essence, yes, the airplane itself is a hypo H Y P O Barrick environments. And we can make it and retrofit it to be a hyperbaric environment as well, which, so if you have any extra seven 30 sevens hanging around, let me know and we can work on it. Speaker 2: (25:14) There you go. We can got Richard put them together. That sounds really good because flying is one of a really big danger to our health and we've, we've seen the effects of covert going through airplanes, you know, all that sort of, um, um, I just wanted to, to touch on a couple of years, NGO Genesis. Can you explain what angiogenesis is and what is actually happening there in regards to Hochberg? Speaker 3: (25:42) Yeah. So angiogenesis is the creation of new blood vessels. And in a hyperbaric chamber, that acute infusion of, of oxygen, it's going to flood the body with more oxygen, but it's not going to create new blood vessels. What happens after a protocol call of hyperbaric therapy is that we have these epigenetic shifts, we have these shifts and expression of DNA and that DNA expression is shifted in a way that more blood vessels are created because of some of the various factors that are released under pressure and under a high oxygen conditions. Those are things like VEGF, which is a very common blood vascular growth factor and others. And we have these new blood vessels that form and they tend to form in areas where there is hypoxic tissue or there is low oxygen in tissue. They tend to form an areas where there have been injuries in the past. And so these new blood vessels which are created allow the sustainability of the results on the effects of hyperbaric therapy to be a longer term play. Speaker 2: (26:43) So if you have a heart problem, so you have to ha, you know, you've got a blockage in one of your, your arteries. Um, is this a possible way to get around that blockage without surgery in conjunction with surgery over the longer term enough stations here. Speaker 3: (27:01) So we're talking about collateralization of blood vessels, which which would, what I mean by that is that that's the medical term of you basically create collaterals around blockages and that's what a bypass is, right? A bypass procedure is creating ways to go around blockages. It's like, it's like going off the on ramp and taking the service road like around traffic, uh, that stopped and then going back on the service road back onto the freeway after the traffic is over kind of deal. That's a good way to describe it. What a collateral would be like a collateral road. And so hyperbaric therapy can help you create those. And we don't know about the heart specifically though because we haven't done the studies to know. But we do know from the studies that have been done that there is an increase in vascular density in the heart. There's an increase in vascular density in the brain after a protocol of therapy. And so as a result of that, you will have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue because you have more density of blood vessels. No, we haven't done the study looking at people with blocked blood vessels to see what happens under hyperbaric conditions. It just hasn't happened. But the conjecture that we have is that it would potentially help without collateralization. It goes off roads, service road kinds of ideas. Speaker 2: (28:18) Yeah. Going around, I heard, um, that DHEA is an interesting one for the main, at the uh, uh, erectile dysfunction can be helped with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, creating new new blood PA angiogenesis for that sort of a problem. Is that correct? Speaker 3: (28:35) Yeah, it's the same deal. I mean the, the physiology of hyperbaric therapy, it goes everywhere. Your, your full body is oxygenated. So decreasing inflammation, reversing hypoxia, the STEM cell release and killing bugs happens anywhere and that includes regenerating blood vessels in, in a penis or and uh, in areas around the heart or in areas that have degenerated otherwise. And so they did a study looking at erectile dysfunction in males that were relatively healthy and their erectile function improved after, I think it was 6,600 hyperbaric chamber treatments. And so that's new blood vessels that are getting created, a new blood vessel, low vascular flow and the penis. And so we have indications that happens in women as well with, with vaginal flow. But we don't have the studies to show that. Right. Often we'll get the, uh, the feedback from women and men that sex life is better in, in hyperbaric. There's people that have gotten hyperbaric therapy. Speaker 2: (29:38) That's a good reason. Speaker 3: (29:40) Yeah. Speaker 3: (29:41) Well, yeah, there are some studies on infertility already, uh, in helping with fertility because it helps getting it a deeper pressure helped, helps with the uterine lining. The uterine lining itself will, um, we'll get thicker under hyperbaric conditions we think. And then as a result of that, there's a higher chance for the embryo, the embryo to be implanted. And so if you have a thinner uterine lining, you can pick it up potentially in the chamber. So this is used already in Russia and in China as a fertility treatments actually quite commonly in the West and the U S it's not very common. Speaker 2: (30:19) No, I haven't come across the same one. You know, you the troubles with fertility for years. [inaudible] um, I'm going to get in there even more often now. That's not the reason. Speaker 3: (30:31) Just to be clear though, this is at the deeper pressures. Speaker 2: (30:34) Oh yeah. Speaker 3: (30:34) It's shown effect. So this is at like two atmospheres, 2.4. Speaker 2: (30:38) The 1.5 why won't quite cut it so that, that sort of a problem. It probably can't hurt Kenneth. Speaker 3: (30:44) I don't think it would hurt. No. I mean, but there are certain things that I don't recommend going at less pressure. Uh, and that I'm pretty emphatic about. So the things that I don't feel are likely well-treated at 1.3 are any open wounds. Any open wounds really need to be treated at deeper pressures. If you have any ongoing infections. I don't, I feel for the most part, that 1.3 atmosphere is enough. Really. I see a significant benefit unless it's an it, a bug that does not like oxygen environments. And then in that case maybe, but the deeper pressures would likely still be better. Yeah. If you have any chemical sensitivities, these chambers can sometimes make them worse because they're made out of a plastic material. And that plastic material, uh, does off gas to some degree. And I do find that some of my patients that are highly sensitive, so plastics and to chemicals, uh, will not feel good in these kinds of chambers either. Speaker 3: (31:46) If you have any of the FDA approved conditions in my country, I don't recommend using a soft chamber either. Those should be done in deep pressures. The only approved indication for these chambers, assault chambers, that's insurance coverage in the U S is acute mountain sickness. So you go up a mountain too fast, you get signs of altitude sickness, you can get into one of these chambers and you can feel better pretty quickly. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why I have some interests in, Oh, there has been interested in coven 19 specifically because they're thinking that some of the physiology is similar. Yeah. Altitude tickets, how people are, how responding to the virus. Speaker 2: (32:30) So, so, so most of those, um, so since only the only thing that, uh, Molotov America is approved for is mountain, even though there are, but, um, from, from, yep. Okay. Speaker 3: (32:45) There are studies to show that these pressures can be beneficial for brain related conditions. Yes, yes. Speaker 2: (32:52) Yep. Mmm. That's interesting. So, so oxygen oxidative stress was the next thing I wanted to touch on. So, so w when we think of oxidative stress, we think that that's a negative thing. Generally. You know, we should, we need to get rid of the oxidants in our body and we need antioxidants and we need to detox and so on. So why isn't this case oxidative stress? Not a bad thing. What is it [inaudible] is it an oxidative stress? Speaker 3: (33:19) Well, there's a lot of things in life that are good for us that are oxidative stress. One of the most common, hopefully his exercise exercise creates inflammation and oxidative stress. Body responds with the ability to produce antioxidants. And then as a result of those anti-oxidants being released, the body has a way of compensating and then growing stronger. And that's what's happening inside a hyperbaric chamber. Every single thing that's happening almost in a hyperbaric environment is because of oxidative stress. The only thing that's not as a result of oxidative stress is purely the oxygen infusion that's getting more oxygen to the cells and that's allowing more energy to be produced, but everything else, of course, that's very important, but everything else, the oxidative stress causes those epigenetic changes that are happening on the DNA. It causes is that STEM cell release, it causes that inflammatory downregulation. Speaker 3: (34:17) It causes those that vasoconstriction, that constriction of blood vessels that could be injured during an acute event, so it's oxidative stress that initially spurs the system to have a cataclysmic cataclysmic. Yup. Okay. That sounds almost like like a catastrophe. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Basically, you know, it's a huge catalyst for change. Cataclysmic and catalysts are not the same word, but I had a huge catalyst for change. But what happens is that the body, just like with exercise, has a significant ability to have a reactive antioxidant search and that antioxidant surge, it happens and equates or balances out all that oxidative stress or the oxidative stress that we gave the body initially. So it's important for me when I'm thinking about hyperbaric protocols, I think about the person in front of me, I think is this person, somebody that has the ability to have a re the reactive antioxidant surge to balance out that oxidative stress. Because if you're not healthy, if you are sick, if you're inflamed, if you have lots of chronic conditions you made, do be depleted in various things that could make it difficult for you to do this. And that's why I'm very emphatic when I can and when there's time to consider a foundational of cellular health, looking at vitamins, minerals, nutrients, antioxidant levels, looking at signs of gut dysbiosis and immune system function to understand how well somebody is going to do in the chamber before they get in. Speaker 2: (35:54) So that, that's a perfect segue because I wanted to go into, um, the whole foundational health, uh, and, and, and also adjunctive therapies too. Hyperbaric. Um, so it started with a couple of things like Mmm. You know, like taking things like vitamin C infusions before going into hyperbaric, uh, doing the keto diet or exogenous ketones in combination with hyperbaric. Mmm. And then looking as the next step and the conversation into the foundational things which really need to be addressed as well. Um, so they start with it junked of therapies that will benefit from a hyperbaric in combination. Speaker 3: (36:40) Sure. So yeah, that's a good segue I feel before getting into adjunctive, it's important I think to describe that I jumped in. Therapies can definitely synergize together, but it's really important I feel to have a good sense of your own foundational biology before you start stacking therapies on top of each other. Because synergistic tools that are both potentially oxydative, IB, vitamin C, and I can direct therapy, it can be very helpful. However, if you don't have the capacity to physiologically benefit from it or potentially have side effects as a result of the too much oxidative stress, it could be detrimental. So when I think about stacking therapies, I often try to take it a step back and say, okay, let's look at that foundation assessment first. Like your vitamins, your minerals, your nutrients, you're announcing the levels. That's the reprogram that I have that I, that I work with called health optimization medicine, which was founded by a colleague of mine named dr Ted Archer, COSO. Speaker 3: (37:43) And I work as the C Oh of our nonprofit that's educating doctors on how to do this. And I also have my own clinic concierge virtual clinic, really in the Bay area in San Francisco, working with clients across the U S across the world. So once I've done that, once I've looked at that foundational biology, then I think about therapies that can stack on top of hyperbarics or with it. One of the things that I think about is a low level light there. There'll be a low level light technologies because lights have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue by dilating the blood vessels in that area. And so if you're dilating various blood vessels in an area, you can then get more oxygen to that area. So that's one way for some specific spectrums of light to help. Um, infrared light is also really good for detoxification. Speaker 3: (38:33) So I often combine hyperbaric therapy with detox publication strategies and one of them being infrared light, I think about post electromagnetic field technologies. Wow. Those are micro circulatory pulses of electromagnetic fields that can help with circulation. And then increasing circulation is going to help you benefit in a hyperbaric chamber as well because you're getting more tissue oxygenated because there's more tissue that's dilated in blood vessels. And so we can help there. I also think about using various technologies inside of a hyperbaric chamber. If you're in a software like this one because then now you can bring in things that are portable and then you can do brain training like neurofeedback for example. And you can do other types of brain training and using computers or iPads or whatever, doing certain things to sort of work on your multitasking capabilities and, and the like. And you can do a lot of other different things. But those are some of the things that come to mind. Speaker 2: (39:31) Wow. This is what really getting into the whole, you know, optimizing in, in high performance and being able to, to stack the different biohacks if you like. And the different things on top of each other. I'm very interested in the infrared light therapy and um, have some of the products from vital light. Um, again, something that I've used in conjunction with, uh, for mums rehab. Mmm. And uh, very interested in the PME if I haven't had a chance to, to go down that route, but very keen cost prohibitive to have that at home unfortunately. Um, so there are so many amazing things in the biohacking world if you like, where we can actually, uh, sat to look with relatively low risk, um, the lights therapy. Um, it's an interesting one. Also the detrimental effects of blue light coming from our computer screens, stuff like that. Speaker 2: (40:28) Um, yeah and that's um, you know, probably a topic for another day. But what I did want to go into is as you work with dr Ted COSO who I would love to get on the show as well. He's amazing. Um, so dr Ted, uh, is from the Philippines and he has a um, uh, he has health optimization, Madison and so you are the CEO of that company. Can you tell us, well dr tin has created his own own hole. What would you call it, system of looking at so meter below mix the hollow biome. Can you explain what the heck those are? Cause I'm sure nobody listening to this podcast would have come across those terms yet. Sure, no problem. Speaker 3: (41:16) Yeah. So dr ten's an anti-aging doctor. He, uh, we specialize in antiaging medicine and then created his own practice that looks right. Two, I think take the best of conventional medicine. And then the best of what was under the radar in conventional medicine, which is called metabolomics, which is the field of study that we look at real time cellular metabolites. So the real time factors that are making ourselves work. And we can measure all of this. This is something that I didn't know when I was in medical school that you can actually do, but you can actually measure all of these various factors and understand how the body is making energy, how the body is processing your various foods into like from macronutrients all the way down to micronutrients, understanding how we can measure antioxidant levels. And so you can do all this. And so what Ted developed was a way to do this sort of like in the 80 20 framework, which is 80% of the benefit for 20% of the testing and focusing that testing on health and not focusing on any specific disease or condition and setting that aside for the moment and, and just doing, Mmm. Speaker 3: (42:25) More testing related to health and health focus. And so the program itself has seven pillars, but they all comprise what's called the hollow biomes. H, O, L, O, B, I, O, N, T. And this is the idea that we are not just an individual in a population, but we're actually up population of organisms or individuals together in ourselves, in it of ourselves. So we are made up of fungus, virus, bacteria, human. And then we're also made up of the, the metabolites or the production, the toxins and the other things that are in environment. That's all happening all on our cellular level that we can see. So the idea is to create a program for people that uses all of that data that we can measure and understanding where it's coming from and then how to optimize and balance. So the first pillar is metabolomics, which is looking at the cellular data. Speaker 3: (43:25) Another one is epigenetics or looking at how our environment and how are exposures overall change how our epigenetics are or express or how our DNA is expressed through epigenetics, looking at chronobiology or circadian rhythms and how light especially affects our circadian rhythms, looking at the gut immune system. So that's our gut microbiota and in detail how our gut is a very significant indicator of our overall health and our immune health and neurologic and psychologic health are all related to our gut, just on some level looking at evolutionary biology. So the idea is that we have trade offs in our evolution that some certain traits will help us when we're younger, but actually be a detriment to us when we're older. And also how our evolutionary biology is related to our ancestry. So where our ancestry as well also indicate where we should potentially best focus our diet and our and how we change it depending on seasons, et cetera. And there's also the bioenergetics pillar, which is related to energy production, other cellular level. And that's mostly our mitochondria as well, where we're making energy and exposomics, which is the study of toxins, the toxins in our environment. But in essence, this is what we call our whole bio. And we can use about 500 or so data, measure measures to look at measures of all of these things and then create programs for our clients using those metrics and these pillars. [inaudible] really optimize health over the longterm. That's the idea. Speaker 2: (45:09) Wow. So that's just, this is, this is unsigned and something that I'm hoping to study in that in the future. Once I get through the next lot of study, it's just seems to be one Speaker 3: (45:19) the chamber you can study. Speaker 2: (45:21) I do. I was yesterday sitting in there listening to all your lectures and preparing for today's podcast. It's a brilliant way to do it and it just seems so much to learn. Mmm. And I'm very interested in dr Tibbs work and um, you know, coming to grips with it. Um, you know, we, we, we do something in our company, you know, if the genetic testing was that dr Alberto Gralise work and we're finding that absolutely. Yeah. Fascinating. Now, adding in the functional genomics into that with document's or Mohammed's work, uh, it just gives another lens at another lens to be able to look through. And the microbiome is an, is an area anyways, you know, um, you can't have one without the other. I just wish there was more hours on a day to day to deep misinformation. Speaker 3: (46:08) It's a network, Lisa. I think that's what you're going at, right? It's a network effect. Our body doesn't work in silos. You don't just have a heart, you just don't have a brain. You don't just have a gut. They all work together. It's this beautiful symphony. Mmm. Bacteria, virus cells, humans, human cells, mitochondria, which can be classified potentially as bacteria cells as well. Probably back in the day became or came from bacteria that combined with another type of cell that didn't have oxygen capabilities. And that's our, so we have all these things working together. We have hormones working together. We have chemical factories called cytokines working together, um, from a distance. Nothing has to be right next to each other to get there. We have blood vessels, we have lymphatics, we have nerves and other different types of channels to get things. So where they need to go with neurotransmitters. Speaker 3: (47:00) And so it's very difficult to just boil it down. So just a couple of things. I think where the future is going, there's a great article that I loved. It was actually, I think published about six months ago. It was at, it was actually published at Stanford, they called it the narcissism like narcissistic, right? The idea that you'll know everything about yourself, you're no your jeans, you'll know you're genomics, your proteomics, which are the proteins get from genes, you'll know your epigenomics, you'll know you're metabolomics and you will be able to use all this data to create a personalized understanding of you, your risk factors, but also what's actually happening to you right now and getting ideas of what you need to do now so that you can optimize over the longterm. The problem with just looking at genomics is that yeah, it gives you risks of what you may have, but it doesn't tell you actually what's happening. Speaker 3: (47:56) That's what metabolomics does. And so the narcissism is the idea that you have access to all this information and access to the data that's being, I studied as a result of this information too. So anyway, I think we're all gonna have those in our pocket books at some point in the next two years. It's a fascinating to be able to have all of that and to be able to look through these different lenses and to look at the person as a whole. And I think that's where, um, you know, allopathic medicine has had its limitations and that every specialty is very siloed in, in not necessarily communicating with. Right. Hmm. It's still too siloed and the brain does a work independently of the knee and the, you know, whatever the case might be. Mmm. Is it interconnected, focused on, in the past I'm saying would that would be a fear? Speaker 3: (48:52) Well, because as human beings, we try to simplify things as much as possible. There's very good reasons for that. Um, and I'm not, I'm going to be against it, but I think it's important that you have certain people that specialized in organs and do the work that they do and be very, very good at it. But it's like not having a primary care doctor, I'm just going to see a specialist. If you're just in the conventional world, what's going to happen is that you just get opinions in the very singular lens of that particular organ system. So it doesn't look at the big picture. And then you look outside the conventional system and you have to think about this larger, this larger understanding to really get a good holistic, comprehensive plan I feel of of how to maintain your health over the longterm. Cause if you're just looking at, I want to optimize my heart function, I want optimize my, my brains function. Speaker 3: (49:48) It's like, well what about your gut? You know, what about your antioxidant levels? What about your, see, what about you're motion in your feet and how that's affecting your back. And there's all these other aspects of things that are important. So I tend to work with people that look at more of a holistic view of movement and holistic view of health with whatever capacity. And I do my best to help people across the world in not only hyperbaric therapy, but helping them understand the best ways to approach their goals from a holistic perspective. And so I do, I think you remember, I do virtual consultations, education, advocacy for hyperbaric across the world. And I love new challenges and ways to people. I mean, I often get the thing, it's the same things over and over again, but I love when new things kind of pop up and I go, Oh, that's super interesting. And then I get to harness the network that I've created across the world to really help people. And a lot of these things, things can be done remotely now, which is great, which is even even better given that most of us are stuck in our homes. No, anyway, at the moment, given the whole pandemic thing, I was talking to my hyperbaric chamber for a little while longer, which I'm not too sad about that. Speaker 2: (50:58) And, and you know, I find this just such a refreshing approach that you, you know, as a doctor, as a medical doctor, an internal doctor who's looked outside of the box you had on your website somewhere or some somewhere I read, you know, the box was broken a long ago. Um, you don't all to confine yourself to one way of thinking or one. Speaker 3: (51:18) There was never a box Speaker 2: (51:20) for me, Lisa. Speaker 3: (51:23) It was actually, I created a box after not having a box and then I broke it open again. I grew up because I'm the son of a chiropractor who didn't have a box. There was no such thing. And so aye created some sides of that box and some, you know, some stingy walls and pretty thin walls when I went to medical school. So I could learn what I needed to learn and then now use that information and work within that framework when necessary in the conventional framework, but also knowing that they're clumsy and that it's easy to get outside of those walls and we should, especially if there's time, if there's time to work unconventionally than work on unconventionally. If there isn't a time work eventually, but also do unconventional things if you can and you could do them side by side. And that's one of the things I specialize in too is understanding that most things in life are not mutually exclusive and you don't always have time to wait for one or the other. And sometimes you just kind of have to throw the bus at it in a very methodical way to help it. I know that's what you did with your mom. Speaker 2: (52:31) Yeah. By Sigma. Yeah. A multifaceted Chuck everything. It started them out at the wall and I'd hope some of it sticks. [inaudible] it has, Speaker 3: (52:41) yeah. Throw shit at the wall is like is the nice way of saying it for maybe the nonsense nice way of saying Speaker 2: (52:46) and, and Speaker 3: (52:47) you do that in a methodical way and that's the important, the thing that I try to emphasize is that there has to be a physiologic reason and they have to be done, at least if it's, yeah. If it's a recommendation for me, it's have to be done in a methodical way that you kind of understand what's happening. And w the factors that are playing and not just throwing shit at the wall without a plan of what shit is going at the wall. At what time Speaker 2: (53:10) and looking at the risk reward. Yeah. And then making sure that you're not, um, and you know, for someone like, so, you know, if my nature is, is very much a dive in and just have a crack and, um, you know, sometimes they have to pull myself back and go hang a minute. The risks too high here or yeah. Speaker 3: (53:29) Words. So Speaker 2: (53:31) yeah, it's really, it's, you know, it's one thing to do it on yourself. It's another thing with other people in being able to, Speaker 3: (53:40) yeah. What I was saying is that as a new Zealander, you're, you're known for your risk taking. So sometimes you gotta you gotta you gotta bring it back in a notch there. Speaker 2: (53:48) Exactly. Yup. Too much adrenaline. You can say it in my epigenetics, my ring finger is longer than my index finger. I've got too much to drink. Nice. Um, but you know, like doctor dr Cher, you know, we'll wrap up in a second, but I just wanted to thank you so much because the advocacy that you're doing, the work, the connections that you're boating, the network, you really are the worlds having age of, of, of Oh this new, whatever the says that sets happening with us as personalized health, uh, this new paradigm shifts. And um, I'm excited to get your message out there. So if any of the lessons sitting out there, we'd like to talk to Dr. Scott because obviously he's a super expert in everything from a hyperbaric right through to metabolomics and the holiday BYOD. Um, if you would like a bitch or a consultation with doctors, dr shear, where can they go doctor? Speaker 3: (54:43) So for my consultation work, my education and advocate, you can see work, I do it all through my, my website. It's integrative HBO t.com Speaker 2: (54:52) integrated kioti.com. Speaker 3: (54:54) Yeah. And then if you could also disconnect with me on Instagram to add Dr. Scott [inaudible], S C O T T S H E R R. And I also, we can set some things up through that as well if people have interest. I've been looking to post more and get more out there for people. And I know I've been doing podcasts for awhile but I feel like smaller little bits of information are helpful too given the attention deficits of our current state of affairs. So I have this like funny airplane pillow around my neck there. That's better. Okay. Um, so it was nice when I was in the other position. Um, but so those are the two major places that I do my education, advocacy and consultation. I also have a new Facebook group actually just set up called optimize H optimize HBO T with Dr. Scott Cher. Speaker 3: (55:43) And this is a really fun one. I'm looking to have a location where we all can kind of get along in the hyperbaric community. They have like the heart chamber advocates and the salt chamber advocates and you have to be able to know a lot about having barrier therapy in that, you know, very little. And my hope is to create a platform where we can kind of all come together and I'm going to be creating content and curating content with a team of people to hopefully bring, I think I hope the community together a little bit more and bring more information out there. So that's a new, that's a new one that I've just come out with. Speaker 2: (56:16) I'm definitely count me in, count me in. I'm definitely an advocate for all of us. And um, want to share, you know, um, I've just sent you actually a copy of my book. I don't know if it'll get through when the covert situation, but I really want the story to get out. Speaker 3: (56:32) Yeah. For sure. Speaker 2: (56:33) Yeah, Speaker 3: (56:34) we'll hear that story. Speaker 2: (56:35) Yeah. And that's like 250 and counting hyperbaric sessions so far. Speaker 3: (56:41) That's amazing what you and your mom has done. It's really beautiful. Speaker 2: (56:44) That is really beautiful. So Dr. Scott, thank you so much. I'll put all those links for everybody in the show notes today. I really appreciate your time. Um, it's very, very precious to me and I really, really grateful for you doing all this work. So thank you very much. Okay, Speaker 3: (57:00) and you, Lisa. Thanks for all your hard work and your advocacy and it's been my pleasure to be on your podcast, my first one in the hyperbaric chamber. Speaker 1: (57:09) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

Many of us have dealt at sometime in our life with depression, anxiety, burnout or stress. Many of us know what it's like to fight on a daily basis with the black dog.    In this very candid and honest interview with Author Matt Calman we dive deep into the how depression and mental health struggles can catch anyone of us out and how we can courageously fight our way back to health and happiness.   Matt used the challenge of the Coast to Coast to work through the demons in his mind and the importance of having a physical challenge and goal when dealing with derailed emotions. His book "The Longest Day" chronicles the ups the downs of his journey back to health culminating in the successful finishing of the ultimate challenge NZ's Coast to Coast multisport  race    The infamous Coast to Coast is a multisport competition held annually in New Zealand. It is run from the west coast to the east coast of the South Island, and features running, cycling and kayaking elements over a total of 243 kilometres (151 mi). It starts in Kumara Beach and traditionally finished in the Christchurch suburb of Sumner, but since 2015 finishes in New Brighton.   You can find out more about Matts book at https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/other-books/The-Longest-Day-Matt-Calman-9781988547305   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/   For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Today I have another special interview with a very lovely friend Matt Calman. Now met is a journalist and he is the author of the longest day and matt shares his journey today through a very bad depression and coming back and using the coast to coast is his journey back to health. So it's a very, very interesting and insightful and really real interview, which I'm very pleased to bring you before we get over to matt just want to remind you my book relentless is now out in available on all the platforms, on audio books, on eBooks, on Amazon, on Kindle. You can find out all about about it at relentlessbook.lisatamati.com. That's relentlessbook.lisatamati.com I'd also like a word to all the runners out there. If you've been sitting on the fence about joining our online run training club running hot now's a good time to do it during the covid crisis, we have made a special so that it's more affordable for people. Speaker 2: (01:14) We have a 12 week excess membership excess for 49 us dollars at the moment for 12 weeks and get access to all of our programs from 5k up to a hundred miles. And we have a very holistic run training approach. So if you've never run before, this is your first time that you have having a go at it or whether you're doing your hundredth a hundred kilometer race. We'd love to talk to you and help you build a very structured plan and a holistic approach based on our five pillars, which are the running, the mobility, the strength and nutrition and the mindset. So check that out. That's on my website, at lisatamati.com. Now, before I go, please do give the show a rating and review. I really, really appreciate that on iTunes if you could. It really helps the show get exposure. And I love to hear your feedback of any of the episodes have really touched a chord with you. Or if you've found great help with this, please share it with your networks and also write to me and let me know. Really, really appreciate it right now over to matt Calman Speaker 3: (02:17) Well, Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tammany here and I am with matt Calman. Matt, how you doing? Good, thanks Lisa. Thank you for having me on. Oh, it's very, very exciting to have you met as a fellow New Zealand author. and, as I said, you don't know. He has written the book the longest stay recently, very recently telling his life story. And I'm going to share my story. I'm going to share his story with us. There. It is the longest life as I was watching on YouTube. I must grab a book met you know, really excited to delve into your story a little bit today and your backgrounds and how this book came about and your, your history. So give us a bit of a rundown on who you are and where you come from and your family and so on. And then it still haven't your story. Speaker 4: (03:03) Well, I'm, I'm 43 now. I was born and mastered them and it's very small town Amsterdam. Then my dad worked there as an insurance man then got transferred to Christchurch when I was about three years old. So like, yeah, I don't, I didn't know, I don't know Amsterdam then very well, but I had the roots there, a lot of friends there, and then we put down some roots in Christchurch and that's where I grow up. So I spent all the way through to my sort of early twenties and Christchurch. And then I met my wife, ah, when I was 19 and she was 17. She was just finishing up high school, took it to the bowl. And you pretty early on actually throw me and I know that she was going to be the ones who may, yeah, but a fairy tale really. Speaker 4: (03:52) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're still dealing. We've got a couple of daughters now teen and nearly seven two girls and I've been, I'm at home with them for the last nine years. So when my, when my first, our first daughter was about seven months old I left my job as a journalist. I've been a journalist for a few years of the dominion post. I was living in Wilmington at that time with my wife's where she started her legal career. She's now a partner at a, at a sort of a good sized law firm and Christchurch. And we're living, you know, living the dream. But yeah, it's a, it certainly hasn't been a straight road life pays its ups and dances. You know, Lisa, I've read your book and I read about all your ups and downs and yeah, pretty inspiring stuff. Speaker 3: (04:48) Oh, thanks man. Yeah. And I'm keen to Delvin zoo story because you know, I love, I love people who share, they are the real stuff, the, the stuff that isn't perhaps pretty in the stuff that isn't glamorous, the difficult times. And your, your story is certainly inspiring. So let's start with where it all went wrong. You know, cause this sounds like a fairy tale. You meet your beautiful wife, you, your kids and lost going. Great. We did it all. We did things start to go wrong for you. Speaker 4: (05:15) Let's see. In Congress thing about all of us about depression, about how it doesn't discriminate it, it touches people who've had wonderful life like I've had. Well, and it touches people who struggled. It doesn't, yeah, it's not really about how good your lifers. Yes, from the outside, my life was perfect. Two beautiful children, amazing wife. We don't want for anything. We were pretty comfortable financially. Live in a lovely house in Christ, in a leafy suburb internally for probably it had been years, you know, it was like a tap dropping, slowly dropping, dropping, dropping and building up on this internal struggle I was having with Myla identity with my direction in life. There were a number of factors. There was, there was some sort of, at the time I had my breakdown and at the end of April, 2017 come off the back of a very stressful situation with, with someone who had kind of lied to us and taken the money and not a lot of money, but I took it very personally coming out of the back of that I had had some panic attacks like the year before, my first major panic attack was off the back of a situation. Speaker 4: (06:32) When I started to realize that things weren't right. And so I've been, I've been in hindsight dealing with depression and anxiety, social anxiety for most of my life. So before I knew what to call it, because I'd always, you know, I compared myself with other people and you look at the worst case scenario, the worst of the worst person who has suffered terrible mental illness and there's a full range. You're somewhere on, everyone's somewhere on the spectrum. So I never thought that I really had a problem with, with the time to, to fix or to try and address. So for years, this tape dropped and dropped and dropped. But it finally got to the point where I reached my breaking point and, and that's where the book really kind of begins. You know, I, this is, this was where my life kind of fell apart and I was diagnosed with depression, something that one, and for New Zealand as well experienced in the lifetimes. It's very, very common. We don't talk about it, but from the time I had my breakdown, that was when I started to she and to reach out and actually address it properly. Yup. Speaker 3: (07:42) And I mean, this is, this is, you know, like we do sometimes think that because I didn't, you know, love through the most horrific thing. The four don't have a right to be depressed in any way. And that's really a dangerous thing what you say, because then you don't address it. You don't know. Look out front. And you know, having had depression myself and having it rock bottom a number of times in my life I can totally relate to this feeling. So what actually had of it? How did it manifest itself when it really crashed? And this is what usually happens, you have a big crash. Speaker 4: (08:19) Well, basically I had been building out for months, weeks and months really seriously to the point where I was, I was desperate and feeling you really love myself. I was really irritable. Which is, which was a number one symptom and, and nightly mean like does anger where it's a rational, you don't really know what it's about, where it's coming from. And so like I was snapping it feeling really bad and apologizing straight away. And then, Mmm, in rhino it was sort of aware that things were about off, but she didn't, I, I mainly had it from everyone around me and I was just feeling internalizing everything. I was feeling all this mental strain, a lot of it, very subconscious. And it was just building up on me, building up and when it really crashed my, my daughters that had their cousins around for a sleepover extra. Speaker 4: (09:15) And so, Oh, it was under a bit of a bit of pressure there and I wasn't feeling good in myself. And I kind of had a boat, an outburst in front of all the kids in the kitchen over breakfast. I went upstairs and I was just sort of sliding back on my bed, really searching for what was going on, a real, I was feeling very desperate. And then, and then I looked over and I saw a vision and I'm actually in my bedroom now, so I looked over at the on suite away and a version of myself hanging in the doorway. No. Did well flashed into my, I w it wasn't, it wasn't even in my mind, it was like Alison nation. There was signs of it and a real that it just scared me straight. It gave me a white to, to the real problem that was there was head name. Speaker 4: (10:07) And I, it was, it was very frightening. Mmm. They fleshed up and then it was gone. You know, very quickly, and I described this in the book and that was the moment I reached out. I already had a and they haven't used for help. I've been seeing a counselor for, for the panic attacks I'd had the year before, but I got through that sort of put the bandaid on there, which was great, but hadn't really dealt with the main thing, which was this depression that was coming. Yep. And so I reached out for here and cold out for my wife and from there moment there was, there was no more facade of, of being okay. And it'll come down and it was just relating, Speaker 3: (10:52) No. How was that for a man on an eye? Like, you know, woman generally have a, a slightly perhaps easier time or sharing their emotions and how was it for a, you know, good Kay, we broke two to open up about something like this and you know, even to write about this afterwards is, is it quite, you know, like difficult and how's it been? How's it been received? Speaker 4: (11:15) I think for me it maybe was a little bit easier for me than for maybe other men who don't have an outlet. Yeah. I'd been a writer, you know, for a long time in June, freelance for a long time. I've been writing a blog about my life at home with the children in the early days. The ups and downs of life in a really honest blog about parenting and which was pretty entertaining to people were in serious, you know, I touched on some serious topics of miscarriage and grief and the stresses of being a parent and, and the identity of being a, being in the workplace and then coming home and not having that anymore. And then when I gave up alcohol in 2016 my blog, I'd started blogging and The signs, Diane is, is a good friend of mine, a lot of Dane has written books about her sobriety and, and keeps up the website living sober, which I joined. Speaker 4: (12:09) I'd done an article for drug foundation on her. And she inspired me to one of the people that really inspired me to give up drinking and, and just say, you know, get rid of that depressant. Yes. It's like they had a way basically taking that away rule the mental health staff to the four that was already bubbling away. I no longer had alcohol to kind of put the bandaid on the problem. I had to deal with it. So this is a very common thing that people would give up. Alcohol, I have to kind of deal with life in the war and without, without that thing, help them. So yeah, so like probably losing sight of the questionnaire, which often happens with me when I go on and on. But I have been blogging about, I've been doing this daily blog on those pseudonyms. Speaker 4: (12:54) So man, three, six, five. And actually if you, if you Google sideman three, six, five, the blogs are start up online. I, I blog for a year, the first year of sobriety that about seven, six, seven months and it became a blog about more about depression and about, about the struggles I was having. Wising up to that stuff. I'd already had the panic attack and that started writing about that. And then they know I, you know, I had my big crash and I stopped writing for a period of probably at least a week or a week and a half. We are obviously just trying to get through and getting through each moment really. And I wasn't able really to do anything. You know, I was, I was stripped back and control. I couldn't drive. I couldn't do much more than lie on the couch and just try and get, you know, get through the day. Speaker 4: (13:43) And so when I started riding again, I reentered the blog. Mmm. Talking about the depression. So being open about it, it already happened. So I win. You know, I decided to write the book, you know, I knew, I knew that writing as honestly as possible, it was really important. So you don't just talk in generalities and let people fill in the gaps. Oh, I've got my experience. I'm not an expert on depression, but I'm an expert on my own depression. And in that way, there's this universality of it. No, I mean everyone has a very unique experience in different ways that they can coping and get stroller. But I, I put my roadmap down in the book to help out other people you know, build their own roadmap. So Speaker 3: (14:27) You've come through this time and I know that you know, and it's moving to the part of the story where, you know, it's called the longest day for a reason. Speaker 4: (14:38) What happened there also in February, 2018. So I'm sort of, I'm throw the worst part of the depression, the, the railway early days when I'm getting on the medication, you know, I'm getting back to functioning and, and my, my heat's clear and the fog is lifting and I'm starting to look for the challenge, the next thing that I can do because basically you guys stripped all responsibility. I just stopped. I was a big being at home. It was actually easier for me and I don't know how people who work do this. Rhino, he was able to take all that pressure off me and I could just work on my recovery. And so then I was looking for the next thing to actually do the next challenge. And my friends were finishing the coast to coast, which is a rice that goes from the West coast, New Zealand tomorrow, serpentine beach. Speaker 4: (15:27) And then it goes all the way across the country over the big mountain. And then you're on down the road down the why man and then you're cycling correct across J 70 case last bike ride into this terrible kid, went on the straightest route and use the longest straightest road in New Zealand. CFA arrived and you're finishing it and you brought in a new youth Sumner that can the day speed do any, it was one of the famous Cathy lunch, all these famous famous people writing Curry, Sam Klein as the Legion, the rice in the moment, four time winner and the most iconic race and captured it beautifully between one side of the country and the other, my friends were finishing and I decided to go out for the first time either to see the finish of this race. I've lived in Christchurch most of my life, always been kind of kept divided by this rice, nivo bean physically there, this is the mistake I made. Speaker 4: (16:12) I go into the race, you go to this race and you get drawn into the rice and you get inspired by all these amazing people. No half of them don't look like acting like that prepared within an inch of their lives. And I are all finishing this rice. You see what it means to them you see on their faces but the struggle. Yeah, the joy, the hardship that the just getting over all these little struggles along the way to get across the Island. And it's, it's not, it's not a sure thing. You start this race and you don't know what's going to happen. You can prepare for everything, but it gets, stuff gets chucked in you. And this is just like as a metaphor for life, this race. So I've seen my friends Spanish, I see Sam clot actually finish. You finished about half an hour before my friends cause the one day people, you even do it in two days or one day. Speaker 4: (17:02) People, we don't know that was raised the two day people start on the second day and sorry, the one night people start on the second day of the rice. I winner in the late people, I pass a lot of the highly end of the two day field, so the flower people. And so I stay in class one time. I say the winner of the rice, I say my friends finish. I see them embraced by their families. They run the last bit of the kids and I'm like, I want to buy the of this. I'm going to. So I decided, I left, I left the race and I'm biking back to my house, 10 Ks away. And so, and as I was biking home I already knew I was going to sign up in 2019 and just would be the vehicle I would use to prep does doing things differently in my life to approach challenges differently because a lot of my problems had been, I've been so hard on myself. The things that are tried or not tried, I'd mainly been a spectator on the sidelines of my own life. Wanting to do some of these things and thinking, no, that's not for may because God, I know I couldn't do that and I decided, right. All right, I'm going to do it. If my friends can do this, I can do this. Speaker 4: (18:14) I mainly knew that this was the vehicle for my book because I'd always wanted to ride. Speaker 3: (18:19) Yes. This well in sport, you know, like, I mean, you know, I've got different, but some of stories really. Speaker 4: (18:31) No, I'm not. I'm Lisa, the late on sort of a, I would, NASA, I'm on a little bit higher than a weekend warrior. But well, no, kind of just hanging under there at a late level. Speaker 3: (18:42) Yeah. Well that's the funny thing Matt. I'm totally not a late and never have been. Oh, hold on. Ever done his work for 25 years at something and got, you know, halfway good at it. Speaker 4: (18:55) It doesn't matter though, isn't it? Yeah, it's the price you say, Speaker 3: (18:58) But, but you know, like as far as ability and like, you know, you put me in a race with you. If I had to go for a jog for you with you, you'd be like off I cry. That like, come on. All right. My husband does it every day. You know, I like, I'm slow. But that doesn't matter. Right. It's, it's the journey that you go on on the inside. That's really what's important. And your, your story actually reminds me of Charlie angle's story a little bit, except he was much more extreme metallic. Charlie is he's the one at random right across the Sahara and he's legend. Widowed in, in, in his story was well, much more alcohol and drugs. So he, yeah, he took, yeah. Now stories to the other end of crazy, but on both ends. Speaker 3: (19:46) But, but this, this, this, the same reason nights through so many of our lives. And when we take up a sport that is hugely challenging, whether it's the coast of ghosts or deer Valley or doing something crazy, it is the hardest thing you've ever done, but at the same time as the best, most rewarding experience. And it changes your perception of who you are. I mean, I, I remember even like when I met my husband at the beginning he was coming to me for running coaching and you know, he wanted to do this charity of running 27 case in full BA. He's a firefighter and full caps, you know, the yellow plastic suits with full BA for charity. And he wanted to know about running in the heat. So who better to ask, right? Speaker 3: (20:32) Teach teacher may touch him in any, any does it. And it goes, it raises lots of money. Awesome. And he, he always thought that ultra marathon runners had to be special types of people with super talents. And he started when he started to get to know me to realize, hang on, there's nothing special about this church. She's just funny. And it realized that, hang on, I could probably do this. And then his life, you know, he's gone on to do lots of ultras and so on. And this story of head over and over and over and over again because we sit ourselves, limitations of what we're capable of, don't we? And we, and we think we can overcome them. And you saw in your friends, so you considered perhaps equals to you that they could do this and therefore that was a gateway for you to Speaker 4: (21:17) Absolutely. And I think also like, you know, really on our mind, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to do the coast to coast until the end, you know, so I turned up. So yeah, so it's not like it's not 243 kilometers across a mountain and across the country and down the river. It's a million States. And so you just start walking towards her and then why it's all that process stuff. So, and there was also a massive antidote to the depression as like depression really does. I mean, they say that old saying goes a depression lives in the past and regrets and the things that you've done and things you're holding on. So anxiety lives in the future and worries about what's going to happen up here. And I had both of those things going on. So, so the coast to coast and training, like you know, you've got to be in the moment. Speaker 4: (22:04) You described this many times Googling down evens pass at 70 Ks an hour on your bike. There's potholes all over the place. It's very much you should, you really need a P in the moment. So, so the poster goes, training draws the past and in the future into the present in the end. So, so you are, you are just soaking up that experience. Like in the past when I trained, I would off be beating myself up about God. I wish I was better and and, and I'd have pain in my body. I some thought, I wish I wasn't hurting and all the stuff, you know, and, and I'd be just fixated on this little rigid small goal of I have to run a certain time in my half marathon. I've always wanted to break an hour, an hour and a half so I could consider myself a good runner. Speaker 4: (22:50) I was like, well, okay, a lot of people would have killed to do, do my best time of, of an hour, 31, whatever it was. And so, you know, I'd never quite made that. And maybe one day it doesn't matter to me now it's, it's really more about the duty because like the, all that time I spent or writing myself and being so hard on myself, and then I wouldn't reach the goal and then I would be like, Oh, there's just another reason why I'm not good enough. Yeah. You know, you know, a lot of people think like this and like, I thought like this all my life. Yeah. The first thing the first thing I had to fix, Mmm. When I was recovering from the, from my breakdown, well, it was my relationship with myself. So you're like, you know, you're talk about you need to lock yourself. Speaker 4: (23:37) That is really important. But to really truly like yourself and say, Oh, my K is so powerful. Mmm. And it does just the mindset tweak. It's just a shift in mindset to the point of, Mmm. From that moment on, you don't hear about all that external stuff. You don't hear about missing up, you don't care about falling out of your boat. So from that point on, once I've fixed my relationship with myself and I, and I went into this training, Mmm. Like a fraud. If I'd been the old man, I would have fallen out of my diet and I would have packed it all up and said, fuck it. I'm not going to do it. I'll, sorry. Sorry. Did y'all eat a data and, and carried me through the year because I'm embracing making mistakes and knowing that it was all a learning process and nothing's perfect. Speaker 4: (24:28) And my race, my two races, I edit coast to coast. Neither of them were perfect. I loved every minute of both races. The one, the one which is encapsulated in the book and then the one that I did this year earlier this year the best experiences of my life because you know, I've, I've now gained this massive community of people. Oh, I'm so connected now to hundreds and hundreds of people that do this race. It's opened my life up instead of like me going, God, I wish, I wish I had more friends. So I wish that I hadn't with deep friendships in my life, all that stuff was there all along, but he still wasn't being a very good friend to myself. I didn't feel I deserved it. Now that I'm, that I know that I'm okay, I realize that and I'm embracing that, but everything else has just improved. So I still struggle with depression and fate. Speaker 4: (25:19) Two days ago I really crushed again, like it had been building up subconsciously. My, my lockdown experience has been like a dream can be to a lot of people's and like kids have been so wonderful, but yeah, but I haven't, I need this space. I need the aligned time. And I need the time to just risk that, you know, when the kids are at school, if I'm not doing well, yup. You know, I say it's okay for me to risk cause I need to do that or there's certain strategies I've put in place and I haven't been able to do that. So that boat up to the point where it just all came out and, and, and I was like the irritability and the anger and the just feeling side low and just the brain fog was bad. And, but I've been here before. I lived experience, I know passes in the news today I signed up and did a yoga class and 9:00 AM to just get my day rolling in the right way and, and just yeah, like in street, like your home, I'm homeschooling. I'm not a teacher. Speaker 3: (26:18) You're not alone in this panel. I think there are many linear, many parents now they going, hell yeah, I get you. Speaker 4: (26:25) So you'd be a stay. It doesn't matter. Really the bigger picture is that you're okay. Yeah. And that everyone's happy. Speaker 3: (26:32) You know what? And what I find powerful about data to say, sometimes people write about, you've written a book, I've written three books. People think you've got it all together now you've written about it in a year together and you're, you're on top of it. And nothing could be further from the truth. We are all on a journey and as you said before, there's a spectrum and there's a, you know, we're all improving our mental health and I've been doing a lot of study lately on functional genomics and looking at genes and your predisposition to certain ways of you know, how long adrenaline stays in your body, how fast the dopamine mean is take, is processed, all of these chemical things and actually have an influence, which I'd love to talk to you about actually separately. I'll, I'll on that topic. When you, once you start to understand your genes, I think that all and what you can do to, to help support that that will be a really another great thing to, to, to have in your toolkit. Speaker 3: (27:24) But we need talkative. This isn't talking about like every time I go through a horrible experience and hard times, I really have a little bit more then I can use it. It can, it can either break me and there've been things that have nearly broken me and where I thought I was broken. And that was that. But you know, I managed to stand up. And then when you do stand back up, you've got another tool that you've been able to overcome. And this is why [inaudible] this story is so powerful and I really encourage people to go and get the book the longest day. Mine's on its way. And I'm looking forward to diving into it and into the story. And it really, if, if this, if this interview you guys sitting out there listening to this, if this is the reason I did with you, what's Matt saying? Speaker 3: (28:12) And you think that this could help you know, ground. Grab that book the longest day, shake it out, see what Mets all about and, and see if, if there's something in there for you that can help you. We write these books because we're just sharing Ella stories and we're not experts necessarily, but the, the value lies in the [inaudible] okay. In being open sharing honestly. Yeah. And giving other people a new perspective on the crap that they're going to, cause sometimes you cannot see the forest for the trees when you're in the middle of it. And another thing is, yeah, Speaker 4: (28:49) That your experiences as, as you need better does really quite universal. And the more you share about what's happening for you, then then you're giving other people permission. Feel connected. But also to share about, back to you, like, so you get back what you reflect out. And I, I've, I've seen it, what's going on with me with a lot of people, perfect strangers in a way, within 20 seconds of meeting a perfect stranger. I've gotten really good at being able to just sorta segue into a real deep conversation. And it's really one voice because, okay, we're, we're all, we're all sort of wandering around the planet aimlessly and then we collide with each other and we can make these really kind of amazing connections. And you don't have to be the best friend or the person you'd leave them. You might never see them again. But if I felt quite special way and then Speaker 3: (29:40) You feel and Speaker 4: (29:42) Going around being, I mean we have to do with our professional hats on and network and song be a certain way and so on. Well I don't have to, cause I'm sad I'm gay so I'm the most unprofessional person. Speaker 3: (29:52) But this is a thing and this is why I think we buy some, you know, we both kept them of our own ship cause I don't go to work either. I work my ass off but I wasn't going to work is that I can be who I am and that is the most precious thing to me and I can be the real person and not the person that, you know, people want me to be, you know, at least my son. You can just be you and [inaudible] and you can connect and this is what the other are that sport does. And when you're out doing the, the either coast to coast or an ultra marathon somewhere, you go through so much shit and that period of time and so much hardship and so much pain and so much doubts and so much whatever and the preparation and everything that the person that's running next to you or your crew or whatever the case may be, that going through it with you and they're experiencing. Speaker 3: (30:40) And that creates a bond that can, that is better than what the normal bottoms when you just go to have coffee with your friends, you know, and it's like, you know, when soldiers go to war together and they come back, they have a bond that I don't think we as outside people can ever actually understand because they've wrapped together and there is a beauty in this, even though it can be hard at the time. There is a beauty in that as well. And having those deep connections with other humans is a real human need. And you know, we, we sort of sometimes think we can be lone wolfs and we can, I mean, I used to definitely try and be the lone Wolf and I don't need everybody and and it was only because I was hurting, you know, it was only cause I didn't have that connection that I really sought needed. And you do dumb things in, you know ma, I know you've got a, an appointment to get to and I've got another coaching session to do. I would really like to continue this conversation, you know, maybe in a second or a little bit later on because I think it needs to be really explored so we can people buy the book, where can they find out about you and your blog and all the other work that you're doing that. Speaker 4: (31:49) So, so the book is published by element on one. I just hear from them that that wall are not fulfilling orders at the moment, but when it starts back up again, you can order it. Online. You just, you just Google the longest day met Kellman at all. They all know at links pop up, you can get it for Kindle on Amazon and for a reader on ebooks.com. Which was another instant way to be able to read it in the lockdown. A lot of people have done that yet. Speaker 3: (32:19) ebooks. And do you have a website met that you personally have? Speaker 4: (32:24) Yes, mattcalman.com so MA, T, T, C A L M A N . com l and he's a lengthier actually to to buy the book. And you sit on my photos. thats from my racing in falling out a client days, which Speaker 3: (32:40) Will continue. I wouldn't even, I had a certain one, one of those rice ones you haven't loved until you said. That's nice. Good. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. I really appreciate it. It's been an honor to have you on and to meet another fellow author, you know, doing, doing cool stuff in the world. So thank you very much for your time. Thanks so much. Been great. Speaker 1: (33:08) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.  

