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Whitey and Dan are back in the saddle for another dive into Arnold Schwarzenegger's golden era with their The Running Man (1987) Review, a dystopian action flick that predicted the rise of reality TV and the cult of celebrity with eerie accuracy. It's big, it's loud, it's absurdly 80s, and the boys are here for every neon-lit minute of it.Released in the same year as Predator, The Running Man often sits in Arnie's shadow catalogue, but this week Whitey and Dan make the case that it deserves far more love. The film, adapted from a Stephen King novel (written under the pseudonym Richard Bachman), throws viewers into a violent future where convicted criminals fight for survival on a televised game show, because nothing says prime-time entertainment like watching people get chainsawed on live TV.From the opening massacre in Bakersfield to Ben Richards' first "I'll be back" moment, Whitey and Dan take listeners on a nostalgia-soaked journey through the blood, the banter, and the bad outfits. They break down the stalkers, Buzzsaw, Sub-Zero, Fireball, Dynamo, and Captain Freedom and debate which death scene gets the best (and most ridiculous) send-off. Spoiler: chainsaws and balls don't mix.Along the way, the boys give Richard Dawson his due credit as Damon Killian, the sleaziest game show host since, well, himself. As Whitey points out, Dawson essentially plays an exaggerated version of his Family Feud persona, a charismatic creep who can charm the crowd while stabbing them in the back. Dan draws parallels between modern-day media culture and the movie's grim predictions of audience addiction, fake news, and manufactured heroes, which feel alarmingly close to home.There's plenty of banter too: stories about watching the film with their kids, reminiscing about the VHS days, and of course, a classic tangent on Australian childhoods versus American movie myths. Whitey marvels at Arnie's physical prime, the perfect blend of muscle and movie-star charm, while Dan compares the Austrian Oak's 1987 aesthetic to "a bag of walnuts, Arnie" in Predator. They even give props to the underrated soundtrack by Harold Faltermeyer and the bold (if slightly confusing) set design that feels part Blade Runner, part Rollerball fever dream.The Film School for F-Wits segment delves into dystopian cinema, with Dan running through ten classics that share DNA with The Running Man, including Demolition Man, Gattaca, Children of Men, and 1984. Expect tangents, trivia, and typical Morgs-level shade directed at absent co-hosts.As always, the boys bring the laughs with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. The good? Arnie's comedic timing and Richard Dawson's deliciously slimy performance. The bad? The script's dodgy one-liners, including the immortal “Subzero… now plain zero." The ugly? The shiny Lycra jumpsuits that make everyone look like they've escaped from a Eurovision rehearsal.It's vintage Born to Watch: irreverent, nostalgic, and filled with 80s love. Whether you're an Arnie completist or just here for the banter, this episode proves that The Running Man still runs circles around most modern action flicks.JOIN THE CONVERSATIONShould The Running Man be ranked among Arnie's all-time classics? Did this 1987 gem actually predict the rise of reality TV? Is Richard Dawson the sleaziest game show host in movie history?Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at BornToWatch.com.au#TheRunningMan1987Review #BornToWatch #ArnoldSchwarzenegger #80sAction #SciFiClassic #MoviePodcast #FilmReview #StephenKing #DystopianMovies #CultCinema

Christian College Sex Comedy: Part 15 Chancellor Gets Boned In 30 parts, By FinalStand. Listen to the podcast at Explicit Novels.             The pursuit of power is pointless unless you know how to use it    The look the Chancellor gave me was filled with hate alright, but it was awash in a desperate sexual hunger too. "You goddamn bastard," she huffed through clenched teeth. My response was to switch finger slamming her, instead rolling her rather large clit between my forefinger and thumb gently. "Gak," she choked out. "You can get on top and ride me," I promised her softly. "You an even tie my hands up with the sash of my robe." "On your back, damn you," Melrose snarled ferociously. As I fell back, she ripped my bathrobe sash off so fast it yanked me off the bed. My ass had no sooner hit the bed again when Bazz pulled my robe open and straddled me. She pulled my arms together and bound my wrists with frightening proficiency. "Not your first time at the rodeo?" I joked. She slapped me across the face; not so hard to break my skin but enough to make me have to rework my jaw to get it set again. "Shut up, Braxton," she gloated over me, "I'm going to treat you like the piece of trash that you are. You are going to regret ever thinking you belonged here." Mel rose up on her knees, maneuvered her hand onto my cock, and aimed it at her cunt lips. "Oh," she gasped as her sex blossomed and let my cockhead in. She slowly began shifting down my cock with ecstatic pleasure written all over her face. "It feels pretty good," I started to say. I was going to finish with 'doesn't it?' but she cut me off. "Shut up!" she seethed. "You exist solely for my pleasure. I don't need to hear your juvenile stumbling at sexual banter." This wasn't the time to start a fight; that would come later. Doctor Bazz kept wiggling her ass down my shaft. She was so lost in her own fulfillment that she almost forgot about me. I grunted when she planted herself down particularly hard as she was humping me. Melrose looked down at me. With one hand she struck snake-like at my throat, squeezing my windpipe shut. "You are just a child," she taunted me wickedly, but then her whole tone changed to a creepy, appreciative voice, "a pretty, pretty child." Okay, I want a psychopath. I want a selfish bitch with no issues beyond insensitivity. I do not want a woman in her forties telling me I'm "a pretty, pretty child." That's just wrong, and that's coming from a guy who screws just about anything that moves. "Is this how you screw those sluts?" she moaned. "Is this how you pack Heaven's tight little ass? Does she scream for you?" Wait; did she call Heaven a 'she'? That's progress! I choked out a non-response. I was getting enough air to breath but not enough vocal freedom to talk, and I had a feeling this was on purpose. "You don't need to answer that," she chuckled eerily. "I've heard reports of their sad little cries as they squirted all over you. You love it when you break their wills to you and this, oh, God, big cock, don't you?" The Chancellor leaned forward, her bra-covered breasts dangling tantalizingly close to my mouth, and rolled her hips so that her clit rubbed against my cock. "You hammer them, hammer them, and hammer them some more until their tight little bodies can't even crawl out of your bed. And you wanted to hammer me with this huge cock of yours; you wanted to make me sweat, make me cry out your name, you wanted to wreck me," she sneered. I reached up with my bound hands and lifted her grip off my throat. "Actually, I'm done. I want you out of my room," I growled back. Melrose's breast heaved and she glared down at me, angry but uncertain. "I was hoping there would be something intriguing about you but seriously, you are just, mediocre. Hell, Heaven is more of a woman than you are and that's kind of pathetic. I wasn't denigrating Heaven, who I cared about, but was using Doctor Bazz's prejudice against the bitch. "How dare you?" she muttered. She hadn't stopped humping me yet. "Get some plastic, a broom handle, I don't care, but get the hell off of me, you evil witch," I insisted. As a counterpoint to that, I began to thrust my cock deeper into her womb. "Ugh, ugh, no," she gasped. "You don't, tell me what, to do." Mel had now positioned her clit so that it received maximum impact with my pelvic bone. I flipped us over; even with her resistance, I was too strong for her. I pushed my bound hands down on her sternum, the fear of sexual frustration written large over her face and burning forth from her eyes. "I want Heaven back," I demanded. "Never," she growled. I began to withdraw my cock from her cunt. She whimpered and tried to hold me to her body by grabbing my shoulders in each hand. "Get off me," I insisted. "Get off of me. If you want some piece of meat between your thighs, go to an over-forties bar and pick up some Momma's Boy who will pop in less than fifteen seconds, then grovel at your feet for an hour like a worm. "It would be better than an immature punk like you," she struggled to insult me and my performance. I took three long strokes inside her, flexing my cock when it was at its deepest, thumping her G-spot each time. I could see tears of pleasure in her eyes. I tried to pull out the fourth time but she hooked her legs behind me and held my shoulders tight. "No," she persisted. "I am going to use you until I'm satisfied." Instead of wrestling with her, I pulled her up so that my hands cupped her ass, her arms remained around my shoulders, letting her kiss me, and her thighs and calves were wrapped around my waist. I bounced her up and down quickly, quickening her passion as each drop onto the fullness of my rod brought her closer to orgasm. "What?" she gasped, "Where are we, " "Outside, so that your security can see us," I explained evilly. "No!" she squeaked. "Heaven," I stated. She shook her head so I took two more steps to the cutback exit in the screens. "No, no," she insisted then as I took the next step. "Fine," she said in defeat, but hating me for it. "You can have her back for the short time she's still here," she seethed. "The Board will support my decision and that will be it for her, and probably the rest of you too." "Don't be bitter, Mel," I teased. "You've been good to me so I'm going to be good to you. How do you want it?" She glared at me so I continued talking as I walked us back to the bed. "You want to be slammed from behind, don't you? It is hard to get those girls you break down to do a convincing job of it, yet you miss being treated like a slut," I verbally prodded her. She'd gone over too fast to face down and ass sticking out for someone who didn't crave it. I gently lowered us down to the bed while keeping eye contact. "Take off your bra, then roll over on your hands and knees right here on the edge of the bed. She was torn; she had hold of me at the moment, but she really wanted to give me my grudge fuck. As she opened her shirt, I dove into her cleavage, kissing and licking. She purred hungrily even as she worked her shirt off and then her bra. While keeping up my torture of her breasts, I hooked her thighs with my hand and hiked up her legs until I had her splayed out, her knees pushed halfway to her breasts. I dove down to her muff and ravaged her clitoris and lips. Doctor Bazz squealed with surprise and pleasure. Right as my vaginal attention got to be too much for her, I yanked her ass over the edge, bent her farther over, and returned to chewing on her nipples. If she was upset that I wasn't immediately fucking her, she was doing a good job of hiding it. The next time I dove on her cunt, I kept my fingers on her engorged nipples, teasing to the point pleasure and pain collided. I tore up her cunt with a total disregard to patience and sensitivity. The Chancellor squealed, squirmed, and thrust against me without inhibition until she growled loud enough to bring any guards, had they been close enough. She hit her second spasm when I rushed one hand down to her twat and began to jackhammer two fingers inside her cunt, unrelentingly driving her eruption from crest to crest. When her eyes rolled back in her head, I released her, but only to move to my next stage. I'd promised her a good hard fucking after all. I took Melrose's hips and repositioned her so that she was face down, her knees on the edge of the bed and her legs dangling over. I knelt between her thighs and began licking her from clit to anus. A few passes into it, I sucked several of my fingers on one hand until they were really slick while working her cunt over with my other hand. I think she was a bit surprised when I pressed my first finger against her anus. As her sphincter gave way, Doctor Bazz finally spoke up. "Don't you dare," she moaned sensually. "Don't do this?" I teased her, as I sunk another half-inch into her rectum. "Oh, God, yes," she groaned like a wanton whore. I wiggled in a little farther; Melrose gasped and shook her big ass in my face. I pulled the finger, she whimpered in need, and I went back to assaulting her cunt with my tongue and teeth. "Put it back," she panted. "If I put it back, I'll have to use two fingers," I informed her. Mel coughed in response. I obliged her quiet acquiescence by teasing her anus once more. "Ugh, bastard," she grunted. It started out angry but transformed to sexual in mid-vocalization. I worked my two fingers in slowly, I didn't want her to scream and I'm basically not a sadist. I also ameliorated the pain by slipping my cock back into her cunt seconds later. I developed a slow rhythm, picking up the pace incrementally until she was really taken aback the moment I bottomed out in her womb, tickled her cervix, and twisted my two fingers 180 degrees in her anus. "Oh, God," she moaned. I began fishing through a list of affections until I found the one that bit - 'Gorgeous'. That word bit into her psyche and I decided to use it. "Oh, fuck, Gorgeous, you are so damn sexy," I whispered to her. Melrose coughed, then growled. I took the moment to lean on her back and cruelly grab a breast and begin to aggressively maul it. "Oh, God, yes!" she exulted heavily. "You are a filthy-minded, little, huge damn delinquent." "And you finally got me to ream you good, didn't you?" I responded. "Play, play all you like," she groaned, "but I know how to break you, now." 'Yes', I thought back, 'but I know you want something too.' About this time I was pretty sure there was no possible way I was getting away with this. I had fucking silk screen walls, for pity's sake. Chancellor Bazz was equally sobbing and cursing into my sheets. One second she was encouraging me to pound her harder, I obliged, and the next second she was telling me how good it felt. I will give her this much; the old bird had a lot of sexual frustration to work out and I was her instrument. Having this game go on and on certainly wasn't going to work so I had to figure out what I could do that I wasn't already doing and what would turn her on. I didn't like my answer. I reached down and took Melrose by the back of her head and pushed her face deeper into the bed. First she moaned louder and then her body started to tremble as she thrust back harder. When the suffocation set in, she struggled to rise but I was too strong and pressing her down with too much force. The Chancellor reached back from her vulnerable position and tried to push me off and remove my hand holding her head down. She became more and more frantic, undoubtedly fuelled by her own sense of rage upon the world and mirroring my own hatred of her as my motivation. Her last explosion of air was a scream into the bed. A fear-fueled orgasm overwhelmed her with her whole body going rigid, then lurching about. Now that I'd gotten her off, I let go of her neck, going so far as to grabbing her shoulder and pull her up for a desperate breath. I withdrew my fingers from her ass and my cock from her flooded cunt. Melrose lay boneless on the bed, dazed and incoherent. I put my fists on either side of her shoulders and leaned over my tormentor and victim. "You damn near killed me, you bastard," she moaned heatedly. "Was the orgasm worth it, knowing this might be the last thing you feel in this life?" I whispered to her. "Don't answer because your body told the story already. As much as you hate me, you loved putting everything on the line like that." "Shut up," she wheezed. "You know nothing, Child." "I know you are lying face-first, mostly naked, on my bed, freshly fucked, covered in sweat, my cock resting on your open, inviting ass with your legs spread wide for me, Doctor Bazz. I know I said that the next time we met I was going to fuck you like I owned you, and I think I've done that." "I am, going to, break, all of your girl, friends," Melrose ground out. "We will see who owns who when this is over, Mr. Braxton," she gasped once she'd finally calmed down and she could take an unlabored breath. As I slowly got off of her, she gave out one last sigh. "Remember your promise, Chancellor," I cautioned her. "I remember all kinds of things," she snapped back. Doctor Bazz resumed a standing position but was polite enough not to kick me when I helped her get her panties back on. "Let's not do this again," I cautioned the Chancellor. "If we do, I'm going to have to tie you up and abuse all three of your holes all weekend long." "The only 'next time' will be my last time using you," she growled. "You didn't let me finish, Mel. Next time, after I've got you warmed up, I'm handing you over to Rio who, trust me, will be a lot less compassionate than I am. Like you, she's got some anger issues to work through," I grinned. "Thank you for putting her back on my radar," she sneered back sweetly. "I'm not too worried, Mel," I replied. "You are a pretty smart woman. You know that with Rio, the pain and risk of permanent harm isn't just play. She'll be looking forward to making you beg for your life." The expectant smile she shot my way chilled the soul. God, can't you give me some not-so-crazy women to deal with? For once, he gave me a reply by way of a sudden insight: try not to solve every problem with my cock and appreciate the sane women who do spend time with me. Doctor Bazz moved past me so I gently stroked her ass. "Done?" she snarled while looking straight ahead. Her anger was betrayed by her hardening nipples. "Yes. And I apologize, Chancellor. I was only thinking about your arms bound behind your back while I pounded your cunt at the same time as Rio slammed you from behind," I said softly. She rotated her gaze to me, lust and hate warring across her countenance. "Every time we are alone together, Melrose," I breathed into the side of her face as I rubbed a hand down from her stomach to her crotch, "I am going to have to check out how wet you are." Her hand flashed down and stopped my progress. "Or would you rather I check you from behind?" I added as I ran a hand down her rump. "Fuck you," she sighed. "Is that an invitation?" I teased. This was killing me inside. "Just remember that next time, you are getting that dildo rammed up your ass." "Damn you," she seethed once more. "I have to go before security suspects something." Like they didn't all know precisely what had been going on? How dumb did she think they were? Without another word she strode out of my bedroom into the main area. "What have you found?" she questioned the guards. Of course they had found nothing damning. They had to be suspicious of all the TVs and computer stations without internet hook-ups but no one mentioned a thing. "This was a colossal waste of time," Melrose said in an exaggerated display. "Let's go." Doctor Bazz led the way down the stairs but stumbled on the first step. The last guard in line smirked at me. "Do you miss Dana much?" I inquired quietly. "And how," she rolled her eyes. "Tonight was a total bust. Anyone with half a brain knew you expected a raid tonight and would have everything stashed somewhere else. All this overtime is good for my paycheck but I'd kill for a good night's sleep." "Oh, you are preaching to the choir, ma'am," I chuckled, "preaching to the choir." I went back to my room and lay down. Sleep did not come easy. I knew that the Science Club's cameras had recorded the events of the past half hour; I just had to figure out what to do with them, besides get Heaven back. Rolling Off the Bottom I had grabbed a shower around 2:00 so I wasn't really surprised that a dozen feet came running up my steps at 6:15. I was barely able to prop myself up in the bed when Rio came storming in. "What's up, dude?" she said as she plopped down. "Planning to forgo cleanliness?" "I showered earlier," I told them. Valerie, Iona, Opal, Brandi and Barbie Lynn all came in and sat around me. Barbie Lynn was the first to clue in that something was off. "What's wrong, Honey?" she asked with concern. "My room was raided last night," I answered. It wasn't the total truth but I wasn't sure how I felt about my actions with the Chancellor the night before, much less how my friends would take it. "Well, you are still here so they didn't find anything, so what is it?" Opal prodded. "Ladies, can I keep this plan to myself?" I requested. "Of course," Iona responded. Sadly, she seemed to be the only one who appeared ready to let the situation lie. "Don't make us get all CSI on your ass," Rio teased. "You know we'll eventually figure it out so you might as well tell us." I studied her for a few seconds. "I ass-raped the Chancellor in order to get Heaven back," I told her in a dead-even tone. It was an empty joy to see that most of them realized too late they really didn't want to know after all. "What did she say?" Barbie Lynn came to my rescue. "Are we getting Heaven back?" "She promised me, and I have reason to believe she'll actually honor it," I replied. "Well, Rio finally kicked in, "How was she?" "Why do you think I took a shower earlier?" I pointed out. "I've never used sex that way and I pray it never happens again." "Don't beat yourself up over this," Brandi consoled me. "You did say that being young means you get to do stupid shit?" I don't recall using those exact words but still, "I think we can agree to not talk about this outside of this room," Opal added. "So do you know of any Thai Sexual Cleansing ritual that will help you get over last night?" Brandi grinned mischievously. I chuckled. "We'd love to help," Barbie Lynn chimed in. "Thank you, ladies," I smiled, "but I think I need to get my head on straight before diving back into the pleasurable side of this school. I need to know if I did the right thing or not." On that cheery note we all began to move toward the stairs and out into the world. In the stairwell Valerie cornered me, put a hand on my chest to impede my progress, and motioned to me that she had something to say. "From the discussion in the Chancellor's office Monday I get the feeling that Heaven is a girl-guy, shemale, what have you; right?" she started off. I nodded. "You clearly like girls but you are real close to Heaven; right?" Val continued. "Yes," I replied. "So you risked something you love, namely, the pleasure you derive from sex, to save her; right?" she prodded. "Yes," I sounded curious. "Then you did the right thing," she concluded. "Zane, I'd kill for the people I love and I imagine you would too. What's death compared to a little rough sex with an evil controlling bitch to get her to release someone as close to you as Heaven appears to be?" "Thanks, Valerie," I grinned. "My heart knows you are right but it is going to take my mind a while to accept that. I guess I'm over-thinking things." "Happens to the best of us," Valerie joked, then punched me in the arm. "Let's catch up with the others before Rio does something stupid, okay, does something more stupid than normal." We were halfway through breakfast when I noted a diminishing of noise from the south entrance of the hall. Being taller than the average female student, I was able to make out the cause of the disturbance. I catapulted out of my seat and raced for the lady at the door; I had the vague impression I wasn't alone. I rushed up within a few feet of Heaven, who had dropped her bags and looked at me with fear and expectation. I didn't want to overwhelm or embarrass her so I pulled up short to make sure the moment was special. I'm an idiot!! Rio slipped past me, grabbed Heaven's cheeks, and planted a deep kiss full of longing on MY GIRL's lips!! "Oh, Babycakes, I've missed you so much," Rio panted passionately to Heaven. "Ah, thanks, Rio," Heaven said, "but if you don't let go of me right now, I'm going to strangle you with your own intestines." Heaven untangled herself from Rio, shot a look my way, then rushed into Christina's arms. Rio smirked at me. The rest of Christina's crew swarmed around Heaven and rejoiced at her return. I took a step back to give them some room. I did note Chancellor Bazz glaring at me from the head table. I looked back to catch sight of Dana Gorman giving me a lopsided grin from the door Heaven had come through, a McDonald's bag in hand. I missed Heaven's arm slipping through her knot of friends and pulling me in. She pressed her body against me and looked up into my eyes. "I want you inside of me so bad," she whispered. Why can't a woman look at me and say "I've missed gazing into your eyes" or something romantic like that? "How about we get Heaven squared away in our room before Assembly?" Christina suggested. "We'll get her bags," Hope volunteered. "I'll come too," I joined in, but Chastity quickly put a hand up. "No, you don't," she smiled. "We'd like Heaven to actually get to Assembly." "There is no Assembly today," Iona pointed out. "Great, I can go straight to Zane's room," Heaven beamed. "I don't think we'll mind the company," Paige announced. I was suddenly left trying to figure out how she'd appeared next to me in this crowd, as well as how my arm ended up around her waist. "Holy Hell, Paige," I hissed. "You are going to give me a heart attack if you keep that up." "It isn't worth it unless you pay the price," she teased me. What the hell did that mean, 'pay the price'? Heaven balled up her fists and I was sure blood was about to be spilled. "Paige, we need to figure out what you are wearing to the party this weekend," Valerie intervened. "Party?" Paige sounded intrigued. Valerie edged Paige away and the situation defused. "Heaven, unpack," I began. "Iona, round up the Coach and get her to our place." "Barbie Lynn, could you and Alice watch over the door to make sure we aren't overwhelmed by non-freshmen?" Alice had been standing on the periphery and was clearly stunned that I was addressing her in this manner, but still rapidly nodded and looked to Barbie Lynn to gauge her perception of the request. Barbie Lynn gave her 'replacement' a smile and motioned Alice away from the group as well. "Alright, everyone," Doctor Larson spoke up, "finish breakfast and then back to your rooms. We are still under twenty-four hours of restricted travel so I do not expect to see any of you again until lunch. Please get about your business. Lastly, I expect some of you will be called before the Board of Directors to give testimony or receive a verdict on your status here; make yourself ready and presentable." "Mr. Braxton," Doctor Topaz Larson fixed me with a deadly eye, "that will require you to remain fully clothed most of the time. Do you understand?" "Of course, Doctor Larson; I'll do my best," I swore. "Sweet! That means I get to run around naked!" Rio exalted. "Ms. Talon, are you taking your anti-psychotic drugs?" Doctor Larson said deadpan. "Nope; I've been slipping them into the Chancellor's tea," Rio grinned all crazy-like. "Do you think anyone has noticed?" "If you want to take credit for the past two weeks, by all means do so," Topaz allowed. "I was looking for a cheap and sleazy way to be despised by everybody, she began, but I headed her off. "She'll stay in clothes and we'll make sure that all her pills are changed to suppositories. I know she won't miss any of those," I taunted my friend. "That may be for the best," Doctor Larson snorted disdainfully, but ruined it with a grin. She turned and strode back to the table. I wasn't sure which one of us the Chancellor hated more; Doctor Larson for keeping order or the rest of us for obeying. "Okay, I'm going to the bathroom. Heaven, can I hope to see you once you are squared away in your room?" I asked as I hugged her once more and headed away. I knew the questions would come soon enough. One aspect of a women's college that guys might not appreciate is that there are only stalls in girl's bathrooms, and since FFU has a grand total of two men's rooms on the entire campus (Administration and Athletics), I was always using a female facility. I was about to finish business, the standing-up kind, when my door rattled as someone tried to get in. "Excuse me?" I inquired. "Let me in," hissed my visitor. Since I clearly knew the voice, I zipped up and unlatched the door. She pushed in and latched the door behind her before pushing me down and straddling my lap. "You did, Heaven kissed me ", something." Kiss, kiss. "Christina says it had to be you who got me back." She went back to kissing me. "You are my girlfriend, Heaven. I don't know what I wouldn't do for you, Babe," I told her. She nestled into my lap and wrapped her arms around my neck. "You make me feel so alive, Zane," Heaven related in a soft vulnerable tone. "Don't get all romantic on me," I teased her between light kisses on her lips. "I've got a whole bottle of Viagra showing up at noon and I need someone to work all that sexual energy out on,  and, okay, I missed you." She wiggled into a more snug fit in my lap. "Did you miss me more than Barbie Lynn, or Paige?" she teased. "They aren't you," I countered. I ran my right hand between us, worked up her skirt, and began rubbing her package, which was clearly straining against the strap-down. Heaven began moaning, then slowly rolling her body against mine. "Come on," she panted, "let's have a quickie." "Can't happen," I whispered. To prove my dedication to my statement, I ran my left hand around her hip, under her skirt, and to her covered ass. I pressed a finger between her ass cheeks until I pressed against her anus. Now I was massaging her front and back. "Oh, God, you bastard," she sobbed while she rocked back and forth. "We really need to get going, though," I sighed. "Bazz will send someone after us soon enough." "I, Gurr, I owe you, Zane," Heaven groaned. "You stood by me. Damn, you fought Gorman by yourself for me and somehow you got me back. I know I can be a horrible person but you've always looked past that and saw who I could be." "I could continue being a jack-ass and say that I looked past your horrible personality to that luscious ass but I think I'd rather remind you that I chose you to be my lover and no one else," I smiled at Heaven. "Your lover, she murmured happily. "And you are my bitch," she tacked on that bit from our sexual encounter in the Kappa Sigma closet hardly one week back. We still managed to stand up and get the door open before Ms. Marlowe came in quietly. She frowned at us while we grinned at her, cleaned our hands, and walked past her back to the Dining Hall. Restructuring We sat outside in the hall opposite the main Administrative conference room. There weren't a ton of us; the individual class presidents plus Heaven, Rio and myself. Christina and Rhaine shared the Senior Class spot. "Drink run," I volunteered. "Who wants what?" "Zane, if they call for you and you're gone, it will be big trouble," Christina pointed out. "If I stay here one more minute, I'll strip off my clothes, paint myself blue, and streak across campus," I grinned piratically. "Sprite," Heaven spoke up. A series of orders followed and I hurried off. Upon my return, I handed Rhaine (last in line) a Doctor Pepper, which caused her to give me an odd look. "I didn't ask for, she began muttering. "Nah, but I always see you drinking the stuff so I figured you could use one," I told her. "Ah, thank you," she responded with a cautious smile. "If it makes you horny then it was my idea too, Rhaine," Rio leaned forward so Rhaine could see her and smiled. "Is she hormonal, dropped on the head as a child, or what?" Simone Brady asked the group of us. She was the Junior Class President and nominally a Rhaine supporter. She'd asked for and received a Sunkist. "Tie me up in your room and we'll find out," Rio licked her lips at Simone. "Isn't that supposed to be the other way around?" Heaven quizzed Rio. "No; Simone looks like a slow learner and I don't want to scare her off on our first date," Rio leered. "Now you know what I went through," Rhaine explained to Simone, who sniffed in derision. "Hey, I don't know this crazy woman at all but even I can tell she's playing with you two," Hannah Cartwright, Sophomore Class President, rolled her eyes. "How about we all try to remember we are all here to save our school?" Christina interrupted. The conversation had died down to nothing when Rio nudged me. "There's this old guy coming down the hallway and he looks like he knows you," she whispered. I looked up and my heart nearly stopped. I'd fucked up even worse than I thought. "Uncle Josh," I said weakly, as I stood and faced him. "Dude, I thought you said your family was dead," Rio continued. "Technically, that would be true," the old man rumbled, "and you would be Rio Talon. I'm Joshua Coppersmith, old family acquaintance and the Braxton family executor." "The last time I saw you I was being placed on a plane to Thailand," I stated somewhat bitterly. "It was part of your father's will, Zane. He was my boss and the son of a friend so I owed it to him to trust his judgment concerning his only child," Uncle Josh explained. "I recall wanting to stay with you," I reminded him. I recalled crying a river of tears, hoping to stay. I actually knew who Josh was, where Tim and Jill were virtual unknowns. "A normal life is not allowed for everyone," Christina spoke up; "Past battles and all." I hate being beaten with my own words. "That was one of your father's favorite sayings," Uncle Josh said. "I am glad to see you living by it. Thank you, Ms. Buchanan." She nodded politely. "Who is this old geezer again?" Rio interjected. "He was a close personal friend of my grandfather. They turned the company from a tired little mining concern to something a bit more. He mentored my father and they worked side-by-side when granddad died. Now he sort of runs thing until I inherit," I outlined. "That is somewhat correct but not why I'm here. I could hardly miss the past week's activities here at Freedom Fellowship University. As the child of Victor and Jenna Braxton, I owed it to them both to let Zane sink or swim on his own. As the future head of the corporation I work for, I need to make sure he doesn't end up in prison," Josh clarified. "Dude," Rio scoffed, then came to my side, "your boy went to jail last week. Where were you then?" "Ms. Talon, I do not have spies watching his every move. By the time I became aware of the matter, it had been resolved," my pseudo-Uncle responded. "I seriously suggest you get a 'minder' for Zane," Hannah Cartwright weighed in. "He's a real nutjob." That assessment would have angered me more had I not seen everyone nod in agreement. Instead, I went for the redirect. "You've been in contact with Aunt Jill?" As far as I knew, Jill despised every aspect of my Dad's life. "Zane, Jill has never handled more than two hundred dollars her entire life; of course I'm keeping an eye on her, and you," Josh stared at me. "I carefully monitor both yours and her finances." "Seriously?" Christina asked skeptically. "He bought a warehouse full of furniture and that didn't appear to you to be frivolous?" "Frivolous would be renting a private jet and a penthouse for a weekend in Las Vegas. Since Zane can't use eight sofas, I made the educated guess he was buying them to help out his dorm mates," Josh countered. "It is a pleasure to meet you, sir. I'm Rhaine Ritchie, Senior Class President," Rhaine jumped in. "I am curious as to your purpose here. Are you here to take Zane away or are you going to help him stay here?" "President Presumptive," Heaven growled. "That's good to know," Josh nodded, "and I'm here to represent the corporation's interests, in this case, avoiding embarrassment to the company's executive branch." "If you want an embarrassment, you don't need to go any further than Heaven," Rhaine insinuated. "She's my transgender girlfriend and we have rocking sex," I blurted out to preempt Rhaine. Heaven's eyes flew open; Joshua looked totally nonplussed. "Did you buy her in a Manila slum?" Josh asked me dryly. "Ahh, no?" I stammered. "Oh, that's alright, then," Uncle Josh mused. "I mean, once I had to fly a fourteen-year-old Tanzanian princess back to her home and explain to her parents why she and Victor weren't really married." He looked at Heaven, "Besides, she's clearly an adult and we could do far worse with photo opportunities." "His father dated his share of actresses and models before he settled down and I have every reason to believe Zane will be just as much trouble before some woman steals his heart and reins him in," Uncle Joshua related. "Too late," Rio snickered, but I cut her off with a painful elbow to the ribs. "Ow!" "That would be me," Christina stood and declared proudly. Josh looked her over. "Little lady, I hope you have patience, iron resolve, and the will to exert them both in equal measure," he informed her. "I am not sure I want him yet," Christina retorted. "Ah, then you are intelligent as well," Josh smiled. "Please make sure that if you do marry, you don't murder him until you have a child. Otherwise, the inheritance will be a bear. I like Jill but she comes from a family of nitwits," Josh continued. "That won't be a problem," Rio grinned evilly. "Zane's adopted a daughter since coming to FFU." "Iona is not my daughter," I snarled at Rio, "but I could do worse than making her my heir." Instead of being shocked, Josh rolled his shoulders. "I'll get the paperwork to you next week." "Are you sure you want to do that to Ms. Beckett?" Christina asked me. "Who else would be saint enough to deal with Rio if I was gone?" I explained. "Just for that, you get to wear the ball-gag and restraints next time," Rio warned me. "Mr. Coppersmith?" an attendant from the Board meeting asked when she poked her head out of the conference room. Her eyes flitted from me to my 'Uncle', locking on him. He nodded and followed her into the room. "Umm, he looks like my first husband," Rio mused. "I'm sure his wife, children, and grandchildren will take to that without protest," I joked. "Fine; I'll settle for being his mistress," Rio sulked. The Inquisition "Okay, I am missing something," Rhaine spoke up. "What is going on, Zane? Now that you know Heaven is a guy, how can the two of you still be going out together? You are not gay." "Rhaine, I already knew about Heaven before we actually had intercourse, though I admit to being attracted to her before then," I responded. "But, he's a guy. What do you do?" Rhaine wondered out loud with a quizzical look on her face. "Rhaine," Christina chimed in, "what kind of sex do you think Zane has been having with all the women he takes to bed? He's not taking their virginity, after all." "Oh, that's sick!" Simone declared. "Simone, have you ever had anal sex?" Rio grumbled. "God, no, that's gross," Simone said indignantly. "So what was it like when you walked the Dolorosa?" Rio queried. I was pretty stunned Rio even knew what the path that Jesus took to Golgotha was called. "What? I've never been to Israel," Simone answered. "I bet you'd like to go and I'd bet you think you'd like it," Rio grinned. "Yes, I would want to go, and I know it would be spiritual, but this has nothing to do with homosexuality being wrong," Simone struck back. "Listen, you stuck up bitch," Rio kept grinning, "Jesus was a pretty smart Son of God so we would assume if something was really important to him, he'd have brought it up before the Romans gakked him. Seriously, how long does it take to say 'homosexuality is wrong; no more butt-sex'?" Rio beamed vile unpleasantness at Simone. "You are an immoral soul," Rhaine jumped in. "If that is how you want to describe someone who is honest, fearless, and who thinks for themselves, then I guess Rio and I are both immoral souls," I defended my best buddy. "Count me in," Christina raised her hand. "Me, too," Hannah and Heaven joined in our little heresy. "Hannah, how can you go down the same way they are?" Rhaine complained. "Heaven is gay and Christina has lied for her since the beginning; Rio is a criminal; and Zane is, a boy." "Listen, Rhaine, I don't claim to understand what is going on with Heaven and Zane but I figure if God is pissed, he'll let them know," Hannah stated. "In the past two weeks, short of dodging you and your enforcers, I haven't known Rio to do anything wrong. She's served her time so we should forgive her and give her a chance. St Paul started out persecuting early Christians before he saw the light. What would have happened if Jesus hadn't given him a second chance?" Hannah sighed. "How could I do less?" "And Zane, face it, he's eye-candy, and I've got a list of ten different things I want to do with him when my time to have him for Handmaiden's Duty comes up," she finished with a grin. "Just once I'd like to have a girl here tell me I'm smart, or funny, or that I have a nice personality," I griped. "But No, it is always 'he's got a fifteen inch cock as thick as his forearm; he can screw for two hours straight; or that I have a prehensile tongue that can tickle the ovaries and bring a girl to multiple orgasms." Simone and Hannah's eyes grew larger as my gross exaggerations persisted. "It's not fifteen inches long," countered Rhaine decisively. Simone missed it. "How do you know how big it is?" Hannah clearly didn't. "I, Rhaine choked. "I was coming out of the shower when Rhaine, Joy Jefferson, and Mercy Chaplain intercepted me. My towel accidently fell off and she got a brief view," I volunteered. Rhaine's look of surprise became one of veiled thanks. "Because it wasn't like Rhaine wanted that massive piece of meat rubbing between her legs until she cried out in ecstasy or anything like that," Rio teased. "That's enough," I cautioned Rio, and put an arm around her waist to pull her in. That calmed things down until we were all called into the meeting. Uncle Josh was sitting against the near wall. Against the North wall sat Ms. Lane and a dark-haired fortyish woman with reading glasses I didn't recognize. They both were taking notes. On the South Wall sat a different woman, early thirties with short black hair and what I could best describe as a casual lethality. Both new women looked over us newcomers but lingered on Christina, Heaven, and myself. Looking at the eight men on the Board of Directors was rather anticlimactic comparatively. "Ms. Ritchie and Buchanan, we have decided to uphold Chancellor Bazz's decision to annul the last election of Senior Class President. The matter will be decided during Freshman elections in October. We find both of your behavior to date this semester to be deplorable and a sad example to your fellow seniors. Do you have any comments? Ms. Buchanan?" "Directors, what do we do if the Chancellor once again annuls the elections?" Christina asked. "You appeal the action to the new Vice-Chancellor, Doctor Victoria Scarlett," the head of the board directed our attention to the woman sitting with Ms. Lane. As if my life wasn't hell already. "Oh, you would so do her," Rio whispered to me with her insane grin. I was so busy praying that no one heard her that I missed Simone being read the riot act next. She'd be facing re-election in a few weeks too, a fact she was distinctly upset by. Hannah was given the same news but her reaction was to flick her hair over one shoulder and give a bored sigh. "What was that, Ms. Cartwright?" the Head Director grilled her. "Reverence, Purity, Integrity, this is what our school supposedly stands for," Hannah faced the man down. "I can vote and fight for my country but you are treating us like children, Sir. The Chancellor was wrong and we fought back against her tyranny because that was the only choice our Christian moral code left us." "It is hardly Christian to physically attack your fellow students, Ms. Cartwright," he shot back. "I didn't tell any of my class to attack anyone but I admit that I punched two girls who I knew attacked other students," she admitted. "I figured it was time for a little Old Testament 'Wrath of the Israelites' kind of thing." "Your intransience is not encouraging," a different man on the board stated. "I apologize, Sir. I was hoping my love of justice would not be misunderstood," she sighed. "Hannah, I'm voting for you as my class president," Rio leaned forward and addressed Hannah. "You can't, Rio; you are a freshman and I'm a sophomore," Hannah grinned back at her. As far as I could tell, this was the most either had ever said to the other. "Obviously you've never heard of gerrymandering and ballot box stuffing," Rio snickered. "This is neither the time to joke nor a subject to joke about, Ms. Talon," the Chairman said crossly. "Sorry, Sir," Rio beamed. "I wasn't trying to be frivolous; elections are a good thing. I'm all for seeing more of the girls here, to see them get excited and come together for their mutual enjoyment, I swear I do." While that seemed to satisfy the Board, Hannah had to look down at her lap and Heaven developed a sudden coughing fit. "Um, um, Vickers, umm, you represent quite a quandary. We suspect you lied on your application to this school three years ago and you absolutely understood you would not have been admitted if you had been honest with us," the Chairman of the Board declared. Heaven shivered so I took one of her hands while Christina took the other. Our motions were noted but I doubt the three of us cared. "Now, Vickers, we could deal with this matter if you would submit to a medical examination," he continued. "Why?" Christina replied. "Is every other applicant to this school required to do the same?" "No other student has their gender called into question," a third board member informed us. "She is not going to go along with this blatantly discriminatory policy," Christina retorted. "If I may," Doctor Scarlett raised her hand. After a moment the Chairman nodded. "Mr. Braxton, as a man and someone with a confessed familiarity with Heaven Vickers, would you assert that said person is a woman?" "She's more than woman enough for me," I quickly answered. "Since it is clear that I have the lowest moral threshold in this room, it isn't going to make anyone think less of me if I attest that I've seen Heaven naked and she's got all the girlie parts I like," Rio threw her soul into the struggle. Heaven virtually froze up at that declaration. "Are, are you saying that you've seen Umm, Vickers naked?" the second director stuttered. "Dude," Rio scoffed, "we have communal showers here. Seeing a girl naked is hardly a rare occurrence. Since you seem like a kindred kinky soul, I'll let you know that I've seen Heaven under the sheets and I can give that body my pseudo-lesbian seal of approval." "Have you had homosexual relations?" the Chairman gasped. "With Heaven, definitely not," Rio swore with an upraised hand. "As for anyone else, what does it matter?" she joked. "You already think I'm a whore." "You should watch your language," the third director warned Rio. I put my hand on her stomach to hold her back from saying something that would only make it worse for her. "To the bitter end," she winked at me. "To the bitter end," I smirked back. She was taking one for the team; drawing off the discussion about Heaven by shocking the Board. Unfortunately, I wasn't alone in seeing that. "Mr. Chairman," Doctor Scarlett addressed the Head of the Board, "perhaps we could return to the agenda if you want to stay on schedule." "Very well," the man allowed. "Umm, Vickers, this matter isn't over but since we do not have conclusive proof about your gender, your application will remain under review." "Thank you," Heaven replied softly. "Don't thank us," the man spat. "Your deviancy will reveal itself soon enough. Evil can never hide from God's Truth." "God is with us," I glowered back. I wasn't winning any friends on the far side of the table. "Your time is coming, Mr. Braxton," the Chairman retorted. "Ms. Talon, we find it miraculous that you haven't racked up more infractions in your short time here. Now, your parents and this board agreed, upon your admittance, that you would live with the strictest discipline and you've attempted every trick in the book to circumvent those intentions." "They did this to me on purpose," Rio moaned over the revelation of her parents' role in events. They'd given the Chancellor and Dana Gorman carte blanche in dealing with Rio. "Nothing has changed," I whispered to Rio. She turned and looked at me with tear-brimmed eyes. She nodded once in understanding. "A special guardian will be assigned to see to your physical and spiritual security," he continued. "Who?" Rio questioned quietly. "Administration will decide on who is most appropriate," he responded snidely. "Now for Mr. Braxton." "I would like to say how much we appreciate you ladies and gentlemen taking time out of your busy schedules to deal with matters here today," I interrupted. I earned several glares for my effort. "Mr. Braxton, you are an unfortunate aberration that should never have been allowed to happen. All disruptions that have happened in the past few weeks can be laid at your feet," he opened with. I raised my hand. The man opened his mouth to continue but seemed annoyed with my gesture. "Yes, Mr. Braxton?" "Sir, how did you come to this conclusion? I'm one guy, and a freshman at that," I countered. "You are the man, of course," the Chairman snorted. "It is only natural that the women of this campus would follow your masculine authority no matter how unfounded and perverse." Wait, did he just call every woman in this room mindless sheep? "Still, we are caught in the same quandary that left you here in the first place. Since we have already isolated you in a Solarium, you will also be assigned a guardian," he grumbled. "Oh, okay," I shrugged. "What happens to Dana Gorman?" "Ms. Gorman has been terminated," he shrugged back. "But it wasn't her fault. I'm no fan; she did knock me out during a practice session once after all," I pointed out. "She is good for this school, though." "We have a new Head of Security and the Athletics Department is being suspended for the rest of the semester," the Chairman informed us. "That would be the neo-fascist in black at the end of the table," I directed my attention to the lone woman on the south end of the table. "Ending our sports programs would be a serious mistake for the morale of the school. Ms. Gorman has done a bang-up job and it would show real concern for the students at this school if you would keep her on as Athletics Dean." "Ask around to any of the hundreds of students who participate; ask Rhaine, she's worked closely with the Coach before," I begged. I had no idea which way Rhaine would jump but she was the only trump I had to play. The big guy didn't seem inclined to listen to Rhaine but that didn't stop her. "Coach Gorman gives every girl an active outlet for our energy," Rhaine volunteered. "She also allowed the reliable elements of the student body to aid with security. It was a shame that Zane's masculinity unbalanced the school populace; the student body does not blame her for what Zane and Christina did." "She should hardly be rewarded for such a catastrophic loss of control," the second director stated. "Reinstating Coach Gorman as Athletics Dean would save us the need for creating new creative programs to provide for the physical well-being of the girls," Doctor Scarlett suggested. "This is a matter for the Board to discuss," the Chairman announced. "You students are released to return to your dorms. Thank you for your attendance. Mr. Braxton and Ms. Talon, you will be assigned your guardians before you arrive at breakfast tomorrow." We took that as our clue to leave. We made it out of the room and almost out of the building. "A moment, Mr. Braxton, Ms. Buchanan," the short-haired woman called out. I turned and met her while the rest of the group slowed down behind me as we started to exit the building. "I'm Gabrielle Black, your new Head of Campus Security. I thought it was important to meet you before classes formally resume." She stepped up and shook Christina's and my hand while we studied her. "You may call me Zane," I offered. "I hope this means we are getting off on the right foot despite that whole neo-fascist thing." "I don't see any panty lines 'Gestapo' Black," Rio interjected herself. "Have you gone commando today?" "I usually make someone earn the right to find out, Ms. Talon," she gave Rio a shark-like grin. "I really don't see how that is relevant and I really don't want to know," Hannah spoke up. "Come on, Zane," Rio persisted, "give it a shot." "Hannah doesn't want to go there so why don't we say good-bye to the nice lady and go," I responded. "What exactly is Ms. Talon asking for?" Ms. Black inquired. "Apparently Zane has a thing for figuring out women and woman's lingerie," Christina said with a degree of caution. "I hope Ms. Cartwright will forgive me but I'd like to test this little trick," Gabrielle requested. "If Hannah doesn't mind," I asked the sophomore class President (sort of). She nodded so I looked to Gabrielle. "Give me a second," I requested. "What's wrong, Zane?" Rio wondered when I didn't immediately start reeling off the facts. "She's good at lying," I informed the group, "but, " "But?" Gabrielle smirked. "Lycra, form-fitting, probably a custom job, dull black, and I guess, with some sort of synthetic weave," I stumbled along. "I've never seen anything precisely like it." "I have," Simone muttered. "A woman in the Presidential Detail for the Secret Service talked about having o