Founder of Be Pure Ben Warren talks to Lisa about what you can do to boost your immune system, give your body optimal nutrition and attack systemic inflammation, a major cause of many chronic degenerative disease.   Lisa and Ben discuss everything from your hormones and how they work to our gut bacteria and nurturing your microbiome to getting the key nutrients you need to stay healthy.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) Welcome back to pushing the limits this week. I have a special interview with Ben Warren of Be Pure. Now Ben is a celebrity nutritionist, very well known in New Zealand and an absolute authority when it comes to health and wellbeing and I had a really great interview with him so I'm going to pass over to him in a moment. But before I do, just a reminder, if you want to join me on my book launch tour and holding online book launches every Thursday night at 6:00pm if you go to booktour.lisatamati.com you can register on there and join me live meet my amazing mum. Here are background stories behind the book, relentless and if you want to grab the book really is to straight away. You don't want to wait for the book launch, then head on over to lisatamati.com you can grab it as an audio book, as a paperback, Amazon Kindle, every which way known to man. It's available. So head on over to lisatamati.com Right now over to Ben Warren of BPO. Well, hi, everybody Lisa Tamati here. Today I am sitting with Ben Warren, who is our famous national treasure in regards to nutrition and healthy lifestyles. Welcome. It's great to hear. That's very humbling. You're a legend in this country already. So for those who don't know, BenI know when you, you know, you would have missed that. But Ben as the founder and owner of Be Pure, which is a, what is it? It's actually been explained what Be Pure is because it's not just some, Speaker 3: (01:52) What is it? No. So true. Yeah, it is. We're, we're, we're basically an education company and so essentially we're an education company that educates people well around diet and lifestyle factors to improve people's quality of lives. People's help people on their health journeys. That looks in a variety of different ways. We have, we do have nutritional supplements, we have educational resources to help people eat better, to live healthier. We have a laboratory that does very advanced hormone testing. So there's a number of why is that we come in to try and ah, yeah, help people on their health journey really. Because, you know, we're all on this journey trying to be, be healthiness and enjoy life as much as we can. And yeah, the, the company is really a platform to help people do that more. Speaker 2: (02:44) Yeah, absolutely. And I'm fascinated to watch your journey, you know, like as a, as a company Be Pure as is being a role model for our company and learning from you guys and what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's been quite fascinating. And you know, you've been kind enough to share tips over the years. And one of the big tips that I have to tell people and also saying executive vain. He was the first one that put me onto hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which of course was absolutely key in my mom's rehabilitation. And his, his, you know, I ended up being then have now solve the clinic, but it's, it's European available might be more, well now in the, in the, you know, area for Brighton rehab and for many other areas as well. So that was a huge step that been just, you know, off the cuff, taught me one day when we were talking about mum and has her situations, I think that was really key. You're welcome, you're welcome. And it's so, so otherwise they say you're so inspiring in whatever you're doing and, and you know, where'd your mom and tell her story and her recovery. That's just kind of what we expect from you now. Speaker 2: (03:57) You know, the sorts of research and things that goes into any health journey. And it's never just a, you know, like I think one of the providing mentality unfortunately with a lot of people is that we go to the doctor, we get a single pill and we take the pill and we're all good. And you and I know that, okay, health is really a motive faceted thing that we need to be always tweaking and learning and developing in being open minded as to how to improve. And we, our knowledge is of course in, you're at the cutting edge of, of research and so on. And always learning the next thing, and this is, this is what leads to being along team health I think is having that attitude, that open-minded attitude to, you know, looking at what the latest research is saying and building the blocks that are required from the exercise to the sleep, to the meditation, to the supplements, to the photos. You know, all of these aspects play a huge role, don't they? Speaker 2: (04:56) Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more or less, or if it is, you know, for all of us, we were on this journey, on the shot's journey and, and life throws, throws things at you, you know, you suppose curve balls at you and then you have to be able to pivot and respond to those. You know, just as we're recording this right now, we'll see during the COBIT 19, knocked down in New Zealand. And so a guy in a whole different set of challenges around health. Right now I'm from social isolation through to boredom, eating, emotional eating you know, something, you know, [inaudible] but having to deal with a lot of different things. And so, you know, life changes and but, but it's certainly the more you can do those fundamentals really well, like you mentioned those lifestyle factors, we know that you, you know, you're going to weather it better. Speaker 2: (05:44) Exactly. Exactly. Instead today they are wanting to talk with you some of the key learnings that you have around, you know, because we are in this coronavirus, time building immunity and voting our bodies up to be strong so that they can cope with, with virus and things that come at us. In delving deeper into, you know, some of the areas that you've been working in and also some of the nutrients that we really need to think about being edited into our, into our diet, whether that's through supplements or whether that's through food. So what would be your top tips for boosting immunity? Okay. Speaker 3: (06:25) Yeah, I think, you know, when we start looking at diet and lifestyle factors for immunity, Mmm. There's probably sort of three or four key areas, but we can improve our foods. What are we eating, our nutrient levels and then lifestyle factors and, and, and I mean the full one, which kind of comes in under, under the food's weightings, also our gut. Yeah. So let, let's, let's start at the started the, the food aspect first. And so ideally we want to be eating, you know, this foods we want to be adding [inaudible] there are going to be benefiting to try immune systems. So these are, these are going to be a whole foods nutrient dense foods, so lots of vegetables, high quality fats and proteins. And so there's a number of factors, you know, the fats and proteins are the [inaudible] tools to build immune molecules. Speaker 3: (07:14) [Inaudible] [inaudible], Bye diet or you know, light. So by seeding a lot of plants, vegetables, that's going to have a ride the best environment for the, for the beneficial bacteria and the microbiome, which is [inaudible] the first line of defense really for an immune system. And then you know, from from from a whole food aspect. There's also things we want to be then eliminating. So you ideally trying to minimize sugar as much as possible because sugar feeds the unfriendly bacteria, which then impacts our immune system. And then really trying to minimize also, Mmm, sure. I, I'm not a big fan of gluten containing foods for a lot of people. They really struggle with glutinous protein, your immune system's responding to gluten as a protein. And so minimizing gluten as a protein. So the first step would be that the whole food step. Mmm. Yeah. And then so I go on to talk about nutrients. Speaker 2: (08:07) Yeah. Well, so this was just a sick that, you know, when you say like gluten's not good. I mean, I mean, I'm of the opinion that gluten is probably bad for all of us, which is a really hard pill to swallow because I like Brandon, I'll be honest, I really struggled with the braid one. It is, it isn't good for any of us as a, it's not just people who are good you know gluten intolerance or celiac disease people. But it, it, what does it actually do? Why is it such a insidious, isn't it? Is that one of the LinkedIn's, you know, is it one of the, in the LinkedIn family? Speaker 3: (08:42) Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, there's a number of factors to it and you actually, rightly so, the research does show that the, the gluten has been shown to be inflammatory for everybody. So in this study they took people who are celiacs, who we know have a strong immune response to gluten and non-celiac, and they found that it didn't matter whether they were celiac or not, whenever they gluten increased inflammation. So we know that it is inflammatory for everybody according to the research. And so why is it so inflammatory? Well, I guess there's a number of reasons, but let me see if I can sort of put this together succinctly. On a basic level, the red wording now is nothing like the bread that your grandmother was eating. So you know, if we go back, okay. Over the last 50 years, the hybridization of grains has, has, has meant that the gluten content has increased. Speaker 3: (09:30) It's meant the unbeknowing to the, you know, actually Norman BOLO, who, who, who did a lot of the hybridization got a Nobel prize for it. [inaudible] Did concentrate the lectin levels. So they are higher, much higher levels of blood jeans in modern wheat varieties. Now, lectins are a molecule plants make to stop insects from eating them. And so it looks like in increasing the lectin levels in weight, modern weight they, they, they basically made it so the insects can't hate it, but it looks like humans can't tolerate it either now. And so definitely the lectin component of it is [inaudible] [inaudible]. Also a contributing factor together with in the modern world we seem to have, Mmm. A lot of leaky gut issues and this is where the junctures in your gap start getting loose and the food particles we're eating start getting into the immune, into the bloodstream where we get an elevated immune response. And so we don't know, maybe it's the sugar, maybe it's the lifestyle, maybe it's nutrient proficiency. So we don't know exactly what's driving this perfect storm of gut leakiness. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that seems to be coupled with this increased intolerance, the bread and gluten. Speaker 2: (10:35) Right. And that's a really good one. Let's, let's talk a little bit about what happens when you get the leaky gut syndrome. So the particles are passing through, partly on digested in, in toxins and chemicals and things that are you. You're inadvertently ingesting when you, when you have food [inaudible] unchecked into the blood system and dissolving into the blood. So that's causing systemic inflammation and toxicity in the NSLS. Is that, is it half works? Speaker 3: (11:04) [Inaudible] Yeah, exactly. So 70 to 80% of our immune system is centered around the are associated with [inaudible] lymphoid tissue, which is in our gut. And the reason being that the easiest way to get a pathogen into your body is to eat it. And so this is the new primary interface between the outside world and now our inside world and our bodies. And so when these junctures start getting loose, we start, like you say, start getting from particles. Mmm. And toxins from the foods we're eating. [inaudible] Big and molecules start getting into the bloodstream that shouldn't be there. And now our immune system then recognize these things, proteins. And, and when we look at you know, I'm interested in, it's constantly looking at the foods we're eating, particularly the proteins going, is this protein food or is this protein a virus or backup Syria because viruses and bacteria that just pertains to, so if basically looks at the proteins and if you got a big in there that shouldn't be there, the immune system goes tags it as, as non-self tags as an invader. And we build specific and new molecules to that. Speaker 2: (12:02) And then Speaker 3: (12:03) Our immune system talks systemically throughout their whole body. And so if you start getting an elevated immune system in your gut so for example, the macrophages which are a big immune molecule, they will talk to the other macrophages in your body and say, Hey, we're getting attacked, Speaker 2: (12:17) Regulate, start looking for anything that looks like. Speaker 3: (12:20) And so we start thinking, getting increased inflammation throughout our whole body, our immune system more than even start taking proteins that are, Speaker 2: (12:29) Oh, Speaker 3: (12:30) Not us. And we start attacking proteins that are us. And I mean that, that can be in the joints as in the case of rheumatoid arthritis. Often it can be in the thyroid, in the case of autoimmune Arthur autoimmune, Hashimoto's and these kinds of conditions. So it then has a, yeah. A systemic effect for our whole body. Speaker 2: (12:49) Wow. So, so a lot of the auto immune diseases which are rifle in their world, you know, like Hashimoto's and thyroid, a classic examples of the body just attacking itself and killing your own tyroid at the end of the day because it's [inaudible]. And even with this coronavirus from what I understand, it's interleukin six is what they've identified as being the, they problematic. Is it cytokine that is Mmm. Yeah. Closing this huge immune response in this or the body overreacts in seats. So many songs just to fight it that it actually starts shooting everything for, you know, as an analogy it starts killing off the good end. The bed. Yeah. Over-reactive immune system. So when we, when we're talking about inflammation, cause most people still are saying inflammation is like when I cut my leg, it goes a bit red and sore and that's inflammation or they get a sore knee when they've tweaked it or something and that, but this is, this is information that is right, the body because it's in the blood system and it's popping out in different areas. Speaker 2: (13:51) So one of the like I've got a brother who's got some very bad Becker shoes and I'm, you know, very much convinced in the work that I've been doing with him that it's a systemic inflammation problem as much as it is a disc problem. And that's a bit of a leap [inaudible] people to make because they think, no, I've got a sore back, I've got a disc problem or I've got a new problem. And they don't actually equate it to actually know the, the, the body's immune system is in overdrive, the inflammation is going, you know, and we need to, we need to address that as well as perhaps looking at if there's a physical injury. But it's actually, you know, looking at that whole, the whole body looking at the gut health. Okay. Speaker 3: (14:36) Absolutely. It's, it's, it's the whole environment. The immune system is talking to the immune system throughout the whole body and, and so the more that we can kind of create environment that that is calming down the immune system, the more that we can have the a wonderful point you raised up around the, you know, the coronavirus instances, the cytokine storm with where the immune system gets out of control and that's actually then becomes dangerous in of itself is we want to well controlled immune system. And this is actually where nutrients like vitamin D comes in [inaudible] controls and modulates your immune response. And so if if we looked at your immune system like a we want your immune system to be like a really good heading dog. And so we want you like, so if you've got a dog in with the sheet you don't want Labradors in the shade because it's just going to cause a whole bunch of collateral damage. Speaker 3: (15:25) That collateral damage being inflammation. What we want is a really good heading. Dog knows exactly when to go in and exactly when to stay sitting here and not just the shape. And so Benjamin Day is like the shepherd with the whistle, the controls, the immune system. It controls when the dog goes in and out. And so having adequate vitamin D, and this is one of the reasons why adequate vitamin D is so important for our immune system is cause they actually modulate some controls. This immune response as do Omega three fatty acids, Omega three fatty acids as found in fish oils and only fish salmon. They, they, they make specific molecules that can help turn off that interleukin six inflammatory marker. And so they modulate and control the immune response Speaker 2: (16:06) That is, that is quite fascinating. Vitamin D is not just, they, they're actually pulling out a whole mine of [inaudible] now that it has, because there's so many influences throughout the body and vitamin D also in relation to calcium. So I'm taking it with keto and vitamin a is a good combination help you. Speaker 3: (16:27) Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. They used the nutrients. They, Oh, they, Oh they work together. And depending on which biochemical pathway, they have different cofactors for of the bone. A bit of a D controls you uptake of calcium and vitamin K two controls the deposition of calcium as where you're putting the calcium in your body. Cause we want to put the calcium in the bones. We don't want to put it in the soft tissue like Andres because that's associated with increased Heartland speeds. And so borons also required with bone factor. And so yeah, when you start looking at M D for immunity, it's coupled then with C, it's a couple of grips saying it's a couple who are a bit of an eye. So you did it. It's like a it's like a symphony and orchestra and different parts of the orchestra need to be playing at different times for, to create this harmony of, of human health. Speaker 2: (17:15) So that's a beautiful way of putting it. I'm in the middle at the moment and you know, I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I've been studying functional genomics inside of looking at different DNA specific DNA genes and the different pathways at nighttime. And yeah, it's been fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And one of the interesting ones was the vitamin D. Jane the name escapes me right now. Yeah. Can't remember what now, which switch. Yeah. Something like that. And what was interesting was that if you have the poorer conversion of vitamin D so that you, if you, for example, come from it's necessities that are closer to the equation or where there was a lot of sunshine in your ancestry, then you have often lower level of serum vitamin D in the body. And it can't be carried in by the transporter either very well. Speaker 2: (18:15) And so you need to have extra vitamin D, especially if, say somebody who's come from one of the hotter climbs and sisterly, and then you're living in a colder climate with this list, you know, sunlight and so on. So that was a really interesting Simon vitamin say was all side is there's a Jane that regulates the amount of vitamin C that's going around in the body. In some people who have the wrong variation, can not be able to process or not carry the vitamin C as efficiently as others. So again, I need an increased amount of vitamin Sansar. It's this really fascinating area science when you start looking at, Oh, so that's why somebody might react better to, to supplementation then, then somebody over here. And, and going into all of those, those, the specific Jane's, it's just been absolutely mind blowing. Speaker 2: (19:08) And I, I wish I had it off the top of my, my, my, well I hated the moment when I die, but it's just like I'll be studying under dr Mansell Mohammed who I hit on the show rates and a couple of times in the last couple of weeks. And it's, I'm really, really important to know, like to understand your Jane's, to get Jane profiling done. Cause then you can actually gauge which way your, you know, your hormones are going. I mean, I know that you do hormone testing when we're getting a bit off topic, but so you're looking at the pathways and so on that, you know, with the if you've got, so what are you home on T stone actually been, can you explain them a little bit? Speaker 3: (19:48) Yeah. So that, yeah, that's a great point. And so I completely agree with all that Lisa. Like, like the the future of Oh, nutrition is in personalized nutrition. And so I've always been a big believer that it's about finding what's right for you and, and absolutely on a, on a nutrient level. And just, just on that, on Benjamin Day, just to, so the highlight to your listeners, you know, Speaker 2: (20:10) Mmm. Speaker 3: (20:10) 84% of new Zealanders in one study, 84% of new Zealanders are tested low in vitamin D and that's 18 animals. So, you know, we, we've got massive Bitterman deficiencies and, you know, obviously we're using sunscreen, we're not getting out of the sun as much, et cetera. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of, lot of different issues there. So when you start looking at the hormone testing. So let's jump back to the hormones. Yeah. So we were using urine metabolites. So with you in metabolites, you really pretty much get to see the whole hormone cascade. Whereas if you go get a blood testing the hormones you just go into yeah. Get one form of estrogen usually eat too. [inaudible] We'll do progesterone, but they're not gonna Speaker 3: (20:47) Necessarily see your types of gesture. And how is that guiding and, and also the timing of your progesterone is very important cause your progesterone is only going to really peak around day 19 to 22 of your cycles. So you need me to be getting the timing of that blood test. Exactly right. So what, without testing, we've got and incredibly advanced in the bar too. Actually one of the most advanced machinery in the world, liquid chromatography, mass spectrometry, where we are taking the urine and looking at it, how your body's breaking down these hormones so that we can then see how many hormones you have. And we can see the whole humor, new cascades. So you can not only see whether people, you know, the estrogen, but, but how is your body breaking down that estrogen? Because some forms of best, Jerome as it breaks down, are actually fairly toxic. One form is [inaudible]. It's actually the most researched molecule for breast cancer. Speaker 2: (21:36) Yes. Speaker 3: (21:37) So you, you're starting to see the whole cascade of what's going on. And, and yeah, obviously that's really useful for women who you know, having menstrual pain, menstrual difficulties, fertility issues, PMs, symptomology, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome, really useful for them to see what's actually going on and to help them and to help normalize their cycle. Speaker 2: (21:59) Yeah, it's really fascinating because this is an area that I've focused in on too with the Jane tasting. So looking at the, you know, the 1781 and the SRD five 82 and the sip 1981. And whether it's going into the two hydroxy or the four hydroxy pathways or you got it. Yeah. It's, yeah, we need to know this before we put a woman on the pill or what we put before we put a woman on board. I didn't go home therapy. These things need to be checked because we're, you know, we're, what, what might be perfectly fine for one woman can be a complete disaster and lead to cancer for another person. And so having this sort of testing available and understanding what pathway your body is, you know, because the four hydroxy estrogen, what you talked about there as being very inflammatory and the Quinones and the [inaudible] that are produced from the Fremont doxy and then if you have a slow comped Jane, so you can't get rid of it very well. Speaker 2: (22:56) We CLO. Yeah. It's a very complex matter that needs to be and we need to dissect this before we go and give somebody you know, certainly the contraceptive pill or the hormone replacement therapy. We need to understand those factors before we go and do that. I think it's quite shocking to me that is a, is a young woman is most young woman, you know I was put on the pill and all of the the downstream problems that that has caused for me in my body a thing quite horrific, you know, whereas for another person, that might've been fine. So I th that's an area that I think, you know, having the case done and understanding your personal pathway and your body's at right now and how old you are and with your producing is stroller or still extra dial or you know, all these things have a risk factor for the cancer situation. Speaker 2: (23:55) So it's really exciting that you've got that testing here now and there's, it's available for people to be able to understand their own gene pathways. There was a taste recently done the, the name of the scientist, it Skypes me, but they absolutely, it was out of Harvard. Absolutely. Conclusively have now discovered that the pill causes leaky gut syndrome, that, that it increases the permeability of the gut lining. [inaudible] [inaudible] With absolute certainty. So this is something that we need to be aware of because as we've spoke about before, the inflammation that that's going to be causing in a young woman's body. Is it scary, you know, and if you're on the pill for 20 years or 30 years, like I was you can imagine the downstream problems of that. Have you heard about that study at all? Speaker 3: (24:51) Ah, I haven't been, it doesn't surprise me that, you know, a number of medications have been shown to increase leaky gut and gut permeability. We know that, you know, a lot of research around the nutrient deficiencies, the being on the concept of pill drive. And so, you know, ideally it should be given with a high quality motivated man prescribed with a high quality motivated to mitigate the, the, a lot of those side effects. So. Mmm. Yeah. [inaudible] it's a different, a difficult question. I said in a day you work with be empowered around controlling whether they have a pregnancy or not, but you know, at the moment the side effects of, okay, or the pill for some women, Speaker 2: (25:31) Quite severe. And, I mean, this is not to say that the pill is not correct in the, in certain circumstances, but it's informed consent that we want, we want, we want to know what it is, the possibilities instead of just blindly going in and, and having and being on this without a breath he is and not knowing that there are consequences to, because you're basically shutting down a whole system in the body and that is going to have less of consequences, you know? Mmm. But we've gotten way off topic cause we were on absolutely. It's over licensed. But I find that I love to sit down and talk hours with you. That'll be sort of things. So what are some of the other things that we can do to build our immunity? So we looked at vitamin D, we've looked at our gut health. So probiotics, probiotics are very important as prebiotics. What is the difference between, Speaker 3: (26:26) Yeah, so probiotics are the beneficial bacteria or the bacteria that have been shown to have a, a known benefit to human health. Okay. So there's obviously a lot of, a lot of now Australians and species that have been researched for all sorts of different benefits of human health, whether that's reducing inflammation, increasing mental, improving digestive health. And so yeah, probiotics are the actual bacteria. And then prebiotics are the foods that feed the back Syria. And so prebiotics, you know, really think [inaudible] think vegetables here. But but you know, the, the, the real standout performer is going to be garlic, onion lakes, the beans and legumes. And so they've got a lot of very complex pumped sugars. [inaudible] The way, don't break down, but the bacteria alive. And so we want to be feeding, you know, it's not only about having the right species and strains and diversity within the microbiome and the gut, but it's also about feeding them, feeding them. So like try. Speaker 2: (27:23) Wow. So when you're taking a probiotic, you're trying to put good, big bacteria into your gut and when you're eating the prebiotic, so, you know, prebiotic, fiber and vegetables and you're also supplements now available. Speaker 3: (27:36) No Speaker 2: (27:37) That's actually giving them the right food to be able to, to thrive. And, and, and get stronger. Mmm. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (27:44) Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a combination of those two. Speaker 2: (27:48) Yeah. You've got a probiotic. Speaker 3: (27:50) Yeah, we have. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a probiotic gut renew. It's an incredible probiotics, 18 strains, you know, researched and then they strange for, for human health 30 billion viable bacteria, very, very strong. It's an enteric coated actual, so that delivers the, delivers the bacteria, so through to the large intestine where we want it. And so we, yeah, we get a lot of very, very good results with that. Speaker 2: (28:17) That sounds excellent. Okay. So that's probiotics, vitamin D, what else is on the list for immune building supplements and foods? Speaker 3: (28:27) Yeah, let's talk about vitamin C. Obviously a bit of is required to build immune molecules. We don't make vitamin C anymore as, as a mammo. And it's interesting when you look at the genes around that most likely we don't make it cause we didn't need to make it cause we were eating so many fresh vegetables and fruits that we were getting adequate vitamin C that our body was like, you know what, there's a pathway here. We don't use it anymore because we're getting so much. So that's most likely turned off over the millennia. And so, but in the modern world, we're not getting enough vitamin C, again, a study out of a target of new Zealanders showed that a lot of new Zealanders were deficient in vitamin C, which is surprising because you know, you sort of think, are we not eating fruits and vegetables? Speaker 3: (29:11) Yes, but we are, but we're not eating necessarily fresh fruits and vegetables. So Mmm. Benjamin CB grades quite quickly. So the older the fruit based with the less Bitterman Cedar isn't it? And so, you know, a lot of the fruits and vegetables you're eating, unless you're growing them yourself aren't necessarily as fresh as I could be. And therefore I see content is actually as high as it could be either. So supplementing with vitamin C, very, very important on a daily level for sure. The skin, the hair for sleep. Mmm. The mood. Very, very important. Specifically under, under times of immune stress, we need more vitamin C because vitamin C is required to build immune molecules. And so so we have a product called [inaudible] [inaudible], which is very strong. I'm sorry, Scott. 1500 milligrams for half a teaspoon. And then, and then another aspect around vitamin C is the bioflavonoids. I recycle the electron vitamin C. Do you really want a two to one ratio of bioflavonoids and you've determined C because then you're getting kind of like double the vitamin C once it gets in your body. The activity levels. Speaker 2: (30:11) Mmm. Speaker 3: (30:11) And so permanency requirements. Yeah, Speaker 2: (30:16) It's a, it's a bioflavonoids net. Like a transporter of the vitamin C in the body or how does that work? Speaker 3: (30:23) Yeah, it's actually an electron donor. So it's like a, so you have a, a cascade of like, so they give their electrons or being an antioxidant means it can give, it's electron away, a spare electron. And so what it does is when vitamin C gives its electron to a for sell to stop it from being oxidized that vitamin C has lost its electron and it can't give it to anyone else, but the bioflavonoid can give its electron to the vitamin C and kind of recycle it. And so the, and so there's a whole, so when you ate a [inaudible], when you eat a deep fried, when you eat deep fried tired of shit for example vitamin a will give its electron to stabilize that fatty molecule. So then, and it's a bit of money is a very nice antioxidant for fats and in Bermondsey will give its an electron to beta mundane and bioflavonoids. We'll give it to the next one. So a bit of SI. And then your body makes a molecule who glutathione, which is a base antioxidant to give its electron to the bioflavonoids. So you have this kind of cascade of recycling of protection throughout your whole body. And, and so and so, you know, this is just one, one reason why a bit of, and CS, okay. Kind of off subject, but it's part of it. Part of this cascade. Speaker 2: (31:29) Yeah. No, very fascinating. This whole block chemical processes fascinate me as like how one donates to the other and gives it to the other elements changed into that. And that's all part of this thing that we, this is why we slow, intricate out, outweigh. We are such in one way was super robust. On the other hand, we're extremely complicated and you get one little thing roles and you start to get problems down the track. Vitamin C and collagen production or [inaudible]. So collagen is needs vitamin C two to be sense of size. Is that the right way of putting it? Speaker 3: (32:03) Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So sort of like, so a lot of these Bitcoins and minerals are the enzyme catalysts. So yeah. So they're actually for enzymes to work, which are like the catalyst to make things happen. They need these mineral mineral cofactors for, for the way I look at it is like, you know, you got a factory [inaudible] know if we looked at the immune system, you've got to factor in your body that builds immune molecule. So at the end of the factory line, yeah. I mean, molecules can go out there and fight. Yeah. You have the raw materials coming into the factory. You've had some proteins and then you have all the stages production, which involved different Benjamins and minerals. And so if you're deficient in one of those vitamins and minerals, it holds up the whole production line so that you can no longer produce as many immune molecules. Speaker 3: (32:50) And so, and so these are these enzyme catalyst cofactors. And so, yeah, Bitterman sees, you know, many, many functions throughout our body as in as easy as is and think it's gonna of a days. And so, Mmm. Yeah. The ability to turnover [inaudible] and build more collagen is, is that right? Limited [inaudible] deficiency. Wow. And the college, it is so important for our skin, obviously I hear and I always, but also for our gut lining, building the gut lining, our joints, we've got a lot of pain. Having good levels of vitamin sane can help with the pain levels. It, it's, it's, it's, yeah. Okay. So, so really is it really and, and you know, yeah. [inaudible] Hmm. Carry on baby. [inaudible] No, that's, I'm, I'm good. Speaker 2: (33:45) That's a lemon recording guys. As we've got to, we're going to like a, one second delay. And it's causing been an honor to talk over each other. We're not normally so rode down with me. Speaker 3: (33:56) Okay. So now, Speaker 2: (33:58) Well we've gone through, okay. Vitamin, vitamin C, probiotics, prebiotics as zinc. You've mentioned. What does zinc do in the body? Speaker 3: (34:09) Yes. Okay. Zane controls over 200 enzymes in your body. Really important for wound healing. Really important for the gut integrity. Very, very important for energy production. Very important for the immune system to build immune molecules. Really important for melatonin. Sleepy time. Oh my own production. Serotonin feel good. Yeah, the happy neurotransmitter. And so you know, zinc is, zinc is really high. Zinc foods can be [inaudible] oysters. W yeah. [inaudible]. Hi, zinc. [inaudible] Egg yolk. Milk. Okay. Pumpkin seeds. Seeds. We generally, when you look at zinc, you think we're getting enough, but many, many, many people are low in zinc. And, and so I'm a [inaudible] big fan of [inaudible] getting the same adequacy. Speaker 2: (34:54) Yeah. I think most new Zealanders I'm from. I remember being in one of your talks years ago and you're saying Speaker 3: (35:00) You gave us all some zinc and whether we tasted it or not and yeah. [inaudible] Then it was a huge problem that we have a deficit in, in, in zinc, in New Zealand especially. Along with selenium. I think the other major one let's just talk on mega threes. Like a mega threes are crucially important. I know for brain health it's been something that's been important for mum and her recovery is Omega threes. What else do I make us priests do in the money? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, well threes, I liked the, the substrate [inaudible] you're really important to the brain. So the brain is 80% fat. Particularly these foams of Omega three are really important. Excuse me just a moment. I'm just going to talk to my daughter. I understand. A cool mate. Okay. She was just cooling the dog. So we're obviously in lockdown. Speaker 3: (35:58) So this is make a three [inaudible]. Absolutely. No, it's pretty special. And so the make it raise help build specific, the immune system helps build resolving molecules to help turn off your immune response. Okay. So this is, you know, really one of the important things is we want our immune system to be really tightly controlled and have having a bigger three is this is why Omega threes are so beneficial for heart disease is because make the Omega threes turn off inflammation and essentially heart disease is an inflammatory disease. So, you know, 19, late 1990 stupid group of German scientists showed its implemation that causes heart disease. And so yeah, this is what you're saying. If we can have adequate mega threes to ensure that we have the ability turn off the immune response when our body [inaudible] safe to do that. Yeah, very, very important for that. Speaker 3: (36:53) Very, very important. Okay, so Amiga three, lower inflammation all throughout the body. So with heart disease, you know, again, I'm going back to the genes. There's a couple of genes that are responsible for how much cholesterol was laid down, how much cholesterol was picked up again, and recycle and police row. [inaudible] Absolutely no itself, not the big bad Wolf and the roam, like we used to think cholesterol was bad, but cholesterol was actually the is bomb for an inflammatory response, but it's the inflammation that's causing us to put the, the cholesterol down that we actually want to actually want to get to. And this is where they are making threes. I'm going to help calm that hole. All the blood missiles in the, yeah. [inaudible] Integrity, Palacio cells can be very, very beneficial. Okay. So then you've got a really great Omega three. Speaker 3: (37:51) Now some of the ones on the market and not so great. Can you explain why people should not go cheap when it comes to fish oil? Okay. Yeah, there's a number of factors really. I guess the first factor is around oxidization. You want to make sure that it's not damaged or oxidized. And so, you know, a study came out in New Zealand showing that many of the, pretty sure it was word damaged, oxidized. We actually do third party testing to ensure the hours. There's an oxidized and then we a bit of an [inaudible] to protect it. We also have a, a special capsule that protects it. Mmm. The new one really wasn't the active ingredients of Omega threes. The keys is, you know, a lot of fish oils, they might sell 2000 milligrams official, but they actually only have 120, 190 milligrams of, Oh actually we do aliens, DHI and epi. Speaker 3: (38:40) And so whereas ours has 1400 milligrams and so they actually get a clinical dose that's effective. To give you an example, you know, make threes are a very [inaudible]. Mmm. Yeah. And the research has been shown to be very beneficial treatment for the depression, but you need to be taking between 1,003 thousand milligrams of EPA [inaudible] for it to work. And so many fishers just don't have [inaudible] simply enough. And then also the concern with officials is, you know, heavy metal toxicity in the fish is also around heavy metals. So it's very important that the the, the, the officials, Mmm. You know, coming from kind of pure sources and then also have been molecularly distilled to eliminate those heads to eliminate those heavy metals. Speaker 2: (39:22) Wow. And that's why, yeah, that's why it's very, very important that you get the right ones when it comes to Omega threes and you know, not, not the $7 ones perhaps. Okay. Well thanks for your time today. It's been really insightful. I, I just, we don't want to wrap this all up now in, in a couple of scenes that says, so why is the immune system like we stress and the immune system is very another key factor, isn't it? Why is that important that we lower acid? Speaker 3: (39:56) Yeah. So there's a very complex relationship between stresses and our immune system. But the, essentially what happens is when we experience chronic stress, our immune system becomes kind of fatigued and suppressed. And so and so it's really, you know, we've got to manage our stress levels so that we don't run into this immune fatigue. And, and you start heading towards a more of a compromise, the immune picture. And so this is where you're managing stress. It's, it's so vitally important. And you know, exercise can be a good stress release. And your meditation, very good. Adequate sleep, really important. And so you're all of these things. Yes. To try and manage these festivals as much as possible. Speaker 2: (40:39) [Inaudible] Sums it up really nicely. We've got to get our stress levels down in order to give your body some energy to actually do the, do the good work and having strong immunity. So I've been I just want you to tell people where they can find you, where they can find out more about your work, your blogs, your education, your compliments, of course. Speaker 3: (41:04) Yeah. Best place. We've got incredible blog and information at www dot [inaudible] dot co.nz, the P U R E. Dot co. Dot N Zed Oh, on social media channels, BPO, Ben Warren on Instagram and Facebook. And so, yeah, if you have any questions, please look us up. Feel free to direct message us and they, and we look forward. So I'm helping you on your health journey is going forward. And just want to thank you, Lisa, have me on your show. You're, you're such a huge to so many of us. I was just in our morning meeting with our marketing team this morning and I said, I'm, I'm, I'm on your show. And, and yeah, one of the girls was like, Oh my gosh. So she was pretty excited to have me talking to you. And so yeah, you've been [inaudible] huge inspiration for her and you know, for all of us about how to how to, how to live life. Oh, thanks so much. Everything you do. Speaker 2: (41:59) Oh, really appreciate that Ben. Cause it is, I love, I love [inaudible] just hanging out with people that are like-minded mentality and who are doing good in the world. And, and I do encourage everybody out there listening to go and check out being on Instagram, on, on Facebook and in follow the BPO blog. Because I am, I get regularly convene and I'm always learning. It's always something new and it's always something that's really key for our health and performance, which is what the show was all about, elevating human performance. Ben, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it, Speaker 3: (42:34) Go on, hanging out. Thank you, Lisa, and we'll say, well, I will play safe everyone. Speaker 1: (42:42) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

We are all facing scary and uncertain times right now and learning ways to mitigate fear and anxiety and tools to help reduce stress and help you make better decisions are really important right now. Mental toughness coach Lisa Tamati shares her insights on how to thrive in the tough times and how to keep control over your physiology.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option. Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:13) Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Welcome back again, I hope you guys are okay during this coronavirus crisis. That's certainly a big change for us. And today because of that, I wanted to do a session on how to not meet fear, get the better of you all my tips and tricks for helping stay focused at this tough time and how you can stay on track. Um, before I go over to the actual interview, I wanted to, um, remind you that I've just released my book relentless. It is available on my website. Um, you can, I'll put it in the show notes, but you can just hit on over to lisatamati.com and under the shop button you'll find it, the F I'd love you to check it out. And it's actually really good book for this type of crisis because it's all about mindset and it's all about how to keep focus and how to deal with, you know, going up against great odds and really difficult and uncertain times. Speaker 2: (01:02) So you want to check that out. That's relentless how a mother and daughter defied the odds. Go over to my website and check that out. Also at running hot coaching, we've got a special going on at the moment for 12 weeks during this whole lockdown time and in the whole coronavirus wanted to be able to offer extra value and to make it, you know, really affordable for people because we have a whole, not only the running programs now we have a full live workout program that you can do and it's only $49 US dollars to join for the 12 weeks. So if we'd been sitting on the fence for awhile thinking about joining us now would be a perfect time to do that. Especially if you're in lockdown and you want your running training programs and at home workouts. All of it's in there right over to the show. Speaker 2: (01:46) Hi guys, just want me to do a session on not letting fear get the better of you. So about the mix of crosses with the coronavirus, we're probably feeling a lot of fear right now. There's a lot of uncertainty there. Jobs are in dangerous and some of us are incomes and so on. So I wanted to do some practical tips that you can do to control the fear response in your body. Because number one, if you have a fear response going on right now, your immune system is going to be compromised and that's not going to be good as if you're going to be fighting this far as which we hope you won't be. But if you are, you want to make sure your immune system is, is up and running. So the first thing that I want you to look into is done for medic breathing, deep dogmatic breathing. Speaker 2: (02:30) Every time you start to feel out of control, feel triggered, feel stress is to do some deep breathing in through the nose, holding for about four seconds out for four seconds and hold for four seconds. Now that is called box breathing. Now you can do it in a different rhythm. If you've got a really good set of lungs, you might get to seven or eight holding it for that long and doing this just I do this 10, 11 times a day. It's, it's my go to as soon as I'm feeling triggered, as soon as I'm starting to feel upset. Now what does deep do? Well, it stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system. You have to submit two nervous systems, your parasympathetic and sympathetic. You want to be stimulating it this time. And there's a lot of fear around a lot of anxiety. The parasympathetic. Now when you stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, you are lowering the levels of cortisol and adrenaline that are being produced. Speaker 2: (03:23) Now these are hormones that are really for fight or flight. So back in the caveman days, which our body is still, you know, back there, we haven't evolved to being really where we are in our current world. So we still react to, uh, outside simulates some, you know, I was fear. So back in the day we might've been running away from a tiger, right? And so we needed this fight or flight response. So the amygdala, which is a part of your brain, deep in your brain, that's your limbic brain, that reptilian brain and its mediate responses to put up your heart, a heart rate, increase your breathing rate, uh, make you shit shallow breathe. It causes in your vision so that you have tunnel vision. Uh, it takes away blood from your prefrontal cortex and gives it all the blood into your muscles and so that you're ready to either fight off or run away. Speaker 2: (04:13) One of the two, the final fight syndrome, you'll know the SES. So that's all control where the medulla, now when you do this, you are taking away energy from your immune system, from your rest and recovery system. And you know, this was a great thing back in the day when we were had periodic stress was situations where we needed to run away from the line really fast. But in our day and age we are constantly bombarded with things like emails or problems with work or a phone call from your shitty boss or something that causes the same response. And it can get to the level where it's chronically your chronic amount of stress and you are constantly in this fight or flight state. So at this time when the coronavirus is here and you've got all this uncertainty, it's really, really important that we start to calm down the parasympathetic nervous system or stimulate, sorry, the parasympathetic nervous system and get things quiet and down. Speaker 2: (05:10) Stop the release of that cortisol and that adrenaline going full bore. And now you want those things at certain times but not constantly because you want your immune system to be operating well and you want to be thinking really clearly and there is a break in your decision making ability when you are in the stressed out state. So going back to the deep breathing now, this deep breathing technique will instantly, and I made really, really quickly start to calm the body down. Another great technique of course is meditation. And this doesn't have to be, you know, sitting on the floor, cross legged in an absolute silence that works for a lot of people and it's fantastic if you can quiet your brain down that way. But it also could just be going for a walk outside and we're all a little bit limited in what we're still at the moment allowed to go outside into get some fresh air. Speaker 2: (06:01) And that brings me to the next point. It's taking, you know, um, control of, of some of the things that you can and not focusing on the things that you can't control right now. Taking control of the basics, good hydration, good nutrition, good sleep habits. All of these things are going to help you to stay in control and make good decisions. Okay. And not focusing just on the negative. The next technique that I wanted to give you is visualization. Now I use this a lot with my athletes and I've certainly used it in my career as an athlete. Visualizing a positive outcome. Visualizing yourself as if it's in a, if it's an a running race, obviously envisaging the whole race and the more real you can make this visualization, the bidder in the cause that we are facing, visualize yourself being in control and being healthy. Speaker 2: (06:51) Visualize yourself and being able to adapt really quickly to this, to the situations at hand and you're getting on top of it and your business is going to be okay and your job is going to be all right. And when you visualize, your brain doesn't differentiate between what is real and what is imagined and okay, you can't control whether you're going to lose your job next week. You can't control movies outside variables, but you can stop your body going into this panic state because that isn't going to help anybody. What you want is your decision making ability on fire. So these visualization techniques can help you to start to regulate that into see a positive outcome. The next thing I want you to think about is the challenge versus threat scenario. So if we see something is a threat, and let's be honest, the crime viruses a bloody big threat right now to everything, to our health, to our loved ones, health to our society. Speaker 2: (07:50) But if we can start to really position they in their minds to see it more as an opportunity or a challenge, then that changes the way we perceive it and we are able to then coat a whole lot better. I'll give you an example from a noncurrent divorce situation, but again from my aesthetic Korea, okay, so if I'm looking at this massive race that I'm doing, it might be in death Valley, it might be in the [inaudible] and the Gobi desert or a Niger. Now, as I'm saying that as a threat and it's going to be terrifying and it's gonna be horrific, then guess what's going to happen? My body's going to shut down. I'm going to be in the fight or flight mode. I'm not going to be reacting really well. I'm not going to be coping when you, well, if I can reframe it in my mind to being an amazing opportunity to have this wonderful adventure and to have to turn it into a challenge in an a, an ability to be able to see this in a positive light. Speaker 2: (08:48) And I want you to think about this. Cisco rhino virus is going to give us some benefits. There are some good things that are going to come out of it for each and every one of us. It might be a complete pervert in your lives and you're going to end up doing another job and get out of that dead end job that you've been stuck in but too scared to leave and now you have to leave. So you're going to have to think and learn and redirect. Maybe that's going to be a good thing at the end of the day, none of us actually know. So they're good. They could be real positive things. Going back to a situation like with my mum and I've, you know, I've got my books here in the background. This the story is a really powerful one for the situation that we're going through. Speaker 2: (09:28) When I was faced with mom's aneurysm and that's the fact that she was probably not going to survive and if she did, she was going to have massive brain damage, which she did have and that she was never going to do anything again and I could've taken that prognosis. And just accepted it and taking no action and stayed on decided, no, I'm going to use this. These people telling me that there's no chance and there's no way I'm going to use that as motivation to prove them wrong and I'm going to make this the greatest comeback story and I'm going to get my mum back. And those were the thoughts that I feed into my mind so that I was able to take big, strong action and so that I was able to cope with the stresses that were come at us and it's been, you know, a four year long battle, don't get me wrong. Speaker 2: (10:12) There were times when I was on the ground balling my eyes out and not knowing which way to go forward. The thing is I did keep moving forward and I did keep looking for the next decision. I hate to make the next situation. The next opportunity and that attitude of going all in is one is lead to him miraculous recovery. This is a one in a million recovery, but it's not a one in a million because she was anything special or because I'm anything special. It was a one in a million recovery because we never even gave up and we kept fighting and we looked for the opportunities and we saw the beauty in this process, and this is why I've written the book, is because I want other people to have a blueprint for your mindset and what it takes to go all in on a challenge. Speaker 2: (10:57) And in this Corrado bar situation, we're going to have to go all in. Some of us, this is gonna be, you know, a threat to our incomes and our lifestyles and a massive of change. And we can either crawl up into a facial ball and start crying our eyes out and go, well I can't take any action or we could be warriors and we can stand up and go. Not a lot. I'm not going to take this line down. I'm going to go down sliding if I'm going to go down in going all in with this, with a situation with mum, I know that I could have done all of that and still failed and still lost here. That wasn't the point though. I had no option but to go all that because the alternative was certain days in certain loss. So I had a tiny chance and I took that tiny chance and when everybody told me it was impossible, I just kicked all moving and kept ignoring the people that told me it was bad. Speaker 2: (11:49) So right now what you also want to be doing is surrounding yourself with positive people. If you're listening to this, but you know this video, then you probably want of those people that is looking for a positive input and good messages. And that's fantastic because you are the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So if you are around positive people who have a direction, who are saying, right guys, this is the way we're going and this is why we're going to think this is the way forward. And you start listening to positive messages instead of the ones who are, Oh my God, the world is ending. It's apocalypse now and it's all going to be horrific. And you know, like we all have moments like there, don't get me wrong that I don't have those moments, but I keep them in check. Speaker 2: (12:34) And then I turned my mind around again and I tune it again and I tune it again. Every time those negative thoughts come up, I start to turn them around. So I wanted to now talk about, uh, exposure therapy. Now this is another therapy that can be really, really helpful if you are feeling a lot of fear. Now this is not exposure to the virus. We don't want that. But this is like when you are feeling fear for a certain situation or a certain thing that you have to do. And it might be like having to change your profession because you know someone's going to has to. Um, I want you to understand that the more you do something, the more it's going to be, the less you're going to be reacting to it. So I'll just give you a simple example of getting on phone calls. Speaker 2: (13:19) If you hate sales calls, which I used to hate doing sales calls. Now I've changed my perception of what that call is about in term repetition and doing it over and over and over again. It becomes actually a conversation with a friend if the coms nothing to be scared of and most of the things that we face in our life that we are scared of are actually not physical threats. Okay. The coronavirus could be a physical threat to you or your loved ones. I'm not mitigating them, but a lot of the fee is that we have running around in their tummy and then their minds at the moment that it's just going around and around like a hamster wheel is things that I'm never ever going to happen. I even say that the thoughts that we have in our head, the disasters scenarios that we're playing out are not going to happen, so why focus on it? Speaker 2: (14:07) Why not put your energies into focusing on how can I make this the best opportunity for me, for my business, for my profession? How can I help other people? How can I turn this into something that is good for me and my world and my business? I am using this as an opportunity to pivot, to change very quickly, to be adaptable. And I've lost my income. I'll be honest with you, at least six months, I don't have any income. Now I'm a speaker. That's what I do. I go around to conferences, well there are not conferences going on, but I'm not going to sit here and start crying about it. I'm gonna change my perception of what I can do. And then I'm going to pivot really quickly into doing other things and focusing on the positive and they don't get to be prepared also for when life comes back to normal. Speaker 2: (14:52) And we'll we go again. So it's your perception of things is controlling your thoughts. Now I want you, I'm also studying at the moment the functional genomics and this is the study of DNA and genes and how they affect the way everything in your body from methylation to mood and behavior to cardiovascular health, to um, detoxification. All of these areas. Okay. But I wanted to talk to you briefly about a couple of the genes that are in your head and I won't go on to the specifics. I'm going to be writing a couple of blog posts, uh, over the next few weeks and I'm still studying this area of science, but it's absolutely fascinating. There are a couple of genes that really, um, control or give you a predisposition to thinking a certain way and you can get yourself tested and DNA and all that sort of stuff later on when all this crosses over and you find out what you have a predisposition for, um, your edge or to being a gene for example, sample, which is y our adrenal, uh, Jane, if you like, the pains are which variation of the gene as to how long that adrenal and is going to be active on your sip as in your body. Speaker 2: (16:03) And if it's, if you've got the gene where it's going to be attached it to the recipients for a long time and active, you're going to have a harder time meeting golf things. You're going to have a harder time, you're going to have a stronger emotional and printer reaction to things. Um, then another person, another saying is that the brain derived neurotrophic neurotrophic factor, which I'm writing a blog post on now because this has to do with brain rehabilitation, but it also has to do with your mood and your behavior and the how, how susceptible you are to depression and a negative frame of mind. And if you have that, the hamster wheel brain that goes over and over and over. So what I want you to take away from this, without getting into the specifics of which Jane is to realize that every single person is different. Speaker 2: (16:49) Hey, do have a different set of genes. And so we all do experience things in a different way. So if you have someone in your most ho is very prone to panic, is very prone to having neurotic thoughts or the hamster wheel going over and over and getting stuck in a thought pattern and not being able to shift at least understanding some of the factors that are in play here and that their genes just may be predisposing them to doing that. And I'm going to share this blog post that I'm writing at the moment on BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor and what you can do to increase set, uh, in order to help elevate your mood. One of those things for example, is to uh, for the baby and is a example. This is to go and do exercise. Now if you're doing at least 30 to 45 minutes of exercise at 70 to 75% of your heart rate, you're going to increase the production of brain derived neurotrophic and that's going to elevate your mood. Speaker 2: (17:51) And this is why I run, let's get the run is high and I know all of us just enjoy running for the running site. Sometimes we don't even feel like going out there, but after half an hour out there, what happens? You mood elevates. What's that? There's some brain derived neurotrophic factor, inaction, other things that also stimulate that and what elevates your mode. Things like having a hot shower or hot bath or being in a hot warm environment or getting more sunlight to make more vitamin D, which will also help you produce more brain derived neurotrophic factor. All of these things are really important also in the brain rehab side, but I won't go into that right now, but just to understand, genetically speaking, we all have different ways of processing things in our brain and having some love and care and empathy for people who've, who don't see them. Speaker 2: (18:39) Some things the same way as you do, who react very differently and some people will have more a deeper emotional imprint. Then other people, some people will be able to get over things much easier because they have the right combination of genes and another person doesn't have that. That is not to be fatalistic and say, well, those people are babied, is to find out the what can you do? Like the saunas and the hot bows and the exercise and the right supplementation and all of that sort of stuff to help you if you are one of those people affected, increase or head of HIPAA. What resilience when it comes to your emotional wellbeing. So more about that later, but for today's podcast it just wants you to think about some of those things that I've covered off. So I want you to be stimulating your parasympathetic nervous system. Speaker 2: (19:31) That means calming your body down. That means stopping the stress and the adrenaline, the cortisol from pouring out all day, all day long. How are you going to do that? You're going to do that through meditation to that true connection to nature, which I've forgotten to mention. You know, like going outside, listening to the birds, looking at the beauty in the trees, looking at the flowers, standing and staring at the beach. If you're still allowed to do that, anything that will connect you and ground you to mother nature will calm your system down. Doing a exercise of course is also going to do there anything that's going to calm the system down. However one portion, don't go and do extremes, amounts of exercise because that will have the opposite effect. Don't overreach at this time. Firstly for your immune system and also for your, you don't want to upset your whole minds and get everything out of balance. Speaker 2: (20:23) Okay, so you want to be, um, a little bit conservative with your training at the moment. Just nice chain tool and doing things like working in and state of just working out. So not just the, you know, running and breathing and hard, hard work, but also aiding and the stretching, the, the yoga, the plankung. So things that are going to calm the body down, especially in the evening when you're wanting to get that slate. Because remember, sleep is absolute King, so doing these basics right and getting good sleep, if you can get it. I was sleep right now would be really gold. It'll help you emotionally cope with the situation and not fall off the DPN and be short tempered and doing all those crazy things. Now, just before I go, you have this thing in the, in the Brian like I said, called the amygdala, which is a very formative part of the brain that controls a lot of these trigger responses. Speaker 2: (21:16) And you know, in the past, I'll be honest with you, I've had a lot of problems with anger management. So I think I've got some warrior dreams from my, my Maori side, either that or the German or Irish sort of data. Um, and I've been triggered in the past and reacted in ways that I, you know, was not proud of afterwards. Um, and also learning to, to manage these reactions. Now a lot better. I wouldn't sound perfect, but I'm a lot bitter. The amygdala reacts before your, uh, your prefrontal cortex kicks into gear. It's very primitive. It's very lightning fast. So if you're feeling triggered right now, you know one of the things that I'm worried about in this crosses is the mystic piece going up is people doing things that they wouldn't normally do because they are stressed out and they're frightened and they're doing all these things and they were make deliver, starting to take control. Speaker 2: (22:07) So I want you to learn just a couple of trucks to keep it under control. One of them is that deep breathing, if you're feeling triggered, if you started to have fights in the family cause you're in close quarters, you've got the kid screaming, you don't know how you're going to pay the bills, your businesses going on the and you're fighting and you know this, this is all us. I think we are all feeling this type of stress right now. Then getting a controlling amygdala and not acting in a triggered state. You know, walking away, going to the other end of the house, doing some deep breathing, starting to tune your logical brain on the way I do this. And getting blood back to the logical brain. Cause the amygdala takes it away from the and helps you, makes you make bad decisions. The rang, I get a controller that as I start to do some logical problem solving things in my brain, like counting backwards from a hundred and lots of seven and I have to go, Oh, how much is that 193 and so on. Speaker 2: (23:04) And I have to actually think about it. And that makes me calm down again and gives me a chance to get on top of that adrenaline and cortisol that's come out and makes me want to have a scratch. Um, cause that's not good. And what you're doing when you get into this triggered state also in, in the anger response is you, uh, releasing the cortisol, which is, which is pumping out your blood sugars. So remember those begin angry and you're going to weight problems. You making things worse. You're going to put on more weight because you've increased your cortisol, you're going to leave the four have, have more, a whole warfare. Okay. So there's one, there's a really good reason not to get angry and to stay cool and calm. And this is one of the reasons why doing yoga and [inaudible] and all of those debriefing and all that actually helps you lose weight, which is not the topic of today's conversation, but it does say it because it's actually lowering the cortisol, the stress levels in the body. Speaker 2: (24:01) Interesting, isn't it? How we, uh, such complex characters and if we understand more about our physiology and our biology and how things actually interplay, then they can really, really help us in overcoming all these challenges that we're facing. So that's makes us very, guys, I hope this has been helpful to you or please decide that the, or if you want to reach out to me, please do. I'm, you know, this is what I, I'm begging to the mental game. I'm big into the mindset and mental toughness and leadership in, you know, um, some of the lessons that I've learned along in my now quite long nights, um, and sharing those insights with you. Not from a place of I know better because God knows I still have a hell of a lot of things to learn. But from applied, so via I've, I've experienced a few things, bring around the block a few times and wanting to share some of these insights. Speaker 2: (24:53) I do that also on my podcast, which is called pushing the limits. I would love you to go and subscribe to pushing the limits because I have some of the greatest minds. I don't know how I get some of these amazing people on the air, but I do, if you look back over the episodes that I've managed to record in the last four years, you've got Nobel prize winning scientists. You've got, you know, some of the top scientists actually in the world, some of the top doctors in the world, some of the top athletes in the world. And I'm not exaggerating, there's been some absolute legends on my show. Say, you know, I be a good way to spend a few of those nails we stuck at home. Um, uh, listening to the podcast is called pushing the limits. You can find it on iTunes, on Lipson, on Stitcher, or via my website, at least at [inaudible] dot com and while you're the gone grab one of my books, one of my friends, uh, especially running this right now is a super book for you to be reading, to strengthen your mind. And, um, really thank you for your time today. And we'll see you again soon. Speaker 1: (25:49) that's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

Everyday runners Krista and Guy share their ultramarathon experiences int his candid interview with Lisa.    This lovely couple from Vermont in the USA are the voices behind "Blue Collars Runners" a site and blog dedicated to sharing the stories of everyday people doing crazy ultramarathons.   Their mission is to entertain and inspire you by sharing the stories of everyday runners. People from all walks of life, with different backgrounds, challenges, abilities and dreams. Krista and Guy are so honored to tell these stories, of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, as they shine a light on the human spirit.    You may even find yourself wondering what you are truly capable of.    You can read their wonderful inspiring stories at: www.bluecollarruners.com  and in the prestigious "Ultrarunning" Magazine.   Guy and Krista Alderdice live in the hills of Vermont with their two teenage sons, Justin and Jase.    Guy found his passion for running later in life, running his first marathon at age 35. Krista, having run in high school, reconnected to running after a serious horse accident.  Through their love of running, they've made many connections with folks just like them. Blue Collar Runners is a place to rejoice in the everyday runners. Whether you love to run on dirt, pavement, treadmill, beaches or mountains. If you are a streak runner, mile runner, 100 mile runner or somewhere in between.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option. Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:11) Hi everyone. Welcome back this week. I hope you are doing all fine in your bubbles, wherever you are in the world and staying safe this week. I have a very interesting interview with a couple of very experienced ultra marathon runners guy and Krista odor dice from Vermont in the USA and they are going to share a few of their stories and they're also writers and founders of the website, bluecollarruners.com where they share everyday running stories with, with the audience. Now they also write for outdoor running magazine and I've done the Vermont 100 a famous race in the United States. Oh, I think seven, eight, nine times. And it's a really, really interesting interview about what makes them tick and about why ultra marathoning isn't just for the super athletes of the world, but for everyday people. And I hope you enjoy the show. Before I hand you over to Krista and guy, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com that's relentlessbook.lisatamati.com to grab your copy. It's available right around the world. It's available in paperback, on audio and Kindle and Amazon. You name it. It's a net version. So check that out. I hope you enjoy the book. If you do get it. And I would love a review if you've read it already. So without further ado, over to Krista & Guy Alderdice. Speaker 2: (01:44) Well, hi everyone. Lisa here pushing the limits. Thank you once again for joining me on the show today. I've got a little treat for you. I've got some lovely, lovely, amazing runners with me all the way from USA. I've got Krista & Guy Alderdice. How are you guys doing? You guys are sitting in Vermont. Many Ultra runners will know about the Vermont 100, which is a really worldwide famous, you know, ultra Mo ultra marathon in the States. And you guys walk past your doorstep, guys, right? Yeah, we're a mile 80, 87 passes right by our driveway. Oh, you were right in the corner, right where it gets tough. It gets real tough. Speaker 2: (02:32) Says it today. You guys at the listing, I wanted to introduce you to Krista & Guy. These dear friends of my dear friend Ben from Yulara who's really our key man in our company at running hot coaching and he is in Connecticut and he's introduced me to these lovely people. So they're going to share a little bit these stories today around ultra marathon running and Krista & Guy, I have a website which has blue collar runners. So just www.bluecollarruners.com isn't it goes which is telling the stories from everyday runners. Is that right? Yeah, we're just spotlighting the everyday runner who just kind of inspires us people all over the U S we've spotlighted. So yeah, says entered pretty cold. So I want to dive into the background and we've been talking before we started recording and I, and I'm getting a bit of background and we're gonna have to repeat a lot of it guys. Speaker 2: (03:33) So you two are married, you've been together since your like high school sweethearts, is that right? Yes. Yeah, we had, we had our first date in 1991. Wow. And you've got two young boys, 15 and 17 years old. And you were finding it to a printer guy and what do you do Christopher, for a day to day job? Where are you at home or are you working? Yeah, I work for him. So kind of do the business side of it, the admin side, and then I'm helping with the writing. Oh, the hard stuff by the chef. Well, the real stuff is that it seems to be like in my household, I do all the, the, the public facing stuff and then behind me, Neil, Ben and my husband has the trying to pick up all the basics and actually do the hard yards. So so you guys are ultra marathon runners and you've been doing this now for a decade now and you super talented runners or how did you get him? Speaker 2: (04:42) Well, actually Krista was much more accomplished. I mean, she was a, she was a great cross country runner back in high school and, and did real well. I on the other hand, was, was not a gifted runner by any means. I played, played basketball and did very short distances in my twenties and into my mid thirties didn't run. We're more than a couple of miles over 15 years. So yeah, no, not a gifted, no gifted background for us at all. But of course if you were, you had to go to spades. I crossed it. So you had see back in high school? Probably. that's, that's since gone away and now it's run long. Yeah. I was more of an endurance rider. So I did the a hundred mile and 50 mile races on horseback. Wow. And I would see all these crazy ultra runners at the Vermont 100 when I was riding it back in the early two thousands. Speaker 2: (05:39) Just wondering what the heck are they doing? Like is this run simultaneously that the horse race and the the running race? Yes. It's like one of the only ones left that you are on the same course at the same time with ours in the runners. So it's pretty fascinating. Yeah, it's neat. Yeah. Huge background as an endurance horse rider. But what sort of changed that for you? I know you, you know, you had an event. Yeah. And 2015 I was badly kicked by a friend's horse, so it was a pretty bad shatter of my elbow shattered in about 10 places. So I had three surgeries and about a year. And I just needed to take a break from that side of my life and I was wondering, you know, what, what am I going to do? Like I need that kind of physical push. And luckily guy was in the midst of, you know, doing his ultra stuff, I had kind of dabbled a little bit. I had done a couple of 50 K's just more socially. Honestly just to kind of be in the community, but it was much happier on horseback. But once that was kind of shifted, then running really became kind of my, I love how you say, I just set up a couple of things. Speaker 2: (07:03) They were not fast. I was just kind of getting around with friends. And as far as you know, our community, we have the Vermont 50 and the Vermont 100, like right in our backyard. So it was kind of a, what do you always call them? Speaker 3: (07:18) Yeah, our, our town. We've also just said that this town is kind of an outlier because we're a switch, only about a thousand people in this town and, but there's the per capita ultra runners are pretty crazy because it's, you know, it's right in our backyard. All these big, big events, Speaker 2: (07:32) Easy entry. It's kind of easy to get sucked in. Yeah. You sort of saw it happening in going past your doorstep literally everyday. So you sort of sucked into that world. And it's a beautiful part of America, isn't it? It's a beautiful place. It's gorgeous. It's quiet. It's a beautiful place to raise kids. And I think in, in our oldest son Justin's class, I would say out of the 20 parents, didn't we figure if Dean had done like the Vermont 50? I mean it's pretty, pretty fascinating. Like I think everybody is outdoors a lot. It's Speaker 3: (08:11) Yeah, I mean you can, you can literally walk out, you know, you walk out of your back door and you're on dirt roads, trails. The amount of Scott is, is a mile two miles away. So there's a playground right outside of our door that we, you know, so we're really lucky. Speaker 2: (08:24) You're very lucky. You were definitely very lucky. So I mean that's quite interesting. When you say like so many of the parents that you could saw with a ultra marathon runners, do you think, cause a lot of people think that ultra marathon running is only for the elite and only for the super gifted and the super tough. What do you, what do you say to that? What do you think about that? Speaker 3: (08:47) Oh yeah. We, we know from experience that nothing could be further from the truth. Then the first year I ran my first 100 I ran it with two friends, lived in town, Speaker 2: (08:56) A guy named Fred and a guy named Jim and myself. The three of us were, I mean, we had no special skills. We had, we weren't great planners and we all went out and tackle this a hundred mile run. You know, despite people telling us we were crazy and family members, you know, no one can be, most people never heard of it. You know, this wasn't even an event. So, but over the next few years, the three of us went out. We all, at one point, we all got to finish all of us. And so, and we just, it was just what I learned is, I mean, 90% of this I think is mental, you know, just that mental toughness. Yeah. And along the way isn't it? Yeah. so I know you said back in 2011 when you guys sort of started or you know, you got underway and that you did have no idea. Speaker 2: (09:48) You would just, like you said, you turned up on the format socks and, and we had, we, our gear was, was I ran, I was running in just like 86 basic road shoes. I had a Socks from Walmart. I had no special foods. I mean I hadn't done any research and, but we just went out there and you know, my aid station to aid station and we just, what we've found over the years is we just, it really became about being outside and just, you know, seeing how far you could, you know, how far you can push yourself. And, and honestly, I think we, all of us pushed each other, you know, and it was just that social part of it was a big thing. I think I was starting to wind down and then Krista, you know, got into it and then I kind of rejuvenated me because some of my friends were moving on and doing other things. And so when Krista came in 2015 and then we kind of just, you know, if it started doing more, I know it is the famous just one more. That's right. That's right. So yeah, there's a lot of things always sound good on paper. You know, when you come up with these ideas on runs with friends and you're like, what did I agree to? And you know, I can do that. I definitely know that problem when you're reading something on a website. Speaker 2: (11:20) I've had a few, I've had a few times where I opened my email and I've been, and I get an email saying, you know, thanks for signing up for this race. And I'm like, I didn't, I have no idea. Come to find out. Krista's signed us up for a race and I guess now I just get used to it. That's right. I hacked into his ultra sign up to how many things that you do? Oh, you running together? You know, hadn't you find it as a couple? Like I met with my husband, I can't, we did do runs together, but we don't run much anymore together because we're a different paces now. He's got better. I've also slowed down and got up, gotten older and been doing it for too long in the tooth, I think. And he w w we, we end up arguing. Speaker 2: (12:16) How do you guys find that as a couple? I think, I think for us it's like really therapeutic. Like we figured a lot of things out in the runs, like whether it's, you know, things we talk about, about the kids, like any issues they're having or I don't know, I don't really know how to explain it, but it's a time that we can just be really free of anything. So like it just, everything comes out. Mmm. And, and literally like, like I said before, before the podcast, like we do everything together. So like I said, if anyone sees one, it's usually the other. And he's way faster than me. Yeah. There's, if we're doing any sort of speed work, like he'll just go ahead and then come back or any sort of like speed work, which we're not the greatest staff. He'll just kind of go, go a little bit ahead and I'll just, it gives me a push to try to keep up with them. Speaker 2: (13:10) As far as, yeah. And then I think, and then when in terms of like race day, we're kind of both on the same page, is that we're, we're not really that worried about, you know, how great our time is. We're, we're, we're definitely finishers. You know, first we wanna we want to finish and, and know, we know we're never gonna be elite, you know, we're never going to be in that cream of the crop. I mean, some of the times these, these are the athletes put up or just they blow my mind. Unbelievable. So yeah, we're pretty happy being just kind of, you know, we just chug along and, you know, crank the miles out. So yeah. So that, so usually we just, you know, we run one of the hundred miles we ran the whole thing together. That was a special start and finish the whole thing together. Pretty magical. That was 2000. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all have to be on the same page as far as, you know, Asha or, yeah, yeah, yeah. Feeling good when well occasionally, you know, on a, on a, on a long run, in, in a, in a event, if one of us is feeling junky, the other one would say just go ahead. And, you know, cause I'm usually when you're feeling, you know, you feel junky, you want to be alone anyways. Yeah. You're a grumpy, horrible person. Speaker 2: (14:29) I'm nauseous and I hear like a little rapper opening on like, Oh, I can't eat, eat. So just go ahead. Don't eat around me. But how many of the promote 100 if you've got a son, a hundred miler. So I've done three and I've done eight on horseback. So three on foot. Speaker 3: (14:53) Yeah. And I, and I'm the CEO and this, let's see, I've, I ran in I ran nine of them and I've finished seven at a nine. Wow, that's amazing. And we always tell people it's such a family thing for us because yeah, since 2001, I think we've been to every single year except for, well, 2002, she had our our son, Justin Christie given birth a couple of weeks before. So we missed that year. Other than that, other than she was a slacker, slacker that year. But yeah, we've been, that we've been to and seen since our kids were babies. They've been to every single, because when they were babies, she was riding, I was crewing and so I'd be changing diapers and you know, strollers at aid stations and then now our kids and that's come full circle where the kids are crewing us. And now last year our oldest son ran the last like 13 or 14 miles in with Krista. Yeah. So we've seen it, you know, from little infants to now, you know, they're taller, taller than us. Speaker 2: (15:59) So the future is bright. We want, we want to see some more. So now I want to talk to you, a rotting guy in the blue, calmer that we call a Rana's website and the stories that you tell and you write for ultra running magazine, which is a very prestigious ultra marathon running naked scene. What sort of stories do you tell guys? What, what's sort of you know, the background into that? Speaker 3: (16:30) Yeah. So, so we always were fascinated. I mean, my whole life I've always been fascinated me reading memoirs and curious about people's stories. So this was kind of a natural thing for us. We've met a lot of nice people in town through the sport and in, in, in races. So we just said what we were out for a run about a year and a half ago and we just had this idea, you know, we've always called ourselves blue collar runners cause we're always just kinda like, did we always felt like we were just, you know, scraping by and getting through it. So yeah, he just started. We just say, well, and what we've found is with law as we've, we said, well, every once a month we just interview, we interview someone. And then we, we write their story and ultra running magazine and their online column. Well, we just found that people that are doing these crazy, you know, feats and challenges generally, there's a really good story. You know, why they're doing it. And we've, we've talked to people that have been through addiction of I tried to commit suicide too. Health issues to family issues to, and you realize some of the people that we knew in town pretty well once we interviewed and we found out things we never knew. And so we just, we bunked you've just met really cool people and now it's, we have this neat platform to tell their story, you know, tell it does again, average runners, Speaker 2: (17:50) You know, have jobs and have families or, and, and running is kind of a side thing. It's not the way they make their living, but they're doing just incredible things. And then any, they all have really big hearts like theirs. You know what I mean? There, there's just this neat push to do something big. Mmm. But they're just, yeah. I mean, this is, this is a couple of themes running through those stories by the sounds of it. And this is my experience too in dealing with lots of, you know, ultra runner, crazy people and myself as well. I know that, you know, running, saved my life. Literally. I, you know, I'm going through some terrible things and, and again, and again that's picked me up and given me my life back and my confidence back and my self esteem and channeled my Oh, I've got a bit of an addictive personality and if I don't do, if it didn't do running or working, I think stupid. So I it is a way of channeling my energies and so on. And I think a lot of people can, can understand that who are ultra marathon miners said it and it helps you deal with issues and helps you rebuild your life. And, and these are sort of byproducts that, that people outside of the running or the ultra running community especially, but even the running community don't, don't see as a benefit of running, but it's actually a mental health based mental health thing I've ever done. Speaker 2: (19:23) Yeah. And that seems to be a same that that does run, you know, you do get some deep stories when you're interact with people and some people have been through some terrible things and running his saved them and help them out of the muck, you know? Yeah, a lot of them weren't runners per se, you know, they didn't grow up, you know, running cross country or they didn't grow up. Having someone that they ran with it, it's how running kind of came into their life at that perfect time and they really needed to lean on it. So you know, and I know for me personally, it came back, you know, after I got injured and I, I did, I leaned on it big time and outside and to, you know, feel your heart pounding and feel that wind in your hair. Speaker 2: (20:10) And you know, it doesn't matter how far you go or how long you go or how fast you go, but it's just there and I feel lucky for that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like they've primal, there's a primal instinct that is missing in our everyday lives, mostly now in our modern day world. And it answers a lot of those biological and instinctive and ancestral sort of needs for us. So that need to push our bodies to, to survive and the in the outdoors and to be able to overcome and to actually, you know, like expel all this energy that we have which is sometimes a negative and or an anger or a grief or, you know, I I often come back from long runs, especially where you've given your role or rices and you just, you, you, you, it's so fantastic. The pain that you go through physically sometimes is, is it's a mean tool release part of the draw card and it's not what like I don't think you and I would sit here and say we like pain cause a lot of people, you're a masochist or something. Speaker 2: (21:31) Not at all. I don't like, I do see the benefits on pushing through pain or through suffering or had moments in a, in an event or training because it does teach you so, so much about who the heck you are. And that's something that my listeners hear me preach a lot, but I think that is, that is a very true thing. And he'd agree with it. Yeah. More. And when we always talk about it, we'll be doing something, whether it's work related or life w we, we always say we lean back on those ultra lessons that we learn because we're just, you just some of the things you're doing out there, you does, it converts over to, to real life situations and mental toughness kind of, you know, pushing through hard times. Yeah. And then the metaphors are there all over the place, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. Speaker 2: (22:25) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, people hit me to have my story with mom and that's definitely like a Humvee, 100% of all of that, that, that resilience, that consistent, that real manelessness come from being an athlete and doing this sort of stuff. And so, so many benefits of people. And that's why, you know, I love encouraging people to get into running or any sport. But running is a, is a, is it, I think it's one that, again, going back to our ancestral ways, this is how we used to communicate this and how we used to get from one village to the next, the one, you know, we didn't have cars and everything else and, and it's the most instinctive, natural form of movement that we don't. And even in thing, you know, walking, running, you know, whatever in doing ultra-marathons there's a heck of a lot of walking isn't there? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. Speaker 2: (23:21) Race. The race is a loosely defined term, you know, death shuffle, shuffle. So you know, I love to share some of your stories like I've asked you guys, you know, hopefully we can share some of your stories within the hour, you know, running hot coaching out online club and also on our websites and stuff. And you know, what I love about this is a being connected through our frame vendors that we've disconnecting. You know, the USA with new Zealanders, with Australians who listen to this podcast. It's mostly my audience, New Zealand and Australia. We have got other people in other places as well, but at say international illness, you know, but we all have the shared love of, of running and ultra marathon running and Beecher and nature and you know, for one side of the road to the other with these stories. And I think that that's, that's pretty damn cool. Speaker 2: (24:16) I just love that. You know, I think it's exciting. I think that's really neat. Yeah. It makes us feel more together and it's not in this crosses right now. We need to feel together. You know, like you guys are facing some really, really tough times in America. I think way worse than what we are experiencing. And if we can, you know, again, in this Karina time, we need to pull together, we need to focus, we need the strengths that are run as heavy, you know, push through these tough times and not give up. Tom's, he gotta to get tough for a lot of people. And you being a financial advisor guy would probably know, you know, lots of horror stories coming your way. And, and being able to help people through this sort of a crisis, I think you know, in having good stories always does that. Speaker 2: (25:07) So, you know, I just wanted to say thanks for coming on today and for sharing your, your stories and for connecting with us down at the other end of the ears. And I hope one day that I'm actually going to be able to come and poverty won't run for malts anymore. I'm retired now, but I might come and know what you guys do. One that would be so cold. You never know. What would be your, like if you had a couple of messages for people listening out there who have never run in their lives and think that this is only for the super Tufts super cold, super amazing athletes, they want me to say to that? Yeah, I think I would say aye. I think we, I think as, as humans we just, we always are putting limits on what we can do. Speaker 2: (26:00) And we're always kind of, you know, it's almost like I hear so many people say, well, I have bad knees or I can't, I just can't do it. Right. There's, you know, and Jen, obviously some people probably can't do it, you know, not everyone can. And we're lucky to have you know, I've, I've run the show I'm with, with, with farmers and carpenters and Marines and every, every segment of life out there. I've seen people doing these things and I mean age. Yeah. I mean just people in their, in their seventies doing, doing a hundred miles. So we see the whole spectrum. I think the biggest thing is, you know, just get out there and do it. Just start with something, you know, even if it's a couple of him and if it's walk a half mile, walk a mile and just get out there. And if it's something, I think you'd be amazed what you can, what you can do. And then, and again, we're, we're here to tell you we are, I'm Todd, we are his averages. Again, there's nothing special about Austin. Speaker 2: (26:59) I mean you can, you can do a lot more than you than you think is possible. I think that's my, and I think to have the courage to try and then, and not worry about failing and running for me, like a little tidbit is I don't care if you, if you run a hundred miles a week or one mile a week, that first mile is the hardest every, every day, every night. So I think sometimes he will get to that mile and they're like, it's just too hard. But if you know that it's hard for everybody, no matter how often you run or how long you run. I mean, I think that's my biggest take is have her smile. But after you get past that first mile, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. But that first 20 minutes of everybody's run and was even sitting, but it's for some people, right? Speaker 2: (27:46) For me can be worst part. And most people give up and before that, like, you know, the runners and they think that the whole time is going to be like that. And you're like, she's just getting to the good stuff. Guys. You're just warming up. Cause man, when you get to that warm up part, everything was clear on the fog goes away. Yeah. And that's why the warmups bloody important people listen for you even by writing. And then I'm preaching to myself here because I'm still, I know that I should be warming up every time and I have a much better one when I do warm up properly, we all have a tendency, I've got, I've got an hour, half an hour or an hour, I've got to go straight out the door and I'm fixing my miles and I've got to see it on Strava, you know, warm up doesn't count, so I'm not doing it. And that's dumb. That's a good way to look guys. I really appreciate you coming on today and I want to hear more. I want to she's some of the stories that you've already written and I'd love to do some more connections, you know, have some more discussions with you and the heavier now running hot sharing in being involved with us. Cause I love what you're doing and I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. We love what you're doing. That's awesome. Speaker 1: (29:19) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over. Visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