Episode #137 Mr Motivator's Blueprint for a Overcoming Adversity & Living a Fulfilling LifeWhat do you do when life knocks you down, again and again, but you refuse to stay there?In this powerful episode of the ActionCOACH Business Growth Podcast, Derrick Errol Evans MBE, better known as Mr Motivator, shares a story that goes far beyond Lycra and lunges.From sleeping in homeless shelters to becoming one of Britain's most loved TV icons, Mr Motivator reveals what it really takes to bounce back, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually too.At 72, he's still full of energy, joy, and purpose. But his message today is about far more than fitness. It's about finding peace, creating space, and making time for yourself and for others.

Nick and Angela welcome a new member to the ‘I Cycled to Dish' club, as Sir Grayson Perry pedals his way to the Dish table. Grayson is one of Britain's most celebrated contemporary artists. A potter, writer, broadcaster and social commentator, he rose to fame in 2003 when he won the Turner Prize, becoming the first ceramicist to receive the honour. He joins Nick and Angela to talk about his new tour, Are You Good?, which asks whether any of us are truly behaving ourselves.  We keep it simple at the start, with an ice-cold Daura Damm gluten-free beer. Grayson loves fresh, crunchy salads, and Angela obliges by serving a smashed cucumber and steak noodle salad. The umami flavours are complemented with a glass of Albert Road Pinot Noir. Between bites, the chat covers Marmite confessions, banana rituals, nostalgia for greasy spoons and Nick's delight at discovering someone who likes a pickled onion as much as he does. We even get to hear about the joys of overtaking men in Lycra while wearing a frock.  You can watch full episodes of Dish on YouTube and, new for this season, on Spotify.  All recipes from this podcast can be found at waitrose.com/dishrecipes A transcript for this episode can be found at waitrose.com/dish If you want to get in touch with us about anything at all, contact dish@waitrose.co.uk  Dish from Waitrose is made by Cold Glass Productions

Denmark may be a small country, but it produces world-class athletes in cycling, tennis, handball, badminton, and golf. How do they do it? And how does the tax-financed effort to create athletic champions fit with the culture code of "Jante Law", the idea is that no one should think themselves better than anyone else?  September is when fall sports season starts in Denmark. The badminton league begins, so does volleyball and basketball and hockey. Most importantly, the handball season kicks off, and while I'm not a handball fan myself, I always know when that season is underway because my otherwise mild-mannered downstairs neighbor begins screaming at his flatscreen, cheering on or scolding Denmark's handball girls or handball boys, the teams are equally popular in Denmark.  Team handball was invented in Denmark – and like design, it's a national passion. Danish teams have won several World Championships and many Olympic Gold Medals. Football, otherwise known as soccer, is popular too, although given the international competition, it's a bit harder for little Denmark to win championships. The Danish national team did win a European championship in 1992, something any Danish man over 40 will be happy to discuss with you in great detail. Right now there are more than 300,000 registered football players in Denmark if you count amateur, pro, and semi-pro teams. The population of Denmark is 6 million. That means one out of every 20 Danes is on a football team. Danish athletes are not particularly rich, and the ones who do make big money have tapped into markets outside of Denmark. The most famous is badminton player Viktor Axelsen. Since badminton is most popular in Asia, Viktor Axelsen learned fluent Mandarin Chinese. There are lots of endorsements in the Chinese market. The golfing Højgaard twins, Rasmus and Nicolai, make their money on the international golf circuits, in particular the PGA.  Both of them also have endorsement deals. And Tour de France winner Jonas Vingegaard makes his money not just in France, but also via international endorsements.   Many Danes do sports in their spare time. A bike ride through Copenhagen wouldn't be complete without a middle-aged Lycra lout cyclist who thinks he's Jonas Vingegaard speeding past you in the bike lanes, sometimes screaming “Bagfra!” or “I'm coming up behind you!” Besides criminals and welfare cheats, these are the least liked men in Denmark. And many Danes are involved with what's often described as hygge sports, where the win or the loss isn't as important as the beers with your buddies or pasta with your girls afterwards. These leagues cover the entire lifespan – old boys football clubs or old girls rowing teams can keep you fit long past retirement age – and they often start in childhood. Schools in Denmark have physical education classes – under the old Viking word idraet – but they rarely have school sports teams. Sports are played through clubs, mostly amateur clubs, which is nice for the kids, because if they don't have many friends at school they can make different friends at their sports club. These clubs are part of a huge network connected to Team Denmark, which is a government project to create Denmark's future sports stars. It's always funny to me that there is so much support for elite sport development in a country so keen on Jante Law. Under the Jante Law, the idea is that no one should think themselves better than anyone else. You see this in Danish working culture, and you also see it in the educational system. Smart kids in Denmark don't get a boost – they're expected to just attend ordinary classes and help their slower classmates. There are very few gifted and talented programs, and unlike Germany or the UK, Denmark doesn't academically track children when they're 10 or 11, sending some to more challenging academic programs. In Denmark, you can get away with messing around and doing very little in school until your second year of high school – gymnasium – around age 17 or 18, and then buckle down and end up finding yourself in med school or international business, two of the most sought-after university programs. But, in sport, Denmark begins looking for talent very early. The local sports clubs work with Team Denmark to create a pipeline of talented kids. Team Denmark, which is part of the culture ministry, has been around for forty years, but it constantly updates which sports it supports. Being practical Danes, they aim for sports in which little Denmark has a good chance of big success. Right now, that's badminton, handball, cycling, plus the various sports played on or in the water – sailing, kayaking, swimming, rowing. Denmark has a long tradition of sports that involve boats or water. With all its little islands and fjords, it has more coastline than India. By age 13, these kids are offered places in talent centers or elite sports schools, and when they're 15 and ready for secondary schools, there will be an elite sport track that gives them flexibility to train and compete. Danish universities offer flexibility for the athletes of Team Denmark when it comes to papers and exams. Some companies even offer part-time internships for Denmark's elite athletes, so they can keep their civilian career on track while pursuing their sport. Of course, once they've succeeded at that sport, Jante Law kicks in again. Danish athletes who win things are expected to give credit to their teammates, to their trainers, to the collective effort. To say things like, well, “I was third, I got the bronze, but I could have easily been fourth.” They're also expected to stay in Denmark and pay Danish taxes. Viktor Axelsen found himself rather unpopular when he moved to Dubai. His excuse was the better flight connections to badminton matches Asia, as well as the dry weather being good for his asthma, but everyone knew the difference between 56% income tax on top earners in Denmark and 0% in Dubai probably weighed in his decision. The ideal Danish elite athlete is probably Michael Laudrup, who played football at the highest levels throughout Europe in the 1990s, but was always very humble about his skills. After he retired he came back to Denmark, where he now runs a wine business, does some Danish TV commentary, and no doubt pays substantial Danish taxes. This is sporting success in one of the most egalitarian countries in the world. And that's the How to Live in Denmark podcast for this week. You can read all our of episodes of the Danish Year series at howtoliveindenmark.com, or book me, Kay Xander Mellish, for a speech to your group or organization, anywhere in the world. I love to travel; make me an offer. You can also get our books at books.howtoliveindenmark.com. See you next time!  

It's time for Bookmarks now and today I'm joined by one of the most recognisable faces of stage and screen in this country, Mark Hadlow. Tickets are on sale now for the sequel to one of New Zealand's most successful plays, 'MAMIL' aka Middle-Aged Men in Lycra. Mark has reunited with writer-director Gregory Cooper for the follow-up. It's called 'GOMIL' aka Grumpy Old Men in Lycra. It's touring venues all over the country between the 18th of September and the 17th of October. Mark joins Jesse to tell us about the show along with some of his favourite things.

Discussion Opening September 12th and closing September 27th, Front Row Centre Players presents Rock of Ages, produced by Haley Dorais and Directed by Stephen West. Kyle sits down to discuss the long development of this production and what 80s rock means to Haley and Stephen. Link to Tickets: https://werklundcentre.ca/whats-on/rockofages About the Show: It's the tail end of the big, bad 1980s in Hollywood, and the party has been raging hard. Aqua Net, Lycra, lace and liquor flow freely at one of the Sunset Strip's last legendary venues, a place where sex machine Stacee Jaxx takes the stage and scantily clad groupies line up to turn their fantasies into reality. Amidst the madness, aspiring rock star (and resident toilet cleaner) Drew longs to take the stage as the next big thing (and longs for small-town girl Sherri, fresh off the bus from Kansas with stars in her eyes). But the rock 'n' roll fairy tale is about to end when German developers sweep into town with plans to turn the fabled Strip into just another capitalist strip mall. Can Drew, Sherri and the gang save the strip – and themselves – before it's too late? Only the music of hit bands of the decade hold the answer.

Qore's new facility in Eddyville marks more than production—it's a statement: QIRA is the gold standard in bio-derived materials. Capable of replacing fossil-based inputs with renewable corn-sourced alternatives, QIRA stands as a drop-in replacement for traditional BDO and is already transforming global supply chains. With Cargill and HELM at the helm, QIRA exemplifies how agriculture, industry, and innovation can unite for economic and environmental gain. In this episode, Jon Veldhouse guides us from cornfields to manufacturing floors, illustrating how Qore's partnerships—most notably with LYCRA—are reshaping sustainability standards without sacrificing performance. Discover more through the LYCRA sustainability page and QIRA's company portal to see how this golden opportunity in Iowa is redefining global manufacturing. Find this show on your favorite app: https://iowapodcast.com/qore-qira

En este nuevo episodio de Los Dioses del Marketing, recibimos en cabina a Paulina Rensoli, líder de comunicación corporativa para Latam y asuntos públicos en México de DuPont, una de las empresas más influyentes del mundo en ciencia de materiales (recuerden que ya había pasado fugazmente en el Especial de ExpoPublícitas).¿Sabían que DuPont cumple 100 años en México? Aunque no siempre sepamos, su innovación está en todas partes: en tus leggings (Lycra), tus utensilios (Teflón), el mostrador de Starbucks (Corian), incluso en los trajes de la Fórmula 1 (Nomex).Paulina nos explica cómo una empresa B2B puede construir marca sin estar en el anaquel. ¿La clave? Entender al cliente, conectar con sus necesidades, e integrar la innovación en toda la cultura organizacional.También hablamos de cómo celebrar 100 años sin sonar a video institucional, por qué la comunicación interna es tan importante como la externa, y qué papel juegan marcas como Tyvek o Kevlar en nuestra vida diaria (sí, la de los chalecos antibalas).Y bonus: ¿cuál es el gran reto de las nuevas generaciones en el mundo laboral? Spoiler: la falta de habilidades sociales postpandemia está pegando más fuerte de lo que creemos.Una conversación directa, útil, divertida y honesta sobre comunicación estratégica, posicionamiento, y los desafíos de conectar desde la autenticidad.Los Dioses del Marketing es un podcast de marketing producido por Básico FM para Genio.soy.

Es gibt wieder was auf die Fitness-Lauscher: Alex hat sich ein Gravel-Bike geholt – und plötzlich dreht sich alles um Ausfahrten, Community-Rides und Klickpedale statt Kettlebells. Max bleibt skeptisch, aber neugierig. Gemeinsam sprechen die beiden über den Reiz des Radfahrens, neue Fitness-Hypes, die Schnittstelle zwischen Training und Social Media – und warum Fitness heute mehr ist als nur schwitzen.Zwischen Partnerschaften, Content und echten Abenteuern auf zwei Rädern wird wieder kein Blatt vor den Mund genommen.Diese Folge ist für alle, die wissen wollen, was passiert, wenn der CrossFitter plötzlich Lycra trägt.