After being hospitalised three times with stress related heart problems and burnout, which included flat-lining in the emergency room, Craig Johns realised that he needed to be more than a leader of high performance and become a high performing leader.   He has now transferred those strategies into working with CEO's, senior executives, coaches and leaders from some of the world's leading companies including Nestle, P&G, Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, AIG, Boyden and Nike. Born in New Zealand, Craig has 25 successful years of experience leading, managing, coaching and providing sport science around the globe.   As an elite athlete he competed at the Hawaii Ironman, four World Triathlon Championships and continues to play competitive golf. A hip replacement and second pacemaker, at the age of 30, meant a full-time shift to focusing on being a high performance leader, CEO and National Head Coach.  He has coached and managed 3x Olympians, 10x World Championship athletes, 21x national champions and a 3x Ironman Japan Champion. He has worked with world leaders such as the Dalai Lama, Mind and Life Institute, WTA Tennis, IRONMAN Triathlon, United World College and over 100 Olympians and World Champions. Living in 5 countries. In this interview Lisa and Craig do a deep dive into avoiding burnout and managing your perfromance over the long haul. About top leadership and how to manage your health and mental wellbeing in order to be the best you can be.   You can find out more about Craig at www.nrg2perform.com and about Craigs speaking services at www.craigjohnsspeaker.com    We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at https://www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option. Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:11) Hi everyone and welcome to pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic episode with the amazing Craig Johns now Craig Johns is originally from my hometown from Taranaki, but living now in Canberra, in Australia. Now. Craig is the CEO and founder of energy to perform. He's a CEO himself. Uh, he has a background in 25 years global experience working in the sport health, mind, education and hospitality industries and he loves to help him become high performing leaders. He's also coached at the elite level Olympians, triathletes, world champion athletes, um, across a number of areas. And he is really at the top of his game as far as, uh, human performance. And I was really privileged to be on his show last weekend. He's agreed to become, come onto my show this week. So you're in for a really interesting session. If you want to know about being a high performance leader. Speaker 2: (01:07) If you want to know about high performance and sport, then this is the man you need to listen to. Um, just before I hand over to Craig now, just want to remind you my book relentless is now available and still seeing now copies. So if you hop over to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com you can order there and you can order audio books, eBooks, Kindle, Amazon, you name it, all the options are there for you to see, uh, to, to purchase that book. Um, I had the privilege of having a wonderful online book launch just a couple of nights ago and we're going to be doing, uh, a weekly one of these. So if you want to join me on one of those sessions or live session with me talking about the book, of course my mum will also be there. Um, then please reach out to me and I'd love to let you know when the next one is happening. Um, you can reach out to me at Lisa, at lisatamati.com and if you enjoy the show, please don't forget to rate and review this podcast. It really, really helps us get more exposure and we have some brilliant people sharing their incredible knowledge. Right. Without further ado, over to Craig Johns . Speaker 2: (02:19) Well, how everyone Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you with me again. I hope you guys are all staying safe out there as best as you can in this crazy time. Yeah, I'm sitting today with the lovely Craig John's from Canberra and Craig is the CEO and founder of energy, uh, the energy to perform. So welcome to the show, Craig. Thanks for coming on board. No, Lisa, it's great to be on your show after we had a great interview the other day. Yeah, it was fantastic. So I had the privilege of being on Craig show as well. Um, active CEO, if anyone wants to go and check that out. Active CEO. Now, Craig, can you give us a little bit of background about your life and your story and what you do these Speaker 3: (03:00) days? Yeah, so I grew up in Taranaki as well. So from the same region, grew up on a farm, you know, a families were pretty simple. Yeah. And dad, you know, worked on a farm since he was 14 years old. He, it went through kind of the school of hard knocks and it was around our pretty rough crowd. And the teachers would say to him, look, you know, you're not going to make it in life. And when he was 14, him and his mate, they like to mess and like pee and light eating their lunch. And so they went to the principal and say, look, you know, we're wasting your time, us being here and you're wasting our time. So how about we build the furniture for your school? And so they're great to it. So they get access to the woodwork room and middleweight room and started building furniture. Speaker 3: (03:47) And then at the age of 14 he lifts school, went farming and retaught at 45. So I think the, uh, sort of prove them wrong in that sense. I'm a mum also came from a farming and hospitality background, her banana under a famous pub and pop Tia and you know, they, it's a lot of time spent on the farm and I think that grounding from both of them, very simple. I appreciate the small things. You work really hard and then the benefits will come and uh, from uh, an also from a sporting side. So I had a, had a fortunate too, both sides of the family have coaches, so dad's side where all around field hockey and my mom's side were all around cricket. So I had this great grounding from a sport point of view and also from coaching and leading people, which was just fantastic. Speaker 3: (04:42) I moved to Oakland to study, no sports science at university. I went on to do things around masters and biomechanics before hitting overseas. Uh, so my work in Auckland during that time was around sports science with some of the Olympic teams, some of the professional sports and was always coaching from the age of 15. So I love coaching swimming. So fly saving and triathlon in was working with some pretty amazing athletes during that time when I was 24 I got this call too. We've got a swimming coach opportunity for you in Taiwan. And that's kind, kinda like, well, I'm living at middle wide. I've got a beautiful view over the middle wide beach in Oakland and I've got these amazing opportunities. But I just thought, you know what, hi, I'm 24 years old, is this incredible world out there. I know nothing about Taiwan. All I think of as these, this big tall buildings. And my friend was like, no, it's really cool. There's like massive mountains. There's beautiful beaches. Amazing people. And so I thought, you know why not? So I packed up my bags at 24 and that started my worldwide adventure and have now lived in five places and wow. Currently based in Canberra. And you've done a of work in Speaker 2: (05:58) the triathalon space, is that correct? So tell us a little bit about some of the sort of work you've been involved with there. Speaker 3: (06:05) Okay. Yeah. So I've been a triathlon since I was nine years old, was my first triathlon. Wow. And so it was in my blood from quite an early space, and I naturally transitioned into triathlon where overseas I was coaching the Taiwan national team and went through to work at one of the Oh sort of most famous and beautiful splices and [inaudible] Peru kit called Tonya Perro, which is the only vice where they have, or mind how education, hospitality as an integrative approach. And so we're working with a lot of the world's top triathletes there. And then the last five and a half years I've been in Australia as a CEO of, the sport of triathlon in Canberra, and then working with the national team. So quite a, quite a big involvement. And it's just a beautiful sport with a great community. Speaker 2: (06:55) Yup. Okay. So what have you learned as a, as a person from being an athlete that you've taken over into your corporate world, if you like, into your business and you know what you're doing now? Speaker 3: (07:07) I think when you're very young and you're in sport, you learn some great basics for Speaker 2: (07:11) Mmm. Speaker 3: (07:12) Succeeding in life. So you have time management, discipline, hard work, um, overcoming adversity. You know, resilience. If we look at what's happening right now in the world around COVID-19 and coronavirus, Speaker 3: (07:25) it really sets you up to handle those situations well. You've experienced loss before, you've experienced hurt and pain before. You've experienced the unknown and I'm overwhelmed many times and you've always made a way out of it. Yeah. You just don't give up. You, yeah, it could be out on a, I know I bike ride and you're stuck three hours from home and you've run out of energy and battling a IDK in our headwind in it's five degrees in. You just don't want to go on any longer, but you stop playing mind games. You think positive thoughts and Speaker 3: (08:02) Nixon it and you just go from lampposts or lamppost or town to town. And then next minute you're like, Oh, I'm ready 20 minutes from home and you get home and it kind of feels a bit tiring and then you kind of wake up the next day and go, huh, what's next? Where's the big Nick's big talent? So I think those aspects are really good. And a sport like triathlon you, you wouldn't less than you loose. So you know, in a team sport you've got a 50% chance of winning every single time. And I was fortunate to be in a field hockey team where we never lost the game. The Stratford hockey team in the Taranaki league, they went something like 270 games straight without losing a game. So it's a record in New Zealand for any sport. And it was a phenomenal time to be part of that because I learned how to win end this awesome, great listens winning all the time. Speaker 3: (08:56) However, in triathlon there's also potentially a bit of side where you are learning so much because it is so difficult to win when you might have, you know, a couple of thousand people. On a start line or even if it's 50 on the start line, your chances of winning are not that high. No, you have to [inaudible] learn to deal with winning isn't everything, but what is the winning? So it may not be first across the line, but it might be okay, I've improved my swim or I was able to stay with that pack longer or I felt better on the run. So there's always ways that you can be winning, but it's might not just be that gold medal around your neck. Speaker 2: (09:36) Then Neva comes instantly. Th th that actually standing at the top of the podium as always a progression of years to get there. And many, many Speaker 3: (09:43) in the, in the, in the individual sports, Speaker 2: (09:45) um, you know, and lots of semifinalists and problems along the way and overcoming it. And then when you get to the top, you don't stay there either. So it's learning to manage that whole system and keep going. Um, so the biggest, listen, they would be, yeah, definitely. Keep, keep working towards your goals. Would that be right? Speaker 3: (10:03) Yeah, just small steps and appreciate the small things. I think in times like these where you need to have a bit of gratitude for yourself. Yes, you need a lot of gratitude for other people and acknowledge and sank and be kind to them. But a lot of people forget to do that with themselves. Worst predict. So it is so important to be, you know, looking everyday what is something I did really well today, well done. Yeah, that's great. Boy I'm off the couch this morning and I'm out running and no one else's. And, and there are lots of little things that you can just look after yourself a lot more effectively and you can do that in day to day life. And I think people, as much as this is going to be a very challenging time, I think people have the opportunity to learn, to appreciate the small things in life and be around their families and yeah, maybe Potter in the garden or whatever it may be and realize how important that is to success in life over a long period of time. Speaker 2: (11:01) Yeah. In taking the long view on this one now, Craig, and now you have a bit of a story yourself, um, a story of, of going home, you know, working so hard and burning out and um, coming into a bit of a drastic situation. Can you share that sort of background story, because you know, these are the stories that really teach us. Speaker 3: (11:20) Yeah, they are. I think from a very young age, I've always, you know, push the limits. For me it was, I'm trying to find that new space, um, where can I take my body? How much can it handle? And you know, I, it wasn't the most talented person out there, but I had, damn, I had some grit and hard work if they can be. And I think that comes from there from my mother. Yeah. I think we both the same there. And you know, a lot of people go, Whoa, you know, you did really well, you succeed into world champs. And I said, yeah, there was a lot of hard work in that. And you know, there are a lot more talented people, but I managed to get ahead of quite a few of them just because I was more determined and dominant approach to say, you know what, I'm going to prove people wrong. Speaker 3: (12:02) I'm going to prove science or medicine wrong and I want to see if I can get there. I love it. So I triggered hot problems and probably stress and burn out to a certain extent, not always burnout, but pushing that limit three key times in my life. So the first one was, who knows, uh, 15 and I'd come off a week long swim camp at Christmas time. I had done some things I've never done before. I had people stopping in the lines watching me do a set and which is absolutely flying and this felt amazing. And the next day was new year's day. I got out of bed at six o'clock in the morning when to go to the bathroom and find and went out for very long time. Um, my dad, who had just had a hip replacement was on crutches and sort of come along and tap me. Speaker 3: (12:54) And he thought I was, could have been dead because he, he couldn't been over at time and he said my eyes were in a state that he'd never seen before. And being knocked out for over five minutes is, um, yeah, fairly scary for a lot of people. Hmm. You know, that opportunity. I spent some time in intensive care, uh, and, and word was spreading around the community that I'd had heart attacks and all sorts of things that happened to me. Um, and it took a little while for, um, the cardiologist to try and make sense of what was going on at that time. And they initially, he said, look, you know, you have to give up sport. That's it. Your resting heart rate is too low. Um, it's, it's still 32 right now and I get down to 24 at night. My next spot right is still over 210. Wow. And I've always had an extremely low blood pressure of 90, over 60. Yeah. So all those things with their, and if I stressed too much, there was a recipe for disaster in a way. Speaker 3: (13:58) so they, but they couldn't find an actual reason to why I was having these heart problems at that time. And while I was really struggling. And so in the end, they just say, look, you can go back to sport, but you need to monitor and listen to yourselves. And I made two New Zealand teams within a year, um, and, and obviously had a very successful career after that. The second time I did it was I was working in Taiwan. I was qualified for world half iron man champ. So I was pushing the limit about six weeks out from the event. We had a big period of work where I'll be working around 60 hours a week plus those training 30 hours a week. Um, and just, I mean I was always some to try and find where is that balance on the high performance edge and I just pushed it too far. Speaker 3: (14:46) And so I had the same thing happen there, not to the, I wasn't feinting, uh, so much because I had a pacemaker and by then it was stopping me from doing that. Ah, so that was the second time. And then the third time I in Thailand, I was working, uh, 70 to 80 hours a week. Loved every single minute of what I was doing. I was worth 302 days straight. Yup. And woke up and did the big find to gain and um, you know, obviously this time I'm married and my wife's freaking out. She, I had never been in a hospital apart from being born pretty much. And you know, this took a big toll on her and I spent quite a bit of time in hospital again and Thailand and was during that time I realized that wasn't right about me anymore. And it was more too, you know what? Speaker 3: (15:37) Hey look, yeah, my heart's struggling a bit here and I'm not feeling well, but you know what, I'll, I've got the resilience, I'll bounce back from it. Right. You do it all the time and training, you know, you work hard, you smash yourself to bits it and you'd get a better recovery and your bounce back and away you go again pretty quick. But in this instance there was a lot more to it and I could see the effects on the staff. You know, we had 500 stops, so you could see how that affected them and especially my wife. And at that point I was like, you know what, I need to change. I'm, I put on 14kgs, I'd stopped exercising. Aye wasn't eating well even though I was at the healthiest place in the world. Mmm. And I was only getting four to five hours sleep a night. Speaker 3: (16:17) So I wasn't allowing my body to, to recover. Right. So I wasn't giving it a chance whatsoever. And what was really, and, and, and obviously at that time I decided the term breaking the CEO came up for me at that time, breaking the CEO code and [inaudible] that concept is now sort of really developed out in working with CEO's and executives around that and also building out programs for corporates. Exits are as well. So that's where that came from. But one of the real interesting things is when you're in athletes, you base everything. Everything's based around recovery. Yes. You've got the hard work. It's based around recovery because that's when the gains happen. That's when the high performance gains actually occur. And you have really strong trees. So when you push the limit in training or at a rice, your body tells you, you know, your times aren't as good. Speaker 3: (17:15) Your heart rate might be up, your sleep patterns go off. Um, appetite can change. And so there's a lot of really strong triggers that you're aware of. And generally you're recording a lot of data, so you, or you've got a coach that can see things as well when you're in the working world, [inaudible] have that. It's not a physical fatigue unless you're in certain [inaudible] industries. Yeah. So it's a real psychological fatigue. And unless there's a catastrophic event, yeah. Don't realize what's happening. So, excuse me to interrupt. But when you're an athlete, you only value breaking yourself physically. Speaker 2: (17:50) So you think any mental stress, it's just like, Oh, you know, grit. You haven't run 200 cases today. You know, like it's not that bad. You underestimate how much that they can put on the actual your system when your brain is stressed and when you're, when you're pushing the limits. Mean to me it takes a lot of energy. I mean, 20% of our energy goes just into our brain. 20% of our calories, for example. Yeah. Which is, you know, and part of it. So what's happening when you're in psychological fatigue or in your work spaces, the change in fatigue and energy levels is so gradual and our bodies so clever at adapting, you don't understand what's going on, you don't feel it. And it keeps dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping until it's too late. You don't realize it. And generally it's either you take a couple of days off or you go on a planned holiday and you get sick quite often. Speaker 2: (18:45) Well, you get to a point where I did where I had just worked at 302 days straight, full on 100% the whole time there was, it was go, go, you know, 24 seven never stopped thinking and the body does soon. You know what, okay, I'm going to have to put the brakes on here. I'm going to put the handbrake on it and we're going to hit real hard and you're probably going to hit a lamppost at the same time. And yeah, that's what happened. [inaudible] it a big lesson. The body is a very clever thing when it, you know, even in the, in the athletic world like, um, when you're running specific boat, you know, when I ran through New Zealand, my body was like shattering my body down in your mind is so strong that you pushed through the pain and you carry on and then my body actually pick up, carry on till the end of it run. Speaker 2: (19:32) But I paid the price for the next, but he is, well actually I'm still lost if I'm honest. I mean I think cause she pushed through those, you pushed through that, that survival limit. Okay. And you do do damage. It reminds me of a really funny story. Um, I was racing autumn in Austria back in 2005, so would have been my first right man. Oh uh, yeah. First Imam. So week before I had, um, Oh go, this is going in my head, uh, not boil. Um, and then fiction, uh, [inaudible] on my head anyway, so I had, I had a, had a medical problem and yeah. Um, so from that they said, Oh look, you know, you may not be able to race. And so during the rice, like I felt good beforehand and I said, okay, look, yep, you've got the clearance, go for it. And I felt amazing. I swam really well up with the front packs out onto the bike and feeling good. Got 50 K, and then I just started vomiting from 50 K right through to the a hundred into the 190 K ride. And I'm sitting here going, I don't know how I'm going to get through this rice if I can't get food. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (20:46) got onto the felt good, Speaker 3: (20:48) you know, I felt pretty crappy near the end of the bike and then got on the run and felt good for the first 10 K and going along nicely. And then I'm like sitting there going, I need to eat and I need to drink because I'm kidding. Anything down all day, you know, we're a six, seven hours into the rice by them. And I remember, I remember sitting down at the 21K Mark it was a loop, a double loop course. You come back past the finish line a couple of times and I could hear on the loudspeaker, a friend of mine ran out to sink being called out and saying, I went to our champion for today, ran out two sinks about to cross the line. And so I remember that and that's the last thing I remember. And, and I woke up in the medical tent [inaudible] I was like, how do I do? And they're like, what do you mean? I said, where did I finish? And they're like, Oh, we found you at the 22 K Mark or running down the wrong road and we were trying to stop you. And you're like, no, leave me. I'm about to catch the widow completely out of it. Just lost it. You know, body wanted to keep going. But I had, isn't it amazing how strong the mind is though, that you can push yourself to almost killing yourself? Yeah. Yup, yup. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (22:02) and like you, you know, through all this, these, you know, the cycle if you like, of of going had crashing, growing, had crashing, going hog crashing. It just started to learn something that you've actually like used today and you are in your world today. Okay. Yeah. So when, so when I was sitting there and I talked about, you know, being in that position, hospital, yeah. A couple of years ago and okay, I realized I needed to break the CEO code. And the big thing for me was I have all this amazing knowledge and lessons learned from the athlete world, from coaching, from being a sports science in that high performance space. And I was using none of it, none of it. And here's a lesson for everyone in life. There are four basic fundamentals to performance. Anyone, no matter what you do, it's exercise, nutrition, freeing your mind and recovering with purpose. Speaker 3: (22:57) Now all of those have effects on your ability to perform mentally, physically, emotionally. Okay. [inaudible] they have huge effects on things like your mood on your ability, your cognitive function, your ability to, to actually process information [inaudible] okay. Don't have those imbalance, then you will limit your performance potential. So I was, look at it this way, your talent sits, your minimum performance ceiling, your exercise, your nutrition, you're freeing your mind and you're covering with purpose determines how high you can lift the ceiling. All right? So that is what controls that your talent controls just your minimum height. So you could be the most talented person in the world, but if you don't look after yourself, you're not going to get anywhere near your potential. Hmm. And so obviously we say that quite often they get lazy and know everything's too easy for them when they're younger. And then finally, some people who actually really look after themselves come through and Sean above them, and that works in whatever space it is, whether it be a musician or a speaker, a coach, an athlete, a parents, whatever it may be, that will determine it. Speaker 3: (24:16) And then the second aspect is, uh, that are really thrived on and tested and tried many times is paradise nation and of the term that CEO paradise relation. Now puritization initially comes from cataloging in the library system and it was cataloging on periods of time. Then the sporting world took it, especially in endurance and used it to paradise. There they work in stress loads and balance it with recovery periods so that they can get jumps in performance over time. So as they recovered, their performance would go to a high level. I would stress it, they dropped down their performance, but then when they recovered it would go higher again. So I applied that to work. Um, and as we talked about before, you don't recognize the fatigue that's going on and you push and push and push. And because it's the stimulus is that the change is so small and it's a catastrophic event, then you don't, you, your body is adapting to it. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (25:12) so important to actually plan the recovery and, and that can be on a daily basis, weekly, monthly, yearly or career basis. Now, the Korea one is fascinating because I've only met two people so far who do this extremely well. One is Anne gripper, who used to be CEO of triathlon Australia and she's now working at new South Wales office of sport as their CEO. And she is into a fourth cycle of five years in a job, one year off, five years on, one year off. And she planned that, you know, uh, what are we looking at about seven, eight, nine years ago now? Nearly 20 years ago. Yeah. Each of her breaks, she's done something completely different. Yeah. And some might think of it as a sabbatical, but no, this is actually planned. It's not seven or more years. It's, it's every or five years on, one year off. Speaker 3: (26:03) And so she cycled the world for one of them. She set up a philanthropy, uh, in another one and the other one, she has gone off and done her masters at one of the prestigious Mmm postgraduate schools in Switzerland for school, the lighting. So I'm looking forward to what's next. I don't know. I haven't actually spoken to her. What's next? The other one is Del Beaumont. Del Bowman is a bit of a legend in the personal development and kind of marketing spice and has a huge following in Australia and around the world. And he's been working for 17 years and kind of that personal development space for the last 10 years. He works two months on, one month off. Wow. Three months on, one month off. And so during that one month off, he generally goes to a new country around the world. He takes his, his wife has young children and he's been, I think he's over a hundred countries now. Speaker 3: (26:58) He's been to, and so that's the approach he's taken now. He has a, he's built a team behind him. He's put trust in them. I'm sure he will really hard during the two months, but then he has a full one month off where it's completely off work. Yeah. Extremely good. Uh, if we took a look at it from a year point of view, most people will go, all right, I've got four weeks holiday. I'll take them off inside the Southern hemisphere. They'll take them off for Christmas and they'll spend time with the children. I've a summer, a Northern hemisphere would obviously be July, August period. So what they do is they work 11 months and then they just have this recovery there. So it's a long time to be staying on and performing at a high level. Exactly. Yeah. And so what's more effective is if, how do we look at, can we put things in every three months or every four months and actually scheduling those [inaudible] your diaries before the start of the year, like an athlete would. Speaker 3: (27:52) They plan the recovery periods at Welland avant, sometimes up to four years if they're into an Olympic cycle. [inaudible] and you sit there with your family and you plan that so that you're both offered the same time, if that's what you want to do. If you're married, if you're not, then obviously you just need to look after yourself. It's a bit easier. Um, but as you plan that time away from the work that you're doing away from the passion that you're in, get out in night, go see some new places, change your environment and allow that mind to refresh and the body to recover and that as well. Uh, and then obviously we can type that down to even into a WIC space where, how do we cycle those periods? What has been fascinating through the research with Don [inaudible] pretty much in, in endurance athletes and also in anything that's done in business, it works out to be about a three to one work to rest ratio. Speaker 3: (28:43) Yeah, three, two, one. So say an athlete will generally go three weeks on one week off, three weeks on, one week off. Now if sometimes they may do a longer period up to five or six weeks and then, but then they need a longer recovery period to balance that back. But it's still equal somewhere around three to one, unless they're doing something really extreme. And in the, it might need to be a lot more recovery in the working world. They do stuff, uh, say on a daily basis where they look at how long can a, a high performer achieve high levels of performance and productivity over period of time. Now there's some that say 52 minutes, um, of work at that level and before they start to lose the, the performance and lose the productivity and it takes about 70 minutes to get that back. Speaker 3: (29:33) There are others who say 45 minutes, 15 but most of the studies are still based around a three to one where it's risk ratio. So it's a great place to stop. Now if you go through what a lot of CEOs and a lot of businesses and a lot of families are going through right now, which is a massive stress load with dealing with [inaudible], you actually go into needs more recovery in there. Yup. Or a longer piece of recovery coming up. Now we're pretty much going to be forced to doing that because you're working from home. Yup. There might be some stresses, yes. But you're pretty much going to be forced to do that, which will be really good for you. Really good for you to take that time out to recover [inaudible] and we're using it to recover, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so the key message is here that it's all around proactively planning recovery so you can sustain high levels of performance and productivity all the time. Speaker 3: (30:27) And that's what I've been able to do since then. I don't drink coffee, I don't have sugar, I don't um, touch soft drinks. I don't have any caffeine whatsoever. I can't cause my heart anyway, but I have consistent energy all day. I don't get to a point where I fall over. I don't get to a point where I feel it declining. If that happens. It's extremely rare because I plan my recovery, I've got my exercise, nutrition, freeing my mind and recovering with purpose embedded every single day. And if I do need to do a period of how to work, then I will, I will plan a longer period of recovery in there. So I will look at it and go, okay, this project is going to take quite a bit of time. So I know I need to have some recovery in it. Yeah. At the moment, I am having to stop pretty early in the morning because of dealing with some stuff with covert 19 from a local, national, international level in multiple areas. Speaker 3: (31:21) So I have to start at five Oh six in the morning and I might not finish till nine at night, but I'll go out in the middle of the day and I go for a two three hour bike ride and have some recovery. So I'm in the middle of the dice. So I ensure that I can perform at a high level. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, it's really about planning in doing the very basic things. Well, you sleep, you know, when you were doing in Taiwan and you hit that four to five hours a night's sleep, it's a disaster. Well, your hormones now, when do you put on my, you know, I don't order those sort of things. Uh, really those sort of things are really crucial. But their sleep, the hydration, the nutrition in the meantime breaks. If we all would agree on that and they exercise. Oh, absolutely. No, we are, we're singing from the same song shake Theo thing. Yeah. And it's certainly important. I like it. There's been a whole thing of the last sort of 10 years around that the hype before or that the people can go without slave and they'd be performing a massively. Now there's something trying to me what the statistic is. Speaker 3: (32:27) Oh yeah. I think it's something like 7%. It may even be less than that of people that can survive, that can function at the highest level off around five to six hours. Yeah, it's very few, Speaker 2: (32:40) but most people, it's around eight to nine hours. And every time you reduce that, like say if you reduce it by half an hour, you probably won't notice it too much because your body's adapting to it. But it does have quite a big effect [inaudible] on your IQ. Obviously your intelligence, your emotional intelligence, as you said, your hormones, which you fix, uh, things such as energy to fix, such as things as your mood. It affects your ability to cope under pressure. Alright. Really important things that you need to have firing in all cylinders. So the people that are thrived, Oh, sorry. Yeah. People that are thriving at the moment rather than just surviving the coven 19 and coronavirus people that actually [inaudible] sitting quite healthy and are able to make decisions rationally. I will too go through thought processes and um, ensure that they have the cognitive function, deal with things effectively. Speaker 2: (33:37) Those that have come into it a little tired that don't, don't have a healthy body are the ones that are struggling the most. Yeah, yup. Mean to the end physically and [inaudible] sleep deprivation one, um, that really over time leads to cognitive decline, you know, which I'm, you know, specialized in learning about brain rehabilitation and, and the correlation between Alzheimer's and dementia and lack of sleep over many years is it's a very strong one. Mmm. So for that reason alone, you know, you need to, if you want to have a brain that is performing into, you know, like the stats already in your thirties and your forties, you know, this is already a map to climb. Okay. And you, you know, optimizing every area of your life so that you can cope. What's the [inaudible] you know, I like, I've got a [inaudible] well it shouldn't be healthy fit. [inaudible] and I can face this courses with a beta lot of energy [inaudible] to focus on, you know, like I've got more to, to, to more resilience. Speaker 2: (34:47) And at the moment we're all going a little bit, well some of us are going and sign the hat, um, and we have to for this short period of time and that's okay. As long as we're the planning and as soon as this one's down that you've got some recovery in there somewhere. Otherwise you will. Hello. I mean, I know this, like with my mum, I'm having that aneurism and you know, the book that I've just [inaudible] for that relentless, the first three years were seven days a week, you know, operating two companies working with her all day and not a day off. Never a day off. Yeah. Oh, you know, in the first six months it was round the clock and there was hardly any time for sleep. It was, yeah, four to five hours of sleep. And you know, I paid, I paid a massive price, but I had to, to survive. And now I have to, my body isn't quite as as it should be. Speaker 3: (35:38) And I have to rebuild those resources again. And that is an extreme, you know, situations that you had to, you know, and we know as athletes how to do that for a period of time. The thing is [inaudible] don't, don't mistake mental toughness with, you know, you're, you're, you're still a human, you're not Bulletproof. I would like to think we are as athletes, we're not, and we will have limitations and we need to respect their bodies and gives them time to come back sooner or later and hopefully sooner. Mmm. So Craig, I now need to ramp up shortly and I know that you've got lots of things to get onward. So the periodization, the three two one is a really important factor adhering to the basics. Uh, got you. What else did you like? What would ask, would you like to leave as parting words for people to think about and we can they find you and reach out to you if they wanna work with you? Speaker 3: (36:36) Yeah. Brilliant. I think one of the best [inaudible] the most important things is here is it. It's about the basics. You know, if we look at the most effective sports teams in the world are most effective athletes, they focused a lot on the basics and getting them right. What we're seeing a lot now in say the sporting world as we're seeing a lot of people going for the shiny things, they want to mimic the plays that the all blacks do. They want to be trying to do the same sessions as and the Olympic. A runner. Yeah, Stitcher, and so they want to go for the shiny things first. It is or about the basics and that's the same thing when it comes to looking after your body. [inaudible] no matter whether you're a mum or your a CEO or you're someone going to work or you look after the [inaudible], the [inaudible], the community bridge club. Speaker 3: (37:23) It's about the bicycles. If you want to [inaudible] high performing person, I think that's really, really important. [inaudible] the second thing is that you need to obviously make sure that you're preparing to perform every day. If we look at athletes, singers, dances, songwriters, artists in what people would term is the performing areas. Um, and what they don't realize everything is performing. But I would consider those as performance ones. They spend over 95% of their time training, preparing, planning, and less than 5% of their time actually competing. Now when it comes to the business world, corporate world, it's the complete opposite. So they actually spend more than around 95% of their time actually competing. Yeah. And very little time planning, preparing training to be better, to improve their performance and to get the best out of their team. So I have the second phase of breaking the CEO code is performance is the three P's of leadership performance touched on CEO paradise [inaudible]. Speaker 3: (38:31) The second one is CUI prisons. Now CEO prisons is around, how do you turn up? Oh, sorry. How do you show up and turn it up? So it is how do you prepare for a meeting or an interaction or for a project? Cause most people just roll in. Yeah. We see quite often in the corporate world where people will go back to back to back meetings. Um, and even if they don't, they'll just rock into a meeting. They'll pull out their diary and go, Oh, we're talking about this today. Can someone brief me what's happening? Yeah, absolutely. Zero preparation. There's no preparation to right. Sometimes. Ah, yeah. And we all get caught in it sometimes, but wouldn't it be more effective if you actually plan for it? You thought about what you were going to say and what impact you are going to have on people. Uh, and, and you speak. So generally as a speaker, one of the key things you focus on before you get on stages, you visualize how you want the audience to react and feel afterwards. How do you want them to react and fill afterwards? So [inaudible] you've got to bring the performance, bring the energy, and you've got to evoke the emotions that are required. So that's in any meeting, in any discussion, any sales. Yeah. Any relationship that's so important. Evoke the new bright emotions, not any emotion. The right emotion. Speaker 3: (39:56) Okay. And then once you evoke the emotions, you then need to make sure that you leave them with a message and something to do next. So what, what is the action that is going to occur? So prisons is all about your nonverbal communication. It's around your communication as well. Content you are going to say. So go back to nonverbal. It's around your body language. It's the way you bring your energy to the room. Mmm. [inaudible] the most important aspect because people feed a lot more off the nonverbals than they do the verbals. So we actually react. And so 97% of the message comes from the nonverbals, not the actual verbal content. Well, not what you're saying. Yep. That's how you say it. Yep. And how you deliver it. Yeah. Yeah. So that prison is so important. So a lot of the time we start, we talk with our, with the say CEOs executives to go, alright, let's cut yours, schedule your meetings in half. Speaker 3: (40:53) And it freaks them out. And we know we have to get the pay on the to do it and it teaches him to delegate the low and medium priorities to other people to look after. And so they just focus on the high priorities. And this is so important right now during covert 19 and coronavirus. You need to identify what are the high priorities and then determine what is going to have the greatest impact with the least amount of effort. And you move the medium and low, um, priorities and delegate them and empower your staff to look after those and given some responsibility. Don't take all the responsibility yourself. Hmm. So that's a really powerful thing right now. Mmm [inaudible] then obviously once we've reduced the number of meetings, we, we then go, okay, we need to put some time in beforehand. So you plan not just understand the content and maybe your outcome, but how you're going to deliver. Speaker 3: (41:47) And then after the meeting you need to make sure you've got a debrief and some time to recover because we need to make sure that you're performing at three, two, one work to rest ratio throughout the day. [inaudible] come four or five o'clock when you might need to be making some really key decisions. You still have the energy, you still able to perform [inaudible] best to bring the best out of the people you've got. So powerful. The third phase is CEO performance and CEO performance is around developing high performing habits and high-performing habits. Uh, [inaudible] around making sure that you have your and your [inaudible] mental state that you're removing any obstacles, any, uh, things that are cluttering your mind, anything that is preventing you from being your best. So it does integrate. So that first one, that first phase of your foundations of exercise, nutrition fraying and modern recovery does include those. Speaker 3: (42:45) But there are also other things. It's around ensuring that you don't contaminate the home space with workspace. Yeah. This is really, really important right now I working at home. So maybe I think for this, uh, I would just go into what's really important right now for those that haven't worked at home before. You need to set some boundaries, create a space where you do work only and only work. Do we need to make sure that it's, you can keep the children away if possible, unless they're really young. You may need to adjust this, that drinks can't be spilled, etc. That distractions are put to the side. You need to make sure that when you step out of that room, you go from being in work. So now being in home life, yup. Or release life, you put the new hat on, you need to make sure when you get up in the morning, you keep your routine as consistent as possible to what you would do from a normal working day. Speaker 3: (43:41) Keep that routine because then your body's not reacting to stuff. Your body reacts when it's [inaudible] doesn't, it's unfamiliar. Yeah. It would be proactive. So get up, have a shower hugely out of your pajamas. Cause I'm sure there's a lot of you that are sitting in your pajamas and your boxer shorts, et cetera right now or your underwear doing your work at home. No, you've got to step out and get into the right mental state and you know, I have breakfast stopped the day as you would [inaudible] then you need to make sure that you've actually got planned time in there to step out and get some exercise, recharge the batteries, clear them on freedom mind, um, and, and have a break from things cause it's so easy to get caught up, especially when you're at home. And for those that are normally used to being in a really busy office with lots of calls and emails going on, now I'm going to find you actually probably not this week, but in the next couple of weeks you'll find you have a lot more time for yourself and you'd be able to get in the zone and standard zone a lot longer. Speaker 3: (44:42) So when you're in that space, it is still important because if you want great performance throughout the whole day, through the whole week, through over the next few months, [inaudible] got to proactively put in the recovery now otherwise you will struggle later on. Yup. Mmm. And that is so important. Now there might be some if you're like, um, let's see how, so if, if you've heard of the five love languages. No. So there are Gary Chapman, check it out. [inaudible] fascinating, fascinating stuff. And it talks about one of the five love languages and how if you can understand what your love languages and you understand what someone else's is and then you know how to work with them. So my love language is acts of service. So I like it when people do things and I do things, that's my love language. Whereas my wife is physical touch and quality time, so she likes to be close to me. Speaker 3: (45:33) We don't need to speak, don't need to talk much. And she dislikes to be close to me. So there might be an instance where say [inaudible] because they might be a bit more work to do right now is I might go out in the lounge, but we know clearly that I'm still working. We're, we're aware of that if we want to. And so it can be close to each other. If we want to have a discussion, I close the laptop, take it back, put it in the office, and then we sit down and have our discussion and talk through things or discuss whatever we want to. That's a good tip for me actually. Cause I'm, yeah. Tend to just be 24, seven hovering around the computer and sometimes the husband, it doesn't get detention in dates when he needs it. Yeah, because you were always, that delineation is really, really, yup. Speaker 3: (46:19) And relationships are absolutely number one priority. It's so easy for us to brush them off to the side and get busy with work in the end. The people that are always going to be there when things are struggling, uh, when, when times are tough, when overwhelmed sitting are your family and your friends. And so if you [inaudible] [inaudible] them right anytime of the year, you can do it for a little bit. But if you do it over a long period of time, that relationship will deteriorate. So make sure if you've got healthy relationships, you have a healthy life and you have healthy work, um, and productivity and performance. Excellent. All right. It gives it a nice wrap I think for that. Perfect. Wrap up. So Craig, we can people reach out to you. I know you have a whole bunch of things that you offer in courses and a work that you do with [inaudible] CEO isn't so on as a speaker is a drug. Speaker 3: (47:10) Can you just give us where they can find you and we can put that in the show notes? So, yeah. Brilliant. So we have WW dot [inaudible] uh, J, the number two, the form.com and that's where we have everything around coaching these details there. On the speaking that I do workshops, I have yet to see your on there. And also a range of videos that I'm doing at the moment. So at the moment I'm doing a daily video [inaudible]. It brings the breaking the CEO code principles and relates them directly to coven 19 and coronavirus. So there's a three to seven minute video coming out every day you can get on social media, YouTube, um, and also on the website and that's around leadership, wellbeing and performance in the business space and for home life in that as well. So there's some great opportunities there. I also have a brand new website, which is still in construction, but [inaudible] you can view it at the moment. Speaker 3: (48:05) And that is Craig, John, speaker.com. So Craig, John speaker.com and that just focuses more around speaking that I do an emceeing as well. Sorry. [inaudible] yeah, great. So you can grab me on LinkedIn. Ah, always got stuff happening every day on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram and Twitter sort of not so much do stuff there, but my main focus is around LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. Fantastic. Craig, thank you so much for your insights, your wisdom, your knowledge today and sharing it in this difficult time. I know that some of these practical w tips and in life tips and help and support, um, well be well received and are going to help people during this crisis. And you know, right now more than anything, I think that the work that you do and what we do as well as is very passionate and very relevant to today's crisis and keeping people safe and healthy, uh, immediately healthy to get through this, this horrible crisis that we're all facing. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (49:04) Craig, thank you very much for your time and your energy today and thanks for having me on your show. I really appreciate that. Yeah, we'll be, um, anything else you want to say? We've got Lisa, thank you very much. It's absolute pleasure. A lot of speaking and connecting with you. Bring out some really interesting questions and some great, uh, topics to discuss and really there to help people, you know, it's pushing the boundaries to go, you know, what, let's do things better or even different to what we'd done before because it's so important that we have more people out there being high performing leaders and high performing people who are having are really positive and calming and effective influence on the people around them right now. So thank you very much. Thanks, Craig. Speaker 1: (49:48) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.  

As part of our commitment to our community, my coach/business partner at Running Hot Coaching Neil Wagstaff and I are going to be releasing a whole raft of new content aimed at getting you through this coronavirus crisis. Information aimed at boosting your immunity, keeping you fit despite the movement restrictions we are facing, and mindset and motivation advice to keep you on track and focussed and ready to take on the challenges this time will bring. First up we have done a session immunity-boosting and doing a wellness check. Steps you can take to make sure your mind and body are ready to cope and there you will be strong to help others in your care. If you want help with personalizing your nutrition, fitness training or help with your mindset during this time please reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com and check out our programs at www.lisatamati.com  For our free 8 weeks at home, strength training program go to https://strength.lisatamati.com/ Check out our free weekly podcast "Pushing the Limits" - a show all about everything health, fitness, biohacking, the latest breakthroughs in science, elevating human performance. https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at https://www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds... Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option. Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) This week I have my wingman, Neil Wagstaff, who's been my coach and my business partner for well over a decade now. Today of course we're living in some pretty unusual times with the Corona virus hitting hard. It's very, very frightening and we're not sure what to expect. And last week we had a fantastic episode with dr Manson Mohamad on that subject. If you want to find out all those details about everything that you need to be aware with, with coronavirus, they make sure you check out last week's episode. But this week we turning our focus now to in positive responses to the crisis that we're facing. So immunity, boosting our immunity, lowering stress levels, and learning how to take care of yourself through the crisis is the focus of today's session. We're going to be doing a wellness checklist. We're going to be talking you through the different areas and what they will mean for you and how you can implement some easy wins into your life. Speaker 2: (01:09) So I will now going to pass over to my mate Neil Wagstaff who sitting over and have lot North. But before I do, just a reminder, I do have my book just out. It's March last week, literally in the middle of the pandemic. Don't match a book in the middle of a pandemic. It's not a good idea, notes herself. But relentless is now available. You can get it on my website. You can also get it in bookstores throughout New Zealand and you can also get it on audio and on Amazon and it's available worldwide by the printer on demand services pretty much everywhere that you can possibly think of. So if you want to check that out, head over to my website, lisatamati.com And you can grab it there or I will put the link to my international sales page in the show notes so you can click on it if you are overseas. Right. Without further ado then over to the show. Hi guys. Lisa Tamati here and I'm here with my wingman and Neil Wagstaff and today we're going to be talking a wellness check in how to increase in boost your immunity. So if you're listening via my podcast, pushing the limits, welcome. And if you're on video or you're on Facebook listening to this, welcome again to the show. I'm Neil. How you're doing over and have a lot lighters. We had times, isn't it Speaker 3: (02:26) In a strange way, in a strange way, Chi personally off a lot of, been part of a science fiction movie. Very bizarre. It's a weird, it's a way week. But what has worked for me this week? I'm not going to lie. There's been some anxious moments, there's been some stressful moments. But what works for me again, again is just coming back to the, the easy wins and low hanging fruit. The bits I can control and if I'm focusing on the bits I can control on feeling, I'm feeling a whole lot better. Speaker 2: (02:53) Absolutely. And this is what we want to do with you guys. We're going to start putting out a whole lot more content online to help you cope with the stress and being stuck at home and what you can do to, to optimize your health over the this corona virus time that we are all going through as a, as a, you know, the whole humanity basically. And to keep yourself well. So Neil yeah, we'll give you a quick introduction. My name is Lisa Tamati. I'm an ultra endurance athlete for 25 years. I'm now retired and Neil was my coach for over a decade and saved my career and we've since gone into business and we have a company called running hot coaching together that helps train people and athletes, both has health coaches in as running coaches and epigenetics coaches. We try and have a 700 people all around the world. So we love what we do. We're very passionate about sharing our knowledge and we're going to share a little bit today with you. We didn't want to start new. Speaker 3: (03:54) Let's start with a, a wellness check. My, so this is something that we use with our members at the gym, at peak fitness and health. We also use it with our athletes through running hot as well. And I was thinking of how we could, we could share some, some stuff that'd be useful to some people at this time. And I kept coming back to this lady so I just kept coming back again and again, it's simple, it's straightforward and a lot of people look at these things and think they're too simple. But if we can get control of these things through these tough times, then it's going to make a real difference to our to our bodies, our health, most importantly on mental health and wellness as well. So looking at what we want you guys and girls do at home is write these things down and we can send you a copy as well if you want. Speaker 3: (04:37) So just let us know afterwards. We're going to write ourselves on a scale of one to 10. You can do this each day, but I suggest you do check in on a regular basis because it's going to be easy at the moment for these things to get carried away. So we're going to rate ourselves on a scale of one to ten one being that we're, we're feeling like we're in the toilet and nothing's going well. 10 being rock and roll, we're ready to part a. We are all guns blazing. Now if all of us, we want to be all guns blazing. Okay. What we're going to want to do is that's going to vary throughout the day, so I'm throughout the week as well. So if we can see where we're at, then it makes it easy for us to identify which areas we can work on. Some weeks we might be low in just a couple of things, some weeks just one, some weeks you might be loading more things, but what allows us then to do is take control and make decisions on where we're at with our own personal health and wellness. And more importantly, if we get these things up and get all schools up, guess what's going to call them as well, which is so, so important at the moment is their immunity. If we can get the community out that is so important for us as well, but also our loved ones around us. And especially our parents or grandparents as well. Speaker 2: (05:35) Yes, very much so. They're elderly so we want you to scale one to 10 for each of these sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, energy, body in stress and give yourself a writing a one to 10 and if you're coming out with some pretty low scores, you've got lot ones and twos and threes and pores. Then you need to sort of understand your body is not in a good place and you need to be adding in some more teaching to the areas that you've got deficit on. Now we use this, where are isolates when they're judging how hard they should be training. Because if they've got poor sleep, poor nutrition, and they were really dehydrated, used to then maybe they had five beers, then we're probably not going to go out and put them into the really hardest transition of the wake. And the reason is because we're not going to get the effect that we're after and we're actually going to cause the body more stress. Speaker 2: (06:19) So this is a tool that we use with our isolates, but this works also with just general people going through the population and just knowing where you are on all of these neighborhoods so that you don't end up, you know, with too much stress and putting your body on to too much load at a time when we're all naturally going to be under a lot of stress. So that's the wellness check. We can seen that out to anybody who wants to reach out to us from seeing you a little spreadsheet with us on. Yeah. So make sure you've taken, you know, take note of this and actually use it. Speaker 3: (06:49) So where I'm from there, what we're going to do guys is just take you through some of our really easy wins or low hanging fruit for each of these. So you've got some takeaways to actually work with and do. So looking at sleep, sleep is essential as we all know for ultimate recovery of the body and the mind. So it's not just the body is going to be the mind as well. If we sacrifice sleep, we are going to be putting yourself at higher risk and we begin to put in those around us and looking at how we organize our jobs, our day routine and structure, we're going to be key moving forward. We think a lot more clearly when we're well rested. So some easy tips of sleep because you are, the more stressed you are, the more stress you feel, the more important the need is to rest and recover. So our message to our athletes and our message to those that are training hard in the gym is if you are working hard, then rest hard. Okay, rude and Paul and you're gonna work hard, rest hard, even more important. Now. So if we are going hard, putting more time and effort into things, make sure we allow time for the rest. Then we're going to split rest down into three different things. I'll total rest reduced workloads and then meet on important that we've got all three of those types of rests in our lives Speaker 3: (07:51) To ask before. Midnight is worth four hours of sleep after midnight. It's your adrenals. So if we're out of the stress load then gets a better like 10 o'clock should be the cut off. Real simply speaking, that can vary from person to person. But simple low hanging fruit is think about winding down nine o'clock and then being out lights out by 10 o'clock make a big difference to how your body's responding. Our body will follow the natural rhythm to life. So slow down, relaxes the sunsets and wa and get up. I'm ready for the days of sunrises. Speaker 2: (08:23) We have very much Heidi and based something we Neo, we need the natural rhythms and within, you know, artificial light. One of the tricks that I've got for you there is the blue blocking glasses. I use those at nighttime. If I'm watching telly, if I'm on, have to be on the computer or anything like that, I've got my blue blocking glasses so that I don't affect the melatonin that has been produced, which is inhibited when I've got the blue light exposure at nighttime. And that can stop me going to sleep. So that's a really good quick and simple tip. They're easy to get online for 20 odd bucks. So grab those blue blocking glasses and dim your lights and try to follow the natural rhythm of the world because that's what our body developed from. And your adrenals are just so important right now and your stress levels and your hormones and getting that sleep is when your hormones are know doing their thing is when your adrenals are doing the thing. So if you're, if you're, you're burning the midnight oil and you know, a lot of us are going to have to be because we're, we're you know, stressed out with work, we're losing our jobs and that, but just don't underestimate the power of sleep is very, very important. Speaker 3: (09:29) So physical repair journey happens between 10:00 AM I'm sorry, 10:00 PM that should be in and 2:00 AM psychological repairs will happen between 2:00 AM and 6:00 AM. So simply speaking, if you've got a high physical stress load, same him to bed at the latest. That's when you're getting your bodies recover. You've got high psychological stress and stay in bed a little bit longer in the morning. If you can't do every day, pick some days where you can, again, low hanging fruit if it doesn't work every day, pick some days where you can so you can let your voice, your body and your mind recover. Again, simple things. Look at that. It's based on good science and good facts and you all know and when you've had a good night's sleep, how much better you feel? Don't let it accumulate, so don't let the low sleep. If you've been nailing happily I L sleep and you've started letting it drop to six and a half or seven, just don't let it accumulate. Speaker 3: (10:17) You can control it. Take this as one of the things you can control in your life and put it to the top of the priority list and reduce work load, allow you your body to take some risks, empty your bucket. We'll move on and talk about that later on the stress bucket and a bit more detail, but allow yourself some, some options to reduce and have a lower workload. Okay? Yup. So what we mean by that is sort of going, some still say that. And what we mean by that is should you a lie a lot a week of exercise, you're training hard to refreeze four weeks, you should have a lot a week of exercise as well. Okay. So is period bicep periodization. But more important now that you do LA cell, some weeks they just have an off week. I have a week where you reduce intensity, reduce loads and that applies not just to exercise to the other bits in your life as well. Speaker 2: (11:04) Yeah. So what about the rhythms again? And of course we could break this down and go into a lot more detail for different body types and epigenetic genetic types. And all that sort of thing, but just keeping it simple for you to at the moment. It's a nice rhythm of things. Speaker 3: (11:19) You're talking about lists. Speaker 2: (11:20) Yeah. So growing up my we were back to the number one. Speaker 3: (11:25) You got that there? Speaker 2: (11:26) Yeah, we were on the fifth grade. Now we're on the first grade. So next one should be all about while you're trying to fix that, Neil, I'll go on to the you know, the title, the title, race one. If you can pull that one up. Number six. Speaker 3: (11:40) it's Speaker 2: (11:42) Sorry guys, this one's a soul about having a little bit of me time. Now this is not being selfish. I want you guys to understand that having time for yourself, if you're a mother and you've got kids and you think, Oh, I just need to give, give, give, give, taking a little bit of time for yourself. We'll give the kids more than online because you'll be less irritated, irritable. You'll be laced short with the kids. You'll have more energy to actually cope with the whole stuff. So taking this a little bit of may, Tom isn't weakness and isn't being selfish. It's being sensible, just sensible. You need the time to heal and repair and to have time out and you need to just do things that will lower your stress levels. Now, I mean this is a sound very simple like going and having a boss, but like going and having a boss before going to sleep. Speaker 2: (12:33) For example, changing your body temperature signals to your body that you are really getting ready for bed and actually helps you fall into a sleep. Meditation is a wonderful toe. It doesn't actually have to be just a sitting meditation or aligned meditation. Some people can do like meditating. Like I really made a tight end movement really well. But it's giving you the time away from the problems of the world, from the bloody computer, from the, the kids screaming at you. Just getting some time at, you know, like I love reading books too and I have a, usually a pile of science books this big on my, on my table. But actually just before I got asleep, I tune off all of the sciency stuff and I actually got on read a stupid novel, some crazy adventure novel because I actually don't want to be continuing the work mode at 11 at night. Speaker 2: (13:22) I need a little bit of just some, you know me time and I need that before I power down. Now sunshine is another very important aspect here. Getting a sunshine means getting your vitamin D precursor. A new vitamin D is really, really essential for so many functions in the body. You wouldn't believe how many things that vitamin D is responsible for. Things like your calcium absorption, the strength of your muscles and your bones your mood. Of course everything is is related. A lot of it is related to vitamin D and that comes from having enough sunshine on your skin every day. So really, really important things. Anything dad they knew Speaker 3: (14:04) Nice, but again, keep it simple guys. It's looking at low hanging fruit or some little things that you can add in and just keep just checking is the whole point of this, this discussion is, is is checking in with you yourself so that you know that if things are not feeling good, that you can add these things back in and sometimes as simple as reading a bit what Lisa said is enough to just allow your body to go, ah, thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Yup. Right, and nutrition. Now, the reason we've added this thing, guys and girls, this can put a big load on your body if it's the wrong stuff, and it really jumps out to me when I went into the supermarket yesterday to get some stuff that dinner and I saw how much of the processed food had been emptied off the shelves. Speaker 3: (14:43) Now what worries Lisa and I about that massively as if the processed food has been emptied off the shelves and it's not actually needed. Then what lot of people were worried about we'll be doing is then using that because it's in the cupboard. So all of a sudden a good diet changes so bad though, which then adds more load and pressure on the body and creates more inflammation. So simple way, just simple advice and very basic care. But the standard diet or the standard diet, the where we're seeing with the amount of food that's been taken off the shelves is, is crap. So much crap is in your diet is more than 20% or two out of 10 foods and we need to change that. So removing poor choices from your diet, what would you say? Additional stress on your body and and start to take out the information which is going to be better for your immunity. Speaker 3: (15:27) So don't fall into the trap of thinking, I'll stock up on a couple of extra bass, a packet food or some what pastor, what bread and things like that and go, Oh cause it's in the cupboards. I'm going to use that instead of what I'd normally, sorry, the correct carbohydrates. I'll, what breads or what flowers are what sugars? The white devils refined foods packet foods versus closer to the source. EG Apple versus Apple juice. So, and then looking at what's in the food. So read your packets, how many items are listed on it. If there's a long list of items on the foods and there's, you've bought something for just in case you need it. If there's full, the numbers, if there's a long list of stuff, don't put it in your body unless you really, really have to all this stuff. We'll just put more load on your body, which then in the, in, in the current world is gonna make a stressful situation feel even worse, cause your body's now full of stuff that is not used to. Speaker 3: (16:19) So make, continue to make sensible choices around your, around your food. So making the change. If you're gonna want to stock up with foods and you're doing that, that's fine. Don't, there's a need. We've already been given the information. There's no need to, you know, start ordering stuff. But if you want to get some extra stuff and then make some choices that are healthier. Okay. one of our favorite books by Paul Check, how to eat, move and be healthy as a great resource and a great ones. Put them on a list and we'll take you through this information in a little bit or a lot more, a lot more detail. Okay. Yeah. And if you want to add there, Speaker 2: (16:54) Yeah, it's just very high level stuff. But you know, when we're under stress, when we facing the coronavirus, we want our immune system in tip top condition of course that, you know, our supplements and their vitamins and all that. But we are, most of our vitamins going to be coming from and now minerals and so on. It's going to be coming from my phone. So if we're eating too much processed food, data's royally or crappy food with bad fats and so on, that's really going to put a drain on our resources and our body needs everything. It doesn't. If we do get the Corona Vos, you need everything to be able to flush it. Or if you want to stop it actually getting, then the more your immune system is working, the better you're going to have, a bit of chance you're going to have. So we could go into all the details of all of the different types of people and what you need for all of that. And if anyone wants to find out about that, you can reach out to us. We have an epigenetic program which looks at your genes and how you do it, but just as a general thing, keep away from less processed foods, cut deep fried stuff that's crappy. Vegetable oils and so on and cut the sugar. You know, if you just do that eight times out of team, you know, no one's perfect and he was not perfect. I'm not perfect, but it's all about what you do on the regular basis, Speaker 3: (18:05) Not be the case. Remember, because Gail's food is designed to fool your body, so after you eat, you should feel satisfied. You shouldn't be craving sugar, sugary foods. Food should restore energy and improve our wellbeing and mental clarity. So if we're feeling sluggish, tired, jittery, or hyper, it's a strong song. The food we're putting in is not agreeing with us. So listen to what your body's saying. All point in the wellness check when you think about your nutrition is has it done the job? It shouldn't for me. So these again are an easy win. If we're putting stuff in that's going to make us feel sides, Cheerio hopper, then replace it. Try something else and see how it makes you feel. Because often then that it's going to cloud our judgment. It's going cloud our thought process and make things feel, feel worse than they are. Speaker 2: (18:47) Yeah. And that decision making process, you know, when, you know, they've proven that when you have a crappy foods, you make worse decisions in life in general. So you know, like it's a really good thing to stay away from. And one of the biggest culprits I see is all the sugary soft drinks that we, you know what you see kids just pouring them down. It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, like data's really the easiest way to get into trouble really in a hurry. So the next home we've got is a, you know, hydration and water. So not so much soothing in it as drinking it Speaker 3: (19:17) So I can, it's fun as well though. It was funny. Good point. So I didn't lace you to talk about a little bit of the exercise, but it's made me smile. Just thinking about that. So stuff you enjoy as well. Big, important part of your health with the hydration is one thing, but still doing things, the reason that you can do and you eat and then working out. Why is that? If you, if you can't do something that you really love, what's, so what's the plan B, they're still there and we still need to laugh and get those good hormones flying through our system as well. So at least go for it. Speaker 2: (19:47) Now we'll go into that. On the exercise thing, you know, if you ask doc in isolation at the moment with a virus overview, you know, being on lockdown because you've got loved ones who need protecting. And there is lots of stuff that we can still do at home and we'll get to that in a minute. But this is some recommendations for hydrating yourself and keeping yourself really in a good tip top condition. Now why is, why is water so important, Neil, you explain it. Speaker 3: (20:07) So it's basically the morphine is a big part of our life and keeps us, keeps us, it keeps us, keeps us moving, keeps going. It's a clean name for a porous is important. Straight in the right amount each day based on the weights. Simple guidelines there in front of you. So the simple way to work this out for those you are listening and can't see the slides is North point North three three times your kg body weight. Okay, so that will give you a rough liters. So for 60 kgs it'd be roughly two liters, 75 two and a half liters, nine kg, three liters, 105 3.5 kgs. Sorry, 3.5 liters. So you should plan to increase that if you're exercising for about around 500 meal for every hour of exercise and then an additional glass for every tea or coffee you had. So most people are walking around the hydrated. Speaker 3: (20:56) Yeah. Most people are walking around, they hydrated. And we need to make sure that our hydration is good and that we've got what we what we need in our body. Again, use good quality water and drink regularly throughout the day between meals to treat the required amount. We shouldn't need too too much more with meals if we're chewing properly and eating properly for a digestion and not rushing off food. If you're paying those, which we see with a lot of our, our clients and athletes is that they come back and go, I've got my waters and what you recommended and now I'm paying loads. That's an indication that the water's mineral content is not high enough. So a simple win for that is adding a pinch of good quality sea salt, Himalayan pink salt, perfect into the into the water. And that will make a big big difference to how you hold onto the water as well. Yeah, Speaker 2: (21:46) Yeah. Sorry. It's electrolytes versus water. You need that right combination. So if you're just having water and you're diluting your potassium and magnesium, you know you know, it would have your mineral content, then you're going to end up with an imbalance in your electrolytes and that can cause trouble. So you need to up both of them and keep them in balance. And this is what we see, you know, during, you know, as a, as an ultra marathon runner, this is always the biggest game that you're playing when you're running, you know, a hundred K, 200 K races is, is getting that balance right and get it wrong. And you know, I've gotten the wrong with you times and nearly kicked the bucket even from a potassium deficiency for example, cause you just not holding onto the, the, the fluids let you should be or if you don't have enough sodium. So just being aware of that. If you are paying loads and not replacing the mineral content, then yeah, you need to be aware of that. If you have any specific medical conditions, same place obviously can help your doctor because that can, but this is for the general population. Okay. Speaker 3: (22:44) Instruction and your Walter will will help as well. So not just so lemon will help. Using essential oils is good as well. So structure in the water will allow the body to hold onto it that little bit more.Looking at exercise and as we work our way down, the wellness checks the right type of movement. Exercise is important. So we still need, we know that the, the evidence is there for exercise and immunity and exercise and resilience and mental strength makes a huge, huge difference. So, but what is important to understand the exercise is still a physical stressor. So if we've already got high stress levels, will exercise help? Yes it will. As long as it's the right type of activity. So we want to encourage you to definitely be moving and exercising. But if your body, some weeks or some days it's got a high level of stress, which we'll know from your wellness check, then just change the type of activity you're doing. So we'll look at our work and university on working out, working in should create energy. So this is a type of session that you should create an injury with getting the mix of working and working out, right? That's what we want to, we want to do. So an example Speaker 2: (23:46) Of working in session, you could perform it on a full stomach. So he's telling you already it's going to be lower intensity. It would involve some good breast control. No, my just sparks in heart rate or breathing. You'll be able to move with your breath and you should find it relaxing as well and feel light at the end. The more energized. Where are all our festivals over the years with this is feeling like it's not really a session. Yeah, me too. I have, I know you definitely have many times, but once you get the feel the benefits, then you realize that some days it's fine. If you're having to do a working in session every single day, then you know you're putting these some real risks. But you should find the a few times a week if you are switching incentive session for working in session, your overall energy throughout the week, your wellbeing, your mindset will be a whole lot better because you've allowed your body a little bit more time to recover while still doing some movement. Speaker 2: (24:38) So what, so the types of things that we've spoken about here are things like or yoga or some just scheme stretching, some myofacial release, maybe some foam rolling. Keeping the body mobile and in the all your joints lubricated but not, you know, going for a high intensity interval training that wouldn't count as working in session. Even like meditation and deep breathing exercises as a part of this process. And the reason this is really important and this is so counter intuitive and this why I argue with new for many a year in my mind a workout was where you're sweating your asset and you puffing your ass off and you are out of brace and you are gone. You know, I mean, I was happy with myself. And, and there was a time and a place for that. Absolutely. You know, we want to get stronger and fitter and all the rest of it and get all the brain derived neurotrophic factor and all these other things that are really, really good in hunting. Speaker 2: (25:31) It's fantastic how Eva, you need to balance that with this working in. And the more stressed you are and the more trouble you're having with your, with your body, the more uniquely leaning towards this way and not overdoing the other stuff because your hormones are involved here. And this is a very important one for ladies, right? Especially, you know, we've got some very complicated hormone sessions and you know, later on we'll, we'll get into more complicated stuff like that. But you don't want to be smashing your hormones every day. You, you won't want to be sending your cortisol through the roof because that's what you are doing. That short term when you're doing the high intensity and you need to be controlling that. If you're having a stressful life, you don't want to add more to the mix and end up with adrenal burnout and cortisol problems and that sort of thing, which will lead to more information and so on and so on and to decrease in your immune system. Speaker 2: (26:22) So any surfing these sessions are gold for reducing inflammation. So we get, we send you some gums besides, we will post them some videos over the next week and some examples of a working session because they are just, they're really all game changers. Oh, you type channel or winning? Actually Neil, so yeah, we've got a huge YouTube channel. I'm just on the Lisa tamari. If you go on YouTube, you'll find over 500 videos on everything like this from full full documentaries right through to, you know, working in and working out and all sorts of injury prevention. And more Speaker 3: (26:59) So I'm looking at the working out so we are designed to move and when not designed and equipped to sit in front of a computer in a car or on the couch. Okay. We're really not designed to hunt and gather, not to sit so real. Simply speaking, when you're putting together and this is what we're going to help you with over the coming weeks as well. If you can't use the gym, if you having to try and go home and exercise at home, then this is where we can help massively, but a real simple way to look at it, to start with is if you're doing some exercise that involves a squat, lunge, bend, push, pull, twist, and some sort of walking or running and you were covering. A lot of the primal movement patterns that we used to use when we were in were Hunter-gatherers. Now if you're covering those as well and you're moving through different ranges of movement, you'll be moving in this three dimensional movement. You'll be moving through all planes of motion, which means your body is going to get a good workout. It's going to get a good a good amount of exercise and also you're going to be looking after your your, every part of the body should do that so you're not just moving in one place. That makes sense. Speaker 2: (27:58) Absolutely. Like working, having worked with my mum and people might know my story. Mom had an aneurysm and I've just released a book called relatedness about your journey back. But one of the things like, because she was a basically Bader and from for almost two years, you know, emotionally she's lost all the ability to do all these various things and getting them back. I'll tell you, as I had had, you know, I was trying to treat you the other day to do the twist, you know, the twist that's hit the music going on. She couldn't, she didn't know how the body, the hips go one way. The upper body goes the other way. So I had to teach her or these things. Again, these, we on the other hand, my dad who's 81 and doesn't have the healthiest lifestyle and try arguing with him. But anyway, but he does have a healthy lunch. He's a hot, he's a hot cool. He does have a healthy last start on that. He's gotten in old day pretty much every day. So he's been doing squatting, Pauling lifting heavy loads. He's in funny awkward positions and that makes them extremely mobile, extremely strong for an 81 year old. So even though he doesn't go to the gym and he doesn't do any of those athletes things, he is working his body and all those planes and that's what keeps him strong at 81. Speaker 3: (29:10) Yeah, that's a perfect example when he's looking bloody good as well. So energy, it's on the wellness check as well. It's there for a reason. One of my continuous goals on a daily basis is to get out of bed like a kid on Christmas day. And you'll all know what that feeling feels like, that excitement that, that just that high energy that, Ooh, I can't wait to get up. That's what we should be. And I'd encourage all of you to strive for, strive for that as well. A lot of, a lot of us, even if we get half of that where we're going to be failing a whole lot better than we and we currently are. So check each day how much energy you got, how should you feel? Where's your expectation? Where do you want to be failing because you, with all the things we've been talking about on today's session, you can change that and then put some expectations around yourself that it doesn't have to be the norm, that that's how you feel when you get up in the morning. Speaker 3: (30:01) It really, really doesn't set a standard and work through it. And then I know that if I lose a bit of sleep, but I'm not gonna feel like a kid on Christmas morning over. If I do focus on my sleep flux and all the things we've been talking about, good foods, good exercise and the hydration, then I'm a lot closer to running out of bed. So I'm right in the presence and that's what it should be like every day. So keep the energy tanks full and don't feel one of the best bits of advice I was given. By it's actually by a client I was working with as I was talking to him about these things and he said, do you know what makes sense to me now is that this, the building up your energy stores should be like a bank account. So don't fool. You've got to spend it all at once. What a lot of us do and go w you just go, well I'll feel great today. I'm going to go and use all this energy out and so we'll have to save a bit so that we're keeping to increasing our savings up. And then we had a bit more energy and we use a bit but always, always got surface there. So think of it like that rather than MC in the MTV account all at once. Speaker 2: (30:56) And the way we think in the positivity and we'll be going into this in the, in the near future without they'll call producing is very much around mindset and the way you approach big challenges. We are all facing, you know, an unprecedented time. We've all got huge challenges to deal with both financially from a business perspective, from a health perspective of our loved ones. We were feeling a lot of fear and you know, none of us are immune to that but it's how we then deal and this is why this sort of information is super, super crucial. Cause if you're doing all the physical stuff then you'll be able to cope with the medial stuff a hell of a lot better. If you're going out and you're drinking a lot of alcohol misuse, praised, and if you're not exercising and you're just, you're giving up on each other's nerves cause you're trapped in the house together and all of those sorts of things and you haven't done the exercise and you're not getting the right stimulus at the right times, then that's going to access abate. Speaker 2: (31:45) This whole process that we're all being forced into. So try and change the direction of the way your thoughts are going. Try look for the positive things from this experience that we're going, it's gonna make us reflect on who we are, the direction we're going and they will be good things that come out of this if the do right now is to protect the vulnerable in our society and that means our elderly are immune compromised. People who have had cancers or transplants or have for some reason got an immune system problem that is the ones that we are doing this for. We are not just staying home and protecting, you know like ourselves. We are doing that to protect the people on the front lines cause more we stay home the more we're going to be protecting them and also our L vulnerable hourly and so on. Speaker 2: (32:36) Those are the ones that we had staying home for. So if we can look after ourselves and make this as a time of reflection and a time to change direction and to make us a more caring society, things of value, then something good will come out of it. And I'm really big on always finding the silver lining and every damn cloud that's come, you know, like I've just released a book called relentless and it's about the story of bringing my mum back after her aneurism. And we were left in a state where she was like hardly any how I function. And it was, I couldn't find anything in the silver lining for status. But after working with her for four years, after bringing her back after this, the discoveries that I might have along the way, and now having written the spoken, helping hundreds of other people on their journeys, they was the silver lining. Speaker 2: (33:20) You don't always see it on day one. Okay, we're on day one right now, but there will be some silver lining things. It will be some benefits that we'll get out of this. But what we have to do right now is consolidate as a society and to protect the vulnerable that is that as absolute. So stay safe, I think that's all we've got for the day. We're going to be producing much more content. Please subscribe to our podcast. We have a poll, Costco pushing the limits and I put out a container every week home. Nia, we'll be hearing some of these episodes on there and we've also got, you know, our YouTube channel where you can reach out to us on Facebook. We're pretty easy to find at least the time of or near Wagstaff. You know, anything you want to add to before we wrap up for today? Speaker 3: (34:03) One thing, just a, an easy one. Just to really kick in your cause. The other one, the other things you've got on the, on the list is just around stress. So really spending some time activating your parasympathetic nervous system. One of the easy ways to do that is to is to just focus on a simple box breathing technique. And one of our favorites, which we'll leave you with is, is I'm just simply doing a simple count of four where you breathe in for a count of four, you can hold for a count of four, slowly breathe out for a count of four. Speaker 3: (34:41) Then you hold it again before you breathe in. So you're literally going through count a full and a breath in a hold, a breath out, breathe hold. Try and do that through the nose. Be much better for your personal clinic system as well. Once you get comfortable with it, you can then look at it. Increasing that up to five seconds, six seconds, go with where you're comfortable. But bringing that in as a simple way just to flip yourself into your parasympathetic system each day, which will take more stress and load off your body. A lot of us will be very sympathetic or the moments are high heart rates, high sweat rates, high breathing rates. And we need to just spend some time bringing that, bringing back back, back down. Speaker 2: (35:17) It stops the, the cortisol and the adrenaline production and I can, you know, cause I do this many, many times that I throughout the day, as soon as I can, you know, and I'm a very adrenaline dominant person. I know from my epigenetic type that I am. So I have to like stop every, every half an hour, a couple of hours, especially when I'm doing a lot and sit there. And just do three breaks and that box pattern and immediately I can feel the cortisol drop. It really it has a benefit. So just keep practicing that and use it to your advantage to lower those stress levels so your immune system stays on fire because when those cortisol and adrenaline are high, what happens? It takes energy from your immune system running and we need that Speaker 3: (36:00) Simple breathing. But guys, girls, thanks ladies. There's great is always talking to you. And the other thing they'll say that was, there was nothing else, but I'm going to, I've got one more thing is, is is great at all, just even connecting with you today. That social connection, it really is nice to spend some time talking with ya, with you mate. And even having these conversations today, I can feel from our body now smart a bit more. I've lost a bit more. That's good. So make sure whether that's done in person via face-time, via messenger, over it's done. Just keep it there because the social aspect as well as so important for our health, Speaker 2: (36:33) Social distancing does not mean social disconnection. Speaker 3: (36:37) Well said my faith. All right, let's talk soon. Speaker 2: (36:43) If your brain is not functioning at its best and check out what the team at the light dotcom do now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices, the your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light, revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related to time issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T .com and use the code T A M A T I at checkout to get 10% off any of their devices. Speaker 1: (37:33) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com  

Lisa interviews this week Dr. Mansoor Mohammed immunologist on what exactly makes the Covid-19 virus so dangerous, how it's transmitted, how it enters the body and what it does once it's there.   He talks about who exactly fits in the high-risk group and how long the virus can live outside of its human host on various surfaces.    They also discuss how containing it and taking drastic action will not stop the spread but slow the spread and therefore the load on the public health system so as not to collapse the system and to give those suffering severely the best chance at surviving.    He talks about the history of this strain and our past experiences with it and the long term implications.   He also brings to our attention the need to especially protect `our elderly population and the immune-compromised.   This is a time to consider other people and to avoid hysteria and panic but to take the risk seriously so as to avoid the worst possible scenario.   Dr. Mansoor also discusses the need to boost the immune system to lower stress levels and the need to continue exercising and staying fit and avoiding poor food choices.     These are unprecedented times but with good strategies, in place and coherence from the majority of people, we can and will be stronger as a community.   Dr. Mansoor is the founder and president of The DNA company who specializes in functional genomics and DNA testing. You can find out more about Dr. Mansoor at www.thednacompany.com     We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   www.vielight.com   Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function.  To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com   For Lisa's New Book Relentless visit the website below to order https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/relentless   When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com    For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!  No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Developmental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.    For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/     Transcript of the Podcast     Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:14) Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to pushing the limits. This is Lisa Tamati again. And once again I have the fantastic doctor mental all the way from Canada who has sacrificed and I mean sacrifice in time to give you guys the, the rundown on what the Corona virus is all about from a scientist point of view, point of view from an immunologist point of view. Dr main soar is not only a leading functional genomic specialist and you heard him on the show just last week, but he is also a immunologist. So welcome to the show again, dr. Mansoor, it's, I'm so pleased to see you. I just, Speaker 3: (00:50) Well thank you so much for having me back Speaker 2: (00:53) Then. This no, it's fantastic. So Dr Mansoor, you've written a couple of articles that I've also had up on my blog and sharing it with my, my audience. It certainly gave me pause and it was very much the facts and not the hype. But still very, very concerning. Can you give us a rundown on the history of a coronavirus for staff and you know, how do we get, Speaker 3: (01:21) Well I think not to trivialize or make light of a serious situation, but to start off at a point that highlights something and that is the more of these podcasts and video custody I'm doing in the coming weeks. I am pretty much self isolate and not pretty much I am and I don't have access to a Barbara anymore. So as these videos go on, I'm looking grapher and you know, sort of scrub your, as each video goes on. So that's a good place to start that you know, we are taking this seriously, but to make something of, you know, to, to lighten the mood for the audience members yet this is what documents are, looks like, what he does not have access for the company. Speaker 3: (02:10) So coronaviruses the first thing I think as a community, we've got to understand, we've been exposed. So the SARS cough too, which causes, which causes the covered 19, this, this pandemic. So this pandemic is caused by a virus, by bacteria, by a virus, number one. Number two, the pandemic, the disease, the infection to the degree that someone gets it, it's called the covet 19 pandemic. The covered 19 disease as it might be infection and it's caused by the SARS called to a virus. Now, it's not by chance that the the agencies that had to come up with a name for this, they used that SARS as a prefix to that. This virus comes from the same species of the virus that we dealt with almost two decades ago. I saw ours acute respiratory syndrome, which of course at the end of the day, that will be likely the clinical concern for anyone who gets a clinically concerning infection. Speaker 3: (03:18) It typically is manifesting itself as acute respiratory syndrome. I E difficulty breathing up to an including needing to be hospitalized. We'll talk a little bit about that a bit later on. But the point of this then is this, this is a virus. It's a virus that we've seen the, the, the family of this virus, the Corona viruses, humans have been interacting. In fact to deal with infections for coronaviruses for several decades now. So to the population out there listening to this know that this is not some sort of, you know, came out of the blue monster virus. Have no ever, no one ever knew about? No, not at all. It's the same family of viruses that do tend to crop up. They tend to come from animals, specific animals that tend to, you know, they act as vectors. They act as carriers and ever so often these viruses that we're evolved to live or to reproduce an animals ever. Speaker 3: (04:16) So often as they mutate, they develop the ability to leave an animal host and come to human host. Okay, so this, this is what we're dealing with. We're also dealing, this is this virus, this thing that we've seen before. It's not actually that much more virulent. In other words, the, not to some too cold, but the mortality rate of this virus, the number of people that will ultimately die from this virus is actually, it is more than the common flu. The common flu tends to have a mortality rate of about a 1% give or take, depending on the ethnicity, the country's health factors and so on and so forth. SARS, for example, that virus that we dealt with a couple of decades ago had a mortality rate closer to 10% Merz, same family. The middle Eastern respiratory central virus had a mortality rate that was even higher than that. Speaker 3: (05:13) The current virus has what we, based on the current epidemiologic studies and the data, which is still young, we're still collecting data. It looks like the mortality rate is about three to 4%. So it's not something to Scott that, but in the big picture, it's not something that human beings haven't had to deal with in the past. Okay. Now on the note of that, mortality rates, so there's a virus that we can be infected by. We'll talk about some of the factors of infection that for the most part, and for many individuals, the symptomology, what they're going to deal with is going to be nothing more than the common fruit for the vast majority of individuals. But for that smaller percent individuals, it can and it will develop into something more serious. We've got to understand this. Three to 4% on percentages are averages. Okay? Speaker 3: (06:07) So we take a hundred people, we take a thousand people that we knew that were infected and then we follow the course of their disease. How many people didn't even know, they didn't even know they were infected, they went above luck and they will never know that they were infected because it just never got to the point where it was serious. And by the way, a large percentage of people will fall into that category, which is what is unique about this virus. And it creates a dichotomy. On the one hand, the virus for so many people, the symptoms are so mild, so as took for the person not even know they've got the virus or think that it's just another just passing flu. And on the other hand it can and will kill a small percentage of individuals. This duality is what makes this virus so concerning in reality, because what is happening is many, many people are asymptomatic, they're traveling. Speaker 3: (07:01) And of course until and unless the countries that's countries are now starting to seriously the spread rate. And this is what is concerning. The spread rate of this virus is higher than previous strains. So I'm going to start divvying up these points and we'll address each one of them with a little bit more care coming back to those. So we've got this virus, we've got this percent. I need individuals to understand that when we talk about percentages, there are averages. So the mortality rate on average is three to 4% but when we isolate the at risk group and who are the actress group individuals that are elder, okay so we say 65 70 years old and above that there's no hard line there. But basically those are the folks that we're seeing that can be at significantly greater risk. Individuals that are there does seem to be Lisa, a male preponderance and there are some, there's some reasons for that. Speaker 3: (08:02) We're still sorting through the data without getting into that, which we know without getting into that, which we're uncertain of and we have to be so careful in these times. So only represent what we know. Okay. So it is not absolutely clear when the data is all looked at, whether we will see a greater number of males versus females. Currently it seems that way and currently there does seem to be some indicators as to why that might be the case. Okay. Regardless, 65 17 older individuals with existing all motor, all form, all community cardiovascular disease, so hyper hypertension, bonafide beyond hypertension, bonafide cardiovascular disease, individuals who've had strokes before, individuals who've had cardiovascular events before. Okay. Second to that risk factor seems to be a diabetic individuals and again there's a reason why these things are clustering as such. So if we were to put the highest based on the thin data we