The words “icon” and “legend” are thrown around a lot these days, but Norma Kamali has truly had a fabulous career. Her use of unusual materials like sweatpant fabric, stretchy cotton Lycra, and even sleeping bags revolutionized womenswear. And that's just the beginning.On this week's episode of The Run-Through, Kamali shares her wide-ranging thoughts on everything from the stylishness of the '70s, the flattening effect of social media on personal expression and creativity, why she wants her staff to use AI at work, and the reason she opted not to celebrate her 80th birthday. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

The snags are back and this week it's Trevor Mead Quality meats from Byron Bay Is this weeks supplier. The boys have learned to let them cool down a bit now and have a good crack at them. 1 point separate the top 3 so it's a tight one. Buster takes Ang for a good old fashioned ride which gets horribly misconstrued which he quickly Try's to rectify. Buster road tests the new Murf electric he got “ for exercise “ on the rail trail and upsets some Lycra clad road warriors Gibbos week was at an all time low and Buster hits a 10 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On the Show today, Ben Hurley and Tony Lyall discuss men on bikes in Lycra... hot or not? We also chat about Open Home etiquette, do you have a cheeky look in the pantry? Can you use the toilet.. Number 2s? Plus we talk to ACC Head G-Lane about this weekends sports.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ride Back in 2014, the Tour de France rolled through Yorkshire—and something clicked. In this beginner-friendly Ride & Thrive episode, David shares how watching the world's greatest cycling race right on his doorstep ignited a passion that's shaped his life ever since.You'll get a down-to-earth preview of this year's race, learn why it's more than just Lycra and mountains, and discover how the Tour might just inspire your own two-wheeled adventure.If you've ever wondered what all the fuss is about, this one's for you. 

In this delightfully stretchy episode, we squeeze into the world of Lycra — that shiny, form-fitting fabric beloved by cyclists and feared by café-goers everywhere.I chat about what it means to wrap yourself in something that leaves very little to the imagination, and why people do it anyway (hint: it's not always about speed). I share the awkward glory of public spandex moments, the psychology of dressing like a Tour de France hopeful, and how Lycra somehow turns a casual ride into a full-blown identity. It's part fashion, part function, part midlife crisis — and all fun. Come for the Lycra, stay for the laughs — and maybe leave with a little more empathy for the guy ordering a flat white in cleats

Scandal rocks the studio as Pete catches Luke doing the unthinkable: eating a snack on air. Things spiral further when Luke takes a swing at pronouncing pain au raisin, leading to a passionate post-Brexit rant about why all baked goods should come with an English translation.Then, in a shocking turn of events, Pete reveals he's started wearing Y-fronts unironically… a fact Luke finds deeply unsettling. We also hear about Luke's teenage BMX-building era, question whether amateur cyclists really need all that Lycra, and debate whether tall people are just naturally more trustworthy.Email us at hello@lukeandpeteshow.com or you can get in touch on X, Threads or Instagram if character-restricted messaging takes your fancy.Fill out our survey here to have a chance at winning a PS5!***Please take the time to rate and review us on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your pods. It means a great deal to the show and will make it easier for other potential listeners to find us. Thanks!*** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To celebrate the 40th Australian anniversary of Cats the guys chatted to Todd McKenney ahead of the musical’s touchdown in Perth later in the year and despite playing two roles you won’t be seeing him in Lycra anytime soon. Todd shares his favourite Cats songs and gives the guys the low down on his epic three week 60th birthday celebrations. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Clairsy & Lisa took your calls, ‘What’s the one item you own that your partner is trying to get rid of?’. Todd McKenney phoned in to chat about Cats, Lycra and his three-week birthday celebrations. Barra stopped by to chat to the guys about the big weekend of sport, it was a bad weekend for anyone called Oscar and still no win for the Eagles. On The Shaw Report, Lisa takes you through the Logie nominations and get excited for the inaugural Ray Martin award and we get the scoop on the recently knighted celebrities.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Local legend Tod Johnston joined Clairsy & Lisa to reveal that his band Tod Johnston & PeaceLove will headline Clairsy & Lisa’s Perth Pub Crawl at Pinocchios. He and the guys chatted about all the bands that lead him to V-Capri, including early gigs at the Murdoch Uni Tav.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Andy Povey.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references:  Anna Preedy, Director M+H Showhttps://show.museumsandheritage.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/annapreedy/Jon Horsfield, CRO at Centegra, a Cinchio Solutions Partnerhttps://cinchio.com/uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-horsfield-957b3a4/Dom Jones, CEO, Mary Rose Trust https://maryrose.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicejones/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/dominic-jonesPaul Woolf, Trustee at Mary Rose Trusthttps://maryrose.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-woolf/Stephen Spencer, Ambience Director, Stephen Spencer + Associateshttps://www.stephenspencerassociates.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/customerexperiencespecialist/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/stephen-spencerSarah Bagg, Founder, ReWork Consultinghttps://reworkconsulting.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahbagg/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/sarah-baggJeremy Mitchell, Chair of Petersfield Museum and Art Galleryhttps://www.petersfieldmuseum.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-mitchell-frsa-4529b95/Rachel Kuhn, Associate Director, BOP Consultinghttps://www.bop.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kuhnrachel/  Transcriptions:Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. You join me today, out and about yet again. This time I am in London at Olympia for the Museums and Heritage Show. Hotly anticipated event in everybody's diary. We all look forward to it. Two days of talks and exhibitions and workshops. Just a whole lot of networking and fun. And of course, we've got the M and H awards as well. So in this episode, I am going to be joined by a number of different people from across the sector, museum and cultural institution professionals, we've got some consultants, we've got some suppliers to the industry, all pretty much giving us their take on what they've seen, what they're doing and what their thoughts are for the year ahead. So, without further ado, let's meet our first guest. Andy Povey: Hi, Anna. Welcome to Skip the Queue. Thank you for giving us some of your time on what must be a massively busy day for you. I wonder if you could just tell the audience who you are, what you do, a little bit about what museums and heritage is, because not everyone listening to the podcast comes from the museum sector. Anna Preedy: Andy, thanks. This is a great opportunity and always really lovely to see your happy smiley face at the Museums and Heritage Show. So M and H, as we're often referred to as, stands for Museums and Heritage and we're a small business that organises the principal trade exhibition for the Museums and Heritage sector that could be broadened, I suppose, into the cultural sector. We also have the awards ceremony for the sector and an online magazine. So we are Museums and Heritage, but we're often referred to as M and H and we've been around for a very long time, 30 plus years. Andy Povey: Oh, my word. Anna Preedy: I know. Andy Povey: And what's your role within the organisation? Your badge says Event Director today. That's one of many hats. Anna Preedy: I'm sure it is one of many hats because we're a very small team. So I own and manage the events, if you like. M and H is my baby. I've been doing it for a very long time. I feel like I'm truly immersed in the world of museums and heritage and would like to think that as a result of that, I kind of understand and appreciate some of the issues and then bring everyone together to actually get in the same room and to talk them through at the show. So, yeah, that's what we're about, really. Andy Povey: In a shorthand and obviously the show. We're in the middle of West London. It's a beautifully sunny day here at Olympia. The show is the culmination, I suppose of 12 months of work. So what actually goes in? What does a normal day look like for you on any month other than May? Anna Preedy: Yeah, it was funny actually. Sometimes people, I think, well, what do you do for the rest of the year? You just turn up to London for a couple of days, just turn up delivering an event like this. And also our award scheme is literally three, six, five days of the year job. So the moment we leave Olympia in London, we're already planning the next event. So it really is all encompassing. So I get involved in a lot. As I say, we're a small team, so I'm the person that tends to do most of the programming for the show. So we have 70 free talks. Everything at the show is free to attend, is free to visit. So we have an extensive programme of talks. We have about 170 exhibitors. Anna Preedy: So I'm, although I have a sales team for that, I'm managing them and looking after that and working with some of those exhibitors and then I'm very much involved in our awards. So the Museums and Heritage Awards look to celebrate and reward the very best in our sector and shine the spotlight on that not just in the UK but around the world. So we have a judging panel and I coordinate that. So pretty much every decision, I mean you look at the colour of the carpet, that which incidentally is bright pink, you look at the colour of the carpet here, who made the decision what colour it would be in the aisles this year it was me. So I, you know, I do get heavily involved in all the nitty gritty as well as the biggest strategic decisions. Andy Povey: Fantastic. Here on the show floor today it is really busy, there are an awful lot of people there. So this is all testament to everything that you've done to make this the success that it is. I'm sure that every exhibitor is going to walk away with maybe not a full order book, but definitely a fistful of business cards. Anna Preedy: I think that's it, what we really want. And we sort of build this event as the big catch up and we do that for a reason. And that is really to kind of give two days of the year people put those in their diary. It's a space where people can come together. So you know, there'll be people here standing on stands who obviously and understandably want to promote their product or service and are looking to generate new business. And then our visitors are looking for those services and enjoying the talks and everyone comes together and it's an opportunity to learn and network and connect and to do business in the broadest possible sense. Really. Andy Povey: No, I think that the line, the big catch up really sums the show up for me. I've been. I think I worked out on the way in this morning. It's the 15th time I've been to the show. It's one of my favourite in the year because it is a fantastic mix of the curatorial, the commercial, everything that goes into running a successful museum or heritage venue. Anna Preedy: I mean, it's funny when people ask me to summarise. I mean, for a start, it's quite difficult. You know, really, it should be museums, galleries, heritage, visitor, attractions, culture. You know, it is a very diverse sector and if you think about everything that goes into making a museum or a gallery or a historic house function, operate, engage, it's as diverse as the organisational types are themselves and we try and bring all of that together. So, you know, whether you are the person that's responsible for generating income in your organisation, and perhaps that might be retail or it might be catering, it could be any. Any stream of income generation, there's going to be content for you here just as much as there's going to be content for you here. Anna Preedy: If you are head of exhibitions or if you are perhaps wearing the marketing hat and actually your job is, you know, communications or audience development, we try and represent the sector in its broadest scope. So there is something for everyone, quite. Andy Povey: Literally, and that's apparent just from looking on the show floor. So with all of your experience in the museum sector, and I suppose you get to see. See quite an awful lot of new stuff, new products. So what are you anticipating happening in the next sort of 6 to 12 months in our sector? Anna Preedy: I mean, that's a big question because, you know, going back to what were just saying, and the kind of different verticals, if you like, that sit within the sector, but I think the obvious one probably has to be AI, and the influence of that. I'm not saying that's going to change everything overnight. It won't, but it's. You can see the ripples already and you can see that reflected out here on the exhibition floor with exhibitors, and you can also see it in our programme. So this sort of AI is only, you know, one aspect of, you know, the bigger, wider digital story. But I just think it's probably more about the sector evolving than it is about, you know, grand sweeping changes in any one direction. Anna Preedy: But the other thing to say, of course, is that as funding gets more the sort of the economic landscape, you know, is tough. Undeniably so. So generating revenue and finding new ways to do that and prioritising it within your organisation, but not at the expense of everything else that's done. And it should never be at the expense of everything else that's done. And it's perfectly possible to do both. Nobody's suggesting that it's easy, nothing's easy but, you know, it's possible. Anna Preedy: And I think the show here, and also what we do online in terms of, you know, news and features, all of that, and what other organisations are doing in this sector, of course, and the partners we work with, but I think just helping kind of bridge that gap really, and to provide solutions and to provide inspiration and actually, you know, there's no need to reinvent the wheel constantly. Actually, I think it was somebody that worked in the sector. I'm reluctant to names, but there was somebody I remember once saying, well, know, stealing with glee is kind of, you know, and I think actually, you know, if you see somebody else is doing something great and actually we see that in our wards, you know, that's the whole point. Let's shine a spotlight on good work. Well, that might inspire someone else. Anna Preedy: It's not about ripping something off and it's not absolute replication. But actually, you know, scalable changes in your organisation that may have been inspired by somebody else's is only a good thing as well. Andy Povey: It's all that evolutionary process, isn't it? So, great experience. Thank you on behalf of everybody that's come to the show today. Anna Preedy: Well, thank you very much. I love doing it, I really genuinely do and there is nothing like the buzz of a busy event. Jon Horsfield: Yeah, My name is Jon Horsfield, I'm the Chief Revenue Officer of Cincio Solutions. Andy Povey: And what does Cincio do? Jon Horsfield: We provide F and B technology, so kiosks, point of sale payments, kitchen systems, inventory, self checkout to the museums, heritage zoos, aquariums and hospitality industries. Andy Povey: Oh, fantastic. So I understand this is your first time here at the Museums and Heritage Show. Jon Horsfield: It is our first time. It's been an interesting learning curve. Andy Povey: Tell me more. Jon Horsfield: Well, our background is very much within the hospitality. We've been operating for about 20 to 23 years within the sort of high street hospitality side of things. Some of our London based listeners may have heard of Leon Restaurants or Coco Di Mama, we've been working with them for over 20 years. But we're looking at ways of bringing that high street technology into other industries and other Verticals and the museums and heritage is a vertical that we've identified as somewhere that could probably do with coming into the 21st century with some of the technology solutions available. Andy Povey: I hear what you're saying. So what do you think of the show? What are your first impressions? Give me your top three tips. Learning points. Jon Horsfield: Firstly, this industry takes a long time to get to know people. It seems to be long lead times. That's the first learning that we've had. Our traditional industry in hospitality, people will buy in this industry. It's going to take some time and we're happy about that. We understand that. So for us, this is about learning about know about how the industry works. Everybody's really friendly. Andy Povey: We try. Yeah. Jon Horsfield: That's one of the first things that we found out with this. This industry is everybody is really friendly and that's quite nice. Even some of our competitors, we're having nice conversations with people. Everybody is really lovely. The third point is the fact that I didn't know that there were so many niche markets and I found out where my mother buys her scarves and Christmas presents from. So it's been really interesting seeing the different types of things that people are looking for. We've sort of noticed that it's really about preservation. That's one of the main areas. There's a lot of things about preservation. Another one is about the display, how things are being displayed, and lots of innovative ways of doing that. But also the bit that we're really interested in is the commercialization. Jon Horsfield: There's a real push within the industry to start to commercialise things and bring in more revenue from the same people. Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's all about securing the destiny so that you're not reliant on funding from external parties or government and you taking that control. So what do you do at Centrio that helps? Jon Horsfield: Well, first of all. First of all, I would say the efficiencies that we can bring with back office systems integrations. We're very well aware of what we do, we're also aware of what we don't do. So, for example, we're not a ticketing provider, we're a specialist retail and F and B supplier. So it's about building those relationships and actually integrating. We've got a lot of integrations available and we're very open to that. So that's the first thing. But one of the key things that we're trying to bring to this industry is the way that you can use technology to increase revenue. So the kiosks that we've got here, it's proven that you'll get a minimum average transaction value increase of 10 to 15%. Andy Povey: And what do you put that down to? Jon Horsfield: The ability to upsell. Okay, with kiosks, as long as, if you put, for example, with a burger, if you just have a nice little button, say would you like the bacon fries with that? It's an extra few pounds. Well, actually if you've got an extra few pounds on every single transaction, that makes an incredible difference to the bottom line. From the same number of customers. Some of our clients over in the USA have seen an ATV increase above to 60% with the use of kiosks. Andy Povey: And that's just through selling additional fries. Jon Horsfield: Exactly. People will. I went to a talk many years ago when people started to adopt kiosks and the traditional thing is the fact that people will order two Big Macs and a fries to a kiosk, but when you go face to face, they will not order two Big Macs and a fries. Andy Povey: So you're saying I'm a shy fatty who's basically. Jon Horsfield: Absolutely not. Absolutely not, Andy. Absolutely not. So that's really what it's about. It's about using the sort of the high street technology and applying that to a different industry and trying to bring everybody along with us. Dominic Jones: And you need to listen to the Skip the Queue. It's the best podcast series ever. It'll give you this industry. Paul Marden: Perfect. That was a lovely little sound bite. Dom, welcome. Dominic Jones: It's the truth. It's the truth. I love Skip the Queue. Paul Marden: Welcome back to Skip the Queue. Paul, welcome. For your first time, let's just start with a quick introduction. Dom, tell everybody about yourself. Dominic Jones: So I'm Dominic Jones, I'm the chief executive of the Mary Rose Trust and I'm probably one of Skip the Queue's biggest fans. Paul Marden: I love it. And biggest stars. Dominic Jones: Well, I don't know. At one point I was number one. Paul Marden: And Paul, what about yourself? What's your world? Paul Woolf: Well, I'm Paul Woolf, I've just joined the Mary Rose as a trustee. Dom's been kind of hunting me down politely for a little bit of time. When he found out that I left the King's Theatre, he was very kind and said, right, you know, now you've got time on your hands, you know, would you come over and help? So yeah, so my role is to support Dom and to just help zhuzh things up a bit, which is kind of what I do and just bring some new insights into the business and to develop It a bit. And look at the brand, which is where my skills. Dominic Jones: Paul is underselling himself. He is incredible. And the Mary Rose Trust is amazing. You haven't visited. You should visit. We're in Portsmouth Historic Dock blog. But what's great about it is it's about attracting great people. I'm a trustee, so I'm a trustee for good whites. I'm a trustee for pomp in the community. I know you're a trustee for kids in museums. I love your posts and the fact that you come visit us, but it's about getting the right team and the right people and Paul has single handedly made such a difference to performance art in the country, but also in Portsmouth and before that had a massive career in the entertainment. So we're getting a talent. It's like getting a Premiership player. And we got Paul Woolf so I am delighted. Dominic Jones: And we brought him here to the Museum Heritage show to say this is our industry because we want him to get sucked into it because he is going to be incredible. You honestly, you'll have a whole episode on him one day. Paul Marden: And this is the place to come, isn't it? Such a buzz about the place. Paul Woolf: I've gone red. I've gone red. Embarrassed. Paul Marden: So have you seen some talks already? What's been impressive for you so far, Paul? Paul Woolf: Well, we did actually with the first talk we were listening to was all about touring and reducing your environmental impact on touring, which is quite interesting. And what I said there was that, you know, as time gone by and we had this a little bit at theatre actually. But if you want to go for grant funding today, the first question on the grant funding form, almost the first question after the company name and how much money you want is environmental impact. Paul Marden: Yeah, yeah. Paul Woolf: And so if you're going tour and we're looking now, you know, one of the things that Dom and I have been talking about is, you know, Mary Rose is brilliant. It's fantastic. You know, it's great. It's in the dockyard in Portsmouth and you know, so. And, and the Andes, New York, you know, everywhere. Dominic Jones: Take her on tour. Paul Woolf: Why isn't it on tour? Yeah. Now I know there are issues around on tour. You know, we've got the collections team going. Yeah, don't touch. But nonetheless it was interesting listening to that because obviously you've got to. Now you can't do that. You can't just put in a lorry, send it off and. And so I thought that was quite interesting. Dominic Jones: Two, it's all the industry coming together. It's not about status. You can come here as a student or as a CEO and you're all welcome. In fact, I introduced Kelly from Rubber Cheese, your company, into Andy Povey and now you guys have a business together. And I introduced them here in this spot outside the men's toilets at Museum and Heritage. Paul Woolf: Which is where we're standing, by the way. Everybody, we're outside the toilet. Dominic Jones: It's the networking, it's the talks. And we're about to see Bernard from ALVA in a minute, who'll be brilliant. Paul Marden: Yes. Dominic Jones: But all of these talks inspire you and then the conversations and just seeing you Andy today, I'm so delighted. And Skip the Queue. He's going from strength to strength. I love the new format. I love how you're taking it on tour. You need to bring it to the May Rose next. Right. Paul Marden: I think we might be coming sometimes soon for a conference near you. Dominic Jones: What? The Association of Independent Museums? Paul Marden: You might be doing an AIM conference with you. Dominic Jones: Excellent. Paul Marden: Look, guys, it's been lovely to talk to you. Enjoy the rest of your day here at M and H. Paul Marden: Stephen, welcome back to Skip the Queue. Stephen Spencer: Thank you very much. Paul Marden: For listeners, remind them what you do. Stephen Spencer: So I'm Stephen Spencer. My company, Stephen Spencer Associates, we call ourselves the Ambience Architects because we try to help every organisation gain deeper insight into the visitor experience as it's actually experienced by the visitor. I know it sounds a crazy idea, really, to achieve better impact and engagement from visitors and then ultimately better sustainability in all senses for the organisation. Paul Marden: For listeners, the Ambience Lounge here at M and H is absolutely rammed at the moment. Stephen Spencer: I'm trying to get in myself. Paul Marden: I know, it's amazing. So what are you hoping for this networking lounge? Stephen Spencer: Well, what we're aiming to do is create a space for quality conversations, for people to meet friends and contacts old and new, to discover new technologies, new ideas or just really to come and have a sounding board. So we're offering free one to one advice clinic. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Stephen Spencer: Across a whole range of aspects of the visitor journey, from core mission to revenue generation and storytelling. Because I think, you know, one of the things we see most powerfully being exploited by the successful organisations is that kind of narrative thread that runs through the whole thing. What am I about? Why is that important? Why should you support me? How do I deliver that and more of it in every interaction? Paul Marden: So you're Having those sorts of conversations here with people on a one to one basis. Stephen Spencer: Then we also are hosting the structured networking event. So all of the sector support organisations that are here, they have scheduled networking events when really people can just come and meet their peers and swap experiences and again find new people to lean on and be part of an enriched network. Paul Marden: Absolutely. So we are only half a day in, not even quite half a day into a two day programme. So it's very early to say, but exciting conversations, things are going in the direction that you hoped for. Stephen Spencer: Yes, I think, I mean, we know that the sector is really challenged at the moment, really, the fact that we're in now such a crazy world of total constant disruption and uncertainty. But equally we offer something that is reassuring, that is enriching, it's life enhancing. We just need to find better ways to, to do that and reach audiences and reach new audiences and just keep them coming back. And the conversations that I've heard so far have been very much around that. So it's very exciting. Paul Marden: Excellent. One of themes of this episode that we'll be talking to lots of people about is a little bit of crystal ball gazing. You're right, the world is a hugely, massively disrupted place at the moment. But what do you see the next six or 12 months looking like and then what does it look like for the sector in maybe a five year time horizon? Stephen Spencer: Okay, well, you don't ask easy questions. So I think there will be a bit of a kind of shaking down in what we understand to be the right uses of digital technology, AI. I think we see all the mistakes that were made with social media and what it's literally done to the world. And whilst there are always examples of, let's say, museums using social media very cleverly and intelligently, we know that's against the backdrop of a lot of negativity and harm. So why would we want to repeat that, for example, with generative AI? Paul Marden: Indeed. Stephen Spencer: So I heard a talk about two years ago at the VAT conference about using AI to help the visitor to do the stuff that is difficult for them to do. In other words, to help them build an itinerary that is right for them. And I think until everyone is doing that, then they should be very wary of stepping off the carpet to try and do other things with it. Meanwhile, whilst it's an immersive experience, it is not just sitting in, you know, with all respect to those that do this, A, you know, surround sound visual box, it is actually what it's always been, which is meeting real people in authentic spaces and places, you know, using all the senses to tell stories. So I think we will need to see. Stephen Spencer: I've just been given a great coffee because that's the other thing we're offering in the coffee. It's good coffee. Not saying you can't get anywhere else in the show, just saying it's good here. Yeah. I think just some realism and common sense creeping into what we really should be using these technologies for and not leaving our visitors behind. I mean, for example, you know, a huge amount of the natural audience for the cultural sector. You know, people might not want to hear it, but we all know it's true. It's older people. And they aren't necessarily wanting to have to become digital natives to consume culture. So we shouldn't just say, you know, basically, unless you'll download our app, unless you'll do everything online, you're just going to be left behind. That's crazy. It doesn't make good business sense and it's not right. Stephen Spencer: So I just think some common sense and some. Maybe some regulation that will happen around uses of AI that might help and also, you know, around digital harms and just getting back to some basics. I was talking to a very old colleague earlier today who had just come back from a family holiday to Disney World, and he said, you know, you can't beat it, you cannot beat it. For that is immersive. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. But it's not sealed in a box. Stephen Spencer: No, no. And it really. It's a bit like Selfridges. I always took out. My favourite store is Selfridges. It still does what Harry Gordon Selfridge set out to do. He said, "Excite the mind and the hand will reach for the pocket." I always say. He didn't say excite the eye, he said, excite the mind. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Spencer: The way you do that is through all the senses. Paul Marden: Amazing. Stephen Spencer: And so, you know, digital. I'm sure he'd be embracing that. He would be saying, what about the rest of it? Paul Marden: How do you add the human touch to that? Yeah. I was at Big Pit last week. Stephen Spencer: As they reopened, to see this. Yeah. Paul Marden: And it was such an amazing experience walking through that gift shop. They have so subtly brought the museum into the gift shop and blended the two really well. Stephen Spencer: Yes. And I think that raises the bar. And again, if you want to make more money as a museum, you need to be embracing that kind of approach, because if you just carry on doing what you've always done, your revenue will go down. Paul Marden: Yes. Stephen Spencer: And we all know your revenue needs to go up because other. Other sources of income will be going down. Paul Marden: Sarah, welcome back to Skip the Queue last time you were here, there was a much better looking presenter than, you were in the Kelly era. Sarah Bagg: Yes, we were. Paul Marden: It's almost as if there was a demarcation line before Kelly and after Kelly. Why don't you just introduce yourself for me? Tell the listeners what it is that you do. Sarah Bagg: So I'm Sarah Bagg. I'm the founder of Rework Consulting. The last time I spoke, it wasn't that long after our launch. I think like two and a half years ago. We've just had our third birthday. Paul Marden: Wow. Sarah Bagg: Which is completely incredible. When we first launched rework, were specifically for the visitor attractions industry and focused on ticketing. Paul Marden: Yep. Sarah Bagg: So obviously we are a tech ticketing consultancy business. In the last three and a half years we've grown and now have five verticals. So attractions are one of them. Paul Marden: And who else do you work with then? Sarah Bagg: So the art, the leisure industry. So whether it be activity centres, cinemas, bowling centres and then live entertainment. So it could be anything from sports, festivals etc and the arts, like theatres or. Paul Marden: So closely aligned to your attractions. Then things that people go and do but different kinds of things loosely. Sarah Bagg: Say they're like live entertainment. Paul Marden: I like that. That's a nice description. So this must be Mecca for you to have all of these people brought together telling amazing stories. Sarah Bagg: I think how I would sum up museum and heritage today is that I think we're kind of going through a period of like being transformed, almost like back. People are reconstructing, connecting with real experiences and with people. Paul Marden: Yeah. Sarah Bagg: And I would like to think that tech is invisible and they're just to support the experience. I think there's a lot of things that are going on at the moment around, you know, bit nostalgia and people dragging themselves back to the 90s. And there's a lot of conversations about people and customer service and experience. And although technology plays a huge part in that, I would still like to think that people come first and foremost, always slightly weird from a technology consultant. Paul Marden: Well, nobody goes to a visitor attraction to be there on their own and interact with technology. That's not the point of being there. Yeah. Interesting talks that you've been today. Sarah Bagg: I think one of my favourite was actually one of the first of the day, which was about. Of how do you enhance the visitor experience through either like music and your emotions and really tapping into how you feel through, like all your different senses. Which was one of Stephen's talks which I really enjoyed. Paul Marden: That's really interesting. Sarah Bagg: I think if people like look at the visitor industry and across the board, that's why I'm so keen to stay, like across four different sectors, we can learn so much pulling ideas from like hospitality and restaurants and bars.Paul Marden: Completely. Sarah Bagg: Even if you think about like your best, there's a new bar there, so you can not very far from my home in Brighton and the service is an amazing. And the design of the space really caters for whether you're in there with 10 people or whether you're sat at the bar on your own. It doesn't exclude people, depending on what age you are or why you gone into the bar. And I think we can learn a lot in the visitor attractions industry because there's been a lot of talk about families today. I don't have children and I think that there, you need. Sarah Bagg: We need to think more about actually that lots of other people go to visitor attractions Paul Marden: Completely. Sarah Bagg: And they don't necessarily take children and they might want to go on their own. Yes, but what are we doing to cater for all of those people? There's nothing. Paul Marden: How do you make them feel welcome? How do you make them feel like they're a first class guest? The same as everybody else. Yeah. So where do you see the sector going over the next few years based on what you've seen today? Sarah Bagg: I think there'll be a lot more diversification between sectors. There's definitely a trend where people have got their assets. You know, like if you're looking at things like safari parks and zoos, places that have already got accommodation, but maybe like stately houses where there used to be workers that were living in those cottages or whatever, that they're sweating their assets. I think it would be interesting to see where tech takes us with that because there has been a tradition in the past that if you've got like, if your number one priority to sell is being like your hotel, then you would have like a PMS solution. But if it's the other way around, your number one priority is the attraction or the venue and you happen to have some accommodation, then how is that connecting to your online journey? Sarah Bagg: Because the last thing you want is like somebody having to do two separate transactions. Paul Marden: Oh, completely drives me crazy. Sarah Bagg: One thing I would also love to see is attractions thinking beyond their 10 till 6 opening hours completely. Because some days, like restaurants, I've seen it, you know, maybe they now close on Mondays and Tuesdays so they can give their staff a day off and they have different opening hours. Why are attractions still fixated in like keeping these standard opening hours? Because actually you might attract a completely different audience. There used to be a bit of a trend for like doing museum late. So I was speaking to a museum not very long ago about, you know, do they do like morning tours, like behind the scenes, kind of before it even opens. And I think the museum particularly said to me, like, "Oh, we're fine as we are.". Paul Marden: I've never met a museum that feels fine where it is at the moment. Sarah Bagg: But I guess the one thing I would love to see if I could sprinkle my fairy dus. Paul Marden: Come the revolution and you're in charge. Sarah Bagg: And it's not like, it's not even like rocket science, it's more investment into training and staff because the people that work in our industry are like the gold, you know, it's not tech, it's not pretty set works, it's not like fancy display cases. Yes, the artefacts and stuff are amazing. Paul Marden: But the stories, the people stuff. Yeah. Sarah Bagg: Give them empowerment and training and make the customer feel special. Paul Marden: Yes. Sarah Bagg: When you leave, like you've had that experience, you're only ever going to get that from through the people that you interact with completely. Paul Marden: Jeremy, hello. Welcome to Skip the Queue. We are, we are being slightly distracted by a dinosaur walking behind us. Such is life at M and H show. Jeremy Mitchell: Yeah. Paul Marden: So. Jeremy Mitchell: Well, anything to do with museums and dinosaurs, always great crowd pleasers. Paul Marden: Exactly, exactly. So is this your first time at M and H or have you been before? Jeremy Mitchell: Been before, but probably not for 10 years or more. It was, yes. I remember last time I came the theatres were enclosed so they were partitioned all the way around. Paul Marden: Right. Jeremy Mitchell: But because it's so popular now that would not just not would not work. It's a long time ago. It shows how long I've been volunteering. Paul Marden: In museums, doesn't it? So for our listeners, Jeremy, just introduce yourself and tell everyone about the role that you've got at the Petersfield Museum. Jeremy Mitchell: Okay, so I'm Jeremy Mitchell. I'm a trustee at Petersfield Museum now Petersfield Museum and Art Gallery. I'm actually now chair of trustees. Paul Marden: Paint a little picture for us of Petersfield Museum then. What could someone expect if they came to you? Apart from, as I understand, a very good cup of coffee. Jeremy Mitchell: A very good cup of coffee. Best in Petersfield. And that's not bad when there are 32 competitors. You'll get a little bit of everything you'll get a bit of. You'll get the story of Petersfield, but you'll get so much more. We've got collections of costume going back to the mid 18th century. We've got work of a local artist, Flora Torte, one of those forgotten female artists from between the wars. She's a story that we will be exploring. We've got, in partnership with the Edward Thomas Fellowship, a big archive of books and other artefacts by and about Edward Thomas, who was a poet, writer, literary critic. He's one of the poets killed in the First World War. But he's not well known as a war poet because he was writing about the impact of war on life at home. Jeremy Mitchell: So he's now more well known as a nature poet. Paul Marden: So you're telling the story not just of the place, you're telling the story of the people that have produced great art or had an impact on Petersfield. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. And their networks and how they might relate to Petersfield in turn. And we've got the costume collection I mentioned going back to the mid 18th century, which came from Bedale School. They've all got stories to them. Paul Marden: Interesting. Jeremy Mitchell: This came from Bedale School, which is a private school on the edge of Petersfield. It was actually collected by their drama teacher between the 1950s and the 1970s. Paul Marden: Wow. Jeremy Mitchell: Because she believed in authenticity. So if she was putting on a 19th century production, she would want genuine 19th century clothes. Paul Marden: Let me tell you, my drama productions in a 1980s comprehensive did not include authentic 19th century costumes. Jeremy Mitchell: If were doing something like that at school, their parents would have been, all right, go down to the jumble sale, buy some material, make something that looks something like it. Paul Marden: Yeah. Jeremy Mitchell: But no, she was, well, if you haven't got anything in your attic that's suitable, please send me some money because there's a sale at Sotheby's in three months. Time off costume from the period. Paul Marden: Excellent. Jeremy Mitchell: And we've got some lovely pieces in there. When we put on the Peggy Guggenheim exhibition, which is what were talking about earlier today here, were able to bring in costume from the 1930s, Chanel dress, other high quality, not. Not necessarily worn by Peggy Guggenheim, but her. Paul Marden: Authentic of the period. Jeremy Mitchell: Authentic of the period. But her son was at Bedale, so she could have been asked to donate. Paul Marden: So. Okay. Jeremy Mitchell: Highly unlikely, but it was similar to items that she had been photographed in or would have been. Would have been wearing. Paul Marden: So tell me about the. The presentation. How was that? Jeremy Mitchell: It went so quickly. Paul Marden: Oh, yes. You get in the zone don't you? Jeremy Mitchell: You get in the zone. But it flowed and Louise was great. Louise had done the bulk of the. The work. She prepared the presentation that visually told the story of the exhibition and its outcomes and impacts. And I filled in the boring book, I call it the BBC, the boring but crucial. How we funded it, how we organised the project, management around it, the planning and getting buy in from the rest of the trustees at the beginning, because it was potentially a big financial commitment if we hadn't been able to fund it. Paul Marden: Isn't it interesting? So coming to an event like this is always. There's always so much to learn, it's always an enriching experience to come. But it's a great opportunity, isn't it, for a small museum and art gallery such as Petersfield? It feels a little bit like you're punching above your weight, doesn't it, to be invited onto this stage to talk about it. But really you're telling this amazing story and it's of interest to everybody that's here. Jeremy Mitchell: We want to share it. If we've been able to do it, then why can't they? Why can't you? Why can't we all do it? And yes, you need the story, but if you dig deep enough, those stories are there. Paul Marden: Absolutely, Absolutely. One of the things that is a real common conversation here, M and H, is looking forward, crystal ball gazing, talking. There's challenges in the sector, isn't there? There's lots of challenges around funding and I guess as a small museum, you must feel those choppy waters quite acutely. Jeremy Mitchell: Definitely. I mean, we're an independent museum, so we're not affected by spending cuts because we don't get any funding from that area. But the biggest challenge is from the funding perspective. Yes, we have a big income gap every year that we need to bridge. And now that so much more of the sector is losing what was its original core funding, they're all fishing in the same pond as us and they've got. Invariably they've got a fundraising team probably bigger than our entire museum team, let alone the volunteer fundraiser that we've got. So, yes, it is a challenge and you are having to run faster just to stand still. The ability to put on an exhibition like Peggy Guggenheim shows that we are worth it. Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. Jeremy Mitchell: And the Guggenheim was funded by Art Fund Western loan programme and an Arts Council project grant. And it was a large Arts Council project grant. Paul Marden: So although everyone's fishing in the same pond as you're managing to yeah. To stretch my analogy just a little bit too far, you are managing to. To get some grant funding and. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. Paul Marden: And lift some tiddlers out the pond. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. But it was quite clear that with Peggy it was a story that had to be told. Paul Marden: So we talked a little bit about challenging times. But one of the big opportunities at M and H is to be inspired to think about where the opportunities are going forwards. You've had a day here today. What are you thinking as inspiration as next big things for Petersfield Museum. Jeremy Mitchell: I'm finding that really difficult because we're small, we're a small site, Arkansas, I think has got to be a way forward. I miss the talk. But they're all being recorded. Paul Marden: Yes. Jeremy Mitchell: So I shall be picking that one up with interest. But AR is something. We've got police cells. Well, we've got a police cell. Paul Marden: Okay. Jeremy Mitchell: Now, wouldn't it be great to tell an augmented reality story of Victorian justice to kids? Paul Marden: Yes. Jeremy Mitchell: While they're sat in a victory in a Victorian police cell on a hard wooden bench. That is the original bench that this prisoners would have slept on. Paul Marden: I've done enough school visits to know there's enough kids that I could put in a jail just to keep them happy or to at least keep them quiet whilst the rest of us enjoy our visit. Yes. I feel like I need to come to Petersfield and talk more about Peggy because I think there might be an entire episode of Skip the Queue to talk just about putting on a big exhibition like that. Jeremy Mitchell: Yeah, no, definitely. If you drop me an email you can skip the queue and I'll take you around. Paul Marden: Oh lovely, Rachel, welcome to Skip the Queue. You join me here at M and H show. And we've taken over someone's stand, haven't we? I know, it feels a bit weird, doesn't it? Rachel Kuhn: I feel like we're squatting but I. Paul Marden: Feel a little bit like the Two Ronnies, cuz we're sat behind the desk. It's very strange. Which one are you? Anyway, just for listeners. Introduce yourself for me. Tell listeners what it is that you do at BOP Consulting. Rachel Kuhn: Yeah, so I'm Rachel Kuhn, I'm an associate director at BOP and we specialise in culture and the creative economy and kind of working across everything that is to do with culture and creative economy globally. But I lead most of our strategy and planning projects, particularly in the UK and Ireland, generally working with arts, heritage, cultural organisations, from the very earliest big picture strategy through to real nitty gritty sort of operational plans and outside of bop. I'm a trustee for Kids in Museums, where we love to hang, and also a new trustee with the Postal Museum. Paul Marden: Given what you do at bop, this must be like the highlight of the year for you to just soak up what everybody is doing. Rachel Kuhn: I love it. I mean, it's so lovely just going around, chatting to everybody, listening in on the talks and I think that spirit of generosity, you know, like, it just comes across, doesn't it? And it just reminds me why I love this sector, why I'm here. You know, everyone wants to, you know, contribute and it's that whole sort of spirit of what do they say? We know when the tide rises, so do all the boats or all the ships. And I feel like that's the spirit here and it's lovely. Paul Marden: It is such a happy place and it's such a busy, vibrant space, isn't it? What have been the standout things for you that you've seen today? Rachel Kuhn: I think probably on that spirit of generosity. Rosie Baker at the founding museum talking about the incredible work they've done with their events, hires, programmes. Obviously got to give a shout out to the Association of Cultural Enterprise. I've been doing a lot of hanging out there at their stage day. So Gurdon gave us the rundown of the benchmarking this morning. Some really good takeaways from that and Rachel Mackay, I mean, like, obviously. Paul Marden: Want to go into. Rachel Kuhn: You always want to see her. Really good fun, but lovely to hear. She's talking about her strategy, the Visitor Experience strategy. And you know what, I spend so much time going into places looking at these sub strategies, like visual experience strategies that just haven't been written in alignment with the overall strategy. So it's lovely to see that linking through, you know, and obviously I'm from a Visitor Experience background, so hugely passionate about the way that Visitor Experience teams can make visitors feel the organization's values. And that alignment was really impressive. So, yeah, really lovely and loads of great takeaways from all those talks. Paul Marden: I will just say for listeners, all of these talks have been recorded, so everyone's going to be able to download the materials. It take a couple of weeks before they were actually published. But one of the questions that I've asked everybody in these vox pops has been, let's do some crystal ball gazing. It's. It stinks at the moment, doesn't it? The, the, the economy is fluctuating, there is so much going on. What do you see 6 to 12 month view look like? And then let's really push the boat out. Can we crystal ball gaze maybe in five years? Rachel Kuhn: Yeah.  I mean, look, I think the whole problem at the moment and what's causing that sort of nervousness is there's just a complete lack of surety about loads of things. You know, in some ways, you know, many organisations have welcomed the extension for the MPO round, the current round, but for many, you know, that's just pushed back the opportunity to get in on that round that little bit further away. It's caused that sort of nervousness with organisations are having to ride on with the same funding that they asked for some years ago that just doesn't, you know, match, you know, and it's actually a real time cut for them. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Rachel Kuhn: So I think, very hard to say, I don't know that there's much I can say. I feel like as at sea as everyone else, I think about what the landscape looks like in the next six months, but I think that never has there been, you know, a better time than something like this like the M and H show. You know, this is about coming together and being generous and sharing that information and I think reaching out to each other and making sure that we're sort of cross pollinating there. There's so much good stuff going on and we've always been really good at that and I think sometimes when we're feeling a bit down, it feels like, oh, I just don't want to go to something like this and meet others and, you know, get into a bit of a misery cycle. Rachel Kuhn: But actually it's so uplifting to be at something like this. And I think, you know, what we've seen here is at the show today, I think, is organisations being really generous with their experience and their expertise. Suppliers and consultants and supporters of the sector being really generous with their time and their expertise and actually just shows just spending a bit of time with each other, asking things of each other. We've just got loads of stuff to share and we're all really up for it. And I think that generosity is so critical and I mean, obviously I'm going to plug, I've got to plug it. Rachel Kuhn: So, you know, if you are a supplier, if you are a commercial business working in this sector, it might be tough times for you, but it's certainly nowhere near as hard as it is for the arts and cultural heritage organisations in the sector. You know, reach out to them and see how you can support them and help them. I mean, you and I have both been on a bit of a drive recently to try and drum up some sponsorship and corporate support for kids in museums who, you know, an Arts council MPO who we're incredible, incredibly proud to represent and, you know, do reach out to us. If you've been thinking, oh, I just want to sponsor something and I'd love to sponsor us. Paul Marden: Exactly. I mean, there's loads of opportunities when you take kids in museums as an example, loads of opportunities for. And this is what Arts Council wants us to do. They want us to be more independent, to generate more of our own funding and we've got a great brand, we do some amazing work and there's lots of opportunities for those commercial organisations who align with our values to help to support us. Rachel Kuhn: So I think you asked me there about what's in the next year. So next year, six months, I don't know is the answer. I think it's just a difficult time. So my advice is simply get out there, connect, learn from each other, energise each other, bring each other up. Let's not get into that sort of doom cycle. That's very easy next five years. You know what, I've had some really interesting meetings and conversations over the last. Well, one particularly interesting one today, some other ones about some funds that might be opening up, which I think is really exciting. You know, we've seen this really big challenge with funding, you know, slowing funding going in much larger amounts to a smaller number of large organisations and that causes real problems. But I think there might be a small turnaround on that. Rachel Kuhn: I'm not crumbs in the earth. I think it's still tough times. But that was really exciting to hear about. I'm also seeing here at the show today. I've been speaking to a lot of suppliers whose their models seem to be shifting a lot. So a lot more opportunities here where it requires no investment from the attraction and a lot more sort of interesting and different types of profit share models, which I think is really interesting. So I think the other thing I'd say is if you're an attraction, don't discount partnering some of these organisations because actually, you know, go and talk to them. Rachel Kuhn: Don't just, don't just count them out because you think you haven't got anything to invest because many of them are visiting new models and the couple that I've spoken to who aren't, learn from your competitors and start doing some different models. And I think that's been really interesting to hear some very different models here for some of the products, which is really exciting. Paul Marden: It is really hard sitting on the other side of the fence, as a supplier, we need cash flow as well. We've got to pay bills and all of those sorts of things. But you're right, there are interesting ways in which we all want to have a conversation. As you say, don't sit back afraid to engage in the conversation because you've got nothing to invest, you've got an important brand, you've got an audience. Those are valuable assets that a supplier like us would want to partner with you to help you to bring a project to life. And that might be on a rev share model, it might be on a service model. There's lots of different ways you can slice it and dice it. Rachel Kuhn: And going back, on a closing note, I suppose, going back to that generosity thing, don't think because you haven't got any money to commission, you know, a supplier to the sector or a commercial company, that you can't reach out to them. Like, you know, we are in this because we really want to support these organisations. This is our passion. You know, many of us are from the sector. You know, I will always connect somebody or introduce somebody or find a way to get a little bit of pro bono happening, or, you know, many of my colleagues are on advisory committees, we're board members. And I think that's the same for so many of the companies that are, like, working with the sector. You know, reach out and ask for freebie, you know, don't ask, don't get. Paul Marden: Yeah, exactly. Rachel, it is delightful to talk to you as always. Thank you for joining us on Skip the Queue and I am sure, I'm sure we'll make this into a full episode one day soon. I do say that to everybody. Rachel Kuhn: Thanks so much. Lovely to speak to you. Paul Marden: Andy. Andy Povey: Paul.Paul Marden: We've just walked out of the M and H show for another year. What are your thoughts? Andy Povey: First, I'm exhausted, absolutely exhausted. I'm not sure that I can talk anymore because I've spent 48 hours having some of the most interesting conversations I've had all year. Paul Marden: No offence, Tonkin. Andy Povey: You were part of some of those conversations, obviously, Paul. Paul Marden: I was bowled over again by just the sheer number of people that were there and all those lovely conversations and everybody was just buzzing for the whole two days. Andy Povey: The energy was phenomenal. I worked out that something like the 15th show, M & H show that I've been to, and I don't know whether it's just recency because it's sitting in the far front of my mind at the moment, but it seems like this was the busiest one there's ever been. Paul Marden: Yeah, I can believe it. The one thing that didn't change, they're still working on Olympia. Andy Povey: I think that just goes on forever. It's like the fourth Bridge. Paul Marden: Talks that stood out to you. Andy Povey: I really enjoyed interpretation One led by the guy from the sign language education company whose name I can't remember right now. Paul Marden: Yeah, Nate. That was an amazing talk, listeners. We will be getting him on for a full interview. I'm going to solve the problem of how do I make a inherently audio podcast into something that's accessible for deaf people? By translating the podcast medium into some sort of BSL approach. So that was the conversation that we had yesterday after the talk. Andy Povey: I know. I really look forward to that. Then, of course, there was the George and Elise from Complete Works. Paul Marden: I know. They were amazing, weren't they? You couldn't tell at all that they were actors. Do you know, it was really strange when George. So there was a point in that talk that George gave where we all had a collective breathing exercise and it was just. It was. It was so brilliantly done and were all just captivated. There must have been. I rechon there was 100 people at theatre at that point. Absolutely. Because it was standing room only at the back. And were all just captivated by George. Just doing his click. Very, very clever. Andy Povey: But massively useful. I've seen the same thing from George before and I still use it to this day before going on to make a presentation myself. Paul Marden: Yeah, yeah. Andy Povey: Just grounding yourself, centering yourself. Well, it's fantastic. Paul Marden: Yeah. But the whole thing that they were talking about of how do we create opportunities to have meaningful conversations with guests when they arrive or throughout their entire experience at an attraction so that we don't just talk about the weather like we're typical English people. Andy Povey: That's great, isn't it? Go and tell a Brit not to talk. Talk about the weather. Paul Marden: But training your staff makes absolute sense. Training your staff to have the skills and the confidence to not talk about the weather. I thought that was really interesting. Andy Povey: It's an eye opener, isn't it? Something really simple, but could be groundbreaking. Paul Marden: Yeah. Andy Povey: Then what was your view on all of the exhibitors? What did you take away from all the stands and everybody? Paul Marden: Well, I loved having my conversation yesterday with Alan Turing. There was an AI model of Alan Turing that you could interact with and ask questions. And it was really interesting. There was a slight latency, so it didn't feel quite yet like a natural conversation because I would say something. And then there was a pause as Alan was thinking about it. But the things that he answered were absolutely spot on, the questions that I asked. So I thought that was quite interesting. Other exhibitors. Oh, there was a lovely point yesterday where I was admiring, there was a stand doing custom designed socks and I was admiring a design of a Jane Austen sock and there was just somebody stood next to me and I just said, "Oh, Jane Austen socks." Paul Marden: Very on Trend for the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen, that all of the museums in Hampshire will be buying those up. And should funnily you should say that I'm the chief executive of Chawton Park House, which is one of the museums in the last place that Jane Austen lived. So very interesting, very small world moment at that point. Andy Povey: I do, it's almost an oxymoron to talk about Jane Austen socks. I don't imagine her having worn anything with nylon or Lycra in it. Paul Marden: Very true. I hadn't tweaked that. Andy Povey: There was a lot of AI there wasn't there AI this, AI that. Paul Marden: And there were some really good examples of where that is being used in real life. Yeah, yeah. So there were some examples where there's AI being used to help with visitor counts around your attraction, to help you to optimise where you need to put people. I thought that Neil at Symantec just talking about what he called answer engine optimisation. That was interesting. There were some brilliant questions. There was one question from an audience member asking, are there any tools available for you to figure out whether how well your organisation is doing at being the source of truth for AI tools? Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah. So almost like your Google search engine ranking. Paul Marden: But exactly for ChatGPT. Andy Povey: And have you found one yet? Paul Marden: No, not yet. There's also quite a lot of people talking about ideas that have yet to find a home. Andy Povey: Yes. What a very beautiful way of putting it. Paul Marden: The people that have. That are presenting a topic that has yet to get a real life case study associated with it. So the rubber hasn't yet hit the road. I don't think on that. Andy Povey: No. I think that's true for an awful lot of AI, isn't it? Not just in our sector. Paul Marden: No. Andy Povey: It's very interesting to see where that's all going to go. And what are we going to think when we look back on this in two or three years time? Was it just another chocolate teapot or a problem looking for a solution? Or was it the revolution that we all anticipate. Paul Marden: And I think it will make fundamentals change. I think it's changing rapidly. But we need more real case studies of how you can do something interesting that is beyond just using ChatGPT to write your marketing copy for you. Andy Povey: Yeah, I mean it's all about putting the guest at the front of it, isn't it? Let's not obsess about the technology, let's look at what the technology is going to enable us to do. And back to the first part of this conversation, looking at accessibility, then are there tools within AI that are going to help with that? Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. So there was definitely. There was an interesting talk by Vox. The people that provide, they provide all of the radio boxes for everybody to wear at M and H that provides you with the voiceover of all of the speakers. But they use this technology across all manner of different attractions and they were talking about using AI to do real time translation of tours. So you could. Andy Povey: Very interesting. Paul Marden: Yeah. So you could have an English speaker wandering around doing your tour and it could real time translate up to. I think it was up to four languages. Andy Povey: BSL not being one of those languages. Paul Marden: Well, no, they were talking about real time in app being able to see subtitles. Now, I don't know whether they went on to say you could do BSL. And we know from the other presentation that not everybody that is deaf is able to read subtitles as fast as they can consume sign language. So it's important to have BSL. But there were some parts of that Vox product that did it address deaf people. It wasn't just multilingual content. Andy Povey: So AI people, if you're listening, you can take the idea of translating into BSL in real time and call it your own. Paul Marden: Yeah, we very much enjoyed hosting our theatre, didn't we? That was a lot. And Anna, if you are listening, and I hope you are, because lots of people have said very nice things in this episode about M and H. Andy and I would love to come back next year. Andy Povey: Absolutely. Paul Marden: And host a theatre for you. Any other thoughts? Andy Povey: Just really looking forward to the rest of the week off. Yeah, it's a sign of a good show when you walk away with all that positive feeling and that positive exhaustion and you probably need a week to reflect on all of the conversations that we've had. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Next up we is AIM Conference at Mary Rose in June. I can't wait very much. Looking forward to that. Thank you ever so much for listening. We will join you again in a few weeks. See you soon. Bye Bye. Andy Povey: Draw.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm.  The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the 2024 Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