have, we would say men above the age of 70 who are hypertensive, who who've had cardiovascular events in their life are at the highest risk. Speaker 3: (09:20) Then we would say like age men who may be diabetic. Then we would say like aged woman in either of the categories and then we fall into a broader category that seems to transcend age. So other than above 65 70 and that is anyone who has been a greater risk. And of course this now expands the population for asthma, bronchitis, people that may have had pneumonia in the past and they find themselves more susceptible to it, I. E. these are individuals that you know from the basis of their physiology, there are greater risk of what hyper inflow inflammatory responses in the respiratory track. And that's a no, that's independent of the age two genes independent of the race to gene if, and this is age a, this is not age limited, independent of age independent if the a sturgeon and very quickly for the audience, the ACE two gene is the gene that makes a enzyme receptor on the surface of your cells. Speaker 3: (10:31) And this receptor has been found to be the doorway. The thing, the door through which the saws called to virus enters the human cell and it's always important for viral ologists epidemiologists to know how the virus is getting into the human cell. Keep in mind that viruses, unlike most micro organisms or other living organisms, viruses can also exist independent of a host. So a virus needs to enter a cell and animal cell or human cells in order to survive. And what do they do? And, and I, I made reference to this to be, you know, if you actually looked at what happens when a virus enters a cell, it's something out of an alien movie. You know, literally the virus co-ops it, it sabotages the, the human cell. It hijacks all of the machinery of the human soul and directs it towards reproducing that virus. Speaker 3: (11:33) And then when the virus has basically usurped, it has basically used up all of the resources of the human cell. It releases itself from the human cell and now you have one human cell bringing forth from it, many, many copies of that virus. Okay, so the virulence of the virus, just how dangerous it can be are in pots. How easily kind of enter the human body. You know, is it something that you've got to go, you know, lick the floor before you get infected? Is that something that you just have to breathe it from a ma, you know, from meters away. So that's the first couple. The second component is often it enters the human body, which cells of the human body is the virus getting in six different viruses can enter an infect different cells and depending on the organ system of the body, you might imagine that a virus that is able to get across the blood brain barrier and affect the brain, the neural cells or virus that can get into, you know, the liver of ours. Speaker 3: (12:38) There are certain organs that depending on if those cells were being ruptured and being taken over, you can imagine correctly that the impact of the health impact on the human being is going to be more severe than other organs. Now, for the most part, the coronaviruses, when they infect the human being and they get it, they're entering into cells involved in the pulmonary cardiovascular system. They're basically infecting the lining of the lung and other cells. Mind you. Okay. Now. So the other components that makes up when we look at how dangerous are viruses, we want to see how easily can it be contracted when it gets sensitive body, which cells are going, are they going into, how quickly are they usurping? How quickly are they using up the resources of the cell? Okay. Compared to how quickly can the immune system of the body attack and get rid of the virus. Speaker 3: (13:37) Right. So there's a game being played here, awarded as being waged. The virus gets into ourselves using a PA cells to multiply. At the same time, our immune system is trying to respond and decorative those microorganisms from the body. Okay. And for the vast majority of people that come in contact with coronal viruses, including the SARS to our immune system is beautifully equipped to stop it from going beyond that, which is tolerable. Okay. No, any infection, it will be beneficial. And this is something that we might touch upon. Lisa. So many scientists, so many health professionals, we are looking at the immediacy as we should be the acute infection. But what we're not considering is this because of the ramifications of this infection. What do we see happening? People are having to stay indoors. People are stucking up in food. They're there. They're afraid to go out and shop, so we're stucking up a non-perishables which happen to be processed foods Laden with sugar Laden with salts. Speaker 3: (14:48) We're not getting the type of activity that keeps us healthy, that sleep cycles are disrupted. Our stress levels are up when we're stressed out because we've got to go and we've got a lineup for two hours in order to get, because of frankly hysterical buying patterns that should not be in our communities. We are doing a disservice to ourselves, to our loved ones, to the actress population. By that uncalled for hoarding and rushing out and buying. Why you creating stressful environments, these stressful environments elevates your cortisol levels. That elevated cortisol suppresses the immune system. Okay. Then we're going, what are we buying? Are we buying fresh fruits and vegetables and no, we're buying canned foods. We're buying pasta, we're buying processors because those are the non-perishables and then we're thinking of a journey where for the next four months or however long we're cooped up, think of what this is going to do to not just the immediacy effect on health of the infection but the longitudinal effect of people not exercising for months and then being cooped up eating horrible foods, stress levels up. Speaker 2: (16:08) Yup, and I mean this is one of like I'm an oil company, obviously we're a health and fitness company and we, we look at all the health suicides we are pivoting is you are with your company into providing online training programs online, you know, lives passes to people in their living room in, in making them think about lowering their stress levels, getting into meditation and deep breathing and all those things that are going to be great. Speaker 3: (16:32) I cannot stress enough from a scientific perspective, from a medical perspective and unfortunately our medical communities because we're swamped and having to deal with the immediacy of the acute care. Few people are speaking about the radically important component that you're dealing with, the service that you're providing. The, the lesions of individuals for whom they don't have to be worried, even if they were infected about it being an overly dangerous infection, it will be, they'll have a flu and there'll be down for the count for a few days. But what they're not looking at is the transients. And yes, it may be transient, but the, the, the impact on our cardiovascular system, the longitudinal impact on our immune system, the impact on our mood, mental behavior, wellbeing. Right. I just read an article just before coming onto this, onto this podcast that in one of the, in one of the provinces that here in Canada, their, their, their, their assault domestic abuse, sorry. So they're, they're domestic abuse hotlines are ringing off the clock now because what you're getting is this ripple effect. Now you're getting people having to be locked up in homes exacerbating latent behavioral, you know, misgivings and tendencies, these repercussions. Lisa, I'm going to have greater societal impacts than the repercussion of the virus. Speaker 4: (18:05) Okay. Speaker 2: (18:07) I'm so glad you brought that up. I mean, I know with myself like, you know we got some financial impacts from this for their business. Is you know, most people at this time and that is creating stress. You know, and this is just an, you know, not too much of we have people. And what, what I've been trying to put in, in, in my social media and in my videos and things is the importance of having honest, calm discussions with each other and being positive about finding the opportunities because every horrible, you know, cloud that comes upon us all side brings benefits and it's like, okay, what, what, what is the benefit of this? Instead of just looking at the threat and changing it into this is a challenge. This is an interesting time we're living we have a chance to pivot and you have a chance to have more time with our loved ones to reflect on our direction of our lives. And we have this world is going and the will be benefits and not to just go into a panic state. And it's very easy to do when you are losing your income and when you're stressed about your elderly loved ones Speaker 3: (19:17) And you know, God forbid and horrible and me to say that I can sit and be a pundit when you know, if I'm not entirely concerned about next months, you know, rental income over paying the bills and that there are individuals for whom because their store was closed or because their day job was affected and they can't. So please to the audience out there, I cannot, it would be utter hypocrisy of me to say that I can understand the stresses that that will bring. But what I can say is this, that regardless of what you're facing, no, that those stresses are in and of themselves further exacerbating your own health, number one. Number two, two, two, two, two do have in the, the sooner and the greater portion of the society that takes up a positive outlook of this is the sooner that the society is going to get back to the operationality that we need to get back to. Speaker 3: (20:17) And of course that that operationality we will find that there are different things. Ingenuity, often sprouts from times of hardship. And again, I'm not trying to publicize from a lofty position. I know that there are people out there, I can't imagine, I can't, I can only empathize the struggles some individuals are facing. But you know, the incredible thing of the human condition is that when we band together, when we, when we show the care that is needed, the and we step out of ourselves, that we suppress that narcissism and we watch out for the greater community, we will find that there will be things. When this is over, we will have inventions, we will have things, we will have a way of going about business that is now more resilient to the next thing that we will face. I will always face these things as human beings. Speaker 3: (21:12) So coming back to I, I really want to emphasize that yes, we must look out at the virulence level, the virus and the, the direct causation, all things we need to look at. But it is so important and Lisa, what you're doing. And in fact, where your business can grow with this, this is not the point of this podcast is to say people more and more individuals, the individuals that are reading books, because there's, what are you going to do? Your home, you're reading, educating yourself, picking something that you see. You know what? I know have some time. Let me use that time and, and let me pursue something that I otherwise didn't have because I was stuck in traffic two hours every day going back and forth. So in gender, that, and then nothing can be better purpose, nothing can be better positioned than in gender and helping individuals. Speaker 3: (22:01) Here's something that's going to happen, Lisa. So when this event has passed, a much greater percentage of our society will recognize, I need to take my health seriously. I need to, you know, I need to, I need to recognize that. You know, what if I were entirely dependent on my governmental institution that are doing amazing jobs on my medical institutions to take care of me, you know, I'm putting myself at some risk. Okay? So, so let me take the steps to improve my wellbeing. So here's the point. Absolutely. Regardless of whether it's Corona, viruses, SARS, Cabi two specifically. If we are healthier as human beings, just in all of the definitions of healthier, we are better equipped to deal with infections and that's a very generic statement but it's a very accurate statement. So now let's get into a little bit of more of the specifics and we can tie them back. Speaker 3: (23:00) We got to the point that when the virus, this particular sauce copy to enters the body, here's the two things that are making this virus. Three things that are making this virus a bit more despite the lower rates of mortality, a bit more concern. Before we get to those three things, let me finish the point on the percentages. As much as the average mortality percentage is about three to 4% that number significantly rises. When we look at the population, it's closer to eight to 10% of people in the actress elder population as we defined. And so of course at that point now we are getting to a number that is concerning our loved ones who yes, they're 70, but that, you know, they've got beautiful long lives. I've lived them, but certain factors can make them quite at risk for this virus. Now other than what we've mentioned in terms of age possible sex, dimorphism hypertension, cardiovascular disease, diabetes of obviously we have to be super careful these smaller percentage of our population that are recipients of organ transplants and therefore they are immunosuppressive medications. Speaker 3: (24:18) These individuals, their caregivers, their families. We've got to be so concerned about making sure we do not expose this segment of the society patients that aren't chemotherapies. And therefore because of the, you know, the real pounding the chemotherapy does to the human body, cancer patients and patients on chemotherapy should also a need to also be added to that ultra protective part of the population. Okay. Now let's the, there there was, and so I would be hypocritical to say that the data is clear to the degree of making a final comment. It appears actually, and by God's grace, it appears that the youth are much less affected by the virus, much less effected. Okay. And, and what's that timeline is a toddlerhood our baby's back in the risk category. But, but then from two years to 15, we don't have those ages. But what we know is that when we look at the broad epidemiologic data, we're not seeing much comorbidities or mortalities in the youthful pay population with the exception of obviously any children, you know, gosh, that are dealing with cancers or that are dealing with you know, individual increased predispositions to asthma new pneumatic pneumo pneumonia. Speaker 3: (25:52) If you are that person, regardless of age, what are these symptoms? A person who when they get the cold or to get a flu, you know, we all tend to have different responses. You know, some of us will get a sore throat, we'll get a stiffly nose, we'll get a headache, we'll get maybe some achy joints. And that's it. And then there's some individuals, the first thing that happens is, you know, they'll say, it's my lungs. I, I get that. You know, I'm, I'm at risk for the upper respiratory bronc bronchial infections and I get the lung pump, okay. If you fall into that category, what it means is individually, physiologically, and actually very often genetically the lining of your, the alveoli, the little sacks, the little air sacks of your lung, the lining is at risk for what we'd the hyper inflammatory reaction. Okay. Speaker 3: (26:48) And so I, and, and this is where, this is where we have to be a bit more careful. Okay? So, so if you know, you fall into that category, then anything that causes inflammation of the lining, the luminal linage, which could be, for example, these individuals would have known never be the person locked in a close back through using harsh chemicals. That alone can bring on a really bad episode of shortness of breath and something worse than that. In the case of the virus. Well, of course this particular virus coming back to where we started, these viruses are entering these cells because this H2 gene happens to be expressed. The doorways, the cells with the doorways through which this virus enters happens to be expressed in the lower respiratory tract and it happens to be expressed in different parts of the cardiovascular system, which is why it's unsurprising that the deleterious symptoms of the virus are exactly in those parts of the body. Speaker 3: (27:49) Okay. Now let's come back to the virus. We said there are three things that are that are making these, this virus and this pandemic dangerous, not because of what you would think it to be, not because it's killing high percentages of individuals, but for the following reason. Number one, ironically, this virus is dangerous because when it does enter the human body and we said viruses have to enter the human body, co-opt the cells and then reproduce it can be so mild, Lisa, every governmental agency knows for a fact and it's not to create a steric hysteria. Many more people than are being tested positive, have the virus. Actually have it. Okay. But that's okay. In some ways they're not, they're not going to have any deleterious health outcome for themselves, but they are going to be the transmitters without knowing they're the transmitters. So this is where a degree of maturity and a degree of ownership and a degree of responsibility comes in where you've got to be able to say as far as humanly possible, did you travel recently? Speaker 3: (29:04) Do you fee how you know? And of course using how you feel only goes so far because you may be feeling Sosa really hold yourself to account. Have you been traveling while you in hot zones? And keep this in mind because the first of the three things that make this virus so dangerous is actually it is so mild, but mildness does not equal the the, just because you're mild does not mean you're not emitting the virus. Okay? So a person who can be asymptomatic next to a person in bed with a fever, with a sore throat, symptomatic and they both cough or they both just happen to Excel too much. The virus in the sputum, which of course is the saliva. And the mucus that comes out of the mouth of the nose. Both individuals can have as many viral particles. The person that is asymptomatic and the person that is symptomatic, so lumps is there in fact. Speaker 3: (30:06) So this is the first thing that makes this virus a bit more dangerous. And it's actually the thing that we're not even talking about, number one. Number two, the second thing that makes this virus quite dangerous is so one of virus enters the cell as we said, and it, it, it has, it hijacks that. So for its own, its own reproductive, you know and goal, we, there are these metrics, what these metrics are, we say for every one human cell that the virus enters, how many red, how many baby viruses, how many offspring viruses are leaving that, you know, when it's used up the human cell, this is where the saws Covey to virus is showing a little bit. If it's dangerous colors, again, not because it was causing really harmful symptoms, but it is emitting what appears to be, no, this is early data. Okay. But it's, it's emitting per ruptured per, per human cell that, that it tie jacks up to a thousand times more viral particles than, than previous. Coronaviruses Speaker 2: (31:19) That means in your Spotium when you're breathing, when you're coughing is Speaker 3: (31:24) Yeah, you have, it doesn't mean that it's any more serious of virus, but it means that it's transmitted ability. How many people? This is huge. Okay. And this is why we're seeing that classical exponential doubling. Now this is what we call the row of a virus R O. So for example, influence a row might be around, let's say about one also the row numbers, just a number is that estimates for every person that has the virus that has it and that is reproducing it and that is transmitting it. How many people do they stand to infect the current SaaS? Coby two seems to be about two to three times as much infect ability than the common flu, for example. Okay. Speaker 2: (32:21) Wow. So, so for Everage and I know get it early data, but so for one person who has a bar, Speaker 3: (32:29) Well of course that absolute number just has to do with how many people they're coming into contact with. But what the point is, is mano a mano, the person with the comes. So here's how you want to at it. The person who has the common flu versus the person who has the saws copy two virus, both of these individuals walk into a supermarket and they're going about their own daily business because they didn't think anything was also ultimately wrong. The saws Cabi two individual will infect almost three times as many people as the common flu person. Okay. That's the way you want to look at it. And again, these numbers may seem a three. No, you have to look at what this happens with doubling criteria. Exactly. So the other, it's 100% 100% all we need to look at is we need to look at the data that came out of Italy in one day, one day only. Speaker 3: (33:26) I think it was March 15th on March 15th alone. The number of infected people jumped by 50% 50% in other words on a document. And then we had 10,000 people infected and then on the next day we had 15,000 people that were infected within one day. Okay. When you take these factors, again, not fear mongering, keep in mind most of those people infected are not going to have any really, you know, trouble some health concerns. But we're getting there. Now the third thing that is concerning about this virus, so we spoke about the actually the fact that it's so asymptomatic but doesn't mean that you're not transmitting it, that you are transmitting are lot more viral particles than previous coronaviruses or other viruses. The third thing is this, that yes, because of the symptomology, and this is really now putting aside the ripple health effects that you and I addressed a little early in the conversation on the acute side, on the direct viral concerning side of things. Speaker 3: (34:39) Here is the thing that I highlighted in my first message because when you add up the transmitted bility of this virus as per what we've said, it's just a numbers game and I'll, I'll tell you how this plays in the U S we have X number of beds per per thousand individually per thousand population. So it means that at any given point in time in any healthcare system, your system in New Zealand at any given point in time, God forbid, X number of human beings can go to the hospital and receive care and we'll host the hospital to receive care from a broken limb because they fell off a bicycle to, you know, needing to give birth to a child, to something more serious than that at any given, all of these requirements in our hospital system are fixed. They're only X number of ventilators, X number of anesthesiologists, X number of respiratory and so on and so forth. Speaker 3: (35:41) Now when you take the rapidity of spread of this particular SARS COVID 2, and you take the percentage that will ultimately develop concerning enough breathing concerns concerning enough short breathlessness, not mortality, just enough. You know, and for anyone who's ever had an episode where you can't breathe, it's a horrible thing. It's a very visceral response. You need care. You need to be, when we look at the capacity of the healthcare system and we look at what these numbers, even if they're non life threatening going into the medical facilities, this is what is breaking the system. Okay. And that's what's, that's the part that I, that's the part that every intelligence scientist researcher, biologist, epidemiologist has said this is the concern, not the concern of ultimate Lee, the severity of the viral infection. Ultimately the percentage of the mortalities, but the ripple effect of when more and more people are infected. Speaker 3: (36:50) It just becomes a numbers game that more and more people will show up at hospital facilities requiring care. And of course at those facilities we have acute trauma care patients that are there. We have cancer patients that are receiving, we have expecting mothers that are giving birth. We have all of these things that our healthcare system on a daily basis has to handle. And this is exactly what Northern Italy experienced. It's what Spain is experiencing right now is what the British government has had to try to say, we know this is going to happen. So we just have to figure out, you know, and they, some of the press releases from the British government seemed very stock that they just said, look, we can tell you this is going to happen and we're going to tell you you're going to lose loved ones. And now it's a matter of mitigating as much of that as possible. Okay. Speaker 5: (37:43) Okay Speaker 2: (37:43) So the, the, the pandemic paradox, the the flattening of the curve as what we want to achieve. We know I watched a video from an epidemiologist who was saying if, if it all happens very quickly, we're going to hit this. We can have a long tail and, and the S. So that's why the self isolation and the that can containment nations as so important. The total number of people going to be infected is going to be similar. But it's from the right at which the heading, the hospitals and the Speaker 3: (38:19) That's that is the critical, that's the break points. And so the only way that we can do this with any degree of in the, and I'm going to say this carefully in the best case scenarios, which of course are often hard come about. You know, we, if you look at how Singapore has addressed this issue, it was a best case scenario. You know, and now mind you, that has a lot to do with the history. They were better prepared than most countries. They took the threat of it. The moment they heard rumblings from China before it even became a news, you know, they acted. Of course not every country has the control population that they do and the resources that they do. But what I'm trying to say is that we can learn from both what happens when the system was broken as well as from when the system works. Speaker 3: (39:07) And what we can draw from this is exactly what you pointed out. There has to be a balance. You know people who have been talking, and in fact I'm so sad that some people have been talking a bit uneducated about the concept of herd immunity for herd immunity to work. When you enter into the realm of saying that, okay, let's quote unquote that herd immunity take taking space. The first thing is you've got to know is you've got to be willing to lose a certain percent of your community. Okay? And you've got to make a value proposition of what is that percentage, number one. Number two, all right? Okay. All these things flippantly, if it doesn't impact you. Number two, for her to unity to work, and this is again from a core scientific perspective, there's several provinces that people are so uneducated, Lee, not talk, but one of the promises of herd immunity is it cannot be a transient population. Speaker 3: (40:00) A herd immunity has to be a closed population. If you've ever population where people actively coming and going, you don't have a herd. What you're doing is you. It's the opposite of a herd immunity number two and number three that you assume there's homogeneity in the response to the infection, but we know there isn't homogeneity in the response. We know that there is a relatively benign response in about 80 to 85% of the population. That's a good thing, but in that 15% there's the individuals with whom they are preexisting conditions and then there's that 10% 5% 7% that is a not really, really high risk category. Then the fourth component of herd immunity is those individuals are not somehow excluded from the herd. They're embedded in the herd. They're there. There are parents that are living in our homes. They are, you know, God forbid, but for the families that have to deal with patients that are dealing with organ transplants and cancer, our myths, so the parameters of herd immunity do not match in the way that people are talking about it. Speaker 3: (41:17) So ideally what you do want to have that curve flatten. You do want to the 85% of the population that can get the infection so that they are been immune after a period of time so that they're longer emitting the viruses. This is what matters so that we can have 85% of the population walking around going back into communal businesses and communal discourse, not emitting the viruses so that sooner rather than later that that that curve starts to flatten flat. But we do our best for the 15% of the population to shield them. They cannot be included or be thought to have the means safely to address the infection. So we need the infection to die off before they can. Again, I'm speaking here in utopia. I'm not saying this is easy, but the sooner we do this is the sooner that we can reintegrate this actress part of the population back to normal activity and not be concerned about them then being infected. And of course not having the means to successfully deal with this infection. Speaker 2: (42:39) So anybody who is in that at risk category, whether it be through having asthma or being elderly or having cardiovascular disease or diabetes or any of those talks of things Speaker 3: (42:50) As best as possible. But then being an absolute isolation is a very little value unless the community around them are taking the steps to flatten the curve. Right? So, so what we need this almost a dichotomous response to what needs to happen. We need to be one can even say a triad response. We need to ultra protect that actress population as best as we can. Recognizing that they will be the ones that if infected can quickly cascade into an unhealthy outcome or mortal outcome for the individuals that are, that are conclusively infected. We need to have, you know, proper isolation so that they can healthily, cause you know, they're not in that office, they'll go through their infection. It's just, you know, it's going to be a few days, sometimes very little, sometimes three to five days I prefer. And we allow them to get through without being properly isolated so that they're not passing it on. Speaker 3: (43:57) And of course then the other part of the society that will never come into contact or hope not comes into contact and as the viral load, think of the space that we're in as the sum total of where that viral load can be. And what we need to do is we need to keep reducing the viral load. How do you reduce the viral load by reusing that which is emitted? How do you reduce that which is emitted by reducing and secluding the individuals that need to deal with their infection and let it go away so that once you're, once you went to immune system has dealt with the virus that is in you. Then once you're over the infectious phase, what happens is once you go back out, you're not spewing it, number one and number two, even if you were exposed to it, you no longer go back into the cycle and then now we have to really a little careful here. Speaker 3: (44:51) We don't yet know the full immunity curve. We don't yet know the full immunity behavior to this virus. Okay? So we have to be careful there. Okay. And this brings up, wow. So, so you know, all things equal for the most, for the most part, when the human body, when the immune system both the, what we call the humoral and the innate. So both these for, for viral infections, we need both antibody response, but we also need our innate T cell response as well. We need, we need all aspects of the human immunity. When we deal with a viral infection for the most part, as we recover, we are immune to that virus such that, and here comes such that if the same virus we were exposed to it, we are now able to deal with the virus. Potter comes into the body, but we're all immune system snuffs it out before it starts to replicate. And before we become spewing engines again, right? Speaker 3: (46:01) We develop antibodies and we develop your immune system is not just for example in viral infections, IGA, one of the major subgroups that are involved in viral protection, but also innate. There are your T cells, there are natural killer cells. There are cells that bring about the inflammatory response. And here we speak of inflammation as a good thing. All right, so, so we were bringing about the, the, the, the alarm bell response to deal with the infection. Now not every virus has such a clean cycle in the human body. Some viruses, the, there are ripple effects, the immune system, we were able to get rid of the first wave and you know, you've got better, but you may not be completely immune to the virus such that if you are re exposed to it, you do, the virus can enter yourselves, can reproduce for a period of time, often shorter, often not as vigorously before we snuff it out again. Speaker 3: (47:04) So of course during that little period of time, again, you become a spewing engine, right? You're spewing out. So we've got gotta be careful about that, but there's something else we have to be careful about. And that is one of the things that is a little bit noxious about the coronaviruses is they have a fairly high rate of mutation. Okay? And so, so the evolution of the virus means that you may become immune to one virus, but then the second or third or fourth iteration of the virus is a beast. All F all on its own and your immune system is not equipped to handle that one. Okay. Speaker 2: (47:47) Nope. Is this like, why are we being exposed to these viruses? Is it, are bad animal husbandry processes? Has, is always affected humankind since time and Memorial. We just don't not aware of it. How are we going to see this happen? Speaker 3: (48:04) It's a question that I am not entirely equipped to answer. I know what, what I know where my strong points are and these are people far more intelligent than me and broader topics. But here's what I can add. Here's what I can give to that question. We've always been exposed to these things. Viruses are there viruses that fine as the original hosts, the animals that we either interact with through animal husband read through food sources. We've always, as a human species been exposed to these. But the one of the ways that it's controlled is, well, depending on the virulence of the virus and those that are affected die off much faster. All the populations were not as dense. And so these things leave animal sources, get into humans and then whittle out from the sharp curve and then they flatten. And then we move on several factors that as you does have to human population how much more we're interacting with animals and what is the context within which we're interacting with those animals from Dame that was simply wild game to now animals that are on them through animal husbandry closed through simply because of our expanding populations. Speaker 3: (49:20) We were encroaching into areas and interacting with the animals or the ripple effect of animals such as one of the major transmitters are carriers of the coronaviruses or bats for example. I mean, you know, there's very few societies do bats play a role of some active interaction with human life. And you know, we're not few societies, we're not eating it, we don't keep them as pets. We are not, you know, and so on and so forth. But as we do encroach upon areas, you know, we're going to start being in greater interaction with animals that we previously weren't as interacted with or we interacted with offshoots, whether it'd be the feces, if those animals, whether it be those animals infecting bats that are infecting the animals that we do live from and so on and so forth. So there is a bit of that going on. Speaker 3: (50:12) A radically important thing here and it's just our new world. We are much more mobile world than we've ever been, right? That's, that's, you know, we're a much more mobile world. On any given day you could have someone literally on one half of the globe and within 24 hours, that person's on the other half of the globe. And this is not to be hysterical or hysteria causing. This is just a reality of life. And it is something that we have to be cognizant of. Does this mean that we close our borders and definitely does this mean that we're suspicious? These viruses have no ethnic bias? None whatsoever. None whatsoever. Speaker 2: (50:51) Okay. This is the danger that I see too happening is as becoming fearful of people from other you know, from overseas or from other ethnicities and stuff. And I hope that the, the society is mature enough, Speaker 3: (51:07) Did not, Speaker 2: (51:08) You know develop developer are bias Speaker 3: (51:11) Any human being or simply a matter on it and really are their hygienists use that can contribute to this. Yes. But at the end of the day, hygiene or all the hygiene in the world, if you're in contact with you, if you, unfortunately, second, you know, through direct means or secondary means are in contact with this virus, especially viruses that can transmit at such alarming rates, you will be infected. Okay. And so coming now, let's, let's take all of this and package this into something that is, as I keep saying, moderated of the first of the things and if the first of the statements, our population, our societies, we need to look beyond the fear mongering and we need to recognize this is not in the big picture an overly deadly virus speaking in plain terms, just in plain terms. You know, it's kind of he or she had, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a violence money. Speaker 3: (52:10) Many more people than think they know have this virus already or have had this virus and they've gotten over it and they don't even know what they had. They thought they had the regular January flu. Okay. So, so number one, put that into perspective number two. Having said that, recognize that if this virus does make it two segments of the population that are at risk, it is a killer or it can be a killer. And then beyond the segments of the population for which it can have rapid unfortunate health outcomes, there is that buffer eight to 10% of the population that if they get this infection, it will not be a mortal infection, but it will be an infection that causes them to require hospital care. And eight to 10% of any society needing hospital care is more than the usual machinery of our healthcare system at any given point in time. Absolutely. Usually it's about we can handle change 3% you know, in terms of times of peril. Okay. All right. Speaker 2: (53:21) Not 10% okay. Can I ask one question? The flu vaccine, the normal flu vaccine at a time like New Zealand, it's going into winter. And I'm dividing with myself. Do I take my parents to get a normal flu vaccine because we don't want a double whammy, you know? It will, it won't have any effect on the Coronavirus, but for, Speaker 3: (53:45) I must admit again, for the audience listening, this is, this is more than I am capable of answering. So what I will give now has to be colored from the perspective that it is beyond my, my knowledge base. But what I would say is this, I would say of course the regular flu vaccine is precisely a vaccine against a strain that is not the size, at least not as yet the SARS cognitive strengths. So the immunity that that flu vaccine will bring about or could bring about will not benefit them if they're in contact. Now having said that, the two more considerations, of course, what you don't want is what you have highlighted or what you hinted at is absolutely a person can be infected with multiple strains, can get infected with the regular flu, be dealing with the health consequences of the regular flu and then get the size coffee too. Speaker 3: (54:42) And of course the simultaneous or additive impact on the human body to the degree of additional inflammatory responses. We have what is called the cytokine storm response, which by the way is what is causing the real, it's one of the real killers for this particular this particular strain. It's the cytokine storm syndrome where because of the inflammatory response, because it came about so quickly, you go from not breathing to not being able to breathe or you have a vascular event because of rapid inflammation of the vascular lining. Okay. So I think what you were hinting at, and that is what I would concur with, if we could at least bring down the potential risks of co-infections during this period, I might say it's a reasonably enough objective that you should consider. That being said, recognize that when a person, especially some segments of the population, when you get certain vaccines, including the common flu vaccine, you do go through a period of inflammation and you do get a micro inflammatory response, which really then becomes a throw of the dice. You do not want elevated inflammatory responses coupled with, from what we can tell, you just don't. And that's why things, you know, something is why were type two diabetes via co-morbidity? Well, diabetics are dealing with an increased risk of what inflammatory responses. So the name of the game here is we've got to be careful about the inflammatory, an acute and uncontrolled, and that storm response is what we've got to be careful with. It makes sense. Okay. So, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 2: (56:40) It's a, is a, is a funnel, and I know you've probably got other interviews to get to documents or in you explain the contagiousness of the virus outside of the human body. How long is it sounds, surfaces. Speaker 3: (56:52) Oh, this is, this is, this is, this is where we and others have put you know, some degree of effort in, in, in looking at these things. So once the virus leaves the body, so in the body, it co-ops to cells, it multiplies, it erupts in the body and of course it rubs in the body, but then it can leave the body via what we understand. Obviously sputum is the major source, those little microdroplets that leave the body, whether it's leaving the body via blood, it's a question. And whether it's leaving the body via feces are fecal contamination is another question that let's leave that alone for the time being. So sputum. Now, once it leaves, we have to know that these sputum droplets are exceedingly small. And when a person is speaking, just as I'm speaking to, if I'm not, I tend to be passionate about certain things, you know, and I've got, I've got my computer screen in front of me. Speaker 3: (57:54) If I, if I given, you know, and one hour podcast at the end of the podcast, when I look at my computer screen, right? It's a little bit gross. It needs some cleaning, but it shows how much leaves the mouth. Okay. For the general person. So we're to warning and we'll get to this, these little things. Horrible transmitters, horrible transmitters. We'll get to that shortly now. So when the spirits and leaves, what were the simulation of studies that are going on? These droplets can actually survive in the air for several hours. They just, they're like little dust particles, you know, being carried along by the waves of here. Several hours. Your sputum can exist in the air. That period the virus in the sputum that's been emitted appears to be able to live in the air before it settles for about three hours. Speaker 2: (58:59) Wow. So you can just walk into someone else's cloud of, of spirit that they were talking to you. They Speaker 3: (59:05) And you are breathing. And that's what we can talk about this containment area. Now, having said that, obviously there's a big difference walking by someone in a park that you are walking open air versus someone in a building of which there's, you know, industrial air flow versus versus versus a, now you get to a closed, you know, I don't know, being a room full of people poor ventilated and of course going into the winter times, all your windows are closed. Your, you know, your ventilation may not be as good as you otherwise wanted or plain, you know, and you know, these times or, or a, and this is why governments are correctly attending a conference that might otherwise not be a concern, but you packed 500 people into a room, you know, and the air circulation wasn't the best design for that. So, so we've got to be careful three hours once in the air, the virus can exist and stay, stay animated, I. Speaker 3: (01:00:05) E infectious for up to three hours. Now once they settle, once they settle on different surfaces, they can survive for different periods of time. And it's, it's a whole field of study as to why viruses exist in the air versus surfaces. Let's leave that alone. Here are some important ones. It seems to be able to survive on cardboard surfaces for up to 24 hours. Now you might ask why in God's green earth that someone studied viruses, COVID 2 on Cabo? Well, all of our food supply and all of the things that were in 24 hours, 24 hours, it seems to be able to survive on harder surfaces. Wooden surfaces steel surfaces for up to three to five days. Okay. This is, if I were to add a fourth characteristic when we said three that make this virus pretty naughty, the fourth would be this. Speaker 3: (01:01:09) It's surviving outside of the host for longer periods than others. Some, some other viruses, which of course simply adds to why it's rule value. It's contagion. Value is about double some of the previous viruses we've seen because of these attributes of this particular virus. Again, that's survivability doesn't mean that it's more or less deadly. No, it just means that it survives and then you can pick it up and then you'll have a mild flu, but then you are transmitting. All right. So, so we've got to understand the transmitter ability. This is the thing we've got to keep coming back to. And of course the more that we can do to avoid being in those areas, the more that we can do to practice the hygiene. There was an intelligent article it went a little too much in one direction and w w what the medical expert was highlighting was of advising that people not wear mass. Speaker 3: (01:02:09) Okay. That's no, we've got to understand this wearing a mask, assuming that it is a mass that has the filtration properties that can withstand to five micrometers, because those spits those, those sputum three to five micrometers. Not all mass can filter for that. So you've gotta be, if you're going to wear a mask, make sure you're wearing one. That ma that meets the filtration characteristics associated with this, number one. Number two, what the, what the medical proof, what, what the, what the expert was trying to convey is don't think that that mass, which is, which is an important protection or certainly by the way if you think you, if you think you have the infection and you have no choice but to have to deal with and take care of, you do wear the mess so that you're not putting those spirituals out into the environment that you're in now, but for your own protection. On the other hand, what we're noticing is people when mess and then they think that, okay, that's it. And then they're no longer aware of their touching, rubbing of the eyes, rubbing of the nose. They're constantly shifting the mass, which of course is constantly putting that and what they're not realizing is the mask is protecting you from something of a three hour circulation. The mask is not protecting you for the two, three, five days of the surfaces that you're in contact with. Speaker 6: (01:03:36) Okay. Speaker 3: (01:03:39) So it is a good thing to be doing, but don't, don't forget the hand washing. You know, I am never, ever, ever, ever a fan of those, you know, Senator re, you know, this time, you know what, no, you do. No, you do. You know, there's a time and place for everything. Right. so let's, let's just, let's just track now and maybe we'll close the miss Lisa, just the average person, if you have to go out, you have to go and get your groceries. Okay. Be mindful of your environment. Try, try, if possible to not go during high traffic times. And I realize how silly that might sound. Thankfully, certain chains, certainly here in Canada, they're actually establishing hours for the elderly, so they're actually parceling out the hours of open store to account so that they can vow and keep the environment and the store as healthy as possible. Speaker 3: (01:04:42) Okay. When you go into such environments, any mindful of your environment, it's not to be schizophrenia, but be mindful, you know, on a, on an average day you were pushing your cart. Maybe you're eating while you're pushing your cart or drinking your coffee, rubbing your, this is not an average day. So still, you know, don't be drinking your coffee and have an open lidded something as you're going about your daily affairs right now. That's, that's, that's not for now. Okay? So avoid those things. Be purposeful. You want to go shop, you say, I'm going, you know what you need. You know where it, you get in, you get out, you try to touch as few surfaces as possible. It doesn't mean, did you call me pleasant? You're not shaking hands, you're, you know, hi Mrs. Jones. Nice to see you and you get about your business and everyone just knows that we're here to protect each other. Speaker 3: (01:05:33) Okay. When you come home, make it a habit. We don't quite know. It's seems that the fabric, the poorest fabrics, you know, cotton jacket or whatever have you. They seem to be a shorter half life for the virus, but, but not zero shorter. Okay. So you come in, dedicate a closet, you know, whether it's in the garage or whether it's at the opiate or at the entry of the home where you come in and you take your outer garments and you hang it up there. For example. Okay. And that you don't enter into the rest of the home. You know what your outer garments and sorts of take your tip, take your jacket out, hang it up on that closet out, nothing else in there. The next time that you're gonna use it, all things equal. That seems that the virus isn't gonna survive that long. Speaker 3: (01:06:21) Getting yourself to a washroom, wash your hands. Ideally, you know, just you'll know to what extent you've been exposed to the environment. And ideally, ideally, again, not trying to increase wastage here and water load. Ideally to the extent that you are out there, to the extent of what environment that you out there. You may be take your clothes and you put it into the washer, right? But, but, but you know, if you knew, do you in and out, you had an outer garment. That's the only thing you need to hung up. That should be perfectly fine. What is the end point of this? The end point of this is we do not need to be hysterical. We do need to be more purposeful. We do need to be more aware of our environment and just aware the things that we wouldn't have thought of walking around with an open lidded coffee as we're shopping or you know, whatever it might be. Speaker 3: (01:07:10) Not now, not, no. Okay. You know, you know, and I'm so just being are these things may seem as, Oh my gosh, but life can go on doing these things. Right? So, so in other words, taking these steps do not mean that we stop living. We're just going to be a bit more careful. Okay. We're a bit more mindful, I'm sure by now it goes without saying gyms and recreational facilities are not the place that you're going to be in this period. And that is not to put an onerous you know, to, to, to snakes stifle these businesses. It's to say that, look, when you go to an enclosed environment, what are you doing more? If when you're exercising, you, you're, you're, you're, you're emitting a lot more spirituals and you know, and there's only so much we can do to keep surfaces clean just for this period of time. And this is where you come and Lisa and people like you helping individuals know what can you do at home, you know, what can you do to, to, to still maintain some activity. You can control your surfaces a little bit more than, you know, in a commercial setting. These are the practical things. I underline, I on the line, do not make this something that it's not, it's not something that is a killer virus for the vast majority of individuals. It is for a small segment. We need to protect. Speaker 2: (01:08:36) Yes, we need to protect the bat. Indeed, it's about protecting vulnerable. That's a massive systemic approach that we have to ha

Get the featured cocktail recipes: Sazerac Twist This epi is all about twinkling stars that make a huge impact. It’s all about, Lisa Martin. Yes, she is the Founder & CEO of Embrace Communications. Yes, she started her first firm 20 years ago when women were required to wear pantyhose to the office. And yes, she did it all while making sure volunteering and doing good were a priority. Her journey of success is tied directly into her efforts of always giving back. Yes, her journey quite audacious.   For Lisa, generosity starts in the home. So, it makes sense that the same sense of generosity went on to become the foundation to her professional success. As she made more time for “good works,” more good things happened for her and her growing business. Proof that the more you give, the more you stand to gain. It’s always nice to hear a good guy can finish first. Feeling inspired? Then head over to our library of libations and find another recipe to make your own. Don't forget to subscribe, download and review to share your thoughts about the show!

Dr. Mohammed is the Founder and President of ManaGene considered one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomics space.   In August 2018, ManaGene merged with Youtrients (www.youtrients.me) to form a new company known as The DNA Company. The DNA Company represents the evolution of functional genomics and is focused solely on the optimization of human health and performance.   Dr. Mohammed is widely regarded as a pioneer in medical genomics and has been the recipient of multiple academic and industry awards. He is the holder of several patents in the general fields of molecular diagnostics and genomics research and is one of the most sought-after national and international conference speakers in the genre of personalized medical genomics. In this interview, Lisa and Dr. Mansoor dive deep into the power that lies in understanding your unique genes to change the outcome of your health.   Some take the fatalistic view that if you have a bad gene or combination of genes you are powerless against them so it's best not to know but nothing could be further from the truth. Understanding your genes through DNA testing is like getting the user manual to your body and learning how best to care and treat it. The granularity with which you can start to understand processes and how these affect you and how you impact these is astounding.   This s actionable knowledge that will help you make informed decisions regarding your health in such areas as your hormones, your cardiovascular risk factors, your methylation, your detoxification processes and even your mood and behavior, why for example some have a tendency to more problems around depression or PTSD than others.    Never before in the history of the human species have we had such deep insides into the way our intricate and complex bodies work.    This episode is set to blow your mind and the work of Dr. Mohammed and his team is set to change the future of the world's health. We have the opportunity for the first time to take control of our own destinies rather than falling victim to our genes through a lack of knowledge.   Once you start to see and understand the power of functional genomics you won't be able to go back to the way you understood yourself and your body before. Your level of self-acceptance and the ability to help yourself heal and be healthy and whole will be taken to a whole new level.   If you would like to get your hormones or your whole genomic profile tested you can find out more at www.thednacompany.com    We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   www.vielight.com   Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function.  To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com   For Lisa's New Book Relentless visit the website below to order https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/relentless   When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com    For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!  No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Developmental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.    For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/     Transcript of the Podcast   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Hey team. We're this week I have an absolutely superstar, the world's number one leading functional genomic specialists, Dr. Mohammed from Toronto and Canada. Dr Mansoor, Mohammed has two guests now. He is a scientist and entrepreneur in the field of genomics and is regarded as one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomic space. Dr Mohammed is a PhD and president and scientific officer at the DNA company and is really considered to be a pioneer medical genomics. He's a classically trained molecular immunologist who has received academic and industry awards, published numerous papers and holds patients in the general fields of molecular diagnostics in genomics. Now functional genomics is about understanding the DNA and how it behaves in every definition and this Dr. Mentor was very different than many of the other DNA companies that I've looked at recently and that he doesn't just look at the single litters, if you like, of the DNA, but it looks in combinations of genes. Speaker 2: (01:22) And how they're playing out. And this makes him very, very different. This, he sees DNA like a language rather than a vocabulary and language that has grammar, sentence structure, Syntex and nuances. And you've got to be able to read genetic structure at the holistic level. Now I'm super excited about document's all his work and I'm studying functional genomics at the moment and it is the next level in personalized health. I'm really, really excited to bring this interview to you. It's taken me months to get documents or on this podcast and I'm hoping later on the year to get Dr. Mansoor Down to New Zealand for a lecture tour to speak to functional medicine practitioners down here as well as the public. So if you'd like to know more about that, please reach out to me and let me know. I'm just like to remind you before I hand over to Dr. Mansoor that my book launch is happening just next week over the time of this recording is the 6th of March and on the 11th of March. Speaker 2: (02:26) So by the time this recording actually comes out, my book will be live. It's called relentless and it tells the story of bringing my mum back after a major aneurism myth. You're fighting for a life and lift her in and basically not much over a vegetative state. Massive brain damage at the age of 64 and what I did to beat all the odds and bringing my mum back to health, all of the CRPS I used, the protocols, the attitude, the mindset, the obstacles that we had to overcome, the problems that I've discovered in our medical system in on it goes. So this book is really, I'm, I'm so pleased to be able to bring it out. It's taken me two years to get this together and to bring it to the public, but I really want to pay it forward and I want to help thousands and thousands of other people facing difficult challenges to take them are hit on with the right mindset to overcome great obstacles. Speaker 2: (03:18) So if you'd like to check that out, we can head over to my website. I have Lisatamati.com Hit the shop button and you'll see all of my books there and my jewelry collections. But make sure you check out the neatness. It's really going to be worth a read for anyone who has major medical problems at the moment. Or of course anyone who has a stroke aneurysm Alzheimer's dementia, and wants to know about brain rehabilitation or optimizing your brain function and who isn't interested in that as well as the whole mental attitude and mindset that it takes to do all this. So without further ado, over to Dr. Mansoor Mohammed. Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again. Now I am just grinning from ear to ear. I can't stop smiling because I've been waiting for this interview for weeks. I have a very, very special guest, Dr. Mansoor Mohammed, all the way from Toronto in Canada. Dr. Mansoor How are you going? Speaker 3: (04:17) I am great, Lisa. And likewise, it's been something that I've been looking forward to, to the audience. Please forgive me. I'm a little bit sleepy from Jeff blog from last night, but Lisa has been pumping me up and so we're going to have some fun of this Speaker 2: (04:31) Now. I know what it's like when you're a little bit jetlagged and you have a main very much in demand. So I'm just so excited to have a little bit of time with you now. Dr Mansoor, I do the whole introduction on a separate recording, but dr Mansoor, can you give us a little bit of background about your what you did your PhD in your, your, a little bit of a brief history of your back. Speaker 3: (04:55) Sure. genes. Genetics has always have always been my love. The study of how this operating manual, just just thinking, just, just dialing it back and thinking that the human being, we've got this operating manual that by every definition of the word it behaves like an operating manual. And to think that it's there and to think that one date might be accessible and that we could read this and we could read it intelligently and just simply understand myself much less, much less. Anyone else has always been my love. And so I started, my PhD is in applied molecular genetics and immunology. So I was looking at the genetics of the immune system. I was very, very fortunate to have an awesome mentor. She was then the chair of molecular biology at UCLA invited me to UCLA. So I had an awesome couple of postdocs there where I got deeper and deeper involved in eugenics. Speaker 3: (05:47) But a real pivotal point happened when I was done, invited to come to Baylor college of medicine and Houston, Texas. And it was that heavy time just about the human genome project, its, you know, sort of pinnacle. And I was asked because of the work that I had been doing with UCLA to come over to Baylor and start a company, the goal of this company was to begin looking at multiplex genomics. In other words, to really do the, you know, the barrage searches into the human genome. Not one gene at a time, but looking at the entire genome in pathway type manners. Now initially we applied this knowledge to cancers. We apply this knowledge to developmental disorders syndromes, Prader, Willi syndrome, autistic spectrum disorders and so on and so forth. And about 15 years ago, after many years of doing what I call disease genomics, looking at the operating manual, looking at when the operating money was broken out of what happens from a disease perspective. Speaker 3: (06:45) Then I sort of thought, okay, well that was fun. That was good. That was, but why should I not look at the operating manual? But nothing is purportedly broken, but just the operating manual. So then still we can tell presumptively healthy individuals how to stay healthy or how to get over the type of chronic illnesses. So this is what I've been doing for the last 15 years, studying, researching and applying the knowledge of the human genomic operating manual. So we've been, we can just simply understand it. How does the body work, which clearly there's an individuality to that, obviously. I mean, we are human beings. We all, our cells, our organs, our bodies, all have to accomplish the same jobs that we do. These jobs with nuance differences, some of us less optimal, more optimal, more efficient, less efficient. And when we can zone into that, when we can read this operating manual from that perspective, really Lisa miracles happened with the sort of insights that you get, the nuances that you can tease out. It really has transformed the clinicians. We train the patients, we work with the transforms, it empowers the individual to understand how their body works and what they might do to obtain that optimal health. Speaker 2: (07:59) This is, and this is a super exciting and I can feel your passion coming through despite the jet lag for this area and it's now mind you, passion is of the last maybe two months or six weeks or however long it is now that I've been diving into this world and just going, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, this is just, this is just the next level and the information that I've been searching for to try to understand because everything seems so generic. And this a personalized house and yeah, doctor man saw you the president and founder of the DNA company, which is offering direct to public and in conjunction with conditions. A couple of reports. So our full genomic report in a hormone report and I want to tease apart a little bit today, why should people even consider having a look at these, the sort of testing what benefits they can get out of it. Speaker 2: (08:58) And I'd like to also tease a little bit about looking at other, like I've, I've looked at a lot of gene companies and that do gene DNA testing. And you had an analogy on a Bulletproof radio that I heard you on the same show who's amazing Dave and his work that was about the most people are looking at it DNA as a vocabulary and not a language. And that just seems them light bulb up in my head where I realized, okay, so it's not the siloed genes looking at them individually, but looking at cascades and pathways and combinations of genes as we are then interpretation has been missing today. Speaker 3: (09:43) Oh, 100%. So I always say, you know, Lisa, anyone that is in the data business, regardless of whatever data you're collecting, data is really quite dumb. Data in and of itself doesn't mean anything unless you know what to ask of the data unless you know how to triage, how to approach the data. So when we use the analogy as DNA, the operating manual, the genome, it really meets all the classifications and descriptions of a language. Thus far we've been looking at DNA and genetics from a language perspective purely as a vocabulary exercise. The more words we know, the better we presume to think we know the language. And as much as that is important as per the analogy that I drew with on Dave, show a person simply knowing more vocabulary by no means mean they understand the language. And so when it comes to DNA, when it comes to genetics, when it comes to how this awesome operating manual, the architecture of it, it's not just about vocabulary, it's not just about the individual genes. Speaker 3: (10:51) So here are the two layers implicit in your question that we do a bit differently and why we need to do that differently and why it's important that it's done this way. The first is this. When you're looking at the DNA, if the person are either genetic makeup, the vast, vast majority of companies right now, they're looking at things called snips, single nucleotide polymorphisms. In other words, they're looking at places which is absolutely important. They're looking at spelling variations in this operating manual. And of course these spelling variations, these single nucleotide polymorphisms will impart to you mean Jane, Paul, Peter, the same cellular job that we all want to do. These spelling differences can impact the efficiency with which we do that job and that is important to know, but while we're at that point of spelling, you see per any language, if I wrote a paragraph, I might have spelling errors in that paragraph, but there are examples where I may have inadvertently deleted a sentence or deleted a couple of sentences in that paragraph. Speaker 3: (12:00) Now, if the analogy here is that the gene is the paragraph, so your operating manual are these 23 volumes. Think of it. Think of a 23 volume and psychopathic set these awesome, huge volumes. Now we're going to inherit two of these 23 volumes. One from mom, one from dad, and these volumes are properly arranged and when we open up any page, let's say we go to volume three from mum volume three from dad, we open up page four on each of those volumes and we look at paragraph five page four, volume three we, I see the same paragraph. We're going to see the same information from dad's gene paragraphs of genes and mom's gene. We're going to see the same information, but when we look really carefully, when we look at those paragraphs, really collect carefully, we might find that there's some spelling differences. Those are the snips. Speaker 3: (12:57) We may also find that on either dad or mom's paragraph, a sentence was missing and I just taught this over the weekend. So I was in the auditorium and I said, okay, here's an instruction that was waiting for me coming to this auditorium to give this lecture, Dr Mansoor, go to auditorium B and to the left door approach to podium from the right side, press the enter button, begin your lecture. That's an instruction. That's a paragraph. That's an instruction and that's the equivalent of a gene. Now in that paragraph they make has been a few spelling errors or changes that may have confused me a little as to what the instructions are. But when I look at it carefully, I could sort of still figure it out. Okay. But if in that paragraph, the sentence that says go to auditorium B was missing at, of course there are multiple auditoriums, all of the other parts of the instructions are there. Speaker 3: (14:03) But I can really be confused as to what is the ultimate thing that I'm supposed to do. It's called an indel. So in our genes, not only do our genes have slips, many important genes actually have places within them that I'm missing. So until we test for those type of changes, we're by no means getting the full picture of what is happening. The third thing is this, not only do we have slips, not only do we have in Dells, there are occasions where the entire gene is missing is show I'm supposed to show up. I got to the hotel where the conferences are and the instruction just telling me what it's just not even there. So here I'm in the lobby going, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. This example is a genetic phenomenon keeping the analogy, this is called this C and V copy number variation. Speaker 3: (15:03) We see because we were supposed to have two copies of that. Paragraph five page four, volume three. Sometimes believe it or not, when we go to page four we've opened up mum's volume three dad's volume three. There they are. We're going to read both of the instructions cause that's what yourself has to do at any given moment. When there's a job to be done, your cell goes and pulls the volume that has that instruction, takes down a mum's copy, takes down, dad's copy, opens up and reads the instruction. Now in the case of a CMV copying of the variation, we can open up mum's volume three page four there is paragraph one, paragraph two, paragraph three paragraph four paragraph six. Oops, wait a minute. Where's part of our five? It's gone. There's part of four. There's part of six. I look over a dad. He's got all of the paragraphs or vice versa. Speaker 3: (16:02) Sometimes Lisa, both paragraph fives are gone. Okay. So the point of the first answer to your question, why we do things a bit differently is we're not just in the business of collecting data for data's sake. We're collecting data. Are you were doing gene testing to understand a process. When we designed genetic tests, we don't begin with genes. We begin in a whiteboard saying, what is the thing in the human body that we want to study? What is the thing that we want to study? Genetics, just good old fashioned medical textbook, human physiology. Do we want to study the way the newer chemicals are produced and bonding and response? Do we want to study how the human body makes sex hormones? Something we should talk about when it comes to human performance. So how does the male and female body makes progesterones androgens Astros? And then we mapped that out. Speaker 3: (16:56) Forget genetics, which is not about how does the human body do that? No, of course, if the human body's having to do something, then it means there are genetic instructions for that film. So only when we map out the cellular, the cellular biology, the cascade, only when we met that out, then we come in and we pencil it. This gene is responsible for here. This gene is responsible for there such that at the end of the exercise, we've got a genetic test that already tells a story. The result from that genetic test is telling you the entire cascade. Step one, step two. We look at each of those genes that are telling us the story and we ask are these snips that are important? Are there entails that are important? Are the CNVs that are important because all three make a wow. And so the first part to the answer to your question is if you've been looking at genetic tests that are only reporting snips, you are dramatically limiting the variations that you and I and every other person have within our genome. So you're missing the nuances that are in your language to clarify the job to be done. Does that make sense? Speaker 2: (18:16) Absolutely. So that actually puts them together in my head because I've been starting this, I don't know, like for example, the GSTT one gene and the detox and antioxidant pathway, one of those types of genes that can be completely done. Speaker 3: (18:31) Completely. Totally said, absolutely. And of course it belongs to super family. So there are multiple G S T genes, but two minutes on that. If you're going to design the human body and you're going to say, listen, one day we're going to make this thing called human being and we're going to put him or her in this wonderful world, but mind you, he or she is going to have to deal with some toxic insults, both from without and from within. Where would you, and you know that, where would you put your detox defenses? Well, they're about four places. If you're an intelligent designer, you would put your detox, different defenses at least in four places. You would say, how and where do things get into the human body, dermal skin, the nose, nasal Bronxville lung, the GI track. Okay. So those are how things get it. Speaker 3: (19:23) And unsurprisingly you would want to make sure your detox genes and the things that you'd want to make sure there's super active in those places. And then you, you'd also say, well look, at the end of the day, things are always going to get past borders inside of the body, their waste products. So then I'm also going to put a detox organ. The liver, when we go to the human body, this is where we find these detox genes expressing themselves. And each of the GST is have sub specialties. Some of them are more important in the nasal bronchial track, some of them more important in the GI track and so on and so forth. So when you know the story that you want to read about the body, you know how to read the manual and interpret, is the GST T one gene deleted or not? This is a massive implication to the human body. Speaker 3: (20:16) Can you imagine the GSTT one gene is one of, if not the most important bio transforming antioxidizing enzymes in the body per its name and its gene and its enzyme. And if a person doesn't have it, literally it's not in mere manual. The GSTT one gene is on volume 22 and if that paragraph you have not inherited it from either mum or dad, you are missing an enzyme in your body. That is one of the most important detox. Now doesn't mean that you're not compatible with life, but it most certainly means you could not be the person who says, well you know what do you have a metals mean after all they're not that bad. Oh you know what, my uncle smoked until he was 80 years old. I'm going to smoke as well. Well you can't compare yourself to that person cause you don't have one of the most awesome detox genes. Speaker 2: (21:13) You don't have a good defense mechanism. And so like the detox is actually the first port of call before the immune system even does this job. So I'm, I'm excited to get my tests back cause I haven't gotten gotten through the reports yet. I'm, I'm suspecting that I have a problem in my GC jeans because I'm a very young age. For example, I've been the next medic as a, as a severe asthmatic, as a child, and I'm very hypersensitive to smells and anything. So I'm like a Canary one C one, which is theta. Yes, Speaker 3: (21:54) Very important in the liver. Key one PI GSTP one is the one that's really important in your nasal bronchiolar lung cavity. Individuals with a suboptimal P one are at extreme risk of early ectopic asthmas. They're the ones that if they go into the shopping mall, you know, the perfume resection, they've got to avoid the perfume resection. Right? Those are the GSTP ones. Speaker 2: (22:21) Wow. I'm obey. Fascinating to see if that's what comes back. And so if you want it deleted into them, we'll get onto hormones next because I really want to dive into there, but just to, to to look at the GST genes. If you don't have, you either have only one inherited GST, one gene, your mother or your father and you're missing the other ones or you're missing both altogether, are you more likely to have you're more likely to have toxins coming in that you can't deal with as well. And then your immune system is this way or auto-immune or part of the Speaker 3: (22:57) Brilliant, brilliant question. Just before we answer that, I had mentioned there were two layers to differentiate yourself, so just so that we close the chapter on what we do differently. So I'm going to come back and, and so now we will take it forward. We just mentioned that there you have to be mindful of the three different layers of variations, snips in Dalles with pieces of the genome missing and CNVs where the whole gene may be missing. The other quick differentiator, bringing back the analogy of a language, bringing back the story of the human body, it's this, and I told the audience this, there was an audience of clinicians in Phoenix this weekend. I said, have you ever read a really good, you know, suspense novel and not suspense novel, the novel that the author's painting the character and you're thinking he's the bad guy, you know, and he's falling around the heroin and he knows he looks a bit shady. Speaker 3: (23:51) And then until or unless you've read the entire book, you only find out that he was a protector or he was something. He was a guardian and words. He wasn't about that guy. Now what the heck does this have to do with genes? The second player, when we mentioned that we do things differently, we said that DNA is really a language by all of its definitions, with its nuances is this, there are many genes, Lisa, where if you were to look at that gene as a standalone and if you was to look at the genotype of that gene, in other words, what version do you have? You think you have either the best version or the worst version depending, and you may think you have the best version for example, but it is not until you look at a completely independent gene that has nothing to do with this gene, that the version of that independent gene wow colors, whether your actual optimal version of gene a will stay optimal or not. Speaker 3: (24:52) Or conversely, whether you thought you had the suboptimal version of a bad guy, you read the full story, something else tells you what you fought was the bad guy was not the bad guy. Wow. And this is what it's called at peace basis. You see we're all concerned about epigenetics, which is important. FP genetics. How are we reading? Are we actually going to read that paragraph on the page or are we not going to read? That's at the genetics, but nobody's talking about epi. Stacy, this is Stacy. This is often, we've read the page after we've read the paragraph. We cannot yet make a conclusion until we read 10 pages later, 15 pages later, something there. We'll bring it to life. We'll color what we read on page three. Speaker 2: (25:48) Yeah, so, so for example, if you're, if you're looking at a specific gene and it has an, that is say the faster for the sip, 79A1 gene and the hormone a kiss guide. If it's a fast one that's not in and of itself a good or a bad thing. It depends on the other things. It depends on the, so that's what you're meaning. So one of Speaker 3: (26:14) The best examples of that is this, the BDNF gene, the BDNF gene, brain derived neurotrophic factor. What are the most important genes in the brain? Well, in the whole human genome that tells the brain how to secrete this awesome thing that heals the brain. You and I were having a conversation about a loved one, so that loved ones B, D and F was going to be hugely important. And how that loved one recuperated from the challenge that she had met BDNF. Now the beating of gene has an important variation. A snip this time, which is either a G version or a version. Okay. TheG version, Jews and George as in guanine is the optimal version of BDNF, the optimal version. So if you're a GG blessed, that's good. You are naturally predisposed. You have the in Harrods, the innate ability to make more BDNF. Speaker 3: (27:13) And let me tell you that's a good thing. Any which way you slice it. Wow. An independent gene, the TPH to gene the trip to five hydroxylase gene to TPH, two gene, which is involved in how the body deals with serotonin. K two has a sip. It comes in a G version and a T version G as in George T as in Thomas. The G version is considered optimal but hold on. If you happen to be GG fatigue, pH two and GG for BDNF ostensively both those genotypes for each affair genes are optimal, but if you were GG for both, it creates a haplotype. It creates a combination that is an act risk combination and it is, it is the negative combination. It is the, it is the deleterious combination when it comes to certain aspects of human behavior. These individuals, when you're GGGG, they exhibit poor inhibition of negative emotional stimuli. Speaker 3: (28:28) In other words, when something negatively emotionally affects them, their ability to kinship, the ability to say, you know what, I'm not going to focus. I'm not going to hamster wheel constantly play that over and over over again. They haven't, they have a hard time giving up that when something gets under their skin. So to speak emotionally, they have a really hard time getting over it so they have a strong imprint. The memory imprint, very strong EMI, emotional memory imprint and of course the stronger you EMI emotionally memory imprints, the easier you emotional memory recall EMR is because the deeper something is imprinted then the smallest cue. You have a love, you have a partner and you know you love each other to bits, but like human beings, you're going to have your ups and downs. I mean it's where human beings after all, and on one particular evening you were both getting on each other's nerves and she was wearing that beautiful red dress and that was the evening that you both said things you shouldn't have said and it hurts the person who has this phenomena. Speaker 3: (29:36) Whenever he sees his wife, would that red dress down the road, everything's perfect. You, you're going up for a birthday party, you're both happy, it rises back up. He remembers that evening more than he should. It brings back to the surface and vice versa. This is that Paul, inhibition of negative emotional stimuli that lead to profound memory imprinting and therefore profound memory. Recall. The point of all of this and the reason I mentioned this is, and we're going to come back to the GSTT one, was to clarify, you see Lisa, it's not just about even the type of things you're looking for. What matters is the interpretation we sell the combination, we are reading the manual, not just flipping, picking words out. Speaker 2: (30:24) This is we have a calmer is well we are the, the apostrophes are this is someone that is what they would be more prone to PTSD Speaker 3: (30:36) 100 that's the point actually and that is further exacerbated based on the no adrenergic pathway which dramatically increases the risk of PTSD. It is exacerbated based on how quickly they are removing their dopamine and noradrenaline via content. So what happens is you begin to pixelate a picture and you've got a low resolution picture and then the more intelligence information you put in, you start to increase the resolution of that picture. You start to get a clearer picture of the person that you're looking at. But to do so, you've got to know where to pick slate. If I'm trying to get a better look at what Lisa's face look like, I don't really be pixelating your toes. I need to pick slick your face and this, this ability to read intelligently. Lisa, I stress intelligently. Riyadh, human genome. Yeah, that's what we do. We do Speaker 2: (31:35) That is absolutely insane. And they've vacations because yeah, I would have seen, Oh, you've got a G G G is good, but I've just understood that nuance, that combination of things. And now I can't wait to get my reports and my family reports so I could because this helps us also understand like the speed in which you are dopamine is processed and gotten rid off or the speed of which we're saratonin tone and all of these things have a fixed on your personality and that we're not 100% to blame for some of our differences. Speaker 3: (32:12) Oh gosh, no. Gosh, no. In fact, what this needs to do on the one hand, it creates the empathy of appreciating, look, this is how some of this is their predisposition. Now, on the other hand, it is not to create a sense of fatalism. While that's the way I am, I know I have found and I have done. The only thing that I've done, probably somewhat unique and special Lisa, is I have reviewed thousands upon thousands of profiles. In terms of my in the world, most of my peers that work at the level I do would say Dr. Mansoor Probably reviewed the most genomic profiles in the world. I don't know if that's true or not, but I certainly have reviewed several thousand meaning meeting the patient, speaking with their doctor, looking at their health profiles and looking at underlining genetic phenomena to see if we can understand what's going on. Speaker 3: (33:00) You know what I found, at least as a fellow, when you empower a person to understand a predisposition, you, you might think that leads to fatalism, but when you explain the functional reality, it actually does the opposite. It gives the person a sense of ownership and then they can finally say, you know, I have dumped with my entire life, I've been this way and I just, I didn't even know why it was that way. Now that I can even understand what's going on, it gives me some closure. Yes, but it now gives me something to appreciate. I can, I can envision how this is working, how my emotions are working. I can now go, you know what? As soon as I see that stimulus that would have got me on that slippery slope, I'm going to stop. I'm not going to go down that slippery slope because I know if I do, there's no coming back for the next two weeks. Speaker 3: (33:52) So what we've found is that this crew all around it just creates empowerment. Which brings me now to the question that you asked about GSTT one and you are, your connections are on point, Lisa, the connection between the detox mechanism of the body. Here's the threefold, and of course it's a bit more complicated, but it's also remarkable. You can take complex systems, break them down to building blocks and keep the acuity. So there are three building blocks we need to look at when we connect detoxification pathways in the body and the immune system. And the, the only thing missing is the inflammatory system. So the triangulation between toxins and immune responses goes like this. The human body's insulted with whatever. It's insulted with the intentional, the unintentional of our daily lives, those toxins enter the body or they try to enter the body. Step number one, how individually efficient is that person at negating bio transforming, neutralizing those toxins either before they can enter the body, such as in the mucosa of the lung, the alveoli lumen, the the lining of the lung, such as the GI mucosa and so on. Speaker 3: (35:16) And so what can we, can we neutralize it so the toxin doesn't even get into the bloodstream? And of course to the degree that it gets into the bloodstream, can we live a hepatic re detoxified so that at least it does not by you accumulate in the body so that at least it does not reach levels that are unsafe. First step number one now too, there are genes, there are whole gene families, their whole cellular processes, GSTs, glutathione, ionization, UGI, Ts, glucuronidation, methylation, self, phonation and acetylation. These are the major enzymatic steps linked to genetic genes that are responsible for bio transforming neutralizing things in our body, okay? So what we need to do is we say, what is the lifestyle environmental context of the person? What are they getting exposed to? I'll be living in a home that has written with mold, are they living and so on and so forth. Speaker 3: (36:17) Okay, step number one, step number two, how good are they at individually neutralizing those toxins so as to not bio accumulate them to the degree that those, whatever. The answer to that question is we're going to have an individualization and with some individuals are better at getting rid of toxins and others are not. If a person is not genetically, innately efficient, optimal at getting rid of their toxins, then what happens? Well, what do toxins do? Toxins cause cellular inflammation, okay? And they cause inflammation via any number of methodologies. They can inflame cell surface receptors, they can get into the cell and create overproduction of oxidants as they can hamper the energy modules, the mitochondria. That's one of the places you'd never want toxins getting to. And of course they can get into the nuclear eye. They can get into the libraries of the operating manual and they can start to change gene expression. Speaker 3: (37:23) So toxins do all of these things. Ultimately, you see Lisa 15 not even 15 years ago, 10 years ago, if you told that a medical conference, there's this concept of inflammation. You'd have a lot of professionals. Well, come on, you gotta be more specific than that. We actually now know that there is a phenomena called chronic inflammation, and regardless of what stimulated that inflammation, bat bacterial toxin B, it's an inorganic chemical. It be it a physical inflammation. It does not matter the way the sun looks, the way the cell begins to behave when it has been insulted with toxins, with exposures, remarkably is the same regardless of the stimulus. Because chronic inflammation has hallmarks that are similar regardless of the stimulus. Now at that juncture, when the cell is inflamed, when the machinery in the cell isn't doing the job that it's meant to do properly, that cell now starts to be like this pulsing red thing just by analogy. Speaker 3: (38:35) In other words, the body is looking at it going, something's happening in there. It's not behaving the way it should. Okay, so now we're going to have two steps. The body now has an anti inflammatory set of steps to quiet us, to bring the cell back into line cause they Whoa, Whoa, hold on. You're starting to misbehave. There's too much inflammation. This is where it's selling the process known as methylation comes in. Cellular methylation can be viewed. It's a detox reaction by the way, but it is a cellular cascade that is radically responsible for bringing your soul from that humming, inflamed, you know, ticking bomb type of modality back down to acquire essence behavior. That's cellular methylation. Now, to the degree that you're able to do that, because suddenly methylation is a multigene cascade, multiple places where things could be not as optimal as we would like. Speaker 3: (39:36) So to the degree that we then triage, we stratify the patients based on their detox potential. We then stratify them based on their anti inflammatory potential. Now, to the degree that we are not quite yessing that chronic inflammation, this is where the immune system can be activated. Immune system was meant to be activated in acute episodes, not chronic episodes. The more you ask the cell to produce antibodies, IgG, IGA is IGMs, particularly IgGs. The more you keep telling that the body pump out IgG, something's not working right, something is there, which is why chronic infections are now very well understood to be linked to autoimmune diseases. The infection did, did not go away, constantly demanded of the body to produce antibodies. And somewhere along the line those antibodies begin to forget what was the bacteria or what and what was the self. And now we just start shooting friend and foe alike. Wow. This is the triangulation that has become now a focal point of so many diseases. Some diseases being more relevant to the whole, you know, things like lying disease. Do you guys have lung disease down in New Zealand? Speaker 2: (41:05) I think, yes, we do. And I think you know we have a massive problem with like thyroid, Hashimoto's sort of autoimmune diseases, crones, IVs. So this is, this is where the body is actually going in overdrive. So the, the original detox genes haven't been able to do their job because combination. Speaker 3: (41:26) There's that one. Exactly. There's inflammation. Yup. Speaker 2: (41:33) Yes. Speaker 3: (41:33) Methylation didn't do the job that was supposed to do and now we're triggering. So there are meta-analyses meta-analyses that show the deletion of the GSTT one gene or overall poor Ghouta finalization has been strongly linked with ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, IBD, strongly linked with ectopic asthma, particularly GSTP one in early childhood asthma. Then of course, if you, if you double down on poor math on poor detoxification with poor methylation, you really start seeing Speaker 2: (42:10) Clinical outcome. Yes. Yeah. So, so if we then we, we, we find out all this about ourselves. We find out we've got either the good or the bad and the ugly. And these combinations are not ideal. Then how, you know, we've got this information now, now we want to know what the heck do I do about this? I can't change my DNA. Of course, all things that these reports that your company does, for example, where it can actually lead to some successful outcomes. Obviously avoiding cigarette smoke or exhaust folk tunes and things your GPS deleted. But, but beyond that, nutraceuticals, new nutrients what can be done to help people. Speaker 3: (42:52) So it starts with, so the first thing I would have to say is we take our reports only so far. So the actual report, we take it to the point of explanation of what's happening. And there are certain recommendations, but the real magic must still come from a trained population, you know? So what, so what we do is through also training a certain class of healthcare providers. We might call them the, the new modern day biohackers. The healthcare providers who are really sniff, they're no longer just, you know, pill pushers. They're looking. So I just wanted to clarify. We take the reports, we explain the systems, we explain what's happening, but we also have to be careful so that people aren't jumping to conclusions and self-treating based. So you still want to have someone who understands the bigger picture. And by the way, that's the second part of what our company does. Speaker 3: (43:47) As per my travel schedule, I'm constantly traveling, teaching people, teaching auditoriums full of doctors who are now saying, listen, if I keep practicing medicine the way that I'm practicing, I'm just dealing with a disease population. I'm not healing people. Okay, so with that minor clarification, now we come to, let me paint a picture, paints a thousand words not to be, you know, blahzay here's what I like people to picture and here's what you would want to picture for yourself. Lisa. Picture slide. Okay, so there's a slide your screen, okay, and a circle. And then picture a circle on that screen somewhere on your screen. There's a circle. Now because you're a human being, your circle is going be on the screen. In other words, this is the screen of all human beings and your circle, you, your circle is somewhere on the screen or what does the circle represents? It represents your genetic makeup, which represents a part of your genetic makeup for whatever biochemical process we were studying. So this circle is Lisa's genomic pathway. Okay. Speaker 3: (44:56) I want you to then think of an equilateral triangle that equal three sided triangle that just perfectly encompasses your circle just perfectly. Your circle is perfectly encompassed just right in that triangle. And the emphases of this triangle are labeled environment, lifestyle and nutrition. Yes. What we're learning and what we're recognizing more and more is other than extreme cases, other than extreme cases, and there are mind you extreme cases where a particular genetic combination was really just a real doozy. And in other words, we're going to see some, you know, with the best of efforts, we're going to see some probably deleterious outcomes. Fair enough. But other than those extreme cases, for the vast majority of us, the spite, any inefficiencies we might have if we find the right triangulation of lifestyle, nutrition and lifestyle, nutrition and environment. If we could figure that out and it perfectly matches, I would circle. Speaker 3: (46:08) This is optimal health. So image, the image of optimal health is when you can find your genomic makeup, your circle for whatever you're studying and contextualize it perfectly within the right for you. For Lisa Laughlin, sir, not for Joanne Felisa. What is leases? Optimal lifestyle, nutrition and environment. Now the problem is, Lisa, when we begin working with a patient, obviously and clinicians with their patients, the vast majority of individuals, they do not know their circle. They don't know what's the economic influence. So they don't, and if you don't know your circle, your triangulation, choices of lifestyle choices, nutrition choices, and environmental choices offers skewed and they are not synergistic with your circle. So first objective of this, did you get that picture? Do you know when people say, well, it depends on your genes, your genes. It depends on how you're using your body. If you are, if you took, if you took five identical individuals, they were, you know, quintuplets identical, contemplative. Speaker 3: (47:27) If such a thing exists in today, the same genes and you give those five people at 35 years old, the exact diet. But if those five, one of them was an ultra marathon runner and extreme sports enthusiasts, the other was a couch potato, I don't know, doing whatever the other was a, you know, an accountant who had a nine to five job. We can exercise worrier, but from Monday through Friday really just goes to work, comes home, eats, goes to that and so on and so forth. Even with the same jeans, you can put the nutrition and an obviously not expect the same outcome because they got to know the genomic legacy. You've got to know what is the lifestyle context, what is the nutritional context, what is the environment or context? If one of the things quintuplets moved from your gorgeous country and move to massive metropolis with, you know, air quality, that breathing for one day is the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes in your beautiful country. Speaker 3: (48:36) He or she may have gotten away with a GSTT one or GSTP, one suboptimal ability. He's living in those, you know, that wonderful country views. He's practicing otherwise good, not eating foods with pesticides and herbicides and so on and so forth. And he was going about life actually, not really realizing there was any suboptimal ability until one day his job took him to a big metropolis somewhere. He lost track of the quality of his foods. He's just so busy. He's day in, day out breathing the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes and then six months into this, all things ELLs as equal, his jeans are equal, but he now starts to show symptomologies that he would never have had any different environment and a nice clean environment. Right? So this triangulation is so important. Now coming back to the specifics, once we understand the pathways, we begin first with the dose. Speaker 3: (49:31) It may seem simple, but it actually enters Lisa into, it's not just about the obvious things that you might imagine. I give the example, Lisa, and by the way, it's relevant to the GSTT one gene. Now, juice, TT. Let's focus on the T one. It's the big sister in the glue, the fine fabric. So GSTT one no, it's what's called a phase two detox pathway. Phase two detox. Because when it talks and enters the human body, we typically go through two steps. We take toxin a, we converted into an intermediate B. Yup. We take B further, convert that to C. C is what leaves the body, the B to C part of the transformation. That's where the GSTs come in. The a to B. This is where your cytochrome P four 50s come in. That's the phase one. Bio transforming enzymes. Now if I were to ask you something, when you say fiber to say, would it be a good practice for person to start drinking a nice cup of green juice? Speaker 3: (50:38) You know, like some juice, juice, broccoli and some maybe put a little bit of a baby spinach in there. A bit of ginger, maybe some cute, cute curcumin at the end of it. Would that be a really healthy drink? Yes. Something I do every day. Beautiful, beautiful. And it is healthy generally speaking. So now someone puts a blog together giving this recipe of something that's ostensibly so healthy and there's this mechanic who works in a shop all day with fuse and so on and so forth. He read this blog, she read this blog and she decides that before she goes to work, she's going to have this beautiful juice. This green juice that they read was so healthy and it was a detox juice and they feel good about themselves. Hold on, hold on. Many of the ingredients and not green juice. Many of the ingredients in that green shoes turn on certain phase one sip four 50 enzymes so as to accelerate the conversion of a to B. Speaker 3: (51:54) Now some of the toxins a that this mechanic was facing in her shop, in the, in the, in the mechanic shop that she was working at, when she converts a to B, we know that the B, the intermediate is truly more toxic than wow. And by the way, she did not know she was a GST one deleted individual. Oh, so what did we do to this young woman? We encourage the things that is that we're getting into her body. When she drove that beautiful healthy green juice, she more rapidly converted her A's into B and then ups B's and to CS very well. Wow. Even something that would ostensibly be really healthy by normal standards. Do you see that's a healthy nutrition on the triangle, but we did not ask what was the environment on the triangle and so now we have skewed her triangle away because her genetics circle, she does not have the GSTT one. Do you get that picture? This is a little bit frightening for people who are listening to this or who might be going well, what's the point being? Speaker 3: (53:16) This is weird. The reports have the super value, isn't it? That's the point. It's, it's actually not discouraging. It's, it's finally, and this is all gold. It's finally meant to unravel those nuances that there is such a thing. Have you been? How many of us, you know, we do something that 20 or the coworkers swore was the best thing since sliced bread and then we tried it and not only did it not work, we actually felt like crap or less healthy, and we, we're all aware of this until it's what is it led? It's led for most of us to become numb. We're just kind of get to that point where we're like, well, I don't know what's right for me or run for me. Plus today it says one thing tomorrow it says another thing. So creating some sanity from this confusion is what this goal is about and it can be done. Speaker 3: (54:11) Lisa, when you take your time to read things, intelligent meals, explain things. That's why we've got these epiphany moments that constantly, I like my consults with patients because I feed off of the energy. When a patient just, you see that epiphany admission and they light up and they go, Oh, that's why this hasn't been working with. That's why that was better for me. That's why I took methyl B12 because everyone's telling me methyl B12 is the best version. But every time I take methyl B is it just in my head. I get a headache every time I take micro B12 I get a, and then I go, no, actually I got one too. I can't take methyl before. That's an actual thing. I can't take methyl B12 because my methylation cascade is inconsistent with me taking methyl Beto when I take a dental Sobe 12. Oh, completely different. Speaker 2: (55:07) Wow. So this is getting really granular for each individual. And this is what makes me so excited. And, but before we go on, we have to go and cover off the hormone report. This is something that I and, and this is, you know, for me and any woman, but I wanted to focus a little bit more in on the woman. We've got very complicated hormones, households, but this was the cascade for men and women is very, very similar, isn't it? Yes Speaker 3: (55:33) It is. It's just remarkably, this is what we taught at the cost on the weekend after introducing genomics, it was the first open to eyes that the cascade, the circadian rhythm with which the human body converts progesterones into androgens, androgens to estrogens, men, we do not have a monopoly over androgens. Women, you do not have a monopoly over estrogens. In fact, your estrogens come from androgens. Men, we have estrogens. It's just a matter of the circadian rhythm. When is it happening? How quickly is it happening? And of course, ultimately how much of any of these hormones are produced. And then the final component is how responsive are you, the the woman's body, all things equal. She's designed with the estrogen receptors to be more responsive to estrogen. She responds to androgens as well. Conversely, for men. Now keep in mind something as simple as, I can't believe how many clinicians do not realize how an androgen or estrogen receptors. Speaker 3: (56:32) Now let's stop there for this cascade. We can talk about all of the things about how hormones are produced and how they're metabolized and so on and so forth. But ultimately, how is estrogen affecting your body? Lisa, you're a young woman. You're making estrogen as if you're menstruating or if you want hormone replacement, there's likely some estrogens in your body, one way or the other when estrogen binds to your estrogen receptor. And to the degree that that can happen, mind you, because there are variations to that fidelity, this complex estrogen. So the estrogen receptor androgen to Stastrom, DHT to the androgen receptor. These complexes are some of the most potent DNA transcribing complex. They go into the nucleus and the churn on genes. This is how estrogen and testosterone impacts the human body. They live. They're not just, I don't know, causing breast development or, or, or, or Andrew demise in the book. Speaker 3: (57:39) They do that by churning on the genes that cause the cells to behave in a more underutilized manner or more estrogen. So the first thing I want, our audience needs, our clinicians, we need to re re climatize reacquaint ourselves with that. These hormones potently DNA transcribing, they go into the nucleus and they turn on and off genes. That is why they are not to be dealt with trivially. Number one. Number two, in a menstruating woman. Now I just told you when estrogen enters a cell, I did binds its receptor. It's not just staying in the, in the Maloo of the South, it's going in to the volts, the nuclear volts and churning on and turning off genes. Wow. When you look at the ministerial cycle of, of a, of a relatively normal, repeatable menstrual cycle, you will notice something radically important over the course of 28 days. Speaker 3: (58:43) The human female body isn't exposed to estrogen at the same amount every day, not at all. The human female body in 20 days only has about a six day or so window in which your estrogens that are really elevated and then it comes down. In other words, what is this telling us from a human biology perspective? It's saying that the type of gene expression changes the epigenetic phenomena that estrogens cause on your operating manual. You don't want that to be consistent and constant across the month, and this is very frightening when you look at contraceptive pill or hormone replacement therapy. So it's most certainly very frightening. That is not, let me be clear. That is not to say that there isn't a place or a time for these things. You know they are absolutely a young woman has to have the right to how she treats her body and what she does. Speaker 3: (59:47) But there is a place in time you at least be equipped, at least be empowered before you make this decision as to a knowing what it's doing for you. Say, okay, look for these few months of my life, for these couple of years of my life, this is going to be a bit more important that I take these precautions, for example, but you should know that to do so indefinitely, month after month, year after year. Now they've got clinicians encouraging young woman not to even have a bleed through. There's no point for even the bleed. So just stay on the, you know, constant level, 24 seven three 65 15 years. How is this compatible with normal human physiology? When you understood what I just said? Yep. Now let's go a step further than that. You see estrogens do what we just said. They bind their receptors, they go into the cell so they go into the nucleus. Speaker 3: (01:00:47) They change gene expression as they're meant to for brief periods during the month. Fair enough. Now, once those estrogens have done what they've done for those days, then the point of it is there's a circadian rhythm. The body breaks down those estrogens metabolizes them by a transforms them so that they're no longer active. They've been neutralized, and then we hit repeat, rinse and repeat, and we start a new cycle. But here's the point. Every a woman, Lisa, every a woman, a man for that matter, but let's focus on the ladies when she made her estrogens or she took her estrogens, because even whether you take it or whether you make it innately or you take it, it doesn't matter. You've got to metabolize the estrogen. Now, every young woman can metabolize estrogens into three byproducts. I estrogen 400 Z estrogen, 16 hours for hydroxy estrogen. Every human being does this, and this is a crucial point. Speaker 3: (01:01:49) Absolutely. But these three metabolites do not impact yourselves in the same way you say. If you thought of it, you've made the estrogen small window. Now you want to neutralize it so that the body isn't under its constant influence. So you want this metabolite, this estrogen, this hub light to have lost bind to the receptor. You want it to last. It's estrogen Ising properties. Lo and behold, four estrogen, one of those three metabolites retains the ability to bind the estrogen receptor. In fact, some studies show it might be an even more potent comm when it, when it binds and it creates this, this common, a tutorial, Leiden and receptor, it's DNA. Transcribing effects are even more potent, much like the analogy between DHT and the androgen receptor versus testosterone. DHT dihydrotestosterone, which is a metabolite of testosterone, has a higher potency binding affinity to the androgen receptor. Speaker 3: (01:03:00) Four hydroxy estrogen is to the estrogen receptor as DHT is to the androgen receptor. Wow. The ability innate tendency of a young woman when she's faced with estrogens to make either the two hydroxy which is considered protective because has lost or the four hydroxy that inmate differentiation is radically genetically determinable. Now, if something as simple as that, Lisa, when you stitch these things together, when you understand, look, estrogen should be my body needs security and rhythm. I do not want estrogen is constant. When I break down those estrogens, I want my body to have had a break from them. And you did not know whether you were four hydroxy dominant or not. If you had a tendency to make more of the four hydroxy than the two and why is four hydroxy so naughty? Three reasons. A, it binds the estrogen receptor, not giving your body a break from the estrogen ization one to four hydroxy estrogen if you are not flushing it out of the body and how do you flush out for drugs, the estrogen through methylation, the comp gene, which is catechal methyl transfers an oops. Speaker 3: (01:04:29) Can you imagine if you were innately genetic info, hydroxy dominant and have the slow comps because now you're making too much four hydroxyestrone you have a tendency to do so. You do not have the enzymatic ability to get rid of it. Now you buy your stagnate, your four hydroxy Astrid. Do you know what full hydroxy estrogen does other than binding the estrogen receptor and Quinones? Quinones? Listen, my God, you're speaking more than some of the best medical biologists that I've spoken to. So the, the decompose into Quinones and do you know what Quinones do? They get into your DNA. They stick to, they are mutagens. They stick to your DNA, causing the DNA to not be able to unravel and repair itself and by the Quinones then cause accidents. So here's what you don't want to be. You don't want to be the young woman who is genetically predisposed to overly produce four hydroxy estrogen simultaneously, have a poor comp, simultaneously, have a low GSTT one GSTP one, which was the thing, Quinones, and then have a poor mitochondrial superoxide dismutase or antioxidation to get rid of the oxidants Speaker 2: (01:05:52) And add to that. You're in your forties or your 50s and you're making more EstroZen, Speaker 3: (01:05:57) Which is a breast tissue because it's not in the liver anymore. The liver organ, at least it was designed for that type of metabolism. You're doing this in the breasts, you know, God forbid. Okay, Speaker 2: (01:06:10) This is where the cancers can come in Speaker 3: (01:06:13) This is weird and just why we have the the epidemiologic rise during that shift where the woman's body shifts from doing that grunt work in her liver, which was designed for it to doing that grunt work in such as breast tissue, cervical tissue, an ovarian tissue and so on and so forth. Which of course the human body, the female body does not express estrogen receptors, the same level for every cell type. You know, when you were, we lobby at nine years old and you could have gone outside, you know, flat chested like any other boy and you know, and then when, when men awe kits and the body changed your elbows and forms didn't change, it was suitable zone. Those are the zones that have more estrogen receptors. Speaker 2: (01:07:03) And this is so this is how we can see like when you're looking at the phenotype, if we can go look like the the the hormone cascade just for people that are listening, it's going from producer owns and pregnenolone's into testosterone's which can sometimes go into DHT and which then go into the estrogen. Is thrown in your estradiol if you're pregnant when you're older you have more strokes coming in which are, that's coming from the the other top of testosterone isn't it? One on one and then it's means a lighter than these three path rates into the two hydroxy four h