What's in a name? Rather a lot, as Jane and Fi discover in this email-only episode. They also discuss gardening, Slough, Bruce Springsteen, and Laura Ashley. Plus, they read out your responses to an email from Thursday's episode... And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: janeandfi@times.radioThe next book club pick has been announced! We'll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession. Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Veterinary Leadership Success Show, I'm joined by Mike Porteous – a Level 3 Triathlon Coach, British Triathlon mentor, and the founder of Zig Zag Alive. Mike's coaching journey spans over two decades, guiding athletes from wobbly first-timers to seasoned competitors with his unique approach to coaching and self-belief.But Mike's expertise doesn't stop at sports. He's also a Swim England instructor teaching children with disabilities through the charity Level Water, and he's written for the Outdoor Swimming Society, sharing his insights on preparing for big swims and other endurance challenges. Before diving into the world of Lycra and Ironman races, Mike was a social scientist with a PhD, an MBA, and a civil service career – a background that has deeply influenced his coaching philosophy.We explore the core principles of his method, 'Confidence-Centered Coaching,' and unpack how his diverse career journey informs his work with athletes today. From breaking the hamster wheel of habitual overwork to building sustainable, self-belief-driven progress, Mike shares powerful insights on how leaders in any field – including veterinary practice – can learn to coach with empathy, create space for growth, and drive genuine progress without burnout.If you've ever felt stuck in a cycle of constant hustle with little reflection, or if you want to learn how to inspire lasting change in your team, this episode is a must-listen. It was a huge pleasure to bring someone who coaches me into the limelight. I hope this shines some light on a keystone subject for all leaders.Episode Outline:[00:00] – Meet Mike Porteous: Coach & Founder of Zig Zag Alive.[03:15] – From Civil Service to Triathlon.[05:30] – What Is Confidence-Centered Coaching?[08:45] – Coaching vs. Telling (aka consulting).[12:00] – Creating Space for Growth.[15:20] – The Hamster Wheel of Leadership.[19:00] – Coaching in Action.[22:30] – Confidence Through Ownership.[26:45] – Swim Coaching for Children with Disabilities.[29:30] – Beyond Belief: Mike's Book.[33:00] – How Leaders Can Coach.[36:45] – Sustainable Success.[40:30] – Looking Forward.[44:00] – Wrapping Up.Episode Resources:Mike's Book: Beyond Belief: The Art of Confidence-Centered Coaching by Mike PorteousConnect with Mike Porteous on LinkedinZig Zag Alive's WebsiteBrene BrownThe Human Behind the Coach, Claire PatrickFollow Dr. Dave Nicol for More Leadership Insights:Follow Dave: @drdavenicolLearn more about Veterinary Leadership Training: Veterinary Leadership AcademyEnjoyed this episode?Leave a review on iTunes and share it with your veterinary colleagues!Mentioned in this episode:Mentioned in this episode:Is managing conflict and stress within your team becoming a daily struggle? Are strained relationships and unresolved tensions holding your veterinary practice back? For many practice owners, navigating the complexities of team dynamics can be overwhelming. Without the right skills, stress and conflict can quickly escalate,...