In this interview, Lisa talks to physiotherapists, entrepreneurs and podcaster Brodie Sharpe on the science of pain, how pain starts in the brain and how we can negatively reinforce or positively intercept pain and the experience of it.    Lisa and Brodie do a deep dive into the psychology of pain and injury and how to optimize your healing abilities.  They also delve into REDS - Relative Energy Deficit and it's implications for optimal sporting performance and health and much more.   Brodie is the host of " The Run Smarter Podcast" and is an online physio you can find Brodie at the following links.   Links to facebook group: 'Become a smarter runner' https://www.facebook.com/groups/833137020455347/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brodie.sharpe/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrodieSharpe Website: www.breakthroughrunning.physio   Bio: Graduated from Masters of Physiotherapy 2012. Owner of The Breakthrough Running Clinic: Online Physiotherapy for runners of all abilities.  Podcast host: The Run Smarter Podcast.    We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   www.vielight.com   Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function.  To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com   For Lisa's New Book Relentless visit the website below to order https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/relentless   When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com    For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!  No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Developmental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.    For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/   Transcript of the Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) If your brain is not functioning at its best checkout what the team at vielight.com do now be like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at vielight.com that's V I E L I G H t .com and use the code Tommasi at checkout to get 10% off any of their devices. Now this week I have running physiotherapists, Brodie sharpe, two guest from Melbourne. Now, Brody has been on the podcast earlier talking about prevention of running injuries, but today we delve a little bit deeper into the science of pain, how much our brain influences and the way we frame a pain in our minds and our perceptions of it and how that actually affects our healing process. Speaker 2: (01:28) So it's a really, really interesting topic. We also get into a relative energy deficit which is looking at overtraining in the problems associated with pushing your body too hard, too fast when you don't have enough nutrients going in. So make sure you check this out. Now before I go and hit over to Brody, just want to remind you my book relentless is coming out next week. So the time of this podcast is the beginning of March and it's going to be out on the 11th of March. So if you're listening to this after that date, it will already be published. We are going to be launching starting a new Plymouth and we have a launch tour going right through New Zealand. So if you're keen to come and meet me, if you want to find out more about the book you can come and meet me at one of the launch events. Speaker 2: (02:14) Head on over to Lisa Tamati And you'll see the book launch tour and you can also already preorder the book now at my show in my shop. So Lisatamati.com Push the shop button and it will take you over to the box and the shop. Okay, so now over to Brodie sharpe in Melbourne. Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati today. I have Brodie sharpie with me, Brodie is in Australia and he is a physiotherapist with a bent for running people by putting an eyebrow Barney. And Barney has been already a guest on the show. We don't have many repeat these solar shy, but Brody's knowledge is just insane. He has really some specialized areas that he's working in that and I want Speaker 3: (03:00) It to Shay with you guys, his latest insights and also he's got a brand new podcast themselves. So he's going to tell you a little bit about that. But for only welcome to the show. Thanks Lisa. Thanks for having me. And congratulations with the new book as well. Oh, thanks. It's not a Coke maybe know two weeks and I can at least get this baby out, but it's been a rough road now Brodie, just because people haven't heard your first interview that we did, can you give them a quick sort of synopsis of who you are and what you do? Yeah, sure. So I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I've been a physiotherapist for about seven years. This go into my it and now, and it was about two years into my physio career that I started running and becoming a runner and just realized as soon as I started running and went through my own running injuries myself, that I just became a lot more passionate seeing Ramez. Speaker 3: (03:59) And as soon as the Ronald would come in the door, I'd have this like and passion and just want to talk about all things running all like, do you measure your cadence, what are you training for, what shoes you're wearing, all that sort of thing. And yeah, I just was really passionate about ah, getting them back onto the track and seeing them achieve their running goals and just overcoming the injuries, getting back to whatever goals I have and sort of bound a need and wanted to just address that more. I want to say more runners. I want to say more people getting back to the running goals. And so started a couple of things. I started everyday running legends podcast, which was like a passion project of mine. Trying to inspire a lot of people. And now I've just transitioned to a bit more on the business side of things. Speaker 3: (04:49) Starting my new company, it's called the breakthrough running clinic and I'm offering a online physio for runners. Yeah, yeah. Has taken me into then the last couple of months starting another podcast called the run smarter podcast. Wow. That's a whole lot for a to be doing one at once. Cause I know what it's like to start a new company in online especially. So congratulations on that. And you know, the last time we did speak gosh, it must be a year and a half or something like that ago. Yeah, you were thinking about the sentence. It's really nice to see that you've actually taken the leap in starting to transition out and onto your own and then into your own employer and you know, in your editing all the time to your knowledge base. And that's what I really love about you, is that you're, you're constantly on the search for the next and the, you know, constant learning. So we've, we've got a lot to talk about today. So Brodie, I wanted to start and yeah, everybody go and check out the run smarter podcast. So make sure you do subscribe to that and, you know, take advantage of meeting these core people by the forecasts Speaker 2: (05:57) And get more knowledge from Bryony. But probably let's talk about now going into pain and what is pain? And we've all experienced it. Well, none of us like it. Well, most of us don't. There's a few myths that's around, but what does Brian, and why is the brain what does pain and what does the brain have to do with it and why is it so important to be looking at deeper levels of pain and what, what's going on? Speaker 3: (06:23) Yeah. Cool. I should start with like, I'm no expert on the actual pain science, but I have delved into a lot of the books in a, all of the research and I've put together a little bit of a mini series a, my new podcast about this. It's the pain science explaining the pain science and it's hard for people to kind of wrap their mind around because a lot of people get really defensive when a health professional or doctor talk to someone about their chronic pain and say, it's all in your head. And, Hmm. I've had clients in my clinic come in with years and years of low back pain or knee pain and they sit down, they're a bit frustrated and they say, the doctor says it's all in my head, but it's not all in my head. I can feel it and I kind of associate it all being in their head, like they're making it up. Yeah. But that's not the case at all. And we have known for a long time now that 100% of the pain that you experience is from your brain. That's where the science lies and saying it's all in your head is kind of poor. Mmm. Well it can be misinterpreted really. Yeah. Really quickly and well they're trying to say is it's from your brain and it's how your brain perceives a threat. That's when all the pain signals arise. Like you could have,uyou could have someone who Speaker 3: (07:51) Believes has certain beliefs that increases a threat. Well, certain beliefs that day crisis, that threat and the pain signals generated signify that. And a couple of examples I use on my podcast is, Mmm. Like you hear a lot of stories of people of not knowing like that been mugged and yeah. Adrenaline is pumping and I don't really know that they've actually been stabbed in the back or it's just like, Oh, go on too quickly. They don't realize and yeah, I have no idea. It's not until later on when they realized that's when the pain starts. There's also a could go the other way where someone has some really, really Manet pain Speaker 3: (08:32) And okay. The, the level of damage is really, really low. But the brain starts to think, ah, had knee pain in the past. My mom had knee pain and she was limping for three years and she was on crutches for two months. And what about if I can never run again? I've got this marathon in two weeks. What about if I can never run again? And old days messages that you send yourself fades that Brian and the brain starts to assess the level of threat and we'll produce that adequate level of okay. Depending on what, yeah, not necessary what the thread is. Yeah. So to paraphrase it that it's reinforcing. So yes, there's a, there's a small tissue damage, but it's reinforcing the fact when you, when you focus in on it in a negative way with negative stress towards state of being, and sometimes it can be blown out of proportion. Speaker 3: (09:25) And I love the analogy with the, you know, you've been stamped in the back, but you don't feel that because you're so adrenalized. So that's, yeah, it's actually, you know, a neuro transmitter actually dampening down the pain responses. So just a question that pops to mind. They're like, I know when I've had a huge, horrendous blusters for example, right? And you'd stop for a break and then you get back out there and the pine isn't signed for the first 10 minutes and mean it, it's a really possess sort of, I don't know if people have had that experience where every time you stop and have a break and then restart, that's when you notice the does a hundred times more. You know, it's more extreme and then after 10 minutes or so it's like the endorphins or something kicks back in and the pain level becomes manageable. Speaker 3: (10:15) So what's going on in that sort of a case? Can you, do you know what's happening? Oh, I could try to answer it the best I can. The first, the first concept I talk about in the podcast is a context. What, what sort of context do you give? The scenario and I played a clip on the podcast, this guy called Lorimer Moseley. He has the, is the author of this explained pine book. And he uses the example of he's walking in the Bush and he trips over a twig and scratches his legs. Nothing really happens. He's like, Oh, it's this used to watch your legs all the time. You used to scratch your legs on twigs when you were a kid. This is not a big deal. And it turns out he was bitten by a snake and he was in hospital and his a life threatening scenario. Speaker 3: (11:05) Yeah. But he didn't experience any pain until he realized he was bitten by the snake. A couple of years later on that same track and he finds that he clips his foot on something and he's in extreme pain because the Brian things hang on you a, he, he is a guy I knew almost died. Level of threat goes up. And uho he's in extreme levels of pain, but then realized it was only a twig. And so it's what the, the Brian tends to interpret. So going back to your blister question, as you can stop running, the Brian can say, Oh look, I'm running and I'm not dying. I'm okay. There's no real threat. Yes, it hurts, but I'm not limping. I'm not. Um'm still continuing. Like it's not the, the level of threat isn't as bad as like another injury per se. And so the, ah, Speaker 2: (11:54) I guess you could say the level of threats starts the day, Christ and then nice and really say it as much of a priority. I wonder if there's some neurotransmitters involved here. You don't like endorphins and stuff that was 200 or something that it actually dampens down the pain response or whether it is your cause. Another, another example I'll give was around, you know, when I ran through New Zealand and we're doing 2,250 and 42 days at two now. Mmm. And at the beginning, the first two weeks it was just getting worse and worse. And like the pain was horrific in my body was falling to pieces and noon system was going up. And watching all the rays. And it got to a point where I just had absolute rock bottom and I didn't think I could continue, but I did continue. When I did continue, I actually, we back up the other side. Speaker 2: (12:39) I actually got stronger and stronger and it was almost like the body's way of going, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You're over. You know your apps that you're going to kill us, so I'm going to throw everything at you to stop. And then you didn't stop. So it went like, shit, we've got to get on with it. And we've been dealing with it and you actually got better and stronger. And I've heard that phenomenon from other ultra runners who've done thousands of kilometer races that that's what happens. And actually gets, goes really down to the rock bottom. And then if you don't stop at sea, it comes back up. And you see it even an ultra marathons where you think you're at the end and then you, you keep pushing on somehow slowly, you know, groveling your way forward and then all of a sudden you back, you know, and you don't know why or how or, or, and that's not just a pain thing, but it's more of a,uan energy thing as well. Speaker 2: (13:31) But it is bizarre. Had a body like we, when it perceives a threat, sorry, I say an example when I'll stop. I promise I'll stop giving examples, but let's say an example is every, almost every major race that I've done where it's been a big steering horrifying, these threatening rice if you liked, you know, 200 K or something like that. The days ahead of the race, I, I seem to always end up with either an injury, a cold or something happens in the end up not being in good shape. I think it's the body's knowing this battle is coming in. It's trying to stop you from actually standing on the start line, if that makes sense. Do any way you it teams to be a nonevent. It's like the body is faking it. Just try and stop you actually taking on this because it sees it as a threat and knows a threat is coming. Speaker 2: (14:32) Yeah. I think when I was talking about the pain science side of things, I tended to stay, I guess I didn't cover the endorphin side, like in the heat of the moment type of pain because that's definitely a science that is proven and shown that if you have these endorphins they can get you through these like a really intense moments. Insurance athletes. I just have another mindset that is far beyond what anyone else can experience. But it's funny that you have that story because if it's a really long endurance rice and you're doing month's wakes, so like days and days of these intense exercise, your body's going to think, not ready for this. Let's start. Yeah. Giving out signals for the body to slow down because this is a threat, right? As soon as you go through that dip and you sort of see the other side has gone through its shock and it's almost like you're convincing it, yeah, we can do this. Speaker 2: (15:36) Let's, let's go do this. Then there's definitely these peaks and troughs in those troughs usually come at like the halfway point where you lock audits, don't know if I can do this, but then when your mind is so strong, yeah, you're like, no, I don't care how bad we're feeling. We're doing this. The body's like, okay, let's do it. And so, Mmm. Stop prioritize other things rather than pain and say, okay, let's do what we can to get through this. Yes, I really believe that. So I mean, this is transgressing from just purely a painting, but also, you know, and that whole mindset thing and when you go in it, you know, same with the story with my mom. When you go all in and when you have an open mind to the possibilities of therapies outside of what you know, you were told as possible. Speaker 2: (16:22) And this is the issue that I have with doctors taking away people's hope or giving people terminal Tim prognosis. You know, you've got terminal cancer and you're going to die in three months. Well, you've just bloody he and did before by sick late because you, you, you've seen that seed in the, in the brain in and that becomes a reality. You're like, it's a self fulfilling prophecy often. And there've been examples of this where people, you know, subsequently died within the time frame they've done the autopsy and there's nice no cancer misdiagnosis off that or something. And people go, well, why did they die in that timeframe? Because you've set your mind onto something and whatever you believe. And so one of the things that, with this book is that I want people to understand that either even when the doctors is telling you there is no way you have to, if you want to chance it, success, you have to go all in and ignore the naysayers completely. Speaker 2: (17:23) Whether they have a scientific point or not, you know whether they're actually correct or not. If you want a chance at beating the odds, then you have to go in with an attitude of not, not listening to that. Absolutely rejecting that I'm doing it my way and this is why we going because only thing do you have a tiny chance of actually making it. That's not the same. You will make it but then is to say that you have a chance because your mind is at least going on that road and you'll see things, you will learn things, you will find things that you wouldn't otherwise find. And one of the problems that I've, you know, cause I work now with a lot of people with brain injuries of nature or Alzheimer's or things that it's icing pretty major going nicely in. The problem they have with a lot of people is they don't in to what I'm saying 100% and they don't have an open mind and they have that. Speaker 2: (18:16) I'll try it attitude and then try it. Attitude is never ever going to get you there. Not with something as major as what, you know, when you're dealing with a mess of running a vein or a mess of healthy, you have to be, I'm going all in and my mind is open and I'm taking all this information and I'm going to price this as that and I'm going to actually be proactive. And if you go on, you know with a halfhearted attitude towards it, you don't have a show, you know, because we are talking about beliefs as well, like whatever you believe is what the brain is going to perceive. And so if you go in half-heartedly, that's not shifting your belief at all. It's I'll still believe my old thing. Yes, this one a try. It's not shifting any of that belief and you won't be successful. Speaker 2: (19:07) And I, and I've seen this time and the time of the game with the people and I can almost predict who are the ones that are going to have at least some level of success because they're all then that, you know, if you tell me to jump and put a Karen up on eyes, I'll do it because they are all in on the process in. And it's not about even what therapies are you doing or what are you, what are you achieving? It's the mindset first, go in with an approach into any challenge that you're facing in pain. And the hard thing with pain is that it's so intense, you know, and it's so immediate. I've been in situations, you know, I've had incredible create a big bad pain with a few of the health issues that I've dealt with. Without going into the details where I was, you know, trying to mobilize all my mental power to control the pain and was still unable to, you know, I was still unable head to get morphine shot or whatever for it to go. Speaker 2: (20:06) But the mass boy to get in there, like when you've got an acute pain happening and you're trying to breathe through it and you're trying to, you know, you see the ladies and giving birth and they're told to just breathe and relax and it sounds so ridiculous. But the more you fight it worse it actually is. And that's what they're trying to portray. But it isn't as easy as just, Oh well, you know, I'll take myself off to a happy place and it'll go away. I wish it was that easy, but it isn't quite that easy with intense, really intense finds at least. So what else can you tell us about the pain? You said fear plays a part, you previous experience plays apart. The context that you associate around this pain by a major Norman most Mosely or Mosely. Was it hard to say? I know I saw his Ted talk on that and actually I've seen it to my brother who was dealing with some back injury issues. And I think that was, that was really gold, you know? Yeah. And you thought that the snake was like, so it is already good. Thing. Okay. So anything else you want to add onto the painful session? Speaker 3: (21:24) Yes. If we're talking about beliefs and if someone does have a running injury, I ask people to have a, a good self reflection of what beliefs you have held onto. Because I say a lot of injured runners and especially those ones who have multiple running injuries or really chronic running injury, they have certain beliefs. They'll say, ah my health professional in the past has said that I have one leg longer than the other and my glutes on the left side doesn't fire right. And my hips go out of line. If I run 10 Ks and I just need to readjust that and stop firing up my glutes again, I don't know how, I don't know how to activate my glutes, but they're just not working right now. And my fate collapse and all this sort of stuff. And it's this extremely disempowering belief that they have. Speaker 3: (22:19) And how are they meant to thrive if they keep fading that Brian with these beliefs? As soon as I go for run, the Brian's going to be like, but why you have a one leg longer than the other? And those messages will stop fading the body and they will start arising as like I said, it's really, really disempowering. And if you play yourself victim to those beliefs, you just going to continuously have these injuries and it's not until you shift your focus and all those things I mentioned these leg length discrepancies and hips out align, there's no, you like science around that. If you have a one centimeter leg length discrepancy, it's not going to affect you by mechanics or what's firing or anything. There is science. Once you get beyond 20 mil leg length discrepancy, that's when it comes Flowly start to yeah, change of biomechanics. But it's extremely rare that someone has that level of discrepancy. It's like usually a couple of mail here and there. And so really what those beliefs, you give yourself a, has some self reflection and say if, what if the beliefs you have, if they really, really serving you or if they're hitting in the other direction. Speaker 2: (23:30) They definitely are. And then I kind of agree with you more and things like, you know, I'm an aesthetic need for our current run. You know, the amount of times that I've heard that. And it's like, do you want to seek an ominous meadow? I know lots of other rest medics who run and we, you know, like as a child with severe asthmatics, when you, when you, when you program that, that means I cannot do this. That's when you're going to limit yourself as into your potential. And on the other, the other extreme, you know, I've seen people with crazy injuries doing crazy things like, you know there's one league running for Steve's belly or a blind person running across the Sahara and Morocco or a person with model's crisis going across the desert on crutches cause they couldn't run anymore. You know, like it is up to you as to what you believe and how you think that they can be dealt with. Speaker 2: (24:21) And you know, one of the, the areas of study that I'm that we do an air company called epigenetic testing and it looks at the different phenotypes and health types of people. And there are certain people and within the, you know, the, the differences of human con isn't like a, there's six different health types and these are a broad overview and there are a couple that have a heightened sensitivity to neuro pain and sensitivity to the environments and seminars. So these are what they call people who are st sores, which are usually very a lot of the development we know are an embryo went into the nervous system development. So they're very brain and nervous system focused and they're very sensitive to the environment into they feel pain more intensely. They are reactive more than they are environment. Speaker 2: (25:19) They usually very slim eco, more body types. And they've usually very much in the O'Brien, very cognitive, like very big thinkers. And, and they have a tendency more to be, to feel the pain than say someone who is like an activator, which is another of the types in there. The short, muscular body types, very good coordination, very athletic, and they are dominant hormone is adrenaline in the adrenal and means that they can withstand more pain because they have more adrenaline going through the system. Now it has other disadvantages by having so much adrenaline. But they don't, they're not as sensitive to the pain. Well, they don't experiences it as intensely in someone over have a sense or makeup who's you know, more a similar but hard to explain but limit the sensory overload very quickly. So I think there's some gene genetic reasons why people, some people feel it more than other people as well. Speaker 2: (26:24) And again, this comes down to the whole chemical makeup and the dominant hormones and the dominant neurotransmitters that we have running through our bodies to how much we will experience pain and other, other areas as well. So it really, really fascinating talk next time. Yeah, absolutely. Another thing on the fee on the injury side, you know, like again, working with someone who has a back injury and they definitely have a mechanical back injury lessons, couple of disks that are, that are than a bulging and so on. But I'm convinced that the pain is not only from the back injury because I've had that for years that it's suddenly intensified. And I think there's a lot to do with other health issues going on and that's exacerbating it. Things like the gut health is affecting the, the pain levels in the body and the inflammation in the body. Speaker 2: (27:22) That put on weight a little bit around the middle, which is pulling me back in a different way. They mop and you probably dehydrated and not doing enough a aerobic exercise. So then stagnant in the periphery. Circulation is stagnant. What are these things contribute to the back pain? And so you can't just go and take an antiinflammatory and think you know, you'll be right or even have surgery and think you'll be alright because you're not addressing the system. And he can eat. We can have a tissue related mechanical reason that you have an injury, but it's not the only part of the equation that you need to be addressing. I mean, I've got four disks that are completely, but there's nothing in between my destiny. I don't have any pain because, but I did, but I spent a lot of time working on, on things like hydration, my immune system, my gut health my core strength in all of these aspects to it and not focusing just on I've got to go and get surgery to fuse the back, which was what was recommended. And I now don't have any touch word time, which I used to have on an absolute, you know, debilitating Speaker 3: (28:41) Navel. I'll quickly add, like when we're talking about mechanical pine and a law of back in discs and things like that we need to be really careful with how we explain these to patients and how people interpret their scan findings. And there's, if you're beyond 40 years old and into the 50 sixties, there's going to be date generation, there's going to be disclosures, there's going to be all these findings. Which can lay like which can be asymptomatic. And if you have, if you scan a hundred healthy paper with no pain whatsoever, you scan their backs up to, well, depending on the age, let's say if they're about 50 up to 80% of them are going to have some disc bulges. They're going to have some degeneration, they're going to show some findings and they're all healthy. They're showing no pain. So with back pain comes in and they're like, I want to get a scan and I scan that show these disc bulges. Speaker 3: (29:33) Okay, is this related to their pain? Who knows because they're you know, you've got all these studies of all these healthy people that have these findings. How can we correlate the two? There are very, very low percentage people that will have like a really significant disc protrusion that's obstructing one of the nerves or impinging one of the nerves, which usually causes like weakness and like permanent numbness down the leg. That's a very serious condition. But when I have someone come into my clinic and they've had years of back pain, they like, well, could all this look at all these scans. I like shelve these results into my face. And they're like, look, look at this level, this level, this level. And you have to really peg them back a little bit and show them, okay. You need to give them a little bit of reassurance as well because they are panicking and it doesn't really serve them with their rehabilitation. So you need to be really careful with how you deal with these sort of clients. Speaker 2: (30:26) Yes. And, and then actually, you know, doing proactive things before you grow up to surgery. You know, like, let's try strengthening the core. Let's try sorting your gut bacteria out. Let's try re reducing the inflammation load in your body through other means. You know, cutting out the bad stuff and doing more, more aerobic exercise and, and doing these things in more sleep. And you know, all of these basic things, they, a lot of people neglect because they, they want the more complicated answer they want. The more the surgery, the pill though, whatever that might, it's going to make it this magically go away and see the taking a systems approach and it, everything that we don't, we always looking at the whole system as best as we can with our knowledge. You know, it's understanding what could be possibly contributing it before we go and get code under the knife, which is addressed at thing for anybody to do. Speaker 2: (31:18) So like it's worth my opinion trying everything else before we try that route, you know. And you know, if I hadn't done what I'd done, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be speaking from experience, but yeah, it was either get four discs fuse, which would be a huge, I'd never be as mobile again or I'd probably never be able to do a lot of things if I'd done it. And now just spending a huge amount of time in the core. There's a lot of exercise and work that goes into keeping my core and my, you know, my back and all that happen or these areas strong but on pain-free. And I know this is only one anecdotally example of this, but it's not an isolated case and same. Sure. But, okay. So now let's, let's leave the pain conversation now. Read one of your blogs on read East. Can you explain that and what the heck you mean by by that? Speaker 3: (32:18) Yeah. Relative energy deficiency in sport is a recognized condition. It used to be the female triad which I'll explain in a second, but now it's applied to males also cause they say this and it's a condition where you have like your body. The best I can explain it is like your body has a certain amount of energy that it can dissipate when you exercise. And if you, you need to replace that energy with things like nutrition, like proper diet. If you really exceed the app, put your energy output and your input doesn't make that level. Your body is going to stop producing, I guess you could call it output energy by extracting minerals from your muscles, from your bones and just try, they have to get the energy from some way. It can't be just created out of thin air. Speaker 3: (33:15) And so if you're starting to do more and more work, if you're starting to really push yourself and get into ultras and all that stuff and you're not feeding yourself the right energy, then you're going to get into this energy deficit. And so the energy deficit, if it's over a longer period of time it can take enough minerals out of the bone and stop causing things like stress fractures. It can redirect the energy from say your internal organs and you can start having gut issues and all they sort of things. And it can just be a really downward spiral into a lot of injuries, a lot of stress, a lot of chronic issues and it can get really, really dangerous and can start to lay to a lot of real health complications. And so it used to be very common in females who were in adolescents who were very like had a lot of body image issues and was like under a lot of pressure to perform as well. Speaker 3: (34:20) And so they would really work hard but also not feed themselves enough because they wanted to have a better image of themselves. And if they were told that any to lose a few kilos or whatever have you. So they're working hard on the track and they're also not feeding their body and they would start having like an altered menstrual cycle or because their body is redirecting preferences away from the internal organs and they started having gut issues because we're redirecting that we need to prioritize the, the energy output like the running and the body's always going to give your energy to the the physical activity that you're giving yourself. Because if you think evolutionary, you need to run away from a predator. That is the highest priority that the body's going to give is the physical output. And so then the internal guts and the, the minerals from all the other stuff that is gathering all those resources and putting it into that energy output and can lead to really, really serious consequences over training syndrome or adrenal adrenal burnout would also play into this. So I'm full of today Speaker 2: (35:38) As a young girl was a gymnast. And of course we would tell we had to lose weight all the time cause we had to be tiny, tiny, tiny and I was way too heavy. And that lead to a whole lot of complications. And that's very common thing with young pubescent girls, especially when they, you know, chatting the body shapes changing as well. So they hope, you know, self-image just changing. And then you're told you're fat all the time. It's brought in taught senior girls to gymnastics or something. I can say old ballet unless they're really, really tiny and don't have an issue with us. And then looking at even things like I'm studying DNA at the moment in looking at the hormone cascade and which which costs you, your body type. So if you're an anger dominant female, a female who produces quickly from your progesterone into testosterone, but very slowly into estrogens, then you're very likely, if you overtrain you, you're very likely to lose your mutual stock cycle, which is a very big red flag. Speaker 2: (36:38) If anybody is experiencing that. It's not something to go, well let's describe it on you have a period every month. No, this is a serious health events. You need to be looking at why that's happening. So if you yeah, if you and your dominant and you, you know, usually you have this small embrace and you're very likely to lose your, your cycle very quickly so you can go into over-training quite quickly. And if your Easter dominant, then you can, it depends on which way you cross this in the estrogens and that's another conversation. But what, what is really important at known here is that you are running the rest when you over train, you're not actually improving when you're actually training to the optimum levels. So when you overtrain all that hardware that you're putting into it is then being wasted because you're not recovering and not giving it the nutrients. Speaker 2: (37:34) And when, like you said, when you are under stress and your body will prioritize the physical energy because of the fight or flight syndrome. So you then you're producing your cortisol and your adrenaline constantly, which a lot of us in dealing with, not on the athletes but just with the lifestyle that we have constant demands from computers and emails and bosses and sewn bows. So we are in this constant cycle fodder flight and that takes energy away from your immune system, takes energy away from, excuse me, mum's ringing energy away from your immune system, from your ability to fight diseases and infections, your hormonal cycle, everything, your digestive processes, your recovery processes are all in deficit. And this is why optimizing your nutrition on top of, of your training is really important in prioritizing the right amount of recovery. And this is very difficult territory for marathoners, especially if you had the mentality, I'm tough, I can handle it, I can just push her and push her and push Sheree. Speaker 3: (38:42) And that can be really problematic, you know because it's a, it's a problem that I've dealt with definitely. Because you, you on the one side you want to be tough Speaker 2: (38:53) And push through and you can, and that has great benefits. Speaker 3: (38:57) But on the other side, you're actually doing yourself health, the service and you can be fit but unhealthy. Which is a really important point. You might also be interested, I've got a an a podcast episode on this interwoven relationship between sleep and stress and recovery. And I do mention this cortisol that gets released through the body and the importance of that and it's this really interwoven relationship that all those concepts have and the impact it has on your running and your injury risk and performance. It's, it's a really interesting concept that not a lot of people would take into consideration. Like you were saying, people just care about Apple, they just care about running. If I run faster, if I run further, if I do it more frequently, that's how I'm going to get stronger. But it's not really the case. You get stronger, faster when you actually go and sleep better and eat properly. Good. Yeah. To try and hydrogenate a Islay pod. I've been told that a couple of times and it rings for absolutely. So yeah, we have a like a thing like a check list that we get our athletes to do. And you can do this with your HIV apps as well. They, they measure your heart rate variability. But then you can see if you're actually going in. Speaker 2: (40:14) So over training, you know, if you're just writing on a scan of one to 10, your hydration is today. Your sleep, your stress levels, your injury levels, your mood, all of these things will give you an indication are you getting in the wrong direction? If you're coming back with low scores and you've got a big training day to day, it might be what do I do? You not to do their training and then leave a love responsibility and not feeling guilty and understanding your body is really something that you have to learn and grow with over time. Or if you've got a great coach, you can say, your numbers aren't looking good on your HIV or whatever you need to call back today. I want you to have a day off. And that's scary for athletes. You know when you're training for some great huge beat and you've got to have a day off, you don't want to go, ah, it's all going to go to custard, but I can tell you if you can, if you start to this and then read your body better, you have a bit of performance on lists on this training. Speaker 2: (41:07) Then if you're pushing it to the absolute Instagram and you see this like with athletes in the last three weeks, I haven't done enough training throughout the program and then the last three weeks they're trying to cram in what they didn't do because Oh my God, the rice is around the corner Speaker 3: (41:21) And that's the worst thing you can do. Yeah, not going to recover enough to be, I want to run. I'm glad you're talking about this because this is the idea of the podcast. It's called the run smarter podcast because you could train hard, but you actually need to base Mott, and I say this all the time, like Ron says, don't make the best decisions. They really, really don't. And they come into my clinic and they're injured and they tell me about their story. And you feel like you just want to slap people ahead with your hand because they're just talking through their story and you're like, why are you making these decisions? Like why? It just seems that it's Ava, just their drive, their personality and they dislike their perfectionist and I want to perform and they just have to do it. Sometimes it's a bit of an addiction, but sometimes it's this lack of knowledge and they just don't understand the consequences certain things can have and the importance of sleep and recovery and having rest days and having the slow recovery days and, yeah. So it's all about training smarter and being a smarter runoff that's going to lead you to be a better runner. Speaker 2: (42:21) Yup. And then that then is, and this is just runners, but for everybody in learning and understanding and having that maturity and you know, having, having done everything wrong in the early years of my career or even in 11 years of my Korea. But now that I'm talking about, I mean, not going back to the release syndrome or would he be Kona? I'm even doing the rice in the Himalaya's. It's 222 K rice and I came back the next week and three, three teeth fell out, you know. See something doesn't it? That the minerals in your body, it just getting smashed the hell XY even in loose to lose teeth means sure. I shit, that's crazy. Yeah. it was pretty extreme. Three tastes and awakens, it speaks of wait for failure. A lot of implants. I mean this is a, you know, I like, I have the speed, an absolute fortune of my mouth as a mortgage in my mouth in a lot of that is because I just over trying to overtrain for years and lost TAFE. Yeah. So and you can imagine what that's doing to your bones and all the other things you cycle and everything else. So sometimes being, being tough and having a strong drive and having a willpower in it and having a mainstream toughness and all that is right. But not at the expense of your health. And you have to sort of have a little bit of experience and wisdom and listen to these sorts of things to try to understand when am I just being an idiot and when am I, you know, really being sensible. Speaker 3: (43:54) I think it's like, well, when you talk about that, like how do I know if I'm being sensible? Take her like a birds eye view of your performance in your training over the last six months, 12 months, couple of years. Like have you been battling injuries constantly? Have you been increasing your performance? Have you been increasing your running times? Have you do you feel like you can jump out of bed? Do you feel like you can like stop the day? It's really like, I don't know if it's just a running thing. I think it's like a human thing. We really struggle to like get a mental image of what it's been like the last 12 months. We see in this like little one though and say like I need to perform, I need to get better and to get better and you need to really, really take a step back to analyze all of that thing. Speaker 3: (44:41) Like, you know, I know for myself, I haven't really, like I say, if I stopped performing now, I'm going to in one year's time I'm going to be at this level from a two years time. I'm going to be at that level and you can just say it happening. But in the last three years I've got no idea that, so it's taking a, a good bird's eye view of how you're tracking. It could really be a good helpful tool to, like you were talking about saying am I making smarter decisions? Am I you know, taking the goals I want to NMR making the right decisions. Speaker 2: (45:12) And, and that's so true. And you know, we are, we are also individuals and this hap spec to the epigenetic stuff, like not everybody's going to respond the same to each training regime like that. We can have a, an athlete that we're training and two of them, they've got the same dog, they've got the same, maybe the same age, the same, seeks the same goals and they'll get completely different results because one has different set of genes and the other one in understanding that they will, and being able to personalize it to the genes. Well that's, you know, just next level information that we can add into the conversation and change the way the times of the day that you do it and the foods that you are eating and all of that sort of information. So it's exciting times that we're living in because we never had insights into this sort of nation area. Speaker 2: (46:00) So now, you know, you see people making new records in, in things being broken all the time and even the average person getting much more good results. But I think from this whole conversation and we'll wrap up now, Brodie you know, you've given people a lot of food for thought, a lot of food for thought about the brain, the limitations in your, you know, are you limiting yourself with your pain, the way you're experiencing it, with the way you're experiencing your belief systems and how it's influencing your injuries. Also the release, the what does it, the energy and relative energy deficit and overtraining and just wisdom. Like, you know, for a young guy you've got a great mature outlook and obviously your education, your ongoing education has enabled that. So once again, where can people find you, your podcasts, your links, how can they reach out to you if they need help? Speaker 3: (47:00) Okay. So on Instagram it's bertie.shop is my handle. I've got a Facebook group called become a smarter runner and it kind of backs off like links in with the podcast. If you want to follow the podcast, it's called the run smarter podcast and it's available on all the platforms, wherever you listen to your podcasts. My website is breakthrough running.physio and that has my blogs Speaker 2: (47:30) And as well as like my Facebook groups and stuff like that, I'll just post my blogs, I post to evidence and couple little tips, couple of exercises here and there. So I think that's all the links will penalize links in the show notes. Alrighty. So thank you very much for your time today and your expertise and your insights and it just makes me smile because you know, a lot of the stuff I can actually relate to, obviously with my crazy anecdotes, but also it reinforces the learning that I have is that you have another, another, another means in another way of bringing it across. So really, really appreciate your time today and look forward to doing some stuff with you in the future. You're very welcome. It was a lot of fun. Good luck for the next two weeks of just grinding out this book. Thanks night. Speaker 1: (48:16) That's it this week for pushing the limits. We showed her write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at Lisatamati.com.

Even if you don't know Lisa Fischer's name, you do know her voice. A mesmerizing vocalist, Fischer spent decades touring and recording with The Rolling Stones, Luther Vandross, Sting, Tina Turner, Nine Inch Nails, Bruce Springsteen, and many others. That earthshaking voice you hear alongside Jagger on the live version of Gimme Shelter, that's Lisa. She's also recorded and toured on her own, earned a Grammy, been featured in the Oscar-winning documentary 20 Feet from Stardom, and for the last 5 years, Ms. Lisa Fischer has been thrilling audiences with her own shows worldwide.For Lisa, growing up in a neighborhood where loss was a part of the lexicon, she felt like a perpetual outsider. Music was her refuge. She eventually studied opera, then took a turn into R&B, found herself touring with Luther Vandross and other mega-acts, vaulted onto some of the biggest stages in the world. In the midst of this phenomenal success, Lisa wrestled with her own worthiness, and issues of identity, purpose, power, fame, and everything the stage and music industry can bring. We dive into all of this, along with Lisa's take on life, her lens on wonder and possibility, harmony and elevation, alter-egos and true self, and living with one eye on the finality inherent in every moment.Check out our offerings & partners: Ethos is a faster, easier and affordable way to get life insurance. Get a fully personalized quote by going to ethoslife.com/goodlifeWestin: At Westin Hotels & Resorts, they have a single goal: to help you travel well. Explore more at Westin.comEverlane: Right now, you can check out our personalized collection at Everlane.com/GOODLIFE plus, you’ll get free shipping on your first order.Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.