 Today, we're talking with Nancy De Losa from AQTO Cycling Tours in Italy. For AQTO, the magic of riding in Italy is all about the challenge and reward. You get testing yourself on Italy's most exhilarating climbs and descents while immersing yourself in authentic Italian hospitality. Facebook   Twitter   Instagram Love the show? Subscribe,  rate, review, and share! Sign up for my Newsletter  HERE I'd love to hear your feedback about the show! You can contact me here:  rick@theoutdoorbizpodcast.com   What Happened: We didn't mean to start a cycling tour business in Italy. No, really. It all started with a blog post. Damien rode a legendary vintage bike ride in Tuscany, blogged about it for his cycling apparel brand, and boom—emails started rolling in: “Do you run tours?” Cue the two of us looking at each other with raised eyebrows and saying, “...Maybe we do?” One spontaneous road trip, a few door knocks, and a hotel booking later—AQTO Cycling Tours was born. Here's the kicker: I'm not a cyclist. Not even close. I married one. I live with one. But cycling? Doesn't sing to my soul. Yoga and red wine, yes. Lycra and bike grease? Not so much. So I created something for the others like me—the non-cycling partners, the half-riders, the aspiring adventurers who want the Italian magic without the saddle sores. From curated cooking classes to 3,000-year-old olive trees, that little side program became a unique (and very loved) part of our brand. Principle: Just because you're not the “typical” expert in the room doesn't mean you don't belong in the business. In fact, your “different lens” might be the very thing that makes the experience more complete, more inclusive, and more memorable for everyone involved. Transition: A lot of us think we need to be “all in” on something to make it work—like being a hardcore cyclist to lead cycling tours. But the truth is, many adventure-based brands get stuck trying to serve only the enthusiasts. And in doing so, they forget about the partners, the dreamers, and the curious souls who crave the journey, just not the climbs. That's why so many businesses feel out of reach for the average person. They're built on the assumption that only experts belong. That's Why: That's why this episode of the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast exists—to show how Nancy and Damien built a boutique Italian adventure company that doesn't just cater to cyclists, but to humans who crave culture, community, and challenge. Whether you ride or not, their approach is a masterclass in designing an inclusive, enriching experience that welcomes everyone at the table (and on the trail). Call to Action: Tired of feeling like adventures are only for “serious” athletes? It's frustrating when travel feels like a test, not a treat. That's why this episode is a must-listen—because there's a different way to explore. One that fits you. [Listen here to episode 506 now] Show Notes What what advice would you give someone who's never done an international cycling tour before but wants to give it a shot? I probably would say stop thinking about it and just do it.- Nancy De Losa Do you have a favorite book? Yes, it's called "Italian Joy" by Carla Olson. Favorite piece of cycling gear Q36.6 windshell Follow up with Nancy: AQTO Cycling  

The 888 COR LORD phone line has lit up the last couple of weeks, and the boys address numerous calls from listeners with questions about backcountry skiing, DOPE or DERPs including wearing full Lycra while mountain biking in the backcountry, riding a splitboard inbounds at a ski resort, blasting music on a Bluetooth speaker while riding and tracking vert skied at a resort and posting to Strava. The boys also talk about the recent closure of all trails in and around Marlette Lake and Spooner Lake State Park for the next two summers and beating the tariff price increases coming with outdoor gear. Trail Whisperer gets chainsaw certified, ASS rants about people saying “could care less” instead of “couldn't care less” and gets his first snowboard lesson from Pow Bot at Donner Ski Ranch. 3:20 – Pow Bot gives Trail Whisperer snowboard lessons at Donner Ski Ranch. 11:30 – You have to ride the chairlift to become a better skier before backcountry skiing. And if you want to be a better mountain biker, don't ride the chairlift.18:20 – Trail Whisperer gets chainsaw certified by the U.S. Forest Service.21:50 – Pow Bot starts riding his mountain bike after spring skiing burnout and Trail Whisperer almost gets attacked by a swarm of bees. 25:50 – Listener feedback and 888 COR LORD call-ins – Fritz from Calpine – Kirkwood closing day, pond skimming. 31:10 – Shred the Gnerd – wants to get into backcountry splitboarding and is seeking advice about what to do in the off-season to prepare. 37:26 – Mystery Non-NARP – DOPE or DERP – Full Lycra kit in the backcountry?46:10 – Gordo – about to hike the entire Pacific Crest Trail over the next 5 months and a bit about the book “Born to Run” and the 5 finger shoes.52:20 – Steve emailed us about the 10 Shredmandments and people doing dumb things.56:30 – Nevada State Parks shuts down all trails around Marlette Lake for two years.1:03:10 – Washoe County Releases Mount Rose recreational trails survey – https://engage.zencity.io/washoe-county-nv/en/engagements/580ebe44-fd70-4b4d-a9e2-bc0c593d55f6?utm_medium=referral1:04:50 – How are you going to beat the increase in outdoor gear costs due to tariffs?1:09:00 – DOPE or DERP – Riding a splitboard at a ski resort.1:12:55 – DOPE or DERP – Tracking vert skied at a resort and posting to Strava.1:16:25 – DOPE or DERP – Bluetooth speakers while riding.1:21:30 – ASS RANT – could care less vs couldn't care less. 1:23:55 – ON A MUSICAL NOTE – Ethiopian Jazz – Mulatu Estatke. Shout out to Myles at Incline Spirits.

Welcome to Hell... Katherine Ryan!Darlings! This week we drag the devil herself into the studio: the queen of sharp tongues and high drama, Katherine Ryan. We chat Lycra lads who think they own the road, and the national crisis that is wet towels. Plus, Katherine shares tales of a cheating husband (not hers), and the aunties weigh in on just how hellish relationships can really get. It's messy, it's righteous, it's everything you'd expect from two bitter gays and a Canadian icon.For more chaotic chats and exclusive behind-the-scenes madness, join the VIP Inner Circle at: patreon.com/thehellpodDon't forget to send us your unfiltered thoughts, memes, and recommendations:@thehellpodProduced by: PodcastHouse.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode Gary Mansfield speaks to Daisy Collingridge (@Daisy_Collingridge) Daisy Collingridge is a artist renowned for her unique and thought-provoking textile sculptures. A graduate of Central Saint Martins with a background in fashion design, her work bridges the gap between fine art, sculpture, and costume.Her creations are imaginative, surreal, and often playful, characterised by their fleshy, anthropomorphic forms made from intricately stitched layers of fabric. These pieces, which she refers to as "Squishies," explore themes of human anatomy, identity, and the boundaries of the body. Daisy uses materials like Lycra, jersey, and wadding to craft tactile, exaggerated forms that are both grotesque and endearing. Her sculptures often evoke visceral responses, challenging perceptions of beauty and bodily norms while maintaining an underlying sense of humour. Collingridge's work has been exhibited in galleries across the UK and internationally, capturing attention for its innovative approach to textile art. Through her practice, she continues to push the boundaries of materiality and storytelling in contemporary sculpture. For more information on the work of Daisy Collingridge go to https:// DaisyCollingridge.com To Support this podcast from as little as £3 per month: www.patreon/ministryofarts For full line up of confirmed artists go to https://www.ministryofarts.co.ukEmail: ministryofartsorg@gmail.comSocial Media: @ministryofartsorg Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Regular listeners would know that we at QF are avid op shoppers. We like nothing more than to rifle through $1 baskets of stale smelling Lycra at our local Noffs in the hope of finding an original Donna Karan bodysuit.But that's because we have the choice. We have the leisure time, the energy and even the funds to cover those pesky op shop inflations..For those one in eight adult Australians who live below the poverty line, and for women in shelters who have escaped domestic violence, choice of any kind is a luxury, and actually so is being gifted the chance of a fresh start with a carefully curated wardrobe of never worn - never sold clothes courtesy of Thread Together.Just a few years ago Burberry was famously caught burning its excess stock for fear it'd end up in the hands of the poor (if you're British you'll know how ironic this is, given the chav check and the old adage that style can't be bought, but that's another story for another episode) ..Impressive, then, that Thread Together has managed to successfully convince 2,000 fashion brands to be less mean (and toxic) about their unsold stock. Overproduction to the tune of 30 per cent is the norm now. According to Thread Together CEO Anthony Chesler, for our planet's eight billion people there are now $100 billion units of clothing being produced annually. No wonder the TT warehouse is so vast.We opened this can of wriggling worms after a tour of the place last year with the man himself…… and while we're none the wiser about overproduction, we wholeheartedly concede that Thread Together is a great service making the best of a bad situation. Find out about teambuilding and volunteer opportunities here.Remember to email any questions or comments and please use the codeword ‘Acorn' in the subject line (we'll explain later lol…)Email: questioningfashionpodcast@slogue.com.auWe'd love a review on Apple PodcastsAnd follow us here..instagram.com/questioningfashionpodcastinstagram.com/jogambaleinstagram.com/alidibleytiktok.com/@bellstreet This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit questioningfashion.substack.com

Servicing Clients.Based on a post by Ostrich Mack. Listen to the ► Podcast at Steamy Stories.Hotel Guest, Lydia.Lydia Carlson was a businesswoman and operated at senior level for the travel agency which bore the family name. The firm had been founded by her grandfather 50 years earlier and had grown to be one of the most prestigious in Europe.Lydia didn't get to her position because of her family ties, as there was a serious work ethic in the family. If you wanted success, you had to earn it. Lydia had studied at university and had worked in other travel agencies to gain experience before moving back to the family nest. Now she was head of procurement, traveling throughout Europe to contract hotels for her company.Lydia was stunningly beautiful. An only child, with as her name would suggest, a Danish background, she had grown up in England. Despite her Scandinavian background, Lydia was not a typical tall, blond haired, blue eyed beauty, but rather a brunette with deep brown eyes. At 36 years old, she was about 5'9" with a slim athletic figure. Her tits and ass were in perfect proportion to her height and weight. Her skin positively glowed and she was always impeccably dressed.Lydia was always guarded when she made new acquaintances, preferring to listen, and assess who it was exactly she was talking to. To some, that came across as aloof.Knowing this, Peter wondered why she had chosen to reserve in his hotel for a midweek stay.Peter's Hotel was a comfortable family run place with good rooms, and a good restaurant. A quiet place to relax and enjoy the garden and the local countryside, and of course the local delicacies. It was certainly not the high-end luxury resorts that Peter assumed Lydia would be used to.To that end Peter was curious. He had googled Lydia and read extensively about her career. There was very little to glean about her private life as Lydia didn't "do" social media.On the evening of her arrival at the hotel, Lydia decided to dine in their restaurant. Peter was delighted to be able to introduce himself to her. At 6'1" and very athletic, Peter cut an impressive figure. He was a presence wherever he went.Lydia was seated in the restaurant. She was as usual impeccably dressed in a bias cut skirt, which reached to just below her knees, showing off her shapely calves. She wore medium heeled sandals which displayed her perfectly manicured toes. Her blouse was a silk round neck with short sleeves. Her wavy hair tumbled down to just below her shoulder. Around her neck she wore a colorful silk scarf.Lydia smiled at Peter as he approached. Her smile lit up the room."Good evening, Mrs. Carlson." He said."It's Miss Carlson." She replied, "And please, call me Lydia."Peter blushed a little. "My apologies, Lydia." He said awkwardly. "My name is Peter Talbot. I am the owner of the hotel, and I am delighted you have chosen to stay with us. If we can do anything to make your stay more comfortable, please let me know."Lydia raised an eyebrow and laughed gently. "Hmm, anything?" she asked with a grin."Of course." Peter said. "We're at your service. It's lovely to meet you. I'm sure we will see each other during your stay.""Well, I certainly hope so." Replied Lydia, smiling."Great." Said Peter. "Enjoy your meal, I will see you at breakfast tomorrow.""Thank you so much Peter." Lydia replied. "May I call you Peter.""Of course, Lydia," Peter replied. He was a little flustered. Was she flirting or was she just simply an incredibly charming woman.The next day.Peter was, as always, up at dawn to prepare breakfast for the hotel guests. This was his favorite part of the working day. An hour and a half undisturbed work, preparing an extensive breakfast buffet for his guests enjoyment.Breakfast started at 7.30am, but at 7.15 Peter heard someone enter the restaurant. Luckily everything was ready, so he just switched on the lights and the background music.As usual he entered the restaurant, to greet his guests. To his surprise, it was Lydia. Dressed in a simple sweatshirt and shorts, she was as beautiful as the evening before. Her hair was wrestled into a ponytail, which accentuated her pretty face. Her high cheekbones and dimpled cheeks made her even more beautiful than Peter had observed."So, the early bird." Peter joked."Gets the first worm." Lydia replied."Are you calling me a worm?" Peter asked, feigning shock.They both laughed. Peter explained everything on the buffet, and Lydia listened patiently, despite having stayed in hundreds of hotels for her work. She thought it sweet that Peter took the time to show her how everything worked.Peter was excited. He couldn't explain what this beautiful, charming woman did to him, but he felt like a teenager with a crush, in her presence."So, Peter," Lydia said. "I was thinking of going for a hike through the hills today. Can you recommend a route?""How far would you like to walk?" Peter asked."Well, I like to keep in shape, so at least 10k." Lydia replied."No problem." Peter replied. "But you should be aware that the routes are not really well marked. You need to be able to read a topographical map for most routes.""Hmm. That is one thing I am not great at." Lydia replied. "Maybe you could recommend a guide?""Ah," said Peter. "At such short notice, a guide will be difficult. But if you would like me to guide you, I am free at 11.""That sounds lovely. Will you order a packed lunch for us to take away?" Lydia asked."Leave it to me." Peter replied. He was secretly thrilled to be able to accompany Lydia for the afternoon.The walk.At 11 sharp, Peter stood in the lounge, ready with a rucksack containing a lunch he had prepared himself. A bottle of champagne, Pâté de Fois gras, Local cheeses and meat cuts and of course, fresh bread and a basket of strawberries. Peter was laying it on for this walk.Lydia appeared from the lift, a vision to his eyes. She had her hiking shoes on, and long socks. Her shorts were loose around her ass and a sort of combat style. Above her shorts she had a tight Lycra shirt which accentuated her tits. She was clearly not wearing a bra. A silk scarf tied like a bandana covered her head with her hair in a ponytail out the back, and a pair of designer sunglasses completed the look.She looked like a model from a camping catalogue."Peter!" she cried. "How nice of you to go to all this effort for me.""It is my pleasure." Peter replied. "Shall we?"They left the hotel. Peter had chosen a route up into the hills via a number of steep climbs to a perfect picnic spot. At first the going was easy, and they chatted amicably about the local countryside and history.Later as the climbs became steeper, there was little time for conversation as they needed to save their breath. Peter helped Lydia up the steeper paths by leading and offered her a hand when the incline was very steep. Lydia was not inclined to let Peter see that she couldn't keep up, but he was a very experienced rambler.Most of the time, Peter walked behind Lydia furtively admiring her perfect ass.Finally, after about 6k, they reached the picnic spot that Peter had planned. It was a huge rock which balanced on the edge of the highest hill. The view over the countryside was amazing.Lydia, sat down on the rock and stared in amazement at the view. She smiled serenely.Peter made himself busy unpacking the lunch. He laid out a picnic blanket on the rock. When everything was ready, he said in a soft voice."Madam, Lunch is served."Lydia laughed. "I'll bet you think that's how I was raised."Peter replied. "No not at all. I just thought it was funny.""It is funny." Lydia answered. "But let me tell you a little about me."Peter perked up, keen to know more about this beautiful enigmatic woman.Lydia began. "I am an only child. I grew up in a wealthy family and had a wonderful childhood. We had lots of friends where we lived and there were always fun things going on in our house and the neighbors houses.My parents worked very hard to make their business successful, and I learned from an early age that if you want success, you have to work for it.I never really had boyfriends, except for one who broke my heart. I was determined never to feel the pain of giving my heart and soul to someone, only to have them stamp on it. As an only child, I learned to amuse myself, and if I am honest, I like my own company.I have had many casual relationships. Mostly to satisfy my sexual needs. But I don't commit to relationships. That is why I never married. I just like to be alone at the end of the day."Peter blushed. "Wow that is very open and honest. How do you do that? The casual relationship thing?" he asked."Well, I got you to come with me today." Lydia replied, smiling at him. She winked at him.Peter blushed even more."Oh, come on." Lydia said. "You don't think I didn't notice you admiring my ass? Did you think I put on this outfit because it was practical?""I guess not." Peter replied sheepishly. "But you are stunning. Why would you be interested in me?""Peter." Lydia replied. "You are handsome, and very charming. Most of the guys I meet are so full of themselves, and generally looking for some arm candy. That's not me. You seem honest and candid. And you listen without interrupting which tells me you are genuinely interested in what I have to say. That is not only refreshing, but a welcome change."Peter smiled. He poured two glasses of champagne and laid toast with foie gras on a plate and joined Lydia on the rock. They sat there on the blanket enjoying the view, the food and champagne.Peter jumped up. "And now the strawberries."He grabbed the basket and took a strawberry between his fingers. Lydia laid herself out on the blanket.Peter leaned over her and fed her the strawberry. As she opened her mouth, he poured a sip of champagne into her mouth and then a strawberry.Lydia closed her lips around the strawberry and sucked on it suggestively before taking it completely in her mouth.She had Peter's full attention and there was a stirring in his trousers.Lydia looked carefully around, and seeing no one else, she pulled her Lycra shirt up above her head exposing her tits. Peter took a deep breath, she looked amazing.Peter took another strawberry and traced it over her tits, circling her nipples only to finally bring it to her lips.Lydia took a small bite.Peter repeated the action, coating Lydia's exposed tits with strawberry juice and returning to her lips.He bent over Lydia and began to lick the juice from her, concentrating on her tits. Lydia gasped as Peter licked around her nipples, causing them to rise to attention.Lydia groaned in anticipation of the next round."Oh, do go on kind sir," she giggled.Peter moved downward on her body. He planted kisses on her nipples, her ribs, down to her navel. He poured a little champagne in her navel and licked it out with his tongue.He fumbled with her shorts until Lydia helped him by opening the button and pulling down the zipper. Peter pulled on the sides of her shorts. They slid easily down her thighs and to Peter's delight she was not wearing underwear. Her cunt was trimmed short but not completely bare. There was a small triangle of hair just above her mound.Peter slid Lydia's shorts down to her ankles and over her hiking shoes. Now he understood why she had chosen loose shorts.Lydia was lying in her almost naked magnificence on the rock. The hiking shoes and long socks looked almost comical. Peter couldn't believe his luck having this goddess before him.Peter moved further down Lydia's body until he reached her pubic mound.He gently licked the outer lips of her cunt, slowly moving along her weeping slit. As he moved upwards Peter inserted a finger between Lydia's folds. She gasped in anticipation and pulled her gently.Lydia cried out. "Oh! That is so good!"Peter went to work with two fingers in Lydia's sopping cunt. He curled his forefinger upwards to massage her g-spot.Lydia began to buck with her hips. She was getting close to her point of no return.Peter stopped. He knew she was close.Lydia whimpered. "Ah! don't stop."Peter waited. He waited until Lydia's breathing slowed. Then he attacked her cunt again. His mouth on her clit, his fingers moving in and out.

Radio TRO is brought to you in part by:Twisted Road - Motorcycle Rental in the USAVisit Twisted.TRO.bike to get a FREE riding day!Robin and Brian swap stories about the latest in bike modifications and the quirks that come with mixing gear from different brands. Robin wrestles with transforming his GSX-8R (https://www.google.com/search?q=gsx-8r&tbm=isch) into a sport-touring machine due to compatibility issues between luggage systems. Brian's escape to Cycle Gear's first bike night of the year offers a taste of two-wheeled community.Our first segment welcomes college swimmer Joe Wilson to discuss seasonal workout prep for avid riders. Look to walking, yoga and paint buckets as weightlifting equipment. His analogies balance cardiovascular stamina alongside strength training.Joanne enters by expounding the base layer theory that is Lycra-y silkiness. Jordan's exploration of George Wyman's 1905 coast to coast journey is in full motion, arriving at snow sheds, trestle bridges and the need for a complete engine overhaul. They just don't make riders the way they used to ... or do they?Episode Page: https://tro.bike/podcast/2025e07/Music by Rabid Neon and Otis McDonald

Zwiftcast co-hosts Rebecca Charlton and Dave Towle are back together to bring you the latest fortnightly episode with news and updates galore, including the much anticipated TrainerRoad integration, news of Sir Chris Hoy's launch of Tour de 4 and the eagerly anticipated return of Zwift Academy! Director of Product Management at Zwift, Nick Kalkounis, chats to Rebecca and Dave about that TrainerRoad news, and Nathan, Shane and Eric join the crew to discuss all things topical on Zwift, including the Peak Zwift result. Dave also meets community inspirer Elaine Montoya to learn about the OWLs, the Older Women in Lycra, and chats to Eric Schlange about the Zwift Insider women's portal.  

The Smart 7 is an award winning daily podcast that gives you everything you need to know in 7 minutes, at 7am, 7 days a week…With over 17 million downloads and consistently charting, including as No. 1 News Podcast on Spotify, we're a trusted source for people every day and we've won Gold at the Signal International Podcast awardsIf you're enjoying it, please follow, share, or even post a review, it all helps... Today's episode includes the following:https://x.com/i/status/1891569342975709266 https://x.com/i/status/1891539906708529202 https://x.com/i/status/1891463283091103819https://x.com/i/status/1891394537475481869 https://x.com/i/status/1891443910347460677 https://x.com/i/status/1891446511554195673 https://x.com/i/status/1891521580255092953 https://x.com/i/status/1891409331179975050 https://x.com/i/status/1891503526167052460 Contact us over @TheSmart7pod or visit www.thesmart7.comVoiced by Jamie East, using AI, written by Liam Thompson, researched by Lucie Lewis and produced by Daft Doris. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, with Gavin away guiding in Japan, we've got Barry Wicks as our host. Wicks is a die-hard ski tourer who brings supremely positive energy into the hills. He's also a recovering bike racer who claims he's sworn off Lycra. Despite his baggy clothes, he's still fast. And he still knows gear. Anyhow, Wicks has a playful nature on skis. And we've been bantering back and forth for a few months about adopting progressive ski designs for those who uphill at resorts. It sort of makes sense—when there is an uphill, hopefully, there is a downhill. And why not try to make the downhill as enjoyable as possible?Wicks' quest to find a rockered twin-tipped ski that is light…isn't exactly easy. On his journey, Wicks speaks with Max Smith, VP of Reno, Nevada's Moment Skis. Who knows, maybe a mythical and lightweight 85-underfoot Wildcat Tour is in our future. If you have specific questions regarding the information (and opinions) presented in the podcast, you can comment on the website or email us on The High Route's contact page (editor@the-high-route.com). The High Route is a reader and listener-supported project, and we'll be releasing our first print edition of The High Route later this winter. You can learn how to support us here.  You can find us at the-high-route.com: Yeah, there are two hyphens for redundancy, which is a good policy in the mountains. And according to Barry Wicks, don't-fear-the-hyphens®.The theme music for The High Route Podcast comes from Storms in the Hill Country and the album The Self Transforming (Thank you, Jens Langsjoen). You can find a link to the album here—there are so many good songs on this album. And if you think you've spotted a UFO in the past or visited the 7th dimension, "Beautiful Alien" is a good tune to begin with.

This Friyaayy we're super stoked to discuss the best and worst dressed on the red carpet from the 2025 Grammy Awards, sharing Holly's favorite fashion moments and standout artists. Plus, we dive into a listener's burning question about shapewear — what's the best way to find shapewear that fits comfortably and enhances your look? Tune in for expert advice on how to shop for shapewear without the struggles.

In today's FittBite, we explain how Liquid Lycra is revolutionizing compression garments.  Learn how this innovation eliminates the need for bulky seams and panels, while offering precise support exactly where it's needed, making sportswear lighter, more breathable, and more functional, ultimately allowing for better performance without compromising on comfort.Tune in to understand how this breakthrough is changing the activewear industry.Book a 1 on 1 with our host, Shadi for personalized advice on how to create and grow your fashion business: https://www.fittdesign.com/services/consultation Design your own collection with our instantly downloadable factory ready tech pack templates: FittDesign Tech Pack Templates Follow our host on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shadiadada/ https://www.instagram.com/fittdesign/ Got any other questions, email us for an instant response at: studio@fittdesign.com Subscribe to our weekly fashion design podcast (New episodes every Thursday at 4pm CST): https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-fittdesign-podcast/id1454410683 Visit our website:https://www.fittdesign.com/ Follow us on:https://www.linkedin.com/company/fittdesign/ https://www.facebook.com/fittdesign https://www.pinterest.com/fittdesign/ https://www.behance....

Most Kiwis will know the name Mark Hadlow. The NZ Order of Merit recipient is best known internationally for his roles in King Kong and the Hobbit, but he has his fingers in many pies. In 2017, Hadlow had a one man show called MAMIL (Middle Aged Man in Lycra), exploring the male midlife crisis and the way many of them turn to road cycling. The show received rave reviews, touring the country for eight years. Seven years on, Hadlow has created a sequel – GOMIL, standing for Grumpy Old Man in Lycra, premiering in Christchurch in early 2025. He told Heather du Plessis-Allan that it was great being back in the saddle – literally. “The show opens with a big sequence, so it's really interesting getting back on the Pinarello again,” he said. “Oh goodness me, that was fun.” LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the Mike Hosking Breakfast Full Show Podcast for Thursday 19th of December, Heather du Plessis-Allan asks just how bad is our Q3 GDP will be, and whether we'll slip back into a technical recession? High Performance Sport NZ has decided who they're dishing out the funding to – so who are the winners and losers? Kiwi actor and NZ Order of Merit recipient Mark Hadlow is bringing back his stage show 'Middle Aged Man in Lycra', by doing a sequel - ‘Grumpy Old Man in Lycra'. Get the Mike Hosking Breakfast Full Show Podcast every weekday morning on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark Hadlow is a legend of New Zealand stage and screen, appearing in blockbusters like King Kong and The Hobbit, and no stranger to Shakespeare. 

More and more, the lines are blurring between our private credit and distressed coverage.In this episode of Cloud 9fin, private credit editor David Brooke mines the reportage of Bianca Boorer, senior distressed debt reporter, and Shubham Saharan, senior private credit reporter. They talk about the challenge Lycra's stakeholders face in navigating the company's balance sheet, and why the company is considering a private credit option, even if it wouldn't provide it with all the liquidity — or should we say elasticity — it needs to tackle its entire capital stack. Do listen in to find out why private credit has the leg(ging) up on the competition!Follow all of 9fin's coverage of the Lycra situation here. If you have any feedback for us, send us a note at podcast@9fin.com. Thanks for listening.

Is traditional joinery antiquated, a safe glue for food items, starter tools for odd jobs, why so much 4/4 lumber in Illinois, and ideas for a special picture frame.

Is traditional joinery antiquated, a safe glue for food items, starter tools for odd jobs, why so much 4/4 lumber in Illinois, and ideas for a special picture frame. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As an extra from our Cycling Central podcast, Christophe Mallet met Nickolas Bird, for his film: "MAMIL: Middle Aged Men in Lycra "

Rebecca and Tori chat about Band Candy. In short, we have a lot of fun with this episode. We discuss Billy Joel, Lycra pants, and the plethora of quotable lines. We debate who is a better choice, Burt Reynolds vs. Tom Selleck? ResourcesTicking clock and cell phone message sound effects from PixabayRolling Stone Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes ratingsJuice Newton - WikipediaWilly Loman - WikipediaAV Club | Beauty & the Beasts, Homecoming, Band CandyGeekDad | Buffy's LegacyShangel's Reviews: Buffy The Vampire Slayer, "Band Candy" Review (3x06)

... But he's in a coma. So the town bands together to save Harold's Cafe! Yes, all the people who have jobs. Plus JJ pays a visit to the clink; Terage continues to be a terrible boss to Susan; Krista's drug dealer keeps hassling her number one patron; and Az and Dr Pooper meet the YAHMILS - the Young and Hot Men in Lycra! CJ, Kate and Vaya recap Neighbours Episodes 9040 to 9043 in the PirateNet Studios.Head over to [https://www.patreon.com/neighbuzzpod](https://www.patreon.com/neighbuzzpod) to help us buy the good iced coffee from Anson's Corner.And drop us a line there to ask a question for our new mini pod: Pod Squad Group Chat!Check out @Neighbuzzpod on [TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@neighbuzzpod?)!Join the Neighbuzz Council for Neighbours chats on Facebook  Follow NeighbuzzPod on InstagramTweet Kate, Instagram CJ or Vaya New artwork by Elyce Phillips!Brett's Bitts courtesy of Brett Bowman.To support the PirateNet Studios and unlock bonus content, become one of our beloved Patrons at patreon.com/neighbuzzpod Thanks for listening - please tell other spiggin' hufters to listen too!

Send us a Text Message.The NoJetStress Podcast is a traveler wellbeing podcast for frequent business travelers covering health and peak performance on the road as well as to help business travelers maintain optimal health and avoid burnout no matter how much they travel.   Christopher Babayode, a Corporate Travel Wellness Expert shares his insights on Traveler Wellness.This is episode,  Christopher discusses - Go Running Tours a nice to have or business traveller essential?Why the world should be your treadmillWhat LinkedIn in Lycra can do for you!A walk through of the Go Running Tours offeringNew city launches of Go Running Tours and the futureLena's travel routine on the roadYou can subscribe to this podcast by searching 'BusinessTravel360' on Google Podcast, Apple Podcast, iHeart, Pandora, Spotify, Alexa or your favorite podcast player.This podcast was created by Christopher Babayode and distributed by BusinessTravel360.  For more information about NoJetStress, visit us at NoJetStress.comSupport the Show.

Ecoutez Le 2ème œil de Philippe Caverivière avec Philippe Caverivière du 03 mai 2024

Here are a few notes to get this podcast rolling. We hope you are reading this. 1) There is some foul language in this podcast. F-bombs abound, in particular, after ~the 45:00 minute mark. 2) The episode is broken into two parts: set 1 and set 2. The first "set" was recorded in late March after a fine day of Sunday skiing in the Wasatch. We recorded the second "set" roughly a month later. The main reason for "set" 2 is to discuss our interaction with another group the following Monday. We set the scene in the pod, but here is the gist: a low-traffic day in a zone with plenty of fresh snow and low-hazard terrain. The one party we encountered up high was less than excited to see us. Pete Vordenberg and I break down the brief interaction.3) Trigger warning: We discuss the merits of some roadkill burritos. 4) Pete Vordenberg is the guest. Pete, or Peter, is a frequent contributor to The High Route. We love having him on board. Our most widely read piece on the site is a story he penned titled "Skiing: A Review." If you haven't read it, please read it. It's a highlight.Vordenberg has a unique perspective on the backcountry scene. For years, he chased the Olympic dream with what we consider success. He made the Olympics as a cross-country skier. He became the head coach of the U.S. Cross Country Ski Team. Yet, for those who know him, Vordenberg seems most at home and peace, far away from the Lycra, deep in the Wasatch, seeking fine turns—which he has been doing for many decades. Thanks for reading and listening. And again, the F-bombs spill forth in the later part of the episode. We'll work on cleaning up the potty language next season. ***Find us at the-high-route.com. Yeah, there are two hyphens for redundancy, which is a good policy in the mountains. For weight weenies, hyphens weigh next to nothing. We are a reader supported website with free podcasts. Our podcasts are not free to produce or store on a server. If you are enjoying the podcasts, please consider supporting The High Route, you can find subscription information here. The theme music for The High Route Podcast comes from Storms in the Hill Country and the album The Self Transforming (Thank you, Jens Langsjoen). You can find a link to the album here—there are so many good songs on this album. And if you think you've spotted a UFO in the past or visited the 7th dimension, "Beautiful Alien" is a good tune to start with.

Welcome to another episode of The Gravel Ride Podcast

This week we dive into the world of titanium frame building with Brad Bingham. Based in the Steamboat Springs, Colorado, Brad has been crafting custom frames for an impressive 27 years. Starting his journey as a welding enthusiast in high school, Brad's passion for making things led him to the art of bike building. But his skills go beyond frames – he even built his own home with the help of his retired custom home builder father. In this episode, Brad reveals the importance of learning how to do things for oneself and consulting experts. He shares his experience working for a dental equipment manufacturer before diving headfirst into the world of bikes. From working at renowned bike manufacturer Moots to eventually taking over Kent Erickson Cycles, Brad's journey is a testament to his dedication and expertise. Brad and our host, Randall Jacobs, delve into the nitty-gritty details of bike design. They discuss everything from tube selection and mitering to the impact of weight bias and alignment. Brad's deep knowledge of geometry, materials, and manufacturing processes makes this episode a must-listen for any bike enthusiast or aspiring frame builder. But what sets Brad apart from the rest? Well, his attention to detail and commitment to customer satisfaction are second to none. As the owner of Bingham Built Bikes, he prioritizes open communication and mutual respect. With his wife, Hannah, by his side, they handle everything from bike design and production to backend operations. Their tiny operation may be limited in size, but it's big on passion and craftsmanship. Binghm Built Bicycles Website Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I'm, I'm Brad Bingham. I'm, uh, based out of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, and I'm a custom titanium frame builder. Uh, been doing that here in Colorado for, gosh, going on what, 27 years? [00:00:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Wow. 20, 27 years, [00:00:20]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yep. [00:00:21]Randall Jacobs (host): you don't look, you started welding when you were like eight. [00:00:27]Brad Bingham: Uh, no. I, I really started welding in earnest, um, senior in high school. I. [00:00:35]Randall Jacobs (host): No kidding. [00:00:36]Brad Bingham: And then, yeah, I moved here to, to Steamboat right after I turned 20. And [00:00:41]Randall Jacobs (host): so me about those first welding experiences. How'd you get into it? Was it starting with bikes or was it, uh, a general, was it a vocational program? What was the nature of [00:00:51]Brad Bingham: it, it was very bike centric, so I, I knew that I wanted to construct bike frames, uh, mountain bikes specifically. And to do that, I needed to know how to, you know, join two tubes together. And at the time, I mean, I was 18 years old and didn't have any welding experience whatsoever. So I went and took a, uh, evening like, uh, community college TIG welding course. It was like a 75 hour course and took that in the, in the evenings after work. Um, And I walked in there with a couple of parted off pieces of Reynolds bike tubing and I said, I just need to know how to put these two things together. [00:01:40]Randall Jacobs (host): And so this is really, I mean, this has been your path in life since [00:01:45]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:45]Randall Jacobs (host): beginning. [00:01:46]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, that's, uh, it seems like an increasingly rare phenomenon to have such clarity at a young age at what you wanna do and then to go out and do it. So, uh, good on you. Some of us, some of us, it takes a lot longer. [00:01:58]Brad Bingham: Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was always really passionate about making things. I, I just always needed to be making something or working on something. And luckily the bikes found me, you know, 'cause I was a rider and, um, the idea of building bikes was, you know, not, not anything that crossed my mind until a good friend of mine said, well, why don't you just build your own. And that was, that was the genesis. [00:02:31]Randall Jacobs (host): So, and we were just talking a moment ago, I, I, I was apologizing for the, the state of affairs in my house. 'cause I'm in the process of building a new house around the husk of a, of a old derelict, but, but lovely, uh, home that I just purchased. And you mentioned you built your home as well. So tell me a little bit about that. I'm kind of curious about this builder mentality, [00:02:53]Brad Bingham: yeah. So yeah, I did not, you know, obviously I did not build the entire home myself. Um, my dad was a, um, was a custom home builder for 25 years, and so he was retired at the time, and this was 2000, like 2002 to 2004. Um, he had just recently finished a home helping out my sister build, build a home in Bend, Oregon. And so about a, uh, about a year, year and a half after that, Um, I talked him into coming out here and, and helping me build a home. So it was a big, big project, but really, he, I have to say he did at least 80, 85% of the heavy lifting. Like, yeah, I mean, he was, he was amazing. He's, he passed away in 2008. Um, but he was just a super smart guy and really good at building homes and being efficient, not wasting materials. Um, you know, I was a, I was working for Moots at the time. Didn't have a huge salary or anything. It's not like I was a rich guy. We were really trying to build it as inexpensively as possible. [00:04:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, um, granted, sounds like your father was far more expert than mine, but we share that. Um, my, my father passed in oh seven and I didn't get to build a home with him, but I did get to work on, um, a couple of properties that, um, uh, he had, uh, my parents had purchased with, um, a aunt and uncle. And these properties were always underwater and always, you know, falling apart. And they'd never had the budget to do, you know, to hire out. And so it's just like, all right, we need to figure this out. And that's how I learned. You know, one of the key ways that I learned how to use tools, how to do things for myself, and there's a certain, um, there's a certain sense of, um, one personal responsibility and also with that personal, um, uh, competence and confidence that goes with learning from a young age to do things like, you don't need to hire an expert. You can consult experts. Maybe sometimes you do, but you can learn this. So that's, uh, that would seem to have carried into, uh, a lot of things in, in, uh, in what you've done starting at age 20 welding frames [00:05:21]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And prior to that I was, you know, I was always on my dad's job sites, um, mostly cleaning up, you know? Um, [00:05:31]Randall Jacobs (host): as, as one does, and at when you're a grunt. [00:05:34]Brad Bingham: yep, yep. But, but yeah, you do learn a lot and yeah. Good stuff. Mm-hmm. [00:05:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, so tell me, so you mentioned you, you take this course, right? You're, you're in high school or just outta high school, and you go to work for Moots right after. How'd that come about? [00:05:51]Brad Bingham: No, I was, uh, I had the opportunity in high school to be part of a cooperative work experience, uh, with the world's largest dental equipment manufacturer. So I worked, I worked in their engineering department, um, really as a drafts person, uh, um, junior, senior year in high school. And then that carried over into, after high school. Um, I was not a, you know, there was a lot of, a lot of life things that, that kind of slowed me down from going to college. Um, my mom was recovering from some pretty harsh cancer and I wasn't really excited to, to leave her. My parents were recently divorced, like, you know, all these things kind of piled up to me staying, staying in my hometown for a year after high school. And I continued to work, uh, in that engineering department. Kind of the, the, uh, path would've been to go into mechanical engineering from there. But I, I kind of looked around and I was like, I don't think this is, for me, I just, you know, I don't wanna just be kind of a cog and cog in the wheel, you know, cog in the machine. Um, I wanted to have a, you know, more greater grasp, more of the whole scope of projects. Um, and that's, you know, bike, bike building allows you to do that. [00:07:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, for, for better or for worse, in a lot of regards, especially in the beginning when you're trying to get off the ground, [00:07:24]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:07:25]Randall Jacobs (host): it's the product, it's the business, it's the marketing. And which is really just another way of saying how do you communicate, how do you build awareness? How do you connect with people? Um, So, so then, you know, walk us through kind of what, what that journey looks like. [00:07:40]Brad Bingham: So, you know, it's, it's funny, I, uh, I, like I said, you know, A gentleman that I worked with, uh, who was a really good friend, uh, at the dental, Manu dental equipment manufacturer. Um, he ended up becoming, you know, years later he was director of engineering. Uh, this is a big major company, like 1200 employees on site, um, major manufacturing capabilities right there in my hometown, which is just outside of Portland, Oregon. [00:08:12]Randall Jacobs (host): and what, um, what types of products [00:08:15]Brad Bingham: oh, uh, [00:08:16]Randall Jacobs (host): ha have I had your products in my mouth at some point? [00:08:19]Brad Bingham: uh, maybe not in your, maybe not literally in your mouth, but, but potentially actually, yeah, you probably have like the, uh, you know, the little suction wand that, uh, goes in your mouth while you're at the dentist. Yeah. I mean, they [00:08:32]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:08:33]Brad Bingham: they even produced that. So the company was a. [00:08:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:08:37]Brad Bingham: You walk into, you walk, walk into certain dental offices, and you'll see that every single piece in that office, it's me, sorry, is uh, every single piece has adec on it. Literally from the chair that you're sitting on to the cabinets, literally everything. [00:09:00]Randall Jacobs (host): So what I'm hearing is here you are, this, this young kid in, in, in high school, just outta high school. You get this, this opportunity to work in a very large, uh, organization in with, you know, seasoned professionals doing, you know, medical products at a whole nother layer, um, of complexity in terms of design and development and supply chain and things like that. And so you're dealing with that sort of thing. Um, and that was kind of your jumping off point. [00:09:30]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And I, um, I got into the bike building thing because my buddy that I, I rode with, I broke a couple of cannondale and he said, why don't you just make, why don't you just make your own? [00:09:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:09:44]Brad Bingham: so of course I did. And it kind of spiraled, you know, I was in his garage late every single night machining something. And, uh, you know, kind of once I built that first bike, it was a really great experience, but I was kind of like, well, what's, what's next in this? And then he said, why don't make one outta titanium? And, uh, so I went and took the United Bicycle Institute Titanium Frame Building course in 1996. Um, and it was taught by Gary Helfrich, uh, who is one of the, one of the founders of Merlin. [00:10:21]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:22]Brad Bingham: So, uh, yeah, through that process, moots got ahold of my name and. I got asked to come out to Colorado to interview for a welding position, and you know, as soon as they offered it to me, I took it. And kind of the, you know, the rest is, is history. And, you know, I did feel like that was a wonderful opportunity I got out here and I kind of initially thought to myself like, okay, I'll, I'll do a year out here, figure it out, and then I'll get back to Oregon and I'll start my own brand. [00:10:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:59]Brad Bingham: But I got out to Colorado and it's like, wow, I'm, I'm not gonna go home and build better bikes than this. And, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna go step, step away and just immediately be building better bikes. That's not gonna happen. Um, and I fell in love with, with Colorado and the, the stoke that people have here. [00:11:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:11:24]Brad Bingham: So, [00:11:25]Randall Jacobs (host): And what, what is it about, you know, what was it about working at Moots that was particularly special for you, and like, who were some of your mentors? You know, what, what'd you learn there? [00:11:35]Brad Bingham: Well, it, it was a opportunity to work from the, the very bottom, you know, the very bottom to the very top kind of. And so I was able to experience, you know, every, every part of manufacturing while I was there, every, every part of manufacturing, a bicycle frame from titanium. Uh, so I started out welding, but pretty, I did that pretty solid for, uh, five years, five, six years, you know, tons and tons of welding. But while at that time, Kent Erickson was still, um, employed by Moots, and so even in those first few years I was helping, you know, Kent never used a computer. I brought some CAD skills with me, and so pretty quickly I was involved in design work and any little part he wanted to get machined, you know, we needed to do a drawing and I was a drafts person so I could create an engineering, you know, a print, uh, that somebody could read and manufacture it really easily. So, um, with a, with a lot of those skills that I brought, I was able to evolve at moots. You know, I, I look back on it and I think, oh, it, you know, happened pretty quick, but, but really it took a, took a number of years and by 2004, um, I was the production manager at Moots and managing, you know, the flow of the flow of products through the, through the factory. And, um, at the time it was about, I think it was about 14 or 16 guys and gals that were making the bikes. So, um, You know, and then designing all the bikes after Kent left. Um, and I was, uh, designing tooling and, you know, as new specifications came out, we would incorporate those into the bikes and yeah, just making it all happen. And then, uh, yeah, I finally, finally got tired of the, the high volume, you know, it just got, it got really, really big and I was, no, I was then just, like I said, kind of a cog in the machine. And, um, and then not long after my dad passed away, I kind of felt like it was time to make a change. [00:14:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, that'll, that'll definitely catalyze some, some serious self-reflection for sure. Um, uh, I think in my case as well, when my, when my dad got sick, um, you know, he, he had a, in my dad's case, it was a, a brain tumor. So as a type that you usually don't, uh, get more than like 6, 8, 10 months from, um, and from then it was like, okay, I moved back, moved back home, um, and resolve like, okay, what are the things that I would like to have done if I were on my deathbed and that I would like to do and share with my father while he's still around and like, you know, shifted my whole life trajectory. [00:14:51]Brad Bingham: Sure. [00:14:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:14:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:14:53]Randall Jacobs (host): So, [00:14:54]Brad Bingham: I, yeah, I hope, did you get the, did you get the six or eight, 10 months with 'em? [00:14:59]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, yeah, he, he lasted about eight months or so. He passed, uh, about 10, 10 days before his 50th and my 25th birthdays. We shared the same birthday. And, um, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to land a big account in the company I was working with. I wanted to, um, get into a good grad school, and I wanted to get my pro upgrade as a racer. And I got two, two of the three before he passed. And then, uh, I had a, a good season, uh, later on, uh, the, the, the following year and, uh, was a, a Pac fodder pro for a hot minute. [00:15:39]Brad Bingham: Gotcha. [00:15:40]Randall Jacobs (host): again, like that, that reckoning of seeing, seeing a, you know, a parental figure and someone that I admired and learned a lot from, you know, I. Towards the end of life, it maybe reflect a lot on, on what I wanna do with my own. [00:15:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:15:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:15:54]Brad Bingham: Yeah. 50 is, 50 is way too young. [00:15:58]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:15:59]Brad Bingham: Way too young. I, my dad was 63 when he passed away, [00:16:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:16:03]Brad Bingham: felt way too young. [00:16:06]Randall Jacobs (host): I think it is never a good age to lose a parent. Like it, it just brings with it different challenges. Like when, when you're a child, it, it's like you, you need that parental figure to help guide you through life when you're going through your, your twenties or so, you try to discover yourself and that guidance can be helpful if you're in your forties or fifties. I haven't had that experience though. I will. Uh, my mother's still around and still healthy, but, you know, then it's like you're confronting your own mortality. Uh, so part, part of the cycle of life. [00:16:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. [00:16:40]Randall Jacobs (host): So, so your dad, your dad passes, you decide it's time. So what'd that process look like? [00:16:48]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So, um, I chose to, yeah, I chose to leave the job I'd been in for 15 years and, um, you know, they were, moots was a, they were a little surprised by it because I had been there for so long and, um, you know, at the time I was, I was playing a pretty integral. Um, so I, I went to part-time for, you know, I gave them a healthy notice and went to part-time and then, you know, finally trailed off. Um, and that was spring-ish of 2012, and I had no, I had no plans. I had bought a airstream, uh, to renovate, so I did a, like a shell off restoration on a 1973 Airstream and, [00:17:44]Randall Jacobs (host): off renovation. So like you pulled the shell off the chassis. Sandblasted the chassis. [00:17:51]Brad Bingham: exactly. [00:17:52]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. This, this, we need, we need to do a tangent on this 'cause I, I also did a, um, uh, a camper build at one point. So tell me about this Airstream. I'm super curious. [00:18:00]Brad Bingham: what, what was the camper you did? [00:18:03]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, mine, mine, I built out of a 15 foot vno motorcycle trailer. 'cause I had a, I had a Honda Element, which is a four cylinder, um, boxy, little, little adventure mobile that I wanted to, you know, use as a, you know, I wanted to be able to tow around the country. So I built this ultra light, um, largely self-sustaining kind of off-grid trailer, you know, solar thin film, solar on the roof and water recycling for the toilet and all the other stuff. And yeah, it was, it was an experience. [00:18:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, mine was, uh, it was my brother-in-law's folks up in Montana. I was up in Montana in 2011 for, uh, like a, a US Cup mountain bike race, [00:18:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:18:52]Brad Bingham: in, up in Missoula and, [00:18:54]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what year is this? [00:18:56]Brad Bingham: 2011. [00:18:57]Randall Jacobs (host): 2011. Okay. So this is towards the tail end. I, I did the, the, um, when it was the Kenda Cup. I don't know if they were still sponsoring. It's like Show Air was a shipping logistics company that was sponsoring, this is like oh 8, 0 9, maybe 2010. So I think maybe the tail end. [00:19:14]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that sounds right. I don't even know if Kenda and Sho were still involved. Like, I, I raced like the, um, like 2010 I think I was doing like the, like Sand Dimas and Fontana. [00:19:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. I did those races. [00:19:30]Brad Bingham: Yep. Did you do [00:19:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So, so, so you were a, uh, you were a private tier pro as well, or are we on a team or, [00:19:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, I was, you know, it was moots. [00:19:39]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:19:39]Brad Bingham: I was riding to Moots and just having, just having fun with it. [00:19:44]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what years did you race? I wonder if we actually lined up next to each other [00:19:48]Brad Bingham: well I raced, I raced pretty hard like nine, 10. [00:19:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, same you do. Sea otter. [00:19:59]Brad Bingham: Uh, oh gosh. I don't think I did sea otter until like 2016. [00:20:06]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:20:07]Brad Bingham: My, um, yeah, my, my pro mountain bike racing, it got, got sidetracked by two hip surgeries. [00:20:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Oof. [00:20:20]Brad Bingham: So I'm trying to remember how hard I went in 2011. I feel like. Oh, yeah, yeah, [00:20:28]Randall Jacobs (host): I had, I had already retired by that [00:20:30]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah, [00:20:30]Randall Jacobs (host): I was like, okay, I've got way too much student loan debt to be living outta my car, you know, spending money to be a professional athlete. [00:20:40]Brad Bingham: yeah. So I had, um, my, my major injury, um, I tore the labrum, tore the labrum in my hip, um, which turns out was a, it was a genetic issue. Um, [00:20:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Interesting. It's just weak in some way, or there's some sort of, [00:20:59]Brad Bingham: of, shape of the femur. [00:21:01]Randall Jacobs (host): okay. My sister did the same thing and she had had to have her shaved. Did you have the, the shaving surgery or did you tear it right through? [00:21:08]Brad Bingham: The shaving. Yep. Same. Yep. So [00:21:14]Randall Jacobs (host): same thing on the other side. [00:21:15]Brad Bingham: correct both sides. Yep. I identical. So that ended up, um, the pain was pretty bad and kind of set me back in 2012. Um, and I prepped myself for surgery at the Steadman Clinic down in Vail, um, and had surgery in on the right leg or the right hip, uh, like February of 2013. And then I had my left one done July of 2013. So 2013 was kind of a throwaway year and, you know, I don't mean that entirely. It was, it was a great year. But, um, [00:21:58]Randall Jacobs (host): In in terms of competing at the highest level in athletics of any sort. Yeah. That, that makes sense. [00:22:06]Brad Bingham: But then I came back, I came back really hard 2014 and like just once I had the go ahead and I was, I had a wonderful physical therapist and I was just getting after it hard. And so at that time also I was working for Kent Erickson and he was like, you know, all about it. Like, yeah, go, go do it. Go go get it while you can, kind of. And uh, [00:22:33]Randall Jacobs (host): not something you do in your forties unless you're, uh, or fifties. Unless you're what? Tinker or, um, uh, Ned. Ned [00:22:42]Brad Bingham: I went like, so 2014 I kind of got myself back in, back in race shape and did things like Breck Epic, um, if you're familiar with that. [00:22:54]Randall Jacobs (host): I am, I got some friends who are doing it this year. I hear it's phenomenal. [00:22:57]Brad Bingham: And uh, yeah, did about a bunch of mountain biking and then I kept ramping it up until about, uh, 2017. So, yeah, it went pretty hard. 'cause my wife was, was racing cross country as well. And so it was something we did together, you know, and I would throw in road races and then, and, and whatever. [00:23:20]Randall Jacobs (host): I was gonna say that that makes a lot of sense that, uh, it was something you shared because otherwise, I mean, you're, you're on the road all the time and it's really hard to be on the road with like, as a, as a partner, be on the road with your partner who's out racing all the time and, you know, [00:23:39]Brad Bingham: yeah, [00:23:40]Randall Jacobs (host): camping at different places or, you know, subletting or, or doing whatever it takes, you know, sleeping on sofas, wherever. [00:23:47]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah. And, uh, like, so 2016, I turned 40 in the fall, so my goal was to do 40 races before I turned 40 that year. [00:24:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Geez, [00:24:03]Brad Bingham: So [00:24:03]Randall Jacobs (host): that's, uh, that's impressive. I just turned 40 and I, I don't have a, I don't think I have a single race in me right now. [00:24:10]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that's alright. That's alright. [00:24:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:24:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. Anyways. Um, but all the way back to the Airstream. Yeah. [00:24:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:24:21]Brad Bingham: Fun project, you know, kind of kept me occupied. Um, as I le after I had left Moots. It, uh, definitely kept me occupied for a good few months [00:24:33]Randall Jacobs (host): And did you tow that around, um, with your wife, train, you know, training and racing everywhere, or, or were we, you just living in it? [00:24:40]Brad Bingham: it was a project. Like it took a, took a long time to get it even to where it is today, which is, I'd call it, I'd call it 90% done. I mean, it's, it's one of those things [00:24:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay, good. Good enough where your motivation is, uh, less than. [00:24:58]Brad Bingham: Yes, it's [00:24:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:00]Brad Bingham: Yes. And, but I. [00:25:03]Randall Jacobs (host): I think, I think that's part of the danger, the dangerous spot that I'm in. 'cause I, I also am like comfortable enough and I got other priorities, but gotta keep things moving along. [00:25:12]Brad Bingham: yeah. [00:25:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:25:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. But, uh, anyway, I didn't have any, I didn't have any plans to start, you know, to, I had no plans to be building bikes after I left Moots. I just wasn't, I just was like, I'm okay with taking some time and figuring out whatever the heck happens. And, uh, and then Ken Erickson, who had left Moots, uh, in 2005, he, he had been doing his thing for a while and he reached out and said, Hey, how about, how about you come back to me? And, uh, with the intention that you take over the business? So, [00:25:53]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. [00:25:55]Brad Bingham: so [00:25:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Wait, so this is, this is his independent business? [00:25:59]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yeah, he started Kent Erickson cycles about a year, a about a year, year and a half after he left Moots, so 2006. So, um, he'd been going for about yeah. Six, seven years. [00:26:16]Randall Jacobs (host): And is he a few years your senior? [00:26:19]Brad Bingham: Uh, yeah. [00:26:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So, so he is, he's been at it, he's been at a long time. [00:26:26]Brad Bingham: Oh, [00:26:26]Randall Jacobs (host): And when did the, how long did you work together before he started to kind of transition outta the business? [00:26:33]Brad Bingham: Uh, so from, it would've been late, late 2012, um, until the late 2016. So four years that, uh, till we bought the business. And then, and then he was on board working for about 18 months afterwards. [00:26:53]Randall Jacobs (host): wow. [00:26:54]Brad Bingham: five and a half years. Yeah. [00:26:55]Randall Jacobs (host): That's really cool. That's like quite, quite narc to have worked together in a different business. Have him leave and then have you kind of take on his thing and have him supporting you in that role. Uh, that sounds really beautiful. [00:27:07]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. He and I, we have a, like, we have a good relationship. I don't spend very much time with him because he does tend to kind of hermit himself up on, on his property and he just, you know, he's, he has a beautiful piece of property up in the mountains and it's like, you know, his slice of heaven, like he doesn't need to go anywhere. Um, but to see him some pretty much gotta go up there. [00:27:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:35]Brad Bingham: um, but yeah, but our working relationship is super good. Like really loved. The time we worked together is very much a lot of back and forth and a lot of mutual respect. And, um, neither of us really got upset with like, criticisms, you know? I mean, we were just really open. So it was nice. [00:28:00]Randall Jacobs (host): And you, you said, um, we bought the business and I, I know that I, I spoke together with my colleague, Sam, with your wife, um, initially before chatting with you. So, uh, you know, share a bit about, about her and, and how the two of you work together and so on. [00:28:17]Brad Bingham: sure. And actually, I mean, I, I, I kind of misspoke because technically it's only myself that owns the business, [00:28:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:28:26]Brad Bingham: but we were together are together, um, in everything that we do there. So, um, it feels like, you know, it feels like we bought it. [00:28:38]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:39]Brad Bingham: but yeah, so, um, so yeah, Hannah and I have been, uh, been together since 2010, like late 2010. And, um, you know, just a, just a fun like athletic. You know, athletic based relationship because we, you know, she was a runner at the time we met, and I was kind of ki I was kind of like still enjoying some running, like I did my first mar marathon with her and, um, my first and only wait, I should, I should had that, um, [00:29:17]Randall Jacobs (host): that's more, that's more than many cyclists. Many cyclists will do. Most cyclists, I don't even know. Uh, a lot of cyclists I know will joke that they don't know how to run. So doing a single marathon is, is not bad. [00:29:30]Brad Bingham: So, so yeah, we had never, we had actually, you know, we'd never worked together. But with this idea of me taking over the business, um, I really wanted somebody there that I, that I could trust to run the books. I knew that that would take such a burden off of me. [00:29:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:29:52]Brad Bingham: um, so we, we agreed that, um, that that's how we would do it, and it's worked out really well. Um, and yeah, yeah, she, she has a, she had been working in some other outdoor, um, some other outdoor companies that are located in Steamboat Springs. Um, she'd been doing bookkeeping and accounting for those companies, so she was, well, well versed and ready to take it on. Um, and [00:30:23]Randall Jacobs (host): And, uh, [00:30:24]Brad Bingham: mm-hmm. [00:30:25]Randall Jacobs (host): oh, go ahead. [00:30:26]Brad Bingham: Oh, and she also, like, she, you know, makes the website happen, makes the web store happen, keeps all the backend stuff going. So [00:30:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:30:36]Brad Bingham: you know, it's a, it's a huge component to the business. Um, I'm sure [00:30:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. [00:30:41]Brad Bingham: as you know, um, it really allows me to draw some, to draw some lines of things that I work on and things that I don't work on. [00:30:51]Randall Jacobs (host): I mean, it's, it's exhausting Otherwise, uh, you know, especially like early days when, when, if it's, if it's just one person or just two people and everyone's doing everything, uh, I mean, I, it works for some people, but it definitely constrained scale. And it also means that there's a lot of context switching from, you know, now I wanna focus on products, but you know, now I have to do a whole bunch of customer service emails and then, you know, I need to do some, some marketing outreach and, oh, you know, uh, have we paid that bill yet? [00:31:24]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep. [00:31:25]Randall Jacobs (host): Uh, [00:31:26]Brad Bingham: But, but, but we're tiny, you know, we're a tiny little operation, so [00:31:31]Randall Jacobs (host): it, it's the two of you. [00:31:33]Brad Bingham: it's the two of us and one employee. [00:31:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:31:37]Brad Bingham: Yep. [00:31:37]Randall Jacobs (host): And, and what is your, uh, what's your other team member doing? [00:31:41]Brad Bingham: So Ed, ed is our, our third man, and, uh, he's like, does all of the final, final assemblies. So, uh, you know, complete, complete build outs. Um, he is, uh, he's a veteran of the bike world. Uh, he used to own one of the bike shops here in downtown Steamboat. Uh, he's a certified motorcycle mechanic. Uh, um, so he's just, he's just awesome, super, super diverse. So he builds, he builds all of my wheels, like I said, does the final assemblies. He kind of manages the, the web orders and ships product based on those incoming web orders. Um, and then, and then he's also in production. So he's, uh, does all the finish work on the frames. Uh, that's like bead blasting and polishing, you know, brushing what everything that kind of takes place after I weld it, [00:32:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:32:47]Brad Bingham: you will. Um, and then [00:32:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you're doing the tube selection, mitering and all the upstream up there, is that right? [00:32:55]Brad Bingham: correct. Yeah. [00:32:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:32:57]Brad Bingham: Yep. And then he has, oh yeah, yeah, exactly. So he has some, uh, you know, some machining, some other machining roles as well. But those are like, it's, it's really funny just how they fall into the production process. 'cause like he, like I, it's like we always need something. There's always something to be done, [00:33:24]Randall Jacobs (host): So what's the, what's the process like? Like say, you know, one of our listeners, um, was looking to get a custom bike, uh, built with you. How does that, how does the communication work? How's, what's the, the process you take them through? [00:33:37]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So typically they reach out, excuse me. Typically they reach out through the, the website and then the conversation starts. Um, we have a pretty basic. Kind of intake form, if you will, uh, fit form. And we start with that. Uh, that does have a lot of, uh, a lot of measurements that they can provide, uh, if I were to be creating the fit based on those measurements. But what I am seeing more and more is that clients are coming with a fit, you know, most often a retool fit, [00:34:14]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. Same. [00:34:15]Brad Bingham: totally dialed. Yep. And so then the, depending on our workload, uh, you know, sometimes we have to delay, um, the conversation because I've just got too many clients currently that I'm working with, [00:34:33]Randall Jacobs (host): It's a good, good problem to have. [00:34:35]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. Generally it's a good problem. Yeah. So, um, but we start the conversation, you know, again, every, every client is a little bit different. Nothing. No scenario is exactly the same, but, um, most often we create a, create an estimate for the build out that they're looking for. Um, you know, if, if it's a complete build, of course they wanna see what that's gonna look like. Um, so we provide, we provide estimates, uh, with no, um, you know, with no deposit, no, no obligation to purchase. Um, we want them to see, you know, where, how they're spending their money. Um, once they're satisfied that like the pro that things look good, um, then we take a deposit and then we really dive into the design work. Um, try to avoid putting in a lot of front end design work with no, um, you know, with no obligation. I. [00:35:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. And I mean, you can get, you can go pretty far in kind of teasing out high level, a high level understanding of what the rider needs. And also I. They can get a real sense of whether, you know, whether it's going to be the right match for them, you know, with those initial conversations. So that totally makes sense. And then when you are, when you are looking at like, okay, so what are the different, walk us through like the different parameters of frame design for a particular rider. What, what are the, the different levers that you can pull? And then what information are you teasing out from the rider, either through that fit info or those conversations to, to determine, you know, how that bike gets created? [00:36:20]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I mean, you wanna, you wanna get kind of deep [00:36:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. Let's go, let's go. Full nerd. Uh, so I, I think I shared with you previously, like I had, you know, did a two episode, uh, conversation with Craig Calie that was got into boron infused resin and like, you know, I think Josh Porter and I were talking about. The creation of CAD tools for modeling a spinning wheel. Uh, so we, we can go as, we can go as nerdy as we like. So yeah, give give us, give us the full nerd version. [00:36:52]Brad Bingham: Well, since we're on the gravel ride, um, you know, let's talk or let's talk a little bit around a gravel bike. Um, but when there's, you know, so for example, a lot of my clients do tend to be like, you know, their, their experience riders of a certain age, let's say. So a lot of those fits, you know, they, they are changing. Um, so, you know, you really want to look at all of the parameters and, you know, weight bias, rear wheel, front wheel is a biggie. Uh, so you kinda identify that pretty, pretty quickly. You know, you can adjust that of course, by front center and stem length. I. Um, to achieve a weight bias that you're, that you're happy with. But, you know, generally speaking, um, you want to, um, with those more upright positions, you know, you want to have increased trail, you want to have a longer front center. Um, you want, you know, if you're, because if you're gonna, if you're gonna have a short stem, you want higher trail. [00:38:10]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, because you're effectively without all else equal on the trail side, you're speeding up the, the ratio of, of, uh, you know, less input for the same amount of output when you go with a shorter stem. Less stability. Yeah. [00:38:26]Brad Bingham: Yeah. And, and then depending on, you know, what, what you've done with the, like chainstay length and the rear wheel weight bias, you know, that. Quickly lightens the front end. Um, so you got, you need to be, yeah, you need to be careful there. Um, so yeah, and it's like every rider is different. If you're more aggressive and, you know, racy on the gravel bike, then yeah, you might be looking for a, um, you know, for a longer stem, more weight on the front contact, front contact patch, um, [00:39:08]Randall Jacobs (host): Potentially less, less frontal area in a, in a more kind of, you know, locomotive type position for long flats and things like that as well. [00:39:18]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:39:20]Brad Bingham: Absolutely. Um, you know, a lot of those things, a lot of those changes do end up being perception and not, not all that much reality. The, the frontal area. Yeah, it's huge, [00:39:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:39:38]Brad Bingham: But wheel base doesn't, you know, if a shorter wheel base is gonna be perceived as quick, oh, this is fast, right? But no, it's not, you're not going any faster because [00:39:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. Yeah. It's the, the sensation of speed and, and responsiveness, which, you know, another, the flip side of the same coin is twitchiness, right? Whether it's responsive or twitchy is depends on who you are and whether you've crossed the line from one to the other. [00:40:11]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So, but in the custom world, you know, in the custom world it's nice 'cause you have all of the levers to pull. You can do, you can do anything with it, which is, which is wonderful. Um, because I do see a lot of pretty odd or out of the norm cockpits and, and you really want to give them an experience. You wanna create a bike underneath them that just feels right. Like, wow, this, this is comfortable. I mean, it's, you know, a longer wheel base on a gravel bike is really much more comfortable, uh, for the long haul. If you, you know, especially if you're an older rider, um, those, you know, the frequency of, of bumps, you know, washboards, you can, you can change that drastically, uh, with a slightly longer wheel base. [00:41:05]Randall Jacobs (host): Tell me more about that. How does that actually work? [00:41:07]Brad Bingham: Well, because you have the slacker head angle, which [00:41:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:41:12]Brad Bingham: inherently allows the fork to flex a little more. [00:41:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:41:18]Brad Bingham: Right? And then, and then the, the longer wheel base, you know, um, just geometrically it, it doesn't have to, the, the angle of change. Is lessened [00:41:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay, [00:41:34]Brad Bingham: as you go over, as you go over a rise or through a pothole, that that angle of change is, is lessened on a longer wheel base. [00:41:43]Randall Jacobs (host): It hadn't occurred to me that, so you're saying like a degree of head tube angle change, all else equal, same fork, same tubes, and everything else will actually [00:41:53]Brad Bingham: you'll feel that. Yeah. You'll feel that flex. Uh, that definitely. [00:42:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Got it. 'cause I, I was thinking of it purely in terms of its effect on trail or like the caster effect to, to simplify it for those who don't know trail and um, uh, and you know, potentially the introduction of tire flop, which usually is in an issue on, you know, gravel bikes. 'cause the head tubes aren't slack enough. Yeah. Huh? [00:42:22]Brad Bingham: yeah, there, there's that. There's also, you know, again, back to like slightly longer wheel base. Shorter stem. Shorter. I think there is some, some also, um, comfort gained by, um, how much weight is on the hands, what you feel through the, what you feel through the front. But that's really driven by the overall cockpit and the, the fit parameters, you know, [00:42:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:42:50]Brad Bingham: so, but [00:42:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Basically where that, those three points in space where the, uh, the angle of the hypotenuse between them. [00:42:58]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep. [00:43:00]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:43:00]Brad Bingham: So, so, yeah. You know, they, it's pretty quick, uh, pretty quick to tell the difference in how, how smooth bikes are, um, with those pretty, pretty small dimensional changes. Um, but it's even, it's been difficult for me even in design where I go, oh wow. I don't, wow. I don't wanna change the front center by, by that much. Like, oh, that's, That's 20 millimeters and then you have to remember, wait, it's 20 millimeters. It's nothing like, [00:43:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, as a, as a percentage, if you're dealing with a bike that has a wheel base, use a round number of like a thousand, usually a large gravel bike could be a bit longer than that. [00:43:44]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:43:44]Randall Jacobs (host): You know, 20 millimeters, so 2%. [00:43:48]Brad Bingham: Right. [00:43:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:43:50]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. But it's [00:43:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Though, in terms of, in terms of mass distribution over the two axles, it's gonna be bigger than that because it's relative to its distance to the the bottom bracket. So the rear end is staying unless you change the rear end with it as well. [00:44:04]Brad Bingham: sure, sure. And I, I think, I think oftentimes it is smart to adjust that rear center in a accordingly, um, because otherwise you will end up with, um, too much rear weight bias, you know, [00:44:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:44:20]Brad Bingham: so. [00:44:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Which, which can be, which can be fun if you like wheelies and for a certain type of riding, [00:44:25]Brad Bingham: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, the bike, I'm like, the bike I'm riding right now is, uh, I think it's about a four, I think it's like a 4 27, uh, chain state. That's center to center. Not effect, not uh, horizontal, but [00:44:44]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [00:44:45]Brad Bingham: center to center. It's like a, like a 4 [00:44:48]Randall Jacobs (host): So horizontal, it's gonna be, you know, for 23 it's a pretty tight, [00:44:53]Brad Bingham: Yeah, it's pretty. [00:44:53]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, actually, no, not that much, but yeah, 4 24 or something like that. [00:44:57]Brad Bingham: Yeah, actually I think it is less, um, because the drop is probably, I think the drop on my rig is like at least 73, 75 maybe I forget now. Um, but that's a pretty tight, tight rear. And then the front is like a, I think the, my current ride is like a 71.7 head angle with a 47 fork, you know, [00:45:20]Randall Jacobs (host): How tall are you? [00:45:21]Brad Bingham: uh, probably five, 10, maybe a sh [00:45:25]Randall Jacobs (host): 10. [00:45:26]Brad Bingham: yeah. [00:45:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So on a larger, medium, smaller, large, sort of, if you were to fall into a, a conventional bike? [00:45:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah, [00:45:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:45:37]Brad Bingham: And uh, [00:45:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Just, just for context. 'cause then, 'cause then, you know, understanding like a, you know, an extra large rider is gonna be riding, uh, even if you scale that bike up, well you, you can't really, because the wheels don't scale. [00:45:49]Brad Bingham: right, [00:45:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you have to adjust those, those angles and those lengths and stuff like that. Not just proportional, but also to account for the fact that the wheels are staying, uh, which, which I always thought was an interesting opportunity. Uh, you do see some brands that, um, uh, will, you know, restrict to like a six 50 B on their smallest sizes, for example. Uh, [00:46:09]Brad Bingham: You do see that a lot. Yeah. [00:46:12]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. I, I, I think we should bring back 26 for those really small riders who wanna run two point fours, but I guess there's not enough of a market or a marketing, uh, uh, you know, edge to be gained from it, so. [00:46:25]Brad Bingham: Yeah. I, I, I find that, uh, my more like, my more experienced clients that are, that are very small, they're, they're really looking for 700. [00:46:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:46:38]Brad Bingham: they're, they, they [00:46:39]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, it's interesting. Same. And how much of that is, what do you think are the drivers of that? Is that, do you think it's actually better for the vast majority of those riders, or, [00:46:52]Brad Bingham: I think that the, the, again, kind of back to that going, you know, actually going fast comfortably, like comfortably going fast, you're going to do that better on a 700 than on a six [00:47:07]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, just rolling resistance attack angle, things like [00:47:11]Brad Bingham: Yes. Yes, exactly. [00:47:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So, [00:47:15]Brad Bingham: and we. [00:47:16]Randall Jacobs (host): so worth the com worth the compromises on, maybe responsiveness or, or what have you. 'cause you're definitely giving up something there, even if you do proportional cranks. [00:47:24]Brad Bingham: for sure. Yeah. But I, I think like there's, you know, you know how it is, there's a, the, the sharp end of a peloton they want, or, or the entire Peloton, they want responsiveness. [00:47:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:38]Brad Bingham: but you know, for [00:47:40]Randall Jacobs (host): how do you do it on those really small frames? Like, you know, you have a, a five foot ri, five foot tall rider come in and they want to do gravel racing. Four foot 10. Yeah. Four foot 10. I mean, there's, it's unfortunate, um, there's almost nothing out there off the shelf for a rider who's four foot 10 and they end up on these bikes with no standover and a 40 mil stem, and they're still not fit properly. [00:48:03]Brad Bingham: yeah. So I, I take advantage of, so seven cycles, [00:48:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [00:48:09]Brad Bingham: been producing, producing a fork called the the matador. [00:48:14]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:48:14]Brad Bingham: for quite a while. It has a 55 millimeter offset. [00:48:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:48:19]Brad Bingham: So you can get, you can get pretty slack with the front end and still keep it, um, you know, on the low, low lowish side of trail. Um, [00:48:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. And for, for those who don't know, um, when you increase the offset, you decrease the trail all l sql. And when you de, when you increase the head angle, you um, decrease the trail as well. You essentially less trail, less castor effect all else equal, more, more responsive or more twitchy, depending on whether you've crossed over into, you know, if you went too far, it wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to handle the bike over much. [00:48:58]Brad Bingham: Right. [00:48:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:49:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So those, you know, and tow overlap is a real, is a real thing. And when you start talking about a bike that's gonna clear a 45 millimeter tire, um, so. [00:49:12]Randall Jacobs (host): a four 10 rider. Yeah. That's, that's hard to pull out. Are you doing, really, are you finding proportional cranks too? Are you running one fifties or one 40 fives or, or this sort of thing? [00:49:22]Brad Bingham: Yeah. I think to date, one 50 is the smallest I've gone. [00:49:27]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:49:28]Brad Bingham: so, um, but those bikes, you know, they're, yeah, they're not, they're not racing at a high level, you know, they're, they're out enjoying gravel rides. [00:49:43]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah, [00:49:44]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:49:45]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. Those, I'll just comment, just, uh, anecdotally the conversations I've had, particularly with some of our smallest riders is proportional crack lengths makes such a big difference. And like people are, people are just used to riding the same cranks that you and I. You know, ride their whole lives and they never knew anything different or like their bike. You know, I've, I've had riders that are five foot tall and their bikes came with one 70 fives. You know, they had a, they had a hybrid or something like that, or, or they're coming off of something, or like an older road bike and I put 'em on one 50 fives and it's just like, I can spin, [00:50:20]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:50:21]Randall Jacobs (host): spin it. High cadences. My, my pedal stroke doesn't fall apart when I'm tired. [00:50:25]Brad Bingham: Well also, you know, you look at bike, bike frame design and bike frame design has been dictated by what is a common crank arm length, you know, one 70 to 1 [00:50:34]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Exactly. Together, together with, uh, uh, you know, the outer attire radius, which is in turn driven by the, the rim dimensions. So like six 50 B or, or 26 versus 700 and so on, uh, puts different constraints. And then you have BB drop. If you have smaller wheels, you can't have as much BB drop, which means you're kind of more on top of the bike. And so you have all these different factors that impact each other that you're balancing. [00:51:03]Brad Bingham: yeah. And I'm, I'd say overall, my, my design philosophy is you have, uh, the, kind of the lowest. Possible center of gravity. Um, so maintaining, uh, you know, a low, low bottom bracket, um, whatever is acceptable for like, you know, wheel base crank, arm length, intended pedal, all those things. [00:51:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, essentially is, is, I mean, there's really not much reason not to go as low as you can go without risking pedal strikes [00:51:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:51:37]Randall Jacobs (host): more or less any application. And it's just a matter of what the application demands. Like a road bike that's doing crit racing, it's gonna need to hire bb 'cause you wanna be able to pedal out of the corner as soon as possible. Um, dual suspension, mountain bike, you know, same deal. But it's, it's, uh, you need to hire BB because you have all that squish. [00:51:56]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah. Cycl, lacrosse, bikes, you know, side hill, side hilling, and [00:52:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So it's interesting, you know, as gravel has, has taken over, um, cross and road. Arguably you ha like a lot of people who previously might have had a road bike now might only have a gravel bike that they use for road two. Uh, but like cross cross bikes have seemed to kind of converge with gravel bikes. You don't see a lot of high BB cross bikes, at least to my knowledge, on the production side anymore. [00:52:26]Brad Bingham: Correct. I think that's been a, I think that's been driven by how people are actually using the bikes. [00:52:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:34]Brad Bingham: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:36]Randall Jacobs (host): right. So we've, we've, we've gone pretty deep on geometry. How about, uh, tubes? [00:52:41]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. So in, in my [00:52:44]Randall Jacobs (host): the levers you can pull? [00:52:45]Brad Bingham: in my world, you know, I work with titanium exclusively, and everything that I have in-house is straight gauge tubing. Um, the [00:52:58]Randall Jacobs (host): Is this all pre preformed as tubes or are you buying any flat sheets and rolling and, and welding them? [00:53:04]Brad Bingham: no, no, the, uh, no, nothing like, [00:53:07]Randall Jacobs (host): like the six four stuff. [00:53:09]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, I have visited some of those factories that, that perform that function. Um, but it's just not, yeah, in my opinion, it's, it's barking up the wrong tree. Um, the tubing that I get, the vast majority of it is from Washington State, from Sandvik, which is actually, they just recently were kind of rebranded to their Swedish parent company name, which is Aima. So it's, [00:53:42]Randall Jacobs (host): Interesting. Sandik makes, um, the wire that's used in spokes as well. [00:53:46]Brad Bingham: uh, I believe it. [00:53:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, so like we, we use Pillar Spokes and they use Sandvik. I think SENE does as well, and it makes sense, right? These are high grade, um, high performance, uh, alloys. [00:53:59]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:54:00]Randall Jacobs (host): Huh, I didn't know that. [00:54:01]Brad Bingham: there's, there's only two, two places in the United States that produces titanium tubing. And that's, uh, Alma in Washington State and Hayes in Louisiana, [00:54:13]Randall Jacobs (host): And that's actually produced. So they're, they're getting the raw material from somewhere and they're forming it into tubes here, forming it into alloys here, or alloying it, and then forming it here. [00:54:25]Brad Bingham: Yeah. The, the, what they refer to as Tube Hollow, that is kind of the last step of the process before it actually becomes a tube that, that Tube Hollow is all sorted out. Like the alloy is correct, the condition is correct, and then they manufacture the tube from that. Um, and then at that, from that point forward, you know, all they can, all they can do to it is, uh, alter the condition through a kneeling and, and working [00:54:58]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Okay. [00:54:59]Brad Bingham: So I get most, the vast majority of my tubes come from Washington State. And those come in, uh, typically in like 17 foot lengths. Um, yeah. [00:55:13]Randall Jacobs (host): So you have a dedicated truck coming to you, you're buying [00:55:16]Brad Bingham: Oh yeah. [00:55:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. To move that sort of thing. You're not, you're not doing less than, less than container load. You're doing like a a box trucker or something? [00:55:24]Brad Bingham: yeah. I mean, it usually comes by freight. It's, uh, and then you have, you know, minimum footage requirements, um, per purchase. So, and, and that's minimum footage, requirement per diameter, per wall thickness. [00:55:40]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:55:40]Brad Bingham: So you have to buy, you know, um, it ends up being thousands of feet of material to have enough material selection on hand that you feel good about the, the tubing you can offer. [00:55:56]Randall Jacobs (host): So you're buying, and this is just, you're sourcing just for yourself. You're not consolidating with other builders. [00:56:01]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yeah. Nobody else. [00:56:04]Randall Jacobs (host): That's a, yeah, that's a big commitment of, uh, of capital. [00:56:08]Brad Bingham: It is, it's very, very large. Um, [00:56:11]Randall Jacobs (host): So I would imagine like you basically spend a whole bunch of money early in the season and, well, I, no, I guess you're, you're probably able to kind of keep your demand consistent over the years. So you probably do a couple buys a year or something like [00:56:23]Brad Bingham: yeah. You end up buying enough material that you're gonna be, you, you'll have that material for literally years, you know, all, so, [00:56:33]Randall Jacobs (host): I would think especially some of the more esoteric SKUs with high, high, um, uh, minimum order quantities. [00:56:39]Brad Bingham: correct. [00:56:40]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:56:41]Brad Bingham: Yeah. But it's okay. Like, yeah. That's, that's the, that is the titanium world, because if, if you want the highest quality American made tubing, then that's, that's what it takes, period. [00:56:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:56:54]Brad Bingham: There's other way to get it. [00:56:56]Randall Jacobs (host): And then what is, what are other people doing? Are they working through distributors and just hot paying? I'm, I'm curious about the, the business side of it as well. Like, are there, so, so here in the Hudson Valley where I am, we have, uh, vicious cycles and, uh, Um, Carl. Yeah, so Kyle's, I was out on a ride with him the other day. He'll, he'll be at Made as well. I know you'll be at Made too. Um, but he's, he, his other, the other side of his business, I forget the name of it, is the, I think the biggest distributor of steel tubes or one of the biggest distributors of steel tubes. And so you can do small batch, you can order as you go, but presumably pay, pay a premium. But does that sort of thing exist in Ty? Must exist in titanium as well? [00:57:37]Brad Bingham: It [00:57:38]Randall Jacobs (host): Not as much, [00:57:39]Brad Bingham: not, not in the, not in the same way. Um, you can certainly purchase, uh, tube sets like from, uh, data chi, uh, Columbus. Uh, but those are all, you know, Reynolds, um, aura Titanium, but those are all overseas. Third [00:58:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Or is Taiwan right? [00:58:04]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Aus, Taiwan. [00:58:05]Randall Jacobs (host): to their, yeah, I've been to their factory. [00:58:08]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. I've got some, I have some dropouts coming from them to, to check out. Um, hopefully they're here like today or tomorrow. Um, but, uh, but titanium is, uh, titanium is just such a difficult material to create. There's, there's, you know, not a lot of players, um, in that world. And it's expensive, you [00:58:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:58:36]Brad Bingham: so that, yeah, to put that outlay of capital to create tube sets for distribution, like that's being taken on by those larger companies like Columbus, data Chi and such. [00:58:52]Randall Jacobs (host): It reminds me, uh, I'm gonna go off on a, a tangent here. Um, you ever hear about the, the Black Hawk, um, uh, spy plane? Think could do like mock 3.4 [00:59:04]Brad Bingham: yeah, they [00:59:05]Randall Jacobs (host): it was, [00:59:05]Brad Bingham: kerosene coffin. [00:59:08]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, it used to leak it. The, the temperatures when you're going Mach three plus are so high because you're essentially compressing the air ahead of you and creating that massive shock wave. But also you just, you know, compressing all that heat energy and then there's, it's impossible to dissipate it faster that they, and the expansion in the titanium would be such that they built it so that it was leaking when it took off, and then all the gaps would seal up when you're actually up in the air. And then they'd have to do air to air refueling, [00:59:38]Brad Bingham: I'm kind of a, I'm kind of an SSR 71 Blackbird, um, nerd. [00:59:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Nerd. All right. So then, so then you know about how, um, uh, the, the titanium was sourced [00:59:51]Brad Bingham: Oh, well, no, I, maybe [00:59:54]Randall Jacobs (host): from, from the U S S R through, through like intermediaries. So a us, uh, us you know, Soviet Union. So a US spy plane built to spy on the Soviet Union in, I think, you know, that plane was, uh, launched what in the, in the seventies? [01:00:12]Brad Bingham: The, the Blackbird, [01:00:13]Randall Jacobs (host): was it? Yeah. Was it even earlier? [01:00:15]Brad Bingham: it was earlier. It was developed in the fifties and into the si and into [01:00:19]Randall Jacobs (host): then decommit maybe, then maybe decommissioned in the seventies [01:00:23]Brad Bingham: Well, it was top secret until I forget. I don't know. I forget the date, but, yeah. [01:00:29]Randall Jacobs (host): until, uh, yeah, that I, I always found that interesting that, uh, it's like buy, buying this material that it, but it, it does speak to the fact, not just of Cold War tensions, but also of, you know, even a, a power as seemingly mighty as the US had to source this particular material from an adversary, um, because of what you're speaking to, the difficulty of producing it. Um, Then you get into like the, the properties of this material, which, you know, were essential to being able to create that craft at the time in the first place. But, you know, that craft required major compromises and usability that made it, you know, dangerous and expensive to, to build and operate. Uh, you know, sitting in a pool of kerosene on a runway is, uh, I guess does it light easily? I don't think it lights all that easily, but, um, [01:01:24]Brad Bingham: No, no. They just, [01:01:25]Randall Jacobs (host): still not a good thing. [01:01:26]Brad Bingham: they just said that it, that's what they called it. Um, just because you could smell the, the fuel, you know. Um, but yeah, but the, the SR 71 is a, uh, was a development project, you know, uh, that we can thank for so much of the, the titanium that we use today and, and a lot of the manufacturing, you know, the manufacturing processes that were used in the nineties, you know, to make, um, to, you know, Merlin Lights, lights, speed, all those brands. Um, yeah. Have you ever been up close to an sr? [01:02:07]Randall Jacobs (host): No. Where can you, where can you do it? [01:02:10]Brad Bingham: um, I think, well they, they tend to travel around to the different air, you know, aerospace, air and space museums. Um, I was up close with one in, uh, McMinnville, Oregon at the Evergreen Aviation Museum, [01:02:27]Randall Jacobs (host): Huh? [01:02:28]Brad Bingham: that was super cool. They, um, they were allowing. You just sit in it as well. And, but then I believe there was one at the, the Pima Air Space Museum in, uh, uh, Tucson. [01:02:45]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [01:02:45]Brad Bingham: So, um, yeah, [01:02:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Right by the boneyard, [01:02:48]Brad Bingham: correct. Yeah, [01:02:49]Randall Jacobs (host): which is, uh, the decommissioning location. You just have, if you've ever those listening, if you've ever seen pictures of thousands of aircraft sitting in a desert, that's the boneyard outside of Tucson. It's an insane place. Um, [01:03:03]Brad Bingham: But, but at that, the one I was looking at there, when you went up to the, like the jet engine cowling, you, and you look closely, uh, you, you're looking at these massive pieces of titanium and if you look closely, you can see the end mill machining marks, you can see how that was machined and it was probably done manually. [01:03:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. Especially at that age, uh, at that, uh, that vintage. [01:03:36]Brad Bingham: hours and hours that probably went into that. So pretty, pretty cool. Yeah. Cool stuff. [01:03:42]Randall Jacobs (host): There's, um, y you've probably come across the, there's videos on YouTube with, uh, interviewing the engineers who worked on that project in particular, some of the, oh, um, okay. Welcome to your next rabbit hole. [01:03:54]Brad Bingham: I rarely go down the YouTube rabbit [01:03:56]Randall Jacobs (host): This, this is a worthy one. I would say. There was, there was one, uh, there was a couple interviews I, I watched with, uh, someone who worked on the engines, uh, for that craft. So an engine that's pushing, you know, 3.2, 3.4 m at, you know, again, fifties, sixties technology. Um, and one, it's cool stuff, but two, um, just the delight that, that you see in, in, you know, he's, he's still, you know, in 2023 giving tours and talking about that experience of working on these [01:04:31]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. Super cool. [01:04:34]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Um, cool. All right, so we've, we've, thank you for indulging my rabbit hole. Seems like we have another thing in common. Uh, uh, so, so, okay. So you have your tubes. Um, [01:04:49]Brad Bingham: Oh

This week we sit down with Joe Earley, the driving force behind Tifosi's remarkable success. Earley traces his roots in mountain biking back to college years in Georgia, where the community's vibrant cycling culture exerted a significant influence. Joe describes his early days as a outside rep in the cycling industry alongside his wife which laid crucial groundwork to the founding of Tifosi.  They recognized an opportunity in the world of sunglasses, spurred by the market's demand for cost-effective yet quality options.  The Tifosi brand was established in 2003.  Joe describes Tifosi's in-depth attention to the smallest details. Adjustable ear pads, nose pads, innovative ventilation, and photochromic lenses - everything designed with the athlete in mind. They have integrated style with utility in the 'Swank', a lifestyle-looking glass that showcases their commitment to high-quality materials. For gravel cyclists, Earley recommends the fog-resistant, rimless glasses from the rail series. With an easy lens-swapping mechanism, users can adjust according to different lighting situations. Tifosi Optics Website Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Hey Joe, welcome to the show. [00:00:02]Joe Earley: Thanks for having me. [00:00:04]Craig Dalton (host): I'm excited to get into the story of Te Foci. As I was saying to you offline, I've been aware of the brand for, it feels like my entire cycling career, so it's great to have you on and just kind of learn a little bit more of the backstory and why don't we use that as our starting point. Let's learn a little bit about your backstory. How'd you just, how'd you find cycling to begin with in your life, and where'd you grow up? [00:00:26]Joe Earley: know, um, I think, uh, similarly to you, um, You know, at college, mountain biking was catching on like crazy in the early nineties. And, uh, I was spending a summer with my, my older brother who had a mountain bike and I borrowed a mountain bike and instantly, as soon as I went, uh, I was hooked and, uh, really have been in, in the sport of cycling ever since. So, you know, early nineties got into mountain biking that transitioned to road cycling and then cycl across, and then now, Gravel road mountain bike, although I am recovering from a rotator cuff surgery, so I'm just on the road in gravel now. No mountain biking for a bit longer, but, uh, but yeah, that's how I got, um, got started in, uh, in the sports, uh, was really just through my, through my brother and, uh, Through college, just jumping on a mountain bike. So, um, you know, and then similarly to you, I had a, just a passion, um, for cycling. Just loved it. And, um, got my first job outta college and went and did that for a while. Sales managing for, for a, a boat dealership of all things. And then, um, my wife, uh, Elizabeth, who runs the business with me, her dad was a, a rep in the cycling, in the tractor industry. So he sold like tractor attachments. And I said, you know what, what Henry does, I, I could probably do that in, in cycling, right? There's gotta be some of those out there. So I picked up like a mountain bike action. I flipped to the back, to the list of advertisers and I just started calling companies. And, um, we started our own, um, independent cycling agency first. So that was our, our first business in the, in the cycling space. Um, we ended up having a very successful agency here in the southeast. So we're based right [00:02:08]Craig Dalton (host): gonna ask Joe, where, [00:02:09]Joe Earley: Georgia. [00:02:11]Craig Dalton (host): where were you in, where were you in college when you first discovered mountain [00:02:14]Joe Earley: Uh, so I was at University of Georgia. Uh, I spent a, a summer in Birmingham, actually in, uh, Oak Mountain State Park. Any listeners in that area? Uh, one of the best mountain bike places I've ever been to still today, and I've been riding for 30 plus years. Um, so that was one of the first places I was exposed to, to mountain biking, but then came back here, uh, to college in the fall and, uh, Go Dogs, university of Georgia Town here. We're in Watkinsville, Georgia, which is about 10 minutes from the University of Georgia in Athens. So, um, [00:02:42]Craig Dalton (host): And, and I feel like in that sort of early to mid nineties, Georgia actually had a nor national race over in, in the [00:02:49]Joe Earley: yeah, so actually we had, we had some interesting things. We actually hosted the, uh, the first Olympic mountain bike race here in Atlanta. We went to see that, that was crazy. It's, it's so hot here, uh, in the summer. So it was, uh, it was interesting seeing those guys hammer along. But yeah, there's been, um, you know, there's, there's also I think been a Norman National that used to be up at Sly, uh, in North Carolina, which is right over the, the border. But, um, really active, um, mountain bike scene and, and cycling scene in general here in the southeast. Athens has always been a big, you know, cycling area, the Twilight Criterium, uh, one of the best. Probably road, um, cycling events to watch in the States. 'cause it's, it's downtown Athens at night. It's when students are in, it's, uh, it's a pretty electric vibe. So it's a, it's a fun area for this. [00:03:35]Craig Dalton (host): And would you describe it as being a vibrant cycling community year round in Georgia? [00:03:40]Joe Earley: Um, yeah, I mean definitely there's pockets of, of areas where it's not as accessible. You know, if you're, if you're in parts of Atlanta, The, the, just with traffic and everything else, it's just not as accessible as a lot of other cities. Athens seems is a, is a pretty good community. We're in Watkinsville, which is a small town outside of it, but there's a lot of, you know, Atlanta does have the Silver Comet, which is a rails trail that goes all the way from Atlanta proper all the way out to the Alabama state line. Um, and so it's, it's a nice, uh, venue to have there. So it's a, you know, it's a, it's a very. Cycling friendly community overall, just, I wouldn't ride on a lot of the roads in, in Atlanta, it's a little bit hairy just 'cause of the amount of volume and there's not a lot of dedicated, like some cities, a lot of dedicated, um, bike lanes. [00:04:27]Craig Dalton (host): So you mentioned you and your wife started, uh, an independent rep agency focused on the cycling industry. What were the first products that you picked up? [00:04:35]Joe Earley: my gosh. The first products we picked up, um, brands that are gone now, um, rocket Power Parts, which was like a, a glove company. Um, we did Cantina Mountain bike gear. I. Um, CKA Cranks for a while. Um, but then the first brands that we picked up that we really started to be able to build a business with, um, Louis Gar Apparel, uh, out of Quebec City. And then, um, Marin Mountain Bikes. They didn't have any sales in our territory, but we were able to start building a business with those brands. And then, uh, over time we picked up, you know, a lot of great brands. Um, we were doing CD shoes, Easton, when they launched their cycling. Um, Products independently from selling through other people doing their, their carbon fiber products. Um, gosh, what else do we have? We did cliff bars, another southeast company, defeat socks. Uh, we did sunglass brands. We did a lot of different, or a couple of different sunglass brands over the years. Um, and that's kind of what led to tci. We had a very successful cycling agency. We were selling what was at the time, the number one, you know, cycling, sunglass, and I would make a great commission for those. Your listeners don't understand what an independent rep does. It's. You're a 10 99 independent contractor, you only make money on what you sell. So it's not like these companies are paying you a, a, a salary, it's if you sell a one of their products, you make a commission on it, uh, and you're selling to the bike shops. So we would place a, a display of 12 or 24 pairs of these higher end products, and, and we get a nice commission at that point. And then I'd go around the next month to see Craig and say, Hey, Craig, you know, uh, What's going on with the sunglasses? It looks like you've sold a pair, you know, and they would sell one or two a month at most. Um, and I'm like, guys, I can't stop the car for one pair of sunglasses. How can we sell some more? [00:06:19]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. I think that's another like interesting point just to make sure everybody understands, is like as a independent sales rep, you're going out and visiting throughout the territory. Maybe it's Georgia or the broader Southeast, and you're visiting every single shop. Your job is to figure out how to sell the products. You're obviously selling, but what, what's selling in the shops? Like, what should you be bringing to them? 'cause that's how you make money. [00:06:45]Joe Earley: And it's, it was a great, um, great business. Loved it still. In fact, my, my former agency, a fellow who worked for me runs it now. Um, so still, still exists. Um, great. Interacting with the retailers. 'cause what's great about the cycling industry is that the. The retailers and the shop owners. In the shop buyers, they are the market. You know, they're kind of like me and you. They got into it 'cause they, they like cycling. There's not a lot of people in the cycling industry that. Oh, well, I just, I, I wanted to, you know, start a, a great business and make millions of dollars, so I'm gonna go sell bikes, right? It's just not that type of market. So, um, you know, you're interacting with people who get the product, they get what is exciting to their consumers. Um, and so that was, that was a great learning experience just overall about products and demand and what. Selling through products. Um, you know, and we consistently see our retailers and they have sold a pair of sunglasses. And as we were talking to them, the feedback was if they had something that was nice at a, at a lower price point, they thought they could sell, you know, more products. Um, at the same time, you know, I knew lots of reps in other territories, so we just started calling other reps in other territories going, Hey, Do you see something like this? And at the time, um, what we were focused on was the interchangeable sunglasses. So in, in mountain biking and cycling in general, the idea of being able to, to swap your lenses out quickly and easily and have those in a package, um, it was available. But the brands that was available in it was generally a hundred to 150 or $200 or more. Um, [00:08:16]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, and it feels like a lot of times you would buy the glass and you'd have to buy the lens separately, so it wasn't just $150, it was $210. All [00:08:23]Joe Earley: even the brand I was selling at the time, you know, I'm going to them going, Hey guys, just give me a product that comes with the lenses and retails at even a hundred. And I could sell quite a few of these. And so our idea was to come to the market with three lenses and be able to retail it at $50 or $60. And um, you know, we talked to other reps and other territories and consistently feedback was, no, they don't see something like this. Or, yeah, there's something there, but it's. It's just not very nice. Um, and meanwhile, there was a, a large e-commerce retailer that a lot of you guys knew in the day and, and still exists now, but performance bike was based in my territory. So they had a big mail order component and they had about a hundred stores and they were doing it. They had a sunglass that had three lenses and a case, and it retail for about 50 bucks. We can do it. It's gotta be there somewhere. So, um, In 2003, we, we said, okay, let's do it ourselves. 2002, we made the decision. We went over and, and found some sourcing and, um, we brought I think a total of 23 SKUs, 24 SKUs to market that first year. Um, [00:09:26]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I was gonna ask, how did you, I mean that there's a, it's a big step between here and there, which is like, okay, we have this idea, we think a price point is viable at 50, $79, whatever it was at the time. But actually sourcing glasses, you're an enthusiast, your wife's an enthusiast, you understand the market. It was not gonna be feasible for you to put out, you know, super low quality glass. And have any vision for OSI surviving is that, how did you get to creating a product that met your own expectations as well as the price [00:09:58]Joe Earley: Yeah. So, um, you know, we made a trip. I made a trip. She ran everything here. Um, went to a huge optical show over in, uh, in Hong Kong actually, and met with, had to be 300 different suppliers, factories there. And, uh, had the concept of what we wanted. Had kind of the, the three lens, had some examples of what we were looking for and just literally went and met with every single one of them there over a, a four day, uh, trade show. And we found. Three, maybe four, that we thought could do the quality and had the products. And we started with, you know, open mold products. So we said, Hey, we're looking for products that already exist like this. And, um, we found those. We, we quickly even starting in, you know, late in year one, we started developing our own. Molds in our own products, our own designs, but we started with things we negotiated and exclusive for North America with them and said, Hey, don't sell these to other people. We like this design. And we brought, uh, a collection to market from there. Um, we've been very, very fortunate in that, um, you know, one of those partners that we started with in 2003, I. Is a partner we still work with today. So we've got longstanding relationships. All of our products are, are made in Taiwan, um, not in mainland China, but, uh, well all with the exception of one. We do have one product, uh, our aviator that's made there 'cause there's no metal production of sunglasses generally in Taiwan. Um, but uh, yeah, we, we were really fortunate to partner with somebody there and then started quickly trying to develop our, some proprietary products thereafter. But, uh, we were fortunate that we had the sales apparatus with the. The sales agency that we kind of knew how to sell things. And Elizabeth, my wife, was running, uh, an east coast warehouse for one of our companies. Um, so she already knew the pick pack shipping operation side of things. So we, all we needed was the product fortunately, um, to kind of [00:11:46]Craig Dalton (host): Question for you on that, on that product, Joe, I always think about sort of the lenses and the quality of lenses being important for cycling, right? We all wanna feel confident that if a rock hits us, it's not gonna break, et cetera. I. Was that were the lens quality already there with these manufacturers? They understood like they need a high impact lens. [00:12:06]Joe Earley: Yeah, I mean, uh, the, the, the idea of a polycarbonate lens, uh, which is what we source on most of the products we do, we offer shatterproof product lenses on all of them. Some of our photochromics use a little bit different material. Um, 'cause of the technologies involved, but they're all shatterproof. You know, you can hit 'em with a hammer, they won't break. That technology was there. Um, and you'd be shocked at, you know, the higher end brands, high price brands that are being made in, in those facilities already. Um, so we, we knew from, hey, what they're already making, they can make the quality we're looking for. [00:12:39]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:12:40]Joe Earley: we were, we were fortunate in that standpoint. We did learn a lot about lenses 'cause. You know, for instance, our first polarized products that we offered, we were using a, what's called a tack lens, which is not something we were recommending recycling at the time. Um, we moved outta that just in year two, just because it's, it doesn't have as much impact protection as like what we have with all the products now, but the lens quality and the impact protection from like the interchangeable sets, um, it was there. [00:13:06]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, and this is really rounding out the OSI story for me. 'cause knowing that you guys were within the industry and were independent reps and. Intended on going into the bike, local bike shops from the get go is super interesting. So I, I presume sort of in those first years you were able to kind of tap into obviously your, the local southeast region where you already had a lot of personal connections, but it also sounds like you had connections in other regions to sign up other independent reps to start putting the product [00:13:35]Joe Earley: know, it's a, it is a relationship business in cycling. Um, you know, I, I both, we sold it in the southeast with our agency, but then we were able to contact, we knew who the good sales reps were. I. In all the other territories. Um, now it's a, as a pioneering brand that didn't have sales, that was a challenge to get, you know, good reps on board. But we were really blessed, um, and that we were having really good success with it. Here we got a, I think we only started with six territories, um, to begin with. Um, so call it six or eight total reps, you know. Now on the cycling side of things, we probably have at least 35 ish. In that space. So we started small with that, but we went from zero to 500 retailers in the very first year. Um, just word of mouth, the retailers, word of mouth with the, the reps, you know, when we place the product in the retail stores, they started checking it right away and at a very high turn, generally in the same, you know, retail location, we're gonna sell seven or eight times as fast as their $150 sunglasses that they carry. Um, so we were very fortunate in that. And so we went from 500 dealers to a thousand and now, In the US we have about 3,500 retailers, um, doors that carry the product, and that's in the cycling space, which we're the number one market share. We have about 74% of the market, um, in cycling specialty stores. So seven and a half, 10 pair of sunglasses they sell. S um, but we're, you know, a top brand in the running space, uh, in outdoor we're carried in every R e I location out there. Uh, we actually have a really strong business, um, in the golf, golf arena. Um, we saw that as an adjacency, and so we're primarily focused on sport products. Um, but you know, cycling was kind of where we started and where still our largest kind of single market in the US is today. But we have distribution now in about. 35 other countries. Um, and almost all of those are cycling, um, specific types of distributors. [00:15:28]Craig Dalton (host): Got it. How, how, when did you sort of, uh, extend beyond the initial cycling industry and kind of go into running and multisport? [00:15:38]Joe Earley: um, we, we actually, so running was, was adjacent, but we really didn't, we didn't know it. Um, we had, uh, a lot, quite a few of our, a couple of our reps were doing Sego in the day and Sego was a strong cycling brand, but they had a very strong running apparel brand. And, um, almost by accident we had some reps who were doing Sego already. And so they're calling on run stores and so they just started pitching to FCI to them and they started picking 'em up and they were selling 'em, and they were like, we didn't even realize that. I think M P D came to us maybe back in, which is a, used to be, it's a. Retail reporting software, a company that, that collects retail data. It was probably 2006 or 2007. We were the number one market share in running specialty stores, and we didn't even know it. Um, our market share was actually stronger than it was in in Pike. Uh, it was just a smaller market. There's not as many, uh, Running specialty doors, is there our cycling doors? Um, so it really started even, you know, in late 2003, we had some adjacency. We were picking it up, and then kind of 2004, 2005, we realized, hey, this is a great other area. Same thing for golf. We saw that as an, as an easy adjacency. So we started knocking on those doors with other independent reps. So we knew the independent rep world. We knew how, how they operate, and we set up our business to make it. Easy for them to, to write orders and to get business and uh, and to make commissions. And so that, that worked very, very well for us building our brand, you know, through, through the retail network. [00:17:10]Craig Dalton (host): And Joe, how have you guys thought about product development over the years? I mean, obviously like sunglasses have been very trendy and there's been sort of an evolution. Maybe it comes from taste makers, maybe it's artificially inserted into our tastes from bigger brands with bigger marketing budgets. But I'm just curious kinda how you see product development and putting the best product possible out there. [00:17:33]Joe Earley: Yeah, I mean, uh, our, we have three legs to the company stool that we talk about, and number one is product. We, we feel like we have to bring out, you know, very high quality. Technical bells and whistles, sunglasses that, um, people can use for, you know, these crazy sports that they go out and do. You know, um, cycling, gravel cycling is some of these events. It's brutal on the product. So we feel like that's like the first leg of the stool. And it's certainly you see evolution, um, with the product. But we're looking for what are technical benefits that we can bring to make the experience for the end consumer better. And so it started, like the first feature was coming in with multiple sets of lenses, right? It came with multiple sets of lenses, came with a case retail around $60. Um, you know, over time we found other features that we thought, Hey, this, this really makes it better. We were always noticing it with, with all the cycling helmets, the retention systems started really. Changing and they were bigger or smaller. And so then your eyewear stems would interact with 'em either in a negative or a positive way. So we started adding adjustability to the ear pads so that you could adjust them to get 'em to be the right fit for you. And then we noticed, okay, the same thing's true for noses. Your nose, my nose, you know, your wife's all different. So if you can adjust the nose pad, that makes it. A better experience for them when they're doing these, these crazy events. Um, and then we noticing, you know, like putting ventilation in lenses. Um, we've, we've gone so far now as we have like a utility patent on our, what we use on the rail system now, but started with our podium design. It's a, it's a shield rems design that you can interchange the lenses easily on. And so just looking for these innovations that would make it easier for the end consumer and make their experience better. Um, photochromic lenses, you and I were talking about beforehand, that's been a. A huge part of our business, you know, these lenses darken and lighten automatically in about 12 seconds. They'll go from light to dark. And so when you're talking about, you know, the gravel events with different, um, you know, lighting conditions start first thing in the morning. You want something lighter. But then you, when you're at the peak of the day and you're out on Mount Tam, like you're talking about the blazing sun, you want it to be to darken up, but you don't wanna have to pull over and swap out the lenses. So there's been a lot of technical innovations that kind of happened over the years. There is some fashion to it, Craig, for sure. Um, you know, it's, it's gotta look cool and it's gotta look cool to the end consumer and what everybody considers cool. It does change over time. Um, you know, we've definitely seen that right now on the sports side of things. You know, the big shield is, Is absolutely where the market is at. They won't, consumers looking for something that's flatter, uh, which actually for the end consumer optically is a little bit better. Uh, these flat lenses, um, give a distinct look, which is why most of the consumers are buying them, but the fact that they have less curve actually makes their optics a little bit better too. Um, so, you know, they, and then we have another whole side of our business that's more what I would consider sport lifestyle products. Um, in 2018, we launched a product called Swank, which is, um, It's, it's a lifestyle looking glass, but it's made with the same frame and lens materials that we make the, you know, $80 interchangeables with. So you can go, you know, do a, a gravel race in it or you can go hang out in the coffee shop with it. And that's been one huge change in, uh, in the business in the last, you know, six years. That's now 60% of the volume. [00:20:55]Craig Dalton (host): And do you find that some of the, the cycling shops are picking up those more casual [00:20:59]Joe Earley: Yeah, they almost all do both. They almost all do both. In fact, up until, um, Actually still in units. The swank model that we sell is the number one selling sunglass in the cycling industry. Um, and funny story, we were talking about the vegan cyclist before, uh, we started recording Tyler rides with both. He'll ride our rail, which is our top of the line kind of sport piece, and then he'll wear our Swank xl and he's doing these crazy long events in what I consider something to be way more casual. It's got him fully protected, but he loves the way it looks. He loves the way it fits. And you know, that's 80% of the battle You wanna have something that's comfortable. Comfortable for you that, that you're comfortable with when you're out there doing these things? [00:21:38]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do you think about product development, we talk about cycling specifically. Do you think about mountain bikers differently than you do gravel riders or road riders, or do they all kinda end up merging [00:21:50]Joe Earley: I, you know, I think there's a lot of crossover. 'cause I mean, how many of us are there that we do? We do it all right. I mean, I started mountain biking, then I got into road cycling, and then I cycl across and then I do gravel. I used the same pair for all of them. Um, personally, there are some nuances, you know, in the mountain biking space, um, there is a little bit of preference to have something that's more full frame. Generally where that comes from is, um, you know, there's some, some mindset that, hey, if I crash, if it's got a frame on the bottom, that's not gonna cut me. I'm telling you from personal experience and from seeing tons of pictures over the years, if you crash hard enough, it won't matter whether you've got a full frame or you don't have a frame. You've got that, that possibility out there. Um, but I think, you know, most people these days are doing multiple disciplines. You know, when you're gravel cycling, you're p you're mountain biking, a lot of times you're doing single track, you're doing fire roads, you're doing road for certain parts of it. So those lines are so blurred now that I think the product tends to be quite a bit blurred as well. It used to be much more niche like, oh, if it's an open lens glass, that's for roadies. And then if it's a full frame, that's for mountain bikers. I don't see as much of that anymore. There's still some of it, but it's not nearly as much now. [00:23:02]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. I have to say when I first started riding the rail, my, my initial reaction was, this thing is so light. Can it possibly withstand? I mean, it's not like I go around crashing my face into things, but it was just this reaction I had. Like, is this gonna be durable enough? And, gosh, I've been wearing that glass for maybe at least a month now. And fortunately, knock on wood, I haven't crashed it. But I think I've, I've, I no longer think about durability as an issue [00:23:31]Joe Earley: Yeah, I mean we, we literally, when we started it, it's like we kind of talked about it's. People say, well, if it's, if it's $80 and it's got all the features of this $250 sunglass, well what's wrong with it? That's the the impression. We would go to trade shows with a hammer and we literally would put lenses on the ground and we would start hammering on the trade show floor just so people could see that, Hey, this is gonna protect you. Um, you know, why? How can we do it? Why Y is, you know, Y is brand X $250 if you try to put three lenses with it and we're able to sell them for $80 or even have. High quality products like swank that retail all the way down to $25. Well, it's a couple things. One, we're based in Watkinsville, Georgia. None of y'all have heard from it because it's the middle of nowhere almost. You know, we're 10 miles outside of Athens. We're not based in Southern California, so our cost of doing business is much lower. Um, number two, our marketing budget is tiny, right? I mean, you don't see full page ads with all the top Pro, pro tour riders. We don't pay. Those, those guys, we just don't, we don't have the budget for that. We're trying to give the consumer that high quality product at a value. And the way we do it is we've just got a lot smaller budgets overall, and we don't make nearly the margin. It's the high-end sunglass manufacturers do. Um, so that's kind of the, the secret in the sauce. Um, You know, it's, it's, we control our overhead for things, and we don't pay for, you know, crazy, crazy spends. We don't have the money to do that, so we're delivering the consumer a great product and they buy lots of it. [00:25:03]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think you know that in the absence of this conversation, I would've assumed you were only a direct consumer brand and that's how you were able to achieve the, the price points that you are. So the fact that you're also affording a margin to your specialty bicycle retailer and running shops is quite impressive and maybe more illustrative of. What the cost of production actually is and what the cost of all those massive marketing budgets are for some of the bigger sung companies. [00:25:31]Joe Earley: I mean, it's a, it's a highly competitive space. I mean, most people know there is one company out there that's $25 billion in sales, and they really, mostly 99.9% of their business is on the ultra high end. And you know, from their standpoint, they have a great business. If they can sell it for $300, then they should. If someone will pay for it, then great. Uh, I've just never been wired that way. I was not that guy. I just can't get my mind around it because we've all had that high-end brand and we drop 'em a week after we buy 'em. And the scratches right in your field of vision and you've got a sick feeling in your stomach for this crazy expensive purchase you made that suddenly is now. That you've gotta go and spend more money to fix. Um, so that's just never been, never been our motto. It's all about having that value for the end consumer. [00:26:21]Craig Dalton (host): Got it. And Joe, if you were to recommend something in your lineup, and I know there's a lot of personal preference that goes into this, but if you were to recommend one set of glasses for a gravel cyclist out of your lineup, what would it be and why? I. [00:26:34]Joe Earley: Um, for me it would be the rail series. Um, so we have a standard rail and we have a rail XC and a rail race. They're all the same frame. I. Um, I like it 'cause it's completely rimless. Um, I like the completely rimless glass because you don't have to worry about fogging as much. So even if you're in a single track section down here in Georgia where it's super humid, if you're moving a little bit, it's gonna bring some airflow and you have nothing impeding your field of vision. You don't have a frame anywhere that you really notice in the activity. So, um, and I would recommend looking at one of what we call photo tech. Which is a photochromic option. We've got, um, both the Clarion Red and the Clarion Blue Photo Tech. What is that? These are, these are glasses that have a slight mirror to them. So, um, they're very light colored when they're not activated. But then when you're in full sun, you know, they're gonna give you a lot of shade. I have blue eyes, so I need that when I'm out there in full sun. And when you ride here in Georgia, mostly riding in full sun. Um, so I would definitely look at the rail series. That is, that's our bestselling, you know, Performance, um, sport piece in the line today. [00:27:38]Craig Dalton (host): That's the one I'm using. I'm using the, the blue one and it's the first time I, I put it on in my garage. It was really funny 'cause it's like, put it on, I looked in a mirror just to kind of see the color and then I walked outside. And to your point, like it changes pretty. Rapidly, um, really cool technology and, and to your point, like for an off-road cyclist, that versatility of the, the lenses changing themselves is super helpful. 'cause you don't have to change when you go in the woods, it's gonna automatically kind of just change that, that mirror element or the darkness that you're experiencing looking through 'em. [00:28:10]Joe Earley: Yeah, I mean it's, it is a technology that we started offering in 2005, um, and it's come. A tremendous way now, I mean these mirrored versions that we have now, those are just available in the last three seasons, um, that we just started offering those. That's not something you really see a lot of out there. Um, and we've definitely seen a lot of, a lot of end consumers on the cycling side of things love these. Um, 'cause one look, we all wanna, we think we look cool, um, with the helmet and the Lycra on and all that. Um, but definitely having that mirror out there, it. It looks cool too. So it, it definitely gives that, that, uh, the fashion factor that we all are looking for. [00:28:50]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. And the, the, the rail in the non photochromatic lenses, you've got, it sounds like you've got several op uh, options there as well. What are those, what do those look like? Are those clear lenses? Dark [00:29:01]Joe Earley: those are gonna come with three lenses. The lenses that come in the frame will be a shaded lens, you know, probably mirrored, um, more for full sun conditions. They'll come with what we call an AC red, all conditions red. That's a good like mid light conditions. If you're unsure what you're gonna be doing, go with the AC red. And then we always put a clear lens in the package. Um, you know, still a lot of people that like to ride at dusk or at night. And so this gives you a great night riding option there. All those, you can swap 'em out in just a couple of minutes. Um, Not even a couple of minutes inside of, you know, a minute. Once you're, once you're comfortable with 'em, they're very easy to swap those lenses in and out, in and out. And we do find people that, you know, they'll buy a photochromic option and then they wanna buy an extra lens to have, you know, you can get all those on our website. We offer custom, you know, products. So you can go on our custom, you know, portal on the web website and build up a rail with whatever frame color you want, whatever lens color you want, whatever ear, padd color you want, so you can fully customize it. [00:29:55]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. Since I got the Photochromatic one, it didn't have multiple lenses, so I'm curious how, how do you actually. Take the lens out 'cause it's a frameless design. So for the listener, you've got the, the, the ear earpieces going directly into the lens itself. [00:30:11]Joe Earley: Yeah, we've [00:30:12]Craig Dalton (host): Joe's gonna hold up a pair of glasses. [00:30:13]Joe Earley: on the side. I've got the glasses in front of me here. Um, but this, this mechanism on the side here, it basically, there's a little cam here. This, this has a little flex into the backside of the frame. This is a patent we have. Um, and so it allows this frame to flex and then just pull off. So it's, it's almost like a little bottle opener almost. And then when you put it back in, you just put it in the groove there and you just snap it on. It's just rotating it up and rotating it down. So it's, it's actually very, very simple. The biggest thing is, Craig, don't be scared. You know, these, these glasses. And I do this, uh, I do this for people all the time too. Let me grab a, um, I'll grab a sample. Ah, shoot, I don't have a good sample here to do it with, but our glasses with the, the frame material we use. You can twist 'em 180 degrees like this, so you're not gonna break them. And like I said, you can hit 'em with a hammer and they won't break. So don't be scared. Um, but we do have videos [00:31:05]Craig Dalton (host): let my nine year old, I can, I can let my nine year old manhandle him. [00:31:08]Joe Earley: I'm telling you, nine year olds and dogs are our two nesses. Um, that in my wife's purse, uh, if I wanna torture, test a pair of sunglasses, I just don't tell her and I put 'em in her purse and leave them there for a month. If they come out and they're in any type of shape to wear after that, then I know that they're gonna be a good product. [00:31:25]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I like that. I like that. Joe, this was awesome. I appreciate getting the backstory. Like I said, I've been familiar with the brand for so many years and I'm, I'm thrilled to actually own a pair now and get to use them and really can personally vouch for the quality and just super excited to hear that entrepreneurial journey and I wish you guys all the best. [00:31:43]Joe Earley: thank you so much for having us, Craig, and, um, you know, if we can help you anytime in the future, feel free. Free to give us a shout.